19 Episode results for "FTC"
FTC scrutiny of Big Tech digs into old deals
"The big tech companies got so big in parts by swallowing lots and lots of tiny companies now the FTC wants to know. Is that anti-competitive? From American public media this is marketplace tech demystifying the digital economy. I'm Ali would this week. The Federal Trade Commission demanded that the five biggest tech companies turn over years of information on some of their past acquisitions. Not The big ones like facebook buying instagram. Or even google buying ways. It's navigation competitor. These are the ones that were too small to be reported to anti-trust officials think sub one hundred million bucks the FTC. It seems wants to know. If Tech Company's got to be giant whales by goping down a whole bunch of minnows that might have grown into big competitive fish. If they'd just been left alone in the pond. Diane Bart's covers antitrust for Reuters so at the Federal Trade Commission decided to do is to do a very wonky thing. It's called EXPE- study and so they sent all these orders to the big tech companies. Some of which are being investigated and they asked them about all their transactions that they concluded that were below the level. That normally has an antitrust review. So right now that's about ninety four million dollars and the idea is that they're gonNA maybe in the future be doing a more re- tough review of these smaller acquisitions. Maybe they should lower the threshold of what's reportable to the government as an acquisition nail. So did a little bit of Saber rattling saying you know if we find an anticompetitive acquisition in the hundreds of transactions that. They're expected to be told about you. Know they might go in and try to do an enforcement action. What do you think is the the goal here of this review? The goal is for for them to look at the smaller transactions. And see if there's a transaction that is in a competitive and I think what they're what they're saying to themselves is. Is there a company that would have risen up to be the next facebook? The next Google but it didn't didn't happen because it got bought by facebook or got bought by Google. Wallo is still a tiny tiny tiny company. I think they're looking to see if these acquisitions of smaller companies are reducing dynamism in Silicon Valley. What is the threshold now for a deal an acquisition that does have to be reported to the FTC? And where do you think that could land right? Now it's About Ninety four million. And you know just. The fact that there's an antitrust review doesn't mean the deal isn't going to happen because you know something like ninety eight percent of reviews are done in thirty days fine no problem and then maybe one or two percent something like that. They get what's called the second request? Which means they have to follow a lot of documents and then at the end most of them go forward maybe they have to divest something you know and then a very tiny percentage one or the other agencies will go to court and say you know I want. This stopped Diane. Bart's covers antitrust for Reuters. The company the FTC has asked for information are alphabet Amazon Apple facebook and for the first time in the current antitrust investigation landscape Microsoft. A company that sadly is probably well prepared for what might come next and now for some related links. So it's not that clear what might come out of the FTC's research action here. Maybe it will be as simple as like. Diane Bart says lowering the threshold for the amount of money that qualifies as an acquisition that has to be reported to anti-trust regulators but any suggestion that the FTC might be getting more aggressive about blocking mergers. Acquisitions IS GONNA cost some concern among venture capitalists earlier this month. The FTC sued to stop edge. Well Personal Care Company. Kk A schick razors from buying the razor blades. Startup Harry's that would have been a one point three billion dollar deal business insider prime which is behind a paywall. Sorry an interesting. About how investors who count on companies having big so-called exits that usually come through a merger or acquisition were stressed and that stress is only likely to increase if it gets harder for companies to buy other companies investors and startup founders often shape companies specifically to be acquisition targets in two thousand sixteen ninety seven percent of these exits were mergers or acquisitions and most of those happened after a company got series a funding but before series. B. As in most cases when the companies were still quite small. This is all according to CB insights. There's a story and an info graphic on our website marketplace tech dot org and considering that tech. Ipo's have really fallen out of favor. In the last several years anything that introduces friction to the startup. Acquisition funnel is bound to have some ripple effects. Keep your eye on this trend friends. I'm Ali would and that's marketplace tech. This is a PM.
Interview with Lesley Fair Senior Attorney with the Federal Trade Commissions Bureau of Consumer Protection Broadband Benefit Program Episode 117 IP Fridays
"This is leslie fair. I'm a senior attorney with the federal trade commission's bureau of consumer protection and you're listening to it fridays pun when and welcome to this episode of ip. Friday's our names are ken. Suzanne and ralph clayson and this is the podcast dedicated to intellectual property. It does not matter where you are from in house or private practice novice or expert. We will help you stay up to date. With current topics in the fields of trademarks patents design and copyright discover useful tools and much more. Welcome to episode one hundred and seventeen of the ip fridays. Podcast i'm ken. Suzanne co host of the ip fridays. Podcast along with ralph clayson if this is your first time listening to the ip fridays podcast. Welcome and if you're a returning listener. Thank you for coming back. If you enjoy our podcasts. Please help to spread the word on social media and through word of mouth. Our guest today is leslie. Fair lesley is senior attorney with the federal trade commission's bureau of consumer protection before we get today's interview let's focus on a recent development from the federal communications commission and it's emergency broadband benefit program in an effort to expand high speed internet access to low income residences across the united states. The federal communications commission has announced the emergency broadband benefit program a three point two billion dollar federal initiative that provides eligible households with discounts up to fifty dollars per month for broadband service. Seventy five dollars per month for households on tribal lands and a one time discount of up to one hundred dollars on a computer or tablet for eligible households program eligibility includes low income households who already participate in low income or pandemic relief programs established by broadband providers lifeline subscribers including those on medicaid or those that accept snap benefits households with children who receive reduced price or free school breakfast or lunches. Pell grant recipients and those who have lost their jobs and seeing their income reduced in the last year. The fcc's acting chairwoman jessica rosenworcel stated that quote this program will help those at risk of digital disconnection. It will help those sitting in cars and parking lots just to catch a wifi signal to go online for work. It will help those lingering outside the library with a laptop just to get a wireless signal for remote learning. It will help those who worry about choosing between paying a broadband bill and paying rent or buying groceries in short. This program can make a meaningful difference in the lives of people across the country close quote now to today's interview with lesley fair our guest today on the ip fridays. Podcast is leslie fair. Lesley fair is a senior attorney with the trade commission's bureau of consumer protection after litigating false advertising cases for more than twenty years. She now specializes in industry outreach. She is the primary author of the ftc's blog which the journal name to its best law blog list. She has received the robert pitofsky lifetime achievement award among the highest honors for a career. F- key staff member. Leslie serves as vice chair in the american bar. Association's antitrust law section on the faculty of the catholic university school of law since nineteen eighty-four. She holds the title of distinguished lecturer. She also teaches consumer protection law at the george washington university law school. Leslie clerked for the united states district. Judge fred shannon in san antonio texas and served as staff counsel to the united states court of appeals for the fifth circuit. She is a graduate of the university of notre dame and the university of texas school of law. Welcome leslie to ip fridays. thank you can. It's a delight to be speaking with you. Leslie can you tell our listeners about the ftc's bureau of consumer protection. What does its mission. And what are the typical matters that it handles on a day-to-day basis. I think most. I p professionals are familiar with the other half of the federal trade commission of the bureau of competition which deals with antitrust issues. Obviously we like to think of ftc standing for both four thriving competition as well as for the consumer so the consumer protection side of the ftc. we deal with Challenging unfair deceptive trade practices in the marketplace certainly scams and frauds but also illegal business practices by fortune five hundred and other large corporations. And you've been with the fcc for twenty years for more than twenty years. How has the ftc change during that time period. I started ken in nineteen eighty seven. Which was before dawn of internet history. And so i thought that was tough and challenging back then when all we had to deal with was television advertising radio advertising direct mail things along those lines and of course the world changed when with the digital revolution the interesting thing is the size of the ftc. Staff has not changed so we are virtually the same size as we were when i started in nineteen eighty seven however as a cop on the beat if you will in the marketplace You know we have the same number of staff but the biggest change of course has been. What the ftc has done And and continues to do when it comes to the digital marketplace and. I think that's been a change. Obviously for your clients and and a huge change for what the ftc. Is there a certain type of issue that you see more of today than you didn't see a number of years ago. Well you know for the most part issues of data security and consumer privacy. Were not as up front as they are now. We have a division of privacy and identity protection that was founded about twenty years ago now. That's not to the. Ftc hasn't always had an interest in data security and consumer privacy. I would go back to a statute we've been enforcing for fifty years. The fair credit reporting act. Which does have very specific consumer privacy and data security provisions But i think the What i wouldn't have predicted when i started at the ftc in one thousand nine hundred seven is the extent to which questions about data security consumer privacy and the ongoing big data debate. However you want to Define that phrase I don't think anybody could have predicted that direction. But that is that makes up for a lot of what the ftc does these days. Not the only thing. But certainly data security and privacy are huge parts of our mission To both you know on the antitrust side to encourage competition in the marketplace and also on the consumer protection side To make sure that the flow of commercial information that it flows both Cleanly and freely. Which i think is how the supreme court ordered it over the years. Yes and let's move onto the word scams which i'm sure takes up a lot of what you do particularly here now with covid nineteen. I understand that there are a lot of scams happening. What are some of these scams that you're seeing. What can businesses and consumers to protect themselves. I think that You know this time last year when we were preparing or planning our budget Your clients of course. We're expecting the massive change to their business and we had really no way to predict that too but our mission in so many ways on the consumer protection side. How has really shifted in focus. Certainly we're still bringing And in the same Record numbers the kinds of cases we've always brought but the prevalence of cova scams has taken over a big chunk of what we do so far. The ftc has sent more than three hundred and fifty warning letters to companies And these you know now some folks have said why not file three hundred fifty lawsuits you know that's because we're spending taxpayer money Three hundred and fifty lawsuits are difficult to do. And i think we had real success with this warning letter system. Basically what we've done is You know we have all of us on staff Kind of Looking for the kinds of Questionable practices that. We're seeing these might be Cures preventions for covert treatments for covid That's one thing and so we've sent those three hundred and fifty letters to companies basically saying listen. We spotted what we think. Some questions practices on your site. We want you to get a hold of us within the next three days and we certainly hope that you will take a closer look at what. You're saying I call these just slightly facetiously letters from the ftc. The friendly trade commission because it They are we. Send those letters out with the presumption that some of the companies that are Engaged in these practices may be relatively new to the marketplace. They may have rushed in. They may not have talked to counsel before entering the marketplace and Generally speaking we've had good success in companies then taking down those questionable points now when we when companies have refused A number of cases against purported cures and and treatments That are in litigation right now and so. That's one large area what we're seeing. We're also seeing a number of issues dealing with Shipment of personal protective equipment You know. The ftc enforces The mail internet and telephone order rule. that to me is really the the key regulation that has made online commerce possible because for the most part when we clifton order now button most to have great success in maybe even overnight but at least in a in a few days getting the the dmz we ordered now we absolutely appreciate for businesses that there have been disruptions in the supply chain and we get fat and the mail order rule understand that so if a company you know In good faith makes the claim that they have items in stock or have items available. These might be masks disinfectants. The kind of things that everybody's looking for right now There's an easy way Under the mail order rule to just notify customers. And saying listen we're having a A supply hickup. Do you want to wait or do you want to cancel the order. That's what we're seeing. However is a number of companies going online setting up websites that claim to have ready access to those n ninety five masks. People are looking for or other kind of personal protective equipment these and and yet Are not shipping shipping weeks or months after the fact Are allegation in pending cases. Is that this has certainly harmed consumers but it's also harmed a lot of small businesses up doctors offices or nursing homes or daycare centers that need those kinds of things to be able to to To do their work the other a very interesting case. We currently have pending is a case against A number of a group of people that basically spoofed the website of well-known disinfecting profit prada so consumers thought from the spoofed url and the look of the page that they were actually on a website of clorox and of life. So consumer suck. Oh my gosh. I finally have access to the to the cleaning supplies is able to get They placed orders and the companies that set up the websites Took the money and ran and this of course harms certainly the consumers who lost money. But in this case we also think who else was harmed was clorox and lysol So you know as a general rule. And here's the news that ip practitioners might not want to hear you know. As a general rule. The ftc's job is not to enforce the ip right of companies. Many many of which have more lawyers than the federal trade commission has But our job is to protect consumers So in that case you know we certainly thought it was consumers being injured but also The companies whose good name have been spoofed and had been stolen the other big bucket of scams that we're seeing are once especially aimed at small businesses. I guess anthem consumers who are really struggling to keep their head above water financially I think a lot of folks are aware of the sba's various loan programs. And what a lot of you know. What some You know bad actors have done is set up websites using you are ells that appear to be from the sba are collecting companies quote unquote applications And actually have no affiliation with the sba or those loan programs at all and so those small businesses find themselves out of luck. So i think those are kind of the three buckets of the kinds of deceptive practices that we have seen and that we're trying to do something about with respect to those spoofed websites was litigation filed. I think you said yes. Out cases pending and this was an interesting case because we maimed I we we named unnamed defendant You know we went in because one of the interesting parts of the case will be trying to figure out the source of these websites. They tended to go up for a short period of time collect money shutdown and then opened up elsewhere under a slightly different name. And so i know that scammers to engage in that kind of conduct think they're fooling not so The ftc has Some very sophisticated online investigative abilities We also have Some real Kind of tech. I'll call them. Sort of csi tech experts You know in our in our secret internet lab bunker That they are able to do the kind of investigations. We need to track down folks who are doing their level best to avoid detection so that was an interesting case in that it was brought against the unnamed You know entities that were using these spoofed website. Well it's good to hear that. The ftc is cracking down on those types of websites. I know that many consumers and brands are hurt by those types of websites. So good to hear that. What if one is a victim of an online scam. What can people do. Is there a way to report things to the ftc. I think there's a website there is can report fraud dot. Ftc dot gov is the place to go and And let me make clear. A consumer or business does not actually have to be victimized by the fraud to report So if Good citizen spots something online. That looks very questionable. We welcome their Them to file a report online. Two we get We operate something or the consumer sentinel network. It is a You know with with multiple law enforcement agencies across the united states everybody from local police departments investigating identity theft to obviously the federal trade commission We put all those reports from consumers in one central confidential database reserved only for law enforcement. And we use those to help make our case and so You know all we publish You know without the names of but we published daily for example the number of covid reports we have received. I think the latest number is about three hundred and fifty thousand that we've received from consumers In the past eleven months or so And so You know that is a really useful source of information Because the consumer may think they're the only one that has been victimized in this way but by letting us know about it by being deputized to be our eyes and ears in the marketplace. They can let us know information about what they spotted that can help us put together cases and if not us can help the state attorneys general or the local police department make more effective Have the evidence that we need to go to court To make them more persuasive case so report fraud dot. Ftc dot gov is an easy way for consumers to let us know what they're seeing we also are very open to hearing from businesses You know i the the site is called report fraud. But i want to be real clear. We accept Reports about things that might not legally be classified as fraud. We you know any kind of questionable practices and so if a business sees a questionable practice engaged in by their competitor and who hasn't You know they're welcome to contact us. you know to to let a let us know what they've seen and so There are You know one of the things they can do with simply contacted me personally at el-farah fair at ftc dot gov and i can kind of send them to the right person to talk to but A number of cases. Although i can't say which Have been brought after an independent. Ftc investigation But based on a tip that we received from competitor. Because who knows more about what's going on in the marketplace than the petters and how often have You know have lawyers in this area had to deal with clients. Who said you've told me. I can't do this yet. Look you are our competitor is doing you know. Maybe i need one of those nice lawyers who will let me violate the law and so we want to be supportive of attorneys. Who are counseling. Their clients wisely To let them know that if there are competitors out there Not playing by the same rules and cutting corners We're we're all ears. We'd like to hear about it. We'll put a link to report fraud. That ftc dot gov in the show notes so that listeners can directly. Click on that if they need to look. Let's shift the focus to privacy. How does the ftc regulate privacy issues with respect to the internet regulate let me just underscore or put a little astro s job by that work. Interestingly the commission is actually a law enforcement agency regulatory agency now why am. I making that That that very law school like Sort of Distinction we do the. Ftc have authority under the administrative procedures. Act to promulgate regulations and so but that doesn't mean we don't have regulations That we enforce but the more common way is that congress will direct us to promulgate as for example. It did in the year. I guess it was nineteen ninety nine when it said to the ftc. We don't want businesses to be collecting information from children online without parental permission So do something about it. ftc I call this a. Jean luc picard. Make itself and so You know congress did that. And that's how the children's online privacy protection rule came about you know. Certainly we have several rules under the gramm leach. Bliley act the safeguards rule in the Privacy rule we have the children's online privacy protection act but most of our privacy cases can have come out of the standard tenant of ftc law. Which is that. Companies must honor the express and implied representations that they make to consumers now whether that is This will prevent you from getting covert. This will increase your income or we promise not to share information with third parties without your expressed consent. We apply the exact same law across the board to those it's a statute written in twenty. I'm sorry in nineteen fifteen It's having revision one amendment since then in the thirties but it says unfair or deceptive acts or practices inner affecting commerce are hereby declared unlawful section. Five of the ftc. So most of our privacy cases are brought under that rubric. That companies have In in practices have used consumers personal information in a way that the ftc alleges is either deceptive or unfair and we brought a number of big cases over the years. I'm thinking of the five billion with the b dollar facebook settlement for example That was brought under that rubric of unfair deceptive acts or practices are hereby declared unlawful. So we we look at what companies say expressly and by implication on their website for in their privacy policies with regard to how consumer information's going to be used and then if those practices are either misleading or unfair. We will use our standard Jurisdictional authority to challenge those practices justice. We would of a false advertisement and so a lot of what we do. Recently has certainly dealt with consumer privacy focusing on the online experience and enforcement I understand the something called the restore online shoppers confidence. Act what is that act. And can you give me any recent examples on how the act was enforced. rosca as it's called deals with those pesky negative options that consumers who think that they may be responding to a free offer online. Let's say And yet are actually being signed up without their express consent for a monthly shipments and billing of product. Oh yes i hear that happens. A lot happened a lot. It is particularly annoying now. Certainly some of these companies are You know You know are very questionable and are selling stuff that You know we also have problems with the underlying Nature of what they You know what they Are pedaling but a lot of it is to you'll. We brought a number of cases to against companies. That are in what some people call. You know the front door economy Think there is anything that we can't get delivered these days and certainly in a time of cova that's been a lifesaver for many of us. Yeah but one example In a case involving a again an established company is a is a is a company called dorming and they offer Both kind of casual where exercise clothing washer rate for women but the allegation was that and they sell Every month You know consumers are build For the product in the ftc challenged under rosca the operation of of their Up their mailing On you know so. That's an example again. Not of a company peddling a bogus diet pill that way but a company that we allege they needed to tweak to business model to make sure That they were honoring all of the Points of rosca one of the important aspects of rosca and this was brought up in a recent case involving some online educational Materials for kids is to make it easy to cancel that you know a lot company that all the time sign up. It's easy to cancel anytime you want. And yet A number of companies make it virtually impossible to figure out to cancel. A number of them will accept cancellations only by phone but don't publicize that phone or them only by email but not through a general email box. You have to email very specific mailbox. That again is not publicize So it is not illegal to engage in these kinds of negative option but roster requires very very clear disclosures upfront consumers and it requires consumers to It quite as companies to honor quickly and easily the request of consumers to complain. One of the first things will do of course is to you know Undercovers sign up for this service and then try to cancel and You know once we're on hold for forty five minutes. Maybe that's kind of a sign. Company could have a rough problem. Sure with the internet being global. Does the ftc ever enforce Us laws against individuals or entities located outside the us. Do internet shopping and scams fit into that as well. I guess we do that in two different ways You know we do have an office of international affairs that the ftc that works cooperatively with our brothers and sisters and other agencies across Around the world okay. and so We work very regularly because let's face it. Once the company may shut down in the united states We don't wanna see them using those same tactics against canadian consumers or consumers in other parts of the world and vice versa. you know so We think having those very close ties Is one way to try to crack down on. Illegality there's been a lot said and locked the ftc's doing With regard to robocalls Which are illegal yet are often coming from sources. Outside the united states when companies have assets in the united states and targeting the united states consumers. Those are those are easier cases to bring for companies that don't have a united states presence. Were more likely to try to work with our counterparts in that in that part of the world to try to do something about it. But i can say you know there's a very good statute the usa safe wetback I'm sorry the us safe lab that that That encourages this kind of cooperation. But it is one of the difficulties. in internet commerce We see this again. Robocalls as i mentioned and social media to that a number of the issues involving illegal social media practices You know we've had concerns are coming from places outside. The united states. You mentioned social media. Does the ftc regularly review. You know social media on their own for violations or do they rely upon reports from others. How does that work. We do both. And i think the you know the important thing to that company should remember You know a lot of companies are very careful about making sure that they contact people like you can or other attorneys to review their marketing materials before they go out That's kind of a smart prudent thing to do. Yeah obviously to make trademark stuff is taken care of. But that's why i love talking to. It attorneys because they are very often the defacto consumer protection attorneys But one of the things that we remind them is that their social media presence is also subject to the false advertising provisions of the ftc. So what they say on facebook what they tweet What the influencers That they that they hire to to As part of their marketing efforts what those influencers say is their responsibility The the most important provisions are under the ftc needs guides for the use of endorsements and testimonials which long predates social media. But it says two important thing that an influence serve or a blogger at twitter and an instagram or can't say something about a product that the company doesn't have You know the advertiser doesn't have proof to support so you can't you can't slide that in the side door by having it come from someone else substantiation right. That's the key factor applies again tv internet direct mail. Social media companies must have before acclaimed goes public before those public must have in hand competent reliable evidence to support that. That's kind of the foundation of what we do. That was the reason for for example. Those covid Warning letters what's your substantiation the other angle that comes up in the influence or context. Is it clear from the nature of the tweet. The i g the blog etc. That's the influencers or is working on behalf of the company and so We call those material connections and we think consumers have a right to know that If you go to website and it says leslie fares. The best lawyer in washington dc You know that might be influential until you find out that It's my mother's website right. We think that kind of connection is important for consumers to have to allow them to factor in to what extent is that going to factor in To the credibility they give Wha what the influence may have to say and so we've done a lot In recent years in social media But the important thing for companies to know is that when we're looking at their advertising claims that includes what they're saying. We're coming near the end of our time today on ip. Fridays leslie. Could you give our listeners. An idea of the online resources that the ftc has to find out more information About issues that we've talked about today. We have a lot of online resources. Can these are plain language to the point brochures and guidance documents that can walk businesses and attorneys through what the ftc law is. Certainly we have our ftc dot gov website that author kind of the news of the day but we have a special portal for business people in attorneys. That's business dot. Ftc dot gov and their consumer businesses poll find more than two hundred plain language. Guy how to deal with disclosures in a digital environment. What if they want to sell dietary supplements how do influencers need to disclose their connections. All of those questions are answered at a business dot. Ftc dot gov we also Mentioned and i will in the interest of full disclosure reiterate. What you said that i am the ftc's primary business logger But the business blog goes out usually between two or three times a week To give a very informal take The takeaway tips for businesses about. Ftc's actions and initiatives and cases. I will be I am proud to say most people who look at it ask themselves. Are you sure that a government website And that's makes my day when they do that. I think the only time. I may have crossed. The line is when i explained the provisions of the fair credit reporting. Act the f. Cra to the tune of the village people's ymca. Maybe that crossed the line. But i can guarantee you. This is a blog. Like no other and you can subscribe at ftc dot com slash. Subscribe to business alerts. So between business dot gov and the business blog. It's an easy way for companies to Keep up today a wealth of information. Indeed leslie. I really appreciate you taking the time with us here on the ip fridays. Podcast thank you so much. That's it for this episode. If you liked what you heard please show us your love by visiting ip fridays dot com slash. Love and tweet a link to this show. We would be so grateful if you would do that. It would help us out to get the word out. Also please subscribe to our podcast at ip. Fridays dot com or on itunes or stitcher dot com. If you have a question or want to be featured in one of the upcoming episodes please send us your feedback at ip. Fridays dot com slash feedback. Also these leave us a review on itunes. you can go to. Ibm fridays dot com slash tunes. And it will take you right to the correct page on. I tunes if you want to get mentioned on this podcast or even comments within the next episode. Leave us your voicemail at ip. Fridays dot com slash voicemail. You have been listening to. An episode of ip friday's the views expressed by the participants of this program are their own and do not represent the views of are they endorsed by their respective law firms. None of the content should be considered legal advice the ip fridays. Podcasts should not be construed as legal adviser legal opinion on any specific facts circumstances. The contents of this podcasts are intended for general informational purposes. Only and you are urged. Consult your own lawyer on any specific legal questions as always consult a lawyer or patent or trademark attorney copyright two thousand fourteen. All rights reserved.
A critic of Big Tech is now one of its biggest regulators
"This marketplace podcast is supported by gp gp software helps hundreds of fortune five hundred global. Two thousand companies transform. Their supply chains to become more agile and resilient with greater supply chain visibility and control g. e. p. helps companies eliminate risk and avoid disruptions. Gaap software strategy managed services visit g. e. dot com. And by cyber reason. If you're a defender fighting to protect your organization from cyber attackers you must be successful ending attacks every single time. They only need to be successful. Once cyber reverses the attackers advantage their future ready attack platform gives defenders the wisdom to uncover understand piece together multiple threats and the precision focused and cyberattacks instantly together. We are the defenders cyber reason and cyber attacks from end points to everywhere learn more at cyber reason dot com slash marketplace critic of big tech becomes one of its biggest regulators from american public media. This is marketplace tech. I'm amy scott in for molly would this week. The white house appointed lena con to be the next chair of the federal trade commission. The announcement came just after she was confirmed by the senate to be a commissioner. Just thirty two years old. She's the youngest. Ftc chair ever con- rose to fame for a paper. She wrote while at yale law school. Making the case for reigning in amazon's monopoly. power. She went on to work on capitol hill as an ftc staffer and as a professor at columbia's law school. The appointment is a topic for quality assurance where we take a second. Look at a big tech story. Cecilia kong covers tech policy for the new york times. She says the difference between commissioner and chair is significant. The chair has a lot of power in that. The chair sets the agenda and the chair has direct oversight. If you will of all the bureau's that handle all the operations of the agency so this appointment the sea is really not just symbolic. It really is in practice a very important seat for those who don't follow the ftc. Very closely What tools does the agency have that other antitrust players do not tell you what they don't have they don't have regulatory power they really don't create policy that much and what i mean by that is they're not like the federal communications commission that creates regulations over the company said they oversee the. Ftc is purely along forcement agency when they see problems. That's when they step in and they police they they're cops essentially of the law. They also approve or reject mergers and can force companies to change the terms. How my lena kahn. Or the commission under lena. Cons leadership use those tools. Do you think. I think you can expect mergers to be a lot harder underlying a con. I think she's very skeptical of consolidation. Not just in the tekken streep at across the economy. That said it's really expensive. And it's hard to bring cases tech companies have endless resources that have tc certainly does not. The ftc is one hundred six years old and many of said not only that it needs more resources but needs to get you know smarter dipper. How much do you think cons appointment. Move it in that direction. There are a couple things going on within the ftc. I think there's a tradition to go after a certain kinds of cases like fraudsters that kind of scams. I think that lena con views. This is a moment she would come in and perhaps try to change the habits and the priorities to focus a little bit more on these bigger issues in cases. I think it's going to be hard. It'll be hard for lena. Con is as she has that kind of ambition. And i think also. There's so much expectation that she comes with their sort of a lot of a lot that she'll have to overcome in the first one hundred days or so. I imagine more broadly. What do you think her. Appointment says about the biden. Administration's overall approach to antitrust and the tech industry. I was surprised that she was named chair. I was surprised that president biden. Put kim woo who is also a real critic of big tech he is. He advocated for breaking up tech companies in particular facebook president biden. Put him in the white house and the national economic council in a position newly created position. That's focused on competition. It shows that the biden administrations focused on competition. And this is and that it is it. Is that really the ideas of breaking up monopolies and going after tech companies that used to be sort of a fringe idea just a few years ago has moved very much into the mainstream so it shows that this is a priority and the the national economic council has many people who are sort of younger they come from progressive left politics and they all so don't have sacred cows if you will. They don't have the sort of. You can't talk about break-up you can't talk about regulating. Xyz in the way that i'd heard from so many government officials for so many years up in prior administrations. So it's i feel like they're ambitious and sort of unencumbered by the concerns of lobbyists concerns of sort of past arguments. It just it feels very different right now. Of course. The ftc will be constrained not only by existing laws but by How the courts interpret them but on the legislative side. There have been a bunch of antitrust bills put before congress Bipartisan bills are there. Any you think are likely to pass yes. There's been a lot of activity on the legislative front. There are some easy ones in my mind. There are there is legislation that would increase funding for the ftc and the doj so that they can pursue these cases with more resources. there is And part of that would be raising fees on merger applications. That's where some of the money would come from. There are proposals for example that would give consumers more control over their data and and be able to for example. Take all of the information they've put on. Facebook can take to snapchat for example. That's something that's you know. That's known as data portability and it's known as it's viewed as a solution to competition problems. That seems less controversial. Some of the others There are others that are more controversial. Such as the inability of somebody of a platform to preferences some products. So like say a search engine like google couldn't Couldn't highlight or promote google maps or youtube. It would there are proposals. There is a bill that would make it much harder to buy nascent competitors and that one could be hard because the the sort of disorder guidelines and the justifications for how you determine what is a nasa complacent competitor not be fuzzy so that could be hard and mired in certainly lots of lobbying In the lobbying is certainly begun. So i would say like the ones that embolden empower the agencies with more money are pretty easy and those can be passed the ones that have to deal with really slowing down mergers as well as as putting restraints on how companies operate in particularly their business models. Those ones are going to be really hard and tech companies are going to fight very hard to stop them from becoming law. Cecilia kong covers tax policy for the new york times. Now for some related links. Ben thompson has a rundown of the bipartisan bills. We talked about over at stratechery. The proposed legislation announced last friday. Came out of an investigation by the house antitrust subcommittee into big tex monopoly power. Ftc charleena khan played a big role in that investigation. As staff counsel to the majority as we discussed the merger filing fee modernization act would increase the filing fees companies pay when they merge for the first time in twenty years and would peg future increases to inflation. There's a companion. Bill in the senate if cast it bring in an estimated one hundred thirty five million dollars in revenue in its first year according to the congressional budget office and helped the ftc and justice department pay for the cost of reviewing mergers. We've also got links to some of cecilia kong's reporting including a recent story with david mccabe about lena. Cons rise from academic researcher to one of the country's top regulators. Because i mentioned at the top khan became famous in antitrust circles for peace. She published in the yale law journal for years ago. Called amazon's antitrust paradox. She argued that. The current framework for antitrust regulation focuses on consumer welfare as measured by prices. As long as amazon kept prices consumer low she said the company was allowed to grow essentially unchecked into an e commerce tightened that controls the platform many of its competitors depend on. It's as if jeff bezos. Kahn wrote charted the company's growth by first drawing a map of antitrust laws and then devising routes smoothly bypass them but she goes on congress passed antitrust laws not just to protect the welfare of consumers but workers producers on poor citizens in other words. Competition is good for more than just a will be watching how that framework changes under her. Watch if you want to read more you know where to go links or at marketplace tech dot org. Hey seuss alvarado. Sasha fernandez stephanie. Hughes and michael lincoln produced the show. Our engineer is justin dolor. I'm amy scott and that's marketplace tech. This is a pm. Hail amity mcrae's host of the marketplace podcast. This is uncomfortable. Taking advantage of a loophole is a delicate game. You cut a lot of corners but you also getting caught and what. If the loophole really infuriates. All systems can be games. All systems can be gamed. It's just a complex system and there's ways in which to manipulate it and there's ways in which to you know slided in my favor and why not do that this week. One man with a lot of debt discovers a controversial loophole and actually gets away with it. New episode of this is uncomfortable. Drops thursday wherever you get your podcasts.
FTC Commissioner Rebecca Kelly Slaughter on Facebook's $5 billion fine, YouTube's COPPA violations, and the dangers of under-enforcement
"This episode is sponsored by Jay Street. The political home for Pro Israel pro peace Americans Jay Streets National Conferences October twenty sixth through Twenty Nineth in Washington D. C. J. Jay Street is teaming up with Tommy Vitor. Ben Rhodes Hosa pod saved the world to bring you thought provoking discussions with experts policymakers and twenty twenty candidates on the future of US US Middle East policy learn more at j street dot Org Slash box and save twenty percents off your conference registration when you use the code box at checkout again that's Jay Street dot org slash vox and code box to save twenty percent t mobile is relentless over the last three years. They've invested invested nearly thirty billion dollars network and service improvements no signal stronger or more reliable than T. mobile's low band six hundred megahertz spectrum and they want you to try it for free as in no strings attached as in you can use your own phone and your own number. What other network does that go to t mobile? Well Dot com slash test drive and check it out for free for thirty days or thirty gigabytes of data t Dash M. O. B. L. E. dot com slash test-drive. No signals more reliable travels further or is better and buildings than six hundred megahertz. You may need to upgrade your device when you switch to get full coverage. Hi I'm Cara Swisher editor at large of recode you may know me as never going to be an FTC commissioner but in my spare time I talk tech and you're listening to Rico decode from the VOX media podcast network. Luckily we have an FTC commissioner here in the Red Chairs Rebecca Kelly slaughter one of the commissioners of the Federal Trade Commission. She's been in that post since May of two thousand eighteen previously served as chief counsel to Senator Chuck Schumer. She's one of the two democratic commissioners shinners correct correct and there are three Republican ones correct commissioner slaughter welcome to Rico decode. Thanks so much for having me. It's really exciting to see here so much to talk about. There's so much going along with the FTC so let's begin sort of setting the table I haven't been in the past and I'm going to try to keep an open mind a critical of the past ten years there's of the SEC where they sort of punted the ball and Google punted the ball and a lot of the text. We're going to stick to tech stuff but I know you guys have a huge purview. So why don't you wonder we begin by explaining what the FTC does but it's it's been lately the Regulatory Agency for the Internet because there isn't one except for the Justice Department and maybe the FCC shirt so the Federal Trade Commission was set up in nineteen fourteen so we're one hundred and five years old now and it has a mission that has two sides competition and consumer humor protection and we enforce primarily the FTC act which prohibits unfair and deceptive acts and practices and unfair methods of competition so dressed. I it's a lot it's it's vague and broad and that's a good thing about our statute allows us to adapt to harms that are real in two thousand nineteen not just what was real in nineteen fourteen but it also Israel in nineteen fourteen had two was over some wheel anti-drugs problems right nineteen fourteen to be dealt with there were not Internet right banks wchs probably all railroads but there were not internet problems right now with the technological universe looked very different so that's been a really evolving part the FTC's mission. I think we have an intentionally broad mission that is intended to allow us to adapt to that but it also is working for the agency to keep up and make sure that we're not just catching up with yesterday's problems but staying ahead of tomorrow's talk about the broad amount of things that you do when I ended up Margaret Vestige here she's also doing like furniture-maker. She's do there's lots of things or electric wire makers or things like that talk about the broad range of things most people right now are focused the FTC on the Internet companies because there's nowhere else that they're ranked even slightly regulated anywhere else sure and on the consumer protection side we do a huge amount of work and prohibiting fraud and student you didn't loans scams and debt relief scams and all kinds of bad scammy behavior like that on the competition side we review mergers and acquisitions we pursue new cases against anticompetitive conduct and I think it's really important to remember that antitrust problems in the United States are not limited to the tech universe. we have a lot of concentration operation in a lot of industries so for example last month or earlier this month. We sued to block a merger between two title insurance companies. That's what makes six buying your house more expensive right. We brought a case earlier this year against the middleman in e prescribing for on a monopolization claim so lots of industries stories that are not directly tech related although many of them have tech implications but really cut across huge swats of the economy and then depending if it's the FDA DA or the FCC a lot of the different agencies intersect with tech yet as a tech industry now how many people work for the FTC right now. I want to get people a sense of how small it's so we currently have about eleven hundred full time employees and then for comparison at the beginning of the Reagan administration we had about eighteen hundred so we have gone down in size and his our mandate has increased in opinion and the budget the budget has been roughly flat or nominally flat in actual numbers which means really it's getting smaller and we're having fewer and fewer employees every which is what was about three hundred and three hundred earn six million dollars a year. There's pointed out is the federal election. Commission is seventy million. It's very small. It's a super small group of people that are monitoring enormous swath of everything and then also we're dealing with technological challenges that come in but for good or bad a- The the two agencies that are focused on the Internet would be since there's hardly any regulation in fact there's almost none there is none except in Europe and some possibly California when it has privacy act that passes would be you ooh the FCC a little bit around net neutrality and then the Justice Department which under making Del Room a right now but the anti-trust division of the Justice Department so there's a lot of things you all have tackled why don't you talk a little bit about your history and then and how you look at sort of the landscape the FTC right now because you're all looking at a lot of companies sure and we have a really interesting moment in FTC history right now because there are five commissioners on the FTC as you mentioned by law three no more than three can come from the party of the president so we have three Republicans and two Democrats right now and all of us started at basically the same time. Four of us were sworn in on the same day in May two thousand eighteen. The fifth started a couple of months later. It's the first time in the history of the agency since it started that all five turned over at once and that's a big change for the agency. We're also all what I think. The staff would call engaged sort of quote unquote in your yes. I think I have a lot of sympathy for the staff because five new engaged engaged commissioners all at the same time means a lot of new opinions to deal with and grapple with and we come from a variety of backgrounds so I before I was here I spent about a decade working on Capitol Hill Covering Tech Telecom antitrust consumer protection all of these things from a policy perspective but I hadn't done enforcement work may the Democratic colleague comes from Consumer Protection Enforcement Background and as a went to business school not law school so he has a real mentality into oh how companies think about things and the decisions that they made one of the Republicans was my counterpart Senator Cornyn office so he also came from the hill one of the other Republicans uh-huh was in law practice and was at Delta in their counsel's office and the chairman has been an antitrust lawyer law firms in at the FTC for decades okay so we have a variety of perspectives a variety of viewpoints and I think that's a good thing. It's a healthy thing think we're challenging all of us in different ways the way things have been done John Traditionally but I think that that also means that it's a moment of real change and an opportunity for change at the agents and talk about that because changing things done done how so that it used to be more partisan. I don't think Washington has ever been more partisan than today no and they have but I well I leaving for that in my experience in in Washington. It's never been more partisan today. Nafta has a strong tradition of bipartisanship. That's a good thing it's good to be able to find solutions and common ground with people who don't always agree with you but it's also important to stand your ground and do what you think is right where you can't find those common ground solutions what I mean by changes that in the FTC's history particularly early in the latter half of the twentieth century there was a lot of pushback against the agency particularly from the right for alleged overreach so too aggressive on antitrust too to aggressive on consumer protection. There were allegations that the FTC is trying to be the national. Nanny the budget got cut its rulemaking authority got curtailed and and I think there's a lot of maybe. PTSD is the right word within the agency community about pushback against overreach and this was over. What have they done so they tried to pass regulations limiting the kinds of commercials that could be targeted at kids? There was very aggressive antitrust enforcement in the sixties Steve and this was before I came in and sort of had called for a rethinking of antitrust to make it much less aggressive so I I think we're now at a moment where I appreciate the history of concern over enforcement. I'm not sure I agree with it. I appreciate it but I think we need to be equally concerned about under under enforcement and with the responsibility that we have sort of uniquely as you point out in the federal government we need to be as creative and strategic and aggressive as we can even within our limited resources and within our hundred and five year old statute yeah my feeling you know and I I I went back and looked before this interview about articles. I did ten years ago go about Google when they were trying to take over Yahoo Search and at the time. I think you have to did stop it. In some way. There was no official ruling. I think it just was like like it wasn't gonNA fly essentially but it was so agree GIS I was sort of shocked. I think I did a a Dr Seuss Palm like you may not do this. I whatever I did and I just was sort of a flunks y the FTC continually you know took a dive on on these companies as they were getting big and I think one of them was ah can't regulate this industry. We can't do anything about it because we needed to grow. We need it to be the biggest we are the biggest we need to create these big companies which has resulted in you know it's sort of like giving kids sugar all the time. You've got very twitchy children and who are very unhealthy now if that's a mommy thing okay so be it but so when when you're talking about that idea there was under enforcement for sure I think that's or no none I think not under but very little I can't think of an FTC action against tech that company I mean maybe I'm being of any significance while I think it's hard to think of mergers that walked right. We are come to mind. The murders is that were approved. and there have been various consumer protection orders that went into place like the original facebook order but the concern is did those actually change change things and what do we do to actually meet sure companies change their behavior so let's start with that consent decree that happened twenty twenty letters when I covered i. I didn't think they'd follow it. Most people didn't think they'd fall and they thought they got off. I think the time they thought they got off so we'll talk about that consent degree just explain for people who don't follow every twisted my new shows. TC Law so in twenty eleven and maybe it was early two thousand twelve when it went into effect to the FTC had investigated indicated facebook for sharing its users information beyond the permissions the users have given it was related to beacon but go ahead yeah and I don't remember for that particular but that was the general idea sharing information that they told users they would keep private and to settle those that investigation those allegations allegations facebook entered into an agreement called a consent decree or consent order with the FTC under which it promised asked we will not do this again and we will specifically not misrepresent how consumers data is being used time passes passes and just so people know when they do these degrees. It's sort of push pull of what facebook things that could get out of what the FTC can actually enforce go to court. That's a really good point care so the FTC doesn't have the authority to issue fines or issue orders on its own. We can either negotiate a settlement with a company that we think resolves whatever whatever legal concern we have found or we can sue them and if you can find a settlement that actually resolves the problem that is very efficient because as you don't spend the money suing you can use that money for other enforcement actions and you put into place certainty for consumers and for the company earlier right and if you're changing their behavior in a minute in a meaningful meaningful way you'd rather do that sooner right then down the road. There's lots of ways you can do. In this case there was not a fine there was a small fine no there was because the other important thing about the FTC in it. We don't have the authority to issue regulations for under the same way other agencies do under the administrative procedures act on the consumer protection what action side we don't have the authority to issue fines for the most part in first instance violations and we can't just tell a company violated the law. Here's the penalty we have to do through this negotiation and think about what to do and the deterrent effect is supposed to be that once you're under order if you violate that order your subject to a penalty of up to forty thousand thousand dollars per day per violation now again if the agency finds the company has violated an order. We can't just say we find you a Brazilian dollars. We have to either missing resilient quote well. You had find facebook a Kazillion to that if you multiply forty thousand times all the users times all the days I I don't know exactly how many zillion is but that would be a quiz. It's a lot so but we we can't do that. We can't just say we issue this fine. Unlike our colleagues in Europe we have to in the first first instance either negotiate a settlement or take the company to court and so in the case of facebook did an investigation into this is by your staff doesn't investigation then put gives findings up to to the to the commissioner that's right when when the staff either gets information mission from complaints or reads information in newspapers or gets information from the company itself about potential violations it doesn't investigation to determine whether the order has been violated highlighted and then presents the commission. It's findings of whether the order has been violated and what its recommendation is for how to proceed so in this case facebook. The staff investigated a whole bunch of different allegations and generally found that facebook had misrepresented whether users data data would be shared with third parties third party that I'll read it on the facebook site right that was better then no that's in the second or second or so would spurs an invest. I'm sorry in the next part we'll talk about going what's Spurs in investigation complaints. Anything can burn investigation any evidence that the order has been violated so news news report three. I think frequently is a news report we read about journalists are very good at their jobs. We appreciate the free press and the work that it does and it often brings eight things we otherwise wouldn't know sometimes it brings to light things we already do know either because someone has come to us with a complaint accompany accompany a customer state attorneys attorneys-general sometimes no things and share information with us or because the company itself has required a company that's under orders required to provide us information and sometimes they come two us in the first instance and says this problem has come up that with data breaches. Sometimes that happens a lot that will come to us first before it's publicly reported right all right so as the cat was under this consent degree and proceeded not to follow it as was was found out this is just facebook. it started off off within Cambridge analytica correct. That's how that's how the news broke that Cambridge Analytica had harvested all of this facebook data and the investigation had two sides one on into Cambridge Analytica violated the law which we also found that it did and the second into facebook and whether it had violated its order which we protected people consumers to not not misrepresent and not misrepresent and then you you levied so they found them guilty of murder whatever not what's the word violently liable liable for that and then in levied a fine that you agreed on facebook like you negotiated a fine so I will you can use the term you did not because I did not agree the the commission identified a violation or a series of violations and negotiated with the company a monetary fine so that's for the order violation plus a new order that imposed restrictions on how facebook could collect a news consumer data right and among the things contemplated was direct responsibility hi Mark Zuckerberg all kinds of things which did not come to pass you can yes I can talk about what is my order and what is in my descent which the Roxbury yes okay order is in the order is requirements that facebook not lie about how is using data and some much more detailed requirements about how it audits privacy practices and data policies and changes in daily use requirements have reports of those audits and a requirement airmont there are changes to the board now at that it would have an independent privacy committee and there yet so I didn't particularly we've talked about that okay and then also a requirement that its CEO. Mr Zuckerberg certified that he's read the privacy audits and that the company he's he's not aware that the company is not in compliance with the order right which is a big old hole in the highway. Yeah although here's what I will say I think that you know Sarbanes Leans Oxley put executives on the record yet certify the validity of accounting and that kind of executive level accountability. I do think that is the area of the order that I thought was the biggest departure from the status quo and the potential for change how it's drafted matters how it plays out matters right whether you can do anything enforced. Do you have to actually does he actually certifying that there are no privacy problems or just the he's not aware of any lack of privacy product yes so those are the memo right. Those are those details really matter but right idea of executive accountability I do think has some potential responsible for responsible for his company. Which of course should go without not saying but that's another? That's my thing 'cause I'm a nanny so the fine was five billion dollars and as you know I've written column saying it should have been put a zero on it. Put Two zero is is on it. Make it count talk about your objections to what you all settled in on yeah so you know the order has two sides the money and the injunctive relief. They're both important the money to me only matters if the money is enough to materially changed the company's behavior actually both sides only matter if they drench it so my have you is in any case what we need to be doing is thinking about deterrence. How are we going to keep this company from violating the law and how are we going to send the message to other companies not the back door not worth it right if the money is not something that the company take seriously the absolute dollar figure it doesn't matter and it certainly doesn't matter how it compares to prior fines companies groundbreaking? I refused to put that word in any of my. I think that that's that's an irrelevant factor for deterrents. It's also irrelevant under the statute which requires us to consider factors like the culpability of the company and you know the indicating indicating the authority of the agency. It certainly doesn't requires to consider what prior companies paid in fines. I'm not sure what dollar amount would have been enough on its its own perfect to change facebook's behavior to have that deterrence amount because they have so much money right. It's very difficult to come up with a dollar number. That's really in a manner for a company that in some ways feels like it can print its own dollars fifty her well and but then again you go back to a settlement is something they have to be too right right. Yes that they're going to agree to something that is really. We don't have to win in court. That's their that's can pay for forty five billion dollars worth of lawyers lawyers. Yes yeah that's not afford forty five billion dollars right the lawyer no but I do think the agency has an obligation. If we have a settlement that we don't think is going to solve the problem uh-huh go to court and fight for the right outcome right which is we're fighting on behalf of the American people. We have to seek justice even if we're not guaranteed to achieve it. Yes absolutely so take a quick break. We're still talking to FTC Commissioner Rebecca Kelly slaughter about facebook and talking about wide range when we get back we're GonNa talk about what the other side who voted for it. uh thought this episode is brought to you by Jay Street an organization redefining what it means to be pro Israel Jay Street represents the mainstream voice of American Jews this fall join join with Jay Street to fight back against the anti-democratic forces threatening both the US and Israel registration is now open for J Streets National Conference October Twenty Sixth Through Twenty Nineth in Washington. DC Go to Jay Street DOT ORG SLASH VOX to learn more and register this year Jay Street has teamed up with crooked media producers of the hit podcast Pod Save Save the world and Pod Save America to bring you thought provoking interviews with leading advocates policymakers and two thousand twenty candidates host Tommy Vitor and Ben Rhodes will join the Jay Street three team to discuss the future of American leadership in the Middle East registered today for the J Street National Conference October Twenty Six twenty nine th in Washington. DC Go to j three dot org slash vox and use code box for twenty percent off your conference registration again. That's Jay Street dot Org Slash Vox and Use Code V. O. X. For twenty percent off when you registered to attend Jay Street the political home for Pro Israel Pro Peace Americans. Hey this is Sean Ramos for my host Box Daily News podcast today explained remember last week. You probably don't there's so much news this week and we are covering that news today explained explain but I wanNa talk about last week for a second to give you a sense of what our show does. We started the week with an episode called. How do you remove an egg from an armless omelettes? I'll give you three guesses what that one's about yeah. It's about brexit later in the week. We talked about these really election. We talked about the fifty first I state. DC last week gotTA take its call for statehood to Congress for the first time in a very long time and actually got to speak with Representative Eleanor Holmes Norton about her case for statehood. We ended the week with a hugely important and relevant to you no matter where you are episode on what's being done with our recyclables cycles and the answer was sadly some of it is being birth today explained listen to US wherever you listen to your podcasts we're here with. FTC Commissioner Rebecca Kelly slaughter. We've been talking about the facebook settlement which was very controversial. A lot of people thought it wasn't enough including me and you and you had objected to this and you're explain very briefly your objections. What is the money wasn't enough and then conduct side? I think really matters because I actually could have lived with less money if I thought we were imposing terms and conditions that materially changed the company's incentives to abuse lose people's data or their private and you suggested so I thought some of the things that we can do would be to limit actually not just with the order it does now is require facebook to sort of supervise and give permission for went third parties can access data. I thought we should actually limit when third parties can actually access data and on top of that I thought there should be affirmative. Limitations on how facebook itself can collect and use data across its properties and across the broader Privacy Bill Absence of a federal privacy legislation. I thought about affirmative requirement on facebook would make a real difference and then finally I thought we needed to pay more attention to the role of individual executives. I thought we had enough evidence to name at least Mr Zuckerberg in in a lawsuit but I didn't think the investigation I certainly didn't think the investigation gave us enough information about what he did or didn't do and the staff has said that publicly that they didn't interview him they decided the fine was what the settlement includes that I really objected to was a release of liability for the company and its executives for any other order violation and some general law violations prior for the date of the new order right to their they got off of everything they could have done if email releasing episode for me. It's one thing to say we're not going to hold you personally liable. It's a whole nother thing to say and we never will be able to we will excuse you from that way right now. In the investigation of doing the state attorney the State Attorney General's haven't haven't agreed to the I not the same thing with the House has not agreed to their pulling in all to me. The trove of information. You'RE GONNA get is from the emails of the past ten years. You're going to get great stuff in there because I know how sloppy Internet people are about their emails and you saw what happened. MIT and other places people and to be fair the FTC looked at a lot of emails from facebook. I'm not saying that we didn't thorough investigation. I'm just talking about executive level accountability to be fair. Also executive level accountability to me is not about vengeance engines are being vindictive but it's because a culture of compliance can only start from the top of a company absolutely executives feel like they have responsibility personal agendas and personal liability for the privacy decisions at their company meets are GonNa make sure they're not gonna be sloppy certainly or they're gonna let their employees as be sloppy about it. Okay so you disagree down the the other commissioners. It was a two to three to the three Republican Supreme Court over there right essentially but one one of the things is to try to convince one of them to come over and things like that but in general they felt this was the right way to go what they said publicly is. They thought that five billion in dollars and the terms we could get facebook to agree to or much more than we were guaranteed to get in court with Moore Circle Right and therefore it was worth it and a good choice for consumers humorous to take it now right which you you're GonNa not in a rational perspective and it's not one that excuses facebook of any liability it's. I don't think it's a fair criticism of them to say that. They didn't think facebook did anything wrong or should let them get away. They were thinking about using agency resources and certainly for consumers. I don't agree with the outcome at all but I don't think it came from a bad right. The more deregulated like don't let's not. Let's not step all over this very successful business to. There's a mentality that there's also some of that and I think in this particular case though it really was a certainty but to me that calculation about the value of going to court I think about it differently because first first of all I think the transparency of public litigation greed has huge value it has huge value both in terms of what it means for the company what it means for the public in terms of understanding standing yeah. I think it's great and you see that in some of the state. Ag Loss rife that alone has value for the public and if you reach a finding of why ability at the end of litigation nations that also has a value on which it's difficult put a particular number but I think as meaningful for consumer right because then your skin in the game so to speak and if you let the whole thing in lose news that's a really powerful argument to turn around to Congress and the American public and say we have tried our hardest and our hand by the law right right now do something about it. which is I think a lot of people pushing off responsibility onto agencies that have no none of the resources necessary? There's something which are and I talked about the ideas of how to fund the FTC better and get more money by I think hers was taxing some political ads or so she's she's really creative ideas and that's important. I mean these things things are not mutually exclusive. We can both push to do more and better with the resources and authority we have now and to try as hard as we can and say our resources in authority are not on great need to hire out match no matter what even if you don't let government. It's like a ridiculous matching and I don't think it's accidental right. No not at all SO I. I don't think people understood how powerful these companies would get. I think government is super slow moving. I mean to be fair. It's really to to understand their powers is taken taking them until now to figure out so you have this situation so fast forward to get off as we're gonNA minute but right now. You're all investigating them still so it doesn't end yeah what they're doing now and this one. There's a limited amount I can talk about. I wish there was more I would like us to be more transparent about everything everything about your negotiation. Even if I couldn't say everything about the negotiation I do think it's valuable for the public to know when the government is investigating things Europe. Does it yeah this guy. It doesn't fall right now. I think that that would be good but I can say because facebook has said publicly that there is an antitrust investigation into spoke now that's different from the privacy in order right but it is an ongoing investigation right by the FTC yeah and to be fair consistent with the terms of the consumer protection order there is going to to be continuous monitoring and reporting to the Agency of what the company's doing privacy and data security so that ongoing monitoring in a way is like continues investigation and has been reported today for example. You're all going you would go to the people were like. Can you believe they went to snapchat. I'm like that's the first stop on my parade if I was if I was is looking into FTC and antitrust stamp shedded had been creating a file as yelp sit around Google about what they considered violations and they called it the voldemort file file essentially calling facebook tomorrow in terms of what they consider violations things that that were antitrust behavior and the the ability of facebook which I think people can see right in plain sight copying all their things having enormous market power etc etc and so this leads to do do also have the Justice Department looking into not facebook Google and curricula split things up so that one. I can't particularly comment comment on general matter the agencies try to divide investigates conquer that we're not duplicating right resources because we want to be efficient with our limited government colors but you can look into any company right you. Can't we have some statutory restrictions we can't do common carriers telecom. It's the FCC yeah or DOJ antitrust over. I don't do pets right making did ATA exactly we don't do insurance companies. They all have yes so. We have a little bit of a divided thing but for the most part economy-wide economy-wide but it's been reported that you're all you're doing the FTC and then the natural thing is to go to competitors and then see where it goes was the investigations go anytime you want build antitrust investigation Tak not tech you need facts and information you know at the end of the day you have to assume you're going to have to prove your case in the court of law. You're going to need witnesses. You'RE GONNA documents. That's GONNA come from the company itself. It's also gonNA come from competitors. It's going to come from customers. If you don't have anyone complaining about the behavior of company even a dominant company. It's going to be challenging to make a case about the behavior of the dominant company so in any case the agency would not be doing its job if it were not actively seeking out information from witnesses to help figure out what is actually going on on the ground and where are there any potential violation and then it's in the backdrop of the house looking into it. The House has no recourse they can just look into it. They have public transparency certainly combatant and testimony. Mark was here this week visiting everybody's trying to make friends. He's trying to make friends among Internet companies now trying to head off the gates problem where everybody's just couldn't stand Microsoft way back when the Microsoft trial by the way is the example that hangs out in my head because of a public trial right and the transparency that clears with Russian right this was a major pretrial that was so fun to cover it was so internet for Microsoft necessarily but it was fascinating including the deposition. Yeah that's exactly the issue. The visit depositions have a decades long legacy in terms of what they mean for executive responsibility and how companies one could argue makes us better company for tonight. I mean they're now lovely with Brad. Smith and I was like your lovely now again. He believe I hang out with you. People but still I hope for some day to you know be marks House for the holidays and everything anything else. We'll see so you're looking into this and doing this. How long do these things take do they take are you too old? Behind on tech is going because they're moved onto lieber. They've they've moved on to other. Things and I WANNA get to youtube after that yes so yes we're too far behind on it takes too long to start investigation dating her and see takes too long to do. Investigations allegations and an antitrust companies have a real incentive to comply with murder investigations because they wanNA close their merger review the information they can move on their deal. He'll conduct investigations. There isn't the same incentive to comply right because the more information you give agency that could lead to finding a violation deletion whereas nothing good for the company on the other end of that so riding it out is in the company's interest so they may not be willing to provide information voluntarily. I'm just speaking generally. Yes you have to compulsory process then you have to fight about what they're actually going to turn over. You have to go to court to enforce your subpoenas and slow rolling. You is a good tactic here yeah yeah I mean strategically. It isn't a smart thing to do so one can anticipate that these things do not wrap up overnight. I mean I will say that I think that the FTC is it really staffed up. Its task ask force with real lawyers took off of other enforcement work to put them on technology work and that's important and I think the agencies committed to devoting resources resources to make sure those investigations get done well right I don't that doesn't give me any guarantee about the outcome of it right the fact that other looking tech and big tech essentially essentially so besides then there's there's obviously apple and its APP store. There's Google and YouTube there's Google Search Google owns YouTube. People don't know also facebook owns instagram and what's that an apple apple doesn't own that much stuff getting off a facebook. Let's talk a little bit youtube discussion about explain the situation there yeah so the short version of that is there is one law there's when when you were saying there no laws and regulations about tax there is one COPPA the children's Online Protection Act which was twenty years ago I wrote about online the Washington Post and it was really groundbreaking because it actually imposed affirmative requirements on companies with respect to how children's data is handled right the FTC investigated aided Youtube for all of the children's content that is on there and that is served with behavioral ads and behavioral ads are served by using a partic- partic- persistent device identifier the difference between contextual ads you search for a car and you get you get a car. Most people think we should go back to contextualize and stop with this behavioral nonsense so I will tell you that I have had a hero lot. Well behavioral heads help support higher quality content. I have seen no evidence. Thanks for that. I had a great deal with Duck Oh. Co You can do contextual. They can make just as much money yeah. If now the question is if everybody is doing contextual ads yes. That's that's then yes. I think you have that if some people voluntarily choose contextual ads they may be at a competitive disadvantage revenue from behavioral behavioral ads track your behavior dear across the Internet across vases across websites to target information specifically to you so it's why I get ads for Color Block. DOC swimsuits and machine washable flats all the time and I don't think my husband does I get shirts mate. What does that tell you? I never buy anything in my life but never bought a color blocks months on the New York Times up was gay shirts but but Bo shirts but listen sometimes cruises listen I I liked those washable flats. I go okay but there is a question about whether that benefit is worth the cost of targeted ads targeting content particular people right speaker targeting can be very manipulative right and when you're thinking about children that manipulation is really meaningful long way of explaining the FTC investigated Youtube Bob for marketing its platform to creators for as a place for children news Saturday morning cartoons and collecting persistent device ident identifiers to track associated with children's content right and we'll add to the data violation of COP. The agency Z. negotiated a settlement with you two for one hundred and seventy million dollars which was the largest copper fine by factors of Kano Twenty which I like to call couch. It's chain but again. It's the same thing that we discussed facebook. I don't care what their reviews. I don't care what the previous finest I got here. What the fine is this particular company and what it means for them and then it negotiated an order where youtube is going to be is now required to have all of its content creators designate themselves whether the content is child directed or not and if it's child directed it cannot be served with behavioral adds it can still have advertising it can still have contextual advertising but not behavioral advert right? That's okay as far as it goes. That's good as far as it goes but my concern was there's no requirement on youtube to make sure that those designations correct that's right and into people could decide not to designate them till children's as when they are indeed correct and in fact. I think there's sensitive there's an incentive to turn a blind eye to it. It because youtube gets a cut of the advertising revenue and it makes more if it's behavioral so if I am a channel owner who has a my little pony videos and I tell you to this isn't children's content. It's just for brownies. I know because I'm the channel owner Youtube can say listen. The channel owner says it's not children's content attend right so it's not children's contacting their hands of it and I was really concerned so I wanted to see some sort of requirement that youtube police the designations and make sure that they're correct uh-huh and that was not in the order and so I was not in the order size. They have very good lawyers. Yeah I mean he's getting answer besides that well. I I actually think the argument I don't have a you know. I don't have a good argument. I think you'd have to ask the majority. It wasn't in the orders Youtube argument they don't WanNa police anything I in fact think they said when they put out a release with the settlement that they were going to be doing policing creating an algorithm but it wasn't required recorders voluntary and in fact I saw some reporting that suggested it was part of the order and I was and I said to the reporters that's not. That's not to do it yeah yeah. They're choosing to fine but there there's no legal backstop in they don't do it. I don't know I mean a cynic would say that again. If you WANNA put on your very cynical glasses it's better for them not to have that requirement of great they make more money on the behavioral advertising right. They have an incentive not to move right off off of it right. They all they do say and again. I've heard this talking point on the Behavioral Advertising Supports Higher Quality Content. I've spent some time on Youtube because I have small children. I'm not particularly impressed with the quality of the content that is child directed in the first instance so the premise of that argument I think they should have a whole nother. U2 Two that's the issue around competition. If it was not attached to Google maybe they would try to think hard about new businesses. Why don't we be the safe place to be and that's the somebody else wanted to come out and the safe place to be for kids? It's very difficult to know impossibly universe and that can lead Stanford Trust Issues which is why they're being looked yeah because there's no way everyone's sort of debating this but I'm like there's not been a new social network. There's not been a new search service. There's not been a new video service. There's not been a new AD thing in the world facebook and Google this leaving aside apple and its APP store which I think is regulatory fixing that sort of just they have some some action ashby done in terms of all these platforms and their power over people or power companies and users both but there's no competition happening. There's no the innovation happening. I mean what's really hard to do is to imagine the but for university innovation because the companies will say well look we have this new product and this new service Chris and whatever but that doesn't tell you what we would have absent right large market share by individual companies and so I would like to see more more innovation I would like to see more opportunities for companies to be able to compete and breakthrough and build up their brand based on quality. How would you react to critics say the government can't make innovation? I think government can make it so innovation will thrive yeah I was about to say we can't make an invasion but we can make room for innovation. That's what the law in fact requires us to do and curbing innovation is an antitrust harm you both there's some controversy right now about whether antitrust price focus right and I think some antitrust consumer armor not right and make lots of people on all sides and I think there is some there are some people who are to price focused. I don't think the laws laws price focus we also look at harms to quality harms to innovation and harms on the other side of the equation an obscenity harms to suppliers to workers occurs which is really important too so I think there's room for that. In the law that said sometimes there are bad legal decisions to make these cases harder to bring and we have to think about that and what would we do but I'd rather us bring the case and be trying to fight for the right outcome and then deal with the the case laws of devolved when we get back I want to talk about Harm society harms to democracy harms that are harder to push and we're going from DC verses big technologist DC but state attorneys generals the Congress consumers which who seem to be slower to complain about this when we get back or here with FTC Commissioner Rebecca Kelly slaughter who can take a quick break right now and we'll be back after this hello listener I'm Sean Rama's firm host of today explained Vox Daily News podcast every day Monday through Friday my I team and I look at what's happening. In the world we pick one essential news story that defines our moment and ask smart people to help us understand it in about twenty minutes or less. It's the perfect way to start her end your day subscribed today explain for free on apple podcasts or in your favorite podcast APP it's from stitcher and and the VOX media podcast network or here with FTC Commissioner Rebecca Kelly slaughter. She's the Demo Democrat Commissioner one of two commissioners You'd like to be one of three. I assume that would be better winning. Being in the majority is one of the things you want cooperation among you all right because one one of your jobs is figuring out a compromise because we don't want any side to have any more power than the other yeah and there were Democrats or Republican revolt was what their incentive attentive to cooperate and to get things done and sometimes I would I I have we've talked about two cases where I've said you would disagree the things on the table or not enough have to get media but there are other situations where I will say listen. If you can make this change I will come on board or I like what you've negotiated. Most of our decisions are still five. Oh and that's a good thing right at tech one. That's been five Oh Uber talk about that. We had a settlement with Uber Uber had a data breach in twenty talking and then another one in two thousand sixteen while the first one was being investigated right so not long after we the new commission started at the the commission finalized a consent order with Uber that impose requirements for data security on it that had been sorely lacking and I just finished non-existent Tim is the word you're looking for has just finished reading super pumped morning so I did. This is all very started. His career was great he is he's a wonderful reporter. Mike Isaac Isaac very fresh in my head right anyway so the FTC finalized consent order with Uber that imposed on them some really meaningful a meaningful data security pretty program and they are now under orders that if they screw up again we can. We can't issue a fine but we can negotiate a fine or see them for a fine right right. We have a very different administration Hubert br too at the same time yes and all of this right happened in in the middle of the administration the leadership turnover right exactly so uber you're on together. Were there together the tick tock the last yes settlement that was tick Tock Chinese company to us so we we investigated they bought a US company called musically and it does make funny dance video videos and they were collecting a lot of children's information information in violation of COPPA so when that settlement came down it was at the time the largest cop penalty which is five point seven million dollars and every time anybody said the largest cop penalty the five point seven million dollars I was like be. We shouldn't say that it's the largest it's not I mean it's a ton of money to me. Yes me too but not a lot not a lot to most companies anyways. That was another unanimous to Kansas this. I haven't suit took the broader idea of being the government suddenly turning anti-tank especially Democrats now look your old boss is pretty it was pretty favorable towards facebook Chuck Schumer and and Democrats in general were sort of Barak Obama everyone was sort of tech is great and then got lots of money from them and it was the Republicans who were less so although not at all not not much not in general it's I it seems first of all both sides are now pretty much on the rampage against them for various reasons. You've got Josh Chali doing his Josh Holly Dance. Whatever some of which is quite good and some which is like what is he doing like Elaine? Stop dance kind of thing but some some of it is on point so it's hard to talk with him because it's understanding because some of it is quite on point and then you've got Senator Warner who I'm talking to this week a whole bunch of stuff that he's working on Senator Klobuchar trying to Michael Bennett is involved. There's all kinds of congressman and state's Attorney General's. Do you think government is now against big tech because you and you can also put them all in one basket. I think it's really hard to do at listen. We're talking about companies that made popular products that people liked and continue to like to use uh-huh right and that we're free to consumers right so it is not surprising to me that these products entered the market and people louder excited about making popular products that people like to use is a good thing we want to be doing that yes sugar but it needs like cookies. needs to be done responsibly and sometimes information about the harms of sugar like long term effects of it. Take a little while to come to life and I think where we are now is. Maybe a little bit sugar hangover where we're seeing some of those effects with clear is than we could in in the first first instance as companies are growing as the use of data's changing as we're learning more about how companies are tracking consumers ars across properties and using that information as we're learning more about the squeeze on the advertising markets all of those things I think it's good for people to evolve in their perspective as facts come to light. This is what we want from our government. I don't think anyone should be vindictive about it. We shouldn't be saying well. I like this company so we shouldn't enforce the law against them. I don't like this company so we should enforce the law against them. We should say what are the actual facts what's happening happening to markets to consumers innovation and where there are problems whoever is perpetrating them we go after but in overall you know Legislative Virginia would be nice like a one that is that that deals with all of them because I think would you tend to have is to when you have consumers who were not. I would say they're not unduly concerned. Wall Street the stocks have never been at higher twitter's at high facebook's a high consumers. Don't seem to be that concerned. There's some they're vaguely concerned. I think they're uh I always say Europe cheap date then 'cause they won. They have one everything from you and you get a free map and also I'm not sure it's entirely because what do we what do like. What do I know exactly and I'm about as well informed as you can get about this? I don't know everything co- companies are doing with what they're collecting. They know about me. There's we we all click through all of those. Yes I agree. Yes I agree. I agree contracts all the time. We don't really have a choice but to click through them right. We don't actually know what's happening so there for a lot of problems that led to this situation and right now all the burden is on consumers to say this is a problem and and I think what you were pointing at and I agree agree with is it would be nice to have a regulatory and legislative framework that shift some of that responsibility onto the companies themselves. They don't WanNa have they don't they seemed seemed almost want to beg for legislation. Although it solutions it's to their liking yeah I get it. I'M NOT GONNA legislative. Dynamic is complicated whether somebody he wants legislation and whether legislation you look at the landscape overall because there's so many different there's like forty investigations having something and obviously the key ones will be the Justice Department and you the FTC and I don't think you should discount the state's attorneys. Joe State's attorney absolutely of course they'll get to a settlement. I think that I think state attorneys general are doing really cigarettes cigarettes exactly so so where where does it come down this idea of what what roll tech should have in society. Should it be more because you've got got not just issues of breaches or data abuse or using your data for the things you have hate speech. You have all kinds of which is not something you all know but it's something I'm really concerned about so I talked recently. I was at silicon flat irons in Colorado and what's coming the Colorado University at Boulders Tech Center her. It's very cool thank you really interesting really thoughtful on privacy and data and they have a lot of great people working there and they had a conference call the near future of US privacy MHM and I spoke there and one of the first things I said was I think when we talk about privacy were framing to narrow concept. We have to think about data abuses more broadly MHM. You can't really separate privacy harms. which are the harms when data is collected about you? Don't WANNA share from the harms that come from data being targeted did that data being used to target information to you or make decisions for our like Algorithm Mc bias manipulative contact fake news yeah yeah exactly I told a story about my son who is seven and really likes Jigsaw Puzzles but we don't have a lot of like analog jigsaw puzzles online jigsaw puzzles yeah because the five year old will be helpful with the puzzles not helpful and the one year old will eat the pieces digital puzzles are great for him and they get more and they can also get. I just was using one get more complex one hundred twenty pieces to go up before you can do pictures of you could take a picture of your sister and do that. I mean great great. He wanted an APP and went on. We have a device that the kids are allowed to use that only has like curated content on it so I went to put it in a puzzle APP on his ipad and there were two options a free one and a pain and I'm a cheap government employees. Put the free one on don't do yeah well. I learned because my husband came back a little while later and Said said what did you put on that child. This isn't FTC commissioner well yeah well listen. I think it's important to own up mistakes and so I said any anytime you can text me. I'll go no yeah. Just don't do it now. This is what I learned times. He said I said why is just puzzle APP and he goes it sitting there playing these the ads for him because it turns out that if you click on watching the ad you get more coins to buy hinge in the puzzle yes he said there were some ads for penny stocks there was also an and for for profit university that was decrying the perils of women in the workforce and my seven year old and this is not our normal context AH super conservative and I was talking about. I don't feel like you should go to work. I was talking about this with with someone else in the space who said his son is really into youtube videos. The focus on conspiracy theories and is now convinced that the moon landing was yes. Yes yes for kids really damaging like joking spins the filter out some of those. There's been a lot of data recently about radicalization particularly of white youth. This is very like this isn't a funny no like I'm telling a funny anecdote but not funny society a Free University wait no no it is because you're trading the guy said I I use the joke cheap date very loosely but you really are for what you're giving up and in the trade not just the financial trade by the way they're making way more money for you then. You're getting in value it's just you're overpaying for what you're getting but then my next level concern is okay fine. I delete that up. Put on the paid one not a problem for me. I'm cheap but I'm not that asleep but not everybody has those resources and it cannot be the case that not just privacy of data abuses is just for the privilege and and poor people have to be more subject to targeted manipulative information one of the food you get the bad food you get the cheap food you get a material in ways that we don't always realize I mean one of the things that I talked about in my facebook to send a little bit was that came to an Olympic is in everybody's mind for what he did. In the two thousand sixteen ecksteen election they were involved in the twenty fourteen elections in the twenty four at the two thousand fourteen. US Senate elections that show that caused the Senate to flip partisan control. I didn't appreciate that before our investigation. Even though it was in the public domain there are material consequences to these things and that's not a partisan uncommon for me. That's a we should want our elections interfered with. We should not want people to be manipulated. Politically we would not should not want children to well deck at this convent. Some people think that's okay so now here you are in this Washington right now. We're right in the middle of this Ukrainian thing which the Republicans at least trump with the Republicans being silent are saying. It's okay to do that okay to allow as even though in this case it's out in the open. It's not even interestingly. I think Democrats don't want to know what to do when it's out in the open. So what if I did it's sort of this. What if I did era so here you are? How do you come because we've got to have smart legislation by both sides of the aisle on this stuff? How do you get to that in this governing situation? You've got the president attacking tech companies indiscriminately and then having them all to the White House. It's it's the same aim behaviors right this is nothing fresh but using twitter and other platforms to do that at the same time as trying to strong arm them into pudding manufacturing green units or whatever he wants. I'm not really clear tacking jeff visas but really use it hacking the Washington Post and so how do you then create with a bulk of people who are not crazy like this to create registrations. It's smart for the Internet not overreaching. How does that happen legislation but rulings so I will tell you that in in my current capacity at the FTC what I try really hard to do and what I think all of my colleagues do and I will defend them on on this too is to tune out some of that noise put our head down own? Look at the case. Look at the facts look at the law and figure out what is the right thing to do and do that and I think that's good. That's what we need to be doing in terms of a legislative approach on all things and not just now legislations challenging and I know that from the time I spent on the hill I will say that you know I know a lot of the staff who we're working on privacy and tech legislation and I know a lot of the members and they are smart and they have integrity on and they are very thoughtful about what to do and I think they are particularly thoughtful about future proofing and making sure they're not yeah. It's a very writing in a twenty nineteen law that is going to be not just a relevant but affirmatively unhelpful unhelpful in three five years of the way I've been describing it the FTC in connection or at around the same time as we announced the Youtube case we announced that we're reviewing the cop a rule one of the few areas where we have some more facile rule-making authorities on COPPA. Yeah people can't agree yeah and so we announced. It's that we're doing that and somebody said well. You just did that. Seven years ago like that's pretty recent and that was like taxpayers are like dog years. Seven years is a lifetime what was going on youtube seven years ago yeah. We need to be make sense that we're updating A. R. A. R. Everything Yeah Yeah exactly so I think that we can think about it. I want us to think aggressively I want us to to really be listening to all the voices and especially the civic society advocates the consumer advocates not just companies should listen to companies and we should always consider the source of what we're we're hearing what is in somebody's interest finish up talking about two things one is do you imagine that there should be an internet agency Consi a separate that it's in the FTC's and if and if not what do you all need besides more money and lawyer obviously that's would would do it like more a stronger charge essentially but should there. I mean Nancy. Pelosi brought this up. I think a lot of a lot of congressional people brought this up to me. Should there be Internet agency. There's an SEC. There's stuff that handles banks in the stock market and all kinds of key industries. This is an industry that doesn't have that yeah and most European countries at this point have a data protection agency that it's not specific Internet but it is specific data issues. Here's what I will say the fact that the FTC does both consumer protection protection and competition makes it to me not just a good but an important place in the house Internet. They're often related. They are related and I worry that if we had a data agency agency agency that did data that he would lose some of the key the competition Lens. I think is really important to apply to some of these questions and and make sure that that expertise is there now part of why I think it's important to articulate a different view for how we handle. Some of these cases is to make the case to the people that I think the. FTC is capable of doing this work and I think it can do it. I think it has some limitations in the law but I think it can do it. It isn't a question of we need to throw out this agency and start from scratch but I think we need to have the will to be aggressive and creative and thoughtful and then in terms of what else we need resources for sure resources resources is I think we really need to staff up on technologists in particular to make sure we're understanding what we do. I also think that we could use better rulemaking authority uh-huh right now we have this sort of I describe it as the cranky neighbor has normally we'll make your mouth yeah. The magma's Romay takes a long time. You have to go through a process for the record. I actually think it's worth US doing a data protection rulemaking under magma's now again trying seen what we can do but better are more facile rulemaking authority would be useful the ability to issue fines for first instance violations or at least seek them would be really valuable. There's some bad case law out there about whether and how we can get money to help provide redress to consumers I would like that to be fixed. We also right now. Don't have the authority to go to court on our own to seek money. We have to get. DJ's permission right. That's not great. I would like to not have that so there are a lot of tweets of the law I think could really use up my agent agent. You have semi powers of Yeah I mean I think our hands are tied in a lot of meaningful ways. We should still fight with that tied hand by the army's about those agency that would just say let's just start from scratch. I just worry that doing not is high cost for limited benefit and Dan Risks Losing some of the Lens that we have again from the competition consumer protection side together right. I think it's a fair point or finishing up. What would you liked to see from these tech? Companies say something good about them and then say what they need to start thinking about if you're you're talking to Silicon Valley right now so let's start with a positive thing so again I think these are love and he'll taught me do also love air pods very pleasantly surprising and I think that there are companies that are trying to innovate on privacy issues and and consumer protection issues. That's important. I think these companies are making like I said products that people like that in many ways make our lives better and easier I would like them to focus focus on how to maximize those benefits and make sure that they don't come at the cost of personal privacy or autonomy and they are really conscientious and forward thinking about avoiding problems and actually think this is an across the industry across the economy Konami problem this sort of short termism bottomline thinking the companies are really interested in the short term problems that they have to deal with and making money for tomorrow Oh and their immediate return and their immediate stock price sure and returning to some long term thinking about investment in the workforce and investment in the economy would be really valuable and do you spend a lot of time with Silica Tech People. I'm just using Silicon Valley's and as a catchall term but it's a lot of them. Are there so a lot less time now in this the job than I have done in my previous job because I don't like to talk to companies that are under investigation which is outside of the scope of the investigation and outside of the staff and I don't liked to create impressions about who is under investigation so I have a pretty open door and we'll meet with anyone who wants to talk to me and many of these companies I have occasion to talk to in the of course of investigations but whereas my previous job I had a lot more continuous contact with lots of different relationships with them or not. I think it yeah I mean listen. Being smart is important important and being smart involves being informed and being informed. I think includes talking to the people who are actually doing the work and understanding at least their explanation for why they're making a decision they're under making you know you have to filter everything through the Lens of WHO's speaking but I think getting that information is valuable and I've never said you know occasionally. They have executives in town. They asked to come meet and I always say yes because I think that those conversations are important. It doesn't change my enforcement outlook and I also think it's good actually think it's good to be transparent in the other direction to share my perspective and make clear that I have a pretty even hinted view of application of the law and I tend to be the impressed by and there there. I have one more fun I their idea that they need. You need to be careful at regling because of China because of China's principally they don't really I care about Russia or any other country listen. I'm concerned about China. I think they're really material. National security issues are also in the Senate in addition to handling tech and telecom an antitrust consumer consumer protection. I did a fair amount of national security work. I think there are real reasons to be concerned about China but I also think that there's some things like I have a few pet peeves about excuses or what I think of his code words that people say to excuse not doing something they include because China because has blockchain because ai yeah and because five G. and most of the time people say those four things without any color about like what does that mean what what specifically are we concerned about right where it not located and how do we change it and I so. I don't think we can just say well. We can't regulate tech because China Anna like that doesn't resonate right me. Particularly we should be concerned about China. We should be careful. We should think seriously about the national implicate national security implications particularly on the infrastructure center are doing because China because a I because blockchain a blockchain and five G. in particular words that people use to me like Matt Taffeta Magic Yeah Heck Magic this attack magic will solve all of our things five gee. I don't know if you've heard five years going to solve all of allegedly from one thirty already on your phone yeah. I'm hoping to be dead by then you're just an. Ai People used to mean like computer magic right blockchain again. I think they're I think that people use to me. They feel very like marketing and that's fine if you're using them to mean what they actually mean but but I find it actually when people use them as a will you maybe couldn't understand this. It's this very technologically complicated but really important thing that you don't WanNa screw. Yes exactly exactly I you know we didn't even get to Amazon which will do in our another another time. Are you are you guys can't comment comment. Oh my goodness someone is they're being investigated. Also we'll get to that but there are still sort of in the bucket of these big platforms and listen. I think they're reasonable. Questions being raised about all the very large companies right reasonable question should all be investigated one hundred hundred percent and immediately facebook dating. You need to get on that. We are important question should all be investigated percents dating. I just don't I'm sorry they can't have that. They can't have that they can't have that. I'm going to get no comment. Don't don't even come in anyway. Thank you commissioner slaughter. I would love have you come back on the show and we'll talk about more as these things begin to develop but I do think it's really important. Government has an and needs to people who are elected in you're not elected but the the government is elected by the people and should have representation these companies is critically important and I think it's important to be transparent. I WanNa know everything you you gave away. The minimum I can do is be transparent about how I'm John. Love your essays and I would urge everyone to read her descents on some of these things because as they do give you a lot of insight into what went on between the commissioners which is perfectly fine. That's you know you've got to be in the in the public anyway. You can follow me on twitter at Cara Swisher. My executive producer Eric Anderson is an Eric America. My producer Eric Johnson is at hey hey. Es J. Commissioner slaughter where can people find you online and the FTC. I am on twitter at archaic slaughter. FTC PC and the FTC itself has FTC FTC Commissioner. Three of the other commissioners are onto onto all right. If you like this episode we really appreciate it if you shared it with a a friend buzz with all the FTC should be on twitter. Yes they should. I'm all of them. All the different services maybe not instagram and make sure to check out our other podcasts recode media pivot and land of the giants just search for them on our podcasting APPs of choice. Thanks also to our editor Joe Robbie. Thank you for listening to this episode of Rico Decode. I'll be back here on Wednesday tune in then hi. It's John Genero Executive Producer Reserve espy nations team podcasts the NFL season is finally here and if you're like me you're looking for a podcast that covers your team so you can get caught up on all the relevant news and opinions and on your way to work or school espy nation has got you covered. We've created thirty two. NFL podcast one for each team's fan base hosted by fans of that team. I mean if you're looking for a deeper funnier Nerdier and more authentic podcast experience than anywhere else you want to check it out not every. NFL Fan is the same in espy nation is here for the ones that want to hear about their team. Subscribe today and you'll get new episodes for news game previews and recaps in-depth analysis and more find the podcast cash for your favorite football team at S._P. NATION DOT com slash N._F._L. PODCAST that's SB nation dot com
Spotlight: How The FTC Could Hurt The Future Of Cancer Research
"The federal trade commission is taking actions that will hinder the fight against cancer. It's time to abolish this destructive agency. Hello i'm steve forbes. And this is what's ahead. We you get the insights you need to better navigate. These turbulent times the federal trade commission was created over century ago ostensibly to protect consumers from fraud and corporate monopolies on. Fortunately this government body now is doing more harm than good and should be terminated one deadly example of how the ftc is hurting the public instead of protecting is unprecedented. An underhanded actions to block a biotech deal that could hasten the ability of a new form of cancer testing that can detect numerous forms of this dread disease before their symptoms the acquiring company called in china wants to acquire a company called grail outfit that has developed a type of tests that can detect fifty different kinds of cancer with a high degree of accuracy. The test itself involves only drawing blood. It's a perfect fit in that. Aluminum makes equipment to process that tests and can assist grail with getting fda approval not to mention dealing with other potential obstacles at the ftc. Is gone all out to obstruct the merger even going so far as colluding with antitrust officials in europe to delay or kill the deal how in the world can you claim a monopoly for market. That doesn't yet exist. Turns out other companies are working on tests that might compete with grill and want to use the ftc to help out by hobbling grill by delaying the introduction of life-saving testing the early detection of cancer. The better the odds of besting at the ftc's engaging lethal and immoral behavior while the aluminum grille is particularly agree. Gis the agency has been behaving erratically. And in a high handed manner for years for instance the supreme court recently ruled nine to zero that. The ftc was acting illegally when not only obtaining junction against companies agency thought were engaging and fraud. That's fine but also imposed stiff fines that over time ran into the billions of dollars. A high court said. The ftc can impose funds without growing through proper legal procedures. Ftc went after a high tech titan. While com rebuffed not only in federal court was also posed by the justice department. The agency is notorious for acting prosecutor. Judge and jury and actions that brings and heavily pressuring companies and individuals to get the results. The agency wants the. Ftc's activities especially antitrust can be turned over the justice department. In the meantime the white house and congress should pressure the ftc to cease truly pernicious acts against alumina. I'm steve forbes. Thanks for listening. Do send in your comments and suggestions. I look forward to being with you. So it again.
The common theme with the biggest tech companies: walled gardens
"This marketplace podcast is sponsored by merrill with merrill guided investing. You have the option to work with an adviser at a low cost and minimum get started at merrill edge dot com slash investing goals merrill lynch pierce fenner and smith inc. both registered broker dealer and investment advisor members. Sipc anti-cyber reason. If you're a defender fighting to protect your organization from cyber attackers you must be successful ending attacks every single time. They only need to be successful. Wants cyber reason reverses the attackers advantage their future ready attacked platform gives defenders the wisdom to uncover understand and piece together multiple threats and the precision focused to end cyber-attacks instantly together. We are the defenders cyber reason and cyber attacks from points to everywhere learn more at cyber reason dot com. What's the common theme with the biggest tech companies. Their walled gardens from american public media. This is marketplace tech. I'm ali would. The european union is proposing new regulations on big tech companies and how they use their data potentially to the detriment of competing companies. That of course is on the heels of the ftc in forty six states suing facebook and the ftc opening investigations into lots of other tech companies. And one thing that both you and the ftc say is that these big tech companies imposed conditions on third party developers that operate on their platforms. That are anti-competitive. Apple has been criticized over. its app. Store rules amazon over how it treats third party sellers. The eu regulations would determine some companies to be quote gatekeepers subject to different rules. Mark lemony is a law professor at stanford we view some actions that are fine when engaged in by an ordinary business. More problematic when they are engaged in by a monopoly. They can become a problem if the monopolist is making decisions of who to a allow access to and who not to allow access to in order to try to prevent anyone who might facilitate a competitive threat. Well then let's dig more into these conditions that these tech companies impose and their relative size because you know the other company that has been in the spotlight of course for imposing conditions that may be anti-competitive on third party. Developers is apple. So where does apple fall in the fine line spectrum right so i think traditionally apple hasn't had as much to worry about because it was harder to make the claim that apple is a monopolist but its share of sales of computers has never been particularly high and even cell phones its share has been growing in the united states but it's not a dominant player. There are other competitors with significant market share. That said i do think that one plausible potential argument is that while apple faces competitors in the phone ecosystem. Once you have an apple phone you are locked into it or once. You decided to develop an app for an apple phone. You were locked into it and so among apple phone users. The control they exercise through the app store does seem more like like a monopoly for a particular locked in group of apple users. There's been so much focused in the ftc case against facebook. On the the break-up part of it but you know we're talking about apple. Amazon has been the target of very similar complaints about control of its ecosystem and third party sellers and even you know video creators. I wonder if this third party app system aspect of this case isn't a little bit of a hidden headline. i think that's exactly right. I think this is the stealth part of the case. That's probably the most important. We'll see it in. Google will see it in amazon and we see the allegations in facebook and then it applies as well to apple and the idea of self referencing. The tech industry for most of its history has largely been an open and interoperable place. You could write any software you want to run on a pc. There's no gatekeeper. Who says hey. This software is allowed. The software is not allowed. Enclosed ecosystem nominally closed ecosystems like video games. Companies tried to break in and got sued for intellectual property infringement. But they won the court said. Hey you can write a video game to run on the sony platform. Whether or not he wants you to. There's no ability to lose offer lockdown what gets included in my platform. What's interesting to me about the mobile space in particular and the modern social media world is that we've seemed to have kind of drifted into a closed rather than an open ecosystem. So i think the big antitrust push that we might expect in part in these government cases is a push to try to open links to those platforms to say. I should be able to put an app on. Somebody's phone once they own that phone. Whether or not apple wants me to would you say it all depends on future lawsuits like if the ftc is successful lawsuit against facebook or the doj is successful in its case against google. Could that end up changing the whole third party apps hasim is that a direction for future regulation absolutely and so i think one question is you could imagine that happening through successfully antitrust suits so an example involving apple right. Now is the suit by epic games against apple over the fortnight game which is one of the most popular video games in the world. It's loaded through the app store. Fortnight has a bunch of in game purchases and they don't wanna pay thirty percent of all of the things on the fortnight ecosystem to apple in order to get access to people who used to play the game through an apple phone so you could imagine anti-trust cases whether it's the government case against facebook or a private case against apple establishing the principle that interoperability is required at least when the platform is a dominant player. But you could also imagine this being the basis of regulation You know that may be more likely in europe frankly than Than in the united states the united states has historically resisted the idea of regulation and since it seems likely. We're going to continue to have a divided congress. I'm not sure how much legislation is possible in this area. Although it is worth noting that both republicans and democrats albeit for different reasons have taken some aim at the tech industry. When it comes to anti-trust a big question seems to be you know. They're like four or five dominant players whereas monopoly used to be defined by one and we have said occasionally they all have very different business models and so it's hard to pin down like who's anti-competitive wear but it actually seems like maybe it's more straightforward when we then we think right like the is ecosystems. Yeah i think the. I think the real problem is walled gardens. Once you're in a platform network the platform has every incentive to sort of keep you there and the ability to do that while controlling how you experience it is something that we generally just didn't have in the era and i do think it is a fundamental shift in how people experience technology mark lumley professor at stanford where he teaches antitrust and internet law companies determined to be gatekeepers in the you would face potential fines of up to ten percent of their global revenue for any violations and now for some related links in responding to the us new draft regulations. Facebook said basically. Hey what about apple which to be. Honest is the question. I had that led to this interview and then as it sometimes happened turned out we stumbled upon this bigger idea of ecosystems and well yeah gatekeepers which does seem like a useful framework for discussing competition when the sort of obvious and traditional antitrust and monopoly definitions at least in the. Us don't totally apply but facebook made a specific point of providing statement to reuters. Saying it hopes that you use new digital markets act would quote also said boundaries for apple and said quote apple controls an entire ecosystem from device to app store and apps and uses this power to harm developers and consumers as well as large platforms like facebook. Apple did not respond. Reuters also reported tuesday that facebook would move all its users in the uk into user agreements based in california mostly because of brexit. Google did the same thing back in february of this year. And this is kind of a funny story of tax evasion and geopolitics and regulation so hang with me see facebook. Google had historically had european headquarters in dublin because of a long standing tax evasion scheme a loophole that ireland allowed that earlier. This year caused the irs to sue facebook saying it owes the us more than nine billion dollars in unpaid taxes. Facebook actually stopped running global revenues through the irs unit. Back in twenty thousand seventeen. Google didn't stop taking advantage of the tax loophole until the very end of twenty nineteen but they still had these central offices and now with brexit while ireland is staying with europe. Which of course has the toughest privacy laws in the world at this point. Getting tougher every day. So why stay there right. No tax benefits anymore and then also that thing and august where irish regulators actually tried to stop facebook from ever transferring data on any of its customers out of the eu. A hearing on that order actually happened tuesday yesterday and a lawyer. Facebook said the rules would have quote devastating consequences for facebook's business and would be quote irreversible. This just not as friendly a joint as it used to be. I guess i'm molly would and that's marketplace tech. This is a pm at marketplace. Its generosity from listeners. Like you that keeps our nonprofit newsroom. Going strong and right now facts matter more than ever to say. Thanks for your support. We made a marketplace face mask as a bonus gift it even has adjustable ear loops and space to add a filter. Show you care about people around you and about credible news. That has you covered. Give any amount today at marketplace dot org slash give tech to get your marketplace mask that's marketplace dot org slash give tech and thanks this marketplace. Podcast is supported by rubric. The company that offers radically simplified data management for the cloud with instant data recovery and ransomware protection. Because when your data is available for everything you can be ready for anything for more visit. Rubric dot com.
AT&T has a blimpand its a huge blimp #046
"This week from GNC Week in review. Power by Geek News Central Dot Com. At and T. has a blimp and it's a huge blimp. Also they are back in court as. At and T.. Customers or filing lawsuits read. It looks back at twenty one thousand nine hundred and the findings may surprise you the FCC says t mobile all and Bryson or exaggerating about four G.. Plus illegal callers could be charged. Those are some of the Tech News Stories Miss Week and it's Saturday December seventh twain. Nineteen my name is Kirk cordless in as the forty six of the GNC week in review. podcast most proud partner of the tech podcast network. They bit stuck. It's here thank you so much for tuning in. Excuse me thank you so much for tuning in for this week's episode. If you're a new listener please be sure to subscribe to podcasts. We can find the right hand side column at GNC. Weekly Dot Com be apple podcast Schuylkill podcasts. Your favorite podcast APP for Android or on tune INS by the virus. It sure you have a comment suggestion WANNA say hi be it social media or email and that all can be found at GNC weekly dot com forward slash connect. We're GONNA jump in with the Tech News Stories Miss Week and from Geek News Central Dot Com and this week's tech news is a little late navy's because the holiday season's upon us but there is still tech news this week and leading off this week is I met the nationwide broadband network for for responders being built. At and T.. Just add giant blimp. The that defied aerostatic stat dubbed I met one is meant to hover over disastrous lights and provide wireless communication brush responders. At and T.. Says it will provide better coverage I and I and that's other assets and will be able to remain in the air for longer for one flies at one thousand feet which means it can cover more area than other solutions lucians. Excuse me it is fully operational and wind up to fifty miles per hour and Stan. Wind speeds of up to seventy miles per hour is able to remain. Airborne brought a two weeks before it needs some helium by using force net one. At and T.. Will be able to ploy view or smaller smaller assets. At and T.. And first net tests the blimp in Tuskegee Alabama. It hasn't been sent a disaster disaster zone yet but eighteen. He says it could be used. An event hurricanes blooding wildfires burst. One will be able to offer a snack. Subscribers more than ten thousand public safety agencies unseasoned organizations have signed up the register dot co Dot. UK is reporting this week last month. The FCC finally reached agreement with at and T. following a five year legal battle in which detail goat Telco Goliath argued successfully at one point that the government regular regulator had no authority authority over it. The six million dollar figure of the FCC FTC decided on was a little lower than the one hundred million fine one hundred million million dollar fine. It's just a regulator the FCC levied against at and T. for screwing over people with unlimited data plans while that all was going issues issue is going on with the FTC a group of at and T.. Customers were suing a network operator over the same beef. They are fuming. Over there fuming actor discovering their quilt unlimited plans are actually rather limited in that connections were throttled downloading more than two gigabytes in any given month that consumer lawsuit filed a US District Court in California was pulling hold twice I on legal grounds then to see what happened with the FTC case this now this month is back up and running and then customers want to know what information the FTC managed drag. At and T. in its lawsuit. At and T.. For for its part thinks that the FTC element should be at the end of the matter as applied for the quote confidential information agape the TC to remain sealed it also told told the judge and the consumer case says angry customers are now happy following the FTC agreement. And there's no need for the case continues. Continue Excuse me those new customers only disagreement of accuse. At and T.. Up taking the words out of context by using quote parcel out of order and out of context quotation. So so what's at stake now. The there's a filing from the consumers who stated quote in the filing quote the information in question which is currently currently redacted version includes the number of eligible customers eligible the number of eligible customers eligible for the twelve dollar thirty one dollar payments under the FTC agreement and information related to how the FTC calculators. Assertion that the sixty million dollar amount of the FTC agreement represents between three two percent and forty seven percent of the FTC's potential recovery where the FTC's FTC's claim it notes that at Fanti claims that the information is confidential but also points out that the court in the FTC case has ordered the federal the federal regulator to explain it's sixty million dollar or settlement. The filing also continues are going quote. The affected and aggrieved consumers. Have the right to know the underlying basis the FTC agreement as the Courts as the court's order implicitly recognizes including how many customers will be eligible for payments and what it mounts and pretty FTC's he sees public claim of this supposed percentage of potential FTC recovery the FTC agreement monetary figure represents now consumers are a newly frustrated with the FTC. Not Coming to its aid. The regulator is trying to stay neutral telling the court that it has quote not taking a position on the issue but the customers customers are not having any quote respectively the FTC should be insisting. At and T.. Perhaps to the will the information we thought publicly under the circumstances this. At and T.. Has responded register when asked to comment quilt even know it has been years since we apply this network management tool in the way. Describe the FTC. We we believe the settlement isn't the best interest of consumers in a year. In retrospect retrospective release on Wednesday read. It says user base grew thirty percent this year to reach four hundred thirty million monthly active users as the end of October its users also contributed one hundred ninety nine million posts one point seven billion comments and the three two billion up boats last year. Read it reported three hundred thirty million monthly active users the bigger than twitter monthly comments and monthly views also up on annual basis in Tori nineteen with increases of three or four percent three seven percent. Excuse me and thirty eighty four percent respectively the most uploaded post this year referenced. Right it's fundraiser. fundraise gives me let my China's tencent which in February lead read. It's thirty three hundred Million Dollar Series D.. Dowling the site at three billion dollars users were concerned the time that the investment would lead to a Chinese censorship hip which led him to flood a slight with images that would be forbidden in China. One of these a photo of quote tank man teen of square then became up. Would've post with two hundred twenty thousand uploads. Meanwhile the most uploaded Ama or ask me anything. Posted a site was with Bill Gates which received one hundred ten thousand votes read. It also noted a number of trends across it's more than one hundred thousand active in communities including sizeable increases is no top fifty beauty install communities which growth sixty three plus percent and fifty percent to thirty two percent plus your year respectively. The we are slash skin-care addiction community was the most popular beauty community reaching over one million subscribers wedding focus radic communities also grew with our slash wending our slash weddings under ten K.. Up by one hundred and nine percent. Excuse me I tell you and our slash bridezillas up eight hundred fifty two percent year over year family and parenting communities grew by eighty percent eighty seven percent year over year the top food communities it through grew thirty percent year year and several spirits focused communities grew through our slash akilah plus nine percent or slash whiskey plus fifty two percent or slash vodka. Forty plus forty eight percent are slash Bourbon plus twenty seven percent and our slash winemaking plus sixteen percent. The top fifty fitness wellness communities grew by thirty percent. News was also a big focus on reddit this year with the top fifty news communities growing by seventeen. Percents your ear. This year top stories included Robert Mueller's hearings the current impeachment query they Hong Kong protests climate change and more are slash politics. Remain the top news community elsewhere on the site. The top deep the top fifty entertainment communities grew by twenty seven percent. The top fifty sports computer smart sports communities grew thirty four percent and the top gaming communities grew forty. Two percent. A bipartisan bill. Oh passed in the US. House of Representatives on Wednesday would require phone carriers to offer free robocall blocking free. Excuse me to offer free robocall blocking services to customers and give the Federal Communication Commission and the Diploma Justice Permission to punish illegal callers. The PELLUMB Thune traced act passed by afford four hundred seventeen to three and will now move on to the Senate bill author representative. Frank Pallone Junior. Who is a Democrat? The Crap New Jersey said in a press release quote these calls not as annoying in a lot of instances they are scams targeted at consumers and unfortunately gently these scams or becoming more civic sophisticated every day. All these scams are different and won't be a single silver bullet to fix them all. But the Saloon Thune traced act attacks the problem multiple angles the bill also required the FCC to work to stop one ring scams and help the FCC. In phone carrier's tracing caught up trace and cut off start to companies that set up the number of illegal calls it would also also protect patients doctors and hospitals from these calls. The excuse me Robert Fisher reisen senior senior vice president federal. The government of Gut Pedal Governor Fair sentence statement quote rebel Colorado's artificially on notice the House of Representatives today scored a big win for consumers Mersin businesses with the overwhelming and bipartisan pastor. They pallone Thune traced. This legislation will ensure widespread call altantic. Heysham the the ability for end users a block any any all unwanted calls and creates stronger enforcement mechanisms and increased penalties for the bad actors responsible for these annoying and harassing robocalls. Bryson t mobile. And you'll sell you use cellular exaggerate or forty coverage facial filings the Federal Communication Location Commission. This is where a FC investigation found but FCC officials confirm that chairman zt Pied is not plan to punish the three carries any way instead the FCC intends to issue enforcement enforcement advisory broader industry. Remind reminding carriers quote of the penalties associated with filings that violate federal law the FCC stop said an investigative report that would be least quote overstating mobile broadband coverage misleads leeza public and can allocate our limit universal response and thus thus it must be met with consequences and that c. c. a spokesperson told ARS TECHNICA ARS TECHNICA DOT COM v. e. mail quote based upon the totality of the circumstances. The investigation did not the find a sufficiently clear violation of the two or mobility fun face to data collection requirements that warranted enforcement action in Unicol with reporters as senior. FTC official said the commission staff was unable to determine whether the carriers exaggerations were deliberate. The official said that the investigation investigation did not establish a clear violation of the obey specific role the FCC officials said that map submitted by carriers based on industry standard propagation should models and the FCC's own has made it clear that those industry models do not reflect on the ground experience. FCC officials didn't voluntary you bring up a topic of Wetter T.. Mobile Cellular will be punished for exaggerating coverage but FCC officials confirmed that Pie does not intend to take enforcement action rooted in response to a question from a reporter during the press call and they're responsible question ars technica via email but pie does agree with all recommendations to FCC see staff made in his report include recommendation to including the including the recommendation to issue enforcement advisory to industry while all the SEC said it found no evidence of violation of Mobility Fund rules. The commission has yet to determine whether kyrghz violated rules in separate four in a separate form. Four seven seven data collection program. FCC staff made recommendations. One of them is quote. The commission should analyse unverified provide technical mapping data submitted. Let me start over I apologize. The commission should analyze and verify. The technical mapping data submitted in most recent form four seven seven filings of resume U. S. cellular and T. Mobile to determine whether they meet the form for seventy seven requirements stop recommends that the Commission Assemble a team with the request with the requisite expertise and resources to audit the accuracy of mobile brand in coverage map submitted to the commission. The Commission should consider sticking the commission should further consider seeking appropriations from Congress to carry out DR testing extinct as appropriate while form while form four seven seven currently at four providers significant discretion in determining their mobile robin coverage. This discussion does not encompass reporting inaccurate mobile coverage across the central areas in which consumers cannot receive any wireless signal whatsoever. Ever AIRBNB has confirmed that will ban quote all that will ban all quote open invite House parties. This is where the company said that blog. I post it will also provide a clear quote A.. Clear and actionable enforcement framework broader issues including noise unauthorized guests on authorized parking unauthorized. Smoking and major cleanliest concerns requiring excessive cleaning apper. Checkout AIRBNB has always prohibited quilt has has always permitted prohibited. SKEWS ME getting tongue tied again here. I Apologize AIRBNB. Has Always Prohibited Quilt Unauthorized House House parties thrown without the consent of the host. However it is now institute a global ban on any event organizer opens up to anyone wants attended ended such as gatherings advertise on Social Media Trust Arab airbnb? VP of trust Margaret Britches and also says. Did anyone trying to circumvent. The ban will be subject to quote consequences including count suspension or removal from the platform. On top of that AIRBNB has also also banned large parties apartment buildings condos other multifamily residences. The company said it would still allow will allow authorize imitations patiently partying the single family home. wellings quote that respect a home the host house rules and surrounding neighborhood. Plex is a company best known for helping people organize their own media collection is getting destroying where thousands of free movies. TV shows extreme. Sports Films Music Documentaries. His body would musicals have been unlocked inside the plex APP. The ad-supported video-on-demand services available to more than two hundred countries anyone with a free plex account. There's no pays shines Peter's content for major studios including Metro Golden Mayor or MGM Lionsgate Legendary and Winter Brunner's with movies for example American Ultra Frequency Lord of war rainman raging bull determinator. Thelma and Louise and apocalypse now all feature feature with more movies set bad future now if you already have plex user a free to watch category it'd be unlocked using a movies as an TV skew will be unlocked under a movies and TV ON PLEX sidebar item. Allow you to allow you to position alongside your existing collections if you have never use plex before it has apps on all major smart. TV's ensuring boxes. Meaning you can add it to your console Roku Apple. TV The Amazon Fire TV android TV boxes as well as android devices. Plex is offering. Doesn't come at a price but does come with ads. And even if you are a plex plex past us scrubber which unlocks numerous features for streaming and managing a personal collection these new movies and TV shows will still be punctuated by ads. Plex says it will serve only about one third the amount ad on cable television and while that some movie moving TV shows would be restricted. The quote vast majority of content will be available worldwide. Keith Keith Valerie. PLEX CEO says quote. Hello Plex was born of Passion for Media and entertainment and offering free ad-supported premium movies and TV. Shows is just the latest step in our mission into bring all your favorite content together in one place with started more than a big more than a decade ago as a passion project to make accessing media the on the devices easier has evolved into the most comprehensive streaming platform in the industry used by millions of people around the world. Excuse me take a quick quick drink freshman and finally in the GNC W. I. R.. What's trending this week over on Google trends trending last week at number for one with ten million searches Walmart trending on twitter today? A number five with one hundred forty thousand one hundred forty forty seven thousand tweets anthea Anthony Joshua and lastly turning on youtube at number one with forty million views YouTube Bob rewind Twain Nineteen and that is the tech news of this week so again little light on Tech News. I sorry but a lot. It didn't happen. Thank you so much for tuning in. If this week's episode show notes from this episode can be found at GNC weekly dot com also. Be Sure to check the last Tech News and commentary from Geek News under Dot Com and tune in Monday's and Thursday evenings at Geek news central dot com for slash. Live or the the Geek news central podcast and this podcast Friday evening at GNC DOT com reading me to describe on your favorite podcast APP for your latest episode episode. You have a comment. You have a thought what to say. Hi Lo to hear from you. All be it social media email facebook twitter g mail that can be found around at GNC weekly dot com forward slash connect. You WanNa find out what I'm doing nowadays. Please be sure to follow. I am on on twitter. I am at at Kirk. Cordless would have spelled K. R. K. C. O. R. L. E. S.. So please give me a follow now back next week for an episode of G._N._C.. Week in review podcast till them so long.
The FTC has no chief technologist as it weighs big tech investigations
"This marketplace podcast is brought to you by pinata for businesses. And universities Panatta was everything YouTube isn't with enterprise grade security Bilton recording and live streaming and a unique search engine that finds any words spoken in any video Panatta was how professionals share knowledge and by Oregon state university campus wanna take the fast track to your career and computing, earn your computer science degree one hundred percent online from Oregon state and tap into unlimited career possibilities in any field. Learn more at e campus dot Oregon, state dot EDU slash tech. The FTC is the cop on the tech beeps. But who explains the tech to the agency from American public media? This is marketplace tech demystifying the digital economy. I'm Molly would. The Federal Trade Commission is the agency that can find or prosecute tech companies over unfair or anti-competitive consumer practices. The current FTC chair. Just assignments has said he'll set up a task force to address tech issues specifically, but there is one empty chair at the agency the chief technologist who supposed to give advice on tech and policy the role has existed since two thousand ten but it's been empty for about a year. And some critics are worried Nielsen had the job last. He's now a research fellow at the Charleston coke institute. I asked him if he thought the FTC is missing some important tech expertise. The chief technologist has typically been an academic who sticks around for about a year and elevates an issue. And so, you know, FTC cases span many years often. And I don't think it's ever been the case that the primary tech expert on any case was the chief technologist that just hasn't been the role that they play on when staff needs and. Expert, they'll go out and hire somebody who is an expert very specifically on the issue that they're investigating. And so I do think that technologist role is important, but it's important, and how it serves of the chairman's agenda, and how it helps elevate a specific issues that the FTC might be dealing with and less so on the sort of day to day litigation that current chairman is considering this task force. What do you think is the best approach? Well, I would say that the task force is very focused on competition issues, which is on half of the FTC's mission. It's less focused on or may not be focused at all on the sort of consumer protection side. And so I do think I think the commission will have to continue to build its expertise and think hard about how it's going to play a role in the consumer protection side. And I know it's doing that. But this task force is not really focused on that. Do you think I guess just as follow into that? Do you think your old job should be filled that that should be a priority? You know, that's really up to chairman Simon's. I do think that it has a way what way of thinking you're out. Now, like, you can give us your opinion. Do you think that's an important role for the FTC? Have. I do think technical expertise is important for the FTC to have. I don't know that it needs to sit in the chairman's office. I think if what we're trying to do is bring smarter sharper cases, the agency needs tech expertise throughout its bureaus and divisions. Now, a chief technologist could help facilitate that and I know in the past has been one of the missions of chief chief technologist to highlight areas within the agency that could use more technical expertise. I do think that that the chief technologist could help strengthen the FTC's tech chops. But it isn't the only way that the agency could achieve that. And ultimately if the ultimate goal is to get good tech people in to bring cases, they need to be throughout the agency. You mentioned the chief technologist elevates a single. Issue. Can you tell us what yours was? Sure. Absolutely. So my big focus was on informational injury. And this is the question of how do we assess measure and analyze the types of injury that happened to consumers from data security incidents or privacy incidents. And this is a tough question. Because people don't always agree on what injury is there's a lot of different definitions. And then even when people do agree it can be challenging to measure certain types of injury. And so in my role as chief technologist, I helped put together an informational injury workshop that brought in experts from the legal academy and from the the economic academy and from the technical academy, and but them together and talked about a lot of these issues and let me try to break. This Santa little you were you were endeavouring to come up with like a framework for measuring harm as a result of privacy, intrusions or breaches. So that's the ultimate goal. Goal is to be able to identify the injuries that happen to consumers and to be able to measure them because it is important to build a measure something if you want to be able to address it if it's a problem. How would we know if we succeeded if we can't tell whether or not the problem is greater or smaller after we've tried something? And so it really does it is very important to be able to try to measure injury to try to quantify it and to identify if we can't quantify it how might we figure out proxies ways that we can estimate injury in a way that helps us evaluate the things that we are trying to resolve Neil tailfin is the former chief technologist at the FTC. The agency is reportedly deciding whether Facebook violated a twenty eleven consent decree with the FTC where it promised to be more careful with user data the agency doesn't comment on ongoing investigations, but there is potential for billions of dollars in fines. And now for some related links part of what sparked this interview with Neil is that another former FTC chief technologist Ashburn Sultani tweeted last month that he thought it was short sighted, not to have that role billed especially as the FTC is working on these technical issues around Facebook and privacy specifically and some critics have said this idea of tech. Taskforce sounds pretty toothless, but to be fair it does sound like the FTC is crack Alaskan on some tougher tech policy. Our friend of the show Cecilia king of the New York Times wrote last month about how chairman Simon's has actually asked for more power when it comes to regulating tech and privacy and wants to be able to regulate data collection at all companies, not just tech companies. And this is the guy who's first act when he took office basically was to convene hearings on whether the government needs to update its rules about antitrust enforcement and reviewing. Mergers for the digital age Simon's also asked for more money to help protect consumer privacy late last month Democrats on the house energy committee sent a letter asking chairman Simon's exactly how the agency might use that money, but considering how much the FTC has been criticized for hitting tech companies with either no fines or very tiny fines for bad behavior in the past. It seems like these latest activities do make it seem like maybe chairman Simon's isn't waiting around for his chief technologist tell them what to do. I'm Ali would. And that's marketplace tech. This is APN. This marketplace podcast is brought to you by Oregon state, university e campus wanna take the fast track to your career in computing, earn your computer science degree one hundred percent online from Oregon state and tap into unlimited career possibilities in any field. Learn more at e campus dot Oregon, state dot EDU slash tech.
Burger King Angers Gaming Community With Twitch Ad Campaign
"Why is everyone in the game community pissed at Burger, King today all explain a Mitchum's and this is the East sports minute presented by sports network. If you haven't seen this controversy, here's a quick catch up major advertising agency. Ogilvy released a video today of a campaign they did focused on twitch with Burger King their client automated donations went to streamers along with Burger King branding. So. Here's how it would work about donate about five bucks or streamer and the streamers automated text voice feature would read out a burger king add about how many chicken nuggets five bucks with by. People were not happy not only is this type of ad against which is terms of service. It might also be an FTC violation as ads have to disclose to the audience. Now, I can't really dive into the intricacies of laws and I'll leave that to the actual lawyers. But what I will say is that eastwards attorney Bryce blown tweeted he thinks this may be questionable legal realm. So there is merit to those claims. Now putting a potential FTC violation aside, people are really mad because of how this undercut streamers mini streamers struggled to get brands onboard official sponsors especially, the streamers that Burger King targeted here. These are not Ninjas and Dr Loopholes. These are some smaller channels. Now. Here's a major brand abusing a future on their streams for super cheap ad and sort of undercutting them out of their own process on their own channel, and that cheapness is really the other issue. Five Bucks is nothing that when you think about an ad campaign that a company like Burger King gives an agency like Ogilvy, we're talking six figures at least many probably in the seven figures. They're giving out five to individual streamers. That's what a random viewer in the stream is paying for prime. It just doesn't match up how much money they have. Even a Burger King gave out five to two, hundred, thousand streamers. That's still nothing in the grand scheme of one of these campaigns. We've seen other companies skirt. FTC ranks with regards twitches well, cash up hands out thousands of dollars of gifted subs and will often sit on top of Austrian list of biggest donations. Now again, putting the FTC aside, the biggest difference here is simply the cash cash APP has not seen any of the public outcry, and if Burger King was dropping a grand to a bunch of different streamers now they'd be pretty welcomed and sought after is the underhanded nature of the campaign deployed across twitch combined with a lack of actual support that has people outraged I certainly don't blame them. It's an important lesson for brands. We talk a lot about how much opportunity there is. In Gaming and sports and streaming sites seem like a great place to expand for marketing purposes but a poorly received activation won't be forgotten quickly and Burger as going to be dealing with its fallout for a while. That's eight episode of the East Sports. Minute if you're looking more eastwards content and especially if you're a call of Duty Fan, I've recently recorded two sides of the first round chance matchup between the Minnesota rocker and the New York subway riders for the sliders talk with phenomenal rookie Mac on the sports network podcast and for the Rocker I talked with Brett diamond the COO wise venture east sports the backers of the rocker about the organization's biggest match date. I hold off from recording until the mattress over and it was the sub she took the first round dubs the rocker will head down to the loser's bracket and maximum liars will move to the second round matchup against the Chicago Huntsman as always I'll be back tomorrow with booze eastward story today in just a few minutes.
The end of Big Techs glory days
"This has been a pretty bad week on the whole first. Silicon valley source tells us that the white house plans the tab. Lena as chairwoman of the federal trade commission someone who is noted as a vocal critic of big tech companies members of the house antitrust subcommittee are holding a news conference talk about a series of new bills aimed at limiting the power of a big tech companies. The only way to stop this power is through antitrust reform. These bills addressed that power and we will break up big tech. Does this at all feel like the beginning of the end of big tax glory days. Wow that's very like deepened. Scary saturday. But i mean yeah i would say that maybe the beginning of the unrest cambridge analytica developing. Right now. there is a very good chance. Your facebook account or one of your friends account was hacked in fact more than fifty million people all around. The world are learning their accounts of also been compromised. But this is definitely like a everyone realizes now that it's it's definitely different. Yeah okay so the glory days of pass them by and now tech giants are just sitting in a bar together listening to springsteen reminiscing about the good old days. I'm jeremy siegel this is. Politico dispatch and today. I'm leon island politicos antitrust reporter leeann island on the new. Ftc chair new antitrust legislation and the potential end of big tax glory. Well now turn to more formal introduction of the next nominee lien. Khan and i will turn to senator club char to make her remarks. Well thank you very very much. and today. i have the honor of introducing professor. Lena con as president biden's nominee to be a commissioner of the federal trade commission. So lena con is a sort of antitrust underpinned. Lena con is in short and out of the box. Thinker a pioneer and competition policy who has already a noted expert in her field. She started out as a journalist covering Monopolies anti-monopoly is. She wrote a bunch of articles for various magazines. Mostly places like the american prospect washington monthly focused on some of the problems that have come up because of increased concentration not just in the tech sector but also in places like agriculture and really encouraged her to go to law school. Because she thought you know this is not what we want so she went to yale and while she was there. She wrote this breakthrough. Paper called amazon's antitrust paradox on that really explored how amazon's business practices might be violating the antitrust law. And today that might seem pretty obvious to people but this was a couple of years ago and it was like a lightning strike. So i like to introduce this incredible panel Lena con is a second year law student at yale and she's written a lot about these issues about consolidation about amazon and is just one of the great semi journalist researcher intellectuals working on this topic right now. People were really unsure about her ideas. They were very controversial. You know she was really dismissed as like this kid who didn't know anything and was trying to like impose. Her view on antitrust like talking about breaking up big tech before talking about breaking big tech was cool. yeah And like the antitrust like establishment was very very Anti her ideas from there she ended up going to row hit. Chopra's he is another commissioner at the ftc Former Cfp be person has actually now been nominated to be the head of the cfpb and while she was there they actually wrote a gun papers like academic papers about how. The ftc has not really used a lot of the authority that has And really rethinking. How the ftc could Do its job then. She got hired by the house. Judiciary committee for it's really big in-depth investigation into the tech giant's also headed to capitol hill in a matter of hours. The titans of tech for the first time. Amazon's jeff bezos will testify along with the leaders of apple facebook and google beginning at nine. Am and then. After she left the house she got hired by columbia law school to be professor and then in march she got nominated to be a commissioner at the ftc. And you know a lot of people thought you know that's okay because row hit. Chopra is going to be going to the cfp be. He's sort of considered like the really liberal one who You know offend descents and talks about what. He thinks that the ftc should be doing more than it is now but you know for the past several years. The republicans were in control so he couldn't do more than sort of just rail against them from the sidelines and she was sort of seen as like that position. You know the person who is going to be pushing the ftc to do more but Wouldn't really have that much power to change anything and then The senate voted for her. They confirmed her last week. And within two hours. The white house Let leak that. They were actually going to appoint her chair And that was a hugely sneaky move because normally the white house when they have picked to the chair and they're it's somebody their nominating. They just announced straight up. Hey this person's going to be the chair. But by doing this they had all of these people vote for her and then announced that she was going to be chaired like there. Were probably some people who voted for her. Who might not have if she was the chair. Because the chair has so much more power than just a regular commissioner so you have con- as sort of sneak attack choice to be the head of the federal trade commission the agency that enforces antitrust law. People initially expected she sort of sit on the sidelines. Vocal critic of big tax but not really calling the shots and now she will be calling the shots right. Y- tell me what exactly the chair of the ftc. Does there the person who gets to decide the real direction of the agency. What cases are going to pursue. What kinds of rulemakings they might put in place One of my favorite any trust commentator is bill kavazovic. Who's a former chairman of the. Ftse's said the difference between being a commissioner on the chair is sort of like the difference between going to the moon and going to mars one of them is so much of a bigger challenge and like has so much more power than the other so one of the nation's most vocal critics as having the ftc and then at the same time also just last week a group house. Lawmakers unveiled this package of bills that also aims to crack down on big tech. What exactly is in this legislation. Yeah so there's this big package. it's five bills. One of them is very uncontroversial. It's already actually. Pass the senate and that one would just Change the amount of money that companies have to pay when they are proposing a merger to help fund the ftc and doj. Better that one. As i said it was very uncontroversial. It has bipartisan. Support has actually already passed the senate but the other four are really a breakthrough legislation. That would very much take on the tech giant's so for them to apply. I a company has to have a really large market cap. It only applies to companies. That have six hundred billion dollars in annual sales or a market cap. Which is only like nine companies in the world to begin with and then from there they have to have a platform that has fifty million. Us users or one hundred thousand us businesses that use it every month and so from there that really gets down to five possible companies ones. Where generally talking about apple amazon. Facebook google and possibly microsoft So once these bills are found to apply to them all of a sudden there are various behaviors that they're not allowed to engage in for example. They're not allowed to buy companies that are potential competitors. There's also like they no longer can discriminate against rivals or sort of preference their own products. So they would no longer be able to. For example for google put their own products right at the top of search results. Just because they're google products they would have to allow it to happen. Organically so if google has the best google map or reviews you know they could still go at the top but they have to allow other people to compete fairly. They would also have to create new tools that would make it really easy for consumers and businesses to move to other platforms. This is called like interoperability. In which is a fancy word for just making it. Easy to switch and the biggest one the one. That's the most controversial is our break-up bell which says that if these other tools that are aimed at increasing competition don't work the justice department or the ftc could sue to sort of break up any of these companies if they have an inherent conflict of interest. That can't be resolved so that could require for example. Maybe google to sell off youtube or amazon. Stop selling its basics. Line of stuff. You know all of the batteries and cheap shirts and stuff like that. That amazon sells on on its website. Yeah wow so. This could really change a lot if google drop in youtube or amazon. Can't do that. And you said these are bills from both democrats and republicans. I could these actually stand a chance of being passed these bills. Are they have some support from Democrats and republicans in the house but there are certainly a number of republicans who don't like it Kevin mccarthy the minority leader has said he is opposed to these bills. So has jim jordan. Who is the head of the house. Judiciary asharwi for republicans so there is a markup this wednesday on the bills in. We're expecting a lot of fireworks. I guess regardless of what ultimately happens with this legislation. I don't know to me watching from the outside the fact that we do have these bills that could split up parts of these huge tech companies. The fact that we have such a staunch tech critic heading up the ftc. Now this feels like a huge moment it is. It's david sicily was compared. He said this is our monopoly moment and we are now responding. So you know this is. This is really like the world series of antitrust or something going on right now. Well i wish you the best of luck in covering it on really leeann island. Thank you so much for talking with me about it thank you. Also today senator bernie. Sanders says he will not support a bipartisan infrastructure. Bill if it includes measures like raising the gas tax or a fee on electric vehicles twenty one senators including eleven. Republicans of detailed bipartisan proposal. The costs about nine hundred. Seventy three billion dollars over five years or one point two trillion over eat. The plan would have five hundred. Seventy nine billion dollars in new spending would repurpose unspent. Covert relief funds impose a surcharge on electric vehicles and expand the use of state and local funds for coronavirus. Relief speaking to nbc. Over the weekend sanders called the proposal. Quote mostly good but fired back at measures included like the fee on electric vehicles demonstrating how democrats are at risk of losing progressive support in the split senate as they court. Republicans to produce a bipartisan measure. And nearly two thirds of likely voters in iowa. Say it's time for someone other than chuck grassley to serve in the us senate casting doubt on the prospects of the longest serving senator in the state's history in a poll published by the moines register over the weekend. Sixty four percent of those surveyed said. It's time for someone else to occupy that seat. Compared to twenty seven percent. Who said they'd vote to elect grassley who turns eighty eight in september to an eighth term in twenty twenty two with a fifty fifty senate likely to be at least somewhat reshaped by the twenty twenty two elections i was raised is one of the most closely watched and the nation. Today's episode included music composed by brake master cylinder. Be sure to subscribe to politico dispatch. If you haven't yet and also check out. Some of our other shows like political energy and the playbook daily briefing. I'm jeremy siegel. Thanks for listening.
Podcast: KYC, Know Your Customer, now more than ever as FTC gets aggressive in enforcement against fraud and other illegal activity
"This is the green and I'm the publisher Telecom reseller. And today we're going to be doing a very special podcast on on an issue and topic that's going to be impacting everyone of the readers, listeners, this podcast and of our publication. And I have with me Steve Smith. Is the founder and CEO. Steve Thank you for joining me today. I it's it's a delight to be back here with you and thanks for inviting me. I'm glad you're able to make it an and talk to us about this vital issue and Rebecca Johnson who's the founder and CEO numerical. Becca thank you for joining me. So, we are reacting today to a landmark FTC order that is triggering needed change and we're GonNa be diving into that topic in just a minute. But I steve what is is Fun It is communication platform as a service provider. So we help our customers interact with consumers, the voice and text, and highly regulated industries. So. What is America? You. Medical is a verified identity platform provider where we are giving power and control over to enterprises to be able to identify who they are and have that identity trusted communication channels. Especially, the hot topic right now with a voice communication. So. Power control is found this very related to the landmark FTC or that I just mentioned maybe you can help our readers connect the dots. What did the FTC say? Yesterday, this is really an interesting one for wash should be paying attention to what the FCC is doing, and they are making a statement. This particular landmark order, which is just a matter of a couple of weeks. Ago is where the FCC and the State of Ohio initiated a lawsuit against pro link vision now they've. Since lawsuit against the Individual Officers and the company by painting and an asset freeze Anna temporary restraining order for alleged violations of the telemarketing sales rule, which we're all very familiar with. litigation office subsequently expanded to include several voip carriers who were alleged to have knowingly assisted him. I carrying their back call. So. This this particular order is is letting US know that it's not just the originators of the bag call that the going after they are looking at the providers of the platforms and the tools to be able to deliver those calls. says some specific details within this order really sets the stage for what we've been hearing with regards from the trace stacked on the hill what the FCC has been focusing on with their rulings to create a caller authentication framework. But the jumping ahead and saying, we're not waiting for those tools. We have an expectation of what your responsibilities are. If you're going to originate calls and very simply put, they want you to know your customer. You need to know what type of customer you are doing business with they've set. Some outlines bulletin with regards to what they expect you to look at if you're going to bring. On a customer deliver call they also outline the type of customer. You should not work with I thought that was quite interesting I, go supportive you who you are not allowed to do business with who we needed to hear tension what the FCC is saying here because what the elements all come around is customer due diligence. Now, this is not a foreign concept. This is than used for banks for a long time it's off any anti money laundering, but the FCC involved in that too. So here we are. We are at the brink this first step where know your customer is coming a concept that will be conflate. A little bit deeper into that steep. What's your take on Kyc? Well I think what's going on here. It's always been a good idea to know your customer right I. think that's just a sound business principle You know especially if you're dealing with regulated entries. Industries but I think it's changed from being like a good idea to an imperative right. There are now teeth if you are a communication service provider or telecom carrier or Vpo, and you don't pay attention to who your customer are. You don't sort of you know have a have a sense of what the corporate entity is, what types of traffic they're doing What they're in the business of doing and you just say, Hey, you know I want to accept their, you know their their revenue and their traffic and pass it along. You can be held liable if what they are doing is placing fraudulent or spoofed calls. So this is sort of the whole way of you know supply-side enforcement of you know forcing the whole. Industry to change their ways and not pass a blind I say, yeah. You know I want these thirty million minutes of traffic a month on my platform because I make dollars on it. You know if if a bad actor is placing that on your platform, you can be in big trouble. You Know Your Business could be shut down. So so I think it's you know the we've been a lot of discussion you know, and probably a lot of podcasts about stir shaking and a lot of focus is on the technology, and that technology provides a cryptographic mechanism that you can identify how a call was originated. This is the other side of that coin, which is so if you're caught originating bad calls and letting them. transit, your your network. That's what the TRAE staff comes in, and then if you are not doing the due diligence to know your customer and you're just letting it go, you can be held liable. So these three things together sort of build this framework that is GonNa really let the government go after. The people that are permitting this to happen. So Steve. It almost seems like what I would call. The Shrug has gone in other words don't be linked Houston just shrug and say, Hey, I don't know where that came from Yep. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's You know this stuff is an and rebecca can maybe give some some more of the background because she really has a tremendous amount of expertise in the in this area and has a background in some of these government agencies prior to founding you miracle. But this has been a long time coming right stir shake and didn't appear wackier. It might have appeared as you know, a headline news item last year, but the scourge of illegal calls has been. you know something that has been worked on by a number of federal agencies for a long time and it's something that you know enjoys bipartisan support. Right? There's no one sitting there saying, yeah you know we we think illegal calls are good and we think that you know you know bad actors should be able to spoof people in defraud them so. I don't know make Rebecca maybe hand that off to you a little bit there or you can can segue to something I was thinking Rebecca that it's also and based on what you were saying Steve Just said to and the way that. Announcement was made from the FTC. It seems like the benefit of doubt is now gone in other words you cannot be thinking well, they have to sort of prove it at sounds more like you've gotTa make sure that you're documenting that you're actively knowing what's going on. You're absolutely right. That's the message that I believe they were intending to get across and when I look at it I can see how thorough that it is what a thought went into what is the structure because I do believe there is an expectation that your listeners are watching this and then implementing their own procedures. You absolutely are not going to be able to say I did not know. That is a part of what America's is doing is we're trying to get ahead of this m provide a way for service providers to implement a know your customer process. so that they can be protected and at least a due diligence process, you are delivering traffic The hope here is that you can show worth. Well, we've put in the framework we put in the structure somehow somebody got through and this isn't anything foreign as as Steve mentioned I used to deal with data breaches and the ones that get their left. Really. Hard are the ones that didn't have the privacy insecurity policies. Procedures implements implemented within their organization, and if you do not have that structure in that framework they can come in and they can come in very aggressive on this particular one. The FTC was extremely abreast of with with these organizations involved and it was just that's the precedence for going forward. I I have a feeling you know. Since we're in such a competitive industry since the service providers live in such a competitive environment, some of this may have come up with the pressure. You Know Day to day that a company may have to just basically as customers and not WanNa look at where they're coming from and I think you guys are saying you'd better look where you're still staffer bringing in people. That in any industry dog, any industry where you look at where anonymity can exist we have fraud and it's just been I. Think a natural progression to move away from thinking where you could turn a blind eye anybody can get access to your bank account and move money around you know issues. Now there's oversight and the program in place I think the voice channel is just the natural next place where we have to put this structure in place in order to remove in an anti unfortunately usually what happens is once we locked down the bad guys are gonNA find another. It's a hot potato, but we are creating a more secure communication infrastructure not just for the US will be global to bring the benefit. Of the reasons that we partnered with that fun partnered with new miracle Back a couple years ago. Now was their vision and leadership in this space. Rebecca has has been one of the people promoting this and her company has gotten out ahead with They're verified identity Prada that you know we're happy to employ because you know we're a very regulatory focused see past provider anyway, and so we know about processes and procedures. So if a new customer comes to us, we have a very cost effective way to get the research done on who that customer is You know what type of actor they've been. What they're doing you know have they ever committed fraud before and having that documentation in in the file it may seem like it adds a little bit of extra. You know extra delay and SORTA, time to revenue or fails pipeline but then you you can sleep well at night. You you. You know that even even if somehow they slip through and they did play some bad stuff I mean there's other elements what you have to do as well. It we monitor traffic patterns on all of our customers we run daily weekly and monthly variance reports. Of Ours is dramatically changing their traffic pattern or changing the time of day their traffic pattern we have alerts going off as I think many of the responsible providers in the industry, and this is just the next step. It's it's you know not only paying attention to how they you know, how are they using your infrastructure but making sure you really know who they are i. mean some of the entities that let you swipe a credit card and get an API key and start launching calls are GonNa have to think long and hard about you know is, is that viable or is it going to lead to a lot of exposure for them? So Yeah I you know along these lines Rebecca I was wondering what now? So we have this ruling is Steve is laying out got a lot of implications and a lot of levels. If I'm out there as a service provider, what would I do now? Well. Already, service providers are looking at the mandate to have shake and implemented by twenty twenty one. I. Want to provide a word of caution that does not solve the problem that the FTC is highlighting and it's unfortunate but I'm starting to see some messages come out that it is. So you WanNa be really crystal clear that you must implement upgrade your net to be able to comply with stir steak, and then next level is the actual verification identification who your customer. Shaking is the avenue and a highway through which you will deliver that level of understanding of your customers are but it is not the one thing that you need to do and what I am fearful of for the industry is that everyone has their down implementing stir stake in, and then their identity is now being attached to the origination of. The calls and they have a lot of bad traffic. You'RE NOT GONNA be able to play catch up. Once the terminating side is aware of food originating this traffic we have the US trace back group they will identify you the FCC could come after you and it'll be too late. You won't be able to say I was going to start looking. At my customers, it needs to be done right now and it can be either two very separate processes and procedures that can be implemented. So word to the wise, you're aware you should probably start looking at what you're GonNa do to know your customers and actually a really nice thing. Right? Is that the the stir shaken implementations those are typically. The technology teams, it's the people working with the switches or the session border controllers or the PBS's to be able to You know manage the certificates and and put the station headers on calls whereas the New Year customer. That's the business process, right? That's that's something that can be done. You know by a Finance Department or you know an in house. Legal team or compliance team, and it's not the same skills. It's not the same staff. So you know you're not adding a double the work of people that are already overworked. And something we're doing that did not happen in a financial side and that's why I kinda focused on this area. was you know I used to invest a lot of many of the company without before into all of our compliance it's like Stephen does and that should mean something. So we establish this process that allows for a brand to come to it and obtain verified identity. Then think about it as like a driver's license, I can't get onto an airplane unless I have the driver's license. The Tsa Asian is not willing to perform the track that the would wanted to give me a license they accept that identity and trust. That all the work to ensure that I am who idea occurs. So we took the same model and brought it over here into this space in anticipation of this requirement on the service providers to have another customer and I, think it would be good to allow good guys to step up and say I'll let you myself be known and I'm GonNa go through this process and you can monitor me and you're gonNA find out who I am I'll lift and so we're we're trying to attack it from all different angles and instead of waiting for each service provider draft identify who every customer is letting customer step up and identified themselves. So Rebecca. Does that mean that at the other end of this tunnel that we've been going through with this? That actors and now the reaction government regulations stir shaking and so on. We can look forward to maybe using phone service in and out with much more clean environment. Absolutely I'm a believer in it. It is possible. No. I have read that the the FTC is. Is actually talking about closing operations closing. Operations companies basically are not in compliance and does that just mean that that the traffic that is coming from a bad actor would be closed down or the whole darn thing. A whole thing the whole thing it puts your operation accept that as being a channel through which fraudulent activities can occur. So that means if I'm an end user listening to this podcast and I, choose someone who's really not taking these steps, I could be off. Hook. I am so glad you brought that up. That's exactly how I I predict. The future will be like you're going to want to work with a compliant provider. Again, it's another reason why honest seventy miracle just think so much because that is the purge they take and I would like to see more companies. You know take that approach on the compliance side. So you need perform some due diligence on what processes and procedures do they have in place to ensure that your traffic does not get mixed in with bad traffic. Steve How do you communicate that to your customers? So I would say right now, right with the end customers The level of awareness of this is is not where it's likely to be when when more providers you know face these issues have the problem. We do a lot of talking you know on our website and in our strategic positioning about being provider of compliant communications and we talk about what that means. I think the Education you know a publication like yours is doing and highlighting this risk. I think the the entire set of buyers of telecommunication services and whether it's you know small hospitals. Or you know local exchange carriers buying gear and all that are going to have to become aware of this we we watched it in through another role I have some financial credentials and I have to attend annual am L. Anti money laundering things and and you know Rebecca's analogy is perfect and I don't know if it'll you. Know. If everyone here has that that that'll be listening has a similar experience but when this was put in place up and down the entire food chain in the financial services industry, there is a whole new, your customer thing there's mandatory aml annual trainings and all that. So I think this is just a sea change that's coming and you. Know people have heard a lot about stir shaking their now hearing about new customer and I think it will become increasingly important and I think you know you're doing a great service to your readers by getting on top of this issue and getting it out in front of them because I think a an informed buyer has to understand that you know they're. The with their choice of WHO's platform, they're gonNA use or a carrier services they're going to use. They're making a choice and they are dealing traffic with other people's traffic and I like Rebecca I'm a firm believer right at the at the end of the day here the the forces of good will prevail and the the the providers that are doing a good job will remain in business and those that have been happy to As. You said earlier do the Shrug are gonNA, find themselves in hot water and I think that's really what we need to have happened. I mean, let's face it. We we we all want the restoration of of trust in the voice channel at You know for for people of a certain age right when when your phone ring, it was generally someone that had a reason to talk to you that you wanted to talk to and. A very important thing. Yeah and you know there's another side of that right and I mean so much has been said about that and I, I think you know it's been fun 'cause there's something new that happened that we've really focused this call on but you know that that that cuts a lot of different ways right there. There are a lot of businesses that have legitimate business consent in reason that they need to call people that they need to get their calls delivered and they they want and hope that people answer those calls and then the other side is you know as. Another angle of it right as a consumer like it's annoying, it's a source of irritation to be inundated with this stuff, but there's a lot of. Small businesses, small hospitals We were talking about this before we got going on the podcast right where they're they've got a limited amount of staff and their contact center and these people you know not only are wasting time on You know bad calls in some cases they're being fished and defrauded and You know tripped into providing health, her data or other information that they should and So yeah, like like Rebecca I'm I'm convinced that these are the right steps that are that are needed to restore the voice channel. You know speaking of channel. We have a lot of channel readers also channel listeners, the resell services, including these types of services. What do they need to know about the company's they've got in their portfolio with regard to this issue? Well, that's something that American actually help with. We can't perform an assessment on each of your customers to address you know number one or are they actually who they say they are we actually look into regulatory legal enforcement orders against Some people are unaware that there's actually a restrictions on some companies from operating a dialer executive within an organization, maybe a restricted from delivering types of communications and unless you put the infrastructure in place to do that kind of research huge. Just not GonNa know so that that is something that we can help with right now they should be taking a look at 'em putting a process in place to kind of catch up on who their customers are and even maybe simple little assessment as Steve mentioned if they're not looking at their traffic and identify some of those challenge points at the FCC has identified as trouble, Traffic Fisher should probably do that and they can get a really quick offense moment of. Traffic that I allow my network is suspect and then don't on those particular customers who are behaving suspect and put them through A. Process. And you'll have to make this. You know from that point. Rebecca doesn't just said Burqa kind of an interesting thought that you may know the answer for if you're a reseller of telecommunication services or a platform so you're you're not the carrier itself but you're you know you're you're you're a channel of it. Does does this FTC order flow up and you know, let's say you're just simply reselling some some carriers telecommunication service and you re sold it to someone that turns out to be a bad actor who's who openly bears a liability for that the carrier or the reseller. Then that have been from the SEC is all involved. So the carrier WHO's providing a service reseller needs to make sure that their reseller a KYC. Process in place and they may even went to be scripted of it. We're already seeing that type of activity there. I don't think anyone's off the hook. This is this is their way of of locking down the network. This is this is not a surgical strike. This is a blonde object headed your way. Absolutely and we're trying to help everyone get out ahead of it. So I think that's really important because again, I, keep on thinking of this shrug thing. There's a lot of that in business where you know owners and so sort of try to skirt responsibility by saying I don't know so and so I was out there and she brought in this business I know nothing about it. That sounds like you can't do that now. That's not gonNA fly. Absolutely will not fly. And it sounds like in a to knowing your customer, you probably need to know your partners in other words Steve's point the knowing who who you're bringing in the door as a partner that you're selling. Or re-selling. Absolutely as much as I personally enjoy working with Steve Steve, we your process. Everyone will investigations criminal background checks the whole nine yards. Never, that an sense, then no fence to. Steve and I'm sure came out. Great but you know even the very best companies may not me actually not no. I. Mean Sort of pointed this exercise right they actually have hidden within their. World customers about after that they are not even aware of. Yeah and and you have to look at their shell companies. There are DDA's there's all different types of business structures, which Stephen is old often the financial side and you have to know you have to be an expert and looking at that and I see some companies popping up with you know they're. You know your customer have absolutely no experience in it and I'm scared for those who partner with companies such as that, you need to make sure that you know what you're doing with reverse the verification and validation of the intensities on you can do it on your own writers could absolutely do all of this on their own thanks to it. But the point that he brought that's a completely different skill set. We do not have individuals like this over the telecom space. So we might be creating an entire new work environment career path for those that had been over in the banking side. So you might WanNa start thinking about how you stop that up to protect yourself. You know concurrent with the with all the activity that's been going on in this matter is is kind of interesting re representatives happening in a number of industries ironically where the phone and other devices like meeting holding today are going to become more important than ever telehealth is now something like eighty percent of all the delivered health in the United States, and that sometimes includes because there are many many patients who actually don't have Internet service. Sometimes, that just simply includes calling up a patient on the phone. Is that true I didn't realize I mean when as soon as you're saying that that makes sense in the Times that we're in. But I have not heard that statistic that. You think it's a radical shift We have a Tele Health magazine and it was always a something of a fringe activity. It was you know some organizations were using it some big organizations like Kaiser here on the West Coast restoring us. But it was it was it wasn't really the preferred practice and then you know in an instant basically all the patient services. I shouldn't say all but just about any type of outpatient service, which really doesn't need to have firsthand contact between patient and and position starting to go online, basically virtual, and so the the irony of this or or maybe the I guess I'll use the. The currency is were suddenly having huge industries like healthcare. Finance And other things maybe everyone here has had the experience of even having a phone call from a bank, for example, someone using just their cell phone. because thanks for having to basically move their their workforce, try to you know to to their homes. So what's what's weird about our moment in time is were suddenly relying on these systems for secure communications more than ever. And yet, we haven't completely gotten this batten down yet. Yeah. Actually that's how I got. My starting communications was on the healthcare side and I was a part of the I guess the initial groups on how do we provide provide care coordination through the use of various different technologies and the voice was absolutely one of the tools that we use from the VR in order to. blood pressure temperature, other readings of the patient can provide in, and then this something we take it in and make a decision. Do I need to elevate this patience speak to a care coordinator or can I just mark? Okay. You know results based on the medications they're taking seem to be in line we need to you know nothing to be done there and allowed care ordinary to be able care for over fifteen hundred patients. I. Try to do that without any automation it's worth. So, it became essential to be able to provide care when the whole objective here is to make sure that paces are hearing to what the doctors had prescribed. So you know we don't do our parts of protective legal communications through these particular channel I've always said I've been quoted on this before we have the opportunity to provide far worse harm to consumers in a robocaller ever did. Well on a brighter note, I sort of brought up the emerging trends because if we can succeed at doing this, then there's a world of opportunity for a lot of the people listening. Absolutely absolutely. Race. His exist together organize and trusting communication is is what you're GONNA be providing. But what I'm hearing from both of you guys is the the era of the wild west maybe a little bit over another was you've got to be really really good. You've gotta be really clean and you've got to be very careful. It's always look I. Think would be a a wonderful way to run a business, right? It's it's just I i. think it's the right thing to do anyway but it's really nice to see the work that the government doing to Yeah. To put it. You know I, think he put it well. Well Steve and Rebecca I WANNA. Thank you for joining me today and forgiving us a very good overview of very good understanding. Of Not only this important landmark FTC announcement. It's impact, but also basically a an outline of the plan of attack. Really the various communities that are probably listening to this podcast. So Steve, what can we learn more about funded us? you can find us at WWW SANTUS DOT com. So Rebecca we can we learn more about numerical and also are there resources for readers to learn more about this matter? Absolutely You can visit the website at www dot in U. N. E. R. A. C. L. E. dot com numerical dot com, and on our website we have a blog section where you can subscribe or are numerical insight and what's great about that is with all the information that's going on around this topic we really zero in about four to five very important topics so that you can stay up to date on on the trends in this space. Rebecca and Steve Thank you very much indeed for joining me today. This is a really hot topic. I know we're GONNA get together soon and see where we are about this, and maybe a matter of weeks or a month or two, but for now thank you very much. Yeah great job. With a Lotta fun talking with breath Rebecca knew about this. I think. Time typecast team I think we need to do this again. Thank you breaking story does? Invite us back in six or eight weeks and we can. We can give you an update. You got it and we'll look forward to it.
Well, AI got quite the talking to this week
"This marketplace podcast is supported by jump cloud with jump cloud remote onboarding an off boarding goes from hours to under five minutes. Experience jump cloud group based access control and zero touch mac. Os enrollment at cloud dot jump cloud dot com slash tech. This marketplace podcast is supported by rosetta. Stone is your organization's ellen. De becoming another sunk cost. It won't be with rosetta stone. Fuel international growth through a centralized investment that trains. Your workforce in twenty four languages while significantly cutting your vendor costs. Learn more about reimagining. Your ellen de at rosetta stone dot com slash marketplace. Well hey. I got quite the talking to this week from american public media. This is marketplace tech. I'm molly would. The federal trade commission issued a strongly worded post monday warning companies against unfair or deceptive practices in their use of ai as well as violations of fair credit rules it told companies to hold themselves accountable for their algorithms or quote. Be ready for the ftc to do it for you. Dang and also this week the european union drafted detailed legislation that would regulate a including banning some surveillance and social credit scores. Let's check it out and quality assurance the segment where we take a deeper look at big tech story. Kahlo is a law professor at the university of washington. He says the ftc post was a surprise and as reading through it. My eyes were getting bigger and bigger and bigger. And i'm just sort of marveling at the language that the that the staff attorney his use but basically it's a shot across the bow for those people who are using and selling systems warning them that if they exaggerate claims about a i or if they sell ai that has a racially discriminatory on a fact that they should expect scrutiny from the federal trade commission. I guess my response. When i first saw that note though was we don't really have metrics for this. You know there's no consensus on how to judge whether ai is biased. The ftc is understaffed. Like how meaningful is the threat. Really remember that. The federal trade commission doesn't necessarily need to establish this or that algorithm is fair according to some metric. What they have to establish is that the company engaged in unfair or deceptive practice. Take for example. The the warning that you shouldn't make claims about what artificial intelligence can do that or not supported by the evidence right that's quite analogous to another context where you might exaggerate exaggerate the efficacy of some vitamin supplement. However your point about bandwith is very well taken. I've long thought. And encourage policymakers to think about every chance i get. How understaffed the. Ftc is relative to its mission its charge. Meanwhile as this is happening the european union has proposed over one hundred pages of potential. Ai regulations do you have a sense of what would change. If some of that became la. The proposal in the in europe is in fact a comprehensive set of rules that if they were ultimately passed alternately promulgated would create some significant obligations and limitations on the use of ai in europe so for example. There will be certain things that you simply wouldn't be able to do and there would be other things. Where if you did them. You'd have to have a plan. To to mitigate risk. I think also will have an effect here and even our own lawmakers in on the hill in dc would look to europe. I mean taking all of these things together and other kind of bans on facial recognition like. Is there a sense that we may be learning the lessons of the past and potentially getting at least a little bit ahead or maybe neck and neck with a in terms of regulation while it is also becoming a bigger part of society. I think there's an opportunity here Because i think that a lot of the long standing societal ills things that are certainly not new to the last decade. have really come to the fore. come to Come into visibility because of of our fascination and concern about artificial intelligence and so what i'm hopeful about is that a is a technology will get the kind of scrutiny. That will help to you. Know not not totally but helped to dismantle some of these societal ills that are long standing That's sometimes a role that technology has it brings to the fore longstanding problems longstanding failures to live up to our values. And that's what. I'm hoping that it is going to be happening here. I think the danger is to just stop it so to say. Hey we're going to ban facial recognition there. We've we've addressed the problem right now. I think everybody who works in the spaces realizing that bias and inequity is baked into many different aspects of technology and that is very visible and draws draws our attention but that to really address the kinds of problems we have in this country and others We we need. We need to think more systemically. Do you have any examples of what the eu law might do. The way that that the legislation is structured is to place different use cases freight for a into different categories of risk and so the the most high sort of the most concerning sort of things are actually prohibited so one of the prohibited. Artificial intelligence practices is to is to use an ai system. That does something that you and. I have talked about on this show before which is to manipulate human behavior to their detriment. So if you create an ai system that exploits vulnerable pill people. That's actually prohibited. You can't do it. There's also a prohibition on using a kind of sort of general purpose scoring system the way that the way that china apparently has like a scoring assessment tool a social credit scoring two that's prohibited. And so that's a that's a direct response. I think in many ways to china is approaching. Ai right indiscriminate surveillance of the table so there's things that are that are not allowed and what's so interesting about it. Is that the things that are not allowed our digital harms. They're kind of ephemeral. they're they're they're not bones to say you know That is to say these are. These are fundamental human rights who are being affected through code through bits through data. Who then you get down to to high risk systems which are systems where you can still do it But you have a certain obligations and those things are all of a sudden things that affect physical safety and in critical infrastructure. In other words we're bones are on the line you know. These are high risk systems. That where the consequence could be that someone gets hurt. Physically or infrastructure gets hurt physically so united in the united states. It's often very difficult to escape liability when you hurt people physically and too easy to escape accountability when you hurt them in an digital context whereas here are the eu is saying there are some there are some no go territory that are really these dignitary digital harms. And that's very very interesting to me. And then you know there are also some some very specific requirements around documenting your system being transparent having a certain amount of human oversight having enough robustness accuracy. You have to document that you have certain quality management systems and so there are a lot of regulatory obligations. That would come with this bill and it really is a sea-change from the first part of our conversation where basically the ftc. One of our big consumer watchdog's is saying we're paying attention to the space and we're gonna use our amorphous pre existing authority to go after unfair deceptive practice to look at the industry versus. Here's a comprehensive scheme that is broken down by the kind of we're talking about and has affirmative specific obligations right. These are very far apart In terms of ways to manage to govern ai and yet they have in common that they're both taking seriously and taking the harm seriously and thinking of it as being an important transformative technology that requires change to law in eagle institutions rien que. Lo is a law professor at the university of washington and now for some related links. I encourage you to read the ftc's post because as you probably know. Government agencies aren't always the most plain spoken and the ftc in this case is telling companies flat out. Don't exaggerate while you're algorithms can do be on alert for discriminatory outcomes be transparent and empower independent researchers to audit your code. Tell the truth about how you use data. It's a lot of common sense in some ways and it's also interesting to read in light of the more than one hundred pages. We mentioned coming out of the eu because in some ways. That is the alternative. Right there's a link to the post and some analysis over at marketplace tech dot org as well some writing about that you use risk-based approach and what its global impacts might be now one thing i should note about. The ftc versus the eu the us proposed regulations include fines fig ones up to six percent of global sales for violators while here in the us. Supreme court this week gutted. The ftc's ability to recoup money for consumers in court when it finds that a company is violated regulations for example it's 2016 sixteen settlement with volkswagen over the diesel emissions scandal. Where it won. Nearly ten billion dollars to return to people in agencies hurt by the actions the agency can presumably still order other consequences to companies but is asking congress to restore this tool. It's ability to recoup a lot of money for consumers also while you're clicking. There's a link to a good bloomberg story looking at the history of google's ethical. Ai group and how it had some internal ethical challenges of its own even before the well publicized exit of black researcher. Tim nick gebru and later. Firing of her co lead margaret mitchell among other things there were complaints of racism and sexual harassment and apparently an ongoing argument over whether the researchers in the ethical. Ai group including gebru would be allowed to look into data around waymo the self driving car unit. They wanted to know whether it's pedestrian detection. Sensors took into account skin color or whether someone was using a wheelchair or a cane for example you know the kind of transparency and independent auditing the ftc. Suggesting you might say anyway. It's a long read but you have all weekend right. Hey susa varados stephanie. Hughes and michael lipkin produce the show. Our engineers are rubbing edgar becca wineman. I'm molly and that's marketplace tech. This is a pm. Hail amri mcrae's host of the marketplace. Podcast this is uncomfortable studies. Show that people who are considered attractive are more likely to earn more money and that includes how you present yourself from wearing makeup and nice close to whether or not you have visible body hair. There anytime spend money i was like. Am i really doing this for myself. Do i want to remove my body. Harry and i knew in my heart. I didn't want to a didn't want to. I just knew that. I had to this week. On the show. A phenomenon known as the grooming gap. New episode of this is uncomfortable. Drops thursday moreover. You get your podcasts.
A Discussion of Recent Developments Involving Credit Reporting With Special Guest Eric Ellman, Senior Vice President for Public Policy and Legal Affairs, Consumer Data Industry Association
"Welcome to the consumer Finance Monitor podcast where we explore important new developments in the world of consumer financial services and what they mean for Your Business, your customers and the industry. I'm your host Chris Willis and on the deputy practice leader of Ballard's bars, consumer financial services group, and I'll be moderating states program for those of you who aren't even more information. Don't forget about our blog consumer finance monitor DOT com. We've posted a blog since two thousand eleven. So there's a lot of relevant industry content there. We also regularly hosts webinars on subjects of interest to those of us in the industry. So to subscribe to our blog or to get on the list for our webinars, please visit us at Ballard SPAHR. DOT, com, and if you like our podcast, let us know leave us a review on apple podcast, Google play or wherever you get your podcast. Now, today's episode is all about credit reporting and I'm joined by tooth. Very great guests I. I've got my partner Kim Fan, who is one of our consumer financial services in privacy and credit reporting lawyers are Washington DC office, and we have a special guest today Eric Element who's the senior vice president for public policy and legal affairs at the Consumer Data Industry Association, which if you haven't. Heard of it is the Industry Association responsible for the Credit Reporting Resource Guide that is the metro two format, and so eric is going to have a lot of great insights to share with us today. So I'm not going to get in the way of this conversation anymore. So Kim Eric why don't you guys take it away? Thanks Chris and Eric Welcome and we're so glad to have you here today. First of all I, just WanNa make sure that I congratulate you on CD as first virtual conference what a great success during. These challenging Cova, Times Yeah Kim thank you so much for having me deeply appreciated, and of course, Kim for the benefit of all of your listeners. Kim was one of our speakers on a panel that I've moderated, which I think was not only the best panel because Kim, you're on it, and because I moderated on it because I thought we had a lot of great information to offer. So thank you for the invitation I. Also Hope it will be our last virtual conference by the way a WHO knows what happens next year but We would all like to be backing person again I think it was certainly my pleasure to participate but I certainly wasn't the biggest name that you had lined up. You had some great speakers including Tom, Paul the deputy director of the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau in Andrew Smith Director of the Federal Trade Commission's Bureau Consumer Protection Let's talk first about Tom Paul. Minor stand is the Tom announced that the C. V. will be conducting a study on the accuracy of credit ports. Can you share any details about the CF approach to this research? Yes. Sure. I. Can share a little bit first of all the. Federal agencies and perhaps particularly the this year don't always make news but we are grateful that they made news at our law conference a couple of weeks ago when Tom Paul had announced that the CFPB was to undertake a new fresh accuracy studied the last couple of. Studies were done in two, thousand, Ten, twenty eleven. And they showed the perks study showed a ninety seven, ninety eight percent accuracy rate. An FTC study showed a ninety five percent accuracy rate. So the numbers are really high, but they're also a little bit dated and the PB decided that it's gone too long since a an empirical of an impeccable unimpeachable study of accuracy was done. So they are undertaking something that we hope will, and we expect to be empirical and scientific, and will show an even higher accuracy rate from the ninety seven. Ninety, eight percent rate that we showed a number of years ago we'll see dia as the Trade Association for their credit reporting industry will presumably have a lot of involvement in this process. Are there some key points that CDI WILL WANNA? Make sure I get stressed with the bureau during their research yet good question obviously, it's the study so it's going to be independent and they are going to do their own thing one of things i. hope the CFPB will consider is an outcome based Review, just like the perk work and the study was pretty similar in that as we know, not all accuracy inaccuracies are created equal. For example, if a consumer lives on Main Street Ma I n but it's listed on the credit report is m. a. n. e. main street that is an error. Sure. But that's not an area that's going to impact somebody's ability to get credit and the the beauty of the perk work that was done a number of years ago, and the beauty of the of the FTC study is. All that they were both outcome based and it looked into was this error. Resulting in a significant enough change to put somebody in a different slash lower credit here and and that's what we're hoping that the CFPB will will look at this time around. I'm assuming also that industry will have some opportunity to be involved in the study. Do you have any recommendations for our audience about how they as furnitures and end users of credit reports could get involved? Yeah. Good question. I'm not really sure I haven't advice other than if you have kind of a regular cadence with the PB that you might want to reach out to the CFO. I think one of the great benefits of the PB study compared to the FTC study is that because the PGA has a holistic at the consumer reporting ecosystem, which the FTC didn't when it did it study the can look at kind of the end to end process from how the data is. Is furnished from the furniture to the Sierra and how it's provided by the consumer reporting agency to the data user, and then the dispute resolution process along that. So the PGA has an opportunity, a unique opportunity to look at the whole life cycle of the consumer reporting system, and also get even closer or get closer than the FTC did to like these sources of inaccuracy and where those inaccuracies coming from in the hope that even the very high rate of inaccuracy of the very high rate of accuracy now can be even higher so. It's It's a long answer to your short question, but it ultimately boils down to if you have like, I said regular cadence with the PB connections to the PB. This may be a good time to reach out to them the they are really just starting this study. I think they recognize. that. This is an elephant and the only way to eat the elephant is to take it one bite at a time and they are probably on their first nibble or two, and I suspect that this will take several years to fully unpack to go from hey, we should do a study to hey, we have a study. There's a, it's a very long road in between and in fact, you didn't ask but what happens if there's a change in administration, maybe that was on your list. I don't know but I would like to think that this year pb to do something So that's going to be really thoughtful and very empirical and unimpeachable that it will survive any change in bureau director and he changed in presidential administration. Thanks Eric that's certainly big news drop from the CFPB at your conference anything else from Tom's remarks that you WanNa highlight today for our well. I think it's important to say that we in the consumer reporting community and the credit reporting community are really looking forward to an excited about this particular study. Again, as I said, before the accuracy studies that were done by the FTC perk twenty, ten, two, thousand eleven in that range showed ninety five percent for the FTC accuracy ninety, seven, ninety, eight, percent perk. And there's been so many advances in the credit reporting system since two, thousand, Ten, twenty eleven, twenty twelve that I have to imagine that when this is studied again, the accuracy rates will be even higher. So I guess the bottom line is that we're looking forward to it and we think this will ultimately be a net positive, not just for data furniture data users, but also for credit bureaus and. Most importantly for consumers who none of us could function without and we are only here because we have consumers as our customers and hopefully we work really hard or we work really hard to treat them well, and hopefully they overall see that. So I think ultimately, this is probably gonNA, benefit consumers, which is really the the the and the Omega of the whole credit reporting process says I've said before. Is Our north star and we believe that this year PBS. Show shifting now from the BBC to the FTC, which you mentioned multiple times has has done a lot of work in the. F.. Cra Space as well. Andrew Smith spoke the director of the FTC's Bureau of Consumer Protection and I know the Andrew spoke number of topics that would be of great interest. For example I. Know he spoke about the FTC's efforts to combat credit repair. Can you fill us in on some of that? Yes. Sure. Credit repair is at I guess on a good day it's an annoyance on a regular day It is a royal pain in the behind and ultimately what credit reporting. Sorry. What credit repair does is the tracks significantly from the credit bureaus ability to serve consumers who really need help, and also it impacts the data. Users are the data furniture's who are the data users who are really just trying to serve real consumers with real disputes. Unfortunately, credit repair outfits by enlarge exist for the purpose of pounding the credit bureaus attempting to crown the. Two pound the credit bureaus into submission by not responding in the Sierra statutory time window in the hope that accurate adverse information falls off the credit file. We hate them data, users hate them financial institutions the FTC is not too fond of them either and and the bottom line is one of the things that Andrew said is that they are trying to find ways to build bigger cases against credit repair organizations, and they Andrew Essentially issued an open ended invitation to credit bureaus into financial institutions that if they are aware of one or more credit repair outfits that are particularly problematic. Pose a a pattern and practice of abuse of credit reporting system. Then we should share that information with the Federal Trade Commission and the FTC is open to take into taking to taking action against these outfits. They Andrew Essentially said they're looking for cases to bring in this area and I hope that they do because our estimates are. That about a third to forty percent of all disputes by consumers into credit bureaus are as a result of credit repair activity. meaning that as we know a its credit repair company is charging consumer money to do something for a consumer that they can do themselves for free or often more likely is that they are encouraging consumers to dispute accurate adverse information and to do it repeatedly in the hope that it falls off the file. Sounds like a great opportunity for our listeners to engage with the FTC? Is there an approach that you would recommend for companies that want to call out some of these credit repair organizations or practices? Yeah. I again, I would suggest that to the extent that the financial institution listeners have again a canes with the FTC or certainly members of trade associations have regular contact with the FTC. Those would be of course, groups like asthma in the ABA and others If there's a way that you could figure out internally through your dispute teams dispute resolution teams. If you could help find those patterns and practices of of of credit repair and you could identify the sources, the FTC would be. Really interested in seeing that now, certainly, on the credit bureau side it's a little easier perhaps for us to spot some of these sort of cereal credit repair organizations because they tend to come in primarily by paper, and it's it tends to be the same spelling error that repeats itself in two thousand or two thousand different consumers. oftentimes, the postmarks are similar return addresses can sometimes be similar. So there are ways that we can identify to some degree that what's coming from credit repair based upon these patterns The trickier part though for the credit bureaus and the harder part I it is for financial institutions is to identify the organization that's driving behind the scenes these credit repair. These credit repair request. Thanks Eric. Turning now to another area, FTC focus I, know Andrew spoke about abuses of the FTC's identity theft complaint database. How does that DC plan to tackle that challenge? Yeah. That's an interesting question we have been working with the FTC for I. Don't know a year ash. Let me give you a little bit of A. let me. Let me back up a little bit starting in about October Twenty Sixteen I. Think it was or twenty seventeen. The Federal Trade Commission changed their identity theft practices such that if a consumer was alleging identity theft, they had been previously had to get an FTC affidavit which requires. Some hurdles to consumers to essentially verify that the information is true sign and swear under penalty of perjury drew. and. To get some law enforcement support as well. The FTC recognized that it was getting harder and harder for consumers to get police reports to allege. Identity theft. So they changed their FTC affidavit to what is really more of an FTC report which comes with a lower standard of barrier lower standard of proof for consumers. Now, the intent is noble. The intent is there are consumers out there who are legitimate victims of legitimate identity theft and we should make it as easy as possible for them to file an identity theft dispute hundred percent on board with that concept in execution though what happened is that the lower the barrier that the FTC made. It the easier. It is for consumers to dispute illegitimately meaning that there are plenty of consumers you have accurate adverse information on there filed just like credit repair that WANNA get that accurate information off of their file. So what are they do they go to the FTC dot Gov they download a report they decide which information they want to stop having reported on their file they completed they send it to a financial institution and the way the law is constructed is that the financial institution? Has I think four days to to remove that from the file and it makes it much easier to get data off of the file we call this to the attention to the FTC it took a little while. Months and months of working with the FTC. But we finally got some really encouraging news if I could just find some of the quotes that Andrew Smith had mentioned on in his presentation that he had noted, their own internal data at the FTC, and he showed a slide which suggests kind of like from October two, thousand sixteen, October two, thousand, seventeen, a hockey stick spike in the use of identity theft reports, which we which correlates quite elegantly with when the FTC flipped their their report, their FTC report system. And he noticed a significant pattern. This is a quote from him The FTC analysis of the data shows quote a significant pattern. That suggest fraudulent use of identity theft dot Gov, and he indicated that it again quoting not acceptable for the FTC subsidized identity thieves and it's a very high priority of the Bureau of Consumer Protection at the FTC to reverse this course. Not fully clear what they have in mind to to change to T to attempt this to to prevent the FTC report from being used as a tool for fraud Andrew Smith again mentioned and some technological changes that they are making like Ip analysis. So One IP ADDRESS PER FTC complaint. He mentioned that there may have been some other things that he said were in the works, but without saying what those are now the law is the law. So there are certain things that you can't get around but I think the FTC can make certain changes on the front end of trying to reduce. Or Mitigate against these ID theft reports from being used to perpetuate identity fraud So we're really encouraged by what he said. I love to I can't wait to see how this actually translates into real world changes I. suspect there will be changes for the better coming. But we'll just have to wait and see and keep working with our colleagues at the Federal Trade Commission and our colleagues elsewhere across government to make sure that there's some real change that that can be and and the point here is to separate the wheat from the chaff. So we are working really hard. To make sure. That credit repair is as low as possible because the higher the credit repair that means the more resources we all have to devote. To take away from dealing with real consumers with real problems, and there's a finite amount of resources as we know. And reducing identity theft I'm sorry reducing credit repair will help us focus on consumers where real victims of identity theft. I certainly agree it's very encouraging that the FTC is mindful of the fact that external factors could be impacting the accuracy of their internal data. So it's great to hear that they're they're being very mindful about that, and the steps that they can take to help mitigate some of those issues. Now you've mentioned you know the FTC's focus on looking for cases the to pursue credit repair I. UNDERSTAND IT Andrew also mentioned they're actively looking for cases under the FCC FC are. As Red flags program mandate have any thoughts for our listeners about how they should be enhancing their own programs to avoid. FTC. Scrutiny. Yeah. Good. Good question. I was hoping Kim that you would answer that question because you're the you're the red flags you're the red flags expert I. Only, I'm only here to report the news. You're here to advise I. Really don't have a lot of good good guidance here I, suspect that that you and Chris and the talented team at Ballard. Will be able to to provide a great council in that regard. But one of the things he did mention at when he spoke to us about red flags, he sort of took us on a grand tour of all of the things that that the. FBI. Was Working on relative to consumer reporting in one of those was the red flags. And he said a couple of things that are I think of interest one is he noted that a lot of SSN's are leaked his term from data breaches. No surprise there probably and he did criticize financial institutions to some degree when he said that he felt like there's not enough underwriting review on the back end for red flags. Violations. And he used to he used the term. He used the term that the red flags rule is kind of a back end of the data breach and the FTC is actively looking into red flag violations. But beyond that. Kim It's probably you know my thinking is that you would you and your folks would be in the best position to help advise your clients out to manage what the FTC is concerned with and where they're actively seeking for for violations. He the FCC is course is very active in bringing data-breach cases. When there with those a car interested, they would look at potential red flags violations associated with those same breach cases. So it'll be interesting development watch. Yeah. For sure I guess we'll just have to see in practice what what he's talking about. Let's shift away from the regulators for a little bit and take a look at some of the the broader credit reporting activity that's happening in the world especially in the wake of Covid with the Cares Act and the specific provisions that cares. Act that address credit reporting I'm sure that was discussed quite a bit during the conference and how the credit reporting industry is adapting to the required changes as companies approach what makes the most sense for their customers during cove it at in the wake of cares act the issue of whether or not to offer customers accommodation or simply suppress trade lines for customers that are impacted negatively by Cova de at of many of the the recent activity in the world what do you think about those two approaches an, how would you advise financial institutions to move forward? Yeah good good question, and this is I. Think one of the issues of the day this whole concept of suppression versus reporting with accommodation it's been it was talked about a lot in Congress, leading up to the passage of the cares act. It's being talked about right now as part of the Heroes Act which is being debated in Congress and it will continue to be I think part of our. Lexicon as we enter the new session of Congress, next year whatever that will look like and I would have to imagine that if the Democrats retake the Senate and the Democrats recapture the White House the the the issue of suppression is our reporting with accommodation will continue to will continue to feed into the policy debate. So the issue is there's a couple of things here at play As, a result of the cares I'm sorry as a result of the covert one, thousand, nine, hundred pandemic with which we are still living in will apparently be living with for a little while longer at least. Consumers who have adverse information as a result of COVID because they've lost a job etc that that the concept of suppression is that adverse information should not be reported to the credit bureaus that we think In fact that we know is significantly worse out from consumers while Noble and intent to protect consumers. The outcome is far worse for consumers for a number of reasons if data's reporting is being suppressed, there's a few things happening or not happening number one consumers accounts are not being updated, and if they're not being updated for a significant length of time, they will ultimately be dropped off entirely from credit report. If a consumer is making positive payments even if it's smaller than typical or even if it's under accommodation that's not going to be reported. So if you'll pardon the PUN, a consumer is not getting credit for their good credit behavior. and. There's a number of other reasons why supression as bad for example, it's hard to dispute or perhaps even impossible to dispute. A tray line if it's being suppressed from the file, lots of other damage, and of course, there's a significant risk management issue. A lot of people who are listening to this our. Work, for financial institutions, and if you are forced to make a lending or credit extending decision based upon a significant lack of information than how can you possibly make a valid risk management decision and the answer is it's difficult if not impossible. One of the lessons from that we learned from the great recession of twenty eight is that a lender needs to take a credit extension accompany lending credit extending etcetera has to take a full complete view of consumer credit file. So the great benefit of the cares act which really codifies longstanding industry practices is that when a consumer is in an accommodation, that consumer must be reported as current. So it really It really creates statutory mandate around what's long been a system established by the credit bureaus in concert with the data furniture's that are providing data to to the consumer reporting agencies. So I think this will be part of the public policy debate for a while but I think. Sound financial lending economic practices. And good consumer assistance demands that. Consumers be reported in accommodation as opposed to data suppression. Well that's certainly an eloquent. Arguments for combination over suppression but of course, many financial institutions are facing. Remote work forces that have been pushed out of the office are facing lots of challenges with their obligation of the F. Sierra to report not only accurate information but. Information to the credit bureaus ed the see if you be I, know has issued a policy statement that would take into account. Some of those challenges that financial institutions are facing right now with regard to their F- Cra obligations but the the National Consumer Law, center also issued a statement in clear opposition to the CFO vs willingness to consider these challenges by face by financial institutions. What are your thoughts on that? You know the be approached. The right one is NC L. C. on the on the right side on this. Please share yes, sure. Obviously when the whole world fell apart in the middle of March or so and there are plenty of days like that feel like March, the two hundred and eighty third at this point but. Obviously everybody and I mean everybody had to do business in a different way and for credit bureaus and for financial institutions, it meant like for a lot of other people sending people home having people work out of their homes the extra challenge for credit bureaus and a financial institutions that there's a lot of sensitive financial information that can't be sent home and there's a lot of things that can't happen when when consumer assistance people. are working out of their living rooms as opposed working into into their into their call centers. Call centers is another big problem because obviously, you need to take in response to consumers are very timely way. And you can't do that as as well as as was done before. So the FTC, I'm sorry the PB. Issued this policy statement at the towards the beginning of the crisis which allowed for flexibility on the part of consumer reporting agencies and financial institutions in dealing with consumers. There was some sharp criticism from that by some consumers special interest groups some sharp criticism by Some. attorneys-general primarily democratic attorneys general and then just recently some consumer or special interest groups sent yet another letter to the CFP I guess in the last week or two calling for a repeal of that of that policy statement because people are now coming back to work. I still think flexibility is the order of the day we are still. And I mean kind of the collective we hear of consumer reporting agencies, data, users, data, furniture's that we are still living in deeply uncertain times, and I am not I don't have a complete view into consumer assistant centers or into call centers. So I don't exactly know but I have to assume that even if people are coming back in, they're still being spaced further apart, which means that you can't populate a consumer assistance facility with staff like you had before So I still think flexibility is the order of. The day and I hope that this policy statement sticks around at least for a little while longer until we have a better understanding of where if how, when this pandemic ends, when can we get people back to the office back to the call centers back to the consumer assistant centers, and as we all know work is probably not going to look the same in next July September December as it did in February January twenty twenty. So I still think that flexibility is necessary for a little while longer. Sure and another policy area there have been proposals calls for the creation of a new public credit bureau for vice. President Joe Biden has spoke in favor of this. What's CDI's position on that? Yeah, as you might imagine, we're not terribly enthusiastic with public, credit bureau and not just because and it's not because we don't mind the competition competition is is ultimately good for everybody but what is a public credit bureau trying to solve for and? There are. Two things that are pretty well covered already one Let's. Let's break down. The chew stated reasons why a public credit bureau some feel is necessary. One because credit reports are inaccurate and the government could have credit file stir more accurate than the private sector. To. A public credit bureau will be a better deal a better job at expanding the pool of financial inclusion in this country. So let's break these down into accuracy. We talked a few minutes ago that credit reports are extremely accurate. We say the perk study says Ninety, seven, Ninety, eight percent the FTC's study says ninety, five percent. That's that's pretty good and I think it's even better as I said before when they were last measured a decade ago or so. So the accuracy box is checked and a credit credit bureau it. If you're if you're trying to stand up a credit bureau to make credit reports more accurate than a public credit bureau is not going to accomplish that objective because credit reports are already highly accurate. So now let's look at financial inclusion. There are tens of millions of consumers that are that are not part of the financial mainstream, and that is a huge problem that is tens of millions of problem. CDI and our members are deeply passionate about expanding financial inclusion and getting more people into the financial mainstream as possible, and that means using alternative data like. Rental Information Rental Payment Information Utility Information Telecommunications Telecom. Information things like that. We are one hundred percent on board in bringing more alternative data into the private credit reporting system to bring more consumers into the financial mainstream. Public Credit Bureau is not going to magically be able to do that. What has to change to get landlords to report to get telecoms to report to get utilities to report is changes in loss. It is a huge barrier. The era stands as a huge barrier to get people partic- particularly alternative data providers to report to the credit bureaus and utility context. In fact, there are laws that actively prohibit utilities from reporting data to the credit bureaus. So if in fact, it is a goal of the potential Biden Administration which I which I believe it is which they say it is and it is. A goal of ours, our shared goal to expand the pool of financial inclusion. A public credit bureau is not going to solve that what has to happen is we have to encourage more voluntary pry reporting, and most importantly is we have to change the laws to reduce the barriers to entry to allow these alternative data providers to provide data to the credit bureaus to consumer reporting agencies, thanks, Eric and I've asked you a lot of questions today and I wanted to make sure that you have the opportunity. Is there anything else from the recent conference? You WanNa. Make sure to highlight today for our audience. I guess maybe a couple of things One of the things that we are particularly proud of at CDI the Consumer Data Industry Association is the kind of information and training. Is Kind of information we provide generally to financial institutions but more particularly we provide some really helpful information on the data reporting. As you know we work with our members to maintain the metro data reporting format. So for financial institutions who are listening that want additional information about the metro two format and some webinars and some training that we do around around Metro reporting hop on our website at C. D. I online dot Org C. D. I A. Online Oh, and we're dot Org I. Hope I'm allowed to give this commercial by the way Kim I hope you're not going to charge me for this So. So from our website, you can get information about metro to data reporting the webinars that we run the trading sessions that we do. And also we run during the course of of the any given year a number of webinars on hot topics in consumer reporting, and you can probably find some additional information about that a- At our website as well. Thanks Eric Chris. I. WanNa. Thank both you Kim for moderating and you eric for being on our program today and of course, thanks most of all to our listeners for tuning in today Be Sure to visit our website at Ballard Spahr dot com where you can subscribe to our show at Apple, podcast Google play spotify or your favorite podcasts platform, and don't forget to check out our blog consumer finance monitor dot com for daily insights about the financial services industry and our biweekly mortgage banking update. If you have any questions or suggestions for the show, please email us at podcast at Ballard, SPAHR DOT COM, and stay tuned each Thursday for a great new episode. Thank you all for listening.
FTC Signals an Alarm on Children Advertising
Youtubes New Kids Content Policies Explained
"Here's an explanation of Youtube. New Kids content policies will be limiting the data. They collect from videos that are targeting children. This is in an effort to comply with the FTC's demands that they be responsible for the information they gather on their site which lists children among the most frequent audience members. Wording in the e mail suggests that YouTube is helping creators comply with COPPA as well as meeting the demands that the Federal Trade Commission input on Youtube as a media company Youtube will use an algorithm to monitor videos for child centric content and flag it. As such. If it's not flagged by the creator of the video the email reminds creators to be vigilant to properly tag their videos if they're made for children as failure to comply would cause them to be in violation of the FTC's sees demands the FTC has outlined. What constitutes children's content and Youtube has that information available on their support? Page Youtube announcement briefly defines children children content as directed to children as the primary audience for example videos for preschoolers or directed to older kids but children are secondary audience for example example cartoon videos that primarily target teenagers but are also intended for younger kids Youtube Guidelines State that they may override content creator settings if if their contents seems to be geared toward kids but isn't marketed as such this could result in content creators being democratized or held accountable in some other way for not properly categorizing their content what parents should know the FTC find youtube for their inability to comply with COPPA and told them they had to have a plan by next year to keep children's data private on their site. Many thought you two kids was the solution but so few parents actually used the kid version of Youtube so children remain a major ager audience for youtube main site and APP. The information creators give to youtube about their videos in channels will help you to know what videos to collect data from that will be it used for advertising in the future also. The advertising on videos marked as for children will be different focusing on the content of the video as an indicator of the audience rather rather than viewing data from the viewers themselves. These changes in my opinion are a step in the right direction for Youtube. Their collection of data from young audiences have been a point of contention for techs safety experts. Security and privacy agencies and family advocacy groups for several years now the policies hand down by the FTC are indirect response of some of these experts in agencies asking for an investigation into Youtube for the lack of compliance with the children's online privacy protection. Act as parents. We rarely think about our kids digital digital footprint being collected and used against him but it is happening every time they log onto an APP or a game it is important however to remember that the trail they leave behind online. We'll we'll follow them for the rest of their lives. The things they buy the sites they visit the videos they watching the games they play are all being compiled to create a profile on them. That will be used to market market to them online for years to come if parents remember that our children's web traffic is being collected. We can take steps to protect them from excessive data collection encourage them to use messenger. APPS that are made just for kids like facebook messenger kids instead of the regular facebook Messenger. Or what's that remind them that what they share online online becomes public the moment they share it. Tell them that they should use video game apps that are intended for kids and made by major developers who are more likely to comply with COPPA. OPPA parents are responsible for the safety of their children as well as their privacy insecurity so take the steps you can to keep their data private. Thank you for watching it for listening a Michael print because family dot org and family tech blog dot com visit because family dot org slash partnership to see how you can help us continue continue to educate parents and keep their kids safe online.
Marlboro and Juul under FTC Investigation #1435
"This is the new central. My name is Todd Cochran coming to from FEMA region five in the new media production studio hideout designed by automate dot com and coldwater Michigan. The lead stories are the F. T. C. his sued Marlborough in Jewel Amazon stopped selling P. P. E. to the General Public T. Mobile and sprint have merged and base books debuts as Standalone Messenger on Mac and PC. I WANNA welcome it episode. One thousand four hundred thirty five of the Geek News Central Podcast for Thursday April second this show sponsored in part by go daddy dot com and listeners. Just like you great deals from go. Daddy can be found a geek news central dot COM board slash. Go Daddy you also can support this show today. At Central Dot Com forward slash insider baby coming. An insider of this podcast. We're live once again. A Geek News Central Dot Com board slash live live docking news center. We'RE ON FACEBOOK RUN. Twitter were on twitch. Just about anyone can be a low greg. Hello Clint Greg. How's Year a fourteen day Corentin going out there in Aloha land so Welcome everyone to the show for those who your brand new listeners. The show I want to thank you for being here. Thank you for checking the show for the very first time and the most important part is you get over to central Dot Com and get you subscribed to the show when you get subscribed the show. You'll never miss a single episode long as you. Click on one of those links to be apple podcast. Google podcasts spotify tune in aunt subscribe on. The androids scribe to a stecher. Feed or simply by email doesn't really matter we get. You hooked up here with the being subscriber of the showing check the newsletter as well newsletter link is on the website everything. I talked about during the show tonight. We'll go out in the newsletter contains essentially a A link a little note. It's the same as in the blog posts along with all the links to all the shows now. Of course we want you to listen to the show on the variety of places that this podcast is at and you can check this show out re city. Find out where we're at live. You can listen on blueberry dot com. You can listen. You're smart home. Device by using the magic word to launch that devices they play the podcast. Geek News Central. You can join our chat room. We've got a mastodon Chat Server Geek. News Dot Chat. We've got a discord channel. We have a slack. Channel details are in the show notes on how to join the discord channel. So that way you'll stay connected with us at all times that's really really important. And of course you can contact me via email and or E mails a first place news achieve L. DOT COM Of course on twitter at Geek News and the most important part is I'm here on facebook. Of course just as often as I'm anywhere else and you want to pay attention to our partner showcasing as well a partner shows include the GNC week in review with Kirk corless. We've got to gather professor. Mr Don wish just literally hung up the phone with Don not two minutes ago the progress the pro gears site me written by my team the new media show which we did a special episode today on New Media. Show DOT com. And of course we have the podcast legend show which is expired but anyway he can always pick up Ohana gear at CAFE PRESS DOT COM for Special Hana store and most important part of this show is supported by our sponsors sponsors at go daddy getting center dot com slash. Go Daddy's that sponsor we want you to save money on daddy products and services. You can do that very simply all again. Just go to the website and once you on the website you'll find all these great deals whether it be thirty percent off new product purchases of four ninety nine dot com a dollar amount a dollar a month economy hosting for the first year of the free demane dollar a month manage wordpress housing for the first year with free domain and a free trial. Go Daddy website. Builder your choice of personal business. A business plus plans again. All those codes are there. Just click on the link to Lock in the savings or use the code at pond. Checkout definitely pay attention when you're seeing those economy hosting accounts and that free domain name. 'cause they will try to lock you in for a three year deal. That's okay if you do that but just understand that it's not going to be twelve bucks when you check out. Change that multiplier to one year. It's a dollar dollar a month. Twelve bucks get you out the door with free demane on a product that you can try to To practice maybe building website building a business. Many of you are home. Sadly maybe The the industry and has laid you off might be a good time for twelve bucks. Twelve bucks you can make an investment in yourself for investment a new business definitely check that out they go daddy website builders a great one to your choice of personal business or business plus plans that is a little more expensive on a month to month basis is designed for business people but again you can get away with those economy a wordpress hosting lots of plug ins there to be able to really make your your website shine and again check those offers out. See what's available Gordy beaten central Dot Com forward slash. Go Daddy get yourself locked in to save save. Save US my savings. Save up to eighty seven percent. Your use of those codes really powers keeps lights on keeps insurance fed So we appreciate your support. Really do all right so let me just talk just a little bit here about how man. It's if you watch the news you you're gonNA like having coronary all right. I'm just just warning you. Hey there a lot of wizards Washington today. So That's interesting. Hey Welcome. Thanks so much for being here. Hey Clinton how you doing toby? How're you doing so anyway? And that's secret code work for those either. Don't know I'm just kidding The it's it's just I. Today I left it off all day and I turned it on five for the presence briefing and I think the thing that triggered me as I got triggered and I never get triggered right is what I heard. They're having these black market sales of personal protective equipment. So you've got the FEMA buying stuff. You've got governors buying stuff and then you've got brokers buying stuff instead of buying it for hospitals here in America there box net stuff up and shipping it overseas so we're buying stuff and bring it on airplanes and then because they're using the supply system to to feed all the hospitals people are getting in there and pick and stuff off. Well that's coming to an end tomorrow and I would not want to be on the receiving end of the Department of Justice when they come in. Care Damn door in on this. Pp that you're buying as an American and sending away for America just to make some extra bucks now it's a People say it's the American way right but What if your mom is in a hospital and needs You know someone that's GonNa be taking care of them to be protected and vice versa. So I hope they string these folks up by their by their toenails to be honest with you. So we'll see what happens with this. I'm sure it's going to be more in the news as the reporters start to dig their heels in again just another thing to talk about and But the thing that makes me mad the thing that I'm still a little bit grumbling about is a few days ago. My governor here. In the State of Michigan she had Basically told doctors that she could not use what everyone has pretty much known up to this point but at least the last week or we can have is that These drugs that the president and the FDA south have approved in treating patients with severe symptoms. She had basically up until very late. This week had threatened. Physicians Prescribing. The drug say there are subject to administrative action. Should they continue to use the medication? Will today my governor Michigan Democrat Governor Gretchen? Whitmer has requested emergency supply. The drugs touted as having success treating patients with severe symptoms novell corona virus and reversal from the states directive medical professionals last week to avoid the medication. For this purpose Michigan this week has requested Hydrochloric Cohen and caloric win from the strategic national stockpile physicians to help treat patients with Kobe. Nineteen after the FDA over the weekend granted emergency use authorization for anti-malaria drugs which other jurisdictions had already said go forth and be successful snot. The Miracle Drug. It's not gonNA help everybody but this state has a three point. Eight six percent death rate three point eight six percent death rate where New York? Most other states are harboring in the one point. Three one point four rage. So is this the difference between four percent and one and a half percent death rate per hundred patients. It makes you think a little bit here now. If I was a family member that have lost a loved one here in the State of Michigan and they were refused the access to this drug. That was at least for two weeks on the radar being known to have had success in France and also had been using it as gentle regimen in China. I think I'd get myself an attorney. It's any say we're GONNA save everybody but at least two studies says it's looking pretty good and and hospital. Physicians and nurses in New York are using it as a prophylactic. The basically protect themselves. Now what is this just to be clear? We know that this is a malaria drug. I took this drug for months on end and doxycycline as well took a variety of drugs to the to prevent malaria when I was travelling overseas for many many years and especially in the early eighties being in places. Even after. Got All my shots. The is on the stuff for years. They care about my heart. They didn't want me get malaria. So I was using it as a prophylactic as a preventive measure to catching malaria not to treat malaria. So these doctors and nurses I think are on track here to have done what they've done and yet in this state out of spite or whatever reason she decided to threaten doctors with administrative action if they used it and I am just not happy. I know a few other states did as administrative actions to stop Dr Shrum like prescribing it for themselves and further their their parents and their kids. But if you got doctors that WanNa do that for the parents or their kids. Then they're gonNA do that for the patients you know. I think all of us would probably at this point with like to have her hands on a little bit of that supply. People say oh. Never take a drug without your doctor's permission she whatever and a lot of people do and have and will do in the future into that at your own risk and I'm not saying we should Be using that when people are dying but after this is all over I can absolutely guarantee you there will people going online ordering this stuff from India and bringing it in and stashing it. I don't Care Peo- don't do that. He what just go ahead go about your business so anyway. That's kind of my my irritant right. Now we'll open up the call line at the end of the show today again. You WANNA call in. Mbc Those you watch live if you WANNA stick around get through the actual tech stuff here said me bitch about the doctors which doctors the governor and not complain about the doctors. They're doing they're doing heavy duty right now. They need all our accolades and support. But when I'm a don guess I'm done here talking about the government we can move on but some of you including can't wait to hear Adam Curry in the no agenda. Show talk about this announcement. The FTC today has announced that they're going to sue to unwind Marlboro. Yes the cigarette company. They're twelve point. Eight unwind their eight twelve point. Eight billion dollar investment and. We talked about this on this show. Many vaping maybe you don't care but the two companies are accused of illegally restraining trade. They were the ones that really had a lot of influence. Had stuff run through Congress disc simply destroyed other competitors and At the time even people upset within jewel due to the sudden hypercritical stance of claiming to be a way to help people quit smoking. And then having a mid major investor that was to- tobacco giant S- according to the FTC. The partnership came up after Ultra Algeria. Which is the company that owns brands like Marlboro and Virginia? Slims agreed not to compete with upstart getting exchange for that big steak and It did they conspired and a really bay really turned the tables on a lot of companies in all this stuff about strawberry flavored vaping. And all that stuff all those flavors they were instrumental they were ultimately instrumental in pushing for that band. I don't care if you've ape. It's that's your business. I don't care if you smoke care you drink with that. That's your choice right and I don't care if you smoke and the kids are going to be smoking. Strawberry vapes well. The kids will be smoking. Cigarettes O- otherwise a but anyway the flavored vapes are gone and now jewel is the. Ftc ARE GONNA come ahead. I hope they just get a ripped a new one day. Be Honest with you. I hope the FTC comes down really really really hard on them. So Yeah Greg. I won't read your comment on the Air. Live but yeah. I wonder if she would've one one could only ask one could only wonder so anyway. Hey thanks for being here for you on. If you're watching live make sure you say hello. You know where I'm primarily the watches on facebook's if you're on youtube or if you're on on On twitter wherever it may be just come over to facebook dot com for slash Cochran. You'll find me there. You can participate the public stream. Come over and say hello. Next thing up Amazon is GonNa Stop Selling Ninety five and surgical masks to the public. So if you're trying to get just a surgical mask nothing. That was an ninety five. You can't you're done you can't order these anymore. It will prior tries hospitals in governments instead so now my sister the other day. Kim. She's a nit a nigger and she was knitting. Some mass is town. I said That's not going to help in any way shape or form she goes. No no no. This is going to go over the mask and I'm like and then you're just going to have another thing you gotta wash. So I know they're making mask and people are selling stuff and it's going to be a market. That's going to be big huge from now on but you're not gonna get it through Amazon They're gonNA privatize hospitals and governments instead I have one one and ninety five mass that I found one. I don't have ten I have one and You know what good is is one you can use it for one day and you have to throw it away or whatever unless you have one of those machines but no one has those except for hospitals now. So that's the news out of What's going on with Amazon? Some Updates T. mobile has merged with the sprint except California's pissed because they went ahead and did it without California's permission. So I guess it's better to ask forgiveness and asked for permission the California whatever the tax board or whatever that group is there you know the the twenty five layers of bureaucracy in California to do business and it's really that level of bureaucracy Basically told him to wait till the sixteenth. But I think T- moments sprint is just about had enough so don't worry it doesn't change too much with more than one hundred million users to carries a now have a custom race closer to skill to larger rivals. Eighteen Bryson There'll be a big change coming especially for sprint customers. Who all of a sudden a new provider from devices and five G. to rate plans and features and Here's the main thing your phone's going to still work Just because of mergers closed does not mean that your phone will no longer connect both Tim O. `Esprit networks will be up and running in devices that connect them should be able to do so for now for any for without any interruptions with Britain joining t mobile users on both networks. You start to see improvements in coverage in fact this process has already started with T. mobile expanding roaming agreements let sprint users onto its network. As part of his response to the pandemic and So it's just going to happen automatically you get free roaming. Is this all one company now? But we'll see what happens over time with billing and five G. and plans and all that stuff so that is sports coming but now they are once so sprint lives to see another day and T. mobile might be able to compete a little bit more with the with the big boys and Depending on where you live here. I live out in the country. T. Mobile is is by far king? verizon is close behind. At and T. is absolute G. and So we'll see what happens there. Facebook has debuted. Check this out. Don't think the corona virus didn't affect them they debuted a standalone messenger. And Mac. Excuse me a messenger APP for both Mac and PC's so now you're gonNA have video calls and chats to your desktop again. It's a separate APP completely. It's not tied directly to facebook so That's big news on on that front So yen you can do in unlimited and free group video calls. The desktop at will sink across mobile offer notifications for new messages and support dark molding gifts in the past month they spoke says it seemed more than one hundred percent increase in people using the browser of course Their desktop browser face yeah using messier. I guess so. You'll never longer have to juggle browser tabs and windows. It's a separate APP all by itself. Okeydoke we'll see what happens there. Zoom boy they they have really they really really really have. Come under scrutiny. I did for zoom meetings today. Actually each of them was anywhere between thirty minutes in an hour. The last one of the day was an hour. Five solid performance. I've been paying for that service for more than a year. My company has now a total of four. Those accounts going my DEB's have one may sales and marketing has one. I have one independently And then my one of my sales guys has won in penalty so we got four zoom accounts that were paying for annually and What we are finding out that Zuma sharing data with facebook they were sharing data with linked in so even though I'm paying for something I'm not a free medium user. I'm a I'm a paid customer. I guess they still were looking to make more money on the side so apparently they've shut that all down. The New York Times discovered Zuma's boarding a data mining feature automatically match users names and email addresses to linked profiles when they were signed in even if there were anonymous are using a student on their call of another user in the meeting was subscribe to a service. Called blinked in sales navigator. They're able to access the linked in profiles of other participants in the zoom meeting by clicking an icon next their names without those users knowledge or consent. A doing very naughty things and I. I'm doing a little bit of investigation on this myself It appears and I haven't been well. I will just wait to talk about this later but the CEO who is claiming. I don't know anything. We'll see where this comes in. And you know big brother China. All this it could be very well relate and if it is zoom is going to be in deep deep deep deep deep deep Doodoo So time will tell all right Moving off here Google. This is a weird one. Google is going to be in lifting corona virus. Add bad now check this out and I am reading directly from the verge an you tell me what you think about this Google start. Let's start to lift its ban on coronavirus advertising this week after policy caught fire from Democratic lawmakers who feared eight may bolster misinformation from the White House Over the next few days. Google begin to Lao government entities hospitals medical providers and NGOs to run ads related to the novell corona virus on his platform. Since February the most non-governmental advertisers have been barred from running ads related cove nineteen to stifle organization seeking spreading misinformation or profit off the panic. Democrats grew concerned that the broadband allowed the White House to boost response to the pandemic per prohibited Democrats from Democrats from criticizing it. The policy was designed to protect users and block ads. It tried to capitalize short-term events like natural disasters. A Google spokesperson told the verge now. We're looking to support limited cove in nineteen related ass from hospitals medical providers government entities. Ngos in the coming days though Goule expand the pool of advertisers allowed run ads in emails tainted diverge Google ahead of industry. Marc Beatty told advertiser. We're planning to allow quote unquote other advertisers including political organizations. Run Rad's related to Kobe. Nineteen will have more information to share on this in the next few days But say you sounds to me that the president's getting too much attention and the Democrats don't like it. We'll see what kind of ADS. Keep your eyes out please. I want you all to be on the watch. And we'll see I pay. I have no problem with With ads being run from NGOs government entities hospitals medical providers. That's that's fine. If you're doing a public service announcement on educating and not selling something but what happens I want to see what the political ads are and When you start seeing the political ads please let me know what the context of those ads for two. We'll see what they're saying. That people should do all right. So a Geek News at Gene Dot Com. You know how come how come we've got a hundred now. Two hundred and some thousand people infected with krona virus. We've got ten million people at a minimum. I bet it's more like twenty because people can't get through to the unemployment offices unemployed. We have nurses doctors. Emt's all the medical field stress to the absolute Max and these fricken politicians can't leave politics alone for more than an hour. It just makes she just see where we're really add. And where people's priorities are D- think with some of the actions. That have happened lately. I I don't WanNa make the show political show but digest smells in reeks to high heaven. It really really does when we have people dying by the hundreds every day. Nasa is asking its employees for new ideas. Comback Corona virus. It's calling its workforce to come up with creative ways that the agency can help fight the crow virus pandemic so They just had the delivery. T of a spatial ex spacex dragon resupply craft and they were all wearing portable breathing gear while entering the space crash. Just in case there are any particulates or irritants in the air that could have come loose while launching space so They were even worried about the virus hitching. A ride didn't they spray. That thing down before it came into space it. It's it makes me think just a little bit here I. I'm hoping that they disinfected that. They had to. That's part of their normal normal deal. You know air filtered it out and everything so anyway for more than six years. Nastase overcome a range of unique challenges now the agencies looking you'll ever his expertise and capabilities helped the nation with unpreced challenges of Corona virus. So the looking for out of the box ideas and they talked about on the last show right out of the box ideas and times a national need. People come to us with out of the box. National Needs National Combat. The box ideas as just like you know them catching he's Black marketers of P. E. You know talk about almost unpatriotic thing you could ever do but you know people are always looking to get rich on the backs of other whether hey what you know what let why let a good crisis go to waste right with the all the trillions of dollars being spend you can absolutely guaranteed people are going to get their pockets filled one way or the other sadly in a little bit of good news. Apples highlighting apps out families manage autism amid the krona virus for Autism Acceptance Day the company's calling attention to appearance with neuro diverse children so You know these These parents with the kids on the spectrum. They are typically have released at school age. They have their kids in school in. Go get into program and and The parents get a few hours of of relief to be able to work and take care of what they need to take care of that these MOMS and dads are all home and oftentimes kids on the spectrum. Need a lot of extra help is just a simple fact. And it's good. Apple has done this for Autism Acceptance Day. And we gotta think about regardless of a you know a of a child or children within families status who is a big change with the moms and dads are home and with all the kids. It's a that's a big challenge. Just itself we're not used to operating this way for many families in the United States. Now there's a lot of stay home moms and dads and people homeschool and all that. They're having a little bit of a laugh about this. But there's a lot of people have parents that work and this is a for experience with the having their kids twenty four hours a day seven days a week so It's going to be an interesting ride. Lots to be learned out of this. I think and hopefully a lot of positive things will come out to right so you want to be an astronaut. Well twelve thousand people applied to fly to the moon as NASA optimus astronauts. Of course many applied. Only a few will be chosen. I think they're going to pick like thirty six candidates or something like that Oh a dozen. They've narrowed it down to a dozen astronaut candidates. That's that's crazy or they're going to narrow it down to a dozen and it's been a few years since they had astronaut class per se so exciting stuff for those that That win a ride. Your home you deal with your email inbox. You know that could be a problem right now. I know I'm getting a lot of hate you. I'll be one thing. He has some disposable income. If you actually do have some money that you can spend deals. I'm Gettin deals lots of deals. Fifty percent this seventy five percent off this. I'm really watching especially from a business perspective. That stuff because coming in I saw a deal that came in it was an item that maybe six months ago. I would have needed that. I actually did by pay. Full retail for that was on sale today from a major electronic supplier for like sixty five percent off. I'm just like Geez you know so desperate times. People are mark and stuff way way down so be aware of those deals coming to your inbox. But anyway you're still have too much clutter chrome extensions. There's some chrome extensions. It will declutter overflowing g mail inbox. Help you at that. This is Some tools provided by life hacker information and be up in the show notes tonight as well. Facebook is pulled down fake accounts linked to Egypt and France. So there was eighty of. They pulled down more than three hundred fake accounts pages and groups tied to France and Egypt. These were fake news sites that were running ads like Hey Egypt is the safest place to travel to right now. Intermixed with all kinds of positive message type of It looked like news but it was really trying to promote tourism and a variety of other things No one's going anywhere. No one's going anywhere. You WANNA Travel International. You know where. Where can you go international now and not have to spend fourteen days in your hotel room? I I that that would be a cool puzzle. Someone come up with the actual destinations that you can still go to and not get locked up upon arrival You can't even go from state to some states states now without them wanting you to self quarantine for fourteen days let alone go internationally. So anyway. And they were inter- spitting Inter spreading corona virus stuff in those counts too so facebook got rid of them why become official the. Fcc is going to vote on the rules this month. The new spectral make extremely low latency high throughput Wifi and of course the new six GIGAHERTZ BAN IS GONNA run at five point nine to five to seven point one two five Gigahertz so A lots of penetration power with that frequency and You know today isn't the the the main reason the main worry today isn't far. How isn't how far WI FI will reach? Its really how much bandwidth you can get through those devices. The legacy two point. Four GIGAHERTZ BAN is almost entirely unusable for many urban dwellers crowded with Microwave Ovens Bluetooth headsets and every inner things of an device imaginable so Yet so it's GonNa make some room here and of course The WIFI spectrum is Ra pretty complex and But anyway some more spectrum for Wi fi Six E which will probably start showing up in devices and In the next year. So so this has been voted on in half Ford will be laid out good article on it for those of you that want to follow it. Nastase bringing back. Its ICONIC WORM LOGO to return to mark the return of Nasr's returned to space. You know it's beautiful. Look at this. This is a picture of the Falcon nine rocket that will launch creggan drew. The Crew Dragon spacecraft with Nasa astronauts on board so getting ready to get ready for the for the launch. So I think that they iconic logo you know. Sometimes some stuff is just each master. Some stuff right. And that's that's a a logo that they just need to To implement and The space agency said the Retro Looking Locally Stamp on the side of the Falcon nine and what sedate. What are the date? Are we GONNA do this? When are we winter? We back to space is it may set the date are they pushed it Did into done. They haven't said what exact date it would be. I know the original plan was in. May with everything going on. Who knows I'm excited? You know we've been out of the lift business sense to retire. The space shuttle and It pleases my heart greatly to see that it will be a commercial contractor That's going to put You know put people back at the International Space Station not having to be lifted by the Russians anymore and we'll put our own you don't put her own Astronauts in American made stuff so very very exciting are ebay is waving seller fees for new businesses to help shuttered retailers. Move On Line and The company's new up and running program waves seller fees through June thirtieth. Greg saying what really he said. Who Governor is trying to ban all tours travelled to Hawaii. I I understand why I'm just surprised. Hawaii has gotten out as light as it. Has this time with all the international travel to Hawaii and everything that's come in from everywhere all the Japanese and everything so D- only have two hundred and some cases at this point. I think is pretty remarkable for why to be honest with you. The trade winds helped Greg because the trade winds move the virus off shore. Then anything that's airborne so I think that helps a lot. I don't know maybe I'm wrong Oh that's interesting you're GONNA promote my podcast on itunes or someone just sent me a message on Messenger. Please please be careful. Don't be doing that all right. So you haven't some bandwidth issues at home have an android phone. Well there's a good article or how to Sh- how to share your android phones mobile connection by tethering or hotspot gives you a little information there and so anyway There's information in the show notes on how to do that. Hbo IS MAKING A ton of TV. Shows and movies available to for free to not do non-subscribers. There's no game of thrones unfortunately but They're making a number of its original series popular. The wire detected Pichu the sopranos. The move is being described by varieties of goodwill guess your by Warner media in effort for him. The kilometer vite entertainment to people cycle home due to the novell corona more than five hundred dollars content will be made available with many. Hbo's top series among the list. So if you don't have the HBO APP loaded on your TV. And your smart home device get that loaded and you get access to these free. Movies supplement all the stuff that you're going through already Oh my God. Why are you trying to ask me this computer? Said you WANNA reboot now. Max Aren't supposed to do that. Tesla has beat expectations with strong first-quarter number a delivery numbers deliveries grew forty percent year over year. Despite what's going on the country they produced one hundred and two thousand six hundred seventy two vehicles of first quarter of twenty twenty and delivered. Eighty eight thousand four hundred vehicles to customers. The company announced to investors while the delivery numbers down from the previous quarter overall results were better than analysts. Expected sending Tesla's stock up more than ten percent in after hours trading. The the fall in deliveries isn't surprising. December. Thirty first two thousand nineteen was a deadline for customers to receive Federal Electric Vehicle Tax Credit so customer sing about buying a car. Had A strong incentive. Do it before the end of the year and of course tests assault similar decline in deliveries between q four eighteen and q one two thousand nineteen to in part to earlier step in the text credit year long phase out so Blah's tax credits for a variety of vehicle. Vendors are going away. Google donated chromebooks and WIFI hotspots. California students in all the company will write four thousand chromebooks and one hundred thousand hotspots. So that's a healthy number Good luck good. Thank you of course. Google has its own mobile spectrum. Too So Amazon has responded backlash with increased protection for its workers so increased temperature scans and provide more surgical mask so earlier this week. Of course we know that the they had a walkout a INSTA- cart wholefoods is so forth but Amazon sharing his plan to increase employee temperature checks and provide surgical masks workers across Europe Europe in the US workers from at least Nineteen Amazon. Warehouses reportedly tested positive. Msn Amazon says already checking more than one hundred thousand employees temperature steely and on another note. They've hired eighty thousand of the one hundred thousand employees. They were looking to hire. So if you're out of work and you WANNA work for Amazon D-. There's not a lot of time left by learning next week. More locations also supposed received surgical mask. The particle blocking in ninety five Mass Amazon order will be donated to medical workers or sold at cost the government so no Amazon workers will and ninety five mask and has in tempera increase pay for warehouse and delivery workers so Amazon. That's what everybody shopping. I got stuff that won't deliver now until May Google is investing six point. Five million to fight corona virus related misinformation interesting the companies also considering how it can fact how it can highlight fact checkers google news so Google says this funding will be donated organizations combating misinformation around the globe with an immediate focus on Rovira viruses. We'll see the company approached the problem from several different angles working with the broad slate of nonprofits. So they're going to work with a group called for strapped and full fact and melted dot. Es so anyway. We'll see what happens there. I know that podcasters that are posting. Podcast ON CORONA VIRUS. Had to be real careful now about titles that they're using because spotify is kicking shows off spotify for Corona virus related titles at our little bit mamie deceptive You know like will vitamin C. Help you prevent corona virus. Well it'll help you stay. More healthy overall allegedly. But you should never say that's GonNa help you from not catching grown virus. That said obvious kind of like implied thing and play treatment and that show got booed. They're gone and I know that other organizations facebook is Is Giving People. Thirty Day breaks. Youtube is You know demonetizing a media so a lot of people trying to take advantage as we've already heard about you know tonight about this black market on p. p. e. so even digital marketeers are consumers. Spent a record twenty three point. Four billion on APPS and quarter went twenty twenty thanks to being stuck indoors so Your appetite for buying stuff hasn't went away your buying APPs. I have not bought any new APPS. Sensus Stop Start. A Corona virus. Did install a free one today. This will probably come in great great People probably really really happy about this. Those of you live in New York City. You guys don't have enough problems already as it is but New York is finally legalized e bikes and ease scooters statewide. The State Senate budget agreement includes a win for e delivery workers soon and The people that are writing those pedal assist bikes and electric scooters. They've all been legalized now. So you know them lately you know with now that you've got twenty laying on the street per block you're going to have fifty now so You know I understand why people ride these things I do but man. Well the pretty organized. I've been seeing videos of stuff in your city. Where all these bikes are lined up in. Iraq's real nice and pretty because no one's writing them they're not lane in the street or in the gutters are in ditches and streams. I bet you. The utility workers are happy to because they're not having the fish them out of sewers and water systems everywhere else. People are drunk and throwing them. Instagram is going to provide shoppers with base. Mass hand. Sanitizers in thermometers. Ooh Well if I was INSTA- cart shopper. I would have already been trained to figure out a way to protect myself. You delivering to all kinds of houses and people come on now. Shut down some krona via secretive. Blue skies and Californian conform could inform future pollution control and So they've got all kinds of cool little videos show. The smog and the pollution having just evaporated over cities blue skies fluffy white clouds of come to southern California So being a plus and minuses. There means people aren't working. So Howard accord. However the pollution reductions led the higher levels of ozone at night ozone can have can also have an effect on human health in is a gas created from the combination of pollutants like nitrogen oxides and other molecules but lower nighttime nitrogen oxides caused in part by fewer people. Driving home from work during rush hour should mean lower nighttime zone levels. But that isn't the case. While nitrogen oxide can create Ozan ozone combined with other molecules. It can also react with ozone which happens most frequently at night. Some march twenty twenty ozone levels aren't much different when considering the daily every from two thousand seventeen to twenty twenty. It's Daily Ozone Swing set of change. Which is directly result of a shutdown. So the trying to figure out how the efforts to control and reduce emissions changes ozone behavior specifically in southern California But Spike pointing out this adverse ozone side effect researchers emphasize improvements an air quality had been exceptional in demonstrating the just. What could happen when people were just so you tell me. Pollution helps ozone it. Don't quite get that. But that's what they're saying Very very odd Legal beyond the shown on system space dot com. If you are a oh what did I miss something? What happened here. They close the window. No Okay Yeah here it is. Oh My. I must've closed window. So if you have slow Wifi an android phone he. They've got some tips for you. Also Top web browsers at twenty. Twenty firefighters sheds share falls behind. Edge was bad news again for Fire Fox and marches Mozilla browser shed users at a pace that left it fall falling behind. Microsoft edge so coordinate posted a firefight. Shares slumped seven point two percent. All come on. Don't do a pop up on me now Down four tenths of a percentage point. It was the fifth month at the last six months in which the browser shed users. So where is edge at? What the number for edge and I've actually got an email from jack talking about edge edges number two at thirteen point five percent and because I hear that edge and I think I remember this by forgot about it edges now built atop chromium code the same that powers chrome. So that's an interesting deal. And but they don't think there is a MAC version of edge so Anyway so some movement there and we'll get into Jackson email here just a second Nasa has got a cool video. This is the you're not gonNA. You'RE NOT GONNA get to see this unless you go. Look at this at you to it was opening. Oh honey turn down the volume here. It was opening of the the new Nastase James Webb Telescope and They have Derelict GonNa do this one more time. So they got a video of it opening up and they've got basically supported so it's like Underlying zero g loads. So it's like it's there's no gravity effect and So anyway this is the first time that is opened itself on its own power and It's really it's a beautiful sight it really really is. I wonder how nervous those guys were to do that. But ANYWAY. This thing is look at this monster. Look how big this Mosser is beautiful. So anyway they're gonNA do this one more time just prior to launch so Definitely WANNA check this video. I'll have the link-up in the show notes for those of you that are are listening to Listening to the show. Okay all kind of people are like messaging and so. There's a lot of phones being delayed. If you're expecting some new phone to come out year probably going to have to wait. There's a stack of them. That are are behind on delivery. I Have Lincoln Shahnaz even see which ones were which I'm going to go over to the email I got from Jack and he says hey. Todd I have an for you. The new edge browsers now running with the chromium engine. I stopped using Google chrome over a year ago. I highly recommend it. Here's an technica technician article about it or technical article about it. Thanks Jack thanks for being here all right so that was the only email I definitely want you guys to consider me when it comes. Time to You know supporting the shelf definitely want you to consider being an insider beating central Dot Com Ford says insider courses sport to the sponsors an ongoing continuous thing. Definitely appreciate it when you do so but You know I want to thank all of you for being here and hanging out with me during the show. Those of you that are watching live. Don't go anywhere we're going to open up the call in line here in a second if you WANNA call in and give people a little time to be able to prepare for to do that. Let's see if I can put it up. Yep and it's going to on skype. Gnc pod one is the address but for those of you listening and you can pry yourself away from watching TV. Seven thirty eastern is my goal to start the show on Monday. And we'll have a call in live at the end of the show which will be you. Know a round eight thirty or so eastern time so You know I love to hear from me and and just see how you're doing in in general and how working from home or how this has affected you But anyway. The rest of either listening via podcasts. Thanks for being here. We'll see on Monday. Take care with you next time bye bye.
Facebook's Latest Tangle with the FTC
"Earlier this year facebook. CEO Mark Zuckerberg announced a New Vision for the company. Any it would help address. Many of the privacy concerns that have been dogging it for the past. Three years as part of that effort Zuckerberg said the company would more closely integrate the great the messaging technology underlying facebook and it's two other big APPS instagram. And what he described how users would be able to send messages securely between all three APPs but there may be an inconvenient roadblock for facebook last week the Wall Street Journal reported that as part of an antitrust investigation the US government is considering stopping facebook from continuing that integration. Today on the show why Zuckerberg wants wants to merge FACEBOOK WHATSAPP AN INSTAGRAM and why the government might try to stop it. Welcome to the Journal. Journal our show about money business and power I'm Caitlyn bought and I'm Ryan Knutson it's Monday December sixteenth when facebook bought instagram in two thousand twelve. The priority wasn't integration. The priority was acquiring a fast-growing rival and turning it into something that would make money for facebook. FACEBOOK was trying to buy the future and so mark dead. What mark does does which is thought Kinda dispassionately about what are the APPS that we should be thinking about and rather than compete with them? Maybe we could buy them depot sith Rahman covers facebook and instagram case. People were using it to post these artistic photos of their life and it kind of encouraged Ridge type of sharing that facebook wasn't seeing quite as much certainly photos on facebook but people were putting a lot of energy into their instagram presences when facebook bought instagram did catch the attention of the Federal Trade Commission which monitors businesses for any competitive practices according to sources the FTC had concerns about facebook acquiring even more users but ultimately it let the deal go forward but what really drew people's attention and the price of the deal. facebook spent about a billion dollars on instagram. which was an absurd amount of money at the time? Yeah I remember people people saying how are you spending that much money on a company that I think back then had no revenue in maybe a dozen employees yes. No revenue doesn't plays a it was mocked on late eight night. A billion dollars of money for thing that kind of ruins your pictures you know it was. It wasn't an an obvious choice for a successful company wasn't an obvious choice that you would a and spend this amount of money on it. While the instagram the grand purchase was initially mocked for. Its price it actually turned out to be a bargain. Based on how popular they became then in just two years later. Facebook paid more than twenty times when it spent on Instagram to buy another company. What's up a messaging service that had four hundred earn fifty million users at the time? Mark made it a similar bet on messaging. He paid what wound up being. Twenty two billion dollars for WHATSAPP ZAP. And that was also seen as an absurd amount of money for something but you know. At that. Point mark and other facebook executives executives really thought messaging is how people are communicating the. FTC also signed off on facebook's acquisition of WHATSAPP and once both of these deals were complete facebook controlled three the world's biggest social networks. Initially facebook large-cap these companies separate from each other and from facebook facebook and the CO founders of instagram and. WHATSAPP believed that they would be on their own that they would be able to execute their vision while being backed act by one of the most powerful companies in the world and for a long time these companies did operate in separate silos? Louis kind of a perfect setup if you're one of these founders you know what better setup could there be kind of unlimited budget. You have your cake and eat it too. Absolutely and they did for years. You know well until facebook started to exert a little bit more control. One of the first major moves toward integration came when facebook connected instagram to its AD platform that allows advertisers to buy targeted ads across both facebook and instagram. At the same time with instagram division was the CO founders would retain tain control over the product. They would control how it looks. I would feel how it expands the new features that are added to it but they would work worked together with facebook on ads and so they plugged into the facebook system and that marriage really worked for a long time you know. The CO founders. Were happy that they were able to execute cute on their own product vision and facebook was happy because they were making lots of money. The Ad Integration was a massive success ads on instagram now. Now account for one fifth of FACEBOOK's overall ad revenue according to one analyst for but for what's integrating with facebook created a lot more more conflict. What's up was a different story? Altogether you know when facebook bought what's up in two thousand fourteen mark Sucker Brook told analysts. I don't believe that ads work in messaging but then that dynamic started to change starting at around twenty sixteen whatsapp co-founders were starting to hear from the facebook top brass. So how are we going to monetize this. Twenty two billion dollar purchase we made. How are we going to make money from it? And they tried to come up with different strategies but ultimately the facebook executives thought Advertising was the best possible way and so there was a clash with co-founders over that over that philosophy. They didn't want to introduce ads in the product at all. What's his resisted advertising from the very beginning because the company says it could compromise the privacy of its users this is something that one of the founders? Here's your income is passionate about. He grew up in Soviet Air Ukraine where the government contract communication. What's up is it encrypted APP? So that means a third party can't intercept a message and unscrambling read it means. facebook didn't have any kind of insight into what its users users for saying to each other and that that was a very different vision from facebook God which was public. Everything is out there for you. To to see and ingest facebook's openness was anathema to. What's up especially when it came to ads well facebook user data to sell targeted targeted ads? What's Apps co-founders once wrote in a blog post? We wanted to make something that wasn't just another add clearinghouse. They also called ads. Insults is to your intelligence. The dispute between the what's APP and facebook leadership grew so bitter that what's co-founders eventually left the company. As a result all the breaking their contracts each founder walked away from payouts worth hundreds of millions of dollars the what's up founders left impart over this issue issue on monetization on actually making money and then there are also discrimi- over what monetization would mean for. Encryption there were certain things things around the edges at facebook one of the CO founders to consider that they wouldn't both what's at founders. Were gone by the spring of two thousand eighteen. Since then in fifth book has announced plans to put ads in what's up and the what's that founders weren't the only high profile departures twenty eighteen. It also happened at instagram. One day last fall the instagram founders suddenly and very abruptly from the outside left and that was the culmination Russian of enormous conflict over control of instagram. FACEBOOK was starting to do things to try to divert instagram's growth into into facebook's growth and push people from instagram facebook and that was very different from before and it impinged their ability to control their destiny in which they really didn't like Zuckerberg replaced these founders with longtime facebook executives and then facebook made one of its biggest just moves earlier this year. Mark Zuckerberg try to articulate what he called kind of privacy focused vision of the social network Zuckerberg outlined his vision in a lengthy blog post which he called a privacy focused vision for social networking facebook of course had faced serious backlash over privacy scandals. Since the two thousand sixteen election and Zuckerberg's blog post announced a new course for the company. He wrote that he wanted facebook to be more like a digital living room than a digital town square and the future of social media was private messaging not public posts he he listed some key aspects for this new facebook including encryption insecure data storage another key aspect of it was his idea that he called interoperability. And it's the ability for the different APPS that facebook manages to speak to each other interoperability. This is what sources say is worrying government regulators right now and this concept of interoperability would mean combining the technology Underlying the three APPs. What's up instagram and facebook? So that they can talk to each other. The idea is if I'm scrolling through INSTAGRAM and I see a post that I really like and then I wanNA share with my friend. My friends not on instagram. I can send it from instagram. To what's up and I can message somebody betty from facebook messenger to WHATSAPP. You can have these threads. He's very tight threads between these different platforms to make all these different APPS. Somewhat seamless facebook says that by connecting the APPS it can ensure that messages sent between them are secure and private Zuckerberg has has said that consumers have wanted facebook to be more secure. You know he looks at crises like Cambridge Analytica Analytica as proof right. So that's why the shift to private messaging and encryption is happening there's also disarmament that he makes sir unease of us. You know it is easier for users to be able to message their friends on different APPS if that's what they choose to do. He frames that as you know more choice and this whole idea is hugely controversial both internally and externally internally the the ideas controversial because facebook employees say it's enormously difficult to actually build the technology to make it possible an externally. It's not clear that consumers consumers are actually clamoring for it. There are a lot of critics though that. Look at that argument and say say no. This isn't about more choice. It's actually about these. Critics are saying is antitrust. This is about making these companies. These different units so tightly interwoven that it's impossible to break up if that comes to pass why critics are saying. It's time for a break-up of facebook and how Oh facebook's move could make that more difficult after the break so my question is male Polish. Some of and names are absolutely ridiculous. I'm Flora Lichtman from every little little things the podcasts that answers your burning questions like who names nail Polish I come up out of surgery anesthesia and the nurses drilling me on what my God. What Am I? Nail Polish Keller is find out more on every little thing. Listen on spotify or wherever. You get your podcasts. Welcome back as facebook executives in California push ahead ahead with their plan. The company is dealing with a significant challenge across the country in Washington. DC This summer. facebook disclosed that it was under investigation. Asian by the Federal Trade Commission for possible antitrust violations. The bigger argument around all of this is around anticompetitive practices. You know is facebook's facebook's enormous resources and sharp elbow tactics have they squashed competition before. It could get started in earnest road because the biggest fastest asas rising companies. What's happened instagram or are part of the facebook family now and other startups like snapchat? Have you know they're surviving. But they're not nearly as dominant absolutely. It's hard to compete with facebook. FACEBOOK denies that it hindered competition in the tech industry. It says that instagram Graham and WHATSAPP were much. Smaller had no revenue when they were purchased. facebook help them grow and the company says it shouldn't be punished for success. Not everyone agrees with that logic. There is a rising group of critics and economists and lawmakers lawmakers who think maybe the solution is facebook should break up and so there is. This groundswell of debate happening around antitrust rest are these companies to big has facebook bought up to many of its competitors has welched. The competition too much disrupted the landscape made it impossible possible for them to have a challenger and therefore to compete on issues like privacy. FACEBOOK have too much power and so these conversations as with each controversy that facebook is enduring. This conversation around should these companies be broken up is getting louder and louder So now bring us up to what we learned last week with the Federal Trade Commission. What is this possibility that they might put an injunction in place that could potentially stop facebook from from moving forward with this interoperability plan? What does that tell us about where this investigation is headed? So last week there was an additional update. The FTC is considering this preliminary injunction that would prevent facebook from stitching all these different APPS together. That's according to people people familiar with the matter and this may not happen the FTC may choose not to make this move but the fact that is under consideration is pretty incredible because facebook has has been working on this for about a year facebook as applying a lot of engineering resources to it and trying to make it happen and the idea the at the FTC might stop that work which is complicated. Work that mark says is a part of his vision for social networking. It really speaks to how different the environment is around facebook these days because this is a company that is built on Mark's ambition. It's a company that is built on his ideas for where the future of communication will go and he has an uncanny knack for predicting that correctly or at least forcing his vision vision to come true through his enormous platform and the FTC preliminary injunction would halt that vision. It would prevent him from being able to see through his vision in a Broadway. What would happen to the investigation? The antitrust investigation if Zuckerberg were to succeed in integrating the companies if you take it from the critic standpoint and there are a lot of facebook critics out there that say this it would make it very hard to break these companies up. is they become more integrated. The lines are a little bit more blurred word. Suddenly these companies are sharing all this information and sharing these assets becomes much harder to tease out. What is part of facebook and what is not and it makes it harder than to take these companies and split them? Apart because they share such critical infrastructure they already share and adds infrastructure which is enormously critical so this is adding another layer of messaging. It just makes the idea of a break-up much messier the remedy becomes less clear. It seems like the government has sort of increasing creasing. Its own leverage by keeping a break-up at least on the table yeah if they're move forward with this junction. Yeah it's a pretty extraordinary move. What does facebook said about the any trump investigation in general? When it comes to anti-trust they disagree? They don't think they should be broken up but they have said repeatedly elite that they would be open to more regulation. I think at this point Zuckerberg has said publicly at a certain point. We do need to be regulated because the current situation cannot stand passed some laws that we can follow so we could stop this relentless stream of criticism and get on with the business the day facebook also said that the three apps are already heavily integrated and then it's moved to stitch the messaging functions together has nothing to do with any trust trust. The company says it's all about making the APPS better for consumers. What do you think is going to happen next? It's unusual consideration from the FTC. Given that they rarely break-up companies and so we're going to have to see if they make this move it's a pretty significant one as as we understand it. They're trying to understand as much as they can about the company and about the way it works and the way that it treats the competition in an the acquisitions it makes so there in fact finding mode but what this consideration of the preliminary injunction suggests that they've learned enough about the way a facebook functions to see the idea of integrating all these different APPs as a potential roadblock to a remedy mm-hmm what that basically means is that project that's been underway at facebook for a year. Now is at risk. It means that it facebook might need to stop that work which the company had considered to be a big part of its future now if the FTC decides to make this move move it's pretty significant one before it could proceed. The Federal Trade Commission would need a judge to sign off on the injunction Which means that facebook would have an opportunity to challenge the move in court? So that's all for today. Monday December sixteenth the Journal is a CO production of Gimblett and the Wall Street Journal. If you like the show follows on spotify or wherever you listen every weekday afternoon. Thanks for listening. See You tomorrow.
FTC Sues Match, Alleges it Conned Users
"AH from wondering I'm David Brown and this is business wars daily on this Tuesday October eighth fiercely competitive tender now outshines matches the parent company's fastest growing dating APP and the FTC so far hasn't mentioned tender investment site the Motley fool argues that investors at least should shrug off the FTC's suit saying the most match will pay fines as sixty million the company here's who didn't find their match within six months would get six months free but didn't disclose extremely difficult requirements for making that happen the emails the FTC's suit claims that match used five different deceptive practices to lure vulnerable daters into paying for plans on its site and and bots from its site within twenty four hours it no longer allows instant messages or favorites and says the vast majority of its communications are via email for lawsuit match is vigorously denying the allegations in a statement on its website officials say it developed tools that eliminate ninety six percent of fake accounts first fate according to the FTC that match had knowingly put customers in danger of being scammed the agency has been investigating Max since twenty seventeen keep them paying creating a profile on match is free but to respond to communication from potential suitors requires a subscription from twenty thirteen type of message that match dot com sent to lots of its users to tempt them to sign up for paid subscriptions one problem though at least one federal agency alleges that over the agency says match sent those notes to people after it had already flagged at potential romantic partner as scammer Andrew Smith is the director of the grew eighteen percent in the last quarter alone and has more than nine million users spread across its various dating apps but what about the lonely person looking com use this strategy for years to plump up its user base and its profits and so the agency sued the match group late September the Goliath people subscribed within twenty four hours of receiving the emails but what they saw when they signed up wasn't what they hoped for the lawsuit claims that upon hundreds of thousands of cases that perfect guy or girl was likely to be a bought con artist or Scammer Federal Trade Commission claims that dating site match dot who were from scammers the suit also claims that match made it very difficult for users to cancel subscriptions it also alleges that the company guaranteed that accent potential subscribers were effective using matches own data the FTC says from two thousand sixteen to twenty eighteen almost half a million it offered to settle last year for sixty million dollars and a promise from the company to shut down those practices match refuse to settle prompting the Septem- of the online dating industry the match group owns match dot com okay cupid hinge plenty officials and its flagship APP tinder along with many other sites they say e mail has a fraud rate of only one percent the company promised to fight the suit in court the online dating industry is growing highly profitable and not C.'s Bureau of Consumer Protection he said quoting here we believe that match dot Com conned people into paying for subscriptions by messages the Company for his or her lifetime companion or even just a weekend date match has a new formidable rival you may have heard of it facebook the social sign up customers either received messages that match had flagged the interested parties scammer or that the account no longer existed or they faced a potentially of course as the Motley fool notes in a display of the obvious facebook has its own problems with privacy and fake news in its announcement of facebook dating the company twenty eighteen Max sent notes to basic users those not paying anything suggesting that a new lover was interested and wouldn't they like to pay to see who it was media site launched its dating APP in the US in early September and facebook has a built in audience of some two hundred million users who say they're single it's it's privacy and security features still the question of whether the gorgeous guy or girl sending you a friend request can be believed or not is a serious one ask any one who met their mate online and they'll tell you they're grateful for online dating but the dangers are real will the true winners in the dating industry be those who can finally did the APPs of bots scammers and con artists. We hope so in the meantime hey we like you and that's the truth Washer won't you that way you'll never miss these thanks a bunch. I'm David Brown and we'll see you tomorrow ear susie he likes you but you can't see him or respond to his email unless you pay for a subscription we bet you want to write this is you from wandering this business worse if you like this episode subscribed.
A swing and a miss: How the U.S. let Google dominate
"Stay tuned after the show for a message from j. p. morgan chase first off. I love that you're calling. These documents obtained the google files. It reminds me of the show. The x files greetings. Second off I'm now fully expecting that. This is going to be a conversation about supernatural investigations. That involve google and there's gonna be some cheesy mid-nineties sci fi music playing below us. I'm jeremy siegel. This is the files in for today's mystery. These documents show what google dead to gain power over online search in the early two thousands and how it continued to dominate the market throughout the late two thousand tonnes including how it took over emerging areas like mobile search via nyland a new documents. That reveal how google became the giants. That is today and how federal regulators happen story. That starts in twenty eleven. It was a really big investigation at the time. It was one of the biggest investigations that he had done. The federal trade commission or ftc had decided to launch in anti-trust probe into whether google was abusing monopoly powers on the internet federal regulators have begun a formal at. I trust investigation into google's business practices legal analysts. Say those concerns will likely focus on. Google search results whether they favored google's own product. Offerings such as mapping where comparison shopping. This was really the. Us's first attempt to do anything with the big tech giants and one of my sources said it was really a swing and a miss a swing and a miss and that miss came at a press conference in two thousand thirteen a good afternoon. Thank you for coming. I was actually on the beat at the time. And so this is almost like coming back full circle for me. I was watching the press conference on my own questions. Well then. They said that they weren't going to google. This morning by a bipartisan. Vote or actually bipartisan. Votes of four to one and five to nothing. The federal trade commission announces comprehensive a comprehensive settlement of all of our competition related investigations into google and unlike normal resolution for a case they decided to accept voluntary commitments from google. Normally what they would do. Is they have a consent order that way if someone violates it they can bring them to court so it was really surprising to everyone that one. The ftc ended up not doing google in to that. They decided to accept this sort of toothless settlement from them so a lot of people have wondered why the ftc decided to do what it did at the time. And now you've got the documents that the google files cusack explain that that explained how. The ftc decided not to pursue an antitrust suit against google. So whenever the ftc investigate something they always assign a bunch of lawyers and economists to any case and then those people go forth and investigate. They'll talk to lots of people they'll look at a lot of documents and a lot of data and then they'll each make a recommendation for the ftc. About what they think that agency should do. And from there the ftc's commissioners these are the politically appointed. People will make a decision on whether to sue or subtle or in this case closed the probe so these memos outline exactly what the regulators and when they were investigating google and their conclusions and these documents are not something that are generally ever made public their closely held within the agency very sensitive documents but in two thousand fifteen. The ftc accidentally released part of them to the wall street journal as part of a freedom of information act request. That is quite the accident to make. You said it was an accident. They gave the wall street journal. Every other page of the first memo and it was redacted every other page every other page like one three and five and seven. Yeah it was actually. It was all the odd page numbers. So it's sorta funny like within the antitrust community. People have poured over these odd numbered pages to try and figure stuff out. But it's really hard when you're reading every other page document to figure out exactly what something meant so that's why it was really great to get these documents. So have every page and have them unredacted because we were able to see some of the things that they were grappling with that google had done and lots of information about how google had changed. Its algorithm in response to competitors over time. So what exactly did you learn reading through all the google files. It was really interesting. There were a lot more things that the ftc investigated than anyone ever knew one of those is that the ftc at the time actually did look at google's control over mobile search. So if you remember back in like two thousand eleven two thousand twelve that's when smartphones were just starting to be popular with everyone in two thousand eleven. Something like eighty. Two percent of americans had a cell phone but only like thirty five of people had a smartphone and there is still quite a few different ones. Blackberry was still pretty popular. Had the iphone and android was just starting to be popular. I think either two thousand twelve or two thousand thirteen is the year that android sort of took over the smartphone market. So the ftc looked at the time at these contracts that google had with lots of people so they had them with. They had them with the individual wireless carriers like eighteen t t mobile and verizon and then they also had them with smartphone manufacturers and what they wanted was to be the default search on every mobile phone pretty much and that's pretty much what they were able to do. They ended up being the default search engine on something like eighty six percent of smartphones within the united states. That sort of interesting because the ftc said when it closed the probe that it looked at this and now you know ten years later the justice department has brought in any trust suit over this exact behavior and these exact contracts the differences. Now you know it's been going on for eight to ten years. It's going to be very difficult for them to do anything. Because there are so few competitors now within the search market if the ftc had done something back in two thousand eleven or two thousand twelve we might not have had this situation we have today so in two thousand thirteen. The ftc's seen these contracts. They know that. Google is trying to become the search engine unlike every smartphone but they decided not to take action. Did you learn anything from reading through these documents about why. They didn't or like what informed their decision. Here there's a lot of interesting stuff in here There are two different recommendations that are sort of the main ones that the commissioners generally look at those are the ones by the anti-trust lawyers and then the ones by the economists. And in this case the any tressler is in. The economists really disagreed. So the economists said that they didn't think that there was much of a problem here and the any trust lawyers said that they thought there was and the ftc ultimately chose not to do anything they they chose to go with the economics arguments. Which is pretty unusual. another thing. that was really interesting. Was some of the things that they predicted about. The future of technology. Look very odd. You know today. Ten years later like they kept talking about. How mobile search was not that important They kept noting that you know only about eight percent of searches take place on mobile phones and that was true at the time because now that many people had mobile phones but today more than half something like sixty something percent of searches take place on mobile phones because he bring it with you everywhere. You know if you're out and about and you're trying to find directions. Use your phone. If you want to get a coffee you look at. Where's the coffee shops near me. And i you know. I was talking to soon. Technology analysts and they said you know it was pretty obvious that this is the way that the market was moving but the ftc sort of missed. It completely. I know it's not our jobs to say whether something or someone was right or wrong but i gotta ask like looking back was the ftc. Wrong here in deciding not to legally pursue google. I know that it's my place to say whether they are wrong or not. But i am sure that a lot of people are going to look at this information that they had at the time and wonder why they didn't do something. The ftc said. If you go back to this press conference that. I'm talking about google's primary reason for changing the look and feel of its search results to highlight its own products was to improve the user experience. That what they found was on balance. She ain't that. Google products were good for consumers. But that's not really what they found They didn't even look at the biggest. Change that google made to product which was introducing. Go shopping they introduce that in may two thousand twelve. The ftc concentrated much of its investigation on these changes that google had made to the algorithm in two thousand seven and then later two thousand eleven so when they closed it in two thousand thirteen they hadn't even looked at this huge change that google had just made six months before. Let's say the ftc had considered that or they did think about the importance of mobile. Search back then differently and did say. Hey there too big. They are abusing monopoly powers and they did take action against google. How do you think that could have changed where we are today. I think the world the technology world certainly be very different today as i said the ftc. We're not the only people who are looking at this. Europeans also electic google and they ended up finding the company. Something in the room of nine billion dollars for various things that They found to be any competitive. The differences european regulators can't do something like break up google google's on american company us regulators. If they had done something would have had that option. And that's why there's so much discussion now about whether they should break up google because it's power now is exponentially larger than it was back in two thousand thirteen. Nyland big so much for talking with me. Thank you also. Today representative deb holland has won senate confirmation to lead the interior department becoming the first native american cabinet member in. Us cre- the progressive democrat had faced stiff opposition from republicans who feel her anti fossil fuel activism will hurt their state economies as. She helps to develop president. Joe biden's ambitious. Climate change strategy but senators ended up voting in her favor yesterday. Fifty one to forty as head of the interior department holland will oversee the agency that manages twenty percent of us land in nearly a quarter of the nation's oil and gas production and the faa is planning to extend its zero tolerance policy toward unruly passengers as soon as this week. That's according to sources familiar with the plan. Spoke with lawmakers unions and industry officials have been asking the faa to extend the policy which was adopted in january in the wake of the riots at the capitol and was slated to end on march thirtieth. The policy allows for strict penalties and fines of up to thirty five thousand dollars for any passenger who refuses to wear a mask on a plane or who disrupts a flight with threatening or violent behavior. It's unclear when the new policy will subscribe to politico dispatch. Wherever you get your podcasts and if you like what you're hearing and want to help us out tell a friend to check out the show and leave us a rating and review and your favorite podcast app. I'm jeremy siegel. Thanks for listening. J. p. morgan chase made an additional thirty billion dollar commitment to help advance racial equity especially for black and latinx ex communities in the us over the next five years. The company will help address some of the main drivers of the racial wealth. Divide focusing on promoting and expanding affordable housing and home ownership growing black and latinx excellent businesses improving financial health and access to banking and building a more diverse and inclusive workforce internally. Learn more at j. p. morgan chase dot com slash path forward.