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"eric eric vance" Discussed on On Being with Krista Tippett

On Being with Krista Tippett

11:25 min | 11 months ago

"eric eric vance" Discussed on On Being with Krista Tippett

"I'm Krista Tibetan a bit and this is on being today. We're exploring the brains theater of healing also known as the placebo effect with science writer and reporter Eric Eric Vance so he I noticed because I was I was reading articles that have been written about your work and interviews. You've given an I noticed that that there was still this kind of dismissive nece and defensiveness in the science journals right what they picked up on was and we haven't talked about this when we push the the no CBO which which is actually the same. It's that same power of believe it's the it's the dark side of that which is power fear and that I mean that also talk about something that has relevance and all kinds of things about our life together these days and in the world so they picked up on that mass hysteria caused by our brains and the scientific American podcast interview do and the title was your brain is so easily fooled and national geographic. Here's what placebos can heal and what they can't yeah. He was very hung up on that 'cause it's you know Y- ah there's this desire to sort of like put limits on it and I think it's important to put limits on it but yeah it's worth mentioning in the CBO's are actually probably more powerful than placebo servants we have is that is that they they're easier to create and they last longer. We'll see a little bit about so no CBO's is a it's a think of it as you know if a placebo is this will make your pain go away thinking no CBO is this is really going to hurt. You know him do this thing. It's really GONNA be ready. It's really really GonNa hurt hurt like that. I mean you can feel my saying that like there's this it will hurt. It will hurt really hurt these studies they do basically a lot of them are give someone pain and then depending on the story. You tell them rates that pain is higher or lower than what someone have. They didn't have any story. That's a lot of the placebo research the way it goes does and that higher pain is the no CBO and that applies to a lot of other different things in the world now they're hard to study because you can't you you can't go to a Parkinson's patient and give them a pill and say this is going to make your Parkinson's worse does that no one should ever do that. So this is where you take that you take that that desire our brains have to be predicting and preparing and you turn it in you you channel and into fear and there's any say there is nothing more powerful than happens in our brains and bodies and fear utilise interesting story about how you ran against this in yourself when you had to vaccinate axon eight your data yeah Yeah I you know I'm a I'm a science writer written. I've seen the data written about Autism mm-hmm and written about vaccinations. There is no connection I I've seen it but when you when that guy pulls out that big old needle and comes out to your kid you don't rationale rational thought is not what's happening like in I was worried about you know autism with my kid and th the the the science writer part of my brain was so embarrassed about the only guy where this guy came from and so rather than not say to write a story for NPR about it which may or may not idea but but the point is not you autism thing like the point is like the power of fear and that's you know and and that's for a science writer you know like it. I understand fully why the anything with with your kids is you know why there's so much fear around you know not just vaccinations but a lot of things with your his because it's powerful it's powerful and and if you think about it from an evolutionary perspective it makes sense like you know which is more important. you know feeling to have have as surviving in the in the forest like fear or hope and fear because that'll keep you from again eaten by the lion so it's it's it is it makes sense why it's more powerful but it's definitely and the acknowledging the thing acknowledging this the the is is the most important thing understanding that these these things exist and that none of us are immune to them. I can't damage people say oh look. I'm not a sucker but ECHINACEA really works. It's like well you know you are sucker but so am I were all suckers. Every one of us and you know ECHINACEA if it works. I'm not gonNA say anything and I also think uh-huh taking seriously the power fear is really important. I was at Stanford earlier this year and had had a conversation with some physicians in the medical school and they're working with young residents who sometimes end up counseling of parents who don't want to vaccinate their child right and the conversation we were having was about was very very pragmatic. It was it was about how can that be a fruitful productive conversation and the fact is that that the young residents it ends as I was hearing often went into that really dismissive of the fear annoyed with it kind of like you were annoyed and embarrassed by it annoy like you were in when you were there in the doctor's office these warring parts of your brain we're having tonight and yet we would be applying our more complex intelligence from what we're learning through science about ourselves and our fellow humans to not honored the ear rationality but to honor the fear because the right the only way because actually what happened. was that true that the doctor. I'm remembering it now did he. He said at some point I think it's done. Maybe you need a lollipop. The doctor could so upset so you yeah I just honestly that was quite right. That's actually what's needed when we're dealing with something that is about humanity like it or not attractive never not that we deal at a human level with each other I think in all of this what is needed empathy we can all start at least coming coming. You know these findings some bridges to bridge the gap but if you guys haven't been on twitter and seeing the wars between sort of rationalists and people who are alternative medicine people like they're they're not nice and and if we can use the same language understand that the people's experiences they are real and there were having the experiences and frankly if you can rub crystal on your on your arm and have Pingo way you are the lucky one like your rational friend who doesn't have any of these ear or unlucky your brains pharmacy and you have a tool that they don't like it. Yeah you had that capability to unlock the drugs that are already in your brain and and you can something people can't like that. Is You give me the choice I would much rather be that person and then just stay in pain yeah then just painted okay to be Andy Right that doesn't help I'm Krista Tippett and this is on feeing today with science writer and reporter Eric Vance. We're at the Pulitzer Center in Washington. DC So Liliana Maria perceives the executive producer of on being is going to facilitate the yes read some from all of you. The first question is for Eric. Can you talk a little bit about why the placebo effect wears off. What's actually actually happening in the brain? This person says that they once had acupuncture for pain with amazing results but the effects wore off after a few weeks and subsequent acupuncture treatments has zero effect on the pain pain yeah that is a great question so puncture soon as pain again the thing is most often unstudied is pain. you have to reset the way the brain actually perceives pain and simply sort of having a placebo placebo rush of endorphins which what we're talking about the dodgers opioids but other word from this endorphins is not resetting the brain. It's getting Russia endorphins and so oh resetting the brain is not easy. That's what we're talking about. If it's chronic pain let's say stomach pain and there's something going on in your stomach like that will surfer's out again mechanism will come out again and even if it's just a mental pain like fibromyalgia or something like that that will reassert itself and to actually reset and make that pain away. It seems to be a much longer process and we don't understand that we also understand different people how they respond to that. This question is tied to that a little bit which is do you have a a hack or an easy way for people to teach themselves tap into their brain gets to talk about hypnosis. This is amazing. This is the those fascinating thing that you are so that hypnosis to you is a way to channel this stuff. Well what's interesting hypnosis. It's actually not placebo because you can give people. There's this drug that makes placebo effects. Go Away and hypnosis still works so it's definitely other mechanisms that are involved and why it hasn't been studied more like we've even you know doctors have been doing it since the mid eighteen hundreds and it got a bad rap for a bunch of differentiating reasons read about but like I always always pointed to Bram stroker's Dracula if you look at the difference between when the book was written and when the first movie came out with a book written the good guys did hypnosis and that's how they found Dracula Dracula by then the movie came out it was a bad guy who was doing it noses so it got a bad rap but it is like the problem is is it doesn't work on everyone and maybe you had to be hypnotized and certain people who are not very nicely said it's a talent to be. I don't have it and like as I tried to get hypnotized a few times. I am hypnotized. I think we yeah now. AETNA doesn't work so I'm low on the scale so I don't really have that the tool available to me but that's that's a great how to hack all the hacks that you are very from one person to the next and I I always say throw yourself all the way like alternative medicine through yourself all the way but leave like one foot out like try a bunch of different because because the storytelling is important so maybe homeopathy story doesn't resonate like acupuncture story but don't let someone tell you you know not to go to a doctor especially if it's a serious disease because there are people who what you mean by keep one foot in one foot out and you know and don't don't put your life in jeopardy but yeah the attack would be look for stories that resonate for you and if you.

CBO writer Eric Eric Vance Krista Tibetan reporter Dracula Dracula AETNA Krista Tippett twitter dodgers Bram stroker Parkinson Washington Pulitzer Center Stanford Russia NPR Pingo DC