20 Episode results for "Euclid"

Growing Up Robinson with Craig and Michelle

The Michelle Obama Podcast

57:15 min | 7 months ago

Growing Up Robinson with Craig and Michelle

"Going to college with your big brother, who is a star Athlete in trying to? Create my own space that was Kinda. A. Pain. Yeah tough. It was tough. You're really paying me back now because now I can't walk down the street without people way. Are you Michelle's brother like eleven? Can I take a picture? It payback. Pay. Back Neck. Ka You got. Has. This episode of the Michelle Obama Podcast is brought to you by tied in times of crisis and uncertainty something as simple as clean laundry can be a huge source of hope that's why tied in PNG or dedicated to getting close to those in need with the tide low to hope program and you can help. Now you're small everyday actions had the power to become. Remarkable access service through tied loads a hope by simply scanning your receipts tied and other PNG purchases you'll help provide detergent to communities impacted by natural disasters and other crises because we all have a role to play share the load to learn more about how you can help had to PG good every day dot com slash tied that's PG good everyday dot com slash tied. Tie Everyone I am Michelle Obama and this is the Michelle Obama podcast. In. This episode I'm going to be talking about a type of relationship that means a great deal to so many of us and that is our relationships with our siblings. So I'm going to be talking to my hero, my first hero, my big brother, Craig Robinson. Creek was just everything to meet growing up smart hard working popular after high school he went on to become a star basketball player Princeton and then played professionally overseas. He was very successful in business and investment banking, and he has written a book of his own. But to me, he will always be my big brother. And, this relationship couldn't be more vital to WHO I have become. So without further ADO. Welcome to my show pray. Thank you for having me on your show that sounds so. Oh. My sister has a show and I want it. My brother is here with me on my show. We're going to talk about life our life growing up and it's probably good to start at the beginning. Do you remember moving from South Parkway? To Euclid now 'cause I was one I was a baby had no memories from when I was a baby. So No. Okay. So we have to explain this of gardens was in the hood, right? Right and it wasn't quite a project was a co OP. Yeah. But it was Kinda subsidized housing and in the back was the. Train Yard and it was a young boys dream to sit there and just watch all of these things going on. There were cranes back there. There were trucks back their men with hard hats and lunchboxes a little boys. And watching grown men with lunch boxes and helmets and mom used to let me sit out there and eat my lunch when they were eating lunch and watch what they were doing. Oh, I remember that you and your little boy wonder thought we are living live expected in the back in the alley by the trains. Says A. In. With the top layer of barbed wire rose a bar. It was like barbed wire. Are you kidding me? You know if you through an apple in, it would stick. What do you remember most about the Euclid House? I remember a couple of things. I remember first and foremost in the summertime. How Hot Gusts. Because there was no AC AC invented. Our Aunt Robbie own the home with her husband Terry Uncle Victor Terry Terry yes. We called him Terry for some strange reason, a distinguished the most distinguished man we knew at the time ever knew I mean Terry was. You know now we know it is distinguished but when he was just Kinda like, why is this guy dressed up? Wore a three piece suit everyday everyday everyday. He be mowing the lawn with his Fedora on the. He still had the vest on he took the jacket off cutting the. On Yard work. was. laxed is tie on every single day. When I think of Euclid. When I think of our childhood I, think of music. Music was the backdrop of everything. We didn't do anything without music, and that's because our father was a big jazz lover and had a huge jess album collection. That he cherished and our maternal grandfather southside was a big music enthusiasts and he had he had a wall full of jazz at I remember. Both of those homes south sides home in our home where you walk in and dad's got a record plan and it could have been dizzy Gillespie Miles Davis, or thelonious monk needed. That was some made up name. Small, it's like really dead. His name. Who did that did that to that man? The thing I liked about them is that they they didn't treat their albums in music as you can't touch these little kids you. We were taught how to use a record player properly remember you had learn how to take the the album out of the vinyl and you couldn't touch the side. You couldn't put your finger fingers on. You had to hold the rim like it was a precious disc and you just blow on it. You know to clean up just light blow you know you couldn't spit on it. You know it was a light blow. Then you lay it on the turntable, put it on the first song and let it play. You know and we used to like a certain song on an album. You try to put it in that little groove and you'd always get in trouble because. You'd scratch it s you know but we were still allowed to figure it out. You know it was there was never never any hands off. So we had our own albums and played our own music and one of my favorites was the Jackson Five. Stop the love you say, yes and ABC on the B. Side that was that little record on five. Our. Little bitty little makeshif record player. It wasn't the stereo system, but it was the thing you plugged in and you could put the disk in the forty five so you could play it. Yeah but we used to love playing the Jackson Five. Stop. Saving Taking slow I will someday you'll be all alone. And then Robbie live downstairs and taught piano. So you know we heard piano music trickling up through the floorboards of students good and bad playing lullabies and we both took piano lessons although you gave up quite early and you've never looked like you practice you never. I would practice but I practice bare minimum. If they said, you should practice thirty minutes. I would practice thirty minutes in like fifteen seconds and that's it and that's it. I'm done I'm going onto the next thing and you're very hard on yourself I'm going to digress a little bit because. Of Practice and here's our practice. I'm playing the tune and I hit a wrong note I just keep going and I finish it off, and then I'll go back again. Fracture you didn't. It got to start over and then it bit got to start over. Dent, Let. US just kept starting over because you had to play the whole whole thing. Perfectly that was that. Mattis. My maddening. Tease me a little bit about the perfectionism, but you didn't make me feel bad about it. You know no, it was. It was it was like a badge of honor slash joke slash hope she grows out of this. I remember you saying I've got a good idea. We can't get mom and dad to stop smoking break all their cigarettes psych sounded like a good plan. It sounded like a great idea. Well, that was after a couple of other attempts. We tried to dip their member. We took the tips of the cigarettes and dipping them in hot sauces, lemon juice and. That that would turn them off. That would turn that they wouldn't notice that cigarettes were damp. And they would just think. Cigarette Butts are. You know maybe I should cut this out. I remember. Distinctly, Dad put one in his mouth FAGO. This something wrong with these filters. And it didn't work. So I guess we figured after we dip them the tips in lemon juice and hot sauce than what was left but to just crushed. teeny pieces. So who actually did the crushing I? Know we both did I remember because there was a there were like two cartons underneath a sink and when we didn't even realize how expensive cigarettes were. Yeah and we broke two cartons worth. Yeah. Yeah. But the really. Scary but the funny thing about that whole thing was when mom when they got home and they were looking for this bigger and you going around the house. and. We're and we're sitting at the TV looking like trying to look at. But all always thinking it's working. It's they know they won't notice that their six missing gone and this'll be it'll be the end of like, Oh, well, under cigarettes I guess we're done with that bad hand. Then finally, mom steps on the garbage can in the topless she's frazier. Frazier. Craig Michelle what is going on well, and by then we were in tears. of We really think this is not thought the reaction would be. This was supposed to end. We were supposed to in happily with people with our parents going young people were correct and I'm glad you threw away our cigarettes. Now we know the error of our ways it didn't work out that way we got in trouble got in trouble and so much trouble. hour-long. Meal when Your Best Memories once I got up the gumption to go outside. 'cause you know what? Kind of kid? I Wou Right There was a force field around that house never left. I, know and I, write about it in the book. It's like I really did believe did little kids were Kinda messy you know I mean in my I like my little world of my dolls and the scenarios I would set up with my blocks in your Gi Joe's and you know so there was that part of the House for me that felt like a sanctuary it's like in our little play space at have my world set up and I was very territorial. Yes. Yeah I noticed I noticed and then re too much about how you use to keep me away from your situation I wrote about that I, think I was honest about the fact that I didn't want you interfering I didn't want your energy because I created a whole world for myself or Barbie and Ken they were divorcing or there had a baby there was some drama. Yeah. Go on and I felt like your play energy would mess with my the plotline yes of my My Life I remember that about Euclid, you know playing in the house until I got ready to be outside with the other kids you love your inside, but you would come out in the backyard because you're you play with me and I don't think people really know you used to play football in the backyard you would play baseball in the backyard we play wiffle ball you could hit you can catch we play running basis when we had a third of Dad came back there. Well, I was like your little play dummy. Yes. Because and I talk about this because that was the part of the beauty of our relationship even though. I could be a little Brat. You always included me and dad always expected me to be able to be your equal in sports. So you never babied me you know like you you can hit the ball you can catch you can run you can throw and you you guys you and dad never excluded me from learning how to box learning, how to do everything that the boys were doing and I really reveled in the fact that I could keep up with my big brother Oh. Well, that's good but it was selfish because I knew once you guy good you could come up with us to the park and be on our team. But our neighborhood community was something that I enjoy riding our bikes learning how to ride your bike for the first time on the side wall. And then you'd graduate to being able to cross over to the other side that was a big step. It's like okay and this side of the street, and now mom is giving me permission to go to the corner and ride my bike across to the other side of the street and right up and down, and then you could graduate to riding in the street just up and down the street the big step was going around the block. Do you remember the first time we rented wrote around the corner together around the block together tell the story that hear your version, O. It was first of all I was so proud the mom let me have you with no supervision off a block she could. Be like. You were taking me to the move. I, you would have thought I was taking you in a car some. I almost crashed because I was too busy turning around June to make sure you're right behind me I was like you. Okay. Okay Yoga. You know thinking about that. That was a big milestone for mom letting your kids be independent and you know. I think things that mom and dad, let us do that way and swear to help Dr Development you have to teach kids how to be independent, which means that at some point you've got to trust them that they can make decisions on your own, which that we're parents you kind think how hard that is to let your kids. To let a five year old Anna how you were seven it showed that she trusted new you know which meant that I could trust my big brother. You know. I. Don't know if you know this but. At Bryn Mawr where we went both went to grammar school in sixth grade. was when they started teaching sex education. And you know how mom and dad were about telling us the truth about everything right and I was very inquisitive. So though the test that the teacher gave us was just a group of words. And we had to identify if the if the words were male female or both. Well, I got all but one word bright. Now part of it was because I could take tests the right way right 'cause I knew if I didn't have this piece of equipment, it probably was the women ran the one I got wrong Ministration. Hadn't heard the word ever because I'm older than you and you hadn't gotten there yet and mom never talked about. So, I put that under men because it ensures. that. Wasn't a problem album was I only got one wrong. So mom got a call from the school saying. We have something we'd like to talk to you about we had a sex Ed test and your son get too many right? That's crazy that crazy hair and she. Went up to school. So what were they? Were they accusing you cheating where they know you know I don't know what they were accusing me being pervert I mean. What was the problem I? Think the problem was they were worried I was too far ahead to be in the class with all these kids who didn't know the sex Ed for sex. So were they gonNa put you in advance. Were they going to move to the playboy? Mansion? It's like sometimes the logic of grown people as they deal with children. Right and it's it is a real testament to mom's parenting because she didn't go crazy she went up and talk to the teachers and said. Did. It ever dawn on you that when kids ask you questions, you just tell them the right answers. I think for me having a voice. A lot of it happened because I always knew I had parents that would back me up. They would get us if we did something wrong they would. They weren't these kind of markets can never do no wrong but when we were right. When it was fair when we had truth on our side, they were right there with us. So it made it easy to go to. Adults who were in charge of us and just ask simple questions like this isn't fair I. Don't know why you. You're accusing me of that. You know and a lot of kids don't have that. We were we were fortunate to have that. And our parents absolutely. Another Fun memory of Dad was the time I asked him I said Hey Dad, are we rich? And he didn't rush to an answer like we're not rich he said to me would you think you think we're rich and I said in this was typical Robinson parenting, right? Ask You the question that you just asked them while they were thinking about how they were going to answer it. And I said well. We get to eat out every now and then. We go to the drive in which we you know we got that was a big deal going to the drive in and we have our own car. A lot of our friends didn't have cars. You know we live in a nice place. I was like by Golly we must be rich and he said well. You know if you think we're rich I'm going to show you the next time I get paid I'll show you how our budget works. So Friday he gets paid, he gets paid all of his check in cash. And he's like, Hey, can come in here is used to calming cat. And outgoing go in their bedroom. And on the bed, he's laid out. What was probably you know four hundred dollars but it looked like it was like two thousand dollars sitting on the bed. And he said, well, here's what I get paid and aisles leg Oh, my God we are rich. Is Like Way Whoa wait a minute, wait a minute. Hang on hang on his like. Where we live was like, well, we live here. He's like well, we have to pay rent here and I was like, oh. Yeah. That makes sense. So how much that and he takes a few twenties off and he puts that aside so that goes over there and I was like man, we Swiss are like Whoa that car out there that Deuce quarter that costs we have to pay for that every month that's one hundred dollars a month. So he takes another one hundred dollars off any proceeds to do this with all the bills. And we get down to where he's got like fifty dollars and I'm still thinking fifty dollars. That's a lot of money and is like Whoa wait wait we gotta buy. Groceries. And we have to buy gas for the car and you guys like eating out every now and then. So he got down to. Where there was twenty dollars left for the week and then he said he had to give a little allowance and a basically got down to where there was ten dollars left now. I left out a very important part because here's where I get my sort of fiscal responsibility. Before, he did anything. He took out twenty dollars and paid himself and said that goes into savings account. And I think that's the kind of. Lesson that could have been learned in a bunch of different ways but he had a way of making that one I, mean that's I I remember that like it happened two weeks ago. This conversation with the former first lady Michelle. Obama continues after the break. This episode of the Michelle. Obama podcast is brought to you by tide a load of laundry. Go a long way. That's why tied has been providing families in need with clean clothes since two thousand five, their mobile laundromat travels to areas that have been impacted by natural disasters like hurricanes, floods, and wildfires. 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You're my first hero, but it's not like you're not a pain in the butt sometimes for. Going to college with your big brother who is a star athlete. Entering Princeton and trying to Create my own space and having this big looming shadow of a brother over me. That was kind of. A. Pain. Yeah, it's tough. It was tough. You're really paying me back now because now I can't walk down the street without people way. Are you Michelle's brother like eleven. Can I take a picture? Payback. Payback. But. What about you? Now you were an athlete who didn't play organized sports. That's how I always described you because I've I've seen you run as fast as boys and play softball with the boys, but you chose not to play organized sports in high. School. Some of it was as the younger one. I was trying to contrast self against you and because you were the sport kid even though I like sports, it was almost like people assumed you know you mustn't play basketball. You know so little stubborn. Me was still like Oh you you assume I should play basketball well I'm going to go over here and I'm GONNA learn how to dance and I'm GonNa do ballet and I'm going to do all these things because basketball is what my brother does. Don't define me by what he does I do something else and I will do it just to spite you don't have. I know. I know everybody heard that you heard it here first. I'd also makes me think when we talk about sports and all that I think about. How important sports and athletics and movement has been to our family How much our dads disability played a role in how we value sports in how we valued movement and I was just wondering if you thought about that too you know I it took me a while to come to grips with the fact that dad had had ms as a disability multiple sclerosis and I didn't really come to the realization that he was disabled until we go somewhere and people would say, Hey, what's wrong with your dad's leg and I'd be like, oh. Yeah. he's got a bad back. He wants the limp he's had it all the time, but it doesn't affect what he has to do. He gets up and does everything so. Most of my childhood I block that out. A blocked out the fact that he had a disability until it started to get progressively worse. and. He started having a use the crutches and get around and then we would go places. It was better if we had a wheelchair and that kind of thing, and then we started to really dig into what was wrong with them. I. Always think about you know how much we miss that and I I. The way I handle. That is I have the sort of fuzzy idea of what happened when he died and you did such. An. Eloquent job in in your book becoming talking about that whole process and it made me help me relive a lot of the stuff. And people ask me all the time. They say you know you and your sister seem really close and I'm like, of course, we really close and they ask us if we ever fight. and. Outside of you being a little kid and not wanting me to play in your space, we'd never ever fight or argue. And the last time we did was when dad died at, we argued over what kind of casket to get dad and I was like my emotion said get them the most expensive thing. Right? Because had shows are love and it can't be cheap and you were lake, he's dead and dad wouldn't wanNA spend a bunch of money on a box and. got into it. We don't remember it I remember to me what I remember was the really the aftermath of it because I know we argued about the coffin but the best part about the fight was that we've tried to have a real fight and we didn't know how. We didn't know how to fight because we never got any fights. So moms just starts laughing and. Do you all hear yourself. You all hear your cells. Frazier. Bahir cracking up. And then we started we were like laughing and crying at the same time. That's. How I remember that and my question to you is what kind of went through your mind looking back now on DAD's death. And how do you see that having played out in our lives him him dying so early Dad was always the glue for the whole family, not just us but for mom's side of the family, as well as his side of the family, he was the the patriarch you know people came to dad because dad couldn't come to everybody so that made our house a hub in so many ways and I think when we lost him it through us for second. It's like, okay, here's our. Here's here's our core our corps was missing, and so we had to kind of rebound and remember all that he taught us and understand that family is key. We won't have dad is our excuse to keep things going. So we've got to be pretty consistent about setting up rituals and routines, and as a result we always close. But I felt like after Dad's decided we were closer oh. Yeah in. Well. I got I I'm trying to remember the When I really started being protective of who you because you were such a mature. Youngster that I was never worried about somebody being with you who I had to worry about and you could take care of yourself but I remember once you got the college that was when I was like. Anybody does, ANYTHING UNTOWARD YOU'RE GONNA have to deal with me. Yeah which was not that helpful. You just ruined your whole day I mean I don't know what it did who knows the amount of clay I could've gotten. Who there may have been one or two guys you dated that I absolutely did not like. But for the most part your decisions on who to date were solid you know just being able to judge people and develop your own relationships and be able to navigate that at a young age and you're usually a pretty short term dating. Let me date this guy four-month nap and Lo and behold you meet Barack Obama. Burn. So after a while, you like finally GonNa let us meet them you drove up in your Nice Black Saab. And you were driving of course and and he gets out of the passenger side and I remember the first thing mom said ou he's tall. He's kind of good look at what you thought of him. As important to me, right. So I did ask you in the the way that we learned that you could check out the character of another dude was to take one accord. Play some basketball. I'm like Whoa wait a minute. Wait a minute. This is professionals I'll play with. We can't be bringing some guy that will make him look bad. So I, was like Oh let me figure how to do this out. So we have this pickup game and when you play pick up basketball, a lot is based on integrity because you have to call your own fouls there no referees and there's always a guy who acts like he's a good dude until he has to make his own calls and he's calling files all the time. Well, Barack wasn't that guy and that was good to see. That was the first thing the second thing. Is. He could actually play a little bit. He wasn't lying about that you play. Was He was just like Oh play a little bit and it spoke a lot to his authenticity. Is Far as I was concerned. That was kind of a big star in his column that said Okay we can keep going. Yeah. So thank you for that my pleasure, my bunk. Glad it worked out. Because of Dad's death, you were the person that I would go to. So in in that way I depend on you more for all the things that dad would do for that double check for that gut check for that. I'm feeling nervous just like when Barack was running for office you know I mean it's like. Talking to you about my fears about it. You know having you assure me that this is going to be okay like you were the one that said, you know you married a guy who has this kind of ambition and this in in his heart. So what are you going to do you? Might I don't know if you were memo I, remember it I remember because you were in one of your moods where you were like now I want my husband to be like Frazier Robinson. And first of all, that's not fair to anybody that dude he was a special guy and the is no way you were going to put that pressure on any guy would never work. You never be married but second of all was what I said about I was like listen you're trying to penalize because let's face it. None of us thought that Barack do when he was talking about doing you know I mean I i. don't know that he thought well, could I will tell you. He may not told you this but when we first met. Came over the first. Thanksgiving, I figured I'm GonNa do the brother-in-law thing and take him to the Cy Hey? Man Dad's not here. What do you think you're going to be doing for your future and he was like, well, I would love to try this political thing and I was like Oh really. Like like what do you want to run for mayor for all and he's like you know now may be a little bigger than that. So maybe I'd run for Congress or run for the Senate. Maybe, for president, I was like, Shh Shh man who? You don't want to say that too loud around here. Folks that thank you. Crazy. and Lo and behold. He makes him. Do. You remember when you first became first lady I mean actually the first time when we were having dinner waiting for the results stem at the high or wherever we were and we had the dinner we were going to have that was going to be normal. No TV's nobody had their phones on the table and the kids were there and we're sitting there trying to talk about things as if we were you know had just play had had the kids had a soccer match and we're over on a Saturday afternoon like we would normally do and all of a sudden. You hear barracks phone buzz. then. You hear your phone buzz. Then you hear my phone does but Barack looks at his phone. And he'd he takes a look at it holds it up looks at it straight on parallel sets it back down. And he says. It looks like we're GonNa win. And you're like, oh And no one said anything. For what felt like. Fifteen minutes, but it probably was just you know forty seconds. And Mom said. Well I guess we'd better get ready. And all I could think of was Oh my gosh. Barracks going to be president and you're going to be the first lady. And then let's jump ahead to see you guys on that stage. Well, first of all. When you guys went out on stage before we did grant a grand park lit up up filled with people a whole row of media, the bulletproof glass bulletproof glass and everything just came hit. It was like this has to be a television show and the you guys go out there and it's like you're the. Beatles. Is Anyone. Still doubts. That America has a place where all things are possible. Wonders. If the dream of our founders is alive and are. Still. The power of our democracy. Tonight, is your answer. And it was eerie because it was a warm November night which was unusual. It was unusual. It was. Warm. In November unit felt so eerily silent. People were excited. It was it felt palpable, but it also felt. Like a calm in a way that because the whole city was shut down in order for this thing to take place in grant park. So all that people had to get to the park on public transportation or buses or wrong. And those tens of thousands of people all park somewhere in the city and walked to that park that night and in what I remember distinctly was there was a feeling of both relief and hope. And what people ask me all the time once you got there was, hey, how do you deal with the fact that people say all these horrible things about your sister and your brother in law and you know they don't understand how we view life right and I always would tell them like listen. We grew up with frazier. Marian. Robinson. First of all, you do not really care what people who don't know you think about you that if you're doing what you love to do and you're doing the best job that you can do, it doesn't matter what those people say and I just used that when I would listen to people talk about you on Fox or on CNN or they the you know the bright mean stories and people would try and get me to be upset about it and I was like listen these two are doing what they love to do, and they're trying to do the best for the most people. And that makes me proud. I think that's what made you a wonderful first lady. And just watching you go from. The sort of not for profit into the White House was. Spectacular. I'd never questioned that I would have the support of my brother and my mom although. When we when Barack was elected and it was time to move to the white. House, one of the things that I wanted was to have mom come in live with me but when I asked mom. Would you come to the White House? She was like, no, you don't. I don't need to be in the White House I'm fine here nuclear because mom had been helping me with the kids all through the campaign and even before that. Yeah just balancing things. But who was the one who was able to convince mom to move to the white? I was able to convince mom to move to. Because because I'm her favourite. That's why I'm her show. Just, take a moment to pause America. Yes, Michelle Obama. Is The least favorite child Said Marian. Robinson. Loves her son. And I could be first lady I could be the queen of England and she's still going to be like with. Kevin. So thankfully. You convinced her that her poor daughter. Yes and I think mom kind of understood when I presented it to her that. You guys are going to be so busy. She's not gonna be intruding it all. The deciding factor was the girls really needed some stability while you all were trying to figure out what this new part of life was going to be and trying to create some continuity in their lives with his big transition was so important and we all knew that. So it wasn't just mom moving but. Everybody, in our family, our friends made it a point to be there for us. So almost like every major thing we did in the white. House we invited our friends and family and created new traditions. Everybody came to the White House with us which had been a huge sacrifice on your part. Yeah. But we all felt like we were part of the team of hey, let's help. You guys help this country you know and by helping you guys met helping the family. Of all the things that people want to talk about. With you guys in the White House right. Air. Force One, the White House itself Camp David the most questions I get are about secret? Service. So people think that this glamorous thing that you have. That, they don't realize is so intrusive in out of the ordinary. So how do you how do you deal with that? Well, first of all to the credit of the secret service they have some of the most professional people there trained. They care about what they do. They know what they're doing in A. so first of all we have to go in thinking are this is their job to right right because if something happens to me or to the girls, there's a congressional hearing somebody could lose a job and I would have to explain that to the girls it's like you know I would joke and it's like You know what? The Secret Service are here to protect the commander in chief of the United States of America, we are ancillary to that. You know we are protected because if something happens to us could jeopardize the security of the nation not because they care about you me. It's like they don't follow around an eight-year-old either you know think about how not fun it is for them to be sitting in a car while you're at a play date. But with that said, you know me, Sasha, each had a pretty extensive detail. You know each of them had a armored car that they were in with two drivers in a lead car with more men with guns and some women and a foul car. Imagine a second grader. That's how Sasha went to school every day. That's how Molina went to school every day. This. Was all great when the kids were little right because their agents were like they're best friends it was like uncles and so you had agents that they were out at recess with the rest of the kids pushing the kids on the swings and they were in classrooms and kids would bring the agents cookies and make sure. So the whole school kind of started to know you know that me and Sasha had a detail. We also were lucky that the girls went to the school with the Biden grandkids as well and our good friends so. And Sasha were the only kids in their school with detail. So that kind of helped like when Barack was coaching the vipers sashes fourth grade wreck basketball the. Lease fourth grade, girls from their school. Were on apparent led. Team. Maisy Biden was also on the team. So imagine on any given Sunday when the girls were playing you know you have me in the gym, the President of the United States the vice president the second lady Jill there and everybody's detail is in this little. Ymca Jim Packs vows packed house path of them because we brought like one hundred people that are guarding us and you got agents line up on the wall try not to cheer and Joe's yelling at maisy screaming school heart score. It was seen it was kind of a spectacle. The leaders of the most powerful nation were in gym watching fourth grade girls go up and down in bad basketball. I. What I want to know is At what point did you say? Okay although I'm the first lady I'm going to treat these girls and their activities like I'm a regular mom Yeah I mean that just came with it was like. If they're going to be normal. We have to be normal parents. We made sure they had responsibilities, and so we had to do things like institute rules. The housekeepers couldn't clean the girl's rooms and that they had to make their own beds and have a set of chores. At least you know we grew up you know we each of us we had our own set of responsibilities. I remember what you did but. But I know I had to clean the bathroom. Right each had to do the dishes. We had our shared nights of doing the dishes was your what did you do I had Monday Wednesday Friday you had Tuesday. Thursday Saturday a mom did him on Sunday. I also had yard duty, cut the grass rake, the leaves I'll and what do you like I don't know what your duties. They weren't my duties take the garbage out. I took the garbage at sure. I took the garbage out at some point. After I left what I've spent. My years taken the garbage out. Even though that times have changed, we both have tried to give our kids these responsibilities that sorta were given to us and it somehow we feel like it's made us better people so. I think that's one of those things that for you to be able to do that even at the White House is is really admirable and I'm sure mom I'm sure mom now as a grandparent was like, don't make those girls cleaning and we never. As a grandmother she showed up totally different she sure did. Our kids. It's like she acts like you know why do they have chores? It's like because you taught us to be we're who are you lady. We grew up with elders in our midst I mean and we watched people age. You know when our aunt Robbie got. She developed cancer. She had to be taken care of member win. Terry her husband got older. He had dementia. Yeah, and would you know there was always the Oh Terry got out you know one of the memories it's most vivid in my mind is dad asking me now I remember dad can barely get himself around and he asked me to come down and help him give terry a bath because he really couldn't give him a bath and lift him up. And to see dad behaving this man and this man being so thankful you know I I'm I get choked up just thinking about it and he was terri uncle tear was a dignified man. This is the man who wore three piece suits Zora he was a pullman porter. He was an elegant man, but he got old. Yeah and he couldn't care for himself and it was just a given that our parents but we also saw the toll that that can take right because there was a period of time when Robbie was really sick and before she got care that mom was she was working she was taking care of us. But in night she would have to bathe her make sure she got fed and I remember how tired mom was before she decided you know what I can't do all of this by myself but I think because of mom's experience with Robbie She is very determined to be independent at some point she's going to be living with one of us. Now, just a matter of who is going to be an I'm the mean one soil, Crowley be us. That's quite around I mean in terms of I'm the one that's GonNa make the call 'cause you won't mom will be like fallen in the bathroom and you're like, well, she wants to live on her own. She will definitely live with one of us, but everybody loves mom. So you know it's more a fight over who gets to. have her yeah. and. The other thing that. I kind of. Take away from our childhood. I think one of the reasons we get along. So well, the fact that I never felt like I was competing with you and I think that mom and dad did a good job of. Recognizing us as individuals, and so I've tried to do that with me and Sasha is like give them a moment. You note to show me who they are right because you know like I said earlier kids come here with a certain temperament I was always feisty. I was always internal perfectionists. Sasha's temperament is different from elise that's different from Italy your daughter that's different from avery and it's like you've got to give them space and parent the kid you have not the kid you want Ray and mom and dad were good about that. So I always felt secure in who I was and fine with who you were. Right you know your success was my success I wasn't competing with you. So I'm trying my best to make sure that me and Sasha feel like they're on the same team even though there are two girls and all that their success is each other success. That's all you have that. Relationship is special. What dad showed us is that in order to build meaningful relationships with people is that you have to show up for them. Relationships whether it's sibling or parent child or friend relationships, they don't happen through. Osmosis they happen because they make a decision to be very deliberate about. Connecting with people and the connection can look like a bunch of different things. Right it can be a phone call it can be taxed. It can be a whole dinner or set of conversations what what I saw in our father was that nothing replaces getting on the phone and calling somebody showing up for somebody. I. Know that if I call you and I need you, you will call me back. Right away. Yeah you may call back and go you okay but you show up and I want to show up for you. So that's what I would tell people. Yeah. That's like we learned that you gotta show up for people. That's that's a really one. That's a really good one you have to show up is absolutely right I can always trust who you are and I don't know that everybody can say that about their siblings you know mum. That I know I know who you are through through I mean that's that's the wish that I have for all of our kids is then all of our nieces and nephews on Mike our kids that they show up in the world. I don't care who who they are, what their titles are. I don't care how much money they make I don't care whether they're famous or not I want them to show up. With, empathy with consistency with honesty you with decency and if we if we can pass onto them. Those traits that our parents passed on to us I will tap out in view us as successful old people. When the TIME COMES I WANNA. Thank you my big brother Craig for taking time to be on the PODCAST. This is been an enlightening conversation full of fun and laughter and humor, but this was really enjoyable. Love you love you. Well. As you can see, I am so grateful for the relationship that I have with my brother to be to trust him. To be able to count on him to know that he's always gonNA show up for me. That's a gift I cannot replace. And so if you have a sibling in your life whether that's by blood or by choice, I hope that you'll take some time to dig into that relationship with them too. I bet it will be as meaningful for you as it was for us. Thanks so much for listening everybody and I will talk to you again soon. The Michelle Obama podcast spotify original presented, and produced by higher ground audio and collaboration with US productions. From Higher Ground Audio Dan Firemen Anna homes, and looked Moham- are executive producers. Geneeral is our editorial assistant. Adam Saks consulting producer. From dust like productions Mitchell Yussef is the executive producer. Arwen next and Jonathan. Shift. Our. Producers. Additional production support from Mary Nov.. Jonathan Shift. Let is also our engineer. Manica Wilhelm is your kyle producer and transcriber spatial. Garcia is the dust light editorial assistant Daniel. Don Ostrov and Courtney Holt are executive producers for spotify. Special thanks to Mackenzie Smith Joe Paulson Pristina Shawki listed winter China Clayton Alex May Caroline Adler Morales. Own. Halima skull. And thanks to Clean Cut Studio Search Party Music Tyler Lechtenberg. Dylan Rupert Caroline, Lipka young creative agency, and the IRAS Aaron. Our theme music is by Stevie wonder original music by Andy Clawson, and Telly Fresco. The song you heard the beginning of the show is spaceships by tank in the BANKAS. Thanks for listening to the Michelle Obama podcast. This episode of the Michelle Obama podcast is to you by tied during the cove in nineteen crisis tied to hope expanded its program into Thai, cleaners tides full-service on demand laundry and dry cleaning service. 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Peace, Order, and Good Geometry

Ideas

55:08 min | 1 year ago

Peace, Order, and Good Geometry

"I'm Keith Macarthur. Unlocking Bryson's brain is a podcast about my son. I am the rare disease that keeps him from walking or talking Bryson's perfect. His life is really hard and our families. Search for a cure. Oh My Gosh. Maybe science is ready for this. It's part memoir part medical mystery. We can do just about anything modifying. Dna Heart in my throat cure. His controversial unlocking braces brain. Subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. This is a CBC podcast. I'm Nola I add. Welcome to ideas as you know a mirror. This should have been s in Washington walking around the streets. Together we That would have been so lovely. Yeah I'm not in Washington DC. Right now. But I've been planning to go there to meet Amir Alexander. A historian with a penchant for mathematics for standing on Capitol Hill the tallest hill in the entire area. We're looking down right towards the whole Grand Mall just opens their beneath us. Fifteen minutes from the White House and Mir is not in Washington either. He's at his home in Los Angeles where he teaches at the University of California travel restrictions. Don't stop us from imagining ourselves. In the American Capitol will see the Washington Monument. This giant obelisk bike needle pointing at the sky. And right behind it if we keep looking straight and it is good that day. Also see Lincoln memorial at it will be split into right there just with the Washington monument right in front of it and it is strikingly strikingly straight arrow straight for Amir Washington. Dc isn't just a side of political power. It's also supreme case of highly potent geometry. So we're a styling of an elaborate geometrical construction that was put there with great care precision and in ten geometry the science of lines and curves and shapes and space and in. Amir's telling geometry is a message. Geometry is a fortress. Geometry is a proud defiant. Call to order something in the world that we can hold onto and believe all those things are. This is the absolute absolute necessary. Incontestable beautiful truth. I'm fascinated by the ambition in the power of that claim. I mean what could be grander? We're calling this episode. Peace Order and good geometry. The year is seventeen. Ninety one in the eastern United States on the banks of the Potomac River stems an immigrant from France. Back in the old country Piermont. Fall was an art student. He's only claim to fame being the son of a respected painter in the court of King. Louis the fifty. But in America Pierre has made a name for himself as a revolutionary fighting with George Washington against the well. The war is won. The colonies are supposedly free and now. Pierre has a big job on his hands he was given the assignment of designing a capital. It was only three years after the ratification of the constitution of the United States. And then found had this idea that he could recreate the principles of the Constitution. In this. What was then just a marsh and and the wasteland. He could recreate the principles and write them into the street. Plan into the design of this city which was quite a remarkable idea and the way he was going to do that is by using the language of geometry geometry as I said Lynn Fund was a Frenchman and not just a Frenchman. He was a cure for the kings of France. He grew up in the in the palaces of and the Louvre and the tillery and he knew all those very closely from personal experience and those great gardens and those great palaces. Were designed according to geometrical principles because once. Something is written in a geometrical language. It's not just aesthetic. It's not just pretty but it becomes permanent. It becomes unchallengeable it becomes necessary becomes arguable becomes true nothing less was required for the found the United States country that was only just Fifteen years old and Still made up of all those colonies each pursuing their own interests and what they needed Washington especially recognized something to unify them and hold them together given the intention that he was trying to express constitutional power in pavement and concrete and trees the execution successful as far as it given given that task I believe it is remarkably remarkably successful. I mean I love Washington DC. I love going there. Part of it is the deep meaning that is installed into the architecture of the city and it was installed there by Land Fon today. We talked about the three branches of government of the Constitution. There's the legislative. The executive and the judicial the judicial at the time was a little bit underrepresented. The Supreme Court at the time was simply not what it is today but he did. Install the two main centres of constitutional power. He installed an at the nodes of the city. One of them is of course. Two Houses of Congress Capitol Hill that we just described the other one is what we know. Is the White House? Now in had grandeur ambitious for the White House with White House was built years later. He called it a little country house that is unworthy of the nation. He Wanted Palace you know. He's had for Scien- mind that he thought America should be at least as grand does that but at any rate he installed it as a center of power at those two nodes and between them this straight Arrow Avenue Pennsylvania Avenue and the centers of power balanced on the two ends of this Grand Avenue off then he completed this structure Pennsylvania Avenue is essentially the hypothesis of triangle. Who has its third node? Where today we find the Washington monument straight line from the capital and straight line coming down from the White House meeting at a precise right angle. Creating an immovable triangle this balance of tension. Those two great powers that pull against each other press against each other are courtesy dependent on each other but he didn't stop there quite apart from those great not that really entire city. There is a web of interlocked interrelated local centers those little star-shaped Plaza that are spread all over the city and his design. And they're still there and he named him after what the Fifteenth States. So they're the script central federal power on top of that. There is an interlocking web of the local power. The state powers the each ruling control their own environment. Neither one can escape the other and what you get is this complex elaborate and truly beautiful presentation of the political order a very complex Republican political. What does that representation say at the time about America's democratic ambitions? If anything America at the time was well. It was not literally the only Republic or republic like Geneva. Little cities will but it was by far the largest and most ambitious republic at the time and there was a real question whether such a Republican even last never since perhaps the Roman republic has never been anything as ambitious creating a republic with such a large territory and so many people and the question was canvas. Even last that was an open question it was still an open question to Lincoln. Writing Eighty seven years later will a nation of the people by the people for the people. Can it lasts. Washington did Washington the city as well as as well as the man was an emphatic. Yes this is. A system built to last. This is a system that is not just a random compromise between competing power vis states. Want this this states on. That will find some compromise snow. This is a deep order. This is a geometrical irresolvable uncontestable order. That will hold together and with last tweet dirty. It is a bold statement. It's hard to know whether the people who bay that statement truly believed that was the case but that was the answer of the city. We have this capital and we show that this order. The constitutional order is here to stay home. The genius of our constitutional system is recognition that no one branch of government alone could be relied on to preserve our freedoms one last question about Washington. Is it apparent to the average person when they're looking at this beautiful structure the way it's built as you say or the way it was intended? Is there any sense of that person? You know. Actually apprehending all of this? If they didn't know what they were looking for you know I think the answer is yes and no. I don't think anybody just visiting Washington DC will say. Oh yeah this is just like the constitution you know and so on but the message there resonates and I think I go to Washington DC. I feel I believe on not when you stand in the mall you'll look up at Capitol Hill. You see this beautiful house of the people with the big flag over it rises over you. I mean there power to that. There is something inspiring to that ultimately messages power it is about power but it is also because there is more than one center of power it is also about a balance of power. This is not this is not just the king's Palace on the hill. Here we are the heart of a republic and I think that does come through the story behind. Geometry's power in the modern world begins in the ancient one in the western tradition. It really gets going with the most important. Geometry linked Euclid without proof can also be denied without a straight line may be extended to any type unit. Is that virtue which each of the things that exist is called? What strict now for such a crucial figure euclid is a kind of site? Most historians say Euclid came from Greece but worked as a scholar in each suit. He was a man but apart from that who was he. That is a great enigma. We know very little about Euclid. We know that he lived in Alexandria and he worked in the Great Library. We know that he worked around three hundred BC. Under the patronage of King Ptolemy the I of Egypt and that is pretty much all we know about about Euclid except what we know about him is what he bequeathed to us. What he wrote what he sent it down which is above all the elements. Probably the most influential and perhaps the most important book of Mathematics Everett again with the caveat in the Western tradition. Euclid didn't invent geometry. The study goes back much further than three hundred BC and far beyond the territories of Ancient Greece but Amir believes something unique happened geometry when Greek scholars began to focus on it. The remarkable thing about Greek mathematics is not so much any particular results that it achieve although those are undoubtedly impressive themself there of course other great mathematical traditions in the ancient world. There's Egypt there's a Babylonians admitting algebra later on of course in Indiana in the Arab World. Identify things that are fundamental to us but the Greeks were the only one that came up with the idea that you can prove anything that is a very implausible assertion. The idea that you could arrive at absolute truth and do that simply through correct rigorous mathematical reasoning. I mean how does anybody arrive at any absolute truth? I mean what what what do we know right so at the age world. Usually the arguments were religious. Right if you know if you learned something if the Oracle Adelphia or divine revelation or totally that that was true but the Greeks were the only ones who thought that human beings could actually arrive at absolute truth and do so through mathematical reasoning. When we talk now about having a theory we usually mean something like a guest or suspicion or perhaps a working hypothesis in ancient Greek to the word. Tayo Raimo just meant something to be looked at but for Greek math scholars. A theorem posed a higher challenge. A theorem was a statement to be proven beyond question. So you could rely on it and use it to prove more theorems. This idea of proof was a new development as a mere sees it. It's all a casual you. Don't go to that. What did I do today? You know. Maybe I'll prove the theorem. You know why nobody other proved a theorem. Maybe I'll prove a theater so I'll do something something you know it was. It was part of the Greek philosophical tradition which they had enormous belief in rationality and inhuman reason than of course Plato. Who was a great advocate of geometry? He is the one who believes that is through breezing through geometry and through dialectics. You can actually ascend to a world of perfect trip so clearly. It is related and is integrated with this broader broader philosophical tradition. But they went about and started proving. Theorems we don't know what the first one was. Probably that's an unanswerable question. But by the time Euclid came around there was a fairly large body of proofs of theorems about Jew metrical intrical body about triangles in straight lines and circles and so on that was well known at the time. Euclid what he did. He took all this body of knowledge. And you can say he systematize it. Euclid IS NOT REMEMBERED. Unlike archimedes say or Era tostes a little less. No you not remembered for any great mathematical discovery or technological achievement. What he did he took knowledge that was known at the time and he systematize it and he turned it from a set of disconnected truth or perhaps a few related here after related there and he turned it into a geometrical world entire world of interconnected truth. All of them are founded on a set of assumptions. Very simple things like The whole is greater than its parts. Two right angles equal to each others. Who can there is no way anybody can deny them and moving step by step for these elementary assumption that no one could dispute. He proved I one truth. And then another truth and from those in every time preceding by very careful. Little small geometrical step until you have an entire network of truth. Interconnected fixed in relation to each other because each one is dependent on the other and all of them ultimately on basic assumptions. Why would you WanNa do that at the time? Do you think magic being in that time and BEING EUCLID. Why would you want to go down that road? That's remarkable thing about it. It didn't occur to anybody else to do that. In fact all the mathematical proofs that we have today are direct descendants from those proofs in ancient Greece. This is not something that was you know. Many many Yuban innovations were found in many different places over several times. Not this this was only once and it wasn't doubtedly related to the a broader Greek Ogle tradition and particularly and this is my view particularly to Plato because it was Plato that pointed us where we live in this imperfect follow corrupt world. The up there up there in up there in the heavens metaphorical perhaps but up there. In the heavens are is a perfect world. Rational incontestable necessary and with Ukulele did is create that world he created that world that perhaps you though circles on earth imperfect lines aren't straight. Triangles are of Fuzzy Much. Easier than than they are than they are now but up in the heavens all those things hold. This is absolute absolute necessary. Incontestable Beautiful Truth Yeah. It was quite an accomplishment Left a big impression absolutely. I mean the fact that we're still talking about it today. I wonder if if we could just do a bit of homework and just explain. What is it that he compiled one of those elements so for example You can prove that. The sum of the angles of a triangle is always two right angles. What we call a hundred ninety degrees but geometrically simply two right angles the some of the The some of the young or the notion or their by year famously if you have a retrial just like the one you have in Washington. Dc with a the White House and Congress and so on than the some of the square of the legs equals the square of the hypothesis. So that's another truth. Another one is for example in angle contained in half a circle is always ninety degrees m salon and those are things that you can absolutely prove without a shadow of a doubt based on those trivial self evident principles that you start at. You traded this in more a whole world of those interconnected absolute truths and that's you say. It was unprecedented and not really duplicated. Since you even describe the Euclid laid the foundations for the world as we know it. This is where I'm going to challenge you because I wonder if that isn't slightly overstating things. Why wouldn't it be that it's any number of philosophers are thinkers that history have gifted us? What's your best argument for that? Particular statement that he actually the foundations for the world as we know it so first of all modern science as we know it today really started with people like Galileo like others saying the world is written in the language of geometry what he manned was beneath all this plethora of Of appearances like that we look around. We see all those. Things are geometrical at all lines that are not trade circles that are not round We say all those different color we see. We see all the different things he said. No this is just appearances because beneath that there is a deep order deep mathematical a deep geometrical order and if he wants to know the truth about the world we need to reveal this secret hidden order that undergrads often this beautiful rational necessary order so I would say and scientists today you know. There are different fields. But this goal of repealing the underlying mathematical order of the world and writing it down. Joe metrical or today said algebraic terms it is also a direct descendant of this notion. There is a secret here. There's a hidden secret here. This secret is mathematical. If we want to know the world if one understand they WANNA control the world? We need to understand the code and the code is geometry. And that's where he comes so at of course we know sciences plays need orbis role in the world as we know it science and technology and it all descended from this fundamental idea for. Amir geometry's importance to mathematics and science is only half the story. He takes an equal interest in subjective human experiences and how geometry plays a role in then I was always drawn to the question of interconnection between mathematics and in this case geometry but only geometry add broader social and cultural and and philosophical things because on the face of it Undergrad. Study History Mathematics and on the face of it. Those are complete opposites bite on the one hand. I mean mathematics everything we said about geometry perfect eternal unchanging rational. All that history is not a fact. History is a mess right one down fig after another. It's and yet. It is people who actually made mathematics. It wasn't God come down from Platonic Heaven. It is actually people with interest people with with concerns and I was always seeking the ways to reconnect those two ends and what I came to eventually after really thinking trying different things writing several books really but I realized that what is mathematics. Fundamentally Mathematics is the deepest order that humans believe. The world is saw coincidental. It's not just things happen to be this way. No this is the deepest order the one that you ought to argue that one plus one equals two. You cannot argue the sum of the angles of a triangle and stuff. That is the deepest order. Thought world has to conform to. This can't do it against and consequently what we say about this quarter what we think about about. This order has enormous implications about what we think the world is like and how we organize ourselves in this world at one of the main ways is without a doubt. Euclidean geometry perhaps more than any other way it is the geometry in what ways for the ancient Greeks? Can you tell us that? These ideas spilled into politics and society at the time at the time knocked all that much to some extent. I mean you can see it to some extent. For example we already mentioned that Euclid was patronized by great king. The most powerful King Ptolemy the first one of Alexander the Great's generals who've been establishes on Kingdom and he was one of the most powerful people in the world he patronized the great yarmouth other great Ajami daughters including polonius of Perga- archimedes of Syracuse are also patronized by great princes. Why is that because of the message because of the implied message of geometry? What does Yama Tree apply more than anything order? There is an order. There is one necessary absolute order in the world and also suggest that this order is hierarchical because we move step by step by step from those from those simple truth step by step by step to every it we follow from one to the next the next to the next at we say this is not just because Euclid says so Polonia says so this is because the world says so and nothing could be more appealing for the I hear of Syracuse and Salon. Then this message. The world has it has a fixed hierarchy. And Guess. Who's at the top of this hierarchy? That of course is the king of the. I was actually a general not of Royal Line of South trying to establish a kingdom. This is a very welcome message. The world is not chaotic. My rule is not random there is a deep order and my rule represents it so. I think there is a natural affinity between geometry and those kinds of arrangements. Yes uncertain times I think we must be path for the fact that the maybe some difficult times ahead there is going to be complete. Chaos tending to insurance a geometrical irresolvable uncontestable. It's hard to know whether the people who made that safe been truly believe that is the case you're listening to peace order and good geometry on ideas on. Cbc Radio One in Canada across North America on Sirius. Xm In Australia on RN and around the world at CBC DOT CA slash ideas. You can also hear ideas on the BBC listen APP or wherever you get your podcast. I'm not yet I'm Keith. Macarthur unlocking bryson's brain is a podcast about my son. The rare disease that keeps him from walking or talking Bryson's perfect. His life is really hard and our families. Search for cure. Oh my gosh. Maybe science ready for this. It's part memoir part medical mystery. We can do just about anything modifying. Dna Heart in my throat. Cure is controversial and locking brain. Subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. You clips masterwork. The elements contained thirteen books of rules. Definitions propositions postulates logic and of course proofs in later centuries in Europe the elephants became the Foundational School Textbook Education. Just wasn't education without Euclid elements. I'm in Ord Euclid is responsible for everything in the wide. Apparently this is all rico. Comey's I'm director of collections and public programs at the American Museum. Rica is an expert in Middle Eastern art for nearly a thousand years after the Greek and Roman Empire collapsed. It was in the Middle East that EUCLID. Geometry flourished both as a science and an art. There was a long long legacy of geometric art In the ancient wide going back all the way to ancient Egypt ancient Iraq and ancient Iran not to speak of course about the South Asian region which has a very very ancient history in these In this regard is where you can't really build anything respectable without knowing the mathematical principles of however everything fits together and sticks together. But then you also find Joe. Mitri is a decorative prensa per to adorn these buildings. Not simply because they look beautiful. Where practical but had a deep meaning behind them. Geometry is also a perfect metaphor for the bus or the universe. The eternity of the universe and the returning of the unit was to one point at the end of time within the understanding off of a face. So how does that play out? If you remember geometry add score and I'm sure you hate to just as much as I did. You had a compass and the compass and the ruler and the penser or the three items used so in order to create any geometrical pattern however complicated. What is the first thing you do? You Prick the paper with your campus. You Open the campus and you draw a soccer and then from the circuit with your ruler. You start dividing and creating different shapes that you can continue ad infinitum. So this act of pricking. The paper symbolizes the birth of the universe through God and the expansion of being of the cost most of the universe into its ever more intricate Infinite eternal pizzas if you imagine any geometric design. It's the geometric design. That's perfectly in harmony. That is repeatable Ad Infinitum depending how much you wanted to evolve and within it every single piece is important for the harmony off the whore but every single piece also relies on the harmony of the war so that for some philosophers really worked very where to to contemplate. God's perfection and and Hominy Rica fines as various observers. Do that European accounts of geometry's tale tend to leave out contributions by scientists from the Islamic world. The traditional narrative is one that to lead straight from ancient Rome and Greece to the Rene Sauce. Think that's a little bit simplistic especially in terms of the sciences. So when you talk about for example the invention of perspective. Which is something. Very much related to the rene sauce and that would very literally not have been possible without the scientific contributions of scholars from the southern Mediterranean. And in our conversation. One person that's very important to mention in that respect is if no Haysom who was a scholar in the tenth eleventh century who was born in Basra in southern Iraq educated in Dodd and then moved to Cairo and in Cairo he actually researched the physiology on science of the Eye and light and came to discover in the process. The camera obscure which of course also the forefather of our Modern Camera. And can you towns just briefly what the camera obscure? The Commerce obscure is a very simple mechanism which allows you which basically makes the I and through this experiment he discovered that the I receives light by the light reflecting of object and that was a very new discovery his experimentation and Observations he recorded in a book called Taba Manav the book of optics and this book was later translated into Latin around twelve hundred for the first time and then repeatedly ever after that and in Latin. This book became known as And People like Leonardo Da Vinci are to have been very well aware. How off book like me? Soms books you hod. Experts from the Islamic world many royal courts around the Mediterranean basin and you had Christian scholars actually going out to learn Arabic and read the sources as it were in. They are in their original Arabic language so a lot of contributions were made The contributions were recognized and then somehow got lost in the narrative. Thank you so much for your time. Meister Nama bye-bye Will Rica. Al Is Director of collections and public programs at the Con Museum in Toronto when Europeans in the Middle Ages Red Euclid. They read it in translation from Arabic. The Real Euclid was actually. It was Austin the early Middle Ages of the West. It was translated into Arabic preserved Arabic expanded upon Arabic and then it was translated back into Latin memorial historian. Amir Alexander tells the story of one of geometry's and the modern world's most important moments this setting tuscany fourteen thirteen or they're about fat. A young man by the name of Philip Brunelleschi. Who was a Florentine? The he conducted an experiment in front of the two most famous buildings in Florence. Then and now that is the Baptist three of Saint John and right across the plaza. What we know is a dual the Greek cathedral of Florence. I'm assuming you've been there. Oh Yes yes in the same spot. you know what. I was last there. I was not aware of the details of it but I did because I think we all started that spot you start at the entrance to the duomo. You look back and there. It is the the baptists say John Looming Tago Bite on the other side of the square so he stood there. He stood there and he conducted a strange experiments. Which was undoubtedly puzzling to the people at the time to some extent is puzzling. Actually to a story to this day he did. He had a painting in his hand. And the painting was you'd think it was like the painting of the Madonna and child or a the nunciature. That's paintings were no. It was a painting of guess. What Baptist. Actually the very same building that he saw across the plaza and it was a very elaborately very carefully drawn and in place of the skies. He had burnished silver there and then he had also a mirror in his hand inside. If you look very closely you could see that there was a little hole in the painting right in the middle of the front baptistery door. Brunelleschi took this painting. Hit his face with the painting with the painting itself pointing outwards towards the baptistery and then he took his mirror and he held it in front of the painting was looking through the hole and he could see the reflection of the painting which he was covering his face. And what are you know when you look at a reflection of a painting of the baptistery what you see is the baptist? So that's what he did. Which is undoubtedly a puzzling thing to do. Because if you really wants to see the Baptist Street let's take all that out and just look because it's right there so the question is what what's he doing. And what we know is that he was demonstrating the principles of linear perspective. How to recreate the three dimensional space that in the world and recreated on a flat two dimensional surface of the painting. He used those principle in the painting. The point of the exercise is that when you look through the Mirror if experiment is successful as we understand it was when you re removed the mirror and looks straight at the Baptist Street. You would see the same thing. He found the secret for reproducing. The three dimensional space on a flat surface. And how big a deal is that in itself. I think it's an interesting trick and painters. Were quick to pick up on it but what it does. Also it detects the deep geometry of space. That is a deep geometry that already exists in the world and translate it to a painting. A mirror produces that AFFEC- without any human interference. It is simply out there. This geometry is simply out there in nature and reproduces itself which means that there is this deep hidden geometry that pervades all of space pervades the world and what he managed to do is to extract it from this world of all our perception and say this is the geometric principle? This is what is going on here. You're using that as a kind of a revolutionary point yes it isn't a revolutionary point. Because as I said in the time of Plato for the Greeks for the most part John. Matry was beautiful. It was perfect. It was enormously impressive endlessly praise. But it wasn't of this world. There are some particular fields such as music such as optics where it could be used and could reveal certain things but for the most part as we know from Plato as we know from Aristotle the world is sort of qualitative kind of you know. Nothing is perfect. Everything is sort of confused. We can make sort of generalization but there never kind of perfect geometry is for the heavens. What happens here? What Brunelleschi does which becomes clear in the years of fellow is that he brings geometry down from the heavens brings it down to the world and he says no this is not just the heaven the world itself as we know in the world that we live in is deeply deeply geometrical and you can see that you can see it of course in art in the this there is a sudden dramatic change in the kind of art that is produced between say the fourth to the fourteenth and the fifteenth thirteen hundred and the fourteen that suddenly space is not just a kind of a line surface. It has depth right. Everyone is located in a particular point in this deep geometrical space you can see it in beautiful maps as well. Yeah so we gain a third dimension in art. Yeah Yeah we get. We gained a third dimension and we gained the notion that there is a deep geometrical structure and that we are moving in this in the space. I'll be this whole notion that we say we live in three dimensional space. That is because we are so deeply imbued with Java tree. That's not something that we're bored with this idea. Their coordinates that was simply not the case before then. But what what you see. Renaissance are signs. Mapping into is suddenly space becomes geometrical. This ideal becomes right here all around us. We must stop in France of course cooking year on the courts and gardens of the French kings in the sixteen hundred. Zero Emir sees this. As the high point of European faith geometry's power and Political Valley the Kings of France were looking to create a unified state and they were encounter e either ormuz difficulties much of the second. Half of the sixteenth century was consumed with civil war religious wars not to mention rivalries between great princes and so on in this world. The notion of a geometrical order was like a shining be could of light the world is not just. The rule is not just a bad or of just suppressing the latest uprising or or making sure massacring your opponents before they were you was lot there is something deeper here fixed eternal beautiful hierarchical. That is what the rule of the French kings is really about. That is truly the source of power and so we find that actually in the time of the deepest crisis for the French monarchy in the in the sixteenth century. Those ideals of geometrical of fundamental geometric order are emphasized and reemphasized and reemphasized more and more at a time when the king has almost nothing else. No power low prestige. The king would still find a way to put on enormous displays of Jim metrical order. So if there's a place that really shows Francis Obsession with the message contained in geometric order. What would that be although of course would be? There is nothing no place like for CY. It is the embodiment of this. Ideally that it was of course it was created by the king who said they thought said. Well I am the state and who really perfected this notion of an absolutist rule with the king and the king alone at the very top and that is and he created this whole world at for cy to emphasize this point. So what is the design of a garden? A geometric design of of a garden at the time. Tell the average French citizen. The garden for cy clearly has many many messages. Some of those messages. Were always there because the garden was a perfectly ordered world. It was not the the macy world of the Outside. It was perfectly arranged world in which everything from every blade of grass of Bush person animal. Everything has its God. Given place in a grand scheme of things. Everything was interdependent. Everything was fixed in his place and there was no way to dispute it. Your place in the world is not because you'll be punished by the king or if you're a great noble executed or whatever or you're afraid or because no it's there because it is the deepest order in its fundamental order of the world that you would be exactly there. That is where you belong. What what's left of that legacy? Da Think I guess what you would describe geometrical determinism? You know of the gardens of Versailles in the capital city of of your country in Washington. I mean beyond the visual. Oh I think it's very much there. The optimism that we'll find we'll find the perfect order. That is simply. The natural. Rational order been seriously question but even despite all the doubts that people have about the country about it's politics and certainly about there being one necessary universal truth. I think we're not living in an age when people this early. Strive to that. We're far far from it. I am amazed by the power of this. I mean if I think of Washington Washington. Today there's competing tribes of Liberals Conservatives Democrats Republicans where political animosity and I would even say mutual contempt. A really. Rife something still holds this thing together. And that is the carefully planned balance this geometrical the deep geometrical skeleton of this order but still it's still functions and still hold it together and I think I think impressively so. What do you think landfall would say if he were viewing? Today's Washington given the fact that the it's such a polarized world and and you know accommodates many many many truths while in lived at the time and I guess there are others. In of course in American history of the history of all countries that was very divided along different lines for sure but was very divided and he and his patrons Washington. We were very much aware of the danger of this whole project. This whole enterprise falling apart they would look at what's happening now and he said this is what it was designed for. There are times. Perhaps the skeleton was not as necessary because there was more there was more unity perhaps and times of course also worse you know like the civil war after off but there are times when there is more more unity more cooperation more mutual understanding. Where perhaps you don't have to rely on this harsh geometrical skeleton but when when push comes to shove with you actually need it. We still have their this deep geometrical order. That will hold us together whether we like it or not. That's what it's designed for and I think in a way. You know. Lynn funds vindicated. There's a twist in the tale of geometry. Our press secretary gave alternative facts to that. But the point Regan alternative to the idea of a perfect incontestable. Pure truth has kind of gone out of fashion and geometry. Carry some of the blame for that for maybe promising. Us Too much. This is a system built to last entire world of interconnected try and beings can actually arrive at absolute and do through mathematical reasoning. A lot of people put their trust in it all of the first year of Syracuse and nothing could be more appealing. This is the absolute necessary incontestable. Well if was then. It was questioned in the nineteenth century. We suddenly have this remarkable field of non Euclidean geometry. What could that possibly be? Non Euclidean geometry can possibly be a lot of different things and we won't go through them all now but at the broadest level it means any system of geometric logic based on different rules and principles than the ones Euclid used for instance euclid imagined his two dimensional triangles sitting on a flat plane where the angles inside them could be measured but another geometry could base her rules on triangles drawn on the surface of a balloon or the ring. Don't change the context or bend the space and suddenly you need a new set of rules. And the possibilities become infinite. That is a very disturbing thing in a stunning blow to this whole idea that we can rely on geometry to finally find order in the chaotic world. But now you can't buy really truly following the principles of Jami. What we find is that we can have included geometry and we can have a million other job not a million infinite number of geometry's that are completely incompatible if you could in geometry but they could be the perfectly valid which means there could be a world where they are true for intellectual connections between mathematics and broader society. I would say we're definitely living in a non nucleated in world it which betty different truth incompatible coexist not always hurt mony asleep and the belief that we can all by using reason. We can all come together and decide okay. This is absolutely. We all agree on this. That is an idea that is a very much doubted. Today I wanted to what extent it is a blow to people like you who greatly admire ideal world that you could create it. Oh well I'm I'm fascinated by that world. I'm fascinated by the ambition and the power of that claim. I mean what could be grander simply by reason? We can discover this deep fundamental order that we all live in in that rules assault whether we know it or not Grand Bishen that is and what power and what influence and what impact it has but there are. There are certainly a lot of credit from the beginning. Also criticisms especially when Joe Metric order became associated with the rule of utilize powerful king. Louis the fourteenth and his soul is so rule clearly some people sought to distance themselves than I admire them to in England. For example they very consciously developed an aesthetic of English Gardens. There was self consciously opposed to those geometry's of verse I and they did it for aesthetic. Did it for political reasons. We don't want that single unified necessary order. We want some give you know we want to find out what goes on in the world on our role and then find our own order in our own. Good time there is no single unified hierarchy that we're all subject to I have sympathy for that as well but it raises the question of whether geometry the original geometry euclid geometry. Actually it was never going to live up to that. Promise of presenting this perfect world is it. In a way a letdown. It never did offer that perfection never did offer absolutely true. Never did offer that perfection. That was even known everything I said about. Geometry was about being perfect necessary and so on was what geometry aspired to be what is perhaps came very close to being. But you have a feeling for it as you have a film. The other of the Greek assertions like your read Plato could really live our world according to those of pure rational principles while probably probably not but what a grand ambition and what a powerful ambition what deep influence it has on us when we try to put that into practice. I have the same feeling for euclid as well. The question then is given all of that. What can we draw from that world of geometry today the how relevant is to our world that perfect world that Euclid see? I think it's a world. I think that's the word that will go away. I mean it's a world that like it was attacked in many different ways. Non Euclidean geometry is perhaps the most powerful blow precisely because of his founded on geometry. It's off from outside. It comes from the heart of the matter and yet I think this need that we do have for things that are not just up to us that are not random that are really something in the world that we can hold onto and believe it and say yes this is not just. I'm saying that because either because I'm afraid to say otherwise or because I was brought in a particular culture with particular beliefs in particular tradition in particular history. We feel like we need more than that. Because we feel like you need something something deeper to hold onto and that is why I think geometry retains retains a hold on us and the book talking about with. No oxy's two week in Paris Great Geometrical Boulevard. That was the But has been expanded on the one hand to all the way to La Defense across the San the other hand back to the Louvre where there is now a statue of Louis. The fourteen it is still added to on every generation wants the imprint. On it it is still are at the heart of one of the great cities in the world and say s there is fundamental order that we are still part of and that we cannot dismiss. And I think that's true in Paris. That's stream Washington DC. I think there's something about it you know. When when people attack this notion of universal unchanging truth? You know they always. They're always implicitly also attacking clearly in geometry. Because somehow even its opponent cannot do without it. Thank you very much. Thank you so much enjoyed it. You're listening to peace order and good geometry. The episode was produced by Tom. Howell Amir Alexander's book on the history of geometry is called proof how the world became geometrical. You can find out more information at our website. Cbc DOT CA slash ideas there. You can also see. Examples of geometric from the CON- Museum in Toronto a technical production. Danielle do Valent Austin. Pomeroy web producer. Lisa you so senior producer. Nikola Lunch Greg. Kelly is the executive producer of ideas. And Nala I add for more. Cbc PODCASTS GO TO CBC DOT CA slash podcasts.

Washington DC King Euclid Euclid Cure Plato Howell Amir Alexander Greece Amir Alexander United States Joe Metric White House Dc Bryson Amir geometry America Washington Monument Egypt Louvre
Secrets of the Universe Revealed!

Science Talk

36:39 min | 2 years ago

Secrets of the Universe Revealed!

"Welcome to scientific American science talk posted on may twenty third two thousand nineteen. I'm Steve Mirsky on this. But calculus, just says we're going to imagine we can cut space and time in anything else as finely as we want all the way to infinitesimal size. And although we don't believe it's true insensitive physics. It does give fantastically. Good approximations to things that we see about curved shapes and about motion in the world in about all kinds of change that Stephen struggle is professor of applied mathematics at Cornell University, his last book in two thousand twelve was the joy of x and his new book is infinite powers. How calculus reveals the secrets of the universe the mention of the word calculus. So chills of horror up your spine, please don't leave this discussion is really for you as much as for anyone who loved taking their calculus. Course. I spoke destroy got cinnamon Hatton department when he visited. From upstate a few weeks ago. So as always also enjoy the occasional sound of first responders vehicles going about their business in our Oltra, exciting metropolis. People listening to us are playing an MP three and in the book you talk about MP threes exists, because of calculus, Yata one just one of the visit infinitude, if you will, of practical examples of what calculus has gotten us. So, you know, just real quick. How did how did calculus lead to an MP three? Well, the thing is that we've got all this data, you know that if you if the tried to play every note, and every little fraction of the sound that you've recorded when you record digital music. It's those files are going to be way too big. So there's a, a trick somehow of compressing them. That's what MP three is all about data, compression, and so just like J peg for images MP three for music you have to somehow, eliminate the redundant information, so that all that's left is the part that you want to listen to and figuring out the optimal way to do that is where calculus can come. Because one of the great things that calculus can do is find optimal solutions to problems, the best or most efficient or cheapest. And so, in essence, what's going on is we're fitting some kind of structure, or smooth curve, or something through the data and then throwing out the parts that we, we don't need to be listening to it is a much more reduced compressed form of information. Right. And therefore, you're taking up with, with this podcast, mo-, maybe thirty megabytes, maybe whereas if it was not compressed, it would be may be six hundred megabytes at something. We all have intuition for now because, you know, on your computer, you often have a choice of saving something at low rez or medium, or best, you know, when we send pictures to our friends over Email. So I think we all now, kind of have a feeling of what it looks like. And it's interesting that part of what's going on is also Uman perceptual limitations that it's not it's not just about. The math. This is also about the psychology and psycho physics of human ability to perceive differences in sounds or in color levels, or, you know, so it's a really interesting subtle problem that goes beyond math into psychology to. Yeah. But before we get to any of that. Let's let's start at the beginning. What is calculus, and I'm just about old enough to remember it being referred sometimes to the calculus and you talk about that in just a what like one paragraph in the book about how it's now just calculus the calculus. Yeah. Yeah. It's true. The name. So it began as the calculus, live Nazis, the person Gottfried, Wilhelm live knits, late sixteen hundreds often considered one of the co inventors of calculus with Isaac Newton and he referred to at first as my calculus. My method of calculating answers to certain very challenging at the time almost impossible problems. So that went from my calculus, the calculus that I used to eventually now we just drop all of that, and it's just calculus. But anyway, as far as what is it g of so many different ways to say what it is? It's it's a branch of math. That's concerned with change. I would say, that's the fundamental point that, you know, you think about geometry the triangles on the page or the squares or the circles, they're not moving around. They're not expanding and contracting their static objects and in calculus, were interested in motion and change, especially continuous change not jerky, jumpy change, but smooth or continuous change, and how to describe it. So that kind of disembodied way of describing, what calculus is that mostly what it's concerned with its change? But who cares about change? Well, you know, changes what, what makes the world go round change is, is the real great mystery of our existence. That, of course, there's an old adage, that nothing is constant accept change. And so that's the kind of a big fact about the world that Raines, one day at sunny. The next day, the market goes up and down. If you get a speeding ticket, you are concerned about change your change. You mean because of your change in your Bank account or? You, you have violated a, a limit of the change in position versus the change in time. Well, that's right. Right. So speed is an example of the kind of change. I'm talking about the rate of change of your position with respect to time is what we call speed. And so sure we could talk about speed velocity acceleration. Those are all physics concepts of change. We could also be talking about the change in viral population in a person with HIV you know, if we look in their bloodstream and measure their so called viral load, or the T cell count to see about their immune cells. So there's all kinds of things changing as well as oscillating electric fields and magnetic fields that give rise to propagation of electromagnetic waves that were taking advantage of every time we use wireless communication, I took calculus Naung longtime ago. And as soon as I saw the, the word calculus on the cover of the book I quizzed. Myself. What did I remember about calculus and the first thing that came to mind was the area under the curve? So why was that in my head? That is the hardest part of the calculus. Course that people take I so right? We do two main parts of calculation in the first course there's derivatives and integral, that's the jargon. So students remember derivative as the slope of the curve, and the integral as the area under the curve, and raises the question, why are we spending so much time on curves and areas and slopes of curves, and it's because curves give us a universal language for describing change were so used to drawing graphs. Now of, you know, some variable, y as a function of acts or position as a function of time. And we draw this as a as a picture, we draw access. You know, the horizontal axis for X or for time of vertical access for whatever position or something else, that's changing as a function of extra time. And, and that's a cartesian plane. That'd be the cartesian plane in the book. You talk about high cart, and for Matt. Yes. And they're, they're kind of spat in really wouldn't when we're on a cartesian plane. It's really more of what for Matt came up with it, Israel, yet, it's an interesting quirk of history. That dead farm is the, the greater mathematician. I mean they're both very good. But. Analytic geometry, which is really the part of math at deals with this x y plane is, is for Maas creation, as much as Descartes may be more. So I'm pronouncing it wrong. It's for my of the French wicks, Vermont. Card so good this Carter's. So anyway, back to the area under the curve. That's the, the harder part. It is harder. Yeah. I mean so finding the slope involves this operation called the derivative in pretty much every kid who takes calculus. And by the way, there's about a million students in America each year taking calculus. It's a big began to price everybody can do derivatives. That's not hard. It's very mechanical very routine. You just have to memorize a few formulas and not make mistakes, and you can do it, but doing, integral 's which amounts to doing the opposite of derivatives finding anti derivatives in the jargon. That's that turns out to require much more, ingenuity, so. Yeah, it's harder. You probably remember it because you spent weeks and weeks on it you learn things called, Trig, substitution, partial, fractions, algebraic substitution. Maybe this is the point to jump off to say that, you know, so many people have. This experience of calculus, as this endless series of procedures tricks, and they don't really know what, why am I doing all this? What do I need the area under a curve for? So that's what I'm trying to do, infinite powers as explain, for instance, the area under a curve, if it's concentration of a drug medicinal drug in your bloodstream that area under the curve is a measure of how toxic you know, you're looking at the total impact of that drug when you look at the area under the curve, and so when pharmacologist need to figure out toxic levels, they're interested in the area under a curve, when they're measuring concentration of this drug in the bloodstream or if you were, you know, thinking about your Bank account, the area under a curve if of daily balance versus time that, that would tell you something about your accumulated wealth. So that's the thing area under a curve has to do with accumulation. Right. Because if you're, let's talk about the drug example, and toxically, you're after. Take into account. How long the drug is going to be in your bloodstream, right? So that's why that area under a curve is such an important factor versus just the initial dosage. That's right. So the concentration is important, but knowing the concentration for how much time is really what counts and so that ends up being an area, and you'll always see the half-life of a drug. If you look at the, the tiny little, incredibly folded information that comes with drugs. And so that that'll tell you, you, can you can pretty much do a back of the envelope. Calculation on how long you can have a significant amount of that stuff still in your system. Right. Yeah, exactly. So it's very important for understanding chemotherapy and lots of other real world applications. And so, what's, I mean, that's I guess the point about the area under a curve that it's this it's like a standard currency, you can compute problems, whether it's about pharmacology or finance or motion of planets or whatever. It happens to be you put it all into this, universal framework of, of curves in their areas in their slopes. And now you're talking about the two main types of change that can occur that answer questions like how fast or how much okay, so the how much questions that's about integral. That's accumulation how fast that's about rate of change. That's about velocity. Or if it's economics, it's about marginal return or something like that. People who never took calculus, I wanna comfort them. And let them know that they can still really enjoy this book. The examples are accessible. Even if you never took Alice if you took out curious, you can have a big advantage because you can look at the examples and they're familiar if you never took calculus, you can get through them if you feel like putting in the work, but even if you don't wanna put in the work, there's so much interesting history in the book that I think it's, it's still a really terrific read. And one of the things you do. Historically is take away the notion that calculus, just came into the minds of Newton and live, knits, and from then on, we how calculus, you put it you put it on fittingly, a continuum going all the way back to Archimedes, and even before, but Archimedes gets a lot of credit. In your book. Yeah. Well, thank you. I mean, I'm glad that you see it that way because I do think it's often told as Newton and live knits, and then you know, while we have calculus and it's really far from the truth. I do wanna show it as a collective achievement of humanity which is how I see it. It's something that's taken about two thousand or twenty five hundred years depending how you count it for us to solve these three great mysteries of dealing with curves and describing them understanding riddles about motion and change. And I mean those are taking those two different problems motion as one kind of change change of position and more general kinds of change. So those three great mysteries. We've been after for, you know, like I say, more than two thousand years, and I see our committees as as great as any of the geniuses in the whole story. I really think he's incredibly deep and also poignant. I find him very poignant character because he so far ahead of his time that as you say in the book was there ever anyone? More ahead of his time than Archimedes. I don't see how there could be. I mean, he really has all the ideas of calculus, but he's playing with both arms behind his back because he doesn't even have decimals, you know, think of what Roman numerals would be like, if you had to do some complicated arithmetic problem, he's not using Roman numerals, but a Greek version of the same idea. So, so decimals you know, that has a wait for like almost millennium to get invented in India, and then eventually make its way to Europe in the middle ages. So he doesn't have any of that he doesn't have algebra because that's only going to be invented in the Middle East in its form, that we recognize today, actually the version of algebra, you see in Baghdad in eight hundred AD even that doesn't look like our algebra, because it's still all with words and sentences instead of x and y the x wise, only that only comes in, in Italy, like in thirteen or fourteen hundred year. Remember those word problems about if you're on a train to Chicago moving at seventy eight miles an hour and you're on the train for an hour and a half. You know did you bring your lunch with you? So the all of math was like that. That's right. It was nothing but word problems in the old days except for geometry, which was for the Greeks the sort of ultimate standard in reasoning and careful arguments and all that. And then and you know, but it's not like it all began with the Greeks we have people in Mesopotamia and, you know, the Sumerians ancient. That's why in Baghdad. And, and they created a lot of the ideas that, then ultimately helped set the stage for Archimedes. So I do want people to see this as a story of the world accomplishment, and actually both halves of the world. Men and women. There are women in the story at least four of them I tell about their contributions. Mary Cartwright in England who helped with radar and helped helped in the battle of Britain. Sofia sofia? Well, yes, they're so fi Germain, a young French mathematician, who is key in the development of our understanding of waves and elastic materials, and then Sophia Kovalevsky and Russia who did fantastic work on the limits of what calculus could explain in, in certain kinds of equations, that we call differential equations, and someone that a lot of your listeners will know, Katherine Johnson from the movie and the book Hidden Figures who still alive so. And, you know who brought on Alan shepherd, and John Glenn safely back into the earth into reentry where the famous storage on Glenn was coming back until she check the trusted her with his life. Yeah. So there, there are many, many more that we could talk about, but anyway, it is a story of, of the world contributions to this fantastic body of knowledge for thinking about change. And so I did you know, we've already hinted at about. I wanted to clarify. It's not just. Talking to itself. This gave us microwave ovens gave us radar and television and cat scans for people with, you know, possibly with blood clots or brain tumors. And we could go on and on I tried to explain all that the calculus was a key enabler in all of these things. What didn't do any of it by itself? I mean you need technology you need science, but, but there was calculus, helping with all of these things you talked about the microwave. There's an experiment, you can do at home with grated cheese and a flat plate. And you could compute the speed of light. Yeah. You can, if you want to do this, you can like you say could lay out a plate of grated cheese. Or anything else that will melt nicely in that can lay flat some people like to use chocolate. So, yeah, he put it in your microwave. There will be a little probably a panel on the microwave tells you what frequency the microwaves are. And then when you oh, it's important to take out the rotating plate. You don't. The turn table in there. So you're gonna put the this plate of save melted or grated cheese in there. And then, as you know, they're going to be hot spots and, and less hot spots in the microwave. So you'll see I think thirty seconds will probably be enough. You'll see really scorched melted. Places those hot spots. And there will be a certain distance between neighboring hotspots and that will give you that will reflect the wavelength of the microwaves now it's not exactly a whole wavelength that's going to be the distance from one hot spot to the next, which if you picture a wave that goes up and comes down and then goes back up like a sine wave both the trough and the crest of that wave. They're both hotspots because their maximum amplitude excursion of the wave so that distance will be half the wavelength. Anyway, if you multiply the figure out what the wavelength is you have to double that distance multiplied by the frequency, and that will give you the speed of light. And it comes out really well actually it works within a few percent. It just made me think of how much is always going on around us that were not really paying attention to. And then all of a sudden may be it reveals itself just this morning. Somebody was trying to optimize how they could pack things in the trunk of their car, and I was like, well that's a packing problem. I was just reading about that. Somebody else was again this morning was talking about following surgery was talking about the issue of walking down the stairs, and the, the force on the surgically repaired hip, and I was thinking, well, that's that's F equal. May that's the second derivative. That's also in the in the book, and it would jocking about how if she lost five, pounds, it would what the effect would be on the force that, she has to deal with, is, so it's, it's, it's all if I hadn't been reading the book, I wouldn't have thought in those terms, but because I was reading the book, holes, and those were like, oh, these are examples in the book. Well, it's an interesting thing that the more science. We know the more ways we have of looking at the world and not just science. I mean, I'm sure there are artists who look at the world and see design ever Scher, you know, our architects, and you could think about that all these questions from an architecture point of view. Well, likewise, you can from calculus perspective. And once you know how to see the world through that lens you will start seeing it everywhere. So. I'm trying to help people. See it that way at least for the course of reading this book. So one of the key things if not the key thing was the willingness for practitioners of calculus, or precalculus to think, in terms of infinite tesimony small slices or an infinite number of something, including the infinitesimally small slices. And for some mathmetician 's that was hideous. True. So that's one of the things that Newton in live. Knits change. Was they said I don't care if it's aesthetically pleasing to you, the answers it gives are always, right. Well, yes, it's, it's complicated. I mean, live natade that very practical attitude that you're describing he was interested in the philosophical side of things. He'd beat was incredible genius who was a linguist a philosopher a diplomat and. On the side, he decided to become one of the best mathematicians in the world. No, he's really one of the greats and a character to a good writer, he seems like he someone you'd like to hang around with from what I can tell he seems like he was a fun had good sense of humor contrasting with Newton who I think you wouldn't wanna spend anytime with really difficult, secretive paranoid person. But, you know, we could talk about why like everybody has a hard childhood, okay? Well, believing Newton aside from minute, so yeah, the use of Infinity, the strategic use of Infinity to solve hard problems. And with this amazing construct of infinitesimal, which is itself, this paradoxical idea of something that's smaller than anything you can imagine. But it's not nothing. You know in physics. We don't believe in such things there is no, we, we think there's a smallest well USA. Call him atoms. Now, we think there are some atomic particles. Obviously, there are and they're still debates about, what's the smallest physical thing is, you know, superstring or an and can space speech opt arbitrarily finally is there a small? The scale at which space is kind of granular and candy. So anyway, these are deep issues in physics to worry about that. People studying quantum, gravity are worrying about, but calculus, just says this is in our imagination, we're going to imagine we can cut space and time in anything else as finely as we want all the way to infinitesimal size. And although we don't believe it's true incensio physics. It does give fantastically good approximations to things that we see about curved shapes about motion in the world about all kinds of change. So vibe knits, had this attitude, that these are useful fictions. He thought of his infinitesimal says what he called fictions of the mind and he said, I don't worry about whether they're real or not their bookkeeping devices for me. They enable me to do calculations and free, my mind for more creative thought. Whereas Newton was more concerned about the rigorous mathematical issue of are there really infinitesimal were not an eventually Newton didn't use infinitesimal. He started by using them. But because he was very concerned with convincing people about his great book, the Principia that he had figured out the system of the world. He wanted to be as on a salable as possible. And so he ended up using a ratio of infinitesimal a tiny change divided by another tiny change. And that thing is finite. That's not infinitesimal ratio of two. Infinitesimal Ziff dun-rite. This is like when we take calculus today. We talk about delta, Y over, delta, X as delta, X goes to zero that ratio can stay finite. It's not infinitesimal, even though it's a ratio of infinitesimal until Newton did things that way later in his career. And it's today, the concept we call the derivative whereas whereas live, it's worked with the differential, which gives us the word differential calculus. Differential, is the little D. Y. The infinitesimal thing or the DX. So it's another kind of irony is will always think probably outside of Germany. Anyway. We think Newton I for calculus and the calculus that we do is really the live knits version. That's true. Yeah, it is all of that is true. Newton is definitely before aliveness. He's about ten years ahead, but, but it's complicated because he doesn't publish he so secretive and live knits. Not only does publish, but he also has this whole army of followers, and disciples and they promote his ideas, which are very elegant, and that, that's what really catches on. And it's only now that we have Newton's manuscripts many of which thousands of pages of which were never published that we can see just how far ahead Newton really was. And I think I mean from my reading of this Newton is in a whole different league as a mathematician. Lightness is very good. He's one of the best in the world, but Newton is one of the best of all time and you know who could match him. I think Archimedes is in the same league. There's another guy I wish I had time and space to write about in the book, name oiler who I think is comparable, but there are only three or four, you know, you some mathematicians would say Gauss may maybe Riemann. So I've knits is definitely not first string. He's in my head. He's, he's on the second team. But he's, you know, a second team all the team of all time we'll world. He's all world. You don't get the remodel pitch to ninety while Ramon, doesn't make any real appearance. I know Ramona's fantastic, this is one of the heartbreaks of writing a book. You wanna keep going, but there are deadlines, and there's exhaustion. And there's a family saying stopped writing. You know, like in calculus, we have this idea of approaching a limit where you keep getting halfway there. Yeah. That's what it felt like in my house. I was getting getting a little closer but never getting there. And that's not acceptable in real maestro gets Paroda. You have to get there. And stop at some point, I just remember remand psalms introduction to calculus as the, the tiny distances while Ramon sums are the, the modern way. I mean, one of the modern ways of making sense of the integral and in an ideal world, I would have spent more time on them because the story of Riemann is very dramatic. He's very smart. Wonderful guy dies young forty years old gave us so much that, that change the way we think about everything. But I don't know what to tell you feel bad. I wish I had it's a finite book. It's Vinai book. My favorite topic as listeners longtime listeners, probably figured out his visionary biology and you referred to the invention of calculus as the Cambridge explosion of math. So I thought that was worth unpacking bit. Well, so the Cambridge explosion as it's usually defined has to do with this pivotal event in the history of biological evolution where for I don't know something like three and a half billion years. The earth is dominated by single celled, organisms. Something like the bacteria of today, may be like the archea so very simple microbes, but they're alive and they're doing very well. Thank you very much for three and a half billion years. And then something happens somehow, life starts to become multicellular and this transition to giving rise to modern day. Multicellular organisms is, is the Cambridge explosion where you. Suddenly start to see all kinds of life forms. Some of which even can follow is, you know, and we see life exploring every possible niche and every possible morphology, and it's like the world suddenly really comes alive in this visible way, and happens very quickly in matter of just a few million years, which like blink in inev- Lucien, every time. So calculus is a similar thing in the history of math that you have these primordial life forms in math, which are kinda, like numbers, and shapes and simple word problems. And then it's like that for a long time. But then when calculus and the math of change comes on the scene, and algebra meets geometry in analytic geometry that sets the stage for this explosion of calculus, and ever since then we have all these modern life forms, which have calculus names in than, like analytic geometry is first one, but, but there's analytic number theory, where we apply calculus to the theory of prime numbers and. Other numbers or differential geometry, where we use calculus, analyze smooth surfaces, and even higher dimensional things that we can't visualize later play a role in Einstein's, general relativity theory of gravity, and the cosmos, as a whole so anyway, modern math begins with calculus. And then it's been three hundred fifty years of exploring its implications. So that's why calculus is the first course you take in college. It's not the pinnacle, it's the beginning of the Cambrian explosion of math. You talk in the book about you take this one to maybe you take out his three and then there are other math courses you can take differential, equations. But if they were being labeled sort of more conventionally, you'd be taking calculus. Four calculus, five six. I think you go to think you say calculus, thirty eight something I mean, with all due respect to the algebraic people out there. I mean it is true that. Some of these subjects are not offshoots of calculus. So there is an algebraic stream that comes out of a different tradition in math about solving equations, and dealing with numbers in their generalization so that I guess is not so much the child of calculus. But there is a lot of calculus, based math, the ones you mentioned complex analysis ordinary and partial differential, equations flurry analysis differential topology differential geometry. So we could definitely go. Yeah. You I mean, they're all if you don't know calculus, you. Can't do. I'd say eight or nine tenths of the whole curriculum. And if I remember right if you do matrix algebra, you can get the same results with certain partial differential. Right. You're revealing your chemistry background there. Because in the beginnings of quantum mechanics in the nineteen twenties. Heisenberg had a way of doing it with matrices, which were fairly new fangled objects at the time. So he had his so-called matrix mechanics for figuring. Out energy levels in atoms. And then Schrodinger had a different way with wave mechanics, using partial differential, equations his so-called, Schrodinger equation. And they kept getting the same answers and it turned out, they were the same theory written, two different ways. So that's why we have showed injure questioned not Heisenberg. Whatever you'd call it. Well, there there are there are. Yeah. Matrix mechanics is, is a little because it's depends where you come from. But if you're used to calculus tradition tro, dinger's theory looks very natural. But for the people who are more algebraic, there are still matrix mechanics out there. But, but they've all been absorbed into one big quantum theory. And you understand all these different points of view is revealed to want to say to well, I wanted to go back to something that you brought up. So people tend to think of calculus, as very difficult part of math, and it's certainly is for many high school and college students who are taking it. A lot of people have bad memories of their calculus. Course they're also people who never took calculus, because they were scared of it or thought it was going to be terrifying are above them in some way. Those are the readers. I have in mind. I mean, I'm not writing it for other mathematicians. I think other mathematicians I hope we'll get something out of the history or maybe some surprising applications that they weren't aware of. But for everybody else a. Ersan was just generally curious person who's heard of calculus, their whole life doesn't really know what it is. Or why it matters? I'm talking to you. You know, that's who I'm really writing for. And so I'm intending it as an act of friendship. I wanna share this, when I think of as really a beautiful said, of ideas, it's, it's human creativity of the highest calibre along with the music and poetry, that, that people have create. It's also fun. There are a lot of funny stories there are wonderful conflicts bitter rivalries at very dramatic. So I think if you don't know the story of calculus, and what it's done for the world, you're missing one of the great human sagas, right there with the story of evolution or relativity, or quantum theory, or ideas about Justice and democracy. I mean, it's one of the world changing sets of ideas. So, I think anybody really ought to know about it, and trying to make it as much fun as easy ride as possible. And if you read the book, you'll hear about how these. Scientific and mathematical thoughts influence, the way, Jefferson wrote the beginning of the declaration of independence. Absolutely true. Right. I mean Jefferson is as a product of his time. I mean, the beginning of the enlightenment is a direct result of Isaac Newton showing that the world is not just higgledy-piggledy haphazard random goings on that, that if you know, the laws of nature, and those laws do exist with calculus, you can make predictions you can see into the future. I mean, in his case it meant you could see where palest comet is going to be fifty years from now. You can predict the tides you can understand what the moon is gonna do. You can think about a ball flying through the air and how high it's going to go or how long till it hits the ground. I mean millions of things that can be explained with Newton's laws and his law of gravity, but that idea that nature is predictable, and not just one crazy thing after another, which people more or less. Thought forever, that's change in how we look at the world. And how we live in the world and gives people like Jefferson, the idea that even in the sphere of human life and government, that there are laws, so when he begins the declaration of independence in the famous preamble. He he talks about we hold these truths to be self evident that all men are created equal, and so on. And so, the language is very careful there when he says, we hold these truths to be self evident, that's the same language that Euclid uses at the beginning of Euclid zealots the, the textbook on geometry from three hundred BC the self evident truths refer to the axioms of geometry that you cannot question. And then you build the theorems from logic starting with those axioms Newton, does the same thing in his Principia, except for him, the axioms are things like laws of motion, and gravity. And he then derives consequences from those using logic, and they predict what's happening in the world. Not just in his mind. So Jefferson's trying mimic that age old tradition of you start with the self evident truths. And then you have inescapable conclusions which in his case was that we have the right we the colonies have the right to several ourself from this tyrant in England. And we know it's really true. Because Newton and, and Euclid were great heroes of Jefferson. I'm not making this stuff up. You can see Jefferson's own writings, to his friend in letters to John Adams, after they're both no longer president. He says, you know, they're like two old men. Look back on their lives. But he says, I've, I've given up newspapers for I think he says, who is at Herodotus and through cities Newton, and Euclid Newton, and you'll Euclid, that is he's thinking about these timeless historians and scientists and mathematicians. He says, I've given up newspapers for these guys. And I find myself much happier. And I think that's good advice for. Don't read the newspaper so much read stuff that's been around for at least a few hundred years, maybe. Well, maybe these are timeless pleasures and insights that really won't change with the news cycle. That's it for this episode. Get your science news at our website, WWW dot sign of American dot com, where you can watch a short video of highlights from an hour long panel in April at the National Academy of sciences, that feature ten Nobel and Calveley laureates in a variety of fields. You can find it in our blogs section and follow us on Twitter. We'll get a tweet whenever a new item hits the website. Our Twitter name is at Siam for scientific American science talk. I'm Steve Mirsky. Thanks clicking on us.

Euclid Newton Steve Mirsky Archimedes Matt Stephen England Cornell University Jefferson Ramon cinnamon Hatton Oltra infinitude Twitter Euclid Middle East National Academy of sciences Vermont professor
Some Thoughts Concerning Education ( 162-168), by John Locke

Harvard Classics

16:54 min | 4 months ago

Some Thoughts Concerning Education ( 162-168), by John Locke

"Some thoughts concerning education by john locke section one hundred sixty two as soon as he can speak english. Tis time for him to learn some other language. This nobody doubts of when french french's proposed and the reason does because people are accustomed to the right way of teaching that language which is by talking into children in constant conversation. And not by grammatical rules. The latin tongue would easily be taught the same way if his tutor being constantly with him would talk nothing else to him and make him answer still in the same language but because french is a living language and to be used more in speaking that should be. I learned that the pliant organs of speech might be accustomed to a do formation of those sounds and he get the habit of pronouncing french. Well which is the harder to be done the longer it is delete section one hundred sixty three when he can speak and read french. Well which in this method is usually in a year or two. He should proceed to latin which is a wonder parents when they have had the experiment in french should not think ought to be learned the same way by talking and reading only care has to be taken whilst he is learning these foreign languages by speaking and reading nothing else with his tutor that he do not forget to read english which may be preserved by his mother or somebody else hearing him. Read some chosen parts of the scripture or other english book every day section one hundred sixty four latin. I look upon his absolutely necessary to a gentleman and indeed custom which prevails over. Everything has made it so much a part of education that even those children are whipped to it and made spend many hours of their precious time uneasily in latin. Who after their once gone from school are never to have more to do with it as long as they live. Can there be anything more ridiculous than that. A father should waste his own money in his son's time in setting him to learn the roman language when at the same time he designs him for a trade wherein he having no use of latin fails not to forget that little which he brought from school in which does tend to one horse for the ill usage at procured him. Could it be believed unless we had everywhere amongst us examples of it that a child should be forced to learn the rudiments of a language which is never to use in the course of life that he is designed to and neglect all the while the writing a good hand in casting accounts which are of great advantage in all conditions of life and to most trades indispensably necessary but though these qualifications requisite to trade and commerce in the business of the world are seldom or never to be had grammar schools yet. Either not only gentlemen send their younger sons intended for trades but even tradesmen and farmers fell not to send their children though. They have neither intention nor ability to make them scholars. If you ask them why they do this they think it is strange question as if you should ask them why they go to. Church custom serves for reason and has to those who take it for reason. So consecrated this method that it is almost religiously observed by them and they stick to it. As if their children had scarce orthodox education unless they learned lily's grammar section one hundred sixty five but how necessary so ever latin to some and is thought to be to others to whom it is of no manner of us in service yet the ordinary way of learning it in a grammar school is that which having had thoughts about. I cannot be forward to encourage the reasons against. It are so evident in cogent that they have prevailed with some intelligent persons to quit the ordinary road not without success though the method made use of was not exactly what i imagine the easiest and insured is this to trouble the child with no grammar at all but to have latin as english has been without the perplexity of rules tucked into him for if you will consider it. Latin is no more unknown to a child when he comes into the world than english and yet he learns english without master rule or grammar and so mighty latin to as totally did if he had somebody always to talk to him in this language and when we so often see a frenchwoman teaching english girl to speak and read french perfectly in a year or two without any rule of grammar or anything else but prattling to her i cannot but wonder how gentlemen have overseen this way their sons and thought the more dull or incapable than their daughters section one hundred sixty six if therefore a man could be god who himself speaking good latin would always be about your son talk constantly to him and suffer him to speak or read nothing else. This would be the true and genuine way. And that which i would propose not only is the easiest and best wherein a child might without pains or chiding get a language which others are want to be whipped for at school six or seven years together but also as that. We're in at the same time he might have his mind and manners formed and he'd be instructed to boot in several sciences such as a good part of geography astronomy chronology anatomy besides some parts of history and all other parts of knowledge of things that fall under the senses and require little more than memory for their. If we would take the true way our knowledge should begin and in those things be laid the foundation and not in the abstract notions of logic and metaphysics. Which are fitter to amuse inform the understanding in its first setting out towards knowledge when young men have had their heads employed a while in those abstract speculations without finding the success and improvement or that use of them which they expected they are apt to have mean thoughts either of learning of themselves. They are tempted to quit their studies and throw away their books containing nothing but hard words and empty sounds or else to conclude that if there be any real knowledge in them they themselves have not understandings capable of it that this is so perhaps i could assure you upon my own experience amongst other things to be learned by young gentlemen in this method whilst others of his age are wholly taken up with latin and languages. I may also set down geometry for one having known a young gentleman bread. Something after this way able to demonstrate several propositions in euclid before he was thirteen section one hundred sixty seven but if such a man cannot be god who speaks good latin and being able to instruct your son in all these parts of knowledge will undertake it by this method. The next best is to have him todd as near this way which is by taking some easy and pleasant book such as e. sops fables and writing the english translation made as literal as it can be in one line and the latin words which answer each of them just over it in another these led him read every day over and over again till he perfectly understands the latin and then go onto another fable till he be also perfect in that not omitting what he is already perfect in but sometimes reviewing that to keep it in his memory and when he comes to right let these beset him for copies which with the exercise of his hand will also advance him to latin. This being a more imperfect way than by talking latin unto him the formation of the verbs first and afterwards the dick lynchings of the nouns and pronouns perfectly learned by heart may facilitate his acquaintance with the genius and manner of the latin tongue which varies the signification of verbs and nouns. Not as the modern languages. Dubai particles prefixed but by changing the last syllables. More than this of grammar thinking need not have till he can read himself. Saint team nerva was shopian. Impera sonya's notes in teaching of children. This too i think is to be observed that in most cases where they stick they are not to be farther puzzled by putting them upon finding it out themselves as by asking such questions as these. This which is the nominative. Case in the sentence they are to construe or demanding what al froze signifies to lead them to the knowledge what apps signifies and see when they cannot readily tell this waste time only in disturbing them for whilst they are learning and apply themselves with attention. They are to be kept in good humor and everything made to them and as pleasant as possible therefore wherever they are at a stand and are willing to go forwards helped him presently over the difficulty without any rebuke or chiding. Remembering that we're harsher ways are taken. They are the effect only of pride and peevish nece in the teacher who expects children should instantly be masters of as much as he knows whereas he should rather consider that his businesses to settle in them habits not angrily to inculcate rules which serve for little in the conduct of our lives at least are of no use to children who forget them. As soon as given in sciences where the reason is to be exercised. I will not deny but this method may sometimes be varied and difficulties proposed on purpose to excite industry and accustomed the mind to employ its own strengthened. Sagacity in reasoning. But yet i guess this is not to be done to children. Whilst very young nor at their entrance upon any sort of knowledge then everything of itself is difficult and the great use in skill of a teacher as to make all as easy as he can but particularly in learning languages there is least occasion for posing of children for languages being to be learned by rote custom and memory or then spoken in greatest perfection when all rules of grammar or utterly forgotten. I grant the grammar of a language is sometimes very carefully to be studied but it is not to be studied but by grown man when he applies himself to the understanding of any language critically which is seldom the business of any but professor scholars. This i think will be agreed to that. If a gentleman beat a steady any language it ought to be that his own country that he may understand the language which he has constant use of with the utmost accuracy. His true parents and governors ought to settle establish their authority by an all over the minds of those under their tuition and to rule them by that but when they have got an ascendant over them they should use it with great moderation and not make themselves such scarecrows that they're scholars should always tremble in their site. Such an austerity may make their government easy to themselves but a very little use to their pupils. Tis impossible children should learn anything whilst their thoughts are possessed in disturbed with any passion especially fear which makes the strongest impression on there yet and week spirits. Keep the mind in an easy comtemporary when you would have it. Receive your instructions or any increase of knowledge. Tis impossible to draw fair and regular characters on a trembling. Mind is shaking paper. The great skill of a teacher to get and keep the attention of his scholar whilst he has that he is sure to advance as fast as the learners abilities will carry him and without that all his bustle and there will be too little or no purpose to attain this. He should make the child comprehend as much as may be usefulness of what he teaches him and let him see by what he has learned that he can do something which he could not do before something which gives him some power in real advantage of others who are ignorant of it to this. He should add sweetness in all his instructions and by a certain tenderness in his whole carriage make the child sensible that he loves him and designs nothing but his good the only way to get love child which will make him hearken to his lessons and relish what he teaches him. Nothing but obstinacy should meet with any imperiousness a rough usage. All other faults should be corrected with a gentle hand and kind engaging words will work better and more effectively upon a willing mind and even prevent a good deal of that perverseness which rough and imperious usage often produces in well-disposed generous minds. Tis true obstinacy and willful neglect must be mastered. Even though it cost blows to do it. But i am apt to think perverseness in the pupils is often the effect of frogfitness in the tudor. And that most children would seldom have deserved blows. If needless and misapplied roughness had not taught the mill nature and given them an aversion for their teacher. And all that comes from him inadvertent see forgetfulness. Unsteadiness and wandering of thought are the natural faults of childhood and therefore where they are not observed to be willful are to be mentioned softly and gained upon by time. If every slip of this kind produces anger and rating the occasions of rebuke in corrections will return so often that the tutor will be a constant terror an uneasiness days pupils which one thing is enough to hinder their profiting by his lessons and to defeat all his methods of instruction let the all he has got upon their minds be so tempered with the constant marks of tenderness and goodwill that affection may spur them to their duty and make them find pleasure in complying with his dictates. This will bring them with satisfaction to their tutor them hearken to him as to one who is their friend that cherishes them and takes pains for their good. This will keep their thoughts easy and free whilst there with him. The only temper were in. The mind is capable of receiving new information and admitting into itself those impressions which if not taken and retained. All that they under teachers do together as lost labor. There is much uneasiness in little learning section. One hundred sixty eight. When by this way of inter-lining latin and english one with another. He has got a moderate knowledge of latin tongue. He made then be advanced a little farther to the reading of some other easy. Latin book such as justin her utopias and to make the reading and understanding of it the less tedious and in difficult to him. Let him help himself if he pleases with the english translation nor let the objection that he will then. No it only by rote fried. Anyone this when well-considered is not of any moment against but plainly for this way of learning a language for languages are only to be learned by rote and a man who does not speak english or latin perfectly by road so that having thought the thing he would speak of his tongue of course without thought of ruler grammar falls into the proper expression in idiom of that language does not speak it well nor is master of it and i would fain have anyone named to me that tongue that anyone can learn or speak as he should do by the rules of grammar languages were made not by rules or art but by accident and the common use of the people and he that will speak them. Well has no other rule but that nor anything to trust to but his memory and the habit of speaking after the fashion learned from those that are allowed to speak properly. Which in other words is only to speak by road to others. There are the greatest part of whose business in this world is to be done with their tongues and with their pens and to these it is convenient if not necessary that they should speak properly incorrectly whereby they may let their thoughts into other men's minds the more easily and with the greater impression upon this account. It is that any sort of speaking so as we'll make him be understood is not thought enough for a gentleman he ought to study grammar amongst the other helps of speaking well but it must be the grammar of his own tongue but the language he uses that he may understand his own country speech nicely and speak it properly without shocking the ears of those it is addressed to with solace zooms inoffensive irregularities and to this purpose grammar is necessary but it is the grammar only of their own proper tongues and to those only who would take pains in cultivating their language in perfecting their styles. Whether all gentlemen should not do this i leave to be considered since the want of propriety and grammatical exactness thought very miss becoming one of that rank and usually draws in one guilty of such faults the center of having had a lower breeding and worst company than suits with his quality. If this be so as i suppose it is it will be matter of wonder why young gentlemen are forced to learn the grammars of foreign languages and are never once told the grammar of their own tongues they do not so much no there is any such thing as it made their business to be instructed in it nor is their own language ever proposed to them as worthy karen cultivating though they have daily use of it and are not seldom in the future course of their lives judgy to buy their handsome or awkward way of expressing themselves in it whereas the languages whose grammars they have been so much employed in our such as probably shall scarce ever speak or write or if upon occasion. This should happen. They should be excused for the mistakes and false they make in. it would not have chinese. Who took notice of this way of breeding. Be app to imagine that all our young gentleman were designed to be teachers and professors of the dead languages of foreign countries and not to be met a business in their own. Three there is a third sort of men who apply themselves to two or three foreign dead and which amongst us are called the learn languages make them their study and peaked themselves upon their skill in them. No doubt those who propose to themselves. The learning of any language with this view and would be critically exacting it carefully to study the grammar of it. I would not be mistaken here as if this were to undervalue. Greek and latin. I grant these are languages of great use in excellency. And a man can have no place among the learned in this part of the world who is a stranger to them but the knowledge a gentleman would ordinarily draw for his use. Out of the roman and greek writers i think you may attain without studying the grammars of those tongues and by bear reading may come to understand them sufficiently for all his purposes. How much farther he shall at any time. Be concerned to look into the grammar and critical niceties of either of these tongues. He himself will be able to determine when he comes to propose to himself. The study of anything that will require it. Which brings me to the other part of the inquiry viz.

Impera sonya john locke al froze euclid latin todd Dubai fain justin karen
34: An Interview with Mathbot.com's JW Weatherman

Breaking Math Podcast

36:45 min | 2 years ago

34: An Interview with Mathbot.com's JW Weatherman

"J w weatherman is a guest who has interested in mathematical education and has made use of that interest in the form of creating the website. Math bought dot com, which teaches mathematical concepts in the form of games which explained play the most primordial form of learning breaking math of thirty four. An interview with math lot dot dotcoms j. w weatherman. This is Jonathan and this is Gabriel. And of course we have on j w j w thank you for being on. Yeah, thanks for having me guys. I've been looking forward to this. So the first question I think I'm going to ask you is what inspired you degrade the website? Yeah, actually, I, I'm a software startup guy, so I had sold the software company and I I was out to dinner with my wife and she was she's always been math nut. I've always really enjoyed math from an early age, and so she was tutoring some kids in the neighborhood, and she was really, she was just really frustrated with with the kind of the methodology of teaching that a lot of kids were experiencing. And so we spent our whole anniversary dinner just kind of geeking out talking about all the ways that that we would do differently and how we can use software for that. And I think that was about three. Maybe four years ago, and it's kind of been an obsession ever since it's nice. I quite a few questions that I wanted to ask you, especially for our listeners about math bought dot com. And I think the question will start with is for somebody who's never heard of math bought dot com in might be inspired when they get home from a drive or whatever to go, check it out, what? What? What can they expect? Yeah, it's it's a website. You don't have to install anything, but you go out to math dot com and you just click play. Now you have to create a username and password just because that will allow us to keep track of what level you're on and and then you're immediately on a screen where you can give a robot commands to have him perform tasks. So the very first level is just walked forward once. So you have a little box down at the bottom that shows a guy walking forward. One time you drag that up into the command bar and hit play, and you see that the robot works Ford. So it's very simple, very easy to get started. But within a few levels, your programming rehearsal functions with conditionals end doing some more advanced programming and and really learning some pretty challenging concepts and just to expand a little bit on what you said just to paint a picture for listeners. It's the grid that's maybe what is it like five by ten grand and and you have a character that you need to get to a destination and you have certain commands. He could give that character. For example, go forward in, there's a rocket that you could put something like three go forward commands into, and the rocket has command, and it restricts the number of commands which makes it more difficult. And I did have a question. It is called math bot dot com. Does the teach all forms of math or just computer science? So actually, that's that's a really good question because trying to define exactly what math is, I think is something that than if you've ever tried to do it. You know, it's a lot more challenging. And one of the reasons that I like programming and math is that. I really think that are the same thing. I think there are logical problem solving and using symbols or or abstraction. So if you look at something like Lambda calculus, which was invented in the thirties, it is it's it's brilliant because it completely breaks down the walls between what is programming and what is math. It is absolutely pure math. It's completely theoretical but allows us to write functional programs. And now all of the programming languages include Lambda calculus because it's so powerful. So with math bought, what you're doing is you're, you're programming the robot, but you're also programming the robot to solve puzzles. And those puzzles are also math puzzles. So you're using math to solve problems. You're using lodge, logic and reason to solve problems, but we're also selecting those problems to make sure that we hit all of the things that people are expecting when they're they're trying to figure out how mathworks so it starts out with programming. And the reason that we do programming I is that we don't want anything to be rote memory or redundant because that's when things get boring. So something like addition, we want to introduce after it's clear to students how to program the robot to pick up blocks and move them around so that when they give, we give them something like two. S. three, they're gonna program the robot to do that. Then when they see something like five plus four, they're going to have to maybe modify their program included or improve it or make it a little bit more generic to address other cases, but there's not going to be just a a redundant sort of solving the same problem without a will really learning anything new. And that allows it to stay fun because we like to solve new problems. We like puzzles. But if we saw the exact same puzzle fifty times in a row, we don't like that at all. So I'll I want wanna comment on my experience with math bought full disclosure. I have had a bit of a programming phobia for a long time, and it's actually become apparent to me that it in the industry I work with. There's actually a fair amount of people who have a bit of a programming phobia. I think it's just something from looking at a bunch of syntax. If any programming language, if you don't know what they do, you know it's so different from the the way that we speak that it can be a little scary for somebody who's not really used to it. Even though there's nothing to be afraid of. I had such a fun time with math bought dot com. It's I literally was programming, but it's not intimidating whatsoever. You're just making a little dude follow instructions and it starts off very basic and gets better. So I like that aspect a lot. Yeah. Actually, not only just to say one quick thing, not only were you programming, but you're actually doing functional programming and functional programming is the hardest kind of programming language to really get comfortable with. So once you're comfortable with being able to create functions inside functions and thinking of everything as a function, something like a c. plus plus is actually a little bit easier to deal with than something like scholar or lisp, which is actually what we're using in the background. You don't see that all you see is blocks and shapes and friendly objects, but all of the thinking that you're doing and all of the problem solving that you're doing all of the the creating functions, you're actually writing the same exact stuff and. Soon we're going to expose a lisp interface so that you could see the list code that you've actually Rin because a lot of the feedback that we've gotten is it's too easy even though people are doing really, really difficult stuff. So we're going to show them how nasty at can look and how intimidating can look. But mostly just to help them realize what they've accomplished. In my experience, I have nieces, nephews who are ages two, three, four, six, and eight. And I taught grades kindergarten. I've taught first grade. I even taught fifth grade and sixth grade, and I, I'm going to say this is a very high compliment from that first level, you can have somebody who is in second grade or third grade, and you know they could figure out what to do and start getting basic skills with with with programming. So I think that's great. So you mentioned that you use lisp in in the background, and I one of those people who's a huge aficionado of lisp and lisp for people who don't. Is one of the first programming languages that was invented. It was invented in the late fifties as a purely mathematical puzzle, and then they got it to work on a computer. It has. It's interesting because there's a mathematical concept that's the name of which is alluding me right now that uses a lisp like language to have a correspondence between algorithms and proofs. So if you could make an algorithm that solves a certain thing, you have essentially proven the problem and is used in a lot of automated proof solving. The question I have for you with that in mind is, are you going to go into the more nitty gritty aspects of of lisp once you expand the site? Yeah. What our plans right now are to take an when I say it's list. It is list there stuffing list that you can do that we don't enable right now the way that we're trying to keep it as simple enough to wear you. You've mentioned macaroni just when we're off off there for a minute, that sort of stuff. It gets really hard to represent graphically so we know that we're going. To take what we have right now, which is really easy to get up and running, and we're going to use that all the way through calculus. So eventually you'll be able to not type anything out if you want. You can completely graphically program something that will put an object in orbit if you calculate the red trajectories and those sort of things. But eventually from there what we plan on doing is just going full lisp right, either either full less for maybe. I don't know. We're still debating internally whether we should do list or whether we should just do Lambda calculus, even though it's a little bit ugly to look at just to keep it more pure and a little bit just to really push the limits and blur the lines as much as possible between math and programming. One of the things that you guys said a minute ago was that it was really easy to get up and running. We're all convinced that math and programming is by definition easy. And the reason for that is that it's just always one additional layer of abstraction you. You can end up. With really crazy amazing things that are super powerful and calculations that would require, you know, many computers to work on them for months at a time to get to the answer. But every single step in that formula is a very simple step. And there shouldn't be any reason that any of us with functional brains should be really intimidated by that because it's all just logic and it's all incremental logic. So you might not know, for example, what this function is doing, but it's just a box, right? And if you open up that box, there's just other boxes and they're inside. And if you keep doing that with something like lists, you get down to two boxes Ray with Lambda calculus. There's literally just two different functions that are very, very simple that are combined together to create everything that is compute -able. So I think that one of the things that we're really committed to and believe is that math and programming is always easy unless you either have a bad teacher or. Or you have bad curriculum. And I've been a bad teacher at math meantime, so I don't. I don't mean to slam people, but it's not math. That's hard. It's understanding somebody else that's not explaining it. Well, that's hard. Yeah. In calculus, we've mentioned this on the Facebook and just as an aside him break, I'm writing a book right now that explains three math problems in great detail explains the bolt the Maxwell Boltzmann distribution for gases, how fast molecules are going. It explains the Pathet green theorem of from scratch, and it explains Lambda in explains the white combinator in Lambda calculus. The problem I had with Lambda with explaining Lum to calculus is really the the white care about it is because there are so many reasons to actually care about it, but you have to really build that up carefully. And I think it's interesting that your approach with the robot allows you to dive right into that. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, a big part of what we're trying to do is help people understand that problem solving is a really important part of mathematics. If. For to use an analogy if I was to say, hey, I want you to learn how to use a saw, and I'm going to give you a two by four, and I just want you to cut a one inch squares often that into the two by four. And I want you to do that all day long. And then to the day, you're going to know how to use a soft, but you're going to hate your teacher and you're gonna hate the whole experience. And I think that's how most people learn math. They're given a process and procedure and they're told the fall of that process and procedure, and there's no pleasure in there's no joy in that. What we're trying to do is say, here's a problem. Here's a challenge. Here's a, here's a difficulty and you can solve it, however, you want and you're going to because you're hardwired to enjoy puzzles like all humans, you're going to work that puzzle over in your head a little bit. You're going to come up with some ideas. You're gonna try some things that work and some things that don't work. But at the end of the day, you're gonna solve the problem, and that means that you're going to get a chemical reward for that because we all get were hardwired to get a dopamine hit on. We solve a problem, and that would be more like saying, okay. Okay. And look, here is a, here's a song, here's some lumber, and we want you to build a chair, and even if you don't build the best in the world, it's going to be far more satisfying to actually solve that problem. And incidentally, you're gonna learn how to use a saw. You're gonna learn how to cut, and that's how mathematics should be learned incidentally, in pursuit of solving a real problem. I do have to point out that you mentioned chairs just like our interviewers. Yeah. I don't know if you've got that. Yeah, chair chairs a recurring theme in this in this podcast. So I had a question for you. I'm trying to think about our demographic of listeners, many of which maybe say home schoolers or homeschool parents that are teaching their kids, or even teachers in any sort of public school or private school system. Earlier in this interview, you'd mentioned calculus with math. Bought that made me want to ask you are all levels of math incorporated into math, bought from pre algebra to algebra algebra two geometry calculus and all this skills and sub skills. Within them. I mean, yes. And no, I would say yes, in the sense that if somebody works through all the levels that we have in math bot not all of them are released because the trick is it's it's one thing to build all the levels, but we really have to do a lot of user testing. I mean, the experience that you had is exactly what we're shooting for, and that just requires a lot of interational requires a lot of, we think this levels perfect. Put it out, have five hundred people play it and realize that we're scrapping it and we're gonna. We're gonna redo it. So right now you have levels that are all the way through. Recur sive programming with conditionals those released and out in the wild, I think, probably within the next week or so we'll have a dish in and that might sound really simple, but it's not. It's not addition in the sense that you're, you know, looking in a screen that says one plus two in your writing down three. It's a dish in in the sense that the there's a place where you need to put three objects or you need to put one plus two objects and you need to teach the robot how to do addition. So it's a, it's a level of cleverness it's required that's beyond addition. But you learn addition incidentally in that process. If you don't know it already and we have all of those levels beyond edition through calculus, but they need to be refined a little bit more so that we can release them. What I tell people is that if you get started now we'll probably be able to stay ahead of you. So if you're a a kid that's ten years old and you wanna learn math and programming. Chances are. By the time that you're really ready to program the robot to solve a division problem, we'll have that out exponents follow after that the general curriculum goes from additions subtraction, multiplication division, exponents. And then we do go onto algebra and eventually through through calculus. We don't really have anything on geometry yet, which is ironic since the big inspiration for this whole project was also Euclid elements. But we do plan to put that in there where where it's appropriate overall, though we're not all that concerned about trying to check all the boxes that that might be on the SAT's or something else. Because what we really want to do is have a really logical in the same way that Euclid did have a really logical, build up through some really advanced concepts. And if a student gets that, they'll be able to figure out anything that we didn't cover because they'll they'll have the skills. It's, I think very important to instill autodial. Activism and people, and I did have a question about the addition are, are you are those piano type addition? Or is it like church turing numerals? Actually, what we're doing is more like Matthew c or the sort of the visual math credits that came from Singapore math in that in a lot of the testing that we did, we found that kids pick it up pretty well if they have like physical objects and they also pick up the different levels of or the different values of number. So you know one, ten hundred place, the different place values really quickly. If you just give them an object that you say, there's ten in this or there's another object that has one hundred. So the way that it works is you have boxes on the screen that have different numbers and the robot needs to go say, it was thirteen. He'd pick up three number one boxes and one ten bucks. And that would be the first number that he's working with. So it's kind of this weird combination of sort of having a stack and computer programming and having a stack of blocks that represent the numbers. I had listened to a few other podcasts that you were on. You talked about some of the incentives with math bought a you care to talk about that right now. So yeah, one of the other things that we think is really important is incentives. So right now we know from a lot of studies that have been done that if you reward kids for accomplishing tasks, they have a better experience than they accomplish more tasks quicker. And we saw that actually with some early user testing that we did with Matha where we would go to a convention or a place where it was selling curriculum or something where there's a lot of kids we'd walk around with ipads and have a lot of people play the game, and it became pretty obvious to all of the people that were doing that you x. research that once the problems got challenging if there was no reward system than the kids had a tendency to check out, it's very hard to compete with something like angry birds or the latest, first-person shooter and still have a. Challenge and actually have to work your mind because you know, we do offer sort of the chemical rewards of problem solving, but something like angry birds offers that plus there's no work. So it's really, it's really not a fair playing field, but the parents or the, the folks that were doing really, really well with their kids and during user testing of the early version math bought, we're the ones that said, I tell you what, if you can get through recurs all by you an ice cream or I'll be really impressed if you could do this. So there was an external motivation outside of the game that really made the difference. And what we realized from that is that if we could do something, like for example, have an algebra course and maybe the algebra courses, fifty dollars an apparent or grandparents, or you know, just a good neighbor would pay for that for the student than what we can do is we can take forty five of that and give it back to the student, maybe a dollar or two a time as they mastered different. Six to create that external incentive and we plan to do that with bitcoin just because not not because we are huge fans of bitcoin. But the main reason that we're doing is that there's just no other way to do it with credit cards or anything like that. It would be totally impractical. Wow. Actually, I think Jonathan, you and I may have been thinking like on this, so that's that's really I was gonna say, really cool, but I'll say now that's very interesting because I know that that's certainly innovative. I honestly have not heard of. I've heard of a lot of discussion about motivating people, and I, I think this is the first time I've heard of people actually directly saying with cash like you actually get paid for doing it. So I'm curious. I wasn't my idea actually. So this idea of rewarding people with with cash or bitcoin or ice cream because you can use cash to turn into ice cream. Unfortunately, we can't deliver digital ice cream or that. That pretty bad for their teeth anyway. Yeah, but, but there was actually a several studies and I'll I'll send you a link after the show where public schools did this in like inner cities where they would say, we'll give you fifty dollars for every a and thirty dollars for every be in some of the worst neighborhoods in the United States, and the test scores went up considerably changing nothing else, but just that and it makes sense that it would if you think about, you know the fact that there there's there's only a couple of different things going on with any task, right and human action that we take there is there's the difficulty of it and then there's the reward afterwards. And so if you're an inner city kid, there's a certain reward for getting an a. and the there is a certain difficulty for that. But if you increase the reward right? If it's not only do you get the satisfaction and some recognition and maybe your parents are impressed, maybe they aren't, but on top of that, you get, you know, enough money to where if you're gonna couple as maybe can by parents tennis shoes that you really. Want. It makes sense that we would expect more effort because there's more of a reward and I could also see with your system, especially they're being social pressure. Like, say, the parent buys their child, you know, the pro program, they know that forty five of those fifty dollars or whatever the ratio is are going to the kid. So think it'd be like, hey, why don't you have a while Jeff Gandhi today? Didn't you do your math or. I don't know, I can see that happening. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. When the kid asks, hey, can I go to the movies they answer might be, I don't know. Can you afford to go to the movies? Did you know that your your money yet? Oh, yeah. I gotta to you. I, you know, I think innovation like that. That's really cool. That's that's really cool. Just out of curiosity, hasn't been anyone who's offered any criticism of that idea both with the original study or the one that you brought up? Yeah, the criticism is generally that. I mean, I think it's, I think it's really bad criticism, and I actually tend to think that it's motivated. That's got some. Ill motives because it's such a poor argument. But the argument is something along the lines of if you pay somebody to do something, then they won't do it for the inherent love of it or the intrinsic love of it. And so then they will not love it. So I guess the argument would be if you pay the kid to get an a. on a math test, and then he got an on the math test and got paid, and then later may be stopped paying him or just, you know, even in very active self, paying him, he would. He would love getting an a less because he was paid to do it, but it's really silly. I mean, if you apply that to computer programmers that are above eighteen, we would have a lot less computer programmers in the world, and there'd be a lot fewer people that become passionate and love programming because they've become good at it because they were paid to become good at it. So I don't know why there's this. You know, this mythical line between adults that are eighteen years old that are doing. Jobs in solving real world problems, and you know, people that are under eighteen learning to solve difficult tasks in and expecting some kind of recognition reward for. So j. w. you seem to enjoy programming in Naveh passion for it. What is your least favorite and most favored programming languages and to a lay audience, why cash? I don't really have any least favorite programming language. I maybe maybe Java script even though it's really, really popular. It's just looks ugly to me, but that's kind of a lot of people will say that's a kind of a poor criticism. But math is a very artistic experience programming as well. So it makes sense that it would be somewhat subjective. So I'll say Java script is my least favorite. I really like lisp lisp is my favorite. I love the elegance of the parentheses. I think I agree with you very much less of who I am a huge amount of Java script because to me, it just feels like a like, lisp disguises. See, I guess there's script. So one of the things that there's. There's a couple of interview questions that I like to ask all of our guests in stem. And I get some really interesting answers. Do you have a favorite SCI either book, novel story or whatever? Yeah, actually, I share this love of Rick and Morty with you guys. That show has got me completely addicted. I think I've watched every episode at least twice now. Okay. In that case, I have a couple of follow ups. So my wife is typically not a fan of very crass TV. However, there's an episode that she absolutely fully endorses. That episode is the one something Rickett this way comes in which the devil shows up and sets up shop. I don't know if you would call that one from season one. That's one of my favorite men ahead. So my question for you would be this if you were to try to sell somebody on Rick and Morty and get them interested in it, which episodes would you suggest and why? Oh, man. It's it's tough because it is so crass, but that would definitely be up there. Let me let me think of. I think I think the first one because it really got me hooked on the first one and I can't even remember exactly what the story line is. But yeah, that's part of the problem with binge-watching as I can't remember any individual episode. But from that episode that you're referencing my favorite part by far and maybe my favorite part of all of that is in that one. And that's where Rick is asked to fill out the employee health benefit form. And he just says, I'm bored everybody out and just pours gasoline all over everything and throws a match. I've wanted to do that. So many businesses that very cathartic. One of the questions that I'd like to ask you is, do you have any favorite math formulas? I do. So I'll give you the formula and then what you guys think about it and see if you can figure out what it is. It's probably pretty obvious, but it's area equals point, seven, eight, five times the diameter squared. So so it's not done. It's actually actually the way that this the reason this is my favorite favorite formula is that my fourteen year old discovered it when I think he was eight and he discovered it by going through Euclid elements. Just one exercise at a time, and it's actually pie. He discovered pie on his own point seventy five is one fourth of pie. So three point, one, four, repeating, whatever, but the way that he did that is he had to. I can't remember what problem it was, but the problem in Euclid elements that he had to solve was to figure out the ratio of a circle inside a square that intersex just on four points and he came up with that and I didn't know what it was at first. I had the same reaction. I was like, no, this is not right. The pie should be an ear somewhere, but then when he showed it to me drawn out, I realized what was going on that it's really just pyre squared written a different way, but I'll never forget point seventy five after after seeing him discover it in that way. I think that discovering math things is really teaches you love of mount from an early age. I remember in second grade, I got the whole, you know. End times n plus one over two is the sum of one to end and it was so fun. I went down so many wrong roads. I did trial and error, and it took me a while to figure it out, and it was a great learning experience. So here on breaking math, we have a lot of connections who are teachers and involved in the public education system and we promote, and we promote a certain of you of that. I'm not exactly the byu that digital system itself has, but definitely a separate to be Frank different view than you've shown on your Twitter and we thought it'd be good to allow you to explain real quick some some of your views in case some of our listeners come across your Twitter. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, in general, I think that kids are much better off at home with their parents. You can put me in the whole school category, but most of that is just for emotional support and brain development outside of study. And I also am not a big fan of the public school system, but I don't want to. I don't want to give those guys anymore grief and they deserve. I'm not a big fan of the private school system. Either which I think mirrors at oftentimes battery and sometimes even worse. And I think personally, I think it'd be it's because of monopoly. I think that when when there is a monopoly service, the service is low quality in the cost is high. I think that's a basic economic truth. And so you know, I, I'm not a big fan of that system that said at the end of the day, I'm just the software guy building software. My motivation might be to defend public schooling or to prevent the state from having as big of an influence on all of our lives is at does. But then to the, it's just software. You can use it if it makes your life better or you can, you know, ignore it. So the reason that my Twitter feed might seem aggressive to a lot of people is that I'm an anarchist capitalist. And what that means is that I don't think that the state is a good entity. I think that it claims a monopoly of violence over a geographic region. And so essentially it's a mafia now I happen to live in the United States where the mafia is more generous than maybe the modest. The mafia in Venezuela is right now, but fundamentally I don't. I don't think that that's a good or. Useful institution. And so part of my motivation in creating math bought is to remove math education from the state, because I think that that the when the state claims task it does it poorly, it creates all kinds of negative incentives and has all kinds of negative side effects. And I would like to see that end. J w. Is there anything that you'd like to plug? Obviously, math bought dot com, but any any signing off remarks? I anything you'd like to say to our listeners? Yeah. So math bought dot com is where you can find the app. It's really easy to to find and play. If you want to get a hold of me. The best way to reach me is on Twitter at j w weatherman underscore, and I wanna make it really clear that you don't have to be an ARCO capitalist or think that what we're doing is or what our motivations are are ideal to use the software. If it's useful software and helps you teach your kids, math, help you guys use it in, enjoy it and you can discard my political views. Wonderful. And actually, I. So I'll just go ahead until a quick story. So as I was looking at your Twitter feed and you know, in my background, I'm sorry, my my dog. Math dog is. Williams? No, her thoughts second, so. Sure. So anyways, first of all, I'm going to preface this best thing. I have thoroughly thoroughly enjoyed this interview and learning about the product in about your motivations now's a by. Yeah. As a former teacher, I worked in the public school systems. My experience has been. I met so many teachers who pour their blood sweat and tears within the system to work very hard for what I consider to be very noble noble desires to to educate people thought, you know, I just, I guess I never really took a critical look at public schooling. I just saw it as you know, has its faults at does anything like a public police department or a fire department or other public services. But my my experience from a personal level was knowing the work that people put into it. So when I I read your Twitter account and j w I was almost my jaw was almost because this is this is coming really, really this. This is really, really hard. Against the public school system. Now, what as an adult, this is something that I probably wouldn't do in my college days as an adult. As you just mentioned, I can fully appreciate the product of math bought, and for instance, completely disagree with your Twitter. And again, I haven't even. I haven't even decided if I completely agree or disagree because I haven't really dissect it. But yeah, I think you know, you don't have to agree or disagree with someone's product in, you know, you can evaluate somebody's products separately. So I just wanted to point that out. And it's for that reason though. It of course, we have no problem with you coming on our show and even giving us an introduction to an ARCO capitalism, and we can either decide to, you know, support it or completely disagree with it. You know. Doc, Uber main product? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And actually it's an open source project. So one of the other things that that you could do is you can say, this is a good product, but I don't want to support j. w. n. is crazy views that we need to have competition and education, and the state is a bad idea to take that monopoly. So you could actually fork the code, take all the work that all of us have done and create a pro government. Common core version of math bought whatever, and I would be totally fine with that. Because at the end of the day, there's a lot of kids if you were a public schoolteacher if you look back on it, I think with a critical eye, you could probably identify a lot of kids that were mistreated. They're mistreated by their peers, and they were not protected by adults that were in the environment. The adults that were there were not even capable and half of the time, not intelligent enough to figure out what's going on and deal with it. Even if they were good people, they didn't have the power to do the right thing in an environment with a bunch of kids that are mistreating other, right. So if I stack everything in the favor of the most virtuous person, I still want to end that institution because I still know what it does to people, and I still know that seven eight year old kids need to be at home with mom or spending a lot of time with dad and being in an institution that has barely glorified prison is not something that I support. Warnings Oilers ahead. My favorite episode is when you find out that Rick is actually intergalactic terrorists and he he takes over and destroys the galactic empire. I think that is the first episode of season to remember. I think you're afraid to the first upset of season three if I'm not mistaken. I think the previous episode is called the wedding. Squatters see, I could do it entire podcast. Yes. In the weddings, he he's arrested. And then in that episode he he breaks out of prison and he completely destroys all of all of the galactic society not through a bomb or terrorist threat wh. What was it? He did. How was it that Rick ended up completely destroying the galactic federation. So he changes the value of the galactic dollar from one to zero. So basically the the, the intergalactic Federal Reserve database is hacked by Rick, which makes sense because it's a centralized. Fiat currency. And as a result of that, all of the government employees start realizing that they have no incentive to do anything and everything completely falls apart.

Math Twitter Rick Jonathan United States Ford Facebook Euclid dopamine Federal Reserve Lambda tennis Gabriel j. w. n.
PT63: "Elevate Your Community Groups," with Matthew Salvaggio

Podium Time

1:33:23 hr | 1 year ago

PT63: "Elevate Your Community Groups," with Matthew Salvaggio

"Welcome to podium time the PODCAST for conductors and students a lot of people. I find. Just don't know how to listen and I find a lot of people don't know how to practice. I type up notes and send them notes and they've been really receptive to that idea. I'll say okay. How do you practice intonation? And when I when I can be that specific with them instead of okay at measure. Thirty six you know. Listen for the melody. Listen for how the SOLO TRUMPET SHAPES. This particular phrase and when you answer in the next two bars shape the same way. Hello and welcome to the final episode of season three of podium time. This is Jeremy. Cuevas your host for these find adventures into the minds of our fellow conductors. And after today we will be on break for two months while we gather more awesome and insightful interviews for all of you there will be some bonus content coming here in the next few weeks into this podcast feed and then regular episodes will start again in early February. So Watch for those. And we'll keep you posted if you're on a social media pages or on our email list now today we're talking with Matthew so far about many things but primarily how we can elevate our community ensembles how we can bring them to the next level and do some of the things that the quote real groups professional orchestras regional. Orchestras are allowed to do quotes around but that community. Orchestras are not allowed to do. Most of us will be working with volunteer groups at some point in our careers. I mean most of us right but are conducting programs rarely work on how to work with these groups. When you've got such a range of skills and ages matt talks about when you know we all but we all know this already but he points it out. That's you've got people who are just starting your instrument who have never taken lessons or played in high school and all the way up through people with a master's degree in performance in some of these groups. So there's a huge range of people. How do you rehearse them so that not? Everybody is board but that so that some people are not board and so that some people are not overwhelmed. Teddy Rehearse them. How do you program for those and Matt? Really digs into that. He's got an awesome system. He's got some awesome advice. And Yeah it's just a really great interview if you're working with community groups or going to work with community groups and even if you're not there's a lot to gleaming this interview besides we talk about Some issues with academics. The kind of career path for conductors as well as some things that orchestras may be needing to do or should definitely look at doing in the future as as things continue to change So yes we did have some technical glitches early in the interview. But that lead into the next bit of our discussion so I was able to cut some of the glitches out but keep the transition to the next topic smooth so just be aware that the technical glitches in the episode were left in on purpose. Usually I usually edit all that stuff out for everybody but the ones in here on purpose also we do have some furry excuse me three canine and feline guests in the second half of our chat. So hopefully the groaning and the almost knocking over a flowerpots. Be Too much of a distraction but my dog daisy has been on the podcast before as a guest so most of you should know already or hear. Her Groans Here and there. I tried to meet my microphone. But it's not always possible when she's just sitting under the desk and wanting nothing but my attention or a walk or some food you never know with her. But Anyway we've got some incredible interviews lined up already for next season again. We are starting in early February including interviews with some of our most requested guests. The people that friends have come up to me and said you know what you really need to get this person on and some of these people we've been reaching out to a lot and we were finally able to get them on the show. It's always hard hinault. We're all we're all busy. We're all busy. We've got busy schedules. But we've got some incredible interviews already in the bag and going on to the next couple of months so stay tuned for those and the The launch of season four in February. But I enjoy this vitally important if you conduct community orchestras and just for the future of music in this world community. Orchestras are a huge place. Where lots more artistry can and should be made so enjoy this vitally important interview with Matthew Salvato. Yeah so conduct. The you could symphony any by name. I don't know I mean I've listened to some episodes but I know that there's sometimes I'm always always experimenting to see you know and but yeah. Yeah that's That's a perfect sir. There Euclid yeah so I can let the Euclid Symphony Orchestra and the university heights symphonic band and nineteenth century historic performance practice orchestra called Orchestra Nineteen Prior to that I had been director of bands at Hiram College on the fact that hopefully at Lakewood community college doing some conducting there and I spent eight years As the Music Librarian Personnel Manager. Assistant conductor general musical. Catch all at the Cleveland Pops Orchestra. So that's been kind of my course since graduate school graduate school so I did my graduate work at Kent State University where I studied instrumental conducting spent a year studying conducting with wink order and I spent my second year studying orchestral conducting Scott Seton and I did my Undergrad at the University of Akron. I started as a music major and found out all too late that Akron was really not the right. Fit For me glance despite. There's nothing wrong with the school. I had a great experience there. Don't get me wrong and they pumped out some tremendous musicians and tremendous educators but not not a good fit for me and I found out all too late but I ended up doing a degree in sociology. There and eventually by the time I graduated I did the degree in three years which was a minor miracle in itself but I had enough credits that I basically had a be a in music. I was just like short of the degree requirements. And they wouldn't count this semester that I took taking private piano lessons so I said okay. That's fine moving But fortunately I had enough of background and had been doing some kind of independent conducting work when I was a senior in college that it was enough to get me into a Master's program so I I kind of took the unconventional way around but it ended up working out in the long run Drita conducting in the first place. You know I think I think in a way I was drawn to conducting very early on and I think I think before conducting it was. It was kind of the the teaching aspect of conducting. I can remember being really young. I mean man. I think we're we're having. We're having some connection problems. I think you're you're frozen and we've got some spotty audio. Maybe let's let's give it a second and then I finally got my first good conducting photo. Do you WANNA see it. Yeah Yeah Yeah. Awesome in action. It only took four years. You'RE GONNA make a website. May I ask that technology stuff? It's so easy. Just squarespace site matinee. Both use this first message to him was thanks. We're reaching out also has like. Yeah we use the same with the same template on squarespace series. Here squawked. Sorry about that not a problem. We got your back all of a sudden. I opened up the browser and it was like no Internet. It's like Oh yeah. We were just talking about websites. And I was telling Luke that I think we have the same template On Your squarespace in mind. Oh Yeah I mean I I had been using. This really outdated one for a long time and I finally sat down and took two weeks in just like totally started from scratch. So but it's I think it's a lot more user friendly so I met with the head like a marketing director. The Orchestra Work for if he could just like teach me about marketing and so we sat down and they looked website. And he's just like yeah. This is bad this is bad. This is bad this is bad. Just make squarespace site. It's so much easier. Yeah this is actually really good about providing different templates for different niches on what you need. They're they're actually worth it. I think yeah and they do. They do like the issue that you talked about with my website was. I didn't have the right thing so that my website could be accessed overseas and so he pulled it up in his like. You don't have this installed on your site so in nobody in Europe can can pull this up but like that's just one of many things that squarespace does for you like but has now come up. Yeah I didn't I didn't know. And so he and so. I figured out how to do it on my old site which I need to do something with it. I don't know yeah yeah. I was just telling lukewarm showing me as his newest conducting picture I was saying he needs to needs to put it on a website and squarespace is nice and easy he you know. I I am kind of wrestling. So I'm in my early thirty s and the whole idea of like the shameless. Like using social media to just like blast. Everything you've got is still pretty new to me. But I'm finding that you just you just have to put as much stuff as you've got out there because there's so much other noise that if you wanna get any kind of time in front of anybody you just I mean you have to be constantly putting stuff out there and I. I used to think that was just stuff that solo artists should do. And it's not I mean if you're making any kind of art you know and I think it's even tougher for us you know given that a lot of the groups that I'm working with now our community ensembles. Not every bit of footage that we get is awesome. And so you know. Sometimes you'll have a rehearsal where you know you might be looking. Awesome in the group is okay. But it's not really something that comfortable putting out for public consumption and it's like man five minutes of rehearsal that's like if I can count five minutes that's were in good shape a I think it's just that debt business of every time you're on a podium. You need to make sure you get recording because now five minutes might be the difference between an okay application a strong application right now. It's better to have strong. Application may open yes. I would have thought that that's definitely true. Now which which which which makes me WANNA ask? What are some of the things? You're you're applying for. Where do you know where your focus is? I'm kind of in a period of transition right now. I'm not really sure what's next for me. I spent the majority of my professional life. In front of bands and wind ensembles the orchestra. Saying is pretty new for me Right when I finished Grad school I spent a year as an assistant conductor with the Lakeland Civic Orchestra which might teacher Scott seed and had also been working with Before he moved to North Dakota and so I had gotten some experience there But I I really didn't start doing much or Castro work until I took the EUCLID GIG a couple of years ago and that was I had. I think I had applied for a position with them. Straight out of school and in didn't get it for various reasons but several years had gone by the President of the board had called me up and they were having some issues with their current conductor. They said you know we've got kids concert coming up in two weeks and the conductor doesn't WanNa do it and we're having all these issues you can you can you should us in and I did. And the conductor ended up leaving after that and it was just kind of a natural segue and. I've been with them since. Yeah so I am at at the time I had also been teaching at Hiram College so I was. I was adjunct for them. I was working with the heights band in Euclid and I still I still had a day. Gig With the pop so I was juggling a bunch of stuff I eat. I and I'm not sure if if this is the appropriate time for me to kind of entered the assistant conductor for a or if maybe DMA's next but having spent some time at higher education. I don't know if that's the right show house from me right now. I think you know as as the Higher Ed landscape changes there are lots of. There are a lot more barriers to entry than there. Used to be You know when I started that I had a master's degree and just very minimal experience. I had gotten hired because of who I knew basically and I had I had some okay footage and given a program that I was going into. I was a good fit for the program at the time. But you know to ask somebody to adjunct. Be The WIND ENSEMBLE CONDUCTOR. Jazz ensemble conducted the marching band. And you know one or two course loads finesse. Basically full time for about halftime. Pay You know. And so all of the other gigs that I had to to jumble at the time and quite frankly the program was so small that it really I mean I was getting better results for the community. Ensembles that I was working with so it's like well. What is this now if you look at any job posting? That's in higher. Ed You know they want you to have a DNA. You know it's Diem. They want you to conduct the orchestra. They want you to teach string methods. They want you to teach private lessons on strings music appreciation and keyboard or music theory or you know music for the for the masses or whatever it is and it's like you know you give an interview and they make it clear and you say yes. Of course I can do all of those things and it's it's still a crap shoot and then they want to offer you. You know thirty five thousand dollars for the job and it's like okay. It's a good way to get your foot in the door. But as as again as the landscape of Higher Ed changes not all of the the full time tenure track things are drying up for us I got offered a job at the beginning of this school. Year with lie won't say words with but It it was essentially what I just described conducting the second band conducting the Orchestra Teaching Applied Lessons Teaching conducting to undergrads who had essentially completed the sequence and we're pursuing additional study music appreciation and Intro to theory and it was for thirty five thousand dollars and I got offered the job kind of at the last minute. It would have meant Relocating essentially in the middle of August and I had already programmed seasons I had guest soloist lined up in contract signed and other people that I was way more accountable to And so I had to turn it down. But it's like you know it wasn't tenure track. There was no security accepts. Yoon of the word of the committee that you know this is the way that this position has always been you know. It's very unlikely that anything would happen to at ROM that it is but you know so yeah. I'm not sure if a DNA is next for me or not. I do you know with the way the landscape looks right now. I don't know how interested I am jumping back into higher. At at the moment that could change. I mean you know I think I think there are a lot of things about the job security aspect that we we find higher Ed really appealing. But it ain't the same as it used to be. I'm there's there's plenty of other people shooting for it also new up well and that's the thing too i. I had a conversation with a friend of mine. Cameron Lee choose a percussionist over on his podcast. Not Long Ago. Essentially about the same thing you know. It's like if you if you finish a master's degree in performance in a weather instrumental. Vocal conducting whatever. It is by the time. You've finished your master's degree. You should essentially have all of the skills that you need to be able to further. Develop your artistry once you leave and I think that anybody pursuing a doctorate degree. I mean it's largely in academic degree. You sure there's a lot of performance opportunities and other things that you should. You should glean from it. But it's largely an academic degree and really the only purpose of getting GM is you're eligible for the faculty positions. That I just. I don't know if that's where it's at. I would rather go like create the arts and worry about lead. The academics the academics at this point. I don't know it's all up in here. Who knows I might turn around and apply for the AMA in the next year or two. I'm just you know I think and I think that's another good point. I think as conductors. We spend a lot of time trying to figure out what the first step is. How do we get? How do we get our foot in? And then we get our foot in and we landed and it's like okay. Where do I go from here? It's like almost as soon as we take the podium for the first time it's like okay. What's next Allen? It's and I think it's I think. In a lot of ways. We kind of bogged down trying to plan the architecture of what our career looks like. You know I'm going to spend three years with this orchestra that I'm GonNa have a minute be able to move into what's next and you know. I think you know for me right now. I've got enough things. In both groups that are creating some momentum to them that. I'm not necessarily in a hurry to pull away from them because I own a follow these things through but also because I think if I if I do it right. Data create some momentum for me. Personally you know when when when you move on then you have that that base of evidence that yes I can. I can build us. I can sustain the yeah anymore. It's not just you know this is what I did while I was on the podium but this is what I did you know for. Grant writing for fundraising. This is what you know. And the whole bit Yeah one of our one of our conducted that Luke and I have both worked with. Before he is at his first one of his earlier big jobs he liked doubled the size of the orchestra and moved them from a one due to performance for concerts. And I was like yeah. That's the kind of stuff that hiring committee definitely wants to say. Yeah I mean you know the thing about I think and the I mean I'm like so torn right now with hiring committees. I mean everybody has their own way of going about how they approach the process. Right some people look at the resumes. I some people read the cover letters. Some people go right for the video and so it really. I mean you can. You can have some really awesome video. But you know if half of the ensemble are paid ringers. Then you should have a good recording you should. You should have some pretty good stuff to work with. But you know if you can show that you know. The regular makeup of the ensemble has grown rescues retained and built in audience. If you've Rowden X. number of dollars in grant and fundraising money here. That's that's more difficult to fudge Yeah and consists streak to show the bets. You know. It's not just a one time thing. Yeah so let's talk about. Let's talk about your current groups You've got the euclid than you have. The Band is will and Orchestra. Nineteen that would. It's yeah. Yeah that was. So that's my baby and the baby's kind of stalled at the moment because we're in this In the whole nonprofit waiting for the government to approve paperwork getting numbers in place. We've done a couple of kind of pick up performances. But now we're trying to get things a little more formalized so we can go after the grant money and and really kind of get some projects funded Dot Org Innovation. Kind of really came out of nowhere when I was with the POPs. There's a guy named JC Sherman who was doing development work for them and I found out that he plays serpent Anchin Bosso and really star things we got to talking and we said you know we should get a group together and do something and then he left the orchestra and when I took over doing the personnel for them a couple of years later. The first the first thing that I had to do when I was hired was get an orchestra sixty together to do some run out gigs in Cincinnati in Buffalo and JC was one of the people who played and we ended up sitting next to each other on the Boston. We were just kinda messing around and it's like well you know if we were going to do this. Who WOULD WE? Ask who get involved. What would we do where we do it and then little did I know that it just turned into this huge snowball? And we've got another historical group in town called Apollo's fire who's been around for a while But I really had no idea how many historical players we had in town and I mean once people found out that we were doing this I mean they were just crawling out of the woodwork. Which was which was really cool to not have to like beg and plead with performers to to do stuff. So it's it's Kinda snowballed like. I said it's it's stalled with the moment but it's only stalled because of the government's not stalled because air so so so why nineteenth century music. It's a you know for me. It's always been the stuff that I've really enjoyed studying and listening to and we could get away with a lot of instrumental. That's the right word. The the actual physical properties of the instruments were in a great period of change during the nineteenth century and so we had a flute player. Who had a simple system flute? You know even though that might not be appropriate for some of the later nineteenth century works. It's fair to say that there were people who were still playing on them in some of the small villages in Europe. You know so we could get away with kind of creating that sound I think there's a lot more leeway with a lot of the historical practice stuff like that But really I think you know it's it's what it's the repertoire. Orchestras are still capitalizing. Off of you know and so if we can bring a new voice to it. That's that was my interest but you know of course anytime that he could get his hands on a serpent part or CIMH Bosso a substitute to I mean yeah. There were just out of possibilities and it didn't pigeonhole and plus Apollo fires technically a baroque orchestra. So I WANNA step on any toes as far as that goes to because there's no need to create any enemies here I was gonna get like broke. Classical is usually what we what we think of performance practice but there. There is a lot in the in the romantic nineteenth century that we don't think about yeah and like I said there was so much change that happen during that period. I mean the possibilities are really endless and with as many Higher Ed institutions that we have in northeastern Ohio. There are a lot of places who can loan us equipment and hosts concerts so we're really pretty fortunate to be where we are and what were. What were the early concerts looking like? Was this something that you you said. You were scraping together players. But they're still coming out of the woodworks. Yeah I mean I. I was fortunate because I had made a lot of connections being personnel manager at POPs and having a relationship the musicians union and So I had really strong cool of people to pull from for the first concert. Did Beethoven seven and a flute concerto by Franz Not Franz Schubert Yosef Schubert's with John Rottenburg who was the foremost former associate principal the Cleveland Orchestra. And then we did The mendelssohn overture calm sea and prosperous voyage. That's such a great overture I remember I had one three hour rehearsal. The day of the concert I was I was sick as a dog. I mean I was. I don't know what I had. I was I was on the downhill end of it but I had no voice. I mean so rehearsal is just I mean. It wasn't a nightmare. It was a nightmare from my thinking that it was. I had any control whatsoever And then we had about an hour and a half break and then we the concert and it was. I mean it was a really incredible experience to get that sound in that church from that group of people on that repertoire in that period of time and then we we had a year so go by Just because I was focusing on some other things that I didn't really have the time to to truly dedicate to like I wanted to And I was trying to think about. How can we exploit really distinct sounding voices? You know nineteenth century horns nineteen flutes things like that and so a serpent. I ended up doing on our second concert A concert of wind serenade so we did the Strauss serenade in the divorce. Serenade for wins The good no petite symphonie and the Hartman ceremony serenade for wins and I think this next time coming up we've got a somebody who actually was one of the first people to do a DNA and historical horn in this country in town. So I think we're GONNA get some brass works together for something upcoming. Yeah and are you. Are you afraid the performance practice are you doing a lot of the research or the musicians? Coming with their expertise. I was that process working so my vision for it is that eventually as the group can start to meet more regularly. There will be kind of a group performance practice that we all kind of come to accept but for right now. I'm bringing an having everybody who has prior experience bring what they've got to amend kind of in rehearsal. We tackled how we want things bowed. And and how we're going to you know for whatever the given set of repertoire is how we're going to how we're going to approach it. Yeah yeah so I was like the the wind serenade 's a lot. I mean you nine the stress on the door shot but I don't know the other two. Yeah so I. I did the when I was in Grad School. I think that was the first time I did it. I put together. I think for my so instead of doing you know a recital that was. You know a compilation of another performances. That I conducted with the Wind Ensemble and with the Orchestra. I just put together entire separate recital and I did a work for brass ensemble. That a friend of mine roads The Wind serenade that And then the Strauss first horn concerto with a Tuba soloist. Yeah Yeah Yeah So. I was actually at the same time as jaundice. Caesar John Caesar is now the two best with the Seattle symphony and I wanted to do a work with a soloist and he was like fine finding a regime. That has something I'll do it and he's like what do you think of the Strauss and I was like on Tuba. Sure it actually sits really well and I was like I was sold. So that's how we rounded things out but yeah I guess By loving the nineteenth century started real early. So is there a recording of the Strauss somewhere? I'm as a Horn player. I'm curious what it sounds like he. I think I've got someone I got one somewhere I can send you. It's probably attached to video so totally disregard the video just closure is enlisted. And I should say that it's it was a transcription for wind ensemble. So it's not a it's not the orchestral but it's a decent transcription. So Yeah I'll I'll definitely send that your way. I'll make a note and so once the once the does does get their stuff together. Get your paperwork done with the You know what's what's on the horizon for Nineteen Oh my gosh. I think I think both J. C. N. I. R. Like. Let's just make sure that this gets moving. I peek is he's on the faculty at Su. And I've got these other groups and I'm I'm really at a place where artistically I've taken on about as much as I want to tackle for myself Just because I don't WanNa feel like I'm cheating anybody and I don't WanNa have to sacrifice my preparation time either. Just because you know I I never have enough time to sit down and focus on the stuff that needs to be focused on. I love to see a lot of the later. Nineteenth Century works like I said we did Beethoven seven but I'd like to get into like some of the Rachmaninoff stuff. You know some of the really like when you get the orchestra that's really starting to expand. Once we have funding to be able to pay an orchestra that size. I think that's you know. Even like a Mahler one would be awesome. But you know that's five ten years down the road baby. Let's the money I in the multi. What's up the the broom? Serenade COME TO MIND YOUR. I think I think I had the brom second serenade kind of been my shortlist. When I was planning the Windstar in AIDS. They're they're really really lovely pieces and you can get away with doing them with a really small group too. Yeah Yeah I was. I was listening to interview with Joshua wiler Stein. Who runs a sticking podcasts? And we're actually talking to him next weekend but he was taught he. He does a Chamber Orchestra in Switzerland. And he was talking about doing doing Brahms with them and their chamber orchestra so they have they have the you know. The minimum wins by the naval much. Smaller string section. He was talking about how that totally changes the texture of Brahms which is which is he also said. That's that's the ratios that he that. Brahms was writing for absence done. I'm really excited to start to start. Maybe hearing Brahms with a much smaller string section with much promise wins you not so when I was first getting this idea going and I was approaching various people about playing games. There was a musician who made a comment to me. such to the effect that there's a reason you don't hear those recordings on the radio anymore and you know maybe but. I think I think there's a lot of validity to changing the numbers of players. Changing the equipment. And when you think about the fact that you know that was the sound that these composers were writing for. I mean when you hear the end of Beethoven seven and the horns just note but up by I mean there's nothing like hearing it on natural horns man. I mean like that I mean that's the sound that will stick with me until I die that that was what Beethoven was writing for. So you know exploit it. I think I think there's something to be said about common practice. Obviously but you know fresh years. It's always a good thing. So do you have any intentions of exploring composers from that period? Who aren't as well known. Hartman was one I I am but I probably not I I think just from a marketing standpoint. I WANNA I wanNA give the group a little bit of the liberty. I and some standing in the community before I start kind of going to some of the more unknown and I think really as far as programming goes. That's kind of what I do with my unsettles. In general both with Euclidean with the the heights band when I came into the group's musically they were not a really decent shape. There was a lot of reteaching and reformatting how the ears work with with both of those groups and so for the first year or two that I was with each of those groups. I I stuck with repertoire. That was maybe a little safer or that. They had done pretty recently just so that I could kind of re conceptualize how the group listens what I kind of prioritize musically but not from a standpoint of needing to totally start from also having to teach them a new harmonic language or new. You know stick with stuff that they know and then you know after you refine them a bit then you can start to throw in some new stuff after them. So I I I love new music I do quite a bit of new music and commissioning and but I I do it after. There's been some growth and I know it's kind of safe for me to introduce those elements the group so short answer. Yes but probably not right away and once I once I kind of get things up in moving then I'll do some pretty heavy research about what you know. Some of the unknown stuff looks like One of the some of the things you've done with the other groups to to to get them up to speed to to raise the musical bar in general you know the thing about working with community groups is you never. I mean there's such a spectrum of of a lot of things you know of age of musical experience and musical ability musical training and so I'm I'm always aware of like maybe hyper aware of what. I'm what I'm trying to teach them next. And I think one of the one of the great things about working with community groups is you. You can't be successful with those kinds of groups if you're not a good teacher. I mean there's just you know you can do something gesture that will be effective. But you know if some of the members haven't been in front of a conductor who really does anything expressive you know. I mean the first person that I had auditioned for me in the heights band. She came in with an Alto Horn and she said I picked up at a garage sale six weeks ago. And I'm learning to play it and I'd like to join your group and I said okay. I think I saw a picture of these book sometime. And she played and she was okay and you know I said sure why not and eventually. She ended up getting some lessons and getting real horn. Things worked out all right but you know I if I had a nickel for every time I had somebody come in to audition and say look you know. I used to play. I haven't played in five ten years or you know I I played in college and then real life happened or you know. I never took lessons that I really enjoyed playing. I'd like to join so really for me. I have to start from the perspective of how do I reach the most amount of people without leaving? You know people who aren't as musically experienced in the dust you now. I mean I've got people in both groups who have masters degrees in performance you know. How do I keep them interested without totally isolating? I mean the whole point of community music is that it's it's for everybody. It's meant to be inclusive. You know how do I how do I propel them without totally isolating the others? And so I think part of it is being really aware of how you program you know. What are you putting anthem a programming standpoint and really? I think teaching them how to listen was the first thing for me you know. Can you find the melody who's playing the Melody? Can you sing the melody? You know and just starting from just bare bones. You know this is where the melody is okay. What else is going on? Where is it you know? Who else is playing the same part that you are? And as time progresses death stuff that I don't need to address anymore you know instead. It's okay I can hear that the melodies over there but I'm not sure how we can help them you know. Are We playing too loud? Are we not loud enough? You know. And that's where as conductor you step in but it really is being mindful about how you teach these elements you know. How do you prioritize what they need to know to survive? I you know. What are you sacrifice in rehearsal either because there are other elements that are more important? I mean we could on the you know first concert that I did with either group. We could have talked about things like note. Length things like you know the way that brass players articulate. But you have to sacrifice those things. Because it's really you know. Okay this is how you shape a melody. This is playing the melody with you. Okay can you hear that? You're maybe not all doing the same degree of shaping strings. You'll a little bit more and so eventually over time that starts to build up and then you don't have to address those things as directly anymore. You can move on to some of the more nuanced things. I'm finding that. Interestingly enough the band does better retaining those things than the orchestra does with the band. Rehearses or performs probably. I don't know forty weeks out of the year. A really So the orchestra has a more typical. You know they start right after Labor Day. They take a break after we do our holiday concert and then we rehearse from January until the beginning of May and then they're all for four months and so when I come back in September. I re teaching a lot of things but next season. I'm adding a fifth concert to their schedule. So that that'll kind of take them into the middle of June and then the strings kind of always have a preseason rehearsal that I do with all of them just to kind of get them familiar with the more difficult stuff that they're gonNA see through the season So I'm hoping to minimize the amount of time that they have off without totally over committing them. I think we run a really fine line with community ensembles. You know everybody's kind of everybody has their own ceiling of what they're able to give of what they're willing to give and you know everybody wants to learn but they they don't want to necessarily be committed to okay. You have to be at absolutely every rehearsal you have to be. You know 'cause that I mean real life happens and when you're talking about people who aren't getting paid or who aren't getting a grade that's for some of them just getting them to be you know somewhat regularly attendant is a pretty big ask so when you're trying to think about expanding even further it's it's tough but I think I think the group is going to benefit from it in the long run is when they don't have to hear me re-teach the same concept over and over and over again anyway we'll see it. Sounds like a lot of a lot of what you're doing in the rehearsals that you were just describing is is almost just making them aware of the things that they may not be aware of if you know if they don't You know get to that point their studies if they don't have somebody tells them that before that You know you're both shaping the phrase but one group is shaping the phrase more Just sounds like a lot of making them aware of these things and then once they once they not listen for them. I think that really opens up a whole new world while I've worked with a lot of community groups across the country and it's not uncommon. Unfortunately you know I. I don't know if you know maybe high school. Educators don't address it quite as often or or kind of what the underlying issue is but a lot of people I find. Just don't know how to listen and I find a lot of people don't know how to practice big issue One of the things so this is my fifth season with the with the band and one of the things that I've started doing is As I listened to the rehearsal recordings that I take each week. I type up notes and I send them notes and they've been really receptive to that idea. I ask them before I started. Bombarding THEM WITH PAGES BACK. But but they've been really responded. You know if I ask them to mark something a certain way but what I've actually started doing is before I get into the you know can measure thirty six. Do this I start by introducing a concept. You know something that I noticed didn't go particularly well in that week and I'll say okay. How do you practice intonation? You know. It's not just a matter of sitting down with a tuner? Yes the Tuner Health. Tuner is step one but you know talking about things like Pitch tendency you know. How do you figure out what your pitch tendency is or what your pitch tendencies are And so I'll start each set of of of notes for the week with some kind of concept you know how to crack this. Whatever it is. I think they'd work on that week and then I'll give them. You know several pages of notes for various fixes. You know things that I want him to have finished before rehearsal or things that you know as a group we need to make sure that we tackle for the next rehearsal and they've been remarkably receptive. I mean I I sent probably six or seven pages of notes per week but I think I'm able to do that because I can get that detailed with them and I've gotten them to a point now where cerebral early they. They understand what I'm asking of them when I can when I can be that specific with them instead of okay at measure thirty six. Listen for the melody you know. Listen for how the Solo Trumpet shaped this particular phrase and when you answer in the next two bars shaped the same way that that I think warrants. How long my notes are best? Yeah I think that's that's a great idea you know that's a whole other step beyond working in the rehearsal is in a sitting down with that and and putting in the time putting in the efforts and then send me the notes along. I'm sure that that really really shows between rehearsals. Yeah and I I think in a lot of ways it. It's all about expectation what my expectation is from them. What they should expect from me I mean like I said everybody's got a ceiling but I think I think with both groups. I'm so fortunate everybody is very receptive to the programming ideas. I've got everybody is receptive to the idea that it doesn't matter to me personally where you start from musically. It doesn't matter to me. The level of training it doesn't it doesn't matter what matters to me. Is that you get something out of rehearsal that it's a positive experience for you and that you're interested in learning and getting better if you get those three things out of participating in my on. Sambas and we're doing something right and and I've kind of naturally. We did he pull out that way. It unintentionally but you know there are some people who just want an easy experience. But you know I was honest when I was hired for for all the ensembles. You know intellectually musically you know I need to be in a place where I feel that I can keep growing to and to keep doing the same old marches in the same old. This and that doesn't do it for me you know. Is there a place for that? Sure am I talking about totally cutting that out absolutely not but you know. I'm not going to do the same medleys over and over again. I'm not GonNa do the same marches you know. We're not GONNA do the same or Kestrel transcriptions. We're GONNA do new stuff. We're GONNA bring composers. Who have written brand new stuff that there are no recordings for. We're going to figure out how to play it because intellectually and musically that's what's stimulating to me in an. I need that as much as I think they need it. Now that's him. That's that's very convincing and I'm glad I'm glad they took off on that you've been able to you to show them that works well and I think too you know for those of us. Who aren't you know working with top tier second tier groups. You know you. You have to find things that are stimulating to you. Also so that you don't stop growing you know. Find stuff that you can continue to learn from your groups can benefit from. But you know. That aren't totally boring to you. Because once you are no longer stimulated then you start to check out when you check out. They smell that. And then you're done it's like what's the point of even making music. Oh finding ways to keep yourself engaged and you know there are more and more composers out there who are willing to write. You know the Grade. Three and grade for music for the amateur ensembles who are willing to come in and and work with the group and talk about how they compose and you know. I think I think we need to be more open about approaching people you that for us. You know the composition students you go to school with a composer as you know the area whatever. The case may be further. The further. The music for that onset will be a part of that. It's not just. It's not just the top tier orchestras with not just at the schools that you can. You know that you can be part of that of that legacy if you WANNA use that word. Yeah and it's it's about creating experience for the ensemble to because then all of a sudden they're like. Wow this guy is the one who wrote the music and how we get to play this for the first time. Isn't that exciting? And and that it's about the experience it doesn't have to be the most exciting piece of music or the most challenging but it's about creating the experience for your for your ensemble own members regardless of where they're playing Is this something you do with this. That we've been discussing is something you do with both groups or more with one. Yup so I've been a part of probably somewhere between fifteen and twenty commissions now either You know as a sole Person approaching a composer. Or as part of a consortium so I'm actually for next season I'm heading up my first consortium by my Not by myself. But I'm kind of at the head kind of wrangling. All the members of a very good friend of mine Tony Man for Dona. Who is the composer based in Michigan has composed a lot of really interesting music for video games and he's kind of transitioning into some more traditional writing? He's writing a an oboe concerto for really good friend of mine. Jonathan Thompson down at the University of North Texas and Has asked me if I would give the premier next next year which is really exciting But I also have to get orchestras onboard now so that we can pay for the whole endeavors. So but you know everybody's totally amped about the performance Tony's a great writer Jonathan Great Player and You know I just. I think it's important to involve the more amateur ensembles in processes like these two differently. So yeah no I I. When I was Hiram when I was at Hiram I was lucky because the funds for projects like these were a little bit easier to come by. But I'm finding that issue pitched the projects in the right way and you. You validate how the project is going to be. Paid for in the future It it's much more palatable to the boards. Yeah it's it's not as tough with these groups as I thought it would be. So how do you have you? Have you described that? Excuse me my dog is groaning? Click garonor got it. Pay attention to me love me. Yeah I mean first of all when I'm approaching I mean I approached the the composers about writing works the way that I approach any programming Which is to say that you know we program the music that we believe in you know. I would never approach a composer whose work I don't like or WHO's I shouldn't say don't like whose work is not artistically palatable to me doesn't speak to me yes In in the same is true. I think of the guests artists that I choose to work with. Also you know. They're such a great pool in the city. But you know I think there's something to be said that okay. We're involving somebody from out of town you know. That's a big draw for people. You know to be responsible of something new like assets. That's a big selling point. I mean maybe not for some workers just some people are not as keen on new music. But you know I mean for me I'M I. I always try to stress that you know I would never try to involve somebody in artistic collaboration whose work. I don't believe in you know bottom line and so I think with both groups now. I've kind of accumulated enough political capital that they trust me to know who I'm getting involved in and then what I try to do is especially in this case where I've got not one but two people coming in from out of town you don't try to see what I can set up with other universities about either getting them in for masterclasses or you know whatever we can figure out based on the time that we can get them in town for so it. It helps ease the burden on any individual group that way. So it all depends. Yeah Yeah when we were talking about earlier working one big part of working with community groups is that you have the the range of you know beginners as well as people with performance degrees and we talked about how you approach that in rehearsal How do you go about programming for those groups together that music that's challenging enough to grow but not You know impossible carefully. No I mean I- i- agonize over programming Just because you know I'm constantly thinking about what do I want to teach them next? What I think is is the right thing to teach them. Next what peace do I want to use? And how does it fit into the architecture of the season or several seasons? And you know I when I saw when I started with Euclid I did. He did an arrangement of the Vaughan Williams English folk song suite a couple of other smaller things and then the browns academic accessible and the Brahms was a total stretch for them. And I didn't I didn't realize going in how much of a stretch it was going to be. But it was one of those things where they sat down and they said you know there is no way. We're going to be able to play this and you know I tell them I tell both groups all the time. It's about expectation you know. I'm I'm so careful with with both of them about how I program and you know to to make sure that I don't over program but that program in such a way that it's very clear that extending the bar higher and that I'd never am. I would never put them in a situation where I would. I think that they would sound bad. You know I would never give them something. That's so hard that it would be absolutely impossible for them to get it prepared. You know so it's about you know yes. I know this is hard. I know that it's going to be a lot of work. I don't expect you to play every note on the page but you know and that was another issue too you know when we were talking about teaching them how to practice. It's it's also. How do you figure out what you personally need to leave out? You know. You don't need to play every note? You don't need to get bogged down in that. Sixth run of sixteenth notes. If you can only play the eighth notes or play every other note whatever it is you know there. There are ways to simplify it. So that it's approachable and that's the thing you know. I try to stress. You don't have to play everything you do have to practice it. You do have to make your best efforts N if it doesn't work for you. I think one of the best things that I learned as a player in in college was when not to play for various reasons. Wen to just not get in the way. It's the same thing I mean but like I said in a lot of cases the training is just not to the point. Where that's at inherent thought. Just see all these notes and they think. There's no way I can do that. So just you know. Constantly Gradually raising the bar without totally overwhelming people. And I think that's a very good thing to say out loud because it's the You don't have to play every note because it's something we're like. Oh we have to play every single note and they may not realize that it is. It is allowed. You know to skip a little bit and I think that's a good thing to put out in the open and say this is something you don't have to worry about it. You know we're do do your best to get this At this there will. You never want to isolate anybody. You're never I mean because especially in groups where there are so many personalities and there are so many ability levels you know you never wanNA turn somebody off or you know. Give them an experience. That would suggest that you know maybe performing at a non solvable is not for them. But you peep. It just doesn't occur to them that you know they don't have to play everything you know. You play what you can. This is how you simplify it. And you know the the point is that they should. They should feel positive about what they're doing and how they are contributing and they are making a contribution not that they're just not good enough to up with everybody else and that's that can be a very tough thing sometimes. Y- otherwise we get in that idea of you know the black and white you're either contributing or you're not you're either playing everything perfectly or or it doesn't matter you write in a wrong. Yeah exactly and we WANNA WE WANNA wait that Now this is a very good point. Thank for saying that and the same is true of conducting too. I mean you know our ensembles. Want to assume that we're right and hopefully we are most of the time. But you know I think even greater than that that it's you know my interpretation above all else. The ensemble is totally part of the equation. And I I tell both groups that I work with and anybody that I step in front of really that you know I have an idea of how I want things to go but you know I would say. Probably at least half of the time. Sometimes an ensemble gives me a response that I wasn't expecting artistically and I actually prefer whatever I hear from them over what I had previously decided I wanted. You know. It's like they're just as much part of the equation. It's it's not as you know I'm the conductor and because I say so it shall be you know. Bring to the table. Let's see where we meet and we can make some decisions together. Orchestras is is a player in the game to. It's not just it's that teamwork aspect. I say I want to do this. Do it no. It's yeah yes no Karnal L. A. Lot Of what you said is reminded me you know. Oh okay so I'm not the only one who has i. I have a Community Orchestra Music Director of in a lot of the things you said. They very familiar. Well I mean and I think I think that it's important in the conversation that we're all having over the course of time to involve conductors. Who are working with all kinds of groups. Because you know when we're first getting started a lot of us are starting with either the High School Orchestra or the group and it's like you know some of the advice that we're receiving from our teachers from our wherever is great when you're facing the problems of working with a second Tier Orchestra but when I've got these musicians who like can barely play in some cases like how do I. How do I handle all of the various issues that come in so it's a lot of start out working with groups like this? So it's we all struggle agree. I would say most of US start out. It's the exception that that it skips ahead. Yeah so what are some What are your. What are your Christmas programs like coming up all my gosh. The the band has a program. It's featuring a lot of secular winter stuff nearly holiday themed like alone and some home alone alone is good music. Yeah I mean you I. I'm a big fan of like I'm not in the Christmas spirit until I've heard like home alone and Charlie Brown you know once I've heard one of them I'm good to go. So yeah they're doing some home alone and some five eight Maria and a couple of other things The Orchestra we have had a collaboration with a local. Dance Troupe. They've I mean. Since before I came into the picture I think but they've got a couple of classes of dance students who come and do excerpts from the nutcracker and you know some other things I think at this point. I've probably done the entire nutcracker but I've never done it all in one sitting though but it's a good time that we do some sing alongs send you know Santa Usual Sticky stuff that gets people to come in Raleigh. Cheer Yeah Sleigh. Ride in Christmas festival in. It's not Christmas without Leroy Anderson. Oh my gosh you know and I I totally on that bandwagon. Because I think I start pretty much all of my holiday programs with Christmas festival and I finish them. All with Sleigh ride they've kind and it was totally unintentional but they've kind of worked their way into my programming traditions. I guess for better or worse I guess because everyone's Everyone's always doing something. You know the Hollander busy time for everyone and I mean the issue too so the ban the ban. I actually started having an actual season with them for the first time this year. The group when I came in didn't have a home there. I mean we've rehearsed in one of the local schools but they're auditoriums are so busy that we never get space to perform in them. And so we've kind of always been kind of at the mercy of whoever wants to hire us to play a Gig so we actually found an auditorium That's affiliated with the city. That were named for and it's decent so. I actually programmed a legitimate season for them. We had a concert on October twentieth. We shared a concert with the Cleveland. Winds last weekend so I was in the middle of preparing for that concert in getting all of the holiday stuff ready because we do holiday performances every Thursday between Thanksgiving and Christmas so there are no more rehearsals I rehearsed the whole batch and then we do the same program at a couple of different places around town So I was really tight with rehearsal time given that I was putting two programs together at once and so it was really important to me that I kind of put stuff that they knew pretty well that we did regularly. I wouldn't have to spend much time on and then some new stuff for the audience and for the Arctic value. I suppose I'm wondering also talk about and I haven't listened to the to the interview that you did But I saw that Problems with academia is that academia general that we talked about earlier or in the way that conductors are in academia as students who I think part of it is part of. It is what we talked about earlier. I think I think there's another part. Institutionally where you'd I mean we talked about. How a lot of the academic jobs for conductors. Don't look the same as they used to. And I look around and you know there are some pretty large programs pumping out. Dma students whether one per year or two years you know there are some studios that have six or seven DMA conducting studios at any conducting students in their studio at any one point. And I just wonder if we aren't doing a disservice to those students you know when we're preparing them for one outcome you love the academic outcome and the jobs just aren't going to be there you know and it's like so what's the answer you know if we don't bring in students we lose our funding but we're pumping out students who are in some cases even going into debt to get this degree for jobs aren't really going to be there when they get out and I I don't know how well we're really preparing conductors to go out into the world and create art in a space that doesn't involve the academic realm so and that's why I'm really hesitant about going back at this point anyway just because you know I'm getting to do new music now. I'm getting to collaborate with nationally known people you know that you know. I don't need DNA for that. And if it means staying out of debt you know all about avoiding more student loans at this point you know so I yeah. I think when we discussed the academic problems over on on that show. It was more that I think we need to be preparing students to function as artists in this world. Without thinking that the academic jobs are GonNa be kind of a fallback plan you know. How do you go into the world and create something? That's totally new on your own. That can stand on. Its own that you can. Then you know I think a lot of us I mean I. I don't know what the academic programs look like now but when I was in school there there were no music business classes. There were no you know. How do you market yourself as an individual artist? You know there was none of that and I think even even what is out there for students now. I don't think it's enough. You know because now that we have all the social media you know you hop on instagram in you know anything. That's like Hashtag conductor. I mean you get stuff from all over the place and it's like how do you effectively market yourself? How do you? How do you stand out amongst all the noise and I just? I think I think we neglect that part of the music education. It's a new problem. I mean I don't WanNa say that it's a new problem but I think with the way that social media is changing everything. I think it's a it's a problem. That's rapidly changing and I don't think that we're doing enough for our students to be able to keep up effectively for them on the landscape getting a little bit more complicated. It's not just graduate. Assistantship music director anymore because there are so many conductors so few ensembles and but there are also many more opportunities to to break out of that and to do things that are not that we wouldn't have thought of twenty years ago. Sure a you know I think you know for any given search you between and this is true of faculty positions. Also you get between you know fifteen hundred fifty and four hundred applications and it's like what do you do to stand out and it's it's really. I think at this point you know. What have you done on your own? What have you done as an independent artists? It's work that you believe in. We're going to place over again. That's great Yeah it's it's about how do you what is your artistic vision of the future. Look like how is it different? You know I really I would like to believe in. Maybe this is an unpopular opinion. But I really think that we need to give a serious revamp to what orchestral concerts are in the music that we perform in the experience that we provide in the interaction of it all. I really think that in the next twenty years. We've gotta come up with with a serious revision inning of what the concert experience looks like. Franz humbled performance. Could you describe kind of you know if you have anything in mind? What you what you think of. Well I mean I'm not sure I think I think that a lot of it can come from who we collaborate with. I just did the Sison Marimba concerto which is pretty teeth for Christ's sake for Marin strings. Yeah I did it on friend's recital. That's that's nice. But you know who who says Marimba Concerto your? I mean. It's like I think if you if you WANNA show programmer percussion concerto because nothing more than a percussionist running around and doing all things. I think I think we need to do more programming. That's outside of the concert hall. I think we need to do stuff. That's more interactive during the concert. You know whether it's you know with electronics or with with parts that are written for audience participation in mind in in various sonic ways Ways that we can get audience members engaged before and after they leave the program. I just think there's too much that's being maintained because tradition says so. That isn't going to work for much longer. I mean I've worked for organizations and I've been hired by organizations where I've seen the previous programming and you know I'm very upfront with them. And it's like you know if. I had a Friday night free in somebody gave me free tickets. I probably still wouldn't come here that no I think. I think that's a really important point. You know if you can't get somebody who is a classically trained musician interested in what you're putting out how. What's the likelihood that you're going to be able to get the average listener involved either unless we work on getting them more directly involved in the process? You know when you mentioned my opinion idea that might be in your hospital or but you mentioned the percussion concerto is great for running around because you can and you can see it and I'm GonNa Marketing Committee and we've been talking about this a lot because You know almost every other that say entertainment if you include you know. Tv in most concerts and musicals and the symphony and the opera almost everyone has a visual component. That's really really prominent and symphonies just don't and our tradition is is your you can watch the orchestra and that's fascinating in. Its own way but when you have an opera you're not just listening to it. You're also watching things that are designed to be looked at for the just for the sake of the visuals and almost everything else. And you're you're right. I love watching percussion stuff because it's exciting. It's not just musically but it's it's physically exciting to watch and You know that's that's always an avenue that that some orchestras do. They put a visuals and we just did a new. A new peace with with visuals and Here and I I I loved it. I love the music and I love the visuals. But the visuals really helped me. Connect and know what was going. 'cause you know instead of a forty five minute piece in my brain. The visuals added one more thing. So I can remember the bits of it throughout Because I had one more sense engaged and I think that's let me something necessary going forward for a lot of orchestras in a lot of music groups because we are used to having a visual stimulus all the time we never you know maybe a couple of very rarely do we sit down in a dark room and listening to music and do nothing but listen music except when we go to a concert it's such it's such an artificial way to digest inexperience will and you also have to think about that. You know the orchestra itself is also a very visual thing especially with with my group. Something that I'm trying to work with them on is that you know The music you as you play. You can't just sit there and be a rock and player instrument. You have to show each every emotion that you're bit fit. The music is trying to convey in. You're playing the just by doing that alone. You're adding an element to the performance. That takes it a step further. And that's why I think some of you know the greatest orchestras in the world. Are you know part of what makes him so great as it? You don't even have to have the sound on. You literally can look at them on Samba and understand exactly what they're playing. What the mood is you know. And it's not even can conductor. That does that that the musicians and then of course watching them work together as a as a unit is watching an orchestra. Truly work is a unit. It's amazing you know one of my favorite things to do. When I worked with the tile here in Springfield Springfield symphony was to go above the orchestra into the catwalk and watch the orchestra from the top down and that that is the way to listen to the right of spirit that tells you a lot that tells you a lot. I think I think you're right. You know why. Why do people go to a concert? You know they wanNA feel the energy in the room they WANNA be a part of that and and the audience is very integral part. Because there's the energy that's transmitted from the conductor to the ensemble from the ensemble to the audience and the audience. If you're lucky gives back right but no they they wanna they wanNA feel that. But I think I think you're right in that when you know we think about kind of the history of orchestral performance you know a hundred years ago when there was no TV when there was no social. Anything you know going to. A concert was the social thing to do. You know that's that's what you did. And they would they would be eating and talking and it wasn't just right Eye Toscanini. Love that by the event but but now. I think you know given people have more choices with what they can do with their time with when they have so many organizations that are are begging for their time you now what are we offering them. That's going to make them choose us. And I don't think I don't think that orchestral performance as it has been is going to be sustaining. Not I mean maybe for another twenty years and I could be dead wrong but I just. I feel that we need to start doing more. And I think you know it doesn't necessarily have to even be total you know institutional change is one of the pieces that I'm doing with the band on our holiday concert is an arrangement of. I'll be home for Christmas. But it's brass choir and brass players stand. You know and I think just something simple like that. Visual change is is a great place to start it. Highlights the brass players It shows exactly it shows what's happening it. It changes something enough so it's not just the same visual image the entire time. Yeah and one of the things that I love doing is I love programming pieces with different instrumentation so that people have to get up and move and it's not not because like I need to add minutes to a concert but it's because you know suddenly there's a piano moved in or suddenly you know. Three quarters of the clarinets have left. Or you know just because I want people to wonder what's going on and then I want to give the masonic experience to back that up but I think that's a way of keeping people engaged to you know we can't just be one piece turnaround bow okay. Second piece turnaround bow. I don't think I don't think that works. And something that we very often forget especially as conductors. It's our it's our job to prep the music at their job. You all that stuff. Is that the the the experience of everything. The experience of the performance is not just music music music. It is the breaks between it. Is You know hanging out in the lobby before after. It is the pre-concert Talk. It is talking during the concert. All of this is part of and so like you just said Getting the audience excited for others a pin on the stage. Now what's what's going to happen you know that heightens the effect of the of the coming peace in if you bring the piano on stage before whatever piece says the piano that changes the audience sees it. Because now the piano's new thing and maybe they listened to that just a little bit more and so yeah it's it's really a much more dynamic in potentially dynamic experience than we than we usually seem to think and you know we do get. We get caught up in the weeds. Szott yeah and and I have to say. I'm guilty about that too because I will. I will browbeat myself over every last detail. Like you know if I've got a piano on the last piece in the first half. Do I bring the piano outright? Before the peace starts do I leave it onstage for the whole first half you know and and I wrestle way more than I probably should with little details like that but again I really? You know any decision that I make like that I have the entire conceptual will experience in my mind. So now wrestling is worthwhile. I just I just saw concert where they had in overture in the piano concerto and during the switch they had to bring the piano up from on the unlike the the pit lift and it took like a good format it was and it was dead silent and I was just sitting there like wow. This would be a great time for the conductor to come out and talk or this would be a great time to to do. Just do something do something anywhere. I mean and there's been a lot of times where I wasn't planning on making a comment about something and all of a sudden you know. I mean this last Euclid concert we had. I think not one but two people who were not back from the bathroom when it was time for the concert to start. And I'm you know I'm backstage and I'm looking around and it's like are you kidding me like did we not know that you know. He's going to be a concert today but I ended up going out and kind of previewing the first half while they slid into their seats. And then we got things well. I wasn't intending to talk. But you know You also don't want to draw attention to people who are rolling in late either just just going to waste a couple of minutes while our gets on stage right right right right. Well at least you noticed that they weren't there before before starting yes in that. I started making a list and checking it twice a year. Yeah I think we have just two more questions if if you start well I mean. I think we already talked about that. We did. We did a little bit but I love. I love New Music Now or something. That was written a long time ago. That just isn't performed anymore. Are there any particular pieces or composers that you lovin admire that you wish had more time in concert hall? I you know I. I saw this question on the list of things that were potential questions. The Euclid Symphony last spring did the Camille sense on first symphony. And I in my opinion and I didn't really know the work too too well but it's such a great piece. It's witty it's lovely it's got it's got some really fine moments and I think I think it gets way overshadowed by the Oregon Symphony. Save that that's not a great piece but I really. I enjoyed studying it. I enjoyed teaching it and I enjoyed. I enjoyed what they gave during performance. another composer is David Maslenica. David just recently passed away. I think far more Recognized for his wind works his window tumble works but We just did his world music on our last concert. Insa thought eight and a half nine minutes. It's it's a great way to feature a Horn soloists. David just really knows how to treat a melody. He he will write a very simple melody or we'll take a very simple bach melody and will totally rework at transform. It orchestrated in such a way. That you just can't help but love the experience. I think it's unfortunate. He did write more orchestra. Works but his win ensemble. Works are great and they're challenging. They're really challenging. So I think any time I can find an excuse to program his music. I'm right there. Maybe we'll have some transcriptions you know. I've heard worse things Awesome and that Matt if there was If you could erect a billboard with some advice to to every conductor would see on their way to work every day what would you? What message would you send out to them? So one of the things that I've started doing recently is driving to rehearsal in silence and for two reasons number one because I want to focus on what I need to. Do you know what I want to accomplish in how I want it to steal for the players but more importantly because I just I take a moment to remember how thankful I need to be that I get to do this. You know and it's it's something I remind my players of every once in a while too you know. There's never a time when we are not fortunate to get to do what we do. You know and regardless of what level you play at regardless of who you're in front of every moment is special. You know even when you're bummed about. How rehearsals going even when people aren't focused even when you have had a rough day and you have to put it all aside because you know it's time to go make music I've had quite a few players who have had various life. Things happen to them recently and their spouses have come up to me and said you know Marks a totally different person when he came back from rehearsal. Because that's that's what news it can do for us. And so you know y'all we might be worried about where we're going to go in our career next and we might be worried about. What's on the next program? Is this performance gonNA go well but every chance we have an opportunity to make music is special and we should never forget that awesome real. Thank you so much for joining us. I have someone who'd like to say. Hello she bothering me. This entire time. thanks so much for for actually for reaching out to us on for. Yeah Yeah. We're talking with us today. Thanks for having me appreciate it guys. Thank you so much for joining us today for this episode. And for all the episodes you've listened to in the past and all in the future. We really appreciate all of our listeners. Thank you for interacting with US suggesting guests. This is exactly why we do this. You can find everything on our website at Podium Taipa wordpress dot com and then we share everything also on our socials and on our email list as well. If you'd like to support the podcast monetarily. Please head over to Peter on dot com slash. Podium Time Pot. Madison's Italian was performed by Stephanie. Liquidity and Beethoven's Aikman overture was performed with a check National Symphony Orchestra.

Brahms Beethoven Euclid squarespace Europe Luke Scott Seton Grad school matt Matthew Salvato Strauss Cleveland Pops Orchestra Akron Euclid Symphony Orchestra University of Akron Wind Ensemble Jeremy Chamber Orchestra Lakewood community college
S03 Episode 03: Misdemeanor, Meet Mr. Lawsuit

Serial

1:03:03 hr | 2 years ago

S03 Episode 03: Misdemeanor, Meet Mr. Lawsuit

"Serial season. Three is presented by recruiter the smartest way to hire later during the break, you'll hear from the CEO of a rapidly expanding matchmaking service and learn why ZipRecruiter is rated number one by employers in the US based on hiring sites with over one thousand reviews on trust pilot, try ZipRecruiter for free at ZipRecruiter dot com. Slash cereal. Previously on cereal. We're trying to get rid of cases if somebody is offered to plead to a misdemeanor, you take it. Wonderful. Don't worry. I'm not. I'm not charges. It doesn't matter. You're fine. But I have to take the jail because you hit a policeman and yes, there's lots of people on the floor, and there is another woman kicking her. Why. Why. Doors. Oh, me too. With that guy. For miss American life and WBZ Chicago, it's cereal. One courthouse told week by week. I'm Sarah Kane. A while back Emmanuel and I went to a meeting about community policing in Cleveland. The police department had invited people to a banquet hall for workshop. Big tables filled. The space representatives from the police department were sprinkled throughout and each table had a moderator to keep things moving. The group is supposed to answer a bunch of questions about what kinds of problems they wanted police to deal with. My table was populated with rule followers. They dutifully work their way down the list of questions. If kids are hanging out in an abandoned house in your neighborhood, what should the police do about that? I would hope that they would start by talking to the kids and reminding them that some people have to go to sleep and get up and work the next day and be a little considerate about movies. Oh boy. Thank God for a manual. He was sitting a few tables to the east of me, and he summoned me over there because his table brass tacks, gotta trust a lot of young African Americans males in particular. We are afraid of the police officers. I'm just going to be honest, I have this guy was an attorney, the civil rights cases, a police commander sitting at the table lamely responded to him. That's a broad brush. That's a broad brush. She goes now you're not afraid of me. You're not afraid of me. We, we just met. We just miss Hannigan. Exactly. You see me see me here today unless you, this was the struggle of the table, the citizens wanting to talk historically culturally structurally, the cops wanting to talk specifically personally, procedurally, the tables moderator was stalwart. She tried her level best to keep everyone on task, but there was just no way can have meetings. But as many as you said earlier, we don't do a good job getting spring. I'm sorry. How do you. How else do we send out to get be back? How can we engage more people in this process? I wanna know wish responsibility or would write discipline to the police get for harassment the community internet. That I will make sure that. Send me just before we go. The city Cleveland police department has been corrupt for over seventy years. When when you go back in kinda miss Wright city over seventy years has been Karuk win. Razan police here. They need to be in here here you'd send him. I said that. This woman saying it, miss rice is Samaria rice. Her son was Tamir rice. You've probably heard his name before he was shot and killed by Cleveland police. A few years back when he was twelve years old. Cape been playing around with a fake gun in a city park. Someone called nine one one. The police drove up on him, shot him in the stomach within a couple of seconds. Whenever you talk about police or to police in Cleveland? Timor is is right. They're not below the surface on the surface, his killing caused a civic spasm between police and the public that still painful and still unresolved. So in Samaria rice shows up at a meeting about the community's expectations from police. She speaks with dreadful, moral authority. I, I didn't understand what miss rice wanted from this meeting. She didn't seem interested in the state admission of the workshop list of questions. What a community because it's going to be. The reason. What this does this November aggravated because that's what this meeting should be about what you have to stand that. Topics that have to be addressed. And so we we have decimate. No, that's the main. That's the main topic. Well, so you add stuff. Anything else? Full mass. Oh, by the way they think, no, because all of that falls under there in. That's, that's only thing in all of that. The force of under their one of the two police officers at the table jumps in. He says, which I completely get. How can you help us do that? How can I hope you. She's laughing. That's when I got it that there's something absurdly wrongheaded to her and to a lot of people in Cleveland, Moseley blog people with this Ernest sounding question. How can you help us? Do that summarizes saying, why are you turning his back on me? Why is it my job to help you do your job? The way you're supposed to you're the ones with the cruisers in the handcuffs and the tasers and the guns. She sang for God's sakes physician healed. I self. A persistent slogan in Cleveland, even four years after his killing is Justice for Tamir. The case was investigated by three different agencies, city state, and federal the mayor appointed his own panel for four investigation. None found that the officers broke the law. Then county prosecutor handled the case with the delicacy of a lumberjack, calling it a quote, perfect storm of human error, mistakes, and mis communications. It should have come as surprised to no one. When a grand jury declined to indict. Technically, you can argue and many police officers and prosecutors do. The Justice was applied in Tamir rice case, but it doesn't feel that way. Instead it feels like an open question, haunting the courthouse. If you're harmed by police, what does it take to find Justice in court? That feels like Justice. One way to try is by filing a lawsuit, suing the police. We're going to Euclid Ohio a little Burg on the east side of Cleveland to meet with my client air miss Spencer. We're going to apartment and we're going to talk to them about what happened to them. Couple of weeks ago, I'm in a car with Paul crystal civil rights attorney ten days earlier. He'd sent me a text. It was photos of a guy in a hospital bed, his face hugely puffed up on one side, his skin, so taught from swelling that you could see the hospital lights reflected in his cheek. His left eye was submerged by the distortion. The guy's mother said he'd been beaten up by two police officers. She'd found Paul's number called him up asking, is there anything we can do? Paul talked to her talk to Aramis, who said, sounded cogent and sincere. He had no criminal record to speak of few misdemeanor convictions. But nothing violent, Paul decided this is a good case, and we're going for me, right? You actually don't have business with them today. This is for me. It is for you cry. Thank you. You're welcome. You know, a lot of people in the building. Aramis face hadn't fully healed when I was still blood, red hit a scalp above his eyebrow. How long have you lived here? Three years. Three. Where'd you live before? I was living one hundred. In cleveland. You could is safer cleaner, calmer than a lot of neighborhoods in Cleveland, especially if you're from a dangerous neighborhood. Save got a teenager. You're trying to keep out of the streets. You might send him to his honours grandma on Euclid, put him in school. There. Amazon's building is called Richmond hills. An apartment complex built in the nineteen sixties mcmil tired out by now. Irma's lives on the fifth floor. He walks me through his version of what happened that day. The police have a different version which I'll get to later. But Aaron says he'd come downstairs to bum a cigarette from a friend on the fourth floor, and a couple of cops were coming down the stairwell at one end of the hallway and they saw him standing there knocking at his friend's door. So sorry, they can do that. Oh, so they through the window, they saw me through the window. I was standing at the door knocking at the door and they came and stopped me right here where we stand so they did. They talk to you from there. Just they were basically telling me to stop, you know, just to stay still and they went to ask me some questions, whatever. And it was to them basically how y'all stand and ask me for my idea, actually decision for weapons Aramis had seen cops around the hallways before. So that was an surprise. They work security here. Moonlighting technically they're off duty, but they're in uniform and they have full police powers. Let's normal. By the way, lots of cops do this in cuyahoga county. An had had run ins with the police before and mostly they'd gone. Okay. Not counting the time. He says he was jaywalking in east Cleveland and aqap stopped him, and he ended up getting wacked in the knee repeatedly with a Billy club interested in put in jail for the night. But mostly he felt like he knew how to successfully navigate these interactions with the Euclid cops that day. He figured his best strategy was to cooperate and get it over with. He wasn't doing anything wrong. He didn't want to give the cops any reason to suspect otherwise. So he says he showed them as ID told him. He lived upstairs. He said, they asked if they could search for weapons, which means a Pat down there feeling around for a gun, an Amazon allowed it. He didn't have a weapon on him. He wasn't worried what he did have on him was a blunt a marijuana cigarette in the pocket of his jeans which the cops found in which I'll get back to because this measly blunt will become an outsized player in the story. Anyway. Next thing Irma's new. The officers went to arrest him the officer on this axe me to my hands by my back. I told them with him onto restful accent. I'm like, what am I under arrest for? And they never told me what I was on the wrist for at that point, says he stiffened his arm, the arm that one of the officers was trying to put behind his back. So he's resisting technically and he's also asking, why are you arresting me? What did I do now answer no discussion in day the one on your side. He was like, said the fuck up in the me and my boss and I went down a recent, my buzz immediately like this. The other officer tried to tell me on the ground, I guess as if he was gonna under procedure, how did you know if you resist arrest, they have a right to you to the ground, put your hands ponder back, but they didn't put my hand on my bed at one hand behind my back and then other one to kick in my face while I was on the ground, the kicking Airmax. Says is what caused the damage to his face broke his orbital bone. That's a bone around your eye. A public defender in Cleveland told me everyone's always whining about a broken orbital bone, but in Amazon's case, it was bad enough that the u good ER folks transferred him to a bigger hospital in Cleveland to make sure as I would be. Okay, anyway, amasis down on the ground. One Cup is kicking him in the face. Another cop is holding back his right arm. Irma's left arm is pinned underneath him. He can't get it. Free Aramis got down on the gross hallway carpet to show me. I didn't need them to do that, but it seemed as if he wanted to replay each step, which I could understand it only been ten days since it happened. He hasn't gotten his mind around it on my here. My head is right here a blue and his leaking from face going down, dropping to the ground at this. So what happened was he pays me right here. So I'm like, this tells me where here pays me a Monday. Taes me in the back of the and tells me a mother tests for a year, and then I find. A total. Like I'm going to let you put my hands by back then me and they put my hands behind my back. Pick me up. Is that your blood right there. There was a smear of blood with big drip going down the wall at exactly the height of air. I, which isn't very high by the way Irma's about five, six, five, seven. I'd say and slight. The police tased him about seven times not the full deployment each time where the wires come out and everything. The lesser tasers setting where it shocks and burns Aramis said he could feel electricity shoot down his legs. There's the Barnum marks from Aramis pointed to some spots at our feet where the carpet fibers were melted and clump together. As a writer marks. Oh my God. Burnt them, my skin just like a burn through the carpeting. So. Said, while all this was going on the police recurring at him, he was cursing back. He said, I just kept asking them, why? Why are y'all doing this? What did I do to deserve this? He says they would not answer. When I asked Aramis if he'd been scared or enraged, the word he used was uncomfortable. He said the whole thing made him feel uncomfortable, which seemed like an oddly muted way to express being kicked in the head by a cop. He also said he was trying not to let what happened, distract him, mentally, not let it take him out of his everyday life. He said he'd just turned thirty a few days earlier. His family and his girlfriend had gathered around him to chairma. He tried to celebrate. He said, I got the sense. He wasn't ready to stare too hard at what had happened for now. He'd leave it at uncomfortable. There's a security camera in the hallway, right near the door. He was knocking on, but it was pointed straight down when we saw it. So it seemed quite possible that even if it were working at the time, apparently it wasn't. It would have produced footage of the floor as the cops walked out of the building. He says they were talking shit to him. It wasn't remember exactly what they said, but something like one more false move. I'm gonna make it even worse for you the next time, then they put him in an ambulance. Backup in MRs apartment. We talked about that marijuana cigarette he'd had in his pocket to MRs thinking the police had no right to arrest him in the first place. That's why he stiffened his arm because he says he genuinely did not understand what was going on because of the amount of we had. It was not a arrestable charge so I can never be resistant restful when blunt that's nice. Impossible. Blend on me. I believe me. I have situations like this before we're officers will take the wheat, though it in the grass or throw it away, flush it down the toilet. Because there's no probable cause to Rhys in sometimes officers rights you take? I'm not, I, I still couldn't be arrested, no matter no matter. I mean, I sure that's true in Euclid though. Maybe that's true includes through anywhere. That's three is a misdemeanor offense and it's not arrestable. Is that right or so. As the only lawyer in the room. Paul explained gently as he could that Aramis is incorrect and you could Ohio. Any amount of weed can be charged as an m. One first degree misdemeanor possibility of thousand dollar fine, six months in jail just over the city line back in Cleveland. Aramis would be correct. One blunt probably would be a ticket at most, but not here in Euclid. Ohio takes home rule very seriously. Cuyahoga county has fifty nine different municipalities. Each one has its own set of ordinances. Most of them aligned their city codes with Ohio State law, which treats less than one hundred grams of marijuana as a minor misdemeanor. But two of them treat any amount of marijuana as an m. One Broadview heights little town down south and Euclid Euclid made its ordinance harsher in one thousand nine hundred eighty eight. I'm not sure why, but it's worth noting that the city's black population was growing. Then for a few decades white people have been moving out and black people have been moving in. Now, the cities. About sixty percent African American Euclid city government, though city council, six out of nine members are white mayor is white. Police chief is White City. Prosecutors White City. Law director is White City judges white, and it's got the harshest. We law in the county just saying. The best Paul can do for airmiss really. The only thing he can do is to try to make everyone involved in sending air to the hospital pay on the drive back to Cleveland. Paul talked about what he would do next. He also painted what the city's lawyer would likely do next which he can do with confidence because Paul used to be that lawyer. He used to work the other side of these cases defending the government and the cops. He worked for the city of Cleveland, and then he was a partner in a law firm that contracted with insurance company is to defend against civil rights claims. Paul was good at his job and he made good money. He had to be m. w.'s convertible and hardtop. But after a while he couldn't stomach, it says he felt like he was working for the wrong side and started to affect his health. So he switched over. He'll frequently mentioned that he drives a Hyundai now, and then he'll say, and I'm fine with that, but he's not totally fine with that era. MRs case won't be huge money. Aramis wasn't permanently injured, not physically. But Paul thinks he can at least get him something maybe in the tens of thousands. There's a complication they have to take care of I, though before Paul can get a lawsuit going, and that's the not small matter of air-misses criminal charges. The Euclid police said it Aramis for four crimes, drug abuse, resisting arrest theft, and criminal damaging. Paul said that list pretty typical. So I'm hitting you with four charges. And so now let's negotiate down from there. So I'm gonna load you up. So this way over overcharges. So now I give the prosecutor a little something else a little bit more love to to to still get you to plead to something. I was confused as were Aramis and Paul about what the theft and criminal damaging were about until I read the police report, there's a page, long narrative in it. The cops describe an event with roughly the same contours as what air MS told me, but very different details. The officers didn't talk to me for this story and just to say neither of them has been disciplined for what happened that night. But anyway, in their report, they say that. After they confiscated the marijuana Aramis tried to take it out of one officers hand. They say Aramis was fighting with them, pushing them, but everyone was getting stunned by the taser in the process. They tried to take the taser away from them. That's the theft apparently. And that the tasers cartridge got pulled off and the blast door broken off that Aramis knocked one officers glasses off his face breaking them. They never mentioned kicking Aramis. They do describe kneeing him in the crotch and quote, closed fisted strikes to his face and head. Aramis has got to get out from under these charges strategically and quietly right now. I doesn't think he should have to plead to anything, but Paul thinks it might actually be better for the civil case. If he does play to something minor. And that's how air MRs looking at, he's like, look, I should walk out of this literally with nothing. The problem with that is if you just take this hard line, like I'm not gonna plead to even a minor misdemeanor. Some one of them I'm going to plead to. I think that's going to raise the flag that that he's up to something that that he's standing on principle and he's looking at sue you for the injuries. Last thing Paul wants at this stage is for Euclid to know it is being sued because if they know they will dig in on the criminal charges. So I step delay airmans was supposed to have his initial court appearance today actually, but they got it postponed by a couple of weeks to give his face time to go back to normal. I don't want him walking into court looking like he just got his ass beat by the police. Why? Again, because people ask, you know, so what happened? And if you go in front of the Joe, say people, you mean the judge LA, maybe? Sure. Oh, yeah. Yeah, young man. What happen to you and the prosecutor might notice you could police officers who happened to be in court that day. They might notice start asking around, Paul wants air mass to be unremarkable. It's just there to take care of these charges and go on home. Nobody. Deal. Second step hire a beard. Paul himself has to Lilo while the criminal case moves through the municipal court, he will not be shepherding Aramis through. Instead he's hired a dependable local attorney who won't raise any eyebrows in Euclid. Paul's farming it out in part because his specialty is not criminal defense, but more to the point if the folks in Euclid see Paul's name on the docket, the jig is immediately. They will know they're facing a civil lawsuit, possibly a big fat civil lawsuit because they will have heard of Paul already or else they'll Google and they'll see, oh, right brillo case, also known as one hundred thirty, seven shots case back in two thousand twelve to people in a car man and a woman, both African American, both homeless. We're driving past the Justice center. Downtown police said the couple of fired a gun out the window toward them. A subsequent investigation suggested the noise the officers heard might have been the car backfiring. They never located a gun. In any case, the police began to chase them, which is. Isn't that strange except for the debacle that ensued the chase wove through residential neighborhoods than onto the highway. And back off the highway twenty miles and sixty two police cars later, the chase ended in an east Cleveland parking lot where police fired a total of one hundred thirty seven shots at the car, killing both people inside one officer alone. Sergeant Michael brillo shot at them forty, nine times he scrambled onto the hood of the car and shot down at them through the windshield at close range. Sergeant brillo was indicted for voluntary manslaughter. A judge found him not guilty. There was no proof brillo had actually killed them. The judge explained in his opinion. It's possible. They were already dead. By the time he got onto the hood. The families of the two people who were killed sued. Paul represented one of them and the city of Cleveland settled for three million dollars. It was Paul's biggest media case also his biggest payout. Lately, he's been struggling a little. He's not into the hustle, isn't show up at memorial gatherings, looking solemn. It doesn't slip a weeping, relatives card. He doesn't have a website or do social media. He's white, which isn't always helpful. In this business air-misses case is an order of magnitude smaller than the one hundred thirty seven shots case or the Tamir rice case. No one's gonna shout his name during a protest. Paul told me the smaller cases they matter because they Ricky shea. He's watched a lot of people go through incidents like this. He says this beating will knock around inside Irma's head and then it'll rebound off of them out into the city. It's, you know, as much as you want to talk about how you know we need to come together as a society and you know, black lives matters. And all life matters and the, you know, the police have a hard job and. You got to listen to what the police tell you to do, and you got to obey the law, don't be a criminal. I mean, they're allied is now you've just created somebody who I mean, he's he's walking perpetuation of don't trust the police. He now knows that that happened and all he had on him was a blunt in his own apartment complex in his own apartment complex. Not late at night. No drugs, no 'alcohol, no gun, no criminal activity, but the blunt. And that's what happened to them that this will mess with him. You'll like if you stick with the story and we follow him, you'll see. I mean it it'll fuck with them. He has family. He has friends. They're all going to know what happened all going to see the pictures. And so it's it's for him. Now this becomes part of his life. Strep, this is this this. This has become something that. You know is going to be retold and retold photos. They're going to be shared and reshare you know, on and on and on and on. And it just is one guy. This one incident Euclid Ohio. A study published in two thousand sixteen found that reports of police brutality not only contribute to a quote spirit of legal cynicism. They also cause people to not call the cops when they need them. They make entire cities less safe. The researchers looked at nine one one calls before and after an infamous case in Milwaukee, the two thousand four beating a guy named Frank Jude. They found that for a year afterward, there were twenty two thousand fewer nine one one calls in Milwaukee and that residents in black neighborhoods, especially were far less likely to report crime. And at the same time that people were reporting fewer crimes, murders in Milwaukee, rose by thirty two percent. The goal of Paul's lawsuit, aside from getting some Justice and some dough is to force police to account for their behavior to answer for it, and I asked him setting his own livelihood aside, isn't it possible that his involvement could actually be hampering progress? Say Irma's went to the police department and complained to the supervisors or the use of force in the officers report triggered an internal investigation and say that process we're allowed to play out without the specter of a lawsuit, isn't it possible? The department would fix it self that is no, that's. I mean, I know you probably hearing people say, that's a great question. I love. That is a great question and it is because I mean, you know if I can even look broaden your question a little bit kind of what you're asking is will, but the way you're handling this, Paul are kind of how you're you're, you're CHA, ailing, orchestrating. If you will, you're denying the city of Euclid and the police department the opportunity to to do this right on their own and you're absolutely right. You're right. I am doing that, but that's because of distrust. If I were to kind of do what you're saying are we were to March down there and fill out a citizen complaint and talk to them about constitutional rights and excessive force, leaving it up to them now to to kind of say, well, you know what? Yeah, this was awful. We better do an internal investigation. We'd better do what's right, and and that just hasn't been my experience that just hasn't been my experience. I think when you do that, they don't own it. They lawyer up. It's never situation where like the city or the police, like, wow, you know, we really. Messed up. We need to do the right thing here. It's, it's, it's always, you know, what are you talking about? This was justified. Your client is a liar and we've got our insurance people working on it. Like I just I just have zero faith based on my experience that that would happen. Going to happen. This is what bothered Paul, the MOS twenty work, the defense side. He said the city's disdain for the plaintiffs, a person would follow an excessive force claim and right away. Paul says everyone would attack the character of the complainer not just publicly even among themselves privately lawyers, the gestures insurance companies, the police officers, the police chief, the mayor, their attitude was what kind of loser. What kind of scumbag would sue the police that's after the break. This is the road to hired brought to you by ZipRecruiter. Hollyoaks Goldstein is the CEO of three day rule, a personalized matchmaking service, their love agents, scour the streets of your city, looking for just the right person for you, and then they do the most painful part for you. The first date they take people out and see if they're a good fit for you. Asking them the tough questions so that you don't have to do. I did a match meeting with a guy. And at some point you ask what body hyper you must attracted. 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Try ZipRecruiter for free at ZipRecruiter, dot com. Slash cereal. That's ZipRecruiter, dot com. Slash cereal. Sip recruiter, the smartest way to hire. Right now. These past few years is an era of law enforcement soul-searching or it's supposed to be all over the country. Police departments are meant to be considering deeply and anxiously, whether they are using force properly, whether they are operating without bias, whether they're listening to and hearing the citizens. They police in Albuquerque in New Orleans in Portland, Oregon, and Ferguson Missouri in Baltimore and Cleveland after the hundred thirty seven shots case the one where the couple was killed by police after the chase, I, the Ohio attorney general investigated. Then the feds came in civil rights, division of the department of Justice, less than two weeks after Tamir rice was killed. They issued their report. The Cleveland police department was engaging in a pattern or practice of using unlawful excessive force among many other problems. The articles about the breadth and depth of the overall findings exhausted all the usual words scathing embarrassing staggering jaw-dropping the. The report was not all that different from the previous DOJ investigation of the Cleveland police a decade. Earlier, this time, the city promised things would be different in two thousand fifteen. They entered into a consent decree with the federal government. A federal judge would oversee massive reforms in the CDP. If citizen complaints, don't bring change. If internal investigations don't bring change. If criminal charges against cops don't bring change if Paul crystals lawsuits don't bring change, perhaps a federally mandated consent decree a decree. Just one click from Fiat would persuade police. That change is ni- perhaps not political nonsense. This is detective, Steve Loomis until recently. He was the president of the Cleveland police patrolman's association. The police union here Clevelanders of a certain political persuasion, including some cops, I'm sure just slap their foreheads in grown please. No, not Steve because they know bald headed, meaty fisted, Steve, Loomis. The guy who dressed convincing. Early in a Santa hat at the department's Christmas party. And as the dirty biker, hillbilly dude, when he worked undercover will say, whatever the hell he wants. Steve dental bocci, kiss my s with his bullshit. Steve dental back was US attorney for the northern district of Ohio. His signature is at the bottom of the DOJ report a report which devoted several pages to the sub standard way in which the Cleveland police department dealt with citizen complaints. We really don't care about civilian complaints. Not that we don't not that we don't care that we get that we don't. My laughter here is born of shock, not mirth. I'm not going to say I like Steve Loomis. I can't get there. Some of the positions he inhabits are too awful President. Obama has blood on his hands for the police officers killed in Dallas, racist, and anti Muslim tweets by CDP sergeant are the first amendment right of every American, etc. But I appreciate Steve Loomis. I appreciate that he's got a sense of humor about him. Itself. I appreciate that appears to be a true believer that he's sincere when he says, even the lowliest rookie patrolman does more to help this community than any other person in government. I appreciate that Steve Lomas gave us six hours of his time in one day six hours, sat there in his union office, packed with Trump paraphernalia. Also one or two cartoons that I'd call racist. He'd call political explaining his world to us, arguing with us congenial early. An aside to Clevelanders. He'll complain that the media only quote Steve because he's colorful and available Jose. Steve doesn't represent us. Well, it's true. No other Cleveland officers were permitted to talk to us on the record. And I know from off the record conversations that not all of them think like Steve, but that aside, Steve is the man whom the rank and file elected as their leader and spokesman he does or did officially represent the police. So here we are. I know we're activists stand on the question of reform. I know where a lot of non-activist stand on the question of police reform, but I wanted to know is reform even possible. Are the police willing as union president, Steve Luma's, sat on the Cleveland community police commission, the c. p. c. a group mandated into existence as part of the consent decree. It's supposed to make recommendations on new policies for community policing bias, free policing use of force participating. Sure. With a full heart absolute. The full heart. The the problem that we have on there was a time when you just literally had not shown up to a meeting for like a year. You want to believe the the rhetoric out there is in the newspaper, is that rhetoric. In fact, there's been a steady drip of articles in the local press about Steve spotty attendance at meetings, and the many calls for his resignation in one article, he explained that he'd appointed himself as a Commissioner because he didn't want to subject any of his patrolman to quote that farce of a commission still, he insisted he is not anti-reform. We can always improve on what we do. He told me and I'm happy to take that challenge on. But when I asked him about possible reforms in Cleveland reforms that are being discussed and implemented all over the country, he vigorously wacked each one aside slowing down, police interactions with suspects in hopes of avoiding the need for force. Everybody wants to talk about deescalation, and it's just a really sexy word for talking. You know, it seems like good. That seems good talking. She was good. What guess what? That's what we've done since the beginning of time bias, Steve would like to see one study linking implicit bias to police actions and. Reactions racial profiling. I'm not going to sit here and say that that doesn't happen somewhere else. And the world. I am going to sit here and say, and the city Cleveland, there's no way that it happens. It's not supported in fact, right. Our use of force policy is coming out in that thing is going to be atrocious more restrictions on how and when police can use a gun is going to endanger his officers. He said because they'll think twice they'll be afraid of getting in trouble for doing it wrong. And then it'll be too late to common complaint among police tasers people, you know, while you can't teaser juvenile. Okay, Tamir rice. Nobody wants to talk about it, but to raise his five foot, seven hundred ninety one pounds, right? He's twelve years old to Steve. The Tamir rice case is the perfect example of how people misunderstand and willfully distort what the police do, how their fixes make no sense to me the way Steve talked about the Tamir rice case. Was the perfect example of why. So many people in Cleveland, believe the police have zero capacity for self reflection, much less self correction. The officer who shot Tamir was new young still on probation. I pointed out that Steve himself as an experienced officer had avoided shootings by lowering his weapon. He just given me a couple examples. So is he saying in the Tamir rice situation, any officer would have done the same thing? You wouldn't have done the same thing you're telling me right now? You wouldn't. I absolutely would have done the same, not have done the same. So we would have done the same thing. You're telling me, listen, you wanna get into rice. We're going to get into rice. So it began Steve reiterated as he has many times that number one to MIR was a big kid as if that made him blame-worthy a child in a man's body bottomline, there's no denying that nobody can dispute that number two Tamir rice knew exactly why those policemen were driving that marked police car towards him, right? He is a product of the street. He is not a product of a. Loving home. His l. o. on, hang on. I did hang on and it got worse has savaging of Samaria rice, which I'm not going to dignify by repeating here. Steve has said, unkind things about the rice family. In the past. He also helpfully suggested they should use the money. They got from a lawsuit to educate kids about the dangers of guns. It wasn't worried about his tone or its implications, then he's not worried now he believes the facts are with him. We disagreed about whether the police drove up too close to to MIR, whether they drove up too fast, whether to MIR pulled the gun from his waistband, whether the shooting of Tamir rice was a mistake at all. Okay. We can disagree till the cows come home about what should have happened or why it happened. And my guess is we probably would in infect. That's fine. But I think we can all agree. It was a horrible, horrible outcome right from day one. I know you have. So what I'm wondering. Is, do you see any fixes? Is there a thing where you're like here isn't changed that I think could have avoided this that isn't only onto MIR? They haven't. It's absolutely on smear. It's on any suspect that gets shot by the police actions by suspects cause reactions by police officers, justified reactions, did police take away any lessons then from the Tamir rice case, I asked him sure. He said we always learn a lesson. So what is it? I don't know. He said it was in fact the only time I stumped him in our six hours together. I asked him several times and he could not come up with one thing. That wasn't too fault. It sounds like you're saying there's nothing that needs to change. That's what needs to chain. That's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that those changes need to be based in reality. What should the changes be? Not while land. Why do we fixate and focus. On to be rice. That's the bigger question to me is we want to change our entire profession based on a couple of different when you're saying, why are we fixating on these deaths? Because people are like enough is enough is enough as enough. They're saying it's one one is too many one accident like this is too many. Let's fix it to me. Rice was not an accident to me. Race was pulling a gun out of his waistband. All right. But by we're saying, he shouldn't have died for it. He shouldn't have fixed that. I, this is what I'm saying. I think this is what we're all asking, but what's frustrating is tell you how we fix it. We don't go when somebody calls us and tells us that somebody's at a rec center with a gun, we don't go. That's the only way to fix that. Right? I just don't buy that. Well, I. Okay. I think Steve might actually believe what he's saying here that police are never to blame for harming someone in the line of duty. If you end up dead or hurt, it's always because of something you did or didn't do it follows then that the only ones who need to reform our the citizens in the name of Cleveland's fifteen hundred patrolman, Steve Loomis is folding. His arms inside his petulance is also a threat. We don't like how we do business fine. We'll stop arresting people see how you like your city. Then it's the same stance. Some police officers have taken in Chicago and Minneapolis and New York and Baltimore, a cop out. Steve Lomas says, Cleveland's problem isn't rotten police or poorly trained police or faulty policies. The problem he says is under staffing and he's not wrong, even people who can't abide, Steve, Loomis agree that Cleland's police department is overburdened and undersupplied and poorly paid. This, of course is the meant a law enforcement everywhere civilians. We need your tax dollars, but we don't need. Is your oversight. A coda here. A few weeks after we spoke Steve, Loomis was replaced as union president. He'd been voted out of office and I'm not saying these things are necessarily connected, but eight months later, the team in charge of overseeing police reforms in Cleveland released. Some stats showing that during the first five months of two thousand eighteen police use of force in Cleveland had decreased by nearly forty percent compared to the year before it was too soon to claim victory the report said, but it was encouraging. Erna Spencer Lear here on this motion to suppress five months after he'd been arrested. Aramis went to court for hearing by now, the city of Euclid new. A civil lawsuit was probably coming, which is why. After all this time, the four criminal charges were still hunkered in his case file. As Paul predicted the city was unrelenting. The prosecutor was not going to drop them. Definitely not the resisting arrest. That's the linchpin charge. The resisting the one that could really mess up air-misses civil case because if Aramis gets convicted of resisting that could justify the officers use of force, not necessarily the excessiveness of the beating. It doesn't give them carte blanche, but it does allow the officers to do what they have to do to subdue a suspect. So if air miss has to eat that resisting charge, it could shrivel his civil claim. That's why the city won't budge on the resisting and why won't budge either instead today air-misses here on. Ocean to suppress. He's trying to get all the charges dropped by claiming that the police had no reasonable suspicion to stop him in that hallway. And then after they made the faulty stop, they had no probable cause to search him, which would make the actual blunt. They found on him the fruit of a poisonous tree. That's the legal metaphor. So no legal stop mill eagle arrest. No case when I walked into the courtroom Mary case, the city prosecutor said to me, you do know this is just a hearing, right, I do. I said, then she and the other lawyers left the room for a while. I sat waiting in the jury box Aramis the two cops MRs mother all set on the benches. No one said anything. I wrote in my notes. It's like a tomb in here that I heard a ruckus through the wall behind me where the prosecutor's offices people were shouting after a while. The lawyers filed back into the courtroom looking peeved. Mary Kay sent a couple of other lawyers sat on one side on the other mass and his defense attorney. The local guy. Paul had enlisted Speros Kganaka's. Judge. Debra lebaron announced me. And as I advised all the parties I hip sear Konate from the serial podcast who is asking to record these proceedings, MS caisson. This time, the city wouldn't request a continuance of this hearing. We have some concerns with respect to this hearing being recorded for public podcasts. It seemed I had been the cause of the ruckus. We have an interest in protecting the city of you play. Any flicker of a notion I had that the city's intentions were forthright withered now before I'd figured well, sure they're triangulating just like Paul, but I'd also assumed that they were at least prosecuting Aramis in good faith because they believed the cops believed he'd committed these crimes and deserve punishment. But you don't try to kick the reporter out of a public proceeding unless there's something unsavory about what's about to happen. Judge lebaron denied the prosecutor's request for continuance. They began the hearing would not touch on anything that came after the surge. So nothing about the resisting or the day. This was only about the validity of the stop and search Mary Kay sentence spirits. Cacus took both cops through it moment by moment. That's where the law tends to snap into place in an instant first up was officer, Shane, Rivera Hicks plane that he and his partner officer. Michael. Amazon have been working an off duty detailed day at the Richmond hills apartment complex where Emma's lived. He said they'd been working this particular detail for two years. There'd been problems in the buildings, drug trafficking break ins, and they began their usual, super the building starting at the fifth floor, the top floor and working their way down this all Aramis. He said, as they came down the stairs to the fourth floor, he was knocking on a door and when he was knocking on the door, do call anyone answered the door. No one answered the door at any pointed the individual key. Open the door to the apartment. He saying Aramis looked suspicious right then reasonably. So why would you keep knocking on a door? If no one's answering this is what burglars do in the building and knock and then when no one answers they kick in the door as I approached Yeston if you lived in the complex, you said he did, and I asked if you knew who lived at that particular apartment. And he said he did not. And Aramis was squirming at the defense table shaking his head stifled. He told me he was knocking at his friend's apartment door because he wanted a cigarette, his friend wasn't home, but his friend's wife was there asleep ama- says, she eventually woke up and did open the door. He says, she saw him being beat up and that the police told her to go back inside and she did, but airmiss can't say anything about that. Now he's not taking the stand as Laura, didn't want the prosecutor to get a crack at cross examining air mass prior to trial. So he's got to suck it up. Every defendant I spoke to while I was in Cleveland, eventually. When do I get to say my thing? When do I get to explain to the judge what happened? The answer often is never. Very anxious nervous and putting his hands in his pocket. So as soon as you saw us and he was advised a couple of times, take his hands out of his pockets. Did he take his hands out of his pockets just putting back in own three or four times. And how did you react to him putting his hands back in his pockets. Nervously. I mean, it makes a police officer nervous. Because typically when people keep reaching into their pockets at say, indicator that they have contraband or possibly a weapon on the person saying it was spirits. His turn also. Represent airmiss. If you question across the nation that are right. I tend to with my hands in my pockets and ask questions. I don't wanna make you nervous. Right? I don't have any contraband up capturing. Okay. Speros is a spirited attorney and energetic performer Speros tried to show that wasn't a menacing figure in that hallway, who's just a guy knocking on a door, joy this knocking post to. Right? He wasn't doing that. Was he knocking on the door? Okay. Knocking on the door. He wasn't screaming, right? Wasn't yelling. Let me in. What are you doing? What's going on? Nothing. Right. Okay. Next step officer. Michael amu- he seemed more comfortable on the stand than officer Rivera. He didn't sound nervous. He wasn't defensive approach Mr Spencer he was still at the door. I walked past him, and as I wrote him, I could smell Yoder marijuana. It got stronger. It was clearly coming from him and I stopped. And this is key to making the stop kosher, the smell of raw marijuana, emanating from air MRs person. It's what allows them to detain airmiss the prosecutor cements it in the record I in your experience is a police officer. Can you smell wrong marijuana in a bag inside someone's pocket and marijuana smell the same regardless of what amount of marijuana there? Sometimes it stronger than other times. Now what I smell right now. Reasonable suspicion. That officer AMI did not smell an unlit blunt wrapped in a baggy amasis jeans pocket. It's not impossible. He smelled it, but the level of confidence he's exhibiting here that he can smell any amount of marijuana in a person's pocket in the hallway of a building where I am certain marijuana is not scarce. No one in the courtroom seems to register any skepticism about that. Apart from Speros guys are basically bloodhound ability to smell marijuana, right? Right. Syria. Mr. I, I'll take that bag officer. AMI. Ad says, after he smelled marijuana, he asked Aramis if he had any drugs on him, he didn't say anything. He put his hands up like this. I said, do you have any drugs? He put his hands up like the end. What did you do after his hand surgeon and. Yes, I went into his pocket. One pockets us reaching into there was a small bag of marijuana was probably size. It wasn't very big draft. Innova each efficient beat of this. Hearing the cops are chipping away at Irma's, chances for success, criminal and civil air MRs. Scary door knocker he smells like marijuana seems nervous. He keeps putting his hands in his pockets. He lets me search him for drugs. It's all very neat. An all very different from what air says. Actually happened then comes one more a doozy right at the end. Mary cases squeezes it in during her closing this testimony was that he headed the outside of the pocket firts that he did a Pat down. He held bulge. He reached into the pocket of. Experience is like, what will woo a bulge where this bulge come from a bulge could suggest a weapon which could give officer AMI at reason to go into air MRs pocket, which can make the search legal, which can make the charges stick, which could hurt the civil lawsuit. Spirit says, wait up AMI out himself, never said anything about a bulge that did not happen today. He said. Yes. Said there was a. The judge says, I heard it. I wrote it down right here. That's in my notes. So no further argument. It was over Mary Kay. So looked very pleased at the end chatting animatedly with the other lawyers at her table. She knows everyone in the courtroom knows in the who you're gonna believe contests. The judge tends to presume the cops are telling the truth. So her side virtually always wins. Speros knows it too. He expected the police to say most of what they said today, but the bulge thing that was a new one out in the hallway spirits is still arguing. You can't just invent testimony. Penn doubt. Then when inside. Julia, do you think about it? Both I wear a d did not say that he felt involved spirits is right. I have the tape despite what the judge thought she heard officer AMI did not mention a bulge Bolger Nobel JR Speros tries to boost air spirits and when well. Right. As. This this ball is going to be an issue. So so I will. He just can't even if he can stop you for the marijuana. Doesn't mean he can go inside of your pockets and pull out contraband reasonable suspicion means he can keep you there and figure out what what's going on. Right? He can Pat you down for officer safety, right? But that would have been had a much thorough conversation on direct examination as to I patted him down over the top. I felt a bolt. We thought it was a weapon. We went in. That's the battle of the bulge now, so really know about them. Let me know about that. I'm serious though. Aramis his mom, Kelly is the only one who laughed at my joke. Aramis himself is brimming with frustration. It's been five months. He's having to fight criminal charges. He considers illegitimate because of what happened in the hallway. The building management stuck three day. Notice on his apartment door telling him he had to move out or else face a vixen. He said they told him the incident was violation of the buildings. Rules got an extension, but still he says, his girlfriend was harassed in front of the building. He thinks it was the same officers who stopped her. He says, she told him she stayed with upstairs, they restaurant a warrant. And today he's just listened to police officers Tele version of the original incident which bears little resemblance to his own. He said they asked him to stop from down the hall before they even got near him. They said, stop, don't move. He says, he never told him. He didn't know whose door he was knocking on anyway. Why would he be knocking on a door of a person? He doesn't know. They never asked you that question. Whose door this is never asked me that x. day stopped me in the accident. Search me for weapons. They never asked me and think about any drugs anything. So this story that they were tying in there today. That's completely false. They lied under oath. I'm, I'm sitting there watching them under oath. They live. Judge lebaron denied air-misses motion to suppress, which means that resisting charge is sticking not good. It's always something like that. The police always have the script with the prosecutor. Paul crystal o. hadn't gone to the suppression hearing. He was still trying to remain invisible in. You could, but Spiro said, filled him in and he'd read the judge's opinion which amounted to the stop the search, all legal. She even get to the bulge. She wrote the based on the suspicious door knocking and the smell of marijuana for good. If it's not the smell of marijuana or the smell of alcohol it, you know, he made a furtive movement with his hands or, you know, he was. He kept moving his hands and I wasn't sure you know, that's that's a sign that maybe he's got a weapon. He was acting nervous. And I think in fact, even in air MRs case testified that he was acting nervous. I mean, that's just. I wasn't there, but, but that's just scripted. I mean, everybody says furtive movements, everybody smells marijuana. Another phrase, you hear a lot in these cases reaching toward his waistband. That's where guns live waistbands in their written report. The Euclid officers wrote that was quote fighting with officers and pulling both arms together toward his waistband area and a little lower down. More strikes were delivered until Spencer, stop fighting and stopped reaching toward his waistband. Aramis had no weapons had no nothing tucked in his waistband. Why then? In the midst of a fight, would he be reaching toward his waistband? Because waistband is a magic word like furtive, like odor of raw marijuana. It plans too strong seed of reasonable suspicion. That blossoms into a tree of probable cause which can produce untainted fruit justified use of force in response to resisting a legitimate arrest. I asked Paul back when he was working for insurance companies defending cops with. Her he'd done the same thing you could was doing now when they could see civil lawsuit in the distance, would he meet with city officials are cops about doubling down on the criminal charges to try to stop the civil case from gaining traction. Yes, you know? Yeah, yeah. You know, you meet him in city hall made over the prosecutor's office. But that plan together. We your time at this kind of reluctantly is why. No seriously press some buttons. That's that's like, I shouldn't be. Why are you? Because. I mean. Lemon. You know, I'm doing my job. You know when I was doing that, I was doing my job and so. You know, I don't. I don't regret doing my job and you know, part of. I think as part of part of defending, the police in this dynamic is to, you know, to to sit down with them into to put that as much of an air, tight defense at the best defense that you can put together. And I, it hesitantly a reluctantly because you know, you're not. I don't know. Just. You know, it's, you know proud of it. You know, I mean, I'm not proud of that. Oh, I see. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. No, I didn't. I didn't. I didn't ask it as a way to be like, aren't you share? I didn't mean to do. I was. I was more asking practically, like, are you talking from whence, you know, or are you just like, I suspect this is what going are you like? No, I this is what's going on because I. No, I did this for many years. Yeah, yeah. This is not as apprising obviously it isn't surprising. What's what's probably surprising is is how it remains a constant source of aggravation and and upset at nece. You know, it's still hard to watch. Just don't like to see this happening in a courtroom people making payments on the stand that aren't necessarily accurate, and they know it. But they haven't. Of course, it's upset nece. If a police officer lies, what's more upsetting is when a system of laws and procedures kicks in to support sanitize those lies so that it looks and sounds as if Justice is happening even wager that the officers and the prosecutor and the judge, they'd all swear with consciences clear that air hearing was fair by the book. If Amos wants these police officers to be held accountable for beating him, he's now gotten the message. The criminal court is probably the last place he should look for help. A few months later, I got a call from Paul on my cell phone won't my God. I know I was driving in a car heading to the airport in South Carolina. The connection was terrible. Sure. Listen, this is like monitor from heaven. This literally is like this is that miracle? Because they've worked going to come off resisting. A video had appeared on the internet. Oh, wow. A white police officer pummeling a black guy in the street after traffic, stop sleeping. Punching a woman watching from inside a building across the street, had recorded in on her phone. Her child was next to her. Oh, my. The officer beating the motorist Michael amu- the Euclid we'd smeller. The video bounced all over the internet made its way into national news. What happens to a case then when everyone's paying attention that's next time on cereal. Serials produced by Julie Snyder Emmanuel Joichi Ben Calhoun in me with additional reporting by Italy, ES ski editing on this episode from IRA glass, Nancy Updike. Whitney Dangerfield is our digital editor research. In fact, checking by Ben falen sound is on mixed by stone Nelson, music clearance by Anthony. Roman Sut Lind is our director of operations. ZipRecruiter ads are voiced by Stephanie food. The zero staff includes Emily Konin, Julie Whitaker, Cassie Halley, Francis Swanson and Matt Tierney. Our music is by Adam Dornan. How Wilner with additional music from Matt Lincoln Lee and Dan rights. Our theme song is by Nick Thorburn and remixed by Adam doors special. Thanks to Amanda king Subodh Chandra Lisa Knoller, Melissa Georgia's, Jonathan Whitmer, rich, Kyle. Swenson Matthew barge might Tobin Steve back David Dowden Daniel heart captain Scott roller and Tina rotor of Yuka police department and Lynn Hampton president of the black shield Cleveland's African American police union. Thanks also to Pandora where you can listen to serial for free. The art on our website was made by Darius Stewart, Cleveland. Artists. He created the mural for this episode and by moth studio, they did the animation. Please check it out on our website, serial podcast dot org. That's serial podcast dot org were also, of course on Facebook and Twitter support for serial comes from ZipRecruiter, their powerful matching technology skins, thousands of resumes identifies people with the right skills, education and experience for your job and actively invites them to apply, try it for free at ZipRecruiter, dot com. Slash cereal. That's ZipRecruiter, dot com. Slash cereal cereals are production of this American life and WBZ Chicago.

Cleveland officer Aramis Paul Tamir rice attorney prosecutor marijuana Steve Euclid Irma Cleveland police department Steve Loomis Ohio Amazon cuyahoga county Steve Lomas
The Center Of The Milky Way, Rats At Play, And Geometry. Sept 13, 2019, Part 2

Science Friday

49:02 min | 1 year ago

The Center Of The Milky Way, Rats At Play, And Geometry. Sept 13, 2019, Part 2

"Science Friday is supported by married hotels married hotels has designed their hotels to push the boundaries of inspiration and stimulate the infinite potential of the human mind and let your mind travel at married hotels DOT com a member of Marietta bond boy science Friday supported by indeed dot Com. Are you hiring with with indeed you can post a job in minutes set up screener questions than zero in on your shortlist of qualified candidates using an online dashboard get started today at indeed dot com slash podcast. I that's indeed dot Com. Slash podcast listener supported W in Wisey see studios this is science Friday Plato later in the hour plating playing hide and seek with rants. We have a video of this. You have to see this. This is really cool. How do you teach them to do that and we'll talk about of course what neuroscientists can learn by studying the brain at play but but I I to the center of our galaxy the Milky Way there is a lot going on at the center of most galaxies is start with a hungry massive or supermassive br massive black hole you add some gas and dust and you get jets of plasma x rays other great bursts of energy and yes our galaxy? The Milky Way has has a big black hole at the center and it's emitting at small bursts of energy a few times a day but researchers writing in the journal Nature this week say they have have evidence of at least one big feeding frenzy over one million years ago a pair of bubbles towering above and below. Oh the Galactic Centre kind of mysterious here to explain more about why this is exciting news for space science is far heads a day as an astrophysicist physicists at Northwestern University Center for Interdisciplinary Exploration and research in astrophysics. He's also co author of the research on on this welcome to science Friday you will having meal. Can you give us a picture of what's going on at the center of the Galaxy. Take us on a tour if you will sure we're about twenty five thousand light years away from the center of the Milky Way and this the Milky Way senator is really an interesting twisting region there is obviously a massive black hole at the center of the Galaxy and then you have a very very large concentration of stars in there and these stars are orbiting around the black hole supermassive black hole and they have these crazy orbits that you don't find elsewhere so just to compare the the number of stars that we have in our solar. Oh neighborhood compared to the Galactic Centre you find that usually the causes stories about a few light years away from us but at the center is about something like a hundred times smaller distance the average distance between stars so it's a very crowded region of the sky and these these stars in abide with each other and so it's really the metropolis of the of the galaxy and we're sort of Komo more or less in the rural area of the Milky Way Galaxy way out there on the twenty five thousand lives a lot of crazy stars bunching together toward the middle of the concentration of stars Peking dry around go to black holies and so we now have these these the giant bubbles from what I understand it. What what do you mean by bubbles well? It's just a lot of material that he's actually covering over thousand light years around the center of the Galaxy so it's it's just it's this material is hot and it's we think it's it's expanding. there is in fact x ray emitting gas inside this sort of bubble of gas that is actually pushing and making material basically expanse so that's that's what we mean by by bubble of gas. It's just the material that is basically is produced by some by now flow or wind from the center of the Galaxy and that's what this this bobble is is telling us that there must have been a an outflow of really capacity activity in the nucleus of our galaxy about a few million years ago and we actually see this and that's what this is. This is this is about. Do we know why why it might have suddenly started a few million years ago my kicked it off. Well I think would think that it it could be due to who an outburst from the supermassive black hole so this kind of event happens quite often in external galaxies supermassive black holes elsewhere and we see actually structures like this in in other galaxies so so either the supermassive black hole produced sort of a win powerful wind there is actually eventually led to this sort of large-scale structure around some galaxy or it could be just a large large number of massive stars of all basically blowing blowing up at the same time and and then they produce use they an outflow to ideas and people are debating about these two different possibilities but a lot of people think that detected a black hole that was active a few million years ago and produce this this giant bubble of material is is is the center of our galaxy that black hole and it stars around it is it is it typical of other galaxies are different than the galaxy. I think it's very difficult any mature galaxy has massive black hole at its center and we actually see a lot of galaxies also showing these these beautiful immutable structures on same sort of scale size as what the bubble that we've seen in our own galaxy and so the event is usually he considered to be due to either active black hole or could be due to bursts of stars basically producing these these now i. I know there's another bubbler. There are other bubbles we've seen and the Milky Way even bigger ones than these called the FERMI bubbles. That's right. That's right so that makes makes it yet quite interesting because affirming bubble is a much larger scale structured and even the bubble that you're talking about the mobile would be maybe a little with more than a thousand light years across the one that we see the Fermi bubble is about something like twenty eight thousand lied years. I mean it's just tremendous. It's really the giant of the elephant the most the elephant in the in the in in the Milky Way Galaxy can't find anything else and that is a producing gamma rays and in fact what's really interesting is that this features that we see call seraing to the black hole could be the base of the FERMI bubble and that's one of the ideas that maybe and and it could be basically feeding and the FERMI bubble. Maybe there are ways that you can actually have multiple events that are constantly pushing the gas out in too much much ploger regional galaxy so it is I think we don't really know for sure that this is how they're connected to each other but I think both are relic of past activities in our get likely Senate so it's it's very likely that they do the two it really closely connected in a way now I know you've been studying centre of our Milky Way for what thirty years something like that what makes I'm just excited so exciting. Tell US shares. It isn't exciting region. I mean I I. I had a plan to really just study. The same region in the universe is huge. I mean you can do different things so it's not but I think one discovery leads to another discovery and at the same time you really want to understand what's going on so understanding something takes much more time than really discovering coming so in order to really figure out what's going on and there's always tastic instrumentation and coming up with different telescopes and you look at the same object basically in a different view and you really get a big picture of what's going on from different angles so I didn't really study thirty in just one wavelength them but I did different things and different structures but it is it is really interesting. You have a supermassive black hole. You have the highest concentration of stars orbiting around the black hole and further away and you see sort of Taurus of gas us cloud or being around the black hole and we think that some of the gases actually being captured by by the by the black hole and so you learn a lot about the the different structures in how the interplay between these different components of the Milky Way Galaxy and and so close by isn't the only about twenty five thousand years away for almost compared to the next sort of this galaxy which is kinda times way now and ask you this question because I think I know the answer but I'm going to ask it anyhow because this year we saw the first ever picture of a black hole event horizon are are we not are now in our is and that's what I'm GONNA ask about. Are we going to be able to turn that same instrument to the black hole at the centre of our Milky Way and get look at how much would you. I'd like to do that. Well one of the one of the main sort of motivation for building. Hd Horizon Telescope was actually to look at the the black hole at the center of our own Galaxy and of course med seven and I was actually disappointed when I didn't see see the image of the black hole coming from our own Galactic Center but so there to objects that they were proposed to on be observed served with the erosion telescope and certainly they have been doing a lot of work on on on the black hole at the center of the Galaxy and we I got the result and I think I can say why we haven't been able to get a good image so far the the the black hole at the center of a galaxy is relatively active. I mean it does flare as you mentioned earlier a few times a day and these flares basically fluctuates the the emission that comes from the black hole so it makes it very difficult to image to image this yeah that's exactly Yup to really wait until it becomes really quiet and then when you have a better opportunity I think that's that's one of the world's. Med seven that black hole is actually active but the activities not on a hour how long timescale it's at a much larger longer timescale and we can actually image those galaxies of for the way in some ways better because they're they're quiet whereas here galaxies senators is is happening in a way and a lot of people are really interested yeah well. We'll have a we'll have you back on when when we get that photo come from the drugstore we'll we'll. Have you talk about it. Thank you very much tuck a day for taking time to be with us today. Actor fire heads a professor of physics in astronomy at Northwestern University's Center for Interdisciplinary Exploration and research researching astrophysics. We're going to take a break and when we come back. Does your pet like to play games. And how can you tell if it's having fun. We want to hear your stories about animals knows playing you can give us a call eight four four seven two four two five five eight four four seven two four eight two five or lease a voice comment on science Friday vox pop APP. We're going to talk about how you can train a rat to play hide and seek again. I see this video is up on our website. We'll talk about it. It's really really cool. Stay with us. We'll be right back back after this break. Science Friday is supported by married hotels. Researchers have proven that travel challenges the mind into thinking in new and more complex ways. It's amazing what disrupting routine with a simple change of scenery can do for your creative process so to push the boundaries of inspiration Marriott hotels. Els Are designed to reveal the true potential of the human mind. Let your mind travel at married hotels DOT com a member of Mary at Bonday. I'm clemmie about inhale and I'm here to tell you about the openers protect new podcast from WNYC studios up nikiel exile in which people share stories about the classical music that gets them through that lives people like threat to San Mendez Musicians GIANBATTISTA and Wynton Marsalis goyal girlfriends. I mean I'll do so and our very own Alec Baldwin. It's taught mix tape part. Sonic love love letter kind of like a daily musical journey of the human lives. Listen for free. Wherever you get your constant sign up at openings protect this science Friday Plato? One of the most popular things about the Internet is spending hours days. Maybe even years watching videos of animals at it. Play videos of animals are in you have watched just amazing. You've got the classic cat playing with a box genre but you can also watch dog playing Jenga seriously google it and you can type in pretty much any combination of animals and the word playing and you find a durable little videos like a baby not rough housing with a lemur incredible stuff out there while also why am I telling you this because my next guest a neuroscientist actually gets inspiration for for his work by watching those home videos ideas about how to study animals interacting in playing with other animals and humans and in his latest work got this week in the journal Science. He describes playing hide and seek with rats. Yes we have that for you my question for you our audience. What Games do you play with your pets? And how do you know when your pet is having fun. Here's what you told us on science Friday vox pop APP so so I have a little Boston. terrier named Pablo in this dog loves fetch when he sees the ball his eyes dilate. He's obsessive. Every ten twelve throws. I have to hide the ball just so he can catch his breath and I'm assuming he's having fun while doing it because as long as you're willing to keep their own the ball he's willing to agit when I do a partial water change in my aquarium the Harlequin Eras Boras are three of them will swim alternately up into the stream going against the current of the incoming coming water and then they'll stop and get washed back down into the tank and then they'll come back up again kind of rotation sure does look like they're playing. I Have Fun Fund with my cat when she brings me toys and looks at me like she really really wants me to throw them and I throw them and she gets all excited and bolts after it like well. Well we call or Nasr Cat as NASCAR NASR cat. That's safe for me to play with your pet so that was Kevin from the bad. It's the from Pennsylvania Tamra from Colorado. Tell us your stories science Friday vox pop apper. Give us a call eight four four seven two four eight two five five eight four four seven two four eight two five five or you can tweet us at Sei fry one Agnosio Nacho Sanguinetti is a neuroscientist or a scientist at the Humboldt University of Berlin and one of the authors on that research published in science and have linked to that and videos you want to see the video rat rat hide and seek and with animals playing well. It's up there on our website science Friday dot com slash animal games science Friday dot com slash animal animal games welcome to science Friday back Sanguinetti. Thank you thank you I. It's a pleasure talking to you. Were you really inspired to study the animal play by videos on the Internet well so in love with been looking into play behavior for a couple of years a few years ago so love published research about tickling rats and how rats vocalise and create this joy laughter's when they are tickled by a human an experiment or so we've been looking for different ways of study play behavior in in animals and it is true that anybody who's had a pet before knows that you can play different things with your animals as some of your audience has described fetch is a classic game you play with the dog and if you you teach dog how to play fetch then you'll need to hide from him because he will come with the ball to you like all the time so we've been looking into different place and luckily a youtube is a treasure trove of animal behavior. The fact that anybody has a cell phone and a camera in their cell phone allows us to see so many different went animals and so many different animal behaviors just by going into youtube. You know let's let's we want to get right to the rats playing the game. They met you mentioned that you tickling. They make certain sounds we have. We have a sample of these sounds modified so humans can hear them. Wow what what what was that Dr Sanguinetti what were here I remember that is a rat being tickled and having this joy vocalisations which are these patients in the ultrasound range so humans winds can hear them and that are associated with positive emotions with a playful behaviors and playful encounter between rats and that was part of the things is that we found in our study when we tried to put now rats to play a more sophisticated form of play the game known as hide and seek a very old game Amo game that is shared by many different cultures in in the world. I you know I didn't really until I looked at the video. It's up on our website at science Friday dot com slash animal emel games. I could not believe that you're anybody could play hide and seek with a rat until I saw this how it's amazing. How did you get the rat to learn how to play this? So the first thing to point out is that you cannot grab any random rat in the lab and teach it how to play hide and seek as you know like like all dogs. Don't learn new tricks so you have to use rats that are very young for example because we know that play is something that animals anymore do more when they're young and do less when they are adults right so the first thing you need to do is to really bitchy the rats both to to the experimenter turn and to the room where it's going to play and then slowly but surely you can teach the rat how to play the game for example in the game of seek seek what we did. We had a starting box where the animal was placed to start the game and then what Annika raincoat who was a masters student running experiments that he would get far away from the from the rat and then the rat would come close and whenever the rat can close she would tickle the rat and play with the rat and the rat chase around her hand and in some way given the rat a social reward and then what you do was to increase slowly the complexity exited and start hiding veteran better from the rat until the point where we were able to close the starting box and then opened the box remotely and the rat would have to search in this thirty square meters room for for for Annika so so the reward for the rat is not a pellet food. It's getting tickled. Yes exactly there's no food reward know what reward is just the social interaction with the experiment and we know that social interaction is a very rewarding thing thing like when you deal with children they liked to be to be cuddled. They liked to be played with so this is the same for for our pets and for or rats in our study and so that's what you really studying. Then is the social interaction feature. What what did we learn about humans from that well? It's it's very important to study social interactions. We we're still trying to figure out the social brain and how a healthy brain conducts social interactions between between animals so it the play is one one critical example of type type of interaction. There is distinct social play when an animal place with another animal and from studying these kind of things we will get closer to understanding standing social interactions inhuman in how the brain controls social interactions in humans and humans are an incredible case of social interaction action. They are basically species that has this incredible social network. We've evolved to have like this this big families this big groups oops and to to have this this big social networks around us so to navigate those social networks. We need a brain that allows us to to go go from one place to another end to understand the people around us and how they behave what the other people can do and what you can do with them so this is is a very important topic to to understand our brain and how our brain volved lot of reaction from asking people how they play with their animals. I Have Claire writes. I find I find it with my dog does they you hide to treat throughout the house while they wait into the bathroom. Afterwards you let them out and say find it. They then search sniffer the treats we had to be more obvious with the treats after we got a beagle to give the lab a chance so couple of dogs. let me let me go for a reaction into a to Melissa in State College. Pa Melissa Hi Pleasure to talk to you. Thank you go ahead okay. I was saying earlier earlier that my definition of play for an animal is when they initiate it then you know they're into it when they return to it voluntarily like dog bringing you a ball same with me they would me now. That's not very ambiguous or playing tug-of-war. The animal was tug if you go woo and they hand it back to you so that's one of the two clues and the other is the body the body tension if it's a stiff tension and the defensive they're not having fun but it's a bouncy tension there full of bounds then. I think they're playing yeah. I've seen that with dogs. I play with also the same kind of thing you can really really tell one and when when an animal is playing can't you yeah I think those things that the the audience member mentioned are critical things for example simple. We know that rats when they are displaying state she said something about this bouncy nature so we described a type of behavior the rats do when their plane ain't that is called in German frozen sprung which is translated into joy jumps which is the rats are jumping in in place basically with four legs so this is one way to tell when the the animal has some some positive response their thing that the audience member mentioned which is very interesting interesting is the willingness to continue the game to continue playing and that is something that we found in our paper that is that we found that rats not only cared about social reward at the end of the game but that sometimes they would even try to evade this reward so that they could continue playing so sometimes the red was hiding and the experiment or would find the rat and would try to introduce the social reward the rat would leave leave and hide somewhere else again so they would really try to extend the game could. Did you ever try to trick the rat like play a joke on the Iran. No so that is something that I've been thinking about for many years since I'm I'm also an amateur improviser and comedian but is how to how to try to surprise rat into something that would be funny so so I've been thinking like very unprofessionally but many years you could share services okay so so my idea of a joke for rat is that so you train the rat to always run a mace normal maize where the objective is to find cheese. Let's say right right so then you train the rat and the rat is focus it gets into the maze. It's Mel's cheese and tries to find it and then again and again and again until at some point what you do is to you do the same thing but then suddenly all the walls are made out of cheese so then I imagined myself in the position of the rat just running running around like trying to find the cheese and then that moment when you realize you know that moment like so that's what I envisioned myself but this is of course just my fantasy into one day trying to understand some of the basis of of humor and surprise you say oh you're into the theater you into doing Improv. Do you think you could have an act with your rat on stage. You know doing hide and seek people love to see that Oh no no but I'm GonNa tell you something. I know some improvisers in New York that have shows for dogs so they pretend to be dogs and dogs are the audience A so. It's not it's not that far away that you could try to to do performance with with animals themselves where where it's a very interesting topic because the how how one place a role in how animals play roles in their their natural lives in the animal kingdom whether there there are in the role of of of a prey or Predator accidentally or if they're in other kinds of social situations that there is a relationship status and hierarchy these are very interesting questions that neurosciences starting to near about thirty years too late for Ed Sullivan you could have done on an IRA plato this is science Friday from WNYC studios as an all. You have to be of a certain age. You remember Sullivan Yeah. I I got it. I didn't know if I was allowed to laugh. I never laugh on this. Show you know so. Where do you go from here? What else can you do? Do you want to teach the rat to do other things or another game or something else to further study or you. Just keep keep following. This maze May's so to speak so there are several things the first thing that we we like to point out is that we think this paradigm of playing with the rats and playing hide and seek with the rats allows us to prove some of the rats cognitive capabilities like we want to figure out like when the rat is making decisions and when when the rat is choosing to hide in a certain location or in another location or for example where is the rat choosing to search for the experiment or so these are very interesting. This thing is a very interesting paradigm to tackle questions like decision making motivation when is the rat motivated truly to to play for example so that on one hand and on the other hand of course we're still looking for inspiration and games to try to teach animals to to who to use those games as a way to in a very naturalistic way for understanding the brain at play right well you know we've talked a lot about birds recently and how intelligent birds are have a tweet coming from from skip who says I lived for a time with crow name Hubin. If I was on the phone onto long she would go to the modular plug at the baseboard an unplugged the phone now birds when we talked about birds recently how how smart they are having you you say you're looking for other animals to play with. How about a bird think about working? Wilbur Cross are are also known to play. If in fact act I will challenge the audience to go to youtube and tried to find videos of Crowe's plane in the snow. There are some videos where cross use the snow on UH windshield of a car to slide down and then they would just go up and slide down again and they also use roofs for things like this so girls are very interesting animals indeed but you're sticking with your rats for now. We're out. We will see we will see. I still have to decide what my future holds in Euroscience. I just finished my PhD here and I'm trying to to find new topic so I'm very excited sided about that so so Improv is not a day job yeah. I can't prompter. No no no no no. I have a serious science career with with a side of Improv addiction but it must help you think creatively I would think you know oh absolutely absolutely I think like it's a very creative endeavor and I treated in some ways in a very similar way as I do all my other work because I do take it seriously and I think it's incredibly interesting and it's a very very interesting way of also fearing fearing now things about the brain I think because it's it's in a way the the social brain the human brain Gone Wild. It's it's taking all the skills is that we have to navigate social situations and using them in make believe social situations and and starting in a in asset from nothing and just looking at your art your partner and and going into a stories is below women's can do that. Yes we wish you great lucked Sanguinetti One agnosio match Oh Sanguinetti neuroscientists at the Humble University of Berlin. Thanks for joining us. We have a link to his paper and I'll tell you the video of the rats playing playing hide and seek will make your day science Friday dot com slash animal games. We're gonNA take a break. We'll be right back after this break. Science Friday is supported boarded by Marriott. Hotels researchers have proven that travel challenges the mind into thinking in new and more complex ways. It's amazing what disrupting your routine with a simple simple change of scenery can do for your creative process so to push the boundaries of inspiration Marriott hotels are designed to reveal the true potential of the human mind and let your mind travel at married hotels dot com a member of mariot bon voyage science Friday I am I replied Oh. How well do you recall your high school geometry? I loved high school geometry. Mr Cavallero was a great great math teacher. You know given isosceles triangle. ABC were assigned a be equal decide be than angle as also equal Anglesey of course you remember that thought something your math teacher invented it's proof written down in three hundred. BC by the Greek mathematician Euclid of Alexandria you know that he's also the founder of geometry yet euclid clues pie in The sky vision of an ordered methodical universe ruled by geometric equations. It struggled to catch on for centuries until renaissance painters and French monarchs found a way to connect the ancient science of geometry to the real world and the story of how Jammeh Tree went from a philosophical concept to a system for designing cities to a staple of high school mathematics is carefully laid out unlike a geometrical proof in the new book proof how the world became geometrical written by my next guest scientists story and Amir Alexander Welcome to science Friday. Thank you so much for having me on this list there for many years straight to be on you know I never really realized the great great history of geometry. I knew the math I loved the math and you say in your book that geometry was only discovered once in the course of human history. What does that mean breath well that means that they were actually? They're very they're different. great mathematical traditions in the ancient world there are traditions in Babylon. They developed forms of Algebra in in Egypt. They used math for measurement but there were only one the only in one place that anyone have the idea that mathematics was not just a tool title for counting measuring or you know looking at the astronomical observations but actually simply a way of finding absolute truth and mathematics can lead us to something that is absolutely irrevocably irrefutably true and that happened in the Greek world in one of the Greek cities dotted added the shores of the Mediterranean in the fifth century in the fifth century. BC and we don't know we don't know when exactly when exactly it happened a- and what exactly dot I proof was but we do know that it was the very first time it was the only time that that was discovered and that is I argue in my book it really changed the world and the profound way and you say that Euclid was the one who actually I'm going to quote you. Euclid is likely the most influential mathematician Atma Titian who ever lived. I mean there's been a lot of mathematicians Vada that is true but I think I think there's a good argument to be made that there was no one more influential fluential venue klay because what you did was really remarkable. He took those already existing proof that were sort of a disjointed array of different different theorems about lines and angles and circles and so on things that we know from John Geometry today and he turned them into not just a ah not just a a single set of of a different truth he turned them into a whole world a geometrical pure abstract geometrical world world in which you start out with a set of postulates and then you deduce steph biological step you deduce absolute necessary truths that are absolutely Lee incontestable and not only that but they're all dependent on each other and I say first level proofs are the basis for a higher level proofs been to Mesa higher higher level proofs and all of these truths that are incontestable are interrelated. It was a it was sort of as a plano was a great admirer. It played a lived before before you click but he saw he saw what what the project was and he saw it as an absolute beautiful world of absolute interconnected connected interconnected truth that there was nothing like it. That's where truth was. The world around us as as the Greeks thought was chaotic. Doc was changing was transitory was unreliable but geometry that gives you a world of absolute incontestable truths by but you also so say that the Greek geometry there's we're not looking for any practical applications of geometry but for truth for the sake of truth and then along comes euclid changes the whole thing well you did not did not change that he was also he was also he created a world an entire world of truths of intricate of interconnected the truth something that is the closest thing to you know Plato always thought that the real old if there is a world of the forms in which all the perfect the perfect truth all reside reside that is better and more pure and more beautiful than our father are very corrupt and transitory world euclid claimed the closest of the closest to actually creating that world making it making it real an interconnected interconnected world of absolute of Absolute Inter of absolute truth. There's all interconnected. Everything has its place. Everything has its perfect relationship shoe to other truth. Everything is perfectly known and everything is also hierarchical because it starts from those general neural statement postulates and then it goes step by step by step by step to to a to higher and higher levels but but you also say that while they were all interested philosophically philosophically in these truths it was it was the artists that brought math back to back down to earth right exactly right exactly right. Yes what happened. Was that you that that I thought that the Greeks bill they were very impressed with with you've conduct you because accomplishment but they didn't believe it described the real world mar world. Is this messy too messy changing transitory. It's nothing like that perfect world that world of geometry and that was also the case in the Middle Ages when the church thought that that the world is corrupt it is fallen right and it can't be described by those perfect truth and what happened and that happened in a particular place at a particular time. I'm in Florence around in the first half of fifteenth century. The fourteen hundreds a group of men that we know that we know well they took those concepts of geometry and showed that geometry is not just up in the sky. It's not just up there. In the abstraction. Geometry pervades our world at the world's space with the space that we live in itself is geometrical and they invented the science the science of perspective so that was so that was really that was really that that that is really a turning point. Tell us that saying I want to get into that. Tell us how that was discovered. You you describe a really fascinating dating scene using a mirror and a hole punch. You describe it how this whole fascinating idea came about. Yes that was a yes the experiment the famous experiment that the demonstrated the demonstrated the principles of Linear Perspective Atlas Accomplished by the Florentine Filippo Brunelleschi who is also famous for building that beautiful giant dome over the Duomo in Florence but years before he he built a he built the Dome he conducted experiments in perspective and he he took he stood he stood before in front and the front gate of the Duomo the Cathedral of Florence looking at at that October final structure that famous baptistery of Saint John in Florence just across the square about maybe a hundred maybe one hundred feet apart and in his hand he has he created painting the painting and the painting was not one of what you'd expect like a Madonna and child or the traditional thing the the the the the painting was in fact a picture of what he was seeing in his real in his in his in his actual actual in his actual life that is he was a picture of the Baptist Church of Saint John and he looked through a hole in the through a hole in in the in the back of the painting and in front of the painting from the direction of the Baptist he held a mirror and because he drew the he because he drew the painting according to the geometrical principles of perspective what he could see what he could see in the painting in the mirror was there's also a three dimensional picture of the of the of the Baptist story and he could remove the Hickey removed the mirror and looked the baptist and his hope what he was trying to accomplish was it would look exactly the same why exactly the same because on a flat surface he had managed to recreate the to create an image of the an image a three dimensional image of the Baptist three so it was really it was really a turning point not because is this was just a nice trick for a nice trick for painting for painters which also was a practical a practical thing but because he showed that you can do that you can can actually recreate the the geometry of space itself that space itself is structured by geometrical principles and at every point in space these can be defined can be defined geometrically and that was really the first time that was that was done geometry brought down from the sky and now suddenly people started looking. It's all all around us. It's it's in the geometry of space where else is geometry. He sort of did the first virtual reality experiment. I guess so yeah but I wanNA move onto the next point that you make what you say is very important because geometry then became a symbol of power right it did it did indeed because think about it. I mean like what what did you do legally created a world that was perfect. It was all every every single thing thing in that world had its precise place it was exactly true it has exact proper relationship to other things and it was perfectly hierarchical right and and if our world is in fact like that well that tells us something about space tell us something about science all true but it also it also tells us some things things about ourselves and what kind of world and what kind of order human beings should be should be living in and people those who I dodd though I realized the enormous political power of geometry were were the kings of France and they adopted. They tried to create what we what you could really call Euclid Kingdom an orderly at ca monarchy that is perfectly ordered in which everything is has. It's exact proper place it is true it is irrevocable and it is hierarchical and it is undeniable. I mean who could argue against who could tried to overthrow a king that rules not because just because he has a big army he rules because he is an expression of the eternal laws of geometry the deepest order reviewed reverse so you create Verti- which is the symbol of that exactly why it was a long process it started quite humbly by a kick French king called all Charley a two who went to pay who went with the head of a great army he went to Italy and brought back a few gardeners Joe metrical gardeners from Italy and over two hundred the years the French kings identified the monarchy closer and closer with geometrical order and especially especially with their geometrical gardens hardens and no garden no garden was as spectacular as powerful as the as the Gar as geometrical gardens of her cy by very interesting I am I replied Oh this is science Friday from WNYC studios talking about geometry with the Amir Alexander author of proof how the world became geometrical and of course keeping with this theme of power. If you weren't going to build a garden you could build a whole city right right that was geometrically sound indeed indeed so when you go to Versailles which which is a great guard but also a capital of a great set of a great nation Shin- France you learned by your walk those geometrical path of straight lines odd leading uphill to the royal palace and you learn that the rule of the King France is based on those geometric principle because you see them all around you it is it it tells you tells you that that the deep order of the world points at the king's palace but they're also but like you said it's not just garden cities as well and there are many there quite a few examples of of cities is that were designed according to geometrical principles but not as more I think more famous perhaps even more beautiful and more astounding that our very own capital of Washington D. D. C. which was designed by a Frenchman a Frenchman who grew up in the gardens of of Louis the fifteenth and Louis the sixteen and Universite decide well l'enfant yet Lynn Vaughan Yeah Yeah Pio Charlene Fun and he was and he brought the the principles the geometrical principles of of Versailles to America but the FAA of course America is not a monarchy. 'em In was everything but of course it was it was created as a rebuke to a to all to all monarchy but he in Washington. DC He managed to use the geometrical principles he had learned to Versailles and present them mm-hmm and a geometrical or at a geometrical order as a geometrical a Republican geometrical order and that really what Washington DC is. It isn't a way the constitution the while the streets of the city are the joy of the constitution set geometrically. you see I mean if you look for example if you stand on on the mall looking up at the houses of Congress on Capitol Hill that is why that is recite palace on the hill all roads all roads lead to it those straight geometrical roads pointing out pointing at the palace telling you that the attorney this is this is the fixed eternal unchanging teaching order looking up at looking at the palace in this case the palace of the people but the but but in Washington but in Washington. DC UNLIKE INVERSE I that is not the end of the story because there's also other centers of power so you have what Linfen called the president's palace and we know as the White House he he wanted it to our grander than it actually actually is he wanted something on the same scale as the as the house of Congress but again a ah a palace a great house on the hill with a guard with a garden at a right angle to the mall leading leading up to it and again. If you look at it alone it also also reflect verse but in Washington. DC those are two polls of power. Those are two interconnectivity the the intersect at right angles wasn't known Washington Monument and they are connected by Pennsylvania Avenue in a balance in this in this intricate in this intricate balance of rivalry and and and cooperation to centers of power instead of one which would be at Versailles and the king. We have a balance of power this is this is just just fascinating Amir. I mean is reading the book about geometry and then seeing how it is applied to gardens and cities who who would have thunk this is how you know uh-huh Jamaji branch out. I I WANNA thank you for taking time to be with us. As a fascinating book it's called proof how the world became geometrical Amir Alexander author of the new book he teaches the history of science at Ucla Good Luck with the book. It's a great read. Thank you for taking time to be with us today. Well thank you so much riveting and we want to hear your voice on science. It's Friday. We have a new APP to help you do that. It's called science Friday vox pop and it lets you easily recording. Share your voice comments with us and this week we are asking you Whose responsibility is it to ensure clothing is sustainable? The clothing brands the textile manufacturers or the consumer download the science Friday vox pop APP and yes you tell us in your own voice because we might play it on the radio. You might share your answer next week. The question this week is whose responsibility is it to ensure clothing is sustainable. The clothing brands the textile manufacturers or the consumer science Friday vox ax pop up. It's about all the time we have today. If you missed any part of the program you can hear it again. Subscribe to our podcast you smart speakers to play science Friday so you know Oh. Every day of the week is now science. Friday have a great new. You'll see ooh. There's a moon is a full Moon Harvest Moon Full Moon Harvest Moon on Friday the the thirteenth digest that for a while we'll talk. We'll talk about it. Maybe next week have a great weekend. Am I

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Caucus results from Iowa are delayed: Perception, presuppositions, and the word of God

The Daily Article

06:22 min | 1 year ago

Caucus results from Iowa are delayed: Perception, presuppositions, and the word of God

"This is the daily Article podcast published by the Denison Forum or culture changing Christians to receive the daily article directly to your Korea. Mail inbox day morning. Visit the daily Article Dot Com. Now here's Today's news discerned differently Iowa uh held its first in the nation caucuses last night president trump one on the republican side as expected. However we still don't know the winner on the Democratic Party decide the Iowa Democratic Party said the results were delayed due to inconsistencies in the reporting of three sets of results? They stressed that there was is not a hack or intrusion but announced around two a M that the results would be provided later today. Officials are now hand counting the results. There are two very different ways to see this unusual delay. One is that Democrats in Iowa are working to provide results in his trustworthy manner as possible. After the razor closed two thousand sixteen race in Iowa Between Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders Mr Sanders allies pushed the Democratic National Committee to require earlier caucus states to track and report the raw numbers of support for each candidate in Iowa. The new reporting standards slowed the gathering of data to a crawl technical issues contributed to the delays. The other is to view. The Democratic Party's reporting as indicative of its suitability to lead GOP congressman and Mark Meadows of North Carolina. tweeted folks. This is the party that wants to run your healthcare control your employment decide. What kind of car you drive in more? These conflicting perspectives reflect the larger conflicts in our culture for example Bernie. Sanders was favored by oddsmakers to win. The Iowa caucuses. His campaign is fueled principally by his appeal to millennials his focus on wealth inequality universal healthcare here student loan debt and climate change resonate with many of them the fact that he is quite substantially not religious in the words of his brother is is not a detriment to a generation noted for its lack of religious commitment. Consider that college graduates are less likely than non-graduates to agree that religion is is very important they are also less likely to say they believe in God with absolute certainty or that they pray daily in fact eleven percent identify. NFL as atheist or agnostic compared with four percent of those with high school education or less less. These facts suggest that religion is irrational. Note that Christians who graduated from college are more likely to attend weekly worship services than those with less education too many of Mr Sanders millennial supporters reporters his lack of religious commitment mirrors their own. They view his irreligious as a positive rather than negative Consider another fact. Democratic professors outnumber Republicans nine to one at America's highest ranking colleges and universities. The ratio varies by discipline while economic professors who are Democratic Outnumber Republicans three to one professors of anthropology who are Democrats. Rats Outnumber Republicans. Forty two one. This pattern is less surprising when we look behind it to note that college administrators who hire the professors identify if I as liberal rather than conservative by a ratio of twelve to one. Here's my point. Your view of the delayed Iowa. Are you a Democratic Party reporting mirrors your larger view of the two parties likewise those who support Bernie Sanders irreligious acidy or liberal politics on campus. Do so because they are convinced they are right. Seen through the prism of their world view. We can better understand their commitments. Evangelical see the world through a presupposition prism as well. If I were a college administrator I would be likely to prefer faculty who embrace my biblical Worldview. I've you you political candidates and issues through the same Lens. My point is not that we should have no presuppositions. This is impossible. Actually mathematicians work with unproven propositions such as Euclid 's first axiom that things which are equal to the same thing are also equal to one another so do scientists in logisticians to conclusions. Follow one we should relate to those who oppose Biblical truth with Grace Race motivated by gratitude. For God's grace the person who does not know Christ does not accept the things of the spirit of God for they are folly to him and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned lest we take pride in our spiritual knowledge. Remember that we were once where they are and that our salvation is not your own doing. It is the gift of God not of works so that no one may boast too. We should view the entire your world through the presupposition of Biblical Truth and authority in Mark. Two Jesus saw Levi the son of Elvis sitting at the tax booth and he said to him follow me he did not say listen to me or even believe in me but follow me to follow. Someone requires the holistic commitment of our lives. A- call God's word regularly extends to us. Cs Lewis we are in fact very like honest But reluctant taxpayers. We approve of an income tax in principle we make our returns truthfully but we dread a rise in the tax. We are very careful to pay no more than is necessary and we hope we very ardently hope that after we have paid it there will still be enough left to live on is serving. Jesus today attacks you or a privilege you embrace if you like what you heard please. He's leave a rating and review for the PODCAST. Thank you for listening to the daily Article podcast today.

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35: Please Be Discrete

Breaking Math Podcast

36:34 min | 2 years ago

35: Please Be Discrete

"Centuries ago there began something of curiosity between mathematicians that didn't really amount to much, but some interesting thoughts and some cool mathematical theorems this former Matt had to do with strictly injure quantities. Theorems about whole numbers things started to change in the nineteenth century with some breakthroughs and decrypt intelligence through the examining the frequency of letters in the fervor that led to the increase of security of existing avenues of communication and to speed up. The newfound media telegraphy came a field of mathematics called discreet, meth is now at essential part of our world today with technology such as online banking being essentially impossible without it. So what have we learn from discrete math? What are some essential methods used within it? And how was it applied today? All is more on this episode of breaking math episode thirty five please be discreet. I'm Jonathan nine Gabriel. And this is how do we start the show? I miss. I don't know three ask our listeners listeners if you want us to start the show different. All right of we're doing discreet mouth today, which is topic is one of my favorite topics because I'm a programmer have to use it all the time would any thoughts on discrete math. Yes. Definitely actually as we were talking about doing this topic. The first thought that came to mind is why do discrete math. You mentioned something during the introduction that I think is interesting you'd said that this the field of discrete math came out more or less from some curiosities. I'm very curious about more on that. Even if there wasn't a practical purpose at the time. What what can you tell us from your research about where this field I started? And what were the influences will it goes all the way back to you? Click and dial in the defending equations of defense. He's I think I'm less familiar who has diabetes. Let me look him up. So event is he was called. Apparently, according to Wikipedia, the father of algebra, so defend DC. He had these equations that were polynot meal equation. So you have like expert, plus y squared equals, z squared. But if you have expert, Greg squared it, usually describes right triangle, right and that right? Triangle can be any configuration. So if you have like ten eleven you could figure out the other edge and so forth. Awesome. But what's interesting about defending decisions that restricts it to just pathetic triples, which is like three four five triangles where you have exact injury solutions which are much harder to solve interesting. The reason why I brought that up is I'm always curious about about with relationship between mathematics and nature and other sciences. We've said this before that there will be a curious discovery that will have no practical application. Then years down the road. It will have an application so many things fit in that category. And obviously this whole episode is about discrete math. But that that's something that that that fascinates me. So it's almost like curiosity for its own sake. And that that only becomes apparent for people. Like, I'm sorry. I'm gonna slaughter slaughter the pronunciation say it again, I think found as or something. Okay. So with respect to discrete math. Obviously, you know, we credit him with being the founder of discrete math. But you know, I think the definition is in the term it's or is in the name itself. Discrete math. It's math focuses on the countable. So so that kind of excludes some fields, obviously calculus mathematics of the Infinity's. I think it's less concerned perhaps with geometry as a whole would not really discreet mouth and geometry heavily huge amount to do with one another in fact, one of the big discoveries of the last thirty years was Andrew. Wiles is discovery of Fermat's last approve of mess LeicesteR, which we'll talk about when we talk about more about defending to quesions later in the episode now, obviously, it's huge nowadays because of computing and digital technologies all of that is nothing, but what can be modeled through discrete energies, you know, ones and zeros all of that is discrete math. So even even the real numbers the way that the re representatives computer uses a finite number of bit. So just an approximation to the real numbers. Basically our whole world right now is digital wind. So it's cool that we did some work on this before the digital revolution. So I'm trying to think of other applications before the digital revolution before computers before electric computers that strictly involved discrete math like if you go to ancient China, I imagined some of their board games perhaps. Well, they did a lot of research in discrete math. In fact, there's this theorem called the Chinese remainder theorem that we're going to be talking about. It was discovered by the Chinese mathematician soon Z in some book called soon Z's swinging. I don't know how to pronounce it again again for for those who have a better pronunciation if you can correct us. We would be we would be very gracious. So why don't we talk about some of the things that we'll be talking about on this particular episode? Sure, we'll be talking about the Clinton algorithm for finding the least common denominator of two numbers, which is one of the first algorithms ever to be invented. Then we're gonna talk a little bit about defending equations why they're hard to solve in the differences between working with images and real quantities. There were beginning to be talking about modulus, and the pigeonhole principle just to kind of show you some of the tools that discreet mathematicians us. Finally, we're going to end with the exponential is and how it relates to our say cryptography good. Yeah. Yeah. And I've heard of some of those my experience as a math teacher, we'd go into modulus. Also in my limited experiences as a programmer programmers will be much more familiar with the term modulus, but for non programmers. We look forward to giving a great explanation of what it is. Also, the applications of a modulus and math involving spoiler alert just means remainder. Indeed. Indeed. All right. So you Clinton them is really cool. What do you know about this? Okay. So let's do a quick Euclid. We've talked about him many many times that he wrote the elements that he is the father father grandfather, he's basically considered the version who brought mathematical proofs and geometry he popularized. He was the first person to to create the book elements that we are aware of so. Yeah, he's he definitely graded it. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. I am. I'm curious to inspired him to. That's always a continuing argument. But he is the founder of two D geometry, as we know it and also some theorems about a discrete math, one of the cool ones that we just do real quick is the proof that there's an infinite amount of primes. And this is when Euclid spruce fascinating, I'm less familiar with. No, I've read about it. But I'm less familiar with it. So basically, let's say you have all the primes. Like two three five. Let's pretend you had a finite number of primes. Right. If you had a finite number of primes, you could multiply them altogether. Right. Yes. And if you did that, and then added one it'd be divisible by none of the numbers. Oh, that's fascinating. So the new prime I love that. I love that that so that that's a very quick proof that you can just explain I've seen a Facebook group called mathematical proofs with pictures, and hopefully we did a good job of mathematical proofs with just, you know, Saudi out with this audio that that that's fantastic. So yeah, I'll say it again. So you've got a group of primes assume that you have all the primes. And then you said, you multiply all of them together, and then added one, and then that that's a new a new prime or that'd be a new prime because none of the prime so far would divisible by it as indistinguishable proof of an internet primes because think about two we could not divisible by two any more. Because now, it's it's not visible. Three anymore because it's three times something plus one. So they're cetera. Well, now, I assume that that's related to some of the other ideas like on our outlined here. We've got is his algorithm for finding the least common denominator of two numbers. Yeah. No one's really cool because it's still used in a RSA cryptography today. Wow. So then that term for those who may not have had a great experience with growing up with math LCD. That's the last time. You probably heard that was in middle school math perhaps over you know, pre-algebra, and it's not always fun. It might be a routine tasks, but it has a lot of applications as you said Jonathan it's for what was at the what kind of cryptography RSA cryptography is one of the steps one of the many steps. But what's cool about in this? I think is kind of unfair that they don't teach you this algorithm in elementary school because it's really easy. All you do is you take your. So let's say you wanna find the least common denominator of let's say twenty five and ten come see divide. Twenty five by ten and what do you get two point five? Yeah. So to remainder five right? Yes. So then what you do is a throw away the twenty-five. You put the ten in the box and you put the five on the outside. So you divide ten by five okay to remainder zero right? Yes. So therefore five is the least common denominator because it was the last thing we divided by. Oh, cool. So so be basically it's identifying something as a remainder, and then using that as your LCD, I it's like a so so it's like you take the remainder, and you keep putting that keep dividing by the remainder. Okay. And you keep dividing what you were dividing by by with the render. That's just in terms of mental Matt. So during our first season, we talked a lot about all the episodes that we could do in our planning. We even talked about the idea of doing a mental math episode. We never did. It's a fantastic idea. You know, we could actually have people send us emails or letters intense or even call us have a phone number. Now, we don't. We are too poor to have a phone number. Right. Oh, yeah. No. Let's getting we folks contact us. Anyway, that they can, you know, breaking math podcasts at gmaiLcom, and send us your mental math ideas things that you may have heard about through the grapevine or you know, other great mental math techniques. I think that is one way to really garner and appreciation for mathematics and something. I wish we all had more of. Oh, yeah. You could find to on Twitter at breaking math pod. Yeah. Yeah. Send us your mental math will do a whole episode on it, and you will get credit. You'll get a shoutout. But yeah. So that's that's Euclid contributions to discrete math. Well, those are all of them. I don't think they were. But the the let's continue. So our next section is on dia phan-tien equations. Oh, yeah. And those are like we talked about him in the introduction a little bit things like finding a expert. Plus y squared equals z squared, you know, like three or four or five triangles. I think one of the characteristics of them is that they are harder to find their hard equation to solve involving integer quantities. Description of them. Yeah. Like, and one of the famous ones is Fermat's last theorem ferments last theorem, he came up with it in sixteen thirty seven, and he basically said that if you have X to the end so expert by bite self end times plus whiter the in equals Z to the N. It's impossible to solve for N greater than your equal to three. That's right. And is less Thurnham. Apparently, he proved it in according to him he proved it in the margins or rather he said he did the proof, but it couldn't fit in the margins of a book because that right? Yeah. We have the quote here in Len and an English Kubo mouth. Tim and duos Kubilius out Quadra Quadra out to them. Do a Squadra Quadra tos it's Gennady liter Newland in infinite to withdraw Quadra to put the stop to induce them though. Meet niece pus as DVD quiz today. They will start deal in them. Sinai. The text. Hunk megani? Lease exit guidos known cut Pettit. It is impossible to separate a cube into two cubes or a fourth power into two fourth powers or in general any power higher than the second into two like powers. I've discovered a truly marvelous proof of this which this margin is too narrow to contain. That is is that what we call nowadays as trolling. I don't think he's trolling. I think he was just kind of full of himself a lot of math petitions are now now. Okay. So are you saying it's it's possible that he didn't actually write the proofs because I mean approve that beautiful. You would think you would have kept track of it. Definitely. He was probably like he thought he did it. And then he won when you went to I've done this before when I think I saw the homework problem. And then I'm like go to write it down was like this not a solution at all. This is just have you ever thought about starting your own podcast? You know, when we were trying to get this podcast off the ground. We had so many questions. How do we even record? An episode where do we go to find background music? How do we post the audio? How do we get our show onto apple podcasts Spotify and all the other places for people to listen, the answer to every one of these questions is really simple anchor anchor is a one stop shop for recording hosting in districting your podcast and best of all it's one hundred percent free and one hundred percent ridiculously easy to use. I was introduced to anchor about a month ago from my brother, Adam you, you've heard on the show immediately. I was really impressed with the fact that you can just download an app on your phone and everything you need to record the episode edited and add in Santa, thanks. It's all right there. It couldn't be any easier. So if you've always wanted to start a podcast go to anchor dot FM slash start today. And join me and the diverse community of podcasters already using inker that's anchor dot FM slash start. I can't wait to hear what you all will come up with. This episode is all about home. That's Maddox has been used to study the whole numbers and their properties in the past few centuries. One of the topics we discuss, and how will we use public cryptography that end our partner billion dot org has the full course, all about number theory, which encompasses discrete math. And some of the some of the basic techniques used their Aleppo, the course takes you from factories of the primes to modular arithmetic basis for representing numbers and even to penalizing sections on cryptography and another simply entitled decimal magic number theories experiencing something of a renaissance right now in this may be your way of joining the revolution to support your education. The math and physics good. A brilliant dot org slash breaking math and sign up for free. The I two hundred breaking meth listeners can get twenty percents off. And he'll subscription was what we've been using a now back to the abyss owed. So so one point we talked about doing a show on on Facebook called talking heads where we do like little comics of the mathematicians, and we actually talked about being a Fermat talking head where he'd do at Twitter where I basically says I've discovered a marvelous proof, but the proof will not fit in this tweet or something like that. Funny and his proof is is like approved was sustained for three hundred and fifty seven years until nineteen ninety four nineteen Ninety-one as I said earlier it was sold by Andrew wiles using using elliptic curves. Which I only begun to understand a while. What can you tell us about elliptic curve so far for those of us who have not done any research into them, basically their questions of the form? I think they're like. Is like execute plus X Y squared Z's. I think they're like cubic or less curves usually set up like polynot meals. I'm kind of I'm put on the spot. Like barely started. Looking these up interesting? Yeah, I'd be really curious to dive more dive more into this. And hopefully, get some more of a grasp of how did it how how big was the proof that finally how long was Wilde's proof is like two hundred pages awhile. And did he do it all by hand, the help of a computer? I think he did. I think it's a by hand proof. I mean, doing her pages is definitely a very long proof. And there's a one point where he made a mistake, and he had to redo a chapter in reprove it a different way. So that's it's always interesting. The mathematics can be done like that. Wow. Yeah. That's that. That's Matic where you're so close to a solution. And then, you know, have to redo all of it. It's it's you know. Well, you only had to redo injector those only link that was we now one other question then after after he did this and again. I realize as as simple as me looking it up. But how soon after he submitted the proof was it accepted. I'm not sure I mean, I think the deity four was kinda like the date of acceptance. I think everything is going to like that. But I don't really know. Well, I don't know publication standard that that makes me think that there's certainly a lot of murky things we have something where you you may have approved. But but you don't know yet. And you know, he think that mathematics could potentially be infinitely complex Jit. Just from that angle. There's things that we will never know just because it's in the span of a human lifetime. You'll never get that far. Oh, yeah. For sure that's actually, you know, what there's actually a really good blog. We we've talked about before it's the star codex. What it was called in? Okay. I will find out real quick. Star slate codex. There's a blog on the very popular star sleep codex that that is all about the absolute limits of human knowledge, and it's a fantastic blog. They essentially talk about people who spend their entire life researching. And then you've got other people who spend their entire life teaching people to research. So that they can hopefully, you know, do it better. And there's only so many improvements that you can make there's there's this ACM Todd limit. It seems to human knowledge to really great read. If you haven't had a chance, I'd just go. Check out star slate are slate star codex. So one of the tools that you use a lot in discrete math is modulus which is just remainder of so seven modules three would be what? Oh, okay. So so one right because. Yeah. In the way that you could say that is seven is a quivalent to one modulate three. And I don't know why that's the notation. But that's what everybody settled on it, really annoys me. I think it should just it should just be like in a computer programming. These usually as a percent sign and to me that makes more sense to keep it is operator, but that's just my own personal politics. So that's what modules doesn't end the this became thing as you said earlier with ancient Greek method physicians. Ancient Chinese do. Really? Yeah. There's this thing that you actually do with modulars called the Chinese remainder theorem. Okay. And so let's say I give you a certain number of coins, and you and you have a jar that each holds a certain number like, let's say each jar holds three coins. And you put these coins into these jars and you have to points leftover. No, you do another one. But with the coin where the jars hold five coins, and you have three leftover, and if you do it with seven then you have to leftover and with the Chinese remainder theorem, it is possible to reconstruct the original number, which is twenty three different coins. Okay. Interesting. Wow. This fascinating. So I'm actually very curious. An area is probably more history than it is math. But you, sir. You start. You certainly inspired me to suddenly research parallel developments in ancient China and other parts of the world. I think China is kind of unparalleled in number theory, unparalleled. Yeah. The Chinese and the ancient Indian mathematicians were really good at that passenger seating fessing. So what what's older the mathematics that you're quoting with mathematics of Euclid? I think Euclid was little earlier. And then obviously, especially one culture influencing the other a lot of the things that were in China, India and Greece were fairly independent that right? I'm not sure I think there's a lot of debate about how much cross pollination there was through trade. Yeah. Yeah. I also know that there's a lot of things that are -scribed to our communities that were actually could be described possibly as ancient Egyptian again, I'm not an expert in this area. So I could be completely wrong on this one. But it is an interesting topic to talk about the actual origins of things or it could be like where Rome conquered ancient Greece. And just took their ideas and rename them. So. Oh, yeah. And there's also, yeah, there's a lot of factors, but what's cool about the Chinese remainder? Theorem is that is used to this day in our essay cryptography, it's used as solve a problem, which we'll be talking about in the second where let's say actually, we could just do this. Now, let's say I wanted you to multiply nine by itself. One hundred times so nine to one hundred power this and tell me the last digit of that real quick. Oh, wow. Okay. Got no idea. I mean, I have to Lou nine funky number. It's one of my favorite numbers. Well, here's the thing to notice. Yes. Nine to one hundred nine to the one hundred is nine two squared the fiftieth, right? Yes. Nine squared is eighty one. Okay. The last digit of Eighty-one is the last digit of any number is that number modular ten you divide by ten and take the remainder awhile. So in the cooling about modular is that like twelve times thirteen twelve times thirteen is going to be six. Module. Oh, ten because twelve is two in thirteen is three. So you can multiply with Mudge low. That's you can do a lot of arithmetic with module, you could add and subtract. He's have to keep track of it on both sides. So essentially what you're saying is comes down to a mathematical dozy DOE, basically, it's a it's a barnyard dance. But with numbers, and you end up with like, you know, grab your partner swing around and you end up with like, you know, the last number. Yeah. Definitely in in. That's actually pretty good analogy because. Because nine squared is eighty Eighty-one Celeste digit is one and what's one multiply by itself? Fifty times. One is the last digit of nine to the one hundred one a while. Okay. Odd man out interesting. Okay. Very cool. Very cool. And you could do the same thing with like with a lot of numbers. And that's actually why the and you could I want you to solve this at home. I if you have a number, and you add up the digits, and you keep adding up the digits until you have one digit left if the digit is divisible by three than the original number was two, and you can figure that out using modular. Oh fascinating. Wow. I'll start. We are. Now, a are breaking my listeners math homework. Boy was required to listen. Yes. You can't listen to breaking math unless you do the math, homework and ginger episodes. We're going to have to submit it by Email. We're gonna have to grade. It's if you get an a you get to listen to the whole episode sorry guys if you get to be listening to forty five minutes if you got to see you get half an hour. Oh, gosh. We're gonna lose. Listen, so fast. You know, because I think a business practice. The worst thing. The worst thing to do. What they have to do. So your customers. Oh boy. That's not a great business practice here. So how you gonna keep that in at that out? No. Oh, man. Okay. Yeah. Now now, the whole idea that I said earlier is I try to imagine this whole modulus dose. He doth thing is brings me back to our episode on math factory. We're we're talking about our favorite algorithms and general essentially, that's what it is. Like you've got a problem to solve. And you've got all these different algorithms. It's basically are kind of a song and a dance where you end up with something, you know, and that's the brilliance of mathematics, and that's the brilliance of algorithm. So and sometimes I feel like it does have the same feeling as dancing, at least certain types of dancing, like definitely the does he know type dense because it's about steps. Yeah. You have corn ties steps in discrete math versus like calculate like impetus calculus is a different story. Yeah. You've got like, you know, you talk about like things that are understandable with respect to information theory. Well, there's a pattern in what you just described that does he do with. Mathematical systems. That's you know, it's very easy to describe how it works. And it always produces an end results. You know? So it's exactly like a dance of it's. Well, that's that's cool. That's cool. Yeah. And the cool thing about like module. Oh is the way that I visualize it in my head is a ring of of beads, so one hundred module. Oh, seven is. Just you just you have a ring with seven beads on it. And he just go around it until you pass one hundred beads, pervert example of discrete math using beads. You know, counting in fact that all brings you back to math. How began with calendars and counting and all that stuff. Yeah. It's very it's very like earthy meth in my you can't get away from math, man. No matter what you do you could like try to run away and get away from it all, but like, you never ever will meth always finds you. And sometimes you find math or math lines. You like that's mystical mystical math. That'd be a good episode. Wouldn't it? Yeah. Would but we could do tesla. But when calling about the exponential module is is that it's used in Arza cryptography, and the way it's calculated is actually a we can't go into it because it's really complicated. Not really obligated. But we don't have time to really go into it. But it's used in the Chinese Chinese remainder theorem, but you use exponential modulus the same way. And so let's say I have something that encrypted with my public key. That's to say if I have a public key just a quick rundown of that I use it to anybody can use it to encrypt messages, but only I can use my private key to decrypt them. Right. Yes. So usually have a cipher text into into make cipher text in our essay, you take the message. You take it to the exponent of the public key would usually a few hundred bits. And then you divide that in the take that modular end and is just a pre. Readable number. So there's there's lot terminology here. I understand that our audience our listeners right now who have computer science math backgrounds, they're probably following right along. But for those who are listening in the background who may not have any any background whatsoever. Let's let's how would we say just what you said using just just pure analogies. I think I think one when when possible way way of doing it, you mentioned cypher cypher is a way of decoding something. Yeah. And also, okay. So when you when you multiply something by itself module, and essentially what you're doing is. You're just kind of scrambling the number over and over again. Okay. It's kind of a way of scrambling the number and economically create some really cool diagrams with information. You know, an order of something you scramble it like gosh, I'm trying to think of some examples involving baskets or or like a lottery spinner or something. You know what? I mean. Like, yeah. It's kind of like that. But but we're it's predictable every single time. Okay. And so any way you just scramble it by multiplying it by itself. Like, if you did if you follow the algorithms of the letter you'd have to keep doing this for like almost in like for literally more time than the universes existed on multiple by yourself over and over and over again because these are like these digits are like these are like hundreds of like binary digits long. These are gigantic numbers that we're dealing with. But we can. But there's a trick is multiplied by itself over and over again. And like the reason why this fastest two times. Two is four times. Two is what eight times two is sixteen times too is thirty two so in five steps to thirty two but to square it is for four squared is sixteen sixteen squared is. I two fifty six and two fifty six years of very big number and in five steps we've gone to away big number. And so that's that's why the squaring trick works square. Multiply by itself. Real quick question is something I should've asked you earlier, you said the name of this encryption is our I'm sorry. What does it say? Essay are essay. What does our SA stand for sends with three inventors algorithm? Run rivers, Evie Shamir and Leonardo Ataman. Okay. And when they come up with this way, nineteen seventy eight there's an equivalent system that was developed in nineteen seventy three by an English mathematician. But it wasn't or say, but that wasn't declassified until nineteen Ninety-seven interesting. Okay. And then well, wow. Okay. And yeah. So these required to like four kilobits of information to basically scramble everything up. And so so basically, so when you take your message raise it to the exponent of the public key and take it much lower end. You're just scrambling up that information, but what's cool is that these scrambling use the same algorithm, but you but exponent is even bigger as your private key interesting. Okay. Okay. Public he privacy. And I'm trying to think of what are some other analogies for the whole public private key thing like a mailbox or like? A good way to think of it is like let's say I want I want you to send me a something secure. So I give you a a give you a box that is pre locked that you put messages in. That's like encrypting it with my publicly. And then when the box gets back to me, I have my key in my pocket, and that's opening it up with my private got it got it. Okay. Okay. One of the lessons. I think we're going to talk about is the pigeonhole principle, and it's a really simple principle in. It's like if you have more pigeons, and you have pigeonholes, then there's at least one pigeonhole with more than pigeon. And that's that's how simple it is. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Sorry. I I was visualizing the from. Yeah. Because it's a remainder problem. You gotta you gotta stick to Jains at least at least two in at least one of the holes, and there's an extended pigeonhole principle, which says that if you have like three times as many pigeons pigeonholes than there's at least one pigeonhole with at least three pigeons. Oh, wow. That's interesting. Yeah. Some of those things I'd have to count it out to start to convince me of that. Yeah. Or at least four I mean, in the way these ways because like let's say you have like ten pigeons in three pigeonholes you put three pigeons in each hole. And then you have one leftover so we have to have one pigeonhole with at least four pigeons. Okay. Okay. Got it. And if you but in in it's still holds if you have. One pigeon pigeonhole one when pigeon pigeonhole and then eight pigeons and pigeon hole three because it's at least three in at least one interesting end. It's cool because you could use this to prove that there's at least two people in England with the exact same over their head in the way that you could do that is this. So there's about a million in this is a fact it's about there's about a million or no no more than like a million of hairs on head even like, Jeters, Lee, whatever. Okay. Which means that there's about a million pigeonholes people with one hair on their head to hairs on their head all the way to a millionaires on their head. Okay. And if there's more than a million people in England, which it's true. It means that there's at least two people with the same number of their head. Oh, got it. In fact, because let me see how many people are in. That's crazy. That's that's so simple. It's deceptive back dude deceptive mathematics, how about a whole podcast called that. And there's about sixty. Million people in England, which means that there's at least sixty seven people walking around with the same number of hairs on their head. It's extremely convincing fascinating. And they released to the birthday paradox to begin this shows the difference between probability and pigeonhole principle because if you have twenty three people in a room as we've covered thing on the podcast before there's at least a fifty percent chance that to be will have the same birthday. That's great. It's so so so in this case, if we talked about this in terms of the pigeonhole principle, you know, of course, there are if you're not counting leap here there or there's three hundred and sixty five point two five whatever. Days in a year. This is round is three sixty five. Okay. So so yeah. For the sake of this discussion, the mole just say three sixty five, but we're not. But we're not using the days of the year as pigeonholes, right? Yeah. We are. Okay. And which means that even though there's a fifty percent chance with twenty three for there to be one hundred percent chance at two people have the same birthday. You have to have at least three hundred sixty six people. Okay. Interesting. Okay. Wow. Wow. And then what was the logic of that one? Again. Like, how do you prove? So one hundred percent chance you have to have the exact amount of pigeonholes. Oh, you have to have at least as many, okay because there's only a certain amount of birthdays. So at someone you have to going to start repeating birthdays. So there if there's three hundred sixty six people in a room, there's one hundred percent chance that two of them have the same birthday. And if you want to a description of why that's not the case or rather why it's unintuitive that you only need. What was it twenty three twenty four hundred fifty percent? Yeah. We. For that. On a previous episode. I think it was mini sewed six believe, I think so. Yeah, you could go back and listen to that. That's a that's a great discussion very unintuitive other anymore applications of the pigeonhole principle 'cause I mean like we had some of them. But like I mean, there's like it's just used all the time in little proofs. I it's it's a tool, you know. It's a tool to be used all the time. And it's just useful. Because like like, let's say you have people shaking hands in together. You could prove that at least two people shook the same number of hens us using using the number of handshakes as pigeonholes. So it's like if you make more abstract pigeonholes, and you can prove cooler things, very cool. Discrete mathematics has shaped the way in which relate to the world to the process of not only digitization, but encryption through digitization as we continue onto the sister episode to this one which will be about mental in recreational mathematics. Liz remember that our world today is defined by sharp definitions in between numbers, I'm Jonathan and I'm Gabriel and this has been breaking math. If you wanna poster working to get that. If you go to our patriotic. And that is WWW dot patriots dot com slash breaking math. Not breaking math podcast. Just breaking math. And you find us on Twitter at breaking mouth pod. You could find us on a g mail at a breaking mouth podcast. And yeah, I think that's all. I have. Yeah. I've a few things. I honestly the posters are now shipping. Much much faster. We were with the revenues from our original not to get into details. But with the revenues from the first posters we were able to finally order a medium sized. Bulk order, so we've got a whole bunch of them. So this is right in time for for for Christmas. So so until we run out of this amount. Which is I think it's four times are original order. Okay. We're hoping that this law. I'm sure it'll last, but they they are there's they're shipping much much faster now. So from the day you order it. It's assuming that the day you order it is the day that I go down to the ups store and mail it in the United States arriving in probably three days three or four days. That's it. Yeah. And from that we mentioned earlier, please send us your favorite mental math. We love talking about it. That's great discussion that gets us excited. And if you want to send us your favorite, mental math or your favorite recreational math. We will make sure to include it. Well, I can't say that for sure a guaranteed. I can't like we'll we'll think about and think about it. Terrible. Gosh. Yeah. Please. Send us your stuff. Talk to us about your favorite, math games and your favorite mental math. It'll be a great discussion next time at no joked about it earlier in the episode, but we actually are going to move to a grading based subscription for me. Lord. Yeah. Oh, and lastly, if you just wanna follow me, I'm actually going to start making YouTube videos that reflect on podcasting in General Ivan listening a lot to. Almost everything from Gimblett studios. They they're an inspiration in in terms of how they created the company not everything they've done has been well received by the audience, but I've been obsessed by Gimblett, especially the podcast startup. I'm just plugging it because I am I'm going to start making YouTube. I'm sorry. Facebook videos that I release where I talk about my favorite podcasts as well. As what I wanna do with breaking math. So if you'd like to feel free to friend me on Facebook, just go to Gabriel hash and you'll see a few of those. That's also another way to interact with me. So. Yeah.

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33: Interview with Math with Bad Drawings (Ben Orlin)

Breaking Math Podcast

40:37 min | 2 years ago

33: Interview with Math with Bad Drawings (Ben Orlin)

"I'm Jonathan and I'm Gabriel today's special down the breaking podcast because we are collaborating with another educational creator. We'll be interviewing and author about a brand new book. Those just released on September eighteenth called mathematics with mad drawings. This book is by author named Ben Orlan who also writes a blog by the same name Bennett had his writings and several journals, including the Atlantic slate vox Los Angeles Times the Chicago Tribune, and now he's on the lectures, breaking math Ben, are you doing? I'm doing great. Thanks for having me. We are very glad to have you very, very exciting. I just got this book mathematics with bad drawings and I'm thrilled to safe to audience not only there are a lot of math, of course, but there are tons and tons of drawings, and we don't mean just math, you know, like like diagrams and such. There's there's stick figures and cartoons and comics. It is an absolute delight to read. Now Ben, would you consider what you draw. Diagrams or cartoon. What are they closer to cartoons diagrams? Yeah, it's a little bit of both. I mean, I think when I started the blog, I says about five years ago now I knew that to do math. It really helps to have visuals. You guys do some inventive stuff with with audio. But you know, when I'm teaching, I know that when I have a good visual for something that's when I can. I can sort of get through to students. And so I knew I wanted to drawings else knew that I can't draw those just not a skill that is in my in my skill set. And so I figured I should disavowed up from by con blog, massive, bad drawing. So they're gonna be drawings than please don't set expectations too high for them. So think we denser was there a little bit of both? I mean, they definitely have. I mean, the ones in the Booker, definitely there to help explain the ideas and to make it a little more lucid and easy to follow. And there's also a lot of jokes in them, and then they're meant to be silly and playful, of course to ask you with this book. Now, of course, it's pretty obvious to me or least I, or at least I think it has what age group and what target audience is this book for specifically. So I've been really happy with the feedback it's gone from from. Matt folks, folks, math teachers than people who are already bought into math. But really, I mean, the most for is for adults who feel a little bit alienated for math or feel like they may have, you know, a bad break up with math at the end of their educational trajectory and would like a chance to, you know, not to do a full range elation necessarily. That's hard to do in one book, but least have nice experience with the subject, get chance to to play around with mighty as I sought that. You did a very what I call good job of approaching statistics where you start off by talking about the psychology of statistics, how a one percent chance in reality is what most people call six percent chance yet? Nothing that's about right. Yeah, that I think the research from Dana comments book, I think fast in slows where I learned about it. There's this whole them, right? The whole realm of behavioral economics day real psychology kind of psychology. But so yes. So basically what happens is when people here ninety nine percents, they tend to think of that as they kinda round down. Down to like ninety five percent. Ninety percent. Maybe when people here at one percent, they kind of round up to five percent, six percent, which I think helps explain why why people react to sort of strangely as they do to tiny probabilities lottery tickets into into almost one probabilities. When you taught, what was the age range that you taught? Yes, her Tottenham for four years in California and I was teaching high school so it did allow ninth grade when I started in the mostly eleventh twelfth after that. And then I taught for three years in the UK where a middle school and high schools, just one big school can't sell your teaching six or twelve. Now, here's what I ask as I was reading this, you know what I read. I thought my middle schoolers would really, really enjoy. I know that you had mentioned that this is probably for adults who want to improve their relationship with mathematics, but would you also include I dunno down to say seventh graders, sixth grade, at least for parts of it? Yeah, I think having taught sixth and seventh meself the mathematics content would be accessible at that level. I think the fact is that most adults when they go through the world, the secret of math education is they go through in their rarely using much from their math education past six or seven th maybe eighth grade at the latest. So I think it gonna mathematical. I think it should be accessible to to the students in. I don't know as much about. Kind of the reading level of kids that age, so, but you know, good readers are able to to dig in pictures. So even if some of the jokes are over your head should still be. I thoroughly thoroughly enjoyed reading it. Just the humor throughout it. I would even say that anybody down to sixth grade or I don't wanna say fifth grade and you know overstep it, but there's humor in depth for adults, and there's also excessively for kids. Just I'm saying, you know, I know Twitter was telling me that they saw red bookstore father a kid. We book in hand of kids, maybe ten in the grownup. In there, you know, trading back and forth of little things. They're finding yet. I think, you know, hopefully accessible for win range, especially if the parents read the book to their children than it would be very, very enjoyable. I do notice that the way that you've written this book and again, using the probability chapters, in example, because I got very impressive was you don't go much above base base concepts. You don't really go. Oh, like if you imagine, math is a series of high rises and you know, you have to go to the first floor to get to the second floor to get to the third floor. And on the top lawyer, you have weird things like, I don't know fiber bundles and no Thor's theorem, but near the bottom. You have a bunch of interesting stuff and a lot of lively activity going on. And I know so you concentrate a lot on that and you get really deep into it like the can you tell us a little bit about? I really liked the probability chapter on DNA. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. No, yeah. Thanks for that. That that one to you, you definitely what you're saying is definitely true. That mathematics is very cumulated discipline. I mean, everything bills on what came before. I think this is part of why people often have this experience of kinda falling off a cliff at some point with mathematics. It's not so much that they reach a point. They can't handle. It's more that they reach a point where the last two or three steps they kinda missed some pieces along the way. And so the next step just is feels like too much. They don't have quite the equipment to to take it. So it's definitely true than math as experience in schools very cumulative. And what I want to in the book was try to avoid that by finding ways to keep connecting it back to reality back to some kind of, you know, very tangible experience for people without yet without getting too lost on the building castles in the sky. So right when when you bring up the chapter on coin flips and as sort of a model for hedge networks. So the chapter is about it starts with the fact that I think you'll notice if you're a teacher when you need siblings than you meet parents, which is that it's just fascinating to see how people do don't resemble each other. You know, you'll meet siblings who look like strangers, you'll meet cousins the twins. You'll need to parents in mmediately. You can see how like you basically do face mash in real time. That is where that kid comes from, that is exactly a combination of those features of each parent. And so just starting from there, the that makes me curious about the genetics of inheritance in how you know have children inherit traits from their parents. And of course, you know, without going deep into the biology, it's pretty simple as around where try thing to genetics, but there's, there's a very simple model captures a lot of which is got Forty-six Rome's. They come in twenty three pairs and I got from each pair. I got one for my dad one from my mom in basically, how did I get those? They each had twenty three pairs. And when you have kid, you flip coin for each hair from Soames and not. You pass on the one off from your mom repass on he from your dad. You know, there's, there's complexity obviously to inheritance. There's crossing over research combined the chromosomes, but that gets you a lot of the way towards understanding how inheritance works in. So you can really just think of it is pointless. You know your genome is Forty-six. Coin flips, it's twenty three point flips that your dad did and twenty three point flips your mom did in. So just thinking about how coin flips work. I mean, that's kind of the simplest kind of promise to question that we have in just looking at what happens when you flip coins. You can sort against the pricing amount of insight about what happens when two people have a kid and when when siblings will won't look like each other? Yeah, we talked a little bit about a coin flips on TMI art episode of information theory, and that's obviously highly related DNA and I just thought it was interesting, the tack that you took Gabriel. What was your favorite chapter the rent so far? So far in this is a party when it's actually one that you suggested. I very, very much have enjoyed chapter ten. The one we talk about some of the mathematics behind the hypothetical design of the death star. I thoroughly enjoyed it. Now, full disclosure, part of that enjoyment was just the absolute, hysterical humor that's in that chapter. Then I've read books by people who are very, very good at technical descriptions. And I've read books that are very, very entertaining. This is thoroughly thoroughly entertaining it review interview Darth Vader and you interview the imperial physicists who are discussing this this design. It is prosaic. Do you do any fan fiction or or what? What kind of creativity are you involved in Bonn this? Yeah. I don't think that the desert chapter, I'm very proud of it is fun to think about the mathematics of what would happen with fearful space station. If you really think about what are the -plication of that, I don't think it rises to the level of these fan fiction because basically what it is I thought, but bunch of things and put them in the mouth of, you know, I just said, well, this is something in a communist would say. So I said the imperial economist than says, this is something architects would say, imperial architects says, I'm not particularly well-versed in the fan fiction row, but I think that there's a little more world building debt to to most of that you have. I've always liked writing always liked making jokes doing creative stuff. I do. You know, through my blog, I do a lot of cartoons that are. Yet, mostly just sort of silly try to avoid doing too many poems because definitely when the mind is trying to think of jokes. Puns are like the just the path of least resistance. But yet I've enjoyed doing doing conciliate creative stuff in the vote was deflated outlet for that. I have to ask just reading the book. We inspired at all by the I think it's a nineteen forty five or nineteen fifty five book how to lie with statistics. You know, that's a book that I haven't read, but it's obvious. I man end of the title of the book. It's such a of, my guess is that I was influenced indirectly because obviously I grew up in a culture that that book helps to inform. Yeah, because headlights districts is a time-tested book that just for audience who hasn't heard of it that tells you essentially house. People used to six to warped version of reality and essentially kind of a math book. It's it's less math than Ben's book, but it makes me think, honestly, that your book will stand the test of time. It's well written from what I could tell the editor new. They're doing yet. I, I had a great at our house really happened. She's someone who's edited a fair number of science books, pop science books, but hasn't anything part of why she was excited to take on the project was that? Yes, she was kind of curious to see what I would say about math given a given a book to say it. So she was really great about nudging me towards particularly the books. If what you're mentioning about the book being very grounded in reality, I think monitor Becca code deserves a lot of credit for that. 'cause my initial outline was a little more stuff on prime numbers and kinda veer off a little bit more towards pure mathematics, which would have been, I think, fun to write about the probably not as a not quite as acceptable on what around into more more problems of of being sensible wine audience. He sounds like the might be a challenge for you in the future because here breaking math, but we don't think that anything is beyond the reach of anyone really in some form. Feinman quote about that or not only Feinman, but several others have said something along the lines of if you can't explain something down to the level where people understand it than you yourself, don't really understand it. I've always said that you it takes forever to learn brightens. Dribble you could tell me any fact about brain surgery, probably remembered forever. So about your book, are there any chapters that you found difficult to write? Not because they are difficult to explain, but because the concept was, I guess, statistics work with this, but like the concept was so not what people think it is. Yeah, that's a good question. I think in some ways, the parts of the book that I sort of labored over the most and reworked the most probably the opening chapter. So begins with a section called how to think like a mathematician and a particularly. The first chapter is three uses them this. This variant on tic TAC toe called open Takako as the kind of entry point or a metaphor for how mathematicians think. Nate is basically that mathematics is about playing with rules in when you tweet the rules a little bit. You can. You can get a whole new game that chapter. I think probably I mean, it makes sense the opening chapter, that's probably the one that took the most work. And I think I remember ads probably four or five drafts deep into that and had what I thought was really good draft and showed it to a friend who's really bright guy, great editor, but not a not a mathematician, and he said a fine piece writing. I enjoyed that. You know it had had jokes in it that, but at the NFL learn more about tic TAC toe than I did about mathematics in. So I, I sort of needed to go back and figure out a way I'd I'd done only one half of the metaphor hadn't actually connected it to mathematics itself in. So I think the right answer question the hardest parts of it were not much addressing any particular mathematical concept, but trying to talk about mathematics in general mathematics as a discipline because it's such a diverse sprawling discipline, like any discipline that it's hard to generalize about without slipping into. Into falsehoods. And so those early chapters imprint talk about mathematics in general, probably took the most finessing. That's interesting in his nice you paid that much attention to to it. I think when constant and mathematical research is a quote that I heard mathematics is like trying to get to the store and then. Ending up at your grandma's house and then ending up on the moon, and then finally getting to the store. So this is one of my favorite questions out. I'd like to ask anybody who is passionate about mathematics or science general. Who are your favorite authors in the subject area question so too. So. Right? So popularized by mathematics, there's a lot that I that I think do great work. I really like. Hesitant to see who I who I on the on my desk. Right now. I've got Hannah fries book about algorithms that are just finished, which I thought was really nice, bow hall Lockhart who read this. This wonderful essay called high as it's known as locker laments the, they say, it's it's a sort of polemic against the state of of mathematics education as it is, which I found really influence. When I first reading twenty two or twenty. Three just started teaching in his book called measurement which relates out a lot of problems. Students, drug asses, book, joy vaccines, really wonderful Jordan, Alan Berg's book. How not to be wrong, really excellent. Simon sings, writing mathematics house. Last theorem that's really great. Chaban Roberts has written to really wonderful Agra Fay's of mathematicians. Those are. There's a almost any time I pick up a, you know, the kind of book that shows up on the on the math shelf. The bookstore. I find something yet. There's almost always something in that volume that I'm gonna joy. Now who else I'm getting. There's a few that I think will out of that Jonathan. May I ask you, what is your all time favorite book? Oh, I don't. Okay. Actually, I have one. I mean, how do you feel about Goodell 's your buck as a science writer? Have you ready yet? Yeah, I haven't read that book. I'm like a third of the way through a collection of essays Hostetter into the image. Wonderful writing. He's really, he's really flavorful. Interesting, opinionated. Brilliant writer. You read a person paper on purity and language. Oh yes. A have yet. His great. His parody of sapphire ride is the is the name of the writer whose rated it. It's reflecting on gender language. Basically, the threw really yet. Swabi. Gender or race? Yeah. Yeah, saying there's a, there's a few other ones. And actually I was delighted to see the on your blog. You listed a lot of the stuff that we read, including comics, like x, Casey, Saturday, morning, breakfast, cereal. I think that's what it was called. And then there was those one that we were just introduced to it. It's the, what? Is it the star codex? I'm saying it wrong. I'm that at remember dates, Dr codex. That's a phenomenal blog. Oh my goodness. There's one more that I wanted to mention. We've delved in recently. Are you familiar with the fan fiction? Harry Potter and the methods of rationality. It's been on my to realis- rages. Yeah. Yeah. I know I am from there. Really great things about, oh, it's phenomenal. It's phenomenal. As I'm reading it, he quotes so many people. He talks about Richard fine men. He talks about mathematicians. He talks about concepts in things like hedge fund managing. It's it's, oh, it's the author is just out of this world. We know that you spent some time as a teacher. We've got a few questions about education here. This was sent in by a co worker of mine who read the entire book. Her name is cat. She's awesome. She writes, how do you respond when people say, oh, well, you're just good with numbers. So of course, math makes sense to you. Yeah, one one assumption that's contained in there which I think is very common among people who feel sort of slightly math verse. Is that not MAC solvent numbers? I think knowing some people who are professional mathematicians in being a math teacher, knowing of math teachers, many mathematicians like to disavow that idea that masters are good numbers, boast about how bad they are with Nick. I think it's a way of reorienting. People's focus on mathematics is not arithmetic. It's not fairly computation. It's about logic, and it's about argument, and it's about conceptualizing things and creating models of of reality in. So yeah, that that tends to be my answer where people assume that mathematics is all about arithmetic. You know, that's that's one interesting, exciting part mathematics, but there's a lot more to it. What do you think that the process of learning math does to a brain just in general, how does it infect the other ways of thinking? Yeah. That's a really good question. It depends what kind of mathematics, but I think the to me, one of the coolest possibilities of mathematician can do is that it can be a really crisp and transformative education logic says, for example, ABRAHAM LINCOLN seed in the movie Lincoln where he suddenly one or two point. He kind of rattles off some Euclid quotes, which is totally true history. 'cause Lincoln love Euclid. In fact, like in the middle of his legal studies, he kept coming cross references to Euclid as just the model of how logic works that somehow the the arguments that Euclid laid out in his geometry book were the purest and the the most certain sort of arguments that one could give. He actually kind of abandoned his legal studies in back and for like six weeks, just read math radio, good learned about geometric proof and obviously Lincoln someone. I mean, he became a lawyer, became the best president. We've had. You know, he was someone for whom argument was really central to what he did when he contributed to the country. So to me, that's a pr-. Pretty good if you're gonna if you're gonna argue from anecdote that's Antic dot RB from. 'cause I think Lincoln understood that mathematics education could teach logic in a really profound way. There's a subject that a lot of people think is really hard that obviously we call geometry and we, we have the best textbook that almost anybody's ever written for John retrieve. We've had it for three thousand years. You know, the elements. Why is that not used in your opinion. The jump checks, we have tended draw from Euclid. They sort of rearranged the assumptions little bed fuss with little bit end. I think a question of why wise jump through still hard to teach. I guess what it comes down to maybe is that having a great textbook doesn't constitute a great education. They're there on a night acts out there. People can learn from book, but for most people, it takes a more active experience. He needs someone talking to you on seeing the work you're doing responding to. It can leading you on the journey that is a that is a learning experience that is class. And so the fact that you wrote down is really definitive text thousand years ago. Twenty five hundred years ago is is a great resource but doesn't constitute education. Now I looked at some geometry textbooks and my mother used to be a science teacher and math teacher, and they don't seem like they're, they cater much better to educational experience. Like I don't see what they do. Yeah. No, that's fair. I think the way the way tend to think about curriculum is that it's not designed so much as it forms through. Literal processes. So what goes into a curriculum while there the pressures of, you know, there's probably some kind of design vision in an actual subject matter expert who was writing it. There's also gonna be political officials, whether their state the education board people, or superintendents or whoever who are plying, some kind of political pressure on the curriculum writer. Not say, political pressure is a is a bad thing. It's the, you know, sometimes speaking with the voice of parents collectively the voice of businesses or the voice of. Of citizens who have some kind of interest in it anyway. ZIM serve garbled explanation rue though. The way I think about curriculum is that a lot of different forces combine to shape it in. So looking for the single design behind curriculum often doesn't it's very unsatisfying because we don't wanna finding a single design. What we want to finding is that well, this topic got included for that reason. This topic include for that reason assessment takes this form. Is that person. One of these has meant to form this way. I think curriculum school tend to satisfy no one. And so it's not necessarily simple matter of if one good designer could just come in and fix the math curriculum because the math curriculum serving a lot of roles society then faces a lot different pressures, which are the best pressures k.. The pressures of applying green ask you to rank everything on a linear scale. This gets one variable. Yeah. So another question about education and this kind of I think you you sort of touched on this a little bit, but what do you find it to be the single most frustrating thing about teaching math? Definitely. The most frustrating experiences teaching math is very simply when you when you're trying to teach something and the students are not managing to learn it. And that's frustrating for the teacher because you start to doubt yourself in the instruction that year they're giving stretch wanna blame the students in structuring the students 'cause they started at themselves in their ability to learn it and they wanna blame the teacher, and it's really easy to get caught in this kind of dysfunctional cycle is actually a Balogh of yours that I read tweeted yesterday that I read, and I think it was it's winning most popular ones. It's called what it's like to. Oh, I'm gonna say wrong. What it's like to not be very good at math Williams. Madame math. Yeah, that's when you're most popular blogs, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Those those really early on the blog. It was the fifth or sixth post or something. So the first month that I've been doing the blog and regular, it's like to sort of pulling out the internet. You're not put it out there. Not necessarily can be a lot of feedback on and that one really took off that resonated with people because I, I sorta dug through my experience and it was hard to right. I mean, I wrote, you know, when right sort of five hundred words probably like hedges caveats. Delete later. Explain why wasn't this was really failure. Either were good circumstances as to why struggled in this class. But then when I finally was able to force myself to writers piece about how I took this policy class, didn't get it. I really didn't. I wasn't able to grasp what the class was about, and I had to give this presentation that I was really prepared for and sort of had to go grovelling to the professor the day before to just ask for help them mercy in it was even, you know, few years later writing about that. It was really surprisingly hard to bring myself to just looking at the. Son just look right at that experience in what had I felt in. Why had done what I did? Why react to the way I reacted 'cause it really, really stings when you're not getting something in mathematics. That's a really painful experience are. Absolutely. And so I think I think that's something that you know being able to write that down thrust jokes in there. I think that that resonate with people because almost anyone who's if you spent long off in a math classrooms, Matthew, you're gonna have that experience at some point or another. We could do an entire podcast or series of podcasts on math frustrations, I think, and it would relate very well. You know. I, I don't know if I should say that's a future episode. I feel like making upset about mouth frustration itself may be frustrating, maybe. So I think I might just as little pallet cleanser, we'll go down here to the to one of the what are your favorites? What are your favorite fi stories? And that can be novels or comics, or movies or shows. And why. It's a tough question. So I think probably when it comes to TV shows as still don't think there's a better science fiction show for me in in in my heart than Star Trek next generation. I enjoy these face nine admired he space nine. It's got a lot of Scott. Thanks to it on bell south Alaska's Gloria show. I think one of the people who will defend the finale but Star Trek, the next generation, particularly once it gets going once you get these these episodes with Patrick Stewart, just getting the heart of what it is to be human moments as there's the episode, probably one of the best of television that there's been is they upset were probe comes in and zaps the captain, and suddenly he's in the life of this man on Elian planet and over the course of the episode, he lives like thirty years on the salient planet. They have called the inner light and experiences. This experiences, this whole life as this man with a different name on a different planet in that. At the end of the episode, he zaps back into. His own body and has to live the rest of the series with the memories of this life of the that he lived atmos- Lhasa validation. That is a kind of story that you really can't tell any other in any other John rather than than science fiction fantasy the ends, and there's something that's able to say about what life is and what experiences that yet more more conventional fiction just can't can't go into that kind of territory. I'll say I, it's pretty, it's pretty clear to me where Rick and Morty draws a lot of their plots in their subplots from there's an episode all about that. But I think in this case, it's a video game. Oh, yeah. Good forgotten about that. Yeah. Where where he plays a guy who. His name though the guy in the name of the video game. Oh yeah. It's gosh, Google it real quick. Yeah, there's, yeah, there's this moment. Rigor, mortis enemy takes. I would imagine virtually infinite number of influences Denso's Trump's mopping. Oh, absolutely. So God actually look the name of that one out. But yeah, I think in that mode, he is, of course, born is a baby in lives out as a man who ends up working at a carpet store and. I think he battles cancer and survives, and then he goes back to the carpet store or something, and then you ends up dying as an ROY. It's called ROY, ROY. That's right. In the only foles a minute and a half the street time in the morning. Yeah. Do you think that there is? I mean, I guess I know of a fiction that satisfies this criteria. It's one that Gabriel's been bringing up Harry Potter in the methods of rationality, and I guess some of op stories will fit this category too, but not just science fiction, math, FAI. Yeah. I just read the first two foundation books this year, and I think Reta the Mafikeng something of thought about. There's a nice soon yet the there's nice website at the Google map fiction. Someone's put together a really lovely database of all sorts of math fiction stories. I think foundation by Asimov is probably one of the best examples in invention. It said in this kind of few millennia in the future on twelve thousand years in the future or something, the whole galaxy is populated by humans. It's enormous population is lactic empire and it's about to fall to sort of had on the fall of room. And this one. Really a mathematician, impera Selden through brilliant and slightly vague mathematics is able to for see the fall of the civilization and make just a little nudge, sort of put a few pieces into play that he thinks can the won't be able to prevent the fall of relation but will be able to shorten the dark age that follows. So instead of being a thirty millennium age of darkness where the galaxies in turmoil, he thinks short down to a single YM. You know, it's much more kind of civilizational adventure story than it is destroyed by mathematics, but at the heart of it is this idea that that this one math matter figure some have predicted millennia of galactic future using probability, basically. Wow. Okay. Gosh, we, there's plenty of questions that I could easily grab any one of them. You know what I thought I'd ask you Ben is, is there anything that you in particular would like to talk about whether it is about your book or math in general, or anything. Else. Nothing leaps to mind. I mean, I, it's funny I when people ask me what I do right now at the moment we are working on this book and I've got a second book I'll be working on that will come out in about a year, and then Frederick doing interviews like this for this book which really fund this sort of become my full time thing. But teaching has been the bulk of my career, and I still think myself very much as a teacher in, so you guys both have experienced mathematician to, but basically I like to take every chance I get to just put into good word for for math education as a profession. I think particularly for for people who are interested in technical fields should mathematics, but also. Enjoy having a highly social work life. You know to to be around people all day methylation is really pretty cool for that in the world needs, math teachers will always need math teachers. I'm certainly. Now, how do you think that math is universal or is not universal? And is it a language for the physical world or is it a language for something deeper or is the idea of something deeper than the physical world itself ingest because it depends on the physical world exist. Yeah, it's funny minder standing. If you talk to philosophers, you don't tend to find a lot of lateness, right? This idea that there's this magical non-physical world of kind of pure objects, pure geometric objects, like triangles and things when it comes to plagiarism. I don't think from what I understand most philosophers is days are not particularly played nece. So plagiarism is kind of the idea. Read this idea. You've got forms that, you know, when you look at a chair and I look at a chair right out of Ramin there to chairs, and they're like pretty different one. Wooden. One of them is like Kenya in, but somehow they're both chairs, right? They both have some essence of chernow's to them even set on if got support below end. So Plato imagines that somehow there's a form of the chair, like the essence of chairdennis in that there's this world, it's not our world's physical world at some other imaginary mind world where the forms all live. Cool idea in Plato thought of it doesn't seem to be something philosophers five, Eric compelling today. But if you talked to mathematicians match since he much much more inclined towards that because it just feels true about triangles. Like, you know, I draw triangles not perfect triangles, the wildly, the coroner's aren't quite sharp. Perfect. You know, Utah. Triangles thing happens. We all different triangles. None of them play feels like a perfect triangle, but we have this notion of a perfect triangle teams. Easy to imagine that had just feels like there's some kind of abstract idea that all of our broken earthly triangles are pointing gesturing at. So I think you know, once you've had some experience with mathematics, it's really hard to resist that idea that there is there is some kind of deeper reality to logic, something that goes beyond the physical world. Niger's wanna point out the us chairs, example, which we've Ellen breaking out. I think three or four times. Yeah. Yeah, I used it for entry. We keep using chairs. The big bang theory shares did come up on that Assad. Oh, the big. What would that was talking about? How the big bang theory when the singularity explodes, it's strange because it should be uniform distribution of things that you still had an. Like chairs? Yeah, yeah, he's mentioned he, Jonathan. Has these amazing leaps of logic, he's a brilliant person, but his leaves of logics are four or five steps ahead of ours. So he was talking about why it's a mystery with the big bang how we have things like chairs, and we just thought, I'm sorry, I'm not following so. So. Yeah. Yeah, it was great commerce. The leaves of Lago is bringing back to chairs to. Yeah, yeah. Okay. So few questions here. These are some that were submitted by cat. Actually. She says she has her degree in a field in biology. I believe it's biophysics and she says biology has a central dogma does math? Yeah. Question I insured. No math doesn't have a central dogma. I think if I had to name one, I mean one that's comparable to the central dogma biology. You know, the idea that central, essentially the process of gene expression, inheritance write us central Valgy. So the closest analogy I can think of math is kinda fun. It's a fun parlor game to play, like, what would you call the central dogma to me? I think the Kircheisen plane and the idea of more generally that geometric objects can be expressed algebraic Lii and that algebraic relationships can be visualized. Geometrically. You know, the fact that you talk about. The line. Why was ex- ex- not align saying to their Abel's x. y. or the same thing. They could be both five, ten in the new draw coordinate plan in some of the comes straight line passing through the origin with slope of one into the idea that there's a correspondence between the world of algebra in the world geometry. You know, that doesn't get you all of mathematics, but there's an awful lot of mathematics that's only one or two steps removed from that basic insight. So of course you care about math enough to write a book about it. You care enough about math to study it now. I guess the question is in we do the same thing. I know why do any of this. I don't mean that in in the absolute sense, like why bother with life? I mean, why should mathematics be part of our world? What is due to take the question? I would like, you know. You know, when I hear the people answer that question or try to give the case for why math. I think you get two basic kinds of answers on. One answer is that Matthew practical, the math is house. Spreadsheets were again, it's how markets were gonna, have spaceships work in. So if you wanna get things done in the world, you need math for all these practical reasons in the other answer you get is that math is beautiful in math is had earns in its logic in its full of these lovely visuals that don't necessarily have to mean anything. They're just sort of expressions of the human intellect in the human spirit. When I find interesting, my answer to the question is that if you notice those two answers seem if not opposites than at least somewhat opposed if math is a practical matter than why would we expect it to youthful? And if math is about chasing beautiful ideas and following our curiosity than there's no reason to expect it to be particularly practical end yet it's both simultaneously all the time. They're all these weird cases where searching for. The practical solution to some problem turns out some absolutely beautiful mathematics or vice versa. Searching forgivable mathematics produces something of real practicality. Non including John Matry is probably my favorite example said that you can come up with imaginary geometry's that don't seem to work the way regular Jamat works in those two sat there in Mathewson's minds for the few centuries hundred years hundred years hundred years. And then suddenly stand came along and was able to to demonstrate those the sort of weird imaginary geometry's are actually the geometry of our physical reality. So to me, I mean, what's the case for mathematics? It's not just the practicality or the beauty, but the very weird way that manages to be both simultaneously. Yeah, moles reminded that you mentioned that of food food is absolutely necessary to sustain life, but also we, you know, you have like five course restaurants, right? Yeah, regular Malik. My friends pictures of stuff. They're cooking on Instagram, like adds. It has been that looks like it would track. Fulfill my hunger ended his office to be able to admire. So Mathis food is what we're coming to the comparisons out. Yeah, is very nutritious in lovely. So people to bite of your book because that was a clever to say, where can they do that? Yeah, pretty much anywhere you like the bible. So if you wanna get it online retail, you wanna go to Amazon. It's simply they'll on Amazon Barnes. Nobles should have copies. Other bookstores should have copies to. If you got a favorite bookstore go there and if they don't have it, you can requested all for him. Wonderful. Well, is there anything you'd like to say signing off? No. Thanks so much for the interview. Talking to guess. I'm Jonathan and I'm Gabriel. And this has been breaking math. So that was Ben with his new book math with bad drawings. And if you want to spend even more money on math related things, what can they get from our patriotic we have for our patriots for a one time, donation of thirty five dollars for USA audience, a poster on Tensor's which is the mathematics used United Stein's general relativity. Yeah. I mean, some of the math medics, definitely. But we also. Are selling internationally, but we're gonna have to collect shipping and just go to patriots. Dot, coms raking math to do that. If you on Gabriel to get a tattoo Email as breaking podcasts at gmail.com. And you see our Facebook at Facebook dot com says, breaking the deal. What was it? One hundred emails, one hundred thousand two months and we are wrapping up. It'll be two months here pretty well. It's the end of September the end of October. So. Yeah. So starting ailing. Yeah. And I think the tattoo was going to be the information paradox equation and a and a cool symbol Lagos with it. So we're going to do it and we're gonna live on a life dream it, but we will take pictures, tweet them out. So we'll be sufficiently media saturated. Good. Bye.

Ben Orlan Gabriel Jonathan ABRAHAM LINCOLN John Matry writer Google editor Euclid Madame math Lago Harry Potter UK Matthew Tottenham Booker Matt Dana Twitter
BIRDS OF PASSAGE - Double Toasted Audio Review

Double Toasted

09:45 min | 2 years ago

BIRDS OF PASSAGE - Double Toasted Audio Review

"So now, what's it called bird of passage bird? Of. Wjr trailer. Go ahead and pull this up on download it. So we don't have any problems with this. At fun. Call me off guard. Good heaven core. Go here tonight. Yeah. I old goodie. Yeah. What him last Friday? We get fucked up. But which I'll go we went to I went over to Milo crown. Okay. It's favorite place. Yeah. Yeah. We it was Miller south by wasn't as crowded. I thought it was going to be really found park and releasing. Oh, no kidding. And we got this thing when we get together. We just start buying each other. Tequila sodas. Okay. Yeah. Drink it choice. And we just kept trying to outdo each other to the point. We fucked us sales. Good. Very good. Good time with all Mr. Goodwin. Let me see. All right. Did it? What? Have you had a good time here, man? Nice. Let here that old drew. It's been been nicer be weird having him. Not here told net last nightmare d'aquin becoming obvious the long breaking a harsh when you leave. It's not right. It's not kosher. And we'll forget about you know, I know. No, no. It's about time. Now's been great having you look what he got me. You know, I keep my phone going up. I don't want to books. Now, he got me. Got me. You got the phone holder. Oh, yeah. Look at dominos while I was away. The way itself bus all the way. You still those rows came away roses, how nice she was. Death doesn't white roses. He means them my way. Maybe that's what he means. He wants me for him. Oh, all right. I got here. Birds the passage in don't you wanna say about this before we start the trailer? I thought well I want to watch the trailer game because I came into this thinking it was something different than what it was. Okay. And I don't know what it is. But it's a it's a it's it's a very, it's art house movie foreign film. But very visual. Very busy. Okay. Says about everything right now. All right. Let's go ahead and take a look at the trailer of birds of passage which Martin saw I did not so Mars and give you his review after this. The will should do a Euclid. Sees the secret. Joshua reporter nopal sweet too. Yeah. So got the by lane. So. I have to what Bush at all. Why? Really, see I. How do you deal? They. Yeah. You in wing not getting again. Up. Bye. Yeah. Getting them. We. For my. Oh. We had a pool away. Where's this soon Columbia? Okay. This narcos man said it was our film. That's the thing. I it it. It does so much the all that with the the ritualistic stuff going on. And I was thinking like man, it's going to be like cry drug crime and supernatural, but I really is not much supernatural about it. But just that they are these people they're Indian African what they call them wasiyu indigenous people who have a lot of superstition, and it starts with just really focusing on their culture as I this is interesting Americans come over and just say like, hey, can you guys get some? We'd like we know a guy, and Dan you gotta go that far to score. They were in the peace corps. So they were already down there. Okay. And then the like, hey, man. I know what dude got a lot of we we can get and they start it turns this, very simple culture and today come all about the drug trade. It's it's it's the origin. This is pre Pablo Escobar into all that. And and the reason I brought up that I know you'd find interesting about it because it starts in the sixties. And it has that look about it the whole time. Nice. And and later goes the less they start doing all the all the really cinematography. Cinematic work, but you just caught up in the story about that point. Yeah. You know? It's funny. You say that I that I liked that. Because you know, it was one thing that their brother, right? I was looking at him like damn I like stuff, right? I won't their shirt. Is it because you didn't see the trailer? No, I did seem to see the trailer before you saw the movie. Yeah. Because see what I saw this. I didn't get at all a supernatural from an oddball for sure like, okay. This is to be an origin story about some sort of drug trade going on which is fascinating. You know? I just thought it was just kind of you know, the thing that separates it from a lot of the drug movies that you see is there is an artistic representation of the culture. Yeah. Which is cool. That's nice. You know, you don't see too many drug movies where they got straight on artistry this way too right because they they're living in what is basically as poor village. But then they had this way of life that for the most part works, and then drugs money comes in and this corruption betrayal, one after the next is that does that make it a, you know, when you hear about because that's that's what's cool about a drug movies man is always somebody who's and somebody out of some kind of. Trill factions going any other does it have all that? Yeah. It's got that. You got one guy who's just kinda he's kinda wild. And he does that thing where like man, what did you do that? You just you just fucked fucked. Everybody just sets up a chain reaction. Oh, this man. Yeah. It was cool. I I saw the trailer over at the AFS theater for some other movie. And they showed it see watching on the big screen. I was like oh shit. This looks bad as but whenever they show a movie there, they show one or two days. And then forget it. But then we got sent a link for this. Oh, we did. Yeah. My Washington your Email. Yeah. I watched it today because it said it was coming out this week. And I was like all right. Go ahead and watch it, and yeah, I mostly went to tell you about it. But I thought it looked cool. Yeah. What would you give it give it a give it a low full price? I'll really nice, man. Now, you really got me one to see this. I really I'm into. I'm glad we we played this, man. Yeah. My wash this is this weekend. And it's bloody. But not but not gory. Like most time people get shot the camera's not on the person. Didn't just cool. Yeah. Because you can see it doesn't have a big budget. But they do a lot with nice even pre she at that more. I have a big budget of people forced to be more creative. They're way. Yeah. So you might be watching the documentary. It also has another thing that you like where they got a lot of local people who aren't actors to be actors in it. You know, what that's what I liked about that movie that we saw to the Mustang Mustang people that you just couldn't tell it. They like that a lot. Yeah. So.

Milo crown peace corps dominos Mustang Mr. Goodwin Miller south reporter Pablo Escobar Euclid AFS theater Columbia Bush Martin Washington Dan two days
Eating Disorder Insights Podcast  Episode 1  Setting the scene for the series..

Eating Disorder Insights Podcast

15:51 min | 3 years ago

Eating Disorder Insights Podcast Episode 1 Setting the scene for the series..

"Hello. And welcome to this. The very first episode of the eating disorder insights podcast. My name is Mark Tyler and on your host for the show. But not only that I'm also a practicing mental health clinician who's worked for over twenty five years with children and families experiencing eating disorders. And this the first show on going to be talking about the reasons why I decided to give this information as podcast also have a look at some of the assumptions that I'm going to making view as a family and also to be thinking about some of the assumptions that I won't make use of family. I'm also gonna make some guesses as to the assumptions that you might be making about me or this podcast self. So let's get started. Now marines for producing this podcast is because I have worked with lots of families over the last twenty five years who have shared some really insightful pieces of information with me, and I've had many conversations where parents have said if I'd had this information right at the beginning. It would have been really really useful for us. And so with that in mind that I want to share some of that information with you. So in some ways, you can learn from the experiences to other families have had that are in the same position as you as a family with a child with a restrictive eighteen disorder. You're already gonna be spending. Lots and lots of time and effort in managing and supporting your child. It may be your life has changed. You might have given up different hobbies or interests that you've had might be the relationship with your partner has had to go on the back burner for a little while. And so I don't wanna be taking up any more of the remaining spat on that you have in learning more information about eating disorders. If I'd given you the info. Mation in written form or YouTube clip, you'd have to find the time to sit down specifically either rate of the information or watch the clip the beauty of doing this with the podcast is that you can do other things such as commuting to work on the bustle, the crane on your car. You can do in household tasks and took yourself into an MP three player and just listened to the podcast. It's still gives you that free time to be doing other activities that are just not eating disorder related. So are really wanted to protect that time for you. Because I think that's really important. Also, listening to this information podcast means that you can come back to it. You can play the recording again. And again, if you feel that you need to revisit it. Or if you're listening to further pursuits, and I make reference to something that we talked about in Anneli represented yet. Click on it, go back and listen to it at the same time. It just makes it easier for you to get the information. So what about the format of the podcast itself? Okay. I want to give you information that is jogging free as I can make it with. Out too much theory. I'm gonna give you just as much theories as is needed to understand the concept that I'm talking about. But I'm not gonna go into long laborious discussions about research and evidence that's out there. You can find information if you really want to, but that's not gonna be the content of this podcast. The aim of the podcast is to give you information in a way that makes it really usable to the situation that you're finding yourself in. We're not gonna look so much about the wise. No airforce, we're gonna look much more about the house in the how to so it's gonna be very practical information. It's going to be information that you're going to be able to take away from this podcast and used ereck Louis. That's my hope. I'm also going to give you the information in a as much of a sequenced orders. I can do. So the information's going to build. Now. That's my thought it may be that you as a listener may already of how to look down the list of podcast and seen particular subjects that you feel you'd like to take a look. And by all means go. Are you there? If in the episode, I then refer back to previous episodes of the podcast. You can always jump back in always as much as I can give you the number of the podcast. It was before. If I did remember on the show. What will also gonna do is? It's not just going to be about me giving you theoretical information. I'm going to be asking you to be thinking about your own particular situation that you're in how you feel about the what are your ABS of -ation in those situations. And then getting you to try new tusks and experiments based on the information that you've learned in the podcast. It's really up to you. You try that families that I've used this technique before have come back and said, you know, what I didn't really have much faith that we've got to work. But when I tried to always really surprised by my child's reaction. So if you're interested give it a go, you might see some new things that kind of help to change the situation that you're in. So let me have with you about the basic assumptions that I'm going to make fast is that you have a young person in your family who is restricting their eating and losing. Wait. Now, they may or may not already have a diagnosis of an eating disorder. But that leads me onto the second assumption, which is if you're accessing this podcast because you are concerned about your child's health, then it's really important that you see support and advice from a suitably qualified clinician now that could be go to your GP, and you discuss your concerns there or you might be thinking about making contact with your local chart adolescent specialist eating disorders team either way. It's really important that you seek advice specifically about your child and your family issues, this podcast is not going to address those. So that's an assumption. I go to make is already started to seek out or see where you can get that specialist advice from for yourself. Also assume that you have little or no knowledge of eating disorders. You don't need to read anything else or been to any other websites in order to make use of this podcast. I'm going to give the information from the grassroots level upwards in order that that helps you to gradually build upon your knowledge of eating disorders and to help you to understand your tells difficulties are make the changes that you need to make. Two of the cornerstones of information. I'm going to keep you the first one is I'm going to help you to separate the eating disorder from your child. Now. The reasons why that's important because what you then are able to do is to start identifying which behaviors are as a result of your eighteen disorder which behaviors Bill onto your child. Once you're able to make that differentiation that then helps you to support your child and manage the eating disorder much much more effectively also gonna make assumptions that you've got a lots of feelings and worries and concerns about your child, and I may be able to help you to navigate through some of the confusing conflicting feelings that you have an also some of those situations at now started to arise that whenever there before. It might be that your that your child isn't responding in the same way that they used to when for instance, you put their arm randomly, you'll tell them things going to be okay or those normal ways in which you are able to reassure your child. Now, you're. When those techniques all those methods, and they're just not working, you're getting very different reaction, and that can be really quite confusing causing you to wa-, connect shells and your family to be in that position where you read know how to support your child anymore, and you're really working hard just not to upset them. And that can be quite a confusing and difficult situation for you to be so part of my something is that that's happening for you too. Because it happened to quite a few families. And as a last assumption. I'm assuming that you're going to be open and inquisitive and wants to think about the information that's contained in this podcast. Now, it may be that some of the things I say are a little bit challenging it might be ROY identify thoughts and feelings that may I guess be interrupting the recovery process a new may be listening thinking off. Yeah. Okay. I do that all that's a situation that we've been in one of the things I'll say about that that worry a lot of their actions that you've had in the confusions and the anger knee upset the feelings that you feel on normal part of the. Process of recovery. I guess the pot where I would like it to be open to is. If there are ways that you are supporting your child or field that you're supporting your child that are getting in the white or may be making things worse. My substance that your open an inquisitive as to finding other ways of managing most situations. So what are some of the assumptions that I'm not going to make okay? The first one I think is really important for you to know. And that's the you are not the cause of your child eating disorder K. I really want to be clear about that. You are not the course of your child's eating disorder. In fact, it's completely the opposite. You are the best resource that your child has for success. You all the people that are around your child twenty four hours a day seven days a week if we can give you the techniques and the information that will help to support your child and beat the eating disorder. What better way than to have somebody with information to around the child all the time? So see yourself as a resource, you might not feel that way right now, you may feel totally helpless. You may feel as if a lot of things you try a just making things worse. But at worry that's completely normal and with support that will be able to change. So I guess you still may have the question. So what has caused this eighteen disorder? Why is it here? Why? As it moved in with our family. What labor the point, but research has shown that there are so many different components that come together to create an eighteen disorder. It can be social aspects genetic the cumby biological components that come together to just create that perfect storm, which triggers an eating disorder. I'm not going to make some sense about what your family is. We know that families can be made up in lots and lots of different ways. And no to family saw the same. It may be that your a single parent that your same sex parents or that you're adopted or foster parents or that your grandparents carrying a child or it may be that your family's made up of unrelated people friends work colleagues or people from church your family's what you decided to be. And there's no rules to that. It's whatever works for you. Now, while we're on the subject of a sumptious there are some assumptions families make when they come to treatment. And so just want to share some of them with you because it may be that you have some of those same assumptions yourself some families make the assumption that that child never going to need medical treatments or specialist inpatient treatment for their eating disorder. They had this thought that the community treatments or the support that they set up themselves is going to do the job. And now, there are some cases when? That happens. But there are lots of cases that I've worked with where the eating disorder issue so powerful that it has caused medical complications. And the children of how to spend a period of time in pediatric services or indeed the onus is so powerful that it's needed a specialist. Twenty four hour team a ranch old in order to help them to recover. So I don't want you to make such that the treatment for your child will never go that far hence, the reason again while I want you to seek that individual treatment for yourself and get your child seen by a professional. There is a train of thought and some of the families that I've met that they don't need to challenge their child, and I don't want my child to be upset throughout treatment. And it can be very scary and anxiety provoking for them when we asked them to challenge that child directly. Now a child that doesn't want to eat is not going to start to eat without a level of anxiety and fear. Now, what that means is that as a family, the aren't going to be times when you are, you know, you are going to ask you to do something that they're going to find very frightening that they're going to be upset by the is going to make them tear for that is going to make them angry, and some families feel that this needs to be avoided because they don't want to upset their child, and the can be fear that if I upset my child Tim much than the not going to eat enough. What I would say is there is no way of treating your child with eighteen disorder without having to push. Through some of those fears and some of those very strong emotions in your child. So when you are applying some of the strategies that I'm going to talk about in this podcast. And also that your treatment team will talk about there may be some level there of having to upset your child or having to do things that, you know, frightens them now as parents that's the last thing in the world that we want. We don't want agile to be upset. We don't want them to be hurt. It's inheriting our genes, I suppose his parents is that we do things that make child feel happy and may catch outfield safe. Now that goes against what we need to do in the treatment of eighteen disorder. But the end result that you want is your child to be that happy child unsafe and feel free from the worrisome thoughts, and the only way you can do that is by going through the treatment and challenging the onus itself. So there's no way of voiding the anger in the motion that's going to come out of your child. It's a necessary part of the treatment. Another assumption that sometimes my family's is that their child who will be able to recover within a period of weeks or a period of months. The reality of that is it can take a period of years sometimes for a child to fully recover from an eighteen disorder. The early treatment starts the better, the prognosis is and the shorter the treatment can be. But the reality is that no one can really say exactly when a child is going to recover from an illness. There are too many different components to consider their psychological. Those physical components. There's also emotional components. And also it depends on where your child is through their developmental stage. This lots lots of different things to consider. It's not as easy as some families feel that when my child gets to a recovery weight, and we will be saying more about to recovery white in Leith rep associates than they become well, it's not as easy as that. Also, one of the factors that a lot of families assume is that they are not going to be able to do this that they're not skilled enough that they don't have the courage that they don't have the ability to support their child. So what I would say to you is that inside you you do have the strength and the energy and the ability to support your alter the Selma's. So I want to offer that to you as with a with a sense of hope, I guess for me to hold the faith. The things can change us a family if you are determined enough, and if you are committed enough to support your child through this time, it's not gonna be an easy time for any of you. The maybe things that you're going to need temporarily give up on your life will change for a period of time. Okay. So that's the end of the first episode. So the next episode is going to look specifically at how you can separate at your child's eating disorder from your child. And the reasons why that's important to do. So if that sounds interesting to you, and it sounds that's information that you want to know. Then tune into the next episode now just quickly about how you can access a podcast. You can go to the website. It's eating sort of insights dot com at Euclid on these subscribe button. And all the instructions are there for you as soon as you subscribe, a sip before all if you have set will be sent to you pod catcher or to your PC, or whatever you're using. And if you want to give me feedback podcast you can do that by going to podcast at eighteen disorder, insights dot com. You can give me a tweet over on Twitter, which is at e d underscore insights underscore pot or you can find us oh from Facebook. So that's enough an set. So I will see you in a couple of weeks time. If you don't hear from Elliot, NATs goodbye.

Mark Tyler partner YouTube Anneli Twitter ereck Louis Euclid wa Facebook Leith Elliot Tim twenty five years twenty four hours Twenty four hour seven days
5-20-20 Mike Trivisonno Show

The Mike Trivisonno Show

2:21:21 hr | 1 year ago

5-20-20 Mike Trivisonno Show

"L. INC DOT COM. Hey it's a trip for yes. Salad dressing. Means means grandma in Greek. And these gourmet salad dressings. The makes would make any grandmother proud. They're so good. I could drink them right out of the bottle now. There's five different kinds of Ya ya salad dressing balsamic white ball. zomig Italian Greek and their signature. White French. I mean it is truly unbelievable. I loved the White French. Yeah as gluten-free free loan carbs, sodium sugar, and there's no preservatives and you can buy it at giant Eagle. Or All acnes in the produce section, or you can go to website yacht dressing dot com just like grandma used to make the website. Yeah, yeah's dressing. Dot Com. I usually don't start to show. That IF I. Ever have started the show. Like I'm about to start it today. But I WANNA go right to a phone call. Let's go right to a caller. Jim From Euclid Jim. Are you there? Also YOU WANNA. Tell me what happened today. Well for the last seven weeks, I've been filing on the unemployment fight. The normal unemployment site you meeting denied every week, but a couple of weeks ago, they started this. Do Pandemic on a planet. So. I filled out name address phone number all the information. Banking Information. And you'd have to. Send it in you. Click on thing and then tells you to verify your email. All your verified email would never come back. It was locked in a loop I. Talk to him on a fault. Today I get email like all look I. Maybe I'm going to finally get a check sponsored here now. You're P way applicants. The delight consulting is currently under contract with Ohio Department of job. The daily services to assist tatum Ohio the new string. The Pandemic Point Assistance Program. The light discovered on May fifteen, twenty twenty. That's my name Social Security Number Street Adra. Pertaining to my application for and receipt unemployment compensation benefits, and advertently had the capability to be used by other unemployed McLean. There astor the immediately began an investigation. Discovery Exposure we took immediate steps to stop further access. And then it goes on where I should contact all my credit bureaus and Tom this happen. They're not doing nothing for me. Other than getting my deformation phone, thank you Mr Hawaiian. So the unemployment site for the state of Ohio. That you filed under has been hacked and I would say that actors. I would say they got hacked. Because this is a form lighter doesn't have my name at the top of my information was stolen seems to me. Has Your callers you're anybody else? Doctors letter that million dead I bet you. Everybody did because the site never worked. and. They told me they had a glitch. The girl when I talked to her on the phone after take three days to try to contact somebody. She cut back on the phone she because. He verified your email, but there's a glitch and our system won't progress forward with the information. Spending me. Out. They have all even my social security number my password. Before they verify your email. Boy. Well you better get you better. Get some type of service on that as quickly as you can or otherwise, you're gonNA. Have a headache. With? You want pollen everybody. Jim From Euclid. Thank you for the Info to start the show. Thank you. The state of Ohio's I guess you would call it the unemployment site. Has Been Happy. If you got the email, you can text us to one zero, nine five brought to you by absolute roofing. Just wonder wondering how many people Oh, somebody Bozo just text in. He said the wine is already said he's really sorry. That's governor. The winds answer to the businesses the people that are gone broke and everything like that he goes. I'm sorry. Well If, you're personal information has been hacked on the the state of Ohio website. I'll just answer for governor. Dewine I'm sorry. Also to Jim from Euclid is still listening. Texter brings up a great point. The letter itself could be a scam. I don't think so because it's on. All. The story is on all the. News outlets in Cleveland Right now and trip. I didn't put a copy of that, but it's excuse me for one second it's it's been out by well. I saw it on channel nineteen over an hour ago so. one. Let's see channel nineteen. With the story up at one, forty, seven so little ten minutes before two o'clock. So I. Don't think the letter is a scam. Ya Go ahead God. I did post a copy of that letter to the MIC, trivisonno show facebook page if anybody wants to take a read. Kyle with the news and then back with you as we go to seven the night. Thank you trip. It's three zero, seven big win for freedom in Ohio and against the gotten. A judge Lake. County says Dr Amy. Act violated the Constitutional Rights of Health Clubs and gyms, shutting them down, and he is granted a temporary injunction blocking the Department of L. from taking any action against clubs, which violate her order that means gyms and fitness centres technically could reopen right now. The ruling paves the way for a lawsuit against the State to move forward as club owners see damages for the money lost while they were shut down every one of these lawsuits that we have filed the damages for our clients that have been been to by these unconstitutional acts by the state. they devastate life savings. They've devastated the national economy. Devastated these the entrepreneurs and their employees crispin his one of the lawyers handling the suits state of Ohio expected to appeal tomorrow over a big day for indoor dining in the Buckeye state as returns with restrictions, executive director of the Ohio licensed Beverage Association Andy Her giving businesses. Some insight on how to keep crowds under control explained to the patrons when they go in with the expectation is that they're not allowed to walk around with a drink. You can sit in your share drink, but you're not supposed to be talking to other tables. Tables and intermingling, and that's really what enforcement is going to be looking for this coming after over the weekend Patios and outdoor dining reopened in Ohio with a few social distancing issues IRV also says to avoid pesky lines. Businesses require reservation only dining a state of emergency in Michigan as Governor Gretchen. Whitmer says downtown medal could be under nine feet of water today in thousands have been ordered to evacuate due to the failure of two dams devastating. We know that this water is incredibly damaging. It has meant the evacuation of thousands. WIDMER's also. Also activated the Michigan National Guard over four inches of rain, falling in parts of Midland County this week, resulting in the dams, failing and the stay at home order for Ohio's transportation department had its good and bad sides. The good more construction work was finished to to lower traffic volumes, so dots Matt Bruning says the bad was likely drop in fuel taxes that will be used for future projects or -tising, which projects are are a must need. We can't. We can't wait. We have to do this project. And what projects are something that? That, we could afford to put off for a little while until the budget situation writes itself. Breathing also says because this winter was so mild, there were fewer panels which are created when there are a lot of freeze and thaw cycles. He says that will help future row projects as well on wall. Street the Dow currently up one point. Four percent at three, hundred, fifty one points the Nasdaq up one point, nine percent, one hundred and seventy six points, and yes, and keep my hundred up one point six percent. That's forty six points. Now. Sports Corona virus pandemic, hitting the Oakland athletics hard. The team unable to meet in April I one point, two million dollar rent payment for ringcentral coliseum where they play, the team is discussing options with the stadium authority including deferred payments in an effort to meet the rent on the home of the Indians and Cavaliers Carmen Angelov Newsradio, W., t. a. m., eleven hundred next news, coming up at the bottom of the hour or anytime on facebook or twitter at W.. T. A. M eal seven hundred eleven hundred president. Trump says he drinks a lot of water to stay healthy. Let's go to our CNN reporter on the latest news that president. Trump is drinking a lot of water. This is Harry Colon CNN has learned the drowning denser now spiking across the country. By the way this was a joke. Was it. I'M NOT Sure what see an. y'All so. You know stuck at home. I don't know. When are we supposed to open up June first? Are Building. They have not put out an official word yet. Yeah, initially was June first. That was the target date, and they roll that back. Yeah, they roll. The back were unclear as to one we can return. So let's see whenever whenever it is. We return if we ever do return. Might point of bringing it up was. that. I'm stuck at home, so we spent a lot of time on the computer. Looking at different things stuff like that. Have before we get into the hacking of the state of Ohio unemployment website. Have you noticed at all. If you browse around like you know to all the new stations websites. How many missing people there are lately! I have noticed that. There's all kinds of missing alerts for people. Yeah the Cleveland Police Department seems like every other day. They're sending us an alert or a news release regarding someone who's missing. I mean it's literally crazy, and it's not just in Cleveland, I mean. It's all throughout northeast Ohio rural areas. I don't know maybe some has a theory on that. They could text in to one zero, nine five Ravi by absolute roofing I. Why is that all of a sudden? Maybe people are on lockdown, and they're sick of being with the people that they live with, and they just say see you. and. They don't contact them for forty eight hours. I don't. Know and all ages. I think it was a if I sought rate today, a seventy two year old woman. Well. That could be a different circumstance, but we've done many stories over the years about. People who walk away from their house, who may have dementia Alzheimer's? I'm not At thirty eight thirty nine year, old westlake man now that's out of the ordinary. That's out of the ordinary. But yeah. I understand that but. it weighs their ordinary for missing people well, just being a journalist, and over the years probably nine times out of town. When we got stories like this, it was somebody who was elderly. Who may have been suffering unfortunately from Parkinson's or dementia or Alzheimer's. Not to interrupt, but I would think nine out of ten that I remember where kids. Runaways. Get you get your runaways? And there are located safely like I'm saying you got a thirty nine year old just today at thirty nine year old West Lake Man Missing. And Seventy two year old woman missing. so I don't know what information do you have on the hacking of the website? Hurry up before we take a break. The Ohio Department of job and family services, said about two dozen people had the ability to view other people's information who applied out of the pandemic unemployment assistance website people. Twenty, four two dozen people had the ability to view. Other People's information applied for that assistance they didn't say it was everybody who applied. The agency said it. was notified over the weekend by the company that developed the system Deloitte Consulting An email was sent out which Jim from Euclid read the top of the show, and that'll that e mail can also be seen on my trips Sano. Show facebook page the Ohio Department of job and family services trip says the issue was fixed within an hour and contacted those who had accidental access to system data. So. Again, this is a secondary. This is a secondary site and it involves part-time workers self employed in ten ninety nine tax filers. It's not the main site. It's a secondary site for those type of workers subcontractors part-timers. Thousands, of people it could, it could be thousand people. It could be the say how many people it doesn't say how many people it could be a million people who knows I mean I, it's a lot of people. Yes somebody just texted trip I I was a police officer for twenty five years. I took missing juvenile and missing persons reports daily. The only difference today, according to the police officer is social media. That's why you hear more of today. The? That's what the police officer texting, but it just seems like of recent. There's been a ton of 'EM. Hey I'm like you're Asana for Nissan of North Olmstead at nine, hundred ninety on to Nissan Dealerships Mike the Model and deal BELLSA. Well there on a daily basis there, the owners and They can't say no too many deals. That's why they sell and lease more Nissan's any. Nissan dealer in the State of Ohio. They've won awards for that. Their selection whether you're buying new or pre-owned over five hundred vehicles to choose from trucks, cars, sedans SUV's. Frothy information, just go their website BIG NISSAN DOT com. You can even shop on their website. Big Nissan Dot. COM Nissan Homestead. I ninety cent will be back with your phone eleven hundred. I brought this up a couple of weeks ago. And this pertains to the state of Ohio is website. Being hacked their unemployment secondary website. Whatever it is exactly. Is there an official name for? It is the pandemic unemployment assistance website. Yeah. they had people's information off the state of House, website who have filed for unemployment. I brought this up a couple of weeks ago. Okay, so this is an emergency situation. I mean I'm talking about the coronavirus. The shutting down of businesses stayed home. Act All that stuff. That, we went through okay. So, they declared an emergency situation. Whether it's from the state level the federal level whatever. Anybody committing a crime. That has to do. With the state of emergency. Like scamming people right now. through the coronavirus topic. However. It may be whether you're hacking a website or you're trying to scam older people and say by this and this do this and it's a scam. Which is illegal? You should get triple the punishment that you normally would get. In regular situations. Do you follow what I'm saying? They're preying on his own emergency situation. Going on like this and you commit a crime. That has to do with the emergency emergency situation. You get triple the punishment, so if it's two years, you get six. If it's three years. You get nine. I mean this is really going to be nightmare for a lot of people who had their identity. Basically, their identity stolen Jim from Euclid, said he, they got everything. So we'll see what comes out of this down the road, but I'm not totally blaming the state of Ohio. But there's a lot of people telling you that. Governor wine is doing a great job. Excuse me. But anyway. Interested I'm thinking. Somebody needs to be punished when caught and severely. And publicized go ahead. Deloitte Consulting. They're the ones that the Ohio Department. Of Job and family services have contract to do that. And your blame goes to od DJ S, but even obviously ahead of that the governor is the man in charge. Okay, yes, he delegates authority, but this is on his plate this his baby. And you all those people that have called them and texted in the last six weeks. Who I'm the regular unemployment site it keeps crashing. They can't get on, and then this and you got addresses bank account information social security numbers that could be in the hands of people that have nothing but illwill on their minds. This is a travesty. This is totally unacceptable. But what are we going to do all we hear we bring it up. I'm sorry. We feel your pain. Also to somebody text in rebel revisits. It's GONNA move so fast, but just left. The Beechwood Mall a lot of. I! have it right here trip go ahead. sign Jon all doors still in place since March, many still closed, even though the state opened all retailers, they can't get employees to come back because they make more on unemployment. That's essentially the gist of it. But all an import at this is house explained to me by an employer. All employer has to do is say. A, I called Carmen. Angel- back to work. He refused to come back to work. Your unemployment then immediately is terminated. By bottle I'm not under I'm not understanding that because the employer still has the power. Now they've either go back to work or they lose those benefits. You just get in contact with the unemployment folks. Okay and what's gone lawyer has to tell unemployment. Yes, yes. Eight year information just doesn't magically appear. No, yeah, the earlier back. Yeah, the employer has to tell unemployment, and then those things are cut off. Right so, what's the problem? I mean that's why I. Don't understand that type of thinking and there's a lot of people that have said that through text and privately and in different conversations even on the air. It's hard to get people to come back to work because they're making more and unemployment with the stimulus money than they would if they went to work. All you gotTA. Do is say that you brought them back to work. And they refused, and that's the end of their unemployment, or am I missing something? No, you're one hundred percent correct and allow these people. They just want to milk the system as long as they can I. Don't know if you heard Sunday but Brian called back the guy who called the previous week instead he's making more unemployment and he's spruced. Spruced up his house. He's done a ton of shopping and he's not going back to work and I said well. If you don't go back to work, they will call your employer or the employer will call unemployment and give them that word that you're not coming back and he said well. That's all right I. Will You lose everything? He goes well then I'll make a claim to Osha that my workplace was unsafe. I'm lying I'm dying. I said Okay but. What if I said for years to the greatest scam artist Americans are the greatest scam artists on the planet earth. In, you're going to see it with unemployment. And it's happening now. And the other thing I said over a month ago. There are a lot of people enjoying this corona virus situation staying home getting paid. There's a lot of people enjoying it. Somebody texts in a two one, zero, nine, five brought to you by absolute roofing. How can the employer contact of state knowing picks the phone? He'll right. That's a good point. That's a great point. So maybe I I gave fake news or we both. Can I quote genius sure? The Cure is going to be worse than the disease. Donald J trump. and. Here's some more of it coming. And if they sent out stimulus checks again. Then, we might as well open our borders and get illegals here because they're going to be the only ones I wanted to work. You have a point. Gap. So You for years, not all. Not all, but some Americans are the greatest scam artists in the world. And the State of Ohio unemployment system has been hacked. will. It could have been done from somebody outside the country right absolutely. Yeah I buy. I two suspects would be Russia or China. My I suspect would-be a genius within the United States of America in his parent's basement. Good chance that could be the case as well. Yeah Wow. I don't know it's it's. Again I don't WanNa keep patting myself on the back, but I told you what is the come out of this? Over the next five six eight ten months. You're not even going to believe. It's going to continue. To get worse and worse and worse before it gets better whether it's unemployment whether it's scams with no matter what it is, it's just GonNa continue because there are a segment of the population. That's GONNA. Take every bit of advantage of this situation. Whether. It's not going back to work claiming on employment laying on their ass, abuse people have loved that. That's like Paradise for people. You've never met anybody like that. I've talked to a Bozo the last two Sundays. Just like? The resilience people like that. Hey make your Saana for. AAA advanced plumbing and drain whenever plumbing problems strike AAA advance, plumbing and drain is therefore. You're twenty four hours a day seven days a week. It's. Because what if something happens in the middle of the night you call. AAA advanced plumbing and drain. The answer the phone. What's the number very simple for four? Oh, three, three, one, fifty, five, fifty, five, three, three, one, fifty, five, fifty, five, or go to their website. Fans plummer DOT COM. Write that number down I. don't care how water tank main sanitary toilets faucets broken pipes waterproofing. You need AAA advanced plumbing and drain is therefore you let me give you the number one more time, `fore, four, zero, three, three, one, fifty, five, fifty, five set that we have any phone calls. Couple my God! Towel or get to them right after Kyle does the news. It's three thirty four lake county judge Eugene, Lucia has issued a preliminary injunction blocking enforcement of health department. Orders, shutting down gyms and fitness centers. The ruling came this morning in a lawsuit filed by a Rock House fitness against Dr Amy in, and now possibly opens two doors, one two gyms immediately, the other two further pursuit of damages lawsuits against the states. The state is expected to. To appeal. Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer says about ten thousand people were able to safely evacuate midland, following the breach of the Eddyville damn heavy rains fell over the mid Michigan Tuesday night, causing flooding and massive damage Republicans on the Senate homeland. Security Committee of authorized subpoena related to the controversial investigation of Hundred Biden Burris my Ukrainian gas company. A subpoena is for a blue star stick. A consulting firm, the ties tube burris mom. And after their website crashed Tuesday due to heavy traffic, the Cleveland Much Park Zoo announcing its crews zoo option is backed up and taking more bookings at allows post, take in bears, giraffes and elephants via their cars. Your three news forecast from Mr Hero Roman Burger Weather Center. Here's Holly No, the the rest of the afternoon, a mix of clouds, sunshine, and we are in the sixties, fifties tonight partly cloudy skies to start. Tomorrow Late Day rain chances in the seventies. This report is brought to you by what ex CLIVEN DOT com. Major backup on four eighty west Rabea seventy seven. Yes A. MOTT's just came in here. Apparently, there was a police chase which ended in a crash. Just south of seventy seven, according to Mott's. Or West of seventy seven. Excuse me the tech. The texters said a police car get a red, and then it stopped. yeah, the police car from what Motte says was involved. Obviously I'm looking out the window and four eighty headed west is at a complete standstill. Traffic on the EASTBOUND side is very very slow as we speak so. We don't in other words the valley view. Bridge is guess. Rate at that's where it happened right around there. Just just west of seventy seven. It's apparently close. That's no valley. That's the valley view bridge. Yeah, it's very close to us. Without a doubt, yeah and things are slow. Both directions stopped headed westbound and very slow headed eastbound. So major backup on four eighty west right around starting just pass transportation. If you're headed boulevard, if you're headed west by seventy, seven and four, eighty or the value bridge. They're doing all that construction there if anybody wants to text in its in that. Our mass of required dry shot up. If. Anybody wants to text in to one zero nine five. If you're in that backup on four eighty west. Texas to one zero nine five. Am like Jerusalem for Ryan Young. Ryan at a young team Williams greater metropolitan now if you're selling a house. Who would you call on me? You'd call Ryan Young. That's who you'd go. Ryan youngest top dollar and sells houses very quickly in his marketing system is so aggressive. sometimes the house goes. is sold before it even goes up on the market. Officially. Because he has buyers lined up in markets, waiting for houses that come available in certain areas, certain price range. Call, Ryan Young. And let's say you don't WanNa go through all the open houses and all that he'll give you an instant cash offer for your home. People are saying it's a bad time. No, it's not a interest. Rates are low. It's not a bad time to sell a home call. Ryan, Young, now two, one, six, three, seven, eight, ninety six. To one, six, three, seven, eight, nine, thousand, six, hundred, eighteen, or go to his website, the young team dot Com Ryan Young. House condo. Don't matter. They'll sell it for you. WHO's I today? Actually GM online before we hole on before we go to Jim Somebody text in the cars in the backup, our practice and social distancing. They're staying six feet apart. There you have it. Well, somebody texts data and probably can concur. He is actually in that area right now, Jim, you're on trip. Hey, thanks for taking my call. I'm going. He's found right now and four eighty. D Westbound Lane has two lanes open the pendants. A police car guy involved with another crash and you also have a crash east of that. Going, east, on forty, with. Crash taken guardrail and everything so here's a mass. It's a mess. Get that word. there. Dow is traffic I if traffic westbound moving on for eighty. Yeah very very slow. You have the two left. Lanes are open. But the other the other lanes are completely closed because they got. trucked the plans the police. Vehicles the Front End Malaysia. ditches said bad. The Governor says. Take you back, think thank thanks full and thanks for the phone call. It was one of the things I want to bring up today because every morning. I take a ride. Keep. Have Seen. because if I have to sit in the house, you know. Closed now things are starting to open up. It's getting a little different, but still have gotten in a routine where every morning I take. So amount to seventy. One I'm on four eighty. I go see my son and strong so. Every morning. Okay. Every. I let me not exaggerate. So Agmon doing this for two and a half months. So. Forty five days. Thirty. Five of those forty five days. Somebody, on either to seventy one. Four eighty. Or seventy one knows of the three routes that take to get too strong so from the east side here. Passes me. Doing one hundred miles an hour. Now. I'm doing seventy. I usually set my cruise control sixty eight sixty nine miles an hour. Okay Yeah technically I'm speeding eight miles an hour. Yeah, whatever? So you could forget the texts, but that's I. Set my cruise control at about sixty eight sixty nine miles an hour. And I turn the radio and I just listened to the radio as it's about a half hour. Drive from listeners too strong so for me those three routes. Thirty five of the forty five days roughly estimating, but it's. That's seventy five eighty percent of the time. Somebody goes by me. Doing a hundred miles an hour, I didn't say eighty. I didn't say eighty-five. This guy one day not that long ago about a week ago, went by me. If I would have changed lanes, he did not me from here. To say in Sqi. While, I probably wouldn't be talking to you. The if this guy wasn't doing one hundred twenty, he wasn't doing, too. I have never. In my life and I have moaned about driving periodically about drivers in the way, people drive I'm this show periodically over the years? I have never seen anything like right now. Don't ask me why. I was talking with a friend of mine about that. He says it's drugs alcohol. People that have been out all night. 'cause it's usually like nine o'clock nine thirty in the morning when I'm driving. The night. People are coming home. All left up. That that's history. I don't know what it is, but I mean. I know if there's anybody out, there agrees with me or You could taxed or call. It is the driving on the freeways literally nuts. And it's not only the freeway it's. I mean every it seems like. And this is when nothing was open. It seems like everybody's in a hurry to get somewhere and I'm scratching my head. I'm going. Why would anybody be in a hurry? No one's working and nothing's open. And everybody's going on, not everybody, but a lot of people driving. It is unbelievable. How fast they're going I mean you could tell when somebody's doing ninety one hundred over one hundred miles an hour. You're doing seventy and they literally go by you like you're standing still and your car shakes. I mean it's unbelievable. I spend more time looking in my mirrors now than I. DO looking straight ahead. which is not a good way to drive. Because, if you were to like. This, you could look in your Mir. What are your side mirrors? And the person. It looks you could get over to the right or over to the left. Whichever way you're moving on a freeway, you WANNA change the lane. But if this? Crazy bastards come one hundred miles an hour. It looks clear, but it isn't clear because of how fast they pioneer. It's crazy how people are driving today? I've never seen anybody drive this fast. And I I'm sitting there with a couple of friends the other day when we brought it up, we're talking, you know we all had a theory, but. I think people are going crazy. I really do because I've never seen the driving and everybody is in a hurry. Changing lanes weaving in and out of traffic. It's. It's like an adventure driving today. I can only imagine re truckers, truckers listening which you got to have a daily basis if I see this with my little half hour drive every morning. And you're in. The truck may for eight ten twelve hours a day. What do you see? Because it's. It's a little bit spooky it. It really is hey. Amateur Asano. For more tash financial retirement wealth planning David's been doing this. For over twenty years now. Tana credibility. What more tash? Stock market goes up with these annuities fixed indexed the notice you make money stock Marco's down. You don't lose any money. It's that simple and the annuities avoid probate down the road to. Another benefit. Call More tosh now. This is a great way. Just listen to what he has to save. You like what you hear, you make an appointment. If you don't. You wasted two minutes. Eight seven seven gains for you, the number four to the letter U. Eight seven seven gains for you or go to more tash financial dot com. We'll eleven hundred president. Trump says he drinks a lot of water to stay healthy. Let's go to our CNN reporter on the latest news that President Trump is drinking a lot of water. This is Harry Colon. CNN has learned that drowning denser are now spiking across the country. By the way, this was a joke. Somebody text in Trivia an uber driver and no doubt. Over on her miles an hour, than ever I think it's built up frustration. The reason people are going crazy like this. On the roads, Sonya drivers says swear to got. He's not lying. Swear to God. That's what do you drivers studied Uber Drivers said swear to Gut. Had A place that. A lot of people saying the reason people are speeding like this is because they've heard on the news that the cops are not pulling people over as much anymore. I I see a lot of cops out. Yes, state patrolman on four eighty and their. Gas three times in the last seven days I've seen someone pulled over. WHO's next? We'll trip before I go to the phone line it. Can take just ten seconds quickly to applaud my son Colin, his entrance into manhood. has begun. He's actually with his grandfather, working on one of the properties that his grandfather owns in the the greater Cleveland area, so callen good work, keep working hard, Papa, thank you for instilling some work ethic in the him so trip. Today's my son's first day of laborious work, and that's a good thing. That's a good thing, not only that not only that hard work. You got that right? I tip my hat in my little guy. Thank you so much. Who is next? That is Ryan. That's for sure because you never did a day's work in your life, and you're in the Air Ryan. Hey guys torn on. Not what's on your mind. Hey I was calling. Regarding this website thing was hacking actually got a hold of my state REP's office today. I got the email and if I recall it, said this happened on May Fifteenth, I think they're aware of it. Person I talked to. My state. Rep's office had no idea about. nobody contacted them, let them know this is going on, so they could talk to constituents across the state which I kind of found out. While it's been and every news website locally that I saw so I don't know how the state didn't know about it. Well, no, no. The state knew about it last week, but they didn't know any of the. State representatives or state senators like the lady I talked to you in my state representatives office. She had no idea what talking about. I misunderstood I thought you said the state didn't know about it. no I'm sorry. Well I mean do they have an obligation to tell the state reps I mean I mean down the road eventually. I mean the their obligation right. Now I would think their time. Is really taken up by curing this problem of the hacking of the unemployment site? I know they're doing that by. You. Know worrying about kids to in bubblegum planning a baseball game, you know. How do that spits sunflower seeds. You know the another. Stuff! Thank you for the phone call. You can't have people chewing gum and spitting. You just can't do that anymore. Gum. Probably will be banned. Fact you would have any. I don't know how true this is, but you go to like any amusement park or anything like that like Cedar, point or Disney, world or Disneyland. They don't sell gum their. People throw it on the concrete bear to get up. They throw it on the ground. They spit they it under tables. Whatever you know. Why do people stick their gum under tables? Too Lazy to get up. Yeah, but you could ask for paper Napkin or up or Or you got put it in an ashtray or some something. You could re I mean they're lazy I don't think I've ever I've I've I've had gum? And then it's time to eat and I go. Oh, my God I got the Gum I forgot. And I asked her a little paper Napkin or something or put it in the Ashtray I've never stuck my gum under a restaurant table. Mimi, that's just laziness. I mean. How hard is it the ask somebody? Hey, ask a server. Can I have an extra napkin her? Literally had the option of getting rid of IT I had to get rid of my gum. I. Think of under a table. I would throw it on the floor. No I would probably just swallow it. If I don't know if I will do that. It could come up certain areas. Piece of Gumbo I don't know if you could I. Don't know if you die, but certain areas get get sticky, yeah! I mean that's probably what I would do. I'M NOT GONNA. Stick it anywhere. I mean who hasn't swallowed gum in their life. Sometimes you swallow it accidentally. Do you ever have gone? You start to Yeller you've talked to talk, or you get real dramatic. What your voice like this and all of a sudden next year? And the gun goes down your throat on the. She ever done that I, have not. Everybody has I truly I haven't unfortunately I did that with your tobacco once that's horrible. Yes, it was the end result was not nice. See now I'm all for civil liberties and our rights and everything. But I think people chew. Tobacco should be banned from the public. Now that is unconstitutional. I totally agree that is unconstitutional I don't chew our sitting next to somebody. That got a water bottle. and was chewing tobacco, spitting it in the water bottle, and then they put the water bottle next to you see that's why you need. Names, you watch people do the show here and spit into a cup, yes. Just Styrofoam Cup. You can't see. I mean not that it's me doing it, but you can't see that. Getting into a bottle. Bottles clear yeah. That's disgusting. They did a poll I. Don't know if you saw this. Gallup did it, so it's pretty credible poll. Eighty four percent of people that chew tobacco. Do not wear underwear. I saw that poll. From Gallup it's. It's credible eighty four percent. A trip. I don't even know why I'm bringing this up. But very briefly here. A texter SORTA. Got My mind going in this direction. Because he said something, I can't read text than something. I can't read two to one zero, nine five you by absolute roofing. But have you ever seen a woman? Chew Tobacco. Yes, I I, don't think I. Ever have one time. I'll never forget it. It was at the nineteen eighty five State High School Hockey Championship at Brooklyn Ice Arena and she wasn't a woman. She was a high school girl and she had a dip in. It was I. Don't know I'm a dipper dipper then, but seeing that was a total turn off I. Don't know why some. Somebody just text in Yeah trivial at the gum people. Somebody else text. You can always stick to gum on the back of your hand. You can do that someone else text in trip. Don't rip people that you tobacco. It's my only vice. I'm not saying you're bad. People just don't WanNa. Look at it. If somebody's dipping, it's respectable. The have a styrofoam copper, a Solo Cup so spinning in the empty water bottle. Yeah, I! I would never do that. Spitting into a cup around other people. To begin with but I. Always had my hand on the front of the cup, so you can't see me. Spitting and I've only chewed once when I was here. Imagine spitting into a cop. What other people around that horrible? Horrible? Yeah, it is, it's disgusting. TO NASTY HABIT It. Yeah, I! It is one of the more disgusting habits I'm not GonNa Rip Anybody for. Why did my my backsides of Disgusting Habit? You guys? That, you have to do that fitting into a cop. What other people around is S- cussing as my granddaughter say. Literally Gusting. Sign up for trips restaurant in strong Phil. Hey tomorrow. I can say open for Launch Open for dinner right now. The patio is open tonight. If you WANNA get to trips, restaurants strong, Ville great food. You never know they might even have entertainment in the lounge. They are practicing social distancing. You stay out after tables. So it's It's they are practicing social distancing. But tomorrow the restaurants will be opened edit kluge trips restaurant in strong smell for lunch and dinner on route eighty two across the Southpark Mall. I'll see trips tomorrow. Here's Kyle with the news. Thank you trip. It's four zero three Ohio gyms won't be punished if they open before may twenty six they lake county judge ruled in favor of fitness facilities today in response to a lawsuit filed against Ohio, state health writer Amy Acton and the Lake County General Health district, an important win for against the shutdown or is broadly They've been haphazard. They've been unequally applied, and they've been entirely too broad perspective. He's one of the lawyers handling the suits. The lawsuit alleged act in exceeded her authority by closing gyms and fitness centers safer at home order. Order Judge jean-louis chief says decision and protects fundamental constitutional rights. Since the lawsuit claims, the gems won't survive the government shutdown. The state of Ohio is expected to appeal some personal information of Ohio. Unemployment applicants was made visible due to a data issue that had been corrected today, according to the state, the Ohio Department of job and family services, says the company in charge of administering the pandemic unemployment assistance programs hold the State about twenty four people were able to view correspondence between other claimants. He company Deloitte says they were able to fix the issue within an hour. The House of Representatives passing Aisha's law today it adds more ways for police and prosecutors to bring charges of domestic violence. It's named for Asia Fraser. The beloved Shaker Heights teacher whose ex husband former judge. Lance, Mason stabbed her to death right in front of their children after Mason, at serve time in prison for attacking Fraser, Mason, who is also a former state lawmaker, is now serving thirty five to life. The bill creates a new crime. Domestic violence aggravated murder. I'm Tom More W. T. A.. M. News Cleveland Police say a dive team found a body near the old. River Yacht Club today around. Around one o'clock in the afternoon there were reports of a man fifty year old, Alexander Febres, who have been last seen at the club Friday and it missing ever since the person found has been identified as the fifty year old, and a cause of death is pending and thousands of Michigan residents evacuated as water, rushing to failed dams, had parts of Midland and the central part of the State Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer says the waters expected to keep rising until sometime this evening we are anticipating the height between around eight o'clock tonight, and so we do know that the water is continuing to rise. Days of torrential rain reportedly triggered the damage Governor Whitman also bringing in the National Guard for instance on Wall Street the Dow, currently up one point five percent at three hundred sixty nine points the Nasdaq up two percent, that's one hundred and ninety points, and the S&P five hundred up one point six percent. That is forty eight points. ATM Sports Corona. Pandemic hitting the Oakland Athletics hard the team unable to meet in April I. One point two million dollar rent payment for ringcentral coliseum where they play. The team is discussing options with the stadium authority, including deferred payments in an effort to meet the rent on the home of the Indians and cavaliers. Carmen Angelo newsradio. Am Eleven hundred you get traffic and weather together mornings and afternoons Levin Hundred President. Trump says he drinks a lot of water to stay healthy. Let's go to our CNN reporter on the latest news that President Trump is drinking a lot of water this Harry. Colon CNN has learned that drowning dads are now spiking across the country. By the way, this was a joke. You have some news. Yes the state Senate within the past half hour has rejected that amendment. The Senate bill one trip that would have limited the authority of Allow Department of Health Director Dr Amy Acting. was rejected by thirty two to nothing vote that amendment proposed limiting. Act And after April, twenty nine to last, no more than fourteen days and may six. The House passed that amendment with fifty eight to twenty seven vote, so while the House passed it the Senate today rejected it, and as you recall, governor, Mike Dewine after the House passed, that said that he would be told that amendment, but it didn't pass the Senate today thirty two to nothing. Thirty two to nothing. Why do you think that is? Now that? I don't know the I don't know the make-up of obviously that's. Thirty two democrats. We meet thirty two well. You said why. I don't know that I don't know of makeup of the state Senate. But it was thirty two to nothing boat. Where the house past fifty-eight to twenty-seven, it'd be Republicans voting against the okay. To right yeah. I'll tell you regardless. It just goes on and on well how many states senators either? There are many innocent. I think. I think there may be I. GotTa Look Rob Wall. Gate told us that yesterday. Find that out? Now. That's I. Don't worry about it. We listen to this I was just reading this. This is unbelievable because you know banquet halls I go to you know over the years, a lot of parties lot of weddings lot of graduation parties like at at Lavera. party center. I'd been there a bazillion times There's also a party center in Menor called La- MAFA okay. I think most people side are familiar with the party center. LA- Mafia in manner. They are transforming. Their banquet hall. Into a public restaurant. Because of the lack of business, these party centers basically. go out of business. and La Mafia in manner. Is going from weddings and banquets and stuff like that different parties to a public restaurant. It's. Believable. You GotTa do what you have to do to survive game. You WanNa talk about it crime. That the governor and doctoring the act and have done a certain businesses. I mean it's literally a frigging crime. And not only should the gyms sue? The buyer owners should sue the restaurant owners. The bank would hollowness. They should all be suing this government. In the state of Ohio. I mean La. MAFA party said are turning into a public restaurant now. There's anything wrong with that. But I'm saying that the government has forced them to do that. Yeah, the fact, they have been a bazillion weddings and and different parties at Loma for over the years and mentor. They're now. Going to be up public restaurant. Trip I'm convinced again and I'm not. There are thirty three Ohio senators twenty four Republicans Nine Democrats. Is that what we're talking about Yup. Within House, Democratic well now thirty thirty two nothing boats, a one apparently abstained. But! You said it was democratic possibly. Strike that let's forget. And, what would you say the make up was. Twenty Four. Twenty four to two nine. Yeah, twenty four Republicans Nine Democrats. and. I don't WanNa. Get hooked on this rainy. Day Fund trip. Hold on, hold on. Hold on. Hold on. Buyers in restaurants already have filed a class action lawsuit. have. They add that I missed that. says. That says it was filed today. Let me look that up. But I'm telling you. And I don I. Don't mean to bring up this on a weekly basis, but there's two point seven billion dollars in that rainy day. Fund and you know I wouldn't be so sure that he's not sitting on it for things such as this trip. Well. That's what he said. We've already went over this now. That's exactly what he said. He's GonNa. Use some of that money to fight these suits in my opinion. That's what he said. He said they asked him about the Rainy Day Fund one of the media people. and. This was a couple of weeks ago. We already talked about this. CT Carmen. And he said there. It's like a storm Okay and the storm is still going on. He said I want to have that in reserve because the storm is not over. So you have to have a little common sense, and read in the what he said there these sitting out for instances. For any suits that are coming his way. So you've answered your own question. Trying to find out about this lawsuit that may have been filed. The class action suit on behalf of bars and restaurants. WHO's next? Vince. Vince you're near. Travel! Allies. Good. So I find it amazing that. The governor can find all kinds of money. To finance the covert conscious at work. Around and make sure that you are. Talking each other at a table with a bunch of our family and friends, and so on and so forth. And yet again, muster up the funds in the capability. To keep the Ohio website something for people that are trying to file an employment trying to get released kind of help themselves through this i. just that's that's the first thing that blows my mind. Second thing listen yesterday waiting to talk to you. You said something about somebody talking about the revolt and protesting all that. and. You were saying that you know, and it's not you. You can't do that. Every your brother. I think it was twenty four twenty five years ago. Was One of the committee members of the save our browns. and. Voices like yours May. Other Cleveland personalities were heavily utilized. Help us. Crash. Thurbers, the phone line, fax machines and everything else the politicians, the NFL owners all. To get a movement started, and that's what we need. Now we need to organize. We need to get people together. You're right, man. You said it hit it right on the nose house your house. Your revolt on one hundred people show up at a rally big deal and It's got to be done. Somebody's gotTA. Somebody's gotTA. Take hold and organize it. Get it going because. They're running. US rate into the ground the way that they're moving right now. This looks like nineteen thirty. Yeah I understand completely you make a lot of great points and thank you for the phone gotta get to traffic, but thank you for the phone call. The problem is when the browns left. Everybody was on one side. They wanted the browns back. It wasn't fifty people wanted the browns back. Fifty percent of the people said no get rid of them. that's what you have with the shutdown now. You at fifty percent of the people going, you can't do this and the other fifty percent percents gone. This is tremendous. This shutdown. That's why it's hard to organize the way. It was with the Cleveland Browns. Completely I understand your point. But two completely different situations. here's a Livio attract seven hundred. Right! Our full numbers are two one, six, five seven hundred eleven, hundred to one, six, five, seven, eight, one, one one one. or You can text us at two one, zero, nine, five brought to by absolute roofing. WHO's next Carmen Actually Billy Morris joins us on the hotline trip. Moore's from the band sunset strip that Billy Morris. Morris that's who it is. The smoke and rock and roll of food trucks a liberal. A. Before you get started I. Don't know what it is. You want to ask but I want to ask you a question before you get started. How is Howard the food trucks doing? How is that with all this going on? Well you know. We usually are driving around the city and parking in various places and doing various festivals or business lunches or city events, and obviously that all came to a stop, so I decided to open up our truck, outset of our our shop or headquarters in Bay village, and it has been very good. The the neighborhood responded and not only do i. get the village and the rocket repeat come in, but I got people driving from the east side for barbecue. It's really taken off for me, so it's been a good thing on the same note. The price of beef has skyrocketed. You know we we. We normally at about three fifty, a pound for beef brisket. Shot up the five fifty, the opponent and then this week at six fifty pounds so. It's kind of tough, but we're doing it. And we WANNA, thank everybody for making us successful, and we have ice cream now as well so we have a barbecue and ice cream and shaved ice for the kids were open Tuesday through. Saturday, today are wing Wednesday, so we have the best smoked wings in town I got people lined up six feet apart of course for chicken wings. Tomorrow's. The there's. There's no meat shortage. There's just the price increase On needs. There's. There's worker. There's process processing plant problems. They got no one to process this week. So that's why it's going away. So you know it's GonNa come back someday, but for right now. Beef brisket is completely. Out of the planet, now also think about it when I buy a brisket I, gotta cut half the fat away and then I slow. Cook it for twelve hours. The rest of the fat and everything else turns into juice. So it's it's. That's why when you go to a restaurant, you know twenty dollars a pound for beef brisket, twenty five dollars a pound downtown for be person. It's crazy. Yeah. Water. Water Yes, yes? All I need need to do is gain more weight. WHAT'S ON YOUR MIND BELLY? So you know we got the coach for kids, benefit and a couple of weeks, right? Right. It. May Twenty ninth and May thirty at the S, but. Postponed Yeah Yeah, but you know I was thinking. Let's do. Let's do it virtual. Let's just let's just set the band up. And let people tune in and watch the band and. Try It that way. I think people are doing virtual shows now. I think we can do that. Benefit that coats for kids benefit virtual now. then. Ain't a bad idea like a paid per view, virtual show Megan real and they're. One hundred per. One hundred percent of goats, our kids, yeah, and also think about it it. Would you know we always sell out so there's always people that don't ever get to see the show. Now we could price it. We could lower the price and everybody could see it and a lot of a lot of our people could see it. That aren't even Cleveland and we could have maybe Billy Fisher zoom some sort of zoom concerts I. Don't know I'm just thinking sunsets up for it. I think it would be edited virtual coach for kids, benefit, and and still do a great. Job for the cost. You know what I'd have to do it after get older, Jill Thompson from MPI our sound guy in. Video got that. If, he could put that all together for. Now I'm getting excited. We haven't played out in two months. Let's make this happen. That'd be fun. That was like. Let me let me get a hold of Joe and we'll we'll we'll. We'll see if we put something together. As far as a virtual concert goes, but very quickly I want to ask you this question so. I would say you probably played on an average Billy Morrison sunset, strip three or four nights a week before all this happened it right. Yeah Yeah Week. Three or four nights a week in the summertime we would go fourteen days in a row and sometimes double shows on the weekend summertime. and it went two zero in one press conference. So. How bad are you missing the live part of the entertainment? Because I know it's an adrenaline rush. How bad are you guys missing that you and pollen everybody? Well. It's it's kind of a both side of the fence. It's like yeah I. Do Miss It. It's been my life. I've been playing out live since I was fourteen years old. But you know about the fresh air to be able to not have to load those speakers every Friday and Saturday and you know be able to be on the couch at my little boys, but I'm a lifelong musician some looking forward to getting back. It's been a nice little break, but at the same time I'm a lifer, and that's what I do and I I have no, no doubt that we're going to get back to plan and entertaining. Now how about the entertainers who were doing that? To make a living You have another business, but and and I'm GonNa Knock Billy. I'm just asking question. How about the guys that we're? We're doing it solely for live and how they getting along. Yeah, that's like the Drummer Ray Brown. You Know He. He does music full-time now. He also does music lessons full-time and that you can't get in a small room with anybody to do that, so he's hurting Paul Lewis our bass player. He's hurting. Now Guitar Player Rob's Today. He actually works at a company that builds parts for spaceships, so he was essential, so he still ten. But he's. He's really looking forward to get back on the stage, but you know for me I just. I just took a turn and I get these trucks opened up I told my girl Leah who her company went from very successful, successful, two zero and one press conference liquid lifestyles. She has a swimming company I've told her Leah. Don't you worry about a thing? I'm going to survive I. Always do I'm a cockroach I always survive. She's that funny. Then she put it on facebook in. My mom got all upset Oh. They're calling you. A cockroach I'm like Mama Cockroach I always survive I. Make It happen, so so I do. All right, so Billie Mars is saying. Let's do the coach. Kids benefit, but we'll. You couldn't do it next weekend, but we could probably do it in a couple of weeks or so. We at Joe Thompson. If I'm support from NPR is sound, visual and sound. We get him aboard. Maybe we could do this thing I don't know you'd think it would be. I think so I think that. All the people that never got to see a great show that we put together at the Hilton Garden and what we do and everybody will want to help out coast for kids. anyways it will make it affordable and includes everybody not even not only in Cleveland worldwide. Do it well. Yeah, okay I. I'll get back. T I appreciate the idea. Thank you right now, though AAC before we let you go billy before. Let you go right now Carmen and set. They're giving you the finger. I know they ask. Trade it a lot of work for those two. Guys No, it's all good brother. Absolutely benefit the kids one hundred twenty. That's what it's all about. Billy Morrison. Good talking guys. Let me know sunset strip. Got It you got it got it. Great thank you great idea there by by billy Moore's Yeah, and he could do it right from. He's got a studio at headquarters with smoking, rock and roll, so he can do it right from there. Now Joe Thompson has a studio Oh. Yeah, Joe! Yeah Joe Facilities Well -absolutely. We'd have a figure what platform to put it on. FACEBOOK or facebook would be the best bet. Many of these new allow those counter on. Joe Thomson as column during the News at the. Ask them these questions. I will do that. And then see if he wants to come on the air with us. Virtual benefit. What do you think? Just through cell out the window. Some logistics would have to be worked. Out especially for people donating. Maybe set up a pay pal account I have no clue, but that would be something that billy would pay per view. Charge like twenty twenty five dollars. Yeah, it goes the coaster, kids. We'd have. How would that be transferred to obey? Maybe a pay pal account. That's what I'm saying. Joe Thomson. That's what he does for a living. Okay if he's got the the software to collect funds up absolutely good. Did you talk to them yet? You said during the news break, so that's what I will do that. Tell Carmen the shut up, so we can go news. With the news. Thank you guys. It's four thirty-four. Ohio gems won't be punished if they open before. May Twenty six they lake county judge ruled in favor of fitness facilities today in response to a lawsuit filed against Ohio State Health Director Dr Amy Acted in the Lake County General Health district. The suit alleged Actinic Senator Authority by closing gyms fitness centers in her safer. At a home order. Some Personal Info of Ohio unemployment applicants was made visible. Do tway data issue that has been corrected by today according to the states, the Ohio Department of job and family services, says the company in charge of administering the pandemic unemployment assistance program told the State that about twenty four people were able to view correspondence between other claimants. The state says there's no evidence of widespread data compromise, more proof, Kobe one, thousand, nine, hundred, the US hard, according to the society, for human, resource management and Oxford Economics, an estimated one point three trillion. Trillion dollars in wages has been lost by US workers during the coronavirus pandemic for the first time since March, all fifty states are now partially reopened Alaska though making the biggest news they say on Friday they will reopen everything statewide equal before Kobe nineteen. Your threes forecast for universal windows direct weather. Center Years Holly Sorrento for the rest of your Wednesday afternoon partly to mostly cloudy skies in the sixties fifties tonight, some Sun to start tomorrow late day shower chances in the seventies. This report is brought to you by ways eleven hundred. All right. Phone numbers era, two one six somebody. Five seven hundred eleven hundred somebody texted said if you do that virtual video, Fur, coats or kids. That Billy Morris was talking about it. you call it. The fat boys show. What trips southern Carmen. I'm I'm done with that down to absolutely. But see we need to talk with Joe Thomson from MCI to talk to him. I did. Okay. To get into the specifics on the air. Yes! They are more than willing to donate their studios for us. And it can absolutely be done as a pay per view event. Online and they're more than happy to to to work out everything with. Really yes. Boy that was easy. Yeah, all right it's! It's that easy descended fat easy. There's a certain. Platform that we would use thinking twelve livestream or something like that you actually you'd have to donate so much to get. Your tickets so to speak to watch the the event. And you just tell people what the site is and they go to. Work I would get that link from Joe and then I would post it on all your platforms and coats for kids would have it. They could post it on their platforms as well. We'll have to work all of logistics like that, but yeah, it would be that easy for him to. The band would come to the studio. You donate a studio, time and everything else. And We can get this ball rolling. It's unbelievable fast. The ball rolled because during that news break. You know who tax me. I am I'm guessing one or the other entertainers? Well, I'll get to that, but no but. Because we have well. Let me start there we have. Probably going to have limited people in Sunset Strip Billy Morrison sunset. There's only four of them. So, we'd have to watch nominee people we had you follow what I'm saying. Yeah, we definitely have to. You're not gonNA have. Thirty people, there. Yeah, they have to call Pete from the band's pizza poll and tell them you know. The ban chance alone is ten people alone right wouldn't do that. You know what I mean. so I. I don't know. Sit and talk about entertainers, but you know Charles Guile I'm sure would want to be part of it. Frank Wurley Elvis. Would definitely probably WANNA be part of it so I mean you got Charles Guy on? You Got Elvis Frank Wurley. You got sunset. Well. I shouldn't speak for Charles, Guy and frank. I haven't talked to him yet. So We're going to have to wait and see on that, but anyway. During the news break. You know what kind of mind Goldman has right. So he texts me. And? He said the tax was like as long as the from my knee to my ankle. On my phone Tom Clancy Dangle Yeah Yeah. So. He said what everything going on. He says I just heard Billy Morris call you want to do a virtual show. On the Internet pay per view for coats for kids. In We'd make it very affordable like twenty five dollars something like that. But he says I got a name for. The show. All right. Would you like to take a guess? He's too smart. You want Mushek take a guess I'm not even going to embarrass myself. You, said the trip f show for coach kids. That makes perfect. Now. You know what you stand for. Go ahead. For us for us? We'll see. What you said that, and then you explain the four US Gomez crazy smart. It's. Getting outsmart. He's crazy. smarts he is. He's a member of Mensa ebbing. If he hasn't taken the test, heating certainly qualified. That dude is flat out brilliant. So we could call it the. F. You show for coats for kids for us is what F stands for? But it's got a couple messages because these times today. Okay, yes. And the money will go to culture. Kids Joe Thompson from. MPI said he can get it done right and we could use his studio. Donate a studio. So we basically, you could send one hundred percent to coach her kids. Yeah Absolutely. And like Billy Moore said maybe even somebody like. Charles Guile there in Frank Wurley Elvis there, but we could even do some kind of zoom or something maybe. Would Billy Fisher from Vegas. And have him make a cameo appearance. Yeah, that'd be something that Joe would have to work out. What Billy? But you know I I've heard that term my whole entire life cameo appearance. What does that mean a short appearance? We'll billy Fisher short. I guess it makes sense. Yes. He's vertically challenged. He's not look. Let's the ground so he's not short. If, we do it on the Internet. We gotta have seth. They're going next slide. Yup for that stuff actually. At saying I'm sorry. meaning. Next Entertainer, yes! Next slide neck saw the next slide and play another song. You know this is something. That's probably doable. And after talking with Billy Morrison, the ban sunset strip. These entertainers probably are going half nuts, and they would love to get out and do something like this. Even though it's a virtual concert could be therapeutic for them absolutely. But if Joe Thompson is doing what MP I know, it's going to be first class all without a doubt. So you'd be able to watch it on your computer. Your phone or or anything like that right yet got a smartphone. Your computer tablet absolutely. Hey? Our full numbers are two one six five seven hundred eleven hundred. Let's get off the coats for kids. Benefit will start fire island away in my memory bank. I'll talk to some of the entertainers and Joe Thompson, and we'll see Jordan Wanna come on the air. I know know you go Joe Okay all right, okay? Let's go to traffic then we'll take your phone call eleven hundred. I mean Billy Morris has gone my whole mind rolling now I mean how many people in your estimate do you think we get to watch this thing at say at twenty five dollars, and that twenty five dollars goes to closer kits well, certainly with the right amount of on air promotion during the show I'd say several thousand, maybe five thousand. Now. Yeah You don't we could do to. Anybody! That buys the the twenty dollar pay per view package to watch the concert at the end. we have a message. We have everybody message their phone number. We put all the phone numbers into a box and we pick one at the end of the night and we can give them that eight thousand dollar restaurant package that we have locked up in the safe the great idea. That's. Dollars in restaurant gift cards. Because the benefit was supposed to be next weekend at the Hilton. Garden Inn and twins Berg. We can't do it. Because you can't gather. Three hundred people at one time so if we do the virtual one from Joe thompsons place. At the end of the night, we just pick a phone number of the say there's. Eight hundred people that watched. One. One person. Is going to win. Eight thousand dollars in restaurant Gift Card trait. Perfect. Perfect. We, you think absolutely. I didn't even think about. You to our full idea. What I just say. I didn't even think about that package. You would set their overwhelming me. What all the ideas you have? That is a great idea and you came up with we we value, but no, that's great. No, that's not failing coupled an idea. Droughts swear to God. He's not asleep. His heart is beating. A little bit too fast ranks. Very happy. Why would apple. Beating a little too fast right now. So. What are you sick? You're not you. You haven't fell right since I met you I, know! You've got to the doctor since President Clinton. Thank you. Wait a minute. What is today, Wednesday? Wednesday yeah. Start getting sick Thursday and Friday just right around the corner. Not Accurate even though he did point out couple of days ago that when you are sick, you typically fall on a Friday or a Monday. I understand that. Thank you. Just somebody just text him. You know the funniest thing is I'm not trying to make fun of. He could be sick. You never know there's always sick. But I get a kick out of what he says. I feel sick. He tells me that every day. He? Probably once. Once a month for me. Yeah Yeah, he doesn't say sick every day, but. None of it is accurate. If do tell me at least once a month, you don't feel well. That's accurate. Maybe you can't deny that. You looking for Friday. For one Friday I would just think Friday. You only got one more day. Hold on. You know what I mean I understand what you're saying. He did look a little Pale yesterday, but I think that's because he hadn't eaten anything. Today either. You do have. Someone just text in to one zero, nine five brought you by absolute roofing trip. Take a text poll. See how many. People would buy the pay-per-view Concert for coats kids for twenty five dollars. We do it on a Saturday night like do three weeks from now. Because the benefits supposed to be next week. We can't it at the Elton into insert. Because you can't have social gathering Joe Thompson so we could do it at his studio. He donated. Text us to one zero nine five. To one zero, nine, five, you by absolute roofing. Would you watch it? Would you donate? And at the end of the night somebody a win. That's watching a eight thousand dollars worth the restaurant trait. Because! We have those gift cards already ready to go. If you're. Would you. What text us to one zero nine five? You'll go ahead. You'll be pleasantly surprised and I know you throughout up that number. You Know Hey, if eight hundred people watch. I think you'll get at least three times. That amount and Five thousand people or five thousand views that wouldn't be out of the question. Truly I don't believe. It's possible. Oh. Wait somebody just said trip. How `bout eight one thousand dollar? Gift Cards of restaurant trade instead of only one of eight thousand. That's fair. We do that, too. That's your call. That's a that's fair. We let the people vote on that. Would you rather have eight prizes of one thousand? Dollars in restaurant gift cards. Or? Would you rather have just one prize of eight thousand? You can text us to one zero nine five. Also text us if you would watch and pay twenty five dollars, and it goes to quotes. Her kids somebody just text to. Chiron? Fire eastbound at four eighty after transportation boulevard. That area has been an absolute zoo today as far as traffic. Yeah, there was independence police car involved in a crash on four eighty westbound about three thirty and shortly after that a separate crash on four eighty eastbound. Near seventy seven and now this report of the car fire on. Near Transportation Boulevard. Somebody just texted to one zero, nine five trivia gotTa Watch. You don't get contact tracers by Dr Amy Act and if you do the benefit virtually. Be Allowed to gather a thousand people virtually. Yesterday's that against the state laws also. Against State Law. Okay seems like people want the eight prizes trip of a thousand the vast majority. We could do that. We do that. We could give away eight different prizes of a thousand dollars worth of restaurant trait, because we have eight thousand dollars to rest around traders sitting locked up right. Ready to go, and instead of giving it back to the restaurants. We get to the people that. A chance to win where people by the pay per view for culture kits. Yeah. It seems like you haven't. We should travel. I our full numbers are two one six five seven hundred eleven. Hundred will change the subject when we come back after Kyle's news. One thing I wanted to talk about if you could look this up I, think it's called Alcohol Dot Org. Okay all right. They did some kind of article or some kind of. Survey Saying that, there's a bazillion people a huge percentage of people a lot of people. I don't know exactly what it is, but look it up during the news. We'll talk about when we come back listening to this. You work from home. They're drinking. While working. In some cases depending on your job. But what if you're answering calls? And you're drinking at home because you're at home and you can't at your home. That'd be a bit, but you're doing it. Dern and your answer like. Is kind of ansel. Sh- CAN I. Help you. Look that up when we come back. Okay, Alcohol Dot Org I think is the name of the website I got it right. Here's Kyle with the news. It's five O. Four, the big win for freedom in Ohio, and against the government or a judge in Lake County says Dr and violated the Constitutional Rights of Health Clubs and gyms by shutting them down, and he's granted a temporary injunction, blocking the Department of L. from taking any action against clubs, which that order the rules pave the way for a lawsuit against the State to move forward as club owners seek damages for the money lost while they were shut down every one of these lawsuits that we filed the damages for our clients that have been done to them by the unconstitutional by the state. they've devastated life savings. They've devastated the national economy. Devastated these both the entrepreneurs and their employees, and he's one of the lawyers handling the suit. The state of Ohio expected to appeal tomorrow will whoever a day for indoor dining in the Buckeye state as a returns with restrictions, executive director of the Ohio licensed Beverage Association Andy Her giving businesses, some insight on how to keep crowds under control explained to the patrons when they go in with the expectation is that they're not allowed to walk around with a drink. You can sit in your chair. Chair and drink. You're not supposed to be talking to other tables and intermingling, and that's really what enforcement is going to be looking for this coming after over the weekend Patios, an outdoor dining reopened in Ohio. A few social distancing issues are also says to avoid pesky lines. Businesses can acquire reservation only dining. A state of emergency in Michigan is governor. Gretchen Whitmer says downtown Midland could be under nine feet of water today thousands order to evacuate due to the failure of two damps devastating. We know that this water is incredibly damaging. It has meant the evacuation of thousands. Would Moore also activated the Michigan National Guard over four inches of rain have fallen parts of Midland County this week. Resulting in the dams flaunt failing and these stay at home order for house transportation. Department headed. It's good and bad sides. The good more construction work was finished due to lower traffic volumes dots. Matt, Brooding says whoever the bad was unlikely dropping feel tax that will have to be used for future projects Iot. which projects are a must need? We can't. We can't wait. We have to do this project. And what projects are something that we could afford to put off for a little while until the budget situation writes itself. Printing also says because this winter was so mild, there were a lot fewer potholes which are created when there are a lot of. Cycles, he says that will help with future road projects as well on Wall Street, the Dow, finishing one point, five percent or three hundred and sixty nine points to twenty, four or five, seventy, five, the NASDAQ, finishing two percent, that's one hundred ninety points to ninety, three, seventy, five and S and P five hundred, finishing up one point seven percent. That's forty eight points to twenty, nine, seventy one. Am Sports Corona, virus pandemic, hitting the Oakland Athletics. Hard team unable to meet in April I one point, two million dollar rent payment for ringcentral coliseum where they play. The team is discussing options with the stadium authority including deferred payments in an effort to meet the rent on the home of the Indians and Cavaliers Carmen Angelov. newsradio gotten TANF eleven hundred, he traffic and weather together mornings and afternoons here eleven hundred we want to. To send congratulations to Joanna Sherry from Brunswick, she wins a fifty dollar garden centers gift card, and is now qualified for the Grand Prize. A ONE THOUSAND DOLLAR PETITE GARDEN CENTERS GIFT Card to open your yard again. Congrats to Joanna, Sherry from Brunswick from fatigue, garden, centers and newsradio Wt am eleven hundred remember to get registered to win at W.. T. A. M. dot com. Good job join. Congratulations Joann or Joanna Joanne Joann Sherry Brunswick. Good Joyon you'll enjoy TV's. I got some really nice stuff there, they really. Did you go to their website? Yes, apparently, alcohol DOT ORG survey, three thousand American workers and what I've come up with is that according to that site? Beer is the drink of choice for workers who are drinking during their workday over one in three say they are likely to drink more during their isolation and one fifth of respondents say actually stockpiled on alcohol. For The Times! Yeah now, see if you were working at home. If you drank the radio station, you'd get fired. Oh, absolutely! What if you were doing the show from home and drinking? I would trip if I was drinking I would get fired if I was doing it from home. Trust me I wouldn't be. Telling you I'm telling you about the average person. Okay? Okay, so if they're at home. And working from home. They're not allowed to drink at work while they're working. Is there a technicality that they get away with. be able to drink at home while working. I guess if they're productive in. They're getting their job done. But like you said if you're at a call center and you can't speak. That's an issue. But if you're able to produce otherwise. I mean just the little things about working from home. If I was working from home. I would be doing. I wouldn't have pants. I'd have probably shorts on a T. shirt. I wouldn't have dress shoes on. Those are a little things that affect you and I I mean. That's how we could do our jobs. Our full numbers there two one six five seven hundred eleven hundred. Do we have any phone calls? Yes, we do sir. Chris Steak one Chris. You're in the air, Chris. Hey trip how you doing. Hey, I wanted to call up I. was part of that Class Action Law suit I've. Had Jim down here in wooster for thirty five years and. was forced to close, and we filed that lawsuit and one today I open back up at three o'clock today. You. Know I'm not sure And why more businesses didn't get together and do that? Why why do you think only only gyms did that? Well I. think Jim. Owners or kind of a tenacious personality number one. Number two I think like myself. I've been in business. Thirty five years of members Jim is good for a lot of are dealing with the former addiction, or they have medical problems, and they almost need that to feel good about themselves and I. Think you know the thing i. Ever Dan I'm a big follow of years, and I agree I. Think as the State of Ohio I know myself. FOR THIRTY FIVE YEARS I've paid sales, tax and income tax and the last few months I've put Zeros so the state and normally gets thousands of dollars from me. The last two months gotten nothing, and if all other businesses like myself at filed similar. tax returns last couple months the state of Ohio it's GonNa be in a huge deficit here really quickly. What did the Lake County? Court the judge. Actually Say A. Are you familiar with the what did they say to the state? The Governor Dr The act. And how did they word that? Well they said basically that they the the Dr Act acton is able to quarantine people that are sick for fourteen days, but they basically played quarantine, the whole state of Ohio that are healthy so normally a quarantine is someone that either has symptoms or has been around somebody that has symptoms. This is just quarantine. Everyone whether you are healthy or not healthy, so it's almost been basically a home arrest Rallo high winds, and he ruled. That was unconstitutional that it's okay to quarantine people that are sick. The people that are healthy. Should be placed on home morass. We should have the freedom of choice. And I respect people don't WanNa come to my business, or if they want to our mask or whatever they wanna do that least let people have the right to make the choice whether they come or not. Don't just close me down because I'm a legal business I'm very willing to sanitize my gym multiple times I'm willing to follow any rules or regulations, but to those close me down with no recourse and eliminate my income I believe is not only un-american aunt unconstitutional, but it's just not right the trip Kita. Can the wait a minute hold on one second could ask a question. Can the governor override the Lake County Court of Common? Pleas that made this decision today to overrule Dr Amy Acton and allow gyms to open. Can the governor over the court or not, or is this done now? Okay what we've I was. Center for Constitutional. Law represented a sound and they're based. In, Cincinnati and Columbus I believe, but what the State may file an appeal, but as of right now we are, we are allowed to open as long as we follow the regulations that has been provided us. We were going to be allowed to open anyhow next Tuesday but what we're seeking now not only is now they may have recourse, but honestly by that whether that's determined, not we should be open back anyhow by Tuesday bucknell. Filing Open which we've won, but we're also can seek damages for being forced to close these last few months, so that's the next step in our lawsuit so we may be able to file to be reimbursed for our business losses through through this lawsuit also so as right now. This is the standing order. They can appeal it, but it has to go through the court system, so as of right now we are allowed to be open, and that's exactly what I was going to ask. You Chris the compensation for that lost revenue. If there was a number of that thirty, five of you involved in this class action suit have come up with or what? Not to get personal what you may be seeking as far as the dollar amount for your facility. Well, I think I would have to go back and look at my my past trends, and what I what I've received in the past, and some gems have thousands of members some have our small personal training studios, and made its have so everyone would have a different dollar amount I've been very fortunate because I've been in business thirty five years. So I own my own building and I'm an established business so I've been. been able to weather the storm and my real, my gold was not to get money out of anybody. Mine was being able to let me make my own money I don't want to be hand out I. WanNa Work My money? You know and saw me as far as the compensation part of it I'm not really too I would say aggressive about that part. I wanted to be more to just be able to. Be My business now other ones, May and I have talked to other gym owners that have made me only been open a few years or even a few months. You know they're devastated and a lot of them won't be able to reopen because they weren't able to make the bills and pay their rent, and they had a much larger overhead than I did so I was. Was One of the fortunate ones, but I do feel terrible for some of these other businesses have been forced to close, so that's right now i. don't have a specific dollar amount but I'm sure it for me. It would be thousands of dollars, and I'm sure it could be tens or twenties, thousands of dollars or more for other gyms that are much larger than mine. Right okay good luck. Thank you a trip. Thanks for standing up for us. I really appreciate how you've handled yourself with this and speaking up for the small businessperson, and and our rights to operate legal businesses safely and make you know you had a business I'm proud of my business. I worked hard for thirty five years and I'd like to have a voice like you speaking up for so thank you very much. Thank you you're welcome. Thank you very much. You're welcome, thank you. yeah I I mean I. Just say this For our long this continues and well beyond that. I just cannot believe the government can just shut businesses down like that. I mean I just. I mean I could under stand, catastrophe and attack or something. this virus is. Deadly dangerous. Depending on who gets it? There's no doubt about it. But it's not a catastrophe and to put people out of business. And not let Americans. Make their own choices about where they go and when they go and what they do and what they don't do. It just so totally against everything. This country stands for. In my opinion in my opinion. And I could only imagine. If I was a small business owner and a hat, a politician and I was doing nothing wrong. And I built my business and I had a politician. Put me out of business. I mean. I mean I. Just couldn't. I don't think I could handle that I I really. Couldn't I mean I I? It will drive me nuts. Because I, know I mean I I think. I don't know this. To be a fact what I'm about to say? But I've been. Self employed and I've worked for people I've tried to build a business and then I got the radio opportunity. I know what it's like to build a business I. Don't think a lot of people do. I don't think enough people really let me rephrase that enough people really understand. A small business owner. And what are what he or she goes through? and. The feeling of accomplishment when you get it running and you start to make money. And you're paying your bills, and you're providing for a family or yourself or whatever okay. I don't think enough people understand how much debt means. To small business owners. And pulling up in front of Your Business. Knowing that you did nothing wrong, you did everything right. And some politician in some doctor are going bankrupt you. That's gotta be. Devastating the some people. Now some people. During this. There's no doubt about it. Some businesses took off. But there's a lot of businesses that are really going to take it on the chin. And I I. my heart goes out to all of them. Because if it wasn't for small business, we will have a country. Is I think a lot of people think everything revolves around big businesses and by the way. I said from the beginning. This is more than a virus I never said there wasn't a virus. I said there's more to this than just the virus. It seems to me now. As this all unfolds, did big businesses had a huge advantage? I mean you had certain stores that Big Corporation will stores that never shut down. Okay. True and Man oh man. They had lines out the door. It's it makes me scratch my head sometimes, just wondering if. Some of this wasn't done by design anyway. Santa for trips, restaurants strong open for lunch open for dinner starting tomorrow, Patios open tonight. Get to the patio. Chair of you'll love it. inside dining tomorrow, social distancing practice at trips restaurant. Half, the tables have been taken out. So you'll be roughly six feet apart. At all tables trips restaurant in strong for lunch and dinner. Right on rowdy to across the Southpark Mall. Course Patios open tonight. Inside dining starts tomorrow for lunch and dinner trips, restaurants drunks stop support all small businesses, not only trips, restaurant and strong to. my son does a great job there and Soda. A lot of other small business owners God bless obvious. Here's A. DOT COM. You. Know to before we go to news here. got a little bit up would Voicing my opinion there about small businesses just before we went to commercial break. But today I was reading an article. Online actually saw some of the video on a got a little emotional, little tingle inside. I mean it's really Kinda Sad. Think about this from this was a hospital in New Hampshire. So the gentleman inside the hospital. Was Dying from Corona virus. His family was not allowed in. They were in the parking lot. Of the hospital his family, they weren't allowed in the hospital. The man died from the corona virus. And the Nurses wrote notes. Big notes which sharpies and put them on the windows. So the family in the parking lot. Knew that their father had just passed away was arresting piece. So! I mean I. Don't know what the. Answer is. To allow you into a hospital when some one of your ones is dying and you can't see him or her. But to see that today and understand how far we have sunk. that. The family is out in the parking lot. The father is inside. He dies. And the nurses put notes on the windows, and the family was thanking the nurses for doing that and to also. I'm surely you don't take it like I'm not GonNa Nurses I'm saying. The way our politicians. Have, forced the situation. You have a loved one in the hospital. And when that loved one passes away. The nurse puts a note in the window. Of that. Did you see that I did not, but I mean I I want to shed a tear right now and somebody. This is an end of life situation I know we gotta go to news, but this is an end of life situation. The president he's got to step in and he's got to allow people in end of life situations to be with their their loved ones. It's the yeah. He had corona virus. This person make sure they have all the proper gear on. Let them go spend his last his last moments their last moments with him He's got A. He's got the ultimate authority I believe he can step in and allow that to happen. Here's Kyle what the news! It's five thirty five Lake County judge jean-louis Cheese is a preliminary injunction blocking enforcement of Ohio health departments orders, shutting down gyms and fitness centers the ruling gain this morning in a lawsuit filed by Iraq House fitness against doctor. Any act in a now possibly opens two doors one for gyms, the other for further pursuit of damages lawsuits against the state to these state expected to appeal some Personal Info Ohio unemployment applicants was made visible due to a data issue, and that has been since corrected today. Today according to the states, officials say there's no evidence of widespread data compromise. Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer says about ten thousand people were able to safely evacuate midland, following the breach of the F. Invaild. Damn heavy rains fell over mid, Michigan Tuesday night, causing flooding and massive damage, and Republicans on the Senate Homeland. Security Committee have authorized a subpoena related to a controversial investigation of Hunter, Biden and Burris Ma. Ukrainian gas company subpoena is for blue. Star strategies a consulting firm with ties to burris mom. Threes forecast from the Mr, hero Roman Burger Weather Center Years Matt wins partly cloudy overnight tonight at remain breezy temperatures, falling into the upper forties to near fifty degrees for Thursday sunshine with some cloudy intervals from time to time can't rule out a stray shower especially to get south of the area, another Breezy Day with high temperatures near seventy degrees. This report is brought to you. Trivisonno show on Newsradio W.. T. AM eleven hundred. A. We got an email today before we went on the air, the somebody emailed us about. One thirty in the afternoon and Carmen right that email down, so you could read it on the air. Go ahead, read it. Trip, they are peeing on our heads and telling us it's raining. The city of Parma has been added to the list of cities, not having summer activities claiming it's because of Corona. Really all the cities are having financial difficulties. No revenue I call Bs. They think we are stupid. So apparently some rating. There's some truth to that trip. There's more than some truth to that I think many municipalities. This was an out for them, and that's unfortunate I'm not saying that's what happened in. But yeah. It's an easy out. Save money well. Bladder States there continually a lot of states were in financial trouble even before the shutdown. like California. and. They'll continue to shut it down, so they get in more financial trouble. Almost on purpose, so they go to the federal government I'm being serious. I know I got and then say to the federal government. We need you to bail us out. Okay you mentioned specifically California. They are in a world of hurt financially. Okay, and yeah, they will likely seek a bailout from Washington but let me play this Fauria while they are in a state of financial hardship, listen to this starting Monday illegal immigrants in California can start applying for economic stimulus money being made available by the Gavin Newsom Newsom as made one. One hundred twenty five million bucks available for those who were ineligible for the two point, two trillion dollar federal stimulus package because they're in the country illegally, newsome says every California. Including are undocumented neighbors and friends should know California. is here to support them. During this crisis, adults are eligible for five hundred bucks with a cap of one thousand dollars per household. Let me. read A. Definitely it's that's why. I'm so glad Ohio so far from California. I'm glad they're not bordering state somebody text in the two one, zero, nine five brought to you by the roofing. We'd be much better off with forty nine states. California flowed out to the Pacific or something. Make them like an island cut him off. They're just float him out. I'm sure we have the technology to do that, right? Somebody at text in to one zero, nine five brought to you by absolute roofing. I'm kidding so just in case of media. Person Listening you know they take everything. The President says seriously. Because sometimes the president kids because he has a personality. I was kidding I. Don't think we have the technology to make California island yet. Somebody a text in to one zero, nine five brought to you by absolute roofing. Even though it'd be a great idea to make California London just float him out into the Pacific. And say listen, you're on your own. You're no longer part of the United States. The texture said wickliffe did the same thing. They cancelled all the pools in all summer activities. Then also somebody else text in. Mayfield Heights is opening their pools. Go mayor the SECO. There you go. So on Mayfield, heights is opening nipples with. wickliffe in Parma is closing their pools for the summer. You can't hold these kids hostage. They've been held hostage since the middle of March the gotTa get out. I. Don't understand the purpose of that. I really don't okay. Yeah. Kids are close to each other in the pool and stuff like that. I have no idea. I have no idea. Hey, you're Asana for window, nation and window nation as a deal right now. If you're buying windows. Listen to this as a homeowner which you can save. They've deferred payments for two full years. That's right. Donations diverge your payments for two full years, and you can get up to fifty percents off any style window. They installed, and they have every style window you need. They WANNA top window companies in the country. They WANNA keep everybody working at the same time as a homeowner. You're getting a deal. And I don't care if it's one window or an entire house, a windows or anything in between. Up to fifty percent off in deferred payments for two full years column. Eight, six six ninety nation give an exact price, not estimate eight, six, six, nine, hundred, eighty, seven, or go their website. Get a virtual estimate. If you so choose WINDOW NATION DOT COM. WHO's next, Rick? Rick you're on the air. Hey. thanks first of all for the sanity the last couple of months. It's been a joy listening to you. I I'm surprised that It's taken so long for businesses to. File suit I I could never figure why hair salons were close to. They couldn't sell shampoo or products on the sidewalk, social distancing and yet Walmart, giant Eagle consolidated as a same with Taylor were were they saw close, but they're shut down. but a Walmart south close, so it didn't seem like there was a whole lot of rationality on the. shutdown Kind of Mir's. Your comments previously. Yeah I yeah I. Thank you for the phone call. I'm not sure why other businesses didn't get together and do the same thing I mean because. I don't want to get stuck on this subject for the rest of this show, but small businesses are important. Anders no way unless it's an absolute national emergency that anybody in this country should be able to shut down all businesses. especially a doctor. Especially, a non elected official. Like Dr Amy Active. It's just absolutely crazy that that could happen. So many smart lives neck. Though the sorry go ahead, no go ahead so many small businesses as you have repeated, have gotten the shaft the past two months I will say about three weeks ago I went to a big box retailer. I got there in the morning about eight. o'clock I bought a television. There were about fifty. TV's that were in stock on the floor in the racks later that. That night when I got off the Air I had to go buy a power strip I went back to this big box retailer. Every one of those TV's at seven fifteen that night. They were all gone. And you talk about you know. The big business truly benefited off of this and I'll tell you. This place did because there was a one TV to be had just eleven hours later. But the funniest thing is restaurants, open tomorrow and outdoor seating is open now, and you can go to a restaurant Patios Open. And most of the restaurants they're encouraging you call and make reservations starting tomorrow. So they can handle the crowd because. Of about fifty percent capacity? To what they used to have. And I know that to be fact because my son is taken out half the tables. Out of the restaurant, so it's about fifty percent capacity. So you need to call and make reservations. But. Here's the funniest thing how they explained. Okay, so we'll just use outdoor. For right now because it's not till tomorrow, indoor seating is open at restaurants that starts tomorrow. So, let's say by coincidence. Me and my wife and another couple we go to chip's restaurant. Last the three days ago. Okay. and. We're on the patio. And just by coincidence Carmen is there. Were two or three of his friends and acquaintances. You know what they actually said. That I'm allowed or he's not allowed either way to come. Up from our table and go over to his table, stand there and talk to. That they said that. You must be seated. Yup can't get up and. If you see somebody at a restaurant and you happen to know them, and you want to just walk up very casually and and briefly and say hello how you doing. You can't do it. Here's a Livia. What's your? Amateur Asana for USA insulation now. I grew up with the. Family I've known them for years and years and years, and I called him and asked they said. Can you do something special for my listeners? because. I know how important installation is especially. If you don't have insulation in your home or you don't have proper insulation. Because I had done in my house years ago, the money it saved me. An energy bills would USA insulation. I paid for it over and over and over so I asked to patrol family anything you can do for the listeners. They said Yeah. We'll give them zero percents financing for eighteen months. How's that? On zero percents financing. For a year and a half, think about that. Call USA installation now four four six. Oh, to forty one. Oh, seven, six, zero to forty, one, zero, seven or go to USA insulation dot net. I'm telling you. Especially, it's going to be in the eighties this weekend. They said. And then it's we're gonNA have nineties during the summertime. You don't have proper insulation. It's a nightmare in your home. You a insulation dot net. Zero percents financing for eighteen months with USA insulation. All right WHO's next doesn't go to seven tonight Mike. Mike. Mike Hi good to talk with you and I did a little research about India and From what I saw today, it appears the rumors are true that she's not board certified. Her Bio states that she training and Trix and preventative health I check the American board of Pediatrics and the American board of Preventative Health website. She's not listed as being board certified I. Call The Ohio Department of Health Today. Asked them point blank. Is Amy and board-certified. Their answer to me was. She's licensed. I said I didn't ask if she's licensed I asked to she's board certified. Their response was. She has a masters in public health again. Is she board-certified? We, don't know. This woman is unbelievable, she is she's also. You've seen the video of her. Claiming that the virus can multiply on tabletops. How this person is allowed to make these kind of decisions for the entire state, and why do I, you know? Full how wholeheartedly trust her is beyond me. There's only one reason she's not board certified Mike and I'm board certified the reason she's not board certified is she's not smart enough to pass the test? There's no other reason. I Hold on hold on. Hold on. Because you're talking with somebody who has a tenth grade education here. What is board-certified mean as far as doctor goes? What does that mean? Means you have to pass a rigorous test. Typically it's every ten years. If you were board certified before in your specialty. If you're board certified before a certain year, you're grandfathered in. You don't have to retake the test every ten years. But since I, WanNa, say nineteen ninety or somewhere around there. You have to retake every ten years to maintain your certification. Most hospitals require the doctor to be board certified to be on their staff. People who don't maintain don't attain board certification typically because they weren't able. They weren't smart enough essentially to take to pass the test. It's it's just amazing to me that she's not and the Department of Health clearly knows that she's not and he's trying to hide behind the fact. She's licensed and she has all right, are you? Are you a doctor? Yes? And your board-certified, yes. Okay, how do I know what you're telling me? Is the truth all you have to get a little research you look bio said she did a residency in pediatrics and also preventative health. Go to the American board of Pediatrics website. You can search for. Who's board certified by name? She's not there. I went to the American board of Preventative Health Sweb site. She's listed so then. That's when I called the Ohio Department of Health. Asked them to verify and they gave me the runaround. Well, you would think the director of a state. Would it be important? I'm asking you real quick because I gotta go here to news. that. They should be board certified. Is that what you would? You would think so? It would show a level of intelligence clearly, but clearly she's not. And like the wind to answer for that Mike and I got gotta as a as a hold on one second. Real quick as doctor real quick. If you give an answer, doctor as a doctor does that, were you? It sure does most people. Scary. It's very scary. Go ahead and DOC. A lot of people have taken her to task because she's not an infectious disease control doctor or. Infectious, disease. She's an Obgyn. I mean in a position like that. Should you be an infectious disease control physician? Well I think that would be helpful. Certainly, but according to her bio, it lifts her doing training in pediatrics and preventative health. So now she's got a lot of background in in being a late term, abortion supporter but you know that's. A secondary issue the facts are she clearly is not intelligent enough to pass the boards. I thank Dr Thank you very much for your opinion and full. Thank you Dr. I didn't know Fort. Certification is a requisite their prerequisite to host I I. Don't know if you could check all add or not. I don I don't know that, but that's a pretty interesting phone call. we'll be back after the news with your phone calls. Eight and we cannot let the cure be worse than the problem itself. We're not gonNA. Let the cure be worse than the the might trigger Sano show on Newsradio W. T.. Am Eleven hundred? Yeah. You'd better tell that governor's. Term and listen to this again I. Don't know how true this is. This is just the tax. People can text us to one zero nine five. Brought to you by absolute roofing. Northeast. Ohio is the most trusted roofing company. Trip of you cannot be an employed physician at UH, or the Cleveland Clinic or any hospital. If you're not board certified. It is a gold standard in medicine. Yes much to like doctor. I think it was Mike who hate we had. I'm right before the news break I have that is more likely the case I trust that texter. Dr, Acton what I can find is that she is a licensed physician in preventative medicine with a master's degree in public health, there is nothing to indicate. Is Board certified. It says that she has thirty years of experience in medical practice, government and community service and healthcare policy. Also tried to find out. If it is a prerequisite that you be board certified to hold her position. There is nothing I can find. It indicates you must be so apparently you can be, or you can be the director of the Ohio Department health being a licensed physician, not have a board certification. So you could be the head of the Ohio Department of Health for a state for any state I. Don't know about any state for Ohio. I should say. And not be board certified. Yes, actors, a doctor just called and said. That's a very important title that a doctor has board-certified yes. It means you passed the highest academia levels there. There are for your profession dot trip. We got a doctor online seven. That can further explain this and this is Dan I. Believe Doctor, how are you? I'm not a doctor. I'm a professional engineer. Sorry about that, but we go to the same star sort of requirements on state so basically you have to take a stake or exam after you have a certain amount of years. Experience in your inner field case engineering. Pass at State Board exam. You have to maintain their license by taking. A second one professional professional development hours every year to here, and I looked up acting that same website, which is easy license dot Ohio. Dot Gov and she is. The she is active on the Medical Board for the state of Ohio, she has an active license so meaning she took the tax. It looks like back in June, nineteen, ninety four, and their expiration date for her license is July twenty twenty one, so I'm not A. Fan but I want to be fair to her I think she got a control and she's doing a lot of damage to the state, but to be fair she is. White some state of Ohio so. Is licensed or board certified? Medical Board. She's on the Medical Board. State Medical Hieaux she has a license interactive. Okay. What you have is there's a license and in the is their board certified like the other doctor said there's two different things. Now those other can't to, but she is. Active licensed practice in the state of Ohio. And we have. Yeah, we know we did. That's what the doctor said, but the doctor had called in. This is not me bringing this up. Dr called in a caller and said that she's not board certified, though which is the next degree for a doctor? She's an MD. DOT medicine. It's all there. I. Can. Assure! You sure have I I understand what he's saying, but I mean what I'm getting is that she's a licensed physician and there is no indication of any board certification and the previous doctor that we had on. He said you have to take that exam every ten years and this gentleman. Let me make this. Let me make this perfectly clear because. Carmen has the I Q of an aunt? The hand I have the I Q of a butterfly. So between the two of us, we probably would have a hard time giving your cough medicine, so let me make that perfectly clear that you're talking to idiots here when it comes to the medical side of everything. So what I did not bring this up. Carbon did not bring this up. We had a caller before the six o'clock news who claimed he was a doctor? The reason I have to say claimed he was a backers, because I don't know if he's a back or not. He said he was. And, he said that the health director of the State of Ohio Dr Amy Acted is not board certified. She's licensed like the last caller said. But she's not board certified you look it up and you couldn't find anything and I. Guess the doctor that called us before the six Pack News said. It's highly important to be board certified. Yes. It. All I have is that she's a licensed physician and the previous caller. We just had said she took her board certification test in one, thousand, nine, hundred, ninety, four, and that her board certification tests expires in twenty twenty one while the doctor that we had on. US. You have to take that test every ten years. But. We have somebody that might be able to explain it further. Let's go to CC terrific. Okay. I don't know if I can help. I come from a medical family. I am not a doctor, but they're five in my family. H. and that doctor that called is correct, a license and Burke Board, certification. They are different. And that is the gold standard when you go. Has a lay person that a physician one of the first things they ask, they tell you do is check at that doctor. Is Board certified? So. That's just like you know like the better business bureau if you will. Okay. That is a standard to see. Okay, you go and see if that if that doctors board-certified, that is absolutely correct. The data's a level of intelligence, however, having settled that the position that you hold, it is a political position. She was a originally appointed I believe. Somewhere, there's an Obama connection with her. It's a political. Appointment. and one of my my family members recently tried to prescribe hydroxy plan for a patient that was diagnosed with. Cold Ed. And Prescription Christian of pharmacists denied filling that prescription. Now. Yes now, yeah, and I understand I appreciate the information. Thank you very much for the phone. Call I gotta go to traffic here. some just text in poor Carmen Trivia. Brutal Damn. What do you mean I said he has the intelligence of an anti the intelligence of a butterfly. I solve with myself you were you were fair. You were fair, right? I was trying to make the point between Carmen and myself. board-certified! We thought you were talking about surfing yes. Okay, we know nothing about the medical, even though Carmen sometimes like to and tell you that he has a degree in medicine or something. One of A. Nothing swear to God. I mean I swear to God. I don't think about says it. No. Hey I'm like Jerusalem for Nissan North Olmstead at nine nine hundred Nissan to Nissan dealerships whether you're buying or leasing, get the Nissan and Dome said I ninety Nissan you will save money and get a quality vehicle and have an award-winning service department there for you when you need it. That's the way the two owners, Mike D'Amato and deal. Bells have designed Nissan North Olmstead an I, nine hundred seventy two dealerships. Man, the savings and the quality of vehicles, no matter what you need, truck SUV sedan convertible. Nissan North said I ninety Nissan for all the INFO. Their website big Nissan that. Point Nine FM. A mix of Sun and clouds throughout the day today mid sixties alone near fifty tonight scattered showers throughout the day on Thursday, a high near seventy. I mean I just wanted to make it perfectly clear Carmen that you would meet and bring us up Dr Amy Acton that a caller who said he was a doctor is the one that brought this up. Yes, and I've done some further research. And apparently you have to be a MS board-certified the American board of medical specialties and I searched Dr Amy Actors Name and for what it's worth to have. Nothing came up. It didn't match anything with her name. So if she was board certified after typing her name in the search engine on the American board of medical specialties website, her name would have come up listing her certification. You so. How we got, we got a lot of calls. A lot of someone texted and said board-certified. Is. For. A doctor is like a restaurant have having a AAA rating. WHO's next Diam? I drive how. Good? Nurse for forty years and I was involved with education of residents and Training Board. Certification is only really necessary if you're doing a specialty. So if you're an ophthalmologist, or if you're pediatrics back, you have to have a board certification to practice that particular field of medicine. You can medicine in the state of Ohio. Without being board certified however. But if you're in specialty, you have to be under that for so that's why you're not finding her on on anything. Other than the board of of Medical Education it shows that she they licensed physician, but if she was certified to do specialty like plastic, surgery or something, then she would be board certified in plastic surgery, so it's not an excessively and I. Don't know what you would need to be. board certified to be in a position. She is I would imagine. The masters in health is probably more important than a certification in that case. You gotta be so yeah. Not your nurse right yes. Sir I am forty years old brawd. Okay. Thanks a lot sir. Thank you for the phone call, thank you, thank you. I I again. I This is the whole thing is blindsided myself in Carmen because. A A collared brought this up prior to the six, o'clock news and collar was a doctor. And the doctor was saying that somebody like Dr Amy acted. WHO's the health director for an entire state and shut the entire state down should be board certified. Can find it I said board-certified is not that important for the position. The doctor Amy acton holes. Again I have no opinion on this. Not because I'm afraid to give my opinion or anything like that I. Just don't I, don't know. Yeah. The nurse said he it's it's the sesame board-certified. If you're an opthamologist or gas, what was the other the other specialty? She brought up. She brought up a couple, but the for her for Dr Atkins. Position. It's not a necessity, and you think it would be since she exerts the authority to completely shut down an entire state. WHO's next ed? Add! How you doing. Good at. Hey. Anyway, I wanNA tell you guys about the testing I live here in lake. County and you know what there is no place to be tested anywhere in northeast Ohio I found this out yesterday because I had shortness of breath and I called the. Wake County Health Department I called I? Actually went all the way to the state. Health Department talked to University Hospital I talk to Cleveland Clinic there is no place for the general public to be tested anywhere except for maybe in Mayfield. There's one place in Mayfield. But. You can't be the general public governor. The governor wants shut everything down, and and until everyone gets dusty, but we can't get tested anywhere on the sixty four year old male. Okay. I have I I'm pretty healthy. But. We all know place you get tested anywhere in northeast. Ohio anywhere any late county, Giaga, county! Ashes y'all county. I missed. I brought this up six or seven times and thank you for the phone call. I brought this up six or seven times I. Don't understand the testing. I mean if this this country is so behind intact testing, it's unbelievable, I don't understand why. The state is way behind and testing. I don't understand why that is. But here's the other thing. Okay so. I could test the today. and it shows that I do not have the coronavirus. I could have it three days from now. So I mean. I guess the reason they're not doing mass. Testing. Is because now. Don't take this the wrong way. I, just explain what I meant here. It really doesn't matter. But what's the difference of I test you? So say. You're a first responder. Something I touched you today. Okay, that's good. You don't have the coronavirus. But I got a test again in two or three days the only. How `bout gotTA. Test you every couple of days, yeah! Vice President pence his press secretary. Two weeks ago on a Thursday tested negative the following day Friday. She tested positive. Remember Yeah. I mean it happens so I mean. What are we gonNa, do we just going to keep testing everybody every like three times a week well ed called and said he couldn't get tested a few experiencing shortness of breath, which is one of the symptoms should have just simply gone to the hospital physically gone to the Er, and said look. I'm exhibiting these symptoms or this symptom. Please test me. And they would when you think well. I have a one of symptoms. Which one I'm fat. Okay. So can I well. That's what they told me. One of the symptoms is so. Can I go in and say I'm fat? Give me a test. Now. They're not going to test you. We're not GONNA test you. Over sixty five and fat I WANNA test. If you're if you're over sixty five and you have temperature of one hundred degree or one hundred point four degrees. Yeah, they'll test you. And meanwhile those the my mentors that you put on your forehead or you stick in your ear. As, what throw those in the Ashburn? How accurate are those? Yeah. Exactly I had one I tested myself and three straight days I was between ninety seven point six and ninety seven point eight. It never hit ninety eight point five never got over ninety eight. So I don't know how accurate those are. Hey I'm Mike Curious Donald for a yeah I as Alad dressing. Okay Yeah Yeah. MEANS GRANDMA IN GREEK? And these are gourmet salad dressings. The any grandma would be proud of. I mean I could drink them right out of the bottle. Now I've had him for months now, and like the white French. I literally drink. It's so good of a salad dressing. And Yours is. Gluten free low in CARBS sodium sugar. and has no preservatives, and you could buy them at most giant Eagle stores in all acmes in the produce section if you're looking for a great salad dressing. They have five different kinds okay. They've the white bull. Zaman, the Italian the Greek, the white French. And and and the ball zomig itself I mean it's just fantastic for all the information. Go their website. Yeah, yeah's. Dot Com. That's yeah, yeah's dressing DOT COM. Yeah, yeah's dressing DOT COM. I. will be back after the.

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Carl Rogers (Humanism & Phenomenology)

The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast

52:17 min | 5 months ago

Carl Rogers (Humanism & Phenomenology)

"Episode thirty six of the jordan. Be peterson podcast. I'm michaela peterson bringer. A podcast episodes and reader of ads. This episode is on carl rogers and is part of the ongoing personality series in this lecture tenth in the two thousand seventeen series. Dad begins to talk about dr carl rogers a humanist psychotherapist in the phenomena logical tradition. I can't believe i said that. Right an expert on listening and embodied wisdom. Dr rogers offers very profound in practical lessons. On the value of truthful this episode is brought to you by head space. i'm so happy were advertising. Perhaps base. Because it's an app. I've been using for about a year. It does guided meditation. And i was never a huge meditators. But i find if i start my morning ten minutes early and just do ten minutes of meditation and makes a really big difference to my day. I've used heads based like i said for about a year on. I love the accent of the voices that are guiding those meditations. The stuff really makes a difference if you're stressed out and who isn't these days this is something i really believe could help. Also not eating donuts. Head spaces backed by twenty five published studies on its benefits. Six hundred thousand five star reviews and over sixty million downloads had space. Makes it easy for you to build a life. Changing meditation practice with mindfulness. That works for you on your schedule. Whenever you don't have to do an hour of sitting there with only your brain to keep you company which sounds kind of dreadful at least for me. I do ten minutes. And i see results like feeling. Calmer user to feel happier and heads. Based is meditation made simple go to head space dot com slash j b p. That's head space dot com slash j b p a free one month trial with access to head spaces full library of meditations for every situation a check it out. I hope you enjoy this episode. If you did remember to subscribe libra review. Tell a friend. Hope you have a good week. So we're going to leap out of the psychoanalytic domain now and start talking about a form of approach to personality and its transformations. That's predicated on a different set of different philosophical assumptions and it's bit tricky to navigate this because it requires the adoption of a different frame of mind. And of course that's the case with all the theorists that we're going to be discussing phenomenology probably had its most thorough explication in the philosophy of martin heidegger and heidegger was actually trying to reconstruct western philosophy from the bottom up. He thought that we had been pursuing an improper pathway. Conceptually really ever. Since the time of the ancient greeks back around turn of the century the previous century said from the nineteenth to the twentieth century. New form of geometry was invented and that geometry was predicated on different axioms than euclidean geometry. Now people had thought for thousands of years that the world was properly described by euclidean geometry. And you know when you employ a system like euclidean geometry you have. There's axioms that you have to accept the rules of the game and once you accept the axioms then you can go ahead and play the game. But there are other forms of geometry invented and in the in the later part of the nineteenth century and it turned out that those forms with different axioms actually described the world better than the euclidean forum. Sort sort of like the transformation from newton to einstein. This was the transformation from euclid to say. I think i've got his name right to r. Em an who developed a new form of geometry and it turned out to be just the geometry that einstein needed when he was putting his theories forward. And the reason. I'm telling you that is because you can think of systems that have different axioms as as different tools. Same idea that piaget was to express when he talked about how children's cognitive representations underwent stage transformation. So that they were starting to apply new principals not only a new way of looking at the world but they were fundamentally retooling their presumptions about how the world operated and heidegger tried to do the same thing with philosophy and so and it's tricky to figure out exactly what he was talking about. But i'll give it a shot and then we can move forward with rogers so since the dawn of the scientific world and likely before that we have tended to believe that we are subjects in a world of objects and that's obviously a very useful way to view the world and you can tell that because formalizing that in the form of science has enabled us to extend control over the world in ways that we were not able to before to formulate the idea of an objective truth has been extraordinary useful maneuver and so the idea. Roughly is that everyone's perceptions can be contaminated by their own biases in their own fantasies that subjective biases and fantasies and you can overcome that by stringently specifying the conditions which an observation takes place so that would be an experimental method. Having multiple people view the consequences separately have them detailed what the consequences are and then look for commonalities across them. And you think well the common. Led's across the set of observations constituted description of the object of world and. that's being insanely powerful crazily powerful. I mean that's not all there is to the scientific method but it's a big part of it. Now there's an emerging problem with that. Perhaps it's complicated. But one of the emergent problems without his maybe consequence of stripping the subjectivity out of the world. So what science does consider anything. Subjective a form of bias or error in the observation and then get rid of it. And so what you're left with when you formulate. The scientific world is a world that stripped of subjectivity. Now the problem with that is that your subject and so when you strip the world of its subjectivity. That sorta leaves you. Isolated like an isolated being with no necessary connection to objective reality in the midst of a set of impersonal facts and that seems to have psychological consequences on the psychological consequences. Are that well for example. I think it's easier to develop a nihilistic sense of being for example if you believe that the world is nothing but objects and that you're fundamentally object among many and not a particularly important one at that so there are psychological consequences to adopting the scientific worldview prior to the emergence of the scientific worldview people were more embedded in what you might think about as a mythological landscape you know where every element of being had its place in something that approximated a master plan or at least a meaningful plan and so the idea of the meaning fullness of life was not necessarily such a pressing intellectual concert and then well and so we don't know the full extent of that. I mean i've talked to a little bit about nietzsche's idea expressed at the end of the nineteenth century about the death of god his -cation that the collapse of classic systems of meaning would open up people to possession by nihilism and also by potentially totalitarian political systems and that seems to have been what happened now heidegger was very concerned about that among other things and so he decided to reconsider reality from the bottom up and so what he did was generated an alternative set of axioms. He said something like what if we decide to make reality everything that we experience forget about the subject. Object divide one of the other problems with the subject object divide for example accounting for consciousness right. Because it's a problem that science really hasn't got any distance at all. As far as i can tell i mean people have been trying to crack the secret of consciousness or for a very long time. But they've been trying to do it formally. And using scientific methods at least for the last fifty years and my sense of that is that they've got absolutely nowhere. Maybe that's a bit unfair. We're better at representing how conscious experiences manifest themselves in the brain but we're certainly no better at understanding how it is that we experienced things and that's the problem of kuala. That's how the philosophers describe it and quality is the quality of your experience like the fact of pain. For example the pain you feel is by no means identical at least as far as you're concerned to some pattern of neurological activity right. It's pain it seems to be a fundamental reality of something. In fact i think pain is the fundamental reality. I think it's the only thing that people will never deny. But so these aspects of your existence that are subjective like your experience of color in your experience of beauty and just your experience of things or maybe just your experience and your experience plays a indeterminate. Role in the structure of being itself. Because you might ask well what would there be if there was nothing conscious and you could say. Well what would there be if there was nothing conscious of big well. It's a tricky question because it depends on your eight priority axioms but it's not obvious what there would be in the absence of conscious observer. There wouldn't obviously be any duration between things. It would be very difficult to specify things in terms of size. There wouldn't be any of the qualities that we experience that we experience are being as having because color doesn't seem to be an intrinsic part of the world smell doesn't seem to be intrinsic part of the world. It's very difficult. The more you think about it. You'd find the more difficult. It is to determine exactly what there would be if there was no one to observe it and that's not the tree in the forest idea precisely. It's not so much if a tree falls in the forest and there's no one to hear it doesn't make a sound because that's more a matter of definition of sound than anything else this is more like if there's a tree in the forest and there isn't anyone is the retrea and that's a whole different question anyway. What heidegger did partly. Because he was not pleased. I suppose with metaphysical consequences of the scientific worldview and also perhaps because he wasn't very happy about our ability to account for consciousness he decided to see what would happen if he played a different kind of game. And you can do that in an intellectual discussion. You know you can say well. Here's a set of axioms out of which assistant will emerge like. Here's a set of rules out of. Which game would emerge same idea. What if we start with a different set of rules. Let's see what we can do if we do that. You kind of do that when you play one video game rather than another you know their little world that pop out there there's different. There's a different underlying structure and then you can go inside that world and experiment with it and see what what comes out of it so heidegger decided to say okay. What we're gonna do instead is. We're going to assume that everything we experience is real. We're going to make our field of experience itself reality and so that would mean from hikers point of view that everything about the being that manifests itself to you is to be regarded as equally real. So then you think well that makes pain of fundamental reality that makes anxiety a fundamental reality. It makes beauty and color fundamental reality. Is there not self evidently reducible to anything else which they would be which they are in the scientific from the scientific perspective because you have to think about them as manifestations of some more fundamental underlying material reality and i guess that's another problem with the subject object model and the material model when you aggregate atoms when you arrange them. In certain forms when they manifest themselves a certain molecules and more complex structures. They seem to take on all sorts of qualities that you couldn't predict if you just knew about the subatomic particles in the atoms themselves. So of course was are called emergent properties and you say well you can observe hydrogen. You can observe oxygen but that doesn't make it self evident for you to be able to predict the properties of water. And of course that's a much simpler problem. All things considered then the problem of figuring you out here this crazily complex aggregate of these hypothetical hypothetically simple entities but it isn't obvious how their elemental properties can combine to produce a you. It's not obvious at all. It certainly not obvious how a material that's supposed to be dead matter so to speak can can manifest consciousness no matter how complexly it's arranged so the phenomenology gets heidegger leading them were attempted to produce a philosophical model of being and we'll talk more specifically about the phenomenology. We're done with rogers. But he's he fits in that philosophical framework and one of the things that i thought. This is bit of a tangent. But i'll move back to more leftwards. See i really liked the psychoanalyst. And i liked the idea that you have a psyche. That's inside of you. And that is structured in partly consciously and unconsciously. There's something about that. That's really cool and i've learned a lot from the psychoanalyst but you know there is a funny consequence of thinking the way they think. And you do think the way they think. Even if you don't know it like we tend to think that a lot of us inside our head you know that's the psyche model basically but the more. I've practiced as a clinical psychologist less. I've actually been convinced that that's true. So i could say. Well let's say. I want to know about your personality. We think i wanna know you. I want to know about your subjectivity. I want to know what's inside of you but that isn't actually what you do want to know if you're doing clinical work say with someone you want to know. Do they have any friends. That's really important because if you're miserable and anxious and badly placed in life and misbehaving one of the reasons that all of that can occur is because you don't have any friends you don't know anyone and that's not something that's inside you. It's you localized in a broader sphere. And then you might say well. Do you have a job and well. Let's talk about the job. He actually make enough money with your job. Is it satisfying for you in any way. Are you bullied all the time when you're at work. Does it provoke anxiety. Is it a career that allows you to go somewhere. Are you overworked. Well let's start with just the first question. do you have a job. Well if the answer to that is no you have a serious problem and that would enough might be to depress you and make you anxious and hopeless listrik and all of those things and you could say. Well you're not reacting very well to not having a job but that's kind of a foolish objection even some of it might be true. One problem is is that you're not reacting very well to not having a job but another problem is that you don't have a job and that actually constitutes a problem. You don't get to eat. You don't have a place to live. So let's psychological problems precisely. Even a psychological problem could make it worse well as educated as you should be. That's another question. How do you handle drugs and alcohol. Are they taking you down. A bad pathway. You know what about intimate relationships. You have one. Do you have a plan for one or is that a never ending series of catastrophes or something that you avoid completely too big problem. And maybe people don't aren't attracted to you for one reason or another and you can think about is a psychological problem but it's an interpersonal problem and the degree to which that's a psychological problem is is certainly unspecified when you first begin to talk somebody. What about your family. Do you have a family. Because it's hard to be in the world all by yourself. That's for sure. It makes things a lot more stressful even though having a family can also be extraordinarily stressful plans to have children. How are you doing with your parents. Do you get along with your siblings. You know all of that. All of that to me is more fundamental. And outside of you those are elements of your experience lally conceptualized more than they are objects of your psychology or of your internal experience. It's sort of like while a person is is is a creature that exists at multiple levels of analysis. Right something might go wrong with you at a cellular level. So maybe you're born with a genetic abnormality so something's wrong with you molecular or you have something wrong with a major oregon or maybe there's something wrong with you. Psychologically or maybe you're in a pathological family or maybe you're stuck in a pathological social system and and figuring out what's why you're suffering means going up and down those different levels trying to specify the appropriate level for analysis and also the appropriate level for intervention. And for me. As as i've said even though i'm a great admire of the psychoanalysts and i do things like dream analysis which i really find you credibly useful at enlightening the first fundamental level of analysis as well. What's your experience structured. Like exactly and that isn't localized in. You know the behaviorists do that too. Because it's one of the things. I really like about the behavioral approach to psychotherapy. It's very very concrete and practical. It's like they'll say well there's certain things that you need to have in order to live properly. And maybe you don't have the skills or the wherewithal wherewithal to accumulate them. And we'll break them down into tiny little pieces and you'll practice so for example someone who doesn't have any friends than you do micro analysis of their social skills saying maybe an analysis of the kinds of anxiety that are stopping them from going out and meeting people. And then you address those things practically one by one you try to get the person. Have some friends you try to figure out how they can establish an intimate relationship. You see if you can help them sort out their family. You do what you can about their employment and a lot of. That's only generally related to really in some sense to the structure of their psyche. But one of the things. You'll if you work as a clinician or as a counselor is that most of the time people come and see you because they have problems not because they have psychological problems and those things are not that easy to distinguish sort of the psychoanalytic ideas sort of like well. If you start your act together everything would work out for you. It's like yeah there's some truth in that but but you know if you're fifty five years old and you've just been laid off work and maybe through no fault of your own. It isn't obvious how much getting your act together is going to help you find another job because the actual problem that you're facing may have relatively little to do with you and that would especially be the case if you're maybe on the bottom half of the intelligence distribution for example and so it isn't as easy for you just to go out and pick up new skills at the drop of a hat you know cannot gets harder as you get older because your i q actually declined quite substantially as you get older the working or the fluid intelligence part anyways. Exercise can keep that at bay by the way. It's the best way to keep that at bay. So anyways you can think from the phenomena logical viewpoint of your experience as a whole instead of you being a subject and an object of world and so here's another way of here's something that's quite useful young talked about this because he was moving towards a phenomenal logical perspective. Later in his life last book he wrote was called mysterious. He talked about three conjunctions that needed to take place in order for someone to be well constituted. Psychologically and you know how piaget talked about learning that you could not only follow rules but that you could make rules for new games. As sort of the highest level of moral development would say you extended the jedi and moral continuum up past. What piaget had envisioned. Now he didn't. He didn't do that because he wasn't trying to extend piaget's model but you can think about it the same way. It's not easy to come up with a moral mode of being say that transcends the ability to make rules for new games. That's damn smart man. That's that's that's a major home run by. Pj as concerned but young said something like this said look when you're going through the process of psychological integration. Here's a way of conceptualizing. And he thought about this as symbolically as male female pairings. Because as i've tried to point out the most one of the most fundamental character categories that are mythological imagination uses to structure the world is the category of masculine and feminine and in moves that around. You know it's a fundamental metaphor so you can move that around anywhere and so young well. One of the things that you're trying to do is to get your thoughts and your emotions integrated and so you know the classic enlightenment viewpoint. Roughly speaking is something like passion is the enemy of reason. Right and so to the degree. That you're rational. It's sort of a friday viewpoints because he got your emotions under control and there's some truth in that but not enough truth. I like the jetty. An idea better is that no no. That isn't what happens. What happens if if you're playing the proper game you integrate your emotions underneath your thinking something like that. So they're all working in the same direction you know so for example you can make your anxiety work against you or for you and one of the ways i did. I made a program called the future. Authoring program that i think helps people do that. Because one of the things you see when you're talking to people and they're trying to solve problems is that they're afraid to face the problem and so then there anxiety is working against him and you can think about it as a as antagonistic to rationality. But then i say well. Why don't you think for a while. About what your life would be like if you didn't face this problem because if you think fat through if you have a problem and you really think through what the consequences are going to be in three to five years of not facing it. Then you're going to get more afraid of not facing then facing it and that's great because then your anxiety instead of standing in front of you instead of you having a dragon. That's guarding the path in front of you and you have one chasing you down the path from behind a lot more useful and so you know that's just a minimal example of the utility of getting your emotions and your and your thoughts aligned the same way. The same thing happens with aggression. One of the most common reasons that people come and seek psychotherapy really is because they're too agreeable but what that means is they're not assertive enough they have an integrated their capacity for aggression and so other people can push them around. And and they're very conflict avoidance and so the consequences of that across time is that you don't stand up for yourself well enough and you get taken advantage of and that spirals batley downward and so partly what you do when you're doing assertiveness training with people as you find out what they're angry about and they're usually angry angry if they're not assertive enough because other people are taking advantage of them or you could say because they're not putting their own necessities forward with enough force. It's hard to distinguish between those two things but anyways you try you get them to talk about what they're angry about. That often makes them cry often many times. And then you get to kind of envision what they would want to have instead which they're often afraid to do because people are afraid to think about what they want because that makes it more clear when they're not getting it in that's painful right or maybe they're afraid of hoping so they won't specify a clear abe but anyways you get them to think about what they might want instead you get them to think about the costs of not pursuing that and then you help them develop strategies for integrating their aggression and with their thinking so that they can come up with a plan to approach the world in a more confident way so for example. Someone might come to me and say. I'm being bullied badly at work. And so then. I'll say well. What are your options. You have to put up with it. Well we'll we'll figure that out because maybe you do. Maybe don't have options but here's how to find out get your damn cv together so it's pristine right it's ready to go get over your fear of a new interview because people are generally afraid of that. Get over your fear of applying for a new job start thinking about what it would mean to have a different job start thinking about what it would mean to have a better job even because maybe your fear is just making you stuck here but i can tell you one thing if someone's picking on you at work and you don't have options you lose so you get the person to start building a strategy. It's like okay. If you're gonna tell this person to stop you have to know how to make them stop and one and the one thing you need for sure is an option. And if you can't if you don't have an option then maybe we start thinking about the fact that you need some more training or something like that because you cannot negotiate if you don't have any power so because while especially if you're dealing with someone who's really out to get you really disagreeable if you don't have a leg to stand on they'll just push you over. Maybe they'll jump on youtube because that's what they're like and they enjoy it anyway so it's no joke so you put your options behind you and then you start to think about strategy so i tell people look. If you're being harassed at work you documented every time it happens and you write it out. So you've got like twenty stories about it and it's fully documented and then you confront the person at some point but with at least three pieces of evidence and you have some sense of what you tell them about. What will happen if they don't stop so you have to figure out. Well if they don't stop what are you gonna do about it leave. Not if you can't leave so you have to be able to. What is it wheeled a big stick and speak softly. But you see that way. It's that's how you take your aggression which is absolutely necessary part of your psyche and manifested up into a sophisticated means of dealing with the world. You don't just suppress it. You say well. I should be able to put up with it or i wish i wasn't so angry or something. It's like forget that that's all it will happen. Is your blood pressure. Stay high and you'll die of a heart attack because anger for example a very toxic emotion and it does cause heart damage over time. It's the only emotion that we really know that's been linked to things like cardiovascular. Risk and anger is toxic. Because it's like you're driving a car you've stepping on the gas and pushing on the break at the same time because anger tells you to run away and to attack at the same time. Because you don't know what's going to happen and so it it really amps the physio logical demand on your body and so if you including your heart and your muscular so if you stay like that for like ten years you know you're gonna age twenty years and that's a bad plan so so you know you take your underground emotions and you integrate them into a sophisticated reality now. Young said so first of all unite. Your unite your mind. You're thinking let's say with your emotions so that makes one thing instead of to fighting things. Okay that's a good one and then the next conjunction he talked about was it isn't enough to unite your mind and your emotions and he thought about that as a male female pairing symbolically. That's how it would manifest itself sometimes in dreams so you take the masculine element and the feminine element the the thinking and the emotion unite those. And that makes you more like one thing. Okay now all of a sudden that's represented as symbolically mail that one thing and it unites with something else that's now represented symbolically feminine female. That's the body. So you take the mind emotion integration and integrate that in your body. So what does that mean you acted out instead of just thinking. So there's this philosophical idea called a now. I'm going to forget what it's called. It's a contradiction action. There's actually a technical term for it. But that's when you think and believe something but you don't act it out and so that means there's a dissociation us somehow between your abstract representations and what you manifest inaction well that's another form of discontinuity that isn't doing you any good. You know the driver's going one way and the cars going the other and you won't even build understand yourself if you do that but even more you're not putting your principles into practice so you're dissociated you're being dissociated so once you get your mind in your emotions working together then the next thing to do is to act out consistently so that was the second conjunction as far as was concerned and then the third one was. This is tough one and this is the one that's related to phenomenology. You erase the distinction between yourself in the world okay. That's a tough one. So imagine you're dealing with someone who's hoarding now. People who are hoarding are often older or neurologically damaged or they have obsessive compulsive disorder. But then you walk into their house and there's like ten thousand things in their house. There's there's there's there's maybe one hundred boxes and you open up a box in the box. There's some pens and some old passports and some checks and their collection of silver dollars and some hypodermic needles and some dust and a dead mouse. And and and there's boxes and boxes and boxes like that in the house. It's absolute chaos in their absolute chaos chaos. And then you think is that their houses without there being their mind and answer is there's no difference. There's no difference. So i could say well. If you want to organize your psyche could start by organizing your room if they would be easier. Because maybe you're a more concrete person and you need something concrete so you clean up under your bed and you make your bed and you organize the papers on your desk and you think well just exactly. What are you organizing. Are you organizing the objective world or are you objecting your field. Are you organizing your field of being. Like your field of total experience. And young believed that and i think there's a buddhist doctrine that sort of nested in there that at the highest level of psychological integration. There's no difference between you and what you experience now. you think. well. I can't control everything i experienced. But that's no objection because you can't control yourself any way so the mere fact that you can't extend control over everything you experience is no argument against the idea that you should still treat that as an extension of yourself so you could say well. Let's say you have a long standing feud with your brother sat a psychological problem. Is that him. Is it a problem in the objective world or is is it a problem in your field of being and it's very useful to think that way because you might ask. What could you do to improve yourself. Well let. Let's step one step backwards. The first question might be. Why should you even bother improving yourself. And i think the answer to that is something like so. You don't suffer anymore stupidly than you have to. And maybe so others don't have to either. It's something like that. There's a real junction at the bottom of it. It's not some casual self-help doctrine. It's that if you don't organize yourself properly you'll pay for it and in a big way and so will the people around you know and you say well. I don't care about that but that's actually not true. You actually do care about that because if you're in pain you will care about it and so you do care about it. Even if it's just that negative way you know it's very rare that you can find someone who's in excruciating pain who would ever say well. It would be better if i was out of. This sort of pain is one of those things that brings the idea that it would be better if it didn't exist along with it. It's incontrovertible so you get your act together so that there isn't any more stupid pain around you the necessary well so then the question might be. Well how would you go about getting your act together and the answer to that and this is a phenomenal logical idea to. It's something like look around for something that bothers you and see if you can fix it so now you think well let's say there. Let's say you go into you can do this in a room. It's quite fun to do it. Just when you're sitting in a room like a room maybe your bedroom you can sit there and just sort of meditate on it and think okay five. Wanted to spend ten minutes making this room better. What would i do and you have to ask yourself that right. It's not a command. It's like are genuine christian and things will pop out in the room that you know you like. There's a stack of papers over there. That's kind of bugging you and you know that maybe little order there would be a good thing and you haven't there's some rubbish behind your computer monitor that you haven't attended to for like six months and the room would be slightly better if it less dusty in. The cables weren't all tangled up the same way. And like if you if you allow yourself just to consider the expanse in which you exist at that moment they'll be all sorts of things that'll pop out in it that you could just fix and you might say well. If you were coming to see me for psychotherapy this easiest thing for us to do. I would just be to get you to organize your room. You think is that psychotherapy and answer is well. It depends on how you conceive the limits of your being. And i would say start where you can start you know if something announces itself to you which is a strange way of thinking about it as in need of repair that you could repair then. Hey fix it. You fix one hundred things like that. Your life will be a lot different now. I often tell people to fix the things you repeat every day because people tend to think of those as trivial right. You get up. Brush your teeth. You have your breakfast you know you have your routines that you go through every day. Well those probably constitute fifty percent of your life and people think well they're mundane. I don't need to pay attention to them. It's like no no. That's exactly wrong. The things you do every day those are the most important things you do hands down. All you have to do is do the arithmetic. You figure it out right away. So hundred adjustments to your broader domain of being. There's a lot less rubbish and there's a lot less rubbish around it a lot fewer traps for you to step into and so that's in keeping with things idea about racing the once you've got your mind and your emotions together and once you're acting that out then you can extend what you're willing to consider yourself and start fixing up the things that are part of your broader extent now. Sometimes you don't know how to do that. So you might say imagine you're walking down and blur street and there's this guy who's like alcoholic and schizophrenic and has been on the streets for ten years he sort of stumbled towards you and you know incoherently mutters something. That's a problem and it would be good if you could fix it. But you haven't got a clue about how to fix that you just walk around that and go find something that you could fix because if you muck about that not only. Is it unlikely that you'll help that person. It's very likely that you'll get hurt yourself. So just because while you're experiencing things announce themselves as in need of repair doesn't mean that it's you right then and there. That should them. You have to have some humility. You know you don't walk up to a helicopter that isn't working and just start. Tinkering away with it. You have to stay within your domain of competence but most of the time if people look at their lives. you know. it's very interesting thing to do. I like. I like the idea of the room. You can do that at the drop of a hat you know. Go back to where you live and sit down and think okay. I'm gonna make this place better for half an hour. What should i do have to ask. And things will just pop up like mad. And it's partly because your mind is a very strange thing as soon as you give it a name a genuine name. It'll reconfigure the world in keeping with that aim that that's actually how you see to begin with and so if you said at a task especially if you have to be genuine about it which is why you have to bring your thoughts and emotions together and then you have to get them in your body so you're acting consistently you have to be genuine about the aim but once you aim the world will reconfigure itself around that aim which is very strange and it's it's technically true. You know the best example of that. You have all seen this video where you watch. The basketball is being tossed back and forth between members of the white team versus the black team. And while you're doing that guerrilla walks up into the middle of the video and you don't see it. It's like if you thought about that experiment for about five years. That would be about the right amount of time to spend thinking about it because what it shows you is that you see what you aim at and that man if you can get one thing through your head and as a consequence of even being in university that would be a good one you see what you aim at and so because one inference. You might draw from that is be careful what you aim at what you aim at determines the way the world manifests itself to you and so if the world is manifesting itself in a very negative way one thing to ask is are you aiming at the right thing now. you know. I'm not trying to reduce everybody's problems to an improper aim. People get cut off at the knees for all sorts of reasons. They get sick. They have accidents. There's a random element to being. That's for sure but and so you don't wanna take anything even that particular phrase too far you want to bind it with the fact that random things do happen to people but it's still a great thing to ask okay. So rodgers was phenomenal logist and he was interested in. He didn't start his philosophy from the perspective of subject versus object or from the idea of psyche. Like sort of inside you. Your mind with its layers. That's not how we looked at it and so let's go through. Well i'll introduce you to rogers. I think then we'll talk more next. I'm going to start with something. That i learned from him that i think it was of crucial importance. And so we'll set the stage for further discussion with this. I'm going to read it to you. Assuming a minimum mutual willingness to be in contact to receive communications. We may say that. The greater the community communicated congress of experience awareness and behavior on the part one individual the more the ensuing relationship will involve a tendency towards reciprocal communication with the same qualities mutually accurate understanding of the communications improved psychological adjustment and functioning in both parties and mutual satisfaction in the relationship. It's quite a mouthful. What does it mean assuming a minimum mutual willingness to be in contact and to receive communications. Okay we're having a conversation. I'm deciding i'm going to listen to you right. That's different than how people generally communicate because usually when they communicate. They're doing something like okay. We're going to have a conversation. And i'm gonna tell you why i'm right and all win if you agree or maybe you're having a conversation where i don't know what you're trying to do. Maybe you're trying to impress the person you're talking to see. You're not listening to them at all. You're just thinking about what you're going to say next okay. So that's not this. This is you might have something to tell me. And so i'm gonna listen on the off chance that you'll tell me something that would really be useful for me to know and so you can take about a dozen as an extension of the pg pg talked about the fundamental the fundamentally important element of knowledge being to describe how knowledge is sought the process by which knowledge has generated. Well if you agree with me. And i find that out. I know nothing more than i knew before. I just know what i knew before. And maybe unhappy about that because it didn't get challenged but i'm no smarter than i was before but maybe you're different than me and so while i'm listening to you'll tell me something i would. I don't like maybe it's something. I find contemptible or difficult. Whatever maybe you'll find. You'll tell me something i don't know and then i won't be quite as stupid and then maybe i won't run painfully into quite as many things and that's a really useful thing to know especially if you live with someone in you're trying to make long-term peace with them. They are not the same as you and the way they look at the world and the facts that they pull out of the world aren't the same as your fouts and even though you're going to be overwhelmed with the proclivity to demonstrate that you're right it is the case the two brains are better than one and so maybe nine of the ten things they tell you are dispensable or maybe even forty nine out of fifty but one thing all you need to get out of the damn conversation is one thing you know and one of the things. That's very cool about a good psychotherapeutic. Is that the whole conversation is like that. All you're doing is trying to express the truth of the situation as clearly as possible. That's it and so now. Rogers proposition and i'll tell you why he derived it. Was that if you have a conversation like that with someone. It will make both of you better. It'll make both of you. Psychologically healthier so there's an implicit presupposition that the exchange of truth is curative. Well that's very cool idea. I mean it's a very deep idea. I think it's the most profound idea it's the it's the idea upon western civil upon which western civilization although not only western civilization is actually predicated the idea that truth produces health but for rogers that was the entire purpose of the psychotherapeutic alliance. You come to see me because you want to be better. You don't even know what that means necessarily neither do i. We're gonna figure that out together but you come and you say look. Things are not acceptable to me. And maybe there's something i can do about that. So that's the minimum precondition to engage in therapy. Something's wrong you're willing to talk about it truthfully and you want it to be better without the therapeutic relationship does not get off the ground and so then you might ask well. What relationships are therapeutic and answer. That would be if you have a real relationship. It's therapeutic if it isn't what you have is not a relationship. God only knows what you have your slave there a tyrant you're butting heads with one another. It's a primate dominance hierarchy dispute. All your two cats in a barrel or two people with their hands around each other's throats but what you have is not a relationship so alright we may say that the greater the communicated congruence of experience awareness and behavior on the part of one individual. That's that's a reference to the same idea that i was describing with regards to you. So let's say you come and talk to me and you want things to go. Well well i'm going to have to more or less. Be one thing. Because if i'm all over the place you can't trust any continuity and what i say there's no and there's no reason for you to believe that i'm capable of actually telling you i'm capable of expressing anything that's true. So the truth is something that emerges as a consequence of getting yourself lined up and beating all the what would you call all the impurities out of your out of your out of your soul for lack of a better word. You have to be integrated for that to happen and you do that. At least in part by wanting to tell the truth the more of the ensuing relationship will involve a tendency towards a reciprocal communication with the same qualities. So one of the things that. I've been quite influenced by rogers one of the things i tried to do. In my therapeutic sessions is first of all to listen to really listen and then we'll well. I listen i watch and well i'm listening. Things will happen in my head. You know maybe. I'll get a little image of something or get a thought or a question will emerge and then i'll just tell the person what that is but sort of directionless. It's not like. I have a goal except that we're trying to make things better. I'm on the side of the person i'm on. The side of the part of the person that wants things to be better not worse and so then those parts of us have a dialogue and the consequence of that dialogue. Is that certain things take place. And then i'll just tell the person what happened and it isn't that i'm right. That's not the point. The point is is that they get to have our someone actually tells them what they think. Here's the impact you're having on me. you know. this is making me angry. This is making me happy. This is really interesting. This reminds me of something that you said an hour ago. That i don't quite understand and the whole the whole point is not for either person to make the proposition or convince the other that their position is correct but merely to have an exchange of experience about how things are set up and it's extraordinarily useful for people. Because it's often difficult for anyone to find anyone to talk to. That will actually listen and so another thing. That's really strange about this listening. Is that if you listen to people they will tell you the weirdest bloody things so fast you just cannot believe it so if you're having a conversation with someone and it's dull it's because you're stupid that's why you're not listening to them properly. Because they're weird they're like warm bats or albatross is or rhinoceros. Is there something strange creatures. And so if you are actually communicating with them and they were telling you how weird they really are it would be. It would be anything but boring so and you can ask questions. That's a really good way of listening. But one of rodgers points to oriented properly in order to listen and the orientation has to be what. I want out of this conversation. Is that the place we both end. Up is better than the place we left. That's it. That's what i'm after and if you're not after that you got to think why the hell wouldn't you be after that. What can you possibly be after. That would be better than that. You walk away smarter and more well equipped for the world than you were before you had the conversation and so does the other person well. Maybe if you're bitter and resentful and angry and anxious and you know generally annoyed at the world then. That isn't what you want. You want the other person to walk away worse and youtube because you're full of revenge but you know you'll get what you want if you do that so we know from research. That such empathic understanding defined that i wanna hear you. I want to hear what you have to say so we can clarify it and move forward. I wanna have your best interests in mind and mine as well but you know both at the same time your families to if we could manage that we're after make things better. We know from research. That such empathic understanding understanding with a person not about him such an effective approach that it can bring about major changes in personality. Some of you may be feeling that you listen well to people and that you have never seen such results. The chances are very great. That you have not been listening in a manner that i've described. Fortunately i can suggest a little experiment that you can do to test the quality of your understanding the next time you get into an argument with your wife or your friend or a small group of friends. Stop the discussion for a moment. And for an experiment institute this rule each person can speak up for himself only after he has. I restated the ideas and feelings of the previous speaker accurately would accurately means. Is they have to agree with the statement. Now that's an annoying thing to do because if someone is talking to you and you disagree with them. The first thing you want to do is take make the stupidest possible thing out of it that you can. That's the straw man and then demolish it so then you can walk away feeling good about it. And you know you primate dahmane's dominated them really nicely so but that isn't what you do you say okay. Well i'm gonna take what you told me. And maybe i'm even gonna make your arguments stronger than the one you made. That's useful if you're dealing with someone that you have to live with because maybe they can't bloody while express themselves very well but they have something to say so you make their argument strong all right. Then you see what this would mean. It would mean before presenting your own point of view. It'd be necessary for you to really achieve the other speakers frame of reference to understand his thoughts and feelings so well that you could summarize them for him. Sound simple doesn't it but if you'll try it you'll find that it's the most difficult thing that you've ever done okay. Good we'll leave it at that and then we'll see you on tuesday.

heidegger piaget michaela peterson dr carl rogers Dr rogers rogers einstein carl rogers martin heidegger euclid nietzsche peterson newton kuala jordan oregon heart attack youtube fifty percent young
6-1-20 Mike Trivisonno Show

The Mike Trivisonno Show

2:18:28 hr | 1 year ago

6-1-20 Mike Trivisonno Show

"Radio station the videos speak for themselves. You could see the projectiles coming from the crowd being thrown at the police, they were standing behind protesters doing that. They wanted to incite a riot. They wanted to 'cause. They wanted they wanted the protesters to get hurt. They wanted to police. Let me say that they wanted to police the hurt the protesters. That's what they want. That were. Little kids like they wanted those little kids hurt. They wanted those grants, or they wanted. Those grandpas hurts. This was this was sickening. They want they. They wanted blood I lakeside avenue. That's what they wanted and thank God enough of those protesters were able to get out of there as fast as they could. Because of not, there would have been blood in the streets. You would have been little children her and they would have been pointing fingers at the Cleveland Police Department. You know the pigs look with the pigs dead. Look with the pigs debt, okay? That was CLEVELAND. City councilman Mica Plastic yesterday. As, we are on every Sunday from nine to noon. And the reason I replayed that today. Is Not that. I want to talk about that for four hours today, but I wanted to bring up a point that I haven't heard. Anybody Bring any attention to and consummate Michael. said that yesterday. Is the and Tif far whatever WANNA call it I know the people that came in. To cause trouble Saturday at the protest. Were be hanging. The protesters and Cleveland City Councilman Michael Poetic made a great point. They were hoping that the police would react and the protesters. That wasn't excellent point that he brought up yesterday. I would go to seven o'clock tonight. Our full numbers Zara to once you know sometimes poetic isn't as dumb as. As As, a lot of people think he. Actually is politically. But Michael, CLEVELAND. City Councilman Michael Points it makes a lot of great points really does. He's one of the few democratic politicians That makes. A great point somebody just texted hatred. You move to Chester Lynn, yet. you can text us at two one, zero, nine five Rodney by absolute roughing I did not. I did not. Our full numbers are also two one six five seven hundred eleven hundred to one, six, five, seven, eight, one one one. We'll take your phone calls after the news. Another point I want to bring out. Now! It's all over the place. I'm news National News, the virus the coronavirus. They're now saying going to spread even more because of the protesters. And the lack of social distancing with the protesters. So now the media has. Predicted that the they'll be a surge. In coronavirus cases because of the protesting. No social distance. They're saying. Actually the corona virus as far as the media is concerned. has completely gone away. disappeared. Yup. Since Saturday. And all the rioting and all the looting. And People want to call it protesting, but again it's not protesting. It's protesters. Who are there for a cause, but then criminals coming. And rioting and looting not protesters in most cases in most cases it's. Completely different topic completely different group people. From the protesters took criminals. That, attend the protesting riots. But the corona virus now is not even trending. What I mean by that you know if you go like on Yahoo has the top trending like. Let me go there real. Quick on my computer, just just using them as an example. It has the top trending stories. The Corona virus was number one for two and a half months. The TAB trending story right now on Yahoo. Is, George Clooney. The Corona viruses not in the top ten. Of Trending, and that means what people are looking at the numbers of people looking at the number one. Trending story now and the Internet. Is George Clooney. I have no idea what he did. Kuni searches and Keila. has made him two hundred and thirty nine million in county. George Clooney this drop top trending story. George Clooney, search. For. A hangover lists Tequila. has made him two hundred and thirty million in county. Only in America. That's the top. The Corona virus isn't even trending anymore, and if you turn out news well, we'll do that. Tell me what Fox News Fox News on right now. yes, Rudy Giuliani is on talking to bill hemmer about George Floyd. And the riots. TOLD YOU CORONA VIRUSES GONE? Here's Kyle with the news. Thank you. Three of its three eight downtown Cleveland Ohio City quiet at for a weekend of unrest city officials extended a curfew for those areas through at least eight PM. Tomorrow night to prevent further damage from protests that stemmed from George Voids death in Minneapolis more than five dozen people facing judges this week after being charged in connection with the protests, police say sixty six people overall were arrested Saturday evening charges that include aggravated rioting vandalism curfew violations. Violations several. The arrests involved people from out of the state and that are working to find out how and why they pay Cleveland meanwhile macy. Jefferson has more on the cleanup efforts around the city. What took hours to destroy with bats and bricks will take weeks to repair. Some stores may never recover now shuttered again after months of Covid nineteen closures, but people who live in downtown Cleveland showed up in force Sunday to begin cleanup last night. Understand quite. Saint John's citizen here. Swept Glass in boarded up. Windows saw torched cars towed, and with the curfew in place city, employees and members of the Cleveland. Alliance will continue the work asking volunteers to stay home for their safety. I may see Jepsen Wti News, the president, meanwhile, sounding off on the nation's top leaders, as protests continued to grip the country president trump speaking to the nation's governors on a video teleconference derided them as weak and tell. Tell them. You have to arrest people to President's demand for tougher crackdown on protesters comes in the aftermath of another night of violent protests and dozens of American cities, Attorney General Bill Bar who, also on the video conference, Call Toll Governors they have to in his words dominate. The streets had control not react to crowds, urging them to go after troublemakers in Washington John Decker. Fox News daycares. What venues can reopen? Reopen this week in Ohio childcare facilities will have to limit classroom sizes increase cleaning and have staff members wear masks while venues can open today in events can permit the three hundred guests. People will not be able to congregate and must observe social distancing guidelines and drugmakers starting early trial for the world's first anybody treatment fork over nineteen pharmaceutical company. Eli Lilly said today that they are working with the antiviral drug rim. Rim Desert Aveer which has shown to be somewhat effective in fighting the corona virus. A treatment includes an antibody that fights these spike-shaped protein of the virus, and is made to block it from walking onto human cells on Wall Street the Dow the point four percent. That's one hundred five points the Nasdaq up point, seven percent at seventy points, and the S. and P., five hundred point five percent. That is fifteen. UTM Sports H League. Players have countered an owners proposal to return to play this season. The players plan calls for a one hundred fourteen game schedule deferred salaries in the event of a cancel postseason and the option for players to opt out of twenty twenty season over concerns of Corona virus, the owners plan calls for an eighty two game schedule and players, receiving a fraction of pro rated salaries I'm home. The Indians and Cavaliers Carmen Angelo newsradio WTI eleven hundred for more on today's top stories. Sign up for our daily newsletter W. T. A. M. dot com for complete details. Hey I'm like your son for absolute running northeast Ohio's most trusted roofing company. Absolute roofing licensed bonded work well with insurance companies. It, don't get any better than that. They're the pros, and when you have something as important as a roof, you do not want to turn that over to just anybody. Absolute roughing been doing it for years of done my rough again. They work well with insurance companies now whether you need a repair. Or an entire new rough DOT com. I'll give you the number just a minute. They'll come out you know. Take care all your needs. And you sure don't want mold and mildew with Aliki rough, Carl absolute roofing, now or water damage. To one, six, eight, nine, eight, fifteen, sixty, three, two, one, six, eight, nine, eight, fifteen, sixty, three. or go to absolute roofing DOT COM northeast Ohio's most trusted roofing company absolute roofing. Our. Full numbers are two one, six, five, seven hundred eleven, hundred, a two, hundred, six, five, seven, eight, one, one one. And, no intentions about talking about this. But I was given a tip yesterday. We have a little breaking news I'm going to need the texters. the texting program comes right into the studio. and My home. You can Texas to one zero, nine five brought to you by absolute roofing by the way. To one zero nine five. Now. I was tipped off on this I. DON'T WANNA, say! Bye! WHO Yesterday? And I just got another tip today. So, we actually can use you out there if you are in the Chagrin, falls area a little bit of breaking news here. You may want to pass the sign Mikhail and verified this story. But this come from two sources now. If you are in the Chagrin. Falls area I need your help. They are boarding up all the windows. In the businesses in Chagrin falls as we speak. I. Did read a story this morning about Chagrin falls boarding up windows, so I haven't printed out in front of you, but it just is to stores currently. But I have to look into that. So If you're in that area, and that is true or not true, could you text us at two one zero? Nine five to one, zero, nine five. we talked about this briefly yesterday. Carmen. Could you read the the laws and the rules and looting? and. Businesses. Yep Rioting. Simple riding is a misdemeanor punishable by six months in jail and a thousand dollar fine. Aggravated rioting is at least eight fifth degree felony with six to twelve months in jail, and it stepped up to six to eighteen months in jail. If it's a fourth degree felony Lou looting. Falls under the burglary statute as breaking and entering punishable by two to ten years as a felony, one and six months as a misdemeanor one. So what can you get for looting looting? You could get up to ten years at falls under the burglary. Statute is breaking and entering. Punishable by two to ten. As a felony bowl. Then people that are looting. How come they're not getting up to ten years? Number one yeah. You gotta cop them, and then they got to face justice. If it's if it's looting trip, and it's a first offense for somebody. You know what they're going to get. They're probably going to get eighteen months in jail. I hate to tell you that. But that's unfortunately the society. Have you have throughout all this? Have you heard of anybody being arrested for looting? We have heard yes. Reports of people being arrested for looting vandalism for inciting violence inducing panic. Those are some of the charges now. Those who were arrested for looting. And obviously if they're on tape, and they're carrying things out of businesses downtown, they could get ten years in prison, but that's highly highly doubtful. And these businesses do have cameras. Vast majority so? Yeah and many of these crimes were caught on camera by people who whipped out their phones. Some just text in a two one, zero, nine, five ready by absolute roofing. Tell them not to board their windows. but to load their guns. Trip Mott's just inform me. We have to take a call from a man and chagrin falls Jim. Jim You're on. You. Big Fan, how are you? Thank you, Jim, thank you. I I live in Chagrin. Falls I just pulled down main street, and I heard that story of everything boarded up. I'm just turning on and I. See Phoenix is boarded up then there's a John Roberts. Beauty Salon Frank. boarded up. Everything else looks wide open. Still I'm going down. Those are just two little stores right at the. Beginning of Main Street now. Everything else looks wide. Open starbucks slide up and. popcorn shop I'm coming up on that. That looks perfect and wide open. No boards across the street is White Magnolia, which is like a furniture play. Theft boarded up. On the first floor now I'm continuing up. Loop. Sites Open. Howard hand everything's Open. That's driving Yours truly is wide open. I think there's a jewelry store. Just that's about it so. Joseph makes has boards boarded up. others are all wide open That's A. Visit chagrined jewelry store. It's called the sported up. Off. Then, yeah, there's across the street. There are about two or three businesses ordered up. I won't say seventy five per cent fifty to seventy five percent still white. I? Think there. Jim Why in your opinion, why do you think chagrin falls is boarding businesses? I. I think the main thing is i. I heard. From around the neighborhood that I think there is as tomorrow, they're going to hold some kind of A. I I'm not saying protest, but like a meeting about this in. And I think maybe that's the thing that's. Making people nervous I. Don't know I can't tell you. I drove by would mirror in the apple store was completely ordered up. Last said I just went down the street. Day. Yeah so so roughly not to put words in your mouth, but immigrant falls right now. Maybe thirty forty percent of the businesses are boarded up. I think that's fair so far I. think that's. Jim I appreciate it very much. Okay. Thank you, thank you. You're Intel, which is. This twenty twenty. Twenty. What country is this United States of America? We'll be back one hundred. And our full numbers era to one six, five seven hundred eleven, hundred to one, six, five, seven, eight, one one. the corona virus is over just listen to the media. Corona viruses gone. So I. Guess You don't have to practice social distancing anymore or anything like that because the coronavirus is gone, right? Yeah if not, it's going to be gone November fourth. Medias reporting on. It's gone. It's one store three days of our. For Niagara no longer exists according the media, yes. WHO's I Stan? Stan, you're near. How you doing thanks for taking my call I just want to let them say something like the younger. Would you take about this? I'm a sixty four year old white man. Okay, White Male! You know what bottom line if George Floyd never committed a crime, he would have never got arrested okay. That's one thing and none of this would be going on right now. Martin Luther King was an educated man when he protested in the sixties. He does for equality okay. Okay these people today. They're not protesting for equality there. Protesting for special treatment an handouts. Okay, you know what they'll give anybody a student loan today. Tell these people to go get a student loan. Learn something and get a job. It's not rocket science. Thank you. Thank you for the phone call? One thing I will about George for you're you're? You're totally wrong, okay? What happened to George Floyd? June happen to anybody in this country. If, he committed a crime. He should have been arrested. He shouldn't have had his head neck knelt on. would a cop smiling a video camera? A phone or whoever took the video of it was just. That's absurd. What happened to that guy? Come Out? We all got to admit that. What you commit a crime or not. I mean. The only time an officer should even approach. Kneeling on somebody like that is you have to? With strain, somebody and your life, the officers life is at risk. That would be the only way that procedure would take place. The video I saw I. Don't there's no way to an I'm a big supporter of the police. There's no way to defend that COP with that COP. That cop needs to go to jail. So I I don't want to hear about if he didn't commit a crime or anything like that that that's that's just not the way you handle a situation like that. Truly on justifiable. Sickening. WHO's next ed? Ed You're on the air at. Hey guys. Listen to you all the time like new since I like the baby. I'm sixty nine right now. Anyway. Great Show as usual I wanted to tell you about Mike. Palencia and I went to school. The mccollough would and died sixty nine. When I got drafted for Vietnam, he was we used to call him Dumbo and make fun of him and leave this up pretty interesting kid, but. As. The years have gone by Kinda. Learn to respect him and I have one question. I always ask him this about every five years when I see him. Why aren't you running for Mayor of Cleveland? And that's the one thing we lack is leadership. He can have all the great laws on the books. You can have guns and bullets in the guns, and you can have a great police force. Force, but if you don't have somebody at the top backing things up and pulling the trigger I mean as far as policy goes with a good mayor. We could have had no no riots. No nothing this week. It was like the RNC we had. The streets lined with forces. Please everything and it was you know it was done the right way and that you know somebody did it right? So Anyway, find out why Mike is into Republican or Independent. Get him to run. You got the power yeah. All right, thank you, that's that's a great thing for the phone call. That's it create point all these years. I mean poetic is an upfront guy. He's been a politician, basically his whole entire life. I wonder why he's never ran for mayor. That is a great question because I think I'm not a big fan of democratic politicians. But I. Think Poland sick would be a great mayor. He loves the city. I wonder why he'd never did run for mayor, you know. He was the Cleveland City Council president for several years back in the nineties, maybe early two thousands, and maybe he was trying to get his feet wet, engaged things and That may have been a stepping stone for him, and he probably just said now. That's not for me. Yeah! Well, there's a Lotta politics in May in being the mayor of Cleveland. Big Business runs the mayor of Cleveland Yes sir. That's the way and I don't think poetic is. Going to listen to this, that's a good point. I let's go to Kiowa News, and then and on the other side news. We'll take your phone calls the phone. Numbers are two one six, five seven hundred eleven hundred I just thought of it. Yeah, point six, Not GonNa let big business run them as mayor. That's true. That's probably didn't run. Here's Kyle with the news. It's three thirty three downtown, Cleveland and Ohio City quiet after a weekend of unrest city officials, extending a curfew for those areas through tomorrow night to prevent further damage from protests that stemmed from George. Floyd's death in Minneapolis RTA. Buses are being stopped at West Twenty Fifth Street in the Tracy Metro campus because of the curfew. More than five dozen people face charges this week after being charged. Charged in connection with the violent protests in Cleveland, police say at least sixty six people were arrested Saturday evening for charges include aggravated rioting, vandalism and curfew violations and eight year old boy in critical condition after being shot on Cleveland's east side this afternoon. Officers got the call from shots fired in the area of East Ninety Fourth Street around one thirty. Minnesota Attorney General. Keith Ellison promising to. To look at George Void case from a new perspective on MSNBC Ellison, said he will pursue charges to the greatest extent that the law allows as he is now in charge of the case and former VP Joe Biden, now ten points ahead of president trump and a new survey according to the ABC News Washington. Post poll fifty three percent of those polls at eight for Biden while only. Only forty three percent said they'd vote for trump. You're three news forecast from the Mr. Hero Burger Weather Center. Here's Jason Fraser. We're GONNA warm up today to the Seventies. Dip Down to the fifties tonight and see a mix of Sun and clouds throughout today, and then for tomorrow there's a slight chance of seeing some rainshowers develop. This report is brought to you by Bob Evans Eleven hundred. All right phone numbers zero, two, one, six, five, seven hundred eleven, hundred to one, six, five, seven, eight, one, one one one. I just like to play this on every Sunday from nine to noon. mornings from nine to noon and Yeah I. Lot of people don't listen on Sundays. But yesterday we had Cleveland City Councilman Michael Points. Con Not I like to play this one more time for you because I think it was. some news. That really hasn't gotten that much publicity. Cleveland City Councilman Michael Points. It was at the protest Saturday in Cleveland. And listen to what he had to say. Because it's very very very interesting. Take a listen hear. The videos speak for themselves. You could see the projectiles coming from the crowd being thrown at the police, they were standing behind protesters doing that. They W- they wanted to incite a riot. They wanted to 'cause. They wanted they wanted the protesters to get hurt. They wanted the police let me say that they wanted to police the hurt the protesters. That's what they want. Dad. They wanted those little kids like they wanted. Those little kids hurt. They wanted those grandma's hurts. They wanted those grandpas this was this was sickening. They want they. They wanted blood. I Lakeside Avenue. That's what they wanted and thank God. Enough of those protesters were able to get out of there as fast as they could. Because of not, there would have been blood in the street would have been little children, and they would have been pointing fingers at the Cleveland. Police, department you know the pigs pigs dead. Look with the pigs, okay? Cleveland City Councilman Michael, points, yesterday and I with yesterday morning on wwl am and I think he makes an excellent point there in This is the point that I was making yesterday. There's nothing wrong with protesting. mean. That's part of the United States That's in our constitution. Protesting is, there's nothing wrong with it. I mean some of the protest you agree with some you disagree with, but I mean you've you've all been in favor of certain protests over the years? No matter what it was, but The people. That are causing all the problems. Looting businesses burning down businesses smashing their windows in most cases are not the protesters. They're thugs. They're terrorists. Whatever name you WANNA put on them. And they're coming there to take advantage of the protests. They're not coming there for a protest. When the protesters coming to protest not to do damage, there's two different. Maybe more than two, but there's two different groups of people there. There's people that are actually there for a cause. and not to do any damage or any harm. They WANNA be heard. Their protests. And, then there's people that take advantage of that situation and start the trouble, and that's what Cleveland. City Councilman Michael Poetic Point out yesterday. Those worth the protesters doing that polemic was an eyewitness. That's his opinion. He was act the protest he slot. And I. That's brilliant by Michael Poetic and I think that message should be passed around more with the media. But. I can't speak for the media that's. That's just an absolute brilliant point that points brought up. Just say phone numbers are. Two one, six five seven hundred eleven hundred, who's next, Jim. Jim Doing. Good Hey, I don't know how true this is. Maybe Karma check I knew it or something, but I heard these rioters or whatever you WANNA call them. Some of them come from different cities. It's an organization an organization that they actually get paid to do this and the more damage they do like set things on fire. They get more money. Now this is what I heard I. Don't know I know maybe like I, said maybe common, or another caller might know something about this, but that's what I heard. Land is pretty crazy man. Right, but thank you. Thank you. into this whole an Carmen, this is more important If you can text the text them text there Texas, and if you could find out, okay all right. The city of Aurora. As just used their snow plow trucks to block the entrance of Aurora farms all right. I'll call the Aurora Police Department. You can find that. See if you could find out. As quickly as possible. If that is true or not all right, I'll call them right now. Right. WHO's next? Floor up there. That'd be. Katie Katie you're the Air Katie. Bob. KNOB you're near. By from Peninsula yes on the air. You know good point. You brought up about Mike Plenty of that. He was there and himself at the test the witness, then after dealing with him in years Cleveland business owner. He's exactly the type of mayor that we do need because he listens to everyone. So, he's that type of person that can bring those efficient public services like good roads and utilities to the businesses in the community to encourage them to stay in business here and and encouraging businesses to open. In Our future growth, so yeah, Mike! For Mayor. I thank you yeah I. Somebody brought that up earlier caller. in the caller, said Wonder why Palencia. Has Never Run for mayor of Cleveland. That is an excellent point because I think councilman Michael Plavsic would have made a great mayor. I'm just not sure he wanted to. listen to big business because big business basically runs the mayor's office. Hey. I'm lecturer Asana for more tash financial retirement wealth planning. David's been doing for over twenty years over twenty years fixed index the nuit. He's this great way. Listen to me closely because it's a free. Kotla free appointment. This is a great way to protect your retirement money, but at the same time make money, and you even avoid probate court with these days. So. If you got retirement money, you're planning for retirement or you are retired. com more tash now. Eight seven seven gains for you, the number four, the letter U. Eight seven seven games for you or go to more tash, financial that I Let's take a break here and then we'll come back and see what Carmen found now. The that's drew about Aurora hundred. Oh my God I mean. So? I just got a text from somebody and they said Carmen talk to your police, but there are two big snow plow trucks blocking one of the entrance to Aurora farms right now. city snow plows. Plow trucks. and. There's no snow in the forecast. trip. I would take the word of those texters that had been texting in. I've been on the phone for the past six minutes with. The Aurora a police department and they keep trying to attract someone down finally they put me through the chiefs office and I got his voicemail. The dispatchers could not tell me if that was the case and our next caller Tom from south. Euclid about legacy villages, beechwood using plows. That was yesterday you. WanNa talk to Tom. Tom Your airtime. Yeah, Hey Mike how you don't. Take Cedar Road every day to work and this morning. When I was having to work, they just had the same setup all coned off and they had You know the plow trucks in back in the cone so. I, don't know if they're still there or not but. What the Hell is going on. I'm sorry I missed that. I mean what the Hell is going on. well I was out the brunch yesterday with the family when I was driving home. Stop the speedway owner of the speedway dome in the South Cops told him to look out for any suspicious activity and the call. Call Him if they saw anything he was asking me. What traded I come from that I see anything. I don't know it's just the Times I guess. I mean I feel just as bad for that man in. Minnesota's everybody else does captured. Never breathe another breath of free air. But what they're doing is wrong. It's not the way to handle it. Yeah, I thank you. For the Info, somebody just in and said just drove past Aurora farms. The main entrance has three police SUV's. The secondary entrance is blocked by city snowplows. I'd take I'd take these texters at their word trip. I mean these are all coming from different numbers. It here. You don't WanNa be Annika A. and I'm not talking about the COP. That killed George Void. That cop needs to go to jail. But here with all this going on. You don't want the cops to handle this. You want them to just sit back and watch what's going on? They can't. They can't. They got to be proactive. Yes Yes. I mean we pay a lot of tax dollars, don't we? Yes. Okay, go to your job. We're not GONNA Bitch. But do your job right? Don't kneel on somebody's neck. Do. Your job, right. See that particular cop in Minneapolis. Really. Set this country back a long way. Because that ninety nine percent of the cops do not act that way. Even though there's part of the media that once you and part of the population wants you to believe that ninety nine percent of cops don't act that way. King. COPS get a little aggressive I've had it happened with me in my lifetime. I've already told the stories. Yes cops can get aggressive. And yes, there are bad cops just like there are bad doctors. Bad everything fact, it was so funny. Rush actually quoted my service Sandal today without using my name. Have you guys heard that earlier? I did not hear that. What did he say? How do you call? In every profession. There's in every profession. And then, and then he named the exact professions that I named get. There's even bad talk show host. So and I've been saying that for years. Rush said today. There's bad in every profession. You're not going to eliminate bad. You'RE NOT GONNA. Let eliminate crime. You'RE NOT GOING TO ELIMINATE RACISM YOU'RE NOT GONNA eliminate child abuse. You're not. You'RE NOT GONNA eliminate drugs. Your kick it in the ASS. But you surely can eliminate it. That's human nature. That's just the way some people are. Some people are born criminals. That's just the way it is I mean. Do you ever know a family that had? Good upbringing. And say there's four kids in the family and three of them. Three of the kids are just perfect Mary children. Great jobs help the community. Church going and then the fourth kid. As spent ten years in jail already eight different times now. No family like that. We all do, don't we? Okay, that's just human nature. Nothing to do with the parents. They got four kids. Three are perfect. Ones Imbecile. Parents into anything wrong. That's just human nature. The way things happen. So you're never going to eliminate one hundred percent of anything. Anything. We. We try to stop two things in this country since the beginning of time, drugs and prostitution. How have we done with either? One of those failed miserably. Just just. A matter of fact, it's a fact of life. You're never going to eliminate racism. You're never gonNA. Eliminate Crime. You're never going to eliminate drug use, but you surely can kick it in the ASS. And that COP IN MINNESOTA. Sent, it's two thousand and twenty. He sent set racism back. Fifty years. What he did. What he did was absolutely positively ridiculous. That man needs to go to jail for the rest of his wife. That basically was murder. especially. With George Floyd, being handcuffed. And already restrained. That was big. That's murder. George Floyd was no threat at that time. My correct or not, yes. Still shakes the makes me. Shake my head, just the visual thinking of it. He wasn't going anywhere he was. He was on the ground I. Mean it wasn't going to get up and start Darden for the. Any independent autopsy results were released today and clearly stated that's against an independent autopsy, but they stated that George floor died from fixation to the neck and back compression impression. The, autopsy Chemo again. I'm sorry. What say. George Floyd died of asphyxiation, brought on by neck and back compression. and. That's what the autopsy says now. When I Did the independent autopsy says. The family. What's the difference between an autopsy? An independent autopsy family and attorney Benjamin crump had this autopsy conducted because they don't believe any autopsy that the medical personnel in that county. They wouldn't believe those results. They wanted their own autopsy done to make certain. He died from what he died from. So then you're. You're basically saying you can't trust the coroner's office YEP. That's that's. Kinda Benjamin. CRUMP said No. We're going to have a third party. Do this autopsy. This kyle know what's going on with Aurora firearms, and did you pass it on to and all that? Yeah I. let them know about Sheeran Falls I. let them know about Aurora farms here in just a second. Night. Amateur Jerusalem four window, nation and window nation as a deal right now where listening to meet police closely. Okay, they have deferred payments for two full years. If you need windows and what a great day to air the house out, okay by opening the windows and you got bad windows. You can't get them open. Or you just need them replaced. Deferred payments for two full years. If you get windows from window, nation now and up the fifty percent off any style win whether it's one window or a house, a window whole house windows. It doesn't matter. you qualify. No payments for two full years they've been deferred colwin donation now, eight, six, six, nine, thousand, nation, eight, six, six, nine, hundred, eighteen, or go to window nation DOT, com who's next. Own Be John. You're in the air. Yeah I Here some of these people talking about. Cars coming in for other places Saturday night I get off work. So eleven eleven fifteen. Go up seventy seven go across four ninety on my way home from four ninety. Where it hits ninety. Two, hundred and seventeenth. Best eight carloads I mean carloads. People from Michigan and I'm thinking. You know the yeah. They're heading back West but. I mean what are they doing just traveling around? Stirred up, then go on to the next place. You! Know that that really bucking. I thought man. You know like. You can't get enough. Stuff started in your own city. With the wake people. Up Right now. And then you get these outside influences. Come in, stir things up even more so yeah and. Not that's my two cents. Is Carmen? There's thank you. I was car. I'm back. Ed You. Talk to your police they sent me through to the chiefs voicemail. The dispatchers are not allowed to confirm or disseminate any information, and they sent me to the chiefs voicemail, so waiting for the chiefs to call me back. There's no officer in charge. On the site right now and they've no I. Just I just need. Yesterday said. We can't give that to you that she's going to have to give it to you. So I'm going to I I have heard in in Maybe cost. Chagrin falls and find out what's going there also during the news. Break here coming up, but KYRA couple cars would outta town plates. would. have been detained I've heard that also so if you can find out if if that's true with weapons in them and Chagrin, falls. Yeah all right so I. I. I know she grinned. Falls is boarding up their businesses. the windows of their businesses as we speak. We had a caller say about he drove right down. The Strip and Chagrin falls there, and he said about thirty percent of the businesses. have their windows boarded up already? else texted and said there's a whole. There's a big truck their full of plywood and it looks like other businesses are going to follow suit there. It tripped regarding the people who were arrested. Find out what's going on there police you got. An arrest go ahead the arrests in Cleveland Sixty six people were arrested and I was notified that twenty five percent of the people arrested were from outside the state of Ohio from Saturday's events. Yeah and I was told that the same thing in its fires percentage, but it want the other way would i? What I was told is most of the people that were arrested were from Cleveland. Still the fact that you got a quarter of them, that's that's Kinda. Makes you a little bit uneasy? They'll something, but the reason person told me that is that it says please don't just blame it on outsiders. The majority of the looters and the rioters were clevelanders. Absolutely, so you know it just can't be blamed on outsiders. No, it's just I ninety five percents kind of big number. Twenty, five seventy five percents, even a bigger larger number yesterday's. Here's. The new. Four the city of Cleveland working to clarify curfew orders across town, officials say residents who live within the curfew zone of the central business, district and market district in Ohio city should know it runs from now until eight PM. Tomorrow they're allowed to leave their homes to walk their pets or get food, but should stay inside. Otherwise, residents need to show proper identification. If they're traveling. There are no volunteer cleanup efforts during the curfew, a teenager drowning after the. The violent protests in Cleveland over the weekend police say the seventeen year old jumped into the Cuyahoga, river around midnight Saturday and was found Sunday afternoon by firefighters. Police haven't released the teens name. The death is under investigation concerns over possible violence and protests spreading across northeast Ohio. Make the main thing is I heard from around the neighborhood tomorrow. They're going to hold some kind of a I I'm not saying a protest, but like a meeting about their sitting. And I think maybe that's that's the thing that's making people nervous from Jim. A caller into the trip show this afternoon and Chagrin falls reports of multiple businesses boarding up their windows and doors surface this after issues in downtown, Cleveland Malls like a war of farms also in North East. Wow, so taking measures to close down or deter violence, the debate over white supremacy and police brutality, extending to rush limbaugh as he taught with the host of New York City's The breakfast club about the death of George Ford and the nation's reactions. Russia was asked what the president should do in the wake the violence during protests. It's simple matter of understanding. He's president of everybody here. And trying to quell these these moments of unrest is something that would be really really was advantage in the meantime. White House Press Secretary Kaley. mcenaney says. President trump is demanding action to stop violent protests around the US telling reporters that governors must do more to quell violence. The family of George Floyd has completed an independently done autopsy report says Foy died of asphyxiation, suffered by pressure to his neck and back examiner, who completed the report, says that compression cut off blood, two floyds brain, and the weight on his back made it near impossible breathe. The Minneapolis quarters report had previously. Previously, stated, Floyd had pre existing conditions that had been be factor in his death and riots, protests, Kobe, nineteen and now hurricane season. It's officially begun today. It's expected to be a busy won the national oceanic atmosphere administration expect as many as nineteen named storms this year including up to ten hurricanes. If that happens, this will be the fifth straight year of above average storm activity on Wall Street the Dow currently point three percent. That's ninety one points. The Nasdaq got point six percent at sixty two points, and the S. and P., five hundred point four percent that is eleven points. Am Sports Major. League players have countered an owners proposal return play this season. The players plan calls for a one hundred fourteen game scheduled deferred salaries in the event of a canceled postseason, and the option for players to opt out of a twenty twenty season over concerns of Corona virus. The owners plan calls for an eighty two game schedule and players, receiving a fraction of pro rated salaries. I'm home of the Indians am cavaliers Carmen Angelo newsradio WT. Am Eleven hundred? He could traffic and weather together mornings and afternoons. He Levin hundred. So I got all the Info. Somebody pulled the permit. chagrin falls. To have some type of rally there tomorrow. That rally has been postponed. But they are still. Thinking people will show up. So Chagrin falls taking all the precautions. lot of different precautions going on. I don't know if we can get anybody on from. Chagrin falls well I. Just got off the phone with Sheeran Falls Police Department regarding that report of two cars without a state plates. That were pulled over and weapons were found, and the dispatcher told me that did not happen the rally that was set for tomorrow as you said Rally for justice a gentleman by the. The name of chase was going to put that on. He has cancelled that now. Chagrin falls said there may have been reports in neighboring Bainbridge of these cars that you had cited before the last break trip, so she sent me to the sheriff's department, which dispatches for Bainbridge, and I asked her, and she said Nope. Nothing like that has gone on there, either so that's where we stand. But we do have somebody lined for with an update on Aurora farms and Mike. Mike. Hi Mike how you doing. I'm over here in. Just in front of the Farms and get ready to pass it again. There's two entrances to Aurora farms one stop play and one before to stop play. He stance without the stoplight has to bicknell snowfalls blocking it. and then when you go to the stoplight, you look to the right in the parking lot. There's two or more cruisers and the facing position facing out forty three Position like they're waiting for somebody to arrive. And I'm passing the farms again as we speak. and. Farms is open. There's people going in and out. of now there's street cruisers all lined up together. phasing out forty three. Okay right to. Mart. And one of the entrances is black with city snowplows. too big orange barricades and two snowfalls with the plows. Okay! And we're not. We don't have any snow in the forecast that we. Took my car show in seventy three degrees. I'm getting ready to go run in my short, so that's all. Thank you. Thank you for the influence. Thank you. And thank you for the phone call. Thank you very much. Like I said. We had no intentions of talking about this today. Did we know? nope. Is Your head spinning I know I asked week? Yeah. I'm still trying to figure out WHO ANTIFA is. It is a left wing militant group. That's pretty. I I went to school at a Antifa the Carl. Yes, you told me that. Yes, I have nothing to do with her right. No! No. left-wing militant group. What is ANTIFA. I mean I don't WanNa sound like a dummy here, but I am in a lot of areas. I admit that. That's why I think such a good talk show host. Because I. I'll admit when I don't know something. Rather than trying to make it up like a lot of people do and sound like a fool. What is Antifa me? Looking at up right now. In. A political protest movement comprising. Autonomous Groups affiliated by their militant opposition to fascism and other forms of extreme right wing ideology. That's what Antifa means. Sagan a political protest movement, comprising autonomous groups affiliated by their militant opposition to fascism and other forms of extreme right wing ideology. I still don't know what it means. Shows groups that don't like the right wing. Conservative. They're conservative, far left wing. So You you don't like their right wing. You don't like the right wing. Don't like the left wing. The left wing don't like the right wing. Can't you take care of that through voting? That's how this country was founded trip. Yes. Or, do you have to burn and loot businesses? We saw quite clearly over the weekend. It's burning and looting businesses. Because we got to make sure we don't call the people that are burning and looting businesses protesters because people are legitimately protesting. Yes, but also people are legitimately looting and rioting on purpose. And they have nothing to do with the protest. Showing up. No connection to the peaceful protesters and wreaking havoc on various cities throughout the this country, and we're going to have Kelly candle on coming up here in a couple of minutes trip. She owns colossal cupcakes at. He's fifth in Euclid and her storefront was devastated Saturday. WHAT'S HAVOC HAVOC? Wreaking havoc wreaking havoc, doing damage havoc have. US! As all that's have I said have instead of havoc that he's taking. Hock in my backyard. To have ox. Pretty Flintstone at the HAMMOCK. I have acas is is is very comfortable they are. Mines white sort of a flowered covered colored. Yeah, yes. Comfy. Again till you fall out of it. Don't fall asleep. Have you ever fallen out of a havoc? Yes, I believe it or not. Bit I think everybody has the. Hit but when I sit in a have, I can go so close to the ground. When I fall out, it doesn't really matter. So fats droops to the ground. Going to put some cinder blocks that are. We. Don't you think it's about time? Though. That the police. In a national guard start going after these writers in these looters. Absolutely I mean it should have been. It should have been done hearer. Saturday and I don't want to get on that soapbox again. But. What are they not going after the protesters, the protesters are fine. The protesters have a cost. And I don't blame him one bit, but the writers in the looters need to be dealt with an arrested. And unfortunately there were no officers are no national guard down there on Saturday very few office. What are we would say? What are we waiting for? Get ask our lovely mayor right and the police chief I got I gotta ask a Livia. Levin hundred. All right if you're on the phone lines hang on Carmen We have a guest on the hotline. Yes, we do Kelly Canda owner of colossal cupcakes on Euclid, avenue. Kelly's business was ravaged unfortunately on Saturday Kelly welcome to the show. Your might serve Asano. Having me. Kelly Kelly, can you it? Where's your business located exactly? I am downtown right on Euclid. an east sex and a storefront of six feet arcade. and. You were open Saturday, right. I was I was open. and. When things got a little bit crazy. I went to close I close when it actually I was closed when it when it all began. Can you take what happened from there? So I you know as far as I had heard the protests. we're very peaceful, and while done early and I I knew that stuff started to get a little bit crazy by the Justice Center, so I wasn't. I wasn't personally concerned. I live right next door downtown to my sore. and so I was home. You know went home for the Indian. a friend called and said she. saw that lots of groups were sort of rushing towards. You know the Euclid. Area my street and just wanted to give me a heads up so i. I ran over there for I can even get you know outside from L. Elevator to my apartment, it was. A neighbor was coming into building, he said, do not go out there and I said well I have to get you know I had four kids working for me to college kids into high school kids. You know summer jobs and. So he he helped me get over there. Just because you know it was pushing through, it was smokey and people were just. Already in a violent state so when? I got to the store. You know. It was already locked up I got in and. I heard windows already breaking, so I knew that was coming. To stay away from the windows are whole storefront. Is Glass Windows I didn't know our store is right at that intersection on east sex and Euclid so I didn't know you know. We have a lot of chandeliers and light and television screens. If dry make it look closed due I. You know diner. They more inclined I just didn't know. What state to prepare for before I could even sort of make that decision with the lights on off I heard almost got gunshot, and it took the first window out. The glass blew past me. at that point Ed said you know. Get back in the bathrooms. The staff that was that was on I had assumed. They didn't realize we were in there so I stayed there to say. Hey, you know thinking at that moment now. The other window they were. Trying to break in two to it, they were the cares and at every. At every. Piece of glass it wasn't down. They were trying to break it down. So I kinda just thought. Maybe you know. They just seem I was here. They didn't want to hurt anyone and they would. Stop being so violent. When they started coming through the window I said you know hey guys like I'm in here and some of them immediately cards at me on I had they had a huge cement bricks. They started throwing at me. Paint Gallons Luckily, they didn't have good aim. I mean just turned that that when I ran and had. Rushed to the bathroom and. Shut the door behind me. Lock ourselves in and I. You know we were on the phone with Steph stature nine one one. While we listened to them just absolutely. Destroyed a store. finally Kelly physically we're going to. Do you harm to also. Yes, they I mean they tried I. had they throw? Objects at me. Then they. Jumped on the counter and ran ran towards the I had to run to the bathroom. Kids beat up with the Staffan. Locks door behind me. Wow Wow how much damage did they destroy your entire business? Yes. There is So much damage that you know it's been such a great outpouring of support from the community. Everyone customers, people I don't know just typed up to help peanut. The. No one can be in there. It's just so much. There's so much glass and I'm talking, you know. We had a huge eight-foot fakery clay case display case. That was pretty much the whole picture I guess when you walk in. The UCLA shattered that so well that. If you combat alone, covered the store and glass and then tables. They shattered the window. It's not really a safe place for anyone at Tufts professional to empty out at this point. Kelly, only you. Just one question, you could jump in coming. Kellyanne I'm just a little confused, and I hope you understand my question at question here, sort of a a sarcastic one. What did you do wrong that? They wanted to attack you and your business? What did you do wrong? I did nothing wrong that. That's where the. I two ignorance of this sort of played in. It's just instead of focusing on. You know George Floyd. They brought attention to small businesses and. here I am with you. It's been about me. It's not about. small businesses. It's about you know. Improving our system and doing that peacefully. Instead you know you had some bad apples. Come in and just. ruined. Kelly, how long were you in the bathroom? How long did it take for you guys to realize okay? We're possibly safe now. While the problem was, he weren't they were sending a lot because. to get us and they had a hard time getting to us because they had to work their way down the street, they were set up already. to kind of I guess. Meet the riots down by playhouse that they're trying to get through to get and it has about ten minutes. So. You know done. They had they had kind of chased me. It's bathroom show at first you know they're pounding, even police. I! Wasn't you know some of this act? We weren't sure with really bad and when we did the wives and they said listen. We're GONNA WE'RE GONNA. Stand in front of the store. Grab Uneven. You know you have about thirty seconds you WanNa grabbing and let's go. And I was frozen I'm I WANNA? Leave it was. Half, namely the store expose and. You know. All the stuff and he goes. You're not doing our place before like go This is at as he took you know. The team took I removed. They like. Sit around and got us out of there. I looked back and people are jumping into windows so I. It was sickening just to. You know. Obviously, it's taken me years. The bill nye business it's. Everything's May south. To leave, it was just. It was so. I felt very just. You know that it was yeah, so helpless and. I wanted to say. I wanted to say. I couldn't leave at and I just knew it was. This was something out of my it was. It was so shocking I. You know that night. I sat there again. I live next door and. They were people in my building. They had broken siding with dad the lobby they were already now breaking into our building which is six six to eight. The wendover shattered in the lobby so I. The only thing I can do is sit in my building and I listened My windows are in Uber. I listened for hours to hear bombs going off and glass breaking and. Just destruction it sounded like a war was going on outside Euclid, and it was I was in such shock from what I had just been a part of, and it wasn't ending. It was just it went on for hours and hours and I just wanted you. My family lives in. On the west side and I just wanted to get out of downtown I I didn't know. WHERE THEY GONNA! You know fires where starting. They were my parking garage underneath my building I had heard that they were trying to get into the parking garage. If they like that on fire as building, even save. So. I'm a dog person and I just wanted to get. My my dogs are real real nervous at the sound I honestly afraid that if I tried to drive out of the city, you know the car would get a tap 'cause. That's what was going on. Everyone's like you're better off just trying to say there so I waited it out. And laid it out through the night. Kelly before we let you go very quickly here. How long will it take you to repair everything and reopen your business roughly? I'm told about coupons so. For Missing Article Peak, this is our you know. We do a of ice cream unique ice cream sweet so that. We get excited and wait for this every year. It's our time fee then. For the savage right now I do have a new store opening and northbound side in a couple of weeks in the West is a downtown will not be reopened unfortunately, probably into summer. Good luck to you, Kelly and God bless you and thank you for being on the air today. That will. Thank you thank you. Thank you! Like, I said that poor girl. What did she do wrong? Think about all this. What the hell. Why in the hell was her business? And her attacked why? Now you think those are the protesters hell? No, those were not the protesters. This is the point I tried to make yesterday. I know a lot of us weren't listening yesterday. But there's protesters. And then there's terrorists thugs criminals whatever it is you. WanNa call them. Those are not the protesters. In. Most cases those were the people that came to take advantage of the protest. That's a shame. Here's Kyle what the knows. It's four thirty six Cleveland representative proposing making racism a public health crisis statewide. Juanita Brent says in a statement that across Ohio there are racial disparities in housing healthcare in the workforce. She signed a resolution today that would create a glossary of terms and definitions, concerning racism asserted as public health crisis and more, if passed will become the first of its kind in Ohio this. To the riots took place over the weekend. The family of George Void has completed independently done autopsy report says died of asphyxiation sustained by pressure to his neck in bag. This contradicts Minneapolis. Coroner's report that Floyd died of previous health conditions while being detained by police white. House Press Secretary Kelly mcenaney says president trump is demanding action to stop violent protests around the US. She told reporters that governors must do more to quell violence, mcenaney, said quote. Lawless anarchy and chaos must not be allowed to continue, and in the meantime. An ABC News Washington. Washington Post poll has former. Vp Joe Biden up ten points on the president. Fifty three to forty three percent survey also showed it as decrease in the president's approval rating, which was down eight points here three news forecast from the universal windows. Direct Weather Center. Here's Jason Fraser we're GonNa warm out today to the seventies, and then down to the fifties tonight, and see a mix of Sun and clouds throughout today, and then for tomorrow there's a slight chance of seeing some rainshowers developed. This report is brought to you by Bob Evans Eleven hundred. If. You're on the phone line. Hang on, we'll get to you but We got a carmen. Explain what we're doing here. Well for the last two weeks trip, we've been taking registrants for a one thousand dollar Grand Prize gifts gift card a petit garden centers as part of W T. am eleven hundred open up your yard again and the past fourteen days we've taken registrants and they all one fifty dollar. Potato Garden Centre Gift Cards. While today we are going to pull a grand prize winner for one thousand dollars Td Garden Centers Gift Card as part of the opening up your yard again contest with Petty Garden Centers. Right before we do that it's welcome to the owner of AJ petite to the trip show who's providing the one thousand dollar? Gift Card to help. Redo your yard. Two Thousand Dollars AJ go along way. No. You know absolutely. I don't do a lot of beautify yard and. Got An area that you wanted to touch up, it'll. It'll take care of that without any problem. So we've been registering people and they've been winning fifty dollar gift cards for the last over a coup last month, and a half, or so and the names of the fifty dollar gift card goes into a hat, and we've pulled one lucky winner to win a thousand dollars Aj. It's so much fun. That's just that's just awesome so and can't to deceive the winner. We'll go to that winter and just a second, but petits garden centers What is there like fifty seven of them now AJ. How many is there I just? So. North. Serving Our community about can. It's. It's amazing Aj You, guys have done such a great job and I, I don't care what you need. Petite Guidance Center has it of everything. You could possibly need as far as your yard patio. Furniture I mean. Give us an idea. What petits guidance center will supply for for people. I. Mean You mentioned Patio Furniture beautiful flowers so yard. We're getting perennial season now, so I mean. All the criminals are in bloom of course. beautiful shrubs order Denner, looking gorgeous now roses are looking beautiful right now. you and everything else. You need pottery and beautiful things for inside the home, so if you haven't been out, it's really worth the trip. That's really one of the best garden centers in the country. And petits has their own nursery, so you grow your own stuff? I'm correct in that right. Yeah. We grow ninety percent of plants. We saw so. We've got the funds out. Madison and Perry and we've got. A beautiful. Greenhouse in Columbia station so everything that you get is really coming from right here in northeast Ohio and. You know it makes a huge difference when it comes to quality when it comes to how their plans to perform in the yard. It's Yeah, it's nothing like it. I. Know I've thank you a million times I wanNA take a million in one for all the work you do. For the charities that I'm involved in IT Hilton Garden Inn Twins Berg. I WANNA thank. TD Garden Centers Aj for that work. Also thank you very much. Thank you you such a great job with that in the good work that is just it's awesome. We're happy to be part of. We got the thousand dollar winner I. GotTa pull the name I gotTa pull the name. Of The box here? Are Seth Drum Roll. And the winner is Scott Vivica of Medina Scott. A one thousand dollar Petit Garden Centers Gift Card as part of the opening up yard again. CONTEST IN INDIA TRIPP Scott joins the show right now. Scott Congratulations Thank you very much. That is awesome. The. You got the owner of TV garden centers on the phone line Scott. Thank him. Hey. I WanNa thank you very much. I'M GONNA I have no idea what. I'M GONNA. Do I just have a daughter son-in-law? Whole Open I think you're gonNA. Help help them out later this month with at. All, that's terrific. Congratulations on winning, and and that'll be awesome and we'll be there to help you all along. That's awesome. Thank you so much. Thank you very much. Yes, congratulations, AJ, good job as always petite garden centers, and thank you for the time and Thank you for the contest. It was a cool contests for lots of people AJ. Thank you very much. That's awesome. Thank you trip and congratulations. Thank you thank you. Thank Scott Vivica. Thousand Dollar winner of a gift card from these garden centers that it's great. He's going to use that for his son and daughter-in-law. That's outstanding. And like AJ, said. To Scott. Do you know Scott goes any city I've no idea how I'm going to do. The yard or anything AJ and the people that potatoes garden centers. We'll give you ideas and help you out. Oh, yeah, that can help plot it all out without a doubt. All right. If you're on the phone lines, hang on, we'll get to your. Thank you AJ. Petite, thank you. Petite Garden Center and thank you for charity work to Potato Garden Centers. Also thank you guys. Thank you, AJ. Here's a little a hundred. Yeah, it's Great you can hear bill wills every morning five to nine. That's a great point. He just brought up. listening to bill wills every morning. Right here on W.. T. a. m. from five in the morning until nine. You think they'll be baseball this year. Tell you one thing after seeing what the players now what the players are proposing. Now. One hundred fourteen game schedule. I don't know how they could do that trip. I. Seven inning doubleheaders. Yeah and who wants to destroy the game like that I. Don't WanNa. See Major League Baseball play seventy games. I'm sorry. Rule changes. Already have driven me away from sports, especially football and basketball. Baseball starting to do it. Can't break up. A double play can't run into catcher. You can't throw inside attentional. Walk your point, the first base All these rule changes. Were they doing now? What relief pitchers they face! What three batters to house I? Know I've gotTA face. A minimum amount of banners just can't have a lefty lefty situation. You May as well take the records and their and throw them out the window because when you change the sport. Just like quarterbacks today. How do you? How do you compare a quarterback today in the NFL? To a quarterback in the sixty seventies, eighties or even ninety S. When the referee! Touch a quarterback today. You can't even get near a quarterback today. It's so much easier to be an NFL quarterback today than ever before, and that's why you got. Average quarterbacks that look like superstars and it's not because of their ability. It's because of the rule changes. In most cases. Absolutely positively. The NBA literally to me is unwatchable. It's like watching. A bunch of guys play in the backyard. They shoot forty four dollars all day long, and there's absolutely no defense none. None, notre words ever been spoken. I mean. Go ahead. They don't even press the guy bringing up the ball anymore. Come up which takes time off the shot clock. which makes it harder to run your offense? That was one of the main reasons, not only turnovers. Yes, turnovers, when you press as part of it but also. Shortens the shot clock because it takes you longer to get the ball up the court. When you're pressed like that at least guarded. They. Don't the NBA to me is literally unwatchable. It's unwatchable I can't even it'd be. It's a different sport. Yeah you talk about the lack of defense trip. I. I must say I was blessed to be able to see the Lakers with showtime. Larry Bird. Those teams from the Celtics the Pistons, and then Jordan came on later, and those guys played the Game Hard Heck Austin. Carr was telling you a story I can't remember the specifics about the first time he drove to the whole on. Was it will? Know Texture just brought yet. Yes, it was wilt chamberlain. A texter just brought up a great point. What everything going on? WHO THE HELL WANNA? Go downtown anyway. And the Indians I, believe would have been playing the royals yesterday. If memory serves correctly, they would have been Hollywood you. Would you want to go downtown? Absolutely not. You imagine living down there. You imagine owning a business down there. Only businesses are gonNA leave downtown now. Yeah. Well Kelly the Kelly cancer. The owner colossal cupcakes minutes ago. She said she wanted to get out of downtown, but she feared if she did get in her car that. She would have been attacked in her vehicle. No! I'm talking about how many businesses going to leave permanently. Oh, with yes I. I know one in particular, which will remain nameless, but a friend of mine he's he's had enough. I mean is. that. It's. This is why you need to be on the side of the police. The good police some talked about not the guy. That killed George. Floyd. NOT THAT GUY! The Ninety, eight ninety nine percent of cops that are good. You need to be on their side because they need to do their job, so you can enjoy your life. So, that criminals don't run where you go in your life and this and that. It's. The. please. You gotta be on the side of the police. Do you realize how important they are and then for cities and suburbs to cut their the police staff? Because of budget. That should be the last you ever should cut. In fact, there should be a tax payer wall whether you live in the city or a suburb. Is Long as you're paying taxes. They're not allowed. To cut the police force. I mean it's it's a total joke. What is going on in this country? A total joke? I mean making the police the bad guys. This COP Minneapolis this guy should go to jail for the rest of his life. Let me be perfectly clear. That was murder what he did to George Floyd. There's no I'm not sticking up for that COP. That cop needs to go to jail for the rest of his life. But Oh my God. You WanNa. Punish the good cops because of that. You don't realize how you need the police. I. Mean even gun owners. And we're all most of US gun owners. Yeah, there's no doubt about it, okay. So many tries to get your house. They're probably GONNA. Have a headache because you're gonNA owner. But. Even gun owners I mean. You. You need the police. It just. I mean look mall stores neighborhoods traveling like like like the texture said right now if there was no corona virus going on, would you go down to an Indian game? Or if it was brown season. Absolutely not singling out the Indians or to cavs. Would you go down downtown right now? Not taking my kid down there risking anything of course done. trip. This is a perfect segue. We have a friend of Billy Morris that has called him. The show retired police, officer and identify him only Sean. Sean you're on what trip good afternoon Sean? Hey, Thanks for having me on. Its Own. Yep absolutely you guys I'm GonNa Bring some history for you, but this this exact same thing is happening in Cleveland twice okay. It happened twenty five years ago to two officers. Who arrested a guy that was high cocaine and the same thing trip. The officer in in Minneapolis shouldn't go to jail. Listen, it's called. The sticks. All right when you were arrested. And you have other conditions. And your place on your stomach or chest with your hands behind your back. There's a lot of medical things that occurred I've by far from the medical expert but positional. A real it really exist, so it was packers Leeann Gibson with the officer's name created a lot of problems twenty five years ago, and they were never charged, and that gentleman bag in police custody. It happened five years ago. Were you recall Teasha Anderson and the two officers? or in front of a grand jury, and they weren't charged either because she had copd and she had other medical things going on like once again, she was restrained and faced out the biggest thing. You have to understand policy in Minneapolis. What she did with his knee. Is Policy. It's a less lethal form of restraint. Okay if you can talk, you can breathe if you can move your head back and forth like he can't. In that video you can breed. The issue remains okay. Why why so much time on the ground is there? Is there something in a book that calls for that? I mean. Do you know that true I've never seen that in in my twenty five years? I've never seen it in a book about when you should sit somebody up when you shouldn't. It's a great question, but you know I. Don't know of that is an issue now? The fact that there was two other officers there. Yeah was on his back, clearly created pressure. Everybody wants to talk about the guy with his knee. His hand is in his pocket. His badge was a skew. You remember seeing that. Do you think he put that on sideways the started day? Trip I know you support the police big time in my career I don't know of any police officer and I'm going to go out on a limb and say the same thing for those guys in Minneapolis I don't know anybody wakes up in the morning. Actually I hope I get in a situation where somebody? I received the medal. Here wasn't a twenty twelve for not shooting and killing a bad guy. Right, yes, things can be done in a in a safe manner. That guy was under arrest. Can't anybody look back and say Whoa? Gosh if he wouldn't have paced, pass the fake twenty, and if he would've complied and obviously, there was a reason that he's handcuffed and placed face down. He clearly wasn't complying. Now I'm not trying to get anybody to Hook Care, but I'm telling you that this really exist positional officiation and it happened here place in Cleveland. Sean I appreciate the information and and and and thank you very much. I gotta get the news here. Though thank you, okay. You're welcome well Yeah Again. With I'm not a COP, not a doctor. I know what I saw. And what I saw. I didn't like and I'm a big supporter of the police, the big supporter of the police. In my opinion, I that. That COP AND MINNEAPOLIS There's no way I can stick up for that. Yeah, I can't agree with John. Now Sean was a cop. Yeah Sean knows much more than myself retirement. But. Probably the best way out of this for me. is to say. Kyle. Yes sir. Doodo news already. got. It's five O. Five downtown. Cleveland and Ohio City quiet after a weekend of unrest city officials, extending curfew for those areas threat least eight PM. Tomorrow night to prevent further damage from protests that stemmed from George Floyd's death in Minneapolis. More than five dozen people are facing judges this week after being charged in connection with the protests, police say an in all about sixty six people were arrested Saturday evening charges that include aggravated rioting, vandalism and curfew violations three news now reporting that none of the arrests made. Out of states in the meantime, macy, Jepsen has more on the cleanup efforts around the city took hours to destroy with bats and bricks. We'll take weeks to repair. Some stores may never recovered now shuttered again after months of Covid nineteen closures, but people who live in downtown Cleveland showed up in force Sunday to begin the cleanup. Understand, why happened? Let's say John Still Citizen here. Swept Glass in boarded up windows saw torched cars towed, and with the curfew in place city, employees and members of the Cleveland. Alliance will continue the work asking volunteers to stay home for their safety. I may see Jackson W. M. News the White House press. Secretary Kelly Magoni. Says President Trump is demanding action to stop violent protests around the US president has made clear that what we are seeing on. America's streets is unacceptable. Violence looting anarchy lawlessness are not to be tolerated. She told reporters that governors must do more to quell the violence in better news, daycares and wedding venues reopened this week in Ohio childcare facilities. We'll have to limit classroom sizes increased cleaning and have staff members wear masks then us can open today and events can permanent the three hundred guests. People will not be able to congregate and must observe social distancing and drugmakers are starting early twelve for the world's first anybody treatment for Kobe. Nineteen pharmaceutical company Ellie Eli Lilly. Pardon said today that they are working. Working with the antiviral drug desert, which has shown to be somewhat effective in the fighting the corona virus, the treatment include antibody that fights the spike shape protein of the virus in his made to block it from locking into human cells on Wall Street the Dow finishing up point three percent. That's ninety one points to twenty, five, four, seventy, five, the Nasdaq finishing up point six percent that is sixty two points to ninety, five, fifty, two, and the S&P five hundred, but as you know about point four percent. That's eleven points to thirty fifty five. Out of UTM Sports Major. League players have countered an owners proposal to return to play this season. The players plan calls for a one hundred fourteen game schedule deferred salaries in the event of a cancel postseason and the option for players to opt out of a twenty twenty season over concerns of Corona virus. The owners plan calls for an eighty two game schedule players receiving a fraction of pro rated salaries. I'm home of the Indians Cavaliers Carmen Angelo newsradio WT am eleven hundred. Get traffic and weather together mornings and afternoons eleven hundred. I'd fall. Numbers there to one six five seven hundred eleven, hundred to one, six, five, seven, eight, one, one one one. Sorry. We've been a little detained. Let's take a phone call or to WHO's, next Ken. Ken Yes. With love. High pleasure talking to you You're looking at Antiga. I went on Google and for some reason whenever you ask him questions about Antiga Pizza, it sends it to same homepage someone it might be diverted so I went down and kept looking state MSN. They all go to the same home. They don't answer any questions. Hi, found a Jerusalem paper and it seemed to give you more information. They were of like anti with the Palestinians it's mtpa kind of obsolete from that. And I went deeper into India paper and Colin Kaepernick financing anybody who gets cloud over here in the protests. He's longing. And I thought it was she gains. Cleveland when police found that phone, and he said it directed when they do the bottles, one of the guys drafted. it seems like there is somebody backing these guys. Is Yeah I. Mean You? You don't know what to believe today I. mean whether it's George Soros or whoever it may be i. mean you read all this stuff? This person's back in this person's back in that. You know we we. We've gotten text today that they're staying in local hotels. Here in Northeast Ohio. I, you know. It's a little confusing today I will admit it at least I'm confused. You know if you look up mugshots on them, they do give you some pictures and shows young women and young guys. And there's a couple of stories what they did. That's how they got mugshots, but I tried to find African, American participation blitz goes homepage Any participation it goes to this homepage. I don't think Google ever. You know. It doesn't do it on other sites when I asked about. A number of people in Vietnam or you know, give you a couple of options that try to look up. What a couple of words in front of it, and it goes the same page. The phone call, thank you very much. Thank you very much. Let me go to. The next caller WHO'S NEXT JD? Jd you're in the air. All right so number one. I would love it if someone from W. T. A.. M. would contract. We have a gigantic building downtown Cleveland of FBI people. and. based on all your callers including the councilman that has said. People are behind. This and Washington is declared Antiga as terrorists. I would love it if somebody from WTI, em would get a hold of a director from FBI to get on and tell them are I'm sorry, ask them. What do you know about the people that are coming in from out of state to our state? They've Dave committed the. The FBI should be involved. What do we know about this? What's infiltrations number two? When all the Neera sorry, the mayors were contacted. About the advanced. Protest quote unquote that was going to happen and asked his permission and Jackson said well as long as it's peaceful. Why didn't he say well okay, but I'm going to have to tell you if it's over one hundred people that are congregated. We're going to have to shut it down because we have to shut churches down. We have to shut. Country Music places down anything over one hundred people. We have to shut it down. I'M GONNA. Tell you that's going to happen and all those people that refuse us. They're going to be arrested. They're going to be charged five hundred dollars ten days in jail, Yada Yada, Yada. Why wouldn't have done that? And so you're? You're violating the. Code. Nineteen Code Nineteen Law. We have on right now. Anyway. Kinda Kariba, that's what I. Know that. That is in a roundabout way of thank you for the phone. Call in a roundabout way. That's an excellent point. You have the right to protest in this country. But. as far as the criminals go, and the people burning places down and stuff like that. The governor is also got a social distancing. E? The the last caller brought up also to the amount of people that can gather. A. Attend. Like I don't know I, think they would they raise it for party centers to one, hundred, hundred, fifty, three, hundred, three, hundred, hundred, yeah, three, hundred, three hundred, but they have to be six feet apart. Yes. They ought to be properly socially distant with the three hundred so. I, don't know how many halls are going to put three hundred people in there. What social distancing! It's literally almost impossible for most places. So say hall holds. Four or five hundred. Well if you got to put the people six feet apart, even though you're allowed three hundred, you can't get three hundred there. It's just like restaurants. If they hold to honored. With social distancing they're only. Really going to have about one hundred in there. If, yeah, maybe as low as eighty. So. What all the social distancing rules and regulations I don't know if you WANNA call them laws or anything. How is pro testing allowed right now? That's basically what the caller said. Yeah, apparently, it's just as easy as getting the permit. and. The social distance out the window, so we can gather to burn buildings, protests and everything else, but I can't go to Cedar Point. One hundred okay more have A. You can have a wedding. For my grandmother. This right? Well, the caller just brought that up. That's an excellent point. Think about it all right. We'll take your phone calls. I'm sorry that I know. This show is screwed up in. Hardly it's pretty much unlistenable with the interruptions we have. We've been on for four minutes. We gotta take a break eleven hundred. Yeah the other thing, too you know. A lot of these alerts that the cops find out about in certain areas and malls and stuff like that. Are All over social media. Yet social media. Takes Down Your Political opinions, medical opinions and the Corona virus. All the time. Why do they allow? These people to gather in publicize. On social media then why don't they take those down? Out seems like if those are backed or published by grouped, leans a little bit left. It's okay, not a problem. Yeah, but if you're in the middle of the road, are you a little bit right bit more conservative? Then it becomes an issue. My wife posted a pro-trump mean. Maybe about two three weeks ago. Within a couple of hours, it was gone. Well, we have a great instance trip about two weeks ago south. If you recall, he said Hey, get this video. It's on Youtube of Dr Judy Mike. Events get it and record it before they take it down and Gone Lo and behold. We got here. We were able to record. It and Youtube took the thing down about two hours after we put it on audio. War, why do you? Why do you think they won't do that? What these publicizing? Big Rallies and stuff like that at malls, the turn into just complete chaos. Why don't they take those down? There 'cause I'm here there of the there of a similar belief. The people that operate the social media platforms I mean Mark Zuckerberg he's made it quite clear trip. We had a couple of Donald. Trump posts the past maybe eight months that when we put them up there we thought were grand slams, and three people shared at the one respectively and five people shared the other respectively which. Led Me to believe and when I told you let us all the believe that. Hey, we're being censored. I mean the the best thing I wanted. The best things I've heard recently was rush. Limbaugh say this last week about. About businesses. If you open your business prior to the shutdown, they would put you in jail right But if you burn down a business and Luda business, they don't do anything now. Scott for? Me What is happening? I don't know, and it's sad, because I've got an eleven year, old son and a ten year old daughter. I mean I'm all for the protesters. I don't care what you're protesting. That's up to you. Our constitution allows us to protest. A main okay I'm for that all right, but you don't burn down businesses like we had Kellyanne Kelly Kandeh WHO OWNED THE BUSINESS ON EAST SIXTH STREET IN DOWNTOWN CLEVELAND? They completely destroyed her business Saturday. and. They tried to hurt her. Heart her. And they tried to hurt her. What did she do as a business owner? Deserve that absolutely nothing. Maybe could ask Zach Zach read that question. Yes, acce- keeps. He keeps taxi. texting. As with the business owner did wrong. The last one was a good one Zach answer that question shoot US attacks. What did Kelly candle from? Colossal cupcakes do wrong. She. Just try to live the American dream. Readers Tex her. The first one was a picture of him standing with protesters. Where were you on Saturday? The next one is a picture of him. With protesters. I thought you believed in justice for all. Then, he latest one. Why do you keep focusing on the rioting and not the injustice towards blacks? He's not. He hasn't been listening because I focused on both exam. The one that's separated both. because. There's nothing wrong with the protestors. But the people riding. Should go to jail. For a long long time and the people looting, she go to jail, even longer and the people damaging businesses and smashing them. She go to jail, even longer than the other two groups and Y'all wrong with the protesters are fine. Everybody's got 'cause the protests. We're allowed to protest. The reason we're focusing on the other part of it is because they destroyed half the city. But that's one of the reasons. Zack's not a politician anymore because he doesn't understand that. And you also said George. Floyd. was murdered and had officer should spend the rest of his life in jail. Off of Zach didn't hear that now Zack. I've learned one thing about Zachary. He hears and debates what he wants to hear and the Bait. He told you you other than other than that. You know what he says. The Oh yeah. He told you could not hang up on Marcia Fudge. Illegal. Marcia Fudge is somebody. She's no different than you and me. She got smart with me. I hung up on her. And he said there was basically talk. You can't hang up on a congresswoman. Zach if I can't hang up on a congresswoman I guess Zach read believes in all men were not created equal. All people were not created equal. Waiting for him because we're all created equal. Who in the Hell is she? That's right. She any better to me that you pay her salary. Still, waiting on Dakota realize. I I've made a rule other than Palencia. I will not have a democratic politician on the air anymore. Understand I get. You gotTA points it onto punching guy! I said other. Let's just. Reiterate again. Me could you imagine meet the Baiting what Zach read right now. Zag Don't know what the Guy I. Don't know what day it is. I love him as a person's. Taste. Is a guy speaking of not not knowing what day it is. How about the mayor of Cleveland boy not a clue? How? How was the city prepared for Saturday? Not, even a little, not at all, and then you know what the mayor said. I watched them last night for a little bit. Better than some others. Yes, we did better in other major cities I do have a clip of the mayor. S Kelly candor that. That's Mike Simon that. We did better than some other cities. Did your clippings? Mayor. You wanted to play a clip periodical the news, so of course if we had it all over again, there's always some things we would do differently, but lead me Where we are now. We're in a much better position than we were yesterday. And, I think as you Ford. You'll find the Cleveland who come out of this. In much better position. We're a much better position. Than we were yesterday selected. Everything's swept up all right. Can you imagine living in downtown? Irene seriously I, mean you. Only businesses are leaving their right now. Planning a leaving there, yeah? I'm out to. As Zach. How did your war do when you were a councilman? Here's. How to do by the way I, don't think. A Little Goes Zach. Keep criticized another people man. You did a great job and your ward. Here's a Kyle News. It's five thirty five protests continue across Ohio in the wake of the death of George Floyd died last week in Minneapolis. Police custody for the fifth day, gathered for a peaceful protest outside the statehouse in Columbus and Cincinnati, meanwhile, thousands met on Fountain Square for March to the Hamilton County courthouse and here in Cleveland a curfew has been extended for a second night after protests erupted downtown more than five dozen people phase judges this week after being charged in connection with those violent protests in. In Cleveland Police say? At least sixty six people were arrested from Saturday, night for charges include aggravated rioting, vandalism and curfew violations. New reports claim that none of those arrested are from out of state and eight year old boy in critical condition after being shot on Cleveland's east side this afternoon officers got to call of shots fired in the area of East Ninety Fourth Street around one thirty Minnesota Attorney General Keith Ellison, promising to look at the George Boyd case from a New Perspective on. ON MSNBC Ellison said he will pursue charges to the greatest extent of law allows as he's now in charge of the case and former VP Joe Biden, now ten points ahead of president trump and a new survey, according to the ABC News Washington Post poll, fifty three percent of those polled said they would vote for Biden and only forty three percent said they would vote for trump here three. Three news forecast from Mr Hero Roman Burger Weather Center. Here's Betsy. Kling clouds are moving in and shower. Chances won't be far behind. We'll have some scattered rain around for the start of the day. Tuesday temps going to be in the fifties topping out in the low eighties in the afternoon with more scattered storms, hanging around this report is brought to you by all season S C dot Org. Amateur Asana for. North Ohio's most trusted roofing company latter rain this spring. Water damage. Mold Mildew needed repair. Need an entire new roof, absolute, roughing licensed and bonded. They've been doing it for years. They did my roof best whether you need a repair or an entire new, rough, residential or commercial call absolute roofing, the pros they work well with insurance companies also take what you need. Column Two one, six, eight, nine, eight, fifteen, sixty three. Two, one, six, eight, nine, eight, fifteen, sixty, three, or go to absolute roofing dot com absolute roofing, the best trust me. WHO's next? Tony? Tony. You're in the air. Negative goes. megadeal GONNA trip. Thank you! just left. CHAGRIN You said you wanted to report. And everybody got back to yet or not, but almost the entire east side of the square in the triangle. is almost mortared up. Almost the entire south side boarded up. And on the west side by half of it's done. Tons of plywood tons of people with circular saw. A lot of crews out there. Were walking by when are what's going down? and it's they're preparing, which is which is interesting so That's number. One number two is i. want to tell you heard about a guy. This morning on the radio was talking. His name is Vince Ellison. E. L. L. I. S. O. N., he has a book called. Iron Triangle DOT COM as website, but the books called the Iron Triangle, and to your point about why do. Some of the black community keep voting for Democrats win. The policies of the Democrats harmed the black community. This guy was on the radio going. It's because he educators, politicians and the ministry. Tells them what they want to hear and then tells them to Democrats and there's a reason behind that in this guy discussed it in his book. Called the Iron Triangle Self. Interest out there listening look I am. Triangle Book Dot Com. Take a read. I haven't done it yet, but The guy made a lot of sense and it's kind of scary. Okay thank you for the information. Thank you. Not only on the book venture falls and trip. What helps you grin falls is preparing for. That's unbelievable. Yeah, it's very unnerving as a matter of fact, Rachel from sales texted me some pictures of the square, and I have posted them at the Metro show, facebook page, and yet very very uneasy to look at and Chagrin falls of all places. Why don't they just put like four hundred cops there? Then that would be great. Unfortunately know from the suburbs and everything, and when people come in to try to riot and break in the businesses, they take care of them. People well other suburbs they've those are not those are not protesters now. Those are not people. This is the point I've been trying to make since yesterday show. Okay. That there's a difference between the rioters, the looters, the vandals, the terrorists and the protesters, the protesters at their harmless there for a cause. But other people would another agenda of looting. And smashing businesses for no reason. Joined the protesters, and then they all get lumped together. There's nothing I've tried to make this point for two days now. There's nothing wrong with the protesters. It's the criminals. Join him that need to be taken care of. And what might poetic told you the second time you had a on yesterday? When basically those protesters wanted innocent people that were standing in front of them, wanting their voices to be peacefully hurt those. Thugs those domestic terrorists wanted those people hurt. Can we get some great? Yeah hold on before you play Palencia who had on yesterday? Okay, Cleveland City, Councilman Michael, Palencia, Okay Hope. Zachary is listening because Zachary says he was at the protest in East too stupid to pick up on what POLENZ set. That Michael points it. was at the protests Saturday now take a listen what he says because I. Don't know why the media is all over this. Listen to what consummate Michael points at who was at the protest Saturday set. Take a listen. Videos speak for themselves. You could see the projectiles coming from the crowd being thrown at the police, they were standing behind protesters doing that. They wanted to incite Orion. They wanted to 'cause. They wanted. They wanted the protesters to get hurt. They wanted to police. Let me say that they wanted to police the hurt the protesters. That's what they want. They wanted those little kids like one of those little kids hurt. They wanted those Graham answers. They wanted those grants this was this was sickening day. Want they and they wanted blood I lakeside after you. That's what they wanted and thank God. Enough of those protesters were able to get out of there as fast as they could. Because of that there would have been blood in the street would have been little children, and they would have been pointing fingers at the Cleveland Police, department you know the pigs pigs dead the pigs debt, okay? Excellent point that Polenz, it brings up an excellent point and don't get too confused. I mean you know like Zachary this text and Carmen and stuff like this, okay? He, he's got no clue what's going on. No, no clue whatsoever, and he has no clue what I said I stuck up for the protesters yesterday they issue did. There's nothing wrong with the protesters. You're allowed to protest in this country. It's the criminals the join the protesters that have caused all the problems and those protesters got chased out. They were fearing for their safety. I mean we had a woman on What was her name? Kelly Kelly candidate. She owns colossal cupcakes I'm Euclid. They destroyed her business, would it why? And they try to. Do, what happened in Minneapolis? She makes cupcakes and they destroyed her business. Those are protesters. The protesters have nothing to do against a woman that owns a donut shop. A cupcake shop. But the criminals do. We won't. Why. Why would why would they attack and they attacked that woman? They were throwing bricks at her. She had the flea with the rest of employs back into the bathroom. Why. She didn't deserve. Any of no one deserves anything well. What did she do nothing the worst thing she did, she took out a permit to operate a business in live out her dream. And there's nothing wrong with that. I'm reading something here on TMZ. George Floyd had Thelton Hall in his system when he was killed died from a heart attack. The Hennigan Hennepin County Medical Examiner released. Toxicology findings. And said. George died from Cardio Pulmonary Arrest So Ironic, which complicated law enforcement subdural. Restraint and neck Russian of him and again that is critical because the report also says. This under how the injury occurred. They say George experienced a cardiopulmonary arrest well being restrained by law enforcement. And, other words, he suffered a heart attack while they're arresting in and that complicated their efforts to do them. But no one's GonNa believe that I'm not no one people are not going to believe that. And? That's why his family had that. Independent autopsy conducted which earlier today about ninety minutes ago it said he died from his fixation due to. Back and neck compression, but it does say lured. Floyd was on. died from heart. Attack says medical examiner. This is TMZ. Am Mike. For trips, restaurants strong, still open for lunch open for dinner. Right on route eighty two in the legend shopping center. They're great food at Your restaurant practice in social, distancing whether you want to eat site outside on the patio inside and the dining room or bar. Trips restaurant in strong so open for lunch open for dinner. Open for takeout, too. If you want to order food to go, take out A. Restaurant in strong Ville. Here's Olivia with six point nine FM. All right right back here. WAS THAT I? Had No idea we lost you for a second. But your bag old clips that. WHO's next Debbie. W Debbie. I first time caller. Thank you dig at first time referred. As you better stick the first time caller and leave the job absolute roping. ABSOLUTE ROOFING DOT COM. Did you hear about the promotion for Cleveland. They wanted to start. It was called undefeated. It was to promote visitors to come to Cleveland. Yes that was last week by destination Cleveland. Yes, right, right. Well we should print up some t shirts. visit cleaned when we've been defeated on the front and on the back we are better than other cities according to. This year mayor. And Al Gore's law. Mayor wait a minute Debbie Debbie. Wait are mayor said we did better than some other cities. Great, right? That's what I said. I'm. Better than other cities. We're not as bad also. Did you hear about the law? They want to make racism of public health hazard. But if you commit terrorism and loot. The Hollywood elite are financing bail for terrorists along with the protesters. How about that? Somebody has to and I appreciate the phone call. Thank you very much. Somebody has to explain that to me. How the police! The National Guard or whoever let people. Just smash businesses and Robin I I mean. Once. They're in that business. You could shoot them. and. There's already been business owners that have done that. Minneapolis. I don't get it how how they're. They're not gone after physically. I get it. Well that's what what I'm listening a little bit plus I'm I will say this because we gotta go to news pretty soon, but. I am really tired. You. Guys tired a little bit very little bit i. mean it was a long weekend? was. I mean We raised a lot of money for coats for kids Garnell Tony. Waiting for May twenty nine, that may thirty Saturday with the the benefit was just over at Hilton Garden Inn and twins, bird fur coats. Her kids may twenty ninth thirtieth to Friday and Saturday night WanNa thank Billy Mars I. WanNa to thank the ban chance on a thank Charles Guile Frank Wurley Billy Fisher Mike to Southgate Adrian Wolf. All performed the this last weekend. We had abolished. He'll gardening into insert. We raised a lot of money for coats for kids and we helped a lot of kids. You know that's outstanding. But I'm tired. Time to rest. Took a lot Outta me. The fifty fifty raffle was tremendous. We set another record. Is Unbelievable thirty two thousand. What a! What a weekend we had at the Hilton Garden Inn Tunes Burke Kiss. Just unbelievable. I mean we had three hundred people there each night? Food was great, many beef Wellington payment tremendous, and all went to a great cause coats for kids. So I WANNA. Thank Roger Green to Hilton. Garden Inn Twins Berg. I want to thank all the people that came. this weekend last weekend of just this Friday and Saturday. I mean Carmen did a great job. Set that a great job I did a great job. We're all tired though I mean it was. It was a long weekend. I mean, but it was worth at for coaster. Catch you know absolutely always is I want to thank governor dewine coach Your Kid's raised a lot of money, and we put coats a lot of coats on the back of needy kids. Thank you, governor, do I. I want to thank Acton for the Halibut. Thank. You Dr Amy Act and thank you coats, kids. What another successful benefit will be back eleven hundred. Right right back here on W. T. A.. M. Eleven hundred. It is w. t. a. m. u. eleven hundred right yes, sir. You, positive absolutely, it's been since nineteen ninety-six. South! Concur with Carmen in his correct. What is correct is W. TM eleven hundred. Could you say it right correctly, please? Todd W. T.. Am Eleven hundred? WTI. There are days we looked for it one more time WTA Amy Levin Hundred. So. There are days we look for stories right it everyday. And usually the story citizen right in the face, right? Today I found one all right. What did you think? I found the story of the president being whisked away to the bunker in the White House because the rioters, the domestic terrorists outside the White House in DC over the weekend. Also Joe Biden, you find that. I found the new protocols that are going to be taking place at Cedar Point when they opened up. Okay, you want me to give you one. You'll never find one. That is just absolutely unbelievable sure. One that I it's. Truly, what year is this twenty twenty? One. It doesn't take place in the United States yet. It tastes takes place in England. Are you ready for this? Go ahead. You've heard the corona virus right absolutely. In, England they have passed the law. Because of the coronavirus. I. I am I am being serious I read it on the Internet. Sewed has to be true. You can, Google. Having Sex In your home. Would someone different. From your household. is now illegal. Il- legal. In England. Doesn't surprise me. Not In the least. Doesn't surprise. You know all the things that we've heard. Especially over the last year. I mean that's. That's wrong. person should be able to. Be with whomever he or she wants. Let me. Read it to you at eleven thirty am on Monday. A change to a law, which introduces the band which bans to people from different households in England. Gathering Indoor private place during the lockdown. Okay during lockdown. So once. Once, everything's back to normal game on again. I. Don't I don't know. Or did you find it a little amazing? Yeah, it's it's it's out there. It's bizarre. But, it's not. It's not one of those stories that knocks me off my feet the only. Not Bizarre regulating sexual activity. That's not. How our lives have been regulated so much in the past three months. So. No nothing is bizarre. Nothing's out of the ordinary unfortunately I mean someone having their sexual rights so to speak taken away from them. What we've seen over the past ninety days is not shocking. Have you pulled the story up. I'm pulling it up right now. Let me read the headline Corona Virus. Sex during lockdown. What somebody outside of your household? Is Illegal from today. Outside your household. Sir Inside Your House. You're. Meeting your wife or husband corrects trip or or mate mates. Yes, part, LIFE PARTNER GET! In other words, you're single it. If. you go out. You meet a stranger. In a bar. You'll tell her to come over. From what I'm understanding, that's illegal. Sex Exeter. Yeah, that's a no go. That's an go. I haven't that is wholly unfair. That should not be on the books. Now asking you. This question is serious as a heart attack. Is that not a warm of communism. Yet Bulletin Bulletin without a doubt one hundred percent. They're going to take away our rights. You have the story. Yes, I do. Get. New Corona. Virus Laws in England and made it illegal for couples who live in different homes to have sex indoor's and stay overnight. The health protection regulations previously banned people leaving home without reasonable excuse, but the provision has been replaced by stringent curbs on where people can sleep and gathered together the law, which will be laid out in parliament. Monday says there is gathering when two or more people are present together in the same place in order to engage in any form of social interaction with each other or to undertake any other activity with each other. While the only thing that I'm a little confused with okay all right. Is. What is the punishment? I can't find that anywhere. Do you get a year in jail? Do you get two years of jail? Do you do twenty eight years like Jimmy, Damara? find. Your PP cutoff. What is the punishment? Please can arrest or fine people for breaking the law with the default penalty standing at I believe one hundred pounds in England. But do not have the power to check for violations inside properties. Now there's another can of worms. WHO's GonNa? WHO's GONNA enforce this? What do you do? Do you go to a bar and watch? Two perfect strangers meet up. And then. Determined that they are indeed strangers, and when they walk in the House to Peek in the window. And then burst in when they start seeing on the deal. I mean this is for real this. We're not making a joke here. One hundred percent legit. This. This is a law passed in England because of the coronavirus. Oh by the way we talked about it earlier today to. Those, the corona virus still exist. Haven't heard much of it since last, Monday? It's still out there. Because of what's going on? With the riots, the protesting the looting, the burning of cities. You haven't even heard about the coronavirus. It's not even trending anymore. Now it's all about the mayhem and the terrorists that are waging their chaos however. Carmen. You did give me a story car about the whole thing with a woman broke quarantine to have sex with her now ex boyfriend, numerous times, and ended up getting the virus, but was that an England or was that here? I was here, Wow! Wow! Well, she was feeling a little frisky. She had to get out good things. She wasn't England England trip. So in England gave her a hundred pounds. Yeah, she would find a hundred pounds I. believe that it's like squiggly L. before the one hundred the number one hundred I believe that's correct. I believe it is. Let's go to traffic. Here's Livia. Right back here on, w. t. a. m. e. eleven hundred who follows US tonight. Jets Lewis is part of the W. T. am eleven hundred talk force seven to ten? How come, the governor didn't talk today. He said he wasn't going to talk. On Monday last week. He did have an emergency news conference on Saturday when the national, guard was activated in Columbus He spoke Saturday afternoon, but he had no intentions of speaking today, and he made that known to us last week. I mean everything that's going on as far as the protesting the riots, the looting of businesses and stuff like that they're actually this would be a time for the governor to have a press conference, not just to The he's held press conferences about the coronavirus and really said nothing in those press conferences. Though the last few weeks I mean I I i. mean I thought today would be the perfect time for him to hold a press conference. Because of what is went on inner cities Oh without a doubt, and obviously he had that request Saturday night by Cla Mayor Frank Jackson to send in the National Guard to help out with everything that was going on also on Saturday, the National Guard in Columbus was activated because of the issues they had down there and trip. I WANNA point out there is a video on your facebook. While the Mike Tourists Sano show facebook wall of. Wouldn't it be the page the page? Yes, the might service Onnell show facebook page of a man paying a young African American kid money to go cause unrest in the neighborhood of short north in Columbus and I urge people to check out that video. It's absolutely appalling. He's literally taking bills out of his wallet, handed into this kid and directing him I. Don't tell him to go down to a park and start three picnic tables on fire, but you hear picnic three picnic tables clearly, and it just turned my stomach when I saw that video. Well. WHO videotaped it? I have to go over. The computer. Was Somebody in that neighborhood and it was posted. It was actually sent to the instant message page on the mitral Valve Sasha facebook page. But, but see here's I told you I have a master's degree in common sense. Not In business, not in science, not in any, but in common sense, right. So. How did they know the video? Apparently this guy had been handed money out to several kids and somebody just whipped out there. They saw what was going on whipped out their phone and they got video of this guy paying this young. African, American Kid who grabbed the money, then got on his bike and went down the street to cause some unrest a some sort. Sure. That's not fake news now. That is not fake news. As a matter of fact, I did a little digging and I actually called our former colleague. Karen, Kessler, who used to work here she lives in and around that area, and basically I mentioned some of the businesses that were in the video and she said those businesses are legit. That's that's our neighborhood down here and only then did I post it. All! Right I'm going to sell you set theater. Airframe. I am take the pen out of your. shoeing. Chew we've got a paddle. I'm going to sell steph drugs in the parking lot okay. Right You're standing like eight feet away. Yes, okay, go ahead I'm going to let you video it. I'm going to continue the transaction. Oh there were a lot of people around I'm sure this guy knew he was being videoed. I don't know how he could not no, he was being videoed, but this guy clearly doesn't care. I, mean you saw the people downtown? Wait a minute so I'm not challenging you on challenging the story. Okay, sure sure it's. It's credibility, so I'm GONNA pay somebody. To be. A terrorist of Vandal. You. I'M GONNA pay somebody okay. I could understand that you know there's. Accusations of that. Even from? George Soros isn't third wall. Yes, many many okay. But are you going to do it in public with other people around? At and somebody is standing just a few fee. You videoing it and you're going to continue saying what you're saying. The Guy Yeah, isn't that sort of defeat the purpose? I mean he clearly is throwing caution into the wind. He doesn't care. He doesn't defeating the purpose. Yes, but. These people have rocket science. Exactly. You know they don't care trip. All they want is for stuff to be. Vandalized. On Fire they don't care. But. You think drug dealers are rocket scientists know. But they're not going to do a drug transition in the middle of people videoing them true. True. I'm calling fake news and the story now it's not fake news. Trust me why. I'm calling completely fake news. That's a calm. I think that's a complete setup. Well it it possibly it, certainly it. There's a possibility it could be. But I mean if you're GonNa, do something like that. You don't want anybody to know because then what you're paying to have done. The credibility goes away. Yeah, I'm I'm of the belief. This guy I I I know you're confused. I want to go downtown and burned down buildings. I'm not going to announce it on the radio. Yeah, you're going to be discreet. Right I don't want anybody to know. Otherwise it defeats the purpose. And well this gentleman. I'm using that word loosely He did not take. That into consideration. He's there sidewalk shelling out? Tell you that's the first thing you would take into consideration to make sure no one else knows. Except the guy you're doing business with. As much the video again trip I mean it's like. It's almost as if he doesn't even know the cameras there. Despite the fact, there're probably fifteen people around. How. Close within about ten feet? I think I'm with you now. This can be as. Yeah. I'm going to. CALL NOT BE S. This is definitely be s because that is something. then. Why wouldn't George Solar George Soros? Just come out and say yeah. This is I paid all these people. Well he he is a fairly smart individual. This guy, but this doesn't have anything to do with smarts. This guy. Is Pretty, sharp in the area that he's dealing in by paying people to do his work, and to glorify the turning the the protest the other way. Do you follow what I'm trying to say and make it more severe? He's already pretty sharp in his area. Yeah, not do this publicly. Test me not that he did it publicly, but. You Watch the video, Seth, what do you think? Yeah? I'm with you that you would not do this around people and have the ability to be filmed when they're doing something like that. That's the last thing you would want. Like, we talked about it earlier. polenz pick that this was the greatest point and that one media person picked up on this. We had poetic yesterday plunged. Speakers talked other media people. He's talked to a lot of people. The people that came there to riot in downtown Cleveland, Saturday right What did what did point six say that? They stood behind the protesters. And started throwing. Objects at the police and different things like that right and Palencia said in his opinion, he wanted the put. Those people wanted the police to shoot wanted the protesters or Harn one of the protesters that they were in front of on purpose imagine if the police reacted to that and heard a woman or a kit. That's that's that's what those rioters wanted and forensic brought that up. We played the soundbites earlier. Absolutely horrible. I mean those. Those domestic terrorists are using those peaceful protesters as human shields. That's, but you're. You're missing the point. They didn't publicize that. No, no one knew they were coming. Similarly, everybody was caught off guard down there. Same would paying somebody to do that. You've defeated the purpose when you've done it publicly now. It is totally possible that video could have been taken. What out there guys knowledge? guy that I don't believe that I don't believe that all I believe that is true. I think it goes on. I'm not arguing that, but I think the video. You have complete fake news. Because if you were going to do that in your sharp, you would pull the guy side away from everybody here Buddy WanNa talk to you and you walk thirty forty feet away from everybody. Now it's just you and him, and you hand them money and say here. Go do this for me. That's how you handle. Something like that got your son. Cellphones, pointing at you and everything else. Especially in today's Day and age, everybody's filming everybody that. Yeah. And, if you look at this guy through as he's got his wallet out, he's walking around and he's looking. You know. He talks to a couple of kids than this last kid he comes across this last kid and he's almost like I. Don't WanNa say in zone or locked in, but he never looks at the person holding the camera I mean. This guy is offering more than one person. Excuse me. He's he's prepositioning more than one person well at the very beginning, you hear him talking to what appears to be two kids. There's no transaction there. And then a young man comes up. WHO's on a bike? The kid gets off the bike and this guy then peels off a couple out. How much money gives it to them? And you clearly hear him say three picnic tables down there or something to that fact and the kids the kid if he says, come on Y'all and they had dom gotta go. We gotta go to news we do. that was fake news I beg to differ. Will bring you real news with Kyle.

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Judge Gayle Williams-Byers Offers Tips For Promoting Your Well-Being

Jazzed About Work

39:35 min | 2 years ago

Judge Gayle Williams-Byers Offers Tips For Promoting Your Well-Being

"This podcast is brought to you by the school of leadership and public fares at Ohio University. Hi, everyone. I'm Bev Jones. And this is just about work where we talk about everything that might have an impact on your career. Today. We have a return guest south Euclid, Ohio municipal court judge Gail Williams buyers, and our topic today is how to promote your well. Being no matter how tough things are at work judge gale whose side gig is teaching other judges is finding ways to convince her colleagues that self care is not selfish. She says the judges have one of the toughest jobs in the world. Not only do they have the pressure of remaining in charge of people in difficult situations, but the kinds of horrible events that they hear about day after day can leave them suffering from what some call the carry us trauma. Judge Gaels message is that even people with the most challenging jobs can feel better and do better if they consciously manage their wellbeing, and she says that there are a lot of ways to do that. Our guest today is Gail Williams buyers. A prominent municipal court judge in south Euclid near Cleveland, Ohio judge gala also an old friend of mine, and we've known each other for many years since she was my intern a long time ago in Washington DC. In the summer of twenty seventeen at a national conference of the American judges association judge gale, and I let a workshop on the importance of work life balance. And we talked about how you can achieve that. The fact is though that I'd lectured my intern Gail on that topic. And I still wasn't sure that she was convinced, but but then judge gale became passionate at the conference. And since then she started teaching other judges about why self-care matters. So judge gale you were the chair that conference. What is it that caused you to decide to include topics like self care life balance in a national conference when other judges were talking about the law? Well, the first I want to say thank you for allowing me to address this audience on this important topic when as the chair of the American judges associations education committee, we began thinking about topics that were important for judges. We usually think about the hard or tangible skill sets we want to. In part with them or to home. What I noticed? However was that there's so many of my colleagues that were struggling emotionally I'm dealing with challenging cases day in and day out. It poured into their personal lives is the thing you talked about, but not too much, and you certainly didn't address at a national conference. And I thought that maybe we reached the time the point went. It was okay to bring in someone with a high level skill set to talk to us about how best to manage some of the challenging experiences. We have in our daily lives, professionally and personally. Well, I know that many judges and actually lawyers in a lot of situations are struggling more than the average person with issues related to everything from alcoholism to just intense stress from very difficult situations, but there's some people like you who have always just been a work Hollick at even before you were a judge. We did have those conversations like what you have to do to keep your balance and keep healthy. It wasn't an overnight turnaround. It it took a while. But I think around the time of that conference. I started seeing a real difference. And I've noticed you're you're doing some things differently. What are the kind of things you've done to to get some balance in some self care into your own routines. You are so correct in that I've been so negligent of myself, and even those I care about for so many years and had poured myself into my career and other things that it really took having experienced that for such a long period of time that those old talks we would have about work life balance came to revisit me and also some of those basics small things you can do on an incremental level to make a difference in your own life for me. It began noticing after a while that in my community domestic violence had become the number one violent crime in my community hearing store. Stories regularly about the trauma and the experiences of victims it after a while is impossible to not carry some of it with you. And I had to find a way to manage the stress of making tough decisions while remaining unbiased and very open to all the parties while also not freeing myself at the same time. I noticed my relationships on particularly with my husband, and my son they were suffering. I hadn't given enough time and effort to them. And so for me it began with just really small changes small things like staying up a little bit longer to have a meaningful conversation with my spouse, making sure I was paying attention in meeting, my son Ida, I when we spoke in really caring about what happened that developed into spending and finding ways to spend more meaningful time with my spouse. And I am elated with how we've. Managed to commit to a new rule in our marriage, which allows us to take some time together on a consistent but incremental basis, so what's that rule? We call it the ninety day rule and the ninety day rule that my husband, and I have adopted is that every ninety days we take some kind of trip or vacation or we disconnect just the two of us. It can be for a week. It can be for few days. It can be for a day. But it is an absolute hard and fast rule that we've committed to and over the past year and a half it has worked amazingly. Now do have to say a lot of credit is due to you for having encouraged us and me in particular to do a little bit more than what I had been doing to care for myself and by extension the relationships around me and by actually implementing that it has made a world of difference. So what kind of trip? Have you done? And how do you how to to people who have sometimes different interests, negotiate and agree on something? That's fun for everybody. Well, that's the joy of being a lawyer is that you learn the art of negotiation and some things that may not immediately strike you as interesting if you can just allow yourself the opportunity to be to buy in you just never know where the journey or the adventurous gonna take you. And so the way we mapped it was every ninety days throughout a year totals approximately four trips or four experiences and since the two of us he'll pick to an I'll pick to the rule is you can't say no to the other person. Oh, so you take turns. And that person has absolute control the person who's turn. It is indeed a good idea. Indeed. And even though it may be something that I'm never thought of so one of the the experiences we had was going to Maine from. Ohio and my husband wanted to drive to Maine, which is a lengthy drive, but it was his trip, and it was his turn. And although I would have prefer to do something different. Because this was the rule, and this is how we've agreed too. We drove to Maine. It was the most scenic ride and beautiful ride ever instead of being in a plane for short period of time, we actually bonded quite a bit during the time of that. Right. We talked about everything under the sun even things we thought didn't matter anymore and had a beautiful time. We wail watched for the first time in our marriage and canoe together of that really does sound like fun. No-one drown. Oh, good. Good. Well, I think that sounds like a wonderful program. But the fact is there are lots of ways some of them simpler and easier to build into your life. I absolutely agree starting to take care of yourself. I absolutely agree. And so when I think about what I do each day, and what it is that I can do to help maintain some health in my own relationships in my own life. I readily in regularly rely on what I call the stop method. And so when I'm sometimes in a hearing or even in the midst of a case, and I feel an anxious or overwhelmed or I feel like my focus is waning. And I can't bring it back, and and pay attention to what's going on, particularly if the matter is overly complex, and I'm thinking it's going to last longer than I anticipated and I've got a thousand other things on my to do list. I now employ was caught a stop method where I pause wherever I am. And no matter what's going on. I pause. I take a breath a really deep breath, and I observe what is going on and then proceed so the first Methodist. Just pause or to stop to take a breath. To observe all. That's going. One listening sorta to the breadth that I'm taking taking in my environment. It really helps. So regulate breathing and to refocus, and then I can proceed with whatever's going on hearing or listening to individuals or understanding the statements or even the trauma of other individuals and it allows me to get back in the game. So that fits within a kind of a tool we used way back in that conference last year we trying to. Organiz ways of pausing or being mindful or are just kind of regaining some feeling of being centered and what we talked about. And and and it seemed to work pretty well with judges, of course, judges and lawyers elect to have everything organized, and we had that points in a chart and so forth, but we broke wellbeing into being in good shape in four different realms of your being of yourself. You wanna tell us a little bit about what those four realms are. And how each of them can be approached therefore realms which are interconnected realms that support wellbeing. It adjudge adopter an architect and these form Rams. I think are so amazingly important to be practised both together. And separately. There's the spiritual realm, and that spiritual round focuses on your purpose, and your meaning your values and your system of values. Maybe you call it your morals your connection to what you might see as a higher being or connections to things other than yourself. You're the type of courage you display, and and though the way in which you operate in this realm, which is also connected to the physical ram, which is the next one. The physical realm involves exactly what you were mentioning just physical wellbeing exercise fitness nutrition obtaining enough rest and sleep which I will admit so many of us neglect to our own detriment because we believe that rest is for the week. It's actually a Mark of the strong next is the emotional realm, and that realm deals with your relationships. How? How you are operating in those relationships how you recognize or appreciate your feelings. What coping mechanisms you've developed to make sure that your relationships are healthy, how you express joy and compassion fear, and how you manage stress, which is inescapable in this line of business. And finally that leads to the mental realm that mental round that helps you to as you mentioned earlier deal with the thoughts sorts of sort of reframing, the thoughts and those feelings talking to yourself particularly during anxious or stressful times or moments your perception of events as they are occurring, which has a direct impact on that mental ram. And how healthy that is your brain health your level of curiosity. And how mindful you are or engaging in mindfulness. Techniques to keep you focused in engaged. Those four rounds to spiritual physical emotional and mental rounds are all interconnected but separately they do have important roles on their own. Well, I love your idea of a stop our pause. I think that really sums up a terrific way for people to kind of enter the mindset of well being now, let's talk about this for Rome's and think about how. Any of these four realms offers a way to experience the stop, and what I found in just working with coyotes, and so forth is some people didn't want to talk about their spiritual life or other kinds of things that they'd rather do something the dealing with their body. Other people like to talk about emotions and what I notice is. It doesn't really matter. How you enter this area of wellbeing awareness, do whatever's easiest and most inhabitable for you. So let's take your idea of the stop. Let's start with the kind of the spiritual value. Well, how would you do a a stop by entering your spiritual sense? So weren't me while in the spiritual realm, I would find some place peaceful, preferably where I could really focus on those things that are meaningful to me my values. And my purpose understanding, and maybe even reflecting a bit on some of the decisions I've made or how I will make a decision and really just taking in a deep breath and appreciating or understanding all that goes into balance saying not just what's to come. But what has happened and the meaning of all of that after I've done that. I would just relax in that feeling. Just staying there. Not allowing other thoughts to sort of inter. But to really think about okay, I'm gonna make a decision that doesn't perhaps impact me but impact someone else, and that's the idea of thinking or dealing with things that transcend, you you know, it causes greater than yourself. And then I'll proceed in that quiet assurance of knowing that I've sort of. Settled myself spiritually with whatever's to come because I also understand in that process that at any given time I can be thrown a curve ball and curve balls are unsettling for most. But for those that are prepared and have found a way to sort of get themselves in this group of appreciating their situation. I don't think that is disturbing. We'll be back with Bev after this. Brief message. Are you ready to make a difference in the world, the Voinovich school of leadership and public affairs had Ohio University can give you the skills to do just that the school offers a multidisciplinary approach where public policy environmental studies in entrepreneurship come together to educate. Tomorrow's leaders. Learn more about the master's in public administration or environmental studies by visiting Ohio dot EDU that slash Voinovich school. So for some people entering the spiritual wellm to manage well being a bit. It could be a prayer for some people meditation technique in which you repeat a phrase a mantra or are something that just has meaning to a word like peace or forgiveness and repetitive way that could be a way to very quickly implemented. Stop and really. Slow things down and refresh yourself, but when you were talking about that, and you mentioned breath, and that's combining as you said they're all Incan interconnected. So as soon as you start focusing on your breath as a mechanism for focusing on your values at the same time. Now, you're entering the physical realm. So do you do breathing techniques? Or do you have a meditation practice with breathing or do you simply take short breasts or long Bresser, or what is it that works for you for me? I think I you said a singly that something simply like praying which is something I do is it will immediately. Usher you into the spiritual round. But as a release to the physical ram. Indeed, I take deep breaths. I pause, and I take a deep breath in that physical ram when I need it when I'm exercising. So I'll say that as an aside the physical ram dozen vite. It's a bit of a context. Sport if you will. And so it requires some activity on your part, but that activity need not be something strenuous. It can be something simply like meditating or paying attention to your breath and understanding your the rhythms of your heartbeat and blocking out some of the other thoughts that might want to creep in while you're paying attention to that rhythm. But I do I absolutely try to find some place that just quiet, maybe some nice, quiet music, a consistent sound in the background can also help you relax and to train your focus on it. But it works wonders. Well, you mentioned exercise, which I was thrilled to hear you say because you have not traditionally been an athlete is. I recall, correct. I find the older we get the more exercise and sleep and all the things that are part of taking care of our physical wellbeing. The more important they are. Everything in our live. So you've started walking, right? Tell me about what you're doing. Indeed. And so I'll tell you initially the walking began as a challenge between my brother, and I on the number of steps that could be obtained in a day and me never shying away from challenge wholeheartedly took it on. And I still do I'm never going to be outdone even though he's taller than me and his strides are longer I still keep up pace with at least the minimum. But one thing I'll tell you. I found in walking that is so connected to this physical ram is that the exercise itself is works wonders for the body. But one thing that judges in particular, I think struggle with is having appropriate outlets for our feelings. And when you don't necessarily have a friend, or even a colleague, you feel that you can talk to about a trauma that you've experienced or that you are perhaps experiencing along with the others in your courtroom. That wall gang really does provide the atmosphere and the physical outlet to really release some of that trauma that may have been experienced in the courtroom, for example, some judges may not feel like it's appropriate or they are even able to talk to a colleague about a particularly gruesome trial that they just heard, and perhaps it's really troubling them walking praying breathing and embracing nature as you are in this journey really does provide a visual stimulant and a relaxing atmosphere. But it also gives you the opportunity it's almost like releasing with each step that you make you release something else. So that you can return to your responsibility more clear thinking. So there so many different ways to get these feelings of wellbeing and learning how to get a balance, and they're not always available. If you're sitting on your couch with a broken ankle, you can't walk, but you could do other things. But one thing that really is important. I think we are more whereas leaders managers, I think medicine is more aware is the important of those relationships and talk with other people, and that's one of the things that judges sometimes denied because it's not appropriate for them to talk about what's going on leaders have personal information. They can't share and yet having healthy relationships. Seems to be critical to productivity at work. It seems to be critical to your physical health. If you're if you have friends at work, you're more likely to be productive. How do you get at the the relationship part as a judge when you're talking with judges for people who have kind of limits on on how the relationships are structured in their day job. And I think you've hit on something. So important when it comes to talking about relationships, particularly for judges because I believe this is probably the loneliest occupation one will ever enter into because of the limitations you've just outlined. But most judges if not all have relationships that predated their ascension to the bench. So it is so awesomely important to nurture those relationships, and they should have a disconnection to what you do daily. You can send a nice note to a friend to tell them you're thinking about them having absolutely nothing to do with the work that you're doing. But it does do something for the relationship. But it also does something for you the person to know that you can think beyond the rope. And you can be someone who is not so tether to your work that you you forget all of those. Important relationships. You can cook a meal for someone or with someone you can attend a child play or their school event just to be supportive. These are small things that sometimes we find ourselves too busy to do because we're researching or writing opinions or sometimes that trial ran longer than we wanted to or the hearing, and we completely disregard the importance of showing up those relationships are so important because we more likely than not won't be judges forever. And the people who matter to us still want to know that they matter to us, and that we matter to them in. So there's small things you can do you can call someone and tell them a funny joke just because you're thinking of them, you can reach out and give someone a hug, you can the art of note and letter writing is so long now, but is so mean. Ning full imagine getting a note from a friend from high school who happens to be a judge. But more than anything is a human being that cares that matters. And there's research that says there's something about the act of writing and the act of opening up a letter an old fashioned letter or card and reading it the physicality that gets in gauged both the rider and the recipient feel joy, that's kind of outweighs the energy it took to sit down. And write the note. It's it's sort of being rediscovered there's a. Another part of of this with relationships that you alluded to when you mentioned one of your resolutions is when you're with your son, you're going to look in the I one of the things that I think you're great at and that we can all benefit from if we work at it ourselves is to be there when you're there. We are tempted sometimes because we're living in our heads in. We're thinking about our to do list and our calendar and with happening next that were not engaged where we are. And a good practice. If you're, you know, they're things you can't talk about if you're in a strange town. If you don't know anybody around you at the moment, if you go and buy a coffee you make eye contact. If you go into a store, everywhere you go. If if you treat people like actual people and look them in the I think, you're great at that is that a conscious thing or is that just how you are. I believe it's how I am now. But not how I always was. And so to your point it is something that takes practice. Sometimes I contact is very scary for some people for some individuals. They would rather not they would perhaps prefer to complete their transaction and move on not in. Gauging so much, but I agree with you. When you say there is something profound about looking someone in the eye. And as they are speaking without saying a word, they know that you are invested because of your very act of looking at them understanding that no one else in the romances other them and what they're saying. And what's happening to them in that moment. I will have to say that there were times as a parent. I wasn't so good at that. Because I had allowed the to do list or what's happening next week not even tomorrow to enter my mind such that it diminished what my child was saying in the moment. And I don't know how many important things I've missed because something that had not occurred yet was more important to think about then to really engage in that moment. I think it's made all the difference now. And although the world doesn't come go into a holding pattern because he's begun speaking. He. He is very aware that our conversations are important enough for me to pause to listen, even if only four brief moment for that conversation, and I can got the rest of the day or the hour to think about what's happening next week right now, this is his time, and he appreciates that. So for somebody who is trying to get a little bit more juice out of their interactions with other people to kind of get a little bit more richness out of even casual relationships one practice that I like is the practice of saying sank you. And meaning it so that if it's something very simple a little bit of service at a restaurant, or whatever it is going on in your office. If you actually allow yourself, maybe a second to experience that gratitude and then make eye contact and say, thank you. And then if you want to go a little further b b specific. Iq and say thank you for that quick service or thank you for remembering my name that genuine. Thank you that makes you both feel great, right? Indeed. And if you can begin and end a conversation or an interaction with what you've now defined as a basic courtesy that so many, and I don't think that there's maliciousness on anyone's part for not doing it. I think sometimes there's more fear anxiety often because of the society that we're in. We just don't know how receptive someone's going to be to our comment. But I don't know that I've ever experienced anything negative from saying thank you or from for someone who will accept my call, even as a judge, and it's perhaps not the most timely opportunity to take a call. I will begin by saying thank you for accepting my call or thank you for the time to speak with you. I will be brief. And before we conclude out thank them, again, not to be, you know, overly friendly. But to knowledge that their time is important. I appreciate the audience and that I realized they could have done other things with their time. And I'm really grateful that they've given some part of it to me. So everybody's well being can be enhanced when people are interacting with a certain amount of civility. But but that brings us to the the fourth realm, sometimes we're pretty good about being kind to other people, but we are not so good to our selves. So in the mind, mental the brain realm, sometimes we beat ourselves up. Sometimes we talk to ourselves the way we never would to a friend or even a stranger and one of the ways we can practice villages is how we talk to ourselves aware of how do you find yourself sometimes ho you shouldn't have done that or? Do you ever have negative kind of monologue in your head that you have to like pause and step away from? Oh, indeed. And I think that if we're all pretty candid with ourselves that we from time to time have those experiences, even those of us who are the most self-assured have those experiences. I believe in reframing some of those conversations so that you don't dwell on the negative, but you can find a positive in everything. For example. You know, it's not uncommon to to be driving a rush hour traffic, and someone will be less than kind or what you perceive to be less than kind and the manner that they are driving along maybe the person's cut you off. And you are somehow taking it personally that they were you know, they saw you from behind. They beat you to the red light and hurried up and took off and from then on they've just had it out for you. And and I would do the same thing. What I've started to do is to refinement and say, you know, what maybe they're having any -mergency. Eighty is not me personally, perhaps they are really focused on getting some place, and they believe were fill time is of the essence. And so it's not that I have to figure out how do I catch them at the next light? And make sure that they know how unhappy I am. But rather how can I take a step back? And appreciate that. Maybe this person is having some kind of experience that I'm not having in. So my perception of it, which otherwise could lead me or anyone for that matter to do something or respond in a way, that's not appropriate. Instead a step back to maybe give them the benefit of the doubt, which I think our society lacks quite a bit. These days is giving each other the benefit of the doubt. Which is how the negativity creeps in or how the anger or the self doubting or for me? Sometimes I feel like I'm not smart enough for this. My good enough. How am I this is a complex issue in my ever gonna be able to master the subject enough to write a opinion that is? Respected by my peers. And my my colleagues, and that can be pretty scary. But I'm reminded that I'm just as capable and I'm able and I can focus. I have a skill set that is matched by my colleagues, and that I can produce in just as great away as they could so part of the pause that we started with it. I love which I think is a theme of your own self care part of the pause is sometimes. Taking an opportunity to very quickly reframe the annoyances and sometimes to bid negative things in life and framed him in a more positive way. And then move on from there. The the great thing about some of these small things were talking about for well being is that these are not time consuming things. One of the things we did at that workshop that we got started with the judges that love so much is that we asked people to get into the spirit and suggest some things that any person can do to kind of tweak their well being in the course of a day and just kind of turn things around a little bit pause. And then take one little tiny step further. Can you maybe finished by giving our listeners some suggestions about some quick waste to promote well-being for your. Self and maybe for others to will easy things some very easy things. And I'm so glad you asked because you don't have to invest a whole lot in order to make small changes something I like to do when I'm just looking to maybe get started is to think about three things I'm grateful for and it's really helpful to write those things down really consistent. What you said before? And if in fact, you can think about those three things at you're grateful for and you can write three things down that might lead you to that nice note, if one of those things about someone and say today, I thought about things I was grateful for you were one of them. I want you to know and you finish the sentence. Imagine the joy that you weren't to someone else and to yourself by allowing yourself that peace and joy. So that's one something really small. All but doable. Another thing is just what we discussed earlier, which is the icon ttacked with someone else smiling with that I contact goes a long way in not only engaging the other person, but inviting them in to that immediate space perhaps not for an extended period of time. But just long enough for them to to know that they are appreciated in that moment. Journaling? Yes, I am a twenty year cancer survivor, and I did not discover journaling until about ten years ago. And when I began journaling, it started with all of the things about my history, and my experience with cancer that was negative only to bring me to the date where I had I realized I've actually got ten years to reflect on. So I should probably be grateful for this. But journaling for short periods of time three minutes at a time. Or maybe even less to start can really provide healthy perspective on not just where you've been. But where you are and help you to begin writing goals and visualizing those goals and then working toward those goals. But just starting with short journal entries are amazing. Well, Gail I would like to close today by saying that. I am grateful to have you in my life. We've been having these conversations for twenty five years something like that. It'd be hard to believe I am grateful that you are joining me here today, and we're having the fun of this conversation. And I am grateful that you are taking better care of yourself because I want to keep learning from you for at least another fifty years. Well, so that's three things I'm grateful for and they all come from you. So thank you for being here. And I am equally grateful in so many ways that you have and continue to be such a strong, wonderful mentor. Someone who has always given of themselves. Selflessly? I am grateful for all the lessons. You've taught me in life personally and professionally and I am very grateful that you've reached out to a listening audience that gives us the. Opportunity to share our adoration for each other to help them. Okay. So it would quit now before we start to cry. Today, we've been talking with judge Gail Williams buyers about how to promote your wellbeing. No matter how tough things get it work even a few depress or short walk can take some of the stress out of your day. Today's career tip is that there are many ways to approach the state of your health and your wellbeing. The starting point may be whatever seems easiest do some little thing to enhance your spiritual spiritualize or the state of your body right now or the way you talk back to that negative voice in your head. This podcast is produced by W O UB public media. Adam riches are audio engineer. I'm your host. They're really Jones author of think like an entrepreneur act like a CEO, if you have comments or suggestions for great guests for our show would love to hear from you. Please Email me directly at Beverly E Jones at EMI dot com. That's B E V E R L Y E J O N E S at M E dot com.

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52. THE QUIET RENEWABLES REVOLUTION

Reasons to be Cheerful

56:47 min | 2 years ago

52. THE QUIET RENEWABLES REVOLUTION

"They do through. Do. This is reasons to be cheerful with Ed Milliband, Jeff law. Happy anniversary. We made it to one year. Looks like we made it even though the crockery is being flying audience of being raging with still together. I still feel as infatuated as that first day I met you. Aw. Georgia's try to sweep that stuff. The copy on our one year anniversary she found, you know, the Email that you send to start with. You used to work for me suggesting the thing the other day I was looking for something else. I chemical see mail. You said PS after setting out there, I'm sure this is proposed personal ever happen. Well shows wrong. I can be positive. Is preposterous. I did happen and we special guest. Well, my wife has come upstairs. You were going to be my reason to be cheerful. Jiffy because you've just past your life in the UK panky. We have that. And then then at said, well, why don't we have our one year anniversary as reason to be cheerful stead. Thank you for putting up with me and everybody for a year. It's not a problem. Do you do wonder what our neighbors think of this low moving so quickly on movie on, wonder, know. I don't know. I don't wonder what they think about it. They would think about it. No, I wonder who has an awareness of it. Well, traffic would come in the afternoon, a weekday. Mostly our neighbors aren't home, but often I will look out the window after we finish and at just chatting to the traffic wardens asking them if they'd like a selfie with him doing trimming dome. Yeah, but don't. Yeah, you seem like just inherently someone who would not be great with selfish, but of course it's just so part of your life now. But, but this is not someone born comfortable having his photo taken, do you not think so. Why would I why would has become this? Tonkin just seemed like you seem like you wouldn't know that. Not right. He's just push just grasses to the vis knows. Give it to say like moles. I, I don't think either of you see your both nerds and nerd aren't good at having their photos. Take it wrong, the revenge of the everyone in here who is not. You guys is laughing at what I've said because they recognize that I'm right about it. Why can see we haven't had you own. Wait, I'm I'm honestly if you picture yourself at twenty years old, were you comfortable being photographed. Prenton love it. Now, this is all I'm saying, but you've obviously become very comfortable because of what you do professionally swerved out of that, you'd go job the diplomatic, which. Having there's nothing I would rather than do a selfie because I hate having picture taken do. Yeah. Why? Because I feel very depressed when I say so myself, Jeff, and I are the same with this, and I think I put you in. I think I made you one of us and I, what I'm learning in this moment is not. In this special moment special. So we'll see having three of us in this marriage, you think? Yes. I think that you guys have a really nice friendship do and it's really sweet, and so it's made me very happy. Well, I miss him what I'm or what I know. It's really, really, really sweet. It's it's a nice adult friendship for Jetta how I think. Like you guys haven't known each other since you were fifteen or something. You know what I mean? Like you found each other, and it was really nice. Really don't tend to Quan you friends after sudden right, and it's really bad for like male mental health or something. Yeah, isn't that a thing that like all men would have lower suicide rates if they made more friends over the peaceful lights in life, male friends. Makes me depressed. We'll look thank you for being so toll ruined. Fund the Haitian, John Ming, generous. Spits on an old rind. Great person. A great gal. I was one year anniversary become a about her. Like me. But yes, yes, Sara, thank you for joining leisure. Thanks for having me. So what is one year anniversary special about them? We talk about renewables this week, the this is the sort of blank blank. Chinese cities are adding blank, electric buses the size of the London bus fleet every blank, Chinese cities, adding edible, electric pussies, the size of the London bus flay every time they get hungry every five weeks, Chinese cities, adding nine thousand five hundred electric buses the size of the entire London bus fleet. She didn't get a chance to end says she was going to say that I, yeah, that's what I was going to impress guess. Yes, that's crazy. But don't just feel like I have no. China, it's just gonna be some astoundingly large number. I mean, basically what we're discussing is there's lots of reasons to believe me about climate change. The climate is changing, blah, blah, blah. But there's this revolution going on not just the uptake of soda wind, renewable energy, but the Costa's well, and the coast of battery power and is going sue quickly that we all very, very soon poorly. We'd go to Oregon getting to the point where renewables are the cheapest energy. There is an that is a sort of revolution. Nobody really predicted it, and it's gone so much false than anyone old. And I think we're still coming to terms with the implications of it doesn't mean we can necessarily beat then just climate change, but it gives us a much better chance of doing. So that's what we're talking about. And we will be joined by comedian sues Kempner to pitch her days for reasons to be cheerful reasons to be cheerful with Advil, abandoned, Jeff Lloyd. We have to change. Can we change? This is the exciting news. The best projections in the world sixteen years ago were that by twenty ten, the world would be able to install thirty gigawatts of wind capacity. We beat that Mark by fourteen and a half times over. We see an exponential curve for wind installations. Now, we see the cause coming down dramatically. Some countries take Germany and industrial powerhouse. One day last December got eighty. One percent of all of its energy from renewable sources, mainly solar and win. A lot of countries are getting more than half on average basis, more good news, energy storage from batteries, particularly is now beginning to take off because the cost has been coming down very dramatically to solve the intermittent problem with solar, the Newseum more exciting. The best projections fourteen years ago where that we would install one gigawatt per year by twenty ten when twenty ten km. Around. We beat that Mark by seventeen times over last year we beat it by fifty eight times over this year, we're on track to beat it sixty eight times over. We're gonna win this. We are going to prevail. I'm delighted to say that we're now joined by Jeremy leg of solo century and Juliet, Davenport to his CEO of good energy. Thank you so much for joining us both of you. Advising us just to start off with. We just heard this clip from Al Gore in his Ted talk, celebrating the success of how the cults of solar energy, wind energy tone have been coming down germy just start off by saying something, but I think it is good news about what's happened in the last decade in terms of these issues and kind of where we are compelled to where we thought we would be well, I think the the costs down has taken almost everybody by surprise. Those of us who know the power of Sola was you, that price would come down, but I think even we have taken a bit being taken by surprise it how fast that's happened in how quickly we've become competitive with fossil fuel. So twin centuries, twenty years old. And for the first ten of those years, it really was a bit like pushing rooks hill. But from about two thousand six, when the price down the cost down really started to happen. So the market has started to take off on a snow, a growing exponentially at we can beat fossil fuels and certainly nuclear in most markets. And especially when we hoped with batteries, it's it's a no brainer and letting clued gas in a growing number of market. So we're looking at being able to seal fulfills and Euclid. Completely. Now the so that food for me, the question that remains is, you know just how hard what remains of the incumbency is to fight in the rig action. Aniko much. Depends on that environmentally and economically in one of your recent presentations, Jeremy. You said that according to Morgan Stanley, renewable energy will be the cheapest full of power and almost every country by twenty twenty e just sales little bit more about that because that's really what's driving this take-up. Isn't it? Yes, and you creasing -ly you can. You can see this everywhere. Uncontroversial bloom. Bug is very good at covering this these days is commenting on how is x. essential threat for the for the fossil fuel companies. And those invested in them real frat across multiple sectors. If the people who get this wrong, who done don't go with the flow as it will just this week called him track came out with its latest report. The financial think tank based in London, and they're looking at a- Pete in fossil fuel demont at Seoul, fossil fuel amount in twenty. In the twenty twenties. The best estimate is twenty twenty three a. once the demand for fossil fuel starts to drop a control quite quickly. That's when I set skit stranded, and they, they say that they think that the stent of of of. Sets in previous investments in in fossil fuels because there's roughly fifty trillion dollars with of pasta investment left in fossil fuels of that's gonna devalue in some cases going zero value very quickly. And and this is an enormous challenge for companies. Investors. The whole Sheils story is built on eighty. Fifths of this is fracking. Basically. Yes, it's built on eighty of delusion, and you know, the, the challenge we have in the energy industries is to do the do the best. We can to be the cavalry and ride to the rescue Juliet. Can I bring you in? I'd like to ask you tell us about what good energy does while you set it up. My background is I started life as interesting. Climate. Science has studied Sut com science and university, and I wanted a bit of a journey. I left the kind of time figure out. How could I make the biggest difference department and climate science. And so I thought it did a little bit of -demia little studied economics while them went too. Then went to government and European Commission, UPN parliament. But but one of the things that coming back to me was that she quite often when we talk about technology and we talk about energy if you get the uses of it. So we don't connect the sources of pow the suicides of our energy about two people at an end. That kind of is being lost for very long time. And so part of when I set up good energy back, sit of in the thousands was really about trying to reconnect people to whether energy comes from and how they use it in that that was kind of journey we've been on. Imparted, the redeposit came through really to the south of the company that people wanted to generate their own pow. They will to energy independence almost and the way we set up our energy systems will also have century have been very centralized, very controlled by the government, large organizations and the consumers kind of being the meter on the end of our member right back in the beginning of the when I started working in the industry, nobody taught about customers rating. They talked about meters, and they talked about the wires, and they took the jet generation assets that didn't talk about the person. The other side of the Mita will they would do. I suppose that was really good. Energy started from we went out. We bull energy from local renewable supplies, book with kind of bam. One thousand four hundred supplies in the UK, but it will. So we work with a nearly a hundred and forty thousand homes generate power in their own home. So we really became that that loan vision of people can be called to this solution. People can be if they debate around energy and we can bring it closer to people's plants. And closer to people's culture. Snus actually was rayvey. I guess Paul, the reason I set it up. I'm one of the things that I think it's important for us to touch on Jila meals you. This is the the rap on renewables always been, what happens when the windows blow will. The sun doesn't shine, but of calls again, has made references. The happened in battery technology and the culture battery tunnel g. is as remarkable is what happened relation to solar and wind and obviously key to transforming the limits of what renewables can do. Is that right? Yes. I think what's been interesting is that we work with a mixture of renewable, so we have some wind. We have some soda, we have some underwrite, but just me have a small lights when you add them together, they act. She fit relatively well, no perfectly. So you need more than just those, but but a lot of the scaping original sort of debates that we heard from sort of more traditional engineer. Fearing type approach. Has been slightly on founded and and just by having a diversity tendencies in you'll system actually really helps. And then you add batteries into that and you begin to get to a whole system. I think the battery oversee is transformed. We be electric vehicles. I think of Radi Jovan a lot of the the debate about trees. So you go, let's fixation of the transport process that's driven down, but innovation and change in the battery market. I think being driven really by some of the climate pause, but more by the by the pollution issues related to to cause. And so we sing that come down the charity helpfully to then stop to move into the overall energy market that commend help us balance renewables and yes, once you stop to bring that in his attack g that becomes really exciting. Am I am. I right that you will implying though that battery technology doesn't yet allow us to go to a hundred percent renewables all, is that something might happen in the future? What? What's the thinking on that both of you? So I think technology allows you to get that what we haven't quite got yet if the comics of it. So I think I think in certain can start sec- stuck very well why you've got completely decentralized grits way. You've got standalone systems at the moment which just beginning to break through and get the economic stand up in the UK market. And that's that's going to be the next breakthrough does. It's not quite yet, but it's not far off. German won't come in on. This will agree. We could serve to get to a hundred percent of renewables and increasingly voskan unity of practitioners who very, very bullish about this, but just to be clear on the economic Juliet's talking about the economics. Now today a long way from getting to one hundred hundred Abel's most old as the studies model how we get there. Some of them get surprisingly of show the we can do that and save money on the infrastructure that we would have been investing in had we been stupid enough to keep killing ourselves with fossil fuels and Euclid. And that also I think is uncontroversial if people won't reference cease to this on my website there, there are some studies, some rise one that I would point too. I think the most impressive one I know is done by big team at university in Finland, the muddles the global energy economy on an hourly basis, using years with real weather data. So t appoint about, you know, the sun's shining the wind blowing. We'd real data for whole year. They. They get to a hundred percent renewables and you know they do it well before the time that we have to do it by if we're going to be consistent with the promises that governments made in the Paris agreement on plummet change. Let's not forget that either every independent government on the planet has promised to do this promise to get to net zero emissions, you know, in time to save the planet from the worst ravages that coming people, maybe cynical about what governments or actually doing tobacco, that that those bro sous than they'd be right to be cynical about many elements. But you know, that's what we have to hold them to which countries over achieving when it comes to renewables. Can you give us some success stories from around the world. Will sweep and comes in Juliet, Juliet type Sweden comes immediately to mind. You know that taking this very seriously that bringing they, they've got a a law that gets them to two to zero Calvin. They had wooden targets. Remember the figures off the top of my head, but they had a target for as I recall twenty thirty four full, you know, particular contribution of winds towards that net zero target and they achieved it. They're going to achieve it in twenty nine teen. They're installing wind so fast in its Sweden. So that's one example, Jeff is a big Jeff is a big Swedish file. So he's he's smiling broadly at this too. Is there any way you'd point two in the world particularly. Yes, it has some great shots. There's some countries oversee, you've got the nets resources coming out of there is and low small population. So you've got places like Iceland. That's pretty much one hundred percent. I think the highest percentage of renewables pus in the world. Evokes Sweden, Jeremy touchstone, but you've also got big cool that's to custody co Nicaragua way, kinda go nearly one hundred percent by countries and what's great about those as they start to really as Jeremy set set that vision, that kind of get rid of the nice asset. It's not possible on kinda go yet, but it is look. It's already happening. The UK was done pretty well. If Gordon from two percent renewables when I started today, we're close to thirty percent renewable electricity in the UK. So it's become a little way. It's bit disappointed. We dropped back a couple of years, but we come a long way. Why if we dropped Bank, we had two governments of decided that onshore wind did onto a sign of a night of politically acceptable. Unfortunately. It's about people complaining about the these windfarms look like. I think it's a limited number of people complaining in March constituencies. Unfortunately, I think that that's dust driven. I mean if you look at the acceptability figures in the UK. So I think eighty two percents of people in the UK expressed a support for renewables, which is an increase in Las time. And I think it's like eighty three percent eighty seven percents of support for onshore wind. So you kinda go, well, he's complaining that we why? Why are we taking national policy? They're saying we shouldn't do. I mean, what? What other thing do you have? Eighty seven percents support for. I really don't know. So if feels like it's a model, small number of people influential people who've pushed us away, which is a real shame this country and give us a sense both of you of water. The things that we're not doing at the moment in the UK. We that we could be doing more or less moratorium on onshore wind that, right? Yeah. And on chill sodas. Well, wrote Jeremy full and small-scale. So. Solar, generally as just a big push off a cliff by the current government, it's is truly awful. And is that because they is that because they're saying it con- have any subsidy anymore? Is that, is that what's changed all you know, we don't need much in the way of substate, but we know the latest thing that contemplating doing, they would consulting all they've really made up their minds going going to do it, but they consulting the civil service does is not not even pay a tariff for solar electricity that is exported from people's roofs once like bowl too. So the roof. Sits almost incredible what why. I mean, just I mean, I was the declarant since introduce feed in tariff as the climate change secretary, which was a. An was relatively generous subsidy, but wh, what is the reasoning? What is the official reasoning behind that? The informants that I have tell me there is still an incredible philosophical built in prejudice to woods new player on the one hand and shale gas on the other end. And you know, we are clear and present danger. Let's not beat around the Bush. We are clear and present danger, and we're now dealing with a third sort of wave of excess central soult. We soil to under the coalition government where one time in two thousand eleven the, you know, the coalition government were would literally trying to kill the sober industry. And I was told that by senior civil servants, I was told that by people in the conservative party liberal Democrat polity in positions to know, I mean, you know, really dealing with belief systems here are the ones that you. Off the hook. I mean, let's stop. Pretend letting was bent of roses with the labor government. I mean, clearly you guys better than the current lot. But I have to say, I Juliette with a great not by much. I think it was dramatically changed at the end when did bringing the feeding type that walls pulsa be one of the biggest transformations in the Mt. Okay. Where we saw, we saw we saw wherever that's five years transmission, which one of the things that was most Brits batted was having sat around with Boettcher see from the big six, having all their focused about the UK is not sunny set necks onc- said what it's not very sunny of the UK solar won't work. Having been proved role was fantastic, so that period of feed entire from post feed entire. I know dome it felt like everybody was trying to kill industry, but it was also an incredible citing time because we got an amazing amount of soda deployed a very short period of time. And we also ended up when Nelia the million people generating power in the UK which was something had millions more generators. Amazing. That was just. Am I still see now even though it's really tough now I do see a bit of a bright future coming where we get us back together. We start to see this happening Bergara let's let's take a risk here which is to make you both the minister's for energy Newland in in the all the this is what we call the Jeff Crecy, which is Jeff as the benign ruler. Shoot me. He'll be benign. What are the specifics that we should be doing in the UK Juliette, wouldn't you start? Well, I think first of all, you stop, stop, subsidizing nuclear fracking. Things immediately start. You basically look at how you could backfire Jeremy. You're saying, do you want to just explain from your view what you what the subsidy looks like? And I know this differences contract for differences? Hard to explain, but that's yeah. Yeah, yeah. Thing for listen differences, known term fixed rate, guaranteed price contract, which is incredibly valuable for anybody. He wants to secure funding. So it means that banks will lend to you because they know you guaranteed income coming forwards and they will lend you very, very low rates. So that's not only is it subsidized above the market rate. So you'll guaranteed this price above market rate. You also will get the secondary sort of slutty play less scenes upstairs that it's taken away the risk. So that means that those kind of power plants and get really, really low interest rates on the any death they borrow on just for the benefit of just to the benefit of our listeners. What's the price? The Hinkley point, nuclear power station has been agreed. And how does that compare to what renewables? My offer. So at the moment. Mike, it's in the order of ninety pounds some of the twenty nine thousand one hundred pounds from from recollection roughly thirty five year contract. So renewable. Now you can start to see when you Ables. We're seeing some of wins, sixty seventy pounds solar, Jeremy. Mike wrong is similar of sixty. Seventy pounds build starts solar again, UK onshore wind. Definitely that kind of raids. So so. So we basically we're looking in thirty five years of a cost. It's already thirty thirty pounds above the technologies and the other thing to remember about nuclear. We've never seen you. Technology costs come down, so so we're at a point now soda where we continue to see those prices come down nuclear locked into a tunnel. Gee, that's just not going to decrease. So you go one we few generations are going to have to pay. So you're worried about the subsidy for nuclear. What else would you? What else would you be doing? If you just put you in charge. Kind of very hard that heat market and see what we've done. So we had a system could EKO for many years, which was where we were trying to get make large energy supplies put in energy efficiency, which would that mean they would lose mountains. And I always thought this is a bit mad because the last person you want to put in charge of China, reduce costs, reduced Jesus call. So those people are going to suffer as a result of it. So I think we need to rethink about how he to me, he is one of the biggest areas we haven't really made any inroads in in terms of renewables targets since the big thing that we're out standing. So we kinda need to completely rethink about how the UK and how he deliver any policy mechanism that's really effective to do that. We need to make sure we got control me part of that, but we need to basically start making sure that every home has not the stop every home is not wasting anything. We got comfortable homes, but we're not. Wasting anything to, and then look at what other technologies can we start to really support so should be looking at sun thermal school. We haven't had soda was perfectly well in this country. We just had no roll out of that kind of technology tools in the UK. Georgia's explain for a list what solar thermal is? Yes. So essentially is the very the most basic onto you could just do it home by having a host by putting out either on your loan on your drive in the sun, and he will then turn the tackle later in pot. That will be hauled that is a census oath oval, but it's always a bit more sophisticated merb'ys as that they have road chiefs ten put them on the roof. They tend to be black. You pull water through the absorb the heat from the sun and then goes into party supporting the heat in terms of your your energy system, new home. Germany over to you. So you've got this job share with Juliet, what would you be? Would you be asking for? Who would you be doing? Let's look at fracking. Most people don't appreciate that in America. This. Revolution. The oil industry likes to think of it is completely underwritten with a mountain of debt. The the oil and gas production has caught up hundreds of billions of dollars in debt doing something that's fundamentally economic. They haven't found a way as an industry yet at any time since it started in two thousand seventy thousand eight to to to make onic and there are no reasons why these economics are going to be any different in the UK. In fact, they're going to be worse because we report to have better environmental standards than the Americans which is going to add on cost. So none of this is going to make any money. It's going to lose companies, money, build on debt, and they can only. Take on that debt because of course the banks lending at such low interest rates. But at some point, it's bobble it's going to burst. And yet this government is prepared to literally bribe people to to allow fracking underneath homes. Forgive my hip is governed actually paying out money to for fracking intending to. Yes, they have said that they will. They will pay money direct into the Bank accounts of householders who accept fracking under their poems and communities, bribery straight, bribery. What else would you want to positively to be doing a Germany if you were the minister will stop all that and do everything that Juliet said. And there's a lot more that can be done with clean green energy as well as as companies are realizing national grid is working with Google on how to make the flow of electrons along the lector at the national grid optimally efficient and. As cheap as possible. It's a marvelous the potential we have. And yet we have a civil service and it political class in in in government, who will you know flogging these data ses of nuclear and oil and gas in the in the sunshine is because of the belief systems, you know, and who their friends saw, and he's really back, I, you know, I think in many ways you're, you're talking about the comforts of contracts for difference in the nuclear economics, but you know the the very latest nuclear development wolf. You know that you cut power plant that they're trying to build off to. They filed within point because they never going to succeed with Cleveland. But anyway, the next one in line is wilda the compass Wade private industry to investment, so guess what guess who's investing in it? You know, five billion pounds of our tax payers. Money is what the people who are supposed to believe in the free markets. Chilly, actually using taxpayer money that level to abai Hsieh's in in fundamentally uneconomic technologies. Our national audit offices already said. Can never compete Julia. You thinking that there's no role for nuclear in the future. You thinking that the limited role because they're oversee some people say that you do need nuclear for the baseload so-called even with battery storage inal. I think the future is going to be about digitization of energy, so we could have moved to a system. So it wasn't long ago that the way the so grid, what is that the national grid was seed that they beat be looking at the radio times and they'd see that there is a big football match and they figure out they give somebody call Dami other end and say, can you switch that pass nation on? That's not how the future is going to work. And I think we're still stuck in this world of we need baseload power. It's not. We going to have dynamic demont. We are gonna have people's households people's. 'cause anywhere that you use energy changing and it's going to be flexible and it's going to. Be we're going to be able to switch on and off. It's not going to be consumers who do this. It's going to be their own households there in how pose their own. 'cause that will be switching on and off we need. So the need for baseload will go away the base of Missouri because we never managed energy property previously. So what we're going to see is a huge that you knew the conversation. I said about the whole energy industry was focused one side of the meter. We've now suddenly going to be the other side, the me too, with the customer, and we're going to be there's going to be data about people's homes is going to be data about what they'd using, and we're gonna figure out ways of not having to have these huge systems that we have before. And so the need you could just goes away basically as far as I'm concerned, but there's also the need for massive infrastructure that we've seen with national grid and some local grid also begin to diminish as we actually he sought to use them ballots or energy locally in a much more effective way and that that is where the future will go. Definitely. The biggest one of the biggest accommodation companies in the world MB is doesn't own any accommodation. Some of the biggest power companies, the world will not necessarily pass stations of the future and that that's that's the change. We will see in this world and obviously big amount of jobs in this. I mean, I think there are ten million jobs well-guarded the new renewable industry and the presumably a Bill. The u. k. here we think about the future. I think as long as we keep trading in today's and as long as we keep looking, I think that will be up one of the biggest team. Good energy now is not in our IT and digital team, and that is how I see the future of our business is going to be about the renewable technologies are important, but but actually how we bring that into a customer experience in how consumers go fold is going to be office gal. It's going to be the thing that completely changes this market. You both got the job in the Jeff. Oh, Crecy. When I moved into Buckingham Palace that will be Sonal Powell Malysz now, is it? Yeah, because I'm not just a prime minister. Yes. Unmoving they'll be solar panels on the roof. That'd be one of those hosepipes Juliet was talking about the old. It sounds good. Juliette Devon porn, Jeremy. Thank you so much for joining us. Thank you. Lovely. Well, I think there are some reasons to be cheerful in their own the. Yeah, and I feel that this whole thing has been a real education for me on renewable energy. I had it in my head. We were still at the stage with renewable energy where it's a nice idea, but actually in terms of the efficiency, it costs we're still miles off and that's not the case. It's all, especially with the advances in battery technology. So it's quite exciting time and all these different countries to be hit in renewable targets ahead of Shenzhou. There's lots of good news there. Yeah, and I think what I said at the beginning about China is really important because they are. I mean, frankly, just sweeping the board when it comes to technology jobs and let because just putting really big investment into it, I think I think the other thing is nuclear thing is obviously sort of controversial. Different people have different views on this, whether we do don't need nuclear. I mean, the history of this is the climate movement was very, opposed nuclear. Then some people in the cat about climate change including me thought, well, actually the danger of climate change is so great that we still need all the technologies. I think the question now is a question is whether not the so much the safety of the remains an issue, but with the economics is moving against nuclear, whether is just becoming too expensive competitive other things. And I just don't know enough about how much the battery technology can solve this base load problem. But I definitely think there is reasons for optimism. I mean, the other thing we didn't say is, of course the science of climate change in the danger of climate change are gathering peso is race against time. Reasons to be cheerful with Ed millet, Jeff. We'd love to hear from you if you'd let send us an Email till as what you think, but what you've heard this week, but if you've got any reasons fill up to mystic about renewables, if you got any ideas for future episodes, you can Email is read length, which happy birthday piano, verse ring reasons at cheerful podcast dot com. This first one comes Rachel Walker who says, Hello, Eddin, Jeff, I blame you both for contracting food poisoning last night. Oh, well, making my dinner. I was listening to your upset about food. Wastage was deciding on what's cook. I saw had some macaroni with pork and made days before the left of the fridge, which is only a couple of days out of date while I might normally have thrown out since I was listening to you guys discussing how much our country wastes and how best before dates run the advisory. I decided it would probably be fine today like four year vomit. Lewis streak quite literally down the. Toilet, don't worry a won't hold a grudge rail cautious about taking your vice quite literally in the future. Well, we need a medical disclaimer at the end of the show. Well, it might be too late for that. Now we need to. We could get Gayle Lofthouse set very quickly. Yeah, just the best before dates, news before days. Play fest and loose with the best before, but not with the used by is the thing. Full years is a good vomit streak as well. It's not good. I'm sorry. Yeah. Well, anyway, Rachel, we kind of apologize funding poison to you Thomas jets, and he hasn't been poisoned he also emailed in, hey, Millie, bay. And Jeff, sorry, I don't know. The phantom nickname view. I've just finished listening to the food for thought episode. I've been using oleo for a few months now and even as one person, I can't believe how much I have to post on there. The cans of sliced fruit. Two months forgot about sweet potatoes that of Tuesday's dinner and even nonfood items nappies my daughter's grown out of all the l'empire place lost year all gone there. Everything I've post as being requesting collected by the end of the day, I've had pension single parents benefits and just general people could use garlic, cloves, comfort things, and it feels great, but throwing away things paid for the other people need to go to pay for. I can't recommend the app enough. Also, big fan of the podcast helps me get through my twelve hour days. I'd love hearing your views on vegetarian veganism as for guest on topic gas Oakley, the vegan chef could offer some great suggestions is the whole vegan cookbook and makes gourmet vegan foods episode, thirty four. Yes, we did a good upset Vegas yet, and we did this comes from Mike Garside who writes, hi, Burton Ernie. Now, this doesn't mean much to, you know, when you went to watch Sesame Street is a boy TV problem. You're only to watch the baby. Struggle to rubber Ducky. You're the one that would mean nothing to okay. Mic says, I work in the food industry for one of the major retailers through my work. I visit many major and smaller suppliers. One issue that I don't think was discussed in this week's podcast is that the industry profits from food waste. I'd come station with the major bread supply this year where they openly said that for an average white loaf. They know that around forty percent or go to waste. However, if they only sell the appropriate amount than the profit margin will go down as it's in their interest is so family too big loafs a higher price than two smaller Los with no waste. There's also a shoe with customer perception. We all reach to the back of the fridge to get the milk with an extra day. Even if we know we'll use it well before, then I do that. That causes massive waste. The same is true with bag. Solid people will buy a bag with longer life, even though they plan using it the evening. I suppose something in your head says, it's fresher. That's why you're probably doing it. The retailers and supplies have a lot of work to do, but there is a what they did, the stunned of behavior consumer Email, and then north on the subject of food waste. We've got an Email from Georgia Strachan. Firstly, I'd like to say that I'm a huge fan of the pulled and have missed a single episode since it started. That's very good. I sold the phenomenal, Karen mcklusky episode of the friends that was fifty. So I'd like say, thanks for inspiring, pulled costs. I'm getting touch after one of Phil Wang's reasons to be cheerful. And this week's mainly suggestions. The homophobes shouldn't be allowed to use computers or is he put during machines? I worked for the touring trust charity. Alan turing his family. The touring trust among other things takes donations of PC's from UK households businesses, universities schools, and put them into schools in Africa to make sure that students get the opportunity to. Gain digital skills as well as helping students. I work is also environmentally friendly by reducing the carbon footprint of each PC so far has raised one hundred nineteen. You call them footprints and supported over twenty five thousand students in four African countries with ICT. We'll volunteers in the UK particular Edinburgh where we're based. We mazing give us a shoutout considerate, Don, Georgia, or if you know of any organizations refreshing their IT to tell them about us as we're in the process of expanding our project in Malawi, and it is much I see equipment as possible where a small chart and appreciate any support we can get, look him up, send us y'all ideas suggested guests for a future episode, Email reasons, cheerful podcasts, dot com. Find us on Facebook. I'll tweet cheerful podcast and with her own personal manifesto to pitch some ideas which could be potential reasons to be cheerful. We're joined by comedian sues Kempner. Hello? Hi, you have been busy. You've done Edinburgh, and you're doing your Edinburgh show again in London. That's right. Yeah, I'm doing it the Bill Murray which is near angel Chubu. And what is the show? It's super sonic nineties kids. Okay. Okay. Growing up in the nineties playing computer games. Do you know who would grow up in the mind would enjoy that show is because you have no memory of any pop culture the night. Tonight. Golden Brown, his entire life in the nine. He's ready good on trivia this huge black hole. Well, I had a lot of people like that came to the show and Gordon Brown. We would. They said, I worked for Gordon Brown cheese and knowing I am. I didn't expect to enjoy this, but I still did so. So maybe it's still the show for you. We'll see comic thing from the nineties in usua-. Well, sonic the hedgehog. Yeah. Did you have a misspent youth spent in front of a television or you down the cades? I had a a mixture things. Have my Sega master system mega drive plugged into the tally, but also was out around horses. 'cause despite humble beginnings, my mom is a dress droid. So yeah. Yeah, she's the poorest women in dressers virtually. Yeah, that's her job. Yeah. And Kempner is just one horse that she works with zoo. She. Took a lot. She is. Took like you in the same. Love dress on. Your experience would cost. Dress dress. The whole, like carrots. Issued a who is human shit. She publish it with a whole. Just like should of one night stand. Not nearly as much fun as the question. She has several horses that she works with regularly. The lone ranger, say, both as different horses. The same name because he didn't care enough. Just troop Rosa, Jeff is question for every case. Dress shows black PT when you were going? Yeah, yeah. No used to watching very unrealistic. Okay. So you've brought long, some ideas which could be essential reasons to be cheerful? I I have a swim. Right. Okay. If you ask someone on a date and they say, no, they have to send you five pounds by box few to get yourself some crisps and dips, right? Yeah. Sues manifesto, rejecting someone means the reject. He gets Chris dips now, so this should be some kind of compensation. Yeah, Chris, Christie nips wherever she like the no limit. The amount of the udalls people on low than you. Let's be clear about cancelled Deitz now. Just someone like I don't really want to do that. We just they have to send you five hundred people swipe, but these days anyway. Ooh, that's I wouldn't help that if they've done something bad, like canceled today completely on board with this policy. Okay. Is cold calling, isn't it? You cold touchy since sport. You. Jeff. Owl. Finance shit. But you'll most pathetic pathetic. Yeah. Okay. All right. Well, not that great. On the last day of school when everyone brings in videos, it's fun. You remember this? Yeah. I see it still happens. But when you get back off to the holidays is back to stale old lessons sues manifesto on the first day back from holidays, you get to finish watching the video. Now maybe finally get the second half of the mosque. There's something to look forward to young Bank. Yeah, we should have had them before are some LeBron's we could've brought in class struggle again, you favorite day. Struggle. It's game monopoly, but for somebody for a moment. Sounds right up my siblings. My Nana would love it. Yeah. Yeah, we'll show them Joan Schneider. She's known to dressers Welsh. Now. She thinks it's ridiculous. She graduate from Cambridge. The first year women can get a degree from Ambridge. Would you do off to Cambridge languages teacher? She speaks bunch of language. She learned Welsh just for love. All right. So what we have if you one of those people who has their parents paying their rent, you've got an unfair advantage, sues manifesto, those parents now pay half of your rent and half of my rain level the playing field, even things up this, this financial compensation. Yes, red starting to merge yet. How would you mother and grandmother it to these ideas. Me. We all face left-wing women. Yeah, you dress sociable, yellow, yes. Left wrestle rose. You dinner parties. It's. She goes, you're not allowed to come on this one because people think that we're ganging up on them. He her best friend until you've got real chip on your shoulder, but people who have money to my mom and she's like, no, no, it's just so fish racists over with. And yeah, you're salsa moves you. He really does one amazing one of women, your family? Yeah, face lift wing women, the union of left-wing dress, ROY. It's very small and my mom will meet someone else in dress on. She shares have used Annella whisper. How did you did you? It's difficult to the Kuban drizzles. Yeah, join the next one. Just free school dinners. Everybody gets them. Kids teaches adults me you. So it's lunch time now, are we hungry? Yes. Let's go down to the school for free. Scoot in a everyone gets very, very good idea. Revise candidacy yet, Jeff. You'd have taught some people. The towns there is something really important in this, which is they've done these experiments with putting old people's homes next to nursery. They love it when you're on the, you know, older people up steady lover. Yeah, and I think that's something about inviting the community and I'm sure you're onto something with this. What would classes Gordon is nearer school classes, school dinners. Instant mash love instamatic spam fan. We had. Semolina. Hated semolina custard with the skin on it. Yeah. So is your Rolley Polley? Yes. Is this what we're all going to be to Furniture's? I didn't know what it's eighteen years since I was lost school location. He'd just naming. This is interesting as symmetry here, which is a whole lot to remember your dessert. Not you'll not joins up too easy. Yeah, we'll maybe because the desserts was of more eligible palatable just because it was sugar. Good. Good. Are you gonna have bottles crepe respond to the back post Brexit. So when quitting mart? Well, work. Heading down. Okay. So do you know the purge the film franchise, the purge to know it's basically a horror film franchise where the concept is for one day murder is legal. Yeah, there's a few of them. There's one like push election night. Right? The purge, but for one day, yeah, men can't tweet. The shrew. No one would explain my jokes back to me one day. No tweeting. You're the trailblazer in this just more than a month? Yeah. Look at Twitter. A not listening, not reading Twitter, d. tie bet Twitter can be quite cruel. Thought it was funny thing is it's it was less about things people's en route things about me because that's been going on for long time. It's more that you walk into twins light walk into a pub brawl with booklet, someone's face during go him. If some, if some angry right wing anti Semite wants to coup Mesa. Interesting names. I've started writing apology accepted. I. Yeah, I think it's sort of quite destructive. Yeah, but it's good for Edinburgh. Probably truth as faking of which Edinburgh show. Supersonic nineties people could see the Bill Murray hill Nari twenty six September sues. Thank thank you. Reasons to be careful pump customer ideas with Ed Miliband and Jeff law. Episode fifty two. It's very happy that we've got to year, but it's also sad, Alex Feis, Bryce done lots of research this show. Leaping comb believe you're leaving us. What what, what is it about that is easy to reject like this just so unbearable. You kill enough to be chief executive of a small charity, small human rights, equal rights. It's pro human rights. Yeah. Yeah, definitely not cited. So maybe we'll get you bet. Good as a as a guest. Definitely. Worked on the book left here. Eighteen months. Absolutely. Was he tough in the job interview by the way. Yeah, fairly very, very nice and friendly book, ten me some kind of. Questions from ten to. If you if you were out of which already? Yeah, that was. It was the whole into a bunch of highlights. I guess the podcast it's been highlight. Yet being. Trying to Sarah, it's all about you really. If you were to ask either Ed all myself for shirt, advice which should to buy, who would you? Definitely you Jeff at only criticize my shirts far too flamboyant and really. Stylish. She's insured, James. You absolutely AO been moments where. What is the truth behind the re whichever what's out group is true that we created that to leave that out of certain conversation, we could talk about him. If et is feeling a little bit grumpy, maybe he's not have these morning snack what she best way of handling. Chicken. And if I were drowning, would you say. Maybe if you share price. No, I think I think I'd try and save you both somehow. What are you being? Absolutely brilliant and lots of the very good ideas that you've heard on this being done to you. And so we're incredibly great. You could. Mccutchen producer focused. Alex is the backup and research within. Lofthouse's announced the change Deka maybe identified seed pose the music and the provided by Emily power. He's been my life in life friend. He's been the third person in my marriage on diesel b. Twelve chip. Oh.

Jeff UK Jeremy touchstone Juliet China Germany Georgia Edinburgh Gordon Brown London Ed Milliband Sweden Euclid John Ming Kempner Mike Garside Prenton
#266: Next Generation Security with Automated Reasoning, an Artificial Intelligence Technology

AWS Podcast

27:44 min | 3 years ago

#266: Next Generation Security with Automated Reasoning, an Artificial Intelligence Technology

"This is episode two hundred sixty six. The AWS podcast released on October seventh twenty eighteen however on a welcome back to the podcast suddenly Shahidi great to have you back. And I have a pretty interesting guests today. I'm joined by Barin cuckoo's the director of automated reasoning group here at AWS. Welcome to the podcast bar. Oh, thanks very much for having me. Thanks for coming along. This is a topic that I think's gonna be interesting and and probably new to a lot of our listeners. So I think we'll go step by step. But as we tend to do at Amazon bar and his obviously we like to start with the customer work backwards. So before we even get into what automated reasoning is, what is the customer problem that the automated reasoning group was trying to solve in this particular case, the longer term goal. But the shorter term goal was to establish correctness for certain pieces of AWS on behalf of customers and what that was in the early two. So for example, is the is the crypto code, the customers are dependent on correct. Are the protocols security protocols that are being used? Correct. Are they doing what they are advertised? And then we very quickly learned that when when because I didn't really know anything. About security before joining WS. What we really quickly learned is that customers have direct questions that they wanted answered it. So for example, are my resource policies implemented? I have. I have. I configured by resource policies correctly and have I configured my virtual networks. So my VP sees and you'll be and so on, if I correct configured this correctly to give me the things I think I'm getting I said, that's the customer Centric view of the of the thing we've been doing. So it's really, really focusing on that customer experience. This single I'm running these new Hollywood animated, highly scalable systems, and I think I'm doing the right thing but cannot prove it. That's really what we're getting to. I mean, in a sense, one thing that's both great and little unsettling for people who have moved to the cloud is that you know, now you're Indian. If you're in large enterprise, your engineers in your organization can very quickly create structures network machine builds build up machines, network them together, put stuff on the internet, assigned policies to them. And so this work allows us to build tools that we put in the hands of customers that then at an organizational level that can decide, oh, we, this is the sorts of things we don't want to expose. These are the sorts of things were comfortable with, and that really allows all of the great things about the cloud without of the parts that are that that were little more unsettling before Fisher. So let's let's define some terms. So what he's automated reasoning, so reasoning. First of all. All is the the shorthand for the logical reasoning or the application of logic. So. Logic. Typically one can use to reason about the infinite, but in finite time and space. So this this goes way back ancient techniques. For example, Euclid who died. I think in like two eighty BC defined mechanism by which to reason about spaces. And he defined set of truths that when you look at them, you're like, okay, I believe in those. And then everything else from that every every other deduction was built from consequences from those original axioms as we is the similar tech, the same techniques to reason about system. So for example, in mathematics, there are an infinite number of prime numbers because it's there's an infinite number of them. No one's ever tried to count them all, but we know that there are an infinite number, and we've done that by proof and logic using reasoning and logic to to show that they're similar. Like for example, the four color theorem or Kepler conjecture there, many proofs in mathematics that that our reasoning about infinite or intractable large things. Finite time and space and automated reasoning as the development of algorithms that search for proofs in mathematics and logic. So we, we write code that finds a proof. And then typically the search for the proof is difficult. And then the checking of a candidate proof once it's been found is typically quite easy to automate. And so the automated reasoning is the application of the of the two techniques, computers logic in mathematics, improve. So this is a really interesting discipline all point at this point that Barnes, some amazing presentations at various reinvents of dies past that are available, and I'll put some links on the and that say, can see some of the the reasoning prices at cetera. But this is really a bad figuring out had approved that something works and then actually proving it using using automation that that you didn't have available to him at the time. And so what does the automated reasoning tamed do it at a PS? Like what's what's its purpose. So there is no higher assurance than proof and logic. Right. And so what was happening on the AWS side is the customers were increasingly asking, so you know, okay. So your new say the virtualization stack is correct. Have you demonstrate that? No. You say the cryptography is correct or the protocols carp teddy demonstrate that. And so there was a sense that we needed. As as an organization, we need to really raise the bar on how we establish that they systems are doing what they're saying. It also how we demonstrate that customers. And so I joined with the intention of trying to find some areas where where this application of my research disciplined could help AWS and help customers. And so so we in the early days tried to identify some projects where we thought we might be able to succeed to identify. Essentially four projects and the begin executing on those in parallel and all of those have gone quite well. And so then we've everything's continued to grow and we're doing more and more so we broadly speaking are applying, you know, different tools that come from the research community or tools. We write ourselves typically tools who writing concert with our friends from academic community which are open source and then apply them to the problems we have internally and also make services available to customers. So what's an example of of wave used this kind of process on a project that's the help customers as era, a good specific one we can use as like a stoking cost to talk about the application of this discipline? Yeah, sure. So I'll give you a give to one that's directly customer facing customers call today, and then one that's in some sense, giving customers more assurance, but they're not calling directly. So the one that the customers are calling directly today, we call it zelkova. There's the, I am resource policy language to typically start with Jason and then put in different the pieces to protect your buckets in three or your keys in cameras, etc. So that policy language is very expressive. So it has essentially inside of it. It has what we call disjunction and conjunction. So like ORs and ends negation strings, string pattern matches. And then a number of service specific conditions. And the question of, for example, if you're given any to some the, you don't know which one, but you're, you're given some policy and you want to ask, does this policy allow world readable or world writable access to my bucket by desert just some username, some some user that could access this. And I don't know who that is. That problem is is actually a piece based problems. It's quite it's a intractable problem doesn't it doesn't grow well with regards to the number of possible inputs that you're gonna try and use when testing to see if that's true. And so we make we reduce the that question to one of constraints in the news off the shelf, what we call us satisfy ability modular theories, silver, which uses a combination of about fifteen techniques that were developed during the fifties and the sixties. Then some wants from two thousand together in a way that even though the problem that it's trying to solve his MP complete mix, a feel for most industrial locations makes it feel like apptime problem. So we could sell the quite efficiently and then that's being used in a number of ways. So it's quite a general tools you can. It's, it's a actually a parasol policy comparison engines. You can take to policies and ask which is less permissive than the other, but then you can. You can hot rod that to do various things. So one one example where that's been used as in the s three console today. When you go to the console and you. Have a s. three bucket that is potentially open to the world. There's a little icon saying open and. Icon is being displayed because there's been a call has been made to zelkova and has determined that your policy allows world writable or world readable access to your to bucket must being used in other places. For example, Macy. It's been used in trusted adviser. It's being used in IOT, device defender, AWS can fig. So there's a number of places where Fiji features have been added to existing services or new new services that are enabled by this reduction in mathematics logic to to a tool that we run internally within within our team. And that's a really interesting why for the for the for the service teams to be able to get access to what is quite a complex in intensely mathematical domain and not have to. It's kind of like riding your on crypto, isn't it? Do it. It's very tricky problem, but we solve it will solve it once and for all this reduction in in mathematics to a constraints over and then the constraints overs producer proof that we can look out I by the way I promised you two stories. So the other store is that's right. You d. The use of proof to establish correctness of s to end pieces of certain properties of us to win. So as student is the t. less immplementation used within much of AWS Amazon. So for example, s threes s. two innocent implementation. And so what we've done is we've taken the source code from Esten is it's all open source and then applied some program verification tools that particular tool we use his called saw from from a vendor called Gallois, and we have proved that the implementation of h MAC is correct according to the specification that the deterministic random bit generator is correct, and that the implementation of the l. till handshake is correct, and then it's all automated. And for every every time the code. Is modified that proof is replayed. So we reestablish that proof continuously through the lifetime of of the software package. And then that's off. Rebecca gets used in a number of places within within native. Yeah, so that's you. Don't customers aren't calling that proof directly. But on the other hand, the information is protected as it's moving across the internet using using the less and I can also use overseas to win themselves if they want to because it is, as you said, an open source library and side, and this is an interesting die mind feels a lot better than handwritten unit tests and the way that many sulfur engineers used to testing or trying to test a systems is something we should just be using for everything or is this very specific to certain demise. So you don't need a proof that you can go to the store to get a carton of milk crate there. There's they're, they're, they're the the question is, you know like there there's some software that absolutely for for human safety or security needs to be right. And then there are certain programs where correctness is important, but it's not worth necessarily the effort of applying these kinds of tools and that and so that that there are different. They're different kinds of tools you can use for, for example, to find bugs or. Trying to improve the quality of the code, but the f. the activities that my group is involved in primarily around using proof to establish that for all possible inputs possible environments that the codes correct, and who will we apply number of here? So typically these problems are undecided, -able or intractable. And so what we tend to do trying to find niche areas where she was six can be developed that will work in practice. And so for example, the application of these techniques to policy analysis or network analysis that works crates very scalable. You don't really feel the burn of the MP completeness or peace base. And then in the proof of crypto or proof of pieces of the hyper visor those tools that we use, sometimes we'll fail and failure looks like it'll, it'll come back and say, I couldn't find a proof or it'll just go forever. Up killing that the proof search. And so the application of those techniques is not for the weak at heart. And so then you, you really only want apply those in cases where correctness. That's pretty important. And so that's why I guess really, it's interesting some examples of use those very fandango components. As you say, the hop Avaz the the policies, you sit around security, the scanning of security, although the scanning configuration drifted sich with is ones seem to be the the rot place to expand that that not inconsequential if at because you get the right, yeah. Yeah. So, and so this area has been used in the past, for example, proving the correctness of floating point division and floating point algorithms after the f. bug from Intel, Airbus and Boeing apply these techniques to prove the correctness of fly control software. NASA uses this kind of technique to prove the correctness, for example, with pieces. Mars Rover, you see this in railway switching in Europe. So there's there's a number of advocation where when correct, when correctness is important and there's a business need, then there there are techniques that you can apply you don't. You don't wanna do it to to show that your headphones are correct that you're using to listen to music on. Good point. Oh, that's interesting. I mean, you mentioned quite a few different domains that apply these that probably not not apparent to the to the lie person headed. You get interested in this time, but it it feels. It feels very specialised yet has potentially brought up a is headed. You get into. So I was doing a PHD and didn't. So my adviser was funded in part by Intel. Intel had just. There was the, I don't know if you know about the floating point division bug. I recall it will where we couldn't trust, couldn't trust spreadsheets anymore than they had to reply with a half a billion dollars and replaced hardware. And so they decided to invest in this area that that that I'm a specialist in now. So I didn't internship in the. Group that they had formed ear before to investigate the use of these kinds of techniques. So these techniques were very blue skies, research toy examples only. So they were trying to apply these techniques to real circuits. So I didn't internship there. And then I kept up with that team that I had joined a company that was partnered with him and then applied these tools, and then you know the things when from there. So I sort of by luck and by chance I spill learned about this area and it was super interesting, but I've done ever since I've enjoyed. It's an interesting way to get into something. I, I guess it's probably an unusual that you'll you and your chamber Cape Cod of the cloud. Has has its again underline components that we don't always see heady, go back working with with some of our Erin channel service sainted deliver services to customers and also f- f hield facing stuff as well head you interact with them. I. So I live in New York City and I'm in London often. And when I joined WF because a lot of the critical mass behind Amazon is in Seattle. I thought that was probably a. Might not be a great career choice, but it turned out to be like the best thing ever. And the reason is that in locations where there are a lot of customers and up and down sixth avenue, there are many, many, many of AWS customers from finance, two media, etc. So there's a lot of solutions, architects, technical account manager's professional services and so on. So I was placed on a floor with solutions, architects, professional services, so on and would I became very clear very quickly, two things. First of all. These folks on the floor knew a lot about the problems that customers were having. Secondly at Amazon, if you understand the problems with customer like you're so ahead of the game. So would I very quickly learned is that I understood the problems of the customer. I was going off and talking to the chief information security officers. Our security team members from customers in the area financial services, pharma media, and I had a great set of problems that if I could solve a couple of could move the needle on a couple of these problems that I was really well positioned to show value and to to do more and more. And so when I visit service team groups of service teams are spread all over, right? So we have folks working in Dresden in Israel and South Africa, and Seattle, and Herndon, Virginia, etc. When I'm when I met the sites, I have. Many customer anecdotes. I have a lot of data from customers and sit up as being the position. No, what I'm talking about. Secondly, because we have all these different projects going on. We have a pretty great network into the different service team. So we have a great relationship with crypto team. We have a great relationship with virtualization team hardware team could fig, etcetera at this point. Now, because we're solving hard problems on behalf of customers with a number of different service teams. Those relationships have grown situation to understand the engineering challenges and the customer challenges the and where the surface at health make prior prioritization decisions, etc. So it's been like a dream come true actually. Well, it's going to say it must it must be quite a a satisfying feeling to go from that intense academic focus and working on furthering the state of the art to to not just bam to implement, but do it at a at a literal global scale with direct customer feedback. That's kind of nice. So in previous places I've worked, there's been a considerable more red tape, or you know, cultural mismatch between the research organizations in the in the service teams or product groups and at Amazon AWS ever any of that. So there's a real openness on the part of service teams to adopt techniques working and and the customers are very cited about this kind of fork service seems are excited. And the folks that I've hired into my team are excited, many people on my team. I've known for ten fifteen twenty years. And so many of us have worked together in different places, and we've. Formed here and are working together on a number of problems. And that's been really fun. That's great. And so what are some of the, I guess, the really challenging problems your team is is chewing over at the moment that you'd like to solve out of the gate? We built tool that would have immediate impact and required, essentially, no customer interaction with wherever. Right. So you are just using a three. You go to the console and it says, hey, looks like you have a bucket that's open can fig alarms you win. A change changes been made some new organization that where customers exposed a buckets to the world or etc to go further. It's great to have a little bit of customer interaction. What would be great is if we had machinery table threat model from customers, and perhaps we had automated around synthesizing those strength models or like a game like interface. Where we walk the customer through the different kinds of threats that they should be worried about is building the building application and putting together the mitigations that customers are going to implement to protect themselves against threats that worried about. And then using the sort of tooling that we've built today or tooling award in future to prove the correctness of the mitigations that they've decided should be put in place. So that's that's an area would we look at how customers are using the tools from our group with they're using them in a deep and meaningful way with a really doing as they're evaluating the threats that they should be worried about. And then there configuring the tools to essentially prove the correctness of the medications that they put into place to make that more of a first class citizen would be would be really cool. So that's something that we're trying to figure out how to do. So we're doing that. Currently and internally with teams. So we've currently application security reviewers, typically mate with service teams to talk about new services or new features, and we manually put together plans for for mitigating risks and using our kinds of tools to prove the correctness of the mitigations if that's procreate, but what would be cool in the future is for all that to be machine, readable class, synthesize, -able, automative oil. And I think that would be only the second thing is. So to securily let's say you want to be. You want to build an application and you want to achieve PCI complaint certification. So what you do is you hire. An auditor, didn't any work through the different controls, and you look for ways that the auditor can try and establish those controls in place. A Mets requires a considerable amount of human judgment in it requires a considerable amount of human time. And in an essence, what's really happening is that they're sampling. They're looking at certain cases. It's not complete. It's it's some level of evidence, but you're not assured that there can't be above that would break compliance. That that's what that's what happens today. So that's true for Phipps one, forty, two. That's prefer PCI. It's true for federal hip, a etcetera. I think that in with the true flunk work, where in the situation where we could really change the game, one could imagine that the rules for compliance our our written done in a way that automated reasoning tool can establish them. And then as I said, sort of early on our chat, the two parts to prove one is finding the proof in the second thing is looking at the proof and making sure that the prove actually meets the constraints of voter proof is that that checking part is a lot of checking the teaser cross. My is dotted, but it's it's very detail oriented, but it's not very interesting. In some sense, there's lots and lots of tools that you can check the check that a proof is correct with the hard part is finding the proof. So one could imagine, for example, for PCI it won't be for all. PC Ivo pieces of PC. I can be encoded using tools that we have stay and maybe in the future, we'll have tools that can go PC I as a continuously establish that you're compliant. A proof is constructed, and that proof can be I can be automatically audited by third party third party or a third. Piece of software opens for software that the communities agreed on is the is the auditor software. And so that could really dramatically decrease the time to market and really radically reduced the cost both for customers at AWS to to achieve certification so that that's that's two problems that we're looking at now. They really, really exciting problems. It's great to see. I guess that though prices of applying intense mathematics processing Powell automation, the the, the reduction of very -bility in risk due to the human element is well makes it makes it really exciting. So clearly as we make these more complex systems, we can prove that I work with most sophisticated techniques. So often what happens is that in engineers are trying to get their correct in their conservative. So they ended up not being as aggressive as they could be because they're not sure if the more aggressive strategy. She is correct. And so what we've found at AWS but also on my twenty years in the industry. I've seen a lot where you'll realize that the proof actually allows you to be more aggressive and to make code more that's more scalable or higher performance. It'll be cool as these tools into the hands of customers that would allow them to to reduce the cost using AWS and to make their systems more scalable, higher performance because they know that the higher performance strategy still meets the compliance and security constraints of they're trying to me. It's really exciting time and barn. It's been great to have you on the show too. I guess Shaun Lawton devious divide just a little bit what, what, what imagine reasoning easing and how can be used by customers? Yeah, thanks for having me. Fantastic. And thanks for listening. Would you love to get your feedback at podcast at Amazon dot com, and until next on keep on building.

AWS Amazon auditor Intel Seattle Shahidi VP Amazon AWS Hollywood Barin cuckoo Euclid Europe Macy Shaun Lawton director NASA Fisher Amazon Kepler
Alex Bellos: Puzzles, Perception and Pool Tables

Mr Barton Maths Podcast

2:34:27 hr | 1 year ago

Alex Bellos: Puzzles, Perception and Pool Tables

"Hello welcome newly rectus owed the midst of Arta Matz. PODCAST cast with me. Craig auto show eight people to interest. I'm inspired me from the wonderful world of education. This time around. I spoke to to Alex balance but before we dive into that a quick word from Bram new sponsors. Cue The music in this episode so in the midst of art and lots podcast is proudly sponsored by cubism the creators of the award winning Isaac Night. Now those those of you who attended mining Joe Mogens Marvelous. Matt's events will have seen Isaac nine in action as they were one of our sponsors and indeed regular listeners of the show you may know that Isaac although not spelt quite as cool is the name of my little baby boy so for both reasons I am thrilled to have Isaac nine sponsor. This episode sewed Isaac Nineties Hands on visual and tactile resource. That helps people's in key stage one two and three to work collaboratively and developmental put maths strategies. Say I've seen with my very own eyes. Isaac nine consists of twenty-seven colorful and captivating cubes each with its own unique six sites needs these cubes then combined together to form a three by three by three structure which stands very tall forty five centimeters high with each cube measuring drink a fifteen centimeter square. The faces of the cube display a number fraction percentage or shape within each box of Isaac. Nine there are three sets of nine and keeps allowing three teams to engage in the activities simultaneously. Nowadays for me is the best bit. The physical the physical cues sorry are used in conjunction with our range of learning materials presented by two likeable and engaging characters called Abacus and Helix these robots use an identical set of virtual. Oh keep to introduce the tasks and then with US leader appointed the People's work collaboratively to solve the task. What's People's have a plan in place? They do the task review view the team efforts and then Stam back and take a good look and asked the question duels hour unser make sense. The People's answers is displayed aid as a wall of cubes which can easily be checked by the roaming teacher. He might want to suggest an alternate arrangement before the robots reveal the correct solution. The solution will is always the first part of the task as there are additional questions to engage the people's encourage further discussion. The results can be used with or without the software which includes banks of questions associated with all areas of the curriculum of course and this I absolutely love one of the most powerful activities is to get the the people to make up the questions themselves to try out with the other groups in the class. There is virtually nothing in the key. Stage one-two-three mathematics curriculum that call be assessed using I using Isaac Night Fractions decimals percentages prime number scandal miscued them asymmetry factors multiples Algebra even shape and space children mm preferred learning when it shed varied and Funk Isaac Nine provides a shed leading environment rich in problem solving reasoning and fluency. Wet People's can develop teamwork in work on resilience for more details. Check out the website Isaac Nine Dot Com. Not as I said a k nine dot com is that AK nine dot com and there'll be linked to that in the shadows in your interested in spreading the word about your product service or prevent to thousands of the very best listeners in the whole wide world. Then drop me an email at missed the boat and MATT AT GM DOT com to find out more about the sponsor the packages available anyway back to today's episode with Alex. Alex is a journalist. The man who runs the Guardians fortnightly Monday puzzle on the author of some of the best loved maths books of recent times including Alex's adventures in number and and as I found out he's also just a brilliant person to have a chassis so in a wide ranging conversation. We discussed the following things. And I'll tell you what we discussed plenty more besides why. Why is Alex's invention of special mathematical pool table and how can you get your hands on one spoiler alert you might need around twenty grand? How does Alex think the public's perception of months has changed? What sort of people answer his guardian puzzle? What drives Alex to write about? Maths collect shares some anecdotes from his best no Muss books and then we discuss all things puzzle related. Where does Alex is puzzles from? What makes a good puzzle puzzle? What is his new book? So you think you've got problems. All about analyst gives us a lovely puzzle to ponder before. Finally we reflect consulting that Alex Fides important that he's changed his mind about now. Just a bit of background to this episode. I've looked Alex is writing for many years. And hence our de excited about this conversation and then one hour before we were supposed to record by Barack Obama went down forty five minutes. It is on the phone to sky resulted in them trying to charge me to have an engineer. Come out and fix their fault. Oh I'm also on the call what I like to upgrade to sky movies now just in case there are any young children listening. I won't tell you my response so anyway I jumped in. The car drove the thirty minutes to my mother. And Father in law's house run upstairs to the bedroom EH dream. Hope talked to their Internet called the pollock's and did the entire conversation sauce on the bed. VIRA dodgy headsets. Needless to say I was in a bit of a ropy mood which which subsequently evaporated about two seconds into the conversation as Alex Lloyd into one of his many stories. What followed was to brilliant? How how is of me listening to an incredibly passionate and gifted storyteller in action? It was a sheer delight to things to mention before we start. I I just want to give a massive shoutout to my Patriot responses. You'll move contributions help pay for the hosting of this podcast. A more importantly allow me to treat my wife and sold to make up for the hours. I spent locked in my office. Recording and pulsing episodes together. There is no pressure at all. I do these podcasts. For Phone and I always as well but if he did want to support the podcast you can visit Patriot dot com forward slash missed the bottom maths and the bill linked to that in the show notes and the other thing. I just wanted to mention my other. The podcast series inside exams is now back for season two. There are some cracking episodes lined up where I go behind the scenes of an awarding body to find out how exams are written Mar checks standardized. Butch Moore you can check out The episodes by following the links in the shadows or just Google inside exams. podcast cast all just search Ravi Gate. You get your podcast from anyway without further ado let me introduce Alex balance as I say the Saudis a little bit weird. Did you to the headset. But actually he's not too bad. I might do all lanes of us just sat about my blue followed me. Laws Housing Future. I really hope you enjoy this one. I know you will on House et. I'll see you on the So Alex we stop as we always do on the podcast with maths. Speed dating questions so questionable. Watts is your favorite number and why this is easy for me hundred ten and I say that because I actually don't have a favorite number and date of number on discovering the lots of people do I survey. I snap poll to try and find. The world's favorite number forty four thousand people entered it and which was a mazing thousand different numbers with submitted the lowest hull number to get new point to get no votes one hundred written ten so I felt that Sewri sad number needs someone to love. It needs some love so I saw that comes my favorite. Lastly great I I look out flick it at all tastic second question Alex. And what was your favorite topic in Masters Students. This can be any age right. Okay so most excited about when I was at university and I was the philosophy of math. I studied maths and philosophy as really excited Ted by this holiday that you can get two different types of infinity and this kind of logical analysis of kind of Meta problems of things like whereas knowledge was infinity. How can you all kind of things? But that's sort of Then but I think all the way through Studying mass probably from the PYTHAGOREAN theorem though. Just bits Why it kind of? It was a new step in each time I go into the new stat and sort of the view different. I kind of enjoyed that. I'm sure there was any particular thing that you and the third question. We'd want to be perfectly honest here. I'm not too sure. What your job as dig? Moore's where we get into it but if you were to do something completely different than what would it debate because the question is what would you do. If you're in education must thinking I I wanted to not kind of our not and now I've kind of got the job. I would sort of really like what to do anyway but in the spirit of the question I think I'm the sort of person that always liked. CEO CEO Genoa's. That's a good idea. If I was doing something else I'd want to sort of Of crazy ideas kind of mad inventor type person I was. I think that would be really fun but actually it probably is lots of time just bookkeeping say she wouldn't be that much fun over a mankind idea of because as a as a journalist as a righty constantly coming up with ideas for stories by. We'll just say I came up with my day for a way to mango things like that. Little it wouldn't it. Wouldn't it be fun to take it to market or like In fact I designed invented this new type of pool table within a shape lips and if it would be really fun to markets and become this inventor takes a toy fairs and trade shows but actually very very soon you get bogged down with different types of wood and sort of an annoying carpenters and stuff like that. Let you know what I l.. Having an idea I really like the bureaucracy life. How did you get with the pool table? Did you get a model made so yes. So why did I have this idea. The idea was was kind of that before. In fact in nineteen sixties. A guy in America may a pool table. which wasn't a lips and they lips has two focal points to five as pilots and you have no pockets around the cushion? You have a black dot on one focus point and you have the whole on the other fuck opined and so what this means in the lips Is that if you put the fool on the black dot I on one explained hits it. It should revert rebounds should always go in the hope and I felt this would be really fun thing to do. Actually what you do you realize that it would go in the hole if you hit a exactly the right speed with zero spin and there was no drag and actually is up in the perfect mass land go in then real physics world as this Damn Pagan friction. The average distance that kind of gets in the way a sweater. I had this idea and I. How could I make this bill table? And so Google makes pool tables and I find these amazing is is in Essex Antenna. The Wo- The best in the world making pool tables that may pool tables of different shapes and sizes for people all over the world. While the handmaid's I said how much would it cost you to make this this observable table and they said well it's GonNa be by Sukkur twelve and fifteen thousand pounds. Wow and I I K- I forwarded secondly I was living in a top floor flat at the time I would. We'll be able to get it off the status and then I had this sort of brainwave which was I recently? Met a billionaire and Dan. This billionaire. I've met him because he's David harding. Who essentially funded the Science Museum Mass Gallery and also used to his companies could winton? Didn't they used to fund the Royal Society Book Prize which by being nominated for so he was a kind of a figure who is circulating likes to go to these things and likes to to put money back into the promotion of signs and amazing. He'd give me his car so I just sent him an email and said I've got this idea Bush. Tate's too expensive for me. I can't get my flats said this is this. Is the proposal you again to buy elliptical pool table it costs fifty thousand pads and you office will be the coolest office in the world. And it does what you like cremation signs signs It's a kind of public objects that it's not just for the hell of it. It's it's because it's in the embodiment of somebody interesting mathematical mathematical idea. And all the credit for that. And it's fun. You'll start for love you at all. I want is kind of sort of some kind of moral the ownership of it so if I want to take it to schools you can let me take it to school if I want to. Have someone come and play leads to your office. Plants and I think within a few hours I guess this this is the mind of a belief as few hours. I got the email. Yeah Yeah Brilliant talked to my charity guy and it was linked. I think he was slightly going on a date with some actually. It was fine and it took several the months and I went to Essex several times and it was really fun developing and it's been grateful. I'm thinking today at now. I've done it in for a while. I could say I wasn't inventor and I was invited to a conference influence which I've never been before was very exciting And then you know I I would get. I've had maybe thousand emails from around the world. People want to the by one. Because I've been on the number file channel a few times and one of the most watched video clips they have is the second most watched clip is how the next seven or eight million views is of me presenting the pool table. So those people they see anything I want one of those. Hey fifteen grand and they had I been neither ever. Hey from an ever again. I have so to all the guy. I've got to sales guy one from a mysterious man in Australia. I like to think of some kind of James Bowen Person Villain. Probably you got his own room with table and the I think the University of Waterloo in Canada them as department because they felt it would be great. Contain to to have so. I'll see you could just talk all night. I've not ruled out saw we'll see. How does the game work because it just like one ball just to get the whole? Yes so this is right say is the table and that table is GonNa be very boring. If all you're doing is trying to share the bull in the Puckett's just by with anyone bowl on the table Time Mike a pool game and so a friend of mine. We went to winton and we will playing Randall in West. We started with Alexa bowls and then we realized what was happening with gradually. If you didn't get the Bulls in the centrifuge goofballs they started to land slightly on the edges. Close to the cushion and clog things up it was is not fun so what was most fun was to just with three bulls. Oh sorry. Football's your cable and then three It's a black and and one one on one read and it was kind of rapid fire game that you start off by naming the color that you one and a half day when you break you have to have that color ads. Then it's if it's fun with her only two other bills table because it's quite easy to cats which way to hit the ball in the Cubal- not that you want to hit because obviously Wherever you are they're always exactly full ways to hit something in the pocket because of the cemeteries so sometimes three balls on the table to those will be blocked but you always have one possible way of getting to it whereas when there are too many people's dislike is a little bit messy and maybe maybe if you really scoop allotted you can introduce won't bills that we've thought it's quite fun and there was that excitement assignment of having fast game? Sometimes the Games would last two or three shots. Sometimes they off up to fifteen minutes and unpredictability. It was fun and it was quite satisfying. It was it was almost like any kind of table tennis or something. The Best Snooker I but in the short shorts around times he okay best to ten and I would add to take you off an hour or something. I think this has gone potential list. I'm seeing this break. This kind of twenty twenty cricket this is this is the kind of pool breakout. Maybe the Olympics. I totally agree totally with you. I'm totally with the problem. Is You have to find a way of producing that table. Yeah we'll say two thousand pounds months and the only way you're GonNa do that is if it's sort of factory is doing it with economies of scale etc and. I couldn't find it odd actually speak to these factories and I never managed to Ah. I said several emails to the big factories expected to those of some people in Hong Kong. He wanted it for the pool table and the club and was saying ass with right by China we could get it cheaper in China and then it just becomes something else and you took stuff that's been anyone is listening. He wants to spend their time trying to work out. A way to produce these tables full up to two thousand pounds. Then go Fred Fred. Well Hussy we'll see five well. I broke the record for the longest speed data. Yeah this could be a twenty four hour. called fantastic. Well I bet we got onto your career them because as I say I I. I've got vague ideas. But let me just takes on a journey for valid all started for you and and how you've got to where you are today. Okay so I'll take logically trying to as fast as possible I. I am sauce thing quite good at maths when I was young and a five six every enjoyed that was very good adventurous medic and also that there was something like my mum's Hungarian and Hungarian really proud of being Than anyone else at mathematics isolated lieutenant too hot so I kind of felt this my vacation and I absolutely love Mathis does. My best subject is losing to study at university but back then maths was ghetto. I've wanted to talk about high ideas. Images of Masters Change. But when I was growing up in the seventies in Scotland it was really on Koa close And I kind of wanted to hang out with the cool kids so I was also quite into writing in other subjects and art and stuff like that and I was always his complete gossips. I was the school newspaper and then school magazine than state Sunday mass influx tapes. I could have one foot in both the writing and the maths but I ended up spending most of my time not studying but doing the university newspaper which I edited and Quite well I could probably have carried on and academia my dad's academic Do what he's done it. All my friends a journalist I ended up becoming a trainee journalist had the Brian Evening August up from regional. Press the National Press I got jealous. A news reporter at the Guardian My mid twenty s and in my late twenties sized get to South America and was made the correspondent for the garden and observe in South America America. I ended up writing a book on Brazil. Seem through convertibles. It's supposed presentable but really it was using football to write about Brazil. Did that quite well. I came back to the UK. W What I was going to do because I can buy Brazil being that I didn't want to get back. The Gods News reporter again and then friends of mine. His literary agent just said. What do you do maths? I remember the time I just saw. Aw Yeah I'm not sure Should go read a bunch of Masson's I went to the library. Took a bunch of books at Maths and I commend. The lying on my sofa tries to read these books. On muscle kind of impenetrable in quite boring Ended up just like falling asleep. And then one day EH. Just thought that's brilliant because obviously math is not boring. Why was I falling asleep because the books were a bit boring and I thought why need to do I need to write about this subject? That was kind of my first love but using over techniques line led from almost two decades as a journalist and and I started to think that I was actually trying to do something when I started to writes Alex Adventures number land. I realized I was doing exactly what I was doing when I was writing comfortable. So we're not supposed to present football I lived in Brazil. I speak Portuguese. I would go around the country and interview the people who speak Portuguese and then translated into my language and explain what lies were like two people who have been to Brazil at massive kind of the same. I I was writing. Alex is mentioned a number for people who say they don't like math just for the general read of people they might have. The massive school definitely wasn't thinking of the mass community. It's all the while they. They were like math they were they know this stuff. So I felt I was the foreign correspondent in the world of MASCI would go and it's fully ripple tired I would get interview people. He's lines connect to math in some way because I'm a mathematician numerous. I'm not afraid to talk to mathematician about mathematical ideas. I can then translate these ideas into an away as easy language and communicate the mathematicians. So I sort of feel. I'm the kind of foreign correspondent in weld maths. And the came at miscellaneous Alex's wrenches don't bland and I was not really expecting for how well well it did which firstly the mass community really braced it and really liked it? Now I think there's no why because festive something. They could have and give to that friends. This is why this is why. It's really fun but also math might be changing now also lived so much me megyn social. We just sharing fun things about math. When I grow up I was never told anything about the culture and the history and it wasn't presented to me with kind of humor huma and anecdotes and when it is it? Just enriches your whole subject. And I think that's the people in the masculinity would just really grateful to to read someone whose writings seriously and with respect but not really dumbing down because I think I think dumbed down I think I Ryan simple and clear way UH Dumb Dan And they joined it and also because this I went to college so I know how to write simple sentences short words in the active etcetera etcetera. It turns out that you can actually be quite young and read my books still understand him. Even though the concepts will be quite difficult but I I try and really write it in a simple way so it's become something that is on school reading lists that I get children in general maybe twelve breath coming. You don't get copy of the book saying it could. Could you sign it so I didn't expect that by that. I made that connection. And what was great about that having an audience within the mass community but also in the general Community is that I've managed to make a living for the last ten years especially writing math books in the by far largest proportion of Y N is on the advances in the sales by make from writing. My books written on Oxygen Venture on Alex's veget- bland which is about what what is most Level ideas through the looking glass which is bringing some kind of a level of ideas like Miami numbers and things like that and I've done three puzzle books tennis of my problems puzzle. Ninja Problems and I did these. Two coloring books works with Edmund. Harris is a British mathematician. Living in Arkansas the professor. He's an amazing mathematical artist and coloring books. Actually just galleries of really interesting mathematical ideas expressed visually. And I'm a I'm waiting publishing kind of his good. We can only command and advance as good as you lost but yeah I'm kind of waiting for it to drop off off and will I've had a good ten years but so far I'm still doing it and and I love it because I'm the the challenge. I like the challenge. I like material the mascot tons beyond I like the challenge of trying to take something which is kind of abstract strikes and accepted challenging and to try and make it entertaining so most people could can enjoy it. And and that and I lived Kerryon Kerryon doing in the results of ways you can make methods thing you know you've got my pocket pocket doesn't through comedy you've got Number file in as through the kind of visual explanations but will I feel most comfortable comfortable with is the written words. I know that that might mean to. My audience is alleged aged fifty. I'm I'm I like is that the is sitting down telling story with words Not Sort of contain my. Shes and will enjoy Dan where I am nine Gospel tossing. We're GONNA dive into some of your favorite stories from some of those wonderful books that you've mentioned but just a quick question. Alex Len I got. I fascinated by kind of people's Day to day jobs and stuff. So we're recording this on on a Wednesday evening. What won't for example you doing tomorrow? What would what would like tomorrow? Look like is it just writes in set. What would a typical day line right? So That's interesting question because tomorrow is totally free. I am so looking forward to it because today I have got two young kids and I do most of the childcare so so anyway that I have found that can make it work. It's not my wife leaves about seven in the morning and it gets back at six is for me to get up at five. Am and I get up at five. And I have an hour and a half before the kids get up and then once they get up they will feed them clothe them take necessary comeback back then. I'm kind of exhausted. That will have in the era before giving myself like list of tasks stuff going through the tasks and then L. finishing I have an nominated of the day is kind of continental like that. I think that the thing with writing there is no point writing. Take if you're not one hundred percent absolute points yes So I've learned from experience much to go to sleep for half an hour and ten minutes. Ya Yeah we shot rising than an hour worth of severe wounding starring your screen. So I'm quite Price cool like feeling a bit tired. I just couldn't my dance lead and luxury do that but I do superdome days and it all depends also the stage in researching a book. I am and the moment I am at the beginning stages of thinking about my next book project. Which is I? Don't think I've mentioned this. World is A possible on linguistics. Oh what I'm moving ever slide to linguistics. Essentially the nugget nugget was puzzled Columbia. Gone for about four years and people do send it interesting puzzles and a couple of years ago someone sent in this amazing puzzle. A bats the worrell period who on original Greek Alice Springs in Australia. And it turns out that the wild Kyrie Have this amazing. Social structure where everyone in the community is born with a certain skin with Hulu skin. It's almost almost like kind of a boarding school. There are one of eight types and this time determines quite a lot of important things within the community. So if you buy one you can only marry people who had type two for example. Or if you type three ninety Myers type full say take the time to you. Married also determines the skin of your child so essentially it's really complicated mathematical. Oh groups like group theory within this community and the puzzle with some with something quite fun. which is you into a wealthy community? And when you meet someone and they say my brothers sisters mother Blah Blah Blah and you have to work by looking at the group while the relationship is Mrs Refund Simple deductive logic but more than that. I've learned something I didn't know that is kind of blows your mind that these supposedly it known these days non developed community has actually have these amazingly sophisticated rules that see much more sophisticated than what we have nice. That's interesting and find ways puzzles from and it turns out it comes. From the North American in Computational Linguistics Olympiad which is this competition and has a parallel one in the UK the UK linguistics. Olympia anyway is linguistics. Olympiad the AD is this kind of brotherhood of people essentially academic linguists who are trying to encourage. GCC enable table kids to maybe go study languages by running these competitions and our Math Olympiad as physics. Olympia the chemistry Olympiads. The only Olympia there is it is for subjects. That isn't told his linguistics is okay which means that always questions achieve no knowledge. So it's perfect for someone. Who is my age just different nothing about acerbic dipping into it and most of them are really mathematical? It's all a bag kind of deciphering codes bills deciphering code where you think. I'm learning a language at the same time so I've had this kind of diversion. I feel quite low. Following now have digs puzzle. Every two weeks I kind of know what people the people that like. I just feel that my readers can really joy these puzzles because what you get I try and do my books. Say even with the puzzle. Nobody puzzle books. I know just his puzzle he's not the public's not the puzzle it's more hundred years. This mathematician did such and such and then he came up with this puzzle which ended ended up by someone else. And then this other thing happened so you can read them a bit like a story. I'm hoping to tell. That's the story of the dislodgement of Hieroglyphics Hieroglyph of canal. which is the first ever a script that exists festival numbers natural numbers does the disarmament of Meyer? Wiener the Myers interesting at base twenty system. So it's kind of math but seeing through kind of culture and I'm a ride the beginning of the research of that. I'm just reading everything that I can so I'm not really writing anything. I'm just reading as much like hands. That is what's what's I look forward to June tomorrow today. Why did is getting up to a couple of the kids than Brady from number file? It showed up a couple of Eddie Hayes him. Then I went to the golden achieve live in London went went to the Emanuel Center and had to give a talk to six hundred. UCSC thoughts of massive action. which is kind of their charity? Not Not read. It's kind of educational thing where they have a day where they have a whole bunch of math speakers. Oh yes and I was one of them. mouse scruggs who does choked dust with another one of them. Anyway is kind of amazing rocus. Tonight is the best of the worst loss they'd be there for day. Six hundred kids in this kind of church areas. It's almost in the round you're on the stage so this big thrown and the stained gloves and they're I just kind of Gedeon hysterical and I had to give a talk and it was. It was funny. One of the puzzles to sit in in my book is an old classic traffic puzzle. My talk a bit about the history. It comes for one the festive magic books. which is the handcuffs puzzle? Just so you've got a rope and you Utah ripped one person's rest than the other risks as it's kind of tightly pointed wrist. Yes and he another rope and the other person and then you into look the ropes so they kind of get yes. How do you unlock yourselves? What I did I got full ropes? I will I got two boys and two girls components. Here's the boys and the girls and they were both connected and they were trying to disconnect themselves it was it was crazy it was like big into kind of boxing match meeting and sharing the stage was like a bit too big. They were either side side when I was looking at one and trying to explain what they were doing what the problem was the other teams. And we've done it and I was like I don't believe you is absolute chaos. I mean it was a lot of fun. The the kids have a good time but most sure told them enough about to pull it as I wanted to teach their hats on it fun so I came back and I was exhausted and actually my wife's been kissed abandoned. I'm talking to you so I have very very different days question. Fine thank you I want to ask you now. It's a question is go. Ask all the guests and again. It's a teacher. I asked listen terms of an lesson but you can interpret this however you want. I'm always interested in in favourite failures so something that didn't go according to plan mothers. Talk whether it's some form of writing you did but crucially what. What did you learn from the experience? Do you have any favorite failures Alex. So I've given many any talks. The died without the I have died. I remember 'cause will no interest. May I'm not a teacher. Maybe in another life I would have been a teacher. And there's a lot of kind of teaching I do in tens of imparting information but I'd have a PG see. I haven't ever stood in a class and told people so I don't want to fail but people have to teach you have any ideas about hesitate. And why did no. I know I can make math fun and lively and I people can somehow response that night and spot them however they're going to do it but qualify. Do that not by talking about the master by talking about the context and sometimes I've gone to talks that talk about the context and people have just been almost Disgusted Bridge Wales. This is this is this is just idiotic this this is maths and which I say I guess you rise and the end has made me make sure I know exactly who's really clearly the mathematical level of the audience. What they want? What our ages? So we say we such that a lot more clearly Failures I have had books that failed and and the mind the has done. The worst is puzzle Ninja and actually was one of my favorite books. The Puzzle Ninja is a book of Japanese Puzzles. And I felt because everyone run people love to dig it. Yes in General Evans Takeaways. People didn't love it wiser in Ed. Almost every magazine wanted to get every news agent that there are hundreds of books the thing his about it gets boring quickly because you work on the strategies. Then we're doing the same old strategies and it's it's it's not actually the interesting Whereas in Japan they've invented hundreds of Mush more interesting grid logic puzzles so I went to Japan to find Aubenas community? They make them by hand meaning Vats they generate the my computer. They got the the idea they fill in a complete grid. Then they work backwards in order to give the solver the my stance tiny way to the solution so they they will make you pass really interesting patterns. They'll do things that look like a difficult. The easy it's a complaint is is is beautiful engineer bolt from these these people to do that puzzles. It came out and said in Japan. The way they do Japanese books they often do is the size of a hardback. It's actually a paperback with flaps and with unbeatable everything Japan. You know this. This is that they do come. Small things really nine it kind of refined way. So we had this beautiful kind of minimalist design and came at and it just didn't sell and I think one of the reasons why didn't sell is that the whole idea of the book was kind of basically flawed correct You walked into a bookstore and he sold the on the puzzle shelf. The Sherlock look homes puzzle book. The Penguin Puzzle Book. The oldies olden survey puzzle book. What people seem to like in that puzzle? There's something very clearly says what it is and as a kind of almost victorian traditional British highly brand. Why would you want to buy this puzzle? Ninja ZSA threatening. It just didn't work actually now thinking about it. I've a a similar thing about failure. which is something? I've also learned. I did the picture books coloring books with advertise and we didn't because there was a full five years gathers it's amazing booming coloring books and I thought it was wanted to do something visual and mathematical. I met Edmond and he was the gods date with and I just had to my agent. I said if his BOOB for coloring books maybe publicly interested in a masculine work and Yes yes to do as fast as possible so Edmonton I. We did in like two months or something a lot and what we thought was messages was images for maths Mathis Saints Turnoff by many people complicated difficult so we need to as a title position. It like all the lovely kind of nature kind of coloring books so we ended up cooling. It snowflake seashell star is nicer literature. That it's kind of tasteful. Because you know that the star on the snowflake in the show I kind of mathematical in the negative way and came out in the UK and and just kind of did read it did did nothing did nothing. In America they were interested and publisher that Snowflake Lexi. She'll start what we WANNA call. It happens on the universe this amass coloring book really. There's there's like no we want to basically say exactly is completely unashamed of sayings maths and they were totally rise. It became the best seller in the US and did nothing to in the UK and that made me realize that. Actually be proud of what it is. Don't try and pretend that it's something else. 'cause she snowflake seashells thought what it did. It just blended in with everything else. It's not that special whereas you should actually go out and say this is the mass thing and people respond to that and actually there's a lot of people out there that now you're saying I won the mass. I think yes because I think I'm curious so I think the I learned that it's just a bit more proud that Oscar. AH The risk of taking down the tangents here. Alex with the alright say the US changed the name. Was Alex is a vegetarian number on the has a different name in the US us yes as well that does not and as a constant pain because the age of the Internet. If things on the same sums bye bye. People said. You didn't tell me exactly. The same book story is came up with the idea. Alex is mentioned number land and we were like well with with but my headset. We will celebrity pleased with really nice. Charming America in America. Were like GonNa look. Who's Alex I think? I think that's the whole point like I'm Alex. Adly nine and I think what it is is that alice it was before the Johnny only debt movie rally. They know what it is but it's not a cherished and as part of culture as Alice in wonderland rise in the UK. Hey where it's probably the most cherished Victorian yes child Story so coming up with other ideas and then I came up. Put tongue his looking at euclid. It's very rich very good. Thank you which they was good and also they got it sir. Twenty people who don't get it. It's obviously because his looking at you kid is the line Humphrey Bogart's Casablanca and will you and I came. Came up with this and I do know what this is actually better own. Maybe I should get back to the UK people and say say what you think and I did and they said as kind of testing on a few friends I made you said his euclid and then I realized this is why American English and British English. It's you know with with with few nations separated by common language. That is is very very different. Michael really interested in this thing about why Euclid is. He's known by every American and I will some friends of mine Americans and in Brandon Americans and I would say his euclid and they will. Oh yeah that's funny. I said Gee have you for this Risen the UK. I'd say he's Euclid As you've never heard of you Clinton and then and I was thinking well. Why is this the case so in New York you could avenue is a subway? Stop so if you're in New York you're going to actually at least know the word that maybe not yours geography. Is that if you there are places in America Euclid. Actually there are loads of street names around Medical Euclid and then this is my theory. I might be wrong with his Nice theory. And it's that the founding fathers in America are Mason's Mason's all very close ties masonic lodges obviously the Masons the symbol of the masons is the compass and straight edge all bad this kind of logical thinking in King to do with the masons also the way the founding fathers with thinking can of logic and progress etc so when America was being built and with the strength of the masons and the prominence of Euclid within the whole thinking I think they would call. They would name streets after Euclid as just became something. That's part of the culture because it's part of says the birth of the growth of America that we just don't have we have an must be the case also mentioned you cleared and the way they teach joe entry there that I mean. I'm surprised you get some people here who You know maybe not mathematicians but SCIENC- people. I have heard of you find amazing. I find amazing absolutely absolutely. I got an email just the other day that there. Some publisher is republishing republishing. All live then euclid elements in in brand new California and stuff lot so maybe it's going to come back into prominence and yeah I don't know but you just just Alex when my my how I wish I taught maths whenever people start to buy that in the US. Before I had A. US publisher my first ever review. Allison Dot Com not the code. UK was from angry an American Day. WHO said he's not even read the book because I called Spell Math in the title in the spelling till the title? Why should he read it but fortunately still gave me three out of five stars? I'll die outside outside our Eddie right right. Let's let's move on. Then we've kind of skirted around this but just perception of mathematics and I'm interested because you mentioned in the seventies. It certainly really wasn't Sam the cool thing to be studying maths but I certainly got the sense from from talking to kids and also just the general kind of sense from the Public Blick Culture and supply that that it's a bit of a kind of cooler image. Did you get that same sense. Definitely definitely I think that probably the greatest contribution to a change of math is the rise in technology and computing and the tech is kind of cool. And if you WANNA get into coding. It's mathematics skills if he wants to kind of understand how to use your. My phone is all those things you've got to be aware of comfortable around that and also means that who are The pop culture heroes. Steve Jobs says a movie about him. And even people like Alan Shearer egg movie About him now Stephen Hawking so there are lots of really cool and people who wouldn't have been cool for two years ago who are genuinely mainstream celebrities that people think are cool You've got Big Bang theory. Absolutely I guess Silicon Valley A. You've got the kind of the. The culture is a lot more loving and in two computing which is basically my day. It's a branch automatics. Essentially as that is that is really important. I think another thing which copy discounted in massine is different. Is I think in lots of ways. Maybe because we've come a bit more Americanized Mavis kind of X.. Factory type things. People won't be getting people to become rich and famous and I think you learn pretty pretty quickly that if you want to do is make money do math. They level so I think you get lots of people who are quite focused and realize is that you can't say well I'm not good at numbers masses bullring because you dig yourself out of kind of earning potential federal so I think that that means that people take mass research. I mean I think mass is the most popular a-level the moment And I think that's fits. It's also gone for big male dominated to being much more. I think it's almost fifty fifty I don't know about further maths but definitely after Sigma Macedo vote. In general I think in results neither is nothing between them and the universities have a lot more women. I'm not sure it's quite fifty fifty yet. The the problem is dynamic. Staff is very male dominated but when you have just as many girls as guys kind of slight normal thing to do it's not a of a male ghetto when people are doing it because they think it's GonNa be useful and helpful. It's not wide or have to study Algebra. Never get used. Did you say full. I'm sure it must be also because the teaching is better. Teaching is more sensitive to to making children. Not Fail out too difficult to boring Take me off the big Rod being wrong I'm sure the amount of thought has gone into mass. Teaching I is I mean especially at primary level I think that must be reaping benefits. I mean when I was part of the set in the seventies Taes Set theory because they felt the radio abstracts. I can remember just thinking this is completely bazaar. Dick set theories areas like seven-year-olds drawings joying sets with each other and one to one. Correspondence is kind of mad. This was like an experiment then they realized realized this is crazy and his edged. It was Broughton because of the Cold War and in America they felt that I'm splitting. It was before the Americas based program. They felt that the Russians getting really good. That's better science says that he's to revamp science and they needed to actually get kids thinking very abstractly much younger say brought into the new math and knocks Inference in different countries where Orion was against got into the seventies they score. I was adopted this anyway. Then let's stop doing. I moved to England next time. I'd set theory when I was twenty at university but now I think that Parma School. There's no way that they would go that abstract that quickly and there's much more about concrete examples and peers teaching each other so it's not he's plus dribbed so in the classroom of the classrooms that I've visited rascals I think that teaching must have had some effect in my own role in this is I think that's the worst thing in the things that keeps it behind is not the children of today is the parents of today who when the kids go back In the parents I while I was rubbish amassed tube. Oh they'll give them support when the kids to find out how this boring said he he asked that either so I failed but my books originally were aimed at the parents so the parents to say this. This is interesting so that they can actually be more positive role models. It is really interesting. You say that I think you're right I can I can. I can only speak from the teaching side and specifically the mass teach inside. But I think your mom obviously going to sign this. I think the teachers bad sir but the The technology's really helped. Because if I think back even so this is my fifteenth year have been involved in teaching. If I look back and think how I could teach a lesson fifteen fifteen years ago compared to what I can do now in terms of using things like desma Joe Girardi Wolfram Alfred Firepower number file video gaming credible visualizations allies Asians going. It can you can. Just you can just do things that you you just weren't able to do before and for some kids that doesn't matter too much. Some kids are fine with the abstract. Some kids are fine without the technology side. We can just you can just excited make things a lot clearer for so many more students with the technology that's available now and I so I assume it's similar in science but I certainly got the sense that that's not true in all the subjects like English at NFL and all that kind of thing. I think As Safir math really benefits benefits and thea from technology side. That's my perception anyway. I think think with master teachers struggling with all the time. Also the challenge is that in a group of educators. There are the people have different speeds. And how'd you care of everyone and whereas now the so much material around is quite easy to access that if you are one of the brighter ones and he wants to find that something will will you go number file and you define that mall and you just put in Google. You know I wanNA know more bags such such a thing conic sections than you you can kill than Arapahoe so much more easily before. We'll how would you done it. You've Gone Britannica in the school library. And it would be fasting unto unto complicated and dry and likewise just say. You're not back when the top students any need to do exercises is like was he can time those. Yeah that's true. Yes that is the kind of dependent on the teacher providing stuff. Yeah that's very true. I'd say the other thing I'm interested in this whole kind of sexual perception of math. So your your guardian puzzle at that comes out every four which I absolutely love I j kids around I was very Ariella van. Dyke I I tell everyone about Alex. I guess I would have been. So what would you will. What's what's the audience? Who reads reads those the is it is it and as that changed over? DC Benin for four years. Did you get a sense that the audience changing you gauge idea of the makeup of the kind of people read an answer lows at all. So I I. The puzzle is only on line. It's not in the paper and and I can feel the metrics and some puzzles do better than other US and what tends to be the monk Whether a puzzle does well Oh is weather coal act on the homepage so and whether or not I get on the homepage is entirely down to the person who was the editor of the homepage. At the time my puzzle is launched and usually I send them find out who it is instead of Neil saying. Hello can you put it on the front bit. That can be the difference I puzzle. That doesn't get promoted on the front. Might Get ten twenty thousand Max Rights and that will be people who are kind of cool followers right as is probably that's cool follows but when I did one click Bassi ones is smart enough to get into oxbridge for us not to go home is half a million views meanwhile so then most everyone is just an Algonquin Rita. He goes on the front and they just say what are the stories of the day. And because that's the Taste and they go on it. So I have the regulars I said maybe twenty thousand dollars From all over the world and maybe the fickle nature of God God's in readings high am and the. They'll go there when they're given a Beta headline lawsuit does interested. You think I was. I was GonNa ask you about the puzzles is I I can. I can only speak from the experts. Teach here but I know if I make a mistake on something my kids are onto it straight away and never hear the end of it. I can only imagine significantly significantly worse with when you publish a puzzle. In a newspaper. People spent time. Actually if there's any kind of mistake Meshu in there to you and giving you grief left right and center yes it is. It's terrible and people rarely say love that puzzle the puzzle. Yeah if there is some tawny to Typo I will get typical. Alex bellows count spelled such and such so annoying. Yeah I I mean I am in two minds because on the one hand I write this column and even though it looks like a garden and also it's actually a blog because I used to be part of the single the guardian science the Bronx Science blog network which defunct on the eighty one still survives. And I have the case the cost I can get into the system from the only journalist that can do this time. I wrote the story. No one checks exits have no sub-headline meaning it. I find that right. The headline I find the picture. Idle the captions. If I need images I do paper taken offense shot scannon myself led up the garden system. Absolutely everything I try and get my wife to the read copy. I mean she's not mathematician. She's actually it publishing such as she could prove writes the Boston either do that if the math is a bit wrong. She's not going to get that. Yeah uh-huh so I put it out there and it's annoying if I may decide mistake but sometimes I have made a mistake which he's just I've made an assumption. I didn't realize where I've I've stated slot incorrectly and it's kind of brilliant having the stress test which is is showing it to eighty thousand people and then you can tell And the first hour after the public is up. I'm literally sweating and looking and seeing it and if someone says but what about when all oh my God. I can't believe and coffee then I go in. I'm not going to change it. Puts on and say you know clarification updated but it's true that writing about math especially especially writing puzzles if hard just just because when it's done well it looks effortless doesn't mean it is and it's because there are so many you don't want to over explain that his borings arrayed to choose exactly what you say and sometimes sometimes it's a column for the general public in the certain things that you don't want this Where the obvious are excluded? You don't WanNa say he did it. You'd have a whole kind of seventy caveats. It would be boring to raise. So I become quite kind of thick-skinned about actually and sometimes I do things and this this is like a bit risque escape is the puzzle and I haven't probably sold it myself. I'm relying on the fact that someone clever than me actually semi the solution Asia by five o'clock and the way the happens I i. I'll tell you what I was thinking of this is I do know the podcast series. It's called inside exams. Why Interview Examiners? For make you a who he write papers and so on and so forth and as you probably know yourself at the age of social media as soon as kids come ah the Jesus. He maths exam. These days the straight on twitter slagging-off questions left right and center complaining about them and so on and after the you know the making amounted album. Molehill is nothing actually wrong with a question. There's been several high profile cases where questions are either have been ambiguous. All this bid assumptions made eight by the writer that were necessarily be made by the kids and so on and so forth and like they go through low to checks these questions when the being written for these high stakes exams. But he's it's only maybe best case for five or six pairs of eyes. Get to see them so he's no surprises. It like with your writer the when you writing that volume of questions Russians. It's very. It's very easy for these whether you call the mistakes whatever to slip into the nets and particularly with very public when you do it in for the Guardian but could he budget if you were tasked with reiten Jesus Maths exam when the stakes attached a Lotta so high. It's it's almost impossible to together. Kind of perfect paper. Taper full of perfect told her biggest questions. If you see what I mean I I totally agree. The skill of writing a question is very different from the skill of reading reading question in picking holes in it yes finding it finds mistakes in it and I love getting feedback and people able to give great feedback. Have that ability just to look your question and think of all the kind of the ways that it could be sane and saying. It would be clear if you did that. But that has a really special onto the undivided skill. And I guess a problem. The problem with the exams have is that the people certain questions thinking quite similar ways when the sharing around each each other. If there is some kind of mistake they'll be blind to it because they're all thinking safeway so he's like you need to give it to someone who is maybe not quite why is small not quite on the same wavelength so they're not making saying sumptuous as you. You're absolutely right. They again. What you ideally need need to do is is someplace with a load of a decent number fifteen sixteen year olds or we're going to be saying the papal by definition you car because they obviously sealed and so on and so Tokyo fascinated and a couple of other things just on perception of maths? Alex was looking at your on your websites. Call this line here. It says I keep talks to all ages his professions of mathematical levels from primary school pupils to CEO's Tech Specialists and financially busters particularly interested in the CEO's tech specialists and find actually best is what are they calling into talk about. What kind of things is that? I I am also really interested in that because every now and again maybe once a year one of them goes up up and is the best paid work. Yeah he do in terms of minute and very many of those. Sometimes you do I've been asked to because Davis making them this fun. And if you are in Finance Attack Ah accountancy kind of industries. That use numbers you want someone. You have your annual conference will you'll you'll get together and and you want someone to be the kind of oxygen this fake to kind of make numbers fund. So why do to them. It's not try and teach them any maths. It has just trying. You have some fun with numbers so I've got to talk the I've done with them on the survey defined by the world's favorite favorite number which is just quite entertaining. And it makes you give numbers in a different way and I would do something like that. I also you realize At one investor conference by was light entertainment. I gave the talk about favorite numbers and they were a but this time they're a bit like sitting around getting yeah tell Wasn't resonating and then I said I got a puzzle column and his puzzle and I headline is just when I realized is that this these are people who are so competitive that probably like unbearable. Terrible to be around the competitive absolutely everything could with each other with you want. We're richer and bigger. It's all kind of competitiveness best and when he puts a puzzle they will want to be the first person to do. It will be could do it at said. Now when I when I the GO-TO Anything like that I will suggest. Can I do kind of quick. Five puzzles give him getting and of the they call it like things like improbability giving my secrecy I give a probability problems problems because provinces quite easy to parlay that into a relevance with stock markets on Osaze. It's quite easy to catch the knives. And they're going to say the wrong thing and it because a competitive he'd say okay. I'm going to this puzzle. You gotta get it wrong. Sorry you're going to get it wrong and Some they I also think about Wealthier clients is that they have a latest tech so often they have this little widgets or something on the phone they Kendall Votes Question and it kind of listen real time you can see having to give them the right to the wrong not the individuals as a group and so I can say they as a group moving and get rolling than right. I'm GonNa like it was. I'm always rise. And so that's that's quite fun and with this is me perata myself on my website. Try and make myself as much as possible and say with tech specialists A room of they are definitely tax. Specialists was Google liked to get offers end to talk to that stuff and they get all sorts of Otas and a hundred thousand people whip in Google Amazing you busy. It kings cross. I went and I have. The room was packed and I said just just before I gave my talk I said just out of interest who here has masol computer science. Hey level because I was thinking it could the PR team. It could be just like human resources. Must have he has a m might say level Ole Level they open their hands. The Shit Okay and I said okay. Keep your hands up if you also have a degree in math like Evita signs in everyone's hand the state and I was like. Oh my God hockey up if you have a PhD agree that the Hanzel State. Even though I was getting into Google It was it was actually the people who want to pay me tool the if you decide who they kind of like they. Love Puzzles in writing a program is essentially solving a puzzle. And even though the puzzles I showed what kind of classic puzzles I would also show Jesus would if I do slightly different. Lebron essentially the kind of the same material. None of them said and that was too simple because when when you think. He competed signs. If you've never thought about I know the river crossing appropriate yes it's renamed detaining and really quite fun and you want to be able to do it in your head straight away and just talking about puzzles. It's just like telling jokes. It's telling jokes and it's at the same for all ages. So the question is what would you tell these specialists about I took the GCE Z kids because actually ever ever ever ever enjoys material that's interesting. I wonder if one of these exotic that's one of the things that shooting three my attia. Can you get me into Google it. Google I'm sure they pay. Nothing was richest richest riches company. But they have this thing because they think that in your favor because it's cool to give us a call and they'll video it and they'll put on there and it's really annoying and each time. I'm like because they should pay his how to pay bills is however money and then you think is quite fun just going to get to go rhino now. mazing restaurants over free and just look at a loss of the universe is an eye but whether he wants include this bit anyway because of cost. I could recommend that you gave it to you. Final question on this second all the usual disclaimer. That I've been looking to hear you talk a couple of times down. I taught teach almost always make it very clear not a teacher in your. He's not your role to give advice and so on and so forth but with those disclaimers in mind and do you have any thoughts at all if if as teachers listens this. We've got kids in our class. Who just say they hate maths? And whether that's through the parents or whether that's just their own thoughts having struggled with maths over the years and you any thoughts on that whether it's advice eyesore just general Kinda musings on on how best to get kids to tell you that they really don't like the subject to to buy back into a little bit more. Firstly I believe to see me and you haven't come on. Hello I this is the problem. Yeah so it's really hard and has done a case by case basis will is the reason. Isn't that child. Light doesn't like mass. If Ed dyscalculation they have problem with numbers than it might be the case. They're really interested in or they react. Got Well two pictures answer geometrical things I think that masters full of while and the trump found a way of getting that Y and a good way of trying to get that. What is some kind of puzzle? I think the best puzzle to give a Food is a puzzle that they have to look at themselves in their own time and if they get it wrong wrong will make a mistake. They realized themselves. And you're not saying that's wrong because no one likes being said that's wrong and that's why I think the strength strength of those Japanese grid. Logic Puzzles Something like suitable securities isn't it boring. Tried tried and tested. There are some other ones you. Can you give a child. A simple can can say I think can kid is a brilliant Brazil is is is a pretty simple and just describe tag capitalistic familiar with it. So we can't can't it looks a bit like a a In a grid US online by nine that would be massive. You can you can have a full by fall And there are different regions that unlocked and in each region. There is a number in the top corner. And you need to make that number using the digits in that reason region so for example I should say that it still oh by four. It's laughing square. So that would mean the numbers involved a one two three and four at every line and every row so I recall every row has one two three and four lice assisted. I could form so you can have a region the region could have just one square in it but that would mean the corner. The number of said one that would know that the number in that's why would we want if the reason was two and the number in the cold was too well that could bay two times one to two in a one or it could be three minus one okay. So you've got to deduce what digits digits fit in that region and the simple ones are very very simple but so satisfying the pieces together and with his Japanese puzzles. The levels of so wonderfully done that you can give set of Satana them. Where eh anyone you give them to be able to do? The first and then the second was not that more difficult. It's maybe using something that you learned with us one and and slowly you start doing them and you do in Iran time you really motivated. Because you're you've done us when it's quite easy thing. Think you can do it yet. You're you're kind of herbs you know what the answer has to be because if it doesn't fit the state yes and so you realize that you made a mistake steak and then you have to finally made that mistake and actually teaching kind of logical full but it's also teaching self confidence. Let's add life skills. That is fine to make a mistake. But what you need to do is not run away from that. Mistake is okay. I have made a mistake whereas I wrong one back to step backs so I think that those puzzles are really really appealing and teach life skills by stealth and one of the reasons. Why the feelings you get Serotonin kind of buzz. Each time. Micro Oh buzz each time you fill in a square so you every was achieving. Something says not that. Here's a problem you're doing it and NJIT wrong onset Nothing from that. You feel a bit stupid. They might be totally honest. I think that's interesting the rubbish whereas this is a way of kind of building housing up confidence sale. I'm a really big fan of those types of puzzles. Also what I call it like asking questions have cultural questions about mass which in a wider ten numbers and dump system in a while. It's because we got ten fingers will. Could we have another system with another another. Another base Did you know that there are actually some other cultures that do have other bases and people thinking really no they. Don't surely once you start doc questioning the really kind of the basic things and talking about the culture. I think it's I think is kind of interesting in the world was is like without a zero there. These things that people seem to lose being around actually quite recent inventions. I think I think that's quite fun day that I was really interested in that. Yeah I completely with yellow points. I completely agree there about the interesting stuff in the historical background and one thing I thought about two. You mentioned there about the About about puzzles that that child knows themselves whether or not their their rights. Along that that's a really important point that 'cause 'cause off that alkaline with interesting puzzles and to get the kids chumps to think about overnight and they'll come in the next day and there's lots of different pronounces going around and we comedy trust discussion about that but yeah it'd be so much more powerful if the children themselves new if they stumbled upon the right answer a new if they got the right time the three some mechanism it is quite difficult in kind of lots of types of puzzles. Book can can in the other ones like not you know if you've got it right uh-huh yeah. I absolutely that. That's the point. I'm not considered before I realize does does no good right. I wanted to. I want to talk about a Writing about math now. What we've we've already talked about this already? About what kind of drive you to write about mass. We've kind of a little bit but again I just won't be defeated. Maybe kind of want to summarize why you think it's important to to write about the subject. Is it as simple as that. The fight the you like it. You don't think you know all the people like it or is it a bit more complicated than not what why choose Mattis subject to writes about so I feel passionate about mass. I find the days interesting and important and I've discovered this a market for it. We also that that most of it's it's it's a nice way to living in speak by. I also think that the first book I wrote was about Brazilian people but the way that came back I was was living in Brazil. Brazilian football. And I said why would I want to write about presented football. I'm not spoke Football but the sports reporter and they know the size of the Pele's foot it sisal he won the FA companies to that have And then the policy had been Fly To might this book If it was if somebody was obsessed with football it would just be for the obsessive And then I began to think about another actually about Brazil once he wants about the political situation By musical history advice. Racial breakdown I by the kind of indigenous A native South Americans. I'd been wanting to talk about the growth of Brazilian fifties etc.. Football brings these things together so actually my book was using Ebel to rise by this things at once. You start writing a book. You think. There's no point me writing a book. Someone else would be able to write better than me because I should write that you can only write the book any you can right. Yes so I want to rise until I realized that actually the ranch about Brazil was ooh Colorado identity is to be Brazilian and that was. Because I guess I was. I wasn't Brazilian. What was I and so that was a book book written from my perspective where was then then rising about maths? Ironically the book feel the only I could write because I can't write like muscle tired. I'm not professor of Math I. He's so much better at math breath and I am so I couldn't try and write a book which is tragic complicated maths. I totally understand mm-hmm because he should write that book and he doesn't he writes great books. likewise what what am I strings and I think I am unique or In my generation of being someone who has spent time on Fleet Street with mass degree now it's changing and you can do Communication degrees at their whole bunch of people who worked for newspapers who actually studied maths and physics and things like that. But when I was doing it I was newspapers Fifty years and never once met someone who knew anything about massive hole so I felt my unique position was was the I know how to run journalism and I had to Brian kind of long form nonfiction narrative nonfiction by also had a passion fool and understand to certain level to degree level mathematics and this is a unique combination so I should write the book that the person who has skills can do and I fail. That's why try Jay. Which is why when I write writes my puzzle books? Anyone anyone there other mattresses come with perfectly good puzzle books as a guy cooled pizza winkler. He probably is probably the best puzzle. Guy mazing amazing maths professor at Dartmouth in America and he's written a few puzzle books folks and they're brilliant but you can tell the he is I had a PhD mathematician Mass professor they are kind of concise. There's not much background question on some amazingly well puts further reading. I get quite complicated quite quickly. It they are that brilliant. But they're totally him yes I couldn't write that book even though I look at it all I know I can do. Is I now I can fined two hundred puzzles work out a way that the rule linked either thematically or chronologically or geographically old. It's actually in some way and take the reader on a kind of a journey. That means that you can read my books even if you can't do any of the puzzles and I'm so like friendly guide and having Britain Masks bit like that. I've kind of been my stride and I enjoy it. I know I couldn't do it and no one else writes quite like that. So for example. I'm I think that my journalistic training kind of tells so it'll my books. I'm always calling people up into them asking them. What does this mean? What does does that mean? Tell me what you're listening to at the time just to get in the background whereas you have a really good I guess because example to really good books they've come at last year map pockets humble trumbull pine and had a fries world. I couldn't have written out. I couldn't have written either of those books. I couldn't read his book. That's because because I'm not a Sort of data scientists academic who actually works in the area who were in the way a she wrote it. I would have written it in a different way and like why with Matt who by granted is kind of comedy and it goes with companies show and there are a lot more kind of gags setups and stories and the whole Hel positioning is. I'm a funny guy whereas I'm not I mean I think there's humor in mind but I think I liked I'm I'm the Guy Jedi and you're gonna read it like a story story I'm Kinda I'm the storytelling guy as high. I like to feel that. That's what I'm contributing and the the shelf on the Book Shelf says math snap in bookstores libraries which had Basically about it ten years ago now is crammed full of really interesting diverse. Good looks and we'll have all kinds of different points. And the best books of the ones that official to like it was the why they rise against and Y may well. I'm rising because I think I could tell the story with it in a way that will make you enjoy it and why now because there's a market for it and and you do kind of respond. I think you know the type of maneuver. Say you've got problems. A lot of that is we're in a world that makes no sense stuff is happening so puzzles really of the moment. There's kind of even these puzzle books because having people like the comfort of the fact that here's a question. The actually has an onset so much brexit was. The answer is mess. It's a mess with my puzzles. It has an actual answer so I think the where where I I think the kind of contact the book out of the context. I guess that's the context of how I see my role in it. The fascinating again as somebody's tha what one must book anyway attempting to write a second at the moment. I'm fascinated by the writing in process. I am a light reading writing advice. Books Developed Szeswith. These the moment and I'm Kinda regretting. Starting one go down to rob a whole year trying to take all the advice but one piece vice that that seems to be fairly consistent on a wondering your take on this. Alex is Is seems to be. Don't try and kind of rights right to a general audience have kind of a specific and often that they recommend could've writing for one person essentially one person he thinks. This is the kind of person who I'm writing for. Who I think will really enjoy this book? And if you kind of make that focus on that specific that's when you end up making compromises and you treat yourself and what wh- becomes a much more kind of focus book. Do you buy into that what you do. You have a specific audience in mind or you're writing more. Generally what she target audience your intended audience. So I I agree. I don't agree so the bit I agree. Is that when I'm writing. If there's a bit uncomplicated I have not one person who I'm thinking. I have two people I have someone. Who is this kind of imaginary friend? He was like a bit like nate kind of understands it with the standard and I have friend of mine who never studied maths and I imagine I'm surfing a bar and I'm just like touting to telling the story and I I need to get it so that's the one doesn't understand. Maths is going to be interested. Might not understand. It is enough to be interested and the one who wants to have a math. Isn't going to be typically bold food so it's true I do a Mac and gin two people and sometimes when I'm struggling. We'll hack my phrase that I we have an assault experiment. What's the top line? If I was just sometimes sometimes I actually vocalise it. Because it's quite hard staggered a screen in thinking and my wife Repertoire against the ANDROID. Sometimes I'm conscious conscious. Say these things to you. Did you say anything by justice is quite helpful. Even if you're not paying attention to what I'm saying just by vocalizing can I can I talk to you about why was thinking and and it's really sometimes when you went she say something it crystallizes head. So yes I do think about individual people. When I'm trying to express thoughts the as a hull I I I do right For General I think because I want to do is the I want to make the general Interested I I think I got to say something. Whoever walks through that door I could sit down? I tell them the story and they're going to be interested. Yeah so so and that person can be anyone. I guess between the two magic people so I do think about focusing on one person but as a whole I'm hoping the discount to be a broad swathe I mean I think that it might be different from it if you're writing a book it is for teachers. Because you've got the demographics of already quite clear. Yes with what. They know what they're going to be looking for. I think another thing actually is signposting. And that's something that he needs to do a lot when you're writing about maths and you need to buy Soukhanov not be totally August thing is. You're reading a book and I'm GonNa tell you this and then I'm going to tell you that and then again to tell you that right okay. Now now we've done contrived now I'm going to start telling you that yes so you need to do a lot of scientists thing just Hold on you've got to do it not not much the people just think. Oh my God this is like one of those terrible reality show is when people do something they've just done it and etc Sanjay Faucet. I want us before we start diving into some stories from from books. Alex and you met you kind of mentioned Thathew Thathew well-known month's books already that props rattle maybe even been influenced by. I'm going to be harsh. I'M GONNA pretend my dream is to host desert the island discs one day right so as as a vain attempt to emulate a little bit. If you could just choose less maybe limit year to three. I'm going to say three three months three months books that you could take with your onto this desert island you have three. That really stood out. Few is being either particularly joy -able or the show for you that you've read in the past. Yes definitely so. I would say the top of the list of my threats who I think Amazing and I would. If you haven't read these old John Amazon. Read them is a pasta. They will throw as Apostolos doxiadis Jason. He's a great guy. And he wrote Uncle petrels the Goldbach conjecture which is about the Goldbach conjecture and it's fiction but it's actually the best nonfiction book about the Goldbach conjecture which is very simple conjecture about prime numbers. The still unsolved was injected. People Siemens tree but soon proved it and he manages to explain the maths but also tied into a wonderful. ooh Magical story absolutely brilliant and also. He did a graphic novel about Bertrand. Russell could logic comments. LEGIT COMEX is the worst thing about it. Only bad thing about it is the name I think makes is not particularly memorable name. It is ided degree massive flows fate. I think the module on Russell the philosophy of mass. This tells you everything I did in two and two hundred pages ages of graphic novel the lead so much more than graphic of it. It's so brilliantly brilliantly done I didn't if you know is absolutely fantastic. I think that's a brilliant book and another book that I'm going to mention just because I think it's wonderful and listeners will enjoy it but has really done nothing is but cool genius play. Which is a biography of Joel? UNCALL- away he was a British mathematician. His in his eighties now and he's very playful. He's the one who he does. Not so the massive games yes aside and he's someone who he likes to likes to have fun. He invented the game of life. That's famous that ain't even the. He's he's been embarrassed by that because he thinks he's a lot more important things. A bath will ever wants to know that but is written by shoveled robots. Who is I never studied? Maths is just a great survivor. And it's charming and funny and fascinating and you really guests of Conway and thereby what is to be inside of the brain of a genius mathematician. I think it's really. It's it's a really fantastic. He really really really enjoyable and didn't do that. Well when it came out which is a shame cheese and just just for the benefit of listeners. Just say those three toes while Moreton titles in the office offers of Uncle Petrus on the go back and Jansher by Apostolos doxiadis logic low stocks. Saddest and genius play by chivalry robots fantastic. So you've have not. I go to my Christmas. Always they saw what was that wasn't actually the easiest question for me because I'm a shelf in my study which is worrying ab now with my favorite maths books. So there's about twenty five just just looking got them and those are the ones that felt. We're calling me super nice. They're fantastic lovely also right. Well let's turn to some of your books now before we talk about your your new one am. I just just WanNa just give you an opportunity for any listeners. You haven't read some of your previous books props if you could pick out walne kind of favorite story store real puzzle or anecdote just to give people a sense of the kind of thing that are in this if we start with perhaps the most well known for him. Alex Alex is adventures in number one. What what would you? What would you tell people to Hook them in about that particular book? So there's a new story or not almost every page page Because I was probably should have written to but say that What the book starts off with me? Speaking to a linguist who says a lot of the year living taking the Amazon tradition recess psychology research on this Indigenous Community of up tribe. What about The have proper numbers have numbers kind of up to five. But maybe it's only up to folks they don't sure if what is five the number and said this GonNa go totally sucked into the world of the cognition of number higher. Hi what is is about humans animals at highly understand number and university. And what's the major kind of take him point. Is that even though we have this number system which is so one two three four five six seven eight nine. Ten Difference Between Zero and one and wanted to use is the same that we have. This have animals logarithmic understanding understanding of the world which often overrules Linear sense of the world and something as basic as this is a reason why why lots of people kind of struggle with math because number seems that simple but actually that already slightly cut a breaking with Intuitive sense about how our environment works and so that to me was any of that stuff yes and realizing that you can you know it touches on maths but it also touches on education because it's a bad why he finds things things difficult and we. We need to work while we find it difficult so we can work at what to teach in how to make people understand the complicated things. Easy Way I guess about the book about the start and I think that that can Plunging peoples in the sense that the book is about adventures as by people who have adventures with mathematics by people who go in jungle to Investigate understanding of numbers. It's a buy in A. I went to Reno in Nevada to me. The peasant who programs programs almost all the world's slot machines. This guy he does the also slot machines and so you've got the adventures of. I'm I'm having meeting people read intellectual ventures and then you have the epic adventure of mathematics from the Babylonians ready to Eliana Matt. Brilliant Book and again just too much in terms of of of mass books as we know what I'll say nature. We've got a few technical the difficulties with the recording. So I'm currently suffering my mother in Law's House but normally I recall these in my office where I've got all my books and I got pride of place next to FRY's how I guess on on the show while but Is is a couple books. Actually both Alex mentioned them London and through the looking glass in there yet. They're absolutely fantastic. Box Alex now. I wonder if we if we just turned to through the looking glass just briefly just two things about again. I'd like you to share him an anecdote or story from that but also this is just a purely selfish question as somebody's house. I try to write a second book at the moment. I'm I'm feeling this pressure of the difficult second album and that kind of failed the sequel that's navigated to the original. Did you feel pressure that kind of particularly because it's it's called a starts with the same name is with Alex. People people love the first book so much we was the pressure with this did was a huge pressure. The average on the first night wasn't as enjoyable to write I. I one was like a thrill I'd be given money to write about the subject and research and essentially we during the first one the low hanging fruit. You've done that and Nanuli. My God is going to be more difficult as the Subjects and laws are a little bit more advanced sites insights even harder to try and make the accessibility than you do. You think maybe I'm never gonNa make the exponential constant interesting someone who's not. Actually she really interested in maths As it was a struggle at and it took me actually longer to write than the the first one and at the time I came to a point where I was at day this day this stuck in one of the chapters. The Chapter Jerome Of Universal Statistical lose benefits low at ZIP slow and things like that and I was just writing same Kinda judge page again and again and again instead of dislike like different punctuation and making absolutely no progress. And then you you do that thing. You think so long diagnosis is GonNa make it because otherwise we'll let time we'd be s while but actually you gotta come to mind when you think maybe that entire month was was a waste of time but I've just got to realize that I needed to get through second waste of time. The the difficult cycle time is really very difficult. Because you want to make something which is better than the first but also kind of like the first is the first one did well. It's going to be like the first one. But how can you be like it but different. Yes yeah it's it's really hard. It's it is really hot. Glad glad struggle to feel Saturdays. Well tell us a quick story then for Mitt from through the looking breath something to help people to that. That book safe laughs. I'm talking about on. These universal statistical lose one of them which has Benford slow bent as little as the fact that if you look in most data the number one appears as the first digit. I think study seven percent of the time number. Two appears like sixteen point five percent of the time. Is this amazing. It's amazing that happens and it really really can't see it and I was thinking. How can I try to get this benfits little into Make interesting to finish away. Then I found out about this kind of private detective. Frenzy fraud busting instinct. Detective in pulling in America have a so why was on a trip to America chief. You people interviewed him And I was kind of exciting. Is He's talking about how mass made him catch this big fraudster. And 'cause he's American he's he's like tells me that he's got like a gun in the room and locks locks on the outside and there's a little kind of cliques quite exciting an and quite fun and in the end you know what a great way to tell the story because you're not say his interesting idea for mass. They used to catch criminal. You're actually saying this is criminal. This is what he did in gold. The good good volume Americans stories. You've one book with your must. Confess confess of not read. Alex but I saw what I was researching Ching for this conversation. He's football school and he's been a yes. What's that about so Football School is a book series that is aimed at key stage two and it uses football to open the curriculum and I had the idea because I work from home and as a major Michael Ben who lives the way we were I live. And here's what's retirement. He spoke journalist. I've written about the past. That's Kinda At him and we used to go for lunch every few weeks and chats about projects we could do together and we wouldn't it be fun to link his skills heels in being football rights at at my skills as being kind of science writer to do something about signs of football went to show and then talk thus gathering. We realized well. This is what we're going to do. We going to write a book that one the things that I was aware school subjects. That yeah geography is this history. Is that at math. Is that physics. Is that because when you actually get to watch world it's not the they're all subjects. It's like you have the world and every everything else and I was interested in when I write about maths I was. Let's get religion and psychology and philosophy in history music architecture and all those things and I thought that with football. Actually you could use that as a way to rush by the wealth so this is Dan. Football School is a fictitious school wherever lessons about football and each of their full maintainable schoolbooks sees one three in full. And each of the we have a bunch of lessons say geography history maths chemistry biology and is heavily illustration of untested cartoonists and. We would say so in the biology chapter. It's all about football as in Polk's what kids accused as shoot really interested in. And why did that is. Why do we need to go in the middle of again? This is what kids are interested in and et need to go because they need to eat the right food at the right time. Says it's just a great segue into talking about the digestive system and also about nutrition and when you rising full key stage two you can call up slight cold up the club doctor of am top five Premiership club and said interview about two and what you play his aides and when to go to the toilet at highly the hulk Bathroom Etiquette says in the club and he was like if I said I'm writing Say I'm not talking Russians for kids and you get absolutely everything testing. So we've got the physics lesson is had flippable. MAZI lending gravitate WHOA. I went to up to offer his fitness. I was Anees. The Otter is they use computers to measure this stats. They have each Game really game has two guys usually guys that I think actually guys a who have these big kind of two three screens in front of them and that watching the game and each time play has it they click a button each time. They give this. So they are mapping the game to get the data and then they use that data to obviously supply clogs blogs enter. The newspapers. said that was the math. Like one of the mass lessons was like how you get. Dates are in use data by proper we went led to this place in this guy. We also got chopped. His on music way to trump's come from the curriculum for that level difficult and that's quite a lot of times I'd say fifty time rushing football school because they have not been seven football the school drugs and I also go to. What mean Bengals we gotta am? Spike Get schools and we've we've played outfield. We will but they lost year before we were unfilled with Primary schools taken to Liverpool has an amazing time Dacian. And as you know thanks everyone is very close to that level community Saturday. Ah We're involved with that. Which is good fun? Wow that's for those go up so you see fit. Well let's turn our attention for the final a section of the talk to your which I was looking to be sent a copy of. So you think you've got problems and I get a super book. Alex why I can even to this a little bit but why I guess what what. Why writing the puzzle book if I was play? Devil's advocate here. Does the world need. It'll puzzle muscle book. What what what made you think? Yeah I'm going to write one on. I'M GONNA get a frame it like this. So the first puzzle book came at heads of my problems three years ago and the reason why it happened was started. If I I should probably rephrase I was writing math books and then I started to mass and one of the Collins was about puzzled. It was the Cheryl's birth All yes by themselves a big one Latin when big that that was five million people it was one of the top ten stories of the Gods. Yeah and we're not things happened so as a result of that. I said to the Guardian Puzzles aware at science. They can give are interesting. I'd like a puzzle code so they gave me puzzle blog thing which Ni- Ford half years ago and having done it for about a year Richardson was quite good. The the stats are quite good. The Guardian had done on the deal with Faber and Faber. We're looking at things in the Ganges tenants. Books at an obvious was puzzles. They came to me saying you want to do a puzzle book and I was like. I'm sure puzzles that I want to tell the story. I want to tell the history of puzzles. Yes so I thought okay I will do this and only about ten percent of the puzzles that read the book have used in the column because there are things that look on paper. The debt work online at advice last so essentially the first puzzle but was me trying to Millennia Olivet Puzzles and tell the story of puzzles kind of parallel history of mathematics. Traffic's through these fun puzzles where you talk about different mathematicians involved with also kind of clever Amazon involved in these Brennan characters like Henry Dude. A A and then I did that. No okay enough puzzles. I can still do one every. Two weeks These another puzzle book and then I started assets to get really fascinated by the Japanese puzzles. And you know what the so amazing that can be so useful and no one one is done anything more than just these kind of computer generated regurgitates. Cloudy kind of trashy seductive books which fine but you know Using just also pay the same old thing what. That's an interesting way. So I went to light. His wife was a lovely but can actually have the people who what she read it. I I'm until because once you get into these puzzles amazing addictive and then that was two two years ago so I didn't do puzzle but last year and I was thinking if they were reason I I need a reason to do. Justice of Cheddar I read is a very sensitive to something that is being cynically. Not yes I needed to think of a reason season and it was a little bit. This idea that we live in kind of puzzling times actually does something comforting in puzzles. But also I was thinking also the puzzles might WanNa do and I realized loss of puzzles. What's interesting about add? Them is have surprising. onces is this sort of element of surprise and often the puzzles that you never gonNA solve yourself but states As puzzle is a good way of really is creating and building for that kind of wild moments. Aw and say. The puzzles have chosen for this book. A lot are a bad about about surprise about that that why because surprising. Which makes you challenge your assumptions about things and hopefully means that when something surprising happens in the real world irrationally slotting by the prime so there are five chapters in different areas and the final final chapter? which is almost a house? Olympic events is about probability and why property is very difficult at very counterintuitive people. Find it quite with randomness. And there's little challenge. I wanted to tell the history history but kind of summarize basic probability done through talk through Providence Puzzles. Because there'd be some really interesting probability puzzles and I you think of probability puzzle. Is that usually incredibly simple to stay. Yes because it's just about you know people being bullied on the second day running at dice Ole oil choosing a door or something like that so that was because I thought that was a wanted to do it was. It's not self help guides but something which is kind of self. Evidently useful in puzzles are in standing fun but also so that quite useful and I. This book is if you are to do the puzzles. Think about them and then read the discussion at the back back and the type of books that I do. I think I mentioned before. This cost often. The a discussion of the answer is interesting. Yes so you can't have a puzzle. which is a budget puzzles? That ended a bunch of the answer's. Twenty Five I. I mean that's a that's just like no fun. You've got to kind of talk about. The answer. Did Not get it. What was difficult to fats at what I did hear some further reading and so that's what I wanted to do? I wanted to use the the style of puzzle book I'd done was cancelled like problems. which as more discursive live took a lot ball but focus on puzzles that? Have a real element. Surprise Puzzles. You just kind of can't quite quite believe the answer tested. I said obvious question is why. Don't you get puzzles from. And I've often wondered is a some kind of like copyright right issue or the ownership issue pulls how it is you trace the original source of at these puzzles pretty question and it's really really difficult From people send the men. I've got dozens. Dozens of puzzle. Books said the Internet. That is a Welsh wave sites on puzzles etc so getting replaces and ready to I come up with original puzzle myself but puzzles are like kind of effect poetry. They invented and reinvented. Reinvented in Polish deadline. Unlike change for the age. And why see my scale is a funding one is kind of relevant reshaping polishing presenting inventing it in combination with puzzles. That makes it at an interesting kind of contemporary discussion That's that's why getting from. I believe I company or has a shape believe there is no copyright. I believe in you can't you can't copyright appear on idea copyright the results and the puzzle is essentially mathematical results. So what you can't. Copyright is the words of a puzzle recall. You call actually helped around the puzzle so I'd only get done for pleasure if I ever bought. Take all the puzzles I do. I say where I got the problem and I always right in my n words right in my own words. Yeah because I don't want to say this comes from another book and his verbatim it's a because it's copying but almost all the books that you get drummed they've come from somewhere else that's interested and the you've mentioned rub east away a couple of episodes ago and he's he's obviously massively puzzles as well and he described himself as a puzzle security and would you are you. Are you the same or would you consider yourself. Yeah Dole's you say. But you've you've done a few originals originals of your own view as well yes well so for example in the new book a puzzle that I guess I wrote the puzzle. He's still that yesterday. A click so in then you here's an example of what could be an original I'm not sure whether I thought it would be fun in to get back to FIBONACCI's problem about rabbits that to the the the FIBONACCI numbers one one two three five than you at two consecutive times in the next one comes from five five five nine. She's famous puzzle. Bats the breeding reductive Behavior of rabbits from eight hundred years ago and I thought such written about this but no one is actually the question was he writes about the rabbits whose rise by the math was right about the rabbits so I did a new puzzle. DOC which is five matchy with Scientific accuracy because when five BANACCI Every month Robert Peg is birth another robin and every six months and it takes one month for ravaged become fertile and I just I just checked. This was true not true. Take six months for rabbits become fertile and every month they can have six they can have a litter of six. Wow so I this is a fun. Puzzle was less. Do FIBONACCI's not just puzzle again with scientifically accurate data about the reproductive rights. And where do we get and it turns out I'm giving a spoiler here. This is a puzzle which has a surprising results. You probably wouldn't want to work through a computer because if a a rabbit a single rabbit female rabbit if she becomes fertile after six months if she then has six rabbits Abbott's every month lifespan. Wage LESS ON ROB IS SEVENTY S. What can be seventy is that each of her offspring will say Her and we say that of let's add three girls three boys. How many total? They've what's that was the size of a family when when she's dying. Wow this is a family and you'd think few thousand yet. Yeah maybe isn't maybe maybe a million what it is something like twenty six trillion genealogies turns out is more rabbits than the have been humans that have existed ever so that is amazing. That's right so so it's I invented that but anyone else that it was like view Klein trae cool off or something like that but it was just a sense of looking at. What's been around and had to rephrase it for the Modern Day to have fun and does something which is such a surprising while the thing that actually if you took away predators and all Problems of getting food. Rabbit in that lifeline climb would outrage humanity. Amazing I'll tell you there's two things that make you say well. Then there's the results of puzzle but also Alex I think I've been saying Saint Saint FIBONACCI. If I've been saying that wrong all all the time how you pronounce his name. They're and I'm on fire. I five hundred hundred eight. Maybe that's just because I'm I'm a southerner I'd like a little not change. The Chelsea's are your probably likely to be right. It'd via bound so I think I'll go without much. Change outlets goes goodbye just again. This may be an impossible question. Alex do you have any criteria about what makes a good puzzle. We sister anything you're looking for is it is it. The surprise is that a key aspects or is otherwise features. You're looking at the difference between a puzzle and the problem is a puzzle. Title is entertainment. Have something that's going to have something that's fun or entertaining Bassett and obviously it's not clear cuts but when I'm looking for something is got to be a musical satisfying and this is going to be. The there are different ways that you could make something entertaining. It can be because it's a surprise that something something it can be that the setup is is whimsical can be. The process of deduction is easy the in satisfying the for the very first logic puzzle. which is the one you guys traveling with the wolf ago? A Bunch of Cavite bridges than guests to a riverside needs to cross sees a boats GonNa take one thing at time that ticks oversold almost the the perfect puzzle I setup is just funny he s and his wife is these things with him and you're imagining. This cabinet has carry the cabinet is. It's funny then to solve it still that difficult and it's really satisfying eliminating the things. ECON do what it has to do. So that's fine and the president deduction Guessing that and then the answer. which is that he needs to takes six one thing over back again over again? It's kind of country injured. Yes so you've got a slot element of surprise that that you've realized that everything across Sega. Take something crossing them back in which you would have thought that's a waste so I think that that has everything The puzzles have one of those things. Rainy Ivica Whimsey Huma surprise surprise or kind of pleasurable process of deduction. That's nice talked about just the hot greed is in. We always get there we got we got rob east the way to do this. I mean is there a puzzle that you can set Thir- The listeners. We we stop this for the first time. This podcast. Maybe five years ago. Every guest used to submits opposable again. He'd not just trying to die the death but I'm looking to to resurrect this now. Alex is reportedly. You can just give us a bit of a teaser. FELICIA's to be thinking about as incentive they. Can I get you to find the answer that it's very difficult. Because what works orally yes not works on the page. So I'm just flicking through the book. Now I'm just thinking if there's something really it really of this. The word stressed is the longest English would to have which property they get a vote. The the word stress for longest English words of which property flipper. Yes yes I going to be driving fun sausage tally right well to bring things to close before. I'm not a big three. We will also keep Desola- security just to reflect. He goes deep or shallow as you are with this but this is an example of something impulsively. You've changed your mind about thing thing that I have completely changed. My opinion is superstition about numbers and favorite numbers. So when I started off I was very much piping Who's got favorite numbers Whoever the age of five the ending about Absolutely ridiculous superstition is likely kind of medieval people. And then I started looking into favorite numbers and also notices the fact that in the Far East down much more superstitious purpose dishes about numbers and much will play with numbers that we are in the West but also interesting they allo better rhythmic analysts frayed arithmetic. And do better. It'll these standardized national tests league tables. At first inched instants contradiction and then I have made the realization. I think actually a contradiction. They is true that Y- in a in China that terrifies the full. Because it sounds like the word for death at my ever saying full you would never give any one a gift of full things a have full florals it. It's a bit like thirteen. Here is stronger and is a number appears a lot more times thirteen the else okay and it is an amazing anecdote actually that in America with a gopher demographic data Lisa it turns out that the Chinese American Japanese American communities death by heart attacks bikes on the fourth of each. Wow the only way of explaining it is because because it's the death of each month so some kind of is so worried about. I'm not suggesting that people become superstitious. That they're going to die on the fetchy in a way that Diana full month but what it means if you do have a strong wrong kind of the belief about a number four unlucky you'd have pretty good with take so that you never left before of something. Thank you GONNA buy. You got three kids and you want to Some cookies for them. You're not going to buy twelve cookies. You'd have to get age at. You could ever do that so I fail that these cultures a much more suspicious fishes but this is a little fun with numbers. There's a lot more kind of number. Puns with numbers The Japanese Chinese Flying turn why research our lot more Into that kind of talking about the emotional negotiation with number and I'm sure leagues into the fact that they are less afraid of the actual arithmetic so now rather than Poo pooing hiring people with half favorite numbers. I like tightly encourage people to think about numbers in an emotional way in math. LASCA way because I think the do you just have you play with numbers in your life the more intimate you out with them the less afraid you are of arithmetic and the con- convalesce the less afraid. You are of numbers. So I've taken to change my point of view on the ice of thing that's talking numbers with silly now. I actually think that it's it's really positive and helpful and this kind of cultural change. If we were all talking about numbers all the time we would be better masters Masek till last postulated not so for for beat on the show one of my speed data while the first question is what is your favorite now. Obviously I'm fall to professional to name names but I've had quite a few quite high profile guests on the show who email correspondence have said evolving robin onslaught. Question is a bit of a daft question. Can we get straight to the series stuff. But now I've got counterargument now. Thanks throughout Alex. Oh totally so when I go give till sometimes sometimes I talk about things like they've numbers and it is probably the only subject that is of equal interest to the people who Really like methanol very good at it as people were absolutely brilliant and love it. Yes there's about. Ten percent of people hill who Doctors Sick I don't get involved but you go into any group of people say who he has got a favorite number and it was about three quarters of the room no no matter what age the ability what gender and so either already one. Yes is the room. I think it's like a great way. Did talking about other things and I never would have thought I would have said that because I thought it was kind of semi-adopted but actually I think it's brilliant and rich and positive for the whole field. I'll I'll keep that question. I think super well final question for me for big three. What you wish he'd know were you? I started out in your career that you know now that journalism was about to die and the publishing was that I think I feel. I've just been jumping off. Shit as the hell. The entire industry is collapsing. So so it's really hard to answer that question but I just I have been you know. I was a journalist until it was impossible to be jealous anymore because they just wanted to any jobs and I've been lucky to make a living from publishing. The publishing is also suffering and kind of freaking So maybe if I had predicted way. The world's going to change as I would have not always be he kind of scrambling around trying to jump to the next thing you you've you've got elliptical pool tables to fall back on I the J. J. Okay so to wrap things that we always give gasset opportunity to to give their big three so this could be three websites. Blog posts equate anything. You want it up with links to these on the show but what would you recommend our listeners. Checkout Alex Okay I'm GonNa say three things Linked to where I am at the moment The first one I was the things that I imagine. no-one no one said before. So it's new. If you haven't gone to Tanya cove novas puzzle blog you really should. Wow absolutely brilliant. Say that they become Alex Tania. Cova Nova that's K.. H. Lovie A. N.. Va Yup and she's been She is a Russian Jew. Markovitz said he is mathematician and she has written this kind of personal puzzle blog. Full fifteen years and she is the Maven of the puzzle wells in America anyway she. She's she's pretty much fantastic stuff that this is really in fact. She's the person who designed the puzzle. The is on the cover of Kennedy problems. She's the kind of Meta puzzle. Five shapes Yes wow that's great cuss. Never I have a very strong star light up. The other thing is I mentioned. I've pullen I find out about the linguistics Olympiads I I would recommend going to. UK Linguistics Olympiad. That's UK. Hello the all hang on just finding hello is the UK Linguistics Olympia. You find it. I'm sure that you as you as you play yes you clint and the other one is a bit bit more random having go into these