4 Episode results for "Farmer Miller"
Sucking the carbon out of the sky
"Support for this episode comes from indigo add. Indigo is bringing together. A growing community of leading companies committed to activating agriculture to address the climate crisis in partnership with innovative businesses farmer scientific partners and informed advocates. We can reimagine agriculture for the benefit of people and the planet here from new belgium brewing. On why community outreach is crucial and supporting farming as a nature based climate solutions learn more at indigo ag dot com slash future perfect. I'm elisa barkley boxes science health and climate editor. This april our podcasts. Are teaming up to cover some of the most important issues threatening life on earth from sustainability to biodiversity two straight up cool things about the natural world will focus on our planet and its limits in episodes throughout the month tune in to today explained box conversations the weeds unexplainable worldly your perfect and box. Quick hits wanna listen to all the shows find that box dot com slash earth month. Welcome to future perfect. My name is don matthews. Global warming is everyone knows is caused by humans pumping hundreds of billions of tons of greenhouse gases into the atmosphere. So in some ways the simplest way to fix it would be to do the reverse pull carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases out of the atmosphere. Treat do this of course but not really enough to stem the problem. That's what carbon capture technologies. Come in these plans. Which range from capturing carbon as it's produced at power plants to pulling directly out of the sky look like he'll be an incredibly important part of the world's strategy for preventing the worst aftershocks climate. Change shot rathi is a climate reporter at bloomberg and he's also a scientist heels a doctorate in chemistry from oxford more than just about anyone about the world of carbon capture so we caught up with him at his flat in london to see how these technologies work but their pitfalls are and why one recent company trying to carve out of the air fell flat. I i've thanks for coming on the show. It's great to be here. So let's let's start with some of the basics. There are a bunch of different technologies that that try to capture co two and and keep it from getting into the atmosphere or ticket out of the atmosphere. Can you walk me through. What the main strategies are there and how they differ from each other. Yeah i think we should. I talked with perhaps different cheating. Two types of technologies one is just carbon capture which is capturing emissions as they come out from say a power plant or industry and that is something we've been doing for five decades at least and then there's a whole new glass of technologies are an ideas not just technology. Is there some of these are essentially big science experiments and so those are a new set of technologies and techniques that are coming up to capture governed directly from the air within the group of ideas techniques and technologies that can capture carbon dioxide from the air. You can close them as what many people call nature based one of the most common one of course which people understand instinctively is trees and so you can plant lots and lots of trees you can also try and avoid deforestation that also helps keep carbon dioxide in the ground but also sometimes help increase the amount of carbon dioxide that on deforested area would store over the long term then there are things that seem a little bizarre but work so there is an idea of crushing minerals. These are special types of minerals that You know are plentiful around the planet and when you crush them you expose The the chemistry to carbon dioxide and there is an affinity carbon dioxide has to those minerals and you accelerate the process which would have happened naturally over millions and millions of years to happen over five ten twenty years time and once the skull index has reacted with these minerals It's sequestered for good. Another idea is Is a is director capture which is essentially a fancy tree so you build large air-filters to Carbon dioxide which makes up only point four percent of the atmosphere and then once you've separated the carbon dioxide you typically compress it and make it liquid or more call critical fluid and then you pump it deep underground probably in places like depleted oil and gas Vols where again it can stay there for millennia At a time so those are largely the the ideas. There are a few others. And it's not as i would be called are probably to be told that that's still not exhaustive that there are still not the ideas out there to capture carbon dioxide from the air for sure. But it's it's a lot to dig into So let's start with the first one. You mentioned Carbon capture at source so at at natural gas or coal plants. You're you're burning these dirty fuels and capturing the carbon as it's released rather than out of the atmosphere it's pretty small share of the gases. Were offloading around in. How well do this work I sometimes here Criticisms from environmentalists that this is is just kind of greenwashing that this is Not really effective meant to make coal and natural gas. Look like they could clean when they can't be served. How how much should we believe. In those kinds of technologies from bill physics and chemistry standpoint. it works and we know it works. And it's been working for five decades as i said and the idea is actually really rather simple so say and let's let's also ensure that this is not just about coal power plants natural gas pipelines. This idea is likely going to be absolutely necessary in the cement industry for example because cement even if you don't use any fossil fuels. The production of cement produces carbon dioxide just because the chemistry of using limestone as a starting material. But yeah i mean the idea goes back to very basic high school lessons that we've probably all done at some point. You take a a mixture of a base a it's sodium hydroxide potassium hydroxide. And you take a straw and you breathe through that straw into that solution and what you'll start to see is that clear solution becomes cloudy and then you're told by our teacher. What you've just done is converted. Sodium hydroxide which is the base induce sodium bicarbonate or sodium carbonate. Which is another base. But is less soluble in water. And so you see this mixture. You see a change in color and the idea is carbon. Dioxide is slightly acidic. If you mix with the base it will trap it. It'll make a compound which will remove it from whatever mixture from and chemically transform. It into something else. And that's the idea that oil and gas industry has used since the seventy s you do actually find carbon dioxide in these wells you separate the carbon dioxide from natural gas and then you pump it back into the ground and you do it because it allows oil and gas companies to increase the yield of oil and gas that they get from these wells and so that's why we can be sure that it works because they have been using it and have been using it for profitable purposes for quite some time and is there like enough demands for for things like Drilling for oil or or other uses of carbon dioxide To scale that up if you look at all the co two that's being emitted through things like cement plants as you mentioned or power plants. Is it a situation where like some small minority of that. Co two could be put to useful purposes or or is this serve a really big industry that could take up a big share of it so no it doesn't have that much capacity. You might be able to scale this up from you. Know as i said forty sixty or eighty million tons a year to maybe ten times as much. Maybe but that's not the reason why there are some people who pursue enhanced recovery as a rule do scaling-up carbon capture. The reason they do it is because carbon dioxide doesn't have a price in most of the world and better does have a price. It's quite a week a few dollars a ton or maybe a few tens of dollars a ton Which is not enough for your carbon capture process to be profitable just on its own. Do not have an extra source of revenue and doing enhanced recovery. Which does end up starting. That's the two in the oil. Reservoir is a way for you to have a revenue source you can think of. It does the bridge to making carbon capture a slightly bigger deal than it is so that when you scale up its price falls and maybe that would be a way to make it economical eventually to not have to use it with oil recovery at all. I wanna stay on on enhanced oil recovery of bits. You've written a lot on this. You wrote a lot about one of the first places that was used. Am curious how this cashes out on climate perspective. Since on the one hand you're taking That would otherwise be in the atmosphere and using it for this purpose under other hand. You're drilling oil Oil is also fuel And and i think. I always have an intuitive aversion to to a pulling more more oil out Someone who's thought about this really carefully. How does that cash out for the climate on net as carbon neutral slightly positive slightly negative. I think your instinct is right in one of the things that you need to do to tackle. Climate change is to try and reduce a use of fossil fuels and then be extraction of fossil fuels and so connecting a climate technology to extract. More fossil fuels just feels wrong even if it you know on a very mathematical basis might not be again a little bit of history might help one reason why climate and enhanced oil recovery or like removing dockside and connecting it to enhanced recovery even became a thing was in the early two thousands Natural gas was quite expensive. The shale gas revolution hadn't happened And there was an assumption. That cole will have a much longer life than now. Two decades later we can see it may not and if goal has a much longer life you know in your to thousands of view you would want to find ways to do away with that carbon dioxide and then has dried company at that time seemed like the to follow now. What has happened is people in the carbon capture field have recognize that doesn't make for good optics to connect yourself to an asteroid recovery and be. There is enough political in that you may actually be able to do it without having to connect yourself to oil. So a lot of the captured advocates have moved on from connecting either to a coal power plant or to enhanced recovery And lincoln more to industry bear. We know that cutting carbon dioxide is a much harder problem than it is in other sectors. One thing you've emphasized is we really need a way to take some of the co two in. Put it inside the earth in a place where it won't get back out to the atmosphere so oil extraction seems like an obvious use case for that where we're digging deep into the earth and so you already have access to a place to put all this carbon that that were playing from the atmosphere. Appoint from plants. Where some other means and what are some of the solutions for taking carbon and pleading deep into the earth. That people working on this problem have come up with a very good question. It's something that a lot of people are probably have misconceptions about so the first misconception is to think of oil and gas as actual wells underground you might imagine like weird shaped natural shaped tank of oil that you put a strain and you extract the oil but that's not how it works deep underground the oil that you find israeli trapped in these small pores inside rocks so what happens when you store. Carbon dioxide in an oil and gas out as the war depleted one is essentially you convert carbon dioxide into a liquid. And then you just pump that liquid into these pores that have been voided because you've extracted the oil and gas from it. That type of poor formation exists in other places there. There's something called Selling aquifers which are essentially like oil and gas valves but instead of having orlan gas in them they just have salt water in them. And so you can inject carbon dioxide in those places displacing some of the salty water There are also places like iceland a type of rocker assault and But salt has the capacity of actually reacting with carbon dioxide. So it's also a forest rock. You can do what you do with a normal carbon dioxide injection but instead of it being stored as liquid in those pores it actually reacts the basaltic rock and becomes rock in two years. Time if you drill down into the same place where you injected carbon dioxide. What you get back is pure rock. And so those are the three main types of places where you can inject carbon dioxide into the ground and we actually have enough place underground on the planet to put away all the carbon dioxide that we've ever released burning fossil fuels and so we don't need to worry about running out of that space anytime soon. What we may need to worry about is the geographical distribution of those types of geology. And they're not evenly distributed Some places like the us are endowed with having those places to sink. Cab nex didn't do And then there are places where you don't so we might have to figure out transporting carbon dioxide to places where there are six available But i think we are very far from that challenge. Today we know be of nowhere close to running out of places to sink gobsmack sidon so i want to back up a second to the one of the first technologies. You mentioned a few minutes ago which is trees trees as we. We all remember for middle school. Take co two in push oxygen out and there's been a lot of efforts of round planting more trees. The trump administration had this trillion trees initiative white. Why can't that be the bulk of the solution If you have this ancient technology that can pull. Co two out. Why is there so much interest in in more advanced technologies when when we have that in it works this is something you know advocates who are researchers in the field who understand exactly how this works themselves except that trees on going to be the only solution we can pursue and the reason is. Let's take a truly entry plan. The amount of land that you're going to need to plan the strawberries. is is likely size of india. And sometimes people say you have to you know Trillion trees three entries because that's the loss that humans have brought to this planet. Then you're looking at The size of china in planting trees. We just don't have that much land and that feels are to say. Humans are increasingly occupying more densely populated city regions. And and. maybe you know opening up spaces on the rest of the planet but we do use a lot of land for agriculture. So if you start planting trees just for carbon purposes what it does is it brings you into land and people conflict very quickly. Most of the people who are talking about planting trees solution are rich countries. They don't typically have that much land in the us. Us's probably endowed with a lot of land but take europe. A rich region doesn't have that much land and so you will get into this risk of green colonialism and it's already starting to happen in one of the stories that A few reporters from bloomberg wrote about last year. A forest in south america is being protected for carbon offsets for companies like disney and. There is land conflict happening there just because somebody's paying for those couple offsets so that's one reason. The second reason is most tree-planting programs are pretty poorly run. So the goal is in incentive system is to store carbon the fastest rate a store carbon is typically to plant fast growing trees. There are one or two or three species depending on the that you are in that tend to be the fast growing species. And if you just do monocultures you may store carbon in the short term but in the long term it doesn't cocktail it kills the biodiversity in that region. Those forests become very vulnerable to pass or two fires and carbon. Dioxide is a is a multi hundred year problem. So you can just lie on it. Being stored for ten or twenty or even fifty years and being released into the atmosphere and then a defining part is in. We talk about carbon removal and forest. Become these cheap offsets that you can buy for few dollars a ton and then you have those few dollars a tonne even if they may or may not work because you can buy them You as a company or a as an individual feel like it's the license to keep polluting in other places so you may not do the hard work of actually cutting emissions unit just by offsets because in your carbon accounting system. It just works out in your favor going to lump together if you technologies that you mentioned a few minutes ago. What those all seem to have in common to me as a layperson is. Is that lake trees. You're trappings To a place where you can't really use it it's not like if you're capturing it at a cement plant and then you have all the year two in canisters you can use for things. How do those kinds of technologies compare to trees and how viable do. They seem someone who covers this industry. What we do know is increasing. Carbon soil is just good for agriculture. Good for productivity for the line for the the crops that are grown from there the difficulty there to some extent just like the trees is verifying and ensuring that the carbon that get stored stays there for a long enough time and we just have not done the experiments to the extend. We need to to be scientifically Be certain that the carbon dioxide is being stored so let's take the example of crushed minerals on agricultural soil. There are currently experiments being run in a few parts of the world. Australia the uk and a few other countries. Where what you do is take these crush. Monroe's you spread it around on agricultural land and then you measure typically when you add these minerals the the acidity of the soil falls and you make an estimate on how much carbon is being stored and those experiments take a long period of time. So do you have enough time to wait till we get the results on those experiments to be one hundred percent certain it works probably not because once you've done it in the uk you'll have to do it and other types of styles around the world you'd have to repeat those experiments multiple times to be sure that this technology works. So that's the that's the main problem with storing carbon in soils. It's an idea that others are attempting to scale But there are real big scientific holes in it currently so we're gonna take a quick break but when we come back we're going to talk about. Direct air capture a climate technology. That seems a lot of excitement and investments rounding it indigo is proud to partner with new belgium. Brewing who's fat tire amber ale is the. Us's first certified carbon neutral beer. Sustainability director katy wallace shares. How they support. Farmers communities through the indigo carbon program belgian is being carbon neutral by tiny thirty. We used assets to find farmers doing works to reduce carbon farming. We really wanted to invest back into our supply chain and with our farmers they're growing barley and haas especially the attorney agricultural community. New belgium is established a multi year carbon credit partnership with indigo which provides a path for companies to support farmers. Adopting beneficial farming practices that draw down atmospheric carbon reduce emissions and build a more sustainable future into angrily makes possible is a market mechanism. That can support this effort financially in really enable farming community to these are the greatest heroes in the tuesday voice planet the last in in some ways the sexiest or at least the one. The press loves the most of of these technologies which is direct air capture. Walk me through with is how it works in a why it it seems to have so much energy in vestment behind it. Sadaqa captured is sort of a child of the conventional carbon capture technology. What it does is instead of filtering. Say the gases coming out from a power plant. Director capture filters the air and air has only point four percent four hundred parts per million Carbon dioxide in it. So one may that. I've found people understand. This problem easily is to imagine in front a few a bathtub. Full of eminem's all the eminence and there are blue colored and your goal is to find the red colored eminem's which are four hundred in the ten four thousand in the ten million eminem's in that top. It's just a energy intensive process if you go through each of your eminem's to get to the the red ones and that's what happens when you're filtering air union to filter lot of air to ensure that the little bit of carbon dioxide that is the problem causing climate change gets trapped for the longest time people taught that process is so energy intensive that you're never going to be able to make it economically viable. What has happened since is a number of ideas together where instead of using conventional carbon capture. You use a liquid base and you bring it in contact with connects from a flue. Gas use obeys that is connected to a solid and you can then reduce the amount of energy spent in filtering the air and could bring the cost down according to some butte studies to as little as one hundred dollars per tonne and suddenly that price allows you to make the technology commercially viable vithout having to do anything with the gas industry And that separation from the oil and gas industry is clearly one. That many environmentalists like but also many investors like because then you're betting on an industry that has not connected to a dying industry and you're betting on a growing industry in that i think is one of the reasons why the capture has found so much interest among among investors. Let's talk a little bit about what. What the carbon. That's been captured out of the air could be used for. I imagine this is somewhat similar to the in. That's been being taken directly from sources like cement plants or power plants. We've talked a little bit about enhanced oil recovery. What are some of the other things you could use that That carbon tatum. Either out of the atmosphere or out of a plant for there are few ideas floating around. They haven't yet reached scale so one popular is of course sodas you can take that govern. Put it into sodas of course much of that. Carbon dioxide is put back into the atmosphere. So what you're doing is not sequestering it. you're just recycling. It does the same thing that will happen if you make synthetic fuels from it so instant extracting oil from the ground You takes yo- do which is carbon mixed with oxygen separate oxygen out and you add hydrogen on top of it and you create essentially synthetic oil and That's one way in which you could ensure for example that planes continue to have fuelled without having to rely on fossil fuels by just making synthetic fuels but again. The process is only recycling carbon. Because eventually that fuel will get burned will go back into the atmosphere. There are some more speculative ideas like converting carbon dioxide into carbon fiber which is Material that you can use for lots and lots of things from construction material to high grade materials using the cars our cycles or even for furniture in in houses but that process is currently quite expensive. And there is no guaranteed will become any cheaper so at some point you about even if you make all of these applications economically viable democracy to that we need to draw down is so immense that eventually if you are going to use this as a climate solution you just have to buddy a deep underground and that's something that we just have to face If you're going to use governor move will technologies you kind of touched on this there. But whenever i read about direct air capture in particular some of these cases you mentioned bodily and sodas carbon engineering which is one of the big firms. Doing this talks a lot about making synthetic fuel seat take co two from the atmosphere. And you turn it into jet fuel or something they. They seem like at best. They're kind of carbon neutral. I'm drinking a diet coke right now. It has to in it. When i when i opened the can allow that to win out and is not being sequestered anywhere safe. How can be make those use cases carbon negative or can we make those kinds of use cases carbon negative. i don't think we can make them carbon negative. Because you know. If you're going to mean as i said does one way to make it. Carbon negative is is to put them in materials that fills that not leak the carbon back so if you put it in carbon fibers for example it may have a natural life of hundreds of years before it it degrades back into the atmosphere Or even plastics could use comdex to make synthetic blood Which a few companies make today At very small scales And then they remain trapped away but of course we know plastics of their own problem for the environment. So do you want to take on that challenge. But yeah i think in most use cases. You're right that the carbon is being recycled rather rather than being stored Back into the atmosphere companies like carbon engineering are using the synthetic fuel option just as coal power. Plants were using oil recovery as an option in the short term. That's where the demand is places like california are ready to pay the premium to by synthetic fuels made from data capture. So why not use that revenue stream to to make this process so cheap that eventually just a carbon price will be enough for the technology to scale up a lot of these use cases that we've talked about whether that's making synthetic fuels are drilling for oil. It is a lot of demand for kind of traditional carbon-intensive and one thing that's happening as we're having this discussion is. There's a huge. Push to switch to electric cars from policymakers but also from auto makers were a few weeks after. Volkswagen jokingly announced that they were gonna be called volkswagen which was very silly but also indicative of like a real shift that's happening in the auto industry toward away from internal combustion engines. So how much future do these technologies have when the kinds of engines and the kinds of fossil fuel infrastructure That they might be suited for for already kind of moving away from. But i think what we tend to forget is that even though electric fixation of transport is Now a complete reality and most of the large automakers are completely focused on the stock of vehicles. That exists is so vast That the internal combustion engine isn't going to die out in the next two years. A very good example is to just look at norway. So are we now sell something. Like seventy percent of all their vehicles as electric by twenty twenty. Five hundred percent of their goals will be electric stock. The total number of vehicles in norway is still ninety percent fossil fuel based so the decline in oil consumption is not even ten percent because you know trucks and lorries and buses tend to still use oil intend to use a lot more oil but kilometer Car would so. That reduction is is closer to five or six or seven percent Over the period in which nari has begun its electric transformation and so synthetic fuels will have a longer life and even beyond road transport v know for example that long haul flights just do not make themselves viable on a vape purely physics standpoint for actually electrification you might get hydrogen planes which you could make from clean sources by. There is a very good chance that we will have long flights. That just need a drop in replacement feel for fossil fuels and that could be synthetic fields. So if you have betting on synthetic fuels you probably have a longer life than betting on enhanced oil recovery for example. So it's not a bad bet to make you recently. Did a big investigation with one of your colleagues at bloomberg on a direct air capture for global thermostat. And it's it's a really kind of wild twisty story. I'm i'm hoping you can walk through it in and also say a bit about what reporting that in learning about this company is taught you about the industry as a hole in some of the challenges. It's going to be running into as it tries to scale up and become a big part of of our approach to climate change. It was really fun but also taxing exercise to uncover some of the mismanagement and poor decision. Making that happened inside. The data capture stop. My colleague lesley kaufman and i worked on it For over the past year. Or so. I think one way to think about this is so far in climate startups have been fighting for you and they have mostly received good press because they are far and few and we need a lot more of them and isn't it great that at least some of them are being able to get the money that they need to build technologies. That will help us fight climate change. What's happening now is that money is really growing very rapidly. So there was a recent from price waterhouse cooper that found the investments in climate. Tek have gone from four hundred million dollars per year in two thousand thirteen to sixteen billion dollars per year in two thousand nine hundred and it's accelerating a lot more because of what's happening on wall street with a special acquisition companies and very where you have money going there will be people who will try to game the system and trying to make money where you can't make money and so it's quite important feel like now that climate technologies Startups have reached a level of importance in investment that journalists take more critical look at whether companies actually doing what they promise now indicates global thermostat. We got tips about The founder being disruptive of the company and stopping people who within the company wanted to actually scale up that technology from being able to scale up that technology and those anecdotes also chimed with the progress that we could see data capture companies. Were making so in about the two thousand nine thousand ten peter. Three companies launched Those global thermostat which is a us based company. That's carbon engineering. Which is a canadian company but has You know the science comes from harvard professor and then climb which is a swiss company and all three of them started working on building garrick after technology. And what we've seen is that carbon engineering and climb books have built pilot plants and are are scaling up the technology in multiple ways but global thomas status kind of stagnated and so that those two things when they came together is when we started looking at it more closely and we did find that you know. Those anecdotes were true having spoken to Lots and lots of people both former and current employees but also investors and interested. Investors done their due diligence on the company so a lot of the future of of all these industries seems like it depends really heavily on on government policy. You you mentioned that in the story on global thermostat but the us has a tax credit for for carbon removal. And there's there's been some pushes for for more more subsidies. There wasn't you the landscape as it sits now as it looks like. It's it's to sit in the future As we're speaking in the us. Joe biden has been been pushing a big infrastructure package. That's a very heavily oriented around Responding to climate change. How much support do you expect this industry to to get going forward from the us uk other governments around the world. It's very good question. And i think policy as you know in his lots of people know is going to be absolutely crucial in bringing a climate technologies to scale primarily because there is no carbon price in so You know your cleaner. Technologies can't compete on a level playing field with Fossil fuel based products. But also the peace at which we are looking to scale. These ideas is just much faster than would have happened it. If it was a period where there was no wasn't climate. Emergency are you. Just let the market you choose. The best of the technologies and support policy is crucial. I will also say that in some way the. Us has been far ahead on policy but has not used that leadership position to its full advantage. So a very good example is does zero emissions vehicle program. That was started in california. You know of course that helped companies like tesla tomatoes silicon valley and become these giant but on the whole the rest of america did not follow through on taking the lead from california instead. That policy has now been replicated in china and in some form in europe and both those regions have implemented them and ran with it to the point where now we know that most of your electric are sold. Annually are sold in china and only last year. Europe has become the leader and the us. You know a middling player. You can say the same thing with philip panels for example. A lot of the research that went into creating solar panels happened in the us but scaling up happened in germany and then china and the us wasn't able to really get the gains of having industries and employment and jobs within the country from all the investments at had made carbon capture is one area where the. us has actually managed to keep its leadership position so unlike all the other technologies we've talked about carbon capture started off its life as a purely profit-driven orlan gas industry initiative. Then they were to read governments to build a network of co two pipelines. The us has the largest network of co two pipelines in the world that makes transporting governor had cheap and does allows you to build carbon capture facilities at a much cheaper cost than you would have to if you billingham them them in europe or in china and today if you look at the total amount of co two captured in the world the us does the bulk of the capture. But you know now that we're doing it for climate and because the us doesn't have a national carbon price in capturing carbon dioxide just for the sake of it is still not viable which is why instruments like the forty five us tax credit has been vital for this industry. A number of projects are completely tied to getting this sort of fifty dollars a ton of tax credit in lieu of capturing kaban To make their projects profitable and i think we're going to need that for quite some time till there is a at least an implicit if not an explicit carbon price on these products. So so another concern. I hear from environmentalists. Uncover removal is Serve a moral hazard concerned. So it's a way to to address climate change without doing the work to reduce our emissions from electricity and transportation and other things and there's some things perception that it's like a cheap solution or or a fast way around those kind of hard transitions. How true is that. How how much is this a way to avoid making hard emissions reductions versus another tool in the toolkit if you come to this problem on new. It's a fair concern to have you know we are pumping out forty billion tons of do every year and on the other hand. These carbon capture technologies are capturing forty million tons so as then point one percent You know dedicated capture doesn't even capture a tens of thousands of tons of hundreds of thousands of tons annually. Right now and so environmentalists argue. Well it's a dangerous distraction because you feel like there is the option do have technology that will magically put all the co two away. Then why should we body about cutting emissions in the near term but if you think a little more carefully for a little more time you'll realize that those worries are unfounded because vr so late in the game right now. We'd need pretty much. Every lever possible being used to its fullest extent but just to say every economic sector needs to cut emissions and at the same time. We need scale carbon technologies. That's how urgent the situation is that you can't do an either or right now. Essentially pretty much. Every climate solution is an end problem. Today you want this and that and that and that. If you're going to have to solve tackling the emissions problem. I think this is. This is a really good intro for people knew the topic. I'm sorry if some of the material was pretty basic free for you know. Absolutely i think it say no. I've been reading about this for five years now and it's still like a challenge to to make sure people know what what the says And you know because you don't see it right. You see solar panels even to binds. You'll see electric cars but you don't see you know. Very few people have seen a coal power plant in their life. They've probably driven past one. Nobody's gone inside one You probably can't tell from the outside whether something's steel factory a cement factory People just don't have an understanding of the physical economy in the way we need actually to be should tackle this problem except thank you so much for for coming on the show. It was a lot of fun. I hope we can do this again me too. I'm doing math. Use this feature perfect. This episode was produced by sophie. Lonzo editors can you torella learn more at. Vox dot com slash future. Perfect The indigo carbon program brings together companies. That believe in the transformative power of agriculture it enables farm innovation that can improve soil health increase carbon sequestration and create greater profitability. Potential iowa farmer miller says to his you know definitely my golden beginning but it's really opened up to all his other benefits. I never expected learn more at indigo ag dot com slash future perfect.
The War Room: A RB, TE and an LB walk into a bar
"And support for this episode comes from nerdwallet. Got money goals nerve all. It's got your back looking for a credit card with better cashback. Nerdwallet scott tons of tools and tips to help you find the car. You're looking for finally ready to buy your first home. Nerdwallet has calculators to help you find a mortgage that works for you and if you want your money to work as hard as you do nerdwallet scott side by side. Comparisons to help you find the smartest investing count. Whatever your money goes may be nerdwallet helps you compare and find the smartest financial products for you analyst. One six one seven five three nine. It's still fans welcomes. These wakes steel warning. I'm your host weekly. Show that heavily. The shari that puts you in the shoes of kevin call. Mike tomlin alcon h wake every week we talk. All things stills rasta seals still salary cap and of course the nfl draw which is just a couple of weeks away. This week's episode. The title is an l. bay. They anna tae walk into the room. So what does that mean. So look as always have a quick look at the roster. And i'm going to go through the roster what that looks like for the pittsburgh steelers these wake but when we come into pot through the show on the three players today Three potential options for the pittsburgh steelers three plays the won't be taken in the third round. They may not even be taken in the second round But looking forward to crack them. Because we're getting closer to the draft in really. That's where everyone's attention to free agency settling down as always really important to As that obviously. I record in the future on strategy. Why record wednesday night. My time Disclose live to a sanatorium wins. Wednesday afternoon early evening In the united states so one of the biggest news. I guess they're lost twenty four hours Is the signing of tim. Pittsburgh steelers was the signing of james conner to the arizona. Cardinals there So he saw a signed a deal there. He's obviously in pittsburgh for four years now Oversee he was that he was a big panthou. I think with james conner whilst you made a pro bowl with the steelers. I think it's very bad. So james corner that the steelers didn't necessarily get the best out of them And that was birthday. She chewed escape. I would suggest and then Very much iran injuries before that. So you know that's interesting is they. I believe the deal is signed so far. It's not over the cap just yet. It may be toma go to f but the deal he signed was he was one point. Two five million on with a five hundred thousand dollar rosta barna sewn on top of that so you get one point five million with five hundred thousand signing burners so look good luck james conner You know wish him. All the best you know steelers fan. I think can have a great day. It just may when the right him play his move on in his rookie deliveries expired. So looking across the pittsburgh steelers. Obviously i've talked at length about the different About the the draw peaks costing gtri the eight million dollars she Through full signing Tame cap space right now coordinator the cap ten million dollars. That's fifty one. Plays the fifty three. And that's what you get the displacement Obviously they're going to this season. Seventeen games we've now got the fifty five plays so know people wants to be salary cap comply by then the steelers contracted players according to over the cap is currently. It's seventy two seventy two plays there There's not being too many more. Sonny's in the loss waco so obviously you had the wide receiver. Matt sexton is run like four three four four numbers Know coming to the tain nair thing tall siemens was the other one that we saw in the lost. Waken hof two weeks Descartes the main people that we've sort of saying and then was also the signing him to defensive end anderson as well so you know. He joins the tame dinner but these guys are roster bodies. These guys guys That you know you can really expect to potentially may that night pain When we start during final cuts in practice squad summations. They're the only thing. I wanted to quickly look out as well as a couple of key. Free agents did this loss wake In some cape positions there are still a number free agents on the board. And and i thought it was really important that we sort of look at a couple of those k- free agents again. Look at the corner. Backroom guys like a j boy. Casey heywood richard sherman steven nelson. Who obviously we go He's still available. Josh norman boston's skyline brian. Poe jason mccourty bershad brain drive said before could be an interesting cheaper option. Guys like nicole roy. Be kalman Drake heck patrick jonathan. Jonathan joseph dare as well There's some of the ba- games That are currently available at the quarterback position. And it's really important just to think about that for a second because the steelers could very well drop cornerback in these draft. A water fans knows about that being a first round. I realized asante samuel junior. He's probably a top sixty pico. Most people's draft boards You know i was showing. My co host is still touchdown under a few weeks gamache davison showing some highlights of asante samuel geniune oviously watching the holiday. So you with with the good comes the bad as well but he was like who is this guy. Said he's not particularly draw guy. Seems like ninety y showing me this fall in love with these player. We know davis suggest that you don't want to do that Despite a lot of my colleagues really falling in love with zaven collins for the peak at number twenty four. But i just that's just one position to keep him on that cornerback position because it's the steelers get some unlike its development to don't be dismayed there's plenty of guys left out there At that that that cornerback position the other one. I wanted to sort of go through as well. Some of the titans is and you know them. Of course you can change and over. The cap can be a little bit conscious of putting things up sometimes. Even deals Agreed in principle the gaza jesse james steals player. Still available Tall i still available. Jason witten There but i think he's actually retiring. Darren fells i believe is yet to be signed by the texans micro pruitt who. I know that Michael beck was really kane on the steelers bring in. He's to available jordan rates. Still out there too. And there's a bunch of tribeca and nothing is out there but that just gives you a bit of an understanding of some of the guys there in terms of the tight end position That is still available on the edge side. Ed shot if things in adobe depends then you're talking about skein there's being rumors the j. j. Avian clan he's looking at the interview. These about assault visited the browns. The ravens colts apparently auburn interested. In to melvin. Ingram ryan kennedy justin houston evan and then griffin alex okafor for Yuna ezekiel and saw He's getting on owning his years now. Jabballah she All all failing coleman Nfl names that is still available. So again steals. Don't necessarily you draw if someone on the edge they still guys that are available depressingly working at the position. They're be names. He would've been too for agents in the pouncey brothers. Obviously we know they were tied at the same time. Austin rate is still available. He's probably the best the best. You've got available right now unless you're going to look at a russell bodine and it just makes you think steals nature. Bring someone in whether it's a try hill in round fool whether it's a crate humphrey in round two. If he falls that light if it's landed dickerson. I think interestingly to watch different position bit at the quarterback position caleb failures dropping significantly with the two back surgeries not doing the testing and he's pro day a thought the same is happening to landon dickerson. I was presented with him on. Done several mock drafts this week Destroy all my commute to the workplace. And i've noticed quite clearly landed dixon with some of the algorithms on different websites. Starting to drop. And i think that's gonna be really interesting choice steals because he suddenly be valuable to make constantly in the second round. Pick him at fifty five because if he comes off that's first round talent. It's the injury concerns of the problem when we look at the center. Position of fury agency currently available. There's not a lot of talent. And it's i know that we've been talking about this at length across bay content this off season. But it's one to think about equally a guy like in round three shannon. What the loss. Twenty four hours. As i recall these. We lost forty eight hours for most listeners. Put up a great article on behind still couldn't comb about queen meneres funnily enough you're why covid The loss wake on the on the show As a center option for the steelers in the in the third round maybe even drops the fourth. But you do trade back into the two grabbing their if he's sitting there he's a forty four on daniel jeremiah's took fifty prospects so said last week he's think number eighty seven on drf networks list of top one hundred so you definitely someone to watch and then nothing just to cap it off. Is the left tackle position so you obviously there we. You're the draft. He's way we looking ahead. At the moment russell comb eric. Fischl l. hundred villanueva jason pages. I think is also tied. cameron fleming all still available bear. Now that's not too many names but we now starting to crack on intimidated the prototype the free agency draft period. I mean eric fisher. What have you got to lose by potentially bringing Don't give a signing bonus. What have you you know Again on one hundred villanueva. Can we keep him with. Ben coming back in and juju coming back into castro still there. You know banner as well you know. He he's played a little bit alongside yeltsin Do you shift to castro over to the left side. And there's some philly betas pod costa's is and ride. Is that occasional not all. I mentioned that too. I think what donaldson play is used to Deputy castro is going be more versatile. Bit more of a veteran there No i think he can play across line. It could be really interesting if we have them on. The left side just wanted to think about but look that wraps up hot one of the show as a set of three on one. I wanna covering in pot two am in. I constantly breaking my thirty my thirty minute limit each week. Would they really want to get into those couple of plays. So we're going to run the break a little bit early but stay tuned as i said i'm covering the ave the l. bay and the tae the walk into a room. The ave trason the will be john bates in the later rounds and lbj backroom camp. it's still fans. Welcome back to steal warren on not careful you'll host of this this weekly show leading up into this. nfl draft. It's taking through the steelers off season. You know we've talked everything about cap and free agency and signings and now we move into the draft went talking prospects. So let's kick it off with the highest grade prospective on the draft right. Now it's coming out of a higher state six foot choice hundred fifteen pounds sena prospect rights. Six point two which means it on on nf according to nfl dot coms fall back gives him. You know the status of a good backup who could become a starter. A puts him right on that edge there of being star within first two seasons. You know we know guys need to get opportunities you back and look at similar. Running backs have done. Well i mean you know. James robinson who had a standout youth the jacksonville jaguars. They wouldn't have been at six point. Two on the on these lists so let's not Rosner get sucked into that Into that great dad but just assure that he's being rated fairly highly. It's funny with these lost name to a soldier. Funny factories buyer Yes he's lost named sermon But he has trust tattered on one boss sip in linked on the other so bit of a fun fact out there steelers fans. He's at the scene as a top one hundred over over kirk nationally from the georgia Dismissed illing became an immediate contributer. Starting three or four games that phasing one hundred and twenty one carries seven hundred forty four yards six point one yards per. Carry five days sixteen receptions for one hundred and thirty nine yards apron seven average two touchdowns in two thousand eighteen. He started twelve of fourteen. Gains garnering honorable mentioned phone will be twelve and the same with rushing touchdowns of one hundred sixty four carries for phenomena jr and forty seven yards at five point. Eight per carry twelve receptions and eighty one yards fifteen point one averages injuries limiting twenty teen. We're only had non stotts. Sorry he played in non gangs with full stotts. Fifty four carries three hundred ninety five yards seven point one yards per carry. So you can still say. He's he's carrying averages. Almost the highest. They're often limited carries four touchdowns receptions seventy one yards eight. Point one average one receiving touchdown. You're in so that was interesting from that perspective. In twenty twenty. He came on strong at the end of the year rushing for three hundred thirty one yards in the big ten championship game. In one hundred ninety three yards in the college football playoff semifinal. Against clemson where he will set for receptions for sixty one yards unfortunately any carried once in the national title game before shoulder. Injury sidelined him. He went to the saying ball but was not able to participate in practices Look i think fans of i hearing that sort of feedback will be like lying on the post game. We like to us. We know the success. The ben had with levy on bell even james on receiving there unless sort of caught up in that. Because i feel like we need songs receptions he can do things. i think. It's about scheming him. I think we need a bruiser at that running back position unless worried about that right now and given the guys like anthony mink falling given the guys like john jalen. Samuels in the backroom there. Even benny snell this. We can spread some lloyd here as well couldn't nfl. Jim view great-looking running back. He can suffer from bit inconsistency in creative cray tuning decisiveness. The regular season type are high. State was a little bit disappointing compared to the talent show to oklahoma but he's monster. Pisces should call some concerns at birth goals interior vision decision making decision-making suspect in with running into some traffic He does have potential downsides. I'm back raise more time space to utilize his skills. He's got size open-field. Spain will step up and handle his business. Imposs- protection that's what we love his steelers fans play as the composite block As well as catch it out of the backfield. So that was were saying limited receptions analysts is saying yes he can still catch things out of the backfield so t skills arana can be average his potentials of three down backup with outside could create middle rounding trysts. I think he's sitting there at the third or fourth round. But we'll continue to go through the prospect Strengths he's got ideal. Nfl frame tikal harmer's more indicative in game game out potential adequate ben and cut when he's on the move good acceleration and change direction. I feel like he can see that on type when he gets through lines strides with power and drive once he opens it up. Finishes with a forceful. Denial has ability to put together as outside zone. Run capable pause. Catcher with the ability to chunk plays out of the backfield. He say that on. Take the woah Again with highlight she gets in the bad Sorry yet the good without bad run off. The couch was impressive and effective birth. Two thousand eighteen in twenty twenty Squares updates his passport. Judy's stepped up with huge efforts when it was most native for the buckeyes most consistent type was a couple years ago he can tend to run a bit outright on the weakness side slow to process moving pieces in tight quotas. Indecisiveness again was brought up in kate. As kate witness he can. It's times like be gentle bursts to make a living constantly between the tackles a that also depends on who you're running behind Any was uncreative run out dwelling a highest state. I think with similar gain like not canada at the offensive coordinator position. I'm less worried about that. Just made -posedly One of the other things to look at differently. I look a lot on preferable network with some of these prospects again. They not danger to of speeding quickness intending the corner and he's in a tree perimeter run. I think we need to open lanes of when you think about this guy. Like kevin donaldson That's a really interesting pace there And again zach. Banner to so if you keep those guys on the right if you do move Decastro what can we do on that side. you know. He you know their analysis in terms of preferable network was that zoom into these games in a level after transferred to a high state for glaucoma. He's a big back Us effective running on the inside and catching out of the backfield. That's what we need with. The pittsburgh steelers Any could be developed into a faith journey on sundays in the right offense again. That's where it is is the right offense. He was a four star. Recruit coming out of high school received offers from alabama florida a highest state and georgia. He bypass punishes with schools. Instead chose oklahoma and then obviously we know transferred to ohio state He is shown up in playoff series. Big big tom. Player there And that's what. I find really great about him in the big ten championship game These impact against clemson university. He had one hundred ninety three yards and one touchdown on thirty one carries against the venables vaunted defense. I think the fact that that's highlighted. It's really interesting pace there. He's an ohio state running back. He's six foot one two hundred and fifteen pounds you. It's just that athleticism. That's the question they're of why. And this difference why you not seem in the top running backs. I watched a Is analysis video of him. Over six weeks ago nell was four to six weeks ago. with jj bucky brooks. That was saying trae soon. Great fit for tame Bit like the steelers they were saying. This guy's gonna shop. He's probably the one running back out of them all. That's outside of the the big three in jilin williams travis Eh n and nausea harris. That could have a much more successful longer term career if you will outside those three in terms of all the running backs So that's gonna be a really really interesting. Tain also considered fit for the patriots the ravens in the sites according to pro football network You know and he can rise into early day. Three combs by great. I think he's gonna be. You're going to struggle to same outside. The you know the one hundred peak think preferable network having a unit. I think it was eighty nine. Leonard the draft network having Around just outside that hundred As well so. I bit of consensus hearing to wear his fooling. Given the teams will get the running backs any quite quickly desperate desperate teams which you could say the pittsburgh steelers one and we don't necessarily draw running back mail one. He becomes a really interesting prospect. I think he's in la down back. I think yet. The you've got these pittsburgh steeler fan fan of trason. Let's bring him in the next. I wanted to move on to quickly before. I going to apply. I can't wait to talk about. Is john bates. John bates tight end. Now he's a guy that might not iman even go on draft draft profile six five and a half white two hundred and sixty pounds. He's a threes started recorded a career. Best twenty two catches as a genius. He's a tough lodge tight end. Effective in all facets to the position menzies names blocks leverage. Fis off the snap into defenders explosive. At the point price heads up for works blocks solar out run a stays. Low exiting breaks and makes receptions with his hands extends and snatches the ball out of the air nights. The difficult catching a crowd. Could he do the could would have got the catch. jesse james. We know. Jesse james did Possesses focuses walls on my hand coordination. Negative is that he slow place one spade and lacks burst therefore that makes him an average athlete. That's the biggest knock on a tweet ending the steelers offense. Emily's is as tottenham him prospect. It's gonna be available really really. Lighten the draft that can catch and combat walk. That unexcited by that. I think sided by that. Because i think that's where this could get a real steel palm upon there are thinking draw network actually has right there at Two hundred and forty three so the steelers a peaking at two hundred and forty five and two hundred fifty nine the two hundred forty three quad from the dolphins and the turn of fifty nine from the ravens g forty-five imagine going to forty five to peaks on from where he's currently going on. But let's get back a little bit back into john bates as well. He's not a well known name amongst most of the nfl draft community. Why might be news to you. And you sitting. That named think of him Boise state he was a bit unproductive baying third or fourth option. The passing game brought in as a block. That's how we know that we need where we know. There's still use those titans New however he was dominant track athlete in high school and he's athletic profile could lead to more productive carrying the nfl so always said he was only athletic before that was mainly he. Spayed splash plays. Chevy's body control natural hands and quality downfield spayed It's easy to say our team collage traits and raise me in the draft board but a lack of real production heavily ways down. He's stalk Should and the question of pro football networks age should should he be drafted shoot attain taika punt on him To to use that australian slang. They're on a began bill. book the nfl draft unpredictable. Said look as we know. It's unpredictable where he could be draft. He's a big question year. he was the top taught. End in offense In his for boise state and his final season finished full from the taming. The odds and fifteen receptions and he's twelve point three hours perception where decorative of his abilities to make the plays down the field nine hundred if he gets. I've been with a guy like been with a quarterback like ben roethlisberger You know it's you know. They're basically saying for bates. It's about coaches using his flexibility. When you've gotta golic. Eric ebron there. The is gonna focus. You know when you've got attain they can do some things todd in own or particularly offensive coordinator matt. Canada should say how we could use a guy like john bates network side of things. They didn't interview with him. And you know a get earlier on these off season earlier in march. I one thing that stood out to me. And i read through. The full interview was like what if they yes no question. What's your favorite pot of plane. That's items asian. And he said. I really love the physicality that comes with it. That's probably my favorite pot. You know what you're trying to do when you're gonna do it or while playing the title. Wigan run routes we're gonna catch bulls also gonna put a hand in dirt and get physical. At the line of scrimmage as well. that's the best aspect of it. we get to physically in persia. Willin someone we also get to run around and catch dot ca catch touchdowns everything we do is physical. Is this a play that you want an economy tapping the table with my pen. This is taught in you. Want on the pittsburgh steelers wanting to be physical or god. I can catch the football. A guy that can make plays. He doesn't have to be the quickest tight end on the field. You know we can use like jalen samuelsson. H backward for that. We've got plenty of fos wide receivers but a guy that some afraid to put his hand in the dirt this little player. i like. he doesn't come from. You know the biggest school in college football as well and labs something to prove pittsburgh steelers anywhere from sixteen all modes. I'm interested. Let's bring in John bates taught in boise state. You heard it he. I really interested to see if the steelers can bring this guy in and now we move on to one of my favorite players in this entire draft. He's young Go through nfl. Dot com profile. And he's droff network profile as well Pro football network not is michigan. Linebacker cameron mcgraw camera mcgrane. He's given a prospect. Nfl dot com of six point ten. He's right among the tea. Was a five star prospect right in among the top twenty five overall recruits in the country out of indianapolis lawrence central high school. When he signed with the wolverines. He red shirted his first year and played one game on special teams. Move into the starting lineup for ten of fitting contests in two thousand eighteen so knows bush. mcgrane garnered an honorable mention. All big ten on his sixty six tackles non and a half for loss with full sacks. He started five games in two thousand. Twenty twenty six tackles for loss for mistime weeds majoring to quit for the nfl draft. He's adequate size and athletic ability. He might user so sayings. Twenty teen. Detained type was better than two thousand twenty particularly given the amount of plays he. Did you plays with a natural physical demanding. You don tight. You run wants to get tackles for loss where he wants to get onto that quarterback impression rim as well you say that more than what i think. Most people realize with him. He's got the skill and strength to make plays in front of him. He tends to play again through a straw Limiting still position and ability to make plays with efficiency gains passionate misdirection. There isn't enough good type. Suggest he may affect on passing downs but he has the talent to be early down back. Who could move up the ranks. The manifold dot com finishing when we look at the profiles to strengths. Good build a musculature raids ks and understands blocking schemes good understanding of attack angles willing to take chances to make plays behind the line that show up on type From what i've watched adequate upper body strength too from blocks subtle lengthly changes to keep orcas guessing shoots for body on body tackles closes out targets and finishes with good play strength to bend in deep under pulling books on a split sign adequate sideline to sideline range Witnesses cornell fellow calm relatively limited game amount of gain action as young if he's on the twenty one plays narrow in a bow below average vision poll feel angles to successfully leverage. The gap allows playside. Showed it to be covered by the way block would benefit for more proactive. Use of his hands to control the action Downing mentally running out of the position against counters he can lose track of coverage duties at times An unable to sniff out. Play action on misdirection. I wonder though on that one. I don't think that's as bigger witnesses is being made out but that's an interesting consideration contains You know did it looking drafting camera. Mcgrane meeting onto the droff network. They've labeled camera cameron groans. Forty-three bets. Pull prospecting the draft Now as we noted just because someone's labeled on another one a mock draft prospect for doesn't maintenance they drafted You know i'm profiling camera grind with the understanding that he nice to be there in round three you may have to get him in round two And maybe if someone like craig humphrey and land casino football. That's what you look to do. When you get a guy that. I previewed a few weeks ago in trae hill inside Offensive linemen from georgia looked to get him. Maybe in the fourth round to cement up your center position but anyway let's get back to macron. He's sort of outlined these really a redshirt. Sophomore antezana fo- draft process with nineteen games and fifteen stops at michigan. It's a small sample size. That will need leave. Leave teams needing extra clarity in order to work out. He ceiling with dead within their defensive schemes. On the as the starting light linebacker position in twenty nine tain You know he was tremendous out the cosa turn on ten nineteen season. He didn't play at that level in two thousand twenty played a couple of games He has all the physical tools. Need to be a dynamic defensive playmaker for an. Nfl franchises the hop aid in the middle. Imagine not alongside devin bush. We know what the needle doc is. Different tampa bay in initi- is super bowl kenner. We have two guys in in in that sort of sense as well Macron's does show toughness and he in the season in he played with the cost on his hand in the games he did play and he wasn't afraid to lock horns with offensive. Lineman at the line of scrimmage. That's what i wanna hear. Out of the pittsburgh steelers linebacker he's value stems from his explosive athletic profile and three down value for the nfl game. You should get a chance to crack a starting lineup fairly early on despite limited college experience again. He's he's someone that we can note you through. We know different. Bush didn't start diwani. I mean Shays year did start early on bitty again here. that right. is this something we can do with cameron brian. They're moving onto the droff network You they were fairly similar in sort of that analysis there. They said it's going to be really interesting to see where it gets peaked in the nfl draft. He's not gonna really let necessarily trouble. The devon bush level of expectation I still think there's massive upside upside in him. The biggest thing as that like it will be the interior linebacker in a three four defense. He'll be middle on docker in a full three defense again. The over football network. They were sort of saying the fifteen starts in. Nineteen games is where teams will be a little bit conscious deficit teams. That might be in mocked the position of the saints. The broncos the rams and the cleveland browns. I just think with a guy like cameron mclaren comes out of michigan steals now a bit about linebacker out of michigan obviously didn't bush if he if he's as good as what is talent could look like. Let's let's get that tackle at twenty four all that running back at twenty. Let's not go get his ivan collins on the on again. Some of my bait. Usa colleagues he talked about savin collins. Let's get camera mcgrane. Let's go make sure our offense can do things because ultimately it's going to be about how many points we can score if we're going to tight of tire with can kansas city. Yes the defense is going to be capable but world's again up to twenty plus points on the board. That's great tackles in this class. That can be the book hand of our offensive line for years to come. Let's look outs out at outside. The linebacker position I did hear at the draw projections day that jason. Oa would full to us at twenty four and that's interesting perspective. It does happen but no. Let's get camera mic grind. Being talking about him in the betas say slack channel since march fourth again on march sixteenth. So i know. He's up in a couple of the different shows and articles on the site that i've been on camera grind since the start of march could not wait to premium. You know these way. Go watching that slates episode. The indigo carbon program brings together companies. That believe in the transformative power of beneficial agriculture it enables farm innovation that can increase oil held carbon sequestration and profitability potential while improving resilience to climate change iowa farmer miller is ready to scale this impact to his implicit goal beginning. But it's really open up to all these other benefits. I never expected learn more at indigo ag dot com slash recode.
#733: The Dead Don't Die / Last Black Man in San Francisco / Rocketman
"What kind of show you guys putting on interested in looking to do this conversation? From chicago. This is film spotty. I'm joshua. And Madame Dr shouldn't we be telling each other that it's all going to be okay? But this will go away like a bad dream. Gene, mendy. I'm not sure I can say that Adam driver. They're bringing the hard truth to khloe seventy that. No, it doesn't look like Zambia's will be leaving anytime soon net clip from the dead. Don't die, the latest from director Jim Jarmusch, jerem Sprott, his indelible stamp to the vampire movie in two thousand fourteen with only lovers left alive. It was probably only matter of time before he got his arby's. And only matter of time before he cast, again, Bill Murray until the Swinton they're part of a large ensemble here, along with driver and seventy are review plus my interview with the director and star of Sundance hit the last black man in San Francisco. It's all head on film, spotty. You're listening to film spotting director Jim Jarmusch, stalwart and hero of the independent movie scene has been on a bit of a roll recently 2017 Patterson with Adam driver as a New Jersey poet. Bus driver was considered by many one of the best of that year. We were both definitely positive you're on the show and our review. The same goes for his twenty fourteen vampire riff only lovers left alive. Josh you liked it so much? You had it as your number seven movie of that year. I didn't I feel like I should have had Patterson in the top ten to looking back. Yeah. I think it was top twenty for me. It's not uncommon for Jarmusch to impose his unique sensibility on movies, John rose. In addition to amperes, he's given us the nineteen ninety-five surreal, western deadman's that star Johnny Depp, and in nineteen ninety nine we had the hip hop, samurai movie ghost dog. With forest Whitaker also a bit of a mobster movie. Yes. Doc. It works in that genre, as well here. Of course, he turns to Zambia's with the dead, don't die. Also on the show and interview with director, Joe tell. Albert and actor, Jimmy fails, they are the director and star of the last black man in San Francisco. It headed debut in January at Sundance where tell won the festival's directing award. He was also a winner for creative collaboration the US dramatic special jury award. And the film was nominated for the grand jury prize in the drama category, but Talbott might be able to set all those Sundance awards aside and make room potentially for film, spotting golden brick. It definitely qualifies, that's for sure. I though, zombie movies frequently function as allegories or social commentaries of some kind. So what do the undead mean for Jim Jarmusch in the dead? Don't die down a while. This is really awful very the worst thing I've ever seen while the most. So what he's. I'm thinking on these. You know, the dead ghouls. Gorgeous. Oh my. Again. Slush eating som- B's joke. It's really, really creepy. Oh man. This isn't gonna end. Well. Gravitate towards things. They did when they were alive called b. Did she just say Chardonnay? He has. She did with the dead. Don't die. Jim Jarmusch doesn't exactly do for some B's. What he previously did for vampires only lovers left alive with Tilda Swinton. And Tom hilson as the title bloodsuckers use such archetypal figures to anchor in existential tone, poem about the death of imagination the dead. Don't I is much more of a straightforward genre piece. Or is it set in the peaceful all American town of Centerville? The film follows law men cliff played by Bill Murray and Ronnie, played by Adam driver as they casually patrol their Norman. Rockwell by way of David Lynch community. There's definitely a little bit of that. And I believe you're obligated to say Centerville a real nice place. It is quite a nice place. Something though, does seem off, including the fact that the sun refuses to set. But it isn't until a couple of locals are found. Disemboweled. In a diner that cliff and Ronnie suspect. Zombies Germany has some fun playing with genre night of the living dead is the fountainhead. He probably sites the most but is something else going on here. I'm going to argue that there's something deeply political at work for reasons beyond the fact that Steve Chaman shows up as a farmer wearing a red make America white again. Baseball cap, actually. It's his keep America, Whitey doesn't say key, which doesn't make any sense at all. And I think that's another layer to the joke. See, I'm glad you just came from the screen so you can clarify those things. Thank you. It doesn't take long to realize that the dead, don't die is bloody disgusted about the state of affairs in twenty nineteen America. Now sense you just came from that showing Adam I was able to catch it a few weeks back now. I don't expect you to have a fully formed breakdown of the movie as a political allegory challenge. If you have such thoughts, I'm happy discussed the ways the movie is political, or maybe what we see zombie symbolizing. But first, let's just zoom out. And ask a broader question if you don't agree with the movies of sump Shen, which, I took as the fact that twenty nineteen America's going to hell in a Handbasket design be apocalypse is upon us, if you don't agree with that. Is there anything here for you to appreciate has Jarmusch political angst energized him? Or do you feel like it has maybe paralyzed? No, I would definitely say, more the former and we can maybe talk about the meta elements to this film, and whether that ends up being successful as comedy or satire or anything else. But I do think there's enough, deadpan charm and humor here to say the movies worth a look and we could probably because I think you like the movie to definitely. Yeah. We could probably sit here and share our three or four favorite jokes from the movie. At least I didn't laugh out loud, ton. But I was amused the entire time by this movie, and there's an extended bit that I do not wanna spoil at all when the police officers and character in Hank played by Danny Glover. Discover the first set of bodies at a diner, it's just a very Jarmusch slow burn that also is kind of rooted in our sense of these characters even very early in this film, and their relationships and their dynamic. It just all makes such perfect sense in this world. So I loved that, that maybe my favorite joke in the film, even if you didn't know anything really about Jarmusch, and his point of view, though, you should probably expect some kind of political satire from zombie movie or most monster movies, you touched on this, and I remember prompting discussion of only lovers left alive, mentioning how if you will vampires as metaphors, you'd see the results ranging from the very specific to the abstract throughout history and all forms of art and Jarmusch explicitly said at the time that he thought, vampires, he was using vampires here as a resonant metaphor. And we talked about night, a living dead just a few years ago, here on the show Halloween. It was a sacred cow episode. Six fifty four. If you wanna seek it out, and we spent a ton of time on the Samis as metaphors in that film, for Vietnam, for race relations for a whole lot about the state of America in the late sixties, and especially in Donna, the dead, the follow from Romero, he really focused on consumerism. So here we are back to fight club a little bit. And that element is definitely at play here. Especially when you see the first pair of zombies show up at the diner in go for the coughing is not a Starbucks but they have to douse themselves in coffee, and we see his ambi- later just kinda loitering around and they're asking for wifi and skittles zone about they just fall into all of their old habits the same way they all go to the mall in Donna, the dead. So that's definitely to get back to your question of judge cute in pretty quick to the idea of this being some version of Trump's America because of that Lucia me red hat and a little bit of talk early on of destr-. Trust of government and its agencies, but you could almost just dismiss that is sort of backdrop, and maybe even a little bit of an inside joke until it finally really hit me, which is when they keep reinforcing the idea of the earth being completely off its access that this reanimation is happening because everything that we thought was normal is now abnormally, and I do feel this way, every single day for especially the past three years. I feel like the earth has shifted his access. We no longer have any norms to rely on night is day day is night and the dead are living the metaphor absolutely holds up. But I'll push one step further. And maybe I'm reaching a little bit. But for the obviousness of the metaphor here, there's one subtle aspect to it. I thought earliest did seem subtle to me. I do feel like Jarmusch might be kinda slyly posing the question. What kind of citizen, are you then when those norms breakdown when the world is turned upside. Down. How do you respond to it? Do you as one of the characters one of our main characters? We see succumb to the terror just give into it. Do you just observe as one of the characters does through binoculars most of the film? Do you fight back? Or I think maybe we see a little bit in the Adam driver character the police officer he plays Ronnie Peterson. Do you fight back? But along the way kind of lose a bit of your humanity. I think we see that maybe in his willingness to embrace a certain bloodthirsty nece, and he's not doing it in a way that suggests that he's enjoying it. But nevertheless, he has a very quick willingness to be brutal to do. Whatever is necessary that does actually shock and really surprise his fellow officers khloe seventy and Bill Murray. So that was something that did kind of stand out even beyond the obvious Trump metaphor of play here Ronnie stands out for me in. In one particular way. And that is, he's almost preacher naturally aware of what's happening. So before anything has really gone too badly. He says, for the first of many times, I don't think this is going to end up. Well in the end variation. This is going to end says it in different forms. And I think he says that repeatedly because one of the things that stood out to me about this movie which you're right. Is very funny. And I'm glad you mentioned that at the top because before we talk about all the political implications. We should note. I found this very amusing sounds like you did too, and that should that should be clear for people to know what they're getting into you kinda fun. At this thing. I think that's why he's not politically paralyzed by it. It's still able to have enough deadpan Jarmusch fun, same time. But Ronnie's maybe one of the only characters who seems to admit what's going on here. He's the one who finally says, not to ruin that joke. You rough. But finally suggests maybe it's ambi- at the yes of that gag because everyone else here is. So you mentioned there's a slow burn to this movie there. So slow on the uptake, and I think that's one of the pointed political aspects going on here. Is that while the world to some of us is upside down, and does seem to be falling apart, while the constitution is crumbling, while the environment is being willfully degraded, don't forget polar for racking polar. Fracking is to blame for this obvious and somewhat guessing. I mean I do think it's worth noting that there is an explanation for the NBA as wild as it might be, which usually in these types of films. If I think about night of the living dead. I don't recall there being any kind of explanation for they don't even attempt. It just happened. Yeah. There's I feel like there might be a space reference there, that I'm getting a bit. But it's not as direct as here, know where the environment is brought into play yet everyone else. This is why the beginning of this movie there. Dr. Ving around just kind of blissfully unaware, as we all know what's going on. And I think the film is sane. We're doomed almost only use seem to take more positive vision on these different ways. You can respond which I see there, but I feel like the movie say, we're doomed, and now I don't gets pretty pessimistic. We don't even realize that we're do yet. Like some of us are these just distracted by these, the wife, Serey bluetooth coffee. That's what they're going after. Those are the very things that distracted them when they were alive from from what was going on. Yes, why they weren't even aware of this, the institutions that should be protecting us the law men here. They're clueless. There's a moment where Bill Murray, isn't watching, where he's going literally falls into an open gray. Yes, he does. I mean it's, it's kind of obvious in that point. But I just think this is really about the fact that things have gone so off the rails, people aren't paying attention. The people who are paying attention and are screaming there. Not getting heard that's why Ronnie's repeated claims that things are going badly sound kind of like the Muller report. Like, yeah. Okay. Whatever. Let's just yes. Just go on with how the things are until it's too late. And there's something grimly funny about that. There's something maybe cathartic about it again. It all depends on if you don't think anything's wrong, if you think things are headed in the right direction. Yeah. I do wonder what this movie offers for you. Besides maybe some genre thrills. And some of those jibes Han. Yeah. Deadpan humor. But I really think the heart of this is a deeply pessimistic and accusatory tone, really that we are selves, have let things gone off track. I think that's where the zombies are implication, implicating the audience, I should say is designed to a-political right? The ones who didn't want to get involved or were distracted. And now here we are, and the end is upon us. Yeah. No, those elements are all definitely at play here. That'll said some of the pleasures of this film are those Jarmusch touches like even just seeing one of the first set of zombies appear, and it's GI pop because we all make the joke that Iggy pop is basically been some form of zombie since nineteen seventy one. Right. So it just makes such perfect sense. Method acting. That's exactly right. Tilda. Swinton Tilda Swinton. Okay. Go ahead. You described till the question kid describe her. And that's what great. She's like she's apparently Scottish Scottish mortician yet. And she runs a funeral home town new to town, but she also has some samurai abilities with a sword. And she does have very weird is, and it's an eccentric. Tilda Swinton character. Yeah. But she is just so fun to watch every moment of the movie for me. She's so amusing, but yeah, I as I said, have had a few more weeks to think about this idea not place her in the scheme of things at all. So I need a listener theory on how till the. Fits unless you've got one. Well, no. I don't really have one and certainly don't without getting into spoilers as much as there are spoilers with this film. But I asked the question that I think the movie is questioning what do you do in this hell scape? And she has very clear answer. Sure, right. She. She knows what she's doing. And I don't just mean the way she fights zombies. But ultimately, what happens to her? She has a plan to scare this place. None of other characters have they don't even have that option. But as we talk about that, and you mentioned the opening scene, that's actually what clued me into this idea of kind of the lawlessness in the chaos of it, and what choices we make how do we decide what laws we're going to follow. How do we decide what's acceptable, and what isn't acceptable it all happens there, in this setup where the two cops driver and Murray, go out because they've been called by the farmer, the guy wearing the, the red hat and they have to go confront hermit. Bob, which is Tom waits. And Tom waits is exactly who you would expect him to be in this film. And he's a lot of fun. And he apparently stole a chicken but Adam drivers character says are we going to take this guy in at some point now we can say he's harmless? He's not guilty of some of the sins that others in this film or the others that the film is satirizing, our guilty of, but he's doing something wrong. He stole a chicken. He's been accused of it. He also does fire some two weapon. The police officer gets pretty serious, and Bill Murray's responses to just say, you know what I've known this guy a longtime. No. If it was anybody else, I'd probably take him in, but I'm not going to do that in this case and Adam drivers character is a little bit befuddled by that. So I just get clues you into that idea right off the bat, that all of this, this whole, this whole construct, government civilization society, really is just that it's a construct, and it's all about how you choose to behave within it. Okay. So construct brings us to the fact as you alluded to earlier. There are many meta elements here where the film, I think the first. Clue we get once they begin to break the fourth wall, you really wonder, okay? What is going on the first who is maybe the Sturgis Simpson title song, which has been written for this movie? It comes on the radio in the squad car. We've already heard the opening credits. Yeah. Yes. So now it's and then right after that in the scene. And one of them either Ronnie, I think it might be refers to as the thea-, he says, it's the and so you kind of pause there. They let that go by, and then a little later. Their conversations are so banal at the beginning. Right. And a little bit later. It one of the conversations takes a weird turn and cliff s Ronnie are we improvised? He says it we improving here and then just like that line about the theme song. They just kind of rush on their past, you don't really know where they're going with that. And then it, it finally goes to a place where, you know. Okay, this is full on meta. Yeah, it is. And I'm thinking to myself. How does this play into like the politics that are going on? And it seems to me at first, it just seemed like a straight up spoof. Like they wanted us to know. We know we're in a bad zombie movie like he was trying to hit those beats of the boring setup before the action goes in. But then I realized no, what, what they are probably really pointing out is that we're not in a bad zombie movie. We're, we're in a bad movie version of America. Yeah. And it's reflecting that MIR in that way because this again, both to both of us, it does feel like that. And then we moved deeper and deeper into those layers while they still they mostly maintain their characters throughout the rest of the film. I think completely breaks at any point. L even rakes France to the screen plan. There's a clear reference to the screenplay and the director. Yes and the director, I would say that's where it really breaks. But at the end of the film, it's back to being zombie film. So it's, it's a very strange experience. No, it definitely is. And certainly, we have seen self-aware zombie movies. That's kinda what Shaun of the dead is all about the, this one is definitely. My recollection of Shawna that it's been a long time since I've seen it is the filmmaker Edgar, right? And goes, it's ambi- movie I don't recall, the characters necessarily knowing. No, but they're steeped in zombie movie. Okay. So they do then understand that there's a certain way to behave of the game. So it's kinda like scream and that serves a little bit. Right. So very self aware. And this isn't that self-aware but it does acknowledge that we live in a post Romero universe. It's openly acknowledged him in namedrop Romero, and one point, the whole film takes place in Pennsylvania, just like those ambi- movies do beyond that. There's an explicit psycho reference. There's a shot that seems straight out of the birds one character Caleb Landry Jones who runs a gas station, very fun. Very fun. And he is wearing a nose Farrah to shirt, the entire movie, and that grave the open grave that Bill. Murray's character cliff falls in Iggy pop. I believe probably the guy who got out of that, grave, maybe at least the movie could suggest that. The next day, did you see his name on the team? So I forget, I saw I when it just kind of panned by it. And then there's an unmistakable shot when he gets up from the ground, and it shows his name, his name Samuel fuller, nice. So his name is Sam fuller farmer if I'm not mistaken, and I don't know that there's any kind of horror connection to either of these two names. But the farmer that Steve Chevy plays. I believe his name is Frank Miller farmer Miller. And you said it Bill Murray's character is named cliff Robertson. Clifford Robinson me. He's, he's actor my favorite joke. My favorite movie reference joke, though is Rosie Perez, showing up as a TV anchor news anchor. Enter name is Posey. Warez. They just reverse the peon and the are on Rusi for as that somehow made me live, every time she was on screen. I could've used a little more rosy press to be honest with you. And there, there are a couple of loose ends, we should say, now it sounds like we've are enjoyed it quite a bit. I think maybe one of the reasons this is not getting as warm reception as we might have expected for Jarmusch film, with this sort of premise is because something's just don't add up, as we've suggested something's just get forgotten. I think I would you've broken down some of the characters depending on how they choose to act in this world. I would also distinguish them by how soon they're aware of what's going on high talked about how Rani seems to be aware Tom waits. The survivalist is aware, or unfazed, we should say, sure, by Zambia pock clubs. He's not surprised at all because he's already been suspicious of government. And what have you and he'd kind of is so removed from the society that they don't come after him. And he can just observe what's happening. So another group who is. Let's say relatively unfazed trio of kids in the local juvenile detention center. And, and at first, I thought this is really interesting. I can't wait to see where this goes. I mean maybe these kids are maybe fatalism has just somehow been beaten into them to a degree that Asami apocalypse is not anything really new. They escaped they run away. They're they're, they're worried about it, but they're not the other characters whose minds are just blown by couldn't wait to see how they were going to cross paths with the rest of the story and was gonna play out and they disappear. I mean I asked you as I sat down. Did I miss something or no? Does that plot element? And those characters just honestly disappear. They, they do, so I'm not sure what that's all about. There is resolution to another group Selena Gomez with a couple of other just called hipsters through town. Yeah. And we see what happens to them, but I'm also kind of like what the Tilda Swinton character trying to place because they get a fair number of seeing, I'm not quite sure, how did they? Also fit into this entire scheme going on. I am not sure either okay? But maybe a listener out there who is smarter than both of us will write in and enlighten us, if you have seen the dead, don't die. We'd love to hear your thoughts. You can write in feedback at film spotting dot net massacre theater is next. We can only hope Adam once again plays a nineteen fifties bombshell, plus Adams interview with the creative team behind Sundance prize winner. The last black man in San Francisco. Stay with us. At night. For you. He. Through flu. Over the may Z was. Two. Flu. Flu. Jovi reached morning. It was a cold. See. Recalled out of the water. As with Lucia ever. From the hill behind the gas station in Scranton. Land rock was young. So much fun. Alright blue Jean baby. You saw rocket band, Terron Edgerton is Elton John index. Ter- Fletcher's bio, pic, I've been doing my best to avoid it, but you set aside some time this weekend. So let me know how wrong was. I to resent the very existence of this movie and pretty much all music bio-pics. Yeah. Well before I get to that answer. I did wanna share a little bit of listener feedback here to set up my thoughts because listeners have had so much fun with your anger about this film. And you're just total lack of desire when it comes to seeing this movie. So I thought I would include some of their comments, and we got this one from Leslie Basho. She's in Waverley Nova Scotia, Josh go. See rocket man. I'm not a fan of musical bios for all the reasons you stayed in I still have not seen bohemian rhapsody despite Rami Malik apparently good performance. I don't need to see a bunch of and yet, s- man, whose life would be fascinating, if it was shown, when my wife said, let's see Cold War. I said, what's it about? She said, as she scanned the info, it's a musical. Grown. No, please. Don't make me go as it turned out. It was a movie about music and musicians and the best movie I saw this past year. I think about it all the time, sign of great movie, I did not think about John wick the next day, although enjoyed it. Okay. I did think about rocket man the next day and still him. No, it is not Cold War. But it is clever. Interesting engaging, little self pitying. I think, but a great movie. I so want to hear what you guys think make it happen. Okay. Mary McEnroe, and I was city says, I saw and end this week and feel Josh should rethink his personal ban on this one. It's not really a bio pic. It's a musical fantasy along the lines of LA La Land just about a real person, and sex drugs, and rock and roll. Yes, John's life, was full of accessors, and we see quite a few, but there was also enough meat in the film to keep those of us desiring character development. Sated Eggerton performances, quite a revelation and although the ending was fairly worshipful of sir Elton, I just seen him beat off his demons and forgave him a desire to share what happened after he got his life together worth your time. So that was pretty much the, the general consensus. I was seeing on social media as well. I think you're probably getting bombarded with Josh heard a lot of that. But we did just this morning, get this from shorty in Melbourne, Australia. I found the fantasy musical rocket man to be overwrought with contrivance that's verdict. The steady of the film's deeper issues concern with Elton John's sexuality alcoholism, John songs are ubiquitous and cinema. And I can't have been the only one reenacting the scene from almost famous in my mind, tiny dancer, failed to garner the emotional response that it intended to vote, so Shahrani saying, contrived skip it. And of course, I wanted so so badly to agree with Mary and Leslie, I just wanted to pile on so much listeners, you know, this, you know how badly, I wanted to love this film. And for the first, I think, at least half hour of the movie my dream was gonna come true, I was already imagining in my head, how I was going to have to. Plane, a four star letterbox review out of five, but that's where I was after a half an hour with this film. If you're wondering why people keep calling it a musical fantasy. That's because it is when it flashes back early on to his childhood, and we get sort of obligatory, hard-luck life. How were you raised what were your parents like they didn't love you enough? It's all choreographed to the John song. The bitch is back and it's a huge number. It's a huge musical production in the neighborhood, and I'll say the more I heard that the more my will start at the weekend because that sort of invention appeal. So I love the formal invention especially as I said early on here because then it goes from that a little bit later. Fast forward to that version of Elton John now just a little bit older. I think he's kind of a young teen and he's playing in the pub and he starts playing Saturday night's. All right. And just like that he becomes a grownup teenager. A young man. Probably Aladdin his twenties, and it's this fake long, take single. Shot. But, you know, there was a lot of CGI involved to make it happen. He leaves the pub and it's this huge number with hundreds of extras and dancers. That's kind of a carnival scene and onscreen pretty glorious. It really was glorious. And even when it's not giving us an elaborate music number. There is a fantasy element to there is that invention like when he plays. We heard it there. He plays the troubadour for the first time, and he plays crocodile rock. This is his big breakout performance. And at one point during it, we see start floating to the point where he's parallel with the piano, and there's a lot of slow motion us and then the entire crowd there at such a fever pitch that they start levitating the entire crowd is off their feet, and it all comes swooping down. And they land in the music, blares back in so Dexter Fletcher, here's a director is definitely trying to elevate this material in a way that never happens with let's say bohemian. Rhapsody. And I know he was partly involved with that film. Rescuing it if that's the right word from Bryan singer. I think I do wonder Josh if some of the praises movie is getting at least critically comes from the fact that everyone is comparing it to Baheen rhapsody. And if that's the grading scale, I get why this movie is mostly getting pass, but you said you were intrigued by that concept if this really was a musical. I wish it really was. It doesn't actually commit to that musical structure, just sprinkle some of those scenes in throughout the movie, but mostly devolves into the same cliche d- performance, scenes and scenes of sex and drugs that Bahamian rhapsody and its ilk. Inevitably do, and for me. There's also something fundamentally flawed in the musical approach, though as much as I enjoy the production elements and fully admit here that mileage may vary. But in trying to tell these personal moments telling Elton John's story through his songs there's this issue of Elton. Himself never writing any of his own lyrics. These are all Bernie toppings lyrics and Jamie bell plays him and he's really good. I think Egerton for the most part is really good here. But whether Elton John made them personal or not. Bernie, even is mythology. Ising this American west, most of the time that he's never even been to in the movie touches on this. So he's writing songs that he even personally doesn't fully relate to that doesn't make them non great songs. In fact, most of them are pretty great. But for me the movie, then has to actually kinda strain to tie the songs back to John's life and that includes tiny dancer, for me unfortunately, and I guess, I'll close with this, and I'll throw it out as more food for thought than direct criticism. Though, it does get at a general feeling of dissatisfaction I had leaving the theater. Rocket men presents the rockstar bio pic dilemma, aka is it better to watch a rock? Star burn out or fade away. It usually goes that the artist we know the story he flies too close to the sun. He Cinches his wings, he plummets to the sea, and he drowns bohemian rhapsody had to cheat the facts, a little bit as most by fix due to get the ending. It wanted Freddie, does drown. Of course, Freddie Mercury dies. But before he does that we see his personal growth, and we see his personal growth and his happiness, or at least he's, he's on a path to getting there and it magically coincides with the pinnacle of his artistry this Live Aid concert. So we see Freddie, kind of exercise his personal demons and give this Titanic performance and it really is Titanic performance. It staggering Elton, John. Of course, we know this he doesn't drown he's rescued. But how much does he ever really get off the ground and Shari, mention this notion of contrivance? It's hard to watch the movie try to sell us Elton John's. Artistic revival. I knew it was coming with. At least twenty minutes left and I was kind of out loud saying, please, please no. Don't do it. But it gives it to us to the tune of Eggerton performing. I'm still standing while he shooting that God, awful video saw four million times as a kid on MTV. So my question or the thing, I'm still kinda wrestling with a little bit, his if the happy ending here is just the personal growth, which is really what it is because yes, he went on to write other hits, I knowledge that he's a huge success commercially? But really the payoff of the film is not the kind of artistic excellence that we see in these films or that we see in Bohemia, and rhapsody with Freddie Mercury. If it's about the personal growth, overcoming, those demons and getting sober, then maybe you have to tell a different kind of bio pic, one that suggested by the? Conceit the movie uses, but also like the musical numbers kind of abandons, which is this idea of him, telling his story in therapy, it's all flashbacks, because the movie opens, and closes with him going to rehab, and finally, getting clean and sober. So I'm just struggling with that here where I almost want the satisfaction of that traditional bio pic, payoff, that you don't get here. But we do get as good as it is, for Elton, John, the man, it's not satisfying from an artistic perspective, at least not for me as viewer. While I respect your critical integrity. I have to say is I know you were that's a first. You're ready. You're really read, I was this thing. I can't say I'm more swayed. Surprisingly to see it. I'll just I will report back. You were kind enough to invite me to this showing on Sunday afternoon and bef- raid, the prior engagement. I had the wiping clean the mold my houses. Citing it when really well, it's nice, shiny white. I think it was time. Well, spent rock is currently playing in wide release. If you think it was time well-spent, new Josh's, an idiot, you think I'm an idiot, too. But at least I'm the idiot who saw the film, you can Email us feedback films spotting dot net now. Josh apparently got so upset about this whole rocket man fiasco in me devoting, probably this much time it that you're skipping next week show in protest Justice. It's throwing me so off. I need a break. Actually, you're just going to be off as family. Vaca- is LA trim. Yeah. Heading to California k the mecca of culture. That's sure. And now I've alienated I'd only done fans, but our biggest audiences in LA, Sam just just edit that out just that out and go into the mecca. Yeah. Make me not sound like a total jerk. Maybe this will make up for it. When you're gone, we're gonna have a lot of fun here. I know we are at about this. We are going to review Toy Story four, we mentioned this last week on the show Toy Story four and we're gonna share our top five Toy Story, scenes or moments and we did announce this on Twitter. We weren't quite ready to say this on last week show. But finally, the crossover I know a lot of people were hoping for, if you're a fan of the blink check podcast with David SIMS and Griffin Newman Griffin who is also an actor and most recently has been on the tick Griffin is going to join me on the show filling in for you. Josh? He is a huge fan of the Toy Story series. Yeah. I would say if a half, MRs show, it would doubly kill me if someone sat in who is like. Picks Toy Story share. Right. I guess I'll do it, but yeah, knowing how much he loves this series in particular. It's a perfect fit. We'll be great. We've been DM back and forth, and even though it was about two weeks away at this point, when we were talking, he's already started his less. So now, now, I'm I'm feeling a lot of pressure. I'm really going to be outgunned here. I think on the show, but looking forward to that with Griffin Newman. If you have a pick, we'd love to hear we might even included in the show Email feedback at film spotting dot net. Or you can leave us a voicemail three one two two six four zero seven four four. Of course, if you have the means to record your own audio file, just go ahead and do that any male then to feedback at films spotting dot net. Our current film spotting poll over film spotting dot net has us asking about your favorite non Woody Toy Story voice performance. Was it a mistake to include Tim, Allen's buzz light year? Among the options, we probably thought it was. And it turns out it probably was. But we have no choice. We're not amending this one. I know. We've done that in the past. Let's just maybe once. Okay, we're going to stick with it. We gave you the options. Allen's buzz Joan cusak. Jesse or Ned babies, lots of hugging bear? So you could vote other as well. If you wanted to if there's another character voice performance feel strongly about I feel like people are probably doing what I'm doing is making their primary vote, which is Alan and then trying to decide between the other two I'm leaning as I said, I think on last week show towards lots o'hagan bear. Buzz is unsurprisingly leading a comfortable lead. But there are good numbers here for both cusak and bady. We do want to get those comments from you. If you do vote in the poll will share those on next week show. So go ahead and do that at film spotting dot net for our Chicago area listeners who love free movies and not only free movies but free movies that you're seeing in advance of their release. We encourage you to go to film spotting dot net slash events on Thursday June twentieth. There will be SCR. Meaning of an interesting looking documentary called Bayden. It's about the first all female sailing crew to enter the Whitbread round the world race which took place in nineteen eighty nine the boat's skipper, Tracy Edwards, actually be in attendance at the screening. I'm guessing maybe doing Acuna afterwards. So that's Thursday night, June twentieth at the landmark here in Chicago again, foam spotting dot net slash events to enter to win those passes. And that's also where you can get more information about Joshua's little LA trip is going to conduct some business and a little bit of pleasure at the same time. Leave the kids stuck at the Airbnb watching Netflix, while you in Debbie go out with what is it like thirty five film spotting listeners at this point. We are if they're still listeners after I insulted in the mecca, we are going to be about thirty. I think we're up to so I did have to make the call and reserve some space to be that big of a constant the more. Well there. Negotiate a fee negotiations are underway. The limit on the credit card has been raised grant. So I think we should be just fine. But yeah it's coming up June twenty three Sunday night. Eight pm at Firestone Walker brewing company. Marina del Rey. We've got all that at film spotting dot net slash events where you can VP as well. I'd appreciate it. If you do that. Because if we get a lot more people, we're gonna figure out something else. I think you kind of, we're busting at the seams at this point, which is like the Kodak connect the. Yeah. We could see if it's valuable if Brenton Jason come away liking you more than me, the show's over. I mean, that kind of guarantee I'm just saying the show's over so keep that in mind, we also want to promote our friends over at the next picture show. Our sister podcast, this week, it's part, one of a Godzilla double feature, the new Godzilla king of the monsters paired up with issue Honda's nineteen fifty four original the next picture show drops every Tuesday at midnight. Please do subscribe, wherever you get your podcast and we encourage you to. Help us try to reach into listeners doing a survey over at film spotting dot net slash survey. It's that easy to get their fill spotting dot net slash survey. And the time it took you to go, there was probably about the same amount of time, it would take you to fill out the survey. We've been getting a lot of great responses great feedback, but mostly from people who purport to be who claim to be avid, listeners, the show and all that feedback is great. I'd actually really love to hear from more people who sampled the show or maybe heard us talk about it, and never sampled it. That would be really helpful again film spotting dot net slash survey. But we already have four hundred submissions, which really is remarkable. So thank you. Everyone for that a little bit more housekeeping we have over at our website, our nine from ninety nine poll. We touch on this last week as we talked about fight club. If you wanna check out that discussion and our top five fincher scenes you can go to phone spotting dot net. Click on episodes or go to those spotting dot net slash nine from ninety nine on that page is where we're letting you pick. Our next nine from ninety nine review. We decided to kick out Toy Story, two as one of the nine options, I'm guessing that's going to get enough love in the Toy Story moments and probably come up in the discussion of toys story four, so we gave you some more options including being John Malkovich. The talented Mr. Ripley, the insider election, three kings, and Joshua's beloved bringing out the dead, which right now is bringing up the rear not a surprise Nelson. Shame one more quick note here. Yeah, it's true. It's true. This is true film. Spotty madness. Twenty twenty. The shortlist is live on the website. It's life. What does that mean? For people, the shortlist is live, what it means for people is, if you want to participate more fully in film spotting madness you wanna vote with a clear conscience, having seen all of the films and not just voting for the one that you've seen, then we're allowing you to start your homework now, we had in the past through the first three years, I think of madness. Waited basically until kind of around, March, or at least February to start that process to post the list of movies, and we got some feedback. Great feedback from our listeners who said, you know, some time to prepare would be really awesome. So this past year with madness, the best of the twenty tens, salmon I did post that list, I think maybe right after the first of the year. So you had a few months before the madness began and we decided you know what? Why wait this time, especially we heard from a lot of our teachers in the audience, low teachers love film spotting apparently, which is great? And they said, you know what we've got a summer. Yeah. Gotta saw. Got a salary where we will be able to devote some time to catching up with films, wouldn't it be great to be able to fit in a bunch of these films? We haven't seen and it's posted on letterbox where already getting the tweets about it. We're getting comments on letterbox. We're getting emails, and it's great to see some people are like I've seen Seventy-nine percent. I've seen eighty seven I've seen over ninety percent. And then you get others were like I've seen forty three percent which means you seen about forty three of the one hundred four films posted on the shortlist, obviously, it's going to hurt, because at least thirty those movies are definitely getting cut. Right. And no salmon. I don't know which thirty those are yet we can even fully agree on what the top fifteen seeds are, but we're gonna have fun with it. We've got some time and we now have more time to hear from all the films budding listeners who want to tell us how badly we did and make suggestions and try to advocate for one of their favorite films to make the cut and all. All just mentioned one we did try very hard to get different prominent filmmakers on the shortlist. Sure. Again, even if they're not going to make the final cut, and I don't love every single movie that's among these one hundred four I like most of them. In fact, I think I'm only negative on five or six of them, probably my least favorite movie, and I know you like it more than me, but probably my least favorite movie on the shortlist right now is David Russell silver linings playbook. Okay. But Sam made the good case that having Russell represented made sense. So that is why you get some films on the list. We have I think three your go slanty most films, on the shortlist, and we can make a strong case for them. Dog tooth is a film spotting golden brick winter still my favorite, and it has to be right. And you could say, maybe it doesn't have to be, but the favourite was one of the best films of last year, and then the lobster, which is best you think it's as best. So there you go needs to be. In the mix. And it is. But there's no there's no Carreira pure Kazu crater didn't make the shoplifters also one of the best films of last year, but didn't make the shortlist. That's one. I'm rethinking another one. All the love for Denise Villeneuve out there. His movie arrival is on the list. Okay. But only a rival, and salmon. I both feel like it's the one of his films. That's the most deserving. There many others who can't believe blade runner twenty forty nine isn't on the list. Yeah. And Sicario I which both of those better than we talked about sees okay? Well, I'd ask where were you when we were making the list, but you don't have to decide but I know so anyway, the madness. Yes, has already begun as we sit here in June, still seven eight months away from it, actually beginning, hopefully, you will make good use of this time. We look forward genuinely to your feedback on that shortlist, again, film spa. Outing dot net slash madness. Is where you can find it. All right. Let's get to massacre theater the part of the show where we perform a scene, and you get a chance at winning film spotting shirt a couple of weeks back adamantly massacre this scene. It's nothing. I just thought that girls stick together. If it wasn't the Hupa would have kicked me off the train. I'd be nowhere sitting. Using outs when I think he'll pull you lately. If anything I can do you can think a million things that's Jack Lemmon and Marilyn Monroe in nineteen Fifty-nine some like it hot. It was written by Robert Thorne. Michael logan. I l diamond and Billy wilder of course, directed by wilder, the massacre was part of our show, a couple of weeks, back with our review of Livia, wild book smart, and we also list, our top five female friendship movies. So why did we choose some like it hot to massacre listeners had a few ideas? Yeah. Over Lieber goal in Tel Aviv. Israel gets the gold star for the week Josh over rights. The reason Meskher theater was from some like it hot and movie about two guys from Chicago pretending to be women in an episode film spotting featuring two guys from Chicago talking about women. There you go. Other connections. Some, like hot was directed by wilder books park was directed by wild on Marilyn Monroe was in the scene massacred and in gentlemen, prefer, blondes Josh's, number two female. Friendship movie as for your shared number one pick on that episode. Agnes Varda's one sings the other dozen throughout some like it hot, one of the characters sings Monroe sugar, cane, and the other doesn't Jerry slash Daphne. How about that? I mean, come on. Here's Don pulverize from Martinez, California. The massacre theater scene is from some like it hot. Josh did credible lemon. I would quibble that. This is not a movie about female friendships for the obvious reason that Tony Curtis and Jack Lemmon not women. Clearly Tony Curtis. Loved the drag Jack Lemmon was at his zesty best in ladies garb. Curtis. Also does a hilarious Cary Grant impersonation in the film, with lemon commenting who talks like that. The film showcases the no-holds-barred friendship between Curtis and lemon and between the two men with Marilyn Monroe. But I wouldn't say it was about female friendships. I do love this movie and watch it often as it is guaranteed to make me laugh juxtaposed men in drag with Marilyn Monroe really does make it self evident that they are a whole different sects as lemon. So aptly points out in the train boarding seen. Now it was nice. Don to say that you did a credible lemon. I think that was those must you got sprays before, Eric Bolling wrote in somehow Adams woman voice playing a woman is creepy than Josh's men voice playing a man playing a woman. I just thought that girl shits if it wasn't for you. They would have kicked me off the train, and I'd be out in the middle of nowhere, sitting on my ukulele. I guess that was really a shot at both of us, Josh and our performances though, I did mention last week for the most part, I got a lot of compliments for my breathy Monroe impression. Even if Josh God forbid, you know, there was no Verissimo. I didn't whisper the way she does you play the persona. You didn't play the scene. You're just never gonna get over this. Are you era goes on? So, yeah, thanks for that. Some like it hot was my introduction to wilder in high school in the late nineties, and in some ways my realization that movies older than me could be hilarious until then I was typical adolescent, those movies are old a couple months. So I showed it to my film club here at the high school where I teach in Arkansas, and they mostly had the same awakening, I had all those years ago on my I watch hot is indeed, a great film. And I know I'm going to anger people, and I say this, but this is just how much I love Billy wilder great. I think years as a filmmaker on my letterbox ranking of Billy Wilder's films, I have some like it hot at six. It's just foolishness to do a letterbox ranking of Billy wilder, it probably even you're right now. I mentioned the feedback on your performance. Josh, yes, we not glowing. We got a lot of different takes and suggestions on, who you might have been channeling. So you're sounded like list includes three mentions of Gullam to mentions of Marge Simpson guns. Oh, from the Muppets Megan Burke, from Oxford, Mississippi said that some like it was the ultimate female friendship movie, but added even though Josh sounded like one of the dark crystal pup. Fits enough team here now Adam, which one of those was going for. I know what you were trying to do what you were trying. You were trying so hard to nail. Jack lemmon. That's right. But none of it was a little too creature. The fairly the creatures just snuck in. Why don't you reach into the brimming film spotting at it really was brimming? So we must have done. Okay. And people must love some like it, hot region and pick out this winter, Josh, the winner is Jim mcdevitt from Boston. Congratulations, Jim Email feedback at film spotting dot net. And we will set you up with your, very own film spotting t shirt. No misnomer round bow tones. Now make you read your. Another fun filled edition of Meskher theater in store, Sam has decided to have some fun with the names in the scene. We had to change them otherwise, it would give it away, even though I think the scene itself will probably give away at least the tie-in to this week show, and one of our topics will be very clear. I think one of SAM's names is going to give it away. That's right. It could if people are really paying attention. So are you ready? I'm going to start it off. You're gonna give me the action. Yes, I think I'm ready. Okay. So the bit of a challenge, I'm trying. I'm trying to shed the Gallup's no creatures, no creatures Muppets. No puppets. Here we go. And action. What's happened to you? Reggie Dick's, stay out of this REBA. You're driving away. The people who love you most. I don't need anybody. Reba. All Meade is my music, this ain't about your music Reggie. It's about the drugs. Honey? I told you I'm going to quit again, just as soon as the record stone. Whenever that might be. Look, you can't rush masterpiece. You need to take a break. Reggie, you need to clean yourself up. Otherwise, otherwise, otherwise, I can't be married to, you know, more. I know you didn't mean that I believe, you know that I do and seeing do you like they're in that last line. How I tried to modulate from really sounded like a man to a woman within the line. I don't know that I pulled it off. I was impressed by the effort. Okay. And I'd like how you modulated the breath Innis lasts eight form. Now at six if you know what film, we just massacred? Email the movie's title, along with your name and location to feedback film spotting dot net. Your deadline is Monday, June twenty six the winner will be selected randomly from all the correct entries and announced in a couple of weeks. We build these ships. Threes. These canals. In the San Francisco, they never knew existed. This is. It's a Danny Glover double feature this week after the dead don't die in the trailer there for the last black man in San Francisco, an award winner at this year's Sundance film festival. It's just going into limited release this month including Chicago opening this weekend. It's directed by first time feature director Joe Talbot, and it tells the story of Jimmy fails, a young man with dreams of reclaiming large Victorian, house in the heart of the city that he spent time living in as a child home that his grandfather built Jimmy fails is played by Jimmy fails acting in his first feature role he grew up as a teen with Talbot. They were friends and the film story is very much. Jimmy's story. He shares story credit with Talbot on the film. I'm going to talk to Jimmy and Joe here in just a bit, Josh. But you read the same screening. I was at watching the last black man in San Francisco, a few days ago, I think it's definitely assure fire golden. Lick not only nominee probably going to be a finalist at the end of the year. Did you have the same experience? I did I think, so this is a really good one. And yes, we've named checked a couple of titles that would qualify for the golden brick so far this year. But the racist heating up, now I would say with the last black man in San Francisco, just a really unique setting clear, direct to'real vision and also just general creative vision. I think this collaboration is maybe what's, particularly interesting in terms of the writer and star and the director here, and for all its uniqueness. I think you can say it belongs to this interesting. There's an interesting lineage at work here with a couple of whimsical, rabble rousing class conscious independent films. We've gotten in the last handful of years. So you can see strains of sorry to bother you from last year with its air of revolt. There's also to me. I felt a lot of twenty twelve's beasts of the southern wild which had. A real affection for an outsider artistic community, and then above all it's part of this direct address, socially-conscious cinema that we've recognized for years from spike, Lee's, all of that those elements in, and yet, the movie still comes out all a piece of its own. I think a lot of that has to do with this San Francisco setting, the particular architecture of this home, this Queen Anne Victorian style, which is so intricate and ornate and reflective of the characters in a lot of ways. There's a ton of stuff going on here. I'll be interested to hear the interview and see what things you guys pull out from the music choices, how those were made to the fact that this movie is so conscious about transportation, as a marker of class. So these guys, the bus that almost never calms, so they share a skateboard, which in itself is just these two grown men sharing escape out of necessity, is a, a beautiful image of their. Friendship and also their situation and there are little bits, like when Jimmy has to jump on the back of a delivery truck to get, I think, here's where San Francisco comes into play famous city of hills. Right. So in a way transportations, even more of a social barrier in a place like San Francisco, and that gives one shot such power think it appears twice in the film extreme long shot of Jimmy skateboarding down. One of those famous hills and we just see him go back and forth. The trees are waving back and forth at the same time in the wind, and it's poetry in motion, but also social statement at the same time for sure there's a lot of that stuff going out in this movie. Yeah. There really is. And you're going to hear us talk about some of those music choices, we're gonna talk definitely about Spike Lee, and one of spikes films in particular. And you mentioned this in terms of the vision of the film. It's just clear from the very first frame, and it's maintained to the very last frame, that this is a film directed with purpose there. Our choices being made in every single shot. Whether it's the overall look of the cinematography the camera movement, where characters are placed in the frame, how the house itself, and those streets of San Francisco that you mentioned are framed and even that opening scene, where it starts on a young African American girl skipping along the street and approaching a man who's wearing a has met suit. And there's this haze all around him there on the pier in this less affluent part of San Francisco, you just watch that without knowing anything about this movie in, you would think you were watching potentially scifi film, and there's a line that we hear an oration, that's being given by one of the characters street, preacher, and he talks about. I think it's him talking about this merging of the past in the future. And that's what this entire movie feels like right from that opening. So let's go ahead and here the director, Joe Talbot, and the star Jimmy fails from the last black man, San Francisco talking. About some of those choices. So Jimmy, this is your story. You play a character with your name and the house and family elements are rooted in your actual experience and you guys were friends going back to your teenage years. Is that right? I'm curious about how both of you on this film approached the truth, and I don't mean so much, you know what lines up with reality, what events actually happened or not? But how you each felt about taking your individual experiences and meshing those together, and then translating them to the screen into something that is ultimately a fictionalized version of, of Jimmy story. Musher. I think it's. I think this story, you know, when it first the story that inspired everything, which is, you know, the story of the house in my family story. I think once people reached out in. We're telling us how much they related to that. I think that sort of helped story get more and more developed. Jimmy's referring to in that as early on. We knew, you know, this was going to be hard thing to make a feature film, we'd never done before. I'm a high school dropout. He's only ever started my movies. So we shot a concept trailer which was essentially him skating through the city telling the story of his grandfather, that had inspired the film. And so, when we put it online, not really expecting much or knowing what could happen. We started getting these emails from people who are saying, you know, these same things are happening in my city, and some of those people actually in the bay area. And so we kind of banded together and what felt like the last group of artists and San Francisco and together, we developed it over, you know, a few years, and I think through that process I mean, everything that we've done that we've made, including with my brother net. We made movies growing up. It always came from some true story, and then, through our sort of conversations and our collective imagination grew into something else. But we tried to keep the core of what was interesting about it to begin with, Mike, what had made us want to make it even if characters changed and situations. Did they often came from things that mid we'd seen? So I think that, you know, Jimmy says, sometimes, I think it's true. It's like we wanted to make it feel motion true. No matter out dream like the world, the part that really resonated with me. I grew up in a small town in Iowa and Chicago about sixteen years ago. But the part that really resonated with me was Jimmy's. Attachment, your tach mitt to the house that kind of sense of attornal ownership over this. I think about the first house, I lived in as a kid and lived in through junior. High is still romanticize it completely if I'm back in town. I drive by it every time I go there, if I had the means I'd, I'd buy it just leave it sit empty. Two times a year that I could go hang out, and it'd be the worst summer home of all. But it's something I would do if I have -solutely could my dad, I think about he had a guitar. When I was a kid and a motorcycle that now that he's passed if I could get my hands on those, of course, I'd give anything to do that. I'm just I guess I'm kind of curious about that and your relationship to that idea of, of ownership over those things, and why we sort of as, as humans, I guess, just inherently romanticize objects and things like that, I think. Got a question for you. If that's okay. What, what is that house, because you would want it back, what does it represent for you? Why would you want it back? Yeah. I've thought about this a lot, and I thought about a relation to this film. And I think it is. It's more than just it being something from your past that, you romanticize, you romanticize it because it's a time from your past when things were more stable. Exactly. Whoa. So, yeah, exactly the house represents from me represents family. Yet represents ownership. You know, I've never owned anything to that, you know. On their own a house. I'm twenty four so you know, but I think that's what it represented. And that's what that was my only tied to the city that made me fell like belonged, I guess, because it doesn't feel like I belong that much anymore. So, yeah. Anything yet it's like. Everyone has some longing for something from the childhood, you know, whether it's as big as a home, and like in Jimmy's cases place, where your family was before they weren't anymore. You know, and you have memories of what that felt like or for us collectively like the city, you know, there was a city that we grew up in, and I think that was sort of one of the first things we talked about, as we became close friends was, like, what that city felt like it's a hard thing to try and describe its morpheus, sort of feeling of, like sometimes you can distill it and like a certain interaction, you have walking down the street with someone that leaves, you feeling certain kind of warmth or a bakery, that you went to, and the smells of that place. You know, collectively, I think those experiences are what make the San Francisco that we grew up in and that city, feels farther and farther away. And that. Regional culture of, you know, all the things that field examine Cisco is, you know, at the threat of being lost. I think it's, it's part of where this movie came out of, was working through those feelings, and also almost wanting to capture that city before it's totally gone. Yeah. Yeah. And that feeling and that amorphous quality, you talked about you, definitely succeed in, in capturing and translating to the screen, I, maybe you just kind of answered it, but I'm curious about how you did manage to mix that sort of tone, and that style of, of realism at time certainly but also surrealism and fantasy and whether or not that's something that absolutely was crucial to telling this story and the San Francisco story versus whatever. Next film, you guys might make together. Is it going to be similar at all in style talking about a hypothetical but is it something that would be similar or would it or was it just the perfect tone style for this think San Francisco? Kind of feels real into real at times. We're products of that. So that's, that's what comes through in our storytelling feel like, you know, some kinda was always it wasn't something like we thought needed to feel like a dream, but it just it does kind of feel that way at times because the way that you. You know, you feel nostalgic for the place that you're from is kind of dream like it's like nostalgia is kind of, like dreaming in a sense, right? Yeah. Because you're, you know, you is remember it in a certain way. So I think that just, you know, speaks to our way of stored showing. I don't know if Joe was it was it more sort of where they're actual tactics that you took approaches to that to, to make that to give us that feeling as viewers, or was it more kind of instinctual as Jimmy suggest. I think some of it's instinctual like some of is you doing it you following your gut as to how to capture the feeling of what like Jimmy said, San Francisco feels like, but I think there are there's a certain like nostalgia that is baked into San Francisco's history. You know, that does feel specific to that place. You read stories of Mark Twain, like a believe in the eighteen seventies going guys nothing like the eighteen sixties gone to the dogs. This was such a fun town in the eighteen sixties. There's a line that. Similar in vertigo, where character sister, Jimmy Stewart, San Francisco's not what was. And so there is this longing for time that came before you or that, you, you know, had maybe I arrived in San Francisco during as the city is changing, and yet. I also think there are very harsh realities that come with that change. It's not just a looking at the past with rose colored glasses were seeing the very people that define San Francisco, the people that fought for it. The people that have helped create the city that we love being pushed out. And so it's I don't think that, that changes just a product of being human and, and longing for the past, and we're really seeing or fearing that we're seeing the destruction of our city. And so, you know, there are certain ways you think about rendering that certain light that you wanna capture and colors, obviously, people, no one of the magical things about the city is its Victorians. And so this film is based around Victorian, I think they kind of captured the imagination for people because they're almost palatial, you know, and they also every. Victorian is different from the last they all have unique detailing that make them feel like individuals. And I think that's something that we don't see in the newer architecture. That's creeping in that feel as Jimmy sometime says, more like shelving. They look like shelving or boxes cardboard boxes. So I think some of that's just inherent San Francisco, but definitely the, the look in the cinematography, I think about that warm yellow glow that you get you notice it early on the sun, you know, kinda bouncing off the water in these neighborhoods. And then, even when I think it's we're in months house. The first time we're in the room with Mont and Jimmy and Jimmy pops his head around a corner. And there's that light the yellow the yellow light right there kind of illuminated him. So clearly something you go we'll and Adam or DP being one of the things that's remarkable by what he did he attend. Ten days of prep on this movie which is an unusually short amount of time and making eve. Even more difficult was we had this very tight shooting schedule. I think one of the first things to go on independent films. Now is the quality of making a world, Phil immersive because one of the only ways to do that is to create extra consistent visual language, which is hard to do with limited time, because you have against all the scheduling conflicts, one of them on our film, was, we just had to no matter how we regard the schedule shoot, some of those early scenes during the ugliest hours of light, which is in the middle of the day, harsh light meeting down on you, especially you know, there's trees. So he couldn't hide from that light. And these are the scenes where Jimmy mantra on the dock and they're waiting for the bus and Maat is sitting in his boat, Adam brilliantly, using mirrors and lights, and let that he built was able to actually embrace that harsh lane and use that to start to define one of the, you know, the part of its visual language, as Phil. So then we're able to apply some of that to shooting the nighttime exteriors, bringing in like you said some of that yellow glow. And I think that just speaks to, you know, his his deep understanding of, of the camera. I mean it gets kind of the film, and in a microcosm, right, embracing that harshness acknowledging also translated into which I it, seems you feel about the city in the in the press notes. I read obviously, we talked about personal is Jimmy. And you've touched on Joe how it is to you as well. But in the notes Jimmy says of you that you were the guy in the neighborhood always making stuff and that your camera was recording. Everything we were doing in the film. We have Jonathan majors as Monto is a playwright, and he's always writing. And he's always observing what's happening to everyone around him. What's going on in the neighborhood? I'm serious. If you, do you see Mont as a stand in for you in some ways, I don't think it's a natural question to ask. But entr. Truth. There's a guy we met early on and making his name, Prentice, and Prentice was just as wonderful unique. San franciscan. So we started thinking about what a friendship between Jimmy, who's quite different from Prentice in the ways of these different from Montgomery, in the film, would be like and, and so he was really the inspiration for the character, and over time that character developed, and I think different friends of ours had, you know, minor influences on on the character, but when we brought Jonathan on, he took this idea of, what this person should be this best friend, Jimmy and he brought him to a whole other level. You know, I think that we Jimmy I share vulnerability real-life with each other. That's part of whether film comes from us being able to share stories with each other, and listen to other. And I think that's obviously in the film as well. But I think that's also there because Jonathan is that as a person, like I watched them become really close friends as we develop this. We brought Jonathan on. And so, you know, I think that feeling in that connection that Jimmy Maher having the movie is just unique to them. Yeah. I, I want wanna ask about that. Sometimes I don't really have a good question to ask. I just wanna say man an actors really good. Jonathan everyone's grade in the cast. Honestly, but Jonah the majors really good at I, I was curious about that, that relationship working with him, Jimmy. And how you did develop that that chemistry onscreen boy, I mean, those just, you know, I think it just took meeting them to meeting one time and spending a lot of time with them. I mean, it seemed when we met him that we had known him for years already. And I think that just came across, and we also had to, you know, he also mentor me this, my first film. So he was helping me a lot like with, you know, basic stuff like getting through, you know, breaking down a script and, and stuff like that and recommend books to read, and, you know. Just teach me a lot of his process. And while also respecting, you know, the fact that I'm a beginner sort of thing, and that this is a personal story as well. So it's a little more than just acting sometimes. So. I think that was very important. We, we had a lot of time to bond in that way. Like I just had breakfast with yesterday. Really? You know, using Atlanta filming for show. So I'm always in contact with him unify get, you know, scripts into me or something, I have an audition. I'll still call Jonathan they helped me run through it, you know. Yeah. So let's great. That's just you know that's just my boy. So I think it just it was only, you know, when cau- action, and it's like, you know, there was never a note that Joe gave us those like act more like friends. Need to do that? Yeah. Yeah. I remember asking the, the safety brothers. They were here to talk about good time and working with Robert Pattinson. Yeah. It's cray. And, and asked them about a moment that Pattinson brought to the screen that may be in the script, you guys just didn't have that in mind at all. And the actor completely surprised you was there a moment like that for either of you opposite Jonathan or directing John. Yeah. They're a few few. Yeah, the, the one of the wonderful things about him. He's both incredibly literary actor who seems to understand the words on the page sometimes better than those of us who wrote it, which is an honor to work with someone like that. But he also isn't afraid of improv, and he embraces, I think, and relishes like those opportunities to get to play as he says, and so one of those comes to mind is news a scene where he crosses the street to interrupt. A group of guys. Who are fighting and picking one guy in particular, Kofi. In the script that was written as Jonathan crossing the street and putting on a strange magic trick as a distraction, which felt fine. But it something about it. I just always felt like there was something more, so Jonathan instead in the film, interrupts them and start, directing them like he's watching theater. And he has very deep background theater. So the names he's throwing out there slots gates, his here. And so, you know, moment really speaks to him it, it's one of the moments of people, I think, often point to his character, it's entirely improv. And I think we didn't even tell the guys that he was going to do that. So they're confusion. What are you talking about? And I think after the first couple takes started realize he's trying to direct them and they start saying things back to him like United director, bro. You know, but it felt like this real exchange happening from that. Yeah. Can we talk about the music a little bit our friend here on the show? Michael Phillips, from the Tribune gave the movie very positive review and said that the musical score is very fine stuff supple and surprising. It's blend of classical jazz, pop strains, it adds to the other worldly quality established and sustained so well by Talbot by the actor. So we kinda touched on that other worldly quality that you were trying to capture visually and you get it with the music is well, that collect kind of mix of sounds between the soundtrack point actual songs popular songs, and, and working with the score. What was your approach there? Whether two different ones for each for the music it was original that a meal most area. Composed. I mean, he wrote the music of my dreams, I always say because I grew up, you know, wanting to make movies as much for, you know, any. Director actor, the music, drew me to them like listen to soundtracks as a kid, my house, last Mohicans, and piano, and Danielle thin, you know, all his music. And so I had dreams of, of being able to make a movie that could justify a score that beautiful. And of course it's heartbreaking thing. You go through, and I make you first movies like me and my brother, did you try to score these small rag tag movies with a big score, and they never quite. Yet there and ends up just feeling like comedic and ironic what you hope would feel emotional. So, but thank God, I met a meal, and he felt a similar way and you know, a meal, and I talked a lot about how this music, had to feel like it was the, the music of deposed prints who've been banished to the outskirts of the city and made this, you know, weekly pilgrimage back to the heart of the get the family thrown back. And so he used brass and woodwinds and I think, you know, he has a background in a band. So he understands you know, also, how to write melodies that you want to sing sticking your head. That feel in some ways, more like pop in the melodies themselves than classical music, or film, score music, but the arrangements felt like old film scores. You know we had a symphony and Budapest that we use for the strings. That, that was important part of this film because you also want to capture the magic of Jimmy's character in this dream to get this house back. You know, you don't want the droning restrained one tone for the score for us. It was always like this music is an important part of grandia should feel. Yeah. Exactly. And then just in terms of the, the pop songs in the film. You know, when you grew up in San Francisco, you grew up on all this music that came out of the city in the nineteen sixties Jefferson airplane Moby, grape and Janice. And, you know, part of that music lives in our hearts, like coming from a more romantic time in the city's past. So we wanted to take those songs that we love and kind of pervert them in the new San Francisco, which is a darker place where musicians are not living in these palatial Victorians in the hate like Jerry Garcia did. And the. Airplane did. But now they're sometimes sleeping in front of those very so that's where that used to that music came from, I don't wanna get bogged down too much influences, because I don't want to suggest that this is dome that anything to any other films or filmmakers, and yet, definitely early on. I felt like I was noticing a lot of Spike Lee elements in the sense, specifically of do the right thing, the personalities on the that wouldn't be was that just in terms of grabbing capturing, you know, the neighborhood and the, the livelihood of it in the people that make the neighborhood what it is, which is very important to this movie because the people, make San Francisco. So the way expected that such a long time ago. Very and then, you know, big, big influence, you know so, yeah. So that's basically. Yeah. Favorite movies that? That's movie. You know, changed my life when I saw really. And another one is, you know, that, that lived, I think that was like required viewing, we always said for everyone that came on herald, Maden. He was has sort of for two things has sort of an unusual depiction of the bay area. Lot of people don't realize the bay area had completely blanked on that. Yeah. And it uses these sort of lesser known locations, not quite as traditionally against tractive locations to create this really beautiful world like it's in the outskirts, a lot of it like San Bruno, you know, surrounding suburbs, San Francisco and, and some areas. So I think that movie open my eyes to how you could show the city that you love and different light. And also every character in that film, this treated with empathy and love. There's this like, hippy loving ethos that, I magic came from how Ashby that was one of the most touching things someone said to us the Sundance, I ran up to us as older man was crying after the premier and he said the spirit of how Ashby lives, and we were with our collaborators, and we all got teary. Grilling, like he's one of our heroes. Yeah. So it is a film, ultimately that does become about wouldn't say just the power of narratives, but the need for narratives individually and collectively and kind of that storytelling element, a lot of films and filmmakers, who got on this path of telling stories about telling stories then kind of turned inward onto themselves a little bit. It's like we know we're making a movie, you know, and we're gonna acknowledged that in some ways, and I never felt like this film was to do them. Again, we're, we're just storyteller. So. We're storytellers we're movie makers, after we're storytellers. So that's, that's the main, that's our main goes to toe store. And I think, you know, there is an element of I mean, you somebody's meta. It's like Jimmy's playing characters version me right scene with his mom played by his actual mother were in some ways watching these things either happened in his life or friends of ours or mine almost reenacted now with large camera and lights and crew, there's something surreal about that future just being on set and watching that happen. But you try to keep it to insider baseball. You know, you wanna make something that you hope is interesting beyond the people that experienced it, but in truth, I don't know that you ever know until you screen it for people you're so in the weeds in those last weeks of the edit you've watched it so many. Times. It's lost the residents that had for you. When you first made it, you're sort of getting into like more technical filmmaking at the end just trying to put the finishing touches on that. I don't know that I quite knew how it would feel to other people, particularly those outside of San Francisco who wouldn't have the same references that we had until we showed it at Sundance, which is both exciting quite scary. Yeah. That wanna close with, our, our quick, film spotting five just rapid fire QNA the last movie you guys both individually or together in a theater that wasn't your own movie, man. Did you like it or not? In the theater. Jeez, I don't remember but I last Washington theatre in the home theater actually watched. Good time, very recently. I think those last one, but I watched it pretty recently. And that's the one that I remember theater Joe but home theater. Favorite favorite and on loved it. Yeah. Most scrape what was washed at two did. Sorry. How did that transfer to the train? Yeah. I'm sure it did. So it was fine. Yeah. What about a movie him? I'm making you revisit your memory, but the movie that you you've loved Sawyer's ago and revisited recently maybe herald Emami on that women love actually, I just did something for criterion. But that film and. Continues to blow my mind Ken Russell. Yeah. My God drawn a blank. But I'm sorry. That's right. Just a couple more this one, this will be a random film or a filmmaker that you love. Ilia kazan. I just watched facing the crowd and. Amazing movie. So when someone says be favorite director or directors who comes to mind favorite director, directors Joe. Talbot. Twenty bucks. Okay. So to more movie movie credit with becoming a filmmaker. We've heard a lot of titles already but one that you look back on. This is where the seed was planted for me to want to do this for me on the waterfront. Yeah. Goes well yeah. Great choices last question than a favorite book about filmmaking. Abella making movies. It doesn't have to be about the technical process. It can be, you know, John sales thinking in pictures or laments making moves it can be just about directors or their careers or a certain film, are there any that you've ever looked to? He's more director Britt, Morlin Brando's auto biography. Really? So I mean that. Yeah. No, but I'm you know I don't really read about directors that much. You know, as much actors sure, sort of thing. But that had to certainly inform you process a little bit. Yeah. I'm not just saying this because I mean Chicago but I do love going back. It's not books Chiel and reading after I watch a movie Everts reviews. Sure. From the period. We all do it the best. Yeah. It's like yeah you can't have one without the other. Right. And I love just the context of gives you that time. And it's always kind of mind boggling. How often he got it right? Yeah. You know as the critics maybe even didn't at the time. Yeah. Yeah. Well. Really appreciate your time, and your insights and really enjoyed the movie and wish you the best of luck with it. Thank you. Thank you so much for having us. Woulda for shouldn't be shipping. Some. My thanks again, to Joe Talbot Jimmy fails and a reminder to our listeners that you can find those full film spotting five lists at anytime by going to film spotting dot net. And just clicking on this at the top of the page, the last black man in San Francisco is opening in Chicago this weekend. It's also playing in select cities. We strongly encourage you to see it not only because it's a very, very good film. One of better films this year. I would say, and it is definitely a surefire golden brick candidate. Josh, that's our show. It is if you want to listen to a whole bunch, more interviews with filmmakers, you could go to the show archives, and find those going all the way back to two thousand five we've got a reviews, of course there as well. And all our top five lists also film spotting dot net. You can vote in the current films spotting poll. We're asking about your favorite non Woody Toy Story voice performance. If you. To order a film spotting t shirt, or any other merch. You can go to film spotting dot net slash shop to connect with us on Facebook and on Twitter, while Adams at film spotting, I'm at Larson on film, and to get that weekly film, spotty newsletter written by producer Sam van Haugen. You can sign up at films funding dot net slash newsletter. Out in limited release. In addition to the less black man, and San Francisco is the movie we reviewed and recommended earlier in the show, Jim Jarmusch the dead, don't die out in wide release men in black international, the stores, Tessa Thompson is stars. Chris Hemsworth, not seen the trailer way too many times to count now and have no interest in seeing it, sadly, despite the fact that those two stars are great really. I think this is. I think this is going to get a night on the Larsen family vacation. I mean I mean, how did Debbie deal with, by the way, not to digress at the end of the show. But how does she deal with the latest avengers movie? Well, not well, watching the kind of non sexy Hemsworth. Yeah. Yes, she was. She was disappointed. She's like, what hours of this white, awhile, I have to say, so I think that's maybe this is going to be a makeup. Okay. Shaft is also out this is I think, kind of sequel to two thousands shaft is Samuel L Jackson as John shaft. And there's also a chef junior, the should just called the movie that played by Jesse t usher late night also opening wide with Emma Thompson, and Mindy Kaeling, who also wrote the movie, I did, miss speak, a little bit on a recent show. I think last week when I said the late night had been pushed to this weekend June fourteenth for its opening. That's true. That's just when it is opening wide though it actually did open a few select cities including Chicago last weekend. Almost went to see it instead of rocket, man. But I didn't listen to you better. Listen to you and I made a mistake next week Toy Story for will review the latest installment Griffin Newman from the blink check podcast. Huge, huge fan of the series will be here. To share with me. Our top five Toy Story scenes film spotting is produced by golden, Joe Dassault, and San Haugen without salmon golden, Joe this show, wouldn't go our production assistant is Andy Mitchell, thanks also to Candice, Griffiths, and the listeners of the film spotting advisory board and special thanks to everyone at WBZ Chicago. Born for Mason is available at WBZ dot org. Music this week is from Bill. Callahan comes from the album shepherd in sheepskin vest. More information is at Bill Callahan dot band camp dot com for film spotting. I'm Josh Larsen, and I met him Kempner. Thanks for listening. This conversation concerns. No purpose anymore. Panoply.
162: Rave retro art, Blood Orange, Britpop cinema and special guest Rhoda Special AKA Dakar
"At farmers insurance we know the sound of perfect hot air balloon landing and a less than perfect one click for more are underwritten by farmer's truck fire insurance exchange and affiliates products available in every state hello and welcome back to big mouth the pub culture talk show for people who think much she bought music film tally and where they're going to store all I'm Andrew Harrison and has ever Sean Patent writer illustrator especially its graduates and pitch the arts with me hollow shot how you doing and have you had a pleasant weak very pleasant thank you. I'm delighted to hear that where you cheered by the fact that the next wchs bomb film has got to have a black female to blow seven in it. Did you see this I saw and yes I'm told steered by. I think about time to why not see Leah Walden and the Telegraph said it's the worst kind of virtue signaling because black people are apparently new and <hes> novelty and and <hes> we haven't had this before yeah. This is why we should never read the Telegraph editor. She's not right remember that he's not a party Leshan Lynch's that'd be bombed. She's going to inherit the double o seven things she gets the mantle she gets the Magic Elixir and then she goes forth. She's different character entirely or something he has to sign on him. He just found staufer appropriate conduct six. I think it's really good. It's terribly exciting. We've got special guests today. The first I is the legend that is row deductor who made a name as front woman with the body snatchers back in the glory of two-tone blazing a trail for female that music that's only now reaching fruition. You might think she's tangled. Nelson Mandela. She survived the experience of making the third specials album the CLAUSTROPHOBIC in the studio in studio the size one word and right now she considers to guest on record and onstage with Old Town madness. She's a patient of the music venue trust and she continues to Gig record with the low tech four bullets at McMaster owed. How're you doing all right? Thank you very much fantastic. We talk about your current work and play at unit a bit later. But what do you think the to sound has been so durable <hes> I think it's more to do with the <hes> partly because it was taken up in America and they did third wave as they called it so there was a reinvigoration there so basically the people who should have packed up and got jobs ended up being in bands in America and kept going which meant they could come back here and keep going because they still the hand in <hes> and then all the people who were originally following two tone had had their children and the children are growing up they had disposable income Scott Raven and so they do they go. I also wear the American pens because looked like they'll look like no doubt they'll look like punks. No you missing the point whereas the suits Guetta heckle whereas the white so to smarten up. Why have you got piercings alcee bit weird to me well in that case let allow me to point in the direction of a wonderful buying called the interrupters PTAs apart from amy the singer who's allowed to be whoever whatever she wants the the other guys in the band did very much follow that kind of you know suits braces <hes> smart a smart smart smart closed basically they followed all of that smart haircuts and <hes> they've kind of broken out of it now and they're doing their own thing a bit more but they very much followed that and they're brilliant? Is it hard to wear a nice of <hes> tonic suit when you're sweating to death in Laguna Beach. That's an aspect of it because gaps manages it when he goes to America so <hes> no I also two-tone was the the thing that kind of gave straight commission to dance. You know you'd never been allowed before and then you sort of get an echoed in a lot of this Larry Ravers like the prodigy and orbital of sampled bits of all two-tone using there's a connection there that I mean all music music and fashion I think thank hand in hand to go forward reinventing themselves as they go along but they also always <hes> take a piece from something that went before and reuse it remodeler and regurgitate it as something new so inevitably there will have been the people who were in those bands were influenced by something that went before so it's not a big surprise one sort of very sad thing that happened in the world of pizza and this was the passing of Franken Roger The beat I only met him once and he was brilliant. It was just a really friendly guy is booking as only just come out as posthumously but what chuck was A. You're covering the thick of it. He's <hes> he was everything that you saw. He does what it says on the tin he was a lovely he was awfully I and if Eddie Party believed in peace loving unity more than here my beat. I'd I'd quite like to meet them. I mean he genuine need to believe that and if fives were bit wrong if he was somewhere in the fives four bit wrong he would just go man of Gogo. It doesn't feel right here he he was he was a lovely man who i. I'm sure he did raise. His voice can't imagine him raising his voice. There was this great beat with ranking Roger Album called public confidential. We talk about on the on the show. lets out now wrote his head throat the show who else we have sharp fantasia mention also welcoming Matt Glaspie Film Right of G. Q. Total Film and the author of Britpop cinema from trainspotting two this is England look Britain's cinema most recent and probably last golden moment. It's just been published. We'll talk about the book and the pros and cons of Brit pop in the pitchers of music a bit later house the British film industry now though that's the pressing question while it's a good question I mean it's always it's always up and down isn't it. I think we've probably polarized in recent years into really big franchises like bond an umbrella tiny sort of things that aren't really going to translate internationally so the book that I've published talks about those films in the middle which I think we're missing. What was the last great which you saw who there's has a question does something really promising was f._m.? Could Gwen Nice dark sort of Gothic Welsh film with beautiful landscapes how to kind of Thomas Hardy feel to it. I'm so that was probably the last thing that really caught my attention. Okay are we back to making brilliant tally in different films could be brilliant. He's gone away but <hes> I think there was certainly a period when we start getting a lot better films in the ninety s and that's where the yeah do you think we've exported our talents much gone elsewhere uh well. I think that's what happened before. I think everyone in the eighties. There wasn't an industry so people Alan Parker Ridley Scott went to America made fantastic Hollywood films but then I think for Awhile Richard Curtis's and are tiny boils state put in the ninety s and yeah. I don't know I don't know about now to bring those people back. We've got those guys come up with some ideas later yeah on this week show as well as talking Britpop cinema with Matt will be turning the tide I t shirt of destiny to attend sweet Khomeini Rave today a it's the Saatchi Gallery's new exhibition inspired by acid house hardcore warehouse parties and all the good stuff. What does it say and are we still in the eighteenth summer of love plus? We'll be looking at Jim. Jarmusch new zone COM featuring reanimated corpses offices in small town America the dead don't die and a low key release from Devante hines. Aka Blood Orange will the laid back electronic R._&_B.. Of Angels Pulse Give You the summer vibes that you require. We're taking a week off next week because of some holes but don't forget to support the show on patron. The crowd funding platform pledges the price of a pint. I E five pounds a month and we'll send you every show a day early. Plus the extra bit little additional big mouth for your amusement and delight pledges. I just two pints and we'll send you an exquisite big mouth Mug as well which is fine for tea coffee or acquaint Hubble bruise. You Align your Shekar on a Monday morning. Such patron big mouth to find out more or we're saying is biased pint so now we're going to talk about you'll Brit pop cinema book and here's the perfect scene setter from that opening scene in trainspotting iggy pop and lost for life what defines Brit pop cinema V._A.. What made you want to write this book? While I mean this is definition I came up with myself oversee. You've got some history into finding the pop music. I don't like to talk to you can mention there so I like to say that I I came up with Britpop Cinema Circa two thousand fifteen which is just the same sort of idea really that we'd look to groups all this disparate music together in this of upbeat ninety s group and actually there was lots of great films Britain at the time. No one had really <hes> written that much about them so instead when you look at it he start with a shallow grave trainspotting the full monty all this really great stuff and it seemed to have a lot in common with the music released the confidence and sort of the Britishness behind that music so I thought interesting to look at it as a group C what having common what what what surprised you about what you just did you dug into these fellas I mean there's commonalities escapism optimism and bright bright colors and also sort of inventive ridiculous rule breaking cinematography us you dig into that you find things that about individual movies that you hadn't previously been a world when I found out some things which I can't even repeat here too litigious assist or no. I'm talking about the text of the film themselves. I think that's a really interesting leap and if you think about our members films in the eighties and thinking that there was a self punishing factor that's kind of realism people sitting around tables everyone depressed raining raining and then suddenly it is true with Danny Boyle actually with beginning with four weddings and funerals than with Danny Boyle taking baton all of a sudden someone to put some fun to the equation which seemed like <hes> you know verboten in British cinema the eighties and all of us an even if some the film's but kind of Faux away actually there's a sense you might go and see them on a Friday night and have a good time. I think it was strangely. Revolutionary Concept that actually is a thing that's income with Brit pop music which was it was music was suddenly allowed to be an supposed to be fun reiner. We'd could we come out of the miserable lumbar puncture world of moaning grunge bands in the rainy Pacific northwest and then next next. It's <hes> you know bled in for tomorrow and that kind of thing and there is an argument of course that tries whilst he was the the worst thing because nobody terrible load of the butlers what what do you what do you think about that well. Let's I mean. Let's not look at. Let's shoot down some of the great. It's a great film it when he stands up people that came afterwards and copy that some of it's brilliant I mean. Sounds like human traffic as a massive debt trainspotting and has actually got also got voice of its own stuff like shooting fish probably not so essential to you know that whenever something original and awesome comes out there's always followers pushes people often different direction. I think what recommendations if somebody wants it lets the weather tends audibly at the weekend for themselves and for a week three or fulfills they obviously transplants transporting <hes>. I think you'd be to miss human traffic. <hes> I love sexy based offering. That's got some of the same pulse I think twenty four hour party people which is a bit later than those films but it looks back at the Foundation Manchester in Indianapolis really kind of wicked playful sense to it so those are three to start with. I'm shallow graves a great film. <hes> yeah yeah actually taking over for a while. Well I thought was remarkable in the book. Was You managed to get a whole chapter. Spice World seems to reflect the just as Brit pop producers loaded great albums a massive amount of groceries wincing just as there's loads of ridicule britpop music this terrible terrible terrible kind of cynical cash spice world is basically the fat les- of <hes> In my defense here it's a third of chapter out of spice points fans and I think while there was so other films that reflects the Britpop ethos also reflect the cool Britannia ethos which is sort of desperately Tired Union Jack flags dragging out the greatest hits of Britain and actually I think spice called a flex very well but what's interesting. It's the assigns in the book which are just absolutely fascinating. I've forgotten the All Saints in film film which is in the spice chapter on my right and things like that's when film went marsh we Melanie Blatt the other one that very Sochi ladies <hes> they'll be in a film. Can they lose. It actually have been proper nine thousand nine hundred sixty five oprah. The pope movie movie L. Living in the same house with Wilfred on everything from pop culture often gets at least part of the blame where we've got now in the in the the era of Brexit and people even told me it's your fault you Brit Pop Mallet Ugo Brexit all down to you and you actually have former loaded editors of Brexit Palsy Emmy Pay Yeah Yeah Yeah Yeah Daubney. Absolutely atrocious individual is brexit party. I may pay now peacocking around like Nick Moran in some kind of tax loads of loads and figure just think the kind of Michael Caine worshiped led to this idea of British exceptionalism did did Brit pop cinema player par driving Britain bonkers well. I don't have the answer to that. One I will say there is a degree of stickiness with bringing an book celebrating pop cinema at this time because he's the inference that you must think that things haven't moved on since then. There's a call to make Britain great aspect which just isn't it all. This is just the films of my teenage years. Look back at our with a fresh eye but I mean certainly there's something in common I mean there's the flipside of thinking that we've got stories to tell stories that are important is people think I think over and fighting the important stories yeah yeah binding all about the war all the time instead of what they should be which is raves and things like that. We'll thing you say the book. Is you think it's the last movie the last big. Could we have another one. Could we have is other sort of move into almost a post Britishness as as brexit chews up all the goes too fast. Could we financially I don't know but could we practically absolutely in the problem with looking back at coordinate is that you imply that there isn't going to be another one and it's just because it was great and he was seventeen well. We'll know think there's always good stuff coming out as you find out on this podcast and so we went around the corner just won't look the same I'll be too old to the extrovert laser is that we choose our favorite pop cinema movies so hold tight for that country and backers. You're doing a talk of the A._F._l.. If that's right to talks actually I'm introducing the film on Monday. The twenty second that's Monday nights and then on the twelfth of August. I'm going to talk through more generally about escapism Brit pop cinema writing the book and that's on the twelfth of August around seven o'clock introduction in full trainspotting Cowboy Iraj my skinny fit t-shirt gone. Maybe there was some accents. We'll see how the in the garden especially because Scottish people in the audience now never let it be said we're in thrall to the past. No no no no no no. Let's go back even further to nine thousand nine hundred eighty eight and all that with the SACI galleries rave inspired exhibition sweet league. Tommy Rave today clues in the title it promises an immersive retrospective exhibition devoted presenting a revolutionary survey rave culture through the voices and lenses of those who experienced it Cheryl Garrett ex editor of the faces of the people who've helped curate the exhibition but does it bring back the heady Aromas of forty thousand people dancing to homeboy hippie and funky dread off their body not in a car with no proper toilets and what's an elevated rotating upside down car got to do with anything. Let's find out after suitable suitable mood setter one chosen by our resident Billy Armfield Andrew Harrison Niche Flashbang so here's the future sign a London with expenditure the Rhoda. I just there about the car underneath the Houndstooth. We you a secret raver. Who is our secret RAVER? Well I mean I was I did a bit. I mean to be honest bit well. I'm not good with the no proper toilets so if there are no proper facilities. I'm not very good I I I did for while live in the midland so I have experienced the idea of getting flyer driving to Kelly services on the line and then get in the phone call and then driving into Birmingham in a long convoy finding finding the room and then and hearing the whole thing power up that was probably a bit late to the party in because I was a grown up but it was the time when <hes> adapts killer was right. This kid was the big choon and that's what that's what the rive open to saw off you start with this. It's going to be good. I see so yeah I I did. A bit okay drove people around because I was the call designated driver yeah it does not drive so yes designation but that's fine so designated dancer in our so what were you expecting from this and what did you think the first couple of rooms and we're not quite into to the experience when we go into a gallery is being set up what was expecting. I mean two things really fascinated. One was the beetle that was in a glass case. I think don't think it was meant to be there. I was just thinking gained muscle should not tell them it's going to eat. All the stuff is no. I'm not going. There's a live Beta. I missed a special one to explain to anyone who hasn't seen the exhibition there are lots of flyers aren't there and sort of tiny bits of paper that could be easily destroyed by this was actually a glass case this stuff that you weren't even supposed arch it was it was encased in glass and there was basically didn't tell them simply because I well I mean Tory territory territory basically in my mind cross the picket line to go into. I never do anything Salty Tori Tori because the Ravers poll stains of now gaito folks as a prompt former rave from own too so that involves you know entrepreneurialism yeah no no I appreciate and I'm not so cool and the Raves I went to are really enjoyed and I really enjoyed. I mean not just enjoyed the kind of energy itching situation and then go into this and it's like lots of pictures of people in fields and okay and that was if I'm on the car and who the hell drove a lotus then the exhibitions exhibits that you say is a Lotus upside down revolving while a new piece of music by Milo plays put it on the instagram page people if you want to see it I quite liked that I liked the all solved incongruity and mad foolishness of putting upside car next yes a pace as a piece of as a piece of moving sculpture. Yes it was absolutely fine but then I was thinking about hang on what's the point of this and I looked. It's a it's. It's not a car that anybody I knew already. I'd never saw a car like that. Arrive arrives so I'm just thinking you know that's kind of a weird make on it and then I looked a lot of Peter's okay <hes> there were there were some interesting things. Essentially you know what really really dream in music was thought all the spotify of other communities fake record shop fake real selling records in China this record brat so I was looking through them but I mean it's a mixture of newly commissioned all works on memorabilia business this kind of <hes> perspect- petrol pumps signifying the beginning of the evening a- All south okay. It's all I'm saying all Irish ready to see our wasn't really ready. Somebody's fly collection. Both those is really interesting because I was looking at things like gone to that. Now my eve yourself out to be a bit of a Brit pump guy the secret spiral tribe guy well. I'm a tiny bit too young for this. I'm also nowhere near cool enough together for the time so my recollection of of the same was by the time they're going to clubs was much more realized soon so I don't remember but this aspect of it. I did love the approach I loved the Litter Petrol Station with all the numbers on it and then you get into it completely dark room and there's a big fence and this way in quite some time to work right. You have to go through the fence. There's a really nice touches. Yeah then a lot photographs. Might you say is something to be said for those I loved it was a lady called her name. <hes> <hes> VINCA pizzas. Retiring and there was something about that sort of breathlessness goes off with seven so went to Holland all the stocks all handwritten. Isn't it my favorite after all these amazing she'd been descend but not three got pleurisy Z.. Down with the people there was a dizzying level of information and also it was weird. It was like someone's come up and talk to you in just two zero off going to do this and I felt very authentic to me Angie Angie. I'm imagining that you were having a go on the road and three Oh threes which disgusted around one of the rim which also had the spotify playlists on it spotify playlist genre by genre. There's a make your own acids playstation. Three's NATO Acheson twiddle the KNOBS. I realize hard to make decent acid houses. I made a good one. I send you the recording recordings class or even go three. I'd like I really really liked. The mixture of newly commissioned are memorabilia. I thought that there's there's a there's a kind of an installation based rounds. Seth Troxler is on the music and it's kind of you surrounded by screens with flickering images only of nature <music> only of trees and twigs and leaves and all the rest of it so when I got the sense of being losted Bush who hasn't wanted to be lost in the Bush surrounded by dry ice and lasers <hes> there's a kind of a hammock thing in which <hes> t._v. screens all in laying where human beings ought to be on the TV screens. I thought very amusingly up producing some very very retro Fratto Art man read the facto art of the magic. Is You know what they can do it on computers now they can crank on computers mind-blowing says that you your magic is when I thought that I really well with the flyers all of which contain like ikat of early computer graphics. It's a robot. You might meet a robot if you go to this motorway service station full of love features lots of two thousand eight staple features a lot of people early days of wide look. We've made a three D. Y.. Frame Banana and it costs four million quid isn't that amazing because it was amazing and it was looking into the future not peaceful optimism caller stupidity of it. I think it was really really affecting a killing US laughing. You can disagree with you. I actually I don't disagree with you. I mean the fact is if we're to to sort of bring in Brit pop. I mean this whole thing. There was not futures business six in the sixties not was that was built on. I mean the jetsons you know everything in the film but You understand the iconography don't use sculptures and the Globulin of the the the kind of the artifacts rather have gone so I mean I thought was what I really enjoyed. What I find a bit difficult with the study of Rave is when it becomes racers what I wanted to Jin stroking? Thankfully it was less of that than the walls of the kind of Abia Sicilia's well. I thought was really good about it. Is it's not about celebrity so you've got yet bloody Pete Tong spotify but actually got loads of them and you're almost expecting from the they've got their own fry the SARCI that that's going to be the beloved the army bit drew me tonight and you can see the happy Mondays in a pitcher. You're not it's about power the people it's about people turning up at these things and I thought that was really good and yeah I agree with road. I just feel a bit funny about it. Being at the sake gallery I think the two things don't mix and it see maybe more of a museum piece than an art show more that as you're saying that display of memorabilia bellyache Israeli what it's about it's been shown to people who didn't really participate a lot of the people around me on that when I went to see what what was it of kings roads so the cultural exploration recycle kids when I went a different didn't understand a little bit short on you know as experiences go now used to secret cinema and punchdrunk fair to levels of various military food and just putting up a little tiny fences really bothered but I did. I wasn't used by the Bartlett gigantic against Psychedelic bouncy castle that has been taken around the world to bring some joy into the lives of underprivileged children in Wilton pulse there. I loved it. I thought it was beautiful but what I especially love to his little signs saying jump so this is a massive as they said it wasn't a massive at all it was it was somebody looking through can't it through kind of sterilized lens but I mean I have to say when they wanted to stamp my hands to go in and I did refuse. They said Oh you have to start your hand. That's why rave sorry boy Junkin on hand so I said No. They said well we. Why do you have to do that where we can and put it on a piece of paper? I said well you better do that. Then says pretty on a piece of paper I wouldn't I'll have to do have to say I I taught are desperately looking and see if there was another person of color in there because sometimes I you know those are the things that yeah. She's got all used to people coming in here at all and no is the answer because I was asked to show my ticket. When nobody else was from one part to another so yes could also yes yes you you? You came home with everything I expected. Pastas well so apart from road anyone else would recommend this to a friend. I enjoyed it. I think if you're a you're an old old raver you will be you get an awful lot of mission factor of this. I'd say for a few youths in the being amused by an kind of. Did you really do that as a family dot was showing the look but we didn't do drugs Kush. Didn't oh no it's. It's it's worth going to but I do think that this kind of the major major historical statement is about to be. Did you see anyone you knew in in because I was looking for. I was looking very hard. I look people in New England. I must say I did actually say something but yeah it went on as far far as the recent extinction rebellion exactly so I did say I mean you know there was demos the on the art she saw so so an econ think oh hang on a minute. Let's up today. I was kind of a bit weird I shot the music is the most important okay well speaking of music that was talking and we're going to talk a little about her current work with the low tech fall and unheard glorious illustrious history and in the world seater road the bottom such is now the starting from the grassy with the this is the new a strong woman pop music here. We go who the president will thirty back in the day. I really remember them being unfair to us. I mean I think there was <hes> one of our first pieces in sounds there was a they took a picture of me with fish islands and underneath put the very lovely road Nikon thing. Okay take him taking the name of it. I mean I didn't mind you know but it was kind of like that <hes> because there were seven of us because we all turned up on mass because we shouted until we got what we wanted. We didn't really you didn't really notice what how it could have been. You know so I think because it's fairly strong personalities and we did have this policy of <hes> minimum of two people pull for any interview. People couldn't be few themselves. I'll say more about that. It was it was about making sure that the message girls that people didn't get there get to grind their own axes. If as it were yeah I wanNA talk about the legendary spare interview value now so yeah we didn't. I don't know how we got on reflection how we got treated. It didn't seem that bad but then what did I have to compare it with yeah. You didn't ask the body starts ashes were going can send you to actually get around to recording a full album but you recorded the volley Sanchez album yourself. A couple of years is the last album is co taught by what what did you do that. What did you did? You did it because people ask me about about once a month to all. It's never what you do. The album I mean the things they say that the the are hated was one when you can get the girls but together so first of all is like the women I think is what you mean gene <hes> and then the second was to recall now so I did that. It was the thirty fifth anniversary of to tone. I thought what can I do because I'm out the thirtieth by during music that had influenced to influence to tone and then so the thirty fifth I thought well let's Redo the album and then maybe they'll leave me alone. I'll made so <hes> yeah I mean there are plans to relaunch with some extra tracks for the fortieth as well so famously. You're on the specials third great Boulton quite an ordeal album in the studio aren't you. The one that seemed to take forever was was associates quite quick by today's on the stone roses czyz contemporary timetable. Let's not long. It was an ordeal yes. It was a lot of an ordeal. was I mean it wasn't it wasn't fun. I'm trying desperately to remember. There must have been fun point. She put my finger on one. I've never listened to the album. It is quite good. You know I'll never know tracks are can compare accan- account listen to it's just the horror because I ended that. The last recording session was me sitting on the flo weeping saying I can't sing that line again. A taxi was cold. I left and I never been good Lord. <hes> well you know if you can still look at it and give stiff drink down yeah but it is a good record and sounds like racist Frederick quite they're very now. I mean they are. Ah You know. <hes> it's all about you know you mustn't talk to your mom. You mustn't talk to your friends or your mom and dad and I didn't write lyrics so you mustn't talk to your friends or your mom and dad and just don't ever have anything to do them again. What actually dialogue is what changes people's minds not just ignoring the more sticking them under under the stairs you D._J.? A LOT ON UTAH with the low tech four toes what low tech for all about well the low tech for is just the the current name for the band is always banned after your latest album so <hes> yeah I taw I'd much this year but <hes> yeah hopefully we'll be on the road a bit more next year. Yeah I mean I just I'm. I'm still writing. I'm still recording <hes> still WANNA put music. They'll still got something to say. <hes> it's just about finding the happy medium trying to really find the vein of of what I want to say that kind of is all you know ideas a disparate but I mean that's okay. We're fine. We're finding our way musically and that's kind of what you have to do. With a bit of of what went before of reinvention of what went before and new stuff which is some of it is like the all stuff some of it's completely different I mean at Christmas we did <hes> we did a gig where we were our own support. So the first set was all the tunes that we can't normally play in our kind of a more high energy set so it was kind of down tempo staff and the jazzy staff so we did that as all support set and then we did our more kind of high energy set as the as as the as the headliner so that was kind of weird. We're GONNA play a truck now. What is this comfort zone? What's this all about comfort? Zone is actually a tune. I wrote a long time ago and <hes> just her her redone. This is the third re reincarnation of this too and it so it kind of does lie. You know there's not too acid jazz in there and things like that <hes>. It's just about tonight comfort zone. It's about <hes> even think are no think not really remember. I know there was an intention in the first place as time goes on I suppose it's about dreaming and about funding your own space. We'll hear from <hes> rotates time with the low tech full comfort zone GEICO the sticky with Music Devante Hines Aka Blood Orange seems to work at prince like rates recording continuously and releasing only bits of what he makes as appendixes to the proper releases after the problems come. Do you see you see how it works now. He's decided to put it all anyway. In the form of a mixed tape. There isn't really an album and yet somehow is what's going on in the world of the artist formerly known as light speed champion. Now Co writes as Rocky Cholerae Jepson blondie. Am Kylie is the first truck from this mix tape. It's called. I WANNA I WANNA see you. Oh that's all I wanna see you with a C under you. From angels working like Prince Means. You'RE GONNA spell like Prince's well road or what have you been following him on top of him I wouldn't I wouldn't say I was following him but then also Sameera Reddy. Oh Oh is that always done. This is done I mean I was very impressed with all the kind of collapse in the stuff on a main I've heard of all the people which is pretty good for somebody of my advanced years <hes> yeah it was. It was kind of for me. It was like ambient music. It was the music you listen to in the chill out room at the rave in much opposed Franck Ocean world of flow teal and structured are as electronic textures. Yes it was I mean back in that respect. I love. I really really enjoyed I once I loved it but I really enjoyed it and I listened to while I was doing stuff because it wasn't the economy's demanded you full attention. I didn't fail yeah you sort of get the idea that your sort of wandering through his memory policy Joseph Dunn needs to and I really liked the fact that everything's like a minute and a half all the things like three minutes isn't the things of cuts off abruptly and you're into something else. It does feel like <hes> you know. He's right to call it a mix tape and it's not a big coherent finished thing I mean you stay on top of the world of this kind of stuff. You know the the way that kind of black American music and brought blackberries music of absorbed avant-garde electronics as well as the seventy tradition well through the medium of my some the D._J.. The D._J.. French Hamilton part one half of Sue Kesse the <hes> the House D._J.. I mean essentially through through here. I hear a lot of new stuff and have done for a long time. which is how I found myself in Shangri Laura Glastonbury this year listening to Archie Hamilton <hes> you know and being surrounded by people who were all at least twenty years younger than me and I did did fill for a moment? I thought ooh actually know who this guy is. I know that Choon that many played it shows oh yeah yeah. I know this one. You know so. It's kind of weird you can't i. It's a weird space to be our main. I I am really into continue music. I Love Music and I love New Music or love new challenges so yes two years ago Glastonbury I was I was big you know boy was the best thing for me at Glastonbury 2017 closely followed by Canine now so yeah I love growing because it feels like punk <hes> it just it has a black element in that <hes> there's the thing that matters to black people lose. You know kind of how you look a lot more <hes> so it wasn't isn't dirty. It was like very it's very clean very fashionable very stylish very cutting edge but I mean that's always been fashion. It's been always been the two you know. I just feel like you know black style and the L._G._B._T.. Community but basically gay men unbutton black men have been the forerunners of of kind of style quite often in British culture so you have a kid twenty odd years. Make sure it tends to be a D._J.. Then you'll stay on top of things what am I doing wrong. uh-huh what did you think of <hes> angels pulse by by Blood Orange. Well I mean to to to start with really really enjoying it actually walk around at some risk summary Sinti slighty sketchy fill in comedy pin it down so I thought Oh this is great. I am going to really enjoy having a few listens to this and then as it goes on she said is sketchy. They are half finished and nothing really rises above a certain tempo. What do you may not have this? Did you have an album that whenever anyone comes around you know it's safe. If anybody ever came to visit me I would never do so yeah changes throughout the back fifteen years and it's massive attack. Nobody hates it not to not who I pay. This all felt like that to me. I thought I knew anyone that I could put this on and they go what the hell is that in that way but equally I don't know anyone that would blow their mind so sort of pleasant background listening that seems damning with faint praise but but the is it's actually quite sort of strong strong political statements here about church bombings in embarrassing and some strong material here but it sort of in this kind of hazy semi distant sort of soup of stove. That's Birmingham's track five is quite a while. Oh before <hes> voiced that distinct voice had distinct voice comes through and you can actually imagine this about something. That's what I was getting anyway to me really ages to to think that there was something more going on one of the things I like about it was in a world where every record is kind of brutally driven ribbons who provide a load of single poppies now you know it was not a singly almost as well not bother with it. I liked the kind of dog did bloody minded refusal to have any songs in these songs. You know it struck me as kind of if you took it's a really short thing as well as about half an hour long talk these what are they doesn't in tracks and sprinkled them in the middle of playlist of something else that he actually would have what it what it's really for which is to be just don't mind diversion before we go back to concentrate on things Sean. What did you think I mean? I agree in some senses. The song is just getting going and you got the hook and it stops and you think what we're doing is like Sufian Sufian Stevens Kendrick Lamar together in a kind of indirect ways very polite sort of sounding <unk> sounding at first but it's got that beautiful Kendrick Lamar string bed I swear that gold teeth which I really love on the album as the same string headquarters Pacific state by the way states I ended up single over the top in my kitchen like light road or I did lots of things while listening to you can almost forget it's going on same thing one of my points though is that the problem is going on in the background as the mind wanders and there's a point and especially in a song called happiness where his range is so similar similar to Jermaine Stewart's of we don't have to take our clothes off fame. I could not get Janine Stewart out my head and thinking he doesn't own this dimension Nath eighties and this is someone who's deeply cool but yes the mind is going all sorts of places but I love the fact is mix type. I love the fact that it's not an album album and it's it's thoughts in its notes and things and I thought that was absolutely bloody. Incredible more people maybe should go down. That route. Just sounds refreshing yeah I would. I think mobile should be made to do this. I would like to hear you you know the notebooks of interesting artistes yeah. I'd like a Demo e way where you hear the intro being done again yeah special edition cd all of a sudden. She likes stream aim of consciousness way of working. I I yeah I really like the style of it. Well listen popstars do more of this often cello on as well you hear all the stuff in bed shallow okay. If you like big mouth under the podcast you might like be there with Dali loudspeakers. It's all about the minds behind the music and we produce it in calibration with Dolly who make absolutely amazing speakers that look and sound beyond description this new episode out this week and Sean is on as well big mouth regular sophie the Harris we're talking about our favorite few nanoseconds of pop those tiny little moments that absolutely blow your mind plus a studio heroes and here's a snippet of Sophie talking about hearing have favorite album of all time properly for the first time through those fantastic all these speakers the record is the white album by upcoming Liverpool set who gets on the White House search be there was Dolly on your favorite podcast APP to get the full show and don't forget to subscribe I mean I wasn't surprised surprised because I knew the speakers we're going to be amazing and it's a mind blowing album but yeah it was wonderful to hear it that way and actually what was interesting from a kind of geeky point of view is the I've listened to it on really lovely headphones but it's it's it. It's just not headphones album in that way and listening to the speakers because the speakers worked with the space. That's in the room you there's a degree of isolation of of each of the elements that I loved. I think we all really. We noticed as well <hes> the way that the drums came out and that they're kind of quite crispy and mentally in a really interesting way one wall up do they don't do well in my fantasy. World will love listening to that on purpose because is i. I felt a bit like I was in the control room like as close as you're going to get to being in the control and we're going. Oh Yeah a little bit. Higher in the mix pool is a friend of show Sophie Harris their search be they with Dolly on your APP or on the old-fashioned Internet. If you'd like to get the full show don't forget to subscribe ascribe right moving on we always ask our guest to bring in tune to inspire and since I was terrified the listeners clasby what have you got flora's picks surface which is the opening track from Anju beds new album. My finest were yet. We've other show before somebody else does does this tell us about Andrew Bird and why is interesting as a Detroit multi instrumentalist but much more fun than that sounds a fan for probably since about the turn of the millennium when he used to come over and play concerts and the thing is he writes great songs so that's all there you see him live and back in the day before he had a band he would play the violin he whistle who played blocking Spiro Play Guitar and sing beautiful voice need loop himself said hey this amazing band life or five instrument play by the same guy and anyone who sees them live is a fan for life even if they don't have the albums but actually the album's a great he's literates as well as this is not the only truck that alludes to myth memory literature and stuff so he's been accused of being precious switchover thank you could you could argue that case but also it's quite nice to have something with wordplay cryptic crossword fail to it's not all about you know boy meets girl and emotions this you know he's talking about sece's whenever you ever heard the word more and May W in a pop song I mean all of this stuff so yeah. Let's listen. This assistance by Andrea bed stone's tone stole from the precipice. Did he visited finally the movies. Jim Jarmusch is the godfather of American indie cinema. A Proper Ota who's down by law mystery train on coffee and cigarettes cemented did an entire genre of oddballs American misfits monitoring to themselves about the small details of their lives. So what the hell is he doing making Zombie movie in the dead. Don't Die Jarmusch Lights out for Jorge Romero territory with close of a Neat Bill Murray and Adam driver a small town cops Tilda Swinton as a Samurai funeral director because why not and a parade of Cameos. It's any good his a taste is planned to inform people about the Zombie danger before it gets I guess so because we passed farmer Miller's plays a little while ago. We need to inform inform him. Fuck farmer Miller okay my us together. How the fuck you kills me? Slow down a second clue. You gotTa Kill the head. Kill ahead decapitate. The only way to Jesus get prepared. That's unfortunately only shit. I got this. Mike lost meet. Our film chop. Wood is what does SHAMU FIT in. He sees I subside suspected director more admired than watched. Yes I mean he's here. He's very much and the people that love really love him. It's fair to say probably hasn't troubled the mainstream too much as possible to get your entire film life without seeing his films but has lost released only lovers left alive was absolutely beautiful and about vampires but Tilda swinton and at that thing that aims cool normally mrs by so many miles and actually felt ready coal if felt really really wanted to live through the night with them. Tell US sets up that don't die forest. Tell us what's happening on what he thought. It's as a cinematic achievement smalltown America we've got Bill Murray and Adam driver and clarisse avenues Cox which is in Dream Team is completely peopled by famous indiactors Steve Shemi IGGY pop turns up you can sort of fill then the rest of your favorite. The reser is the U._P._S. U._P._S.. which this Danny Glover's in their selena Gomez it's a hell of a cost say anywhere this Zombie outbreak as we've seen many times before and and the cops have to deal with as we've seen many times before and I've got to say I wasn't a massive fan fair like so it was going for cookie Kinda funny and it was going for a little bit of horror which before Shaun of the dead mice seems like an original combination but I was fifteen years ago and there was don't be land ten years ago and there was the entire flood of Oh? It's Olympic cookie accommodate this Gore all these terrible films that came out after Sean boy eats girl. That's a title island film a great title but not to members act so we've seen this film many many hundred so. I don't know what Jim was thinking. Thinking all bring some sparkle of Indus- to it and also there was a very half-hearted from the thing I don't WanNa give any spoiler away but at one point I'm driver and Bill Murray turned to each other and go was that supposed to happen and the other one says it wasn't in the script that I it was maybe the whole script and then we're back to the movie as if a hang on the whole ninety minutes you're saying it doesn't matter they just access and that such dangerous ground to be and you have to announce the you're GONNA bright this fourth wall. It's going to be fun. You can't just how people talk about the script because why are we bothering believing in if you do that then you really need to go balls out with it. Don't you make it's central to the movie capitals in confusing the pace is incredibly slow and you can do that. You know on the focus on oddball characters. That's totally you know my my limited experience. That's totally clean him. You know I understand the fascination of of small town America but it's so slow and seem so lacking in a reason to make this movie anything all looking for anything to sign up from well America's bit way it isn't it I just found it so incredibly frustrating and ultimately <hes> a little bit annoying actually have you kept me here for an hour and a half two hours to say what we're one of the things that zombies dues went once they're in full flood is that they mutter the thing that thereafter like coffee was Xanax a why why funny to think okay I get your point him but George a Romero is saying this exact same thing in the mid seventies saying we come back come back to the mall because that's what they know and that seemed like a revolutionary sort of critique then but in how is that really the best. You've got for this film well. The kind of the position of the George Romero's Zombie is that they are like. I'm an analogy to society L.. Holding up a mirror to what we are our own sickness our own decay our own obsessions with things in front of it. He seems to be completely stock Thir- anything to do with the Zombie that was unusual new different all in any way revelatory that just eluded special effects on the opportunity for for Gaga it something else that really annoys big horror film Fan. It was a period of the nineties before the Internet when horror films they pass the names of famous director through the film to Oh that's Clive Barker. You know the postman and people that neither genre would watch it and get like a little eastern but a bit late for that now because of the Internet. There's one moment that someone turns to another character says oh I love your car. That's Very Jorge Romero and you're like why are you called attention to the guy that made these films sometimes forty nine hundred sixty nine is at night of the living dead at age ago and you're calling attention. That's funny if you've called attention so much better than what you really desperate road. Are we have a different opinion. Did you have anything like a different opinion. The united actually swallow my pride once again cross the picket line down to the ritzy and <hes> climate. I Riley just genuinely thought I'll never get that time back again and the only interesting thing one thing made me laugh which is when the kids said eat me. No I mean that's just because I like kids playing a lot kids swearing beim rude. Maybe laugh. It's the only time aloft I have to say and and then the this oh terrorists and character are made like that because it was mad because it was mad but it was kind of Saab any any author of Blonde Woman with <hes> Samurai swords remind you of anything it was transplanted from any one of a dozen kind of cult movies and I was I was perfectly happy with that because I thought it was going so my but without spoilers you know the of movies like this rest on. How are we going to explain all the stuff? That's happened before an apart from a a good gag about poll all the fracking bringing the dead back to life. The film just ends Sean will do you think well have seen a couple of Jim Jarmusch films. I'm not an Aficionado but I know to expect not an amazing plot. Not Lots of jump cuts. Lots not lots of course processing. It's GONNA be quite slow if you're seen deadman thinks that they're very very slow and the start of the credits is just it keeps coming up obviously but the cost is just a list of some cool people don't think that you know more and more I think you've got another person a just and so I actually enjoyed it far more because I thought from the Credit God another call Costa Vinnie all these people. It's a bit like bill and Ted's excellent adventure without him Dr being indeed yeah. He's he's. The comedy isn't he and Adam driver is the thing that is driving it. He's got the funnier lines I went to Mexico. I really like Mexico. I've been there twice so every says he's always it's going to end badly. I thought that was quite funny. I thought he was the one that was magnetic their points about it which are good. It's funny but it's difficult when everything happens in films nowadays every other film has lots and lots of plot and you've got something that is using these old tropes and trying to say something different than we're really not sure that is what I found find interesting and weird and possibly unintentional was the fact that close of any as the female cop is the only one who's genuine yet mindy. She's the only genuinely genuinely touched by the horror of what's going around. She's cheating. which is reacting to the fact that there are yes cannibalistic living dead Zombie reverence wandering around in Centerville and everybody else is just completely blank on it? They might as well these themselves that I thought that was something that could have been away but something in that because this this is sort of autism in the body movie is between Bill Murray and Adam driver the something interesting there but yes he doesn't Jim Dummies. Just doesn't explore things he just shows you and you don't ever get maybe this is what we need is the depth behind that. Can we have the second engrossed. Can someone else please write a strong suspicion that the driving impulse behind this Bill Murray and drive a really cool Zombie killing scene and it's just a great big sort of celebrity dead Pun and deadpan. There's two elite both it. Just looks like nobody can very flat also not enough zombies. Do you think the final scene where he's the final battle we know the final twenty or something that that is none coming in the horizon. I thought the couldn't employees me you run out of money. Is that in the script. I thought well this just not that. It's small town America. They don't have many dead. There's every navy over by that. I think first of for for a change of strongly recommend people not going so completely. I'm still of the ilk of at least he's up there having a movie go. Hey Lazy Lazy Yeah have you have you have seen it though I've got to say I thought the resolution of the Tilda Swinton Ninja hotline was one of the most insultingly stupid things really anyway. That's the end of the show on a massive downer. Let's finish it on a happy with closing time Schatzer. What will I guess be discussing over Lucas Eight on a couple of Dennis? It's the Nazis in a disused carpet factory someone Colville in Leicester Road. What's your closing time shelter for the show is actually not Colville anyway mark later time charter is about the fact that we had the cricket World Cup? I mean the the men one creek well cut. We've won it five times. Now Women's won it four times just want once you know that's just not not concentrate on that now. It's the notion of having big <music> a big sport and sporting events mostly on pay per view TV and I just think that disconnects people from the whole experience are just. I'm really not a fan of <hes> big sporting events. It's being behind pay walls. I think it's a real shame because you have to go and search you have to be in search of them because when they actually put it on terrestrial TV for the final so many so many more people tuned in and if you're actually trying to do you know of <hes> pedal sport as a way out of <hes> the nation's obsession with sugar and not getting any exercise. You have to make those available so I think all sports I would rather the say big sporting occasions all be available on terrestrial TV but I mean I suppose sky have helped fund football and things I don't really care about football so that's fine but <hes> because football will be fine anyway and it's not because they don't care about football is because I care about the notion of <hes> football can football will be fine. It's all the out the spoils that just don't get look and it was interesting that that's <hes> they. The paper started saying England men when the World Cup previously what does that England won the Welt another showed say England men yeah well they have to because women have already wanted four times. This is their first league football as well <hes> Glaspie. What's your clothes while it's about a true Karm offer called Paul Harrison who this week his <hes> part of his his mistake is that he's a kettering detective spoke to Ted Bundy and he spoke to Peter Sutcliffe and he was there reggie craze deathbed anyway? He's made a career for himself out of out of this true crime and this week and I don't want to impugn his good name. Some of this has been cast doubt upon about whether effectively amounts risen from kettering police dog handler to sort of behavioral profiler. Would I have met the most famous irrecusable time would have received a deathbed confession from Reggie Kray wasn't famously into policemen any worse but that people are just questioning actioning worth of this whole thing is exactly as it's been punished. His book has been withdrawn from sale while the public show sort of gets the head around exactly what's happening. It's been a lot of hyperbole live up to a moving out of the limelight for now and who complainant so they're gonNA get in touch with Reggie Kray for this thing deathbed confession. It's really great way to get an exclusive because it was so it's a deathbed confession that someone you can't liable because there were lifelong criminal and the dead thanks so that was off the record so what doesn't make the leap from police handler and kettering two trusted F._B._i.. And that's what this achieved in his career and that should be the point of the story rather than what was trim what was not because that's a hell of a rise absolutely sure what's your closing South Africa's well. Would you believe it. There is a statue has been put up to Melania trump in her hometown of spending cotton Slovenia and looks like to all intents and purposes of Balsa Wood statue made by three year old. Maybe it is focused or outside their husband did it. I don't think it would have been so flattering in a wonderful blue dress. She does like she's almost is made out of plasticine as well an isolated. I think it's wonderful. It looks amazing. She is holding her left hand. She doesn't even go to hand this is the blue bit above some sort of field full of potatoes or something like that out into the Wilderness and it is the most wonderful thing I'm maybe we have more statues like this. It would sort of take that it would be no take people down. A pack really may need it. It's very very naive. I'll isn't it's little kid by a total turner surprise three time winner. I think it's the latter is facing. This is we're looking at essence of Malania drilling stripping away everything the very core of <hes> yeah very central European you know a creature of the woods creatures awesome well relation of Yes. It looks like it looks like a toy. A kid was given in about eighteen. We've played with a daily basis to it. You know and yet evil. The thing that is key is you make a curse on somebody but so imagine if every country decided to do donald trump statue in this kind of feel and if we had some of the Tory party maybe Nigel farage might work the these these these powerful people house listeners now sean has around. What do you make a House of Commons in kind of Wickham and style? You make little effigies of each M._p.. That you can then you the cursor the last twenty twenty now she's GonNa go on retreats on Sabbatical in my closing some chapters the rehabilitation of Florida man really long piece in the Washington in Post. This is a brilliant brilliant piece about the Florida man phenomenon not just really because it's interesting. I can't believe they was so bloody long you I mean you if you're not familiar with the Florida Florida Man <hes> thing it is the idea that every day there is another insane story which begins Florida man from Florida and tries to pickled prostitute while driving special needs school bus to Florida man tries to reclaim his crock from by wrestling and actual crock all this kind of stuff. It's like the idea that Florida is a uniquely uniquely insane repository of American witness. This great story does is it's points out that if you had to substitute the words homeless person with serious substance abuse problems you'd see these stories at tragedies comical you know the the in the cruelty the of the Internet the story the stories of Florida shed all over the place where I wasn't it funny what these these deprived and unhappy people are up too so the story kind of looks at people who are trying to reclaim the best Florida man about his refusal to conform his ability to <hes> sees the Diane. Do the crazy thing you may have seen the famous picture of a guy in no shirt no shoes and just a big pair of shorts head banging at holding an American flag in the middle of Hurricane Matthew while slayers rating blood plays that is the best of Florida onto start out. It'll hurricane initiates the American flag playing sleigh and refuses to be defeated by an actual hurricane so we'll put this on the facebook page for the show is really interesting on not just the madness of Florida but also how people sort of accentuate and pick pick it out because it's a proxy naturally for their feelings about poor people and minority people and people with drug issues surrealism as well so there's a game you play where you put your birth Dayton and then you put Florida Mine and I got my quite light Florida awarded order the settlement after police mistake doughnut glaze for math in this story because as the guy for the Washington Post says many increasingly Florida man stories attorney it got to be tales of miscarriages so this guy getting the math when he's money for so it's a positive Florida man stories so let's for Florida Man Show Florida woman is just this is all right too. I'm uh I'm GonNa Start Giving in Florida want to see what she's been to anyway. That brings us all to the end of the show road maps. Thanks for coming in rory play next coming up of they'll stuff coming out. Where am I planning some teaching at Broadcasting Glasgow on the twenty seventh of this this month and then I think next month I'm <hes> not stir much till the end of the month when I'm in <hes> in Germany and I'm forgotten the name of the place because it's like really tiny place in the East which I've Indiana a lump sum sure German listeners will be able to themselves Kuban Matt's reminders? What's happening with that talk about trains passing? I'm playing the B._F._i.. Are With without Scottish accent distinct trainspotting on the big screens so I mean if you haven't seen in a big way this is your chance and only ten minutes beforehand so enjoy the film basically fantastic listeners. Thanks for listening to run but where off next week because it's hauls back in two weeks time so in the meantime for me and Sean producer Sobek thanks.