2 Episode results for "Elaine De Button"
#183 Jamie Lerner Self-Care: If You Dont, Who Will?
"Welcome everybody's time once again for the next chapter with charlie hedges as he explores turning the page on his life. And your hey charlie. Hey paul today. We have an important discussion with therapist. Jaime lerner on the value of taking care of yourself. Our thesis is this. If you don't exercise intentional care for yourself you will be absolutely no good to anyone else on this show jamie and i are interested in the details of self care both and tangibly. What exactly can you do on a regular basis to build your own emotional bank account so that you have plenty leftover to give to others with that on with the show Jaime lerner how fun to have you once again on the next chapter with charlie. Welcome to be here. Thank you for inviting me again again. You know jamie the last time we did a podcast together. It was show number sixty and today we are recording. Show number one. Eighty three now was just over three years ago in january two thousand eighteen. How my goodness it's great to be back. Well it's great to have you back. I had such a fun time last time. And so i'm i'm looking forward to it. I've got. I have to tell you. And i and i want everybody to know that three years ago jamie. You gave me some personal advice. I don't know if he gave it to me personally. Or if it was done on the on over on the air but you told me we were talking about my difficult childhood and you told me to quit looking through the eyes of a child and look at my childhood through the eyes of an adult and you know that sticks with me today. And anytime i i think about that i think through the eyes of an adult and i think about that situation entirely differently because of you for folklore. Nice sometimes to have a different perspective. Oh well yeah and it's nice. Sometimes they have somebody that can offer you that perspective so before we immerse ourselves in our topic. Today as i was reading a bit. I would love to hear you speak on a couple of things that you that you wrote on your website and i'd like to know what you mean by two things one. You are a pleasure junkie. I love that. And secondly you're and what you're calling your third life. You're too young for a third life. So i'm very curious would those are all about. I spent a lot of time doing things that give me pleasure. Bad is in many ways. I think that that's really looked down upon in society that if we are to indulge ourselves and do things that please However i gravitate towards things that really connect me and bring me a lot of joy and my life is about that connection with my fault also pleasure and then of course to all and it's interesting because i think that wearing. We nurture and nourish herself in the connection that were having and then recreating with ourselves that we become so filled up that we just fell over into an onto everyone around us in a really lovely way bowl. I like to think of myself as the living breathing. Example off all that is possible when we are really Other no relaxing into healthcare finding pleasure and Sharing ourselves in a way. That's bob utah. I so agree with you. And i'm i'm sort of into pleasure. I read so much of the stoic. Mark serreze in seneca the younger but i i noticed seneca coding epa occurs. And so i read epa kuras. And you know. Unfortunately his epa corey and philosophy has been bastardized into some kind of drinking. And what do you call those things so sexual thing or jeez yes. What do you call those things shows shows. You know where i live. But that is not that has a representative occurs at all epa curse was in sort of sat cloth but he was all about life is to be enjoyed. Life is is a pleasurable experience. I really resonate with that. I think you're right that when you live a pleasurable life you'll live an attractive life. I like that the way you put that so talk about attractive lives what the heck is a third life while. I'm probably on my life by now. But i had my Children very young. I had my profession very young. I have grandchildren no way. Oh yes i have. Four grandchildren four beautiful grandchildren. And the most wonderful thing that i was there and assisted in each and every one of the birth which was amazing. Like a separate flights in itself. But i think that we are in reinventing ourselves over and over and over again and especially when i think that we have the ability to just continue to evolve and fifth reinvent herself though i think i will probably have nine live by the time on dong which are wonderful certainly identify but you know what really rouses my curiosity and that is because i female leadership female wisdom is very important to me that the divine feminine is a very important aspect and so i'm just curious. Why do you think that women would have maybe more opportunity or more likelihood to reinvent themselves. 'cause i think we hassle back why i think that women The tape on so many different roles and we wear so many different hats that becomes a part of who we are. I think fat especially now. Women have much greater opportunity to do just that the continue to reinvent themselves but a lot of it is because they need to. I'm going off of chart here. What is reinventing yourself. Look like because. I wrote a book twenty five years ago. That was ahead of its time. It was called Getting the right things right personal strategies for reinventing the life you want and that was long before anything was written on reinventing so i have my ideas about reinvention. But i'm i'm curious. What are yours all what's happening now. You know women or and probably men to are out of the workplace and in their homes and there are teachers needing to become teachers and literally for children in learning every day with remote learning. I mean we. Women are masters at adapting to whatever is needed. We just are and were very well equipped to do it. And it's also interesting about reinvention. Is that we lose a lot of something. That is very important along the way which is south care so women are masterful in reinventing themselves and then they also are masterful in forgetting themselves. How did how did how did he know. We're going to make a transition to self care. I mean seriously on my sheet in front of the next. The next bullet point was self care and you made a wonderful trenches transition to it. So that is what. I'd like to talk about now. And and focus probably the majority of our time is self care and personal responsibility and and especially in this current cova time of chaos and confusion and and one of the things that you told me about when we chatted before the podcast was that you described your passion. Your current passion for helping people find themselves in the moment. Can you tell me what that what that means to you. Find yourself in the moment every moment that we can be present and it is just a moment by moment and establish or reestablish connection with ourselves that that is the ultimate in self care and and i think a lot of that comes from being able to manage our thoughts and then are feeling but first and foremost our thaw and i think it's important cut. We rarely slow everything down and allow ourselves to be in that moment contain. That's why one of the most important things of how we can care for ourselves and then others it's always about foul firth and then others. It's kind of a win win for everybody. Jesus talks about that. When he says you know i it's always quoted love god and love your neighbor but what's always left out is love. Love your neighbor as yourself and to me that assumes self love precedes other love the cacao kangaroo barber care for another if they're not taking care of yourself self love is sort of. it's almost frowned upon that. You are selfish. You are ego centric if you do that and and if you take care of yourself too much and yet and yet if you don't take care of yourself you're you're no good to anyone else you know want when you could on the airplane they tell you to put your mask on on first before assisting other people and there's a reason for that. That is a universal truth. We cannot care for anyone until we care for ourselves without feeling resentment and if we feel is not much then we are not caring for ourselves or another. So you know. I think people don't really understand what it means to wrap third loving arms around themselves and nourish and nurture themselves into connection. That is the most unselfish thing that you can do. And in some ways it sure responsibility if you're then going to assume the care of others whether be children or a teacher or if you're in any role where you're in a leadership role it's just not possible to do it without having spent some time with yourself and nourishing yourself and if they're self some something to give agree with you on that and i was thinking about taking care of ourselves. There's there's just a number of of ways to do that in you know we're going to get into tactics toward the end of the Of the of the of the show. But right. Now i i'd like to disorder. Get a big picture of what do you mean by taking care of yourself. I know account. I have an idea of what i need by but but i'm curious what your interpretation is kind of goes hand in hand with taking personal responsibility to understand that really. It is known responsibility to care for your responsibility to begin to have an understanding of what year in the evening for yourself and then to figure out a way a gentle loving way to kind of implement some of that self care and most people do the opposite. They expect other people to care for them. They don't even know their own news. They expect others around them to know what they need and they expect that they should be given what they need. There's this really Twisted sense of entitlement. just because the very I think the other interesting thing about women reinventing themselves then they get to hide behind all of the roles that they've taken on as they never care for themselves the end up feeling resentful. They ended up feeling overwhelmed. The end up feeling all the things that they should be feeling and yet known even knows what they need. Not even know. They haven't even taken the time to figure out like okay but only know what i need for my. What do i need to do first thing in the morning but the guy can so myself up before we take care of all these other people so to step into that role of personal responsibility for sending the morning and ask yourself now. What are what. I need so myself. That is such a loving and lovely question to ask one and then to answer it with you. Maybe coffee before. I serve an to eat something before i i just some basic things. That really remind us that we're important. How counter cultural that is because we you know we're we're thinking we always have to be givers don't we we. We can't be. we can't be takers. we can't be an it's not even really taking it's it's more of. You're giving love from an empty cup and you've got to fill that love your love cup for yourself because unless you do you end up resenting the very people that you are serving and it doesn't feel good on your and it doesn't feel good on there and either never feels good to be given some things from someone who is representing you in the process so yet to unconditionally give to hand. That is a lovely feeling for the giver and the receiver and the way we get there is by taking care of ourselves so that we can give which hand alternate goal to feel good about the giving and to feel good about the person who is receiving what your kid i have for the last year been very involved on my own in in the in the sort of tradition node as mystic christianity and the mystics and and and i'm reading people of the thirteenth to fourteenth century teresa viola saint john of the cross and and teresa viola sort of my my guru. Now and she was. She was in the fifteenth century. And they talk about spending this time in divine contempt mystical prayer. But she is very strong that you do that in doing that. You are taking care of yourself your relationship with yourself yourself in the divine how how you relate in the divine but that that then becomes the resource for helping others that so you don't you don't just folk off. Yeah you don't just focus on yourself and forget everybody else. You have to focus on yourself but then the result is it results in a self care you. You can't help but want to share that with other people tackle once again. It's a win win for every beautiful idea. Now you want. You talked about personal responsibility in that. And i've even thought about making when i make a title for this show and we'll see what happens after the show. They make the title. But i i'm working on a premise of the me. Look at my own title here. Self care your responsibility to be responsible for yourself. Well is it so you would. You says it's good. I'm glad you agree because you're not title if you said no i don't believe any of that however it's a turn off for people a lot of people do not want to be responsible from south. They feel resentful that they should have to be responsible for themselves. They feel entitled that others should be responsible for their happy. And i think that it just needs to be thought about in a different way because who would know better for you than you know and yet we expect others to know what we need what. We consider south for first and foremost look. We need the great question. People don't ask themselves that question very often. But do you want. Don't ask themselves that either but people will tell you all day long what they want and what they get is more of what they don't want so and it's always someone else's all so you know if that doesn't work very well that way no it doesn't and and how in the world like you said if we haven't even really investigated pin through the thought process of understanding what we want and what we like in life. How in the world is someone else supposed to know that you know great costal one and yet we expect them to set us fai our needs and we've not identified their their needs. I mean our our needs and how they need to respond. You know My listeners heard have heard this before. But my wife. And i for probably. We've been married thirty six years and for at least twenty five of those. If not more. We take every year between christmas and new years now. This happens throughout the year but we take an intentional time of three days away so we can have two nights in one place. You know two full days in place and we ask each other So how was i. What kind of husband was last year. What kind of wife was i. And and what do you want from me. How can i serve you in helping. You find. You know helping you fulfill your needs and so we're forcing ourselves to identify our knees and until the other person. This is what i would like fantastic. I mean that's that's a conscious of our relationship a nice guy. Yeah yeah you know a lot of good writing on that jamie is. Are you familiar with the land baton. Elaine de button depends on how you want to pronounce it. The scarlet life. You know he's rich and really good stuff on that he's ridden maybe the best stuff of love between a man and a woman as anyone is written for you know. He's just barely turned forty now but he just has has exceptional writing on that. You know what i wanna do. I i want to go a bit deeper but before we do. I'd like to take a quick break. And then we will come back. And we're going to pursue a little bit more about this personal responsibility and how the victim mentality may come into play in that. Hi there this is charlie hedges. And you're listening to the next with charlie and my very special guests. Today's jaime lerner A woman who is a therapist adventurer pleasure seeker and a cute devil tae of self care. And that's exactly what we're talking about. And and i think she has so much teaches that i've learned so much from jamie and jimmy. We've talked about a bit about personal responsibility. And that letting other people know not expecting other people to somehow somehow be able to read our minds in our souls and understand what we need. We need to articulate that. What other kinds of personal responsibility you know. We're talking about our own personal responsibility and our self care. How can i take responsibility for myself. Do you have any examples of that for me now. I think that away are rewarded in society. Forbidden since Mainstream media that. They reminded us every moment. That's come we are the victim of everything. We have no control so for me. I always suggest to people to turn off the television and to Find a new source. That is a little more emotionally intelligent. That will allow us to feel good when you're done breathing. You're listening to or watching in fetter feeling paralleling cars. We have to take personal responsibility for what we are chasing to consume and hall. We will fail one way or done firmly cloud video. You know that's brilliant. You know is that we have to take responsibility for what we consume in our media. And and i find pretty much nothing but danger when not not just. Tv in general but for me. It's tv news and tv news. You know their their purpose is to stir up controversy in stirrup. Stir up resentment and anger and that victim mentality is just. It is so common on on and it's and it's in it's not one political side or the other it's all it is just so unhealthy because it doesn't teach self responsibility. It doesn't teach being rewarded for not for being victim but be rewarded for being a personal herself hero. And do you agree with that. I do agree with that. But also what's more important how you feel after you continue that because if you are not killing. Us clue for gale. It's not working on. Most people really feel terrible. They tell so soft and shutdown and the opposite of empowers the peel very different politics so there are many other choices but one could make in terms of how they were gonna get there do of the game and if our personal responsibility to be more discern institute something that allows us to that what we need an move along and feel good. Yeah i i like that you know is is i. Read your In on your website which we will post in our show notes that that tells people instructs people how to get a hold of you and how to participate you. have you have. Coaching sessions That are you know i. It took a look at them. And they're they're they're really good and very very very very helpful. And it's what you call the integrative approach to wellbeing and You wrote something jamie that that that really struck me and that was sometimes we simply need permission to redirect ourselves inward back to that most important relationship the one that we have with ourselves and and i like the word permission that we need to give ourselves permission because we don't were certainly not getting permission from our culture so who determines where we're headed in life if not ourselves if we're looking for other people to determine our direction where we're going to end up in in not the right place for us. We have to look within ourselves while. I think we have all the answers and i think that will we are tuned into ourselves that we are guided to exactly what we are. Maybe and wanting for some but there's nothing out there outside of it comes from the inside out so we will always. We would tune in that we will navigate quite well for and so trust on might be a little scary at first but you always know the answer herself to matter how me you don't know how or why but used to so. I like to tell people that. Consider themselves for all in greatest reform. Brilliant and sometimes i have found with me that my choices are not necessarily really strongly sent conscious choices but they are hints of intuition that this is the right. Move or charlie. There's something amiss here you know. you can't identify it. All the facts looked straight and all the facts. Look good to make this decision. But i've got this little haunting feeling that something is amiss and i think we really need to pay attention to those haunting little feelings because those are i believe. That's our souls way of speaking to us. Apple require intuitive. Knowing for sure now how does that work with something. You said earlier that i was that that i i i was also struck by and that was that we begin our changed through thought not through feelings because feelings can be can be they can be those victim feelings can be those desperate feelings in an insecure feelings and lack of confidence feelings. But but i agree with you that that they began with thought. So how how do you see. Thought intersecting with intuition. Ask people if they start tuning into the internal dialog that they're having with themselves probably all day long. What are the conversations that you're having and essential because usually they're not very nice people say some really not nice things about themselves to themselves and about other all day long so would we began to become more conscious. Howard speaking our and howard feeling what. We're watching on television and power feeling and we start to make connections between the dialogue and our own heads. Is i lock on television then. I think that we can pick a moment and ask ourselves is like this work and usually it's not working. It isn't feeling good and at that point. Then you have a choice then catches start fifteen. They'll the possibly called selectively fifty. We catch the information and began to focus on the parts to atra does and none of it pills cuts than you really need to find a completely different source or change the tone of the conversation that you're having yourself about yourself really a great way to start being very discerning about where you're putting now that requires a bit of self confidence. Doesn't it or do you. How did the confidence to trust yourself. That you've spent so long questioning yourself and spent so long telling yourself of stories about yourself because you know remember those more than the positive stories. How do we. How do we develop that that confidence and trust in ourselves that that we really are adequate more than adequate where we're probably the best source. Not probably we are the best source of information for ourselves. How do we develop that kind of confidence fall once again. You know i think or over. That came from probably was from long ago. So it's like what you had mentioned earlier if you could begin to look at those experiences through the eyes of your now where you are right here now as an adult. He thinks that you see them very differently. And then were available to us a little bit of emotional intelligence and ally yourself to shift from prof arc that it's not true if it's not true though we can drag vibration louis and otherwise a lot of from whenever and just play it over and over and over again kind of like a mantra without steph trusted we need to factor just like we need to fact check the unique ask ourselves like if it's even really true and ninety nine percent of it isn't it's not true whatever that was from whoever told you those things if effects apply to them. It's not relevant. So what does supply what is well. How are you feeling about you. Not hard you feeling because someone told you what you first effective that is adult once again. Who have to take personal responsibility in began to ask ourselves so the questions so that we can get the facts straight and i feel. That's a great idea is that we're in the age of fat checking and it's always about the other and it's about you know news but we need to fact check about ourselves and say is what we believe about ourselves. Is that based on current reality or is that based on some experience that i had in the past and very likely in early childhood but it goes on certainly through adalah. We'll go through our whole life. But we allow negative experiences to dominate our thought patterns about ourselves rather than the positive experiences and in it takes a real choice. I had to wrestle with that. It takes a real choice to remember the positive. Because i had a tendency to look back even though i had you know what would be considered Successful and and a rather healthy adult life. But i would look back at it and i would only see the negatives you know emotionally that would just all would come to my mind and i and i had to make you know. I'm fond of the of the term conscious choice. I make a conscious choice not to do that. To take a look and remind myself of the good things that happen in life and you know what doggonit jamie. The good things that i did i i did some good things i i actually an and that's you know. I know that is going to sound very egocentric. But i have to admit those if i don't admit those where am i doesn't sound aether center at all. That sounds like you having a real honest conversation. Theirself about who you are and wearing finality. That's like that's impact. Do you think this is something that is easier with someone like myself who is entering that later phase of life. You know post i. Am you know. Just post seventy. And i and i'm finding wisdom really beginning to come and and i'm seeing life very differently than i than i did. In my first half. Richard rohr breaks it into two halves. You know the first half the second half in the first half is very appropriately driven by ego building that we need to build ego and second half is assuming that we have our eagle built and we can dismiss it and we can lose it and we can be centered on love and centered on on giving out love. Do you think this this approach is easier as you get older than it is. When you're younger propen how pires one years of not been happy. And when you give people a choice i mean. Let them know that he happy in connecticut yourself and feeling good about yourself is an option. I think that opens the door for people because a lot of people don't even know that that's impossible so you know the other thing. Is that if you are unhappy and you want to stay there. Like that's fine but take responsibility for man terrible. I have no interest in things happen. I have no interest in valuating hall. I feel and what happened. And i applaud that. I say that's fantastic. You've made a really good choice for your spouse. They're not a victim to any. And that is powerful that you cannot go through the whole life waiting. Everybody for everything. No matter how awful it was early on and chances are a lot of strength that you have as a person say where as a result of some of those things that happened when you were drunk or an earlier part of your life and you should embrace fat and own and feel really good about it and possibly even thank those people for giving you the opportunity to be who are today because bar. I you know. I've learned through mentors and and and personal coaches that there have been voices that have inside of me that wants to protect me and that that i need to be cautious about stepping out because i get hurt and they are they. They're just simply voices from long ago. That says don't do this because you can get hurt. And what i have learned to do is not necessarily reject those offhand but to understand that those are protective voices. And i need to thank those voices. Thank you for trying to protect me. I understand what you tried to do. But you are no longer necessary. I very powerful a place for that and this is no longer at the time with a play. I mean that's fantastic. Thank you thank you. You know what i'd like to do is as we're beginning to. Oh i i. I was going to say. We're big beginning to wrap up a little bit. But i do. Have i wanna keep quoting you. Because you are so quotable. As i as i read and i liked your phrase i think you know it just reinforces to ever. We've been talking about so far. And that you said that we all need to indulge in self care. there's something about that verb indulge. I like that. I like self indulgent. And you know it's again not not not socially popular but that we need to indulge in the self care so we can live. I mean as you said so many. Choose to live unhappy. Lives thinking their victim or thinking that they're powerless. And therefore you know as a as a member of alcoholics anonymous and addictions what we did. Is we just numbed it. You know we rather than rather than deal with anything just numb our way out of it and that's no solution because that doesn't end up healthy and and parts at work. I mean if it worked. I was take great. Do it it. Doesn't it doesn't but feeling really good and then having the drink if they're not an alcoholic to accentuate. You're already good feeling great or detail really good and then to sit down and eat like a you know a pint of ice cream. 'cause feeling good in just wanna feel better fat worth but to eat ice cream to feel better. It doesn't work or to have a drink. You know them not to come guilty classroom. Yes yes and i am I am a non addicted ice cream eater. And when maybe a couple of times a month i will get a pint of ben and jerry's and there is no pretending that i'm gonna need half of it. I've tried to just eat that whole thing. And you know i i only twice a day. I do intermittent fasting. My weight is great. You know i. I'm healthy. So i can afford the pound you know it and and knowing that i'm not gonna take it. I'm not gonna have any for for a week. And you know the the pound will go and a couple of days and men are so fortunate. We can lose weight so easily compared to women men talk about women and men. I just what my wife has to go through. I just i think god daily. I'm not a woman. Says she just all this stuff that she has to do. And and you know i. I don't have to go through any of that. You know i'd like to spend time. Are our last few minutes on a couple of things here. And i think we've probably covered it for. I want to rehearse what you. And i talked about some tips for indulgent self care. One of them was to reduce or or completely lose our our intake of television especially especially news. And then i even notice jamie some things that were you know i like crime crime dramas sometimes but sometimes they're just too much. They're just too dark. And and and i just don't feel good afterwards. Just say you know why it just shows the evil side of people in the and it is. It is not good for me. And i've told my wife you know. I think we need to quit watching this show. this is. i can't handle it. And and i think when you recognize that the best thing to do is even if you're in the middle of june say enough i'm gonna go watch it in the jungle to honor honor. How you're feeling when you're doing whatever it is that you're doing that isn't feeling good. Honor and take a conscious choice to do something different. Yes honored and and and and i would add and to recognize an into. Give yourself permission they. You can stop a television series halfway through. Say this was not good for me. Even though i'm curious how it ends. The process of getting there is not good for me and not even. There's a bucket reading a lot of people get halfway through box. They're not enjoying it one bit but they feel compelled to finish it. It's like why. Why would you waste all that time reading something. That isn't interesting to you and doesn't feel get it you guys. You're preaching to the choir jamie. I i believe if i'm not into a book by twenty five pages it's gone and then after one hundred one hundred fifty pages. If i think. I've caught the gist of the book. I'm done because so many books are repeating themselves in the second half already. What they they said in the first half because publishers have a formula you know they want so many pages they want one hundred eighty or two hundred forty pages and even though you were done with the book at one hundred twenty you just have to add fluff and i know enough about publishers to know that i don't have to read the fluff. I can read. If if i get what i want in the first half. I just put the book down and and go with another awful grades. Your not a quitter. No no you're is as a matter of fact your the opposite. I think i think. I think you're you're an adventurer. You say have already reached the mountain of this book. This book is just just you know the the old paredo eighty twenty rule. I've got eighty percent out of it. I don't need to re eighty percent on the first half. I don't read the second half for the twenty percent unless i choose to read the last chapter. Sometimes i'll do. I'll just go and read the last chapter. I wanna talk about you. Mentioned emotional. self awareness e. q. I'm a big believer and knowing myself emotionally. What drives me what haunts me. Where i'm strong. And and where i may have deficiencies are are you. Are you a fan of of emotional intelligence. I really am. And i think that talking it's really helpful if you earn any kind of Parenting loan leadership rural relationship with somebody We think it's a. It's a really good gayle yet again. And it helped us along to the emotionally intelligent and helps us navigate of angle for curation. Do you like the instruments the the instruments or any of those things you need that you are a fan of over others. Well i liked the concept that are simple to break down to understand what emotional intelligence is and higher. They can tap into any given moment because we all have the ability to be emotionally intelligent taking a test. Yeah yeah that is good and you know you continue. I'm gathering from our conversation. You continue to emphasize that you already have pretty much everything you need to know. You just need to access it and to consciously access it and to listen to yourself and to pay attention to yourself and sometimes that's journaling. Sometimes that's meditation or some solitary practice of of identifying. What is in your court taking that time to to clear your mind best you can and and understand what's driving you and and i think we would all be shocked to know that we already know what we need. If we just after oval. Yeah you believe the hundred percent the asked by do but i think we're so used to everyone else telling us what we need. Which is it's interesting. It's so difficult because on one hand everyone's telling us what we need and on the other hand were asking others could give us and we're never asked me herself like every product is being sold. It's been two cars. Don't telling us what we need. But do we ask for stuff. Like what do we need most important questions like. What do you what you need in this moment. And then the next moment and so if the great question. Mary could probably yourself every single moment of the day and give botham only total lifting for the antle. It will come to but you know what i think we need jamie and i i think so. Many people need is we don't need gurus but we need guides because we're not used to asking ourselves those questions. We're unfamiliar with those questions. We don't even even first of all. We don't even know where to go to answer the questions. And then if we get answers with a difficult time interpreting them and that's why that's why a guide or a coach or you know someone to talk to just appeared that that's working through that with you. I think it's helpful not to take this journey by yourself. Yes but on the other hand when you ask yourself a question and you are quiet enough to listen for the answer. New are guided to exactly where you need to be can give me an example of that you give a give a personal example of how that how you came across that somebody is asking themselves the question and then they all slept are struck with an inspiration to google search something there to look for resource and then they have a list of resources than team canada but intruder play their attractive to one. Then they click on that and that looks interesting but no the read a little bit about it and it doesn't feel as good as they saw they go back and then another one and that one feels a little better for they go a little further and explore that foul. This really resumes picking. And so i think of ourselves the time and the opportunity to trust herself. That lee can intuitively to what we are needing south if we ask the question and then are quiet enough here. That is it helpful. Donald journal. That jamie i think for everybody different. Everyone has a different loss. But i think we are inspired at times students. Who don't even know what inspired us but we're like. Oh my god. What a pain kicking. No i was so yucky that i found. I darn coincidences. And you weren't lucky. But into the phone your guidance and he trusted you run into it so you thought your take personal responsibility for that too or just the opposite. If you're working with someone and it's not feeling like it's not right find someone else to work. Trust yourself but what are. You should be telling you what you need to be working on and what you need to be doing. You know you know what you need to be doing and you know you need to work and take personal responsibility and find someone who will support that people end up in therapy years and years in year they get nowhere. It's just unbelievable. But they don't even know they have an option to get out of therapy. Oh my goodness about that is that is that that guru oriented that we feel in an odd sort of way. It is almost like a victim in that in that we're in. We don't trust our capacity to know about ourselves when we feel like. We need an expert to tell us about ourselves. We need someone to and and and you're consistent in arguing that we don't need experts that we have everything we need already built inside of us we just need to discover processes perhaps and in confidence in in discovery ourselves and i think we are experts for ourselves. I don't think experts. I don't consider myself an expert for anybody. Do you know but you know how rare that is. Jamie did you know that is. That is a wonderful place but i. I don't know how many people really feel expert in themselves that they feel lost themselves. I i don't know what i want. If i only knew what my purpose in life was if i only knew what i was here to do and to and to accomplish and if i only knew what would self-fulfilment would mean to me because we have so many con- conflicting sources out there telling us. This is what you need. This is what you don't need and you know in our american self-help culture is almost. It's almost destructive. Think they're air fell more consciousness and more awareness and more empowerment to Discover fell. That is certainly. You can find many more resources today about that than ever befall and i also say that if you break it down to end this moment. What's my purpose in this moment. Because my need in this moment it just makes it so much easier. And if i just saw inconvenient minimum which is really a lovely place and then on to the next mom and shook theories of known and hope please within all of that a lot of pleasure in good field. That is so good and so to wrap up our time. What i wanna do is talk about the coaches and guides for those of us. That may not be exactly clear on the process. You have you have on your website. You have a process. The people can contact you and forever. So brief encounters think even called them quickies. That's called the quickie a lovely texting option. Yes it is and The other thing about working with me when people contract they tell me how much time they want by a block of time and tell me how much money they want. I don't tell down with a knee. They tell me what need and so at the perez skinny. I precision the person as their own experts. Which is really different so have to wanna take a little personal responsibility to do Do you offer do offer any kind of any kind of survey or assessment centers so they can help identify what they need. Because that's a very difficult question. Sometimes now they don't really need to know what they need to know how much time they want for their russians so literally. You buy a path of time. They reach out to me for my first session. I by twenty one. May i reach the person we have twenty minutes for the next session. They get to ask them for playing for the next session. Homage time might need imaging. I'm not going to tell me what you. But i'm so happy to accommodate whatever this evening and therein lies take personal responsibility and the beginning the process of tractable soft which is so night. It's great now. no. I'm going to have your your website. Where they were interested. People can get in touch with you through your website. And and i will have the url but just for on the air. What is the A dress jamie that they can get you at. Www dot j. m. i. e. cash elliara ner.com so jaime lerner dot com and they will be it will be folks will be on the show notes and so you can just there'll be a link and you can just tap into get a hold of jamie and i really encourage you to do. So she's She's a masterful coach and and she will uses what she calls. Integrative approach of life and self learning jaime lerner. what a treasure. Thank you so much for spending time with me today. Uncle how much for inviting my pleasure. And i want everyone to know as i said that your website address will be posted on the show notes. One thank all our listeners for tuning into the next chapter with charlie end until next. This is charlie hedges signing off by now.
Romanticism - Alternatives?
"Welcome to nighttime conversations with Stephen Freya. UNSCRIPTED and rehearsed. I'm Steve mcelwain and I'm with freemen. In a previous podcast we talked about romanticism. What is it in a is detrimental to our understandings and expectations of love and relationships tonight, free I address, and now what if Romanticism is problematic and what can we do to nurture our love and our relationships? So before we get into this juicy conversation to do a brief recap of what Romanticism looks like the beliefs that are romanticism. The context that like to do about this is that understanding that listeners to this program will not be a stereotype they're not going to be saying yes. Yes I ticked off all boxes. That's exactly what I am is likely. They'll embrace some of these thoughts to some degree and less to other degrees. So I just want to recap them to let people know what I'm talking about when I'm speaking about Romanticism. So in the textbook example of Romanticism, they have the following thoughts the belief in the soul mate the one person who is met for me who just completes my life? It makes it awesome. The belief in that special feeling when I'm feeling a special feeling, it's huge. It means something big at means I must act upon it. the belief that. Our feelings our emotions are only true guide that this is true love that we shouldn't be talking about all this unromantic stuff lake practical matters like the ability to pay bills and and do cohabitate well, and what the Division of Labor is and forgettable that stuff. That's true. Love conquers all. It's the belief that we know each other through. We don't need to talk about it. You would just know if you loved me you know. And Sexual Awesome of course, when you're in love when you meet your soulmate sex will be better than anything else the entire world and you'll fulfill each other's needs. All your needs through this one person will be complete. You'll form an exclusive pair bond and that exclusivity is. Sexual and emotional exclusivity that one person is GonNa meet you on all those levels you'll have happily together forever. That's the ball of wax that romance doesn't has has told us. That's a pretty big ball young. Expectations. Of experts. It's Likely when people are listening to this program, they realized I believe in some of that but. The whole thing about knowing each other intuitively that's ridiculous. Accepted I understand that is most of us are not going to embrace every single belief hard core but there elements of this and if we're not aware of it with were not aware of these elements, we might be enacting them and embodying them without even realizing it until somebody pointed out and says, you realise you've SPEC to know what you're feeling without. You actually telling me I know you need to tell me. That's right. There's a there's a spectrum, and then there's also the stuff that's lying there kind of unconsciously. They're logically if you were to have a conversation with your therapist or with your friends, you'd say, no, of course, I don't believe that doesn't make any sense at of course I believe that we should have our own interests and we should have own lives. But what happens is is when you're really put to the test when you're really triggered by your partner or you know they hit that one nerve you kind of revert to the worse. Worse side of Romanticism in the most in your most extreme version of it. So the point, the point is we got to be aware of that and be aware like when you get upset when start to have these thoughts. So we can start feelings in these. Concepts of disillusion not concepts with the feelings of disillusion with your partner Look a little bit deeper and ask yourself. Where are these feelings coming from? Is it really that I need them to do Xyz. Or am I having some kind of belief that may not be a useful belief. Is this a good time to talk about trauma a little bit? Because you would like to your the theme of Trauma. It affects us throughout our entire lives and most people don't make the connection between trauma and how it affects their life. So the real wonderful person who can talk about this Anita. There's lots of videos on YouTube. It is a guy called. Gabor Mezei. Last last name is M. A. T. E. HE's all over Youtube. So if you just google or search on Youtube for Gourmet Trauma, you'll get a lot of really good material but here's his his talks in a nutshell and that is that Sometime in our early life very likely something happened, and usually it's a number of things of how some thing happened that caused the infant mind or the young child mind to react in a way that forms a number of beliefs or assumptions or ways of understanding of how things are. And later on in life, the trauma is not the event. The trauma is how the mind reacted to this in a way that later causes you to have a diminished or restricted life. And? An example that might be a if a child simply doesn't have the confidence or the belief that no matter what happens I can always go to my parents and tell them what happened. I have their support I know they will support me if the child doesn't believe that that results in a form of trauma because the child then knows. I'm on my own I really can't go to mom and dad when I'm in trouble, I have to figure this out on my elder and maybe talked to a school friend or may be keeping myself and that results in in trauma that can be life long lasting. And that stuff last with us on subconscious mind it last with us well into adulthood until we tend it and typically we don't realize it. We don't even know that we have it and we never tended and it affects her life making us act in certain ways and making us react in certain ways. So somebody says something and I react it's not the reaction of a thinking calculating evaluating adult. It's Steve as that three year old child who's feeling I'm I'm worthless nobody wants me nobody's paying attention and nobody likes me and that's the reaction. That's the hurt that is felt and the reaction that is in line with that. That's the automatic reaction that happens in life and that can. Go ahead. So tell me how that relates to. Romanticism and the way that people project that kind of thing onto their partners against a an interesting topic in the Ester Parole Group facebook group is the the concept of a catchment styles and the preferred attachment style is secure attached. So the theory is that as a child, the child will form attachments with the parents and they will form A. Certain kind of attachment either secure knowing that they can run away and play and have fun and mom and dad are going to be there when I get back. So don't worry about it life a safe like it's fun and if I get hurt I come back a mom and Dad I've got support that's a secure catcher model an anxious attachment model says. I'm kind of scared worried because the world might not be safe place and I'm not sure that mom and dad are going to be there for me when I need them. So that isn't done cautiously but that was patterns are formed on a subconscious, a deeper level as a very young child and can manifest in a romantic relationship for example, seeking the one person, the one person who will never abandon me who love me no matter what cool except me and every single form that no matter what I say or do they will just love me unconditionally they'll always be there for me and non literally me that is a manifestation of that childhood wounded looking for that compensation where I didn't get this as a child and I'm afraid of not having this of being alone afraid of being abandoned slow I want in order to. To to to tend to this in a way is I want to find that soul mate who will compensate for all these things that I'm feeling all these anxieties and feeling, they're going to be the one who's GonNa be able to cure that. Though. What's so what's in your opinion the problem with wanting your partner to ease your? Let's call it. Loneliness and and to make you feel like to make you feel secure and to want that secure feeling from your partner. What's wrong with that and and I can speak to that because I was that guy from most of my life is I. I grew up feeling lonely disconnected of not having many friends not having close relationships and not having anybody that was a real close deep buddy. Not. My parents because and I didn't know I didn't make the connection when I was younger is obviously couldn't go to parents when I need help. I couldn't confide with them. I could sit at the table, Danza Dad I need your advice on something that was just preposterous that idea. So that extended to all my relationships. And the weight showed up in my romantic relationship is one I got married. I will still guy looking to the wife the woman to cure me of my loneliness. At, put a real huge burden on her to be the healer of Steve his wounds. And the sad fact is that there's nothing that she or any other woman could do in order to heal stays wounds because my problems were internal to me. The. Desire is wishing for someone who could show up in my life and helium and make me feel not lonely. That's the desire. That's the way the the mind believes but the reality is even when I was married I will still only even I was in bed with my wife I will still lonely even a crowded party I will still only. But I bet that when you first met her when new I fell in love with her, you didn't feel you. She eased that and now the two of you together. Yeah. You're loved and you're loved in the way that you wanted to be loved. So that was gonNA last. In the and when it when it didn't last, she must have been doing something, wrong yes. Yes. So the belief is it feels really great now while this woman is Tang attention, be I feel great in her presence? And what I didn't make the connection to his one were a part I feel crabby. But when we're together, I feel great. So the mind without rationally thinking. So the mind conclude well, obviously being together with her is what cures me of this feeling it's great get more of it together with her. She's yes she's the source. She's the answer. She's the from lawyers. Of course I want to be with her, and of course, I want to be with her forever because I want WanNa be lonely again and being apart from her makes me lonely. subs. Lenin. Subtext Stevens long before he met her. So it's not just because my way from her I'm feeling lonely. It's well with you're not with a woman you're lonely. So back to you go ahead. So what I'm getting is that A. A healthier way to look at yourself. Or to take stock or to not sort of buy into these harmful romantic ideas is to. Look. If you whether you're single or whatever with a partner completely separate from the other person because I think when you've been with somebody for a long time, it's really hard to separate yourself from them and take stock of yourself as an individual instead of yourself as an attached individual. To, look at yourself and take serious stock. How good do I feel in my life Yup and do I feel lonely? Am I looking for somebody to ease that? Anxiety and if you are. You're still going to be there as the lonely anxious person wants the blush of love and Romance Fades. Gel and you will likely find disappointment in your partner when it starts to cool down just a little bit. And if you can tend to yourself and actually I can't remember the full list I'm. Right now off Mike at the on my head but If you Google, the human givens theory. There will be a wikipedia what are the human givens and it lists a bunch of things which are essential for a a self actualized humid. Some of them are things like Status in society like you have to have a place in society or feel like you have a place somewhere there needs to be one person in your life that loves you and accepts you. Really Warts and all that person doesn't have to be your partner. But there should be one person in your life There's a family environment authors finding. There's giving back to the this whole. This whole list of things there's privacy is well like some sort of privacy and some sort of safety so. Go through that list. Whether your partner to whether you're single. And yourself do I have these things and if you don't. Your partners not gonNa give them to you. You need to provide these for yourself and sort of create a life around you. That fulfils you and that way you're actually bringing something to the table with your partner. Yeah, you're you're being there to join them in this sort of co creative journey together versus you being this gaping hole. And saying to them filming, please because hurt. and. I would say that's a healthier way to think into into be. Yeah. I'm not familiar with the list but the concept makes sense to be made substance sense to me. The way I look at any relationship is what do I bring to the table and that's not in the form of exchange what value do I add? A saw I think I need to get something from his girl or this guy, and I'm trying to get something from him. I'm just thinking of what value do I add to this relation to this connection. And if the value is zip where I might give gifts, are might get some some trips. That's that's my values is I I'm thinking. That's more of a transactional is more of an exchange rising than Being happy person happy fulfilled attempts before I joined relationship and instead of trying to get through the relationship. So I brought up the him and gibbons. To Rope to remind myself and. Here the emotional needs. Okay. You need security security, a safe territory and environment that allows you to develop fully. Attention to give and receive, which is a form of nutrition. So you don't just need to get attention you need to give attention. you need a sense of autonomy and control having volition to make responsible choices. You need emotional intimacy to know that there's at least one other person who accepts you totally for who you are. You have to feel part of a wider community and I think this can be difficult especially with a lot of people who find it easy of I'm an introvert I find it really easy to hold up. In my little space you know I work from home. So, it's easy to be isolated A. so you do have to feel part of a wider community privacy. Sense of status within social groupings. A sense of competence and achievement and meaning and purpose. So these are the human givens, and if some of these things are missing your life and you may to give them to yourself before before starting to look critically at a partner for not being a good partner. Also, like you mentioned, I can see them in a couple of different perspectives. For example, the concept of security. Is If a person is carrying trauma from their younger childhood. Their concept of what is security would be radically different than a person who's happily well adjusted perfectly happy as a single person what they need security. Yeah. So that that one word security can mean different things to the observer's mind. So different things and it can also be cultivated through if you have a lot of trauma and everything is triggering your sense of un-safety than if you do some personal work in therapy, you can learn to cultivate your own sense of safety. And have a tool set which is going to regulate your nervous system and get you back into that space and safety again. Yes I think that has truths on multiple levels. One is I? AM traumatized I feel really uncomfortable in a crowd or I feel really uncomfortable unless with a partner I feel uncomfortable as a single. There's that as a security or I need somebody to me. I need to feel loved on without that I don't feel secure. There's that little security versus being able to develop much of our old security internal and going I'm okay. I. Don't need much from another I'm perfectly fine I'm feeling good. I I'm an adult. I can take care of myself but yet I still enjoy other people's company, right? What one of the things that really sticks out to me is the sort of social aspect because the sense of status within social groupings in the sense of competence and achievement I think a lot of time in North America we equate that with having a lot of money and showing it off through ar objects in our house and through other people thinking Oh, look at him. He's done a good job at his work. And I don't think that's what it means. I think it means actually developing social relationships. And having groups of people in which you can navigate and interact with and be a part of. and. It's not really the whole the whole lake showing a sense of status through wealth I would agree with him. Yeah. And from what I gather. Adult friendships. and. Relationships big problem. A lot of people are missing it. A lot of people are really missing out and feeling like how am I supposed to make friends as an adult? I've moved I didn't grow up here I don't have my childhood friends and I have nobody to hang out with sites I, the people at work or maybe I don't see anybody orcas I worked virtually or I work in cubicle or something and I go home and that's it. That's it. Yep. Loneliness is one of the number one pain points of North American cable. And you cannot fix loneliness by finding your one true love right. Jif, mixes. You'd that maybe you can. It feels awesome temporarily well than you really are energies. While this girl just can't get enough of her I just want to spend my time with her. Except that new relationship energy doesn't last forever, and then the loneliness shows its head again because it's always been there it's just been temporarily numbed by having this wonderful new person in your life for your attention is on her rather than my own loneliness. Right. So. So As a not lonely person. Steve What are some things that may? Ease that. What are some good tips for adults to actually get out there into the community to meet other people not online, real people real looking at people's faces and having conversations and maybe even touching non-sexually or sexually doesn't matter but. This might sound weird too many people is When I was forty eight, just getting out of my second long-term relationship I. I took a long hard look my life and realized that I am lonely desperately lonely because all I had was my wife my high paying job and the Big House End Elza. Doubt that was it I didn't have a social network. I didn't have friends I. I wasn't even close to my biological family. That's it. I had big money coming in big house and his wife that was a thousand life. And once I realized I WANNA change that that I am lonely, I want to change that. I had to figure out what could I do in order to tend to my loneliness and the Athar seems almost laughably simple in that is stopping lonely stopping a herman start connecting with others. It. So did you do like meet up dot com or what did you do to meet playful that day on I realized that this is who I am. I decided I'm going to change that day. It was something as trivial as when I was walking to my super mailbox to pick my meals guy doing his lawn and I thought what a wonderful lawn. So I stopped and chatted with him said, Dude you've got an awesome lawn. How do you do it? We ended up total stranger. I just moved into the neighborhood. We ended talking for twenty minutes about his wonderful on and I was there I was present listening to what you're saying and appreciate what he's talking about and somehow sense does that here's this guy who's what you like my lawn and he's he's interest what I'm talking about. I, connected with a total stranger just because I made the choice of I'm going to connect with people. It's it's funny that you say that because I think I actually have a name for that or word for it it within myself I I call it a switch that you either turn on or turn off and sometimes when I realize that I've been going around and I've been kind of moving through the world with my switch off which means I am energetically enclosed in this bubble where I don't let any other people in I don't interact with people kind of invisible and there's no connection than like you know what? I'm not being very sociable and not being very friendly and I haven't interacted with anybody so I turn the switch. On and what that means is that my energy available to connect with others than I. If nobody connects with me, I intentionally connect with others and that means if I'm walking down the street and I see somebody out with their dog. I'll make a comment. On the dog or something, and I'll just comment and all engage other people over and over and over again and I'll end up having these long conversations in meeting them and they. Will connect you want him again or will end up exchanging business cards or I'll get invited to something and. I noticed that people don't seem to do that very much in the cities when I go to the small towns. People Kinda wave, and they're eager to Chit Chat. And in the city's everybody's like power walking by not looking at each other. That having some more crowded environments is their masks on people seeking more privacy. But. But you know what? Though if you're lonely and you WANNA connect and you're saying I can't meet people because I hear all the time I can't meet people. Turn on your switch and intentionally engage in conversation even if it's uncomfortable. And another thing is look for things to do that our group activities no matter how weird they are so. When I lived in Germany I started a joint dancing group and a couple times a week we would get together at the public we would all dance like Irish set dancing and we'd hang out at the pub afterwards. And here in Canada I am I didn't like the group. So I ended up meeting people through cycling groups fresh like open water swimming groups. mushroom hunting identification like these people just kind of get together. They're really nice. The gopher hikes all over the place. Enemy mazing people drum circles. That's my thing Yup Yup. Yup. There's old is a great place in Burlington. is a sort of gathering place for really cool activities and everybody cool. Holds sees events that. Started this place and there was a solstice gathering where I went to. was pretty much in tears. The whole night because all of these strangers was just we're just so wonderful and loving and connected doubt it felt very one. So. There's Suffolk there but you have to make the effort to do it. Nobody's going to beat down your door and say, please be my friend. Please come out the door and be our friends. You have to open the door yourself and go out. Yup. On before I, add to that for listeners meet up dot com is a good resource. It's free ended up. It's a website where you go and you you create an account free account and it us you a bunch of questions of what your interests are and then it informs you. And I think also enter your postal zip code. It informs you of meet up groups in your area that fulfil your interests. It is good and I I found though. That facebook groups actually have been giving me more resources. For meeting people. So I have used a lot and I'm finding face groups to be a better resource now then meet up. With come. Back to Romanticism. Full Circle let's get back to it. Let's come on back to. Yeah. So Yeah Let's talk about Romanticism. and. The alternatives to Romanticism and extensions from Romanticism. So. We are not vilifying romances were not saying, don't do it. We're not saying it's bad. It's evil. Let's talk about how we can start from a position at might encompass a number romantic beliefs and number romantic Tennessee's and how we can extend from that in order to have a more happy life a more gratifying experience with others. And I also like to start before we get into long-term relationship and that is a a person is either between relationships freshly divorced nearly divorced or single, and they might embrace romanticism and they're out there looking. So. I'm a single person and they're. Looking for my soulmate looking for that person to complete me. What I? What would I say to them? What would you do? What are your thoughts on the topic? My thoughts on the topic are. I would say to the. I would say listen to our other phone call. And also listened to. A let how do you pronounce his name? Is it Elaine de Button to Elaine? Elaine depot tone. L. A. N. D. E. B., O. T. T. O. N.. Listen to his stuff on love and it doesn't mean you have to embrace what anybody says wholeheartedly but. If you can consider alternative perspectives. You can put all of the perspectives together and choose what works for you, and the only reason that R- even having this conversation is because Romanticism is working out for people. So my attitude is enjoy all of the great things that there are to enjoy about it because especially when you're in the throes of in the throes of new Romance Romantic thinking and Romanticism and you're feeling all the really good feelings. It feels incredible. It's ecstatic in your body. It's ecstatic in your mind and I wouldn't give that up. I felt it many times and. It feels great but if it feels great and you can just keep an awareness in your mind that I'm drugged. I'm crazy right now and I'm I'm dragged I'm not thinking straight and having these feelings and they're wonderful. But I know that at some point, it's GonNa come back to normal and I need to have some clear thinking. And give myself time to get to know this person and if I want to move in with this person. If you may not want to cohabitate. But if I WANNA cohabitate with this person, do not ignore the practicalities of living together. Don't ignore the practicalities of relationship preferences just because you love somebody that was one of my mistakes is that I thought that because I loved somebody. So intensely and I love really intensely. Overwhelming love. Because I love them. It's going to work. because. I love the Mike and Sacrifice maybe stuff that I held very dear to myself because. Because my love is so much stronger than what though what my needs we used to be. Before the love fulfilled me. and. It doesn't really work that way because eventually it might be one year it might be five years maybe seven years. WHO YOU ARE COMES BACK And when who you are comes back the more that you compromise yourself and what you really believe in and the older we get the more strongly, we have beliefs like the stuff that I believe in right now and the stuff who I am at heart I'm what I really value in a relationship is much much different than it was when I first got married at nineteen years old. So when I entered my first relationship, it's seventeen years old I met my husband. I didn't even I didn't really have any ideas except. I guess kind of stuff that had magically gone into my system from what I A kid. And a teenager 'cause I had no experience at now have a lot of experience. I have relationships under my belt I've done a lot of learning and a lot of therapy and have very strong ideas about the kind of life that I wanna live in the kind of relationship. I. Want to be in. So if I the more I, sacrifice what I believe in what I want because true love. is so strong and that's going to overcome all the harder. That's GONNA. Come to bite me in the butt later on. KEEP IT in mind? Yeah. I'd like to detail that a bit more and that is my thought on that is. in romantic. Love. And the objective is to get the object of our love to get the I. Know we love we wanted them to like us back and we want a relationship with him with the we want them to feel good about us were feeling about them. We want this work and in doing so we might unwittingly sacrifice parts of authentic self in order to be more malleable and to be more getting along with them. Fair. Oh, I become super agreeable when I'm in love I'm so agreeable. Unlike not even meet the real needs super opinionated and really stubborn like I'm of superstar a very strongly opinionated I'd like what like and I want what I want. But to me, it's in love is very accommodate. Agreeable. So that serves a purpose. It helps to make their relationship, bind a lot quicker and get the people to like each other a lot more. It. Energy Oh my God this freshest. So perfect. Whatever I'd like she's into whatever I don't she's not she just easy to get along with isn't she? adorable? Oh, man I just be with her all day long and forever for the rest of my life and. Dairy. Agreeable. I'm not interacting with the real friend. No No. Not at all and people don't do this maliciously they don't do this intentionally they're just putting their best foot forward and. Being on their best behavior because they want things to work out in the best of intentions. And the downside of this is that we we don't know but we're actually starting a relationship on false premises. I. That's where you know. You know when you hear talk out there on the Internet world in the relationship world. That's what being inauthentic. And there's nothing and it's not even unintentional at happens unconsciously particularly I think when your trauma response is for example fawning. Like of you if you go into the What is the four fs? There's freeze fight, Fawn, and flight. and. My trauma responses are to freeze and to Fawn. And so. I'm very good fauner and it's very easy for me to be super agreeable very accommodating a wonderful person to be around. My my partner always used to say she treats me like a king. He can say that much like six years. So, imagine a guy who is unaware of his trauma in his trump is that he more than anything wants to be loved he's got he grew up without the attention of his parents maybe they were too busy something as subtle as being really busy career driven people not being present for him. So this guy grows up with that and more than anything he just wants to connect deeply with the woman he wants to get doored and then he meets Freya. And then he gets all this amazing easiness happening like Oh my gosh is just So complimentary. She's always tell me about how wonderful I am. This isn't sibling lavishing the love on. Yeah. So he would feel awesome in that in that experience. He would feel incredible. When I start to feel a little. DRAINED BECAUSE I can't sustain that forever. Yeah. I can't sustain the fawning forever. I can't sustain that agree ability forever I my opinion start to come back so. When I start to become drained into need more time to myself an ice start to come back to myself and have less entered for him. He feels like I'm taking it away. And that's very, very scary and what you're describing isn't something that would happen just during a new relationship that. During a term relationship where you're not the same woman married in happens over a long period of time and if not intentional. Yeah. So. So the advice what what we're really saying is is aware of what's going on and to keep your head. And you know we're not I, I don't think that most of our most of the people who would be curious about this kind of thing or listening to it are going to be people in their first relationship. They're probably going to have gone to the ringer in at least had a couple of relationships or maybe. Are maybe more mature side and so take your time. Be Aware question everything. And don't be afraid of having uncomfortable conversations. Esther Pearls Books Paroles, and Brunei Brown's content. On on vulnerability and there's two books that I keep on promoting over and over and over again and of in the relationship. Discussion forums they books on Passive Aggression How to overcome passive aggressiveness and Know How to Overcome Passive Aggression and eight keys to eliminating passive aggressiveness are some of the best books that I've read on communication. And they really really help. You have those tough conversations, the ones that you avoid in the ones that Kinda make you feel sick to your stomach as you're having them because they're so scary. But you got to have them. If you want a peaceful life. And the more you have been the more you kind of get reinforced that. Oh I did it I did it and I lived through it. and. Were actually better for it? This is great and then it becomes easier to do the next one easier to do the next. Yep. This is within the context of. A single person who's looking for relationship or desires a relationship someone who would like caveat welcome in in their life the they might be actively looking for it or not, but they welcome that close relationship life. Something that keeps on coming back to my mind is that the more I believe that my solution that my happiness lies externally to me the more I will expect and other personal fulfill that for me. So, and that is a very disempowering disassembling of thinking. It's getting it saying I'm lonely I'm unhappy but I expect someone else some woman is going to be on hold for fixing that because. The she's just to cure me of all those things that that I want and I don't have in that. I'm not feeling good about myself. And you know what Steve On that note Of single person and I'm interrupting you because I know if I don't I'm GonNa Forget it go ahead go ahead. there is something to. So if you're serious about a relationship here, not just having casual sex 'cause there's nothing wrong with casual sex. But if you are serious a relationship, it's actually great to get to know somebody and to kind of take it slow in that regard because. or or at least plan to take it slow. If you've started sex right away because I find it to be very clouding experience. Because I see I think is the sex haze. When you're having great sex with somebody, you're not thinking clearly. At least in the beginning yet your mind is on the sex because it's wonderful it's greatest enjoyable. That's that's focused and it fills your body with these wonderful chemical compounds and it makes you think all the best things Yup and you can turn Eddie Buddy in to a knight in shining armor by having good sex with them. I've done it and. It's really important to either let that phase cool down a little bit so you can get to know who they are. once you've returned to normal or get to know them first before you start inviting that hazing. And I'm very pro sex. So I'm not saying don't have sex I'm not saying or be you know wait because it's good to have sex right away go ahead and jump right in but be mindful that particularly if it's good sex. It will cloud your judgement. And you may want to have some a little more discernment before you make big decisions like living together. There's so many aspects. Thatta. One is that you can have under a relationship that has just purely sexually based in. It's wonderful. You, if that's the that's something that a person welcomes into their life. A wonderful sex part you get together for sex. That's the reason why or together you're both enjoyed the both realize this person really does it for me in bed a lot. But. Spending weekend together enough. The wanted that. Take a vacation, get of not to want to do that but they were great for overnight or that's that's awesome. And if that's okay if that's what you want. Understanding you accept that that you welcome that and it's fine if it happens. But if you're looking for a long-term relationship, a good question to ask yourself is if sex was never on the table for with a person how to feel about them. And that one question is really good for inspiring thought about what else do share what else do we have in common aside from sex? Because that other stuff might end up being the thing that holds a relationship together if the exchanges Bingo and the sex will change, it will not always been you at won't always be exciting like it was the first time it will change and that's a conversation I think that you need to have with each other. Yeah is. What are we going to be in? Who are we going to be when it's not like this anymore and not in a negative way? Not like, Oh, it's. It's you know. Once, you're together for a year or once you get married then it all stops and then it all sucks. No, it's just when this transforms. How am I GONNA? Feel about it how gonNA feel when we're having sex three times a month instead of three times a day. Am I gonNA be okay with that or is that going to get me upset? And if it's like you know Steve a few told me that if you said if You'll see we're dating K. were were in love and it's great and really hot. And were having sex We meet up three times a week, and each of those three times were doing it three times a day we just can't get enough each other and. We're talking about maybe moving in and. We have this conversation. So what about what we're not feeling quite so hot about each other. And What you know I remember let's say I remember my last relationship. We're really only having sex like twice a month. What do you think about that Steve? Young And you may be like, no way like to me twice a month as a sexless marriage or a sexist relationship and I could never tolerate that. And you got to have those kinds of conversations because if you don't, they're gonNA, hit you over the side of the head. and become a misery like this big elephant in the room that you just you can't get because never had those conversations or you didn't come up with solutions beforehand. And I I was let guy is for much my life I believed I will never be in a sexless relationship. that. Just not not who I am my father to buy, and we've gotTa have frequent abundant wonderful sex or else. It's just not worth having and it had to be really good sexy I. Had to be great you had to have it. Often often. Several Times a week. Many times we frequent long and awesome has to be fireworks every time without that I don't want this woman in my life and when you articulate those words doesn't that sound? Strange I'm trying to be non judgmental. Doesn't itself Stranger Geis's look the primary reason you woman the primaries way want you in my life is presents. That's the main reason. So if that's off the table, there's no purpose for you being in my life. Isn't that strange position to be in at least from my mind it seems while it sounds a while to me, but you know what I actually said that. So, with my last long term relationship, I remember when we had our kind of real conversation about like are we? Are we really an item like, are we going to be monogamous date like what are we doing because we were friends for quite a while I like close friends that were attracted to each other But we weren't an idea until. We decided to start being one. And he said I remember he brought up this idea he said well, I don't know because I. think that you're I think you're Paulie. And I insisted I said no, I want a monogamous relationship with you. And I and we talked about what we what we wanted from a relationship. I said that I expected to have a lot of sex and relationship and I can't imagine being in a relationship were there was no sex or with the sex. Was An infrequent or kind of ended that would not work for me. And you know what it has how long it's been seven years since I said that and I can tell you maybe eight years now since I said that. It's not true. I have changed. It doesn't mean I want to live sexless but what it does mean is that I can be in a relationship a deeply loving relationship when there isn't frequent sex going on that I can perfectly happy. At, just to put this in context of our listeners, as you're not an old woman, you're fairly young woman who it has this might set who says you know as much as I love sex it's not the main thing in my life anymore. I love sex so much that I made it my career. What A. Long time ago when I was kind of I had I had two jobs. One job was a therapeutic massage therapist and the other one was exploring the sort of tantric world and the sexuality, the two separate things and I was sitting on the fence between the two of them and I ask myself, what would I do all day every day if I wasn't getting paid for it and the answer was to talk about sex, and so I I went full in and I made it my career to work with sexuality. And since then I've been working exclusively with sexuality now and so I really love sex. In all of its contexts I find it endlessly fascinating and everything about it fascinating and for me I, I even surprised myself to say that. I can actually d without sex and be happy. Do I want to be no. I would love to have plenty and abundant. Fantastic. Wonderful Sex. But it doesn't mean I have to habit constantly and feel okay in my life. That's big difference the needing it in order to feel. Okay. So putting this in the context of somebody who is looking towards a relationship. The. The important thing is to have self awareness of what do various aspects. Of Life you how important are they? How would you want them to look and to be able to communicate that to other? To the person, who's your prospective partner? is to say, yeah, to people want sex, it's important to each other I. think that would be valuable to be able to say to each other is really important to me I. Just want you to know that it's really important to me if I, don't have sex every day than I get grumpy. How does that work for you? What do you think of that? And if the other goes all no, no. No, that's not what I meant to. Then that's a really good thing to know way up front before you start becoming a couple of rather than discovering that accidentally two years into the relationship. And it's really important to have that because if you are. Going to be like that and get grumpy if you are not of depositing your sperm every day in to. The person beside you. If you're giving grumpy, you're going to start getting resentful and becoming generally passive aggressive. Some people get aggressive aggressive, but usually it's passive aggressive and that passive aggression. Is. The opposite of making you attractive to your partner. So it kind of. Screws you up even further by making you extremely unattractive annoying and shutting the other person down completely. So again, being authentic and having these interesting conversations and and you know what if? You're somebody to whom sexuality is very important and you need to explore sexuality in your life. And your partner is like that. So have a discussion. So what can you do to? Explore your sexuality whilst maintaining. The boundaries and the rules which are acceptable to that relationship. And not putting your partner on the hook for being everything to you. So maybe that means to you going to classes because there's a lot of really cool and interesting classes and workshops these days. Workshops on how to do fisting or how did he give erotic massage or do be the same way that? Rope Tying Sherry. There's tons of really cool sexual things that you can do within the sexual subject matter that are not actually having sex with other people. And, that may that may be the way that you you invite your own personal growth like I teach women, how to give erotic massage to men, for example, in a live demonstration workshop and the women I love it. Because I have a good looking guy on the table, they all get in there with their hands and it's you know it's fun lively and exciting, and you know what? They're not doing anything. Wrong. That's that's an interesting point to make and to reemphasize is that. If people want more better sex life it doesn't necessarily mean penis and Vagina. Intercourse. Or more orgasms It can mean more sexual energy and I'm I'm not a guy is the word energy in this brew away that still uncomfortable for me that's just me. But What I mean by that is that The classes that you talked. For example, if if a guy wants more sexual energy in his life attending one of these tantric clauses where there are our men and women in this class being very explicit about talking about sexual experiences and about how to heighten sexual awareness and how to. Enjoy sex more. That is highly sexually charged environment even though there might be no and no adroit sex going on. Sawyer still feeling that sexual energy. And enjoying it because it's it sizzling in its titillating without actually doing sucks. and. It in the Romanticism concept, there's this idea that you should be everything to your partner and you should be enough for them. And that they should be enough for you and I don't even like that word enough I find that word enough to be very grading and. Almost. Insulting. Because it has has nothing to do with it and just because of a person as a curiosity about sexuality. It's not an insult to you like Steve a few if your focus in life was to. Okay say we're Mary Kay and? You were really into your badminton and your cycling and you're swimming. And doing. And, your and your computer programming. And your movies. Okay and and that was like you're really into that stuff and you know you're a Horny gone, you want sex a certain amount of times per week right? and I am the centralist, which is the term that I have given my business on the centralist and I'm just fascinated about every aspect of sexuality I'm curious. Not. WanNa Explore L. wanted developed myself through towers Taoism and Tantrum and all the media stuff WANNA learn how to do. Erotic flogging and all kinds of things and you're just kinda like that stuff is so fucking weird. Like it's so weird. It makes me feel uncomfortable and awkward and like to think of you fisting somebody makes me sick. And I'm like, yeah but I I got to know that stuff. So what does that mean that just means I can take classes I can go to events I can make friends that I can have circles of people that don't include. Steve and Steven I can have conversations so that he can trust me. And it's not that you're not enough for me. It's just that I have this really really. Intensely passionate interest. And it fulfils me to learn more about this kind of thing and to be engaged to talk about sex. I can talk about sex all day long and not get bored of it, and then I can go back and talk about it again the next day. And you know sometimes you just are are tired of hearing about Amos's. And People's. To bring back to the. Romanticism. And so what that means is that in romantic thinking, this would be devastating to you that I want to engage in things that don't include you in that that you're somehow not enough for me. And in what I'm going to call rational thinking. There's nothing wrong with it. It doesn't mean you're not enough for me. Actually, I might appreciate coming back to you with all of this cool new information and bringing tricks into the bedroom. Cool, I feel more empowered. And What do you have to say about that? Yeah that it reflects the theme of having a a soul mate who's my everything? Who satisfies all my desires on spectators there my everything that romantic thought puts a lot of pressure on the other person, but if I can spread that out where. You. And I have a wonderful relationship and we have a number of things we enjoy together. But yet I'm into computer programming you can't relate to that soul. There's another person. There's this other guy that I know he's Osma that we can talk about that sort of thing as our passion. It doesn't have to be you. It doesn't have to be that. You need to tick off every single box in order for me to feel good about you. So that's just one aspect of romantic thinking of is that you must be as my partner you must be my everything, you must satisfy all my needs. Versus being able to loosen that up somehow is saying that we have some things in common. We have enough in common to consider us a couple, but we don't have everything that I want and it's okay to not have everything I want in one person. I actually think it makes it more interesting when you have your own life. So, if you do things that don't include me, then we have something interesting to talk about. Nukes yeah and I also I'd like to have my own life. I like to have my own friends I'd like to have conversations but don't include the person that I live with. That's important to me. It makes me feel like I'm still myself instead of like I've been absorbed into this unit. And for me, it's really important not to be absorbed into a unit until those who I am. So. one of the things that I would like to talk about in another phone call because it's a lot more engaged than what we have time for today. But that really intense. Passionate lovely butterfly feeling first of all the butterfly feeling. The butterflies are actually anxiety. But it seemed through that filter or that Lens of love. So it's considered a positive thing instead of a negative thing. So when the butterflies go away but actually just means you're no longer anxious when you're when you're seeing your partner not and that's a pretty good thing but. If you want to experience some of the intense passionate feelings. When you look at them, you can cultivate that intentionally through the use of various an hypnosis tricks and these are just kind of romantic and sexual tips and tricks that. You can use to make it hotter. I don't think that you. Should have to but there's that the should word the should word is not really a good word but. But if you're missing them and you want to, it can be done. It's not like because you lost your infatuation or you lost that. Zing of attraction or that spark when you look at your partner that it's impossible to ever come back you just have to learn how to look that way again. and that's a skill. It's not magic. It's actually a skill. And a choice that you're gonNA make. What I think you're touching upon his the second half of this discussion in that is the couples have been long together who feel that things aren't where I want to be what do we do about it? Nestle before we get into their let's wrap up. This. This first half about meeting someone else finding someone else some of the thoughts WanNa mention about is is I find that? speaking for myself. and. My observations of life is the more I needed from other people. A was an indication of how my traumas and how unsettled I was within myself. The more I could heal my traumas the happier I became as an individual the length needy I became of trying to get the things that I wanted from someone else needing a woman's adoration needing a woman's approval need to get sex from this specific woman it's gotTa be you. You've got to be in love with me because I've got that special feeling about you. A found that the more I could heal what's inside me the less became needy of others and the more I had to bring to the table Art. Arguably. Just by being a person that is pleasant to be around. The thing with the not being needy is when you don't need the other person like when you first start dating them or your I interested in them and you and you're really really into them, you think God i. This person's incredible. When you have less need and you can see a little bit more clearly it gives you the chance to defy whether or not. There are red flags or very unhealthy patterns of the other person. Because when you're on of enthralled. You can be blind to those red flags until it's too late and by too late I mean you've invested so much of yourself in the relationship that it's difficult to say. Oh. Oh. Hold on a second mister living unhealthy and really unpleasant. No but it's easy to say, no when before you've gotten to that point. And you have to be able to identify the Red Flags I. So so yet I I'm agreeing with you and you're not neediness and I think it's okay to want things from a relationship. It's just better when you don't need them to feel. Okay. The way that I would were that I agree with the sentiment the way I would wear that as it's fine totally fine to have your preferences it is totally normalcy. I like this Alexa like this alleged that toting. It's also totally fine to say I welcome this my life. Totally. Cool. Where I get into problems for where would get into problems is if I pick a specific person and I say you're on the hook for satisfying these things Because now dating, and this is what I want this what I expect so you've got to accommodate me. The the thing I would recommend his before. WE START GETTING A to involved with the person saying you are a pair bond with me. You're a couple with me is instead of trying to get someone that you have a special feeling for is to. Think about what it is you want and how well this person naturally fits in with what it is you like. So if you love spending time outdoors. So free I know that about you you like spending time with doors you'll like being in the sun it would make sense to have somebody who hopefully shares that as well. Personally being doors as opposed to and I hate being outside, I can't stand it. That's that's the problem is if you're going to spend a lot of time with somebody and you know that something you enjoy a lot is something they descend on, it's going to be a problem well, well, if if time is love language. Quality Time isn't actually one of my bigger love languages so I'm okay with that. Yes Languages. That's another good. You know what acts of services so he's gotTa do garden work for me. Hauling heavy shit around. So never mind. So before we get into the love language is yeah, it's I. Think it's a really good idea before we get deeply emotionally invested in somebody is to actually think what is it a wanted person in my fine just being friends and my fine having a casual relationship am I fine lovingest person but not living with them not being pair bond what am I fine with versus what what am I trying to get? But? What am I fine with? So what if your intention is actually to live to do a domestic living situation? You're like you know what I am looking for somebody who can live with me in a house in the country? who wants to have this type of lifestyle I want dual income I WANNA make sure he's making as much as I am or more and Blah Blah like those are preferences which are perfectly reasonable to have just just the Earth if you want those preferences and. I don't think that's a problem. The best situation is to find someone who naturally fits into that situation naturally fits offals boxing where you're going through a list of I want this on like this is the kind of stuff a. Long My list and you start comparing you realize well, there's a really good match here. We really do synchronize a whole bunch of things that we have a lot in common. That is a much preferred thing rather than Osha. So Pretty Mad I. Want her I just really liked this girl and I want things work out and I'm so in love with her and I want her to be in love with me and. I'm not into that thing but. I like my stakes, but she's a Vegan that that's okay. I could do some Vegan cooking. You know I'm okay with few vegan meals. Rather than sacrificing our authentic to get what we think we want, which could be typically based on looks and physical attraction, and it doesn't necessarily mean the beautiful person. It could mean, I'm attracted to this person because they reminded somebody from my early childhood and that's in my subconscious and I just feel attracted to them on that basis it could be that that frequently. What you're saying is to take into consideration the kind of life that you want to have versus just the highly charged sexual erotic romantic feelings that you have. Bingo because one thing. You know you can make a great life together and be very happy long term if you're not expecting that romantic feeling to last which which doesn't. but you can't always make good life together. Just from those romantic feelings. I tried if I tried very hard. So before people get together as pair on, it's really useful to not be that strict romantic where he believe that my special feeling that is the only goal that matters is that I have a special feeling for her and because of that that we should be together as a couple and that's the natural next step. I saw. Yeah, I believe that's really harmful that belief is because we're deliberately ignoring all sorts of practical issues that will be there. They will definitely be there after that new relationship energy fades will have to face eventually and. It might be seven years interrelationship where the great sex's now routine and regular happens once week on a Saturday night. And we're going men. We don't have much in common in the sex is dismal. What do we have going for us? then. That becomes a serious prompting in his all what you primarily had going for. He was the great sex. And now that when somebody has good sex and it becomes. Dismal. I honestly have to ask them why Because usually it's become dismal because they've stopped participating. and. I will share my opinions on that during our second half of the conversation the part about being. I I really do want to get to being a couple though because. One of the biggest things I think is to get the fuck over it. Stop being such a baby in thinking it has to be the way it was very beginning because the sooner that you can get to the acceptance the like. Once you've accepted it and I use this use this metaphor, this analogy. Often now because I really like it if you live in, Canada, you have to accept that you're gonNA have winter and you're GONNA pay taxes. If. You're a long term relationship. You have to accept that the romantic phase the hot phases gonNA. fizzle down and become neutral again, and you're going to be you in your partner's going to be your partner. When you get to the point where you can accept that instead of resenting it instead of resenting that is not the incredible amazing exciting thing that it was for that period of time. Now, you can get to the real work. and. There's a ton of resources like this phone call is not going to be the phone call where it gives you all the tips, tricks and resources on on how to have super hot long-term relationship. But the biggest piece of advice that I would have get to that point where you can accept it. And once you're no longer like yourself or being angry or being resentful to the other person. Now, you can get to work and and really really make something of the relationship. And whether your goals are you know you've gotta have kind of joint goals here and he both gotta be on board the goals may be, Hey, let's have a more home armonia relationship or less have a better life together or they might be Let's improve our communication or let's have more interesting sex. More satisfying sex. Whatever, that means depending on what your problems are. It might be to have more frequent sex or might be have more pleasurable sex 'cause those are all really really different. Because, sometimes, the hottest sex is not actually the most pleasurable. And the most pleasurable and ecstatic sex can look from the outside very boring. Like I've had those kindle Delaney experiences where kind of become the universe And it didn't look like much happening on the outside but on the inside, it was the most profound experience, my entire life. and. That looks kind of boring. There was no moaning and screaming and throwing me against the wall and and fireworks it was just. Very slow. It did not look like fifty shades of gray. No. It should not. So I also think that the better your sexes. The less. Fixated you are on how it looks. And the better it feels the less caught up you are in how frequent it is. And the performance aspect of it could you talk? Of, you mentioned various aspects of sex and. I'll I'm trying to grasp onto them. So you talked about how it looks or a great sex or frequent sex were those various dimensions of could you talk more both? So How sex looks okay. So let's just take what somebody might call. Somebody might call hot sex and you know you see the sort of. Passionate making out there's a lot of movement maybe there's some sort of like. Groping underneath the clothes or one of the person when the pushed up against the wall. Some involved like the kind of Hollywood sex can't keep my hands off you kind later you're kind of like being thrown against the coach and then against the wall and like against the counter and you're kind of moving around rates, it's all very passionate sense of urgency Yep. Yeah and That's really hot and fun and exciting and satisfying thrilling and a Lotta Times it's really fun to do that particularly when you have a new partner or if you're having an affair or you've met up after not seeing each other for a while it's very passionate high energy urgency. Sometimes. I'm GonNa, say compared to other sex it doesn't feel as good. As generally speaking the more frantic the movement is and the grocer by grocer I mean bigger k. up gross like discussing but the grocer, the movements are with sexuality. The less unfocused you are in your mind and the less new wants and intense the pleasure can be. And, there's this isn't it? It's just like an end of the spectrum light on like a one end of the spectrum is almost meditated. Barely moving very internally focused extremely intense ecstatic sexuality. And on the other end of the stick is. The high movement forceful, very physical, very raw primal type sexuality. And it's fun to go from one end to the other and to experience both I'm just saying that they're not. They're not the same thing. So when somebody's very caught up in house, something looks and they tend to be a lot of men men usually men, but there's a lot of women like this too but primarily meant they like to watch. And their sex becomes more voyeuristic and less participatory, and it's because they're they're getting off on what they're seeing instead of getting off on what they're feeling. and. So they want this performance from their female partner. Which is fine. It's fun. It's hot. It's it's exciting. But as long as somebody's performing they're not necessarily feeling. So if I'm here being thrown around pushed around I'm screaming and grunting up this. Not. I might not be actually feeling as much as I. Could feel. I get I am and all I'm saying is that Lens. Is what done to is an infinite variety of experiences. You should never be bored sexually if you're bored. then. You're not using your own mind. So this way to subscribe that high energy sort of sexy to me. It reminds me of what porn typically depicts. Yes it's it's high energy The guy might be choking the girl There's there's that strong language Do you like my big dig? Fucker legless that that sort of language is going on others the big visuals there's the six mandatory possession. The thrusting thing. You're the Pistons. Thrusting going on. It's high aggression high activity athleticism. So it is their connection between. What what we see in porn and thinking well, that's hot and people. Possibly, aspiring to that only or believing that's what great sex is like. A lot of people think that is good sex and that's what sex is supposed to look like. So instead of actually tuning into what feels good they tune into what they think it's supposed to look and sound like and they kind of copy it. And they're. And, they're going through the movements and they're going through the sounds, but they're not actually feeling the feels. Because their body's not responding to what they're actually doing. They're just they're acting. So big takeaway from this is if my mind says, what I want is porn star styles sex that is the hottest thing that's what I want what I might not be realizing is that that visually appealing stuff? Doesn't translate to the best feeling stuff no, it doesn't mean don't do it. It can be really fun. But if you want the most powerful orgasms, that's not the recipe for it. If you want the closest connection, the most deep feeling of being in love that's not what it looks like. My correct enough. Yes. Yes. Absolutely and you are as as a male, you're more likely to orgasm from that or to late on from that either sex than the woman is. Yes she she may scream and she made mon.. But it doesn't necessarily mean she's GonNa feel good or have an orgasm rank. From it even though it might look like she's she's very hot and excited A lot of times. The deepest pleasure is not necessarily the most demonstrative when it comes to women. Brace of what you've just said has. Sort of has hit a new sort of vein in my mind and that is. That the thing that we might believe about sex might be misleading us such as a guy married geisel desire for hot sex he might be fixated on what I really want is God. I just want her to do this thing that the porn star did in this movie that would be so hot wouldn't that be great. And visually, it Kinda looks neat if you're just sitting back and watching it on a screen but interacting with another human being, it doesn't translate into the same experience yet. So he's equating his validation. His mail validation with seeing his partner act that way because he thinks if he sees her acting that way that means he's doing first of all, it's going to be hot to him to see it. So Yay, and then secondly it's GonNa mean that he's really doing a good job like she's really satisfying her. Giving it to her good and she's she's so hot. She's so getting off on this. And? If, that's not always the case in and often it's not the case, I. SPEAK TO EVERY BETTY to everybody about their sex. So I and I they tell me the truth and often they lied to their partners but what they're experiencing. And there's a lot of faking going on. Far More faking than you would ever imagine and it's because of the pressure on women. To Act, like they're enjoying it and to act like they're hot because we don't want to seem like we're prudes we don't want to seem like we're boring starfish you. Who like? Aren't getting into it. So we do the things that are going to turn them on and that, and I'm not speaking for myself because I don't fake it. there's the screaming in the writhing around in the panting and the grunting, and all that kind of stuff doesn't mean it feels good. It's just a big joke. Yeah. Yeah. That is. Particularly see that. In the group sex and swinger type crowds because it's it is often all about the show. Really really hot woman putting on the hot hot show because it's sexy and it's fun and exciting in it's validating for her to be that desired sexy lady. Sadly, this is true. the the strange thing in the swinger life in the smear community is that a lot of profiles. Women who are becoming more authentic with who the are will literally say in their profile I will not put on a show for you and these are married women or single women or the husband who fills the profile says the my wife is bisexual, but she will not be putting on a show meaning that we don't WanNa live at the stereotypes anymore. What we're looking for is is a really good sexual experience, and if that means that will pass ninety percent of them because we don't believe it will be great would rather do that than just. Going through the motions again. And so that happens everywhere was people think that I should be this way in order to signal to the other that they're doing a great job to validate them and to signal that I'm enjoying myself I need to do this sort of thing rather than just being authentic but are they really doing a good job the and? Cheering them on for not for not pleasure in you I don't agree with that. For putting on the show rather than to actually enjoying yourself. Yeah. I remember I remember one partner that I had So when I first met him. He had never had. He had never had sex that was not like banging hard for two minutes and then it was over because he's he believed he believed this truly. That was what? His part, his long-term wife and wanted, and he told me, that's what she wanted. That's how she liked it. But he also told me that she'd only come twice with him in their entire twenty two year marriage. I. Was Kinda like Maybe she was having you. Maybe, she was having you banger like that. 'cause you knew it was gonNA, you're gonNA come and it was going to be over with so she didn't tolerate it anymore. But no. So anyway. When he when we started to have sex that was not suitable for me. So I taught him how to make love to me the way that I liked it and. Remember. When he would start to do the things that I'd light I would respond because I was responding to what he was doing it and I'd like to and then he would stop. And then he would do something that I liked again and I would start to like make noise and move because that's what you do and he would stop again and I eventually got annoyed and I said every time I start to feel good you stop touching me as what's up with that I'm actually getting annoyed because I feel like there's no point in even getting into it. He said, well, I, imagine you. You're what he goes. I'm edging you. I said. You mean like on the edge of orgasm edging and he said Yeah I said No. What's happening is that I'm just beginning to feel good and I'm starting to become aroused and because I'm starting to become aroused, my body is starting to move like you know, undulate gyrate and noises are coming into my mouth. I'm encouraging you saying that feels good. Keep going. So when I moved like that and WanNa make a noise keep doing exactly what you're doing and don't stop because if you stop I'm GonNa get pissed off. And he he learned she was a good learner he learned to be phenomenal. But. In his but he had no idea. And he was under all of these like really wild and erroneous sexual beliefs. About himself as a lover and you know what it was because women had always lied to him. It's actually frightfully common and the the Lai the word lied doesn't literally mean I intentionally deceive you it might mean to hurt your feelings. I'm not gonNA say something I usually they don't want to hurt their feelings. Yeah. That's usually what it is is you don't want to hurt their feelings and you kind of want to encourage them. You don't like have them. Sulk. For for two years and say fine I'm. Deborah getting peanut. Again. So So you lie and the thing that doesn't do anybody. Any good. Stop suppling. Let's talk about that specific thing 'cause we're touching upon communications right now about sex gets better when there's good communications people are more willing to have sex when there's a better communications. And this applies to people who I think it's the bulk of the people would want listen to this podcast is people that are in long term relationships who would like to have a better sex life and wondering what can we do to have this better sex life? And I think that this this is actually touching upon it. On the the topic of a how open are we in being able to express How aware are we? How? Where am I of what my interests are could actually sit down at a room on my own and write down? What is it? That great sex would look like to me? What do I believe? What do I think? What would I like? So you're touching you're starting to get into the realm of loads have a whole new you know to our talk. Okay. On on how to have better sex but. The big big city I would say is. Are you even aware of what your own sexual wants needs and preferences are. COMPL- and what you like when, and how you like to feel completely outside of your partner because especially when you're partnered and you're when you're partnered in a monogamous relationship, people tend to not see themselves as an individual they'd see themselves as somebody. And their partner. COUPLE HALF HALF OF A couple of. So when you're thinking about your sexuality as soon as you start to think about a desire or a thing that you all, but no. Oh, oh, but they wouldn't like oh but he would never do that. Oh but his physiology couldn't accommodate that it's sort of like everything that could possibly be erotic shut down right away because you think that may be either your partner can't do it won't do it doesn't do it or one accept it. Most of the cases, this, not even actually true because it's whole areas. How often the to half of the couple. Who Come to see me? We'll say. You know I've been thinking about this or I've always wanted to do this to do this or Blah Blah. Blah, Blah Blah. He would never he would never have any interest or when I was younger, I used to do this really mazing thing and I loved it so much. But I could never do that now because of what my husband would think of me. So then the.