20 Episode results for "Electoral Fraud"
Facebook's role in Brexit -- and the threat to democracy | Carole Cadwalladr
"This. Ted talk. Features journalist Carol Cadwalader recorded live at Ted twenty nineteen. From basketball courts to courts of law. We always seem to want to blame the referee to attack the authority of the people whose job it is to ensure fairness in his first podcast. Michael Lewis, author of moneyball in the big short asks what happens when fairness can't be enforced over seven episodes against the rules takes listeners from student loan. Call centers to the courts of who's Becca, STAN and much more. Listen and subscribe for free wherever you get your podcasts. So on the day after the Brexit vote in June two thousand sixteen when Britain woke up to the shock of discovering that we're leaving the European Union my editor at the observer newspaper in the UK asked me to go back to South Wales where I grew up and to write a report. And so I went to a town called Ebi Vail. It's in the South Wales valleys, which is this quite special place. So he's had this very sort of rich working class culture is famous for its wealth male voice choirs in rugby. And it's cold though, when I was a teenager, the coal mines and the steelworks closed and the entire area was devastated. And I went there because it had one of the highest lea- votes in the country. Sixty two percent of the people here voted to leave the European Union. And I wanted to know why? When I got there. It was just a bit taken aback. This is a new soci- three million pound college a further education that was mostly funded by the European Union. And this is the new sports centre that set the middle of three hundred fifty million pounds regeneration project that spinning funded by the European Union. And this is the new seventy seven million pound road improvement scheme. And there's a new train line new railway station. They're all being funded by the European Union. And it's not as if any of this is a secret I had this sort of weird sense of unreality walking around the town, and it came to a head when I met this young man in front of the sports center. And he told me that he had voted to leave because the European Union had done nothing for him. He was fed up with it. And around town people told me the same thing. They said that they wanted to take back control, which is one of the slogans in the campaign, and they told me that they were most fed up with the immigrants and with the refugees that had enough. Which was old because we'll hear around. I didn't meet any so refugees, I met one polish woman who told me she was practically the only foreigner in town. And when I checked the figures, I discovered the bell actually has when the lowest rates of immigration in the country. And so I was just a bit baffled because I couldn't understand why people getting their information from because it was the right wing tabloid newspapers, which printed all these stories about immigration, and this is a very much a left wing. Labour stronghold. But then after the article came out this woman in touch with me, and she was from Val. And she told me about all this stuff that she'd seen on Facebook. I was like what stuff and she said it was all this quite scary stuff about immigration, especially about Turkey. So I tried to find it. But there was nothing there because there's no all cave events that people see all what had been pushed into their news feeds. No trace of anything gone completely dark. And this referendum that will have this profound effect forever on Britain. It's already had a profound effect the Japanese car manufacturers that came to wells and the northeast replaced the mining jobs. They're already going because of Brexit and this entire referendum took place in darkness because it took place on Facebook. And what happens on Facebook stays on Facebook because only see your news feed, and then it vanishes. So it's possible to research anything. So we have no idea who saw what ads or what impact they had what data is used to target these people or even who placed the ads or how much money was spent or even what nationality they were. But Facebook does. Facebook has these answers, and it's refused to give them to us. Our parliament has asked Mark Zuckerberg multiple times to come to Britain and to give us these answers and every single time. He's refused. And you have to wonder why. Because we'll I another. Journalists have uncovered is that most crimes took place June the referendum, and they took place on Facebook. Because in Britain, we limit the amount of money that you can spend in an election, and it's because in the nineteenth century people would walk around. We'd be like literally wheelbarrows of cash and just by voters. So we passed these strict laws to stop that from happening, but those rules don't work anymore. This referendum took place almost entirely online, and you can spend any amount of money on Facebook or Google or YouTube ads, and nobody will know because that black box is. And this is what happened. We've actually got no idea of the full extent of it. But we do know that in the last days before the Brexit vote. The official vote leave campaign laundered three nearly three quarters of a million pounds through another campaign entity that our electoral commission has ruled was illegal, and it's referred it to the police and with this illegal cash. Vote. Leave unleashed a fire hose of disinformation. And most of us. We never saw these ads because we were not the target of them very leave identified a tiny sliver of people who had identified as persuadable and they saw them. And the only reason we are seeing these now is because parliament forced Facebook to hand them over. And maybe you think well, it was just a bit of overspending. It's a few lies. This was the biggest electoral fraud in Burson for one hundred years in a once in a generation vote that hinged upon just one percent of the electorate. And it was just one of the crimes that took place in the referendum. There was another group which was headed by this man, Nigel Farraj and his group Levy you. It also broke the law, April British electoral laws and British data laws, and it's also being referred to the police. And this man, our banks he funded this campaign and a completely separate case. He's been referred to the national crime agency are critics of the FBI because our electoral commission has concluded. They don't know where his money came from. Or if it was even British and I'm not even going to go into the lies. The iron banks has told about his cO the relationship with the Russian government's. All the weird timing of Nigel Farraj is meetings with Julian Assange, and with Trump's, but the stone now indicted immediately before to massive we leak dumps space which happened to benefit Donald Trump. But I will tell you that Brexit and Trump were insolently entwined. This man told me that Brexit was the Petrie dish for Trump. And we know it's the same people. Same companies the same data the same techniques the same use of hate and fear. I don't have to tell you that hate and fear of being so online all across the world, not just in Britain and America, but in France, and in Hungary, and Brazil and mine mar and New Zealand, and we know that there is dark undertone, which is connecting us all globally, and it is flowing via the technology platforms. But we only see a tiny amount of what's going on on the surface. And I only found out anything about this talk underbelly because I started looking into Trump's relationship to Ferrari to accompany cou-, Cambridge Analytica. And I spent months tracking down an extra employees, Christopher Wiley. And he told me how this company that worked for both Trump and Brexit had profiled people politically in order to understand their individual fears to better target them with Facebook. And it did this by illicitly harvesting, the profiles of eighty seven million people from Facebook. It took an entire year's work to get Christopher on the record. And I had to turn myself in the feature writer into an investigative reporter to do it. And he was extraordinarily brave because the company is owned by Robert Mercer, the billionaire who Bank fraud Trump and he threatened to sue us most of people times to stop us from publishing, but we finally got there, and we will one day ahead of publication. We got another legal threat not from Cambridge Analytica this time, but from Facebook. It told us that if we publish they would sue us. We did it. Anyway. You will own the wrong side of history in that. And you were on the wrong side of history in this in refusing to give us the answers that we need. And that is why I am here to address you directly the gods of Silicon Valley. I'm Carol found book and Larry page and Sergei Brin and Jack Dorsey. And your employees. Enjoy investors too. Because one hundred years ago, the biggest danger in the South Wales coal mines was gas silent and deadly and invisible. It's why the send the Canaries down. I to check their and in this massive global online experiment that we are all living through we in Britain are the canary. We are what happens to a western democracy when one hundred years of electoral laws are disrupted by technology. Our democracy is broken our laws don't work anymore. And it's not me saying this. It's our parliament published a report saying this, this technology that you have invented has been amazing. But now it's a crime scene, and you have the evidence. And it is not enough to say that you will do better in the future. Because to have any hope of stopping this from happening. Again, we have to know the truth. And maybe you think when it was just a few ads and people are smarter than that. Right. To which I would say good luck with that. Because what the Brexit vote demonstrates is that liberal democracy is broken. And you broke it. This is not democracy spreading lies in darkness paid for with illegal cash from God knows where. It's subversion. And you are accessories to it. Our palment has been the first in the world to try to hold you to account and it's failed. You are literally beyond the reach of British law. Not just British laws. This is nine parliament's nine countries. You Mark Zuckerberg refused to come and give evidence to and what you don't see him to understand is that this is bigger than you. And it's bigger than any of us, and it is not about left or right or leave or remain or Trump or not it's about whether it's actually possible to have a free and fair election ever again. Because as it stands. I don't think he is. And so my question to you is this what you want. Is this? How you want history to remember you? As the handmaidens to authorities hairiness them that is on the rise all across the world. Because you set out to connect people, and you are refusing to acknowledge that the same technology is now driving us apart. My question to everybody else's is this what we want? To let them get away with it. And to sit back and play with our phones is this darkness falls? The history of the South Wales. Valleys is of a fight for rights, and this is not a drill. It's a point of inflection democracy is not guaranteed, and it is not inevitable, and we have to fight and we have to win, and we cannot let these tech companies have this unchecked power. It's up to us. You me and all of us. We are the ones who have to take back control. For more TED talks to Ted dot com. Ex-?
Bolivia Struggling To Transition To New Elections Following Fall Of Evo Morales
"It has been two weeks since I fell from power. In Bolivia following mass protests over allegations of electoral fraud there is now a right wing interim in president who has appointment triggered more deadly protests. She has forged an agreement with Morales Socialist Party over holding elections yet. Deep divisions remain remain at particularly over religion and peers. Philip Reeve's was recently in the capital the PAS and filed this report he did Tena is an accountancy student. She's twenty two she's also an indigenous Bolivian. Her people have been around here since long before Spanish colonialists invaded vacated some five centuries ago Martinez among a crowd calling for the return of her hero. Bolivia's first indigenous President Ever Morales Not Ninety screaming now. The Morales doesn't discriminate against anyone says Putin she's fearful that will now change. The Bolivia's interim President Unia News. And this is a conservative Christian. And former senator. Who's a staunch opponent of Maddow us? She arrived in the presidential palace. Nearly two weeks ago flourishing a huge Bible hybrid bringing the Bible back into the palace and is declares that set off alarm bells cast. It's lamentable. She says politicians shouldn't misuse the Bible. Like this many in this crowd agree they interpret and yes his Bible brandishing a sign of intolerance evoking a colonial past in which indigenous people and their beliefs but brutally repressed chilies politicians have misused the Bible to dominate donator people. Since the Conquest of America again this fee Dell Com- who's a farmer Bolivia's mostly Catholic yet. Religion is complicated here different faiths entwined entwine it's Catholic but it's a lot of Catholic syncretism with indigenous religious beliefs. Linda fathering lives in Bolivia and has written extensively about its indigenous groups. They have a great reverence for place for the earth mother. It's a very much. A nature base a set of religious practices by walking into the palace waving the Bible annual seemed to be hitting a reset button a whole reshaping of the discourse around religious symbolism. And I think superiority that's Catherine Lederberg director of the Andean Information Network A non-governmental organization specializing in human rights. You'RE GONNA hit the accountancy student. Says she believes in God she also reveals Earth Mother. The highly popular ancient Andean Daddy symbolizing life infertility. Otherwise known as Pacha. Mama the freedom to do this this matters greatly to what is Estella Flutie Nacional. That's why Bolivia is a period of national state. She says not those games eliminate Anita. The words plurinational state were added to Bolivia's official name in two thousand nine during moralities first term. It was part of a new constitution recognizing the country's thirty six indigenous groups who about forty percent of the population. The charter also recognized their freedom of worship. The campaign into House Morales was dominated by business magnates in conservative Christian named Luis Fernando Camacho on the day. Madonna's resigned Camacho arrived at the presidential palace with a flag a Bible and a priest backs the priest. Pacha Mama will never returned and that video went viral. It was a big blow to indigenous Bolivians says hockey Derby and Latin American specialist at the University of Georgia. That is it's just brutal. For a large part of the population who have been included in the Government Morales. Bolivia's interim government must now guide the deeply polarized nation to elections. It says it wants to create unity and that when president and yes wave that huge Bible she wasn't being divisive yet the bean Disturbing incidents of people burning the indigenous flag and scrolling racist graffiti. Haiti Martino. The accountancy student thinks in these troubled times Bolivians. We need to remember something. Good asks us to love each other. She says he doesn't talk about people being black or white and he doesn't say go to war for the briefs N._p._R. News Lopez.
US election 2020: why are so many Americans being denied a vote?
"Before, Americans even go to the polls. Donald Trump is claiming that the election is ranked. Over the next two episodes, we're GONNA. Look at what the president is saying Moore. It could mean for the result tomorrow, we will focus on what happens after election day if the outcome is disputed, but I today, we look at the ways that Americans are being prevented from casting a ballot at all. The. Only way we're going to lose this election is if the election is rigged, remember WanNa Donald trumps favorite themes. Head of the twenty twenty election is electoral fraud that I've been complaining very strongly about the ballots and the ballots are disaster The ballots are out of control you know and you know who knows it better than anybody else the Democrats know better than anybody else But the guardians voting rights reporter some Levin who has been tracking this issue over the past year says there isn't any evidence to back up the president's claims. Several studies. Investigations have shown that voter fraud is not a widespread issue. What does appear to be an issue? Is the hurdles being put in the way of mail in ballots millions being purged from the electoral register and widespread phase of voter intimidation. All apparently designed to stop some groups from voting. When the president talks about voter fraud creates a basis, a justification for putting restrictions in place that make it harder to vote. From The Guardian I'm each Gristana today and focus. The ways in which Americans could be stopped from voting. Over the past year, some Levin been looking at the ways in which Americans across the country might find it hard to cast a ballot the many the fight begins long before election. Day. Sometimes years before. I met Afonso Tucker back in February just sir. My name is Alfonzo. Talk, Junior. Fifty three years old black man and he lives in Tuscaloosa, Alabama in the late nineteen, eighty s he was convicted of one crime beck in nineteen eighty, eight me and my brothers and was involved with a fight at this nightclub called the Citizen Club. I was arrested on second degree assault salt and then again in the early nineteen nineties of another crime both involved fights and he wound up going to prison for two years and then I had to pay. He told me that when he was in prison, you really had kind of awakening. Ma. Hair Bourgogne accomplishment of African American leaders. And their I read about Mega Evans and I was kind of taken back by it because. We never read about him in school. And I knew anything about. Met Her ever is legendary civil rights leader here in the US. Already for freedom. And we're ready to March. All we want you to do is going with this fight for freedom. When we get this huge famously led voter registration drives and Mississippi and was assassinated fifteen minutes. Past midnight ever got out of his car beside his home in the Negro residential area in a vacant lot about forty yards away a sniper fired a single shot from a high powered rifle silhouette. The bullet hit him in the back crashed through his body through a window into the health. He died within an hour at Jackson Hospital when I read did inspire me. And I will say this must be something to this voting thing they willing to take his life. Before he went to prison, he wasn't someone who really thought about voting that much because. I didn't really care to be honest with you about voting was an internet. Had you ever voted before before you went to prison note and when he got out of prison, he really felt this compulsion to vote It is inspired me enough to want to try to find the means actually to. Get, my severe. And he did start eighteen an didn't. Hey but what happened next? In twenty thirteen, he suddenly got a letter from the state of Alabama saying that he was ineligible to vote. I had been voting since nineteen ninety eight it was doing twenty twelve. That voted for the last time. The pardon and parole. Board sent me a letter. I think it was in March of twenty thirteen. Saying that I could no longer vote because I was a convicted felon. Wow so he'd been voting for fourteen years and then suddenly that was taken away from him did he say how he felt about? It affected his whole family. I was taken back by know because me and my wife both we always. Go together. And we always took out children widows, and we go to the poll and so. Very. disappointed. And very hurt will be honest with you. But it wasn't just Tam was when his son turned eighteen, his son who's also named Alfonso Tucker he's our phones. So if Taco third got a letter and they sent him a letter saying that he was convicted felon from the state that said he was ineligible to vote and I know that. There is an obvious mix up yeah. They're basically a few my dad. He's he does anyone have a misdemeanor. He has no criminal. He's no criminal record. You know he was born in ninety seven, I warned sixty seven thirty years apart we to different individuals. And that Alfonso Sad. Really lit a fire under him and was that what started this process for you? Was it your son getting that letter that? Got You back on the process towards figuring out how you could get your voting rights. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Clergy has the Yes. Sir, it did little file under me. Start thinking about mayors, challenges that he went through indicator Mississippi and to hear him say that even people you know I interviewed him in two thousand twenty and this was some years ago I could still see how much pain to him to see his son key felt being punished because of what his father had done. Saw Afonso Tucker became determined to get his sons voter registration sorted out and he was able to do that. But that really made him wanted figure out what was going on with his own voting rights. Gulf say they will easily put barriers in the way of people voting even if sometimes that done incorrectly Alphonso son off the list for something his dad dead thirty years ago. What did Alphonso out about his own situation? Alabama's one of several states in the US that if you have a felony conviction, you have to pay off all financial obligations that you owe as part of that crime and that was what was standing in the way of Alphonso tougher. Being able to vote the state told him that he owed a hundred thirty one dollars and ten cents as part of his decades old felony convictions if he wanted to vote again. And Alfonso borrowed the money from his sister and after he did that he went to the clerk's office and they presented him with another notice that said, actually, you owe more than five, thousand, five, hundred, thirty, five dollars if you want to vote again. And? Well. He didn't know what that was for at first and it was only after Alfonso. Tucker contacted a lawyer in Washington DC that he was able to figure that out and it took the lawyer fifteen minutes to see. That There was just a bureaucratic mix up in the lawyers looked into it. They found out that all he owed as part of his outstanding debt was four dollars head of the two, thousand eighteen midterms and if the state of Alabama had told him that he would have been able to vote what was it like when you got that phone call, she called you back fifteen minutes later, fifteen minutes later to see through this whole thing right and four dollars. I will blown away. I was blown away. And Alfonso Tucker couldn't believe it. He couldn't believe that someone was able to figure this out all so quickly for him so he's going to be able to vote this time. When we talked in February of this year, it was right before the primaries I text with him back and forth throughout the year and I know that he did vote and I know that he's looking forward to voting this fall. Story has a happy ending, but there are a lot of bureaucratic hurdles in way and it took a lot of effort to eventually discover too late for two thousand, eighteen that it was just four dollars stopping him from voting presumably many others never get through that kind of process. Many Berry political don't make pointing out that the restrictions tend to be more common in republican control states and tend to hit grades are more likely to vote for the Democrats. Across the country. Do, we know how many people some imprison but many more human are out have been disenfranchised by these laws. While in two thousand, sixteen, one estimate said that there were six point one million Americans who were disenfranchised because of a felony conviction and that's just an extraordinary. The most significant place where this has an effect is in Florida, which was one of a handful of states that had a lifetime voting ban on people with felony convictions in two thousand eighteen Florida voters approved a constitutional amendment that repealed that lifetime ban a little bit of news out of Florida. One of the ballot initiatives in Florida that has raised a lot of national attention has amendment for which would restore voting rights. To felons, this affects over a million potential voters but Florida lawmakers quickly implemented a law that required people to repay all find and fees they owe as part of their sentence before they vote again, update here at five, the Florida Supreme Court has affirmed that felons must pay up before they can register to vote essentially putting all of these people one point four, million people in Florida in the same bucket as Afonso talker. Making them have to navigate this very confusing bureaucracy. And forager is an incredibly tight state. The most important state in recent elections one point four million could easily swing the vote couldn't it? The try and you know, Florida, every election they are is decided by a razor thin margin to show you how significant that can be four to Donald. Trump in two, thousand, sixteen by one, hundred, thirteen, thousand votes, and it's expected to be a close race this November two and I think it's really telling that Republicans moved very aggressively after this historic measure was passed and Florida to really limit its impact and limit the effect of it. Okay. So this is a deeply political issue. We have a situation in which six million plus Americans are disenfranchised for that reason, and then on top of that, we are, of course in the middle of a pandemic and the rumour Americans than ever voting by mail I wanNA talk about that. Do we know how many male imbalance that will be? It's hard to project how many there will be but every expert projects that there will be a record number in a typical election about a quarter of all votes are cast by mail. But this year I think experts are expecting that number could go as high as fifty or even sixty percent. And in theory, that's great and I know that a number of states automatically send mail in ballots to all registered voters but that isn't the picture across the board is that. States have taken wildly different approaches to handling Mellon voting. There are a couple of states in the US that have a long history of doing vote by mail but the majority of states have done have said that you have to request ballot and then we'll send you one and traditionally there have been a handful of states that required voters to give an excuse to vote by mail in a big fight since the beginning of the year has been trying to push states to ease those requirements to ease those restrictions to make it so that anyone can request a ballot that they don't have. To give an excuse and a few states have refused to budge on their requirements for requesting an absentee ballot. Texas is the most notable with the present debate over mail in ballots. Some voters Texas are confused about what exactly is allowed in our state only letting people vote by mail if they are sixty five or older if they have a disability if they're going to be out of their county, you know for the entire election period. Kovic. In Texas is not a valid excuse to vote by mail but Wow. But it is in other states, right? It is another state many other states. Are the special steps to people trying to vote by mail have to take. When you vote by mail, you have to do certain things that you don't have to do when you vote in person you have to sign a ballot envelope you have to sometimes get someone to witness you signing a ballot envelope you might have to get a notary it was someone who's formally authorized to stamp legal document in some states. For your absentee ballot and those were all things that voters are unfamiliar with that they're having to navigate for the first time and in the middle of a pandemic that can be really hard. So there have been just a slew of lawsuits here. There have been over two hundred fifty lawsuits have been filed this year really challenging challenging the rules around absentee balloting saying that it should be as easy as possible for voters to cast their votes by mail and that a lot of these restrictions that make sense. In normal times don't make sense. Now, another really important restriction is that many states require a ballot to arrive at an election office by Election Day in order to count regardless of when the voter puts it in the mail, and there's been a ton of concern about that here because there have been widespread reports of delays with the postal service and voters are really concerned that if they put their ballot in the mail several days ahead of time, you might not get to the election office in time to be counted. And also read about differences between states in how you actually submit your ballots. For instance, in one place, you might have to put it inside one envelope before putting it inside another one or you might have to make sure that the name exactly matches the name on the electoral roll if. Mistakes are made in the process. What would happen to your ballot? If you make those mistakes, your ballot can be rejected. It can go uncounted and that's a worst case scenario having an eligible voter who is legally able to cast a vote not having their ballot counted because of some technical mistake and do we have any sense of how wide-scale that might be an all say whether there are Sir in groups. Who are more likely to have that ballot discarded than others and typical election around one percent of mail in ballots get rejected not a huge percentage but there's a ton of concern that because there are going to be more people voting by mail for the first time this year who are unfamiliar with the rules that they're going to get caught up in these technical deficiencies and have. Their ballots rejected and that number could rise astronomically. The trump campaign has also said that they are very aggressively going to challenge absentee ballots looking for any kind of technical deficiency that would get a ballot thrown out get rejected what they have to be very careful because you know the things with bundling and all of the things that are happening with votes by mail and the. Most alarming thing is that research has shown that the people who are most likely to have their ballot rejected are first time voters and minorities There's been researched that in the march primary in Florida Black Voters Hispanic voters were almost twice as likely to have their ballots rejected as white voters, which is really astounding. So there are very alarming disparities when it comes to ballot rejections. and. Once again, this is an issue that skews politically because we know that far more Democrats are voting by mail this year. And speaking of politics, you mentioned delays in the postal service as we're seeing this new warning from the postal service, the president still refuses support funding that would assist Malin voting. Yeah. He has some have accused trump himself of trying to slow things down tell me about what's been happening and do we understand why? Earlier this year Lewis to joy who is a major trump ally a major republican donor was appointed to be the postmaster general today I am honoured to begin my service as our nation seventy fifth postmaster general the top official at the postal service and right after he took over, there were reports of widespread mail delays across the country. For several weeks, we've been following the story of slowdowns in the mail system we asked for your stories about the things you've experienced and have waited on and that. Has caused a lot of concern about the reliability of a system to handle. Influx of mail-in votes now Joyce. Said earlier this year that he halted some of the changes that he put in place that were causing some of the slowdowns earlier this week to joy agreed to pause plans for additional changes until after the election but I think there's still a lot of skepticism about the postal service particularly because president trump has openly framed it in a political way. So even though the postal service has repeatedly making assurances that has the capacity to handle this election I think there's a lot of widespread skepticism about it. Coming up what could happen on polling day itself to stop people from voting in this election. Okay. So we've talked about various ways in which people might lose the chance they have to vote before election. Day But let's talk about how election day itself back in June new cupboard a primary election in Georgia where boaters have to wait in line for hours in the middle of pandemic to cast a ballot now to the primary day. Hey, hundreds of voters waiting in our long lines in the heat some in the rain to cast their ballots most of the problems in the metro specific should we expect to see a repeat of those scenes on November the third? And if so, who are the voters who tend to end up queuing for longest? I think that there's no question that we're going to see online every election day in recent elections are voters who wind up waiting two three four hours in line, and there's just no excuse for that. There's been research that has shown that minority voters are much more likely to wait longer in line than their white counterparts and most troublingly I think that the longer someone waits in line the likelihood that they will vote in the next election decreases. So that's certainly a concern. and. Just tell me about the technology for a minute because Britain. Basically when you vote, you get a pencil across on a page and you post it into a box, very old fashioned. Tell me about whether there are any additional risks when you're using machines like the ones you're talking about war every state has their different machines that they use. Some states use a paper ballot. You know where you fill it out with a pen and then put it into a machine. Some states us you know you make your choice on a screen by every election day we see that there are scanners or machines that break down there are power outages. There's a scramble to get machines precincts where machines aren't working and I think that will continue to be an issue this year. What what other on the day issues you can about or one thing that top of mind is voter intimidation president trump has encouraged his supporters to go to the polls and to watch I, think my supporters to go into the polls and watch very carefully because that's what has to happen I am urging them to do it and emerging. I M urging people I. Hope it's going to be a fair election. It's a fair election and what I am a hundred percent on board. But of icy tens of thousands of ballots being manipulated I can't go along with that and that's just clearly an intimidating suggestion. Who knows they're going to be people who are harassing people in line who are going to be protesting near polling places and I think that's one major concern is whether we're going to see a kind of voter intimidation at the polls on election day it's not just the. His son Donald trump junior posted a video on facebook the talks about the radical left and fraud radical left are laying the groundwork to steal this election from my father president used really militarized language saying Republicans needed an army to go watch people vote saying endless. Now we need every April Body Man To Join Army for trump's election security operation at defend your ballot dot com and enlist today. And since then facebook actually said, they'll take down any posts that appear to recommend intimidation at the polls. But lock trump's campaign. Don't say that this is about intimidation. So what is their justification there just? Is that they're there to prevent fraud for what the that doesn't exist. Right? It's fraud that doesn't exist. It's they. There are laws on the books that people to observe at the polls, but there's a a really fine line between being an observer respectfully making sure that everything is going smoothly and intimidating people and I think there is widespread concern that there could be a situation where it could get really ugly at the polls. It's clearly going to be a an extraordinarily busy few. But what about once counting begins normally we result in the evening. It sounds like that might not happen this time. What will you be watching out for on the night? Normally on election night, we have a projected winner and news networks are able to project that based on a combination of exit polls of votes reported and the margins between the candidates but the challenge this year is that because A majority of the ballots might be coming in by mail. The votes that are being reported I on election night might not reflect the majority of the vote total. Some states are prohibited from even beginning to count their mail in ballots until election day including key states of Wisconsin and Pennsylvania and. Counting those male unbalanced just takes a long time. They have to verify all the information on the ballot envelope have to open the envelopes they have to scan the ballots and it's a lot harder than just inserting the ballot into the machine people in person and then they get. A reading of the vote, the Americans need to come over to Sunderland and they'll show you how to count them all in. I think what I'm going to be watching for is how president trump? Approaches, the election-night returned. It appears that he is ahead on election night will he come out and try and claim victory early on before all the votes are counted I think that's a very dangerous scenario. It would lend the impression that the vote is being stolen from him as more ballots are counted or both campaigns going to wait until all the ballots are counted i. Think it's difficult to see a situation where president trump doesn't try and claim victory if he's ahead but I think that's the thing that will be Moshe worth watching on election night, and also to watch how the media networks handle reporting the results in America. You know there's a long tradition of anchors sit around a table and they kind of at the top of every hour. Call state by state as the polls close, and usually you have a sense of who on the election by eleven o'clock or midnight. Right now, historic moment we can now project the winner of the presidential race CNN projects Donald Trump wins the presidency, the business tycoon not that. They're going to be able to do that this year and I think there's still a real kind of confusion and uncertainty among the American public about why that's the case and I'm eager to see how networks approach conveying that we just won't know that they're still uncertainty while still kind of conveying confidence in the election. Some Levin, thank you very much. Thank you for having me. That was some live aid. Thanks to him and tell fans took a junior and Alphonso Tucker the third. You can follow all of Sam's coverage of the election including his excellent series on the fight to vote at the Guardian Dot Com. Tomorrow, we're going to hear from Lawrence Douglas on what could happen if trump loses the election but refuses to leave office. That's it for this episode was produced by mightily row. Sound Design was by act saw cutie the executive producers are Phil may not and Michael. Jackson. We'll. Be Back Tomorrow.
The Platform for Progress Strategizes How to Address Key Policy Issues
"After Alcoa's -ation laws there's We had the meeting of our presidency. It's a board that governs the the highest or good with the bipolar performance so governing board and Interesting thing about athletes that's For Sunday ever cited to talk about defect debts within that board and within the platform for purpose we do have multiple views in multiple perspectives because We have representatives of all ethnic groups within in Bosnia Herzegovina and the that we do need to figure out our standard collected or many issues that are controversy. Soon added was interesting that the open. That discussion will continue that discussion. The twenty fifth of this mugs when we will have any person coalition meeting most all our meetings meetings the one of the twenty fifth will be in person meeting Saturday but it will come to and we will continue our all that topic For example when we issue a press release on any issue issue that we want to talk about the question is will be. CD'S PRO-BOSNIA PRO-SERBIAN PROCR- Heads it or will it be proposed the right things that are seen seen as right by all sides because we have members that will of different eh groups so any it's not about political correctness by these about the state. What is it that be stand? Ford that all our neighbors can identify it. It's it's it's a tough issue simply because there are many Genocide deniers in in Bosnia to on sides other than the Bosniaks We know that of course it happened because the traditional court said it happened to scientists that had happened the question that becomes to what extent Of course that's our position it happens but how often the should it be mentioned. If it's our representatives who are in public service count where a lot of equal to digest will be put him at the position that they they cannot even get to people's because we emphasizing too much. What he's little what's to what's to little When we do we actually say anything bad about any edition one side? It looks talk about Dishes on the other side Doobie I e they say something bad about iffy criticised Croatia for an added something to we need to size Serbia for a sumo thing as well it auditioning the is imagine if you do not states in you building the third party that's pro. US Party at the centre part to the point of center. If you could say Democrats it will say oil citing He's secrets that Republicans Citing with the Democrats a few crews is something else than you are an enemy of the US so whatever rates data doubt is for the first time that we had that position Continuing to take it is also interesting that we adopted he said in Seoul of Human Resources Committee Commission that will damage similar commissions with eighty two region within each because we have to have in place in order to start developing on Easter candidates with the local elections. Next here we also now have documents that guide our physical since electing people. We are strengthening our education Ability to train people to prepare them for elections. I had subsequently they also had a a an appearance over the next one. ATV was quoted in one Affiliates they have as out posted host in Belgrade's so Boston Toledo Serbian creche and talked about the electric voting because this v. r. rated the most vocal proponents of some kind of electronic voting just prevents the electoral fraud it. It was good fifteen minutes Sunday. I had to go to attending the meeting with their the regional boards actually municipal borough or They developed so so factual within the boards and we had to address those issues that afternoon. So that was eleven. Am Ebb the same day. Jobs back to Syria would waddell. A survey was the city has several municipalities with the largest flood is called a new city. We met with their boards. They made the reception rate reception for vicinity talked about that issue head. facebook live from there. They opened the new office and I had the pretty much spending some time in new office. Doing the facebook live from their office with them with their board and that was very cool. Monday had the instinct conversation with them. What about members opposing Our new communication Protocol Communications Strategy. That night there was a meeting or team for communication or communications indications team has a medical with businesses People who are who home business people who are advising of other political opponents Who are considering joining us? Yes they had the interesting townhall meeting organized by one of one hour Local organizations in Sarajevo. It's called down The they invited Lee one of the most famous poets best politician step on Qh reserves across Crotts Academy in Crops and and one of our young that vers- Restaurants shooting gifted bake of one of our of police to be liberal. That boards awards board of all the topic of the three of us. It was like a paddle spoke for on the topic of cloud do parties above the heads. Agreed are assuming you mean trying to seal the function of the state so the country which actually they are trying to do. It then was opened for a question since codes at about one hundred twenty four so showed up it was full of that was the capacity of the room. It was very very and today there was a continuation of Especially about the issue of about the poor quality of air in Sarajevo in Bosnia. There are two cities particularly vulnerable to this held Tuesday. Abode cities are a- baddie surrounded by his more sale. The toes lies that time they signed people towards using oil for heating their homes. The industry continues to to put quantities of carbon monoxide into the ear. The issue is that the there are different kinds of into there is a a terrible of they have a power quipped coil handed Syria with industry. That spews these excited to hear here or there is new wind really because to Bali in Sarajevo surrounded by his and so everything it just sits there in Stacey doesn't get beyond the Sitting in that space between the mound to sitting on top of Sarajevo and and there are more and more cases of people with respiratory problems Getting to try asking for medical help your reporting they talk about what's in grade two incidents to larger greater number wasted as care so lucky as a a day so it must be something else and just because of that power plant and wins instead of the amount of cover monoxide putting into the air is overwhelming that just due to the nature Kiddo absorbing way to protect citizens so they said he's very topical. It is urgent Tsk to talk. What is issues of the health problems that Unsafe situation that citizens consumer facing indices especially in the context of the decisions of the country's making as they are preparing to introduce a new power base burning oil knowing that even though they're better standards though there are better ways of doing good with less pollution to environment. Still still. We've country need to do better job as we prepare into Until the European Union so well even a couple of days ago constantly asked me to joining for coffee and he survived to be doing them in another mountains intervention. We did go there so for the first started. You know when you go there you go from Sarah that sort of dark and you see these cloud there. There's later clouds. You go up there in the sun a lot of people it was it was It was Tuesday was working day but it was full children. It's Using slaves in having fun. Snow this no. There was a hotel restaurant. Full happy faces in look at the ceremony. It from some Bible any see this layer of smog sitting on top of it. In that point you realize Helen Safe. It is and what it isn't your brain game as you were walking. Streatham Surrey it. It's a crucial problem. The issue is these. The government told the cantoned until Sunday. is involved in the political bickering in battle to stay in power to prevent another majority to come in uh-huh in why the citizens are paying the price. Just play games with each other fighting for power. Our instead of solving the problems of the government of the people of scissors going back a little bit was founded interesting. Being how you're getting more people involved more diverse opinions as to what the direction should or should not Out Be in terms of key things you want to focus in on policy issues in those types of things in terms of press releases and whatnot. I understand the challenging hard but from from your perspective is it I mean how how how do you bring. How do you bring this together? So you can have a consensus on okay. This is our stand on this or this is our stand on that. I talked to my vice-presidents our vice-president the day or accelerate you can choose from by local Bosnian Serb from animal. We talked about exactly that and he was as we were preparing during the agenda for the meeting or the twenty fifth. We'll talk about that item contender and he says Dorrie how to do but I know one thing. If he talk in generalities we will not get too far because what people get is a statement that says it's focused on the future. None of okay. That is a good general guideline in that is exactly Talking personally to people about the need to you create a better future. Take the responsibility for weeks as opposed to complaining about the past coast. Daddy's Daddy's our general approach but there will be sometimes a question of the past that we have to respond to to how will respond to in that context disorientating toward the future will help us because the question Timmy's specifically about the bats so I said why would we try the following. Let's bring up innings able hypothetical ordeal it example in say the following question. What would our press release will apply in this context? What would be three the key takeaway words what would be argument on? Put the and use that example which we are yet to produce to guide their composed the participants response to that question. What would our press release including some spending the time before the twenty fifth to envision such an example challenges to it came up with the riots because in that conversation that will lead to a specific as due to a specific question? We will have to use arguments will likely to documents to argue for one position or the other force everybody to there is in the context The other people and the question that is being oust. I know that we will easily easily come up with. A consensus is a set of principles. That will sound general but it might be harder to do it in a specific case in what I would food. Hope what. I'm hoping we will be able to do these. Two findings lanes the best sempe principles that to be useful to us in a specific context context or situation in guide us through the process if he can show that through our dame examples than hopeful. LOYD'S GONNA lead us through our PRESTO On concrete of situations in the future I know did at some point. There will be a situation that will dax some people's patients and convictions. But we have to be honest upfront about we need to be Arizona's have outreach. The other is a kid as open as we kid And that is feigned how we will for culture through the openness and coalitions let the arguments we denied it. We'll lose some people to be hard by these by the party. Hearted read through that exercise. If you one Nationality Party feel one ethnic group Partisans Tabin easy but if you are pretending at least to be party will four people did you. You really need to go through. Exercise overly It's going to be. It's hard to say the least but better now the later the toll help us confides our. TV's in effect other people because they will see who we are. And I want people to knew exactly who you'll be our before joining us so because there will be less few word disatisfaction with our access or course of actions in his party will grow with that. It's obvious if it's an incredibly unique circumstance I mean it's in itself which has to be a challenge as well but I would assume ms part of this process to is you come up with your plan your strategy for doing this and regardless of what you do. They're going to be people people that don't agree with it. And I guess part of that strategy is okay in advance quality control. What how do we deal with those who just we may have offended or whatever yeah? United States recently went to such an exercise with the monuments wants to generally for example. Right right it. It took many years to get report and the old is stunned by it was accepted at the south held onto Rules due to hold onto sued the tradition since the history of interpretation of history. Assad only visit question wait. A seconds could different sides different. They were promoting ideas that will stand for today. Whatever I'm not judging undestroyed to what happened happen right there but it took a while to start discussing? Should we have that money. Would that statue. That's that you in this place to this person. That's what we're trying to do. Now at the beginning of this movement to say okay what happens to generals were in the army audible because subscribe that was accused of genocide in the digital participate participate. But wasn't that. How do we relate to that of Argument there was already over. The Republican Party has agreed a army this gold. HBO FOR BUZZING CROWDS. That was the army army that was fighting against each other at some point or How'd you refer to and to do? We cited one-sided in one defiled people from is obsessively there were people able believe they are defending their land on the Thai just like on the other where they will from this perspective from whatever however you look at it in. So it's forces us to kiss Sir Michigan my immediate that some of that point to that very specific question how would you refer. How would you look at this person? I said listen. The country has already is the question in part because those who did not commit crimes against humanity has accepted the David members of a party Other Nari and they are getting the pension military pension for their participation Never of our of all three orders getting from fuzzy heads Evita Bula military patient so the accepted I think as such says nobody won the war. The accepted the as being members of Civil Army had military service. They get pensions for that duration. So the Notary Service healthcare privilege isn't so now what I would draw. The line is as long as those people are now pulling trying to pull towards the same for the same country will try to make this country better place for all US them trying to make it happen for the except their perspective. Accept the fact that people have different interpretations Jason History. It would like to talk about our education. Dylan's the books textbooks and if you have three histories out of one that each of the different history in the same country I would like them to perhaps in what Buchenwald will be perspective at least a nobody their creative so let them decide for their own their own. How would they believe? Let's talk about that. How we find a way to build this country together not fine with different perspective but if you are the one side or two or three to light to dissolve the coach I have a problem with so so? Let's see whether intensive are to help us understand how to relate to somebody but I recognize that it visa very hard question in any case this in many senses This country is emerging his. Is it even much more complex thing that I imagined has become south. It's history what went through. Its composition is developing economic political. And so in the context addicts in Europe that is changing in the context of the world a political world. That is changing very tough. Take another thing that you brought up and I know discuss your outreach and there are as you organized around the country there are dissenting views as to what the the approach should be in these types of things. And I know that you've been dealing with all of that. I was curious serious for those who are obviously committed to the platform. Part of the platform are eager to spread the word. Do they when they see. See some of this infighting as you grow do they. Do they get discouraged at all is too it's like. Oh Wow you know. I thought everybody they would be on board with the way. We're thinking way quenching during my life Ask sessions on facebook. This Sunday I question came from Denmark person while what is happening Avi Grading I hear that this person from region Bosnia resigned buzzing resigned into the other person division. Bosnia resigned Problem what's happening. The hearing and I explained that they're told people that ex-resigned one from from family reasons while for disagreements human resource decisions and I said well though there are issues there are two people who reside. Here's the reason for years for the the first phone. Staying with Allison is trying to continue to different fast as the second one not really I did look differences in the by said. Listen we have no criteria for the Anybody can be moved. The people come coming some big great reason. We beautiful intentions others with other than we have to go through the process of cuisine. Getty me now with a getting to the election before being lists which means candidates for some things. Different kind of behavior will emerge I of this change that we if somebody can participate if somebody gives up raising or NFC gives up for Roy damage reasons. It's good for at least the person that doesn't have the time cannot contributed Hendro intensive so whatever but it should be with us for the weekend we need to know who we counter and every system that that is growing. That stadium will have these changes because we have no protea industry. These are the tests that we rely on for people to fail so that be who to count making count them and I say this is normal. Tom There's no system that can go forward all the time. It takes feuds steps forward few steps back it will be trying to do is to have more steps forward than steps back so the chatterly unbelievably positive x that is to be expected. Daddy's to be recount to go wherever leaves should should it's fine. I simply needs to be out pruning Cleaning preparing for the next group. And it's and that point a Actually was silently for grade. He's worried cool So yeah it's happening there are many examples Improperly done these assembly said the new medicinal did we are revisiting now in a if he find any sense of improper behavior on anybody's part we are just a wreck find the situation by removing the boards and pointing one that will Within a year being able to organize the next elections for better or so we learned that as as soon as you notice this has some kind of irregularity act right away. Remove people put Newman seeing that connect victory worked for the benefit of the platform in the country and Kikwete Executive soon so that's something that's GonNa be happening Simply because we don't have the time or capacity capacity to verify every every new person coming in in to say anything but we will rely Denali lockup April had we. We rely on this process of self pruning to make sure that we stayed truth the whole time. I know that people who come in for the wrong reasons will not be patient enough to wait through always process for somebody to recommend them or a have them in place onto to recommend it for certain positions pushed him since they would have to have that right away or they go out and so the naturally They most of the time take themselves out of the fight to the for the better futures. So it is a growing through that the a learning I locked and the need to get better in managing the communication about that process so that he provided forums stand what is happening. Get effect from us by within rumors Through the grapevine. And you know what was do they get to. The tenth person has nothing to do with this regional room. Yeah Yeah I was GonNa ask you just one more and now you've got other meetings here but you had mentioned the the television interview and talk talk about electric voting. I know that's an issue that is very near and dear to you and I didn't know if there was anything else. You could elaborate elaborate on that discussion that what you were able to share with the TV. Yes the whole premise of the argument that political p-how how parties in power are so corrupt that they will never ever want to introduce their Tony clothing because that will remove in power they will do everything in the power to stay in power there for to keep the voting mechanism passages increase We are just trying to educate clear the whole community the people the citizens the Embassy of foreign powers why it is important how much it will cost. How long does it take to put it in place? What a pair of issues are forty created and how they can actually deal with that issue? Read somewhere that the cost of introducing Kapadia Tony Voting laws would be around fifty. Five billion euros probably Sixty seventy million dollars in the European Union. I believe is prepared to help. Pounds slow bit need to overcome issues. Like what if Russia enforces owning. And so are the new technologies like blockchain. That soon could help with the. We've stabbed to help us. Establish foolproof for voting system. Could be partial could be so coronation paper. Latronic can be just the trolling scanning of the reads. The paper ballots in Van. Do Truly counting because most though that stealing apples during the counting process it is important for everybody to understand that until citizens gets. EBB believes conquer leaving that their votes count. There will be no movement no change in the situation in Bosnia. That's the only Mac for citizens for the citizens to express their will if he don't bill there will because of the vagaries of nothing ago so they wanted to know why is important People that never had why is important to have we actually. They wanted to know how much the cost. They wanted to know how much it costs the country already having in place. They wanted to get my projections as to what I believe would actually change if he had worked where the money would come from Likelihood that it would be put in place of the what circumstances it could be rotated to talk about the the pressure that the citizens opposition point apartments and the international community shoots exert or uh the political leadership in the power plants of Bosnia handsomely. For that change to happen well hopefully exposure like this will help with that with that. After on your part what happened was also that reckless Actually widely reported in medium so we became seen as the you leaders of the bulletins. There there were five parties who admits opposition parties who met and signed till the even without process today. They I want to have some legislative action for that to happen. which is good? We also had an opinion piece published on the energy situation creation. Mostly it's also really see people's reported throughout Bosnia and we had our over Members of our expertise with edgy participates Shooting Mighty too. I was invited but I said this person would. It'd be better person to talk about it. Because he was a member of the group. Throw to the press release and you should talk to him which they did thankfully so there was also another plus we now. We now have three people who have been in the impressing. The Media News representing for progress expressing different views to the snow. Just need the shower. The breath the strain reigns the presence of expertise on many issues which is important for people to in confidence and plastic platfo for progress in its ability to bring change to Bosnia Herzegovina.
"A heart. Now, you gonna call. Don't play. Tell me that good. So you got that wasn't becomes. Baby. That. Tonight. Five. Thank me. The. Walk the real news network. I'm Mark Steiner. It's great to have you with us Trump. Once again is in panic mode. A caravan of over four thousand migrants from Honduras across the border into Mexico on their way to the US Mexican border. The fleeing the gang violence. The states follows the abysmal poverty face in Honduras. Trump call this caravan of a threat to the United States he threatened food tweets to quote stopping all payments, these countries which seem to have almost no control over their populations. I must in the strongest terms ask Mexico to stop this onslaught and if unable to do so I will call up the US military and in caps. He writes, close our southern border will these four thousand migrants in the caravan make it all the way through Mexico. We have to ask a number of questions, including why they March into the border, given the reactions of our American government, including separating children from their families. Who attempt to cross the border hundreds of thousands of been stopped at the border already is this March symbolic or are we seeing a new confrontation that will unveil or begin to unveil all the contradictions that have led to so many fleeing poverty and violence to our borders. We are joined today by Adrian pine who is a militant medical anthropologist who's worked on Doris, Mexico Korea, the United States Egypt in Cuba. She wrote the book working hard drinking hard on violence and survival in Honduras and is associate professor of anthropology at American University. And Adrian, welcome good to have you with us. Thank you. So this caravan they have to ask the question. I, you know, I remember covering some carrots and the border and Americans in different church people had organized these caravans in the past. So what do we know about this caravan? How did it start? Is it wargin is where does it come from? What what do, you know? What do we know? Well, this caravan. Is really indicative of what's going on in Hundres now in that it is not formally organized by any sort of group with any political motive. Instead, it represents what's going on which is almost everybody in Honduras right now has a plan to leave because of how horrifying dangerous and unlivable. The situation is. I wanna take a step back. You, you know, a lot about Honduras less time, you talk was years back, but you would just come back from Honduras, and you talked about what you mean what you just said what is happening on doors that forcing people to flee. Well, I'm trying to figure out how far back to go. Really start early. I'll start with two thousand nine the military US supported military coup that really brought one hundred s in a very dangerous new direction from where it had been going. And that was that it exceleron added the neoliberal restructuring of the country, which meant that all of the public institutions were really destroyed public education, public health care and infrastructure, and and also job protections that the little there were time were destroyed as well. So it left people with a government that was really a ruling by force was Mary unpopular, but supported by the United States and progressively carried out these reforms that made people more. More vulnerable as the years went by in two thousand thirteen through massive electoral fraud. The current president was elected to his first term that's one or Landau at an end us, and he has played a key role in further militarizing the country institutionalizing the militarization through the stablishment of the military police which receives tremendous US support and training and an economic support. And and by a wide variety of crackdowns on on civic rights in Honduras. So then in just long story short he in two thousand seventeen just about a year ago illegally round for a second term in office and through even more massive fraud. That was condemned worldwide seized power in at follow. That election. It was very clear that his opponent Salvador, not rela had one. And so there were protests in the street following that theft to that electoral theft. I think it was upwards of forty people were murdered by military police and an police and the military who are protesting against that fraud in months that followed and dozens of people were taken political prisoners some of those people, including my my dear friend, Edwin s banal are still being held prisoner in maximum security prisons that were built with US aid and support and are run by the military. So there is a situation where there's just there's just terror. There are no jobs left. There is no chance for people to get education. There's no opportunity to get health care if they get sick. And. And and organized crime has taken over the country. So you have an ARCO state that's propped up by the United States activists have been demanding an end to US aid to the hunter and military and police, which is basically the only place words going for years. So actually Donald Trump's threat to end that support. I think would be welcomed by a lot of people only it's only harming hunter. And and you know, they're very clear about that. 'cause I apologized digressing what was important to give some background. What do we know about who has organized? This is being organized by clergy churches from the United States people who resisting the migration policy in America, who's organizing this happen. What we know? Yeah. I mean, this was very organically organized to March people as I mentioned are desperate to leave almost everybody. I know in Honduras is thinking about leaving if they haven't left already just because of how dangerous the situation is for for people right now. So what happened in this case is? Basically, if you don't have the money to a whole lot of money, many thousands of dollars, which is far more for a hundred and than it is for someone in the United States, given the levels of poverty, then it's very very dangerous to make the trip through Guatemala, Mexico. If you're going to the United States as your alternate destination. So the only way for people who don't have that money, but who are trying to save their lives by fleeing hunter travel safely as traveling larger groups, and so basically it started with a number of people in the same region just through what's up, you know, making a plan to leave together. So that they could travel safely as people heard about this initial group of two hundred or so folks who were who are planning to travel to the Guatemalan border, many people who already have their own individual plans to leave for more or less. Same reasons violence in the economic despair. They decided to join on to this caravan for this for for for the safety that it represented. So it doesn't have a central organizers. And that's an important note that I think a lot of the mainstream media doesn't understand certainly Donald Trump doesn't want to understand that that this is actually an organic movement of people fleeing desperate situations rather than some sort of political ploy to see the Mexican government which said they're going to stop people reporting them, give them to go home with him in jail for ninety days, and then send them home. I haven't heard reports about what exactly happened in the in southern Mexico with these four thousand migrants from Honduras Guatemala, but but that could have a do they may not even make it to the border. Yeah. I mean, it's a, you know, I think that also speaks to the level of desperation that. People are feeling in hunter. Because they know the governments that they are going to of the countries that they have to pass through they know how hostile they are two hundred migrants and. You know, and and in particular, they they are very clear. They know crystal clear what's going on here in the United States with concentration camps for children with separation of parents from their children, you know, with a horrible human rights abuses, that are occurring Hondurans all know that that's going on. And even knowing that they are facing such danger in their home communities that they are willing to risk travelling north. And and I think in Mexico. I mean, one important point is that the incoming president under s- Munhwa Lopa Sova, though has actually stated that he recognizes the situations that hundreds coming are coming from end would grant vase migrants work visas and and assist them in living situations, but unfortunately, he is not going. To become the new president for. Livan is presently the president who will cooperate as much as he can. I think the United States Mexico in this. So I think that that Trump is using a lot of fear tactics. Say these this group full of gang members, these are Honduran gang's coming into a Cavaco in the United States when the reality is is you know, if someone knows on doors, well, these migrants well that they're they are there. There are small minorities. People these are families fleeing oppression and poverty and on doors trying to make their way. Exactly and Trump paying all this attention to this is really a mid term electoral ploy on his part. It's you know, part of the same fearmongering that has round up his face and has no attachment whatsoever to the reality that the realities that that hundreds are facing. Yeah. So I'm curious. Why were you things? This will go. It does show a level of this ratio on the part of people making this trick four thousand people crossing three countries their own Guatemala, Mexico to get to the United States where they may not get in at all they do get to the border. The Trump forces will come in separate families put them in camps. And then send them back. What do you think this takes us in our in our in our in a battle over immigration immigration this country? Well, you know, I think the reason why we're paying attention now is because these people are traveling in a group, but but they're hundreds of people leaving Hundres every day in any case. So this is really just highlighting the situation. This little. Still bed. Is to muzzle. Don't devote. Just. One. Play it. Are they? No. Joe? Critical. No. Wickedness places. Just the. When the crowd. To the same thing. Don't. The word of God. When. What's? What's what's the no? The motivator. With the proper. The next spend the. If you. It's a guy through the. If you want someone who under stay. Then things could get up. That I care. Check. Dan, complica- can sometimes. Different. Your. The. Checking. It's been that way. Look at me. Can't. Check. Kids. Good. Get out. Traffic. Craze. Play. Stomach. Two. Will take. Just. Never. But the. It's okay. Good. Wasn't. Good. But. Okay. Good. But. Good. Been. Slept. But. And. But this. Cut. Call. Jeff. If. If you call. Ext? It's. This. Ted. To stop. Astle? Mine. How? Partly like. That what a love that could take person. That they hit or more point of the creator. Creator. Could have that they want. Where? Got up by. There we go. Wanted to be a super hero. Power. Only in play. Just be giant imagination. Play turtles space. Static to make friends the girls and they played. World on a string course everywhere had pen. Be in play store picture. Create advantage. Heroes comics. Skill up until. Felon. Cadaver power. What? Even. Slow down. Made. Years. Seamanship never happened. After high school. Having thinking. Finland. What are still continue conscious decision to keep real life? Good bad still. Kim honesty and respect. That I. Subject section pay the pay channel young. Streams? Slow down. Made. Was that? Came full have magney in. When. Superman in the air. Now, Scott, some stair step the shit doing here superhuman. Thanks. Choice. Creator and producer. We have over two million applicant listeners reaching two hundred. Twenty four. Dot com. Smile. What's painful to? TMZ reports that even from America's next model may be the newest addition to the real house flats Atlantic. Sources close to real housewives Atlanta production had leaked the film filmed. Same. See with Mimi. And if all goes, well, she may replace either or Porsche or real housewives of Atlanta. Their story too. Reports the real housewives Atlanta, switch things scene. And up to form America's next top model winner. Close the production. TMZ producers. Upcoming season to see if she fits the case. We're already shot. Few seems with Mimi leaks at home, even age awesome. Her tractive at thirty two younger than other ladies, however, told the most important requirement chemistry drama even gotta bring like she did on America's next you here for this. I think could bring much-needed breath of fresh air to the show, and as far as house why even engage, but I don't think that really matters when it comes to real housewives of Atlanta. They just need someone who can bring drama without bringing the loss. Coming through. Take. Singh. Keep on. Case. Things. Take. See? We will. Some. So. Do do do. Do this. Just. Fanny. Recording. Over and over. And over and over and over and over. Kills. Play. If I babe. Click. Kills. Sees. Flow. Kills. Carson are watching. Do I ever touching living single? People are Eric all the time keeping touch with Erica. And the most. Talk to John every once in a while. Of course, every now every day. So many moments people when you work with comedians is always a party. John Hinton was Larry best never got the best of happened in rehearsal. They would just riffing him Kohl's crazy. And then put somebody like Eric in the mix who is good at improv and people don't know how improv quitting. So every day. We really had a we had that we are our brothers and sisters. Do you fight? Maker. Love them. Miss work friends. Everyday miss the most about being away from the show because we were friends I got a chance to all those people. I really like. Anything like some people would tell you. I would tell you that there are pieces of. Yes, definitely pieces as well. As. My father Dr. A lot of people that create no. Never dated anyone on the show. I never wanted to date anyone on your show Eric on the same. That's my twin sister my personal favorite episode. A couple actually the one where to sing my funny. Valentine. And it's called a raise Harlem where. Character was trying to sing club actually was the owner of the club. She wouldn't let him back to forty twenty four. People recognize. Do a lot of video game work and lately getting a lot of God of war. Video game voice. A lot of people know me from the video. There's really no question for me. I would say before acting because singing acting especially in film television. Lot of people have control over what your performance often looks. You only have control over which they have control over everything. I'm working on a project with company CD. Cd they brought me in a couple of months ago concert when really well bringing me back to Christmas. High school kids, which would be. I'll get a chance to work with them in the classroom them guitar recently. I've been thinking about a cover album because there's so many songs that I grew up. I want to do, you know, so create new music music. That's out. There is still really well good. Spangles too. As. Good. You. What you? True. Angels. Spend nine. To say. Heard him. Free. What do you do? Karen? Carrie? Three. Tell mom. Would you? Care. When. From the same. Bring. That. Just. Just. Just. Just. Robin. Lynn. Still. What? My way. Three. You know? Robin lee. Choi. Brown skinned Brown. Wow. Sixty. Sevi- trees. Rob. Bad brad. Dark star record real slick. Good. Turn. Right. We. Clink? What? Talking about me like. Phase. Spun? The fuck. Spot. Face. Style. White. Like every. Twisted. Just talks. Letting. Reality. Kind of. Anyone would? One. I know if. Cars. Crowd. Pass. But. What? Your. We almost never say something like this. But somebody up beyond sick someone is behind right on. Well, they are fighting all over blue Ivy her daughter and also a company called blue. We told the couple months ago that say and filed for trademark name actually trademark they wanted to get was blue Ivy Carter another company stepped in. And it's blocking that are trying to block filed ocsta- say that you can't take that name. Now sounds weird. Because why is there daughter's name did file this saying that they wanted to use it for a lot of? And all sorts of staff almost everything under the so this other company, which is an event planning firm. Big big, weddings and stuff. No, you can't have the name. In fact, they said that they're calling Jay Z say for lying essentially application. So again, another thing will never people say, but they're saying they live because other application they're saying they intend to use the name to sell all these products. Well, then they called out the fact that Jay z has been on the record said in interview that they have no intention of using making blue Ivy into business selling products with her name. They're just doing it. So other people can't use Charles actually fascinating legally because in order to get a trademark you have to use our services and put them in the stream of commerce. So this is actually kind of effective legal argument to say they're actually trying to block people. That's what trademarks are not to be used for could be actually argument and if they lose the trademark name. But isn't there a difference between Carter and blue? I there's a difference in the nave the question they ask. Are people going to be confused source of this company? So they say we have a strong brand we've been in the event planning business for a very long time. We think you're going to dilute our brand by bringing you're kidding. Twitter blue. Yes, matter time sense. So yeah, they're putting this before. Because after I was born in two thousand twelve they file a trademark, but just live and the same company stepped in and said, no you can't do that. We've been in business for three years already before you even thought about having blue. I can't do it. And then they came back. This year added Carter thinking that would make difference wonder if the twins the new twins. I wonder if they've already looked into the names that they want. There's a copyright out there already if it is. I wonder if changed because maybe wouldn't have named blew I blew Ivy. They known about. Complicated. Toronto. And as much to go against actual royalty beyond say. I mean, the company did have it. I basic- trademark common from. There. Taking L. Is she? Never gonna take L anywhere else. Make sure to subscribe to live to keep up to date on the latest entertainment. And if you wanna keep watching. Too drunk draft. To trumpet. Drunk drop. Too drunk. The out the window when I ain't talking. Attend some thin. Found out within the game. Classic down your fabric. Let me speak on your behalf. Necas annoying laugh. On your weight. Nigga nigga sling pain place jumping. Lecco? Hit franson. Geez. Only get on. The kid. Detroit. Path. Ebro these town block more than weeding. Back sling. The pre hailed real next year. Drunk draft. Dr. Drop. Like. I know. Going king pick. Killers white boys nigga. Funeral. Pro. Couple gang. To win. Legend. Hundred win battle. Has. Troll. Thinking purse to retaliate. No heavyweight. Spec for Kim. Business interests somebody's they ought even when kick down build it was. It was. She's too drunk draft. To dry. Draft. Two. Every. Can breed dig. Even when we. Food. Okay. Okay. How? Thing about. Need? Can. Even when we. I was actually is. All. Can. Would. It's. This. Some. Q. Has something very special for you. Right after. Branch and. I'm Robin Lin queuing for with every glass. Live to new time. Three PM eastern. Fifty. What? We got face that you've seen many sees now. But that's. But that's. Eric. Thank you. Feeling good looking good. Thank you. We cut right to the chase. So many seasons of love and hip hop. Lynn. Why? Bouncing. The platform. I say it out. Not a career. Use for you know, what it was. I'm in a point in my life where I want to tell my story. I have creative control of put it out. There about me that has too much, you know. You know, air going to tell you about your. Scrapping. He was. Rapper fictional that used to hang out with Scooby doo. Clear. Curveball take like me go from what you said is platform like television show, which a lot of watch reading children's book at a time. We're media's dying could pay off. After next Levin populated or do you feel like completely say this? I'm not completely down with reality. I am still in front of the camera. Hits. As before like, I have complete creative control of our. If me tell him story. The main care I'm to tell my story from beginning to leading to tell where will tell. From the beginning. The in from starting a reality to in reality. The truth will, prevail. Mama who? Talk about the crazy Yelm. I love you love you personally. Pretty girl. Pretty. Look. You think? Clay. I liked about daughter like. I don't tell her, you know, do it to her. And she seemed make mistakes do things and tell her like mom you made a mistake. So you don't do what? Mommy has done and I would say having. It's always a heated moment. But sometimes you look at things like, you know. Two times in the short time. We talk about the the way stories hit Salat like people that are reality shows shoot content. You the narrative going to be spun finally the final. Not even. Feel that happened to you. Really hit me until lassie's pretty much was able to stay grounded. You got to see me for who. I was. And then it was like a flip last season because that was so much, and it was like portrayed me like beater upstate. Father, and you know, at the time, I wasn't a relationship in a relationship with and it's like it was like five or six, and it's like all like really portrayed me way. And I didn't really get my taste of intellectual. I was like, you know. I was like, okay. I know, you know. Some stuff. I'm not to what did they cut out all scenes? They have complete creative control. They're going to portray you they want to portray. So you can go from. The ratchet is worse attitude person world most parts. We're going to change your image. Show, you know to show. Oh, wow. This person got excellent favorites. So we put this person. Look this way, we give you shine a different light. So the most negative thing that has come out of this whole of hip hop. How was the most negative? I mean, it kind of. Every time. Like. What what do? Mr. cheer, Florida supposed to wanna give DJ rob. Thank you Keeble. Let's go. So. Stay. How? How? And. Favorite halloween. What? Just. Celebrate. Come. Thing. What? My way. Turn. Seven three. Bus. You know, we like. Robin lease. Six. Brown skinned Brown. Judge brandt? Sixty. Seven. Trees check seem. Rob. Bad. Star records real slick. Good. Turn. We. What? Later. Welcome the real news network. I'm Mark Stein. Once again, some people Kratz forgotten fight stand up believe fight the opposition to show him how they can fight back the kind of nation. That's all of them are leadership seems to more about shaking hands across the aisle in full unity than fighting everyone has healthcare education shelter racist building across cross lines wages support a family, and the interest of working class people with a majority of people in our society. I guess conversation longtime activist organizer. Just times entitled free lessons for winning and beyond. Organizers can teach the Democrats which inspired me to this conversation with her to explore how we can organize take power or the ship. Ship seems to have a hard time fighting and billing organization, and we'll learn from unions themselves and back with real news. Great to be here. So what do we begin? Inspired you first up something actually pushed you watching this election cycle that said something has to be said here. Several things happening. One was I was receiving. A fundraising appeal from party hand. Country like all say things like. One point one point we've exceeded half a point the opposition organizer literally sitting at my desk, every one of those. Saying it's not actually actually not enough. Helped me out. Right. Pinon piece one organizer. In hell. My realization role have actually changed in this country. The power structure has shifted such way less really twenty twenty twenty mid-term elections twenty. Try Republican patrol broke out in thirty seven states at once and country. And then you add that twenty sixteen we lost the White House Senate, the House Judiciary and we've lost state houses. And try fact, we've lost governorships statehouses say ways. In this country, red conservative power shifted ship really happened eighteen under Bill Clinton leadership Christian Democratic leader congress. They all say that. Here's. Democratic Party in the states. Dipping seeing the working class as most. Happel Wall Street after Silicon Valley as important as democrat party leadership shifted pro-corporate giant mega corporation party. Frankly, they working class behind and that's hateful. Paypal watch right now important point about this which is. In this country Republican party whenever they control whether it's state house, or whether it's federal government level. First thing. Swiftly policies that help sustain their victory and grow their potential future victory. It's the opposite of what the national credit party doing since. Had opportunity opportunity pass labor lower make an easier working class country. Rebuild a robust trading, which is what propels Democrat's office. Generally speaking, you have this sort of. Understanding. Standing part of the National Democratic Party that Democrats will they will regain. Regain any kind of power power factor less until act indecisive smart ways that promote base building that office pass things resurrect rights, resurrect robust trading. Not forgotten actually just walked away working class people. I'm gonna pick. You are just said raise issues for me. I've been dealing with wrestling with talking about for while. I thought. Which? You've been a long time union organizer. I was organized well for unions as a community organizer. So I only say that that one of the things that drives a wig in any movements have been built in the working class war race racist. Building unions and voting rights. Well, what we've seen here ability Republicans and others kind of put that racial which between separators when you see some times in strikes in organizing factories, organizing cross lines, and we built powerful missing a key component here. I think when we talk about what we can do it off when you hitting pundits talk about working class white, folks. And that's. And that's. Really do something Regis huge. Absolutely. So I couldn't agree more. But I would say one is. Let the media framework classes, the working class has always been multinational, multi ethnic rainbow people, and it's still very much multi-national ethnic diverse Rabo. So that's one thing. I just think we have to say that over over over second. Part of what I love I really love about during where protective artist. Country part of what is so rewarding. And profound about organizing work contract negotiations and running strikes if any of. There are progressive movement racist become overcome and it can get over fairly quickly. I have watched white workers with limited experience dealing with race or the consequences of country. Come around to understanding impact of racism in a way. Peppino campaign, right? Your table in a way, simply happen parts are progressive movement. That's why the entire progressive prioritize. Because the question of race and racism, gender, sexism and all sorts of immigration issues. Like all the issues the right wing is using working class country or in my experience best attended to class struggle. And I don't miss them. I feel as if I age era. Still a lot of two handed sort of older white men around would say it's all about class all about class divisive. And that was. I was bridge Jeter bridge between. Energies progressive, and I would say that I represent sort of bridge and the sense that we have to pay attention race racism, mentally, also pay attention, sexism, gender issues, all sorts of stuff, but their best when we're actually putting people in what we call struggle because it's when people say a common objective raises the right hire childcare the right to raise their kids to have the right to control their schedule like really basic fundamental issues in every. Workers come together around prominent matter and in those conversations when employer professionally investor attract I using race by gender by immigration. Where actually over because people are fighting common issues, and they're less ideological. And so when we say trouble to white workers are getting around race question or or maybe a bunch of. L workers any color or not quite getting around gender while childcare matter much the table, or why maternally matters the table, and frankly a lot easier to bridge those gaps and help people learn real solidarity and common enemy is when they're struggling around common issues and workers have issues and part of what I was taught. Organizer is our objective is to help people say, they're only they're only. Working class and there's in class, and that's so this country, but when you're talking fight, it's not a terror, which is why we need a lot more talking. Arkley from. That's kind of push me conversation. Reading your piece in the times. Moment for our viewers. What is should be learning from union organizer? That we have to learn build something different in this country that we've lost. First thing I wrote about three basic. So one building super which already participation really, hyper. Election. Everybody. We know that we can't just like fifty one percent. Fifty three percent that number hope election employer has a long period of time to campaign against Dr. Trump riding, everyday, racism sexism. Gratien actual all the weapons what I call the national boss fight right now, that's Trump and White House. So everything national boss trumping actual case. What they do pay. So what those still win coach? When do we built majority participation which means we'll start at seventy percent, sixty eight no less seventy percent really seventy five percent when I'm running. I wanna get seventy five per se. For the election because shave those numbers in final week in final day, right fire. Someone. Up on charges patient. Actually people and we're. Actions in this country, right now, that's one majority participation. Second point about that matter building supermajority participation going into a campaign if it gives you governing power. In the last twenty or thirty years in this country. Like hell democrat gets office, and who has no ability to actually implement we do that's because. One little narrow margin. That's not actually exercise governing. Our that's organizing. Power. Election. Election. And after after after you learn when you're building on you. Boss day happening lecture walking stupid, right? Many nasty payback time when the employer lose election workers. Supermajority highveld, fellow Tara and really structure actually implement workers contract like. Think about not just winning campaigns for them product party building governing power that's organizing the second part of it was less about patilally hard. Watching Trump force of coq brothers corporate class hiding behind populace. What they're doing is driving killing which is still that no matter what you do lectures. Matter chain, actually, Hillary strategy union busting because Trump national player in White House watching strategy. Right. Doesn't matter. You know accusation about now court judge forget it matter. What you do? We're gonna we're gonna roll you. Anyway, like strategy and Tripoli when you hyper governing power. And so the second thing tactical tactical issues semantics how we talk. Not. Campaign the entered earlier. No, let's election election set for twenty days from now. The US extra realize how parallel are and the employer comes in barge money message. What's the body needing all? They suddenly start to say, you know, if for. Go to jail, literally literature every campaign. It's all a lie. I know my listeners people. What we what we do campaigns outsmart the employer. If we say all the live before the employer. We find here's your here. Let's talk about why the employer saying actually worth question if age. Let let actually why the boss. Immigrants jobs, right time. Really interesting. Ship jobs from Detroit. Question. Correct answer when we barred them. Crappy yesler. Issues. Really rich talk today for having extended conversations covers we have a lot to talk about here. And it's really important. Appreciate your working taking time today. The iceberg things I wanted to raise. But. I didn't tell folks to to check how Jean Michel new book because it's a great book. No short cuts organizing for our age. Well, we're three when they come back have to talk about the book. Thanks so much joining. Day to having. Marched on here for real news. Thank you so much joining. Teves? But. Out here. Based? Well. Kids. Imbredded pray. Just. Is she in? The. Win. People. There's. We hope. Don't. We should. We. Some. Come rachel. Neck. Pene slaving. Teaching them. Cast feels like shit killing since. Six. Like. I think the government. Look around that. Like. What for? Live in the country. Really is. We just. Cool. Like personal pays felt. All. Every. The brain. It's pretty. World. Source leaking skid. Streets. Free shed. Talk like kids can tables. When you. Teach. Make everything. Like in. Some. Full table. Three. The full chain in peace. Four. Sniff. This is. I. Camping. Three. Trill. Join. From the floor. Think. In the morning. Computer? What this? Check swing. Think. Loan. Loan. Hit the. Even sometimes. What town live? I know. Don't do. Hip only make history. Make mystery is why. His friend Joe. Much. Still phase me. Some. Trolling. Rush. Mara. Where? Progress? Hit. Even times. What? What is sort of? What? Tree. Visual. Ten. Plenty. Its trim time. And it's. Visual. So much more that we. Tom. Always. Where? Progress? Hit. Even times. What? We are brain ticking. Pave. Accepted always reach. That's my. Purpose, creative. Journey. To supply, limitations. And. Raiding. Win. Let me. Reading. Really? And. But he just kept.
"City the world's leading global Bank is pleased to bring you this episode of radio Atlantic we empower people to embrace the future with confidence. What accounts for two thirds of the national GDP? Stay tuned throughout the show as we explore the answer. Hello everyone. This is Alex Wagner. I have been on the road for weeks. What feels like a lifetime covering the midterm elections. And I am back even though the midterm election is not actually over yet votes are still being counted and races and Florida Georgia New York, Mississippi, California, Texas and Utah, but we're going to focus on one in particular. The state of Florida where there are recounts for both the governorship and a Senate seat today. We're going to look more deeply at that recount. And we're also going to look back at one of the most consequential ones in American history Bush v gore, and how American politics was never the same. Again. This is radio Atlantic. With me now is is it avair staff writer at the Atlantic to catch us up on everything that is happening down in Florida. Welcome welcome. Thank you, take me back. If you will to election night in Florida. There was one specific narrative coming out of the state that evening, and that narrative has changed dramatically in the course of the last week. It looked very clearly like it was a good night statewide for Republicans or a couple of Republican House seats that flipped to Democrats. But in the governor's race in the Senate race where you and I were both there couple days before the election, and I spent part of the final weekend in Miami and around, and there was a lot of confidence Andrew gillum and Bill Nelson among Democrats, and it just fell apart very clearly in a way that was reminiscent me of twenty sixteen. But then as we watch their the night in Florida the margin started to go down, especially in the Senate. Race which is much much tighter. And the funny thing to from a political standpoint on that as if you'd asked most people in the days leading up to election day where they thought it would go. They would have probably said Gillam would have run ahead of Nelson. The parts of the map in Florida that everybody has been paying attention to specifically in recent days are Broward County and Palm Beach county. Why are those so important, and why are the recounts focused on those parts of the state? Well, number one, those are the same countries that we talk about every single time. There's a disputed election Florida, the hanging chads where that's where there is something about Broward County that they have not been able to figure out how to do elections balance or about. So yes, literally have some kind of statue in the in this town center of the hanging. Chad remind everybody that this happened there, and it must not happen again. And yet it keeps happening it does. It keeps happening not because of chance, but because they're poor ballot design issues and their issues about how they're administering the elections. And nobody seems to think about them in between the night of the election and the sort of week afterwards when there are disputes over it, and then they move on. But then it comes back and the issues are resolved. And so one of the things that we saw this year is in Broward. There was an issue of how the belt was designed. And where the the Senate race was on the ballot for people to fill in the bubble, and whether people missed it, and and that led to this issue of under votes people who voted in in it looks like every other race. But didn't vote in the Senate race to the degree that I think they're almost twenty six thousand. Fewer votes cast in the US Senate race than in the governor's race example. I mean, it's just means for some reason Floridians in Broward County voted at a rate three point seven percent lower in the Senate race than in the gubernatorial race. Yeah. And maybe that's true. And the reason why that seems to have extra significance Broward Democratic-leaning county and the margin between Scott and Nelson is smaller than that twenty six thousand number. So if there were twenty six thousand people, theoretically who would've voted for Senate and would've voted for Bill Nelson to be the Senator then given the way the numbers went on this Bill Nelson would be like Senator the problem is that if you don't vote then you don't vote, right? Recount isn't going to account for votes that simply weren't cast their two other pieces to this that are actual sort of election concerns that exist independent of partisan back and forth as we talk about. This current Florida recount the Democrats are suing over something called signature match. Right. Yeah. So this is a law that says that your signature if it doesn't match exactly what the signature on file than your vote can be disqualified. And then there's the problem that some of these recount machines are overheating and breaking down. I think one of them broke down to the tune of one hundred seventy four thousand early voting ballots in the recount that now need to be recounted. Right. And what that's going to do presumably as open up a challenge of voting by counting them by hand. Because if the machine broke down wants to trust it to get the count, right? The next time. These are all problems that exist in Florida, independent of what has become a political mudfight, and that is not unfamiliar to people who lived through the two thousand election, but in Florida that political mudfight I mean, I feel like mudfight isn't an accurate description for it. It's like nuclear war because this time. The president is involves is a President Trump has for at least a few months now seen Florida as kind of his step child that election means a lot to him Grandes Santa's as his Accolate. Rhonda Santa's may be the next governor of Florida, and Rick Scott, he sees a Senate races as critically important not just to Republican control of the Senate. But also to the Trump legacy. So tell me a little bit about how he's managed the the recount publicly and through his Twitter feed over the last week. Well, what we know from President Trump is that he is very interested in talking about voting conspiracies, right? That there were illegal votes in the twenty sixteen election. He before the election happened was saying, maybe it would not be an okay result. And he would have to challenge it. And then when he won he said, well, obviously, that means that it was an okay resolved. So how the electoral fraud theories are dependent on who's actually the winner. But still the president has continued to talk about the stuff and with the recounts going on in Georgia and Florida he has come back to these. These theories, I don't know what we're gonna call them because they're not even substantial enough to be theories. He's just says that there are legal votes or that there. Let's call them. What they are. They are baseless. There's been no evidence that there's been any voter fraud. Even Republican appointed officials in Varda have said, we have no idea. I don't think they've said this directly they said there is no evidence to support the president's tweets that on Monday. He said, the Florida election should be called in favor of Scott and Disentis in the large new numbers of new ballots showed up out of nowhere and many ballots are missing or forged an honest vote count is no longer possible ballots massively infected there's no evidence for any of that. And some of this is because of the way that voting works. A lot of the ballots that are coming in late as it were our mallets mailed in from overseas, including from a lot of troops stationed overseas. Their balance don't come until about a week after the election. No matter what. So that is the those are some of the. Votes that are being found quote unquote, infected from firm bribes overseas. But I mean, it does underscore, you know, and we're going to talk about the origins of sort of mudslinging in and around recounts in just a bit. But it underscores the fierce sort of partisan fight that's underway here. Right. I mean, the president is getting involved trying to impune the integrity of a state's election. They're calling the Broward County supervisor of elections the supervisor of corruption Roger stone is in the mix. He's going on info wars saying this brazen outrageous one-sided, I mean, everybody is in this thing because the stakes are so high. So I guess my question to you is is there going to be a resolution? No matter what happens is going to be resolution at some point. There will be some court decisions that show us where the counters and someone will be sworn in as Senator someone will be sworn in as governor. But it does seem like there is going to be. An asterisk around this election in Florida, and that seems purposeful. Look. This started out as President Trump, and Rick Scott, and the attorney general in Florida Pam Bondi talking about voter fraud, and it being something that Republicans were talking about notably Republicans were also talking about voter fraud in number of other races where they were losing around the country. There's a house candidate in New Mexico who was talking about voter fraud. House Ken in California, a state Senate candidate, and can I his role Republicans? But in the last couple of days, this is now bled into some Democrats. Starting talk about that. I was at an event earlier today share Brown center from Ohio who was talking about Georgia. And he said if Stacey Abrams doesn't win in Georgia will know that the count wasn't fair. Well, that is she might question of what happens to our democracy. We can no longer agree on the fairness of elections. What is one of the locations for governance going forward is very difficult. Right. James Madison, talked about from the earliest days that the democracy depends on the people who lose not walking away is European tting dark dark picture. It is a pleasure to have you on the podcast, even if you are painting an apocalyptic picture of what may happen to our democracy. Thank you for getting us up to speed on the latest, and perhaps not greatest in the sunshine state jokes. In some ways the seeds of what's happening today were planted eighteen years ago in the same state with the same parties staking out the same positions those results. Forever changed American politics up next. We're going to take a look back and gore and the great Ford a recount of the year two thousand with two advisors were involved in those campaigns. And who remember well our national trauma? This episode of radio. Atlantic is presented by city, the world's leading global Bank. Every day. We help our clients compete in the global marketplace services make American goods competitive around the world. What does that mean think if your smartphone it's a physical object? But it's the software tech assistance in apps that make it useful. That's an example of how services are intangibly embedded in goods to make them more functional productive deficient, keep listening after the show to learn how services are revitalizing the economy. To better understand what's happening in Florida today. And where it might lead us. We're going to take a trip in the way back machine to the year two thousand two K vice president has recalled the governor and retracted his concession thousand votes, separating gore and Bush. We now have a second statewide recount of the votes when a presidential election was decided by a recount in Florida. Now, the US supreme court has spoken. Let there be no doubt. While I strongly disagree with the court's decision. I accept. Joining me now to help narrate this pivotal chapter of American political history are two men who lived through the national trauma of Bush v gore on opposite sides of the aisle. Mark McKinnon is a political adviser columnist and co host with me of Showtime's the circus. He was the chief media adviser for George W Bush's two thousand campaign, Mark, it's a pleasure to hear your voice. Glad to be with you. And Jeremy bash is a national security attorney and commentator in two thousand he was national security issues director for the gore campaign. Hey, Jeremy, hey, Alex. Thank you guys. Both for revisiting this painful chapter of American politics with me when you first heard about the current Florida recount for the gubernatorial and Senate races. Did you have flashbacks two thousand Jeremy absolutely? The first thing that I thought about was whether I was going to get a call to pack my bags for three days, which was what we were told on election night in two thousand and Alex says, you know, thirty six days later after sleeping mostly on the floor and eating at a vending machines, ultimately we lost. But I certainly thought I was headed back down south. Well, at least all those cheeses were worth it. Maybe not really Mark tell me if you can a little bit about those closing days of the election in two thousand and and when did you win to the Bush campaign, I? Realized this was not going to be settled easily. Well, Florida Florida Florida rings in my years forever. Tim russert calling the election. And it was you know, it was at first the worst night of my life, politically that was the best night of my life. And then I ninety again only to be remedied thirty six days later, but what a rollercoaster that night was for everybody on both sides. You know, it was the moment that we knew that something was that, you know, was awry was when Al Gore call back and took back concessions. He called Bush at one point in the evening to concede, right? You did. And that's when you guys felt great. And then. I remember that moment distinctly because I jumped up and kiss the wife of. Oops. Woman I could find. But did you have a sense? Did you have a sense of the margins were narrowing what happened between that verse? We thought it was done. We, you know, we marched from the campaign down to the down to the capital where there was a big election night. Then going on we thought that was it. And you know, and then then at all Benadryl spun southward, what did what was the reaction when gore called back? Just belief really and anger on the president's behalf. He was he was not happy. It's just like, wait a minute. This you can't do this. But of course, couldn't he did. And Jeremy what was happening on the other side so gore had conceded. And then his adviser said, we'll wait a second. Wait a second. Wait a second. Maybe you haven't lost this thing after all I had gone out with the rest of the campaign staff to veterans plaza in Nashville, and we were there waiting for Al Gore, somebody to take the microphone and take the podium. And of course, we waited and waited and waited and pretty soon. Our flip phone started ringing, and we were told everyone back to the campaign headquarters. Gore's not coming out. He's not conceding. And this thing may be going to a recount in Florida where you was their excitement trepidation. I mean, it's interesting that I understandably on the Bush. There was frustration and probably a little bit of anger like you can't do this. What was it feeling on the on the gore side? We felt like the fight was still very much going on. I mean we were exhausted. Don't get me wrong. It was like running a marathon falling down someone telling you. Hey, stand up. You gotta run another one. And so we head back to the campaign headquarters. But I remember that night when we got back to campaign headquarters, we all some of the junior and mid tier staff pressed our noses against the glass of the conference room. Where all the senior level folks were gathered around there was a lot of energy. There's a lot of enthusiasm. And we thought look we'd better go down and fight for every vote. And they had said to me. Hey, we knew you were doing foreign policy on the campaign, but bashed didn't you had a law school? I said, yeah. But I never practice law. We don't care weaving lawyers in Florida. So we went and packed our bags in and got ready to board. The charter Mark over on the Bush side that the Bush campaign responded quickly and aggressively in in the in the days after the election and by most outside accounts, they had sort. The most aggressive or the more aggressive, legal and communication strategy. Can you tell us a little bit about how the sort of top echelons of the campaign closed ranks and and figured out and mapped out what they were going to do. I mean, they just lit up every lawyer in the country, and the and everyone on flew down to, you know, you know, Republican operative was with a law degree and just flooded the on on the ground in the air in DC. And you know, it just got the best lawyers. They could find and including especially titles, and and just said, you know, we're we're going in. We're going in bare knuckles brawling, and we're gonna we're gonna we're gonna keep this thing. We're not gonna let it be taken away from us. The Bush campaign's would have hatched. What has become a broader talking point in American politics from the Republican party, which the Democrats were playing games with with the vote that that somehow the the vote in Florida the recount all of it was was rigged that it was an effort to steal election. Do you? Remember, how the Bush campaign kind of came to that? That talking point Mark. Well, pretty quickly when there was selective recount of just four counties. Say why would we just counting four counties that happened to be the best counties for gore, and if you're gonna recant recount everything right when when the recount began, Jeremy tell me about what the feeling was inside the campaign when when the when the ballots were being looked at again, they'll ver- Wilmington feeling Alex was mass confusion. We took a charter plane down to Florida, and it made three stops it stops in Tallahassee Orlando, and then Fort Lauderdale and a bunch of people kind of selected at random got off at every stop and just kind of fanned out Hoover to the democratic headquarters and the canvassing boards where the votes were being retail tabulate. But there was not a lot of communication between the team, and we didn't really have a game plan. And so I landed in Fort Lauderdale, and we rented a car, and we drove up to the Palm Beach democratic headquarters in visited with. Monte freakin, the chairman of the Pompey Democratic Party, come an old party, boss and activist. And he said come on. I'll take you over to where the votes are being recounted, and we went over to the canvassing board. And we saw we walk. I never forget we walked into the room. And we saw them repeating the punch cards into the machines. And I felt like I was walking through a cloud of smoke because the Chad from the punch cards where flying everywhere without. Oh, boy, we got a situation here. Wow. Clouds of CHAD'S. It was quite a scene, and it was an none of us. Exactly new quite quite how to handle it. Did you feel optimistic at that point? Did you feel like you could actually turn the election through the recounted? That was that the feeling inside the gore campaign. My personal feeling was that we were behind and that it was going to be a very tough struggle to take the lead. I think are feeling though was also motive. By the fact that a big issue in Florida was the ballot design in Palm Beach county, and because of the butterfly ballot which you'll recall seem to confuse a lot of voters. And if if you'll recall, of course, Joe Lieberman was on the ticket. It was a lot of enthusiasm particularly among the elderly Jewish population and century village and all the other kind of gated communities in in in that part of south Florida, and the idea that Pat Buchanan, we get ten thousand votes in Palm Beach county when a few years earlier he gotten obviously a fraction of that. And so there was a sense that something had gone wrong. And that voters might have been confused, and that maybe they were punching in won't one hole, and they should have been punching in another. And so I think we just wanted to make sure that everybody's vote was counted. And that the tabulation was correct in any other given year these screwy situations like the butterfly ballot probably would not have mattered. You've got so many million votes in a presidential election, Florida and the idea that. A couple of thousand could actually determine the outcome of the state. Let alone the presidency was sort of too hard to contemplate, but in fact, the the number dividing gore and Bush when all the dust was settled was about five hundred and thirty five votes on relieved. If you think in today's context, we're talking about recounts in Florida where there might be ten or thirteen or twenty thousand votes. Separating the candidates, and there are mandatory recounts under the law here, we had five hundred votes separating the two, and it would be dispositive for who would become president of the United States. Mark. Can you talk to me a little bit about the the closing days of this recount? There was a re there was real pressure from the Democrats to let the count continue on Republicans wanted the count to end by the deadline. The supreme court shutdown the recount on the deadline. And so not all of the votes were counted. What what what was that a hard position to take? Or did the Bush campaign feel like that was the right? Position to take. No, I defer to the warriors when they've just that was their position that they were doing it by the water, and that was the letter, and and they appeal to the appropriate. Sources at that point. Which was the course ultimately the supreme court. Of course, you know, having the hindsight that we have now, you know, it ended up being hugely problematic. It would have been much better to not have the supreme court rule on this. And have a statewide recount as we now know that was done by some nonpartisan media sources that determine that Bush would have won a statewide recount. But the fact that the supreme court ruled on it made at least half of America believe that the thing was fixed. There was a political decision and that became hugely problematic for the hopeless presidency. I believe I think at handicapped him going in half the country to believe little it president much in the same way that Obama had to deal with the birther stuff. You know, both of those peasants has had to go into their presidencies with this hugely problematic issue of not being believe that their legitimate president, Jerry. Emme? What was the feeling in e you were involved in the recount, I mean in those closing days and hours of the recount itself where you're finding against the supreme court and a looming decision. What was the feeling? Well, Alex, I again, remember that Al Gore had won the national popular vote by five hundred thousand votes and also the way the electoral college shook out if Bush was going to be able to get over that two hundred seventy threshold he was gonna need all of Florida's electoral votes. And then he would only get over by one vote. So at the end he had to seventy one to Al Gore's to sixty six so it was kind of this crazy almost threatening the eye of needle that we felt that Bush had to achieve in order to take the presidency. And so we wanted to make sure that if there were any mistakes in the tabulation of the votes that we could eliminate that. Because obviously everything was on the line. And and the idea was was an this really came from Warren, Christopher the former secretary of state and who had been serving as as the leader of the gore recount effort. His view was you know, let's not overreach here. This is much about battle of. Public opinion as it is a legal issue. And let's try to keep the any recount request as narrow and his cabin as possible. So only in the places where we actually think we have a problem. Should we ask for a recount, I wanna sort of telescope out a little bit to talk about the after-effects of the of the Florida recount, certainly it shaved a presidency. Mark you said that this colored the Bush presidency and that half the country didn't think he was the legitimate president of the United States, but it also established this idea of electoral fraud, which other Republicans have taken and run with in much more, extreme fashion. If you listen to what President Trump is saying about Florida and the recount, even what was happening in Arizona, Georgia. He is making baseless claims very toxic claims about the integrity of our election system. Do you can you trace some of that back to what happened in Florida? Well, yeah, I think you can. I mean, I just broadly anecdotally, but I think go back and research, it, I, you know, I think that's sorta gave birth to a lot of election fraud conspiracy notions that have spun out since then that we've seen over and over and over again, including now, I mean, the president was was was, you know, I guess yesterday saying to stop election when they didn't even have all the military ballots in right, which of course, you cannot do you're supposed to count every vote. That's that's that's sort of the basis of our democracy. So yeah, it has. And it's and it's also, you know, I sort of factor in the all these suppression. I would I would call it systemic suppression efforts on of Republicans, which I find Branchville and indefensible I think the the reality is the greatest fraud in American politics today is. Notion of voter fraud. It just it happens. So rarely you know, any real studies investigations voter fraud. Find literally nothing, you know, somebody accidentally wandered in and had the wrong card the incidents where it happens or just very, you know, they're either unintended or stupid, but there's no sort of designed voter fraud going on anywhere, nor has there been really ever. Does it disturb you that the Republican party has in large part been the party to spin out these theories? Yeah. I mean, I'm concerned because of a bet that gets sort of wrapped up in a larger concern that I have about direction of Republican party. We didn't autopsy in two thousand twelve where our conclusion was in order to continue to be a governing party of the majority of a majority that we had to make the tent much bigger that we had to find ways to attract more younger voters more diverse voters. More women, you know across the board. We just we couldn't keep winning with old white men, and what happened with Donald Trump's election really is. And a lot of other these you know, sort of suppression efforts going on is just a doubling down on saying we're just going to get we're gonna find a way to get white men. And at a certain point, you know, that just becomes a suicide strategy. And I think we're close to that. Jeremy when you look back on Florida in two thousand is it feel like the sort of patient z. Zero for this virus of quote, unquote, electoral fraud and allegations of electoral fraud. I think so, but I think would also we learn from two thousand is that elections are going to be very close and particularly in a in a hard-fought election. No matter if one party wins, the popular vote, the reality is is that the electoral college is gonna be razor thin. And so that councils for every side to kinda pull out all the stops in the run-up to election day. It looks like if you look at the like the landscape today. Right. The midterm elections aren't over. There are recounts happening in states across the country. And that's because the margins are so close. And so as we look to the future. With a country as divided as we are. We're going to have even more closely divided elections, which inevitably means we're gonna have more recounts in our future more opportunity to make what should be a fair and open process filled with integrity a place where you can inject partisan rancor and partisan politics. Are you guys worried about the future of elections? I'm not I'm a prisoner of hope. I, you know, I think as Mark McKinnon. I think that I think they are getting better and better with each election. We learn more the systems get have more integrity. You know? Hopefully, we'll have one in the future where we don't have. You know, we don't have voting machines actually burning like horns, Florida right now over-heating voting machines. Yeah. How does that happen in two thousand eighteen I would like to amend something? If I may Alex just about sort of, you know, where this all started the real precedent for you know, lot of sort of voter conspiracy and voter fraud. So we're seeing today with an Indiana race in nineteen eighty four of alternately got settled by the house of representatives, and the Democrats kind of pulling a double reverse in the congress, which which was such an egregious move that Barney Frank democrat voted against it. So which is just to say that the notion of gaming the system to your vantage is not a Republican Democratic issue. It's it's it's it's whoever has to happens to be gaining the upper hand at the time is gonna is gonna do whatever. They can. It's all about power and keeping it. Yeah. I think we should be clear that gaining trying to get the upper hand in any election and have the results that you you'd like to have is not something unique to either party on. On the hopeful note, just as a as a way to as evidence of that in to reinforce it. We had a great outcome in Arizona this election. We had a very close race in this in the US Senate race there between Kirstin cinema and Martha mcsally and Maxine was a head and then more votes came in and it turned around. And there was a was a lawsuit five America county and everybody got together and said the rural counties objected to it and they found a solution. And it was a very sort of progressive model for how this can work and then very diplomatically conceded the race after she had been ahead. So, you know, hopefully, we'll see more of that in the future, and Alex I would just add that I think the key is to make sure that all the votes are counted properly. No matter the circumstances. And I agree with Mark that Arizona in some ways is the model, and I think our legal systems should ensure that recounts can happen quickly. Expeditiously? I liked the new Florida law that basically says it's not one side requesting a recount, it's not Nelson or Guillem requesting a recount if they're behind or Disentis or Scott opposing recount if their head there are automatic triggers. There has to be a recount of the votes, if the margins are small enough, well, all I will say is this with Florida and the importance of the state in the twenty twenty presidential election with the importance of each Senate seat in the current makeup of the Senate and the outsize importance that state governors play in national politics, it's imperative that whatever the results this week or next week or whenever this Florida recount ends America. A lot in American politics will be riding on it. And maybe maybe maybe this time Florida has actually learned its lesson. Jeremy and Mark thank you guys so much for joining meat and opening up old wounds are living our listenership is wiser for it. And we appreciate your time. I think Germany can confirm that even having Florida right now, they they pass some a lot of state legislation to make it better than it was obviously still problems. But hopefully, we'll learn more or less to your point hopefully in twenty twenty we will not here late at night, Florida, Florida, Florida. Dark. I say I'd have a flashback in a breakdown all the same time just for your own sanity. We hope it doesn't come back to Florida. Thanks, guys. Thanks. That'll do it for this week radio Atlantic. This episode was produced edited by Kevin Townsend with help from Patricia Katherine wells is the executive producer of Atlantic podcasts. Our theme music is the battle hymn of the Republic by John Batiste. Check us out at the Atlantic dot com slash radio and rate and review us apple podcasts or wherever you listen. Thanks for listening. We'll be off next week for the holiday and stuffing our faces with Turkey. So enjoy thanksgiving. And we'll see you the week after. This episode of radio. Atlantic is presented by city, the world's leading global Bank. Every day. We help our clients compete in the global marketplace eliminating barriers to trade in services could increase US services exports by as much as one point four trillion and two could also create as many as three million American jobs at city, we believe to help unlock those opportunities. Policymakers must continue to prioritize the services sector when it comes to trade this category, which includes financial services media, transportation technology and more has become the bedrock of the American economy. In fact, the services sector now accounts for two thirds of the US GDP that might be surprising. We don't picture a container ship full of services. But the way we think about trade. And consequently our world is changing and fast day services will be integrated in literally everything. We use services are changing our occupations or households and the global economy as consumer needs and preferences, continue to evolve city CEO, Mike Corbett has maintained that some trade agreements. We have today will need to be modernized to account for that shift to learn more about how the services sector is changing our everyday lives. Visit the Atlantic dot com slash trade.
Roger Stone's spectacular smackdown
"Tonight all in. Oh my God. A busted. Roger stone's spectacular. Smackdown. The president's longtime adviser gagged by federal job. Plus why the president's lawyer was meaning senators on the hill today any message to the president. Plus Matt Miller on the silence from the president at the arrest. I'm gonna legend right wing domestic terrorists inside the federal government, then the election fraud hearing in North Carolina takes a stunning turn. You have any knowledge of a ballot harvesting operation. Absolutely not and his presidential campaign is two days old and already breaking fundraising records exclusive interview with Bernie Sanders all in starts right now. Good evening from Los Angeles. I'm Chris Hayes in it is another absolutely insane. Newsday indicted, Trump ally Roger stone has been hit with a strict gag order. By the judge in his case free posted her picture online alongside an image of crosshairs, a new congressional election was called North Carolina after elections board hearing flagrant electoral fraud to boost the Republican candidate. There's been a string of reports. The Muller pro may be poised to wrap up any day as longtime Trump fixer Michael Kohn prepares to testify three times before congress next week and Democrats are taking their first concrete legislative steps to block the president's national emergency declaration at the border with a resolution to terminate his effort to circumvent congress to build the wall. Mexico was supposed to pay for. And then there's all the action in the race to take on Trump and twenty twenty new time magazine cover depicting, Trump looking back over his shoulder as a crowded field of. Cleared and potential candidates is the Oval Office two days ago, a major candidate formally entered the race promptly raised nearly six million dollars in just twenty four hours. Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders the runner up for the democratic nomination last time around to clearing the time and come to quote, complete the revolution and make his vision reality joining me now for his first primetime interview since declaring his candidacy, independent Senator Bernie Sanders. Senator let me just start with the emergency declarations and sets in the news today. Chuck Schumer says the senate's going to introduce a resolution as well to pair with the house. Do you support that resolution, of course, they do what the president is looming unconstitutional? It's legal entities pot of his movement toward an authorized -tarian society. This guy clearly is not the million with the constitution clearly up the million with the separation of powers he thinks he's got it. All he's the only one running the government, and that has got to stop you ran for. President twenty sixteen. I think that it was a long race. It was a hard-fought race. It's a very different world two years later for lotteries. And there's probably a dozen or so candidates or more who will be in the race. The issue Pratt forms have changed quite a bit. There's several candidates who've endorsed Medicare for all where free college which are issues that you champion. Why did you take a look at this race this time and say I have to run again. I think for a couple of reasons Chris first of all I'm proud of what we accomplished in two thousand sixteen and I'm proud that. We changed the political discourse in this country that ideas that today are widely accepted a pot of the mainstream being supported by many democratic candidates, if you will recall three years ago, why these ideas was considered to be radical and extreme and infringe and fringe idea. So we have come a long way, I think in transforming the Democratic Party and making it into a more progressive potty second of all pot of the political revolution was to mobilize millions of people at the grassroots level. And when I'm very proud of in terms of what we accomplished in the last today's the media talks about the money. That's great. But we now have close to one million people who have signed up who want to be involved in an unprecedented campaign and why? That's important is that I believe from the bottom of my heart that if you learn from the civil rights movement from the trade union from the women's movement from the gay movement, you know, that real change in this country never occurs unless millions of people standing up and fighting back. So if we gonna pass Medicare for all we need to mobilize millions of people to stand up to the insurance companies and the drug companies, that's what this campaign is about. I wanna I want to ask another question about the this campaign verse last campaign because obviously that was a very hard fought primary. It went on for very long time. It was competitive in a way, I think some people didn't expect at the beginning of it. And if you're gonna win this time, there are people who voted for Hillary Clinton the last time around whose votes, he will need this time in a democratic primary, and there's still some bad blood. I mean, there are still folks who I talked to who exist in the political world. We're loyal Democrats who feel frustrated by what they felt was your lack of wilty to the party or your support of hill. Clinton or extending the primary too long. And my question to you is what what is the message for those folks out there who may still sore? Sore feelings about that. You know, I do understand that Chris. But let's get the facts, correct. After I endorsed Hillary Clinton. I went all over this country. And I worked as hard as I could to see that she was elected. And I think we should get that that clear I think the main point to be made is that where we all right now is that many of the major issues that I have been talking about the years on now widely supported by the American people, and what we have got to do is take Trump's. Desire to divide us up by the color of skin where we will born or sexual orientation or our agenda. We have got the bring our people together around a progressive agenda healthcare is a human right? We're gonna raise that minimum wage to fifteen bucks an hour. We all them in a highly competitive global economy make public colleges and universities tuition free and Lois student. We all going to address the existential crisis of climate change transform our energy system and create millions of jobs in the process criminal Justice reform, immigration reform, those ideas, now ideas that the overwhelming majority of the of the democratic pie believe in and we got to bring people together around that agenda. One more question about twenty sixteen about your campaign because you were mayor of Burlington, rob. So you have some executive experience. But that campaign was a large enterprise that you're managing. There's been. Some complaints. It's been well reported, I know you met with some folks on the campaign about the cultural atmosphere in that came particularly as it pertains sexual harassment being tolliday tolerated. And the diversity of the senior leadership of that campaign at a time when the Democratic Party is diverse party being excessively, white and male and not having enough voices. Do you take those criticisms to harder you doing things differently this time? Absolutely. We take those criticisms the hog when people said that our campaign was too white too male oriented, they all right? You take a look at the staff that we putting together right now. Take a look at who our national coaches. Aw, you will see a fundamental difference. In the way, our campaign is operating in terms of the issue of sexual harassment. That has troubled me immensely, and we putting together a protocol now which will be stronger than any campaign has ever put together. So that we prevent any of the problems we saw in two thousand and sixteen. You just you just talked about a lot of issues that are issues that you feel passionately about that you've campaigned about Medicare for all climate in the green unique criminal Justice reform. But prioritization, is seems a key question in this primary, and it's question I've been asking every candidate we've had on which is what is your first your Naga rated and buy America electoral miracle or a lot of hard work. The Democrats have a majority in the Senate and in the house. What's your first piece of big domestic legislation that you move. I don't look at it that way, Chris I look at is looking at a hundred day period and pushing forward that in that progressive agenda, we've got to raise the minimum wage would living wage we have to pay us Medicare for all we have to transform our energy system. So I don't see it as one piece of legislation. We have enormous crises in this country terms of income and wealth inequality in terms of millions of people living in palm. In terms of shrinking middle class. It's not just one issue. We need a progressive agenda. That's what I'm going to campaigning on. Let me tell you something. Let me just because you're night. United States Senator who knows your way around the legislative process, and you know, how important political capital and sequencing are and prioritization, we know the parties come in, and they have priorities and those priorities when they come in. I those bills get the best sort of amount of force behind them. And then you go later through administration, and they get less and less. That's just the facts of how things work. Well, I think you're looking at the past you not looking at. I think what life would be like if I'm going to be elected president of the United States is going to be a sense of urgency. We are not going to do things the same old way we have major crises in this country, and especially up the four years of the disaster of what will be the disastrous Trump if you last four years, we're going to have to move rapidly in addressing issue after issue after issue, and let me mention some other issues. I think that have not been talked about we have to pay more attention to rural America life expectancy going down opioid epidemic. Young people leaving the communities. We have to pay more attention to rural communities, we have to pay attention to the impact that offficial intelligence and robotics is having on society in driving people out of the jobs. They have had for years. So there's an enormous amount of work to be done. And we thought all gonna need a president. And congress to focus on issue after issue to transform the economic and political life of this country. We've talked a lot about domestic issues, and you've been fairly active on some foreign policy issues, particularly in Yemen, where you've worked with some centers across the aisle on the War Powers resolution, which was successful in the last congress and might come up again, and there's been reporting about sort of your foreign policy staffing filled out more. I wonder like is there is there a Sanders? Doctrine. Is there a way that you've? View American leadership and foreign policy were you to become president. In thirty seconds or less, right? Exactly. Well, fifteen I gotta get right. All right. You gotta president today who supports literally literally supports authoritarian regimes all over the world who supports governments run. By a kleptocrats of billionaires, my vision of American leadership in the world is leadership which supports the mock Racine supports Uman rights supports the entire world coming together to address the planetary crisis of climate change. And I see you potential in the world people all over the world saying, you don't want it affects China it affects India it affects the United States. We've got to work together. I see a world beginning to address massive global income and wealth inequality where today you have a few hundred people owning more wealth than the bottom half of the world's population. I see us addressing the. Problems of global poverty. So I see us being the country where the rest of the world looks to the United States and says thank you America for supporting Uman writes, the Micra c and economic Justice. I want to ask you about socialism. There's a an Email that went out. I think in the last few days from the Trump campaign, which of course, has been running a fundraising Email. It says Bernie Sanders announced he will be running for president twenty twenty with very simple flat form full-blown. Socialism, partial, socialism, full-blown, socialism, you call yourself. You've called yourself a socialist for years. It's been a question. Interestingly I think on the campaign trail other candidates said they're not socialist their capitalist. But there's this debate that his ensued about what does that mean? A lot of conservatives appointed Venezuela and said food shortages, increasing thorough Teheran ISM is what socials means. And it's what Bernie Sanders wants what is your definition of socialism? What your model for it? I think that when we look at a modern democratic civilized society, you'll looking at economic rights in addition to political freedoms. So right now, we have a constitution your freedom of speech freedom of religion at sexual. I happen to believe that in the year twenty nineteen with all of the wealth around us. We can create an economy, which guarantees healthcare to all people as a human right, which Garen keys education from childcare higher education as a human right, which guarantees the right of people to have decent affordable housing, which make sure that you're living in a community with water that you a drinking and the air that you are breathing clean. Let me just rights as human rights, and by the way, Chris, but how are you? Right. That's my question. Right. So you're describing the mixed economy, and we niggers the national health service in the UK. There are brought to United States. We have we have public provision of those goods is there's something thrown above that distinguishes your vision from kind of welfare state mixed economy. Well, should also weighed that in nineteen forty four. This is exactly what Franklin Delano Roosevelt talked about. He talked about jobs and healthcare and education as a human right to be guaranteed by the government. And what I'm talking about exist in many countries all over the world, you go to countries Scandinavia college education is free every other major country on earth guarantees healthcare to all people as a right most countries have high minimum wages than we do. So essentially, what we are talking about is making sure that a vibrant democracy. Make sure a guarantees that all of our people can have a decent standard of living. And that we do not have this grotesque level of income in wealth inequality with three people end up owning more wealth than the bottom half of the country where a handful of billionaires can spend hundreds of millions of dollars to buy elections. That's what the political revolutions about. That's what democratic. Socialism means to me. So my return to the Venezuela case because it has been so used by conservatives in the in the US on exactly this you've been critical the Madero regime. I think also critical some of the steps taken by the Trump administration sort of ratcheting up pressure. But what is the Bernie Sanders theory of the case for why Venezuela is the way it is? What went wrong there in what was an avowed Lee socialist project. Well, I mean, that's that's a long story that we I don't think we have the time to get into. But this is what I will say. And that is that I think that must be free and fair elections in Venezuela. The last elections were not free. Second of all we have got to do everything that we can to provide you Mediterranean aid along with other countries. So the people do not stop to death. And Thirdly, a we need to make certain that the United States does not do what it has done time and time again in our history and that is getting. Involved in overthrowing governments in Latin America, we did that in Chile we did that Brazil quantum all of the countries. We should not be doing that. Now the future of Venezuela. Must rest with the Venezuelan people not the Trump administration. You spoke before about a political revolution talked about an ambitious hundred day agenda, one of the kind of bottlenecks for all of that. Right now is that the the house of congress you call your own the United States Senate, it has a filibuster, which has we know from the history increased rapidly and its deployment it's essentially used as a sixty vote threshold for almost everything other than a reconciliation budgeting. Some people have come out in favour of abolishing the filibuster. Do you favor? Bala shame the filibuster. Well, one of those people is Donald Trump. So I think we should be thoughtful and. Clear about this is what Trump would like to say look before we get into that. Which is a very legitimate question. We need to a make sure the Democrats control the United States Senate, which is not guaranteed by any means. No. On the ball. And second of all it's not good enough to have fifty one Democrats fifty Democrats a democratic president, it is important to have progressive Democrats because if you think that every democrat currently in the United States Senate is going to support a progressive agenda. Think twice. That's not the case. Right. But isn't that even more the case for sixty votes? I think what we have got to do. I mean, you're asking a legitimate question. But I think that's get first things for us. Let's elected Democratic Senate. Let's make sure that many as possible off progresses. But this is what I believe. That's what I said a moment ago, we make change when millions of people demand that change. And I believe that when people stand up and fight back. Yes, you'll going to have the United States Congress slot listening to ordinary Americans rather than wealthy campaign contributors. All right, Senator Bernie Sanders Senator from Vermont. Thanks so much for taking time. I appreciate it. My pleasure. Next. Roger stone's dirty tricks catch up with him, again, the amazing scene that unfolded in court between the president's former political visor and a federal judge right after this. Roger stone is officially gagged that's pursuant to an order from judge. Amy Berman Jackson today in federal court a hearing called by the judge herself after notoriously publicity hungry. Trump advisor posted a picture of judge Jackson next to what appeared to be crosshairs dome. Was apologetic quite apologetic today in court, but the judge was not buying it. She alluded to the coast guard member who officials say compiled hitlist public officials and stockpile weapons saying you don't even have to look at the papers beyond today to know that inciting extremist violent action is a possibility. Judge Jackson also warned stone. This is his last chance before she revokes his bail sending him to jail quote today. I gave you a second chance. This is not baseball. You do not get a third chance discuss the judge's action today and what they might pretend. Roger stone wanna bring in to MSNBC legal analyst Paul Butler, prosecute worked in the department of Justice's public integrity unit on cases of public corruption, and Maya Wiley, the senior vice president. A social Justice at the new school. My the you don't see this often. But I guess you don't see people who are like Roger stone that often is very rare to have someone particularly someone who should be as knowledgeable, and who is well represented as Roger stone, literally threaten a federal judge. And that is what happened here and one of the things that we must focus in on his one. The judge was restrained. She clearly was concerned. But also really gave him the opportunity. She remember that prosecutors wanted him more gagged than she. Agreed the gag him. He can still talk about his innocence. He can still ask for donations for his legal defense. But it can't talk about the case. And what he posted, by the way. It wasn't just the crosshairs. I think it's really important to elevate that he talked about the Muller probe as the d. State and the reason that lends itself to being threatening particularly where he has named a federal judge as if she is not an unbiased and impartial. Jurist is that the deep state reference has caused people to go out and threaten the lives of others in the past particularly using the info wars platform, which Roger stone himself has used. So just go back to pizza gate and the guy who showed up with an assault rifle after pizza gate that he saw so it's not their radical. And she was both restrained. But also trying to protect both the integrity of the process. And he I think it was really interesting is he finally got that, you know, his dirty tricks as in I himself as a trickster his dirty tricks here, which he may not intend. We don't know what is intentional in terms of promotion of violence. Maybe it was just a better way to fundraise doesn't really matter. When people go. Out and actually commit violent acts because of what you said, you know, Paul I've seen a lot of I've seen immigration lawyers and public defenders defense attorneys weighing in today saying if my client was out on bail and then posted an image of the judge in the case with crosshairs, they're not getting a second chance. What do you think? Absolutely. I think the judge went to easy or verger stone. So Chris remember the FBI Ray with twenty nine armed agents this watt team, the assault rifle they justified that by saying this is a dangerous guy nontheless he got released on bail. And what does he do? He posted image on Instagram of the judge and cross hairs, and then has the temerity to go to court and lie about it saying, I didn't know they were crosshairs, I thought it was all cult- civil if this was a guy named Kwami or pay jewel and not rush. Or stone? Not only with the judge have locked up today. The prosecutor would charge them with threatening judicial officer. Yeah, I should know one small thing that the crosshairs were just adjacent to the picture just to be scrupulously factual about the image of his posted. There's also my there's a strange thing happening Roger stone case, which I can't get my head around. So maybe you can eliminate this case is going to go for months, right? I mean, he's going to go to trial, and we have this reporting of the mole reports going to be delivered. But those are Muller's prosecutors, right? They're going to have to stay on that case that your understanding look. Yes, what I said earlier today was there's a. The journalists will say this is wrapping because there we're hearing that there's going to be a report from Robert Muller lawyers. Here is this is at we're finishing act two of three act play. And now we're moving into the third act. It's not because it's over. There's not a rap there are there's a trial. There may be more indictments. And there's the continuing investigations that are happening out of the US attorney's offices, which are a continuation of the Muller probe, even if they're not called the Muller probe, and what we heard and what we learned yesterday from Nicole Wallace from the Andrew McCabe interview. Which is so important is he intentionally were Nuys the pro what became the pro in a way that would protect the integrity of the investigations. So that they could go where they needed to go without interference from the White House that critically important. Actually, today's hearing some kind of bad news for Donald Trump. So Roger never apologize. Never say. You're sorry stone he grove, man. Yeah. He gravelled he Plitt. He begs the judge not to send him to prison. This is a man who does not want to go to prison who's charged with five council fos statements that he does not have a defense too. That's why he's attacking the judge and the prosecutor rather the making case so unless he's making a deal homeboy is going to prison for ten or twenty years. And so the fact today that he clearly does not want to get locked up means that he's gotta make a deal or again, he's going to be in prison for the rest of his life or Donald Trump pardons him. Might happen. That's it's a great point. Because everyone who is in that courtroom today when you saw the transcript was noting that Mr. defiant, Nixon impersonating down the block tough. Roger stone was nowhere to be found as he lay himself before the mercy the court and Paul it's a good point because from a psychological perspective that was a tell that the man is not particularly interested in spending time behind bars. Which is of course, the threat that is looming over him right now. Which is something the White House might take note of Paul Butler, and Maya Wiley, thank you both. Still ahead. Deafening. Silence. In the White House on the arrest of white supremacists. Working inside the government planning a mass terror attack. We're learning about the Coast Guard Lieutenant arrested last week, and why Donald Trump hasn't said anything about it. Learning more today about the Coast Guard Lieutenant who's being described by prosecutors as a domestic terrorist who intended to murder innocent civilians on a scale rarely seen in this country. That's a quote Christopher Hassen appeared at a hearing this afternoon. The judge ordered him held for at least two more weeks. Prosecutors revealed that he spent hours online researching famous mass attackers, including the Yuna bomber. And the Virginia Tech gunman has him was arrested Friday on drugs and weapons charges. Prosecutors say he had fifteen weapons of thousand rounds of ammunition stockpile of drugs and list of targets, including prominent Democrats and journalists the only reason we found out about any of this is because of a college professor she must Hughes the deputy director the program on extremism at George Washington. University tweeted about the case yesterday after learning the details from attention memo was filed in Maryland court, naturally when news outlets all this. They picked up the story. But to be clear, that's not how we normally learn about these kinds of things this is a case where. Good police law enforcement work. Now, someone who appears to be clearly dangerous before he's able to do something terrible. Usually law enforcement wants to take a victory lap on that happens and yet for nearly a week after the arrest there was complete radio. Silence. From the FBI from the investigator from the prosecutors from the Justice department and from the White House, there's still no response in the White House despite repeated questioning from NBC news about if we're when the president was briefed. And if he was aware of the arrest when he tweeted yesterday, the New York Times is the enemy of the people joined now by someone who used to literally run communications or the Justice department whose job included putting pressure leases on these kinds of cases that Miller former chief spokesperson at the an MSNBC, national security and Justice analysts. Okay. Matt I I I was scratching my head yesterday about how did we not learn about this for a week? Am I wrong? This is weird. It's absolutely weird. It's been six days. Now, you would expect them to put out a press release when they had rested him on fr. And if not on Friday yesterday when they revealed these details about what exactly he was plotting. And I would say, you know, your point about them wanting to take victory lap is true very much do wanna take victory that. But there's there are also law enforcement reasons why they like to publicize these cases not just for this case. Although that's important you'd like to know if they're other people who know information about him you'd like them to come forward because this isn't the only white this is the only white nationalist domestic terrorist out there. These cases have been on the rise and by sending by publicizing. This case you send the message that will take it seriously. And you also let other people who might be around divest potential, domestic tears the warning signs if someone is stockpiling guns and reading right wing manifestos. That's a warning sign. It's time to call the FBI it makes our country less safe by not publicising these cases, that's a great point. So there's someone in your life. Or you earn countering very obsessed with like eliminationist rhetoric and constantly talking about mass killers and fall and stockpiling weapons. You might be a little concerned and something like this. Consort of give people a little bit of a of an incentive to think harshly about that. Yeah. That's absolutely, right. And that's why the Justice department publicizes these cases and similar cases. Although I will say this isn't the first time under this administration. They have sat on one of these. There was a case of a white supremacist last year in Nebraska last January who tried to take over an Amtrak train. He had a gun to go train was subdued by the crew and passengers and the Justice department in that case didn't put out a press release evenly found out because some local reporter as happened. Here was combing core filings happened to come across it. It makes no sense. It's not the way we did things when I was there. It's not the way we did that just did things in previous administrations. It's really hard to come up with a good reason. I wanted to give them the benefit of the doubt here. But I cannot come up with any reason why they wouldn't publicize this case. And what did you reason? It's also the case that I think there's concern, obviously, this is kind of embarrassing factor a little bit because the guy is at current officer Lieutenant in the United State. Coast guard. He's in the marine for twenty years. I mean, you wonder if that plays into it shouldn't for the Justice department. Obviously there that's the that's the case for the military there. There's an uncomfortable question about whether there's white supremacy on the rise military. There have been studies and polls about that recently that have seemed to indicate that's true. But that's not the Justice Department's concern. The Justice department doesn't have any concern about about that case they have a concern about keeping the country safe. And the the way you keep the country safe is when you arrest these people you alert the public, so they know how to be on the lookout for others others with warning signs. I could see whether coastguard would have this concern. Right. And I know why the White House might have different concerns political concerns. But there's no reason no legitimate reason. The Justice department shouldn't be talking about this case. All right. Matt Miller who worked Justice barn. Thanks for joining me. Thank you just ahead. So what was Donald Trump's lawyer doing Capitol Hill today? One of the members of congress who is about to question. Michael Cohen has some answers next. Cohen. Why are we on the hill today? Were you meeting with the Senate until team? The president headed the mole. Michael komo's on Capitol Hill with his lawyer today to review classified documents with Senate staff ahead of his closed door testimony, the Senate Intel committee on Tuesday, he will be appearing under subpoena there before voluntarily hearing appearing before two house committees later in the week is testimony of the house Intel committee on Thursday will also be closed, but crucially on Wednesday the whole world. We'll get to hear exactly what Michael Cohen knows when he testifies to the house oversight committee in an open session cone is taking full advantage of the platform after house oversight chairman logic Cummings announced the hearing yesterday cone tweeted, the schedule has now been set looking forward to the hashtag American people hearing my story, and my voice hashtag truth with a link to his go fund me defense page. One of the house oversight committee members who will be at that open hearing on Wednesday joins me tonight, congressman Katie hill of California. It's great to have you here. Nice to. Okay. I understand that. This may be thing that the share of this committee was handling the scheduling, but it was on. And then it was off. And now it's back on what should we make of that? Well, listen, I mean, it was very clear that both President Trump and his lawyer Rudy Giuliani. We're intimidating Michael Cohen. So he was he was it came off. Because of that, exactly. I mean, his family was in jeopardy. He felt. Credibly in fear for his family's safety. And so the fact that we've been able to to now get him to come voluntarily as something that we're really happy about. This is something that the American people do need to hear in an open setting sort of document put out by logic Cummings office about the scope and purpose of the hearing. It's include the presence debts and payments linked to efforts to influence twenty sixteen election, the presence compliance financial disclosure requirements compliance with tax laws efforts by the president's attorney to intimidate Mr. Conan, others not to testify. What are you looking forward? You're going to get a chance to question. The man what are you looking forward to finding the pieces that I'm most interested in are these conflicts of interest pieces because I think that they're sign after sign after sign showing that Trump and his his allies his appointees, the people who are working for him care more about business interests, and who they're protecting than they do about the American people, and I think that is incredibly dangerous, it's disturbing. It's something that we all need to be watching very closely. So I want to focus in on those conflicts of interest. I also think that the debts and payments around the influence of the election is something we really need to be paying attention to their attempts to undermine our values into undermine democracy and western democracy as it is. And so all of that needs to be exposed as much as we possibly can. And so that we can move forward. This is the tragedy of travesty. Zero in the last thing. So it's sort of a remarkable in the presence essentially stands accused in federal court. According to the southern district of New York and Michael Cohen of more or less ordering him directing him is the word to commit a felony which was the punting payments in violation of campaign finance law. Like, that's just a thing that we all kind of know, but move on what do you think about that series, is suppose my mind, right? Because you you look back to Nixon and Watergate these are things that were happening in the dark, right? And these are things that we got the tapes. And that's what showed that this was that, you know, what we were able to finally bring him to impeachment alternately resigned for was this this basically this hiding of smoking too. Yeah. But he's doing it. Trump is doing it in public on Twitter. And it's almost like, you don't even know the Justice system doesn't even know quite how to respond to that. Because when somebody's committing crimes so blatantly, there's no hiding anymore. So I think figuring out how to also think that over the past couple of years. Because there has been just so much noise about this. So much noise about the Russian investigation. It seemed like partisan politics, at least many people in the beginning that I think a lot of people are drowning it out and they're getting sort of depth to it. And that means that we're losing the gravity of this. And I think we really need to bring that back up to the public. It's interesting you say because I think I would agree with you. I think open hearings are part of rectifying that I'm curious your freshman member. Right. You rent a race? And I looked Jewish. Look some of the is it was a race that had a lot to do both healthcare sort of kitchen table issues. What do you think about communicating to your constituents about how important this is how much they should care about it, whether or not they're knocking down your door about this is literally something that's been on my mind constantly lately, especially I just came from the Munich security conference and heard all about how Russia is the number one threat to us into our allies. And it's known is broadly known within the defense community. It is known within everyone of our allies. It's it's just common knowledge. Right. But then to see the way that all of this kind of cozying up has been happening. It kind of brought it all into focus from me of like way. This isn't this isn't just noise. This isn't just something that's related to Democrats and Republicans this is completely about the security of our country and who's in power and who they're looking out for. And so I think that you know, we took it off to defend to protect and defend this country from threats foreign domestic and that usurps everything else because frankly, healthcare doesn't matter if we don't have a country congress from Katie hill. Thank you very much. Thank you coming up. We have. Massive development in the Republican election fraud case, unfolding, North Carolina. What happened in that courtroom today? Shocking stuff next. Yet. Another stunning development today North Carolina's night congressional district where we have been reporting for months about what appears to be widespread electoral fraud by the Republican candidate's campaign just hours ago. A state board unanimously voted to hold a new election that coming after Republican candidate himself. Mark Harris, did a traumatic about-face. Throughs testimony. I've listened to over the past three days. I believe in new election should be called is become clear to me that the public's confidence in the ninth district. See general election has been undermined to an extent that new election is warranted. Our remember Republicans I dismissed any chance of fraud went ballot irregularities came to light just the few days after the elections. And then when it became obvious that something weird did happen. They said it didn't involve enough ballots to affect Harris's apparent nine hundred and five lead and Dallas Woodhouse the executive director of the state's Republican party even attack the state elections board saying, and I quote him here, we think they have abused. Their discretion violated the statute, this will never end up in court. The fact of the matter is Mark Harris won the race. He got more votes. Now when it became obvious, Harry Harris, maybe didn't win after all Republicans began saying Harris did know anything about what went on or about Leslie McRae. Dallas. The operative who appear to run the whole illegal absentee ballots game and was paid by his campaign. Then that contention was shot down yesterday by none other than Mark Harris's own son assistant, US attorney, John Harris shows up at the hearing and testifies. He emailed his own father in writing back in two thousand seventeen about worries that Dallas was breaking the law. And you wanted to be clear that this could all blow up be referred to the DA. Yes. The legal Jim which thought they were legally Levy malice. All of which led to the Republican crystal candidate, Mark Harris, the father of the man's there. Testifying kind of against him a man who had sued previously to be seated in congress because it was not fair that led him to his emotional reversal for the state board of elections today. You're with me now W S reporter Joe Bruno who stellar reporting on this story just want to poke award this week and has been following the case, Joe, really quite something. What was it like to see Mark Harris in that room on the stand today? It was a really interesting day as one person put it it's been a week full of bombshells today was nuclear really after lunch break. It was a really weird feeling inside the room. We saw people walking back and forth. There were no signs of marquess. I saw his campaign manager storm out walk briskly on the phone. That's when we all knew something was up, of course, when the state board came back in Mark Harris, eventually came in the room. He got on the stand and headed stunning mission saying that he does believe that there should be a new election. He has fought that for a long time. In fact, they've been fighting in court now that has been called the question is what what happens next and what happens next for Mark Harris. So what happens next is there's going to be a new election and recently, lawmakers North Carolina passed a law that will require a new primary. So we're going to have a whole crop of Republican candidate. I have a feeling that are going to want to jump in this race. Of course, want to look and see if Mark Harris is going to run for this seat. Again. Maybe they'll look and see if the former Representative of the seat Robert pittenger will jump in the racist. Well, but we're looking at a new election here with a new primary potentially a second primary, and I'm thinking we're looking at us similar time line to the third congressional district seat which was Walter Jones's before he passed away. Final question McRae. Dallas has he is he as face criminal charges as of yet. No, he has not and we actually checked in with the Wake County district attorney today who is overseeing the criminal investigation of this manner to separate parallel investigation. She has been monitoring this hearing all week she's expecting the state board descend over their findings to their office. And one thing she stressed. No, one got any immunity for testimony that they provided. Yeah. That's another shoe that seems like it will surely drop soon. Joe Bruno thanks again for all your great reporting on this. Republicans have been fearmongering about fictional voter fraud by democratic constituencies for years. The president even set up a panel to investigate what he claimed were millions of preposterous claim millions of fraudulent votes in two thousand sixteen naturally. The panel found nothing because there was nothing to find in Texas. Republican secretary state even had to apologize for a false claim about supposed thousands of legal votes. One. Of course, what's the president tweeted about the granddaughter knee? Of course is the biggest case of electoral fraud in recent memory one that has nothing to do with all the restrictions. Republicans say would solve the non existent problem voting fraud, the biggest case of electoral fraud in recent memory, no came from the Republican campaign in North Carolina. Just imagine for a second. If Democrats had done what the Mark Harris campaign appears to have done in that congressional race here. Talking about that Gupta. The presidency of the leadership conference on civil and human rights Djamil. Smith senior writer at Rolling Stone. Vanita? Play out the fought experiment. What what would we looking at? If there was a democratic congressional candidate who engage in what appears to be flagrantly illegal criminal ballot. Ballot-fraud? I mean, there'd be no question that we would have seen about twenty tweets from the president and the whole cadre of folks who've been peddling these lies for so long really to advance policies aimed at shrinking the electorate and preventing folks of color mainly from from exercising. The franchise. This would be a massive thing. Just see that they would be using to justify a whole slew of proposals and policies to shrink the electorate, and that's what is so deeply ironic. I actually think what's so interesting right now is we're in this moment in this country, where the November elections brought out voters that were frankly, really annoyed and fed up with corruption in our political system, and they were voting for democracy reform in Dan, and we've got HR one now in congress seeking to end all of these lies, and that's where I think the American public needs to be, but this kind of scandal. I think really the crickets that we're hearing from that crowd. That has been putting those lies. Fairly telling Djamil, what do you think? I think that she's writing. Thank we see here. Evidence of what actual voter fraud looks like ballot looks like. And I think that we shouldn't forget that North Carolina's ninth congressional district is a very heavily white district. You have a district. That's almost eighty percent white and yet the primary targets of this fraud were black and Hispanic voters. And so there's still a lot of missing ballots here there still a lot of things that are left to be investigated. This isn't over. Yeah. That's a great point. I want to play a little testimony. This is a voter in North Carolina nine precious. Call who's testifying before the the hearing on Monday about basically, having her vote stolen. Take a listen. That my. In signature. So the part of the scheme here appears to be vanita that this was this was both stuffing ballots are taking ballots and filling out for people. But also essentially racing the votes carrying up getting rid of the votes of people. They suspected we're into the democrat, primarily African Americans. Yeah. Look, this is a this is a criminal illegal scheme and the Justice department in Washington should be investigating. My understanding is the FBI is investigating. This is of gross bounce of proportions. Bladen county used to be covered by the Voting Rights Act. We Shelby county decision gutted that. And we now need to enact restore the Voting Rights Act and pass a whole slew of reforms to protect the franchise. We saw massive voter suppression tactics just in this most recent election, the stuff is not from the nineteen sixties and seventies. We are seeing the stuff playing itself out in undermining people's faith in it right now. And that's why we need to. Really? Pass these major reforms that we're seeing pass states round the country. We need to do it. Federally Djamil one of the sort of ironic. Details of this is the fact that so much focus has gone into voter ID on the Republican conservative side to stop what they say is some vast amounts of in-person fraud in this case. And the thing we know is that that essentially doesn't exist the one place there might be vulnerable in absentee ballots, which we also know Republican constituencies tend to use more than democratic constituents. Right. And so the thing is the thing. I see here is vigilance. I think we're not gonna see the reforms passed that we need. We're not gonna see the Voting Rights Act magically restored. What we need to have here is voter vigilance going forward at least the next couple of years potentially till we at least another president potentially democratic takeover in the Senate to get these reforms passed Democrats going to signify what their priorities are in. In the Senate with HR one within perhaps other legislation, but voters are going to have to make sure that they are on top of their own stuff their state laws their local ordinances, and frankly their candidates own morals as we see with Mark Harris to make sure that their votes count. Yeah. Do you think there's going to be fallout from this vanita sort of national sense? Yeah. I mean, look, I think there's been fallout from the two thousand sixteen election. I think the kind of level of concern around Russian meddling voter suppression targeting and kind of really preying on the vulnerability of racism in this country by outside actors by folks inside the peddling of these lies around, you know, massive illegal voting in person illegal voting all of this stuff is having a really corrosive effect. And I think there's no question that we will see in the upcoming election. These issues play themselves out in real in national stage as as they well should to engineer Smith. Thank you. Both your time that does role in you can catch us every week night at eight o'clock on MSNBC. Don't forget like us on Facebook. That's Facebook dot com slash all in with Chris Christie's from MSNBC every day. I come to the office, and we make television show every day. I think to myself there's so much more. I want to talk. And so this is our podcast. It's called why is this happening and the whole idea behind it is to get to the root of the things that we see out. Every day. They're driven by big ideas. Each week. I sit down with a person uniquely suited to explain why this is happening. New episodes of wise this happening every Tuesday. Listen for free wherever you get your podcasts.
Study shows concerning voter sentiment on both sides
"From young finance, this election Amish I'm Rick Newman and I'm hosting by myself this week. Alexis Christopher my normal partner is off I'm sure we will all be glad when she is back next week. Joining me today is Larry Diamond. He's a political science professor at Stanford, a senior fellow at the Hoover Institution, and he's one of three co-authors of a startling new study startling to me anyway. For the democracy, fund called democracy, maybe attitudes on authoritarian authoritarianism in America Larry thank you for joining and. Tell us. The top line findings of this survey you and your college did. Well thank you, appreciate your having me I think there's. There's some reassuring news in there some very deeply troubling news, the reassuring news rick is that if you look at just the superficial level. Of Support for. As the best form of government. In United States you're talking. Indian states yeah, seventy five to eighty percent of Americans consistently say democracy is very important. It's the best way of governing. Of course we want to live in democracy and those levels have been. Really impressively consistent for some years now and certainly over the three surveys that we've done annually in two, thousand, seventeen, twenty eighteen, and then this most recent survey was conducted at the end of the last year twenty nineteen. But Rick It's when you pro- beneath the surface. And look at the trends over time. And a push our random sample love of the American public, the American voting public. A little bit more. vigorously in creatively that you find the maybe aspect, the equivocation aspect and a heck of a lot of anxiety around this coming election in November. So give you one element of the equivocation aspect. When you ask Do you think it'd be a good idea? To be governed by a strong leader. Who doesn't have to. Bother. With Congress in elections, which is an item that's been used in dozens of countries around the world to signal a readiness for authoritarian you. You can say only a quarter of the American public. Would support that option, but first of all. That's not a trivial number. And second of all when you look across the three surveys, 'cause we're serving people the same people each year, so we can see how their attitudes change or not over time. You know a third of the American public is endorsed that option in one of the last three surveys at least. And a quarter of the American public has endorsed the option of having army rule as a An option for the country. And I could go on and these Terry options, but the other two things I'd say that really disturbed us. Our first of all. That there's. A lot of willingness to cut a president slack to act unilaterally. If! They think it's the right thing to do. And there we never found. An absolute majority of the American public willing to say no the Congress. Has To. Be consulted here. The president can't act unilaterally in the various scenarios now obviously, if there's a national emergency or were attacked that's one thing, but just to say because the president thinks it's the right thing to do and have a plurality of the American public or a large minority support that that's disturbing. Let let me just ask you to explain some of the terms here so when you ask people if they. Approve of a strong leader, so some people might think a strong leader is like Ronald. Reagan you know somebody who? Seems competent and confident, and in charge of but your your our wording, these questions in ways to signal and authoritarian leader, not to stop strong outgoing, confidently a right way. And, that's why we add on the words. Critical. Who doesn't have to bother with Congress and elections. Now. Does that mean shutting down the Congress? Does that mean cancelling elections? We leave that vague. But we have found it to be an indicator, so be before I go on to the elections wreck because we need to talk about how Americans are thinking about the November election and the scenarios we posed to them. But let's go onto army rule in previous surveys, we found that eighteen percent of the American public when they're asked well, there are different ways of governing. What would you think about having? The army come into to rule? And you get almost one out of five Americans who say yeah, that would be a good idea. We were kind of shocked by that. And so we that's the latest result, or that's an earlier resolve that is actually a result that we have had a consistently across multiple surveys, going back to when more or less. well twenty, seventeen, twenty, eighteen, twenty nine. It's been seventeen or eighteen percent in each of the last three surveys. So actually you know. I said to my colleagues look, let's really press them on the this. Let's add question. That says look. This is the scenario we pose to you. The American military leaders suspend elections closed down the legislature and temporarily take charge of government in order to address extreme corruption. Okay, so those no doubt now we're talking about basically military dictatorship. And what do you think that percentage of the American public is? That would support that. This is the wine. I'm afraid it went up. Didn't it went up? I think you said from eighteen percent to twenty four percent Mino- didn't go up, but it didn't go down very much. It went down to thirteen percent. But, here's something else. That's troubling if you want to. View it this way you can think of it is going up. Thirteen percent endorsed a unambiguously kind of military dictatorship question and another eighteen percent said they weren't sure if it would be a good thing for the country now around one third. Yeah, you're pretty close. That's thirty one percent that didn't reject it. Hub So let me I want to spell out. What the Democracy Fund voter study groups on Easter Besar because he's not so people see political polls all the time, and usually it's a random poll telephone pole of around a thousand people. This year's is a different survey. So can you explain what's different about it? What's different about it in part is that it has. A more people but the two. Things that make it particularly different Rick. Are First of all. That We're not asking mainly, although we we do need to know, are you a Republican or Democrat? Do Support Trump, or you know a democratic national me were cutting deeper as you can already see from the items we've discussed to ask. What are your attitudes toward democracy? What are your? What's your level of confidence in the election? What would you be willing? What kind of scenarios would you be willing to support? In? Of You know possibly defecting from democratic norms and the second thing that makes this different. Is that we have interviewed people. repeatedly over the last three years the same people, so we can follow the consistency or alternation in their views over time, and it's also around five to six thousand people right. Yes, it's a larger sample is frequently the case though some Some national surveys on hot button issues will will use the sample about in these people. This is always important question in political pulling people that you know our voters or just a sample of the adult us, population. It's. A. If. I recall registered voters. It's not necessarily everyone who's going to be able to vote. Are What everyone who's GonNa. WIND UP VOTING! but people who You know at least have suggested a an intention to, but yeah, there's another. To again to me startling. Finding out of this, which is that Nearly one fifth of people of both Republicans and Democrats say that they would support some level violence after the November election of their candidate didn't win. Can you go into that? Well now we come to. The two most troubling findings. In our report, Rick. first of all we ask voters whether they would be willing. To support or condone. Violence if they're candidate didn't win the twenty twenty presidential election. The specific wording is what would you think about? If. There were a of violence if the other party one. The twenty twenty presidential election. Do. You think there would be no justification for violence a little justification. A lot of justification or a great deal of justification. and. The percentage of the American public who basically said there'd be a lot of justification. was about nine to ten percent. In each of the two parties. Interestingly, it was about the same. For both Republican identifiers and democratic identifiers, and then another ten percent. Of respondents who identified as Republican or Democrat, the same percentage in each party said there would be at least a little justification for violence if the other party one. So you've got one in five. Republicans and one in five Democrats who say. in late November and early December of twenty, nineteen and I don't think the number is going to be lower right now. Given everything that's happened. That if the other guy wins, there might be some justification for violence and nine to ten percent. WHO said yeah, there probably be a lot of justification for a violent reaction. Now an percent may not sound like much Rick, but we have two hundred, twenty, five million. Adults in this country and you know my guests is well, you know the numbers probably. Roughly forty million. People who probably identify as Democrats may be another thirty, five, forty, million who identify as. Republicans so we're talking about millions of people who think there would be a lot or a great deal of justification for violence. If the other party wins well, I think it was. I looked it up. I think one hundred and thirty eight million people voted in the two thousand sixteen presidential election, so if you just took it up a percentage of people who voted Thirty something million people. so so to be very clear about this survey. Question was not. Do you think justified to commit violence it was. Would you support violence in theory committed by somebody else, right? It wasn't even that it was. Do you think violence would be justified. So, it's really. Would you sympathize with it? Would you condone it? So I want to be very careful here our assumption is. That only Only a small percentage. Of the, ten percent of each group of Party identifiers who say violence would be justified only a small percentage. Would probably commit violence? But you look what's happening in the United States of America these days, and you can no longer dismiss the possibility that this is going to happen so. At election. Right so let me ask for some context here. Larry is there. Is there any historical data that tells you whether this is a considerably more troubling than it has been in the passers, a possible that twenty or thirty years ago, people might have given similar answers. on. We don't know the answer to that question. Because to my knowledge. This question is never been asked before. We wanted to get beyond some of the questions we've asked before and probe deeper particularly given the acute levels of polarization. We're seeing in the country now. Which certainly are as? Strong now as they have been. at any time in the past as you know. So We're innovating here in question. Wording the value of innovating. Is You. Get a new angle on what people think and what they might condone the disadvantages. You have nothing to compare it to I think the your your study says, and by the way anybody can get this on the Internet I always encourage people to go find these read it for yourself. It's called democracy, maybe I the Democracy Fund Voter Study Group just do a web search and go find it. The study does I believe refer to some earlier limited, but some there's some poll results on the question of army control at least from nineties or late nineties, right? Is that changed over time that has climbed up. since the. Nineteen nineties it several percentage point sire. and on the other hand support for a strong ruler. is slightly lower. than what it was at peak. But You know we now have a strong ruler. Doesn't have to bother with Congress in elections so mid. The words have more serious music. So there? You studied democracy all over the world including places that. Don't have it places that barely have it places the USTA habit. Is All of this. Suggest to you about the state of democracy in the United States. The most important point I would make Rick is the contextual one. which we try to keep coming back to in our report. which is you've got to? Keep putting the numbers in the context of what's been happening in the United States. So you might say. Oh people are blowing off steam when they say violence might be justified. But. We haven't had an incident before in my memory. Similar to what happened in the Michigan state legislature on May first where people with weapons went into the Michigan State Capitol. and intimidated the state legislature forcing them to wear bullet-proof fats, and then later when they were getting ready to reconstitute. Inducing the government to actually close the building down to ensure that it wouldn't be invaded again by armed protesters. And it's been a long time since we've had protests that have resulted in the violence that we've been seeing on our streets with the level of anger that we've been seeing on our street so when you see the level of polarization. The increasing willingness to display weaponry. the kind of incident. We had in Charlottesville Virginia way back with the whites. In right. Yeah, you begin to. You know take these. signals a little more literally perhaps. And then also keep in mind the other finding. That we haven't talked about yet. Which is scenarios by which people might reject the legitimacy of the election and again look at context of the Russian intervention. In the twenty seventeen election. The context of Trump raising. Significant concerns about the legitimacy of mail in ballots. The context of the candidate who? Lost the popular vote winning the Electoral College last time. And so they're multiple contexts in which. People might plausibly be mobilized. To reject the legitimacy of the election so in that context. We take a little more seriously. When we find that three in ten Republicans, say would be appropriate for president trump to refused to leave office because he has credible evidence or claims, he has credible evidence of illegal voting. And we take it seriously that fifty seven percent of Democrats say would be appropriate for the Democratic presidential candidate. To call for a do over election because the candidate claims to have credible evidence of interference by foreign government. These figures indicate a strong potential. For the losing candidate. To possibly a raise concerns that would provoke a crisis over the legitimacy of the twenty twenty presidential election. Worth pointing out. The closer this election is the more likely a problematic outcome becomes right I mean your poll. Probably more in. We've talked this talk about this on private prior editions of this podcast. We're probably going to have a lot more mail in ballots, which means it's GonNa take longer to count the vote and we may not even know the winner on election day. It's close. So this, so the one way to guarding a landslide election would be a terrific way to guard against this right whether it goes one way or the other. Yes, of course, the more decisive, the election outcome is. with the ability to. You know, extrapolate in obvious clear winner. On election night, the less scope for this kind crisis, but you can't expect that. And therefore. We make multiple appeals in the report and I will do so now and one of them Rick History, you! And all of your colleagues in the media. To help, educate the American people. About the fact that there's a very good chance we will not reliably know who the next president is. On, the night of the election or possibly for two three four five days after if there are some very close states. that are waiting for mail in ballots, and that will determine the winner of the Electoral College, people need to adjust their expectations and be patient. And not scream electoral fraud, but let the professional electoral administrators count the ballots and do their job. As as winding down here Larry Real quickly. If you could give a PSA to the candidates, themselves presumably Joe Biden and Donald Trump. What would you say to them? I would say first of all. Respect the process. And the election administration professionals running the process. And don't tried to suppress the vote. Or make it more difficult to vote. Or questioned the credibility. Of Arrangements. That neutral electoral. Administration officials might be doing to make it easier for people to vote We are in the midst of the most dangerous challenging circumstances for voting that the country has faced certainly in my lifetime. and we need to. Make it safer for people to vote at the polls, but we with all of the social distancing, and so on and adequate poll workers, but I think we also need to allow people more opportunities to vote absentee, or however it might be. And don't Jen up suspicion. Outrage and readiness to do something radical alerts dream. On the basis of no evidence be responsible because the consequences of irresponsibility in rhetoric or posture, our survey results show could be much more dangerous than in the past Larry Very thought provoking and possibly worrisome stuff. Thank you so much for filling us in on all of this. That is Larry Diamond of Stanford. In the Hoover Institution I'm Rick, Newman alleges Christopher's gives such a crisp clear sign off I think all I can remember to say is I'm Rick Newman. Follow me at j, Newman and thanks for watching.
Jerry Barmash - Political Analysis, Impeachment 2.0, Media Coverage.
"Strange times in american government. And we'll talk about it on this episode of the mind. Tv podcast Welcome my friends. Get another episode of the mind. Dog tv podcast. I'm matt thanks for coming in and it's great to have you here as always in all that kind of stuff you know about the We're gonna talk about politics. Do politics your favorite subject. I know But what else can we do this. No way to escape it right now. My guest has been with us. before And you will be with us again. My guest today is I'm more waiting for him to arrive. He's actually finishing up a an interview with somebody else. Right now And he'll be in with me any moment but Jerry barmash who is a A new york city Journalists who is now a podcast. And i i see him every day and follow him everyday on twitter and kind of No one what is Takes on some of this stuff. But i thought it would be great to share it with the audience now before he gets here before. I get a chance to talk ten. Let's talk about my sponsors really quickly audio books now. Dot com is sponsored. Today's program and audio books now. Dot com is a supplier of guess. What at the guest audiobooks. Congratulations you're pretty smart anyway. You know about the convenience of audio books but you also know you can get just about anywhere on the internet today. So why audiobooks. Now dot com. Why why why. Well the edgewood simple. I don't want to call you. Names the answer is simple. It's price point price. Point price point. audiobooks now club. Pricing plan is simply the best deal on audio books. You'll find it. Offers the savings and flexibility not found anywhere else with save on everything discounts. Rollovers exclusive office lousy program. Incredible selection and cancel anytime policy simply cannot be beat. Plus get a free premium audio book on select titles. Start your free thirty day now. A dirty day trial. Now when you click the lincoln and description Usually four ninety nine a month. But it's absolutely free for the first thirty days. You're not happy at anytime during that first. Thirty days of canceling. You won't be build a penny lincoln. The description and i certainly do appreciate you patronizing now that come Also today's program is brought to you by fund wise capital you know about capitalist business lender matching platform that gets you the best credit line guaranteed. You can apply online and sixty seconds or less lesson. There's no effective credit to see how much you can get used to funding for anything. You need to start to grow your business. Wait did he say start. Yes he did say start of. You don't have a business yet. But he got a solid business plan. They can help you get money. Money money money it. The best funding you can qualify for their strategic in their matching platform stretches to of lenders to find the very best possible option. For your unique situation. They have hundreds of five star reviews on google trust pilot and facebook and in april rating with the better business bureau. They provide unsecured lines of credit zero percent interest for nine to fifteen months unsecured loans loans based on income short-term gap a bridge loans. It works real estate startups as i mentioned franchises restaurants. Any kind of business and again a product get started with them. It's really simple. You just go to apply that was that com slash mine dot play dot com slash again. The links are in the description. And i do appreciate your patronizing my sponsors. Now if you're saying to yourself dam. I hate listening to him. Read these dumb ads every time at the beginning of the program. Here's some good news for you. We have a patron hates. Now just started it and on the patriot on page has several tiers but they won dollar a month level. You can get all the content absolutely free no ads whatsoever. The you don't have to put up with the ad you don't have to fast forward or anything just listened to the show without a single ad and there are other Bonuses and special content are that you will get just for patriot. Subscribers the beginning here is just a single dollar a month you can't beat that And the link to the patriot. Page is in the description as well. I'm waiting jerry barnish And we're going to be talking about the state of the union in such as it is With everything that's been happening in the last. I want to say we can have. But it's actually been longer than that i think we saw The what we calling the interaction play out Less wednesday which was a week in a day ago. Eight days ago now But it started. The seeds of that started a long time ago even just before the election When we when trump was already Signaling that he was going to call it a fake election because he knew he was gonna lose any was gonna come out early and claim victory before all votes were counted. He announced he was going to do that. and So with that you know lighting that fused started to Like the anger among the crowd of people who were Just ready to kind of do anything for him like most cult leaders and then he what he did was. He removed the top brass from the pentagon and put in a bunch of loyalists and from that point He basically told them to deny National guard Backup for the capitol police in the state of In in the case of a interaction they used the word insurrection. I'm sure A rally where that might get a little violent might get a little and then So he continued to lie about the election being Rigged whatever Cheat he lost like cheating. Now let's be clear There were. There's a reason for to believe the election was rigged and there's thousand reasons to believe it wasn't the reason to believe it was rigged. You believe everything. Donald trump says because he says it was rigged. And that's the only proof they offered only proved is donald trump's fantasy that if he lost because the rallies were so big people came out to rallies. Well you what. All the rally trump is how he hasn't had a million people combined. One million people voted for joe biden. Seventy four million voted for donald trump. So the rally sizes indication of nothing. The grateful dead wood out your donald trump by a factor of one hundred. They didn't win the election. they couldn't win an election. So don't be give me the rally site stuff now. The reason not to believe the election was rigged guo Sixty five judges including trump appointed judges Have said The election wasn't rigged fifty states. Have certified it that. Means fifty governors and secretaries of state and election officials in all states bay much republican states out of the sixty five judges forty eight of them were republican and over. Thirty of them were trump's appointees including his three supreme court appointees all shot down. There's no evidence of this beyond that His lawyers in court when asked by those judges said they could not claim that any fraud had taken place 'cause they had absolutely no evidence of it. That's in court. Records william embar. Who saved trump from impeachment. Not once but twice while from being removed from office twice once with the remote muller report when he totally us a bunch of bullshit about what the mullahs report. Actually said and then With the ukraine thing bar has stood by been completely loyal to trump. He said there was no evidence for the doj trump's own election fraud commission said. There was no evidence of voter fraud governors and secretaries of state who campaigned with trump and supported trump. Wanted him to win. So there was no proof of voter fraud so You have all that stacked up against for reasons for not to believe there was voted for it and then you have The only reason to believe there was any vote for it at all is because donald trump said so So the lie was perpetrated from the beginning they. Everybody knew it was ally republican parties. Many of the republican party got behind that line knowing full. Well it was a lie and with diffuse to what we saw. Eight days ago Looks like jerry with us now I'm going to bring him in. So we can get right into this discussion I see him struggling to get his camera stuff in order to basically give them a little more. We're going to try this again. Folks and i apologize for the technical difficulties. It is it. Is you know the Was trying to get you know. And when i say we. We're trying to get. I mean society's trying to get a a better use on all of these streaming technologies a better handle on them. They weren't made such mass Broadcasting with so many people doing its own who knows what the technical difficulties we to. Let's try to bring jerry backing. Nope i see him in the areas. All right that's better anyway. welcome. So i was i. Listen to you you're Livestream yesterday and Thank you. I think you pointed out A problem And the two guys you had on I don't know. I don't even remember their names But they didn't seem to give adequate answer is the as far as i'm concerned about Here we go here we. We were told that the impeachment and i agree dipping impeachment was absolutely necessary because of the timing and he can't be trusted and he's gonna try something else again so it's important imperative to get him out now and as soon as we do that we realized that it's not gonna happen before the end of his term. And why not wait to a hundred days after and all i could the only answer the two guys you were talking to could give you well. it was imperative to get him to get the impeachment started but then now that would sentence not going to be able to take it up right away It becomes a backburner issue and in that and thinks change. I don't think things change. I think we will lie to they. They knew all along. They just wanted to get impeachment on the. And i don't i don't like that one bit your take on that mad. Thanks again for having me. And i'm sorry about the delay i was. I had had an interview that i was doing for my podcast at noon. And i thought that that one hour would be more than enough and It it dragged a little bit. More than i thought so sorry about that. And then of course the wifi issues that along i was interviewing somebody who was at the insurrection. Well we can talk about that if you want after. But anyway by the guests james sample who's a constitutional law professor at hofstra university. And len elmore. And i didn't know he had been in law for many years. He was first round draft pick in the nba played ten years in the nba and he was for about thirty years he was a broadcaster For cbs and for espn a lot of the ncaa tournament games. So i said to me. Oh i can get your len elmore leonard. The leno more. I i mean i knew lepuc around. I didn't know he had been teaching at columbia that he had his A j. d. you know which is a law degree at harvard. I didn't i didn't know all of this and that he was a prosecutor anyway I think they both said that he should be convicted. But i think that they felt that if mitch mcconnell is not willing to take it up and that James clyburn of South carolina had said that they are That they would wait a chill. I guess up to one hundred days. Get the Get the biden next these cleared and then go forward but i but they certainly seem that it should. It wasn't wasn't that it was back burner because it wasn't important. I was bringing up the issue that you momentum right now shouldn't we shouldn't it just keep going and i think that i i feel it. More people would want that even democrats really absolutely. I agree with you. I think the problem but they said basically it changed because they got it through now and now that they got through. It's not as important to do it right now. Which makes no sense. I think it is even more important to do it right now. He's been impeached is even more dangerous. I think so it. It really is important again. I'm outta there now. And i think people are taking for granted. How serious would not. We're not looking at the scope of this thing and thinking this could happen again. Not only could it happen probable to happen again before the and i was just gonna say the one thing with that is the senate can wanna take it up now. All they want but if if mcconnell is not willing to bring His his the senators as the majority leader until the twentieth Then their hands are tied the best that they do is mean they could start it on the nineteen wouldn't get done There was talk that they could start at the afternoon of the twentieth But but treat to your point that he should be gone Immediately i mean that was the twenty-fifth amendment in terms of the quicker. The quickest route If if mcconnell is not willing to to bring them back Then it won't it won't happen Term so then it becomes the next the next phase which is penalizing him as far as the lifetime ban the serious. The real issue is that we don't have one republican with the gone ads in backbone of like a barry goldwater to go up and say listen you i. This is in your best interest. This is your best way out. Resign now pencil. Pardon you you'll be you'll be you'll have your safety net and you can get out. It's best for the country and But we don't have a single republican with that kind of backbone at this point there Cowards yeah i mean i think you mentioned gold water and we've talked about that yesterday. I think the dynamic is certainly different. The numbers were when they went including goldwater went to visit Nixon before he resigned they knew that he would be convicted. They knew that they were enough. Republicans that were that. Were willing to convict They they don't they don't i they. They don't have those numbers yet and they. They don't have the going that far yet. I think if this was a bit earlier obviously they would be doing the The trial with enough time and then they would have to figure out if they had the numbers and then they would have to speak to him. and have a heart to heart and they would have to be a decision but the it's a different A different set of circumstances right. Well i notice even this morning. Have peter navarro who is speaking for the present. Let's not let's not sugarcoat that anyway. Peter navarro when he speaks. He's speaking for the president. And he's still saying that they still are actively trying to overturn the results of this election. At seventy four million people voted for for trump and that makes trump the winter. Like right and they're just projecting that biden got less than seventy four million but we know by got eighty one million and i before you got here was going through all the reasons to believe That the election wasn't rig versus the one reason to believe that was rigged. And that's donald trump's fantasy so you have this long list of republican judges and republican governors and republican secretary of state and elected people campaign from all and william bar and the deal day and jumps on electoral fraud commission. All saying there was no fraud and you have. Donald trump saying there was and everybody people are just choosing to believe because donald trump believes it And that they didn't start there. That's the that's the issue. And that's why i think people are taking this very small. They think that while he just sent a write up they didn't mean for him the break in in my view. What we're seeing here is premeditation and an ample evidence of premeditation and coordinated effort. Here right now to believe that we're not out of the woods yet And i think there is going to be something serious happened. And here's the last point before you talk about this. No i know we're going to have some military. Backup on at the inauguration now and then we're talking about twenty thousand soldiers. You know national guard. i. I'm not sure that's enough this time. I know it probably chill would have been enough on the sick but i. I think they're gonna come with overwhelming numbers and because every state house is also threatened National guard is going to spread pretty thin on inauguration day and so all all Trump really has to do is to you know not order any more protection for people not up those numbers at all and i think we could still have another interaction. Okay few things. I want to bring up the the navarro thing. I saw that this morning. I retweeted it. I think it's appalling. I think it's disgusting Not the least of which is what we're talking about. What took place last week. With this deadly insurrection. Police officer killed two other police officers. Kill themselves others You know they're they're they're calling for pinson pelosi and execute all this stuff and as you said. There are warnings by the fbi capitals across the country targeting a possibly two days before two different days prior to the inauguration so all of that that cauldron of hate violence and they're still spewing this narrative This baseless claim of of a election fraud is is Is beyond reckless. It's just it's unbelievable that they they're still doing that. I mean and think about this radio networks are now which is which is like mcconnell on the floor of the senate Saying that no no no or graham saying we you know this has gone too far. You know when you're had eight weeks or six weeks to to stop this but in any event of a cumulus and others have said that if they're radio hosts continue with that same thread That same thought that The that the election was fraud And know that broadened didn't win fair and square they they could get fired And yet here's navarro In an essence a mouthpiece for the white house for the president and still doing that. I i think it's. It's absolutely ludicrous. That that could be done right now. I mean that could be criminal. I mean that really is amazing. That something like that could happen to biggest story Or the one of the biggest because there's so many big stories but the big big story in my view is the fact that Congresswoman from i believe she was also from georgia but not not crazy q. Lady but She claimed that she saw people giving the be insurrectionist a walk-through recon through days before You know the week before when when the pratt boy leader had a proud boys was in the oval office meeting with trump the same day the insurrectionist. Some of the guys with the walkie talkies. who have been in contact with them. or giving a recon walk through which is how they found some of the offices that are not marked. And i totally believe that. That's absolutely true if to that makes the story much bigger. It's premeditated Insurrection meant to really seriously Take the head of mike pence and probably nancy pelosi and a few others. Your comment on that right right now. We're hearing that that there may have been three or four members of congress who the day before took some of these apparently known of right wing extremists proud boys and who were incidentally Major players The next day I if true i i. It's it it certainly. Would you know. I think would lead to again to criminal charges or at least investigations of criminal charges I don't think that the president Whatever happens with the senate is out of the woods you know if he's convicted in the senate it's certainly does not mean he couldn't convicted Criminally outside of Of washington as far as the senate I think that he could face He and authors but certainly the president. I mean look the just that day. The rally i mean the president rudy giuliani. Don jr. sun all riling up the crowd. Which didn't to be riled up. I mean they weren't there to celebrate the president. I mean this wasn't a it was originally a saved saved the steel but then became a yes. I'm sorry lack delaying the in all of this here. Yeah we we were some of that because of the why fight issue hold on one second. He'll it's this jerry back back back on back jerry. Come on back. No i watch them again. wifi issues folks. Sorry about that. I know what what the problem is. Here let me see if i can probably can't so advanced about this back there. You know you're coming back. I know he coming back to come on. Come on back terry. Anyway i what would The stream rate maybe That will help if jerry comes back into the room. I don't know if he can see us here. Us whatever Up very i moved and should be nice and hd clear now backing studio. I i think i lowered the stream rate too so that might help a little bit anyway. yeah i totally I get it but it seems to me now With all that we're we're still hearing more stuff. Come out. Like for instance Today and this isn't been verified that there was any real contact yet but the interaction has had ted cruises or several people who were involved in the interaction. I should say. I ted cruz. Contact number with them in in written down in their Van have you heard that. I haven't heard that i you know. I guess that's all possible. I don't know if they just had his number or you know if there was if there was something more. I i don't know i can't really say i can't comment on. That's the reason. I believe there was contact. 'cause we saw it live Jim kosta who of course the white house will say. It's fake news and no matter what he says but in real time as it as it was happening on january six around two thirty said what. I'm hearing from sources close to the white house's the plan of war the insurrectionist is to stay inside the capital overnight. And a at moment. He said that. I thought well. Why is the white house in contact with the people inside the capitol and how were they so at least to me that the waste me to believe because in real time reported without even thinking about that connection that there was communication between the insurrectionist and the white house in the white house at that time was still celebrating still partying and that's when john don jr. did his little party video in medals came over in a narrow all settled right so i think it was some communicate. I it does seem to be a conspiracy. Yeah and you know and and police officers. I think that we're hearing more and more that the police were in some way told to stand down. I mean the fact and i just interviewed Somebody who was a witness with there not a participant but was there As a witness really is a to document What was going on to been been at many different protests And said that it was a complete difference from like a b- eleven. Protest in dc to this where it would complete Overmatched By the protester at protesters that that's a calm word. The rioters were And and and it's completely. He said that there were three hours after they were there again. At the capitol And and it took all that time before a they brought in the reinforcements so he said it clearly was He felt it was an inside job. Of course it will because you know. The national guard is is saying that in governor of maryland came out that you know they denied. They denied a national guard. Support for those guys and if you look at the actual beginning of the tape you see. There's not even a lot of capital police around. There might be a couple of hundred of them but for for a rally that they knew was going to be thousands and thousands of people and the night before in the city they had riots and violence already to have just a couple of hundred capitol police. There is extreme meghan or or on purpose is only to re ways. You can look at that so not looking good. I mean it's a really. Did you ever think in your wildest dreams i mean. I predicted this when trump got elected. I definitely predicted but still be imagery with shocking and the moment was shocking. I i was. I mean i. It hurt my stomach to look at it. I to think you know it was twofold one. This is going on. this is america. This is the you know major seat of government and you're looking at it and thinking. Are we in syria. Are we in not even north korea but really someplace where insurgents would try to overtake government. and i it it was it was. It was just so upsetting that this could you know it was surreal. It really was surreal. And of course the other part that was even more upsetting is the the president of the united states. Lit the match with the firecracker on this also at some level in your being. I'm sure you weren't really all that shocked. No that's right exactly. That's the other thing so as as upsetting is disturbing is this was that you can't believe it's happening. Then you know what a moment later. You're like yeah this this. We were on this collision course for not only the weeks and the few months since the election. I mean if if i'm being honest we've been on this collision course since even before the election. Right right i think we were on his course since two thousand fifteen Or early twenty. Sixteen in that first debate and i forget who even asked trump to question but the question was. Will you c- concede if you if you lose the election that the reason they asked that question was because they knew what we saw last wednesday was a possibility with him. So it's not like anybody this should surprise anybody The one thing that. I think i know people saying well he. He's still gonna own the republican party for a long time and you know. He destroyed the republican party. And all that kind of stuff. I have you know. I am deep in the water with trump Supporters and have been all you know most of my lifelong friends in where i am in suffolk county new york This is a heavy trump County and a lot of people i know are hardcore trump supporters. And two of them. Who would who would bleed for trump. no problem This week told me you know. I guess you're right. I he went full nazi and i. They're off the trump train which is encouraging to me. So i think the people saying that he's going to keep a hold on these people forever. I think you can underestimate Our ability to change and move forward and move on. So i do think the you know the the of the cuban on people in all those people in the proud boys and all the redneck part of america is gonna stick with trump for a long time but i think some sanity will come to the normal people who were seduced by his kong for the last four years and start to come out of it to realize while he was a really bad guy your take on a yeah i think again the the problem is not just trump. Obviously trump is at the top of the whole. You know food chain of of the gop. So you want to get him out of there and be in a way they already have with the tweets and that's gone and the facebook and instagram And now i think youtube and who not anywhere he can you know he. He's down to using a megaphone. I think on pennsylvania avenue. So that's great that that's important. But i think the bigger problem is this aiding and abetting that we've seen from from the party. You know his the trump loyalists And you know when some of them have turned some of them have pulled away And and it's good but it makes you question what took so long throughout certainly the election process But you know it was. It was kind of odd that Senator holly and senator cruz. Especially after the whole insurrection. They come back that night And they were supposed to be. I think four other four or five other states that we're going to be contested for the electoral college and they one by one. They knew we have to just you know. Move for calm. Move for unity and not do that and just go forward with the You know finish the vote and certified except though senators decided. No no no. We still have to fight for For pennsylvania and it was. I mean i thought the optics were terrible. Yeah yeah oh it's insane And you know it's to the point where And i know people are making excuses for them That they're afraid because they've gotten death threats they're afraid for their lives and their families laws and stuff you have to realize like people like the lincoln project they've had death threats daily for all that time If these people could actually kill everybody they wanted to. About one hundred thousand americans will all million americans would be dead already. 'cause they they death threats at all so the at something to overcome that and say i signed onto this job. Death threats are are part of the job on fortunately in america we have crazy people out there and and email and all that stuff you refer to the authorities but then when it comes down to it you swore You know he swore an oath to do the right thing for country. You have to do the right thing for the country and and hope that law enforcement can protect your family. Do you buy into any of those deaths. Fret best threat. I mean look. They're human. I understand it but they they have a higher calling you know as as as long as as lawmakers and and you know and we're we're at a crossroads here. This is an important moment. A you know you've heard that before but this is an extremely. This was an extremely important election. And we we see why Just think about if president trump were re elected You know i mean yes. This stuff wouldn't have happened but the idea of him being in office for another four years. Is it scary So i think they have a duty to separate not only separate. We're well past separate from the president To call out the wrong the fraud. You know all of this stuff. I mean the fact that you know this did none of this had to happen. This was based on a lie that was perpetrated for weeks and weeks about an election. I ended they had sixty different court cases. And they had recounts over and over and they had nothing. But but rudy giuliani going on these. These ridiculous press crusades. I mean it was. It was ju- it was just nonsense Gweat eath and i think people are taking for granted now that Okay january twentieth is gonna come and pass Come to pass and biden will be sworn in and things will come down the are you. Do you believe that eventually. Yeah i think that everything will come down certainly But i don't think it's going to be like that gay I that i don't know i think there's certainly. The violence issue is up until inauguration. And i'm not sure that it won't be an issue going forward for few weeks. I think this is going to be they're they're the the the trump people the trump supporters They've been emboldened You know and i. I don't think they're just you know the the they were always there. But you know they they they became they became ratko mladic allies almost. Yeah i mean if you wanna call this. It was domestic terrorism so they became radicalized And i think this is now a serious issue. So i think you know i. I almost like in Biden to a manager in baseball. That's that you know when you have somebody who's too hard nose and goes after the players and and then they have to fire that manager. Because now you need somebody who was calming influence and so the tide is turned. And that's obviously biden has the experienced wrong but he is the perfect person at this moment in time. You think so not i. I've gone back and forth on that. I thought that when He first after you know the week went by and they counted all votes any he came out and said you know the time now is to bring a hail of country and all that stuff i thought he had the right message but i being as old as he is and giving being dealt a hand. It's a really tough hand to play. Now the country has got you know. This is not the only problem we have. It's a huge problem. And it's a it's a. It's a problem like other president has ever faced before but there were other food problems as well can be kinda me in corona virus on our standing with the military and the rest of the world and in our defenses and and the fact that we have no allies really on our side anymore. Because we've cut lease so he's dealt right from the start and overwhelmingly odds stacked against you as a president for a guy who seventy six or whatever seventy eight years old however the all that difficult position you know he he he look. He's got a lot of things on his plate and and they're you know. Each one is more serious than the next just coming into office To try to you know tone down the temperature or whatever I you know he's very serious. And obviously we're in the still in the midst of a pandemic And and how. It's been going right now between the the response up until now and then obviously how the the the vaccine has been handled has been poorly at best I don't buy the age issue of as as an argument because or you know or that he loves you know has those things i don't i don't buy it because people have been like i'll do a an interview. I had some interview with a psychiatrist. About trump and people like oh what about our winners the interview gonna be about about biden and his dementia. I'm like well you know in the what about that. In americans need to know about how much americans know exactly. I'm not saying dementia. But they know is age they know exactly you on the surface how biden as and they're they're fine with that. I mean i don't know it gets even worse of two evils they they respect him and they You know he's bringing in a lot of. I think what's important is he's bringing not just kamla He's bringing in Experienced people for his cabinet and others. And i think he can rely on a lot of those people So i'm not. I'm not really concerned about his. Age is also another point that i would make is since he won the election More so than ever. He has been acting like the actual president. He's been speaking you know in terms of unity. Which is you know. it's not an easy sell for for those off his even a democrat. Who voted for him. Don't want unity right now. They want and rightfully so. I think i think. Gop needs to admit that this whole thing was a lie based on a lie. And they're not going to do that. I don't see how we can get unity until There is an actual absolute admission that this stuff was all based the lie but two point about dementia stuff. That wasn't my concern with biden. It's really simply this. It's a physical job and with its you know if it was just this with biden being that i wouldn't i wouldn't bat an eyelash but i know with so many huge issues coming up presidents. Don't sleep much anyway from guys that all. It's going to take a toll on him physically because he's going to get any sleep for the first one hundred days at all at all. And i i couldn't handle it. I'm twenty years younger than him or fifteen sixteen years younger but but i think that he will delegate i mean we've seen it from the people that he's put in place and from what we've heard of president trump. He was a micromanager for whatever you know leadership skills that he has he you know everything seems to go through him and while the president is you know the buck stops with the president. I think biden is it always not afraid to let other people Take important roles. Craig saying he really thinks. Trump is a russian asset. You know what. I don't disagree i definitely feel like You know at least you. There is absolute evidence that they cooperated with russia. They would working with russia. I mean the fact that people can still say there was no evidence of that is just mind boggling. When we know they met with they lied about the meeting. In the trump in trump tower right below trump's office with a rush known russian spy. And they said it was about adoption and then they admitted that that was a lie that it was really about getting dirt on hillary. We know that we know that for fact it happened the same weekend that trump's at russia if you're listening so i mean will The fact that he worked with them at least in that the mullahs report does not exonerate him. In any way in fact it kind of tends to incriminate him especially on obstruction of justice. And all that stuff. And they've all claim was. They couldn't find the smoking gun. I definitely think that that russia was a problem. He should've been increased over. The ukraine should've been removed over ukraine And they say well and susan collins said. He wanted his lesson all that weeds up to like. Gop is kind of destroyed themselves lost all credibility at all. And i know people are celebrating. That i think it's a terrible thing and You know admittedly as a pretty conservative guy. I i never liked either party. But i lean more towards the right my whole life but so i do have a reason to think that conservatives with is important but i think it'd be absence of a strong. Gop leads democrats to become radicalized within themselves at any one party system is a dangerous thing. I never liked the two party system. But what's worse is a one party system. So i think we need some kind of checks and balances to keep the democratic party on this and i. I don't think destroying the gop was a good thing. And i know a lot of people are celebrating. That your take on it. Yeah no. I agree with you completely. You know you. And i also wonder you know people have said. Oh trump's gonna have his own party maga- party. I don't know that that will happen. I doubt that the question is will there. Be a trump swing order. A trump person not necessarily the trump name. But somebody who is you know whether it's halley cruiser jordan that try to take that mantle and i it remains to be seen you would think those people are still a holding onto trump It remains to be seen after what took place last week if a and so what happens with the senate trial if if they want to now say he should be banned for life and we want to rid ourselves. That's mcconnell seemed to set in in quotes that he wants to purge the gop of him but we'll see he may just be saying that and and not actually convict him. will say Yeah it's really hard to imagine that. Mitch mcconnell would Say that because he's not one he's not a guy who needs to really he never really gave a shit about what people think about. He's gonna come out and say what's on line and laughing people's faces like i got football in. I'm calling the game shots here. And if you don't like it costs. I'm mitch mcconnell. And he's always had that attitude so i don't think he he's the kind of guy who just tries says something just to appease people will make them feel better. I think he's serious about that but We'll we'll see now We i asked you before if you thought this was going to come to an end when trump's at an or calm down and said eventually now i know you're old enough. I am old enough to remember Waco ruby ridge Ruby ridge with fresno in waco and oklahoma city. And i liken this to that moment those people at a. i've said this a of times those people when waco happened. They doubled down When ruby ridge happened they doubled down in waco happened. Nick doubled down again. Oklahoma city double down again and finally they went underground with driven underground by the Janet reno at trump trump brought them back out underground. So i can see an. I'm not predicting here. And i'm up i got. I hope it doesn't happen. But i could see january six becoming a anniversary that they are going to be kind of rowling around and these people we seen them. The far right militia types come out of the woodwork and get stronger year by year in the ninety s. I i'm looking at that. Probably going to haunt at least the first four years of The the next administration i. It's i'm look it's possible i mean i. I'm trying to be optimistic here at and hope that things. Will you know improve. The the anniversary is certainly something that they could. You know that they could honor those though. The the right wing extremists. I i don't know. I would think i would hope not But yeah i mean they you know. I don't know i mean i guess we we'll get a sense. I think in these coming days. Were you know. D- do does the state capital. Do they state capitals across the country. Do they get Attacked and infiltrated. And and what happens. I'm not as concerned. I think in. Dc because. I think now as you mentioned earlier. Now it's a fortress i so i. I don't think there's not going to be much in terms of spectators i think because of covid. So i don't think but i mean you're gonna have important people there between lawmakers obviously the new president and and some former presidents So the you know you don't want any anything to happen to them But i don't i don't think. Dc is the is the issue. I think as you say it's it's the lingering problem that they really have to Have to address humorous irony in this. And if it's a stretch to try to find some humor in any of this but Trump wanted military presence at his inauguration. He wanted that that army. And now biden's get off for the wrong reason but i could see trump wetness pants overseeing all those Those men standing around inaugur inauguration wishing that was the other thing is he would probably if he was tweeting after that while there was nobody at this inauguration i had much more. Yeah that whole thing which started the presidency with that lie. Yeah so But now you know this other stuff going on in the world and and you know it's funny it's not funny it said how the pandemic hasn't even really been addressed by anybody with any power to do anything about it since november third And so it's it's almost being ignored. I know there's a vaccine but it's being poorly distributed and nobody seems to really even be paying attention to that because of all this other crazy stuff that's going on So things are still getting worse. Wha what well no. I was going to say that. That's the problem. You've got a president who just in case we weren't sure is not being presidential in any way and you you know. He was doubling down for the last nine weeks or so since the election. I mean i don't know what he was doing before the election but he probably been doing anything Since then other than of this narrative about the the fraud with the election. So that that's been it. I mean maybe there was one Announcement about vaccines Thereafter but. But that's been it so he's not being he's not showing any leadership obviously. There's other things certainly that needs to be done right now. with covid the the lead And unfortunately there's only one president at a time so Biden can can speak all the words we want and hear what we want to hear from him but at and put together his team as much as possible but he still not the president so we can only do so much and also took several weeks before he was even able to start that he couldn't even get funds that another thing that was that that was Slowing them down at the beginning because they were you know continuing that the fraud claims and continuing the legal aspects and so the The the that see would not release funds for whatever that was three weeks or four weeks or something. What are you. What's your take on the relative. Almost complete silence of the fbi and doj except for a midnight release of a youtube video that got taken down within several hours after it. They've really said nothing about this. They've you know they haven't come out and talked At this at all what's your take on that Radio silence from the doj in an fbi analysts. The about what happened wednesday or about actions. What happened in the last week from wednesday. On i i i i know there was. They had a press conference Earlier this week. Monday or tuesday so somebody spoke at doj and there have been arrest but there hasn't been a lot. I mean a lot of people said there've been more arrests when there are these whatever. Blm or whatever protests. They've been many more This has been much fewer So i don't know because there was a press conference But yeah i mean. They're not they're not actively You know getting getting involved with With the media with their. So i would. I would agree with you there with waco they were. Ah janet reno was on television within fifteen minutes of of the Takeover of the compound waco. I mean so. This is eight days later now and again. I think that's been one youtube video. That was posted on midnight on monday. And by tuesday morning at eight o'clock it was it was taken down so it's like what what's up with that. Are they being stifled by trump. Or i i was gonna say. I mean there's the you know the there seems to be this the speculation that you know what we're not even in that press conference they didn't put the fbi director out they put a you know a a more of a career person not the head guy And the wonder is people have speculated on. tv is this because if trump a trump sees this then he'll fire And this way we can just do our job. Sorta radar Without the wrath of of the president which you know it comes back to the impeachment. You the same thing with the lawmakers that are afraid that You know of death threats that they'll they'll get killed terrible said but is unfortunately where we are due to the president. And you know in a way. That's impeachable in itself that we have to be in this position. Yeah absolutely and you know what they put themselves in that position. I feel bad for him. If you get a death threat. Of course i feel bad for you but you put yourself in that position by carrying the the the the lion and lighting. The flames of the You know Anger for eight weeks now really since the since the election and very few of them really backed off and really. I think lindsey graham was the closest to can't come and said he disagrees with which is still kind of incendiary disagrees with the georgia Decision but it a time to move on accept it and all that stuff like what what state of disagreed with ravaged burger campaign for trump. He voted for trump. He wanted to you thinking he all of a sudden after election day he said you know what i'm gonna i'm gonna be part of the deep state now joined the conspiracy against trump. When i am it doesn't make any sense at all. Yeah i mean you had that phone call that the washington post had with trump calling a the the to georgia secretary of state. That was that came out on a sunday and within a week it was lost because of everything else. With with a with the insurrection. It was it was the craziest week. I mean you know that that would have been huge in itself. I mean that could have been an impeachable. Absolutely i mean It'll can't he would claim perfect phone. Call i never said You know. I never do me a favor. It didn't mean do do me a favor. It meant to the country. Eh is always ways to parse the language with him and i think he's very careful to do that even in his speech when the the day you know on on the six when he was rallying them up he said you gotta keep fighting a few lines and mary said of course peaceful and blah blah blah. But that is soon as he said the word peaceful we went back to fighting. And you know mike pansy better do the right thing and you gotta make them do the right thing i mean and and at that point the crowd chanted hang pants hang pants hang pants and he just stood back there. It didn't say no didn't say. Hey that's a bad idea. You combat he just want. It gave mussalini. are they. Get me right right. I i agree i thinking you know. He threw in the the peaceful almost as an afterthought and people didn't even hear that correct. Yeah so it It's really It's beyond bizarre now Ed probably means nothing. I mean but it's in the news Vodka and jared with the secret service bathroom at this point. It's like such small potatoes. But i gotta ask what you think about that. They would not let the secret. They have six bathrooms in their house. They would not let their secret. Service added to protect them and protect their lives. That black them use a bathroom in their house so they had to rent an apartment next door or down the black basement apartment where secret service people could use the best one that say to you. I haven't heard that yet. Wouldn't let secret service use their through and so secret. Service had to iran te a apartment Two doors down from vonk. Jared daf six bats. They couldn't one to the secret service the entire last four years. So it's cost over one hundred thousand dollars to rent an apartment now so that secret service had had a bathroom they could use to doors down and whenever they are out and about they have to go use different bathroom than a bunka and jared. Oh that's that's bizarre. I heard that's that's that's a little I don't know it's almost like the the the the trump administration in in a nutshell right. It's a let them eat cake thing and again the appeal to which has always been busy to to. The trump supports was that he was a man of the people. A you know one of them. Meanwhile he's he sits and golden toilets and you and you don't get any better clear example of that. Let them eat cake type of attitude. Jared ivanka not letting the people who are charged with protecting their lives us. One of the six bathrooms in their house. Yeah by the way. did you hear. I'm sure you did that President trump wants to with the rudy. Giuliani the fees payable binding back. He's not gonna pay or wanted to go through him. Listen to that trump. He's never paid the bills for anything. That's why i hated him long before he ever decided to Get into politics. He destroyed a business. I was part of in the eighties because he you know his motif was a. I'm going to go in there and get credit to you. Buy products or services from a company that i know is struggling and really needs to work and just going to get get it based on my name and then never paid the bill and make them take me to court and and you know expand their legal defenses until the point where they can no longer sustain it. Then they'll write it off and go out of business. That was his motif and he did it to a business. I worked for a one thousand nine hundred eighty five eighty six. So i'm still holding a grudge from that. Not there's no doubt. I hold a personal grudge against him for that but that was his. Mo his entire life is do a working that way get credit based on his name And not go to a bank or get fraudulent credit and then not pay it off and force people because he could outlast them in court because he had an army of lawyers to take care of that right and of course we see Time and again in this administration the loyalty you know. They say it's almost like a coster nostra thing. Where if you have the loyalty. He's with you and then even as soon as the even something like with pence. He couldn't do anything with the electoral college and so right away. There was this this this break apart of a loyal soldier for the entire the entire term. Now this thing with rudy so you see that a lot bar who was very loyal and then that you know that fell apart because he didn't agree fired the the guy from homeland security with the The cybersecurity with the elections I mean we've seen at times. I know you have an appointment to get through but you brought up two things. I can't let go now. Bar resigned That's unlike that's very uncommon for a ag to resigned two weeks before a term is up or three weeks before term is up Thinking new some of this was was in the works and wanted to distance himself. Completely from that your take on that. That's possible yeah. I think so. It would have been nice. Possibly if he stayed. I don't know if it would have made a difference but certainly the I dunno photo. Smooth transition necessarily. He's already the the person that's doing it is the acting Or deputy but yeah. I think that it's there's two parts it's either. He was fed up and didn't want to be part of that lie any longer Or he thought that this was You know that lie was was at exacerbating in in into what would be potential and then became deadly violence. So yeah i think that that's That's certainly part in one of the most loyal trump guys and the other one. Of course you just mentioned with pence and now it pets doesn't strike me as a dumb guy but It it's a completely one hundred percent apparent to me. Trump had every intention of seeing. Mike pence killed that day. He had every intention of that. He got them chanting. Hank people go. Those chance aren't simultaneous. folks. I mean the proud boys when when they're doing something they met with with with trump a week before the day he announce that rally was going to happen. They met with them in the white house. i'm i can't like hang pence doesn't just happen spontaneously. That was a planned thing. Guys went around said hang pats hank prancing pets and told everybody to say it and then when the moment came they said it. And then when they marched they said so it it it's pretty apparent to me that trump foresaw an end game here where and they rented a gallows on the news. You know he. He expected trump to be killed at that point now. Pence is not a stupid guy. He has to see that and he has to know that this guy just tried to have him killed but he can still face to face with them. Sit there and talk them and not do the twenty fifth on them. is mind. Do you think he's stupid. Do you think he just is in denial or just trying to see things to rose colored glasses. What do you think that is no. I don't think he's stupid all And i've interviewed a few people already since last week about this I think that this is You know he's playing pool. You said end game. I think he's playing his political future outright in front of our eyes For twenty twenty four. I think he's this last. Four years has been as many vice presidents do. They tried to go for For the next term now obviously everything is toxic right now and he couldn't run while obviously the president was running for for a second term but he's clearly thinking ahead And he's he's made the bet he's put down the cards and the chips. Put them all in that not doing the twenty fifth amendment invoking the twentieth amendment will be enough with the trump supporters and anyone else but especially them that will keep him a viable for for twenty for twenty twenty four. I you know. I wonder if because of what happened At the capital that it would actually backfire and that he would actually make it worse for himself by not doing the twenty fifth amendment. And i i don't know i think time will tell on that. Yeah you know it. It occurred to me when you were saying who petitioned the themselves. Twenty twenty four crews and holly. I don't think those guys have a chance. I think if anybody depends. But i think the reason Pence now has a difficult time with that is because trump turned those people against them and they were chanting hang pants. You know you don't go from hang somebody to voting for them ways later. That's that's a tough one to get over. So i think in in the final analysis of a thing Trump pence took the gig thinking he was going to be the logical successor trump and in the very last moment trump took that away from them all because we are not going to give me what i want I'm going to take away your your hope for the future of holding the presidency. And i think that that's the only reason pence has been loyal as he has for. The last four years is with that prize in mind of someday that office would be his and at some point trump. Just ask fight. Maybe i don't know what it was but said you know what i'm gonna turn them against you so now you don't have a chance in the future right you know but there's other there's something else be twenty fifth amendment aside Given what we just went through with the president You know nobody impeach twice in history. Forget you know. We don't know what's going to be with a conviction but no-one impeach twice He lost the popular vote twice. Obviously lost electoral vote Once at and everything from top to bottom. I mean before the pandemic they were twenty reasons not to reelect them and then everybody said well. It's all about the pandemic and then obviously what we just saw now So they may want to just completely separate themselves. Not just from trump Whether he's banned again you know banned for life from from running Or anyone associated so you know you get that sense of well. There's the trumpers trump begins and all of that but then there's the will wait a minute we don't want to go through this ever again And i i also think that the trump supporters As as as a let's go with the word passionate. That's the that's the nicest i can say. I think as time goes by i mean four years is a long time. I know the cycle starts in about ten minutes for for the presidency. But but i think that as time goes by by a year by two years out that is going to dwindle. I mean it's already dwindled down. It's much much much. Not seventy four million. It's not fifty million so i. I don't think you're going to see that amount of people that are going to be A as you know. I i i. Here's what i. I think pence despite his loyalty i think you know there's a lot of people that would say that guilty by association Will not will not make him a candidate And i think that a lot of trump supporters will Will disappear over the next couple of years I think it's going to be hard until then in the next weeks and months. But i think it's going to drop off So i i think that will make it more challenging for pence more We'll see i guess. I in the meantime and i know you have an appointment to get going to let you go. But in the meantime. I not sleeping. I'm wondering Are you going to be able to make it until next wednesday. I know i mean it. It's really you know one thing. I could say this. I'm not looking at my twitter feed every morning and seeing all right. What did he write. What is he saying. What is he retweeting. So there there is. There is a comfort in that. And i'm being serious. Because it's i would look at it. You know either. When i was doing news radio station website stuff and even podcasts. And you know in constantly re tweeting things in you know in a new sense But but now it know but it's you know it's constantly there and you know it's the same thing with seeing it on tv after awhile you just have to turn around and say i can't look at this anymore So the fact that he's off twitter Is you know we. I think it's helpful for our family psyche. I think that that's an important point to to To help with the the unity. I think that that actually helps biden. I think just the fact that trump is already off the stage. Yeah it's it's definitely a lot Calmer on twitter with without him there. I think the world will be accomplished without him. Hopefully the moment he's gone we can start to at least try to mend some fences in some way and become somewhat unified. I know that's a pipe dream in the larger sense but baby steps here folks baby. Step jerry i thank you for for your time and insight today You can find jerry on the link is in the description for For his podcast. Not and now the news. It's on anchor. You can just go to anchor. Fm and putting jerry. Jerry hyphen barmash and You'll you'll find it right there or just google or look for it any way you find podcast. It's called here now. The news with jerry barmash So we'll send people and i'll continue to listen and continue to do a great job. You're getting some great guessing some people at that Make you sit up and listen. People have insight so good for you. And i wish continuing i appreciate it. Thanks for having me on. Actually come back for now. This episode is brought to you by put me in the story put me in. The story creates personalized books for kids by taking bestselling children's picture books and well up characters and allowing you to create personalized books. That make your child the star of the story alongside their favorite characters. Save twenty five percent store wide when you click the link on mine dog. Tv dot com and use the code. Save twenty five. Where else sponsored by the lovely lovely asia online stop for modern and affordable women's clothing never before has dressing yourself been so easy lovelies carefully. Curated selection of apparel accessories outerwear always on and always available at the best prices. Lovely is dedicated to delivering high quality clothing to women. That will make them look and feel their best. They believe every woman has the right to dress well and shouldn't have to spend a lot to love how she looks. They make it easy to wear outfits you love every day giving you the confidence to take on the world. Lovely dot com. Some fashion trends are now forty. Percents off dotting at five ninety nine. Get an extra eighteen percent off when you click the link on mine dog. Tb dot com and use the code. J. t. eighteen. We're also sponsored by vapor. Dna founded in two thousand thirteen vapor. Dna is the premium online. Vape store offering an industry leading selection of electronic cigarettes e e liquids and accessory. they're friendly and knowledgeable. Customer service team is always ready to provide the best customer service experience to ensure. You find what you're looking for. They guarantee their products to be one hundred percent genuine and at the lowest possible price. They're so confident. In this election and customer service. They offer their customers. Eight forty five day refund. Take twenty percent when you click the link on mine dog. Pv dot com and use code orion q. Jerry barmash folks Here now the news Check out his podcast I i'd like to know what you think about all the stuff of course You know different opinions from different people but It's really hard to imagine that in my in my view again. I'm old enough to remember the nineties. When the militia groups were doubling down every year and and growing in their hatred and growing in their radicalism and domestic. Terrorism was flourishing. And i compare this a lot to that time and i think unfortunately my takeaway is I think we're going to look back two or three years. From now and think january six twenty twenty one was small potatoes compared to the attacks. They're planning the tax are a wanting to to do and some of the bigger things member. Oklahoma city was far bigger than waco They bombed federal building children died. Lots of children died So it gets bigger it gets bigger and unfortunately that's my take on it. S my belief. Love to know what you think. Hope you enjoyed this program. I hope we come back. Ob subscribed youtube channel subscribe. They're gonna mind doug. Tv dot com and get on my mailing list. You know we're gonna have great guests on and questions and comments for me. Always influent mind. Tv dot com info at my dog. Tv dot com tonight at eight pm We have another addition of meet. The author was robert p tone. Who's local guys from malloy college. Who's written a bunch of scifi in creepy horror type Writing books Short stories and stuff like that. So that will be eddie here tonight. Please join me until then i met. Napa are great recipe day being them. Got tension we into. Don't you big back. Why factory wear how importers be joe. J. o. then leaving am Back and out there not only.
NPR News: 12-03-2020 2PM ET
"Live from npr news. I'm lakshmi saying the nation's top infectious disease expert is expected to meet with members of president. Elect joe biden's transition team this hour. Npr's windsor johnston reports. The meeting comes a day after the. Us recorded more than twenty eight hundred deaths from the corona virus the highest single-day total since the pandemic began. dr anthony. Fauci is warning that the us could see as surge upon a surge of corona virus cases after thanksgiving and heading into the christmas holiday. Speaking on msnbc felt she said the nation is in a public health crisis right now. This is real. This is not fake. This is not hoax literally every day. Another record is broken. You have two hundred thousand cases a day you have between two and three thousand deaths and we're well over one hundred thousand hospitalization. Dr fauci has been meeting with members of the biden transition team to discuss the pandemic including the distribution of vaccines. Once they become available the federal government expects to start the initial rollout by the end of this month. Windsor johnston npr news. President trump says he is disappointed. Attorney general william bar has not looked harder for evidence of electoral fraud as npr's frank or donas reports. The president is insane just yet whether he has lost confidence in the attorney. General trump was speaking at a ceremony presenting legendary football coach. Lou holtz the medal of freedom answering a few questions after the president continued to allege without evidence that the election was rigged in the president elect. Joe biden's favor. President trump criticized the attorney. General's office for not trying hard enough. But they haven't looked very hard. Which is a disappointment to be honest with you because it's massive fraud earlier this week bar in remarks that directly contradicted trump's baseless claims told the associated press that the justice department found no evidence of widespread fraud in this year's election asked whether he still has confidence in the attorney. General trump said. Ask him again in a few weeks. Franco or donas. Npr news an investigation is underway into the cause of a powerful explosion at a wastewater treatment plant near bristol. England three employees and a contractor were killed. A fifth person suffered injuries. That are not believed to be life-threatening. Us house has passed a bill that may lead to the delisting of chinese companies from us stock exchanges. Npr's john ru which has details. The holding foreign companies accountable act would require listed foreign companies to comply with us accounting standards and submit audit information to american regulators. Companies would also have to disclose ties to foreign governments. Failure to comply for three years in a row could lead to delisting from us stock exchanges. The bill passed unanimously reflecting. Bipartisan support in washington. For tougher policies on china the senate had passed a companion bill in. may you're listening to npr news. Amnesty international says the russian government has unleashed a new aggressive campaign that will make it impossible for independent human rights groups to work in russia. Npr's lucian kim reports from moscow president vladimir putin has accused the west of trying to undermine russia by using non governmental organizations in a statement. Amnesty international says new legislation under consideration by lawmakers will allow the russian government to take complete control over organizations supporting russian civil rights. Amnesty criticized russian authorities for expelling american citizen. Vanessa cogan who leads an organization that helps russian seek justice at the european court of human rights. Amnesty also condemned continuing pressure on the russian human rights group memorial which soviet dissident andrey sakharov helped found shortly before memorial held a press conference today. On how the government is stifling. Ngos prosecutors paid a visit to its. Moscow lucian kim. Npr news moscow new data today on jobs and housing. The american workforce is still suffering deep. Job cuts fewer people out first time unemployment claims last week compared to the week before but at seven hundred. Twelve thousand they remain at a historically high level buyers in the market for new home. Now have the incentive of the lowest term mortgage rates yet this year the finance giant freddie mac says the average rate on the thirty year fixed rate loan slid to two point seven one percent. This week the fifteen year loan dropped two point two six percent catches the housing inventory. Still tight this is npr.
NPR News: 12-04-2020 12AM ET
"Live from npr news on trial snyder. After a stalemate for a month momentum seems to be building on capitol hill for another corona virus. Relief bill more rank and file. Lawmakers are getting behind the bill in south carolina. Republican senator lindsey graham atop trump ally says he thinks president trump will support the larger package. That's taking shape in the senate as long as a policy. Details are right. Here's what i believe that. There's a bipartisan package. For nine hundred and eighty and that will really help people gotta have the right policy and if the president came out for it you'd have a large number republicans and democrats speaking on cnn. Tonight president-elect biden said the next coronavirus deal needs to focus on. What's immediately needed but that he will have to ask for more once he takes office. President trump says he's disappointed attorney. General bill barr has not looked harder for evidence of electoral fraud as npr's franco donas. Reports trump was speaking at a ceremony presenting legendary football coach. Lou holtz the medal of freedom answering a few questions after the president continued to allege without evidence that the election was rigged and the president elect. Joe biden's favor. President trump criticized the attorney. General's office for not trying hard enough. But they haven't looked very hard. Which is a disappointment to be honest with you because it's massive fraud earlier this week bar in remarks that directly contradicted trump's baseless claims told the associated press that the justice department found no evidence of widespread fraud in this year's election asked whether he still has confidence in the attorney. General trump said. Ask him again in a few weeks. Franco or donas. Npr news wisconsin state. Supreme court has dealt president trump. another legal setback. The court wednesday voted four to three to declined to hear his lawsuit names to throw hundreds of thousands of absentee ballots. Court said the case must first be heard by lower courts ahead of the colorado. Gop wants his members to trust the state's election system colorado public radio. Kirkland reports colorado congressman. Ken buck said it's important to provide facts and evidence to combat misinformation and conspiracy theories about colorado's voting systems. He noted that people who don't trust that elections are fair and accurate are less likely to vote. The last thing that i think we want as a country is to have people who are turned off. I our form of government because then they don't obey the laws nearly seven hundred. Republicans listened to a call with buck and three. Gop elections officials. The effort comes as president. Trump continues to push unfounded claims of widespread election fraud nationally for npr news. I'm ben to brooklyn in denver and you're listening to npr news. Southwest airlines is moving closer to the first furloughs and the company's history. The airline today warranted nearly seven thousand employees that they could be furlough because of the slump in demand for air travel because of the corona virus crisis south west seeking concessions from labor unions to help the company cope but it says unless cost-saving agreements are reached sees more federal aid. The furloughs could begin this spring. Ottawa has outlined. Its plan to administer the first of the copa nineteen vaccines across the country. Dan carpenter reports. The government will be launching dry runs of the rollout next week. The to vaccines that. Will i become available in canada from the drug. Companies pfizer and moderna both are still awaiting final approval for vaccination us from health canada. That's expected by mid month major. General danny fata who is overseeing the logistics of the vaccine operation says there will be a dry run in every province to better understand the process of handling the unique needs of an ultra low temperature vaccine at minus seventy degrees celsius. Pfizer will deliver the vaccine directly to certain centers in each province. Maderno will use the government's delivery plan. The initial supply is expected to be enough to vaccinate 3-million people during the first three months of twenty twenty one for npr news. I'm dan carpenter in toronto. Financial markets in asia following wall street lower after the drug maker pfizer cut the number of doses of krona virus. Vaccine might ship this year. The company says testing and setting up a supply chain took longer than expected. The benchmarks in shanghai. Tokyo and hong kong have declined at friday trading. I'm trial snyder. npr news.
Trumps Disinformation Campaign Threatens to Undermine the Government
"Presented by the salvation army in a year with fewer red. Kettles helped rescue christmas for the most vulnerable to give ask your smart speaker to make a donation to the salvation army or donate at salvation army. Usa dot org trump's disinformation campaign threatens to undermine the government by philip bobbitt baba is professor of law at columbia university and lecturer at the university of texas. The continuity of government problem is an artifact of the nuclear age. What happens to the national command authority vested in the president and what happens to clear deterrence. If a surprise attack decapitates the us leadership the fear of first strike targeting nuclear weapons against the president and others at the highest levels of the us. Government led to many simulations exercises. None of them very reassuring. This concern also spawned a number of emergency powers granted to the president. Some highly classified that were developed to cope with the absolute necessity of having someone recognized as president and commander-in-chief. At all times the problem resurfaced. After the september eleventh attacks when it became known that the fourth plane seized by al qaeda was headed to the capital and would have struck during morning business in the house with many members in attendance or on the capitol grounds. The result could have rendered congress helpless until new elections replaced enough house members killed or disabled so that a quorum could be assembled until then martial law would have had to supersede the legislative process following nine eleven commission on the continuity of government was created of which i was a member. This commission also recognized the threat posed by a cyberattack crippling our information networks this is essentially a critical infrastructure problem of some complexity and it will take time for us to develop appropriate doctrines to ensure the continuity of government if internet communications are entered ided or their content is deceptively compromised. And the next few weeks it may be that an unusual continuity of government crisis will arise that i for one never dreamed of the novelty of the problem arises from the possibility that this information would corrupt the accurate public perception of and that the source of this disinformation might be the president thus at potential laps in the continuity of the national command authority would arise from acts of the president himself. And those around him. I what do we do if the presidential office including the transition to a new administration is disabled by a campaign of disinformation sowing widespread doubt as to who rightfully holds the national command authority a number of developments some carefully orchestrated such as the attempts to prevent the certification of electors and theatrical. Press conferences to showcase escalating charges of criminal conspiracies could result in the constitutional drop dead date of january twentieth leaving the country deeply divided as to the rightful occupant of the white house. We are already witnessing legal. And in some cases extra-legal attempts to halt the counting of mail in ballots prevent the certification of electoral and even efforts by the president to persuade republican legislatures and governors to take steps to discredit or override. The popular vote in their states. It seems likely that we will face a period of political and legal controversy that has already begun and could continue until and even after january twenty eighth the president's stated unwillingness to commit to abide by the results of the election and the attorney general's claims of electoral fraud suggests that it is not unrealistic to be concerned that the electoral result on november third may not be acknowledged by january twentieth as of this writing more than fifty percent of republican. Voters believed. That mail in ballots resulted in extensive voter fraud and that widespread ballot tampering occurred and seventy percent. Do not believe the presidential election was free and fair. Despite ample evidence to the contrary it's not the typical continuity of government problem in which everyone is suddenly killed but rather a slow motion accelerating crisis that caused many to be uncertain as to whom to salute the ensuing chaos including claims of a coup could readily dissolve into violence. Whether or not that happens the prospect of military or other personnel. Who have been persuaded that the identity of the legal occupant of the presidency is endowed. Might well refuse to obey commands on the grounds that they are unlawful orders. Second there is this unprecedented element the potential use by the president of certain emergency powers based on his professed belief that the election was irredeemably flawed. Unlike many modern constitutions the american constitution does not have a specific emergency provision stating win. An emergency may be declared and what the legal consequences are doing so to the extent that emergencies are contemplated powers are given congress for example to suspend the writ of habeas corpus and to provide for the calling forth the militia post watergate concern about the accumulation of highly classified. Emergency documents led congress to adopt the national emergencies. Act of nineteen seventy six while that statute requires that a state of emergency expire after a year unless the president renews it. There are today. Some thirty states of emergency in effect many declared in the aftermath of natural disasters most have been repeatedly renewed. The president has access to emergency powers contained in more than one hundred twenty three statutory provisions. And while these trigger presidential powers their exercise is by no means limited to the triggering event that is powers may be invoked by the precedent that may be used in ways that have no clear relationship to the triggering emergency for example in march. The president declared that the covid nineteen epidemic constituted a national emergency in november. It was reported that the president was considering a us strikes against iranian nuclear stockpiles. Were this in fact executed. The president might declare that the threat of war existed in either case. Emergency powers might be invoked in an attempt to halt temporarily the certification of presidential electors for the duration of the emergency. of course. these are highly unlikely scenarios. My point is we should understand and characterize the problem of disinformation as a powerful threat to the continuity of government when it is wielded by a sitting president frightened by the prospect of losing office into taking drastic steps that compromise that public's assistance for that office understanding the problem in this way we'll give confidence and resolution to civil servants military and diplomatic personnel as well as for the risks raised. By the president's campaign of disinformation it might even encourage elected officials on the sidelines. Now to step forward and say enough. The period from now until december fourteenth is the period that most people are focusing on and rightly so december eight. Th is the deadline for resolving election disputes and completing any state recounts and contests and december fourteenth is the day that electors meet in each state to vote and execute their ballots but the subsequent period from the fourteenth to january twentieth. Maybe even more fraught and the worst outcome would be confusion after the twentieth. The nine eleven commission memorably concluded that a failure of imagination calls the intelligence community to miss the indications of a possible terrorist attack. We should be on our guard against such a similar failure today.
Is Donald Trump going to jail?
"This is an abc podcast. So we haven't heard much from donald trump lately. No i mean dmed out used to be. The silence has being incredible. Yeah but he did finally break it this week in a statement and he seemed to be saying quite clearly. I'll be back if i may our historic patriotic and beautiful movement to make america. Great again has only just begun in the months ahead. I have much to share with you. And i look forward to continuing our incredible journey together to achieve american greatness but all about people there has never anything like it. You didn't do the voice. I'm allowed to voice. I'm angela. David's violate add undesired. Today even though he's now being acquitted at his impeachment trial donald trump is not out of the woods. So what are the new legal challenges facing the former president and do any of them even matter if he's determined to run again anyway the as our fifty seven. The nays are forty three. The senator judges responded donald. John trump former president united states is not guilty as charged the article v fifty seven votes for guilty forty three for not guilty. It takes sixty seven votes to take two thirds of the senate former president donald. John trump is acquitted in the second impeachment trial as he was acquitted one year ago. One significant difference from last year last year. Mitt romney became the first sitting senator from the president's own party to vote for conviction and impeachment. Trial today seven seven. Republican senators have voted for conviction in this trial. I'll just get you to introduce yourself if you count your your name and tato barbara mcquade. I'm a law. Professor at the university of michigan law school and a former federal prosecutor so we saw over the weekend at the senate voted fifty seven to forty three to convict. Donald trump on the single impeachment charges that he incited the deadly riot at the capitol building which is ten votes short of the sixty seven parts. That you need for a conviction so is that is this. The end of congress investigation into what donald trump dido didn't do in the lead up to the january sixth interaction. Well it seems that this is the end of the impeachment inquiry It's a day a nancy. Pelosi is the speaker of the house called for an investigation into the capital insurrection and edition the attorney general of the district of columbia has said that he is investigating the incitement of trump. The justice department could look into it as well as a criminal matter whether they will but it seems likely that at least the district of columbia will look into his role. Okay so where could that lead. Well there are potential crimes on the books. In inciting an insurrection is a crime. Seditious conspiracy is a crime punishable by up to twenty years in prison. The tricky part of that would be used to link up president. Trump's intent to what happened at the capitol have show that he intended for that attack to occur when he spoke those words. It was likely that that attack would occur. Walk down and i'll be there with you. We're gonna walk down to walk down anyone you want but i think right here. We're going to walk down to the capital and we're going to cheer on our brave senators and congressmen and women and we'll probably not gonna be cheering so much for some of them. That would be necessary for him to defeat any first amendment free speech defense that he might have. It's possible that evidence could demonstrate that but based on what we know he said enough things that may be able to give just enough wiggle room for defense like said things like make sure your peaceful and then he tweeted in the middle of it. that To respect our police officers and so there may be just enough to prevent him from criminal charges but the facts will batter and so whatever they determined from those investigations that will likely decisions about whether charges were filed. And we've heard little. Haven't waived from some of the some members of the mob who are facing criminal charges themselves that they felt that they were directed by donald trump by his tweets by his statements by speeches that he gave me not feel a sense of shame or guilt for my heart from what i was doing. I thought i was following my president. I thought i was following what we were called to do their. He asked us to fly there. He asked us to be there so i was doing what he asked us to do. Is that potential evidence. In a case along the lines that you're describing well. What matters is the intent of the speakers or president trump himself so people misunderstood and saw They were being directed by president trump. That would not. But i do think he goes to that second element that i mentioned which is part of the free speech defense that the prosecution would have to show not only that intended to have that attack occur but that it was likely to would occur and i think the evidence that it did occur and that many of these people thought that they were receiving orders from the president would go to that second tom so just to recap any successful prosecution of donald trump for inciting an insurrection would need to things to be proved firstly that donald trump's claims about electoral fraud particularly the ones he made in his speech in washington on january the seeks caused the mob stormed the capitol building and secondly that what the former president said was not protected by speech and if donald trump were convicted as barbour says prison is a real possibility. Yeah but that's not the only front where he could be in trouble. Another one involves an already quite famous hours long. Phone call much. Hello bread and ryan and everybody. We appreciate the time and the call So we've spent a lot of time on this and if we could just go over some of the numbers. I think it's pretty clear that we won. We won very substantially georgia. We all know that. Between the end of voting and the inauguration donald trump spend a lot of time claiming that there was this extraordinary coordinated fraud with Despite attempts to find it no one else could find evidence off in georgia. There was a particular phone call that donald trump participated in. Can you explain what this call was. And whether there are some legal issues for the former president bashar yes in fact Both the A Secretary of state in georgia and a county prosecutor has said that they are investigating this call and other circumstances around president trump. Telephone the secretary. Who's the election official. The person in charge of elections in the state of georgia. And there's about an hour long recording of a firm called between president trump and the secretary of state's in which president trump talks about his belief. That fraud was committed in the georgia election anywhere from two hundred and fifty to three hundred thousand ballots. Were dropped mysteriously into the roles. You had out of state motors. They voted in georgia but they were from out of state. And they were absentee ballots. Center vacant addresses. What look at me. Suitcases drugs stopped with both to eighteen. Thousand ballots all provided. They were starting like don't ever seen him before. The secretary of state repeatedly insists back to the president that that's just not the case. There is evidence of that. We're doing henry. Tally retali- all the ballot. Compared to what machine said it came up with virtually famous president. Trump just need to find the eleven thousand votes. Look all i wanna do is this. I just wanna find eleven thousand seven hundred eighty which is one more that we have because we wanted to take and he goes on. There is a crime of solicitation to commit election fraud. And i believe that is the climate there. Estimating there could very well be that president. Trump genuinely believes that there was a a great. You'll fraud and that. If they would investigate they would find that he had one in the there. Were eleven thousand more votes that had been cast for president trump. that would be one possibility. The other possibility is he knew very well that there was no fraud and he was just asking the secretary of state to find him. Eleven thousand votes. That didn't exist if that was the case he may have been asking the secretary of state to engage in voter fraud which is a crime and that doesn't quite difficult to prove because it's essentially what was going on inside donald trump's hit yes one of the hardest things. The prosecutor has to prove his intent and every crime has an intent. Sometimes it's very easy to prove. Someone says i'm going to shoot you dead and pulls points a gun at someone pulls the trigger. You can assume for most fats that they intended to kill somebody when you have this kind of thing and it's People often say this is how the mob talks to each other. They say things like Is beautiful Business you have here. It'd be shane's anything can happen late. They haven't exactly threaten you but everybody knows what they're talking about It's the same kind of thing with president. Trump is he simply making an inquiry or was he making threat. And that's why. I think other conversations other communications will matter here. This call alone. I think is some evidence but probably not enough basis criminal charges. Now there are a number of well we know there's a criminal investigation right in new york into the trump organization. This is donald trump's company there some tax fraud allegations insurance fraud issues is how how big sprawling is investigation and what are the biggest risks. Donald trump there. Well we don't know all of it but some of the things that have come out in the press because there has been a battle over some subpoenas during the time that donald trump was president. We know that the manhattan district attorney has been looking at some business practices relating to Real estate matters relating to was disclosed in one of the briefs fraud. And i think much of this arises from statements. That michael cohen made his former lawyer. i about payments that were made to this porn star stormy daniels to avoid adverse publicity about president trump just before the twenty sixteen election today for the first time. President trump acknowledging reimbursed his personal lawyer michael cohen for the one hundred thirty thousand dollar. Pay off to adult film star stormy daniels. some payoffs were made through michael cohen to conceal those payments And there's potentially some business fraud. Those payments was this payment made basically to cover this up in furtherance of donald trump's presidential election because if it was campaign finance law experts. Tell me it could then be construed as a campaign contribution and it would have been an illegal campaign contribution. Michael cohen made it. Because you can't give as you know one hundred thirty thousand dollars in personal money into a campaign but it is testimony who fell. Congress microphone also testified that president trump would frequently puff up his his holdings when he needed needed to qualify for a loan such as attempting to buy the buffalo bills for team and he would under state the value of his assets and his earnings when it was time to pays taxes. Everybody's job at the trump organization is to protect mr trump. every day. most of us knew coming in and we were going to lie for him onto something and so it is believed that they were looking into some of those matters as well and just recently there was reporting that the investigation was expanded to some of his realistic olding. The business office buildings that you all to new york on there is also reporting that the new york attorney general has been investigating his treatment of tax matters. His business loss and the new york times did a big story about his claimed business losses that enabled him not to pay taxes because of almost a billion dollars in claimed Tax losses. Your katrina general is looking into whether those valuations were honest during the twenty six thousand election campaign. You know there were a number of allegations of sexual assault levied against trump. I think to date more than two. Dozen women have accused the former president of sexual alright and some of those allegations have been withdrawn And they've all been denied now. There are as far as i can see to women who are suing donald trump for defamation over his denials of their allegations What is the risk here. Well this would be a civil case again that prison time but potentially civil damages and asking for a retraction. There are two women as you say who have filed very similar lawsuits. They alleged that he sexually assaulted them. Some years ago He publicly denied them instead. They're lying and they've sued him for defamation for making what they allege are false statements. I think now that he's out of office. Both of those cases will We will pick up the pace and we'll proceed and i think in each of them He faces potentially very serious monetary damages. Okay so that is a very long list with risks to donald trump flowing from. Let's say allegations of rape sexual assault tax fraud. Hush money payments and inciting a rebellion against the united states and. That's not even all of it. Barbara says there are also allegations about colluding with the russians in the two thousand sixteen election campaign and trying to pressure the ukrainian government to investigate. Joe biden's son both of which could also result in criminal charges. Yes so. I guess the next question looking at that list is which one is the biggest risk it strikes me as the most payroll that presents itself is the investigation by the manhattan district attorney over his business practices because the potential penalties there are not just monetary but potentially prison and so I i would imagine that. Must concern him. He worked very very hard to delay the production of documents from his businesses in response to the request. Their i. I don't think people were class hard to prevent sharing information. If they aren't concerned about what the documents might show so. I think that is the one that is most likely to cause him problems. Not we started this conversation by talking about the the senate trial We saw forty-three republicans stand by donald trump. Who said if he is convicted of a crime goes to prison. Do you think it will become more difficult for some of those people to continue to to stand by donald trump to continue to support him. Think it probably depends. I think for some of them. They won't even with regard to the impeachment. There are some like mitch. Mcconnell for example who was the senate republican leader Said that he thought that donald trump was responsible for the violence at the capital. But he believed that a president cannot be tried on an impeachment after he leaves office. And i'm sure there are others are camp Because it gives them an out that they're not either condoning condemning donald trump for his behavior and so for those people. It may be too much. They may try to distance themselves noon. I think for others. Seen president trump convicted of a crime just makes him more of a martyr. A big part of donald. Trump's appeal is Grievances is there any restriction on a person convicted of serious crime from seeking office. There's there's no restriction there it is correct that there is no federal prohibition on a candidate running for president after a felony conviction but some states may have some restrictions on in one of them is Georgia that a person who's been convicted of a crime of moral turpitude may not mine for office same in texas. I presumably if you'll actually in prison. You can't be on the ballot hamper your your campaign talk about might make the rallies bit tricky. Exactly that's it for the signal today but before we go. We wanted to quickly mention another story. That has really blind this week. Former liberal stafa brittany higgins has come forward with allegations that she was raped by colleague in a camera. Parliamentary office in two thousand nine hundred. It's the latest in a series of awful stories about the why women in australia's political institutions attracted and. We don't really hard about how best to tackle this one and ultimately we felt like we had covered the of story so many times before that it would be useful to share an episode back from twenty eighteen to demonstrate the lack of progress on this whole issue of women's safety back then we spoke to senior press gallery journalist. Karen middleton about her own experiences of abusive politicians and the roots of parliament's toxic culture politician. In invite me to disappear for the afternoon. If i wanted to the once had another show me the map of his electorate. Sounds like a terrible cliche was when i was very young simply the map of his electric. And then ask me what i thought of adultery and i said wolfe. You'll married stupid phone. So he said yes. Dialing that's why they call it adultery So you know there was. That's what i'm seeing an. If you back out of a situation like that what repercussions worry about. Well i just would never occurred to me to not back out of. That's i got out there as quick as i could and i was at a a potty someone's office and i've been invited to with some with two mile odor colleagues and friends and they shot them a glance when i got out of the room and they could see what was going on in kind either and and took me away from him but there were occasions way people would sort of rubbing shoulders. You know that. Come into the office and one politician who was famous is standing behind you until putting his hands on your shoulders and giving you a unsolicited shoulder. Rob or Another one. I was very young looking in the old house. Now offices size small that i to read the newspaper threats to push whatever i can put my feet up on. The distance spread the broadsheet newspaper out. An much hair was sort of half behind the door. You couldn't really get the door open fully when when we were all out. A politician came in and i was caught new there then And wearing stockings. it was the icees. That's my excuse judgment. He ran his hand up my stockings. And so no sign of planning to stall into my bureau. Chief mile and a very fiery are shman by the name of coal malign came flying around the following cabinet and yelled at screamed at him you know. Don't you dead and any stopped in backed out now. Of course these women's stories very different from each other but if you do want to learn more about the backdrop to these latest allegations we have linked to that episode in today's journalists. And we will be back here with a new episode tomorrow. Catch you then by. You've been listening to an abc. Podcast discover more gray abc. Podcasts live radio and exclusives on the abc listen app.
December 7th: Election Fraud HR 1
"Wake up it's time for mornings with jalen thirteen ten. Kfi all right. If there was one single solitary thing that senator. Kelly lafler really really really wanted you to know. During last night's verse debates ahead of Her runoff election with mr warnock is that raphael warnock is a radical liberal. She couldn't say that enough he's a radical liberal radical liberal. I was trying to count the number of times throughout this debate and believe it or not the moderator. Who was this guy. Let's see if i can find his name for you. The moderator of this debate out of georgia. Let's see oh here. We go was fox. Five atlanta anchor. Russ spencer well. She managed to keep this debate. Like between the lines. It didn't go off the rails didn't spiral into this yelling and come on man this yelling liar. This yelling screaming match. Although let's just say the things did get a little bit terse so did you watch that debate between kelly leffler and raphael warnock that senate runoff debate. And what we're your takeaways. Mine was raphael. warnock is a radical liberal. Yes i think. I understand what you're putting down there senator laughlin. I think i've got your point six. Oh eight out thirteen ten. Kfi may thirteen ten k. f. k. a. dot com northern colorado's voice mornings with gail the auto collision specialists studios. Yep so they. They faced off last night. It was hosted by the atlanta. Press club likely. The only single solitary time that the two candidates will be on the same stage before the election. I don't know for my money. Senator law flir. She seemed kind of robotic in her responses. She seemed very very rehearsed and again not being critical. It's just takeaways. It's just you know when you watch the debate. You're listening to the words you're watching the body language But you're also picking up on well the energy level and it just didn't really seem to be there at least with ms laughlin. It was more of okay. I got this debate to nine check. Yeah he's a radical liberal. Check okay can. I go home now. That's what it felt like. But yeah but this is potentially the last time that voters will be able to compare those two candidates outside of a scripted campaign rally. The seem scripted. I will say that social media posts or campaign ads. And why why. Why does it matter. Well it's kind of interesting because the wall street journal pines this as those campaign related lawsuits continued. Fly over the use of for example dominion software and mysterious suitcases after all of the poll-watchers and the ballot-counters with the exception of four are sent home and lo and behold look is a skirted table. And what comes out from under that skirted table. Why unnumbered of suitcases. You tell me what exactly the contents of those suitcases. Were pretty funny answers to that question. To be. honest was talking to my brother yesterday and he goes. Oh no no see. They can do that legally in georgia all they have to have is three or four people remaining in the room and the ballot counting can continue so they knew it was gonna be a long night. So what did they do well. They had their jammies in suitcases. I'm like yeah okay. I figured maybe they were all going to beat feet for a lovely tropical vacation. But why does the georgia runoff matter. Now it's not a rhetorical question. And i think that you know the answer to that because well the most important story in politics really for the next month and again i am not discounting asking questions you remember last week. We had the opportunity to talk with carly corpus weld county clerk and recorder and oster about the shenanigans going on in georgia. She couldn't answer that question because while she she doesn't do elections in georgia. Okay fair enough. But i do ask the question of you all. Don't we have to have as a people in this nation full faith and confidence in our elections. Of course we do and if there are things that are going on that seem well a little untoward or little suspect. Shouldn't have those questions answered. Yes so. I am not discounting of the multitude of lawsuits that have been filed by sydney powell in georgia particularly and by The trump campaign. I believe six states and counting not discounting not but once again a not saying. Show me the money. Show me the evidence because well it's not mine to have. But i think we could all use a little bit more clarity a little bit more information as to whether this is going to stand and whether this will indeed wind up in the hands of the supreme court but i have no problem whatsoever with asking the question as to whether our elections are free and fair and yes. The democrats have often said every vote. Well cabbie out there every legal vote should be counted. Of course it should but show me the money on this one because well. I just haven't seen the red meat when it comes to the number of lawsuits. Now that said. I do want to know about those rolling suitcases at that Polling place in georgia. I don't know that seems a little out of the norm. Didn't it you tell me nine. Seven three five three thirteen. Drop me a text on our thirteen ten k. k. a text line and nine seven four seven eight thirteen one. And you're like wait. What used to be three one nine nine six. Well you are correct in that assessment. Yes and for those of you that have been using our thirteen ten. Kfi text line at three one. Nine nine six. Here's the good news. You are grandfathered and you don't have to make a single solitary change. You can still text us but for those of you that are wanting to dip your toe into the thirteen ten. Kfi text new number nine seven four seven eight thirteen. A one and the same principle applies if you're using that text number for the first time just text. Kfta to nine seven hundred four seven eight thirteen one and then the floodgates are wide open and you can text away with wild abandon but wall street journal has very interesting piece by the editorial board basically pointing out the fact that the most important story in politics for the next month isn't as they say. Well they refer to it as the foregone outcome of the presidential race all right. I'm gonna keep my paddle powder dry on that one. I'm not so sure it is a foregone conclusion and well let's just say i need more input on that in order to derive what i think is a reasonable rational decision but opines the wall street journal. It is the to georgia runoff races. On january fifth that will determine who controls the senate and indeed the direction of us policy for the next two years. Well wall street journal none stopped. They're saying if republicans lose those seats. President trump will be the main reason and the main casualty will be his legacy. I'm sorry i think the main casualty will be the very future of this nation. But tell you what we're going to get into that and so much more in just a few very very busy show had sixteen now thirteen ten. Kfi k. a thirteen ten k of k dot com. You know we could all use a little warmth. A little support these days and north range. Behavioral health is here to help with its colorado covid nineteen support program so if you have been affected by the pandemic in any way reach out for the confidential and free support that will help you navigate these very troubled times called the colorado spirit warm line nine seven three four seven twenty three fifty nine. That's nine seven zero three four seven twenty three fifty nine party northern colorado's for thirteen ten kfi k. The block party wednesdays from four to ten pm ready for some football on monday night. Football is right here on northern colorado's voice thirteen ten. Kfi k jeremiah. Might be a bullfrog. But one thing you know for certain is according to senator kerry kelley lafler. Raphael warnock is a radical liberal. Yes kelly we've got that down. Okay i we can take that to the bank in your estimation anyway. Six twenty three now thirteen ten. Kfi a thirteen ten k. f. k. a. dot com northern colorado's voice mornings with gail the auto collision studios. Yeah she called a raphael warnock Radical liberal numerous times during last. night's debate. Did you watch the debate. And what were your thoughts. Nine seven three five three thirteen ten. Drop me a text on our new and improved text line number. If you're a first-time texter nine seven. Four seven eight thirteen. O-on all you have to do is k. a. The your initial time using that text line and then you can just text away to your heart's content. One thing. i will say about this debate. Is that yeah. There was some evidence. I mean even though the two of them were going after each other. I mean tooth and nail. No doubt about that. No love lost between senator kelly laughter and raphael warnock in last night's georgia's senate runoff debate. But there was a some semblance. Perhaps some hope for the future of civility and decorum and respect and kudos go out to fox. Five atlanta anchor. Russ spencer who managed to keep things early and on schedule Moving between up three rounds of questions and closing statements now. Interestingly enough is not the only senate runoff race in town. No there's another senate runoff race in georgia. This is between. Senator david perdue. He of course. A republican like a senator lafler and his democratic challenger. Jon ossoff now. Perdue this kind of funny. He refused to debate us of this after he participated in two forms before the november third general election. If this before the law flir warnock debate well. He appeared all he was a lonely boy. He appeared at a thirty minute. Forum also hosted by abc. This is the atlanta press club where he was questioned by reporters with an empty podium representing purdue nearby shades of clint eastwood. Yeah you know what. I'm referring to right now as you're well aware this matters. Yes free and fair. Elections also matter. We need to have the confidence in our electoral process. That it is one of integrity one that we can indeed trusts. And i'm keeping an eye on all of those lawsuits to see where they go. Those lawsuits that have been filed in about six states and counting By the trump campaign. But what's really important. Is this run off this election. This runoff election on january fifth. Why because the results of these a to elections the one between senator kelly globular and raphael warnock and the one between senator david purdue and his democrat jon ossoff well they will determine which party controls the senate for the next two years. Here's how it breaks down. Democrats have to sweep the georgia races while republicans only need to win one to secure a majority but wanted to talk a little bit about President trump course. Making the rounds. Who are saying that Well elections words not his. He has a number of words to describe his faith and trust in the electoral process. But he believes that The fix was in and that Elections because he lost the presidential election apparently Pretty much a sham. But we'll president trump. Get the blame it. The gop loses the senate editorial board wall street journal. And we're gonna get into this in greater depth. Because i find this fascinating opines if republicans lose those seats president trump will be the main reason and the main casualty will be his legacy. Our contraire i think the main casualty will be the american way of life as we continue. Continue if the democrats take control of the senate as we continue that steady march toward socialism. Now the two republicans whether they should be the favorites georgia like many states well. It's changing and trump narrowly lost the state. But georgia does still lean for the most part center right now. Incumbent david purdue nearly one the fifty percent he needed to avoid a runoff. you remember. There was that fifty percent threshold that the candidates needed to reach democratic challenger. John couldn't win a house race in the atlantic serb suburbs. Back in two thousand. Seventeen as for the senator. Kelly lafler yes. She was appointed. She is an incumbent and she survived a brutal primary challenge from representative doug collins but the state party well. They've kind of fallen into line behind her her challenger pastor rafael warnock genuine man of the left. I believe that he is a fan of reverend wright. If i'm not mistaken who has been arrested. Not reverend wright but raphael warnock. He's been arrested at social justice protests and Well he believes in the bernie sanders line right down the line. The argument that the country needs gop senate to check president biden and speaker. Nancy pelosi wouldn't should resonate with voters now that Well according to the wall street journal journal now that it's clear says the editorial board that president trump has lost. But here's the problem. President trump keeps stepping on that argument and kind of muddling the gop message with his claims that democrats in georgia and elsewhere stole the election. And right now the polls show tight races. The democrats could indeed win all right. We're gonna continue this in just a few after we get. You all caught up on everything that you need to know. Six thirty now. Thirteen ten f. k. Dan patrick the whole show and colin coward or on northern colorado's voice thirteen ten. Kfi k into the hall show at noon and no code now at four back to mornings with kale and northern colorado's voice thirteen ten k. k. Six thirty eight in the holiday. Christmas spirit on thirteen thirteen ten kfi k. a. dot com northern colorado's voice mornings with gail via the auto collision specialists studios. All right. okay. We get it. Senator la flir again. I know it's like oh my gosh. We're still running over. That dead cat oops no events there but we're reiterating that point the key takeaway at least for me last night and watching that debate between kelly. Lafler and raphael warnock was. Yes we get it. In your estimation in your opinion a senator lav learn. I can't say that. I disagree with all of the fancy footwork that i saw displayed okay. Admittedly by both candidates politicians after all. They're pretty good at well. Providing a non answer and keeping it moving but yes we understand that you truly strongly vehemently repetitively redundantly believe that raphael warnock is a radical liberal. Okay so we use that as our starting point. Now what's interesting is. I took copious notes as i tend to do a little wonky that way throughout that debate last night. But here's a one thing that i think kind of well sums up my obsession with this radical liberal assessment. This took up this entire discussion. Took up a whole lot of time during the debate. So i think it's kind of worth reiterating right so talking about the fact that we have got lawsuits plenty. Okay filed by the trump campaign team in michigan arizona. Nevada georgia pennsylvania. Well the list goes on and on right all right. So that's readily apparent to you. Well this really caught my eye last night because well that was one of the first questions asked of senator lobster as to well. The efficacy of all of the electoral fraud claims that are being made by the trump campaign. Well that puts them. And i'm talking about them in the senate race that puts them on prote- ice because the concern is will. This actually have particularly in georgia. The site january fifth of such an important election that will determine control of the. Us senate might be the last line of defense against radical liberalism as senator lafley was so fond of saying last night right but it's so important but could it be ended by these on going claims of election fraud particularly in georgia. Okay not to put too fine a spin on it. Let's get straight to. The point will actually turn republican voters away from voting in the process because well if as president trump says these elections are nothing but a scam. Then why would it reasonably intelligent person. Even vote rhetorical question. Because i'm sure many of you are second your heads and going. Oh that's crazy. I would show up and vote will. Of course you would but maybe others don't have that same sturdy internal constitution that you do not talking about the constitution by talking about your ability to deal with a whole lot of noise coming in not saying that all of these lawsuits and these allegations and accusations of election. Shenanigans are merely well smoke and mirrors. I'm not saying that whatsoever. But i'm just saying that perhaps instead of looking in the rear view mirror perhaps we can do both at once but it seems to me. The primary emphasis needs needs to be on this election that some argue is in peril as a result of president trump and the ongoing allegations of election. Fraud you know. We talked with ken. Buck about this. Okay congressman ken buck. He readily admitted that yes. Every election has fraud. I mean it's it's part and parcel of the equation. Unfortunately because no system is perfect right yes dead. People vote yes on. We've seen this in the past. You have unregistered. Voters serve no. They've been registered. But let's just say their addresses somewhere in the middle of the chicago river. You remember that right. You're going to have voters that don't live in the state of owning going to have voters casting multiple votes unfortunately it's the downside of freedom but has it gotten to the point and again. I need more evidence to make that decision. I know i have a pretty strong feeling about it as probably do you. But in order to draw. When i feel is a logical rational proof driven decision. Aren't you looking for more evidence as well to which you might say. Aren't the suitcases and georgia at the polling place enough. Well i will say. That's kind of suspect isn't it. So you had senator lachler addressing all of these lawsuits saying the president has the right to pursue every legal recourse to make sure that this was a fair free election in georgia going on to say the buck stops with the secretary of state. He has to run an election that georgians trust referring of course to republican secretary of state. Brad raff raffin burger. Oh by the way whose resignation. She's called for. I appreciate she went on to say The president support of me. And i appreciate the governor's support on me. She said it's vitally important that trust our election process and the president has every right to every legal recourse. And that's what's taking place now. That was in response to a question as to whether she agrees with a trump's claim that he won georgia. I believe that biden. I mean at last check and of course. These numbers are fungible I believe that The joe biden won by twelve thousand six hundred and seventy votes. But i am totally all in for asking questions and finding valid answers so i do support the president. I don't support the president to the extent where it might negatively. Impact voter turnout in this georgia election about you nine seven three five three thirteen an eight seven seven three five three thirteen ten dot me text on thirteen ten. Kfi touchline texters that number nine seven four seven hundred thirteen o one first time using that text lines texts kfi to nine seven hundred four seven eight thirteen. A one of those of you have been texting away for quite some time. Good news is even though we have that new text number. You indeed are grandfathered in all right. So here's what we now go back to this wall street journal editorial piece for your consideration trump and the georgia runoffs. The president will get the blame. If the gop loses the senate subpoena. You can find it online. Just fire up the google earth this morning By the editorial board out of the wall street journal so here's the argument. The country needs a gop senate to check a president biden and speaker. Nancy pelosi what's up with. Joe biden saying that well if he had any moral differences. Did you hear this with the vice. President-elect kamla harris that he would resign his office wait what of course it is. Joe biden. Well you never know what's going to come out of his mouth. But i digress. So country needs gop senate to check president biden and speaker. Nancy pelosi and yeah that should be resonating with voters far and wide. Now that it's clear that president trump and again this is according to the editorial board in the wall street journal now that it's clear. President trump has lost the election. The problem is president. Trump keeps stepping on the argument. Muddling the gop message with his claims that democrats in georgia and elsewhere stole the election and the polls are actually showing very very tight races. That democrats could indeed win all right granted. President trump has tweeted endorsements of the two republicans. But he's also attacking. Gop governor. Brian kemp and secretary of state. Brad rollins burger for not overturning. The results in a state he lost by there. It is twelve thousand. Six hundred seventy votes. Is this affair. Wrap this as the state conducted a hand recount of every single ballot. President trump lost the race by doing worse in the atlanta suburbs and he didn't twenty sixteen and sadly as the also did in many other suburbs agron around the country but to get to the point cut to the chase. The attacks on fellow republicans are causing a split in the party. That could help the democrats. Needless to say democrats are flooding georgia with with money and absentee ballot drives republicans and independents. Who voted for. Mr biden might be willing to vote for the two. Gop senators with the president. No longer on the ballot. But president trump won't let the election go and meanwhile his claims that the vote is rigged for the democrats could cause many of his voters to stay home. I mean the stakes are high. Difference between the senate led by republican mitch. Mcconnell and one led by democrat. Chuck schumer well that recalls mark. Twain's line about the difference between lightning and the lightning bug fifty fifty democratic senate with vice president come la- harris breaking ties. It means a whole bunch of stuff. Rollback of the trump tuck tax cuts comes to mind that's certainty and it also means the democrats could use the congressional review act to most of mr trump's deregulatory actions of last year or even longer. This is what we need to remember. President trump check me. If i'm wrong on this. I mean he's already sounding like he's gonna run again and twenty twenty four and perhaps the stolen election narrative could be an opening bid for campaign donations. But what he needs to remember is that he meets regardless of what his future political aspirations may be he needs this. Gop senate right here right now. Nearly if not more than the country does your thoughts this morning. Nine seven three five three thirteen ten six fifty one. Now thirteen ten. Kfi k no code now weekdays at four northern colorado's voice thirteen ten kfi k. Tastes headlines podcast mornings with gail and more and schedule upcoming sports broadcasts. Find them at thirteen ten. Kfi dot com a question for you this morning. Is it possible for the trump campaign to pursue These well seeming example. I'm gonna leave it right there right now until we get the evidence but to pursue these examples of prod while not jeopardizing election turnout in the upcoming georgia runoff. That determines control power of the us senate on january fifth. You tell me seven three five three thirteen ten and drop me a text on our thirteen ten kfi k. Text line all right. Those of you have been texting Just go ahead and tex away if you're going to dip your toe into the wonderful world of our thirteen ten. Kfi tech signed new number forty nine seven four seven eight thirteen a one and all you have to do is text kfi the first time. Use it so again not to belabor the point but the issue on trump election claims took up the most time at last night's debate between senator lobster and raphael warnock because republicans in georgia needless to say like the rest of the country. Well pretty well caught up in that whirlwind of election fraud claims by the president and his allies now lafler refusing to cross the president but also and this was walking a very fine line trying to ensure that trump voters because of all the time frame claims of fraud trying to ensure that trump voters will indeed show up on january fifth to vote for the gop senate candidates and this is the issue that took a by far. The most time in last night's debate now earlier this month. You had attorneys lynnwood. Sydney powell ratcheting up. Republican fears that trump's rhetoric could damp and turn out in georgia by explicitly urging georgians to sit out the senate runoffs thinking leffler. Yesterday once again was walking that tight rope or answers about fraud. Electoral fraud while also encouraging republicans to turn out to vote saying a culture investigations. Now there's two hundred and fifty hannam investigations open here in georgia but the president was also clear that means need to come out and vote for david. Purdue am i self because of what's at stake in this election year. There's a whole bunch at stake when you agree six fifty seven now. Thirteen ten kfi k. Here mornings with gail weekdays. Six to nine and northern colorado's voice thirteen ten kfi k. Inside the bears. Dan presented by chris. Musa agency allstate. Insurance tuesday nights northern colorado's voice thirteen ten kfi k. Telling pastor at high plains harvest church in all twelve making some waves once again there yesterday. Afternoon watching leland on fox news and lo and behold there is mark why well high plains harvest church and its pastor marker telling seeking an injunction against that Fifty person limit on houses of worship. He weighs in at seven forty. Kfi greeley it's seven o'clock.
Will the Most Important Voting-Rights Bill Since 1965 Die in the Senate?
"Wnyc studios is supported by hemingway on pbs. Monday april fifth at eight seven central. Ken burns and lynn. Novick take an intimate look at the visionary work turbulent life of author ernest hemingway. He turned his adventures into classic stories. That forever changed american literature but behind the public. Bravado lay troubled private life stormy marriage is marked by infidelity struggles with alcohol and his own descent into darkness. Ken burns and lynn. Novick reveal the man behind the myth. In hemingway starts monday april fifth at eight seven. Central only on pbs. I'm dorothy wicked on today's politics. More podcast david remnant talks with new yorker staff writer. Gilani cobb about hr one a bill. Before congress that would expand voting rights nationwide then jeannie suk gerson new yorker contributor discusses the arizona voting rights case currently before the supreme court for millions of people in this country. The election of two thousand twenty was stolen. That's a trumpian. Article of faith and faith is the right term because there is no empirical evidence at all to support such a claim and yet electoral fraud reeked. Votes are central to the republican. Party's message no sooner. Had joe biden won the election. Then republican state legislatures began introducing measures to make voting much more difficult in arizona. One proposed bill. Would require absentee ballots. To be notarized and other bills would prohibit drop boxes for ballotsan pennsylvania. Georgia in virginia and missouri would remove covid nineteen as any reason to vote by mail the list. Well it goes on these measures. There's no doubt are gonna hit black voters and communities of color most directly and stacey. Abrams of georgia. Perhaps the most visible voting rights activists in the country calls this wave of state legislation. Jim crow tie now. Congress has introduced or reintroduced a bill called. Hr one and the intent there is to make voting as easy as possible. Jilani cobb is a staff writer at the new yorker and he's been writing about voting rights for many years gilani. I think it's fair to say that. There is an enormous national battle going on about voting rights on the one hand. You have many states like georgia. That are trying to enact what you and i might call anti voting rights legislation and in congress we have. Hr one which is a huge bill. That would create national automatic voter registration. it would. It would expand early voting. It would promote voting by mail restore voting rights to felons many many things so in terms of size and scope. How does hr one compared to the legislation of the civil rights era the mid sixties sure and you referred to this as a huge and that applies in two ways. it is physically large. It's nearly eight hundred pages long and it is huge in terms of its importance and its significance. And i think that people look at this. As really an update of the crucial legislation that came along with the nineteen sixties But even at the height of its powers the things that hr one does. The voting rights act did not cover and just kind of scanning. What's in those eight hundred pages. It has things like automatic. Voter registration Transparency in political ads there are provisions of to prevent voter. Roll purges And really kind of mechanisms that are meant to shore up people's access to the ballot as well as creating standards for national voting machines says it's kind of an omnibus approach to the issue of voting in the united states. Now mitch mcconnell says this is basically an effort by the democrats to dominate elections from here to kingdom come and he spoken about it as a power grab and it's kind of like a basketball game with. They're saying they the trying to run up the score by shooting and it it really what it does maximize access to the ballot but nonetheless. You know this would likely have a net benefit to democratic voters On the other side of it the legislation that we're seeing making its way through statehouses around the country In many instances but likely have a net detriment of democratic voters. Well let's let's opponent on that you focused in your piece in the new yorker on the state of georgia. What's going on in the state of georgia georgia's really a metaphor for the bigger a movement. That's come out of november twenty twenty And enjoyed there are a bills that a floating around all of which have the intent of making it more difficult a placing more obstacles between voters and the ballot box. And if you wanna to absentee vote you would have to have a proven medical condition. But you also likely have to have your ballot notarized and have a witness and some provisions have a witness who sees. You signed the envelope and the witness will sign to and so makes it much more contractual kind of proceeding There are other concerns that With the legislation in georgia which goto things as abstract and seemingly weird almost neurotic making it illegal for instance to give food or water to people who are online voting. What's that all about. Well of it you could say this is this might be a campaign strategy or you might prevent people from being swayed and the last minute you know if someone comes up with a branded bottle of water or some such but in reality. There is a stark racial disparity between how long people likely to have to wait to vote in georgia And the places where people dealing with really long lines Standing sometimes standing in line for hours to get a chance to cast a ballot overwhelmingly democratic overwhelmingly communities of color in the actual result of this be. This would be one less comfort That those people could anticipate and this kind of legislation that's being pushed in. Georgia is typical of many states. Yeah at thirty. Three states actually The brennan center which has done great work around tracking these things as pointed out that there are a hundred and sixty five Voter restriction bills that are have been introduced in thirty three state legislatures around the country after november twenty twenty. Now let's get into what will pass and what will not. Hr one has to get through congress which is divided now clearly. This is yet another issue where the question of the filibuster comes up. Joe biden when he was campaigning. Said he didn't want to get rid of the filibuster because the filibuster was there to prevent certain abuses and historically now. The shoe was on the other foot. He wants to get rid of the filibuster because he wants to get through all kinds of progressive legislation whether it's about voting rights or about all kinds of new deal like legislation. Who's right both are and the reason. I say. That is not a dodge But instead of the hypothetical and the practical and so the minority rights provisions the constitution and an american democracy were meant to prevent that problem. That alexis de tocqueville mentions the tyranny of the majority or as the old joke about it is that democracy is three fox's in two chickens voting on behalf half for dinner But in fact that would not be democracy with democracy would be that the three fox two chickens say that we won't have anything unless we do we get four votes and that's what the constitution is meant to do. And in theory that's great but in practice of those mechanisms have been weaponized again and again specifically around the issues of civil rights. There's a great thing floating around on social media Which is a from a group of historians who took minority leader mitch. Mcconnell to task about saying that there was no racial aspect of The filibuster and they just listed all the civil rights. Bills that have been filibustered Most famously of course. The nineteen fifty. Seven bill Which strom thurmond filibustered for twenty four hours and seventeen minutes and so in practice. The filibuster has been used in this way again and again and again and we may have finally reached the crossroads but those two things. No longer reconcilable cup. Thanks so much. Thank you staff writer. Jilani cobb now even if democrats in the filibuster and pass. Hr one the bill would certainly be challenged at the level of the supreme court. And the roberts court has been quite skeptical toward federal voting legislation. The court invalidated part of the nineteen sixty five voting rights. Act eight years ago and with the current justices. This is a court. That's much more conservative so to understand where the court sits in this ongoing battle over voting rights. I called a genie sucres. Jeannie writes for the new yorker and she teaches constitutional law at harvard law. School genie the supreme court heard of voting rights case that involved to set laws in the state of arizona. What that about yeah. So in arizona. There was a there is a law that was passed. that's being challenged in the supreme court this term It requires first that an in person Election day voter cast votes only in the assigned precinct. So if you vote in the wrong precinct than your your vote will not be counted And second only certain people namely family or caregivers or mail carriers election officials are people who are qualified to deliver another person's ballot to the polling place so those are the two issues in the law that are at issue in the supreme court. That's the reason. This is an important issue of race. Discrimination is that. Arizona has a large native american population that lives on reservations that have limited access to mail or non traditional mailing addresses so they would disproportionately rely on ballot collection from community and party a members and this case with the challenge to the arizona law went to a federal appeals court and it overturned the arizona last year because of the state's history of race based discrimination against native americans hispanics and black people when asked why the arizona republican national committee would wanna keep the out of precinct ballot disqualification on the books. One of the lawyers defending restrictions said this that politics is a zero sum game and every extra vote they get through. Unlawful interpretation of a particular section in this case section to hurts us meeting the republicans. Is it common for supreme court arguments to be made in such stark partisan terms. It's it's it's rare that happens. Yeah i was quite surprised to hear that. But i think that one of the things that That led to the comment was for the republican party to explain what it stake in the case was why was it in court and what exactly it mattered to the arizona republican party and so that was the explanation that this was why they're suing and why they're why they're in court or why they're defending this this some law. It seems like a standard what used to be called a washington gaffe which is the mistake of telling the truth as a pastor's fudging the question and coming up with some high flown principle. I it does but in this area voting rights. I think that's where we are now. We are no longer engaging info in kind of fig leaves anymore it truly is overtly accepted by everyone Just like in the cases leading up to the twenty twenty presidential election it is extremely overt and assumed and accepted by all sides that if you allow more voting more access to voting and easier voting democrats will have a better chance of winning and republicans will have a chance of winning. Everyone accepts that And so that's how we proceed. But shouldn't it be easier. Let let let let me speak up for the democratic argument. In in in terms of a question shouldn't it be as maximally democratic and easy to vote as possible. Lie certainly think so if you are if you are a qualified voter eligible to vote. You should be able to vote. And it should be extremely easy to do so. And i think that that's why the republicans and conservatives are hanging their hat on fraud. The election fraud claims that we saw heavily highlighted in twenty twenty leading up to the election and afterwards and amplified by trump and that led to january sixth. Those arguments are not only alive and well but they're going to have a next life going on and on for years a few weeks ago we saw exactly those voter fraud arguments. Being made in the supreme court and several supreme court justices specifically talked about voter fraud as an important imperative for governments to make sure that voting fraud is curbed. And so that's being taken very seriously In the legal arguments even as people say that voting fraud is very rare It's not actually as big of a problem as the republicans will make it out to be nevertheless. This is an argument that we're gonna see being made in the the next the next next iterations of these voting rights cases to counter access to voting and given the current make-up of the supreme court given the makeup of so many other words that have been filled with so many points during the trump administration. What do you expect the outcome of. So much of this voting rights activity to be whether it's in the supreme court or how the provision of hr one would fare in the lower courts. Whatever happens with the arizona law. I think we know what's going to happen. It's going to be upheld. The standard that the supreme court articulates in the course of upholding. It is all important because that's standard is about what proves a violation of section two of the voting rights act of nineteen sixty five. What proves that voting practice or procedure discriminates on the basis of race so it looks like a majority of the court is going to vote to uphold the arizona law and the open question is really what are they going to say about how approval voting rights discrimination. Are they going to pair it back. So essentially many many things that have discriminatory impact will not be held will not be deemed too in fact constitute race discrimination. That is the fear and that is the danger that in the process of this case the court will cut back on what is going to be counted. As racist combination in voting going forward tedious occurs. And thanks so much. Thank you jeanie soup. Gerson is a professor at harvard law school. Wnyc studios is supported by hemingway on pbs. Monday april fifth at eight seven central. Ken burns and lynn. Novick take an intimate look at the visionary work and turbulent life of author ernest hemingway. He turned his real life adventures into classic stories. That forever changed american literature. The sun also rises a farewell to arms the old man and the sea and many more but behind the public. Bravado laid troubled private life. Stormy marriage is marked by infidelity struggles with alcohol and his own descent into darkness six years in the making. Pbs's hemingway features rarely seen photographs and archival footage from the author's travels in europe africa cuba and key west brought to life by all star. Cast jeff daniels. Meryl streep keri russell. Patricia clarkson and mary louise parker. Ken burns and lynn. Novick reveal the man behind the myth. In hemingway starts monday april fifth at eight seven. Central only on pbs.
OA440: Rudy's Literal Meltdown
"They don't waste time trying the motions. Don't win call you lady justice you tell me whether sandwiches and then i'll tell you fat dog enough women on for nine fifty will love each other both a women of why that up and no side. Welcome to opening arguments a podcast. That pairs a comedian with a real life lawyer. This podcast is sponsored by the law. Office of the torres for entertainment purposes is not intended as legal advice and does not form an attorney client relationship. Don't take legal advice from a podcast. Hello andrea it's episode. Four forty opening arguments four four music. Joke how's it going. It's opening arguments is episode four forty. I'm thomas that's andrew. How're you doing. Was that a four. Four time joe now. A four forty is used for tune reference note for tuning but not all music based on foreign forty. I used to be hurts right. Sometimes people tune a little differently to aid. You know something a little lower little higher for forty if you're doing guitar while listening it's something like that okay. Anyway you fantastic well. I learned something here today tom. That's what the shows for doing even better than fantastic. I'm not sure how i'm doing until you explain what's happening then. True many weeks i. I assume trump still trying to steal the election. I think they're like oh well okay. Technically they're like one thirty or something on the lawsuits. And i. i actually don't remember what the one is. i wanna know. That's my first question but We got more legal shenanigans to cover. But also i'm excited because we have e one and only morgan stringer who We were already busy. By the way f- patrons will already know this busy recording. A you know almost two our lot awful movies on the plot against the president Which was fantastic. Go to patriot dot com slash law. Check it out. We break down the absolute monstrosity. That is the plot against the president. Devin nunez's just to give you a little preview. It's a documentary that tries to make devon nunez out to be some like secret bad s genius. And that's already. It is a documentary that shoots deal newness all but you know planting the flag jima. Right it is. There's a lot of walking down staircases. There's a lot of just like what. What can we do to make them look like. I don't know like a congress person. I'm as lost as you are director cinematographer. I don't know how could we possibly make this. Guy look like congressman. I bring this up because we were. you know. We're busy doing that for hours. And hours of stupidity but fortunately we have one expert. Morgan stringer to listen to rudy giuliani. So that none of us have to. We're going to have come on to give us the the greatest hits later. I can't wait for that. Been seeing a lot of means of charlie day being giuliani. Those have been funny quick announcement before we get going. That's right thomas. We are getting together with a our friends in podcasting with a bunch of great podcasters to head on over to the cognitive dissonance. Livestream this is going to be on black friday. That is friday november twenty seventh right so instead of yeah i was gonna say i know what you'll all be not doing which is going out to a place to go shopping. I hope yeah. Stay home and at four. We are the leadoff hitter right. What what sabermetrics tells us is the most important spot in the lineup so four. Pm eastern time one pm pacific You can figure out your time you're gonna head on over to twitch dot tv slash dissonance pod and. We are part of a three hour fundraiser for the georgia democratic runoff candidates raphael warnock in jon. Ossoff and it is going to be. It's going to be a great time like we. We're we're doing it. Seth andrews the how heretic guys all of the folks over from puzzle and a thunderstorm. I the the people you've come to expect and and what are doing is Encouraging donations to act blue To fund the georgia democratic graph. So here's the real thing. And i've got to make this plead all of our listeners One hundred percent. This will be competitive right like if we lose out and the scathing guys like raise more money for wore knocking ossoff than than we do like we will never ever live that down so show up. Show up to the livestream. We have multiple donors who have lined up to make matching contributions And this is a way right like everybody says why. Listen opening arguments like you know you. Keep me sane but you also report on terrible stuff. Well you know if you wondered if there's something you can do. This is literally the easiest thing you could do. You could listen to bonus episodes of this and other fantastic shows. It's going to be funny. It's going to be uncensored and and raise money for warnock and ossoff to take back the senate so it's important it's so important Glad they're doing that. That's going to be a lot of fun and we'll be first up. So i think that the sabermetrics tells us if the if the elections don't go well i think we're to blame. I'm not ready for that kind of don't don't let it come. Donate come watch down down all down to law down all right andrew. I have ascertained by the election. But apparently it's more complicated for some people to do some ascertaining semester than that. So aren't you tell us all about ascertainment. Yeah so i would not have thought that i would be doing a fifteen minute segment on my show about the definition of ascertainment pursuant to the presidential transition act of nineteen sixty three but here we are so many of you have been following the story and i won a breakdown what it means and of course the massive republican hypocrisy on this issue because it's a political issue so therefore there is massive republican hypocrisy. What's going on. Gsa administrator emily murphy is basically the kim davis of this election She is required to ascertain that. Joe biden is president. Elect of the united states causey is and pursuant to the presidential transition act of nineteen sixty. Three she is authorized to release information and funds to the biden transition team. And the reason you might be asking. I'm going to explain that the law is crystal clear. You might be asking okay. Well if it's so clear. Why haven't there been lawsuits yet. I think there a really two answers to that. The first is the law is crystal clear. But i don't know how much of an enforcement mechanism it has explained that in a second grade clear is kinda thing. Yeah and the second point is i. Do think right that there is. We're we're we're stuck. I think this is the last week of it as as we're going to go into in more detail on tuesday show but we're stuck in this kind of limbo. In which the biden incoming administration is rolling their eyes but not ready to go to court yet over the dominant narrative of well. We just have to give president trump enough time to get over the fact that he lost. I think they are thinking. That murphy will ascertain the results of the election next week. And therefore that will obviate the need for them to to have to bring a lawsuit seeking declaratory judgment and injunction requiring her to do that. So what does it mean to ascertain an election as it turns out this means a common sense judgement. So the presidential transition act of nineteen sixty three is super weird and by the super weird. Here's what i mean by that. Usually i will read the common title of an act and then as a lawyer. I will tell you. What section of the us code You can go to to find the act and here the answer is you go to three. Usc section one. Oh two i will link that in the show notes but the problem is when you type in three one or two or you. Click on the link in the show. Nuts you go there. You will see a two line provision that says the president gets a four hundred thousand dollar your salary you will see nothing about the presidential transition end of nineteen sixty three and all of the provisions that i'm about to talk to you about in order to find it you have to click on the editorial notes section wow And and let me explain that for a second notes in the annotated. Us code are meant to be interpretive guides right so a statute might say you are required. Expeditiously to mail out ballots voters and then in the notes it might say this provision was amended in nineteen ninety-seven and replaced and added the word expeditiously after x. Thing happened and it took five weeks for ballots to go out to voters and presumptively is meant to say we shouldn't delay by five weeks right and so if you go to court over that particular statue. The note isn't technically part of the law but is interpreted gots. I've never ever seen this i again. I'm not an administrative lawyer. I know we have some who listen to the show. So i invite your commentary. I have never seen an entire act contained. Only in the interpretive notes section sway who wrote those interpretive notes could anybody like the custodian just coming there and like some scribble some stuff in the margins there are two processes for this right the the first is that the notes are compiled by the west company. That puts the books together. But the second is that the the a law kellyanne three. Usc sticky note to. Yeah it kind of is like that. And so all of the enforcement mechanisms. And i use that with. Scare quotes are framed in terms of what the presidential transition act of nineteen sixty three says which is accordingly. It is the intent of the congress that appropriate actions be authorized and taken to avoid or minimize any disruption in the transfer power from the outgoing administration to the incoming administration. So all of the things. I'm about to tell you about. That's how they're set forth and set forth in section three and their ten different things that this transition act is meant to provide to a campaign office space payment of staff payment of expenses for experts payment of travel expenses communication services printing and binding. Postage briefings and workshops and that's a really important aspect as you might imagine the preparation of a transition directory rate. That is saying. Hey don't call karen over an accounting anymore. You wanna call. You know bob who's coming in and finally human resources and various software. It also provides for transmitting certain non public information. Because you've brought in and your transition people are now technically government employees right during the span of the transition that they occupy a little bit of a of a grey area. I'm not gonna go into you know whether they get paid and all of that. That's covered by the transition funds. And there are some wrinkles that that you don't really care about but none of that has happened and the reason that none of that has happened is because emily murphy has not ascertained that joe biden is the president-elect so the question is what does it mean to do that and should she have and the answer is subsection. Three c. says terms president elect and vice president-elect as used in this act shall mean such persons as the apparent successful candidates for the office of president and vice president respectively as ascertained by the administrative. That's why it's called ascertainment right then you might say okay. Well what does it mean to be the apparent successful candidates and the answer is that's not defined. The answer is use your common set like we can't define every word in law down like apparent successful candidate in nineteen sixty three when they passed this act having head by the way a very very close election. I between kennedy and nixon in nineteen sixty. You still knew what it meant to be an apparently successful candidate which by the way one hundred percent is what joe biden is. How do i know this. Because of todd's zwicky because he won vicky told you todd zwicky told me well. He didn't quite tell me what he did was wrote. Perhaps the angriest law review article i have ever seen. I mean that sincerely like as somebody who writes rather angry low overview and other articles and does a rather angry show time but In in two thousand one he wrote an article for the byu law review called the law of presidential transitions and that argued in two thousand that the then clinton appointee as the gsa administrator violated the law by failing to ascertain that george w bush was president until december fourteenth. Right which was after the day after immediately after a bush. V gore came out and gore conceded to bush I mean when it was clear who won base when it was clear who want right. Now this is zoecke. Said did their job yeah. You had a requirement to do that much much earlier and the reason. You had a duty to do that much much. Earlier is because apparent winner of the election does not mean you have to wait until the other party. Concedes it does not mean you have to wait until all of the legal battles are exhausted. It means you use your judgement. You say who's likely to win the election or in in zwicky words who has a majority of the pledged plus certified electoral votes and when that is a over two hundred and seventy when one person has a majority as george w bush had on november twenty. Six two thousand then. You are required to ascertain that. They are the president under the presidential transition. Act of nineteen sixty three. Okay but that's wrong. I mean there was a court case. Mean had bush v gore. Gone the other way. Maybe it's a five hundred vote margin in florida. You can't actually ascertain with certainty. Who won until you know what's happening with those butterfly ballots or whatever just hanging chats. I'm glad you have raised. That argument There is an entire section in the law of presidential. Translate another sticking all this out that says that makes to work events. The first argument that response to that is there's no problem. If you certify an apparent winner and that person later turns out not to be the winner right. Plain language of the act requires the administration It quote clearly limits the administration's discretion in naming the president-elect and Cannot be circumvented simply because you think that that person might have the results overturned by later court case again let me quote from zoecke using the term apparent congress recognized the possibility that some contingency might intervene that caused a situation where the apparent winning candidate did not. In fact turn out to be the actual winning candidate. This could be for any number of reasons including the death of the president-elect during the transition period. Electoral fraud overturning. an election. Resignation of a candidate ballot recounts the change the result after the initial general election or a faithless. Elector violates his pledge and votes for a candidate different from the one for whom he promised to vote the drafters of the act specifically considered the possibility that faithless electors and the fact faithless electors could upset the final recognition of the apparent winner as the actual winner acknowledging. This was a possibility. The drafters nonetheless agreed that this possibility would not provide a basis for refusing to recognize the pledged electors in ascertaining an apparent winner. Any of these contingencies could occur and in fact have actually occurred. But there's no reason to believe that the possibility they might arise again should interfere with baking the designation of an apparent successful candidate when one can be identified and i would add in response to the ambiguity that was created in two thousand congress amended the act in response to this confusion which look i'm making the strongest counterargument right like it. I i certainly think that the activity there was undertaken in good faith and was reasonable but nevertheless backing up. This argument right is the idea that congress in two thousand and one amended the presidential transition act of nineteen sixty three. And what they did was. They added a subsection. H and that subsection h says added in addition to president elect and vice president-elect added a section for eligible candidates right so in other words in the event that you can't ascertain who the president is. But you can ascertain who might be the president. There's another provision whereby you can then authorize some of the transition to eligible candidates and you could authorize it to both people right like the. The only person who is prohibited from receiving funds under the presidential transition act is of course the incumbent president because there's nothing to transition to the incumbent president so it manifestly clear to me that that zoecke was correct in two thousand and one right when you read the statute the point of the statute is to air in favor of a smooth transition from the outgoing administration to the incoming administration yet. Don't have to wait for the outgoing administration to concede you. Don't have to wait for all the recounts to beat over. You don't have to wait for all of the legal battles to be over. It's not a problem this is. We're talking ten million dollars which admittedly like. I'd like ten million dollars but as a function of the federal government. Right that that's couch cushion money right in the event that you erroneously certify the wrong president. What's the worst that can happen. And and the worst that can happen is the act by the way provides that the new people that you bring in you have to prepare a memorandum of understanding. They have to sign nondisclosure agreements. If they're getting non public information right like they have to abide by the law like the worst that would happen is oh a bunch of people who we thought were going to have. Jobs in the next administration turns out. They don't have those jobs and you know they can't go round and can't sell those secrets to the russians or whatever and all right. We spent an extra couple of million dollars on office space and postage for people who as it turns out are not going to occupy the white house and that the framers bipartisan rain in congress on multiple occasions have said yeah. We'd rather spend an extra couple of million dollars. And maybe a crazy contingency means we flushed down the toilet. Then have a situation like the one. We have now in which the incoming administration is being deliberately. Hamstrung right they are being kneecapped right here by not being provided information office space and ability to bring in their own people to start the hard work of rebuilding this government from the inside. There is no basis And hopefully it's truly disgusting. I mean come on with this. it's so much of it has to has all the republicans are like well. We just want to let him kind of come to know come. He lost the law. Says you don't get a like you know five stages of kubler. Ross grief of the outgoing. The law says as soon as you know who the apparent winner is then. You should begin the ascertainment process and that that begins right that can begin as early as election night. Right yeah twelve. We knew who the winner was onnell through. The apparent winner was on election night. Now here right. If emily murphy head taken until saturday until fox news said in nine hundred point font joe biden is apparently presidential rank. Like that's all that's all. We're saying right us ordinary judgment. Take a look and see who is likely to win a majority of the actual right pledged and certified electoral votes. That answer is joe by the law is clear. She is required to ascertain that and to begin the turnover process. And i think you will see legal action next week if she hasn't by that. I just picture exasperated kindergarten teacher pointing a stick at a board that says biden three. Oh six thirty two. So i don't know i can't tell which number is bigger than the other. I don't know i don't understand. Joe biden will become the forty. Sixth president of the united states election is not over. This is a major fraud and our nation. If you count the legal votes easily win do what's happening with these lawsuits Be at all worried. There was some talk of you know michigan. They're not people not certifying them and then they were certifying them. There's also a really nice rant by somebody. That theresa posted those pretty amazing dressing down. These michigan people who refusing to certify these election results. What's happening andrew. The answer is donald. Trump has confirmed in his legal filings. Today that all of this is a pretextual sham. And i'm gonna prove that to you using his own words in his own filings. I'm gonna make this crystal clear. The analogy i used when i went on the daily beans earlier this week and i know i. I really did this for you. Thomas because you know how much our listeners love when we use football analogy But this is the way to think about this election. It's a football game. Joe biden as twenty one points. Donald trump has three and as time elapses. He tries to kick a field goal k. The field goal is wide right trump throws the flack. And as you're looking at it like you're saying well that seems like a really stupid challenge flag because you know you kicked it was why expiring in your us right. Yeah and then you would say as a football fan but who the healthcare yes right wit all you want to lose twenty one to six great like are you trying to cover. Seventeen point spreads liquid. What's going the that joke last week whereas you know what have some more votes. Just we'll give you just ten thousand votes there you go. What's that it didn't do anything. Gosh so wasting the court's time with this nonsense. So that's right so remember. Joe biden has three hundred and six pledged and certified electoral votes. And we're talk next week about the distinction between those two that means you must invalidate thirty seven of those votes to make a difference. The trump campaign has lawsuits active in two states right now. Pennsylvania and michigan pennsylvania plus michigan added together have thirty six electoral votes. In other words. You could take the entirety of their nonsense lawsuits and by the way. I'm about to explain that they are nonsense and subtract thirty six from three hundred and six and you get two hundred and seventy which you know like. That's the election. Yeah but that's still. Yeah you're still win the election. No one care right like you win. Game seven of the world series to two one to mix sports metaphor. no one is like. Oh well you're just barely the world series champion no like yeah yeah you one and while i will say though that would really scare me if it was that close because of the weird faithless elector stuff. That should scary right. But here's what shouldn't scare you. I have said that there are right. Pennsylvania has twenty electoral votes. Michigan has sixteen electoral votes. I have said that there are lawsuits in both of those states. Kind of not now and this relates to the michigan law suits. So let's start with that because this is something that broke late last night. developed this morning and i think most media outlets do not understand the significance of what happened in michigan so there is a pending state court case that is trump versus jocelyn benson that is in state court The relief that they were seeking had to do with stopping the counting of absentee ballots. K had nothing to do with certifying the results. And this is the complaint. I know a lot got kind of lost but you may have seen media reports about how. The trump campaign filed an appeal filed. It i in the wrong court. And then they didn't attach the right papers. To that. Case is still pending. But i don't know what relief the michigan state courts can award in that case right because it says we want an injunction to stop the counting of absentee ballots because it claimed that observers did not have access to view all of them particularly video footage of the drop boxes before they were later counted Then also had that hearsay within hearsay. Where the poll-watcher said. She heard from another poll worker that they'd been told by yet. Other poll workers changed the dates on late balanced and the judge was like nah. You're kidding me right like that's that's that's your evidence you once heard from a guy who's nephews brothers. Cousins added. Get out of here with that. So that lawsuit is pending. But like i said the relief at wants is moot right now. The case that matters is also called donald. J trump for president versus jocelyn benson but is the federal case. Right that is filed in the us district court for the western district of michigan. And that is a request not to certify the results from wayne county. Which is the county of michigan that includes detroit and if those votes are not certified at all right if they're just thrown out zeroed as as with all of these lawsuits. Yes if you exclude the cities in blue states. They become red states. Yeah you mean the places. Where are all the people live. Exactly correct where. We're where people live and voted for joe biden. So this had the affidavits filed by two canvassing board members that so the canvassing board is split to to to republicans to democrats and initially the two republicans william hartman and monica palmer refused to certify the results in wayne county now. Their refusal was based on nonsense. Right it was well. You know there's all sorts of fraud and we're not convinced and blah blah blah blah blah. Total bs complaints right but then there was public pressure and they came together and they said okay We will in fact Certify those results after all now they have filed affidavits in which they said. well. I was misled. I voted to certify the results But i thought that the canvassing board was going to do some additional stuff. And so now i want takes these axes right. There are no take these boxes. there are never takes these axes. I'm actually you know surprise. You learn something new every day on this show not a lot of takes seasons axes right so so again before i get into the legal significance of this. I want to read to you from the affidavits okay. So first. william hartman's affidavit this paragraph ten during evening so i he says. I wanted to raise all these objections about voter fraud and then paragraph ten and this is written in you know william hartman. There's an affidavit. So these are the facts of which he has personal knowledge and his testifying under penalty of perjury. True quote during the evening wayne county council and my colleagues on the board continued to discuss. Irregularities in the canvassing mrs anderson davis that is the lawyer advised the board that the discrepancies were not a reason to reject the certification and based on her explicit legal guidance. I was under the belief that i could not exercise my independent judgement in opposition to the certification. Therefore i voted to certify the results right then it says paragraph eleven i was enticed to agree based on the promise that full and independent audit would take place i would not have agreed to the certification but for the promise of an audit and then if you go all the way out is actually missing a page in the court filing They're going to have to supplement. It skips from paragraph thirteen to the middle of paragraphs seventeen. But it doesn't really matter. Eighteen paragraph eighteen says now. I voted not to certify. And i still believe this. Vote should not be certified. I remain opposed to certification of the wayne county results. So that's what they're i witness says william hartman. Monica palmer says the exact same thing. A motion was made to certify. Those starting at paragraph sixteen motion was made to certify the vote and i voted not certify. The vote to certify failed to to to after the vote my democratic colleagues chided me and mr hartman for voting not to certify then the public comment paragraph eighteen. The pump continued for over two hours. And i felt pressure to continue the meeting with outbreak and then paragraph twenty after being told by ms anderson davis. That is the wayne county lawyer that i could not use my discretion regarding the anomalies. I believe that i had no choice. But to certify the results despite my desire to oppose certification based on the incomplete record so again they're witnesses in thereafter. david's say. I voted to certify the results. But but i i really didn't mean to and so now you might ask and this is the capper. You submit affidavits. Right based on the personal recollections and knowledge of these two individuals to get judicial relief. So thomas with your legal training okay. What motion do you think. These affidavits are attached to it works. Relief does the trump campaign one four which they have filed these affidavits. That said yeah. I voted to certify. But i want to take it back. Wow a high takes backseat motion. I don't think of what the relief would be. But you would think it would be some kind of takes. These back motion might be laughing. It'll be the latin words that mean taxis backseats but yeah take yo baxter baxter job. And how surprised would you be on a scale of zero to royal elhiani prized this morning. That these affidavits are attached to a notice of voluntary dismissal. That i'm going to read to you. Its entirety right now plaintiffs. That is the trump campaign voluntarily dismissed this action under federal rule of civil procedure. Forty one eight one eight. The wayne county board of county canvassers met and declined to certify the results of this presidential election. See attached affidavits. What what is the right answer. Yes this is attached to so you are allowed in the rules of federal procedure to withdraw your complaint to say to take that back disney lounge. They're trying to form like a singularity of take back to say you know what i don't want to go forward with this case anymore right and as you might imagine that those motions are liberally granted even if and look i have opposed a once in my career pricing offer almost twenty five years now and once in my career i have opposed a motion to voluntarily dismiss a case in court and that was against its actually pending case. Someone who i believe is a serial litigator right. Who would bring a case. I would file a motion to dismiss than they would say. Oh well well we're going to voluntarily dismiss this. But then we're going to refile and and i said i laid those facts out to the judge and i said look this kind of feels like gamesmanship and the judge was like yeah you know what like if it is gamesmanship. That's not a huge. It's not a huge burden on you. You know you got to remove the case you got to file an answer but you've already done that work already anyway. And so on the balance. I'm gonna let them voluntarily. Dismiss out their case right so i lost am. I not surprised that i lost. That's the standard in the interest of justice. But but but think about this. What the and this is what i alluded to at the beginning. What the president's lawyers are saying is we no longer want any relief from the courts so there is nothing that this federal court judge can do. They can say okay great. Yeah well what does it only buy. Yes no denied granted. I don't i think the judge can just send the big facebook thumbs up button like to reply. That means i have been refreshing. The docket all all day right while while we've been here Because i am dying to figure out what the michigan court is gonna do here. But but look yeah. The judge could issue At a minute order. That is something that shows up on the docket that just says Because this is number thirty. Three this is entry number thirty three notice a voluntary dismissal and the dock and the judge could very easily. Just enter a minute order that says Notwithstanding the factual inaccuracies contained in number thirty three notice of voluntary dismissal and noting that this court is not agreeing that the wayne county board of county canvassers declined to certify the results of the presidential election. This motion is granted. That's what i would do. If i was the judge and by the way it's what i think. This judge will what isn't granted the notice voluntary missile and then most okay as close trump. Say we got we won. Trump will say look. Do free wanting nine. Yeah but but he will have lost because wayne county filed a motion. That says can you agree. We lost this one. An judges like yes. I agree we won that big one hundred one hundred percent. This confirms that this is just stunt because wayne county has met. They have certified their results and look. It's a non trivial argument rightly it is it is it is. It's not supported by facts. But if that certification was procured under duress absolutely. You could get you to relief right. You could get injunctive relief. Overturning the certification. That's what they filed this complaint to do in the first place but they want to dismiss it. They're like all right. We'll get a time like it's like vietnam circa nineteen seventy-three right like declare victory and withdraw and as our as our favorite movie. Fish called. Wanda says vietnam was a tie. Daddy is that is what they have said. And and let's explain this in mathematical terms once this notice is entered right. Once trump is allowed to voluntarily dismiss out this case there will now be new case pending in michigan which can give him the relief in wayne county that he wants the state the state. Yeah about stopping recounts as big of pieces of crap as these people were who were like trying to not Certify the results in curiously the you know the most racially diverse county in the state anyway. It's all horrible but like i wonder if this was intentional to be like oh man i meant to not certified you know like maybe to get trump off their back. I don't know really funny The lawyer told me i had to. Because you know. Obviously i have to. But i didn't know that. I could have not so then. They tried to do it. Takes back. he's lawsuit. Is it all because of the baby in the white house that we've just been hostages to for four years like that twilight zone episode with a kid. Yes is the answer to your. This is we have evidence right at. It is widely reported in the news that the trump campaign contacted monica palmer. At least so that is a very very so the first part of what you asked is Is this all just theater. Yes and is it all just a temper tantrum from giant baby in the white house. Yes the second part is. Is it plausible. That these folks are trying to seek some kind of cover from undue pressure from the giant baby in the white house and again i can't. We can't prove that part but we can say it certainly seems plausible. So that's the last loss or that there won't be any pending litigation in michigan are so there's nothing to worry about or we all find everything. Fine andrew well. That was the pair teeth to the litigation in pennsylvania which has been dominating the news cycle and In which we had our own intrepid associate. Morgan stringer and listen to five. Hours of rudy. Giuliani arguing in open court in the book. Far case so You're not going to be sued for that. I mean you made somebody. Listen to five hours of rudy giuliani. Surely some employment law that i paid her for. that doesn't make it better toward fever. Oh good i got one. in caesar. opening arguments is brought to you by fund rise. We've heard for years that it's important to have a diversified portfolio stocks bonds mutual funds. That kind of thing but if you ever looked at the breakdown of the most successful portfolios you'll typically see a diversified set of real estate. So why isn't it one of the first asset classes you consider when you're looking to diversify well the answer simple hasn't been available to investors like you and i until now thanks to fund rise. They make it easy for all investors to diversify building your portfolio of institutional quality real estate investments. So whether you're just starting to invest in real estate or looking to add more our friends at fund rise have you covered. Here's how fundraise is an investing platform that makes investing in high quality high potential real estate as easy as investing in your favorite stock or mutual fund whether you're looking to add stable cash flow via dividends or prefer long-term growth through appreciation fundraise. Has you covered to date. Fund manages more than one billion in assets for one hundred and thirty thousand investors and since two thousand fourteen. The fundraise platform has averaged eight point. Seven to twelve point. Four percent annual returns and investors have earned more than seventy nine million in dividends alone fundraisers team of real estate professionals carefully vets and actively manages all their real estate projects and with their easy to use website. You can track your portfolio's performance and watch as properties across the country are acquired improved and operated via asset updates. So start building. Your better portfolio today get started at fund rise dot com slash. Oa to receive your first ninety days of advisor. fees waived. that's f. u. n. d. r. i s. e. dot com slash. Oei to have your first ninety days of advisory fees waived fundraise dot com slash. Oei and we are joined by. I'm assuming a very disgruntled morgan. String morgan i'm doing all right. How are y'all good Andrew is it. Are we okay to talk to someone who's obviously suing you for intentional. Infliction of emotional distress that normal. Can we talk to her. Can we say she's by by appearing on the show she has waived all round good fatuity throughout the universe. So i knew this was a trap. Of course it was so morgan. We just went through the michigan lawsuit and the absolutely bonkers procedure. That happened there today. You have been following the extant lawsuit parallel lawsuit in pennsylvania. the book var case in which donald trump is seeking to have pennsylvania not certify. Its electors Why don't you tell us about that lawsuit and tout tell us about who truly ani's fantastic oral arguments skills. Okay well it was also a very normal in very cool time attending that hearing so basically what the pennsylvania lawsuit is is. It's it's very weird. So they're claiming essentially there's two voters and they are claiming that basically they. I'm assuming they're trump voters right. And they are saying when they went to vote and this is in lancaster. County and then some other rural county up in pennsylvania. They went to go vote. They forgot to put their ballots into the secret ballot envelope. And then they went ahead and mailed it but they're saying that their votes were not counted and so basically what they're trying to do now is say okay. Well our county did not tell us that we could go. Incur- ballots and the pennsylvania code says we can't cure are ballots but then but pennsylvania secretary of state has been saying. You can cure your ballot. And these are ballots would have we would have been able to cure or ballots. Had we lived in philadelphia or pittsburgh and those counties and so they are suing under the theory of equal protection which is an interesting one but Yeah so basically the remedy. They're seeking equal treatment. Though is don't allow any of these ballots to count. Yes yeah basically and so that. Also a trump campaign is suing. Saying that they're also basically being denied equal protection under that same theory which bears very clear case law. That campaigns can't just that you have to show especially when it's dealing with a state statute so in this case that would be you know the pennsylvania election code and there was some confusion where the judge was even asking these two not the to voters directly by attorneys. Well why not sue their counties that did not count their vote. You know that's where you're actually where dispute lies and what was what was the answer to that. Well basically was well. We giuliani responded by saying well. They can't sue their counties because fair counties followed the law. That seems like not a great admission when you want judicial. Well they're saying. Oh no these rural counties all did great but in even said this and israel argument he talked about how d'amato he's talked about hobbies democrat run. Cities have his tradition voter fraud. And i'll just go ahead and talk about the giuliani's oral argument which was completely divorced from his claim right so they already acknowledged at the beginning. They said okay all. We're going to talk about. Today is equal protection claim. And you know this motion to dismiss and guiliani gets up there and just goes on a. I mean it sounded like i was listening to somebody out q. Drops like it was. It was bonkers. He started saying that these democrat controlled cities. They had this long tradition of voter fraud. There's no way that this was an accident. And he said that. Kobe that the pandemic provided cover for democrats. Who perpetuate scheme all across the country to elect joe biden at this point where the judges wearing those glasses that make it look like your eyes are open while there's actually you're catching nap underneath. Like how do they are. They deal with this one. Maybe they wouldn't let video happen so let's get this straight. The oral argument was over the equal protection count that which is the sole remaining claim in trump's first amended complaint that is actually before the court and the equal protection clause claimed that was that was the one for which rudy giuliani went went asked what level of scrutiny applied said. The normal one is is that right. Yes so this was a literal exchange. Wherever judge said okay. What level scrutiny am i apply and do you think i should apply here and then rudy just goes the normal wine and you can kind of almost here. The spy and the judge's voice and he just in rudy just goes and then he starts a say. The judge is obviously trying to lead him to answer right law. School professor would a first year law student. He says are you saying that. I should apply rational. Scrutiny and then rudy. Giuliani goes into this tangent. Did not see widely reported on about how. It's not rational to have his fraud going on. And it's not rational to these guys votes to cal- everybody else's vote and it's just like that. Is you know as listeners will know that is not at all. What rational scrutiny means. It's not was this action. A logical thing that someone would do is rudy. Giuliani a lawyer. I don't know i did. I did laugh. Because i saw on his as trying to amend the complaint that rudy giuliani filed a what he called his second amendment complaint. Yeah and i was like yeah. It's probably about to be a second amendment complaint. Because i'm sure this clark would like to shoot you because you've been trying to file these motions like five times now like and then they're just you know. I keep saying plaintiff. Refile plaintiff will refile. And it's clear. He has no idea what he's doing. I mean he hasn't entered a federal appearance since i was literally a fetus. So it's been fine but yeah rudy was going off about behavior saying this is one that i had heard before that these poll-watchers republican poll-watchers end into a pan and there was a big fence and he went off into some weird aside saying that some big company must have gotten a big contracts base from the democrats. You know to build these fences to keep the republican poll watchers out which was a weird aside. I'm have read. Yeah i was gonna say. I have read the first amended complaint in this case. This is a hearing on the motion to dismiss that first amended complaint. Those allegations are not in that complaint now so seems like not a great use of your time. No it's not. But this is exactly why. I have no choice but to stan attorneys government mark iran chick who called rudy out and just said you're making despicable claims court of law. He said this is disgraceful. Even made the claim like. I don't think. I don't think mr giuliani has read or even understands these past cases that have been coming down in pennsylvania including from the judge. Presiding to which you know rudy was like. Oh my goodness how dare how dare and then other people were kind of saying iran. Chick is which he had a terrible audio connection. I wish he wouldn't have. Because he was tearing broody apart because he was making these claims that obesity poll-watchers they couldn't even see ballots being counted with binoculars and he started saying the mob might be involved in. Just i mean completely crazy. Think i would have pulled the connection trick to if i was. I'm going through a tunnel. You're cutting out rudy. I'll email like denied or something in a raunchy. Made a good thing He did a very good thing. Where which i was waiting on somebody to say he was like yeah. Giuliani's claiming that this the concrete injury to trump campaign because that's essentially why they were asking to dismiss right because the in order to survive a motion to dismiss preveza both the campaign and these voters have to show how they in particular were injured. Point a to point b by these defendants and so you know just general allegation of well maybe counted these votes and maybe they didn't count vs. That's not good enough doing know. How many ballots were cured in these counties. They're complaining. Well that's the thing they're not even. They don't even alleged that these provisional cured ballots were even counted all real. Yes it's absolutely bonkers. And that's why broadly dylan here. I don't know how judges don't lose their cool more. I guess that's why they're judges by the way. Sorry to get all get all political but like you see these clips of judges dressing down like black defendants when the oh. They're caught with marijuana or something. Do all these weird things. Can we do that with this clown. Who is wasting everyone's time trying to subvert. Democracy going dress him down a bit judges issues. Some smack downs on this absolute creep weirdo claiming that the mob is involved. Come on at what i would have. I would have liked to see that more because honestly if is it happened. I mean even state court and mississippi a judge would have been like hold off. I'm sorry but what the hell are you talking about because we're here. This is like you know services. A wendy's promotion this mess. You know you are not talking about why and then rudy started saying. Oh well we he did kind of get back on track but after he was saying you know we couldn't even see baruba killers what was happening. And you know these ballots could have come from mickey mouse. We don't know he did start saying well. We have to get past this motion dismissed because we have. We have so much evidence that there's fraud all across the country and i also did like this moment so at the at the at towards the end when the judge was asking questions he asked rudy straight up. He said well. Are you alleging fraud because fraud is not alleged in your complaint and ready in rudy. Giuliani says yes. We are alleging fraud. And then the judge says okay. Well you know. You're aware that that has a heightened pleading standard which it does under rule nine b of a federal civil procedure bearer heightened standards that you have to you have to pass through to allege how fraud impacts you how it occurred different things like that you can't say is fraud. I want to just emphasize that a little bit. Ordinarily as we talk about you know how anybody can sue anybody that is under the under weight of the federal civil procedure you can It is called notice pleading right and that is when you see the phrase on information and belief. Morgan stringer broke into my house. You know multiple times right. I don't have to prove that you did. I have to say. I think you did. And then we go to discovery to gather that information but when you plead fraud you must plead the particular fraudulent statements particularity. You can't say there was a fraud. What kind of ron will i dunno it. Just the whole thing your honor. The whole thing seemed fishy. Yeah so that's that's what that is one hundred percent correct in accurately describing the law. But that's the practical difference right the law. Let's you say yeah. You know my my back door was pretty sure. I closed it. When i went to bed but then it was open and you know there were size six footprints and like you know the. The law enables you to draw inferences When you are filing an ordinary tort lawsuit but when you allege fraud when you say somebody has the lied to you and and required you to and fraudulently induced you to do something or other claims that sound in some one making affirmative misrepresentations do you. The law requires you to tell us what those are and they have not and by the way as we're recording right now just this just in rudy. Giuliani's hair dyes melting office face. All i've seen pictures everywhere of this disgusting die dripping. This guy is melting is literally melting down having a meltdown. Yes and then. Sydney powell and i don't think we can take it. This is too much too much solve as rigged vote. Sure dad since two thousand thirteen a lack words for this clown car so so what's next in the litigation okay. So what's next is well. The judge do not rule on the motion to dismiss which. I am very glad that the motion. I'm glad that an attorney did speak up. I think it was the attorney for the. Dnc basically stood up in kind of gave the judge a little bit of a hard time there and push back and was like toms of the essence. This guy just got here and said all kinds of crazy stuff and then going back to fraud thing he said yes. We're alleging fraud. And the judge pointed that out then rudy said. Oh no your honor. We're not alleging fraud. So keep that in mind for when rudy is holding these press conferences saying hugo chavez and cuba and whatever q. And everybody rigged the vote or whatever so yeah just just keep in mind but yes what's next is. Essentially if rudy has filed a he. Eventually i figured out how to file online big moment for him really all. We can do this on a computer. Wow he clearly did not know and then also to tell you how bad of a lawyer he is. also at the end of a hearing and you'll love is thomas. Linda kerns who was the attorney. He was dismissed but the judges wanted her. Bear to answer questions. She with jerry from mckay so the judge let her but he was like i want you here. She was about you. Know what is next in this case and things like that and the judge was saying you know this and she says well your honor. Is this all going to be in your order. And then he's just response. Yes miss kerns but you should be writing it down anyway. Because that's what lawyers do things down and then rudy did not understand that. He had to file a motion to amend his complaint. There was a really weird exchange about that. Where he he was saying. Okay so you're going to grant us or mentioned to amend and the judge said no. I'm not going to say whether i am or not. You can follow that motion. And he just again. He was gone understanding basic things about procedure to which. I'm just like whistle. Mob that hard to take down america's mayor everybody america's mayor i guess i want to conclude the segment with because the universe hates us. We will be getting the resolution too much of this era. Pretty much right as you're listening to this show Because the courts granted rudy giuliani's one day request for an extension of time which again in any normal case would be routine right. This is this is moving at breakneck pace. And the plaintiff has had three separate sets of lawyers withdraw which is usually a bad thing suspense to find out though the you know whether or not they're going to rule the java's rigged the election or not. I've who well well. Here's the thing. Here's what we're waiting for. We will get this at five pm today so literally within about an hour from after we finish this show we will know what donald trump through rudy. Giuliani is actually asking the court to do because right now. I'm one hundred percent serious about this. If they don't file by five pm today in this court a motion for preliminary injunction then. All of this is just theater right. Because the injunction is the request to have the court tell the canvassing board to do something right and right now. They don't have that. And and as morgan as pointed out right like all of these allegations about like you know defects in cures and all of that. I mean never mind that. These were all litigated in the various state court proceedings right so when you see trump is one and twenty nine in state court proceedings right like those were part of the twenty nine right so they want a second bite at the apple for something that state courts have already determined and as of now they are not asking the court to do anything. Now i think they will right. And i think this is going to be a delightfully ridiculous motion for injunction. That's due thursday five pm then opposition briefs by defendants are due friday at five pm and rudy giuliani's reply brief is due saturday at noon right so when i say this litigation is moving at breakneck pace That's that's the fastest. I've ever seen for a briefing schedule rate. Twenty four hours and then sixteen hours to file your your your reply brief So well no. Of course after the show was recorded. Exactly what that looks like. But you know. I expect the Combined brain. Power of rudy giuliani. In sydney powell. To to give us something. Truly amazing to look forward to that was arming. You can imagine going to law school and mississippi. I've seen some backers hearings. Wild hearings by this is truly one of mos- bonkers ones. I've ever seen where an attorney is just out there making up random stuff and again. It's just like sir. None of this is in your complaint like what are you doing. But yeah so i mean i got to give it up to iran chik. Who called him out for it. And i wish more attorneys would do that and i wish the judge would do a little bit more but you know i think he's just kind of exasperated at this point so in conclusion morgan. Great day of being employed by the law says andrew torres or the greatest day in your employment by the law. Offices pandur towards. I gotta say. I was enjoying it. I was but then. I was getting angry because i was like regionally. Obvious making twenty grand a day so that shows. Yeah you gotta get up to the twenty grand level. This interview was over and now it's time. Do you think our new patrons patriots dot com slash lot. Hope you're enjoying The plot against the president Truth finally revealed president and all the other good stuff so thank you to greetings from poland's anarchist jurisdiction jackson. Wash muth citizen earth media. Please don't think me on the show. Okay enact anti schlab legislation stop matt. That's pretty good adderall. At all the president's men is good too. I like that is such a good game. Four d. cure gabriel. Bodine moved out. The last four years stricken from the record. Yep that's that's about as plausible as Rudy's legal arguments same thing. Joseph ritchie and conviction notice at the white house. Yeah all right your turn andrew. Thank you to joe. Johnson to who angry german too key follow amuse splatters. It's it's i hope that's two people that have just merged fantastic name to timothy loveridge. Joseph mud without peer review. Your theory is just a hypothesis that is true to arizona. Blue balls climax twenty twenty which i think i just wanted to say that to wbz to napoleon bonaparte goodwin. Richard scott and thomas. M joyce thank you all so much for supporting show over at patriotair dot com slash law. Oh no social. This firm has ever failed the bar exam. No kidding and now it's time for t three b e. Although i feel like any legal knowledge i had android lost after rudy giuliani. Try to be a lawyer. I got man this is. These are oppressive conditions under chaffey to think like an actual lawyer. But i have. I have confidence in thomas. Police who had probable cause to arrest a man for a series of armed robberies obtained a warrant to arrest him at six. Am they surreptitiously entered. The man's house and with guns drawn went to the man's bedroom where they awakened him startled. The man asks what's going on and the officer replied we got you now and other officer immediately asked the man if he had committed a particular robbery and the man said that he had the police that informed him that he was under arrest and ordered him to get dressed charged with robbery. The man has moved to suppress the use of statement as evidence. What is the man's best argument for. Granting his motion a the police did not give him the required. Miranda was yeah be. The statement was not voluntary see. He was not informed that he was under arrest until after he made the statement Were d- the police did not have a search warrant authorizing entry into this is tough. Yeah i love this question. While i think hold on knees what i learned in the last segment I think you just say fraud. And then you're like it's fraud and then like what and then you win right now. You're not all unites. Because we're in test mode i get it you can't you'll you'll have to tell me you know next episode whether or not i got that right okay. That's my answer fraud. So okay. I mean miranda warning seems you know that's not nothing so going through this okay. So they have a warrant to arrest him does a warrant to arrest someone. Allow you to just go into their house. Guns dropped probably and you ask him if he committed a robbery. A the police did. Not give him the required miranda warnings. I think that's good but also this is weird. So can you just go and ask somebody like. Hey did you do it. And then because they already have probable cause. I assume you can't just do that. Otherwise it would sort of get around the miranda stuff all the time like that would be a one way. Trip is like well. We haven't technically arrested him yet. Although i don't know maybe it is be. The statement was not voluntary. Got guns drawn. You know saying we've got you now. I mean that's not a terrible argument is going to be hard see. He was not informed that he was under arrest until after he made the statement that i don't think is a good one. I mean i could be. Who knows is a tough one. But i don't think see some go. Nazi is so far all and d. The police did not have a search warrant authorizing entry into the house I know that when you arrest someone. I think you are then allowed to search the area of the arrest. You know for like weapons or something but if you have an arrest warrant can you just barge into someone. So i think so. Can't you. police can do anything in this damn country. Pretty sure you can so i. This is tough. i think i'm going to eliminate c and d. Don't they don't seem like the best wants to me. So i'm going to show. I'm grasping all the strasbourg. Have so is it that they didn't give him miranda warnings or that. The statement was not voluntary. I'm struggling because miranda seems good but if they didn't technically arrest him off because then the then informed him that he was under arrest in order to get dressed. What does the miranda. How does that exactly go. Because i feel like police can do the thing where they try to talk to you as andrews said that can be like hey has gone. Hey you wanna tell us what la la all right. This could be way off. I think i'm going to go not voluntary. Because they arrested with guns drawn and woke him up you know like and he startled and they ask them what's going on. I'm not confident. This and between a and b. But i think i'm gonna go with be because it was not voluntary. That's all i've got. I've haven't been arrested and don't remember the precise order of how everything has to happen with miranda rights. But i i. i don't know my finally answer. not confident addle all right and If you'd like to play a long time machine. I had to do that. Just share this episode on social media. Include the hashtag teeth three. Include your guests your reasons. Therefore we will pick a winner and shower that winter with never ending fame and fortune fame and fortune not guaranteed and. That's our show. Thanks for listening. Everybody and nothing to worry about. Andrew says it's all fine even though all this nonsense this happening. It seems like it's all fine because they aren't competent and they lost. Yeah this would be scary if it were closer. But it's not all right. Well thanks for that. I feel better have a weekend. Everybody see you on tuesday. He's not even a lawyer and he's kicking your ass. This has been opening arguments with thomas. If you love the show and want to support future episodes please visit our patriots. Page at betrayal dot com slash long. You can't support us financially. It will be a big help. If you leagues bucks are review on itunes stitcher or whatever podcast every vehicle you use and be sure to tell all your friends about us questions suggestions and complaints. Email us open arguments at genius. Dot com show notes links are on our website at www dot noattacks dot com. Be sure to join the facebook group at facebook dot com slash groups slash and follow us on twitter at open arcs. This podcast is production of opening arguments. Ellison all rights reserved it is produced with the assistance of transcriptionist heather leverage actions to ashley smith and additional contributions from morgan stringer and upset special. Thanks to theresa gomez who runs live shows and has at the wicky follow at belly with the twitter additional thanks to the moderators at the opening. Arguments community. Emily waters elisha. Cook eric. brewer. Natalie brian regan hayden entries up and finally thanks to thompson. Who edits the show and created the fabulous music which was used with permission.
Pro-Trump extremists storm Capitol Hill
"In the fall of nineteen ninety eight an elderly woman known as the cat lady went missing. She had a very Very distinctive silhouette and very recognizable. When you're walking into town a handkerchief on her hair long overcoat like somebody that lived on the street. All police could find were her thirty. Cats shot dead. I always knew something happened to her disadvantage like that. Uncover the cat lady case from cbc. Podcasts this is a cbc podcast. But i said something's wrong here. Something's really wrong can have happened and we fight. We fight like hell. And if you don't fight like hell you're not going to have a country anymore early on wednesday afternoon. Donald trump spoke to thousands of his supporters at a rally in washington. Dc going to walk down. Pennsylvania avenue i love pennsylvania and we're going to the capital and we're going to try and give our republicans the weak ones because the strong ones don't need any of our help. We're going to try and give them the kind of pride and boldness that they need to take back our country so let's walk down pennsylvania avenue within the hour. This happens angry. Supporters of the president advancing on the capital congress. Because i worked for us. They don't get to steal it from us. They don't get the toes. We didn't see what we saw. Cbc washington correspondents' katie. Simpson and paul hunter. Join me to explain how pro-trump riders managed to breach the capitol security and storm the senate and congress an insurrection goaded on by trump. Who refuses to concede to reality. I'm jamie so in. This is front burner. Hi katie and paul. Thank you so much for taking the time to talk to us on this extraordinary day and so late in the evening. Hi jamie still katie. I'll start with you It's been just a few days since you. And i last spoke we left off talking about the specter of violence with these protests. Planned for today the day that congress met to certify the twenty twenty election results and and suddenly i know you're racing through washington to cover absolute chaos on the steps of the us capital. And and i know that we're talking right now you're standing outside the capitol and what was it like for you being there today. It was a remarkable scene and it. It was certainly seemed unbelievable in the moment and and the situation moved so quickly that you really had to be one step ahead of what was happening to make sure the we're not going to get caught in the middle of anything and that sort of how you have to think about these security situations we have security with us and so we're just trying to make sure that We can document what's happening at and sort of get out of the way. I want to talk about how the day unfolded. This is usually routine event but this year there was a protest from several republicans. Who were they. What were they saying on wednesday. It is absolutely a routine event. I mean this happens early. In every january in which the president will be inaugurated it is utterly a pro. Forma ceremony changes nothing. It simply announces out loud in the us senate what. The state legislatures have already concluded and made official based on votes in the individual states. This certificate of the electoral vote of the state of arizona seems to be regular inform and authentic. It is so routine effectively. No one cares i. I mean. I can't even remember ever covering one of these days in my time in dc except for this year you know. Donald trump with his pushback combined with an unwillingness among many republicans to call him out on his unfounded. Claims of a rigged election led to this day today in which republican senators or at least some of them stood up to argue on trump's behalf to object to the counting of the electoral from arizona that they were not under all of the known circumstances regularly given everybody knew that it would change nothing. That biden would still be in the white house. Come january twentieth but they did it anyway. Goes the thinking to curry favor with trump and and all of his devout voters in trump nation. This is especially important for senator. Such as ted cruz of texas who are likely eyeing a run at the presidency and twenty twenty four so crews was among those who stood up knowing nothing would change but compounding trump's claims of electoral fraud his argument cruises by the way was one of those circular arguments. We've been hearing that. There must be fraud worthy of investigation because so many people believe there's fraud even though the only reason so many people believe there's fraud is because trump has been saying so it makes no actual sense even if you do not share that conviction believe this office to acknowledge that is a profound threat to this country and to the legitimacy of any administrations that will come in the future. Right right and let's talk about vice president. Mike pence as well. I know that he plays a large yet. Ceremonial role during the result certification. But he's been under this very intense pressure from trump to somehow overturn the election results in several key states and when it came to it paul. What did pence do on wednesday. You did his jaw. That speaker members of congress pursuant to the constitution and the laws of the united states indeed pence is the announcer in this event as vice president. He's effectively the top ranking person in the senate. His job on this day is simply to open the envelopes from the states and read them out loud Trump's view is that. Somehow mike pence could reject those findings reject the will of american voters disenfranchise them basically and somehow hand the election over to trump. Again it makes no sense. Pence told that trump. He's you know that he doesn't have the power to change. Anything in trump took him to task on it in a sense refusing to accept reality. And intensifying the pressure on pens to somehow do something right and mike pence is going to have to come through for us. And if he doesn't that will be a sad day for our country and all of that fed trump's narrative that something's wrong here even though nothing's wrong it is a continuation of this circular conspiracy theory. That's been spinning since election week. And you know what can go wrong while we saw so we know inside. The capitol pensa saying that he can't unilaterally essentially overturn the election and then katie nearby building a little earlier in the day trump gets on stage at this rally organized to coincide with the certification. And you know. He reportedly at this point knew what was going to do and like paul mentioned he was livid we will never give up. We will never concede it doesn't happen. You don't concede depp. And what was the message from the stage. That trump gave to his diehard followers. Well he really stoke that anger that exists in that crowd. These people really truly believe the election stolen. They believe the president when he says that and so when he stands on this stage and he says things like you're going to go to the capital you're gonna protest and i don't think we're going to celebrate any this quote. He gave it where he you know. He urged his supporters to go to the capital and protests. diffusely patriotically. Make your voices heard. Today we will see whether republicans stand strong for integrity of our elections but whether or not they stand strong for country and he's repeating these conspiracy theories these false claims it really agitate his base because again these people believe there. Democracy is broken. They believe something is wrong here. And they're very alarmed and they're very distressed and so when that tension already exists and they see their leader that they have such faith in continue to push this narrative and stoke this anger it it really makes for volatile situation and we saw that as the. The speech started to wind down when the protesters started heading to the capital. Listening to trump listening to their leader other was already quite a bit of tension trump. Believe this election was stolen pissed at all to be taken from them. He won legitimately and if you have to win by losing. You're still one thing we saw as we walked alongside them sort of documenting along the way is there was a young black man a counter protester who stood along the route and he gave the middle finger to some of the trump protesters and these older white gentlemen sought noticed. It and said i dare you to do that after night. You're doing that right now. I you to do that after dark and it was. It was clearly a threat of violence. Now it didn't turn physical and the young man left but it was very clear that they're they're these people were angry. And they're fixing for a fight baby. Check twenty twenty babies and then of course after after that there is this unprecedented seen violence in the capitol building pro trump supporters stormed the building in droves and katie described. The scene to me what what was happening. It was like the first thing we noticed as as we sort of walk toward the capital is that there had been some barricades set up Outside the perimeter of the building. And they're these metal barricades or the protesters had had stopped and they were standing with their flags and they were shouting But they very quickly decided they could dismantle these these barricades. They could easily pull them apart. They were not really put well together. And that's what we saw sort of stampede. Up to the steps there was a lack of visible security here. it's not like a capitol hill police. It's not like the national guard. It's not like local. Police didn't know this was happening. It was quite surprising to see the lack of security. The lack of police presence as these people stormed up the steps of the capitol. They even climbed up the the bleachers. That have been set up for. Joe biden's inauguration in the coming days standing up there sh- shouting and chanting and that's when the situation really escalated quickly center door their time and talk to me what happened then and what happened to the lawmakers who are who are in the building at the time so there's a moment when you can see it it happens. There are people in the crowd egging people on to say come on. Come on come on. And they're waving their arms trying to get people to storm the building and eventually the crowd pushes back and you know there are some police there. They they fired some pepper balls into the crowd and they had some flash bangs. But it didn't really do anything to stop them. And so as they started running up the stairs you see. These police officers backing up backing up. And they actually have to turn around and run for the protesters. Were able to sort of break through the windows. Get into the building and there are these scenes. This is supposed to be you know the place where american democracy is celebrated. This is sacred territory and These protesters broke in and and the scenes are unbelievable and as this happened the lawmakers of course. They're inside having these debates Many had to go through the building into lockdown people had to be insecure locations in about fifteen or twenty other members were among the last and then all of a sudden evacuate anymore they. They barricaded the doors because there were there were intruders again in the hallway. And the next thing. I knew the there was last breaking and shot fire. You could hear the protesters banging and all the doors an all the chambers and we thought for sure that any moment there we're going to break through and some of us began to calculate okay. You've got that door you've got three guards probably fifteen bullets for good okay. What happens after that. I look back over my shoulder in half a dozen congressmen. We're holding the door holding the door. Keep it from getting in and You know my first reaction was to go help them. And i started that way and all of a sudden hand grabs me. And all i hear is jerry. I'm on my sure you make it to the second week. I mike pence at first it was reported he had to be forced if he had to flee the building to go to a safe location. Now says that they. They stayed in the building the entire time but they did have to secure the area. Just think on a day in a place that is supposed to be You know th the bed of democracy a celebration of what is good in america democracy inaction and this on a big day unfold. It's unbelievable we were good people. The government did this to us. We're normal good law abiding citizens and you guys. Did this way want our country back. We are protesting park freedom right now. That's the difference. Why did you want to go. And it is incredible to listen to you. Talk about these events as they unfolded. Today it is it's surreal. It's surreal the imagery from wednesday. These rioters in the capitol building during their for for a while for several hours. And some of the images from today will just become iconic and talk to me about what we saw you know. Surreal is one word for it. Insane is straight arafat movie. You know i mean it would all be farcical if it wasn't the united states capitol building and if the most powerful position on the planet wasn't hanging in the balance you know when i when i saw the pics of those bleachers Year where the inauguration is going to happen. I mean i was thinking. I stood there. Watching trump get inaugarated for years ago. Like at to pass all kinds of security to get so close to where the president is like. It's right on the steps of the kaplan. What is going on here right. I mean then. Then i saw the photo of of the plainclothes security officers with their hand guns drawn and aimed inside the chamber thinking thinking. Nothing's going to top. That and then came that shot of the demonstrator in nancy pelosi's office. She's third in line to the presidency. And there's that man sitting in her chair feet up on the desk smiling interoffice and he leaves this no known as we will not back down and there was also this very well-known cunanan supporter from arizona. I believe he was wearing this really outlandish outfit with like horns on his head. And there's this picture of him. Sitting in the chair that mike pence had been sitting in the senate. This whole thing it was it was just bizarre and the freakish notice of it all was like i dunno like how do you how do you how do you talk about like it came so out of the blue. I mean i've been to many trump rallies and i've seen i've talked to q. On you know followers. I mean this is part of the trump crowd but now they're inside the capitol and they're taking selfies right. It's crazy all those trump twenty twenty-five that we see it all the rallies and the mega hats and everything they're inside that place and like no one cared. They're being photographed all literally. It was like a party right which just added to the bizarreness in the freakish. Nece of a comeback. They're all these chance. I this is our house. Our house and i mean you make a good point. All the flags iced. I suppose maybe this could be expected. But you know it's not like they were all holding american flags. These were trump flags exactly. And it's you know chanting. This is our house i mean. That's a common view of that place. It is the you know. The people's house it is you know they. They elected people to go. There is a feeling of righteousness about that aspect of it. I mean i'm. I'm sure if you sat down and chatted with any of the people that were there at some point they'd get around to saying no. This is our house and we're just trying to make a point in fairness right they steal it from that. This is our house. But it's the way they did it. And the the ferocity of it and the insanity of it and the unexpectedness of it. It's it's hard to absorb. It's hard to fathom that it actually went down that way but but do you really think that it was unexpected. Well that's a good question I think the degree to which it played out that way would not have been predicted. You know trump demonstration was a known thing We've seen how people have demonstrated in washington over time certainly since the election. There is a lot of anger out. There there's a lot of anger amid trump nation. The degree that this exploded into that. I think in fairness was unexpected. You know forty eight hours ago. Would you ever think that they would actually do that and yet they did. It's it's strange. It's an awful situation. They're having a good. Time is drained attempt at a bloodless coup. Well now it's not bloodless anymore. A lot of people have used a lot of different words to describe these seen. Sedition aku and assault on something sacred. All of that is being jeopardized here and now on this day like people who wear hats that save make america great again. I ask them to answer. The question is this. American greatness And the fall of nineteen ninety eight. An elderly woman known as the cat lady went missing. She had a very very distinctive silhouette and very recognizable. When you're walking into town a handkerchief on her hair long overcoat like somebody that lived on the street. All police could find. Were her thirty. Cats shot dead. I always knew something had happened to her. Disadvantage like that uncover the cat lady case from. Cbc podcasts from cbc podcasts and the fifth estate brainwashed is a multi burn investigation into the as experiments in mind control from the cold war and m. k. ultra to the so called war on terror. We learn about a psychiatrist who use his patients as human guinea pigs. And what happens when the military and medicine collide. Listen to brainwashed on the cbc. Listen up or wherever you get your podcasts katie. Let's talk about the way that trump continued to stoke the flames of this riot today. And what kind of things did he tweet. And did he say While this was all happening well as this is all unfolding. And one thing i should mention. It actually took some time for the images and video from the capita to actually make it to people's phones and for people to actually know how serious the situation was because there were so many people here. The cell phone reception was really bad. So i was trying to get video out and photos out and i know other people were trying to do. The same to there was a bit of a delay. The real time delay as to the chaos that was unfolding and the world understanding. We're so used to instant images on twitter and instagram but it was unfolding very quickly in front of us but getting the word out to the world was not moving as quickly and so two hours passed before president trump. Put out his first tweet about what was going on. And he urged people to respect the law enforcement. The language wasn't strong. It was nothing that was condemning. What was going on. It was just asking people to to respect law enforcement here on capitol hill. I'm asking everyone at the. Us capitol to remain peaceful period. No violence exclamation point and it was seen as the reaction to it was very soft. There were so many people calling on donald trump to condemn this. Tell the people to go home step in and really step up in this situation because these are the people that listen to him and donald trump's words really matter here It would be another couple of hours before. Donald trump put out a video. There's never been a time like this. Where such a thing happened where they could take it away from all of us from me from you from our country. This was a fraudulent election. But we can't play into the hands of these people. We have to have peace so go home with you. You're very special. Some of his other tweets described these people in glowing terms. Twitter became very frustrated and then deleted some of his tweets and slapped a twelve hour ban on his account which is something that we haven't seen. Despite a number of tweets that have caused a lot of division and harm in america from that account right right. And i know that facebook also banned him for twenty four hours though. I know lots of people believe that doesn't go far enough. I just want to read that tweet that you were referencing. Where he speaks about of the rioters. quote these are the things and events that happen when a secret landslide election. Victory is so unceremoniously viciously stripped away from great patriots. Who have been badly and unfairly treated for so long. Katie another thing. I wanted to talk to you about it's astounding that extremists could take the capitol building like this. You know you mentioned before how easy it was for the riders to get into the capital. There's been a lot of criticism of the lack of police. Intervention and many people have pointed at the vast disparity between what we saw today in the way largely peaceful. Black lives matter. Protesters retreated. and how would you characterize. The police response was noticeable. The lack of police response here people were going over barricades. They were stampeding up the steps and there were some riot police But they weren't really doing anything they weren't pushing back. It was a very different scene compared to what we saw with. The black lives matters protesters. I remember the first protests that happened in washington. It was the friday after. George floyd was killed by police and there had been peaceful protests in washington but on the friday night after that had happened That's when tensions. There were some clashing between secret service scarves and protesters and after that moment. The police presence in in washington. Dc was noticeably more significant particularly around the white house and when those protests continue and yes there was some violence in those protests but as the protests continue saw such a severe police response today. It's not like again. It's not like this. Protest was a secret and The mayor has even issued this bizarre warning urging people not to bring their weapons because there was some sort of intelligence telling them that there was going to be. People bringing their weapons. There was the fear of violence. They activated the national guard. But when you arrived at the protest today you didn't see any of that. You didn't see a heavy police presence around this right. I imagine there won't be so many questions about this In the days to come. I should note that president elect joe biden. He also made a mid riot statement. He talked about how this was an unprecedented assault. Unlike anything that the united states is seen in modern times salt the citadel of liberty the capital itself and he called on the mob to pull back and to allow the work of democracy to go forward the maybe very clear. The scenes of chaos at the capital do not reflect true america. And i know it took many hours to get this under control but eventually reinforcements were called in. The army was brought in the dc national guard. The mayor of washington imposed a curfew beginning at six in katie. You know as night has fallen on washington what happened. It took a while for the protesters to actually leave the area around the capital They you did see the police move in. They moved in formation and push people out but they didn't do it with the same force that they did with the lives matter protests over the summer As the evening went on it's actually quite cold in dc tonight as the evening went on a lot of people went home right now as we're speaking There's a handful of national guard officers that i can see. There's a couple of news crews here but it's it's pretty empty. I don't see any protesters left just yet. Okay and i also want to mention very tragically. A woman was shot earlier in the day at the capitol and she died at a local hospital. The details surrounding her death have not yet been confirmed and we also know that police officers have sustained injuries as well you know. In addition to this such chaotic day a pipe bomb was founded the headquarters of the republican national committee and destroyed and a suspicious package was found nearby at the democratic national committee headquarters that had to be evacuated. Ooh paul before we go today. Today was the violent combination of the president's campaign to stay in power. Can he be held accountable for what happened today. Could he be impeached again. I guess removed from office even though he only has two weeks left. Well although i imagine you could do a lot and you can do a lot in two weeks. And that's the thing right and look impeachment as we all learned is a complicated process But when you consider there are still just under two full weeks until trump loses the power of the presidency and that's a lot of time for him to potentially oversee a lot of havoc. Well there's the twenty-fifth amendment to the us constitution and that amendment is in place in part it has other aspects but in part it is to allow for the president to be temporarily replaced. If he or she is incapable of carrying out their duties in example In other circumstances would be if he or she has to go under general anesthetic for surgery so it could be invoked The vice president would take command during that time under the twenty-fifth amendment and then after the surgery all would revert back to the president or it could be used to remove someone deemed unfit for office. Like say donald trump the requirement though complicated For example you need sign off from a majority of the presidential cabinet all of whom are trump appointees. And it's never been invoked like not once that said. There is evidently reportedly some talk of trying to invoke the twenty fifth amendment regarding donald trump. This is this. Is that serious and if that gets traction we're in a whole new ballgame. Imagine how trump you know we saw after what played out on capitol hill right. Imagine how so called making air quotes here trump nation would react to that trump would become an instant martyr and then all bets are off right right and and just going back to biden's remarks final final question i have for you tonight. Biden pleaded to return to this pre trump era of america of american politics notwithstanding what i saw today. We're seeing today. Remain optimistic about the incredible opportunities. There's never been anything we can't do when we do it together. Does that world even exist anymore. Who knows right. it is the truth. you know Y- joe biden's brand is all about building. Bridges trump calls it the swamp that biden has lived and worked in for decades while biden's view. Is that if you spend that much time in the senate you know how to make friends. And you know how to make compromise and create a sense of normalcy in a path. Forward that appeals to all sides but those days they just feel like they're gone. I mean it's been building to this. It has gone on steroids lately. It has been stoked by trump Throughout his time in office You know we talk about a gap. It's really a chasm. it is a deep deep valley. Pick your metaphor for it And it is ferocious and and the evidence of the ferocity of this divide in america. That is now you know left to biden come january twentieth to repair. It's i don't know how how do you. How do you get back to normal right on top of everything else that biden's gonna be facing on top of covert on top of the economy. He's got this problem and there are no there are say. There's no easy answers. I don't know if there is an answer. All right paul katie. Thank you so much for being with us tonight Be safe out there. James all right so before we go tonight. S lawmakers returned to the chambers wednesday night to consider the certification of joe biden is president. They were escorted there by dozens of law enforcement officers. Here's a bit of democratic. Senator chuck schumer. Today's events did not happen spontaneously the president who promoted conspiracy theories that motivated. These thugs the president who exhorted them to come to our nation's capital egg them on. He hardly ever discourages violence and more often encourages it this president. There's a great deal of the blame. This violence in good part. His responsibility his everlasting shame. It's worth noting that several lawmakers who said they would originally object changed their minds after the violence after a few hours. Congre certified the twenty twenty election results. That's all for today. i'm jay. Thanks so much for listening to front burner and we'll talk teach him home for more. Cbc podcasts go to cbc dot ca slash podcasts.
NPR News: 10-18-2020 2PM ET
"Live from NPR news. I'm Barbara Klein the White House and Congressional Democratic leaders continue to wrangle over a new corona virus aid package. NPR's amy held reports. They're trying to bridge differences over the language of nearly two trillion dollar deal with an eye toward Election Day House Speaker Nancy Pelosi says, if the White House wants a deal done by November third, the two sides must agree before a forty eight hour deadline to that end she and treasury. Secretary, Steven mnuchin spoke for more than an hour Saturday but sticking points remain including on corona virus testing and contact tracing Polisi tells ABC the administration changed too much of the Democrats language they changed Shell to May requirements to recommendations a plan to strategy. Nevertheless, Pelosi says she's optimistic. They'll come to terms a treasury spokeswoman says the two will speak again on Monday. Meantime Senate Republicans have balked at the amount of spending under negotiation amy held NPR news. The video sharing APP TIC TAC says it's banning all accounts associated with the conspiracy theory Cunanan. NPR's Bobby Allen reports. This is the latest social media platform to crackdown on misinformation head of the presidential election to talk with stamping out Cunanan videos by suppressing individual hashtags on the APP. But now it is going farther Tiktok says all accounts and content linked to q a Non. will be pulled from the APP TIKTOK has one hundred million US users that's double twitter's American user base in recent months conspiracies about an e commerce company being involved with child trafficking half gone viral on Tiktok. France is reeling from the brutal killing of a middle school teacher by a young man who considered his class on free speech an insult to Islam's prophet Muhammad NPR's Eleanor. Beardsley. Reports hundreds of thousands of people turned out today amid the pandemic to pay tribute to the teacher. In, Paris, there was a huge crowd at last eleven. People. Clapton snapped instead of yelling and everyone wore masks the forty seven year old history teacher had shown a caricature of the Prophet Muhammad From Satirical magazine Charlie Hebdo as part of his civics lesson on freedom of speech and eighteen year old Chechen refugee who had heard about it came to the school found the teacher and beheaded him in the street with a fourteen inch knife. The killer posted a picture on his twitter account before being shot dead by police he wrote I have executed one of the dogs from Hell who dared to put muhammed down demonstrator Elizabeth Calm Down says the teacher was simply helping students develop their critical thinking. This she says everyone sees his killing as an attack on French values, freedoms and democracy itself. Eleanor Beardsley NPR news Paris. This is NPR. In Belarus thousands of protesters are back in the streets of the capital Minsk despite the government's threat to use lethal force against them they're demanding Alexander Lukashenko stepped down after being re elected president in what they called a rigged vote dozens more demonstrators reportedly under arrest today the opposition has given Lukashenko an ultimatum to step down by next Sunday or face a national strike. Voters in Bolivia casting ballots for a new president today NPR's Philip Reeve's reports tensions are running high this election follows the resignation of Evil Morales last year the long-serving socialist president was pushed out amid violent protests and disputed allegations of electoral fraud Bolivia's since had an unelected right-wing interim government that struggled with covid nineteen and it's devastating economic consequences. Bolivians have been stockpiling food they're fearful. They're nations. Polarized politics will again turned violent supporters of Morales. Hope this election restore socialist rule his former Economy Minister Luis Asi leads the polls. Most analysts expect a second round of voting, giving an edge to ask his biggest rival centrist former president Carlos. Mesa. NPR news hundreds of firefighters in northern Colorado or battling the cameron peak fire. It's burned well over three hundred square miles. It's the state's largest in history. The blaze is sixty two percent contained and isn't expected to be under control for another three weeks. I'm. Barbara. Klein NPR news.
The politics of chess
"From the newsroom if the financial times in London, I'm season Blackson last year's contest selection. New president of tresses governing body fee day was the Bishop in the organization's history with accusations flung from all sides of bribery, electoral fraud, embezzlement and a vast diplomatic influence campaign waged by the Russian state. Some Jane's has been investigating. What's happened? And he space John Thornhill about what he discovered. Sam you've written a wonderful Osco for the F T magazine about the geopolitics of chess and the fist fight to run its governing body feed given that a computer or a ten million dollar alarm clock has Gary Kasparov called it beat the best human player back in one thousand nine hundred seven why does chess matter anymore. I suppose you could ask a similar question about any kind of game playing in a way that obviously from sort of human point of view, something attracts us to the competition. The display of skilled because I suppose we could have designed perfect football playing machine. Had we have wanted to or a perfect bridge playing sheen, but it would be no fun to watch two machines play against each other would it. So we don't do that. And the only reason we're interested in watching deep blue play Kasporov is because Kasporov is there. We want to see him pit his human wits against machine. So I think regardless of the abilities of computers to handle chess. And by the way, they still on not perfect chess players. There will always be a space and a need for people to watch that kind of competition. And I think the interesting thing insofar as this article goes is that that's the heart of the issue. Really? It's about what games humanity plays with each other and the significance those games have. And chess is one of the oldest, isn't it? It goes back hundreds thousands even of years if you want to go deeper into history right back to India was of significance to rulers. It was a political significance hugely throughout history. Right back to the sort of wig chessmen on Lewis. You know, they were symbols of something that politically culturally connected a world, and for many, it still has that cultural and political relevance is still enormously popular as a game, isn't it? Yeah. Absolutely. It's something perhaps that in the UK, and certainly in some parts of Europe and the US as well, it might not immediately obvious because it's not a sort of mainstream sport. You don't see it on TV for various reasons that can't be much more boring than watching chess on TV, but it is hugely popular. And there was a yougov survey. I think in twenty twelve so even that a little bit out of date now, which suggested that there's more than six hundred million regular chess players in the world. And the interesting thing about it as well is that even if you're not a regular player. It's a sport or skill game. That has touched a lot of people. And a lot of people have played it on certainly know how to play I think in some places seventy percent. The statistics said from that you surveyed in Europe of people have played it at some point, and therefore know the rules of it. So it's got this sort of huge cultural resonance, even if we don't see it all the time on our screens for a supposedly cerebral game. The fight to win control of feeder his involved in extraordinary amount of low down politics involving as you put it small-time oligarchs and corrupt officials broking deals in Siberian mining towns and Islam theocracies. Why has this battle become quite so heated? I don't know. It's sort of an interesting one to explore. I'm not sure there's a clear on, sir. There's a degree to which it's that sort of old adage, which is often attributed to Kissinger, but is actually Wallis sad about student politics that the processes so vicious precisely because the stakes oh small, and you could probably say something of that about fee day because the amounts of money to run feeder on not huge by any means. Although the we're talk millions, but we. Sort of in fever levels of wealth. But at the same time, it's a universe of people who are competing with each other. You have a very particular kind of people that end up in chess obsessional, very intelligent people that quite literally spend their lives playing games. So why don't they do that politically as well? But also, you know, since the end of the Cold War chess has been in search of a meaning really because it had such relevance political relevance during the Cold War missile post, Cold War, period. It's still got a lot of cultural cachet and people obviously trying to latch onto that. And to use that for various purposes, but at the same time it's been a little bit rudderless until recently and a little bit forgotten. No, it hasn't had the direct attention of the Kremlin. Or certainly not in Washington. Anyone in power there? You know, we're not the sort of Fischer Spassky kind of matching Reckitt level of international awareness. Now, you say that there has been a revival of interest in chess, and blah, Dima Putin. Russia's president is clearly someone who is taking an increasing interest in chess. And he said once. Chess makes men Ysern clear-sighted. Does he see chess as a means of reasserting? Russia's soft power. I think increasingly yes, I mean feta is been run for the past twenty years by very colorful Russian national cooled kiss on allusion of. And he hasn't exactly been the best Representative of Russian influence around the world euphemism. Yes. Well, quite he's sort of said that he was met by alliens on his balcony at one stage. He's said that chess was gifted to the world by aliens. But he's also had some sort of quite shady dealings with unsavory characters like the Assad family in Syria for which he was recently sanctioned by the US treasury, but the new head of feet are Cardi volka vich is much higher caliber Russian recently deputy prime minister and the organizer of the World Cup in Russia last summer and clearly whilst restoring fee day to some degree of kind of international prominence and credibility will also be doing a lot to champion Russian soft. Power interests by saying here is an organization a sporting organization that Russia is not only in charge of cleaning up which obviously is going to have a particular importance in the wake of the doping scandal, which continues to dog Russian athletics. I think the other point to make is that Putin and his method of power his conception of power draws so very heavily on the Soviet passed in the Soviet experience of Russian greatness. And so the significance of chess is that it was such an important part of the Soviet conception of soft power and Soviet influence that even if ideologically Russia is moved on by years. It still has this important culturally that Putin wants to tap into. Now there were three contenders to succeed Ilyumzhinov for newest pushed out why did Volkova twin? Well, I mean, I don't think there was a clear choice. So it wasn't a simple case of the Russian candidate versus the reform candidate versus fee day has had these issues under Yoshino for longtime around mismanage. -ment around corruption allegations of bribery in the organization, and the problem was that you previously had a Russian Illumjinov who was very fake in his financial affairs running it. And then in the elections, you had three candidates as you say, you had a Russian who was promising reform, and it obviously delivered a very successful World Cup and had credentials for that. And then you had an insider Kyo Macropoulos who is also a longtime Lieutenant of Ilyumzhinov and therefore tainted by that. But similar Tena sleep. Also, promising reform rather unconvincingly, but similar tenuously also saying that he's not the Russian and he's not bribing anyone in the elections. And then you had a third candidate the Briton Nigel short who I think was always a very much an outside candidate and divided people on a personal level in feed because of his quite spiky comments previously and his long history of antagonizing people in your organization, he fell behind four kovic even though he'd been quite critical of him at the start ends. Then he did. So I mean. Nigel's point was very much that it was better to have a competent pair of hands running fee day, regardless of whether they were rushing or not than it was somebody who he felt was incompetent. And it'd been running it for the past twenty years in the form of Macropoulos, and there's definitely a personal animus between Macropoulos and Nigel Short as well that sort of flavored their relationship and at the last minute, he declared his votes Ford. Walk vich, and rather stinging Lii in very characteristic fashion posted on Twitter a picture of himself shaking hands with dwarf Vichit Simpson's in the strand in London, which is this story chess restaurant, and he captured it underneath how'd you say check Maton Greek clearly aimed at his opposition. How does Volkova which intend to promote chess? Well, I mean, if his last few months of being anything to go by then money is going to be a key element of it. So he's delivered on the promises. He made in the election by putting three million euro into fee day to fund development. He's also promised a much more rigorous oversight regime of. Chess. So he's mentioned that you know, every penny spent will be judged by performance indicators is no longer going to be sort of pushing money into regional federations with no sense of what it's being spent on. And he's definitely I think hoping to build on the relationships he has in the football world and elsewhere in the sporting and political world to sort of revive the prominence of feed in Europe, and the US the west in particular because I think they're really has fallen into disrepute, and there was a real danger for quite a long time in the US in particular federation, their supporters people at Kasporov in fact would split away from fee day altogether. So when I met tool kovic, he'd come straight from Davos, where he was sort of pressing the flesh with CEOs and politicians many of whom he knows, and I think one of the other things he's done is already tried to build relationships with fee for directly. He's actually friends with Infantino at fee for an invited Infantino to give a little sort of a speech for him at his election at feed, and they have already I think. Announced some sort of chess football events that are going to be held together in the future. So more of that kind of thing think to imagine what they might be. But thank you very much. That was John Thornhill talking to some Jane's, and you can fund linked to sums obstacle in our shades. Thanks for listening. Remember, if you're not sure radio subscriber and would like to discover more F T content e confined our latest subscription office at f-. She dot com Sasha.
Storyboys Its all connected OR the unified theory of Florida GOP corruption
"The hey this is david from the all points west podcast network in this month. You need to check out. The latest from house on fire gaby rodriguez and her co host. Semi gaza interviewed nobel prize winning scientists michael man about decades of climate change. This information that's been fueled by special interest groups fossil fuel companies and politicians. It's an incredible interview and it's up now so go followed rate and review the show. Now listen there's a couple of podcasts out there called house on fire so don't accept any substitutes be sure you're listening to the first the original the true house on fire the one with the white background that's brought to you. By the cleo institute you can also find the right house on fire podcasts. On clios website at cleo institute dot orc only accept the best. Go find house on fire. By the cleo institute wherever you listen to podcasts q. And i'm jewish dave. This is bird. Rose is bergara so dave. Tell us what people should be doing. People should be. We get started before we jump into this big episode that we've been meaning to do for a long time. Yeah i feel like we've been this has been on the back burner for at least a week now but Yeah everybody before we get into it. remind you to Follow array in review bird road. Podcast dot com. Because i know coupons a lot of work into it also follow us on social media. Advert road podcasts. That's mainly just twitter. But you know and get in touch with us. Let us know what you think of this show You can email us bird road at all points. West dot net. Then bring your pets in if there. If you're hot there hot that's true. Yeah so Dave like i said at the beginning we got a whole thing. We want to get into its many splendor story. I'm gonna tell it to you on our classic fashion. And i'm going to hope that you Chime in where you can and and kind of. Just try to keep me honest. You know some would call this a story boys episode easy. I'm not there yet okay. It it has been remarked upon dave recently actually just saw this on twitter the other day Never in our country's history think about this Never in our country's history has one of the main to political parties had its power and its influence so centrally and and just thoroughly concentrated in one state as the modern republican party has found itself centralized here in florida right now and as we say this. I want to mention that like we are. It's it's monday night. We're awaiting the George floyd verdict. There's a new anti protest law. That just went into effect. That we're gonna talk about in a moment here in florida that is going to you know obviously You know attention as other. Gop states try to pass similar anti protest laws similar anti first amendment laws in. You know how it is these These kinds of You know how it is. When these kinds of cases sometimes have their verdicts in its burs. It's like it makes people freak the fuck out and get out in the streets and actually let themselves be heard here in florida. It's a little up for debate. Now with the passage of that law this morning. What that looks like. It could be something that we're not used to seeing something that looks a lot more like communist china as this sure but anyway more than texas more than like what else alabama mississippi north dakota. Today's gop is the party of my state. the sunshine state donald trump is. The party's leader. It's avatar the holy ghost and he has retreated as we all know from new york and taken up residence at his like tacky room temperature. Shrimp cocktail resort mar-a-lago a number of the nationally known household. Gop names are here to You got a former presidential hopeful. Multiple time presidential hopeful senator marco rubio. You've got rick. Scott who used to be the governor who's also the senator The junior senator now and then our governor rod santa's who's talked about very often when it comes to potential gop president's or presidential candidates in the future we also have a lot of gop rising stars. You've got the latinos for trump lady. Who happens to be my state senator. I'm eliana garcia. I'm writing to be your state senator. Because building about obama bankrupting her family in april. Two thousand eleven. We found out that due to obama's re modification program. We lost our cattle ranch. But who had actually gone broke because she spent a bunch of money on a luxury cruise and we have the elected. Republicans who right angry letters to their fifty thousand a year fifty thousand dollars a year catholic school complaining that a catholic school is becoming socialists. So along with these rabid right wingers. We'll have the moderate republicans you've got the the the congressional delegation from down here. Mario diaz balart maria of the Sahibzada carlos jimenez and others kind of just like them so we've got the republicans to lie about vaccines who pretend that. Kobe never existed. Who pretend that climate change doesn't exist. Who who sort of like acknowledged climate change exists. But say that. We don't need to do anything about it and we've charter school. Republicans we've got legalized murdering protesters. Republicans we've got Ideological purity test for college kids republicans we've got you know voter suppression republicans. We got We've got all of them. We've got it all if the gop was a mad scientist. Florida would be the laboratory. Where basically does all of its experiments. yeah. And i mentioned i. I mentioned this a lot even though there are more democrats registered in florida. Republicans win every important election. You've heard me talk about this. A million times with the state dep democratic party. That's in turmoil. Democrats have seated ground. But there's no place in our country which is already a ravenously right wing country. We're all gonna rosie's and pathologies of conservatism. Come together in this one. Big dysfunctional may ask like. It does here in florida. So why am i giving all this backstory. It isn't that often. That all of those tendrils of republicanism come together to form like one twisted fat route. That gives us a clear distinct portrayal of exactly what conservatism is. And what the gop stands for. But for anyone. Following florida politics and anyone who knows to look between the lines. We can draw pretty clear. Line connecting it With some stories that again. We've been kind of negligent in talking about And that's what we're gonna do. I just wanted to drop in here that like. We're gonna use the word. Pedophilia as a catch all for people trying to like do pedophilia. And people who are trying to fuck seventeen year olds like grown adult mentoring. Fuck seventeen year olds. And i know that technically there's this word of phev ilya that is about. I guess like trying to have sex with older kids like teenagers. Which i guess is supposed to be more permissible and like they don't wanna be mixed up with with pedophile up several files. I just wanted to say that like for anybody who actually can bring that up and can like can enunciate the difference between those two things they should at least be questioned they should at least be brought to a fucking police police station and talk to so i guess what i'm trying to say dave is were doing another story boys episode like i said we've been delinquent and covering some of these more colorful scandals that have been popping up lately but it did work in our favor We waited long enough and were delinquent along enough that a lot more information has come out and these connections that i'm talking about have become a lot more luminated over the last four weeks we've seen a collection of truly tragicomic scandals that have stretched from miami. Although the tip of the panhandle involve people. At the highest levels of government sham candidates usurped senate seats ex-girlfriend drama pedophile office. Fires crypto currency. But up until recent days. This collection of misfit political scandals had each kind of been like one off stories until last week democratic party. They deserve their own episode. Like this but we're not really going to focus on them in this episode. They have a bunch of scandals and failures and incompetent intentional failures. A lot of people would say mostly not going to talk about the democrats today. Mostly going to focus on the gop caveat. There are a lot of twists and turns details. I may have committed some things. I may have forgotten some things because a lot of stuff came out about all these stories so if you think we missed an important detail in this saga what can they do talking. They let us know. Just get in touch with us on twitter. At bird road podcast. You can also email us bird road at all points. West dot net. But i'd definitely let us know so dave. Are you ready to go down the rapid. I'm ready are. Let's do some story boys in your heart. Won the crypto. Peto as i said. We've got bad politicians here but it is pretty tough pound for pound to beat former. Seminal county tax collector. Joel greenberg as a top shelf of shit. Now i i assumed utah over this guy is but i just wanted to include a picture on our outline. Just get a look at the kind of guy words that very much that helps me like get the full idea here already. So just google joel greenberg and see the first picture that shows up which is funny because this is a campaign picture that he himself Greenberg a republican is a guy who is a florida guy and was always kind of a piece of shit growing up. He turned into grew into kind of fail. Son who hitched his wagon to the maga- movement back when it was and he was already a grown man by then like a lot of vocal trump supporters on the on the local or municipal level. He went from being this like blandly. Apolitical dude bro. Just posting on facebook to a pretty significant player pretty quickly early. on in the trump campaign he was elected tax Tax collector in two thousand sixteen beat out a political opponent who opponent who. He was eventually charged with stalking and that stalking charge was not his only misstep while he was in office. Here are a few headlines that i gathered from your landau sentinel that document. Greenberg's time has attacked collected. By the way. Dave i had to like go out of pocket to actually pay ninety. Nine cents for a sun sentinel subscription so support local journalism. I suppose yeah. I mean if you're not doing it who is right mostly nobody So here are the headlines seminole county tax collector accused of impersonating police officer. Seminal county tax collector. Joel greenberg gives three and a half million dollars in consulting contract contracts salaries to friends and associates. Tax collector indicted charged with stalking fed. Say joe greenberg. Falsely accused opponent of sexual misconduct greenberg regularly still id's authorities former tax collector. A thief until his last day in office pam bondi who was At the time the attorney general. Of of florida seminal tax collector. Joel greenberg and staff shouldn't open. Carry guns oh okay way. Tax collector be packing. But seminal tax collector. Joel greenberg accused of soliciting hacker to attack county computers weird because he works for the county. Joel greenberg asks for professional courtesy after ticketed for speeding. Joe greenberg's unusual real estate deal. Joel greenberg to resign for groups. Call on joel. Greenberg to resign for islam. Phobic facebook post seminal tax collector. She'll greenberg budgets. One hundred and six thousand dollars on travel much more than orange lake in osceola which are neighboring counties and actually in the case of orange and i think osceola both bigger significantly bigger than seminal Greenberg backs out of controversial deal to sell off branch offices. Greenberg resigns seminal tax collector greenberg pleads not guilty to trafficking accused of using state database to look up minors editorial good riddance to joel greenberg central florida's worst politician. So that was greenberg. Just sort of On the surface level right He he got himself in trouble as somebody who was completely unqualified and also like not really interested in doing the job. I don't think of tax collector really quickly he uses office. Sign these contracts. That benefited his friends and family. Millions of dollars from public coffers went into his own pocket. He paid thousands to this law. Firm that was owned by this guy named anthony sabatini. Who was anthony. Sabatini people in florida. Who anthony sabatini is he. Is the florida state representative the sitting. Florida state representative best known for wearing black face to multiple costume parties. And being exactly the kind of guy who you'd think would wear black faced multiple costume parties. Yeah that that that that'll work my favorite story of how about greenburg. Dave is that he decided that he was going to start mining bitcoin under the county's office and he started a he. He got like this. You hear about the chicago. Police having like offsite like black site jails that people don't know about where they take suspects in them up. This guy had a off site black site. Tax collectors office that he had computers. Set up running bitcoin. I guess and it caught on fire burnt down from all of the bitcoin mining. Because that shit is like super intense on service. Yeah which that'll be another conversation for another day. I don't get that shit at all the way that causes actual physical issues but bring it up. Bring that up to bitcoin. Person like the amount of energy you will get the longest screed like why the dollar bill in your hand actually took way more energy or resources or whatever so cream greenberg. Got it his office. Despite this history that we had sort of touched on in those in those headlines of being really bigoted really islamophobic nationalist on social media he was just one of those guys that you encounter like a troll on the internet He paid thousands of dollars to this. These people leslie key and robert hoogland They provided no work product for the county and they basically work for or own. A firm called maga- advisory group so he was just funneling cash to friends and family. And when a reporter got in touch with robert hoaglund over the phone he basically asked like what kind of work were you doing and hoogland said this is taken from a political article article. What kind of work were you doing. Consulting work hoogland said. Can you be more specific. Know who said you don't think the public has a right to know. Since you were paid with tax dollars a political and for market or political consulting end for marketing hulan reportedly replied so things finally came to a head when it came out that there were allegations about Him greenberg looking up girls underage girls using the state. Dmv database basically and like and hooking up with underage girls and trying to hook up with underage girls so he also appeared to be setting up dates with women in exchange for monetary compensation that Came from all manner of illicit resources. More we're going to get to that more in a minute With all this history greenberg is now facing dozens of charges. He he had to resign He is part of this ongoing federal case. That is getting lots of media attention and seems to have new deep details of depravity every day. he like i say resigned back in june As those charges started to mount and he's really fun for us to talk about on a show like this. He's a real character He's he's kind of really though. When you get down to it just like another small time crook like just a tempest teapot. Not a not a really big deal. What this story needs. Dave is some elevation it needs some prominence. We need a national hook to kind of take story to the next level. Yeah something that's gonna like really dig it in and give us something that connects with everything going on right now. So that brings us to part to meet matt gaetz As a non floridian what. What do you know if anything about matt gaetz. I don't know that much about him. But i've certainly seen the headlines though about You know some of some of the stuff that he's been caught doing just recently so my take on that gates is this. It's he's a perfect man for his time be. Is the perfect avatar for the modern day. Like fox news right. He's the perfect like hey asshole for liberal liberals to hate basically. He's the perfect emissary for the own. The lips crowd who don't even really care about republicans are the gop or any or more conservative. They just hate liberals. And that's a lotta people up He's sort of like an off. Dressed up as a congressman the congressman for florida's first congressional district He was designed in the lab. I think to hyper normalize. This moment mac. Aids comes from a political dynasty. His dad was done is don gates a four to state senator Former four to state. Senator and matt basically took over the congressional district where his dad had staked out. His time is a state. Senator from the florida panhandle. Just the worst part of the state by the way. It's pure garbage. You're going gonna go to the panhandle afforded. Just go to georgia for definitely. Let's fucking trash. Anyway he raised a map basically took over that congressional district at dawn raised that family including his son in their home in seaside florida. Which interestingly i thought you might find A bit of trivia was the house from the truman show so that was raised in the truman. Show house that. That's pretty bizarre. That he's got an animated face. Kinda jim carey ish a little bit. Yeah he looks like i. I've seen him compared to a lot of the characters in the black hole sun videos. You know that kinda distended weird faces gates spent most of his early years in college years. Just shit faced driving drunk partying like a rich kid partying like someone whose dad is a state senator and doing that thing where your room he like. We always talk about that thing. It was like an urban legend when we were growing up that like oh your roommate at college dies and you get all as that actually happened him. His killed himself apparently and he got all as as allow great movie by the way campus. Yes oh i thought that was the rock. So he is a lightning rod for trump ism and the attendant sort of controversy. That comes with it. He's one of these. He's like one of these little kids at doesn't know the difference between the good attention and the bad attention or doesn't care. He just wants attention and he does get a lot of attention His rise which coincided with the rise of trumpism also coincided with this burgeoning friendship with another local elected official in florida. Who shared a lot of interest. And you could probably tell where this is going if there's a good story that sort of gives you an idea of what gates. His family is in florida politics and it has to do with this old political ally that they had who was Who ended up becoming a rival of theirs named ray. Sansom who wants sat in the younger gates can congressional seats for the congressional district one. So i pulled this for politico. I thought it was kinda funny. Sansom said his relationship with don gates. The dad had already broken down before a scandal. That sort of had this guy sansom then. a congressperson congressman End up giving up on his His own career because he claims he was forced to fire matt gaetz. He told politico. He hired matt gaetz initially as his legislative aide but then switched him to a job with the republican party but after a period of three to four months he fired the younger gates because he failed to show up to work. He said matt gaetz told him that this was his time to not have to come to work so he could sow his wild oats. Which to me is just an awesome way to get fired from a job to say like. I'd i took this job. Because you know i was pretty sure. You said i didn't have to come in or that's a great great. So who is he really matt. Gaetz you know dave in the movies how there's that guy and you can just tell from the dialogue that they give him at the front of the movie like oh this is going to be the guy that fuck something up or like. He is to shore of himself and he. He's he's the cocky guy. He's the guy that's like the crew the crew or the gang is trying to pull off the job and they have a scam going or something. But the there's there's always like one character sometimes two characters you know they're just gonna fuck everything up. Yeah so. suddenly. Chris penn and reservoir dogs was perfect. Yes you chris. But we'll it wouldn't have been chris panel would have been michael madsen right. Yeah i guess. So michael madsen was the guy where you're like okay. Well he's a little imbalanced in fuck something up and he's going to. He's going to be the one to kill to kill the hostage to kill them. The customer don't trust him. So those guys are matt gaetz intial greenberg spirit animals. That's who these guys are. At some point they began this friendship where they also began using websites to quote unquote. Meet women These are the kind of websites. Are there sugar baby websites. The they connect people who go on dates in exchange for gifts find. You know you're very familiar with these. You've been doing this for years. Of course as my second hobby after podcast and your favorite thing to do is pay to spend time with. Yes absolutely this this. This friendship also served as a conduit for drugs lavish after parties where other. Gop elite would get fucked up hook up with women who were inappropriately. Young and in some cases allegedly illegal young. They were writing on jets. Doing double dates gates was sending greenberg cash via then mo for dinners with women that he would spend the night within the greenberg. The very next day would be sending that same exact amount to the woman or the women again. Also by then mo a large part of the story broke via vento so gates had this habit also that is very charming of being on the on the floor of the united states house of representatives and showing nude photos of women to fellow super cool dudes and rating them with system. Codes for the type of conquest. Applying points for different women and Crucially girls allegedly again just generally like really cool dudes rockin type shit. Sure this is. This is like the main thing that i had heard about this guy by the news. A classic dude who rocks. Yeah so as as part of his defense in the public domain because he's been sort of getting torn apart and drag for his involvement with greenberg his friendship with greenberg in a lot of the charges and allegations. That are coming out of it. He released a statement. Matt gaetz did from the female staffers of his office saying that they had never witnessed a hint of impropriety but the letter was not actually signed by single woman that works for him. It was just kind of blank He went on taco tucker. Carlson show with some very oddly specifically chosen legal language and i pulled up an excerpt from from cbs. Here where they were. They were writing about that appearance and It said in an interview with tucker carlson on march thirtieth gates referred to allegations that he had been photographed with child quote child prostitutes. He said the allegation was fake. The alec that allegation had not been made public before gates brought it up on tucker carlson so he just kind of went out there and said that and also he said that he had never been photographed with child prostitutes in the way that he approached. This interview was weird. Because he would say like i have not been near or within ten feet of that woman this year. You know it was all very you know carefully chosen words probably for legal ramifications gates asserted that the extortion Because what happened is that he he makes the claim matt gaetz does that he and his father were actually victims of extortion and he asserted he asserted that the alleged extortion began earlier that month with a text message to his father demanding money in exchange for making sex trafficking allegations quote unquote go away. According to the according to the gates's they received communications on march sixteenth claiming that the fbi had photographs of mac hd matt gaetz engaged in sexual or she with underage prostitutes. This ended demanded money to help. Secure the release of robert levinson. Who ended disappeared in iraqi two thousand seven and had already been presumed declared dead proposing that president. Joe biden would pardon gates as a reward for free levinson so gates said his attorneys contacted the fbi which he said informed them. That gates was merely a subject not a target of an investigation. I love that distinction. Like does that ever mean anything. I'm sure there's a million. People were a subject of an investigation that ended up going to jail. He claimed his father again. The older gates. Don gaetz agreed to wear a wire to record the alleged extortionists gates sent axios who I guess reported on this screenshots of text messages emails and documents outlining the alleged extortion scheme which he claimed was being run by david mcgee former federal prosecutor who had been a private attorney since two thousand five megan's law firm called gates's allegation completely totally false and defamatory telling the daily beast that gates was attempting to distract from the sex trafficking investigation which really kind of holds up. The more you read this it really does seem like all of that. Extortion shit is cover. It's like smokescreen. The none of it stands up at this moment somewhere in florida. Joel greenberg visit joel. Children bird is cooperating with federal with the federal investigators to try to alleviate this like huge sentencing over his head and him his lawyer. Greenberg's lawyer has said that in the process of his client. Cooperating matt gaetz should be very worried about what his client has to say. So i pulled this report from the new york times the orlando sentinel and others. Who have confirmed that gates has become a focus quote unquote for of that investigation. This is from the new york times. Mr greenberg began speaking with investigators. He realized the government had overwhelming evidence against him and that his only path leniency in cooperation. He's met several times with investigators. Try to try to establish his trustworthiness through the range of criminal charges against him including fraud though the range of criminal charges against him including fraud could undermine his credibility as a witness. So speculation about mr greenberg's cooperation began mounting last week. After his lawyer and federal prosecutor both set in court that he was likely to plead guilty in the coming weeks he has by the way remained outwardly claiming that he would be That he would be pleading not guilty and that he was innocent. The times goes on to say that gates still denies wrongdoing. He denies trafficking girls. Flying women to the bahama which is accused of and other places. He sort of lawyered up. He's doubling down on his mega credentials. He's positioning himself as a cancel. Culture victim a victim of anti conservative anti trump but deep state bias Which is predictable. Move probably the best move honestly so there has been some recent news that came out from old record set children. Bert traveled on with taxpayer. Money to meet with matt gaetz taking rental cars for miami upstate. So more connections are sort of coming out every day about these two There's this unnamed woman. She's a woman now at the center of the story who at the time was allegedly seventeen years old and she either had sex with gates was traffic to cross state. Lines by gates had sex with him after that or had sex with gates angry berg or was provided. This is all depending on like what story you read and wen Or was it could have been provided to gates by greenberg like they. He hooked up again. This really depends on. Who's reporting you. Trust on which day a lot of that stuff is murky But there is a lot of smoke suggesting that there is fire with regards to the charges of pedophilia. And i'm not gonna apologize for calling it. That i know she was seventeen. But it's pedophilia Against gates and greenberg. so dave. we're gonna see how things go for matt. Gaetz joe greenberg. This case is going to move forward Probably a lot more names are gonna out the whole assorted republican pedophile sex creep kabul that they're part of Right now there are thirty. Three pending charges against greenberg which is a pretty strong incentive for him to fuck over his buddy But for the next part of our story we're going to shift gears a little bit. Do you have any thoughts or any questions about these fun characters before we relieve him in our rear view mirror. I mean my only question is is for someone like gates like is there other than aligning himself as a maga- guy. Is there any reason for anyone on that side of the aisle to support him at this point to just let him. Just drop off the face of the earth at this point. Let me ask you let me answer your question with a question. Do you think of the people who the next time that matt gaetz runs. Because he's a congressman yester- on every two years if he's not in prison till definitely ron. I'm sure it might run if if he is in prison. Who knows but he'll still pretty easily win. Florida congressional district one which is again basically an extension of alabama. How many people who are aware of this stuff do you think in. Their minds are probably like in their minds. Think he's probably did all that shit. But i'm not voting for a fucking democrat versus how many people think like this is deep state lies bullshit. He's being canceled unfairly treated unfairly. Whatever like whoa how many people just don't give a shit and like maybe they just like him more because he did he he did all the fucked up shit and didn't get caught or whatever. Yeah i know absolutely and there's probably a whole third section of people who think it's great that he's living the good life doing all this fun stuff so fucking awful Org three not the chills but the shells. I want to ask another question. Have you ever considered running for public office. And if you did how would you do it. What would your platform be. How would you approach it. I'd rather die than that would be a campaign. slogan though david rosen for congress. I'd rather die. Would be funny if i was a maga- guy and that was my campaign but just because i'm a guy i get. I get the votes because they're not only the democrat. Because you've you've run for that district elko that only goes read every genders so that was a useless response but thank you here in florida. We do things a little differently. As i mentioned at the top despite being this fifty fifty state the definition of the swing state somehow magically the state legislature is always a republican supermajority. The governor is always a republican courts are always packed with conservatives and most statewide elected offices are basically always gop column with like very very few exceptions here and there. It's so weird it almost makes you wonder how it's like flipping a coin a hundred times and it comes up heads every single time that you fucking flip it which yeah i mean that makes sense for politics but continue were being kind of facetious about it. of course sarcastic but there has been some increase transparency into this mysterious electoral set of machinations. That happen behind closed doors usually or Don't see the light of day that often There's been more cases of electoral fraud. Virtually all in the in here in florida virtually all in the case of a on the side of republicans candidate fraud voting fraud media manipulation gerrymandering. It all plays some role in supporting the gop stranglehold on a state that they probably shouldn't have a stranglehold on based on the demographics in just the raw numbers of voters the problem for the gop. As i was thinking about this like trying to figure out what the chink in their armor is because they've got a heavy suit of armor on florida as it stands but they've been doing this for so long doing the electoral fraud. The candidate fraud voting fraud. You know manipulating media calling people socialists. Gerrymandered it's almost down to letting people vote leading. Republicans vote by email. Like who the fuck is ever done that but get to do it here in florida. They've been doing it for so long and they've gotten so comfortable. They've kicked their feet up on the couch. Letting the nut tang liang shit stains in the toilet. That they've gotten sloppy and they've gotten greedy and that greediness and that sloppiness became very present in the twenty twenty election season. I should mention that they only got this brazen. I said this by said at the beginning of the show. I kinda of want to keep the democrats for their own show. When it comes to this but the reason that they were able to the gop was able to get this brazen about things is because the democratic party is so feckless and wing Yeah so what am i talking about exhibits a b. nc of the gop getting too comfortable in how they boss florida and how some names How they are exhibits. Abc of the gop. Getting too comfortable in the way that they boss florida. These are going to be some names. That you definitely won't know. Dave i'm gonna i'm gonna tell him to you says are affonso. Alex rodriguez not the baseball player. Or any of the other famous outside reuses and justina naughty so these are three individuals. Dave who ran as no party affiliated candidates in the most recent state senate races here in florida they ran on no platforms. They made no statements. They did not do any campaigning They sent some mailers. Which we're gonna talk about it. But for the most part they didn't exist in choke to candidate forums. They didn't debate. They didn't make public appearances. They did nothing. They just put their names. They filed the however many hundred bucks it is to get the requisite signatures or whatever. They did the paperwork to run and then didn't run miserable. So i wanna focus on. Alex rodriguez for the purposes of our story. Because alex rodriguez even though he only got a few thousand votes he likely cost former state. Senator now former state senator. Jose javier rodriguez. Who was my state. Senator a democrat. Alex rodriguez likely cost him his seat. And it's not by accident that that happened rodriguez. He was my state senator. He lost by thirty three votes to a complete fucking moron. Just weren't one of the most profoundly evil people. That's here in florida who i mentioned earlier at the show. The founder of latinos for trump ileana garcia. Who is now. My state senator. So now i have ileana garcia as my state senator a republican who definitely should not be representing are like the basic space on the demographics of who we are and what we are in this area in in senate district Thirty seven like she is not the right person again. She won by thirty three votes. There were two people named rodriguez on the ballot. One of got a few thousand votes and then the other one the incumbent. I think it's fair to say probably lost a few because of that Construction of the ballot so this specific connection these candidates. They're not like coincidental. They didn't just randomly decide to do this. You know there's a similar story behind us all. There's a similar story behind justina naughty right. They were Just in the nfc for instance is a white woman but you know. Forget about what her name sounds like. They sent out a They sent out a mailer with a black woman on it with her name. Do a primarily black district to a black precincts within the district. And benefited again. The gop benefited from all three of these people. Playing the role of spoiler and fucking up campaigns that democrats running So they're not coincidences and subsequent records. Requests and investigations in media reports after in the aftermath of of the election. Day showed that there's this deep long money trail that connects them with the florida. Gop the specific connection from this other name. That is a little bit more important on the level of the gates in the greenberg's that you need that you need to remember to. Gop state senator former gop state center named frank delays. Who is like this ham faced. Miami guy should have pasted his picture in here. Because you just looks like a like a like a rum him. Having run him Young guy. I think he's only like forty but he looks. Just i don't know. I don't know like look like a pink pig just floating through the sky on a balloon filled with helium or something But he's like a lot of these conservative cubans. He's overtly racist he got caught spewing slurs public in a restaurant he had to resign in disgrace a few years back after dozens and dozens of complaints and all of these different scandals than eventually. The party got sick of having him around but he is still around. He is a consultant. He does all types of sort of off bookwork. He helps people with campaigns. He's a gop operative and he's the one who first approached. Alex rodriguez Who is just some random dude. Living here in miami and Began to fund. Its come to light and began to fund his quote unquote campaign. I only call it campaign in the loosest possible terms because again the purpose of this guy was only to spoil jose heavier because his election day at which succeeded it worked. It happened and front cortina's bragged about being the architect of the scam. He bragged about being part of it. so this story is a story of the chills and it brings us to our final act of the story which is the singularity. Maybe you can tell where these two sort of broadly disconnected stories are are are are coming to ahead i. I don't know exactly. But i just what i do know. Is that everything. Just kind of works together in that. Should he state that. You live makes things feel just hopeless but i. I'm looking forward to hearing the rest of it though. I'm to rely going to be pretty quick because it's it's actually a very clear line that you can draw for the section. I want to rely on the work of a really great local reporter. Glennon milberg repeal his been reporting on the on these like straw candidates the shells since before became national news. The media even do that it was going on And i'm just gonna kinda pull up this this thread that she did She drew the line. This is glenn. Writing back on april twelfth. Congressman matt gates is now tied to schill candidates in a state senate election. This thread shows that goes candidate. Shows how that goes candidate is directly connected to southward florida shells. We busted last november. It's in the money trail that leads that led to frank art dealers arrest By the way also. Alex rodriguez was arrested. And they are both awaiting Awaiting i guess the first phase of their trial. The three she'll candidates planted into three four state. Senate races last november as we mentioned earlier I'm sorry it's kelsall for district thirty nine in miami. Dade alex rodriguez in district thirty seven. And just deny naughty in district nine up in central florida who has finally funny enough no picture because she's never been photographed like nobody knows who this person is. She's just puck name All three file this. Npa no party affiliation did no campaigning no fundraising nothing and yet. They were backed by two political action. Committees dave our florida and the truth. Both of these packs were created on the same day oct second one month before the election. And that's just the start. Both packs have only one contribution and only one expenditure and they're identical the only contributor on the day after they opened up the pack is to a company called proclivity which suddenly changed in forty campaign records to show grow united so it used to say the name of this company that they paid that they made a pain to as proclivity and then it changed. Somehow in the records changed to grow. United both are untraceable. Companies registered in delaware noticed. That she pulls she. Has you know she posts the receipts as they say And has screenshots accompanying this from the florida department of of elections notice. Three hundred and seventy thousand dollars went to our friend. Pac supporting the to southward a she'll candidates wherever he gives an a hundred and eighty thousand went to the truth pac supporting that central for candidate Two days later on the fifth of october both packs made what would be their only expenditure all of the money. Five hundred and fifty thousand dollars to the same clermont for the printing company that To the same cleremont for printing company. Advance impressions its owners are from miami. The mom and stepdad of gop. Strategist tied to both pap Both packs the product. She shows the flyers and the next tweet here the fires that they printed identical graphics but for the show candidates names. They were mailed to the respective districts voters to make. The shells appeal to democrats to siphon votes from the real democrats in the race. All of whom ended up losing as parsh- partly as a result. So back to. Florida congressman matt gates whom. The new york times connects to district. Chill candidate just deny naughty. She'll schemes are not illegal in florida. Illegal campaign funding is. That's how miami's seo State's attorney's office charged artigas and rigas no indication that the central florida. Seo's are on the case with respect to justify ninety so there's this long money trail that goes from gates to all of the candidates and ties all of this together in the franco delays. And the whole big plan with all of these other names that only very very inside baseball four politics people even know all of these names that are supporting and aiding and abetting and making this actual plan happened. And i guess what i'm trying to say about that is like first of all. It's very rare that it's all out in the open like this. You don't usually see it out like this like it's there for you to find but right it's not just like right in your face I also have pulled the clip from wwl tv. Nine up in orlando a the same article that we had talked about earlier about that couple. That runs maga- advisory i'll just A reach straight from the article inside. One of seminal counties most exclusive communities we that being the wwl tv nine reporter we also try to speak to former state lawmakers and lobbyists chris door worth who handled lobbying services for the tax collectors office through powerhouse ballard partners which is a law firm that all republicans candidates us down here basically door with resigned from that from last week following a report from the new york times in which sources claimed door with in gates discussed helping schill candidate entered the state senate race eventually won by jason brodeur. Who's a over the republican that eventually ended up winning it. So like i say this is like that rare case where all the stuff that we kind of know and feel and believe and i guess maybe are like a little too cynical about. It's a great out there and remember last. I don't remember if it was last week or two weeks ago. Would we did an episode. And i was talking about like a big theme. I'd like to try to talk more about on. The show is like how toxic self-deprecation can be because it lowers expectations for everything. And how we're like. Oh for the socks florida's corrupt for it as shit. Oh you know. Politicians politicians suck. And it's just we vote for all the bad people we fucking suck and it's just like get abets hopelessness. You know what. I mean like a story like this. I if feels at one moment. It's like it's gratifying. It's all laid out there in front of you and you're just like yeah. This is what i'm talking about. This is what i'm talking about. Everything's fucked up and then you're like man it's fucked up. What are i going to do. Yeah it's hard to not feel that way with the way things have been lately. But i i think in a very strange positive is that it's always been that way and so it's like it's not like it's a new thing it's not like it's really not getting worse. It's just always been this way. It's just you don't always have the means to track down all these connections and see all these things crossing and all that my question about this whole story that you're you're really like putting together here is how much of it is. Collaborative between these different factors of the republican party. At how much of it is just different little pockets of corruption. All happening. you know. Well it's funny. Because the impression that i get from reading all the stuff is that there are different. Cliques of Of the gop in the state there is the more ascendant and trendier cooler group that you want to be a part of which is the pedophile group the group of the pro-trump pedophile who by the way all the anti-pedophile pedophile children pro-trump people. You never hear them. Say a word about mackie's of course. Not no you'll never because that because that first of all they'll probably acknowledge the probably mentally acknowledge it but they'll just say like we said at the beginning of the show like. Oh that's the deep state trying to fuck him over because he saving babies quietly at. He's dressing up as batman and saving babies every night or some shit but You know it you try to read the tea leaves on some of this shit like for instance. Donald trump gates tried to spend a little bit of his capital. I guess his that he's built up by you know cape ing for donald trump all these years and and have a meeting with donald trump recently in donald trump cancelled a meeting apparently. And there's some debate as to whether or not that happened because again what the fuck. Donald trump donald trump didn't wanna meet with you fucking freaks back when he was president like you think he the biggest animating thing about donald trump the animated factor about donald trump was how much he hated. What he is an outer borough slick talking vulgar. You know not meant not fit for high society guy and he. He has spent his whole life trying to become a high society. You know Belva ball like the guy that will actually that people will will his in his adult brain. I wonder what he thinks. That is like that like somebody pins rose on him or some shit but like whatever that is people like. Donald trump have been sneered at by the elite like of manhattan outer boroughs people. They've been sneered at by the manhattan elite forever and they always will be probably because like where where donald trump but created. His mania was in trying to become accepted and not just accepted but like trying to do. It's a very boring supervillain origin story. like i i i want these people like me so bad that i hate them and now i'm gonna stray them or something. But what does it factor into that whole fucking thing are our rubes like matt gaetz and like and like florida politicians. Who you know. Like i think of like the guy who was running for governor brother were art thou like the like that like like a foghorn leghorn governor of of some fucking halley state. You know like liked like the last thing. Donald trump wants to spend a single minute with a single person. That likes him yet. These people don't register at all whatsoever. They're subhuman to him. He would give donald trump a choice between hanging out with his ten biggest fans from florida and spending the same amount of time with I don't know and a winter. Who probably fucking hates him. He would definitely rather hang out with anna wintour right. You know like. I don't know barbara walters definitely rather hang out with barbara walters. I'm not talking about an interview. I'm talking about just spending being stuck in a plane the next to his biggest supporter versus being stuck on a plane with You know a ricky martin. I dunno like any celebrity or anything like he would rather be because just to be in the presence of the celebrity or the or the high profile person means if he's winning and there's nothing that says winning about the the demographic that supports him unfortunately for him and for them more for them. I suppose dave there is a little epilogue to this and i wanted to call the epilogue ripples so to call these scandals scandals or corruption is kind of doing them a disservice gates greenberg the freaks that we talked about who aid and about them. The scum that benefit from the blanket republican leadership in florida. All of those schill candidates who go back to their job showing up where there used to be a blockbuster video and they're just is like an empty building now and they stand there and then they walk eight hours later like all these people they're all connected but like the way that you mentioned it was almost like the conspiracy and it is conspiracy. But i don't think it's in service of one person no matter how much air in the room. Donald trump takes up in the republican party. I think that it's more like an ecosystem and it's more like a like when you see an ecosystem that has figured out how to thrive really. Well that's what florida is. It's like when you see. Like oh i if i come back to this lake in august the bullfrogs are like huge because they just eight and there's no. There's no mosquitos here because they spent the whole summer eating mosquitoes. And then you know the bullfrogs diana the the larva of fucking maggots birth out of them and that creates a scheme. Whatever like it's like this perfect circle right a virtuous of virtuous cycle as they say in business school And yet. I am sure that there are people who benefit there are definitely people and corporations mostly who benefit But it's really more about florida as the test lab for the country and the world that these people want to create so just look right now at our legislature and the issues that we're talking about here in florida anti trans. Prep prep sports. We have fucking pandemic still going on and the number one Gop item up until today. That was that is was Making sure that that that trans girls can't play prep sports with other girls like they had. They had to focus time to put that into law. Now it's a lot The anti protests free speech law which can be wielded the way that it's written in so many horrible ways and it's going to have a really chilling effect in reality on the way that that that florida works Afford a the voters have afforded. Many times made it crystal clear that we love weed and his episodes coming out on four twenty so We want to be what you guys are recreational easy to get semi regulated. But you know are in favour of we'd like most of the country like most people But they continue to stymie that State unemployment system went back down again last week. It's fucking broken again Gerrymandering probably going to happen again. A terrible way Covert outcomes in exchange for an economic uplift. That really isn't any different from other states. So like i don't know we. We sacrifice a bunch of people so that we could have like one tenth of a percent higher unemployment rate or lower unemployment rate. Like was that worth it. I mean it definitely wasn't Voter suppression laws. That are mostly going to affect black and hispanic communities They just passed. They're working on passing a victims of communism day. That's going to be like an official official basically. Like an official day. I guess to celebrate cubans venezuelans and nicaraguans expos. Who who are you know. There are a lot of them here in florida particularly miami but i guess they need their own day That i guess would be a state holiday Meanwhile they passed the law that had an addendum the other day that officially on record denounced democratic socialism alongside fascism which as we all know are two sides of the same coin fascism and democratic socialism. So the effect real it's again the breadth of these kinds of things. You don't usually get to see them kind of laid out in a matter of a few new cycle strung together. The hot fucking news story right now is all this matt gaetz and children berkshire the joel. Greenberg story was one that was kind of firing in the background for a couple of years. You know 'cause you saw headlines where he was getting in trouble hand over fist So i think it's remarkable. I think it's worthy of this story boys episode that. Oh shit exactly one hour I think it was worth Spending this this hour talking about this. There's one other thing. I want to mention when it comes to the ripples there's also media ripples and there's perception there are narratives that get baked in. Were you read this this article or the same story written seven or eight times by different people different outlets shit like that and the big one that that that was coming out in the run-up to election day political wrote this washington post wrote is You know local media wrote this lot was like hey. Don't don't don't underestimate the gop. The gop's working hard putting in the phone calls doing the field work. You know making making it happen. Meanwhile democrats are stuck at home because they believe in covid and they're not getting out but meanwhile the gop the the you know the trump canvassers are out there. They're doing the field work and you know and and they would always be. They would read basically all of these articles You know political articles washin political in washington post. I think the worst offenders Another one local website for public florida politics like state website about florida. Politics was really bad with the soup. They would basically be rewriting a lot of press releases or relying on on like really specious data where it was like. Oh well you know the gop has you can find these stories dave. They're like out there where it's like. The gop has narrowed the registration lead with with with the democrats and it was a it was a battle of public relations. And then sure enough it came to fruition. Donald trump won florida republicans. Just like they always do just trounced florida integrate here. And you're never going to see all of those stories about the hard work and shoe leather and Canvassing in and hours. You're never gonna see all those rewritten press releases all this bullshit. That was fed to these reporters by gop. Operatives like frank tillis. you're never going to see a somebody come out and say hey maybe Maybe just outworking them and appeal and like the other one was like. Oh they're peeling two different. Just insert demographic cubans blacks whatever You know The new venezuelan voters in The nicaraguan voters who by the way can't fucking vote off the cuff bullshit stories. That they're never gonna look back on and be like Maybe we were fucking wrong. Maybe the gop was just fucking cheating inbetween fucking teenagers like maybe like in the few minutes that they had in between fucking different teenagers they were going to cocaine parties and ecstasy parties. Maybe just maybe there was some foul play. And maybe i bought hook line and sinker this bullshit narrative about how they're just like working harder and out there you know sending to their lists and engaging their base and finding new new voters dasha pissed me off so much because at that time when you and i were doing bernie shit and we were like you know actually you know supporting bernie and then even in the aftermath of bernie dropping out like one thing i knew is that the. Gop wasn't fucking appealing to anybody. It wasn't like they didn't have some magic bullet where people were just loving them. There were some people who love trump. there was some new demographics of people who specifically loved donald trump But get them. Try to ask them one question about what they're conservative. Beliefs are right and see them. Just be like be trump. because that's all that they're conservative. belief is trump. And yeah you know so. I just found those articles at the time frustrating ten times more frustrating and the days and weeks after the election when the reporters The political reporters would be like we tried to tell yet. We tried to tell you. The florida was the democrats. Were losing ground in florida and then infinitely more frustrating. Now that all of this shit comes out and not one of them is out there saying I guess. I guess we really fucked that up. Maybe we shouldn't have just reprinted. A fucking press. Release from the the florida republican party. Well they are learning from those people's playbook basically so they're they're they're just playing the same tricks so the show is such a fucking downer. We should have a segment where we say something about like what you can look especially when we do. The story boys episodes What can you do call to action. What do we what. What can you do about this. Honestly nothing there's nothing you can do about now this particular thing. There's nothing you can do about it. But i don't know if. I mean the absolute best case is trying to get you know friends or family or something to see that it's bullshit but it's not going to stop it from happening in the not going to stop it from being printed. Here's a question because the last question. I'm going to get into and this is the one that's going to get. Our show eventually cancelled because this is going to become my new bugaboo. This is going to be the thing that's going to eventually get. All of our shows pulled off of all the platforms. We're going to get the platform. I'm going to anchor but it is. They allow anything. It'd be guesting on an the the nazi crocheting. Our does doing whatever whatever gets their numbers up. I'm thinking specifically. I know you probably haven't had time to read through that new law. That was just signed into effect today but it really has me kind of more than pissed off just like shook really about this like this anti protest legislation that i mean there's a million implications but the deeper you go into it and the more you think into a game out the scenarios that it could present the more chilling it becomes but broadly it makes it where the basically you can't protest in groups larger than nine Otherwise police can just arrest you for no reason at all and You also can get arrested for protesting they will deem you a rioter You'll get extra harsh penalties in terms of like you know registrations and being registered as a as a You know whatever. I don't know if there's repercussions down the road like you won't be able to vote like that and then on top of that you don't get bail so you're stuck in jail until you're released so it's it's it's horrible and it's like that vinyl boot on the neck were i think and this is the thing that i'm concerned that if anybody ever started paying attention will we could very easily get completely cancelled for within the body of a potential responses that we as people have to authority over us at one point does it have to become violence. At what point do we really have to kill cops. I'm and i thought exercise. But i mean tell me that things are fucked up. I think that people can agree that things are fucked up ford particularly as a fucked up place that is that is being run by people. Who are you know who don't have it's people's best interests at heart. Except for very specific white people who live in very specific suburbs and have very specific lived experiences but the majority of us were not well represented And if that's the case if you're run tyrannical by and i don't mean this in the like oh hardee's wouldn't give me my. Let me come in. eat my My bacon cheeseburger because I i refuse to put a mask over my nuts as left the like free ball and public conservative shit i mean like actual tyranny not like imaginary tyranny like you know pretend victim tyranny. I mean like really like again not being able to gather in protests in groups larger than nine that kinda shit like real things like you have to ask. At what point do you defy the law and then the next outcropping of that the next sort of like logical step is at. What point. do you commit violence. Yeah at what point does violence need to happen for there to be. The appropriate amount of attention made the issue. Yeah national specially after that law. Today i mean i i. I only see it going in that direction. But it's you know it's not good once they start. I mean how do you how do you put the cap back on visit organized as a campaign they vote they say. Get out there and make your case. The democratic part of the state democratic party isn't making it easy all the state democratic party can effectively do is about how not socialist. They are and they're not even effective at that because people still think they're fucking socialists. Even though they're basically just fucking republicans And at what point do you have the punch back. The problem is that you don't have the apparatus of of the the states. You know what the state uses to meet out violence. You don't have that and as on on on the left you never will. So that was an episode of story. Boys dave which think i'll learn. I learned what i learned that there. There's a lot of little bits and pieces of weird strange corruption. Going on in your state. That all seem to play together in the strange connected thing and it's It it just goes to show that you you know. There's no centralized thing that you can kind of fight back against so it just it just makes it all the more darker but a smile on your face everyone.