17 Burst results for "Elliott Smith"
"elliott smith" Discussed on The Purple Principle
"I have to ask, did you ever hear from the woman from that blind date again? No No. I never heard from that woman ever ever again. And now just yeah, that was that was that was a complete dead in she actually said she would contact me you know when she got more settled in. And then Nothing. Wasn't sure like she ended up reading your book or anything I have no idea I I and I hate to say it i. don't even remember her name which is the shame but Yeah, it was. It was one of the states that that lasted probably forty five minutes. So yeah. But in a way I guess the legacy of it lasted deeds right? Indeed indeed, and it did really make me think at the time and it's interesting. I. Would have held. I would have argued very strongly for the position that technology has no morals in the past that only its uses to now I feel like we have to we have to consider that a lot more carefully. and that really is the end of today's episode with Special Guest Dr Robert Smith. Professor of computer, Science at University, College London, and author of rage inside the machine how to stop the Internet from making big. It's of us all it is not however the end of our discussions with Dr Smith. Based in London these days he was born and raised in Birmingham Alabama during the height of racial tensions in the nineteen sixties. In an upcoming episode, we'll talk to him about those experiences and how he relates them to polarization both on and off line in society today. Here's is a bit of that upcoming episode with Dr Robert Elliott Smith. I was going to school in Birmingham during any segregation bussing in Birmingham. Alabama. which was at one time the most racist city in the world. So at elementary school, we had black kids shipped in from Airport Heights near Birmingham airport, and these were kids because I grew up in a very racist background. I was really quite frying domino's a bullied kid. And surprisingly to me when I was being bullied by other White Kids A. Fellow student of Mine One of the Black Students said to me something that really quite was one of the most influential things it ever had in my life. She said to go around looking at your feet if you. Don't hold your head up. You'll be beat down your whole life and I'll never forget it if meaning those are the exactly the words. In our next episode, we'll turn from polarizing algorithms to polarize politics and speak with former three term congressman Jason Altmeyer about the demise of the political center among both US voters and their representatives in Congress. So you are seeing great disgust in the country with the polarization that we see all around us, some people have chosen to disengage from the political process and just not vote and not participate that is clearly not the right answer. But the other problem is people have left their parties. They've become disgusted and they've left the democratic and the Republican Party. And they've become independence, and now they've disenfranchised themselves in many states they can't participate in primary elections and what you find is. If the only people who are voting in the primary are of one party. That represents the most extreme partisans that that party has to offer. Stay tuned for this and other episodes as we take.
"elliott smith" Discussed on The Purple Principle
"Things talk about my book is that diversity is the fuel of innovation and is the fuel of robustness and effectively when we become isolated and communities where we're all believing the saying narrative, we are inflexible and that flexibility is dangerous. Sounds promising that's here our final bit of discussion with Dr Robert Elliott Smith unimportance of diversity. We need to basically ensure that there's that people here diverse voices and I think if we insure that too I, think actually the tenor of debate would improve because now I saw this album when I was growing up is when you divide people. They'll only interact by screaming at one another in the streets and I've got to say the the any segregation bussing. Really this is the a teaching moment in my life is like I said I was scared of those black kids when I came into real contact with them. They had an effect on my life that was very positive and that's not what I expected. and I think, no, one would say the fairness doctrine in broadcast media which meant mandated set broadcasters were responsible. For providing a diversity of opinions on every a licensed broadcaster back in the days of old fashioned broadcast. That was taken away in the nineteen eighties. I I would I defy anyone to say that the outcome has been positive? There's a difference between diversity in mixing sure we have the voice of MSNBC sure. We have the voice of Fox News, which are entirely different from one another. But they don't mix their audience system mix. So effectively, we have polar the difference between propeller ization and diversity and that's really key We have lots of different kinds of opinions, but we have walls in between them. And those the impenetrable walls. So I wanted to ask your advice on something. Obviously this is an election year and a lot of independence in unaffiliated voters are still undecided. So how do you think people should be searching for non polarized information to help them navigate the pressing issues? I guess a turn around say how can they be propagating information better? You know which will allow everyone to see it better and and as I said, I, think, the most important things you can do are Don't just like and share on headlines basically read the actual article try to reflect more and try to add as sophisticated a human comment as you can try to know the authors of of content the share so that you form a human relationship with them so. Human is as much as possible your interactions, and this is a controversial in his try to unblock people. try a no, it's really hard but there I find myself. There are people who is blocked because these people are dangerously offensive. You know they're saying really ugly things are trolling me those people have to be blocked. Okay. I understand that. But then there are people lied blocked in the past to block them because they just said something that basically didn't fit my world view that well, I, decided I want to see any of that content try to ease off that. A bit because our studies have definitely shown that opening up the connectivity effectively allows the information not just flow to you, but to flow beyond you and then effectively opening up the conversation quite realistic way. So I would advise people be more human and try to open up channels of communication to other people because you're a part of the way the network is structured, and if you change your network structure, you're changing it for many many people not just for yourself Now is are featured guest today Dr, Robert Elliott Smith wait a minute hold on here. We're not done yet. There is more to the interview, but we answered the three main questions. There's more about the blind date though and not much more which spoiler alert. Is kind of the point..
"elliott smith" Discussed on The Purple Principle
"One of the things I say to people when they ask how can we make this better and and I basically say make your interactions more human You know when you post something, try to comment on it in detail the ways you can don't post just on headlines. It's very important to click through and understand the articles you're posting because oftentimes the headlines can be highly misleading and also when you Try to know the people who you're sharing your their content I think that knowing the name of newspaper writers is something we've all forgotten how to do call column looseness used to be people. We knew now columnist nobody even bother to look at their name. So going off that in your book, you say that we have abandoned unanswered questions about ourselves and our society in favor of simplified computational models what kinds of questions are you referring to here? I think the the message of the twenty first century is that the world is a highly complex place in that. Effectively, there is no simplified strategy that will work to to govern human society in an ongoing fashion we have to hybrid is we have to look in any good engineer. No good engineer says the solution to all problems is to use hydraulics and oftentimes you'll in aircraft engineering. You'll have redundancies that are intentionally different technologies. You'll have a mechanical electrical and hydraulic system backing when another up particularly because if one of them fails due to something you overlooked. It won't fail in the other one because it's completely different in similar philosophy probably holds for politics and for the governance of people as we should hybridize strategies for robustness. Great. So back to your book again, for a moment in in rage inside the machine you call for changes in laws, practices and belief systems to try and get people out of Echo Chambers, and really mixing but that's a pretty tall order. Could you give us some concrete actions that businesses or governments could take to start that process? I think that in the first instance I think that the online media needs to be regulated in the following fashion we need to realize that facebook twitter to some extent Google even they are media companies, they're come media. Companies are companies that provide information for living. That's what they are, and these are media companies and they need media regulation and we need to return to the idea that regulation can be appropriate and good, and and so so the first thing government could do is basically Start towards that. So the fact that the content is coming from lots of different people doesn't matter what matters is the fact that it is being sent to lots of people in those people are absorbing what is effectively a broadcast contended happens to come through just like ABC can't broadcast over hate speech on their nightly newscasts. So exactly exactly and and you know now facebook. Really. Does broadcast hate speech. There's no doubt about it they do and and the I mean I'm Hey I don't think any of the major media providers are actually deeply evil I don't I don't think that's true I do think that the goals that we've program them with like programming in the goals we've program these these corporations with may not be compatible with having an effective society. Rate which is truly scary. But then again, if you look at issues like prejudice and polarization, how much of that is the effect of a flawed paradigm and how much is bad actors manipulating that Flawed Paradigm So, it's really hard to say you know. Here's the thing I. Say about Cambridge Analytica if if you watch the great hack and everyone, should I'm sure you guys have an everyone should watch the great hackel net flicks what may Cambridge Analytica? Possible is the change in the way we talk to one another. It's the fact that we do talk to one another largely through algorithm mediated. That these very particular facts. So it is a complicated Between people who are exploiting the fact that we now talk to one another largely sitting at home and looking at a screen and saying like share. But once people see that polarization exist, they can start manipulating it. So it's as complex series of of of feedback leads. That's our featured guest today Dr Robert Elliott Smith author of rage inside the machine how to stop the Internet for making biggest of all he speaking there on the need to recognize human complexity plus regulation of the big social media platforms might help polarization which kind of reminds me of Abigail. Marshes observation in episode four on the fact that human beings are animals and the importance of our senses for real communication that was a great insight. But to play that bid for those who have not heard the episode but Dr Abigail. Marsh psychologists and neuroscientists at Georgetown University. It's interesting seeing the disagreements among psychologists about how disruptive the switch to heavily technologically mediated communication is going to be. We're animals like we really way that you know the people around a smell and sound and feel i. mean those are all things at moderate our brain activity, really primitive level Do losing not in of Kinda Kinda bums me on. So turns out. We're a little more complex than memes or emoticons. If you're not aware of that, we can really get manipulated like what happened during the Brexit vote in the UK and the two thousand sixteen election here in the US. Let's hope we're a little better prepared this time. But what about our final question can independent minded Americans help bridge the political and social divide was Dr Smith able to address this indirectly? Yes. But you have to remember that he's been living in the UK for twenty plus years but he did say some interesting about the strength of diversity and independence can bring diversity to the divide the US..
"elliott smith" Discussed on The Purple Principle
"Is because speech is highly idiomatic and and we love the premise of your book because it's common for people who think algorithms as being really complex but your premise is there actually too simplistic it's interesting. So yes, is complex in its scale and in its speed in its comprehensibility, but at its roots. It's highly simplifying, and that's the reason it can in yield behavior that can be simplifying people and therefore really quite unsavory in in some cases dangerous and that's how you solve problems of of doing things like recommending what you might by Amazon or Hugh you might want to date on tinder or harmony alternately there about reducing people to attract will number variables. And then doing computations around those in of course, the reduction of people to a small number of variables is at the heart of prejudice to prejudice means to prejudge to prejudge means to define generalized because that's how you prejudge something. So in that sense, algorithms are prejudiced they are making simplifying generalizing steps about things, but traditionally when you point that simplification process at people you. Begin to do things that might place people in a very simple categories, for instance, racial categories, religion-based categories, gender-based categories, etcetera, and political categories and political categories. Indeed, you know the reality is that people aren't as simple as the Democrats and Republicans that that people's opinions about aren't that simple. But you know what we're in the situation right now is we have this hour's McLean mediated media that's trying to places into categories largely for purposes of advertising. That, of course feeds as our news that aggravates our emotions. So effectively, it's the worst kind of narrow casting. It's You know the Internet isn't broadcasting as narrowcasting and then people can come along and exploit those facts as we saw in the Cambridge analytica scandal and for our listeners, we should explain that bogged Cambridge Analytica, the British firm obtaining the private facebook data of eighty million Americans and deploying that be half of the surprising trump victory over Clinton in two thousand sixteen. So speaking of facebook it was interesting to point you made that comes feed the wisdom of the crowd back to the crowd and don't leave expertise into the dialogue. Can you talk a little bit about that feedback? Yeah back in the nineteen th slick nineteen sixties through the nineteen seventies and into the eighties a bit There was something called systems, which is basically rule-based ai where they tried to take the knowledge of of experts and put it into a set of rules, and then have programs that acted like experts. By excluding these rules it largely didn't work as it turns out that extracting the information from the heads of experts is both really hard and extremely expensive. The new I as stuff that people would call neural networks and deep learning largely those techniques are. About statistics and gathering big data drives statistics is largely free some of even pay for data to be harvested. So effectively, that's a much more economically feasible form of AI, but it it has its own set of problems one of the reasons that I think populism and A and mediated media fit together. So well, because it basically says, don't trust the experts, trust the average of the common man and and I mean look I'm all for Democracy I'm all for people's votes to be counted but. They're one of the ways that we function as a society is by trusting people who have the time to do or know something we don't have the time to do. And if we don't have that kind of trust and other people than we weaken our human abilities and that's the situation we're in. Now I find it interesting that not only are the categories becoming more simplified thirties different. On, different websites but also it seems like there's a higher propensity for the users to cling to them as their identities and so in effect their identities and world views themselves become more simplified. Identity politics follows from populism for from simplification. If all the media you're getting simplifies things. Then unfortunately, we have a tendency to follow along in simplify ourselves in fact, the form of of online media Encourages us to behave more like algorithms. We like things or we share things very binary operations oftentimes, people share things on headlines to see the headline they say oh I hate trump I hate Bernie Sanders, and they share a you know and so we have these the way that we're kind of shaping our interactions is very simplified in many ways. So we're behaving like algorithms and actually increasing the facts and was there any kind of like turning point that I guess when you change your mind about ai certainly the the outcome of recent elections affected my point of view because I felt that the influence of ours McLean mediated media You know during the two thousand, sixteen election I believe that half of Americans got their news entirely from facebook and facebook seeds are arrange Algorithm Mickley. Per Se, there's only curation of Algorithms and I think that we saw some very drastic shifts of people's behavior.
"elliott smith" Discussed on The Purple Principle
"By the way. Can I curse in this interview go right ahead go right. All right. So my dad when I first got a job my dad I asked him, you know advice about how to how to handle having two jobs and he said the first thing don't minimize. You're listening to the purple principal and today's featured guest Robert Elliott Smith professor of computer. Science at. University. College London. This is back before social media back before email even in the thing is is that there's the reasoning to that is the further you get from face to face communication with another person the more dangerous the communication becomes a we all know this it's so easy in a memo for someone to misunderstand your meaning you get down into a tweet it's. Even worse. Even a phone conversation. You know when you have something important to save the money you go and talk to them face to face, and the reason is is because there's a lot more to communication simply than symbolic communication through the written word or through the abbreviated written word in in in twitter method, human communication is extremely complex as all human interaction. This. Is Robert Peas host of the purple principle, a podcast about the perils of partisanship. Today's featured guest is Dr Robert Elliott Smith. An expert on the polarizing affects of Algorithms. He's published a rich unusual and important book on this topic entitled Threes inside the machine how to stop the for making of all. I'm here a staff reporter Emily Chris Seti. Emily. Interesting. Guests today good to be here and yes very interesting guests. So seems from reading the book rage inside the Machine Dr Smith's quite the renaissance computer scientist. If that makes sense, it seems to hear he's an amateur actor, a musician, and obviously a writer to in addition to his work with artificial intelligence plus his book makes it Oh Mosh Salvador Dali the surrealist painter nut, your computer science much and plus he hails from Alabama but has lived in London for the past twenty three years. So that's different interesting perspective and he does have some. Insights into social media in partisanship definitely, and not just on the dangers of algorithms but also ideas about how to avoid those polarizing traps. Great. So remind me where we're starting here's it right into algorithms not exactly. We're actually starting off the story about a blind date in Birmingham Alabama like thirty years ago, but it is surprisingly relevant. Okay. Well, let's hope. So here's part one of the interview emily and I conducted with Dr Robert Elliott Smith author of rage inside the machine and an expert on polarizing topics such as artificial intelligence and blind dates So back in ninety seven, one of each student one of my faculty members. One of my mentors effectively set me up on a blind date, which is a bit of a strange thing to happen at graduate school. But he had a friend who this friend's daughter was coming from New York to Birmingham Alabama and. I wanted make an impression on this woman so I took her to A. Bar in Birmingham called burly earls and we there was some kind of alternative. On that night and we went and had a conversation and there were a couple of people there who were you local serious locals and? Her accent and my kind of. Appearance probably didn't settled him that much on say accent what kind of accident did she have she a New York accent So a New Yorker in Alabama bar. Yeah exactly. So she asked me what I did at Graduate School noteholders working artificial intelligence at that time that was term where not many people knew much about. And so I, had to describe it was doing and the people across from me were really listening in bigly. This one gentleman rather large burly gentleman was listening in and when I got to the end of description he looked at me and said how Hitler Powell Like that which was really weird and bit threatening and we left the bar and I don't think she having a good time anyway. But we we went out to the car and she kind of course, evening off and said you know I think you're a bit more confused about what you're doing. She didn't agree with the guy in the bar but she thought the you know the stuff was all very questionable. kind of followed that way until the book really that's interesting all that time. So when we asked that question, we thought your. Student who fully believed in the morality of artificial intelligence did we get that wrong? I think at the time I believe like most people probably believe is that technology doesn't have morals only cheeses do and retrospectively I think particularly with regard of artificial intelligence stats slightly irresponsible I. think that in reality Ai is very is an extension of the quantification simplification in generalization that quantitative social. Sciences has done with people throughout history science really in actually quantifying people is always something that has been not very far from intolerances and bigotry, and in many ways That's the reason I. Make the statement that now I believe Algorithms are prejudice. Now that's not to say that I don't think is useful I think is useful I think ai is powerful and can do good things for people however I think it has to be used with caution and I think currently we're seeing some very unconscious use of ai and that's that's why wrote the book so you're a computer scientist and an expert in artificial intelligence. So then why write a book I mean it's kind of old school of a seriously why did you choose to write a printed book to tell your story? I. Love. Books. And I, love language and. One of a chapter in the book about language and out how computers perceive and in quotes making air quotes here understand language versus the the very subtle nature of meaning for human beings and how different those two things are If you ever gotten a friend WHO's a foreign language speaker, it said something in a foreign language on twitter or on facebook in you hit the. Translate. Button what you'll basie find out those translations are terrible in the reason is.
"elliott smith" Discussed on Carry The Fire Podcast
"Better and for worse, but I feel like I have again to scale and with a firm understanding of the scope of which it's not like again. It's not like you're writing songs. Like ten million people are listening to, but to the people who do and will. I I feel like. The responsibility I feel to myself. which you know is these are slightly different things I guess I always want to try to get something a little better. And that could be from a technical perspective like I was not blessed out the gate with like the most I listened some of the earlier records and I'm like Oh my God some of the vocal performances. Dot stuff that I feel like I needed a lot of practice to get to place now I'm like Oh, I can sing all right, or you know I'm happy to do some of the early ones I'm like. Oh, I! Want to put that. Take that guy out back and like put him out of his misery. But that's that was the time and that's where we're was and but. There's little things from a technical perspective or from a from a music side arrangement side development perspective that every time like I want to get this a little bit I to hone in on this a little more than that could be like the Elliott Smith obsessive right like that's like the guy who was tinkering all the time like, but if my voice the cord this way instead of this way, and that that thing the content. I, don't I guess I just don't want. I and I'm not saying anything about anybody else when I say this singing about myself I. Don't WanNa be. I Never WanNa feel like I took the easy way out or was cheap with myself about about the thing I was trying to talk about. Whether the song is someone likes it or not, whether it's well executed whether I got there or not. I kind of feel like I just the thing you're talking about about pulling it back. It's like. To me, that's just the the the act of. I don't think anybody's ever like. Discovered themselves. You know I think you're discovering yourself forever and I don't think you I also don't think unearthed any like great ubiquitous truths about the human i. think it's more like. We're just trying to to me. It's like you're just trying to really figure it out a day time and interaction at a time a relationship at a time of movement at a time. And at least I am and so. I feel like that's. What governs the impulse in in the songwriting is to try to do that in a way that also not like really is not just like you're reading someone's journal. Like art to it, some amount of like craft to it, but but I also think in this might sound so fucking cheesy, but it's just real. It's true and real to me. You know there's this thing about like. You know the pull yourself up. Like patriotism are clear yourself up by the bootstraps, or whatever, and then it's and it's that tends to be attached to a certain. Conservative or or right on the political spectrum way of thinking, and I understand why but I always thought there was like a great. Missed opportunity on like the the left around some of that because like. If. The idea of America is a place where..
"elliott smith" Discussed on 106.1 FM WTKK
"And welcome back George story with you Robert Elliott Smith with us our final segment Robert I've got to really applaud you for the work you did in your book rage because it's a very thorough thank you and I hope that is my goals were to be very accessible at the the book is about a complicated subject but what I'm trying to do is make it really transparent for everyone so I want people to to read the book if you don't have a mathematical background you don't you know with your computer scientists the books about getting everybody to understand hell simple well grins are held complex they are in our lives in light they're having such a big effect on us and so I really hope it's it's probably read did you have any more answers to all my yeah out there shall we move on I think I should say it's a little bit more she gave me this wonderful quote from a as men we don't see things as they are we see things as we are and and it's a great quote that statement work psychologically about that for the individual to say we see things through our own psychological life but it also works sociologically a lot of human intelligence is is basically social that we make decisions as creeps by informing one another and it allows us to deal with highly uncertain world that we live in think about that and think about that what I'm saying about social media if we're roped into communities that only communicate in in in groups that re self reinforce then we see things is that we had held out we is in there we then is very narrow that that group of people is very narrow in its sporty view and if people want to then attack how you see the world they know where to go they know the near community to get to and say things specifically to them so this is this is this dynamic I'm talking about and and there are ways we can we can break that dynamic down I say you know unblock as many people as you can tolerate is an important thing because you want to make the social media network more permeable to different ideas so it's not just about what you see is what other people see through you so you want to do that the thing you want to do is you want to engage in a human way with the content don't just read headlines and and re broadcast and share and like things read the content because the algorithms have a simple minded understanding of the content in our operating on this implemented understanding use your human mind don't be like an algorithm understand it content engage with any human way get to know particular riders get snow picket particular journalistic institutions and even if their institutions I would disagree with basically it's better for you to have trust through relating to human institution than it is to have trust simply by what did Facebook gives me you know what what algorithm search committee so says they hate more humanly online so that we can can counter some of the effects of the way algorithms make us more divided all right let's go to Thomas in la Hoya California Tom go ahead your check thank you for taking my call and Robert great information and tomorrow yeah I mean just wonderful questions Robert so one of the first applications of artificial intelligence was to M. dot nuclear command and control and the Pentagon you know decades ago realize that in order to have a nuclear exchange in thirty minutes they estimated that by nineteen eighty five that nuclear exchanges between countries would be thirty minutes long and you would have three billion that's B. as in Baker billion weapons interactions which means you had three billion decisions to make in those thirty minutes so right handed it over to supercomputers sand if Vance start official intelligence programs yes one general said it takes at least two seconds for general to make a decision then push a button that's way too slow when you're conducting a nuclear war at the speed of light and courses on intended consequences on that Peter Vincent Price who's been interviewed on coast to coast wrote a very interesting book twenty years ago documenting a number of nuclear incidences which were nearer lunches and the nuclear launch sick once spoken Russia and in the United States was initiated by computers okay and there was only one humans realized minutes maybe even seconds before silos were opened and missiles were launched there we were in a nuclear launch sequence so I was wondering if anything it's worse today then there was twenty years ago thirty years ago Janice wondering if you would comment on that it seems like this is what you're talking about there may be yet we need humans in the loop and we've taken humans out of the loop in terms of nuclear command and control and hello maybe we need humans in the loop the reason why we don't have humans in the loop yes because technically it's considered too slow if it I mean yeah it is interesting I I II I hear what you're saying I I I do agree with you and I think in some ways maybe is a little worse now because it's not just about the largest possible feel warfare nuclear warfare at the level of we now we have drives you know upon this vehicles that that basically a semi autonomous vehicles most of drugs are controlled by somebody flooded with the stick but they're becoming more autonomous in their armed with weapons and they go out and do actions you know far missiles that particular cars you know it's down to a fine level and there's real questions now about how much upon me do you give a weapon in basically making a decision in warfare and there are groups out there there's a a scientist and in here in the U. K. called little shark you will I know he's working very hard on this you were trying to establish international treaty about autonomy in weapons systems effectively that what's local closely called killer robots in this killer robot doctor occupy unique part of the military echelon from down at the drone level up to the the to the nuclear command level and I think it's very very important that people realize how simple algorithms are in many ways hell they can have a merchant affects how effectively you can program very simple like that because they interact with the complex world they have their own complexities they can basically make decisions you don't expect and therefore it's is absolutely essential I think in all important human interactions down from from from somebody get in their welfare check all the way up to nuclear command control to hand humans in the loop human interactions should be mediated by humans it's great to have great algorithms hoping that they should always be seen as helpers and helpers who were a bit simple minded and they need a real complex human being involved in this this effort to restrict the killed decision being made by an algorithm is very important it needs to be addressed at the international level with you and other bodies that NATO except for and people are working hard on that they're they're groups working hard on that and I think that that that their work is absolutely vital got Taylor now in Atlanta Georgia our first time caller Taylor go ahead Hey George Hey Robert what question all of the gentleman's question number the nineteen eighties we'll be working yes Sir do an act that was a kid accidentally not yet well you started or lines of command on accident okay woke up an old computer and started a nuclear Holocaust what so the union or not you think you think as of computers run ordinarily ninety out our programming yup and you think self Fatemi aware like programming or whatnot and lead to nuclear Holocaust countries either cyber command yeah I I think that a yeah the the great I love a on a science fiction movies I love them they're huge part of my life I see I think I've seen them all and I think that the great thing about science fiction is not necessarily that the science is accurate or will ever be accurate it's more that it causes us to ask questions about ourselves and I think a only in some ways it's kind of a field of philosophy it's still a fluffy this basically saying what is mechanical about thinking what isn't and and I talk about that a bit in the book in in the thing is is I think it with the war case scenario actually happen it's complicated on the one hand the idea of sentience and and kind of the robot being like a person as it is in science fiction and in war games that's really really really really far out in the future that's not real let's not really going to happen on the other hand could mistakes being made by algorithms that lead to catastrophic consequences yeah I think it's really possible and I think we're in a world where that it's become possible so I I do think it wouldn't be as cinematic as wargames it's it's something like that happen but it's not impossible that it could happen I I actually don't the the nuclear worry I have let's worry about then the kill robot scenario because I think that right nailed the debate is really about autonomy of small weapons like train tracks and things like that I think that's the the issue of the day but certainly one needs to be concerned about algorithms anywhere that make decisions that impact human lives in really vital ways what do you think of as a mas rules of robots those three and a great reason I love that stuff and and I think as most you know but but as I say about science fiction in some ways and think about science fiction being a basis for the next book the science fiction view of a on a kind of the future results you they all right being kind of a frame for the next book I think that sci fi is always about philosophical framing philosophical questions were that it is about prediction I think that a Ali is very far from being what we see in science fiction in general but I do think the exploration of the ideas is very very important and I'm glad that that all that so if I exist Gabriel's want us in Spokane Washington he gave go ahead I'm not saying this I purchased and mail and are all shook down on near the end and what I was looking one of separate phone records and rounds the life is not permanent well one yes yeah we'll do elaborate on algorithms is there something like a Grace Kelly algorithm that can influence and emerging American Indians socials monarch you okay I don't get that totally Robert how about you I don't think I got I don't think I really understood the question how far can and algorithms goal very far a in the sense that they are right already it looks think of it this way right now algorithms are deciding what needs you see.
"elliott smith" Discussed on True Crime Garage
"Times, and it'd be random and just be. And it wasn't multiple it was never multiple times. There's never like I got an Email that said checkout Elliott Smith. Suicide. And let me know what you think I think there's something more there. Well, again, I look at it, you start going suicide-homicide. Why think LAPD has it right? Right now, just open because they don't know for sure. Yeah. And I think they're leaving that open in hopes that if it was homicide that may be Jennifer will say something, maybe she'll slip up and tell somebody something, and then that is will will lead them down to the charging her with something. I don't think that's going to happen. And I don't know if this case will ever get close just because there's so many things that point to homicide other, you know, rather than suicide. But I think the suicide note for me. And I think that's the last point. But to me the biggest point. There is a suicide note. Yes. It's only on posted Notre right now the rumors for a long time was that, you know, it says, let me read it again to have much to it, but a possible suicide note written on posted note read, I am sorry. Love elliott. God, forgive me. Now the name Elliott there was rumors that it was spelled wrong because Elliott he's spells it with two TS. And in the coroner's report, it was spelled with one T. Well, that's all it was. It was misspelled on the coroner's report, somebody other than Elliott Smith, right? So it it wasn't misspelled on the posted, no spelled correctly on the posted. No. But in the coroner's report it was it was spelled incorrectly. So that was a rumor again. Something that I heard for years that. Oh, yeah. Well, there was a suicide known as kind of weird that it's on posted. No. And they spelled Elliott Rome, well in here's here's their exact statement, a copy of a suicide note was provided by LAPD detective king. Original will be provided on ten twenty three zero three so at the time that this documents created they've not received the original and they just have a copy. Right. And what they're saying is the note was handwritten on a post it and stated quote, I'm so sorry love Elliott with one t God. Forgive me the note is not dated. Right. So here's here's where it gets weird. Detective king could have wrote this out and handed to him and said this, I'll get you the I'll get to the original again for years. I heard that there was a suicide note, but the name was spelled wrong now now we know that, that was just those Mus pilot error. Yeah. So here's where it gets weird. 'cause you go. Okay. They believe or at least while the speculation that I've seen is that this note was written by Elliott Smith. I am sorry. Love elliott. God, forgive me. I would like for them to examine just the God, forgive me because I am. I'm so sorry, love Elliot. How many fights were they in that week that led to a bigger fight and is a possible that he just wrote that out? And he went for a walk one. Yeah. Just left. It. Yeah. And didn't. Right. God, forgive me. But again, everything that I've seen says this note was written by Elliott. Now, if this note was written by Elliott. Jennifer would have walked into the perfect situation where in this argument he's, he's out of control. I can't stand. I can't stand him anymore. I.
"elliott smith" Discussed on True Crime Garage
"A one thirty six PM Elliott Smith was pronounced dead. In Jennifer's account following an argument with Elliot. She took a shower. Lock in the bathroom door. Cheering unnerving scream. She opened the door to find Elliott standing with a knife in his chest on impulse pulled the knife. Ow. Causing him to collapse. She promptly called nine one one at twelve eighteen PM. A suicide no ridden on a post. It was rumored to be nearby. The note read. I'm sorry. Love elliott. Jodphurs jimmy. Was this, the result of Elliott's and our pain, an act that he's been threatening for a long time? Was there something more to the story, suicide or homicide? There are unanswered questions and mysteries surrounding the vents. Lock Tober, twenty first two thousand three. But really happened to Elliott Smith. There's a lot to unpack here and the question becomes suicide or homicide, and because of the inconclusive, autopsy.
"elliott smith" Discussed on Rock N Roll Archaeology
"It's warm in here, very warm. It's only may and I don't know how I'm going to deal with this. Oh, we're going to actually be recording our underwear soon enough. That's so uncomfortable in gross. No, no. I'll put my pants back on that. Fine. You can do whatever you want. I'm wearing pants. All right. Fine. That's fair. That's fair. We at least get a fan in here because it's fucking sweltering. Can rock candy or we record sweltering heat. It's just to bring you guys sweet treats of stories tales from the world of music, we should rename it. Hot rocks. Looking on here hot candy. But I just picture like melted ops. Ops hot candy is not good candy now. It's just liquid. Oh, gross. Especially chocolate. No. Okay. No. I want that we're hosts Maggie, Ashley, and we don't like hockey Andy. So we got that going for us. I don't think anybody likes hot candies. You like hot candy please, please write into us. We'd like to know your feelings on hot candy. I don't even know what hot candy would be aside from liquid or I mean like a fireball like drink. No. The Kyoto fireballs doodle candies yellow red one. Yeah. Yeah. Those are hot. I thought you were talking about liquid stuff. I'm like, yeah. Yeah. Those. Yeah. Those are those are hot. Yeah. I digress. From our discussion of hot candy. Also, I hate fireballs gross. Why do I want? Why do I want, like spicy while I'm eating candy? Yeah. I never understood the concept behind it, but it's my mom's favorite candy so moms are weird. Yeah. Mom's like weird candy what else mom's like mom's like the topic they were gonna talk about this week. I don't think. Yup. Yup. Go moms love Elliott Smith. They don't say this. Miss Elliott Smith not Samson Elliott Smith. Because we are continuing our discussions on mental health this month, it is still may is still mental, health awareness, month and tonight, we'll hear the story of Elliott Smith and you know, props you if you know who he is. Yeah, yeah. I feel like except for Karen carpenter, maybe Karen carpenter because you said some people talked to who she is. Which I still don't comprehend that. Yeah. But yeah, we've covered a lot of obscure this month. Yeah. We have that jinx you fucking coke just like a coke, a fucking cone, Lucking coke. All right. Coke, please. No. You like your diet cokes, do and to get through this episode of sadness and depression. We also have to drink because how else are we going to deal with our lives? That's, that's the only way we get through anything. Yeah. Right. But tonight we are drinking from foreign objects beer company will full delusion. Of false perceptions. Yeah. I think that describes Elliott Smith pretty good. I don't know. I full disclosure, I had row fucking hard time finding a beer for this episode because of course I had the perfect beer in my head. But do you think I could find it? No, no. You don't. It's going to show up on the shelves next week, right? Oh at one hundred percent is. Yeah. And I went to two different beer. Sores in at the second beer story found a good beer. One, one that would work didn't have my idea on me. One time. They're like we're gonna do really, really really, really. This is the time this time at this beer sword. This, this is when you're gonna be me, who'll bro, cool. Thanks. Thanks guy. But yeah, this is a new American happy ale. I feel like a foreign objects does a lot of happy ails, we've researched they, they just do Hoppy. It's pretty much it. I I'm kind of I'm kind of curious to see if their other one's just taste like this one. Yeah. But the cancer so pretty cancer, very pretty, but it's very Hoppy in very intellectual is key up descriptions, and fucking names. So I feel like this is a beer for people who really liked to boast about drinking days. Yes, this is this is for you. This is for our broS out there and babes who really like to talk about. How many IB us are in their beer? If you really want to impress somebody with a beer, you drink foreign objects. I mean maybe not us. But yeah, sure. Well. For the boozy bitches over there. Yeah. You boozy bitches out in Connecticut. Shout out to you guys again. But yeah, I mean it's an adequate beer, it's doing its job. It is. It's being beer. It is. It is. Beer, beer. So it Stewart shop you're already crossed the finish line. All right.
"elliott smith" Discussed on Rolling Stone Music Now
"Can we talk about money? And if things it's just I don't have much to say about it. But it's just a purely delightful song. What a great great great song. You know, if you're living in the south in nineteen ninety eight, you know, the the triumph of southern hip hop was, you know, something to celebrate. And take pride in Germain Duprey who'd been doing it for such a long time in Atlanta was suddenly in OG and money thing is such a like you said totally delightful song. It's it's a serve purely euphoric hedonistic song. It's kinda like nineties version of thin Lizzy. The boys are back in town. You know, like it's just like, yes. Let's just like go out and like spend tons of money, and and you know, drive around and just throw money out the window. And and just celebrate that and I'm curious I don't wanna would drag going through the list, but there's a bunch of cases where there's you pick a track from great nineteen ninety eight album, and maybe it's not the track that would have picked. But it's fast. To me that you would pick that ad bled. White by Elliott Smith from exa which is again, I think of in Morris just kind of a start to finish great album. How did you pick that one track? What is it about that song for? It's just it's my favorite Elliott Smith song. It's definitely like my favorite from that album. It's hard to pick a favorite Elliott Smith song. They're they're semi contenders. Most of the ones I love most are ballads, you know, like it between the bars or or Angeles. But bled white is a rock and roll song. It really it's a very different kind of song for him because he's got the intimacy and invulnerability of his ballads. But there's also a, you know, a ferocity there in in the music lead white as song that really kind of points to I guess the future that we were all sort of hoping for from Elliott Smith, then a song it sort of goes beyond his sort of acoustic folksy roots. But with just all his intensity there. And let's hear that blood white by Elliott Smith..
"elliott smith" Discussed on Last Podcast on the Left
"Myth will how how did they get to Elliott Elliott was just something he came up with and apparently he was mercilessly mocked for it at school. We'll nickname I, it's just a different name. He walked into he, yes, he kept his sadness was both real and also I'm going to go on limit here. Phone attack me for this. Oh, it was a little. He also wore at like armor as well, and because he didn't wanna go with Steve Smith because he said that sound like being a jock. So Elliott Smith made him sound more sensitive? I don't. I, we're when you walk into school and you're just like, I'm Elliott. Now everyone's like your name is Steve and Elliott's not a derivative of stave. It's, I don't know if you can just do you can do whatever you do I, but I also think your friends also have a right to be like, so now you're Elliott, but there's a lot of talk going out whether or not his. His death was a suicide or murder. There's a lot of people try to put it onto his flannel girlfriend, Jennifer Chiba that was he was helping her band at the time and there's some their parents. They had horrible fight that day that he was that the his death occurred. And there's some people saying that number one, twenty g's the fucking Mexican cartels which seems kind of far off. And there's another view that Jennifer Chiba herself murdered him, which I also think is very intense to say. So let me let me just set the scene over twenty first around one pm echo park in Los Angeles. What year we talking here two thousand three. Okay, Elliott Smith and Jennifer Chiba in their apartment in echo park, they start having argument. The argument apparently is Jennifer Chiba recently had a DUI and was trying to get a ride to her therapist appointment and that apparently everything off in motion. They start yelling and screaming at each other. Jennifer Chiba runs to the bathroom and locks the door. Elliott Smith is pounding on the door to let her in. He's crying about five to ten minutes late. Later she hears a scream and thud. She opens the door. She finds Elliott lane on the floor with two plunging wounds chest. And that's what happened in. One of in one of the wounds was the knife still in its chest. So she rips the knife out of his chest. Oh, maybe not the right idea and calls nine one and she performed CPR the cop show up. They take him away twenty minutes later. He dies of extinguishing, which is no more blood. Yeah, he bled all say no more blood. That's weird to me. I don't know. She might have gotten off a little easy here. I'm not saying that she didn't anything. I don't know, but I feel cops, usually I, I don't know. I just feel like they may have charge there. Well, actually, if you look at the autopsy, the mode of death is undetermined because of a couple of different factors. They didn't even call it a suicide, officially realize it was so open end. Has she spoken about also she's she's done with the things done thing is say anything for a while. All right. And then she recently kind of came out and started talking a little bit about it because we'll get into some of the autopsy discrepancies to knife wounds to himself. Apparently, I one was two inches. Second one was seven inches. It's not easy to do. No, no hesitation marks. See on drugs or sober. He was completely sober. How do you? I don't know how anyone to do. That's the thing. Like two inches then. Seven. That is really fucking being deliberate about your suicide. Yeah. In the most unorthodox way with, they also say that the hesitation points because that's what they said is common in suicide by stab wound. There's a has marks or the first couple kind of like searching stabs are done. But what if they were on the same Mark and on his arms also they think he had or the somewhat suppose that he had defensive wounds on his arms. Although I feel he had he had a kid a on his left arm cut on his right arm and then to cuts on his hands. Well, those are defensive, wasn't offensive. It was. He was also a cutter, so he was probably slicing and dicing himself..
"elliott smith" Discussed on You Made It Weird with Pete Holmes
"And she came over it was a very difficult break of it took ten times ten times breaking up to finally stick and that album i discovered that album and i was listening to that album obsessively yeah i know you know this the way that music and time stamp oh yeah a little journal entry yeah i kept it in the breakup you know what i mean i can still listen to it so it's okay right that's good i like you doesn't it in the divorce okay she can't have it but we you know did we so we helped you did help that's what i'm fucking todd okay it's like that delving into something that's unpleasant i said this before and it's cheesy and it's actually from kick ass two but they take pain and make something good i have my phone remind me of different things you know how you can yeah that's the reminder i see every morning when i wake up at morning i go take pain and make something something's making you anxious something's making you hurt you do that and you did that and then i'm breaking up with somebody in backwards what comes on yeah as i intended i'd kinda sound like a home that's right it solidarity i'm not alone no everyone's done this yep and it's going to be okay i believe that's that's something that is really important in songs no not just my own songs about you know you i there's a time to wallow but there has to be there has to be an upward surge of the end not happens i try and i try to compass that within that kind of movement within every every song by the end of the song no my bleakly the begins yep there's a there's a just a you know a little glimmer of hope at the end and you guys make albums again i'm not like a cool person i'm not peter travers or somebody right you really make albums to me i don't shuffle frightened rabbit okay i know you may say play pedestrian verse right you know what i mean i say placing the grades i want to hear the album because when you have adt song we talked about this a little bit too we talked about elliott smith and he's a real.
"elliott smith" Discussed on My Brother, My Brother And Me
"That that temple of chogm fucking tenement of appetizers gone chorale first time i ever ate it golden corral was december twenty four jesus that was not the way that was the first institute our own no bummer policy there's nothing that's a bummer about going golden corral christmas eve the not at the year after your mom died and visiting her tomb so and then go out to dinner at golden corral yeah it's still least oppressing thing that's ever happened in a here thing thing amazing about it is it did hold on a second we're going to get back to jokes now that was a joke of a different sort so you're gonna need to get back into the vibe it kind of became straight out like zach braff dig it varies so depressing that it became funny because of like seems like character after we went to the owner of crown where like you stop playing elliott smith and he said we're not you know that scene seeing the right thing i said now see okay seen in the santa claus where he lives around denny's all the other dads there with there's that was our golden corral experience because it was packed a lot of a lot of people who commuted from the cemetery yes how did you feel the first time you ate at golden corral i one time winton eight of the golden corral yeah the gilded curto i ate there before going on to high school because dab was doing early morning remote there so i went and had a six am breakfast valley full alert in find a ton of gummy bears it is it is weird the first 'cause you're not quite a not quite a girl not yet a woman and you're in that inbetween phase where someone says there's a bunch of gummy bears up here and nobody's gonna say shit about it if you do you take your three year old golden corral on a saturday.
"elliott smith" Discussed on Popcast
"Yes hagel is suicide spelled backwards which is like yes and i've to me that felt like the moment or is like okay can we like stop with this can't balance to because it's on trend or eating ballot like really vulnerable right i hope he's not doing it because it's on trend but that was the first you're gonna pick me on them really anyway okay so he's working in this idiom of like email and just directly thinking about depression like i think i described him when i wrote about him before is like if elliott smith was in odd future that's what he's marrying and those artists when they're singing really are making music that really intimately addresses a depressed listener there's a different kind of packed there and i think just like so like speaking of elliott that way like i think i was in high school and he committed suicide that hit me on a gut level and i think it did a lot of his fans because in a way that it wouldn't have if he wasn't someone who sang about depression and then like succumb to it so there's a very intense connection there between the listener in the artist when you go into that space that he's going into it feels very personal very intimate so i think reckoning the intimate personal and really kind of searching music that he's making with the details of his personal life and it's just really tricky and i think part of what is so disappointing about him to me is like he feels in some way like he is presenting an alternative to traditional hip hop skill entities which is great we need that more of that but then on the other side he.
"elliott smith" Discussed on The Polygon Show
"Yes actually it's like a combination between cooking mama and oh god what is that name of that game where you're a cat and you have to knock everything over really cassie millimeter oh cat chasta of catastro something like that right yeah so it's you have to prepare these meals and while you're preparing these meals every so often you have to like a paul will come up in the table and you've to bat it away before he gets too because he does that every time i cook dinner it doesn't matter what it is it's like there's a table where the table meets the wall there's a tiny little gap who see this pawpaw come out of the crevice and just like scrap he will take anything turkey onions garbage haber anything that's great we what was your game yeah oh i don't know that's okay well i i don't know oh i don't sorry my game would be a visual novel obviously kind of like it wouldn't be a dating sim necessarily but basically it would be like diary entries from my diary that would be extremely sad each page would have like a different smith lyric or smits of these myths and also elliott smith will smith jaden and willow also no pink and he gets what song has she ever made she's a greater trysts smart lady never done any she's we'll shift willow she she she mix them yeah sound mixing master them.
"elliott smith" Discussed on The Bill Simmons Podcast
"It's and there was something go you know we when you look at not just like all these vogel who have died but till elliott smith and like the base player from hold all these there was some just entrenched connection between the pacific northwest depression and heroin and opiates so involved in so much in the music from that period and uh it was just kind of bad chiming for those guys because if you're depressed person who's rich and you have access to hair when it's probably going to become part of your life uh all singles on the action an airplane when the cornell thing in the news came out and i went on a whole was on gogo in slate searching uh reading stories in that there is a bunch of stories about singles that had and it even happen because like camera crowe had done the twentyfifth anniversary blu ray and it just let me in all these things it's really crazy how he was working on that movie as that whole genre was basically taking off in the studio didn't realize what they had and they didn't release the movie an eightday canada buried it they didn't know what to do with it and they the kipp they changed the title they white they wondered if they should just scrap it completely they they just they're kinda clueless with it and then the music started takeoff and then they kind of bum rushed it and i remember i just graduated college in it was like fallen 92 at thank ana in that movie came out and if.