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Full Episode: Thursday, January 17, 2019
Are you hiring with indeed you can post a job in minutes set up screener questions than zero in on your shortlist of qualified candidates using an online dashboard get started today at indeed dot com slash podcast. That's indeed dot com slash podcast. Is Nightline tonight. I wanted him to know that I'm stronger than what he thinks. I am a team comes face to face with the teacher who took her from the classroom to captivity. He called me as wife sometimes. And he said that we were going to get married and that was going to live with him until I died dragging her country for sex the thirty eight day search for the teen. And now her emotional message for him on his day of reckoning was life in the slow lane. This spanking success stunts and antics at a frame by frame speed. How this super slow show became a quick moneymaker and the big birthday planned for the nation's golden girls. Good evening. Elizabeth Thomas, the Tennessee teenager who is Lord out of her classroom and by teacher, sparking a nationwide manhunt. Now finally getting to go face to face in court with the man who held her captive as he faces prison time, she's trying to piece her life back together. And here's ABC's Eva pilgrim can say all day long, the devil made him do it. But he is the devil. It has been a long journey for Lisbon Thomas to come to grips with what a teacher a mentor did to her. But yesterday in a courtroom the latest chapter closed when she faced the man who took her fifty two year old tad comments as he pled guilty to taking a minor across state lines for sex in a case that gripped the country new tonight fifteen year old Elizabeth Thoman faithfully reported two year old girl and fifty year old man to center of a nationwide amber alert it all started in the spring of twenty seventeen in the small. Town of coca Tennessee, a farming community of about five thousand Ted Cummins is a popular teacher at the high school. He was the cool teacher. Everybody loved him. He was everyone's friend. Everyone's mentor helped so many people through so many things then fifteen year old. Elizabeth Thomas is just making the transition from home school to public school. She says comments at the time fifty and married with two daughters takes her under his wing as me a bible. It was just something from him that kindness even extending outside the classroom taking Elizabeth to church on Sundays with his wife. Did you ever think anything of their interactions together? It was like a father daughter relationship is the way I saw it too. So why he would explain it? In fact, I caught her Arthur daughter sometime Elizabeth's family attorney thinks Covent recognized. She was a vulnerable target, specifically grooming this child. Child for various specific purpose? And that was a relationship. He chose the girl that was clearly having issues because she went to him for quote, unquote counseling. He was the perfect victim to began communicating on Instagram Cummins, posting your all my heart ever talks about it was love at first sight at last site. Then there's Elizabeth's response. I look forward to going to school just to see you. I love you most of them from him would be sexual text. He would sexually text you. Yes. Then alone with Elizabeth in his classroom. She says covens goes a step further. And then next thing, I know he said you look pretty nice naked. Whenever you I kissed me. That was whenever I realized this is getting too far a student reported seeing Elizabeth Thomas kissing tad comments inside of his classroom. This student was very disturbed by what she saw. And she immediately went to report it school officials the school investigates. Elizabeth denies everything. Children spent the majority of their day with their teachers in school. And so that power dynamic almost takes the place of the parent child relationship. What child is going to speak out against the person that is in control of the majority of their lives. The school suspense comments were inappropriate conduct. With Elizabeth over the following weeks. Cummins continues reaching out to her over social media and hatches a plan to run off with her telling her he'll hurt himself or someone else if she doesn't go along so on the morning of March thirteenth. She leaves her home seen here in this Valence video obtained by ABC news at eight thirty two AM come and stops at a local gas station and fills up his take. And then picks Elizabeth up outta shoney's restaurant face at a gun in the middle console. And I know that wasn't getting out of the car, and you. You knew that wasn't getting out of this by that evening, Elizabeth's father reports her missing a man on for comments is officially underway. TBI issued an amber alert for Mary, Catherine. Elizabeth thomas. Distraught. Family makes a desperate cry for her say for turn. We really miss you. I miss you. Please please come home Kevin's wife, Jill making an emotional plea for his return had this is not you. This is not who you are. We can help you get through for thirty eight days. He drags Elizabeth on a cross country trek through nine states of aiding Thorndike's, they make off off a bridge and his phone as well that way, the police can track us, and then he disconnected the GPS by screwdriver in the glove compartment, and he broke off the front, and then he unhooked three DO. Kidnapping. Stay in the car with him at all times. She's as Cummins made or sleep without clothes on hiding them from her and watching her every move. He calls me, his wife sometimes, and he said that we were going to get married and that was going to live with him until I died. As days turn into weeks Cummins to science to take his victim south of the border by kayak. So he got a kayak and he wanted to kayak all the way to Panama all at what point did, you decide? Okay. This is about idea turn around whenever one wave nearly killed us like took us over. Once we finally got out of it. I was so happy. Come and then sets his sights on a remote part of northern California. The two are offered temporary shelter from local resident Griffin. Berry comments makes up a story about why he came to California. Do we have a house fire say like losses job? They're trying to start a new life. I hope you put them in the cabin. But berry senses, something strange with the girl. That girl talk, you know, to me earlier. Varies. Neighbors shows them Elizabeth amber alert us off of the guy. I was like definitely then what did you guys decide to do? Call the police thorns race to the area. And a swat team surrounds the cabin were coming and Elizabeth are saying the day that the police show up. I was the best day of my life. Less than twenty four hours later. Elizabeth flies home to Tennessee starting journey of healing. And understanding, I know he's a bad, man. And by myself a lot. But now, I know that he's at fault. He himself made him do it. It is extremely common for victims, especially child victims of sexual assault sexual predation to blame themselves. I think it is one of the reasons why sexual assault is the most under reported crime in our country. It's because people not only believe that they will not be believed. They blame themselves for it. Even occurring in the first place. Elizabeth facing comments in court yesterday with a powerful message for her captor saying part, you preyed upon a vulnerable girl and robbed her childhood for the last two years. I've been. Picking myself up piece by piece and proving to myself that I am much much stronger than you convinced me, I was your choices destroyed not just my family, but also yours Elizabeth asked the judge to send its comments to thirty eight years in prison one for every day. He kept her ultimately the judge decided on twenty years he will have to spend the majority of the twenty years in prison. He will have to register as a sex offender for the rest of his life. And he will never be able to be alone with a child again, Elizabeth is focusing on what she can moving on. What are your dreams for your life to have a family and protect them? Make them have a better life, a stronger person than I was and I'm not afraid. Thanks, Steve pilgrim next here. We're going to switch gears entirely the low down on this slowdown. Is it still a struggle to get that good night's sleep? Then maybe it's time to try the purple mattress. It's made out of new material that makes it firm and soft. So it keeps everything supported while. Still feeling really comfortable. Try now with a one hundred night risk-free trial along with free shipping and returns. And if you order one, you'll get a free purple pillow with the purchase of a mattress just text Nightline two four seven four seven four seven the only way to get this spree pillow is detects Nightline two four seven four seven four seven. Message and data rates may apply when it comes to hiring. You don't have time to waste you need help getting to your shortlist of qualified candidates fast. That's why you need indeed dot com. Get started today at indeed dot com slash podcast. That's indeed dot com slash podcast. To the internet superstar operating at a glacial pace, the slow MO guys are quickly gaining traction fusing science and tech in their mesmerizing videos. Here's ABC's auction. Sing. Well, I think I'm gonna just smash studies for this giant war lunacy. Weapons three. This isn't exactly what I signed up for. With smashing things. Is what these guys do for a living. Meet the slow MO guys Gavin free and Dan grucci. Famous for making unbelievably slow motion videos of pretty much anything you can think of what about you guys has gotten so many people to latch on we fill up stuff. This is like, oh, you see that every day. But you've never seen it this slurp. From smashing jello with a tennis racket. Jumping on mouse trap covered trampoline. They're capturing movements frame by frame showing viewers footage otherwise impossible to see with the naked. They're often ridiculous stunts racking up nearly two billion views and over eleven million subscribers on YouTube like jackass, but. The duo has been around since the beginning of YouTube and nowadays there full blown celebrities making big bucks. Ever everything. This is going to get this big. There's no chance that I thought we get to speak because obviously that was seven years ago ish, these would be unheard of numbers tucked away into smog Araj in Austin, Texas, the slow headquarters, so this is this is the prop. Garret this is where the magic comes from endless props in odds and ends stuff that would normally be collecting dust absolute gold for the slow MO guys this is actually full of about five thousand miles shop. Oh my God. This is the thousand mouse traps that you said so this is the souls we've used for a couple of bits and bobs. This is the six foot balloon that Dan actually sat in and it exploded on him. That's my favorite pro that one. This guy was the original bull thrown in my head. It was one of the first videos we ever released still has the original Walter. It all started back in London to blow doing ordinary teenager things. Good friends when we what's the same supermarket, and we have a video game. Be I think he was like what's going on? And then from that beat me at halo before. How did you guys start making videos? I would just make videos with different friends, and I saw found that Dan, then I had the best bond film screen. So when it came time to stop the Sliema guys, he was the clear choice and our regretted Evanston. Actually, he's he's with Gavin's access to a rare phantom slow motion camera and Dan's, undeniable, panache on screen, the then teenage duo could film videos unmatched at that time, the guy I worked with he had the only to fence and cameras in the country time, and I realized that was you know, seventeen or eighteen years old with access to this super expensive super camera. And that puts a nice advantage the camera offensive flex for K. You can cost around a hundred and fifty thousand dollars. It shoots so powerfully slow that foaming for just five seconds can result in nineteen hours of footage. Most YouTube is will say, oh, you know, I didn't expect it to no had no idea this would happen. But this was always the intent to actually come well known for doing it's boomed into a major moneymaker. Now almost a decade later. They had their own YouTube original series and get sponsored to produce content. Maybe twenty different companies with and they they basically pay us to make a video coming out to the slow MO guys backyard right now, I've got a base from behind me, some water balloons, some paint cannons a much get the full guys. I a quick wardrobe change. Those are the jackets the lab, coats jackets this. There has been. Yeah. Slugged today's warm up a lousy mouse trap or so I thought well, you're gonna do when you're ready. Yeah. Is hitting Mel with the thing that truce Lhamo guys fashion. We had a little gooder it. Let's look it. This. I'm a little bit shook. Should be. Make you do this. And also if you think about the way ten. Chicken three two one. I wanna see we'll take a look, let's take a look. Trying to smile and non Celtic coughing. There. It is. Oh, see essentially still a masterpiece, very foster even. My fingers crushed. But not my spirit. Now, it's time to really dive it right now, I'm getting suited. They haven't told me exactly what's happening to me yet. Follies some paint. I'm ready. You ready? That was actually a lot more than I was expecting really definitely worked. Terrible really bad. I cannot wait to see what this looks like slow MO. Gone really blood your way there. Seve done is always this chick. Taking. The ones. Now that I'm full Grinch. They're going to help me take a quick bath. I think I'm gonna just smash the face of this giant wool blend and see what happens. What really do it slow MO guys down now to wash? Leads to wash ready. Great. A cool next one. This want to be a slush getting hit three to what? Why? Kinda surprised that don't have a black guy. But right now, the goal is to get one of the balloons to splash so Dan's inside, he's about to grab a needle from you to hold up. In nice and secure. Okay. Three to one. Call now spray on the face to mazing. And you've got the green literally. Literally washing away. Does it get old? It's always fun hand people in the face of balloons, hitting hitting people you've just met for the first time in the day in the face of stuff is done. I think he gets is really cool to think that you can make a living doing the most bizarre stuff. Like this wasn't a job several years to one. And we're done. If you haven't volunteered for it would be almost believing. For Nightline all Marshon sing. And finally here tonight. We celebrate a living legend. America's golden girl, tackles another birthday. What is your deal come on? Then you've been riding meal day, Betty white ninety seven years young tonight. We're told she's playing poker with the same friends. She's been dealing with for decades. And she is somebody who's been making the best of a very good hand. We wanna thank you for watching Nightline. We've got a full deck so to speak of episodes streaming over on Hulu, thanks again for watching and good night. Are you hiring with indeed you can post a job in minutes set up screener questions than zero in on your shortlist of qualified candidates using an online dashboard get started today at indeed dot com slash podcast. That's indeed dot com slash podcast.
Aired 2 months ago 21:27
Full Episode: Wednesday, November 21, 2018
Tonight. Several developing stories as we come on the travel crush more than fifty million Americans on the road and in the skies this thanksgiving the deadly rush hour collision the military opening up restricted airspace to commercial flights as an Arctic blast hits on the holiday some wind chill. Temperatures plunging below zero. Also, breaking the mansion murder a couple and their small children killed their house than set on fire. Why the father's brother is now under arrest? Also tonight in a rare move supreme court Justice John Roberts publicly slamming President Trump the immigration ruling behind their fight. Now, the president firing back toddler, desperate escape the dramatic moment. Residents trapped by a raging inferno dropping a child to good Samaritans below hidden deal less than forty eight hours until black Friday and Rebecca Jarvis with the secret ways to save even. More money. Plus, the incredible inside story of a dramatic mountaintop rescue several people their dogs running from the California wildfires the pilot team that blue right into the smoke. This is ABC news tonight with David Neil. And good evening. It's great to have you with us on a busy Wednesday night. I'm Tom yomas in for David. And we begin tonight with the record cold for thanksgiving as record travel for the holiday hits. It's peak. Tens of millions of Americans now on the move highways jammed at this hour from New England to Chicago Dallas to the San Francisco Oakland bay bridge and take a close look at this. This is from Chicago tonight traffic bumper to bumper on the highways and earlier a deadly start to the morning rush. At least one person killed and six hurt in a fiery crash on the Brooklyn Bridge and the nation's airports with their hands full this terminal packed in Denver the airline industry predicting thirty million will fly over the things giving break ABC's. Eva pilgrim, leads us off tonight. The thanksgiving rush grinding to a halt in New York. One person is dead and six injured after this fiery crash on the Brooklyn Bridge cut off a major travel route during the morning commute. But that wasn't the only traffic headache, all my this taxi cab in the nearby Brooklyn battery tunnel engulfed in flames smoking out visibility for drivers. Even see a rough start to what could be the most traveled thanksgiving in over a decade. A record thirty million hitting the skies. All the people that don't know how to travel are here today. It's honestly kind of hectic lost in Chicago Denver Atlanta's seeing a crush of travelers this morning in Pittsburgh lines at a standstill. We thought it was going to be faster, but they had a trick for us. We're still waiting TSA deploying an additional twelve hundred officers and eighty canine units to handle the extra flux of passengers airlines also getting help from the military as they've opened up restricted airspace to allow for more direct routes along the east coast are David curly on the tarmac at Reagan national airport. The airlines of added one hundred fifty eight thousand cease to try and deal with what could be nearly Remillard flyers today. The best news for the airlines that the weather doesn't look like it's going to hamper the efforts for everybody to get home for the holidays. But no, travelers will be hitting the roads more than forty eight million traffic in Chicago this afternoon slow to a crawl fueling that traffic. Thawing gas prices the national average now to sixty when gas prices plunging right before the holiday, many experts say there are a lot of people waiting to the last minute to decide to travel if you are one of those people tomorrow is the best day for the lightest traffic until void the gridlock. Tom even pilgrim has some strong weather moving in there. And this thanksgiving millions are bracing for an Arctic blast and record cold in the northeast snow and wind blowing across Syracuse Newark. Take a look at that right there. Temperatures plunging overnight from DC to Philly New York to Boston wind chills falling below zero in some areas and the west bracing for three days of rain ABC chief meteorologist ginger Zee is truck it all tonight. She's along the George Washington Bridge and gender. You've already felt some weather tonight. We did. We just saw squall come through here, Tom with grapple and other mixed precipitation. This is what's happening. Just northwest of us by about one hundred and thirty miles Binghamton New York there wind chill four. So the front is there, and you can see it on the map. It is pushing with some snow squalls in the lead of the lake some lake effect. Snow just a couple of inches. All you need to get the roads covered and then tomorrow morning when we dry out you also are chilled to your bone. It'll feel like six at the Macy's parade zero for Meriden Connecticut nine below Burlington, Vermont which could go for their coldest thanksgiving on record so to could providence. So, you know, the headline here is cold, but it is sunshine and decent weather really back to the west sixty Denver and Kansas City pockets of rain that could help the smoke in the west, Tom or ginger Zee for tonight ginger thank you now to tonight's other headlines. Chilling new details in the mansion deaths in New Jersey, prosecutors revealing how a father mother and their two children were killed their house than set on fire. The father's broke. Other now under arrest and accused of torching his own home. Here's ABC's GIO Benitez tonight. Authorities in New Jersey say a nightmare unfolded inside this burning mention the killing of an entire family followed by Orson. This is one of the most heinous cases that I think they have ever investigated that we have ever seen police recovering the body of fifty year old Keith Caneiro Tuesday outside his home with multiple gunshot wounds offering. Inside the bodies of his wife, Jennifer, and who they believed to be their children a source telling ABC news, investigators suspect all three were stabbed. Unfortunately, sadly, each of these individuals were the victims of homicidal violence at some point prior to win the fire was set. It turns out earlier in the day ten miles away. The home of the victim's brother was also burning today. Police charging that brother Paul Caneiro with aggravated arson of his own home saying he doused it with gasoline. Then set it on fire while his wife and two daughters were inside. No one was injured. Police say the two fires are related, but they have not called canal a suspect in the death of his brother and family. The two brothers. Ran a tech company together the victim Keith Canario was the CEO and GIO Benitez joins us live now from colts, neck, New Jersey, where that family was killed GIO so many questions in this case. That brother will be in court next week. He will tell him. He's facing those arsenal charges. Meanwhile, police here say that there is no threat to public safety. They call what happened to that family a targeted attack? Tom GIO Benitez with that disturbing story. Just before the holiday. All right. Shia. Thank you. We turn to politics now. President Trump interrupting thanksgiving at more law go with the new and unexpected war of words with supreme court. Chief Justice John Roberts in a rare. Rebuke Justice Roberts pushing back against the president for blasting a federal judge as a quote above judge after ruling against his migrant asylum policy, President Trump now doubling down on his attack. Here's ABC's senior White House correspondent Cecilia Vega tonight in extrordinary review of the president from the supreme court's chief Justice it came after President Trump lashed out at an Obama appointed judge from the ninth circuit court of appeals who temporarily blocked his plan to crack down on a Silom seekers. While you go to the nicer. Circuit. And it's a disgrace. And I'm going to put in a major complaint because you cannot win. If you're us a case in the ninth circuit, this was an Obama judge. And I'll tell you what it's not gonna happen like this anymore that triggered a rare reprimand from chief Justice John Roberts. He wrote. We do not have Obama judges or Trump judges Bush judges or Clinton judges what we have is an extraordinary group of dedicated judges doing their level best to do equal right to those appearing before them and on this thanksgiving eve, he added that independent judiciary is something we should all be thankful for late today. President Trump fired right back tweeting. Sorry, chief Justice John Roberts. But you do indeed have Obama judges, and they have a much different point of view than the people who are charged with the safety of our country. These rulings are making our country unsafe very dangerous and unwise, President Trump says he'll appeal his asylum plan all the way to the. Supreme court as for those fifty eight hundred troops deployed to the border. This thanksgiving, the president told ABC's Karen Travers, don't worry about the thanksgiving, these tough people. They know what they're doing. They're great. And they've done a great job. You're so worried about the thanksgiving holiday for that. They are so proud to be representing our country on the border. All right. Cecilia Vega joins us now from the White House and Cecilia President Trump taking heat on another front tonight. His unwavering support of Saudi Arabia after the murder of journalists Jamal kashogi the president saying maybe the Saudi Saudi Crown prince knew about it. Maybe he didn't. And today he made a point of praising the Saudis yet, Tom this one on Twitter when he said that oil prices are getting lower. Thank you to Saudi Arabia. Now, I've got to say Saudi Arabia's far from the only reason for these declining oil prices, but like other president told me yesterday when I asked him why he seems to be siding with the Saudis over his own intelligence community in the death of Jamaica Shoghi, he said this is about the economy at America. First. Tom Cecilia Vega for us tonight. Cecilia thank you. We turn out to an incredible moment. Caught on camera a nerve wracking rescue in Dallas an apartment building in flames. And a moment of sheer desperation take a look at this. Neighbors rushing a help watching as a toddler is dropped from a third floor window into their arms. Police going door to door to get everyone out. Here's ABC's Linsey Davis. Tonight. Police body camera video shows the frantic moments at this Dallas apartment complex as police and residents race to help. Claims shoot through the roof. One mother forced to toss her baby out of a third floor window begging for someone below to catch her little boy safely caught in the arms of a stranger of may would occur curl to like football officials say in all six people had to jump in order to escape some pulled a mattress from downstairs apartment to cushion there falls. There was no way that those citizens were gonna get out of that apartment complex except for out of those windows. The fire broke out around seven o'clock this morning, according to Dallas fire and rescue to residents and a firefighter were taken to the hospital with non-life threatening injuries. Thank god. That those residents were there, and they were so willing to help Tom this time the cause of the fire remains unknown officials say that the building is too unstable for investigators to enter Tom an incredible rescue nonetheless. All right Lindsey. Thank you next tonight. The new headline for the attorney who took on the president Michel Noddy, the outspoken lawyer accused of domestic violence bind ex-girlfriend prosecutors in Los Angeles today making a major decision in that case, here's ABC's Qena Whitworth tonight, Los Angeles, prosecutors declining to charge. Embattled attorney Michael naughty with a felony after his ex girlfriend. Actress Morelli Minucci says he attacked her last week. According to court documents, the twenty four year old says the violent encounter started inside their apartment with an argument over money. She claims avenue culture, quote, ungrateful expletive, expletive and began forcefully hitting her in the face with pillows Manute who filed a restraining order against of Nadi states of Nadi, then grabbed my right arm and dragged me out of bed and into the public hallway. She says she was only wearing underwear and a t shirt, she says these photos of bruises on her back and leg are proof of ninety vehemently denying the accusations. I have never struck a woman, I never will strike a woman ABC news obtaining, this letter addressed LAPD detectives from avenues attorney telling his side of the story that Minucci was allegedly upset because he was no longer ping her bills that she was allegedly acting irrational because she was taking multiple medications and on the night of the altercation when asked by security guard, she did not deny that she had been drinking that night. After today's announcement from DA avenue ATI said in a statement. I have maintained my innocence since the moment of my arrest, although avenue is not facing a felony charge. LA city. Prosecutors could still file a misdemeanor charge against him. And tonight Manila's attorney saying they are confident that chargeable. Hold Tom Kaine a Whitworth with the new developments tonight Qena, thank you. And we move on to unfinished business in the midterm elections. The Senate showdown in Mississippi the runoff election set for this coming Tuesday, Republican Cindy, Hyde Smith under fire during last night's debate apologizing to quote, anyone who was offended when she made a remark some called racist about a public hanging that apology doing little to silence critics including some of our biggest donors. Here's ABC's Mary Bruce with just days to go before the special election. Mississippi Republican senators Cindy, Hyde Smith is now expressing some regret after a string of racially charged. Controversies the latest these pictures from two thousand fourteen Hyde Smith in a confederate cap posing. In the home in library of confederate president Jefferson Davis her caption Mississippi history at its best and earlier this month, Hyde Smith was joking with a supporter about public hanging. Initially. She dug in saying in a statement any attempt to turn into a negative connotation is ridiculous. Are you familiar Mississippi's history? Lynchings put out a statement yesterday. And that's all I'm going to say about it. One out of statement yesterday. And we stand by the statement, and that's all I'm going to say about it. But now a week later and with top donors, WalMart, AT and T and Pfizer withdrawing their support and asking for their money back Hyde Smith is offering some apology for anyone that was fended for my by my comments. I certainly apologize at a debate. Hyde Smith also pointed a finger at her opponent democrat, Mike Espy, who's African American. This comment was twisted. And it was turned into a weapon to be used to get SP fired right back, what's in your heart. But we all know what mouth. Given us state of no they're black guy that we don't need. And Mary choice from Capitol Hill and Mary Cindy height. Smith getting a big Goethe confidence from President Trump yet on the president has been quick to defend Hyde. Smith sanctions doing fantastic job. And that it's a shame. She has to go through all this. The president will be making the case for her on Monday. When he heads down to Mississippi Tom that election on Tuesday, right Mary. Thank you. There's still much more ahead on world news tonight this Wednesday. The American missionary killed trying to visit a remote island inhabited by a tribe that has little contact civilization when they allegedly turned on him. The baggage handler take a close, look and bad behavior caught on camera tossing boxes from the plane tonight, the airline responding and Hugh comes black Friday. We've got the tips to save money and avoid the holiday shopping crush stay with us. Do you spend the night tossing and turning are you dealing with stiff neck and back for months if you're struggling to get a good night's sleep? You've gotta try purple mattress. The purple mattress will probably feel different than anything you've ever experienced because it uses a new material developed by an actual rocket scientist, purple mattress feels very unique because it's both firm and soft so keeps everything supported while still feeling really comfortable. Plus, it's breathable. So it sleeps cool, dry your purple mattress with one hundred night risk free trial. And if you're not fully satisfied, you can return it for a full refund purple mattresses backed by ten year warranty, free shipping and returns are going to love purple. And right now, our listeners will get a free purple pillow with the purchase of a mattress. Just text W N t two four seven four seven four seven the only way to get this free pillow is detects W N t two four seven. Four seven four seven. Message and data rates may apply. Next tonight. Black Friday is fest approaching and from toys to TV's, Rebecca Jarvis with the secrets to save you more money tonight countdown to thanksgiving, which also means just hours away from doorbuster deals. Shoppers already lighting up, but you may not have to twenty teen. It's all about the online tool Busta. You don't have to get up and get out of the house. Really? You just have to get up. Staying UP Jays and show before doing brightness TV on your wishlist thanksgiving in black Friday are your best bets for budget TV's. But if you're looking for a mid range or high end variety, it may be better to hold out till cyber Monday with toys R us now shuttered target WalMart and Amazon trying to fill the void the weekend before Christmas. The toys will be slashed prices, finally, Tom if you are out braving, those crowds, a little kindness goes a long way. Now's the time to smile and negotiate many retailers offer hidden discounts and promotions. But you have to ask Tom if you don't ask you don't get Rebecca thank you now index and the manhunt underway after a deadly highway incident. In tennessee. Fifty four year old Joe Shelton was killed when a huge chunk of concrete rain down on his car from an overpass smashing through his windshield and causing him to crash into a truck in downtown Nashville of forties. Believe it was intentionally thrown. An American missionary has been killed by a remote tribe off the coast of India and the bay of Bengal Twenty-seven-year-old, Jon Allen Chao died on north sentinel island home to a try that has Lou contact with other humans and is known to defend themselves using Boeing aero of thirties. Have not located his body back here in the states. A baggage handler in trouble for mistreating property, take a look a passenger on board. A southwest flight that had just landed in Phoenix, filming the employees as he tosses boxes from the conveyor belt, one of those boxes. Appearing to read live tropical fish southwest calling the video, quote, deeply disturbing and said the baggage handler will be retrained and oak Christmas, tree crews in Youngstown, Ohio, cutting down this Christmas tree for the downtown square. When take. Look this snap the tree breaking into the Christmas celebration will have to wait until after thanksgiving finally tonight America strong. The firefighters flying head on into the smoke and flames in California. Here's ABC's matchup. Pair pilots flying bright into that thunderhead of smoke. LA fire department pilots, Dave Nordquist and Joel Smith had been battling the Wolsey fire near Los Angeles. Earlier this month part of swarm of pilots fighting fires from the air. Those guys are in area they need to get out quick out when they got the call. All right. This is a rapidly becoming very ugly is the risk was huge. But the alternative there is really nowhere to run. Nowhere to go for these people. God blessed we're in the right place at the right time. They started running low on fuel Joel Smith finally John's back with three survivors to dogs. We probably had another five minutes to get the people out before burned over the top. There's one dog ear English. But. Relapse? We're we're getting them on board with the pooch finally pushed on board you'll jumps back in. They lift on fires. We ring up your clear now, a hero pilots. Never even got the names of their passengers. There's no time that's enough today. Let me brother drop them off. Right back into that fire. Matt gunman ABC news, Los Angeles. So tonight, we salute those pilots were being America strong. And we thank Matt for that report. We thank you for watching. I'm Tom yomas. We hope to see you right back here. Tomorrow for David and all of us here. Have a great thanksgiving. Goodnight have a dream. But don't know where to begin didn't want limited looking for wisdom for women who've already been there, you will constantly be given the opportunity to lose yourself. Welcome to ABC's. No limits. I'm your host, Rebecca Jarvis. And each week. We're talking to the game changing women about success lessons learned along the way. And of course, the worst advice really thought about this worst advice ever, you can hear new episodes of no limits every week on apple podcasts or your favorite podcast app.
World News Tonight with David Muir
Aired 2 months ago 76:54
The Away Team - 061
Welcome. Fred to the how to heretic. I'm and I'm Dan, I'm Doug. And this is your users guide to life on the outside. That's right. Leaving religion is the first step into a larger better world. It can also be a scary world things work differently now never fear. That's why we're here. We're your audio Guls and with help from good, friends and experts in all sorts of fields. They're going to share the stories and seek the knowledge to build a great life. After all, you only get one that we know of better make the most of it. Let us proceed. See? Well. Here. We are the the the mighty three and wherever you go. There. You are. And there you are here we are. So that established we are ready to do another show. So I believe that uncle Doug is going to talk about how shoop purchases can affect your survive a great day for the Nike brand, abject. Yes. Indeed. Yeah. And then Dan, you've got an interesting and maybe seasonal segment. I think yeah, we're gonna we're gonna we're going to delve into the holidays. It's a you know it. Tis the season. The holidays are always very special here at the how to heretic up some stuffing, or whatever it is people. Do enjoy the food stuffs of the the people that welcomed us, and we kind leaks terminent. That's right. The buckles in your shoes, and then your hat and get ready, then we're going to have a nice kind of how to conversation continuing on one. We already had about how things change over time. Yeah. We we've got a lovely guest. Professor. Nathan is gonna come in and help us out. And we're gonna talk about a monkeys. Oil. And there you go and just one last time we wanna make sure we announced that there are still a few days if you'd like to be so kind as to donate to modest needs. That's right. This vulgarity for charity, there's still a few days for us. You listening. You know, this this episode is going to drop for our patrons on on Monday nineteen which gives them plenty of time. And for the rest of you on Wednesday. If you listen to this anytime after that Wednesday, the twenty first is the cutoff date, so you you're too late. Right. So if you if you make sure to make that donation of fifty dollars or more to modest needs before midnight eastern time on November twenty first and then Email the receipt from that along with whom you would like to have roasted by whomever to vote Garrity for charity at g mail dot com. That's right. And and somebody will get to it somebody. This is not our thing where we're helping out with it. But. But yeah, the guys that at skating atheist and Cognis are are are great. And they're they do this mostly yearly now, and and we were happy to help. I'm great news. They have met their matching grant goal. We have all together contributed to all your your gender, your generosity of contribute to more than fifty thousand dollars being raised to keep it going. Keep it going. We'll you know, we'll set a record next year. They cannot hope to surpass and with that said, let us do a show move an hour. Mark. Hello. How many pairs Nike's? Do you have? You know, what's crazy for a homosexual? I have very few pairs of shoes. Well, that's true. You're not a shoe guy. Not a shoe guy. I your bare barefoot in the studio right now. No, I would not be barefoot in the studio because I love you too. Not make you endure what you would see with boots off. But in sightly, but I don't own a single pair of Nikes because I wanna keep my balls, and I want to stay alive. All right. Well, uncle dugs gonna tell us about some some fashion victims. Yeah. Well, you know, what of Nike's most unfortunate sponsors? Until the whole cabinet. Well, just as we go to record today today. Literally today is the fortieth anniversary of Jonestown is it really really is nineteen seventy eight. Jim Jones and given that we've already talked about that any of our guy in east friends out there. You're welcome joy in good health. So I thought we talk about another much much smaller mass suicide today, let's meet the heavens Gators. Woo. Heaven's Gate was emphasis on was an American UFO religious millenarian cult one of the first to be referred to as a cybercult. Incorporation of the burgeoning internet into their operations. It's a series of tubes. Exactly. It was founded in nineteen seventy four in San Diego by Marshall Applewhite and Bonnie nettles Mr. Applewhite was born in nineteen thirty one in Texas. And was the son of a Presbyterian minister? Okay. So he knew the biz. Yeah. He did. That's never a story that ends. Well. Exactly he went on to serve in the army, and then was fired from the university of Saint Thomas in Houston for an alleged relationship with male student. Oh, yeah. Hey, oh, it's getting juicy Bonnie nettles was born in Houston in nineteen twenty seven to a Baptist family. So also not gonna end. Well, right. She became a nurse and married in nineteen forty nine and subsequently had four children. Her marriage began to fray in nineteen seventy two when she started hearing instructions from nineteenth century monk named brother Francis. Those are always the best time for marriage. So she was a ham radio operator. Yeah. Exactly. She started to attend in ho seances. And in fact, her meeting with Applewhite was apparently foretold by a fortune teller. Oh, yeah. So you're going to meet a guy. Probably don't listen to his all his last instruction. Well, in nineteen eighty three she had an I removed due to cancer and was told that at that point that the cancer spread throughout her entire body. However, part of her belief system was that she could not die. Although apparently, she could decay and then she died in nineteen eighty five. Oh well. Applewhite nettles met at a psychiatric hospital where nettles worked and Applewhite was a patient. No red flags there. We're we're we're in fine footing the to begin creating what would become Heaven's Gate, mostly from the King James bible, my favorite and the science fiction writings of Robert Heinlein, Arthur C Clarke, they began to refer to themselves as do ddo and tie Doan t I had to look at the pronunciation. Okay, DO and TI that's referred to each other. And then so's dough. And who's t he's dough? She's thai. Okay. And sometimes they referred themselves as the two part of their belief system is that they were the two witnesses referred to in the book of revelation now. I will not recap that book or talk more about it because it is time of late. Please don't ever if listeners like to dive deep into that book, you can either listen back to episodes fifty eight and sixty or closure or shut your EDNA garage door. We'll do or run into a cave and ask it to collapse. It can ask a question. So she was working at the psychiatric hospital, and he was. Was he there voluntarily pays the details about why he was there, pretty sketchy? Okay. It had to do with that dismissal from the university of Houston university in Houston, but he was a patient at the hospital while she was working on. That's when they met. So we don't know under what circumstances he entered on his feet or in a bag wreck. Exactly diagnosis was called crazy. Yeah. Pretty much the religion began to morph into a UFO Colt claiming among other things that God, and Jesus and Satan were all advanced aliens, possessing spacecraft time travel, telepathy, and increased longevity Mormons kind of Doug, you're saying Satan and spaceship precisely I'm down. Everything just got cooler song from the Charlie Daniels band, Satan had a spaceship, it was the precursor to the devil went down to Georgia like it as a big devil head shaped thing kind of bighorns. Yeah. So Satan's race known as Luciferians. Yeah. Used holograms to fake miracles and endeavored to trick mankind into not believing in God that is tricky. Can you use a hologram? Yeah. Their belief system which evolved over the two and a half decades, preach that through denying oneself of mammalian characteristics. Such as family, friends, sexuality, individuality jobs, money and possessions, one could achieve the evolutionary level above human or tayla. Okay. So basically give up everything that makes living worthwhile. Yep. And you'll be better. Guess how that's going to end unless you're Applewhite's dedication to the cause he and seven other male members of the group, underwent voluntary castration in Mexico. So he believed it. I guess I mean, I've had some crazy times in Mexico. Came back with all the bits. Just that face tattoo. Yeah. Well, it was worth it mystery. The Colt went through several names during its time, including the human individual metamorphosis for him higher source, and the total overcomes, for example, the total overcome so. They failed television. Salvin Salvin crimes and walking dogs. They took to putting ODI after names like Marquis, Dante or Dougie. Okay. That was their thing Dougie dog. That sounds great. Hasn't mean anything not that? I could find OD why ODI wife. Yeah. So like they had a guy named Todd. He was taught at what if your name is melody militant mellow God. Melody? The the adopted language from star Star Trek referring to themselves as the crew and their bodies vehicles, and they made made most of their money curing websites in the brand new World Wide Web. They were like one of the first that you could go to and say, I've got an eating company, I wanna website, and they would set it up for you. So they they were cultist web developers. Wow. And that's really their main source of income was web development. Well, I mean, it's still a good income for a lot of people. Hey, yeah. It works. Yeah. But I guess you find out it's it's deadly professions. Yeah advised. Don't do it. Don't go into webbed of the followers or crew of Heaven's Gate. Always carried a five dollar Bill. A roll of quarters in their pockets. The five dollar Bill was to pay panhandling tickets, which apparently they got a lot of and the quarters were for phone calls or they could be used to frag Vincent enough Rio. He couldn't keep up a way they would panhandle. So they kept five dollars with them just to to pay off the ticket is that a paneling ticket. That's what it was at the time. Okay. And in California where they ended up so they they travel, you know, they say that good at web develop well that came along when they started in the seventies. There was no web guy. And so they were pretty Tinder at and they traveled across the country. And they didn't really have a source of income panhandling was their main source of income. And then I don't know if once the web development took off they ended up with some major properties. So it must have paid off. And I think the five dollar Bill and the quarters were kind of like a tradition. I think it's just I think the quarters are just about like, you gotta you. It's it's paying the toll to get on Satan, spe they all had all of the ones who ended up popping their clogs had a five dollar Bill and quarters in their pockets. So yes. So it went from get out of jail free to a to a yarmulke religious. Yeah. Okay. Why not why not her? One possible sign that things were headed in an ominous direction in nine hundred sixty cult purchased alien abduction insurance for fifty of its members would pay a from home. Some cells those well from Lloyd's of of Omaha listened Venus. Oh doubt if listeners of the podcast purchase alien abduction insurance. Make your checks out to Doug. Rewind a little bit. So starting with the action. So it covered up it would cover up the covered fifty of their members at covered up to one million dollars, which covered abduction impregnation or death by Elliott's and. And how did they propose one would prove this? I don't know what police report you have. I mean, you've got what you gotta some rogue guy in an insurance agency going. Absolutely. I mean, sure sure I'll cover that. I mean at some point an insurance agent adjusters the same as a bookie, right, right? They'll take bed on anything. Right. Well, and also like, yeah. He knows you're not. Okay. They're all gone. Okay. Prove that it was aliens. And I'll pay out exactly. What drove do DOE to do came next kind of mystery? But the coincidence of do that don't do exactly. The couinty coinciding of the siege at Waco in nineteen Ninety-three. And then the arrival of the HALE Bopp comet in nineteen ninety-five. We're just too delicious to pass up. Oh, never. Let a crisis go to. Yeah. Or a celestial just random occurrence. Yeah. The hilltop comet incidentally was named after the two astronomers discovered in nineteen ninety five and just for context. The last time at pass through the interstellar system was in twenty two twenty two fifteen BC and the next time won't be until forty three seventy seven. So, holy smokes. An infrequent comment. I wanna know who killed themselves. First time. That's that is a that is a big orbit. The you know, it's funny about that is one of the guys who discovered at Alan HALE actually said and this is true quote. We are probably going to have some suicides as a result of this comet why? Yeah. Sure. And and they didn't discover until ninety five. Yeah. Because they saw it coming. So they actually the first ones to actually witness coming into the inter slow system. And he just assume that every time a comet or some group of people kill themselves. So boy what what kind of world do they live in? Astronomers like oh fuck. Well, this is gonna mean, I I have never before known the direct apparently correlation between comets and mental health, right? Yeah. But now, I do not know. Yeah. So in early March of nineteen Ninety-seven dole recorded his last one and a half hour video which you can still watch on YouTube. It's pretty milk toes. Pablum and looks like Mike Pence lived another hundred years, and then started a cult very peculiar. He doesn't. Blink doesn't blink. And he's very skin very scholarly looks. Yeah. Looks ill looks like a skeleton just had skin over if you had to pick a cult leader out of a lineup. It wouldn't need anyone else in the line. No, you you have to say like there is a guy with a pony tail. And another guy you'd have to say like, which one is the UFO cult the Kappa. Warren's right. He'd be like that guy. Definitely you out right in the video is seated in his finest lawn furniture in front of a screen that is that is the video recording of what he's being recorded trying to say is that they did that thing where it's like to MIR's facing each other. So he's kind of stack you stacked up attornal. Yeah. Love via gets pretty dark because they pan over the rest of the audience at one point and kind of let everybody have their moment in the camera, and these are people who would be dead in days. So is this a suicide note? No, it was kind of it was like their last testament. Right. It just it goes on for an hour and a half of him just. But you know, just talking at nausea about nothing. But when you look out over the crowd, and they'd you stop individually people they seem they're weird haircuts. But they seem totally lucid they're laughing. They seem of sound mind pretty creepy. They did a they did it. Correct me if I'm wrong, Doug. I think they. It was a very unisex look like very much. Everybody had a buzz cut or whatever. Yeah. Tracksuits and. Yep. Yeah. But it's you know, they've been pretty appealing design could we all just liberals want future I want? So then on March twenty fourth he and thirty eight of his followers all sporting similar Romulo haircuts for the ladies and buzz cuts for the man, right? They had black sweatpants and Nike decades athlete. Shoes. Death. Kids must have been a great day for Nike. They ingested finna barbital mixed with applesauce and wash it all down with. So they go, and they are great last meal. Just not bad, and then they place plastic bags over their heads to make sure it took right again with the Star Trek motif. They all had armbands that read quote Heaven's Gate away team. And in one of the strangest coincidences of all one of the members that committed suicide was named Thomas Nichols brother of actress Nichelle Nichols. Oh my God later on the original star. Are you serious? Real is the brother her brother, we heard, isn't that crazy? Wow. And so what they did is fifteen members killed themselves first and then the remainder dressed them took the bags off their heads. They were all dressed arrange them took the bags off their heads. And then put a purple over them that you see then fifteen more kill themselves the remainder took care of them. Then six kill themselves in the last three which which incl- include dough to care of them and then DOE killed himself. And the last two or the only ones found with the plastic bags over their heads. Interestingly shit. Yeah. So I mean, it was let me tell you this two days if I'm in a cult and the cult leader is like I'll be the last. I am not going to make. Falling for that shit. Motherfucker? Here's how you convince me that you believe this shit you go exact. Yeah. So okay. What was the total body count thirty nine total? Yeah. Wow. So I, you know, I pay attention to cults, obviously, it's something I'm interested in. And I was you know, full dough adult when this happened. I don't remember the stage that there were people. Yeah. The bodies on the bunk beds. Exactly, how did they have the presence of mind to stay in that position and not just shit themselves. I didn't know that either until all sing or whatever. Or or get desperate and try to get out or whatever. I don't know. How what was it FINA barbital phenobarbital, which is epileptic drug mostly? Yeah. And and vodkas applesauce the phenobarbitol put them to sleep is fixated. Oh, so they died of this fixation most like most of them. So this was. And I mean, this kind of murder. Well, I mean the fifteen they all knew what they were getting into. If you watch the video they're like, we're we're out of here. You know? It's been great, right? They knew they were doing. And then when the fifteen died the remainder, none of them tried to flee. None of them tried to jump out a window as far as we know they watched their compatriots, and then they did the same. And then they got them all arranged up than they sat on the bed and took the phenobarbitol and the applesauce. Yeah. And they seem just calm and serene. It's so strange. I there's no survivors. Well, interestingly a couple more people kill themselves in that were members of the cult. And then a guy in California who was not a member of the cult killed himself and left to note that he was hoping to catch a ride with Heaven's Gate there. They're at least two surviving members of the cult who maintain the website, which is still align why it has not been updated or altered since the event. So it's a great kinda mid-nineties website. It's a oh, yeah. It's capsule right there kind of leaving your dead child's bedroom as. And the on the website. It contains the group's position against suicide wits. Counter intuitively speaks very glowingly about the Masada Massu asides Seventy-three BC. Yeah. It's pretty so it's like the statement against suicide and in their statement against suicide. They talk about how great it was Masada. Right. When the Romans were coming Jews off themselves rather than be subjugated. So yeah, that's kind of it after that, you know, it petered out. So you'd think weird so okay. The suicide is an insane event that took place a staged event with a lot of people who should have done something and could have done some did nothing. And then we laughed a lot about all their bullshit upfront. But what? Okay, what about all the ridiculousness like what made it so magnetic to people that they well, here's the thing. It was a twenty plus year old Colt. And he I don't know how it wound out, but only thirty nine people kill themselves. You know after twenty years reaching the shit. It was it was only open to people over eighteen so kids weren't allowed in the cult interest. Yeah. And at the end of the day only thirty nine people went through with it and of the outside of that group. No one alerted authorities or no and tried to stop it. Which makes it seem like that was kind of it. Like, there wasn't an enormous group of people of which this was a small part. I wonder if that was the ruling class or the upper echelons hard to say, they didn't really have a priesthood. It was super, you know. Lived a life of total poverty and denial of anything pleasant. Well, you had with roller quarters ten bucks over at yet. Fifteen bucks. Yeah. Not total poverty. No. Yeah. You can get yourself out of out of a panhandle by yourself apple sauce. Cocktail Jesus Christ. What should he? Yes. What a strange, and it just that was it. There was no, you know, there's no resurgence of Heaven's Gate. And there's no one to speak of that still follows it. Well, you know, people out there listening today. Maybe it's started up everything old is new again. So that's good luck out there if you can get the website. All right. Thanks, doug. You're welcome. Let's move on moving on. Welcome uncle, Mark. I have long wondered who the first people that figured out that if you trust your hand, you could make it look like a Turkey is. I've always wondered what where that tradition comes from you. And I wish I had. What's that buckles on my shoes laces are for losers? Yeah. The buckles are simpler better it was a better time. And I think Dan's going to prove that to us. You know, it's I am. I am going to do that. By the way there. Yes. It was the elementary school kids on the Mayflower. Who actually I did the Turkey thing. Right. So you know, it was it was MRs Standish is third grade class. Yeah. So those who haven't figured it out. We're going to I'm going to be telling you, the the heroine tale of one groups deep bravery in the face of horrific religious oppression and of their radical acceptance of people of very different from themselves. Just kidding. Religion to tell you about the American pilgrims. Yeah. And I'm going to first start by saying that pilgrims as a word is heavily quotation in my mind because what the fuck look, I don't generally like to back into my Mormon roots? As I prepare these things. But in the style of the horrible, Mormon church talk. I'd like to start with a definition. All right. Yes. Sticks. Dictionary dot com. Look, I've updated it for the modern era. Dictionary dot com defines pilgrim as a person who journeys especially a long distance to some sacred place as an act of religious devotion. I mentioned this only because that word in a way applies to the small group of English dick heads whereabout to discuss. Well. Yeah. I mean, you it seems they stretch that that term pretty far. Yeah. There was nothing sacred. There's no holy site here in the Americas. Not that they were going excuse me. Hole punch him in the chest. Somebody take over rock landed on him. Good lord. Take a little sip. Yeah. Little sip water. There were sacred sites in the Americas when the pilgrims got here. There's just just not they're not sacred to any. They would. There were happy to like smash those into the ground, right? Build a hut or a winter to later try to eat them. Exactly. Oh my God. Okay. So a pilgrim is someone traveling to something not away from something. Which is what are people do? So I'm not going to call them that I'm not gonna call them the pilgrims to our international listeners that is what they are universally. These are you know, some of the early Colin colonizers of of this contents. Call them what they were unwanted immigrants. Well, I'm gonna call them by what they were called for a couple of centuries after the fact because the old comers. Oh. The old covers the old comers. Yeah. Rather than the newcomers rather than the newcomers. I guess they were the newcomers at that time now the old comers. They call them the old comers. Literally until never eighteen twenties. The eighteen twenties is when somebody discovered one of so one of the major accounts of the whole voyage and everything was was by a guy named William Bradford. And and it wasn't until the eighteen twenties when someone noticed Daniel Webster, actually, speaking about dictionary noticed that Bradford had called them. Saints and pilgrims. And so he was like is so Webster started referring to them as the pilgrim fathers, the name stuck right? You'd think Webster would know. How fucking words work. You're not any who. Yeah. Should have done. The Webster's dictionary definition. I went to the first one. Yeah. That was the classic opportunity missed God damnit for those listeners who don't know in in in Mormon culture when you give speech. There's a very specific. Yeah. When you give tartar shirt church, and it's usually a kid who's got to do a three minute to bulk it out. Yep. So stick your Opiyo with joke. And then you do the definition. And then you read the read what was written in the dictionary. After that. Right. Then you're done then. Yeah. Exact- finds faith as. Yeah. Who do any? Yeah. So the old comers. Started out as Brown. It's in a little village called screw be okay, consensual, these people could not have been conscious of how laris all of their names and things weren't. Oh my God. It's delightful old comers of screw the Brown. Yeah. You know, what's funny about it is they were super sex positive, and they would have had a great time with all this. We're going to we're going to go with no pun that. When Brada's for those who don't know were a group of religious separatists who thought that the Puritans were pussies who wouldn't go all the way these are. Yeah, we're going further than the puritan letters just to give you a sense of where we're at separatists at that time. We're fighting the really important fight of trying to make sure that the church of England didn't look too much like the Catholics. Right. That was SU important to them like literally life and death. We're talking about differences. Like, no, I think that control of the church should be centralized. No. I think control of the church should be at the congregational level. Let's murderer. Let's kill each other MO. We're with that. Let's go kill some native Americans. Right. Yeah. Exactly. A little quick history of religion in England in the fifteen hundreds just so that we can sort of fit. Fifteen and sixteen hundreds Henry, the eighth most of you will know this. But Henry the eighth became king and fifty nine at that time England like most of Europe was Catholic and pretty much fine with that until Henry got married, but his wife, Catherine of Aragon, simply refused to make him a son. And he got pitch. He he got Pissy about it and decided he wanted a new wife, but Catholics you don't get to get a new wife. That's right. So he's decided we're not Catholics. No more. Fuck it. I'm making my own get damned religion and declared himself supreme head of it. It's good to be king the king. He, and as you know, he went on to do a lot, more wives. Yes. After Henry died. We had about six years of King Edward the sixth. Who was the why the son of his third wife Jane Seymour? He had a lot of them. And then boom, we got. Got married. The first Queen Mary the I of England Mary was the daughter of Henry and his first wife, Catherine of Aragon as you can imagine. She might not have been totally a giant fan of what her daddy did to her. Mommy. Sure. So, hey, at least she died with her head, right? Yeah. Yeah. I mean there were. Yeah. There were other wives that were less fortunate on that front. So anyway, she was also raised Catholic and she fucking wanted to switch it back. So she switches declared England Catholic again, and that caused a hubbub as you can imagine people didn't like being bounced back and forth between religions I mean, you know, life on the ground is tricky enough. But then you know, when the person at the top of the food Jane says, ha you're all a different religion now. Yeah. And then you're back to the verse religion people were getting. A little which is pretty hilarious because they had all the same books. It's all the same theologically. Speaking me, there are some minor differences that felt super-major to them right divorce being one of them. And like, you know, you know, whether the Eucharist is or is not Jesus, I don't know. I'd you know, there's a lot of like very very small things with the theology is all the same. But we are going to argue endlessly forever picture a small boy being yanked into a pre office. And then pushed back out and yanked back in his religion, change us back and forth. Right. Don't don't actually picture that. Don't don't do what Doug said. It's legal to even think that. Yeah. Exact-? But what's hilarious about all this, you know, jumping many many centuries forward as if you know, anybody in the see if you know, a CSV person now, right? You can't imagine that they would kill anybody for any reason, right? Yeah. Even inconvenience anyone right? They would apologize just for being different religio. So at least we can say the sea has mellowed somewhat right since fifteenth century, right? So anyway, just getting through this again after Queen Mary came Queen Elizabeth who wanted to end all of this the strife all of the back and forth and declared. She she basically declared. The country to be church of England. She had parliament passed the act of uniformity in fifteen fifty eight which basically said everybody has to be V, and she's the boss of it. And that's final. No takes back sees. And if you don't go to church every week and on holidays, you will be fined, and if you out and out rebel, you could be imprisoned or or killed. All right. That is the oppression against which we hear are pilgrim's bravely were quote, unquote, pilgrim fathers, right? Yeah. Exactly. So the big the big beef of the Puritans, and then the Brown seems to have been the church of England. Seems to it was not theological. It was just that in her efforts to make the church palatable to as many people as many of her subjects as possible. Elizabeth included too, much Catholic shit in her church of England. So the purity too much chocolate and the peanut butter. She did and the purity that the Puritans wanted. It wasn't about the alarm purity it was about being pure in. How they practice their religion from the Catholics does they're the worst. Because they're they yucky poop ones. Yes. So that's basically where we start where how we set our seen. So back to our little Crump band of brownish since groupie. Led by their intrepid parson, Richard Clifton. They were so incensed that they were required by law to practice one kind of see instead of another. They decided that they were going to set sail for the distant land of Holland, really. Yeah, they they they ran away to Amsterdam. And then later to another town called what is it called lighten lies something? Yeah. I have it somewhere that old good old. Screw be old news groupie or screw be do as they called. It old scrubbers. Right. The the Dutch laws were a lot more lenient. Yeah. Leiden is the name of the place. The Dutch laws were a lot more lenient toward you know, just can practice. However you want. So they were they were gonna live. They're great right solution. Presented. They are solved. They've got a place. Yeah. And then suddenly their kids started, speaking Dutch, or whatever, and they started like wearing duchy things. Dear wooden shoes. And suddenly it was vitally important to these people that they not lose their English Heritage. Yeah. The sun coming home with with shoes. With no buckles on them was like having your son come home with a nose piercing now or two buckles instead of so so these people were were up tight in every arena of low literally they were just the most intolerably awful people. The you can imagine they cannot be getting they cannot get along with anybody. So it's kind of amazing that that didn't infect the foundation of America at all like weird that would. That would moral intolerance this this is phobic. Yeah. Sort of outsiders. Suck response we dodged real musket ball on that one. Right. So no, they they decided finally that they would set sail for a place that didn't have any real people to speak of just them Brown folk that we can ignore or whatever. So. Yeah. Worshippers dirt worshipers, they went. So they they they made some arrangements with with some people some some some merchants. Yeah. Words, we're not working for just a second there. Well, it's the Dutch. It's the Dutch I was trying I'm translating from from the original original while loon. They they jumped on a ship called the Mayflower and actually another ship the speed, well, dwell which did not speed or well, no, no, it sped right back. It didn't work so full of water. So they yeah. Exactly. They so they went this three masted ship. The Mayflower they aimed themselves directly at the Hudson river and landed at Cape Cod. So you know, what by the standards of the day. All good. Have you sing their guns actually from this by the standards of the day? That was not very good. Okay. That was actually pretty shitty, but they decided to stick. They found that one rock that you mentioned earlier and and called their their area, the Plymouth colony I look I don't need to go through the whole I'm I chose them because it's sort of thanksgiving time here in the Americas. And that's when we celebrate. Question, mark. And I don't wanna go through the whole thing with them. And the Indians there's a lot of Apocrypha in there. There's a lot of all that stuff. I just wanted to point out who these people were I wanted to do this to them because they weren't fleeing religious persecution in the sense of like when I think of religious it was a matter of taste. It was it was just grumpiness, right? And yes, people had been killed for being separatists in that way. Right in large part because. In Henry the between from Henry the eighth to Queen. Elizabeth there had been so much upheaval in England that people were fighting each other over the religion. And Elizabeth I'm not fucking having this, right? Elizabeth wanted just wanted peace. Right. And so her version of it. Maybe not a great idea was just say everybody has to practice this exact way. Yeah. But they all believed the same shit all so it's not like this is, you know, this isn't Buddhists in the Rohingya. This isn't you know, this isn't religious persecution. This isn't China persecuting, the Weigo's right or the or the critics who believe things, right? This is just people who believe all the same shit being grumpy about how they believe it. Yeah. I mean, it's it's really window dressing. It's they're killing each other over window. Right. Eventually it leads to, you know, the the big overthrowing, you know. King. Charles gets gets his head cut off eventually all sorts of crazy shit happens. Yeah. Sort of surrounding all of this stuff. But I wanted to be clear that like this is not your, you know, this is not modern day persecution the way we talk about it. And for those of you who are listening who weren't raised in the United States. You have to understand that what we were raised with is this lionising of this small band of of you know, a hundred or so these noble innocent victims of persecution. Liberty here in America. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. See yet came to America seeking religious freedom. Right. They really came to America because they were they did not want their children to assimilate into a perfectly, Christian, culture culture. Right. They really that's why they really they were fleeing wooden shoes. Right. Yeah. And can you imagine? How a second language, right? He mentioned how different our history would be if they had named Plymouth new Scooby. First of all, this would be a much. I it would we'd be we'd be living in Australia. Now, everything would have Lacadelli, right? Would would be we'd be Australia Australia with snow instead of bison. We'd have bingles in right? Yeah. They're they're basically just a bunch of assholes. Yep. Let's not pretend they were anything, but a bunch of outs. And of course, you know, the the thanksgiving that we celebrate is theoretically a reference to a big meal that they had with a bunch of the native Americans here, which did happen a three day feast, and whatever, and it seemed nice everybody was sharing and everything. And then we can just gloss over the next hundred two hundred years of history with the the natives. Yeah. Knowing that they were originally assholes really helps inform. What comes next right, right? Yeah. Exactly. And also, they weren't even the first colonist from England in these United States Jamestown guys were there before. So it's like, why are we carrying about these people accept that? There was a mass migration of. Of Puritans thereafter who kept pouring over here. Once the colony had been established. Yeah. Because they you know. Yeah. Because frankly England didn't want him wouldn't either no doubt? And the Dutch who kindly took them in. Right. They said fuck off, right? Yeah. We're gonna take the sinking ship and get out of here. Yeah. Exactly. And that's the story of America. Founded by assholes. That should be on the crest. Right. Founded by Astles and continued and by founded by shit bags with buckled, shoes and stupid guns. Things change. So you know, when you're when you're cooking your bird and stick by the way, to I the first thanksgiving actually had like apparently there were turkeys. But there were also seals and swans seals. Yeah. So I don't know a whole different holiday like we should we? We're not celebrating. Right. Where get get your seal. Order your heritage seal. Yeah. Quick. Yeah. All right. Well, happy thanksgiving everybody thanksgiving. Enjoy your your blunderbuss, or whatever and will will catch on the other side. Remember, the assholes that brung us here. Let's move on. Well, Dan, ankle, Doug, fellas. Hello show after show. There's some people who are incredibly kind to us and show after show. There's some people who have yet to be kind to us. Right. I am officially threatening to quit. If if if we don't make any money of this thing, I am officially threatening to quilt similar word different outcomes. Yeah. And and worse worse outcome possibly worse. So anyway, but some people have decided that they would give us a little bit of their money, and we love them, and we love them for it. So we've got some some folks to thank. First of all we one of our donors the giant black invisible. Aardvark that lives onto the stairs. Thank you very much. Thanks, mom. How do you? How do you also be black and invisible? It's a mystery for the ages. We'll we'll just go with that. And then we owe some saints to some folks. So Mark I'm going to give you a Tory needs a Saint. Oh, tori. Okay. Well, this is this is a a middling saints at best but effective in you know. 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We love you moving. Well, mark. Yes, you're sitting over there looking for all the world like a monkey with glasses. Well, maybe that's all I am. I I one wonders one does wonder when looks at the world and at the human world and one begins to ask questions the similarities with the simians that we share which which is the title of our new memoir uncle Doug is a monkey. Because he's not here. Exactly. So, you know. Eve lucien. Yeah. Which is only theory. I like the u I like, the emphasize the evil, and the I the only way I can say Yvo Lucien is the way Richard Dawkins says. So you know, what is it? What is it? Not. Right. Can it be used to confirm all my racial, hatreds and misogynist fantasies to great question? So we've we've, you know, backing up twenty two we had a little discussion. We did with our in raw with our friend Aren raw his big brain and talked about, you know, some some interesting issues with Eva Lucien, but it's a big subject that requires more than one conversation. And that conversation got a little heady. We're we need we need some more some more conversation Fisher. Yes. So we've decided to bring in somebody that doesn't look like a Warlock. Okay. And and that is our friend professor Nathan who is a professor of biological anthropology, specializing in anthropological genetics. Whatever the fuck that bullshit as yeah. That doesn't sound like a real thing all around smarty pants. So a welcome professor Nathan. It's great to be here. Was all that stuff. He said real. Yeah. Okay. Too many syllables. I now how do you even fit that on a business card college? Boy, right. So so all right college. Boy, can we just call you that for the rest of the interview. So, you know, there may be people plenty of people listening to us have long emerged from from religion. But there there are people who are still emergent from their religious backgrounds. Who may not really know how to even begin to talk or think about this big big idea. What we have here is a country in the world that has a lot of focus who reject the entire study that you have devoted your life to. Yes. So that but has delivered your life to you. Even my own grandmother when I told her as doing anthropology, that's people who don't know what they want to do with their lives. Do. Oh, man. It's sick burns. You're listening to this episode. Probably not. Wow. Okay. I I'm glad to see you volved from from two generations ago. I try not to let it get to me. Yeah. So so, yeah, what we got is a bunch of folk who have been told their whole lives that the way humans and all the critters happened was that God done. And that's right. And it just threw them all on here. And then and then we're all done. Yeah. And you maintain I take it. That is probably not the case. Yeah. I yeah. I of course, I disagree. So I think there's two ways to approach this. And we'll do we'll do both ways. So pretend I don't know anything, you know, obviously, I'm a genius. So you don't have to. I am here. Exactly. So pretend I don't know anything about evolution. Explain it to me. And then we'll explore what it is not a little later on. Yeah. Pretend that uncle Mark has evolved. A a big brain with good prefrontal court. If you saw my feet you'd be like dear God. Yeah. He's a hobbit. So what do we got what what is evolution as it pertains to life on this here planet earth? So for speaking, very, generally, it's just changed over time. So well, that's obviously not real never happens. Yeah. So evolution is, you know, here we're talking in a biological context. And so what we're talking about is populations changing pretty subtly over generations in generations. So that when many many generations have passed we can see fairly large changes. So, you know, if you go back say two hundred thousand year, plus we might not see humans like we think of them now. But we're going to see something that's pretty human like, right, right? And these these are now we're talking we're talking about the fossil record. Yes. I'm sorry. I I guess I jumped in a little bit there. I mean, I mean, it's just important to talk about this because here. Here's the thing. You got your Ken HAM's of the world. You got your guys who devote their lives to saying that the bible is real and all of these bones that that that that you know, paleontologists or whatever finding in the ground don't prove any damn thing. Yeah. A bunch of damn lies. So Satan exactly we haven't talked about the fossil record. But what what is the what are the motivations of this process? How does this occur overtime? Well, there's there's lots of different ways that are. Sorry, excuse me, Evelyn can occur the one that people have most commonly heard of his natural selection. It I mean, quite frankly, it's part of my specialization. So I find it most interesting but species can change randomly. They can change through interbreeding there's different populations with different characteristics. They can change through mutation. But most mutants I knew it. I knew we were getting to the X men it someplace, oh, those documentaries. They're very frightening. Yes. Yeah. I'm waiting for the knives to come out of my fists. I'm pretty sure it's going to happen. But most of the time when when somebody saying Evelyn they're talking about natural selection. Right. And again, that's because it's the most interesting one it's the one that is always kind of so talk about that mechanism. How does that work so natural selection? Really? So you hear phrases like survival of the fittest, which I'm not I'm not a big fan of that's a a phrase that comes out of social Darwinism rather than science. But the idea is each generation. Is going to change a little bit. So not everything that's in the current generation not everybody who's in the current generation is going to be in the next one. Right. So people have different numbers of kids, some people die. So each new generation Mike hits. Right. I don't think you guys have kids know my kids represent me in the next generation those who don't reproduce in the next generation. And so we see this shift in how common something, right? So anything I carry is going to be more common in the next generation than anything that you guys carrying gloating at this point. I'm happy for that. Actually, I it's probably for the best narcissist. So well, and we're doing bats and podcasting is not an heritable trait. It might be who knows it's it's probably viral. It's probably carried on anyway. So the name of the game is really is really reproduction. Which is you know, everybody knows that. Right. But so you hear about survival of the fittest allot or it's about who survived who doesn't and that matters, of course. But it's also about and maybe more so about who reproduces who doesn't in what quantities. Well, and a lot of that can be, you know, if if a species sort of for whatever reason, they survive better when the males are really big and strong than the females start to choose big strong mates or prefer big strong mates. And then that just sort of passes that down is that sort of part of the deal. Yes. The reasons that somebody might reproduce more or less, etc. Are are huge try. It can be. Be. Yeah. That they are better suited to gain the attention of the opposite sex. It could be that they kill people of the same sex. And so they're the only option could be just that they're better at acquiring food. I mean, it just goes on and on sneaky. I like the ones that the that evolves. Sneaky genes. Yeah. Yeah. The sneaky, gene is doctrines next book. That was it was going to be as first book. But it's too sneaky anyway, sorry, Nathan just stares at us. Like, I know. It's like he's he's watching volition in action in reverse. So so millions of years and yet here we are right? We are. So, you know, the the the anti evolutionist the creationist would say this hasn't happened. There's no there's no proof that this has happened. How do you respond to that? It comes down to that. The other idiot thing they say, which is it's only a theory. Yeah. And then argument is mostly creationist trying to intentionally or not I usually don't know or care for that matter, but trying to divert from the actual science and just use the words themselves to discredit it. You know, it's a semantic thing incredibly frustrating because a theory science, of course, is not a guest. It's not a hunch. It's not a feeling it's not even just an idea. It is a body of hypotheses and ideas that have been tested over and over again. And it's it's not beyond fallibility. I mean, you know, we hold evolution in high esteem. But it's technically still true that we could find something that would drastically change our view of it. It's correctness. But what's so unique about it or not unique? But what is what is exceptional about? It is that it's been tested over and over it. It's it's been put to the anytime. We study anything. That result is going to tell us something about the validity of the evolutionary process with time. It's just been upheld over and over and over it. Right. It's I mean for for the layman like, Dan, and I I would we venture into the the dangerous realm of calling. It fact, I mean, it is this this is a factual. It's something that process. It's like we can't talk about human evolution that much. Because it's something that happens over millions of years, but we can we've observed evolution occurring. Yeah. So I mean, if you want to expand it, you can talk I mean evolution is just a change in house common. Something is and sometimes that means. Very large changes. But you know, if this generation we have, you know, sixty percent of people have Brown eyes and next generation sixty two percent of people have Brown eyes. We'd call that evolution. It's short boring. Really boring. But it's still a change. Right. We're getting taller is a species. Yeah. I I've heard that. And I I don't know exactly what the cause. Is there? It's just a height is the cause. Yes. Measurement? Right. Are measuring tapes have gotten a lot more sophisticated really have. And we no longer use our Cuba. But you know, one hypothesis there that I'm familiar with is that a shift to modernisation, we, you know, we we demonize and talk about obesity in the modern round. But when modernization occurs, we do see this kind of normal increase in height and weight as the stress of not having an food is lifted. So I don't know if that's truly evolution or if that's just cultural change. But I'm not an expert on that particular question. But even but like, you know, we win people. I just want to point out that like when people talk about will evolution doesn't because I've been to creation museums, and they've got they've got answers for all of the things that they think are being taught out there. Now, they're not good answer. They're not. I mean, like funny if you if you go to Ken HAM's ark encounter, you're going to see. And you know, they'll talk about well it wasn't species. It wasn't two of every species that was put on the arc to every kind of every kind which is what does that mean? What does that mean that nobody knows? But the, but they're very insistent that that micro evolution can happen within a kind. But they've, but but there's not proof ever that one species has evolved into another. It is in such gaps that their God resides. Yes. Indeed. Yeah. Well, it's pretty convenient that a process that takes thousands. If not millions of years is not observable within a lifetime in. So they can rely on that lack of what I see quite commonly is that they're expecting to see this with their eyeballs. Right. Like that. Right. That's the only way to observe something. And well, but here's what's crazy is we can observe with our eyeballs. So for instance, we can get into this in more detail, the that the Canard that there are no transitional fossils, which is something that the creationist love to go on and on about whereas we can see loads of transitional fossils. From one form to another in in the dirt with our eyeballs, we literally have transitional fossils. Yeah. Absolutely. And as an Esa geneticists, you know, my specialty the similarities between you name it, really. But just take you know, humans Neanderthals chimpanzees. The other great apes is fairly overwhelming. And we know things like the same shape. Right. So you can look at animals that look very similar characteristics can be fairly genetically distant. There's not this one to one relationship necessarily between genetic similarity and physical similarity now usually things that are generically related are pretty similar physically to, but they don't have to be right. So the question, I always ask is, okay. If this is the result of Craciun or common designer why is the design such that things that appear similar have similar DNA? There's no reason that. Has to be true. Right. But it is. There's no reason for DNA at all really. I mean, it's frankly, I find our I mean, I'm glad about having my body. And I'm happy that I get to move around in this world. But it's not a great design. Oh, yeah. Can we agree on this short? This is kind of a turn in terms of like a lot of things. I mean, we probably should get some people in here who have higher self esteem. Well, it's a podcast. We're not doing that. Those people are on television talking about I'm just talking about, you know, like my breathe hole and Mahfoud whole are the same hole until I can choke on things like, you know, just little things like that. That'd be a great thing to change. And then and then we'd be like if I were God, I would have thought of that choking on food is stupid. Yeah. Neil degrasse Tyson says about the lower end of the body. It's an amusement park in a in a sewage treatment plant, right? It's just gross gross. I know, but but still somehow, but fun we still have get down. So yeah, there talk a little bit more about the the idea that there are no transitional fossils. And so this is obviously something anthropologists, and I can comfortably say scientists in general don't ascribe to. So the kind of common answer to that is every fossils transitional fossil in ten thousand years. He'll be considered a transitional fossil not if you don't have kids. Oh fuck. Yeah. You're fossils worth nothing. That's all right. Transition to be different in death than it is in life. Right. Exactly. So, you know, the basic idea is those small changes I was saying before every time every new generation is going to change a little bit. And so you're transitioning so you can think of yourself as a transition between your parents and your offspring. That's perfectly valid can you look at your parents yourself on your offspring and notice any huge differences. No. But the timescale they're so tiny, you wouldn't see them anyway. Well, my parents are Trump supporters. So that should certainly be visible in the in the fossil remains, right? Well, yes, when when when they dig up their skulls and see the Maga just scratched on under the foreheads there. So yeah. Every every fossil is a transitional, and but there are ones that are clearly an in between of peasy Myers talking about Wael transition transitional fossils, and they're amazing. There's these amazing middle steps between variation and more modern. Yeah. The whales a great example, just because the the changes so substantial right? I I'm more familiar with the human fossil record. But in the case of Wales, you know, you're losing legs there. But we do, you know, we see this this transition in the Middle East from something that is land welling seed, dwelling the losing their their hips and legs. And actually if I recall correctly, you actually do sometimes get modern Wales. Born. With little vestigial festival things. But I don't again, not my, but as far as humans go, I think a lot of the time people are expecting us to be able to look at the fossil record. Look at these things on the ground and say, okay, this person of all from this person from this person and trace it back to our cells, which that's very tricky for a variety of reasons. One. We have something called the fossil bias, which is just you know, jargon for saying that not everything that's ever lived is going to be preserved. And so we're dealing with this sub sample, right? Right. But you can still see major trends, right? I can see in the fossil record. When Abe start to be by Peter. I can see when brain size starts to increase. And so while we might not know exactly which species gave rise to whom this transition from a quadrupedal ape to this upright walking, and then intelligent critter is very clear. Right. And so that that leads to another one of the classic creationist Canard's, which is if you move all for monkeys wire, they're still monkeys. Yeah. And I see this one a lot. And it's kind of I don't know. Why anymore? I mean, I don't think I I mean, I know why I'm sorry. But you know, even folk like Ken ham have put up on their, you know, their answers in Genesis like, hey, please don't say this. Yeah. It's because it's so dumb. Yeah. This is not a good argument. I mean, you know, none of Ken HAM's arguments are good arguments. Right. But he even he recognizes how bad this one is and the confusion there is that we're not involved in and I'm just gonna use chimps as a reference, you know, people say monkeys that's a pretty pretty broad category. But are most related critter to us. As is the chimp. We didn't evolve from chimps chimps, and humans share a common ancestor. And so if change this change, that's very slow is occurring over many generations. Sometimes this is just change in a single direction. Right humans two hundred thousand years ago aren't identical to humans today, but they're still humans, but sometimes our splits, right? So FICO back far enough. There was a single species that two groups of them got isolated from each other. And one would ultimately end and one would end in humans, and so humans are in chimps are really cousins, they're not once not the ancestor of another. So are humans evolved from an ape? Yes, are humans volved from any modern? No, right. And am I attempted human which one do do we have to do like twenty three and me to find out specific advising you not to answer that? Could get really ugly in here. So, but chimps I in in the same way, we are are still developing absolutely in whatever way they're developing a chimp today. You don't expect to look like whatever that common ancestor was they've evolved to. You know, an, and you know, we often another point that people want to bring up is. We don't know exactly what that common ancestor is. And maybe it seems on intuitive. But we don't have to know. Right. We can figure out that it exists based on lots of we playfully call it the Tumen which name I'm rather fond of. But we don't have to know. Right. And and and I think there's we talked a little bit earlier about this bias that humans have that we need to feel special among species, and that probably comes out of a lot of bad understandings of nature and some religious training etcetera etcetera, but we are not necessarily none of the animals and the plants and the things you see in this world right now are the end. I mean, unless we fuck fuck it all up and everything dies in the next election, which is entirely awesome. But we're. One hundred thousand two hundred thousand three hundred thousand years from now, we whatever we are. We'll be different whatever chimpanzees are will likely be different. Right. Yeah. I mean this process is still continuing. And that's a much more interesting question than I I mean, no scientists really well, not know scientists, but most Lantis are not arguing about evolution. But trying to figure out where it's headed. That's something. That's really difficult to do. But yeah, we expected to continue this. I thought is. So I guess suddenly disappeared to me the one of the exciting. I mean, we, you know, you we we've read all of the the science fiction about about, you know, genetic engineering and stuff, but like, even even if we're not like like, actively crisper in our our genome or whatever. We can actually affect it guide our to some extent. Oh, and we absolutely have. So I mean, we've done, you know, the first domestic animal was the dog, right. As far as I know in. We've we've fucked up the dog more than a little. We mess with those isn't that a great example to talk for for people to understand a sort of selection. Right. It's dangerous though, too. Because they say we'll look that was human guided and therefore human evolution must have been guided by something to oh God here, but it occurred. We're not talking to those dumb asses. No, we're not, and but humans have done it to themselves. I mean, you know, we talk about differences reproduction, I mentioned that earlier, but cultural factors matter. Right. So what's going on culturally affects how you reproduce so humans alter their environment. Whether that social or you know, you name it climate change, whatever we are going to biologically respond to that. Right. And I and I think about like advances in modern medicine things that killed off humans for for millennia have stopped killing us off. Right. So we so like, we're we're not going to be selecting as much for like that person has the vibe that will survive the plague or whatever, you know, what I mean. I would imagine that that part of natural selection is say some a stressor like smallpox right that we've now a radical hopefully, these fucking anti vaccine parents will not bring it all back someday. But but that's changed because there's a different outcome in off. Spring. Rates. Yeah. It seems like now we're selecting much more for brainpower than we are for physical power the way we use. I mean in general, that's that doesn't play a New Jersey, obviously. But I just feel like in a lot of places like what we're selecting for is very different than what it would have been even one hundred years ago or two hundred years alone three thousand years, definitely. And and, you know, marks example, smallpox thing goes market. But you think of like the plague in Europe, lots of studies have been done about. Okay. This is a lot of people dying off that should chain fundamentally change what's going on genetically in this population, and one of the findings as there were, you know, genes that were selected for that increased in frequency because the the people who carry them were more likely to survive the play into the nita's will not maybe not the neatest part. But a follow up that was at Saint Jean seems to also confer a or. Give it individual a somewhat in a protection against HIV. And so we have these folk who kind of are naturally a little bit more resistant, not immune, but resistant to the virus because of this because of the plane because the play and part of the intensity of the plague was we've talked about this before on the show was this bizarre. Fixation that European Christians had with cats, and that they killed cats in huge numbers cats were considered evil animals, and it would one of their only national natural defenses against the spread of pestilence was cats, and so I still think they're evil, but they are helpful in keeping the play catch Herat from time today will Mark has cats. Just I'm a cat. I'm a cat person. You're outnumbered on this show. Doug, and I are both. That's true. Crazy cat, ladies very much. Are we have the crazy cat lady? Jean? That one got through. Conclude? What's I just curious? What's one of your favorite kind of stories from the world of the world of Lucien and kind of how you work in the evolutionary anthropology? Science which is a very specific one. What's what's a story? That's really terrific. You mean like something happened like pre historically? Yeah. Whatever just something that's a great illustration of of evolution for our our fans out there. Well, there are there are many of them. So I mean, maybe one of the most famous is is lactase persistence, which the milk thing, that's a milk thing. So, you know, everyone's familiar with lactose intolerance. Right. We have this tendency to think of lactose intolerance as almost a disorder, and the really that's mostly a European bias. Lactose intolerance is the default human state, most people are lactose intolerant. Lactose tolerance shows up as a mutation. You know, ten thousand years ago as a response to daring, right? So when food resources are scarce in your living in a field with animals, and you've got nothing to eat, and you see that little baby cow eating something. Well, people at Eaton dairy before that they made something called Koumas, which is only worth mentioning because it's disgusting. Take mayors Melk, and they would like put it in a gourd spit in it and shake it up, and it would ferment the out of it booze. It was mildly alcohol. Ick Melk temperature milk. It's disgusting lack if they wanted more protein, sometimes they would add blood to it. It was a white Russian. But but rahmael has many more calories in it. So if you are facing starvation if you can drink. Fresh milk and survive and not have the debilitating gas diarrheal the kind of that wonderful stuff, it's hugely beneficial. So we see this mutation which is quite literally a break in a, gene. So most mammals drink milk when they're young and then can't drink at later that mechanism broke in some human populations and then swept to the population like wildfire. So we see most Europeans who are descended from daring populations back in the past are lactose tolerant now. And suckers. See we're better. What you do? Is you kick that little baby cow out of the way? And you get yours. I go get yours. I don't think better the right word because some people who are lactose intolerant. Don't get symptoms. So what does this mean? This means these people can eat ice cream. Get way fewer calories out of it and not have the symptoms. I mean, that's that's some bullshit fancy fairly jealous of it. That's an excellent mutation. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then I got my friend who she if she eats. A little tiny bit of of any dairy just is miserable for a day and a half. Yeah. Yeah. Well, she should have descended from the right people. It really it's a matter of of badly descending. It's not European specific we see shop in parts of west Africa and the Middle East, but you know, obviously concepts of diet, especially in this country have been dominated by studies on Europeans people of European descent. And so you'll get the food pyramid. And there's dairy Sitton is one of these big categories you fit eat. Whereas there's a lot of people who that's not not not a good thing at all not a comfortable life. Yeah. Comfortable. Yeah. Right. And then there's of course, the Jordan be Peterson, gene. Which is just eat all beef. Yeah. Yeah. And feel terrible. Yeah. That's that's also all of Argentina clearly done wonders for him. So anyway, that's the pollution of Jordan Peterson people. So. That's and that's what we were really aiming at segment to get there. Finally, we finally made it. So with that finally achieved professor professor professor Nathan. Thank you so much for coming on. Dan is a constant intolerant. It's not easy specialty. So thanks so much for coming on the show. Of course. Thanks for having me. Yeah. No problem. Let's move on moving on. Well, friends, that's it for this week show. Hey, we'd love to hear from you. So this Email how to how to heretic dot com or you can leave us a voicemail if you're one of the pilgrim fathers at nine three eight how to which is nine three eight eight four six nine eight six were also on Twitter at how to heretic quick note. Our dear friend, professor Nathan invites anybody who has questions about evolution and sciences their surrounding to ask him at his Twitter handle, which is at leftover monkey so yeah, that's crazy. Bill yourself about amazing awesome. Yeah. Thanks once more to our patrons at thanks to Cody Laden for editing the show and thank y'all for tune in everybody.
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