20 Episode results for "First Round"

20VC: The Roblox Memo: First Round's Chris Fralic on The 17 Year Journey to Build a $41BN Market Cap Company, Why It Is Way Harder To Increase Ownership Across Rounds Today & What Happens Post SPACMania

The Twenty Minute VC

36:43 min | 5 months ago

20VC: The Roblox Memo: First Round's Chris Fralic on The 17 Year Journey to Build a $41BN Market Cap Company, Why It Is Way Harder To Increase Ownership Across Rounds Today & What Happens Post SPACMania

"This is twenty. And my favorite show. The month the memo. This is the show where we unpack. The investing rationale associated with the investment made in specific breakout company. All aligns the core investment memo written at the time of the investment. Today we're focusing on none other than road blocks and first round capitals early investment in the company joining me for the discussion. The man that made it happen. Chris ache now board partner at first round capital at first round chris's lead deals in the likes of roadblocks room dot com hotel. Tonight rack room and many more incredible companies but prior to the world of venture chris vp of business development and social book marking and tagging company. Delicious through your acquisition. He was also one early. Employees at half dot com and after the acquisition spent six years with ebay and a variety of business development media and entertainment rolls. Before we move into the show state question. 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Why the buzz pilot tastes carve you startups finances from bookkeeping tasks to on credits and more when you work with that new pad with finance iceberg. Who's a fulltime employees. In san francisco in nashville. Who really knows your business from the ground. Up pilots team watson quick boost in that suite with software superpower to help. Check the work. They've grown with over a thousand startup sites scaled or lattice open. And no one can help you scale. Can if you want to let pilot folks on your financials so you can focus on growing your business. Goes u- pilot dot com forward slash chooser visa and get twenty percents off the first six months of core bookkeeping plans. That's pilot dot com forward slash zero vc. I'm thrilled ahead into our latest. The memo episode with chris froehlich board partner at first round capital level. You have now arrived at your destination. Chris this is such a joy to do. My what i mean. Last time we met it was at the barclay inside the and cova zoom. But i'm sorry with stacey thank you so much for joining me. Think you for having me here. A pleasure now. I do want to dive straight in and say we're going to unpack the original investment. Really fee withrow blocks away back in two thousand and seven so i want to start with some history with some story. How did you meet the team. Why was the meeting. Can you pay that picture for me. Sure so we were introduced in the fall of two thousand and seven. The first thing i did given it. It was a game was. I asked my son to take a look at it with me. So he and. I started playing. I was introduced to the ceo. David basuki november two thousand seven and for the next two months we dug into the business and my partners took a look with me. We got interested. We got close but sadly or at least initially for us. We decided not to invest in january of two thousand eight. A lot of it was based on the price. Your listeners might laugh but ten million dollar valuation outrageous was way out our normal range back then and the game really looked raw. It was not anywhere near what it looks like today. Very block easy broke a lot hard to get going with it and we passed but luckily did it. In such a way that i kept a relationship with dave very glad that my son max kept playing almost every day and i would watch them play with him and it gave me a good reason to stay in touch with dave and to keep seeing him on trips to california and getting updated on the business and luckily about six months later we were able to make our first small investment and then later on did a larger investment said basically the takeaways. I need to have children to determine the great you do i would. I would highly recommend that especially if they're really into gaming and you're fortunate enough to be introduced to future awesome company. I love that. I love the i do think because this right here is the perversion of council that we have today the time in between as you said they had no i and then he ended up writing the check unit. Six eight months later today with so much capital market. You often just don't have the luxury of being able to have that time to build a relationship. How do you think about relationship building today with such compression of around timelines. I think some things are different than now. There was more time to get to know someone back. Then then you do now particularly an covid world where things are done in days or weeks over zoom and we did miss the first round of roadblocks and came in a little bit later in between the next round that we ultimately lead. And when i joined the board but i think something that remains true as you can keep a relationship through a no even though we passed it wasn't like that was the one opportunity for a transaction and either worked or didn't and then if it didn't we never spoke again we kept in touch. It was barely speed. Bump like dave acted like it didn't really matter that much that we passed. Initially i was glad and lucky that we had enough relationship to keep in conversation and i think that might surprise him a little bit and caused him to open up the komo even more and started showing me his business plan which i remember distinctly was on version eighty seven of a company that was less than two years old and the numbers were just going up into the right and my son kept on playing so we had this unique unfair advantage to know what was going on both from financial perspective of potential investor but also from a player who super passionate and kept the relationship with dave was how we manage to get our foot in the door with verse. Smaller initial investment can say you mentioned the element of the price being that for you and a challenge to get over you know. I'm really struggling right now when we look at pricing environment today. How do you determine when to pay up versus stay disciplined. And how do you think about your in relationships price. I think we might have been fortunate back in those days to have made a really poor. Investment decision missed one of our biggest of all time with twitter when we were all early users. We had an opportunity to invest first round and didn't primarily really only because the price was twenty million dollars. I remember the conversation where we said it just doesn't fit. Our fund model. Didn't feel right. The time and clearly was a big mistrust but it informed us to get hung up on price for what we think can be breakout. Companies and so one example where we learned in invested at even higher price was with square jack dorsey than new company and another example would be roadblocks we invested at about an eleven million dollar valuation when we first came in and then we led around and put in about three million dollars at what was around a forty million dollar valuation which was very high but we could see the traction in the revenue and that again and turns out to be one of the best investments that we ever made. I wasn't massive nowadays. And if you're going to break the rules the rules on. I do want to diamond some lessons because with these kind of incredible journeys. There are several licensed one can take from them and one that you said is the slow bake versus the fast bake in. How could i not die of all night out on them. What did you mean by the slow bait versus. The fast bake in contact with aussie here here. Well i think part of it when you look back at a vintage of companies or a fund. It's not always obvious who. The winners are out of the gate. It very clearly for us. In the case of first capital two when we made our last investment in that i distinctly remember looking with our partners looking back and saying are there any really great companies in this fund and it turns out that fund had uber and square and road blocks in it and we didn't know it at the time now square. An uber became what they're known for today. Much more quickly and people been excited about them. You know. Evaluations have reflected that for a long time. Roablocks was almost under the radar for probably ten certainly nine or of the thirteen years. We've been involved. You could very much call that a slow bake. It was quietly but still consistently growing but always under the radar and i think one of the lessons is. We've learned that some of these companies. Just take a longer time to bake into percolate and become what can i. That question is when you look at that port in your life not sure but as you said some of the most generational transforming companies that we've had even lost two decades. How do you think about reserves management given the fact that you have to proactively forecast ahead of time when you don't actually know how the portfolio is going to bake in itself. How do you think about reserves management with that in mind he. I think it's changed over time and fortunately for us in our thinking around roadblocks was we were making relatively small bats are initial investment was five hundred k. road blocks or so and that was probably on the high end of an average investment and we were starting to think about our best companies and opportunities. Where could we put more capital work. How could we deploy more into the best companies and buy up our ownership. And that's what we were able to do. at roadblocks. With that extra three million dollars we were able to almost triple our ownership percentage and then in subsequent rounds where we didn't participate were diluted down but still in the end managed to have over five percent of the company at their direct listing. I think what's shifted over time at first round in another funds is recognizing you may not have that opportunity to buy up down the road so you better get your ownership position upfront. And so average time to make a decision drops average check. Size evaluation has gone up dramatically. I think that's sort of the game. That's being played more is buying more ownership upfront with bigger. Checks is something that i have to. I see a ton of you. Still say spray and praying than say. They can double down on that winners. I'm just actually. I didn't have that luxury in stays proliferated malkin. Because you'll big multi-stage pads comment in preempt round so much false. And they have done before. Do you agree with me. And saying she instant ninety nine sending the case is not possible. The buyout post initial. I think it's way harder for everything you mentioned. And there's so much more capital that's around so many more firms again. I think roadblocks was unique in being under the radar company for so long whereas anything that's got traction visibility we'll have swarms of investors circling them and potentially preempting or not making it easy. Or you're you're gonna have to fight to maintain your pro rata much less build your position. You mentioned the slow baker roadblocks that my thinking there is totally see on the slay. How do you advise founders then when it is potentially slow bait profile company but they still need to raise funding in generate that hype with nbc mockus. How does a slow bait company do that. Efficiently g thinking were there any lessons. From roadblocks its subsequent fundraising. Maybe suggest it is a unique story. But they're certainly lessons to be learned from it. I think dave bazooka is one of the greatest founders and leaders of our generation. Certainly that i've ever personally work with from product vision from seeing that this could be the platform for co experience in the metaverse and millions are eventually hundreds of millions or even billions of people playing and communicating and building together. He's had that vision from day. One and really never wavered from it even in the face of growth being relatively slow at some times or certainly linear and investors. Just not paying attention. There were a lot of times when the company was missing some numbers when the company couldn't find hires that would stick in last win. Financing's didn't come together. And dave never wavered once and even to the point when there were acquisition offer for the company and he knew always knew that it could be bigger and better on its own and he never wavered and to be honest. I didn't share that conviction all the time. I didn't think it could be as big as it is now. But i think he always did. I love that can honest. When you look at the bumps said before about gonna bumps in the any company has every company has bombed. What do you think was the most significant bump where you are shit. Josh allen team this i would say as the company was going public. I was going back and looking through some notes of my takeaways from board meetings and just general updates and there were periods of big mrs on the financial side. A key hires that weren't working out as hoped needed to be replaced in particular. We went out for a fundraise and couldn't get anybody interested so that was a tough period but again it never seemed overly phase dave and he had complete conviction on what roadblocks could be in spite of all those facts and never stopped and then the numbers caught up and the reality caught up in the world started to get a sense of what roadblocks really really was kind of numbers catching up. It makes me think of another lesson you've said before it. She's like versus substance and he'll pollen joshua's spoken about the hype versus substance ratio. I love a good ratio to help me out here. What is the ratio. And how do you think the relationship between hype buses substance you think in the current startup and tech world that hype rules the day whether it's social media tech news or a fundraising or a famous investor like there's a lot of forces that drive the perception of a lot of companies super high if you look at the ratio of that to their actual substance like what's happening in the business then. Roadblocks is a fairly great example of a company that had almost no hype an incredible amount of substance. And if you knew what the numbers were and where they were going you knew what a business this was but no one else knew it like our remember. Really being on the lookout for validation of this right. Like i remember when the first child of a friend at their house knew what roadblocks wasn't heard that i was involved and almost ran across the room to say. Do you know builder man. That's debut zukis username on the site. I remember in two thousand seventeen. When mary meeker put out our internet trends report which she does every year and roablock showed up on it with a growth chart and it had hit fifty million monthly active users and i quickly re tweeted that out. I was so excited that mary meeker found roadblocks in her chart and it was just getting a little bit of hype out in front of what was amazing substance and growth and joshua said like it's a great example of how they were kind of upside down on the substance to hype ratio cannot get tough on which is like when you have companies like ray blocks. We fundamentally change the game in so many ways. How do you prevent pulse successes or failures influence future decision making in terms of lightning david platforms now every meeting and being paved with gold. Because you see how good it can be with roadblocks. How do you prevent that infiltration. Yeah i think you can use it positively and you need to be careful to not have it impacting negatively. Like so. i'll give you on the negative side. I work with josh. At half dot com. We were acquired by ebay so spent a lot of time in e commerce person-to-person e commerce and really felt like. I knew it very well and remember. We had the opportunity to look at oetzi and i was almost dismissive righteous thought of as this little niche of handmade goods or something and i think i was jaded. I mean i thought. I knew so much from ebay. It kind of turned me off to the whole category of what might take them on. But i would say on the positive side we're fortunate to be investors in a company called rec room which started out as a pure virtual reality play but with avatars and shared worlds and building experiences. Together i could see early on. It had a lot of similarities to roadblocks they have played that out and even faster level and had some hype along with a lot of substance to your point about preemptive rounds sukhoi an index just led around that valued that wants little company requiem at over a billion dollars so i would say being enrolled. Blocks was helpful for me to see what this next generation. Vr originally version could be and they're kind of so far living up to that. So that's what. I've learned amazing on the record. But you mentioned preemptive rounds and i have to ask his consistency happening within twenty four which is always great. Always happens within apple c- to rise of violence source so coleman these days like question to you is advised founders on whether it's taken the preemptive around and engage plus she went to st jude netting. Keep your head down on products and focus. What does that look like. I think it's shifted. Generally advices is to take the money when it's offered if it's serious interest it's smart to spend a little bit of time to see if it's real and if it's something you want to consider i think the world has changed pretty dramatically with how many dollars or around in how many funds so i think companies can be overly distracted by it but in general if the market is offering you capital at an attractive price. It's generally a good idea to engage with it. Tell me this is a really hard one. But bill gotti sat on the shea that his biggest challenge is that bumming proliferating of capital that we have today in the over supply of capital. T thing that the oversupply of tactical stay as helped you and flc more will hurt and it helps the entire of huge amounts to fall on into companies and hurt in just four hundred homes. Now i would probably say it's a little bit of both like at one point. We were as a fulltime institutional seed stage fund back. When josh started it probably an oath. Four of five any when i joined in around. Oh six there were maybe one or two handfuls of firms that focused on that it was a very short list and a pretty unique positioning in the market and so we were able to see most every deal that would fit our profile in were known in that marketplace so the challenges now there's hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of firms that would fit that profile and billions and billions of dollars. Good side of it is that follow on. Capitol is much more available other big changes just at the public markets are open. Roadblocks is one great example. That bill gurley is extremely excited to see that they went out in a direct listing versus an ipo process. He's been railing against mis-priced. Ipo's and dollars left on the table and conflicts of interest in that process forever. I think roadblocks showed what can go right in that process if we're able to do. Direct listing has a lot of benefits if the company doesn't need the cash and can directly that works out well but just the public markets being open to the level that they are today is a phenomenon. Just have a hard time getting my head used to because most of my investing career you could have said the ipo market were closed or for maybe the mid to later part of my career. The narrative was that private markets were overvaluing companies relative to the public markets. And that's not true now either it's really a whole new world. I think a net. It's good. I think it'll go too far. The spac invasion of the specs. I think some of that will end badly. It's too much too quick. I believe but in general more public companies more capital more funds is good for us and more importantly for our companies and tons of misbehavior. To why do you think too much too soon. I agree with you. i'm just entry. Take i think what we have had in. General is a dearth of public companies. Hurdles have been too high. I think i read that. We were down to or were down to half of the number of companies. We had a or two earlier. That's in the us. The rest of the world hasn't slowed down so just on a relative basis. It's not where you want to be. So it's good that we're finding ways to get more public companies but it almost feels like unnaturally fast. If you look at the number of companies that would have on their own found their way to be public ready. That might be one number but that issues being forced by the number of backs that are out there with a ticking clock that have to find companies to merge with. It just feels like a race that won't end were the quality will by definition be diminishing over time companies. That aren't really ready to go. Public will be dragged out into public. And we'll see how that works but it just feels like there's a little too much too soon maybe that we went from one guardrail of not enough companies and going to the other guardrail of too many. And we'll come back in the middle somewhere. Yeah i mean. I do show on those beliefs dave and the team. I have one final question and other sorts of liquidity is secondary sales. And i think it was seminal shawl that said on the show. Stage funds will have to navigate secondary resales of that positions. Much more effective. The becoming is. How do you think about secondary sales. I always say take a third off the table and then ride. The upside on. Two-thirds was your perspective. Yeah i think that's probably one of the hardest decisions as an investor with twenty twenty hindsight. You could look at what you might have done for. The best outcome and i think different firms have different takes a lot of different partners inside of funds have different perspectives on that. But if you look at our investments in two most notable returns with uber and with roadblocks we had taken some capital off the table along the way at various points which made sense and drove great returns relative to that investment and yet what was left was still enough to return multiples of the fund or even the entire firm so in that case we were able to do both. I have a theory that funds that she become more successful healthier opponent is become because you lose the fear of downside protection. And you've had success. You know what we can take this risk and be also you know what ride the upside. I didn't need to do cash back. That makes intuitive sense to me that there's a tendency to let more ride to play it for the upside. Even just in terms of fund management to make sure that you're calling and deploying all the capital on a fund versus eighty percent or. Not taking so. I think you absolutely see that. I do want to move today into the team. Because you had an incredible povey with you board seat for many years and when i too many people before the show about david. Evelyn describes him as persistent. When you look at him. How is he involved in developed as a ceo. In your mind over the what is it. Fourteen years now. I think the development and even transformation of dave basuki as a ceo. They'll be books written on it. It's the most profound leveling up. I've ever seen firsthand. Like i think they'll be pictures of jeff bezos when he was skinny and a young and had hair and then he's boxed up and walking around sun valley like before and after that would be a metaphor in my mind. For how not how. Dave looks how he's developed personally. How he's been able to lead a team that is absolutely world class and even his decision which is his personal decision to become a public company. There were a few years of board members politely. Nicely asking when dave thought he might be ready to be a public company and it was always off in the future and then there was one board meeting where the bit had slept and dave had changed his mind and decided he wanted to be a public company and a public company. Ceo and off to the races and it's been incredible to see him do it. He's built himself up personally through coaching. He's become expert on interviewing and hiring when there's an open role he will interview a dozen of the world's best people at that role in order to find the one that is the right and best fit for a roadblock seeing it as he's building out developing the board of directors. It's incredible to watch. Cannot there in flash points in his change sometimes when a fundraise fools apart and it just doesn't come together and come back more hungry more humble more whatever that is there any fashion points at something significant happened then. He changed as a result. I'm not sure about in his personal development. He always had the vision never changed his conviction or his vision of what it could be the reality of the product and the rest of the world. I think changed to come into alignment with his vision in towns of the mechanism of you'll poverty. We mentioned you your role on the board at the on. Also think about your own solid board membership today and then. We'll touch on roadblocks in particular like to be engaged and partnered and supporting the ceo. As i possibly can. I've been aboard observer as much as board member over many of the companies that i've worked with over fifteen years one of the times that i kind of took pride in in not making a distinction between observing and being a board member was one of our companies was acquired by adobe when we were needing to work on the paperwork. Neither the ceo. Nor i could remember if i was actually a board member or just an observer and i was an observer so i didn't have to sign anything but it just showed that we were acting as if i was the full board member that the all i try and play and i've worked in startups and in tech companies and pitched dc's as part of the first twenty years in business. So i have that perspective as an operator. I'm a sales and business development guy at part and so i bring that perspective and then as an investor at first round for the last fifteen years i deployed about one hundred million dollars in about seventy five companies got to work with dozens and dozens of great founders in kind of shift into that role. So that's what i bring to. The table can us as you style changed. And what i mean by not as a lot of young. Bc's listen who are adopting boise for the first time when you think about advising them or how you've grown and changed as a board member. What would you advise them. And i guess what would you advise me in terms of being the bathroom member i can be. I think you need to be authentic to what you can bring to the table. And what level of engagement you expect to have an. I would suggest more listening less talking as board members. If i look at all the board members i've seen in action the number that are really adding value really. Trusted partners of the ceo are in a small percentage. I think probably the. Maybe the bulk are mostly harmless or sometimes helpful and they write checks and there's some that are just destructive. They're taking meetings in wrong directions or giving bad advice or won't shut up. Like i don't destruct value. Maybe you can add value. And maybe you can be somewhere in the middle. And i've seen some new investors or first time board members try and be too helpful or to push their point of view too hard. I was on a nonprofit board that was involved with peter drucker the famous management guru it was based on his teachings. I wasn't involved meetings with him. But before i got there he was and they would say peter would just be in the board meeting for an hour and a half and not say one word but then would come in with his one question at the end. That would encapsulate everything and drive home what they needed to do. And that's what i would hope to be finding and it's the best but here's the most memorable member from the positive side. They really were incredible. Parliaments the us with maybe outside the first family. I'll combine this one with if you think about someone who is involved in roadblocks that people don't know so much is anthony. Lee of altos ventures. If you wanna talk to me about roadblocks you really wanna talk to him about it because he led that first round that we didn't get involved in he's been in the company since before we were and he has remained on the board to this day and when roadblocks went public althouse owned about twenty four percent of the company. And you don't know who he is or you might not know who he is. He is the most under the radar. You talk about the substance to hype ratio and again. He's just been the absolute most consistent voice of reason understanding the product. I would say that he would go into roablocks ever other week but he was in. The company sleeves rolled up in between board meetings for thirteen years. So you gotta get him on your show. I do want to move into my favorite. She's a quickfire. Chris is asia will stay when you give me your media. So what was the pre mortem air when he was challenged the partnership. It's not going to walk. Because i think we were concerned about things like lego universe. Which was rumored to be launching and might be a competitor. We were thinking about things like club penguin back in the day but generally i think the biggest fear was they would be always under the radar always second player to later minecraft or maybe later fortnight and not be able to break out and above it and they certainly were able to if you cheese one thing above anything else and it be team drives asks sas what would it be when the inflection point started to happen there was a lot of different opinions of what was really driving. It might take away would be. It was a thousand small things that they kept tweaking and working on consistently for years and years. I would also point to. In my opinion one big thing that changed the thinking and drove them to new platforms when they got accepted to be on the xbox platform in order to do that they couldn't just open up all the millions of games that they have on roadblocks. That can look like youtube in terms of almost too much. Choice and microsoft. Xbox forced them to have a very limited small number of games that were on that version of road blocks. I think it was six games. And i believe that forced them to think about quality over quantity really focus on how good the games were the first on boarding experience. It worked extremely well on xbox. And i think that informed how important it was to have that same kind of experience getting the best games front and center on the rest of the platform as well. You mentioned anthony in terms of unsung here on the board intended of unsung hair within the right blocks team where he would you say that would be. What did they do behind the scenes. I'd probably think of to in the first phase keith. Lucas was at the company for ten years. He did everything from being in charge of product. He was in charge of engineering. Co. at one point and again he was there for about ten years in the earlier period and when the company announced the direct listing. I called him up and said keith. Roadblocks would be roadblocks without you. And i believe that the other named mentioned who's currently the chief business officer is craig d'amato formerly at qvc and goes all the way back to excite at home. He's been there about four years and kind of runs everything on the business side and those that know him just think he's fantastic and he is but he's not as widely known as you might be and i think the growth and where robots is today kind of started around when he joined and it's not an accident he's just an incredible business person. I always liked out the unsung heroes. And then the final one as the favorite story fee from walking with right of way back from two thousand seven. What's on the east towel. Nice about again. Yes so the first one was with max in two thousand eleven when we went to the very first. Roadblocks user conference was at the exploratorium. I think it's called in san francisco and it was the first chance to see hundreds of roadblocks ins in person meeting. Talking and keynote said it was amazing to see it come to life in person but close with one of the most special experiences was when the company listed a couple of weeks ago. I live in philadelphia. I drove up to the new york stock exchange that morning and new. Dave was going to be arriving around seven in the morning and i got their law. Early had a cup of coffee sitting there just looking up. At the roadblocks sign on the new york stock exchange with the little fearless girl statue right in front of me and it was quiet and kind of surreal and then dave just pulled up in a black suv with his wife. And i got to give them a high five and wave and a good luck and thanks and then he walked in the interview and rang the bell and it was In covert not everybody can get into the exchange but it was surreal like almost dreamlike moment to watch him take the company public after thirteen years working with them. Incredible special story. I wanna see 'em so grateful to you for sharing it with meat. Stay cresa loved a mess and say thank you so much for joining me again. Michelle thank you her. I really do just love doing the memory chris. Thank you so much for what you did to me that one so special such an exciting time ahead for roadblocks as a public company. If you'd like to see more from us you can of course on the twenty minute. Vc dot com. Have a before we leave each day question. Why can you not invest in sports. 'cause like he can stocks with all to you can also increasing the transparency in the quincy of alternative asset surrounding you to invest from as little as seven dollars to a million dollars on their exchange with old. He also save on fees. There's only a one point five percent transaction fee and they also have this incredible real time valuation engine. And so you can see what your is worth in real time that and so much more check them out at old dot com gaza. Only a lt dot com. Then speaking of having superpowers to your financials you have to check out revolut business. 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20VC: First Round's Josh Kopelman on Why Price Is Both An Art and A Science, Why Ownership Must Be Built on First Check and The Negative Consequences of Attribution in Venture

The Twenty Minute VC

41:23 min | 2 years ago

20VC: First Round's Josh Kopelman on Why Price Is Both An Art and A Science, Why Ownership Must Be Built on First Check and The Negative Consequences of Attribution in Venture

"You are listening to the twenty minute BBC with me, how stabbings at H stabbings nineteen Ninety-six with tubes on Instagram, and some of you might know that when I started the show the four years ago now I wrote down the names of five people that I most wanted to have on the show Pete offense number out felt extremely all into have had the chance to have all in the past. And today is another name from that list. An episode that makes me realize just how much I love what I do. And I could not be more thrilled to welcome. The incredible Josh Koppelman to the show. Stay now Josh's found and partner at first round one of the world's leading seed funds with a portfolio, including the lice of this out. Uber will be Parker. Flatiron health square hotel tonight goat and more incredible companies as for Josh he founded first round in two thousand and four to reinvent seed stage investing since he's invested in over two hundred startups and been ranked fourth in Forbes Midas list and named one of the top ten angel investors in the US by Newsweek magazine, Josh is also previously sat on the boards of flatiron health, clover health app, next and more. I do so on say huge. Thank you to the one four fin bonds of first round for the injured. Josh today. I really do surgery. She ate that Finn. But before we diamond the show with Josh today. You must check out advisable advisable gives you instant access to the world's best marketing freelances with over nine hundred skill sets from paid search to hub spot to linked in ads. They have top quality fully vetted, freon specialists ready to work for you in less than three days. 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Check them out today and pilot dot com forward slash to'serve, e c pilot dot com slash to'serve e c beaver quite enough for me. So now, I'm very. Owner to welcome. Josh Koppelman found an partner first round. You have now arrived at your destination. Josh it really is such a pleasure to have you on the show. Having had so many wonderful things from ruled Hayes Bill trench it Haiti Bonna, and of course, the wonderful, Mr. Finn bond say thank you so much for joining me stay, Josh, thanks for having me not to what I wanna get to stay with them. How did you make your way into the wonderful world of venture? Josh, I'm what was the original founding story of us drowned? Sure. So I wasn't sure I wanted to be venture capitalist. I came at first round light came out of company, which is I saw market opportunity before I ram. I'd started and exited three companies the first company in ninety one to five million dollars to get the first product ship. The second company in ninety eight to two and a half million dollars to its first product ship and the third company to five hundred seven hundred and fifty thousand so in the course of my own career. There was an order of magnitude drop in the cost to get to first product ship about to grow, but to at least just gonna product attention customer during that same period of time the average venture. Tripled in size, and the average initial investment tripled in size. So when you look at a VC seeking three X increase in capital, inefficiency, and attendance, increasing capital efficiency. That's thirty x gap. And I was angel investing during this time, and sort of said, you know, there seems to be a real opportunity to create a fund that could institutionalize angel and that led us to create first round capital co founded it with my partner Howard Morgan and our first fund was just a seven million dollar fund raised in two thousand and four primarily our capital with some friends, and it was a part time job. We check raising these little annual funds until we could figure out that you know, what we have something here. And it seemed like a contrarian idea at the time, and obviously now it's grown into something microbe institutional seed is a full on asset class before I knew it. I was running a fun. It started as a reaction to gap in the market like any good start. Does I do want to also Josh because I actually also fin the same question by all swim. Was that moment for you. When you really realise that investing was your life's work. He mentioned the element of serendipity that I've gotten from the game. Was there a moment way you realize that this was really what you aborted to do. Yeah. I don't know if it's anyone specific moment. But I think what I've come to realize is as an operator you'd have to wear a hundred different hats. I meeting yelling PR next meeting is career paths next meetings product next meeting is engineer, and you just deal with so many things, and when I did a naked and honest assessment of my capabilities, I saw that of this hundred hats, maybe I'm average at sixty of them. I don't adding for mental value or I don't destroy you probably value subtracting at twenty to them and meet the add some marginal value add on twenty. And I think what I learned very quickly. When we were starting first round is that this is an opportunity that lets me oak on the twenty percent or I might have some marginal value. Add in the limited the eighty percent where I'm Al average to value, destroying, and I just seen magical to ability to craft a job where you could play to your strengths. And you didn't have to worry and spend time on the areas. We're maybe you didn't have a marginal contribution to make. I do have another question for you dive in and it was the elements kind of. Boom in Boston. It's the passion for me because very honestly, I've never lived through a boom in bus professional. You've lived through obviously, boom bust in the thousands more of an operation and then in two thousand and as is more of an invest, I'm really intrigued. How'd it got boom bust visited as he fee a factual mentality today g think so I think that it's probably made me the most cautious of investor is in the first round partnership, and that's not necessarily a good thing. Having seen the pain that companies went through that my friends went through that founders went through and the dot com bust. I'd had to consciously try to remember that we get paid to take risks not avoid risk. And it's one of the real strengths of having a partnership as I do in that by partners could be the ones continuing to pull me to take more risks. Yeah, I'm sedately going to have for that. But I do want to dive into the stage, and they showed little bit difference. Some other episodes as I said when I started the show, you a one of three names that I was always dying to have on the show. And so I'm really gonna. Issues. This episode came in your wisdom and advice for me personally. How does that? Sound sounds great? Okay. So I wanna still own an element that I wish struggle on and its price sensitivity. Seed investors, commonly suggested that price doesn't really matter. Pete offense and said never turn down and deal based on valuation. Harry, it's a mental Trump. How do you think about your own price cents to stay Jewish? I'd go back to some of our earliest investments and also some of our earliest mistakes, right? Like first round offer Twitter their first term sheet months before union square lead their round, we offered dropbox their first tear machine. And I'd say we lost both of those due to sticking to price. So it's clearly scarred. In me that there needs to be flexibility on price that said, it is a slippery slope. You look at a company and you say five pre seven pre ten fifteen pre the difference between five and fifteen. It's three x that by itself could take a fund from a nine x fun two three x fund from three x on jewel one. It's fun. So while I. Agree with cheater Fenton. I also agree with Jim Bryer who once told me that valuation is both art and science of the science is picking price and the ardor is knowing which five percent of the deals to invest in at any price. So I think I rounded myself we've fluctuated over time like after the dropbox on the Twitter thing, we weren't we became very price insensitive. I think now we found a real middle ground where we kind of understand that trailer that price will be the only reason to lose an investment opportunity, but we also have to have some discipline. If we spire to produce top your returns those cases where maybe you didn't have the flies this he so early on kind of thinking on price. If you the ones where you may be win the deals, and they've turned out very, well, why you did flexible prices that wasn't that comes to mind is kind of a subsequent reasoning behind that willingness to flex on price. Sure. So if Twitter is the painful example, I'd say square is the counterpoint to that. Right. So. We offered Twitter at term sheet of five million pre money valuation. We were an investor in Odio prior companies. So I think I was user Twitter user, number two hundred and seventy five we were right there. We offered five Fred came in at twenty a few months later, and to make it even more painful called me and said, you know, we're doing around at twenty and I I know I didn't take your terms you can five, but if you wanna put money in on this round, you can and I didn't do it. We just didn't do it. So he's about to expensive at a time. We didn't know all we're doing our first or second year of business. And at the time, we'd never invested company greater than ten million pre. So he said, you know, this is this is four x higher that our term sheet, and this is to x higher than our all time high. Thanks, but no, thanks. I had that Email like take up on my computer, monitor and it was very painful, we learned something. So when Jack was stopping square and we met with him. But he said, well, you know, if you thought Twitter was expensive, this is going to be even more expensive in his first round. Was that a forty pre and we learned our lesson. And we were fortunate to be the second largest investor behind closely in that first round there. And so I think that was an example where we were willing to flex on price. I absolutely love that story. And I'd love to see that original Email kind of fussing session point. They being the first Jack. I'm always a big believer Jochen. The best investments are made. No once twice on reserve. How do you think about resolve allocation stay with us around? I'd love to hear that. So we learned a lot right art. I fund was a seven million dollar fund with three and a half million ten aside for initial investments three and a half million for Baal on fifty fifty split over time that shifted. There was a point in time where I think we had a quarter of our fun being reserved for initial investments of three quarters for follow. Today. We're putting a little more front where we're kind of back to where we started where pretty close to fifty fifty primarily because what we've seen is later stage valuations have increased our faster and are greater than seat stage valuations and as. Result where we sit down and say where do we want our blended capital, deployed? We wanna make sure that we're buying sufficient ownership up, but we are fairly large fund. What's interesting is on? We're testing out. A now is one hundred eighty million dollar fund. We're still investing at a super early stage. We're still investing at preceded at sea. And therefore, I know that there's going to be a lot of downstream rounds. And if you look at some of the companies that have gone public whether it's blue apron or on dick we did follow on maternally, which produce stronger returns. I mean gone super extinct for me. I'm always a big believer. That ownership spilt on fuss. Check and then often with some of the best investments they can get plugged into the tree so to speak by the much larger big players that would you agree that ownership can be built at a time. Then given those examples would do you think that really maybe like me that it's crucial spilled out ownership on us. Check argue that it's pretty important to build it on. I check I think that it just gets so expensive to accumulate ownership in the later rounds that. To some degree. I think you're ownership is your first check and later investments are more of a cash on cash return rather than a multiple Arar return. I absolutely agree with that in the investment decision making process. How does not like in on and does it differ. When looking at reserve says initial it does not as a partnership, we decide investments together. It's two thirds. We don't need unanimity. No partner has veto and pundit mentally. It's a pretty collaborative process. I would say that it's volved over the years world Taipei world driven world competitive adventures of business. We don't have short term milestones. So I'd say in the early days of our partnership. I think that the partners viewed it as a tournament to win. Right. You bring company into into a partner meaning and obviously you're excited by it. So your goal of the partner meetings to get it deal. Am I'd say specifically what Haley joined us. She really challenged us in frame the meeting differently. So that today companies come in and I bring. Company and either for an initial investment of all on investment the goal isn't to sort of win. A rather the goal is to find truth and a successful outcome. Could be when I learned something from my partners. And we joked invest in a company that I brought in and vice versa. So for us. It's really conversational, and it tends to be really focused on like what is the objective truth? What's knowable? And what's not, and what are the risks were taking? Absolutely. And I love that elements of the partnership discussion. It's something that we going to get on because I did speak to Haiti before the show. I do want to discuss another element that. I'd love your advice on spiel next you've signed I tried to estimate how many hours on board. My estimation has led to three thousand dollars without incredibly experience in mind. How seen yourself a vote as of Bullman Josh that been kind of fundamental transformations inisia- think? Yeah. I think that I see this with a lot of a relief board members. I probably in the very beginning. When I look at the boards. I was on. I was coming from being. An operator. So I was probably overly prescriptive in authoring feedback and trying to sort of way in on shoe, many things entrepreneurs are getting a ton of data. They're getting data from the market. They're going to get it from customers. They're getting data from press. They're getting data from implies they're getting data from competitors. They getting data from investors data for board members. And I think it's important to realize that as Gordon member you don't have the full context of what's going on in the business. So what comes to learn oftentimes is that the best board member isn't always the person that has all the right answer is or thinks they have all the right answers. But oftentimes the best board member is the person who asks the right questions by asking the questions, you are in a neighboring and empowering the person who has far more data than you do the founder the management team to make a better decision. And I think that's been a meaningful shift in my to boards. Probably just house with with experiencing humility, and realizing that my job isn't to have the answers. My job is to ask the questions. I also think it's really important to focus oftentimes if you get aboard Deccan advance. Again, you have the opportunity to review it and plan. I'm like come into a chew our board meeting with one or two specific areas that I might want to ask questions on or investigated. I find that the more you just fuse you're questioning the less impact you have in any one area. Absolutely. I achy had you'll skills in kind of zooming in on not pivotal area from Finn. He said, it's one of your Grace's skills. I'm interested from the money house of sitting on boards. Are there any real moments that shine out, and she us maybe inflation movements annual career as a board member? Yeah. So I've had the good fortune of serving with many, great investors on boards, actually, one of the first boards. I sat on was a company called on debt capital. And that's where I met a VC name Matt Harris today, he's at Bain capital. What I really admire. Fired about Matt was his diplomacy is realization that like in a board meeting, especially around startups. There is a tendency to get passionate. There's a tendency to let emotions drive things and Matt was very good at framing the conversations in rational grounded, well articulated arguments that and they will everybody to save face and enable the people to optimize on making the right decisions. I'm gonna motion guy I tend to wear my heart on my sleeve so eating sort of Matt in that board meeting. I think has kind of had an impact on me early on to try to keep the emotions in check and realize that there are a bunch of people with a bunch of different opinions a bunch of different experiences coming from entrepreneur places, but they all share the same goal and a little diplomacy goes a long way in the board meeting. Now, this is just right loving the show because I use it for my own self improvement. But I have to ask I just gave my shoe tional seat was dried what? Would you advise me giving you a wealth of knowledge thing by tonight? I view what what would you advise me? But first and second board meeting, you should go juice should be listening for more than participating. I think it's important to context load to learn how an entrepreneur thinks about a problem. And so I find that my gauge moment cheeks in far Iran meetings, three four five center than beatings one into the other thing, I would do is I would spend time at the company and with the direct reports before the first word made it you don't want the board meeting to be sort of the only way you're collecting information. I think a board meeting is to concentrate point of discussion, but it shouldn't be the only opportunity just collecting formation about the company if you're only real direction without her and his or her team is in the board meeting. I think you're doing you're up the final element that I have to join the elements of time location. How do you spend your time across the pool? Thirty it's often the big question is it's you spend it with the winners the outperformance. Would you spend it with maybe the more struggling companies, maybe salvaging son's home? Dole is how do you think about that time allocation across the portfolio, so one of the things that I believe is that the first eighteen to twenty four months or a magical time companies will live it so much is getting bathed blood for product market fit. It's the discovery of go to market and distribution and pricing and branding and hiring and the cultures being thanked by. It's a magical time. And so one of the things that I've optimized for rather than trying to divide. My tell a company by company is I try to think of it about stage, we really, and I really try to focus my engagement on companies during that stage. So I tend to be far more pro-active during that first eighteen to twenty four months where I think we build up a skill set and account competency around those go to market muscle movements around the hunt for product market fit. And then we kinda shifted beef. A little more reactive what a company has gone on and raised the. Series and series B. And what's interesting is let's first eighteen to twenty four months. You don't know the winners are yet. And you don't know the strugglers are yet. There are going to be companies that get an early start that stall. And they're going to be companies that are struggling for the first eighteen months and then finally hit their group. So I think of it less in terms of progress per company, and instead think of it in terms of life stage of company and for us that first twenty four months is just the point of maximum impact and maximum leverage. I mean such a lesson in VC, I do want to move on to the call ship element, which we actually talked to him when you mentioned Haley because I chance to too many of your apartments before the show, and I spoke to thin ball, they explicitly and he said to me that VC has to be a pick of companies, but a found a has to pay to. And so he also g how do you think about the found on the pick to start with? So I've never had the time to write a book. But if I was going to write a book, it would be called the pick. There are a ton of books focused on March. Marketing there ton of books this hiring. There are very few books that are focused on the skill of pitching. And I believe that kicking is a skill. As of these seem, for example. I might spend fifty percent of my time helping companies after we've invest I might spend forty percent of my time sourcing network building top of funnel. And maybe when you sort of look at the amount of time, we spend in partner meetings diligence sort of doing the pickets ten percent of our time. But probably drives eighty plus percent of the return. I would argue that for entrepreneurs that tyrod show is even more exacerbated most founders spend less than five to ten weeks picking an idea, but they're gonna then spent five to ten years executing on that idea. And so if I had to give one critique of vowed IRS like the most common critique, I give I feel like they're rushing their pick. And it's not a muscle that they use often. So. So when I sit down and look like, we're the best papers I've worked with its founders like NAT Zack from invite medium flatiron, but they spent months on their pick. And so I think that the first two founders Joel set an arbitrary time when you set an arbitrary time you'd say all right? I'm going to spend this quarter, picking ideas. What tends to happen? Is you focus on sit reduction. You say I'm going to quickly build a set of ideas. And then I'm going to spend the next three months reducing them to reducing that set to hunting the one idea. And in most cases, the best pickers are people who are consistently focused on set expansion of don't feel the time pressure of an arbitrary deadline. So they're consistently reevaluating and consistently collecting data. And I also think the best pickers are people who are not afraid of asking Doug questions. They are continuously learning continuously interviewing people either field around the field. Customers prospects, and they're not afraid to change their mind. They don't get locked in or confirmation bias when they make a pit. I could write a whole book on this. And I got the pig dot com because one day I probably will. But I think when you sit down and say, you know, why do you many startups fail? I don't believe it. I believe that high degree of started were tally is baked Dina a pick and not on the execution. I mean, I'm sure you'll get many outreach from publishes post. This episode on the pick a cereal book coming out to us while we're on the pay. How do you think about kind of advising found his own picking the right investors for them for that, Johnny? I think that and it's an area where I think people are rushing that pick as well. Right now, an investor is oftentimes more than just capital in both good ways and bad ways. I've seen investors help founders try to create tremendous value. And I'm also seen investors destroy a tremendous amount devali. And I think that doubter should be self aware to know, what are they looking for in an. Wester? And how does it investors temperament work with them? How does it investors view on their role work with them? How does an investor credibility within their fun work with them? And so much of this comes from ace spending time together and be doing reference calls. It's amazing to me how few founders asked me for references. When I am asking them for references and the ability to do BC references, specifically all reference sheet of companies that didn't work out. It's never a straight line. This is a tough journey, and you can't fire your board member, you can't fire your investor. So I think it's critical to sort of understand. How does this invest your work? And how does the fun? We're great if you're raising money from a seat fund. You should know what percentage of talent is the seat fund follow on in the next route. Right. Like first round, we pretty much tell founders when you get the first round the second round comes free wheat. We'll take our pro rata and one hundred percent of outside leads. Second rounds. That's something we tell our founders. But when you should ask that of all seat investors of all investors. Try to understand the product you're picking because you're locked into it. I'm saying as you said about the importance of Daniel diligence that because I clearly onto halt before the show because I actually set one of you found this, and that's a flat sign before the show. And I also spoke to finna bow your relationship with not I promise, I'm not stalking. But they told me about your relationship and specific these suggests dial six one, but how do you describe your relationship with mass? And what she think makes it so so I've known that now for well over a decade. I met him when he was eighteen years old when he was a freshman at Penn and was blown away by his maturity as entrepreneurs Elon stinks. And by his entrepreneurial experiences at such a young age that he became first round. I inter and then the following summer when he he wanted to get experience in Silicon Valley, we helped to get a job at one of our companies, and then the following summer, we his company inviting media. As the first venture puts been fascinating about that relationship has been really the transformation. You know? I think I might have been one of NATs mentors and advisors early on. But it's now transition to the point where NAT has built a company too far larger than I've ever built a company he's managed jeans far larger than I've ever managed. He's had an exit with his exit are larger than I've ever had. It's so rewarding that I'll learning from him now. And as he's become an angel investor. We get to work together in that capacity as well. So what I love about the relationship. It's probably one of the most rewarding professional relationships I've ever had or maybe the students has become teacher. And it's a now armour a two way street. I mean, it's just incredible hit our relationship, and it goes without saying that not side of the many incredibly experiences. You guys have hot together. But I do want to switch to the table now. And before we move into quickfire round and quickly discussed the first round partnership. We mentioned Haley, we mentioned thin. I wanna start on. How do you think about an approach using palm is Josh? So I believe that when I look back at my career in venture. I would rather be known as a better picker of partners than picker companies because that's what enables adventure firm to scale grow and endure just beyond any one person and thrilled with the partners. We have today. I do think if there's one thing I would do differently early on. It would be to go a little further outside my network in the beginning. I was very focused on people who I'd worked with before. And no before so by co founder Howard, you know, he was my first angel investor fifteen years before we started I route my partner, Chris Froehlich was the first executive higher by company half dot com. And I know him for ten years and Phil transferred. I knew since he was in college. So and when we added Haley, we have known Haley for six years through our tyrants and urge FOX. So I think that enabled us to stay. Start with a high degree of trust a high degree of respect. I think it also locked us into a very close network and probably prevented us from attracting more diverse partnership as Finn as talked about technical debt and diversity debt. I think we're paying off some diversity debt. Now as a result, though. I mean, I really not going to prefer picker of politics and companies, and that's a very old one. But speaking of kind of venture partnerships in transforming over time as you mentioned that great venture funds, commonly suggested succeed in generational transition. Sequoia often comes to mind is kind of one of the best. I love to hear what you think he owned generational transition Jochem. What did you think is required for its be done, really successfully? So we started having conversations on this very early, and I've seen more great puns get killed and die or just great brands get damaged because of failed generational transition. And I think there are a few things that are needed. The first is open and honest con. Sation? So my co founder Howard wargin was older than I am. But we had transparent conversations about generational transition for several funds before he stepped back and as a partnership we get together often to discuss our personal goals as well as funds goals. So I think that we all know where we stand on our own personal journeys what we're solving for and it enables us to be really transparent about where we are on our journey at first round. And I think the second thing is a realisation that each is a new company it say clean cap table, and it should be divided based on each partners contributions to the current vote. I'm just seem to many firms get destroyed when the bowl partners try to hold onto too much 'economics of new funds to trying to sort of claim future credit for past actions. And so at first around we really view each new fund as a new cap table. So that there isn't that partner tasks from prior generations of partner. I wouldn't say conflict in it's still a work in progress. But as Howard is step back key kind of set up path for other partners at first round of follow. I think as long as people are transparent and as long as comics are aligned to value creation. It puts you in a good spot. Final album I have to touch on stage or she mentioned credit that how do you think about entrepreneurship today with first round? I go for a long time about attribution. So they're clearly two schools of thought I don't think there's any one right answer. But at first you're on we've chosen to play the venture game as a team. And what I've seen is that when people are obsessed over building their own track records, sometimes they optimize for the wrong thing. If there's a deal referral source that Bill and Finn, and I all know, the three of us shouldn't be working that same relationship to try to refer entrepreneurs to us one of us should. But obviously if you have attribution and a personal track record. They're thinking about that. Do you want to build a firm where the founder works with? The partner who's best seeded to help him or her. So when I first got introduced about Salzburg blue apron, while the company was in New York Finn was in New York at the time who was subscription converse. Finn was point on bridge. Fox's subscription congress company at the time and fiend had recently investigated a few companies in the food space. It made a ton of sense to transfer that company to thin can we had companies where one partner is brought a company into a partner meeting. And then during the meeting got backward-leaning got spooked by something. And then another partner said, no, we should do that deal. How do you get out your bution for that? It also creates challenges around follow on investments, if you have a pool of reserve dollars say you have one hundred million dollars in reserve. I think oftentimes people are solving for their own track record. They're gonna sit down to a is going to sit down and say, how do I get as big a portion of that hundred billion dollars for my companies? And I think that's the wrong thing they should be solving for how do I get as much of the hundred million dollars into the right companies? So look performance matters. You have to have conversations of intellectually on. Amongst your partnership about her formats, but we don't track individual partner IRR, individual partner, performance and mortar we share it with our LP's. Will they ask us during diligence? I'm so pleased to hear that we agree on that one. But I would've into a quickfire round now. So I say statement Jewish and then you give me your immediate. How does that sound looking forward to it? Okay. So I'm flying to new should I be reading on the flight thinking in bets by anti Duke. Any is a champion poker player. But the book talks about decision making a talks about recognizing biases and overcoming them. Specifically, I was really struck by what she talked about resulting which is how to many people evaluate the quality of outcomes rather than the quality of decisions, you know, oftentimes, you have to recognize that, hey, there's an objective truth, but there's also a level of uncertainty, and and it's important to try to categorize or quantify the level of uncertainty in a decision when you make. And so I became an any Duke fan boy of reading his book. I am a massive Omni g found way. It's an incredible book so on appearance, Josh even the most incredible of clients in sailing around so much of seats day. I think the same thing that motivated me when I started first round some deep suited deep planet, insecurity. And the the fact that I self actualized through my work. I think I'm the best job in the world. I get you here. Intensively mind-blowing ideas. I get to meet really, great founders. I great partners and a great team to work with alike. Also get to do that while working in a startup, right? Like inventing things. And whether it's our community our platform were first round will review or products or even the holiday video. I feel like I've designed a job that just works for me. And I can't see myself stopping for a long time almost saying gee, most frequently or by two white Jewish so loopholes that was coach of the Notre Dame football. To you. When all is said and done more is said than done and not just stuck with me since I was in high school like I just think there's often a massive hype to substance disparity, and I think that over time that people really build a reputation based on what they do rather than what they say. A love our. I haven't heard it before tell me we spoke about the joys designing career for you like you have done, but what's been the single. Biggest challenge may be in the skating of strand. I think that the way we've chosen to play the game is just sort of transition portfolio of independent companies to a community of connected companies people who are we believe that you could build better startups together, then you can separately. And I think that's been part of the biggest challenge, I wouldn't say that h been fun. But it was probably the hardest. Nuts untracked, right? Outta go. From just saying. Yeah, we have an online group. But yeah, we hold events and how to truly create. Oh hordes set. A peer group worth founders are giving taking and are paying forward at don't view it as a tax, but actually view it as a benefit and I remember back when like social apps refers coming out everyone said, oh, he just frequent sobriety. And you build a viral business like that doesn't work rally is really hard to engineer and build in and you have to build it in from scratch. And I think that community is not something that could be sprinkled in like, you really have to work hard, and has to be part of your DNA, and that's to be part of the implicit an expletive bargain that founders sign up for when they choose to work with you. And I think that's the biggest challenge. And I think things that most proud of in scaling, I stroke what you know. Now, josh. So you wish you'd learn at the beginning of the first round journey. I'm wrong. A lot of. Becher isn't amazing basically humbling business, you know, going back to any do great any Duke says in her book that the more you play poker the war. You realize how much you have to learn I look back now at the table banging where I banged the table with conviction for this or against this and I had such certainty, and it was very binary with time. I look back with using regret on so many of those binary decisions that in reality word binary in reality. There's there's a spectrum of probabilities in a spectrum of perspectives. And I think it's important not just to have a perspective and a point of view, but to have understanding of your confidence in that perspective. It should always be one hundred percent or zero percent. It's hunting to truly sort of understand that there's new us. And I wish I had known that earlier. And then final question. I'm so sad that as I said, I cool it the twenty minute VC but final question. Most recent publicly announced investment, Josh, I'm white you go so excited. So I'll probably talk about screen discovery. It was founded by Ben came in sweat got into no for several months while he was on his journey of the pick. And I what sold me was Ben and the way he ran his journey. The people the talked to every time I would get together with him. He'd be exploring different space exposed his intellectual curiosity, and the intellectual honesty that he was taking that he just wasn't locking in an idea. And I think he's like the as a big one, he's focusing on sort of combining modern day with longevity, and as I've gotten to know more about health investing. I think there's just a massive disruptive opportunity for a I during this time. It reminds me of sort of this is like quickfire. So I'll I'll end it there. I could go on for ten minutes on why I think AI healthcare is a transformationally disruptive. Type. Join Abe reminds you of all to intrigue leaving eventually that on the cliff, Honey. So when I started my first company in fanatics when I went to college nineteen nine the web browser wasn't invented. When I left the web browser was invented Netscape was getting started. So that was a magical time because this new platform was coming into existence. And what this new platform did is it enabled me, a rookie someone in college. You spend all of his time geeking out on the internet. And when if you looked at it twenty years so veteran in the software industry, I had that moment in time. I had just as much experience on the internet. As a veteran did and this was a magical time because the gap between veteran and rookie kind of got thrown out a lack normally the veteran has so much of an advantage. And this new platform kind of nullified a lot of that advantage. And I think we've seen that in other like reply for seeing it now in crypto, for example, where I'd argue that there are seniors in college of just more experience in crypto than driven of traders, Goldman Sachs, it's this dislocation and the experience curve that creates real. Opportunities for rookies. And when you sit down and look at life science and health care companies and the medicinal chemists send their traditional drug discovery flows. And all of those assets. I would argue that. Hey, I right now is such disruptive platform that it really is reducing not eliminating, but reducing the gap between veteran and rookie. And then came in bring discovery was just wasn't exceptional rookie that I wanted to bet on here. I mean, I'm so glad I pushed on that. Because that was phenomenal Jewish as I said before three names when I started doing this show, you absolutely one of them. It's been such a top fuel and say, thank you so much. Joining me stay thank you so much for having the it's been fabulous. And congrats on everything you've built I'm a big fan. I mean, what can I say I've got to stop myself from high prevents lacing hearing that Josh is a big fan. But I do say won't say she's saying he to Jewish forgiving his time say so pair on the show as I said, I've been the biggest of Mars of Josh Romania's his journey with Fuster. I'm really has been such an inspiration to me one of the few names on that list. So Houston, huge him. Again. You can find him on Twitter. Josh K. Likewise, a loved see behind the scenes on Instagram aunt h dubbing nineteen Ninety-six with two Bs. But before we leave each day companies linked travel pug bobble on pointy us, top free loans talent, get more dumb with less. Advisable helps them on many of the world's most time bishops companies by giving them instant access to the world's best mocks freelances with over nine hundred skills. That's from Facebook cans to moxie analytics to SEO, they have top quality fully vetted, free loan specialists, ready to work for you in less than three days. Go to advisable dot com slash twenty seats. Get started with a proven freed on the state. That's advisable dot com forward slash Tuesday. Or c I'm speaking of getting prepared that you. Thinking about life insurance in the if so you have to check out Laba, it's the small and easy way to get term life insurance online. A lot recognizes that is the twenty th century, and you shouldn't have to wait for weeks to get your life insurance in place. And that's why with ladder. There are no commissioned agents and no policy fees. You can be done in minutes. Even better coverage can stall today if you qualify, and you can council anytime is licensed and banned by trusted partners with billions in coverage and you can visit ladder. Stay atlanta. Life dot com to apply and get an instances on fully underwritten term life insurance and life insurance off your list today. Now allows the list it's time Stearns a business, and you didn't start a business financial statements. We'll make cash flow spreadsheets using pilot for bookkeeping gives you the freedom to focus on you'll business every month. You'll dedicate account manager will send you an here's detailed financial reports. And point it does accrue basis bookkeeping in QuickBooks online. So you'll never not into a she platform. Plus you what with the same person each? Month. So you can rely on them to become an expert in your business, and with pilot, you can say goodbye to exporting CSV files. An emailing attachments to a bookkeeper you can never get hold of get you'll companies books in order to stay and get your time back. Check them out today and pilot dot com forward slash to'serve, e c pilot dot com slash to'serve e c as always kennel find Hugh enough of cheating. I'm very excited to bring you Friday's episode with Joe flory found on the Visco.

Josh partner founder Twitter Mr. Finn bond Haley Haiti Atlanta Josh Koppelman account manager Pete freon BBC engineer Newsweek first round capital co
Office Hours With Chris Fralic Of First Round Capital

Techmeme Ride Home

41:04 min | 5 months ago

Office Hours With Chris Fralic Of First Round Capital

"Pay all as i said. This is a teaser for ride home plus content if you'd like to have immediate access to all right home plus bonus content. You know what to do. Go to tech dot super cast dot tech. You can do right inside your podcast app. And there's a link in the show notes enjoy welcome to another office hours episode of the tech name right home. I'm brian mccullough. Today we have a legend chris. Froehlich of first round capital was involved in funding such companies as ring hotel tonight where parker rec room. And as you're about to hear. But in addition to being a legend. As you'll hear chris just an all around good dude chris i i i love you. I like to think of you as a friend. So i always follow what you have to say on twitter and i sort of knew that you At first round where involved in 'em black but then you shared a great story about you your personal investment and history with roadblocks. So as much as you'd like to share tell us that story just go sure will. Thanks brian good to be here and appreciate all the work you've done And and glad you asked me to be on. So the roadblocks stories and interesting one from a couple perspectives. one is My son helped us land this deal or at least note node to be inform us to be interested in. This is a really good game. He wouldn't stop playing once. I asked him to check it out as we were considering the company and So that's been that's been an unfair advantage. I think i haven't had many years ago. So it started in two thousand seven when he was eight years old at right okay and And other unique element of it is that we even after first meeting day than taking i look at it for for a few reasons including it seemed a little expensive for us. At the time we decided to pass but Fortunately did it. In a way that didn't alienate debut. Sukey the ceo and because my son kept playing we kept in touch. I would go visit him on trips to california and and you give them feedback and update me on how. The business was progressing and We were fortunate to get another pass another in another opportunity to invest which we took in two thousand eight. And then we you know later later followed up in and And led a later investment round and got a meaningful ownership position and it was fantastic in almost surreal. Two weeks ago today to I you know in the time of covid going. Public isn't as public of event. Is it used to be. The zouqi was almost by himself. Ringing the bell the new york stock exchange. But it cool. I was i was able to drive up from philadelphia where i live in. Wait in front of the the new york. Stock exchange with The little stature the fearless girl right in front of me. The big roadblocks banner in front of the you know the institution of the new york stock exchange and then dave pulled up In order to go in and be on cnbc. and then ring the bell. And i was able to give them a give them away than in wish. Lock in say thanks. Just honor the thing that he is built and he and the team and then drove back home and watched him ring the bell. By the time. I got home but it was just a cool thing to see that and what they've turned into win for much of their their history was very slow growth extremely remarkably under the radar. And in most of the mo- for most of the years we were investors have mentioned it to another investor. i'd say roablocks. It's a roadblocks and they wouldn't know what it was and now now the typical response is more like oh yes. My daughter plays roadblocks. As i've been saying on the show it's it's one of the most buzzed about companies in recent times in terms of people that i talked to after having no bus right exactly right. Say maybe stripe people are more fomo about but the Two thousand eight that so long. That's like an entire different environment ago. And so real quick. The question i would have with this. Is i feel like and and maybe i'm wrong about this traditionally. Us vc's wouldn't work crazy about gaming as an investment space versus the chinese which is thrown all sorts of money into buying every gaming company. They can get their hands on number. Do you know why that is i. If i'm wrong about that please correct me. But if i'm right why do you think that's been. I think there's certainly more chinese investors that might be comfortable. I think and there there are a small number but growing number. I guess in the us that have had success. Ner focused on that on that category. I think from first round our perspective. It was a little bit more of like a traditional gaming. Companies tend to be organized like studios. You tend to think of games as hit or miss and and we've had some investments in that kind of a model and they have an all worked out that i think what we recognize was different about. Roadblocks was that it was It wasn't one game. It's multiple while full games from across from all kinds of categories in and their user generated like that was always right on very much part of what was different. And you know probably harder to pull off in terms of things that need to go right but once it does. It's it's less vulnerable to becoming. You know super cool then out of out of favor out of mind and again like back. Then you know the things that were in vote worth things like club. Penguin was still a thing. web kinz was a thing and and people were worried about in a we were thinking about. What's lego gonna do with lego universe. i mean heck. That's probably slightly even before minecraft right. Yeah it was. Before i remember distinctly first hearing about minecraft and checking it out and downloading the beta and being a little bit freaked out that they they looked and felt a lot like roadblocks in the kind of work on our radar and i think a even wrote kind of impassioned email to all the other other board members about in this thing coming out of nowhere that is capturing all the all the oxygen and in the end the excitement of what we kind of we kind of started it got it got way. Bigger than than roadblocks much quickly. It was equipped grows acquired for a couple of billion dollars for microsoft which was a huge amount of money anytime especially back then and then. It's been amazing to watch. Roadblocks climb up in exceed exceed minecraft. In a lotta usage numbers years ago and then just generally being more. Broadly briley understood and accepted Well amazing story and You know. I guess it's also a different era. I think that was my theory. That either being a a hits based business. That's not very scientific so a lot of people don't want to get into it but now that you can achieve such scale with it that maybe that can change for people's thinking or it was just. Everyone remembers bush melon and the first video game bus. You know so but all right before we get to the traditional questions. You're someone that. I have unique questions about. Which is if anyone's ever been to the first round offices in new york you go in and in the lobby. There's sort of a tech museum waiting for you unless you've changed it in recent years and you also i've discovered over the years have a bit of a tech museum in your house. So tell me about this is there. Is this just pack rat. is this just. I'm a collector. Do you have any sort of thesis for collecting tech gadgetry and things like that. Yeah i. I've collected in have gadgets from decades ago when i used to work in sell computers and brett bersin. Who's our partner in san francisco when we were rebuilding the san francisco office. He asked me. What can i pick out some items. That might be cool to have around the office. And and he sort of went on a hunting expedition on ebay and picked up a lot of cool things. And i had an extra at original apple portable that i that i gave them in. And and it's always remarkable in san francisco office. We did the same thing in new york and And it's the thing i love. I've i've now joined the computer history museum on the board there and the people who are into collecting. And you know it's it's it's cool to have the objects it's even more cold. I think other stories not the people that are behind him. But i i actually have a couple of things that i'm up to show you if you want some awesome. I was hoping. I didn't ask. But i was hoping i guess i was watching Your your gary office hours and it was really cool. Conversation about star trek star wars right right and get to the robert sire eventually. Yeah go up. He gave this awesome answer about why. It's you know hands down star trek in his mind. But i got this a little while ago. Just pretty pretty rare thing. You could see it so it's a. It's a cassette version of star wars. The game i'm assuming game For your apple to it loads. It's less than sixteen. K but on the flip side is star wars. So that's a that's a cool rare item Interesting medium. you don't always see other apple related but not apple things this is. Do you know what this ask i. Do you have any idea. Okay it's a. It's obviously a keypad input device. But for what i couldn't tell you. A win was left apple. He started a remote control. Company called core. It's basically a universal remote before that was even a concept it was designed by frog design and failed Rumor would say park. Could steve jobs got mad. The whole idea in the company But there aren't many of them. I never seen one live before. Someone pointed to me on ebay And i'll say one of the little things that. I don't think i've shown anywhere before dot. It's i'm guessing it's a motherboard. Or maybe it's old enough that that's not a motherboard. That's maybe just a chip. Well it's kind of close. It's kind of both it's it's the company that steve jobs and steve wozniak had a company to business before apple. It's right blue-box. that's it's the. It's the chipset that plugged into a little keypad in a to do for phone freaking blue boxing calling making free long distance calls while you hacked the phone system. They famously called the vatican and pretended to be henry kissinger and almost got the pope on the phone. They're this close. I'm told do you Do you have an apple one. i don't i have a replica. I've a replica of napa one. I'm assuming you have an apple. Two i do. Y- have an apple two signed by was and refused to be signed by jobs What would you say the most valuable. And maybe that's a tough one because by dollar figure out enough that matters but maybe what do you think is the most historically valuable thing The most unique thing might might be that that blue box. I just showed you. I'm told there were only a small number of the may two. Maybe as little as thirty or forty. And i don't know how many are still in existence but Some of that. I like some of the things that have that are kind of one of a kind There's a there's a startup company called mischief in brooklyn near you know guys now. They do a almost performance art with drops of unique products in one day. They created a laptop with the seven most deadly viruses ever created by man and kind of sealed it off in the sheba laptop and i have that signed by all the people that work in mischief. So that's that's one careful not to plug that when i was going to say i feel like i've heard about that as a like a a stunt. We did it. Yeah they did as a stunt All right let's let's try to squeeze in some of these typical questions if we can. Who's the best bossy ever had That's pretty easy for me. 'cause i've been lucky to work with josh compliment for For for a long time for for. I've known him for almost twenty five years and work with them since nineteen ninety nine so twenty twenty two years in in in a startup where i was working for him. As a head of business development half dot com and then the last fifteen years working for him in partnering with him at first round. And you know watching helping him build. Build this Crazy idea of seed sage Venture firm which were small number of folks doing it professionally back in two thousand five or even four when when howard got it going when i joined in rob hayes joined in six. If i'm getting years right It was there. Were still like one handful or two at the most of of firms that were professionally a fulltime focused on seed stage investing and now there's hundreds or thousands a whole different landscape but joshes is just lives up to his great reputation and in terms of seeing seeing the future and building it and bringing teams along with them. Help do it. I feel like we should reference the fact that there is a great Internet history. Podcast interview with chris that you can look up. That will tell you the whole half dot com story and and more of chris's entire career which we won't get into as much here but Seek it out. Is there a quality that the most successful people you've worked with over the years have had in common. I would give to or variation one. I think i think the worst quality that you avoid is any kind of hypocrisy. Or if you can't trust or believe what someone what someone says and so Integrity and doing what you say you're going to do. Those are those are super core values to me. I think i used to think of it. Just in terms of sales people skills and traded wanna see. But i think it's more broad is probably empathy would say the is the character or the trade that is super important to be able to have a sense of what you know a being in the other person's shoes working once you're in that head space to be able to work on a common solution together and the best salespeople business development people you know even leaders i generally tend to have that that quality and you don't hear it talked about that often. Is there something that you think. You're better at than anyone else in the world. I don't think. I don't know if there's anything maybe i'm no by the way no is a fair answer to that question. I i can't name one thing. I think i have a unique combination of things so You know i think like like one. Example is i come out of a business background in college and i was selling computers but i would tend to know more about how they worked than other people who were just selling computers like they could have been selling typewriters or anything else i i truly always loved the thing that i did and knew about it. And you know. So when i eventually started getting into startups capital i was doing deals and i was having success in house having like i kind of lived part of the startup like not being an actual founder. An entrepreneur myself. I joined i. I've joined three different companies. When when i was the fifth employees more or less and so that i have a good understanding what that's like and i think that's translated into how been able to work with With you know partner with the seventy five companies that i lead when i was actively investing over the course of my first round career and again what one thing that i don't know if it's if it's a record or its unique but you know a a investor has to see accompanying opportunity has to decide to invest and then has to win the deal right. That's sort of the third element of it and in my in my history of seventy five investments I only lost one was only one one investment the one company that we wanted to invest in that. I was point on where we put in a term sheet in. Wanna make an offering. They didn't accept it so I think i was pretty good at selling first round in myself and getting into virtually every deal that we wanted to get into which you know A lot a lot of investors get through the first two parts and then there's six term sheets on the table in five losers one winter guys for the better part of their lives are better have been fantasizing about the perfect wedding ring that cut the clarity carat color. You name it for us though. Not so much and jewelry stores clearly. No this right remember. I got my original wedding ring from k. mart. Because i wanted to avoid the whole jewelry store hassle wish. I had manley bands ten years ago. Manley bands offers your hand the freedom to look how you want it in just about every type of earthly material imaginable and even from space. I've got this cool silver bands now with like a pinkish gold tinge on the campaign edge to get started. All i had to do was order. 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Any room in your home or office. All while destroying viruses malware allergens and bacteria discreetly ineffectively to save up to a hundred and twenty dollars on an air purifier. Visit molecule dot com. That's m. l. e. e. k. u. l. e. dot com and at checkout enter tech. Meme that's molecule dot com enter code tech at checkout if you could pick one What would you say is the number one way. That you see founders. Screw up their starters. The the simplest is running out of money. That's kind of obvious one. Guess that's forced upon you. Maybe sometimes yeah it's less avi. I think what's more subtle about that is is companies. Tend to spend as much money as they raise and twenty four months more or less no matter how much they race. You know And that's that's that's controllable and that's definitely Definitely problematic I i would also say like generally it ends up being more self inflicted wounds that kill them than any direct competitor. I think i think in fact companies often spend too much time just focused on everything that's happening out in the marketplace and not and not enough on what they can control what they're doing Inside their own their own walls these three are. They seem like they're similar. But if you there's there's a subtle difference in these next three so the the first one would be What do you think is the most overrated are played out narrative in tech right now and narrative more than You know technology or trans or something. Specifically narratives This qualifies i think specs are interesting but way there's too much too fast like you just know there's gonna be some negative negative outcomes in bad behaviors incentivize even though just the concept of having more public companies is a good thing and yet i think we need to go from find a good medium between you know what we have half the number public companies that we did decades ago to having hundreds of spats role every few weeks or months hunting further targets. Like i think there should be some happy medium so that's one thought on the narrative. Yes backs generally so the number to The biggest story in tech right now by story. I mean the thing that a guy like me would write a book about twenty years now. You know it. It might be a theme. Just think of company that maybe up until very recently was under the under the radar is a is a company called rec room have been tracking them at all not really. I know of them but not Yesterday the wall street journal ran a story within that they faced they raised it a over a billion dollar valuation and they're kind of a The kind of road blocks in some ways but different but they started off in vr. And then they kind of expanded into other formats but is also very much user generated content Users make it all avatars interaction real time. I think it's just. It's just part of like with roadblocks with rec room. Just the whole theme of user generated content. Avatars metaverse in vr in your tablet on your pc really becoming a thing like. I think these aren't going to be you know just a few of the companies. I think it's i think it's an absolute seeing that. You're you know the in twenty years ready player. One might be very much what we're living in right like we listened mosque and just talking about. We're how fast technology changes. It's actually probably harder to make an argument that that's not where we are in twenty years than it is to say we're going to be well and and listeners to the show have been listening along as i've been trying to get deeper into vr. So like the whole matthew ball theory that the metaverse is finally upon us. Yeah i if it's really here that yes that's the book that someone will write twenty years. He said it very eloquently In his pc six months ago on the topic and but but clearly clearly there's a movement there and it's possible that's the that's the one that's also just you know it's interesting that ar vr was. I was really really focused on several years ago. And for a while thought i might have put too much energy into that and it wasn't really paying off but Always felt good about rec room. Was you know one investment that came out of that and could just see them. Accelerating and following and learning Faster and iterating faster than we watched roadblocks do and into that that you know in the now you're even seeing like a a A comeback in in vr. Like you know they call it the hype cycle and the trough of disillusionment. And we're kind of coming back and you know just on a trip with some friends. And i brought it little oculus quest with me and everybody was just blown away. They've never been in vr. Everybody loved it and You know again. I think it's gonna get it in the metaverse and avatars and all that will absolutely be a thing that we're all dealing with going forward Third of the three then is the most underrated or under reported story or theme intact. Right now the thing that even someone like me that tries to pay attention everyday wouldn't have on my radar. You might have stumped me with that. Because i think everything is so completely completely reported at the surface. Yeah do you have any Maybe you could like that needs more. That people are sleeping on that while. It's people are undervaluing that this could be celtic thing. So maybe it's more of a meta theme of like is is technology good or bad or if you watch social dilemma You know things of that. Nature tristan and others facebook backlash. It is is really interesting and for my whole career. I probably would have said that. I was like attack tech utopian. Right like wired magazine. I really ate it and drank it and believed that was for the vast majority all for good and i think in the reality lately. There's a lot of bad right. I don't know what the breakdown is. But it's not ninety ten. It might be more sixty forty good bad or i don't know what the right the right balance is but i guess my point is. Maybe it's underrated really important that we figure out how to make technology work for good and for our better instincts and making a smarter and better and it isn't right now again like if you if you would've asked me if we would have done this this this interview on vhs camcorder twenty five years ago and you would have told me that everyone is going to have a supercomputer in their pocket with all the world's information available for free. I probably would have thought we would have been smarter or better done more when the than what we turn out to have done to ourselves and what we really actually spend time dealing with it so i think might be. It's under reported in needed. We figure out how to point ourselves in positive directions with With all this cool technology we have speaking of the supercomputer in your pocket. Is there an app. That's on your your lock screen. That maybe i wouldn't have something that you can't some app that you would wanna proselytize and turn people on me see can give you a quick quick. Hit a couple sure. Yeah back. I love tech mean. I also love nozzle so it's a. It's a social version of that. So what are my folks. I follow reading or re tweet area and trading. So i i find out an interesting news source notion. It's one of our companies. But i kinda live on it. I keep everything in there And love that on the home screen. And then i love music. And there's a there's a high-end kind of i think it's a small niche but if you're really into high quality digital music and knowing everything about the artist you love. There's a there's an app and a service called rune r. o. n. that i bet you haven't heard of now. People have and it basically just organizes all your music you have in your network connects to the high end. Services like title is one of them and provides an overlay of incredible information. That lets you dive ridiculously deep into the rabbit holes of every artist every genre every album in everything about them that you ever wanted So that's you can get a free trial for fourteen days if you want to try it out. I'm excited to tell you about a new donation. Website called giving multiplier dot org using giving multiplier. You can donate to any charity you want and have your donation matched up to fifty percent giving multiplayer not only adds to your donations. It helps you to find the world's most effective charities ones that save more lives and do more good with everydollar. Here's how it works. You go to giving multiplier dot org slash tech nemeth. You pick any registered charity. I'm picking one of my favorites doctorswithoutborders next you pick from a list of super effective charities backed by research. I chose the against malaria foundation. Then you decide how much to give and then you use this. Little slider decide much to give to each charity. You can split it. you know. Fifty fifty or eighty twenty between the two. If you went to giving multiplier dot org slash tech name or you just enter the invite code name. An additional matching percentage is added to both donations up to fifty percent. Pretty cool right. Check it out at giving multiplayer dot org slash tech name or use the invite code tech name to get a higher matching rate up to fifty percent will come back to music because i want to end with that but Let me see. Let me squeeze one more in here. Which is what is your tool of choice for zen Be an exercise. Meditation drugs legal or otherwise. Like if you need if you need to go to your happy place or relax or something. What is it yet. It's probably a a workout or peleton or iran. It's something physical physical like that. And you know. And if it's iran I'm listening to music on on my headphones. So that's that's what would that's what we'll get there. Is there qua- which one should i do. I'll do what's the last book you read. I could take. I keep list in my notion. Hold on let me look at it. I'm gonna. I'm gonna probably go to the last good won. The afc rapidly the wise choice. The twenty six words that created the internet jeff. Cossack is his name incredibly well done. It deserves an entire book. It's a It's a an autobiography Of a law with signing the law. It's a it's a series of words and part of a section in part of a big law that that he makes again. You should should be right up your alley. I absolutely do an episode with him of what was intended what was written how it played out how it changed. And once you read that you realize that everybody who's got an opinion on what should happen to it. Now has not done enough homework like still. There will be no matter what you do now. That would be so many unintended consequences. Everybody's got an agenda. Facebook just came out today. With what their proposal would be to amend it infects it And i'm sure it benefits them and you know past presidents who wanted to just delete the whole thing completely and see what happens for their reasons and it's so important and Very subtle and You want to be really careful when you when you mess with it. So that the recommend that everybody. Okay rapid fire. I'll end with the music rapid fire so we can talk about that but Star trek versus star wars. For you i would say more star trek. Because i just i just grew up on. It can't get us philosophical with gary a the prime directive. Just william shatner and the guys in the red shirts you know that was. That was my thing as a kid as a kid. Growing up coke versus pepsi coke even even occasionally the coffee coke. It's a new thing in a can. It's twice as bad for you but you know what. I've never asked anyone this. Have you ever switch. Because i used to be a coke person and in the last couple years i've totally switched to pepsi. Now you ever back and forth now. Yeah i feel like. I feel like most people pick one and stick with iowa versus android easy ios. All the time. I get lost an android always have a backup phone just in case i can never figure it out him a very very all in on apple mac versus pc almac amac a game on a pc in vr and a pc. But i. But i am a mac person to versus biggie. You know what. I would probably have to say Biggie but i'm not. I'm not qualified enough to give you a big big reason behind either but this may be. Maybe you're for And i'll give you the the tri factor which is elvis versus beatles versus stones. I would go with stones. And i can say that. With authority in the sense of during pandemic. I bought the the the box. Vinyl sets of both the beatles and the stones and went through every every album and they're both amazing but the stones is just so so completely epic in and was of my time at least for part of it. And so i would. Elvis influenced them all. But i would. I would pick the stones and they're still kicking which is just like the amazing part can my answer to that is stones and the reason why this is a generational thing like you know. I'm i'm of that age of you know the beatles were just always on my house when i was a kid so it was in the air. Beatles weren't that. And i heard the early sixties stunt stuff but when i got to college realized at start to hear the stone stuff from the seventy s and it blew my hair back and like so. That's why stones is my answer for that. Because i just hadn't been exposed to it and it's amazing it holds it holds up so well. Yeah so speaking of music. You're do the clubhouse thing weekly yeah. Yeah so I've enjoyed playing around clubhouse and in a group of us do a weekly show room as they call it called record house. it's vinyl music. Music culture music that moves you and we pick up. We pick a topic every week and kind of dive deep on on it with ourselves as you know our our four five villas plus. We sometimes have guests and we always. We're playing music and giving samples. We have an ongoing playlist on spotify. Called the record house ongoing playlist. Wanna find it and you'll you know you're right there. You would find hundreds and hundreds of songs that we've picked our audiences picked over the last almost thirty shows that we've that we've done and it's just been it's been a fun thing. How we you know. None of us have ever met in person. We all met in clubhouse absolute one person I know a new person but otherwise it's all virtual and kind of self organizing and figure out how we come up with topics and know who's leading each week and coming up with calendars. It's it's really fun. Makes me appreciate what you do with than i have to say is it ashman or ashwin actually was the guy that helped me figure out how to get audio into and out of clubhouse so yes like we didn't know how to do that. I like joke was i was Dj fray or something. They called me. But i was literally holding up my iphone right. Yeah and then ashwin and figured it out from london and he now has a little system that plugs it tunes it right in and and we sound almost professional good but it's a fun and hope we hope you'll join us Thursday at six thirty pm. Yeah by the way. Like i was there last week but i think you were doing. Seventy three or seventy four. And it's that's not that's enough before my time that i can't. I feel like i would ride. My that was right on i love. I love that topic. Let me know if you ever do something. Like like. Nineteen ninety one all right. We have a lot to say about that. But hey chris you're the best Thank you so much thank you. Thanks for all you do for the internet techniques and everything.

apple chris new york manley brian mccullough Froehlich of first round capit Sukey zouqi san francisco brett bersin steve jobs rob hayes Manley ebay briley Ner manley bannon cnbc
Women Who Tech founder: Investors are leaving billions behind by not funding women-led startups

Yahoo Finance Presents

19:19 min | 2 years ago

Women Who Tech founder: Investors are leaving billions behind by not funding women-led startups

"Investors need to step up and be a lot more intentional about funding diverse startups. There is a huge amount of money being left on the table, billions and billions of dollars by not funding diverse startup. Welcome to the Yahoo. Finance presents podcast. I'm Alexis Christopher is the numbers are staggering just two point two percent of all investor dollars. Go to women led startups. My guest today is working to change that Alison Cape. Ann is CEO of women who tech a nonprofit that helps fund female lead startups in the tech space. She is also the co founder of the annual women's startup challenge, and I'm delighted to have Allison on the podcast with me today. Hi, alison. Hi, thank you for having me. I am intrigued by women start the women's startup challenge. It's in its fourth year. Is that right? Yes, it is. And talk to me about why you started this back in two thousand fifteen in what is it exactly? Sure. So we launched the women startup challenge in partnership with Craig Newmark, who's the founder of Craigslist and Craig Newmark for land, third Ps. And we have one goal which is to shake up a culture and a Konami. That's made it exceedingly difficult for women. Entrepreneurs to raise capital and I'll give you an example. So two years ago, a study came out that only two point two percent of women led startups were funded and a year later that number hasn't changed. So for the past two years, we've been talking about this problem about the lack of funding for diverse startups and the numbers aren't budging, and that really was the catalyst for starting the. Women's startup challenge. Why do you think that is why our female lead startups, having such a tough time getting seed money? So I think that there's a couple of issues here, the first one is that the gatekeepers of the investor world tend to be men and white men, and they tend to fund people in their network. So if the people in their network tend to be other men who look like them who think like them are launching products that were similar to them when they were having their own startups, that is, who they tend to fund. And so right now there is a only about eleven to thirteen percent of the investor world is comprised of women investors that number is growing every year, but it's not making a big dent in terms of the funding for women led startups, and frankly, I don't think it should be on women investors to come in and solve this problem. It's an investor. World problem and frankly, now investors need to step up and be a lot more intentional about funding diverse startups. There is a huge amount of money being left on the table, billions and billions of dollars by not funding diverse startups and having them not expand their pipeline. A have you found that when female lead startups go before some of these VC firms that they are asked different questions than they would if they were male founders of the company do you feel like they're treated differently in any way has that been your personal experience? I definitely think that they have been treated differently. And as a matter of fact, two years ago, we did a very large study on this issue, where we spoke with almost a thousand founders and women in tech that were both men and women. And about their experiences of raising funding. And we found out that for women founders who were harassed which was about forty percent. In the study, seventy seven percent, experienced, sexist harassment and out of that forty five percent experienced sexual harassment and then if we dug in even more into those numbers sixty five percent who experienced sexist harassment were propositions for sex in exchange for funding. What? Talking these numbers are crazy. Can we just repeat that for the listeners what, what is the overall number here? These are these are women who have who have startups and they're looking for funding. That's why we're the surveys coming from exactly. Okay. Tell us those numbers just one more time Alice, absolutely. So about forty percent of women founders experienced harassment. Having just general her. Okay. Okay. And then seventy seven percent of those women who experienced harassment identified it as a sexist harassment. Okay. I want to drill down a little bit. Yeah. What does her what constitutes harassment did? They get really specific in the survey. Did you give them some options? Exactly. So we gave them options. So once the forty percent so that they experienced harassment. Then we follow it up with questions. Great. What kind of harassment, did you experience was it sexist Trastin was that sexual harassment was it political harassment? Was it a racist harassment? So seventy seven percent said they experienced sexist harassment, forty five percent said that they experienced sexual harassment and sixty five percent who said that they were sexually harassed. They were propositioned for sex and exchange for funding. Wow. Okay. And I wonder if it's the, the setting in which is taking place. Sometimes these meetings are small, they're behind closed doors with, with, with people who are looking to invest, perhaps it's over a lunch or. Dinner and I don't know if if that's where they feel these, these sorts of behaviors can be cultivated. But nevertheless, is really really disturbing. You said that one of the types of harassment was sexist harassment. What does that look like? So sexist harassment can look like you as a woman or being treated, a lot differently than a man is in terms of raising money so you could be discounted, simply for, for being a woman, you could be asked about. Hey, I know that you are that you've launched this company and you are raising funding right now are you married? Are you planning on having children? In the future. What do you plan on having children? Like that would never be asked by a man. And in fact, in our survey when we actually asked men, if they had experienced sexist harassment. I think it was about ten percent of men that said that they experienced that counter that with the forty percent of women who said that they ex sorry seventy seven percent of the women who said that they experienced that. And. By the way, when we were talking about the sixty five percent who said that they were sexually harassed and were propositioned for funding in exchange zero percent of men said that, that happened to them well happen. It's a stark difference. I'm curious if you or someone else has surveyed the VC firms, you know, why don't they give more of their money to female lead startups? Is there a trust issue? I'm just curious. So the feedback that we have gotten from the VC firms and we've spoken with money as well as angel investors is they say that it's a pipeline issue that they don't have enough women led startups in their pipeline. And frankly, we do not think that that is true that they may have a personal pipeline issue. That is probably very real. But in terms of the overall sceptre, there is a growing amount of women led startups. And like I'll just give you an example where on year four of our women startup challenge. We have access to nearly three thousand women led startups that have applied to our women startup challenges, so it's really about intention, is it is the goal of an angel investor or VC firm to fund diverse startups. Then the startups are out there, but they have to be intentional. All about reaching them and recruiting them, working with groups like women who tack working with groups like women, two point, oh, working with investment firms like backstage capital. We all have access to this incredible network. And so it's up to the VC firms to just be a lot more intentional and like I said before they're leaving billions of dollars on the table by not funding these startups, you know that two point two percent number that we've been talking about a lot that just two point two percent of the VC money out. There is going to women led startups. Is that a fair number given that this really is an apples to apples? Right. Because there are a lot more just on its face male lead startups than there are female lead startups. Yep. That's definitely a great point. But it's not like there are three percents of startups that are women lead. It's actually about thirty percents of startups that are, are women leads. So those numbers are. Are are, are dismal. They're terrible. And there's no reason for it. Do the numbers get even worse dare I ask for for minorities? What if female lead startup? Absolutely. So I was just about to raise that. So for women of color, the statistics are far, more dismal. I if you can believe it so about. Zero point two percent of startup funding has gone to black women founders in the last couple of years. But if we take a look back, a store cly from, like two thousand seven to about two thousand seventeen that number is like point zero zero zero six percent. Wow. Yeah. There are certainly work to be done Allison, you know, the numbers show that the return on investment for a female lead tech company is higher than a company that has all male teams. Is this a survey that you conducted or or someone else there's been a few surveys out there? So the Kauffman foundation has done a lot of research on this, and they found that private technology companies led by women are much more capital, efficient achieving thirty five percent higher return on investment when venture backed twelve percent higher. Higher revenue than startups. Run by men in terms of first round capital when they looked at their own portfolio. They also found that women founded companies outperformed the male founded companies in their portfolio by sixty three percent. So when you say founded, meaning the female, okay, she founded the company is she then CEO has taken on a C, suite type role within the company. Lutely, absolutely. And so that is pretty impressive. Why do you think the ROI is so much higher for, for these women led companies? Because traditionally, you hear that women, especially when it comes to investing in their own personal lives take on less risk than men do. So I think that a lot of this boils down to there's a lot less resources financial resources for women led startups. And so you have no choice that if you are going to make it as a women led start up. You have no choice but to. Really work with the leanest resources and find a way to thrive and this proves that, that women lead startups are much more capital efficient because frankly they have to be. They have no choice if they're going to launch a start up and, and survive. Launched we've said that the women's startup challenge in two thousand fifteen during that time you funded companies in a number of different sectors, health sciences, fashion security, a lot of others. What have the results been so far how have things changed since you started? And how many of the companies that you helped fund are still in business? So that's a great question. I think one of the greatest assets of our program has been our impact showing that when you are intentional about working with women leads startups and providing resources and capital and opening up investor networks women. Let's start ups thrive so Eighty-one percent are still in business from our program eighty four percent have raised funding and about ninety percent have gone on to establish major partnerships with with corporations like snap, and Amazon, and Sony, and so many corporations. So it's, it's one of the, the few programs out there that is really showing the VC community that if you are intentional. About supporting women. Let's start ups, like I said through capital and resources, women. Let's start ups while thrive. That's a really impressive impressive list there of, of how the companies have gone on to really do. Well, because we know how difficult it is to be a startup male female, or otherwise. And a number of them do go under. So that's a great track record. You partnered with some big names Lincoln, Google for this startup challenge. What role do they play in all of this? So when we Perner with the companies like Google, and Lincoln, we typically co host these women's startup challenges as he said, kind of earlier in our conversation, one of the biggest priorities that we have four these women. Let's start ups is to showcase them to VC's and to the larger tech community and being able to partner with Lincoln Mozilla Microsoft, and all of these major tech companies is so key for us to open up those investor networks. And so that's why we've been very intentional about partnering with those companies. Tell me a little bit about your background Allison. And how you come you, you came to two women in tech and also start up the challenge where, where what industry did you come from? So I actually have run a digital agency called RAD campaign, and we incubate women who tack inside the agency we've been doing that. You know, since day one, because we really believe in solving this problem, and frankly, we just weren't seeing it done by many in the space. And so we made the choice that we were going to, to launch the women's startup challenge. And we were gonna put all of our agencies support behind it. And, and we haven't looked back where we're completely volunteer run, and I have to say as a volunteer run organization. Our numbers are incredibly impressive. So in a national poll you found that sixty percent of respondents agree that tech is not being leveraged to address America's top concern. Turns, and I guess one of them being health care what role should tech be taking in, in providing solutions. So it's been, you know, we definitely have seen a surge in tech companies taking on health attack. And I think one of the things that, that were that were still not finding is, is the, the, the, the key solutions to solving health care, not just in this country but around the world. And so we're very interested in working with startups and social enterprises that are tackling this problem, but particularly from a diverse lens, I think, oftentimes when we look at some of the, the bigger health tech startups, they tend to be run by men. And so I think it's if we're truly going to solve healthcare problem around the world that we need to bring diverse perspectives to the table to do that. Allison Cape in of women in tech. Thanks so much for joining us and continued success. Thank you so much for having me. Thanks for listening to the yacht who financed presents podcast. I'm Alexis Christopher's, be sure to rate review and share this podcast. And remember to subscribe, so you never miss an episode. Aspire higher at Disney institute summit. Unlike other conferences, where you only hear ideas, a Disney institute summit is learning that fully immersive be inspired by Disney executives and discover their methods for improving customer experience and leadership excellence. Learn more at Disney institute dot com. Michigan is one of the best places in the country for startups. But you don't have to take our word for it take to ruin Jeep does founder of Condor Detroit. Instead, here I find, it's a lot more collaborative in nature where startups are actually working together, and ultimately enabling one another to succeed, and we're a team of three people, but it felt like we were an army big things are happening in business here. Find out why by searching, Michigan pure opportunity.

harassment Allison Cape Alexis Christopher CEO Craig Newmark Yahoo Alison Cape founder Disney institute co founder Craigslist Konami Ann first round capital Disney institute Michigan Disney Jeep
How Women-led startups are finding cash

Yahoo Finance Presents

20:03 min | 2 years ago

How Women-led startups are finding cash

"When you have an experience the expansiveness yet. You haven't experienced the next generation of Samsung galaxy a cinematic Infinity display the practically blurs the lines between your screen and the world we're an ultrasonic fingerprint ID unlocks your world and the program cameras sees it like you do and in all day intelligent battery optimizes power to your needs the Samsung s ten s ten plus the next generation galaxy. This podcast is supported by linked in learning. We're all at different places in our careers. Some of us are just looking for a job. Others are trying to get promoted manage a team or do something new wherever you're at linked in learning has more than thirteen thousand courses taught by industry experts to help you succeed in your own way, anytime anywhere. It features. A vast range of business tack and creative skills. Employers are looking for visit linked in learning dot com slash learn for free to get a month free and to keep learning in all the career moments that matter to you. Investors. Need to step up and be a lot more intentional about funding. Diverse startups. There is a huge amount of money being left on the table. Billions and billions of dollars by not funding. Diverse startup. Welcome to the Yahoo. Finance presents podcast. I'm Alexis Christopher as the numbers are staggering. Just two point two percent of all investor dollars. Go to women led startups. My guest today is working to change that Alison Caperton is CEO of women who tech a nonprofit that helps fund female lead startups in the tech space. She is also the co founder of the annual women's startup challenge. And I'm delighted to have Allison on the podcast with me today. Hi, alison. Hi, thank you for having me. I am intrigued by women start the women's startup challenge. It's in its fourth year is that right? Yes, it is. And talk to me about why you started this back in two thousand fifteen in. What is it? Exactly. Sure. So we launched the women's startup challenge in partnership with Craig Newmark, who's the founder of Craigslist and Craig Newmark for land therapies, and we have one goal, which is to shake up, a culture and a Konami that's made it exceedingly difficult for women entrepreneurs to raise capital, and I'll give you an example so two years ago. A study came out that only two point two percent of women led startups were funded and a year later that number hasn't changed. So for the past two years, we've been talking about this problem about the lack of funding for diverse startups, and the numbers aren't budging. And that really was the catalyst for starting the. Women's startup challenge. Why do you think that is why our female lead startups having such a tough time getting seed money? So I think that there's a couple of issues here. The first one is that the gatekeepers of the investor world tend to be men and white men, and they tend to fund people in their network. So if the people in their network tend to be other men who look like them who think like them are launching products that were similar to them when they were having their own startups that is who they tend to fund and so right now there is a only about eleven to thirteen percent of the investor world is comprised of women investors that number is growing every year. But it's not making a big dent in terms of the funding for women led startups. And frankly, I don't think it should be on women investors to come in and solve this problem. It's an investor. World problem, and frankly, male investors need to step up and be a lot more intentional about funding. Diverse startups. There is a huge amount of money being left on the table. Billions and billions of dollars by not funding diverse startups and having them not expand their pipeline. A have you found that when female lead startups go before some of these V C firms that they are asked different questions than they would if they were male founders of the company, do you feel like they're treated differently in any way has that been your personal experience? I definitely think that they have been treated differently. And as a matter of fact, two years ago, we did a very large study on this issue where we spoke with almost a thousand founders and women in tech that were both men and women. In about their experiences of raising funding, and we found out that for women founders who were harassed which was about forty percent in the study seventy seven percent, experienced sexist harassment and out of that forty five percent, experienced sexual harassment. And then if we dug in even more into those numbers sixty five percent who experienced sexist harassment were propositions for sex in exchange for funding. What? Rocking. These numbers are crazy. Can we just repeat that for the listeners? What what is the overall number here? These are these are women who have who have startups and they're looking for funding. That's why we're the surveys coming from. Exactly, okay. Tell us those numbers just one more time Alicea. Absolutely. So about forty percent of women founders experienced harassment. Just general heraldic say, okay. And then seventy seven percent of those women who experienced harassment identified it as sexist harassment. Okay. Okay. I want to drill down a little bit. Yeah. What does her what constitutes harassment? Did. They get really specific in the survey. Did you give them some options? Exactly. So we gave them options. So once the forty percent, so that they experienced harassment, then we follow it up with questions. Great. What kind of harassment? Did you experience? Was it sexist harassment was that sexual harassment? Was it political harassment? Was it racist harassment? So seventy seven percent said they experienced sexist restaurant. Forty five percent said that they experienced sexual harassment and sixty five percent who said that they were sexually harassed. They were propositioned for sex in exchange for funding, just y okay? And I wonder if it's the the setting in which is taking place. Sometimes these meetings are small they're behind closed doors with with with people who are looking to invest, perhaps it's over a lunch or dinner and. On. I don't know if that's where they feel these these sorts of behaviors can be cultivated. But nevertheless, is really really disturbing. You said that one of the types of harassment was sexist harassment. What what does that look like so sexist harassment can look like you as a woman or being treated a lot differently than a man is in terms of raising money. So you could be discounted simply for for being a woman, you could be asked about hey, I know that you are that you've launched this company, and you are raising funding right now. Are you married? Are you planning on having children in the future? One. Do you plan on having children like that would never be asked by a man? And in fact, in our survey when we actually asked men if they had experienced sexist harassment, I. Think it was about ten percent of men that said that they experienced that counter that with the forty percent of women who said that they ex sorry seventy seven percent of women who said that they experienced that. And by the way, when we were talking about the sixty five percent who said that they were sexually harassed and were propositioned for funding in exchange zero percent of men said that that happened to them. Well. That's a stark difference. I'm curious if you or someone else has surveyed the firms, you know, why don't they give more of their money to female lead startups. Is there a trust issue? You know, I'm I'm just curious. So the feedback that we have gotten from the VC firms and we've spoken with money as well as angel investors is they say that it's a pipeline issue that they don't have enough women led startups in their pipeline. And frankly, we do not think that that is true that they may have a personal pipeline issue. That is probably very real. But in terms of the overall sector there is a growing amount of women led startups, and like I'll just give you an example where on year four of our women's startup challenge. We have access to nearly three thousand women led startups that have applied to our women star. Yup challenges. So it's really about intention is it is the goal of an angel investor or VC firm to fund diverse startups, then the startups are out there, but they have to be intentional about reaching them and recruiting them working with groups like women who tack working with groups like women two point. Oh, working with investment firms like backstage capital, we all have access to this incredible network. And so it's up to the VC firms to just be a lot more intentional. And like I said before they're leaving billions of dollars on the table by not funding. These startups, you know, that two point two percent number that we've been talking about a lot that just two point two percent of the VC money out. There is going to women led startups is that a fair number given that this really is an apples to apples right because there are a lot more just on its face male lead startups than there are female lead startups. Yep. That's definitely a great point. But it's not like there are three percents of startups. That are women lead. It's actually a about thirty percents of startups. That are women leads. So those numbers are are are dismal. They're terrible. And there's no reason for it. Do the numbers get even worse dare I ask for for minorities. What if life female lead startup? Absolutely. So I was just about to raise that. So for women of color, the statistics are far more dismal. I if you can believe it so about zero point two percent of startup funding has gone to black women founders in the last couple of years. But if we take a look back a store cly from like two thousand seven to about two thousand seventeen that number is like point zero zero zero six percent. Wow. Yeah. There are certainly work to be done. Allison, you know, the numbers show that the return on investment for a female lead tech company is higher than a company that has all male teams this survey that you conducted or or someone else there's been a few surveys out there. So. The Kauffman foundation has done a lot of research on this. And they found that private technology companies led by women are much more capital efficient achieving thirty five percent higher return on investment when venture backed twelve percent higher revenue than startups run by men in terms of first round capital when they looked at their own portfolio. They also found that women founded companies outperformed the male founded companies in their portfolio by sixty three percent. So when you say founded, meaning the female, okay, she founded the company as she then CEO has taken on a C suite type role within the Tump Lutely. Absolutely. And so that is pretty impressive. Why do you think the ROI is so much higher for for these women led companies because traditionally you hear that women, especially when it comes to investing in their own personal lives take on less risk than men. Do. So I think that a lot of this boils down to there's a lot less resources financial resources for women led startups. And so you have no choice that if you are going to make it as a women led start up you have no choice but to. Really work with the leanest resources and find a way to thrive, and this proves that that winning lead startups are much more capital efficient because frankly, they have to be they have no choice if they're going to launch a start up, and and survive launched we've said the the women's startup challenge in two thousand fifteen during that time you funded companies in a number of different sectors, health sciences fashion security, a lot of others. What have the results been so far how have things changed since you started? And how many of the companies that you helped fund are still in business? So that's a great question. I think one of the greatest assets of our program has been our impact showing the when you are intentional. About working with women led startups, and providing resources and capital and opening up investor networks women, let's start ups thrive. So Eighty-one percent are still in business from our program. Eighty four percent have raised funding and about ninety percent have gone on to establish major partnerships with with corporations like snap, and Amazon and Sony and so many corporations, so it's it's one of the the few programs out there that is really showing the VC community that if you are intentional about supporting women. Let's startups like I said through capital and resources women. Let's start ups while thrive. That's really impressive impressive list. There of how the companies have gone on to really do. Well, we know how difficult it is to be a start up male female or otherwise. And and a number of them do go under. So that's a great track. Record. You partnered with some big names Lincoln Google for this startup challenge. What role do they play in all of this? So when we Perner with the companies like Google and Lincoln, we typically co host these women startup challenges as he's had kind of earlier in our conversation. One of the biggest priorities that we have four. These women led startups is to showcase them to VC's and to the larger tech community and being able to partner with Lincoln Mozilla, Microsoft, and all of these major tech companies is so key for us to open up those investor networks, and so that's why we've been very intentional about partnering with those companies tell me a little bit about your background Allison. And how you come. You. You came to two women in tech and also start up the challenge where where what industry did you come from? So I actually have run a digital agency called RAD campaign, and we incubate women who tech inside the agency we've been doing that, you know, since day one because we really believe in solving this problem, and frankly, we just weren't seeing it done by many in the space. And so we made the choice that we were going to to launch the women startup challenge. And we were gonna put all of our agencies support behind it. And and we haven't looked back where we're completely volunteer run. And I have to say as a volunteer run organization. Our numbers are incredibly impressive. So in a national poll, you found that sixty percent of respondents agree that tech is not being leveraged to address America's top concern. And I guess one of them being healthcare. What role should tech be taking in in providing solutions? So it's been you know, we definitely have seen a surge in tech companies taking on health attack. And I think one of the things that that were that were still not finding is is the the the the key solutions to solving healthcare not just in this country, but around the world, and so we're very interested in working with startups and social enterprises that are tackling this problem, but particularly from a diverse lines. I think oftentimes when we look at some of the the bigger health tech startups, they tend to be run by men. And so I think it's if we're truly going to solve the healthcare problem around the world, then we need to bring diverse perspectives to the table to do that. Allison Cape of women in tech. Thanks so much for joining us and continued success. Thank you so much for having me. Thanks for listening to the finance presents podcast. I'm Alexis Christopher be sure to rate review and share this podcast and remember to subscribe. So you never miss an episode. This podcast is supported by linked in learning. We're all at different places in our careers. Some of us are just looking for a job. Others are trying to get promoted manage a team or do something new wherever you're at linked in learning has more than thirteen thousand courses taught by industry experts to help you succeed in your own way, anytime anywhere. It features. A vast range of business tack and creative skills. Employers are looking for visit linked in learning dot com slash learn for free to get a month free and to keep learning in all the career moments that matter to you.

harassment Allison Cape Alexis Christopher Samsung Yahoo CEO Craig Newmark Alison Caperton Kauffman foundation co founder Craigslist America Konami first round capital Google Lincoln Google
Tue. 06/30  Amazon Prime Video Launches Watch Party

Techmeme Ride Home

18:43 min | 1 year ago

Tue. 06/30 Amazon Prime Video Launches Watch Party

"Welcome to the name ride home for Tuesday, June. Thirtieth two, thousand twenty. I'm Brian McCullough today. Lululemon wants to buy mirror. That uber is thinking about buying post. Mates Amazon Prime Video Launches Watch, party androids airdrop competitor is rolling out, and why cloud gaming is the impetus for a new data center race. Here's what you missed today in the world of Tech. Lululemon says it is acquiring home fitness Startup Mirror for five hundred million dollars mirror is that. Well it's a mirror that you might have seen certainly back when you could ride the subway. There were ads for them all over the subways. Basically you hang a on a wall and you can watch video fitness routines in the mirror, and of course you can also match the movements you see on the screen in the mirror because it's a mere. Think of it as Peleton for you know just regular workouts and such mirror was last valued at three hundred million dollars quoting techcrunch. The two companies have a relationship dating back to late last year. When lululemon became an investor in mirror, the thirty four million dollars series B one brought in thirty four million dollars for the New York startups, one, thousand, four, hundred ninety five dollars reflective, guided workout machine, valuing the start up at around three hundred million dollars the company. Company has raised a total of seventy four point eight million from investors, including point seventy two ventures spark capital, first round capital, and a bunch of others mayor has been viewed by many as an alternative to Peleton's wildly popular connected machines. There's stiff competition in the category of connected fitness slabs, including tunnel and tempo, but mirror continues to be the biggest name of the bunch. The company came out of Stealth onstage at techcrunch disrupt in two thousand, eighteen and quote. And the Wall Street. Journal is reporting that. Uber is in talks to acquire post mates for around two point six billion dollars quoting the journal. Should it deal come together? It could be announced next week if not sooner. One of the people said, but there's no guarantee it will posts, which has held discussions with other possible buyers, since at least last year has been simultaneously planning an initial public offering. Just Monday people familiar with the matter, said the closely held delivery startup, preparing in the coming days to make its IPO filing public, which could presage a trading debut later the summer a combination would augment Uber's food. Food, delivery arm uber eats, which already has an international footprint and the second largest market share in the US after door dash, according to research from Edison Trends Post. Founded in two thousand eleven and based in San Francisco is the smallest the metal US players. The company has raised roughly nine hundred and six million dollars, and was valued at around two point, four billion dollars in two thousand, nineteen, according to pitchbook it had confidentially filed for an IPO in February of last year, but the plan was delayed when the IPO market became less hospitable to unprofitable startups, such as post mates in the wake of we works. IPO and quote. There was also of course that little thing about the global pandemic that spooked the markets seemingly only briefly so as we've said before the food delivery space needs consolidation in the sense that the companies in the space need there to be less players, or there's going to be less players in the space because there will be eventually a bunch of bankruptcies and yet this is a time where regulators are looking askance at major platforms, consolidating their power through acquisition. and. Uber has always been a company whose entire business model has been widely understood to be basically achieving profitability through monopoly consolidation of its markets. So would this sort of thing fly with regulators as Alex? Sherman tweeted no surprise that Uber is trying again to consolidate quickly, but can I post meets deal? Pass regulatory scrutiny. Some I spoke with predicted. Uber would go after delivery instead, but uber also thought Grub should have accepted its offer and quote. Amazon prime video has officially launched what it is calling. Watch party a desktop feature for. Prime video members to watch content together and. With up to one hundred viewers simultaneously quoting, Syrup has tech crunch. The host of the coaching session will be able to start stop and pause the watch party as needed throughout the session, and those changes will also be sinked to all participants devices, instantly each session can also support up to one hundred participants as long as those participants also have a prime membership or a prime video subscription, and are watching from within the US. While the video is playing, users can socialize with other participants through a built in chat feature that supports both text and built in Emojis at Launch Watch. Party is offered via prime video on the desktop and is supported across thousands of titles in the prime video. Video svod catalog this includes the third party content that comes with prime as well as Amazon originals like fleabag the Marvelous Mrs Mazel Tom Clancy's Jack, Ryan Hannah and more titles available, only for rent or purchase are not available within watch party at this time Amazon says to get started with watch party. Customers will click on the new watch party icon on the movie or shows page on the prime video desktop website there then given a link they can share with friends and family. However they want recipients who click on the link will then join the session and be able to chat with others. Amazon says the new feature was built as a native experience for prime video and quote. So then here's my question. Is this a feature that netflix needs to rush to copy because it's such an obvious feature especially for these times or Is Netflix's in the sort of tiffany position where it can be like we're net flicks. We don't need to mess with bells and whistles or With, the experience you know in love. We're net flicks I kind of think it is the latter but. Then again for a brief period of time. You could actually do something exactly like this with netflix's and. Lives, but then they removed the feature. And speaking of sharing nearby sharing, which is what android calls, it's airdrop competitor allowing you to share files between android devices wirelessly is rolling out now in Beta. So again from the news. You can use right now file. Maybe this is from android police quote. Nearby sharing may appear slightly differently depending on the type of content. You tried to share in all cases. It shows up as an APP in the APP. Share Sheet, but you may also get a smaller prompt just under the content preview more like it did. In the previous android eleven video leak we test it on a pixel xl and Pixel three running android ten, but the appearance may also vary on other versions of android. That nearby share works for both files like photos or videos as well as other sharable content like tweets, and you are ells. Actually it probably works with a lot of things select nearby share in the share sheet as the target, and you're prompted to feature if it's the first time you've used it, the quick setup process, let's you configure your default device name and device visibility settings. Those can also be changed later. Once you have enabled nearby. Sharing starts looking for other nearby devices. The interface is pretty simple. Big X in the top left quarterbacks you out. Your Avatar on the right takes you to a settings pain that lets you figure things like your device name, visibility and which? To us to make the transfer I e whether to use your Internet connection for small files or stick to Wi fi, or to always share off line, there are three visibility settings, all contacts, some contacts and hidden in any case. It appears that you can't blast out an obscene photo to a subway. carful of unwilling recipients like you can on Apple's airdrop. That said it sounds like you can still send content to folks outside your contacts. They'll just need to be ready and waiting for it with nearby share, open and quote. As of this moment need to be opted into the play services Beta in order to test this out and the roll out right now still appears to be very limited at that, but expect to see this feature. Go wide maybe by the end of the summer. Wrapping Up Another Block of reeds for Tavola the only advertiser I've ever cold emailed and been like y'all need to advertise on my show because I love your product. Tavola is a meal service for insanely busy people. They reinvented home cooking to save you time. They've actually served over one million meals now. So that's twenty two million minutes saved and counting. Tavola means meals. Meals that cooked themselves in the smart oven, no need to shop prep cook or clean instead use the Tavola Wi. Fi connected smart to scan, relax and enjoy. Two meals are sourced prepared and delivered fresh. They leave artificial to the other guys. You get weekly deliveries of the meals and you choose from new ones every week. I've been doing this for ten months and. And Trust me. There's so little repetition. GO TO TAVOLA DOT com slash ride right now, and you can see the meals that are coming down the pike to customers like me in the coming weeks, these meals could be yours. If you sign up in time, pick between three and sixteen meals a week. You can cancel at any time. You can pause delivery at anytime. Anytime you can raise or lower the meal numbers that you get each week at anytime. Just give this a try. If I'm insane and you don't like Tavola like I, know you will. There's a one hundred day trial and free returns, but also listeners to the show get an exclusive one hundred and fifty dollars off. Do it now Tavola Dot. com slash ride. Medal. Lab is one of the few design agencies in the world that can take product idea from end to end from napkin sketch to real ship product. Let's talk about their work. For Google Google's open source framework camp aims to enable the creation of websites that are lightning-fast, beautiful and high-performing across all devices while Google. Initially launched amp and early, two thousand sixteen, they wanted to better showcase its capabilities, and how content creators could use it to bring the web to life. Life that's where medal ABC came in metal, F- joined forces with the HAMP project to inspire publishers break misconceptions and completely redefine what's possible in the open source framework by creating amazing demo sites that showed the world. What was possible with amp met Ludwig. Project Marketing Manager of APP, said quote. We came to meddle APP to push the boundaries of what's possible when using amp. We're thrilled that they ran with this idea and create a beautiful highly interactive sites for us. Need some showcase designed just like. Google did Meta lab. Is Your Design Solution? CHECK THEM OUT AT META LAB DOT Co.. And I guess this is just the day of me telling you. A bunch of stuff is either available. Rolling out 'cause I got another one. Aws has made Code Guru. It's set of tools that use machine learning to automatically review code for bugs and suggest potential optimizations. Now generally available, so DEB's get on that quoting techcrunch Code Guru consists of two tools, reviewer and profiler, and those names pretty much describe exactly what they do to build reviewer the AWS team actually trained. It's algorithm with the help of code for more than ten thousand open source projects on get hub as well as reviews from Amazon's own internal code base, even for a large organization like Amazon. It's challenging to have enough experienced developers with enough. Enough free time to do code reviews given the amount of code that gets written everyday. The company notes in today's announcement, and even the most experienced reviewers miss problems before they impact customer facing applications, resulting in bugs and performance issues and quote to use Code Guru developers continue to commit their code to their repository of choice. No matter whether that's get hub bit bucket, cloud aws zone code commit or another service. Code Guru reviewer then analyzes. Analyzes that code tries to find bugs. And if it does, it will also offer potential fixes, all of this is done within the context of the code repository, so code guru will create a get hub pool request for example and add a comment to that pool request with some more info about the bug and potential fixes to train the machine. Learning model users can also provide code guru with some basic feedback, though we're mostly talking thumbs up. Up thumbs down here, the Code Guru application profiler has a somewhat different mission. It is meant to help develop figure out where there might be some inefficiencies in their code and identify the most expensive lines of code. This includes support for service platforms like Aws Lambda and far gate one additional feature. The team added since it first announced code grew. Is that profiler now attach an estimated dollar amount to the lines of optimized code and quote? These tools have been in preview since December and aws says that during that time the likes of Atlassian Eagle Dream and depth factory all adopted the tools to great success. FACEBOOK says it is changing its news feed algorithm to prioritize news stories with original reporting. And also demote stories that are not transparent about their authorship it starting to this today in fact quoting axios. FACEBOOK says that in order to identify which original stories to promote it will use artificial intelligence to analyze groups of articles on a particular story topic and identify the ones most often cited as the original source. This won't change the news feed experienced dramatically for most users because facebook will still only showcase stories from news outlets that they or their friends follow, but the tech giant will boost the more original story within that subset. The company has been having active conversations with publishing executives on both the business. Business and editorial sides to help define original reporting so that it can build signals into its algorithms to boost original stories along with conducting user research, the algorithm changes only apply to news stories, and for now the tech giant is focusing on stories in English. It hopes to expand to other languages in the future in conjunction with those changes, facebook will also begin to down rank news in its algorithm. That doesn't have bylines or present information about the company's editorial staff on the publisher's website and quote. So, on the one hand using various signals to determine authority is number one. What tech name has done to determine the biggest stories tech each day for fifteen years now, and to basically what page rank did to form the original basis of the Google search engine twenty two years ago, so in theory. This is long overdue, but also it's not easy. Google news tried something similar to rank stories in terms of authority and failed at it somewhat comprehensively they gave up, and also there is such a thing as seo spam as we all know. meaning. There's basically no ranking system that cannot be gained. Today with a segment. That's more at trend peace than just a headline. Remember when facebook Google Apple, everybody was racing about a decade ago to build data centers all around the world to keep up with their exploding usage of cloud data. Well now that video game companies are shifting to the cloud. This has sparked a new infrastructure arms race to build even more data centers, but now building them as close to users as possible in order to achieve the low latency and zero packet loss necessary to have cloud gaming work, so imagine a new data center landgrab underway that is sort of like how Amazon always needs warehouses in fulfillment centers close to customers. Quoting wired while services performance depends in part on your home Internet situation, and will change with the arrival of five G. at least on your phone. Much of its lasting success will hinge on data taking as short and uninterrupted a round trip as possible from your hardware to a data center. It's everything besides bandwidth second only to bandwidth says David, Lytham Deloitte's chief cloud strategy officer of the importance of data centers to cloud gaming competitors quote the company that provides the fastest infrastructure and the largest points of presence in data centers around the world. World that's GonNa go to WHO's going to be successful and quote if you're playing God of war in Egypt, but your cloud gaming services, closest data center is in Qatar. There might be enough delay between your inputs and criticism movements to emotionally disconnect you from the game play in the US sending an ex slash signal from the east coast to the West Coast takes forty to sixty milliseconds more than enough time for frustration to creep in to give as many people as possible, the best latency possible. You need to own or rent space. Space from a lot of well located data centers quote the slight increase in latency, lag or jitter can send early adopters away from these new platforms, and back to their consoles, and PC's says Jennifer curry the senior vice president of product and technology at data center Colocation Company in-app, just twenty to thirty additional milliseconds can be the difference between a top tier service and an unviable service and quote the point the piece makes is that if cloud gaming is inevitably the future than the simple question of lacy will likely decide who the winner will. Will Be. It's just that simple, and so when you look at it from that angle, it's not that the big tech companies as I speculated before decided, they needed to get into gaming simply because they're hunting around for a new revenue stream, or they need to justify their massive investments in cloud tech. It's maybe that the big tech behemoths are possibly the only ones with big enough pockets and infrastructure in place to actually make this happen in the first place, so if disruption is coming to gaming, it's GonNa. Come from the top down. Nothing pithy for you today. So I'll just talk to you tomorrow.

Amazon Uber Google Tavola US techcrunch FACEBOOK Netflix Aws New York first round capital Brian McCullough Peleton Tavola Dot. San Francisco cloud Peleton
Josh Kopelman - The Past, Present, And Future Of Seed Investing - [Invest Like the Best, EP.170]

Invest Like the Best

55:53 min | 1 year ago

Josh Kopelman - The Past, Present, And Future Of Seed Investing - [Invest Like the Best, EP.170]

"This episode is brought to you by coughing. I've become very interested in the best software tools in investing and when I asked twitter for the best Bloomberg Alternative. The overwhelming winner was an excellent new product called Coif and it's a web based platform that you analyze stocks. Etf's mutual funds and other asset classes in one place. I've been using everyday to track. What's going on in the market? And I think if you try you will to. Cohen has a ton of high quality data powerful functionality and clean interface. The best part is that it's free you can sign up at. Www DOT CO DOT com. That's K. O. Y. F. I N. DOT COM Hello and welcome everyone. I'm Patrick Shaughnessy. And this is invest like the best. This show is an open ended. Exploration of markets ideas methods stories and strategies. That will help you better invest. Both your time and your money. You can learn more and stay. Up-to-date AT INVESTOR FIELD GUIDE DOT COM. Patrick o'shaughnessy is the CEO of Shaughnessy Asset Management. All opinions expressed by Patrick and podcast. Guests are solely their own opinions and do not reflect the opinion of o'shaughnessy asset management. This podcast is for informational purposes. Only and should not be relied upon as basis for investment decisions clients of Shaughnessy Asset Management May maintain positions in the securities discussed in this podcast. We'll I guess. Today's Josh Koppelman. The founder of famed Venture Capital First Round capital prior to starting first round which has invested in the earliest stages in companies like square uber and roadblocks. Josh was a three time entrepreneurs so our conversation spans early stage. Investing Business Building and entrepreneurship. I'll not soon forget. His analogy distinguishing between navigators and cartographers nor the rest of the interesting ideas. He shared after seeing an investing in so many business. We also discuss. How first round has bucked the trend to build what I'd call a platform adjacent to the court investing business which does a lot for their entrepreneurs and is a model for other professional investing firms both in venture and elsewhere. Please enjoy my conversation with Josh Cop. Josh thanks so much for doing this with me. I talked to a really early stage seed investor about kind of the Post Kobe. Nineteen investing environment. We're going to spend a lot of our time on just evergreen investing principles but I sort of feel obligated to start with a couple of questions on just how the environment has changed very quickly. Had We had this conversation when we first scheduled it in January you and I would have probably talked about very different things. It's amazing how the world has changed and I would love to just begin by hearing your take on how what has happened in. The world affects your part of the investing ecosystem really at the earliest seed stage. Sure so I think that the job of CEO is to predict the future or invent the future and oftentimes. You're trying to deal with an uncertain world and your aperture is set to a certain range right now. Just give them the period of uncertainty that we're going through the APERTURES. So broad if I was to differentiate I think there's two different challenges. The first is companies that have already been funded so companies that raise their seed funding in the last some time in the last eighteen months they raised a certain amount of money and they have a job to do with that money. Whether it's to build the product to generate product market fit to get to market and those companies are all now quickly recalibrating. How much capital they have. And how much runway? They have to accomplish their job for new companies. I think they're trying to deal with the fact that VC's say they're open for business and VC's say were still writing checks that's exactly what they said in two thousand and eight two thousand nine and the first quarter of two thousand nine. The venture funding was less than fifty percent of where it was first. Quarter two thousand and eight so we have yet to see it. Play out in terms of the funding environment. I'm curious how you think the type of founder that is kind of pulled to start a new company into this environment affects how you think about what you find. Do you find that. This sort of stressful environment attracts a different sort of founder. That's looking for their first check now. Maybe that's just beginning to start their business than three months ago so I think right now you have yet to see the change in the market. Anyone who's out fundraising now was pretty much working on their idea of before. Cova nineteen hit what I can say is looking back after the DOT COM crash in two thousand and one and looking after the great recession of two thousand eight. What tends to happen is that the tourists go home. As the economy has boomed or as startups have access to capital the capital to some degree the constraints on Capitol Reduces. It gets easier and easier for people to raise capital and more and more people are willing to start companies and take that risk. I think what tends to happen now as you get more of the true believers more people who are willing to embrace a true amount of risk given the fact that you're just dealing with the massive uncertainty regarding a fundraising environment. There's just so many scenarios that people don't know some people still think we're expecting a v-shaped recovery. I think most people are expecting a much longer recovery and therefore the people that are starting companies today or that are thinking about starting companies in the next few months are going to be the true believers the true entrepreneurs and the tourists impose irs will have gone home. Tourist idea extends to the seed stage of venture investing as well. One of the things I've noticed from the cheats is. I don't know what the number is hundreds of Solo. Gpc Venture Capital Funds. Twenty five fifty million dollars ten dollars whatever. It seemed like just an insane proliferation of these sorts of funds often from very young. Maybe these are people that would have been founders in the normal environment have become. Vc's is that tourists to do you think that part of the ecosystem on the investing side gets washed out. I wouldn't say washed out but I do believe that you're going to see a rationalization. I think that the vast majority of those funds were funded by individuals and family offices who have exposure to publicans private asset classes. And I think that you're going to see the Capitol get a lot tighter for those folks. I think you're even going to see it. Get tighter. For funds that have been backed by traditional institutional endowments and should fund type healthy as well but yes. I do think you're going to see sort of all of this ripple through. I'd love to go all the way back to the beginning. I was so interested in doing a little bit of research ahead of this conversation to read about your rapid succession of entrepreneurship. I ran has been around for a while but it was just a maybe the fourth or fifth iteration. I think of an entrepreneurial bug that you have. I'd love you to describe just the early couple of companies that you built in the nineties. Sort of what? They did and use that as a way to explain to listeners. How the nature of forming a company has changed from when you were doing it. The cost of starting a new company the time to first product. Tell that story about arc because I just think it's so fascinating. I got my first start. While I was an undergraduate at Penn I co founded a company called in fanatics back in nineteen ninety one. We built a product called homework. Helper was the first product compuserve prodigy and America Online that offered sort of educational resources to students and cure fortunate enough to go public in. Nineteen ninety-six after that I started a company called half dot com and half dot com quickly became a top ten ecommerce site. It was a person to person marketplace that enabled people to buy and sell used books. Music and movies is a precursor to what is now the Amazon marketplace where individuals can list items as well and ebay quickly acquired that one in June of two thousand. I think I kind of shut the door. On the DOT com boom rather be lucky than smart and then the third company I helped to found was a company called turn tied which was anti spam router not semantic quickly acquired. What was interesting. Is that even in that short period of time for nineteen ninety one to two thousand and three but you just saw a tremendous decrease in cost to start a company for Informatics for Homework Helper. That first company we had to build our own data center. We built the Halon Fire Suppression System. We had a diesel generator outback. We bought expensive ten of hardware and it took us over five million dollars to get the first product chip the second company. Half DOT com. We were able to rent a cage but we have stock it with our own Sun hardware and it took us about two two and a half million dollars to get the first product. Chip WE COULD LEVERAGE. Lennox other open source tools. The third company turned tied took less than about five hundred thousand dollars to get the first product chip and see saw an order of magnitude drop and at the same time. What was interesting. Is THAT VENTURE FUNDS. During that same thirteen year period or so had tripled in size and the average initial investment tripled inside so that was like a thirty x swing when you combine tax increase in capital efficiency at a three x increase in venture fund. Size thirty x gap and that was kind of what led to the insight to start first round in two thousand four. Do you think that that trend has slowed considerably in recent years? Because my subjective interpretation is switching onto eight of. Us now isn't even necessarily cheaper. It's definitely better than physical infrastructure more flexible. But it doesn't seem to be a cost saving. So I'm wondering if that kind of curve has reached its diminishing point so I'd say that. Aws is still cheaper in that when you sit down and look if you're a startup company and you need to actually go out and buy that hardware yourself. There's just a certain basic cost that you're going to have to spend so I think. Aws could allow company to get started for a couple of hundred bucks on their credit card. Which is much cheaper. I think part of the challenges access to talent has gotten a lot more expensive. You're now building for multiple top forums. You're getting to build for native web for android for iphone. And so you're sort of duplicating costs so I do think that the cost of the decreases have pretty much flatlined. And I don't see it sort of continuing to get to next cheaper over the next ten years to start a company given the first round is investing at the earliest stage seed precede. I would love to hear how often one of these would be founders. Already has a product or it's just the slide deck. I love this concept of the very early days of new idea or a new product and loved aunt. Ask a bunch of questions about your experience watching so many founders kind of go through this this idea stage so I what do you think are the most important lessons that you take from your own entrepreneur days of that sort of product seed? Fire the core idea and how to integrate on that idea versus at some stroke of Eureka. Genius that we have the plan that you just go build it. Do you think that the best founders are? It's more about their personality or more about the original idea. Oh I think it's far more about the founders personality than the original idea and there really is no original idea. I think an idea evolves over time so I think a founders just pulling this threat. They're trying to sort of discover some insight and something were they believe. They're right on the market either. Believes the wrong or has unrealized yet so I think that most of the best founders are really good at sort of weaving that tapestry as they pull that thread and the idea of olives so even when you look at most of the companies that we've backed by the time that they're successful oftentimes. It looks very different than where it first started so for us sort of do we look at the product that when someone pitches us if they have a prototype. Of course we do but for us. The product is more of a lens to understand how a founder makes decisions what a founder prioritizes and how they process signal and separate signal from noise in terms of collecting data from the market. What have you learned about for evaluating that aptitude in a founder over the many years of looking at seed stage? Businesses are the major ways that you are models that use for investing. Today that you wouldn't have used in the early days of first round. Look being founder is hard. You're just dealing with massive amounts of risk of unknown uncertainty but more importantly you're going against the grain of everything that is taught when we raise kids today. Our educational system is such that. We've a product that values conformity with kids. Go through school. We built an education system. That's designed to raise the greatest number of people up and increase their standard of living. And we do that by conformity and so everything a kid is taught is about how to follow the rules when you show up your first day of class at a college and they give you the syllabus what is that that is a roadmap for your class. You don't have to guess what to read. The professor will tell you what to read. You don't have to guess what to read it. They'll tell you enter it. They'll tell you when the quizzes Will Give you the study guides. And in fact they'll give you the cheat codes for the class by telling you what class participation is fifteen percent these assessments are this and they tell you what winning looks like yet when you start a company. No one tells you what to read and what not to read. No one tells you went to do something and no one tells you what winning looks like. And so it's really hard. You're kind of like stepping off this conveyor belt of conformity and just going the other way so one of the things that we really look for our what our experiences in that founders past where. They've gotten off that conveyor belt where they have been nonconformist and it doesn't have to be entrepreneurial it could be. Did they choose a major in college or did they create their own major? Do they join a club or nonprofit to help or did they start a club or nonprofit today read books or magazine articles or write them? What are the things that they do that show that they're comfortable going off? Because so many people we raise the society of navigators of map followers but most of the best entrepreneur cartographers and know how to create their own map. What are the things? I know that the voting structure for investment at your firm is a two-thirds majority among the partners or historically has been correct me if I'm wrong. What have been the most common arguments you've had when something is floating around that two-thirds barrier as a partnership so it still is two-thirds it tends to be far more of a conversation than vote and I think for us. The biggest sources of disagreement are on relative weighting of risks or opportunities so we might meet with a founder. That's building some hardware and one partner would say I think the founders completely off on their timing or their cost of complexity of actually building this piece of hardware and I think a different partner might say I agree the founders off but that's a risk I am willing to take whereas partner would say no. I am not willing to take that risk so for us it. Oftentimes it's not a disagreement. In fact oftentimes we acknowledge the same fact pattern but we just prioritize or wait the risk on that differently. I think that's the surface area of a lot of our conversations inside the partner meeting trying to make sure trying to isolate the facts if we agree on the facts if we disagree on the facts that we need to go back and actually do more work but if we agree on the facts then it's a question of explaining. What are the reasons for either the highway to the low weight on that? I'm sure that these partner meetings are both very fun. Invigorating and also mentally taxing. I'm curious what number of opportunities you are willing to or typically evaluate in a given meeting. So I'd say it's anywhere from zero to. It's hard to do more than two in any given meeting and one of the things we've done just historically given the pace of seats stage is that we've actually moved to to partner meetings a week rather than one so. We have meetings on Monday and Thursday to sort of increase the access to our ability to get to a decision just given the competitive environment so for us. If we're having partner meetings twice a week it's hard for me to see US inviting more than two founders. Partnering give a specific meeting or discussion around a company that stands out as the most heated or took the longest for the partnership to deliberate on looking back. Yeah I could look at our investment in. A company called roadblocks which is a gaming company and my partner. Chris Froehlich brought it in and we passed the first time so we said no and then Chris persevered and sort of went out and collected a lot more data and brought it back and thankfully thankfully we agree with but there have been times where we've said no to an initial investment at for six months later re been able to reassess it either with new information or a different lens to evaluate for those. That aren't familiar with that company. Can you briefly describe what Rohbock says? Sure roadblocks as a virtual world gaming company. So it's a company that's targeted at kids. If you know someone who's age seven to thirteen there's a sixty to seventy percent chance. They are an active roadblocks player. The coolest part about this world that all of these games and all of these experiences are created by the community members so when fortnight became a thing roadblocks users created their own version of fortnight in robots. It's a world where there are just millions of games and those kids are actually getting paid to be developers based other people using their games. You're talking about tens of millions of active users and especially now just given the quarantine. Everyday is Saturday for roadblocks. I'm curious to hear your thoughts on this word platform. It's a word that certainly consider roadblocks to be a platform something that enables sort of the open creativity of its users. What do you think about that? Word is overused in seed stage. Investing is it's something that you look for in companies the potential for them to be a platform for others. Yes so the answer is yes and yes it is extremely overused and I think for the most part most platforms get their start lay of a killer APP. That's already innate. In the product before facebook became a platform they were a very strong social network in and of itself. Most people don't remember but when the IPHONE launched. It wasn't an open platform every single APP. When you bought the iphone whereas developed by apple and then they built the APP store and enabled other people to build on this salesforce far before becoming PD PLATFORM WITH FORCE DOT COM was a very compelling Sierra. So when we're evaluating platforms what we're trying to understand is it's really hard to see someone stint sharing a platform day one without a really compelling use case in terms of an owned and operated matter in terms of sort of that operator building something that has hooks and it could be really sticky and only then only then do you earn the opportunity to expand from a very compelling product to a compelling platform so sounds more like the platform strategy is a great way to scale of business not so much the best way to start a new business. It's really hard to see platforms that start day one as a platform. In in almost all cases they start off with a very compelling sort of single user or initial value proposition and then expand speaking that notion value proposition. I loved that idea. You had that companies should ask themselves what Google search they'd want to appear I on. Can you expand on that idea a little bit? Yeah oftentimes you have a founder. Who has a very clear understanding of what they're trying to build but a less clear understanding of the need they're trying to solve the market and so the first question I would ask a found. Bor in those cases is if I could give you the number one position on any Google search if I knew Larry Surgeon said just what? You're going to be the number one organic answer to search ex like what is that search and then the second question is is that a search that people are searching for today or is that a prediction that you have as to that people will be searching for that in the future and if so why so are you solving an existing knee pain point that people understand and are actively seeking a solution for or have you found something that you think will be a pain point but people don't even know it yet and just like that very simple having to lay out a Google Corey forces a level of transparency to sort of understand. Exactly what Problem Yourself? Do you think that the better investment opportunities come from the existing problem or the forecast problem? The hard part with a forecasted. Problem is now. You're having to deal with the risk of time. You have to deal with the question of. When will this be a problem? Not only are they right but are they right in a period of time that soon enough as a seed stage investor typically. It's rare to see. Companies have more than twenty four months of runway so if a company has twenty four months a runway and they want to raise their next round maybe in eighteen months. And they're gonNA take six to nine months building whatever they have. You have a very tight window to actually be able to validate or demonstrate traction when I founded first round by CO founder was Howard war game and. He says he's made a lot of money. Funding things early and lost a lot of money funding things way too early. So part of the challenge is not only understanding the bet. But you're also making a very specific time. Bet We'd like to sort of at least fun. Something where you at least have an early thread. On the fact that people are asking that question it might be a very small group of people it might be a group of early influences or early adopter so if you assume that tens of millions of people are going to be asking this query in three years from now but today there are thirty thousand people who are really focused on this like. That's totally fine. But if it's a question that no one is asking right now it becomes really hard to sort of see how you're in a typical venture funding landscape and timeframe. You'll actually be able to validate this sort of dovetails with this present. Problem VERSUS FORECASTED. Problem is this idea of existing behavior versus behavior change. I've seen you say elsewhere that it's typically much easier to build something that lines up with an existing behavior of the user versus trying to change the way they behave so I think that makes sense. Have you ever seen an example though of a company that did successfully change behavior? Oh sure I guess it depends what you're talking about. The extent of a behavior change the level of transparency that you see people posting on social networks is new and novel behavior the last fifteen years yet people did write letters and they did share information and they did send photos to people previously on the one hand. You could say is social networks. A novel Behavior Change Yet. The that people are constantly chronicling their lives on instagram on snapchat on facebook. Of course. That's a heavier change. But there was some common thread that they pulled on in terms of human behavior belonging to a community sharing their life with people in keeping people informed. But when you look at most tools that you use today whether it's the iphone or the APPs on the iphone there were phones and use taxis before you took Uber so for my perspective. I think that it's very hard to sort of say. I see this new this new view and I'm going to do something completely different that no one has ever done before known even knows they need to do but finding a way to do something that has been done before in a new inventive creative way doing it faster better cheaper. Those are the opportunities that tend to attract me because at that point the biggest risk that you have is the seed. Stage INVESTOR IS A so. What risk if you build it will. The consumers actually engage. And if you're able to tell a story that says people have done x for a long period of time but doing Y is better. That's very easy to understand that as an investor. You can have clarity on the bet. You're being estimate. In addition to the Google query question. Are there other devices or questions like that that you often use to suss out whether or not a founder has a good grasp on the problem? They're solving were their idea. I think. Oftentimes when a founders pitching VC. Here she believes that their job is to have all the answers. So you ask a question and they just they tell you the answer you say. What's your sale cycle? They'll tell you sixty five days or what's your back and they'll tell you eight hundred I think instead one of the things that we really look for our founders who are able to articulate what they don't do because the difference between a start up at a company is pretty much like startups job is to learn and accompanies job is to grow a startup. What you're trying to do is maximize the learning for dollar spent. You WanNA learn as fast as you can and as cheaply as you can so in my case most of the best founders have a real grasp on what they know and what they don't know and are able to sort of intelligently talk about the unknowns in there after figuring them out and so for me if a founder get stumped by asking. What don't you know rather than what do you know? That's a warning sign. I love that. What do you think of the environment that we sit in today where? There's incredible dominance by large incumbent technology companies. Which just reading the tea leaves in the early days of. Cova if anything. It appears that that may strengthen that Amazon or the usage rates for some of these huge tech companies has gone up during this early stage of the pandemic. I'm curious how you think about the dominance and the role that those big incumbent players the role that they play in how you think about funding new companies. My Friend Josh. Wolff calls this. The mega and the minnows. Elevate little concept. Do you think that the minnows are facing a harder battle? Because of the dominance of these big technology companies today yes one hundred percent yes and even because when those minnows begin to grow I think what all of these large platforms have seen is the cost of missing a platform shift. Aol The platform shift from. Dial up to cable Modem and died Yahu missed the platform shift for search and mobile and died became footnotes. And what's happened? Is All of the large incumbents. Have learned this lesson so when you do see something that looks like it might even be getting escape velocity whether it be. Oculus or whether it be instagram. They're grabbing them up. Not only. Are you seeing that. These companies are far more competitive farmer willing to clone features that they see other smaller companies. But they're also far more quiz. It'd which is limiting the upside of these smaller companies as you referred to them now I would say that there are areas where you still could innovate around them. And oftentimes a lot of that has to do with risky symmetry so after I sold half dot com to Ebay I was involved with some of the early discussions because Ebay was trying to compete with pay pal at that time and pay pal was a small startup venture back that was dominant on ebay auction listings. So when you bought something on Ebay you were closing that transaction or consummating the payment via paypal Ebay said we got to launch a competitor. So they said we're going to build this thing called billpoint an Ebay for the joint venture with Wells Fargo. So here you had the number one auction platform and the number one bank building this platform to compete with pay PAL. Why SHOULDN'T BILL POINT? Close the payments for all their actions yet. What happened was obviously pay pal one and everyone might say it was well how much better product which they did they said well. Ebay just doesn't know how to build products actually wasn't the case. What was interesting list? What I saw was that in the product planning meetings at Ebay. You had almost as many lawyers as you had product managers because at that time if you go back and look at PAYPAL's S. one. I think you'll see that. They were under investigation by over. Twenty different states attorney. General's they were in violation of the Mastercard and visa merchant processing agreement federal issues investigating use of pay pal for pornography and for drugs and gambling. And so now if you were Ebay and Wells Fargo and you had tens of billions of dollars market cap at the time and you had a choice and you had to say all right. The laws really weren't written to deal with this digital payment movement of money so we have three choices we can say. Here's the law. That is lily white. That's one hundred percent clean. Here's the law. That's your black ladder. Melissa's you can't do that but that's asked majority of the rules. Were Great. In many states there were two conflicting laws or you could interpret one differently and what I saw was that pay pal embraced the gray and said if we're successful the laws that are ambiguous will get cleaned up and the larger companies couldn't afford to take the regulatory risk of not being in compliance. There's no way wells. Fargo is going to risk their bank charter on the small feature on top of Ebay and I think that's a large part of the reason why pay pal ended up winning. And you see that all the time you see. That Uber is a prime example of some cases where they were clearly in the grave maybe some cases they went a little too buck. But I actually think that there are plenty of examples where some cases the large platform size and scale creates a risk averse or risk arbitrage that meaningfully creates opportunity for startups. Have you worked with many founders as effective? I'll say as Travis calendar at just being a bulldog and creating this opportunity in we'll call Mr to the grey zone. Know to be fair. My Partner Rob was the one that led art. Estimated over poor travis was an incredibly. I'd started three companies but there's no way I could have done what he did both in terms of his aggressiveness and his conviction he did something that very few founders could have done. You mentioned your Partner Rob. I've met a few of your other partners and it just seems like this incredible group. I'm curious what you've learned about. What makes a great early stage venture investor? Whether it's from the partners you've worked with or from the community in which you've been involved. What do you think we've talked a lot about the key features of a founder? Are they similar? For what makes a great investor or very different? I think one of the things that we look for the first thing we look for is empathy. It is really hard to sit in that founders chair you're having to make dozens of decisions daily with imperfect information and so unless you could empathize with the job that founder has to do and understand that the founder is collecting thousands of data points to make these decisions and that you as an investor after you've invested you see such a fraction of what they see so job number one that we look for his empathy because we think it's really hard to be a founder and it's important to realize that as a VC there's that whole story when the chicken and pig get together make breakfast. The chicken is involved in making the eggs but the pig is fully committed to making the Bacon and I think we recognize the best species are chickens. The founders are more involved than the VC. So I think it's important what I've seen is that the best investors are the ones oftentimes who asked the best questions of founders. Rather than you've the right answers to founders because your job as an investor is to help bring out the best in the founder not to replace that founders judgment with your own so I think that's a lot of what we look for is an understanding of difficulty and challenged that it comes with starting companies and so. I really been fortunate to work with partners that I think that shared that mindset enough philosophy are there areas of the industry taxonomy ecosystem that you think are especially interesting to look at today or is your approach much more bottom up at ESPN. From the founders. You're interested in the founders than the areas in which they're operating so we've tried. There have been times where you've done. We tried to come up with themes or areas or topics that we wanted to focus on. But for the most part I would say what we've learned is by the time something becomes obvious enough for us as a seed stage firm to say. This is an area that we want to deploy a lot of capital into. It's too obvious. Most of the time the best companies we funded have been ones where the founder has come to us with something that we had not thought four. And what's cool is that? We also have found that very few people had thought of that afford so for us. We tend to avoid being thematic investors. And just sort of tried to be open to rapidly learn. What do you think will happen in back to where we started this new environment as it pertains evaluations and therefore to the perspective returns of an Early Stage VC fund? I'm curious what a high and expectation of annoys talks about three x return or something like this as a target. Do you think that that has materially changed in recent months looking forward and is that mostly because of any changes valuations? So I think the real answer is. It's hard to know right now. You really seem very little impact in private investing because public companies trade tally and private companies trade by appointment and when you trade by appointment you typically trade as a founder you typically sell your. Sherice at the point of maximum leverage at the point of maximum validation. You have your curves going in the right direction. Now what changes that oftentimes is. If you're forced to go out and fundraise because you need the capital so there are gonNA be some companies that are going to be going out in the next quarter or two that sought they were going to be going out in one environment or now going to be going out in a different and that'll be the first time we get some sense as to what's going to be happening with valuations as. I said earlier. I think BBC's even though they say they're still writing checks. It's very hard to sort of have a growth mindset are an optimistic mindset when you're sitting hunkered down at home when you're sitting down trying to make sure that your coworkers your friends your family are all safe it just brings up a very defensive mindset and I think you're going to see that from venture investors as well. I think that when it comes to returns I think you're going to see it. At least what I saw during the dotcom boom and bust was that the funds that struggled the most were the UN's that changed their strategy aggressively during the boom times. So you had many funds that raised four hundred million dollar venture funds every three years. Four hundred million dollars every three years and in Nineteen Ninety. Eight nineteen ninety nine. They shrunk from three year fundraise to eighteen months down to nine months from four hundred million to one point two billion and those who changed their strategy or operating cadence at the peak or as we approached. I think those are the funds that were hurt. The most that were unable to reemerge. Now I think the opposite is also true. I think there are plenty of funds that kind of just left the market in two thousand eight and two thousand nine and stopped in best. And if you're an early stage investor like some of the companies in two thousand nine hundred thousand ten or some epic companies and so I think at least the that I've drawn from the past and busts has been to really try to stay true to an operating cadence or an operating strategy that works for you fund size check size fundraising catered. So it's one of the reasons why I around. For example today are fun. Distill were investing funds seven. It's about a two hundred million dollar fund. Our First Institutional Fund was one hundred thirty five million so we haven't in the course of fifteen years. We haven't even grown. We haven't to accident. Obviously you've seen most venture funds during the last fifteen years grow by five. There is a great line in a fire with a guy named Max. Clifford who talks about the history. Ambition answered the dominant technology of ambitions of the thing that the most talented people go due to seek the most leverage and he's identified technology entrepreneurship as that today. Maybe it was finance fifty years ago today. It's technology entrepreneurship. I'm curious how you see. Business models evolving within technology entrepreneurship. So some of the dominant players of the last cycle. They didn't have revenue for a very long time. It was more about eyeballs or distribution or audience size. Do you think that that has changed or will materially change and we'll see more early revenue clear value proposition charging for services within the bucket of technology entrepreneurs? So I think the answer is yes. There are two things I'd say the first is during a downturn VC's even when they're investing oftentimes there's always this balance of trust me or show me okay so when a founders telling you his or her story how much of it is trust that they'll do it versus proof that they've done it so. I think that you're going to see far more emphasis on. Show me in the next two years. Then you might have seen in the prior to. I think you're going to see less of a trust me a more of a show me. I think the second thing. That's become very obvious as you have a generation of For the most part when people were building a software business software by its very nature had incredible margins so by default if you had a successful software company you very valuable. Tech Company and that company would be able to get highly valued. I think over the last ten years you have a lot of. Dc's who really never had to learn how to value a company and so they applied. They just assumed that software margins applied towards every business whether it's retail whether it's real estate whatever it might be and so I think you're also going to see sort of a real shift back towards people trying to understand how companies are valued or will be valued because as investors have funded companies. I think during times sometimes money gets easier and money flows a little more a number of funds. And I think we've made this mistake a few times. A number of funds have funded companies that their underlying margin structure their underlying cost structure. Just don't match the typical quote software tech multiples that were applied to those companies. One of the things that I'm so interested in as little software companies that can charge very quickly just as someone joked on twitter. That profitability is the new product market fit. Which is not been Market classically defined attack? I think it's so neat to watch some of these. Little tiny companies charging very quickly absolutely. We were fortunate enough to be the seat investor in a company called notion. Oh yes sure and notion is just a perfect drift pointed out. There's there's really no marketing budget. There's really no sales budget. You just get on board. You use their free product and very quickly you're paying them for and when a company can sort of unlock that type of magic that it's really really compelling. He talked a little bit about the dorm fund. I thought this was such a fascinating idea specifically where the idea came from. I think it was maybe seven or eight years old. Something like that and then sort of how it's evolved. I saw an interview with you. Think soon after it launched that you said it's going to be an amazing outcome. We just don't know if it's going to be good or bad. I love ideas like that. So what does the Dorm Room Fund? So cofounded my first company when. I was a sophomore in college and then three years after I graduated that company went public. That was a marginal success. But many epic companies were started by kids in college. Whether you're talking about facebook or you're talking about Google or you're talking about Fedex Microsoft. Just you're looking at just billions. Even trillions of dollars worth of market cap have been created if you go all the way back while they were at school yet if you look at the sources of funding for students. Some students have such conviction in their ideas that they're going to drop out and then they'll go raise money from venture capitals but a lot of folks aren't going to drop out and there really is no good source of capital. If you're a sophomore in your dorm room working on an idea and you need fifty thousand dollars to get started. There is no good source of capital like. Dc's aren't in the business of a writing. Fifty Thousand Dollar checks or twenty thousand dollar checks and being. They typically don't do it to people who aren't pursuing their idea full-time and so we said wouldn't it be neat. If we created a fund that would fund these student entrepreneurs but obviously we're not best equipped to evaluate them so who could and then we said well if these students are smart enough to create these epic companies when they're in school. Why aren't students smart enough to invest in these epic companies while they're in school so we now have dorm room fund in four cities and Philadelphia San Francisco Boston New York and in each of those cities we have anywhere from ten to twelve students whether it's Harvard? Mit Northeastern in Boston or Columbia. And why You New York in those students are the partners. And they're writing. Twenty thousand dollar checks into student founded companies and over the last eight years they funded over two hundred companies and a number of this companies have gone on to raise a lot of venture capital. So when you look at the. Labor judge the twenty thousand dollars translating into hundreds of millions of dollars that have followed. That's pretty cool and I think for US. There been too interesting. Learning the first is we originally focusing on the student entrepreneurs as the most engaged community. What we've found candidly is that this community of investors is also really interesting so every year you have multiple quote dormer bud partners that are graduating from college and now over twenty five percent of them have taken a job in venture capital after they graduated so I think toured burned fund is now the largest pipeline into venture much larger Kauffman fellows in terms of sort of the number of people that were graduating. What's also really cool. Is that the DORM REFUND PARTNERSHIPS. The goal of rest is that the demographics of the partnerships represent the demographics of universities. So we're actually finding far more underrepresented female folks getting into venture because dorm refund gives them the the experienced actually write checks and perform that craft before. They're being hired to do it so for us. That was a really interesting word. I'm also really intrigued. That's been a good amount of time talking to your partner Brett about the platform that you've built again to use that cliche term. I think this is something that not nearly enough investment firms not just venture firms but investment firms. More generally speaking think about as part of their business. And I know you think about it as maybe a separate function or feature of first round than the investment decisions as sort of the core product. So talk me through your thinking there. How did that evolve? And would you recommend that other investment firms adopt this sort of side platform thinking? What's interesting is if you look at the type of company most. Vc's like tobacco say they liked. Toback they will tell you. They like to back software based Non Union services scalable network effect based companies. Yet if you look at the firms that most venture capitals build it is not software based its human capital base and it's anti network effect and what I mean by anti network effect is if value delivery occurs in a human capital way. So I'm a partner and I tend to board meeting and I going to deliver value to these companies. If I'm point on five companies I could spend one day a week helping my companies but as you had new nodes to the network. If I'm now point on ten companies I can spend one day every other week so with each new node network each new company you add to your portfolio. You're reducing the value prop for every other player. It's the definition of anti network effect. So we kind of stumbled into this which is Back in two thousand and six two thousand seven we created a Yahoo Group for our founders. Just a simple mailing list and we quickly saw that they were able to help each other far more than we could when Erin. Pats are who founded mint won the tech crunch disrupt conference and he won the prize and his servers crashed because he had a my sequel. My sequel got overloaded. He asked my partner rob and myself. Hey Do you know how to scale my sequel? The answer is no. Could you help and it was a Friday. We started calling people we do but then he posted it to the CEO for him in one of those folks introduced to Martinique. The founder of my sequel. Who was able to help them solve that. In like you begin to realize that there are these ways what we've done is we've now tried to productized that we're or whenever a company joins the community. They get access to a set of online tools online network. Not just for them but for their entire company so their head of data science could share best practices with headed data science at all of our companies. If you're an SEO at one of our consumer companies you're never going to really interact with your VC board member so your ability to get value. Add by the way most see board members are not how to deliver value on. Seo to your head of Seo but if we have twenty or thirty people that do that at our companies the ability to connect them is really cool because then what happens is each time you add a new company to the network you're actually increasing value for everyone else. So we've invested pretty heavily in software engineers to build an online network. That Nali connects the executive teams but tries to every employee at all of our companies thousands of people at all. I drunk companies connecting online. And we also extend that off line because we think that a lot of trust and respect comes from actually getting to know people in multiple formats so for us. That was a big advantage. Because like I gotTa tell you I used a company would launch and and they would say hey could you recommend they would always just call me as a partner in say. Could you recommend a good pr for? Could you recommend what do you think on incentive COMP FOR SALES REPS ENSURE? I might have a point of view but the ability to find that out for people who are practicing. Now look when I ran a top ten ecommerce site half dot com. There was no mobile. There was no social and there was no paid search. So if you're an ECOMMERCE company today asking me about customer. Acquisition the half-life of my knowledge as an operator is very short. So if I'm going to deliver any knowledge to accompany today what am I doing? I'm typically sharing what I've learned from what I've seen in other allender and other companies do and if I'm sharing what I've seen other founders. Do why not just take me out of the loop and the other founders share that. Gift Your Mobile Marketing Manager and you want to figure out. How do I get featured as the apple APP store the day? Maybe you could ask me well. Wouldn't it be cool to ask the mobile marketing manager of Uber Hotel Tonight Square and other companies? That have already done it because they probably can help you for more than I can and somebody that is actively building software really for the first time in and loving it but sort of feeling like a tidal wave of learning. That's hard to hard to face down. I love talk a bit about product mistakes in software specifically you mentioned earlier this great feature of good founders of knowing what they don't know and being in sort of hyper learning mode. How does that manifest on the other side of the ledger and mistakes? So what are the most common early products offer? Mistakes that you've seen. Maybe that selfishly I can avoid or others out there. Listening building software could avoid so. I think if the goal is if you're trying to learn something you're still trying to learn something through your software you're trying to say. Is this feature going to be valuable or not all too often? I'll tell you about a product that we built that didn't get traction. We said what everyone goes down. Raise their follow on rounds. They always create new. Google doc of all the venture funds. They're talking to and they kind of build their own. Crm At the same time for fundraising. So why don't we build that for them? Because we know how good funds should happen we will build it exactly as it should happen. So we'll build this fundraising tool to help them track. Which funds to talk to? Where are they manage their address? And it really never got that. Traction what we learned is we would have been much better off hacking something together putting it out there. Instead of spending six months building the feature perfectly get something out there to get in front of the customer very quickly even if it's not scalable even if it sort of vaporware just collect that data and I think sort of when I see companies that are make. Some of the biggest mistake is when they code something so perfectly in software with the expectation that they're right. I remember there was an ideal APP. Company called cars direct DOT COM. Which would help you buy cars directly from dealers. And when they first started guilders had the great idea of saying right. Let's just put up a four. What type of Cardio by? I WANNA buy Honda CR V. by X. Y. And build all the software to connect all the car dealers inventories and understand where things were. When you said I want to buy a Honda CR V. All that happened was an email. What you an operator or an associates in box and they said all right Patrick wants to buy whatever year whatever color Honda CR V. And all that person that did would call three local auto dealers asking if they had in stock negotiate the best price and then they would just typed in the price in to get in a form and it would just get automatically sent to that dealer but there was no software in the beginning that actually connected to all those dealers only after they realized. This is the cadence. This the workflow. This is how it works. These are how many dealers we need to connect you and this is the price that we need to be able to offer only then today actually in stand shed all that ended up connecting to the inventory and the dealer software system so they could programmatic dramatically do that. That's like a perfect example of sort of starting off with your goal is to learn very quickly but it actually is expensive too in stand shape. Process to incinerate something into a product. So oftentimes the best trucks are ones that startup super lightweight and then grow when they found that. Hook where they know that they've kind of struck a chord. I love that idea. It reminds me of game paths or something very often. They're in counter intuitive strange places but if you just look versus trying to guess in forecast and build for six months like you did with your product you might be far better off. Even though it doesn't feel like the right thing to do feel that's been my observation as it feels right to make it more complete so that you're not embarrassed by it when the first client but maybe that's exactly the wrong thing to do. Have there been people that said. This is what the product is going to be in. Gotten it right. Of course there are but oftentimes what you're trying to do is get something in front of people and I think when I look at Nat and Zach the founders of flat iron health and what they did there as well as invite media. They were exceptional at this. They would sort of put together. Almost like screen mocks of a product. Just getting in front of people. It didn't work. They would just try to understand. They would take their insight. Put into screen mocks. Go out have meetings come back. And edit they only built after they had fifty conversations where they were able to put show products and they had real confidence in what they were building. What are you most excited about? You've done a lot. You've built a lot. You've been a successful investor for a long time. Now what keeps you going when you wake up each morning whether it's within first round other things you're pursuing looking to the next ten years. What are you most jazzed about? So I think I have the best job in the world. I I wake up. And my job is to hear people's reads they come in and they're at the earliest stages and it's really just the difference between sort of what is a game changing company in. What's a novelty toy? It's hard to differentiate that the stage that we funded. I just get real energy by hearing people talk and share what they want to build and what they think the world needs and so for me. That's the most fun part of my job. The hard part is obviously saying no to ninety nine percent of them and doing it in a way. That doesn't get you very jaded. Visited mystery where you could very quickly get jaded and forcing yourself to maintain that open. Perspective is hard. Youtube was tried so many times before Youtube launch. You had real player like they were just so many people got a pitch that and dropbox there were things called carbonate and there were like tons of backup in the cloud type plays and so the hardest part of the job and one of the most fun parts is not totally pattern. Matching to the point where you're closed that you've seen something ten times before doesn't mean that the eleventh time isn't going to be the different one. It's almost as if you get to spend all your time in that learning phase you get to adopt the period of mega learning that each of the founders gets to experience over and over again. What a cool concept. You're the first eighteen months. They're just a magical period. The founder is they're figuring out their go to market their positioning. They're hiring their court. They're making their culture. They're figuring out pricing a product. All so much of the company GETS BAKED IN THE FIRST EIGHTEEN. Months and so certain selfishly. I kinda designed to firm that just enables me to focus and my partners to focus on that stage. So Josh my closing question for everybody is to ask for the kindest thing that anyone's ever done for you when I was starting half dot com by wife was a successful attorney and I think she really chose to sacrifice her career to support my dreams and that was a level of unselfishness and kindness. That I don't know if I would have been able to made the same decision that she met fantastic. What a beautiful answer. I've learned so much today and what I've learned as much as many of the ideas as like your excitement visible excitement. We're doing the zoom so not everyone will be able to see but they'll be able to hear it I just think that as a litmus test for what you should be doing you should have your kind of excitement so I really appreciate what you've taught me today and the way in which you've done it thank you for your time. Thanks for having me. It was a lot of fun. Everyone Patrick you again to find more episodes of invest like the best go to investor field guide dot com forward slash podcast. If you're a book lover you can also up for my book. Club AT INVESTOR FIELD GUIDE DOT COM forward slash book club after you sign up to receive a full investor curriculum right away and then three to four suggestions of new books every month. You can also follow me on twitter at Patrick. Underscore Osieck S. H. G. If you enjoy the show please leave a quick review for us on itunes which will help more people discover best like the best. Thanks so much for listening.

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The future of venture capital and how mindfulness can help founders with Nic Brisbourne

Product Hunt Radio

45:50 min | 2 years ago

The future of venture capital and how mindfulness can help founders with Nic Brisbourne

"Hi listeners claudia reuter here host of the podcast the forty three percent just back for its second season. The forty-three percent is a show featuring the more nuanced stories of women navigating their professional and personal lives exploring the balance between work life and home life for mothers everywhere something often difficult to navigate demanding and even controversial around forty three percent of women leave the workforce at some point after having children children and i wanted to move past a lean in or lean out debate and allow women and men to hear a variety of interesting experiences from amazing women across multiple industries. Make sure to subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts <music>. Uh everyone it's abba jesse your host of product talk radio where i'm joined by the founders investors and makers that are shaping the future of tech today. I'm joined by nick brisburg. He's the managing partner at forward partners. A venture fund based here in london focused on precede seed and early stage tech companies. You might know some of their portfolio companies like patch plants and appear here. You may also know him personally. From his popular newsletter. The equity kicker we cover a lot in this episode the future of venture capital and the concept of applied applied venture and the resources that founders need most the role that mindfulness plays in supporting his portfolio companies tech trends. He loves and loves and of course the products on his home screen so nick. Thank you so much for joining the us today for product on radio interviews with v._c.'s are actually some of my favorite to do because so many people in our community are aspiring to venture capitalists themselves house or are desperately seeking funding and wanting to get inside the mind of decision makers like you so. I'm a huge fan of view really through the equity. She coaches a newsletter. I subscribed to many years ago when i wanted to find out more about venture capital and of course through your work at forward partners huge fan of some of your portfolio earlier companies but for people who are listening and maybe aren't super familiar with you or the equity kicker or forward partners. Please tell us who you are and what you're working on. The coin was stopped so <unk> ripple on founder and managing partner at for models and where fake zeke precede n._c. State what makes us different is as well as having like think of the best investment teams in the business. We also run a studio team which is that to help apple companies to whatever they need to do to succeed and so the the inside the idea that we had at the beginning of this is the free happens feed your team that can help up companies <unk> than other investors investors have been the best deals and hopefully of the company's going to achieve cuts. Everybody will win. Amazing yeah watched some some videos of you explaining what your vision was with four partners on youtube which was really great and one of the things that you said in the video i saw was how you are inspired by the likes surgeries and horace and first round capital to to bring that style of value add investing to the u. k. and the europe scene and i just wondered how what do you define that <hes> that value add or really like can you just give us examples of how you do that at four partners because as you rightfully said this clip. I saw the folks claim to do it but i was curious to hear how you have executed on that. At fort partners great question unloved <unk> executing value add as visas actually turns at a pretty difficult so the individual level so you were ready. Hong also companies make introductions to see a discount on that help with the things which taking early stage companies need for they have big teams more operational thins and you needed team off a specialists to none brings you to challenges successfully the need to find a way to business model allows the to pay for that and then you need to find the people to join team and they have differences motivations is to be in investing capital funds becomes important to think about culture really helps title a <unk> creatives so that's what we've been working on now for six years of <unk> in things most with prada us developments in brand so when example recently took the mind at the moment. It's a company wages so that seth frente friend etching coming up. You'll be able to launch actually in time for the start of football season. You'll be able to when you watch football match with your friend could be. I have a bet against them on your fund in the ulster. The bookcases <unk> comes easy for about collecting money towards will get taken carol lead tables times which you might as my successful in making these wages so that the vision of the founders nydia indiana came to us lost guest september invested in that business in november or december. The guns had very a clear idea of what was failed. We went with them to customer research testing to really understand the emotional drivers custom with ms routing products designed the product figure which featured should be in the first release our what about designers if you connects <unk> develops have helped build nests been quite complex and the good news is that it was submitted to the stolen allows lincoln an approval the speak kevin was rightfully fit to come three quickly gambling out cell phone. Take a little touch it so we've helped them with or that analysis now as we go into the next phase will help them with marketing good customer a continued product development which right to make it better and orange <unk>. That's amazing. I wanted to dive a bit deeper into that because <hes> what i hear you have a lot of diverse folks in tame with different specialities different areas of expertise that you're founders able to lean into how do you then as the leader ensure that elders resources are available. I'm even thinking in the sort of early days of ford partners. I know some folks who are in the process of trying to raise a fund right now. Whether it's first of their second i feel like so much of what a v._c. Has to do is find funding for the fund and it sounds like you on top of that also thought out and i must find talent to support the founders. How do you pull that off so i guess the first thing is that i spent best year in together. I funding for four bonus. Once we had started at that was already <unk> had built a great service founded <unk> within the second thing is in the lucky with this the best investor would on his hind was out by the name of the hutchinson. He was running a business code ford internet group. Whoever got the phone in four hours from still have the heritage <unk> the state within ford integrate yadda lamps business was eighteen great businesses until <unk> entrepreneurs with our labs team had the coal of your team the diet that larry to get started you have a real chicken connect <unk> scratch for this strategy because on the one hand yukon high great people to <unk> companies <unk> ahead he he comes back up to the promise of any more value than anybody. Else's nicotine can do that anyway so that that's gonna crack the problem as we start to scale. Oh i guess the obvious on <unk> hide a great team of people around me who can obtain nuns living nevada correctional the level of edge captains background strategy consulting full that in two years in a stall tappin liberation road at really about strategy in an investment and delivering amazing funny right after the break they definitely needed people to help to the roman amazing so here on the podcast we always like to talk about the future of tack all the different verticals angles and elements that former industry in how they're progressing one of the reasons why i was very excited to have you on the show was because you're very uniquely placed to talk about the future of venture tropical. This is of course your own personal interest near starting a newsletter all the way back in two thousand six. I think you started blogging so well over a decade ago. <hes> intellectually leading fund now <hes> and i know in the last issue of equity kicker which i read you spoke about this idea of of how the sea was evolving particularly applied venture which your championing at four partners so i thought it might be great to dig a bit bit deeper into that and give you the floor to share your vision of how you see. The future of these see the future vizi is is one of ever-increasing <unk> in you can see different iterations in the business model of venture capital funds over the years as people sought to to find ways to help apple companies seeking joke about this because the vision for hamas add vision is of a world way every found the raiders is that attention and i think with the venture capital world attending tools applied venture <unk> coining meaning that additional help found his gag from the model really helps bring other types of into the <unk> system in a way the <unk> irritations event. You haven't done some <unk> situations so starting at the beginning of this century room particularly you can see this most clearly when some prominent p._c. Started to block we had individual on his venture capital tomes working really hard for that ovadia companies hustling actions in the founders and then the next situation came in first first round capital. You mentioned <unk> yet. They were the point is was the v. c. Modal hiring a small. You'll never beat lindsay a venture capital firm to have your company and certificates people with recruitment strategy production to agencies of time mm-hmm. They helped networking with other companies. Maybe russell content may be also help with introductions to v._r. Agencies that that's the kind of usual range sufficient platform team was set up in two thousand dollars fine as we sit here. Would we fourteen years later. That mobile is very voided. Now i think we'll have a hall of venture. Capital funds have some kind of platform team and if you cricket the most successful funds. I think that the <unk> law i up then the new model. Is that neurones there. Oh maybe maybe twenty funds during this globally which is one sufficient new. There is no one tonight for that. That's according venturin turin connect. The core areas watch stupid having a few aung payroll to help you ovadia competency wanna find a wait have as many as possible that allows you to help you betty companies with many many more things less oh sang <unk> and that should see to companies including achieve greater results and so jason horowitz stein's google benches will buy <unk> honest. It's another one <unk> jim in germany in europe one of kind of needing <unk> continuation of one person working <unk> pathetic company to have feud to as many as possible moderations that key to speak about this model as that. Let's move people understand that a natural progression they see the house has the founders in the results driving venture capital phones <unk> mobile. We'll we'll get the assistance they need and the more free fellow realize that potential. I love that it sounds very logical when you paint out but of course there are still so many firms that really are just about providing the cash so it's great to hear that you are evolving constantly in how you go about this just to go deeper into that. I'm quite curious to hear more about any feedback leaps that you rely on to decide what you provide or what you would like to provide more of particularly because looking forward partners port for example you've invested across a range of different verticals folks focusing on a diverse range of audience says how are you as a leadership team as a company deciding xijing where to continue putting resources or even what new resources you need to provide to support your existing you the future founders women working out which resources to offer the best way indeed had to get home working <unk> smooth <unk> liberals thought vents skype so we started investing in a broad range of companies focused esa <unk> on chrissy ecommerce precede marketplace companies <unk> businesses broadly simla. Hello intensive these they need an initiative was consumer so we provide is some experience experience in building effective consumer facing web science. She's a people convert them through to becoming customers in several supply-side the point like marketplaces the <unk> components that is converted to be similar across companies suvi-anne rated with product attack <unk> <unk> missile that one of the things that found us was trumping find enough time to effectively was recruitment sultan when you're growing very fast and take even the company to see us still h h doing everything than finding time you know and if you need your opinion c._g._i. In sorting our in july if you need to see the place relieve elite engineered to be in place in december in crisis you should raise au- in august september maybe now the founders so much other stuff to do that with struggling to find the time to really get <unk> mining so we added support with with position as a way to help people recruiting motoki fashion <unk> affected into startups and then more recently. We've been as as mature who seen there in gas around as they get bigger more. The brand is fully thought through improperly developed so we've increased 'support on on the brand sinek and then just last week actually with a new people into the we will be on the <unk> which is is recruitment to help inc companies to develop our coaches make sure founded rozov themselves <unk> occur. I i love that invested in people culture something that i often see folks in our community struggling with whether they're founder trying to define that for themselves as they reach a period of scale than their team ms growing or whether it's individuals who are between jobs and trying to find an environment working environment that really aligns with their values and what they care care about. I thought it might be a nice fun. Juncture to reference some of the characters that have inspired the forward partners culture over the years as we were saying before sorry start recording. I saw presentation. You did where you spoke of your computer. Having an indiana jones like character indiana jones and yoda and i wanted to just ask you why these characters came to mind for you end who the other characters are that inform or inspire for partners culture culture so when we think about culture which went to always trying to do two things on the one hand we try to reflect what we have have soda feels authentic and then returned to stretch yourself a little bit akeso. This is what we all today. <unk> tomorrow constricts things a little a little bit but not too much otherwise the couch doesn't <unk> even the business <unk> doesn't take <unk> exercise probably in two thousand in fifteen and we've done the israeli. You took the whole team of thought about what's important to us. Valley's spectacle behaviors aradio affected within four models. We will see more energetic so as we can look for some way all of capturing that which that would help it tuesday for months. Everybody through range of characters were initially. We were thinking about shook attending. He sees perfect history by form because you know like in any way you could bottles as shut that full fist accessible accessible founders but with a winning that wasn't quite right <unk> on indiana jones an initiative because indiana jones catches the adventure designed for with doing by four points on the bench capsule and with the startups <unk> marion in the enor- laron industries so that's kind of exciting chasing down exciting futures knocking metals <unk> side of things that the other part is the way that voice found that we work with the board level operational level within the studio and that seems more like an kind refund indian together is a nice contrast is net presentation and totally when she was entitled within the might say who had and we want safer in the office unikely instead of for a while but then we got together again and other a couple of years later and indiana jones at stiller choosing that doesn't catch it a creative pau halt ford bottles which is really important aspect of what we do as well and so then we thought that as she may be another davinci as as an individual individual catch it much better news narrative himself it will sit very wise very creative so e kit out the indiana jones in in europe. The big picture of the trivia mantle will today that you can think about these things to invalid affects by reinforcing coaching stretching things talk <unk> next yes. I think you're right. Particularly with your focus on authenticity it requires here's at constant self reflection and reexamination and there is often just as a consumer experiencing the world a real feeling ling of unease when one comes into contact with a brand that doesn't accurately reflect the individuals behind it. Sometimes it's even just sort like jumping onto a landing page kind of going still don't really understand what you do. I feel like this hasn't quite been thought through <hes> so it's nice to hear that you really use authenticity entity as an anchor to really inform the way you speak about your brand in the way speak about <hes> the firm to everyone else. That's i feel like there's a lot to we learned from that especially for founders who are just starting out and thinking about the kind of team that they want to grow in the kind of company that they want to build so thank you so much for sharing that i wanted chick jump onto another topic that i know you right interested in writing more about in the future i'm guessing is a core part of the four partners ars culture and maybe even your own personal life and that is the topic of mindfulness so in the recent equity kicker which i referenced earlier you you talked about how the practice of mindfulness is actually becoming a part of the toolkit that you support your portfolio folio founders with i want to give you the floor to tell us a bit about how this came about and what that actually looks like so think multiple onus is a a meditation on new concepts in the west at least at <unk> men's power to advice vice manage stress in the happy and fulfilled lives is a is a famous gunman inflation world in this in this space cool. Dan harris who who likes to say that once you start meditating become a joke you so i missed the joke to everybody around. You and that's quite annette level of of the attempts unhappier is is quite accessible but the challenge with meditation mindfulness is that you know this. It's relatively into new languages around. It is a mystical hawks. Access is very little album. Which says you know if you do then you get back in his voice. Oil is just as much time as you can into it. Amazing things will happen. Eventually <hes> and that is <unk> loved breakdown full the founders him so experience getting into meditation was kind of interested <hes> hunt than than anything about it for years and was just <unk> away. Full knee is game with my wife <unk>. This yoga funding to get together something about meditation and then i got introduced to hit space showed up to head space it started started a little bit <unk> acquaint join <unk> cayrol than good and them and i go frustrated with it for a couple of reasons to <unk> adventure them corrodes if jess rape and it looked like i was going to the finishing my work at gift jamie jamie run up to the point had agreed to foot rawness then then <unk> emerge that was going to have a full weekend and fiona. My wife said you should make sure that something interesting with that and so i said a that's a good show. I'm going to go to india. Meditate venture daunting was quite what she was also a <hes>. It was actually so <unk> to india really hot arrived at nudity at all and there was a sign up sign up inside saying outside temperature jet forty four degrees cents breaks one o'clock in the morning <unk> truck despite regional coming lecture three times but the details <unk> are forced <unk> end be was what many people the ashram <unk> was able to get a little tension in time with the people avenue get up of meditation reasonably quickly came back from the can cool the seeds of a sustained happy. I didn't get into an entertainment <unk> immediately but there was enough strength <unk> next to a threes annette's strength from there eventually evetually really accelerated since christmas yet in so christmas the sierras things accelerated me announcing real clarity on the emotions that was given it might be better able to <unk> was coming from react quickly to things listen to be more effective work and a bit betta that <unk> husband released so zing okay henry will do do more <unk> on this myself. I think there's something valuable lead <unk> address in particular the obvious thing to do that for is is to find a way to build a service to the founders in funding <unk> founders were generally which will help them give them <unk> they can get on and get those see signs. They can develop sustainable meditation meditation habit of there until i was six six months ago seven months now and have been investigating mats and a sense of what they able to do. You know how to really define defined things so there's a clear clear off crunch fitness of like if you engage with this this is thomas can be enough to and hello and this evening sexy get out so that they can make proper decisions about whether it's <unk> onto onto the spurs respect to a number of the founders nipple well they'll set at every single one set of head lama meditation think that's not for me and niggle said a joint develop habit number teams do more but you know the the a tool of the languages in clare tried head space lady but it didn't work once said i'm just too busy. Sacrificing everything from my style is not including my sleep and and if i have more time than i would sleep and i'm up to that i would exercise more. I'm up to that at miyoko <unk> but <hes> <unk> together goals. Would you put your time into that six week. Period <unk> four <unk> today between times from eighteen hundred symptoms said yes that that is a time commitment but in with getting sustainment section happened out backend <unk> differences been inspired partly by a google who have reruns minnesota kohl's which has premises the kind out of the club and partly by a lady <unk> dining league <hes> who hopefully will be the helps us from his gra- fouls this nissim amazing stats about how powerful meditation is and how quickly it make a difference but one of my favorites is a u._s. Company about two hundred employees like high stressful environment. They ran in eight week. Mindfulness kohl's that their employees which some some visited amid the eight ways they scan the brains the damn roy scans of people in the month from the school's <unk> hadn't and the happiness senses in the brains of the <hes> people have been on the mindfulness cools when the <unk> just operate wings a press <unk> favorite one it was also ultimate <unk> flu jab time and so they they monitored the response of the flu jack to the <unk> the differences between the mindfulness and they had the money from his goals and also just eight weeks of mindfulness trading people had stronger antiquity responses responses to the influence draft than the didn't their into their systems with measurably better just eight weeks <unk> mesalliance taylor's courtroom. Oh for what you can do some executive at the potential to introduce people to that won't be able to be not themselves different around definitely. I can totally empathize with this idea of not having enough time to meditate. Meditation often comes up a lot in discussions. We have seven the product on community as well. We might be talking about how we stay productive. How you stay motivated how we find that perfect work life balance and always someone. I will mention carving out time for meditation always someone will reply oh. I tried it but it wasn't for me or i don't have time or i can get into it. I was absolutely one of those people i remember. I being advised to practice mindfulness meditation by a very good friends parent who just been getting into it and she called me the book and gave me the c._d. Hey this is how long ago it was. It was on the city and i remember putting it into my laptop and listening to one of them <unk>. I just don't know but in the years since then similar to you. I tried head space for bit. I love symbol habit. <hes> which is a great app. Their tagline is daily vacation for your mind and <hes> and the funny thing about meditating which you i'm sure we'll agree with is it actually creates more time in your day because by finding the time to be fully present and find stillness in your mind you're able to find that stillness again throughout the course of the day and we live in very distracting times. There's always something that needs our attention in a push notification popping up somewhere and that ability to hone in on exactly what it is you need. I need to focus on right now. I find helps me be far more productive then i would be if if i didn't meditate and i didn't have that that ability or affect flex that muscle without make sense totally agree in a struggle to get real clarity on some of those points through my practice in one of the things things which helped catch polo when i'm doing myself was i read a book by <unk>. He's a american go ahead now but now japanese buddhist monk <unk> japanese tradition <unk> meditation is developed concentration mm-hmm sensory clarity equanimity and those three things separately <unk> benefits you just describing in it. It is the ability to concentrate its ability chore your focus back you construction back to the one thing that you should be focusing focusing on the brand which is the core oath of a little meditation practices. The court meditation practice is a haunt thing right breath is dull. It's repetitive doesn't bring it back that you know. You're the training your mind to come back. I guess distracted so that's apple and then and then you can use that concentration to identify itself salvador to to identify separate your emotions to fill them in different places in your body which makes it very to respond to difficult situations in an assault assault up founders in entrepreneur any any number of these rehauled situations in a difficult. You'll start taking the very early. Today's it's fragile is any number of things go wrong as threats coming in front into something comes in threatened your company and also directions inside so i do have some clarity different reactions all separate java different emotions makes the moral much less powerful so the way shes youngest gripes tip when the <unk> together they multiply if you have he cannot invite them separately. It's more or dishes so therefore much easier to do and then the third piece of that is the neck <unk> okay. I'm going to respond to these different stimuli with equity. I'm not gonna judge <unk> towards them and will push away from them. Instantly <unk> have considered reaction as to what is my best response to. What is the what is best gonna live in my hometown go which may well it's almost. It's almost never to get angry. Get upset which is which is where your mushrooms <unk> kentucky food correct. Yes i love that i often wonder we were talking about this. Last time our team all together we're or fully distributed team but we were together in san francisco in june for an onsite and we're doing a lot of presentations low public speaking and i was just having a conversation with some of my colleagues leagues around controlling nerves before addressing a big audience and i talked about how you know sometimes just taking a few deep breaths can actually she be a very powerful and very grounding exercise and i started to think of how many other situations are improved when one just breeds needs better or slower a perfectly same kind of thing with sports if you're thinking of running or even with yoga then i kinda wanna try self. Why didn't we learn that at school. I feel like i would abuse that more than pythagoras theorem. It just doesn't sit low with western education to answer even wins mike it's twelve hundred fourteen not now and the joke about my meditation and mindfulness succeeding in getting them interested in it a bit the competitive everything they say school on t._v. It's still very esoteric and that's one of the is in danger of falling into the whig. Uh well at least trying. I'm so i wanted to switch gears a little bit. One of the great things about this podcast is that we get such broad awed range of folks who are influencing and shaping our industry and i would love to know perhaps reflecting on some of the companies in your portfolio. What are some things about tech that you're really excited about these days so this is one of the questions <unk> various <unk> exciting so i can when i wanted to say is really what's most exciting for me is the way that the entrepreneurship startup ecosystem. The system is growing and growing in the world is changing foster and foster <unk> bigger and bigger problems to solve an entrepreneur is gonna be solving uh-huh for us and unable nettle <unk> the most successful entrepreneurs we have the most problems get so more economic growth we have and said that was exciting to you know the growth of the startup ecosystem flipping back to forward an applied venture thing. That's why it's so important. The the benca capturing a system imposed support more and more found this the moment were bidding dangerous skewing doing too heavily tools towards companies chasing mess of outcomes in a billion or even ten minutes <unk> outcomes now nothing wrong with his businesses. We've got a few dollars in apple. Failure grind contested evaluations. There's nothing wrong with that. There's this on the market which i think importantly so yes. I think you're right and i just wondered like do you look for the impact. Aspect of missions went founders. Come to you to pitch or do you apply that principle just sorta thank yes what will be the impact on the world area. What what is the <unk> scope of the problem that they're solving when they come to you or your team so we can think about the impact of the companies the companies who beck will will have on the world's we will getting ready for the second funds. I guess in the two thousand sixteen timeframe ravens dalton until bench. We have a dedicated impact frontside on the onion invests in companies that are going to have a decision impact a slight it against that in the end <unk> decided against that because it just isn't enough startups with bench scale potential tential <unk> impact folks in an authentic way too big from them do so we don't have any exclusively impact act focused on but we do like companies that that happened impact a human being some good in the world <unk> on and then they will so companies which have gone on making impact have a very solid mission are able to build more able to build those brands you describe for and <unk> accessible businesses so we've got one in the <unk> a company corey kids which is a marketplace for chocolate services prices and that what is in san francisco hearing you hey chuck airs message radio hog full parents comes to find people to to their kids and that stops a lot of people go back to work but they've had kids one or two people in a uh getting a price very expensive options which doesn't have that high quality <unk> into people's children enter the parents so what's cork during as bringing a load of new supply new nineties into the ecosystem uh-huh training them and using tech to help them effective in that jobs a an organizing shares in order to make the pricing pricing work for help groups of people that previously couldn't afford child cat that said a good executive of something which has an impact is solving ah really important programs the world and something that we're not amazing on the same vein when you think of the future of tech and trends that you've observed or read about heard about. Is there anything that concerns you <unk>. Everything has good everything of any scalise as ties good and bad components to it and sperry oversee truth the tech ecosystem in what's been interesting over lost five years. Suppose is that <unk> companies like google advice. Both the the good and bad sides will become increasingly obvious and delicious. Those businesses started to address address that directly in pre brought to that neighbor was wanting to duck. Some of these issues released that we provide tools what happens on that platform of his people that are on. I'm not out to us by providing the tools mitch innocently from a european perspective never really sits that well like i think we will have responsibilities the after we have on the world and running big platform with billions of people using it then you have to stand up and say okay oh it does matter to me what people don't and so she is to understand that this good and bad and to think intelligent nip at how me maximize the good minimize the back components in do thing that is required them to think that it <unk> back in shutting things down will use ultimatum popping up how square less this <unk> s._e._z. to from the direction they tank inside of caffeine <unk> through regulation of this tendency tools knee jerk regulation halt on sunday details all of this stuff so that promotes favor than yet these nuclear reactions so more or less difficult so what does that mean in practice it means that i think is absolutely right way all starting to think about what google facebook doing the responsibilities they should have in order to make sure that at the heavy doesn't happen on their platforms. I think that some of the moral installations forcing nymph split also the business <unk> stopping get business models oriented business photos but stuffing information-sharing <unk> <unk> asians but so the zones as you need to kind of think this stuff through more kathleen in actually do come up with wilkinson responses. Definitely thanks so much for sharing that well. We've come to my favorite part of the podcast being a product loving community here at product. We cannot let our guests go. Oh without sharing a bit about the products that they love these might be the apps that are on your home screen the productivity tools that help your team stay on on top of their calls or just something new that you've been playing with hardware software that you laugh but this is where i give you the floor to talk about. It works really well for us from a a culture and kind of helping manage the operations of music bit of chaos off echoed seven geese and couple that with a bit of review software software <unk> agreements that we use to capture a._r. Reviews in your view and so those two things together get the help us to manage efficient operations will be clearly articulate what goes on a three year basis and translates downs chorea cal's. Everybody can see how they'd countries to the organization goals that can see what else doings makes you i did not i wanna say those tools that are like a personal level so interesting jenny from it if you if you look at ryan you can of <unk> really a consistent and that may be very n._t. Apple in the early days but a feminist <music> of insulting tony into the ecosystem and as i have watched it is which is really not very exciting things <unk> using that to who runs in particular as this become <unk> better federal time <unk> has been simple help me recently classic tech uniform except for anyone who's listening in wants to find out more about you the projects that you've mentioned or maybe maybe even wants to apply for some funding. Where can they find you <unk> to ford buttons website so food pundits comb than does multiple ways to get adding contact particularly run over south rhames that once every six weeks webb will meet with twenty five thirty companies fifteen minutes h so that's a real incomes have on this wonderful. Thank you so much for joining us on product on radio. Hey everyone thank you so much for tuning into product hunt radio. I've got a favor to ask you. Will you take a minute to review us on itunes apple podcasts or wherever you're listening to us right now thank you thanks for tuning in. We'll be back next week but in the meantime share the podcast your friends on twitter and tag a guest the here and if you drop zone houston.

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The Rise of the Post-Seed Round with Paul Martino

Venture Stories

36:08 min | 9 months ago

The Rise of the Post-Seed Round with Paul Martino

"Hey everybody it's eric. Torbert co-founder partner village global aid network driven venture firm and this is metro stories. A podcast covering topics related to tech business with world leading experts. Hello everybody this is village. global venture stories. Amanda wayne co-founder partner. Joined here today. But paul martino bullpen of bullpen capital. Who is himself a serial founder as well as a founder of a vc firm about ten years ago. They've just announced on five and at an amazing new partner. And and we're going to dig in today to paul's entrepreneurial stories his lessons for entrepreneurs all about bullpen capital and their thesis. And what it's like to work with them and pitch them so now without further ado paul. What drove the name. Choice of bullpen capital. That that's a great great open question and thanks so much for having me on very excited to be here when we were starting to fund the whole thesis behind the fund was. We knew that there was gonna be a gap between the seed series. We sold explosion of seed funds. I first round floodgate and true. Was there early and soft tech and we knew that that was going to explode and we kinda guessed that the series would stay sane. So there'd be this event horizon between the seed in the series. We now call postseason but when we were brainstorming. This we didn't have a name and my partner rich melman who started electric arts back in eighty two. We were in a meeting and he said you know paul what we're doing is we're kind of building a bigger backstop for these companies. So we kinda were thinking okay. What's like so the next meeting we have is with this guy. Chad durbin chad. Durbin was the oh eight world series champion on the philadelphia phillies. He had the sports recruiting website called showcase you sports. He wanted to match high. School students to scholarships for for athletics. And we told them what we are doing. He's like so you guys kind to do for the startups do for the starting pitcher because was a bullpen relief pitcher and we're like yeah we should call it bullpen because we're the bullpen for the startups. And that's literally how we got the name. Because chad happened to be the guy in our office as we were brainstorming. Wow that's a good serendipitous story. So now let's go way back. We'll come back to penn but let's go way back. Maybe circa two thousand two or so and you had some ideas in social media about about working with mark. Pincus and chris law and and tribe. What was that about. And what did you learn. So tribe is the canonical successful failure story of silicon valley. We all lost all of money. Make no mistake. It was it was a failure in that regard but it was the successful failure. We were in the right pond. It led to the formation of zinger. It led to the formation of aggregate knowledge and god knows how many other social media companies that have now been formed after that for example one of my product managers at aggregate knowledge went onto form scope. Lead the game company in la so the lineage of successful failure from tribe is significant. What were we doing at trump. We knew that social networking would be a better way to solve problems and pink is original. Idea was socially network classifies to take on craigslist. Would be a great idea. Wouldn't you rather do business with someone who you knew they were. As opposed to the random person shows up to your house with a check to buy your bike and we never figured out right. We tried a bunch of times and some things work. Some things didn't work. We became the burning man crowd. If one a group to go to burning man tribe. Was your place. We ended up being in nici community. Never figured out the seat audience but we knew so much about what was driving social media. Why people went how to target people and so the targeting became aggregate knowledge. The what else to do became the games at zinger and so it was. It was one of the most important things. I did in my life even though it was a failure. Wow amazing start okay. So let's fast forward to aggregate knowledge which was backed by kleiner perkins well-done. So i guess that one was just going to be smooth sailing right. It wasn't quite. i will tell you. It started off charm though the first year or two. We couldn't have done it any better. You know we went from two people. In the bedroom to do a couple million dollars in revenue. Inside of the year life was easy. Original business model was using social kind of data to do better recommendations and personalization and we land at the big accounts right out of the gate washington. Post the new york times overstock on the commerce side and it was just a charmed first year or two and then quickly oh crap everyone can copy us really really quickly and boy. They did and we went from being the only game in town to literally having a new competitor spring up every week. And we're like oh this is going to be a lot harder than what and then correct me. If i'm wrong you got a double whammy which is up. Came the two thousand eight financial crisis right so oh six and seven we could. We could do no wrong. No six and seven so tribe was oh to throw five. We started knowledge. Oh six and seven charm. I two years great investors any combs from kleiner couldn't ask for a better investor and then the wheel. Start coming off renewals or slow. The market is saturated competitors are showing up all of a sudden the product that i'm charging a million dollars for i can't get one hundred thousand dollar newell. I go into a board meeting in january of. Oh eight and i tell randy randy. It's not working like the first two years. Were a false positive. I'm sorry randy told me he's like look you're smart. You got a lot of money in the bank. We love your team. Go figure it out and in that go figure it out. Six months is when the financial collapse happened in the summer of eight and so we had we had the lucky break of no one can carrying about us so the nice part and we wrote this off and it got published was the recession basically saved the company. Because since everybody wrote us off and didn't care we were given the extra time to figure out how to pivot the company into the advertising and targeting technology that we're a great act in an ultimately led to a great outcome but if the financial crisis hadn't happened and everyone forgot about us the company probably would've gone under wow and so do you when founders who are navigating two thousand twenty with pandemic and all kinds of challenges. What kind of advice do you give them. I tell them out story. Go listen you have to. You have to play the hand you're dealt and if the hand you're dealt is wow covert has shut down. All of my offices and i was going to open a brand new warehouse but wait a minute. Everyone's at home and can't wait to use my product. You gotta go figure it out. My story was everyone forgot about my company. So i had time to reinvent myself so you have to take this in view this as no matter. How difficult hard it is. It's an opportunity for you. Must look at it as an opportunity. You must figure out how to leverage it in some way and yes. It's a horrible situation. People are dying. Restaurants are shutting down. Main street is literally getting killed right now. I'm involved in food and beverage project right now and it is just depressing to work with people who are in that industry like in venture. It's great we have a portfolio of risk. But if you own a single restaurant that's your livelihood. That's that's your job that your career. That's your ego so we are fortunate in the venture business that we can kind of reinvent ourselves so easily so please take this as an opportunity to figure out how to make your business better on the backside of this and it's a shame that a lot of non venture businesses in main street. Don't have the opportunities that we do so now. Let's fast forward to two thousand ten. Congratulations on a successful exit of aggregate knowledged in new star. Is that rate. And but then it's two thousand ten and you're thinking about venture and how was the ecosystem different than today. Remember twenty ten. There are literally somewhere between twenty and forty seed funds in the entire country. It's one hundred forty. that's it. I was really opie opium first round capital. So i got to watch that from the ground up. Very lucky break. I became an l. P. and like two thousand five or so and another funny mark pincus story. This guy named mike. Maples called in a favor to come to silicon valley. From austin and mark pincus was supposed to spend the week bank playing tour guide to him. This is in the early in the kind of wind down days of tried the early days. Zingo in aggregate knowledge pincus calls me. I don't know who this guy is. I'm going to tahoe. Can you go meet him. And mike and i have been best friends ever since. I was the lucky person to fill in for mark. And so when mike was growing floodgate he asked me to become one of the partners ultimately and became his partner. And it's been a great partnership but he offered me the job and i was like. I don't wanna be a bench your purse. I'm to start my next company. He's like paul. you don't understand. The business is changing. There's me and there's just quasi a and there's koppelman but this whole new wave is going to happen your data science. You need to start thinking about venture because the whole industry is going to change over the next five years and mike was dead right and we went from twenty to forty two two hundred and now we're over a thousand and that's crazy. It's amazing so this a parallel universe where you and michael partners out there and it was funny. Because i thought turned out. I is it like you. Venture people are weenies. I don't wanna do that. I'm an entrepreneur. Like i'm not gonna sell out like i don't want to do but then what happened is he. Got me thinking about bencher. Like an entrepreneur like start from blind sheet of paper. Don't don't just go build a fund like what's broken in the business and that got me inspired. Because i'm going to be a partner at a venture fund i'd be like. Oh my god like please don't ever introduce me like that. That's insulting right like you introduced me though as a founding. Gp of a new and innovative idea like that's-that's for me. I'm an entrepreneur. Still that was the kind of realization between away. Eight nine and ten that. Yeah if i could start from a blank sheet of paper and start a new kind of fund that would be up my alley but joining an existing fund. That wouldn't suit my personality. Got it and so you had an insight about the post seed phase in. Can you talk a little bit. About what characterizes that phase so it was just a simple math problem and it was something anybody with an hour of work to look that if you have twenty or forty seed funds and that goes from twenty or forty two hundred. That's what we model. We guessed it would go to two hundred and you have the same number of series eight funds. You would have a lot of promising companies that essentially getting raised enough money from the cdc go system and you wouldn't want to kill them because a lot of them were going to turn out to be winners. They just needed another year. So you two million in seed because it was cheap and easy instead of five million in series. What happened if you need it. The other two and so we just pencil that out we said well what have we went into business to identify those companies that need the extra two million bucks even though it got cheap to get the first two and sure enough. A lot of these companies existed everything from a fan dole to an upset to now in our later portfolio and oculus grove consumer companies enterprise companies. And the knock on our motto in the early days was. Yeah paul. that's a cute idea. But on the won't be any winners. All the winners will be identified quickly. And you'll pick among the losers. I'm like no because you raise the million or two million less than you should have doesn't make you a loser. Actually you might be the most successful company in the whole batch. I'm happy to give you another million or two million bucks on the backside. Having seen the whole first two million dollars get spent like wait a minute. I think might get the better deal. And that was the that was the best. The bet was we have as many aces in our deck as the ones that immediately went to series and now ten years in with a lot of billion dollar outcomes that part of the decks got a lot of good cards in to an is that gap in proceed still existent or how is how the ratios changed with. A thousand and great question. It's worse now than we ever predicted. We're going to two hundred funds and study state and it went a thousand funds the democratization of the front end of the funnel. Which i think is one of the most awesome thing that's happened. In the past decade more people got to become entrepreneurs more different kinds of people more businesses that no one said we're going to be venture businesses founders. Who didn't go to the fancy schools who grew up in cincinnati and started their companies in orlando. They started getting money. Because see funds got created in orlando and in cincinnati so so we overshot by such a huge margin by going to over a thousand that more and more companies were able to read seed but not get the series so the gap is maybe an order of magnitude bigger than we predicted. Pencilling it out. And mike's office. All those years ago amazing so now fast forward to fund five and one hundred and thirty million dollar fund and what is the definition of the company. You're looking for who should come talk to you. Amazingly it hasn't changed much in ten years. The numbers are slightly different. but they're pretty similar accompanied. It needs to see me has raised. Three ish million dollars in seed is somewhere between ten and twenty people is making about a million dollars. A year is burning about one hundred to two hundred thousand and went to the series eight firms and they said you know what you're doing pretty cool. Let's show me two more quarters of growth like that. And then i'll write you a big check and if you're a ceo in you're hearing this you know exactly what i'm talking about is you're sitting there. You're like i don't get it. I'm so close. But yet i'm so far away. Why does no one want to get me. Another three million bucks if because the funds one right i checks in series eight funds wanna write big checks so what happens if you need another small check. There is a persistent ongoing gap or exactly these kinds of companies and we are amazed that we still have so few coinvestors. If there's one thing. I lament the ten years in so few people still do. We do which in general as a competitive landscape. That's awesome but having a couple more co-investors probably be a good thing. Got it so in the case you're funding founder in a three million dollar posts seed round generally. Are you alone or is it with angels. Or how do you think about your average ticket size. Maybe so we'll end up writing as a four million dollar around so it's ticked up a bit so now our average round is more like four instead of three. We'll write a two and a half million dollar check into that former dollar round and the other million and a half better come from your insiders or we know what they think about the company it tends to be uh as the lead catalyzing the insiders to double down. Because they like it they know. It's a long-term winner but needs some extra money. We would love it to maybe sometimes do bigger five million rounds to from us to from a third party and a million from the insiders but quite honestly we rarely have investors we will sometimes get a strategic a salesforce comcast have been common investors but traditional venture funds rarely are investors interesting. And you take a board seat. We try not to and the reason is not because we don't care about governance. It's we want to go in there and coach the ceo. We wanna be the trusted adviser ceo. We want the two. Am phone call. And by the way if a company that has a well formed seed syndicate. They've aboard that's already functioning. They have an investor seat. They have a ceo see. They had the common seat. I don't need to touch that. Let me come in and be evaluated observer. Let me pour some gas on the now expanding sales whether it's a funnel or direct consumer company and let me coach up the ceo as they hire the rest of the management team. We found not to be a very very powerful formula. Sometimes we have to go on the board because the board was poorly formed in the prior round. But that's not our preference gotta and you've mentioned that you look for companies. That are far afield misunderstood. Tell say more we love our off by once and when we say off by one so by stage posted you're off by one by category. You're still doing grove. Collaborative you're doing e commerce in two thousand sixteen when amazon's gonna kill everybody. Nope sorry. i don't care that you're from a fancy school in san francisco. You're in the wrong category. That's another off by one off by ones that other one faneuil from fund one a husband and wife. Founding team edinburgh scotland. Imagine that that wasn't a real good check the box for the founder background and then of course finally geography plenty of our companies are in places like cincinnati or seattle and so either by stage by background by category or by geography. You are easily overlooked by the venture ecosystem. Come see us have a big chip on your shoulder and we're gonna love you and you also say you dive deeper into data that most funds in order to unearth hidden gems. What's that about. That's right and by the way that's so excited. An lies joined us. She was data consultant before she became our general partner just hired her of tremendous asset. Because there's a little bit of art and science to what we do if you wanna find an unloved gem. You gotta actually crunch a lot of data. You can't just do that on pure gut if you're getting cold. Emails from lincoln from companies in seattle. You better out a way to quickly triage the data and by the way we do that we look at companies that are cold. Emails unlinked in from seattle. You don't need a warm introduction to bullpen for us to take you seriously be an entrepreneur. With a business that's doing a million or so in revenue. We're gonna take a look. I don't care where you went to school or who your dad was or how you got introduced to me. And that's what we've gotten very good at an an is really taking it to the next level. Well congratulations run your business on. Send us the deck. We'll tell you in a week. If this is a business we think we can invest in because we built a really good analytics infrastructure for identifying these unloved gems super. Well congratulations on hiring an and you have said she's data scientist but not a data dogmatist. That's right yeah you just own an aunt. By the way i'm built the same way. I'm a phd. Dropped out in high performance computing and predictive modeling. Some data. just like an. She did her. Phd work at harvard are the same kind of stuff. But what you learned from rich melman who we review as our emotive partner at the fund. Sometimes a business either is going to work or not work as he says. It's the physics of the situation and don't walk into a meaning. Goes paul. the data's says this but that's never gonna work or the data says this and it has to happen. And so if you become too manic mannequin. Say the data tells you the whole story. That's how i can guarantee you'll you'll drive the car off the cliff. The art must meet the science. There has to be a creative artistic judgment in the data that you look back and getting that blend right is the magic of bullpen. Having the emotive person like rich. The data person like me and an all in the same meeting. We think that's where the real magic happens eight. And what's the right time for a company to pitchy when you're banging your head against the wall because you need two to three million more dollars and no one takes us seriously. That's when you need to come but like you don't need to come see us six months in advance to create a relationship with us. We don't need that deals before covid on zooms with founding teams that we literally had a week or two all remotely spothero ordeal in chicago. One of the leaders and on demand parking obviously at a tough year because kobe positioned well for great growth in twenty twenty one because gained market share. We need to do that. Deal all on zoom. And i remember someone saying paul. You've never met the founder. You really gonna do that. I can't tell you how valuable it was to have one under our belt like that when twenty twenty one rolled around we had muscle memory for you have to make a quick decision. You're not gonna be able to visit the office. You till friday go and yes we had more time in two thousand twenty one but it's really important that we are done deals like that so when coded came around and you couldn't do the office visit which by the way i still love. We were not afraid to do it. Where i think a lot of other firms were like. Oh my god. What are we going to do right. And do you have any advice for companies that are pitching you numbers and data. Don't show me a product demo. Don't give me the fancy story. Don't tell me where you went to school. Put up the excel spreadsheet of how. You're running the company for the next six months. i'm either gonna look at cell twenty-three and say bullshit or not. And that's our investment process. So a lot of ceos find our process a little bit jarring because it's the opposite of most most firms. Who are you where you from. What's your vision of the future will look your seat. Fund has already told me your interesting right. You've money from complement at first round. Check that box. Show me how you're going to turn the crank. I wanna see column. Twenty six two quarters from now. Do i believe that number. Yes or no so. Our process is literally in the muck in the weeds of the operating plan. And if you don't know you're operating plan please don't call us because you're going to get your butt kicked in a meeting in our office and how do you think about advising founders for series a. Because some people say the goal posts are shifting for series. How do you think about the the milestones. Keep getting higher as the series funds. Get bigger in their checks. Cut larger the milestones. Keep getting further and further out and so training. Our ceo's for what is needed for that next round is a big part of the bootcamp. We put them through so it's also why we like to be the ceo advisor not the board member. Let me tell you what you need to do to play this game. Let me show you how to perfect your pitch and oh by the way you came in and pitched us on all this number stuff. The next investors going to want to hear all that vision product demos stuff. so let's. Let's go do that now. But you didn't need that for us. Create an are there. Rules of thumb founder should have in mind for series or. Is that a dangerous trap to fall into is try to meet some heuristic for april. I think some heuristic are necessary. But they're by no means prescriptive. But if you don't have some sense of where the goal posts are you have no idea. If you're in the ballpark so what we tell our founders of the phone. Let's say you're an enterprise software company you come in to see us. You're at a million dollars. Run rate you had two quarters really great growth. You're to sales people. You wanna go to twelve. I wanna help you go two salespeople to twelve. I want you to go from a million in revenue to five million in revenue over the next eighteen months because if you grow three exit year and you kind of go from two to twelve people. I know there's gonna be a lot of bidders on the backside because if you're growing that fast and you're at least a five million run rate and you got a sales team at twelve. Almost everybody. Who's an enterprise sas investors gonna take you seriously and sure they might do it at four or they might want to wait till eight. But i've given you enough guidance. You how to run the company for the next eighteen months and do certain funds look at a company. That's done say a seed and a preceding or in a seed differently than other companies are are no are they. Do you feel like they're looking at all these. What is the opportunity in front of them and it doesn't matter as much the cap table history of company. You doesn't now. It did ten years ago when we were doing our little trick in ten and eleven and twelve. It was weird. Well was this again. It was is it kind of a bridge or is in an unloved. Jim and we're like no no guys. This is an unloved gem. It just needed a little more time. This is not a six month bridge to nowhere which appear but once we got good at that and the messaging around it and once we had roundtrip entrepreneurs who were telling the story that the bullpen round was the building scaling round of the company then the series a investors are like. I don't care that they did appreciate a seed in post. It doesn't matter there's eight million in the company. They got the five million in revenue awesome. I don't care that they did. Three or five. Rounds is very very different ecosystem now. Ten years later in the early days there were some weird signaling. But not anymore. It's how much money did you race to get to where you need. Oh you did it. Not many rounds. Who cares and do you have any data. Because i feel like i've seen this in the industry on what percent of companies do oppo seed. Now it's really high. And i guess it also depends how you define because some people are doing five million dollar as and some people would say that's not an a in twenty twenty but that's right so the reason bit of a garbage in garbage out to that because i'll tell you this we are in general the third institutional round in the company because there was five hundred thousand bucks and friends and family a two to three million dollar seed round. And we're actually the third round but wait a minute. What happened if you had a set of notes. In between am i the fourth round and so am i then the posted round and the notes were the seed round. Wait a minute you did. Two sets of notes and they converted into my round are all three of those rounds. The post seed round so there really is a hard accounting problem when you look at the data stats to say that was the that was the be that was the that was the especially when so many founders are essentially doing this rolling closed process in the early stages the become right and it may be more common. I think it's really interesting. Because i was rates at a time when we were advised to say only raise as much as you need to little buffer to get to the next inflection point in value and potentially because you're doing up around with many cases right in virtually all cases right from the seed round. This is actually great. Strategy for founders. Right raise more at a higher cap. Or and that's actually. I really really an insightful question. It was one of the big issues with if we were going to do down. Rounds and sidewards rounds at crushed the founders would founders come out and go you know the bullpen around was the most important round i did in the company they believed in me. So we knew that there'd be the sweet spot where there was a nice markup but plenty of room left for the eighth fund coming right there big check getting that mac and right was really what we're doing on the board mike. Maples office all those years ago. We're like there's room in between because the seat is getting done at six or eight. The postseason getting done at twelve or fifteen but the series fund wants to put twenty on sixty five. Wow there's a lot of room in there it's great you've had a lot of experience in your career hiring and i wanted to talk a little bit about some of your hiring tips including avoiding front runners. Oh yes yeah. Yes runners or dangerous. I don't know if me or bill campbell or someone in the kleiner perkins orbit coined that phrase. I don't remember exactly where it came from but it happened to me. At aggregate knowledge. Aggregate knowledge was the hottest thing in the world. Oh six and seven again could do no wrong. All the people who showed up to interview they had done their for years google. They were ready to do their next four years at the next hottest startup in town and we were at and you know what we stopped are telling. They hit the door and they were out quicker than i could. Blink and i never experienced that my career. I had never worked with this class of people who were i'm going to go from hit startup. Hit startup and you will pay me a lot and give me a lot of stock and my resume will be eight companies. That i was at the right time for and bill campbell and i we would have these conversations about martino. You got trouble. You got all these front runners when you were hot shit now. You're not you know what are you going to do. And it is really actually a hard problem to deal with because you do need some of that. Dna some of that been there done that really early out of google or facebook. Early phases of scaling. But if you get too many of them because you're a kid in a candy store and you can hire them all which is what we made the mistake of doing it. Aggregate knowledge if it's not all lollipops and gumdrops they're going to go to the next company because that's their mo and so a good balance a front runners and more. I don't know what a non front runners called. That's what we needed to have done. And it's advice. I'd give to my companies. You better have. People who believe in the vision are going to stick with you through good and bad times as well as kind of plug and play which front runner is. And how do you screen for that in interviewing. I'm not sure. I know. I got a couple things i look for. There's a certain resume sequence the kind of make sure and it's right when the four year vesting cliff and you were out at the last two Okay got it. So that's a hint. Maybe and by the way that's by no means a definite but that's the kind of thing you look at it and go. Oh this person sticks around three to four years goes to the next one. It's all blue chip investors okay. Where was the risk actually and then ask him questions about okay. Tell me what your risk profiles like. You say you're an early stage startup person you know. Tell me a time when the ceo came in and said the funding fell apart. And how did you respond. And if the answer is well that's never happened to me. And i'd be out while they probably told you amazing and you're obviously a continuous learner. You're an innovator. How do you keep up in today's world. How do you continue learning. There's a lot of sources as a lot of data out there. What's your go to. So i think on the data sources side the really are it's. It's such an awesome time to be an entrepreneur. I started at my first company. There was no internet right. I'm sitting in my bedroom and suburban philadelphia. I'm trying to figure out a start a company. There's this thing called bulletin board networks. Right i'm walking onto compuserve to find out about how to start a company. All you entrepreneurs now we're starting to i company. How you that you can read fred. Wilson's blog you. Can you can look at matacos twitter. I mean it's just amazing all the resource you can read granny commissars book getting the plan b. So that side is awesome. And you don't need any help from me. But i think the place where my entrepreneurs need my help is. I got to stay sharp. If i am. Just now a bunch of platitudes. Because i have histories from ota with pincus in an oh eight with combs are in an o. Eight with a ten with bill campbell. What what good am i a decade later. So i stayed sharp. I started a film company a few years ago. Actually at a film released in theaters a year ago. I'm working on a new sports. Betting which is half sports betting benue half casino and so i've taught my limited partners. I'm gonna continue to stay in some small portion of my time as chairman a beast kind of endeavors. 'cause i gotta stay sharp. If i'm not at the front lines of solving entrepeneurship endeavors. I think the half life of my knowledge just going away and making sure every year. I got my hands in a new thing that i'm i'm a part founder of rama chairman absolutely. I need to do that because without that. I don't think get to serve my. Ceo's the right way super and last question because a lot of emerging managers that listened to this podcast is well. How would you advise somebody. Who's thinking about starting a fund whether it's rolling fund or or some venture fund main thing is get into business and an absolutely fake it until you make it here and i don't mean bullshit people i mean do your first deal beg borrow and steal. Do what is an sp you would on. Angel syndicate do three deals as a syndicate have one anchor investor due to deals with you. I know a lot of emerging manager like look. I'm doing one hundred million dollar fund. I'm not going to do a deal until i do. My fifty million dollar. I close with geez. I did that i would still be raising my i i it would be ten years later and i would still be searching for enough money to get my fifty million dollar fund. We did eight million dollars in a rolling i close. We deals as though we were a hundred million dollar fund when we had eight million bucks that we didn't really even know eight million bucks couple of those people. I was nervous. That they wire the checks. So you gotta kinda go into business and the old school fifty percent in the first close up against the target sure that applies to some small number of managers. But if you really want to be an entrepreneurially-minded first time manager you better act like you're in business and do it on small money the way that your startup companies are doing it created vice and any other things. I should have asked you that. I didn't know this has been great. I really appreciate the the trip down memory here because it is important especially in an environment like this in two thousand twenty where no-one no-one no-one had cove it on their scorecard. For what would happen in twenty at the end of two thousand nineteen anybody who had twenty twenty s. Sure pandemics going out of bound. Okay you win life because you've got that but we did go through the tech bust of otsu. We went through. I want to. We went through nine eleven. We went through the oh eight oh nine debacle and you know what the third time you see the debacle. You set of muscle memory about how not to lose your cool when everything is crazy around you and so the combination of experience from seeing seeing it before with some cool hands applying it to the current timeframe as i've said in other interviews. Hey entrepreneurs your this is your this is your nine eleven this is your debacle. You gotta figure it out. People like me are here to help. But you gotta figure it out good words to live by europe and on that really inspiring. No paul. thank you so much for making time. thank you. You're an early stage entrepreneur. We'd to hear from you. Check us out at village global dot.

rich melman paul mike mark pincus Torbert co Amanda wayne paul martino ado paul Chad durbin chad chris law kleiner perkins randy randy opie opium first round capital koppelman cincinnati
How to tell the story of your startup with Camille Ricketts and Carmel DeAmicis

Product Hunt Radio

35:49 min | 2 years ago

How to tell the story of your startup with Camille Ricketts and Carmel DeAmicis

"Hi, brian. It's Ryan Hoover, your host radio where I'm joined by the founders, investors and makers shaping the future of tech. Today's episode includes two experts retailers who happen to be also good friends Carmel de me's and editor aka word whiz at fig MMA, which is start up it's reinventing how people design just last week. They announced that forty million dollar fundraise led by sequoia prior to joining fig month Carmel is at hand. It's actually where I I met her. She was the first journalist right about product early days later on. She went to write a gig, home and Recode as well. Camilleri is another friend in expert storyteller. She recently joined notion hot sort of this building at all when workspace for your notes dachshunds dues perjuring notion that she spent nearly five years at first round starting in leading their content marketing efforts, you probably read some of her first round review articles. They're excellent highly recommend them earlier in her career. She was at the Wall Street Journal venture bead tesla. Kiva in the White House on the podcast. We talk about how founders can tell us strong story to the press and the public the importance of taking time between jobs to find the right role. And we also talked about the weird world of talk again. I know, but before jumping I wanna give shot at tour sponsors. Do you? Remember a time when he started working for yourself. It was certainly no small feat, and you've been insanely busy ever since our friends at fresh books are here to make things easier for freelancers like you the fresh books invoicing accounting software, designed to save you time and all those terrible administrative tasks credence end professional looking invoices in thirty seconds and get paid two times faster with automated online payments also file expenses with eased. Keep them perfectly organized for that lovely tax go to freshman dot com slash Protestant. And enter Protestant radio in the how did you hear about a section to get started? The sexual wellness space is booming. But most innovation and investment has been focused on the body rather than the brain Dipsy is changing that by taking a mind, I approach to female sexuality with an app for short sexy. Audio stories which makes sense considering ninety percent of women use mental framing to get turned on the by size audience stories are perfect for solo or couples listening to set the mood. Spark your education in start intimate conversation headed if she stories dot com slash product hunt. That's DIP SEA stories dot com slash product want to download the app. The first stories are free. Hello, everybody. I'm here with two friends of mine Camille in Carmel to seize. How's it going? I see to seize. I don't think I knew how to close commune Carmel shit. It's true. It's got a nice ring to it. Twinsies. I think you would also make a good podcast hosts like if you to podcast together. It would go in some interesting directions. I know I know there were there were conversations prior to recording that we can't talk about on on the Mike Camille telling you about your yourself. What's your background? I'm known you since early first round reviewed as I think. Yeah, it's been a while SIA about five years ago five or six years ago. I started working at first round capital and developing a blog called first-round review, which turned into kind of a home for a lot of different people's stories. And how it is that they figured out what it is that they're doing and how they've been successful various things and then lash one of the most respected blogs in the tech industry. Zac, people talk to me about it all the time. And basically like be more like Camille come on. Now. I'll tell you this. You don't seem to believe me. The mutual fandom is already starting. I took the last year off just to kind of figure out what I wanted to do. I knew I still wanted to do storytelling him some respect. And now I've landed at a company called notion than people are catching onto does a lot of like productivity task management team management, personal note, taking beautiful brand and I'm excited to tell their stories. Now, you're a month in about a month. And yeah, and this is the first time I've ever been at a tiny company and the first time that I am like the marketing person as opposed to like the person who writes things, so we'll have you soon. They also make right things. There's some writing of. Yes. The word used to describe yourself. The keeper of words per of the word. Potter roll or doesn't it sounds like keeper of quidditch? The keeper of the words, it's even better. Oh, for sure you're a keeper of words, tell us about you. My name is Carmel. I also used to be a reporter back in the day, which is how I meant both of these level humans, and I now work at a company called sigma doing a role very similar to what Camille does notion is designed tool the runs in the cloud, Google docs meets design, essentially and retaken ova both both notion in fig Mer like good examples of like the future of you'd would have a better. The keeper of the words would have better words to describe it. But in my mind, it's sort of a future of online collaboration for teams in different ways. Figment more design, focus notion more, I would you say, I guess words focused or text documents task management like that kind of thing for sure databases and ironically, both of our companies are obsessed with each other like, no. Shen was built from its earliest days when it was two people in fig Ma and figure has recently notion just spread like wildfire inside all the teams are using it. I feel like there is just like those folks over there sort of I've at both places. Yeah. And there's also like when I met when I talked to Ivan and came over 'cause I'm writing a profile about I've notion, I realized that there's also this similar trajectory of like being obsessed with tech history. And that informing the culture of the company like notion, they have pictures of Bart fig Ma threw a party on a Sunday. To celebrate the exact fiftieth anniversary of the Engelbert famous mother of all demos that was sort of like amazing the beginning. I don't even know you'd probably be able to like talk about it better than I could. But literally this guy like demonstrated the mouse for the first time, and he headed overhead that like worked with like oil and a windshield wiper to like, so various brag. It's very it's makeshift. But it's your tech history. And both of the CEO's of the companies we work for like obsessed. Yes, I think they also have a lot of mutual fandom of each other Dylan Ivan shit was doing are even doing thing. I would totally it would be dense and historical and. It would be for the for the for the tech wonks of the audience. So let's talk. So a lot of people on the podcasts are founders. They're like wanting to start a company you've indifferent roles as a reporter Carmel. And and Camille as I mean, again, you've done it partner too. I was. Footsteps essentially in my life, go on and now, I'm following yours. Surely gonna teach me how to do this job really excited about it this great. She both Yvo seen both sides where you pitches you've seen a lot of pitches from startups in companies, but then you've also been the one to craft the story in the narrative of a company. I don't know what tips you have those that are trying to figure out. How do I describe what the hell I'm building? Because I see a lot of founders. They have a hard time actually, our ticketing what they built because they're too close to it. Sometimes ticks around how to approach that how to tell your story. Yeah. The one thing that I saw first-round now I'm experiencing first-hand is that it's easy to tell a story that company where just sort of comes out as a collection of features. Or you're like, here's all the things that the product as whereas probably at least, I'm I have this theory that the better way to tell the story is like here the outcomes that your audience actually wants and how do eat emphasize those and then map the features to those as the primary points to the highest level points as opposed to like what we do this, and this and this and hear all the great things. So understanding what you're. Wants out of it. And then letting that guide the way you tell things that's just a theory. I'm developing. Yeah. And I think exactly what you just said like letting your like figuring out what your audience wants to hear because figments design tool, and so the designer audience is a really specific weird audience in terms of what they want. And when you talk about the benefits they almost react to it. As though it's bullshit, like they're like, I don't wanna hear about how you're going to like test like improve your like ROI conversion, blah, blah, or whatever they're like, I wanna know that you have this prototyping functionality and get in the weeds on wire different wire better. But I agree with you that like most other industries wouldn't be like that. And so you do sort of have to feel out the audience and other than immediately comes to mind when you say that is that all the companies that I think of shy away from narrative tension, like companies are afraid to admit when things are hard or even like, if they have a competitor. Or if I mean, anything that's like. The obstacle that they have to overcome. They almost don't want to admit that. But that's what makes for a really good story. And so we just pitched our fundraising and like when I pitched it to tech crunch. I was like look there's a story to be told about the design tools arms race that's happening. And a lot of companies would away from that. Because he'd be like, why do we wanna highlight our competitors point out that a lot of people are tackling the space, just like, no, that's actually what makes it an inherently interesting story because otherwise who cares about one companies fundraising they want to know what it says about like the larger industry and trends, and what are happening. And luckily like Dylan, our CEO is like varies to working with me at this point. And so he doesn't always let me lean into the tension for the most part. Let US Super good point. And also just it's really good about portraying the humanity of the people that actually work at the company as opposed to like, this is just a tool that it's compelling for people that like there is somebody who's being thoughtful, and and very human behind the scenes. Like one thing that I really appreciate about notion is that we're often in in various channels being worse. Oh, sorry. This feature is late or, you know, this is the reason that we are taking time to do this. And I just think that that's very respectful of the audience way. Being like, hey, we know you waited for this a long time. We wanted to get it. Perfect for you. It wasn't easy that kind of thing, and it makes people a little bit more attached and feel more bonded volts. We we need to do more of this in early prototype. We sort of we call it like building public were shared mockups of things that working on. And we got a lot of good feedback. And the feedback was helpful. But also, the community was more involved in more excited about what we're building because I felt sort of invested in you've done profiles customers, and people that have used CIGNA's that how do you like, I know showcasing examples or how do you try to create compelling story? Whereas you could say notion uses fill you should use it to like you have to tell more of a story than that. Right. God. Well, so there's a difference. Between we do more traditional customer case studies, which I don't do. We someone else manages it. We've a freelancer who does them and like I've been very suspicious of them. I've been like real. Do we just need this kitchen sink, this company just loves everything about but sales and other people inform you that we do. And I trust their opinions since I've never worked at a company before. But when I write a story like the notion figments story, I oh my God. I spent so much time on it. And maybe that's not a good use of my time. But I really try to be like what's going to make this interesting beyond? The fact that notion uses fig MMA, and that requires not actually going that in depth about notion using sigma, especially 'cause notion is small enough, and you can speak to this that you guys still sort of use it in an ad hoc way. It's not like these huge. You know, Uber and square these giant systems developed for how the us figure that like other people can learn from a need, but notion it's bit more like brainstorm, ad hoc, Ivan, the CEO jumping in with people and riffing. And so what what makes that story. Interesting. And ultimately, what it came down to was actually like, I don't want to the notion stories Camille should tell it. But the early days when it was just. I've been and Simon. Yes for you can tell the entire off. This is the company year definitely notion Ivan has been grinding on this for like five years, which was one of the reasons I decided to join the company that I was so taken by his grit. Yeah. And his vision for this thing. But yeah. Him and Simon there was a year where they really went back to the drawing board and thought about what this tool should be for everybody. You can tell the figment participation in the store. I'm not sure I'm privy to that. But I know that definitely played a huge role in like thinking about how the brand should look and feel which is one of the key things about notion that people love we were just talking about the illustrations in the each employer teammate at notion has their own kind of character like illustration in black and white very Connick. And smart it stands out for soon, Twitter and other other networks, it's a really subtle way of promoting your brand and kind of building identity rounded that I haven't seen other companies use like very infrequently. UC consistent theme around like the way that the team is presented not only on the about page, but also on social and other channels. I love stations, and it doesn't fit fitness brand at all. And it makes me really sad because I feel like it totally humanizes and gives like I'm a huge emoji over user like fig Mus couch thing as overuse well from people don't love it. But. I think it was just the moti- mode. You mody? I'm like it. Just makes it more interesting. But yeah, so the fig MMA part of the that notion story is literally like there was a point in time. We hadn't even launched to the public and Dylan NAR CEO and was playing stats on like the most like the users that are like most active in fig, MMA and Ivan was one of them. And so he reaches out to Ivan. And he finds out that Ivan is basically spending nine teen hours a day in fig MMA. I believe it not sleeping, essentially. Okay. Sleeping like four hours three hours. Maybe and this was one like Ivan Simon were like trying to this is sort of one of those narrative tension moments like save the company like they built an early version on tech stack that wasn't developed mature enough. And this is actually what the story that I wrote wound up being about because it's the narrative tension, so it's interesting. It's not like other using figments. Like, listen to this crazy story this company that now all of silicon valley's you szeswith, including me. Oh, my God, those notion, I don't know if I've told. You that? It's a recent actually so happy. So they basically were like, okay, we're running out of money. We built it on this unstable tech stack. It's crashing on the time. We literally have to like fire, everyone and go travel abroad, and like fix it and rebuild it from the ground up with a different framework and Ivan being Ivan and Camille can speak to this. He is an intense, dude. You'd like talking goes, you know, it's like, you're not mess. He knows wouldn't around to do. Yes. We can curse in the podcast. We're all adults edgy Ryan runs an regime here. The other day does speak on something. And it turns out we have one hundred twenty people and now, and I f- bomb, and I'm like, I think it humanized you this was narrative tension. That's right. That's right. It was it was intentional. Various is what we're telling you guys are advice dropped the f. All of your vision in on I review whenever we would have an f-bomb in like a poll, quote that was always the one that was like all over Twitter every single time. Yeah. So it was as everything your homepage copy. You're out of this. We can nothing more you need to know drop them you both our companies are on the rise like rock and chips and Carmel you join two years ago, they were thirty twenty twenty one twenty crazy. Another thing is like, how do you do you decide where to join what was the decision process because everyone in their career changes jobs at some point. And it's the big question of next and what do I do next? And I did that pre product went through that whole process myself in how did you how did you decide? Step one of the processes, call your friend, Ryan Hoover and be like where should I go work, and then frantically neurotic, call him several more times, then call your friend, Camille Ricketts. A couple times have many conversations over a six month period and over think everything. Like. Yeah. Step by step pretty much right there. Just change the names a little bit. Yeah. That is definitely what I as. Well. Yeah. You did panic. Yeah. And I asked you what you thought. Yeah. We talked. Yeah. And what did I say, I just wanna get credit for this? Yes. What did I say? He was like, you know, there is this company called notion. Really? Record. Where's that referral bonus? Nice. But how did you? So you both time though to figure it out because a lot of people jump for one thing the next did you were you just talking to companies talking to people? How did you decide like what to do next? Was it? The team was it market kind of go through this like conversion funnel where like I'm just going to maximize activity at the top of the funnel by basically emailing. Anyone I know who might have some idea for me, and then you slowly try to winnow down and hopefully somewhere in there, you're thinking about like, what do I actually want my whole life to look like as opposed to just my professional life, or what are the types of personalities that? I know I really well with like those were the key questions that helped me along the way I did try to read this book designing your life, these Hanford professors. I took it to Bali with me. I was like I'm going to design my life. I opened it and it s all these really hard questions about like core things to my being, and I was immediately like, Nope. Too much. That's it. I'm going to read some Stephen. Yeah. So that didn't really helped and really factory. What color is your parachute? I also got like three chapters in like, I'm not ready. This. All right. I think in part because I don't know about for you. But for me, like I know that like my ultimate dream is to do some form of creative nonfiction writing like memoir typewriting and things and that doesn't need to be my fulltime job. But it's like that's going to be the thing. Where if I was if I died tomorrow, I'd be like two things one damn I didn't have a baby I wanna baby I'm gonna family to shit. I did not do creative writing. And and so I need to figure out how to carve out time for that. In addition to working fisa. And so reading all those things it's like, well I wanted to creative writing. But also I want to afford to live in the bay area with all of my friends, and that's one hundred thousand dollars college loans. Yeah. That's the thing. You're gonna figure it out. I'm working towards it. Good good directory. So thank you have Sesikwe used I around. It's a quail. See it's very exciting. Nice folks to be involved with I've heard of him they passed on our series B. So this is particularly exciting and Dylan closed around in like two weeks. So definitely felt like a turning point in the company where it's like, okay this happened in. But yeah, I think the way that I figured it out aside from like frantically calling both of you. And then like, I think about gifts I like sent you pictures because I was like, I hope you know, that your friendship means a lot to me, and I'm not just using you to figure out what I should do with my life, and then I wound up it was sort of what Kim said, I talked to a lot of places I did a whole week trial at one particular company that I didn't end up joining and I was looking for both. What is something I space that I think would actually be interesting to write about since these jobs that I'm interviewing for, and then what is the culture fit feel like an designed felt like, yeah, there's so many stories I could tell there and when Ivan a night interviewed which was like two and a half years ago long before. Interviewed at fig Ma it was just him and his co founder, and they were like in key. Oh toe. Still figuring it out. And it just felt like okay, I had so much instability in journalism. I want a little ability total early stage startup. One does a little bit more stable now when you're hundred twenty people changes quite a bit probably from when you were twenty. Well, we're ninety right now ninety okay. Yeah. Yeah. Selby one thirty three by the end of the year pantley. Wow. I remember visiting you like a month after you joined there because I we were like, oh, I can't wait to see you in your new digs and everything. And I was like what are you doing? You're like, I'm writing everything there's literally not word that publicly displayed about this company that I haven't been involved with still probably pretty really changed. Yeah. It was unclear to be how you were getting enough sleep. It was to me. And this was we were desperately trying to recruit Camille, and like I tried basically for two straight years. And then she went to notion fig Maceo texted me like one to notion I trust. Guy was the one who told her to go to notion but other than that ride. For you. Because when he was like to notion, I was like, I don't both of them that they should be teamed up and like of of of of of like I called that in that Boyce. That's how billing converge. Yes. The no code spaces matured quite a ton since I was a kid actually built like first website using dream Weaver nowadays, you can build advance web apps without reading code using bubble bubble launch on product back into doesn't fifteen now more than two hundred fifty thousand makers and companies have used bubble to build marketplaces. So from that works Sierra M'S in more inside their browser. Check it out at bubbled it slash product. To get started for free. Switching gears a little bit. I wanna talk about products proxy love. We talked about tick tock a little bit Carmel, and you publish your first tick talk what yesterday or this week. I am so embarrassed with how obsessed I am with us ABC for basically sixteen year old caused players. It's great. I don't know. It's actually describe to talk for those Dono for those that don't know this is like the next grams. Now whenever vine, it's the most. Yeah. Definitely took a bunch of like the vine stars when vine shut down, and it's like they've just moved to talk and most people think of it is just like, oh, that's the upper like teenagers lip sync because that's the ads that they always run. And there is plenty of that. But it's essentially like it's almost like an app built for the internet memes era of two thousand nineteen where it's these fifteen second audio clips, and it can be everything from like a monologue. That's kind of really dramatic or just a really catchy hook of a song. And then people record. Yes, there's plenty of lip synching, but they'll record videos to it. And it turns out like if you set music to pretty much any video if it's the right music and the right video is for Kim hilarious. And so I opened it at ten pm on a Sunday night in the middle of the fundraising stuff when I really needed to be getting my sleep. And I could not stop watching. I went to bed at three AM. But so far. I mean, I'm obsessed as Ryan knows I like a week ago on publicly on Twitter was like I shall never. Make talk just. Content of the dangers and the now one week later big I'm like brainstorming. Oh, my future tick talks, and it's just me and a bunch of sixteen year olds which feels like a little weird. And nobody that I talked to talk about except you Ryan is like likes it as much as I like, so good. It's even playing with I've seen it. Yeah. I'm in the consuming content. But probably I'll get to where you are that makes me feel so much better that you're just on it. Yeah. Like, I made my dad. Download it dad is a star on time does not. You know, basically set anything to the final countdown, and you've got a winner on tick tock that's the lesson here. So true. So you're love to talk is these themes in memes that kind of a crew and then people are riffing off each other. And so it'll be certain type of song will inspire certain type of action or certain type of behavior in starts to become almost like a punchline like domestic becomes the punchline. And I think it was Eric Eric thing on the podcast, maybe a month or two ago. He described it as tick talking in some like paint by numbers in the sense that the music creates this constraint the framework. Yes, exactly. So a six second vine in the beginning was didn't have music that wasn't good core. Focus it was just like six second videos, and and that was constrain and that was nice. But for a lot of people. It's like, well, what do I do for six seconds? I don't know. Whereas with this you see a kid do a thing with the song. I wanna do the thing that kid does too. And and then literally tens of thousands of people do the same thing except except that they all have. Volve it. So it feels like collaborative spontaneous creativity with strangers which is part of what I love about it. It's like theater, and I can't think of another app this quite like that. And I say, and I'll try not to talk too much about to talk 'cause we gotta get to Camille favorite app. But I will say that the trajectory that I love on talk is humans do something. Like, maybe they do a dance move, or maybe whatever humans do some mean to some particular clip of audio, and then it very quickly devolves on tick tock where then it's like pets are doing the me always a fun turn. And then you know, that something is almost played out when it turns into like inanimate objects doing the meetings. And so there's one where it was like, I think it was soldier boy where people would be like solely getting ready to soldier boy like putting something on their face and stuff, and then they would make a facial expression in just as the beat drops. They flash into like a screen shot of like a scene from a movie where they look exactly like the characters Merck cartoon or whatever and object, sometimes paper clip, well that was evolution. So I they were movies and TV shows then. It was like pets turning into like scenes for movies. And then it was like someone would be like putting their ponytail really up high and crazy, and you'd be like, okay. What's coming because? I know there's going to be a dropper. She looks like something good. You look like. And then it's like she's like a toilet plunder or something. Nice. So I feel like this is really indicative of human culture and the way that it's tracking. And you have your finger on the pulse. There should be finished have Chuck strategy stigma on talk, you take my not onto talk figure it out we've ban gifts in our slack. So I don't know whether because it was too much fun. I feel like designers like a very like they're like classy, you know. They're just like, you know, they're just like us. Fedex tick tock is just like chaos. Yeah. There's something where you could make lowbrow the new highbrow. I don't know. I just need to start a design trend is what you're telling me. Just start a viral design trend go forth and do it. I have the power. I could make words. Yeah. Be like this is how we're going to express ourselves. Only talk all of our product announcements tick tock. So you didn't understand it too bad? You're clearly not with raising announcement take talked to get the sequoia people will be in the tick tock, I feel like they'd be down first round as the one. We had true. We had Kleiner wrote. A poem about us being Gordon wrote a poem about series. See? So I feel like the VC's are down like little we'll crates edgy. The first round the first round videos been conic. But well. Well, Chris you have left actually it's the holiday video. I left right after we did our last one which was kind of like a celebration of ten years of us doing this type of thing. But yeah, it was such a cool cool thing the first rounded to be like, we're human beings, really loved fun. And what I love about that is that most of the lira are actually written by Josh Koppelman, which God what he won eight times. Even better has like an unnatural talent for writing song lyrics, and it's it's amazing feel he doesn't get to utilize that often enough in just the general course of his he ever come to you and be like what rhymes with bananas. I feel like shman. Yeah. No, very impressed. Just like the versatility of talents at that place. That's cool. Yeah. So what apper or you living right now, I'm gonna sound all fun compared to tick tock, and like all of this and pets and enhance actor. It's going to make my life better. Sal me pitch me. I want to hear it. I'm gonna recommended Athens gonna change your life from a professional standpoint, it's called superhuman, and it's become like the other half of my life with notion shoutout to overhaul who's the CEO and founder there. He's one of my favorite people, and they've just decided to make Email more delightful and more beautiful and faster than it's ever been before and human history, and it's completely changed my life. And so I keep even like this Millicent superhuman in my Email signature which of never done before in my life because I want more people to know about it. So yeah, why is good like what about because my Email? I was telling Ryan before we started this podcast. I just. Don't open my Email. That's my approach to Email management. I have not answered emails three months. Why why is this helpful? I think because like something about the design tricks you into feeling like it's not that overwhelming spacious, and you're like, oh this font. That's been linked designed just for this product is so great. I don't know it just like when you send one Email the next one pops right up. You don't even have to go and click into something else. They've just thought through a lot of those interactions that make it like really seamless to the extent that I had to set my vacation autoresponder like a couple of weeks ago, and I had to go back into g mail to do it. And I was just like I can't let my eyes, and so I had to send them feedback being like, you gotta get on this vacation auto responder thing. This is how little I am good or pay attention to my Email. I took this week off is Camille and Ryan no and on the car right over here. When I was looking for the information for how to get here. I realized that all these important emails had come in. And I realized I had not set a week. I'm sounding like really right now. I'm good at things that make sigma wanna keep me. But emails. Oh, it's distracting away from thinking about storytelling. Yeah. Yeah. I need focus right up for tick tock, which is the opposite of you. Can't exert all this writing muscle on Email ration-. I'm sure there's gonna be there's gonna some I inspiration in your next like pieces. Sure, I think I need to write about it. Honestly, because I just I haven't had this explosion of creativity. Where just so many thoughts and analysis like back when I was a tech reporter that was my job. I've I've been like consumed. I'm like writing things in my notes up everything I notice and think about in love about it. But disclosure, I feel like your audience needs a disclosure. It did get bought by like some Chinese company. So if you're on it, the Chinese government probably knows a lot of things about you. Like, you really like dabbing maybe that was about that inquired musically for round billion roughly, and you have a history history of penalty talk as interesting by dances is the believe the most valuable private company right now pre IPO company oh startup in. Right now, seventy something billion dollars. So their machine there's a whole group of people where they're like figure out how to use the status and they're like. I wonder if like the Chinese social censorship thing that they introduced where you can get like downgraded points. It's like people are like rating each other's tick tock, and the government's just like putting it in like, well, this person's not very good at taco only four likes. Mirror episode. It's like you need over seventy likes even stand in this time. Yeah, paulie is some people are, you know, it's a friend. She's fifty thousand followers and takes already in the course of three four five months. Maybe. Yeah. I will send you her name is Jessica I'll send her to talking not later, but she just has been like she acts as well. So he's like, we're just naturally, really? And and I need to step my game up. I've only created the couple took talks not that. Good doraville. Yeah. Yeah. Me and Susie my girlfriend. We've done a couple of them. But we need to step our game we need to compete with Jessica because she's killing us right now. I feel like you haven't in here an audience like you could become famous on talk so fast, just by like all helping make funny to talks, and then you can just tweet them. And then you'll be famous on. Let's figure like tech angle and some sort of tax appeal. Yeah. I'm anti brand for my talk because I don't want to be constrained right now. Chameleon? I could go forever launchpad for like a tick tock until. You heard it here. First hire me. Carmelo's to talk handle in the show notes. So check it out. Really? I literally do have a note. That's what makes for a good tick tock, and what makes for good tick tock comments. And it's like I write down like to publish right down like the Matic like think commonalities that I see among tick talks that are like really good like followed by like examples of talks anyways, a whole annual report of data on this content. Marketing this is what you want and from this good. This is good. All right. So what what can they find you on the internet other than talk? Anything you wanna plug coming up at notion? I'm at Carmel C A R E L D A on Twitter. I will be publishing soon. Hopefully, some kind of guidance to pitching reporters for startups because I do think that nobody knows how to do it, and our friend John Howard, basically like mind my brain for information. So Bruin, hoping publish something? Like that soon. And I might talk handle, I think. The same as my Twitter handle. But I think I'm gonna change it in thirty days to at miss pickerel. Which was my eighth grade. AM handle am I s brilliant PIC R N. So check me out over got it. This is really exciting that I get to be on this podcast with you pre fans. She's on the come up, and I am excited about it. Yes. Plug isn't it? I'm on Twitter at all rickets and notion just has a lot of cool stuff in the works. This is going to be a big year for us excited about it. Keep your eyes got sick. My jock stigma also has cool stuff. But we just had all of our big news. So nothing comes to mind. It's extremely cool. Our platform that'll be next are extensions. People be really pumped about that. On thanks for this is fun. I feel like we need to do another episode of just us like the Camille and Carmel episode in podcasts. We'll work on some sort of tick tock campaigns to drive distribution. Yes. Or writing a theme song and dance. Choreography? I don't know. We'll see an excited. All right thanksgiving on thanks. Thanks for tuning in what we've back next week. But in the meantime, share the podcast your friends on Twitter and tag guest here. If you're episode.

Mike Camille Ryan Hoover Dylan Ivan shit Twitter CEO Carmel founder Ivan Simon fig Ma reporter Wall Street Journal Dylan sequoia first round capital Kim White House Camilleri brian editor
Evan Brandoff: Co-founder and CEO of LeagueSide | #ThePlaybook 231

The Playbook

21:24 min | 1 year ago

Evan Brandoff: Co-founder and CEO of LeagueSide | #ThePlaybook 231

"On this episode of the playbook. I Have Evan brand off co founder and CEO of League side. And we're GONNA help you realize that the best thing you can have is when you have nothing to lose. Join me for all of this. More on the playbook. This is entrepreneurs the playbook each week. I bring you some of the greatest athletes celebrities and entrepreneurs to talk about their personal and professional playbook to success in what made them champions on the field and in the boardroom. I'm your host David Meltzer. This day melted with entrepreneurs the playbook and I have Choo entrepreneur here. Evan brand off he is the CO founder and CEO of League side. And I wanted to start in the most interesting part of what you do is so many. People have a HA moments in entrepreneurship and point. Zero zero one percent of them actually do anything and another point zero one percent that do something actually successful at it. What was your Aha moment in? Starting League side. So about six years ago I had recently graduated from the University of Texas and I was doing a fellowship. Program called In Detroit it was key part of the venture for America Fellowship Program. If you're familiar now is working for a tech company in downtown Detroit. I was one of the twelve people that was living in downtown Detroit. Yeah for Gilbert around. Exactly now it's incredible incredible and I used to love volunteering at youth sporting events one week and in particular. I was volunteering at a basketball tournament. Rasheed Wallace his son was actually playing. So she'd was there and I looked around the auditorium and realize there's no better way to engage with a group of families though when they're together watching their kids play sports and I thought back to my youth sports playing days my favorite memories. Mike speaks after the game as they sponsor. My baseball team is officer so we thought what if we connect thousands of community youth sports leagues and make it possible for regional national sponsors to tap into these communities. Help kids play sports? While simultaneously reach their target audience in a super engage way so that basketball tournament bows my Aha moment called Zubin. Here's my co-founder. Yeah and now. It's five and a half years later so talk me through that because I wanNA dissect how this happens because it's more common. Why people fail because they don't understand how long it takes What it took you know what those conversations were like so once again a Ha- moment now you kind of formulate the need and also the emotional attachment. Yeah so then you say to yourself. I need help. Why did you almost Zubin? His name was so. Why did you call him? Yeah so Zubin was also in the venture for America Program. With me okay. It starts with the five week training Brown Zuber's from Dallas. I went to the University of Texas. A lot of his best friends from growing up. Were my best friends in college. So we immediately hit it off realized that we had complementary skill sets He is a brilliant doer. He's extremely savvy. When it comes has great technical chops. I'm more of sales and marketing focused smarter than he is. No way is as much yeah. That's perfect yeah. So and and he's the man We used to have brainstorming sessions while he was in New Orleans and I was in Detroit a lot of terrible business ideas. Yeah but he was also volunteering. I use sporting events he felt that pain point as well. I called him with this moment. and he has resonated with him with his experience and youth. Sports being an athlete is entire life and volunteering in New Orleans and then fortunately it was time for applications for an accelerator program that we got accepted to And we have the feeling when you took that emotional. I got a great idea. What do you think immediately got excited? Yes and then you said okay. Let's apply to accelerator though. Your first choice is okay. Let's get this involved into a program so we develop it venture for America had an accelerator program partnered with first round capital in Philadelphia. Okay so We are fortunate to be accepted to the first class. We were hosted in Philadelphia at the first round capital. Office for three months. You have and we were talking before the show talking about how how. It's tough working and living in an incredible setup and then coming to terms with the reality of an entrepreneur. We were put up in one of the nicest buildings in Philadelphia for three months. And then after I sent to go figure it out and do that you a lot of people questions about accelerated programs in not even specifically about the one that you're in. What was your objective in perception going into the accelerator? Since you know you have a limited amount of time you know that you're in a first class environment. What were the key objectives that you had going in? What do you wish you would add? Is your key objectives going again? So my general philosophy with accelerator programs as you should go into an accelerator program when you're in a position to win that accelerator program and there are winners and losers in accelerator programs. The companies that do l and Demo Day are the ultimate winners right for us. This was more of an incubator. We just had general. Yeah and this was the nudge we needed in order to take that concept. Quit our jobs and go fulltime on League side And during that accelerator program. We got our first client We actually got applebee's and end smoothie king in the three months and realized that a Lotta Sports Leagues wanted to get sponsorships. And that was the additional validation that we needed tech. Continue down this journey and raise capital and so now you get out of the accelerate broom. Did you utilize relationships from the accelerator to raise money or just once again using your network and grit to go ahead and start that race? A combination okay. Venture America put on a Shark Shark tank style event with UBS so three senior employees at UBS Were the sharks in about five hundred. Ubs employees where we're in the crowd We went up and pitched and the winner was supposed to essentially just got a medal and five thousand dollars One of the sharks decided that he personally wanted to be our first investor He invested fifty thousand dollars. Which was able. We were able to turn into our first quarter million dollar res Just a couple months into starting league side and do you think. He invested because of one credibility to emotional attachment that he had the same experience. That you guys or three. The quantitative value that you displayed during the event or a combination thereof a combination of all three words such a fortunate in Lucky situation with League side where. We're an industry that we could grow a multi multibillion dollar company while simultaneously the better. We do the more good we do. Have the money we make goes back to Youth Sports Leagues and fulfils our mission of making youth sports more accessible so as he sees that dollars are shifting away from digital towards in-person tangible things. Everyone wants to figure out how to build one to one connections with their consumers sponsoring youth. Sports Leagues an incredible way to do it. We're solving that fragmentation and helping kids at the same time. Wow and then yeah for for him. Though did he expressed you. Were trying to get to the emotional side of a lot of times at first investor. You have the credibility and place and I was the quantitative analysis. Yeah but it's been my experience that that emotional side when you get someone that's just watching and said you know what I want to give you. Fifty thousand dollars is because he's having an Aha moment aligned with yours was that you get that feeling from him or expressed by him explicitly. Yes that's a great point that came up from from Greg. Mr Kennedy That he's like. Wow I've I've had this idea and that's what special what we're doing. It's not a novel anything novel way. We connect community youth. Sports Leagues across the country with regional. National Sponsors are tech platform. Automates it and shows results. Just the fact that. We're taking something that a lot of people have thought of and creating a marketplace doing it at scale to your point resonates a lot of people so a lot of people have those types of ideas You know that other people have thought about or wondered about. What do you think the differences between you and your partner that are able to be not just innovators people come up with these ideas and have moments and truly to be entrepreneurs someone that can take it to scale monetize it really big clients? Now you're growing very quickly. It's still has so much upside from where you started thinking. What do you think the differences between that innovator and entrepreneur to it's a great question And what Zubin and I often talk about is that we're really lucky that we were that we were fortunate enough to have the opportunity to be able to take this risk We both grew up With family is that we were able to pay for education We were able to get into the venture for America program and be put in a situation where we had downside. If if League side didn't work out we had families that we could go live with We had support systems and awesome. Yeah and that's because you're the first people that have been on here and I joke around all those things that you just listed out that you see as advantages we were talking before about perception and mindset of neutrality now and I truly believe in that neutrality of keeping things as with the least amount of interference or corrosion and people find that interference incursion so other people see. There's more risk other people see as they were given an opportunity because the income from those families that they have so much lose. How can I ever tell my parents? I'm not going to do what they sacrifice so much. You know. My Dad went to med school. My mom would the law school. I you know I paid for Private School. They paid for ut and now. I'M GONNA go in risk my great job that that are supposed to and this is literally to me the biggest interference for people that have you know a quality background and this is why gratitude is so important because I'm steps on a stage and I said who here grope and nothing and the kids who raised you know have people raise their hand and like oh good I feel sorry for the rest of you. Write your justifying your success. He had nothing to lose. Because that's what you saw and I and I think the most important thing that's come out of this podcast so far is that you're the classic illustration of mindset that so many people think the guy that grew up with nothing has the mindset Matt Higgins of the world. They've got a Gd talk about like they had nothing to lose and you sit here and with your mindset. You had nothing to us and that was your big advantage when I said what makes you an entrepreneur. The point is no matter where you come from what you have how much your parents have or don't have how mish loans you have or don't have you always have nothing to lose exactly right and I think the bigger lesson is no matter who you are watching out there. You have nothing to lose. You have nothing to lose because whether you're born into it or born with nothing nothing to lose because it's only you that are making up in your mind and you have friends that went to UC on scholarship or borrowed money and they're making the excuse the other way why they can't be accessible. Because I got up here loans. I got this I got you know my mom. I got to buy her urine dead anyway. You've got exactly so taking that consideration now that you have this mindset that you're so lucky which is a mindset by the way I look to me bullshit luck to me is people that are consistent persistent in the pursuit of their potential and have learned to keep practicing ending fear. And you're someone throughout your career that just practices ending fear and. I'm glad that you did now. The next step of the journey which everyone needs to learn from you is get funding. And now there's good pressure on you taking people's money you know Nice People's money like Mr Kennedy and others. Yeah that's real. That's real money in real pressure now. How how did you figure out taking it to the next level we scale a business right so I take in your blessed to take in the money? But now you've got to execute you really don't have great experience in Skilling executing money. What were the tricks to do that? So that phase really loved that phase and tear point. You articulated so much better than I do. But everything that ever happens in your life is neutral and it's up to you it's mindset if you react to it and you have gratitude or if you let it get you down and love hearing you speak to that on your show So my favorite phase of building league side was that phase when we had initial capital but the team was essentially just Zubin in me And at that point our biggest advantage. There's things you know there's things you don't know and then there's things you don't know you don't know and that ignorance was bliss for us because people would say you can't call verizon right now what are you doing we. You can't call comcast you're only two people but we didn't take no for an answer and would just knock down doors And that ignorance allowed us to go out and get an initial few big accounts And Go build a network of over nine thousand community. Sports Leagues across the country So that fees right. They're just going putting our heads down. Focusing on grow grow grow. Grow grow was a fun. Time of League side. What got more difficult as when the team started to grow In the early on you have to do everything so it's only what you need to do because if you don't do it then you can't build a company gets harder call. I called the ugly teen stages now that the company is larger. Like what can I be doing with my time? That accelerates and allows everyone else's job to be easier but I don't want to step on people's toes and do their job. It's interesting one of the EGO based emotions ugly teenager phase. Yeah is the need to be offended. I'm fifty two years old. I built huge. Businesses lost businesses bill businesses. And every time I get to the teenager stage that my biggest thing is that I have. This need to be offended. Like oh they they don't care about it or they don't care like I do. They have all these emotions tied to their performance. Yeah I can't believe somebody would lie cheat or steal or oversell her back and sell and you know my dad told me. I'm cursed with overhead and employees. Why did I do this But in the end once I get over the need to be offended to take my personal and say look. I'm here to allow people right to allow people to have an opportunity to grow this with me. This is why did it and do it for me. Doing it threw me for others for the communities for the companies. All those things. Do you ever feel as you scale really asked this like resentful different film. I would just be really honest. It's one of the things is I look back like I didn't mean to but I just felt so resentful sometimes like every employee. I forget like do this guys only make it forty grand and you know you're you're not. He's not running the business. Don't expect them but like I resented the fact that he went sacrifice or make the right choices or did not that no. Do you ever get resentful the only times. I got resentful as when I was paying myself. Forty grand it was being so else significantly more and they didn't have that ownership mentality which is a good segue and I didn't realize until recently how important core values are I used to think it was just something. Flashy that is wall art Core values and finding people that are like minded to an organization is so important and one of Our core values is leaks. Hiders are owners not renters So we are able to give our our team that ownership mentality by giving them task and allowing them to owners but also That mentality of the House to us is if you lease a car at the end of your three year lease when you turn it back in probably dinged up. You probably didn't get oil changes on time but if you buy a car. You're not missing oil change. You're taking your Sunday Mornings Tax. Your car you need to find a team and also enable your team to be owners and not a renter say. Don't have that resentful feeling towards the people on your team. I think it's interesting that you know. How resentful we can become. I've had that situation where my executives make so much more than I and and they're my like equity like he's not GonNa be worth anything if you don't have the right attitude and those core values truly determined the attitude and I have four values. I think people think I'm silly when they come in. But I probably spend eighty percent of my time when I'm in the office talking asking questions. Empowering people about gratitude forgiveness accountability which is ownership inspiration that neutrality of inspiration. Knowing where you're connected at how things come through you The don't know what you don't know side of things as a young. Ceo and Co founder is the most difficult thing. It can be great if you're a person who was born to ask. Yeah I teach. Ask Ask right series of questions of how you value but series of questions of you. Anybody can help me. And I I believe in you. Like zero's never I am never afraid of Zeros. I I don't know why maybe because I grew up with nothing. So what's the deal between ten bucks in ten million I just? I don't know what it is in my head. It's and I see people I've had PR guys in. When I started speaking at five thousand dollars they were nervous at five now. I raises the ten their nerves. A ten twenty two twenty then fifty. They're like I think the same. It's the same thing in my mind. Ask Yeah what are you afraid of now right? You still don't know what you don't know. Yeah some fifty two and I don't know what I don't know and it really excites me. I just know that I know a lot less than I thought. He did. At fifty two two so much already now like I knew Lillard. Yeah but what is it? You think that you don't know like where you need the most help. That's such a good question every day. You should podcasts. Asked really good questions. Yeah exactly top entrepreneur podcast. What do you guys think There's the more I learn the more I learned that I don't know good So the more. I assume that there's that I don't know if that makes sense But the biggest area that I'm focusing right now for personal growth Is Now the team is about to be twenty five people by the by the next year she'd be about fifty people This is all uncharted territory for Zubin. The me every time we hire someone new. It's the largest team we've ever run a company for so how so it keeps me up at night is not necessarily the zeroes in in my bank account. Or I'm doing but it's supporting for the rest of the team and not just making sure that leaks IDA successful but also league side is a place that people are prospering in their careers. They're learning they're happy So how to be a leader of a growing team that creates an environment that everyone wants to be at and is happy and thriving is as where I feel like the biggest area to grow. You're doing a great job. I can't wait to the people that I know because I'm really really impressed by Zubin yet. But I can't wait to meet him as well. We Have Evan brand off. He is the CO founder and CEO of League side. Is Dave Meltzer with entrepreneurs the playbook by hope you enjoyed this week's episode of the playbook as much as me on a personal note. I just wanted to thank everyone for making the playbook such a success. Don't forget to continue it by sharing subscribing and listening to your favorite episodes this Dave Meltzer with the playbook.

League Zubin Zubin Detroit CEO CO founder Evan basketball Mr Kennedy University of Texas America America Program David Meltzer Rasheed Wallace Dave Meltzer Philadelphia first round capital New Orleans
How to Become a Thought Leader

The Animalz Content Marketing Podcast

42:31 min | 1 year ago

How to Become a Thought Leader

"In today's episode, I pick the brain of animal strategist Katie Parrot and set out to answer one of the hardest questions in marketing. How'd you become a thought leader? Which is through the defining traits of truth leader wide requires more than adding the phrase Lincoln Bio. We discussed the idea of banning secrets as the fuel thought leadership. We dig into the five sources of thought leadership. We use a animals and we wrap up by asking. Is it really worth it? Spoiler. Yes. Yes it is. Hello and welcome to another episode of the animals podcast. I'm joined today by legendary animal strategists thought leadership expert, always online person Katie Para and she's cringing with every descript are used to say how amazing she is Hey Casey has. Well. He's already off to a horrifying start with with legendary but. Online I. Will I will accept that you can endorsed. I can endorse that label for myself extremely online for sure. High So good to have you here been wanted to get your ages. Today everyone wanted to pick your brains a bit about a topic that you do lots about country to you'll downplaying and that is thought leadership. Is. A big part of what animals does accompany is probably one of our most important types of content that we produce. I'll give you the Hondas types as well and you have literally written no quite the book but the very long blog post that was almost book length with the first draft you tendon and want to just chat to you about that. About concert of thought leadership, and hopefully give some help were tips for people that will not embark on thought leadership johnny. Instead one I, love about your blog post is something that I noticed I was very guilty of when I started was no at Chilean during what word thought leadership means how how you use a how would you describe it to people in? A useful way that that's the thing I don't think anyone really knows what thought leadership means. It's I think of that that gift that mean from the is skating movie with Welfare where he's on the treadmill and he says, no one knows what it means, but it's provocative. It gets the people go in and that's very much. What thought leadership is like in. The BE SAS world in the tech world more broadly and just in general it's this term that's sort of their thought leadership. It's this thing that is so aspirational in everyone wants to do it and everyone wants to have done it and no one really knows what it means. So when you told me Hey Katie, you want to write be sort of canonical. Animals blog post about here's what we think about like thought leadership is. Like it was very much a sense of like how much time do you have because I've spent so much time sort of looking out sort of at the world that all these things that are sort of self proclaimed thought leadership kind of the most sort of mortifying that you can see as someone tweeting out I wrote a thought leadership he's. It is and it's like. Now did you and then you click through and of course, it's this like sort of basic five paragraph essay with sort of nothing really concrete to say and nothing really industry advancing about it. It's sort of like this is thought leadership in this sort of brackets with nothing in the brackets feels really meteor substantial and as far as like when I was writing the it's interesting because as we were working on the post, we are also sort of solving a problem that we have internally at animals in that, there are a couple of different streams that we call thought leadership and that I. Genuinely, think our thought leadership that are all very distinct from each other. We do a lot of sort of founder ghost writing where it's just this very personal talking about you know your experience building your company were the impetus behind why you started your company and what it means or this mistake that you made as a leader in your business and how it taught you this bigger picture thing and then what I would argue is sort of on the opposite side of the spectrum. If thinking about thought leadership has a spectrum, is the sort of really data driven not intellectually rigorous, academically rigorous like. It analysis looking at trends and data, and and those are very different things but they're both thought leadership and so something that was hoping to achieve in the post was articulating not just what thought leadership is but where it comes from and and what the inputs are that gets you to something that is more substantial and more genuinely industry advancing Ben that sort of boilerplate five paragraph essay. Expounding on nothing so that boiler boilerplate is very much that was where my brain used to go to. When I thought of the Times leadership, it would normally be on linked in be Lincoln. The somebody with thought leader in the linked in bio had written. That was essentially an opinion about something that was possibly not very good. Not Very well founded didn't bring anything new to the table. Whereas the first point you make in your awkward I think is fantastic is the thought leadership thinking about it is a type of content is actually a little bit misleading. The best thing to do is think of it as an approach to content is kind of overarching philosophy. Yeah, and it really is about it's a positioning statement right to use the marketing term. It's like when you say you want to do thought leadership what you're saying is I want to position myself as a thought leader I want me and my brands to be in this position of prominence where our target audience whether that's customers usually is or peers competitors investors what have you They look at your brand and they say, Oh, yes, this brandon, the people that represent this brand have interesting and insightful and useful things to say, and they're really sort of pushing the industry forward and so it's very much positioning statement. There is no sort of form. It's not like I don't know a Haiku where you say this is thought leadership and this is the form that it should take. It's a feeling that you have and do my my my philosophy of thought leadership is very much in feelings I believe the best thought leadership it has to be movement. I talk about movement I where things start with a genuine conviction about something a genuine. A genuine looking out at your industry and saying, okay, something here isn't quite right like people aren't approaching this right people aren't thinking about thought leadership correctly or the way people think about time management is completely stupid or the way that we're approaching B. to b. payments is completely backwards and we should be doing it this way. It's the best thought leadership is grounded in like authentic feelings and the way that I put the things in your industry that drive. You Insane. You know like the best one of the best ways that I can advise people on how to start producing genuine thought leadership that's really grounded and something is just pay attention to yourself. When you go on like a twenty minute rant about that tweet that drives you nuts because this person is saying something that you know is completely wrong because that is a thought leadership article in there there's a thought leadership article sort of buried in that feeling of. This person is so wrong and I wish more people knew why they're wrong like that is where the best thought leadership comes from is it comes from a genuine place of wanting to make the industry better and it starts with feelings I'm sorry I know that alarms people sometimes but. Determining agree I think it's holiday to create good thought leadership from a truly cynical place. There are definitely people out there who have refined those opinions or feelings to like a fine science basically by do agree anyone that approaches it from the perspective of. Sharing, things that are engineered to perform as opposed to having something that they basically have no choice but to share they care about it so much they going to be doomed to failure. They're the ones that are gonNA clutter up your linked in feed with you mentioned Haiku. Do you remember that phase of? Bro a tree when people were. Almost elegant in some cases, it's still happening where they're like, Oh, the Lincoln Algorithm likes it. When you break things up into these this sort of like beat poetry style. Yeah. It was a simpler time. Concept I think you introduced me to actually the really helped. Me Really helped me wrap my head around thought leadership with the idea of the unseat CRA. Obviously, if you look in your your life or your backstory or your career there a million things you can share. Oversee needs to be some kind of filter some kind of vetting process to work out what's actually interesting what's the most relevant? WHAT'S GOING TO BE USEFUL FOR PEOPLE? How would you go about doing that house unseat fit into that? So the thing about earn secrets like this way of thinking about thought leadership is comes. Pretty directly out of my background. So my first job way back in the dinosaur ages of twenty thirteen twenty fourteen I was writing pitch decks for founders will funding profiles, which was sort of cross between a pitch deck and business plan because we thought the jobs act was gonna come through and everyone was going to be able to invest directly in privately held companies and was going to be this brave new world. And it's kickstarter but for equity, and so I basically wrote pitch decks for somewhere between three hundred and four hundred different businesses and in doing that I noticed that founders when they're pitching investors, they have this incredibly refined well articulated story about like who they are, what problem they're solving that problem matters like what their product is all of this sort of thought and effort that has gone into designing their solution the. Unique. Features they're building the proprietary technology that they've developed the high profile partners that they are working with the amazing clients. They already have the evangelists that are out there like supporting them, and now that I'm on the content side I, look back at that and I'm like every single one of those is a launch point for thought leadership like every one of these like the term earn secret comes from Ben Horowitz. And he's talking about in the business building contacts. What is your moat? What is the thing that you know that nobody else out there knows that's going to allow you to build a business that's going to be able to sustain a competitive position in the marketplace, and if we think about content as marketplace of ideas than there's pretty clear parallel between the earned secrets of your business and the earn secrets of your content. And in cases I. Really think they're the same thing like you just need to go back to that pitch deck where you told investors wire special and then turn around and tell your audience the exact same thing. Is a mantra that's kind of gaining bit hold within animals, and that is the good content strategy is just good business strategy and a low of sentences. In the same way, the any company that's going to succeed in the world has to have something unique some it can brings the table other people don't do own in a different way content has to do exactly the same thing. There so many businesses out there as competition is so this and that's exactly the same content marketing as well. So I love their and secrets, and one of the things we've done is because we're an agency, we create lots of thought leadership we work with lots and lots of different people as try and systematize this process a little bit. How can we work with a founder or some of the C. Suite or any kind of leader, and actually turn their experiences and perspectives into content in a predictable reliable way? So maybe have taught me through these five sources of thought leadership you came up with. Yeah. So thinking about you know again thought leadership, it has to be grounded in something real and something it has to be something that have like if we think about that coming out of the secret, no thought leadership isn't just thing it isn't just about saying a thing that you think the industry should know it has to be backed up by something that you have, and so as you say, as we've worked with a bunch of different companies across these different styles of thought leadership, we've sort of noticed that these inputs that people have that tend to lend themselves well to thought leadership. Sort of come in these five different flavors, the counter narrative opinion, the personal narrative network connections, industry analysis, and data storytelling. So to start to start at the top cow narrative opinion is the one I. Think most people tend to think of when they think of thought leadership. It's just a contrarian that's out there saying, no, that's not the thing this this is the thing and the person that I always think of when I when I think of that sort of just I'm going to say what I think and you're gonNA listen to me is definitely a David Hannah Myer Hansen Aka h from base camp. He's built an entire personal brand and business brand around being perpetually unimpressed by. The Silicon Valley consensus in this growth at all costs, hustle culture sort of mentality, and he talks about it all the time like that's his that's his twitter. That's the blog post that he writes. That's the book that he wrote with his co founder Jason Free, as we said like writing an entire book about your philosophy is. Building the the final evolution of the thought leadership poke him on like. You can say, Hey, I, wrote a book and everybody goes to read your book because they're that interested in how you business should should be run like that's that's the ball game like that is victory and so David Hammer Hanson Anderson freed there really are the embodiment of the idea of counter narrative thought leadership just having a really strongly held opinion and it's not like baseless like a lot of is grounded in how they run their company. And how they built their products. You know base camp is a productivity tool that is built to help businesses run in a less hustled less growth at all costs kind of way. So it's grounded in their product it's grounded in the way they run their business. They can say, Hey, we've made millions of dollars running a business this way. So we have credibility to go out there and say it doesn't have to be crazy at work, GM? Reading Your Post that she ended up triggering a whole new article that I wrote a few weeks later about the power of having a nemesis in marketing the idea that it's not always enough to be the hero of story sometimes, you do have to position yourself in a position to win as well. So if they basecamp camp very famously very recently when up against Apple. kind of taking on the industry giant, saying some pretty wild and vitriolic things about apple. Example I'm ready fund of as well as a hotspot conjuring up boogeyman of outbound marketing. And it's not really a thing in the way. The like apple is obviously a thing or beatings obviously a thing it was this term the company put around something was otherwise quite nebulous a collection of marketing tactics been doing. So it gave him this whole vein of thought leadership. They could right when commenting on how tired and old on fruitful the old way of doing things was is yeah. Houston path approach. Yeah. For sure and I think that's the trick. With the just purely sort of op-ed style opinionated thought leadership is it's the sort of the most abstract and the hardest to sort it. It doesn't come with sort of already sort of set of input. So you kind of have to sort of build the world that your argument is going to live in four yourself out of the pieces that you see out in the world and I think setting up a nemesis that you can come back to again and. Again and again is a really effective way to do that particularly when it's a nemesis that isn't like you know nobody nobody real. Okay. Going after apple is one thing. There are a giant multi trillion dollar company they're going to be fine but I know something that a lot of people are worried about when it comes to thoughtless content in general is going negative. They don't want their brands to be seen as you know dumping on other businesses other. Other leaders, and so you can build up sort of this idea of a bad concept sort of thing out in the world that is bad that you wanna fix I think that can be a nice way to be real and be impactful without necessarily you know looking like you're the the mini on the playground that's beating all the other kids like pretty company that is totally of us to negatively there are many brands out. That's very fattening to do. This idea of personal narrative is another source of thought leadership as well through that. Yeah. So this this one is again going back to thinking about how founders tell the story of their brands when they're pitching investors a lot of the time there's this really personal story about their their Aha moment the moment the light bulb went on when they realized there's this problem out in the world and we can solve it and they do such a good job sort of talking about it in their pitches and again, I'm like why isn't this a blog post? Like this is your origin story, the origin story of your product in your brand like for my money should be everyone's sort of first piece of thought leadership because it's just such a grounded authentic way to be say here's who we are. Here's what we believe in and here's how we're building better business like making our industry and the thing that we care about better and the guy that we love to talk about on this front nobody does this better is Chris? Savage. From Dea he's such a like naturally self reflective delayed. It seems like he's constantly. Thinking about his leadership and how things are going at Wistaria and sort of. Thinking about you know lessons. He's learned experiments that they've tried that haven't worked out. He's written in the past and recently wrote again about realizing that this idea of the flat org structure that was supposed to be so cool and like nobody there's no. Everybody's on the same level like was a horrible mistake in lately since built hierarchy back into wissies org structure and has been so much better and then the big piece that he wrote with a Brendan. A few years back about their journey away from the growth at all cost model and how they bought their investors out and took on debt. He's. Always, very open about lessons he's learned, and that's the thing about sort of personal narrative thought leadership is that like for my money the best examples or when if there's a mistake at the center when you know because if you think about a story, it has a beginning a middle and an end and there has to be conflict in the world of. Business the conflicts going to be a mistake conflict comes from things not going the way that they should. So the trick with personal narrative is that you have to be willing to go there. You have to be willing to say raise your hands a hey I'm a leader I want you to think of me as a thought leader I e someone who you should like listen to and. And take seriously but I'm GonNa do that by telling you about this time that I messed up. It's a little counterintuitive and it makes people nervous because the attitude in tech in particular is very much this posture of sort of attornal competence and just crushing it all the time like Gosh like were were raise this round we have we just hit this milestone for customers or revenue and Insofar that people are comfortable talking about failure they always sort of try to like nested safely within like Oh nobody talks about failures. So in talking about failure I am great unsuccessful and this is where like me as the sort of like. Cynical old lady in the corner. I'm just mumbling if nobody talks about failure than why is there an entire genre? Postmortem that all start with everyone talking about how no one talks about failure, and then they're like, here's my startup postmortem. So there's a way that that you can talk about failure and it can come off as sort of like it authentic and it's clear that you're more only raised ten million. Instead of the twelve million we could have raised I'm such a failure. Exactly. Yeah, and I think that rings hollow in that doesn't tend to connect with people. But when you're very real about like, Hey, I made this mistake that like made my entire team mad at me and they like. took me out behind the shed in gave me a whooping on our all hands like that kind of genuine wallner ability connect with people. You know everyone feels really unsure especially when they're waiting into new territory, which the best leadership inherently is exploring tarit new territory and so when you can do it from genuine position, I was sort of like vulnerability and sharing. Not just the things you've done that have been successful but the things that have been less successful it builds trust and that's what leadership is ultimately about doing. It's about not just like building authority but building trust in that authority and being authentic how how you came about the lessons that you want to share with people is a great way to do that. The this type of ship that is truly accessible to anyone. You don't build a business without having an interesting story. You don't spend fifteen years working in a particular career without having a ton of sincerely interesting things happen to you. It might take a little prod door a little bit of encouragement from like a writer, for example, to help draw the out of you but there is always something interesting something worth sharing their. Yeah. There's this concept that I really love culture of knowledge. which is just the idea that we don't know what we know that other people don't know and a lot of the time. You really do need someone to point out to you to stop you and say like, Hey, like that's a really interesting idea i. don't think a lot of people know that because we we all we are ourselves we take for granted that the things that everyone knows the things that we know because that's just the way the human mind works we take our. Own, subjective experience as sort of like default and yet as you say, it can take some work discovering those insights and experiences that you have that no one else has and it also takes a little bit of just like confidence to be like, I, think a lot of people tend to think, Oh, I'm not I'm not D H I'm not Chris Davidge I'm not in this position where I'm ready to like do thought leadership because I'm just this little nobody but like your stories your. Story and as you say, like everybody has a story and it's not this exclusive club where everyone sits around smoking jackets being like we we have a story that's worth telling the peons do not. That's not a thing. The next subset of thought leadership is one which I guess is a logical fuller on from what we were just talking about night as using the personal narratives of other people people. You know you'll network people that you work with will make friends with in some cases. Yeah I love this one. This one is my favorite because it sort of plugs into another misconception that I think people have about thought leadership, which is just that it sort of happens and ivory tower where you go off and think you know these amazing thoughts and then you have done thought leadership but like the best leadership is done in conversation, it's done. Like either weather like indirectly just through like Oh, you saw this person tweet something and you disagree with it. So you go right about why disagree with it or like a real conversation like between you and somebody that you really respect and so like thinking about going back to earn secrets and the assets that companies can have in their arsenal that can sort of. A wheat into thought leadership like if you just know a lot of interesting like amazing people if you have amazing clients that you have really strong relationships with if you have customers that have seen amazing successes using your product, just bringing them out to talk about what they know and share their knowledge. Kind of counter-intuitively can be thought leadership for you if you become avenue through which. Your audience can get access to all these different people that have these amazing insights than that becomes the way that you establish thought leadership and the example that we pointed to in the post here is the first round review one of the brands and publications that our clients come to US telling us. We want this how do we do this and we unfortunately have to ask them. Do you have what first round capital has, which is amazing network of businesses they've invested in that have these amazing practitioners that they can access. That is first round reviews earned secret is for from Capitol all of the companies that they've invested in all of the amazing talent that's within those companies that they can go to and say, Hey, we really appreciate your approach to product development. Would you be interested in talking to us about how you? Approach this, and we'll write in amazing blog post and it'll go up on the blog on the capital blog and that becomes thought leadership both for that individual at that company. But then also for first round because they have definitely become this sort of go to publication for really needy in depth thought leadership about business building that again like there are no like little wimpy five paragraphs essays on the first round view, it's so substantive and it's So in depth, and that's entirely because they only feature people that are like experts in their field. But spend all day every day nerd out about these things and I review is able to tap those people because they have this network as venture capital firm that will never run dry and we'll be this endless. This endless source of content for their brand smokes go version of that on Lok recently a to write a post about the power. Of Competitive Comparison acknowledging that you have competitors creating content about her if I'd have written that it would have been largely an intellectual curiosity like I've not done that myself in the same way that somebody like landmark John Podesta has done their company. The I've long admired that competitor alternative pages smart and they're amazing. So I took the idea I want to write about an ankle in the experience of Len I interviewed him. I got his advice. And that's great land he gets to share some. He's really passionate about it's great for us through associations implicit endorsement as well. took a post that would have been kind of trite self congratulating really weak thought leadership and turned into something that has genuine merit to yeah and it takes a certain amount of humility right to be like I. Don't know this thing over these much better than me. I'm going to go out and find the person who does know the thing and get them to talk to me at. But again, just like you can lead for vulnerability, you can lead through not knowing but being willing to be the person that goes goes and finds. Does now. Up to number full now, this industry analysis, this is a great example because when I joined animals completely unbeknownst to me I was in the midst of reading a great blog post by Heatin Shah never had been before about how Trello had failed to build a four billion dollar business or something. It was great writing. It was kind of inflammatory but like the best possible way. I really admired hidden. He knew he knew industry he knew the I didn't know I learned from him. Turn that was that was our handiwork. There was something we'd helped heated with, and that is a great example of this industry analysis using your experience in your industry to poss- comment and highlight the things the as you said earlier like other people just don't know. Yeah. Like nobody and like I was in his axing boat when I came aboard at animals I and I found out that that we worked with Hedin I was as I believe the Brits Say Gobsmacked A. That is incredible and nobody nobody does sort of product analysis. Heaton he's so smart about what makes products successful, what what makes them unsuccessful but sort of like personal narrative thought leadership. What I love about this one is anyone can do this anyone can look out at their industry and formulate hypothesis about what's going on. Anyone can look at an epic fail with a product that clearly went wrong and sort of. Do a you know a little bit of like armchair quarterbacking about where the disconnect was what the cause was. It really just takes a smart brain that knows the industry and some good research and you don't have to be like already established authority the way that at this point in his career Heaton is in order to do that, you just have to be smart and a little clever in how you sort of. You know muscle your way into the conversation when you're a little less prominent and can't and can't necessarily like send a tweet and everyone comes running because you're heating Shah and they need to know what you think about up worker I don't know if he's done upward but Trello dropbox a cigarettes nicely to fifth and final source of thought leadership, which is data storytelling. This is something I'm sure it's very close to your hockey. I love data I, started this podcast talking about feelings in them. We're GONNA. Now we're GONNA talk about data, which is you know some would think or is the opposite of feelings, but let's not let's not have this false dichotomies. So data storytelling in this is one that we've. We've developed something of a specialty in at animals. I think because it's particularly effective for B. Two B. Context just because you know business. Business happens in numbers, we use numbers to try to measure everything and everything has to come back into numbers in order for us to make sense of it and be able to make informed decisions and beat a be decision makers to use the marketing. Term. Bay are likewise they really respond to data. It's it's a huge basis of credibility building. You Know People WanNa see the numbers and so if you want to be. In a position of authority in Business in particular, you've really gotta leave with the numbers and so the brand that we love for this that we help a little bit with this is the artist formerly known as Chubby brain CDM sites will I learned that I was done a do I was groped smacked I will never not mention it at any time the opportunity comes up. Because it's just so funny to me because cdn sites is this incredibly sophisticated mug market intelligence data as jen and their name used to be Chubby brain and I think that is delightful. But yeah, they so CBS data is the product. Their product is this incredible sort of repository of business intelligence data that they've collected. They actually just acquired more data which I didn't really think about. As thing that you could acquire but CBS sites went and did it now their data engines even more impressive and because of that, they're able to just put out these incredibly sort of authoritative end rigorous analyses on the market forces that are shaping anything from Ed Tech to Fintech to telehealth consumer products stay can slice and dice industries in so many ways and just put out reports but have like a sort of like a level of resolution. On, the market that nobody else can provide and the and from there like CBS sites data is like all over the place. Every newsletter that on on their founder sends out ends with here are like five places that CBS sites data was cited this week and it's like people just they know CB insights, data's good journalists, market analysts, other bloggers, they come to see the insights looking for data that can help them orient themselves in the market so. CBS sites is the kind of you know not everyone can be heat and shaw in terms of like prominence. Impressiveness Lake CB insights is kind of the heat and Shaw of market intelligence like you're not going to magically have your own proprietary set of all this market intelligence today but you can start small. You can run an experiment with your product and then sort of share the results of that experiment. You can sort of survey or customers and ask them for insight like asked their opinions on things you know your audience will be. Interested in you can you can like the value of data storytelling is that it's this very scientific rigorous quantified approach to ideas and you can. You can run experiments. Experiments don't have to be you know a million data points you can start with just just a few as long as you have that sort of scientific spirit of inquiry and discovery at the center of your feelings about it. That's a key point as well because. We talked about the importance of. Filtering your opinions to look for value within the same as obviously turn data I think it's very tempting to have a hypothesis, use the data, run back it up and find it quite actually fit and then because you've already sunk time into it and Jane, you want the story to be true maybe time workshop data and. Think that definitely results in the weakest the least convincing type of data thought leadership. The stuff that is obviously cynically serving a narrative that came before the data. So a big part of that again is the humidity aspect be willing to be wrong with a hypothesis be willing to start. Again if you keep looking there will be something interesting in your data in. The same way the people have interesting experiences. Your product is made up of hundreds, thousands of people using your product everyday day going to be stuff in there somewhere if you called enough for. Yeah Cou well, maybe one one good thing to wrap up onto close to leave people with we spent all this time thinking about how to actually do thought leadership but. Once you're doing it. How do you measure the success of it? Is it something that leads to business does it convert or is there some kind of more intangible success metro we should be thinking about? So this is like funny that we're this. This is coming on the tail of data because the thing about thought leadership in the thing that we were very careful to tell our clients when they come to us wanting to do leadership is that the way that you tracked success can be bit more nebulous than your sort of bread-and-butter Seo content where you optimize for the key word and then you go back to Google analytics, you track the key word and you can see that progress over time thought leadership can be. Hidden because it isn't indexed against any known factor because you're very often talking about things like if you're talking about something new, it doesn't have a key word. There isn't anything you can optimize it for and so thought leadership the way that thought leadership get out there tends to be a lot more experimental. It's you know throwing something out on twitter on Lincoln through forums that you're in a lot more. It's a lot more driven by word of mouth and really relying on the the originality and authenticity and uniqueness of your perspective combined with being really plugged into a genuine need or a genuine feeling in your industry that people. Are Going to respond to that tends to create this really sort of genuine organic sort of ground swell of support for your thought leadership. But it happens a lot less predictively than other forms of content, which is something that is very, very sad although the the very the very thought leadership posts that brings us here today is sort of causing meter rethink this because that he's it's very much. It is very much every unsolicited opinion about thought leadership that I had been waiting five years for someone to ask me out. It's very movement I, but it is also there is a key word there. So I am very much thinking. Okay, it seems clear to me that we can have this sort of thought leadership. Let me sort of storm the gates of conventional wisdom on this topic and have that be the grounded in keyword. So I think there is a really there is a really exciting opportunity to combine to anchor thought leadership and keywords in a way that can give them more life and more discover ability and I'm really I'm really excited about that but I also want. To leave room for the experimental south for the stuff that genuinely as something that nobody is searching for because no one had the language to talk about it until you gave it to that. That is true thought leadership when you're putting words to a feeling that so many people in your spacehab and they just haven't had the words like that to me is just amazing writing period like that is my favorite feeling when I as a reader when I. Read something and I'm like Oh. Oh, that is that is the thing that I have nebula sleep felt and here it is in words and with thought leadership to it's so exciting but you're just not going to be able to optimize for it unless people are actually searching for you and again final evolution of the thought leadership poke him on when people associate a concept earn idea with you because you have been the one out there in the. Marketplace of ideas really championing that idea the way it doesn't have to be crazy at work has sort of become synonymous with base camp when you can establish that kind of ownership of an idea because it's your baby, it's your little thought baby. That's amazing and the way that that becomes to get to sort of conversion and business building salt leadership we can be idealistic and say it should be about leading the industry and making the industry better. Authentic desire to sort of serve the audience and that's true. But it's GonNa. Be It's about the business and it's okay to say I WANNA do thought leadership because I want to grow the credibility authority in prominence of my brand and I wanNA track new customers, I wanNA keep the customers that I have and I believe really strongly that thought leadership does do all of that again may not be as trackable as you get to the bottom of the search optimized peace and there is. not, input your email to get the but EBA version of this article it's not usually that direct, but it's qualitatively like do people trust you do they look to you for guidance on how to think about new things that are emerging in the space? This is a big learning for me through animals marketing as well because when I took over I come very much from weld of Seo content where you measure things by compounding monthly growth right keyboard rankings that is how you measure success. and seeing a blog like how's that was so successful and having none of those metrics like judge advocate at by a total mind blow for me. But we all seeing compounding traffic every month it's not predictable. The same way as we're Ganic traffic but more people do find us and talk about us, share content will be through different channels, newsletters, slack groups, closed communities, and some quite sporadic Qa rankings like you're wonderful thought leadership post. The other thing is in terms of that qualitative performance metrics. Do Begin to notice when you reach a critical mass where people are actually thinking of you as a thought leader. So the whole mocks we've noticed aw. Prospects, repeatedly, mentioning our ideas back to us on sales calls. Or ideas that we've come up with withdrawn discreet lines around us as inspiration for other people's blog posts for warranting responses or commentary on things that we've done. Is, definitely, slow to begin with but you do is this kind of natural upswell where the idea is shaping giving life to do get taken up by the pro the community, which is pretty cool. Yeah. I've been tagged on twitter more times in the last two months than in the previous seven years that I've been on twitter it's been it's been pretty wild and the other thing that I want to say as relates to how about leadership converts. Into customers converts into loyalty is just thinking about the information landscape that we live in thinking about the business landscape that we live in. Market Research people are all talking about Oh. Jen Zee our values driven consumer and they they really care about the sort of morality of the businesses that they frequent and like I have a very cynical view of market researchers in general because I just I think they're trying to measure something that can actually be quantified. But in this case, they're not wrong like people wanna feel good about the brands that they support. They WanNa feel like especially when it's to be, you're thinking about tools that are helping you do your work you want to feel good about your work and you WanNa, feel good about the tools that are helping to do that. Work and so thought leadership. You know again when you're being authentic and real and credible and showing the work showing how you came to your conclusions whether it's with data or personal experience Sir through other smart people. But you bounce ideas off of your building credibility. You're sort of planting your flag in a certain style of doing business that I feel really strongly and I think animals as a company feels really strongly is just a good way of doing business being real being authentic and being true to to what you believe as a business or sounds like soothing inspiring place for us to leave proceedings. I will link to. You'll fantastic low post in the show notes is sincerely as one of the best things I. Think we publish on the blog and a longtime. It solves a big problem that lots of people have and Katie just as you can tell, is overflowing with smart ideas about. Those thank you so much a chance to get really appreciate it. Thanks for having me on this one.

founder twitter apple Ben Horowitz Katie CBS Chris Davidge Heatin Shah Jen Zee Lincoln Bio Katie Parrot Katie Para Times US Casey Lincoln Heaton first round capital John Podesta brandon
How to Drive Revenue Using Content Marketing

OC Talk Radio

23:53 min | 2 years ago

How to Drive Revenue Using Content Marketing

"Welcome once against another episode her host today's Roy Morgan demand sponsor as well that sales manager sales marketing demand welcome back to another episode of Revenue Rebels. I'm really excited today to welcome Christie go nuccio. She is the V._p.. Of Strategic Egypt marketing at L. L. Our partners Christie translates actionable growth advice from ehlers hor folio companies from their network of senior operators and from the L. Our team itself they pull all of this amazing content into digital and live content events and resources this work that Christie is doing creates opportunities for sharing best practices among business leaders. She's also the head of all L. Ours Brand P._R.. And Social Media Presence Christie. Can you share a little bit with the listeners about what El- our partners does and your role there so in the private Equity World L.. Our partners is considered a growth equity investor so so that means that we're putting capital into fairly mature businesses not startups help them accelerate their growth and the ways they can use that capital can be things like expanding their operations entering new markets making acquisitions building out their sales and marketing teams a lot of time like sales development team but it's all for the purpose of growing their business admire old L.. R. Is to primarily be the brand champion and to lead all all of our marketing efforts like you mentioned earlier that includes content social media P._R.. Everything everything you see in our digital presence on the web and offer the primary goal of not only helping US source opportunities but as all talk about more in this podcast really nurturing investment opportunities for the firm awesome cool and so today hey what we're I mean. There's so much that we could talk about we could it sounds like have easily five podcasts but today this is a topic that is near and dear to my heart. We're talking about driving revenue using content marketing and to be clear to everybody out there listening. The topic of content supports the goals of both marketing and sales so I really see this as you know. <hes> marketing and sales are teams go hand in hand and content is something that supports everything thing in between so I also WanNa let everybody know that this is a two part series today. We're going to be focusing on building your strategy and then we'll be back with partout on executing through the strategy. Why don't we start by talking about the challenges challenges that you were trying to address when you launched the content marketing initiative at L. are what was the impetus to putting some resources behind US private equity is a very crowded market today but a lot of firms out there they kind of capital being invested and what that means is that the C._e._O.'s of the gross state agencies that we're targeting? They're the same people that every other private equity firm was trying to reach so they're getting called an email from potential investors and bankers and all kinds folks kind of in our ecosystem everyday not to mention there actually trying to run a business so they're very very busy at the same time. They're thinking about raising capital. It's a very very long term decision so it's very rare that the will wake up one morning. They it's time for meter as private equity money. I'M GONNA go out and finding investor higher banker and get this started and be done with it and six months when we initially connect with the C._e._o.. It could be anywhere from three months to three years or even more before you really get into the conversation the diligence and actually sleep you know potentially invest in that business so our towns at once. We start a conversation with a company and it's usually with the C._e._o.. We have to show value ongoing. We have to position ourselves top of mind like I said months later years later later when it does come time for that E._E._o.. To choose a private equity partner and knowing all of that L. are made a commitment a couple of years ago to be different about the way we go to market in the way we present our brand and we wanted to be smarter about how we nurtured relationships the companies that were talking to that's really where the content marketing comes in. I'll say upfront that my focus is really not about brand new legion. It's much more about nurturing relationships ongoing and about us being able to you look at the engagement analytics with content in order to be smarter about how differentiating ourselves our living and breathing our brand and how we're trying to translate those relationships into real doesn't opportunity a couple of the keywords that I pulled out of there. Were Oh you know being able to look at the analytics around the content which I think is is not always the easiest thing to do right because rightful looking at other sort of channel engagement but content specific is tougher and then also nurturing those relationships which takes a lot of time as he said I mean especially depending on your industry you guys could be must but it's probably more like hoarders or or years we often hear about business. Leaders have really great ideas for content. That we're all shorter will engage prospects better. They don't realize it. It's going to what it's going to take rather to call it all together and then you can't be a one and done sort of approach writes a really does that require that strategy an clear plan so can you walk us through a little more around how alar develop the strategy to reach you guys have a very targeted audience really specific. What did that look like George so our target audience like I said is C._e._O.'s and can be C._F._O.'s of growth stage businesses one thing that was really an Keitel our success early on about developing strategy was recognizing that we didn't necessarily have to reinvent our brand to that audience we just is needed to articulate better how were different and act on it in a way that was more effective ours been around for twenty years? We've always been focused on giving our portfolio companies access to knowledge and expertise that they need to grow on top of providing them capital capital to support their growth plan. We're giving them a lot of resources and sort of this depth of knowledge that we have in our organization and within our network to help them in areas like talent and sales and marketing and financing a and all those things where they're gonNA put capital into growing but they need more than money they need advice. They need for the best practices on how to do it but the thing is all that insight really lived inside our head and it had never been co defied in a way that new audiences outside of our portfolio companies could access it and apply it to their own businesses businesses. That's perfect fight of content strategy right so the content is already. There and I think that that's really critical to developing a strategy is looking at what you already have access to person's trying to invent something brand new and seeing how you can answer harness that and codified into a format like written format <hes> and share it with others so that though growth bits were born we branded it growth degree term and I've spent the last two years working with our portfolio leaders or advisors are board directors in our internal experts you too right nine hundred thousand word posts put them out every other week to share this content with our audiences to kind of bring this knowledge out of our heads put it on paper and send it out through <hes> mostly email and social media and once we got into a strong cadence of producing it we added other types of formats like e books industry related content but I can't wait to hear more about some of the other types of content in the technology and everything that you guys have have put in place in order to make this happen. It does look like it is time for us to take a quick break. We will take a moment just to hear a little bit more about demand Blab. Stay tuned. We'll be right back with Christy till Nuccio were discussing driving revenue through content marketing <music> and we just want to give you a quick reminder. The today's <hes> episode of `Sella May <hes> is brought to you by demand lab which helps organizations like yours transformed the revenue potential by connecting their greatest assets people processes technology and data they do through a customized revenue ecosystem solution by leveraging marketing technology data science governance and analytics as well as good content demand lab helps B. Two B. Organizations organizations advanced business goals and drive revenue. Isn't that what it's all about you WANNA learn more simply visit their website demand labs and find all the different solutions. They have available at demand lab DOT COM. That's demand lab dot com how demand the best with that. Let's pick it back up second half of our show. Thank you so much Paul. Let's jump right back in Christie. Can you tell us how technology plays into your strategy comedy. How have you blended content efforts with technology to drive success so our website is obviously there the hub for where we house all of our content and it's where other people are audiences can access it? That's on wordpress our our distribution channel is primarily through email and there's a host of tools behind the scenes that make that happen in the smartest way possible. We like ZANK <HES> SO Japan lab we see we work with run your firms you manage Marchetto Hora which is big help for me because because I'm a team of one I don't have technical knowledge to do it myself or technical resource internally to do it so we outdoors to your from then we manage all of our context and so forth and we spent a lot of time over the last two years testing and tweaking that Marquette in southwest integration to make sure that we can segment our contacts and the right way and that we have access to those analytics and put the right data in the right places within salesforce and it's mostly being drawn from Marco for us to be able to look at both our audiences engaged with our content holistically and then an individual contact record level so that we can have determined in Action Plan on how we should follow up with the contact once we see how they're engaging with our content segmentation again again data analytics and also one to one communication to actually be able to see us the back end of your platforms to see how best to communicate and engage with with your audience so we recently had a guest on the podcast talked about the importance of audience segmentation and you know the impact that it delivers in terms of being able to really connect with your targeted customers and prospects and really drive got customer experience right and drive them to action how does L. L. are years segmentation to personalise. It's outreach. I think it's first important to note that we only send our contact content tend to individuals that L. O.. R. Has connected with one on one via phone or an in person meeting in addition we send it to people who have proactively visit our site and subscribe our content so we're not buying list and we're not marketing to people. Well with whom we've never had any interaction sure we have a whole separate podcast about the complaints reasons behind this but also for I think it's critical that brand message as well. We're we're not trying to force ourselves onto people that we don't know through our content but instead instead were nurturing those relationships so the segmentation comes in a couple of formats we generally keep all of our company executives contacts together in one large segment and so they're the ones that receive the new growth bits every other week along with anyone who who had subscribed and have our audiences referral sources and investment bankers people who could introduce us to them and if they choose to opt into our content which they do then we send it to them as well but other library has grown and because we have one on one conversations nations with these core Turkey IOS just prompted them receiving content we're able to now segment them by the growth areas that they tell us in conversations are challenging them the most so we have a market development team here that functions like a sales development team and when they're talking them one on one there author taking notes and ourselves for system and so as an example if a C._E._o.. Shares in that conversation that his primary goal for this year is to create a sale development program we can add. I'm doing nurture campaign and features several different growth pets. We've written over the last two years that talk about how to lunch S._D._R.. Program at Higher Training Onboard S._D._R.'s and even had a handoff leads effectively to sail. That's one way that we can segment them by topic. Interest the other one is by industry so L. alarm invest in several different industries including FINTECH industrial tech- in healthcare those are three where I worked specifically with those investment teams to develop content for that audience and make sure that our distribution bution strategy targets them only earlier this year we created and Info graphic about all of the key areas of Fintech that we think are most exciting for twenty nineteen and therefore that's where we're looking to invest and then we have gone through and written a content piece about each one of those segments and we're rolling them out over time but we're only sending them to the fintech specific companies in our database so that we know that that content and highly relevant for them. One of the things sort of cursing. We're talking king is that you guys do have really targeted audience and it's it's pretty specific and you have such an incredible process. I think in system down one of the challenges at some companies might have that are in different spaces says which you know a lot of our listeners will be is scaling. So how do you scale that personal collection of interest in it to me. It's around planting the seeds on your website so perhaps that also might be something that you guys <hes> are are doing already but when you're able to use your platforms to see where people are visiting. It's either GonNa be planting the season your website or within looking at being able to track and categorize your blog posts into different product or interests and that sort of thing and even developing the content itself. You know you've got great tools out. There can distribute contents that helps you uncover as a person <unk> even doing a self evaluation or exploring you know something some peace distributed. You can actually learn a bench about them so there are other ways to do that without having to do that. One on one I mean you guys are getting the richest possible information by being able to talk one on one with these folks beforehand yeah personalization to is is our next step where putting the pieces in place to make sure that we have either right data in salesforce in order to personalize our emails more <hes> from a content standpoint in terms of who they're coming from as well <hes> but also looking at things like when they get their first growth but team oh we actually than than what we call a welcome growth bits email after we've had that initial qualification phone call and it has four different pieces that cover four four different topics one thing that we're considering is looking at all right well. What's the first one they click on which one of these are they think most interesting and that's an indicator of what topic is interesting to them and so if we don't have them kind of manually entered into a nurture campaign now more of an automated way to do it so there's a lot of different options there? I've personally spoken with a number of P._e.. Firms that would love to replicate what you guys are doing yet. I know you have we had that conversation and thank you guys up. They say we WANNA do what they're doing yet. A really struggle for a number of reasons and we don't even get to get into that but Hoti U._C.. L. Ours approach to content marketing as unique compared to what you see in the industry with these other I <hes> I do those phone calls a lot and I go to conferences. There's one in the private equity industry. That's really for all the marketers out there. I got a lot of people saying bad. I'm watching your website and I'm watching your content in your linked in. How do you do this like you mentioned earlier? How do you scale the so? I think there's two very distinct things that make this strategy. L. Are very different number. One is that the real kicker here that every single piece of content every bit post is actionable so as the owner of this content strategy I will not let an interview and or post go I unless there is really strong actionable insights that a reader can turn around and apply to their business so I will keep asking questions in that interview until we can kind of get down to those. Does he a couple of steps or take away that someone needs to get that can come in a variety of format that could be a checklist they give that could be a step by step guide a template a case study as long as it inspires action in fits into the strategy and the feedback from audience. Against tells us that we hit the mark on that approach so from the very beginning we've gotten very positive feedback and we continue to hear if anecdotally when our investment teams come back from a meeting that someone says yeah growth keep them coming out and I love this idea that idea and the things that they can actually put into action second. Is that very other very few private equity firms are doing this or dedicated the resources and I think you mentioned earlier that you know this. This requires tremendous manage education and I don't think people realize how much goes into creating content content start doing it so there are you other firms out there that were our inspiration first round capital open new partners insight venture partners but most others that we try to do content start a corporate blood. It's written by their own investment professionals does and they still to come up with what you're right and how to write it. I have a great network of other marketing leaders P From and they're always talking about how challenging that is to keep it up. Even interesting. We took a different approach. All the content comes from these topical experts we know that that's up more important to our audience and they love to hear from their peers so why not draw the insight from their peers and share it out with them. It's also great personal branding as well to bring the executive leadership of the companies that are are part of your portfolio to the forefront. Let give them a voice. I can't imagine any executive who wouldn't be interested in sharing some of their thinking right gets a win win win win win leadership opportunity for them so with that with the actionable snuggle insights requirements you know we are coming to a close. These podcasts are never long enough for me as I say I think at the end of everybody every podcast. Are there any tips that you would share to our listeners about building a strategy out or is. Is there anything that you wish you had known a couple of years ago. When you started this that you think could be helpful to our listeners? One thing I mentioned earlier is to look for content inspiration around you. Look at what already exists you don't necessarily have to come up with something brand new you can leverage things around you all the time. Maybe there are documents being put together. Maybe there are ways that your firm is advising. These companies templates that they're sharing internally that you can can sanitizer monetize or you can just a little bit and you put out there. It's content. Also you have to find the people who are genuinely excited about this to participate and get it started. It's really hard to could walk into your executive team and say guess what we're going to start a blog and you're all going to write for it unless those individuals really want to do it and our onboard from the beginning in our personally enthusiastic about it. It's going to be struggle. The hallway I think starting small with the people who really want to do it and see the value who see the thought on leadership opportunity and let them get started use them encourage them to be sharing everything on linked in and sort of gather those little stories about how it can be successful and how not to demanding on their time and then you can start the salad more internally like in the third thing I'll say is the quality of the writing. You have to have good writers. Maybe you have those inside your organization baby. You have to find someone outside your organization that we did. Our primary writer is the head of content for demand lab and she hit the nail the head right from the beginning in terms of our approach. I think we got really lucky in that sense. It's hard to find great writers but it's worth at the time in order to have the quality content that you need yeah and I also know that you guys did some solid work upfront to establish. You're messing architecture your brand voice. All of these other communists works. You guys did probably eighteen months to two years ago to make sure that there was clarity. which actually is what supports even though you have a great writer it supports them during the voice getting where you're coming from? It's a pretty heavy lift and I'm always really impressed with what you've been doing thank you. It's very exciting. Yeah we are at the end of our time and probably ran over a little a bit. Thank you so much for joining us today Kristie. I love the conversation I think our listeners will get a ton out of it. What is the best way for our listeners to reach? You can always get to me at k. d. e. l. m. u.. T. O. AT L. OUR PARTNERS DOT com. You can also go to our website. Oh our partners dot com and you can find my picture in the team section and my email address there as well m- always happy to talk to people better strategy will good and a big thank you to our our listeners for tuning in today to another episode of Revenue Rebels. I'm your host Rhone. Morgan and you can find me on Lincoln by looking up demand lab and searching for our H.. A. N. Morgan and wow handed back over to you Paul. You've been listening to another episode. Revenue Rebels monthly program right here in the radio show part of the funnel radio network bratwurst listener hi. It's Jamie Progressive's employee of the month two months in a row leave a message hi Jamie. It's me Jaime. I just had a new idea here for our song. What the name your price tool so when it's like tell us what you want to pay trombone goes Wah Wah and you say we'll help you find coverage options that fit your budget then we all do finger snaps while a choir goes savings coming at Ya savings coming at Ya yes yes no maybe anyway so your practice tonight? I got new lyrics or the rap break Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and Affiliates Pricing Coverage Match Limited by State Law. Will your child be ready for kindergarten at Chester Brooke Academy Preschool. The answer is yes our.

Christie Revenue Rebels US executive marketing and sales development team writer Fintech A. N. Morgan El Roy Morgan Jamie Progressive Christie sales manager Egypt ehlers hor first round capital partner Japan
Interview with Ewan Edwards - Aldermore - The Savings Guru Podcast

The Savings Guru Podcast

41:26 min | 11 months ago

Interview with Ewan Edwards - Aldermore - The Savings Guru Podcast

"Welcome to the lights savings on lots joined today by you and edwards. He's a savings direct to available. Welcome to the shy james. Good to be here. Thanks for joining us. I'm really looking forward to to toll continue to die because our Older moore's original challenge by your own fast once a guy in in may two thousand nine perhaps pop. She can stop you. Just tell us a little bit more about the history of older more and and and how the banks started shoe so ultimately was born out of the financial crisis in in two thousand nine and they do say that every kind of crisis brings an opportunity at our founding. Fathers recognized that there's an opportunity in in the uk financial services marketplace. That were not being as well served by the biggest polish banks. Ultimo is Specialised bank offering a straightforward lending and savings products to really a couple of markets. Small and medium-sized enterprises so sms homeowners landlords and an individual savings. A quite a simple products and market set. We have no branch network. We serve customers on intermediaries boesky online and also with some telephone support. And since that time we've grown to around half a million customers across all the business lines and all our operations are are based in the uk. The bank made its first profit after three years and twenty the private equity backers flow. The business and older will enter the footsie to fifty and then in two thousand. Eighteen older moore was acquired by first round group of first round or one of the so-called big full banks over a lot. We have in the uk first round already. How do you k- business actually Motor nova was a car financing business based in in cardiff and essentially. They wanted to initially at least shift their funding model into sterling as a way to avoid exchange rate risks but they also saw a disruptive player that had grown really quickly and organically which they felt they could take the next level with all their kinda help and support and that integrations been. It's been pretty famous. Actually we retain the ultimo brenda show you can see keep the up. The fca license the fsis protection and essentially the same management team. In fact in many ways customers would be would be on the wiser. There was all realize that we've retained challenger brand credentials and challenge your ethos but just now with Pull parent within good for customers and colleagues. I think that's a good point. That i think i think is quite unusual. When you say a big brands high-caibre another company that has a customer is read that you don't see sort of any sauna that usually there is this'll to some change in the way things operate From from the outside of seen little evidence of of kind of a big big parents cover Automates since i think you point there about other things i particularly is quite positive thing that you haven't had a big company bearing huge influence on. What you've you've seen from the outside they've largely left you carry on to the you have been doing right. They have upstate. I mean obviously behind the scenes things that go all in some of cool yeah some of the integration illegals but absolutely to the outside world is still old them all and we still operate in the same markets so yeah absolutely. It's a raymond chicano behind the scenes. Merger if you like. I think that's testament to the brand equity on the success of the old brand brandon the uk. I mean why would you give up on a on a success story so and i think they definitely saw an opportunity to to retain the brand to retain the national team and in many ways retain the strategy but just with the audit Resources and say that is ultimately good full. The customers obviously good colleagues. Well yeah you mentioned. The the half. A million customers moss Lost puppy assault He'd gone for attempting. Savings is pretty significant mall. Stein was the plan next. How how big do you think. The ultimo congra- iraq james. I mean we passed that milestone this year we actually didn't close on eleven billion by the time of results announced particularly strong growth in personal savings. We've also got a business savings book as well. So when we talk about savings and older more. He's worth just reminding ourselves that we have a personal savings franchise on a small business and franchise in terms of growth. I think there's a lot we can do both in terms of what we've been doing historically but also in terms of or you might do differently. Now that repulsive of the bigger group i think if i look at the the uk business old morehouse number of financed divisions lend a business finance finance all with their own customers. Think one opportunity is to be able to distribute savings accounts across those customers and to deepen those relationships. Cross the group breath. Also we can develop the savings franchise more in the uk and to actually think of it as a franchise rather than just seeing as a as a funding vehicle for for assets we internally at least we describe our mission within savings Objective as great returns effortlessly sums up our offer to the market on what's important for customers. It was relevant over the last eleven years. I think it's still relevant going forward and i it plays to. I think what's really relevant to to modern savers. They look for a great return. That's obviously a very commodities market. A new play can do nothing else. Really in terms of its rape position but effortlessly i think also talks to two main elements. I guess one is the need full really simple always on friction lists online processes which obviously is right for the times and some butler with people behind the website. Real people you know sat in the uk answering when you need to. Most customers are happy to open their accounts and serve them themselves online but with the reassurance self knowing that there's people stop you on the website and that kind of combination if you like of digitally human we think really powerful combination and so does well in the last eleven years. I think it will continue to say was well going forward. I'm critically as well james. It's it's a real differentiation. From the biggest dumplings banks on the yes might be low in absolute terms but we still able to offer relatively proposition both in terms of rates and convenience. Gonna she about connor. What's been your six reasons. Feel success but you cut you. You've probably covered a law From from our perspective as someone who helps caucasian interested in this spicy off nights to sings. You're one of the fast really to embrace customer feedback particularly in uncertainty. I've nights is that things that way way. You did get constructive feedback from customs on pretty quickly and things were with tweets and tailored and improve. It seems to be that. That's where you'll find his his bain really trying to make a difference there. Yes you pick one that. Actually i think that aspect of our of our journey where we invite customers to get ratings and we publicize ratings on the website. I'm sure you've seen an unedited. I think we won the first efforts providers to actually do that. And i think that's important for a number of reasons first of all. It's very explicit demonstration that you're a customer centric business. He'll prepare to publish on edited reviews on your website of what think about your service and products then assessment about your ethos and you're on your transparency and you're right. We've been doing that for for many years. We have established Voice of customer program. We regularly invite feedback after number of triggers. Whether that's new accounts lightning or maturity and really proud of it for him net promoter schools all in the range of between fifty and sixty which is great. I'm also we invite customers to use external platforms as well james so you trust pilot which is one of the more established of the third policy review sites and again if you take a look at that game. The very proud about performance on Only rated as excellent where we've got more than four out of five stars again very similar to our internal voice of customer so they and i think that's important in in a of modern digital space where you know let's face it savings these a relatively commoditised markets and we think this is a way of extending our reach reinforcing. The great returns effortlessly mantra really proud of it. And i think we'll so internally it it just keeps toes drives that kind of continuous improvement. I personally trust pa every day. You know it's been on my own internet. And i'm always reading you and take great pleasure from seeing the comments and you know we exist to serve customers when they give you that feedback and you can read it in real time. It's is fantastic. Yeah relate to ma south inevitably. You have to deal with with the time when things go wrong. But it's a pleasure when you from from customers zion. Thanks in a good at bangalore I i think it was very interesting. Is that the shave. Ou of of customer view. You get which familial was tells a story. I think if a customer saying that there isn't a an acknowledgment of reaction to their fate by then that conan stop doing it. Don't say the United tikal bold that fate bach than than. Let the stop bothering the share numbers. You have on your writings says that You'll save his fail that is taken on both aida What you just said that will continue to give you that fate because they believe that that is being acted opponent. You mentioned that you've got the the busines savings which is very significant proportion of your book. An you outsource study operational management of the personal savings. But you manage isn't savings in house. You could talk about the reason for that. So split servicing modal. Sure and so when we first launched all the more back in in two thousand nine in order to get to baulky quickly and make the most of the opportunity we we turn to an established third party administrator full savings servicing. This provided a turn key solution I'm critically is is invisible to the customer so customers here read and see eligible in tons of the website and in terms of The telephone service. If we even treat the third party as very much part of the the older more ill family so impersonal savings. It definitely has to market quickly with no customer detriments on the thing they do is well. They bring us operational bandwidth so when you'll having periods of high demand they have the operational capacity to be able to cope without in way. That would be more challenging if we had in house in the case of baseba savings that came along two years later in two thousand twelve and the same third party at the time didn't have a corresponding business savings module. So instead we worked with a with a separate supplier Fintech who were able to develop a most bespoke solution to sutan needs. And also we used our own internal eligible colleagues full for the customer services team both teams based in the uk thing. That's quite important In the uk. Savings market. I think that model a split model if you liked provides a degree of operational resilience but also allows us to diversify funding. As you as you said it's wet really well but the outside world and also inaudible It's it's very you know. Look c in here older more the fact that we use the policy is purely purely for on an operational convenience and flexibility. They very much live and breathe the old more values. If like us already interesting. Point as you'll be aware that bought to provide myself allen. I'm one of the things that struck me is. The is the difference between the providers at used them in times of of some Treated very trends actually A south clearly integrate them as paul of the team and having to have them as an extension of the the brian robin trae them as a separate entity. And i think that makes a huge amount of difference in terms of the result. She get back as a as a consequence absolutely. I mean we. We very much called them. As as paul. The team i mean. I don't differentiate particularly between whether they say you know in the third party all all set within itself. As far as i'm concerned we're all supporting the deal savings proposition. And we'll pray as as one team got out actually about some particular about our personal savings operation an example of how we really obsess about customers. May we talked you about 'em customer feedback loops and ratings and reviews but we also really take the trouble to make sure that the the offline processing if light when people have a reason to to speak with us all as good as they can be in a most customers in savings are happy sue self-serve most people will open their account online and service online. But there are occasions when online processes don't really lend themselves particularly well so if i think about various aspects of kind of customer and ability or whether it's those kind of emotionally intense processes like for example bereavements or am things like power of attorney where they're in a quite a quite high risk quite emotional processes quite complex processes in many ways. Actually they don't lend themselves particularly well to 'em online processing and that's where i think the power of an established human Team really support your proposition. Because those kind of moments of truth. So-called can off really am color your relationship and so i think about stability. That could that blend of always all really convenient digital servicing for most people most of the time complemented by great people service. When you need it is is a powerful and relevant proposition for the time that rent. Absolutely we've talked about What has gone on i. If we can tend to the future. I interested in what your plans going forward to. What you have in your sleep for his feet Yeah absolutely i would Whatever you can share very interested. She'll what i'll shed walk. I'm able to james. I mean. I think the first thing i'd say is a took on earlier. Actually we do. We do not but unity to too narrow for now across the ultimate family if you like savings has an old more tended to be Operation relative isolation to its lending businesses. I think we recognize that. It's more we can do in terms of distribution savings across a mortgage business and now an sme lending and corporate lending businesses something. That's one opportunity that i think we will will definitely get behind I think about some of the interesting kind of product to market opportunities I mean since the demise of help to buy eissa last year still figs opportunity in in the uk market for savings to so a step up and support first time bias. They have a to real pain points. If you think about it one is they need to build capital for a deposit mostly but also they need to build a record if he like full credit worthiness and i think there's Particularly with the demise of health by sir. We think there's an opportunity to build a proposition which is talked to the first on violence or potential. I on buyers lincoln game with the so-called bunk commitment dot and really trying to tackle those key pain points around getting on a housing ladder assay building capital as well as building a credit credit profiled as well so that's kind of one area that i think is worth worth exploring. I think in terms of the more here and now i mean this has been interesting year. Hasn't it to so to say the least which we could probably. What is what it's doing. Rose james i think he's kind of led us to fill some gaps in portfolio as we saw it cycle with the so fluctuations in demand. So i think one of the areas that this is not new to the market would be to older more betwixt this sort of restricted access market. So-called so those accounts that kind of sit between pure easy access and say fixed rates. And i think that's an interesting market space again. I think it's wipe the times the idea that you offer people higher rate than they might get wise from easy access but also with some some accessibility that you would get with a with a fixed rate. Something that's quite interesting interesting spice as well so that that's kind of two areas that were particularly looking out i think if i think about the servicing proposition talked about this combination of digitally human I think you can always investing digital processes. I mean the website is our only shop. Now we have a branch network we don't distribute through brokers so i- website is an online journey is our is our only journey so by definition we have to continuously invest in that customer experience. Whether it's a cow or or count servicing so we obsess about presented customers who drop out of the journey. My mind is It's a crime that somebody is taken the trouble to to find you still an application for some reason Not get to the end and we really need to make sure we get better at improving those those digital conversion rates and not happen to replace those lost customers with but by trying to find elsewhere through three marketing or pricing to that kind of continuous investments. In in the journey. Emma talked about some of the the the offline processes and some of these more complex. Ones way. I just think we take a fresh look at those processes that they can often go wrong. There often source of complaints. I think those will complex emotionally intense processes. You just gotta get them right. I really think about how to do that. Eating a combination of digital but also people people say this as well. So i think you know about you. Questioning is a combination of mock opportunity for development and a customer experience with the three main headings. The restricted access paces is israeli interesting it starts at to gang lopin momentum race now think the Increasingly a recognition that the law of people want to retain some form of access. But that doesn't necessarily mean that they want to be in and out of that savings account All the time. It's kind of security. I think isn't it will must knowing that you can get out of it if you need up but it's The doesn't necessarily mean as a save you. You want to do that correct. I think it's one of those kind of best of both worlds. Yeah i think it really does feel like it's right for the times. I know there's already so it's not. It's not innovative in that sense. We feel it's a gaping arrange least undone you know. It's one of those products. Offing appeals to people. Because when you want the money but but knowing that you can get access to it. I think is important in a way that with a fixed right by definition is locked away. We've seen we've seen a huge amount of new inventions comments to the savings balk in the the pasta decades. The you set the set. The ball rolling. It's been around fifty now mixture of new boston citizen existing bravado. He went in the mulkey of come. Come in there's more on the on the why. I think. I think we might see some This month What sort of challenge does pays a foldable. I think first of all you have to accept the that will competition is is ultimately good thing particularly for consumers of course because they tend to come in with with good rights and more choice but also think is an existing provider. It keeps you on your toes. Severely it kind of shows that you will continuously innovating across the pace really. So i i do think it's ultimately a good thing. I think what's interesting about the. Uk market is despite that growth in rivalry as you say. James o'keefe still a huge gap between the challenge of community on on the knowledge established banks. Now whether you look through through the lens of of rates all service or experience that's water between the challenges on the on the incumbents something you know despite the rising competition there's still plenty of market to go full. I mean the market remains very concentrated even now in probably something like three quarters of the market is probably still accounted for by the four five banking brands in the uk. even even higher in business savings. Actually so there's plenty of market space despite the growth in rivalry. And i think it just say basically drives innovation on his ultimate good good for savers. I think it's going to be particularly interesting. Protect essentially like show. The has a number of Seen that around locations that are taking longer to get free this year than would be expected because of the way we could see a light a light run the share a storm strong stop the twenty twenty one potentially some big names in there with him all contracts than exactly joe lewis. I think what's interesting about the nature of the new entrance. Mean they really do span the spectrum they so as you say it will have the the merchant banks looking to build a retail franchise of see most notably. Marcus but then as you to people at j.p. Morgan kareem to be answering and and the other end of the spectrum. You've got these very small almost fintech providers so it's quite interesting. The gulf israel diversity in the in the size and nature of the new entrance suddenly the the merchant bank model is a a very destructive woman in got deep pockets. They they can Use penetration pricing very effectively of the what. Marcus have done in recent years so that they represent a bigger threat. It's fair to say Sensitive to lights available in the market steadily the market is still so concentrated. There's plenty of space to go round. There's plenty of headroom for all these. New browns und- the existing john's eubanks to distill grow. We start you. Don't feel old -able in any way market constrained despite the rise in rivalry. There still plans to go out. I think as long as you keep innovating and ensuring that. There's this gap between yourselves away. Most of the money still as which is in the biggest banks. Then the opportunity remains graphing missy. A huge mock is now she to one point seven trillion in size. So there's there's plenty rile still is a hugely changing market in the in the past that kaido siwa. What do you think we're going to say the next few keys. Well i guess most oviously and significantly the interest rate environment obviously remains very low ultra-low by historic standards and by definition not stuff's not great for savers. Something good news for the boards of course based not good for savers outlook Is expected to remain low for foreseeable future. I think the point tastes though. It's all about the relative position than than than the absolute james so despite rates that even start with zero the market is still such that you can get fifty eight hundred times where interest With a challenge count with a with an established bank if paradoxically say was probably more rate-sensitive given the light writing environment because they're trying to find that elusive years and they're trying to find a real rate of return so i think that's probably obvious. Economic backdrop got this sort of the prospect of negative rates. Being talked about quite a lot of the moment. i mean personally. I think that's probably a distant prospect understand. The rationale behind it you know to stimulate the economy. I think as far as savings is concerned. It represents a kind of existential threat. If if that was to happen. I mean the very notion that you have to pay to have your savings. Bank is kind of a whole new paradigm and if i actually could lead tool source intended consequences holding of cashel. Oh shifting soon riskier. Equities equity based product so. I think they be interesting to watch. But my favorites that the that the kill of mexican interest rates might be might be worse than the disease. If you like. I think the trend on pick out on its particularly true. This year is I think the crisis has probably exposed. Just how precarious many people's a household finances all We've we've we've surveyed several groups this year and it surprising well percents use of people have sought it sue to prioritize savings particularly among younger people. One of the paradoxes of the of the crisis. If you're in work and being paid than the chances all your expenses gone down and that came through as show you know earlier in the in the same grew very strongly in the first half of this year in really really strong growth as people spend less at consequently site bowl. I mean the market softened debate in recent months. But i do think the the crisis has been been a wakeup call for many people to to sort of increase that level of rainy day. Savings and build out financial am resilience. We talked about new entrance. I think they will definitely keep coming ultimately say good good for consumers and keeps the incumbents on their toes i think innovation in products still to come as interesting in a low yield low rate environment. You'll start seeing. The emergence of these kind of different ways of paying interests. Are these apprised rule. Based accounts for example and also think we might see the return of structured products by consumer market these products for combination of capital protection on the on the potential for higher returns linked to external indices. Now on the. I accept these of how checkered reputation. And i think the current kind of conduct regime is now such. You'd have to demonstrate very rigorous Product design very rigorous distribution and. I think he pass those tests. There's no reason why these parts could be a choice full of some customers. I think mobile apps will develop in the customer journey. I mean relatively unusual out stunt alone features in the uk market and the tends to be linked to current accounts. But i think it's inevitable that mobile apps plenty become increasingly politics. Nicole service for savings as well so they will look across the future. I think moderate symptoms of rates competition product development malky development. I think there's still lots of interesting things to to work on 'em and ultimately these all good things for consumers and the crisis. Nobody wants to the crisis. That's nice but if it does lead to an increase in the savings ratio and an improvement in people's financial resilience than that must be a good thing. Yeah i agree i agree. I you mentioned the the the right cut. Sylvia sleigh hall ought to have any compensation robot savings at the moment without mentioning the national side's investment. Yes significant cots i. Recently i am. We'll we'll sort of impact diesel say the having on on salves the why the market huge impact. James i mean there's no doubt. Ns annoy have you had a profound impact on on the retail savings market on in many ways distorted the market. I mean they had best buy pricing full lots of this year. They certainly absorbed you know a lot of the market inflows and then of course. They recently announced dramatic rate cuts which take effect to the end of november. So we're seeing a real See social strategy there and there's no doubt that they've had a major impact on the market and underplays within that market particularly the smaller players. Councils in in that because we tend to appeal to the mall. Right sensitive customer than i think we've tended to lose out as it were by priced aggressively earlier in the year but conversely we're probably down gaining as people leave them so i think you had had a big impact. It'll be really interesting to see how plays out. Actually because they have a net financing to all get hit by the government and so it's quite possibly my mind if they see sustained material outflows over the next few weeks months than it seems reasonable to me that they might actually end to the market potentially in twenty one your hit that same dot net financing target so an interesting one Currently say they've they're about to go white down the right tables. So i think in the short term. It's going to be how the market deals without some likely increasing outflows coming out venison. Oy and where that money ends up whether ends up. Pin people's current accounts all more likely as people seek yield inches. The john jay banks. I think it's been. It's been really interesting to see how how it goes. Agree review on the and that flaunting talk at all. I think the the cuts are so severe that saw the a change in that fundraising dog. I think they will be forced to come back on some of the pricing. In the it's to make sure that they hit a saga for the for the for the march and the end of that. The iphone on a high tease a caveat analogy. But i think we've got the The first wave of Imperative of the nance what we've really kind of took them straight away. But i think we're in a calm before the the second mike which will come later this month with with people sitting as simul Point making Anything like what. So what i'm getting. So i'll i'll milk and then amend shifts. I think we're in for another period of Later this month when when that money starts to shift the indications that the still a significant amount of activity. It's the way still get on the the scenario website local home suggests associate fatty high volumes. Which i think will. I need any increase neighbor to that deadline for the so the changes but i think december is traditionally quite a quite for saving sunny full for driving inflows tends to be a month of outflows of course but a spa this month. This year are there are spending might be quite different. I think december could be an interesting as you say many flows out and people actually once they got get through the wait times or or the website times that they will actually look for a fresh home for that for that money. So yeah. I think it's gonna be interesting. Unlike you. i do think they may. Well returns the market at some point. Next year i think the also Another current environment with people in lockdown diamonds. Biglaw going to be around after might the yes quite nice kohl's and an local an an action half the patients to sit wait savings taking a bit longer. Ways may be in other times april goal. Not yet i caught red company. Volvo is not worth the hassle. Where i think the mean people in a goal time the arrival to do that so i think it'd be really interesting to follow a tokyo Slot e-even towards politics. The vicious been busy today announcing stench us escape you chancellor for the what's your what's the one. He said the how things on his mind and savings. But if you are able to focus on an you in his shoes what we what would you be. Well what yeah. I'm allowed to james kopp. Yeah okay so. I would first of all i would definitely bring in the proposals around here. So single easy access rate so. This is the consultation. Yes yeah you're doing. Which in effect is about Obliging providers to publish and set a single easy access rate for That personal savings and also they're easy access cash losses and we think that's a great idea. It's basically very customer centric. It's is transparent by definition it promotes competition and switching on the consumer. I think the essay estimated about two hundred and sixty million of potentially higher interest payments. That could be could be generated. I mean an ultra will. We've already got a factory here. We've only ever had one goto rates on our reactors account. You know we've we've never used introductory rates so in effect. We're already kind of see already if you like. But i think in in the modern context is it's a it's an important development. I think it's a way of nudging people to consider whether they can get a better rate. A lot of the money in savings is still concentrated in in the biggest banks paying next to nothing and so i think the initiative is is a welcome for for consumers and competition generally saw first one. I'm a second one if i may is Around the tax environment. Full for savings. Which i think probably could do with some simplification can take the the regime. It is quite complex. And of course you know the the personal savings allowances as well so it seems to me that the government could potentially create know a single tax rapper in some white combining the existing regimes and really they use that to actively promote people to To save more. I think in doing that. James i'd also find a way to consciously bias that tax favorability towards maybe the lower income or younger age groups. Ooh let's face. It need need to save more whether it's whether it's first time buyers or or or just rainy day. I think the coyote crisis as really exposed some people's precarious financial position. So whether it's air or whether it's the tax treatment i do think the government can probably should take action to ultimately drive higher savings ratio in this country. I asked brady. I'm not so sure myself. On the half activists say it will be but what what a day think he's actually That would be that will never be a better time than this to actually get it. Get it threatening. You've got molchan samantha. Gang gang people within the industry to sign up to it. I i guess. I'm in the camp of ascent Sending perspective. Anything that would would help. And the listen to me all right. Anything in Big fan of of simplify the tax savings for aging. It was beautifully. Simple when it's Become anything A in recent days and agree review on the being able to get to to get started and get get saving. I think that helped to save that. A camera knows Bowl team was Was a really good idea but role executed of think a revamp of of something like thoughts Would be would be would be really. I think keeping it simple and to be able to pass the test old being able to ask somebody in the street and could you almost spontaneously be able to describe. The treatment. sounds a bit duffy. Say that but the ability for people to get it quickly and easily gas grow arms and legs over the as you know when intended arms and legs but yes. I think there was an opportunity to simplify rationalize and both agreeing actually to just to find a way to In some way in by state to those people that that needs to be saving rather than as we are rewarding. People who've already saved. Swear i think the government can and should probably savane. Yeah i i think unfortunately math to white slow wall for for that body hype it's I think posted on the agenda but it's been pushed pushed down bonday hype becomes guests yet. We two year in. It's been absolute pleasure to storch has been really fast interested show to Thank you very much for coming on. it's harm it's been it's been pretty interesting is good good. Listen thank you james. I related to. Thanks very much. You tight cash thank you.

uk boesky james first round group Motor nova iraq james eleven years ma south moore United tikal Fintech sutan brian robin eissa fsis Rose james fca cardiff Stein edwards
How to Drive Revenue Using Content Marketing

OC Talk Radio

23:53 min | 2 years ago

How to Drive Revenue Using Content Marketing

"Introducing the new buttermilk crispy chicken biscuit at McDonald's. We don't need that music made with tender chicken. Let's lose the echo on a warm buttermilk biscuit perfect juicy simplicity of our buttermilk. The crispy chicken biscuit speaks for itself. Get it now for just three bucks and get a two dollars sausage mcmuffin with egg or a one dollars small hot coffee all from the one two three dollar menu simply your breakfast at McDonald's prices and participation vary cannot be combined with any other offer Combo meal breath welcome once again for another episode host today Roy Morgan demand sponsor as well that was sales manager marketing demand welcome back to another episode of revenue rebels. I'm really excited today to welcome Christie go nuccio. She is the V._p.. Of Strategic Teaching Marketing at L._L.. Our Partners Kristy translates actionable growth advice from ehlers portfolio companies from their network of senior operators and from the L. Our team itself they pull all all of this amazing content into digital and live content events and resources this work that Christie is doing creates opportunities for sharing best practices among business leaders. She's also the head of all I love L.. L. Ours Brand P._R.. And Social Media Presence Christie. Can you share a little bit with the listeners about what L. Our partners does and your role there so in the private Equity World L.. Our partners is considered a growth equity investor so that means that we're putting capital into fairly mature businesses not startups help them accelerate their growth and the ways they can use that capital can be things like expanding their operations entering new markets making acquisitions building out their sales and marketing teams a lot of times. That's like a sales development team but it's all for the purpose of growing their business admire old L. are is to primarily be brand champion and to lead all all of our marketing efforts like you mentioned earlier that includes content social media P._R.. Everything you see in our digital presence on the web and it's all for the primary goal of not only helping US source opportunities but as all talk about more in this podcast really nurturing and opportunities for the firm also cool and so today hey what we're I mean. There's so much that we talk about we could it sounds like have easily five podcasts but today this is a topic that is near and dear to my heart. We're talking about driving revenue using content marketing and to be clear to everybody out there listening. The topic of content supports the goals of both marketing and sales so I really see this as you know. <hes> marketing and sales are teams go hand in hand and content is something that supports everything anything in between so I also WanNa let everybody know that this is a two part series today. We're going to be focusing on building your strategy and then we'll be back with partout on executing through the strategy. Why don't we start by talking about the challenges? Challenges that you were trying to address when you launch the content marketing initiative at L. are what was the impetus to putting some resources behind this rabbit equity is a very crowded market today but a lot of firms out there they kind on of capital being invested and what that means is that the C._e._O.'s of the gross state agencies that we're targeting. They're the same people that every other private equity firm was trying to reach so they're getting calls and emails from potential investors and bankers and all kinds onto folks kind of in our ecosystem every day not to mention. They're actually trying to run a business so they're very very busy at the same time. They're thinking about raising capital. It's a very very long term decision so it's very rare that the AH wake up one morning morning day. It's time for me to raise private equity money. I'M GONNA go out and find an investor higher banker and get this started and be done with it and six months when we initially connect with the C._e._o.. It could be anywhere from three months to three years or even more before you really get into the conversation the diligence and actually actually you know potentially invest in that business so are towns that once we start a conversation with a company and it's usually with the C._e._o.. We have to show value ongoing. We have to position ourselves top of mind like I said months later years later when it does come time for that E._E._o.. To choose a private equity partner and knowing all of that L. are made a commitment a couple of years ago to be different about the way we go to market in the way we present our brand and we wanted to be smarter about how we nurtured. Relationships Egypt's with those companies that were talking to. That's really where the content marketing comes in. I'll say up front that my focus is really not about brand new legion. It's much more about nurturing relationships ongoing and about us being able to look at the engagement analytics with content in order to be smarter about how we're differentiating ourselves our living and breathing our brand and how we're trying to translate those relationships into real doesn't opportunity a couple of the keywords that I pulled out of there were so you know being able to look at the analytics around the content which I think is is not always the easiest thing to do right because rights looking at other sort of channel engagement but content specific is tougher and then also nurturing those has relationships which takes a lot of time as you said I mean especially depending on your industry. You guys could be must but it's probably more like hoarders or or years we often hear about business. Leaders have really great ideas for content that we're all shore will engage prospects better. They don't realize that it's going to it's going to take rather to pull it all together and then you can't be a one and done sort of approach rights really does that require that strategy an clear plan so can you walk us through a little more around how alar develop the strategy to reach you guys have a very targeted audience really specific. What does that look like Georgia so our target audience is CEO's and can be C._F._O.'s of gross stage businesses one thing that was really an key to our success early on about developing the strategy was recognizing that we didn't necessarily have to reinvent our brand to that audience we you just need to articulate better how we're different and act on it in a way that was more effective ours been around for twenty years? We've always been focused on giving our portfolio companies access to knowledge and expertise that they need to grow on top of providing them capital to support their growth plan. We're giving them a lot of resources and sort of this this depth of knowledge that we have in our organization and within our network to help them in areas like talent and sales and marketing and finance and a and all those things where they're gonNA put capital into you're growing but they need more than money. They need advice. They need for the best practices on how to do it but the thing is all that insight really lived inside our head and it had never been co defied in a way that new audiences outside of our portfolio companies could access it and apply it to their own. Businesses that's perfect of content strategy right so the content is already. There and I think that that's really critical to developing a strategy is looking at what you already have access to persons trying to re invent something brand new and seeing how you can harness that and codified it into a format like a written format <hes> and share it with others so that though growth bits were born we branded it growth degree term and I've spent the last two years working with our portfolio you leaders or advisers are board directors in our internal experts. The two right nine hundred thousand word posts put them out every other week to share this content with our audiences to kind of bring this knowledge out of our heads put it on paper and send it out through <hes> mostly email and social media and once got into a strong cadence of producing it we added other types of formats like e books and industry related content but I can't wait to hear more about some of the other types of content in the technology and everything that you guys have have put in place in order to make this happen. It does look like it is time for us to take a quick break. We will take a moment just to hear a little bit more about demand Blab. Stay tuned. We'll be right back with Christine. UTO were discussing driving revenue through content marketing yeah and we just want to give you a quick reminder. The today's episode of `Sella May <hes> is brought to you by demand lab which helps organizations like yours transformed the revenue potential by connecting their greatest assets people processes technology and data they do through a customized revenue ecosystem solution by leveraging marketing technology data science governance and analytics as well as good content demand lab helps B. Two B. Organizations advanced business goals and drive revenue. Isn't that what it's all about you WANNA learn more simply visit their website demand labs and find all the different solutions. They have available at demand lab DOT COM. THAT'S DEMAND LAB DOT COM demand the best right with that. Let's pick it back up second half of our show. Thank you so much Paul. Let's jump right back in Christie. Can you tell us how technology plays into your strategy gravity. How have you blended content efforts with technology to drive success so our website is the hub for where we house all of our content and it's where other people are audiences can access it? That's where our distribution channel is primarily email and there's a host of tools behind the scenes that make that happen in the smartest way possible. We like Zanger <hes> so Japan lab we do we work with run your firms you manage Marchetto Hora which is a big help for me because I'm a team of one I don't have technical knowledge to do it myself or technical resource internally to do it so we outsource to your from then we manage all of our contacts until force and we spent a lot of time over the last few years testing and tweaking saying that Marquette in salesforce integration to make sure that we can segment our contacts in the right way and that we have access to the analytics and the right data in the right places within salesforce and it's mostly being drawn from our ghetto for us to be able to look at both our audience is engaged with our content holistically and then an individual contact record level so that we can determine in action plan on how we should follow up with the contact once we see how they're engaging with our content segmentation again data and analytics and also one to one communication to actually be able to see us the back end of your platforms to see how best to communicate and engage with with your audience so we recently had a guest on the podcast who talked about the importance of audience segmentation and you know the impact that it delivers in terms of being able to really connect with your targeted customers and prospects and really drive. I bat customer experience right and drive them to action. How does L. L. R. Years Segmentation to personalise its outreach? I think it's first important to note that we only send our contact content content to individuals that L. O.. R. Has connected with one on one via phone or an in person meeting in addition we send it to people who have proactively visit our site and subscribe to our content so we're not buying list or not marketing to people people with whom we've never had any interaction sure we could have a whole separate podcast about the complaints reasons behind this but also for I think it's critical that brand message as well. We're not trying to force ourselves on to people that we don't know through our content but instead we're nurturing those relationships so the segmentation comes in a couple of minutes we generally keep all of our company executives contacts together in one large segment and so they're the ones that receive the new growth bits every other week along with anyone on who had subscribed and the others have our audiences referral sources and investment bankers people who could introduce us to them and if they choose to opt into our content which they do then we send it to them as well but as our library has grown and because we have one on one conversations nations with these core Turkey IOS just prompted them receiving our content we're able to now segment them by the growth areas that they tell us in conversations are challenging them the most so we have a market development team here that functions like a sales development team and when they're caught talking them one on one. They're also taking notes and ourselves for a system and so as an example if a C._E._o.. Shares in that conversation that his primary goal for this year is to create a sales development program we can adam to nurture campaign and features several different growth pets. We've written over the last two years that talk about how to lunch and S._D._R.. Program at a higher train and onboard S._D._R.'s and even had a hand off lead effectively to sail. That's one way that we can segment them by topic big interest the other one is by industry so L. alarm invest in several different industries including FINTECH industrial tech and healthcare those are three where I worked specifically with those investment teams to develop content for that audience and make sure that our distribution distribution strategy targets them only earlier this year we created an info graphic about all of the key areas of Fintech that we think are most exciting for twenty nineteen and therefore that's where we're looking to invest and then we have gone through in written content piece about each one of those segments and we're rolling them out over time but we're only sending them to the fintech specific companies in our database so that we know that that content is highly relevant for them. One of the things sort of cursing. We're talking talking is that you guys do have really targeted audience and it's it's pretty specific and you have such an incredible process. I think in system down one of the challenges that some companies might have that are in different spaces says which you know a lot of our listeners will be is scaling. So how do you scale that personal collection of interest in it to me. It's around planting the seeds on your website so perhaps that also might be something that you guys <hes> are doing already but when you're able to use your platforms to see where people are visiting it's either going to be planting the season your website or within looking at being able to track and categorize your blog posts us into different product or <hes> interests and that sort of thing and even developing the content itself. You know you've got great tools out there. Agree can distribute content so that helps you uncover as a person should even doing a self evaluation. In or exploring something some piece distributed you can actually learn a bunch about them so there are other ways to do that without having to do that. One on one I mean you guys are getting the richest possible information by being able to talk one on one with these folks beforehand. Yeah personalization to is is our next step. We're putting the pieces in place to make sure that we have the right data in salesforce in order to personalize our emails more <hes> from a content standpoint in terms of who they're coming from as well <hes> but also looking at things like when they get their first growth but team we actually than than what we call a welcome to growth bits email after we'd had that initial qualification phone call and it has four different pieces that cover four different topics one thing that we're considering is looking at all right well. What's the first one they click on? Which one of these do they think is most interesting and that's an indicator of what topic is interesting to them and so if we don't have them kind of manually entered into a nurture campaign? That's more of automated way to do it so there's a lot of different options there. I've personally spoken with a number of P._e.. Firms that would love to replicate what you guys are doing yet. I know you have we had that conversation and MHM ring you guys up. They say we want to do what they're doing yet. Really struggle for a number of reasons and we don't even need to get into that but Hoti U._C.. L. Ours approach to content marketing as unique compared to what you see in the industry with these I <hes> I get those phone calls a lot and I go to conferences. There's one in the private equity industry. That's really for all of the marketers out there. I get a lot of people saying bad. I'm watching your website and I'm watching your content and your linked in and how do you do to like you mentioned earlier. How do you scale the so? I think there's two very distinct things that make this strategy. L. Are very different number. One is that the real kicker here that every single piece of content every bit post is actionable so as the owner of this content strategy I will not let an interview and or postal I- unless there is really strong actionable insight that a reader can turn around and apply to their business so I will keep asking questions in that interview until we can kind of get down to those he a couple of steps or take away that someone needs to get that can come in a variety of formats that could be a checklist they give that could be a step by step guide template a case study as long as it inspires action in fits into the strategy and the feedback from audience tells us that we hit the mark on that approach so from the very beginning we've gotten very positive feedback and we continue to hear anecdotally when our investment teams come back from a meeting that someone says yeah growth keep them coming. I love this idea and that idea and the things that they can actually couldn't action second. Is that very other very few private. Equity firms are doing this or dedicated the resources and I think you mentioned earlier that you know this. This requires tremendous manage education and I don't think people realize how much goes into creating this content. They start doing it so there are few other firms out there that were our inspiration first round capital open view partners insight venture partners but most others that we try to do content start a corporate blog it's written by their own investment professionals calls and they struggle to come up with what you're right and how to write it. I have a great network of other marketing leaders P From and they're always talking about how challenging that is to keep it up. Keep it interesting. We took a different approach. All the content comes from these topical experts we know that that's more important to our audience and that they love to hear from their peers so why not draw the insight from their peers and share it out with them. It's also great personal branding as well to bring the executive leadership of the companies that <unk> are part of your portfolio to the forefront. Let give them a voice. I can't imagine any executive who wouldn't be interested in sharing some of their thinking right. It's a win win win win win great leadership opportunity for them so with that with the actionable. Actionable insights requirements you know we are coming to a close. These podcasts are never long enough for me as I say I think at the end of everybody every podcasts. Are there any tips that you would share to our listeners about building a strategy out or is there anything that you wish you had known a couple of years ago. When you started this that you think could be helpful to our listeners? One thing I mentioned earlier is to look for content inspiration around you. Look at what already exists uh-huh. You don't necessarily have to come up with something brand new. You can leverage things around you all the time. Maybe there are documents being put together. Maybe there are ways that your firm is advising. These companies templates that they're sharing internally that you can can sanitizer you can adjust a little bit and you put out there. It's content. Also you have to find the people who are genuinely excited about this to participate and get it started. It's really hard to to walk into your executive team and say guess what we're going to start a blog and you're they're all gonna write for it unless those individuals really want to do it and are onboard from the beginning and our personally enthusiastic about it. It's GonNa be a struggle the hallway I think starting small with the people who really want to do it and see the value who see the the thought leadership opportunity and let them get started use them encourage them to be sharing everything on linked in and sort of gather those little stories about how it can be successful and how it not too demanding on their time and then you can start this l. at more internally like that. The third thing I'll say is the quality of the writing you have to have good writers and maybe you have those inside your organization baby. You have to find someone outside your organization that we did. Our primary writer is the head of content for demand lab and she hit the nail on the head right from the beginning in terms of our approach. I think we got really lucky in that sense. It's hard to find great writers but it's worth the time in order to have the quality content that you need yeah and I also know that you guys did some solid work upfront to establish. You're messing architecture your brand voice. All of these other communists works. You guys did probably eighteen months to two years ago to make sure that there was clarity. which actually is what supports even though you have a great writer it supports them during the voice getting where you're coming from? It's a pretty heavy lift and I'm always really impressed with what you've been doing thank you. It's very exciting. We are at the end of our time and probably ran over a a little bit. Thank you so much for joining us today Christie. I love the conversation I think our listeners will get a ton out of it. What is the best way for our listeners to reach? You can always get to me at k. d. e. l. m. u.. T. O. AT L. OUR PARTNERS DOT com. You can also go to our website. L L OUR PARTNERS DOT com and you can find my picture in the team section and my email address there as well m- always happy to talk to people better strategy will good and a big thank you to our listeners for tuning in today to another episode of Revenue Rebels. I'm your host Rhone. Morgan and you can find me on Lincoln by looking up demand lab and searching for our H.. A. N. Morgan and wow back over to you Paul. You've been listening to another episode. Revenue Rebels monthly program right here in the radio show part of the Funnel Radio Network for our listeners. Hi It's Jamie Progressive's employee of the month two months in a row leave a message at the Hi Jamie. It's me Jamie. I just had a new idea.

Christie Revenue Rebels executive development team writer marketing and sales L. Our McDonald Strategic Teaching Marketing US Jamie Progressive Kristy Fintech A. N. Morgan sales manager Roy Morgan first round capital Japan Georgia
Dirty 1 (Friday)

Mojo In The Morning

05:10 min | 11 months ago

Dirty 1 (Friday)

"Good morning guys thanks to everybody that's listening to us this morning ran the iheartradio APP or you're listening to us on Channel Nine, five, five trait one, four point, five s and x and grand rapids or ninety to five Kiss F. M. in Toledo and we've got a look at what's trending this hour Shannon with the dirty on the thirty. Shocked viewers of Drew Barry. Moore's talk shown by summoning the spirit of throughs dead relatives on the air. Little Problem Dude is very much still ali'i. psychics name is in Ramadi and see gave drew a reading on the show. This is last week and I'll play the part. She said she sensed the aura of this specific person who a judge there's some. David who is this? That's ruth. Son who died okay. They are together. Okay. They're together but this. Is completely around you. Okay. Like you're so pulled into your family like you needed this family. So you still very close to them. Really. Really. Close with wills family and My girls to have. David is relative of Drew Barrymore's x has been will complement who. Again, Andrew said this had died well, Judge David Koch is to years old he's doing just fine will Cohen said. Like look drew, I, have a really amicable co-parenting relationship were really close I I still continue to cheer her on. Her talk show, he said that being said, the segment was a salad laugh considering my uncle judge David Coleman is still very much. Did Not know he was still alive. Not Have Known. Life but still the psychic. He was. Talking, to her from the spirit world photos. No either it's awesome. Home Improvement Stars, Zachary, ty Bryan who played red-tailed on the so was slapped with some felonies yesterday, and this has to do with that story. I've been telling you about a week or two now the story of him strangling his ex girlfriend he was charged with strangulation and coercion both felonies plus six misdemeanors on top of that his girlfriend gave us some more insight into what happened on this particular occasion. She said that he had woken her up pulled out of bed by her hair and started beating her all while shouting at. At her he was pissed off about some missing cell phone charts ours. She told police that Zachary had become physically abusive toward her in the last month and things came to ahead on Friday when he punched and slapped her in the head and also in the face multiple times she claims he also choked her to the point that she thought she was. Going to suffocate and he put his knee in the back of her neck. This poor girl said, she broke free called nine one one he disconnected the line he was standing right next to her when dispatchers called her back when the police finally arrived an officer said, he noticed blood swelling and bruising on her Zachary ty Bryan has been released on bail. A judge in Minnesota dismissed a degree murder charge filed against the former. Minneapolis police officer who pressed his knee again stored fluids neck leading to his death. The judge said there was not enough probable cause for that count specifically to proceed to trial against the guy that's show show. Yes now they did the judge did find probable cause for children to be tried on one count of Unintentional second degree murder and one count of second degree manslaughter. So he's still facing those to charge of the more severe stuff. Yes. Yeah. He also found probable cause to move forward with the aiding and abetting counts against three other former officers involved into. Gets blown blows me away that the guys out on bail. That's crazy. Gase yesterday the state released the Briana Taylor. Documents the transcripts of. AGO that and it was shocking to me to read now that the jurors allowed to talk they're all saying that endangered neighbor thing was the only thing they were allowed to to decide on. They weren't allowed to decide on any charges actually involving Brianna you see the interviews, Matthew or that Michael Strahan Zeman doing on Good Morning America this week. We play the audio of it. It was earlier this week he was with. The officers actually each day he had a couple of different. kind of went back and forth with people with that in his interviews actually we're really really good. and. Lastly, some sports dirty for you. The NBA draft going to be held virtually. No surprise here ESPN studios on November eighteenth and be a commissioner. Adam. Silver will be in the studio over at ESPN to announce the selections for the First Round Deputy Commissioner Mark Tatum will be in studio to announce the second round. Some of the top players will join the telecast virtually as well for all of today's dirty check out that dirty page on in the morning dot com. When can we virtually do the show? Is there any way that we virtually do? You say okay. All right FRY. Normal Friday, virtually the bar. Man.

Zachary ty Bryan Judge David Koch David Coleman Drew Barry officer ty Bryan Drew Barrymore Briana Taylor Ramadi Good Morning America Commissioner Mark Tatum Shannon Moore Michael Strahan Zeman second degree murder First Round F. M. Toledo bruising Minneapolis
Creating Scalable Content with Camille Ricketts, Head of Marketing at Notion

Marketing Trends

54:42 min | 2 years ago

Creating Scalable Content with Camille Ricketts, Head of Marketing at Notion

"I'm Alec Baldwin and you're listening to marketing trends and the leads aren't we hello and welcome to marketing trans. This is producer Ben Wilson Today's episode features in interview with Camille Meal Ricketts. Camille is the head of marketing at notion and all in one workspace for notes tasks quickies databases Commu also previously served as the head of content and marketing at first round capital content manager at Kiva and communications manager at Tesla Motors on this episode Camille Talks about how to create great content. She discusses how do identify content that will resonate with your target market how to build an audience and how to capitalize on a great content marketing strategy as usual here a few highlights content particularly when it comes from a company only release succeeds if it is really high utility like I just helped you do something you wanted to do today or <hes> emotional in a way that makes you feel less alone on the planet planet people thought that they could get the full story of how to do something because every single first-round peace and we actually codified this in a manifesto that lives on the site every single review he's had to deliver tactical advice that could be used is by a reader immediately. I think that for the bulk of content that's produced by companies. That's <hes> extremely important that you are offering some sort of utility or some sort of next action next step and I'm not saying that that next action needs to be clicking on a button thing by but the next action should be looking forward to the next newsletter or the next action should be something that's that's actually important to the person who is in the audience thinks once again to Camille for coming on the show so without further ado here's our interview with Camille Ricketts Head of marketing at Notion Marketing Trans is brought to you by salesforce dot B._B.. Marketing Automation on the world's number one C._R._M.. Are you ready to take your B._B.. Marketing to new heights with product marketers can find nurture leads close more deals and maximize R._O._I.. Learn more by visiting dot dot com slash podcast or click on the link in our show notes. He was your host in face on welcome to marketing trends I mean phase on chief content ouster here admission dot org and across from the in Studio Camille what's going on you know just came down here to Beautiful Palo Alto at sunny and warm. It's really nice. I know it's IT turns from winter to summer here in about an instant <hes> they say we don't have seasons but we have to so super excited to have you on. You are a I. I don't throw the slightly you are a content marketing guru and not just that a content grew. You've done stints at a bunch of companies that our listeners may know of including but not limited to Wall Street Journal Venture Be Tesla Kiva the White House will talk about that and first round capital now notion so we'll get into <hes> will pick our way through some of the BIOS stuff but also we just WanNa talk about you know content marketing corporate storytelling <hes> and how this is applicable to marketers everywhere but first how'd you get into <hes> into marketing in the first place yeah was actually pretty accidental. I started my career really determined and certain that I was going to be a journalist. I came right out of school went right to the Wall Street. Journal had an internship in London read out of the gates transferred to New York and then I got to a point where I thought to myself. Maybe this isn't for me which is a really difficult point in anyone's young career to to have everything built to to sort of this moment and then decide that it was going to go in a different direction <hes> so after that I came back to California worked adventure beat for a while was writing about green technology was still thinking about how I was is going to sort of branch off into something else how it was going to parlay my writing skill from journalism into a different type of career and that's when the V._p.. Of Communications Marketing Ricardo Res- I asked me if I would be interested in applying for a job up on the P._R.. Team at Tesla Motors and that was sort of my first foray outside of journalism and I found myself it's sort of a marketing role that was traditional P._R.. With ben toward content or in I think what's cool about go into a small little company company. <hes> like Tesla's never in the news nothing that exciting going on you know you're just sitting there and nothing's going on. I had to imagine that you know this is two thousand ten to two thousand twelve time line right head to imagine is pretty wild time. It was a very interesting time at the company. Certainly I don't know if I would recommend people who are like. I'm looking for a first P._R.. Job To dive into the deep end quite to that extent totally this was pre model as we were still working with the roadster so my job was primarily early to take the roadster everywhere to show it off to as many journalists as I possibly could take. Do you mean drive in or do you mean literally within my first three months of working at the company they were like okay. You're going to take this car one hundred nine thousand dollar car and you'RE GONNA drive from Washington D._C.. To Boston and you're gonNA stop all along the way talk a small town reporters and that was that was the deep end of defense that is wild. Did you feel like we're you kinda like cozying up Blake. Hey I know I know the job a little bit. I've said in your shoes boy. Do I have a story for you. I think that's honestly why I appeal to the team there. During the interview is that they thought Oh this is somebody who really understands the mentality of journalist and how to talk to them in a way <hes> that is going to make them you know feel like they are understood and what their needs are understood in a way that wouldn't come across his traditional P._R.. Little story at enough. You don't know this actually because we did not talk about it. In the pre interview the first ad that I ever sold was to Tesla and is a printout print ad and so voted it appear in a magazine called Yeah Jobs magazine and we're promoting Tesla's veteran program and that is being built at the time which is really cool and <hes> yeah not a lot of people <hes> selling print ads to Tesla or to its company that does not do advertising yeah. I would say that that probably wasn't top fearless but I remember that campaign. I was actually part of what we're doing trans at the time yeah it was really inspiring and I think that you know this is. It's a good microcosm for when you're in a marketing job and you have a C._e._o.. Who's who he's like? You know hey we we have a certain way of doing things. We don't want to do things in this way and you need to work within those perimeters one of the things that that the team those leading the veteran efforts was if we need to get we need to get this message out in a way that makes sense two people. How do we do that? We need to profile veterans at the company. How do we do that and they kind of snowballed into this? <hes> this thing where it ended up being this like you know really cool ad in this whole story about the veterans that are working Tesla <hes> <hes> in various different levels and it always struck me as is one of the first your huge learning experiences that I had towards how important the story is to the people to the executives on the team to share stories of their employees please because of that is worth paying for like not paying for a picture of a car like that was Lou. That was not part of it so any. I think that there's something related that something. I'm thinking about now in my job at notion. Is that when you are on marketing team or you're a marketing leader you're actually selling several brands. You're not just selling the brand to customers but you also have a talent brand that you're appealing to people who you might want. Try to recruit you. Have it investing brand that you're trying to project perspective investors <hes> you really own one story that gets filtered through many different lenses and that's something that I think Tesla did remarkably well was make people who worked there feel a certain way make people who wanted to work there feel a certain way not just customers who might by the cars yet and it's something that we could do an entire <hes> episode on probably is the idea of aligning product marketing and tonics marketing because talent acquisition smallest budget within the company. You know diversity. I initiative smallest budget within town acquisition so that was one of the things that we were working on early on is like you know hey. If you're promoting you know company that did a great job of this was <hes> Bank of America in there the stadium in Charlotte but I'm pretty sure I'm getting this rate their football stadium for the panthers all of the ads within the stadium. All the Bank of America ads are basically like customer success stories about veterans. Oh that's really it's like and they had a really big veteran program and this was part tired of the marketing that they use was like hey we're gonNA use these stories of like employees and customers and all this stuff to bring awareness or veteran program but also like to showcase our product yeah and also to say these are our values as well. which is I think alluring on an entirely different level for many audiences so flash forward to your job at first round capital and we can weaken we'd back into the others found but a flash forward to you know what are you? which way do you I read I would say is definitely like the most significant let's phase of my career and I think it's where I really came into my own as a content thinker in a lot of ways? I'm not gonNA necessarily say that. I'm a content guru. Though I really appreciate that title you gave me but it was certainly where I gave the most thought to how to tell stories from company perspective <hes> but in a way that wasn't going to feel corporate yet no and so yeah let's let's go into the the first run stuff because I think that it's really relevant for our listeners so first round for those folks who don't know is venture capital firm and we got multiple different folks folks that reach out to us that said we should have Camille on the podcast based off of the content library that you build up first round which is not something that really any other V._C.. Had Ever ferment ever done at that time right yeah. I'd say that we were really lucky on timing. We were one of the first the branch into this direction so you know for for our listeners. It's basically an organization with tons of intellectual capital like tons of smart people and tons of portfolio companies that are bringing your best in class class products and services in and around this like innovation hub and there's no content coming out of this so enter Camille so say that most of he sees prior to what we ended up doing. We're producing content but it was usually usually in the mold of a partner at the firm writing as an individual about market trends about stuff that they were seeing that was interesting about their experiences and what they had learned <hes> and that has value and I think that there's still some firms and partners at firms terms that do a really great job of that very meeker. Oh my gosh she's incredible. I admire her so much for that. I think that the folks tend to recent do a beautiful job. We wanted to do something that was going to be pretty starkly differentiated from that just to like take things up and get more eyeballs and so what we did as we interviewed a bunch of founders about what they felt were still missing and what it was that they wanted more than anything else to help them on this journey and so many of them kept saying I wanNA have coffee coffee with Jeff Weiner from Lincoln. I WanNa have coffee with Stewart Butterfield. I WanNa have coffee with Carol Bartz these types of people but they don't have coffee with up and coming founders. They just don't have the time unfortunately <hes> so we really thought how can we create content. That's is going to be told from the operator's perspective rather than the investors perspective that would take sort of the kernel of that type of coffee advice conversation and scale it to a much larger audience. What was the like why like what was the larger Y of like? Why does any of this even matter rider for for first round <hes> definitely mindshare is the thing that a lot of V._C.? Firms need to be paying attention to it used to be that money was money in money was good and I've heard this great analogy that now now there's so many people out there that are providing this type of funding and it's become so undifferentiated that it's kind of like walking down a grocery store. I'll with a bunch of unmarked cereal boxes and you're not really sure what you're getting when you decide to work with a particular V._C.. Partner so we you really wanted to be the colorful cereal box on the aisle with nutrition facts clearly displayed about what you could expect from working with us and we found that content was going to be the most scalable way to do that and the most scalable way that we could send these messages about what first-round valued which is a supporting operators not just the founders that these companies but the people who were building them alongside the founders that we valued collective wisdom and that we were in the business of extracting acting this and really smart ways to make available not just for our portfolio companies prefer the ecosystem at large so we wanted to project the fact that we had a concentration of knowledge and we were going to be magnanimous about it and I think that are content programme helped send those messages. Risk which is also just a very silicon valley mindset like there's a lot of folks that I think in the past in business have kinda held that stuff internal and not shared stuff outside of the building and I think that this idea of collaboration and you know this healthy competition and collaboration that happens here in Silicon Valley and ultimately like we you know we would say is probably one of the best parts of it. Here is something that is really really exciting like an something you wanNA share. Did you feel that level of excitement as you started building the library I definitely did it. Quickly became apparent just how many stories there were going to be as hell when I I took the job I remember my parents asking like well. How many post could you possibly right about starting startup companies and how many people could possibly be interested in reading those stories but it instantly became clear to me as I was talking about you know how to hire a good engineering leader how how to scale sales operations all of this just the number of nuanced problems in challenges that the people building these companies come across every day and have no resources to answer? They're needing to reason themselves. They're needing to be connected with other people who might help them but might not have the right answer you Google search and you get a bunch of contradictory noise when you're searching for answers to the stuff so it was really exciting to me to not only be able to focus on cool problems but also give really credible advice from people. Oh who deserve to be heard yeah the key thing there is credible because I think it was all key does O'Brien but <hes> but the key thing is there is credible because I think that there's kind of this notion with content that because hustlers more content created than ever before like every day. That's you know more content created than you know. Whatever the one hundred years ago is creating entire? You know we've all heard that stuff and the ideas like do we need more and the answer's absolutely Lee unequivocally yes. It's like who'd be like saying in like you know nineteen hundred we need more books ones that we have are pretty good. We need tons more and I think that one of the things you know obviously that we believe mission because now we have never podcast but is this idea that the practitioners of right now of the cutting edge or working on things that or not going to be cataloged or put into a book for at a minimum year right right so if you can bring in a lot of times people that are will write the book about this you know thing in their life this particular event years from now like we just had <hes> <hes> Frederick Crest that this you'll octa on missile yes launch an awesome podcast but his funny he's charing all these different lessons of building octa and like he sharing this at year ten right right but there's some of those insights there were happening at year one and you're too and year three so if you can bring those insights to people it's extremely valuable. Did you feel like thousands of say absolutely that the one thing that we kept hearing from our audience again and again is that it so refreshing to hear from people who are in it still yes who are actively building actively leading teams trying to figure out all the same problems as them yes so did you find it difficult to kinda sort through the noise in terms of finding great people to talk to <hes> I was really lucky and thrilled to get a lot of signal just from introductions of people initially it was the partners at first round who are all really remarkable humans and have equally remarkable networks and they helped surface a lot of people at set the standard for the type of person who featured and and as we gained some more momentum we were having a lot of inbound choice but we were always able to sort of figure out who was doing something non obvious who is taking a methodology just a step further and that's who we ended up gravitating toward. How did he kinda start from like? What sections did you start with? How big was the team? How did it grow over time? It's at the very beginning this was at the very ground floor of V._C.. Firms not just doing content but doing any sort of platform platform portfolio value add support at all totally and so I joined a team on the operation side of first round that was really just me and events person a talent person <hes> and then sort of our intrepid leader the Sky Brett Burson who's a partner at first-round around now who helped give us direction of what it would mean to be the support squad for all of these companies and then over time that team grew and I think now it's at least twelve people for well <hes> who are doing various things like running this hugely robust mentorship mentorship program at the end of my time. They're our team was throwing. You know sixty plus small dinners a year plus two major summits at least <hes> so there was a lot that was going on so it ended up growing hugely usually in terms of contents I was there for about a year and a half on my own doing all the writing and editing and then I was really really fortunate to find a colleague named Sean Young who came on and join me but really for the most part it was the two of us we worked with a pretty great freelancer and national Tennessee who helped us get stories pretty far down the line and you see all the writing like like like what was the level of volume to quality to like what what was it looking like yeah so we set a pretty remarkable pace right out of the gate when I first joined. I think that there wasn't a sense of how long these things we're going to take to produce or how long they were going to be or the multiple phases. We needed to go through to even get a really high quality piece which I can talk about because it really was Kinda counterintuitive. How do you get to an excellent interview with somebody but we started with doing two pieces a week Tuesdays and Thursdays and for the most part that's cadence that we held up through the four certify years that I was there and most of those stories were between three thousand five thousand words? How did you come up with that length? And why did you think that that was like the right piece for what you wanted to do. Yeah I think a lot of people thought that we were <music> a little nutty to lean into long form the way that we did given that the entire community was saying like more snapple yeah more skillful like that's wherever yeah exactly but it turned out that that actually became a key point point of differentiation for us that people thought that they could get the full story of how to do something because every single first-round peace and we actually codified this in a manifesto that lives on the site every single review peace had to deliver tactical advice that could be used by a reader Peter immediately and so I think people wanted more of a manual sort of style read from the review given that was the objective and so the longer pieces allowed people to have a really comprehensive understanding of not just what to do but why to do it and then also a sense of like how this actually worked for the people who were talking about it. Everyone said that they were like pocketing them to keep as a reference point later they would like go back when they were hiring data scientist or whatever ensure the article with them or whatever yeah exactly exactly so it ended up being an advantage a feature not a bug yeah we <hes> until the story before on the podcast we ran an article as an experiment that was <hes> sixty three minutes long. A sixty three minute long read on Armenian we had is like nine people that read it all the way through and <hes> yes one of those things where you're like what a learning experience right nine people read in the age of long form is dead read in our this is a novella right yeah and those sorts of things like you just have to. You have to test those things because again if those nine people for example are nine C._e._O.'s of fortune fifty companies that piece of content becomes is potentially a multimillion dollar piece concert right absolutely so I think that people just a lot of times believe in the status quo of like what everybody is doing not really looking at the end result of the content right and like who they want to read it. I think a lot of people took cues from the publishers with how they were doing their content not realizing that the publishers business model is based off of page views and had served spray. Your Business Model is based off of like people taking action or leads or and whatever that thing is and so they just Kinda said articles should be between five hundred seven hundred words yeah and then I think everybody's like oh well. Those people have run X. number of articles and they must be running all kinds of research on these things so that must be what's working and I think that we're leaving behind a huge audience of people that really love a comprehensive really holistic look at a topic and I loved loved the idea of the kind of guide approach because you see the best marketer especially in be to be used this approach in their content marketing now. We talked to a bunch of different. C._M._O.'s leaders that do that your exact same sowell approach that you did a first round for their companies companies for their for their content. What did this look like kind of after the snowball was rolling you know after you've been doing this for a number years? He kinda take a step back and you're like we just built a ton of stuff like the this is. This is a lot a lot like what we've built. Is something that probably you never imagined that it's going to be this much stuff or maybe you did. I don't know I don't think I had any idea me and sean sort of took a step back. Maybe a year and a half ago and realized that we could probably recycle a lot of the content that we had been making and it would be new in fresh for people again and it was still really accurate and still really compelling and so we started repackaging it into these sorts of like six must reads about a certain topic time management or hiring a first manager. What have you just remarketing the content and really interesting ways gave us this perspective just how much we had created I mean and that's the thing that's so exciting about about content is that you can cross cut the content for different use cases and this is like something that we've seen with with podcasting? That's like so exciting going forward. Is People listen just like they read just like they watch stuff for different reasons and you can pull the use cases out of the content in differ ways like ten things that C._I._O.. Said could be interesting for C._E._O.'s in one way but it's interesting for people who are selling to C._E._O.'s in different way whereas or it's interesting to C._M._O.'s that are looking to partner with their C._I._O.'s on technology though is three those ten pieces of content or valuable for three different groups in different packaging like that's what so exciting about this stuff and I think we look at it so like binary who is actually extremely complex and deep water some of those learnings with the depth of content that you're creating that people were recycling years later because when you're at the cutting edge guess what that person's company goes from four hundred employees to four thousand Oracle's from four hundred employees to no longer company yeah some of those things that as time progressed you're able to look back and see like Oh. This is actually totally different now yeah one of the big ones and a story that keeps coming up again and again as an interview with Joe Gabia that happened happened the very being he's a CO founder of AIRBNB. Oh and he talked about in this review story. How at the very beginning you have to do things which are not gonNA scale and the example that he gave was that people were not engaging with airbnb listings because the photos were ugly and so they sent professional photo cruise to people's homes to go take really beautiful spacious lovely photos of their spaces and that turned everything around but of course airbnb be was never going to send film crews to every single listing <hes> but the point that he was making their and now that you see that Airbnb is this like incredible empire and one of the only brands that I think actually has emotional resonance for me like he he really set a good foundation there with that type of thinking so that's something that I think people refer to again and again and we've seen that story like pop up on twitter and get like a huge following again I mean Reid Hoffman didn't entire episode of Masters scale? Hey on that one topic. I mean that's like with Brian. Chassis bike itsel wise but yeah that's sort of stuff those like I mean we look at quad the stuff with with our content of things that have been wildly successful for like ten years fifty years hundred years like those sort of ideas that you can bring back and relocate white re people saying this like. There's reason why if a saying if it's been around for thousand years like why that saying has been around 'cause there's inherent wisdom in in the length of that stuff. Here's a really funny. This is maybe a funny story and maybe we'll cut it out but who knows Nice C._e._o.. Who is just delighted by different cultural experiences? This is my C._E._O.. Ivan Jowitt notion who I think is brilliant thinker. He went to a Passover <hes> this last week. I literally showed it. That's why I was just thinking this keep go. He was like that is amazing. That ceremony has stayed totally preserved for that length of time he was like that is brand resonance. I literally said <music> same thing this weekend at Passover <hes> I was like man the Song Dinu has been around for two thousand years. It was written in twenty five like a D. or whatever whatever this is not like. Abroad stroke sort of deal. No we joke all the time about you know people bagging on listed Kohl's near like well. There's listed called the Ten Commandments. That's been around for two thousand years so there's a there's power enlists. There's a reason why human beings remember. These sort of things like song is another thing like there's a reason why songs are so easy to remember neo songs stories yet listed goals like there's a reason why you should use all of these different things in your current content strategy because they work. We did an episode. What about your favorite jingles like your favorite jingle? Oh Yeah and like where is that GonNa go now that radios dying words that GonNa go as as T._v.. Commercials like decrease in their scope like the fact that you know if you polled hundred the people ninety could sing the cars for kids at is wild yeah and that it comes up to sort of like oh man I know that and then people know all the words yeah and there have been like living in their brains and markers just won't have those advantages anymore. Can you just absolutely will not have the type of scale. There's more mass media experiences. I was just talking to somebody about this. Because game of thrones is clearly closest that a lot of people I think our generation are getting a mass media exerience where you can have a conversation with a stranger on a train about it but I mean there's really very few of those anymore and even game of thrones has what <hes> probably less than ten million viewers. Oh yeah every episode so yeah. It's a great point and all the people who don't listen to a don't subscribe described the content so that's what's so funny is like if you don't watch the show you don't care about all the twitter I've never heard about and you don't feel yeah you. You don't care we were talking about this exact thing game of thrones in the office the other day and about <hes> comparing now with Bob Bob Ross joy painting was syndicated eighty million house. Oh my God week to you're talking about Bob. Ross was in eight times more households than game of thrones was right <hes> like dearer shows that were syndicated an effort the name of the calmness. I think it was Ryan. Holiday was writing about this in a in a blog posts about there's a columnists that was syndicated in <hes>. He's basically read by twenty five percent of the American public including the president. I think it was Nixon. I can remember which read this guy's article recall every day. Think of the influence that that has and I don't think given the fragmentation that we're working with now that anything has that type of megaphone sort of quality to it and and yet you have things things that are these cultural phenomenons and as marketers. You need to find those we talk we did the episode with a pure shorts is like a grace hits or no. I'm referencing so many things no but we didn't episode with Peter Schwartz who was talking about like minority report and building minority report with Spielberg and the things that they are thinking about him product placement and you know the what Lexus did to be part of that film and then you see you know two decades later Lexus Double Down with Black Panther which like Black Panthers probably going to get by ten billion people yup wheeling and choice you know so you're like pretty valuable that your company is position in front of like the film that broke every single box office record and you know over the it next however many years it's going to be seen by billions and billions of people cultural significance. I think that his lack of a massive scale and like yeah so let's let's get into like that idea of this like audacious content. I mean what what you did. A first round was extremely audacious. No one had done it before. It felt like it was the right thing to do. What are things that you're thinking about it notion potentially or just this idea of corporate storytelling that you're excited about or you're seeing that people work on that? What are the next evolution of content marketing yeah? That's a great question. There's two things that I am thinking about it. Notion that sort of drawing from my experience at first round the first is my suspicion that enterprise marketers are going to have to behave behave and followed leads of consumer marketers more than ever before because at the end of the day the buyer of enterprise products whether it says software or something else are human beings that are moved by the same things and I'll talk a little bit more about that. Maybe later the other thing is that this advice that came up for me when I was helping different portfolio companies at first round but the most successful content programs I saw we're not necessarily pushing the idea of brand or a product but instead figuring what what problems their audience had and even if that wasn't the problem the product was solving they created content that solve the problem totally whether it was valuable advice in some sense or like access to a type of person and they're thinking they really were like how can we pivot content in that direction and the halo effect from that is what is going to help our actual product and brand that we've <hes> we talked to someone on the show about tools this rise of like how brilliant marketers will use tools as us the clicks C._p._m.. Calculator as a great example like I've used that cal that C._p._m.. Calculator so many times like it's just an it's one of those things like I know their brand. I know I've been to their website a ton of times it's to go back and use that tool over and over and over again when she got a tool that works you're gonNA go back to it right. You absolutely stick with it so one thing that notion that we're really excited about is just seeing all of this organic like Colt serious behavior around our product back from students the ideal product for taking notes doing a lot of research making sure they live side-by-side managing all of your classes all of that so what can we do to fan the flames of that existing passion and make sure that students who don't know about it we'll find out about it and then once they love it and they've worked at into the core workflows of their lives. Maybe they bring that into the workplace with them. They don't know yeah. No I mean it's it's a brilliant insight like we think about this with podcasting all the time time. It's like if the vast majority of young people are getting into podcasts like young people inherently become executives at some point in time and so if you want to influence you know the next generation of executives. This is the medium you should be choosing. You know similar cheer point if you want to get in the hands of people early on in the funnel psych who better start with college students yeah absolutely do you find that some of the problems problems that they have are something that may be is tough to resonate with a team of people that are probably a few years removed from college <hes> in terms of how do we send a message is to people who are out of school about this particular brand or no I mean I mean for college students because like who are they. What do they like? What are they talking about? Yeah I mean I'm definitely removed from that age group. Yeah I'm right now. Speaking to you is thirty four year old and literally in the job description for this role that I have at notion they said in a bullet point must be hip and I'm really taken a chance there with that but I I do find in talking to groups of students. It's like we just had a group of Berkeley students in the other day that no matter who you are you are feeling this impending sense of doom around. How do I take in all this information in my life and then make meaning out of it and that's something that I think all of us are experiencing saying no matter where we are what age we are and people are always looking for better ways to do it and better ways to architect their lives and you know this is what this whole podcast series is about as a self improvement in many different ways so we can tap into that sort of wellspring of love energy? I think that it doesn't matter necessarily what age you are. What about the corporate storytelling part excites you like what about the the way that marketers can structure their stories tomake a company which might not fuel rip relevant to a group of people that allows them to buy in and ultimately like just care about what this companies working on? I think that corporate storytelling when it's done well gets to the fundamental humanity and the emotional experience of the company itself the people who work there the people who use the product in a way that companies have never really valued before have never prioritized when it comes to their marketing or customer acquisition session but for the first time they're starting to think oh I have to motivate somebody and I can't do it with just a display ad can't do it with you know all of my regular traditional tools that have been working for the last. I think ten fifteen years I I have to take an approach where I am going to be a helpful teacher for people. I'm going to have to value their education. I can't sell them the same way that I used to be able to and so I have to speak to them as a human to human and I either in this is a theory see that I have shared before that content particularly when it comes from a company only released succeeds if it is really high utility like I just helped you do something you wanted to do today or emotional in a way that makes you feel less alone on the planet no and that's the type of staff that second one is the type of Steph where somebody turns to their best friend says you have to hear this or we have to go to that event together next time but anywhere outside of that zone. I think that you get content. That just doesn't quite job you want it to Dale. What are some of the common mistakes or pitfalls that you saw startups making when it came to trying to do content marketing you know you see you saw hundreds of startups in your in your time of first round? What do you think content marketing? You know implementation fails. I think that a lot of people do this exact thing. <hes> which is we're GONNA do content and we're going to tell human stories but the human story that they tell us the following which is <hes> so and so let's call him. Henry has this problem and they describe Henry's problem. They say luckily he found US product X. and then they describe how product solved Henry's problem and that's the content that they then mass manufacturer in the former blog posts probably written by one content manager that they've employed to do exactly that and very few people discover that content very few people actually consume it in a meaningful way. I'd say that it probably doesn't lead very many conversions or as many as people would like so I think that breaking out of that sort of wrote formula in even if you have to do case studies what is it that you are offering your audience outside of just that very basic narrative arc so one thing that I talked to somebody about today is maybe what your product does. This is about a larger concept like information architecture or it's about starting small business. So how can you have your content actually provide white label generic advice not generic but you know non-specified specific to your product stuck advice about how to do something that your audience wants to do. Does that make sense yeah. Totally we talked with one of the guys on the heron brothers about said you of like in the Hero's journey. Your product is not the hero. The hero is the customer you're the Elixir or whatever it is. <hes> is your product or it's the wizard or the magical being or whatever it is our view on a position of the sort in this town yeah but you're not showing them that your sewing them like at the end of it. They become the wizard right right like that's that's the end result you WANNA get too but but even still that still like you're adding a couple steps but it still the same thing I always think about it as we get obsessed assessed about a lot of vanity metrics for sure and they aren't all like shares for example. I think shares is both the most underrated and overrated thing but I think about content in the way of like. Would you actually talk about this with one of your friends like would you go yeah and share this like and friend meaning of work colleague or your spouse or whoever it is the relevant person that you want them to also talked to about buying your stuff. Was You actually talk to to them about this story if the answer is no it's like you probably wasn't that good and it wasn't that impactful and you didn't do the sort of thing that inspires them to go to their C._F._o.. And go as her the story about the other C._F._O.'S C._F._O.'s just like you. You should probably check this out right. You just didn't invoke the thing and I think the best content marketing campaigns deliver a level of high quality content that the C. T._a.'s lease or those stories the C. T. as of the content you could come back every single day and never go and like read that customer story and you'd be happy with what it was. Do you find like taking action from content is something that is overrated underrated or just about right. I think that for the bulk of content that's produced by companies. It's extremely important that you are offering some sort of utility or some sort of next action next step and I'm not saying that the next action needs to be clicking on a button thing by but <hes> the next action should be looking forward to the next newsletter or the next action should be something that's that's actually important to the person who is in the audience so. For example let's say that notion we are creating content. That's not necessarily like US notion for this but here's how to externalize the stuff that is bouncing around in your brain. Here's how to take in an enormous amount of information and make it more a memorable for yourself or something like that and then you know the notion logo is somewhere in that proximity. I think that that's much more valuable than pushing somebody to click by because it gives them a greater sense of who you are at brings them back again and again for deeper levels of engagement that type of thing. I thought you click buys and like buys in like by flagship like five B._Y._U.. Years the is the little exit the top of the screen. What other stuff are you working on a notion that you're excited about interestingly when you are the first marketer at a company? That's really only about fifteen people right. Now you find yourself doing all kinds of things and one of those things for me is reading a lot of help center content but what's interesting interesting about that isn't there are so many opportunities with help center content to capitalize on S._E._O.. To tell a story to give examples of how your product can be used that then could be sharable. You don't have to just provide really wrote step by step. Here's a pixel perfect screen shot sort of stuff. You can give people the tools in the information. They need to solve their problems. Do you think the world of like what do you think about this world of organization and collaboration and this stuff I mean I I find that we can work so much faster than we used to work but it also is so much more as is expected right with with great great. <hes> power comes G- responsibilities like I feel like I can use igor faster than ever but the things that I want to keep track of somehow like find a way to knock at found right like what is notion look like over the next five years. What are the things that are really exciting to figure out a way to make people more productive more organized <hes> and do better work? Thank you for asking that. I'm going to attempt to answer although I'm sure Ivan is going to be listening to that listening very closely the words that I use Ivan that can talk about <hes> Kentucky about Passover rituals <hes> not only a separate podcast unbelievable so that's hilarious as in the same thing yeah. It's it's very impressive. I'd say that there's two things that we really want to accomplish over the next three or so years. <hes> the first is really just quarter our mission which is that we want to give people the ability to modify and build the tools they themselves want in order to do their work and can we make sure that the people who know how to code or not the only people who are able to modify and build the tools that they need to work. Everybody's brain works differently. Everybody should be able to have workflows that match their brains not the other way around what I love about notion in what we're hoping to help other people fall in love with about notion is that we give you a very clean canvas and all of the building blocks. You need to combine away. That's going to be very close to the way that you wish that you could work and the way you wish your work looked and felt every day I mean we struggle so much with just how different people work I mean like you look at just like education general like Higher Ed. This is how one specific specific group of people learned how to learn you know in that early nineteen hundreds and then it's like okay everybody furtherest return it you off to learn this way. I mean I feel it. It's much the same with you know. Collaboration is like everyone has to be on the same age and it's like Dad's has pretty even and then if you put everybody on the same page in a company that all thinks that you have group think and that's really actually need everybody on the same page because then how many cooks in the kitchen do you have one thing that I find interesting about like notion and where it is and the landscape with all these other productivity tools is that we're kind of betting on a synchronous communication where people get to do the work and respond to the questions and put in the time when they want to as opposed to needing to be present to sort of answer all these things and notifications that they're getting during the day <hes> we really want to give people the ability to a portion of space for themselves to think and focus in a distraction free environment and then be able to respond bonds to all of their various inbox notifications in a different part of their lives or a different time period. Yeah I mean when I I read remote. I thought a lot about you know how what does remote cirque look like and all that stuff and our team at emission is almost or so remote ands as soon as you add in one variable of someone in a wildly different time zone everything changes yeah and and then I think that that's one of the interesting things for vast majority people in the world who work plus or minus three hours of time zones within each other. I get up at five A._M.. And my day ends at like three three P._M.. Or something that yeah and that that inherently is going to change the world's going to become more connected more close and you're GonNa have people working all over the world and if you don't have a synchronous ways of operating it's going to be tough. I would also say that I think we're going to get smarter about and more aware of different working styles and this is going to be a major theme in the future of work conversation that creatives work very different than a lot of technical lines and they need a different environment and they need a different sort of on boarding <hes> so how oh can we create those sorts of spaces and rolls and workflows cross functional workflows as well that get the most out of everybody's personalities and diverse working styles but something I think about a lot as a writer who works environments every day with open floor plans and lots of notifications going off all day long. I know we yeah we meet us. You're sitting in the studio. You have to block time for deep work like you have to. If you're writing I mean you have to bury yourself in the story and if you don't it's GonNa be pretty much impossible to write it. <hes> that is something that we saw with a lot of the popular content on the review. Is that the stories that provided any sort of advice around how to clear your mind or plan a schedule or make sure that your activities were aligned with your goals in intentions all of that content performed remarkably well and my favorite one is from this woman Fiji Mo who runs the V._p.. Of Product on the media T._v. new facebook watch side of facebook and she was saying that every Monday morning she has a meeting with herself where she really sits down with her schedule. Make sure she has enough time to accomplish accomplish everything. She knows to need to get done that week. Already anticipates tough conversation. She knows she's going to have like really tries to prepare herself in a very systematic and <hes> she says I never miss that meeting. It's the one meeting I cannot cancel L. yet. Don't schedule on schedule Ian before ten A._M.. On Monday I was thinking it's funny like we fight the things that we hate. If you hate it you should not fight it. Just don't do it like it's just one of those things like. If you really hate Monday mornings schedule your schedule so the sleep in Monday mornings and then you won't hate Monday mornings anymore. I mean clearly good might mean that you hate Tuesday mornings but probably not yeah probably won't I mean this is sort of dovetailing with an argument that I think is increasingly. It's gaining the momentum that people have constantly been like Oh. I have to address my weaknesses. I have to really get stronger in the areas where I'm weak and I've heard so many speakers lately saying no just double down on where you're strong and I think that there's something real merit for it to that. I mean Georgia Martin wrote game of thrones on a typewriter. Yeah you know and I just think that there's a lot of <hes> a lot of ways to to do things <hes> the wrong way that feel right to you and that's a good thank. Let's go into some waiting around questions. Okay is your fast and easy questions just like marketing automation with product fast and easy. He's questions will be nothing like the ones that you saw had a time these. They're all ones that you have no idea what's coming on excited. Are you ready. I think so number one what apple easing on your phone that is the most fun. Oh Gosh if I say notion. That's not going to be good. The sheeting the I am really obsessive pocket casts. I listen to podcasts all day. If I am alone in any sort of capacity I even swim every morning I listen to podcasts Walleye swim and it's by far the most fun because it's the content that is the most fun for me. What technology allows you to swim with music actually a really crazy M._p._3? Player that I bought for about twenty three dollars off of Amazon this lawyer <hes> I've heard a lot of people have podcast. I haven't ought to check out. What's your favorite one day getaway? <hes> I love Monterey Love Carmelo in Monterey. Yeah I do too would ad campaign. Have you seen recently. You're the most envious of Oh gosh. It's not a recent campaign but it is always sort of top of mind for me the P. and G. campaign that ran in the two thousand twelve London Olympics is by far the best advertising campaign. I think that has ever existed which was a it's the thank you mom campaign where they had all of the children who are future Olympians and you should they show just a montage of all these MOMS from around the world and just silently using g products you know detergent to wash their clothes. What have you and then there's there's like this key moment where this little girl does backflip on the Balance Beam and she's all of a sudden in the Olympics and you just start crying immediately? Everybody I know starts crying so whenever I'm asked about a favorite ad campaign whether it's recent or not I say that one favorite Booker podcast that you've read or listened to recently I love the Rewatch ables <hes> from the ring or podcast. I'm obsessed. They talk about movies exactly the way. I love to talk about movies. I feel like I know them. Yeah I mean I feel like I know chased mallory. I'm good road. It's unbelievable. They just did field of dreams and I was like crying during the podcast Simmons is the best in the Biz at bringing nostalgia ridiculous insights that you always always thought it's so good I mean he's yeah. There's a reason why he's been doing this for. As long as he has just unbelievable stuff he actually thinks like a movie watcher or a fan of sports in a way that like few eight people I've ever done yeah he was talking about one of his favorite sports writers and how when he I read this P._c.. was like here was this famous sports writer talking about this spider creating a spiderweb in the corner of the press box during this huge game he was like Oh my God you can write about sports like this and that's something that inspires me to like. Oh my God you can write about technology companies like this yeah. I I mean we we were huge fan so the ringer this great stuff yeah. What question do you never get ass that? Oh you wish you got asked I think I don't get asked about like the team stuff about first-round and I think what made first-round actually such an effective team is because everybody who worked there at least for that point in time. I and I think that that's still the case like loved each other in like a serious knocked down writer die loyalty sort of way and many of those people are still among my closest friends sean who I was on the review is one of my best friends and I think that because we felt that way about each other we all worked harder longer hours. I'm not saying that that's the only way to work or not trying to glamorize that but we just loved being with each other so being able to create that team dynamic is really I think an underrated thing and it's an underrated part of my experience that I never get asked about. What's your best advice for first time writer? My best advice for a first time writer is to not just honestly not get discouraged and to become really really graceful taking feedback like make that a skill don't just say like Oh. I'm going to be good at taking feedback like really cultivate. That is something that you are master at where it's like even down to like what your hands are doing what you're faces doing how your inquisitive about got. It and I think that that really starts understanding that any feedback. Someone's giving you even if it's not phrased kindly as a gift and you get to decide whether or not you feel that way about it. They don't get to decide it for you Camille so you got. That's it. That's it. Did you did an amazing job. Everybody you can check out. It's notion DOT S._O.. Yes it is <hes> checkout notion dot S._O.. If you want to learn about the all in one workspace that they're building which is really cool and <hes> working people find you on the twitter's I am at Camille Ricketts too easy and we'll link that up in the show notes and will link up the first round context. It's amazing. Thanks so much for hanging out. Thank you so much. It's an honor I really appreciate it. We'll talk soon. Thanks for listening to this episode of marketing trends. Marketing Trans is brought to you by salesforce dot World Class B._B._B.. Marketers use part to generate nurture elites close more deals and maximize R._O._I.. At every stage of the sale cycle.

Tesla Motors partner Camille content manager first round capital Sean Young twitter Yeah Jobs magazine AIRBNB Alec Baldwin Ivan Jowitt California head of marketing marketing guru Peter Schwartz Wall Street Journal Ben Wilson Bank of America Beautiful Palo Alto New York
First Round Recap

NFL Live

1:08:06 hr | 1 year ago

First Round Recap

"Welcome to NFL live presented by EGO. The first round of the draft is in the books the bengals opted for Joe Borough with the top overall pick and then went to the dolphins at five pervert to the chargers. At sick we also saw fifteen players from the SEC. Taken on the first night and according to Elias that's the most first round pick from any conference an NFL draft history. This is an iconic night on the American sports calendar the first ever virtual NFL draft the Cincinnati Bengals. Select Joe Borough the`second fix case young. The Miami Dolphins liked to a tongue of Allah. Didn't that caller go go. It's amazing man. I've worked my whole life but this can you got hello everybody. I'm Wendy next happy to have you with us for. Nfl Live the day after the day. Of course of round two REX Ryan is here so to dinner and Tim Hasselbeck about last night. We start with a quarterback there were four taken in the first round on Thursday led by. Lsu's Joe Fro who was officially selected by the Bengals with the first pick failed in the great state of Ohio with the fake. The dolphins went with Alabama's to a chunk of Iowa. Miami hasn't had a pro bowl quarterbacks Dan Marino in nineteen ninety five the longest act drought in the League according to Elias. Right after it was the chargers. They took Oregon quarterback Justin Herbert who recently earned MVP honors at both the Rose Bowl and the senior bowl and then this the Green Bay packers moved up and selected Utah State Jordan Law. The first time in the common draft air. They traded up to the first round to draft. A quarterback. Here is Jordan love. I'm not sure how that is going to work excited to get back here. And just like I said learn as much as I can't from from a air you know he's a Amazing Player And I know I'M GONNA learn a lot from him And I'm not sure how that situation will work but like I said I'm excited to be behind them and do whatever the team needs. Love of course was asked about quarterback Aaron Rodgers and we say hello to Dan Graziano. Who's covering the packers for the draft? Dan this was a shocker. What went into green based decision to not only draft or love but move up to do so. The first thing I saw was about a conversation I had with packers. Gm Brian Gouda Ken's last July and training camp. I was asking him what they liked about. Matt Leflore who they just hired as head coach and he told me we thought he was the best fit for us not just short-term with Aaron but long term in terms of what we WANNA do as far as developing quarterbacks and so last night this came back me and the packers team. That's always thinking long term. They're not gonNA drop just for immediate need just for help this year and last night after the pick was made he made it clear that that's how they approach this. He said if we felt there was a real difference maker at another position. Available data point that draft. We would have considered him. We didn't so they look. They thought they had guide whose traits and whose character said good starting. Nfl quarterback they feel like they were adding a fourth round. Pick to move up. Four spots was a small price to pay to get that and it's just in character in terms of how the packers view their roster construction. They're not about. We need to win this year. They're about we need to be positioned to win every single year. All right Dan thank you now. Before last night as we look closely at the packers draft history they had used each of their previous eight. First Round picks unto -fensive players for those are no longer with Green Bay after coming. Just one win shy of a super bowl appearance last year. The packers now sit sit love for an entire year. They could certainly something. The first rookie quarterback hasn't done since Jake Walker in two thousand eleven. Here is Aaron Rodgers talking before the draft about his team. Possibly taking a quarterback. Look I'm a realist? I know where we're at As an organization where I'm at my career I still feel like I have tons of years left playing high level. I'm confident enough. I've I've always felt like it doesn't matter who you bring in the neck in a bill to beat me out anytime soon so Overly confident about my abilities. And my place guys Rex Ryan. I'll start with you. Certainly that's the case. Expect Aaron Rodgers to be safe in his position but there is an opportunity cost here and they don't get him any help so rex your reaction to that decision. I think me and almost every other person on the planet had to be shocked by this move and the reason I say it is look Aaron Rodgers A. Gm said he goes we the best quarterback in the league. Well wanted to wanted to act like you're the best quarterback in the league. You're one game shy of getting to a super bowl. Let's say Aaron Rogers says a three year window? Three more years left to play at an extremely high level. Well why don't we go for it every year instead of sitting back saying well we'll build for the future? I love it by the way this pick is not the same pick. It was fifteen years ago when Aaron Rodgers was drafted air. Rogers was in the conversation. Being the first player selected Jordan. Love Woods never ever in that conversation so to me. The it's not apples to apples So to me. I think it's just a mistake. We'll see how it goes. Look they've drafted. Quarterbacks of future in recent drafts as well and by the way every single one of them failed so to me. This is what you have. Let's finally surround. This guy was some weapons and they say you don't have a game changer. Says THAT YOU'RE NOT GONNA. You're not looking to get a game changer. The rest of your draft. I think is ridiculous. It's a deep draft from receivers but why would give this guy the tools that he needs one game one more game and they could go to the Super Bowl. I find it a really good decision by Green Bay. I think two things kicked true one that they chose the future over the president but also that they can find a way to get better for twenty twenty season like they had the twentieth pick right and so the receivers that were left over. Are the Higgins Viscous Schultz Klay pools? There's a group of receiver Du Vernet Texas. They might see that group as a very similar group and so the thought is. Why are we going to use that first round? Pick on a receiver that we believe that we can get into sixty second pick and so go up and get the quarterback which secures the fifth year option for your future and then find a way to get a receiver at the sixty second pick and again. Birds are really big group of second round receivers that could be impacted for Green Bay. So listen to General. Manager's job is so difficult to go okay what like how do I get better today? But also be focused on the future and so the reality is this if they're in. Rogers is as good as I still think he is. During the love is not going to see field for a long time and he controls that yes. They need to give him better weapons. We all know that. But let's see what happens around two or three before we say. The packers made a massive mistake. Right on this kid's not going to see the field for a while. You're certainly right on that where I look at it is. Let's see if you get a t higgins in the Next pick in the second round. I WANNA risk it here so close to a super bowl man like like go get it to futures a whole string and now's in quite honestly. I don't see how you help your football team. We'll see how it goes. It'll play out in five years. We'll see if he's not going to see the field for a long time. Then it's eight terrible. Check the reality. Is you to see them. And you'RE GONNA end up using the fifth year option on him if he's not going to see the field and you have at least two years to evaluate him before picking up the fifth year option. Then it's a waste of pick is really what it is and you know in terms of the wide receivers and who would be available all the trade up your trade to get joint lawmen resident. Exactly right when he talks about not being apples to apples when Brett farve was the quarterback you'd think that they've come up ten and six season they draft Aaron Rodgers at that point aaraj rookie year. They go four and twelve. Twenty nine interceptions. You think Brett would have liked some help. Certainly there was good football still ahead for Brett Farve we saw so. I think when you look at this man Rogers perspective. He thinks he has more than two years left. I would agree with them. I think everybody sitting here would agree with that. So you know the idea that you were played you know Erin for two years and then move on then you would have to figure out Jordan. Love could play in two years before you pick up that fifth year option. There is no long term in the NFL. But here's the thing we know this about the NFL right. A lot of organizations make panic moves when they don't have a plan that quarterback and so I'm not going to sit here and bash because again what happens if they look at that group of eight receivers and go. We feel really confident that one of those guys is going to be there and we see them all the same so was the was the attack a receiver that they had ranked as the move for them to take a receiver at you know that they have ranked in the fifty to seventy range at twenty or do they go up and get the quarterback and go. We still feel confident. We can get a receiver. I understand that it is a very similar situation to just what ended in New England. You didn't help Tom Brady enough at the end of his career. But we've all lauded this drafter being super deep at the wide receiver position and they may get one of those guys. That are still impactful in your one. What tenders tackle or tight end as well? I mean it doesn't like it had to be a wide receiver. Go To ben attack. All they need one of those and they also need to tie them. Well guys no matter where you fall on the legitimacy of the decision. We can all agree. It was at the very least surprising. I think I think we're unanimous on that Friday the dolphins meanwhile another headlining team they made three picks in the first round yesterday led by number five perhaps franchise quarterbacks to Tunga Vilo with the eighteenth pick they added to protection upfront for to USC. Tackle Austin Jackson and then it thirty quarterback in Auburn's Noah Bennet Ghani The dolphins have been unable to find consistency at quarterback. Since Dan Marino the hall of Famer retired before the two thousand season. They twenty one different starting. Qb's since that time guide for third most in the League they are twenty two games below five hundred and mets fans and only had a winning record one time in the last decade. The dolphins have been in the playoffs just four times in the last twenty seasons. Their last postseason coming in two thousand. Still when you put it like that all right the question though. I think everybody's asking today. Tim is to over Justin. Herbert agree or disagree. I agree and really for me if you're assuming that too was healthy. I don't think it was all that close. You know part of what happens when guys get drafted. It's it's based on what they've done but also what they project to be. And so you know for two when you watch him play at Alabama so much you know conceptually what they were doing it. Alabama that you can see translate the National Football League. You can see him doing those things well and obviously he did it and extremely high level. The concern is the injury but when you look at Herbert I think the concern ends up being that you're basing a lot of on potential a lot of it on a what can be not necessarily what he has your what he accomplished as a player. In fact I thought he was held back a little bit as a player in that Oregon. Offense so you when you look at it that way. If you're making the assumption that the Miami Dolphins doctors were fine with his health that I think it was an easy decision. You know what Tim. I don't disagree that too as a player. You gotta sit back like wow. This is a no brainer. It'd be him Joe Borough in the conversation however just dismiss these injuries. It's not just the hip injury it's every single injury like five surgeries worthy injuries. And to me that's a real real risk I got. It's the biggest gamble ever however Miami was in a unique situation where I think this this was a team. That could make that gamble. Why you have five first round picks in the next two seasons so it made perfect sense. Look they got to build it from the pain in you got to force it that way with a small quarterback you look at what the saints have done with drew. Brees protecting him. They get those big massive guys playing guard. The dolphins added Eric Flowers in the off season. That's one right there. The center they picked up the backup from New England. We need another center. We need guard and now once you get that established now it fits in. You've got everything you need for this young man but by no means. Do you play this guy early. So I think it's a correct selection but you better make darn sure he's one hundred percent all right and not just. Hey the hips coming around. We gotta make sure he's one hundred percent before he ever sees the field and I think it's a great pick but the biggest risk of ever seen I agree with both of you guys ten. You bring up a great point like intellectually to is going to be really ready for the NFL. Because of the stuff that he ran and learned in college he'll be really understanding different types of concepts and coach. You bring up a great point so they would the offensive line right building inside out. This now becomes the two most impaired these become the most kind of paramount things for this one. What did the dolphins do now? I mean you made this election. You took the risk which was one hundred percent the right decision but now you gotTa make sure that you protect that decision right and so that football team up around two. This is why it was a good match because Chris greer and Brian Floor is are any long-term playing together in lockstep and they're not going to be pressured to have to get to on the field to prove ownership. Hey we can women these young player right and so they can be patient and build a really healthy football team around him and now it's really up to as well like to got approved. The dolphins that they were right to kind of roll the dice on him when it comes injury and his biggest thing is to realize you know. Make sure you understand the player that you are and you know the the availability is a big deal in the NFL. You don't have to prove how tough you are but this was absolutely the right decision for the dolphins. I gentlemen standby we'll say hello now to our insiders Adam and more than when you think about too is injury history more and the chargers belief in tyrod Taylor. How likely is it that either two or Herbert are starting when we won rolls around there? Well first of all. I got a have a conversation with rex at some point about those five surgeries to of missed four games three because of the hip injury and his Alabama career for the Dolphins Brian Forces in it to win it. He's got a new offense coordinator and lead to simplify offense but he also has Ryan Fitzpatrick. I don't know of anybody. Took notice about wealthed. Fitzpatrick played last year. I think he went up the foxborough pretty big in the pages really long term chances to go back to another super bowl but for Tua the expectation is that he'll go in and start and you'll probably physically be ready remember. We don't have an offseason. We don't even know what preseason is GonNa be about so it's not just about the physical part. It's about the mental part. But one thing that you hear that are legendary Alabama and Nick Sabin often license go-goes ones a lot of NFL players on that defense and two times and many times has just been magic in practice. Just when you think that the better players are on the defensive side to has away opening your eyes little by the way if it was good Patrick Mahomes the city. Here it's probably okay for two to Justin Herbert and Los Angeles. The chargers have no immediate plans to play him. Don't plan right away. They believe in like tyrod. Taylor and tyrod Taylor is going to go into camp. I'm going to go into. The season. Is the starting quarterback and they could afford to bring along just in Herbert at their pace as they recommend as they get ready to bring them up to speed in their offense again. No rush to get Herbert Ready. But they believe in him long term and in other news today the Texans right now or getting close to finalizing an extension. That's not yet done with the Texans. Tackle left tackle Laremy Tunsil when it does get done. It is expected to be a three year extension for sixty six million dollars that includes fifty million dollars guaranteed so people thought the Texans should have had a deal before going to get a deal done with them now. It's not done. They're going to the language right now. They're on the phone this afternoon. Tried to get that deal final. Shefty thank you six percent worth one in the first round and it was the speed sir. Henry Welsh the third that lead things off your second with twelve. Fix therefore straps since making the move to Las Vegas and then his teammate. Jerry Judy from Alabama taken by the broncos Fifteen Denver putting together a nice often led by Zula's. Melvin Gordon Portland. Sutton no offense. How Jerry duty at Seventeen Dallas opted for Oklahoma receivers CD lamb. He led the nation in yards per reception. Last year. Here is with our Shamsi cover. You've played with three different starting quarterbacks Baker Mayfield and Kyle Murray won the heisman and their starters in the NFL when Dak Prescott to know about how you can contribute to his success. He's definitely going to get an ultimate competitor A guy who's willing to get you to run. You know helping him and just help him like the bitter quarterback as if and you've movement veterans better than to tell cowboys than Edward R who joins us now and add. What factored into the cowboys thought process last night? Well you know what was interesting is how it unfolded the cowboys. Were actually in a situation. Wendy contemplates unexpected options. They had done approximately two dozen mock drafts and never was. Cd LAMB available at their. Pick at Seventeen. Ultimately they declined three trade offers and ignores her more urgent needs on defense to draft. Cd Lamb who they had is the number six player on their board. Jerry Jones said opinion around the NFL that wide receiver wasn't a priority for the cowboys probably prevented other interested teams from trump from trading in front of Dallas. In fact a division rival Eagles actually tried to make a trade with the Falcons at sixteen to get in position to take. Cd-rom in front of the cowboys they had to settle for picking another receiver. Jalen Rieger at twenty one steven Jones said that compared to the other options on the draft board CD. Lambs name was just a blinking light. That could not be ignored and Mike. Mccarthy had new cowboys head coach in his first draft process with this group really commended. The group's thinking in terms of honoring their draft board. Drafting the best player over addressing a need and Wendy to put this into some perspective. You know the calories are coming off a season where for the first time in the sixty year history of the franchise then a four thousand yard. Passer a thousand yard rusher and two thousand yard. Receivers never have done that before it history. Now they add CD lamb but it does come at a cost. Their other option was to add an edge rusher and Levion von Chase on from Lsu. Now they're probably a little more dependent on to suspended players Randy Gregory and Alden Smith than they like to be at thank you. That's how it works. You do one thing. It means you don't do another. We're joined now by Ryan Clark and Marcus Spears as well and Ryan is you heard Ed look. They have the opportunity to cowboys. Did to trade. This pick turned down three offers Any any surprise Marcus. Actually at the cowboys plan no no surprise at all. Obviously we had heard about parents Russia but the fact that CD lamb got there and listen for everybody that saying Wendy that this was not a need. They had Randall Cobb in the slot last year. Who departed this? Feel some sort of gap and now mind Brinkley. Goals to Dak Prescott the fact. That Prescott is a more Kupa Michael Gallup and now see in the slot and I think Blake Darwin tight in. Don't be a superstar role of numbers so the last night it was presented to me by young man when they ran. Clark Than Dag should play unattended ball out and trying to figure out a winning the hail. Somebody should pass up one hundred million dollars guaranteed to take twenty seven. 'cause they gotta look at receivable so almost sit back and swatow pick. Marcus fears Marcus Spears. Don't you include me and your comments? When ain't nobody ask you no questions about me when we're talking about? Cd and you look at the draft pick dramtic of CD lamb. They did the right thing. If a guy's ring that high on your board and so on falls to you that you feel like is somebody who can't pass up you have to make make pig and let's look at what the cowboys have been doing in recent drafts or even as far back to the Johnny Manziel draft it was the guy that Jerry Jones love. He was evacuated with Johnny Manziel when he went alarming because it was the better player it was better for the organization. And that's what they did here. Obviously Pass rusher is something that they covered and you can get one later on in the draft. There were no more no more Chase Jones in this draft CD lamb is gonNA be a player. He's going to be all pro a pro bowler at some point. And if you can help you continue to roll of yards. Then you win. Look at the Kansas City chiefs. No one sitting around saying they should have been drafting pass rushers when they go out and get a call Hartman because he stretches the defense and you can't beat them because you can't outscore it's a great pick by the Dallas Cowboys. Yeah Hey I tell you what Ryan I'm GonNa. I'M GONNA sign the hundred million dollar contract just so you guys know. I'm going to look at this when you see CD lamb. I don't disagree. I think he's got what it takes to be a pro bowl. And you knew Wellstone Mike McCarthy to me when you're looking at this kid. When he came out I was thinking. This guy reminds me a Davante Adams because at the top of the route. He's so physical and he's such a competitor for the football and then by the way you can't tackle him his catches amazing. And when you put Gallup and Cooper on the outside who by the way the run bags decent and the office allies these this offense is GonNa be now. What are they gonNA do about pass rush? I'm not sure because I think what they're going to do. In a second round is take a safety but three top safeties in the draft are still available. So I think when you look at Xavier mckinney at Alabama delicate out of Lsu and then Antoine Winfield. Junior three three ball or sitting right there so this might be an unbelievable draft for the cowboys especially if they land one of these guys. It just warms about hard to hear. Y'All talk so well. Labonte Dallas cowboys cancels out here so much so much negativity surrounding by the fact that we got it right would see and we still got that. We identified and his brand that we could be a better team. Dammit if we eight years and I'm GonNa just do this is that's the thing we're just building you up so vacant. Let you don't want you to have a great to feel so good and bubble up a full. Expect this great offense and you guys are going to score tunnel points and still be sitting home with US watching the playoffs in the end. The cowboy's duty. Oh they're fans all the time but for one day or every guy. He was the captain. Notice you yeah. We're at Clark what this man has moment? Let let let Marcus for just a few fellas thank you as always. Lsu Let all schools five first round picks last night and according to Elias. That's tied for the second. Most in the first round of any draft history only the hurricane had more back in four also the first time in the common draft era that quarterback running back and wide receiver were taken from the same school in the first round of the draft and Lsu tied in fat loss who scored two touchdowns in the National Championship. Game could join his teammates as a draft. Pick before this weekend is over. And maybe you've heard about dad. He joins US now. Hall of Famer Randy Moss and Randy will certainly get to that in just a minute. But let's start with last night's number one. I know you got to see a lot of that. Is Joe Borough? What have the bengals found in their new quarterback? Will they had a Guy? Who's ready to take the bull by the horns and just come in ready ready to play. There was a lot of questions concerning Joe Borough throughout the season. Everybody's talking about his offense a weapons. How many guys he had to work with. But when I seeding First hand been out there throwing the ball being able to run a pro style offense how he moves in the pocket being able to keep the chains moving to keep the offense on the field. That's wild thing to Cincinnati. Bengals have found their man. I like all intangible guys and the the one thing that really stands out to me mates every body on the defense of where that he's on the field so he's going to get everybody office involved. And that's what I like him. This young quarterback man. I tell you why Randy this guy. 'cause Randi would tell me about how good this quarterback was and I remember. I can't be that good then. You watch him and it's like oh I never seen they like it. I mean it's well. I never happened in college football every the greatest year of any quarterback in the history of the game. But it's amazing. He can throw on time on time. His poison of pocket like Randy talks about this is unreal and they know sit back and he's so accurate the football this where he reminded me A. Tom Brady many puts that ball. Right under your Chin protects the receiver from collisions. He gives them a chance to run after the catch with it. The guys just amazing. And then by the way that speech if you're if you'RE CINCINNATI BENGAL. They got. They probably sold one hundred thousand. Jerseys Joe Borough on it and if they would have you know why mess that pickup gone with somebody else. Oh my gosh you forget about it but this guy is a perfect quarterback for the Cincinnati bengals. Well let me ask you this randy. Because borough going number one was expected we sort of do that leading up to this thing but then there were the packers trade up to draft a quarterback Jordan love. I think if no matter what you think about the decision it was a surprise What did you think about making the move for love? Instead of adding some help for their current quarterback Aaron Rodgers. Well it was kind of shocking to me as a fan of as an analyst to really see that Aaron Rodgers is still planning a high level and for them to really use their first round. Pick on a quarterback knowing what they have already there so when I look at the the Green Bay packers and bring in a guy like Jordan. Love is weeks. I don't know if we've seen the best of Aaron Rodgers but now that we know that competition is in the building as a football fan as as as a former player. I like what the Green Bay packers has done Like I said. I don't know what how better how much better Air Roger Stink but with them bringing your love into that building. It's going to light a fire up whether Aaron Rodgers. I look for big things coming out a great band at offense. I think I mean that's just human nature and we certainly know. Aaron Rodgers is a competitor. Let me ask you this. There was also the little matter of Henry Rugs. The third he went twelfth. Overall to the raiders. And I know you've had a chance to spend a little time with him so before you before I ask you this. Take a look go into the national football league. Hey soon back up here you WANNA work with the glove. That's cool with me the penalty just devil's island. Just let you know for. Every drop looks fiber starting off your professionals now. This college is over with if it's a weakness of what I see that means over the next week week and a half before you go. Doug need to home in on it before they know what I'm saying. All right so we got randy the hall of Famer Randy Randy the coach Rex. How do you do shoot? No surprise Randy was incredible. But you know it's a little different. This guy's got a little stroke to him. You know what I be because if everybody is seen him a first ballot hall of favor so rainy can go out there and tell them anything lineup backwards. They're going to do it. Fashion and I know ready. He could do it all. There's no question Randi you know it'd be a little different. They saw my tape. Nobody would listen to me. I thought he did a great job. And you just see those kids right there how they respond to metal bed. Yeah Randy could do anything no surprise but you know what he enjoys fishing too much for all the coaches out there. Don't worry he's not. He's not talking to me. What what does the raiders get in rugs? You see their reacting last night. They were thrilled with the pick. So who are they getting? Well think they're really getting a home redetermined very explosive and talented wide receiver. You know I think that this year's wide receiver class of for this year's draft is very very deep. I mean you're going to get steals. Lateness drap but when you look at the first receiver taking off off the board from Alabama when you look at the talented. They had on their roster. Rubs is one of the Oakland Raiders. Something that home run threat of what he's able to bring to this. Oakland offense with car at the quarterback just been able to get the ball in his hands. It's just to see what he did for Alabama Crimson tide. He was able to stretch the field. But I think that rubs most effective within the five to ten yard range where you can get the ball in his hands and make all eleven guys. Try to tackle this young man randy one more joked about the number of hats you wear but this week not a coach or an analyst but also a father I see. Wait for your son. Fads name to be call one. Has it been like for you? Not as a player this time but as the dad record wracking for me Wendy just being able to think back a million years ago back when I was going through this process and how emotional I was in the Roller Coaster. Takes you up and down throughout the whole weekend and as you can see the pictures of me and my my son just being a proud dad to see him reach ago of being able to play in the National Championship. Me Been able to play in the League announced. I got a a second-generation hopefully to be introduced into the National Football League so I think I'm about as nervous and jittery as he is but like I said God is going to just keep our faith in God and to see what he adds a store force I rack. Randy will be watching a best of luck to you and also to. Thad he gives something and you get something right so we obviously gave up a lot. We weren't in Las Vegas. We understand that but nevertheless the draft went on and what we did guess guys is to be inside some of these houses. You know with coaches and GM's we got to see families. We got to see people together. I mean a lot of it was cool so we're not going to do it best because everybody had on like casualwear but we are going to talk about where they were. Marcus what what did you see that she thought was interesting. First of all Jerry Jones only yacht was the biggest flakes. I've ever seen in my entire life out. Grab a drop in the ocean. And I'm corn taste better than anybody could ever corn team in the history of quarantine peasants do what? I won't draft from the ozone. Oh and then there was this well for me. It was Mike. Ray was the first thing that comes to mind. Do head somebody in a Fr- ozone suit and if anybody has ever you lose. And then his other homeboy a blonde mullet. I'm talking about like straight awful tiger king. This is what you want out of your bag. Your when you a grime me linebacker. And then he had to do they say he was on a stool but just for background purposes. We're going to continue to think where we thought last night might ray water winner. Bane bested Marquess B. Ability is the guy has a billion dollars and byles a ball bowl and drives it around with every day all the money that he's ever may from every paycheck he's gotten to the NFL. That's what this room says. The second thing is room says eaters. I don't try to impress you. How drifts and coats on the satellite? I dare try to impress live life. I like the extension cord or whatever it is just plug it in. Here we go. Hey guys talk about cliff. Teams very yes. But that's just win the Knicks. That's why he did it so women all around the world saying signed me. Well this strap this Kim tunnicliffe clippings berries posting pitcher in a Speedo. That's what he wanted people to see. Look at all. This space is guys. Don't you WanNa Watch Netflix over here? This is netflixing. He probably make you think the Netflix people live here. I get all the new joints. WanNa be very well done. Wow well we want to go over there. Yeah I know we have to look at. The people can't afford it. We all enjoyed seeing the setup. Here's what a quarterback Patrick Mahomes of course played for cliff at Texas Tech said Apparently when do you say oh? I've tried to have like cliff George Tire and Matthew Return. No wonder they couldn't afford me anymore. Best Fair enough basis here as the worldwide leader and we have a house insider real estate aficionado quarantine expert Diana Rossini and Diana. Apparently you've talked to a few of these guys including the aforementioned cliff Kingsbury. My career is really taking off here. Become a real estate insider talking to these questions today. Yes so if you look at the Kingsbury pictured the one thing that stands out is where are the outlets if you're running a draft? How you charging your phones and computers He says the outlets are actually pretty far away. He's a big cable court to connect it all and I kinda look at is. I don't think he really thinks he needs it. He's got those three cell phones. He seems to be embiid space there and he's also doing that. Ryan gosling crazy stupid. Love scene there. It seems like that's the house they used in that movie which I felt like I had asked them at the ever. Use that whole Patrick swayze move and he says he's never done that so he doesn't steal the gosling moves he just kind of looks like a tough tough row. Listen what about Mike rebel because Ryan mentioned that and it was an interesting say I love ribs but if the interesting thing a little odd so the way was described to me was they were watching as a family all the other teams. The head coach is sitting with young children and they were celebrating hugging and Rabo looked over at his eighteen and nineteen year old sons. One Son Being Offensive Lineman at Boston college thinking like I don't really want to hug you. That plus you're bigger than me. So he said you know you guys do what you WANNA do. And that's what they came up with. He said he was just locked in to what they were doing with this draft. They talk to John Robinson over the phone and he's like the next thing. I knew I looked behind me. And they're dressed off and the wearing my Jersey and it all just happen fast and he made it a point Ryan Clark. I know we want to believe in the whole bathroom situation that that that wasn't the case either way it seems like that's that's that's the most fun house me four quarterbacks. I elected last night including three in the first six weeks Joe. Borough went to the Bengals to a chunk of Iowa to the Dolphins Justin Herbert of the chargers and then the surprise Jordan. Love to the packs for me. I think right now I I just want to focus on being able to get get to know everyone I mean I want to build relationships with guys on the team. I want to dive deep. And so my playbook understand you know what I need to do to get better and My opportunity comes it comes. I'm going to do my best to be the best quarterback I can be and I'm GonNa get on it as soon as I can get the offense down and continue to work hard and whether it's in Los Angeles Gene. I'm do my best. You know I knew I was going to have a really good season. 'cause I knew we had really good players. Combat Guy Great coaches on we were gonNA work really really hard to do it but to to jump up to number one of ours is crazy to me But it's a it's a dream. Come true guests so join our quarterback Stan Laskey Greg mcelroy? Tim Hasselbeck. Let's start with you. Dan Borough to the bengals house to fit. It's a really good vitamin ZACK. Taylor in Brian Callaghan have a great understanding of the quarterback position. And then you look at the things that borough does when I talk when I think of like a calm for him or comparison for me. It's always been Steve Young. Since the middle of the season last year a couple of things stand out his instincts and reactions in the pocket or just absolutely ridiculous and they kind of you quake to hit it yardage in their offense and his ball placement. A Lotta guys in the NFL are accurate. Throwers but you can go place the football where you want to different types of throws you making that he just doesn't really good job in the field you can. You can get into empty packet in. This is in a way very Tom. Brady like where he'll try to find. Our leverage is the best for me. What matchup is the best for me? How can I manipulate the coverage with my with my eyes and so he just has a really good skill set of seeing the full picture. So just that the athleticism that both those guys have for me was a conference Steve. Young and he'll do really really well. He will overcome anything that gets thrown his way in Cincinnati. I Love Joe Borough. And how he transitioned this pacheer into Joe. Brady's offense and what I love most guys even when his receivers last year we're covered and that wasn't often because of how talented that receiver core was. He found a way to throw them open. He could manipulate his receivers body with the accuracy that he displayed. And really even when you were covered you work covered because of just how top shelf that accuracy wasn't the way he moved in the pocket. Dan You described that he always stayed in the throwing posture kind of maneuver his body to deliver the throw accurately progress so incredibly well last year that I think. Cincinnati has a home run quarterback under center for the next decade change. I agree with both of you guys. I mean there's really nothing to not like about. What would you saw from job a year ago and I think some of the fit with. What Zack Taylor wants to do? A rhythm we also have be able to create and nothing Mel Kiper then strong and right on this in terms of the Cincinnati bengals and who they aren't as an organization. You just think about it. They were a double digit win. Team from two thousand twelve through twenty fifteen. I you know this idea that you cannot win Cincinnati. I don't know if that's totally accurate. And so they are rebuilding situation for the gets built around a quarterback. It had as good a year is probably anybody can remember in college football in a year. All right Dan Orlovsky looking glass half empty. But these guys have a major transition coming out. And everybody's got a flaw in their game. Let's look at what they're going to have to work on. And we'll start with Joe Borough. I mean we're going to nitpick here with Joe Borough big time right. Try to find something. I'd say this if you were going to say one thing that he does not do. Incredibly wealth is arm strength and so the reality of the NFL is the windows that you throw into smaller. And they closed quicker and so. How quickly does he adjusted? And then Greg touchdown this with you know throwing some guys that were covered open. We don't see that often the NFL. Not often you throw in four or five balls that are kind of opportunity balls downfield and guys are going to make every single one so how quickly it just to the windows and then how quickly he just trusting some guys in the NFL? That can do that because some guys you see. You cannot trust to do that and so that's going to be. I don't want to call it. A flaw that his biggest kind of growth. For to know thyself. You know to so many incredible treats and oftentimes those traits lead him to play a little bit too much like Russell Wilson. He needs to be more like drew. Brees where it's understanding listened scrambling not your strength. Running around is not your strength. Your strengths getting through progressions and getting the ball your hands. That will keep you safe. That's going to be the biggest growth for him just in her. I think we're now that the chargers have him daime to unlock and aggressive mindset for Justin. Herbert he needs to believe that he is the offense that he's the superhero of that offense. Not that he's just the quarterback so they've got to get him to be aggressive kind of trust the physical talents and physical traits that he has and believe in his mind. Make any throw and just be aggressive with the football and and and believe that you can throw people open and make the perfect throat. Because he's got so much talent but he's got to believe in himself a little bit more in his talent. Nfl Jordan love. Don't assume you know a lot of times. Quarterbacks get told. Don't predetermine where you're going to throw. The football. Never believed in that. You need to know where you're going to throw the football. Don't assume who you're going to throw the football too. And he would kind of lose his eyes because he would stare at one way and assume it was gonNA move certain defenders and come back in. Just throw the ball blindly right to linebackers and underneath coverage or safeties under underneath garbage. So he's got to get to a point where he listens to his feet more in place reactionary with his is rather than just assuming things going on with the defense so they all have their own flaws. They all have their own challenges to the coaching staff. That they're going to go to. And the biggest thing is how quickly those guys can minimize those flaws and maximize those strengths. All Listen Gregg Dan and got to weigh in on this earlier. But you weren't with us so I'd be curious what you thought about the decision by the packers to draft your love in the first place Jordan love. I couldn't be happier. I get a couple of years to just sit back and watch one of the best to ever do it right in front of me learning from him and tried to adopt some of the things that he's done into my game and frankly when you look at Jordan love guys have his highest ceiling as any quarterback in this draft as far as just raw horse power. He can throw it down the field. You can fit in tight windows. He's a better athlete than you realize. When he's out and about in the pocket however connell acquit. Dan Just alluded to when his feet are not underneath them and when he predetermined where he's going to throw the football and the coverage dictates otherwise he's an absolute disaster. The Guy has to understand. That are progressions and you need to go from one to two to three and allow your feet to talk to you. But when his feet are planted and they're stable and they're setting and he's decisive he might be the most impressive amongst all the quarterbacks in the NFL draft. Every quarterback has those head scratching interceptions. One that we all know you watch it and go. As soon as it left his hands he wanted that one back. We all know it and everyone has them even the great ones have them but the reality is that when you watched or there's just too many on them and I think that's why I would be a little bit concerned about how this plays out in Green Bay. One of the things really the best way to get better is to actually play. And if you just look at the next two seasons unless Green Bay just decides that they're going to trade Aaron Rodgers after this year which there'd be a massive cap hit with that. I don't know how you really know Jordan. Love is improving on some of the mistakes that he made a Utah State against really at all times. Low caliber you know opponents so I think that the adjustment while it can be a good thing to learn behind a great at the same time. You need to be out there in around. Live bullets the figure out and make some mistakes to to improve. I think that's going to be a challenge for them to my agree with that the reason why I do really like the fit though with Matt. Leflore in this offense is this. Offense is so predicated on in Greg. Used this phrase your feet tell you where to throw the football in talking about getting through progressions so often he would just like all right. That is going to be open and throw it and the offense to the packers are going to run his colleague. Shanahan Mike Shannon and Gary Kubiak offense where Jordan love is going to have those bad habits. Kinda stripped down and he will learn how to play quarterback really from the ground up rather than top down and so he'll trust his feet to tell him where he throws the ball and to Greg's point if he gets there that physical talent is so unique. Mike Tannenbaum joins us for the first time this afternoon and like pay when you think about Jalen hurts and you think about a good productive fit who stands out for me. It's easy. It's the Baltimore Ravens. He reminds me of a player that works. And I had in Brad Smith. Because he's so dangerous with the ball in his hands he could run it and he can throw it. He had thirty two touchdowns last year. People will remember at Oklahoma though. He also had twenty rushing touchdowns. Could you imagine the amount of pressure that Baltimore offense can put on opposing defenses? If he's in the backfield with Lamar Jackson in terms of two players who can run it and throw it. I think has a good skill set in terms of good foundation. He has to improve his downfield. Accuracy is accuracy overall. This year was pretty good at sixty nine point seven percent but my concerns or gain the ball down the field but Baltimore would be a great place for him to start his career. Mike you mentioned Brad Smith. It's funny because Brad Smith would have been coming out of college right now. He would have been a quarterback and not a receiver so to me. It's a that's an interesting comparison right there but I look at this guy. One thing we know about him. He is a winner. An absolute winner two-time SEC offensive player of the year. If I if I recall but when I look at them I think New England is a perfect spied. Look saving goes back that history with a ballot check and there's no reason why this guy can't get it done. Obviously he's GonNa do it a little differently his his his legs or a huge weapon and it would look different. But I don't want that he's a winner and I wouldn't be surprised if bill bell checks in the same way I am and he goes out and he drafts this young man. I'd see it at says. Seattle guys and it's because right now when you look at the backup quarterback situation for the seahawks it's a little grim and frankly Russell Wilson's been absolutely incredible staying healthy throughout the course of his career. But you put Jalen hurts is in a situation like that where he can learn from excellent quarterback in his own right and develop over. The course of time keeps them in the second round guys. I don't see it. I mean I don't see him contributing right away because frankly you mentioned him being more like Brad Smith. I see a more being Tim tebow winner. Yes absolutely physical absolutely very hard worker very strong very diligent unbelievable intangibles. All of those things are true but there's also very sporadic with his feet. His accuracy is very inconsistent and has ball and timing with the way he anticipates throws isn't always there so I think Jalen hurts is a long-term project that needs to be figured out and kind of learn under a great pro like Russell Wilson out in Seattle where it can be exclusively backup to add to add is. It's the action that the teach sets the floor and the character system ceiling. This Guy Los Appall. He's a great competitor as REX. Lou and I agreed. His game is far from complete. But it's a really good base to start with very productive at two different programs. He gets around the right coaching staff and if they could clean up this accuracy issue. You could hit big later on the strath with somebody like Jalen. Now Louis Riddick. Here Jim Nagy is here. We got a full house. Let's let's talk about winners from last night. Round one winners Mel. I'll start with YOU MINNESOTA. Vikings I think. Rick and the job he did get players at the fort in which they really are a bargain and a good value just in. Jefferson. I thought we go. Maybe middle of I moved up after running that four four three with all that great productivity at Lsu then Jeff gladly gladly at the end of the first round about a guy now with Jefferson helping out that wide receiver spot. A major void in Jefferson is a guy hightower can come in and be ready to produce right away and then I think you look at a guy on the other side of the ball in gladness who uses his hands well enough to basically break up the past without causing any penalty flags to be thrown. Very intuitive cornerback. I thought he would be. Maybe a late first early second. They traded back so they didn't reach at in. Stretch it a bit. They took him at a at a point where it was more palatable than where they were picking. I give the wrecks bill and a lot of credit the Minnesota Vikings an eighth grade for day one. Yeah I almost went San Francisco here but I agree with Mel love. These two picks for the Vikings. They addressed a couple of big needs. Don't know what happened with digs up there. But as Mel talked about Justin Jefferson's a high high football character guy. He's GonNa come in and adjust really quickly played great in the slot. This year for was a different player inside than it was on the perimeter and then he's got the huge catch radius. He's the guy that Joe Borough trusted. You just put the ball up to. And he would make a play for him. So reminds me of Michael Thomas from the New Orleans saints really similar comparable player and then Jeff. Gladdy really fun player to watch on tape. You know the only real knock is size. But he doesn't play small he so aggressive. He's feisty fast. He's athletic and as Mel talked about getting his hands on balls. Twenty-six passes defense the past two years. That seems like Mike Zimmer type of pick. I really like what the Vikings did. Well Jim you go with San Francisco. I am going to go with San Francisco and I'll tell you this general manager John Lynch. He absolutely knocked it out the park. I've thought on the first day you know you. Trade back one spot in the first round pick up devan kin law who may be one of the top two or three most explosive players pound for pound in this draft the guy who's going to really dispatch to the other first round picks that they have on their defensive line and he's going to be one of those got one of those guys who may have the highest upside and the most untapped potential of all of them right now and that includes. Nick Bosa so adding Devan Kit law that expect tackler move and then they come back with the twenty fifth pick and they think one of my favorite guys out of Arizona State branded Naik a guy who is the ultimate catch and run big. Play Guy The guy who can take it to the house on wide receiver screens. Quick slants quick dig routes and he's also a master at running the double moves down the field and he's just a big play wedding the happen. That's exactly what they needed and the wide receiver core Joe Manager John Lynch head coach. Sal Kyle Shanahan plus from me all right. Yeah easy greater there. Louis Riddick I like a plush to von Kendra had the best family reaction. He wins out. I don't know if we give an award for that but I just did the. Nfl draft for students tonight seven eastern on ESPN ABC and the NFL network. The bengals once again. Take things off then. They will be followed by the colts the lions and the giants Patriots. So go figure. Stop me if you've heard this four. Enter the night with the most fix of day two of any team in this draft. All right. Plenty to go We've got safeties. David mckinney and Antoine Winfield. Junior they are. The top melts list of best available prospects. Also out there skill position players De Andrea Swift. Jk Dobbins and Michael Pittman junior mill. Who's your favorite? Still on the board mckinney. Think about a guy if you got a list of the best pure football I forgetting speed. Forget all that in those numbers strength. Four six three but he plays a lot faster than that. It's all over the field making plays yet. Ninety five tackles dispatched ear three sacks intercepted three passes for four fumbled. You will be a great second round pick me you will provide an attitude and leadership to the back end of a defensive secondary the NFL. P- yeah I'm glad went mckinney. Because I almost did but I'm going with AJ Nessa deepens event from Iowa Twenty six and a half career sacks double digits each of the last two years not a real twitchy guy off the edge. Put a big body rusher. He's got feel he's got effort. He's going to get on the field next year in and be a big big contributor for some team go with Jonathan Taylor shocking. I know look. This is the most productive college football running back in his first three years. I three years in the history of college football one thousand nine hundred yard plus three straight years now. I know my man Melkite. Were sitting there going. But Louis doesn't catch the ball out of the backfield. He has ball security issues. But these are things that are correctable fundamental aspects of his game. It's something you can attribute to. Wisconsin bought security issue. Something he will be coached out. And I'll tell you this he's going to be whoever picks early on the second day and Lou. Jk Dobbins runs fierce ball. Juries improve hands have to get a little bit better in a couple of drops this year runner. He's as good as Jonathan Taylor and the Andrea Swift versus kid added Georgia figures. Look at Second Round. Picks as well swift to me. When you looked at completeness he checks. The box is now. He's not as dynamic in my opinion runner as Jonathan Taylor. He certainly doesn't have the ball security issues. He's good receiver. Not Maybe as good as Clyde Edwards layer went to the chiefs at the end of the first round last night. But all around completeness is running back wide and a second round normally should have been a first round pick but the priority now is running backs anymore. And I've been talking about that. Seems like for thirty years but I think all three of those backs Taylor swift and Dobbins will be great. Second round draft choices take from looks to go early in today's draft when round two gets underway according to milk hyper junior the strong arm. Jacob East and the best quarterback prospect left on this board last season sixteen percent of eastern pass attempts traveled twenty or more air yards actually a higher rate them. Both Joe Borough Bilo. The question will the Patriots. Bring in either of these guys. The question really is the Patriots. Just pick some players either way We faked are Mike. Reese Mike what can you tell us about the New England? Chances of ringing a quarterback at some point tonight. Wendy the Patriots. Have five picks. This is really the heart of their draft and specific to the quarterback question. It's interesting to go back to last night. There at twenty three and Jordan love is right there for them with this big quarterback question and they just trade right out of there. Which in part is a statement of confidence to what they have on the roster which includes Jarret Stidham but they still would like to add a quarterback told at some point in this draft. But here's two key points. They are not going to force it. Wendy. They have a lot of needs on this roster and the second point that was brought up to me as a unique position you know. Espn stats and information. Are Great Department pointed out that about twelve? Quarterbacks on average are drafted each year over the last decade so teams. Really only have a small handful of quarterbacks that that they would actually consider drafting in the draft so a lot of things have to fall into place similar like it did for the Patriots in two thousand fourteen. When Jimmy Garoppolo was there late in the second round my thank you and I certainly believe as well that New England won't force it. That's just really not in their DNA. Usually not how they do things. Foxborough Dan Orlovsky. I'll start with you and the Patriots quarterback situation. Would you take a quarterback? If you're in New England I'm Mike brings up a great point of the belief of Jarret Stidham kind of showed up last night gig from would be something that listen. If he falls to one of those four third round picks jake problem would be somebody that I think really fits New England. If you think about the things that the intangibles right that are totally in line. With what New England once Boso. He fits their style of offense. He's really good throwing the ball with in-between the numbers. He's in the pocket. He's got great command. He's a ball distributor. It's kind of your dinking dump. Stahl of quarterback with his ability to play point guard in in those regards. So I could see jake from you know but I don't think that New England needs. This is the way I look at it. Where did they have geared steam ranked coming out of the draft and they kind of elevated their belief in him and is there anybody left in this draft? That it's not a competition thing. Is there anybody left in this Jack? They think or. They have graded higher than they had geared stadium right like if they had. Jacobson ranked higher than jeered. Maybe do that Jake from graded higher than they had geared system than maybe but I don't think they force it to one guy would say it would be jake from. Yeah I say last night. When they passed on the opportunity to add Jordan love he was the last guy in this draft that has as much or more talent than Jarret Stidham. So when you let him go. Now you're dealing with guys that you're GONNA have to be high intangibles guys and to me. There's two in this in this draft. Jake Frahm we've talked about and also jalen hurts going back to my time in New England. Both these guys that value system in New England there Jim Rats. Those guys are really hard to find winners their leaders you look at. Jalen hurts probably came into this process as a fourth round. Pick the more the. Nfl has spent time round this the more they bought into them so just from just from knowing what New England values at that position and a guy that might not have the same arm telling physical tools that Jarrett Stidham has because his very good. I'm a huge believer in Jarret. Stidham you're going to have to have some of these other things to compensate and the two guys that have them. Are Jake from in Jalen hurts. You know what's interesting to me? Their belief in jared actually started last year guys on Labor Day when they cut Brian Hoyer so last year with championship aspirations. They're going to season with Tom. Brady and a very small sample set on Jarrett Stidham. So not only do they believe in him last night over love but it goes back a year ago to just one preseason that he was their backup quarterback for me and I know Dan. It's GonNa be shocking that you and I actually seat backs a little bit differently. But his Jacob Jacobsen was being out by Jacob from Georgia. He went up to Washington. You have one good year. He's sort of the prototypical in the pocket quarterback he has to clean up his footwork his accuracy. I think maybe at the bottom of the second third round I like his upside and even though from has incredible intangible guys I agree with that. I just think at the end of the day from the fields can be condensed because he can't get the ball outside the numbers and that's why would separate eastern over from because at least at the NATO easing can get the ball down the field outside the numbers. And no matter. How smart how studious. And how dependable from is I. Don't think his arm abilities can be good enough mighty. I'm sitting here trying to figure out how you draft me because pounds. I'd appreciate how did you. How did you pass on the in the first round man listen Eastern has got so much physical intrigue you talked about the arm strengthen the in the New England tree so so to speak. I would say this. If the New England Patriots believed that Jacob off the field and in intangibles embitter ship qualities can match his physical qualities. Then they should take with the second round pick. I mean that's the truth is if they believe that those things can match the physical talent. Take Him with your newly acquired second round pick but that's a question that New England has to answer and Mike T. That wouldn't have been a question for me. Man I would have been. I would have been the same on on both levels okay. You're you check both boxes. He's still checking Mike. All right guys. Thank you very much more. An atom back with us our intrepid insiders as we look ahead to round two and guys speaking of which because it won't be long. What will you be watching tonight? And we'll start with the quarterbacks well with Jake from here. I think the expectation that I'm hearing is that maybe he gets taken into the third round. He had these great intangibles. Yes quarterback coaches fall in love with them but the physical skills is tantamount pointed out or pretty average. It's interesting. He has the distinction of tasting off to five star quarterbacks and both Jacobson and Justin fields but that was because Kobe smart the head coach at Georgia saw. He was a game manager. And that's why you step with some believe. That was a mistake at Georgia now. So Adam go ahead yours and more. You heard gymnast. He talks about jalen hurts elevating stockton this process. He came in as round pick. And I believe he's going to be going in the second round tonight. Just too many teams like the colts ever need. A quarterback steelers have need a quarterback. There's a lot of teams out there that need quarterbacks and I believe Jalen hurts elevated his value into the second round of this draft tonight. More definitely become an intriguing guy and you know. Let's talk about Jacob and I was a little surprised Jim. Nagy saying that the intangibles but listen He. Here's the prototypical size on the arm and some pedigree there because Tony since certainly played in the NFL but as teams have peeled back the onion. What they don't like is what they're hearing about his work ethic it does not meet the standard and will it ever meet the standard and so even in this off season leading up to the draft. So Jacob Beeson is intriguing on tape. I don't know that you've got glowing reports from Washington sap or even from the Georgia staff so I do think there are team. There's a team or to this as too much talent not to not to take a chance on and Moto's the rookie quarterback that could be in play tonight. The veterans who are on the trade bloc have been in play. And we'll be in play all weekend long. You Store Trent Williams. The redskins have been having negotiations with teams as of the Jaguars about Iana Godoi. But they have said that they are going to be unable to deal. Yana Gaga in their point in their mind now again. There are other veterans out there. Andy Dalton as a pricey contract number was insanity. Janaka gangways that guy. The Jacksonville doesn't think you'd be able to deal. I think of all the veterans the one. That's most likely to be dealt at some point. This weekend would be the Washington offensive tackle tremblings. He's the name to watch. He's the name to monitor the other players. The other veterans were time where some of them with the big money. They command like. Yana can. God where Matt Jude on. Whoever WOULD BE? They'd have to take a physical impassive physical. It's hard to get a physical. These days and teams are going to be leery about paying money at this point in time to players like that plenty of talent still on the board as we enter date to. If you're a prospect that was disappointed by last night's results. Consider THIS LAST YEAR. Second Rounders actually took more snaps last season then. Did those drafted I. I like it. Rex Who do you like tonight? I like Xavier mckinney out of Alabama one of the most productive players in the entire draft. It's hard to believe we still there. He ran a poor forty. Who Cares? Put the tape on. The guy is a tackling machine. He makes plays all over the place so I love the guy the next guy is and Anton Winfield. The all he is he's like his dad. He's short who cares not smalley short. But he's attacked another guy that'll tackle you. And he can flat run grading coverage he's got the pedigree both these guys are going to be stars in the League first year starters. I look at K. J. Hill out of the house state. You talk about a kid. That's been coach really well under Brian Hotline. And you find a team. That's looking for a slot receiver. Listen this kid can absolutely route you up in a team is going to like him tonight. Take him tonight and then add them to an offense and he will wear out the middle of the field and then listen jalen hurts one of the greatest stories that we've had come into the draft in a long time in his jury wrote a time in the NFL where it's about what you can do. Not What you can't do in put him on this team tonight. That run the ball really well believes has a good defense and man. You can add to your football team and just opened up a ton of new place offense. I like those players tonight.

National Football League football Green Bay packers Joe Borough Aaron Rodgers REX Ryan Justin Herbert Alabama Lsu chargers bengals Dolphins League Randy Randy Cincinnati Bengals Green Bay Cincinnati cowboys Tom Brady
Raiders; first-round review

Silver & Black Pride

14:59 min | 1 year ago

Raiders; first-round review

"Hey everybody was going on this Bill Williamson. This is a just pod baby on the Silver Black Pride podcast network my second pod for you guys in. It's a big one or Friday about noon then working on morning after working all night and loving every minute of it. We got you covered. Hey guys I am bs in you. I worked at a lot of places over the years. I've covered this team. Continuously since two thousand and eight. I've worked at a lot of places and the content that we've been putting out prior to the draft and then last night and then today I've ever been part of anything like this is unbelievable what we're doing for you guys trying to make you the smartest raider fans in the nation and it's for free. How about that well? Let's stop some draft. You know look it. It wasn't what we expected. The the positions were the raiders certainly wanted to receiver and cornerback. That was their plan. I'm glad that I mean obviously rugs at twelve or net at at nineteen. Do I love it? It doesn't matter of I love it matters if it works out. I don't love it I understand it. I'm not saying it's terrible. I think if we're sitting here talking about Judy and Murray today or Lemon Murray. I think we'd all be happier. I present on twitter this morning and most of the answers were the other way. A lot of them were like well. What C. Three years well? That's of course. Obviously I think that means no answer like that But I think the biggest problem I have is that Judaism Denver and Murray's in in La chargers. I think that hurts. I think the AFC had a very good draft last night with the chiefs. Did Not loving their quarterback pick by the charges. But we'll see. I'm more of a tour guide. I know he has injury. But a more to more of a tour guide than borough. I know he has injuries as who I am. That's the way it is These picks I think I've tweeted last week. And I got a lot of positive responses to that tweet be interesting if I tweeted today. What it would be because let's face it. A lot of fans are gonNA like whatever whatever their team does. Because they're hoping and praying and I get it you want to and it's what's done is done and don't get me wrong. I don't think what happened. Last night was a disaster by any means and I saw some national guys put good grades on it. It's just it was interesting. And that's who they wanted. So that's who they got and good for them. You know. I mean we talked to so much you know about draft coverage you talk about for months and then it just happens and all the theories get blown out of water. All three of those receivers were available. And the raiders told you who their favor who the receiver number one was. That was very interesting Monday. Peter King wrote that mayock loves lamb and GRUDEN loves rugs and there's previous reports that gruden wanted to speed guy whoa re rugs the speed guy. Well Gruden wins and he always wins so I I think that's the reminder of the people that think will Mike Mayock the draft. No he doesn't. He prepares to draft but Jon Gruden presses that button that last night was a reminder of that and of course you know may opt talk greatly about rugs. Because he's on his team and then he certainly likes him. He disliked lamb. Better reportedly I think rugs could be a really great part of this offense. I think it's going to open up the playbook a Jon Gruden and that's important. He's given them a Grooten Guy I don't know if he could be receiver number one You know he is. He has better skills in most fast guys. Most FACA fast guys. I'm a fat guy. Most fast guys just a fast. But this guy's got hands. He had a very little drop rate. he's a really good worker. I love that. So we'll see very competitive. Love that check and a lot of boxes You know let's face it though becoming a successful receiver right away in the national up. Oik is hard for anybody so can he be a number? One of the raiders. Need a number one but what might be is a lot of a lot of waller slants with rugs and Karkin throw the land and you get Williams out there and you get Renfro and I think you have shot to be better and you didn't get Jordan love last night. I you know I saw those reports. I wasn't thinking that was real. I never say never. So I wasn't totally peeing on it but you know. Hey Derek quarterback again We'll see what happens. They get a rookie today tomorrow. But Still Garrett Car Marcus Mariota so Derek Carr better so we might see a different type of number rotation assist them like receiver group dish year. Oppose the true number one. I think waller helps you do that. I think renfrew helps you do that. The key to this is. You can't have any of these guys get injured or then that system that that rotation gets a little crazy so you can't have these guys injured. So we'll see. The raiders got a receiver that can blow the top off of defense rock and roll. The broncos got a receiver that can be a star. The cowboys got receiver. Be Star I. I applaud the cowboys. Were taken lamp. They didn't go system they didn't they didn't go need now. Let's go to nineteen. The raiders went need as soon as that draft Pakistan picked milk. Kuyper junior said. Hey Second Round Guy Early Second Round Guy Daniel Jeremiah. Eighth Guy on my list now after Henderson and the number one starter open. No from Ohio State got picked at three and nine and by the way. The Jaguars Raiders of favor at nine by taking Henderson took that idea out of their dead good. It becomes your favorite ice cream flavor. Who's the best cornerbacks and certainly took a dip? So you know. Terrell went sixteen reached by thou- pins they should have just took the great receiver. Take the best available player. The raiders reached they. Did they may love the player. They're gonNA say but they reached an happened You know and what might say the media which I was on last week in the conference call. Let's not reach and I think he reached. That doesn't mean the kids going to be a bad pick you know. He's had some mischief problems. But he's a good run stopper which is important. I know he's got to be a good past operas well but you know he's tough. He's a competitor. Let's see let's see what happens You know I I I like Molin at. They're at they're gonNA see what I say Johnson but query they fill those are two needs. I would've took if the draft would fail and I was running the show for the raiders. I would've took lamb and Murray would have said. Hey Boys you guys come from Oklahoma. And you becoming Las Vegas Raiders. Right now gentlemen. Let's go and but I don't run the show and I'm not a smarter football guy than those guys are. I'm not but hey again and I'm not I'm not throwing water on these picks. I'm just saying they took their needs and they took two guys. That were surprised that those spots. But I'm not saying it's bad I'm not saying they can't be good players. You know we will see again. I don't like those two guys went to division teams at like it. I tweeted this last night. Did this morning everything's a blur. And this wasn't negative. This is a fat one guy yelling at me for being negative. There's nothing negative. It's just a fact that five years ago. The raiders took a Alabama receiver at number four and traded him. They replaced him what it replays them. But they took it Alabama receiver at number twelve five years later three years ago. The raiders took a cornerback from Ohio state and number twenty four and they traded him and now this year three years later at number nineteen taken. Ohio state cornerback. I I'm not saying it's bad. I'm not saying it's good. I'm just saying what do a fact it's interesting and you know what these guys right. 'cause YOU'RE NOT GONNA get better if you keep drafting trading guys look at Jacksonville does so right. Now it's our net and Jacobs from coil. Mac will see how the second pick round bit goes to the bears in the third round. Pick goes for the raiders. But that's how looking right now But yeah it was an interesting night for the raiders. What's my immediate great? I don't know B B minus doesn't matter what I she do tonight. I think they should try to get up and trade for second round pick. The problem is because they didn't trade yesterday. Everybody thought that draft was going to be chaos. There was no trades in the top. Ten what was the thirteen was the first trade. There wasn't that many trades wasn't that chaotic it was smooth. Kudos to all The problem is if you know they'll probably have the trade to of their third round picks again in the second round so they do say they get fifty two of the rams just saying so they got fifty two and they got eighty one and then they don't pick until the fourth round the only have two picks tomorrow and it's GonNa be hard for them to get picks tomorrow if they don't get extra picks today if they don't get extra Thurday picks today. It's going to be hard tomorrow to do that. So we might see small raider draft class now. The raiders have seventy nine players under contract. So they don't they only have and now they have two more so it's eighty one so they only have nine more spots go on West. They cut a bunch of guys. They're not GONNA get a lot of undrafted free agent sell but I wanted to see a defense lineman versus events alignment you know. Maybe a running back a safety linebacker. I think they'll get good players. I think they would let him get in but if they don't if they don't make a train the second round maybe you know I mean. Three third round picks in eleven picks ban. Ain't freaking bad. Is it that ain't freaky man? So we'll just see how it goes but you know look it. I like that. They drafted the people they wanted to. Because they're the football guys on the football writer so they made their convictions and we'll see and they're going to have to live with it. If rugs is not a number one and just kind of complimentary guy and judy tears it up and the mile high city and lamb becomes a superstar in Dallas. Well that was a mistake but if rugby comes up to number one in and makes that raider offense a real flavor in a real gives it a real personality and then they win if Kenneth Very becomes the glue to the chargers defense and beats up the raiders. All time well that was a mistake but if Arnett becomes a tough rugged complete pass run stopper as cornerback in it becomes a real personality of that silver and black young defense. Well that's a win and that's what the draft is. It's a gamble. Cincinnati Gamba last night. They all freaking gambled so we'll just have to see how it goes but very interesting if Oakland slabs Las Vegas. Raiders are anything that they are interesting. There is always something going on with his team. And I'll tell you this you gotta check out silver and black pride. We are selling with her friends. At breaking t henry rugs robe was that a borrower move last night Henry. Rugs Robe T. Shirt you gotta see him. They'RE BEAUTIFUL. They're one of the best type. T shirts this genre Kinda. Take an opportunity to make an A. T. Shirt I've ever seen you can check it out on our site. You could check it out on our twitter account you can check it out my twitter account but yet God and look at them. They are beautiful. What a job. So Hey guys have fun enjoy Kentucky Awfully early in the week. Wrap this draft up. Do some grades appreciate you guys? Thank you so much like. I said our main goal is to make you. The most intelligent raider most intelligent most well-informed Raider fans on the Internet in the world in the nation. So this is just part baby. This is silverback ride. This is Bill Williamson Take. Care have a great day.

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NFL Draft First Round Props with John Ryan April 23, 2020

Sports Gambling Radio - By BangTheBook

35:36 min | 1 year ago

NFL Draft First Round Props with John Ryan April 23, 2020

"And once again. Thank you for joining me here on this Thursday April twenty third edition of Bank New Book Radio. My name is Adam Burke your host for the next half hour so as we talk about the first round of the NFL draft with professional handicapper. John Ryan at John Ryan Sports and the number one on twitter. We're talking about pets that we're looking at would talk about the wide receivers. What happens with the number three pick with the lions and kind of examine? What's going on out there? In the betting markets for tonight's first round overpaying the book Dot Com. Check out Wednesday's edition of Bang Book Radio with or NYSTROEM OF ROTA world. Lots of draft stuff in that and I've been doing a lot of draft coverage here over the last couple of weeks looking at some of the odds that are out there so my thought process for the first round tonight. Good stuff over there at the website and for this we got a couple of big stakes races down at Oaklawn Park. Somebody writing up previews for those over. At bankable dot com violation this end every edition of Bloomberg radio presented by our friends over at sportsbook bTV and the number two hundred. Is that Promo Code. One hundred percent deposit Metros for the Sports Book One Hundred Percent Deposit Match Bonus for the live casino at the SL. It's only a game until you bet we bring our only yesterday. That is John Ryan at John Ryan sports the number one on twitter John. How's it going today man? I'm doing okay atom trying to figure out if I even know what day it is and You're just looking at different world only. Yeah we definitely do. I mean. At least we know what day it is today because it is the first round of the NFL draft here on Thursday night why to fit one more show in cram this went in for you with some additional draft thoughts here from John and I and let's ahead and start right away by just talking about this draft in general this virtual concept now. All these team employees are going to be at their separate homes. They're going to be trying to zoom in or skype in or whatever these teams try to do. I can't see this thing going off without a hitch tonight. Yeah it's GonNa be a a as you know today. I had problem so even getting logged into to our show For various reasons. I'm a tech savvy. Guide it just Kinda blew my mind so to your point. I can't imagine Literally sitting in a basement. Bet there's GonNa be some kind of communication breakdown and they had ten minute window between drafts. We SEE MINNESOTA LOSE A pick a couple of years ago and that didn't involve this stuff So I would think there's GonNa be a little leeway I haven't read anything about that It's usually you know it gets phoned in and then a guy puts it on a three by five card gives it to another guy. It's all dressed up and given to goodell around me saying it's very nice for goodell tonight because he's not gonna get booed every time he comes on stage. Yeah that's true He'll he'll certainly get booed on social media and some of the other forms of communication out there but something I was Kinda thinking about here. You know I've kind of been expecting a conservative first round here where. I don't think they're going to be as many trades as people expect. We could see teams kind of move up for the quarterbacks and whatnot. I don't think he'll be as busy as people expect on the other hand. You know a Lotta Times. You're kind of sitting there waiting for the team in front of you or the two teams in front of you to make their picks before you make your final determination and you've got you know effectively six seven minutes to decide on that before you try to tell Roger Goodell or whoever's in charge of that what you're going to do so I don't know you're GonNa have to give some of these teams a little bit of leeway maybe a time bank. Maybe some extensions something like that. But it's tough because I think these teams would feel a lot more comfortable if they could complete their trades this afternoon but because draft process is so fluid. And you don't know exactly who the team in front of you is going to take. It may be kind of difficult to do that so I don't know I think this thing could just be pure chaos tonight. Yeah I I wouldn't be surprised. I I think I agree with you with the The number of training is not gonNA be as active as people think But I do think there's going to be the possibility of a blockbuster Going after Detroit's number three pick and And that's just a gut feeling. I know what I've read on on the Internet and heard on TV that you know it's GonNa take a a king's ransom to get that pick but the fact is that quarterback Herbert than there is a few franchises out there. That might throw away the future for three years to get that guy so I can make a case Some of my buddies here while we've been quarantined here in Philadelphia region that he might be a better quarterback than burroughs What borough borough? I've read somewhere. He's NFL. Ceiling could be limited which I think is a bunch of hog wash. The guy proved in the last year. That work ethic is everything and he put his mind to what he wanted to accomplish. He made one of the biggest advances. I've ever seen any athlete ever make one single season. So I think you're to put a ceiling on him is is ludicrous But how about something completely out the window that the Patriots traded up to get him out of the realm of question. It's been a long time. Since Patriots have even had number one pick because they trade him away and they bring improving players I'm just not convinced that the Patriots aren't setting themselves up possibly for your modify tanking No no offense to the quarterbacks they have right now but they're they're not ones that I think can carry them deep into the playoffs. They don't have the wide receiver core. Brady so I. I thought that that would be near like way out there in left field in which shock. Everybody state did that. But WHO's to say they won't? I think it's one of those things where you kind of have to figure out what package the Patriots could put together to make that. Big of a leap. You're talking about jumping up. You know twenty picks here which is a lot for a team like the lions to give up when they need a top five caliber player. And that's Okuda or if it's Derrick Brown or somebody else remains to be seen but Okuda still the smallest price to go third overall here plus one fifty five in that type of range to other second price at plus two twenty five that would require a trade. Feel this next three to one which is pretty much just in Herbert. That's really the only option. I foresee in terms of a field type of pick. Because he's not actually listed at some places the Derrick Brown. Plus Three fifty. And maybe they do go the safe route with a guy like Derrick Brown. A guy that can't stop the run in the middle of that defense but ultimately I think if somebody trades up. It's four two or Herbert whichever one that they prefer and let people seeing that. Maybe the dolphins move up from five to three and may even take the best offensive Lineman on the board. I guess that kind of falls under this field group as well. I don't really see that being the case. I think that's just conjecture. Click Bait and engagement bate from some of the writers that are out there. Because you're going to get a really good lineman at five if you WANNA take one. I also don't think that you really need to move up to take a quarterback. We know burroughs one chase young as to if the lions keep that. Pickett three. They're going defense with it. They're not going to take a quarterback and at four we know the giants took Daniel Jones and they want an offensive lineman. So I don't really think my you know in my personal opinion. I don't think anybody trades up for that. Lions pick the lions doing their due diligence. And they should. I think there's a pressing need to do that. Because unless you really rate somebody like wills higher than worse or Thomas. You don't need to leapfrog the giants so I think it's just a lot of smoke and I don't think there's going to be a whole lot of fire with that. Three pick personal. I can see that unless like that. There's a significant wildcard like in New England or somebody then I can kind of see it but like you said did jump happen any is gonNA take at least two number ones in the future on top of it and those are late. First round picks in all likelihood to and that's correct pick you up now they. I think another interesting wildcard situation that is worth talking about is the eagles and they need a wide receiver Desperately they need a guy that can stretch sir defenses. There's been rumor. That alshon Jeffery is is actually I guess I would say on the block as as a possibility of being included in a trade to move up but there's so many wide receivers in this draft. This is obviously everybody knows. It's the deepest wide receiver draft. We've seen in more than a decade. And maybe even longer and I I also don't think. Cd LAMB is probably the the top one. Although he's awesome but I have rugs number one Because the speed and the athleticism is just out the window ridiculous. He's a guy that could stretch defenses vertically and horizontally. I said I kinda sarcastically. But you magic Indian lined up in the in the slot against a wide against the linebacker. I mean that would be the mismatch of all mismatches so And I'm not taking it anywhere from CD lamb. Either I mean he's a stud and he could do the same thing That I just I just kind of like the speed and yes lettuces. I'm in I'm sure everybody saw his Youtube videos to engulf the round ball with basketball. Obviously the talented kid has since nets. So we're looking at the wide receiver position kind of looking at some of the odds. That are out there. It seems like right now Jerry. Judy is falling and Jerry. Judy some questions. I don't want to say with the makeup but some questions with a potential surgical situation that he had recently a year or so ago. That didn't really come to light. You know he didn't really he doesn't really have the same kinds of measurable says rugs in the sense that rugs has the big hands like we talked about on yesterday's show with Thorndike. Rugs has the elite level speed. Judy seems to be falling a little. Bit to the point. Where you've got. Cd Lamb likely going first. Rugs going second in that wider triumvirate. But you may have rugs go first. Lamb go second. It all depends on kind of fit if you're the eagles and you're sitting there and you WanNa take a wide receiver you know. You've got judy kind of falling now. So maybe you don't have to move up from twenty one to twelve or thirteen to get a guy that you want whipped up to fifteen or sixteen. Lower costs in terms of draft picks. You have to give up and at the same time you also sit there and say how much more do we like Jerry Judy than adjusted Jefferson or a Denzel mims? Somebody like that. And Jefferson's draft position kind of in that spot twenty one and a half around where Philadelphia's picking we know Denzel minimums has been a pretty popular guy in terms of the. Yes no proper being a first rounder. That's yes or no by this one twenty at some places yes a little bit higher at others so the Eagles have options all these teams that WanNa wide receiver have options as well. But I think the most intriguing storyline here is the movement in the marketplace with Judy's over prop over twelve and a half over thirteen and a half now minus two dollars to thirty in that range. Looks like rugs is going to go. Second now you're gonNA have lamb first rugs. Second Judy third with Judy. Dropping down the board a little bit and I talked about this earlier in the week at Bankbook Dot Com. That you WanNa let the betting markets. Be Your Guide for the draft. The betting markets will tell you with a higher degree of confidence than these mock drafts of. What's going to happen and it looks like right now based on what we're seeing Jerry. Judy is dropping down. Supports here. So maybe that's a trade scenario where the eagles can move up from. Twenty one to fourteen or fifteen or something and get a guy like duty. I think I think that'd be excellent. Fit to Credit. I'm I think Judy's dropping because he had a pretty terrible combine and then he wrote a really pretty bad forty dropped a lot of balls and distancing to be focused at all. That's one of those things we talk about. Maybe the concerns with how this draft plays out. I think a lot of teams will be pretty risk averse. I think there will be more conservative approach to this draft just because of everything that's going on the questionable medicals for some guys have been able to have those in person visits this and that and if you start having concerns about a guy like judy who may very well be the best wide receiver in the draft. Time will tell but you know GM's they're gonNA have their jobs on the line teams ownership fans. They don't care. That distract is being held in the time of Quarantine. They want results. And if you've got worries about Judy or some of these other guys you may take a more conservative approach and with Judy. Yeah the surgery announcement. Then as you mentioned kind of a lacklustre combine and teams have been able to do private workouts or anything like that. So yes so. Teammate ended up getting a really good player that just tested poorly or had some bad things. Come out at the wrong time. Yeah it's GonNa ask you a question of the players of these wide receivers and you're a GM looking at Your Judy and this takeout lamb. Because he's going to be gone. Rugs is going to be gone and again. We're talking about the eagles position here and then you have the kid from. Lsu Jefferson A kid from Arizona State Pittman from USC are you mentioned men's from Baylor One from Te- issue Tissue Jalen a reader. And there's I mean dropping down a little bit further chase Clayton Notre Dame even K. J. Hammer Penn state. Which is not obviously a number one. So scratch him off my list here and then There's a wide receiver from Colorado. Actually heard on on your podcast. Yesterday that was quite impressive Shinno so they say oh. This is your Pool wide receiver select from for the Eagles. If it's your turn to pick so you have a choice should know rigor names then Hagan's Jefferson and Judy. Would you ended up with angers? Would you be okay? I mean to me if I'm staying at twenty one I'm Philadelphia. I don't think Judy's there. I think you have to trade up to get judy. Judy still the Guy I want. I mean I'm not going to let the combine and you know maybe a surgical procedure in the past overcome. What I saw on film. Because I mean I understand Alabama's NFL CALIBER TEAM. Playing College football. But Judy you know. Game tape looks really good. So if I can get him like in trade up at a minimal cost. I'm taking him if not getting Justin Jefferson. Because he's a huge target a great red zone opportunity. I'm not as sold on the other guys. So maybe I even look to either trade back and sort of maximize my position or I take a really good defensive player. That's going to be sitting there and later in the draft take an Antonio Gandhi golden or one of these Michael Pittman. He's a second round grade. I trade up for Chenault in the second round something like that. I don't think you're hard pressed to get a first round wide receiver here unless it's a guy that you really really like. You're going to get great wide receivers throughout the second third and fourth rounds to so to me. Take a safe smart defensive player to help out that side of the ball. And then I get my wide receivers in the second and third rounds if I had the trade up for them or not. That's the idea like Adam. I'm trying to lead you down. That adds a little bit that I know the fans would I would would be crazy mad if they don't take a wide receiver with the first pick. they could draft a pretty darn good cornerback at twenty one and to your point going the second round in an Antonio Gandhi golden from liberty would be awesome. Second Round Pick I think and if pitman store around he would be even better in my opinion so then you you accomplish both goals Kind of in a different way than the fans would like to see you do it. But the eagles were torched last year on the corners. Now they did pick up in agency a stud date you gotta cover both sides of the field too so I like your idea there. Now we're talking about the wide receivers. Here let's touch on this over under five and a half wide receivers in the first round the over minus one sixty here. So that's a pretty juicy proposition understandably so again such a great wide receiver draft here five times actually has that one at minus one forty five on the over a little bit better of a price there but as you sort of go through and look at some of the position. Groups are a little bit deficient here. When after the top? Four offense LINEMAN PRETTY BIG. Drop off from that point forward. Although a lot of it's expected to go in the first round here I think there's only three defensive bags I be really comfortable taking in the first round. You've got obviously Okuda. You've got Henderson and I think. Aj Terrell from Clemson is going to go in the first round here to what I gotta see six wide receivers in the first round right if not seven. I fully agree with that. I think it's going to be seven I definitely think that's over. Bet that I would. I would love to make at five and a half. I actually think that started out at some of the books. May I opened up A month ago at at four and a half you can believe that and now it's up where where it should be but I think I think six is. You can see six going. And it's based on team needs it's not based on our best player available Going back to the eagles theory. We have here. You're right on the cornerbacks. I'm looking at some of the deaths here on the on the big board. And you're right you have top three and then there is. There is a pretty big drop-offs Jets cloudy Aj Ari'el from Clemson. Pretty good though. He's he's dropped down quite a bit over the last couple of weeks to and I have no idea why Maybe that is a strategy. I'm sure the Eagles considered every single possibility situation. But that would really sure up their defense The needs somebody to other than the Sean Jackson to stretch the field of these guys get paid all this big money and I think another interesting one here too is that you've got over under six and a half defensive backs in the first round the under very heavily juice out there kind of seeing that one in the minus two fifty range at some places with under six and a half and this makes sense. So you've Got Okuda you've got Henderson you've got either. Terrell does go in the first round. I think that he probably should. I mean you're talking about a guy coming out of that Clemson football factory. He's kind of one of those safer picks. I think too in the sense that you know he's GonNa Start for you for a long time whether you start him on the strong side corner of the weak side corner whether you want to be against a wide receiver one or not still going to be a really good player. The question then becomes Xavier mckinney Alabama. He's a first round pick it safety For whatever reason. Isaiah Simmons says a linebacker. He's more of a safety kind of hybrid type of guy even to that. You know the manager's discretion is gonNA decide some of these props and that could be a little bit of a dicey thing too depending on how Simmons is labeled mixture. You know exactly what source the books are going to use for that. But if Simmons is labeled as a safety. He's obviously going in the first round beyond that for defensive backs does Christian Fulton go out of Lsu. I'd there's a good chance because again you've got a lot of really positive film on Him. All you've got a guy like shit. The name escapes me now. Are you got a guy like Trevan? Dick's because Trevan digs during the first round a bend being a guy coming out of the Alabama football factory. You've got a lot of question marks with defensive backs wide receivers and offensive. Linemen are pretty cut and dry that they're going to go. I think defensive backs depending on the mock you look at maybe the plus one seventy on over six and a half is worth it but again judging by the minus two fifty on the under that implies to me that we're probably going to get five or six of them here we're not going to see seven again. The betting market being my guide as opposed to the mock drafts. Your I agree with that. I think that there is under It's interesting to that booths corners for highest state. I don't know if that's a prompt bed or not It probably isn't likely to happen with both audibly. Go in the first round On on net is is ranked pretty and was. Oga Does is top three for sure. So let me ask you about this year because there's been a lot of talk about this and you know I think that maybe it happens. I don't think it's going to be the guy that everybody expects it to be. I guess that's kind of my bold prediction here but a running back in the first round right. Now that's over under half running back so basically will a running back draft in the first round yes or no that's minus one fifty S. We look at bet online up. It's one of those things to me where I don't know if it's worth it in today's NFL in particular with a run. I type of running back like Andrea Swift like Jonathan Taylor. I think Clyde Edwards layer is the only first route running back that I would take because of his pass catching ability. But do you. One of them does end up getting taken tonight. The first thirty two picks on the side. It won't be a running back in the first round and the talent level is is a little bit lower than previous seasons. I think overall as a as a body of players but more importantly I think you know how what's the average lifespan of running back in the NFL. It used to be two and three quarters years and it's dropping. It just seems like every year. It's it's less and less and you know. The giants obviously took a shot at up on Barclay. And I think that's GONNA payoff but I don't see a Barclay on this list. Not even close Jonathan Taylor who said all kinds of national records in Wisconsin Tremendous young man. Great character definitely could build a team around him at the NFL level But you're going to pick him as a as your first pick that would have to be one of the teams late in the round. I think that would Would pull the trigger on that and so we're going to grab him. But I think realistically a lot of these guys will go early second round to maybe even mid mid to late second round so you with all the other talent. That's out there that we've already talked about the offense of linemen and there's even a prompt that out there. Are there going to be more wide? Receivers taken in an offensive Lineman. And what was the last time you ever saw something like that? So you soon that it's going to be six wide receivers and let's say five offensive linemen that's eleven picks right there And then you have all the defensive backs you have. Some tremendous defensive tackles. The Guy from Auburn obviously is going to go very is going to be the third pick unless Detroit trades it And then you just run out of numbers and suddenly there's no running back in the first round and I think that's how it's GonNa go With the exception of you mentioned uh swift from Georgia he's definitely proven in indefinite can play at the NFL. Nfl level can start immediately. So yes there is through a monkey wrench in my own theory there by saying that that a lot of these guys have the talent to replace the existing starter and in my thing replacing your starter. Who's gone through the NFL? Season I don't think the fans really realize what Monday mornings are like in the training room for some of these guys a when they get hit they get hit hard and they have protected gear on. Yes that's true but you know if you see what their bodies look like in the end a bruising and everything else that goes on week after week after week that's why these younger guys coming in can replace the existing starter or at least share time with the existing store so that would throw a wrench into my theory. That won't be one but I I'll stick with my guns here and say that won't be a running back in the first round. The only thing that I could change my perception regarding a first-round running back is that you look at two teams that had really high profile success in the playoffs last year. Tennessee and San Francisco and these are two teams that you know effectively. Run RUN first offense. Obviously we know. San Francisco does with their trio of backs and using a fullback and in a really good offensive line and obviously for Tennessee with Derrick Henry. Derrick Henry is presence is what really helped elevate Ryan Tannehill. So you've got some teams that I guess you could say Baltimore to kind of a run first offense. But because they've got a Lamar Jackson. They've got that mobile quarterback they can run options. They can do lot of quick run outs and stuff like that. That's just a different kind of offense. I you kind of sort of look at this thing and you say okay. What is the recipe for success in the NFL going forward? Is it the New Orleans Saints? Is it swingback? Alvin Kamara type of guy. If so then your guys Clyde Edwards or maybe to a lesser extent Ajay Dobbins. Who's also really good receiving back. Is it a Kansas City thing? We've got you run. Guy Like Damian Williams but predominantly your offense goes through mahomes. That's what you WANNA do. So that's kind of what I look at is fundamentally and philosophically. Do you want to be the niners and the titans? Do you want to be your sates? Do you want to be a Green Bay or New England where it's really on the shoulders of your quarterback whatever you want to do and I think to me the most likely blueprint for success is throwing the football and using your running backs as wide receivers and teams. That are late in the first round. Here that are probably going to take more of that. Approach may not be interested in a first running back. So you know people keep saying like the Andrea Swift due to England this all the sudden pivot to being this run first offense because they don't have Tom Brady. I guess. But if you're going to do that and you want a bell. Cow Is the Andrea Swift. That guy is he physically able to do that for you. I don't know so I lean on the side of no first round running back but again running back can't be relatively safe. Pick in the sense that you could pass with them. You can run with them. You protect the quarterback with him. He's probably not going to hurt you as a GM in terms of your job security. So I don't know I I just think philosophically with where the NFL is. I think Kyle Shanahan is the exception. Let's keep in mind Kyle. Shanahan got his start as a pass oriented offense if play caller the running back thing maybe he just wanted to do something differently. Relative to everyone else had great success with that and he's a brilliant offense of mine so I don't think are running back is worth eight first round pick in this class in particular and I think the guy I like the most is Edwards layer because of the receiving ability. Early Second Round type of frame here like that The Patriots You look at you know the passing stats Brady. The yards per pass attempt and was declining and not necessarily was him getting old. Either it was basically didn't have much an offensive line of shoes a lot of injuries of across the line but the the attempts were a much shorter and much quicker. So you know time to release the ball a one hundred one point. Seven two is considered very very good. So I was saying what you were saying that if you do have a Clyde Edwards layer familiar issue type of player. He can line up in a slot as well as in the backfield. And and that's a pretty powerful weapon I would think for a team that has a suspect offensive line as the easiest way to S- to slow down to pass rushes. We all know you burn a couple of those plays too in the slot and also pass rush isn't nearly as fierce and I think that's really been a lot of Brady success over the years to is that he had the ability to recognize when and where the bliss was coming from and they would do those little dump offs that people who don't like the Patriots Learn to hate So I like your idea with that with With the running back then he catch the ball as as a possible late round first round. Pick it certainly in the second round. He might be one of the first ones to go. Now that you that up I would certainly take him over Swift and Dobbs in an offensive scheme. That's GONNA use the the running back as a moldable different types of weapons you. Could you could wind up a lineup that lsu kid on the on the wide receiver out by the perimeter. Your that was stretching defense that would automatically slow down a pass rush. You get a kid like that on a linebacker and it's a mismatch. I like that idea. We'll we'll see what happens tonight in the first round and we'll be back tomorrow. John and I will serve recap what we saw for the first round kind of talk about what this means for the subsequent rounds for these teams and also some dots that what it means for the twenty twenty season assuming we have one whenever that actually starts so. We'll do that on the Friday edition of Bang Book Radio here but John. Where can people find you at work people kind of banter with you here throughout the evenings facilities right now? I'm on twitter I'm not on twitter as often as I used to be but now that I think were maybe halfway through this pandemic GonNa make an effort to start providing some free daddy systems I've been doing one a week. So I'll pick up the pace on that one a little bit and just have general discussions and what everybody's doing I've also been trading the market which is definitely had my attention and that's satisfied my My need for action for those. That don't go. I had a Wall Street. Career was pretty long manage the thirty two traders in the crude oil paid in just two days ago we saw crude oil trade negative thirty four dollars a barrel which I never thought it a million years. I'd ever see that happen. But that's the type of world we live in so that means so much oil out there that those people that were holding those contracts had nowhere to store and had a sell it off at a loss just to get rid of it. we all know. Gas prices are going down right. Yep that's I mean. Obviously I wish everything was better with the economy. But it's not bad when you have a truck and gases dollar twenty five dollars thirty a gallon if my lives in Dallas and it's been about three weeks ago. He sent me a picture. A dollar thirty seven and he filled up for nineteen bucks and now it's lower. Yeah we'll see what keeps happening with that and maybe some point here we'll have you on after the draft you know talking about the market maybe some investment stuff. Maybe not a bad idea to do that here with something else for us to talk about because after the draft. You don't really have much to look forward to. I guess maybe back Gulf supposed to come back in June maybe NASCAR and late. May other than that. We don't really have a whole lot to look forward to select the fights of different things to talk about here on Bankable Gradient with John Ryan at John Ryan Sports and the number one on twitter. John Appreciate your time as always thank you so much. Enjoy the draft tonight. I'll talk to you tomorrow. You Bet thanks a lot. Take care there you go. There's John Ryan what's getting professionally. Capper at John Ryan Sports and the number one on twitter as we just said we'll be back on Friday taking a look at what happened in the first round grading out some of these products. And how they kinda played out here and then take a look at the leader rounds in the draft and also some thoughts on the upcoming NFL season based on what we saw in this first round. Do for me. Thank you so much for listening. Everybody and we'll talk to you again tomorrow.

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