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Are you hiring with indeed you can post a job in minutes set up screener questions than zero in on your shortlist of qualified candidates using an online dashboard get started today at indeed dot com slash podcast. That's indeed dot com slash podcast. We are on the record at the beginning of media number one volume one this is the testimony at Elizabeth hall going on the record in San Francisco, California at nine o'clock AM on July eleven to his clothes. His raise your right hand. Do you swear to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing, but the truth, I do that's the voice of Elizabeth Holmes, the founder of healthcare company theranos, and once the world's youngest self made female billionaire testimony appearing here today pursuant to the subpoena. She's giving testimony under oath in the summer of twenty seventeen. She's sitting in what looks like an empty conference room for blonde hair pulled back in a messy bun. Her eyes are wide and unblinking. She sitting across from twelve attorneys being grilled as the government investigates. Whether she helped orchestrate an elaborate ears long fraud. Did it concern you that a number of tests weren't working on thoroughness is devices? I know that we made mistakes. Not so long ago. Elizabeth was silicon valley's rising star a healthcare pioneer is being compared to visionaries like Bill Gates and Steve Jobs. As wonder face was plastered across magazine covers and she was on TV all the time. This is a revolutionary community furnace to change healthier the same way that Amazon change reach at orange elemental chase community or apple. Yes. Changed the cell phone. It could be that. You heard technology was poised to change healthcare forever. Do you want to know about every element of your health? Well, people say, yes. Secure. She is being interviewed by Bill Clinton. You founded this company twelve years ago. Right. Tell them how old you are. I was nineteen. So. Don't worry about the future. We're in good hands. So her board was a who's who of government heavyweights, George Shultz General Mattis, Henry Kissinger, and some of the most wealthy in connected people in the world invested millions DeVos family, the Walton family Rupert Murdoch even the Kraft family from the New England Patriots. You've got this really smart female CEO who's going to do a wonderful thing for the world. Right. It is a great story. You want it to work. We all want that to work. But Elizabeth is now under criminal indictment facing up to twenty years in prison and her company wants valued at nearly ten billion dollars is now worthless. This is an investigation by the securities and Exchange Commission, and the matter if they're in his thing can determine whether there have been of certain provisions of the federal securities laws. It's a story of greed, and it's. Story of incredible deception. I think it's probably the the most interesting fraud case I've dealt with Bernie Madoff, it'd be second. And you think they're similar people. I think the very similar people, smart, charming bullies. I'm your host, Rebecca Jarvis I've been covering business for more than a decade from the housing collapse to the fall of Bear Stearns to the Bernie Madoff scandal. But no story comes close to the saga of Elizabeth homes. There was an office. Romance. Did you ever tell investors that you relationships? Billions of dollars at stake. Everyone who invested in those lost it all. And an incredible tragedy. I shouldn't own that things were much longer than they should have been in the next six episodes might team Taylor done, Victoria Thompson. And I travel the country tracking down former theranos employees patients board members and investors who got caught up with Elizabeth homes. It's just a moral breakdown at the highest level. And I gotta be honest even talking to you guys. Now, there's still a part of me that has fear and will hear for the first time never before aired testimony hundreds of hours worth condensed and edited here for time. You'll hear from Elizabeth her partner sunny ball, Wani, her brother, and the people at the center of this story as this defiant founder continues to this day to deny any wrongdoing with this is what happens when you work to change things. I think you're crazy than they fight you. And then all of a sudden you change the world. From ABC radio in Nightline. This is the dropout chapter one myth making. So much of this story is about a woman with stars in her eyes and a sense of her own destiny. But where did this sense of confidence come from in a college dropout with so little experience? When Elizabeth Holmes was nine years old. She wrote a letter to her father what I really want out of life. She said is to discover something new something that mankind. Didn't know was possible to do Elizabeth at age seven, according to a New Yorker profile drew a complete design for a time machine. Telling the writer years later, the wonderful thing about the way, I was raised is that no one ever told me that I couldn't do those things Elizabeth was born in Washington DC in nineteen Eighty-four her mom. Noel used to be a policy aide on the hill and her dad Christian worked at a number of government agencies and even briefly for Enron. The what's celebrated energy giant which came crashing down. In one of the greatest frauds in American history. Sorry. It's hard to track down friends and family from those early days willing to go on record. But we did talk to one former family friend who had a lot to say about those early years in Washington. I think was a family that took nice things we seriously. I'm just going to start by having you saying and spelling your name. Is Joseph J O S E P H fuse of U S Z. Joe fuse is an attorney and inventor. He's the type of guy you can pick your wearing a smart well-cut suit. He came to know the homes family when his dad and stepmom move next door in the late eighties. When did you first meet, Elizabeth homes? I wanted met her twenty twenty some years ago. Plus, she would have been eight to ten eight matter. Yeah. Elizabeth was the daughter of a friend by stepmother's ah. They were living in Washington DC at the time had been neighbors at one point. Joe step. Mom, Lorraine and Elizabeth's mom Noel became fast friends. It would certainly go out as a as as a foursome. But I think it is the relation was principally between the Noel, and my step mom. How would you describe Mr.? And MRs homes Elizabeth's parents or Dutt could be charming God in a kind of washed big way of well-mannered certainly wanted to be the very German guy. The father would speed quite often about their age. They really took the man to his family history. Visors saying b but but he's a and somebody's probably one of the last of the Mohicans, I think this wasp. Our stock receiving the US's kind of dying out Christian homes is claim to fame seem to be his family. Ties to the Fleishman yeast fortune. It was a powerful company with lots of money, but over generations the wealth had dried up, and according to Joe that bothered Christian. You had a real sense of entitlement in terms of of the traditional importance of his family that it's eroded over the years. I think this seeds of Elizabeth's grandiose vision or fantasy as it were for her business. I think burning much connects to this paradise lost guide of family mythology. You have to consider Joe's opinions in this context. The families would come to have a major fallout years later leading Elizabeth to sue Joe's father, Richard and his sons over a patent dispute which theranos later one. But most people who know the situation agree with Joe's assessment. Here's Wall Street Journal reporter, John Kerry real who's been covering the theranos story for many years. What do you think it w-? Was about money that she was so attracted to and being incredibly wealthy. I think the parents very much urine for those days of your when the family, you know, was one of the richest in America. And I think Elizabeth channel that at a young age, you know, there's a an anecdote where she's nine or ten years old. And she is asked by relative the question that every boy and girl is asked eventually, which is what do you wanna do when you grew up and she answers immediately. I want to be a billionaire and the relative says don't you want to be president? And she says, no, the president will marry me because they'll have a billion dollars that fierce ambition came out in school. Elizabeth was a top student. She ran track and studied Mandarin on the weekends. Here's how honors physics teacher. Errol Turk remembers her when I think of Elizabeth homes. The biggest thing that comes to mind is her points. And I remember when when a hetero in class, I remember. Just the way that she carried herself almost like a dancer carries herself on stage with this kind of can do attitude chin up on. So she was always very composed. And you know, even when she had questions, even when things were confusing. She just still had this kinda presence about her that stuck out in my mind from what you know of Elizabeth in high school. How would you describe her in one sentence? She's the kind of student that I could hand my car keys to and I noted comeback safe and with a tankful of gas. Wow. How many students do you trust that way? Not very many not very many when it came to applying to college Elizabeth knew exactly where she wanted to go Stanford University in the heart of Silicon Valley. Phyllis Rebecca good to senior to see you. So here we are on the Stanford University campus. That's that's correct. This is the medicalised gardeners. Been a professor of medicine here for more than thirty years, and she's seen her share of talented students. She's got close cropped blonde dish gray hair, a warm personality and a sharp wit. So Paul g Allen building right here. Right. Gates building. Right over there. David Packers William Hewlett, Jerry Yang. Do you ever walk by these buildings with all of these names on them and think? Wow. The epicenter. I do I do. This would have been Elizabeth homes. I storm dorm room bright magin coming as a student. It'd be fun. Be ideal. Like actually feels pretty. In this new environment. Elizabeth was full of big ideas. What was your first meeting with Elizabeth homes? Like, so Elizabeth was brought to me by a person who'd been the former president of Panasonic saying to me that she was this brilliant, girl, and she had this wonderful business idea. The idea was simply that she was going to make a microphone Wittig patch to sample blood to test for infectious organisms, and then deliver antibiotics through the same micro flu Riddick channels. Now that's not possible because the antibiotics are not potent. And I don't want to go into the details. But I kept Sandra this. I'm sorry that doesn't work the reason antibiotics hangover even bags of fluid when you're doing it this way is because they're not potent. And you can't put it through a micro fluidity channel. So how did she respond to the criticism just kind of blinked rise and not? It and left. It was just a sign nineteen year old talking who taken one course in Michael Wittig since she thought she was going to make something of it. So Elizabeth moved onto another member of the faculty highly respected. Well, liked professor in the engineering school at Stanford Channing Robertson, she took his class freshman year. All my exams are take him as much time as you're what that's the way. Life is you're going to be given problems in life. And you're going to be able to go sit someplace quiet and think about them and not have the stress of an exam. I did horrible here. He is speaking in a deposition about meeting. Elizabeth I met her when she came to my office when she was a freshman at Stanford. And I believe it was the fall of two thousand and two. She inquired us whether or not she could work in my lab. Elizabeth took her idea this patch that could test for disease and deliver medication and spent five days on a school vacation writing a, Pat. And even though this was all still theoretical Channing was impressed. He believed in her, but Phyllis Gardner had her doubts. He was her mentor, and he was heavily involved in the company from day one at which point I became quite disappointed in him, and I've told him so twice. And what did he say? Who's a an affable enough guy who says it's going to work and everything's fine. I introduced her to a couple of venture capitalists that I felt would sit down and chat with her about her vision her aspirations, so Elizabeth homes convince you to become a director. Didn't take much convincing. That was very intrigued by her vision and felt it would be a really interesting proposition two to being gauged. She asked me if I would be on our board. And I said, yes. Years later. Robertson would tell Bloomberg BusinessWeek magazine. I think there are people who are the Mozarts and the Beethoven's and the Newton's in the Vaasie as in the Stein's in the davinci's who come along rarely in a generational sets. These people who become scientists and artists and musicians, I think possess a very special capability, it was becoming more and more clear to me that she had it. I was in the presence of somebody who is unlike anything that I had seen before. Elizabeth dropped out. Just like Steve Jobs to start her own company. It would come to be called their nose a mix of therapy and diagnosis. She started raising money many of the traditional healthcare science venture capitalists past. There were a lot of MD PHD's in that world, and they didn't buy that Elizabeth's idea could work, but a number of wealthy families poured in millions like, Tim Draper, a third generation investment guy. His daughter Jessie is a good friend of Elizabeth's. He cut Elizabeth a million dollar check. Funding started to fall into place, and she had a Stanford professor on board. So Elizabeth with less than two years of college officially dropped out of Stanford in March two thousand four to work on her business full-time. Her idea had changed. She now wanted to make a portable device that could run multiple tests with just a drop or two of blood from the finger rather than those standard, traditional painful, Venus draws that were so used to now when we talk about ideas that could change the world. This actually is one millions of people have blood drawn for tests every day, and it can be a long and painful process for anyone who's had their blood drawn the traditional way, it's not a pleasant experience. There can be times when the nurse struggles to find a vein. There's the poking around the potential bruising, it stays with you Elizabeth's plan was a system to test blood that would only need a tiny pinprick just a drop that would have been a game changer. Actually, originally did not intend to drop out of Stanford. But I wasn't going to any classes, and I was spending all my time talking VC's. And so then logistically, it just seemed like a waste of money because it was, you know, taking twenty units, and I wasn't showing up. So I'm so then I just made a decision that I was going to figure out how to make it work. By February of two thousand five less than a year. After starting the company. She'd raised six million dollars and Channing Robertson had joined theranos fulltime as a board member. Soon. Elizabeth was attracting other big name board members. There was Donald Lucas senior agai known for spotting other young talent he was an original backer of Larry Ellison, the founder of oracle and Lucas saw similar promise in Elizabeth. This is Lucas in an oral history interview. He taped for a project at UC Berkeley in two thousand nine surely comes in. I think she probably was twenty one years old. Left. Stanford didn't graduate? She had a company called thoroughness. And and I thought this is going to be a short conversation, but she had no background in business. And so that is quite presumptious for somebody's I'm going to be president. But. Here's an important distinction. Her great grandfather was an entrepreneur very successful. So that was one side that's preneurs side. But she was in the medical. It turns out later her the hospital in their where they lived is named after her great uncle, so she came by both of these the two things that are necessary here one medicine and the other entrepreneur. Quite naturally. Yeah. Shoes attracted to Soviet. But they could by two thousand five Elizabeth began to make some very bold groundbreaking claims to the press about her invention. I'm Moir good. And this is a special tech nation. Audio segment. You're listening to our regional unedited interview with Elizabeth homes president and CEO of theranos exactly how big is it. What does it do? What you gotta do. If you're using it. So it's a hand held device, and it's fully integrated. The only thing you have to do is hold your finger or you could actually do any part of your hand or your arm up toward the device extracts a little from your hands. Exactly. It's a little teeny. Needle that pulls a little teeny drop of blood. And when it gets the drop of blood, basically it runs it through what we call a biochip which separates out all of the cells and other types of analysts in your blood, which could traditionally clog, a biosensor and then in real time runs, many different chemistries. She was charming and convincing an early supporters were data. Filled the drug cons. Elizabeth also seemed to know the power of a good story like this moving anecdote about her uncle which came up again. And again, I grew up spending summers and the holidays with my uncle. I remember his love of crossword puzzles and trying to teach us to play football. I remember how much he loved the beach. I remember how much I loved him. He was diagnosed one day with skin cancer. Which all of a sudden was brain cancer and in his bones. He didn't live to see his son grow up. And I never got to say goodbye. Elizabeth focused a lot on loss. The power of losing someone close to you became sort of a mantra repeated again and again world in which people don't have to say goodbye to soon. They say goodbye to soon. No one ever has to say if only I'd known sooner. Elizabeth would come to say that her devices could save soldiers in medevac helicopters on the battlefield in Afghanistan that it could help people all over the world. We see a world in which no one has to go through the pain of traditional bottoming. I remember reading an Email from the father of a little girl. He talked about taking her to the hospital and watching as they stuck her soft tissue again and again in the search for what he called the tiny invisible vein. Elizabeth wanted to be nothing short of revolutionary. She wanted to change people's lives in the world forever. According to those around her at the time, Elizabeth envisioned herself as the next Steve Jobs. When it comes to hiring. You don't have time to waste you need help getting to your shortlist of qualified candidates fast. That's why you need indeed dot com. Get started today at indeed dot com slash podcast. That's indeed dot com slash podcast. Hey, if you're into the dropout if you like great investigative journalism, if you like taking a headline and then getting the real story and check out start here. It's daily news podcast from ABC news breaking down a handful of the biggest stories of the day all in twenty minutes from politics. Yes. We are witnessing a crisis. It's just not the one the president is talking about to our biggest investigations alot, Robert Muller. Michael Cohen calling to Rebecca Jarvis. Yes. Rebecca from this podcast explaining the business world in a way that actually makes sense. If you think about it like the porridge story not too hot not too cold. That's exactly what the fed is going for here. I'm Brad milkey from ABC news. And my mission is simple to get you. Smart fast. So start here. Listen on apple podcasts over ever. You're listening. Now. Renews was growing quickly homes had to hire a lot of technology people to realize vision for a pinprick test. She wanted her company to have the same design. I is that it is apple was with was very obsessed with apple a lot of the folks that she hired during our period where x apple Ana Arianna is a former apple product designer. She's funny and personable and loves minimalist design something she incorporated when she helped create the look of the iphone. She was one of Elizabeth's first recruits and a big get for theranos when I was asked to meet this particular person who's leading this stealth startup on. I didn't know who it wasn't the time, and it was a bit of a clandestine meeting, and it turned out to be Elizabeth homes. We had a great conversation. It sounded like an incredibly compelling mission. That was basically really thinking about the betterment of humanity. She's incredibly passionate, she's very energetic, very expressive with her hands. It has a very unique distinctive voice that you just kinda drawn into what it is that she's conveying in her conviction inner belief really shines through she really did believe she was changing the world. As did we this was a once in a lifetime opportunity to jump ship, and we jumped ship, and unfortunately, I left fifteen thousand shares an apple but Saint Louis life continues on. On a joint theranos as its chief design architect responsible for the look and feel of the Edison. Their noses breakthrough technology. It looks like a black rectangular box about the size of a desktop printer. There's a light up screen in front. The machine was supposed to process those tiny blood tests and Elizabeth naturally wanted the screen to resemble the iphones and the casing to look like the original MAC, Elizabeth had a vision. But according to Ana Elizabeth didn't look the part. So she would wear these frumpy Christmas sweaters, you know, things you would only see during the holiday season. And I was like, okay. But how the clothing came into play. She was very curious about Steve's attire. And I explained to her that he was inspired by Sony's heritage of having e-. Same Samuakai come in and create a lot of the line manager apparel on in that eventually led Steve to get the rocky black turtleneck that is historically known. And so I've pointed that out to her, and then I think she went often track down who e Samiullah's and the rest is poor history for say, she did change her her aesthetic. And I think it was for the best soon. Elizabeth was wearing black turtlenecks just like Steve Jobs. Some Phyllis Gardner say even her voice also changed dramatically into a low serious baritone when she gave me she didn't have a low voice. She didn't know what was her voice like which just typical undergrad student when I next Sargon. She says. This low voice, and I call him my God, it was quite often. You were thrown we didn't know that it wasn't her voice until much later in all my interactions with her. She never fell out of character that was her voice. But other people that I worked with actually had caught her fallout voice. I think it was at one of the company parties, and maybe she had a little bit too much to drink or whatnot. But she fell out of character. And exposed that that wasn't necessarily her voice. Maybe she needed to be more convincing to project persona within a room amongst male VC's. I'm not really, quite sure. On also started to notice other behavior that surprised her you often I come into work really early because I have kids since I was usually one of the first people to arrive at the office. Elizabeth might have beat me before. But we sometimes would pull up in the parking lot together. And I just remember she had a unique private sense. She was rocking and slamming her head to hip, hop music, just fully rocking out. And I was like I don't think I was meant to see that. Elizabeth kept successfully recruiting from Apple's ranks poaching several of honest, former colleagues, so where are we right now, we're at Kupa cafe in Palo Alto. This is where you would meet Elizabeth this is where we met. Elizabeth this is where. But for people outside of Silicon Valley, this is a place where tech people would come in chat about big news. They still have. I think there's a reputation with this place that like things happen here deals your conversations happen. So it fits like a never, right? It's like fits into that story somewhere over there. There's a forty million dollar check. On his old apple colleagues, Justin Maxwell and Adam Fulmer soon came on board along with Mike Bauer Lee whose wife had worked at apple with both of them. So would you call yourselves buddies work, buddies? Oh, yeah. For sure Mike injustice, worked on honest team designing the Edison and other products software. So Justin starting with you. What made you take the offer on and others involved in my recruiting having hyped it up so much. I had just gone in there with this expectation that I was meeting brilliance. And so that thinking that I was meeting the next Steve Jobs next is after Burg something like that. That just created this impression of I was in awe of this person's drive. So for me, this was something that could make a positive dent on humanity. Adam was an engineer generally. I was like, yeah. This is somebody I want to come work for we wanted to see her become that Bill later like everybody wants to work for the next few jobs. It wasn't long before they started to see they were designing something in the apple style for technology that really didn't exist. Like there was an overall feeling of like, we have absolutely no need for apple designers here that didn't make sense at first. But then as we started to learn from people saying the tech doesn't work or the scientists matching up then we understood right? That's why you don't want us here. It's not because you don't like us as people is that like we actually can't provide value to this company right now, if the under the foundation isn't working on top of that they say Elizabeth arranged things. So that everyone was purposely silo, and they were sworn to secrecy to protect what Elizabeth felt were trade secrets, but it was like the left hand. Didn't know what the right. Hand was doing. I would be on Mike are managing. It was like actively kind of trying to foster this competition or I don't know how a complete distrust for the organization that she'd built under her. But despite this chaos, she even managed to poach offi Tavini in from apple. He was Steve Jobs right hand at the company. He led the software team that developed MAC OS ten obviously, even in the Steve Jobs movie like this. I'll be today's our chief softwares, and he wrote a demo program is likely built a great car. We haven't built the engine. We put a golf cart battery in there to make a gopher a little bit, AVI. Joined the board in two thousand six but quickly got frustrated with what he was seeing. I think what you didn't expect was I would actually ask a lot of questions and that if things weren't going as they should be going that I would ask tough questions. How would she respond when you would ask tough? Questions. You know, she was really good at I would say deflecting them. So it was generally probably I would say more of a non answer or a evasive answer. Which is we don't have the contract right now. Maybe I can get that for you later things like that. He wasn't the only one confused by the company. It seemed like employees were being hired and fired really quickly. Here's Justin Elizabeth did a great job of recruiting amazing people. I would watch those people that I trusted disappear. Our office was right next to the general counsel and the head of business development. Both of them were people had tremendous admiration for they were extremely sharp and knew the industry, very well. And they just vanished. And then I think like two weeks after I started the CFO was just like promptly fired or disappeared. Right. And. That was disconcerting on them theranos is chief design architect notice the same thing should do not want to hear other people's opinions. She wanted positive results. I think that you know, anyone who basically told Elizabeth no now disagreed with her perspective and point of view, you were immediately terminated it was just a very unusual environment. Yeah. There were posts to glass doors website from employees wear. They acquitted it to a South American dictatorship or a drug cartel. How would you describe the culture of their in house? Justin. I watching people that I really trusted vanish. And then actually noticed thing that this person is willing to lie to me about extremely trivial unimportant things. And how do you know? She lied. Oh, because we were discussing some product design over Email, and she was expecting me to stay in the office late to finish it up. And she's said something the fact of you know, like I can't I can't help without right now. But I will get back to you when I'm in the office tomorrow, and she was actually just in an office right down the hall from me, and you could see her sending you. So I walked over to her and had a bit of an argument with her and then walked back to my office. And she stormed after me came in and shut the door behind me and said don't ever walk off on me again. But did she acknowledge that she had lied to you? Of course, not and things went beyond. What implies say it was casual lying just as Elizabeth had convinced the apple recruits to come aboard to design a product for technology that didn't yet exist. She was trying to sell a product to big pharma that wasn't ready. One incident was particularly troubling to Ana Elizabeth had convinced a major drug company to let their nose test. It's technology on terminal cancer patients in a study in Tennessee, really vulnerable people this made on a really nervous. There were patients who are third and fourth stage on college cancer patients at the university of Tennessee that had given up their basically their blood to test this device we had gotten word from Adam Volmer who was mechanical engineer working on the internal mechanism for the device that light was seeping in and with light seeping in corrupted the blood too. Elementary data thus corrupting data that was a very unfortunate situation. And as it turned out like we had all this various sensitive chemistry that of people were working on. And it could be as precise as you wanted. But if you screwed up the introduction of the blood into this cartridge it was game over you would get a wildly wrong result. Right. But I think we all knew from where we sat that like, it seemed like we were very long way away from having a working product are going into the study fell utterly premature relatives where we were at. They just weren't like we weren't generating reliable reproducible data. These employees didn't know the test results wouldn't impact the actual treatments given to these cancer patients and would just be for research purposes. Elizabeth kept that detail for most theranos employees regardless they hated making such vulnerable people, Guinea pigs. Did you raise the red flag? Did you internally say? Say I think this is a problem that sort of feedback just went like. Generally ignored Dr enough cycles dot it just felt like there were people like myself and others who disagreed with a lot of these decisions and just being. Overlooked again, we gun on a confronted Elizabeth to that information was suppressed, and so I said I'm going to take this Elizabeth directly and have a conversation with her of which I did. And she basically conveyed to me that I should not intervene that this is an incredibly critical juncture in the company's current fundraising. And I was like that's unacceptable from unethical perspective, I just cannot stomach it, and I confronted her with this information, and she gave me an ultimatum suppress it and continue on business as usual or I said I was resigning and I decided to resign nights slipped. My resignation letter underneath or door and under the head of HR is door. And I left for home. She inevitably found out that I had resigned. And she frantically tried calling me I would not take her phone calls. I just literally had nothing. I wanted to do with that company anymore on his departure left. Her former recruits stunned on just said, you know, Elizabeth is lying. She told everyone that tech in this situation worked and it didn't work at all. And I'm going to go be a fulltime chef for my family. Sounds like a pretty big one eighty. Yeah. But soon they'd be out the door to Justin sent Elizabeth to management books and a pretty epic letter of resignation. Do you mind? Reading starting on that second paragraph. Hi, I'm resigning. Good luck. And please do read those books watch the office and believe in the people who disagree with you. I wish I could say better things. But I think you know, exactly what is going on at their theranos lying disgusting habit, and it flows through the conversations here like it's our own currency. But I really. Truly believe you know, it already and for some reason I can't figure out you allow it to continue. I feel like oh, you this bad attempt at an exit interview since we have no HR to officially record it Justin Maxwell years later. Justin would see her just one more time. Yeah. There was this point in. I think two thousand twelve and I was standing in a CVS covered it in my own blood. Having just been hit by a car, and I turn and I was picking up like vicodin or something and Elizabeth's right behind me. She's like, hi, Justin, totally regardless of the fact that obviously just been hit by a car. I was on a bike. And she she just says, you know, we'd really would really benefit from having you in the company right now. You know, shame that things turned out the way that they did or whatever just like, okay? It's really good seeing you Elizabeth thank. So I didn't think knowledge in any way. No. There was just like you would just been hit by a car. No. It was it was so. On a certain AVI ran into the same problems with trust. He says he started to raise issues when it was proposed that their nose transfers some stock into a nonprofit foundation that might sound innocuous. But basically, it would give Elizabeth even more control over the company because by controlling the phone there. She would've voted control the shares. Void didn't make any sense to me. And it wasn't that big a deal in the grand scheme of things. Oh than it. Didn't make any sense word got back to her. I think that I raised an objection to this. And I think this is this was the last straw for her. And for me word got back to Elizabeth through Don Lucas that board member you heard from before who wants helped Larry Ellison get his start then. Elizabeth goes dark on me. And Don Lucas called me. So went to visit him, and he said, you know, Elizabeth would like you to resign from the board cutting to the chase. He literally said too many questions by this point AVI was irritated and seriously question many claims Elizabeth and theranos had made. And it was like, oh, something is very wrong here all these promises. None of them have happened. All these people involved, they're all gone and nothing even lined up. And so. I pull this all together. All this information together printed it all I said, Don, okay. I'm gonna give you choice. I think that there is a chance this company can make this product work, and I would love to stick around with you and help you to make it work. And we probably need to revisit how Lisbeth rule and everything else and do a few few things I'm happy to stick around and do that. Or if you want all resign twice. He said I want you to resign. It was like out of a movie, and there's the prized that he said I'd like for you to resign. I shouldn't have been. But I was and I was the reason I was surprised was because. I done all this work to find so many things that were clearly broken many of which to me were fixable. And I guess I had just naively assumed that Don would listen, but. He was just his goal. Then I think was just a support Elizabeth, and he believed everything that she said, Don, honestly, believe that. She was the next Steve Jobs. But the meeting didn't just end with obvious resignation. No, Don said he needed one more thing from AVI it actually gets weirder. So I told on I'm going to resign have the lawyers some of the paperwork all sign it and send it in as I get. And I pushed the paper to him give it to him as I get up to walk out the door. Don says to me, oh before you go I need you to sign something else. I'm like, what do you need me to sign and he says, well, Elizabeth is going to buy some shares from another founder in a private transaction. And I'm like dawn, I'm not just going to blindly sign something on that. He was sure that makes sense. And so then I get up and try and leave again, he said, oh, one more thing. I need you to sign your own rights away on like this is getting ridiculous. And I'm like, I don't even know what this is about just how the lawyers contact me. And I'll figure it out. Later and on Christmas Eve that year of going back and forth. It was literally at like eleven PM on Christmas Eve, the general counsel of the company sends me an Email saying we need you to sign this. And oh, by the way, it's come to our attention that you've been disparaging the company and saying negative things to people in general about the company and accompanying our stage cannot afford to be disparaged like this essentially saying they're going to me unless I sign this agreement to give up my rights, then this is this was Christmas Eve, I'm getting this Email, so they threatened to see you on Christmas Eve. Yeah. Basically the thinking about that close from I don't think it was a literal threat, but it was pretty close. Avi on the advice of a good friend, who's an attorney relented and signed the papers. I would won. There's no question. It probably I think it would have kind of exposed her and exposed the company for on Wednesday being a fraud. But for not being totally legit. And he kind of he said, what is that really your responsibility? And do you want to spend all this money in a lawsuit just to do that? He's like the pike onto guava business. Anyway, right. And I said, you're right. And so the next thing I just signed the forms, and what my hands of it. So you were done with their annouce. I was done with us. I had seen so many things that were. Bad go on. I will never expected. Anyone would behave the way that she behaved as a CEO and believe me I worked for Steve Jobs. I saw some crazy things. But Elizabeth took it to a new level with you know, personal attacks threats of lawsuits. Lockouts quitting. And losing the guy who is Steve Jobs right hand that would kill a lot of startups. But it didn't kill theranos and new people kept coming to work at the company amazingly. This was nearly nine years before the company really started to unravel. If what he says was true how could things have gone on as long as they did. While Elizabeth became a superstar in the process. In the next episode of the dropout cash is running out and Elizabeth brings in a new right hand with deep pockets. Did you ever tell investors that unions Volonte had a romantic relationship at the time that you were asking to doesn't bareness? They continue to, cultivate, an environment of extreme secrecy. There was definitely like a culture of fear. I don't know exactly how it started. But it was definitely there. And as the technology gets ready to hit the market were they about to potentially put millions of lives at risk. Elizabeth holmes? Lorraine fused, Channing Robertson. Donald Lucas didn't respond or declined to comment for this podcast. The dropout is written and produced by Taylor. Don, Victoria Thompson. And me editors are Chris brew bay and Evan viola freidan. Our theme song. A researchers are Victor ordinance and lane win. Our artwork is by tiny blinks chips. NY? The dropout is a production of Nightline ABC radio and ABC's business unit. Gentlemen is the supervising producer and Steven Baker is the executive producer Eric runs ABC's specialized units, thanks to the team ABC radio. Steve Jones, Andrew kelp. Josh Cohen and people as and to the Wall Street Journal's John Kerry row, author of bad blood whose investigative reporting first exposed this remarkable story. He sure to subscribe to the dropout podcast. And if you like what you heard leave us a review was new episodes of the dropout every Wednesday.
Aired Aired just now 3:55
Introducing 'The Dropout'
Hey, no, limits listeners. It's Rebecca and I'm coming to you with a special and short. I promise short announcement about a new podcast that I've been working on for the last three years. It's called the dropout. And it tells the story of Elizabeth homes. She's a Stanford dropout turned founder and CEO of the tech company. Theranos now this was supposed to be a game changing company one that would change healthcare forever. She was once the youngest self made female billionaire. She was heralded as the next Steve Jobs, but the whole thing came crashing down amid accusations of massive fraud. And now she is facing if convicted up to twenty years in jail in the dropout, you'll hear from Elizabeth homes in her own words through never before aired deposition tapes, and you'll hear from all the central figures at all chapters of this story as many of you know, I've been covering business now for more than ten years, the housing collapse, the fall of Bear, Stearns, the Bernie Madoff scandal, and this story agenda Manley. Tops them all with the intrigue and mystery, there's an office romance, billions of dollars at stake and even tragedy. The podcast is written and produced by me Taylor Dunn who you guys are familiar with. She's my producer of no limits as well. And Victoria Thomson. And I really hope you'll take a listen. Here's our trailer. This is the testimony of Elizabeth halts gung on the record in San Francisco, California at nine o'clock. This is the story of the rise. And fall of the world's youngest self made female billionaire concern you that a number of tests weren't working on thoroughness devices. I know that we made mistakes not so long ago. Stanford dropout turn CEO. Elizabeth Holmes was a rising star in Silicon Valley detect us medical conditions based on only drops of blood from from fingerprints on Charlie rose. She did CBS this morning. Nineteen years old. Elizabeth Holmes dropped out of Stanford. And and then I mean on and on and on no one ever seen this year at of Mirtha, while her company theranos was poised to change healthcare forever. If she had made this work. She would have been the next jobs, but today, Elizabeth homes is under criminal indictment. She pleaded not guilty, but she's facing up to twenty years in prison if convicted so how did it happen? That's the story of greed, and it's a story of incredible deception in the dropout. We'll look at how homes initially one over everybody from investors to politicians to the media. And we'll tell you how it all came crashing down through exclusive interviews and never before her depositions to your knowledge did MS homes know at the time, she made those statements that theranos could not do all those tests. Yeah. She. I'm Rebecca Jarvis I've been covering business for more than a decade from the housing collapse to the fall of Bear Stearns to the Bernie Madoff scandal. But no story comes close to the mystery and intrigue of Elizabeth home. You've got this really smart female CEO who's going to do a wonderful thing for the world. It is a great story. We all want that to work. Subscribe to the dropout wherever you get your podcast look out for our first episode January twenty third. Okay. So you have your marching orders subscribed today to the dropout. We're going to leave a link to the show the dropout in the description here. So that you could just literally go there and click on it. Or if you prefer go out and search for the dropout wherever you're listening to podcast right now. And I'll see you right back here with a brand new episode of no limits next week as always I really appreciate your interest and your support.
No Limits with Rebecca Jarvis
Aired 8 months ago 2:36
Interesting and unexpected career paths from the University of Melbourne
Sandra back from jer to Melwood and I get a flat tire. But that's okay. A motor, man. I know what to do a pullover. I get out of the car. I get my phone out. And I do go. How do you change a flat tire? But there was no reception. So what I did. Then was I sat down to die. It's hard to make a living from comedy that are plenty of funny. People who spend their nights making people laugh, but very few are able to give up the day job. Simon Taylor is one of the select few. Jianrong Jayasuriya Jayasuriya are at Chica. Being John Charlie Elizabeth Walsh at every graduation ceremony at the university of Melbourne Fianna price rates out the names of new graduates. Leads us, nor her knees. I read them out in Tuesday in clearly and uncomfortable, and it comes across. Kohl's kept coming from faculty Danes, and they pay as the Danes were very nervous and intimidated by the great numbers of multicultural names, though going to have to rate at a graduation ceremonies. Could you on a help with pronunciations at graduations and could she provide phonetic spellings for the names to and then inevitably could actually read the names at herself at the university of Melbourne, graduations? Kath moved from south astray Leah to study the doctor of veterinary medicine at Melbourne. She's veteran resident at zoo on an average day. She could be kidding for any one of the three thousand three hundred animals there from the tiniest fish right up to an elephant surgery that we use for any procedure that we do at the zoo, unless it's a really big animal that we might do Don enclosure, everything from the tiniest, little bowed or even fish. So we've certainly done fish on ascetic in hit. So just how do you need to a fish? Want to hear these stories and fool search for three? Oh, one or go to Uni melt dot EDU dot AU forward slash three. Oh, one for these and more brought to you by the university of Melbourne.