2 Burst results for "Federal Vision Church"
"federal vision church" Discussed on Reformgelical
"Star Trek but I mean it's it's like a it's like it's like the two worst teams in the league. Blaney judge who cares it. Everybody loses really just is this tickets gets cheap enough to go watch it. Basically I tagged you in an article on twitter and I hope that was a hint that I was going to bring it up in the show but did you you see that the Church of England actually took a stand and said that same sex marriage is the only kind of marriage there is in town. Could you read that heterosexual sheet. Oh I'm sorry heterosexual marriage. Well I mean on the one hand I can believe it because it's so bait. Patently patently absurd to think otherwise but on the other hand. I can't believe it because you would think that they would at least cave a little bit especially because it really wishy washy. I don't follow them too much. Obviously because they're the Church of England and were America and we fought a war so we don't care about England but they are. They believe that you can be in a relationship together. As long as you're not sexual like if you're gay you know whatever and all that stuff and so it was just really surprising to me because to me. It's like if your audio yeah I know so I mean that's not really that common of a belief I guess it but it seems to me that there's like this pattern and it looks like the kind of took a step back instead of going so those kind of encouraging. Yeah that's true it's a little bit. It's not what you would expect. The pattern is to go the other way and then they're just kinda hesitating a little bit now and that's a good thing I'll take any pushback even if it's just a little bit does just a moment of relief. Listen to listen to the guidance it says sexual relationships outside outside. Heterosexual marriage are regarded as falling short of God's purposes for human beings. Like you know so. They're not trying. They're not they're trying not to be jerks. I get get it but at least they they end up in kind of the right place right and they even say like if You know same sex couple came then. We'll encourage the pastors to take care of. It passed earlier earlier. Something very soft like very very weak. But you know you can't you can't get the whole thing. I guess with the Church of England but still I I appreciate the little the little bit of truth. Yeah and I so I brought this up for two reasons. One is that it was like. Oh it's kind of refreshing that we actually get a pause in this decline in these denominations but also just reading the article as reading it from the Guardian and it really just struck me that every time there is people that talk about the church. It's not assuming that God exists. It's always like well. The Rights Really GonNa love their position on this and it's almost just political and end. Game of thrones kind of like what kind of moves are they making behind the scenes. And what alliances do they have. There's no like it. Well God says this in the Bible and they're actually going going along with it like the assumption God doesn't exist in religion is just this crutch for all of humanity. Yeah it's just a political game like anything else right exactly early you know like why. Why did they come out with this statement at this time? What are they trying to do to the elections in the United States is like you know like like it doesn't? It's not that they actually read the Bible. They consider it God's word they said well you know let's clear. Yeah no they're taking a principled stand in their resting on their biblical foundation. No it's none of that whatsoever however that's not just true church England. I see that with all of the commentary on our churches it's always like Oh. Trump's fans are republicans. Whatever there's no mention of if God exists exists and and and again I sadly a lot of this kind of assumption of you know? It's not really what about what God says it wiggles wiggles. Its way into our circles as well. You see how people talk about like one example was recently people were all up in arms because one of the seminary presidents uncharacteristically made hard statement against James Cone of the founder of black theology. And he said he's a heretic and then everyone in their mother you know in the social justice debate was like this is not about theology. This is about a black man who said strong things like. You're just just assuming that God hasn't spoken right. You know what I mean. This guy is saying God has spoken. This is why I say this. You're just assuming that that can't be the case. This asked to be political olitical. It has to be racially motivated. It's it's there's so many examples of this that we could talk about this forever definitely Russell more just tweeted an old article about being pro-life that does the same exact thing where it's like you know like you know being prologue you know. We don't have to agree on affirmative action but we should agree that good you know black people madder sadder and but there's like no references to scripture right. It's like it's like no we do have to agree on affirmative action. God has spoken. And you know we do have to agree On healthcare systems and stuff like that God has spoken like we. We don't get to agree to. This is not a political game to me. Yeah right absolutely like the politics are so oh secondary yeah Things but I wonder if the reason why the world like talks and writes articles like God. It doesn't exist and just assume that it's all political is because we are so soft and we don't say things like thus says the Lord but we do the Russell more approach of. Yeah well you know. Let's just think about it from a rational perspective and a logical perspective. Sure I wonder I I honestly don't know but it it it it it makes sense to me. I mean people aren't used to hearing that like like I remember. One time I saw a sixty minutes I think it was sixty. Minutes is very old episode of sixty minutes with with RJ. Rush Judy on it. He was the theology guy and imagine rushed. Uni being on sixty minutes like. That's that's pretty crazy. And so they were asking him. They said they said so. So wait a minute wait a minute let me get this straight. You're saying that if somebody is caught in a homosexual sexual act that they should be stoned. Is that what you're saying like they couldn't even believe it and and and Russia and he says I'm not saying that God says what choice do I have. I have to listen to what God says and I thought that was such an interesting answer is like this is not about what I prefer. I just I just read it. It's on the page I have and you might quibble with what he believes there but the point is he still willing to be sold out to what God says. It's not about his opinion he doesn't care he's like it's not me. I just don't have a choice. I have to accept it. Yeah I g three which man so many people ask where you were on a story missed. Yeah I really wish I could have done. It was like this. The whole time and of this house thing was awful for that but anyway I totally understand that but anyways but you're going to be there for the fight laugh. Feast Conference Right in Tennessee. Okay good because everyone was like you better make him come and I'm like what do you want me to fly up there grabbing by ear and dragged. Yeah I'll be there great but During the breakout session that cross politics toby. It went on such a great rant about that similar thing and they were talking about the autonomy versus You know the difference between that end. What do they call? What crecy and they're bringing up those things like? What do you say to people that? Say Like Oh you believe that gay people should be stone or adulterous. People should be stoned. And he's like. Don't give me that in indignation and being condescending or killing thousands of babies a day right now somebody is dying. Someone is always has to die like that's just how the world works so don't come at me with like how can you be for wanting to stone adulterous or a homosexual or whatever or slaughtering children in every single day and it just gave me the chills. It was so good you know when toby gets on one of those rants absolutely absolutely. It's it's I was just on a podcast yesterday with with a guy that He goes to a Federal Vision Church anyway. Anyway we were talking about this exact thing where where people get all high and in Madiun. It's like y you you've got no right like like people say oh there's there's six hundred laws in the old testament just impressive. That's impressive and he's like do you know how many laws ause are on your. Probably your city ordinances. You probably got twenty thousand in a typical city and if you go to New York City you're probably talking in the hundred thousands of laws Recive totally and this is the thing I was listening to a federal worker. Who Does investigations? And he was sane rain. Every single citizen in the United States has broken federal law. That's what I told this guy. I said ten laws every day without even blinking and I right and what does that say to justice like if every single person is guilty and can be nailed on something. I mean. That's not a just society. No no but that's not get when you reject God's Law God's law simple God's laws not. There's not a lot of them and it's not oppressive at all there's a ton of freedom but people who are slaves by nature which is people that are slaves to send you know. That's that's what we are by nature. Hr were slaves to sin. We can't handle freedom. We reject it. We need to be we. We we need to be enslaved. And so we just enslave ourselves. Yeah yeah definitely and so. I think it's a good reminder in going back to kind of our goal of this year of being the cover is to throw throw this back in their faces like we don't need to be defensive and be retreating from this try to backpedal and cutting rationalize what God has said. We don't God doesn't need us to do. You know qualify things for him but we could just be bold and throw it back at them is like Oh you think you're so just you're killing innocent people. You're selling their body parts you know. Oh you're doing it for your own prosperity for no medical reason like give me a break. You guys have no sense of morality whatsoever. Who are you to throw that back at us? We should have the the firm stance to be able to do that. McCall Bible. The Bible has a great verse in. Marcus says used it for his show and it's a it's It starts off about cruelty to animals which some people don't know the Bible talks about this. It says a wise man has regard for his beast and then the next verses so interesting says but even the mercy of the wicked is cruel. And it's like yeah like your idea of mercy is actually cruel objectively. That's what it is for progresses. Yeah there's a compassionate there so woke there so cared about justice and yet they they think it should be a fundamental human right to murder your child if you want to. There's there's no there's no better example than that we cannot give that up..
"federal vision church" Discussed on Reformgelical
"What's happening nick? Thank you for joining us. Thank you for the rest of you joining US including my co host eighty. Welcome back to the show going fantastic. I'm glad we are here. I have to apologize for last week. Not having a show for all of our viewers except for those who watched live because we did do a show. Well I did a show and I was warned that my sound was off and I didn't think it was me and so I didn't fix is it and then the next day I looked at the recording and the sound was terrible and I didn't even WanNa put it put it out for the public to see plus it was just me so it wasn't that good anyways this so I apologize for not telling people we were gonNA miss it if it was not planned. Are we gonNA start this episode talking about something NASA related again. Yes is please. Here's something that here's something that I discovered the other day okay. Voyager two which is a space probe that we launched in nineteen eighteen seventy seven is currently about eleven billion miles away from Earth. That's that's what they say. And it's still it's still transmits us. And so this thing that will launch the seventy seven as been flying for you know how how many years that forty years more than that forty years and it just supposedly just. I left the solar system. Finally isn't that crazy. That is crazy now. I wonder how does that thing stay working. If I can't even get an iphone that works for longer than a year because NASA doesn't purposely slow down and explode your phone I've been having those issues as new. IOS US Open Came out my phone started being slow crashing overheating. It so it's true. They don't make them like they used to know. purposively typically welcome to fun facts NASA with eighty rebels. Am I know what reform jellicoe where the reforming van gels meet. I am really excited to be back with you. All is just such a great time. Even when I'm traveling I make a point to be here because Is this just just fun stuff that that we do here next week. Just want to let you know. We're going to have our first guest. I don't know how that's GONNA go. It's going to be interesting. We are going to be having brandon. Adams comes on. He wrote an article called. Let's see what was called. Federal Vision Baptists. And that's how I read question marks. You know this this gentleman Brenden Adams Eighty. No but I I mean I I read the article today and I. I saw some people talking about it in about him and apparently he's a sixty-nine Baptist and a reform libertarian. He's known YUP which Reform Libertarian. Kind means something to me but that Baptist Lingo. So I'm going to have to study up on this to be sure I did read the article honestly like I could be wrong but I think it just means. He's reformed in a libertarian. Oh okay interesting so there. It's been interesting and we're having him on because there were so many people asking for him to be on the show and were excited for him to be on the show and someone gave me their contact information. Thought it was interesting article because it actually gave some points on what federal vision is so. We're surprised it is rare right and then the other reason I wanted to have him on is because a lot of people vouched for him saying that he's like legit man guy who trying to be fair and I even saw a Twitter exchange with him in summer yeager where he walked back in apologized and said he misrepresented her position. So I WANNA talk to those people. I think that is a great great person to talk with even though he's bashing on our you know Lord and Savior Doug Wilson Federal Ditch. nist still say that they're gonNa no you don't understand you just 'cause a lot of grief for yourself you're serious Idaho. They do. The joke is they don't realize that I don't even really think I'm reformed or Presbyterian so it's GonNa be really interesting to talk about. I don't know how the founders guys are getting out of this I see. Joel School Tom Son commenting a lot. But it's like apology is getting a lot of heat for this too. Yeah interesting yeah so the idea is that apology is you know they're theon animists. And they a platform a lot of people that are allegedly federal vision as well also if you noticed in the article he says that Marcus Pittman. Who goes to apology is a federal originalist interesting? Well I call not all the time right but I think carries a lot less weight. Because I don't even really know what I'm saying. So but yeah so. That's going to be interesting. I just want to get to a point where we kinda can get to an agreement that were not heretics either side died. Maybe I don't know sometimes. I just wish that there's like a T. account in accounting where we could like put on things that really are worth fighting each other about and then things that we could spend resources in fighting on like more important things. Let me say this. Because I'll give you a little sneak preview of next week and et the Brandon listens to this. I don't think he will but if he does he'll kind of know where I'm coming from ahead of time 'cause I got nothing to hide. Well I'll make sure I send it to him so he'll just know how yeah. Yeah and just. Don't listen to the first few minutes that's because this is basically my position so he can become prepared to refute what I'm GonNa say perfect but So so I I a couple things about me right off the bat I attended a Federal Vision Church for like six to twelve months somewhere between there and when I say attended a Federal Vision Church I mean the pastor was literally a federal vision guy he happily endorsed I it and he was one of the more extreme versions right so black coffee federal vision guy the church itself honestly if you ask people about they wouldn't even know what you're talking about most of them and the guy never pushed at he never put it wasn't part of the worship service like it's just something that he held it was a CNBC the church and I'm sure it affected some of their worship but if you went to the church you would never know that there was any difference right And so I never became federal vision. We talked about it a number of times. He knew that I wasn't a federal vision. Guy He was a great guy and I thought he was wrong about some things and to me I see. Federal Vision is an error in the same kind of level of like Armenian. Ism Right and I know that some people here might be our millions. That's fine my. I don't think that's correct act but I don't think you're a heretic either. You know what I mean and also Armenian ISM. I think if you're if you take many to its logical conclusion. You eventually would become become a heretic. Most Armenians aren't being consistent with it and I think it's the same thing with federal vision if you take federal vision to his logical conclusions. You will eventually become a heretic but what most of them are doing that. You know what I mean to allow for category of people will you know that yes. There are millions but they don't go as far as they could go with it a- and become a actual literal. Heretic I it's not exactly the same. Obviously but that's the kind of level of error. I would see it as so I'm not thinking get everyone's a wolf and I'm not all that stuff and I could still fellowship with people that would hold to federal vision to some degree. There are some people that I'd be like I don't know about that's sweater. Yeah right you know what I mean. And that's that's the reality. I think that there are definite and honestly I think that's why Doug Wilson doesn't call himself that anymore because he's recognizing that there are some wack wack guys out there you know what I mean. Yeah and yeah and he'd like really makes a point to like the brand that federal vision has become is not who he is goes out and talks about all the time and so some of these people don't even quote him anyways. We can talk about this more next time. I just wanted to kind of tease it. But and the one of the things I am going to ask him brandon is like. Why do you feel the need to write this article in the first place like to me? It seems like a waste of time and a wizard as you why I won't go write a blog about something that is more pressing and more threatening to the church. I don't know that's going to be an interesting conversation. Brennan don't worry Brandon. I'M GONNA defend send you because I like the article. That is a big meeting. But I'm really just a big softy. And I and I I liked it and I thought it was helpful in some ways but I I see what you're saying. I know I think it was helpful to an honestly it was helpful in the sense of like just laying out federal vision for me. But why are you going to go attack. Doug Wilson and it doesn't doesn't even sound like you talked to him and maybe he did and we can clarify that but to me. It just sounds like he was hearing from what other people were saying. Maybe he was quoting direct quotes. I Dunno but we'll talk about that but my strategy is and this is the last thing I'll say about it just so brandon. We'll know I'M GONNA act like a dummy to make sure that all of us who are not S- Ano- out I drove. I'm going to play my part true and I'm going to ask a lot of dumb simple questions to make sure that we're all on the same page and then eighty I'm GonNa to let you attack him and just get in there after so that that's how it's GonNa go. Maybe I don't know maybe I'll throw the playbook out we'll see about that. If you have not not already come become a patron go over to Patriae on dot com slash reform jellicoe. You can find us on all the social media sites reform Delco you can also find. Ad And all the great content that he's putting you're putting out like twelve days of Christmas. Is that your next series. Yeah I'm actually sane. Really Nice things at least I think they're nice about people that I have a sneaking suspicion don't like me very much and who I disagree with a lot of things. Jerry Lewis is the glorious season you know yeah it is a glorious season and we should be charitable so check him out on Youtube. We are both on the fight laugh. Federal Vision Network go over to fight Lafayette by my fees DOT COM and check us out become a member and yeah so let's just get into it so there were for a bunch of topics I asked. I asked you to set the agenda. Yeah and you send a great agenda and I then added to it without telling you. So here's one of the things. Let's do it okay. One of them and it was just. I was watching the news between when I got off work and came on and I was watching some of the impeachment trial. Oh my goodness and one of the things that struck me and I want to call attention to in Hook in hopes that we are not doing this as Christians ourselves but but for me it seems like both sides but specifically in this case the Democrat side people are giving them a pass on things that they should be prosecuted on just because they're on their team and politicians are elevated to this level where you can't the attitude is you can't persecute them. You can't bring them to justice because they're on your team because they are politicians because you're playing partisan politics then and yeah and I just. I don't want that to be in our thinking and our conversations Christians. We need to be a wiser than that. We need to rise above of that. What do you think about that? Yeah so this is this is what the laws in the Old Testament about. Partiality are all about God. It says you you shouldn't be partial to To a rich man or a poor man in there in a in a in a lawsuit right and the idea is that there's a real real temptation for people to to to to you know gives someone that has power someone that has money. Some of that has authority the benefit of the doubt and to not treat them the way you would treat just anybody and you could easily see why that would be. I mean you know. They're your friends you know you can you can you. You can call them back for a favor later and stuff like that. And God's law is very very careful and strict about that. It doesn't matter who it is it can be you know. Oh a rich person like you. It could be another person on your team. It could be another person with your same tribe ethnicity. Whatever it is it can be a poor person you can have poor solidarity already? That's a big one with socialism and stuff like that is gut says it doesn't matter what class they're in nothing. The law is the same. It's the same for whoever. It is the standards you are the same and so this.