18 Burst results for "Emily Baz Lon"

"emily bazelon" Discussed on KQED Radio

KQED Radio

09:42 min | 5 months ago

"emily bazelon" Discussed on KQED Radio

"Is fresh AIR and if you're just joining us my guest is Emily Bazelon we're talking about her new article in The New York Times magazine which is called will Americans lose their right to vote in the pandemic of lot of the article is about the expansion of mail in ballots for this election during the pandemic and the political opposition and the financial obstacles that may prevent it from happening on as massive a scale as it could so am I you know we're we're talking about expanding voting by mail but if the state to garner expand vote by mail they'll be relying on the US postal service which is projecting a thirteen billion dollar shortfall by the end of their fiscal year in September the postal service in the treasury department have been negotiating over ten billion dollar line of credit that's part of the corona virus relief package the president trump has threatened to block future funding unless the postal service meets his demands meanwhile a new post master general was just named who's a major Republican donor and a trump donor and ally so what is trump demanding of the postal service trump has been having a feud with the postal service for awhile now he is demanding that they raise their rates for packages and according to administration officials of this is been reported by major news outlets trump is especially taking aim at Amazon which is owned by Jeff Bezos Bezos is also the owner of the Washington post so according to reports in various newspapers when trump gets angry about a Washington post article about his administration that he doesn't like he starts to get mad at the idea that the post office in his view it's not charging Amazon enough money to deliver its packages that's the kind of core complaint here so are there problems at the post office is having or might have that could prevent it from delivering and returning mail in ballots for the November election well the post office is warning they're going to run out of money by the end of September if they don't get some help from the federal government and yes in an election that depends heavily on mail in ballots the post office becomes a kind of de facto election administrator so threatening its operations this fall on this crucial time does pose a kind of a threat of its own to the election president trump has been very suspicious of of mail in ballots he's talked about the possibility of fraud he's also talked about how it would be bad for Republicans so knowing that he's not a fan of mail in ballots in that he thinks it might work against him or against his party is is like withholding funding possibly a way for him to make it less possible or less easy to go to a more widespread use of mail in ballots could this be like a political tool I mean I think it would have that effect whether or not he's thinking about it that way to sort of close the loop of al the the post offices charges for packages the most obvious actually runs a profit on its package delivery service that's not the financial problem that the post office has the post office also points out as do lots of other people that if they have a huge rate hike I mean trump has asked them to double or even quadruple their rates for packages well if that happens the post office will lose a lot of business to UPS to FedEx and even to Amazon's own package delivery services so there's a kind of problem with the market here that trump does not seem to see since the end of the fiscal year in September it's so close to the November election and if trump follows through on his threat to withhold funding the post office would be hard hit just before the election just before the expansion of mail in balloting because of the pandemic are there any legal restrictions that you're aware of in threatening to stop funding the post office just a few weeks before a presidential election that's a great question the constitution says that Congress can establish a postal service but it doesn't say it must and so the postal service is basically a voluntary organization that the government performs it's a kind of quasi governmental entity that relies on fees rather than taxes I'm not really sure what legal protection we would have if it went under even up in a precipitous way before the election you know it is also important to point out how much world communities in particular which have supported president trump in the past election would suffer without the post office those are the parts of the country where the post office is often the only provider of mail services and package delivery and we're also talking about the most popular federal agency we have the post office has a ninety percent favorability rating among Americans so the politics of this are odd from the point of view of thinking about trump's appeal to his supporters and the American electorate in general what do we know about Lewis to joy who is the new Postmaster General who's expected to actually take office in mid June he's a big donor to the trump campaign and to other Republican causes he gave more than two million to the trump campaign and other Republican causes since twenty sixteen he's the owner of a real estate and consulting firm in North Carolina and he doesn't have any experience in postal services that would be a big shift for the past twenty years the Postmaster General has been someone who came up through the ranks of the post office and for comparison the current Postmaster General who is leaving Meghan Brennan she started thirty two years ago as a letter carrier so this is a different kind of appointees someone who was a trump ally but who does not have experience as a career professional running at this agency so this throws just a level of uncertainty surrounding Maryland voting I mean there's so much uncertainty who knows and to have this added as more uncertainty right before a really critical presidential election during a pandemic I don't know you're right about creating a great deal of uncertainty there's another way to think about this which is that it's a bargaining chip in the negotiations over our money over funding from Congress we've had this dynamic in the last couple of months where it's Democrats who are trying to protect essential services part of the government this includes the election funding we were talking earlier and Republicans who have been resisting and so sometimes you know when you take an unreasonable position at the beginning of negotiations you force the other side to Russian and say we wait we need that and then something that should be kind of obvious becomes a concession that you're making to the other side and I wonder if that is also informing the dynamic that we're seeing here with the post office the postal service is in financial trouble in part because of competition from private companies like UPS and FedEx but is at the post office supposed to be a kind of public service and even if it loses money isn't it still a public service like is its value measured by whether it's in data makes a profit well I think one of the things that's important that you're getting at is that the postal service has a responsibility to operate in every single corner of the country UPS and FedEx don't have to have storefronts open in tiny communities where there's less business we do expect that from the post office and the other important thing to understand about its finances is that in two thousand and six Congress imposed a responsibility for the post office to fund in advance all of its pensions for seventy five years to come no other government agency has anything like that you look at the Pentagon they have paid a goal for their pension sons not some idea that very far into the future they have to be guaranteed if you took out that additional burden on the finances of the postal service they would not be operating at a loss in other words their annual operating budget and performance is fine is this additional pension burden that they're saddled with that helps explain why they're in so much trouble and the other thing is right now this year they are facing this thirteen billion dollar shortfall in large part because of the pandemic even though people are relying on them for home delivery over all mail service is down by about thirty percent let's take a short break here and then we'll talk some more if you're just joining us my guest is Emily Bazelon her article will Americans lose their right to vote in the pandemic is in the current issue of The New York Times magazine where she's a staff writer we'll talk more after we take a short break this is fresh AIR support for KQED comes from P. G. ende reminding listeners that a week's worth of food and water radio flashlight batteries and first aid kit or a good start in keeping families safe in emergencies learn more at safety action center dot.

Emily Bazelon The New York Times magazine
"emily bazelon" Discussed on KQED Radio

KQED Radio

09:18 min | 5 months ago

"emily bazelon" Discussed on KQED Radio

"Is fresh AIR and if you're just joining us my guest is Emily Bazelon we're talking about her new article in The New York Times magazine which is called will Americans lose their right to vote in the pandemic of the lot of the article is about the expansion of mail in ballots for this election during the pandemic and the political opposition and the financial obstacles that may prevent it from happening on as massive a scale as it could so am I you know we're we're talking about expanding voting by mail but if the states are going to expand vote by mail they'll be relying on the US postal service which is projecting a thirteen billion dollar shortfall by the end of their fiscal year in September the postal service in the treasury department have been negotiating over a ten billion dollar line of credit that's part of the corona virus relief package the president trump has threatened to block future funding unless the postal service meets his demands meanwhile a new post master general was just named who's a major Republican donor and a trump donor and ally so what is trump demanding of the postal service trump has been having a feud with the postal service for awhile now he is demanding that they raise their rates for packages and according to administration officials of this has been reported by major news outlets trump is especially taking aim at Amazon which is owned by Jeff Bezos Bezos is also the owner of the Washington post so according to reports in various newspapers when trump gets angry about a Washington post article about his administration that he doesn't like he starts to get mad at the idea that the post office in his view it's not charging Amazon enough money to deliver its packages that's the kind of core complaint here so are there problems at the post office is having or might have that could prevent it from delivering and returning mail in ballots for the November election well the post office is warning they're going to run out of money by the end of September if they don't get some help from the federal government and yes in an election that depends heavily on mail in ballots the post office becomes a kind of de facto election administrator so threatening its operations this fall on this crucial time does pose a kind of a threat of its own to the election president trump has been very suspicious of of mail in ballots he's talked about the possibility of fraud he's also talked about how it would be bad for Republicans so knowing that he's not a fan of mail in ballots in that he thinks it might work against him or against his party is is like withholding funding possibly a way for him to make it less possible or less easy to go to a more widespread use of mail in ballots could this be like a political tool I mean I think it would have that affect whether or not he's thinking about it that way to sort of close the loop of al the the post offices charges for packages the most obvious actually runs a profit on its package delivery service that's not the financial problem that the post office has the post office also points out as do lots of other people that if they have a huge rate hike I mean trump has asked them to double or even quadruple their rates for packages well if that happens the post office will lose a lot of business to UPS to FedEx and even to Amazon's own package delivery services so there's a kind of problem with the market here that trump does not seem to see since the end of the fiscal year in September it's so close to the November election and if trump follows through on his threat to withhold funding the post office would be hard hit just before the election just before the expansion of mail in balloting because of the pandemic are there any legal restrictions that you're aware of in threatening to stop funding the post office just a few weeks before presidential election that's a great question the constitution says that Congress can establish a postal service but it doesn't say it must and so the postal service is basically a voluntary organization that the government performs it's a kind of quasi governmental entity that relies on fees rather than taxes I'm not really sure what legal protection we would have if it went under even up in a precipitous way before the election you know it is also important to point out how much world communities in particular which have supported president trump in the past election would suffer without the post office those are the parts of the country where the post office is often the only provider of mail services and package delivery and we're also talking about the most popular federal agency we have the post office has a ninety percent favorability rating among Americans so the politics of this are odd from the point of view of thinking about trump's appeal to his supporters and the American electorate in general what do we know about Lewis to joy who is the new Postmaster General who's expected to actually take office in mid June he's a big donor to the trump campaign and to other Republican causes he gave more than two million to the trump campaign and other Republican causes since twenty sixteen he's the owner of a real estate and consulting firm in North Carolina and he doesn't have any experience in postal services that would be a big shift for the past twenty years the Postmaster General has been someone who came up through the ranks of the post office and for comparison the current Postmaster General who is leaving Meghan Brennan she started thirty two years ago as a letter carrier so this is a different kind of appointees someone who was a trump ally but who does not have experience as a career professional running at this agency so this throws just a level of uncertainty surrounding Maryland voting I mean there's so much uncertainty who knows and to have this added as more uncertainty right before a really critical presidential election during a pandemic I don't know you're right about creating a great deal of uncertainty there's another way to think about this which is that it's a bargaining chip in the negotiations over our money over funding from Congress we've had this dynamic in the last couple of months where it's Democrats who are trying to protect essential services part of the government this includes the election funding we were talking earlier and Republicans who have been resisting and so sometimes you know when you take an unreasonable position at the beginning of negotiations you force the other side to Russian and say we wait we need that and then something that should be kind of obvious becomes a concession that you're making to the other side and I wonder if that is also informing the dynamic that we're seeing here with the post office the postal service is in financial trouble in part because of competition from private companies like UPS and FedEx but is at the post office supposed to be a kind of public service and even if it loses money isn't it still a public service like is its value measured by whether it's in data makes a profit well I think one of the things that's important that you're getting at is that the postal service has a responsibility to operate in every single corner of the country UPS and FedEx don't have to have storefronts open in tiny communities where there's less business we do expect that from the post office and the other important thing to understand about its finances is that in two thousand and six Congress imposed a responsibility for the post office defined in advance all of its pensions for seventy five years to come no other government agency has anything like that you look at the Pentagon they have paid a goal for their pension funds not some idea that very far into the future they have to be guaranteed if you took out that additional burden on the finances of the postal service they would not be operating at a loss in other words their annual operating budget and performance is fine is this additional pension burden that they're saddled with that helps explain why they're in so much trouble and the other thing is right now this year they are facing this thirteen billion dollar shortfall in large part because of the pandemic even though people are relying on them for home delivery over all mail service is down by about thirty percent let's take a short break here and then we'll talk some more if you're just joining us my guest is Emily Bazelon her article will Americans lose their right to vote in the pandemic is in the current issue of The New York Times magazine where she's a staff writer we'll talk more after we take a short break this is fresh AIR support for KQ weedy.

Emily Bazelon The New York Times magazine
"emily bazelon" Discussed on KQED Radio

KQED Radio

10:37 min | 11 months ago

"emily bazelon" Discussed on KQED Radio

"Fresh air I'm Terry gross let's get back to my interview with Emily Bazelon a staff writer for The New York Times magazine her latest articles about the war between Congress and the White House over the impeachment inquiry she's also written recently about Attorney General William Barr and is maximalist view of executive power bass line is the Truman Capote fellow for creative writing and law at Yale Law School she's also the author of the book charged the new movement to transform American prosecution and and mass incarceration so let's talk about the impeachment process if the president is impeached in the house then it goes to the Senate for a trial and the trial okay can end in the removal of the president if the president is impatient goes to trial in the Senate the trial would be presided over by the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court John Roberts exactly what would justice Roberts role be in the trial Chief Justice Roberts would be the judge up there with the gavel baking procedural decisions making rulings about witness says about evidence about lawyers making arguments this would amazingly be the first trial that Chief Justice John Roberts would ever preside over he was not a trial court judge before he was appointed to the Supreme Court and so it would be a role that would be a new experience for him as well as an unusual experience for the country so his powers would pertain only to to what what rules were followed and if they were being followed accurately right the Senate would set the rules of the trial and then Roberts would be implementing them I think it's also possible that he could take it upon himself to make some decisions about how procedurally fair he thinks the Senate rules are so he would be playing that role as well and of course people would be judging Chief Justice Roberts about how fair he was being in presiding over these rules and and I think liberals might say he's very conservative you might side therefore with a very conservative point of view or with the trump administration on the other hand hand Tromp have really gone head to head trump called Roberts an absolute disaster after Roberts of held the portable character when president trump criticized a judge and condemn an Obama judge Chief Justice Roberts said we do not have a bomber judges are trump judges bush judges are Clinton judges what we have is an extraordinary group of dedicated judges doing their level best to do equal right to those appearing before them that independent judiciary is something we should all be thankful for so do you have any sense of what chief justice Roberts would be like presiding over a Senate trial still there are two things that are true about Chief Justice John Roberts he is a deeply conservative Supreme Court justice and he also cares a great deal about the legitimacy of the Supreme Court it's called the Roberts court it has his name on it and so there is a way in which she is invested in public approval of the court that is different from any other justice if Chief Justice John Roberts ends up presiding over this impeachment trial he's going to be weighing those two different impulses and sometimes they may be in conflict with each other so we are going to see how all that plays out I cannot imagine that Roberts will relish this role it seems like exactly the kind of thing he would much rather avoid so William Barr is the head of the justice department this is an unprecedented situation there's an impeachment inquiry going on and he is implicated in the inquiry which you could find how he's implicated yeah so William Barr announced that he was opening an inquiry first it was just an administrative review into the origins of the Miller investigation and so this is this rather remarkable notion that the justice department investigators are going to investigate the investigators review the work of intelligence officers people in the FBI about why they were worried about the trump campaign and its ties with Russia before and in the months surrounding the election so this is a really fraught time intelligence agents are getting tips that trump campaign aides are taking dirt about Hillary Clinton from Russians and they're trying to figure out how to investigate someone who's running for the highest office in the land they had to make a lot of very sensitive decisions around that time and now the current Attorney General del bar is going back and effectively second guessing those decisions recently bart turns that administrative review into a criminal inquiry which means the government officials could potentially face criminal charges for the decisions they made about investigating the trump campaign and because bar is in the middle of that inquiry has a not only ordered it but actually flew to Britain and Italy seeking evidence to support it he is part of the facts surrounding the inquiry and yet at the same time he is still overseeing the role of the justice department and responding to the impeachment inquiry in these various cases we've been talking about surrounding weather come can be criminally or simply investigated so if the criminal investigation into the molar investigation and this is the criminal investigation that was initiated by Attorney General Barr if that continues to go forward and if the results come back saying yes we found criminal activity that led to the mother investigation what does that mean does that mean that Andrew McCabe who is the acting FBI director is is charged with a crime like I mean that is possible right it means that anybody who is participating in those brought decisions about who to investigate and how to do it when the trump campaign was being accused of having these contacts with Russia any of those people could face criminal charges would that be unprecedented I don't think it's unprecedented because when you go back to the Iran contra scandal in the Reagan administration there were officials including former defense secretary Caspar Weinberger who were indicted for crimes based on their participation in around contra however George H. W. bush pardoned those officials so they did not serve their sentences and the official who was in favor of those pardons and urge them on President Bush was William Barr in his first start in his first round as Attorney General an Attorney General Barr also declined to investigate a whistle blower complaint that the president was using the power of his office to get Ukraine to investigate Joe Biden who is terms possible rival in the twenty twenty election so that's another way that he's just kind of involved in the story that he's supposed to be overseeing that's right and that decision not to investigate the whistleblower complaint not even for it to Congress it's one of the most controversial and questionable calls that trumps justice department has made after after the justice department made that determination dozens of former inspectors general people who have the authority to mount their own internal investigations of the government they all signed a letter saying this is a really bad decision on the part of the justice department they are very much hoping the justice department will change its mind and what they're worried about is chilling future whistleblowers from coming forward because the justice department effectively dismiss this whistle blower and kind of shunted him aside and so all these folks who do this work of investigating are saying wait a second we need to take these whistle blower seriously we need to protect them we need to make sure that their complaints get the full airing that they deserve William Barr has basically totally supported president trump and some people have even said trump is treating bar as if it was his personal lawyer the constitution calls for the separation of powers with three co equal branches but when the president appoints the Attorney General how separate is the executive branch from the judicial branch right so this is a really tricky question an American governance the Attorney General serves at the pleasure of the president just as you sad and is located firmly within the executive branch at the top of the justice department so in some sense it's just not an independent job on the other hand we pretty much rely on the Attorney General not allowing the president's winds war partisan political matters to be determining how here she oversees our lunches investigations right we don't want the president to call up the Attorney General on the phone and say lay off of that guy he's my friend or I want a pardon this person so you know forget your investigation and your indictment and will you go along with me that's a line that attorneys general in United States history have crossed at their peril and I think we're at a moment again where this tension which is always there beneath the surface seems very fundamental right now to the rule of law in the country and we're seeing that play out in William bars relationship with president trump if you're just joining us my guess is Emily Bazelon she's a staff writer at The New York Times magazine and her latest article is called what happens when a president and Congress go to war with each other we'll be right back this is fresh AIR support for NPR comes from this station and.

Emily Bazelon staff writer The New York Times magazine Congress Terry gross
In Hasbro's Ms. Monopoly, women earn more than men

All Things Considered

00:39 sec | 1 year ago

In Hasbro's Ms. Monopoly, women earn more than men

"This followed on the way out today in which Hasbro updates a classic game to reflect modern reality you know make monopoly right you pass go collect two hundred dollars by a properties I was like the green ones but anyway try now ms monopoly women get two hundred and forty Bucks when they Pasco men get two hundred dollars instead of properties you buy things women invented like wifi but you didn't know that they do also chocolate chip cookies also also we're not for nothing but Molly would and I am the puck is that we do together called make me smart we did an episode just today on exactly this the gender imbalance in the workplace Emily Bazelon from The New York Times Inslee join just check it out I'm sure there's a link

Hasbro Molly Emily Bazelon Pasco The New York Times Two Hundred Dollars
"emily bazelon" Discussed on Longform Podcast

Longform Podcast

04:24 min | 1 year ago

"emily bazelon" Discussed on Longform Podcast

"Eight these questions of bias is like out there on the table. If you'd been it was digital reporting by, if you hadn't had a by line, I feel like none of this would've ever happened, but that's also such an arbitrary distinction. You see as you see five people at addition reporting, and you're like, why didn't they get bylines? They, they did this much as reporter. Yes. But so after this last about this, but you have been doing gab es for a long time now. And you have like gotten in front of a microphone and talked about how you feel about the things that are happening in the day, some of which I'm sure generates a reaction. But how did that compare to being? I just wanna know what it's like to be in the spotlight of Sarah Huckabee Sanders, making a comment that is specifically about you L was awful. I just wasn't the kind of notoriety or attention that I would ever want. I have that fundamental discomfort that I think a lot of journalists have, and should have about becoming the story, like no longer where people talk. Talking about the police report, I'd gone to get they were talking about me, and I am not interesting. I don't wanna be interesting in that way. So in that sense, like I felt a fault just because I didn't want to be in that position. And I was like, clearly done something to bring it upon myself. You know, there were also journalists who said like this is not a role you shoulda played. You should understand that. If you're being an opinion journalist, you don't also get to go right for the news desk, again in the specific circumstances of going to pull police report. Because netted are asked you to do that. Seemed innocent. So anyway, I guess I'll stop there. I did not enjoy Sarah Huckabee Sanders and everyone else attacking me that day that it was fun. Definitely not fun. It was also over. It was interesting how if felt in the moment like this, intense heat, I mean, literally, I felt like my face was flushed for forty eight hours. And then it just like everything else in our world, it just like when away, we have such a short attention span. I mean, I'm grateful for them. That's phenomenal Brett, Kevin ought himself. They all of those things no, the much bigger questions around acusations against him just falling out of the public discourse because that's behind us. No. Yes. And that was a bigger story. So the last question I have for you is. So your book is out and also you're doing a lot of interviews nothing's things under book. How do you sort of reenter, an ask in this because I wanted to the answer for myself. How do you reenter it sort of your, your regular rhythm of the journalism? You were doing before coming off of the but we do in the podcast as well coming off of these huge projects. I think it's hard, I think the times magazine is such an amazing place to work, and I love my work there and get to basically pick what I wanna write about. And so that makes it easier but it is this fundamental, psychological shift where you just like have to start thinking about something else, and take it really seriously. I mean, part of me is like, can't wait to write about new things, right. I mean, I'm journalists like many with short attention span a book project is hard for me in that regard, the actual event of one's book coming out is so anxiety, provoking, and great and terrible and weird and exciting all at once I think I need a little more coverage time from that, but I'm really looking forward to having my normal life back and. Doing shorter. Normal magazine sinement for a while. I feel like it will be a while of did I say this last time, I think maybe the last time I said, I couldn't wait another book this time. Like I've been no hurry magazine, writing podcasting. The seems great. Thanks again for coming. Thanks for being here. It's I love the book. It's amazing. Thank you. That's super nice if you are to the next one. All right. That's it for this week's long podcast on your co host Evan Ratliff. Thank you to Emily basil on for coming in her book is called charged and you should go. Check it out. It's an amazing book..

Sarah Huckabee Sanders Kevin reporter Evan Ratliff times magazine Normal magazine Emily basil Brett forty eight hours
"emily bazelon" Discussed on Longform Podcast

Longform Podcast

04:04 min | 1 year ago

"emily bazelon" Discussed on Longform Podcast

"My or for Ruth, Bader, Ginsburg for anyone who the news desk was interested in, so we didn't occur to me that I was doing something that I could call down all this criticism on myself. And the paper for, but I also had made, I would say a mistake the previous summer I teach at yellow school. And when Cavanaugh was nominated a bunch of faculty members wrote and said, very praising things of cavenaugh, and some of the people who did that were liberals, whose politics are not aligned with Kavanagh's, and it seemed to me, deeply hypocritical and disappointing because I felt like they were doing that to curry favor in a way that I just thought was wrong. So I tweeted something about that part of the camera nomination total inside baseball of Yale Law School. But I think I forgot in that moment that I really should always wear my New York Times, had, and that by arguing with these law professors, in this one professional context, I was doing something that could be used against me as journalists later, no one paid any attention to my tweet really in the moment. But then months later when my bylines on news story, Sarah Huckabee Sanders had. This tweet she could pick up and you know the things about like a solo tweet. They're totally out of context. I sounded much more political and critical of Kavanagh than I would even in an up Ed I wrote for the New York Times. You like if they had mined gab fest, they could have also found if something fast who knows what had happened, but you can't put out an audio clip like a tweet tweet, right? And the other thing I blamed myself, as like I thought I knew this about social media, right? I thought I understood how to use it. And yet, like, obviously, I didn't quite or at least I wasn't careful enough in that moment, there was another part of this from the point of view of the times, which is times inside baseball. I sometimes right up ED's for the times, and it turned out that there's a rule against writing opinion pieces. And also writing for the news desk at the paper in a way that's different from the magazine. And I just didn't know that. And so that was the problem from the point of view of the paper or a problem. I understand that there's that policy that, that they have a policy about sort of tweeting political things. It seems very unevenly enforced to me across a lot of reporters that I follow. And obviously, this is a case that you could point to and say, well, this is why you shouldn't do it. But on the other hand, the reporting that you did was just was literally a police report like it doesn't get any more sort of like I'm just gathering these facts than that, and they could have said, no, actually, this is no big deal. It's just facts. She collects facts like forget about it. Yes, they could have. I mean, look, this is one in which I think, honest, good journalists disagree. I came up at slate a place where I did opinion journalism for years to me, what matters is like disclosure, do you know where someone's coming from? Can you tell how they've arrived at their opinions? I also see myself as someone who's very much driven by my reporting. I try not to take knee-jerk partisan stances. I'm sure like everyone else I sometimes do because we all fall prey to that. But I'm pretty careful when I express opinions to say where they're coming from at least I hope so to me, it seems like okay. Well, if you see my bilan there you. You can look up the other things I've written. You can see where I'm coming from, and that should be what matters here in addition to the fact that like, yes, pulling a police report is something that I can do that any journalist can do. I hope and also again, that I would have done in any context like not, because I was out, get Brad Kavanagh. It was just like a good scoop. And he was in the news at that moment. And I think there were some conservative commentators who argued that, that bar fight wasn't a story. You know he's up. I prim court nomination, his the friend he was with got arrested. I think it was a story. So once it clears that bar for me. Everything you need to know to a value..

Brad Kavanagh New York Times Sarah Huckabee Sanders Yale Law School yellow school Cavanaugh baseball Ruth Ginsburg Bader
"emily bazelon" Discussed on Longform Podcast

Longform Podcast

03:58 min | 1 year ago

"emily bazelon" Discussed on Longform Podcast

"And that's also just not my place in this ecosystem, I guess the one of the thing I'd say about this is that what matters the most to me is that these days. Who are getting elected answer to a different constituency? And so when I'm not sure like is this person saying doing the right things should we demanding more L? That's my call to make that McCall of the groups who've worked so hard to put these folks in office. And I think that accountability is crucial. So I have watched with great interest. This group called court watch sprang up around the country, where people just show up in court, and when someone goes to jail for like, stealing a bar of soap they tweet about it. And then these days have to answer not to lake oh, you let out someone who committed murder. But like you're over punishing people that dynamic is really important. I enjoy watching that. And there have been instances, particularly in Houston, where someone got into office with the backing of civil rights groups and immigrants rights groups, and then seriously disappointed them. And they came after her and the name is Kim OG, she'd asked for a big budget increase to hire a whole bunch more prosecutors with. Without offering any more money to the defense bar, and these groups that elected all were like you've gotta be kidding. This is not why we put you in office and the county. Commissioners in Houston, voted down, her budget request, which is like a surprising event, generally, prosecutors get what they want, especially in a state, like, Texas, you would think they would win. So to me that was all really healthy sign that this isn't just about, like a cult of personality. This is about these groups really trying to act standards and make sure that they're followed who was voting to 'cause that's almost like I mean, that's a local journalist function to show up in court and sort of just expose what's going on? And then try to eventually result comes about, but that act of kind of going and sitting in court and tweeting about it is something that well local journals used to be able to, and there were many more of them, right? Exactly. I mean, now we have such uneven local journalism. Right. So it happens in Texas. There are terrific local journalists, and they were totally on the Kim, OG story. Tweeting at me and really interesting to follow. But then there are systems and Philadelphia may be one of them where it's not as good a local journalism culture, and it's really meaningful to have people sitting court. I think increasingly yes, we need to have some of those, like citizen observers, who are helping us hold, our government officials accountable. So when the return to the rules of the New York Times, you mentioned the rules near times. Can we talk about this cavenaugh thing to talk because I found that totally fascinating from the beginning. So your byline was on a story about brick heaven may be getting into some kind of fight throwing some ice people in New Haven when he was a round graduate Yale. When I saw that I guess, because I know you live in New Haven. I thought, oh, she was running only when the win pull the police file on that. And then it became a thing, a thing as big as the president's spokesperson, calling you out specifically. Oh. Spice person was reporting the story. So what was this experience like for you? All is horrible because I was becoming the story in a way that like journalists I very uncomfortable with, and that story broke on the day that the times, did a much bigger story about Trump's tax returns. And so the idea that I was distracting in any way, from that important piece of work was like alarming, and upsetting to me you were right. I was the person on the ground in New Haven, who the news desk asked go pull police file like that's what I did wasn't even your right. You didn't say I'm gonna go. They asked can you do this. Yes. It was someone else's tip. I was just helping out and I want to say I love doing things like that. I love scoops. I totally have that energy. I would have gotten pulled that police file for Sonia..

Kim OG New York Times New Haven Houston Texas lake oh Trump McCall murder Sonia president Philadelphia Kim
"emily bazelon" Discussed on Longform Podcast

Longform Podcast

02:41 min | 1 year ago

"emily bazelon" Discussed on Longform Podcast

"Yeah. We know how to change it. There is a lot of political energy to change it. And yet, it's like turning an ocean liner, and port as judged on and Littman who's in New York said on my podcast. He's right about that. The actual doing of it is going to take so much effort. And a lot of time, which is always a funny moment as a journalist, where you feel like you see the answer, and the solutions, and you can report on the people who are trying, and yet, you know, that it's going to be with us indefinitely, or at least, like in the Niro of medium-term, and I think, you know, one criticism of my book which is a legitimate one is like these early days. Do we really know that these reformer DA's are going to pan out? What if it turns out that nothing really changes and items, don't know the answer to that? I mean, I hope this moment of hope is one, the proves enduring, but it's just really too early to tell. And where does that has that criticism actually come from somewhere or that's one that you've come up with that would be a criticism of your book that criticism has come from the reform movement? So, you know, there are people there, prison abolitionists, who think that we shouldn't have prisons, or jails at all, or at least wanna change the whole conversation to imagine a world in which they don't exist anymore for whom this reform movement feels incremental and frustrating, and like that whole problem of taking energy that should be going toward blowing up the whole system, and then just tinkering with it. And if it turns out that these new days are just tinkering around the edges than those folks are gonna be proved. Right. And then it may, we may look back and think this window was open. We shouldn't have just settled for these days, we should have done something much more dramatic. No, I have to say just to have the last word is pragmatist. I'm not. I don't see another more promising real option out there right now. Would you feel? In kind of voicing solutions in the book and have in a tone of, like there things changing there's a side that I, I'm pushing on a little bit that now the books out that you're getting pulled more into people wanting you to be an advocate. And do you put a stop to that at some point, and say, no, I won't go. This is the light. I will not cross. Yeah. People who are running as reform D A's want me to come and do events with them, or Tom to them. And I'll talk to anyone. I'm reporter but I'm not endorsing candidates. I think that's probably I'm sure that's against the rules of the New York Times, but also it's against my rules. Like that's just not my role in the world. If I got really interested in a race I could write about it because I was interested, but I'm not going to be the person who's like onstage holding your hand in the air because I don't know how it's going to play out..

Littman New York Times New York reporter Tom
"emily bazelon" Discussed on Longform Podcast

Longform Podcast

02:05 min | 1 year ago

"emily bazelon" Discussed on Longform Podcast

"And I also felt like particularly for this issue right now, we know a lot about how to end mass incarceration. We've learned a lot about how to prevent crime. Most people, I think, don't know all the particulars of that. Even if they have the side of, like, wow, there, too many people in jail in prison. How we bring those numbers down safely, much less explored. The other thing that I think made the safer for me as a journalist, was that there really is bipartisan support for reducing mass incarceration, and it's become something that conservative Republicans as well as Democrats have claimed as like the compliment so early into my reporting I found this Wall Street Journal op-ed that Grover Norquist the enemy of taxes, extraordinaire, he'd written this up in which he said that criminal Justice reform was one of the major achievements of the conservative movement of recent times a knife thought. Oh, okay. We'll if you're claiming this, I can stand on ground here that's not partisan ground, and now felt really helpful and important, especially. At this moment when everything is so polarized along partisan lines. It was a big relief to feel like I could be part of a conversation that didn't have that particular division. And there. There's this other example in the book which was a one I had read a little bit about of the new Philadelphia elected DA, and I knew you're from Philadelphia. And then you get to this point of the book where you say that your sister is actually like the policy adviser to what's his name Crasnick. Krassner christner. And I wondered if that was it disappointing that, here's this. Like he's of, really good example of what's going on interest that you had this, like, both fortunate unfortunate tie. I wondered if he would have been a big character in the book of your sister had not been working for him. That's possible him. Yeah. I mean, part of it was the timing. So Larry Krassner got elected twenty. He took office in January twenty eighteen so for me that was fairly late on I was already like up and running pretty seriously in Brooklyn at that point, I love my. Window into crasner office that I have my sister. She sends me new stories all the time. I have a really good sense of what's going on there..

Larry Krassner Philadelphia Wall Street Journal Grover Norquist DA crasner Brooklyn
"emily bazelon" Discussed on Longform Podcast

Longform Podcast

03:06 min | 1 year ago

"emily bazelon" Discussed on Longform Podcast

"And I think that Kevin was ready to go on with his life. And like a he could tell this was a project that was important to me. And maybe he got something out of it. But I don't think continuing to talk to me was super important. And I completely understand that and don't begrudge it at all. I do wanna know what's happened to people when I've had this intimate relationship with them. I remain deeply interested in curious about them if he appeared tomorrow, I would be so happy to hear from him. So. Yeah, it's funny. It was a kind of unrequited love. I would say this, this part of the relationship of literally gonna keep showing up your house. Yes. What your mother really might resent? I hate doing that. I do not like coming to people's houses uninvited. I don't like it when people knock on my door. So I just feel like it's invasive. To what extent do you feel like in either your pitch to that? I don't know if you would explicitly ever say anything like this. But in some like heaven talking to you is there an element of I'm trying to change this issue. Like if you tell your story it will help change this issue, or do you sort of try to stay away from that. I stay away from that because I can never make that promise. I don't know how it's gonna play out. I feel like people either. That's part of why they're talking to to begin with. Or that's not of a lot of moment to them link narrow legitimately thinking about their own life, or they don't think you're going to be able to change anything and you know what? They're probably. Right. So no. I didn't say any of that. And with Kevin, it was also tricky, because the more understood about his world, and Brownsville the more understood that it was actually risky for him to be talking to me. I didn't ask him a single question that could have gone anyone in trouble. I didn't wanna know anyone's name. I didn't wanna know about anything. That could implicate him. But there was a protocol in his neighborhood where you just don't talk to people, and that I was breaking. So I started getting worried about the implications for him. And whether in advertently, I could be putting him in danger, even though he wasn't doing anything. And I just trusted him on all of that, and trusted him set the boundaries. And then I tried really hard to respect them. So I went through with him everything that was in the book, and when he felt like the details were getting too close. I took things out. I didn't put in anything that wasn't true. But I took out some things that could only have been true about him that he was worried people around him would read and say, oh, I know who that kid is what's interesting because then you have this other Troy, who's, you know, he it's his real name, and he's sort of going through. It's on exactly parallel, but it's similar in many ways. Yeah. Well, so part of what I learned was that try lives in Williamsburg, and it's just a different scene. A more forgive. Ving seen. And we've talked about the podcast since it's been out in front of his listening to it, and I think he feels proud of it and happy participated in it. We did keep his last name out of the podcast because I don't want people to Google him. And find out about his criminal record, which is supposed to be dismissed..

Kevin Google Troy Ving Williamsburg Brownsville
"emily bazelon" Discussed on Longform Podcast

Longform Podcast

02:04 min | 1 year ago

"emily bazelon" Discussed on Longform Podcast

"So he just thought it was fun to come in to slay to go to the studio. He walked in the first day. It was like, oh, this place is cool. And he sat down and was super comfortable with the Mike and just think into it and, and he also makes music. So I think there was also this part of him that was interested in that aspect of recording. Yeah, it was really fun house, sort of over that time, especially with Kevin how connected, do you feel to his life? Like I do a lot of reporting just never talked to the people again. And they don't necessarily want to talk to me either. But there is this phenomenon where they feel very close to you've listened to them. You've spent a lot of time with them, you've kept showing up, and then you suddenly stopped showing up and I'm wondering how that maps onto this situation ship with Kev. One is much more about him rejecting me than me leaving him behind. So when his case was over I was not done. Reporting my book, like I needed to stand touch with him. For fact, checking to find out what was going to happen to him for a million reasons. And so I said him on that last last and court like you have to call me back, but of course, he didn't have to call me back. I'm not as Larry. No me anything. And so there was this, period. And it went on for a few months last summer when I couldn't reach him at all, and nothing. I was doing was working. I went over to his house that didn't work his lawyer tried to get back in touch with them social worker. I was like nothing and it really I was like, waking up in the middle of the night thinking, like a lost Kevin. I lost this person he will lose in Brooklyn is not that far away, like a mega have to go moved Brownsville. So I can show up at all hours for a really know what I was going to do. And then I did find him through this sort of circuitous route involving a friend of his I was in touch with and. You know, social media, it worked out, but it was really, really nerve wracking. And I think that Kevin was ready to go on with his life. And like a he could tell this was a project that was important to me. And maybe he got something out of it. But I don't think continuing.

Kevin Kev Larry Mike Brooklyn Brownsville
"emily bazelon" Discussed on Longform Podcast

Longform Podcast

02:55 min | 1 year ago

"emily bazelon" Discussed on Longform Podcast

"I definitely noticed that though. And then there are some references and this is also about the fact that they're much younger than me and hippo than I am. But they're like you know with a lot of the people we were reporting on, they would talk a lot about music. And I didn't know anything about their music. I mean my sons who are teenagers would despair over how little I knew, but I didn't pretend that I got it like, and then Vural Alvin and dry or whoever could just make fun of me as the like out of it. You know, white mom in the room, and that was fine with me, but I don't think that's necessarily like a frivolous, part of reporting because it's also about do understand my world. What are your reference, what do I have to translate for you? And so maybe that did chainstore reporting. It made me think about what did you know, someone like Kevin. How did he look at you in terms of the project that you were doing and the purpose of it, and why he or Chari would decide to share their stories with you what? 'cause we talked in our last last time you and I talked, we talked some about people talking to reporters, and who chooses to speak, and I kind of wanted to revisit it because I felt a little bit. Like I said, well, you know, sometimes you run into someone who won't talk to you, and you say, like, well, that's the smart one, but the mix of motivations someone talking to you is actually much more complex than that. Yeah. So Kevin was surprised that I kept coming back that I think was his initial reaction. I was like, oh, you again, what are you doing here? And I told him I was gonna come back, but, you know, I think like people don't know whether you're gonna show up until you show up again. I was part of a first for months, I was just part of his scene at court, 'cause he wasn't that psyched to have me like shop and. Brownsville where he lived. And so for a long time, I would just like wait for him to come back to court. He was coming every month or so that seemed okay for starters, and then I think that we had a kind of turning point when his best friend died, and that was really hard time for him as you could understand, and I was interested. Like I wanted to hear all about his feelings. I would talk about it as much as he wanted to. And I think in that moment that played a role for him in some way, just that someone was willing to like and really wanted to hear all about how he was feeling. And after that, then he was much more like, oh yeah, you could come meet me at home. I could show you this. I could introduce you to this person. And then I think you just like got used to being around and started taking it for granted, and, like, remembering fill me in on things every once in a while, which, of course, for me was like the Rilling. So maybe part of it again, as you just wear people down. On like a puppy dog with your with your interest, and terrarium, because you take in this podcast in class, he loved coming to the studio, which was great..

Kevin Vural Alvin Rilling Brownsville Chari
"emily bazelon" Discussed on Longform Podcast

Longform Podcast

03:22 min | 1 year ago

"emily bazelon" Discussed on Longform Podcast

"For my book and just like plop them in and figured. Well, you know, we'll have to touch them up a little well, that just doesn't work it on in this is a kind of writing where it's so much more spare and precise and conversational, and I had to learn how to do all those things. So I was really lucky that I had to very patient people who did know it. They were doing who are willing to teach me that was a huge challenge. I felt like the book was the sort of intellectual backstop for the podcast like I knew by them. What I was talking about. I knew the point I wanted to make new what research drawn the kind of intellectual framework was there, but the art of putting it together the art and the craft were totally missing. And how'd you get jackets been on this podcast how to Jack get involved in your podcast? Jack lives in New Haven, and we are old friend. I asked I exactly I just and I'm a huge fan of much of his work for this American life. But most recently, the show, he's been doing called uncivil. And I just said, hey. Hey, like I need an editor for this. You think you would ever work on it? And I think I might timing was just lucky. That's ideal. Yes. Giving the best of the best. Yeah, I mean, I literally the product, wouldn't exist without Jack because especially since Vero left, and we had to find someone else to come in on Jack was willing to tell Alvin to quit his job to come work with us where I was, I was like, wait. I'm nervous about whether you should do that or not. Are you sure that's going to be okay? But it's turned out for me to be wonderful. And I think Elvin feels good about it to where you did a kind of behind the scenes with both producers, and there were several things out of that, that I thought, don't get talked about a lot and one was was race. So you specifically wanted you say in the spine, the scenes that you wanted producers, who were journals of color, because you were going into communities that were predominantly people of color, and you are not, and on Curie. About how explicit were you about that when you started the podcast project? Did you say this is the way it's going to be done? I didn't say that. But I knew inside myself that I felt like this was a strength that I was looking for, like, I just knew it wasn't something that I was going to bring to the table. And so here I had a chance to hire someone to be part of hiring a true, collaborator. Like why wouldn't I try to make up for my own deficit that was sort of how I thought about it, and then I met VERA Lennon. I thought she was terrific and she's African American and her reporting orientational tends to be toward stories about people of color. So I felt immediately like she was going to bring all dimension to this reporting that I didn't have, and then Alvin indian-american, and I felt there was the additional just strength. It was like hiring someone with different muscles. That's how I thought about it. And did it feel different when you were actually doing the interviews with the subjects? As opposed. Maybe when you're going in for the book and you're spending a lot of time with them, and it's just you, did you feel a difference in those interviews. I didn't I didn't. So both feel an an avenue sometimes ask questions that I wouldn't think to ask now maybe that's just because like they have a different sensibility than I do it's hard to know what to attribute that to..

Jack Alvin indian-american Elvin VERA Lennon editor Vero New Haven
"emily bazelon" Discussed on Longform Podcast

Longform Podcast

03:40 min | 1 year ago

"emily bazelon" Discussed on Longform Podcast

"That was the other thing. He was like I didn't know that was happening. That's also kind of a strange thing for a politician to say so all of that over time, I think we sort of figured out how to trust each other to some degree, and the interviews you were talking about which I also found fascinating happened after Eric read my book, math point, he decided to sit down and talk me for my podcast and. Even the day he came in his PR guy said, you know, I don't think he's gonna stay very long. And please don't ask him about how his brother died like he doesn't want to tell that story and we had this, like, three and a half hour long interview in which like it got very intense and intimate. And it did turn out that, Eric wanted to tell that story. And I had never had an interview like that with the public official before. So, of course, as journalists I was thrilled about them. So the podcasts, did you start it after the book was finished or were you doing double tracking them at some point? Yeah. I probably would have been better. If I'd started after the book was finished. I thought about it when I was like halfway through reporting the book, then I pitched it and I worked on it a lot in the summer of twenty eighteen I realized I was going to have to find a new character because Kevin wanted his identity protected, and it just wasn't going to work like a wouldn't be able to interview him on tape. Tell a story. And also his case was finished, and it just seemed like I needed to kind of let him go. So then I had to find another character that took actually a lot of time and effort, it's hard look one of the benefits of the diversion program in Brooklyn. I'm writing about is that if you successfully graduate, your charges are dismissed in sealed. So it's not necessarily good thing to be on tape talking about your life. It took a lot of work. Find someone who was into that. And then the lucky break, I had was that this is quite meta. But some of the participants in this program were taking a class to learn to make a podcast at this arts organization called brick so that was high founder Ari who's the main character in my podcast. And then I took a break from working on it bureau and Williams was working with this, wonderful producer. She took another job, and we had this like hiatus and then Finally, I realize, like, oh, my God, I have to really finish the show and Jack hit who's editing. The project. Helped rope in another producer Alvin Malloth who's been musing. So we then had this intensive period, basically, by then the book was done a that's, when I did most of the work podcast so connected, you hit, you can't just throw in jacket and then move on. Back to angry. But in terms of the work, did you feel like you were exercising different muscles? When you I mean, you had to pick an entirely new story, but did it feel like doing the same type of reporting again or doing a completely different type reporting? Well, I had to learn how to report to tell a story on tape, which is really different. And you probably know this, I don't interview people on tape on the print journalist, I interrupt people constantly not very good at letting them just tell their stories, Jack had to tell me how to use. Silence. Just keep quiet people. We keep talking. It's a miracle. I'm not very good. At keeping quiet. There were all kinds of adjustments like that. I had to make to reporting and I also didn't know at all how to write tape, and how many fewer words, so I think Jack and Alvin very kindly when I wrote my first script and say to me like are you kidding? 'cause what I did was I actually like originally took paragraph..

Jack Eric Alvin Malloth producer Kevin Williams Brooklyn official founder Ari
"emily bazelon" Discussed on Longform Podcast

Longform Podcast

04:14 min | 1 year ago

"emily bazelon" Discussed on Longform Podcast

"And I was very interested in how you try to accordion leg sort of expand into those and then come back together and I'm interested in the process of why that didn't take out an tenure like it seems like thing that could go on forever. Well, totally. I mean you know about this. I think that rich reporting projects do feel like they could go on forever. And there is this fear that I have that even when I've put in a few years, like have I really learned enough do I really understand these people's lives while enough? Did I get Kevin to like talked me enough? Take me places, enough that I could really describe his world like, you know, when you. Think about what you would want someone to do to write a book about your own life. Like how deeply you would wanna be understood if you are? So I would say crazy as to let someone into your life to try, you would want, like a serious vestment of time and attention, and maybe a few years isn't actually enough. So I do go down that path all the time the other pragmatic side of me thinks, like, okay, but I signed up to follow one case all the way through, and after like a year and a half of seeing someone regularly and talking to lots of other people and spending more time, like I hope I can figure this out well enough to tell this one story. And in terms of connecting it to the larger phenomenon the other piece of this in terms of prosecutors was that the gun laws in New York function in this way we were talking about where prosecutors have this choice between. Serious violent felony lesser felony misdemeanor. They're the ones in the driver seat. And so, I could both talk about the system as a whole on these deeper questions social questions you are raising where to someone live in what kind of supports do. They have and all of these aspects of American life. But it was also through this lens of the prosecutors making the decisions it's his or her discretion that's on the line here. So it was sort of doing all those things at once and the Brooklyn DA, Eric all's becomes a character in the book and on the podcast as well. And did that come about easily? I mean, he sort of more of a reformist on the reform side of things. Was it hard to get a person like that involved in doing seem like he did very extensive? Pretty open interviews with you about even his, his background, which was also fascinating. Right. Other that came very late in the game. So when I initially started reporting, Eric wasn't actually the DA because he, he. Was the number two Ken Thompson, who was Brooklyn's first African American DA was elected in two thousand fourteen he was the person I thought I was writing about. And then he tragically died of cancer and erica's olice who'd been a career prosecutor, but also growing up like in the streets of Brooklyn became the interim DA and took over that office. I was not initially sure at all. What kind of cooperation I was gonna get from erica's because he was so knew he wasn't a career politician. He didn't my perception was that. He didn't trust me at all in the beginning. They were really keeping me at arm's length. I could talk to him, but it was clearly, you know, the kind of interview where you're getting a lot of soundbites, back and feel like it's very much the surface, what's the script someone wants you to hear that they've prepared and they're not letting you beyond that at all? And I just kept coming back. I mean, you just hope I suppose over time that someone will trust you a little more. Just because you keep expressing interest in, you're just kind of wear them down. And I think it also helped that Eric, I'm gonna call him Eric 'cause I have used that in my podcast to he's not a career politician. And so there was something charmingly unpolished about him. I would ask him about something and instead of getting defensive he tended to be like, oh, yeah, that's messed up. For example, at one point WNYC did a story about how the Brooklyn DA's office was declining to prosecute many more marijuana offenses for white people than black people. And when I asked Eric about it. He was like, yeah, that's a big problem. I didn't know that..

Eric all Ken Thompson Brooklyn erica Kevin New York WNYC marijuana prosecutor cancer
"emily bazelon" Discussed on Longform Podcast

Longform Podcast

03:47 min | 1 year ago

"emily bazelon" Discussed on Longform Podcast

"Often a really brief hearing at first I didn't understand a lot of here. I in court is so filled with, like acronyms and jargon. It's hard to even I mean I went to law school. Doesn't really matter. I didn't follow anyway. Every local court, even local courtroom has its own distinct language. And sometimes you just literally can't hear what's happening. So I had to like figure all that out and one of the things that hooked me was one of the first as I was there. I was watching this nineteen year old kid. Name's amir. And so some years back story was that he had been arrested for having a gun that was unloaded in his grandmother's apartment was just there, someone who actually called it into the cops they had come an executed a search warrant he was on, like his tenth or eleven court appearance. His lawyer was ready for him to plead guilty and had agreed to a plea deal where Zamir was gonna plead to a felony, and he was going to go to jail for some short amount of time, and he'd agreed to do this. But in the meantime, like a urine pass his arrest and he'd gone to this pipe fitting class, and gotten certified for it and kinda shown that he could be an upstanding citizen. So his lawyer was telling all this to the judge, and she looked at the prosecutor, and she said, effectively, can you drop the charge down to a misdemeanor 'cause I don't wanna send this kid to jail and the prosecutor said, no? And in New York that's up to the prosecutor because if the charges a felony, it's a mandatory jail or prison sentence. And if it's a misdemeanor, it's not and the prosecutor could pick. And that seemed crazy to me that this was the choice of the prosecutor. And that even when a judge was saying, I don't wanna send this into jail that wasn't the outcome. In fact, Samir did go to jail. And then when I talk from afterward, he was like that really mess. Things up for me. And he appears in the book, and a sort of briefer way than the main character from Brooklyn Goncourt in the book whose suited him his Kevin. But that brings you back to this question of sort of how all the reporting worked, which is at some point you clearly had these different cases. And how many did you follow to try to see which ones you could spend a huge amount of time with? Yes. So I have a general rule. I story like this, which is to try to interview between twenty five to forty people who are potential main character subjects for a big project 'cause I wanna get a sense of what the phenomenon is alike. What group of people is like, and someone told me once, who's a social scientists that when you get up to, like around thirty or thirty five interviews you start to see patterns and you start to get a sense of like what the universe of subjects are. So I was doing that at the same time I was looking for people who. Two things who are good at describing their world in willing to talk about it, and then also who I could continue to stand touch with over time. I find that especially when I'm writing about young people. That's a big challenge. Like texting you back on you back showing up, this is not their priority for understandable reasons. And I also had a third thing. I wanted to find someone who's case I could follow through in real time. So kevin. He got arrested a few months before I met him. So when I met him he was pretty much at the beginning of this process of going through gun court. I knew it was gonna take like a year and a half, probably, or even more just given the trajectory of these cases and how they played out. His lawyer was hoping to get him into a diversion program, so he wouldn't go to prison. And I knew that program lasted for a year, or at least I found that out. And then I was like, oh, well, if he gets in following him through to see what happens to him, if he can complete it that'll be really interesting and they. The last thing is in my files of these twenty five to thirty five people..

prosecutor Kevin Samir Zamir New York Brooklyn Goncourt nineteen year
"emily bazelon" Discussed on Longform Podcast

Longform Podcast

04:06 min | 1 year ago

"emily bazelon" Discussed on Longform Podcast

"So you had this one story, but it's vast there things are happening all over the country. Like you say they're changing. Thing to how does this process start? What does it look like for you? When you say okay, now I'm gonna get into this issue, I sort of operate on two tracks at once. I look for a story, that's like gonna have a classic narrative spine. So I'm gonna tell you a story that's going to allow me to illustrate some of the issues. I'm learning about. But it's just gonna be a reported story like you would wanna read because you care about this person. And you wanna know what's going to happen next at the same time, I start talking to lots of law professors, usually that's my field. And I start reading a lot of literature and trying to figure out what arguments people are making what they've shown empirically about how in this case prosecutorial power actually works, so basically, like what do we know what is the social science show us? And then how does my story relate to that social science? And hopefully I pick a story that intersex in a good way with the social science. It doesn't have to be at. Absolutely Representative or perfect. But I have to understand the relationship between those two things. So I can tell you what the context is that was one thing when it came to Nora Jackson, I was curious about if you had picked other stories that did not end up sort of jiving with the larger premise of the book that just sort of fizzled out. Yeah, I always end up doing more reporting than ends up in a book and part of what you're doing. I think in the beginning of a project like this is figuring out who your main characters are the way I came to Nora was really through the prosecutor, Amy wire because she had a pattern of violating people's constitutional rights and yet had gotten elected, I was interested in that. And the office in Memphis, the DA's office had a history of the same kinds of bad practices, and not just struck me as I hoped it was unusual. Right. Like, how does it happen that a district attorney's office affectively gets away with breaking the rules. And there are no consequences. For the professionals who are doing it. And the other the other sort of main thrust of the narrative part of the book is, in Brooklyn gun court or starts in Brooklyn gun court. So at what point did you choose that as sort of narrative to pair with what happened in Memphis? Yes. So the way I gotta gun court in Brooklyn. I wanted to show, the ordinary totally legal humdrum kind of prosecutorial power that assistant D as exercise all the time, and I want to show homage discretion they have in these ordinary cases, I also wanted to pick a hard case and what I mean by that is I wanted to choose someone who was accused of doing something serious. Like by the time I was writing this book felt like I'd heard a lot about the idea that like we shouldn't be putting people in prison for smoking pot. That would have seemed kind of obvious. Right. Like okay, I could pick the kid who got pulled over had a small bag of weed and ended up in jail. But it felt familiar to me. And so, I thought. Okay. Well, how can I make people think about what's actually a more typical instance, of mass incarceration, cause, more than half of the people in prison jail in the end, America, are they are for offenses that we call, violent, not just like murder and rape. They can also include things like gun possession, or taking someone's iphone off them on the street. But all those things seemed like harder cases to me. And I wanted my readers. I wanted to grapple with the harder case. And I was hoping my readers would to, to describe a little bit with that looks like when you decide okay, Brooklyn gun court is a good place to find a case like that. And now I'm just going to what how does it start? I just started sitting on the bench and listening for days. I figured out what the courtrooms were, there are these two courtrooms in the big downtown Brooklyn courthouse anyone can go in and watch. There are dozens of cases or at least, like fifteen or twenty a day that get some sort of process..

Brooklyn Memphis Nora Jackson Amy wire Representative DA America prosecutor murder rape
"emily bazelon" Discussed on Longform Podcast

Longform Podcast

04:09 min | 1 year ago

"emily bazelon" Discussed on Longform Podcast

"We talked about that as well. And was one. If you want the kind of like back story of how Emily basil became a reporter useless to the first step aside with her. It's a good one did is, is the podcast like the same as the book or is it a second book. It's a second that. It's one of the things we talked about, is that she had to get another character for the podcast after spending a lot of time with different stories for the book, she had to then find another one for the podcast. So really added a to the workload of the project. You know, if you're already doing a buck, you're early doing podcast. Why not adds a mailing list to the mix? It's the way to get the word out and bring the attention to the book and the pied cast, which are about different stories. There's no better way to do it than with Mel, chimp Melchett makes it really easy to keep track of people. Let's say you got like a project or one things coming out. And then something else is coming out. Great. You sign people up on the first one then. Boom bang bang. It's all good melts him. Van veins. Here's Evan with Emily Basilan. Emily welcome back to the podcast. Thanks so much for having me. I'm so glad to be here last time we talked, we ended I sort of said, you know what are you what are you gonna work on next? And you said why'd love to do another book, but I don't really know when that's in the cards and that was five years ago. So here we are have your book how much of that time was taken up by this book. I had the idea for the book. I think around the end of twenty fifteen and I wrote a proposal for it. That was all about the power of prosecutors and really about abuse of power and the ways in which prosecutors were driving mass incarceration, and now remained important to the book. But while it was reporting something totally welcome. And for me exciting happened, the story change nationally, I wasn't expecting that, but people around the country in twenty sixteen started trying to elect reformers to the district attorney's office in a whole bunch of American cities and. And a lot of those people got elected, so like November twenty sixteen many of us were distracted by the result of the presidential election. But one site. But once I kind of woke up and started paying attention to these local DA races. I realized I could compare an old school prosecutor to someone who is planning to do it differently. And that seemed really interesting to me to look at to Justice systems that were one of which was trying to fundamentally change the way it was oriented to let step back again. Give people little context for the book of they haven't read it, first of all you were when we talked last time you were doing sort of double time, sleet, and near tons magazine. Yeah. No. You are. Stafford than your wings after technically know what the diff what exactly that constitutes. AM like one staff at the New York Times. It has in that sense. It has advantages to being a freelancer were you also still do the gabfest. Yeah, so I still do the slight political gap vest, this weekly podcast, I've been doing forever with David plots and John Dickerson true. So when you say you came up with the book idea and twenty fifteen was that based out of reporting, you were doing for magazine story or was it just something that was in the air that you just kind of gravitated towards outside of that? It was in the air, and then I pitched a magazine story that let me explain for one side of the book. So I started working on a story about a woman named Nora Jackson, when she was eighteen her mother was brutally stabbed to death in the middle of the night in Memphis is the kind of crime. There's a lot of pressure to solve Nores mom is a white family, and like an upper middle class neighborhood and the prosecutor in Norris case had become the elected d a and Memphis, even though after nor was convicted the Tennessee..

Emily Basilan prosecutor Emily basil Melchett Nora Jackson Memphis Emily John Dickerson reporter Van veins tons magazine New York Times David plots Mel Evan Stafford Nores