10 Burst results for "Felipe Massa"
The Autosport Podcast
"felipe massa" Discussed on The Autosport Podcast
"Along to the latest episode in our top tens series and we are gathered here today to record a couple of these. At wonderful, wonderful. Silverstone circuit. Kev, chief editor, editor in chief, I should know that. What am I going to say? No, no, chief description. One of the first times. It's meaningless as we've discussed previously. Set us up for today. So let's get together a new show here. And I'm grateful that you did nice to come and hear some cars on the track. There's a track day going on. Did you make it up all right? So I know you've had a very interesting oh, I'm not in the interesting car story. I'm in the diesel BMW compact because that's that one works at the moment. The interesting car is being so interesting is stationary in my driveway. Again, I don't know if you brought that along. Last time I heard it was on bricks were stopping backwards. Correct. So I wanted to take it to the NEC. That didn't work. I wanted to take it to an event after that. That didn't work. And it would have been nice to bring it today. Yeah. It will make it to an event. I always want to set an event up so that I can bring it. But it keeps thwarting it at the moment. I won't tell you what it is until I've got it working in there because I want to embarrass it really. Wonderful. And to weigh in on this top tens edition. It's Jake boxhall like it's the first one you've done. It's certainly is of this series. Have you done the top tens before? Yeah, we did arrows in the last of course you did. He was the expert on that. That was the list. That was so I've got to cast aspersions on Kev's list and basically decide whether I agree or not kind of like a Roman Emperor a thumbs up thumbs down type deal. No, I like that. I forget I was remote. I was at home that day and you were all in the office, so that's why it's a blind spot. It's nice to all be together. It is. And we've even got colleagues working in the background. It's almost feels like it's probably 2020. I'll add some typing sound effects to the background and I don't want to just playing on his phone. Let's get into it. Style he says. Okay. Let's get into it. Let's move on. Our top tens, what's the topic you've got for us this week? So this is a top ten worst F one cars to win a world championship Grand Prix. So I think this is the first worst list we've done because I don't really like worse than this when it comes to actual drivers and people because that seems a bit harsh. But I thought worst cars, particularly as at least one of the designers mentioned in this list agrees that the car was terrible. So I thought we could get away with it with the car. So we're doing a ten worst cars to win a Grand Prix and the next episode will be the ten best cars that didn't manage to win a world championship race. So we've got the union Yang there. Brilliant. We'll kick us off. Yeah, so number ten is the Ferrari F 60. So if you remember the rules change for 2009 Ferrari McLaren had been the pace setters, the raised a couple of years. And the S 60 just didn't, I mean, both scenes actually produced pretty poor cars. But they did both manage to win a race during the season in the Ferrari makes it in there. If you remember, it Felipe Massa and Kimi raik struggled to even score points in the first part of the season. The weight distribution was a bit off because of the that was when we had the kinetic energy recovery system. As a bizarre combination of factors, obviously, after Massa had his unfortunate accident Hungary and was put out, Kimi stepped up, I think, drove better after that. Sparring was always good at. And so he got that one victory, having helped cause a safety car period. He then used the restart to curse his way passing Carlo fisichella in the force India to take the only win, the only win of that car in the season. So it wasn't really, it wasn't really a waste or it shouldn't really have been a race winning car. And they fell from winning the constructors championship the year before to finishing fourth. Not a terrible car, but just quite a flawed mediocre one for a team that probably should have done better. Not the most unreliable car either looking at its list of results. It didn't fall off the track every other week. No, well, we're into the we're into the ear in 21st century, aren't we where to smash the cars are reliable most of the time. I guess the hybrids of more recent years are perhaps throwing that a little bit, but generally the quality control in modern motor sport is pretty remarkable now. JBL, the Ferrari F 60 is, yeah, it was part of that season because as Kev alluded to, we had that Titanic spread between Ferrari and McLaren in 2008. And they were putting all of their resources into that and you kind of had the other teams and they weren't really at this point ever factoring in the 2008 race. And so they were putting all of their eggs into the 2009 basket and you had those. That big change in rule set, this was kind of an early forerunner, I guess to what we have now where everybody's going after overtaking and following. And so they changed the dimensions of the cars to try and improve that. We had these big snowplow front wings, very, very tall, skinny rear wings, to try and change the distribution of the dirty air, let's say. And ensure the cars could follow a little bit better. It didn't, I wouldn't say it massively worked so much because you have the adjustable front wing and you had rather than teams using it like what was intended to be basically a precursor to DRS in 2011. They were actually using the adjustable front wing flaps to trim off a little bit wing and play with that kind of balance. So it didn't really have the impact it wanted. But Ferrari was a bit behind the 8 ball. And I think if you look at the beginning of the season, the F 60 was probably better than McLaren's car, I think, on the balance, but McLaren developed much better through the season. Because I remember the British going for it here. Silverstone, Lewis Hamilton was absolutely nowhere all weekend a year after that stunning win in 2008. McLaren stepped it up and Ferrari probably did. I think by August, they kind of given up on the car and gone put it all for 2010. But that race between Brighton and physical are for the win at spa. That was interesting because there's Kev said earlier. Raikkonen used his curse. And I think that was the one time all year that kurz was actually useful. I was talking to a couple of years ago now. I was talking to Nick heidfeld about the BMW Kerr's unit. And he said, every time they put it on the car, it was worse. And they just kept it on purely as a marketing exercise. But yeah, that was the differentiator, the force India on that day. It was very, very good in the straight line, and it was great at spar Monza. Did it. It didn't have cursed. No. But on a different day, that was sliding doors moment.
The Autosport Podcast
"felipe massa" Discussed on The Autosport Podcast
"So number three is Robert Kubrick. 2006 to ten, 2019 and 2021. I mean, we are talking about the pre rally accident. Although his story after that has been inspiring in a different way. To get back in any code. Let alone a Formula One car. Absolutely driving still going and a fantastic fantastic inspiration, I think. But I'm thinking more about his pre rally accident F one career. So 99 starts one win one part one first step. Best result fourth in 2008. But one of the ways you're looking at this list is and I've said this before about when we're assessing the Gracie's drivers. Who are the benchmark drivers of their era? And you lay them out and as I said before, you know, Fangio moss Clark Stuart louder cross center Schumacher Hamilton, who's where we're at. It's probably going to be the next one. And then where drivers are in relation to that, how close they are. And for me, Kubrick is writing with the Hamilton Alonso. And he was that good that highly rated to the point where there was talk of him going to Ferrari. And he's the one driver outside of Hamilton. I would go, oh, people are in Alonso. I'm not sure. Was everyone else right with Alonzo. Kick their backside. I don't know that would have been the case. Some of these qualifying efforts for the Renault were incredible. And in 2008, I think he was the best drive. He topped the all sport 50. He didn't really make any significant errors. The reason he didn't win the chat was because BMW went, oh no, we're close enough. We're going to try and win it next year if the new rules are we got it wrong. And he was pretty annoyed about that. Rightly, so I think who backed him on his way up, was he a Ferrari driver in his junior categories? Was he associated with anybody? He was funding him. Was he BMW? Was he? I don't know. I can't remember who funded him on his way up. Damian, where would you have been around that early part of the noughties? Was it here? Was it motor sport magazine? Can you remember the there wasn't really a hype around, but there wasn't an excitement around him coming into Formula One. Do you remember that time? Yeah, I don't really remember being that aware of him on the way up. He did good things in Renault 3.5, didn't he? And he arrived, and when he arrives, everyone will say, oh, this guy's good. But there was no real sort of slow burn. I would think more than Lewis Hamilton, we kind of spotted very early, and he had to win those championships almost like to tick them off and he Julie did so. And so arrived with a lot of talk about him and Cuba didn't in that sense. But when he got there, he was one of those drivers absolutely suited Formula One and driving a form one car and it was clearly Hamilton always had massive respect for him Alonso and massive respect for him. All his peers, again, it's this thing about the peers response to him. I was going to say next very key, because when we did this list, the first time around, which was when 2000 14, that Kubernetes third was one of the things we've got the most stick for. So I then commissioned the GP editor of the time to go and speak to everyone that had worked with or raced against Kubrick and go right. Tell us how good was this guy and how mega was he? And they were basically came about yeah, he was as good as anyone, best of the best. Oh, there was Lewis and Fernanda. So I was like, thanks very much. When I saw the list and we were getting ready for this. That was the one that I raised my eye about the most of until then basically we have these sorts of discussions and go, oh actually, when you lay all facts and opinions on the table and you see it. Yeah, it's totally justified. I still don't know if I put him this high in this, but that's an objective matter of it. But certainly on those that era of when he was sort of so close to fighting sight on that. Yeah, he had the skill. He had the speed, probably didn't have ever had the machinery. At least at the same time and then when you're looking at when the injury comes in and yeah, there was talk of a pre contract potentially going to Ferrari before or just at the time of the running accident, you think. Yeah, again, again, much like everyone on this list of stars of the line ever so slightly. You never know. He's much more of a what might have been on this list, whereas the other guys on a lot of guys and this is at least had a chance. Yeah, yeah, I don't think you could ever say he had a genuine title fighting chance. No, and I've probably which is why I probably wouldn't put him quite so high as you. Yeah, I guess if I was being entirely consistent with my waiting criteria. Right. You'd probably have to drop him down to I don't know, maybe the 5th 6th sort of area. But I just have this and you can call this bias if you're like, I just have this absolute belief that he was, yeah, he was that good. I think he was probably better than Seb and he's a full-time world champion. And because of the way he used to go racing, he didn't seek out the cameras, and he didn't want to have the highest profile in the paddock. He was never the Kimi character. It was actually quite chatty. But he purposefully has his on screen persona. That became a joke towards the end of his career, but because he never was at the front of the queue to be on in the interviews and things like that. I think when he had those amazing performances, he took people by surprise or an average Formula One fan and be like, oh my goodness. This guy's amazing. Perhaps people will be surprised to have him in third place. Maybe he should be lower down. I don't know. He's quite an understated character. I mean, I don't really, this is perhaps where I'm a bit weird. I don't really care about all that stuff. I don't care whether you're a super I mean, obviously from a fan's point of view, you do, but for the assessment of a driver, I don't care whether you're out boozing up every night or you're in a library looking up stats from the year before or whatever you would do that lobby you do. But you know what you mean? It's what you deliver on the track, which is why the whole the Kimmy thing. If he'd been continuing to blow all his teammates away and when you work chances, he can sense to say what he likes, but it starts to not look so good if you're doing that and then three tenths off Felipe Massa in qualifying. That's kind of what I mean and I think that Kubrick was the other way around. He was not he did all he's talking on the track really. And then what did what did we find out about when you commissioned to be like, okay, did we get this wrong putting with the place? What are some of the things that came back in terms of how in testing or in race debriefs? What are some of the things that came out that the average Formula One fan wouldn't know? Yeah, the usual cliches really driven, relentless, knew what you wanted. I think there was a story and trying to bring him in for wets at Monaco and he went. I've never seen rainfall from a blue sky. I'm staying out. The short of calls that you need to have. And I know that that's become less and less of a thing over time because there's so much data on the pit wall, but actually as we've seen in 2022, with both Red Bull and Ferrari in the opposite directions, a bit of getting on the radio and going, these tires aren't for today chaps. Okay, fine. We're doing that. And listening to the driver, that's actually going around the track and feeling it in real time. And the Kubrick had to well, first of all, we had the ability to identify and secondly had the confidence to go now. This is the right call. Yeah, he was a leader, and I think it would have been only surely a matter of time before he would have been in the championship fight. Obviously that I'm going out on a bit of a limb there. So I take the point, but I'm kind of making a point with third. Make of that what you were. No, and because he had his accident in a different series as well. I think that earns him points as a driver as a racing driver who isn't,
The Autosport Podcast
"felipe massa" Discussed on The Autosport Podcast
"Was a, as you say, 59, he could so easily have been world champion that year. And it was only, I think he was his only his sense of perspective. That stopped him becoming world champion. You know, the fact that he wanted to survive. You know, that's as simple as that without that example of Sebring, the car was pretty much undamaged and he could have carried on, but he had vowed to himself. That he wouldn't take any risks and who can blame him. Yeah, it's interesting you sort of think that phrase on his day because you could probably apply that to a lot of the list and that's potentially why they're here. It's not on his day on their bad days, too, that they, that's why we become champion. But very much, I think he's almost at the top of that on his day best driverless, 'cause yeah, the race is when he was on his down on the master incredible. And like you say, yeah, picking his moments being in an era of the mortality rate and everything that was sort of the danger involved. Yeah, picking his moments and not going and going, and that probably will ultimately cost you taking the risk, taking the reward of a world championship. It's hard to over 70 plus years. It's hard to compare different eras sometimes, but Hayden, before we came into record when these two enjoy their pub lunch, funnily enough. That's one of the things where Kev, because you've read so extensively on historic. Parts of Grand Prix racing. It's really hard to argue with the older stuff. It's very hard to argue with your call on this one, like, are they the wrong way around? Well, you just got that depth of knowledge. This is your passion. What you like to do. I think I've said before, I take the lists very seriously when I'm putting together, but then hopefully it's more fun when we actually discuss it, but that's also why we get people like the marshal or Damien Smith because they've got, you know, they've got that knowledge as well. I think we can mention that dame I was Ed for motor sport magazine for a decade. So I'd suggest that I'm not the only one with a lot of a lot of knowledge in the room. But yeah, I mean, just on the Gonzales Brooks point as well, I think they were both mega number twos, Gonzales to Alberto escar in Brooks to Sterling mos but I would say when they then had their time as lead driver, if you like, I think Brooks was more convincing. He really led the Ferrari line. Gonzalez, again, has Hayden said he had his moments, but in 1954 he finished a long way behind fans during the points. It wasn't really a championship fight, Fangio had it done. Now, Gonzalez did have fairly rubbish Ferraris to be fair, Brooks probably had a better car. But I think Brooks edges ahead. The moss has always, he was always very adamant that Tony was the guy that he respected the most alongside Fangio. And moss wasn't one to blow smoke, was he would say he would call it as it was that he had immense respect for him racing alongside him. And the interesting thing, I was very lucky to have met Tony a number of times. And he was the gentleman that you always put forward to be. He was a lovely man. But he knew how good he was. And there was a certain race and dryer arrogance underneath that gentleman front. He knew that he was one of the best of the era. The other thing worth matching actually on the moss point is that in those days moss had to call on engine and chassis. So Brooks was going well, wherever they go, I want, I want Tony's engine in my chassis. And Tony would never complain about that. No, because he'd signed up as a number two. But actually, when you look at how close they were on pace on some occasions and you think, well that's with Sterling getting everything he wanted, and Brooks just going, well, our mate. He said that he, I think he actually said one, so there was no point in me working that whole and getting the car set up and whatever because there's a good chance that it'd be nixed anyway. So I just had to make do with whatever I had, so that puts his achievements into even more perspective, I think. That's interesting. And then I was going to ask about when you've had the chance to meet these drivers because some of you can and some you either never met or you couldn't met because it was dangerous era of Formula One. So then you are left to go back to the history books to your personal reading to your personal knowledge to try and fit these drivers into the more contemporary lists as well. But I guess when you've had a chance to, like you say with Tony, have some sit downs. It makes it a little bit easier because you can pick, you can ask them questions and things. Yeah, exactly. He was also very engaged in the modern sport. He was really interested to know what was going on. In the current affairs and who was doing what Hamilton or Alonso, whoever it was at the time who was the story, he was a real enthusiast, and that never left him. But there was always a sense that he knew he knew deep down. How good he was and how capable he was. But he had this attitude. It was also religious. And that was part of it about he believed life was sacred. And therefore, his life he couldn't just toss it away. And he had a family to think about, and he was, you know, he was a well rounded man. And he was I was a pleasure to meet him. It's a difficult position to be in in 1919 50s race into our, isn't it? Yeah. Nowadays, perhaps not so much, but in the 50s, yeah, there was a reasonable chance you'd be. I think all drivers of that ear drive probably with most of them, the ones that hang around, drove with the margin. I think that explains the fan Joe. I've never drove like I did in 57 German Grand Prix I never will again because that was the I am going to hang it out in the way they always do now. And I'm not saying that one was better than the other. It's just different. It's a different world. But I think comparatively, you can compare them in terms of that year, Tony could should have been world champion, and it didn't work out for these reasons. And you can compare that to Felipe Massa, for example, in terms of it was out of his hands. He had the machinery. Whatever reason didn't happen. Let's move on. Who's next? So number 6 is Jacky ickx. Yes. 96 6 79, 116 starts 8 wins 13 poles.
The Autosport Podcast
"felipe massa" Discussed on The Autosport Podcast
"In our third series of our top ten lists these special podcasts we're making for our third series, which let's be Frank is a labor of love for our chief editor, Kevin Turner, our first guest back on the podcast. Welcome. Welcome, welcome. Thanks very much. Yeah, looking forward to this. What's the topic this week? This week, it is the top ten F one drivers not to win the world championship. Not to win a world champion. Some good drivers to get through. So I think there have been 34 world champions. But I wouldn't say that lay the top 34 greatest F one drivers. So I think there's some overlap between the back end of that list and the top end of this list. Let's get the opinion of our other two guests. Welcome back to the podcast. Motor sport journalist Damien Smith, good to have you back. Thank you nice to be back. Thank you. You two have just had a lovely pub lunch. Out of ten, how would you rate that one? I would say an 8 or 9, I think. This guy's going to go for 8. That's a high rating. With another former colleague who you like collecting former colleagues. I'm just hoping to hang around for long enough so that I guess everyone becomes a former colleague and I'm still here in a little shed. I'm not envious at all after my Tesco meal deal. Although I forgot my club card, so I paid full price for it. Well, the extra 50 P. Somebody say something witty now. And our third guest on the podcast and I also support a dot com's editor, Hayden Cobb. Welcome to Kev's top ten podcast. This is the first one you've done or not. Thank you. Yeah, that's right. My debut. Expectations. The previous two series have never dragged you in. No, unfortunately not, but there you go, so I hoped I confess, do you want to know about my lunch or is it going to do good? I know I went quite Polish when it too. Oh, come on. It was very nice. What's wrong with you, people? The most posh one, then. One of the most posh. We had sort of a burger and chips. Yeah, but three pound 90, not three pound 40. Because I left McKee ring in the car, so I was going to go back and get it for that 50 P so anything. But it's ten minutes away. This right, I'm going to go back to the top now. Let's see what my lunch is a care bought it. So did he? Yeah, he did. He's a generous man. In fact, he invited you in on the premise of having lunch, and then we roped you into podcasts. That may have been the case. That's exactly what happened. Good payment scheme, I think. It is good. Right, let's get into our top ten. F one drivers never to win a world championship. Kev kick us off. Who's at ten? What are the stats? So number ten Felipe Massa, 2002 and 2004 to 17 269 starts 11 win 16 poles. Best results second in 2008, of course. So bear with me, I know that Massa obviously hung around a bit too long. He got absolutely pasted by all of his teammates really after he had the unfortunate incident at Hungary. But actually, if you look at what he did, I'd say 2007 to that first part of 2009 really Megan, in particular, 2008. He came within what, ten, 15 seconds of being world champion. He's probably closer to winning the world championship than anyone else on this list because of that. And remember he wasn't very good in the wet and that was a wet dies in front of his home crowd, massive pressure of the championship, and he did, I think it was absolutely fantastic performance. Surely the race of his life and it was just what was going on behind the end meant they lost the championship by a point and he really was stunning that season. He beat Raikkonen 6 two on win 6 two on poles. His teammate world champion teammate. And let's not forget there were points that he lost through no thought of his own obviously was mega in Hungary, had the engine blow up. The lost in that one, there's the whole other podcast, Singapore, 2008, which, you know, he was, he was on course for a good result there. So as much as obviously history goes well, of course there's Hamilton, you know, another world championship, but actually that particular year, masa was fantastic, and I think that's what edges him onto this for me. He's a good example of a very respectable, decent Grand Prix driver who had one real shot at the world title and actually stepped up and actually took his opportunity. He wasn't his fault that he didn't work out, as you say. So I've got a lot of respect for him. For that. But yeah, he's just, he would have been odd to think of him as a world champion now. I don't know how would you be perceived as a world champion, had it gone his way that day? Well, you described as a sliding doors moment on the previous podcast because who knows how that changes the trajectory of a career that's true when you become world champion and you know you get that extra aura around you. Yeah, and I think for our younger listeners to this include myself in that is all right. Who's the youngest person in the room? No, I only mentioned that because when we get into the rest of this list, this is probably the most recent one. And even then I think for some people's memories, as you've just alluded to there, the sort of second half of mass's career is probably what maybe what people will remember.
The Autosport Podcast
"felipe massa" Discussed on The Autosport Podcast
"How did you find that? Yeah, especially with thank you very much for taking me down on that. It was quite something I know. It's cliche, but it was palpable. There was a sense that it wasn't there. There was a chair when the Ferraris came. I think something that's appreciated is obviously Formula One can be accused of being a bit sterile, and that plus the championship I've been covering and doing grids on for the last 18 months is formula E so I forgot basically there's a lot of noise and it smells it smells like I told you this the other day. I was like, it's a smell. I just can't describe it. It's kind of like sweaty and oily and fueling and it's really, really weird, but you get it. Yeah, I know environmentally conscious times, but it sticks a fuel and we've got massive pirellis, so it stinks up a bit of burning rubber and it's grayer or adds to it. So yeah, it was a really, really special experience. And I think I'll have to quit the job when one day, if I'm not, if I'm not super excited by God, there's John a lady. There's Jacques Villeneuve talking to Felipe Massa. Oh, is that interesting Fittipaldi if that ever wears off or go, but you know, to see all those guys on the grid was pretty mega. And you get to do it all again tomorrow, Matt. Thank you very much for joining me on the podcast. As promised, thought I will finish with the anecdote about your wonderful rally scores last night. We're about to leave the car park. Now the overnight rain at imola going into essay obviously affected the on track running, particularly in FP one. But it also meant the car park, which is literally a field. It became a bit of a bit slushy very muddy and a lot of people had a lot of trouble getting out last night, tractors were needed to pull people out, including one of our colleagues. One of our colleagues got stuck. Another one of our colleagues saw him stuck, decided to slow his car down and laugh, and he himself got stuck. That was a bit of shadow and Freud are there. Q being ever the enthusiastic driver. I think that's a good apply way to put it. Cars have a rev limit, so you should use all the revs within that limit. And you absolutely did that and you went, I'm going for it. Absolutely gunned it. Colin McRae would have been very, very proud, I'm sure, ran his way right through the mud. Got out to applause from a group of Red Bull personnel, which was very, very nice to see, and yeah, then we got our way back to Bologna, which is what we are about to go and do now. I'm sure there's some pizza waiting for us. Thank you very much for listening. Obviously, we'll be back tomorrow with the Sunday Night full race review of the Emilia romagna Grand Prix and we will see you then..
Box of Neutrals
"felipe massa" Discussed on Box of Neutrals
"The links there and join the community went off as you could imagine the Australian Grand Prix. People were meeting up, which is good to say. Oh, that's good. The community. Yes. It's the right place to do it. I didn't even factor that into my own planning. If anyone stared at me, I just briskly walked past, but oh, that's nice that that happened. And it was nice that the annual Grand Prix tradition of let's check a AFL goons on a football player continued. Valtteri bought us in a Richmond top was, oh, I was a bit I hadn't slept well in the later to the grand prayer I'll be honest, then that just confused me. But I enjoyed it, to be honest. And you thought Melbourne wasn't back before that. Now, this is real. This is Melvin now. Footballers. Formula One drivers playing football for no apparent reason is Melbourne absolutely. I'm impressed that he played because the last time he did it when he was a driver with I want to say north Melbourne. He heard his back and withdrew from the Australian Grand Prix. Remember that year? 20 what year was Albert in court? It was that year. The same year he did a Vanguard took several of the Supreme Court. I was 1514. One of these. And he heard he's back. Remember, I'm pretty sure it was the same year. He meant Felipe Massa would try to do species. We are to remember that story. Yeah, and he was true and it would have been Pascal villain. Antonio, do you have an answer, maybe? That's the other thing. That's too long ago. He did. That was definitely. I was in the basics here. That's strange. But he got over his fees and football? Yes. Enough that he donned the full singlet as people FSA's clause. And a lot to have to wait with. Yes. On this back to the subject at hand and yes, people were enjoying seeing the F one football crossover because there is a difference between the two. I did enjoy the fact that RPM RPM theme song. Remember that RPM thing? Yeah, yeah, yeah. He got the composed by Liz gock. What? Yes. That's a very good question. Do you know what happened? So remember our good friend standing down. Yes. Because he has nothing else going on in his life. He's a man of leisure. And one evening we decided we're going to crack the code. We were like, we're going to find out. We need to get a copy of the song to the point where he set up his own Twitter account. And what is it at Bill Woods? What's the name of the do you know who composed the RPM fave song and to Bill Woods credit? He replied, very promptly. And said, I don't have a copy of it however I know that Les gock composers. Wow. And that's all I can help you with. And then Dan tried to sort of call channel ten reception and they hung up on him. That's fair. Well, what a beautiful round circled story this is because that's been on heavier rotation. As is? Yes, in the Discord channel, absolutely. Do you remember how long we spent trying to find the Franco console theme? Yes. Equivalent of it. Yes, we found something very hard. It takes a long time, but these are the things that bind us things. So it's important. It was a legal end that got ram. Someone mentioned, if only they knew that you could just very bad behavior. That wouldn't be a box of news. That's not a problem. I read the reserve drives this way. It's very nice boys. Yes. I want to start a feud. I wish they'd tell their listeners to stop ramming little hands. Yes. Come on. Come on, guys. Lift. Ted Kravitz and Brad Johnson separated at birth. That is a good one. There's a very good photo doing that. Right, Johnson. Child? My little daughter, I can't remember which. Garlic Carter. Really? Yes. That's interesting. It's in the biz. So you're saying theoretically, Ted Kravitz could report on Brad Johnson's saddle. One day, one day, day to Drake. And finally, I couldn't help but notice the people, of course, talking about how they're watching the race. Matt walker posted a photo saying that it was encouragement for him to start moving stuff around his house. Great photo he's posted of his television extremely precariously placed on the edge of his cabinet. It's not otherwise interesting content. Yes. But I found it extremely engaging because it made me sweat. TV looked like it was going to fall over. So I encourage you to all go and check out the Discord channel. Plenty of stuff going on there. They were meet ups. They may well, in fact, be more made ups. And if nothing else, you can go and listen to the classic piece of music, the RPM theme song. Box of naturals on all the usuals, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, parlor, wiki feet everywhere that you can find good podcasts, social media pages, and listen wherever you find good podcasts. Spotify. A car radio. Apple music, I think it is now. Maybe it's Apple podcasts, it's a separate app that broken out from iTunes. That was the Australian Grand Prix review. It's sad to say that, in fact, isn't it? Oh, it's quite classy. If I wanted to. It finally got done. Sense of closure. With that stupid 2020 sort of malarkey. No longer is it so fast? Let's have zoom drinks anymore. This was just like, let's ram. Thousands of people. Into the track invasion after the after the Grand Prix. So it was nice that that chapter would close, and it was nice that I think it was almost the case of it was kind of good. The Australian Grand Prix to sort of be on the bench for a couple of years because I think it made local city realize how importance it is. And it was good to say, sorry, I think it was very much running price. And hopefully, we only have to wait another 360 odd days until the next one. Yes, hopefully that is all of these, maybe a little bit less, you know, it's very straight out of the seat. Let's bring back traditions absolutely what a great weekend it was. If you want to subscribe to the show, you can find it in all good podcasting apps, maybe even some new bad ones I don't know. I've got some really high end and as well. You can also go to box YouTube dot com, find all the podcasts there and subscribe links, Discord links, all that kind of stuff. If your app lets you leave a rating in a review, why don't you give it a go, you might feel good about it, I think. Good thing to do. Spread the love around. Don't be subscribed to the show. You know, in fiscal economic sense. Election is coming up. We should be talking about the economy, and this is one where you can continue by subscribers and approximations for the low low fee of $4, 99 a month. It's really $5, isn't it? Until next week, when we preview the Emilia romagna made in Italy Pirelli Ferrari Italia Grand Prix. I've been Aston Martin still have no points. This is big box of.
The Autosport Podcast
"felipe massa" Discussed on The Autosport Podcast
"More famous for being quicker and better at McLaren, but not winning the title, taking the title with Ferrari and then it all sorts of goes downhill from there really, doesn't it? Yeah, regular readers and listeners might be surprised that Kevin Terra sourced lists includes Kimi Räikkönen it because I do think he spent too long at Ferrari not delivering what he was fundamentally capable of. The reason he's in the race partly as he did in that world championship is not many people that win their first Grand Prix that they start for Ferrari. He took the championship in a year where he was right up against Lewis Hamilton Fernando Alonso and yes, of course McLaren mismanaged that. But I quite like the fact that the least political driver in the whole season was the guy that ended up with the title that was quite that's quite cool. He did get the job done. And also, although Felipe Massa got on top of him that points during 2008 and then early 2009, it's interesting how Kimmy steps up after masses accident at Hungary. And string the load of good results together, including a slightly fortuitous well taken victory at the Belgian Grand Prix. But I guess the other reasons he's in this one is longevity. A 151 starts with Ferraris, second most on this list. And I think a long-term contribution to a team has to be taken into account. He was world champion and I think he was widely loved by lots of fans. So the Ferrari fever rating, if you want. Yes, I think he should have delivered more Ferrari, but I thought he as a world champion and long-term contributor to the team. I thought he had to be on there. Just before we come to Matt, could you not say with the long-term Ness of raika being at Ferrari? He's still their most recent world champion, so does he not take some hits for the fact that he was there for most of the majority of the years that have passed since. And yet Ferrari is still in the malaise. So why does that not affect his ranking? Well, I think it depends on why Ferrari two hasn't won the championships. And we'll get perhaps onto this with some of the candidates later on this or other candidates that didn't make it in being interested to see which name Matt's going to throw us in a minute. I don't think that you would necessarily blame Kimi for why they haven't won it. I don't think you wouldn't say that you look at the last ten 15 years for the reason that they didn't win the world champions because they had Kimi Räikkönen. I think that would be that would be pretty harsh. In this instance, I wouldn't hold that. I wouldn't hold that against it, but in other circumstances it might be might be relevant. Disagree with two points to that one is I was doing some research for a PC recently commissioned me on Kevin and although it's not fair to say their last 14 years without a title is solely right. There was a lot of sort of reporting around the time of 2009 that his laissez-faire attitude to going racing was quite infectious and that became because at that point he was still effectively the lead driver when masa masa was obviously injured and arguably not strong when he came in and was blown away by a Lonzo but there was a certain maybe mentality although that 2090s and obviously fraud just didn't bring anything to the table without a double diffusion and can rectify it. And also I'd say the longevity point is fair, lots of races and credit to it. But in his second stint alongside Vettel, it was politically advantageous to keep him on as opposed to being particularly well, it was meritocratic, but I think his the lack of infighting between Vettel and Raikkonen helped Raikkonen retain that seat probably a year longer than he should have done. And the fact that he just in a car that was capable of winning a championship. He came nowhere near to the other contenders. I don't think. The other point I'd add on about him being second fiddle and getting decent results so long since the time is that Barrichello, who is a fair comparison, I think, through the Alonso and then latterly levitt, is nowhere near either of our top tens as far as I'm concerned. I think as we said, Raikkonen was better at McLaren. Obviously, champion in 2007. Well, outperformed by Massa in 2008. So I think to him 8th place of both based large off of 18 months of work over a Ferrari career that spanned 8 seasons all told. I think there's a lot of waiting going to a lot of his heavy lifting is going there. And then everything else after that is probably probably doing a bit of damage. I would agree with pretty much all of that. But my question to you then would be who your candidates that you would slot in instead. One of them world champion Phil hill, 1961, just because okay, the Ferrari shark night is a one 5 6 was clearly the best car that season at the rule change. But it was just sort of his effectiveness. So I think the year he took the title of 61 and got two wins and four podiums from 7 Grand Prix, he started of the 8 that season and that strike rate is pretty devastating. The other one I keep coming back to is Jackie X like a two time world champion that never was a 68 where him and probably anyone had a good run at it, but 6 wins from 55 Grand Prix starts at 1111 pole positions. He's a name that I keep coming back to on that list. If this was a top ten Ferrari racing driver's list, feel he would be on it because it is Le Mans successes in these sports cars successes. So that was something that I looked at. But for me, he's one of the weakest F one world champs. And obviously that with a lot of respect because it's what 34 names, I think now, so you're still talking about the cream of the crop, but I don't think that they're rarely in F one history as they have been such a chasm between the best driver and the rest as there was in 1961 with Sterling moss and the rest. I think Wolfgang von trips was pretty much on course to win that world title until admittedly his own mistake at Monza, unfortunately he was killed as were some spectators after clash of Jim Clark. It's such a dominant car. And that was one of Cole's feels wins. One of these two wins. His time at Ferrari three wins, one of them at 1960 Italian Grand Prix when the British team's boycotted. It was just basically a Ferrari demonstration race, two wins in 61, one of which was after his main opposition were taken out an accident. For me, and of course he was there in 62 when Ferrari were winter. It all went very badly. I mean, that's a real low point in Ferrari history..
Box of Neutrals
"felipe massa" Discussed on Box of Neutrals
"We'll thank you. Mark. Who'd have thought the Abu Dhabi Grand Prix might be interesting and worthwhile talking about? That is the most impressive thing in 2021. The way kids started so innocently went from changes here. Here's a nice graph to illustrate the radius corners, which was great because I've always connoisseur of the F one 20 21 franchise. Never enjoyed the Mickey Mouse chicanes of Abu Dhabi. It was almost I would design for a different time when the cars were a lot more quad gargantuan. In size and proportions, the truck changes were pretty good. I mean, it wasn't, didn't generate, I guess this thrilling ricing that we expected. No, the result we got was different. Well, yes. That was a different very different rate. Especially if you've been I feel like you used to ride it was again the big winner of the everyday world for China because fourth in I mean he's had such a mixed bag of season. I think for the next, let's start with the very first rise for you. Yeah, so some people benefited I think from the changes. Yes, Christian Horner accused Karen chandrak of making it a Mercedes track, which is actually doing it for Yuki. How did we know? That's the controversy. It's under the radar. I wouldn't be surprised if someone's protesting that result after these rights. Exactly. Very strong result from Mickey sonoda. And good on it. You know what bloody good on it, if he's going to stick around for at least another year in Alfa tauri deserves the fourth place. Very nearly a party of I know, look, we will talk about other things, but he was only like, I wish I had the results in front of me. Like, less than a second away from a podium. We're going to have the cenote. And it is like being at a party and something bad is like someone is vomited all over the wall or something. And I'm describing what happened to this. No, no, that didn't happen. But if a college stand there and go. Yeah, I'm happy with it. Yeah, okay, but I'm not the story you want to talk to. Talk about today. Even worse, I think judging by the transcript I was not in the press conference, but that it was just max and science. I don't think Louis was in there. I don't think he made it there. Or he was just asked to know questions for some reason, but Carlos was in the post race. Yeah, yeah, okay. So I think he was going on. Yeah, I think he had reasons to be upset. But I like that he had to turn up and let people didn't ask him questions with max just there and he, you know. Very great first year for everybody by the way. I think that's the other underrated story. Well, I mean, he finished ahead of Charles the click on points. Shouldn't be on the list? He did. He finished fourth in the standings. I think he's good like that, Carlos. It's very steady to the hand. He'd fit. This Ferrari, again, in various wash ups of tame reviews, which will save a later on in future editions. Yeah, very strange for Ferrari. It wasn't as a title connection that I had last year. I don't know, it's kind of like, I don't know what they're doing. The 2022 car better be bloody good because it's been a strange thing. You said that supper was so far ahead of lobster all in the SMS and that one caught me. I wouldn't pick that, but there we go. Well, good for Carlos in that case. So that's your PD. You flew onto the right off. Yeah, exactly. Well, not on this show. The talks all the big issues give us a call. What else is going to have the whole types of what happens? Let's talk about other things. We'll do the cool take things. I also have to do this right. I don't know. I'm sure Nick was the same thing. He decides to look for staff at world champion first time, very good for him. And not as good for the result obviously. Unfortunate result of Lewis. He did not win. It was very close. He dominated the race. I would say, in fact, he was the world champion for 56. You have people say that Felipe Massa was to world champion for one lap or half a life whatever. Lewis Hamilton was a world champion with 57 and 58 laps. And then was it not after that for the candidate? In fact, yes, although the live ladder for half a lap, the womb showed that he was ahead and all of a sudden he said something racist and the audience turned out he didn't do that. But you understand off of him. He said something about taxes. He's going to raise taxes to pay for a bridge and then all of a sudden everyone voted for Max Verstappen. He was the winner of the championship. That's how I assume things working for me to one. And it was, I mean, it was in many respects the ending that the season, not necessarily, but certainly warranted, which is a scene in the deserves. So there's no point saying a second word. But after the year we had, they couldn't be as straightforward ending this season. No, it was. We protested by saying who knows what's going to happen by the time we next catch up and record?.
The Autosport Podcast
"felipe massa" Discussed on The Autosport Podcast
"Was he left no room basically on the left hand side, so Lewis couldn't have gone up the inside to Lewis had to go to the outside. And Verstappen, yeah, he just seemed pretty much centered and basically missed the corner. And he meant that both him and Hamilton went off across the runoff area and then rejoined the track at turn two, but ultimately that was Verstappen, leaving the track and gaining a lasting advantage, which is what the stewards would ultimately paying him for. And yeah, there was the back and forth on the radio about giving back the position to Hamilton, which then led to the incident that we're going to come on to another in a little bit. And it was a very aggressive movers. Again, we've come to kind of expect. But it was a bit like total wolf after the race had the instant so they were a bit like Brazil reloaded. And it was very similar. Yeah, when they were going into turn four and Hamilton was the outside and Verstappen basically kept on going and didn't make the corner. Yeah, it's a very, very similar situation. So that was ultimately what landed SAP in the penalty because he did gain a lasting advantage Ginny didn't give the position back in the end because of what happened with the incident that would follow. Yes, Hayden, do you want to take us through the incident that follows? I can try. In my understanding of it, we have a bit of a not bartering, but the talk of giving the place back between if I read bull. Another deal is that. Potentially, deal or no deal. That's what staff is being told, which again is it a bit more of a traditional one in terms of to avoid a penalty. Please hand the position back. That's been seen before. Here we go, which obviously came in at the start of the season Bahrain. When he gave the position back very friendly, as this was all going on around the lap, obviously the communication channels from FAA to Mercedes to tell them that that was going to happen. There's obviously a few link of chains that it needs to go through Ron Meadows and then to peak runnington Hamilton's race engineer and then to hammers himself. And by the sounds of it, the communication lines weren't quick enough, which you can't really blame Mercedes or anyone in that situation, but it didn't quite get there in terms of knowing exactly what was going to be happening and perhaps when. And then there's obviously clearly miscommunication that's put them together there. And we get to a bit of a sticky situation. Rather than it seemed very panicked on the phone in the aftermath after Lewis Hamilton, shunted into the back of Max Verstappen. But Luke, what did you, what did you make? Because a lot of people on Twitter that are kind of in the max wasn't at fault camp for this scenario in particular, said, well, max left room, he slowed down. Why on earth didn't Hamilton go around him? I mean, why wouldn't Hamilton go around in regardless of whether he knew if that max was giving the position back to him or not? Because I mean, a gap opened up. Why didn't Hamilton go for the gap? He said in this year's briefing afterwards, when he met with them, that he wasn't aware he hadn't been informed that the saddle would be giving the place back. So yeah, and Verstappen kind of, it was a pinch point on the track in all fairness. It wasn't the widest point of the circuit, which would have been a little bit further down straight. It was, yeah, it was a very narrow point for stop and did move around a little bit as well. The down she is still the way from 8th gets third gear. So it's quite a long way. And it was already part of this sort of cat and mouse game to try and get DRS to ensure that basically if he gave Hamilton the position back, he did it in a way so that Hamilton would be ahead of him as they hit the DRS detection point. Verstappen would then have DRS and that would allow him to basically re overtake in theory. Hamilton when they go back onto the main straight. So it was that's what it was really down to. It was this cat and mouse game of Verstappen was told strategically was the way that the series used by Red Bull in how he gave back that place to Hamilton. But ultimately, yeah, that meant it sort of happened at a very, very narrow point on the circuit. And led to that collision that, yeah, Hamilton, his front wing was left damage. Red Bull claimed afterwards that Verstappen picked up, I think helmet Marco told one of our colleagues that there were cuts on his tires that mean he couldn't push towards the end as they would have liked because of that. So it was yeah, I get what people are saying like, okay, well if there's just go for it. But it wasn't exactly the widest point, let's face it. It was a bit of a pinch point on that straight because max wants to get it done early enough so he could get DRS when they went back onto it. And they're in sort of lies, I guess that the guilt in terms of telling Verstappen to do it strategically now if this was a penalty scenario strategy doesn't come into it. You serve the penalty irrespective of your strategy. Again, letting them sort themselves out, although good in theory creates these very unusual situations of like you say, trying to basically get DRS on each other, doing it at a point at the track that is narrow, so therefore you can't get a good run. All these different factors that add into it, but for you but I would say that the FIA and race control need to be stronger on and say, no, this has to happen in this way. You can't just sort of make it up as you go along. And this is where it's a lot of different factors that end up making these situations, but that's how this has happened, ultimately, post race. They've happened or just happened to be at fault and giving him the post race ten second time penalty, which in retrospect obviously doesn't change anything. He still finishes second in the race. The seriousness of what happened was fairly clear. So again, I think that was the probably the right call. I don't know if any of you agree on that post race penalty. He was definitely a fault though, yeah, and the data shows that the Stuart said that there was a 2.4 G deceleration by Verstappen on the brakes and as I mentioned, you see him downshift all the way from 8 to third gear. And yeah, I get yeah, he was trying to be strategic, fine, but it could have been done a lock cleaner and a much different and safer part of the circuit. So yeah, I thought the penalty I think it was right that he got a penalty. I think the steroids basically deemed it. I think they just went by the rulebook and said, okay, we normally dish out for causing a collision and kind of stuck to that. I think maybe with the wider context of, yeah, the fact that he didn't actually lose any places or anything. It's kind of a bit of an immaterial penalty, isn't it? But they ultimately stick to the rule book and they can't sort of look at it as well. It's not going to cost him in place. So does it need to be wound up or wound down in terms of how much of penalties given? I thought it was quite cheeky what Verstappen was trying to do and Ricardo after the race like we said, did you see it? And he was like, I saw a bit of it, but I don't really get what happened. And we explained it and he was like, yeah, that's a little bit cheeky. To try and do that to try and get DRS back. But I mean, how do you make a really good point? There's nothing in the rule book saying you can't do that. He's got to give back the place, but yeah, think of Louis Samson and Felipe Massa, spar in 2008, Hamilton gave the place back. He thought, so that was fine. And then he went to, sorry, with Kimi raik and then went to re overtake him at two corners later, basically. So yeah, there's a bit of a gray area there, I think. Urban, I think it was absolutely a penalty for Verstappen. I think it was, yeah, he could have done that in a much cleaner way. But I do understand that they were trying to be strategic in terms of when they gave that place back. Are we going to call it strategic or are we going to call it game playing? Because I found there was a lot of game playing going on..
Box of Neutrals
"felipe massa" Discussed on Box of Neutrals
"If we like, if we keep likening it to Brazil 2000 a day now I don't know if I missed that. Someone did the maths where if the again and it's always it's context is always different when you change the point system. But if it was the current point system including the fastest lap award. The Felipe Massa would have won anyway, but I certainly point. Yeah, regardless of. Is that gone? Is that God going slowly? It is. Say, regardless of that, we would have been robbed of that moment. It just would have been our Hamilton passing block, but not enough. Go to pass whoever was in front of you. To do that, sorry. Isn't that interesting? Yeah. It was, it's a slotting duals moment, but, you know, this is the point system that we've got including the sprint race format. So yeah, well, let's just yeah. I'm still holding at hope that this will be this will be tight one, and certainly Lois winning this rice. It's just it's not over. It's by any stretch of the imagination. I mean, the gap is closing up in this desperately running out of that well Mercedes running out of laps, but they're not out of the rice entirely either. So you know what? The championship is heating up so much. I may even watch the Abu Dhabi Grand Prix live on the 5 minute reply. I would hope so if it's the title to cider, it's only midnight. Of course I wouldn't be mad. You know, I'm quite happy to, while the season is, you know, going through going through the motions of happy to sit out for a little bit longer, but let me know when it gets good, you know, I'll treat it. Yeah, yes, well, you know, you probably. I mean, I think catal is probably going to be no good, but I will say I think what's also interesting here is that it was the way Mercedes won this rights. They were very fast. Almost like Mercedes of old, almost. They weren't quite that fast. But this season's changed a lot, right? We turned up to tracks. We kind of always predict who's going to win there in a couple where we have been able to, but for the most part, it's been very difficult to pick. And we came to Brazil and it was maybe soft in the Red Bull camp, maybe 50 50. But that was just so much faster than Red Bull, which is probably why Christian Horner keeps accusing them of cheating, but they were so much faster. That it sort of has thrown a lot of the predictions out the window for the rest of the season like already people were saying Saudi Arabia is probably Mercedes Benz because it's all power and they're all straight line speed. Abu Dhabi's faster now as a track because of the changes, so it's probably a little bit more in the Mercedes direction. You would think Qatar is probably going to be Red Bull, but maybe now, but this is the thing. If we base it on Brazil, Mercedes you would almost expect to just walk home now. Well, to be honest, I've got my money still on Yamaha to win at the Qatar. Very good. Cross border reference. How many people watch for the GP of this podcast? I don't know. Yeah, the box of two stroke Discord is going off. His three people in there. Yes, it's popping off absolutely popping up. So I think that's the beauty of this season. We can't predict what's gonna happen and the ugliness of the season is that we have to wait only 5 more days to find out who's gonna win the category of too many races. Please remove at least three. I'm not a crackpot. I can only train. We can only absolutely dream of that. They're only controversial part of this race other than all the penalties and the cheating accusations that they're actually a lot of controversial parts of this race. But what are the controversial parts of this race was Max Verstappen's defending of Lewis Hamilton? Now I propose to you, rob. Have you seen this defensive maneuver? No. I haven't, but well, I propose to you we have a live viewing now. You can scroll to the highlight. Okay, so I want to know your gut opinion. So on the old YouTube. Oh, I know that Verstappen and Hamilton got toe to toe again. Oh yeah, that'll probably be it. Wow, they've even pulled out a single yes. Go on. Well, it's well it's illegal to play these highlights. So I'll play them, but I trust that you will appropriately substitute I don't know, the mother and son theme song underneath, which will be hilarious given my reactions for.