20 Episode results for "Emily Dickinson"
Emily Dickinson's Gardening Life, Marta McDowell
"This is cultivating place conversations on natural history and the human impulse to garden certain from north state public radio in northern California. I'm Jennifer Jewel. Emily Dickinson was a gardener. She was also an iconic poet. And and this week we enjoy a conversation. With Garden Writer Marta McDowell to hear more about how the two callings intermingled in the life of emily only Dickinson. Welcome Marta arm so happy to be back Jennifer. I also happy to have you. I will note that this makes you the all all time. Most interviewed person on cultivating place. Marta so we should have like a drum roll. Happy to have Marta back back. So I have given you a little bit of an introduction but remind listeners and tell new listeners of whom there are a great many a little a bit about your own current practice in what you do as a writer what you do as a gardener of course while I consider myself self a garden writer and really I do a lot of things that you can append the word garden too you so I teach about gardening. I lecture about gardening. I they do some consulting on gardening and I very much garden myself as well and tell tell us just a tiny bit about your current garden and partly why I want you to describe this for listeners is that it bears the beautiful traces traces in threads and clues of almost all the books you have worked on which I think you like to describe as being at the sort of intersection of the pen and the Trowel trowel. Yes so the reason my garden is overcrowded. Just definitely read too much and so when I read about a an author who likes to garden I want to grow. Grow what they grew it. It's like a little link through time as if I could reach out I- fingers and touch them. I'm in a way that is not the into page which you know we so often encounter a writer through the printed page but actually through this medium medium of plant yeah give us an illustration of how this has worked for you. So and I I say this again to just illustrate this wonderful crossover that you include in all the books that I have read of yours. which is sort of how to have a garden in like this person would have had a garden and this was true in the Laura Ingalls Wilder Book and this is definitely true in the Emily Dickinson Book? And I believe it was true in terms of at least plant lists in all the president's gardens as well. Yes I seem to like to count. Things are always very long-planned implant list. must be some like personality type but my garden is. Let's see it's a garden of about a half an acre occurred. It is in a suburban neighborhood. My house is not new. It was built in nineteen twenty nine. Which means it's approaching one hundred years old? It sits on the front of the property so in the front. I have only only things that aren't lawn in the back. I have a tiny so-called lawn although most people who who look at it probably wouldn't call it that and I have many trees my one little patch of son I have flowers ars and herbs and then I have a woodland garden in the back and I think that's the one. Interestingly that Emily Dickenson has influenced the most because she did do a lot of wildflower collecting in wildflower walks and so in her home in her letters there so many wildflowers and she's she's from Massachusetts. I live in New Jersey. You know basically. That's a little colder where she is but I can grow most of the things that she would have found and in the woods around amherst Massachusetts so things like blood route. You know what a what a great emily Dickenson glanced right. Yeah you know You know just so many of those little spring ephemeral the things that bloom in in the spring and then completely disappear at least in my garden by the end of the summer. And then don't pop up again until next spring Burton. Yeah so you've been a gardener far longer than you've been a garden writer and you've been garden writer for a very long time now. How did one become the other and tell us about emily? Dickinson's role in that. So the the minute I had a little patch patch of earth which was round. I duNNo. Let's say nineteen eighty. I started to garden and started to just WanNa grow growth things in in a way. It didn't matter what the thing was. I just really discovered this connection to the soil and and Emily Dickinson happened entirely by accident. It was when I was in a completely different life I was. I had a job in corporate America. I would go on these trips from Lil. You know the head office in New Jersey and go out to visit insurance agencies at in this case ace and I was going across Massachusetts visiting agencies and I had a spare afternoon and I I literally told off into a higher a rest area and stared at the brochure wreck. Can you picture that yes again right. And so there was the thing for the Emily Dickinson Concerned Museum and I thought Oh hit studied Emily Dickinson you know. Let me go up to the museum and so I called. I'm sure on the pay phone and and said can I still make it. And she said Yes yes come and I found out that day Emily Dickinson had been a gardener and the door opened opened for me. I'm I suppose was poetry. It was like you know two roads diverged in the Ray Right right and so I just I. I absolutely became obsessed with Emily Dickinson and her gardening interests. And so that was a round nineteen eighteen ninety eight Two years later I I left my corporate job. I published an article about Emily Dickinson. I you know I just. I took another track. I started studying gardening. You know more seriously and you know kind of building up. I don't know and then you know I published a book in two thousand five and two thousand ten. I worked with the New York Botanical Garden on a big shows. You would think I had planned it right but I did just happen. It just happened. And and somehow the universe the collective consciousness the the seeds dormant in your own soul Found you took took you and grew you along this path and it was It has taken several kind of guises since then But Emily Dickinson was definitely the start. And when you say you published a book in two thousand five. That was your first book on Emily Dickinson. The first edition of this book is that correct. Yes and that was my first book about gardening and the same likewise with the big exhibit at The New York Botanic Tena Gardens. That was all sort of botanic garden exhibition about Emily Dickinson her gardening life and her gardening hardening motivation as well. Correct yes and I should say you know. This is the value of going to a museum right right. You know it's like you may not think anything in particular about a museum but you know it really something can touch you. And I've stayed involved with the museum really from the start. So that's been a continuous thread. And when you say the museum you are specifically referring to the Emily Dickinson Museum Museum in Amherst. That's right so you know they've been lovely to work with through the years on various programs and I work in the gardens. And you know it's it's it's really been great so I mean I I definitely want to get to that. I want to hear about your gardener for in residence Experience which I think is just so wonderful and volative and inspiring to me and I'm sure many other listeners as even a concept Marta. But let's go back to that very first article then burning into a book the first I kind of iteration of what is now your second edition give us just a basic. What were you trying to accomplish? What were you trying to document went in there so that we have the context from which to understand how this updated one is is different and expands on that original regional heart? So for me. The big surprise was that Emily Dickinson was a gardener. I don't think think of her never popped into my mind because the poems that I knew were things like oh because because I could not stop for death he kindly stopped for me. They were all along. That line of death and immortality and and I had this image of someone standing at a bedroom window in a white dress and I think that many people share that you know if they know Emily Dickinson they know of the name that image would sort of pop into their mind. That and that you know sorta pulled back hairstyle that you see in the area type and I wanted to say look. This was a person who had this interest. That's totally counter to this idea of this. ghostly hermit yeah you know stuck indoors you you know. And I'm not saying that she wasn't reclusive because she was she. She didn't go out in society in her later years. That's all true. Who but despite that she still garden so you know she got outside anyway? Yeah Yeah and I I want to And I think this is a great time to do it before we get into the details of who she was Gardner. And what we know about that. And and some of the more current research and Interpretive Materials being Put out into the world about this but why does this matter. Marta and I think it's it's actually really fascinating like why isn't important at a variety of levels that we up end this myth of this incredible poet and what inspired her how she took care of herself what she found valuable in the world world. Why is it important that we changed that? From the myth that was created early on almost as a sales pitch and what is actually true about about her to me. It's water the sources of creativity. Now you can still. You can appreciate shape Emily Dickinson. You can study. Emily Dickenson entirely without knowing that she was a gardener. I don't WanNa take away from her. Creative live genius as it stands alone but you know just as when you find out. I'm going to pick like the Beethoven Hoven was deaf right. It sort of puts it in a different context. And you go. Oh you know so. There's someone who had this. You know terrible disability and still be genius in musical composition. So you know. It's that Emily Dickinson had had various sources for her creative output and so the garden was a source for her but it also wasn't different outlet. Right it was a different way. She was expressing herself and the the vast fastness of her genius was she could take these sort of everyday things and distill them into something that speaks. I can speak to all of those. Yeah and I was thinking about this over the weekend in preparation for our conversation today and one of the things that occurred to me is that by by providing this real life woman with a more three dimensional persona sonal in the common understanding and the current understanding. We actually we add a little bit of fresh air and health and three dimensionality -ality to all of the people we might consider creative or artistic or or talented and that to know that she she was actually quite a happy and Inter related person with her family and with her friends through letters through the garden through plants food and community. You add this sense. That creativity can come with great great happiness and health as well not this sort of again mythic idea. And I'm not to say that she wasn't sad and as you note her neuroses postseason her later years were very real but they almost never didn't include this very soothing grounding an inspirational relationship with plants that she had absolutely and and some of you know her networking if you will. There's a a recent Dickinson scholar named Marta Warner that that published this book called the Network Recluse Right so her networking also included plants and flowers so she sent pressed flowers hours to people she made knows gays and left for people There is a an author that I'm doing some work on now named and Francis Hodgson for net. Who wrote the secret garden she had lunch at? Emily Dickinson's brothers home. Who who lived next door? And she recounts in her diary that she received this unusual poem. We don't know what the poem was from my host sister on a bed of heart disease which were little pansies kind of it. It grabs my heartstrings. That this was all part of a and I guess you know I should really like read a poem because we've been talking cream. Emily Dickinson and and so I picked this one for you because it includes your name and because it has vis the sense of I don't know like the FM role and it. It goes like this. I held a jewel in my fingers angers and went to sleep. The day was warm and the winds were pros e I said Twelve Cape. I woke and Chad my honest fingers the gem was gone and now an MFS. Remembrance is all I own. I'm Jennifer Jewel. And this is cultivating place. Martin McDowell is a writer and Gardner living in New Jersey. She's always been interested in and writers who garden and Gardiner's who write her first book and the one that pulled Marta fully into the field of garden. Writing was Emily Dickinson's gardens a celebration of poet and a gardener published in two thousand four. Were speaking this week with Marta to hear more about her updated book on the Topic Topic of the beloved poet. Emily Dickinson's gardening life. The plants in places that inspired the iconic poet published by Timber Press. We'll we'll be right back after a break for more. The literacy of gardening never fails to amaze me and the way that Martin McDowell plums. These depths is likewise inspirational. I'm honored to be in conversation in person. Person with both Marta McDowell and another gardening Shiro Margaret Roach on the evening of March nineteenth at Oblong along books in Salisbury Connecticut as part of their White Hart Speaker series. Marta and Margaret and I will be discussing the gardening lives we lead. And why and how this matters in our world at this point in time. Marta and Margaret are both profiled in my book. The earth in her hands uh-huh seventy-five extraordinary women working in the world of plants. And I could not be more thrilled to be together with them in person for more for information on this event which I'm hoping many of you will attend. Make sure to check out the events tab. EXCAVATING PLACE DOT COM now now back to our conversation with Mara about Emily Dickinson and the Artistic Literacy of this beloved gardening poet. This is cultivating place. Conversations are natural history in the human impulse to Garden Gardener and writer. Martin McDowell's newest book is Emily Dickinson's gardening life the plants and places that inspired the iconic poet. Marta whose previous books works include. Bear tricks Potter's gardening life and all the president's gardens is a writer who deftly contextualized his the importance silence of gardening into the lives of prominent people whom we know better for something else like being poet or president. We're back now now to hear more about the importance of plants and gardens to one of the world's favorite poets. Emily Dickenson to me. This power is has she. It's on two levels and again. This is why I think helps to understand that. She was a gardener and she worked with plants. I held a jewel. Well in my fingers so you know a jewel is a stone. But I think she's talking about a couple of other things. She's holding a flower for maybe a flower that shoes picked and you know she dozes off and she goes. Oh it'll keep but it also could be. I had this just like little poem in my mind. Yes and I didn't write it down right and then I woke up and I was really mad because it was gone and now all I have. Is this very jewel like remembrance. This amethyst remembrance is all I own and it's funny because when yeah I read when I read the poem and I forget which season it is but we'll get into the structure of the book and a second I definitely thought of you know being Out in the garden and Picking some flowers or or even maybe inadvertently knocking a flower off of its stock and holding it in my my hand while I finished my task before I can get it inside to put it in water and or then forgetting it whether by does off his unlikely but I could have left it on a side table while I was doing something switching the hose and then I forget it's there and it's gone and that speaking to the ephemeral of both creativity and are living plant life and any moment in time was is just really powerful to me and very visual as well as intellectual when I read it so you have this poet Shea definitely tense to walk around with an envelope and a pencil because in the archives at amherst college they have all of these fragments and their little pieces of paper Sometimes there are things like chocolate wrappers. Here's or envelopes. That she has opened up so that she can. I remember my mother. Doing this piece of paper was ever thrown out in our household Well before recycling but you know she would use every little bit because paper was precious and and Dickinson would have something with with her when she was maybe outside or working around the house and and she would you know sort of scratch things down so she wouldn't lose but you know you never can do that all of the time and so I feel like this sort of captures that yeah. Yeah so between the first book that came out in two thousand and five and in this book. You've you've you've updated a couple of things in the book Trying to recount and bring to life how she gardened throughout the seasons how she gardened throughout the the her life and what we know about those will you describe the Ark of the book and then we'll get into some of the details of what we do know and how much we've actually actually learned based on archaeology and found papers and the work of the museum and other scholars so the book is structured around around both her life and the Ark of a year. So I tried to do my best to marry those two and talk about her early years along with Spring and you know as she gets older we move into summer and then you know she. She owns fully and adults in middle age autumn and the end of her life in winter and I took out a lot of things interesting from the first book. Doc I had a lot of sort of garden hints and little sidebars and I just went through and imprisoned. Yeah I- pruned and pruned to make room for new material. And you know I really wanted to to tell people about going to the museum about how to plant a garden then if you wanna Poets Garden what you can plan what you might need to do and just connect all of those things to Emily Dickinson to try to make it alive for people. Yeah so tell us about the research that has taken place between between the first time you wrote the book and now and some of the different resources whereby we know what her gardening life was. So we're lucky you know we end me. I'm lucky because People saved her letters letter. She received all went up in smoke literally. Her sister Burns them after her death at Emily Dickinson's request but people seem to save the letters they got from her. If you have a chance wants to read them I have a lot of excerpts in. But they're wonderful in their entirety. If I had one wish it would be. I wish it could be a correspondent with Emily Dickinson. Her Letters. You know like I would say oh you know it got really cold cold so I brought my plants in a hurry you know. What she says is the plants went to camp last night? You know it's like Oh what a a beautiful way to say it. The plants went into camp last night there tender armor insufficient for the crafty nights. You know what I mean. She just she had this way with language to take the most every day and make it just wonderful so anyway away so there are her letters and then these poems almost eighteen hundred poems. So that's a wonderful source. Then you start to look for anything anything that is reasonably primary in other words people who were eye witnesses to her garden. Did they write anything down. And so you know you're always desperate to try to find that You know I've scoured local papers tapers and just anything I could think of for sister-in-law wrote some memoirs. What what were they planting? Where did they get the plants from and and that it's it's like a detective story for me you know anytime I can make a connection Russian? There's a little satisfying click. I feel like you know I don't know like I don't I've discovered something so wonderful right right. Oh there's a new inclu or there's a new piece to this kind of patchwork quilt of of plants in her in her life and beauty and the seasons. It's it's really really pretty. It's pretty remarkable. Will you describe for listeners. Some of the documented plants in her barium and then then in the pressed flower either. You know saved evidence or noted you know like this this is attached inside at. You've whether or not we still have the plant or not okay. So let's let me back up for just a second and say her a herbarium collection of pressed plants and in Emily Dickinson's case. It was put into a a purpose made album and its got leather recovers and sixty six pages and she collects Hundreds of specimens of flowers that she presses either. I don't know what did she have a flower presser. Did she do it in books folks. I think it's much more likely that she did them in books. And then she glues them with these little tiny strips of paper onto the page arranging them The way someone might arrange a scrapbook so they're very they're visually beautiful and you can. You can look at all of these online courtesy of of Harvard's Houghton Library and so imagine these sixty six pages and all of these different plants things like lady's slipper orchid. Could you know which how many people get to see. Those you know in person Things like little you know sort of fungus. He like like sacrifice but also plenty of violets and pansies in lilacs and you know things that would grow in the garden as well so she has this collection she clearly continues. You know really for most of her life but primarily I think does it as a you. You know a team. Maybe into her twenties and yet she's also pressing flowers and mailing them so we there's one in the Boston Public Library Collection. It's wonderful arrangement of big hybrid pansies soon. Like the big pansies you might plant in the spring We know that she the in closed roses in certain letters of course sadly a lot of the letters that had pressed flowers. The flowers hours get tossed out. So you don't really know what they were and then you know from then on you just kind of go by. What's in the letters and poems but again again you know? It's you name a plant ago. Oh Yeah Emily Dickenson least knew about it or she definitely grew it in her garden. Hyacinths hyacinths daffodils again. Lots of roses. Lots of primroses fashioned flowers like stocks. You know that might be less common now. But were very common in the day. Love Geraniums GRUND Astir Shannon's and so from the herbarium was a From from everything I've read from the book and a conversation in a different episode a couple years back with the the museum. The or Barium was not just an aesthetic scrapbook but it was a eh tool of science. She was learning at school at I think the First Academy or was that before the Amherst Academy no definitely starting at Amherst. I Academy was a sort of junior high school. High School was co educational and then going on to mount holyoke which she attended for career. Yeah and so this was this was absolutely a scientific herbarium to some extent With you know real L. names of the plants as she knew them at the time although they are arranged not by Gennaro or collected location or but by a her aesthetic and space You know kind of choices. Yes and interestingly her poems she also much later in life we think gathered them up and sewed them into little books called called called fast. Although she didn't use that term so as much as I love the fact. That fast is a term. That's used used in botany for things like when like pine needles are in a bunch. That's a fast. But that's what Scholars Call Hall this collection of pages and again. This was a hand bound book. She didn't put covers on them but she did collect her poems written out and put them in a certain order right so the order would be important as well and people still still study. That was the order that these came in just as ordering these plants were important and just as you know. Poetry is the ordering of words in a certain structure and you know they're to so many layers because she does sometimes call her poems flowers and she sometimes uses the word bouquet and you know she means a bunch of poems or a bunch of words it addition to yes also meaning a bouquet I'm Jennifer Jewel. And this is cultivating place following up on new research and her own experience as Gardiner in residence at the Emily Dickinson Museum in Amherst Massachusetts. In two thousand nineteen writer and Gardner Martin McDowell updated her first book on Emily Dickinson's gardens with her newest book. Emily Dickinson's gardening life. The plants and places that inspired the iconic poet. We'll be right back after a break for more with Marta. Stay with us they. Hey Jennifer thinking out loud this week. The sources of creativity and how our gardens are among the sources for this in our lives. This concept occurs over and over in this conversation with Marta and it reminds me how much artistry the garden offers offers out to us and inspires in each of us. I am not a dancer or a singer or a painter or a designer or a poet or even even cook but the garden with her seasonally shifting colors and tastes her motion her bird and be the song her offering out of complex ideas in tiny encapsulated images. Dick vignettes for instance the pure white wings span of the first snowdrop. That opened in the garden this month. Who among us no matter how plotting or holy or clumsy we may be or feel who among us does not feel the artistry of the Universe as there's in the garden that's worth enjoying a moment of grace and gratitude for this first month of twenty twenty now back to our conversation with mark McDowell and her newest exploration of creativity literacy and plants? Emily Dickinson's gardening in life. The plants and places that inspired the iconic poet and us. This is is cultivating place conversations on natural history in the human impulse to garden. We're back now with Martin. McDowell's speaking to us about the research behind behind. Emily Dickinson's gardening life. As we come back mortar shares more about Emily Dickinson's actual garden preserved in part at the Emily Dickinson Museum in Massachusetts so the garden on her property. Imagine a big brickhouse brickhouse. It's painted the sort of yellowish light. Yellow color and it's a fairly formal looking houses houses up on a hill on main street and the property is big. There's three acres on one side of the road. That's that's got both her home and then the home next door at the her father built for her brother Austin in his wife and then across the street. There was about a ten acre meadow. That the Dickinson's owned so she's looking out to this real. No Meadow area that they would have paid but you know would have grown up in the summer and people neighbors said it was just full of birds and bees and butterflies allies so full of pollinators. The House had a little conservatory that was on the southeast corner and the garden itself went down kind of gentle slope. There was a big flower garden and then beyond that a big vegetable garden and an orchard. Now I will say Emily Dickenson probably did not attend the vegetables. You know she mentions mentions them a timer to but it wasn't really a woman's pursuit in their social class and I will say you know the Dickinson's had help they. They had they had household help. They had help outdoors as well. So that also gave her time to pursue her poetry tree. If you WANNA know more about the help this wonderful book by also a California her name is Eva. Murray and the book is called made. Ma I D as has muse and it's all about sort of the household help and how they influenced Dickinson both in her output and her language so fascinating fat anyway but that was the the garden and there was also a big barn and it was a barn with livestock. So you know the livestock. DOC would have produced great fertilizer. You know a lot of well composted manure and would have probably eaten all the garden and kitchen refuse so no need for a composter there and you know would have also there would have been a certain earthy nece out the property. It was the farm basically. Yeah and the years again. Remind us of the her life dates most of which were spent in this House on. This property There were a few years within the same town but still in this region. Yes Emily Dickinson. Jason lived from eighteen thirty to eighteen. Eighty six. She died when she was fifty five years old. She spent all but fifteen years in. What is now the Emily Dickinson Museum in the House that was called the homestead her grandfather built it? For fifteen years they lived essentially around the corner about maybe half a mile quarter mile half mile away in another house. That is no longer there But basically she wrote. I'm going to say almost all her poetry while she lived at the. What is now the museum in the hamster and some of the the? They've done quite a bit of archaeological work there on site because because some was renovated at a certain point when the house went out of her family and before it became a museum. Yes yes so the conservatory. which is this little glass in room? it was taken off in nineteen seventeen so built built in eighteen fifty five it was probably falling down by that and and they removed it. I will say good Yankee fashion. They saved saved most of the parts so in twenty seventeen when they unveiled the reconstructed conservatory. It actually a lot of the pieces were able to be reassembled after a good amount of archaeology was done and they found the original original footings. And you know were reassured about the placement of it They've been doing a lot of archaeology. Over the years they partner with the University of Massachusetts In amherst that has an archaeology team. I'm an archeology school so basically any summary go up there. You'll find dig which people can volunteer for. It's a lot of fun. And you realize y most archaeologists start out when they're college age because it's really tough on the knees but they found things like the corner are of the barn so now they know exactly where the board was located. They know that the garden path is where it was originally. So we've been able to establish that and we keep waiting because we know from descriptions that there were things like a summer house you know summer house being like a a gazebo you know what kind of open structure with a roof that they trellis roses on and I don't know where it was. Unfortunately there are no photographs in the garden at the time At least nothing that surfaced. So there's still always hope that there's something something in somebody's trunk that will serve as pop up. Yeah Yeah and they know through some carbon dating of of remains in the soil like where shrubs were where Delilah looks where the flower borders. Were this right. Well we're hoping so. They're doing that analysis at the University of Pennsylvania. They found some things like they've found grape seeds. We did know that they grew grapes rape so we keep hoping for more specifics and some of it is just waiting for that analysis to get done so still a lot of work going on right described the orchard. Because I think that's one of the places. They've had some really good success in restoring what they believed to have been original. Yes so over the past going to say five years there has been extensive work on trying to put an orchard back onto the Dickinson Property There is a lovely orchard. EST who comes and you know prunes these young entries and tries to get them to bear. It's not in the same place because there is a wonderful huge food white oak tree that we know that Emily Dickinson's brother planted. That's now shading a good part of that slope the eastern side of the house. So that's taken you know. A lot of care is taken around that tree so that orchard is down in the corner where there's more sun but they have gotten one of the trees to produce an old tree that had just just hadn't born apples for years but then once it was properly pruned. It bores egg kind of apple called a sweetening which is an heirloom APP. Kroll and we do know that they are worse weeding apples on the property in fact Emily Dickenson rights to a friend. The golden sweets are are from grandfather's tree. So boy how wonderful Right right and so part of how you know. All of this information is not just research you served as Gardiner in residents. Tell us about what what this was how it came to be if you're still doing it and what being a gardener in residence is Marta. Yes well I have a confession Shen to make and that is I sort of made it up and it's sort of perfect. It's sort of permanent. I I want to picture it's about I guess it's the summer of twenty seventeen and at a meeting. There is an annual meeting of something called the Emily Dickinson International Society. This is a group of scholars and Dickinson Lovers. They put out a scholarly journal and they organize conferences and scholarship on Dickinson. So that year it was in Amherst and Jane Walled. WHO's the executive director of the museum? Gets up you know. Sort of gives a report and talks about their poet in residence. You know that they they have someone who is going to be the reds and after this meeting I said Jan.. Can we have lunch and I said would you consider a gardener in residents. It's Now I will say you know Massachusetts from New Jersey. It's a four hour drive on a good day so I can't commute but and I couldn't didn't up there the whole summer but I said you know I'll come. Let's say once a month and I'll work in exchange for for some kind of accommodation so we worked that out and I did that in twenty eighteen so I was up there much more more frequently than my normal which would be to go up once or twice a year. I almost I think every year for for a really long time. I've been going up in June and we have a garden kind of weekend where we get volunteers and we dig and we try to shape the place up Because like most museums the major part of the resources go into the houses which need a lot of attention and so there's not as much resource to put into the garden But this let me see the garden in a new way through the entire growing season from you know seeing the very early bulbs in spring during all the way to planting more bulbs in the fall. And I can't recommend too much the idea of creating kind of internships for yourself if you are in a position to do it it because it's a wonderful way to learn by doing and you know college students do it. So why can't I it just because I am in my six decade will and what. I love also about this. Marta is that the term term Gardner in residents puts the act of gardening. In what I would consider its rightful place as an expression of of art of literacy of cultural values and of scientific research and progression yes. And you know it's it's often viewed as something like housework. How housework but really it is a much more creative? I suit and you know. It's allowed me to really connect with some of the the regular kind of volunteers around the museum and some of the doses will out and help me and so we do things like when we plant something important. A new rose acclimatised vine bulbs we read needed. A poem so that marks the event whether it helps them actually grow. I'm not sure but you you know I have my. I have my hopes I feel pretty sure it does and so with that I would love to end by having you pick another another one or two poems to share with US okay. Well I wanted to read my favorite and it's short and and that is because it is one of the poems that I do think is a little like a recipe and yet it's a recipe with twist and it goes like this to make a prairie. It takes a clover and one B. One clover and to be and reverie the referee alone will do if bees are few so I do love that one and then I'm going to read an autumn poem because I feel that it is again one of these examples where Emily Dickinson's poems are generally a fairly simple structure. The people have made the analogy there like a hymn tune but it's a structure that she turns on. Its head ahead in the same way that you know yes. Schubert used the Sonata Form But he made it into something spectacular. Just you know even though its the structure so it goes like this. The name of it is. Autumn is blood an artery upon the hill. A vein lung the road. Great Globules in the alleys and oh the shower of stain. When wins ends up set the basin and spill scarlet rain? It's sprinkles bonnets far below. It gathers runny pools. It's been Eddie is like a rose away upon vermillion wheels. Thank you very very much for being a guest on the program. Today it has been a pleasure to speak with you and spend this time in the company of Emily. Dickinson's concerns words and garden. Well as always Jennifer. It goes so fast. Reiter and Gardner Margaret McDowell published. Emily Dickinson's gardens. A celebration of poet and a gardener in two thousand and four in two thousand and nineteen following up on new research and her own experience as Gardiner in residence at the Emily Dickinson Museum. Marta updated her original work with this. Emily Dickinson's gardening life. The plants in places that inspired the iconic poet which is now oh available from timber press. Join US again. Next week. When we are joined by Aaron Carter and Georgia Fate Kirsty of frailty remits based in Oakland California frailty myths work is centered on reimagining femininity and building power in ways? Is that allow you. And all of us to feel our inner power grow our confidence and changed the world. The three of US explorer out. This work intersects with the garden world and some of our mythologies to be found there as well as why up ending these. Ms Is good growth for us all join us. There are so many ways. People engage in and grow from the cultivation of their places. Cultivating place is listener supported. co-production of North State public radio definitely take a look at some of martyrs wonderful images from Emily Dickinson's gardening life over eh cultivating place dot com. This week. They're powerful fuel for sparking your own creativity in end with your gardening life. Good January work for heart and soul our show. Producer and engineer is Matt fiddler executive if producer is Sarah Bohannon original theme music is by Ma Muse accompanied by Joe Craven and Sam Bevan cultivating place is distributed nationally nationally by P R X public radio exchange until next week. Enjoy the cultivation of your place. I'm Jennifer Joel
Beautiful Minds: Emily Dickinson
"Hello from Wonder Media Network Jenny Kaplan and this encyclopedia will Manteca. Today's this beautiful mind is considered one of America's greatest and most original poets and perhaps one of the greatest lyric poets of all time she said to have been singularly alertly brilliant breaking conventions and boldly experimenting with new forms and ideas way ahead of her time so very few of her poems were published during during her lifetime. Her work has had an immense impact on subsequent generations. Let's talk about Emily Dickinson. Emily was born in Amherst Massachusetts on December tenth eighteen. Thirty two Edward and Emily Dickenson. She was the second of three children. Children Emily's father Edward an ambitious lawyer and native son of Amherst prided himself on playing a large role in the community as an elected elected state congressman the treasurer of Amherst College and the chairman of the annual cattle show. He also served one term as a US congressman and much less is known about Emily's mother though her surviving correspondence suggests quirky intelligence that belies her reputation as a passive wife. Emily her older brother Austin and younger sister Lavinia all attended the one room elementary school in Amherst I before moving to amherst academy a prestigious school out of which amherst college has grown after graduation from amherst academy. Emily enrolled at Mount Holyoke female seminary now Mount Holyoke college but her experience. There was not a happy one. She found strict strict and invasive rules and religious requirements to be problematic. Emily was homesick so she left Mount Holyoke after just one year and returned to her family family home at Mount Holyoke as well as at home. Emily was surrounded by the religious tradition of strict evangelical calvinism which centered on the belief that humans are born totally depraved and can only be saved. They accept Jesus. Emily had a hard time with these beliefs and was the only member of her family to never join the church instead. She believed the soul's immortality and the concepts of transcendental ISM and she was disinterested in less symbolic conceptions of religious truth this would become an important component of her poetry. Emily started writing poetry during her teen years mostly and letters to friends and none of it meant for publication or public. Viewing a surprising number of these letters still exist today. You and show Emily's humor gift for relying anecdotes and her sense. Her correspondence responding to her letters with less interest than she would have liked. This vissel become a bit of a constant theme by her early twenties. Emily started to become more reclusive. She restricted her social activities and reduced her correspondence to a select few with whom she maintained intense relationships through letters in eighteen fifty five. Emily's mother fell ill because neither emily nor her sister remarried. The two were subsequently required to spend significant time on domestic pursuits taking care of the Dickinson Pinson household during that period. Emily increased her self-imposed isolation even further between eighteen fifty five and eighteen fifty eight. Emily wrote a lot of poetry in the summer of eighteen fifty eight. Emily began compiling her work into little. It'll bucks. She wrote clean copies of her poems onto find stationary and then sewed the sheets together at the fold to create small booklets over the of course of about seven years. Emily created forty booklets filled with about eight hundred poems home. Forty five from Emily's collection entitled entitled snowflakes reads. I counted till they danced. So they're slippers. Leap the town and then I took a pencil to note the rebels down and then they grew so jolly I did resign. The Craig Antenna. My once stately toes are marshalled for Jay because emily never left any instructions regarding these booklets. We can only guess what her intentions were for them. Some believe that she was simply organizing her poems for convenience others believe that. Emily wanted these booklets to eventually be published after death in the late eighteen fifties and early eighteen sixty S. Emily seems to have suffered through some kind of personal crisis. That may have been partially due to romantic rejection. We don't have a clear record of exactly what was going on and this along with other issues in her family laid emily heavily distressed and further increased her isolation instead of succumbing to whatever she was. He's going through. Emily wrote extraordinary poems. And even more prolific rate during the civil war era. Emily explored the ironies. As if humanity often tragic such as the constant denial fulfillment and the search for the divine and the every day in her poems. She also also wrote profoundly about what it meant to be a woman during her time women's subjectivity and subordination and the need for self reliance and greater liberty in her last fifteen years. Her social life was nearly completely conducted by correspondence after her father's death in eighteen. Seventy four. Emily Emily even had a passionate romance with the Massachusetts Supreme Court. Judge entirely by letter. She continued to write about thirty five poems per year breath in the eighteen eighties. Emily experienced tragedy after tragedy as I. Her mother died and then many of her closest correspondents Indi- one after another this culminated in the sudden death of her beloved eight-year-old nephew after that she stopped seeing almost everyone emily Dickinson died of a stroke in eighteen. Eighty six. She was fifty five years old. After Emily's death her sister Lavinia Aena put extraordinary effort into getting Emily's poems published with the help of Emily's remaining literary friends poems by Emily Dickinson was published in eighteen ninety the volume receive significant public interest and was acclaimed famous author and critic William Dean Howells's as a distinctly American voice. Yes because Emily's poetry both in terms of content and especially style was really quite ahead of its time. It took years before. Her greatness fully registered with the American poetry community and with the world at large by the nineteen fifties leading poets. Like Hart Crane Allen Tate. It was with Bishop. As well. As the new critics were in thrall with Emily's brilliance and were instrumental in establishing her place in the Pantheon of great lyric poets. No it's tune in tomorrow for the story of another beautiful mind special. Thanks to my favorite sister and co-creator was Kaplan. Glenn Talk to you tomorrow before you go. I want to tell you about another show. No I think you'll like think about the books that have changed you the ones that made you see the world and a whole new light on the but that's another story podcast. bestselling author Willisch. Welby talks to influential guests about the moments and books. That have been transformative for that here. Jodie foster talk about about how reading Franny and Zoe. Jd Salinger convinced her to put her acting career on hold so she could go to college and form a community here. How Joan diddy ends ends essay inspired crazy? Rich Asians author Kevin Kwan. To move to New York. We love celebrating the books that have changed our lives just like we love honoring the women in who've shaped our history. Check out. But that's another story wherever you get your podcasts.
Feminists: Emily Dickinson
"Hello I'm emigre host of here to make friends and author of a girl's guide to joining the resistance and today I'm excited to introduce one of my favorite feminist who's been featured on Encyclopedia Will. Manica Emily Dickinson. As a young budding writer. I was always drawn to Dickinson's poetry to me represented. What a woman on her own in the world unattached to a man might learn to be the great art that comes from women who might traditionally be overlooked this episode initially aired in December. But I think Emily Dickenson should be celebrated as a remarkable feminist. Now here's host. Jenny Kaplan to tell you all about Emily Dickinson. Hello from Wonder Media Network. I'm Jenny Kaplan and this is encyclopedia. Will Monica. Today's beautiful mind is considered one of America's greatest and most original poets. And perhaps one of the greatest lyric poets of all time she said to have been singularly brilliant breaking conventions and boldly experimenting with new forms and ideas way ahead of her time so very few of her poems published during her lifetime. Her work has had an immense impact on subsequent generations. Let's talk about Emily Dickinson. Emily was born in Amherst Massachusetts on December tenth eighteen. Thirty two Edward and Emily Dickenson. She was the second of three children. Emily's father Edward an ambitious lawyer native son of Amherst prided himself on playing a large role in the community as an elected state congressman the treasurer of Amherst College and the chairman of the annual cattle. Show he also served one term as a US congressman much. Less is known about Emily's mother though her survive correspondence suggests a quirky intelligence that belies her reputation as a passive wife. Emily her older brother Austin and younger sister Lavinia all attended the one room elementary school in amherst before moving to amherst academy a prestigious school out of which amherst college has grown after graduation from amherst academy. Emily enrolled at Mount Holyoke female seminary now Mount Holyoke college but her experience. There was not a happy one. She found the strict and invasive rules and religious requirements to be problematic. Emily was homesick so she left Mount Holyoke after just one year and returned to her family home at Mount Holyoke as well as at home. Emily was surrounded by the religious tradition of strict evangelical calvinism which centered on the belief that humans are born totally depraved and can only be saved if they accept Jesus. Emily had a hard time with these beliefs and was the only member of her family to never join the church. Instead she believed in the soul's immortality and the concepts of transcendental ism she was disinterested in less symbolic conceptions of religious truth this would become an important component of her poetry. Emily started writing poetry during her teen years. Mostly and letters to friends and none of it meant publication or public ewing. A surprising number of these letters still exist today and show. Emily's humor gift for relying anecdotes and her sense. Her correspondence responding to her letters with less interest than she would have liked. This would become a bit of a constant theme by her early twenties. Emily starting to become more reclusive. She restricted her social activities and reduced her correspondence to a select few with whom she maintained intense relationships through in eighteen fifty five. Emily's mother fell. Ill because neither emily nor her sister were married. The two subsequently required to spend significant time on domestic pursuits taking care of the Dickinson household during that period. Emily increased her self-imposed isolation even further between eighteen fifty five eighteen fifty eight. Emily wrote a lot of poetry in the summer of eighteen fifty eight. Emily began compiling her work into little books. She wrote clean copies of her poems onto find stationary and then so the sheets together at the fold to create small booklets over the course of about seven years. Emily created forty booklets with about eight hundred poems. Home Forty five from Emily's collection entitled snowflakes reads. I counted today dance. Their slippers the town and then I took a pencil to note the rebels down and then they grew so jolly. I did resign. The pray and ten of my once stately toes are Marshall for a big. Because Emily never left any instructions regarding these booklets. We can only guess what her intentions were for them. Some believe that she was simply organizing her poems for convenience others believe that. Emily want these booklets to eventually be published after death in the late eighteen fifties and early eighteen sixties. Emily seems to have suffered through some kind of personal crisis. That may have been partially due to romantic rejection. We don't have a clear record of exactly what was going on. But this along with other issues in her family lead emily heavily distressed and further increased her isolation instead of succumbing to whatever she was going through. Emily wrote extraordinary poems at an even more prolific rate during the civil war era. Emily explored the ironies of humanity often. Tragic such as the constant denial fulfillment and the search for the divine and the every day in her poems. She also wrote profoundly about what it meant to be a woman during her time women subjectivity and subordination and the need for self reliance and greater liberty in her last fifteen years. Her social life was nearly completely conducted by correspondence after her father's death in eighteen seventy four. Emily even had a passionate romance with Massachusetts Supreme Court judge entirely by letter. She continued to write about thirty five poems per year in the eighteen eighties. Emily experienced tragedy after tragedy as I. Her mother died and then many of her closest correspondence. One after another this culminated in the sudden death of her beloved eight-year-old nephew after that she stopped seeing almost everyone emily. Dickinson died of a stroke in eighteen. Eighty six. She was fifty five years old. After Emily's death her sister Lavinia put extraordinary effort into getting Emily's poems published with the help of Emily's remaining literary friends poems by Emily Dickinson was published in eighteen. Ninety the volume receive significant public interest and was acclaimed by famous author and critic. William Dean howells's as a distinctly American voice because Emily's poetry both in terms of content and especially style was really quite ahead of its time it took years before her greatness fully registered with the American poetry community and with the world at large by the nineteen fifties leading poets like Hart Crane Allen Tate and Elizabeth fish as well as the new critics were in thrall with emily's brilliance and were instrumental in establishing her place in the Pantheon of great lyric poets tune. In tomorrow for the story of another Beautiful Mind Special. Thanks to my favorite sister and co-creator Lizzy Caplan. Talk to you tomorrow before you go. I want to tell you about another show. I think you'll like think about the books that have changed you. The ones that made you see the world in a whole New Light on the. But that's another story podcast. Bestselling AUTHOR WILL. Schwab talks to influential guests about the moments and books. That have been transformative for that job. Here jodie foster talk about how reading Franny and Zoe by J D. Salinger convinced her to put her acting career on hold so she could go to college and form a community here. How Joan diddy essay inspired crazy? Rich Asians author Kevin Kwan. To move to New York. We love celebrating the books that have changed our lives. Just like we love honoring the women who've shaped our history checkout. But that's another story wherever you get your podcasts.
104 - The Keepers: Emily Dickinson's Hidden Kitchen
"Radio. Welcome to the kitchen sisters present. Where the kitchen sisters Davey, Nelson N, Nikki Silva, the kitchen sisters present is sponsored by zoo lily, zoo, lily dot com. Offers low prices on household items, clothing and toys for kids every day at six AM Pacific time zoo Lilly announces deals on all-new items from boutique brands and big labels that cuisinart kitchenaid and spanks all up to seventy percent off you purchase. What you want then zoo lily places one big order. They save you money by not storing things and warehouses this month, only, our listeners get an extra twenty percent off your first order when you sign up at sue lily dot com slash kitchen. Sisters see for yourself way over six point five million members shop on sue lily dot com. They're free app. We'll tell you when your favorite brands are on sale. Get an extra twenty percent off your first order this month only pet sue lily dot com slash kitchen sisters. You're not only going to get the best deals. Out there, but you're helping to support our show sue lily dot com slash kitchen. Sisters. Wherever or however, you're listening to this podcast right now, you should take a moment and checkout, Stitcher, Stitcher is a free podcast app for iphone and Android. It's got one hundred fifty thousand great podcasts like this one ninety nine percent invisible. In all of radio Topi as other amazing shows. Plus Stitcher has a premium service with more than twenty one thousand hours of original podcasts bonus episodes of some of your favorites an ad free shows, you can only hear Institure premium if you're on your phone download Stitcher free right now in the app store or visit get Stitcher dot com to learn more. Nikki, caviar. That's a lane. Hartman she lives in a little town in upstate New York. A very little town. She's a Potter and a former teacher. And she wanted us to visit her daughter at the Houghton library at Harvard University and to take an archaeological dig into a recipe. Hi. We knew nothing about Emily Dickinson. Maybe a few lines from the old penguin poetry classic. I'm nobody who are you are you nobody to and I think David remembered hope is the thing with feathers, but these librarians these keepers of the story Lord US in the kitchen sisters present Emily, Dickinson's hidden kitchen chapter one black cake. Is Emily Dickinson herself a left she's about eight or nine in. That painting sister Lydia is holding picture of a cat. And we was Merv dog person. We don't often think of her as being a redhead, but there's a little lock of her hair. And it's definitely that color. Referred to as the myth, not often steam Natori for wearing white some people's knew that she wrote was what she was known for. He was probably better known as a Baker a poet in her lifetime her gingerbread. The first thing that struck me. I'm gene McClure, mud writer. I live in Emily Dickinson's house in Amherst as a faculty wife, I resident curator Emily would break. Gingerbread little oval cakes. Put little flowers on top and lower them breadbasket from her window to the children below. They couldn't see her a mystery. Emily Dickenson liked to shock people. She liked to break rules. There was a kind of rebellious freedom in her inner world. She has a poem that begins. They shut me up in prose as when a little girl when they wanted her to be still and she says, boy, they should have seen the wheels. In my brain, go round. My name is Christopher Ben Fe. I teach at mount holyoke college where Emily Dickinson spent a year of her life. She's very well educated for a woman of her time. She liked science and botany what she did not like was one of the stated purposes of the college to convert young women to be Christian 'cause finding Christ as their personal savior. Christ is calling everyone here all my companions have answered even my darling Vinnie believes, she loves and trusts him. And I am standing alone and rebellion and growing very careless. She was one of the students. Who were declared without hope she said, some keep the Sabbath go into church, I keep it staying at home with a Bob link for a chorister an orchard for a dome. My name is Emily Elizabeth Dickinson. Julie Harris in the Belle of Amherst, this is my introduction black cake. It's my own special recipe. I do all the baking here homestead. I even bang the spice for this cake. It's black cake of flour. The black cake is a cake that calls for nineteen x five reasons to of current two pounds of butter in one and a half pounds substantial cake always nineteen pounds than agencies. That's before he put the brandy. Five teaspoons of close black cake. First appears in the eighteen forties in cookbooks. It's Caribbean in its origin. The cinnamon the Mace it's very tied up with the sugar trade and Lassus yen, please sprinkle in all eight pounds. When you think about Emily Dickinson, the myth in the white dress anything about her in the kitchen, the physicality of making that cake. This is a social Kate. So counter to Emily and her remove from the world. I found the one Emily Dickinson poem that mentions a cake. I'm Heather coal. My name is Emily wall health. Emily hardman. We work at Houghton library at Harvard University. The poem was sent to Nellie sweetser with a gift of cake and flowers blossoms will run away cake three but a day, but memory like melody is pink eternally. One of Dickinson's poems. Most facile. He's bound booklets that Dickinson copied her poems into and sewed with kitchen twine, some of her poems were published in her lifetime. But they changed Emily's plan rhymes and gave the poems titles to make them more conventional, and that's not how she wrote her poems. My life had stood a loaded gun in corners. She called him bulletins from immortality. You know, a bolt would come down sky pardon. She was given this message people have wanted to turn her into nice lady poet, a romantic version of her that is not untrue. It's just probably partial. I'm Brenda Hillman. I am poet. She did stay in her room. And she did have what she refers to as her white election, but he on her white dress and going upstairs not going out anymore. What choice did? Did she have in her time? She couldn't have gotten her writing done by being the spinster in the community that takes care of bodies coming home from the civil war goes on being a nice church lady in she wrote seven hundred poems in two years. I mean seven hundred for Pete's sake. This poem six six eight by Emily Dickinson, nature is what we see the hill the afternoon, squirrel. The clips the Bumblebee may nature's heaven nature is what we hear the Bob link the C thunder. The cricket may nature's harmony nature's what we know yet have no art to say so impotent our wisdom is to her simplicity. She actually would right on chocolate wrappers, right envelope. Poems sort of in the flotsam and jetsam of her life. The words move in the fragment of that paper. This poem was composed on the back of coconut cake recipe. The things that never can come back are several childhood some forms of hope the dead superb Lanson, prematurely, her cooking and her poetry. We're one the way in which she gave friends not only points, but gifts of cake, they were offerings attentions. That's what people call them between houses when friends gave something that they had made in the kitchen in the bedroom. These secret spaces where she could be alone or with her own select society that really was freedom. When Emily Dickenson bakes bread. There's something almost ecstatic about it satisfaction of creativity. In one of her early letters and eighteen fifty to her best friend by a route. She says twin loaves of bread have just been born into the world under my auspices. Find children the image of their mother, and here, my dear friend is the glory. Act to the soul selects its own society. There were two kitchens and Emily's life. She lived in a house on pleasant street next to the cemetery, and that is the kitchen where Emily learned to cook. How to make bread how to make desserts how to make wine her mother largely teaching? Oh, the mother and the parents really both are very old fashioned. They think they have such a small family. The girls can do everything. It's good training for them. Emily Dickenson or sisters at boarding school. Her brother's gone who's managing three meals cooked meals a day on the table and washing the dishes. She would start a letter it would take her another week or so to get back to it. She had this drive to right. And she was so th ward it, that's when the lobbying starts to hire a may've wanted to hire a girl or woman who is capable of doing the entire work of a small family Edward Dickinson Amherst, March seventh eighteen fifty I'm Yvonne Murray, author of made his muse how servants changed Emily ticket since life and language eighteen fifty five Emily was twenty five when they moved in. Into the mansion this demanding household. Her father was a leading lawyer. The mother was not well, she turned over the social and housekeeping regime to her daughters. Emily missed the pleasant street has terribly. She said I'm out with lanterns looking for myself within months of that move the first long-term made Margaret O'Brien who's an Irish emigrant comes. She's there for nine years. There's an immediate impact Emily has time to think in right when she felt more confident about herself as a poet, then house became more hers with her garden was the proximity to sue when Susan Gilbert came back to town after going away to school, Emily Dickenson enter brother Austin, both fell in love with her. They both wrote love letters to her. They were both in chanted with her. After Austin and sue were married. Austen's? Father basically paid them to stay in Amherst by building a house for them gorgeous evergreens next door to the homestead season. An Emily would Mark passages. They liked him books. They sent them back on fourth cross the lawn. One sister have I in our house and won a hedge away. There's only one recorded but both belong to me. One came the way that I came and war my past years gown the other as bird her nest building our hearts mung, Emily Dickenson sends more of her poems to Susan than to any other correspondent most of her emotional charge list toward Susan because Susan was so much reader. She's affectionate. She she calls herself daisy to sue. And it's very flirtatious and very sweet and at times. Scared of sues judgments. I split the Jew, but took the morn. I chose this single start from out the wide nights numbers. Sue forevermore? You can see how it goes from almost up like sweet Victorian poem. One sister. Have I enter house in one hedge away, that's sort of a sweet. And then it gets more and more wild. I split the do. But took the more I chose this single start for out the wide nights numbers. Sue forever would have like completely erotic pagan love affair by the end. She just was out of control at some amazing. What do you do you read the Atlantic monthly in the April issue eighteen sixty two an article appeared inviting young writers to submit their work. Charge your style with life said the author Thomas we're taking. When she first got in touch with Thomas Higginson in eighteen sixty two and asked if her poems breathed, he sent her back his judgements on the palms, not very encouraging. But he did what a lot of hornell literary men would do. And he said send me a photograph of yourself. She wrote could you believe me without I had no portrait now, but I'm small like their Ren. And my hair is bowl like the chestnut. Burger, and my is like the Sherry and the glass that the guests leaves with this Stu just as well. When Higginson came to visit Emily Dickinson Higginson wrote in glided, a little plane woman with two smooth bands of reddish hair with no good Beecher. Now, we have to remember that he was talking to his wife Higginson wrote. She makes all the bread for her father only likes hers and says quote and people must have put in. Playwright Thornton wilder talking about Emily Dickinson and reading some of her poems. January thirteenth nineteen fifty one. At New York's ninety second street, y I can see a woman white the upstairs of our house an afternoon's dorm. She goes upstairs window upstairs window watching to moat outside. The storm is over and it come by her dog. She goes into garden in the woods the back of the house. And she listens to the new silent and one bird three. She comes back for dinner. She cooks famous Charlotte russe for her father after supper, she reads, aloud to the Springfield Republican. And then she slips up upstairs. The women took up the northern things and pile them in the south. Then then the east upon the west Higginson and discouraged her to publish when she first submitted to him saying that her verse was a little awry, she ride him. And she said you call my gate spasmodic as though the rhythm was off in her poetry. She says you advise me not to publish and she says that his far from my ambitions as Ferber too thin as as a fish on land. He saw publication that she wanted to be published. But at a certain point, she recognized that publication is the auction of the mind of man, she she wrote that she didn't want to have to sell out not selling out for her was doing her self published job of organizing these facet goals and getting them into the draw. Four and that was going to be like a scene. She knew it the end of eighteen sixty five teach writing almost the equivalent of opponent day, Margaret O'Brien leaves. They don't have a permanent made for three years. Her writing drops to something like ten poems a year winter spring of sixty nine they hire Margaret Maher Irish emigrant, warm and wild and mighty Margaret shares the kitchen with Emily for seventeen years, and the writing starts to shoot up again, many of Dickinson's finish poems are stored in Harvard Mars trunk. Good morning. Great win. Huby Shakespeare for awhile. The insomnia of the wreck new box of thoughts of him cut off from her as she says the deck alone. Wins. He is like oh. Why hell? Would I wear with the while nights would be I look. Emily had you know, if people fell in love with. And one of them apparently proposed late in life. There are many theories about who the great master poems or two one was judge older slaughtered one was Charles Wadsworth. She also called Higginson master signing, her letters, your scholar, your skull your student and tell she felt that she was really graduating from needing Higginson as a critic. And then she started calling herself Dickinson. The zeros Totta spice frus, we learned to like the fire by playing glaciers when a boy and Tinder guest by power of opposite to balance odd. If white a red must be paralysis are primer dumb unto vitality. I get most of it the second and third lines. Give me the clue how to read the rest of the power. We learned to like the fire by playing glaciers. We learned her like the most intense states by experiencing the opposite of those intense states and paralysis is our primer. It's our rule book feeling most paralyzed. That's when we learned something. You find her using the term analogy of science of the carpenter of things in the world around her as metaphors for being sometimes her poems are like recipes to make a prairie it takes a clover in one B, one clover and a be and reverie the reverie alone will do if bees are few the influence of the kitchen and the language around her Irish immigrants native Americans people who are of African descent slave descent in and out of the kitchen coming and going in that yard and born hall vs different for knack healers played into the ways in which he approaches language. Loopy right back. The kitchen sisters present is sponsored by quip, a good-looking convenient electric toothbrush created by dentists and designers. Okay, busted up to ninety percent of us. Don't brush for a full two minutes. Quips built in timer helps you clean for the dentist. Recommended two minutes with pulses that remind you into switch sides. I really liked clip. It doesn't clutter up your bathroom. Withstands in courts comes in great colors. It's streamlined. It's easy to pack. When you're traveling brush heads are automats delivered every three months for just five dollars. Quip is one of the first electric toothbrushes accepted by the American dental association. Quip starts at just twenty five dollars. And if you go to get quip dot com slash kitchen sisters, right now, you get your first refill pack for free with a quip electric toothbrush. That's your first refill pack free at G E T Q U I, P dot com slash kitchen. Sisters. Act three tell all the truth Patel at slant. The homestead is a strange place for the last ten years or so of Dickinson's live. This promising young astronomer came to Amherst with his dazzling wife, Mabel Loomis Todd Todd was very attractive vivacious younger woman. Nobody in Amherst at Everson. Anybody quite like Mabel Todd before she was beautiful a professionally trained musician. Good public speaker, a very good dancer, and she immediately decided that the really cool family in town was the Dickinson's and she sat out to seduce the family, and she seduced all of them. She probably was utterly delightful. Wish she did captivate Austin, the two sisters Lavinia and Emily invite Mabel Todd in eighteen eighty two to come play the piano and sing for them. Emily Dickinson, never comes downstairs. She. Remains up stairs with the door. Ajar? Mabel, todd. Who's intrigued by the fact that Austin had this sister from the moment that Mabel Todd arrives in Amherst. She tells her correspondent about this extraordinary woman in white who according to Mabel is known as the myth. You know, Mabel never saw her accepting death Mabel homeless Todd because she had a dramatic flair. I have a feeling that she kind of overdid it when she described how much of a recluse in was Emily may have been reclusive to MRs Todd, but not to her very close friends. The other thing that was going on during those months, and the homestead is that Mabel an Austin, we're using it for their romantic trysts while Emily Dickinson was upstairs, Mabel pushed making love. Emily Dickinson's brother on the sofa, Emily and Linnea and Margaret Maher. They're win. They're having their three hour trysts in the homestead library, Susan Gilbert Dickinson. Austin's wife was not very happy about this gear was right next door. Susan had been Emily's closest friend as they grew up. It might be lonelier without the loneliness. I'm so accustomed to my fate. Perhaps the other piece would interrupt the dark and crowd the little room to scant by cubits to contain the sacrament of him. I am not used to hope I might intrude upon sweet parade blaspheme the place deigned to suffering. It might be easier to fail with land. Incite. Then gain my blue peninsula to perish of delight. Because I could not stop for, Dan. He kindly stopped for me, the carriage, but just ourselves and immortality. At the end of her life in may of eighteen eighty six her last letter, simply red little cousins called back, Emily. She wanted the funeral to come out the back door. She wanted Irish gardeners. Laborers to be the pallbearers to carry her casket around the grounds and through the barn to the fields. Everybody was shocked label Louis tied came to the funeral. And she says Kerry through the field by Schmidt. After her death Lavinia found in Emily, Dickinson, bedroom, forty carefully arranged booklets of poems ready for publication Lavinia took the palms to her sister-in-law. Susan and said, we need to get these publish when Susan dawdled at the task Lavinia retrieved that batch of about five hundred poems and gave them to Mabel Todd. She went from wife of Austin to lover of Austin asking for help with the palms. Mabel Loomis Todd became with Thomas Wentworth Higginson co editor of Emily's points that were published in the early eighteen ninety s they thought they were many poems that were incomprehensible, and that maybe if we clean them up a little bit or punctuation because she obviously was out. Of control. You changed words. So that the rhymes were more exact got rid of whole stances the early volumes of poetry, presented a kind of nature, poet glorious poems. But people were trying to turn her into a poet of the ninety s the wilder poems were put aside, so to speak erotic strength of those poems. Must have been terrifying. She was writing love poems to at least three people possibly this minister, possibly this judge and possibly your sister in law that must've been just a fairy strong cocktail what on earth. Are. We supposed to do with the first three volumes were hugely successful. Dickinson's poetry was immediately recognized and their plans in place to bring out more poems. And then Austin dies me leaves a plot of land to Mabel Todd and Lavinia is furious. She does not want a public gift from her dead brother to his mistress fit to collections of manuscripts were split the collection of manuscripts that Susan Huntington Dickinson held and the collection that maybe we miss Todd held past each women's daughter who continued this feud wife versus mistress into the twentieth century, one body of poems is Amherst college are purchases the other body of palms to historically all male institutions where Emily Dickenson can never have gone to college. In nineteen fifty five Dickinson's reappearance was illiterate. Bombshell for the very first time all of her points became available this nineteen fifty-five magician went back to the manuscripts tree. Enrich nineteen Eighty-eight. I'll never forget the shock of opening the second edition of opponens in which the dashes had been restored the dashes in the capitalizations had been restored. And getting a sense of a whole new reading of this poetry, a whole new voice. Much more gigan- much more personal much more original much uncontainable than I had ever thought to be. Going after backstairs as I did every single day in that house for eleven years and thinking for a certain time this exquisite mind lived here. Living modest hidden life having to be at home to help her father. How could she make a life for herself? She brilliantly did it producing these startling ideas that resonate and make us so much more fully human. Emily Dickinson's hidden kitchen was produced by the kitchen sisters in collaboration with Nathan Dalton and brandy how special thanks to the National Endowment for the humanities and the National Endowment for the arts. Art works. Thank you, Christopher Ben fee, author of Emily Dickinson and the problem of others. If Amaury made as muse, how servants changed, Emily Dickinson's, life and language, gene, McClure much, author of Emily Dickinson, and the image of home and poet, Brenda Hillman, the pocket, Emily Dickenson, very sweet little volume fits, right? You pocket. Thanks to lane. Hartman for getting in touch with the kitchen sisters with the idea for this story and to the librarians at Houghton library Harvard University and Emily Dickinson museum in Amherst, you can go and visit the homestead and the evergreens you heard readings by Thornton wilder Jew. Harris, Jane Alexander and Patty Smith Adron rich, let's recorded in nineteen eighty eight as part of the excellent PBS series voices. Envision supported by the any h. Special thanks to the National Endowment for the humanities and the National Endowment for the arts. Folks, if you know of a keeper we should honor or a collection, we should document collison are keepers hotline four one five four nine six nine four nine and tell us your story. Thanks for listening. Radio.
Behind the Scenes Minis: Strange Times and Ida Lewis
"This episode is brought to you by Milano. Cookies look sometimes that long Zen Yoga classes just not in the cards, so maybe a cookie is pepperidge farm Milano believes you should make some time for yourself once in a while I know I have a particular space in my sewing room that I like to just take a few minutes every day I. Sit there I think about things it's. It's kind of like meditation and Munching at the same time. You can get that Yemi beautiful cookie flavor makes it luxurious and delightful and I always feel recharged. Milano cookies are truly a treat. Worthy of your meantime they are delicate and Krispy with luxuriously rich chocolate in the middle. You really want to keep these just for you, so remember to save something for yourself with Pepperidge Farm Milano. Hi there. I'm Zach Braff and I'M DONALD FACE ON. We're real life best friends. We met playing faked life best friends, Turk and J D on the Sitcom scrubs. Twenty years later. We've decided to Rewatch the series one episode at a time and put our memories into a podcast. You can listen to it home. We're going to get all our special guest. Friends like Sarah Chalk John C Mcginley Neil, Flynn. Judy Reyes show Creator. Bill Lawrence, editors writers and even prompt masters will tell us about what inspired the series, and how we became a family, you can listen to the podcast fake doctors, real friends with Zach and Donald on the iheartradio APP, apple podcasts and wherever you get your podcast. Welcome to stuff. You missed in History Class A production of iheartradio. Hello casual Friday chatter chatter with the entrance holly. Fry I'm Tracy Wilson our first episode this week was kind of all casual chatter. That's exactly what I was thinking. It was like we had casual Friday on Monday. Yes, in talking about this this wild time that we are living through, but then we got to talk about someone that you picked out. And who is one of the more charming figures we have talked about in recent history in my opinion. Yeah, I'd Lighthouse keeper a either Louis, so I had. A circuitous path of getting to this topic that I alluded to you at the beginning of the episode. This sort of illustrates. How am I working? Life has changed the first thing was. I had thought about doing. An episode on the Athenian Plague. And, I'm nothing on never do that, but so many so many of our listeners have talked about how stressed out they have been and were so appreciative when we dropped playlist of just goofy offbeat stuff. I was like you know maybe a really stressful episode about a plague is not where I wanNA. Go Right now. Like I know, there's value and talking about the historical context for things, but there are so many places to get pandemic news right now and so many people have told us about just how phenomenally stress out? They were I was like. Let's let's do something. Let's find something that feels positive and uplifting, but also seems the medically appropriate to what we're living through, and that's how I eventually. Wound up on idol. Louis but IDA Lewis is not actually my first choice. She was not the first person that occurred to me. The first person that I actually thought about doing was emily. Dickinson, who was not as solitaire. Is a lot of people think of her. Yeah and that was one of the things that I was. Very excited about this idea of doing an episode about Emily Dickinson and talking about that that aspect of her, but then I was like amherst is just down the street. Not Literally it's, but you know we could get in the car and go there. We can't right now. Though can I go to Amherst and I was like you know I would kinda rather. Do this episode at a time when I can go. And visit where she lived. Because you know when I have the opportunity to do that, I really enjoy doing that. So I said okay, I'll I'll, put? Emily Dickinson back on the list of things to talk about later. But then when I got into the IDA Lewis episode I to running into situations where I was like. Oh, it really felt like. Because I do so much work at home because I do so much work. That's related to sources that are online, and I was not expecting a big disruption. In my work, however idol Lewis's personnel. Record is something that's open to the public. It cannot be requested right now. Because the library is closed, the biography that was written of her in the nineteenth century that we referenced in the episode is a lot of stuff of that age has been digitized, and you can get to it at places like the Project Gutenberg. Archive dot org or something similar that particular work does exist on microfiche, and as a physical copy in two different libraries that I can access. The library is closed. Those it was just like this is a case where I would have had some physical sources. I've might have gone to consult, but I sure cannot do that because the library is closed I do feel like that's the correct decision for the library to be closed, but it it Kinda tickled me a little bit that It turned out that that was the case with this particular episode. I like that. Again not to make light of any of it, but we have been very frank that we're very fortunate because we can keep doing our jobs from home relatively uninterrupted, but that somehow it managed to be interrupted, just the same. It's interesting I I have a question for you which let me just ask the question you an emily. Dickinson Person I own a copy of her entire. I have a complicated relationship with Emily Dickenson. Okay me, too. So Emily Dickinson is so. Tends to be such a huge huge part of American literature classes She gets kind of shoved on people in high school. And and then also when you notice patterns in the rhythm of her writing. I noticed them. What Song is it for you? 'cause I've discovered over the years. I mean it's a simple pattern, and so everybody has like that thing where they're like. And then it becomes obvious that you can sing everyone of her poems to this song, but I've discovered. The different people have different. Song, yes, you don't WanNa know the song. If you don't want to never be able to hear it just like I don't Dunno skip ahead by thirty seconds the theme from Gilligan's Island Oh, mine is yellow rose of Texas that also works. But then the thing is, life has been so mischaracterized, yes. And there are so many just wonderful biographies of her that have come out more recently that have given us more honest, look. At what her life was like and what? What happens to her literary legacy? After she died like I found out I, found that really fascinating I, and a lot of ways feel like she is a kindred spirit. Even no I can't stop myself from singing songs while I'm reading her poetry. I I will say I'm not hugest fan of her poetry, because that sort of makes it feel a little simplistic to me in a way that I don't connect you but also I think it's one of those things where she has been so romanticized a- about this phenomenon on the show before she and her biography and her life story has been so romanticized that it does the great disservice of completely Aclu Ding the person that she actually was so I'm glad that you're planning episode. We are emily. Dickenson, myth buster. We will keep our fingers crossed. That at some points. The pandemic has ended. And you know the the places in Amherst Massachusetts that are related to her life. We'll be open for visitors again and I will. Coerce my husband into going on a road trip with me, which is. Actually that my I. Don't know I. Don't know what his I have not asking about this at all. He has been just a very accommodating and onboard various times that I have suggested some random road trip to go to usually somewhere in Massachusetts or an adjacent. State to do some kind of podcast research he. He's been onboard. He's been game for all of that. Possibly because of the like the UBIQUITY and weird representation of Emily Dickenson in most people's high school lives. I don't know if you'd be onboard for that one. I could just go by myself. It'd be fine. That's true Yeah, I'm trying to think of any that I. Don't think I have any in the hopper right now. That I'm like I would like to travel to go check this out well another place that is not quite as close to here, but is doable and is somebody. That, everybody, the not allowed a lot of people a lot of requests to talk about Lucy Montgomery I know I know Prince Edward Island though it's just right over there. Travel again I would like to go to their. Yeah, that's less than a day trip aboard a weekend trip though right? I. Keep Thinking about where I would want to travel I. When all of this blows over. Presuming we make it through in all of the places I might want to travel are once again open and available. I mean I don't know who I'm kidding. I'm going I'm getting in the car and going to Disneyworld. Chance, I also want to make clear a just in case, anybody is feeling frustrated. We understand absolutely that this is not something that is literally going to just go away with. Human meetings taking concrete steps to stop it so when we say blow over, we don't mean like magical. Fairy is going to stop being a pandemic. No I mean when we are on the other side of this right. However long it takes to get on the other side of this with. We hope as as little minimal. Yes, it's. Minimal loss as possible. We hope yeah I mean I think about I think we're all thinking about what it's going to be like to resume normal life, and part of that for me is because I have been traveling so much part of it is Lake where would I travel to just for fun death initially, it's one of the things that we think about. But yes I'm I'm sure there will be somewhere historically relevant that I will go. I don't know where yet. Though I will want to probably go everywhere after not not being anywhere for a while, so we'll see we'll see oh, and just in case, people are curious. we were planning to go to it. In May that is post is postponed to October, just in case, people were like whatever happened to that only trip. That's what happened. The folks that have booked on. It are all aware yes. Yes Michael. Who handles all of all of those travels and who managed our our trip to Paris? Last year has been really great about making sure that everybody's bookings can transfer over to leader in the year and getting that all ironed out in squared away. So universe willing. We will be in Italy in October. Hope You have questions about the cruise to Alaska that we have advertised on the show as well. That is not something that holly and I are personally involved with planning, so you would need to contact like. If you're booked on that, you would need contact. Whatever information you got when you booked that. Yeah, yeah, that's We have, no, we. We are still trying to figure out what is going on with that as well so we don't have any updates there, right? But in the meantime, everybody continued to take care of yourself and safe. Stuff, you missed in history class, the production of iheartradio for more podcasts from I heart radio visit the iheartradio, APP, apple, podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Hi I'm Laura Vendor camp, and the host of the before breakfast podcast and the author of several time management books I'm also the host of I hurt media's newest podcast the new corner office in this show we share strategies for thriving in the new world of work one where the location and hours are more flexible than in the past. Listen over that First Cup of coffee and I promise. You learn something useful. Listen to the new corner office every weekday on the iheartradio, APP, apple, podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. All My name is Invictus, Santos host of a morning show and on the move I want to personally invite you to my new podcast. All My name is a show where I'll talk to artists, community leaders and people like you together. We'll learn more about the triumphs and failures that empower my weekly guest. You can find my new show on the free iheartradio APP or wherever you listen to your podcast.
Apple, Disney Enter Streaming Market
"This message comes from NPR sponsor xfinity some things are slow like simple easy awesome more at xfinity dot com restrictions apply it is not about us I assure you so this joins almost a half dozen new high profile streaming great sitcom out of sticking a camera in your offices this is like a competitor Netflix or what well you know in a way I mean big outfits like Disney and Warner media built their own streaming platforms and apples joined in own and it offers original commercial free shows to draw consumers deeper into about us how does the pay that's called the morning show on his new service Emily Dickinson and The Best Apple TV pilot I've seen is this anthology it for the two point overs just give it some time Yeah okay so in less than two weeks November out there that are going to try to serve all most of your TV needs and it feels like Disney pluses that seven dollars a month for about seventy dollars a year I mean I think sometimes it's tough for critics like me Well can you give any advice about what to do here I mean we've all Amax this year from or this week for more media they're promising like ten thousand hours of content diary to see what you actually watch a be aware of what's out there they're streaming platforms when the season is over and and go somewhere else and the combined costs could easily be less than like you're getting a cut loose at an awesome library or mazing grocery store and just enjoy.
Culture Gabfest: Live From Los Feliz
"The following podcast contains explicit language. I'm Stephen Medcalf. These sleigh culture gabfest live from low spills addition. It's Thursday November fourteenth two thousand nineteen gene on today's show parasite is a deeply unsettling psychological thriller from the celebrated Director Bong Juninho. It is the first South Korean movie to win. The Palm door can can and for what it's worth. It's making bank globally. We're joined by Justin Chang. The film critic of a film critic the film of the L. A. Times to discuss it and then then it is the peculiar American curse. It's right there in our founding document that we must pursue happiness. What is it about this? Our special national national imperative that imperative that is making us so miserable and then finally the Smart Smart folks at Apple can take a phone turn it into a camera Walkman and everything Bagel. Why can't they joke? I was just nothing. Nothing we wrapping in the back. All right. Well there's a better job coming so get ready. So why can't they take the Belle of amherst and turn it into a foul mouth. Bad ASS ask. Dickinson is a new offering on apple. TV We are joined by its Creator show runner Alena Smith joining me. It's a thrilling lineup. Tonight joining me tonight is Julia Turner. Who is the deputy managing editor of the Los Los Angeles Times in charge of Arts and culture in Justin J? It's true the floor length knitwear when it goes below seventy two very cold tonight cold out now. I also have a code like a duster. It's nice to see you guys in person instead of the. It's Kinda cool all in the same room. I mean we sort of beaming in from remote locations and I got asked by one L. A. Listener this week weather. We just flew back and forth every other week to do it in person. Oh I wish that is awesome. Technology is now so much better than than we are and And Blonde Dana. The WHO may also go by the alias. Dana Stevens film critic of Sleet Dot Com. Hey Dana here before we get going the following message is brought to you by Samuel Adams. There is certainly not enough. Positively being offered into this world and Sam Adams is determined to help help change that through the act of a simple toast. Sam Adams is encouraging everyone to take a moment to recognize those people in each of our lives and let them know that they're appreciated well. The active bringing people together may seem difficult or daunting. This movement proves quite the opposite. It's a simple easily realized. Act Accomplished perfectly through toast. Be sure to make a toast. This holiday the season with Sam Adams the Boston Beer Company Boston Massachusetts Savor the flavor responsibly. All right let's dig in Charleen. The Ball Juninho has been best known in this country for the movies. Snow Piercer. But even as I say that maybe for Okay Joe which I think is underrated film. I what a wonderful movie he. He will be going forward best known if I dare say it for his new movie. Parasite which is shaping up to be a bona fide hit. It has been called the most talked about at foreign film of the year. It is a psychological thriller though. This may be too limiting a description to describe what is really an intense ride. It is a bitter meditation on Social Class. Yes in the age of the global one percent it tells the story of a poor but very very shrewd families infiltration of a rich and very very gullible family's home life if the movie opens with the bright but class inhibited son of the poor family becoming the wealthier families tutor to add too much more to that as despoiled this remarkable film. But we're going to have to get into a somewhat but I please please welcome to the stage. The wonderful critic Justin Chang. The I feel like Carol Brady. I have my family All right before we before we dig in let's listen to a clip Jaipur percentage. Oh I thought you saw. It doesn't go to the lower so Honda's all right before we begin. I'm curious who who's seen the movie plot. If you have the two thirds maybe we can spoil the living shit out of it then all right Justin you call the movie in your view a thriller of Extraordinary Cunning and Emotional Force And you point to one of its most resonant symbolic images which is the two windows maybe begin by talking about those two windows. Yeah hello by the way. It's so thrilling to be here I started that because the first image you see in this movie is a window and I don't think it spoils anything to say the last image you see in the movie is a window as well And you saw it in that clip. That was just played. It's the window of the very poor Kim families semi basement half underground underground apartment. And it's interesting 'cause later then I bring in this other window which is later on when they are in this the wealthy park household old living in this beautiful architectural masterpiece of a house. And they're looking through this much bigger bigger window onto this garden. There's just a staggering disparity. I mean it kind of encapsulates. What the movie's about of course which is to families on could not be more opposite ends of the class divide aide and I think that it's very resonant because right away Bang Jun Ho is telling you that this is going to be a movie in which we look inside and see how people live this sir and it's also but it's also them inside their houses and looking out? And what do they see. And the Kim's very poor are looking out at this cramp street. The Guy who's just like drunker shows up in PS outside their window and it's trash in it's just their their view of the world is so cramped and narrow and then when they when the view changes and it's like they're in a different world and their home is is porous things. Come in that window. Sounds smells fluids immigation gasification. If you're shopping. Incredible scene right there. They cannot live not only in a minimally decent much less luxurious space. They can't keep the outside world outside. The amazing thing was that that how that the house is set. Everything in the movies is set. Not even that apartment which I think is so pitch perfect and it's grime and it's and it's it's it's squalor. It was all built so which is kind of remarkable. Let's quickly just take it down to the crass level. This is a tremendously well. Made movie written Directed Produced Production Design and Ensemble Samba casted movie. I mean just pure thumbs up and thumbs down rave about the movie. If that's what you felt absolutely I mean I it. It's it's it's been really gratifying for me. Just to see bum-jin get the success. The extraordinary success in the reception of the movie. Because he's been one of my favorite filmmakers for a while bill and he brings this rigor just on that craft level that you describe I mean I think you know Dana and I both reviews pointed out worse than we are the first people to point this out of. He's he's a hitchcock. Ian He's working at that level in terms of just sheer craft he meticulously store or storyboards boards his his every every shot every setup. There's just a tremendous fluidity. He's moving the way he moves through space and even in that shot you see. It's like a few different shots but even within the cramped quarters your the way. He moves the camera around. There's there's a virtuosity to that. And that becomes even more so when we get to the parks household household and I mean this movie you take out. I mean if you can't really divorce it from what it's about and the sex and everything but it's just it's a great heist nice to throw her for instance in the first half of it which you know we we won't spoil even up to that point we won't spoil beyond that but just seeing the twist the way he feeds you information and and when he when he tells you what you know again the windows come like. Who's spying on whom what's going on in this? It's just like it's just a masterclass. Just basic choreography quarry Agassi. But what I love about just crap is remarkably. It's it's it's constructed as precisely as a Swiss watch but it doesn't feel airless or mechanical. There's so much life in this is a great ensemble movie and so and you and despite that there's like eight or nine or ten different characters and you you get to know some better than others but they feel real they all feel inhabited and I think that there is just a level on which he's really built this movie from the inside and I think and I don't mean to keep calling in the WHO is really great but it's like you said like the way the movie is is so it feels so organic his technique it's as if it's grown rather than processed or built constructed. I was struck. I didn't read you until after I had already seen in written on the movie. And we rhymed in so many places in the way we talked about it and I think that thing that I said about the his movies in general but this one among them feeling organic and grown as if they kind of butted up out of the earth instead of being created has to do with what you were. Just you're saying about that they're clockwork but they're not mechanical. I think I said something like it has the simultaneous sense of order. This is a very rigorously ordered movie especially on seeing it a second time which I did today Eh. Because I haven't seen it in a few months and I wanted it to be fresh with this discussion and and you really see how it's put together with such rigor and yet it's tremendously alive. And all the characters tremendously live. Their emotions are direct. You know there's not a sense of in a way it's not hitchcock in in the sense that there's not an artful remove you know I would say it's it's a bit more warm or emotionally engaging. Somehow I also think that I noticed that rhyme as well and thought it was so funny that you both found such distinct but but Simpatico Simpatico ways but I think the writing and performance of the characters within this mechanism. which like you know? It's a class warfare movie. There's lots of things to say about the state of capitalism and class relationships within that there's a lot of things that are very truthful and powerful that you could say that are just like simple and mad and not particularly sympathetic to the people who are on the taking side of the equation and the specificity acidity of these characters is imagined as performed and then the surprise of their activity like they each of them surprises. You seen by seeing in not because you feel like the characters characters are a radical but because you just can't quite they feel so real and specific that you can't quite predict what they're gonna do even though there is this kind of schematic. I mean one one thought I they had about this movie which is maybe like more of a tweet than a conversation starter. So if this kills the conversation I apologize but like I was like wait a minute. This snow piercer was was class warfare about horizontal and this class warfare which is not going to be like or in a spiral like there is something about it but the performances are just so sharp. I mean particularly one thing. I really love the daughter of the Kim family. They have this very interesting debate. So so we we will spoil the early structure. which is that the Kim Saen? John gets a job as a tutor and slowly realizes that he can wedge the door open for debate replaced the helped meets of the rest of the family with the rest of his family family. So they are now eventually all employed in this new family which does not know that they are all related to each other and living in the same place and they all have different approaches to adopting their new false personas honest and they're very specific and they have different responses to how to how to seem at home in this world that is so glossy and sort of Korean the and Dwell magazine. It's like a modernist cold cold war modernist. Lots of weird lights type Tableau. And they note that the daughter seems like born to it like she approaches it with this hutter and and just start bossing the gullible rich family around where the they they all directed them all take different approaches and it's just the the precision and strangeness of that and the fact that that is more how it would happen them. All you know it's not like Ocean's eleven eleven or something like where they're trying to pull off a Cape Rancher. They all have a special skill but they all just seem so fake fake. Oh she even bosses her own mother around because the mothers the housekeeper so of course. Yes you have character and it just takes to power relations. I mean this is a movie about class power relations and social relations but also about the power relations within a family individually early in something else that you and I both hit on I think is the Patriarchy of the rich family is underlined ray. which is something that really struck me on a second viewing in particular lower it would be really easy to make the rich family just simply the foils right? They're just oblivious entitled and that it's a simple sort of Marxist story of rising up but without without spoiling anything. I can say that this is far from doing that. And layers a lot of qualities into both families right and makes you always wonder about their motivations and one the thing that you clearly very clearly see on a second viewing is that the rich mother really prefers the sun over the daughter right and at that in everyday life whenever there's a chance to make a decision in his favor that's what she'll do but it's never commented upon it's never theme it is is just their years. Without spoiling anything we can say IT'S GAILY NOT Marxist. I want it to do I have to. I'M GONNA get this wrong but I have to film critics on stage to help me get it right but doesn't hitchcock definition of suspense which is You know the viewer. The film knows that the ticking time bomb is under the coffee table but the people seated around on. Sofas don't it's it's this discrepancy in knowledge and once you've heard that definition you're like what what could be the ticking time bomb. What could be the coffee table? How let me get and he has a coffee table and it's not a ticking time bomb? I won't give anything away but it's just nerve tightening to the point of snapping your every viewer early nerve. I mean it's just so so astonishing and very one quick point very quickly is that the movie manages to be very timely right. It's obviously an allegory at some level title about about the one percent and they'll point oh one percent and the global rich but it's not at all didactic and none of that. I don't know topicality is such a terrible word because it doesn't doesn't feel topical and a shallow whatsoever but I mean the suspense and the characterizations are so lush and so completely realized even though one and is relieved. That filmmakers right now want to address. How fucked up our world is and to be able to do both things to deliver a genre masterpiece and say eh as an artist with voice? I have to address that this is how power is operating in the world discrepancy in the world is just. That's an astonishing two for one thing I thought of. I mean you mentioned The movie shoplifters I think in your view just him but I was like Oh you know. What was the big Oscar foreign language potential the Best Picture Oscar contender last year? It was Roma which was also an investigation of life from the point of view of the servant class in case of sort of striving and economically Komo troubled upper middle class family. And not a lavishly hyper rich family. But it's just interesting that for all of the complaints about Oh it's all a bunch of superheroes IOS and fake state steaks. And how much can we argue about. Martin Scorsese like these are really powerful. Movies getting made that are quite interesting that are exploring these themes teams with subtlety deafness and making money and making bank on ironically. I mean it's good that people are going to see Justin without spoiling the movie and maybe even without answering the question but talking. Can you about the question. Who is the parasite? Oh Yeah I mean I mean I think the answer is clearly we meant to be they all are you know and you can. It really does depend on how you look at it because because of course a horse the Kim family fits that definition in the most superficial sense but then who is truly the parasitic entity on society. Well it's obviously the park her family and I just have to say I just love the way that the title I what he visualizes that title. I mean it's even just the way in which the Kim's like move around in in the house like they're like the way they sort of operate like they're like a single organism like a parasite. It's just loved again. Speaks to the specificity of detail in the movie and even the way they're directed like they skulk about like they're like crawling around like the like in insects he would almost think exceptionally exponentially knows just because they're they're just used to this kind of kind of life all right before we exit the segment any dissenting voices at at all on this stage. Well this is just the thing I wanted to get in before we close so far from descending. I was just going to say that for me. I think this is maybe one of the most perfectly weekly realized movies we've ever talked about on the Gabfest. I mean everybody's making their best a decade lists now because it's the end of end of two thousand nineteen and I suppose some point wait. I'm GonNa have to do that and I'm not a big list maker. I don't love the idea of ranking movies but I cannot imagine not putting parasite on the list of the best ten movies of the decade. It's really just an astoundingly astoundingly kind of symphonic work and that really hit me. This time. It uses a lot of classical music too. And there's a few different montages. You'll know if you've seen it. There's sort of some comic action montage set to classical music that just have this symphonic perfection. You know where you just walk out like. I wouldn't have changed a single second of that. So that's my answer. I love to be contrarian crank but I but I will not indulge on this movie makers even trying to make my just ton of the earless now no and part of me. Just everyone's going to put parasite I don't WanNa put parasite but it'd be different and cool but probably just make all ten parasite that'd be that'd be different. Okay my slight descent. My my slight descent is I know. Dan Is incorrigible. Taste taste for blood and Gore cannot go satisfied. The tooth she has for mayhem is you wouldn't even begin to believe leave it but I have my limits and boy. They were tested in this movie. I don't want to give anything away but got it just I he. That filmmaker is smarter than I am so so I sat there understanding that it was there for a reason and appreciating that but man be ready for it. Just please come back on our show soon. Thank you for having me. Give it up for Justin James. Now's the moment in our show when we hear you're about our sponsor. Electric cars may seem a little different but new technology always seems weird I even podcast seemed weird when they first came out in the early two thousands they were called audio jio blogs and they were downloaded onto MP three players but now people all over the world listen to podcasts all the time on every kind of device and just like podcasts. Electric cars are normal. Now they have longer ranges meaning. They're not just for work commutes so you can take an electric vehicle to your weekend getaway or even on longer road trips. They have faster recharging time. So you don't have to wait around all day. Hey for a charge and there are more models to choose from sedans. SUV's luxury vehicles and even motorcycles. So you can find one that fits your life with more affordable models and unless routine maintenance. They may actually help you save money electric cars. They're normal now. Learn more at normal now dot com. We're also sponsored today by honey book in business. They're the big picture people and the people that bring those dreams into reality. But if you're a freelancer run your own business. You have to both if you need help with the day to day honey book doc has the tools you need to get everything done. Honey book is an online business management tool that organizes your client communications bookings contracts and invoices all in one place. It's perfect eight for freelancers entrepreneurs or small business owners who want to consolidate the services they already use like quickbooks. Google suite. Excel mail chimp with honey book. 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That the essence of life is better grasp in intensely intensively and intensively concentrating on the small whereas happiness brings with it the connotation of leaving seeking getting acquiring spending as opposed to say staying rooting in deepening. And yet there it is. The word is right there in our founding document. I mean talk about parasite as Americans we have to pursue it or almost risk being internal exiles being weirdos right. You don't WanNA pursue happiness. You're very suspicious person. The writer Cody Della. Strada has a provocative rocketed essay unhappiness. A on which everyone should read by the way is really good in which he writes this imperative to avoid being even appearing unhappy has led a culture that awards led to a culture that rewards a performance of happiness in which people curate public facing lives instagram and its kin composed of a string of peak peak experiences and nothing else. Sadness and disappointment are rejected even neutral or mundane life experiences get airbrushed out of the frame. It's as though appearing unhappy implies some kind of Protestant moral fault like you didn't work hard enough or belief sufficiently in yourself Julia. I'm going to start with you because you move to California okay to make you happier. Yeah it did pander just a craven pander to the crowd No I mean it made me happier because like to live in the same house as my husband and children all the time instead of only seeing my husband in person thirty six hours a week and I like my husband a lot. So that's better and that made me happier And and it made him happier to not be on a plane twelve hours a week and it makes me happy when he's had a lot of happiness entailed not having another to do with California. Sorry California also I really liked California Why are we talking about? Whether I'm happy. All right I mean I thought this was really interesting. Using in provocative I also thought it had a few stroman embedded within it because I it is true that the pursuit of happiness is in our founding document. I am I'm not certain I agree that our relationship to social media is necessarily all of us pretending to be happier than we are all the time and like look. It is true that you have to perform a cellphone social media if you choose to engage with so from social media and the constant performing of self is a thing that is weird and knew about our current state but only some people choose to perform happiness other people choose to perform langer beauty or frustration or mischief. Like like. You know people have different vibes that they're putting out there so I don't know these essays that described like everyone's constantly in a rat race to think they're having the best time and and you know like instagram story. The party there at like I don't know what instagram or yuan. That's not the instagram. I'm on a good friend of mine just instagram'd about like how you and suffered a period of depression work and then found a different work that he liked more like. I felt closer to him because he shared this period of pain pain which to be fair. He didn't share chair in real time he shared at once. You've gotten out of it but I then I sent him. A message was like hey. I didn't know that you were going through that. I'm so sorry. I'm so glad you found got like instagram. Is this where everyone's just like. I'M GONNA Party the party well so happy like that's not really what it is so I just I would ever. But this is my allergy to technophobe essays. Coming out there are other smarter things to maybe center on an essay but I just would like my allergy technophobe essays stipulated bright. But I'd like to know the quickly is on what social media platform or people performing Langer. A I pause a little bit before that word shed. I'm busted point taken point taken my the the youth right. So I have two daughters on substantially under the age of twenty and they are as likely to be performing misery in and I don't mean to say that glibly but there is is a sense in which performance is in no way limited to happiness among young people. It's just an ethic of sharing that includes what strikes me at moments to be a semi performance capacity share misery with peers. On instant. Were installed as it were Dana. I started with Julia because over the course of the last six to eighteen months Julian. I've been slowly switching roles on the show and I'm the credulous bunny you know I don't know however it but we're snapping back into place here with zesty. I knew you that you wouldn't disappoint me. That she would call it techno technophobe. Mishmash would you make of it. I mean I would. I would contend that the main point of this essay is is not to opine about social media what we should do about it. And if it were we wouldn't have wanted to talk about it segment. My fear for this segment was. Let's not fall into the same platitudes that everyone falls into talking about what is real happiness and what is meaningful life consist of. But maybe it's impossible to talk about it without falling into those those platitudes Pavulon. What I liked about this particular essay is that it does get prescriptive at the end? Maybe it's too technophobe when it gets prescriptive but it's really descriptive for the large part of the essay and gets into the history of this concept and And even the Etymology of the word happiness or happy that I'd never thought about which is that it comes from the same root as happenstance right or may have or something like that that it really has more to do with luck than with a particular feeling of well-being or something and that it was only in the course of hundreds of years that this word became the kind of aspirational state that it is seen China's now at least you know at least in this in this more shallow superficial way. So the idea of thinking of different ways of making aching one's life meaningful or worthwhile that might not involve the World Happy Word Happiness or concept of happiness seemed like the most fruitful part of it to me for example and he the authors of Man Right I think talks about the cultural distinctions between different ways of thinking about happiness and says that specifically it's a very Anglo American thing right to have this ever lip for the Brits or the sort of happy face everything's great. How are you but don't really answer? The question style that the American hail fellow well met kind of person has has and that there might be other cultures where for example in a culture where Buddhism is part of the cultural tradition. Maybe being happy being sad you know that it's all sort of part of this wheel of of emotion that you're trying to distance yourself from work. He also specifically cites the French as a culture who don't go around. SORTA roll their eyes at the idea that every single day about optimizing fulfilling one's pretend yes happiness. I think the great line there and there were some great lines in the essay was the pursuit of happiness. was fundamentally unsophisticated to the French. I remember this. I remember talking with a professor's wife in France of wonderful extremely Frenchie. She knows someone who's just smoking issue. bomohs nonstop and her saying something about that. The two big concepts for Americans that sort of defined America America that the French. Just don't get our Lafon. The two key key words to understand America were fun and save which I thought was really interesting. You know this sort of Protestant work ethic and and so forth you know saving things for another moment yet but also expending yourself in fun and that AH the French were interested in neither saving nor fun. There was more of a kind of I. Don't know just a day to day acceptance of misery. The the best quality in this essay is that it did give me. I agree I loved all those parts of it and it did. Give me that thing where I started looking at the word. Happy and thinking about the concept of happy and had that feeling when you look at the word fork for too long and you're like what are these letters is a fork. And how do I eat and it does make you realize how ingrained it is an American culture to be like happy good good sadness bad. Try to be happy. Try Not to be you know that you could sit in some of these feelings for a long and it also made me think about like I. I have so much I was trying to think about the positive feelings. I associate with good moments. And you know. They're sort of enjoyment and companionship and satisfaction and the pleasure of work. Well done and the pride and joy of chill like I duNNo. Happiness just began to seem like this weird Weird Amorphous umbrella term that I wasn't sure which of my actual daily emotions you know they. They seem to all roll up into it in general like check box of like well. I'm not miserable but it didn't go around asking yourself all day. Right and my happy that would be really anxiety. It's not it's like it's weirdly like it. I almost feel like happy is a category four types of feelings that are happy feelings but like happy in and of itself was like do I ever feel just happy visceral way anyway but it did. Give me like a fun. Like Woo like head-to-heads aheads been feeling great water vibe to Juliet Turner now. She's pick a couple of different thoughts. One is that that WHO's the villain of the piece right? That's what I kept asking so is it. Thomas Jefferson well not really because Jefferson was part of that turn by which the word went from one older meaning of just kind of good fortune as befalls you. Maybe even somewhat passively Fortuna right and AH evolutionary shift to its modern meaning and in fact I thought the essay was quite smart on that for Jefferson. Happiness really meant something more like epicurious epicurious unhappiness like epicurious philosophy of sort of. We might even call it reductive. Zan Removal from the vicissitudes of life and an acceptance acceptance of fate to a certain degree and peace of mind and absence of bodily pain right. He didn't have happiness in anything like its modern connotations. So it's not Jefferson person and then then you think well is it neoliberalism right. So there's actually a very good theorist of neoliberalism name William Davies. Believe a Brit who's written beautifully about. How happiness penises industry you know? The market is cajoling. You at all times to perform for an in it and keep very little in reserve for yourself and to better better do that. You need to be zesty and positive in some way especially users of a funny word. But I love zesty thing. I know success than happiness. Honestly Right Zesty. Things asked has acid in it. That's what makes us so good. It's bright and joyful but it has that shortness. We've found the room with zesty. I can cultured that gap. You in them right. Are you as in the right show place. But I think that there there is one. Real Empirical Villain media is not quite the right were but social force that needs to be reckoned with which I do think that measurably younger people are less happy than they've been in the past and that is because of social media media and unrelentingly comparative aspect to social media. Whether you're being langourous or zesty on it and that seems to be measurably casually in ways that are provable. Sociologically true you know and not just in the you know Morbid sensibility of the mind. Making people significantly more miserable miserable. That said I did. Come across a couple of passages where I thought maybe the villain here is the SAS. I mean it's a lovely say this is not a slag on the writer her at all. But only because I relate to this mentality so well am I so on high alert for it whenever I see it. There is no image of modern existential emptiness quite like the person travelling the world while constantly posting pictures of restaurants and landmarks not restaurants and landmarks marks on social media and competitively performing a happiness at the expense of making genuine connections with his peers. Or is that language of genuineness and authencity. I think we've all learned to do without it even depresses me among us. Who WanNa right Jeremiad against everything good and happy and Jesse but anyway I left out at me there? The sensibility of the writer was leaking through almost. Sounds like you are taking objection to the technophobe. Nonsense in this essay Steve Flipping us back around. Conrad and you kind of liked. It's John It's outlook. Oh man actually but I did have one thought about the parasite to just flip it back. I was trying to think where either of those families happy and who was happy. And what does happiness mean in those context in the broader. Her class context in. It's in a weird way. The Kim seem more happy in their sort of genuine. Can you in regard for each other and their satisfaction at their applications scheming than the parks. Do at least for a while. Ah until the part of the maybe we can talk about which brings in other characters whose happiness could be questioned in thought about but no more can can be said without spoiling it. Can I talk about one distinction that I came across in a different place before we close. It had regained control of the second. When you start to make a statement and here Filho Co host to sort of sex mis? We actually staying within the confines of this topic. Our Format Matt is typically three separate topic discreetly apart from one another talking talk show. There was another source that I was listening to. A podcast called the happiness lab just as part of the kind of research for this segment and somebody somebody some experts scientists who came on their head a distinction that although it may come down to you know sounding too much like a feel good maxim or something I thought was useful and and this person was distinguishing between they were essentially saying that a happy life a good life as we think of it has two components that need to coexist need to come together and it was just a difference of preposition. She said did. There's happiness in your life which sort of experiencing individual moments of pleasure joy Reid togetherness etc and happiness with your life right which might not make you happy and every single moment but means that you have some larger sense of meaning and those two things might not always go together in order to accomplish that meaningful project. You may be doing plenty of things that don't make you happy. Like working hard and foregoing pleasures that you would otherwise enjoy and somehow that idea of happiness in unhappiness with coming together seemed more useful to me than that that that question Julia was talking about. Am I happy. Are you happy or the people around me. Happy that somehow just useful the resolve the problem nicely right the opposite of which is being totally engrossed in something that you love doing even though it might be extremely difficult and require exertion and you just you forget yourself sell forgetting you are not asking whether you're happy and retrospectively you're like Oh that was fulfilling. You might not use the word happy estate toward the meaning. Happiness with your life side rather than in your life. Okay so if I were a real host of a real show right there would say the title of the essay. But I'm not so it doesn't so I can tell you that the sap is on an website. It's by cody. Dallas Rowdy and it is a very good in provocative which is why we discussed it and the title of it will be on the link on our show page kind indulgent after Heap Raina. Hello it's Dana here to tell you that. Today's episode is sponsored by modern fertility. Knowledge is power. And when you know more you can make better decisions for your body your your health and your future. There aren't many decisions bigger than having a child but for many women. Their fertility is a big question. Mark if you want more information about your ability to get pregnant. So you need modern fertility. Modern fertility is a quick and easy hormone tests. That you can take it home whether you're thinking about trying for a baby now or you just want to know your options for the future your results. 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Here's formulations they call this never list for moisturizers to make up cleaners to sunscreen. Beauty counter is at the forefront of using clean ingredients to create products that are effective. Give and really work go now to beauty counter dot com and see all the cleaner and safer products you could be using. That's a beauty counter dot COM Emily Dickinson Dickinson is one of those writers for whom discrepancy could not be any greater between their worldly success and the estimates of posterity unknown. In her lifetime she became as beloved beloved. Exalted quoted. Fetish is picked over as any writer in the Canon with its metaphysical ferocity and deep deep love of earthly sensual. Life or poetry is just period full. Stop and of sentence here it comes unsurpassable. I mean she's just the greatest poet in the American idiom with the possible. Maybe maybe sitting next whereas Walt Whitman. But that's still a maybe I mean she's just absolutely the greatest and the new. TV show from an apple. TV which stars Hailee Steinfeld as emily. The housebound spinster. The Belle of Amherst beloved emily our beloved iconic like Emily. She swears like a sailor. and his prone to unladylike outbursts and slouches love. The slouches shouldn't sit like we think. Emily Dickenson sit until we watched the show. She still destined to be a spinster. Maybe the world's most famous one but for reasons other than what we might have imagined going into this wonderful show she is too much the pert rebellious sexy. Bad girl and this was some people have to imagine. I can't wait to ask. Elena must be the equivalent of the last temptation of Christ right just so impious he is is to be totally grotesque on that note. Olena Smith the creator of this wonderful show. Please come up are magnificent to have you with US total thrill but before we dig in. Let's listen now. It's looked at and listen to a clip. See most people will gladys. I'm not always want to see so my dad won't allow it. Settles too late to stop it. My father will burn three copy. If he has to anything to prevent prevent me for ruining with good name of Dickinson Don you'll be the only Dickerson they talk about in two hundred years. Did you just walk into some rooms. Pitching this and people were like these question. Marks just started popping up over their heads and it must have been quite quite a journey. It was but I actually. The journey took place for a long time and then finally there was only one pitch and I pitched it to apple and they bought it but a lot lot of work had been done before that happened. So and there was question marks before and after. How many more question marks we're going to be so we'll get one thing straight here so you're saying that they had sex in the olden days? Is that really true through I. I can't make any claims. I don't know all a metaphor. Okay I'll ask you. I'll ask you a question now. which is can you imagine when you're making something like this and creating something like this? You're confronted with the dilemma. Doing anything period. But much more you you know. I think possibly drastically with the subject Emily Dickinson which many people think they know going in. which is are you going to make it very formal very stilted in Battersea and the endow fakey English accents and in fact place a kind of emotional scrim between these characters real people in the viewers ars? Where are you going to contemporaries in some way and say bucket? I don't care about anachronism like you really through that caution to the wind and made this toys as strongly as possibly could. was that always true of the project as you can see bill. Yeah well I think that this project is much sean less a bio pic or a historical film or fiction than than it than people. Thank hearing like it's about Emily Dickinson. You sort of assume it's those things but what is more is using the figure of Emily Dickenson as like apoe athletic meditation on where we are today in our culture and using the eighteen fifties and her historical and also literary literary context as kind of like funhouse mirror to look at ourselves and what it is to be coming of age as a radical young queer female artist in America. Today Tata's beautifully put and she tried teaching Ching her to undergraduates who may not be familiar with her only know her through the icon. And you have to humanize you'd have to say there's a ferocity here an anger. Anger rage feminist rage. A sexuality sensuality. Like there's there's so much compartmentalized in such a small space. And what I love. Love almost most about the show is this person was given no social role to occupy that adjoined with her inner sense of who she she was and the show is her fabricating solution to that immense problem. That's right and it was always so important to me that emily only Dickinson our character. And I also believe is true about the real. Emily Dickinson was not a victim like she had so so much confinement and repression to her circumstances but within those circumstances she claimed all the agency that she could and I truly believe believe based on the scholarship that has been done in the past couple of decades that Emily Dickenson knew she was great that she had a plan in a way she how to plan for her posthumous fame and success and she was carrying out in a very strategic. Not Gic way everything she needed to do to make the body of work that she made that you have already said and I agree is like the best body of poetry in the English language in America and is like so full of riddles and paradoxes and mysteries that were still unpacking hacking it today. And maybe even some of that was part of the strategy like being so mysterious was part of the strategy so kind of depicting getting her as someone who knew as much as anyone can like exactly what she was doing and was really purposeful. And I've said this before but like I kept thinking her Robert Caluzzi. In game of thrones like having that much of a Michigan the show you know if there's like this fundamental mistreat great. Emily Dickinson's life which is why didn't she publish right. And there are a number of different answers that you can give and I think that each season of the show that exists will will give maybe a totally different answer because ultimately there isn't just one but so the first season which is really her coming coming of age story it. It provides one answer which has a lot to do with her relationship to her father and that as like a microcosm of the patriarchy basically. You know it's terrible business to break news on podcast right. But it's Kinda sounds to me like there's going to be another season to show. Yeah well we're in production on season two right now so hurry hurry up hurry up and been your season. Why so that you can watch these those Alina? I want you to hear this in the spirit in which it's meant. I went into this not not wanting to do this topic. I was afraid to see this show. I thought they would be no way that I would like it. I don't I drive courses. A critic not to go into things with that mindset and set but Emily Dickinson is just so special to me has been one of my pantheon writers forever and ever and read her biography into her house. All of that and I didn't like for example example the Terence Davies movie with Cynthia Nixon as her a couple of years ago won't even get into the reasons why I mean things about it. Were well done but I just. I don't feel the need for fictional. Emily Dickinson's it's to be filling my head basically and so. I went in with that caveat and then was just completely delighted by the shoreline thrilled with what you did the sense so much love for her language and respect for her language in the way you used poetry for example so the title of each episode is the first line of a poem. Marie line from a poem. Maybe not necessarily I right. And and that the episode becomes in a way the story of what made that poem possible. Right I I mean. Of course all functioning under the fiction that the teenage Emily Dickinson had already written all these poems that she in fact wrote much later but I think the moment that it kind of unlocked for me was when I realized that it's not a bio picker. Send up or any kind of historical. Take it's really almost a an elevated form of fan fiction you know the way that fan fiction takes aches a story and imagines in between the cracks right. I mean you know the sort of genesis of fan fiction being something. Like what. Kirk and spock were lovers right and And I feel like you're fictionalization of her. Life is very much in that spirit. It's finding these places to burrow into the real story with lots of details that are absolutely real and and finally this kind of flowering of imagination within it. And you do that really really well. Thank you and I'm so glad that people who do become obsessed with Emily Dickinson at which I am one of you know. We can be very possessive of emily. Dickenson and I didn't see either of the two Dickinson movies that came out both during during the time that I was working on this. Because I've been working on this since two thousand thirteen and I felt like I didn't want to see them because it would interfere with like my relationship to the characters that I was building but I also feel like it's important. Well two things one is. She's actually not meant to be teenager in the show she's she's in her early twenties and And the show. A lot of the responses have framed it as like. Oh this must have been an attempt to make emily Dickenson accessible to like a teen audience. And I'm like no no. That was not the intention. That's great if that happened but the my intention was as an artist and a writer who has written about many subjects and not not all period and not all by anything like that but I basically was making like a collage almost out of her poetry and her biography and again like the con- The wider context. So you know we have thoreau as a character in Louisa May alcott character even though she never met those people but that it doesn't matter because I'm not trying to tell I'm not actually trying to teach anyone what really happened in the life of Emily Dickenson which I have said before before a TV show of the real external life of Emily Dickenson. It would be so boring because she basically was just like fetching water all the time because that's what women in the eighteen fifty s we're doing but but this this this is this is like I want to. I want to like take Dickinson. And use her as an Avatar like a lantern that you can hold up see around where we are because because I want to talk about where we are not not where I don't really ultimately care about much about the eighteen fifties. I Care About Twenty Nine thousand nine hundred twenty twenty and like what's it's happening right now. I the phrase that came to mind mind watching the show and I had sort of a similar. I don't think I've quite the same. I haven't been deadly only Dickinson's house. I really like him. I hear tax there now. By the way you're thinking of the show I live in California now anyway but I I really do love poetry and and you know saw the trailer and was like well. That's a direction. And and but then if I'm watching the show was just absolutely delighted and the phrase the coming to mind was reverently irreverent like I don't understand how the show simultaneously can be so it. It feels so reverend about the spirit that animates her poetry while feeling kind of wildly irreverent about the specific details whether she ever met thorough. And like you know. I don't think she was a slouching. He then who was like giving her mom lip about water all the time although maybe she was she kind of was a heathen definitely I'm giving a lot of lip anyway. Like the way that her poetry reaches me and I have not read the biographies either but I feel it feels like she's this. The combination of the iconic portraiture of her and the poems themselves makes it feel. It makes me imagine this kind of like tot crab Crab Spirit from which like divine things like flow out. You know and this the wildness and like the fluidity of the body it just the physicality of of Healy's performances so not what you'd expect and presumably more accurate than I know or have bothered to research but I don't know I just I. I love the way that you somehow feel animated by passion for her work and then using it to do something else like and that. I WanNa know winded despite that start like did you even get that idea. Well I wa. I used to write poetry and high school and I liked Emily Dickinson and and then when I was in my early twenties I read a biography of hers which is the one by Alfred. Hey Beggar which is called. My wars are laid away in books and I think is a really great biography of of her coming of age like her adolescence and growing up with her family and and something about her. I just don't like her basic situation. It just really resonated with me. I was growing up in the Hudson Valley. Stephen and you you look out the window. It looks basically like nineteenth century New England. It's like there was a lot of horses and farms and Barns and I think I felt trapped act like any sort of you know adolescent person does and and I felt like I wanted wanted. You know I think Emily Dickinson's life is kind of defined by this need to find someone who understands her and she never really does like maybe sue comes the closest to understanding her but she. She has fundamentally unrequited life and I guess us that bleakness and that irony of her state of always needing more than she was getting is what made me think that it should be a comedy like that it should be a half hour show and also like what you were saying about her attachment to like seeing the infinite in the small. All right and I I knew I didn't WanNa make like hour long episodes about Emily Dickinson. Because this wasn't like a sweeping epic. This was a girl girl in her room in her house. Like with this tiny little desk on these tiny little pieces of paper but but these huge emotions just like filling the space we can. I just ask one question. Why does she use full sheets of paper? She's constantly writing on scraps. Is that based on history and or some kind of historical paper for shortages. I should be aware of as a Massachusetts or like what was hard to get paper and she saved like she saved weird pieces of paper and wrote on them like she wrote on the back of the candy wrapper or like. There's a note that George Gould The sky who was at Amherst with Austin whose character in the show he he invited her to a candy handy pulling and she saved that piece of paper for twenty years and then like wrote a poem on it twenty years later and you know there's a lot of fascination to the materiality of Dickinson's poems and specifically what she wrote on envelopes and like steamed open the envelopes and folded them out and then wrote like lyrics about bird wings on the wing of the envelope. You know so I mean there's so many ways to look at Dickinson and I do think she is kind of an outsider artist list and you could look at her as like a paper artist like there's all kinds of ways to think about her because she she didn't really see her poems in print so it's not like she really saw her work in books or magazines or newspapers like we think of a published writer and especially actually now like we all just right on computer I mean I barely ever write with a pen on a paper so I see words in print in my head but she saw them in her handwriting in writing and yeah you even use her handwriting wonderfully incredibly distinctive handwriting. These moments rare moments. There's not a lot of scenes of Hailee Steinfeld at a desk scribbling. It's not that classic like I am a writer. Look at me writing sort of story but but at the end of each episode as the poem gave the episode. It's title is red or some part of it is read by Hailee Steinfeld. You see see it appear in Emily's handwriting and I absolutely loved that touch because her handwriting so unforgettable but I have two specific production related questions for you so one of them is. Did you write this four hilly Steinfeld and did you know that you wanted her so about the casting process of that character because it all hangs on that character right. I mean if you don't have the right person is emily in this is dead in the water and the second was about the house because having been to her house and done the great docent tour that they have there I really I mean it looked like you built a replica of the House. So I'm just curious what was was it built set with the steer is next year is in the same place. Yeah Well I I was. I was working on the this show for a long time before it was cast at all so it was like a just an incredible stroke of luck to to get Hayley and I at this report. I mean she's just such a force of nature and fills the space of this role so beautifully and I think also like Haley is is a fundamentally dramatic actor who can be very funny and then also is a musician and music is so important to the show so she's just like a phenomenon and it's incredible to have her in the character and at this point now writing more seasons I am writing it for Haley and for all the other actors who are there which is the greatest luxury because we have such an amazing cast and like hearing their voices and getting to write for them is so cool but but and then as far as production goes so yeah so like the idea was always to be making this perfect Lee research detailed detailed representation but that we were always searching for a way to fill it with like a detail that felt uncannily fresh alive now so for example you know so we went to the Dickinson. Homestead we worked with the museum. They gave us like original blueprints. That people hadn't Dugout Out For years and our production designer based you know the dimensions of the rooms on and I had visited the house too so like when I wrote it I wrote it thinking of the actual house you you know but but then we we like put wallpaper up. That's like totally psychedelic and crazy. and has these prints that just explode and then also like prints on the dresses that are crazy. So there's all this sort of trippy like clashing patterns going on and but so are are interiors. Are we shoot on a sound stage in New York and we have a facade of the first floor of the house and then all the rooms inside inside that we get to see so it is kind of like a dollhouse getting getting to be there on the set huge dollhouse and then we shoot the exteriors at this place called called old bethpage village which is a place in Bethpage Long Island that just is like a nineteenth century preserved period village but we built a matching ching facade of the first floor of the Dickinson House there so the top floors. So it's weird so like when you go to Bethpage you just see a strange like I forgot that the Dickinson's didn't live in like a split level house because it's just like a one floor like it's very weird but and then a lot of blue screen like blooding things out so is going to be now that we know the second season is. Is there going to be a construction of I was. I was going to say that. And then I was like instinctively holding back the spoilers but yeah we have. We have the evergreens in season two which really blows the homestead of water is. It's so wild. Like in season one we off the homestead was like the fanciest thing we'd ever seen now we have the evergreens in which is kind of part of the plot that like the Dickinson start to feel a little bit like keeping up with the Joneses with Austin ensues sues fancy new house next door so if season one is about the patriarchy as what kept emily down. What's keeping her down in season? Two you well I won't. I won't begin my press junket for season two but it does it does it does have to do with with fame because a lot of you've what I'm trying to do again with. The show is really used this to look at where where we are now and where particularly like the millennial or Gen Z.. Generation in is now and I think that it's so interesting that Emily Dickinson wrote so much about fame and attention and the price of fame and publicity versus privacy. And she's almost like the prophet of all of that stuff and you know the instagram's with people having fun or whatever I think that what we what we world perhaps in her continued journey season to come to find that maybe it was emily's own own ambivalent relationship to fame that stopped her from publishing and it. It wasn't just her dad. Saying no emily's instagram would have been mad langourous. Oh my God so language thanks so before we exit the segment. I have to ask what does it feel like to be looking at the screen and say you know what I hear a billy Irish song here and a trillion dollar company goes and gets the billy militia right there right where Elena wanted. I want this man. It's like a dresser guys suddenly bring it in and I didn't know about until the trillion dollar company introduced me commuters. So that was that was exciting and and it worked. It worked very well. I hope I hope billy is happy because I feel like if you're going to see your song used in a scene seen it might as well be a scene where was Khalifa's playing death and Hailee Steinfeld playing Emily Dickinson America riding in a carriage pulled by horses. So I think you've got the last word that so you know. I happen to know that you may have listened to our podcast asked once or twice. So you're familiar with general format. Will you stick around and endorsed with us to glory. Be Thank you very much. All right well now is the moment in our podcast and when we endorse mountain. Aw come anytime isn't as I'm speaking. I'll just hear it now. Mid Air all right so I want to do one local endorsement about Los Angeles and then to balance it out something else. That's global that everybody who's listening. All over. The world could participate in so there are a lot of things to choose from run. Because I've been here for a few days. I got her a little earlier than my co hosts to have some research time and I feel like this is the trip where I sort of for the very first time fantasized about living in La and what it would be liked and the reason that doesn't often happen is because I don't drive I haven't driven in twenty years or so since I moved to New York and so when you don't drive and you're in La you had a very strange experience. I actually love walking here. I always walk when I'm here a lot but of course you know you're not really getting around much of town when you're doing micro exploring small neighborhood in the area that I usually stay when I come here just because it's convenient to the stuff I want to do which is basically go to the Herrick library greatest research facility ability in the world of film. That Academy Library is I saying. The General Wilshire Lacrima area right and somebody loves that neighbor. I don't even know if that is thought of as a neighborhood. Would you call that Miracle Mile. I guess that area so I guess what I WanNa want to shout out. Is this apparently very generic but secretly wonderful thing in a strip mall on the Miracle Mile and in a larger sense just shouting out and maybe asking our our listeners. As well to to contribute other mysteries that inhabit the many strip malls of La Right. So you're driving along and there's all these pink stucco somewhat generic places places where the signs have only one of the few that they seem to have chosen between when they were all built at once and and yet so many of them contain mysteries within them right. I mean we're here near Koreatown and there's all these mysterious Korean Strip malls that I would love to know what wonders they hold so this particular strip mall is at the corner of Wilshire and crescent heights. Boulevard looks completely. Generic has a nail salon has a male postal place. Has this cafe called cafe law which is so generic sounding so it's such a generic sounding cafe. Fa you might think it's just one of those places that just has three dry pastries and some coffee and nowhere to sit you know. Just because of the location generic name but it but it happens. Concern is around the corner from the hotel I'm staying. I've gone for breakfast every morning this whole trip. And it's just wonderful throwback I feel like he's a throwback to an old style of restaurant running where there's this old man who runs it who obviously treasures restaurant and wants to be running credibly. Well I'M NOT GONNA say the food is exceptional. It's a diner. It's tasty diner food. That served hot and perfectly good but what makes cafe lachey special is really just that they'll let you sit there as long as you want. It's a wonderful writing spot. The WIFI strong. The services hum you just feel so important special while you're there and after three days of me going there in the morning and just you know having my eggs and coffee or whatever. They knew me by the third morning they they knew we knew each table. I like to sit at. Just bring your water. It's just the perfect time. It was sort of like not hovering but very loving and and I just shook the owners hand on the last day and just said every time I come to La okay. I'm GonNa come to your restaurant and thank you for running such a wonderful place and he was really touched so I'm shouting out to coffee and hoping that people will send me their favorite strip mall secrets of La for my global one. I can't decide. Should I do all right. Here is going to be the choice. a book about Emily Dickinson or a special online funny secret. I'll do I'll do both of them at some point but it should. I do. Choose your own endorsement. This is wild applause for the emily. Dickinson recommendation okay. And the silly online line funny secret. My endorsement is Dickinson related so Dickinson. We'll NOCCO shouted out with anybody. Wants to know. Oh about that book I can. I can tweet about it or something. It's a great book. So many great books about her. Okay the funny online secret life to look at my card to make sure I get all the details right. The funny online secret is that you go on Youtube and you enter the words. Oh Fortuna misheard lyrics and you get a post at some youtuber. Random person put up of the CARMINA BURANA chorus. I'm sure that you all know it. The Carl or of course that's constantly used in horror movies or it's often sporadically to is just. If I sing a little bit of it you'll know it pop up Pacino. It yeah the but also just please keep doing that. So that's this piece of music written in the thirties by Carl. ORFF's setting this Latin Poem Evil Latin poem to music That's about Fortune Fortuna. And because it sounds kind of apocalyptic it's often used in horror movies are parodies of horror movies and by now it's become a cliche even to use it as a parody thirty pieces just in commercials it's everywhere And so this person just did did the lyrics. This person took some little pieces of paper and it's very low budget and and wrote out what they thought the lyrics Latin lyrics of Fortuna sound like and the only two lines. I can remember right now off hand. Are this octopus. Let's give him boots continues at that level of absurdity but if they actually get it in almost every case it sounds exactly like the lead. You're saying it's so ridiculous and it just goes on for about a minute and a half but I guarantee if you turn this on youtube with a friend. It's my daughter thank you. Oh my thirteen year old daughter. Who introduced it to me? You'll be on the floor. You'll be sending it to someone else within minutes so misheard lyrics on Youtube. It's my endorsement. No All right well. It's fun to talk about Emily Dickinson. And it's especially fund dog bit. Emily Dickinson with someone who spent so much time thinking seriously about her And so I wanted suggest share an emily Dickinson poem. The first one not the first one I ever read but one of the ones where I felt absolutely absolutely electrified by her ability to capture. How what my new mundane experiences actually feel like in one of those ways that does make you feel like Whoa the past? They thought they were in the present All all right. So here's here's an old. Save a narrow fellow in the grass occasionally rides. You may have met him. Did you not got his notice. Instant is the grass divides as with a comb. A spotted shaft is seen and then it closes at your feet eight and opens further on. He likes a boggy Acre. A floor to cool for corn but when a boy and barefoot I more than once at noon have passed I thought a whiplash unb raiding in the sun when stooping to secure it it wrinkled and was gone. Several live nature's people I know and they know me. I feel for them a transport of cordiality. That's missing the last a bit. It is the last. The last line is zero at the bone. Two Zero Ricky iphone the thing that Madrid. Excuse me. This is all apples fall but never met. This fellow attended or alone alone without a tighter breathing and zero at the bone That's about a snake guys is all right Elena. Very excited here you are well. It's funny because I didn't realize until you started talking that this is a local. La Endorsement Endorsement. which is that? I'm going to endorse Tarot cards. Yeah I just I love Terro Ero. I feel like there's been a lot of attention. Paid recently to astrology and like millennials being into astrology but I say focus on Tarot pro can be. I think if you can't afford therapy you can pull out a Tarot card and get get something from it. No this is home. Tarot were storefront Tarot any. But I do believe in doing Tarot Over yourself yeah I think you should like sit with the Tarot cards study them. Like Tarot cards are just archetypes. And and you can practice storytelling through this combination of chance operations. Your own intuition. And you know archetypes that have lasted through centuries and I find it I find it like really really helpful and I use it personally me like guidance for myself and also just like a fun party trick and conversation starter. So yeah I pull. I pulled a Tarot card today. That was justice so I don't know maybe that's about impeachment or something like that. The stuck the landing all right so since Dana turned into a little game I will too which is so name. Another woman writer from the Canon. Who's been made for better for worse? Conic many any readers have a somewhat fetishistic relationship to her work but when you actually read it especially one work in particular. She's not who thinks thinks she's going to be. I am finally reading a book called the bomb. I'm reading the budget. I've I've never read the Bell Jar and I. It is a completely different book from the One. I'm expecting. I mean I have in my head what I know of Sylvia Plath. I know from her her biography and from her per poetry and the bell jar is such a blast of why is is Acre energy from the nineteen fifties. That has more holden Caufield in it than it has what one might have thought prejudicially about Sylvia will be a plath going in absolutely fucking love it. I mean just the energy of it. The intensity of the confidence of the language of it and and the sheer fucking attitude and ising of it is so I mean shame on me for expecting anything for a for not having read the book until I turned one hundred seventy two and secondly for for for bringing a incredibly reductive stereotype to it. But it's just an amazing book and then very quickly. I want to endorse an essay. I just read about which I have mixed feelings about the quality of the essay. which is superlative? Through and through its by Barbara Ehrenreich so almost inevitably it was going to be superb. It's called the humanoid stain and it's on the baffler website and it's in the printed baffler too. I'm sure but she makes this incredible argument about well first of all it's SAS. Stick to the core right. She's really sort of trying out an idea in that classic old. Sas Stick Way and the idea is basically the sort of opening discursive gambit of it is I too am hunkering down and hiding out from the trump years. We're all finding our own psychological resistances in addition to joining in the resistance. We all have have our own privately. Chosen and maybe idiosyncratic ones and mine Barbara Ehrenreich is becoming obsessed with the cave paintings and she just kind of pardon pardon the idiotic joke but just sort of crawled down this whole with the cave paintings and she came up with this idea that they're in what's so so alluring and provocative to her about the cave paintings and she thinks in somewhat subliminal way to everybody about the cave paintings is that they're utterly human right there evidence of us being of us being human at the same time the evidence of us being human without having an ego in a way like our place in the Universe is completely different conceived of an a totally almost totally alien way in those cave paintings. And it's in this ego looseness. She posits in a very tentative in essays. The way we might find a self hood that takes us out of the inevitable path of destruction that is climate climate change and that somehow consuming the earth. As if it's a commodity and therefore us to exploit and us up and therefore eat away the basis for our very own very existence that is somehow rooted in having lost this kind of egoists sell food and I. I don't know if I agree with it. There are moments when I'm like Juliet. Turner in me comes out. I'm like Wade is SAC. Like this is such a like pre laps area argument. We were wants ONS perfectly at one with the bub-bubba Bullshit. That's not true. There's no political salvation imagining what we were fifty thousand years ago. Seventy five thousand years ago and then trying to mimic it in in some way but it is so beautifully written argued. It's a rhetorical masterpiece and it does exactly what an essay should do which is really makes you think I think even when you're disagreeing with highly recommended I mean Barbara. Ehrenreich is one of the in the Pantheon right one of the heroes. It's humanoid stain on Baffler. Thank you very very much for coming on the show in a genuine thrilled to have had you as a listener surpassed only by having you on the show and you get to be showrunner for your show is just a marvelous turn of events. Juliet Turner thank you. Thank you and Dane Funsho. You'll find links to some of the things we talked about today at our show page. That's at slate dot com slash Kultura. Fest you can email us at. I said I say every week and it really is through. The Mail is getting better and better and better and better we love corresponding with our listeners. Can Email US culture fest at slate Dot Com. We have a twitter feed at slate. Cult fest our producers. There's Benjamin fresh. Our production assistant is Rachel Allen. Thank you very very much to face. Smith without whom this event never would have been pulled off and Britt pulley as well efforts also went into making this possible and to the very wonderful city of Los Angeles Department of Culture of Cultural Affairs and the Barnes Doll Gallery Theater. This was a wonderful space to do the show and and to you guys for showing up. This was a blast. Thank you very much before we go. Electric cars may seem a little different but new technology always seems weird at first I even podcast seemed weird when they first came out in the early two thousands they were called audio blogs and they were downloaded onto MP three players but now people all over the world. Listen podcasts. All the time on every sort of device and just like podcasts. Electric cars are normal. Now they have longer ranges meaning. They're not just for work commutes. So you can take an electric vehicle to your weekend getaway right away or even on a longer road trip. They have faster recharging time. So you don't have to wait around all day for charge and there are more models to choose from sedans. SUV's luxury vehicles and and even motorcycles. So you can find one that fits your life with more affordable models and less routine maintenance. They may actually help you save money electric cars. They're normal now learn more at normal now dot com.
69 - Viruses
"Hello and welcome to sideshow Tannin Slightly Competitive Knowledge Showcase starring some of the geniuses. That make the Youtube series. Sideshow happen this week. Hank is not here. But I'm here Sam Scholz hosting instead of ink and joining me is Stefan Kim. Nanna ask you this kind of question. Hank asks you Steffan. What's your favorite Dinosaur Stegosaurus? Everybody's Veritas or. No one was thinking of visualize. Kylo source the one with the big tail second-best the weapons are also with US Syria Riley. Hello Sarah what's your favorite dinosaur. Oh I got the same question. Yeah maybe a police you soar and goes the ocean ones dinosaur shooting if it swims or flies. It's not a dinosaur shoots raptors like little route velociraptor velociraptor. I feel like they didn't look they're like chicken sized small more cute than scary. Yeah respectable choice. Well who's that well surprise? Hank is on assignment. He's gone but in his place. We have chakravarty our editorial assistant and also the host of the upcoming crash course organic chemistry height of okay. Hi Hung excited to be here but also so nervous. It's like it when you can go on jeopardy. I feel like which one of US Alex trebek's Premie Jennings. The bad boy of bad. James Bet. Psalms stole headed guy. Who's like all in? Yeah you're well anyway. That's your favorite dinosaur. I go with the triceratops grant answer and I'm Sam Schultz like I said before. My favorite dinosaur is the long neck one every week. Current Hand Vince. We get together and try to one up amazing delight. Each Other was science. Facts were playing for glory Barossa. Also keeping score and awarding Sambat from week to week We do everything we can stand topic. But judging by previous conversations we are not very good at that and we'll maybe even worse without hank hair to keep a straight so off the rest of the team deems attention unworthy will force you to give up one SAM bucks so tangent with care and this week as always we introduce topic with the traditional science this week by me. In the style of Emily Dickinson's hope is a thing with feathers. A virus is the thing with proteins that purchase on a cell and replicates. It's nasty jeans and never stops at all till T. cells and their friends arrive and sore must be your body while they smashed the little guys making your nose snotty. I've had the chills and fever to have thrown up quite a lot because of virus drifted in and an illness. I have got a lot of that. Was Emily Dickinson. You Owe almost. None of it was anymore. That's the right word structure. Also thanks. Emily Dickenson didn't allow the work to Emily Dickinson known about viruses. I think she would have. She wrote appartments birds. This week's theme is viruses too bulky. Jerry what is viruses? What basically their little capsules with genetic material inside either DNA or aren either kinds depending on the virus they are extremely tiny most of them like by and large are much smaller than bacteria and it can cause some of the diseases that we have like the ones. Listen your poem like the common cold is a viral infection. Flu is a viral infection. But like you can have bacterial infections as well One of the key things about viruses I think is that they use our other cells to reproduce. They can't do anything really on their own just like a bit of DNA DNA or are Shell Ray. Shell gene pill Yes other cells swallow. Sorry no no keep going so other cells swallow them and then they're like do my bidding sell should've let the book you started co-. So virus yet like you're saying they are. They're their DNA packed up or some kind of genetic material packed up in protein. And they just don't have that machinery to basically do what you need to do when you're living thing which is to keep replicating your DNA so they hijacked cells basically say. Hey you got all that machinery. Why don't you do this for me? I mean they don't they don't ask they just do and so so they have different ways of doing this. They they have like different proteins that will basically get them into a cell. They have mechanisms to integrate into the DNA. All of these things and then the the cell will not only make the DNA. They'll make those proteins and everything take get recapitulated back into a virus. Then the cycle repeats. Why are they come from or not entirely sure? The big debate about viruses is whether they're alive or not why they're on. The edge is because like Tokyo said they can't reproduce without a host so if like we couldn't survive and create energy and reproduce on our own than should we be considered alive but may have genetic material and they like can do things and so must do when he mean I guess by do things they can infect things may have the genetic material to replicate themselves. They just can't like Make it work as they have no moving parts maybe I don't know how they squirting things and stuff like that chemical binding starts getting into the weird matthey part of biology where it's like. There's a probability of these two things connecting and chemicals make their have a higher probability statistics excetera. We don't need to talk about some of the Comics. But as far as why they exist people are like. I don't know maybe there was some floating genetic material because like our bodies have under proteins in them to then so I don't know how did any cell exist at some point Genetic material got like encapsulated by something else and so in this case instead of getting encapsulated by cell membrane which is encapsulated by a protein. And then okay somehow kept replicating at her. Life is weird. The first line of my poem was they have proteins swing part. That was right. Is there like a virus family tree or are they just a bunch of Weirdos floating around some hard to figure out a lot of our trees that we use In biology are built on understanding. How genetic sex sequences are related to each other and with viruses both because they mutate so much that super tough and then they're so tiny hard to isolate like. It's very tough to out. How they're all related. Do you WanNa know the etymology of virus. Oh Gosh yes. It's from the Latin. Also VIRUS FOR POISON. Sap of plants slimy liquid a potent juice or like a basically Latin and Greek roots for poison. Which is interesting because they were just like this is a bad thing. Might understand microbes yet or disease yet and on wikipedia. Looked like we've only been like aware of viruses from like the eighteen forties or something like that. It's very recent people have sort of had a sense that like there are invisible things that are like affecting your health for a long time before we knew what microbes even work. So I think this was like just narrowing down the different different types of invisible things that are out there. It's not necessarily a bad stink. Tiny little guy about bacteria and things. I and so it's like we can grow those on a Petri dish viruses need hosts. They're harder to isolate. That happened even in the early. Nineteen hundreds with a virus and a tobacco. Plant wasn't even an animal virus. It was like Oh. This plants acting weird. Why isolating wikipedia sides back backtrack. I think we know viruses are so we're GONNA move on to one of our panelists has prepared three signs facts for education and enjoyment but only one of them is true. The other two are giant lies. The three other panelists had to figure out deduction while guests which fact is true. And if we do we gonNA sandbox. And if we don't then bookie who is our truth. Our failure this week gets the sandbox tuna book. What are your facts? Okay viruses don't just infect us they don't infect humans they can also infect plants and so that is kind of terrifying because plants and crops are important to us so the following three things that I'm going to tell you about our stories from history of time when viruses wreaked havoc on US indirectly through plants. Back Number One. Tulips made their way to the Netherlands towards the beginning of the seventeenth century. Where as the TULIP MANIA STORY GOES? They may have set off a bit of a bubble as people spend large amounts of money trying to buy the most beautiful varieties. The most striking one of all was the burke. Tulips Sumter Augustus. Which had these gorgeous stripes that everyone wanted but had hard time cultivating? Unfortunately they didn't know that the breaking of the Tulip into those stripes for the product of a Pony virus that as viruses are want to do killed off the tulip making the market. That much more of a gamble fact number two in eighteen ninety eight. The dreaded Dafa virus decimated the American chestnut tree population which was a problem because this was the tree of choice to produce coffins in the US. Cities and towns faced a critical shortage of coffins. That turned into a public health. Concern as corpses began to pile up in response to this reduced supply. The cost of coffins went way up leaving many public health officials panic over what to do with the unburied corpses in their town. One official in Pittsburgh became so concerned for a city that he turned to robbery we routing a train to DC that had some precious coffins apply to his own city fact number three similar oranges or Dick. Upon are in my opinion the best oranges and there are also the product of a nineteen seventy four viral epidemic in Japan. The culprit was citrus. Trista virus a virus. That is the bane of many a fruit grower because basically wipes citrus fruit out during the Japanese outbreak which destroyed many of their trees. One of the few trees remaining was the Deco pantry across that one. Grower had been experimenting with between two other varieties. That was somehow to the virus and now we have the day coupon. These are the new and improved oranges. So yeah fact. Number one ODI virus was making striped tulips but also was deadly to those tulips fact number two. The in Dorothy of virus decimated American chestnut trees leading to coffin shortages for number three sumo oranges or Decca. Pons are the best orange. According to the book is also the product of a nineteen seventy four viral epidemic. Not The product of but the solution to tulips chestnuts. Our oranges take just burn the bodies right. I believe that one also just use a different tree. Yeah I do know that. The American chestnut tree well. I shouldn't say I know I think. The American chestnut tree underwent some kind of decimation. But I don't know what it is like a pretty hefty tree like. You won't take. I think a birch tree is that the white one. That's really skinny. No coffeemaker worth their salt birch trees. I don't know what these oranges tastes like. But I wanNA try one now. This makes sense to me that they like almost killed out all the trees and the new like yes turns out. This one's fine because that's kind of like what happened to bananas. Maybe that makes it a good lie change into different views easy and tulips. I have no idea. So it'd be a gamble. Because sometimes it would kill the stripy one. And sometimes it wouldn't kill the stripe one. Is that what viruses the source right of the straightness so it was just like reducing the supply because they would die? Is that the thing. Yeah okay harder for them to grow in mass amounts to grow bunch but then it's a great business model. I have to say when you make something that's in short supply In charge a lot for it. That's pretty oranges. I think I'm also going to go for now. But I do think there's something to be about. Just switch bananas out for Oranges Yes yeah. Tulips seem pretty convincing. I was on the fence between those two and if Sam had gone I I would have voted for tulips. I feel like the tulips is the is the real one. It's nobody's coffins. That's the fakest fake of I think that if it's wrong be mad because I got persuaded and I didn't think for myself at all or do you want to change to coffins demoting okay. Are you guys ready? It was the tulips. You're right that the fruit one was definitely just a sub out the fruit. I was thinking about Meyer Lemons which was in the nineteen sixties. There was a huge epidemic of the of this virus this the citrus virus that wiped out almost all the trees and California. And then just this one tree left. That Lake was the one that somehow is not infected. And that is the source of our Myers elements. That's I don't know about all of them. But that's yeah okay. St The the new and improved. Meyer Levin I think is what it's called with regards to the coffin shortage as you guys said there was an epidemic that kind of wipe not kind of definitely wiped out the American chestnut trees on but it was a fungal thing but in one thousand nine hundred nine there was an actual coffin shortage in DC but it was because of an influenza epidemic. Flu was espionage. Yeah and so. The public official in charge was pretty much like we don't have coffins. This is becoming terrible. They can get people to bury the bodies with this whole thing and he actually got a train that was on route to Pittsburgh to be rerouted to DC so that they could take their coffins then because he had wartime powers. I guess like I guess was a public health official. The cost of coffins had been getting super super high and so like everyone's getting frustrated like there was actually an op-ed in Washington Post. About how like stupidly expensive coffins were at this time and he seized on his wartime powers and basically demand that all the coffins be sent to him and said like this is going to be the price of the coffins. He adjusted for the better. Yes it made it so that they could actually get coffins to bury people in. Were they made out of chestnut trees? I don't know but yes the tulips of that basically inspired so much obsession and love in the Netherlands that some people called to. Menia apparently economists. Now sort of debate. Whether that's actually the case. It might not be a bubble because supposedly there is some rational behavior associated with it because it was a good that was actually a compelling thing to buy time. Tulips still thing except for this one tulip that everyone was most obsessed with which had these gorgeous gorgeous stripes. They're called broken tulips. Because I guess it's like breaking into color and they were infected with this virus called the tool of late breaking virus which we didn't know about I think until like the nineteen thirties. The flowers were so frail because of the virus that artists were actually commissioned to paint them. People were so proud of this flower that they own but also so worried about them dying that they were like to paint my our guess still have people but they still. They didn't know it was a virus. They just knew that this. This flower was gorgeous and somehow died easily. They also didn't know how to cultivate it because they didn't know that the reason why these different flowers were getting this because these insects I think were transmitting. The virus between them so they just pop up every now and yeah. It'd be like Steve Clover. Yeah and so. That's what actually made this market as people. Were basically speculating around tulip bulbs. They were getting. These tulip bulbs that were they. Were like hoping would end up being the super beautiful flower and the calving to wait to see what would have got Japan. Mrs Just loobox get a rare tulip. Are you going to get a stupid common except like everything back? Then you had to wait like seven months and you know instantaneous shoulder which is probably why it actually one away my favorite stat from this like in terms of the money again not all. Tulips went for like stupid amount of money. But one went for three thousand guilders which was a lot of money apparently There's a that I saw Tallis like how much you could buy for. Three thousand guilders includes eight fat pigs. I knew it was GONNA be a thousand pounds of cheese is in there. That's true and a whole list one hundred or ship no and even more everything together. Yeah how much higgs worth well can make more pigs out of them. You can bacon out of them. I don't know what else cheap enough you could just like. That's with your leftover money was pig. Money one additional post grip. You can get stripy tulips. Now that don't have the virus by people had to cultivate those and took a lot of work all right. That was very good. That was extremely good and extremely tricky. Wasn't really tricky. I'm glad I wasn't sure you wrote big historical fan fan about what I like to do. All right next up we're GONNA take a short break and then the fact off all right we're back. Let's go over the scores. Shall we say? Are you have zero points at one point for my poem? Stephan has one point for guessing bid and nobody has two points. Very very tricky. Now get ready Stephan and Sadie for the factor where each of you will bring a science factor presents to us in an attempt to blow our minds. We each have a handbook to a word to the fact that we like the most but of both facts are bad. Or you're gonNA throw him in the trash and to decide who goes first. You're going to answer this question whoever's closest gifts to decide if they go first or not in what decade was human corona virus. I identified our say the Nineteen Seventies. Let's go nineties radicals. We'll see the moltke. WanNa guess just for fun. I'll go eighties boy. It was the nineteen sixties own. Even better decade Stephan Ugo. I woke a two thousand sixteen a team the US Army Medical Research Institute of Infectious Disease was looking for mosquito borne diseases to help fight epidemics and they found a virus that was infecting mosquitoes in in. Trinidad as we talked about earlier like viruses. You've got a bit of genetic data that's contained in a protein capsule and in most cases all of the data is contained in this protein capsule. But there's a type of virus that they found in these mosquitoes. That's very weird. Because instead of all the information being contained in that one package this virus splits the genome into multiple pieces and then individually wraps them into five unique packages and they call this a multicomponent virus. And so you have these five different packages of Info that get sent out into the world and then in order to infect a new cell. The new cell has to like collect the whole set and like get at least four out of the five of these packages in order to make it work and it's a specific four out of five. The fifth one is Has the amount of gene information in it and it seems like it's optional. For making the virus work. So it's not any four right like the monopoly tokens on McDonald's. You go there you go at least four or five to win the prize which is being infected. Yes and the fifth one is like Baltic Avenue. Exactly this specific virus they found is called Waco Kulik virus or G V and GEICO. I'm sherm saying that terribly. That's the city in Trinidad where they found the mosquitoes and collects or culex genus of mosquitoes. So after sequencing this genome they found that it's part of a group of viruses that are called kingman viruses. And that's named after a virus that they found in a city in China but all of the viruses in that group have these segmented genomes with at least four segments each but g V is the only one that we know of that uses this multicomponent like packaging system. One of the viruses in this group has been found in monkeys so that one can infect non-human primates but with this virus e. V seems to be specific to mosquitoes. So it's not something that we probably have to worry about the piece of information that I've been a little bit like avoiding talking about until now is that this multicomponent packaging strategy is something. That's pretty common in viruses that infect plants and fungi. But it's not something that we found in animals until this twenty sixteen paper. It seems like we don't really know why that is. I mean splitting up the genome and like having to wrap each one and then having to get all four into a cell is like a pretty inefficient way of transmitting data. So it seems like that's a disadvantage to doing it that way but they think that might be an adaptation to some of the differences between plant and Animal. Cells may be having to do with plant cell walls but with this discovery. Now we at least know that it's possible for these kinds of viruses infecting animals as well. That's so cool. I had no idea these things existed. And they're like evil trading cards. It kind of reminds me a little bit of how we use viruses actually for genetic engineering purposes. I don't think it's the exact same because this is different. Part of virus particles that have different components of the genetic material. Ray But when when you use viruses for genetic engineering purposes which people like to do. Because they're really great at integrating DNA into other cells. You also want to be safe because you're dealing with viruses and one way that people have engineered safety until this process is by taking the different pieces of viral DNA and putting them on different parts of DNA that you can store separately until you actually need them to make your virus so you only mix them together like when you're actually getting ready to make your virus particle so they're kind of like a multicomponent system that only get mixed the end to make that fire final virus. I was like stuffing I so that I can built my confidence to do my fact now. His factor so good and mine is also vaguely related. Which is weird. There are lots of different kinds of irises. But the one I wanNA talk about is half of an unlikely Dream Team a parasitic wasp and a poly DNA virus so different species of parasitic wasps have different polity viruses specific to them and not all of them. Have this partnership going on. But the general symbiotic relationship between them is the same. The parasitic wasp wants to lay its eggs in a caterpillar so that they can hatch and eat the caterpillar flesh because tasty we and caterpillars have immune systems to protect us from invaders so the polly DNA viruses basically act as the wasp's Venom and get injected into the Caterpillar to compromise the immune system so that the wasp eggs can survive and grow which is what the packages made me think of. It's like here have some virus and then also my eggs and the polly. Dna virus as much as a virus can want anything like wants to make more of itself. Normally it would need a host because all viruses need hosts but particularly needs these parasitic wasps. Because it doesn't have the genetic material to do it without them so pro viruses get passed down from generation to generation of Wasp just because they're incorporated in their genome and the viruses only created an Calix cells in the reproductive tract of female wasps because the viruses don't have the genetic material for replication themselves. And so they don't proliferate on their own in the Caterpillar. They need the wasp to make more of themselves. So basically polly. Dna viruses are really weird because they mess up the definition of virus even more because it's in the middle ground of having everything replication except for their host and remnant virus ingrained into our DNA. It's like ingrained into something else as DNA and when the wasp was like time to lay eggs than their viruses wide is that considered a virus at all. I think it's considered a virus because the genetic sequence that it's from was originally from a virus that we think infected the wasp and it acts like a virus in that it replicates at the pieces of virus which is genetic material surrounded by protein and in the Caterpillar it. It's like a distraction to the immune system because the Caterpillar's immune system is like a virus and then starts dealing with that without realizing is bigger problem. Which is egg. That is the hatch. So we have multi part viruses to collect the right group to get sick or we've got parasitic WASP virus egg babies. By right yeah okay. One two three Sarry. What oh I got rerouted wasn't smart enough to understand yours and then these guys said well. That's so cool and it's like Oh yeah okay. Thanks honorary curry well. Let's move on to ask the science couch where we ask clients questions to our catch. A finely honed. Scientific minds are question is from at flux filter and they ask can viruses jump from plants to people in the same way they can sometimes jump from other animals people so animals that can be vectors of disease like rats or mosquitoes can carry viruses then like we can get in contact with their poop or they can bite us and somehow get the virus into our system but plants don't poop or even more you consume them They're still with plants because the focus here I now have science couch seniority. And so I'm going to be the hang of this episode and just take a wild stab in the dark say that because animals and humans have similar kinds of cells to like we have like squishy cell membranes than the viruses that infect our different populations can more easily like they recognize an animal cell and can recognize humans on this probably similar proteins. Let it go inside but with plant cells. They're they're just like structured differently their cell walls Holding everything in they they have chloroplast and Mighty Andrea and we just have Monica Andrea. There's like differences in the structure of plant cells. That I imagine to be a plant virus. You need to have like a different set of breaking and entering skills. And so that's why there's not a lot of cross transmission because you need to be like a very berry multitalented virus to jump from plant to human so. I don't think there are any but dubose. He actually research. Yeah so the the answer is that we don't really quite know which is how all good biology questions really go. So sort of like in line with what Syria saying like there is sort of this general belief that plant viruses cannot make it over into animals in particular vertebrates like there are a lot of insects will act as lake Vectors for transmission of viruses from one plant to another by. It doesn't seem like they're really any plant viruses that made their way into humans except that researchers have also looked into Or not there is evidence of plant viruses ever having been inside of us. So there's a study where the scientists looked at the human subjects fecal samples and isolated by particles to get their sequences and they found that from those viruses. There were a bunch that look like plant viruses and that some of those plant viruses actually look like viruses that come out of commercial crops so things that you're probably eating in one of the ones that I think people are kind of latching onto as potential evidence that there are plant viruses. That can make it into us. Is this virus called pepper? Mild mottle virus or P. M. M. O. V. which apparently And other follow up studies. People have found does seem to make it what's way into humans Another study where they actually again tested stool samples and then also looked at food products. That had chili pepper in it to see that virus was in the Chili Pepper and also in these stool samples and they. They found it in both. It was definitely in a higher percentage of the Chili pepper products compared to people. But it was. Were we able to see if it was like actually interacting with our cells or is it just like it passed through and we poop it out so there was evidence that there were antibodies that were able to bind to the virus which is potentially assigned that there is some kind of interaction between our immune system and this virus but it does not mean that we are like actually dealing with transmission like this full disease for a plan to us either so basically one of the problems that were not actually seeing like that the virus may is making its way into a cell putting its DNA and they're getting it in there really not hijacking machinery. That's like going full virus? You know taking advantage of it and replicating in that way so it seems to be there but we don't really know what it's doing so no one has like eaten a chilly and then the flu based on a virus out of Atlanta there were. There was a fever abdominal pain and itching. But they're eating chili peppers like again. They're they're not sure that it's really a virus that is causing problems for the people. If you wanna ask the science couch follow us on twitter at Sei show tangents and every week will tweet out the topic for upcoming episodes and you can send us whatever you want to know. Thank you to the j man to some of the golden at crab shouting and everyone else who tweeted us your questions for this episode final sandbox scores Sarry. You came back and you have two points tied for first with the bookie who also has two points. I have one point. Stephan has point the way it should be. No you like this show and you want to help us out. It's really easy to do that. I leave US review wherever you listen. It's super helpful. Especially tunes puts us up on them charts. Second to your favorite moment from this episode and finally if you want to show you love cy showed. Hinton's just tell people about us at the same time we say. Okay okay well. I won't try it again next week. The book Chairman Remember. Please thank you for joining us. If you want to hear more from dookie be sure to keep an eye out for crash. Course organic chemistry coming. In April Book January people check you out. Yeah I'm on twitter at Okeydokey four Bogie and I also right for journey to the microcosms. So you should also check that out especially if you WANNA learn about the things that are a little bit bigger than viruses but also justice. Cool all right. So thank you for CY. Should I have been Sam Schultz? I've been Stephenson Riley. I've been Birdie. Okay close enough. Sideshow tangents is a CO production of complexity and the wonderful team at WNYC studios. It's created by all of us and produced by Caleb Hofmeister Emmy Sam Schultz who also edits a lot of these episodes along with her Oakland. Shema are sound designers. Joseph Tuna Mesh our social media organisers Victoria Buongiorno. And we couldn't make any of this with our Patriots on Patriots. Thank you and remember. I just say Hank saying the act can make something up. Thank you and remember. He's reframe Bro. But one more thing a DNA virus and part of an Ra virus were resurrected from seven hundred year old frozen Caribou poop but they're very different from modern viruses and we're not sure what they infected. We think it's maybe a plant or Lichen but part of why we don't know is because we don't study a lot of sub Arctic viruses. Basically what this means is we don't have to really worry but maybe we should be a tiny bit worried because viruses can be frozen and then resuscitated after hundreds of years. Incheon thank viruses legitimately free. How big of a concern is that should? Should it be to me? Lo a higher now that fly climate changes everything is very melting.
FOF #2724 Love for Sale
"Yeah. In the modern age privacy has become the key battleground World War three is thankfully, not yet being fought with nuclear weapons, but with dick pics and headless torsos on Grindr. The US is forcing Kunlun tech. The Chinese owners of grinder to sell their stake in the gay dating app. Because experts suggest the app is a major security risk. Meanwhile, some folks have given up on social media and Danny apps because it's too much. Trouble to deal with all the madness today performance artists and cooking drag Queen vita sometime Amita joins us to take a look at the crazy mixed up world of gay dating apps -rageous and delicious drag performances and her adventures as an HIV educator in Malawi, plus Molly, Shannon out celebrated poet, Emily Dickinson in the new film while nights with Emily. Madonna leaves portu-. Aghil on horseback. And the city of Chicago jobs all charges against Jesse small at and now the FBI is looking into it. I'm I'm Mark villian. And this is feast of fun. Along. Yeah. Just all you gotta do is every time. I say, my you guys, go mom. Okay. I my mind. Your cattle. On my yoke yet. Oh, mama. Mama, mama. Dr to Pepe Dr Japan. Dr CHU PETA to up your memorial care. Your gear on. I'm not. Now, this is an English give the nipple give the nipple give the nipple or the baby won't cry. Isn't that lovely? But that's great. Drag Queen from but as Bill Katamon made on who was so famous such big star of the time that even Bugs Bunny dressed up in drag to pay tribute to her in the cartoon resist hat made a fruits, and it's not only delicious edible. Just like our guest today is the delicious performance artists. Vita Fanta Mita. Thank you for having me. Who is our Judy good friend here, and she loves to cook. And she likes to cross dress for your entertainment, pleasure on social media. And also does weird performances to shares music. What what is it the song that you did however isn't to share it involved chairs the United like when chair that you sit out not share them for thinking? Nothing to do charity said share. Okay. Actual chairs entertainer know that the actual sitting thing device chair. And what did you do? With those chairs I dislike played track of classical music. What is right now? And just like I was doing this performance in this outdoor decks face. So they're just a bunch of bars, tools and chairs, and I just ran back and forth across the room. Like, you know, pushing things aside, and it was also raining and thundering out so how this like kinda creepy. Describing your last wild night of sex that you had. Yeah. I mean, it was more like my loss like summoning of the devil because I am a wedge. Oh, you are what kind of witch. No a sandwich. Where's the meats? Oh, yeah. Which? Eurasian you grew up in Boston. And then you move to DC and DC you worked overseas for the for the core. Yeah. I did. I did allow we right after college. No one really knows them allowing. So it's fun to be like. Oh, yeah. You know, the place Madonna adopted her kid, and you know, as proud volunteer their superhero over there. Hey her day. Hey, her listen to her music God into six. To the great country vita setup. Amita Madonna is going to steal baby. Please don't let it take my baby. Please know that was my job. I how to like teach people how to make sure their kids wouldn't get of -ducted by Madonna. You know, it's hard work with someone how seriously seriously like what is reputation over the Dave Dave really don't like car. So I think she found out about that country because a lot of developing countries like have like a really boozy resort where you'd like pay a lot of money to live like a villager. So like, you know, you'll say no place month and you'll get water from the bore hole carried on your head like cook with your own fires and things like that. Sure. And I think that's how she found out about the country. And then like, you know, built up this whole like, oh, I'm going to kid and do women's empowerment project completely failed. So everyone associated with these like failed development initiatives as you tried. So the school for girls allow is happening. I think it like when Bank. I don't think it exists anymore. Oh, yeah. No. It really didn't work out. I think Riyan is a little bit more success. Yeah. She does something there. I think she wasn't some humanitarian award recently. And there's like some YouTube documentary about Oprah's school, she's Milwaukee to God. I. Alaui seriously. What did you do allow HIV community education? An okay. Yeah. It was really great. I had like studied health seven trash development in college. So is really great to go there. And I'll tell you like, you know, some trans people they're like the trans in their home do makeup because I was kinda missing it. I mean, not to be on like the download with things can get all day. See like. I think it's fourteen up to fourteen years of imprisonment if you're found like in compromising sexual yeah. Yeah. But even if it's a straight people. Yeah. So so in terms of Madonna's school for girls like has the her presence and Malawi in the country Malory's, not celebrated. Not look positively upon just clarify for the listeners. Oprah's Winfrey's leadership academy for girls is in South Africa. Okay. Where the dynamics might be a little bit better since out Africa's more progressive country than probably Malawi is. Yeah, I don't know too much about. I mean, oh, cave time has a really vibrant queer theme. They have quite a few musicians. I think some like gay clubs and Seth where you were nowhere near there. I mean, it's I guess it's hard to say progressive or not aggressive visas. I think you also have to see homophobia south as like a western cultural product that has made it over there with like years of missionary involvement and things like that. But I think they export it. Yeah. Yeah. We export it to them. Yeah. I mean, I think like people have really talk show without and Uganda. Like, I forgot that guy's name. But that crazy even Joe. Yeah. The thing about it is like, you know, we have a very superficial understanding of what life is like in Africa and for all these different countries. And you know, it's sort of like you wouldn't want someone who lives in New York thinking all Americans are the same based on somebody Annella. Bama, texas. Yeah. Yeah. And I would imagine that in Africa would be the same. Yeah. I mean, the crazy thing there too is like being a gay person you can sometimes almost hide in plain sight because it's totally called truly acceptable there for you to like hold hands at another man in public or be a little bit more physically intimate like not kissing pants down. Yeah. You know? Just like no one's gonna look, you know twice. It's it's interesting. How different places in the world have a different view of what's masculine. Yeah. Here in the United States that we're very, hyper masculine. They don't want hugging kissing and you go to India, Pakistan, all these other places. And just like, you know, they might as well be married. Yeah. Seeking like how crazy skill and he is in America. I recently got this pre workout powder. No. I I mean, that's pretty wild too. But like it's the title of it is a salt like the brand I love that pilot. Yeah. It's just like it's me Harney, actually, doesn't it just makes my hands shake. Oh, yeah. Like may say lips all Bernie and Tinguely. But like for me, I just tried to like what what are you doing with this? I'm like, oh, I'm gonna salt this bench press like cutting you just name it take no prisoners. Yeah. Like super strong work. Oh, I don't know. Like everyone familiar really quickly pre-workout power powders. Basically the quivalent of having a Cup of coffee before heading the gym here, bumper Matthew. Yeah. Assault. Another one is called C four. The rule of right? There was called literally no explode as nitrous oxide explosion. Wow. Did you have a boyfriend in Malawi? Yeah. Yeah. I dated this guy called Rodney he did have a name Suraj because they know you haul out there wondering. He was great. He worked for the only al-jahbi nonprofit in Malawi. And like the way they do like advocacy stuff is like very interesting like their approach was like we're going to take this stuff on from a health perspective. So they're like they would do these -cation initiatives toss. Oh workers and be like if you did ni- a man who has sex with men healthcare. Peers of what you think he is. You're breaking the law because Malawi has pledged universal healthcare faults. Dozens we'd be saying his name if he works is the only person the working of the organization, are you putting didn't say, no, no, no, they Israel. No. Well, it is his name Billy. They apply for grants and stuff. So like, and they have a website that houses name on it so information, you're not betraying his safe. Yeah. I mean, I'll marry him. He can come move here. He needs to. Sorry that was like gravely privilege of me. Well, Mark into certain about his state obvious fine. He is his opening in his community. Mark. Yeah. He has three kids as well. And they know and they're fine with that. So yeah. What what was it that made you want to volunteer with the peace corps? The peace corps is sometimes accused of being a colonialist institute. So that was my interest in my undergrad, I said gender studies Afrikaner studies than economics. And I got fascinated with just like the politics of humanitarianism like how is that that we like problem ties stirred in people as being perverse or lacking or like subhuman or whatever. So for me. I was just fascinated to see how those all play. Oh, like, impersonate, rather them from all these anthropology types. Three was the biggest prize that you experience when you got there and lived and workers in HIV prevention worker, I think for me what was surprising was the hierarchies. I saw among local people once who worked for the government and NGOs and how they internalize all these like, western colonialism's and then. Treat it when they would come visit us and our villages. They were really rude to all the people we would work with his they even had this idea of like rural or village people as backwards or not as smart or whatever there's a lot of condescension from inside of their own community. Yeah. Which people who are not as privilege as they were. Yeah. So for me, it was like the very much drink the Kool aid of peace corps as this new colonial. I actually had a blog. They started night. I got there like critiquing like all the things I took issue than the trainings. And they like have crazy Google alerts or something for these things is after two weeks, they found my blog. I got a call from the director. And they were like you said some pretty like offensive things about how we do our training processes, and we're going to have to ask you to take those the blog down and like vaguely throughout in that. They would make me go home if I didn't. Yeah. Out of it. What's the state of aids in the lower because you know, we we've done this podcast. We're now on our fifteenth. I think it was probably on our first or second season, we had a peace corps worker, and she had been I I'm not sure which country was but they had lost like forty percent of their population to HIV and aids. Yeah, I mean, something that's important to know about like public health statistics. Especially in the developing world is like they usually have the capacity to really test everyone. And so a lot of times though, dude has seen a hotspot area, and then create projections for the rest of the country. And so you see so I mean, it could be true not true. But these were deaths. They yeah. Yeah. But then again, you also have to wonder like are they going deep into the Bush getting death records? Like, I not saying this is the way to say that we've completely over exaggerated the HIV crisis in different parts of the globe. But to me, I think it connects in a lot of the way. Is that in our Jennings of like aids ridden countries that we perceive like the sexualities of the people in. And so did your work with peace corps, which is usually it's about a year in the country or. Yeah. So you came back to the United States. Yes. They came back to DC. And in the meantime, as you're going to school you decided to start a video series on Facebook about you doing a cooking show and drag and two on the record. You know knew nothing about us now now on your own Google cooking, drag queens now the it was twenty fourteen. And I had just graduated and we were in upstate New York for the summer, and I was vegan out the time. And I was really annoying about like, I gave is there any other way. No. And I think the joke was like, I'm already gay. I'm already I'm already vegan. Like, what's the other big thing that like someone needs to say in their first time, they meet you, and it's all I should become a drag Queen too. So. Just sort of add to your resume. Yeah. Yeah. Of noxious like some way. And that's where you sort of developed a name for yourself beat that sometime. I meet the. Yeah. So the veto came from. It was a mea vegan cooking show. So we wanted some like silly alliteration with vegan, and I'm Italian and Spanish, so we did vita like life vibrancy. And then Santa Rita was my last name Santamaria. So, you know, little spin off that. And there you go. Oh, your actual last name is somebody. Yeah. I like to say that I was named after the Bill that didn't make it to colonize America because you know. Ground haiti? Well, the Nina not anaemia inter Illustre NTA Maria. Yeah. They're actually named after sex workers. Do really I did not. Yes. La, Nina means the girl. Meantime means the colored one and Maria as you know, the holy Mary. But well, holy it's a. I guess I don't know how well people know about this. But the the Columbus ships were named after sex workers. I mean, I'm carrying the new world when we think about the new world people like what do they call it the new world? It was just the same reason that new and improved on like, soap, it was a branding thing. Because European call in European monarchies and governments wanted people to invest money and start paying their taxes. Right. So they're gonna expand their revenue, and so the idea of a colonizing the the Americas was that's why they call it the new world because it was to make it shiny. No that never known about it before like to them was new but the emphasis and the calling the new world is the same reason. It was the same mindset right marketing. Yeah. It was not necessarily because people were discovering something it was literally marketed as the new and new and improved with new can be a king of your own mention culture, the new world. That's everyone ended up dying like Charles savvy as they're like, oh, this is such fertile land. And none of them knew it to do. They're. Yeah. A lot of the people who are sort of colonizing the new world in that era had no the first clue how to do shit and a lot of people died. Yeah. They're also like the outcasts of England thing too is a lot of them where people who were not really able to make a big and and London then or the UK whatever then moving elsewhere, so Vida in your Facebook live streaming show stuff that you do. Exactly, you're cooking. Making terrible desserts and out now they were made. What would you make? So the the most interesting game aid was I used silken tofu blended with cocoa powder and some sugar. To make like a creamy pie. Felling? Sounds delicious something like that before it's super low calorie high protein and like bitches love lot. So. Yeah. Packets NutraSweet, Honey talk. Yeah. Just melts off your ties. No, actually you. You can make really gorgeous custard with silken tofu. Yeah. You gotta add some eggs or. You use like flax flax water is like the vegan ethical. Yeah. It's no actually does sort of gel kind of jolly. Yeah. A gar as a as a gelling compound. Yeah. It's not too bad. You know? And so. Recently, you've taken a hiatus, and this gets us to our main story today here Johnny scandaleuse from the owner, the playboy owner SCRUFF might be opening up Allah champagne because is number one nemesis. Grinder the scourge of every gay man and the blessing of every game cell phone and gender non conforming. And because you know, some trans people are on these apps to is being forced to be sold. And so a lot of people are like kind of you know, there's a bit of shot in Freud right with towards these hookup. I think you know, we've we actually knew the guy who founded Jolson Cayenne, I think he initially sold forty million. And there was another additional investment from somebody else for like ninety million. And I think the Chinese bought into it to value that like two hundred forty million Chinese gaming company Chinese American roots? But now the. The committee on foreign investment in the United States didn't have time to review the sale. And now they've gone back and said, no you can't own that. No, you don't. So there's you must sell it. And they're saying this ultra who would have to be somebody that he gets approved by the government allows comes. The US or European company may be giant or something? Yeah. Somebody who's not Chinese. Privacy laws. Don't tech the consumer the way other countries privacy laws would there's also this. But there's also to they think it might be. They might be able to use it for spy because you know, you can maybe you can figure out. Oh, this guy is using his grinder here and this location, then he's also using this location. And you're tracking them all my this guy works for the government. So maybe we'll look at his pictures. Maybe we can blackmail him. Now, that's one kind of thing too. But also to we don't know what they're doing with their information. And we don't know how they're manipulating that information back on that end sending them back to us. Maybe they'll attack us with some kind of weird propaganda. We don't know. Well, also, it doesn't hurt that the CEO the company the Chinese gaming company was in the news talking about how he thinks a real marriage or should be between a man and the woman, and and so he had a backpedals people. Like, what are you doing advertise? You wants really for ties IRS too. Advertise on gay dating app and your own CEO's, literally speaking out against gay people and the US right now to like there's a lot going on between China and the United States as far as technology goes, you know, people are racing to build like the world, I g five network and China wants to the United States wants to do the United States doesn't want to use Chinese products. They all of that probably could be like spyware. And so it's all about what's hardware. Yeah. We'll turn into some kind of spied where gather information. We don't know what that information could do because it's all kind of up in there. They have some ideas. But I don't think they really liked to talk about it because they want to give anybody any ideas. And you know, most recently they arrested somebody in in Canada because daughter. Because they're, you know, they're fighting about this technology. So and so it's the daughter not remembering the details on her name or the name of the company one of China's largest, computer hardware manufacturing companies, and where they rested her inner possession was nothing but apple products. And just two people be like what the impact of that is that you're having a huge faux pas in terms of like high ranking Chinese officials getting caught with American technology as opposed to Chinese technology that they're using is is almost a crime. And in terms of even though it's widely understood that all arcs across the world like to use apple products because of the ability to protect privacy, and they're so sleek and pretty well seen as as a as a as a status of stay. They like the the the status of having specific product. And so, you know, not to say that other computer products don't have their own status. Well, but in terms of privacy, these computer companies don't really value that and so if you're an oligarchy up to no good gas. What they're, you know, they're. Wanna Hughes stuff on a platform that they to protect themselves from getting spied on even though they're number one agenda is on the rest of the world. And so are you understand why privacy is a huge commodity? That's being fought for. It's a battleground it is the the Armageddon battle right now the ages, and so as we've seen this past year so much in terms of our politics here in the United States centers those questions around privacy. And the fact that we have a president that we know very little about we don't know what where Trump is making his money. We don't know much about the Muller report. We might now never see the details of the Muller report. We can't even make our own decision. And on this report that we spent twenty five million dollars developing. So it is privacy is the core of all international politics. The core of this battle and grinder. The laws regulars app in the world is at the center of all amazing. And I wanted to like maybe they were targeted specifically because they were gay, and they're like this isn't easy targets United States government. If we just didn't care about people's dick pics. This would be an issue. You know, you can't block meals someone if you don't if you give crap but I'm wondering like if somebody like a high ranking in person security clearance is feeling the pressure by participating on this app to show themselves in compromising photos like our not gonna get any sacks. If you don't show me your gaping hole. Wow. With a couple of dill dozens of Nellie, right? Yeah. If I don't see it. I don't want it. I mean, you could take it to Instagram. That's what I like to do. That's interesting thing. We started saying platforms, especially with young people, snap, Chad. And. Program. You know, this idea of temporary space for? Permanent data, but some some privacy experts saying there's really no privacy at all. And somebody somewhere has access to your stuff. And so, you know, the sneaker net or just literally showing somebody yourself own, but not allow tending them the photos the only way to get it. It gets show them. What you got? Honestly, I into walking up and down the three with my like, you know, how like you'll get a rest of euro, avoid the internet completely just get back to the days of door to door marketing, you know, go to the bar. You have a photo album about here's. Yeah. You can do a few years difference. Go look how much I've grown like. I do remember the early days of internet hookup app culture. I started observing more guys that you were just making flirting with or making friendly conversation at a bar, and they would lean into you and be like soup or your top bottom. And that's a question that I usually would get asked in the past. But it seemed like it was a sign of changing times where people felt brave enough to ask people very personal questions upon meeting each other. And it was not like it was like almost if somebody ask you the first date like, what's your income and social security number. You know what I'm saying? Like, it's weird. All this weird personal stuff being suddenly up for grabs. And so part of me feels very bad for people who are sort of like just developing their sexuality coming to their age, and you're relatively young person. Yeah. A ripe twenty six. Yeah. And so for you, you're like you're coming of age at a time where like privacy and and sexualities battleground again. Yeah, I think like. The period of face. Look, I grew up in was one where like, my parents and aunts and stuff for like, an I know this woman who her bosses saw her drinking too much on Facebook. And then they fired her. So you need to be really careful. And so. Very careful at sixteen. But my mother was an idiot took her maybe to like the tenth time. I was like vomiting in the bathroom for her to realize that I just wasn't developing summit bug every weekend like. Bitch drinker. Talking to people who have workplace policies in terms of sick leave. Now, a lot of work places are assuming you're up to no good. When you take a sick leave policy to treat. Everybody the same. And it's not like you have to justify whether you're having a sick leave or not. But I always feel like I think you get more. You know, get more kindness from your employer when you do tell them, you're. Legitimate sick as opposed to you're like, yeah. I just got drunk. I'm hung over. I don't feel like coming in. And you know. Things like you're basically trying to create a goodwill relationship with your employer, and we need to create space for people to be hung over or not feel like going in mental day off of work or like meditation rooms in offices. Those are those are discussing also what you don't like meditation rooms will corporate environments because they they're always in a room that has no windows somewhere borrowed in the office. And there's always like a really old couch on the seventies. Like may have come seines on it. Like, sure sure most meditation rooms are just masturbation show one hundred percent, and there's like one, you know, framed picture, like, scenic, whatever, I don't know. Make you feel you're outdoors. You have to clear your mind. Yeah. So I feel like the meditation room is the is the solution to like coming to our hangover. They are you serious about this. Because I usually like when I worked in publishing I remember one. Oh worker who low his life to go use the bathroom. And and we all were like he was himself and my dad into in the bathroom and not as desk. That's why I was saying I was like I don't care what he's doing on the bathroom coming out. So yeah, it's not poop or pee. It's going to be Jisr or whatever. But it's like, it's not of our business. You know, it maybe he knew that to get through the work day. Like that makes them a more productive employees. Yeah. Productive employees was one of sales people. They add maybe business JR. He's always getting ready for the next sale. I gotta get this one out. So you're born again virgin. Yeah. Yeah. That's fun gun. Virgin, mama. It's crazy. I mean, all this talk of Greider and scrap. I haven't even used one of those apps and like almost a year. Yeah. I'm a proud Gemini sister. So last season like. A close friend had gathered a few acquaintances for a little party, not a capital T. But there are things going on. And I got a Fisher from a good ole DP really just split me Fisher. Yeah. Nelson for your playing the people DP stands for double penetration. Media misses. They're very large same time. Yeah. And the. Getting devil penetrated the Dick's too thick. But they have to be kinda long, right? Right. Yeah. Yeah. Because you have the way you space. It our kids eight to that threshold. Yeah. Wide open reading, and you know, I didn't even notice the time. Maybe the time I was like other feels a little weird, but like, you know, your goal drunk or in the moment, you're having fun. And then like the next day. It was like oh my God. What did these men do to me, and it took forever for this thing to heal? So I finally went to doctor and through that found out that I have a digestive autoimmune condition that was prevented from healing because my but so stressed. Oh, I'm like do zanex Serena's like and it just chill your butthole was stressed out. Yeah. That's why. That's why wouldn't that's both. Yeah. Yeah. So. I have this condition all sort of colitis, and that's just like inflammation of your intestine. But for me in particular, I've been blessed. So it focuses right on us. But you know, with lots of different like, I took these like Medicated Douches, and the funny thing I did try it being which doctor I try to make my own. Educated deuce. Yeah. Well, so what could go wrong? No doubt. They it's all natural organic us like. Coconut oil tea, tree oil, lavender oil up your bunghole. Yeah. Yeah. They'll be diluted that quite a bit. Yeah. It was looted, but with a central wiles, you how super careful you should only get once thought say that you're allowed to use them internally because otherwise the FDA has some wiggle room that like you don't have to say there things and they're not. But if it says, not for internal use, you know, that there's some shit in their fears are all like, you know, oil some plants and stuff like you should be able to ingest them. And so you were telling me that you've got both talks butthole. Yeah. Yeah. My first time getting talks wrinkles around this victory. Yeah. I just wanted to really pretty for from. So. Yeah. So the talk shop using a relaxes the muscles. They were like, okay. It's not healing. Let's try this vote hawks and it actually worked like a few weeks later. The Fisher was gone. But then the problem was like, the fishers gone and even doing these dishes and everything so it's not inflamed. But you're still like constantly clench literally in constantly and so right now, you're so clenched right now. Yeah, you have relaxed. I yeah, I've tried meditation. Acupuncture told me that it was twitching. Twitchy. I. Yeah. Yeah. Like that. And so when you were talking, and as it starts twitching again. Yeah. Like, here's me knows. I'm talking about it. So it's your top. Yeah. Name. No now, like my thing is just like, I mean, they're really inter- fraud edge or back alley blowjobs. It's it's the new luck. Literally alley. Oh, yeah. So particular alley I like the one by Berlin has dumpsters. And the lighting also Diesen too. So you can see the dick tube. But no one from the streets. We'll see you are you just meeting the guys on the street and take them back there. You pull him out of the club. You know? It's different. I will say the strangest thing that happened to me one was I was leaving Berlet, and I was in heels, and I was walking friends place and the sky comes up behind me. And he keeps on like. Hey, hey, and then like I've actually turned around. She like what the fuck, and he was kind of Q, and he was like like one of me off in this way. And I was like, you know, like, I'm here for the story. I'll do it. I hope you charge of money because otherwise a lot of girls on that corner. Get mad if you give it away for free. Get money out of that. I'm a pro though. Yeah. Oh that there that I know getting bad you're gonna get sliced the girls slice you. Yeah. Those sharp nails like they're really. Yeah. I mean, there's nothing else to slice the my about his already opened. Nova like it was wild tubers. Like, we he kept on like me Giacomo. He didn't want me to do anything else too. Yeah. But the thing is that like someone kept on coming down an alley. And as soon as someone will come Hugh make us go to different alley, and I'm like in heels and one point I was like, you know, he's not paying me. This isn't like funny. That's why you gotta get paid. Yeah. So like. Shia next time coin Tatas. Don't throw a no shea. You wanna get paid? You do what everyone actually empowered twenty six-year-old gliders like pretty soon. Everyone's going to be getting it in allays was thing. You know? It's like if you start shutting down off the internet people go back to the old fashioned, you know, the street ours. Nothing wrong with that. And so here for that door. Heydays of Chicago's Boyce town in the eighties and even the nineties the grocery store, the main grocery store there used to be a pace that was known for if you were shopping for groceries and eleven o'clock that you were interested in a very wholesome hookup. Oh, you're live on the south side. 'cause you go to the university of Chicago park. I don't know how far you are from Jackson park. That's a big cruising ground. African American men. I mean, I'll I am equal opportunity. Like, I mean right now my mouth is equal opportunity. I can't say. Yeah. I mean develop a micro Pena's feather soon. I think. Thank you. Goes be the only thing about fed. Malawi Madonna was as we always has a relationship with allow, but she also has a relationship with Portugal. She'd moved to Portugal, and I really one hundred percents. Sure why maybe because like all our legal there could she's been filming she's been stuff there. And also, filming things Morocco. So Portugal's just a hop jumping whatever flying away from over there. So she might be leaving. She he's adopted too many kids should Dopp any kids one Portugal. Nap them off the streets. And they still she wanted to film something in this palace there. And they said, yes, you can film on these days. I want to bring a horse into the palace, and they were just like no horses too heavy and the beams are old, and you can't do that. And I guess she got mad and now she's just like you guys begged me to come live here. And now, I'm leaving. According to the news. The reason Madonna is leaving Portugal because she can't ride her horse threw her palace. Just so ungrateful. Is it is it is it good for the horse to be able to Klopp Klopp through marble floors. I can see that being like, you know, a dream job for the horse like you live all your life and a bar and then one day in pain. Listen the horses needed soil. It's it's hard on those police that walk through the streets. They outfitted with special horseshoes to on the pavement. Yeah. It's not. It's not a pleasurable thing for the. Horse your nails right there walking on their fingernails. Clip club. Molly Shannon from Saturday night. Live star of the film soup. Is going gave for pay. She is the star shoes portraying Emily Dickinson, and the new film wildlife and wild nights with Emily the titles reference to Emily Dickinson's short poem while nights while night. And it shows, Molly, Shannon, and actress Dana Milan Melanie as older younger generations of Dickinson carrying on an illicit romance with her female lover through time who was married to her brother. Right. This is idea. Emily was there's a little Spencer who lived alone by herself was a reckless. But it was like no she was like she was out there. She was hoping the pavement trying to get her her her poems published and she was banging this hot chick. She can get familiar with the poems of Emily Dickenson. Yeah. Probably kind of somebody who was celebrated long after her death. So in her time, she never sort of saw the fame and fortune as someone like Elliot, for example, another American I think. Rosters. Yeah. Yeah. But what's really cool? Emily Dickinson's poetry is that it fits beautifully with the meter of the song super Cala fragile stick ex-pilot ocean overly things. So this is just a random poem. It's called taste a liquor. Never. Brewed family Dickinson. I taste liquor. Never. Brewed from tankards scoop in Pearl not all the Frankfurt berries yield such an alcohol and neighboring of Eram I and Deborah she of do really through the endless summer days from end of molten blue. And so, and so I'm really Dickinson's poetry was celebrated and still celebrated because of her imagination our ability to see a world that was far beyond her own experience. And that was what a true artist. Does it creates a world that they don't necessarily see or even people know it exists? But once they discover it bore you glad they did. So I actually think you know, seeing Molly Shannon, finally unleash her. Inner lesbian poet is going to be a lot of fun. It looks like a great film to watch super excited. Definitely going to check it out when it comes to town. And also news a wealthy the Chicago's dropped all charges against Jesse smollet. And now that'd be I is is getting in on the on the cluster fuck while they wanted I guess they wanna understand why the charges were dropped. So the charges were dropped. He's. He gave up he forfeited his bond of ten thousand dollars, and he has to do some kind of community service. Right. He still has maintaining his innocence. He's like story that I told them the very beginning of the story. That's there. I don't know. Exactly what that story was because I haven't really seen it, right? Or we know the Mueller investigation than we know about Justice mullets case. But it certainly, you know, the mayor mayor Rahm Emanuel, the police captain they've all chimed in and being like what the heck is going on here. You know? And some people are really outrage, you really have I want people who are really outrageous to really look at themselves and to think about the Chicago police department, and the brutality that they have done to certain people and ask yourself. Why are you not outraged up why do except police brutality? But this Justice small who may or may not have invented a hate crime. Why are you so outrageous about that mayor Rahm Emanuel is certainly being very loud in this in this on this case? Considering he has been caught covering up the delaying the release of liquid McDonald's murders by the in the hands of Chicago police in order to be reelected as mayor, and he's still continues to run humnan square, which is a legal secret jail where the police dole Accu Honey that's where they put you. If I ever did appear. You've lab if these. Funds like they threw in square on t. Scalding if I were wrong, Emmanuel, I just keep my mouth shut take my Uber money because I think he's got stocking to get. Get outta town Honey because nobody likes you. Nobody likes Rahm Emanuel. And it's a telling to the mayor how disliked he is that both front running mirrow candidates, Lori Lightfoot, and it's not gonna win winkle plus twenty they're both distancing themselves from the existing mayor. They're both like less than roaming. I even less and everyone's like the way they are tarnishing. Each other running attack ads is like, you know, Louis Lightfoot was involved with rum Amanullah, blah, blah, blah. So so part of it is like he's very disliked mayor. He's a very unpopular, and you know, they can investigate you to would you like to get him estimated because that can happen literally dipping my teabag and my team right now. And it's called. Just say, I would if you Kilty of crime, you keep your mouth shut if it's especially if the same crime, which is faking ship still it's going to be really interesting. I see people I will never watch any program that he's ever again inch. It's like, you know after Justice. Exactly. And part of me is just like if he if he did make this up. I'm sure that there's some kind of mental health issue there. And it's just like, you know, a little bit of kindness goes a long way world people like speculating that he made it out to get like a pay raise or something on the show. He listened that. If that's his bona vision does it seem like it's a very logical wait now. But I mean, I don't know for me like what I hate is like anyone who is going to discredit. You know, the many LGBTQ people out there who are survivors and victims of all. Yeah. I hope it doesn't make anyone skeptical of anyone else with us. And he is famous, you know, but there's also another case that happened in. Michigan Jackson, Mississippi are Jackson Michigan. There was an LGBT activist who burn down their house in a hate crime allow you know, they burnt down themselves. We're caught five of their pets died, you know, but because we're not a famous celebrity those there's not the outrage over that. You know, that's what I'm more outrage that you murder your own pets for that kind of like Munchhausen's sympathize sympathy or something I don't know for those out there for millions with these kind of state of mines and the armchair psychologist. What does the term called when you fake crime in order to get sympathy for it? Somebody was actually telling me on Twitter, that's not Munchausen. But there is a new show on Hulu about Mancha houses. It's a really fascinating disease because it's like, it's the parent lunch. Charles is year. Faking illness dinner to get sympathy. Right. Yeah. And munchausen. My proxy is you're thinking child's illness. Or you're making your kid intentionally sick? To get sympathy for yourself my poor kids. So. So you know, when young people use the term gas lighting that you're driven. They usually saying because you're like you're really trying to say you're two faced that. You're not saying what you really mean. One. Well, I'm not saying used Pacific, but I do notice a lot of young people on social media use the term guests lighting incorrectly. When they're really wanted to say insincere or manipulative gas lining is intentionally driving someone else mad by pretending. There's not a problem that's happening. Which is what the Republican party does. And certainly not the case. Speaking of going insane. I was going inserting earlier today, and I have to tell you the story because you know, in terms of why we do this podcast and who inspires us. There's there's a there's a there's a pantheon of gods out there that inspire us to do this podcast and surly like someone like rupaul is certainly one among them earth a kit, the great, Carl Sagan and mister Rogers inspires me. And Mark to be our best to to create spaces where people can talk about their feelings. Then tell their stories and be heard and understood I saw hope you Vida feel like a little bit. You know heard and understood I think when I forgot to mention earlier is I'm really in the market right now for man with like fingers that are five to six inches long. This very particular Muslim enough to be massaged and my fingers are just too short. So using the podcast your podcast appear as as a way to as a Craigslist ad base. Yeah. It's for medical purposes. Yeah. The doctors just prescribe that too late for signing finger helping hand just gonna care it that dildo. I just think person's touch would really the healing process absence bath, the I do those often, they're amazing. So for since the documentary won't you be my neighbor on the life of Mr. Rogers and his legacy came out, Mark Nye and our friends in media. We have a couple. Of close friends went to see it together. And we were all just really moved, and touch, and it was a really interesting to me, how some of my friends in journalism or entertainment also share that common bond with me, and Mark how we were influenced and inspired by the great, Mr. Rogers and real treat to discover that officer Clemens Francois Scarborough Clemens in real life is openly gay unapologetically sassy gay black man diva called himself diva man, and we just fell in love with Francois and the documentary, and so I quickly on the internet and friend requested him on Facebook, not expecting anything of it and responded and through the past year, I've sort of grown and developed a little bit of a friendship online with Francois Scarborough Clemens, and I've been begging him, please come on a podcast dying. Talk about your life with you because I just feel like the duck vintages can scratch surface those so much more to tell so much. So we finally got to talk to France while today, and Mark, and I were just like we got the time wrong. We got the time zone confused, and we're just in a hurry. And we started doing the podcast, and we had prince wants us to church at the end of the podcast, Mark. And I were just like teary eye, and so moved by his story, and I can't wait to show that with you guys, and it would be up by now, however in the process of setting up, the new computer, some of our whole hardware is malfunctioning and we've developed the all the audio has a little. Like spark like a ticket. And so I was just like literally so depressed. Imagine if like, the the one the interview of your lifetime that you wanted to get and it just went horribly wrong. And especially afterwards that we had like had such an amazing conversation with them. So I called a couple of friends of mine who are in audio engineering and the process of looking at that to see what they can do if you guys can afford to make donation to help cover our costs of addressing this technical issue, which comes and goes because the audio introverts that we're currently using to allow us to replace that police go to go fund me dot com slash feast, fund, computer and make a one time donation because it is an extraordinary interview that I'm dying to get to you guys. And I hope that one way or another. We're going to get it to you guys. I just wanted to get the best audio quality possible for you guys in for prosperity sake. Therapies and to me. I just to say that it was great for me to be able to do the frustrated angry. It's to Rogers routine like why people pay attention. I said it's like. Kick out of that. That was good because I imagine that Mr. Rogers a little bit more sassy a little bit more down to earth than he led on television handsome. Rough language. Let's just say rough language. He said some things I didn't expect to come out of his mouth. He got he took us determine. He did not hold back. And what for this? This is. This is the piece of fun interview of the year. It's coming people and coming he. Talk to us about him coming out to Fred Rogers, while in the shadow of the stonewall riots, and Fred Rogers and his infinite wisdom was like continent really difficult situation because he had this really important children's show any of a man of friend who cared deeply about coming out as gay to him. And and not sure what to do with it. So he said, I love you, exactly. Just the way you are. But this is something we need to keep quiet about if you are to be on the show because of the world that we live in the moment, we cannot have you be openly gay, and that means you can't go to gay bars you need to be on the down. And that's that's a painful difficult story. And it just gives me a profound sense of gratitude to the wisdom of these individuals like Mr. Rogers and France while. Clements that were able to navigate such a difficult. So it's dangerous environment at that time. And that me and Mark and everybody who's benefited from the show mister Rogers neighborhood had that in our childhood. So we could be Mr. Rogers for other people and that to me it's just like, well, I can't wait to share that with the is. It'll be out soon. Vita sunda. Mommy. Love when you sail you like how your name? Yeah. A little flair. Yeah. Little SaaS own. I thought this monotone science, Vida Santa me. Some become. The ship that sank. Down with all the seamen alleyway coming on the podcast. You know, you I wanna remind folks we can't do this podcast without your support. So if you can't make a donation to go fund me dot com slash feast of fund computer or become a plus member at fun dot com slash plus. We also have a new patriarch. You guys are asking for it will now it's there. It's paycheck dot com slash feast fund, where we unlock our vault of treasures of goodies. And we have a lotta clips there of upcoming cookie. Winter I Queen episodes. You can see those before anybody else does at patriot dot com slash feast of full. Fun, Vida working people. Find you on the Interweb lawyers. They can follow me on and Ceram at vaj out with vita and Facebook Vitas, phantom Amita wall, right? It's veg VG AG is. No, it's great giant. Yeah. Like vagina JJ always your Vagit is like toilet. All your. Exactly always healthy diet as a balance. But salinity. Yes, thank you so much for listening. Everybody.
A Poem for How Friendship Endures
"My Name Is Padre. Go Touma and I'm an Irish poet and poetry calls me to speak. It allowed sometimes have been on a train and I have been reading poetry and I've whispered it myself. I somehow need to feel the air. The back of my throat to fill my vocal chords constrict in order to make the primary Number One. Three eight three of Emily Dickinson's poems. In Johnson's arrangements. Long years apart can make no breach. A second cannot feel. The absence of the witch does not invalidate the spell the embers of thousand years on covered by the hand that followed them when they were fire with stir and understand few years. Go I have been reaching some things but Emily Dickinson and because there are no particular little book severity Dickinson decided that I'd read all seven hundred. Seventy five points of hers and take a Somali Safari through it. A safari is a phrase that John Donahue you see us when he spoke about philosophy to take safari through philosophy. And I thought I'd steal that to take safari through the work of Emerson an NSF. Our you hope to see some strange things and come out alive. And that's what I thought I'd try to do with her. She speaks about the hand. Fondled them when they were fire? And so you see and that that she's seeing that you don't tend to think of funneling fire you think perhaps of warming your hands Bhai Fire but fondling. It's usually burnt by fire so I think she understands that. Friendship can burn. She isn't an idealist and the simplicity of friendships. Ceo US all lovely and easy. I think she's saying that. We farms all these burning things but yet we keep on coming back to those kinds of friendship that Megyn across an difficult encounters can be some of the ones that are the ones that lasts the longest even after thousand years. There's some people where when I've met them. We've met each other and caught each other in a glance where almost accidentally both of our souls felt like they're communicating through the ice and we've seen each other untouched. Well Hello Look at WHO? We are now and that for me lasts decades. There's people that I know. I barely know but that we have seen each other in some moment. And I'm always curious to pick off with them. Jonah Donahue has a lovely line in his book on 'em Harare where he speaks about as the measure from the book of Genesis about the human beings being made from clay and John says that sometimes you meet somebody and it's as if millions of years ago before the silence of nature broke his heart clay and your clay site by site. I think it's a lovely idea to take this metaphor that we are made from clay. And that's sometimes there's elemental recognition when you meet somebody There's one more thing to say about this. That I think is really interesting is the embers of thousand years covered by the hand that Fontham when they were fired with stir and understand. It's just that last word understand that to my mind almost implies that there has been the possibility of misunderstanding or some kind of neglect or something that was on understandable between people who love each other who are connected. And that's what sometimes makes me think that this is a promise rather than a reflection that she's thinking about the future rather than thinking about the past and that's part of the glory of Dickson is her playing between present past and future and I think of friendships. That have had long periods of misunderstanding. And sometimes we know that at the beginning that can be great intensity and friendships may be your twenty and then people might begin to pair off or somebody moves away. Somebody doesn't like their decision. And you think are strongly connected but this decision has come between us and I love what she's saying is that there are certain spells certain embers that with time and the future. We're recollect their earliest original fire Number one three three of Emily Dickinson's poems. In Johnson's arrangements. Long years apart can make no breach. A second cannot feel the absence of the which does not invalidate the spell the embers of a thousand years on covered by the hand that followed them when they were fire with stir and understand one. Three eight three comes from the poems of Emily. Dickenson edited by Thomas H Johnson. Thank you Harvard. University press who published the book and gave US permission to use emily's comb. Read it on our website at on being dot org poetry. Unbound is Tonia Lou. Chris Cagle Kristen Lynn. Aaron Call Soko. Siri Grassley Eddie Gonzalez. And Me Lily Percy. Our music is composed and provided by. Gotham chicken. And this podcast is produced by on being studios which is located on Dakota land. We also produce other podcast. You might enjoy like on being with Tippett becoming wise and this movie changed me. Find those wherever you like to listen or visit us at on being dot org to find out more to this podcast is produced by studios in Minneapolis Man.
A Way to Garden with Margaret Roach October 21, 2019 Marta McDowell on Emily Dickinsons Gardening Life
"From awaited Gordon Dot Com and Robin Hood Radio Dot Com. This is a way to garden with Margaret Roach. Your weekly invitation to dig in and Grow Emily Dickinson was a great poet yes but she was also an accomplished Gardner and a D Robert that's when people got interested in editing them and putting them out so in the intro of the new book you say that most of us would books that were all in her cherry chest when she died that's when you know after her death when these were discussed get not just her history but a slice of horticultural history plus a charming Palette of plants for Poets Garden more in a moment but first a long time and so tim repress said you know would you like to bring it out again and I thought wow I get a second chance others with one hundred percents organic and non GMO vegetable herb and flower seeds high mowing seeds dot com front slash away to garden author. Marta in thirty and I think she lived till eighteen eighty six and but no books of her poems were published until after her death is that correct fix it change it and especially add color you know add a lot in terms of illustrations to support it yeah I guess so. For people who maybe don't know the time period of Emily's life she was born and lived in Amherst Massachusetts and born in Eighteen McDowell a gardener and landscape designer contemporary New Jersey has a particular passion for digging into noted Authors and their gardens and has written books on think this was a topic that you had covered in two thousand and five in your book called Emily Dickinson's Gardens and and the publisher it's true so only about a dozen of her poems came out during her lifetime and they were you know sort of here in their news tapers one of them appeared in book anonymously and sh it's not known whether she ever really approved of those message away to garden with Margaret Roach made possible from time owing organic seeds the first independently owned farm-based seed company proudly serving organic gardeners farmers and homestead in dot com. We'll have a book giveaway of course in the book is beautiful I've been enjoying it are you happy with it I am I think it really came out nicely yeah did tricks potter Laura Ingalls Wilder and now a fully revised version of her popular one on Emily Dickinson so I should say that with the transcript of the show in a way to go I was actually showing it to a friend today and she was fascinated. She didn't know anything about Emily Asa Gardner so yeah why will you know we think of Emily Dickenson we'll think of that famous to Guar- type image it's a sixteen year old emily sort of staring out at us and we I have heard stories of her is kind of hermit like almost reclusive I don't know but who is she really most of all do you think having done while this mhm but she did save all of her paw she wrote something like eighteen hundred of them and bound a lot of them in these hand sewn research and written this book she's certainly a gifted writer for maybe entree was the fact that she was you do it again or what was the what was the reason that it cuts coming out now in a new version that is the way it happened yeah original books been out of print for really uh-huh and this was kind of my you know it was the way I came into writing so for me to be able to you know and I was a gardener and it was like a little you know lightbulb yes off you know everything was illuminated yes and you know that's where this started to say let me find out what she knew and what she grew and how that and and then you know I just by chance visited the museum one day because in the nineties and found out she was a gardener you know in fact when I studied Emily Dickenson in school I kind of you know a lot of the problems I would go you know like what yeah has I'm from the fields you know and wall quite at home with the Dandelions make but sorry figure in a drawing room formed some of her poems and that was really a way into her poetry for me yes I love there's a quote in the book I think it's from a letter she wrote to someone and she loses right so one person met Emily Dickinson he eventually edited her poems his name was Thomas Wentworth hit and so he's in the drawing room at their house and she comes in and presents him with two dailies and says the take more at home in nature the girl was yeah she was although she was also kind of a no like she would adopt these sir my introduction and he later wrote his wife that night and said I've never been so exhausted by a conversation with anyone and there's a new England name for you and he you know they had corresponded and he finally went and met her in amherst right right and she made besides the the hand sewn together books of poems that were found after her death she pressed flat as well didn't she yes so herbarium right it's not something that most of us nowadays think about creating the Victorian era women's areas of study in vocation were more limited but botany was kind of considered okay right yes it was considered something just very fitting for females it it was something beautiful the flowers were right right so she wasn't really totally retiring she she had presents for sure not uh-huh but in her day it was a really popular hobby exactly what to compare it to you know like how all of a sudden now oh she was connected with a lot of people who correspondence yeah oh so sometimes I think she was like the lady Gaga of the nineteenth century so back everybody's making pickles yes right in her day everybody was making their herbarium you know she writes to her friends with little league we know that she continued to keep specimens well into adulthood but she certainly had the sixty plus page hours and made herbarium her Beria Herbarium whatever she made folks have pressed flowers well labeled and identified and was something that could be enjoyed out in nature so it was helpful and you know you kind of couldn't get in trouble with flowers right even if you dissect them it was some flowers and you know have you made her barium yet and she was very enthusiastic about it's not clear for how long album that is just jammed with plants and some of the pages have included some of them they're really quite beautiful there are soon how often does that happen in life or in books especially in life yeah for some grazing and haying but also neighbors talked about it just being full bees and butterflies and talks kind of abandoned in later life she doesn't really use the scientific names but she was doing it then so you say she was doing it with both wildflower things that are so fantastic and yet nobody standstill long enough to notice them let alone set them to poetry and you know I I loved about her to stick in their own way you know this was part of her material culture right so she's taking these flowers shoes looking at them clearly agnes glass because she's counting the number of flower parts the number of pistols and statements she's writing out the botanical Latin which the Flower Garden was it was that particular passionate yet yes the Flower Garden and she also writes a lot about the orchard but the Dickens so much about pollinators and birds and things yeah yeah I li- I mean we mentioned that she you know she was a real nature person and you know the talks about them as pick me Sarath gone straight you know like some angel has fallen to Earth Yeah and it's you know it's and kind of mini phare lots of vegetables there was livestock and then this big meadow which you know would have been used so you have quotes in the book she says I was always attached to mud she was always in it right and and divulge right you know it's like I it would have been so interesting to be the correspondent with her so lillies definitely and what she writes back to this friend is long been a lunatic on bulbs lunacy on any theme is better is in place was big right it was three acres on one side of the street and almost a ten acre meadow on the others included allied and then there's that one that you just said bird reminds me of the one a bird came down the walk a bird it's like her language really clutches your heart right so in that flower garden you know kind of and she she got from a friend sent her lilies this would be as if you know you sent me a package of lilies down the walk he did not know I saw he bit an angle worm in halves an eighth fellow raw she's observing these little mm Stanford I think it was called the homestead or whatever it was the it was more going on than just what she was gardening or interested in her passion was there's and with garden plant right that also gives lots of clues as to what was growing then right and the family place in Amherst it was kind of a home Louis yeah absolutely and you know she'll take something ferry you know common to all of us okay rose and she saw she in one section of the book for instance you know in some of them are things that I think we're in for a while when I began gardening decades ago in roses lots and lots of rose and she called herself daisies sometime she kind of used that as a stand in for herself and I think you know you couldn't as easily go to I don't know the grocery store the florist and get fresh flowers so for the win what were the sort of it plants that Gardner of her day would have craved or sought after I mean were there things that you are aware that were the you know we have them now then have had a resurgence again so things that but here they were for instance Gomphrena you know what do they do I can't remember what the the low lower Browning sh absolutely loved George Eliot talks about reading Jane austen and Okay Yeah and and you know many of her poems start with a line you know hope is the thing with feathers the famous one and I heard a fly buzz when I died oh but W- of our own but what were some of the ones that she would have wanted that would have been triumphs to acquire to grow certainly lose would've inconspicuous little flower although butterflies like it because the fragrance is very intense must be have a lot of nectar in it Tur- you'd WanNa have dried arrangements and so things like this globe amaranth you could drive from the summer and then it could adorn your them and they'll retain their color I think in those days 'cause I found several examples of dried flowers in the herbarium yeah yeah yeah yeah right I mean yeah I turn it absolutely and I think there were also the kind of Garden of Eden kind of connection you know so she was getting a lot of influences from different places but she also really knew her Shakespeare and the Bible and so she often surly Elizabeth Dickinson Emily Norcross Dickinson fix you know were certainly around and she certainly uses the terms and terms amherst Massachusetts that surprise to me was she daring and tells about her figs first of all how in the world did she do that well we're actually her so you know I don't give a fig for howdy lind singer yeah but her mother cultivated them they were in a position near the our house in the winter so some of the things we're very practical some of the things are kind of unusual annuals that are this big barnes so it must have been a sheltered place but whether they cover them which you certainly do down here in New Jersey for things that you wouldn't wouldn't necessarily find nowadays right and was there symbolism in some of these for her I mean you're saying these everlasting Gomphrena I mean was she certainly writes about eternity immortality right grown for fragrance like miniature net it's really hard to find it you can you can buy the seed but it was really a very slim the she was very well read certainly a lot of contemporary literature contemporary for her she loved Elizabeth Barrett something's also had that twist of them as well so I if if if we yeah what were some of the what do you imagine would be some of the Amish to her inspired by her what would be the we plant a lot of things well we try to plan only things actually but she mentioned okay so in the spring mothers how okay I don't know if we can really get Emily Dickinson her mother her mother's name was also emily out so it wasn't who again roses hope you don't have deer Dally is Chris fans ripe figs and even bring them down to the newspaper office because local newspapers would report on this wow it's kind of wonderful because other lilies and roses you said but what are some of the other things that would be in a garden today at the Dickinson Museum yeah so we're all still we're all still wrestling with the same the same thing yes and I have to confess that I am basically think failure yeah does she wrote about lilacs you know if you just WanNa try some shrubs dues lilacs too Dell's crocus tulips if you don't have deer right again you know Daisies Fox gloves married which was also a fairly common practice for the Winter Hi Tony No but I know that her mother would have baskets a- I was yeah I think lots of annuals lots of perennials to I was startled to see some of the summer annuals that you include talks about her garden as Eden or you know her place as you places paradise and so I think some it's various kinds of violets and lots of primroses bulbs and bulbs snowdrop staffers here we are you know this many years later and one of the popular topics that people like to ask each other about who
Unraveling the Mystery of the Winchester House
"On Apple TV. Plus I'm Emily Dickinson one purpose is to become a world works we'll figure out how to take over I am this is because everyone always questioned me about it and so now I say my name like a question and so trying to say my name I still have a weird Korean inflection at the best year so today we have yet another kind of vic that we're doing for this episode because we're talking about the winchester mystery they love Scooby Doo we all it's it's been a long time since I've seen the winchester mystery house so this is modern -Ly a tourist I have never been in desperately wants to go so badly so we need to when you're excited about that one too yes I'll have to take and a Friday the thirteenth flashlight tour be fun right it was also ends the US Department of Commerce has given it the certified haunted label levels I guess one of the one of my friends was desert on later all scary stuff all the time I promise I won't interest to rebuild at its peak it had an estimated and we'll get into why estimated known as one of the most haunted houses in the United States it was commissioned by Sarah Winchester who that in two thousand nineteen that's equivalent to twenty six thousand dollars a day historically how did we get this spectacle of a supposedly on Apple TV. Plus I'm Emily Dickinson what are they so afraid they're scared that teaches how the world works we'll figure out how to take over apple TV APP to start watching now subscription required as with our female serial killers episode throughout history of why it exists and Sarah one chester was a very private person the guys at the Winchester House are quick to point that out themselves so this is probably not the case for instance a lot of people like to point ah those were actually kind of common back then seances so she built the house to confuse ghost or that she built it as a hobby and hey you know what never mind forget that hallway let's go over here but okay comfortably in a well off family she attended some of the best schools in the area and learn to four different Dan William got to work at wells but the family business the Winchester Repeating Arms Company Yeah Oh yeah four years into their marriage in eighteen sixty six Sarah gave birth to a never the same meanwhile the gun that won the West Aka to his son William himself died in eighteen eighty one from tuberculosis leaving million dollars or five hundred million dollars in today's money this story the museum did not Provide Comfort but instead added to Sarah's turmoil they were behind the death of her husband and child according to this medium and in this story and the medium advised Sarah to go out west and build a house large enough for all the spirits war and we're looking for ways to communicate with them Vermont want folks to move out there so maybe the medium was working for Sarah Winchester she didn't need to be told twice and she made her way out West to San Francisco California land which grew into one hundred sixty acres and began building on it she would continue building house over the years the project ballooned growing bigger and bigger her original intent she called it not Avila she paid her workers well and often purchased twenty four seven allegedly only stopped when Sarah died and left so abruptly story it is a good story she insisted that only read would be used even though she the house also featured some technological rarities of that time like indoor plumbing art spreading about the house and its owners locals and workers on the project believed it to be haunted good spirits some belief our communications with these good spirits were the impetus behind dance with the winchester widow and we have to remember to at this time any woman short life even these days few things are scarier than an historian Jannine Bo him apologies mispronouncing your name argues head but books written in the nineteen sixties after the tourist attraction had been open for she had with her husband William Building Their house in new haven but let's talk about some didn't passages windows in the floors upside down pillars ridiculously shallow cupboard it's nicknamed the mother-in-law sweet seems odd l. let me go see those two are inscribed with quotes from Shakespeare why'd UNCLASPING THE MHM we'll get back to you the house is also rife with iterations of the number house because there's evidence thirteen hooks thirteen panels on the ceiling thirteen decorative spiderweb patterns appear throughout the House as well which at the time said this has more to do with Sarah's arthritis and less to do with bamboozling spirits I got to see this place Mantha there's a section of the House referred to as the Hall of fires nights she slept in a different bed and took secret passageway to as not to be followed some the project was close to completion and yet another day puts forward that Sarah was actually a member of a mystic when it moved in to the house and remained there for fifteen years at the time of Sarah's earns sixty rooms which is actually an estimate forty seven series thirteen bathrooms six kitchens three piece of Queen Anne Revival Architecture while she left most of her belongings who auctioned off most of it one story goes that it took six months to get all the furniture Brown for one hundred and thirty five thousand dollars who originally planned to build one of America's first roller coasters opened up stairs gardens calling the winchester park and a few years later the browns purchased the house outright mutation instead he left feeling even more confused and dubbed it the Mystery House Dan of course in June nineteen forty-five John Brown dies hard and the gardens were close to make way for century theaters and the Winchester Wax Museum open throughout the eighties and nineties. The property was updated in new tours added in Nineteen ninety-six it was S. foreman sewing machine a couch and some paintings forty forty go say that for a month don't you yeah I don't think they'd let me viewed for seventy two hours house was closed to tourists for a jam packed filming difficult at the only way you can deal with your grief is by feeling that they are still with you in some way early we have an interest but this mystery house which is so fascinating because and tried to get to the bottom of her motivations what was she really thinking we've films have started with the furniture is being sold and being something yeah just the interest we have with these awesome that's fantastic and it is beautiful I mean looking outside looks beautiful and I can just like imagine her living we all love to sleep great and plus a free adjustable base with your qualifying purchase you can save up to six hundred dollars on the bed of so what's her name podcast with hosts Olivia in Katie talk about fascinating women you may a comical look at women in history the superfund if you get to listen to those too so shut out to you allow send it our way and for for our listeners. You're celebrating Halloween you were a panda. You're
"KCRW sponsors include FOX searchlight presenting the favourite nominated for three Screen Actors Guild awards and fourteen critics choice awards including best picture awards eligible in all categories. This is now. Intersection between the quiet tender moments of night and the act of writing and reading poetry. It's a space where one can capture fleeting with s- from the darkness, and then send them off for others to hold like fireflies ajar homes from the night are like fragments of dreams forgotten upon waking reminders of things lost to us in the day. I had started writing poems that occupied the night in a kind of personal and intimate way. And as always when I'm writing may own poems. I kind of think about the literary history that a might be joining or trying to join in some way in my own work. So to think about how other poets had written about the night. I turned to people I knew well like Emily Dickinson. She describes following what is called a will the west and the idea of following this light that appears in the swamp. And then they turn to someone like the who's not first and foremost known for his poetry. But has what I think of is very poetic journals and discovered that there was this whole chunk of writing in the American nineteenth century about the night. There's one Don who is reluctant mentioned because he kind of gets hijacks but tells account skis, I'm a huge fan of his he works for the majority of his life. You know, any ROY famously about jobs he did. And he ROY many many times about staying the night and typing on a tight rights Aaron listening to the radio and and drinking and writing away. And it just something I'm on. I have quite a hard living. The had the the spirit is definitely something. I react to two. So know, he's a great night. It was known that Dickinson suffered an eye condition. And. One of the particulars of the condition was that it made it painful for her to be outside in the sunlight Dickinson loved to garden and began gardening at night. So there's this great quote by scholar. Judith far beginning of Emily Dickenson, her neighbors, recalled glimpsing awake figure slightly illuminated by lantern light kneeling in the darkness above her, Libya and sweet sultans. Richard broad skin. He wrote some really kind of fun interesting palms, and this this I really liked. It was the hours midnight, and libraries the and carried like dreaming child into the dog miss of these pages. When would you write the things that you are most defrayed to right or your most afraid of being overheard? And I just imagined probably invited by the idea of Dickinson writing at night that there would have been other people for whom the night became the place to write more poetry from the night in a moment. Support comes from the natural history museum presenting night of ideas on February first experience an all night marathon of discussion performances screenings and music highlights. Include a limited sound bath with John C of rose Alex summers and Paul corley, a vegan fashion show produced by the French lab panel discussions and many talks on the environment and future. Cities with US and French thought leaders tickets and information at NHA, m dot ORG. You're listening to knocked her. I'm vanessa. The poem happens at night when they are alone. The poem happens when she kneels in front of a going flower, the poem happens when her fingers reach into the garden dirt digging. Not unlike a ghost at daybreak to get back inside a grave because she is no longer afraid of death. The poem happens at night when he holds pieces of glowing would in his hand. And the poem is the going would the glowing flower the phosphorus wave let's and the weird globe of light over the swan, poet, Cecil e parks. Ryan night when I can I sometimes right? When an one year old is asleep in these on my shoulder. And I think the world becomes a lot. Smaller electric, light comes almost like a tiny beacon and the world is sort of evaporates would be on the. Poetry. It's someone communicate with you directly. And offering the notion of hope. Benign, a grunge ice way. But just in a like something in that humanity something that I've stumbled upon poet, Tom Harding. I think a poem because it's often condensed because it's often dense with language with imagery invites multiple rating. So a writ soms in recently whistles said. Poetry's ability to slow down time and capture something one specific thing very closely. And I think that's a really nice relationship for reader and poem to get into the reader repeatedly goes back to a poem to figure out what's going on. In this like studying as amazed the capture something from it. And. That's that's where I guess the night does come into it. Phil become a longer ability to slow time down and really focus on something. Maybe focus on a fool just one particular tool or feeling really bring into close scrutiny. So I imagine in a poem about the night responding to the night in some way engaging with the night that that reader has a chance to be immersed in that thinking about the night multiple times in many different ways that I think. Others on Russia's other ways of delivering information or experiences. Don't offer. I among the lean outs on the creek king city. Spying windows. London's along issue. By the sites of Soames still living the music of a light on. Breeding something that someone else's written potentially in the middle of the night. And then you read it in the nice like a kind of a quad transmission from one person to another. Feels very personal when that's something. I really relate to you. Punch which he read which is sort of, you know, the the voice in the head voices. Three. I am like that kind of quiet, quiet voice. Reading versus hearing. What exists that does? Not reach our ears stripped of auditory memory and context something so small and unadorned slips smoothly into the mind or heart of another. This Leonard Cohen Paul actually where he says are long to ROY Moore might be read by one like may on a night like this, and it's very personal personal expression of one person communicating to another that's very different to a lot of Persia to poach reading that's very different experience. And I think there's a whole different. Different element to to the reading was on a page and that feeling of. Reading people that you feel like you're on your way like thighs. Let's bake do to me people that you connect with done have to connect with the whole person. But just with a space that they're in something that communicate sometimes of books of poetry, and is just casually line one poem. It's almost like a bit of a an Esa or something read that and the night. I use the term night Poetics to think about what happens in the night that cannot happen in the day with a specific attention to those sensual relationships to the natural world that the night cultivates different ways of gathering information, hearing, touch, smell taste and results. I think in kind of unique poetry on the page. Found the loss. Radio outs. Amongst the forgotten things. It's inside empty with a smooth. Mahogany body intact. Carried it home. Kept beside went bit. Each night pressing too. It's cool cavity to hear the sound of pine trees blowing back and forth on the pulling black waves carrying me to sleep. Some nights would how like storm winds through them cave. Of the nights, wait to the class at across the flu. Swear at see some shape lights is a folks slip from its show into the shadows of the room. Certain messages are best saved and savored in the shadows. There is a certain solitude that comes with either. Being the only person awake at night. The only person in your home awake at night person out side in your yard at night. At least it feels like that. If you are that person that poet doing those things but solitude at night, I think does shade into loneliness. And I think it is because of that sense of perhaps being somewhere doing something while the rest of the world is doing this other thing, but there's something joyful about salted may be. That's the poet. In me. It's in those moments of tender solitude that the impermanent of things has a chance to blossom into consciousness, I asked the stars. Will you be my jewelry stars said follow us? The drew me. Deep into the disheveled spruce is to introduce me to loss. And then suddenly you're the through period in the night and things of slow down. And the big picture comes in temporary things the knowledge. You know that again, it is a cliche, but the the life is. It's beautiful, but it doesn't last and there are some one of the things about it. And this and a lot of wonderful things about it. But identity to focus into Giral that kind of the happy sadness that kind of sweetness to. The attornal Lawson in permanence, the things he's like, well, I wouldn't want to swap not feeding sense. He's like I wanna have I wanna have awareness. I think we've all like stumbled across past someone crying publicly during the day and had mixed feelings about it. You know, like wondered why they were crying and also perhaps registering the sheepish nece with which they they cry. And I just I wonder you know, if the night is the time to not only feel but express those emotions because you have a kind of privacy because you have a kind of cloak of night to make you feel less seen that is also kind of permission to to feel. What happens to our capacity to feel the distinct emotions evoked by solitude when solitude is scarce. I begin to think about the night as an environment. You know, in the way that like a wetland or a prairie is something. We would think of as endangered now begin to wonder if the night also could be considered endangered and just I think thinking about the night as a place where you know, only certain animals are active certain plants are blooming certain kinds of interactions with the natural world of possible. But others are are not. There was this whole chunk of writing in the American nineteenth century about the night that carried with it a kind of melancholy maybe more for me than for the people writing it because I knew that the kinds of nights they wrote in and that provoked them to write a we're going to be disrupted by the advent of electrical lighting things must be so radically different. Now too. To us when he read some of these rights, as you think about some of these people writing, you know, they really isn't that kind of pitch black solitude props that was even a hundred years ago, something that doesn't exist now in the world, I have anyway, I think definitely we're missing something. And I'm going to tell him how I lived in the wild. Iran at of electric city on autumn and camped outside sleeping by a stump. Who's rot coincided with my idea of discipline? Hundred years guy, the night was long. And there was nothing today. Think about someone like Joan class. He's a local he lived in the seventeen hundreds and he's from Thomson Hannie. He was a great rights. I imagine the world he was in on the length of night that he went through writing by candlelight and having the fools that he had, you know. It's just it's not even imaginable in some ways. Now, I feel like the poems about the night or the writing about the night that I encounter in people like Dickinson in Perot. It's almost like visiting natural history museum in like having this experience of something that you know, feels farther away than than I can kind of believe. And so I think about the nights that made it possible to think thoughts they did right away. They did as really unique to that time period and the nights we right about now or are different in many ways and not better not worse. But there is something really tangible for me in the language of their poems. That speaks to or communicates equality of night that is different from ours. There was a kind of. Delight can losing oneself in the night. But some of these writers communicate the idea of the ING truly alone in the night is no longer possible. In the way, it was then. Our nights are eliminated from within and without the eerie. Blue glow of information incessant accompanies us into the unknown and our solitude only to dissolve it. I think the marker of a good poem is the fact that it's made us feel something. And I think. Good poems about the night. Make us feel not only the power of the night as the natural environment. But perhaps also the powerful loss of that night. I feel like I read poems to kind of feel the risk that went into writing them. And in the homes about the night that I read from from the nineteenth century earlier. I have a sense that there is even on the part of the author's. What felt like a physical risk like a really stepping into the unknown because of the quality of night that I imagined they experienced. I recognized that this can be like a woeful kind of romanticism nation on my part. But I do I do feel like the stakes of stepping outside and being outside at night must have been very different for those writers and the relationships that they've formed with celestial bodies, or or the out of doors would have been somehow more fraught with with the kind of risk that I feel like is communicated in some of these writings. Poets have long captured and distilled the risks and pleasures of the night, the writer Robert McFarland collected some of his favorite phrases related to nature doom fire is sunset light, which has the appearance of apocalypse to it Shepard. Lamp describes the first star that rises after sunset and along the North Sea coast, the word blaze means to take salmon by striking them at night by torchlight with a three pronged spear acorn beach, bluebell buttercup catechin cow slip signet dandelions fern Hazel, Heather Heron as a thing or experience is lost often so two or the words used to describe it McFarland discovered that the latest edition of the Oxford junior dictionary. No longer contains many words relating to the natural world. The words themselves are dying out Cecil parks wrote a book of poems entitled Oneida it's another word that is no longer in use. I I saw the word Onate s- in euros journal as he transcribed a local farmers observations of him into the farmer observed that the row was out Onate s- more than Ralph WALDO Emerson and therefore the row in the farmers estimation looked older he had been sort of weathered at inexperienced in aged perhaps by the night. And so I mean, I love that word partially because they didn't know what it meant. But Onate s- means at nights, plural. And so I love the way it suggested an occurrence that would happen only at night or would describe you know, experiences over multiple nights. And it would it would be exclude whatever experience the word described would be exclusive to the night. I think the word went out of use because you know, experiences of the night started diminishing, and I sort of link the disappearance of the word to the disappearance of the nights it described. Without the words to recognize the fern in the past year. Perhaps my children will turn away from them leave them on scene, which is a way of allowing them to manage in the places of the faced flora and fauna in Oxford junior dictionary as McFarland points out or the new editions of our digital era. Attachment blog broadband bullet point celebrity chat, room, cutting pace, and voice mail. It is not hard to imagine the twenty first century child. Waking up in the night and padding with bare feet to her computer foregoing the darkness outside to search the bright internet with her fingertips. Newspaper is a book approach because it's like an the news foam his way to just the world is in media is in these isn't Twitter. It's something else a timely, and and you can go, and you can read about what people think about life. You know, they they might not be reacting necessarily to what's happening, right. This minute now. But that's okay about things of happened to humans right back to since we got things chronic owed, and it's the human rack events. So it's like. Yeah. It's like a think of it is luck runs parallel to news media. It's luck. From whites into the world. He and I kind of think it's it's more preferable with less stressful. I love that poetry as parallel new source reporting, not on the whims of politicians and financial markets. What on enticing enigmatic, natural wonders large and small Henry, David Thoreau, like Emily Dickinson, encountered, the willow, the wisp and found it newsworthy to say, the least on an expedition in the Maine woods one night while fellow travelers slept. He went intending to stoke awaiting campfire. And instead came across a piece of firewood that emitted a strange glow an elliptical ring of light. An investigation with his knife reveals a ring of sap under the bark all aglow along the blog whittle chips of which lit up the inside of my hand revealing the lines and wrinkles and appearing exactly like coals of fire. Raise to a white heat in folklore, a willow, the west business atmospheric light seen by travellers in the night, especially over swamps and marshes they're often attributed to ghosts fairies and spirits, and as such they're discounted but not by thorough. He wrote in this essay night in the moonlight. If I can show men that there is some beauty awake while they are asleep. If I add to the domains of poetry. Yeah. To think he thinks of the will of the west as belonging to the domain of poetry as something he can offer to the domain poetry and to the people who are usually asleep while it is happening. The Latin name for the willow, the whis is Ignace fatuous, meaning foolish light or fools fire. The willow the west both literally and metaphorically can be misleading light to follow in the darkness. But Emily Dickinson wrote better Ignace fatuous than no Aloom it all or better a foolish light than no light today. Science explains. The willow the wisp as a rising from the combustion of gas from decomposed organic matter, but the row might have questioned the value of that exploit nation. Science would have meant. Nothing to thorough when he found the will of the west he didn't he didn't want it. He didn't need it. It would not have taught him any more than he learned by holding that glowing log in his hands. This argument thorough saw value in magic and the state of unknowing both the domains of poetry and the night. The road says like scientists for the daytime impair phrasing here. But I think that's really important the daytime it's definitely telling FOX, and I guess that's total saw the world is really keen to box things up into being Rackham what? But I think the most key to things on black and white and as poetry reflects what women said he's Voss and contains multitudes the the idea that there's many different shades things shades of gray on that that is war poetry office. I find that poetry is the place to be unsure or the place to. Remain in kind of an attitude of questioning rather the attitude of figuring out, you know, the scientific reason for everything that I've described in this home because I think we're very answered driven. That's what Google is therefore to give us answers to our questions. And so by losing the space to not know at does feel like a loss of a certain kind of mindset certain kind of relationship to the world that I think would be really profitable. Yeah. Unknowing feeling that there's something deep the econ- quite describe in everyday conversation. But you need to get it somehow so easily chiselled with with words and come to come to a close understanding of it. But you don't have to fully understand. I think that's important. I guess that comes back to the night in the sense that the not you have these personal feelings, you have these fools. And is that kind of feeling that you meet come to some sort of conclusion on things sometimes to put a little, and that's where a lot of anxiety comes from. I think it comes from a need to control things. But actually. You can say you don't understand. It's quite easy. There's a there's a lot of complex things in the world that I make sense, and you can say, well, I can live with. I'm still leaning at this table trying to solve the riddle of the predicament on electric lamp. While the moth tops that window on the kitchen ticks dryly. But the secret workings of a cloak. The spider an eye waving Claude coolness clap rights is in the prison scene of the lights out. Combing the blueprints. Masterminding the architecture trying to break us owes free. You've been listening to knock turn I'm Vanessa low knocked her and is produced by me and was created by myself and Ken spiraling. Who also composed? The theme music. The show is distributed by KCRW. Our senior editor there is Nick white Nocturne also receive support from KCRW's independent producer project. You can find links to the work of poets, sesame parks and Tom Harding at our website knocked her and podcast dot org and the show notes for this episode. Tom has a book of poems entitled night work. And as mentioned in the episode, Cecil e has one cold Oneidas. They're both beautiful. Also you asked and we listened. We finally created some very cool, nocturnal swag, t shirts tote bags hoodies. You can find a link to our T public store at the website knocked her in podcast dot org. Just go to the merch tab on the top of the homepage till next time. Thanks for listening. This podcast was made by public radio station. KCRW our status nonprofit enables us to make bold and unusual programs. But we need your support to keep it that way donate or become a member at KCRW dot com slash join. And thanks.
Matthew Hopkins and The Discovery of Witches
"On Apple TV. Plus I'm Emily Dickinson one purpose to become a great writer I'm a woman should receive an education should not be the same as a man who they're scared that if they teach us how the world works we'll figure out how to take over I am point there's nothing you can do to stop Hailee Steinfeld Dickinson on Apple TV plus open the apple TV APP to start watching now subscription required Welcome stuff you missed in history class a production of iheartradio's how stuff works hello and welcome to the podcast I'm Tracy v Wilson and I'm holly fry today we are going to talk about England's largest and deadliest cassette of witch trials which were largely influenced by one man that was Matthew Hopkins who was known as the witchfinder general although this really doesn't seem like a tidal title that was given to him in any kind of formal or official capacity this happened in the region of East Anglia between sixteen forty five and sixteen forty seven so it was the peak of which trial activity in early modern Europe but it was also a couple of decades before the Salem witch trials on the other side of the Atlantic Ocean most of the people who were put to death in these trials were poor elderly women and some of the methods that Hopkins and other investigators were using could be classified as torture even though torture was not supposed to be used in cases of witchcraft at that time so this behavior on his part was so over the Lauren to a lot of people that he earned a lot out of criticism for it in his day yeah I think we tend to think that Oh looking back that was horrible but everyone was on board then no no absolutely not these which trials sales were not really about things like pagan practices or herbal medicine or fortune telling as a basic definition a witch was someone who was believed to be using magic to do harm people who are using magic for good like curing diseases were often called white witches or cunning folk aside from the fact the cunning folk or sometimes called into help identify which is they weren't typically part of these trials at all unless someone found a reason to suspect them of doing doing harm I think one of the common ideas about which trials in somebody was practicing herbal medicine and authorities found that really threatening for some reason and that wasn't so much the case with what was going on here beyond the basic idea of causing harm with witchcraft specific beliefs about which is really varied over time and from one place to another for example the idea that which is made a pact with the devil was common in some parts of your before the seventeenth century but it didn't really make its way to what's now the UK and Ireland until a little bit later it might have been introduced by King James the Sixth of Scotland and I of of England King James wrote about that idea in his book Dima -nology which he published in fifteen ninety seven that was shortly after ascending to the throne of Scotland and the idea of making pacts with the Devil and having demonic familiarize was a huge part of the witch trials that we're talking about today but really not so much an English list witch trials that happened centuries before there were also variations in exactly how different communities dealt with suspected which is to look England and Scotland again again both had laws against witchcraft by the sixteenth century but an England the demand for accused witches to be brought to justice tended to start with members of the community who believed that they had personally been harmed in Scotland that demand tended to come from the ruling elite out of a broader desire to root out which is his and anything else that was contrary to God in early modern England witchcraft accusations tended to follow pretty regular pattern given how deeply deeply ingrained the belief in witchcraft was it's totally possible that there were some people who actually were trying to harm their neighbors in some way but most of the time time these accusations were false and it was really about an interpersonal dispute. Here's an example from the trials that we're talking about today Robert Taylor testified ride that Elizabeth gooding came into his shop and asked for half a pound of cheese which she would pay for later he said no because he's horrible and denied people cheese no that's totally not the thing She muttered under her breath about it came back later with the money and bought the cheese that night Taylor's horse fell ill and four days later that horse died which he said was Elizabeth gooding's doing as a payback for him refusing to help her Elizabeth gooding denied all of these allegations entirely entirely so while these kinds of interpersonal disputes could spark isolated accusations of witchcraft. They weren't usually enough on their own to set off a huge panic panic when that did happen there was typically some other larger issue going on that was causing other social or political or economic unrest when the case as of Matthew Hopkins Time as a witch finder that's something else was the English civil wars okay as a quick recap the English civil wars span from sixteen forty to sixteen fifty one and they also involved Ireland and Scotland in England the dispute was between the monarchy and its supporters on one side and parliament and its supporters on the other Charles the I had ruled England without a parliament from sixteen twenty nine to sixteen forty a period known as the personal rule that has come up on the show before he only only summoned to parliament when he had no other choice but the king and parliament disagreed over a number of matters especially whether the king or parliament should have control over the military during the English Civil Wars King Charles I was executed his son Charles the second was sent into exile and at least one hundred eighty thousand Charles and people were killed in battle or as a result of the war and then on top of all of the violence and chaos and loss of life both sides in the English civil war use the idea of witchcraft to target the other royalist propaganda quoted I Samuel fifteen twenty three from the Bible which reads four rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft parliamentarians claimed that Charles the first nephew Prince Rupert of the Rhine was a witch and that has dogged boy was familiar battlefield losses were blamed on bewitched and in sixteen forty three parliamentarian forces executed a woman just before the battle of newbury according waiting to written accounts I they examined her and they found physical evidence on her body that she was a witch although hundreds of executions for witchcraft were carried out during the English civil wars. This one in newberry was something of an anomaly because witchcraft was a crime that was typically handled through the English courts this legal history went back to fifteen eighteen seventeen with the bill against conjuration and witchcraft and sorcery and encampments which made witchcraft a felony punishable by death that that law was later repealed but the act against conjuration enchantment and witchcraft followed in fifteen sixty to the law that was in effect during the events is that we're talking about today was the sixteen four act against conjuration witchcraft and dealing with evil and wicked spirits it repealed that fifteen in sixty two law before going on to say quote if any person or persons after the said Feast of Saint Michael the Archangel next coming show US practice or exercise any invocation conjuration of any evil and wicked spirit or shall consult covenant with Entertain Employees Feed or reward award any evil and wicked spirit to or for any intent or purpose or take up any dead man woman or child out of his her or their grave or any other place where the dead body resided or the skin bone or any other part of any dead person to be employed or used in any manner of witchcraft sorcery charm or enchantment or shall use practice or exercise any witchcraft enchantment charm or sorcery whereby any person shall be killed destroyed wasted consumed pined or lamed in his or her body or any part thereof so if any person who did all about stuff that I just read they would be put to death as a felon as would anybody who aided or abetted or counsel them the method of execution in these cases was generally hanging under the same law anyone who used witchcraft to find treasure provoke unlawful love or cause harm to cattle or goods and would be imprisoned for a year of course the parliamentarians execution of the woman known as the newbery which wasn't the only extrajudicial killing of a suspected in which there were definitely other instances of vigilante murder as well but it was far more common for an accused witch to be tried before a jury in the same the court system that was being used for other crimes through much of the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries it was possible and even likely to be found not guilty the of witchcraft for example between fifteen sixty and sixteen hundred two hundred fifty eight people were indicted for witchcraft in the home circuit assizes the assizes were criminal uh-huh courts that tended to focus on more serious crimes less than a quarter of those two hundred fifty eight people were found guilty even after the passage of the witchcraft after act of sixteen o four which was stricter than the law that it replaced conviction rates still tended to be about twenty percent or lower even though there were definitely periods where that percentage percentage was much higher the witch trials that happened in East Anglia between sixteen forty five and sixteen forty-seven happens during one of those periods when a lot more people were convicted convicted of witchcraft the chaos of the English civil wars had led to an increase in the number of witchcraft allegations authorities in general were also overstretched rushed because of the war and then on top of that the courts themselves were understaffed most of the assize circuits had lost at least one judge after the ones who had sanctioned sanctioned King Charles's personal rule of England were impeached so an overburdened understaffed court system was having to deal with a sudden influx of all these allegations nations and another important point Matthew Hopkins was out there drumming up allegations and we're going to get into that after we I pause for little sponsor sponsor break this episode of stuff you missed in history classes brought to you by so fi I know when I was at the very beginning of my career I knew I was supposed to be putting something aside for my future that I needed to be investing but not only did I not even know where to start I felt like I had nothing to start with the dot com bubble had just collapsed it had taken me months to find any job at all and I know a lot of people today are in the same boat but so fi invest makes it super easy for anybody to start investing with just as little as a dollar so fi invest makes investing really simple. 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Number six zero five four six one two Matthew Hopkins went from relative obscurity to being being the most notorious and influential figure in England's largest series of witch trials seemingly overnight his father was a puritan named James Hopkins Hopkins who was vicar of Great Women Suffolk England James took that position in sixteen twelve which was a couple of years after he got married James's father had been in a landowner and he inherited money from both of his parents so the family was able to live pretty comfortably regardless of how profitable their vicarage was and they were able to set their children up with trusts James Hopkins died around sixteen thirty four that's the year that his will was proved or legally accepted as the last will of the deceased that will reference six children including matthew and his brother Thomas it left them in the care of his widow with instructions that they be brought up quote in in the fear of God this suggests that at least some of James's children were not legal adults yet when he wrote this will based on the timing of his marriage and death and the fact fact Matthew was the fourth of six children Mo- sources estimate that he was born in Sixteen nineteen or later and then it is a mystery given the family's affluence matthew probably had a good education but we don't really know in what he's often described as being a lawyer but there's no evidence that he formally studied law although his fixation with witchcraft clearly had some religious roots it does not seem as though he wanted to follow in his father's footsteps into the clergy we don't even know whether he'd really studied the literature of the day on witchcraft and the identification of witches which there was a whole lot of there was is the malaise malfa Kerem or the hammer of witches which was written by two Dominicans from Germany and Austria and published around fourteen eighty six the hammer of witches became a standard manual for witch hunting and there were almost thirty editions published between fourteen eighty six and sixteen hundred we mentioned King James's Dima Manala earlier that was a compendium on necker Nancy sorcery and spirits and it might have been one of the sources for Shakespeare's Macbeth George Gifford produced I used to books on witchcraft. They were a discourse of the subtle practices of devils by witches and sorcerers in fifteen eighty seven and a dialogue concerning which is in witchcraft's in fifteen ninety three John Cada published the trial of witchcraft in sixteen sixteen and then republished it nine years later as has the infallible true industry which Richard Bernard's a guide to Grand Juryman came out in sixteen twenty seven and discussed methods of identifying witches which is as well as natural conditions in quotation marks that might be mistaken for witchcraft there were to be clear also writers arguing that at least some of this was superstitious nonsense including the more skeptical the discovery of witchcraft by Reginald Scot in fifteen eighty four as an aside he has long long been on my list is a subject good this show I went down a rabbit hole of all of these various writings on witchcraft and was like I wish we could just do the episodes on all of them because some of them are just so bizarre in their claims that they put forth various historians have closely read Hopkins writing to try to find traces of these and other previous works on witchcraft they have drawn varying conclusions on on what he might or might not have been familiar with given his upbringing and his father's position and the really widespread belief in this type of witchcraft it's probably something the thing that he would have talked about at home among his family but aside from King James as Dima -nology hopkins doesn't directly reference any of these previous works in his own writing he instead says his knowledge of witchcraft and how to identify which is came from his own experience I like how the idea of talking about about it at home leads me of course like if you don't talk to your kids about witchcraft I learned it by watching you right exactly that's exactly the whole entire self entertainment loop that's running in my head right now that experience though that Tracy just referenced started in sixteen forty four or when hopkins was living in Manning Tree in Essex in his account in which he refers to himself in the third person quote in March sixteen forty four he had some seven or eight of that horrible sect of which is living in the town where he lived a town in Essex called manning tree with diverse other adjacent which is of other towns owns who every six weeks in the night being always on the Friday night had their meeting close by his house and had their several solemn sacrifices they're offered into the Devil Hopkins went on to say that one night he heard one of the witches talking to her amps and telling them to go to another witch who was then caught searched for a devil's mark which these witches purportedly used to feed their imp familiar 's in this case the woman who was examined had quote three teats about her are which honest women have not this woman was Elizabeth Clark who was an elderly disabled woman who was living in poverty having identified the mark the next step up to identifying a witch was to keep her awake for at least two or three days to lure her familiar into coming to her assistance this was known as watching the witch and sometimes it was combined with walking or making the accused woman stay on her feet pacing around sometimes until she injured herself in Hopkins Hopkins Account the familiar in this case appeared on the fourth night and there were ten people in the room when it happened Hopkins said Clark called several familiar quote one Holt who came in a white Kit Ling to Jeremiah you came in like a fat Spaniel without any any legs at all she said she kept him fat for she clapped her hand on her belly and said he sucked the good blood from her body three vinegar Tom who was like a long legged greyhound with an head like an ox six and a long tail and broad is who win this discover spoke to and bathe him go to the place provided for him and his angels immediately transformed formed himself into the shape of child for years old without ahead and gave half a dozen turns about the house and vanished at the door four falcons sugar like a black rabbit five news like polecat after this Hopkins said the imprisoned Clark named several other witches from the community including were there which marks were how many times they had and what those imps names were those were names that included Ella Manzar pie whack it peck in the Crown Grizzle title and Greedy Gut so if you're looking for pet names maybe make a list today because there are a lot of good ones necessite as I was working on this I kept getting really frustrated because is this story is about a lot of women most of them elderly and living in poverty who were put to death for no reason and sometimes tortured beforehand which is is awful but these descriptions of their familiar and stuff are amazing and I'm like I wish the story wasn't so horrible and tragic because these are great I mean that's always like the long-term appeal of of all of these stories right there is something fantastical and fantasy and wonderful about about them like it's this panic made people real creative but unfortunately it also made them jerks and treat women with just deplorable methods yeah so like we don't want to minimize that at all but at the same time pie whack it and peck in the crown like it's fascinating while she was being questioned Elizabeth Clark said that an West was another witch and soon accusations of witchcraft were spreading all through the community Rebecca West who was an teenage daughter accused several women as well including also accusing her mother. After these and other accusations trials began in sixteen forty five Clark gave her own testimony about this before the right honorable Robert Earl of Warwick and several justices the peace in her confession she said that the devil had been coming to lie with her in bed for six or seven years she traced it back to another woman that woman in being an West Clarke had been gathering sticks in a field one day and an West had seen her and felt sorry for her because she only had one leg according to Clark West said she would send quote a thing like a little kid lynn that would help her and bring her provision in her confession Rebecca West said that she an Leach Elizabeth gooding Helen Clark and her mother had all met at Elizabeth Clarence House they'd prayed to their familiar and they'd planned a number of misfortunes Lurton and tragedies that had happened in the community and she said that the devil came to them while they were there her confession ended with the devil having appeared to her at night and married her a thing that we should note here all of this testimony about the appearance of familiar in various animal forms suckling on the bodies of the accused accused sounds really bizarre some of this is often attributed to the nature of the questioning if watchers kept a suspected which awake for days at a time she who is likely to be delirious by the end of it and it would make total sense for her sleep deprived statements to sound absolutely unreal and many of the techniques used to test which is these are defined as abuse or torture today so it also makes a lot of sense that the accused people would tell the investigators what they wanted to hear to just stop the torture orcher or otherwise simply to protect their own life at the same time though people sincerely believed that this type of witchcraft and these amps and familiar failures they believed all that was real an in court documents the watchers and the investigators who hadn't been through any of these ordeals themselves also described personally seeing these demonic familiar is in various shapes and forms in the case of Elizabeth Clark that included Matthew Hopkins his Associate John Stern four women who bid participated and watching her and other people all of whom testified to personally seeing these familiar when they were in court the testimonies he's from this first set of sixteen forty five which trials are documented in a true and exact relation of the several information's examinations and confessions of the late which is arraigned and executed in the county of Essex who were arraigned and condemned at the late sessions holden at Chelmsford before the right honorable Robert sort of Warwick and several of His Majesty's Justices of peace the twenty ninth of July sixteen forty five wherein the several murders and devilish witchcraft committed on the bodies of men women and children and diverse cattle are fully discovered published by authority so they're scans ends of this online and it goes on and on with pages of testimony detailing which marks and amps and marriages to the devil as well as accidents illnesses miscarriages miscarriages and deaths that the witches purportedly caused and in some cases confessed to in July sixteen forty five Elizabeth Clark an an west I were tried along with thirty four other suspected witches nineteen of them were executed by hanging and nine more died of disease in prison Rebecca West was released in exchange for testifying against the others only one of those women was actually acquitted these accusations and trials than spread yeah well beyond ethics and we will get to that after another sponsor break this episode is brought to you by Norton three sixty with lifelock how you spend your time and for example what podcasts you listen to you that's totally in your control but your personal information on the other hand that is another story because when you shop bank bank or browse online your personal information gets out there and you can lose control of it exposing CYBERCRIME I know I shouldn't have lost control of it on a number of occasions and it is no fun whatsoever however but you can get back a sense of control over how to help protect yourself and your personal information thankfully there's Norton three sixty with lifelock an all in one membership for your your cyber safety that gives you device security identity theft protection vpn for online privacy and more plus if there's an identity theft related problem they have agents agents who will work to fix it no one can prevent all cybercrime and identity theft but norton three sixty with lifelock is a powerful ally to help protect you in today's connected world the sign up today for a Norton three sixty with lifelock membership and since you choose to listen to this podcast you're GonNa save twenty five percent or more off your first year at Norton Dot com slash history sorry that is Norton Dot Com slash history for twenty five percent off in the accusations of witchcraft were made in manning tree where the start of a set of witch trials so widespread spread and so closely associated with Matthew Hopkins that it is sometimes called the Hopkins Witch Panic Hopkins and his associate John Stern traveled from place is to place investigating reports of witchcraft inspecting women's bodies for marks watching suspected witches and in some cases swimming them which was throwing them into the water sometimes tied up to see if they would sink or float more than ten people were put on trial in Sudbury forty in Norfolk and eight in Huntingdonshire Sinden Shire they were overwhelmingly but not exclusively women the records are not always clear but in total at least two hundred fifty people were put on trial in East East Anglia between sixteen forty five and sixteen forty seven and more than one hundred of them were executed some estimates double all of those numbers the number of accusations was so big that parliament appointed a special commission of oil to hear the cases and that followed the letter of the Sixteen Oh four witchcraft craft law the commission criticised Hopkins and his methods torture had been outlawed in the questioning of witches so they thought some of what he was doing was unacceptable although the most questionable cases were thrown out most of the accused were again found guilty although Hopkins and Stern maintains that they only went to places where they had been invited by concerned people in the community the people in those towns were not universally welcoming even apart from the people being accused of witchcraft the witch finders were paid for their work and paid well so people accuse them of making up allegations for money Hopkins total pay has been estimated at one thousand pounds when the average person at the time was making pennies per day Hopkins and Stern were criticized for what they were doing almost from the very beginning when they started doing it possibly even criticized from parliament one of Hopkins biggest individual critics was puritan rector John Gall who was something of a skeptic when it came to witchcraft gall directly challenged what Hopkins was doing and in sixteen forty six he published quote select cases of conscience touching witches and witchcraft which begins with a letter from Hopkins saying that he was going to go into great starting to look for witches goal believed that which is existed listed and in his opinion total disbelief in which is was a first step on a path of disbelieving in God but at the same time he thought what was really at work in England Linin Sixteen forty-six with superstition he thought that people were using witchcraft and demons to find something to blame for the ordinary problems of life after noting his belief that which is did exist he wrote quote but there are also a sect or sort that on the other hand are as superstitious in this point as these can be infidelities Fidelius they conclude prematurely not from reason but indiscretion that which is not only
Terrance Hayes: American Sonnets for My Past and Future Assassin
"Support comes from the Getty, presenting book of beasts an exhibition that transports you into the world of the medieval best, Jerry, a popular book featuring an array of animals, both real and mythical now through August. Eighteenth more at Getty dot EDU. This podcast was made by public radio station, KCRW our status as nonprofit enables us to make bold and unusual programs, but we need your support to keep it that way, donate, or become a member at KCRW dot com slash join, and thanks high before we begin a one warn, you the today's episode contains strong language that some listeners may find offensive. Funds for bookworm are provided in part by Lannan foundation. From KCRW in KCRW dot com. I'm Michael silver bullet this book worm. And today, my guest is Terrance. Hayes Terrence has been nominated for an LA times book festival poetry prize in Emily Dickinson, says that a poem should take the top of your head off, and isn't that the way she says? She says his poems, take the top of my head off. Let's begin by hearing one of his poems. This is Terrance Hayes from the book, American son it from my past and future. Assess thanks. And this poem is called American sonnet from my past, and future assassin, like like all of the poems actually, but in a few of them, I'm just trying to give you a definition. So this is probably a good place to start American sonnet from my past and future. Assassin. I lock you in an American sonnet. That is part, prison, part panicked closet, a little room and a house set aflame. I lock you in a form. That is part music box part, meat grinder to separate the song of the bird from the bone. I lock your persona in a dream inducing sleeper, hold while you're better selves watch from the bleachers. I make you both Jim and crow here as the crow, you undergo a beautiful catharsis trapped one night in the shadows of the gym as the gym the feel of crow dropping to your floors is not unlike the stars falling from the pep rally posters on your walls, I make you a box of darkness with the bird in its heart voltages of acoustics instinct, and metaphor. It is not enough to love you. It is not enough to want you destroyed. Terrance hayes. It's a book of seventy American son. It's. All of them written in the first two hundred days of the presidency of Donald Trump, and all of them called American son it from my past and future assassin now to listeners, you may hear some words if they're offensive to the FCC will leave them. But if they're offensive to us as human beings, let's expand our limits as human beings, and accept what it's there to be exempted. Now, you this is your fifth book of poetry. Is it six six number say, though? I mean man. I just don't know what else poets would be doing it for not also just trying to ask the same questions like, what is the provocative word is all language about context or subtext reading between the lines. So anything that's provocative inside the book, and certainly in terms like certain words that I use, I'm as aware as anybody else, but as soon as I think of a word that's offensive. I'm more likely to want to get a little closer to it and figure out why so the safe words just aren't going to be where the real energy is for me, who wants a poet or a poem to be safe. Right. Poem? Is there to either as in this poem, lock you up or set you free? One of the other or maybe both at the same. Maybe it's not enough to love you and it's not enough to want you destroyed is, or even saying sonnets for mass Asan, like I, I sometimes think all of this stuff is I, I hope the book speaks for itself is what I'll say. So I don't run around. I actually try not to explain it too much because the very notion of those kinds of the paradoxical love poem or paradoxical words or what poems supposed to do. What sonnet supposed to do? I mean that is a large part of the project here. The thing that people don't expect and understand, you went to college as a basketball scholarship small school. Yeah, it was only way I got their play basketball, but I you know, I wrote on the side, actually majored in fine arts so arts always been a kind of private personal thing. And so I try to like. Honor that. Personal part of it. While having to be a professional kind of lifestyle right now, but a lot of people don't expect poets to have basketball in their background. They expect poets to be a little bit on. What does the word? Cisa fide. Maybe. Yeah. I could be that too. I mean you know, I'm a whole bunch of things that once you edited, one of the volumes of the best American poetry. And you said in the introduction, which you wrote in the form of an interview between you and the cool star of de mirror nabokov's penalty fires right? Dr Charles Kim both kin boat. The fussy scholar, who wants to see himself in every mirror is interviewing you in an imaginary interview. And you tell him that you ask your stew? Students to tell you where the hunt parts of a poem are located. It's totally true. That is what's amazing about your poems. They take fire. They start to boil their often shocking, you know, I had to walk around my room with my hands on my head ruling off from these poems, now it's almost as if someone for God, that a poem should be hard tour, sir. Can you teach that I'm just trying to teach people to trust their, their reader Lee sensibility, really and that would be true for everybody, just like hearing, a piece of music, or going to a movie. I just nicked it art and poems in particular restore your natural trusts or suspicions about language, but, you know. If you go to school or listen to a bunch of, like, even politicians you start to not trust that, since of heat, but I find almost universally with any group if I put any kind of poem in front of them, and I say, can we just talk about where you fell? He where you thought something was kind of coming off the page for whatever reason, you know, we don't always line up, but more often than you would think people sort of go to the same places. So I wanted to ask you to read a poem, that is very powerful. It's the one on page. Forty four also called American son it from my past and future. Assassins, I'll say, I you know, it's in a book, so obviously, I had to make I brought like two hundred of these things. And so sometimes on the fence about what should have been or should not have been what was left on the cutting room floor. And this was like wanted to last one is I put it in pull it out. Putting him in the pond have been Britain, but of the two hundred that I was trying to narrow I just kept going. I'm back and forth really because of the end because I decided like do. I really know what's going on at the end of this poem, and at Asada just to kind of let that question be what it is. All right. American sign it from my past, and future assassin, it feels sadder when a black person says nigga because it sounds like nigger, if feel sadder when a brother or sister says nigga because it sounds like nigger. I have never heard either word in the mouth of my mother, or father, once I had a lover who said, neither word out loud. I used neither word for years if feel sadder to hear a nigga say nigger when it sounds like nigger. Nothing. Saddens me more than nigger one, who's master has no Lord. No word leaves me more graced by shame. You will always be my nigga. I say to the mirror because. Because it is a dark water, the temperature of a blade the yellow flower, stalking dream. Terrance. Hey, his reading from his book, American son it for my past and future assassin now. Can I say, first of all, I think this is a great poem? And I think what you do in the poem is to own. The question of will words. You won't them. And you take them back from people who would misuse them or use them as defamation this belongs to you poet. You know, I mean, I think, again, this is sort of the poets charge. I don't I know lots oppose maybe we don't all lined up and terms what we prioritize. But, like as a poet, that's a very literal statement. Like, even though the words are different and I know ninety percent of my friends and you know, eighty percent of the music I listen to is dealing in around of nigga, and I'm just saying, but, you know, it's still so close to this very problematic words. So I can't I mean it's almost every letter, but a couple, so statistically, it's very hard for me to kind of traffic in that without thinking on that. But this is the first book I mean, I feel I may be my first book, I use it, but this is like the first book where I haven't had it once much less. I remember times it shows up, there are several ponds around sort of meditating on the cultural word nigger and. Still putting that poem yet to say, like even that get does something to me. They don't always that doesn't always sit comfortably with me. But I think I have to kind of live with that, you know, because we're living in a particular time we're once again, Huckleberry Finn is being pulled out of the library. Right. Right. So you should be no, no. I mean I can tell you a little story like that or being asked him a program that I won't say what it is. So the first thing I said to them was, what would be like trying to put underwear when they want him to come on this someone had written a book, and they were going to change the work to slave. So it was going to be slaves, Jim, all of it through it, and they wanted me to come on this program and talk about that. So on the phone call to the kind of venting. I just said, which you can't put like underwear on David, like, if tomorrow, we decided that Michelangelo's David was inappropriate, and we put the underwear on him, we know what's under there. So that's not going to change it. This language is in our culture, it's been there much like, you know, the statue David has been there. And I'm really just often just thinking about ways to kinda like get another angle on the conversation. There's a poem where I'm talking about like having six sides to it. I generally think almost everything should have at least six sides to not like black and white Knight. Right or wrong. But a kind of walking around India idea. And so that's what that impose follows. And that's how I think about the word let's hear it. It's a beautiful poem American sonnet from my past and future. Assassin the song must be cultural confessional clear, but not obvious. They must be full of compassion, and crows, bowing and vultures shadow. The song must have six sides to it. And the clamor of voltages the song must turn on the compass of language like a tangle of wire endowed with feeling the notes must tear and tear. They must be a love for the minute and minute. There must be a record of. Witness and daydream with a heart is torn or feathered and tarred where death is undone time diminished. The song was told its own storm and drum and shed annoys so lovely, it is sung at sunset, weddings, baptisms, and beheadings. Henceforth. It's so. Amazing. Let's, let's just hear another poem right away. This is about looking at another person when you're dancing. Oh. Sure. All real stuff. You know, American sonnet from my past and future recess. I'm not sure how to hold my face when I'd ans- in an expression of determination, or you for you. And how should I look at my partner in her eyes or at her body, should I mirror, the rhythm of her hips, or should I take the lead? I hear Jimi Hendrix was also unsure and dance despite being beautiful, and especially tuned. Most black people know this about him. He understood the rhythm of a delta farmer on guitar in a juke joint circa, nineteen thirty-three as well as the rhythm of your standard bohemian on guitar in a New York apartment amid daydreams of jumping through windows. Ballads of footwork, monk orchestras miles with strings whatever I'm just saying, I don't know how to hold myself when I do you. Terrance as that's the poem that draws the first section of the seventy son. It's to a conclusion, and I think it's because the poems that preceded can be political in tense. This one is can you look at me when I'm feeling for you, can you look back. Can I look back? Do we have each other's permission? And that's I think what a poem is always asking. And I think Emily Dickinson is shocking because she asks your permission to shock and frighten you. And when you read her you think wait, wait, isn't this the widow of 'em Hearst? Isn't this? The one who was always wearing white and stayed indoors. And you know, but instead there she was hiding her poems at the bottom of the drapes. They were only found after she was gone, and they continue to be revised because her handwriting, and her spacing, we're so strange and obscure, I think of this book, American son. It's from my past, and future assassin as being like finding an Emily Dickinson book of poems where you can't be sure that these poems. They don't wanna be your friends, and get sometimes they do that poem. Right. But can I say to you, and this may be gives you an angle, at least on my head, is that, you know, when Emily Dickenson shows up, she shows up in the next poem, my question is, like, well. If she was single for so long, I wonder what she did like to pleasure herself part of what we're talking about is that, you know poetry, when it's good takes us. Pastor boundaries. Sure. And we're not supposed to hold onto them. You know, we, we, we may think we're supposed to it may be easier to hold onto our boundaries. But the greatness of literature is when the boundaries disappear. Drew literally is about blending boundaries. I think it's permission. It's a great place where you are able to do some overlap. And think about the way things are integrated. And sometimes yeah, just kind of interesting ideas, if you think of metaphor, being implicitly kind of empathetic gesture, I'm Michael silver, blah. And you're listening to bookworm from the studios of. KCRW. I'm talking with Terrance Hayes about his new book, American son. It's from my past, and future assassin will continue after the short break. I'm Michael silver blunt, this bookworm, and talking with Terrance Hayes about his new book, American son. It's from my past, and future assassin, existential, political personal poetry and dreams and the nightmares for haunted country. And when I say haunted, I think I'm talking about. You knew what most people think of as the great American novel, Moby Dick, and they're hunting down the white whale. But under the decks, there's a whole second crew of black sailors, who are hunting down the black nurse. In push it on that boat. And when they pull a well up on board. They're all holding onto the whale, what to extracted sperm, everything in Moby Dick turns into black and white and. Weird puns about sexuality. I have a kind of a Moby Dick. It's in the basement of this poem. So in this one, I am speaking kind of maybe in the voice of some of the people on that boat. And I never sort of explain it in the poem. But in the context of this moment, here, you'll see how it's related to something like Moby Dick American sonnet from my past future assassin. I thought we might as well, seeing the fables of C to fill our mouths before sailing out to whale. I thought we might seeing as well of the feeling of c moving about the whale like a coat the color of water is always the temperature of a mirror. I thought we might drown our reflections in a swaying, like our songs of mother wit and mother, whoa are toast with the water a deep dark, blue and almost indigo. We paled from the whale before sale WALE. Road is a kidding for C time machine is a kidding for the mind alive. Is a killing for the electrified. I thought we might seeing of the wire wound round the wound of feeling. So yeah, it's in there. How explicit it has to be, especially if you're just thinking about metaphor? I'm never super-conservative about, like the kind of explicitness of context. But all the things that we're talking about, like of one lives a life as a reader, and enjoys language and Moby Dick, Emily Dickinson. I would say those things show up next to questions of what kinds of language that my parents us in the house. What do I say when I'm on a dance floor? What do I think, when I'm on the dance floor? So I hope all those things live in the same space. You know, the same kind of. Yeah. Questions about language want to be able to run wound and round. You know, putting those together, it's almost enough without even thinking about subject, well, even tunes in the first poem, you read, you ask to make both Jim G Y M and crew here hidden in there is Jim crow, right? And hidden. There is that America from which your pest and futures s and come and it may be necessary. People may think to hide these things in ponds or in figures of speech, but no pun and no figures speech is going to hide the fact that Jim crow existed in the American South, and that is something for some Americans to be ashamed of and other Americans to be infuriated by, and we live in a country that is trying to resuscitate the spirit of Jim crow to some extent. I think this book was written to defeat. That spirit. Sure. And also to turn it like the question becomes, like, who is the you is that a Trump figure or is that just any general person? But to say or is that America like I make you a box of darkness with a bird in his heart that might be how I would think about what it is to be a personal color in America, a queer person a woman, like we know that all of these segments that are not that are have find ourselves contained in this country and all of his limitations, we still get around you knowledge that the first person that you're aware of who wrote what she called, American son. It's was one, the Coleman of poet, who lived in wrote in Los Angeles, and. That wonder magnificent spirit that she was had the nerve to attack. Everybody my Angelo, as a lot of people. There's a long list. Even offers interaction see got on me, it was like during the first Iraq war. I think maybe it was the second one and. Ben asking me like what really do you know about any of this stuff at, at my twenties at the time? So I'm saying, like nobody was above her her bite. But always it was an intelligent bite. It was always rooted in a truth, you know, pursuing the truth, which is what she would do. Can I say Jerry star wrote some American science? He published a book called America signs, but they were fairly, sir. Yeah, yeah. But there were fifty lines. They weren't as I I'm moving closer to what she's what she was trying to do. You were saying about wonder that it was an intelligent fight. What if it wasn't an intelligent bite descent matter, either? Sometimes bite is bite. Yeah. I mean it does matter I I'm generally all about now. So additives like abide is about your totally right again. She's definitely a model for the book, I point to that kind of duality in her because that's what I appreciate it in her when I'm trying to get myself in these particular poems, which is why the books dedicated to her. Well, t- Terrance, one of the amazing things that I got to witness bunch of LA poets got together at the house of Bill. More to have a conversation about form and Wanda came. And she brought applications for a driver's license. Isn't that a form? She said application for a death license for burial. Right. That's another form. And she everyone was saying, doesn't she get what we're talking about with open about sonnets we're talking about no wanders far. She was concerned that the forms that were significant with the forms that were imposed upon us. In the book before this one and how to be drawn. There's a very literal example of me trying to do what she does. So I have a poem, that's in here called like a crime report. Yes, I know. So that's me literally trying to do what she's doing to assure forms are everywhere. Let me try it. But also in the book when I was really looking for is, there is a poem called American sign it for Wanda C, which I wrote for and sent it to her when she was alive. And it's at the time I'd shortest point in this book, which is really trying to write long poems. And at the time I wasn't thinking that our Idaho other book of American scientists, but she certainly was always in the DNA. So even here, just she's alive when I'm writing it, and it is it's, it's directly for her. American sonnet for Wanda. See who I know knows why all those lush boned worn out, girls are whooping at where the moon should be an eyelid clamped on its lightness. Nobody sees her without the hoops firing in her ears because nobody sees tattooed across her chest. She claims is bring me to where my blood runs and I want that to be here, where I am her son pinch in blackness and turning the nights com loose and letting the same blood fire. Threw me in her balm hair shelves full of thunder in her mouth, the fingers of some calamity. Somebody foolish enough to love her foolishly. Those who could hear no music, weren't listening. And when I say it, it's like claiming she's an elegy it roms because of her with effigy because of her if there is no smoke. There is no party. I think of you miss calamity each Sunday. I think of you on Monday, I think of you hurling hurt where the moon should be and stomping into our darkness calmly. Oh, wow. I've been talking with Terrance Hayes, author of American son. It's for my past and future assess and one of the great things about turns. His poetry is that it's published by penguin books, which means that you can find it an almost any bookstore. Thank you turns for joining as his great to be here. You can visit KCRW dot com slash book form for a punt cast of today's show also available at apple Spotify wherever you get your podcasts. Plus, you can listen on demand with KCRW smartphone apps special. Thanks to my co producer and assistant, Sean Sullivan Ellen Howard is. Associate producer, the technical director is Mario Diaz. I'm Michael silver blunt. Join me again next time on bookworm. We are. Funds for bookworm are provided in part by Lannan foundation. This program is produced in the studios of KCRW, Santa, Monica, you can access archives of all bookworm programs and podcasts, the most recent ones, I'd KCRW dot com slash bookworm. Bookworm themes were composed and performed by Ron and Russell male of sparks.
Sophie Zucker Writer/Actress (Dickinson on Apple TV)
"From the campus of Yale University. This is to live in dialogue in. La Marriage racing. It's not often that I bring someone to campus. I've never met before someone. I'm just a fan of it would be great for my students to hear from. I'm really excited today to have Sophie. Tucker coming in so fees young actress and writer currently doing both on the breakout hit of Apple. Tv's new slate Dickinson. The show has got rave reviews as a modern retelling of emily. Dickenson story starring. Hailee Steinfeld is a super weird compelling series with Contemporary Dialogue insensibility. It's got a very specific tone. That can't be easy to rate. Sophie started off playing a small role the show and impress the show runner so much with her ideas and her tweets and her personality samples that she got hired to write for season to my favorite story. Sophie told about getting the right for Apple. Tv's girl site. Is that during a read through of an episode. She wrote Tim. Cook walked into watch just walked into the writer's room and sat down. She said he had no notes. Now I get nervous when anybody. Here's my writing read aloud. Imagine if one of the richest men in the world your boss's boss's boss's boss Senate bazaar and about the COOLEST I stafford in gig. I can think of Sufis also had roles on the Marvels Mrs Mazel and Comedy. Central's the other two. And she performs her own work all over New York including Joe's Pub Union Hall Brooklyn Comedy Collective Second City and UCB. So if he was really generous to come up to campus the filming of Dickinson. She slept up here. Spoke to my class. Had Pizza with some students and about to do this larger event all when she is a six. Am Call Time tomorrow morning. So is funny and talented and excited. I can speak about breaking into the industry with freshness that most of my guests can someone on the inside of a giant tech companies inaugural. Tv's and she's a really interesting perspective on the changing TV landscape. I am thrilled to have her here. She is live from Campus Sophie. Sucker you have a very unique story about how you broke into writing so this is your first year on south of a shut right. Yeah Yeah So. I'm so happy I basically I was doing a lot of comedy in college and live. Comedy Improv Sketch. All of that kind of stuff and I thought that I wanted to maybe write for TV and I moved to New York after a graduating from Oberlin a couple of years ago and I moved to New York and I thought that maybe I would get an assistant job a TV show and sort of worked my way into a writer's room that way which is how a lot of people do it you know. They're I the show runners assistant on the writers than the writer. And so I actually gotten this job to the executive producer show called the good wife and I was a really bad assistant so I laughed. We parted ways after a season and I decided that I was just GonNa do live work day job and do you live comedy and performance much as I can could and kind of cross my fingers and hope that something would happen until I was performing a lot writing my own material. Doing stand up Improv. And then a manager saw me at performing literally in a basement and signed me and then sent me to an agent who also signed me and then I was actually auditioning allot admitting for writing jobs. Sometimes but I was really doing more acting which is what most of my credits are acted on Mazel and the indicating movie late night and a couple of other things. Who's getting you? Those acting jobs mix of my manager and my agent and then they sent me an audition for Dickinson for the first season and got it and I was apart on Dickinson. That recurred so I was on set for six months most days and I got really close with the with the creator of the show Elena Smith and she asked for some writing samples and then hired me to write on the second season. Yes yeah it was. It was A. I have read like every comedians autobiography and tried to figure out how they got tour they were and none of them said this way. And I mean that's one we've had a podcast every rider we brought to an event like this. Everyone is different way breaking in like I think probably becoming an assistant working your way up is the most common varies said to be a common one but everybody has a different story so on Dickinson. And the Raiders. Room said there were two writers who were assistance last year. Yes or yeah. So there was the resistant from the previous season and the script coordinator from the previous both got bumped up staff writers. And how big is the writer's room they're five of US which is slow. And so the order is ten episodes. Yeah and so did everybody gets right there on a visit. Yeah everybody. You're at their own episode. Some people wrote to and then some writers that we're not there for the entire writer's room came into sort of freelance certain episodes. I and which episodes you right so I wrote episode three of the second season so it won't be out for a year or something but you were telling us in class at the process was pretty extreme that you wrote it very quickly. Yeah so so. Basically rewrite as a room outlined together as a room and then You sort of take that outline and go home and add your own spin on it and punch it up and clean it up and then you come back together and you revise those outlines again and then you take that revis outline and right your episode and I got the terrifying e mail from showrunner which was semi what you have so far. I was writing my epicenter relief in it. Like you know that. If you're not too far long it doesn't have to be word right right. It could have been bad. I mean that's maybe why she was asking me because I was a first time. Safran dot it's going to be bad and so I wrote it in two days and then I sent it to her. I don't know if she knows that. Okay Okay and so. This is the first time you ever wrote a script that was going to be produced does do think it's changed your writing at all. The first question is your show episode. Three it has not been produce yet where we shot okay. Have you seen cut? Yeah well thanks. Yeah and I mean sufferers. Don't always get to be on set when their show is being shot. You're an actress so may snuck your way again. So what was it like being on set for an episode of that you have written like working with the crew and the other actors and just hearing your words by Yeah. It was really cool. It was funny. They they actually asked me if I want to sit in on meetings prior to my episode being shot to sort of like listen to see how they're planning everything and then I because I had to be on set for another episode. I couldn't join any of those meetings. So and the and I found it was a similar thing on set mostly. I was in front of the camera but there are a couple of times. Where costumes would come up to me. And they would be like literally you know. What do you like more this ring or this necklace for this character and I I was so used to being you know. Ask Ask my showrunner. And they're they're like no sh she sent us to you know Am like decisive but I just don't WanNa step on anyone's terrorist but yeah I was like the ring. Obviously and it was really. It was really cool. I mean this episode is one of our more Comedic episodes and so it was always pretty fun to shoot just because people are having a good time. We're cracking each other up. You know we're trying new things different choices and it felt like I don't know really just like a good hang mostly I also I didn't even mention this in the class but another thing happened with my episode where Tim Cook. Whose like the CEO of Apple wanted to sit in card table reads and and we were. I think we are on track to read episode two or something. That's where we were in our in our schedule and then his team requested bed. We read three my episode so I also had a lot of confidence I would say going into powerful man in the world on your first correct overlord. We did come in and sit on the yeah and was he. Did he bring it on Roche? Yeah he was literally surrounded by other tall men. I was ushered in an ushered out and did not say anything. He said he liked to this one character ship and that was wow and I guess not like to Apple. Tv would be over. I mean it would have been a problem. If he didn't like it weirdly. I felt a lot of pressure and nobody else seem that worried. So ask me amazing. Wow this and I WANNA make sure to go back and forth. So do you all have questions about about anything? We've said so far about Sophie's career in general time for yourself to writer watchdog questions about when you raid. How you ray process. Yeah it's a great question it it's changed over the years also like as my schedule has changed a think When I was working a day job and doing comedy at night and auditioning also when I could and submitting for stuff I would write sort of whenever I could and I would write mostly like live live things for me to perform and then work on sort of like one big project every couple of months oh or screenplay or a musical sometimes electorate musicals and now that have a little more. My time was a little bit more my own because I can. I dedicate all my time to just the creative staff I do sort of trion sets out at set aside time not set time every day like wake up at eight. Am To right or anything. I'm also not a morning person but definitely I like to get at least like an hour and here to work on whatever working on and now it's a little more focused because I am a writer so sometimes obviously when I was writing for the show it was writing on Dickinson. But now it's like a working on other projects that people are working on with me or of Commission for me so you're not a morning person but you have to wear all these it's for the show. So what time are you getting to set? Do you get us out. Three or four. Do Wish you a lot on long island. And that's a track and it takes like an hour hour and a half to get into hair and makeup for a period and I don't. I'm not a morning person and I don't drink coffee or whatever then I feel like we're screaming tonight tomorrow morning. What Times your call seven seven? But YOU'RE NOT GONNA get two hours back to Brooklyn and you're not gonna it's all right you just like kind of six months of the Other questions process great change. Your work maker showed was was the difference between rating writer's room writing ask questions about working with the showrunner. Yeah I mean. First of all there is just more of a process in a rail road. I basically the room is split up. We pitch a lot for the first month honestly of the room. We pitch ideas about everything about the series and we solely block out where those ideas would go if are going anywhere where they would go with with but was there sort of a blueprint for the season before you start it in the room my Her had an idea of an Arkham interesting. It's about the show constant land so we did work from that and a lot of writer's room supporting the show runners vision whereas when I'm writing by myself or even with my friends there's not as clear of a hierarchy which can be difficult when there isn't a clear hierarchy if it's like a truly democratic process sometimes that's hard but so yeah so then the first month we just pitch a lot and then the second month we work really hard on these outlines and then the third month we write the episode and so it is rare more structured. Although I will say even this room it felt very free. There were some days that we worked really late nights and there were some days where we finish what we had to do. And we got up at three and we hung out and then when I'm writing for myself I mean it's a my dad. Blinds are a little more arbitrary And my processes I like outline and then I write half of it and then I reality because I decided I hate everything that I've written and then I mean I I rewrite forever. So maybe that's that's the differences you have to stop at a certain point in the room and so are you a morning afternoon or evening writer on your on evening writer do right in your apartment go somewhere. Yeah I switch it up but I will say like when I'm really in the zone. I'm talking to myself a lot so I got in my apartment. I mean I'll do. I'll do it in public. What we're talking about Dickinson. Why don't we actually play the trailer on? This is something that you suggested. We look at because I got feeling you're saying there were there multiple trailers and this is one in particular that you found interesting okay. Tony captured the best. All right cool play probably and then we can talk about female. Men Woman should receive an education but should not be the same as. They're scared that if they teach us how the world works. We'll figure out how to take over the two of you fit into such a tiny bit. I don't give up off. I have one purpose to become a great writer. There's nothing you can do to stop. She so insane. Of course she's insane she's I'm always Dickinson. Cut Short antics. Are you have to do some things to does? Pretends girl logo like like you're dead wire still alive? If you want something reach grabbing sick you'll be the only dickerson talk about in two hundred years from issue. That also lovely funeral. Thank you thank. You might be better. Okay what did you like about that? I thought it sort of captured the balance of comedy and drama and also modern and historical I found some of the other trailers really hit the drama heavy and this sort of drama with her dad. And all that but you see like the the fun. She's having with her friends. And Yeah. So how much is that talked about in the writer's Room How historically accurate you need to be versus when when you pitch a joke like what's the ratio of who you know. Have a basis reality versus. It needs to be weird and funny. Yeah. Historical is like utmost importance in the show. We read a ton a ton of research about Emily Dickinson. An also each of the writers are assigned book about either emily or some facet of nineteenth century life then informs episode. They're writing so my episode and season two was takes. Place at a seance table and I read a book about Nineteenth Century Craft and mysticism feminism which was super cool And then my showrunner likes to say that anything that we find In history any fact that we find is going to be better than something we could make up so we ju- we are always looking for little tidbits. I remember I found out that like luxury mean. Salary was luxury item back in the day. And so we fit that in somehow and that's like a punchline. Now it's really. We are scouring books and newspaper articles and all of that stuff to fit in as much as we can. And also the broad strokes of Emily's plot do come from her life and things that she experienced mean. You know a lot of any as you do for consultant on said we yeah. We had We had like a nine eighteen hundreds consultant who we would call a lot about mostly about the politics of the time to make sure we were getting that right on the politics. I mean like literally like in the First Season Her dad runs for Congress and we wanted to make sure when we were talking about and all and the I Q seasons or leading up to the civil war so he wanted to literally make sure we are capturing the political atmosphere the time but What was the first player crystal? Just someone who's keeping you on track about Emily Dickinson to make sure you know. Relationship with their brothers accurately should their fathers accurate. Yeah so we have. We have this one consult but then also showrunner is very close friends with and Emily Dickinson scholar and so we would often call her or we would call the Emily Dickinson. Museum to fact check certain things but yeah a lot of books. I didn't know I knew like your basic high school education availing Dickinson. Which I'm sure I learned in English not even in history so I knew like some of her poems right right. An each episode is sort of based on a poem. Or How's that working? Yeah so each episode is titled. After upon that. Compasses the themes of the episode. So it's not necessarily that. We are picking these points like okay. So like for example She didn't write that first episode for it's titled. I think it's just a death. What's the one and so he's yeah Because I could not stop for death row. She didn't necessarily right that when she was in her early. Twenties or wherever? We're putting her but that encompasses again the themes of the pilot episode And so we draw. We draw a lot of what we know about emily also from her poems because that is most of the literature on her we don't know a ton of specific things about her life necessarily but we know how she thought about things in her life and her they're really struck me in the in the pilot episode when the narrator says all of her poems were found in the maids chest. Yeah and that's why we have them. What if the House burned down there? Just be knowingly Dickinson. I know I know and it was kind of customary. I think relearned to to burn certain things when people passed away but that just never happened because they were hidden in this made stronger and made you wonder how many Emily Dickinson's there are out there. Whose houses burned down. Yeah yeah totally emily. Dickinson is also an interesting one because there were women at the time so it's the it especially reared that she had all these poems and they didn't go anywhere because they could've right other questions chain you an individual with your own ways and ideas outside. Alaska telling his family Questions about sort of the individual versus the collective in the writer's room. Yeah I mean. I think it's I think it's sort of evolves over the period of our writer's room because I think at first it's really important to bring everything you have your own sensibility and all of your own ideas that you have to sort of cast a wide net of things to choose from. And then as the room evolves it's more important to serve the story that is clearly shining through and say we were talking about this in class. But I because I'm also on the show I sort of a bias towards the characters that I wanted to see you do stuff in the second season and that was all fine and fun to to pitch at the beginning and then once you realize that doesn't necessarily serve. The story is my story does but in this very specific way you sort of take a step back I also this show was very interesting because I did find that comedic Louis and emotionally. I like really the show really resonated with me and I did find that my my writing is kind of similar was already kind of similar to Dickinson so I didn't have to do a lot of like reworking of my own voice. Yeah so growing up. What kind of shows were you watching what? Tv shows influenced you the most. What voices. Yeah I I wasn't allowed to watch TV during the day. Which was important because I would just watch cartoons a lot but I remember when I was sixteen. My mom was like you can watch two shows. You can pick shows and you watch them during the week and this was also Netflix. I mean not that much before folks it came out my senior high school but Netflix's in Dvr and all that so. If I couldn't watch anything weekday probably wasn't catching them to chose were gossip girl and Glee and they were incredible influence I would say I love. Gaza Guy Loves because I love writing about like teenage girls teenage girls from New York. I mean I just find that suffer incredibly fascinating and sort of dramatizing it and making mistakes super high and then Glee was kind of my first experience with like incredibly well done satire satire again of high school but just these these characters that we totally cared about and we're super invested in. But they were all in like high school. You Know Glee Club. I just I mean I think Ryan Murphy is a genius also like such a specific style and I don't know I just those were really inflexible. Yeah for sure for a lot of people. Yeah what other questions through. The always news services is a high of new shows. There's lot wordy benefits downfalls of this surge of Television Matt how has over four and yeah I? I think a lot about this. I think the the benefit is kind of the same as the downfall which is basically that there are way more opportunities to get employed because there's so much content being made but what that means is two things one is that the pay is different There used to be you know. Only a few shows would get made and they would have tons of money in these big network shows now these streaming services. It's kind of like the wild west in terms of contracts and all of that and so you're not GONNA be paid. As much as maybe a recurring actress would have been paid or a staff writer. Would've been paid ten years ago. Orders ten exactly. You're only employed for whatever three months as opposed to the better half of the year and then also I think it means that whatever writing or acting on TV whatever. I thought that looked like it. You know it right now. I'm working more traditional. Tv Job than a lot of my friends who are creating web content for comedy central or writing. I Dunno copy for Netflix's meam account or something like that. There's a lot of ways to get paid but it's not necessarily GonNa look like I think maybe what we all sort of imagine TV would look like and even my job is not that traditional because it's for a new streaming service. That's backed by big tech though. Yeah and do you feel I mean? It's it's backed by Apple. And it's Apple's first fray into television but would you know the difference with that it was not you know. Abc or I mean. I think I would know that it's not ABC. Because what do you mean in terms of watching the show or being on the show? No I mean being on the show in writing the show and it sounds like how heavy-handed apple studios has in the writing. Yeah Apple was super hands off with our process which I think is not the case and a lot of these network shows. It's like a million people have opinions so that's been cool. I heard that about Netflix's to that. We're at least at the beginning. They were like let. The showrunner have complete creative control. I mean you even see that. In the way they have they strike. These overall deals with show creators. Where you just get to create whatever the next three shows you make the next show the however many shows you can make five years and they all go to Hulu or are they all flex and that's because these streaming services they think trust these creators so much that they're willing to go to fork over which is cool over but also they're just looking for the icon you know. Abc They need to keep the show on the air and they need to keep it. You know high qualities can come back year after year whereas a lot of these streaming companies they just want you to click on however many icons they have so it's like make it. Yeah probably only two or three seasons and then we'll have another. Yeah do you know if you're showrunner has sort of a long view is able to do this for eight seasons or is this really a short story but we all know Emily Dickinson for her old age she was alone Amherst Yeah? I mean that that is interesting. I think I think there's a to actually separate things. I think my showrunner does believe that like all good stories should end at a certain point. I've heard her say that a bunch so I think she's looking to do just like as many seasons as is not going to be great as an Adamy but there is a lot of fascinating stuff that happens at the end of Emily. Dickinson's life because she goes like a little bit insane and also there's the stuff with her brother and his affair and I think I know she has talked about creative ways of showing the latter half of Emily Dickinson's life without having to do enough season. So that Hailee Steinfeld this fifty years Yeah Brown just off to yeah. Yeah Yeah Cool. Yeah what are the questions? Yeah Yeah Yeah so well first of all talk about a little bit about how my manager Sawmill because I basically just performing comedy everywhere I could whenever I could and I think that's you can't really prepare for when someone is GonNa see you but you can prepare for everything after that. So I was lucky that he came to the show and saw me do Improv on a Wednesday night but then when he asked me if I had the other shows or if I had more material or something like that I was prepared with all of that stuff and so then that made that process that much easier because he knew when he finally saw me or that. I wasn't just you know. This wasn't a fluke that I was just doing one show or otherwise didn't do comedy. That was really serious about it. I had writing to show to him. And you know And it was like a Wednesday night. I had. Yeah really was not prepared for that. And then he So he basically. We started a conversation he saw a couple of shows of mine and he didn't sign you right off the bat. I'm just more stuff. Yeah yeah he saw Moore stuff and then and then he did sign me And then he introduced me to an agent who at first only signed me for commercials. So she she didn't have to come see me. Perform live which was cool that she was just willing to to sign me but she wasn't ready to sign me for TV. At and I think I mean is because I also I was like twenty three and just school and whatever so so then I signed another contract with her and these contracts aren't they're not incredibly binding. I honestly think there they hurt the agents and the managers a Lotta Times. More than they hurt the the actor. Because it's not. You're not locked into anything. You pay them ten percent but for most of your career or for the beginning of your career. You're not making any money. So they're kind of working for free for or did show my parents but that was kind of I mean the other thing is you. My manager was a part of this is a part of the small management firm that not a lot of people know about. My Dad was more worried about that but my was part of a bigger agency so that was pretty standard stuff and I think we all felt comfortable going there and you can like I mean if you can look them up on. Imdb and see who else they represent. There are ways to find out if they're legit you can ask around. Did have a couple of friends who are represented by people at that point I could ask about that. And so and then yeah. They basically just started sending me on auditions and submitting me to write for mostly late night shows in the city and your interviews For late night. No no I didn't. I mean I was acting was the thing that took off and I had. I had one show that was in development with a digital platform. That didn't end up. The digital platform collapsed. That was the closest I got but I really was just acting for a couple of years which was cool too. I'm curious about the marvellous MRS measles giant fan of. How did you get to work with the again? So the MARLINS. Mazel was the first TV audition I ever went on. That was yeah. I visit my managers on that I booked that and then my agent signed for right moving so that was like the I mean God. That was such a crazy because I remember. I was working nine to six day job at the time answering phones for shaving startup telling me how to use their razors on their face. Which I don't know how to do but And then I remember. I had to leave to go audition for me as all and this was also before the show would come out is the first season so I didn't. I knew Amy Sherman Palladino but from Gilmore Girls. Yeah but I I just know. I was really excited as my first TV audition and my company did not want me to leave to go on the audition and I was like look just going to be an hour an hour and then I'll be back and I'm went and then booked it so then I missed the entire next day of work to film it sometimes. That is that turnaround you book at one day in and they bring you in the next film and I got fired from my job. Was it for Amy Director? I it was for the casting director and it was a small part a couple of lines. But it's so you didn't meet Pasadena's anti went to San and then she was directing because she directed most of them the first season. I think told me some observations about her onset. She's awesome I mean. She has a ton of energy. She's like it's funny. She is here at award shows. And she's wearing all these like crazy hats but she's totally like a normal mom unsettling of my mom. Yeah she's just she's you know she keeps it moving. That is a monstrous show. There are so many extras all the time. It's a period piece. They have to make everything. Looked like. It's you know whatever of the time. And she she's like she's pretty down to business and she likes to her. Dialogue is super fast. That was like her main thing was used. Have to keep the peso. I I it so I was there for sixteen hours. You watched the finale of the first season. You Blink and you miss me but it was like it just took a really long time. It wasn't even. I mean they didn't even get my coverage my shot that much. It was just as in the background stuff to still also is a great credit to have so exciting and it was winning. It was ever like. It's your show not my show too. You know okay. So we're not far from the here but I want to. I wanted to clip ask. Sophie was seen from someone else's work that she wants to talk about from a craft perspective. And if you're listening to the podcast we do this with everybody. Nancy Meyers apartment. Ron Howard chose a scene from the CUCKOO's nest. You chose a scene from an lily called down with love. Starring Gregor and Renee Zellweger. Yes so it's basically a wrong com. It's kind of universally slept on. I would say so. Feel free to check it out. Talk about it is like the movie. The unheralded movie. Yeah it's amazing and I just remember watching it and thinking that I didn't know romantic comedies. Could be like this. Which basically like a all troops are there of the grown boy falling in love but it's super super stylized set in the supposed to be in the nineteen sixties. But it's also stylized in this way where you know they shot it in the two thousands. It's kind of like you know a wink to the audience. And there's like this incredible twist at the end so the plot is is interesting because you're watching people falling in love but then also ends up being this revealing this mystery this actually the twist so it's a spoil or but I just I just think it's I just thought it was such a such great spin on on a classic. Okay awesome Washington and talk about it briefly and we're GONNA START IT at one liners four or something before. Yeah it's really just like one superman monologue and so this is going to be. Renault's I wha Renee Zellweger doing most of the talking McGregor helping leaving K- on the outside when you're busy on the inside why the long faces we're all equal self-reliance citizens of the world here I know I am in heaven knows all men and you're with catch blocks. I certainly hope you are anyway stopped by for six cart absence. You'll busy up my captain at the hotel. All right now. You know I'm Caccia Block. Not said Martin there is no fool you star might've here. I got you I Barbara Dan with love. Novak to fall in love. I'M NOT GONNA Store Matt here catch and I'm not GonNa admit that you caught proper. Novak to fall in love because I'm not Barbara Novak. There is no proper Novak and I didn't find love SIP Martin I found with catcher block and that was a year ago when for three and a half weeks. I worked as your secretary. I don't expect you to remember me wasn't a blonde. But you did ask me out and broke my heart to say now but I loved it too much I couldn't bear to become just another notch in your bedpost with your dating habits that even if I was lucky enough to get a regular spot on your rotating schedule I would never have your undivided attention. Long a free fall in love with me. I knew to do something to set myself apart. I knew I had to quit my job as your secretary and write an international bestseller controversial enough to get the attention of New York publisher as well as no magazine insignificant enough that as long as I went insane no magazines star journalists would refuse to cover story about it. I knew that every time we were supposed to me you would get distracted by one of your many girlfriends and stand me up and this would give me a recent fight with you over the phone and Clare that I wouldn't meet with you for one hundred years and then I would have to be patient and wait two or three weeks. It would take for everyone in the world to buy copy of my bestseller and then would begin to get the publicity our need for you to one. See what I look like and to see me announced on public assault worst kind of man. I knew this would make you wanna get even by writing one of your exposes and nor do that you would have to go undercover assume false identity and pretend to be the kind of man who would make the kind of girl I was pretending to be followed love and your that since I was pretending to be a girl who would have sex on the first day. You would have to pretend to be a man who wouldn't have sex for several days and in doing so we would go out on lots of dates to all the best places and all the hit shows until finally one night. You would take me back to your place that you were pretending with someone else's in order to get evidence you needed to write your expose by seducing me until I said I love you but saying I love you was also my plan. I just wanted to tell you the truth so that when you heard me say I love. You would know that I knew you you I was and you took great catcher block the beat net. Yoram him by me. Nazi Brown your former secretary. An I would set myself apart from all the other all those other girls. You never really cared about by making myself. Someone like the one person you and above all others you. Can you realize that you had finally met your match last gain respect? That would make you very me. I and seduce me later. I just you to hear all this for me before you heard from her. Pride McDonnell got everything. There is a Novak and it's nothing back doesn't exist except for a Po box in Maine one. Nancy Brown twenty-eight grammercy park where she was born and raised while Nancy may have broken few hearts growing up. I can't find a guy we're looking for broker. Never Mind I phoned him. Okay awesome you gotta be like a four page model. Yeah yeah sure. They didn't take okay. You said that that felt like felt influential on you. It felt like your kind of voice. Yeah I mean I felt I love at the end of the day like I love a good rahm calm. I love a good teen drama. I love these sort of things that have been. You know sort of taken less seriously. Because they're of as kind of explicitly feminine but this this one felt like it was super self-aware. It knew it was a romantic comedy. And you see that. She's renee. Zellweger delivers totally unrealistic monologue. At the end that run reveal. She's been masterminding the entire thing. Which Villa Iran calm? And I just I really. I love to play with a trope Dickinson. Does that really well too? Because it is sort of like this teen comedy drama but it's set in amherst in the eighteen hundreds so I just found the merging of those things really cool. Yeah and it really feels like it's aware of itself in the same way that Dickinson is when you were first hired of the show. Did you have to go? Did you read all the first season scripts because you're reading on second season? Yeah why was on the first season so I had read them ready? Did you pour over them? In a different way you would have to write in this voice. I was a little nervous. Honestly because of how many facts were infused into it. I was kind of like how do they? How do they do that in Hamilton? Did they know all that? I mean I I write in Google at the same time a lot. You know Jimmy. Sure I'm writing accurately but I know But but yes so. I think that made me worried but other than that I like I said I really even just reading the pilot episode of Dickinson. When I I got the audition I just I just felt like it was. It was something entirely new to me but also felt very familiar to my own personal. All right well. Let's think Sophie so much for doing this Ooh there you go. Thank you so much to our producer here at the Yale Broadcast Center Ryan mcevoy. If you dug the show please do us a favor and give us a rating and subscribe. You can hit me with questions or complaints on twitter at Aaron de Tracy or email me at Aaron Dutch tracy at Yale that. Edu See you soon.
BD Wong's 'Great Leap' Into The Director's Role
"KPCC PODCASTS are supported by Warner brothers presenting the good liar. A smart suspense Thriller About Secrets. People keep an allies. They live that will keep audiences. This is guessing starring Helen Mirren and Ian mckellen rated R. Only in theaters November fifteenth from the Broadcast Center at KPCC. It's the frame frame. I'm John Horn on today. Show what last night. Cma Awards had to say about the status of women in country music. Then Tony Award winning actor B. Eighty walking steps off the stage and into the role of director for the play. The great leap plays fundamental question for me is the question of whether or not you will choose. Choose to be a person makes movement and there's a basketball metaphor here in the a one whether you choose to be still and a pair of composers give a new series about Emily Dickinson at decidedly modern. Sound all back coming up on the frame Komo. KPC podcasts are supported by Warner brothers presenting the good liar. A suspense filled thriller about the secrets. Secrets people keep an allies. They live brought to life by two storeyed award-winning actors. Helen Mirren and Ian mckellen. The film offers a clever unpredictable. Game of cat-and-mouse. In the vein vein of Hitchcock Thriller Imbued with Intrigue Danger and surprising twists on November fifteenth. Read between the lies. The good liar rated R. under seventeen not committed without apparent only in theaters November fifteenth. Welcome to the frame. I'm John Horn. The CMA awards are known as country. Music's biggest night at the third annual award show last evening the stated focus was celebrating legendary women in country music but for many fans of Country Countries Superstar Carrie Underwood who's also a long running host of the ceremony. The night was a bit of a letdown. Here's Nashville based NPR music critic. Ann Manpower's the status of women in country. Music is a hot topic in Nashville. These days and it has been since two thousand fifteen when Keith Hill who radio consultant made some comments since that gave rise to the phenomenon known as Tomato Gate or salad gate. He basically said that the reason that women were not often played on country radio. Oh is because they were the tomatoes in the salad of country music just there for an accent. Unfortunately the data backs up. What Hill was saying? It's shocking looking how little there played compared to men so there's been a grassroots movement activist groups like change. The conversation down here is it's a big one that have really fought back against this and women are organizing women artists organizing and one way that people respond to these kinds of challenges. Challenges is to mess with award shows. Because you know what John. It's easier to mess with an award show then to mess with the radio format. Sadly yeah I saw on the red carpet Jennifer nettles from the band Sugarland War Cape. That said play our expletive records. Did that message carry out into the show in terms of what people we're saying as they were picking up awards. Oh definitely a one. High Point was when Casey mass graves one for female artists of the year. She gave really heartfelt acceptance speech where she talked about. How female energy is important? Not just for country music but for the earth right now. It's kind of like Greta tune. Bergen Komo moments. But you know that vibe ran through the night in the way that the hosts spoke the evening was hosted by three women usually it's hosted by Carrie underwood and Brad Paisley. But instead of Brad we had to legends of Country Music Reba mcentire and Dolly Parton three women hosting the CMA's Ama's your lucky and definitely surfaced. When women won awards I I guess one or two of the dudes mentioned something to I think Dan Shea The duo who won I think they made a comment about how wonderful it was to see. So many women performing forming. Let's talk about some of the winners Johnathan cleaner was the first ever woman to win a CMO award for musician of the year. She's a fiddle player. She's known for playing with Blake. Shelton Shelton and how important was her win. In terms of that category today flinders win is so important. No matter how visible and audible stars stars like Marianne Morris and Casey must graves are what really is not changing or is changing far too slowly in country music and frankly likely throughout popular. Music is the makeup of the band's who support these artists. I WanNa ask you about another winner. Ashley McBride beat a a couple of guys to win the award for new artist of the year. She had a debut album that did really well called girl. Going nowhere Sir Bradley in Cranston Look Cane Fan Owning van I am so excited. That Ashley mcbryde one best artists. The thing about Ashley McBride is really powerful is that she appeals to the bread and butter country Fan She's not a Casey mass graves. Whose core audiences like? Cool millennials. Ashley McBride is out there. They're playing what I like to call flyover music music for the heartland and capturing the imaginations of that core country audience. I WanNa ask you about award that I think a lot of people thought a woman was going to win her name is Carrie underwood and it went to Garth Brooks again. Dan as entertainer of the year. It feels like he's one that I think pretty much every year since the Carter presidency but what was it about Carrie underwood. The people were surprised that she didn't take that trophy home. Wow John I have complicated feelings about this so Carrie underwood the most successful woman. Artists in the country format the highest charting most played women on radio. Put out a great album master cry pretty that pushed her in new directions. So so yeah. Everybody expected this to be her year with the theme of the whole award. Show being women in country and there's carry the whole time I mean it was. I was shocked. And when Kerry didn't take that award and I love Garth Brooks steeply. I truly do. I am a huge admirers. Him in every way I love his music I love his live shows rose. I think he's a mench but I just want to say to you. Garth you coulda done a macklemore. You could've done an Adele. When those pop artists one big awards that were expected to go to other performers in the case of macklemore Kendrick Lamar in the case of Adel beyond say they said something in their acceptance speech about that? Now garth did something interesting. He called out reba mcentire's performance that night she had performed her classic Song Fancy and he also called out Kelsey Ballerina younger women artists. Who's really strong and moving up in the country world and said? Hey y'all are great and y'all y'all deserve awards to but why he chose to not say. Hey Kerry could've been yours. I don't know there's probably politics I don't even understand their but I wanted that moment. Night and get it and powers is a critic and correspondent at NPR music. She joined us from Nashville. And thanks so much for coming back on the show. Thank Houston much. John is fun to talk about it. Having on the frame beatty Wong moves from actor to director for a new play about basketball and international politics ways in jail Welcome back to the frame. I'm John Horn. Orn has made his mark as an actor in various settings. He won a Tony Award for his performance in M. Butterfly on television with series. He's such as Mister robot in films that include Jurassic World but recently we took on the role of theater director for the great leap which is now at the Pasadena. playhouse the play written by Lauren. Ye is centered on a real life basketball game between the United States and China in Nineteen eighty-nine around the same time time as the TNN square protest that themes of the play basketball and China also have been very much in the news. You feel like you've kind of hit the Jackpot Jackpot because you are doing something that is on the forefront of people's minds the comparison of course between what's going on over there and the play itself is is is really real relegated to politics and basketball and China but those are three things that don't really use saying the same sense all the time so I don't know what I'm you know why I'm complaining and if you're pitching greatly to an audience member how would you describe what you want the play to do in terms of how they see the world or see themselves themselves in it. I'd say that I think the play at this time in our lives as an American really is there's a lot of political turmoil with our leaders and the the the kind of mess of the current administration and that frustration creates a question in our minds about what it is that is our own responsibility. What it it is that we choose to do? And whether we choose to step forward or not in the plays fundamental question for me is the question of whether or not you will choose to be a person who makes makes movement and there's a basketball metaphor here in there in the play or one whether you will choose to be still and that is a powerful question that you walk away from this display asking yourself witch character are you. Are you the one who moves. Are you the one who stands still and I have to say that we all in this audience thinks it is the person that moves always. We always think we are that person but when we really ask ourselves we have to ask wrestle. At what level are we really that person and to see two characters in great relief in the same play who are struggling with the issue she was that creates that question for us. So that's what I want them to walk away with asking themselves that question. What is it about San Francisco about these characters lives that you think is is so important to reflect in terms of the bay area and what that city is like and what these characters lives are like in that city? Well I think it's really wonderful. Full when a playwright uses a specific time or place and explores the universality of her characters through that specific time. Replace so when she describes these things struck a chord for us who know the place but it also strikes a chord because of its authenticity to anyone who doesn't know the place because as it turns turns out Lauren. Herself is from the bay area. And that's one of my touchstones with her is that we're San Francisco Chinese Americans and the San Francisco chinese-american vibes very prevalent travelling in this play. And so I feel a sense of kind of understanding her in that way and I love working on the play because of that I always have from the beginning as an actor actor but now as a director kind of trying to imbue in whatever way possible. My point of view as a person from San Francisco in Chinese American. That's one one of the more fun aspects of doing this particular directing job for me. We're talking with actor and director Beatty Wong. You played one of the main characters. Won- Chang who's the coach of the Beijing University team and two previous productions when you step out of Plano character and directing that character. What does that transformation like in terms? News of your perspective on the role and the overall production. This is super interesting. Because you know you you just. It's a completely different point review. You have a much more global view of the play the production and the other actors and so for me. My intimacy with the character plays a role in my relationship with the actor playing the role that I once played because I have a kind of shorthand with the part that allows rosemead kind of cut through some some things that I have to be very careful about cutting through because it actor should have his own process and find something out in his own time and in its on rhythm but sometimes I can have insight into a moment for example One of the things that actors do play like Lauren's which is written with a great great deal of humor is to try to find where the humor for that particular actor is but I can also say you know I I know per pack really honey careful that you don't say this is how I would've boy if someone's actually says those words which I think is something you'd see in a movie. There's something like that. That's just bristle at the idea of it. The Pasadena playhouse. Like a lot of big arts institutions in and around. La Has a core audience that core audience. Because I've been to a lot of plays they're older and it's white. This is a play about a Chinese American experience. So how do you make sure that you are authentic to a new audience. Audience Chinese Americans who are coming to the plows and also give what I'll call the older white audience a perspective into a story that they may not have access to any other way humanity. You know it's like it's like eliminating humanity for a person of any color or any age is undeniable and when you strike strike accord emotionally or with humor and Lauren does both of these inheriting very deftly. Then you can reach anybody. I will also say Lauren. kyw Is a bit bit of a kind of gateway playwright. She really can draw people into a seemingly specific storyline of location and culture churchgoer and open it up through like I said before humor emotion to make it seem completely universal. I mean universal is a kind of a buzz word that people like to use but it really is true that people can relate to the play because there is simply human beings and they have feelings and aspirations and dreams and and Disappointments just like the characters and displayed regardless of their race or their age. We're talking with actor and director. Beatty Wong Nina Jacobson. WHO's the producer of the movie? Crazy Rich Asians told me the story of shopping. That movie around was met with a lot of rejection and in not one but two instances was told by a potential attention. Funder does she have to be Asian. Yeah the movie got made but still there. was that resistance to this idea. That people wouldn't be interested or studios wouldn't want to finance a movie like that how have you seen the evolution of the willingness and TV and film. I think theaters a little bit ahead of Hollywood in some regards possibly to start challenging their own assumptions about what people will and will not show up. Yeah I love that story that you've told that I have heard before because you know I really wish she would out these people say their names heterogenous because that that's kind of shameful and couldn't be more ignorant and clearly as a result has been proven to be very out out of touch so she dodged a bullet with those people because they didn't understand the value of of what she had. You know as far as how things have evolved. I do see you know having been in business for many decades. Now I feel that the needle shifts and I feel a difference in myself and I'd the difference in my ease and interfacing with the industry and with my own career and yet I still feel the same frustrations partly because of conversations positions like this. So that stories like this that you've told and I'm encouraged at the same time to kind of continue to kind of push the envelope. I guess just because the encouragement is is is greater than it was when I was first starting out when I was first starting out. Encouragement did not manifest itself in multi millions of dollars in much smaller kind of achievement. That you would take delight in but now this is a real kind of formidable contribution that Asian Americans are making to the mainstream media in a way that we haven't been able to do so before so that's got to be encouraging and when you say there's a parallel development and opportunity in frustration with the way that stories about LGBTQ characters are told. Do they track each other as one ahead head of the other or are they all part of the same conversation. You're part of the same conversation. But they're very they had their unique traits and their unique differences and and as a person who is a member of both both of these communities. I feel similarities and the parallels in my life always as an actor I also feel the unique differences and you know the the one the thing that people often point out that I can't really hide my Asian nece my Asian. This is always here and I am if I want to hide my sexuality and some people believe that that creates a different dynamic in the media when it comes to any number of issues that arise as a result of being part of these these marginalized communities. They're just different nuances that that come into play because of that Fundmental difference we talked about crazy. Rich changes we didn't talk about another movie that I was a landmark and that is the farewell with Aquafina us. And you're doing something with aquafina coming up that I have shot. The first season about Phoenix show show called AQUAFINA. Is Nora from Queens. A really funny show for comedy Central Half Hour Comedy for Comedy Central and had the time of my life doing that. That is airing January and fairly exciting about that because she is a force of nature. She's really really having her moment and rightly so because not only because she extremely talented and and appealing to just mandy demographics of people but she is a very smart producer and a very smart generator of her own material and of her own community and and is very intentionally creating Kind of power situation. In which which women directors women artists there were women everywhere on the set in a way that was so incredibly refreshing. And you realize that it takes a person listen to actually make it happen at this stage of the conversation. Thanks so much for coming in. Thank you so much thanks. The song is the director of the great leap. It's at the Pasadena playhouse. Through December first up next on the frame the composers of the new apple. TV plus series about. Emily Dickenson give a modern spin to a classic story. I'm John Horn and this is the frame apple. TV plus recently launched with a slate of original TV shows including Dickinson. It stars Hailee Steinfeld as the poet Emily Dickinson and the rapper wiz Khalifa as the personification of death even though it's a period story the soundscape includes contemporary pop songs and based heavy score the frames. Jonathan Shift spoke with the show's composers about the first piece of music they submitted we did something So strange and so out there and they're like Oh we love it and we're like okay. I think this is going to be fun. Yeah we thought those main titles would be the first and last thing that we've done this show. My name is Chris and I'm from composer German lace. We can call me so FIA and I'm also a composer and performer summer. It was pretty random like we had no idea was coming in and we just got a call from Apple. I think November of last year. Saying saying that. There's this new strain show about Emily Dickinson but with kind of like a modern since score and I think we kind of thought that they might have been pulling our leg because we're like yes. Hello this is apple you know like what but turns out that I guess they really liked what they'd heard and thought that we would be good for the show because of our different sensibilities instabilities US exciting maybe a little intimidating just because a lot of the stuff that they were putting in his temp music whereas like inspiration is really well known pop music music. That's out now and produced by like three Swedish people months of time and thousands of dollars or like how are we going to compete with the. Yeah so you know it was kind of a tall order to have a score that can compete with tracks that it but then also live in Emily's world job NBC kind of carry all these different ways at the same time. I'm madly in love with you. Is If someone else I guess actually busy. I'll kill. You can't kill him his death. I'm in love with that. We can see some of the statistics of people listening. And actually there's One of the themes that the death theme and we you keep saying that that's the most shows aimed and it's such a compliment because they think people think it's an actual hip hop track and then they find out it's us and I love that. I wonder what people's reactionist God side one thing that we've kind of played around a bit on other projects. But it's never really been at the forefront was using Sofia's voices and actual instrument A different texture just to kind of make it somewhere interesting and his soon as they heard it. They're like wis that's amazing and now it's become like the biggest thing that we keep getting more. Sophie Marceau People's her singing voice is really kind of become like the inner thoughts of emily in a way so I didn't really think about the fact that there could be the psych further connection between tween the vocals and you know the way she's feeling internally and you know invoices kind of something that's been used to express oneself since at the beginning of time and I feel like especially there's well there's one episode nine has one called the our death which is interesting because it it starts off with being within a setting where you would hear a vocal piece. Because they're in a church but then by the end of it. She has an account one of the many encounters with death and it becomes like her eulogy in a way the foreigners to and fro. I feel like we've worked together enough at this point where we've become really good being critics to ourselves and trusting each other so if someone says something's not working leisurely trust that you know I think at least once every project there's always a bit of an explosion and maybe a door get slammed or something but but on the flip side it also. I think that there's been times when if IAN started a Q.. And he's like no this garbage like let's start from scratch. I'll go in and it'll be like no we can salvage this and the new transformed into something different. And that's why it's nice to have the two of us because it's like something that Ian or that I would have thought was a complete disaster at the beginning can evolve into something that actually works. We I work at home studios so we're literally in the same room for every single Q.. And every single moment sitting at the same mm-hmm desk and we end up spending a lot of hours in the studio together. Yeah I mean I've been trying to get on almost like a nine to five schedule lately. But he's just in this crazy world of scoring like you might get an email full of two pages of notes at ten pm that are due the next morning by branch. Whatever so you? I don't really have a choice. What happened last night? There's a lot that I think needs to get caught up on especially in the age of streaming coming especially when it comes to the fact that it's so hard for us to release soundtracks as composers and you know like even terms of you know royalties and there's there's is a lot of questions in the air that her talked about every new project. It's like so how the Rights GonNa work in this one. Once upon a time people would be like okay. Well the royalties. Are you know at least for us. It's like we kind of talk about this all the time like Oh to have been a TV composer in the nineties. You know because you see all these like TV composers opposers from the eighties and nineties. And it's like welcome to my Malibu home with my lake too studios. Meanwhile it's like. I'm just excited that to make like any kind of living doing this but at the same time it's like the same way that it is spotify and apple music and with all of these kind of extreme platforms. Is that people just expect for things to be free so when people booked for things to be free and when music is something that's so abstract it's really hard to put a price point on it because you know if you're buying a painting you're like okay. Well you can see the materials IOS and whereas with us it's like it's all just time and how do you quantify tired and that'll we'll do it for today. Remember you can follow us on social media where at the frame and also keep up with us with our weekly newsletter which goes out every Thursday you could sign up at the frame dot org slash newsletter. I'm John Horn at the MoD broadcast center at K._p._C._C.. We'll see you back here tomorrow.
The Power of Words
"Welcome to the world on wednesday january twenty seven. My name is john mason. Thank you for joining us. Words words words. Have you ever wondered about the power of words. Words are at the heart of special moments in our lives asking the girl. The guy out for date committee and marriage was saying yes to a job. Emily dickinson wrote this words. A would is dead when it is said some say i say it just begins to live that day. I'll be exploring more about the power of words shortly but first let me note that the word on wooden stairs a ministry in the anglican connection which is not just for anglicans. Everyone is welcome. Furthermore you may want to register for upcoming online conference details can be found at. www anglican connection dot com. However you need to act now for registration closes at midnight. This thursday january twenty eight registered for twenty five dollars at www anglican connection dot com. And now we have a reading from the bible reading from the gospel of saint mark chapter one versus twenty one through twenty eight. They went to cabrini and win the sabbath cane. He entered the synagogue and taught. They were astounded at his teaching for. He taught them as one having authority and not as the scribes just then. There was in their synagogue. A man with an unclean spirit and he cried out. What have you do with us. Jesus of nazareth destroy us. I know who you are. The holy one of god but jesus rebuked him saying be silent and come out of him and the unclean spirit convulsing him and crying with a loud voice came out of him. They were all amazed and they kept on asking one another. What is this a new teaching with authority. He commands even the unclean spirits and they obey him at once. His fame began to spread through out the surrounding region of galilee. The word of the lord. Thanks be to god. Words words words we're constantly bombarded by them from social media email and text messages al phones television and movies. And now you're hearing words from me. Have you ever wondered why words are so powerful. Words on the tongue comedian can make us laugh but woods on. The lips of the cynic can cut down and demolish the words. I love you bring the thrill of joy and hope two couples in love but the words we've done all we can from the medical specialist in times of sickness grips with fia and a sense of impending loss. Emily dickinson wrote this of words. A word is dead when it is said some say say just begins to live that day come with me to mock chapter one versus twenty one and twenty two. They went to capone him and when the sabbath came jesus entered the synagogue and taught they were astounded at. He's teaching fay told them. As one having authority and not as the scribes. Jesus regularly attended the church of his day. The jerusalem temple or the local synagogue in towns and villages mark tilting. The jesus began his public ministry in the town of companion in the northern shore of lake. Galilee we can can begin to pick to the scene. Cheeses was the guest preacher that day and the local synagogue and as he spoke everyone setup and listened the he taught with authority. People could see that he wasn't like their usual speakers. The scribes describe so dependent on the authority of others with diffident and cautious and beacuse and lacking clarity but jesus was different. He spoke as one who knew hand what he was talking about. A spoke with personal command of his subject. He spoke with clarity. Has he. Talked of god and humanity of righteousness and hope he is. Here is was stunned. That never heard anything like it. Before and not. Surprisingly he caused a stir but there was another fence hit to jesus words in verse. Twenty three we read just then. There was in their synagogue. A man with an unclean spirit and he cried out. What have you to do with us. Jesus of nazareth have you come to destroy us. Mark doesn't hesitate to record this voice of protest. Jesus words didn't necessarily bring harmony and peace. Opposition came from a demon possessed man who up until that moment had been quite happy to be in the conversation but that day was different. This demon possessed man was confronted with a greater power. And he knew it. I know who you are. The holy one of god while some will dismiss box assessment as myth saying doesn't fit with modern psychiatry. We can note that medical science today suggest that some psychotic behavior occurs for organic reasons brain tumors drug addiction or even genetic factors indeed in the same way that we bring prayer in medicine to bear on cancer. We can bring prayer and psychotic together when a person is mentally ill. What is clear however that there are some mentally and emotionally sick people. Today who liked this man are in the grip of alien forces and whether we regard these forces at real or imaginary they are irresistible as irresistible as the impulse that drove that man to call out that day. Sometimes mentally disturbed people are aware of supernatural realities in a way that most people are not. This man recognized. Jesus christ the son of god not even the disciples at work on up to this. Consider jesus response in verse twenty five but jesus rebuked him saying be silent and come out of him. Be silent is literally be muzzled or colloquially shot up jesus wouldn't accept the compulsory testimony to his divinity given by evil powers rather he wants our voluntary recognition that he is both god and man and so he ordered the spirit to be quite and to come out of the man and notice what happened and the unclean spirits throwing him into convulsions and crying out with a loud voice came out of him. The spirit obeyed. There's only one word for that power power the kind with never seen not even in churches today that claim they have the power to heal marks focused report here. Powerfully conveys god's authority energy and vitality evident in jesus words role amazed and they kept on asking one another. What is this a new teaching with authority. He commands even the unclean spirits and they obey him at once he's fame began to spread throughout the surrounding region of galilee. Jesus words and actions were unprecedented. They confirmed what the crowds have begun to suspect that he was invested. With a unique jesus was not only a powerful speaker. He commanded extraordinary power with these words. Indeed as mark's gospel unfolds when invited to see that into our world of darkness and despair. A light of hope has come. It awakens us to the reality that jesus can't be ignored. The voices around us may try to shut him up but he will have the final say every one of us needs to treat him seriously. Why is it then that we are so often silent about al faith. Isn't it true that often we are afraid. Afraid of what others will think of us afraid of what it might mean for our job. Afraid for the word of the gospel that it would work. We need to remember the power of words. In god's hands he is used words to reveal himself to us. It's the combination of words and the work of his spirit. That changes and transforms lives our father in heaven. Howlett beat your name. Your kingdom come your will be done on earth as in heaven. Give us today our daily bread. Forgive us our sense as we forgive those who san against us lead us not into temptation but deliver us from evil for the kingdom the power and the glory are yours now and forever. I'm in a prayer for this week. Lord god the strength of all who put their trust in you massively accept our prayers and because through the weakness about mortal nature we can do nothing. Good without you gratis. The help of your grace so that in keeping your commands we may please you both in will and indeed through jesus christ our lord Men lettuce pry sovereign lord. God direct with your wisdom and power. The leaders of the nation's lord give them such wisdom and understanding that they may restrain wickedness and vice and uphold justice and truth through. Jesus christ our lord aman god the creator and preserver of all humankind. We humbly pray for all who are in any kind of trouble sorrow sickness anxiety or need we particularly pray for those who lost loved ones through covid nineteen. We thank you that a vaccine has now been produced and pray that it will be made available both speedily fairly so that all peoples nations may benefit. We also continue to pray for people who suffer because of injustice poverty and powerlessness lord enable us to share with others. The material things that they need most of all in your great marcy bring comfort and hope through the good news of the gospel of jesus christ who died and rose to save us and give us meaning and hope forever. We ask all this through. Jesus christ our lord ahmen a prayer for peace god of the nation's whose kingdom rules overall have mercy on our broken and divided world. Shed abroad your piece in the hearts of all people and banished from denver spirit that makes for conflict so that all races and people may learn to live as members of one family in obedience to your laws through jesus christ man and now may the peace of god which passes all understanding. Keep your hearts and minds in the knowledge and love of god and of his son. Jesus christ our lord and the blessing of god almighty the father son and the holy spirit be with you and remain with you always man people involved. In today's podcast. A john mason speaker and writer andrew pearson the dane and senior minister of the cathedral church of the advent birmingham alabama and catherine jacob a member of the cathedral ministry team the introductory and concluding music is from the cathedral under the direction of dr. Frederick t do. And zachary hicks the him. Praise my soul the king of heaven sung by the choir of sedan andrews cathedral sydney under the direction of roscoff prayers drawn from an australian prayer book. Nineteen seventy eight. The bible readings from the new vice. Sandra version please let us know if you have a question or a comment about the podcast. We'd love to hear from you and remember to register for the angleton connection online conference at. Www dot anglican connection dot com.
Carolyn Forch and Fernando Valverde read The Balada of New England
"This is the poetry magazine podcast. I'm Don share editor of Poetry magazine and I'm Lindsay Arbit- managing editor this week. We spoke with poet. Translator and Human Rights Advocate Caroline fourche for Shea has translated the work of Spanish poet Fernando Valverde for several years they met in Mexico again in Columbia and finally in Granada Spain. Where Valverde's from finance and I have a kind of confidence in each other and so this translation emerged out of a deep friendship as well as a collaboration and he is considered by his peers. One of the finest poets writing in the Spanish language two day we asked Caroline for Shea was she thought Valverde asked her to translate the Book and she said You should ask him when we are talking about a pile lie caroline for Jill. Dong to her she shoeseast Jill. She saw social poet in the bureau. Sans I'm for Diary Song. She is considered to be the most beloved American in the Spanish. Speaking around Valverde's new book. America we'll be published this spring. He was born in the same city as fanatical Garcia Lorca. And he's very much of that city as poets. No for the Rico Garcia Lorca. One of his most important works was the poet in New York which was written in the aftermath of his journey to America. And I really think that this manuscript America is a sort of poet. New York by Ferdinando vulgarity. Written many many decades later Valverde has now lived in the United States for six years. He teaches poetry at the University of Virginia Grim. I flips arrive What Impacting me was the great thing shown between the best on the war. Seeing sub About this country this is the country in Dad has done the most for freedom but do could be at a party or in a chart and somebody and serves as a gun and start shooting and this is the main topic of my book America. Here's Caroline for Shea reading a poem from the Book and Translation. It's called the ballot of New England. Love is anterior to life Emily Dickinson two roads diverged in a yellow would Robert Frost after the see the whole see the Cold Land? The icy wind that comes from Nova Scotia and is a snow crab in the boots of a Maine fisherman who comes home for dinner. A bowl of hot soup returns the Rozina to his lips. Then he watches a log burned in the fireplace. Only fire has learned to climb on the cold. It's not that fierce for someone who has seen the C- rising in a storm the northern shores are a lament. The crying descends through. It's gorgeous until it touches the surface of the waves on the rocks. It's mark remains as in the faces of those who have suffered pain leaves. It's ruin in the northern ports it dawn's early and life is as ancient as an old sea-lion this is the shore of the first colonists from the oldest island in the world. They came chasing opportunities following the ocean currents while they prayed they came because they followed the word of God to a rocky shore touched by tears over the same ocean from whence they came. They brought the songs the nets their words they brought the hook and their churches but also sin. The Devil pursues his own opportunities. The bodies of the witches of New England are hanging they hang before the multitude a few steps from Salem harbor where fishermen set out each night in the direction of the land of their birth in the northern ports. Life comes back with the smell of fish. It's New England time. The Sun comes like an old puritan and it rises over the ocean and gives leave to the flight of birds it lights a window in amherst where the eyes of a woman contemplate the world love is anterior to life but it departs with the birds of the dawn through her window. The Sun comes on the footprints of men. It comes over the trees. It is reflected in the lakes that allows its roots. Strictly without going off course with a will only faith can provide the faith that arrived with the first ships to populate mountains but with it also came indecision and doubt the east and the West watchful eyes races hooks Sundays even continents without lines on the maps but also the maps with their borders freedom. The roads that diverge in yellow would new England's time has come. The Sun comes from the east like a ship sent forth by the future. One of the things. That's so appealing to me an interesting me about this And the other of Valverde's is that actually unlike Lorca who kind of was in New York You know kind of absorbing and critiquing life in say Manhattan Big City. Here's a poet who's wandering farther afield in our country and on this continent and in that respect to my mind. He's more like Henry David. Thoreau because he's kind of narrating things. Not Strictly as a visitor nor strictly as somebody who's organically a part of a landscape but but somebody who as kind of a member of the human race attentive to what's there and what's happening in the in the history of things so that in a certain sense what's lovely about both the original poem and its translation? Here is that in a lot of ways. It's as if it could have been written by an American in New England. It has some real qualities overtones of frost and a place like am her store or main but it somebody who can look at this with a with his own eye and thinking his own thoughts that introduction where the poet is talking about. What's both grade about the country? And what isn't that sort of mixture is in as well the diction and language at the pump both in the Spanish and in English which is why it's such a wonderful translation it's not ambivalent it's sort of two things at once. Sort of an enriched way of feeling and and envisioning things and it to my mind quite remarkable that any poet wherever he might be from or she might be front can't exorb- so many of the LAN landscapes vibrations from history in this way and that part is I think something that comes a little bit from the Dickinson there too. It's like vibration and in Dickinson but very rooted in a certain landscape. You know it's like you don't picture Emily Dickenson in Hawaii or something you know and so this question of the movement of the poem through a place and it's time which does come from. Lorca to is really is really rich here. Yeah I love the emphasis to on the movement of the natural elements in this poem in addition to the Movement of its people so the fact that the poem starts out with this sort of metaphor of the icy wind coming across both the see the whole city and the cold land then comes down from Nova Scotia and then the metaphor is. It is a snow crab in the boots of the main fisherman. I love that image of the of the wind. You know sort of piercing you with its claw like snowcap would and then the metaphor continues for that whole Stanza and later on the sun comes in that. The movement of the Sun plays a huge part in this poem but it set up to be the sun. Comes like an old puritan so that it's traveled the sea to come. You know sort of experience this freedom that they believe is possible in the US. And I think what's really interesting about this poem as you were saying on. Is this sort of vibrating tension. That's underneath the whole thing. The idea that these people came for freedom but they're very arrival caused all sorts of genocide and pain for the people who were already there which are never explicitly mentioned in this palm. But there's this tension between you know what people come for and what also comes with that travel so the poem says later on with it also came indecision and out the east and the West watchful eyes races hooks Sundays even continents without lines on the maps but also the maps with their borders freedom that sort of juxtaposition between borders and freedom being part of part and parcel of what the country is all about for better and for much worse. There's also a kind of generosity in the poem and that to me is like something you find in Lorca that even under duress there's humanity and warmth just shy of hope maybe but to understand that this is the shore of the first colonists from the oldest island in the world. They came chasing opportunities and when they come. They're praying and they came because the poem reminds us they followed the word of God to a rocky shore touched by tears over the same ocean from whence they came. You know the the tragedy that you mentioned which is written all over our nation and its people and live today can be not offset but it can mean. Simultaneously exists with the possibility of something better because just as those people came following the currents that brought them here with their songs and nets and word so too. Does everybody else come here. As support himself has and so to me they bring these things with them and the poem says very sort of deftly but also sin. You know that kind of travel which is a necessity and a function of so much. It's deeply ingrained in humanity even just the courageousness of making a long journey comes. It isn't innocent No matter who does it. The Devil pursues his own opportunities. Which of course can only occur through us. I think at every turn in this particular palm. It's sort of connects all the different points On the landscape but also in the time in history that's been created or written over on. What was there before sort of comes to life here and it's very apt to say love is anterior to life. I don't know it's sort of an eerie full heart that you can hear in these lines. I was really struck by that notion of time in this poem to its repeated. You know halfway through the pullman says it's New England time which is kind of strange syntax right kind of suggests. Oh we're on New England time as in it's like a time zone or something or time moves that's own pace in New England. Something like that. And it's sort of both geographical and temporal zone of its own is what it seems to suggest. And the poem itself seems to take place in all these multiple different time periods. The original colonizing moment. You know the fishermen with his snow crab could be at any point the Salem witch trials. There's so much happening in this poem and so at the very end in the last couplet where it says. New England's time has come that becomes very sort of ambiguous. Is it saying every time the Sun Rises? It's New England's time again you know. It's it's their time of day or is it saying it's time for us to make a new journey or a new sort of originating moment that this poem has sort of repeated over and over again it's it's very suggestive to me that there's a a moment coming like the ship being sent forth from the future that a moment is coming. That will change everything. But we don't seem to quite now what that moment is. Here's an excerpt of Fernando VALVERDE reading the Balata of New England in its original language. You can hear all three of Valverde spawns in Spanish online at Poetry magazine Dot Org displays. Delmyra that does Walmart Theater Afria? It'll be allowed. Located Gathers Bangla Terra. Youssou Congress closing ne-nevertheless Batas impasse color of the main cut. Like this gas up by Elefsina. Leeann Taylor the world will colossal lawyers display of about on thrown latine Mania Celo Foia Passover Frio North Seattle adult but again obvious live and done do Caroline Fourche as fifth collection of poetry is just out from Penguin. It's called in the lateness of the world. Fernando Valverde's collection. America will be out this spring. He's the author of several poetry collections. Including the insistence of harm. You can read the Bilotta of New England and two other poems by Valverde in the March twenty issue of Poetry magazine or online at Poetry magazine dot work. If you're not yet a subscriber to the magazine and you really should be one for a limited time. We're offering podcast listeners. A special rate of twenty dollars. That's twenty dollars for a full year of the freshest voices in contemporary poetry featured in eleven book-length issues as well as free digital access on our mobile APP visit Poetry magazine Dot Org Slash podcast offer to subscribe. That's Poetry magazine. Dot Org Slash podcast offer. We'll have another episode for you next week or you can get all the march episodes all at once in the full length. Podcast on soundcloud. Let us know what you thought of this program. Please rate and review us on Apple podcasts. Or if you listen another way email us at podcast at Poetry Foundation Dot Org. We'd love to hear your thoughts. The Poetry magazine podcast is recorded by Ed Herman and produced by Rachel. James the theme music comes from the Claudia Quintet I'm Lindsay Carpet and I'm don share. Thanks for listening.
Pop-up Podcast in Ojai - Poetry in Nature
"Hello world this is maureen from quarantine and this is the pop up. Podcast coming to you live from ohio. Can you hear the birds. I was just told that they are little red bellied blackbirds and i'm gonna put a picture of those There's a flock of them in the tree here and i'll put a picture video of them there on the blog and on the website lou. Here they come. They're they're circling around. And so i was guided here today and to discuss the essence of being present and i have I brought was guided to bring the burke. Emily dickinson and there. I just opened it too. Because i thought let's go organic and go how we're guided as to this spot by a fellow beautiful soul spirit and here i am and it's gorgeous. There's some water in front. We're here in ohio looking at mountains. The birds are plenty. And it's gorgeous. Do these cool little pop up podcasts. And know that all is right in the world right here right now and the few people that we see our social distancing and maybe they're riding bikes but they have their masks on And and there's a great sense of reverence for nature here and again you can hear the birds. I'll be quiet for a little bit. And a beautiful soldiers walked by and gave me a nod and there's just all kinds of great energy here so here the birds and now the sun is setting so that's a glorious thing to be on this beautiful tree. I'm underneath a beautiful tree with water in france and all colors all kinds of colors trees and the mountains often distance and you can see the clouds and the in really born like not clouds but the fog Above the mountain tops there and the blue sky. And i hear i am. I felt guided to simply keep it real simple today. Come here to beautiful ohi and do our podcast. And on the way i opened as i sat down i. I opened this page by emily dickinson. And it's the essence of of where we're going today and or everyday really in every moment and every moment is a new moment as we talk about and so we take a deep breath and enjoy the beautiful area here in the oxygen the birds and the plants and the sound of kids laughing playing off in the distance and so the line is i find ecstasy in living. The mere sense of living is joy. Enough and i do have a podcast on joy One of the one of the episodes. Enjoy if you'd like to check that out and it's all about again Keeping it real simple in fact there is an episode on. kiss which is keeping it simple and again. Here's the beautiful. Birds again flocking around that. I was introduced to on the way in and i'll send a little video and a picture of those two just circling and and saying hello as are the The flowers and the good energy here and the folks that come and go by and the kids and It's just out of a story book really. So it's the you can see the color of the light and it goes back to that one saying i'll close with the saying again to keep it real simple as the sun sets it's like a beautiful amber gold and as my daughter likes to say it's a golden color and to really embrace the day the now as they say the moments and now and to breathe that and because as we know it's all about living in the solution and we learned so much as i say from nature and from a listening and to really be present enough to be aware of our fences and to get our ego out of the way enough to even be there to see the the the individual that was in my vicinity there who guided me here and social distancing of course but in on the way pointed out the beautiful flock of birds so i'm being introduced here in nature in ohio to the that it's if you will it feels like the soul and the spirit of this area you know and to revere that and the even the very color of the sky now in in knowing it's winter two it's going to be interesting to come back here and see different changes of seasons going on and To see the colors of the trees and the different birds that come around to. And i'll be quiet for just a bit as you can hear the ambiance as i look. There's gorgeous just real raw organic nature three sixty degree of that. I'm surrounded by and it's so nice to be able to in the midst of quarantine so many people can't get out and there's a lot of people suffering and hurting in the world and so i in in other words. If you can't necessarily get out i bring this to you and perhaps you can find online elsewhere to the visuals and again. I'll post them as well and to find. There's so many websites to that you would bring you back to that place. And there's great peace there and great joy and in fact i'm gonna come back here with the bicycle and doozy. They've got a cool. Little bike paths going through here. And there's all kinds of good energy good good folk out here on this day while the sunsets and i see the silhouette of the beautiful trees and the silhouettes again. I love to see during the sunsets and again in every direction and again it real simple real rogers like this area. I've found which is so. I love that it's it's it's not If you will it's really raw organic. And i know again so many people are in that place now. a lot of people suffering from anxiety and from depression. And so again. I always say it so important to rather than going backwards or thinking about you. Know what we've been through or again the fear and rightly so there's a lot to be afraid of in the world but the fear of what will be it's about embracing where we are right here right now and that's why i talk about chicago and yoga a lot too and opening ourselves up for the infinite possibilities of life and as saying says have no fear for the future for it will take care of itself and obviously again as i say. It's a good idea to have some food in the fridge and be realistic but again to embrace this moment where our feet are we are. Breath is and then to really listen and to see people enough to get out of our own way as they go by and nod and smile and send out the good energy of the weakness here in quarantine and own ways to and to really listen and there's some people off in the distance celebrating over in the midst of the with the woods. Here very woodsy you know not too isolated and but enough to be real and authentically present in nature which is so important for us. Not just you know organically for the immune system but to be present. A psychologically emotionally mentally spiritually and physically and to say okay. Thank you to come from that place of gratitude. Instead of i know so many people thinking thinking thinking and wondering and it's about letting it go letting go and letting it go again and embracing what is an and Again filling ourselves with the love and then sending out. I look around three sixty to the beautiful horizon and and I love a friend of mine. Says keep your eyes along the horizon. Words there's something about just Staying present and and balanced and look at the balance to on the horizon wherever you are and the balance in the sky and on the mountain tops and and where we're at and to embrace that and i'll be quiet a little bit here you can hear the i listen to the silence. Listen to nature and the birds. They're saying hello. And so it's all about again the perspective and the perception and keeping it real simple and so. I just wanted to do a quick maureen from quarantine. Pop up podcast here in. Oh hi and send out the beautiful energy on a global scale the life force the great she into the quantum field right here and right now to that in and now again and now again and You know there's music too. There's a rhythm to to the entire area to newsday's cute. Little kid just went by an endless hopping. Almost like the bunnies that i just saw. There's a rhythm that we're all marching to. We're all when we're really in tune with life and nature and we get out of our own way enough to be present and to send that out. And i think it it does it starts with lee as the saying says let it begin with me and rather than thinking. It's all You know somebody's going to supply us with this peace of mind and this place that that is within us We and again. I like to meditate and through the meditation again. that's how i found myself. Lo and behold here and again with the maureen from corn team. Cop up podcast. Here in gorgeous ohio and i think i saw another one too and then that's how i was guided to the water here too and i see a cute little cherubs going by and just a a just some gorgeous spirits and souls that we sense a you know that there were all and tune and even the trees have their own life if you if you In fact i should do a specific not should but we'll do a specific episode on trees and nature itself in the life within Because it's real when we get align ourselves with that vibration that energy energy that einstein talked about in the science. They're in so. I breathe it in again. The beautiful anxiety energy and keep it simple and send it out and again on cute little puppies going by and all kinds of little animals and just knowing. I'll i'll leave your and have my beautiful little cup of coffee and my vegan meal and and it's all about the keeping it simple joseph for this day just today and to give yourselves to feed yourselves healthy foods like food and medicine and and give yourself the beautiful fresh air and the sunshine. And if you can't get out to give yourself the love and i send it out again. The love will will To shower that all over the world and again to lift my arms up to and send that out. And as i do i even see a plane way off in the distance and just you know we can send it out when we think in terms of even technology You know it's everywhere. It's not just You know nature in other words. We can come from a place of love. And that's how i'm doing the podcast through this know beautiful Some genius who created the the. That gave us the wherewithal to have this podcast. I have a computer to have a microphone and to be grateful for everything and to find the balance again. Between as i said the look off and see in the air the airplanes and to find the balance and to be grateful for that too and to find the balance between the the machinery if you will and the and the in the technical aspects of life and then the the greenery the machinery and the greenery and finding the balance there in and that's What i'm doing as an. i'm a libra. Not that i'm all about that. But it's about the the the scales and the balance and are the art. Finding you know the light and the dark and The yin and the yang if you will and moving Each forward with each wrath each moment and and allowing that new beginning and and here we are in the new year. And i again send that new beautiful. Each moment is new. it doesn't have to be every annually. It's every day one day at a time and that's it one breath at a time so i'll keep it simple as this gorgeous sun goes down here in the mountains. I see the beautiful colors in the sky. The sky is like an aquamarine color and just gorgeous pink clouds. There's pain clouds and then just the trees and again the we embrace the water. And there's you know when we look at the earth and the wind and the water and the elements we go to the elements and it's very You can. it's something that can keep us grounded. There is a thing called grounding to and and that's i can. I'll do a podcast on that as well I suggest that also For those of you who are interested in you know again as we talk about staying in the solution so with that said have a beautiful view. Beautiful moment right here right now and always and sending out the love on the global scale the life force right here right now and breathing that in and sending it out and so i'll close again with the line i mentioned earlier because it's kind of a cool thing to do to get to go to the place of the solution to even read words. I love words and the arts. I always say go to the creative go to the arts and we learn that to the creative essence to through nature Look at nature. Look at that you know how we can teach us and animals. And so i see the animals going by here. Different little bunny. Rabbits putt. by there's little doggies out here and squirrels and all kinds of wildlife out here and it's nice to be in the midst of it all and know that always well right here right now and breathes it in again and listen to the silence and i thank you for listening. This is maureen from quarantine and the pop up. Podcast here in beautiful ohi california. I'll close with those beautiful words. I mentioned earlier by emily dickinson. Always kind of cool to go to go to the arts. Go to the poetry so much great writing out there in the world and the arts and so the line is i find ecstasy in living. The mere sense of living is joy enough. Thank you for listening. This is maureen brum quarantine pop up podcast coming at your remotely from ohio california and don shine in the light