19 Episode results for "Federal Bank"
'Love & Hip Hop: Atlanta' Star Charged With Fraud After Obtaining $2M PPP Pandemic Loan
"This from Atlanta a love and hip hop Atlanta cast member has been arrested on Federal Bank fraud charges in connection with a loan he obtained in the Corona Virus Pandemic. That was supposed to help his employees. Maurice Fain Aka Arkansas Mo- thirty seven Arkansas Mo was in court on Wednesday prosecutors. Say he stole. Money loaned through a paycheck protection program. That's P P P that was Mitt to assist hard hit employees and businesses used to buy and he used it to buy jewelry and other personal items. This students were in a global pandemic by jewelry quote. The defendant allegedly took advantage of the emergency lending provisions of the paycheck protection programme that were intended to assist employees and small businesses batter by the Corona Virus K. Said US attorney young pock of the northern district of Georgia. We will investigate charge. Anyone who inappropriately diverts these critical funds for their own personal gain now fain is the sole owner of Georgia Corporation called flame trucking. Now documents said he apply for loan for three point seven. Four million dollars that he said will be used to retain workers and maintain payroll and make mortgage and utility payments. The bank gave him alone for more than two million within days fain allegedly us more than one and a half million of the P P P loan proceeds to purchase eighty five thousand in jewelry including a Rolex presidential. Watch a diamond bracelet. A five point seven three carat diamond ring for himself and to pay forty thousand dollars.
Don't Dash For Cash: Authorities Say There's No Need To Empty The ATM
"Toilet tissue is not the only paper product. That Americans are hoarding. Some people are stockpiling paper money though there are risks to keeping too much cash on hand. Npr's Scott horsely reports in a frightening time cash can't seem like a much-needed security blanket in wealthy neighborhoods around the country. There are reports of people pulling tens of thousands of dollars in cash out of their bank accounts. Demand was so high one bank branch in midtown. Manhattan temporarily ran out of hundred dollar bills. The New York Times says the bank was quickly restocked but federal bank regulators are urging customers to calm down. Forget the mattress forget horn cash. Your money is the safest at the bank yellen. Amac Williams is the chairwoman of the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation which Safeguards Bank accounts. She understands the anxiety corona virus provokes. But says there's no need for customers to empty the ATM just as it does not necessarily rational to hoard toilet paper it is also not rational to hoard cash. Some banks have closed branches or limited hours out of concern for their workers but ATM's are still operating with frequent cash deliveries from armored trucks. Treasury Secretary Steve. Mnuchin noted this week. Armored truck drivers and others who work in financial services are considered essential parts of the nation's critical infrastructure. Greg McBride bankrate Dot Com says because that infrastructure is still functioning. The race to grab cash is misguided. This is not a natural disaster like a hurricane or an earthquake where the electricity is out came. It systems are down. This is the opposite in many ways in that. If you're hold up at home having a pile of cash doesn't do a whole lot of good. Mcbride says homebound. Customers are better off leaving their money in the bank so they can pay their mortgage or credit card bills online and where they don't have to worry about loss or theft before the corona virus hit McBride notes. Americans were steadily moving away from cash relying more and more on credit or debit cards as well as digital payments even the person to person payments That's increasingly done. Through apps like then mo or Zell and not by region into your pocketbook out Some green stuff and handing it to your colleague. Of course there are millions of Americans who don't have bank accounts and may have to rely on cash. Some have suggested handling paper. Money may increase your chances of getting or passing on the corona virus. Although there's little scientific consensus on that in some cases people's rushed to pull money out of the bank has been stoked by scam. Artists McWilliams says the FDIC worn a California gold dealer last week to stop advertising its products with the false claim that consumer bank accounts could be seized in a time of crisis. That is absolutely false. It's patently false. And frankly it's criminal. In my opinion the nation's banks came into this crisis in strong financial shape even if a bank fails McBride says deposits are insured up to a quarter million dollars per person. Nobody has ever lost any money. That's been protected by federal deposit insurance and I think that's a point worth underscoring to consumers that are unsettled enough by the events that are going on from a health standpoint so if you need a security blanket in these uncertain times grab an extra roll of toilet paper if you can find one but leave your cash in the back Scott horsely. Npr News Washington.
Trump Signs Aid Package, Epicenter Is Now The U.S.
"The United States now has more cases of covert nineteen the disease caused by the corona virus than any other country. The number of confirmed cases here is approaching one hundred thousand today alone in this country. At least three hundred and forty people have died. This is an emergency challenge to the conscience as well as the budget of our country and every dollar that we spend is an investment in the lives in the livelihood of the American people. The House today voted to pass the more than two trillion dollars economic rescue package that was approved by the Senate and the president signed it coming up information about how millions of Americans could get their money plus an encouraging sign about the possibility of developing a vaccine. I'm Kelly mcevers. This is corona virus daily from NPR. It's Friday march twenty seventh. Thank you very much at the White House yesterday. The president as he has increasingly this week sounded impatient. We have to get back to work or people want to work. They want to go back. They have to go back in a letter to state governors. Yesterday trump said his administration was in the process of developing new guidance for some parts of the country to relax social distancing we may take sections of our country. We may take large sections of our country that aren't so seriously affected and we may do it that way but we've got to start the process. Pretty soon. Trump's letter said any new guidance would be based on science. Here's a scientist epidemiologist. Jennifer nozoe from Johns Hopkins to be able to say here is where people do not have to worry about getting the virus. We just don't have that kind of data. Npr's Rob Stein talk to know. So he says. Increased testing is starting to help officials identify hotspots. Us has done more than five hundred thousand tests and the number done. Each day is now growing quickly but that is still a small share of very big country and nozzle says it would be bad right now to give any one place a false sense of security telling places that aren't yet hard hit. Don't worry you're essentially sort of inviting chaos and stress and as testing surges. Other problems can follow in some places supplies like swabs materials to transport the samples. Even the chemicals needed to process. The tests have not kept up with the increased demand Joanne Marquess who heads the state public health lab in Minnesota said. Think of it like making a batch of cookies. We've got an a flower to make you know twenty four cookies but the host has just invited five hundred people to our Party and now we're going to be short of sugar and then we get sugar in and then the eggs are gone and then we're running out of other supplies as well. Joanne bark kissed talking to NPR's Rob Stein. So researchers have uncovered a little good news about this virus even as it spreads changes in its genetic makeup a rare and that is encouraging for developing treatment. And a vaccine. Npr's ping-kwan reports on that viruses changeups small parts of their genetic codes all the time mandatory viral gist at the University of Texas. Medical Branch says the corona virus is no different. Yes wires mutating. It doesn't mean that they're going to become more violent or deadly when a virus infects someone. It uses theirselves to make copies of itself. Those copies spread to more cells and can be coughed out to infect other people all makes small changes when they replicate but mandatory says that the Corona Virus is actually mutating pretty slowly the genomes are relatively stable the mutations that they incorporate a relatively rare and that's a good thing other like flu change much more quickly making them harder to prevent through scenes. Justin Ball is an evolutionary biologist. At the University of Georgia. He says the small changes researchers are seeing don't seem to affect how the virus functions at this point the overall genetic diversity. I is actually pretty low. The viruses themselves are not actually under pressure to change ball says it stability and slower mutation rate are good news for researchers working on treatments for the disease and on vaccines to keep people from getting corona virus within the next year or two. I don't think that's the mutations will occur fast enough to drift away from the vaccines so once Maxene is developed. It would likely protect people for a couple of years at least you in Harrison. A microbiologist at the University of Cambridge says a small genetic changes the corona virus is making actually help researchers figure out. The virus is spreading if it straws Michigan hospitals. If it's transmitting the community while the major hubs transmission tracking the viruses important because while it's not changing significantly right now that trend may not continue it could mutate become more infectious but it could also become less dangerous or even Peter out the only way researchers will know is by keeping a close eye on it ping pong. Npr News so about that money. That's going to be sent to Americans money from the economic rescue package. Here's how it's GonNa work single people. Earning less than seventy five thousand dollars a year. We'll get as much as twelve hundred dollars. Married couples who make less than one hundred and fifty thousand a year. We'll get twenty four hundred dollars and anyone with kids under seventeen. We'll get an additional five hundred dollars per child. It's not super clear how soon these payments will go out. Experts say could be a matter of weeks and that's if the IRS has your direct deposit information on file if they don't a check in the mail might take a few months that also goes for people without bank accounts and if you or someone you know already get social security you will also get money. Your information is on file with the government. One last thing the experts are telling us is. You probably shouldn't horde this or any other cash. Npr's Scott horsely reports that there are real risks to doing that. Federal Bank regulators are urging customers to calm down. Forget mattress. Forget horn cash. Your money is the safest at the bank. Yellow Williams is the chairwoman of the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation which safeguards bank accounts. She understands the anxiety. The Corona virus provokes but says. There's no need for customers to empty the ATM. Just as it does not necessarily rational too Hort toilet paper it is also not rational to hoard cash. Some banks have closed branches or limited hours out of concern for their workers but ATM's are still operating with frequent cash deliveries from armored trucks Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin noted this week. Armored truck drivers and others who work in financial services are considered essential parts of the nation's critical infrastructure. Greg McBride Bankrate.com says because that infrastructure is still functioning. The race to grab cash is misguided. This is not a natural disaster. You like a hurricane or earthquake where the electricity is out. Payment Systems are down. This is the opposite in in many ways in that. If you're hold up at home having a pile of cash doesn't do a whole lot of good. Mcbride SAYS HOMEBOUND. Customers are better off leaving their money in the bank so they can pay their mortgage or credit card bills online and where they don't have to worry about loss or theft before the corona virus hit. Mcbride notes. Americans were steadily moving away from cash relying more and more on credit or debit cards as well as digital payments even person to person payments That's increasingly done. Through apps like then mo or Zell and not by region into your pocket book out Some green stuff and handing it to your colleague. Of course there are millions of Americans who don't have bank accounts and may have to rely on cash. Some have suggested handling paper. Money may your chances of getting or passing on the corona virus. Although there's little scientific consensus on that in some cases people's rushed to pull money out of the bank has been stoked by scam. Artists McWilliams says the FDIC worn a California gold dealer last week to stop advertising. Its products with the false claim that consumer bank accounts be seized in a time of crisis. Dad is absolutely false. It's patently false. And frankly criminal. In my opinion the nation's banks came into this crisis in strong financial shape even if a bank fails McBride says deposits are insured up to a quarter million dollars per person. Nobody has ever lost any money. That's been protected by federal deposit insurance and I think that's a point worth underscoring to consumers that are unsettled enough by the events that are going on from a health standpoint so if you need a security blanket in these uncertain times grab an extra roll of toilet paper if you can find your cash in the bank that was. Npr's chief economic correspondent. Scott horsely okay so before we go. We do have a couple of recommendations for your weekend. Npr's tiny desk concert series is introducing tiny desk home concerts. Check out the episode notes for linked to this one by tank from tank at the bengals and NPR's pop culture happy hour. Podcast has a whole bunch of books movies TV and music to get you through your time indoors. We recommend the recent episode on three things to stream that your whole family can enjoy again. There is a link in the notes for news through the weekend. You can stay up to date with all the news on your local public radio station and on. Npr Dot Org. This podcast is produced by Gabriella. Sal Devia an LEA and Brent bachman edited by Beth Donovan. You guys are awesome. We will be back next week. I'm Kelly mcevers.
Wells Fargo: repairing a damaged brand
"Welcome to the financial times. Bake read a weekly podcast, featuring the best for long form reporting from around the world. I'm Caroline Grady from opinion and analysis desk Wells Fargo has lurched from one scandal to another and its valuation is no longer out of premium to other banks. The scandals have raised unsettling questions. Save Robert Armstrong, and Laura Newnan that many customers stayed loyal to the Bank. It's financial performance has improved. But to two trillion dollar cap on asset is still holding it back. This report is narrated by Robert Armstrong. Tim Sloan thinks that Wells Fargo is the best Bank in the world after more than two years as chief executive of the scandal riven lender. He is quick to provide evidence deposit growth loan growth returns to show that while the Bank has been wounded by controversy. It is now returning to its feet the view from outside. The group, however is very different in interviews with the financial times, dozens of investors academics, competitor's and employees ease describe a damaged brand a workforce held back by fear of repeating past mistakes and the immense difficulty of drawing a line under one of the ugliest banking scandals in an era full of them, a cutthroat sales culture in the retail division, where perverse incentives lead employees to open millions of false accounts and miss sell. Other products was ignored or brushed aside by the board and senior management until the story. Went public in two thousand sixteen wells first response when the problems emerged was mass firings of lower level employees more than five thousand were forced out only after this bad apple theory, failed to convince regulators politicians or the public was there aboard overhaul the replacement of most senior leaders and an effort to rewire the banks culture other instances of bad behaviour continued to come. Alight at wells. And the Bank remains under tighter regulatory scrutiny than any other US lender in recent memory prominent politicians said that Mr. Sloan who led wells wholesale banking operation while the misselling was taking place is not fit to lead the Bank. Mr. Sloan takes all this in his stride, consistent with what a colleague calls his unflappable down to earth, mid western style. He says when any politician is running for office they're trying to win. And when they do that, they will either mentioned us or not mentioned us to the extent that it's beneficial to their election. We understand that that's their business. His composure is drawn in part from the banks performance, which has been remarkably steady, given the enormity of the scandal. The bank's valuation will no longer at a premium is on par with other big American banks and some early signs of growth are visible, but wills considers itself more than just another. Bank. It was on top of the industry in returns, valuation and reputation. The question is whether it can reach those heights again, and there Mr. Sloane faces a very skeptical audience. Dave Ellison portfolio manager of the Hennessy large-cap financial fund and investor and financials for thirty years says with these type of stories the company's never get their premiums. Back. People have other places to go. Now wells is just another big me to Bank Perry. Pilose wells, head of wholesale banking describes the old Wells Fargo as a company that prided itself on decentralized decision making that's good for certain things. But it's not good for other things. The problem is that we did that for everything the description may understate some of the problems the Bank is faced an entrepreneurial culture in which business units and managers were left to take decisions and pursue growth. In response to local conditions extended to controls and comply. Science a strong culture of credit risk management was matched by precious little culture of operational risk management. The scandal. Raised an unsettling question. What if the management structure responsible for wells past success was ultimately unsustainable by reputation? The Bank had been better at assessing credit risk and had a stronger deposit taking franchise than any other lender. It was one of the big four holdings at Berkshire Hathaway along with American Express Coca Cola and IBM and Warren Buffett and praise. It's brilliant outstanding management in early two thousand sixteen will shares traded to times they're tangible book value while Bank of America and J P Morgan traded between one and one and a half times book. Now wells is traded down to Bank of America's level and J P Morgan has risen to become the only big US Bank to trade at twice. Book Gerard Cassidy banks analysts at RBC thinks that wills radically decentralized structure, which led to the scandal was also. So one of the reasons for the history of strong financial results. He says, I don't see the premium valuation coming back because of the way they do business. Now, they have put in processes that are an obstacle to that premium profitability underwriting decisions were not centralized a unique system that helped generate the extra returns as the Bank works to come in line with industry standards for controls and compliance when employee describes a sense, we're stagnating no real leaders have emerged to pull us out of wallowing in internal consensus-seeking. They sit on every problem and give us the same pep rally. Happy talk the employee says rivals say that wells chasing by its past mistakes become scared of its own shadow. Even Mary Mack, runs wells massive consumer Bank says staff are still more cautious than you'd want them to be those closer to wells, including ten senior executives who spoke with the F T argued that the bank's core strengths in credit creation and deposit. Taking remain Mr. Sloan. On points out that primary checking accounts, a key yardstick for what retail customers think of the Bank are increasing at a rate of nearly two percent recovering from zero growth immediately after the scandal broke, but still less than the five percent in the two years before it when wells reports fourth-quarter earnings this week investors will hope to see the momentum continue well loan growth hovered around zero after the scandals broke it never tipped into negative territory. Mrs Mack says existing customer stuck with us customer retention is at a year high. It was with perspective customers choosing between us and another Bank that we got hurt Mr. pilose, the head of wholesale banking agrees. He says I've been in some awkward conversations. But by and large our customers have stuck with us. They know their banker our results have been okay. Because of that new customers have been harder to convince he suspects the scandals have made corporate clients cautious. Thing to themselves. I'd hate to be the CFO that recommended wells to my board. And then something else happens financial services is a sticky business customer relationships. Once one are hard to lose. Whether resilience of wells franchise is down to this inertia weren't that unique characteristics of the company it's long history and small and mid sized American communities is open to debate wills business proves sticky in another sense following the scandals. There was no exodus of executives. Several head hunters specializing in banks profess surprise at the low level of turnover at the top of the Bank. One senior executive at wells says on his decision to stay I've been heavily recruited for other jobs. The opportunities are great for people here. Wells key challenge, then is winning with new customers. But that means getting back to selling win an out of control sales culture is exactly what got the Bank in trouble. The banks. Leaders are acutely aware of the balancing act. John Shrewsbury chief financial officer says employees have really adopted more of a compliance mindset, and a customer experience mindset, rather than a convert customers and expand the business mindset because that was near the center of what created problems wills has another reason for optimism Rupert younger who leads the Oxford centre for corporate reputation argues that customers are much faster to forgive scandals of character like wells than scandals have competence. He says wells will bounce back in two or three years. They will be fine. Wells is arguably receiving closer scrutiny and tighter regulation on a sustained basis than any American Bank ever has as it overhauls its governance and compliance regimes it is operating under to consent orders. One from the Federal Reserve Board and one issued jointly by the consumer finance protection bureau. And the office of the comptroller of the currency. The Federal Reserve has capped the bank's balance sheet at two trillion dollars until it is satisfied that adequate controls are in place. One lawyer specializing in financial regulation says this amounts to an open ended policy experiment executives at the company acknowledged that they are aiming at a moving target. As regulators will only know what is good enough when they see it asked if the Bank was on the same page as the regulators Mr. pilose says that in an outline in a classical sense for the big Roman numerals. We absolutely are. But for the details there is no checklist. No playbook for this. The sense that there is no clear. Endgame has been compounded by a steady flow of news. Reflecting regulators continued disatisfaction with wells most worryingly in October the Bank placed it's chief administrative officer and chief auditor on. Leave reportedly after the OCC sent each of them letters informing them that it would pursue sanctions against them. A former federal Bank supervisor told the F T that such letters sent after regulatory intervention has been proceeding for years suggested that regulators were still discovering problems not just fixing them with the campaign for the twenty twenty election already starting wills Fargo will figure in the partisan conflict over president Donald Trump's deregulatory agenda, Maxine Waters, the democrat who has just become head of the house of representatives financial services committee said last year that something is terribly wrong at wells in October. Elizabeth Warren the likely presidential candidate who sits on the Senate banking committee said the fed should not remove wells asset cap until Mr. Sloan who she says is deeply implicated in the Bank scandals is removed. If the company cannot get the asset. Cap removed in the first half of this year as it has promised investors. The pressure to remove Mr. Sloan will become intense. The fed refused to comment on any of its dealings with wells one analysts asks who is qualified who wants the job listing potential candidates, including former US Bank Corp, boss, Richard Davis, PNC chief Bill DEM check. J P Morgan retail banking boss, Gordon Smith and former Goldman Sachs chief operating officer Gary Cohn. The analysts says all have no interest reports suggesting that Mr. Cohn has already declined an approach are strenuously denied by the company. Mr. Sloan says it didn't happen yet. The banks leadership knows it is at the center of a political battle. Mr. Pilo says got treated worse than companies who have killed people because it's good political fodder. Thank you for listening. If you have enjoyed this big read putt cast you can. Scribe on all the usual channels. If you're not already an F T subscriber. Visit F T dot com forward slash offer. For our latest subscription offers. This episode was produced by Caroline, Grady.
Community Reinvestment Act Reform: How Did We Get Here and Where Are We Going?
"Welcome to the consumer finance monitor. Podcast where we explore important new developments in the world of consumer financial services. And what they mean for Your Business Your customers and the industry. I'm your host. Alan Complaints Ski. I share the Consumer Financial Services Group Ballard SPAHR and I am very pleased to be moderating today's program before I introduce our very special guests today. Let me just remind you that our consumer financial services group It communicates with you through various Media in addition to our podcast we also have our blog which is also called consumer finance monitor riposted our blogs since two thousand eleven when the CFP got stood up We also regularly hosts webinars on subjects of interest to those in those of you in the industry. So if you want to subscribe to our blog or to get on the list for Webinars you just visit us on our website. Ballard SPAHR DOT COM. If you like our podcast today please let us know about it. You can leave us a review on apple podcast. Google play or whatever platform. You used for your podcasts. So today I'm very pleased that I'm joined by our special guest Kenneth Thomas as I will refer to Kenneth to him. Is Ken before I recite Some of your very impressive accomplishments can let me welcome you to consumer finance monitor. Thank you how it missed a pleasure to be here talking about my favorite topic okay. So can who has. The doctorate is by many accounts. The Nation's leading expert and author on the Community Reinvestment Act or will refer to it by its acronym CRA. He has testified before. Congress on numerous occasions advised regulators all the prudential banking regulators the OCC FDIC Federal Reserve Board on CRA. He's trained Federal Bank Examiners and he has written numerous articles and two books on CRA including the CRA Hambach many of its recommendations in the Hamburg were implemented into current CRA regulations. Most recently. He was asked by the Treasury Department. And some individual bank regulators and members of Congress for his input on CR a reform. He's worked with banks regulators and even community groups in a consulting capacity. Sense the nineteen seventy seven. Cra Law was established. He's also launched an acted as chair of the board of trustees of two different nationwide. Cra Investment Mutual Funds including the Community Development Fund. You can get more information on that at. Www Dot community development fund dot com that was launched in two thousand April two thousand sixteen and goes under the ticker symbol of C D C D X. Canas Community Bank for nearly twenty years And also Most notably received his doctorate from the Wharton School of the University of Pennsylvania Where he taught banking and finance for forty two years. That is my Alma Mater Ken. Unfortunately I graduated from Pan. I hate to say it from the Wharton School. Got By be out there before you began to teach their can is also a regular speaker and writer for in the banking industry mainly for the American Bank her but he's appeared frequently on. Abc Radio Bloomberg Radio and TV CNN CNBC MSNBC nightly business news and P. R. So again a very warm welcome to. You can't thank you so this is how we're going to proceed. Today I've tried to Scope out with Kellyanne The easiest way to explain to wire listeners the history of the CRA And the evolution of the CRA. As I mentioned during my intro it was the Nakd it in nineteen seventy seven longtime ago. Things were a lot different at that time it was before there was such a thing as the internet or online banking And there was really no interstate. Banking to speak of of that time and indeed Very unusual at that time for companies to be offering banks to be offering their products by even by mail or telephone crossing state lines. That that shows you know what the situation was like back. Then but I'm GONNA go back there to nineteen seventy seven and we'll save from nine hundred seventy seven CANTU nineteen eighty nine. What can you share with us about the origins of CRA with Senator Proxies Meyer? Who I think was. It would be considered the architect of that law. Well first of all Thank you again for this opportunity to discuss my favorite topic yes. Senator Proxy Meyer from Wisconsin was the author of this act and he pushed very hard on it and there were many people. Are that fought Amman. It most particularly the banking industry Even the Federal Reserve they considered at the time of form of credit allocation They did not want it. The industry did not want it however community groups mainly in Chicago one of them in particular the National Training Information Center N. I see with gale's Inkatha. She was very concerned about redlining. And Red. Lining was very prevalent during that period. And it's important to point out that relining the way it's used in. Cra is based on redlining a low and moderate income area based on income characteristics. Not Racial Characteristics. There's a very big difference between the CRA which focuses on income particularly low and moderate income and laws discriminatory laws like the E. coli That referred to racial discrimination. That's often confused. And for that reason is clear that Sierra was not a civil rights yet but merely a law very simple long to say that banks when they consider credit bus consider their entire community including lower moderate income areas did not say banks have to make a loan does not say they have to make bad loans. It just says they have to consider their entire community when making alone and this was considered credit allocation by the Federal Reserve. They pushed hard against it but Saturday. Approx Meyer Chairman of Senate Banking Committee up until Nineteen eighty-eight. Basically got this through and in one thousand nine hundred eighty eight basically I would say from. Nineteen seventy seven to nine eighty nine. The period you mentioned on the law sat dormant. No one really knew about it because the ratings were public the information was no one's hands and nothing really happened until one thousand nine hundred nine okay And then in nineteen eighty nine. What What happened then. Well most major bank regulations in our country are as a result of a major financial crisis for example the Great Depression the great recession. And at that time we had the crisis if you remember Eighty eight eighty nine ninety and we had fire which was the SNL bailout. We had two congressmen. Actually I had the opportunity to work with them. Briefly Henry Gonzales from Texas and Joe Kelley From Boston. They pushed through an amendment. That said yet we're GONNA do the bailouts with Ria but we're gonNA require that a portion of CRA exam be made public along with the CRA rating. This was the first time in history of banking going back to the National Banking Act of eighteen fifty or even before then that any bank rating was made public and of course being a student of banking Since the sixties I became very thrilled with that and I immediately decided to look at every exam that was being made available to the public starting July one hundred ninety so that was the watershed year for CRA. Not when it was passed in nineteen seventy seven one thousand nine hundred eighty nine when fiery required the readings to be made public. That's when everything turned around. Yeah well now Prior to that Were there were. Cra ratings although they were being made public But was we're the banking regulators using those ratings in assessing whether bank should be allowed to merge with another bank or should be allowed to branch. Were they being taken into consideration at that point or did that happen in nineteen ninety? That actually happened Later with some amendments however because the ratings were not public from nineteen seventy seven to eighty nine there were no community groups that could provide input and complain about him remember a Continental Illinois in nineteen eighty nine. We had one of the first major denials on Sierra Grounds At that time Being with the merger so there were there were some enforcement but it was very lax because the community groups were not involved and I think it's important to point out something I noted in my first book. I call the CRA triangle. Where I I use the acronym C to refer to community groups art to the regulators and a forced it. America's banks thrifts. So I want side. You have the community groups representing the community on the other side. The other side of the field you had the industry and the regulators kind of in the middle like a referee. They are there to balance it however when community groups are not involved and they don't have the opportunity to comment on a rating because it's not public. Nothing happens on that side. So that's why from nine hundred seventy seven to eighty nine without the publication of these Ravens The law basically was dormant right. Then things started to happen as you point out. Nineteen Ninety to nineteen ninety five but let's fast forward now to nine hundred ninety six and the twenty years from that date. What happened after that What reforms occurred. And how were you involved them as Senator Proxima contacted me nine hundred thousand nine hundred ninety one? The early nineties and out. When I was writing my first book he liked the fact that I had the first evaluation of literally a few thousand exams that were made public from nineteen ninety. Two nine thousand nine hundred ninety. Two and I found there was a lot of grade inflation. A lot of problems with it and bankers are not happy with the law Especially when the raiders were being made public a lot of banks failing maybe ten fifteen percent of them and so in nineteen ninety-five. We had a major reform. This reform actually started with senator proxy. Meyer introduced me Gene Ludwig at the time the comptroller and the OCC took the lead on reforming cra from a process based approach to more of a performance based approach so in three different sets of reforms. Ninety three ninety four ninety five. They finally figured out the formal reform. And that's the one thousand nine hundred five that went into effect the nineteen ninety-six. We're dealing with now. Those reforms that went into effect in ninety six are the ones that we have in place as of this woman. Okay And so what has happened. Have the community banks and the regulators worked with the ninety five rags. How has that worked well again? There was a lot of problems. A lot of dissension. The banks were not happy at the time in the early nineties I stated in my first book. Cra was no doubt the least like banking law of all remember bank. It is the most heavily regulated industry in the World American banking and this was the most hated law by far as a result banks wanted some change the FDIC the OCC and at the time the Federal Home Loan Bank board predecessor of the Ot us. They were pretty much together but the Federal Reserve again challenged the first set of reforms that came out ninety-three again in ninety four and finally they agreed pop something in ninety five and as a result those reforms were agreed upon by all the four regulators at the time and we went forward from there. Okay now I'm going to go to two thousand seventeen We have the election in two thousand. Sixteen president trump prevails. We have a lot of new faces at the financial regulators And by that time There is a lot of opposition to see Among the industry I know because my clients had to deal with. Cra All the time whenever they were being examined For Cra compliance. Or if they needed to get regulatory approval for a merger or they wanted a branch and at that time you know by now we got You know Online banking is. You know is everywhere. We've got some banks that only operate online We've got Interstate banking is you know been going on for decades at that point with banks issuing credit cards all over the country and offering all kinds of products lending products all over the country. Why has cra been such a top priority for the trump administration? The first reason was when trump was elected. Of course everybody knew he was a businessman and that was one of the reasons why he was elected. Not a not a lawyer all of the previous regulators for the most part they really not business people so he brought in treasury secretary pollution. Who was Work WITH THE BANK FORMER BANK BANKER. Comptroller audion both of them worked together with one west. The big institution that took over Indiana in California and then of course the head of the FDIC. She came from Fifth Third Bank. And even Jay Powell came from Wall Street so these are business. People familiar with how the laws worked rather than just being outside. You know. Politicians are lawyers not understanding the real days hard work involved. Cra and in particular secretary and Comptroller audion had some issues with the CRA. When they were doing the indy Mac one west especially the sale and as a result they came to Washington and they were very concerned about it. They had firsthand experience with it and they wanted to do two things they wanted to. First modernize law because as you mentioned a lot has changed since one thousand nine hundred five to the present over thirty years roughly and that second of all most importantly they wanted to make some improvements in it especially where community groups could come in and hold up a merger and some of these community groups which I outlined in my book Unfortunately some community groups work more for the group than for the community and they came in with every time there was a merger they would request a require some cra plan a merger community benefits plan. Which is not required by CRA so it almost became an unwritten rule that to get a major merger approved like with the Sun deviant merger juist that they had to come up with a big multi billion dollar plan but it was not required and CRA. So they wanted to make that process a little more industry-friendly and also mind helping the community so they decided to make that a top priority for both treasury and for the OCC okay And You were involved At that time you were invited. I believed to consult with The Treasury Department of about it to express your views on CRA reform And What what what we're What was your advice to point can. Yes I was contacted by Treasury a few times Went to Washington. I met with them and I basically explained to them that first of all. Cra to a large extent was very different than it was during the the nine hundred ninety. Five reform bankers a lot of learn to live with it. Ninety eight percent of banks were getting passing ratings. Which is the case today and CRA where at one time it was one of the most expensive regulations? It was no longer the case a Federal Reserve Bank of Saint Louis. Study done a few years ago concluded that by far the most expensive regulation and bank in his BSA CRA ranks down number six at only seven percent of compliance costs versus a twenty one percent. Three times that amount for BSA so they wanted to make cra a little bit better but not totally reformed so my main message to Treasury was CRA is working it needs a tune-up and used to be modernized for sure to account for Internet banking digital banking brushless banks but it needs to be tuned up. It does not need a major overhaul. It needs a tune-up that was my main message to them. At the same time I was also contacted by the Congressional Black Caucus to discuss with them. their options because they were looking at potential reform to in the event the regulators. David get it right. They wanted to have. They're kind of plan. B In a in effect so I at the same time was consulted with them. Okay and then the Finally the comptroller of the currency In two thousand eighteen issued in advance notice of proposed rulemaking What was in that advanced knows I take it. They asked a lot of questions at didn't really indicate what direction they were going in. Am My right exactly and There were at the time importantly this a NPR advance. Notice a public rulemaking was put out only by the OCC which was very unusual because ninety five all of the three different steps of those reforms were put out by the agencies together all forum in this case the OCC acted unilaterally which was very unusual but they went ahead with it because they wanted to keep moving forward as a result we got about fifteen hundred comments and comparison with the ninety five reforms. We got over fourteen thousand comments here. We got fifteen hundred comments with the a NPR about twenty. Two percent of them came from the banking industry and the risk came from the general public. Yeah so How come the comptroller did it alone? Why at that point did how come the Fed in the FDIC didn't join in the NPR? Both of the other agencies had their own mindset on where they felt Sierra was going and what it was doing they generally reflected the views of a lot of people in the industry that CRA was working fine again. Ninety eight percent of the banks were passing. It was not out heavy regulatory costs. It was number six the lists compared to other regulations and for the most part it was working everyone agreed. It needs to be modernized. But there's a very big difference between modernizing the law to account for digital banking and then totally overhauling or reform in it and the OCC was pretty much of the latter mindset they wanted to major overhaul versus the FDIC but especially the Fed. They wanted more. Everybody wanted to modernize it but they wanted more a tweaking improvement of the law rather than a major overhaul of it. Okay all right. We're now in a twenty twenty. The comment period very recently closed in April. How many comments were received this time? can't well the NPR had fifteen hundred comments and the NPR which by this time the FDIC joined along with the OCC but the Fed was still on its own. The comments are still coming in by last count. We got a approximately nineteen hundred fifty comments but this time around whereas the banking industry had twenty two percent of the comments in the amp are they only had nine percent of the comments this time so less than a half of the comments came from banks and most of them were not happy with the MPR. Most of the community groups are not happy at almost across the board. Almost all and I read all these One thousand nine hundred and fifty comments. Almost all of them were critical of the NPR. And I had submitted five of my own comments With my criticism as well well looks before we get to your criticism can what is in the the Notice of proposed rulemaking. The most important part of it I believe is the modernisation part I like to think of the NPR in two parts the modernisation part to Batard is it to account for bracelets banks and then the improvement slash. Overhaul part I was in favour most banks. You're in favor of a kind of a tune-up improvement. But the Aussie went to a very far along step. More extreme step of total overhaul the modernisation step in the NPR is quite good basically saying that any branchless bank mainly the credit card banks in Wilmington Salt Lake City Sioux falls that deposit them all over the country when out how a CRA Gatien in those communities where they get more than five percent of their deposits as long as more than fifty percents of their deposit base comes from outside of their local assessment area. Which is basically the local county in either Wilmington Salt Lake City. A Sioux falls so this was very good. This was a very important To me the most important part of the NPR. Because it was requiring these banks and these are big. Big Banks. With in my estimation having about one point six trillion dollars on deposits those three states those three states by the way only account for about one point two one point five percent of population to businesses in the country but represent thirteen percent ten times that amount in deposits because they're taking deposits from all of our big cities like New York. La Phillies Chicago. Miami and putting the crm benefits in those three communities and that is not right because CRA is about reinvestment so that part of the NPR. If properly understood was the most important part of it What else was in there in that? Npr and particularly I part of it that You're critical about yes. Currently we have six different exam procedures which are importantly designed to adjust the size of the banks and the different business models. You know being on the Board of a bank for twenty years. I can tell you as a community banker. You have a very different outlook on things than you would. For a large banker especially one of the big money center banks so under the current rags we have separate procedures for small banks it banks which are roughly three twenty six million to one point three billion in assets and large banks so we have three size categories of banks then we have separate exam procedures for Wholesale Banks Limited purpose banks and what we call the strategic plan bags in total there are about a hundred of these latter three groups the NPR basically eliminated the intermediate size category which represent about fourteen hundred banks. They also eliminated exam. Procedures for limited purpose in wholesale banks which represent another Fifty or so Banks these are very big banks by the way foreign banks out of New York City and a special purpose banks and for that reason those banks are being forced into other categories but the resultant NPR now has just two categories of size small banks up to five hundred million and everything over that is considered a large bank and then they've got the special category for Strategic Plan Banks. This is all right for the small bags because the small bank test was always relatively easy for basic ratio's kind of like a pop quiz in school is a very simple test however the large bank test under the NPR is very complicated involves several different steps and procedures several test. Very performance oriented very qualified very complicated. And for that reason. It's GonNa require a in my opinion. And actually the opinion of the regulators themselves a really significant regulatory burden on banks learning it and then learning how to implement it. And that's why so. Many banks opposed quite frankly why community groups who are opposed because they didn't understand it and they're basically happy with the current one kind of under the idea. It's it's not broken. Why do we need to fix it? Needs to be improved these to be up. But you know when you take your car to shop for tuna. You don't want them. Tell them we you know Allen I need to put in a whole new Egede you said Oh I just wanted to place. In this case we have a whole major overhaul. That was the problem So you mentioned as you were explaining The notice of proposed rulemaking the five percent deposit rule. I added that work with respect to these branchless banks and what was the origin of that proposal. Yes back in two thousand seventeen with some of the fintech banks began applying for charters. I commented on them in. These are banks like Robin Hood Up. Show of these Fintech I commented the FDIC THE OCC and also to Utah deify. My comments were not complaints. They were all supportive of the applications but only under the conditions that they followed the Sierra wrecks it had no exemptions from them and one of my recommendations to these agencies where that if they were going to get approval as a Fintech for a bank in charter they would have to have a requirement that when they take deposits from outside of their local market which would easily be Wilmington Salt Lake City or Sioux falls they would have a CRA obligation in those markets commensurate with the amount of deposits. They take out so for example in my hometown of Miami We have some very big internet banks. Advertise LOCALLY HERE FROM UTAH. They're in the paper all the time in the Miami. They have no branches here but they take out tens of billions of dollars and they use. Those Sierra gets to benefit Salt Lake City and they should be benefiting Miami Dade County because we have a major affordable housing problem here so the requirement was very simple if you take out five percent of deposits of your deposits come from Miami. Msa five percent of your Sierra benefits should go back should be invested. And this is what Senator Proxima wanted reinvestment of deposits that's the actually the middle name of CRA reinvestment and. That's what that five percent rule was about so Let me give you a hypothetical as the former Professor Warden This is fair game. So what happens can in a situation where you have a? Let's say a online bank Located in Sioux Falls South Dakota not a large city and the bank manages to take deposits all over the country but in no metropolitan statistical area. Does it receive five percent or more of its deposits. Let's say in Sioux Falls. It gets a one percent of deposits and all over the country and other metropolitan statistical areas. It's only getting. It's getting less than five percent. Everywhere does not have a crm obligation under my proposal. And basically what I put into these comments on these fintech charters was that they could then put those Sierra benefits anywhere in the country. The problem right now when they have to put all of it back in Sioux falls assessment area they are competing with other banks base their wells Fargo Citibank. All the big banks base there and it becomes what we call. Cra Hotspot and happens to be if you are a community bank there you can't compete with these giant banks so I would argue these texts. If they're under the five percent diminished role. They could then put their Sierra benefits anywhere in the country that could put him in Detroit. L. A. Chicago anywhere regardless of where the deposits come from because they've not met the five percent requirement but when they meet that requirement. That's an again. I'm Dan when I put on my bankers out. I consider that a number. We are a lot of rules in banking at the five and the ten percent threshold at five percent threshold. Then you have a crm obligation in that market. Okay all right now In connection with the CRA reform. I want to get to the outlook here. We're not really not close to the finish line. I know you've met with the contrel or the currency In his team Twice during the last year and this year through provide your input on Sierra reform you also as you mentioned submitted to comments on the AM PR and five comments on the NPR with the last one proposing what you're calling to seventy five percent solution optimal CRA REFORM CAN UTAH. What that's all about. And what do you think? The likelihood is a likelihood is of that gaining widespread acceptance. I had the opportunity I was invited twice by the comptroller to come to Washington. I met with them and found him to be a very fair person. Very much concerned about a communities are very much concerned about making CRA. Better and I explained to him. The situation as I've explained here on the podcast however realistically looking at the difference between now in one thousand nine hundred five in nineteen ninety five. The reform was basically involved with banks and community groups going back and forth against each other. Now it's much more. You've got basically community groups their powered on against the OCC because of this reform the the Fed obviously taken their own approach and most importantly the House Financial Services Committee They've been all over the OCC. This has become unfortunately more of a political know football than anything else and they. I explained to the comptroller that there needs to be a plan. B In effect my recommendation for Plan B. is very simple. We take the forty three largest banks which I consider very large banks. Those are banked with fifty billion in assets or more this forty three of them and we let them have a three year test run with the NPR. All of the other banks which ninety nine percent of the other banks in America they continue to operate under the current rules. We go for three years with this. These forty-three banks represent seventy five percent of all assets in America including by the way The big Branchless banks under the five percent rule. They go through three years. Which would do one exam cycle because it's about every three years after three years evaluated and safe it makes sense. We can apply to other banks over. Doesn't make sense than perhaps we either. Redo it or we go back to the status quo. The seventy five percents. Lucien has basically saying take this burden this regulatory burden and put it on the forty three biggest banks. They're the ones that can handle the easiest. Let all the other banks continue with the status quo. This should be something that the Aba the should accept because the big banks have the resources to do this. I've spoken for example with one of the top people at Bank of America. Actually seven counts and he told me they've got over thirty people working on the NPR. They actually Submitted a A comment so they've got the resources to do the NPR but most community banks don't banks under two three five ten billion. They really don't. They have to be focused on helping our communities in cra especially now with Kogo nineteen helping the recovery go along so if we could take Sierra off the table the seventy five percent solution would just leave it with the big banks and let the ninety nine percent of other banks focus on putting out P P P loans helping our communities. Because that's really the focus should be right now. Okay so We have an election Coming up in November And nobody knows. Obviously whether trump will be reelected or whether Joe Biden Will Win The election I I assume if trump gets reelected. Let's go to both scenarios. Let's assume can that trump gets reelected? Where's this thing ultimately wants to come to a head and ED will? The Federal Reserve ultimately joined with the comptroller in the FDIC. Or are they gonNA continue to go on their own direction? And then I wanna ask you the same question assuming that Joe Biden gets elected and the new comptroller of the currency We we ended up with a new comptroller. Who's more to the liking of the Democrats? Probably not somebody from the industry Or maybe might be from a bank in Delaware. Now I think about it but maybe not And New leadership at the Fed and also the FDIC so under either scenario whereas the thing Goin' assuming president trump is reelected. I see the comptroller. Continue to push this you know when there was even with Kobe. breakout their request to delay this another thirty days he gave thirty days more. The Con- appeared that while another sixty days. He wants to keep this moving along. Remember you know. Like like trump like MNUCHIN. He's a businessperson. They want to make things happen. They want to keep moving along. And he's pushing to get it done so with trump reelected assume that he's in place. I see this going into effect the way it is. Which could be very very quickly and obviously I see the Fed at that point. Remember the Fed only has fifteen percent of banks by number None of them They have really only four big banks over fifty billion retail banks. They've got a total of ten to six others are wholesale limited purpose strategic plan banks but they're smaller banks they continue under the status quo. It could be by for catered system which is unfortunate for bankers because that brings up a level playing field. Why should banks because they're just happened to be? Fed regulated those fifteen percent. Have an easier approach than those that are not that way but remember banks under five hundred million. I'm not saying we'll get a free pass. They still have some additional regulatory Data requirements. They're going to have it much easier than the intermediate banks. The banks between five hundred million Up to one point three billion those are the ones the former. Isp's have it very difficult? They I see a lot of these banks. The what we call the new large banks Gravitating toward the strategic plan concept which allows banks to do whatever they consider it almost a form of self-regulation. Alan cut like an open book test. Where you set your own rags you set your own rules. Which outstanding with a satisfactory should be and whereas for example only ten percent of banks get it outstanding rating. The number is more like a forty percent of banks strategic plans It's much a much easier. I believe and so I think we'll see a lot. Thanks a lot of banks go under strategic plans now to your second question. If trump is not reelected I see a lot of this died. The fact that the Fed has held off is probably anticipation of the fact that maybe if they keep Putting the ball kicking down the field by the time the election comes around. That may actually happen. Maybe that's why they're doing it. I don't know I I focus out. Cra Not Politics but obviously there would be a change in either with a A change in the composition of the Senate Gone Democrat dot could be huge. Because look what happened with. Maxine waters taken over house banking That could be huge so politics will play a very important part of it again. This was not a big issue. Back in Nineteen ninety-five. Five Sierra was a community reinvestment issue. Today it's heavily a unfortunately a political issue. Yeah okay Is there anything we've really come to the end of our show? Ken and but before we wrap it up I Just wanted to find out if there's any other points that you wanted to make that you haven't already made. Yeah I would say the the main point is if people are gonNA criticized the NPR and it's two hundred thirty eight pages in length. They really need to read it. I need to pick up somebody else's comment and just copycat it and just generally complained about it because there's a lot of good stuff in there actually a lot of good recommendations in their Their only been quite honestly of of the nineteen hundred fifty comments. I only take maybe a dozen of them seriously Because those are written by people that I respect a community group leaders. I respect people that I know really understand. Cra But just generally criticize them for example that five percent raw. There are a lot of people out there. Even recently Congressman from New York. Wrote a piece of the American banker saying that it's going to hurt local. A areas low monitoring areas in New York. It's quite the opposite that five percent rule. Let's Say New York City we get tens of billions of dollars tens of billions out of New York. Msa into these credit card banks and they're being in length and those three areas women's lives to falls and Salt Lake City under this five percent proposal. They're not going to put the money back to the rich people in New York not to Central Park. It's GonNa go to the low. Moderate income distressed areas of New York the areas that are suffering most from covered nineteen. Where are our first responders? Were policemen and firemen live. That's the air is never going to be helped. So it's almost like a Robin Hood proposal. Taking from the rich areas of New York and then reinvest in back into the poor low moderate income areas. That message never got a cost because so many people criticize it without really understand that it. So that's the main message. I would leave if you get to criticize the comptroller criticized. Yosi criticize the NPR. I take their time and understand it and read it before. Criticize it because there is a lot of good stuff in there. Okay well Thank you so much can For being our guest today and sharing your Thoughts on Of extremely important topic Important to the banking industry important to communities Really important to anyone who Is Deals with banks Let me ask you just one other thing. It just occurred to me that we didn't cover Dec- are a only covers depository institutions. How come it doesn't cover non-banks what am I first recommendations and actually both books and I told the contract over the net with actually. He invited me back third time in March because of covert. We couldn't do it. The number one thing on my list is always been. Cra for credit unions and of course any type of depository that takes Fdic federally insured or any type of federally insured deposit so look at the State of Massachusetts. They have a cra not just for banks and thrifts but for credit unions and even warriors bankers mortgage banks and if you look at their results that I just got one in today. Some credit unions do an outstanding job in Massachusetts. Some do an average of seventy four job. That's the reason why we need. Cra for credit unions and also for Finn Tech's and for anyone involved in the financial sector. That's my concern if you WANNA get into banking and have a bank in Charter. And he wants to have the benefits of federally insured. Deposits and all the other benefits we provide through treasury too big to fail everything else. That's kind of like a tax if you will a price you have to pay CRA. And that's how I was taught this for senator proxy fire. I believe my goal has always been to try. I think about how Senator Meyer would do this. And this is how I think he would want it. That Sierra should be applied to these other institutions as long as they're taken insured deposits But that's the key as long as they're taking insured deposits if they're not taking insured deposits but They get there are funded through other sources commercial paper or debt debt securities that are register with the SCC. Then I take it. You do not think. Cra should apply at that point. It would depend on individual cases so for example take quicken loans. One of the biggest deal of all the state of Massachusetts actually did a rating them and they had an issue they followed in order they got it worked out. I mean if I'm GonNa take a mortgage my first place I'll go is going to be quicken loans. There's no doubt but they don't have a FDIC insured things however they have other regulations that cover them so as long as the other regulations that covered them CFP and other consumer protection regulations are in effect. I would say those should be sufficient. Also they should be fair lending regulations as well covering them as long as they have other consumer protection regulations in effect across the board. That would be fine but I basically would focus on anything with the depository. That's why I was so concerned with Fedex got it okay Well can again thank you for being our guest today I WanNa thank all of our listeners. Who have downloaded the podcast today. I'm remind you to visit our website. Www DOT BALLARD SPAHR DOT com. Where you can subscribe to our podcast show. Also you can subscribe on Apple podcast. Google play spotify or whatever. Your favorite podcasts platform made beat And don't forget to check out our blog also call consumer finance monitor for daily insights of the consumer finance industry. And if you have any questions or suggestions for our show please email us at podcast at Ballard SPAHR DOT com and stay tuned each Thursday for a new episode of our shop. Thank you again.
2 Long-Distance Rentals with $0 Down with Tony Robinson
"This is the real estate rookie show number ten. I'm great my deputy job Brad and I climb the corporate ladder and you know I'm I'm just killing it right once. I'm gone once I'm gone right. I can't pass that on to. My family prayed with real estate. I can can build this empire I can. I can have this machine once I'm gone. I know that that's going to keep giving giving and giving some my family. And that's arm to the Big Ten am actually care and I am here with the assistant to host May and his little Hula Dancer and his microphone off. That's right I got my Hula Hula. Man here But yeah finally ten episodes. Wow I can't believe we've made it this far people like us. I love it. Yes thank you. Everyone and we love the facebook group it is growing growing everyday. We're almost a six thousand. I believe yeah though today we have Tony Robinson on the show me actually recorded this. Previously before Corona virus happened and we reached out to Tony but not a lot has changed for him kind of the same as Mallory and Lucas on episode eight. They said not a lot of change for them. Either though Tony Hawkes about the deal that he rehabbed rented out and so far has tenant has been able to pay rent and then he told us when we talked to him that he was undergoing a Rehab. Right now finished it ready to rent. But he can't find anyone to run in and he's considering dropping the price. So what do you think about that bleep? Anglo would be your strategy. Yeah I think it's a good strategy. I think that tells a lot about him. I always told my friends and family that if we have to lower the rent to get people in the rooms in the house is then that's fine a drop my ego rent the place out. We got to have some cash coming in. It's better to do that than have nothing coming in right. Have an vacant. Property is like the worst thing you can do. So yeah absolutely you know. Get someone in there you have to lower the rent and then I like that. He said that one thing that he is changing is he used to only look for three bedrooms but now he's going to also look for two bedroom homes but the lot has to be big enough for him to add that third bedroom so really smart of him and then also considering section eight property. So I think it's really good and it says a lot about who he is in the show. He also talks about some of the things that he's had to overcome things that happened in his past when he was inspiring super inspiring. And things that you know even going on now so I think he's got the grit. I think Tony is going to be really good in real estate. You guys are going to be a great show. I can't wait to get into it. Let's bring Tony on the show. Hi Tony Welcome to the show. Thank you guys excited to be here. Tony Thank you so much for joining us man. Hey really excited to get into your show was reading a little bit about your bio and all that fun stuff. I think we have a ton of information to cover. So let's just dive in man. Tell us a little bit about yourself. First of all when I'm not working in real estate a family man I So I'm engaged to my high school sweetheart married this year and our Capo San Lucas Malvo. Twelve year old son. So you know when I'm not doing real estate thing that's hiccup. It's out of my time and I know we'll get into it later. But they're big part of the reason why I'm driving so hard for this when I'm out with them at work. I gotTA WC job. I work in supply chain for An Automotive Automotive Company Ask Us from doing folks. No real sir. Good that's awesome. What is your portfolio? Look like now Tony. I mean what what what are you have and kind of give us a thirty thousand fifty. Well of gotTa sure To single family homes both in Shreveport Louisiana. I live in seven California so it's a few states away but I'm really focusing now on trying to go to the large multifamily space so that was kind of my goal. Early on was to get into larger Apartment complexes but too afraid to start their wanted to kind of pick up. Something smaller I so I kind of cut my teeth on the single family houses down now trying to level up a little bit so an estate investor interest tank one. So what made you decide to do that? Living in California. It's almost mandatory right for someone's trying to get started the numbers. Just don't make a whole ton of sense especially in single family space so I knew I needed to go somewhere where my dollar was such a little bit further and my parents my mom and my Stepdad. They actually retired to this little town in Louisiana called Shreveport and they bought a house out there for thirty thousand dollars it had been vacant for a few years The put another thirty thousand into it for the Rehab. And the House appraised for about one hundred thousand dollars on Fallon and they've funded one hundred percent of the purchasing the Rehab with the local bank out there as once. I saw that I was like okay. Well here's here's starting. This is where I'm going with that that's right. That's amazing that's interesting and I can't wait to get into that. 'cause I want to hear more about the two properties out of state? I mean those are your first. That's wild it's going to be a great story before we get into that though earlier. You said they are my y you. Let's dig into that a little bit. your family's your. Y So we'd love to hear that story man what's going on here absolutely and so you know. I'm unlike most parents I kinda had I. I got started parenting early. I was sixteen when my son was born so I was a junior in high school and you know becoming apparent at that age at any age but obviously at that age it really has a big impact on kind of how the rest of your life flows so unlike most kids when they're in college and they're kind of partying and doing the thing like I always had this very clear focus and goal there driving me right in and it was my son. Who is my family? So it athletic. It helped me develop a certain level of grit and determination. I think a lot of people don't get until later in life and in it's it's Kinda pay dividends but having my family there and knowing that I wanna be able to drop my son off at school and pick them up and no fiance and I want to go out and and We don't have to worry about. Pto or time or anything like that so really. What's driving me? Just being able to spend time with them. He present for them and make sure the financially. We're always take care of interesting. And if if I can dig into that a little bit more. What helped you choose real estate as that avenue rather than every anything else. Right like what? Why why did you pick real estate versus starting a business or doing anything else? Yeah I will say that. I've I've tried things right. He wasn't a wasn't the first name man like in college. I actually had like a tutoring business. Right where a mobile tutoring business where? I had like three or four other tutors working for me. I've tried. I've tried so many different things right but my dad is actually the guy that that I can get the credit for giving me the real estate bug. When I was in high school. He made me read Richdad Board at and it always kind of stuck with me and I knew that at some point I wanted to get into real estate right just because it's such a such a strong vehicle but if we take that back when we look at what's going on in the market right now with the the corona virus right the stock market's going rat. Stock prices are plummeting all over the place with the companies are doing and their performance in any different than before current. A bias right. There's not a lot of influence. You can have as an investor in the stock market so the lack of control kind of pulled me away from the stock market but when I look at real estate I know that if I buy right and I invested my money into this property smartly that I'm going to get a certain level of return and I think that level of control knowing that I'm the person that the dictates how successful this investment is. That's what really pulled me into real estate. Great Answer Great Answer. That's solid advice for anyone who is in the same situation. They need to listen to that part. Just because it like. You said it's something that you have control over and you're able to help you can control that for your family and resonates with me. I have a two year old so I know your sons probably a little older than that. Now I have a year old and real estate is giving me the freedom to be able to spend the time that I want with him and if I don't absolutely right the other thing is if say that I'm I'm great at my deputy job right and climb the corporate ladder and and I'm just killing it right. Come on I'm gone once I'm gone right. Pass that on to my family. Bright BUT WITH REAL ESTATE. I can build this empire I can. I can have this machine once. I'm gone I know that that's going to keep giving giving giving my family. And and that's that's a big piece form to gold love that they're so. Do you WanNa start telling us a little bit more about. So you found the Louisiana market and nine. Take us to the next stop. You're like okay. What my parents did. I wanted to do that. What did you do? Did you contact the realtor? How did that go you absolutely? So it kind of happened in two phases rats in my first rental properties I bought last year in two thousand nineteen but initially kind of started on this journey in twenty seventeen so I kind of started stopped backups. I'll I'll take you back to twenty seventeen really briefly. The first thing I did was connect with the bank right ahead. My parents told me. Hey who the heck gave. Amazing loan randomness this real. Can It happen again? So I reached that bank got in contact with them and this is a small regional bank by. This isn't being America. This isn't you know wells Fargo. This is Home Federal Bank in Shreveport and they have three branches out there right and you know for the listeners. That's that's like a golden spots. Be Right like if I have an issue with my loans. I don't call one eight hundred number. I text the VP of the mortgage division at this bank so anyway built out relation with her. I let her know what I was looking for. And she said Short. This is a loan program that we offer if you can and there are some requirements right like you have to rehab and the purchase needs to be at about seventy two percent of the are and she's like as long as you can do that. We'll find one hundred percent of it so once I had the you know kind of the guidelines in place. Let's go find the deal. Luckily the person at the bank had a good relationship with a realtor So she put me in contact shooter from people and I just kind of organ from there right now back in two thousand seventeen. When I first started actually found a deal it was great. It was a short sale. It was way way under price. It was wearing the price I submitted my offer the accepted. And then it's got a kind of work. Its way through the approvals and all that because it was short so long story short there was a miscommunication between the listing agent and my agent were the listing agent reached out to my agent supposedly said. Hey Bank is accepted. We need a response within twenty four hours my agency. He never got communication out of losing. The property goes to auction. Wow Yeah so I was. I was I was super steal my first deal right. I'm like I'm like this close right. I'm taking a break right and I led about two years. Go by and you know how some things going on personal life. I and by my personal residence in California under getting engaged. So there's all these other things happening and then again. Last year I kind of things have settled down a little bit like okay. I think I think now time for me to get started with respect that same bank I say. Hey It's me again. Remember me look still have that. Same Loan Program I connect with the new realtor. And I I'm really just kinda hitting the ground running and I think the fact that I lost deal early on it kind of showed me that. Hey you're every is not going to go right from the beginning rabbit but you can't let it discouraged so I think I went in with a different perspective and I really narrowed in one specific zip code. I think before I was just kind of all over the place and you know trying to find anything but I said Hey. Let me let me focus on this one zip code and evaluate doing that that I knew like the back of my hand right I. I knew I knew what you know. What the properties look like what they were for a new like the approximate Rehab but. I should be doing so. I really doubt in on one specific. Zip Code everyone listening to that tip because that can be so important you zone in on one market and do your research and know that market. It's like people are looking at you know five different cities in different states. And oh I you know. I'm looking at these ones right now. Hold on one. Do Your Market Study of not going to work. Then go on to the next one but when you look at all these different places like you said you're not gonNA know at like the back of your hand and that's definitely going to help you when you run your numbers you're going to be able to do deal analysis faster and because I don't know about Louisiana but for me at least when I want to put an offer in pretty much has to be that day and I don't have time to go and do a lot of research once I find the deal and to piggyback off of that. Actually all my runner properties are within five miles of each other. All because I know that area like the back of my hand so the moment something comes to dinner to mark in that within that little circle that I have. It's like automatic putting an offer but if you tell me like twenty minutes down the road I've known what you're talking. I'm like Nope I got I can. There's five hundred homes that I can buy within miles know buying them all so yeah just piggyback. That's exactly right and know your market. That's key in Tony. What made you pick that specific area code was it because it had a good school district. What were the specific things that you liked about that ZIP code? The that's a really good question so shreveport as a city right. It's the third biggest metro in Louisiana after New Orleans and Baton Rouge. It's you know it's not a big market but it's not a small town either and I say that because it was different pockets in that city where you can go to some pockets. Where there's you know there's gang violence and prostitution and there's no all the things that come with like a war zone neighborhood on there's others that are working class. What I wanted to do was trying to find that sweet spot right. Like where's where's the or. Is it good kind of blue collar working neighborhood where the prices are competitive right under that? I can turn a profit but I also don't want to be in a neighborhood where it's going to be very management insensitive policy of of tenant. Maybe as isn't quite there and I also wanted to make sure because I was out of state that I was investing in an area where the property managers would be able to support it right so I'd reach out to a bunch of property managers and I chose the one that I wanted so as I was kind of narrowed down on my market. I I asked him. I was like invest in urge you manage in this area and he said no art. I'm what about this area? So it was kind of a a working relationship with him and he can pointed me in the right direction. Say for you. You know Tony. I'm starting to see a trend and we haven't even got to the deal that we're going to talk about it but I'm starting to see a trend almost like in your life since back when you were sixteen where you had a baby early in your life but you overcame that in a positive way and then you lost your first deal in real estate and now it seems like you've overcome that in a positive way so it seems to be like there's some grit in your life and I think that's why you're probably going to be very successful. Because you're overcoming these obstacles and as rookie investors that are listening to the show. Hone in on that. Take Take Pride in. Hey it's okay to make a mistake. Let's get through that right. Let's get past that you lost your deal. You took ownership let's go. Let's get the very next property and you're making it works. I see that success in your life because you have that. I'm going to do this for my family mentality right. What's that I know? There's a quote. There's somewhere where it's like if you do it for yourself. You're going to fail but if you find a why you're going to succeed so you just find your y. And if I can add onto that fluky I'm a big mindset guy right like you know the the real estate piece right. It's like twenty percent mechanics. Eighty percent mentality right so I'm super big piece and I can't remember where I heard. That might have been branding turnaround. I know someone set this. But it's like people have a tendency to get to give up when things get hard right. They just want to give up. And someone that someone phrase it as. How many chances do you give a baby to walk before you give up there? There's no upper limit. Ride the baby falls you pick them back up and you hold the figure it out and I've I've just really tried to hold that cinnamon salad with everything that I do. It's like I know for certain I'm going to fail at some point and that's totally okay. Because of failure where I learned the fares were I get better. And that's the whole purpose of that. I deal specifically is to learn so I went into it with that. Mindset the power of failing. But I'll tell you what it's GonNa make you a better investor too because uh absolutely absolutely right and you know you guys. I'm sure know this as well right but the first deal I have podcast and I've interviewed dozens of people in not one person that I met or that I've interviewed has gotten rich up. I do not a single person right. That's not the purpose. The purpose of that first year. The purpose of that I you as an investor is to learn is to educate yourself is to give you the foundation to continue building business that first property hits different man. It's a learning experience that I remember my first property and I still use some of the tactics that I learned from it going forward. So that's a great story Tony by the way. Let's move onto the next section Tony. Let's figure out and let's talk about a deal and let's dive deep into that. Do you have one in mind. Yeah absolutely about that. I because it's a great one awesome. So let's talk about that. One gives us the rundown how you found it financed it. Get THE NITTY-GRITTY OUT. Get the details. You know our listeners are GonNa want absolutely so in terms of finding the deal. It was on the the market that I mean. It's not a super heavy like investor market. There's a lot of good deal. Mls out there so found on the MLS sold my my rotator put in an offer and they accepted pretty quickly. I bought the property for one hundred thousand dollars. Budget fifty thousand dollars for the Rehab took about three months for three and a half months or so And Right now. It's currently rented for fourteen fifty. How did you find your contractors for the Doing? You know a big rehab like that. It was all relationship-building like I knew. Be Not a state that I was going to be able to manage that in any capacity and my realtor and my bank both suggested and referred the same contract so the fact that it's coming from two different people there. There's gotta be something good they're so referrals. Yeah fear because you're out of state and hiring a certain beano professional do the worker just because everyone was pointing to that person. And how did you get over that home? Was there any fear I mean? I think there's always a little bit of fear who I find that first rental property but the way that I frame it is I work in supply. Chain my wt job. I know nothing construction so I'm not going to be able to provide a ton of value. Unify was there. If I was in that same I can't provide it's own about you so the fact that I can surround myself with people that you this for a living I mean I. It took away a lot of after because he had this guy's a professional what he does every single day. And this is a learning experience for me so I can learn from him and figure out how to do this. You know the next time. That is a great point. I I liked. That is even if you were there. You wouldn't add much value anyways because you know you wouldn't be. You could stop maybe at the property and see how the Rehab is going but now or property managers. They'll go and do the video. Walk throughs for you. So you don't need to be there. But they're swing a hammer. Tamp facetime the contractor in economy. Show me around every couple of weeks just updated and then that was good for me was the what was the outcome of that property whereas at now. How's it doing? Yeah so there's actually a story behind that right so we purchased the property and I want to say it's a couple of weeks ago. Rehab started because the contractor is working on another another project so it took about three and a half to get the rehab finish now when I initially underwrote the property. Underwriting the deal I had fifteen hundred dollars per month is the the rent that I was started by after like I could confidently get this number. And how did you find that number just looking at the market right up? I was kind of looking around and said this. This seems like a good number based on rentals that are comparable to what what it is is. That were listed on different websites. Okay so you know looking at Zillow and I was like zillow feed right like I was just on Zillow's every single day just you know what's the rental market Sa- Fifteen hundred dollars was my number and wants the Rehab finished. We pass the keys over from the contractor to the property manager and I said Hey. I'm thinking of listening at fifteen hundred dollars where your thoughts and they said we think we can go higher. We think we can sixteen hundred dollars. So I'm like okay. You know these guys are the experts you know. They know the market better than I do. Let's listen sixteen hundred dollars so we listed on six for two weeks and nothing and sits Acid Hey I'm freaking out a little bit right of weeks. Now happen so we drop down to a fifteen. Seventy five weeks goes by nothing. I'm going I think were little so it ends up going for. I wanted to say was eight weeks that the property sat on the market. Now guess what we we dropped from sixteen hundred to fifteen seventy five to fifteen fifty to fifteen hundred and Annette finding in rented at fourteen fifty now. The the lesson that I learned from that is the property managers. There are the experts and I definitely WANNA lean on their expertise but I knew my heart could fifteen hundred dollars was the number but I still leaned on them at at the sixteen hundred. I think had just stuck with my good. Initially it went a sat. As long as there's a there's a big lesson Martin bear from me as well. You know. I've I've had that feeling before as well and I feel like I can't remember a time where listening to someone else versus my gut. When the right way listening to that that that spirit feeling if you will has always yielded me the best return and I can almost say that if you left it at that original number that fifteen hundred you probably would've got fifteen hundred right sitting on the market. I bet people are like he's GonNa keep going down so much wrong with you know so and that's an important lesson right there that even though you were a brand new investor it doesn't mean that you're wrong or you don't know movies people. The property managers. Yes they have experienced but sometimes just have to trust your gut and like you said you did your market research. You looked at. Those comparable runs a property manager. Sorry the real quick there also incentivized to have a higher right ops the. Im too but they're not as negatively impacted by vacancy right. But for me that means I had to make another mortgage payment where the property were sitting empty right. So there's some give and take there for sure. Let's talk a little bit about the Rehab. How did that go? Was it smooth sailing? Did you hit all your numbers all your timelines. But did you just crush the job? Was it the. That's not how it went. There is some good things that I learned. There was in bad things that happen as well. I think the the biggest thing that I learned are. Let me take a step back. The biggest problem was that there was. There was lack of clarity on what the Rehab was going to cost. Okay so again I. I didn't spend any money out of pocket for the Rehab Right at the the bank. Funded one hundred percent of that. But as I was working with the bank trying to get the funding secured we'd given them multiple bids on on the Rehab portion where we had one bid at forty thousand and we got a second bit of fifty thousand and you know that was me working with the contractor and figure out what we wanted to do. I was under the impression the WH when we entered into the into the loan that we were operating under the forty thousand dollar bid once we get to the end of the end of the loan right and and the Rehab is done. I realize that had gone up to the fifty thousand dollar bit and this is without me realizing that right so confusing right so the the that the loan payouts work is that I. I'm not involved at all right. All the contractor has to do is go to go to the bank and show them. Hey here's the work that I did. And then they get their their withdrawal construction loan when you build a new house. They get their draws okay right but I wasn't involved in the draw process all right so the bid that I saw. I thought that the work was being done was gonNA was only going to be forty thousand and fifty thousand dollars so that was a that was learning experience from either there needs to be some clarity in a tattered communication between me the contractor and the bank about. Hey which bitter we actually going to use because you know the goal is to refinance its property but now I'm ten thousand dollars higher than what? I was arguing for us though. I was something something that I learned but some other issues that we saw with Rehab was that it took longer than expected right. And that's never I investors problem. I think the first thing that I would have done is I would oppress the contractor to get started sooner. Rather property sat empty for a few weeks while he was finishing up some of their job and it would have been like. Hey we you know I. I can't sit that long next time. I gotTA start as soon as I get the keys. That was a inform us. Well outside of those two things. There weren't any other really really big issues for me interesting. Tony because the the ten thousand dollars over is new to me. So I've here in Tennessee. The investor and the contractor have to sign off for him to go get it withdrawal. It's not like he can just go drawl without my consent. So That's interesting. I didn't know that that that that wasn't allowed. I wonder what regulations are there to stop them from just going and getting more. Draw without your permission. I mean that seems really open. They're still the so the way that it's structured is the bank says. Here's the money for the purchase right in. That's that's cut on day one. And then here's the money leftover four delone. Right on the loan got funded. I was under the I was under the assumption of that there were some cushioning therefore contingencies and things like that but they had the number was so high because that was actually with the whole bid was so there's no sign off on the loan or anything for the contract get their withdrawal because I sign all those doctrines at the beginning. Was there a limit on how much he could withdrawal? There was. Yeah there was. There was an upper limit. They're trying to get to that so so there are some lessons. I think honestly wasn't him trying to be manipulative and anyway there is there? Is this honestly? He thought this is the associate working under so really on me for not not driving that impudence Tony. Can you just explain to everyone what a draw is like? How does that work with the financing? You're getting yeah absolutely so the bank has a copy of the bid contractor. Gave me right in all the work that he's supposed to be doing and it's kind of broken up into sections. I WANNA before draws for this specific loan so the contractor Reduced Fourth of the bid. They go to the bank and say. Here's the work that I did. The banks some send someone out to kind of review that everything's good and they get their draw and then it just keeps working that winds. They've completed job okay. So it's kind of like a line of credit. The bank has this money set up for you and then the contractor will go and you know. They did ten thousand dollars worth of work. They'll take that draw the money and then until the project is done and they've drawn out the full amount of the rehab cost. Is that correct? Okay Cool Tony. How would you do that? That specific part differently for our listeners. What is the nugget that you took from that? And what have you implemented going forward? Yeah so I think the first thing is making sure that no draws happened without my knowledge right I I can be tied into that process. Everything's how it's supposed to be and then the second thing is like it's totally on me right because the fact that I was facetime in the contractor and seeing the work that was being done and it never clicked to me like. Hey this is more than what I thought it was going to be right. It's because I didn't. I didn't take enough time to really dive that bid to no you know no backwards and forth and say. Here's what's supposed to be done so I really make sure now that I've got a really solid understanding of that bid and what were agreeing on to make sure that as checking that everything's lining up but like Flea Bay I. I was just so excited to get that I was like let's go. Let's go let's go. I didn't I didn't even really take the time to to pay close attention everyday. Do you do you care to show or to share the numbers after you re. Did you refi out what you wanted? Did it work out for you in the end? Yeah so it was a construction loan and they had like a really tight timeline on it. I think I could only have that construction on for like four months so as soon as a construction finished. I refinance do a permanent loan. I didn't pull any cash out. Just left it just straight to pay off the construction loan but my plan is to refinance and try and pull some equity out Six months from now so. You did that with the same bank that you did. The construction loan the purchase Rehab with and then once that loan is done it's completed you just rolled it over to the with the bank. Okay you're one of the things that that I do in another show isn't about me but let me let me give you some where the vice that I do with my because I pride myself on how well I handle my contractors. One of the things that I do is while we're doing the walkthrough and they're giving me scope of work. We identify where thirty three and a third percent of the job is and once he reaches that scale he can do a draw so now. I don't actually have to go to the bank when he wants to do a draw but my bank knows that at this point. Let's say drywall up. Everything's muttered and sanded. That's thirty three to thirty can go receive that amount of right so we structure that prior to even signing a contract. It's like hey but these are the three times. You'RE GONNA get paid. There's no advances. There's no material advance. There's none of this. You get paid after thirty three and a third percent of the job is done and then I will see basically at the very end I get pictures every now and then I go down to the job. But that way there's a structure in place right. God I love that. I'm I I got. Ask about toolkit man. That's a good one. That has been a very common question and our facebook group is how to handle contractors during Rehab so. I'm glad you jumped into that. Fleet Bay no you absolutely and then Tony. I'm assuming now you have it rented out. It's doing great Kinda give us what's what's going on with it live today. Yeah yeah so I have a military family in. They're actually signing a two year lease and I was a little hesitant assignments you at least at first because I was like that kind of limits my ability to to raise the rents but it kind of comes back to knowing your market by Shreveport is not really an appreciating a or a or quickly appreciating market right. Rinse don't move up like in California when I was renting a minute. We'll go up like fifty dollars every year right and shreveport. It'll stay flat right so I was talking with the property manager said. Hey you're probably not going to see a big bump even if you only have one you're Lisa if you can lock them in for two years. It makes more sense for you so ray family. They're in the military you know. They're they're really good people so it's going pretty well right now for a two year lease did you give them a discount at all or it's just the flat rate for both two years. No Yup decrease if the whole two years eight asked for it but I said hey marty kind of coming down for what I was targeting Santa Bozo. It worked for both of us. I love this kind of properties. Actually Tony I love the idea of just flat not sexy cash flow every single month like to me. That's safe right two years. Guaranteed if I could get two year leases on every single one of my properties. I'd be in Bora Bora weeks. It's it's not having to worry about getting new tenants gut feeling that you had where you're like. Oh my gosh. I don't have tenants for three months. That affects your cash. Affects your bottom line. And that's the biggest biggest expense right is the vacancy. So if you can do anything to minimize that it's eliminated than than a mix ten cents and Tony. I don't know if you set already. What kind of house is this? A single family. How many bedrooms bathrooms are just dove right in? I love the numbers by a single family. Home it's A. It's a three bedroom two bath. This was it was built like a nineteen fifty something and You know a lady had owned it passed away. Unfortunately so her her kids. It inherited the home. It had not been up dated since the home was built. There is light pink tile and like this really weird carpet and it was it. Was you know exactly what you think of? Nineteen fifty. Sarah. You know we. We went and we pretty much got at the whole House. Or it's it's beautiful now. We have three bedrooms two baths grade neighborhood okay. So now that you've got the people in there I just want to like go over the numbers again and put it all together so your your purchase price was one hundred thousand. Your Rehab was fifty thousand and then did it appraised for two hundred and thirty thousand dollars. Yeah Okay Urn for your rent was thirteen fifty or fourteen fifty fourteen fifty. Okay and so. What's your cash? Well that's what we all want to know. I didn't want to be the one to ask the mortgage payment With with with taxes and everything. It's about eight hundred dollars. That's the guy and then since the since the house is is pretty much brand new. I'm buzzing a little bit for maintenance but I'm sure I wouldn't put a whole lot in too because you know it's all new and then at the property. Management is another one hundred dollars a month. So I'm conservatively saying about dollars in cash flow but is probably a little bit more. Because I won't be as much set aside for expenses now for property management. Is that a flat fee. Or a percentage you're paying the percentage but they cap it at one hundred dollars okay so it actually works out really well so yeah. It's a flat one hundred dollars for this property. So as you add more properties are you going to negotiate with them to say. Hey I'm going to plan on bringing you guys X. amount of doors. Can we negotiate that price? Everything's negotiable and year. That's the goal. They're they're really solid company And I told him when I met them. So I flew out there to Louisiana and when when I met them in person I said. Hey this is the first property but this it's the first of many right and this is the goal here is. We have a long-term growing relationship and I set that tone from Philippi had to say. Hey It's not the one house but it's you know twentieth fifty and there were open to you that start building that relationship. Yeah that's that's exactly right you you keep that open line of communication you express your goals to them and it even keeps you accountable right to like. I need to get more property. Some telling people that that's what I'm GonNa do so it kind of keeps you going right for our listeners. There Tony can you give us a an explanation of how if I bought you coffee and I said Hey tony when by coffee man. Can you give me four five steps to get a property just like yours? How would you explain that I could they do that here? That is a great question. I think the first thing I would say is don't over think right but like that's the thing that gets people caught up as they get stuck in this analysis paralysis where they want to hit all these specific numbers. And everything's gotTa lineup perfectly. But it's never going to happen that way right at least in the first year. I haven't met anyone that at the perfect I e something always goes a little rock break so I think that's the first thing I would say is don't over. Think it expect to make some mistakes right at the mindset is where you gotta start. I expect to make some mistakes and from there. It's really just finding market that you're comfortable and start building your team really get to know that market intimately and then start putting in offers right but it's really really that simple thing that are always say is that real estate is not a complicated business. It really is like the actual steps. That people need to take the clothes in that I feel is. It's not all that hard. Not all that complicated but what it isn't is that it isn't easy right. It is hard it does take a lot of work to do those things but the actual substantive they're not that complicated a Philippi I'd say get your mindset right. I right going to go into the right perspective. Then find your market build your team and get the deal so now you got your first party there you know that market and you have to properties correct so you bought your second property now. What's what's the goal for the future. What does that look like? Are you saying you know one a month or so? I actually bought those two wide relatively close to each other so I wanted to kind of get those both finish before to the next one. I'm going to continue investing in Shreveport on the single family side just because the Lome Product is so attractive right like I want milk that as much as I can but when I started investing real estate I knew that my goal was to get into larger multifamily complexes I read a book by Joe. Fareless a camera with that was gone. It was like the best apartments indication book and he said before you can. Invest are successfully invest in apartments. You need a track record right and Mike. I didn't have one but I didn't have never bought anything before so I said Hey. Let me start building that track record. Let me get a few single family homes. Just kind of you know build my knowledge and build my credibility And then from there I'll scale up so a medical right. Now keep keep kind of milking the cash cow that I have easy and our bird Scale up to your start binds properties. That's interesting because for me Tony I. I just stuck too boring normal. I just like the process that you about one and then to. I just didn't stop. I just going just about seven and then number eight okay. This six hundred dollars. A month seems nice. I'm just going to keep doing this boring just like you said. I think people overcomplicate real estate. Sometimes they like get into this analysis paralysis and I knew business cars I need. Llc's and I need the right lawyer. And I need my team and then three years went by and you didn't do anything and the prices are twice as high if you would have just bought a rental property figured it out. It's GonNa be OK guys. It's okay to get a lot of these things in place you know it's important but there's nothing more important than buying that property like get involved getting the game right and that's the biggest thing that just get off the sidelines. Right and everything else will work itself in. You know it'll work itself out exactly. Yeah I loved your story about how you did this deal and I you're giving such great mindset tips to and I mean it seems like you're everything you've learned and everything is part of. It is adding so much value to you but I wanNA know. Is there a specific person? That has really been a key player in getting you this I deal and we call this segment the MVP MVP man a key person. Gosh let me think on that right there. There's so many different people that I interacted with to to actually get that I deal done but I would probably say my dad right in him giving me that. Rich Dad Poor Dad book back when I was like you know fifteen fourteen years old because that's what planet to see the that's planted the seed for me right and I think had I not read that book as a teenager. I never would have found bigger pockets and I never would have found all these other resources that helped me get that. I deal so everyone else was only in my life because of that decision that my dad is a preacher Marilyn and how soon is it going to be before your son gets that gift that book? I guess I very so. I haven't given him the book yet but we play the cash flow game so we concepts. Yeah so he loves it. Sounded this stuff for you guys in the show notes and bigger pockets dot com forward slash Ricky Tan but yeah that will link the cash flow game and the Rich Dad. Poor Dad book because those are great resources. And it's a very. Have you listened to other real estate podcasts? Were they ask like Brandon? David's PODCASTS. They ask. What's your favorite book? Rich Dad Poor Dad is a very common answer. The the reason why people got started her thought about real estate McClure Lurie. Okay so we hear that answer all the time rich down Florida what was your biggest takeaway from rich. That for your money should be working harder than you all the time right. Money is the absolute best employees that you can have and smart. Wealthy people have found a way to put their money to work right whereas the average American they work they spend all their money on liabilities. Were as rich people they work. They spend all their money on assets which which increase their cash. La Okay Great. I want to ask real quick to about so the bank that you're using would Alone officer you'd be a good. Mvp for someone Going forward because you've I thought you were GonNa say something about the bank going because you know they really did have such agree package for you and it seems like it's going well if you keep working with them do you think a loan officer could be someone's MVP. Absolutely right. And I think for people that are in the single family space going to Bank of America doesn't make a whole ton of sense investor. I would honestly I would rather have a relationship wreck. Call that person and have a real dialogue and they know me and I know their kids and they know my family right like that relationship is so much more valuable. Yeah I I read as a new investor. Someone who's trying to get started building a relationship with that small regional bank is critical. I agree I I know my loan officer pretty well in. I love that we can have honest and real conversations where she come in. She gives me a hug. I mean I know her personally and I get to shout out to Regina here at Franklin paint in Nashville. She is amazing busy. Take that part of you know. It's great relationship building. I didn't know the importance of that until I got started in real estate. And how crucial that was to to not always look for. What can I get out of a person? But what value can I add to them? And that's GonNa keep me in their mind at all times especially when when I do need something right. Don't just reach out to people when you need something. Add value to them and then when you are in need of some help you know they're gonna be like man this per. I want to give back to this person. Person has been great for me. Yeah and if I can add ons about like for people that want invest out of state fly out there. You have to go meet people in person. It's one thing to exchange emails and phone calls but it's actually garage like you said that To share a hug writer to to share a meal like those are the things that really allow you to build that connection build our relationship so that as you further that relationship you guys have a really really solid foundation. Okay so I'm GonNa make you. Mvp of this show now. We call this the rookie request line and you are going to answer a question for a rookie. So if anyone would like to call in any time you can call one eight eight eight five rookie and leave a voicemail for us and just ask a question and we might play it on an episode so this week we have a question from hi. My name is John. I'm from Buffalo New York and I'm looking to invest out of state and I wanted to know what is the best way to get boots on the ground in that area? Do I heard a realtor. A property management company or trying to find a local investor in that area. Thanks bye. That's a great question. I think if you have someone that's family writer. That's you know that you have a personal relationship with. That's a great place to start and assume that they're interested in real estate. You can work something out but if not I mean. Yeah all those who that they listed right. The the property managers is huge. The realtor is huge discard. There are building those relationships because all of those people are willing to work with you and kind of be part of your team. Even though we're paying them they can still be part of your team right. I think sometimes you forget that when I think about building their team they think about goose on the ground is someone that they have a relationship with your property manager. Realtor can play that role as well. Okay Yeah Great and actually. We've loved the advice that you have that we are giving you two questions a little bonus round here. Perfect hi there. Rookie World My name is Tony. I'm having a dilemma. Currently I have a job. It don't really love but I mean these money don't necessarily see myself there forever anyway. If I were to quit how can I use that time but still also get lending? My wife has a job also we could use her income but we really really want to just be able to do it. Current name and my name if we were to do it on on our on our own man. That's a that's a heavy question I mean for me. I don't think that I'm going to try to answer from from my perspective. I don't think that I would quit my job or I think at that point. You put a little bit too much pressure on yourself to start generating income and I think that pressure can lead to poor business decisions. I think the thing I would do is use that fuel of me. Not Enjoying my job to drive to work even harder. My real estate business. I think I would challenge Tony on the the fact that he doesn't have time right like you know. I have a w job right and I have an organization of over five hundred people that I lead spread out across the nation. I'm working non-stop Abba family. I have my own podcast. Put out three episodes a week. I'm investing in real so I think I would challenge his notion that he doesn't have enough time right like Tony. How much how much TV are you watching right? How much time would you do? Instagram and facebook. So you know we. We all have the same twenty four hours right away. Musk's running like four different companies right now and he still finds a way to to to get it all done right so. I think we can do that so tony. My advice to you is find a way to to manage your time a little bit better to dedicate your time a little bit better And just use that. Fueled that you're not enjoying your job to really driving takes a massive action. I love that answer because I get that question all the time as well. It's like I don't have. I don't have the time to do it. You know or you know. Should I quit my W. Two job to to do that and usually I or they say they hate their. Wt Job. And I always tell them. I'm like if you hate your W. Two job. It's because you don't have a reason to be there when you when you find out how much you can leverage your W. Two jobs from the bank to get more loans to get more properties you all of a sudden really start liking your W. Two job if you really love you're GonNa Leverage that that. Wd Job towards real estate near infiltrate. Fuck out onto that. You know interview guests on my show where you know yet. Maybe they weren't happening there two job so they wouldn't found a job that was related to real estate right. It's became construction company or they became a realtor right or they became a property manager. So there's ways that you can shift your w job to support your real estate goals as well great. I have to agree with that because that's what I did. I didn't know that I wanted to go real estate path but I was working at an accounting firm hated. It quit and started working as a property manager and that's gotten to real estate and on bigger pockets on the forums. They started talking with Was probably six or eight months ago. This guy in his twenties and just saying he wanted to get into real estate and he was ready to take massive action so he quit his. You don't steady w job at a big public accounting firm and went and worked as an accountant foreign investor and I actually got to meet them for the first time last night and he has a duplex and looking for more deals. And here's this really exciting to see that. He did it without quitting his job. And it's a lot easier to get bank financing. When you have that W two income coming in but how you said the time blocking and not everyone has everyone. Everyone has the same twenty four hours in a day than that is so great. I started on a construction site and you know hated every minute of it until I started seeing. How could leverage that towards real estate? I figured I was like man. I don't have any connections in real estate though. All I know is drywall. Construction guys electricians and flooring installers and then you know investors was like dude. Are you an idiot? That's exactly what you need like. You know? These people like you understand. You speak their language. Here's the money like we're having trouble finding contractors and you're having lunch with them every single day and I was like. Oh my gosh it is as you said earlier mindset mindset and what are you leveraging the people around you absolutely can add onto that right because you mentioned network and I know that a lot of people that are are looking to get started in real estate. They filled that they might be doing this on an island where they're not surrounded. Don't know people who are investing or they don't know people that are that are successfully doing this. That's totally okay. Most people start that way but you have to be diligent and going out there and building that network right go to meet UPS Get on bigger pockets. Go to conferences. I love real estate conferences. So some of the best experiences I've ever had been in a room with hundreds of other people that also talking about real estate right so go out there to start meeting people in. You'll be so like positively overwhelmed with the amount of support you get from those those kind of relationships pockets coming absolutely so excited her. Tony Tony Definitely GonNa let I'm excited. I'm excited about the food. I can't wait to go of that. You can find out more information of bigger pockets DOT COM forward slash conference twenty twenty. Did you find the link with all the Info there and you can meet Tony Birthright coming out with this guys. It'd be super all right Tony. So let's wrap this up a little bit We do have a couple of fun questions that we'd like to ask you We ask all our guests these towards the end this something. You ready for you excited. Yeah absolutely let's get into okay. Awesome so my first question is what's the highest high that you've experienced in real estate so far who behind high. I think it was the first time I saw the money. Come in like that. First Payment And I've got to set up with my with my property. Managers like this electric playmate. So you know. I emailed the that the direct deposit hit and like man like this is. This is actually a thing you know it was nice to get paid versus going the other way around right right one coming in. Yeah Nancy not sure. That was my with my son with my fiance said. Hey you know here. Here's what all the hard work is coming out. So what is your favorite APP or online tool or even piece of technology that you can't live without who online tool or piece of technology that's a good one. You know what I would say. I would say bigger pockets honestly and this isn't just because I'm on the podcast. I mean I. It's really is a great resource. You know. I've I've I've connected with so many different people on their Both online and in person. And it's it's just been such a wealth of information for me and I think like so many new investors like bats. You Re Rich Dad poor dad then you go and Google real estate and you find bigger pockets right and then you can go down this this you know this whole as Henrietta and the third for me so I think bigger pockets has been been pretty critical for me. I think you know moving forward is my business starts to scale. I would probably say that my email right like I feel like I'm connecting with so many different investors and and you know scaling the multifamily spaces. It really is a team sports. He had to know a lot of different people. So I I think really just being on top email building. Wish is pretty big former right now to love that email. I don't think I've heard that one yet but I think sometimes we do forget the power of email and just you know reaching out to people. It's a great way to to communicate with somebody. You know quickly and answer questions so yeah email's great my next question would be. Tony aside from Brits that Boorda we always but I'm actually interested. I get this vibe from you that maybe you're a reader that you read a lot and do a lot of research. So what are your top three books aside from at that port at? What are your top books that you love books? The five love languages out is one of my apps absolutely nothing to do with business. It's nothing to do with real estate but all about relationships so that that's a big one for me who is the second one called crucial conversations. That book is again not a business book but its relationship book and anytime that you're dealing in like high pressure conversations. That's a book. That are always fall back on Thursday. That I really really enjoy is good to great. It's a it's a business book Jim Collins thing was the author but it talks about how these businesses that were during really good made the leap great owns. That one's a big one for me. No you said three but I'm GonNa give you give your fourth minutes because I I love this one you. It's called the multipliers. I can't remember who who the author is. But it's a book about how high level leaders bring out the genius and people that they're leading. Nfl like in business. In real estate you have to be able to find the jeans and other people and in lovers. That's that's the best ability it's been for me to multiply recommendations or I haven't heard of that one. I just looked it up. I think it's Liz wiseman on. That's the one. Yeah Okay I'M GONNA I'm GonNa add that one for sure to my notes here. Goes what question you got okay? So this question is a little bit of rookie hazing we WANNA know. What signing is your guilty pleasure song man? Can you sing a little bit of it for us? You know what I'm actually a big Taylor swift and I call it a whizzy Bro. Head compliments your voice. I Dunno I kinda got the baritone voice I know if any but Once on the goes who don't even remember the words feeling broke. Got Great stuff that again. Antonio where can people find out more about you bro? Yeah absolutely so. I've got a podcast. It's called the your first rules investment. Podcast you've got some go over to your first rules. Investment DOT COM for slash. Itunes straight there. Same thing trying to help people that are getting or they want to get started. The premise that shows I interview people just about their first deal wherever we go super super deep on that first. Yoga and outs drop. Does every Monday Wednesday and Friday on so people that they can go there or if you want to find out more about overdoing on the apartment investing side you can head over to Alpha Geek. Capital DOT COM. That's Alpha Geek capital my know super funny name but we figured it. Stand up you can learn more about. We're doing the multifamily side and like you said you're working full-time and still investing and you got going on to so yeah. I think our listeners would be a great for your show to come less than two. So everyone over and hit subscribe but We'll link everything in the show notes if you guys want to go to bigger pockets dot com forward slash rookie. Ten Will link all of the great value that Tony has provided us today. But thank you so much for hanging out with us today absolutely. I'm super thrilled to be here. Super glad the bigger pockets. Doing this and I know it's GonNa fool award in the marketplace. There's a lot of people that want to hear this content and lasting. If you guys want to reach out to me directly you can give me a call. She metex the numbers nine zero nine. Five eight seven seven five to four again always happy to connect with people in helping him so he can prank call. I'm GonNa put you on a craigslist poster. Something I'm Ashley on Instagram. At while from rentals and he's fully bay. Unscom at Fleet Bay May Area R. E. And don't forget to get active in our facebook group so just search real estate rookie and you'll be able to join our group but check it out and I'll guarantee you can learn something new. Thanks for joining us. Tony thanks for being on the show men. A true pleasure to honor loved what you're doing. Keep crushing it. Especially for kids brother appreciate it. Thank you over.
Episode 53 - How to Make Better Financial Decisions by Focusing on Your Emotions with Anne Beaulieu
"Welcome to the agent of wealth podcast with Marc out from voters financial. In this podcast Mark Helps Guide you towards financial freedom ensure never run out of money and create a balance in life that prioritizes what is most important to you. Join us for this journey as Merck draws from years of expertise and guest. To solve the multiple wealth-building challenges involved in your financial life. Welcome back to the agent wealth podcast. This is your host Mark Badass. When it comes to our money were always thinking about the numbers, but today I brought on special guest and blue to talk about how the emotional side of our money and finances is just as important. And as a financial emotional intelligence coach, speaker and author who assists in really understanding what money means to US emotionally so that we can make better money decisions. She's the founder offensive of Osh. The heart of money matters a regular Forbes contributor and the author of twenty nine books in the emotionally intelligent way series, and brings a unique perspective to something that permeates every area of our lives, money and welcome to the show. Thank you mark rumph Jim, a welcoming me and then vitamin me on your show. I really like this topic I've been in financial services for over twenty years, and it really took me a while to realize how much emotions play into people's decisions about about money. So, how did you get started into into being a financial motion coach? You as long so laurie. I thought it in in finance. Finance on. I was a chartered financial analyst, but if you had asked me a work, the government I worked for companies that had billions and billions under asset. Under management. But if you had asked me back then, if I was financially literate, I would have said yes. But looking back I was a financial idiot. And the reason for that is. I money controlled me. I did not know how I felt about money. If I if you asked me how I followed was anxious a worried. If I had the money to pay the bill I was worried I was anxious. If I didn't have the money to pay the bills, I was anxious and. Exiled, he came from is I did not look at it. Either didn't look at the past on thought I can just go on with my life and get the diplomas and work in if I work hard enough on save some money, because in all those beliefs and been talked to childlike I grew up dirt for. IBM OF A back row. It's not only pay. Tomo Farm. And so I never looked at all this stuff. And I went on in this career in finance, but money make money exacerbated. It made it worse of how I felt the more money I had, and I married an I be had it may. We had everything on the song. Had would be called the white picket fence. All of them and I still felt anxious about money. It was never now. It's even one reason why when we divorced. My ex-husband denied because we couldn't see eye to eye about money. It was was something of Promise myself I would never be like my parents with never fight about money like they did, but I didn't even though we had it, so, I saw both ends of the spectrum and I realize holy cow I need to do something about this, so then I hired a hired amount. Okay, who was more fighting? Mostly Dollar Gym than I was. And he basically took me by the hand, and explain to me, are we make decisions, and then was like lightbulb went on at non non non. I dedicated I became an expert on emotional intelligence in when I felt confident enough a rod both fields back in and I became the financial issue. Coach I today. Putting. Off Now that's a Lotta Times. That's how it that's how it happens. But I think what you mentioned. How anxious you are about money I'm sure that's a common feeling that that people have and it's probably. You know it's probably works are comes out differently like some people like you said they have money, but but they probably never feel that there's enough or they always want more. And then there's probably on the other side everyone. There's people that worry I. Don't have enough money, and you know what what do I do. What do I do next? So it probably runs that that anxiousness probably runs the gamut of of people. And people don't understand I didn't understand it back. Anita like you know hours raised. Keep your feelings on business. Biggest lie ever. We make all decisions emotionally, I. Like, I have clients for example. And I did exercise with that? I, said, do you rationally if I wanted to prove that we make decisions emotionally I so do you rationally welcome one million dollars in your records by now? And defiant will hell yet. And got so excited and it was all exuberance. And laughter Mama, Great. Let's see. Let's pretend imagine you're walking in the desert rat now. There's nobody. You. All by herself, it's quiet. It's peaceful. All of a sudden. You find a black of fullback. And as you open it, you find one million dollars in on locked there. What feeling came. Most people. It's anxiety. It's worrying. And Got Client was anxiety here. The whole face dropped. And I said. That exile reference a belief o'memory. What was Esau fashion your face and she was like? Mafia. So I said in order for you to have one million dollars in your bank account. It's either drug money on your part of the Mafia or something. Like that makes no sense, it makes no rational sense, not because we all make decisions emotionally I in the US are dominant feeling. To validate the believes and memories. We have associated with that feeling about money. Than I ask. How do you feel when you pay rent? Inside. The appeal when you pick this or that exiled, it was anxiety everywhere. As so than what made you think it would be different when a million dollars would be placed in front of you? And that same client I saw I saw them today, and we did another exercise. 'cause they're determined to like I'm tired of feeling anxious money and I said. How much would you like to make so? They gave a number. And I said. Would you feel comfortable? Saying how much you are to your mother under when? Your father and they went. They literally back to back off a motion and physically. Ns than what makes you think you can earn that amount when you cannot own it emotionally i. In order to have we must be. Than it became more homework. But we make decisions emotionally. I even when it comes to money. Yeah so, how do you start i? Guess when you start an engagement with someone. Where where do you start with that? We know. How do you start it? Well. The first thing is i. ask is how do you feel about money does step one. That's awareness. How do you feel? And and how they feel when you pay your bill. How do you feel when you pay a bill? You have the money. How do you feel when you pay a bill? And you don't have the money is the feeling the same. Why not? Another exercise do is when you When was the last transaction that you? Maybe, you bought a Cox Eight Navy. You bought a meal, maybe bought gas. You know what whatever it is. You fuel the car. Annual side. You remember Nigo Yup. Do you remember how you felt when money past your hands either through a credit card? Emma car to cash. And many people would say now. I didn't even pay attention because they're not around money. They don't even think about it. When did the same people that when they buy coffee, they will look at the Barista grab their coffee and not acknowledged a or not say, thank you or on the big shed, or all these things they match as to how we feel as the awareness part when there's money in our hands. How do we treat ourselves? The we seal two words it. It also dictates how we treat others and how much money we get to enjoy. And after you know, they know that feeling than to becomes. Why do you feel this way about money? And for many people was a wild money makes me nervous. Money makes me this or that. No, no, no, they're armone, you feel. You were talked to feel anxious about money. You were talked to worry about money. And and the way I explained it to to to crowns is we have mirror neurons when we look in the mirror? And NFC when you look in the mirror and you look at yourself. I have long hair and I wouldn't expect to see red hair are wearing wearing red top I wouldn't expect to see a purple. I would expect to see this. But we all have mirror neurons so therefore as a child. We were like sponges. So, we minute imitated everything. We saw in front of US including Felix. People think it's cute. For example, if a suzy's Mama twirler hair when she's nervous and then one day her three-year-old star swirling her hair, Suzy's mom, she's aware she marks old that so cute. Look at her. She's Mannequin Mommy, but may now looking at that I would say. If you feel anxious when you twirl your hair, your daughter anxious wrestler. Thank, you learned that US, so we long our money. Our feelings about money Parents are caregivers are teachers of France a relatives whoever had the most impact on us, and it's not because these people are not in front of us. Oh, it's not because. He said he would never be like them. If we said we'd never be like them chances are we all like them because when I see. The blind spots are so. That's that, too. Okay so now we have awareness now, and then we can trace from where it came from, and then what's next after that? Then it becomes about implementing generating positive feeling two words money. So for many people is either. We see abundance A. we see the lack of it. Because we make decisions emotionally I. It has a frequency. So. We have a frequency around money. So if we want more money if we were example is always see, is poverty than our frequency of ideation is very low. So if we want to attract more, we must see most. We must open up more. We must start seeing the abundance around us, and it's not easy because I grew up getting more so I know it's not easy. visit is the fall that will save Alan unseen. See the lack of it. But for me, it was as simple as. I thought it was with the basics. Looking at a tree. Looking at the league song a tree. The tree is abundant. I am abundant goosebumps. That's coming. The, beach has a lot of sand. The beach is abundant. I am abundant. Now a lot of fish in the ocean. Ocean is abundant. I am abundant. In my voice drops and everything slows down at that feeling, and that alone does more to attract. Money Opportunities and everything to us. Than, pounding affirmation of pounding self-help books is, it doesn't matter. It's knowledge and knowledge without Gatien in my opinion is useless because they make all decisions emotionally. I S-. So then I guess that even seemed like a such a small thing. we'll get someone you know taken years of their emotions in their attachments and. Getting them on the right path to looking at money in a better light in that abundance Russia's at scarcity expanse of model. Yes, I have people saying. How long is it? GonNa take. To your beliefs. A lot of the Times is the money believes that we are the not true. We just took them as. I was watching a video the other day any fascinating. A. Was this guy you know when we went to school and we want the? Cheer Month US why it was drilled into us one, but this guy proves mathematically. Throughout Algebra. It was very simple. It was proven people how one plus one can equal any number. You won't including zero. It's a bully. It's everything unless we examined every belief we have. Unless we stop ourselves and that's the discipline. The discipline is learning. To, so we can unlearn, but we were taught, so we can learn new behaviors. If so we must question everything about money. Always say people both show me what's inside your wallet? I'll tell you who you are. So I mean Y-. Now we're. We're looking at a person and you're in your coaching a person. How does it when you add the the complexity dynamics when there's a couple when when we're looking at two people, you mentioned earlier you you and your your husband at the time fought about. About money in. You know I think that's. Too I guess people fight about love and money are two of the things that that at people fight about how can how can spouses partners work better together with with money when it comes down to money? When it comes to life are examples dating? I tell my currents within the by the third date. You must bring up money. And they go. You must bring money. And you pay you pay for your meal yourself. You pay. They pay for this. You paid for yours. And that. Is before you must have that conversation. You must know what money means to them. You as you ask Bam because it's the beginning of the relationship you ask them and you watch John. Memos People Squirm the squirming now constable. They're like. An you bringing this up in everything. That's going on that moment. It shows you how the about money and why they feel that way. And people think that you know love will conquer all his GonNa, be all magnificent. Will Get through when we get through it, but by the time you're deepen their relationship. It's a grateful, because then those those red flags with the bitten. The didn't go away. It just got magnified in the religion. And one of the things that I say to people who want to go and relationship is like me, you attract. Where your APPs! And that makes people. Usually angry. And years what otherwise Let's say which is gonNA make some sir. Let's say you're a nine. And you meet to. Would you date the two? Most people go now. Not. Too much work. If you think the two would data mine? And they're like. But would they get? Would they be you know what they would, they would they that with a nine agree to that most likely knocked. So as A. Reverse their the nine where the two. And it's the same thing they go will know when it says the to dating nine, is it? Of course they will? They will date. Let's be realistic here a nascent now most likely not so let's say a person is sixty one to five when it comes to like understanding of money. Ban. It's within the same vibration the same understanding. So, even though we may, you may find somebody about finances all the time. But back person a similar money believes as you. That makes no sense now it. It makes sense because even to extreme of the same poll. It's. A belief that holds both ends. It's like if you pick up the of both ads. So what off a couple! That's already. In a relationship. I need to do the work separately. Because they need to really understand what money meets that emotionally and what? So that the next time they're triggered. About money. Than they know, it has nothing to do with the person in front of them. A trigger is always something in the past. I'll give an example. I had this guy who was loud chewing. Annoy The crap out of that Tien. Off It's now. An asset when when did you hear a firm sign? Loud showing. And, they thought. I was nine years old. My father and my mother had split up. My mom started dating that guy. That guy was allowed sure and he sat in my father's seats. So they spent thirty some years being angry at every low scheuer. Even though they were angry at a situation that had more to do, and it's the same about money. If, we're worry about money if we're anxious about money, in where if we are financially nagging people if we are feeling responsible for everyone and everything around us financially all of Comes from the PATS. It's not who we are. But we just choose surrealist that history over and over. Because we haven't learned our lesson yet. A We'd been deeply arts, and instead of healing ourselves. We drag it on a bad as we go into the next relationships until we can hear it. And how do you? How do you him? You know if that's what needs to be done. How how do you? Get them to let go of that that past attachment to it. While they need. They need to set their goals for example if they have different goals, if for one person they for example. If there are say they save money, they save every penny penny. They have like they're very frugal. And they save and save statement. The other one is usually the opposite over. With you see? Field to and the reason is because the. You know a saver wants to learn how to relax I. Bet Mall with money. And the one that was to relaxed with money. But they're trying to learn from one another. And in relationship cannot be. Coaching, wife and you cannot coach your husband. You cannot. And because I make stocks, relationships and I wish I had learned that twenty thirty years ago because there's always. Coach somebody. We think we know better if we know better. Somebody's on the pass. Those of bunnies lower quality in the relationship. So therefore must do that work separate. You must know how we feel about money. Why you feel that way where you money beliefs come from, and once you know all of that, then you do your ultimate best. Knock to bring your triggers. Your money triggers into their relationship. Because if you bring them in the relationship, it has nothing to do with your purse. Worker one South Tasha in that moment with a one ruining your relationship. And I've had people say to me while I can't be with that person that natives right by credit card by. Thousands of dollars I. can't that ruining my credit? Whatever it is, but they chose to be with that person to begin with. And again not change. Anybody can never change anyone. We changed when we ready. Because we make decisions emotionally, we many when they feel the need to change not a moment before. So, therefore it becomes. Does it work for me on that? It doesn't work became rockaway. If it works, then, we say. But it's a choice and for most people that I find it very very tough to make those those choices than rather stay in a secure relationship bad. Step up and be with someone's more their caliber when it comes to understanding emotional material, I guess you said you put money on the table third date. It's better to find out. Earlier. that. It is to find out earlier because When we're in love. I mean the love the love chemicals. They lost it anywhere between six eighteen months. And so therefore we don't want that. Those things which are important money is crucial in the relationship. People not about money. No, it's about money. Their money is is permeated every area of our lives. But yet people make it so taboo because they were told number to bring up money at the dinner table, or we don't talk about money, or if you talk about money, it sounds at your gold digger or that all these believes around, so people walk in a in a relationship blind like I asked people. If you're not a business opportunity. Would you go into business half with somebody without checking them out. No Would you check to make sure that financially sound? Would you say we do all you do? Call due-diligence and people say ass, but when it comes to relationships, most people don't do the due diligence I didn't. Because I thought. If I like somebody, it's enough. On, the Dick Van Ryan had boxing. But by them. If you love somebody. It hurts much more. Than walking into a relationship with ice wide open that emotional maturity. Because it comes down to. Does it work for me not? And and many people they must check money side. One of those boxes that you check. You must make sure you have the same beliefs around learning. Otherwise. Is it worth spending ten twenty thirty years fighting somebody over money? And like I say many of my clients like yet you may you know it prospects or something? You may not want to do the work around money, but that divorce is gonNA cost you more than hiring an advisor consultant or coach, and that's where they go. Requires. Do you. Do you see it being fixable, so you have a couple that is having trouble with money. maybe they're on opposite ends of the spectrum like you said maybe WanNa spend their one's a saver. Can, can they meet in the middle? Can Can you help them? Get to some point where they? They're able to move forward with it. They can yes, you can. It depends on on what the relationship means to them emotionally. Willing to do the work we call the inner work and each of them working on their own triggers, understanding like all their money beliefs, and and what what what it stands for and what they won't money for. Somebody in mind more money to buy a house I said somebody doesn't want to buy a big house. The very happy renting for the rest of their lives while that's the verge of believes that has to be somehow reconciled. And thinking we can convince if I were to give like one tip. Believe you can convince anyone else we can't. We can't. We can never tell somebody how to feel. And we never truly know how somebody else feels so in relationship who wants to empower one another when they feel the trigger crummy, the money triggered mind that you know familiar money. Fight coming one more time. You stop. You both thought on alert. Take a deep breath. And wants us to the other I can see you walk triggered. What are you triggered about? Exactly as to be precise. What's? The trigger must be specific. In you can ask questions open ended question. Where do you believe comes from what makes you feel without judgment? Why do you need right now? So you're feeling anxious about the situation. Why do you need right now? oftentimes, it was a major to stop nagging me I. Need You? That's not the answer. You need because what we need often is mini to drink a glass of water. We need to Walk Winnie to journal. leaney to. It has nothing to do with the other person, our needs and and combat planes and we can say okay. We'll reconvene in twenty four hours. We'll talk about this one more time, and you come back at it as often as necessary. Until. Get a clear understanding. Of your position. At the other person's position. Intellectually. And emotionally. So basically it's coming from that place of empathy. Feeling what they feel. And looking at their world, their their beliefs around money to their own land sits. And that will do more for relationship. Why because the partner will feel seeing? It will feel hurt. They will feel understood. They will start opening up. And then then there's a chance at healing. Whatever was that money trigger? But it's it's work. Relationship works so instead of trying to push your position. Better understand the are. Somebody else. I may be both know this youngest Housi- anyone who tries to convince us. We usually tend to just dig our heels. And it becomes a head thing instead of a heart thing. We need to get companies like the heart of money matters. Because it's not only the heart of money like money matters of the heart, the person with the money beliefs they matter. And, if we want to understand somebody, he'll money situation. We must address how that person on how we feel about money. And why we feel that way. So that? We can take no which action to take. That's the empowerment piece. Otherwise. We just keep repeating past. And that leads nowhere. It's like a cat chasing it sale. I'm sure you've seen it. In your you'll love word definitely and I guess it just it's either if that happens, it's just at one point. Someone just gets tired and fed up and. Decide, it's not worth it. Yeah and they jeopardize whole relationship instead of looking within. In unlike me in the past I did the same thing. I thought while it's not worth. It just move next I. Brought, I am wheat I. We you everybody. We oughta common denominator with every experience that the. The way feel about money. One of the biggest you could fight lies that had told myself was active. Behave around money differently around my husband. My Kids Parents Nano between your life partner in new. South common denominators. Year You and your children. It's you you and your coworkers. It's you. I said it cycle computer. The computer makes no difference who sits in front of it. It will behave the same way. So, we made the same way around money. No matter where the. When we start paying attention to every money transaction, we make how we feel about money. We start getting a very good feel of our money believes where they come from unworthy emotional blockages might be. You don't. Realize how much it's, you know you're you're in. The stuff is ingrained your beliefs. Your behavior is ingrained in you. And changing it, it's not easy but something that can be worked on. Well, it's I. Mean What's The alternative? Right like a laptop people west the alternatives. You keep going through life. Proving the world that money is to earn the money missing grow on trees. Ami. Money doesn't grow on trees like that expression came from when we understand the fractional factional banking system this plenty of money. Money is a concept. Isn't Lucien. I mean you take the dollar you deposit in the bank? The Federal Bank reserved right to take nine dollars of your bank account. While ten dollars sit, Senate can take ten nine dollars out of Your Bank your bank account and landed others. While you're ten dollars sits in your bank account. So, how real is that money? It's not real. We think it's real because we associate heavy feelings to it. But money itself like member. The problem is plenty of money. The whether we see it as abundance or lack, it's a feeling. Always comes back to feeling feeling feeling. Golden to be you'll be okay. So I mentioned in the Intro that you've written twenty nine books. One and all of a sudden he just said I'm going to crank out twenty eight more or. How did you get started writing? Like pretty much everything else on my mentor said to me, said the. Ever written a book. Answer I go right I know rider. And I had no idea I never written. An article had never written. A book are never done any of that. By, SIA had to believe that I was no writer and it came from by grade teacher. Who told me that I could not have written I wrote because he was too good. And, it impacted me for decades. So, we went to work now on you with the beliefs. Our minding. And in the first book came out. In started coming in one after the other like an assembly line. How our did this idea I would write and ride and write in a game like that journey neck one after the other. People asked me inflow I can ride eleven hundred words on our. Inflow in wire but I love riding. Managed to switch that belief. For me. It's about sharing. It's like we all have with them. We all need to share it. We all have those abilities whether we choose to develop them or not. We're all creative. Were all powerful truly believe at? All right, so we're just about out of time Thank you so much for being on the show today. How can someone find out more info about you or get in touch with you if they'd like to? You can find me on my website financial issue, the coach I'm on so unlinked tune in all social media instagram that, but on the website are have women are coming up. You can sign up for it It's on debunking all those money money money. Money believes I have an online course coming up and also a whole strategic planning in financial issue implementations or Enterpreneurs 'cause most of my clients entrepreneurs. WHO pivoting a realizing like as become more aware society, the realizing that their money. Is actually what's preventing them from going from five to six figures or six to seven figures? Deal that go into the root of the problem as The right way to go. Great will link to all that in the in the show notes and again. Thank you for being on the show today. Thank you so much, fiving meets, and that's. In your and thank you everyone for tuning into today's episode until next time have a great day. Thank you for listening to the agent of wealth podcast. Click the subscribe button below to be notified. When new episodes become available, the information covered represents the views and opinions of the guests, and does not necessarily represent the views or opinions about is financial. The content has been made available for informational and educational purposes only, and is not intended to be a substitute for professional financial planning and investment advice, always seek the advice of your financial adviser or other qualified financial service provider with any questions, you may have regarding your investments and financial planning.
Prof. Sao Tomai, Professor of Electrical Engineering at the University of Ljubljana, Slovenia.
"Welcome to the site of accents podcast. Where we explore emerging ideas from signs, policy economics, and technology. My name is Gill eappen. We talk with woods, leading academics and experts about the recent research or generally of topical interest. Scientific senses at UNSTRUCTURED CONVERSATION WITH NO AGENDA OR PREPARATION Be, color. A wide variety of domains. Red New discoveries are made. And new, technologies are developed on a daily basis. The most interested in how new ideas affect society. And help educate the world how to pursue rewarding and enjoyable life rooted in signs logic at inflammation. V seek knowledge without boundaries or constraints and provide unaided content of conversations bit researchers and leaders who low what they do. A companion blog to this podcast can be found at scientific sense. Dot Com. And displayed guest is available on over a dozen platforms and directly at scientific sense dot net. If you have suggestions for topics, guests at other ideas. Please, send up to info at scientific sense, Dot Com. And I can be reached at Gil at eappen Dot Info. Mike yesterday is prefaced Zozo Dema Zeke who is a professor of electrical engineering and the head of the board will seek formation technology at the University of new. Brianna. Sylvania, he has authored or co authored more than two hundred scientific papers in the field of ICT, at signal processing. Hubbard since two, thousand, six, six, Benke predicted in his lectures at several conferences the crisis that occurred two years. Later, Keith has been engaged in research on the causes of economic crises at the measures that would be necessary to prevent in the future Bentham says. Hello. Welcome to. Thank you. So I want to discuss your book. Entitled Imagine Nonprofit Society. Utopia. UNNECESSITY. rather than starting at the beginning of the book, I would like to go to part two of the book where you have some suggested solutions to the problems here described. But before you get there, let's define the problem said the context for the solution set you suggest you say Avoid constantly recurring crises walls in ecological disaster in the future and I guess you can add pandemic Stu how? The world urgently needs a transition from the cotton Sushi economic system, which is based on the profit of capital. Towards a new system that based on different foundations do you say a nonprofit social economic system all or more simplistically in on profit society? So you want to talk a bit about the problems out into the context for some of the solutions that you suggest. Of course. I think that from. Just physical bouts of. View the current economic system is unsustainable. That's the per Aldrin. This system. This. Put. The function. It needs economic girl. Yet, but economic is explanation. So A. About two percent yearly economic filed for this system. Normally function. But in Hanley tears. It's mean Stanford's into hand hand falls in three hundred. Thousand Foot. So at these girls. in three candidates. Thousand Times more energy than us not decision. That that presumes. So that. BE DON'T GET efficiencies from new technologies and so on. So either energy creation today laws ignorant by fossil fuels. you know maybe fifty years we would completely change the equation perhaps. Known this I cannot tell you this you know. This a ghost has to pause. Yes. Fault that the action. Consumption. Order today, we cannot 'cause you ellison produce. GonNa. Be Consumed Thousand Times Slorc a million times than for hundred years. Since hope. You're not given this that. Del Limit to homage humans can consume. So any system that is predicated on it two percent growth in consumption. Has To caster temper that or come to a heart at some point. Yes, that's to. Production and consumption just two parts of the same craciun now was so we cannot accept to to today. A bus. Every person one more beds device. So in two hundred David Hale. Hundred devices each in in the thousand deals. Hundred. Million Devices. It's impossible. Misha is did the system which requires gross. He's fantastic. To the point where does not enough. Think but when the really the point where deadliest. Would too much. You know there's so much other Tyson's needed today not took to Jews but fairly because we can produce much more than we can said right and so so. So the argument is on consumption that cannot grow instantly like like the economy. Padelis assuming but that is. You A. Large issue. So it so even tactically not even going to years even the contemporary situation you say. You, the eight point, five, billion people that we have one billion, you call the golden billion. casts living standard, but the remaining seven point five billion people can only dream of the golden standard of living and so we you know we have a big issue you today that is sort of People put into two different buckets right It's true. It's also the same problem because when the profit is the only, Martin? For doing something. The. Catholic dot accumulates. One Alum Punchy not now. At this moment, pipe person has financial capital. Like the other half of human reproduction. It's going. Right so so you are you're saying that such a system is inherently unstable. and so as we think about solutions around us, you know so so conceptually at the highest levels are are you saying yeah, we can conceive some solutions, but you can't really implement them. Because, you say human consciousness is tumbling block to any sort of new ideas you can implement and so so what do you mean by human consciousness? I've mentioned this I. Would say, so Bob Pinon in the. Chance you know what people seeing, what people believe what people think. It's good. What should be done to you know this? Mechanism of advertising could ideas. Make, people believe that the the the consciousness, the best possible system they don't even allies unstable. Yeah you told so. Let me. Let me make a statement and again can debate if it's true or not. You know we don't really have much day doctors say that humans are very different from animals. It fifty thousand years of human evolution got to a point that out objective functions are reasonably similar to animal at Adama's objective function. I. Would Argue. which basically takes in energy and a need to perpetuate the jeans and so so you seem to have some. Expectations of human scare. Of course I why think that? Human Stephen humans own animals. things maybe a new some hands struck to. The but the. You know. To produce new ideas to -nology to help laws to hell. All these things it's Just. A nod level of consciousness I don't say that the. Not Conscious. But the layers of consciousness defense full. Full the Huma Be. Okay so You can't collective consciousness and you say. So guys will transition towards a nonprofit society that is the solution that'd be going to discuss in detail. Requires a change in the collective consciousness. In nonprofit society cannot be based on negative values. Here's egoism greed envy and competitiveness. which are the key drivers approved capitalism and you want to replace the human trades into solidarity cooperation on honesty respect, understanding tolerance, and pushing typically. Look around Cav any indication that these bad us humans approved US toward these values. Wholly, as hell you. Beheld disaster happens like Earth Greg flawed or something like that. Humans head one another day. Most people I mean most people. Some. Tired see her Cihan Socio Bads, but did small percentage. people would but. They educated in different rate I think that education is really important in this matter. If you're. A you're educated. Won't. Be, competitive. Beats these one be better than he? WOULD BE BAD Differ yes. Yes and you know you pointed out some empirical data. So you saying the ancient Rome as well as late in the US slavery was taken for Gandhi. Added No, they're controversial. and over to the graduate shift collective concerts slavery came came to be deemed acceptable and was actively abolish. So you you have some. Sort of long term. Longitudinal data that says, you know things that he believed today that could be essentially maybe deemed completely unacceptable in the future and so what you're saying is an export thinking about. You know really different based organized society and and and KAFFA characteristics of a modern society? Yes baby sound the some a communist I. I don't know what? But they. They just just. CAN'T RUN CANEA starting was not communism you know that's Stunning Dictatorship. It's Nothing to do with communism. So that's why allied the the communism. With the. I think that the steal one of the best on the lives of economics system was expected. He mates. One. Mistake The he said that you come to socialism communism it. Could be a big mistake. Because People who perform. Russian of usually sociopaths. Come to the bottle. And it can number book. It's A I think that psalms contentment. Levy people understanding. Debts deputies, goodful done. That's a bad for gun. That's good for them. You know this good kinks, the bust. Knew that if people are happy, there would be good. Yes getting to some prescriptive ideas that you have from some improvement perspective. So one access that discuss in detail is monetary reform. And you say one of the first steps to would have more stable system should be in changing the method of issuing money. central banks would take over the right to create new money from commercial banks and have a high degree of independence from governments and contouring funding circulation. So you want you want essentially take the power away from central. Banks. who essentially create money through the Monteplier is set. that does afforded to them by by the Cottam, system. and you say new money not to be issued as loans translate directly into the state budget as grant funds from the Central Bank. Do you want to do under talk a bit in detail about Components of Monica reform that you're suggesting. said it's Worth so Maybe, one condition new mommy from Dacian in London. The era date, this system, but. It's basically a simple. New Money new is produce some Nazi. Soak. Season that. The state. Which has center bank. And to the Defensive Bank, his owned by the state or country yet. This bank issue new money for massing. Then state owes this banker money it. Is illogical but that's not the main problem. The men club is that this humanity money is issued for interest. So, if central bank is hugh one million years. Until the choir to millions. Stayed Gandhi stimulants, coney printed long million. You know it's impossible this. This longest. Non Cannot be paid the snow rate electical way to pay these. Debts. Until you daily some side to the roadblock. When you see this WILL DEBT TO SECRECY PHILLIES SECONDS And now it's about. Two hundred. Dollars off. Right so that they do issue state one as the Monteplier sect that commercial banks essentially create. Let's go freak money. you know based on the based on the Sandbank Bank issued currency. you want you don't want to have died. You want to take that out of the equation. So you want the federal bank sort of a the central bank issued currency, go directly to the states. and and then get allocated really from a portfolio management perspective get allocated into into societal. Goals. and the other aspect you say is that. The interest equation. that the cabin the system is primarily the the banks have differential. In interest right between depositors depositors get almost nothing. and is taking the lawn and appearing introspective that back to the bank. Show. So you won't eliminate both of these things, right Yes, but it's not just that the depositor hessler interest in the bank yet bill Ramiz the bank. Monday for laughing. You know ran who take a loan in the bank. Did just try to number is newly nothing else. They wanting to for this money. It's It's crazy. It's really crazy but. It's No way that this is. Only A. Forgot the thanks for God. The death doesn't guys. So necessarily. Right and You sight a you know a real situation of the EU. where you know essentially the the formation of the EU took away the more likely flexibility that all the EU states had right. So now you have a situation where some states are going to fail and essentially. You know get based out by by system. SORTA happen to to know it's happened to Greece happen to Spanish happens the. The you know the bankrupt yield is so they can't now take. Big loaning big. Measures, which are some totalitarian sensible measures in Oak. Across in this. Was Staley. This system is the class. But. I am full said he puts this Istanbul gross steady does not help. Break Right, and so new suggested Nubia of doing this. There are two major attributes The new money that central banks create the control circulation to be deposited directly to state budgets as Dan Funds. and loans. And governments would bend put this money into circulation by spending it for the purpose of covering part of their obligations. and. So in the EU context. Yell. The Central Bank essentially gives allocation STU the. Members of the U. Yes. Solely Mile You. Know, it would be like you know the some great gypsy new some the other projects which ought financed by. You. This so now states have to pay. To Your? So that, there is this budget. But the the new money would declared that in this way. payments needed from countries. For different states to pay to the you. Could. Be. For. Those Big projects, such projects Agenda. You'd be commission. And so you want do sort of take out the middleman there. And and also you want commercial banks. You say would no longer be able to issue loans that are not based on money received from central banks. So it all sort of the money that they create should not exist. banks would be prevented from issuing new money as loans, which now makes up about ninety five percents of separation. and. So in both cases, you're basically taking over the middleman right Sepah Bank directly to the state. Yes I think Because now. You'll see we hill a sector national sector. Really, sector, they are the economy use something. Some good. Some syllabuses is what they are and the financial sector. Not. But. Leah owes. To financial sector. Is it logical? It is not. The problem is always implementation. So you know you say unfortunately, it's doubtful that the reform or any other like will happen in the U. the big require the consensus of all all euro-zone member states, and that would be near impossible to reach without proper shift in the collective consciousness. At. So in some senses saying society has grew up before before you can get here. As does that is the reason I will this book some some some people may understand more what is really happening. and. What will be battle and did the I'll battle race. To function. This is the main reason. Yeah. Yeah. And along the same lines. So the other part of this puzzled. A system in which is used strictly as a medium of exchange. Than capital maybe establishing Pavlik existing monetary system and because actually an example this in Switzerland. said. Many example edges are. Thing. The the greatest. Wide. Bank in Switzerland. Richer reach. Lantz nine resulting. You know it's minded team states. Exchange stint. Money. Held the demanded should care. This. Means of exchange you don't understand this you just have to have to. Run. Selling by. Now, there's no money. What the what concerns do fleece the one the by something. And he looked. I will note. Yet, and this is all you'll note. The other person? Could you back and get something back for this? You'll note so is. Not Basically money. You're the system. Works just like that you know the total amount of money in such a system zeal. Some Haute. And the No. No that the the money in the system is you and tinted up a bills Manila, it's needed subpoenas. Appeals when it's needed is not needed anymore. Yay. It's sort of a bartering going back to W y'all are bank in Switzerland. It's sort of a bottling system but what is being bartered is given value. And that value is kept captain alleged right? So you have something like forty, five, thousand small and medium-sized enterprises added on fifteen thousand individuals transacting base. So it's not a small. A small system and you you'd spit easy to set out, Yep yes. It's quite a big system but in the in the scope of work monetize system, it's tiny. You. See the wanted she said each lipizzaner about seventy five percents of three straight. Pump Baghdad. Until. It's only three straight fluids snubbed beat but. It's loud. You know. Its. Function and rightly seems a stink in dime. So crisis financial crisis. The percentage of. This is some. Increased. Snow Kaiser see decrease decreases. So dead's right. didn't. Was Not affected those. Financial Prize. Yet another affected Swiss didn't have. Yet that's so interesting. You know it's sort of I didn't want to go to the shadow system, but it offers flexibility to the financial system. The Bay that Wer is working they have they have sort of on currency, right? It's It's really for a company currency wwl Franck, C. It's W.. And as you say it kicks into gear when they're discontinuity and there is it all the the the financial system can really cope with that discontinuing the day you can go to the basics here. bridges. Really Putting a value on the on the on the real asset that is being transacted. At keeping value in the ledger rather than issuing money. You've learned to in this. You, did go on TV need. Not Thinking Ledger just Just, you. Every by the. His own line you know when you right I you know. You you should money right and then you get this is you note back You destroy. Destroy this money it's go. It's out. But somebody has to keep the the records, right? Yes. Yes. That that's A. That's of the banking. System. Basically. Not a phillies. It just takes. Who Owes who how much? And as you say a again, you know Florida such system in place elite be clarified as collateral for non-performing loans that method of limiting negative and positive account balances ensuring investment funds, and so forth. You say luckily, most of these details have already been worked out but W I are banks functioning functioning bang detests being floated on time right. Yes I think that the most August. Fullerton day choice for menu small systems places around Kimes e fancily you local. In this system. So I think yes. If you go larger. I I'm sure that some algorithms will do was killed but I mean, did they're? Usually a solo US diplo brand will. Exponentially exults. Spray. The I wanted Jamie do another item that talk about you say capitalism has built in positive feedbacks. which make it unstable ability of economic system is Dan for turbulent make a positive feedback process. And you suggest progressive tax process reduces that positive feedback. Out. But you also suggest son of a progressive tax on earnings you WANNA talk a bit about that. Yes. You know this is a form. Of. Is Not my job is. On the lighting system since the Buick. GMC No in digital signal. Sad think and. The. The system. Positive. Feedback. If the outward positive affects input. Greece become unstable. Let's let I see spas feedback in this. One interest in the. Cockpit on. Capitol until smoke US know this is. Positive feedback. And now the positive three that case Labor market. No. been. Is Good for had They by. The new jobs within becomes the tons slow. People losing their jobs, the him, no mining people is losing job. The less people has mining looking for his job and it's go stop and. STICK POSITIVE TO FEEDBACK Okay. Okay and so you have suggestions You know most countries have some sort of is a tax on our up on profits. US suggesting also a progressive tax on earnings, not just on prophets to sort of damp and the positive feedback effect. Just saw. Even suggest more not on the Buzzer to. The But avoiding traffic at all. You know the the. Nothing the content the finishing of profit. Because Sir adobe. Office than. We paid local small. Note. They. You know. It's The Reach own expense. Good. Bait. was. Also Helpful amortization up fuel machines building. So dancing ruts left. So. This is. This is more than you. Ducatis more than us is US world. Doing The disclosure split lacking because is positive feedback. Or? Arriving that's the name nonprofit society. And also this. Has. Just set A. Station of income yes. It's a negative feedback because if you you come to certain run because taxes are becoming. Too high you out. So limit. The ince's, blue. Right right. So aspect which I find very compelling is. Strengthening. Social Security and social security in the in the larger context here not just social security in the US. and. And then you say. Countries with high level of social security have fallen crime in this day and age, they should be no difficulty in meeting the basic needs. Intact population social security might be strengthened by minimizing process But You know one of the one of the years that there are a lot of debate says you know both in the US and elsewhere is society of universal basic. Income. Yeah. and use fight actually an experiment that was done in Canada right and The data was named recently that data centre by she wanted to talk a bit about that does Dawson Canada? Yes this was experimenting Successful Experiment I. Mentioned now. A new extents ongoing I know yet But in this. Order expectations did to be not work than the de the basic income. It's still before. A fourth nearby hot gloomily could more because they held the ties so Minimum. A dope of. College. So disk does. Not. people. that. Very positive, but the abondoned because. You know the Yes. This was something that was done. Don't go. In seventy, thousand, nine, hundred, seventy, seven. And the the U B I was you know clutch small three, hundred, fifty dollars per person. And if you look at the date now you know doing that forty at times dated by the experiment was run. You say that the they will not applause infects such as children improved their school performance number of hospitalizations declined sharply as significant throb in domestic violence, mental illnesses, and so all the positive affects. exist and The challenge against you be is sometimes as you say, is people just stop working watched proven to be untrue because use only one percent fewer working hours. For men only but flights and feel working. Women so It seems like. It of the supporters of you be i. what they say is actually he's gone out in this experiment. Yes No I said I. Don't know now by connor died data. Hitler but I think in Finland. is now performed such expanded thing yet but. I think they get to seniors us. Doug experiments. pleased. Budget before. By the dates but. You. Homeless people some them out of Miami in London I. Think. Day, team to their lives, they get divorced they get. The do will no more homeless people. So. Does sex plan shows that. The also a I don't know that. Voting. Brian if you saw that movie. The the Shows that the context we more social security has less crime. Really simple. Right right yeah. I mean there are two issues. One is sort of the initial conditions It's really difficult to go from absolutely nothing. Two hundred thousand dollars in net towards it's actually is almost infinitesimally infinitely easier I should say. Go from hundred. Thousand to one billion. And that is not something that's been understood. So that is an initial conditions problem. and then there is us, you know the the the stream of income bitches sort of the downside risk management aspect, right? If, you continuously worry about the downside risk. It's just show up in healthcare expenses is going to show up in all sorts of society really bad things, and so if you have the downside protection, you actually gain a lot lot from society. Didn't quite understand what q wanted to. Yes. So the first thing you know about initial conditions meaning somebody who does not have anything. is going to have great difficulty to climb out of it. The homeless situation that you described. in. The Knowledge can see the that you just divide the basic. The daisy. Of decently, lead? To early by You know. Not to. Some high standard to some you know. Jazz scene. Era Of. Airplanes but the basic leering and. This the state of the -nology is. Out is SPA. And then you know you talk about many of the things that people are thinking about van be have. What economists would call market failures. And they are things like health care expensive schooling public plans petition. and. You know if if these sort of things exist. In the in the you know sort of the downside risk management. system then people can people can get healthy, they can get educated. And it will. It has significant societal returns in the long run. Right. So you know what people say, these things that costly, but they're not just looking at, they're not looking at the entire system caused in the long run I. Think. You know this idea that costly. It's so long. It's only minding money which is produced. By, banks, from nothing. Yes, you know you. Want to build something when people who visit. and. You have people you material, but bank. Do not give you money and you cannot visit. Yet. It's good. Yet, Yeah Yeah. And so successful in conclusion So you have a set of ideas. Here are be no some of the problems that exist it's not just one country it's all around the world. You have yourself said that some sort of social consciousness enhancement of increasing social consciousness is needed before some of these ideas could go into implementation Do you think you will be in safe five years? Ten years down the road? Will. Really help to safely manage. Happening around the. You See. Let's say US go. But in new devote ecology ecology yet, then the idea slowly will will go now. ecology. Ecology food to. Roofing and so on. It's slowly slowly going does some. Out Slowly. But. He does. So you are you're optimistic today. I I, hold it the those cooking With not block it too much channel. The night. The people. Cross leaning in need. The mind, her social blog and they road against fleet. against. against. As income. Right. You know that's that's the consciousness. Yet. That's consciousness they've solved. So back to what you said before, which is education. And so it of Y'all from key, for example. People are people are okay with affordable care act. But they don't like obamacare. which is which is the same thing as you know in the United States so. The politicians spin it. And it's very easy to get large number of people believe in something without really understanding what they're believing him. Does little with the Second World Wars said if you times his becomes crew. That's right. Yeah. Excellent. Yeah. This has been paid so. Thanks so much for spending time Bitney. Sanogo. Yeah Yeah Good Luck with What you're doing here, fitting potent. Thank you. Thank you. Bye.
The Race to Court Black Banking Customers Proves Theres Money in Equality
"Turn your home into a smart home in just minutes with an Amazon smart lighting bundle set every possible mood with over sixteen million light colors to choose from or control the lights in your home with the sound of Your Voice. Just say Alexa turn on the lights learn more at Amazon dot com slash B W daily. Are. From wondering I'm David Brown and this is business wars on this Tuesday October twentieth this summer civil rights protests may have quieted but the focus on improving banking opportunities for people of Color is still going strong earlier this month the new majority black and Latte necks owned and operated digital bank called Greenwood was launched by bounce TV founder Ryan Glover in rapper slash activist Michael Render better known as killer Mike within hours of the bank's website going live render told CNN that Greenwood had quote tens of thousands of applications and it doesn't even open until January. Greenwood is named for the Tulsa Oklahoma community known as black. Wall. Street, in one, thousand, nine, hundred, eighty, one white rioters destroyed the thriving community but the new digital bank is committed to reversing the damage of such events. Its commitment to black and Latin next communities is woven throughout its business model. For every approved account Greenwood will donate the equivalent of the cost of five meals to an organization called gooder which targets food insecurity at. Your Greenwood Debit Card to the Greenwood gives back program, and you can choose to have your purchases rounded up to the next dollar and to direct your quote change to go to the N. Double Acp United Negro College Fund or Gooder, and each month. The bank will grant ten thousand dollars to a black or Latin X owned small business. The bank has roughly three million dollars in seed money, Angel Investors, and an open market CNBC reported. That black owned banks flourished in the nineteen fifties and sixties but in the two thousands, the number of black owned financial institutions declined by more than fifty percent leaving roughly twenty black owned banks in the US and the only one that manages more than a billion dollars doesn't actually exist yet city I bank of DC and Broadway Federal Bank or in the process of merging together the as yet unnamed entity will have combined assets of more. Than a billion dollars legacy are focusing on underserved communities to the same day that Greenwood launched its website J. P. Morgan Chase announced a thirty billion dollar commitment to address wealth inequality. The company will make a combination of loans, investments and donations over the next five years to help underserved communities especially, black and Latte. Next communities CNBC reports that most of the money is tied to housing investing in personal mortgages and financing low income housing developments. Research shows that this type of investment is good for the economy and good for banks a recent report for management consulting firm McKinsey. Banks quote exclusionary policies and strategies hurt the financial wellbeing of people of color which hurts the economy as a whole today nearly half of black households or unbagged or under banked according to the FDIC over a lifetime. The Brookings Institution estimates that being unbagged can cost nearly forty thousand dollars in fees. The bright side is that providing financial services to underserved communities can revive local economies and it's good for banks to Mackenzie estimates that financial institution stand to gain two billion dollars a year. If Black Americans had the same access to financial products as white Americans, if black Americans had that access and the wealth gap also closed, well, banks could be raking in up to sixty billion dollars more in annual revenue from. Black customers. So, while ensuring that black and Latte next customers have the banking services they need to help them. Build wealth seems like a feel good mood providing those services holds its own for financial rewards for the banks to. Bottom. Line. There's more money inequality. A much bigger payoff for everyone. From. Wondering, this is business workday subscribe on Apple podcasts spotify the wonder after wherever you're listening right now. Join one reflection the wondering react to listen at three. I'm your host David Brown. This episode was written by Gwen Moran Reduced by Elaine Appleton. Edited. By. Important. Are Executive Producers Marshal Louis created by. Hernan Lopez. I'm always looking for ways to make my life easier. How about you? With an Amazon Smart Lighting Bundle I was able to turn my home into a smart home just minutes all I had to do is connect my new smart bulb to the echo dot and I was all set. Here's one way I'm using it right now with school being remote again, this fall I needed ideas for how to create focused time in our house. I'm trying out an Alexa routine that turns my smart ball blue place. Some calming music for thirty minutes when I say Alexa. Time? The Bulb Turns Green when focus time is over so we all know it's time for a break. Right now, you can get twenty percent off your Amazon Smart Lighting Bundle only at Amazon dot com slash bw daily. Every bundle includes an echo dot smart speaker and a single lead color changing lightbulb. Twenty percent off at Amazon dot com slash VW daily but hurry this offer ends October thirty first Amazon Dot. COM SLASH VW daily.
The Birth Of The Greenback
"N. P. R.. Stacey next. Jacob Feldstein. Planet money author of money the true story of amid up during a new book. Say I. brought props for us to do the indicator. I say. That's been months. It's been. That guy's been honking hall eight months. I have props came over so I could give you these troughs. Okay. Go ahead and look at them. All right. Okay. So, this is like a really high quality xerox of an old piece of money. THREE DOLLAR BILL RE dollar bill that's really a real thing. There's like a a lady standing next to in like a ball gown standing next to a cow to I chose a cow to pander to you I do love a cow keep going. Okay. The Orange Bank It's orange because this from the orange. Bank and this is a one dollar bill. So Stacey, these are reproductions of real paper money that was printed by private banks in the United States in the eighteen forties and fifties. This is one of the most interesting periods I found in the history of money when I was working on my book, it's this moment when the United States government did not print money, there was in fact, no single national paper currency but if you wanted to. Open Up Stacey's Bank of New York and print your own paper money. You could. I don't know if I would trust that dollar from that. Was a real problem that was a real problem we'll get to that. I. Mean they were just so many different kinds of money at one point the Chicago Tribune counted eight, thousand, three, hundred, and seventy different kinds of paper money in America. This sounds very confusing for everyone involved this indicator from planet money. I'm Stacey Vanik Smith and Jacob. Goldstein can we make eight, thousand, three, hundred and seventy, the indicator? Yes. Today on the show. How can you even have that many kinds of money and also just what does it tell us about money works? Let's just go. Let's just go a block away to get away from the horn. Yeah. Support for NPR and the following message come from fund. fundraise fund makes it easy for anyone to invest in high quality real estate by building you a portfolio with their more than one billion dollars in assets get started at fundraise dot com slash indicator to have your first ninety days of advisory fees. Waived. This message comes from NPR sponsor. Microsoft teams. Now, there are more ways to be a team with Microsoft teams bring everyone together in a virtual room collaborate live on the same page and see up to forty nine people onscreen learn more at Microsoft Dot com slash teams. So can we should set the scene here Jacob the nineteenth century America lots of is apparently also this was the era when gold and silver were money and Jacob say in the book that the government minted gold and silver coins, but it did not make paper money at that time. The exactly right. So the only paper money in America was printed by all of these different. Private banks people called paper money in fact banknotes, right. So they thought of it as like a piece of paper from a bank and they thought of paper money in particular as like a receipt or a coach ticket as as a thing that you could substitute for gold and silver, and in fact, if you look at at the bills I gave you all have this kind of. Writing like just grab a different one for fun. So we can say what it looks like. Okay. This is the stoning ten bank, a two dollar bill. There's a way. Moby Dick or something Wail Bell we've cow Bill Wail Bill So okay. So now look at the cursive writing see the cursive they're just blowers is stoning to. Two dollars to the bear on demand right and if you look all these different bills are different colors, they have different pictures on them, but they all say that will pay how ever many dollars to the on demand and so the second interest. Yeah it's an Iou because the interesting thing is it's telling you the paper money is not the real money. Right? They're saying we will give you two dollars in gold and silver for this paper money right? So the real money in this world is the underlying gold or silver the paper is just like. The Standard. So this is a time in history when there's not federal bank, there's not a national bank. There's like thousands of of little local banks and I guess all these banks can issue their own money. That's right and it's kind of evolving in this period at the beginning of this ehre the eighteen thirties. If you wanted to open a bank, typically you had to go to your state legislature and get special approval. Basically, they had to pass a special law that would let you open your bank and this was problematic because I was super corrupt essentially. Bank and print money. Then you're gonNA bribe whoever you have to. Say all the knee. All due respect to get them to let you open your bank. Right. So around eighteen forty, a little earlier, this new idea became popular. The new idea was called free banking. And the idea of free banking was anybody who is willing to follow a few basic rules could. Take and start printing money and literally start printing money and you know not surprisingly a lot of people wanted to print money. This is how we get eight thousand different kinds of money. Yes. How do you know if the bill that someone's handing you is real money or if it's literally just a piece of paper from the First Bank of Stacey Vanik Smith which might be real money. I wouldn't. Maybe. Add bribed senator so I love this so there arose in response to this problem these special periodicals Magazines that were privately published called banknote reporters. And what they were was these lists in tiny font of every kind of money. So I actually have a reproduction here another prop from a page. This one was called. Thomson's Bank note. Reporter. K.. So the people who subscribe to this merchants people who need to accept money. So so let's just say I'm running a bar and I got my thompsons bank note reporter and I come in I need a drink who thirsty I'm thirsty. So okay. So the page of the bank note reporter I printed out is for Orange Bank. Okay. Okay. So have that bill right here it is and it's a one dollar bill. So I find Orange Bank here in my Bengal reporter and it says Okay Orange Bank listed different bills and says ones and under wants it describes what the bill is supposed to look like says to horses check. Hey, Cart Jack Blacksmith shop male portrait Jack Girl. Check. So it's at least plausibly real. The reporter also tells me something else that's important and that explains a lot about how many works at this time. Typically would tell me whether I should accept that paper money at full face vowed I can buy my dollar whiskey with this whether you can get your dollar whiskey because remember what we care about is whether I can turn in that paper money for gold or silver, and so if the bank is shaky or even if it's just really far away. You know the reporter might say, just knock five cents off the dollar give Stacey Ninety five cents worth of whiskey instead of a dollar that took a really long time to buy that we ski. It does seem like it would have been absurdly inconvenient right and for a long time when people look back at this period, the basic story of free banking was just that was a horrible idea like that many kinds of money right but. Much, later, like in the nineteen seventies. This generation of economic historians started going back and looking more closely. At the banks and how money works in this period and what they saw when they really went through the numbers was basically like it wasn't that bad Bankston go bus that often people didn't usually lose much money when they used. We're you overall they would lose like a few percent which is. Kind of like what you pay today. So when you take money out of the weird off Brand ATM at. The corner store. which I always do. Yeah, I. Mean. That's basically like the the bartenders giving you ninety cents for your dollar when you do that, right? So. Obviously, we do not have eight thousand different kinds of money now this ended and it ended after the civil war. Yeah was the civil war. So during the civil war, that old American argument of can we have national banks or not came up again and Congress passed a few important banking laws. One of them basically taxed all those thousands of kind of state banknotes out of existence, and then the other one created these new national banks that printed much more reliable, much more uniform paper money. It's interesting because I mean, this was obviously after the civil war was the time when the United States went from like a collection of. To One Country, and it seems like the same thing happened with currency maybe not a coincidence. Your I mean, there is this idea at least in the modern world money is part of what makes a country a country and I think you do see that happening at this moment in the united. States when we go from thousands of kinds of money toward one uniform kind of paper money I'm just sad we lost the cow bills. Because you know Jacob I have a fever and the cure. This story in like a whole bunch of other like believable stories like this are in your new book money. The true story of a made up thing. This episode of the indicator was produced by Nick. Fountain fact check by Britney Cronin, the indicators edited by Patty hearst and is a production of NPR.
Prof. Lee Ohanian, Professor of Economics at UCLA
"Welcome to the site of accents. Podcast where we explore emerging ideas from signs policy economics and technology. My name is gill. Eappen we talk with woods leading academics and experts about the recent research or generally of topical interest scientific senses at unstructured conversation with no agenda or preparation be color a wide variety of domains. Red new discoveries are made and new technologies are developed on a daily basis. The most interested in how new ideas affect society and help educate the world how to pursue rewarding and enjoyable life rooted in signs logic at inflammation v seek knowledge without boundaries or constraints and provide unaided content of conversations bit researchers and leaders who low what they do a companion blog to this podcast can be found at scientific sense dot com and displayed guest is available on over a dozen platforms and directly at scientific sense dot net. If you have suggestions for topics guests at other ideas please send up to info at scientific sense dot com and i can be reached at gil at eappen dot info mike. Yesterday's purposely. hyon. Who's professor of economics and director of the macroeconomic research program at ucla. He is also senior fellow at the hoover institution stanford university and associate director of the center for advanced study in economic efficiency at on state university. He likes it to the federal bank of minneapolis and previously said why south Banks flooding central banks at the national science foundation. Velka much ramming yet. Thanks for thanks. So i want to start one. Older people said titled capital skill complementarity and inequality In which you say. The supply in price of skilled labor relative to unskilled labor have changed dramatically over the postwar period. The relative quantity of skill labor has increased substantially and the skill premium which is really of skin. Laborer related to that labor has grown significantly insecure. Eighty people came out in two thousand. I would imagine these things have gotten even more pronounced the last twenty years. I would imagine right. Yes that's correct that. At the time that paper was published there. Were really you know the idea. Increasing inequality and how highly educated people are really moving forward in those without a high level education struggling. That idea was just really starting around the time that wrote this paper of but now it really is is from saturn. Almost everything we see today politically socially and economically yeah and that is an accelerating trend to technology. So there's a lot of talk around artificially and i want to get your perspective on this You know in some sense. Some of the skins labor and this is. I'm just throwing this out for floor insights and debate apps up with some of the kids labor such as. Let's say a counting financial advisory services and so on argue They can all be taken up by a computers and so what they used to think. Think of is also sort of getting obsolete in the cover jeans and yes so the paper has come interesting history. So if it's okay. I'll can get together but both what i think might be going on today. And what what. What was the thesis that paper so You know so back. The nineteen nineties. Labor economists were really puzzled at the skull carries because there was explosion of people of new workers who had received four years of college. So who had a bachelor's degree and with this huge increase in college educated workers their wages. We're going up very rapidly and for those who had not would not gone to college. Their wages were growing very very slowly. So you have this puzzle which is from supply demand perspective the unskilled workers. They're they're quantity. Their numbers are not growing quickly because so many people are getting college. -cation so from a supply. Demand perspective is really a puzzle a labor economist. Kim of this idea of what the call skill biased technological change. That is there is some factored deep within the economy that was expanding the demand for highly educated highly skilled workers and that was not equally affecting those without high levels of education and this appear to be a bit of a one off because previously the history united states as economic as economies grew. It was the rising tide. The lifted all boats so so everyone seemed benefit as knowledge and technology fans but ran than the one thousand nine hundred nineties. This whatever was going on was really helping those with headlines of education but not those who didn't have that access so the paper is about i coming up with a name for what labor economist called. Skill buys tunnel logical. Change and our theory was that it was this rapid development highly powered new capital equipment. That in our eyes were making highly educated people very very productive such as you give somebody with an mba High speed computing advanced software the ability Smartphones all the information technology gums. That we've seen over the years and that really makes them incredibly productive but at the same time some of that you capitalist the place of unskilled workers. So that have the papers capital skill complementarity and inequality said the idea. Was this new capital was complimenting compliment to highly skilled workers but it was a substitute for for unskilled workers. And what we found in. That paper is that Is that that theory cannock house. The data remarkably closely Now kinda come back full circle to to your questions about today. What i'm doing right now with With one of my since ucla and then one of my former students who now works at the federal reserve board. We're re estimating that model using data In the last twenty five years that that was not obviously not available. When we. When i when i and my coffers published that paper two thousand and what we're finding is that there's a little bit less complementarity between this new capital goods and skilled workers meaning that The new capital gains are providing less of a product to the kush to these highly skilled workers. A little bit less while we found before so this consistent with the idea that hey you know this new remark us new remarkable apple goods not only can substitute for us labor less skilled labor but they might be able to substitute somewhat for how the skilled labor as well such as the areas of law. Lana conic as you mentioned with Artificial intelligence so yes. We'll have to watch this. As as as a i continues to grow and And weather that is a substitute for lawyers and physicians and accountants Or whether that frees them up to use their remarkable minds to be able to do different things in which those technologies will be a compliment so remains to be seen. He has an exciting so from technology prospectively. A under two things going on one is you could think of robotics Replacing humans In the low skill area so much of the manufacturing that of talk about a nuts and bolts manufacturing assembly and so on increasingly humans are replaced by robotics. And then on the top end as you said is Is getting into a skilled labor to both end of the spectrum at the as to be affected by emerging technologies. yes exactly gil You know when we think about what's going on with less skilled labor my favorite example is Is what happened with international trade. So you don't have to go back in time to nineteen fifty Though world was coming out of world war two international commerce was just reemerging There about ten thousand people who worked in the ports of new york and new jersey and these were a long term. Might you know big big strong guys with with wales strong backs who and they would walk onto his ship and they pick up a box and then they bring the box off the ship and offload it and and then when the ship was emptied they would pick boxes new boxes up and put them back on the ship and the ship would sail away and that was ten ten ten thousand longshoremen. Were involved in those jobs and today there's maybe instead of ten thousand people working. There's maybe eight hundred people working and every single one is a college grad operating one of those remarkably sophisticated cranes uc that picks up A twenty or thirty thousand pound container and that off the ship and then puts a new container back on the ship. So we've seen a and at the same time. Despite that penfold drop in the number of people working the expansion in international trade. This occurred between thanking fifteen. Today's is increased by a factor of thirty or forty so that's just a remarkable productivity expansion But that was the case of highly skilled workers and machines taking the jobs of low skill. People an app today when we talk about ai you know we there's there's pattern recognition software that can they can look at an mri imaging Or cd scan imaging and at some point. I don't think it's there yet but at some point it'll be able to recognize tumors and abnormalities on in those images maybe as well as a radiologist So then you say well you know why don't we need the radiologist. We can just run these. We can just run the mri through through through through some software and we can get the same reading at a at a tiny fraction. The crossed the beauty of machines is that they don't complain and they can work twenty four hours it'd be actually video Readings at fatigues big. Concern you know in terms of the Humans in that job so we have similar things so lately. I don't know if this is the case Uc hiking jobs affected by us. Sort of see demand taxing sort of lower end jobs. That's robotics believe in depth with the premium to be highest sought. Middle these these but in blurted you type premium function in the future when it's Something i'm gonna work on some point. It's it's a big big endeavor. And i need some people to join me with us. But when we think about technological change in and whether it's is going to substitute for someone or whether it's gonna really compliment someone skills A lot of the literature is destroyed. Take that forgiven. Just a okay. Well here here's a machine that can substitute for an accountant. And here's a machine that can substitute for for a long sherman out strong back. Who can pick up a lot of weight But that technology that the technological changes being directed in some ways and You know when you mention fishing regimes don't complain. You don't need to give him like you know lunch breaks and And were disability payments That that's really what you mentioned. Because in robotics was developed A big chunk of lose to bell back in the early nineteen seven eastern audience street. Because at that time the You know there's actually no competition in among among car producers it was gm and ford chrysler gm kind of you know set. Here's what we're doing and then chrysler and ford followed them in the late ninety six. That was really before honda and nissan and toyota. You know they're there really. Were you know hardly any car. Imports speak and there were always You know very damaging very destructive other strikes where you know half a million people would go would go on strike And it was you know it was obviously bad for the company was you know is bad for the workers as bad so that badge the economy so people jam said you know this. This is getting out of hand We're gonna try. And there's actually a quote from gm executive where where during a strike where he says. We're going to automate away from order as they started developing a robotic arms for you know for example Pink pinning hearts which now is obviously routinely done but this was over fifty years ago. And that's not. The technology just wasn't far enough along so the you know the robots ended up in a string themselves rather than random pain the cars but but from the standpoint of what types of high technologies are developed. They can either substitute or complement workers. you know. There's a reason why there's a reason why people are working on what they work on it. At that time it was very much to try to move away from labor. that was creating problems so Yeah so that's the best fascinating story that that i think needs to be told at a broader level in deeper level. Yeah i know that. Involved with the federal reserve in minneapolis and other other federal banks from mcfaul ac- perspective. What's our current thinking. We know that this happening patchy in different industries who's not uniform obviously But excluding to have a significant effect On jobs on people in general and at and more generally the economy so do cavs some policy direction after observing. What's happening if we look at the skills okay. So if we're going to be labor. Economists for second i will and we take a look at what skills are most valued in the marketplace. Right now. i'm and what the market price of the skills are. There's a big premium on critical thinking a big premium on creativity A big premium on communication skills as we continue to grow into a service sector economy. All those things will continue to be highly valued and the us You know we We haven't done a great job in implementing innovations and you ideas in case you. Twelve education You know back in the day My back into that. Menial fits sixty years ago. You had by far best. K through twelve education system in the world from the standpoint of of standardized testing today were way down on that They're poor countries. We're in which kids do much better in science and math in our kids. So that's something we really have to address And we think a bad critical thinking and logical thinking and the ability to combine imagination with the discipline of structured thanking That's that's hard to do for all of this I mean you do that. I do that but You know for everybody. Some of no matter how good you are. It's always a bit of a struggle and that's something that really can be developed You know early on in childhood so that so we're not doing a good job on that And from national education policy. Point of view i think there are things we can do You know you whether it's You know no child left behind or common core. These policies are are not being effective From the standpoint that you know a small number kids They go on to harvard. Princeton stanford they're remarkably well prepared and then they're bunch of kids who are coming out of There's a story about a year ago. A kid who went through school in san francisco Which has the highest salaries In the country within any city. I'm this whole home to enormous technology presence and the escape graduated from high school with all fs you know. He just kept getting you know pushed through and he gets out of highschool. He has absolutely really no marketable skills. So there's really a haven't had that aspect to education that that we really need defects and i think Even at the top end. I think We can we can do better before you know before covert was. You know there wasn't really all that much change in how we were teaching kids You know in two thousand and in two thousand nineteen versus how we teach him in one thousand nine hundred seventy so I think we can do a lot there to help them. Develop structured thinking logical thinking It's gonna take some policy. Reforms and teachers unions are going have to be more flexible in terms of accommodating future kenya which is your lifetime. Employment that california that can occur after year and a half and also implementing Merit based pay most cases teachers get seniority-based pay and implementing scales that. Take into account the year that you wanna hear really good math teacher science teacher. I mean you've got to pay him well because they have a lot of outside opportunities So the best teachers are incredibly productive valuable and and we should be paying them that way. Yeah so that makes so it's really setting the initial conditions if you missed that Than either you miss a window of fixing data delayed a time is much more expensive. Ed so it is really kinda focusing back on education. Just really briefly. The does some Some different thinking on that for instance The us we have on flexibility in education of liberal arts education vaccination countries than to be sort of prescriptive and heidi focus There's some thinking that that actually doesn't improve innovation and creativity. Do you have a deal that Go to just make sure i understand. Could you just a little liberal more backups. Yeah so. I grew up in india for example as an example So you know bear High school college level education. You're already sort of selecting the The path you're going to go You know whether you're going through engineering medicine or something like that. And so you're specializing early And and the portfolio of subjects or or Ideas that you're going to learn is going to be much less divorce. That's general trend in that. Believe in asian countries better than the us. I think we have more flexibility. And the portfolio of subjects case be tempted. Learn a broader I think Yeah yeah two two different models And and germany germany. The model you just described For example for india would be similar to what was done in germany as some other european countries So i don't know if. I think the jury is still out on On the future consequences of that what There's a sense in which the model you're describing can be very effective I thinking very very effective when we When we have really kind of a good idea of where the where the child is so so you know just using analogy if it's the kind of the case of Hey hey. I'm a vegetarian than you know okay. We know this person's vegetarian. Or hey. I'm a meat eater reno. This person mediator. And i think the challenge is that e- i think you know i mean my view. Is that even for kids. That early on that are really struggling and maybe have really looked. scores It might be just because you know we're not reaching the right way So i've been teaching at the university level. I'm since nineteen ninety. Two of his. You know i've been doing this. Twenty eight years and in that time I learned so much about teaching. And how to get to poke whether they're are college freshman or whether they're hd student work on a dissertation creating new economic knowledge And every year. I do this. I learned more about what it means to reach. Somebody and sometimes you have to do different things to reach people And what. I worry about terms of algae described as It could be remarkably productive for some for some kids but we might really be missing the boat on some other kids And if the standpoint that human beings incredibly complex in the brain is amazing organ that can do nearly enough and a number of things If we can learn more about how to reach different types of kids we might. We might see some breakthroughs of kids that That you know when the lightbulb goes off you know. I think we all have the ability to have the lightbulb gloss. Go off worse and then we can figure out which which direction to go in And sometimes mattress. You'll how do we get the light bulb. Go offer them I think we're still learning how to do that right right. I had to jump into the people which is a different topic. Altogether phillips coons used for forecasting in inflation I remember learning a bunch of scarves strong time but forgotten all about it so tips curve used as an equation that relates the unemployment rate or some other measure of aggregate economic activity to Inflation rate and more specifications of phillips curve equations relate the employment to future changes in the rate of inflation. So this is This is not a tape construct that this is just a is ambulance ovation or what. It's called the phillips curve idea. Start yeah yeah okay so in a nutshell resisting columnists him. A w phillips And and he was he was he was from new zealand And so you're absolutely right. It's a it's not a theoretical concept like like you know the higher the price the less of the good weak demand rather he just family can scatter plot of data that there is an inverse relationship between the unemployment rate and and How fast wages were changing. So that looking at data from the nineteen forties and nineteen fifties. He saw low unemployment existed when the rate of nominal wage change know how fast people salaries you're on up going up measured in dollars When when wages were going fast unemployment was low and and when unemployment is high wages were up slowly So this is purely empirical issue and he became really famous for his fault. Now all the folks curve and I i've been to salt Within federal reserve system for a long time And so back about twenty years ago one of the guys working with in fact A long story short he was encompassed in minneapolis. Said and i was consulting. There is same as antioch and later he joined me at ucla so ucla now restart asking well you know. It's not really in the data to the extent that people think it is so we wrote this paper where we constructed the same scatter plots. We looked at the inflation rate. We didn't look at nominal. Wage changes like philip did because the think-i at morphed into more about just price inflation so reproduce them scatter plots of unemployment and price inflation. We found very little relationship in the data And then what we did was we compare the federal reserve systems forecasts for inflation that were based on this idea of phillips kirk so the fed would say. Hey unemployment is high right now okay. There's very little risk of of a future inflation so that can help us. Guide monetary policy. We can we confront a lot of money or whatever they call it I'm sorry that's a book had great. Yeah the green book forecasts. Yeah yeah and so what we found is we developed a really simple forecasting mile that just said inflation for quarter now is going to be about what it is today so For for people familiar with that it would be such like a random walk model or martingale and You know so. We compared the forecast set. No one in the last we came up with. Were better on average and we also prepared them to some forecasts produced by Jim scotch using He's me Jim stock economists at harvard. mark watson suppressant. They do allow to work on forecasting macroeconomic data and and their forecast for worse as well so So kind of fat you know so so so when we wrote. This paper is really easy paper. Right 'cause there's no complicated models for math in it and so the research director the minneapolis said he goes to the federal open market committee meeting in washington so every six weeks. The federal reserve meets the board of governors in washington. Dc and then the president's and the research directors of the regional feds in the minneapolis. Fed is one of those. They all go there. Meet every six weeks to talk monetary policy so the research director are rolling says. Hey and a joke. Two of my guys have written this paper about inflation. Forecasting the phelps scriven. You know they're they're finding that there's not much to the idea of the folks from the data in the forecast aren't very good so young lady only as he's said just silence going to quote through room and you know so. He presented the statistics and then pretty much every research department and the fed reserve and in the board of governors replicated. What we did which which was easy to do easy to replicate and And so now you know twenty years later you see. In the new york times wall street journal the economist magazine now. You're starting to see a broader critiques about phillips curve forecasting to guide monetary policy but But it hasn't really been in the data for. I mean we. We are papers published twenty years ago almost twenty years ago and we were Data those nearly eight so the yet. Yeah i guess is is is a is a slow moving boat to turn it around but i but they're aware of it But you know those ideas are they day off. It takes help for them to die off. Yeah especially when you put a name on it. It becomes a tool because electoral success. And i guess you know especially in economics people start to use it and And the not looking back from a from a category perspective awesome and so so so what. You're finding the condition of despair but a thing is that The idea of the phillips curve might have fit some set of data early on but it doesn't really sit in your data that we be see at least contemporary sense way. No no the Are important possible. -cation which is if the feds. Thanks that oh if unemployment's high then we can very safely conduct monetary policy that would otherwise increase inflation. But it won't because unemployment is high will view that views not that use ver-very misperceived in in policy-making. You might be dangerous if that if that if that road is taken so yeah so it Yeah but you're absolutely right These these things do diehard in. Yeah once was name is associated with them and people get get locked you know. They kind of get wet to them. It takes a while for these cities to change yet. Did take a quick break. Leave and come back with a little bit about the great depression district of taxes said one of your Data speed versus. Well great. Thank you this is a scientific sense. Podcast providing unscripted conversations bit leading academics and researchers on a variety of topics. If you like to sponsor this podcast please reach out to info. At scientific sense dot com. So you're back You have added a paper This two thousand four new deal policies and persistence of the great depression. It generally reclaim analysis. you say there are two striking aspects of the colori from the depression in the us. The was video bleak and real beaches slow significantly about trend You saved data congress With the neoclassical which critics strong recovery slowed basis. Now is the the government was policy client to do this specifically or this was just an outcome of right things did so i'll just. I'll just try to be really brief. Just take a moment has yet to set the stage about this. So as a as a kid You know my my grandparents said had gone through the great depression. So i had Young silent you know as like any doubt. Hey what was life like. You're young and so forth. And then it they both my grandparents prince on my mom's side. My dad's side. Both just really really struggle economic almost lost their home and lost their jobs and i just thought how could how could something like that happened because it is a complete one off then great depression at twenty five percent unemployment. Well before covid we had. We had like three or four percent on. I just kinda see i thought about. How could that happen. And part of that motivated me to go to get a piece geographical. And when and when i was in grad school and got the stage of writing dissertation i told my advisers head he had. I really liked write a dissertation about the great pressure. I'm really trying to figure that out. And they looked at this and no no no. You don't want your way too risky for young person. Do they said you have tenure can take you can take of big risk So kind of fast. Ford finished my phd at university. Rochester and my first teaching job was as an assistant professor at the university of pennsylvania and which had a great department And then. I was fortunate enough to get an offer to go to university of minnesota which At that time had the best Macroeconomics department of the country. One of my mom my colleagues there was a at prescott and ed received the noble prize In two thousand four. So when i got there. I said you'll ed ed what what's up with the great depression he goes. You know as we need new theory for that just is one so folks. My colleague A good friend. How long have you start thinking about this. And it just young war. We got into it. The more puzzling. Because after nineteen thirty-three ev. Everything looked like we should. We should be having a kind of a rocket ship recovery Usually the farther the goes down the faster at bounces back. And all the all the seats weren't place Productivity growth was very very high the banking sector had been stabilized By a implementing deposit insurance and the sec was born at that time so the financial system was well and we'd and clinical social safety net programs of that time with unemployment insurance and social security was born at that time Bone you'll get the data in the data talk about is the amount of work Number the number of our worked being done in the market divided by the working population. So that's the measure of work to think about total hours of work divided by the working age population valley's lower in eighteen thirty seven and it was in nineteen thirty two years so there was there was really there was no recovery and ours works. We just thought well. Why not you know what you think about people. Want to work you know. They're they're hungry. They wanna pay the rent and they want to buy food for their families and and businesses wanna make process so what standing in the way of that so so the the the papers about something called the national industrial recovery act and was really cool back that it. It was devastating for the economy but from the standpoint of research is really striking because at that time people thought about economics totally differently. A thought competition. What was a bad thing And this policy coca national industrial recovery act was essentially full-scale carla's -ation in collusion of the non-farm us economy and so what this manage you. Was that every industry. And there were over five hundred of them ranging from the women's hosiery industry to autos in the idea was were producers to get together and said crisis the sherman and clayton on entrust acts were banded. Now that those were all about. Hey not supposed to set prices so roosevelt. Fdr and his advisors had this idea that cash of we could just get prices up than we'd have recovery while had prices they. They tried to do that through collusion. So the idea was producers were able to collude and set a high price provided that they raise the wages of their workers. So that was the deal and so that was the policy and today standpoint we say hey you know what implementing monopoly is not a good idea if you want to expand employment and output and then setting wages way above the competitive level Going to limit the number of people you're going to hire because but so they would to really fight deflation that that was a that was. Yeah they were they were. They were trying to fight deflation. They thought if we just kept prices up in wages you know. Hey we'll have a we'll have a great we'll have a great economy and and what what made them what made them think. Bathroom was that They went back to kind of wartime logic. So they thought you know. Hey the the government managed economy during world war one and you know the world war one economies okay so the government can take over mansion economy now during peacetime when we should. We should get a good outcome. So the government's gonna step in and we're going to. We're going to artificially raise prices artificially raise wages in. There is a real confusion about what causes what and sadly this was a disaster for the economy and that millions of people wanted to get work but wages were set way too high and prices were set way too high and at the end of the day. Prices were sufficiently high. The consumers didn't wanna biologics stuff and when consumers want to buy allows us the producers not gonna expand investment or hiring new workers so it was It was economic disaster love and so seems sort of simplistic in the sense that Imagine a fighting deflation by just setting prices at the highest level and then hope that everything is going to fall into. Place seems seems lease. Nibley naive right that that. That's all they were thinking about ninety five percent of it. Yeah yeah they just thought on deflate this deflationist destructive and they and they ended deflation. You know deflate ended after roosevelt took office and there was probably there's about two percent and the price will jumped and there's about two percent inflation after and interestingly enough roselle made a speech in z. Thirty seven. thirty eight where he said he basically said we made a mistake. He said the economies become a cartel system and around that time those policies began changing and about that time we started having recovery around nineteen thirty nine and nineteen forty because we stopped promoting cartels inclusion and once we got to world war two There's this common view that the big increase in government spending is what brought the economy out of the great depression. That had just persisted. Well one until story. Beth that is that roosevelt essentially pull the rug out under from unions then. Ira was all about pushing wages up Guess declared unconstitutional. This popular gets declared unconstitutional thirty miles but it was defacto continued in that. The government didn't pursue any antitrust basically turned a blind eye to collusion in nineteen thirty five and The national labor relations act was upheld that same time and wages jumped even more so we get to nineteen forty to the national labor board comes along and roosevelt has meeting with the heads of all the major unions and they and he and he says you know. We have to expand production. I'd i wanna have a no strike commitment from you and they said sure will do still get collectively bargain. And he said yeah you. Collectively bargain is fine. But i but. I don't wanna i don't wanna see any strikes. They said okay. A problem so about six months later. Bethlehem steel announces a very high wage. Increase with your steelworkers The national war labor board strikes down and said nope no wage increases beyond cost of living and the unions. Come back to roseland. They're really upset and they said we collectively bargain and he said we have course national labor board. I can't i. Can't i can't with recissions armed interesting enough on you. Know kind of cut to the chase by nineteen forty eight. The relationship between wages and productivity Was back to its level that it was a nineteen in the in the nineteen twenties and in the nineteen thirties. Wages relative to productivity. Were super high. So when you mention you know. Isn't this simplistic yeah. It was because what's relevant is the wage relative to worker productivity and policies drove wages relative to productivity about twenty percent above where they should have been as cuss quest. You know we didn't solve the the unemployment problem. Yes oh did it have the thirty seven Disaster time did did those policies have some sort of long-term society. Actually you know. I am thinking You know people who have jobs it. You talk was creating a class system rate high unemployment but those jobs doing a better And collusion cartel like systems so lee losing power capital getting higher returns did did it really have a sort of a clue defect on society yesterday right. It definitely created classes in because those who had jobs. They felt so lucky that they had them because they were they were earning our at the same time there out the window and seeing a line of workers the door saying you know with writing applications this thinking you know for the grace of god for the grace of god. I'm sitting here with a job in those guys don't have them So when we think about any cloudy a horrible time training quality And it was really policy policy-induced and when we think when we sort of be a move forward a out of the war the nineteen fifties. Were time where. There's a lot of economic growth and you know going back to our discussion about About low skill labor and and their economic success thousand time. When if you could have a high school you could. You could be is graduate. Maybe nine behind graduate. But you can have one of these really good jobs in at us deal or gm or ford or union carbide and getting good benefits and getting good salaries And you're able to do that because you face. No competition and then as the war became globalized and trade. Berries came down as suddenly steel has to compete with foreign skill and gm has to compete with honda and toyota Kind of the jig was up and we think about Those were the days when Read i've read some some Some books written by people who lived in pittsburgh when it was. You know it was this. Big steel tanner lifting detroit when that was flourishing. And they would say you know. We kind of knew that this was going to end. It was just too good to be true. And you look at pittsburgh in. It's is a third of is this the third of his former cise and detroit's a third record as former size So this morphed into an economy where we just couldn't sustain the type of compensation that was being delivered to people who who may not have had the education trained to be able to compete in today's world and And we're kind of seeing the reminiscent of that now which is which went wise. I think it's so important to really try to implement a k. Through twelve or forms and try to boost everybody up to get to a point where they can be competitive. The good part of doing bad things that begin done from it. hopefully yes. Exactly yeah we. Yeah we still faced we still face some headwinds in those challenges but But you know for example. One ears seeing has sharon california a felony marshall tuck Campaigned as you know for state school superintendent. She had some really interesting ideas. specialist base. Pay the idea that you pay math teachers really well if it's hard to hire good math. Teacher merit based pay Modest reformed teacher tenure. Continue teacher training Pay premiums to teachers administrators in poor school areas and He came really close to winning. It was interesting to democratic Both people ran for that office for both democrats And tuck had a lot of money. From school reformers Any lost by maybe one percentage point so i think the ideas are starting to get there so yeah i think we are learning for learning. From this yeah. I went to touch on one other paper. The long-term changes legal supply and taxes evidence from oecd countries. Looking at a dasa beta here. Nineteen sixty six two thousand four lord different countries. Have you document. Large differences in trends changes in hours worked at grocery oecd countries between fifty. Six two thousand four so you are. You're equating the change in our do tax crises. Yeah yeah so when. I did this paper And i did this with my former seuss soon. Ucla and Who andrea. Roth was not the fed reserve board in richard rodgers. Sin who jesus cranston we looked at data Across countries in overtime and within countries that are part of the so. The cd is Is it's a group of kind of advanced develop pure countries Organization economic cooperation development So the idea is that they that they tried to. They try to develop policies that are integrative in in you promote economic economic welfare and wellbeing. So this is. Us canada western. Northern europe East asia such as japan and south korea australia new zealand so we looked at data on you know all this large group of countries over time and we to striking patterns one is that Western europe countries germany france northern finland sweden. These were countries. That worked just an enormous amount back. The nineteen fifties and nineteen sixties About one thousand. Four hundred hours kerr adult per year. And that's just remarkable when you take an account forty hours a week for fifty weeks a year two thousand hours and germany. They were working fourteen hundred hours per person per week but a lot of adults are not working. They're in their home taking care of kids or doing other things And then you'll germany. Their hours worked adults fallen thirty. Five or forty percent in the same for france in the same for italy the same for all these european countries and they had enormous increases in tax rates. And then you look at the. Us or canada our new zealand and the amount of hours worked per adult was pretty stable and they didn't have big changes in tax raise. Sweet vaulting vanik mile to try to quantify the importance of changes in taxes and we complimented that with a lot of regressions And what we found is tax. The big increase in taxes that occurred in europe and west a big increase in taxes. I mean attacks rate that went from about twenty eight percent in the nineteen fifties to about fifty percent by the nineteen eighty nine hundred ninety s so big increase in taxes and we found that that could quantitatively count for much The decline in how much market work was being done in europe And we've had some really cool you as a couple of countries decided that. Hey hey we've lost so much work we're going to reform taxes we're gonna reduced tax rates and And then we see late. We see hours worked expanding In those countries in the data and the mall expansion as well and that You know when we first published that young. A lot of people thought it's not it's not taxes young europeans were class. Because you know they they like the good life. They like sitting in cafes or or in a glass of wine You know by the by the san river and And so then. I tell him well no. They used to work even more than us and then the young then. They're just being silenced in the in the summer room so Yeah this is This one of my most highly cited papers Yes todd and a lot of classes because it is provocative And as quantitatively is seems to to do the job so the punchline is that that high tax rates do seem to matter quite a bit and If you if you think about european economies people appointed to problems nickname. That's been around for a long time. It's call euro-sclerosis. You know the that. Those economies are stagnant And they're not growing very fast and their best. People wanna leave Entrepreneurship is low job creation. Slow well in our view taxes are one reason why this case so is it. Is it as simple as Lee that the taxes are higher Becomes essentially more attractive so people don't people just obey from from bloating asian. That's that's exactly right does exactly right. And you know we're measuring market work and what is going on. I think the prime not just not just sitting having having a coffee but they're probably doing kind of under the radar stuff so Fix you're saying and you help me with my accounting books And then you know we kind of say okay. In on that and we avoid the government we avoid the government being are silent partner And that obviously is a huge measurement challenge but But to the best economists who studied that they indicate that yeah. It looks like there's a lot more underground economic activity going on in those european countries Then there's the united states for canada. So i want to finish up with are the latest paper. That just came out tom. Sharing the golden empire state land use restrictions and the us economic slowdown. So so you're looking at new york and california and some of that land use restrictions put on both of these states and how that might affect economic activity. Yeah yeah there's been alive. Interest in the idea that housing prices a become solheim. The united states particularly in areas such as california predicts the california coast New york city. A lot of a lot of commercial helps A lot of economic activity going on some california's includes silicon valley and san francisco and la and san diego and then obviously New york city So this paper uses data on price of housing and how many workers there are out productive those workers. Aren't you state and that did it gets run through an economic model. That spits out. How severe regulations are the et make housing expensive or impede extraction housing and You know what we find. Is that california in new york in particular have imposed very stringent housing regulations. This includes things like zoning. This includes The application a local environmental laws The may not that the people who that people bring lawsuits based on environmental reasons when sometimes vokes lawsuits might have more. Do with know not in my backyard. Or hey if there's going to be a big development down the street from me. I wanna get something out of that And we find that economic activity that if we could roll those regulations back to say what they were in nineteen ninety Or alternatively we look at a counterfactual of rolling those regulations back to what texas does. Texas is relatively unregulated and unrestricted in terms of land. Use and what we find is that it would make. It would make a big difference real. Gdp would be much much higher In california and new york would be much much larger if we did that. Yes so. If i understand his late so you know suppose you know be internalized or and blind mental us and suppose that new york arizona policies are. Let's say for argument's sake optimum from that from that viewpoint it doesn't really matter unless we have a consistent policy across the country right because in states do it The the dow foam is going to be businesses Do some of the state and we will have the same aggregate negative sect. That's exactly perfect economic reason And if we take a little bit more broadly That's also the reason why states should be somewhat consistent in how they try to attract business more broadly Because we don't want to have kind of a beggar beggar-thy-neighbour type policy So that's exactly right. National standards would be the way to go here because Life for example in california We're losing jobs and businesses. They're because it's very costly to do business here not just land relations but also state taxes. tesla just announced. They were leaving. hewlett packard ill which on the founders of silicon valley. Ironically sheila packers leading. And they're they're all gone to texas where You know there's no staying compacts Business regulations low cost of living is low My oldest son is thinking of buying a house Just outside dallas. And you know. He's looking at a four bedroom. Three bath house that that would cost. You know five times as much if he were divide here in california. So that's a great point you make We really need to have national standards in states need to cooperate yet so in conclusion league Is that possible for us. The federal system that we have You know get looking forward. Five years ten years That as you said national policies is only on beating. Squint the sec. The same dignity coolidge institution it s and other other things done by one state or two. It necessarily help because we don't have borders You know. I stayed borders. And so so the chances do effect national policies along these lines. Yeah you asked. A great question is really difficult because we do. Have we have the fifty states and they would have to be a general recognition among those states. That hey you know what the right thing to do is to cooperate. Of course the challenges here in california. The top tax rate is thirteen percent in texas. It's zero so we can dream the dream that this could happen Maybe more realistic dream would be that. The california wakes up and decides that our regulations and taxes and cream land use restrictions are just way too onerous and we need become working petted if And i suspect that probably will happen at some point So i think we can. Maybe hope i think we can hope we can move the needle a little bit I doubt we'll ever be able to kind of get everybody on the same page. I wish we could but But i don't think that's going to happen here. Yeah i i think that's the case The back of this also is sort of tactically shoes like the pandemic that the dealing but the deterrent national policies. Even in the case of a pandemic began defense national policies Began really slow down to spread of the disease. Either but that's exactly right because you know states will rightly point to use. That makes them different so they can say what were we. Don't have the landmass that has or are we have a different industrial mix than delaware and they can point to a lot of individual differences in in what goes on in their states that realistically can lead them to have different preferences for different policies and yes avenue. We had You know some states have larger elderly populations than others and those states suffered more from the pandemic. So yeah is is is definitely a challenge and it would need your very strong and comprehensive leadership at the federal level. I think that habit excellent yet. this has been greatly. thanks so much. Spending time with me. Yours is a pleasure. Thank you for having me really appreciate it. This is a scientific sense. Podcast unscripted conversations bit leading academics and researchers on a variety of topics. If you like to sponsor this podcast please reach out to in full. At scientific sense dot com.
Episode 335: Joe Baratelli, EVP and CCO at RPA
"Mrs don't get me started is a conversation about advertising. And here's your host freelance creative director and creative circus department. Head dan balser yes. Welcome back for another episode of the podcast. Thank you for sticking with to show and listening during all this is For a long time as i said i recorded these constantly and published in every two weeks for fourteen years and now i'm sitting at my desk. I'm looking out the window. I'm sitting at the same effing desk at. I've been at for a year and i'm wearing my cova close. I think joe's noticing wearing a hoodie and a t shirt. And i'm like basically just like dealing with the pandemic and so much appreciate Joe's doing this with me today. He's in new york although he's based in la. And i've done that trip and it seems simple to fly from la to new york but like it's kind of exhausting. The other ways ought easier but coming this way so thank you so much for getting up so listeners. This joe burrow tally. As you know he is executive vice president and chief creative officer chief creative officer at rpi in santa monica california. He's been there for thirty six years. It's amazing and i'm gonna let him talk a little bit about the agency but right now the clients include apartments dot com honda arco cedars-sinai farmers insurance. So you have him to thank her blame for farmers. We are farmers jingle Los angeles clippers into it quickbooks lazy boy southwest airlines among others and before we started recording was telling that back when i was a student beginning. My career. ruben post aren't associates which is now. Rpa was was considered one of the top creative shops. And i think that has never slipped from that from that mantle at some point. We'll get through some of these honors and awards but on this list of honors and awards pulling up to camera for him to see the things stand out to me are are among the ken. Lions and the emmy award nomination in one show pencils. There are two or three efi awards and for listeners. it don't know effie awards. are there. The reason we do this business. Those are based on effectiveness where they do sorta hallmark testing pro- pre and post the campaign. And when you can win creative awards and effie awards the same work. It says a lot about where you're Priorities and your focus has an agency lies so joe. Thank you so much. Welcome to The microphones the remote conversation. Thank you so much for doing this. Yeah well thank you for having me. This is this is great. It's a it's an honor to be honest appreciate that so tell the listeners. Who might not be familiar with rpa. I didn't want to just read the summary off of your linked in about the. It's an independent agency right. So tell us about. Your resident expert tells us about the culture and the priorities and sort of tells us a little bit about rpa for people who might not know the agency. yeah we'll Were independent agency. We've been Santa monica or side of los angeles for Going on thirty six years now believe and the the story about the agency's pretty interesting I happened to be there at the time. What happened was there was a big merger and That was kind of the trend back in the eighties any be. Ob and Needham harper which the agency. I was working for at the time merge to form omni cow and when those mergers happened there's conflicts of interests between different accounts and there were a couple of bottom of accounts and play here at honda was one of them so just so listeners. No you can't have an agency with two competing clients okay. Yeah that's that's You know kind of You know the the role of engagement for a long time. And so what. What happened was they felt In their wisdom forming this this big conglomerates or holding company that Honda was gonna be jettison from that from that group. And so Jerry rubin the are and larry stare the p sided that went to the folks and said hey. What if we bought this office. If you will or you know made it made a deal to take over take over the opposite making an independent shop. Well the story goes that they had to go down to honda. Make sure they were comfortable with that before the hundred or so people that were involved in the la office You know they were gonna be be able to stay on so You know what was great. Great story there is jerry. Rubin went down to talk to the president of north america and said. Hey here's what's going on and first reaction will why us why. Why aren't we the ones that You know or are being jettisoned kind of told them the story and but what the the end result was was he asked. If we're going to form this new agency will will the people state insane and that was the guarantee that yes we would all we would all be there still. It would be the same group of people that have been doing over sir award winning work put-on on the map at the time and The greed and that's the agency was formed. So it's it's interesting to me that they would feel like they were being jettisoned that they were the ones being excluded from the big agency but then really does always boil down to the people right. This is a theme. That's coming out on these conversations a lot. I think because buildings mean less and less this year right is that it is all about the the people so it's really just the name on the check zoll different but the relationship and look you look at the record of of our p. a. and honda some really significant incredible beautiful work so to win. Yeah it really was a win for. I think oliver clients at the time and for us especially in we'd better good partner for them and They've been a great client for us back to back back then. You had california yokohama. Tyres miller's outpost los angeles marathon patel hotel disney channel fidelity federal bank right. So let's talk a little bit about that. Sorry interrupted you. What i think. I cut you off but you an art director at the time right. So what was the feeling going through your mind. Had you already started when the purchase happened and the break apart happened. I mean what's going through your mind at that at that moment as a young creative. Yeah well it was a little different time But yes i was there. I was working for harper worldwide. At the time. So i'd been there about a year and i remember distinctly seeing a little byline in the wall street journal. That's how we got our news from newspapers back then and it was just a couple of words. That was the kind of mentioned that there might have been a rumor that a couple of agencies were thinking of urging and of course as young creative at that point i was probably like i better get my book together because who knows where this is going to lead and you know that that was really all we had to go with until jerry rubin called us in You know to the main kind of gathering area that we had in the building at the time and you know kind of told us what was going on and the plan for us to spinoff so at that point It was it was a sigh of relief on all hundred of us especially me that we were going to be able to stick together the same group of people with the same clients and the if it was good that way but it was a little unnerving in order to hear these rumors Because it's not as What do i wanna say direct. The you know the communication these days is a little faster and a little more direct so all those things there. Top secret are always rumors about these things. You know these are wall street. Decisions and insurance stuff has to be kept quiet. It all worked out so talk to me about this. Then shift gears a little bit back to you so executive vice president chief creative officer. So what is your job day to day. And have you noticed. Changes in your job over the years or have been sort of a seamless progression. So talk a little bit about what you do every day and then we'll talk a little bit about how your career has has because this is a this is a very unique opportunity to talk to someone who's been at the same basically the same agency for i'd say all career so talk a little bit about to start off with like. What do you do these days. You know. I like to think that. I'm you know just kind of encouraging people To be the best they can be Be that you know. Creatively or being a good Understanding our client's business looking for you know when we're developing work. It's all about the end results. The results are helping our businesses. Our clients businesses grow. And you know. So what what i try to be champion of good work that we all think this is going to achieve that and along with that is bringing the talents in and got great people to help me do this to Is to you know by that by that talent and bring oh man and make sure they fit it in with the team and be able to achieve those things so i spent a lot of my time around that you know talking to people looking at work but i'm not the not guy that the puts puts his thumbprint on things. I i have people that help. Guide other people but encourage those people to help guide and You know. I think. I think that's really i think the other part of it is having the You know the reputation or or the authority to you know help help make decisions make decisions for the direction of the agency but also help our clients make decisions. I think we have a long track record of helping our clients and they see the consistency of leadership within the agency. And i think they appreciate bat. So when i might not speak up often but what i do hopefully People hear what. I have to say and take that into consideration as we move things you know. We're we're helping. Big big companies may make big important decisions in their business. And you need to be that trusted partner to be able to do that. So i kind of seeing myself in that role these days you said so much right. There is a couple of things. I want to follow up on that. I i Obviously i would assume given this client list. You're stuck with these agencies. I'm sorry that these clients have stuck with you is and vice versa. because there's a mutual respect and they listen to you. You understand their their problems right. Have you had a situation. We've had a client that that really wasn't as open to sort of being told an or have you found that that some clients are really self aware and some aren't self aware. Because i i remember early on in my career there were moments when even in the middle of my career as a a cd or cd where you can see so clearly what they should do and they don't see it so talk to me a little bit about the ideal client relationship in house. That has sometimes gone wrong. You said it down you know Respect is really at the core of of of that you know when You know of course in the past the clients that have come and gone. You know it might not have been a good fit or it might not might not have seen aieda. I in what the what the ultimate goals are and how to achieve those goals. But you know what we're always talking about is kind of trying to keep a long lasting relationship. I i'm a big believer that obviously stage at the same place for for a long time but having a long-term ability to work with these clients and help them achieve their goals. Everything takes time and things change You know in the marketplace or you know in the world and we have to. They need us. We need them of course but they need us to help them help them get there the more you are a trusted partner. The better off. You're gonna be so you know. Those are the kinds of things. I'm always kind of thinking about To help them do the best they can be too. I think that's businesses. Had reason i'd like to ask that as you know. I spend my day to day with with people during the craft at school. Right and i think a lot of listeners of this podcast for young in the industry and may not really understand or might have their head around how critical that relationship is doing great work because our students don't have clients. They have a blank piece of paper in every. Everything's a thought exercise. So what would you do without any limitations and it's not always limitations is it. Sometimes you know they can crack. Open a box that you never would have even noticed. A client can bring your problem. That is just a fertile insight that you never would have even considered so those situations can be incredible One other thing. You said earlier that that was really interesting. Was that you're in a position now where you bring your your authority to the picture. But you don't want to put your thumbprint on the work. How is the adjustment. Just shifting out of being an art director to crave director when you started supervising juniors or supervising people under you. Was it easy for you to stay stand back and enable them or did you feel like you wanted to put your your sort of spend on the work talk a little bit about your adjustment from an art director to a creative director. Yeah yeah no i. I never really had a big issue with that I'm maybe i'm i've got less of an ego or baby. I'm i'm just i. I never considered myself the smartest guy in the room. I think it's a it's a team effort. And you know one of the things that that i always think about is you know how would i want to be treated in that situation. You know you work very hard to come up with an idea. You think it's right for various reasons. Now we can all see everything that's why we have supervisors and creative directors to help us. See the things that we might not see. and i think You know. Larry pasta air. You know to give him credit. Was that way to it was either. Hey he's not necessarily kind of taking something and and just twisting it to make it his own. He's looking at it and saying this is this is this is a good idea for these reasons and this one might not be a good idea for these these other reasons so i i always you know looked at it when i when i was in that role to to you know. Take into account the people's work they put into it and but give them an understanding of why it might not be right. You know the same thing goes for for talent general to is you know. Sometimes you know people want to have a certain They might have a certain style or things that they're into but in reality. That style might not be right for the problem. We're trying to solve right. So that's the other thing of boys. Encouraging is to broaden your view of things we're problem solvers. That's our clients are asking us to do is help them solve problems. There's always a different way to solve it. There's never one answer absolutely. Yeah that's really important distinction So who do you ultimately answer to work for. Who do you feel like. You're when you wake up in the morning and you dear job who is the ultimate sort of authority or who do you answer to. Yeah it's our clients. I would say that you know unequivocally. But what what i want to say as a distinction in that answer is that it's our clients as business entities not necessarily as individuals. You know. of course we gotta deal with i gotta deal with personal biases or you know what they think is right or dot right but we need to convince some that hey through our experience or through data through research that hey this is a viable solution to your business problem and so you know i mean ultimately a. I'm not the owner of the agency. I'm working. I still have bosses just like everybody else. There's always a man we have to answer to but on the bigger thing. I think it's our. It's our clients businesses because tried to help them grow. I david lou. Bars was the first. And i think maybe the only the one that has answered that exact answer. When asked that question when you get to that position where you can see the the forest from google world sort of the google earth view. You see well wait a second. We're here because we work for this service industry. I think it is interesting that you said that. Also this should be another word right. The word client means different things in advertising. It's confusing because client. Is the person you work with it. It's also the company they were for. That's a weird thing ever meeting with the client today. The client is is billy all right so thought he just just a riff on that for a second. 'cause we we we talk a lot about that the agency because we've talked about us being first agency and if you think about clients and what we do there were all those people are all distracting to help help each other out so we try to talk about our clients. Sorry as individuals with their real names. Like okay who meeting with. Who were you talking to them. You know who you're talking with. And what were you talking with. What are you talking about so those kinds of things are important. Semantics are important so when we talk about clients usually are trying to say this is our big business entity and then when we're talking about the clients as individuals we try to call him by name that that's important distinction are so we said this a couple of times you've been there for a long time. It is extremely unusual advertising. Obviously so does does that say about you or about our pa. And how have you managed to the same place. I think it says a lot about the agency We've got a lot of people have been there a long time or or chief officer was there before i got there One of our cheap client officers have several has been that was there before i got there So that there's long standing continuity there I think we as it agency trying to treat people. Well i think There's a consistency that is important a continuity. That's important. you know the fact that you know. listen. I'm not dog at honda every day meetings. You know but they know that there is someone that has a history And understanding of their business were they ban where they're going what they're trying to achieve how they operate those kinds of things. I think that's a that's an important distinction that you know we talk a lot about when we're talking to new clients stability stability building relationship back to trust you know. Have you had moments. Have you had moments over the decades. Where it's like i really I really should try some different place. Or has a job shifted to feel like different jobs or both. That's the thing for me personally. The job is always shifted. It's always something new is always Either a new client or You know some new project or the media landscape has changed so much over the years so it's always kept me interested and and there's always something new challenge for me personally art so you've written a piece about emotional intelligence we're shifting gears a little bit. Can you talk a little bit about How important emotional intelligence is now having been through this pandemic and getting out of your own ways a leader in and just sort of being able to understand communication on a more sort of granular personal level. Yeah yeah well you know again. I think it comes down to kind of putting yourself in other people's shoes and these days especially I really believe it's a it's a team effort To achieve the things some of the stuff that we do as as marketers. These days are so complex. There's so many nuanced parts to it that you have to have the support of other people around you and to be able to work well With other people you have to have an understanding of what they're dealing with. You know what an account person has to deal with says finding for a it has to be able to Figure out or at least have an understanding of where they are. and so. that's what i try to do is having understanding of of people situations and try to help foster that kind of that that kind of thinking within within the agency within the department. But you know wh one thing that we've done. And i might be getting off track here a little bit. But we formed what we call ownership teams. These ownership teams aren't just creative teams there there. There are teams that involve account research Production and try to get those people to work well together Kinda form a little platoon for for different clients and you know they're kind of They go into battle together right and so the things we talk about our show collaboration in and you know that that support so when i talk about emotional intelligence it's also about being able to read read people having an understanding of what what their needs wants are card now. Though right it is it's it's more difficult But but at the same time. It's funny. Because i probably have more check ins now than i did in person Sometimes weekly sometimes biweekly. I'm able to drop it on meetings and just kind of see how things were going progressing. without having to be like. Oh my gosh that offer. The chief is in the room. you know what i think people appreciate that like. I said i'm not You know everybody has their own style people to communicate a lot. Some people like to communicate a little. My my thing is. I might not communicate as often as maybe people Other people might. But hopefully what i do. I'm present in our listening. I like to think that you know that's kind of one on. Why one of my things. That i i like to say is i think i'm a good listener. And i think. I i try to understand where people are coming from and a lot of times listening just hearing the words. It's it's reading between the lines and trying to understand what the true meaning is or you know the expression to emotions that are coming through. When you're talking with people and i think that goes back to you know working with the individuals that are that are our clients to you know it's the stuff that we talk about. Sometimes it's hard to express and you have to be able to interpret what what the end goal is not. Just take take into account what what they might be solving for the moment. Take into account what we're trying to achieve together isn't it. Isn't it so much more natural now. The experience i have now being able to listen and understand and contextualized conversations and contexts relies people's mode understand people's motives mitt. They're not even expressing. I think just comes from years of having these conversations in years of having these sort of situations come up that it also have less emotion attached to it so to me. it's almost like decoding puzzle times and it's actually really fun. So i think. And i think that these conversations i've been recording for fourteen years also taught me acutely how to listen to try to get out of my own f And just kind of let someone go. And if i have to write something down like if i practice this my whole life. I think i'd probably be have been happier more wealthy person if i just patiently right down things instead of just reacting in the moment like this one so you said something about you have these teams that work across disciplinary teams by second agency in new york was called anderson and lemke and every account had its own core team. It was the same setup and we the great thing about that was. We all felt that we had ownership of that relationship. Those problems in those solutions and it was a really empowering setup difficult for juniors. I think i think it's something that's probably better for people with little time under their belt to kind of come in and do those but That was a great worked. Really well yeah. Empowerment is big is a big thing. I think giving people a responsibility to Have that ownership is important. I think that's why we ended up with the ownership. Names has gone through different dating of job corps teams whatever but the the idea of ownership teams important. But you know a big part of that. At least the goal is that you have a full range of people when i say range Experience so we have juniors mid levels a cd's creative directors creative directors but they are part of those those ownership teams depending on the number of clients and the the amount of work but it each one we have that that kind of depth of experience and so the goal is for those people to work together to encourage juniors to give them opportunities to expand so usually what happens. Is assignments come in. And if they're said these days the Complicated a campaign has so many bits and pieces and moving parts that you need a lot of people to pull it off and if if if we go in with the right Attitude and support for each other those those people a they get the experience of of working it. They also have the opportunity to come up with the main idea. We might hope everything you so It's worth it works out great. And i think it's playing well with clients in new business and you know that kind of thing you know Telling her story to New business prospects is half the battle and this gives us something to to really talk about and show how successful it's span for our longstanding fi. Yeah that's great so they agency sizes what around six hundred. Yeah yeah these days it fluctuates. You know before pandemic were you even a little larger but You know things come and go but yeah it's It's pretty big place. all right. So how do you define success for yourself for the agencies. What does success look like. Well i think it's back to our clients excess if our if our clients succeeding succeeding and That that that's the short. Answer within that would i truly believe is support solving business problems and we're using creativity to do that. Then we'll have. We'll have great success. We'll have long standing relationships with these with folks and he's companies. So i i always from the beginning. I've always thought this Which is solved the problem with creativity right and everything else will come. The awards will calm. The recognition will come the Hopefully the financial gains will come to you for sure. I'm getting homesick right now. Hearing that siren. I missed new york. all right shifting gears. I think we have just a couple of questions so if you were to teach a class to run a seminar for young creatives people about to come into the industry. What's the one thing you would want them to learn. What you think's important for them to know coming out of school now and school now. That's that's good. i. I really think it's an understanding of other other things like which we. Yes you have to know your craft and they know understand how how things are built. But i really believe what were were problem solving it. So your your problem solving in a business world your problem solving communication world and so having an understanding of how things beyond your world operate. I think our is most important so culture or do you mean media like what do you mean. Well i mean the business side of this kind of what. I'm leaning into. But when i say that i also you also have an understanding of how that fits into the culture to the communication landscape to your your customer so i guess what i'm saying is it's like don't just get caught up in your own world of of what you're good at but think about the bigger problem you're trying to solve and ultimately going to put it into one word it's the it's the business the business side of things right. It's like if you're working on honda. I just saw an article. One of my feeds talked about this new advanced. A battery storage technology. Whatever like geeking out in the category. It's not about being a writer and art director about like going deep into like the world that your clients live in reading their trade magazines and those kind of things just to be articulate and partner to them That's a super important and i. I've always been kind of a research junkie and you know. Maybe that's why i've been able to easily on the old days. It would be like. Hey i'm going to be gone for a half day. Here excited to get to the library bro or i need. I didn't start subscribing to these other magazines. Now you've got the whole world at your fingertips All the information that she can find is right there. Right here So it it makes it a lot easier that way but it also can you can go down rabbit holes but having an understanding of all that stuff i think is really important caring about it like it's a lot easier. I mean all that information is one tab next much cooler stuff so you've got to think that is cool stuff all right. So what personal trait of yours. You think has been your most valuable so far in your career. What is it about you that has been sort of your secret weapon. Well we talked about being able to listen. I think that's a big a big part of it I think also not not having an ego. i don't. I don't pretend to be the smartest guy in the room I don't i don't i don't need to be. I think i. I need to have the support and have the trust of people around me especially as you know. We talked about age a little bit. you know the world's moving fast and there's a whole generation or two that are thinking about things differently or Taking in things differently how they consume stuff where they are where they're fighting their entertainment. How they wanna be entertained. What that entertainment looks like. And so i have to lean on on other people for for that. I only have so much vision. I need a broader vision. And and you know i trust in the people that are part of a team to to you. Know figure that stuff out. And i think that's a big part of it too looking for a diversity of vision two. It's like everyone has a narrow field of vision right so the more diverse people around you are the better. I think that's really really interesting You remind me a lot of another guy. That was on the podcast. Dan wieden who the thing that i think. A lack of ego does is. It creates the space for people to share their truth Present a stupid idea. And i worked really hard. Try to encourage people to present stupid ideas that i think. There's a false value on on on accuracy and correctness in the younger generation. And i think that it's really important to create a space where people can be messy. That's my own commentary on that. No i i. I'm a believer in that too. I think at this stage. Were i am in within the agency. I think people feel like For me personally they need to bring it to me in more of a complete form which is fine. But what i try to do is encourage everybody to You know the the creative directors of you know to have early check ins and have like what what one thing. We're you know. I try to encourage is not having freezing -tations but have check ins so if if if you're a creative director and the no you gotta get something developed to a point to get to a client at a certain date instead of Having hey you're going to have to have this presentation just have four four check ins no matter where you are in the process one team be. Hey we're really far along. We got scripts and storyboards. And all this stuff in another team. I just have a few Loose ideas but those loose ideas might lead to something that that is encouraging so having that kind of cadence to the work is something that i encourage although you know people at goes back to early art art. School days is like i. Don't anybody to see until it's you know to my liking. And so you still right into that. But encouraging the witnessing or being able to see ideas in their infancy. I think it's important that for sure trying to foster that for sure so knowing what you know now if you could go back in time to the day you graduated walked out of college for creative studies. What would you whisper in young joe's ear That's good i think Maybe having an understanding of ood of of business it's funny. I remember when i first became a creative director. Astor's talking to my dad who is like a business consultant and medical companies and He goes maybe you should think of getting your mba. No talking about you know. But in in hindsight. I think that was probably pretty good advice. So not that i have an mba but I think about those things a lot. I read about that kind of stuff. You know Harvard business review or whatever because at the root of it are people. And what you're trying to do is motivate people and what you're trying to do is get people to be the best they can be. And i guess having an understanding of context contacts and how business works and you can apply that to so many things aspire solving solving problems. Creatively for our clients but also being able to solve problems within the organization itself. Though interesting which is something that as you as you grow through With an agency your ass to manage people you're asked to encourage people you're asked to be critical of of ideas and the people and so you know having an understanding of of how business works is really having an understanding of how people operate but i would i would maybe whisper that the other thing i might say is a debate. You know having having the skills to understand your own ideas and being able to defend or talk about why those ideas are worthy. I think is important. I always think that like. I never really enjoyed debate. But in hindsight. That might be another thing. I would encourage people to think about bringing bringing your ideas forward with the logic and not getting defensive. I think it's an important in important trait while the great thing about debate is that you have to strategize by figuring out what the other side's gonna say. Which is it is a tool for learning empathy. Expos thank you so much a couple last question that just out of my own curiosity that has nothing to do with advertising because some one other listener if they're already other listeners is thinking the same thing so where in the mid west did you grow up. I grew up in detroit. Or just outside detroit okay. He has some flat some flat as their side of couldn't figure if it was a clevelander upstate new york or detroit detroit okay detroit and But i don't know. I i still get that you know It's still there. It recognize the mid west accent. But i've been it. I've been in california for thirty years. So maybe it's even a little bit. Maybe maybe and i wanna laura montenegro for introducing us appreciate her staying on top of me because i have a producer i need one. She has become a defacto producer for this conversation. So thank you for that. Yeah she's great she's She's been a big help to me to make sure she keeps me out task for these kinds of things. That's awesome. Thank you so much again listeners. I'm not going to go through all the links and stuff. But i am on instagram at digi. Ms podcasts. i always post pictures of these conversations right after the show so check out instagram And spotify for listening to this on the on the regular feed is also on spotify. you can subscribe. Follow us on spotify. So thank you for that and thanks again so much really appreciate it. Great conversation any final any any final words of wisdom for our listeners. Put you on the spot. Well the be yourself and try to put yourself in other people's shoes baby. How about that. Perfect excellent thank you so much listeners. We'll see you again soon. bye bye bye.
The Beigies: Traffic Jam At The Ports
"N. p. r. Everyone stacey here. And i am joined today by our wonderful editor. Patty hirsch he is the thank you for having me. I'm deeply on it. It's an honor to have you will. It's been a very big week. We lot of big stories but of course probably the biggest story is that the The new beige book drop this week for most people around the indicator. This was very big news. And i should explain what is before we get any further about eight times a year. The federal reserve publishes a report about the economy which is called the summary of commentary on current economic conditions. Very long title. Everybody just calls it the beige book because it's covers beige yes. This is the report from the federal reserve bank of the united states. which of course is broken. Up into twelve distinct districts is not just one thing it's twelve things as the federal reserve bank of philadelphia the federal reserve bank of dallas the federal reserve bank of san francisco which represents most of the west and each of these districts contributes a chapter to the beige book. An in these chapters are little collections of anecdotes from businesses and industries. All across the country. Everything from big corporations to mom and pop shops and to get these stories. The economist at these regional banks actually call up local businesses or. Just drop by and say like. Hey what's going on. They call these these businesses they called their contacts and some of the stories that they get from them are so great so good to hear the indicator. We have created an award for favourite beige book. Entry well to the beige awards brought to you by the indicator from planet money. I'm stacey smith. I'm patty hirschson. Today on the show we comb through the economic stories around the country to find the good the bad. I'm the best hope this message comes from. Npr sponsor fund rise making investing in private real estate as easy as investing in stocks bonds or mutual funds build a more diversified portfolio today at fund rise f. u. n. d. r. i s. e. dot com slash indicator. This message comes from npr sponsor salesforce dedicated to helping growing businesses connected their teams share information and automate processes all in a single app. Learn more at salesforce dot com slash. Smb welcome to the beigey awards for the first beige book of twenty twenty one. Now the beige book comes eight times a year so normally the stories. Don't change that much but right now things are moving very fast economy and this latest beige book was super interesting. Yeah and there was actually a real silver lining running through this beige book that we did not see in the last beige book. Most economists and businesses felt like the economy would really start to bounce back towards the end of this year. People are seeing a light at the end of the tunnel. Yes light at the end of the tunnel but it was also a lot of pain. The travel and tourism industries are decimated restaurants theaters and other businesses a really struggling to survive and one of the observations. That really struck us in. This beige book was something that came to a from the federal bank of minneapolis. A hotel owner in central minnesota. Who'd had to close the hotel pool and stop his breakfast buffet service. He was quoted as saying. Would anybody want to stay yes. There was a lot of pain but there were also some industries that were doing okay and some that were actually flourishing. Exports and imports release stood out for that reason. The san francisco fed in fact reported that shipments of almonds are at record highs. Apparently california's farmers are exporting wheat. And reasons like crazy which brings us to the award. Our favorite anecdote from the beige book. The one that gives us the keenest insight into one part of the economy. The federal reserve bank of boston looks tense. The dallas bet. Economists are holding hands leaning forward in anticipation on the beigey goes to the federal reserve bank of richmond economists sonia rabindranath what dell is accepting the beige. She oversaw richmond's beige book entry. Thank you very much. We're very excited for this award. I mean really on the whole patty. This whole entry from richmond was fantastic but there was one paragraph that really stood out to us release spoke to our hearts it is from the ports and transportation section. Yes if you let me quote shipping. Volumes remains near record highs and were substantially above year ago levels contacts reported increases in furniture toys and produce imports while meat and grains were strong on the export side. One context noted that the rush to get empty containers back to asia for future. Shipments is limiting container availability for exports economic poetry. Right there this beautiful gorgeous. So i ask sonia about this and she actually said this little paragraph tells us a lot about what is going on in the whole economy right now namely the goods are winning and services are really struggling for a couple of years even a decade. There's a lot of discussion about consumers buying fewer goods wanting more experiences. So i think you know in the last year. We've done the exact opposite so to the extent that we were paying money for trips or you know experiences. We've been spending that money on goods right. So we have a large portion of the who can do their jobs from And who have not seen and a hit two income and so who can take the money that they would have spent on the trip that they didn't take and spended on a home improvement or a new couch. This makes sense right because of regulations and state guidelines. And frankly just personal caution. We're really not spending money on services and experiences in the way that we used to eating ice and travel going to the theater getting a massage exercise classes with really not doing that kind of thing so much. yeah and instead. We're spending that money on like stuff. Furniture cookware clothing. Electronics and. Sonia told me that she herself has been living this. I will tell you and your free to put this on the on the radio. I have not gotten a haircut since Twenty twenty nine hundred nine or might have been january of twenty twenty see. It's getting pretty phero back there long. Getting long i used to have bangs. Sonia estimates that she would have gotten a buy three haircuts in a normal year. And you think how much haircut can cost. And instead she got none and so her. She's got plenty of cash to spend nine. She and her husband splurged on an outdoor heater so that the family could hang out in the backyard through the winter. At least that was the plan the or this heater back in november and it still has not arrived and mike. Cohen is pretty sure he knows why it's just a bottleneck. Mike is president of cv international shipping logistics company based in virginia. Right and sonia's district. Mike says the beige book is right on. A bite is industry. Yeah he says the shipping business is booming. We are buying so much stuff. There is not enough room on the ships for everything. And there's not enough room in the ports for all the ships there. Are these big traffic jams. In the port. Ships are floating there for dis just brimming with stuff that people have ordered waiting their turn the increase in volume Came so quickly that You know trucking companies warehouses time to staff up so we have running into a lot of delays sort of in the wild west when it comes to shipping the wild west. Yes prices have gone wild as well. Mike says freight rates or as much as four times what they were a year ago and this frenzy at the ports shows no sign of slowing economists sonia rabindranath idell says this situation also highlights one of the big themes of this beige book and of this recession. Just how divided. The country's economy is all those ships filled with stuff. People are buying. Those people are probably people who still have their jobs who can work from home and whose employment situation and income haven't really changed but then she says there are the millions of people who are unemployed who have not been able to pay rent. Can't afford groceries. People who are losing the businesses that they've built and watching their livelihood just dissolve and sonia says she doesn't expect this to change for a while at least not until the second half of this year hopefully by then she says vaccines will be plentiful and businesses can reopen. We can eat inside again. Go to the movies shake hands. Yeah hopefully life and the news will be a little bit beijinger by then a little bit baiser. Yes indeed but a huge congratulations to sonia and her team at the richmond fed. Like i don't know how does it feel to to win to win obey she. It feels great. Feels so i don't. I don't know that. I have the speechmaking ability as a of halle berry sally field. But but yeah. We're we're really excited about it. And and i wanna say this to you know. In addition to the team that has spent countless hours on the phone and video in the last year. I really need to thank our contacts so we have so. I'm so sorry where we're out of time. Congratulations sonia and we want to thank all of the federal reserve banks across the united states for that fantastic work. Yes see you next time. This episode of the indicated was produced. By dave blanchard in fact check by chantal donya indicators production of npr.
Ep.48- Jason Orzel, The Dusty Ball Bag
"Homes, and hops is proudly supported by plat Insurance your local Independent Insurance Agency offering Auto home life business and Farm Insurance. They also have a team of Specialists that can help you with ensuring your Brewery or Winery Platte Insurance helping you protect your tomorrow for more information or quote. Please call them at 330-856-6244 or visit them on the web at Platte insurance. Hello, everyone Lisa resnic here at the homes and hops podcast Studio. I am with co-host l e Platte. Hey guys. Hello. Hello a co-host. Yeah. I'm like, I'm great nice with that surprise and we are sitting with Jason Jason your have to say your last name is l as far as l or has l or sell or zealous polish means you go. Oh, oh so so, how are you feeling about the whole pierogi thing like Steve Jobs? And there was Saint Anne bad so you don't probably know. Oh, yeah, cuz you're so go ahead from Cleveland. He is from Cleveland, but I'm real quick. Jason is with us today because Monday through through some word of mouth and and from a little bit of research Jason here has created his own quotations bar dead. That he has going on in his backyard and it's called go ahead. Jason said the dusty ball bag. I love it. So I first discovered the dusty ball bag on so I live in Poland. Okay. I was pulling up Google Maps headed to my house and it is a very prominent there is a bar in my neighborhood called the dusty ball bag. So I couldn't just stop their way to figure it out your like, where is this bog? It's in my neighborhood. It's like the quotation Speakeasy in Youngstown that nobody knows about very much. So and once you go down that rabbit-hole a lot more than just Google Maps that you're going to find out so so we'll touch base back on the program thing and a little bit but let's get back to the dusty ball bag and how that all got creative. So I moved into Poland about three years ago with my wife's house. She got it from her brother who previously turned it into a chicken coop so long It's a little small 12 by 10 shed. I had a hole in the side which he put a cinder block in front of to keep other Critters out no chickens in it when I moved in but it was a mess. It had the remnants. Yes, the remnants from chickens chicken wire old the stuff that you don't want in your garage went to the shed. So I cleaned it all out and I convinced my wife to let me turn it into a man cave once I was talking with my friends and cousins and people who were going to have some input in into it. They convinced me to just cut a big hole in the side of it and turn it into a Backyard Bar off. And here we are today. I had my cousin come out and in one day there's actually a joke on the Instagram. There's a post that says Rome wasn't built in the day, but the dusty ball bag was and we cut a whole way through up the awning and then for about a month, I decorated it cleaned it up and we had the grand opening Father's Day weekend 2019. Nice. Wow, how's it going and went off? Unless you went through quite a few parties had a couple of themed things. We called them randos. The people that show up that we don't actually know not family. Not friends. It's going to be me. It would be Orlando when you actually need some grace us with your presence. You would be around. Oh and then obviously kovit and they kind of put a big damper on things. I've still been doing mainly Brown's brother in law's come over friends and family come over and just kind of enjoy but I haven't really thrown anything or advertised any type of big events this year because of that. Well Jason, you're actually you're you're originally from Cleveland. Yes. I'm a transplanted here because your wife cuz like we said, that's what we do. We bring people we go out and marry and then we bring them back in and that's how we grow the population. So let's just getting strategy. Yeah. It is very people off work it does. So I mean talk about a great way to meet people right? Yes very much so I don't log Don't know many people out here, you know other than who have met through them and their family and their windows and other random. Yeah, I do get quite a few text messages. I do it quite a few calls. I mean there's a website there's hours. There's a Facebook page. That's how I got a hold of you. There is a Facebook page Instagram is probably my main social media that I use but yeah, there's hours online. I don't really follow them. It's more of an appointment only. Yeah, but so curious are there legal issues with I mean, are we doubting you are you able to have a bar in your backyard? I don't sell alcohol know if you just give them all calls free everything even if you look on Google everything's listed as $0 I shall cups and you can then fill those cups. Okay with alcohol like you're brilliant people. So what do you do full time? I am a mortgage officer out in Cleveland OH nice right up our alley. Yes, so serious broke so we have Ellie here whose insurance and then you have myself in real estate off. So bands real strategic this plan. Generally. This is a phenomenal Trifecta happening here. So that's pretty awesome. So you work mortgage. What do you work at a bank? You work A lender? Yeah First Federal Bank, they're based out of their base out of Florida, but we have a branch up here in Cleveland Middleburg Heights specifically and that's where I despite living in Chicago and driving hour and fifteen minutes. Yeah, Cleveland's rep from Poland choices everyday Turnpike the whole way, but I just throw on the radio and last couple of days. I've been listening to podcast and what podcast have you been listening to and I just kind of want to get a feel for the the vibe and and what to expect and oh that's fun. So if you're so we kind of touched on earlier but so Youngstown has a really large polish yes or polish population, but also we have a Polish Youngstown, which is a great group and so long To promote. I mean there's a lot of the churches that are closing, you know that sell pierogies but polish young sounds, you know still promotes it they do a festival every year. They're part of a festival every year called simply slovaks. There's like a really a lot of stuff going around pierogies are super popular link. Yeah, cuz I'm a little bullish to go. There you go. Yeah, so I am not I'm just at Irish German and Russian. That's all I am home now, but I will enjoy honorary polish. Thank you very much. And I do enjoy Polish food beyond belief. So I was super bummed when I found out that one of the churches was going to stop making, you know, they're pierogies cuz they are fabulous and it's just and I think culturally I think a lot of a lot of us are facing this I would say even the Italians like everything about like who's going to pass down the tradition of the meals. Yes, so tough like cuz so many people appreciate those are just you know, so used to his kids just going in fact Join, actually these you know, all these women older women are like, you know role in the pro peace and stuff. We're not doing that know, they're done that's down. It's not being passed down on the cake take the torch. Now, there's some groups trying to do it but it's still such a small group and and a large amount of people that want to eat them every morning to man. I think the divorce has definitely there the supply not so much but hey, you never know. So so here you are and North Lima, right? Yes, and you down for three years raising them and the bar has been open for a year year here and half. I don't know if I count twenty-twenty yet. It's been Awash. So 2012 or are you looking to open it back up again? Are you going to like blast out even more on social media? I would like to it really all depends on how everything's going as I mentioned before birth. Just had a son end of July. So depending how he is doing as far as just you know, growing up and what we can handle having guests over and doing what I would like to the Instagram. I put 2020 was the year of the ball bag. That was my starting kind of quote going into this year and then everything happened. So I have 2021 is now the year of the ball bag off its kind of move it shifted on over just like, you know any concerts or events of your plan on doing this here just doing next year. So I'd like to we did a I call it the ball Olympics, which is a Beer Olympics. Essentially. That was fun. Last year. We did a Halloween. Oh nice and we did a it was called Weenie Wednesday, which me and my wife signed up for butcher box. And we had a bunch of just meet thoughts. Didn't know what to do with what to cook how to cook yes--and the Wednesday last year was the day before Fourth of July. So a whole bunch of people had off the next day. Yes, we threw a big party cooked a bunch of meat and just had a good old dog. Hurrah with a beer and I like yeah, it was so so what type of beer do you have there? So up until recently. I typically got my page here from my brother. He worked at a brewery in Strongsville called the Brew Kettle that if they had a short felt keg he workers were allowed to take them for free. So I would get free Shondells all the time and that's how I got away with giving one didn't tell me anything to give away free beer. So I really didn't care. Yeah come drink as much as you want doesn't bother me so he would get me, you know, the little pony kegs and I built a to tip a greater out of an old fridge and that's what's in there now and I made it up to fit at least three kegs at a time. So I could always have one on back up and I would use a free beer for 4th grader for now now he works at a new Brewery in Worcester called jafb brewing and I don't think I can get free beer from them. Hopefully discounted is here Brewer. He is a master Brewer down. Oh, yes. Oh, that is awesome. It's very cool. He he's coming working his way up between Brew Kettle. He worked at Great Lakes for a stint bad shift didn't really like it. And now he is helping the off the owner of jfb down there. He wants to expand business-wise. So he's kind of taking the reins on brewing and see Homebrew not as much as you like. He rents in a duplex in Lakewood. So I'm kind of facilities not the dusty ball bag and Brew with you. He was out here this weekend. He helped me he helped me clean some of the equipment and stuff, you know being slow. It's been nice to kind of clean up and get something else prepared for next year and he's got all the necessary necessary sanitizers and cleaners and whatnot. So he told me with that this weekend. I don't know if the bulb necessarily be a clean environment to brew beer and per se but I'd love to have you guys there sometime you can obviously check it out. Oh my gosh. I know we are 100% off. Windows of 2023 yeah, I haven't had any yet this year. It's always family. So but you've been getting calls I have been getting calls. I've been getting texts all the time. And like I said with with covid-19 have been turning them away a smart. Yeah. Yeah. I mean it's again with having a pregnant wife. I was working from home. So it would have been real convenient to just have a party all day and kind of liked my work computer and email the best way to get through this year. A lot of people drink though. I don't know I think excessive amount of weight and still are pretty good. I had I had to abide by the rules and and talk to my work but I got kegs in the beginning of the summer and I'm still working on him. So it wasn't I didn't blow through him like I expected to and this is from the new Brewery. Not yet. No, no, no, he just started there 2 and 1/2 3 months ago. He should start pitching to the local breweries around here. Right? I've talked to I forget the gentleman's name Homer. I think they call them over a Casual Pint and I'm just dead. Just you know, Justin is a former mortgage lender as well in Nashville before he came back here and opened up his his dream job of the cash type. Well, it's kind of funny because Jeff McDevitt advantageous States used to have an insurance agency. I know so he's sold it meant so the basically what we're telling everyone out there. If you're in any sector of this industry, you will wind up drinking and more owning a place for other people to drink at something a podcast about a year exactly. You wanted to share a chili experience exactly. How long what are you drinking Jason? I have the modern methods panthertown pilsner. Nice, which I I do like it's a pretty even-keel beer and it's tasty. I always loved their mobiles. I love their labels. I love their names. I went to such a good job, they really do and and actually a lot of the local Brewers they tap into local artists to actually create jobs. Labels they try to keep his local with everything that they do as possible. We're actually drinking penguin City new pale ale I'm excited about I haven't tried it's really good and ready. I am excited to smooth. Yeah, very smooth. It's really good. Yeah. I have been drinking their light a lot at home. Me too. And it's good cuz I have this whole ABV rule like I try to keep everything below 5% which is difficult to Smart room. Thank you. I think it was a podcast rule not like a life rule know April. It's it's a hard Castrol. And if you're ever with me, when I Stray From that rule you'll understand why birth control and we have the opposite role. I prefer beers over 6% right? It's not you know, it's actually a shame too because like there's a lot of great beer out there. That's at that nine years. I mean seven eight nine. I mean I've even seen one ad an 11:00 and they are delicious and the and they're really really good which then you have a habit of birth. Gained more of but but yeah too many ways new money cuz I do do you go to Vintage or you've been there benches of State have not know you need to go there never get past page. That's really close. Yeah the corner. Yeah. So I mean, it's they have an amazing collection and then they all they have all the local breweries to so, how do you like living in North Lima? I don't have that. Was it like, where did you come from in Cleveland? Cuz you have the suburbs of Cleveland and then the direct area around it which was at Beechwood. I'm not a choice when I get older. Yes, no choice twenty minutes south of the city similar to like Poland and Youngstown. Okay enough is definitely different. I mean, I went from having an eight minute commute to an hour and fifteen which was definitely different, you know, waking up earlier and everything and getting home later, but this could be like a bad question for me to ask especially because I like to help people the cost of living here as much better but is wage. Cost of living here much better than in Cleveland. I honestly wouldn't know when I was living in Cleveland. I was living with my parents. So it was rent-free just after my own thing. I mean it all depends on the area. There's definitely exposed areas and cheaper areas. But I mean, I'm just spending most of you know, my travel allowances on gas and tolls so whatever I save in in Warrenton making up another page that's what you're doing. You're helping the economy. Have you experienced like any any restaurants that you like here in Youngstown? You try anything new specifically our food's pretty grainy. Yeah, and I've realized I guess a lot of pizza shops a lot more kind of not quite mom-and-pop. I guess you could say but individual and unique and then when you get up there you get your Pizza Hut and Domino's and everything off of never was in Texas this last weekend in order pizza and it was painful like it was just cuz you can't people say that you can't get pizza like in other cities. I mean, there's always You're in Chicago, but like yeah, we are pizza is good. Here are Pizza is definitely unique in comparison to the other places that you'll go to and New York and Chicago the two particular ones, but I do I like our pizza here. Like I like the whole crust to Sauce the cheese ratio that we got going on. Yeah, as far as restaurants we go to Magic Tree quite a bit Yeah. Well, I like going there we used to do lavilla dinner every now and again it's going down with her family again. KO batana we've been homebodies really sticks a lot of ordering in and I mean, you've had my covet plus baby. Yes. So it's like there's like there's no Escape like we're at home and that's it. I would have been from being I had to go do all the shopping she would barely leave the house dog just for the sheer fact of you know, we were overly protective, you know, obviously, we're not in that danger age range as they spoke of but hates being pregnant. We didn't know but we're pretty like, I mean I can say like my my first childbirth We were pretty overprotective as well as it's usually the first one and then the second one you're like whatever he's eating dirt is totally okay. I'm looking to that I was a pretty crazy child myself and oh, well, they're just way we got together this weekend my father and mother were in town and they were telling stories and we've got got her handful if if he turns out anything like me have your parent able to see him. Yes, they came out fairly frequently prior to but yeah now it's my dad wants to come hang out with me and he goes He Robin you can see the baby and took up and ready to go. So they've made their way to go hang out that Dusty ball bag and her inside totally fine bad and we went camping with them a few times this year. So they got to see them that and just we make the trips out there to make sure that we don't neglect the the complete with the family which is nice and it's important to do that. So do you think that you would ever expand the best call back and build on them? The little the shed Shack. Oh onto that. No. I thought you meant like franchise. Wow. What made me laugh a big back yard. We make jokes anybody who has a shed is willing to and willing to cut off the side of it. I'll call it the dusty ball bag aren't any location. I think that's a brilliant in your backyard, but I don't know what you guys so we're in an HOA and they don't allow for sheds. So we're we're we're not allowed to offences. We're not sure yet if we put it in for all so if we put it up in a tree we're good. Oh, oh, that's funny. Oh God. I read the rules. I read the rules and I found my my out somebody. I know we have friends out in like as I said brother lives in Lakewood off. I have a buddy down in Brunswick now and we always say I need to Brunswick location. I need a an it's just us goofing around. But did you have a hard time getting it on Google cuz it's really stretched the heart it was dead. It was yeah, go ahead. Hey, I made up the address. So my address is 7616. I made the address 7616. V. So the mailman had a hard time delivering the verification code to me. Other than that not hard at all. Oh, wow. Yes. I didn't realize that would be that easy to do. That. Is it I mean, even my business my business has been there forever and I had to take pictures of the sign send it. In fact, it was this is outing myself and my my technology deficiencies when I was putting up my business on Google page. I didn't realize I was putting Bergen can Phil's office as the address cuz that's where I was at the time. That's awesome. So it shows me listed as the ownership of Magic's like I don't think they have any idea what they make now we'll find out there is something out about it easy to make, New Jersey. Let's take I'm like, I don't know how to fix it. So we'll just leave it and see how long this lasts until someone reports of the wrong. It'll be fine. Yeah, your your analytics like do people see cuz Google you can see em, not as often as I probably should I get emails all the time and just check on that, you know, and and sometimes I screenshot and sound like this many people looked at my bar this month. I don't even there's a lot of Buzz I hear about it all the time. They mention it people are like, oh, yeah. I know I've run into people I was recently shopping at Home Depot and I had the hat on and you got a mask on and you know, I don't have my face really plaster over too much a few pictures here and there along and someone kind of stopped and double took and they're like, are you affiliated with that bar? And I was like, well the dusty bulb and they're like, yeah, I'm like, you know the owner there like no way because his wife over he's like hey come back. So you see when I saw that I'm like I have to meet these emails. They're awesome. Yeah, we are a fun time. We try to have as much fun as we can. I got a TV up in there and I'm constantly playing music off. And if you can see it from the street sometimes so if you ever see the lights on and the Marianas up in North Lima, you are like you are I am. Yes, I am to three houses from on that Walker Mill. Whatever that next Ridge Indian Trail. Yes. Yeah and across from Timothy know that's 0761 six and half North Lima Road and go to the best of all bagged. I'm office. I'm 1st. Okay. Yeah. So the other took the the street they all that and to okay that makes sense know it's like it's one of the ones that are parallel with that but yeah, we'll figure it out. Yeah, so but yeah, we're right there walking distance. Well, we now know what she has don't remember. Yeah. Yeah, that's right. Maybe you could start having an Airbnb inside your house not enough room Steve lives right behind you off. So he's right there to like a couple of streets behind where you are. Yeah, I think you mentioned that as well. Yeah, they were when I first that actually was a funny story someone commented on Google and said would this be a good place to bring a tender age and me being wow, I mean being intrigued and the creep that I am I went and found her on Instagram and I was like, hey, are you the girl that posted about tender she goes? Yeah. That was me. I'm like, well, I don't serve food but I can definitely set something up. I'm like if you wanted to bring it in to date here. I would pull out all the stops handle dear. Yeah. That's true. I don't know if you know that much, you know Kate. I don't know kids last name, but yeah. Wasn't intended date. I talked with Kate and I took the Motions of setting up a day with her and she kind of said well, no, we're not do that. But we'd love to come down. They showed up they brought Pizza Hut is a fun story. That's fine. It was actually my wife was on her bachelorette party and she goes so wait random girls are coming to the bar birth. I was like, it's no big deal. Don't worry. My dad's going to be here and I had my brother and cousin coming to town. It'll be fine. She was all worried. She's down in Georgia and I'm up here having a random people show up at a horrible lake or like an online day and you're like yours. I don't even know what you call that. You'll attain. Well, there is another online dating site Bumble. They actually a dead a while way back like a bumble for business and so you can actually put the dusty ball back on Bumble and match up with people that wait wait. Wait so long is it so is it like dating the site? It's also business. Like what is it the B2B style matchup or dialects? So I'm an insurance agent looking for a mortgage broker. Okay. Or maybe looking for alcohol distributors or whatever. I would need their there you go. Not like hey, I put my business for people to come to to me. That's not a bad idea. And it's a hospital. ER. I don't know like a bed-and-breakfast. Yes Bumbo bread as well. You can stay off a mattress in the basement and just right well pitch a tent outside. So by chance were you could interfere beforehand or is this just like, hey, let's do this or you went to breweries and stuff like that and slightly not not as much as like as I said, my brother was but yeah, I mean growing up my father brewed wines and beers, you know in the house and gave that to us and whatnot. So it was Almost a a passion per se but I definitely enjoy trying new things and trying different beers and and getting different things out there. So having a keg in my backyard is I guess any man's Thursday 9 I will have to say you have definitely take the homes at hops to the actual degree that yeah, which is pretty cool off. I definitely have have approval for this. That's pretty awesome. I appreciate it. So where did the name Dost evolve I come from? Oh, so the story on the name. It's kind of off two parted story two years ago or so. I belong to a ski club snowballer ski club based out of Cleveland. We're noticing a theme Here completely different thing for Thursday, whatever reason but it might be why we were in New York. We were skiing we were drinking at a bar and this hammered guy came out of nowhere and me and my buddies were just kind of drink and talking b s and and wage. Comes up and he's listening to our conversation and go see know what you guys are a bunch of ball bags and we didn't know why but we embraced it. I'm doing I am Baalbek 3 a.m. Shout out to buy one, two, three thousand three or four or five and six are there are six of year or six of us about six small bags. Yes unique man. And so then coming up with the Bars were talking about building it talking about name ideas. We mentioned the Dusty Armadillo in Rootstown and that just kind of we matched those two together and came up with the dusty ball bag and then my cousin once just drew up a bunch of different designs and I picked one and he kind of went with it and finalized it and that's how we came up with the dusty ball bag with kind of the emblem with the really nailed effect. I know that's my favorite Irish people could see the ball at you said he did buy Olympics the Olympic rings in the shape of a ball, like bubble. That is perfect. That is always good job. The Instagram and there's a video. Yeah. Yeah, it's all their see. There you go. You can follow Jason and the dusty ball bag on Instagram Instagram at the dusty ball bag. I do believe the dusty ball bag. Com is the website. I'm horrible with marketing this kind of stuff. I'm on Facebook the dusty ball bag. You're obviously doing something right that we found you found dead. I do have my the guy that cuts my hair he goes. I wish I had the budget for a marketing person. He goes, I would pay you he's shocked that I have people call me and and reach out to me and try to come to the bar. He's like being a business owner. That's exactly what you want. I know this great and you're like, wait a sec. No. No. Yeah. I remember fun, you know, please don't come to my door until I let you off you go. Okay. We're ready for the rapid-fire portion. Are you ready? I'm really okay. So first question, what's your favorite beer? My favorite beer Of All Times. I'll have you local off. No, not at all. Oscar Blues Dale's pale ale oh and where is Oskar Blues Dave's parallel. They are based out of Colorado. They do have a brewery in Asheville, North Carolina as well. Oh nice nice. I love Asheville. They've got a lot of good beers. They do they really do and jam which is weird, but they do have a really good Jam there too. But all right to what's your favorite local restaurant. Favorite local restaurant will definitely be Magic Tree. There you go. John Rudy. Yes. That's a good one. The I forget they change the name without the one pound pretzel can't go wrong with that. Oh my God, the present certain age. They put they have a buffalo chicken wrap that they put on the menu because of me. Oh there you cuz I ordered it that way so many times that are like we better put it on the menu. There you go. I love Patrick tree and I do love their pretzels. Yeah, I forgot and they do they cater to to vegetarians out there as well. So when I decide to dabble in it for a day, I know I'm good to eat their birth. Breakfast till the weekend, right? Okay, and now ready last one. What's your favorite local gem favorite local Jim. Jim Jim Jim. Rome even know any gyms in the area. I like the fact. I'm a Harley Rider myself. I love that. There's the biker Brewhouse in the Austin Town Harley-Davidson. Yeah, that's cool. You know, it's the only one thing in the world which is pretty awesome good beer. It's not just like, you know, here's people are just hey I can make beer and I'm the only one it's good. It's good. Beer know why he likes it. They have a beer their birth and that beer is called blue balls your box. I have had that I've had that it was earlier, but they'll be here. I should get rid of talk to them. I'll see what there you go. That would be a collab. There you go. Do believe honesty blue ball bags will work on the name of birth. All right. Thank you so much. It's been absolutely awesome. Let him hi everyone.
Daily Briefing - May 6, 2020
"Hi I'm Ralph Pal. The CO founder and CEO Vision. Thank you so much for listening to the interview the Premier Business and Finance interview series in the world at real vision. We pride ourselves on providing the best in-depth expert analysis. Tell You understand business? Finance and the global economy. If you like what you hear on the interview I really hope you look set my invitation to try real vision plus the thirty days for just one dollar visit real vision podcast dot com today and join us as we navigate the financial world together chairs. Welcome to the Real Vision daily briefing. It's Wednesday may sixth. I'm Peter Cooper and we have visions Bennington Roger hearst's standing by to give you their macro analysis but before that let's go over the latest. Many countries around the world are starting to reopen their economies or rolling out plans to do so. Let's examine you of these countries plans in actions in how they're faring. Against the corona virus currently in the United States many states are already reopened or will be soon and they're under a lot of pressure to act yesterday president trump and vice president pence discussed winding down the corona virus taskforce as the. Us transitions into reopening today. Though president trump stepped back from that instead he would have the task force work indefinitely. Trump also acknowledged yesterday. Even though many people will suffer in this reopening America still needs to reopen its economy in those who leave their homes and resume. Their everyday lives can consider themselves to be warriors. I'm viewing our great citizens of this country. To a certain extent and to a large extent as warriors the warriors. We can't keep our country club. We have to open our country. Somebody said Oh we could keep them for the next eighteen months. We could keep it for the next two years. Doug Ducey's done an incredible job as the governor of Arizona. People aren't going to accept it. They won't accept it and they shouldn't accept it. We have a great country. We can't keep it. I mean I've had doctors say well. Why don't we close it for a couple of years? This is the United States of America. I created with a lot of other very talented people and the people of our country the greatest economy in the history of the world. The greatest that we've ever had the greatest employment numbers the best numbers we've ever had the best stock markets. I think we had one hundred and forty four days of wreckage stock markets. And then one day. They said we have to close country. Well now it's time to open it up the. Us is still battling a high number of daily confirmed cases as they did in April. Almost half of the states have initiated a partial reopening at this point with several more to reopen soon. So we'll need to keep a close eye on the data for the next week and see how things unfold relative to where they are now in the UK. Boris Johnson is expected to announce plans for reopening this coming Sunday. Originally the lockdown was supposed to end tomorrow the seventh but on April Sixteenth Dominic Robb. Acting as the prime minister said had laid out five requirements. In order to consider reopening they are one evidence that the H. S. can cope across the UK to a sustained fall in daily death. Three evidence that the rate of infection is decreasing for confidence that supplies of testing N. P. P. E. R. Meet demand and five no risk of a second peak on the twenty eighth. The fifth test was edited to make it easier to pass so instead of saying no risk of a second peak but rather a second peak that overwhelms the. Nhl US at the moment the UK's Daily confirmed cases remain in a sustained level ranging anywhere between four thousand six thousand in the last few days for their daily death counts. They've declined slightly but are still maintaining a consistent level of five hundred to one thousand based on where the stats are in how rigorous passing these tests will be locked down could be extended for the UK for the time being in for Germany chancellor. Angela Merkel has announced that they will be emergency brake enacted. In case any of the sixteen states of Germany experiencing uptick in new cases. Each of the federal states have been taken control over when they will be open. But this emergency brake will help maintain the downward trend that they've had relaxing. Their physical distancing measures means that all shots will be allowed to reopen as long as masks are still worn in social distancing maintained. Schools will gradually reopen so that all students will return by summer. Term in Germany's football league. The first and second divisions will start again in the later half of me. The federal states have been charged with creating strategies to reopen their establishments such as restaurants hotels in theaters. Their daily confirmed cases have been demonstrating a strong decline over the past few weeks as well as their daily death counts their daily net. Active cases have consistently been negative since mid April. These of course are just a few countries and their specific plans and circumstances vary but as much of the world is making a synchronized movement towards reopening. It's important to recognize where these countries are in their battles against the corona virus. It will have a significant trickle down impact on a country's economy if these decisions to reopen actually encourage the spread of the virus in make it even more difficult to control. Now we'll turn it over Ashton Roger Ash. It's Wednesday may sakes just Africa's markets European time. I'm asked Bennington. This is the daily briefing. I'm here with Roger Hurst from the guy. Welcome Roger Goodell Again are you thinks he's health. I'm doing great so yesterday. I don't know if you had a chance to see the show. We had Tony greer on. Yeah I did I loved. It actually are reserved because I'm always interested in the various perspectives in terms of in some ways. It's a bit like one. Kings technicals individually as in all their own technicals and fundamentals on their own battery. Good with either but together I find them quite powerful and it's the same way that is I think the perspective in the short term perspective given the size of the mix. I mean if you think about it emo- away which is people trying to get five to seven percents. Years certainly does a little pension funds trying to get forty percents in a few days. Then you should care about these moves. I think he's always kind of key to to think about that. That there's a short term opportunity where you can make a lot of money to the small. Move it you'll trading it or you can pick up some very very big. When volatility picks up the moments or even into the long rule where you've got to have You know you to have the long-term glossies on the key with all of this. I think is something which Doug mentioned before. I mentioned it on When I used to writing tank on did a podcast stuff like that is that framework is the most important thing regardless of anything else. Framework is the most important thing rally talks about hedge. I talk about it. A framework applies to absolutely everybody. Trade idea might only apply to temps the talked to when I was in when I was in sales. Business unfunded maybe ten twenty percent hit home with my ideas but for was the most important thing because everybody needs to understand the framework and from that everybody trade ideas. We'll be down to your risk profile. Age will sort of Also the acids you'd like to trade in those little play with each other and against each other but they are all on the same thing which the framework. Yeah I think that's very well said it's part of the framework and it's also part of having diversity of different views along different time arises which really interesting in vigorous series of comments is yesterday which were terrific. I think we're incredibly lucky here religion. We've got like the smartest subscribers in the conversation that we have in. The comments is the rarest of all things. Is that Unicorn. We have really intelligent debate among people who can disagree with each other in a way. That's that's cordial and collegial. We just want to thank you for that. That was great. I mean that's Read the comments pretty much every day because not only this offense tick insights but also gives me waste food for thought about what I should be looking at next. Because I'm a plagiarist talked about the framework but my framework is pure plagiarism. I I try and read as many different peoples I can see reviews the normally have a complete opposition to and factual those sorts of things in when I have a view on something very like. Oh this year and this is going to be right. It's kind of being tried on. A rally talked about being tried. I think that's right. We all tribal in our views. But I think also route is not belligerently tribal as in you can be tribal but you can change tribes as the facts change. I think being tribal can be dangerous because if people are very hurry myopically tribal missing the opportunities and an example of that in a motorway was phrased the is. Es Gee I've always said whatever various yet already cabinets on so yes. She's going to double play that game. I chase that. Take what athletes regardless of mind thing is ultimately. We're here to make money as well as an infinite number of ways you can make money. We can make money. England gets to pick up on your point. It's all about the conversation right. It's all about what we're doing right now. It's all about this discourse I'd I reminded the Great Gore Vidal quote. I HAVE NOTHING TO SAY. Only Dad and that this is a conversation that goes back and forth. We have so many wonderful contributors. We have so many different strands. Something's you may identify with a really core in visceral level some things you may here and be like. I'm not really sure that I agree with that. But the more you reflect on it and think about it sometimes there's some value in those ought alternative perspectives as well and that's what we try. Hard to prevent present not prevent represents yes right on one of the big debates the moments and I think he's a very understandable. One is that there is this debate between the economy between economy on the equity markets. The equity market is no the economy it can reflect the economy. But it's not the economy is not just the SNP. People often thing the mock is is is they ask people to think that the equity market is the Nasdaq and the S&P but was global equity markets as well and that's very very different way to the US equity market so there's all different some games at play and maybe global equity markets instead another emerging markets reflect true underlying economists much much better than maybe the SNP reflects the underlying US economy. And I think we go separate those at and you can be completely right or wrong and completely raw wrong rights on the other and you can have two completely different views the economy. That is the question I keep all posing. Don't have the altitude but could I potentially see a depression in the US economy yes could I potentially see the SNP hit? Four thousand was the. Us Isn't a depression. Yes is the equity market trading on corporate and economic fundamentals no and it has not been trading on those fundamentals four while some somebody would argue never trades on fundamentals. What it used to be. It was policed by insecurity active manages who were using fundamentals as the basis for investing buying body. Expense his stalks. That what was we get? Those periods like two thousand two thousand and one where valuations become bubbling. Everybody GETS SWEPT UP Japan. Nine thousand nine hundred nine but overall. I don't think that you know the amount of time that the an equity index is in line with fundamentals is very very rare. And I think what's happened more recently? However is that fundamental have been almost relative because we've seen manages hemorrhaging cash so the policing Laden only done basically gone by the wayside because up until two or three months ago money was coming in. Money was following rules based systems like risk parity and that just pulled them all in some ways is enormous but also without any forethought for valuation at other factors at play and as a result of that. I think we now in a world where we're GONNA try to account weather. Those fundamentals or lease the fundamental players are going to reassert themselves. Green believes we conceive more concentration into those plays. You don't full evaluation Roger. I think that is the core question that we're looking at right now. We talk about dialogue. We talk about conversation. You've just hit on. What I think is the key to this. When we look at this market in a broader context the question is. How do you reconcile what's happening in the broader economy? We see things here in the United States that are really grim right literally outside my front door versus the relative sort of mild. Sell off that we've seen in. Us Equity Markets. Looking right. Now I think we're down fifteen percent from the all time high in the S. Were up about one one and a half percent on the week. As of midday on Wednesday this doesn't reflect economic frankly carnage that we've seen in the US economy. This really is the key question and this is why the Tony. Greer perspective is so valuable to understand. I wrote the comments yesterday. Look if you want to understand the disconnect that's happening between what we see in markets and what we see in the economy you have to look and think and hear what's coming from the traders who are actually trading. These markets were making these decisions. Who were looking at different price points? Were looking at the tape and saying hey look. I don't really care what the broad picture is. What I'm seeing is demand at this particular level and I'm a buyer and you contrast that against with some of the bigger sort of strategic macroeconomic perspective that we've done it real vision for so long. I think when you put all those things together you've got a really compelling way of viewing the world. Yeah the way I looked at didn't my framework coming into this whole settle ambitions. The frame. None of these were certain days. I said these are the time so you get people who are trying to make money out of his book refinished to show back in early March. I said look I think the sell off will head tools the expiry then on this show in the week. Spry said look. It often happens that we see a significant inflection. Points exploring some comments. I said that again categorically this is something which is you know. You can't fundamentally put your money on this something which you should account for new framework and we're GONNA low the day the first full trading night ultra expiry. Now some people look to kind of saint. He's generalizations and with hindsight backtra. Say say that they actually said these things I didn't. I said as a framework we might see a low around those periods. That's my framework. And now we're going into a training your that point which is okay. We're in the rebound. We get a sixty two percent. Rebound wasn't voting. On the way up. This is on the way down with the Goldens Hall on the way up. They were on the way down full million just today on the way down to inch today on the way up. So you gotta bring all these things in say now consideration where the sixty seven retracing the SNP with through that on the Nasdaq. But we've had a phenomenal injection of capital liquidity from Fed. But that is really. Money is going to find his way into banks. Men Leverage by banks into risk assets into the real economy real economy needs to fiscal. So I'm looking at both a mattress viewpoints fiscal but a trading viewpoints. And as I said before if they pay break sixty percent than I have to start thinking very very aggressively whether central banks themselves with. It's he can push through the all-time highs thousand was the real economy as as indicated by Bob Deals and by emerging-market currencies. That's still telling me that the real world is having problems whilst he's wanted to ask some really only five stokes in reality which is significantly up in the Nasdaq Adroit concepts of the equity. I ended the to trade woman. One informs my future expectations. Yeah and that's exactly the point right. You just tied them together. They're perfectly. That's the flip side of the technical versus fundamental strategic versus tactical macro versus trading view. Absolutely you gotTA T- together as I said fundamentals technicals off when I talk about head and shoulders if I hadn't shoulders but there was no fundamental change in the market. I'd be very skeptical about head and shoulders formation and I've seen so many of those fail because it'd been no fundamental difference pricing some amazing head and shoulders reverse had been shoulders whether a fundamental change with Dalian Ling. The Nikai back in two thousand twelve six around two thousand ten. You can see a very very significant. I hadn't shoulders in the ratio of spiders versus EMC Emoji markets at a time when it looked like Dole was trying to break the upside. The fundamental changes with great technical. Backups as well when you can say okay. This looks like it's going to bring us both both doing for myself. Awards a fundamental story. I want to store. I WanNa see volumes in the markets and the S&P blows out through the upside. I will stop thinking about my own Barish arguments. Even though I still think at this stage I'm correct on my. You know this economy Monday giresse significantly for a long period of time but the monkey my surprise me in how is even more disconnected than it has been for the last ten years just finishing that remedies lost ten years. We saw almost no instructs most of that period we still GDP rose but most of Nema can't running from six six six in two thousand nine to thirty four hundred The beginning of this year. That is an amazing Megan and equity market while the underlying fundamentals really justified. Yeah and that's extremely well said and the only thing that I have to add to that is look. The complexity of this conversation has to mirror the complexity that we see in the real world. We deal with. We look at markets when we when we follow the we follow the news flow we see complexity ambiguity and frankly contradictory statements all the time for markets from policymakers from new stories. And how we stitch all of that together and how we try and find and explore and have this conversation to understand what's happening in markets to build that framework. I think the critical of what we hear religion. Yeah absolutely and and it's a fascinating is amazing mosaic of there's so much to try Try to take this voice I plagiarize I try and read as many people that are trying to play. Plagiarize other people's frameworks together. You know the classic. What is Bryan Johnson? Zone milkshake elements completely agree with these other elements. That don't agreement on. I take it on board trying to myself based on my own requires risk profile my age. And that's how you might trading investing based on that somebody can be sure to that has a one year to ultimate ten year view because the military towards your time. Yup exactly so. We've been very Meta here today. What else are you looking? Tactically in terms of news flop will you so going back demarcus? An essence what we've been talking about is that receive the Nasdaq doing well. But it's the banks the key disappointing on the one hand so today when I looked to the small we sort of flashy sunny up on the NASDAQ DOWN. Opposites leading on Knx. Similar amount down on the European banks. European banks haven't even managed to bounce city. Send something that goes. Twenty three percent the S. in the US. They balanced the buying all still integral to global economy. An in some ways. If you WANNA look actimel can worry about think about which equity market signals telling you about the real economy Amazon because that is a content sites who I spoke to a few weeks ago. They said that basically Amazon is a macro stocks a metrics on the Bengals but the dying saw similarly with certain emerging-market currencies and emerging markets. Once again if you look at the ratio the SNP facility Market yes impedes making mutual time high. So new new high for this movie which hasn't been in place for ten years bowdoin sort of things. I look at my signals. Sorta ignoring the pay the Nasdaq. Because I do think that that separate base. But outside of that banks your your maturity we'll talk about emerging emerging-market currencies in collecting collection the J. P. Morgan index the dollar index. All these are saying look. There's still some serious problems even as we talk about coming out right before we move on to do. We have so much to cover. Could you talk a little bit about your view of the distinction between the momentum that we see in the SNP the momentum that we see in Nasdaq will the momentum is really kind of a bit of both because one of the tall stalks in the pace? Find Big names technique. They I think the twenty three percents things all the time so the top five now is bigger than it's ever been driving the Nasdaq as well. So this is basically a fly stock story. But I think there's something like if you take out if you take the stocks out the rest of the SNP twenty eight percent Down Thirteen the difference. Being those fly stopped so again. It's it's how you look at this when we talk about the equities doing well we had talk about equities doing well or five doing well because it's difficult to interpret bats as a signal for the economy. You look at these other things. So emerging market affects said before emerging market bonds these things which are not being distorted by particularly US equity the kind of freely floating and they're giving different signals now. They're still doing better than they were telling me. The economy has recovered in a dramatic way. Is telling me that? There's still a very very large headman out there. Yeah you know to pick up on a point that you made earlier in in his piece the question that I have about the five stocks and we all know the Fang stocks that we're talking about here the big tech stocks The question that I have is is that a momentum play is that just a sort of bubbalicious a trend following play or does that represent something that looks more like a perspective shift a paradigm shift in the US economy that investors are betting that Google model for the way. The economy is going to work. his going to be something that's going to be bigger stronger and higher growth perspective by potential rather than what we've seen in brick and mortar. Yes I think what we're seeing here is. Twofold is wrong. The Fed did coming with courtesy to hold the show on the downside. Now the rebound willow trailing the rebound the same time we have seen a concentration and an acceleration of the old trends. Bricks and mortar was always under pressure going downhill and eventually with seen the mood. That we're seeing seeing here is a four. You move in three or four weeks and if that concentration is taking place now the other thing to think about with these this before it's not happened yet. Is that normally? When you see these sorts of news and was in a ban get you see the winner's getting sold as well and they were so but knowles in the way that I would have expected in fact when you looked at Chichi Sharon standing. That's you know the open interest effectively on the increasing three most of the settle which is quite remarkable. Some money was concentrating in today's but what we look here. Is this sort of fundamental story for these stokes winning market because the fundamental story for people who only stokes if my balance sheet is in pad some near sometime in the future needs raise cash in the same way that we saw people selling goal which has been one of the winners of this whole kind of scenario people eventually settled win is like Amazon if they need to raise capital so we had. We don't just think about a balance sheets of Amazon. We have to think about the balance sheets of the people who analysis that's impaired over the next five six months people will have to sell them as an eventually to rake Spanish so once again. It's technical story. It's a fundamental story. There momentum plays end as Marc Andreessen famously said software is eating the world yet trends. They're they're going to be in place. Full a significant period of time. But that doesn't mean it should be a way to the outside this. There's a limit I think there's a limit on the the cash that is you're gonNA concentrates into these names. Because cash is in the balance sheet has been driving that caches impact pension fund balance sheets. Pensions balance sheets themselves. Individual balance-sheets at other cooper ban sheets which affects me paying the wings. The people buying these goods and eventually you're going to see these impediment. Amazon has right down. Four billion in order to offset the cost all the current ivars himself now in that same time they've been buying market share because it'd been building facilities to make sure they take advantage but but if everybody who's using these companies he's going to suffer and economic slowdown that. I think he's coming will be directing eating for those you know. There's also the question about you know the extent to which Mr Bezos is using that to build out infrastructure Four Amazon that is going to further impair mainstream the ability of brick and mortar businesses to to function. Yeah look the other thing is GonNa Command to this again. Mentioned this before. But these are the cash rich companies in a world where we're going to be cashing. Pat Is not a stretch to think of. These companies are going to have to be taxed in the future. When will list the dust settle so catch the cash balances these companies tab will be in the? Cross has held governments. Which then probably means. These guys won't get rid of the cash. Balances might may rushing through early into some. Some emanate which effectively dilutes the model of buys Malkin shed a buys monkey showed companies which knows efficient so again the will be gravitational limitations on the ability of these companies generates unlimited cash. Yeah and to shift gears a little bit. Here's something different You know one of the reasons that I'm so glad you're on the show. Today is one of the things that I've been watching Is The story I here in the US? That I've been joking with my American friends. Think of visit. It's just ambien but is absolutely crucial story. Because I think it's at the very heart of the European project itself there's a a German Federal Bank ruling About Ecb review to analyze whether the bond buying program that these UB's engage in has has met various requirements. It's all very technical very legal. I think a lot of people's eyes glaze over when they read this story but to me. It's something that seems incredibly important to understanding what the frankly viability of the European project might be or what the risks the viability of the European project by did not to put such a pessimistic to on it. What are you're thinking about Roger? And can you help US UNDERSTAND FROM THE EUROPEAN PERSPECTIVE? Why the story could be so significant so gonNA sneak in very much. Generalizations hit because there is a lot of legal speech and all of this but basically what it really has been driven by that the ACP can bygones combined balls troll every country in years old on the. Have these things called Castle keys which is basically you can buy to get will take thirty three percents all others so you get to limits and break. That's about a year and a half ago. They're getting close to the limits and remember drought and he said you know we can have unlimited bone by people say the capital keys. But what he really meant was yes but if easily just print some prints and guy says ball off the bond off the bone Delta bonds and increase his bones out in circulation by one hundred percent than with your fixtures and lint. You can still buy balls now. We'll they're really saying currently with this whole discussion from the German Colt is saying all you'll capsule keys because what you're doing right now. Mr. ECB is you're buying nine billion for me too but only one billion from Germany. So you're buying too many Italian bones to help Italy you'll know buying him in the right measure and therefore you cannot do this. I didn't deny took now. I think the reality of this is that they've been doing it for a long time. It's this is folk cases been rumbling on Gregory longtime will with the idea of whether the Fed by equities fudge. They're always trying to fudge it and the be the Bundles Bank. Jovan calls will fudge. Both Syria here is that if the German court is above a European code of Justice which theoretically it should be but people in most countries and say well actually we will but if it is than does not bring the whole concept of Europe. Surely D. C. J. D. European quota justice should be the highest form of the little within the euro zone. And that's being challenged right now. But he's been challenged before. Deutsche Bank in two thousand sixteen seventeen there was a sieve luck scenario and we'll go pretty excited because nothing else going on and then it happened and nothing happened same again today. Why weren't feeling is when you're going through a crisis light today to fudge it again because you don't want to add any extra paints this current environment so I think there's of a stolen NC Cup. Today this will never go away. This will be trevor within the European Union or at least the year is. Yeah it feels like a pub. That's got a strict to pint per patron limit. But if you walk out the door and spend sixty seconds on the sidewalk and then walk back in your new patron. Yeah and they will try to do. Here is is obviously Italy. Desperate for this mutualisation and the the frugal full. He'd let the Netherlands in Germany. Desperate not to effectively ultimately found the pensions of people in the rest of Europe. Ultimately about you think about your you had Franz wanted to reduce pensionable age at the same time the whole and increasing. Is You gotTa have the same pensionable age? Got To have pretty much the same tax system throughout the whole of the euro-zone if you're going to mutualise death brings you to do that. But in time of crisis like today place like it today in Spain desperately needs some help which means you're gonNA have to break. Some of the rigid rule will always be Sodhi countries with different requirements. Such a counter consensus is almost impossible. Unless you get to that point extreme pain as twenty thousand twelve. Where affects goes? Okay Ya. We'll let it go this time. We're not quite there. I think and if anything because in the commandments of pain in the moments we're actually seeing these arguments coming service if we go back into extreme pain over the next few weeks again. Yeah you know to get out. Pick up on the point of pain. Someone who's washing this a very high level from the opposite side of the Atlantic. Obviously you know the feeling that I get is places in in Europe right now. Italy and Spain especially that have experienced a lot of pain. A lot of real human hardship right with this virus has been very difficult and you have countries in northern Europe fared better in terms of the actual impact of the virus itself. But in those places there's still a lot of collective fear and if you're if you're a relatively wealthy economy the fear is going to be in the form of not wanting to subsidize some what's might be perceived as another country's problems but when you put these two things together Roger You have you have people who are not human level of felt inexperienced a lot of pain you have people on the other side in places like Germany and the Netherlands Reeling Zion about the fiscal situation. It seems to me that the procedural issues notwithstanding pug metaphors and all of that you have something that philosophically starts to feel like a real problem. It's I mean in some ways it's been back to ten years and we'll talk to this because of the UK has left or should be leaving at the end of this year. You can no longer paying the budget. So all the countries that would be subsidizing. The with subsidize subsidize could great extent which is adding to the hangs so the whole combat whole attritional lack of political cohesion. That has been the coaling cod of Europe. In in many ways over the last ten years is back at play and the way that these kind of the Germans and the Dutch might be looking at this thinking okay. It's not just about the pain today in some of the things that we've been talking about with this whole experience right now. It's just a pain today as paying next year in ten years Ford and you still about that and there is no simple fix that and just subsidizing one region one specific region. It's not actually going to fix things over the long term structural changes needs to be made both psychologically in northern Europe but also at the government level in a lot of southern Europe and structural changes are made. It's going to be very very hard for all to come together right. You've such an important and unique perspective. Having worked at a German Bank for so many years so Roger. What are you going to be looking for as this begins to unfold to get a sense of what's happening and how concern we should be mentioned afford some Bt Pay Spreads Airways so that early warning system and they didn't wiping out a little bit but not as were. This crisis cheats off the nowhere near as bad as they were in two thousand twelve but if going to come to an agreement and at the moment you Toronto bombs have been put on the sideburn. We're not talking about a half trillion rescue fund. But he's still gonna be with you know it's GonNa be loans with penal criteria on it. You look at those bond yields the spreads styles whitening ads again. And you start to get worried. I'm the euros a little bit of a tricky one because most people look at Europe and goat. It's about case but it goes down to okay if you sold. The Euro is going to disintegrate does disintegrates into being a euro for the Southern Countries Casey or should be lot lower or you're a newlyn countries which gets it should be higher and no ray knows and independence Do you get will depend on your view. Europe and as a result the euro is. That's been remarkably. Well behaved truth particularly the crisis. The two thousand twelve so. It's very very hard so euros. Not that ideal spreads the best thing on the banks of said before the banks all an absolute horror show in Europe. The lack of bounds tells you all you need to know these are gonNA get nationalized. The debts have never been the decimate have been sold. I would not going to see a flow problem of liquidity problems to true sold Z. Problems within Europe and is probably going to happen next year. Any particular countries banking system. That you're especially worried about or that you're following more closely than others now. Say He's always had. The problem is had appropriate for a long time. Unfortunately I think the one the one that really matches mount aways Jimmy Jimmy because Jimmy has been stateless full fold Fiscal austerity but if the Jenner banks off coming to the point where the non-performing loans are so significantly greater than their equity and they probably will take five percent number flowing loan in Colino gone recession. That's three times your equity on they need nationalizing quite hawks agenda to nationalize its banks but pretty need to do that. And then say but you know allowed to do that in Spain. And that's the point where Jimmy would have to go okay. We're all in this together to hold off on that for as long as they can. But that's why I think Jim and the ones that we really have to think about worry about because German banks that could give us a clue to whether Europe would thank you. Say Okay. We'll together. So what is your problem? I wish you luck when it's my problem. Were on this together. The classic the Classic Indeed Deep far-ranging Conversation Roger. Any other points that you'd like to bring out. I think the interesting one is the oil market. Because now with the value. Hindsight's all that excitement around the Max. Barring the June expiry is going to be coming up in mid May but it does look like mostly excesses that we saw downside in the market was to do with firstly the exploring being physical delivered because remember the big negative news gray low voting in the May contract but also then we saw the implode to roll from the front months to second third month and then we commodity in see rolling first to second and so I think that in some ways you see. That bus is night behind his technical story. But the rebound the we've seen in oil so fall again is a technical rebound from being oversold. I still think that we sat in a fifteen twenty five range on. Wti maybe slightly higher on Brent because it has less issues around its expiry and oil. I think is an oil. Is that real world acid but if we into recession wanting I would agree with Tony's into recession. You want to have the oil stocks because they had full in both lost team big recession solo fairly than in a recession. Everything else sells light. Yogi Nasdaq stokes which already priced in the slowdown in the real economy? Be Now people take money out to the winners and so those oil companies. I'm looking there. In fact we had a battle a religion of here in London and terrorists took about a month. Ago is out to the next quarter so this will slightly off side. But I've got my money so from European sovereignty to Adam macro perspective from the BBC. Back Down to oil and print of the tape. It seems Kinda go all over the place but he reality Wilbur. There's so many things that are connected and yet they're all connected these roll the macro stores. They're all coming out from the underlying Jalousie. But it's been in this global economy global risk acids for very long time so a bit of disconnect but at the same time I think the underlying stores are all adding these things. Intermingling them together. And that's what makes the conversation interesting. Absolutely Roger Thanks for joining us. Greek see again
Dave Frees is building trust and establishing relationships using Business Black Ops secrets
"Today's episode is with Dave freeze and this will also be followed up by a video interview continuing on the same subject with ten persuasion techniques that will be released on September fifteenth on Youtube. So please check out the Youtube Channel at Eric, Hundley good air commonly dot com or YouTube dot com slash Eric. Can defined that video along with my livestream, which is exclusive to Youtube and other great video interviews. Thank you so much and I give you dave freeze. My name is Eric, and this is unstructured. Dynamic informal conversations with some amazing people. Dave freeze welcome back. It is really good to be here. I'm always every New Year I'm surprised to still be alive. Pretty much. It's twelve since I love you and every time. I. Come on your show I'm like why is having me back but I'm honored and excited. Well that's here and speaking of that. This is your third appearance so. Bean ridiculous I WANNA go back to your first appearance. And let's talk about the garnered effect. What does that again? So does our guy nick effect is where you do or say or you alluded to the idea that it might be you show somebody something that triggers curiosity within them so that they're going to pay closer or focused attention to you. You have there you have their attention in weighed in before. So these are guy nick affected writing might be where you get to the bottom of a page it says and what happened next scared me dot dot dot so you can't resist you have to turn that page. On our guy. Nick effect. Might be created behaviorally I. Think in the example, I was being be explaining in our first episode was. If I, want to get my kids attention using this our guy nick affect. I might look around five talking to them in a very conspiratorial way and lean ago. We're should mom. because. Figured enormous curiosity attention and at I'm not sure if we talked about this or not. But there's a really good biological reason for that where there's things that are out of place, you're curious they're not normal. They're different than the usual pattern in evolution. For most of our lives as humans. depending on how long you believe that is a millions of years If there was something that was out of place or something triggering this guy effect you had to pay attention to it because if you didn't, you're likely to get eaten probably meant there was danger. So we're via logically, very well trained to pay close attention to that. Okay now, you rolled it into a nested loops as well. So I like that you're going back to the first episode to close a loop about nested loops. But here's people just listening to this on its own. A loop is where you start to tell a story. So you're going to use this incredible human desire to hear story. And you start to tell a story usually as a way of transmitting information or getting someone's attention, and you deliberately stop that story and start to tell another story. So you've created kind of bizarre gynecologist there to a crazy example of it might be that you have something that would be hard to believe. And you've got to really lay the groundwork for it. So you say in the course of our conversation today, I'm convinced you that aliens. Came to Earth that might be hard to take. But if you start telling a story about something that's inexplicable that we just don't understand you stop that story and you start to talk about evidence of NASA astronaut seeing things they can't explain then you stop that story. Now people are starting to become interested in these various things that are laying the groundwork for ultimately when you get to the Telam, I have evidence that aliens landed on the planet earth and it's more believable because you had their attention, you kept their. Attention. Soon, the guy in fact you started telling a story, you interrupted that story was another one but the human brain with likes to hear one, two, three, four, saying I heard story one, it wasn't done. He started to tell story to wait a second what the rest of story one. So eventually come back around to and close that loop, and then you come back around close the loop one story to it's a very sophisticated technique to use consciously and intentionally, but it is something that we use all the time intuitively. Yes isn't that used constantly almost two in a abusive effect and TV shows now. where? And Jerry is trapped in the room tied against the wall the hero. And then three days prior. got. Exactly. What's going on there? Exactly what's going on but we do do it in human to human communication and authors You know if you want to get good at this, just read James Patterson novels or What's Dan Brown the those authors that very shortly, ineffectively used this opening chapters in telling part of the story and then leaving a cliffhanger than picking various stories backup. Books. All have stories within stories within stories that they're stopping. And building on. I think original version of that is the worst story there was. In the Congo. Or wherever it is now. The loops now I don't know my mind works in. Weird. Ways do these loops. Possibly work in our life to in a comfort factor that we're going along going along going along going along interrupt what? Yes I think that's what happens is that stories and events interrupt us and we pay attention to them, and when we're in the daily routine, a huge percentage of what we're doing is being driven by the robot not by conscious design. If you ask most people how much of your day do you spend consciously making decisions and carefully intentionally thinking about what's going on around you and how much of your environment are you aware of most people will say, Oh, ninety percent of the time. Going on is it's the reverse I mean Rowley really. Uh Self aware and aware of our environment and make he truly carefully thought out decisions very tiny percentage of each day. Most of the time we feel Hunger Pang or or thirst, which we sometimes mistaker hunger, and then we go get something to eat or drink, and that whole thing occurs at the robot level without us actually thank you very much about it our mother or someone calls and says something that triggers a a an agitation pattern that were deeply. Two years old you know. So a lot of that is happening without us consciously thinking about it So we can like so many of the things that you and I have talked about we could use that for good or we could use it for evil. We can I think he compared me to a Nigerian. Scam, emailer is Steph was the. Nicest, possible possible way. At In the same way, we can use these nested loops. To. You know get our children's attention, our spouses, attention our partners attention in a new way to get them to share more with us We might know that somebody has a barrier aversion something that would be good for them. We could use these kind of nested loops to get their attention and to overcome. The resistance. That would be there if we just blurted out what we were thinking rather than telling a few interlaced stories. So there's where we're using it for good or you could use it in. SPAMMY MANIPULATIVE WAY and You know most people could tell the difference they have different qualitative feel to them. For. Actually the way you said that because you're leading right into what I was thinking. breaking to. Get a point across you had mentioned before about. Your. Client your settling up the media and all that and you're like. You make a noise of some kind. Now, every time I hear somebody say you make a noise? They demonstrate annoys which is so obnoxiously obviously a distraction noise is there some sort of a subtlety pattern and like okay yeah, I'm senior later. Or something like that. Is it a something? I don't know if that's more subtle but it would seem to be or does it matter I think it matters and I would have calibrated for that. So here's what I mean is some people after spending an hour with them you know you're going to have to do something more dramatic. They go deeper into the trance or you can see as the meetings wrapping up that they're already launching off the thinking about the thirty two they have to get. To after that there I might use something that's a little bit more dramatic I'm with other people all you have to do is lenient or clear your throat. You know they're still paying attention to what's going on the have shifted into where am I headed next mode yet, and in that case what I'm talking to the might might just make a little gesture like a come here gesture with my finger and lean in lean in their eyes opened up a little bit. So calibration is what distinguishes. Really. Superb. Gators from pretty good negotiators or really good communicators of persuaders from pretty good at it. So when people learn these patterns and they learn what to pay attention to they're going to be better could be better at negotiating. This is a force multiplier they're going to be better at you know interrogated finding out information but what really is takes things to the next level is understanding that. You don't have to do it the same way with everybody and that each person is having unique internal experience but they give you signs of that. They show you that they're either paying rapt attention or they're not. They're either leaning into their leaning back there I they're making contacted engaged, or they're starting to look around for their keys they. They are very, you hear people. Talk about this at a superficial level, say for example, oh I saw that he was a visual person because he made a picture. But people are visual or auditory or kinesthetic. They're all of those things. But if we really pay attention, we'll see that they might use one modality or another at important points in decision making, for example. So somebody might say to me I still don't quite see what you're say if I'm asking them to make a judgment and they start scanning around for pictures in the go is still don't see what you're saying. They've just told me we've got draw picture either mentally on a piece of paper for them so that they now seek what op say. But that, but they may prefer at other times to the conversation to be listening. It's it's not that there's one kind of person that only uses that one modality. We all use all of we all when I say the word dog everybody makes a different picture of a dog or here's the sound of a dog or sees the word dog. We all have these different eternal experiences but great communicators know that most of it is about. Watching the other person and carefully listening to what they're saying. It's much more about now. We're GONNA feel guilty saying this what I've just been rambling on, but it's much more about. Asking the right questions and then be very quiet, just listening and observing what's going on. They're gonNA, tell you consciously or not everything you need to know about the next steps to do it better And what else? Exactly. Now, you calling back another interviews. Now out of curiosity, the deep is. By the way. It's you just use the technique on me like I want to ask somebody a question and I don't want to feel like there's judgment you know that they're free to talk about it I'll say this curiouser I'm just wondering no judgment so you could go on talk about that. Sorry I interrupted you using Oh absolutely. I mean how am I gonNa say something about that. But I did interrupted. You're saying I'm just curious. No worries. Accident back into a technique there I am curious about if someone is deeper in thought like you said there three steps down the road. Are they sometimes even more susceptible to the interrupt because they're deep in the mode. I think they are they're susceptible but you gotta bring him back and there's times by the way when I wanNA snap somebody back and there's times when I want them to drift back in and feel really comfortable. So I might be saying as you are feeling more and more relaxed now that you're able to because I want them to come back still feeling that relaxed feeling now that you're feeling more and more relaxed. you're feeling more capable. Now you're able to learn even faster more quickly. Exactly. What it is that we're trying to do here aren't you? Just, use the tag question there. So I may want to help create a feeling or a mindset for them and snap back while they still have that sensation and then other times I might want them to drift back. So again, I mean this is these are very sophisticated fine distinctions that use you'd see therapists or you'd notice therapists using probably at an unconscious level but But you're making a good point which is that everybody's individual and they're experiencing things in a different way as they go through the conversation with you or go through reading your marketing materials or go through a a meeting with you where you're giving them advice whatever it might be. Also I believe when they're deep in that mode is when the hardcore manipulators like a say Darren Brown. Or somebody will get a Free Cup of coffee or hand a piece of paper said of dollar. Bill. I don't know if you've ever seen Darren Brown's example and Darren, Brown for people that don't know him is. Very skilled user of these techniques in he's a a a mental EST and out of mind magician I took my daughter to see Darren Brown when we were in London the last time live it was fantastic but he did he does the thing using this very technique that you're talking about where he just does a couple of things to confuse them a couple of different levels he saying something behaving very differently than people would expect he gets them to give them his their keys, the keys prior car. And astonishingly large percentage of people that he does this with fish, the keys out of their pocket and give them to a man they don't know. which sounds crazy but that's how into it. He's using a very elaborate confusion techniques where he's saying things, people aren't expecting making certain kinds of gestures that are incongruent with that and ask you the questions that get them thinking about things that are unrelated to what's going on happening. Yeah I've heard your known to do that call back to interview one with handshakes neither do I have used the handshake deduction, which is something very similar and had people who claim that they are hypnotized. Behind me for half hour forty, five minutes with their arms in the air while I give a talk. Now I do reward them for that by giving them all sorts of posted Dodig suggestions that they will have more of the things they want. They will have learn more than everybody else so that when they let their hands dropped down just quickly to touch their legs and they have that feeling of their touching. That deal incorporate all of those things that they've learned their now already. So I do it though he perfect segue the post hypnotic suggestion Technically aren't you? Taking advantage if you will of a cognitive bias. Or bias where somebody will take an action and then come up with the reason behind what they just did. So when you hypnotize somebody for example, and you say take your jacket off and they take it off. You say, Hey, look you take your second. Why was hot I felt like it. Yeah I mean I don't think that that science completely here's what science has clearly demonstrated that there is a phenomenon. That we call hypnosis in which people behave differently when they're in a purely conscious state. how much of that is they are playing law And how much of it is something happening even below that level. I don't think is is clearly understood but I do know that I've I've seen and I've also done demonstrations where we have at least temporarily given someone Amnesia for the number six and then heads do math. And they do it without the number six in a way that would be hard to do at the conscious level. So I suspect that some of these states. which could be very useful for people to make change in their life in positive ways to get insight into themselves in ways that they hadn't before. some of the states are really powerful and useful for that. So. yeah. I would agree that you a generally speaking I'm not doing stage not learned hypnosis in a therapeutic context where you're helping people to overcome addictions or phobias and things like that of at which it's very effective by the way. But I have seen lots of stage hypnosis. Demonstrations and I have performed them kind of as a sideline sometimes when I'm speaking as a way of illustrating the power of these language patterns and you know they could be they could be pretty effective both for the person who's who's quote going into hypnosis and for the audience watching because the audience is brain does it distinguish infect Milton Erickson? WHO's the father of modern medical hypnosis used to use a technique? Rude, say Joan there you are next to bob going into a trance. Now that's phonetically ambiguous is Joan next to bob going into a trance or his joan next Bob going into a WHO's going into the truth to the chance but if the effectively both of them do. Clever wordplay. On that, is it easier? For example, you mentioned forgiving the number six is kind of a low risk thing because many of us hate math anyway. So. We really don't take much convincing. Can we forget all the numbers say let's get rid of the whole. Arabic alphabet Arabic number system we're at it. Is easier to push on little things or specific things that other things are much more difficult to manipulate. Well. I mean again I guess I would make the distinction here. What a stage hypnosis hypnosis demonstration does is what that person looking for? The, the man or the woman that's kind of running the demonstration is going to take the audience through a series of. questions and techniques, and they're to say stand out, and then they're going to talk for a while in a certain number of people sit down. Well, they're not highly suggestive or not good hypnotic subjects. So the person running. Show is going to ignore them, and then they're going to say well for the people still standing by the way raise your right hand now, lower out, raise it up again, and only a certain number of people will do all of those things. So now we have it will they'll say, okay, you four, they saw do everything perfectly so far end up I want you to put your hands together and imagine there's glue in there and try issue you may your brain believes there's glue in there. It's like, let you pull them apart and two of the three will just pull the art to of. Two of the four will pull their heads part of the forward will struggle and will be able to. One of them is probably playing along more than the other, but they're both good subjects for a demonstration of noses to a big audience like that. You know that's that's more having to do with fun than therapeutic intervention But still some of those same concepts apply even in therapy you know there are a lot of people that don't like being told to raise their hands and let them float there in front of them. So according to the Stanford hypnotize ability scale, they might be hypnotized. But Milton Erickson. Wouldn't have said that because he said, well, they might also just not like to hold their hand up. So Milton would say go to the beach and lie down fields and and feel some face goes. The person might be terrified to the beach but Milton might say I don't know where you go to relax and what you think of. How you begin to breathe in a different ways you relax war deeply now. I don't know what you think of in do in your mind but you do. And you could see that's a non authoritarian non directed kind of language pattern. He doesn't even note need to know what they're doing, but they're going to do like if I say to your audience, don't think of the color. Blue. They must think of the color blue understanding and Milton says I don't know how you breathe when you relax what you think of the pictures you make and how your muscles begin to feel different. But they must have been six could empowering them help then. Take me with you to your place where you can relax somewhere. You just enjoy I'm not we go there now together or or whatever. So that is I mean I understand what you're doing there. But what I think some people would say is they might be terrified of taking you there they might want to owe US whereas them going, they're not as scary. Okay. Okay. So did just a distinction that might matter if might not you seem like you would take me to your secret place not that that would be creepy but and I love. France looks but some people are. Good point never thought of it. That's why I asked them. Well, e see you revealed that by saying what you said, your your unconscious mind is telling me hey, I'm not afraid of that whereas if you were if you secretly harboured that fear, you would never have used that as an example with me. So I learned as of talking to people I'm learning about how they think all the time and I'm paying attention to that. Which is definitely a good thing and circling back around again. You mentioned tag. Let's tag onto that this and in your past. Your stand, up? Comedian. Who by you? Do you do frightening? You dig into the past I was I made most of my spending money When I was in law school performing comedy clubs. Yeah and that may be a better. Speaker. Better. Teacher think because you've to get out there and overcome the fear that you're gonNA make steak. You have to get out there and overcome the. Concern or fear what everyone to call it that you're gonNA bomb. you have to make if you really WanNa feel rewarding like your success we have to make people laugh. So it's funny I virtually fear I still feel like a little like butterflies in the stomach kind of thing sometimes, if I'm speaking to big convention or conference. And I just know that that's like go time that just my signal I'm ready to go. It doesn't devolve into terror and I think that comes from really honing those skills when I was a comedian I will say that. started. Working for a very old law firm very old respected law from Philadelphia was two, hundred, six years old when I started working for them and it was still appearing comedy clubs and a magazine. Covered lawyers was legal magazine and they used to do a column on lawyers who are marathon sort lawyers who are. By athletes and I was the lawyer who is a comedian and they came to a couple comedy clubs at took pictures of me, and there was an embarrassing picture which I was swinging a microphone out toward the audience and it looked rather risque and I was called was called in told. Like we're not really sure this is the image that we WANNA be portraying. But because I'd spent so much time in the comedy clubs I was fearless. While the. Comedy I would think goes hand in hand because you are trying to control the audience, you're trying to control the rhythm constantly comedy timing. And I think you realize to this goes to the individuality of the experience. The audience as a group has a sort of feel it a dynamic to it but especially in a smaller club where you could see, there's only one hundred people or something like that. You can kind of see the different people are reacting differently to certain kinds of routines and. And And you just want to get to a point. Once you get to a point where you twenty percent of the room laughs that's tough going. Once you get fifty percent fifty, five percent of the room responding favourably at, you're going to get the whole room I mean, 'cause the groups pressure to to laugh or. To cry become stronger. It develops kind of personality of its own the audience did you ever toy with them? I. Know How to come clean like to try to Piss them? Off. Whole, back my friend my friend she used to say, we know that you're doing comedy strictly for you. that it almost doesn't matter. They were writing one way I mean I really did care about the audience. I wanted the good time, but it wasn't essential to me as long as I was at the time. And you still carry that now right I do it's a very, very power attitude. Guessing that's your life attitude. Yeah I mean I care very much about lots of people. but. I feel like I serve them best when I'm not dependent on feeling a certain way from external stimuli all the time like I get. Sometimes I'M GONNA make people happy. Sometimes they're going to be less happy. Some people are built to work with me and bill to work with them and other people are probably not a good match. It did really help me with marketing that I wasn't totally dependent on universal approval because I learned early on that certain people loved the way I did Sakes and certain people you know it they they do the process, they pay me the money, but they didn't have a great time. So I eventually started to build my marketing. To gently repulsed people that wouldn't like the way I did it. and. To really attract the people that would love working with me. So you're right. I mean I I've never realized this until now achey too but I think that comedy and working in clubs and honing that attitude. Really helped me to accelerate quickly got to an audience of people that that I felt like I could really help and they loved the way I was helping them. And I, know a lot of comedians will deliberately almost push out that ten percent If they know that they're irritated but they've got the rest of the crowd. So they almost on him. Yeah. You're not, GonNa, win them over so. And, you always thrived for humans need an enemy. Really. Thrive. In an environment where this one enemy. Well, let's switch to friends. I've always wanted to know where third interview, Steve Forbes yet on the world you knows. Steve Forbes. While I worked on Steve's presidential campaigns way back in the day with he was running on the platform of the postcard sized ten forty. So that's flat tax flat tax dave. And I I'm friends I don't think she would disagree with this I'm friends with Steve's sister. Who I very much enjoy and she does amazing charitable work in our community. And so Oh, you're referring I recently had lunch with Steve. Well I eat just you have quotes from him and I know then Oliver Per Toma Few Times. So how do you know him? Yes. So that is that's how I got to know him and I just I had lunch with him. In Newark, just a little bit before our our conversation here he was in a hilarious. Mode to. I was got to watch too I brought a a as a guest Jason Feffer, who is the Editor in Chief of Entrepreneur magazine who had become friendly with. Enda he and Jason were talking about all sorts of things. Jayson has very interesting podcast key at lunch. We talked about how he built it. So it was interesting how Cheryl that with you? Definitely I'm. With bated breath on that. Talk after we you're an awesome interviewers so you should have a big audience. We're working on it. Swinging around. Business or black business ops, which is his. What's that? You do do researcher you're like the we're like the CIA the NSA I'm assuming you're listening in on me when I'm just walking around the house things. That's a big. Depends on the boards. I have a friend who worked for the NSA for many years still does and I was joking around with them about it and he didn't even acknowledge it. You just kept staring straight ahead I think because he or listening, but I was talking to it. Okay. I miss segue policies audience, but I was interviewing somebody. Who was the CIA? And I asked about a place that's nearby me. And he looked at me blank land. So I have no idea what you're talking about. And I'm like really doesn't. Just, don't know anything. That was a nested loop there we were talking about a business black ops and then we diverted off into hell you are like the CIA. Then we told the CIA story, we go back to the business black ops perfect, and so here business black ops is a group that I run where if you like these things if you like the idea of being more persuasive and being a better negotiator or by the way if you liked the idea of being able to escape from handcuffs or a duct tape, but feel like the idea of picking locks, these are all things I do teach them all of these sorts of skills that they apply in a variety of ways. But I also. I want to jump into that real quick is some of that due to especially international businessman that you may deal with, and there are very legitimate concerns by kidnapping and things of that sort. Yeah I think that that. That people underestimate sometimes the danger. It's easy to overestimate the dangerous scare yourself stop president but I think we live in a society that's been so safe. For so long that people have gotten used to. Being Unaware of their surroundings and have it really cultivated situational awareness that that would serve them. Well. So cultivating situational awareness is is a useful technique like I, I've taught people, US surveillance detection roots, for example so I've taught people how to find out if they're being tailed or lose a tale if they have now, we'll most of us that life no most of us will need that life but it's a very powerful metaphor for being more aware of our surroundings and understanding that if we have trade secrets, we should treat them like trade secrets. If we have proprietary information, we should treat it like proprietary formation we should. Gather information on our best clients customer. So we understand them we should know what our competition is up to. We should have a skunkworks that's innovative. We should have our own cue that helps us to develop the weapons that were going to use the services and products to provide to our customers, clients in patients. So I taught people to pick locks and you might say, okay but you know there's a lot going on there when you understand the mechanisms that you use to protect yourself and your property in your intellectual property and you understand how easily they could be defeated, you might take more care with that. So business black OPS is. They get a monthly newsletter in which I discuss all manner of crazy topics. And and there's always a strategic piece of newsletter in a practical piece of the strategic pieces just gaining business people, business owners predominantly to be thinking about things in a new way, and then the practical pieces what are the management tools, the marketing tools that they can either use depending on where they're working in the business or share with people in the Businesses. So we give a monthly I, call it the intelligence briefing. We also tell them things that are going on in the economy that they might or might not know about and and then we have a couple of live events each year where we teach particular kinds of skills and the one big live event which takes place in Arizona, I mean I've had. Marines and military handgun instructors there with each person who taught him how to use a gun safely this is the eighty twenty rule you and I talked about the last time burrito principle we teach them how to handle a gun safely. We teach them how to shoot. They're usually bad. So but the instructor at each lane is watching and saying, okay, I'm an expert and your enough I'm going to give you three little things to do one at a time and they teach them the three things. That make all the difference in their shooting pros. So there again, it's an activity, but it's a metaphor for learning to acquire expertise very quickly and for making distinctions water. The few things that matter and most of the things that we do a lot of times don't matter that could be in our marketing that could be in our management that could be in our development of products and services how we launched them present themselves business black offices, just a way of of it's it's A. Team Really of business people that. Don't have the common sense not to come back and they just keep coming back year after year after year. And they apparently want monthly because this newsletter people are devouring. It's it's a lot of fun but right to. Free call now are is part of what you're trying to do his take them outside of their comfort zone. In things that they'd feel awkward. I mean like a lot of people feel very uncomfortable out handling a pistol. And it's true. We've been make that overt. We say look you know your comfort zone is this big maybe it's a six inch fear if you just if you take them out of their comfort zone by an institute, you've in his fear Oracle sense you've expanded the world in which they operate comfortably now. By by a great deal. So we are constantly trying to take them out of their comfort zone in three dimensions rather than just a to and it is it was very uncomfortable. I had a woman C E of their who said listen I know people like guns I don't like guns and. I'll come with you I'll watch, but I don't want handle up and then I talked a little bit while she was watching people and I said, yeah. It's kind of important that you understand gun safety. Even if you like don't like what if you found water, what if a child found one pointed out to you need to know how to handle safety. So she conceded that flag forward about fifteen minutes later she's with a handsome marine shooting and she shouted at me to get her more ammo. Of course the Naughty phrased. Tell me to do it too so. Which of course, he responded to even instantaneously yet got my attention right away and the point just was she radically expanded what she thought. She was capable of the area in which she could, which was already pretty big the areas where where she felt comfortable not intimidated working in comfortable and capable in working. So yes, it there's there's always a metaphor to these things and yes, there almost always designed to take people out of their comfort zone. For just the least nick. That's why I kind of brought all this up because. I see this as a pattern in life and like what you're describing will help everybody get outside their comfort zone. Other factors when you talked about it. Knowing your enemy things like that I think that people could take value. Of having having better. Situational. Awareness. Inside of a freaking board meeting, if you're in a meeting with a bunch of other people. What are they really saying because everybody spouting off words but there messages that are underlying. If, you can pick up on the on the musicality underneath and the undercurrents. You don't even have to hear the word. You could almost close your ears into swatch the people. And you can see things coming like if you're laid off in two weeks you can. Smell it. Well I think you're right that most of us are when we're in these group meetings were planning what we're going to say when we see the Trista stop talking rather than listening to what they're saying. Rather than watching their body posture and their facial expression enlisting to the tempo of their voice as well as the words they're saying, we miss out on. So much of that because we're not there we're thinking about when that person's done, I'm going to say this and. When we train ourselves to pay more attention to what's going on around us, which some of these exercises. Do. We really start to enhance that and you used another technique technique on me. You know when somebody's finished talking and you simply listen and then when they're done, leave the islands, they'll keep going lot of times prompted by saying and what else I think I understand. Can you describe that for me one more time because you'll get more nuance this time so you're right that. It especially in group meetings, but even one on one a lot of times we're not even there were not even paying attention to what's going on. So we're not even getting the superficial level much less the second and third and fourth levels down. Great Point and I was thinking I guess I sent some of that I often am the lowest ranking person any room. So maybe that has served me to the advantage that I know my job is to shut up. So I spent a whole lot of time. Observing everybody else in the room and I guess I have a piece of advice that maybe everybody should. Worry less about what they're saying a more about observing will that is if there was one piece of advice that any great negotiator interrogator communicated persuader influence would would say was. The key to that mindset it's that one. Because And I, think I've said this before in our conversations, what most people are never there so they don't see it and most people assume that the words the person is is using the same thing to them. And so they don't go any deeper and they never asked for that and they don't realize that typically the first run at communication is at best inaccurate and probably ally person says talk to you is lying to themselves about what they're thinking or at least they haven't fully explored the got to the meat of what really matters to them without going further. Hence the effect of the technique and what else? What else do we need to know? Can you explain that to me again? But that's not even deliberate. Is it? No? No no they don't even I guess if you think that a lie is deliberately withholding the truth or saying something affirmatively inaccurate then maybe it's not ally because most people aren't intentionally doing it's just happening unintentionally they just when when I ask someone a question, they're gonNA, give me the superficial answer when they were probably prepared to give me. But they will go further if I ask them to go further. And they're gonNA give me lots of cues and information. If I simply ask for it, I pay attention to what they're saying give them room to be clear to explain things to me. Okay and. You have another technique. Is there. Another question. Is there another question? or any. Other questions. Oh. Is there any other question you need to ask me now that Techni? Sure Well I mean I. I have a bunch of them here for folks. you know like the six word question for example, we'll let me I lose into something earlier. I said, Oh that's a force multiplier. You know all these skills. So I should before I give you any more of them. Meaning to the audience I should explain what I mean by a football player. In the military. Night night-vision is a very powerful force multiplier. So if you have a person armed with night-vision, they can engage the enemy at night that's considered to be a five times for small supplier. If you. Enforce multipliers are synergistic. So few carefully select Special Forces Tier One operators, and you train them to be better than everybody else and you give them night-vision. Those are cumulatively going to give you a truly superior warrior that if you train them to be a cohesive members of a highly effective team armed with night-vision, that's going to be a fifty or a hundred times force multiplier. So Force multipliers I think of a business as being tools and techniques and skills that when we hone them or technologies that when we use them, make us individually way more powerful than we were without them and and communication skills in persuaded skills in the skills of influence that we've been talking about over these three times. Fall into that category they make us better at everything. We do I mean if you're really. Superb listener and communicator, and you're very able to understand that persuasion requires you to find out what the other person needs out this as does and you know some of the big strategic mindsets, as well as the techniques and tactics of the people that are great at this, you're going to be a better father or parent. You're going to be a better spouse or partner lover. You're going to be a better business partner. You're going to be a better manager of people going to be a better negotiator get better deals make deals that are more rewarding everybody involved you just better at everything and so. On that note. Yes. WADER Yoshi Inter aren't they up a piece? Are they. Of a piece. Of One thing Oh. You're not negotiating with persuading. Aren't you? We'll I suppose it's possible. I mean I guess it depends on how we define them it. I. Think of a persuader as a defective persuader as somebody who finds out what is really clear about what their own needs are and is really clear about what the other person needs and and tries to find common areas. SO THAT IS A. Valuable skill in negotiation. I think the skills of each inform the other so that okay. So you negotiate to find what each side wants and then work on the persuasion. Yeah. So a lot of times here's what I mean by persuasion in the course of two Goshi, we may find out that the other side needs these three things. And it may take some persuasion or education to get the realize what you want. The three things you want are not incompatible with those three things, and if you could find three things you want. That are no pain for them or in some way synergistically enhance the three things they want your good come to a deal. So I think they're both they Similar goals and they use skills that are compatible with one another but I think of them in them in separate ways. And I also think, maybe we've talked about this before but I'm very careful. I think persuasion is hard work but being a true influence there and earning the ability to influence others is is. Is. The. End Result of really good persuasion skills. So you persuade somebody and you give them good information and you give them a good result and you do that a couple of times they're going to trust you. So implicitly that when they want something, they're going to start to turn to you to give them answers and to give them guidance to get them systems and methodologies for achieving what they want, and they're gonNA credit you to a certain extent with helping them to have it or at least be a catalyst. So now you're influential influential, you're not doing the hard work of persuading them each time they're coming to you. So I make a distinction between. Being influential, being persuasive and being a good negotiator. But you're right they are all linked and the skills that make you better at each of those. Are Real Force multipliers. I mean. Being a better negotiator is going to be in every aspect of your life is better because you're finding ways to get what you want and give other people things that they want as well and when you do that over and over again, you build these relationships that are powerful and long lasting and ultimately just create better outcomes more automatically without even having to build trust because now you've shown this person that they can trust you two or three or four times, and they assume that that trust is going to be there. And of course, there's a magic bullet, right? There's no magic bullet. Trust order well He. Well that's goes a long way. That is true. There's. If you let that infused everything you do but everybody here's the thing is everybody Develops Trust situationally in different ways. Church the good news is that most of us have us a fairly small number of tests that we use. Different context so that developing trust. So you could say again like Oh, you're going to use techniques to develop trust well yeah you are and the sooner you figure out what the other person's tests for trust are in this context as long as you're motivated not to deceive them but to honestly deliver what it is that you're offering than building trust faster is better and if the silicates things I have a I could share it for you do show notes I'm not sure. mediocre. Once I will have links, I could put them in there. I'll give you an access access to a document that I did on trust and trust building in different contexts that I think your audience might find help like helpful. Because it is as you say, trust is that it that it fuses all of these things makes you better at all of them? We. What you're saying is these are techniques to help you engage with a person to make them feel comfortable enough to to give you trust initially in it's your job to earn that trust or to prove that they were correct. Correct. They're giving it to you. Yeah, and then keep reinforcing it as long as you keep reinforcing that trust that turns into influence because you're now trustworthy where we're not exactly you've you've become trustworthy, you don't have to prove it every time in the hardest possible ways. So I, I have a series of techniques. The six word question is one of them. One of the things that we talked about the six question is well academic straight it now you and I could see one another not everybody can. So I'm going to describe what I'm doing is I go. I wanted my kids for example to do something that I knew was good for them and that would make their life better. And I. I ask them I'm sure everybody that's listening. That's a parent has had this experience where you ask the kids to do something ride their bike without training wheels or take a lesson of a musical instrument or get outside get were exercise or play sports something that would be good for them. But I can't Yup the when you asked me to go I can't. I can't do that, which is usually motivated by fear. and. Most. Parents. Think that they're being supportive when they say, yes, you can. And they say it's just like that to go. You can, of course, you can do it. But what they're really doing is is just pure argumentation. The suggested something. The kids said, no, they're now telling the kids the kids are all, and then of course, they could do it will this causes a child or an adult in this situation to go inside and figure out all the reasons. They're right in your role that is defeating the very thing you're trying to do here, which is to be persuasive and get them to do something that would be good for them. So I don't think the color blue. Yeah exactly. They don't think of the color blue they're going to think of it. So what I would do I used to argue with kids all the time by saying, yes, you can, of course, you can do it. But as I became more skilled at these things, I would have the following kind of conversation stead. I'd say we'll look I i. know you feel like you can. So. Let me just break that down for a second. I know you feel like you can't is seems to the kid to be an acknowledgment of what they're feeling. Right but they said I can't which is an absolute. I know I know you feel like you can't yet. So I added a presupposition on there I know like you feel like you can't yet. So when I've added that presupposition, it presupposes that at some point they'll be able to. Write internally, they must make a representation of themselves being able to do it. So I I appeared to agree with them, but I secretly implanted a thought in their mind that they might be able to. And so then. So I know you feel like you can't yet. Then I look around go to trigger the Czar Guy Nick Affect something you're asking about. And I, lean in and I go. I, where where's your mom? Now. If you say that to a kid if a dad's sister kit, where's your mom? They know that what's going to come next? We'll be superb. So you have figured curiosity and focused attention now that'd be weird if you're at work using this technique and you leaned in and said, Suzie where's your mom that she would probably call the police or HR? But. The way you would do it at work is you would just change your tone of voice a little bit say what I say to the kids I'm just curious I'm just wondering. 'cause now there's no judgment. We talked a little bit about this before we're when we say we're just curious for just wondering that's all they are. We are. We're not going to judge what they have to say. So it puts the kids response to the question about the ask the six word question into a totally different context. So we've done a couple of things we said I know you feel like you can't So we've broken through. We've introduced the idea that they might be able to yet further introduces the idea that they might be able to hit that twice. Now, we've triggered this guy nick effect by leaning in whispering or changing our tone of voice. We've dissipated the a problem of judgement by saying, I'm just curious and then I asked the question and if you Google Dave freeze in the six question, you'll see video of me doing this I just say. Just curious or I'm just wondering what would happen if you or what would happen if you could. Now at this point, they must imagine themselves doing it, and often like if you're asking a teenager this, they're not gonNA give you satisfaction saying, well, then I'd have a great time what the heck I'm going to do it. But if you ask little kid this, they will offer go well, I would have a great time I'm going to go do it now. If at work this works miracles I. Mean I've had somebody I've said somebody can we do these three things by next season Ono that would be impossible? I can't do that. And say well I. Knew You feel like you can't yet but I am just curious. What would have to change in order for you to feel completely short certain that you could get this done by next Thursday while I would need somebody to take the phones and I need somebody to do this transcription. So we just went from an absolute. It's impossible to two things within my power to make them happen, and it's all done and notice how I asked that question what would need to change or would you need in order to feel completely sure in certain that you could accomplish it by Tuesday Wednesday. Also leaning into Dini's commitment on that I. Am I am triggering a little bit of a micro commitment there 'cause all asking them to do is to tell me what would have to change in order for them to feel that way. So now they're putting forth that this would happen. This would have to happen. INNOCENCE, their committing themselves down that patch in in fact, it's even better than that that you're exactly correct but I'm asking them what would have to happen in order for them to feel that way and you'll see them sort of do a little search in they'll tell you and they will have triggered that feeling within themselves that it could be done that they would feel completely showing certain could be done. So it's a it's a powerful technique. Well, this has been. Another great. Our I have a feeling I may have to. Lay Down Am. So what would it take? What would it look like if you were to come on unstructured again and I would look in the air and I would say I will. What a wet your appetite One of the things you really going to love. About having me on is that I'll share ten more techniques. Now, here's the thing about the technique. One of the things you really GonNa love implies that there are many more things you're going to love. So we're laying the foundation for you to feel that love or excitement or name the word that you want them to feel. Perfect. And thanks so much again. Thanks for listening and if you like what you heard, please consider subscribing for free and I mean four free it is always free. There's no billing anything else. You can subscribe in your player of choice, which is probably right in your hands or you can good unstructured pod dot com and there are plenty of links there. Thank you so much and in the spirit of sharing, here's a couple more shows you want check. I did not grow up with very much money money say energy. Really scares me yet about sixty granted money isn't the answer somebody should just give me a lot of money. My dream was to be the WB wrestler, but you realize that your dreams changed over the years as a tool it's key to gate and the other side of the gate is the things you really want to do with your life. It's the things that matter most to you. It's pursuing those values may ultimately happy listen to inspired money at inspired money FM. Hey I'm studio. Steve's Veronica and we. We have a podcast all about podcasting. We cover everything related to the craft how start a podcast? Prove podcast, how to promote a podcast and how to reach a bigger audience. So come check out our PODCAST pod sound school. We're on all of the players or on our website pottstown school dot com we are dedicated to provide our policies with up to date EC actionable information sometimes are -rageous, and always fun. No. Regularly scheduled programing.
NPR News: 07-31-2019 12PM ET
"Support for this podcast and the following message come from frame bridge they make custom framing easy and affordable frame your art in photos at frame bridge dot com or visit visit their new stores located on Fourteenth Street and Bethesda row. Get fifteen percent off your first frame bridge order with Code N._P._R.. Live from N._p._R.. News in Washington I'm Lakshmi Singh. Rodway mourns a legend today director and producer Harold Prince has died in Iceland Iceland after brief illness. He was ninety one years old his legacy includes enduring major hits such as cabaret sweeney todd and the phantom some of the opera and as Jeff London reports Prince won an unprecedented twenty one Tony Awards Hell Prince was at the center of the American musical theater from the latter half of the twentieth century into the twenty-first he began his career as a producer with Pajama game in nineteen fifty four and followed showed up with such hit shows as Damn Yankees West side story and fiddler on the roof but it was as a director where Killer Lee with the work of songwriters Stephen Sondheim rings or Jibes Comes Company and Andrew Lloyd Webber. The Phantom of the opera is the longest running Broadway musical of all time for for N._p._R.. News I'm Jeff London in New York. Puerto Rico's embattled governor is nominating the U._S. territories former representative in Congress Congress to eventually be his replacement governor he got the Rosillo has chosen bevo Pierre Louis C. to become secretary of state and next in line for the Commonwealth's Commonwealth's top office as of Friday. However rosillo selection sets up a showdown in the legislature where Beverly U._C.? Faces heavy opposition Puerto WTA Ricans have stage mass demonstrations for the governor's resignation Democrats competing for their party's presidential nomination in two thousand twenty or trying to up their game to stay in the game. C._N._N.'s moderating the second tonight democratic debate of the primary season ten were candidates are getting ready for a volley of questions this evening in Detroit. Perhaps better informed about what to do or not op do after watching their rivals performances last night. We have more on that from Including Medicare for all while many other candidates on stage including former Congressman John Delaney cautioned about going too far too fast so I think Democrats win when we run on real solutions not impossible promises when we run on things that are workable not Fairytale Economics Warren hit back. You know I don't understand why anybody anybody goes to all the trouble of running for president of the United States just to talk about what we really can't do and shouldn't site for tonight former Vice President Joe uh-huh Biden. WE'LL BE AT center stage with Senators Kamla Harris and cory booker on either side of him Timbre Keith N._p._R.. News at last check on Wall Street. The Dow is up twenty points at twenty seven thousand two hundred eighteen. You're listening to N._P._R.. News President President trump may finally be getting what he's been needling the Fed to do for months in that's cut interest rates. N._P._R.'s Scott horsely reports that at the conclusion of its two day meeting in Washington Washington D._C.. The Federal Bank as he left the White House for a day trip trump told reporters the U._S.. Economy could be growing faster than the Fed not raised interest rates on four separate occasions last year disappointed in the bed. I think they acted too quickly by far and I think I've been proven right people that I was right. They were on the Fed in the bed. Insist guided by economic signals not political pressure trump's policies have contributed to rising uncertainty around the world that intern intern has slowed economic growth and forced the central bank to consider a rate cut Scott horsely N._p._R.. News Washington a private survey finds U._S.. Companies added did one hundred fifty six thousand jobs in July the Associated Press reporting that prey world processor eighty pieces larger firms accounted for most of the gains Congolese health officials confirmed that a second Ebola patient in the city of Goma has died. They have yet to
What's next after Trump acquittal?
"At dana farber cancer institute. We know that by asking the right question. You could get an answer. You never imagined. Like dr william g kaelin junior who won the nobel prize for a question that showed how cancer cells hijacked the body systems to get the oxygen. They need this led to a new class of oxygen regulating drugs. For kidney cancer patients it may even impact heart disease. Anemia and macular degeneration learn about our nearly seventy five year momentum discovery at danafarber dot org slash everywhere. Good morning. i'm taylor wilson and this is five things you need to know monday. The fifteenth february twenty twenty one here are some of the top headlines. Investigations are ongoing after a pair of separate mole shootings on valentine's day. One person is dead after an altercation at a phoenix mole. Also left two people injured and three people were injured at a mole. Shooting in north charleston. South carolina. Some senators or calling for a bipartisan commission to investigate last month's capital riots. That comes after former president. Donald trump was acquitted over the weekend for his role in the attack and health. Experts are worried about the new south african variants of covid nineteen stay tuned for all the latest. The senate acquitted former president. Donald trump a second time on saturday a fifty seven to forty three majority voted to convict trump on an impeachment charge that he incited the deadly riot at the capital last month seven. Republicans joined the democrats in the vote. But it wasn't enough. The count was short of the two-thirds majority needed to convict. Democratic senate majority leader. Chuck schumer said the vote. Not to convict. Trump will live in infamy january. Sixth will live as a day of infamy in the history of the united states of america. The failure to convict donald trump will live as a vote of infamy in the history of the united states senate. My fellow americans. Remember that day january sixth forever the final terrible legacy of the forty fifth president of the united states and undoubtedly our worst late it live on in infamy a stain on donald john trump. That can never never be washed away. Republican senate minority leader mitch mcconnell voted to acquit trump like so many of his republican colleagues but he also went after trump just moments after the vote. There's no question. The president trump is practically and morally responsible for provoking the events of the day. No question about the people storm. This building believed they were acting on the wishes and instructions. President president trump were still in office. I would have carefully considered whether the house managers proved their specific charge. But in this case the question is moot because former president trump trump is constitutionally not eligible or conviction after intense reflection. I believe the best constitutional reading shows that article to suction four exhaust the set of persons. Who can legitimately be impeached. Tried or convicted. It's the president the vice-president and civil officers washington managing editor karen bowen and senior video producer. Hannah garber watched the impeachment trial from start to finish. They sat down when it was all over to wrap things up ronald right. What are we not seeing. That might actually be the long-term take away from this. Well i think one of the takeaways from this is that the republican battle is not over yet not by a long shot You know the president indicated in his statement that he feels vindicated and that he feels ready to sort of come back in the public eye however you have seen more republicans come out and criticize him and do so sharply than you had in the entire for years that he was president so the question is are these republicans who have gone against him including the lawmaker who issued a statement last night on the eve of the last day of the trial. Saying hey wait a minute. Trump indicated that he was unwilling to stop the rioters after. Kevin mccarthy pleaded with him that republican lawmaker. You know she could be facing pressure from her constituents over that and so they're all kinds of questions. These republicans who had voted in favor of convicting troub- how much retribution will be so there was this unexpected moment of drama right. Everyone sort of thought people were going to try to rush through this. The senators are the witnesses and yet when it came to the moment where the house managers were allowed to call. Witnesses raskin dead. He requested it. So talk us through what we saw. Was that shocking. I mean there was a whole kerfuffle raskin's call for witnesses was surprising but what was even more surprising was that they got more than fifty senators to vote for it. And i think even the senators who voted for witnesses seemed surprised that that boat actually passed. I don't think they were expecting that. I think you know it. What happened was people came to the conclusion on their own that they weren't comfortable saying let's just move to final statements. They wanted to know more. About trump's conversation with kevin mccarthy and there was a feeling that there was more to find out here and then you know it was. It was kind of like the dog that caught the car when they when they actually ended up passing that motion both the republicans and democrats were left deciding. Okay what do we do now. We started to get some initial reports that there was gonna be a compromise. Where d- information about kevin mccarthy's phone call. That was brought to the attention of the senators by a lawmaker would be read into the record and not long after the talk of that compromise surfaced. Then we heard that they had cut a deal over it. And i think that what happened is both the republicans and the democrats didn't wanna go there like when they really thought that would be involved. In calling witnesses from both sides it would potentially be a six week process. That would you know derail any other. Business in the senate including biden's call for a nearly two trillion stimulus package and i don't think anybody had the stomach for it. It's president's day. The holiday is celebrated in the us. On the third monday of february it began as an unofficial holiday on george washington's february twenty second birthday in eighteen hundred just two months after his and then did not become a federal holiday until eighteen. Seventy nine when president. Rutherford b hayes signed it into law then in one thousand nine hundred seventy one as part of the uniform. Monday holiday act. It was moved to the third monday of the month in part to give workers more three day weekends. Today it's also recognized as a time for lots of discounts from stores and it's a federal bank holiday meaning. Us financial markets will be closed. There growing concerns about the south african variant of covid nineteen. A lot is still unknown about the variant. But dr anthony fauci said on sunday that current vaccines are less effective against it foul. She also said there have been cases of people who got infected with the original virus and then reinfected with the south african variant overall covid. Nineteen cases continued to decline in the us. On friday cases fell below one hundred thousand for the first time since early november. It's also less than half the rate reported just last month but reported variant cases continued to rise on sunday. There were eleven hundred ninety three varian cases across the country more than double the total from february fourth. The variant that originated in britain makes up the vast majority meanwhile the world health organization continues to investigate the origins of the corona virus in china. But the country is refusing to give raw data on early cases. Enrollments is reopening. Monday for obamacare. The department of health and human services is reopening insurance enrollment through may fifteenth. That'll give a new coverage opportunity to americans who have lost their jobs and employer based insurance during the pandemic and comes after enrollment for the plans did in december in most states. Nearly nine million uninsured. Americans could get free or subsidized health insurance through the special enrollment period. According to the nonpartisan health research organization kaiser family foundation former donald trump had resisted calls for a special enrollment period for people who became uninsured during the pandemic and he repeatedly endorsed repealing the affordable care act. The national weather service says that idaho washington and oregon should all prepare for heavy snowfall on monday. That comes as near record cold. Temperatures continue to freeze parts of the country. Icy roads will keep causing headaches this week. In the south and in texas governor greg abbott declared a state of emergency. The texas highway patrol on sunday reported a number of multi car pile ups including one with twenty five vehicles. That comes after a one hundred thirty three car pile up in fort worth last week. Left at least six people dead. Hundreds of flights have also been canceled around the country. Thanks for listening to five things. Be sure to subscribe for free and you can also drop us. Five stores on apple podcasts. Thanks as always declare thornton shannon green and oliver gray reports for their work on the show. Five things is part of the usa. Today starting with the right question is the most critical step of any science at dana. Farber cancer institute. We know that by asking the right question. You could get an answer. You never imagine how to human cells. Adjust the amount of oxygen. They need to live with that incisive question our own. Dr william g kaelin. Junior won the nobel prize. Were showing. how cancer cells hijacked the body systems to give themselves the oxygen they need. This discovery has led to a new class of oxygen regulating drugs for kidney cancer patients and may lead us beyond cancer to potentially impact heart disease. Anemia in macular degeneration audacious questions have built a momentum of discovery at dana farber cancer institute for nearly seventy years gutu danafarber dot org slash and seeing how what we do here. Changes lives everywhere.
Officers Not Charged, Tiger Woods Hospitalized & Mail Trucks Makeover- Wednesday, February 24th, 2021
"Today is wednesday february. Twenty fourth will explain a grand juries decision not to charge officers involved in a controversial and deadly police interaction. And what to know about the rollover crash the tiger woods in the hospital plus more vaccines on the way what new data shows about college enrollment and how the. us is going high tech welcome. Welcome to the newsworthy. All the day's news around ten minutes fast fair fund and on the go. I'm erica mandy. Thanks so much for being here. You're ready. let's do the for the first time. Lawmakers questioned officials who were in charge of security today of the capital riot and for the most part they all pointed fingers all four of the former and current officials who testified before senators. This week agreed on two main points. One federal intelligence authorities didn't give strong enough warnings that an attack was being planned and to the pentagon was slow to provide national guard. Backup on that second point. The former capital police chief said defense officials dragged their feet for hours. Even after law enforcement officials begged for more help. Now senators are asking some pentagon officials to share their side of the story and testify at the next hearing. The pentagon has said before that it takes time to get troops together and when they offered more help earlier they were turned down as far as what else might have gone. Wrong ahead of the riott. The former capital police chief stevenson said his did get a report from the fbi the night before the riot warning about extremist groups preparing for war but sun said the report never made it up the chain of command to him and two other former security officials. The house and senate sergeant and arms also said they never saw it eventually. Five people died in the riot including a capital police officer. It was the deadliest attack on congress in two hundred years. The three top security officials resigned shortly after and now the former capital police chief says he regrets that decision. He also wants the fbi to start collecting more data on extremists. Here in the us in fact today the house is set to hear from domestic terrorism experts and expect the next senate hearing on capitol security to happen as soon as next week. A grand jury has made the call officers in rochester. New york will not face criminal charges for controversial incident. That left a black man dead. Hundreds of protesters gathered in rochester last night to show their frustration with the decision. This all dates back to about a year ago in march twenty twenty daniel. Prude's brother had called police because prude was apparently having some kind of psychotic episode when police got there. Prude was naked in the street. They handcuffed him and put a so-called spit hood over his head. The hoods are used to stop people from spitting on officers especially during pandemic but these hoods have also been criticized for making it hard to breathe police body camera. Video shows prude naked with the mesh hood over his head. He's seen asking for the officer's gun and then one officer pressing prude's face into the pavement for two minutes. Eventually he stops moving who died in the hospital a week later. His death was ruled. A homicide from suffocation fast forward to this week. New york's attorney general made it clear she was hoping for a different outcome and felt this was another unjustified killing. She says she and her office presented the strongest case possible to the grand jury but that they were not able to convince the jury. That officers committed a crime. The police officers lawyers argued their clients. Were strictly following their training that night and it seems the grand jury agreed in response. The prude family lawyer said the system failed daniel prude and specifically his brother is heartbroken. The officers are still suspended. And they'll stay only during the rest of an internal investigation. The justice department is also reviewing the case. Tiger woods was in a bad car crash but he said to be recovering. The golf superstar crashed his suv in a los angeles suburb yesterday. The car was so mangled firefighters had to pry open the windshield. Depaul woods out. Fortunately he was conscious and able to communicate with first responders but sources tell. Espn the crash crushed woods legs so we ended up with injuries. Like a compound leg fracture and a shattered ankle. He had to have surgery right away at this point. It's not clear what caused the crash. There were not any other vehicles involved and authorities say it doesn't seem like woods was impaired by alcohol or drugs. We also don't know how fast he was going but the good news is. He was wearing a seatbelt. The investigation is still going on and by the way was just coming off a recent back procedure so he was already taking a break from golf but he had planned to return later this year. After this crash though it's not clear yet when or if he'll be playing again covid nineteen vaccine makers say they're getting ready to send way more doses out to americans who are still waiting to get their shots. We're talking about twice as many doses as those companies are sending now so far about seventy five million doses have been shipped out but with pfizer and madonna executives. Tell congress there now expecting that number to jump to about two hundred and twenty million doses by the end of next month and that's not even counting third cove in nineteen vaccine. That could be on the way in the us as well. The fda is expected to authorize johnson and johnson single-dose vaccine very soon and that company says it should have enough for twenty million people by the end of march looking ahead to summer pfizer journal and johnson and johnson expect to have more than enough to vaccinate. Every american adult at this point about fourteen percent of americans have gotten at least one shot. Experts like dr anthony. Fauci have said the. Us will need to vaccinate seventy to eighty percent of the population for. We can really get back to normal. More news is coming up. But first thanks to our sponsor rockies have you heard about rockies yet. They have comfy chic shoes stylish bags in all sizes and washable masks. I've gotten two pairs of shoes from raf and it's just the beginning. Because now that have experienced the style and range of options the reliable comfort with no break in period required ever and rossi's greek customer service like free shipping and free returns on eligible items. I now know. I can trust this company and i love ordering from them. I'm still amazed that i could wear my roth. These flats right out of the box and they were comfortable from day one. I also really appreciate that rockies. Keep sustainability in mind all along the way today. They've transformed more than seventy million plastic water bottles into their beautiful shoes handbags and face masks. It's no wonder. Vogue has called rothesay quote personal obsession so check out all the amazing shoes bags and masks of right now at rossi's dot com slash newsworthy. That's rossi's our own. T. h. y. s. rockies dot com slash newsworthy. Again head to raf these dot com slash new today. Now back to the news. New federal data shows fewer. Americans are choosing to go to college. These days freshman enrollment dipped more than thirteen percent in the fall of two thousand twenty and overall undergraduate enrollment. Dropped almost three percent. That's the fastest decline in decades. So what's behind this well. Research from the federal bank of saint louis found students are opting to skip college because classes have largely gone and to put it frankly they just don't think virtual classes are worth the money. This shift is still pretty unique though. Usually enrollment goes up during a recession. When jobs are harder to come by many people may think diploma will give them more of an edge in the job market. But that's not happening this time around. So there is one bright spot for colleges graduate student. Enrollment is up more than three and a half percent analysts. Say that's likely because graduate programs are less about an on campus experience and they're usually focused more on independent research. America's largest protestant denomination is making a statement against lgbtq friendly churches. The southern baptist convention decided to expel one church in georgia and another in kentucky officially cutting ties with them for accepting homosexuality saying it goes against what their religion stands for. But the pastor of the georgia church says he does not regret being inclusive. He says it's the right thing to do. The new york times reports. Southern baptists have been increasingly divided in recent years over a range of cultural and political issues. The one leader said at their meeting the divisions mirror the differences in views. Nationwide news will be returning to facebook in australia. Remember in a controversial new facebook all news articles on its platform last week to push back against a proposed law in that country. The law would make big tech companies like google and facebook. Hey news outlets for their content. Nielsen data shows australia. News outlet saw a drop in users during facebook's news band so it seems the social network got its message across even though plenty of people were not happy about it either way spoke and the australian government have now made a deal. Both sides agreed to some changes in the proposed law. Essentially the law might not apply to facebook as long as the social network can make enough deals with publishers on its own so at the end of the day facebook is still supposed to pay for news content just on its own terms the keep in mind. This may inspire other countries to take similar action. Canada has already said it's planning to propose similar loss and countries like germany. France and finland have considered it as well the. Us postal service is getting a high tech makeover. It just unveiled its plans for a new generation of mail trucks and this is a big deal since the current ones are nearly thirty years old. Got a lot of money to run and maintain. The new trucks will look pretty familiar. Gobi white and have that trademark boxy shape with the usps logo on the side. But there are some key differences for starters. Some of them will be electric and they'll be bigger so they can hold more packages also have air conditioning. And new tech like cameras and systems help. Avoid crashes the first of the new trucks will roll out in twenty twenty three and in all the usps hopes to have between fifty thousand one hundred sixty five thousand new trucks over the next decade. And that's it for the main news today but now it's time for work wednesday when we break down one interesting career or work related news story every wednesday but first this episode is made possible. Thanks to ritual. Ritual is not your typical multivitamin. It's clean vegan. Friendly formula is made with key nutrients including vitamin d. Three to help fill gaps in the diet and informs. Your body can actually use. No shady extras allowed. That's why i started taking ritual vitamins months ago. Yep even if. I was not partnering with them. I would be taking these vitamins. I appreciate that the company is so upfront about exactly what goes in the vitamins. And why and i can take them with or without food with no issues. Rituals fresh tasting delayed release. Capsules are designed to dissolve later in less sensitive areas of the stomach. They're also convenient. They're delivered right to my door with free shipping each month. Of course you can start snooze or cancel your subscription anytime and get this if you don't love ritual within your first month the refund your first order plus right now. Ritual is offering the news listeners. Ten percent off during your first three months visit ritual dot com slash newsworthy. To start your ritual today. That's ritual dot com slash newsworthy. Now back to work wednesday and today we're talking about how blue collar jobs like jobs in construction and package. Delivery are booming right now for example on the job site indeed dot com there about twenty six percent more job openings for construction jobs now than there was a year ago and warehouse and delivery jobs are doing well too as more people buy online before the pandemic it reports say americans did about forty percent of their shopping online but a new survey found. Now it's more like sixty percent. In fact the wall street journal points out some blue collar. Companies are having a hard time finding enough workers to keep up with demand. Millions of people are actually not looking for work right now because they have more childcare responsibilities during the pandemic or they're worried about getting covid nineteen on the job but the communists expect demand for construction and ecommerce jobs to keep growing even after the pandemic although possibly at a slower pace they also say the service industry could get a boost soon as retail and restaurant jobs. Come back all right. Thank you so much for listening. Today you can read more about any of the new stories mentioned in the episode notes on newsworthy dot com. We'll catch you up on more news now tomorrow until then have a great day.