20 Burst results for "Ehrman"
Why Michael Brown Understands Atheists
"When i met at the age of nineteen i have been following jesus than for two and a half years. She was a hardcore atheist. Jewish atheist are mom been married four times. By the time she was eight she concluded there was no god she thought it would be wonderful. If god exists existed this eight years old but concluded that there was no god. So when when i met her she was a really a god. Macher and really thought that that faith like this was just for weak people and to the core of for being. She's a realist. I mean to this day. She is the most realistic person. I know in terms of just call This being honest with re- with reality say and yet god intervened in her life and brought it to himself. He revealed himself In fact the first thing that happened was she realized that personified evil was real and therefore is personified evil. The light went on there is personified. Good and god began to work in her life. But going through this book eric. She helped me a lot because she understands how an atheist thinks and a lot of times. Because there's no such thing as ats That always bothers her because she knows and the court for being what she believed in didn't believe and then many many atheists actually had a very lofty view of god and that god didn't seem to exist that they wanted him to others are intellectual atheists and others are just angry and things like that but there are many that atheists at a disappointment and pain. And i remember when i debated bart ehrman. It'll high state university years back on the problem of suffering. Does the bobble provide an adequate answer to the suffering and i. I was preparing for the debate. And i tell nancy okay. I'm gonna use this argument. Things great gets no is really good because down on. Let me let me tell you what that sounds like. Oh i got it. I see it so she really helps. Sensitize me in writing this. And she has so many times cried herself to sleep at night just with pain and burden for hurting world. That that it's helped me to really wrestle with issues
"ehrman" Discussed on Stuff To Blow Your Mind
"Judaism in the hebrew bible in roman religion. A massive thing. I've been doing this every week. Five five posts. There's a member membership fee to join the blog And the reason there's a membership fee is because i use the blog to raise money for charity The membership fees low. It's about it's about fifty cents a week. I mean it's like the right now we're going to be. We're instituting a new blog soon. We're launching a new blog but but right now a year membership is twenty four dollars ninety five cents and for that you all of these. You'll hundreds and hundreds of plus archives going back eight years so i don't keep any the money myself and not a penny goes to operating expenses and so all of the money goes directly to charities We have raised about nine hundred fifty thousand dollars over the years and that amount is going up. It looks like this year. We're hoping we're going to hit two hundred thousand dollars just for this year people joining the blow and so we also there's an option of like if you just want a one month membership for less try for three months you can do that but just go to the barnum or blog and check it out and and you'll see all the money the jerry's all go to actually they all go to deal right now with the crisis of mainly charities dealing with hunger and homelessness both locally and internationally so i support five five charities and all the money goes out to them bart thank you so much. It's been real pleasure gasping. Great thank you so much all right so that does it But thanks again to bart for for sharing his expertise with us. I really had fun talking to him. and at the end they're just want to remind you yet again. Bart mentioned his blog. If you're interested in the sort of subject matter. His blog is a great place to go. Deep plus as bart mentioned every penny of the subscription money goes to great causes. So you can check that out at erman blog dot org and his spelled e. h. r. m. a. n. so that's e. h. r. m. a. n. blog dot org and again. The book is heaven. And hell history of the afterlife by bart ehrman in the meantime. If you'd like to check out other episodes of stuff to blow your mind you can find us wherever you get your podcast and wherever that happens to be just make sure that you rate review in subscribe. That really helps the show out huge. Thanks as always to our excellent audio producer. Seth nicholas johnson. If you'd like to get in touch with us with feedback on this episode or any other suggested topic for the future or just to say hello you can email us at contact at stuff to blow your mind dot com stuff to blow. Your mind is production of iheartradio for more podcast. Iheartradio iheartradio app apple podcasts. Or wherever you listen to your favorite shows power in the twenty first century who has it. How were the using it and how is it. Impacting our lives. This is the recount. Daily pod were will explore the intersection of power business technology culture and yes politics two. I'm nine and i'm host of the recount daily pod. I've spent decades covering politics and foreign affairs as a white house. Reporter and middle east correspondent traveling everywhere from baton rouge to benghazi each morning on the recount daily pod. I'll bring you a quick rundown of the top headlines and then an in depth interview with decision makers the reporters covering them and experts who break it all down who's actually controlling the narrative. And how is it shifting. We'll connect the dots helping you reframe and rethink the issues that matter. Listen to the recount. Daily pod on the iheartradio app on apple podcasts. Or wherever you get your podcasts from iheartradio the done the definitive twenty four episode podcast series on the producer of flashdance beverly hills cop and top gun the maverick don simpson back in the nineteen eighties. Don's behavior wasn't just tolerated. It was encouraged. The film industry gave gone a long leash for his high class. Call girls his alliance. The vatican connected italian mom the private eye that cleaned up his car. Crashes and illicit firearms schemes. The doctor feel goods on retainer the expense accounts for exotic cars and private jets and ski party. Or jason aspen. Don's black ties. Were an open secret inside. Hollywood and it was don's black market connections that led to his tragic death season. One takes you into the circumstances surrounding don's tragic death and sheds light on the unsavory characters. That may have been complicit. Listen to the dawn on the iheartradio app apple podcasts. Or wherever you get your podcasts..
"ehrman" Discussed on Stuff To Blow Your Mind
"Word for it. Somebody says that you know at my inauguration. There are this number of people there. You've got to check to see if that's true or not and so there. There are certain things that you check for and historians have web checking ancient stuff just as we have ways of checking modern stuff. If you check this historic last richmond. They're very reasons for thinking. Jesus didn't tell the story for one thing. of course. it has a different view of apple iphone. One jesus had that you can't zach. That's the question your argument of circle but there are other things about it. It's all found only luke so there's no one else who tells the story that we know of. And so how do you know. Like inlets verified survey. You just got into the. I'll just cut to the chase because this is going onto one reason for early night. It wasn't wasn't a story. Jesus told is because the story presupposes that a man has already been raised from the dead. The end of the story is if they don't believe moses in the province they won't believe even if a man is raised from the dead that means that the reader the christian reader these are christian agreements are gonna say. Yeah that's right boy. They didn't believe what america got raised on the devil. You got that one right. Yeah well that's because. The storyteller knows that jesus from the dead and is jewish listeners. Most of them are not accepting and so it has marks of being later composition. It also by the way does go inside with luke's understanding of the afterlife. The author of luke his understand the live is different from the understanding. Put that jesus himself apparently had and so they're all of these reasons for the doesn't go back to the historical jesus. This brings up an interesting. Another tangential thought i was wondering about. So when you consider what purpose the gospels were supposed to serve as written documents. Did they serve an originally were. They intended by their authors to have an apologetic purpose like pre as preaching documents to outsiders or do you think of them primarily as things that were ridden four christians who were already convinced to be read and to i don't know further edified them in their faith this is something that's been debated over the years although it's debated too much anymore just about everybody who is an expert on the stuff things. These books were not used for evangelistic purposes. You know this is not the sort of thing like he you enhance hand the gospel of matthew. To somebody say here read this so you can become a christian. Then take a look at you kidding me. No read this get outta here and so So there are all sorts of hints within the books themselves that they're written by christians and four christians to promote christian face having said that One of the secondary uses of these books would surely have been to tell christians what to tell others when they were trying to convert them and so the books themselves would not be tools of conversion or evangelists tools but they would be informing christians of information that they could give to others and one of the reasons that christians needed have some damnation is because they were being opposed in the roman world Most people thought they were nice and christians as no. We're not it's actually we. We have the truth. And i'm i'm going to explain why we have the truth. Will you need you need to have some kind of things to tell people. To show you got the truth of all the four gospels luke. The one we're talking about gives most evidence of having this function of trying to convince outsiders that christianity is a good thing and that it's harmless thing. It's interesting you know. One of the problems of christians had in the early roman empire was that the guy they worship was crucified for crimes against the state he was. He was a state criminal who was executed for it. And so like if that's the guy you're following Now that doesn't look too good in the is that the law and so they had to explain. Well actually. yeah but you know. Pilot didn't wanna do it and the romans were actually jesus. I is damned jews. It made us do it. And so so. They're putting the fault on jews and exonerated romans to show that we're not a threat to roman society and luke does that more than any of the others. That doesn't luke. Also repeatedly mentioned the fact that jesus was innocent. Lick it uses the word innocent. yeah so when. He's on trial before pontius pilot. Luke luke stresses three three times pilot actually declares. Jesus he's innocent. He doesn't deserve this as the jewish leaders force him to cruise vibe and then when he's being crucified in luke scott only loose now. So you have the centurion. His crucified him and in mark's gospel the century and looks up at him and he realizes that. Oh my god. What would we truly. This man was the son of god. But in luke's gospel the same guy's looks at him and then he said he says this man was innocent and so is the son of god. He's in yeah. Yeah but the point is luke is emphasizing. He was innocent and and so. It's not you know everybody. All the romans is is the jewish people didn't recognize so you're mentioning several different strains of thought that are developing after the life of jesus you think the the consensus of biblical scholars today would be jesus. The real historical. Jesus was some type of apocalyptic. Prophet he was preaching the imminent return of god. Who would destroy the enemies of israel. And bring about this kingdom on earth but obviously that changed you talk in the book. About a process of de apocalyptic sizing the christian faith over the following centuries. Can you in brief terms. What does that process. Look like. what what motivates. And how does it happen. Let me live prefaces. By saying you're the first person who's interviewed new could say the apocalypse is students nuts. Talking about the d- apocalyptic cessation of the tradition. So so d- apocalypse is. So if jesus has this apocalyptic view that the clips is coming. And the god's going to wipe out things and it's going to make everything right. The reason one one of the functions of that kind of religious discourse that kind of apocalyptic language was to encourage people who were in the midst of suffering. Because you're telling him look yes. You are suffering. God is on. Your side is these powers of evil. That are lied up against us. But god's on your side and the point of this is that god is soon going to intervene and take out these forces of evil so if you just hold on for a little while it'll be okay. That's why the book of revelation says no he's coming soon and why the apostle paul says need to be alert. Because it's coming soon. It's going to be like a thief in the night and you know if you're not awake you're gonna be rob and so you need to be alert. And why jesus himself said. Truly i tell you. This generation will not pass away before all these things take place. Jesus predicted that his own disciples would see it. And that's the nature of this kind of apocalyptic language and still is by the way people today who believe in the left behind series or who think jesus is coming back then in invariably. Thank you know it's going to be in my lifetime. You know maybe next time sometime next thursday. I don't it's going to be pretty and so that's that's all part of the part of it in early. Christianity there is a very firm belief is going to come back right. It's going to happen right.
"ehrman" Discussed on Stuff To Blow Your Mind
"Angry was enjoying good sleep. We say anything about being with anyone else. He just he. This is not something you're supposed to do. You're the king and you know this you pass this. You can't do this. And so god's really ticked off because god told you not to do this. And so and so it is not his. It is not a soul separated from the body that goes back. Samuel actually comes back in bodily form fully clothed as an old man and and there's nothing to indicate that he's been either in a place of torment or in a place of reward and so hebrew bible scholars. Don't look on this as an instance of which somebody you know showing that when you die your soul goes one place or another. It's the only place by the way. We're in the hebrew bible where that kind of neck romance is performed but we do know that Some a lot of israelites thought it could be performed. Because they're all these laws against the by a budget laws doing something and so they at least think are seances going on. Something's happening but you know what it was. They were thinking is to know. This is kind of attention but that does make me wonder about this. So it's it's example of this belief in the persecution of witchcraft or or necker. Nancy why do you think it is that monotheistic religions like judaism christianity would have been so opposed to people independently practicing magic or consulting the dead. In fact i believe Correct me if i'm wrong but this is also sort of one of the horrors of the book of i knock right where these evil heavenly creatures. Come down and they teach human women how to do. Magic spells is that right. Yeah they don't mention netco massey there but they do. They do teach humans all sorts of practical things that god does a like. and so. that's that's kind of what's going on with his neck romance thing when you raising somebody. Up in a seance or or however you doing it through magical rites the ancient thought. Was that this person. It's it's not that the person's soul is living on the person's temporarily come back to life again there. Solis come back into the body and because they have died and they'd come back from the dead. They have these kind of powers ad in monotheistic religion. There's only supposed to be one superhuman power. And as god and so these other powers are threatening and people usually turned to Necker massey and other forms of magic precisely because the established religion wasn't working too well for them and so they were. They weren't learning what they need to learn. They weren't getting what they needed to get. They weren't you know. And they try and alternative. Means and in these monotheistic religions. God is a jealous god and he doesn't like it when you go to some other divine force and so that's why it's like a form of cheating almost was a form of cheating. It's like you know you go to your you. Go to your priest for advice and then you go home and get your ouija board. I mean look right. Just said don't bother. Where'd you do. People usually boards anyway. What i was a kid we used. We always great. Okay okay. so that's the view of of the ancient jews. They would of mostly believe. And of course we should acknowledge that whenever we're talking about Views describing them to groups of people. There was probably some diversity but we're talking about like the dominant views that are represented in the record right. Well it's it's a very important point because in my book i tried to show. There are in fact. Different views and hebrew bible itself. I mean you mentioned ecclesiastes and the book of daniel has a very different kind of you and so there are varieties the one variety you don't find in the hebrew bible is you die in your soul those having her house right so then what about the to turn away from ancient judaism. What about the influence of greek philosophy in like the ideas of socrates and plato and how those came through in the pagan beliefs of the roman empire. Yeah it's very important Far more important than most people realize in the earliest greek records we have they come our earliest records come from homer from the iliad and the odyssey and the earliest four hundred dante in the western tradition so gilda mashes in the ancient but in the western tradition the earliest four dante is a homer odyssey the odyssey book eleven is this going into the underworld and visiting people there including his mother and his former colleagues in the in the trojan war and and he needs all these people and the point of this description to show what is like down there and it's not good. It's not good for everybody because everybody is just down there the same. They've got their their shadows. They're called shadows. They're not even people anymore but they kind of shadows people and they've got no strength and no power no mind you can't think they can't remember. It's they can't talk it's like they. Just it's awful forever by the time you get to plato about four hundred years later so plato's riding the early fourth century bc. So you know four hundred years before. Jesus ministry plato. By the time of plato greeks. It started thinking that this idea that like everybody goes to hades and it's the same and it's boring for eternity and there's no that's not right. I mean how can you mean that somebody who is a valiant warrior who is upright and you always does the good thing and helps other people he dies and like that's it. He doesn't get anywhere award. And there's some schmuck over here like this tyrant who oppresses people just cares about his own self getting massively rich and powerful and doesn't care who he hurts the process. He dies in the punish. No that can't be how it is as greeks came up with this idea that in fact after death there rewards and punishments. We don't know of other people at the same time came up with this idea. But we find that. Most firmly in the greeks especially plato who devoted a lot of time in his dialogue in his surviving dialogues to show that the soul and the body are two different things and that the mistake people make in life is catering to their body when the important thing is their soul and so plato was pushing for philosophy. The love of nod as what philosophy Means the love of wisdom because he thought we needed attend to the needs of our inner selves especially our minds and our our mental states and our values and our views of what's right and wrong and our ethics and how live and those are the things we should be concerned about not like getting drunk all the time and having parties and having sex randomly like players. They know that is catering to your body. And the problem is if you if you giving your body's pleasures then you're gonna not pay any attention to your soul and when you die your soul is going to live on your body's going to die and so you need to make sure your souls doing well when it dies or it's going to be bad news. And so plato. Plato tells these myths of the after. He calls the myths he. I don't think he means i'm literally. But he he tells these kind of stories of people who die and they check out what it's like afterwards and those who tend to their soul have very good after lives and those who are just licentious torrential bastards. They're tortured forever. And so you get rewards and punishments. And so plato. Plato popularizes idea. It's not clear he invented it but it's found in a number of places in his dialogues especially Say in in The fado and in the republic and ended up becoming a hugely significant understanding things for the history of the.
"ehrman" Discussed on Stuff To Blow Your Mind
"Joe mccormick and today we're going into the volt to bring you an episode from last year. This one originally published on july fourteenth twenty twenty and this one was called heaven and hell with bart ehrman. This was an interview that i did with a With a secular biblical historian named bart erman. Who's a really interesting and passionate scholar. Who who knows a lot and is really fun to listen to. And it's all about the origins of the christian concepts of heaven and hell. I thought this was a a really really interesting discussion. I love talking to bart and so we hope you enjoy this classic episode. Welcome to blow your mind. Production of iheartradio. Hey welcome to stuff to blow your mind. My name is robert lamb. And i'm joe mccormack and this week. We are going to be featuring a couple of interviews that i recorded last week because last week robert. You're out of the office. You were at least off work for a bit and so so i recorded conversations with authors of some books one book. That's already out this year in one book. That's coming up so on thursday of this week. We're going to be airing a conversation that i had with the author of a fascinating upcoming book about the evolutionary biology of cancer. But today we're going to be exploring a topic in the realm of ancient history and religion. And if you followed us for a while. I think you probably know this about us. That one of our kind of trails to go down is tracing the evolution of religious ideas through ancient history. I mean i. I think. I've outed myself on this podcast. Before as a the kind of nonreligious religious person who loves the bible. Like you know. I i love to read ancient religious texts and learn about them and see how the ideas from the ancient world of super filtered through to us today in shape to the society's we live in and so that's exactly the kind of thing we're gonna be diving into in this episode I'm talking with a secular biblical historian named bart erman about his most recent book which is called heaven. And hell history of the afterlife. This book was released in march of this year by simon and schuster. And it's all about the christian ideas of life after death where they come from an ancient history. What influence their development and how they changed over time So there is a part. That cited in the intro of bart's book where he talks about a pew research poll that was conducted a few years ago. I think maybe it was in two thousand fifteen where It found that. Seventy two percent of americans believe in a literal heaven and fifty eight percent believe in literal hell and yet i think most americans would be deeply surprised. Even shock to learn what historians can show about the origins of these beliefs. In the strange thing. Is that like the historical conclusions. That bart's gonna talk about in. This episode are not fringe or unusual among secular scholars of the bible and historians of the ancient near east This is utterly mainstream critical scholarship. And yet i think regular people are especially in the united states are going to find it very surprising. Yeah absolutely and i. I want to stress something here for everybody so i. I just got back to work this morning. And i plugged into a pre-production Cut of this interview and it's really. It's really excellent. So if you're even slightly scared away by the idea of an interview with a secular biblical scholar don't because because bart is tremendous. He's he's funny very high energy. I think you're really going to enjoy this chat. Joe had with bart here. Yeah parts full of knowledge. Good humor passion for his subject. I think you're really going to enjoy the episode. But before we going to do it. I'll just give a little bit of background on bart's. Here's his biography. Bart ehrman is a leading authority on the new testament and the history of early christianity and the author editor of more than thirty books including the new york times bestsellers misquoting. Jesus how jesus became god and the triumph of christianity and that last one's really interesting. It's about how. Christianity took over the roman empire and went from a really small religion to the dominant religion of the empire in just a matter of a few centuries Anyway so he is a distinguished professor of religious studies at the university of north carolina chapel hill. And he has created eight popular audio and video courses for the great courses. He has been featured in time the new yorker the washington post and has appeared on. Nbc cnn and the daily show. With jon stewart as well as the history channel national geographic channel bbc. Npr all the hits. His most recent book again is heaven and hell Just one more thing before we get into it. I wanna mention. Obviously we are dealing with the the audio constraints of of remote recording in the age of covert nineteen so for example around the twelve minute mark in the episode. There is briefly. Some background noise. That sounds like a fan was turned on or the some rain. It only lasts for about a minute or so and so please just put up with a little bit of background noise and it's very brief. I promise it's not the sounds of hell right now. Audio recordings of the underworld leaking up through Some sort of mining microphone right the well to hell was unleashed office So yeah i would say Without any further ado let's jump right in barnum and welcome to the podcast. Thanks so much for joining us today. Yes thanks for having me so your book. Heaven and hell Just finished reading yesterday. And i i really really enjoyed it and i want to say that i started reading this book at a very opportune time. Because i didn't plan it this way. I'm also currently in the middle of rereading the divine comedy. Actually my wife. And i are reading it together and of course the divine comedy. Dante is wonderful poetry. But it's also psychologically fascinating because when you go through the theology of dante you get the sense of somebody who is simultaneously ingenious and thoughtful and in some ways very intellectually bold and open-minded for his historical context but in other ways dante's also very limited and provincial in a word medieval like the way you see him taking so much pleasure in designing horrific tortures for his enemies from these petty thirteenth century political struggles in italy working with ancient religious texts. Do you find yourself. Encountering this kind of irony embodied within the same author or traditional part of my book. On having the hell is dealing with some of the earliest forerunners of dante. Many people think that he was creative. In coming up with this idea of guided tour of the infernal and the parodies. Oh and the and the very on. But in fact he was borrowing from The the motif of a guided tour of the realms of the dead from earlier authors and Including in the christian tradition. I think one thing that very seriously contrast between Dante and his early forerunners..
"ehrman" Discussed on Stuff To Blow Your Mind
"Hey welcome to stuff to blow your mind. My name is Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick and this week. We are going to be featuring a couple of interviews. That I recorded last week because last week Robert, you were out of quote, the office you or at least you off work for a bit and <hes> so so I recorded conversations with authors of some books <hes> one book. That's already out this year in one book. That's coming up so on Thursday of this week. We're going to be airing a conversation that I had with the author of A. A fascinating upcoming book about the evolutionary biology of cancer, but today we're going to be exploring topic in the realm of ancient history and religion. If you've followed us for a while, I think you probably know this about us that one of our favorite kind of trails to go down his tracing the evolution of religious ideas through ancient history I mean I think I've outed myself on this podcast before. As a the kind of nonreligious person who loves the Bible. Can I love to read ancient religious texts and learn about them and see how the ideas from. From the ancient world of super filtered through to us today and shape to the societies we live in, and that's exactly the kind of thing. We're GONNA be diving into in this episode <hes> I'm talking with a secular Biblical historian named Bart Erman about his most recent book, which is called Heaven and hell a history of the afterlife. This book was released in March of this year by Simon. And Schuster, and it's all about the Christian ideas of life after death where they come from ancient history, what influence their development and how they changed over time <hes> so? So there was a part that cited in the intro of Bart's book where he talks about a pew research poll that was conducted a few years ago. I think. Maybe it was in two thousand fifteen. Where <hes> it found that seventy two percent of Americans believe in a literal heaven and fifty eight percent believe in literal hell, and yet I think most Americans would be deeply surprised, even shock to learn what historians can show about the origins of these beliefs in the strange thing. Is that like the historical conclusions that Bart's GonNa talk about in this episode? Are Not fringe or unusual among secular scholars of the Bible, in historians of the ancient Near East <hes>. This is utterly mainstream, critical scholarship, and yet I think regular people are especially in the united. States, are going to find it very surprising. Yeah, absolutely, and I want to stress something here for everybody, so I just got back. To work this morning and I plugged into a pre production <hes> cut of this interview and it's really it's really excellent, so if you're even slightly scared away by the idea of an interview with a secular biblical scholar <hes> don't be because Barda is tremendous. He's he's funny. Very High Energy. I think you're really going to enjoy this chat. Joe Had with Bart here. Yeah, parts full of knowledge, good humor passion for his subject. I think you're really going to enjoy the episode, but before we can do it I'll just give a little bit of background on Bart's here's his biography Bart. D Ehrman is a leading authority on the New Testament and the history of early Christianity, and the author or editor of. Of more than thirty books, including the New York Times bestsellers misquoting Jesus, how Jesus became God, and the triumph of Christianity, and that last one's really interesting. It's about how Christianity took over the Roman Empire and went from a really small religion, too dominant religion of the empire, and just a matter of a few centuries <hes> anyway, so he is a distinguished professor of religious studies, the University of North Carolina Chapel, Hill and he. He has created eight popular audio and video courses for the great courses. He has been featured in time. The New Yorker The Washington Post and has appeared on NBC CNN and the daily show with Jon Stewart as well as the history channel National Geographic Channel BBC NPR, all the hits <hes> his most recent book is Heaven and Hell <hes> just one more thing before we get into it I. WanNa mention obviously we are dealing with. With the audio constraints of <hes> of remote recording in the age of Covid, nineteen, so for example around the twelve minute mark in the episode there is briefly some background noise that sounds like a fan was turned on or some rain. It only lasts for about a minute or so, and so please just put up with a little bit of background noise, and it's very brief I promise. It's not the sounds of hell right. Now audio recordings of the underworld leaking up through <hes>, some sort of mining microphone right? The well to hell was not unleashed office. So yeah, I would say <hes> without any further ado. Let's jump right in. Bardem and welcome to the PODCAST. Thanks so much for joining us today. Yes, thanks for having me so your Book Heaven and Hell <hes> I just finished reading yesterday, and I I really really enjoyed it. <hes> and I want to say that I started reading this book. It very opportune time because though I didn't plan it this way. I'm also currently in the middle of rereading. Rereading the divine comedy, actually my wife and I are reading it together and <hes>, of course, the divine comedy Dante his wonderful poetry, but it's also psychologically fascinating <hes> because when you go through the theology of Dante, you get the sense of somebody who is simultaneously ingenious and thoughtful, and in some ways very intellectually bold and open minded for his historical context, but in other ways. Dante's also very limited and provincial in a word medieval like the way you see him taking so much pleasure in designing horrific tortures for his enemies from these. Petty Thirteenth Century political struggles in Italy. Working with ancient religious texts do you find yourself encountering? This kind of irony embodied within the same author or traditional lot
Heaven and Hell with Bart Ehrman
"Hey welcome to stuff to blow your mind. My name is Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick and this week. We are going to be featuring a couple of interviews. That I recorded last week because last week Robert, you were out of quote, the office you or at least you off work for a bit and so so I recorded conversations with authors of some books one book. That's already out this year in one book. That's coming up so on Thursday of this week. We're going to be airing a conversation that I had with the author of A. A fascinating upcoming book about the evolutionary biology of cancer, but today we're going to be exploring topic in the realm of ancient history and religion. If you've followed us for a while, I think you probably know this about us that one of our favorite kind of trails to go down his tracing the evolution of religious ideas through ancient history I mean I think I've outed myself on this podcast before. As a the kind of nonreligious person who loves the Bible. Can I love to read ancient religious texts and learn about them and see how the ideas from. From the ancient world of super filtered through to us today and shape to the societies we live in, and that's exactly the kind of thing. We're GONNA be diving into in this episode I'm talking with a secular Biblical historian named Bart Erman about his most recent book, which is called Heaven and hell a history of the afterlife. This book was released in March of this year by Simon. And Schuster, and it's all about the Christian ideas of life after death where they come from ancient history, what influence their development and how they changed over time so? So there was a part that cited in the intro of Bart's book where he talks about a pew research poll that was conducted a few years ago. I think. Maybe it was in two thousand fifteen. Where it found that seventy two percent of Americans believe in a literal heaven and fifty eight percent believe in literal hell, and yet I think most Americans would be deeply surprised, even shock to learn what historians can show about the origins of these beliefs in the strange thing. Is that like the historical conclusions that Bart's GonNa talk about in this episode? Are Not fringe or unusual among secular scholars of the Bible, in historians of the ancient Near East This is utterly mainstream, critical scholarship, and yet I think regular people are especially in the united. States, are going to find it very surprising. Yeah, absolutely, and I want to stress something here for everybody, so I just got back. To work this morning and I plugged into a pre production cut of this interview and it's really it's really excellent, so if you're even slightly scared away by the idea of an interview with a secular biblical scholar don't be because Barda is tremendous. He's he's funny. Very High Energy. I think you're really going to enjoy this chat. Joe Had with Bart here. Yeah, parts full of knowledge, good humor passion for his subject. I think you're really going to enjoy the episode, but before we can do it I'll just give a little bit of background on Bart's here's his biography Bart. D Ehrman is a leading authority on the New Testament and the history of early Christianity, and the author or editor of. Of more than thirty books, including the New York Times bestsellers misquoting Jesus, how Jesus became God, and the triumph of Christianity, and that last one's really interesting. It's about how Christianity took over the Roman Empire and went from a really small religion, too dominant religion of the empire, and just a matter of a few centuries anyway, so he is a distinguished professor of religious studies, the University of North Carolina Chapel, Hill and he. He has created eight popular audio and video courses for the great courses. He has been featured in time. The New Yorker The Washington Post and has appeared on NBC CNN and the daily show with Jon Stewart as well as the history channel National Geographic Channel BBC NPR, all the hits his most recent book is Heaven and Hell just one more thing before we get into it I. WanNa mention obviously we are dealing with. With the audio constraints of of remote recording in the age of Covid, nineteen, so for example around the twelve minute mark in the episode there is briefly some background noise that sounds like a fan was turned on or some rain. It only lasts for about a minute or so, and so please just put up with a little bit of background noise, and it's very brief I promise. It's not the sounds of hell right. Now audio recordings of the underworld leaking up through some sort of mining microphone right? The well to hell was not unleashed office. So yeah, I would say without any further ado. Let's jump right in. Bardem and welcome to the PODCAST. Thanks so much for joining us today. Yes, thanks for having me so your Book Heaven and Hell I just finished reading yesterday, and I I really really enjoyed it. and I want to say that I started reading this book. It very opportune time because though I didn't plan it this way. I'm also currently in the middle of rereading. Rereading the divine comedy, actually my wife and I are reading it together and of course, the divine comedy Dante his wonderful poetry, but it's also psychologically fascinating because when you go through the theology of Dante, you get the sense of somebody who is simultaneously ingenious and thoughtful, and in some ways very intellectually bold and open minded for his historical context, but in other ways. Dante's also very limited and provincial in a word medieval like the way you see him taking so much pleasure in designing horrific tortures for his enemies from these. Petty Thirteenth Century political struggles in Italy. Working with ancient religious texts do you find yourself encountering? This kind of irony embodied within the same author or traditional lot
"ehrman" Discussed on News Radio 1190 KEX
"To bart Ehrman his new book it is heaven and hell a history of the afterlife in the neck I think it I was in high just you articulated so beautifully but people misunderstand role I would say people many Christians misunderstand references to shoal in the Old Testament and they think of it as being a kind of hell or maybe a kind of purgatory and they what they import into that a kind of a Christian view of what the after life is and then they put a heavier emphasis on passages in Ezekiel for example them bones them bones them dry bones and the idea that we would be reborn after death with the return of the messiah and that that is not what to those passages were about and I thought you explained it really well in the new book well thanks yeah I know it's a it's a really it's kind of complicated issue in part part of the complication is that we almost everybody course reads the Bible in an English translation and right sometimes the English translations themselves create the problems so they're they're two things going on here that you're you're talking about one is in the parts of the it okay first thing the Old Testament never talks about a place or two places the people go when they die in other words it's not that you you it's for the Hebrew Bible it's not the your by your body dies in your soul goes to heaven or hell that that's no where in the Hebrew Bible the Bible does talk sometimes about this place you mentioned called sheol and sushi roll sometimes it is translated into English Bible translations as hell but it doesn't mean hell and in other words we think of hell when we use the word help we were referring to the places souls get punished for the devil is being punished for the double punishing but is place where souls go after they die for punishment there is no place in the Hebrew Bible your soul goes for punishment she old when they get used doesn't mean that the scholars have long argued that what it really means is it's kind of like the Greek idea of Hades that you find like in the homers ridings or something we're like everybody's together in this big place and nothing's really happening there and it's kind of boring and and the people live like that forever and in this place called sheol and that's what I use today I used to teach that all the time until writing this book I actually did the series research on and did all the linguistic studies of it and realized in fact is not talking about that sheol in the Hebrew Bible seems is most commonly it is it is likened it to the grave or it's it's and I dedicate to send that message in an M. for grave or pets which means that should the bush you remain get thrown he aged Hebrews this can be key for the second part of the U. S. about aged Hebrews did not have our understanding of the soul we say that peace in the most but not all of us but the traditional thinking is that people are made up of two things you got a body and you got soul when your body dies your soul lives on we get we got that point of view from the Greeks it was not a view that the Israelites that related the later Jews they didn't think that the soul could live apart from the body but with the way they understood the soul was more like we understand the brass so when when god created the human being Adam he makes Adam out of the dirt and then he breathes life into him and Adam is alive so long as he has the brass in him so what happens when we die well in our thinking still breath hap will we do with the brass when you die you stop breathing your browser doesn't go anywhere it doesn't exist once you stop breathing and that's what agent Hebrew thought the soul what is the thing that made you alive is like your Braff and when he died it didn't go anywhere this is gone now and so you were dead so she always not a place where your soul when it's just it's just for your body's buried and you don't exist anymore you you your soul your debt your debt mostly revival that's the point but even in which is funny because I remember this this this conversation would go was going on and I went to you went to Princeton theological seminary or Divinity School what is it again I can't member the center yeah right I went to I went to Columbia and so we had some more Calvinist old school Presbyterians who would make the point that when we died from Calvin's viewpoint anyway is you were dead dead dead that was what the the guy said every time he pounded the top of the desk every time he said it you are dead dead dead he said there is no you're getting wings and floating up to heaven there is no you're an angel and you will remain dead dead dead until Perugia until some of them later on in which then you will be resurrected and that's it and I think what he even even most Presbyterians don't believe that I think if you ask them they wouldn't be thinking about because that's much more like shoal yeah well so yeah so that's the view that as of developing that so when and it's really important because it develops in the Hebrew Bible at the very end of the you buy but it becomes the view of of Jesus which is that when you die you're dead dead dead as you said I mean you you you you know you're you don't have a soul anymore is the soul's gonna grab is gone but then they started some Jews started taking it start about two hundred years before Jesus that that that that can't be right because you don't we did suffer and die that's the end of the story there is no justice and they start thinking well it can't be that way and they started thinking that what's going to happen is god in the end is going to is do what's right and people who have sided with god who have suffered as a result and died are gonna be raised from the dead the breath of can be brought back into their bodies and they're going to become alive again so it's not that they're sold to be alive they're they're human being is because the whole human being is going to be alive and so they'll be a bodily resurrection of the dead and so there was no idea of the soul going to heaven or hell that's certainly not what Jesus taught this is the biggest surprise in my book I argue that that the idea that your soldiers they have now is not in the Old Testament and is absolutely not what Jesus taught Jesus didn't believe that the soul to heaven or hell he thought that at the end of time bodies would be raised again and they would live here on earth Sir in a paradise and this is the confusion that gives us you know like crash test dummies with that famous song god shuffled his feet as people wondered well so if your I. gets plucked out in this life will it be waiting up in heaven with your wife and so if you will be re you'll be made whole again for whatever scars you had here will suddenly be you'll be you'll be back to your best look at the twenty four year old bad self and you'll get you know the huge debate in early Christianity about just that point because right you know if you are raised from the dead which body do you come into right it's like you know what if you what if you had your mac it is going to happen or not and you know and you know if you if if if you know every hair on your head is going to be left there you can have like are you gonna be terribly hairy fingernails you lost what could happen well and I had this conversation with somebody who is trans gendered and Christian and they're like you know because if I come back again as a guy I'll be so mad that they were jamming up other problems too because the people say these Christian theologians in the early church started thinking well you know like suppose suppose you diet see you know and you can write and appreciate you and then so you your body because part of the fish's body then some officially catch the fish it eats the fish as a your body becomes part of that part so the resurrection who gets those parts and it becomes like the monkey's paw after a while even like contemplate what the whole with that would be and this is but this is important because you know again if it you hit it so well we're talking with bart Ehrman the book is heaven and hell that our our view of the after life here's what I think I think our view of the after life so often conditions how we think other people it how why it's okay for other people to suffer not so much on our suffering yes and I there's a subtext to to suffering where it was viewed as like that you know well they'll get the reward in heaven but you know for them for this person they want to stick stand every possible day that they possibly can on earth because they want to enjoy what they have and there's a lot of you know just about every view whether it's a religious view our political views social view and just about any view can be used for good things and bad things and and mainly because people are using them and people could be good or bad but I mean yeah you know using heaven and hell in that way is very very bad because it means you have you have no incentive really to help people who are suffering now because well you know they'll be rewarded later and so it doesn't really matter if I take care of the hungry or the homeless or the need because you will you know god will take care of them after they die you know and so oh my god are you kidding me this this is not a dress rehearsal for something this is this is all we're going to happen if we don't if we don't take care of the needy now they're going to cancel yeah these doctrines could have very they can have a good effect because you know the you know somebody suffering in the hospital and they think well I'm going to you know to be okay soon that's good right you know whether it's true or not but right but it it it and we're not the only people who have those traditions either so it's not just right it's not as Christians lots of people find comfort in thinking of that at their in their final days yeah you know I mean you know there's lots of tradition about the afterlife and some of them you know are are very helpful for people but some of them are hugely harmful well in the book heaven and hell a doctor minute dresses the moon met the back story essentially to this philosophical development that we see in the Bible by talking about the ancients and how their views changed over time too but I think one of those things too when we're talking about Scholl was again to push away from the concept of the after life as an individual achievement that when when the after life is referenced it was spoken of as the collective the people will go on your tribe but will go on that that's your after life is that you are as part of a collective that will survive whether or not you do or not yeah that that was the point you're making earlier about the yeah he killed in the bones and the bones in the body yeah and I think that speaks a lot of people out because they don't realize that that wasn't that wasn't the story it also the regional view before it so a minute ago I just painted out view the Jesus and others had that they'll be a resurrection of the dead at the end of time that idea developed out of an earlier idea the earliest ideas exactly what you were saying before which is that there isn't an individual afterlife at all no resurrections of individual bodies or anything that work would start the original concern in the ancient Israelite authors selecci read the profits are you Regis anybody mule test and just about and they're not concerned about individuals living after death what happens is the nation of Israel itself understands itself to be called by god to be his special people here on earth not because there's gonna be having afterwards which is this life is all there is and and they're the ones who are faithful to god and who live the way god wants them to and they ended up being did they ended up being destroyed by but because of the different military engagement sins of the Assyrians destroyed the northern part of Israel then hundred fifty years later the Babylonians destroyed the southern part of India and and the.
"ehrman" Discussed on WTVN
"Punnett Dr bart Ehrman coming up after the top of the hour heaven and hell is his new book and I think I can see already where the bumpers are headed for it and does it do along with the bart Ehrman of course we'll take calls for him later on and in the meantime until the top of the hour this is not open lines per se but I'd love to get your input on this it's just a conversation that I think is been we ve been weaving in and out of a lot of the conversations I've been having about coded nineteen both on and off the air is what could be the unexpected upside to code nineteen not downplaying the deaths you know Dr McDougall last night said he still thinks it could be upwards of two point two million people just in the United States if things don't go just right it could it could get that bad and he uses models for that that are pretty consistent with epidemiologists and other predictions and other people are making so hopefully everything will do will keep the the body count down right and who will keep all the people that we love the life that be wonderful but having put that aside for the moment what good could come from cold eight nineteen you wanna make a prediction you can do that next on coast to coast AM this is the opponent with.
"ehrman" Discussed on 106.1 FM WTKK
"Five this is coast to coast AM with Ian Punnett okay so I say that because of the guilty pleasure glis have second floor next me of every time I hear it like in a grocery store or something like that not very often anymore so we're lining up our last vote everybody get aboard if you can get a seat will get tell me here just a minute if if you don't get an open line now wait to hear somebody drop on the air for bart Ehrman coming up and then quickly re dial and maybe we can get you before the show is over the new book is heaven and hell a history of the afterlife if you go online the coast to coast AM you'll also see that earlier we mentioned lex loan hood who is our webmaster at coast to coast AM dot com is looking to collect your dreams that are inspired by the coronavirus if you've been noticing that you're having corona virus dreams or nightmares you want to share with somebody lex would like to hear from you and if you'd so easy to get the email address that he has set up a special box for that just by going to the website it's the first one in the carousel can't miss it and I don't want to miss the rest of the show next on coast to coast AM this is Ian Punnett many.
"ehrman" Discussed on Newsradio 970 WFLA
"Ian Punnett Dr bart Ehrman coming up after the top of the hour heaven and hell is his new book and I think I can see already where the bumpers are headed for today and does it do along with the bart Ehrman of course we'll take calls for him later on and in the meantime until the top of the hour this is not open lines per se but I'd love to get your input on this it's just a conversation that I think is been we ve been weaving in and out of a lot of the conversations I've been having about coded nineteen both on and off the air is what could be the unexpected upside to code nineteen not downplaying the deaths you know Dr McDougall last night said he still thinks it could be upwards of two point two million people just in the United States if things don't go just right it could it could get that bad and he uses models for that that are pretty consistent with epidemiologists and other predictions and other people are making so hopefully everything will do will keep the the body count down right and we'll keep all the people that we love the life that be wonderful but having put that aside for the moment what good could come from cold at nineteen you want to make a prediction you can do that next on coast to coast AM this is the opponent many are blaming president trump for the corona virus crisis others say he's doing a good job now newsmax is conducting a national poll asking what you think about the president's handling of all of this but I urge you to vote in newsmax poll just text the word vote the thirty nine seven forty seven that's a vote the.
"ehrman" Discussed on KTLK 1130 AM
"Ian Punnett Dr bart Ehrman coming up after the top of the hour heaven and hell is his new book and I think I can see already where the bumpers are headed for it and does it do along with the bart Ehrman of course we'll take calls for him later on and in the meantime until the top of the hour this is not open lines per se but I'd love to get your input on this it's just a conversation that I think is been we ve been weaving in and out of a lot of the conversations I've been having about coded nineteen both on and off the air is what could be the unexpected upside to cope with nineteen not downplaying the deaths you know Dr McDougall last night said he still thinks it could be upwards of two point two million people just in the United States if things don't go just right it could it could get that bad and he uses models for that that are pretty consistent with epidemiologists and other predictions and other people are making so hopefully everything will do will keep the the body count down right and we'll keep all the people that we love the life that be wonderful but having put that aside for the moment what good could come from cold eight nineteen you want to make a prediction you can do that next on coast to coast AM this is the opponent many are blaming president trump for the coronavirus crisis others say he's doing a good job now newsmax is conducting a national poll asking what you think about the president's handling of all of this I urge you to vote in newsmax poll just text the word vote the thirty nine seven forty seven that's a vote the.
"ehrman" Discussed on KOA 850 AM
"With Ian Punnett Dr bart Ehrman coming up after the top of the hour heaven and hell is his new book and I think I can see already where the bumpers are headed for and does it do along with the bart Ehrman of course we'll take calls for him later on and in the meantime until the top of the hour this is not open lines per se but I'd love to get your input on this it's just a conversation that I think is been we ve been weaving in and out of a lot of the conversations I've been having about coded nineteen both on and off the air is what could be the unexpected upside to cope with nineteen not downplaying the deaths you know Dr McDougall last night said he still thinks it could be upwards of two point two million people just in the United States if things don't go just right it could it could get that bad and he uses models for that that are pretty consistent with epidemiologists and other predictions and other people are making so hopefully everything will do will keep the the body count down right and we'll keep all the people that we love the life that be wonderful but having put that aside for the moment what good could come from cold at nineteen you want to make a prediction you can do that next on coast to coast AM this is the opponent many are.
"ehrman" Discussed on Science Salon
"Going to wrap it up here because I know you go. I'm going to read the the final paragraph of your beautiful book even though it is debated in my mind it is relatively clear which of these two choices socrates rather his ventriloquist plato actually thought he believed death was the end of the story but this was not a source of anxiety for him and it didn't need to be for us either. It doesn't need to be for us either. It is instead a motivation to love this life as much as we can presume long as we can to enjoy it to. Its most as far as possible and to help others do the same if all if all of us do that we will live on after death not in a personal consciousness once our brains of die but in the lives of those. We have touched perfect beautiful ending. Congratulations on the book. Thank you for your important work. And I can't read the next book this going to be. Great Yeah your next book should be a movie you know. Because filmmakers love the apocalypse Olga thing before the pandemic I've always watched all these apocalyptic movies. And all these reading all of these apocalyptic novels. And then your right in the middle of one of these is when the pandemic is watching contagious. Something Yeah exactly you know. I just had a phone meeting with a couple of screenwriters working on a TV project. And I just flippantly asked. Is Anybody thinking about the corona virus? Oh scripts already written. We don't even know what's going to happen but it's it's scary enough we can write a good TV movie script for all right. Bart will thank you again for coming on the show and thanks for your work..
"ehrman" Discussed on Science Salon
"Of the Eucharist that Trans Substantiation that it becomes the body and for outsiders cannibalism eating? Jesus Yeah Yeah there you have to go with a metaphor a metaphorical truth or mythical truth or or something like that but we kind of got sidetracked there. I don't want to skip the book of revelation because it's so fascinating often thought to be. Whoever John was on mud magic mushrooms or something? But there's a lot of symbolic meaning in that at least historical context of what the authors at the time meant or. It's virtually all symbolic my next book. By the way it's going to be on how misinterpretations of the book of revelation have led to the obsession with apocalyptic ideas in modern culture. Neum good vote culture both films and novels but that starting at the end of the nineteenth centuries when you start getting this idea that revelation is predicting what's going to happen in our near future Becoming a big problem and Christianity was always a marginal park became prominent parts with now. Most evangelicals read revelation. They think it's it's describing what's happening now. And you know some people are turning point. Pandemic you know this is the fulfillment of the promise right now. That's completely bogus. Wave interpreting revelation but It's a completely symbolic book. But it is rooted in a in what the author almost certainly thought was literal belief which is no this world's GonNa come to a crashing halt and God is going to intervene and destroy the forces of evil and bring in this good kingdom. It's the teaching of Jesus putting different mode It is it's a book that's to surprise a lot of people reading my book. I'll be arguing. It does not teach about having an how it does not take your soul goes to Heaven Heaven. Hell and especially I emphasize it does not teach that people are going to be a tormented in fire forever. Which is how most people re revelation? But I tried to show that in fact the in the book of revelation. When you've got a there's lake of fire near the end of revelation but humans are not left there forever. Humans are destroyed like as Jesus and Paul. Both on humans will be destroyed on God's side but you know the devil and the Anti Christ might be in the lake of fire forever but not humans. Yeah you mentioned something that maybe the chapter before that about the resurrection of Israel and this idea that a nation could be resurrected not not just individual members of the nation. And that's where you can kind of get that symbolism in revelation right yeah. Revelation was highly dependent on On Zeki Oil and Daniel blue those two books for developing its own ideas on kind of in a Christian mode but when when Hezekiel you first started talking about there being a resurrection and he has this very famous passage about the valley of dry bones. Were these bones are he has the prophesy is dead Bo human bones and they all start coming together and and then he agreed on them and they come alive again and people always used to show that the Bible's predicting the to be a future resurrection at the end of time. And if you actually read the passage again it's clear that's not what it's talking about. Ezekiel is giving this this passage in the context of his nation. Judah having been destroyed by the Babylonians they don't exist anymore and God is telling zeal. I'm going to bring the nation back to life. And so he illustrates with valley the dry bones and is equal salaries just seen and made happen. God says I will restore the nation to the lamb. And so so he says that's what this means. I'm going to. I'm going to bring back to life. People always taken that to mean that individuals come back to live at the end of talk. And that's how Christians even in the New Testament probably took it. But that's not. What Ezekiel meant that? There's going to be. A resurrection was centuries of individual for centuries after interesting. Yeah when back in. When I was a Christian college we were all reading the late. Great Planet Earth. I'm sure you read it to Helensburgh. And we were really literally reading the newspaper. Like Oh so Henry Kissinger's the Anti Christ no no as the Ayatollah Khamenei Anti Correct. And of course we'd completely missed the point of the book. Yeah you may not know of late. Great Planet Earth was the best selling book English. The nineteen seventy yeah. I've read that. I wonder if that was really true. Apparently it is. Yeah like tens of millions of copies. Yeah Yeah of course. It doesn't make the New York Times because they don't know they don't with that kind of book on Bestseller Lists But Yeah. I think I think it is true. And it's like the left behind series. I mean Donald. That's sixty million copies or something like that. Yeah Yeah Yeah So. There seems to be a hunger for that kind of narrative arc with the Begin and end in a in a catastrophic end. Where the other guys all get their their their just desserts and were on the chosen side and so on. Yeah willing to Christian tradition. It starts. Jesus who had the view. Or the apocalyptic philosophy apocalyptic word apocalyptic comes from a Greek word apprentice gains revealing or an unveiling and ideas that God's revealed what's going to happen When when evil destroyed and good trials and so that kind of you of this this binary between evil and good and this time line leading to the destruction of evil in the coming kingdom that whole package is called Apocalyptic clunking and so the book revelation is called the Apocalypse John. Because it's detailing a Christian form of those apocalypse Baba Jesus also apocalyptic thinking as did. Paul is the John Back Lot. Lots of juice in the done then. It got picked up by Christianity. And what ends up happening is that this apocalyptic resolution is no longer happening on earth. It it's an L. somewhere else sometime else. Yeah well so the yeah. That's right. So the apocalyptic use of Jesus and the book revelation is some time else but ear and the other is the Christian view of develops is somewhere else. And now interesting when you die right right so as all this was unfolding in an historically over the centuries into the early church fathers of the Catholic Church what were Jews. Thinking did their philosophy on this change throughout those entries Yeah so this apocalyptic thinking that time was gonna come soon. was the Jewish idea and is prominent in Judaism for over two hundred years Probably almost three hundred years The hopefulness of the world view was shattered with the award against Rome in the first and second centuries of the common era So the the first uprising was the destruction of Jerusalem in the year. Seventy and then about sixty five years later there's another uprising and the Romans came in and both times. They wiped out the leadership. And they you know is executed. Millions of Bahamas did what the Romans do. Romans had no qualms about this and they go in and wipe them out the second time. They actually made it illegal for Jews. Enter into Jerusalem and so- Jerusalem Was off limits with many many centuries as you know the modern period burke for Jews and so at that point juice gave up this whole idea. That God's GonNa end evil because obviating that ain't the right answer. Historically Jews have never really believed in an afterlife Most US today Would continue to agree pretty much with what the Bible says. Which is you die. And that's that's the end of the story so live life now while you can worship God now while you can enjoy your family and your friends and you simple pleasures now. I can Because Doug last long and after this you won't exist any so justice now also justice is a problem that system because of ASLI and Throughout Jewish history. Of course justice has been a very very. It's been the problem never more so than in modern times but but certainly with a very long history leading up to it so just just to hover on revelation a little bit more. It's would you describe it as sort of social commentary about what was going on at the time much to do with the Roman Empire. Yes absolutely we People read this. Don't realize this. But it's absolutely about the upcoming destruction of Rome and the power of Rome And so one and we won our indication of that is the number of the beast or the the Anti Christ figure the beast is given this number six six six and at the same time you were ours reading all these books about Henry Kissinger and folk all or whoever football action and So It's actually There's a fair unanimity among critical scholars. Let this was all about It's too feeble way of doing all of doing numbers that every the the ancient ancient Greek and Hebrew didn't use a different system for their numbers and their letters and so they usually. They're off of it for their numbers and so in In Greek Alpha the first letter is one and the second. Be Betas to you. Get when you get to town. The next letter is twenty the next then forty nine ninety the next one hundred minutes two hundred hundred where you can. Actually you put the letters together and you can tell you can do any number you want so but it also meant that. Every word probably numerical value depending on the numerical quantity of each letter if you spell out. So this is this is a prediction of six is the enemy of God who persecute Christians. Who brings out the blood of across the blood of the Christians Who is is is is killed in thought come back to life and That was true of the Emperor Nero. The first person Christians who persecuted Christians shed. Their blood was a committed suicide and was thought to be coming back in there. All these traditions throughout east about Nero coming back so if you Have you spent all the name? Caesar Nero in Hebrew Letters. It adds up six hundred sixty six right so did the beat. The opposition is the Roman emperor. Oh but you mentioned something about six one. Six is another alternative. Yeah so there's some manuscript we don't have the original copy. Revelation have some manuscripts which don't have six six six once was not about well. You can spell seizure. Niro two ways in Hebrew. Niro could happen at the end or the out the end. Though the Anna's noon in Hebrew and the end at noon in Hebrews worth.
"ehrman" Discussed on Science Salon
"You know when we're thinking back that far that long ago you know we have this problem with the curse of knowledge that we already know stuff and it's hard to not know it so we can get our minds into the heads of those people in think even though you can read what they said. It's so hard to know if we really get what they were thinking. Part of the problem is that this was something most people think of is that a big problem is when we don't read them in their original languages. Right we're we're reading. Of course what translators upset putting them into English but these translators were also influenced by modern ways of thinking so the where do they actually translate the words resonate with us and in a way that it would not have made sense in it in an ancient context? And so. That's the argument for having to learn. These languages are see how it works in the ancient languages. Yeah yeah the other problem you face you discuss in your book is understanding what regular people thought about all this stuff versus the people that actually wrote something which are the elite you. Yeah no I mean it'd be It's you know every yet ninety nine percent of the we know our literate on some level the almost every I think everybody I know can read the sports page In the ancient world it wasn't that way at all literacy was was a maybe ten percent and most of the ancient world and which ninety percent of people couldn't read and being ten percent you had to be fairly wealthy and one of the elite and moreover when you learn how to compose rioting then you're at the very top of that ten percents of the top one percent maybe co something and the top point zero one percent of the ones that compose anything that we would read today. Almost and those people are not like normal people. I you know you're not going to really understand of our. What are you? You're not gonNA understand what what The normal person. Thanks by reading. You know Stephen Hawking's or something I mean it's like you get this a but he's the writer and so you so the question haven't in Hell is. We know at the Leeds thought we know what some of the It's hard to know what the average person thought and just about the only access we have to. What the average person thought material remains In other words Things that archaeologists have discovered a tomb. And they'll find the fine things that have been buried with the person and so then they have to guess. What does this mean that they buried things that the person and they come up with these gases but they're just guessing you don't know right now some woman's buried with her cooking pots and so they say oh so they must think she's going to have to cook and you know maybe or maybe like you just commemorating her by giving putting your favorite things with her when she don't know right but apart from that there's not there's not much you can say about it except there are? There are too many scriptures. I mentioned this in my book We do have inscriptions on tombs and sometimes those are helpful one of the most interesting Roman tomb inscription so Roman language. Latin Used an abbreviation like today for years people who've done R I P rest in peace. You know they might put that on a tombstone In the Latin world they had a seven letter abbreviation that was and F F and S and sea and it stood for Latin words for I was not I was I am not I care. Not Modern in his in his thinking actually. Yeah it's very it is at its I know there were there. Were there were people who were not aligned with. Plato thought that this is the end of the story. You you you dispersion disperses it disperses and you don't exist anymore and this tombstone is your courage with such regularity. It looks like a more popular belief. Maybe even the idea that your soul lived on but I was reading that portion in your book about the woman buried with their pots and pans. It reminded me of self deprecating story. My philosophy professor told me Nineteen seventy two. I think it was when I was still born again and I was having debates with him about all this stuff and he said he used to make fun of you know people would go by. Go by cemetery Lee flowers for their loved ones and then when he was on a trip in the Far East in the in the Far East t he went to some cemetery where they were leaving bowls of rice so he he made a little joke with his his his tour guide their well injured guy coming back to eat the rice and the guy said when your guy comes back to smell the flowers very good. Obviously they're doing it for other reasons but so I mean I know you. No one can answer. I assume but a small child say age ten or whatever in Plato's timer or or in Jesus timer whenever asked the question well where? Where's the dog now that he's dead or where to grandma go now that she's gone? What happens to me when I die? But what what do you think? Average people said are thought to questions like that. On average people thought plant has an answer on that. We know about playing a belief in reincarnation at least has mets. Put out the idea of reincarnation and he thought that the symbols that are in humans also are the same kinds of soles that are in animals and that animals and previous life might have been humans and humans might come back as animals and so So mech dog lives on Jesus. Yeah probably not so much. Most ancient Jews thought that humans were the only ones with an element of the divine in them and live on and the others were to be subservient. Women played with this idea. And Heavens on earth that that part of the reason we conceive of an afterlife because you cannot conceive a beam dead too because to conceive of anything you have to be alive so it's like it's like asking somebody to imagine nothing like no universe at all no space time. You can't do it. You can't do it and you're ever since you've had every service and you had a brain that was thinking you've been alive and so how can you possibly know transport yourself into another where you can for me. It's like I had A. I had a small operation couple years ago and they gave me a general and I is out a little bit and I guess some people dream when they have a general that I I was like completely blackout and when I came up came awake again. I thought you know if death is like that then I I mean there was nothing. There wasn't bothered about it right right. Berg is just lights out lights out. That's what I suspect happens. But it's very difficult to conceive of that having never experienced channel Anastasia which no one has before say the late nineteenth century. And that's the problem is that I can't conceive of not being conscious sentient somewhere so and I but I you know it's the paradox of Death. I can look around. I could see people die so something else must happen. You know something must float off the body the brain or whatever and goes somewhere because I can't conceive of it not. Yeah Yeah Yeah yeah well. That's right yeah that's right Yeah that's probably why most people throughout history of I mean majority of people thought something goes on after that and it's got to be as part of you are being human you can't imagine it otherwise. Yeah so let's get to Jesus the Modern Christian. Tout's this scripture John Three sixteen so God so loved the World. He Gave His only begotten Son. So you may have everlasting light. You know they they wear it. They put in football stadiums on posters on on their little blackout for football players. Three sixteen and saw I mean it's like a founding idea if you accept Jesus you get to have eternal life because he died for you and he was resurrected. So you'll be resurrected and so on what did where did this idea really come from. And what did Jesus really think riots? It's very interesting because This this view in Gospel John I don't think it's the view that Jesus himself. The Gospel of John was written sixty or sixty five years after Jesus was dead by somebody who we didn't know him who is Who at a whole different point of view from Jesus? He wasn't somebody who lived in Palate in in Israel and so the question is what is a Jew in Jesus time thanking. What does Jesus actually say about the afterlife? And it's not what people expect About two hundred years before Jesus showed up There was a point of view that got developed in early. Judaism that said that Death is not death is not the end It can't be the end because there's so much injustice in this world and the righteous suffer so much that God cannot leave it at that and they developed this idea that at the end of time God who destroy everything is opposed to him all the forces of evil and he would bring in a utopian age so the idea was that God had created a Paradise Garden of Eden and then people blew it and got bad on worse and worse and worse. But he's got to return us to Paradise Paradise. The Garden of Eden was on her and the new paradise is going to be on earth to This paradise will be A. It'll be like a- a kingdom that God himself rules so it'll be a kingdom on her and so they call it the Kingdom of God and so this is the. This is the teaching the started a couple of hundred years before Jesus and it's the one that he absolutely subscribed to himself. He taught that the Kingdom of God is coming soon and people need to prepare for when Christians today tend to read that or anybody tends to read that they think that when he says well the Kingdom of God they think he means like up in heaven going to got up and he's not talking about going up in heaven he's talking about how God is going to bring a paradise back to Earth. This was the standard view among Jews in Jesus Day. And if you're careful what he has to say it's this standard view has well. That's in mark it's in mark. It's it's an all the sources of markets in Matthew and Luke in our oldest digits wrapping up about the earliest gospels by John. Our latest right Though the new was not that they didn't think that God would only reward the people who were on his side who were alive at the time To be fair he asked reward everybody. Who's been on his side? Who got a bad rap and ended up dying board and so he's going to raise people from the debt and so the doctor. The resurrection was originally. It was a Jewish idea that it's not the your soul and your body are separated from each other. You just one thing. You're not you're not. You're you're one that but at the end of time when God destroys the forces of evil. He's going to put people back he's going to bring life back into people and people will be bodily raised from the dead so they can enter the Kingdom of God.
"ehrman" Discussed on Science Salon
"A crystallized ancient in ancient Greeks thought the soul and the body were to separate the nominee that could be separated. The body can't live without the soul but the sole can live out the body and so it's a separate entity and Plato argued that the soul in fact immortal the body obviously dies but the sole necessarily lives on and Without that idea of your soul living on you obviously could not have an idea that your soul would go to heaven or hell and so it's imperative or the idea of having an hell the work that the soul is is its own entity and not not not we would and we. Today we would think most most people listening to your podcast but thanks that the soul you know doesn't exist separately but it's it's it's some some punch into the brain at some level but The Greeks didn't say it that way and the ancient Hebrews didn't see it that way either. They have different explanation but they didn't think Seoul could exist apart from the body so they they were we would call duelists the plate nest. The the the fall play were most. Greek thinkers in antiquity. That we know about by the time Plato or duels before Plato. We have earlier accounts of great views of going back to homer which homers our earliest Western literature and loves agree and in his view There there was not a have an hal or rewards and punishments in his view when a person dies Their ceases to exist they exist in some kind of shadowy form and he actually used the term for shadows and so the your shadow in some sense really exists but it has no power it has no strength and has no substance and has no ideas thoughts and you you exist like that forever down hades shadow and so the innovation with people connect with Plato. Is that no. There's actually the essence of you lives on after death. That super interesting. So in one theory the soul is real. But it's completely dependent on the physical body versus the soul. Floats off the body when physical body dies and it continues to exist somewhere else. Yeah and their to their kind of two different theories about your soul existing As a with the soul and body thing are are the one. Because I mean if you're talking about the great yes when you introduce the Hebrew slightly different conception of it. I don't know if you want me to get our yeah. Yeah let's do that. In Hebrew thanking the soul is the thing that energizes your body and brings it to life and so in the genesis creation story when God Creates Adam. He creates out amount of the. You're actually takes. Dirk makes it into a being but then he breathes into it and the breadth that goes into it is the Is is the thing that makes it a lie and so in some ways ancient Hebrew thought that your soul was kind of like your breath when you even today when we think the breath as far being alive. Obviously but when you stop when you stop breathing you doc but your breath doesn't go anywhere nowhere. It's not just you're not animated anymore. And that's what he thought about. The soul is that he attended. Want you you have the soul. And it's what made you alive when your body dies. The soul doesn't go anywhere it just it's gone now. This fate like breath the most like the nineteenth century notion of the lawn. Vitale you know the difference between a living body in a dead body seconds apart. Well the life force went out of it. What does that mean well? It's it's almost before we understood. Dna in neurons and how they work and all that and the twentieth century that does seem to make sense. It sounds something like that. Yeah Yeah Yeah Yeah Yeah Probably right and then you know and and the kind of weird thing in the history of what I'm interested ear. They haven't been hell is that it's not the Old Testament view the ancient Jewish you. It's not that unit became the Christian view. It's the Greek view. Right became the basis for our understanding. I think this is the point of your book. That's GONNA shake a lot of modern Christians. They're thinking you know the ideas of the afterlife and immortality come from the Old Testament but as you point out. There's nothing in the Old Testament like that. There's nothing there's no idea that your soul goes to heaven or hell. I think that'll be surprising. But I think what's really going to get? People upset is when I showed that. In fact Jesus didn't believe in heaven. And how WHOA now? You're getting. Yeah I I WANNA spend spend a lot of time on that because as soon as the best chapter in your book. But but but in terms of ancient Hebrew this idea of Haiti's. This was not a place that you go to nonexistence. Yeah it's complicated because you're asking what the authors of the Old Testament bought is is like asking. What did ancient Jews thank and ask him what ancient Jews thought is kind of like asking? What modern jus think depends which Julia Time. What WANNA MODERN AMERICANS WOULD? What are you talking? And so there's a variety of thing even in the Old Testament but there's nowhere that indicates the soul would afterwards that go there reward coupon and there is a place talk about in the Old Testament that is of the Hebrew word. She'll she'll people maybe heard of that. And it's often thought to be a kind of kind of like an Israelite Haiti the place at home or described where where everybody kind of goes nobody has any power or strength. And there's nothing really to do and people kind of board for eternity and but everybody's together down there and I've always thought that I thought that's what it was referring to a talk years and years and years until I started doing the really serious for his book and I realized in fact she all is not a place that people go to in the Hebrew Bible when described it. Always likens it to the grave or to the pet and so I came to realize is just talking about the place. Your body gets deposited. Bonnie goes to she'll meaning he goes into the pit or it goes into the grave and so there's no there's no like after that In in a most of the Hebrew Bible and some of the Hebrew Bible explicitly denies that. There's any life after that. Yeah I was just looking at Alan. Siegel's book I. I read that for life after death. The history of the afterlife in the religions otherwise. Yeah I read that when I was researching earth it. That that it's just it's it's like asking. Where were you before you were born? You just weren't anywhere. Yeah you are and where you're debt anywhere you say place your body body venture would disappear too. Yeah yeah so this idea of the continuation of the soul. Dan As you show is fraught with all kinds of problems. How does a soul see without eyes or digest food or have emotions or care about anything without a brain? How did how did the ancient Hebrews Org Greeks or anybody early church fathers? You know kind of wrestle with that problem on the grants who thought that. There's a difference between body and soul had a different way of understanding that then a we do We have been heavily. A you know this better than I do. we've been heavily influenced by. Dick Kerr who in his meditations develop this idea of of that you get this the separate that you get this Immaterial soul and you get a material body and so that's what people think of today. Is that the soul is invisible thing that has not made up of any staff And so people who have that view do have trouble explaining how you can be a whipped in a hell or how you can be physically tortured and now if you don't have the physical body the Greeks actually didn't have that problem and this is not widely known actually in among scholars don't realize this but in ancient Greece the Numa the the spirit and the Suitca the soul the human existence. But they're not in material. There are different kind of material from our body. Our Body is the thick. Clunky stuff that it just kind of course grows the the soul the spirit are very refined? Stop they're more like. I guess what we might think of as the air or something. The air is stop there molecules in the air. But with the Mo- it's a much finer stuff and so You know you can send your hand through it but you you're GonNa go through your hand and say what you're hacking go through it. Because it's a finer stop so they understood that it was tough and since it was stuff when it lives on. It's still stuff and so they don't have trouble imagining how it can. You'll pay no. They don't of course you know they don't understand about nerve endings and things but No but since its material objects that is still human. It can experience physical Ben.
"ehrman" Discussed on Science Salon
"Today is Bart Erman. The great historian of religion in his new book is heaven. And Hell a history of the afterlife. Bartrum and is a leading authority on the New Testament and the history of early Christianity and the author or editor of more than thirty books including the New York Times bestsellers misquoting Jesus how Jesus became God and the Triumph of Christianity a distinguished professor of religious studies at the University of North Carolina. At Chapel Hill is created eight popular audio and video courses for the great courses you're interested in discussions of the afterlife joined. Barton's blog at. Www dot urban blog dot org. That's E. H. M. A. N. blog dot org anyway. I'm a big fan and longtime friend with of BARDA. I've read those three books misquoting. Jesus huggies became gone the triumph of Christianity very interesting just the very idea that Jesus becomes God. Historically that is their stories about God's interacting and having sex with humans and vice versa and this whole idea of God and human can be one in the same and all that trinity stuff that all has super interesting historical context. As does this idea of the afterlife. So Bart goes all the way back to the Greeks and worked his way up to the present. We discuss all of that of course as well as modern problems and concepts with the problem of evil. the Odyssey and you know how Christians deal with where people go who are not Christian or never even heard of Christianity or the Bible or anything in the Western World What happens to them after they die and so forth anyway I always loved Bard. Is you'll hear at the start of this. Because he somebody who was a believer he knows as much about the Bible as anybody who is a professional believing theologian and yet he doesn't believe why not So we get into all of that and his personal history On that and and then how. He got into researching writing subjects. Like that so without further. Ado please enjoy Bart Ehrman..
"ehrman" Discussed on 860AM The Answer
"Dennis Prager show a the play earlier of the of the live broadcast Mitt Romney these answering to god not to the team so god in in the in his view believes that America will be a would be a better place if the Democrats succeeded in removing the president from the presidency so look I've I've often so all of my life religion religiosity doesn't guarantee wisdom there are there are foolish religious people however generally speaking the Bible centered have more wisdom than the secular that's why I think this is a more wisdom among evangelicals van at the Princeton but so the that's that's how we deal with these things he's a very foolish man and that that does not see the the great the great picture all of his colleagues you see the it's an amazing thing I would like to ask him so let me ask you do what do you believe any of your colleagues also answer the card as a sincerely if you do I'm sure it say yes so would say well you both can't be right so you were alone of all the god fearing Republicans in the country you alone or there were at least in the house and the Senate to port which Maryland you alone read god correctly okay it might be possible but that's that's the that's the state even amazing it's just it is amazing as I've gotten older I have come to realize that wisdom and foolishness or the or the the the key factors not good intentions not sincerity nothing wisdom is the issue all right I have to move on here so there's a very moving thing I'm going to skip the president's introduction in the what say where were we up to here eleven yes Charles McGee it was the the the the last surviving to ski Ehrman the first black fighter pilots everybody cheered like crazy our racist president honoring this Tuskegee airman how do you comport those of you who think he's a racist how do you how do you deal with this cognitive dissonance of his honoring of the public honoring of blacks god so far gone I'm not sure of the even go to cognitive dissonance that is another one me as another blow a black kid was there with his mom's single parent this was about school choice that may hurt for blacks who really do care about blacks and whites are into mesmerized by the Democrats look not only blacks are mesmerized Jews are mesmerized Asians are mesmerized what people were mesmerized water whites are but if you really care about what's good for black school choice is one of the biggest things you could think think of that's pro black and the Democrats were postage okay number thirteen tonight I ask Congress to support our students and back my plan to or for vocational and technical education in every single high school it's.
Slaughterhouse owner Marin Sun Farms will no longer process animals for private labels
"The company that owns the only U. S. D. A. certified slaughterhouse in the bay area plans to stop processing animals from small meat producers KQED is Peter Jon Shuler reports the announcement by Marin sun farms has left local ranchers and farmers feeling let down scrambling to figure out how to continue their businesses progressive pastors specialty rancher Pamela total yet so the next closest facility is five hours away any piece of agricultural infrastructure that is lost in our area is really going to impact the food that we are able to source and eat and provide to our friends and family Marin sun co owner clear Ehrman jarred says it was a difficult decision made after the company lost several key managers overseeing the federal inspection process she said the company would reconsider the decision at the end of next year's first