39 Burst results for "Edward Snowden"
Fresh update on "edward snowden" discussed on Useful Idiots with Matt Taibbi and Katie Halper
"Not, their political enemies so I don't think jurisprudence is helpful. You just have to be an observer trying to fit together people's actions and words I guess I met partially in terms of the criminality of what assange and Snowden right manning did well, you know sadly after World War One you know in the midst of the red scare and so forth there these laws passed that regrettably give the you know. The American prosecutors enormous powers to pursue anyone. But you know the amazing thing is that they haven't been used and and yet then you get. Obama, who begins to? Pursue leakers very seriously much more seriously than even during the Cold War. And with the lower whistle blowers and trump trump is selectively following suit although as we talked about the other day, it's it's like an extraordinary fact that in the last weeks of the Obama Administration, some of us were calling from to use the pardon power for Snowden and that didn't happen but trump like openly talks about. The fact that he might pardon snowden. I'm sure he won't. But it's it's kind of an extraordinary thing to to kind of compare these to. This the guys in that? Respect I will I bet you that if he doesn't pardon him, it's GonNa be because he was swayed by Susan Rice is tweet. Which response to the possibility of trouble Klay in response was, as I just can't. No it's it's it's that was totally amazing. A tweet in it it it. It's a revelatory of just the the you know the assumptions that rain within this very narrow and really geographically. Narrow set of people who are just used to rule. Thank. The American national security establishment is entitled to power really without any. Broader ethics. Or broader. Conceptual defense of like wool. What didn't didn't Edward Snowden do an immorally honorable thing that Americans should embrace because it revealed something about you know what their servants in their name. But I. Don't think we can rely on Susan Rice for that kind of insight. We we do know that. You know she will be exercising a lot of power come January twentieth unless disaster strikes and trump wins again, it just the last thing I have quickly about that just so that the I I understand legally what you're talking about. So Obama prosecute a lot of people under the espionage act. Would, and there were some sort of like the Official Secrets Act type laws that have been on the books for a while. Does that mean they've they've always had the ability if they wanted to to go after people for say obtaining possessing National what they call? National Defense Information. This would this would be the first time that they've really done it in this in this context right with a publication or or a immediate case I guess Ryan got papers can't qualifies right but yeah. Yeah. Yeah except but that was that was then exempted by First Amendment claims. You know. It's it's extraordinary bill bar gave this speech the other day. which was really about defending himself against accusations that he'd. Protected trump's cronies which he did. But the the content of the speech was about the the high principle which we should all kinds of reacquaint ourselves with that just because the state can prosecute. Individuals under existing laws doesn't mean that it's right or necessary to do so. And that the the extraordinary power that our laws give prosecutors should always be leavened by discretion and forbearance. And that wasn't the story under Obama and you know the ironic thing is that it hasn't been the story under trump except for trump's cronies embarks protected and yet the principles that bar was defending in that speech you know we don't kind of teach them. Including two prosecutors themselves than we'll have. A, we'll have really failed. Just, quickly, more questions from me. One is returning to the type of nominee You think Biden would I mean I think what you said it makes sense which is that his defense of plans, Tom Mrs, more kind of a product of its time, not a predictor who he would appoint today that, and then I gotta ask you because what political pipe casts without a discussion of Tolstoy and And humane war and the dangers of arguing for humane more. So yeah, if you could just address on the on the first point, you know Biden's already said much as he said with the Vice President shall pick that he will nominate a black woman. which again just shows that he is is is a weathervane. You know he is responding to the ethical and optical priorities of the mainstream of the Democratic Party. Because you know like all politicians and we should just accept this he he cares about You know acquiring power. He's not someone on whom we should rely to. You know to to to think that hard about how to wield it what matters is who's around him, and what the broader sentiment of the country is and that's why this court discussion is. So important because to me, it matters much less who is in power. Than what their power is, and that should be that that that changing changing that question is what we really ought to be thinking about when it comes to the Supreme Court. Yeah no I've I've been work in spite of what was said about kind of how American wars become more endless and unfettered. And bled beyond you know time and space constraints the abusively a math. It's also become more humane during the war on terror and kind of in an almost like you know tag team. Relationship between the successive presidents If you do compare the war on terror Vietnam not just as they're much more immunity for American soldiers but the the the death toll relatively and absolutely both of our enemies and of broader Kinda civilian populations are falling. And that's because you know for some reason in our time, which we could talk about like humane wars become legitimate to a lot of people We had a big torture debate after March two, thousand and four when the Abu Ghraib photos were released. Unlike when the me lie photos were were released and Cy Hirsch told the story in one, thousand, nine, hundred, sixty, nine there was no antiwar movement and the revelations of of brutality and inhumanity add fuel to the fire of a political of political attempt to stop war, and so the Abu Ghraib and the torture debate the concern about Guantanamo to function very differently to let's say, remove the bugs from a program of endless.
Fresh update on "edward snowden" discussed on Useful Idiots with Matt Taibbi and Katie Halper
"Unethical that there needed to be major reforms. Amazingly inspite of the the lot of the resistance discourse in the past few years doesn't seem like there's a lot of appetite for having that kind of moment after trump leaves the White House you'd think it would have to do with a lot of things not just the low hanging fruit like forcing presidents to share their medical records and taxes making sure that there are rules against the kind of. Naked corruption and self dealing in which trump and his friends have engaged in. But also like giving another look at the presidency, we created under under you know prior executives that trump inherited an and maybe above all in the war making contact. So after Vietnam and Nixon, there was this war powers resolution which Nixon actually vetoed but passed anyway and it it was intended to force Congress back into the. Cockpit. Of War Making as the founders had designed it in the first place. That law has been basically reduced to meaninglessness not just by Republicans. But by Democrats like Barack Obama during the Libyan intervention and it seems as if there, there would be a chance after trump given the recriminations around the killing of cost also lemani. Just the the extraordinary fears that trump would engage the United States in an another endless war, another aspect of endless where you'd have like a moment to. Put some new. Tread on the war powers resolution just doesn't seem like that's going to happen. It would be nice if it did but it would be great. If we could. You know could could generate the political will. To make people take seriously the rhetoric they've deployed about about what trump has meant for the United States I I worry that after he falls, it's it's as if there will be a lot of scapegoating or what I've called trump washing and people will say the problem was trump not the presidency, and in effect we'll have a restoration of the status quo ante where you know people in both parties will would rather have the powerful precedent in spite of trump than engage in this kind of reform. Hasn't been one of the big tensions for his entire tenure is he gets into office and suddenly. Now, the president has all these different curiel with authorities that that he didn't have no not terribly long ago including all the surveillance authority The Dick Cheney built consumer state within a state kind of stuff, and they've they've crafted the critique of trump over the last forty years to be almost directed solely at him and not. Is Political Authority. It feels like they're they're trying to sidestep so that they don't have to make any institution I think that's right. I mean that that's been clear all along. I. Mean it's been a worry of some some of ours all along I mean it was most graphic in the midst of impeachment where you had some on the left and right you know propose that we wish should maybe not approve the National Defense Authorization Act. But at the very heart of the that those weeks of impeachment you have people who were leading at like Adam shift. Fully involved in just signing off on this annual ritual of. Approval of massive military spending the those like Ro Khanna Bernie Sanders who like say, let's let's take a moment now that trump has inherited our. Of Surveillance and security stay to kind of take a look at it and decide to spend you know our our federal dollars in in just a slightly different way and the mainstream refuses. So you know it is a tragedy that. We won't come out of this administration repealing the two thousand and one authorization for the use of military force, which as you alluded to has been used kind of as an almost. Endless war on the installment plan permission slip, and there have been really interesting insights in the trump administration not just because of the way he's used that surveillance state but the way it's been used against him. And how the you know Inspector General's report in particular on when when the when the Federal Bureau of Investigation can open investigations and so forth these these have provided insights into the. Security State that are chilling and that would rare. Rare. And yet the we miss an opportunity to look pass trump. And figure out how in a way trump is exploiting powers that we gave him that the resistance is exploiting powers that they not they ought not to. Have, and and think about the kind of fundamental reform I mean it suggests that. That some of the critics aren't serious that when the air was this this really dreadful President Richard Nixon. Who inherited that Cold War state you know scandalized people actually. For the bombing of Cambodia legally and so forth there was a kind of national consensus that something had gone really wrong and the presidency needed to be reined in, and it's not GonNa happen as far as I can tell and it just it just I think reveal some of the hypocrisy about recent discourse and about the fact that people are hoping that trump is like an aberration and we can go back to the way things were them ruling them using these extraordinary and unaccountable powers for their ends it doesn't feel like there's a church committee hearing coming up in the future. Now I haven't I haven't heard any proposals for that. There are some proposals. Post trump reform and you can find You know a really good account of what of some of the ideas in a recent book by. Of some some former administration officials after trump. Many of them are kind of low hanging fruit. That you know are are crucial for good governance like. Fighting the last war hoping that someone like trump you know basically corrupt you know transactional kind of con artists doesn't get back into power and making sure that he's hemmed in or she if that should happen but it's as if like those little things you know however important are masking the the much more disturbing realities that ought to have been revealed and whether we ought to face seriously that's not going to happen and can you. Talk about. Something, that I had you on my show, the other day and something that I brought up was an man I've talked about is this very hypocrisy around the issue of assange and Snowden and Manning. Where you have, you know a virtual silence among media the same media that says that trump is attacking speeches attacking the media violates rule of love. Goes against norms. These same people also praised Obama, and then we have a case where Obama decided not to go after assange. Trump. And pompeo are going after him What is the kind of Besides the obvious poxy. What are your thoughts on those cases from a jurisprudential perspectives? that. You Know I. I, don't think jurisprudence adds a lot in this case it's you know it's it's just you know the ordinary citizen looking on and kind of trying to reckon with the hypocrisy and selectivity and and and really trying to understand why you know given the heroism of someone like Edward Edward Snowden, which nonetheless led him to be widely reviled in some of these beltway circles trump gets into office and suddenly everyone's for. Transparency and you know the the National Security State is is scary to the extent trump. Has Power over it and heroic to the extent that it targets him and it just seems like. A rhetoric masking the the GRUBBY angling for power within Washington and like the big the bigger ethical issues about what kind of state ought to have, what kind of powers off the president and the you know the the CIA and FBI have you know got bracketed because what what most of these voices care about is you know that they get to hold an exercise those powers..
Fresh update on "edward snowden" discussed on Democracy Now! Audio
"Discard the outer shell took the security envelope in a mile to be opened again, so that the ballots can be scanned. That's just a whole process that doesn't exist for in-person belts and took most States forbid election authorities to start doing this review and opening the outer envelope until election day itself. And so there's no way that wage. They can handle the anticipated volume of mail in ballots now. And so those are going to come in overtime in in the days following the election for some reason. It's not fully explained. These overtime counts have trended Democratic in recent years since about the past twenty years and so it is known and predictable that the overtime count is going to shift blue and that's why Trump is trying to deal legitimate of the idea of mailing ballots at all and by doing so he is actually skewing the blue shift even more. He is guaranteeing wage that his own voters will avoid mail-in ballots because they believed him and let's just emphasize that what he's saying about mail ballots is fabricated. It's made up out of whole cloth off. Mail ballots have been used successfully and with vanishingly repair attempts at fraud for decades. So he's not making that up and usually Democrats voting more mail in at this point during the pandemic because they see covid-19 real and more Republican see it as a conspiracy off. That's right. That's right. But the advantage for Trump of a dividing the electorate in this particular way is that he can challenge mail votes off without worrying very much that he is that he is in validating his own voters. Ballots that just by the odds if you manage to squelch a mail-in ballot at every single one that you managed to invalidate a much more likely to a democratic vote than a republican, but we just have a minute to go. But what are Democrats and Republicans who are deeply alarmed about this and Independence and Grains doing to counter this. Well, they're they're trying to they're trying to win the battle for public opinion about the validity of mail-in ballots and it's not clear how well known networks. The the president is extremely good at creating impressions of chaos. They are fighting a forty-one strong legal battle that's been going on all year to ensure that mail-in ballots are counted to try to get them counted early birth to there's this sort of beneath the surface struggle over the rules to make sure that every ballot is counted and they are trying to imagine what Trump will do that is out of the norm on Election Day and afterward during this interregnum between election day and inauguration day off. And that's the crucial 79 day. That I focus on in my piece for the Atlantic Barton. Gellman. We thank you so much for being with us staff writer the Atlantic we're going to link your peace their wage called the election that could break America and congratulations on your new book dark mirror Edward Snowden and the American surveillance State. This is Jim crasy. Now as we end this segment, let's hear from President Trump speaking to delegates at the Republican National Convention last month. The only way they can take this election off away from us is if this is a rigged election, we're going to win this election. What they're doing is using covered to steal an election right rear brake fluid to defraud the American people all of our people love affair and free elections are actually on Thursday afternoon independent, Senator Bernie Sanders age. First spoke out responding to Trump's remarks. I think it is terribly important that we actually listen to and take seriously what Donald Trump is saying several weeks ago speaking at the Republican National Convention from said and I quote them. The only way they can take this election away from us is if this is a rigged election, and of course what is remarkable about that statement is that he made it any time when almost every National poll had him behind and when he was trailing in polls most Battleground States think about what that statement means thought about what that statement means what he is saying is that if he wins the election, that's great. What are your few losses it's rigged because the only way the only way he can lose is if it's rigged and if it's rigged off and he is not leaving office heads. I win tails you lose in other words in Trump's mind. There is no conceivable way that he should leave office. And this is how independent Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont ended his address in this unprecedented moment. What can we as a people in the struggle to preserve American democracy first? It is absolutely imperative that we have by far the largest voter turnout in American history and that people vote as early as possible. But someone who strongly supporting Joe Biden, let's be clear a landslide victory for Biden will make it virtually impossible for Trump to deny the results and is our best means of Defending democracy second with the pandemic and a massive increase in mail-in voting state legislators must take immediate action. Now now to allow mail-in votes to be counted before election day as they come in. In fact thirty two states allow for the counting of processing of off-balance verifying signatures, for example, before election day all states should do the same the faster all ballots are counted the less window. There is for chaos conspiracy theories third, the news media needs to prepare the American people to understand there is no longer a single election day and that it is very possible that we may not know. Yep. Results on November 3rd fourth social media companies must finally get their act together and stop people from using their tools to spread this information age and to threaten an arrest election officials in the Congress and State legislatures hearings must be held as soon as possible to explain to the public office how the election day process and the days that follow will be handled as we count every vote and prevent voter intimidation. Everything possible must be done to prevent chaos this information. And yes, even violence lastly and most importantly American people no matter what their political view but make it clear that American democracy will not be destroyed. Senator Bernie Sanders speaking in Washington DC Thursday in his first major public speech since bowing out of the presidential race coming up will speak to one of the most powerful religious leaders in the country Bishop Michael Curry presiding Bishop of the Episcopal Church the first African American to lead the denomination stay with us off.
Fresh update on "edward snowden" discussed on Stay Tuned with Preet
"Don't think it matters whether administrations continues. You know what I mean th th th the spying continues no matter who's in place you know look under President Obama all kinds of stuff going on you know and same thing with George Bush. That that sort of operates separate from although you know Donald Trump is attacking the spike complex but really the affecting it who knows right? It's still keeps I'm sure it's keeps going on with whoever's in office and it's the question of how much control we have over that and obviously I think the the the major. Moment of course was well to moments. One was the creation of the Internet by spy agencies, right? Really. The Defense Department not spies, but it was a communication system, but it was also you know the people understood its implications, all kinds of patients and I think the last thing people understood was it's commercial implications, which is where it's become. So powerful right and made so many people so wealthy. But it was designed as a government communications tool, and so just the existence of it within a Darpa was was the beginning of all this right and so then you move to different areas of using all these different tools whether they be surveillance tools or cameras, or tapping into things or or whatever, and you get to Edward Snowden, which I think is was the great moment of I did pretty. Long interview with him just recently where you were, you get to this moment where he reveals just how how much the government was using these information systems and tapping into them, and that was a really problematic moment for the relationship between tech and government. The US government I, think it was it came at a terrible time because there's a lot that these companies need to do to cooperate with. Government to fend off things like Russian election interference or Iranian grid problems. There's all kinds of things that the tech companies do need to be in touch and and good relationships with the government around right now of all things talk know I don't think they're the biggest threat to our democracy but okay, there's more important things they need to cooperate on but I do think the Edward Snowden thing really did. Put a wrench in that relationship in terms of that, these companies work who operated with the government and they didn't realize the extent that the government was still going around them in secret ways and manipulating, their their businesses to do you think it was genuine outraged in surprise and feel of distrust or some of them yes. I think they knew they were there but I think a lot of. Ways there was a lot of them were surprised by the extent of it though the tapping into the systems without their knowledge I I don't know why they were surprised I. Agree with you. It's like. Are you kidding of course the government spies as much? Because spy stuff they're going to spy and so but I, think, yes, I think there was sort of is sort of an indignation like. We we're willing to go through systems to, but not go around us in the way that you did that we didn't have knowledge because what you know a lot of their businesses across the world going or based on trust on some level that the spies aren't going to be in their necessarily unless we know about them and so I, do think yeah. I. Do think there was a real cut. And then they hadn't didn't have the kind of relationship they needed to have as the Russian started to step up their election interfere and says the Chinese moved in Iranians. All kinds of other players started to do different things ranging from cure hacking too much more effective way to affect things, which is misinformation and disinformation which are separate things was a way for a little while. So there was somehow. Manage to to lose a war of words in values with Putin's Russia. Over what's safer and you see them take advantage of it. So this lack of trust snowden in into that void Russia's Russia China lesser extent Iran North Korea. Well, you know Russia's a criminal government. Let's be honest like come on. It's always has been for a long time and so here's the thing they lose the Cold War as they should because their countries inadequate compared to the United States on every level and lose it lose it rather significantly but here they have. These tools that aren't quite as expensive as having tanks and missiles and weapons systems and star wars, whatever it is, and here they can hit again and so the the tools they're using are inexpensive and effective, which is to create discord here to create problems to break NATO to you know they don't need a million tanks on the border they need this information they need to have a they have a president who who says bad things about NATO. But to spread sort of. Information and get support for those ideas and so the you know they lost the cold. War But are winning the information war, which is, which is where you can operate in the shadows and you can do in a real shadows right and so we have not done enough to understand that is the goal is to create the you know I think people know it now but is to create discord and questioning of instant whether it's institutions or flood the zone with all kinds. Of Weird content that is easily shared, I mean, these systems are perfect for propaganda and in a way that's hard to ferret out and hard to stop once it's out. So we just taking back you said Russia's winning the information where do think that's true today or was true yes I do I don't think we've have control of this every day you know who knows who's behind you know and it's not just Russia's everyone who has a point of view the Anti Sers, right? There now putting out I just had some people from the Oxford Internet Institute and others on talking about what the just information means going on now and a lot of them have to do with. If you take the here's a good example you take the flu vaccine, the regular flu vaccine and you'll get cope it like of course you want do you need to take the flu vaccine right and so they're trying to sort of get this idea that you shouldn't be taking any vaccines and so that's just vaccines and then there's the in on people who you know on its face if you sat down. With someone and said, there's a cabal of democratic politicians that are trying to create a child sex ring. People will be like like you know what I mean but he creates this idea of information that gets around and that's a whole nother thang and then there's the Chinese that are very active. You know in terms of trying to say that they aren't fed fault for this for cove in nineteen, and then you have the Russians trying to create all kinds of content that's confusing around anti five all kinds of stuff like you know it just it goes it could go in so many different directions and so. As long as you're willing to make a mess, you win in this environment and let me you mentioned it in passing you the tick tick tock and.
Football Leaks trial to start in Portugal
"Is due to begin today in Portugal of a computer hacker who leaked the documents exposing dubious deals involving top football clubs, agents and players. Rui Pinto's Football League's Web site release large numbers of secret documents that triggered criminal investigations into leading players in several countries. The face is 90 criminal charges, including computer fraud, attempted extortion and violating privacy of correspondence. Listen, Roberts reports from Lisbon. Why Pinto faces 90 charges, including attempted extortion relating to the computer hacking of the Lisbon Football Club, sporting the Portuguese Football Federation and the office of the attorney general. The 31 year old hacker was in prison on remand for over a year before being transferred to house arrest and then last month released after agreeing to collaborate on other cases. Among witnesses called by the defense in this case are the head of Portugal's criminal investigation. Police and the US whistleblower Edward Snowden, one
Rui Pinto Football Leaks trial starts in Portugal
"A trial is due to begin today in Portugal of a computer hacker who leaked the documents exposing dubious deals involving top football clubs, agents and players. Rui Pinto's Football League's Web site, release large numbers of secret documents that triggered criminal investigations into leading players in several countries. He faces 90 criminal charges, including computer fraud, attempted extortion and violating privacy of correspondence. Listen, Roberts reports from Lisbon. Pipin to faces 90 charges, including attempted extortion relating to the computer hacking of the Lisbon Football Club, sporting the Portuguese Football Federation and the office of the attorney general. The 31 year old hacker was in prison on remand for over a year before being transferred to house arrest and then last month released after agreeing to collaborate on other cases. Among witnesses called by the defense in this case are the head of Portugal's criminal investigation, Police and the US whistleblower Edward Snowden.
"edward snowden" Discussed on Recode Decode
"The person you are actually writing the only people who can read the communication are the people at the ends of the communication, not all of these faceless men in the middle. The closer we get to these Paradigm, the more the balance of power shifts, and now these companies. Now, these governments begin to need asking for permission whether it's from courts or whether it's from people. All right. Three more tiny questions. Do you believe you're guilty of any crimes got I'm committing guilty of so many crimes? Are you guilty of crimes have you spent? That's the thing you can't exist. I think. I'm going to let that one. Go You answer it? Do you believe that people would know about mass surveillance if you worked for you? The question is really more public consciousness. There were people who had good grounds to believe mass surveillance existed or even had a certainty surveillance existed before I came forward again, there had been reporting on this. There've been court cases about this. But it didn't penetrate the the public consciousness. because. It was allegation right It was speculation and this is what people miss again about the importance of two thousand thirteen. Surveillance was the topic of conversation. But the importance of the conversation was about democracy. It's so clear today. When we see all of the allegation rhetoric being passed around that if we are going to forge a public consensus. We have to have access to a shared set of facts that are mutually agreed upon and what twenty thirteen did. Was it moved the conversation from speculation to certainty from allegation to fact, and the distance between speculation. In fact, in a democracy is everything because it does not matter what you know. It does not matter what you are. Sure is true. It only matters what you can prove to other people although you are you a certain Malays sets in and everyone just accepts it but that's another that's another topic. Into that you know people are like, yeah I'm being spied on I. got it. But but in that context I, think it's actually very common to say people don't care to say accept it but I've given talks. I ages about this and the response that I get. When when I hear questions about that, when asked about people actually care the care very much but they feel powerless to trinity verifying so they adopt a period a position. Of. Laissez faire I don't care as a psychological coping mechanisms otherwise you are being victimized and that's a difficult to live with. All right. I'm going to read the first sentence said, this is the last question is actually is for Monica Lewinsky my name is Edward Joseph Snowden I used to work for the government but now I work for the public it took me nearly three decades to recognize that there was this distinction and when I did it got me into a bit of trouble at the office. Make. A bit of trouble What would you feel? This is real Monica Lewinsky. What would you feel is the best ending to your story I e, where does he hope to see himself in five to ten years and I would add on? It seems like a Lonely Life Edward What you've done where many people think. Other people think you're a trader. Some people think you're a hero but you are essentially by yourself with with Lindsay who you since married a cat I'm sure there's cats involved. Love cats it's GONNA. Say Actually I'm this is the irony that I think a lot of people don't understand appreciate about technologists. I was far more alone before twenty thirteen than I am today. As you said with Lindsay and hopefully, I'll never be alone again. Which is a great comfort even in exile. But I signed up to serve overseas right I. volunteered to go to Geneva place. I didn't speak the language I volunteered to go to Japan. This for me from my perspective is just another foreign on behalf of the United States. I'm just working for. The People broadly rather than an agency but when you think about that that thing. I had never been more connected to a wider world than when I'm looking at a screen and to a lot of people that seems weird. But for me, that's what I love. I like to be able to reach different people in different places and I think this is the fundamental promise of the Internet. It ties US beyond distance ties US beyond culture ties, US beyond language, and it builds bonds of fraternity. It can create an understanding and that for me is the great hope we are today living in a time of division. and. We are living in a time of constant exploitation I and it is because an imbalance of power. When I think about the future, I don't think about You know when I think about what the future looks like it's not a good future for me. It's how we heal. It's how things get better. If things. Get better. For the Internet if things get better for the United States, they will get better for me and there will be a day when I will be home. Thank you. All right. Edward I have to say I think you're still in love with the Internet may have never existed unfortunately it's really interesting. That was very. But that's okay like that disagreement that that space for just completely contrasting as to see the same things that spectrum of human perception. That's what makes a beautiful said you still believe you're very rex. Speaker the truth are men DEX speaker of A. All all of that stuff is misinterpreted as. Bad. But I will say there's one moment in the the thing is sort. that. People say Speaker of truth I don't want anyone trust me that's actually point. The whistle blower doesn't matter. The provenance of the information doesn't matter the authenticity of the truth of that's what matters. It's okay to doubt me. It's okay not to trust me. It's okay to think bad guy fine but use that skepticism that I lacked so many years ago and then apply that to the people in society who actually wheel power actually wield influence. Not Whistleblowers who are going to spend. So much of their life in exile right I will say one of the most working parts of the book is you looking at the kid in Indonesia? through the screen, it was not a good way to see people across the world. I think that was a great moment in the book and I would recommend people read this Edward Thank you so much. This has been very much longer than we thought but it's a really terrifically written book Joshua Cohen help you and novelist is correct. I had was very fortunate. I've got a a good friend of mine one of my closest competence and lawyer Ben Wisner He's very literal guy and he had a very literary friend Joshua Cohen which for me I'd never written a book on my own before. He's one of the greatest novelists I've lost. He was a tremendous resource to help me structure this and think about how I could tell my story in any case I really appreciated if anyone whatever your opinion about Edward Snowden is you should read this book. It's a really important embracing document about where we are and I do believe in part I. It's hard to figure out why you did what you did but I think you did there was a great Romance with the Internet here, that's a really interesting part that I was surprised about, and also some of the thoughts on where we should go. We'll see what happens to you over time. We definitely will if not. I don't speak Russian them and I hope that you keep speaking out especially about the issues of transparency and and the use of data against its citizenry and the lack of transparency, and that is perhaps the greatest contribution whatever again people think of what you've done and how you did it people understanding and understanding what they're consenting to is I think the most important part of any message that you or anyone else's delivering in any case. Thank you. Thank you for everything you do in key. It's not working it's not working. Thank you so much. All.
Barr says he would be "vehemently opposed" to pardoning Snowden
"William Barr says he would be vehemently opposed to pardoning former NSA contractor Edward Snowden. He made the comment to The Associated Press days after President Trump said he would look at possibly pardoning Snowden.
Virginia Becomes First State to Try Covidwise Pandemic App From Apple, Google
"The first Bluetooth exposure notification APP has launched in Virginia and it's called covert. Wise. The APP uses Bluetooth chirps to detect if you've been in close contact with someone who has tested positive while it's very easy to use or to really be effective in needs widespread adoption. Jeffrey Fowler Tech Columnist at The Washington Post joins us for this useful APP with very little privacy risk. Thanks for joining US Jeffrey. Wanted to talk about this APP out of Virginia, it's called COVID. Wise. It's an exposure notification APP using Bluetooth on your phone. So you might have some other contact tracing APPs with regards to corona virus. One is a Little Different Your Bluetooth sends out pins basically, and if you've come into contact with somebody for more than fifteen minutes and you're within six feet distance, the APP might tell you you've been exposed then you can go get a test all that. Usually we bring you on on the PODCAST Jeff, we're talking about privacy with apps and things like that, and in this case you've kind. Of, run. This thing through many tests and you've kind of come to the conclusion that your privacy really is an at risk and it would actually be a benefit if people were a lot of people downloaded this thing so we can try to keep this thing under control. So Jeff, tell us a little bit about covert wise and the tests you ran through it and what your conclusions were. Nobody was more surprised than me. The big problems that a lot of these APPs and the idea of using our phones to help track exposure to the coronavirus has had is that people frankly just don't trust tech companies and they just don't trust the government and I can't blame you companies have done very little to earn that trust and Edward Snowden taught us all that the government really can't be trusted either. But that said when Google and apple this. Spring got together and said, Hey, they thought that they had figured out a way to make our phones useful for figuring out if we were exposed to some of krona virus I was intrigued because they said they were going to build it from the ground up with privacy in mind. So we finally got the first of these in the US in the state of Virginia Colbert wise and it came out earlier in August and it was there I was like. We gotTA test. We got to see if they really live up to the promises and from everything we've been able to tell so far from our testing I've had thirty five colleagues at the post to live in Virginia and they're all testing for me. We learn two things. First thing we learned is that that doesn't seem to be really much of a privacy risk here these APPs Bluetooth to communicate to phones nearby they don't collect your location they don't. Send information about where you've been a her you've been in contact with to the government. It's actually a pretty clever system looked under the hood as well. Just just to double check they weren't sending out more information than than they claim and they work. That was the first thing. The second thing we learned is we still don't know actually this idea is going to work very well, those thirty five Washington Post colleagues who were testing them none of them got. -cation from this APP over a ten day period. Now, that could be for many reasons. It could be like they were just being really good at social distancing. It means that not many people around them. We're using it or it could mean that there's some problems with the idea that the phones can do this. But only way we're going to really figure that out is if a lot more people try it and that's one of the interesting parts experts estimate that up to sixty percent of the population needs to be using these exposure apps for them to. Be. Effective. So in Virginia that means they need about five million people to download it. But in its first weeks, covert wise got three hundred and eighty thousand downloads so very far short of that number needed. But there's other things that are kind of become a problem with this is in Virginia just by itself, but there's no big national system. So say you travel between states just whatever you come into contact with somebody else maybe using a different APP it's not this cold wise one. You know it's not all going to work. So seamlessly America's APP expeditionary. Strategy suffers from. Some of the same problems as the rest of our coronavirus strategy and that it's very local based very steep based. So as it set up right now in the United States, every state health department would have to make their own version of one of these APPs fads expressed any interest even though in other countries, it is kind of national government that's been working on these kinds of APPs. The good news is that about twenty states? Now have said that they're working on these kinds of Virginia three more joint it. So we already four out there in the wild and has been announced and effort that would make these absolute communicate with each other a little bit so that you could cross state borders with it. So that's a work in progress but not there yet,
Trump says he will look 'very strongly' at granting pardon to whistleblower Edward Snowden
"Snowden may be able to stop hiding out in Russia President Donald Trump's considering pardoning the former NSA contractor who's been in Russia. It's leaking intel that said, the U. S government buying honest, I mean, I'm not that aware of the Snowden situation, but I was looking at it. There are many, many people. It seems to be a split decision that many people think that hey, should be somehow created differently, and other people think he did very bad things and I'm going to take a very good look at it. In 2016 the president said he thought Snowden is a traitor, and he would deal with him harshly.
Trump wants to ban Tik Tok
"Actually let's talk a little bit about Tick Tock today I performed this morning. An Act of rebellion. I downloaded installation talk on my iphone because who knows how much longer I'll be able to do it it's very confusing I don't know what's going on. Tick Tock, which is owned by the Chinese company Bite Dance Safest that committee. Or foreign investment in the United. States apparently is investigating I. Think they actually issued a ruling saying that like, wow away tick tock was a threat to the United States One of the ways tiktok became really big as by acquiring a couple years ago musically, which is really I think from what I see on. tiktok kind of the backbone of what Tick Tock is these days, which is lip synching or acting or dancing to an original track It's it's very entertaining. It's a it's probably the most engaging social network out there. But apparently, it's a threat to our way of life. On Friday the president on Air Force One. said that he was about to ban it as soon as yesterday. From the United States I'm not sure under what law safest can do it I think. But I don't know if the president can by executive order banning application. then for the last week Microsoft Been. Negotiating to buy the American rights to talk to kind of create a tick tick Tock America that would be separate from the Chinese bite. Dance. TIKTOK. But then the president says I'M GONNA ban it but I don't want anybody to buy it. So, micro-. Microsoft said. Threw their hands off and said figure it out and there. They didn't end the conversation with bite dance. Apparently, they were fairly close but they're not forwarding it until they find out what happens I'm GonNa make a prediction. Nothing is going to happen except now people are going to download and use TIKTOK. Brianna is tick tock a threat to national security. It's not a unique threat to national security. We need to have a conversation about the kinds of information social media APPS are able to download from our phones. We all remember the scandals of facebook on android downloading your tire phone list gang everyone you've ever called. We need to have a conversation about that, but there's there's really no evidence that what Tiktok is pulling is any greater than what you know facebook instagram these other social media sites are. Pulling so far. So we need a wider discussion about that. How's it just want to say I wish I could tell you this was just trump in the Republicans that would make me very happy. My heart broke today to see Chuck Schumer on the Sunday morning shows advocating the same thing tech talk. So you know it's it is we need to have a conversation about national security and the amount of information were giving up but it's I think. To just focus on TIKTOK. Sign of. Phobia. Or Zena Phobia Paris, you seem like a Tiktok user. I that's only because you're younger than. I. Did recently re downloaded when this whole. Wanted to make sure that I had it. I'm sure is a common response. I agree with everything the Brown said in the sense that I don't know I've been particularly disturbed by. The reactions to take talks, data collection both from the left and right and just. Experts in the tech field generally over the past couple of months because it is definitely coming from a place of seeing phobia. I mean, we have so many different. American. Made APPS that. Do many of the same things I mean one thing that I've seen noted quite often as to talk has the ability to see what you've. You know copied near Clipboard when guests so do most of the apps you have on your phone. Is Operatives. It's not a tiktok specific problem. This came up because of Iowa's fourteen, which is in public Beta now so people are suddenly using it and dozens of applications. I. Think must be a library that they all subscribe to infect somebody a couple of weeks ago. Somebody told me that it was. Ad Library I use of what a clearly noninvasive program from panic software Call Code editor, which lets me log into my Server. with SSh and and edit files and things like that and it was. I got the same thing that you get on Iowa's fourteen O, coders looking clipboard every time I typed to character. Now I don't think coded only panic software famous for an FTP program and this H. Program is at spying on me obviously, they're not. they're using the same code library. So it's a, it's a, it's a bug. That's what Lincoln Microsoft's linked in said as well. So. I think it's also just one of those things where if you're building an APP especially in. The Tom I. Don't know there was a time when absence of for being built were there wasn't this conversation about security and privacy. Why would map designers not take the position of? Yeah. All the things maybe we'll need that information talk said quite credibly. We're just looking to see if you put a url on your clipboard so we can pasted in. That seems credible I. Don't know if you need to do it every single time I type of character that seems like more that book I can tell you firsthand from developing an Iowa it's often easiest just to get it submitted to the APP store to take a bunch of permissions and It's just it's like you're trying to debugging in. Store, to accept it is just quirky. I can't tell you how many times I in other APP developers have. Just it's a very, very quirky system. So I, think this is just in Beta. I think it's really important to point out as far as the impetus for this I personally do not think it's a coincidence that tiktok was widely credited for disrupting trump's Tulsa rally a couple of weeks ago and Sarah Cooper is so famous for she's making five star she's she's amazing and those videos are brutal to trump and I I don't. That's a coincidence. She does trump limps licks lip sync. And I was talking to a friend said you know is the trump on TV I can't understand what he's saying but then I watched Cooper and that makes sense Sarah ads expressions and Gestures and all kinds of makes sense all of us and so I don't think the president should be so quick to to not like Sarah purchase he's adding context Might have something to do with it certainly in his mind because we know. You know. I don't know what he's going to do to Cape Pop stands because they were the other the other group that apparently figured out that you could register took on trump's team has got to be wise enough to know you can't take on the capons stands. Being. The capon stands the United States would crumble. Yes. That would be it would be over right. You just can't win against the K pop stands So. They were both advocating people sign up for the Tulsa Rally and not not show and Honestly the fault lies with Brad Par Scout trump's former campaign manager and his campaign team for believing all those registrations and building a giant outdoor stage. Giant parking lot so that the millions of people who are going to be coming because they all registered would have somewhere to be, and then I loved. Well, I shouldn't say that that sounds partisan was interesting to see the one person with the baby stroller in that giant area and the rest of the arena half full or third full So I could see why he might be a little angry about that. Is there. No, Matt. And I'm not putting you in the position of speaking for the government I want to say that in fact, we should have said that. That Nazi for the. Federal government but you also having worked Akiko Google you understand how you know a little bit about how this stuff works the the there's not any proof that while way for instance, has ever done anything. Particularly Evil they've done some commercial espionage apparently, but nothing could particularly evil but there's the potential if they run the entire five G. Network that at some point, they could inject malicious software to the network or shut it down. Is What could Even even sounds stupid asking it. What could take time do? It's the forbidden APP. If you think about it if you don't have it on your phone, it could disappear at any time. No I think it's it's less about that although you do see companies like Amazon saying, Hey, on your work phone or work device please don't install. And they did it. Because they realize Oh we do business with these guys. Let's not this them off but wells Fargo did that I think the Department of Defense I don't know about you sds, but it's reasonable if you've got a company phone. Probably shouldn't have facebook or instagram on it either you right? Yeah. I keep my twitter and all that stuff very far away from work phone. It's my it's my personal account, but you know it's I can understand why people want to have just a a sense of okay. Let's be careful. Let's see what's going on and then You know just making sure that you can depend on the. Tools all the way down reflections on trusting trust. You can put things into a compiler, which then you can remove it from the source code and turns out that thing can stay in the compiler for years and years and years. So you know you don't WanNa be load bearing on any particular technology that you can't quite vouch for his guesses what people are thinking, what would be the legal? How could a president ban an APP in the United States I was thinking about this in the one thing the United States government is very effective at is We we we went after Isis in I sell at a very effective way instead of this Ip address to a recruitment site you can't access it. So my my guess would be the executive order would basically grafter the ISP's and say you can't go to this particular ISP but think about that I know of VPN products is sponsor show sponsored mind and to know how few seconds would take the average teenager together VPN account to just keep their tiktok going. Yesterday I downloaded the tiktok cap the first video that came up credit account 'cause I forgot my previous password was a if Tiktok it's banned. Here's how to get around it. You don't Vpn you can go into the settings, your phone, change your country of origin to Canada and then You're great. Exactly I mean it's not enforceable basically So I mean one thing Leo I think. Matt and I would probably agree that we do need to. I don't know if it's more oversight from the point of sale like on the APP store or Google play I I don't know if it's kind of an External Code audit policy for these kinds of APPs on their own by countries I. Think we agree we we need more oversight and we need to make sure all of these are not stealing data from people and just to get people very brief history lesson you know Edward Snowden had some very serious allegations about our own spying agencies using. Facebook to gather intelligence on people all around the world there's evidence for that. There's no hard evidence at this point the Tiktok is doing any of this. So if we're serious about doing this, the answer isn't to further balkanize the United States from the rest of the world the answers to form coalitions with other countries say look if you're going to operate here in, you know if you're gonNA have the software operating in our country here, the rule you have to follow you can't just arbitrarily download people's Phone books, there's going to be You know civil fights. That's clearly the way to go is got to be bigger than just tiktok. I'm just looking at Tick Tock on my iphone. It has access to my photos because I gave it access to my photo so I could put a profile picture on there. it gives me notifications I could turn that off. That's that's a push though that's not a poll. Background APP refresh means it can run in the background and cellular data doesn't ask for. location data doesn't ask for I mean facebook asks for ten times more. That's why I don't have it on my phone. I. mean the worst thing Tiktok does is waste millions of hours a productivity, and maybe that's a recent ban I don't know. But I, just I don't understand how it could be used. If it's not getting location permissions, how could it be used maliciously and I think it is getting location position. I know that I've know anecdotally at least from a couple of friends whenever they let's say go to Connecticut to visit family or something they will suddenly get Connecticut. Themed Tiktok content or something similar. Okay. that could just be from. Connection you can get that from the IP address so they could get a Geo location through IP address without asking APP without telling apple that they're doing that that would make sense. Okay. So they're getting them. Every cannon probably, I hate to say it probably does do that.
Europe's Top Court Strikes Down Key Rules Of U.S.-EU Data Transfer
"In a major case, surrounding data privacy Europe's top court has invalidated the privacy shield. An EU US framework used to transfer personal data across the Atlantic. The ruling came in a clash between facebook. An Australian privacy activists Max Trams who has challenged the tech giants handling of EU citizens data ever since Edward Snowden spine revelations in two thousand thirteen, while the ruling does not mean an immediate halt to all data transfers outside the U. The court upheld the validity of standard contractual clauses. Two processors established in third countries scrutiny over data transfers will be ramped up a new system also have to be implemented, which guarantees that European data is afforded the same standard of privacy protection in the US.
EU court invalidates data-sharing pact with US
"The European union's top court has ruled that an agreement that allows a big tech companies to transfer data to the U. S. is invalid and that national regulators it needs take tougher action to protect users data the ruling doesn't mean an immediate halt to old data transfers outside the EU there is another legal mechanism that some companies can use but it means that the scrutiny over data transfers will be ramped up and that the EU and the US may have to find a new system that guarantees that Europeans data is afforded the same protection in the US as it is in the E. U. the case began after former US National Security Agency contractor Edward Snowden revealed in two thousand and thirteen that the American government was snooping on people's online data and communications center shockingly London
"edward snowden" Discussed on Recode Decode
"There is therefore going to be. There's GonNa, be some intelligence that they could have gathered in the past. That is hard for them together now. There's just no. There's no getting around that it's it's impossible for me to know what the harm is because the harm, would itself be classified and I don't have access to that now it's impossible for the government to know itself. What it what? It doesn't get that it might have got otherwise so there has to be some harm there. I still would maintain. That? There is no intelligence official who would trade. The Access to information they have right now in the post era with what they had access to ten years ago twenty years ago thirty years ago or any other time in American history, the landscape of digital data is so vast the ability to. Home in on. Any conversations or any database remotely from around the world is so great. That they've never had anything like it. It's like a party. It's a party for them. It's an intelligence party and a lot of ways. So what is the current American surveillance state obviously very lot about China and they used facial recognition and a I and what they're doing What is it here? How do you look at the American surveillance state in the United States? We're probably I mean I've written this. We've the most surveilled people on the planet, not just Americans, but across the globe because of cellphones, and and a lot of it is. We decided to let that happen, but talk about what you consider to be. The dangers of what's coming up given this vast trove of data that people now have the intelligence officials especially have to follow US track US look. The American surveillance establishment is bound by law and under legal structure. The problems have been. that. We didn't know what the law was. There there is such a thing a secret lawyers this country. And that's a scary and dangerous thing I. Would I would write stories for the Washington Post. About one or another's disclosure about the NSA, you would have people like Bob Lit. Come out and he was the. General Counsel for the Director of National Intelligence I'd say every single thing story. You describe everything you described here as lawful it's it's done under color of law. And There's a great saying by name Michael Kinsley. That sometimes the scandal is what's legal. Especially, if you didn't know, it was legal, especially, if you've been led by public statements that it was wasn't legal. I mean look. Here's an example the problem the problem was. Dissimulation by the government. There was a famous provisions of the USA Patriot Act section to fifteen people called it the library proviso because people imagine that the government would be getting copies of people's library, borrowing records and spy on them that way, but what it really said was. The government. With a warrant could get access to any business record any tangible thing. And the FBI, which made use of this power would report every year. Look, we only use twenty one times We're doing it discreetly proportionately narrowly. and you don't have to worry about abusing this power now. They're all secret because they're all classified that we're telling you the number only twenty one times this year, and then you find out by inference from the documentation provided by Edward Snowden that with twelve twenty one warrants. They were obtaining a trillion telephone records right, no, not a million or a billion trillion. That's with twelve out of the twenty one and then you start to feel like you've been lied to. I mean if you are teenage. Daughter told you she had a party while you were out of town, but she only invited twelve people no problem you would be distressed and pissed off to find out that she actually had a trillion people attend. You would feel you were lied to and we were lied to. So you, most worried about going forward a lot of talk about your own worries about being surveilled about you being hacked. Is Anybody safe for what? What are the big worries? You have not just as a reporter. Because you have a you're you're? You're operating in an area where you would become a target? I would assume What do you think most people should be worried about? What are the top issues for the average citizen who is active on facebook active on twitter at or any of these social networks uses Amazon especially now during coronavirus with were giving. We're using these digital services so heavily and yielding up so much information about ourselves. Well, you said earlier, and a lot of people say this and I know you understand the nuances, but you said. That we give so much information freely to these big companies. Just by carrying our phones around our shopping or her making a posting on facebook. and. What hardly anyone understands? Is How much information is taken from us without our knowing what facebook knows about you? Only a small percentage of it is what you tell facebook deliberately. facebook collects thousands of different signals about you that come from your machine that come from your behavior around the Internet that is that is surveilled by facebook. Java applets that are placed on websites around the world that come from your friends. I for example would never give facebook my cell phone number. But I'm sure facebook. Has You know a hundred copies of it because they've persuaded? People who don't understand what they're doing to upload their address books to facebook. So. Any number of my friends who know my cell phone number? The button without paying much attention that said short. Take all my contacts. FACEBOOK is now. They know my cellphone number. My can't protect myself against that. To what is one to do? How do you look at the State of American? Surveillance just continuous. Say 'cause. I what I say as I say I agree with you on the second point is that people don't realize quite how much they're taking along with the stuff. You know that they're taking, but we become these sort of dates to Internet companies in that we get a map or a APP or a dating thing, and they get everything else including making money off of it. What should people be worried about from a government level and a consumer level? You know there are a lot of people who say. First of all I've got nothing to hide. Those people never really mean it. And if you if you. Can show them any sort of granular way, how much is known about.
"edward snowden" Discussed on Recode Decode
"Up? We're back with Bart. Gilman he is a well-known journalist award winning and he's also the author of a new book called. Dark Mirror Edward Snowden and the American surveillance state. We were talking about schools of fish and what they're allowed. Let's be clear. They're not supposed to be taking surveilling Americans and but the Internet has provided the opportunity to do so given that the Americans are giving up all kinds of information to social networks or Google or anybody else that they have relationships with talk a little bit about the impact on tech of what happened here because I've always felt like the Edward, snowden moment was the moment that. The relationship, which has been close closer than people realize was quite hurt and people in Silicon Valley, depending on which company it was, twitter was more loud about it but others. They all reacted with sort of shock. I sorta surprised they didn't realize. Why wouldn't the government come fishing in there? in their pond. So the tech companies, all knew that the rules had changed, and that the NFL could come to them. And give them ten thousand accounts and say give me all the content of these accounts under authority of federal judge, and they were comfortable enough with that they it was the force of law, and they were doing it and I have no reason to think that they were especially disturbed by it. But when they found out that the say was breaking in. to another door of their house overseas, and not telling them about it, and just helping itself that really pissed them off, and it took them back and I think that was A. Big Big moment. For Tech in fact, there were a number of top tech executives that were gathered. I'm told. At a conference in China. At the time that this story broke and he was the talk of the conference, and it was a defining moment, it was the moment that. First of all, they decided to take defensive countermeasures, and this was an extraordinary thing you had. For the first time. American companies treating the American government as an adversary and. Spending millions and millions of dollars to defend against US government surveillance. Okay, that was a big moment, and it had not happened before Edward. SNOWDEN Now it was also facing China was facing on. It was facing other countries, which were already doing to them. In in many states, Google Tussle in China earlier. Talk a little bit about that because they were used to doing to having this, but not the US government correct. Bright, they were used to defending themselves in China and in infrastructure that touched China. They were not used to the idea of global adversary that could intercept data on the private fiber that going between their data centers is not the open Internet. This fiber optic cable that these companies buy or lease themselves. No other traffic travels on them. They were not used to those as be. Targets, and it changed the way they operated. So, what do you think the impact was? I think it did I think it led to the two of them, not paying attention to different things, not cooperating with the government on things like. Interference and things like that. I don't know if you think that was the case, but the relationship was not irretrievably broken, but it was pretty broken at that time as I recall. It was badly hurt and. Some that may have been principal. Some of it may have just been outraged at. Your own locks have been picked and and a big chunk of it. Let's be honest had to do with market imperatives. There was a lot of global outrage about NSA's surveillance when these stories started breaking and the question was. Can we trust Microsoft anymore to host our company cloud infrastructure? Can we trust? Amazon, can we trust CAN WE TRUST YAHOO? Google and so forth they were at very real risk of losing the biggest market. They had for growth that their presence in the US market. For e mail for cloud storage, floor data infrastructure. They were pretty well saturated in this market. All their growth was going to be overseas. And you had Europeans for example starting to say well, we're. We're not going to allow us of American infrastructure if that's just going to be. On the menu for the NSA, and so, the companies had to make very strong indications, not just with words, but with deeds of their independence. And what do you think the impact of that was them doing that moving into encryption moving into stronger corruption and different things they were doing. Because again there is there does need to be some cooperative relationship between tech companies and the government, or maybe you don't think that at all. I think that. Some surveillance has substantial amount of us. Intelligence collection is justified necessary, and so you need to have the means of doing that. Especially bothered me what I tried to explore in the book. Is the idea of bulk surveillance of collecting everything in order that you can find anything. rather than targeting surveillance at specific intelligence targets to begin with. Levy be clear about the reason. There is an important legal at operational concept in intelligence gathering that's called incidental collection. If, you pull in a big bucket of information and. It happens that there are Americans in there. That's not an accident because you know they're Americans. Swimming in that see it's not unexpected. It's not even undesired, but it has to be called incidental, which means you weren't aiming for them. But once you collect them and you weren't aiming for them. You collected them. Incidentally, you get to keep that data. and. In some cases, for example, the FBI can sort through it and. Look for Cara, look for bar inside that and other things that might other crimes other things that you. That might be suspect. Correct. Today's them. And they can do that for criminal investigative purposes So you have a situation in which information has been collected? Without The dorm will fourth amendment protections and without the benefit of a warrant. And yet if they find evidence of crime. They can use it This is the kind of information that would be suppressed if they did this. With the usual sort of domestic law, enforcement means right so one of the terms that was using the book. You're quoting someone which was database of room. It's creating a data. Could you talk about that? Because and then I would love your ship that the government was doing this, but the tech companies themselves all have this information, even if it's been sort of served up by consumers, who? Who Know they're doing it. Who Know they're giving all this information to talk a little bit? This idea of a database of ruin because I think people don't realize how much you can put together information and create you know to create it really problematic situation for a lot of people, secrets and different things that they want to keep a confidential well. It was Paul. My believe in an article I, if I remember correctly in in a Harvard Journal, who coined the term database of ruin? TO DESCRIBE SITUATION WHICH Any sufficiently large collection of information. Is bound to have data in it. Which if revealed? Could destroy lives. It could put people in danger. It could expose victims of crimes victimisers. It could expose personal secrets that were destroy marriages. It could expose trade secrets that were destroyed jobs. That if you put together enough. They're going to be connections in there that are terribly damaging. And although it's true. That private companies private Internet. Companies have enormous amounts of data about us. It's different. First of all when the government has it because the government has a compulsory power over our lives. And it's also true that the government has a breadth of access to information that even the facebooks of the world don't have if you can..
The surprising danger that deepfakes pose to the presidential elections
"Deep fakes. Those digital manipulated videos. That look scary. Real pose a threat to the upcoming presidential election. Real danger will surprise you. I'm Roger Chang and this is your daily charge me reporter John Salesman. Thanks for joining me Joan. Yeah it's great to be back on the daily charge so we've all heard of deep fix but you don't think there's actually a real risk in say candid footage of Joe Biden. Donald trump actually saying something crazy and swing voters. What's real danger deep fix with this election? The Deepak experts that I talk to yes. They said that they're not most worried about a candidate depict like that like something where Donald Trump or Joe Biden is admitting to a hot button. Crime or saying something really inflammatory with. They're more concerned about are two things. One is known as the Liars Dividend. And that's this concept that as more people know that the fakes exists that there can be these completely false highly realistic out there. It gives people who are caught in the act and are guilty more credibility when they deny something when they denial legit video by saying. Oh you heard deep fix. You can't trust what you see anymore. And that just muddies the waters and makes it harder for people to understand and trust what is truth. And what is fiction? Yeah that's that sounds very dangerous because that's like it damages the credibility of basically everything right. Because if you could point to this one thing is oh see this fake. It applies to everything essentially right. Yeah it makes it harder. You know we. Our brains have been wired for so long to believe what we see. And we've learned to you. Know as Photoshop came along and as other sorts of media manipulation have come a long. We've been able to catch up and at least be more skeptical of those but because video is tricking your eyes and your ears because the AI that powers depicts is so sophisticated and so good and making things look real. That's really really deep wiring in your brain telling you all these signals like trust this. Trust this trust this and so when people start saying. Hey you can't trust that anymore. It just means that it's harder for anyone to understand what's even real and speaking of the AI aspect of things you have a nice breakdown of how deep fix work like how how are these videos created defects are created by a kind of artificial intelligence called Ganz that's short for generative adversarial networks and the the the basic way that they work is they have to neural networks. Networks are a kind of learning. That's based on how the kind of inspired by how the brain works so imagine that these two neural networks are actually an artist and an art critic and they're locked in rooms right next to each other. The artist creates a painting trying to make something that looks like a masterpiece. And he shuffles that painting into a stack of other paintings that actually are works by the go or we're in war or whatever they take that stack moving into art critics room and art critic picks out which ones he thinks are a forgeries. The ones that aren't the real masterpieces. That feedback goes back to the artists and the artists gets better and better and better at figuring out how to make a really convincing fake masterpiece up to the point where he's able to he or she is able to. This artificial neural network is able to make something that can trick the critic into thinking that what is fake is actually real. That's how these sort of artificial intelligence systems work. So I mean that sounds complicated by no love this kind of working superfast background but how easy is it for someone to actually make a deep? Do It depends what kind of deep lake we're talking about. You know there are open source tools to make the kind of celebrity face swaps the Elon. Musk sauna babies had sort of thing. They're open source tool sick at that. They're not as easy. Those aren't as easy to make us like a meam or an animated Gif. You need to have technological savvy Know How to get. You need to have a pretty powerful computer you need. Large data sets unique things. That are more difficult than like making taking a photo putting some white text on it of course so those are berry accessible with are kind of acceptable. But what we're talking about here talking about election defects now. These are the kind of things all the experts that I talked to say. You know we have a lower hurdle to suspend disbelief when we're looking at Elon. Musk space on a baby. But when you're presented with a video of a candidate for president or the president of the United States we have a luckily human beings. Have they kind of set a higher bar that you have to clear to actually believe that it's true so what that means is kind of very sophisticated high end e fix that would threaten on election? Those are really reserved for people that work at universities or research centres powerful computers or state actors that have that kind of computing power like China at their disposal. So the idea here. That Kennedy fakes are less of a risk. Like what are some of the defects? We should be worried about what people are more worried about aren't necessarily these candidates it's more an a deep lake that attacks your faith in the election rather than your trust in a candidate so instead of having what are the reasons is at the state in our political discourse where we're very divided. I think everyone agrees that we're divided and our our opinions seem more entrenched than they had before and so in that environment it's harder to convince or sway voters either way with a fake video. You know like if you were to make a video of Donald Trump's hair flying off or something like it will only solidify your beliefs if you liked on trump you'll be like that's a fake. I like Donald Trump. Even more. If you don't like him you'll be like he looks Tom. I dislike them even more. And so a more cunning way to use a deep fake to disrupt the US election would be to create a deep fake of say like an authoritative news anchor or a governor or authority. Figure who not as many people know saying things like. We're in the age of Kobe. Nineteen we have marsh. It's two days before election martial law. You cannot go to your polling place or to create like news. Anchors saying there There are you know there are some sort of you. Know armed militants some sort of supremacists or militants. That are arming themselves. Going to polling places in a specific neighborhood these kind of people need to be scared about showing up to vote and in that way you can suppress votes and you can also after the vote undermine people's faith in the result if you have an authoritative figure saying something about how we have footage of vote-switching from trump to Biden That could so this sort of distrust not only in going to the election but after the election in the results themselves. That's an interesting point because it's it's not necessarily like a defect that would make Joe Biden. Say something like I killed the spurs like this is these are actually kind of believable is right. I think that's your point like this is a lot more coming. It's lot a lot more nuance but I think. That's what makes the lila easier to swallow the fact that it is all what you're saying. It's pretty plausible sounded. Yeah and the other thing to keep in mind. Is that a candidate. Deep fake would. It's kind of like this Yin and Yang. Were like the the head of the snake is eating the tail like a candidate. D. Fake would only be successful if it basically goes viral and lots of people see it right but when it goes viral. One thing that the. Us has say what you will about the US press core. We have a robust free Press we have a robust free press entrenched in our country other countries where there are dictatorships or more emerging democracies. They don't have that quite at their disposal as much as we do. So if a candidate of the president or Joe Biden were to come out. We do have the capacity here built into our democracy to have a force of people trying quickly as possible. To debunk it. Whereas if you were somebody that wanted to make a deep fake that could actually just robbed or suppress boats. It would be more successful if it doesn't go viral if it's not something that draws the attention of an entire press corps. That's entirely focused on this on this election. And so and that way could also kind of be the most successful not going viral kind of existing on the radar enough to disrupt people in say one or two counties that are really important in a swing states. And that wouldn't draw the attention of a national press corps debunk it well defects captial of tension and headlines is really just sort of one way to manipulate the Info right like this. We're looking at it a little bit too narrow. If we're just focusing on defects is that is that the case. Yeah you know. It's it makes sense that people would be scared of depicts because you know as we talked about earlier it. It undermines the species assumption. That if I see it I can believe it. And so that's why. There's a lot of fear around deep fakes and what they could pinch the harm that could potentially cause but the reality is you know because of some of these things we talked before about. How really sophisticated deep picks are still inaccessible to a wide right of people? That's not true for like you said memes for slowing down video like the Pelosi sounding drunk video that went viral. Those are kinds of media manipulations. Sometimes people refer to them as shallow fakes or cheap. Fix that have the power of being cheap easy and still incredibly effective. And so. That's why you know. One of the Edward Snowden slayer. Aclu lawyer this comparison. He said that you know looking at election information manipulation by only looking at depict looking at it through a straw. You're just not seeing. You're seeing something really scary. But you're not seeing the much. Bigger picture of how things could be disrupted in twenty twenty oxygen. Russia played a big role in. You know clouding the two thousand sixteen elections with misinformation disinformation. And you know you talked about how it takes a lot of resources for these fakes to be effective. Obviously Russia's a country with a lot of resources like should we should we be worried about Russia antiques. Well so I talked to one expert on the national security locations of depicts his. Name's Clint Watts. He testified to Congress. He testified to senators about just the sort of thing and he says you know anything's possible but Russia and their disinformation tactics. They are more skilled at the art of this information than they are at the science of deep fakery so they although anything's possible. Russia has lots of oil money could always who knows what Russia could do. But he's more interested in the potential in China or other places China in particular as a place. Where China has you know. They have supercomputers I think Stephen Shanklin expert on nonstop. He always has that but I think they have. More supercomputers than we have in the US or whatever compute they've got lots of supercomputers which is important for making the takes no for sure beyond supercomputers they've invested heavily artificial intelligence. The one leads in the world in a appear that neural network. That's that stuff is a recipe for a lot of potential problems. Down the line. Yeah in China they have completely synthetic television personalities like deep fake news anchors so that a very authoritative anchor can report on something without actually take time out of his day to report on it The fact that a country like that if if they wanted to do that then they could They are the ones that are in the best position to create a deep fake That would disrupt global geopolitics. But you know. State actors could create other kinds of deep fakes. That could cause other kinds of problems. Those are in the world so you know it's just doomsday scenario. No matter how you look at it well that's that's glorious and very positive Just lastly I mean I think we can all figure out that Elon. Musk is not really a baby. But are there giving advice for for like how despotic fake. Or or just a you know how to be a little bit more vigilant when looking at some of the content that surfaces around the web. Yeah so I asked everyone. I talk to you all the extra Saturday. I asked this question. And there's no silver bullet like little loophole that you can find for understanding it's fake For debunking it on your own. If it's a real deep fake than your eyes won't save you like watching it. You won't be able to tell that it's like that's the whole point of a defense that it's an AI. Created where the power of this artificial intelligence outstrips like. Our brains are very attuned human faces. But they're not so fast that they can keep up with how well deep fake technology can progress. And so you know. We don't have computers in our brains that are as powerful as supercomputers at research universities So the advice for normal people that are like hey how do I even know of this fake? It really comes down to like basic hygiene about what you're exposed to if you see a video and it seems like it's so outlandish that it couldn't be true than might not be and if you see a video that is clearly something trying to appeal to some person some segments inflammatory instincts. That's also reason to be skeptical defects just mean. Everyone needs to do what we should be doing with other kinds of manipulated media slowdown. And think before you share. It's hard to do and it's even harder when we're talking about deep ix but it's just as important to act that way what you're presented with a really realistic video as you would be if you presented with a mean or like a cheap slowed down video of a drunk. Nancy Pelosi Right. Yeah well. That's good advice in general whether it's an article or D do a little bit of Homework. Thinks through what you're actually looking at
Kishore Mahbubani says COVID-19 won't stop China's rise
"These days for China there's been an economic slowdown a trade and technology war with America. One of the few issues of bipartisanship in today's Washington then there have been protests in Hong Kong global criticism of Beijing's treatment of the Muslim minorities not to mention Western anxiety about the role of Y in those five G. networks and don't forget the allegations of Chinese interference in sovereign states across the region. Add to this. The outbreak of corona virus or covered nineteen and silently some pundits and they mainly in the West. They're asking whether we're witnessing communist China's Chernobyl moment what do you think well one distinguished intellectual who profoundly disagrees with all this skepticism. He's my guest today. Kishore Mahbubani is distinguished fellow. The Asia Research Institute at the National University of Singapore a former ambassador to the UN twice and a former foreign secretary of Singapore case. Your has risen several influential books on Asia and the rise of China the lightest one is called has China won the Chinese challenge to American Promessi as published by public phase in New York Keisha. Welcome back between the lines. My pleasure there'd be back now you've heard all these. These dial warnings about China and as I say they mainly come from listeners. What do you disagree well? I think it's absolutely certain that the return of China to his place as the number one economy in the world cannot be stopped because from the year one to the eighteen twenty or eighteen hundred of the last two thousand years the two largest economies of the world were always those of China and India so the past two hundred years of Western domination award. History have been an aberration. All aberrations come to a natural end and China's return cannot be stopped. And that's absolutely set. You say in your book that if Xi Jingping does not put in place San Succession mechanisms. America could win this geopolitical contest and bear in mind just a couple years ago. She overturned legislation on. Term Limits for presidents essentially might himself later for life. Some of these critics say that. How does that promote good governance for China and a sound succession mechanism? That will allow China to Rosza Unabated well I would say that the history of China has taught them when they have strong central government. The people benefit a lot. When this week government they suffer a lot and you look at a hundred years of humiliation. That China's suffered from the first opium war of Eighteen. Forty two right until the establishment of the People's Republic of China in nineteen forty nine. The main reason why they went through one hundred years of humiliation was because they had weak central government so what Xi Jinping has given to China is once again very strong central government this is an asset for China. I think he's going to be around as Vita for a long time. And as long as he's around. I think China will do very well. Okay will you say that this geopolitical contest that's broken out between America and China? That will continue marathon. Rice does that mean that Beijing and Washington a doomed to confrontation. Well the the reason why. I'm producing my book now. Has China one his precisely because I want to avoid a confrontation in my. I think it's absolutely unnecessary for the United States and China to get entangled in this confrontation because at the end of the day the primary goal of the United States government is to improve the wellbeing of the American people than the best way to improve the well being of the American people especially in this call. The crisis is to work with China and not work against China but of course unfortunately the United States has other goal and is the primary goal of the United States is to maintain primacy in the global order. Then that will lead to confront To leading American proponents of containing China. John Shaw. The University of Chicago Have Stephen. Walt whom you quoted approvingly in your book about the perils of American Hubris and exceptionalism but on China I disagree. They say I've been guests on this program and I've made this point Measham and casual. They say that a rising China does indeed threaten the regional status quo and Washington moreover will and should go to great lengths to ensure that China does not dominate the Asia. Pacific your response. Well I think the question is whether or not they can both live with each other In the region if if the United States by the way you know all the countries in this region many of them one the United States will remain strong player in this region. I think it'd be good for the region to have United States. Remain as strong Leah. By United States can remain a strong player without on fronting China. He can remain a strong player by working with China In in in many critical areas. And frankly if you ask the countries in the region What they would like to see they would like to see a strong China and they would like to see a strong United States. But they don't want to be forced to choose within China and the United States and we'll get to this question about choosing later on in the show but I want to stick with America. There is a consensus in the region. That America should stay but Foreign Affairs magazine. This is the Distinguished New York Journal to Achieve. Contributed this month. It faces a range of top. Foreign Policy Thinkers. They're all weighing on whether or not the. Us is in the process of global retrenchment The cover of Australia's leading Foreign Affairs Journal. This month is is called can trust America So Am I right in saying you? Don't think American showing any signs of withdrawing from Asia. Now I see no signs at all America retreating from the region and And I think that very strong as you know policy in America is to some extent made by the president but is also made by the deep state and the deep state has a very strong consensus that they got to remain very strongly Industry region. So I don't see an American of withdraw anytime in the near future but I do I do argue that the United States has got to behave differently. With China net once had One tenth the size of China's of America's GNP retailers but today China's be GNP BB. Dems is bigger than the United States. So you behave differently. Was this animal. What about that? Animals DASA more assertive. Now in your book and you listening to Katia Mahbubani. We're chatting about his new book. Has China one in your new book as show you dedicate a chapter to the question is China expansionist and you say basically China wants to respect global rules and norms but let's face it. It has ignored the ruling from the UN's Permanent Court of Arbitration. That was at The Hague in two thousand sixteen. The high concluded for those of you listening who've forgotten about this this is four years ago. Chana's conduct around the Scarborough Shoal and the Spratly islands it was illegal and let's remember Beijing has continued to build up a military prisons on artificial Alan's at drive out local fishermen and in the last few months case. Short Sean has been bullying Indonesia over the Natuna islands. How is all this respecting global order? Well you know one point. I emphasize said there were people talk of benevolent. Great Powers Turn Benevolent Grid. Power is an oxymoron. So as you know the United States today has not ratified the law. The Sea Convention. So in in some areas as China emerged behaving exactly the United States. The United States would never accept going to a tribunal to judge whether or not the United States valid or invalid claiming any area in that respect. China is behaving like the United States by just as the United States. Most of the time respects most international rules and conventions China. Also most of the time respects most of international rules in confections in many ways. China's behavior and America's behaviour is very similar in the international arena. Your critics would say that. China's maritime climbs a contested by the Philippines Malaysia Brunei Indonesia Vietnam Beijing has antagonized nations log New Zealand Australia with cyber attacks and and political interference. Nightside casual these. Not Diplomatic Wins for president. She hasn't he made some big mistakes. Well I it's it's it's interesting. It's always the rest. That is screaming very loud on this South China Sea When was the last time you heard a very strong statement from militia All of all of Philippines On the South China Sea. Why you're seeing behind. What is happening behind the scenes is a lot of diplomacy that is not reported in the Western media. Now I cannot comment on the side of the tax on Shelia and New Zealand but I I believe it was Edward Snowden revealed to us that if you live in today's world you can assume that anything you put up. There is being monitored completely by the National Security Agency of the United States. So I think what the world needs is new conventions in the cyber area and the world should work together do agree on some set of rules for what you can or cannot do in terms of cyber hacking spoke with the New Zealand professor. Anne Marie Bridie last week on this program and she told us about three investigations into Chinese interference in politics that a currently underway in New Zealand. But we WANNA go there now and finished your point. I was quite struck by a law in in your book. He sure well. You talked about the Chinese reluctance to conquer Australia quote. Future historians will marvel at the fact that even though Australia is geographically close to China. It was physically. It was physically occupied in conquered by far more distant British forces absolutely true. I mean if China was an expansionist power wrenching. Her travel all the way to Africa. He could have easily gone to Australia. Additional Australia. Remarkable accident of history. That Australia was colonized by British forces than not Chinese. I mean future. Historians will marvel. The anomaly visits Tom Switzer. On our in 'em I guess is Keisha Mahbubani the former foreign secretary of Singapore and President of the UN Security Council. He's now a distinguished fellow at the National University of Singapore. We're talking about his new book. Has China one now for some of Iran's listeners in Venice Matas whether your overstating China's rise and I WANNA put to you this very rule weakness in limitation surely because many analysts They argue that there's a ticking bomb in China it's low birthright and the aging population and this is the argument that will reduce the workforce and could potentially break social security system. How would you respond to those critics? Oh that's absolutely no question. That China faces a lot of serious Internal Challenges. Because you know it is to instill a developing country It's CABBIE DYING IF I get it right. It's still about ten thousand dollars. One-sixth debt of the United States has a long way to go before it becomes fully developed country. And that's precisely why China wants to focus on its internal development and not get dragged into an all-out geopolitical contests with the United States. So you notice that China wherever possible is trying to avoid getting entangled with the United States even though the United States clearly is challenging the United States challenging the United States charging China In many
Edward Snowden And Mass Surveillance At the start of this decade
"A federal judge ruled that proceeds from Edward Jones Memoir permanent record to be paid to the US this government because he violated the terms of his employment contract with the US government in publishing the book. You clearly don't follow me on twitter. You're GONNA love this. I wrote real quickly on twitter. There's so many it's with someone. Summarize twitter perfectly as does not pay. I know I wrote espionage a bitch and I know you don't like it when I used that word and so many people weighed in against against me and it's inspired me and as you to learn more about Edward Stone because a lot of people who unless they're bought as far as I know the Russian show is trying to gain my trust but who seem thoughtful weighed in and said you got this wrong. Edward Snowden is a patriot. It's there's much great podcasts. You could read the book. I'm sending you the the book I am sending you the book I'm going to learn more about Edward Snowden. That's your Christmas present. The free book I got from it again here. We go again and going to give it to me an intermission at cats right anyway. So what I'm GONNA we're going out here. We can't Handy Randy. Who Might Not Randy? Were coming to your show. All right. So Edward Snowden you think he should not be paid for the for the money to go to government because he violated the terms of his employment contract. That's what thank you will be going to be more measured here. I need to learn more about Edward Snowden because a lot of people that I respect said turn got it. Got It wrong on this one. So I'm going to try and learn. Learn more about how a guy decides to state secrets. Shove a thumb drive up his ass and moved to China and Russia's a hero so I'm going to try to understand how that makes my hero but anyways anyways and I'm sure the Russians anything cube there was no shoving with the thumb drive. I'm sorry there was a Rubik's cube that he took in and out so there you have it
Republicans want Hunter Biden and whistleblower to testify
"Usual the whistle blower and former vice president Joe Biden's son hunter Biden are on the list of witnesses house Republicans want to testify in the impeachment inquiry into president Donald Trump that according to The Washington Post the paper reports intelligence committee chair Adam ships not likely to call them meanwhile the debate over whether to publicize the whistle blowers name continues senator rand Paul it is you know I've been a big defender of whistleblowers Edward Snowden is probably the most famous whistle blower all time and time great defender of his so I think we should protect whistleblowers but I do think that there is a competing right that others have that when you're accused of a crime you should get to confront your accuser that's part of the six the ma'am and I think it's important the president get that protection as well meanwhile White House chief of staff Mick Mulvaney wants to be part of a lawsuit that would keep him from testifying until a federal court decides the
"edward snowden" Discussed on At Liberty
"From the ACLU this is at liberty. I'M EMERSON SYKES A staff Aphids Ernie here at the ACLU and your host today. I'm handing hosting responsibilities responsibilities to my boss ACU Executive Director Anthony Romero a few days ago he interviewed. NSA WHISTLE BLOWER ACLU client Edward Snowden in front of a live audience at the Brooklyn Public Library. Anthony spoke to snowden about his memoir permanent record. I'll be back with you as usual for the next episode. I hope you enjoy the interview. The hello everyone it is a pleasure to be with you here tonight. In Brooklyn where I live Hello Ed we'll get to you in a second. I'm really thrilled to be talking to you about this incredible new book permanent record. If you haven't read it you must it is beautifully written. It tells a very personal story. That's relevant not just to the one man who's the author tells a personal story about each and every single one of us. It is so good that it's number two on the New York. You're at times bestseller lists congratulations and the US government is suing the author as an effort to try to shut the book down in perhaps is helping promote it in fact ed sparked a historic worldwide debate about privacy and technology when you expose evidence of the mass surveillance that was was happening unbeknownst to the American people or even to members of Congress so this is not our first conversation at an I had a chance to sit face to face a couple all times Moscow couple times with robot couple times on video chat but I've been really looking forward to this the.
"edward snowden" Discussed on Fresh Air
"To the interview fresh. Air's Dave Davies recorded with Edward Snowden a former. It systems manager who worked under contract for the National Security Agency Eighty in two thousand thirteen he gave three journalists access to thousands of classified documents describing US intelligence agencies surveillance of American citizens businnes snowden spoke today through an Internet connection from his apartment in Moscow. So I WANNA talk about your decision to release these access to many documents to three journalists and just talk about why you took the course you did and why some critics say you had other options. One thing people full say is look. There's a system. There are inspector general's offices of each of these agencies. Why couldn't you go to them. Well this is. This is a great question. for for one we've never seen the inspector general's office actually being effective safeguard for the constitution itself we have had since. I came forward one of the inspector general employees. I believe the deputy inspector general for the NSA comportment. If snowden had come to me. I would've explained to him his misconceptions about how these programs work how these things are in fact legal how these things are in fact constitutional and maybe he wouldn't have had do this this at all the inspector general is a great resource to have if someone is a middle manager and they're engaged in sexual sure harassment or they are embezzling or something of that nature but if you have a criminal conspiracy inside not just the leadership of the NSA say but but in fact in the White House that is run by the vice president's own lawyer in the Bush Administration Dick Cheney had a lawyer named David Addington who said building this mass surveillance system. The very first instance was legal when in fact he knew that was not the case. What do you do this is asking you the hens ah to sort of report the Fox's misbehavior to the Fox himself and I WANNA point out just just real quickly. That is not a contention that these programs were illegal that these programs were likely on constitutional. That's not my assertion. That is the assertion of the very first federal court ruling of Judge Leon Liane in the wake of these disclosures prior to the revelations of mass surveillance in two thousand thirteen. The government ace said these things weren't happening be if they were happening. They were legal and see. Why are you even asking about this. In the first place the description in the book of how you worked through how you were going to release this material material and how you contacted the journalist and provided it is really fascinating. We won't have time to go into it here but I wanNA talk to you about some of the specific arrangements humaid you three journalists were provided with access to thousands of documents that you had what conditions did you impose was on their use. What did you tell the journalists about what they could do and not do when we look at what happened what produced this system of checks and balances failed and so if I come forward myself and said look this is wrong. This is a violation of the constitution. I'm the president of secrets and I'm going to decide what the public needs. No and I just throw it out on the internet which wouldn't be hard for me. I'm a technologist done this afternoon. There's a risk implied in now. What if I was wrong. What if I didn't understand these things what what if it was in fact legal or constitutional these programs were effective rather than as I believed ineffective which later was confirmed by the Obama Administration. These programs weren't aren't saving lives. They heads intelligence value but they didn't have a public safety value. At least that was meaningful so what I did was I try to reconstruct the system of checks and balances by using myself to provide documents to the journalists but never to publish them myself. People don't realize this but I never made public a single document. I trusted that role to the journalists. Decide with public did and did not need to know before the journalists published these stories. They had to go to the government. This was a condition that I require them to do and tell. The government warned them. They're about to run this story about this program and the government could argue against publication say you've got it wrong long or you've got it right but if you publish this is going to hurt somebody. I never case. I'm aware of that. Process was followed and that's why in two thousand nineteen we've never ever seen any evidence at all presented by the government that someone's been harmed as a result of these stories. That's why I believe these. Stories won the Pulitzer surprise for for public service. It's because there is a way that you can maximize the public benefit of love a free press and aggressively contesting the government's monopoly on information at the same time mitigating the risks of even a very large disclosure of documents by simply making sure that you trust the right people the right sector of society with the right system them to keep everyone honest because all of us work better together than we do alone. I will say that on that question of whether this has has harmed American interest or put people in danger there was an AP story last year which quarter spokesman for the national counterintelligence and Security Center as saying snowden disclosed posed documents have put US personnel or facilities at risk around the world and damaged intelligence collection efforts exposed to tools used to amass intelligence et Cetera they wrong. They are wrong look. I can't correct six years of lives in sixty seconds but when you look at all of those claims they're always merely allegations. The government has never put forward any evidence and they have investigated me for six years so has basically every other government on the plane clean and you a journalist know better than anyone else that the government aggressively leaks when it's in its favor so you can look at this. White House right now with these kind of if disclosures of classified information just hard stop caused damage if they created risks for us US personnel programs three quarters of the White House would be in prison right now. They're not because the vast majority of leaks while they are uncomfortable while they are embarrassing arcing or sometimes beneficial to government far more is classified than actually needs to be so yes. The government has has made those allegations and they will continue to make those allegations but look the thing that we always have to ask is what is the evidence to back that assertion and they've never provided that and I'm quite confident they never will because it didn't happen. You fully expected to be identified. You eventually at identified yourself to explain your motives as you were planning this. What kind of future did you envision for yourself. The likeliest outcome from hands down was that I'd spend the rest of my life in an orange jumpsuit but in present yes but that was a that was a risk that I had to take so now now. You're you've been in Moscow for six years. Lindsay milt has joined you. You are now married. you live in a two bedroom apartment. What kind of security precautions do you take. You didn't want to go to a studio for this thing for this interview right. You're pretty careful right yeah well. I run my own studio because you know people blast how I make my living and I give lectures I speak publicly for the American Program Bureau and Places Book May to speak about the future of cybersecurity. What's happening what surveillance conscience whistle blowing but I do you know I've I've never been the nightclub type a little bit of an indoor cat whether other I lived in Maryland or New York or Geneva or Tokyo or Moscow. I'll always spend the majority of my time looking into a screen so yeah while I'm out on the street. I try not to be recognized. I also live on much more open life now than I did back in twenty thirteen because it seems consensus has resolved that anyone who tries to kill me is only going to prove my point as somebody who's knows does a lot about the kind of information that can be gleaned from a cell phone. I'm wondering what precautions you take with your own cell phone use first off. I try not to use one as as much as possible and when I do use use a cellphone that I've myself modified it performed surgery on it. I opened up with special tools and I use a soldering iron to remove the microphone and I disconnect the camera so that the phone can't simply listen to me when sitting there at it physically has no microphone and when I need to make a call I just connect connect an external microphone the headphone Jack Right and this way the phone works for you rather than you working for the phone. I'm you need to be careful about the software software. You put on your phone. You need to be careful about connections. It's making because today most people they've got a thousand APPs on their phones. It's sitting there on your desk right now or in your hand. The screen green can be off but it's connecting hundreds or thousands of times a second if you some of your audience is listening to this on podcasts right now through for example your buds they know their screen can be turned off. It can be sitting writing in their pocket along with them. They don't even have to be looking at the phone but it's still very much active and this is the core core problem of the data issue that we're dealing with today. We're passing laws that are trying to regulate the use of data. We're trying to regulate the protection data but all of these things presume that the data has already been collected what we need to be doing is we need to be regulated to collection of data because our phones owns. Our devices are laptops even just driving down the street with all of these systems that surround us. Today is producing records about our alive. It's the modern pollution it is invisible but it's still harms us. Let me ask you one other question. You've lived in Russia for six years now. Do you see yourself making making a life there or do you hope to come home someday. A my ultimate goal will always be to return to the United States and I've actually had conversations with the government last in the Obama Administration about what that would look like and they said you know you should come and face trial and I said sure sign me up under one condition edition. I have to be able to tell the jury why I did what I did and the jury has to decide. Was this justified or unjustified. This is called a public interest defense and is allowed under pretty much every crime someone can be charged for murder for example has defenses it can be the self defense and so on so forth it could be manslaughter instead of first degree murder but in the case of telling a journalist the the truth about how the government was breaking the law the government says there can be no defense. There can be no justification for why you did it. The only thing the jury gets to consider is. Did you tell journalists something. You were not allowed to tell them if yes it doesn't matter. Why did you go to jail and I have said as soon as you guys say four whistleblowers it is the jury who decides if it was right or along to expose the government's own lawbreaking? I'll be in court the next day. Unfortunately the Attorney General at the time sent back a letter her saying you know that that sounds great but all we can do for you right now as we will promise not to torture you so. I'd say negotiations are still Lalla going although you haven't actually negotiated since the Obama Administration right right right we're we're waiting for their call. The ball is very much in the government's Court Edward Snowden. Thanks so much for speaking with us. Thank you for having me. Edward Snowden spoke to fresh air's Dave Davies from his apartment in Moscow Akao snowden. His new memoir is called permanent record. Their interview is recorded Tuesday morning soon after the news broke that the US Justice Department filed suit suit to recover all proceeds from snowden book alleging that he violated nondisclosure agreements by not letting the Government Review The manuscript before publication Snowden is attorney. Ben Wizner said in a statement that the book contains no government secrets that have not previously been published by respected news organizations wins and that the government's pre publication review system is under court challenge.
"edward snowden" Discussed on Fresh Air
"About US intelligence agencies surveillance of American citizens the revelations made snowden a wanted man accused of violating the espionage act they also led to changes in the laws and standards governing US intelligence agencies and the practices of US US technology companies which now encrypt much of their web traffic for security snowden has lived for the past six years in Russia out of the reach of American law aw he's written a new memoir about his life and his experiences in the intelligence community. It's called permanent record snowden spoke to fresh air's Davies from from his apartment in Moscow via an Internet connection will Edward Snowden. Welcome to fresh air. I want to begin with the suspicion that some have have that you are. A tool of the Russian government. Were collaborating with Russia since this happened in twenty thirteen. We've seen you know the Russian interference interference in the US election. It's collaboration according to the Muller report with wikileaks and getting stolen emails to affect the election and I think there's just just a general belief that in this authoritarian state Edward snowden wouldn't be able to live for six years unless he were useful to the Russian government. What's it's the general answer to that. I think this is for a lot of people who have sort of Hollywood understanding of how international fairs and intelligence works but the reality is even in the case of as you said electoral interference in the case of wikileaks the Muller report the United States government itself never alleges that for example wikileaks even knew that they were talking to Russian intelligence wikileaks entire system is designed so they don't know who is submitting documents and even granting that they came. I'm from Russian intelligence that that wasn't fact the case every newspaper in the world thought these were newsworthy stories the times the Washington Post everybody was reporting putting on this and when you look beyond sort of the standard examples that we look at the case of electoral interference and we looked toward my case ace there is that question if he's not cooperating with the Russian government. Why would he be allowed to stay and I think the answer here is actually quite obvious. Yes Russia doesn't need to do anything or rather the Russian government doesn't need to do anything to look good in this circumstance it shows they have an independent foreign policy to their public because I applied to all these other countries in Europe or asylum and all of their governments unfortunately could be threatened to revoke their expressions of support and this happened. This is a long and well reported campaign where every time a country started to lean towards letting me Dan it would be either the secretary of state or the vice president of the United States call their foreign ministry and say look if you let this guy in we're going to retaliate and Russians nations are very much consider themselves to a European country so if the rest of Europe is afraid to do something and Russia is not afraid to do something that makes Russians I feel good and remember we did this reverse some Russia and the Soviet Union for the last fifty years so of course if we have an example sample or an instance where the whole world sees basically the United States government is not living up to its values. The Russian government is going to be very eager. You're just underline that that's all they need. Do receive any financial support from the Russian government. No no this is one of the things that that again is a common misconception people sort of think about my life. They think I'm living in a bunker. There's rushing guards the Russian government then I have any contact whatsoever. They're paying me now. I have my own apartment. I have my own income. I live a fully independent life. I have never will will never accept money your housing or any other assistance from the Russian government you didn't exactly have typical adolescence. You ended up spending nights on the computer school. Not of great interest to you you tell the story of looking at the website of the Los Alamos National Laboratory to the did all this nuclear research and discovering that anybody with little understanding of Computers Directory Systems could get internal memos memos. You looked at confidential memos that were just available. You call the general number the lab and left a message and said this is a problem. You eventually got a callback. Tell us about that so my mother gets a little bit of a rude awakening because she's making dinner and I'm I'm sitting in the living room on this computer and she picks up the phone and says Yes yes here and she turns and looks at me and as I see her hearing the other side of the call I can't hear on her face just gets Pale and she looks at me and her eyes grow wide in. She covers the receiver and she says why can't you tell and win. I get out of my chair and pick up the phone and this this man says I'm from Los Alamos Nuclear Laboratory. These these are the sweetest words anyone could have told me in because I'm like. Oh thank God because I had left that message because I had called them because I hadn't really done on anything wrong. I had simply been curious as a boy scout had called this facility and said Hey. There's something broken on your website. You should do something about that. My Mother did not not punish me for this. In fact she was very proud of the fact that I told them they had weakness and their website and Los Alamos for all things once they realized I was a child mile. I think they've been expecting someone older. They said when I turned eighteen I should McCall. You had a lot of jobs in the intelligence community you were actually a CIA a officer in Geneva for a while you ended up in Tokyo after that and then Hawaii and you write that the material Israel that you distributed to journalists ultimately documented and array of abuses so diverse that nobody was ever in a position to know all of them to really to found out even a fraction you had to go looking and what set you looking was an assignment to do a presentation about China. You want to explain doing this so yeah. I'm invited to give a presentation about how China is hacking the United States. intelligence services defense contractors contractors anything that we have available in the network which I know a little bit about but not not that much about because they have the person who's supposed to be giving the presentation drop opt out so I go looking. I use my network access to pull all the slide decks all of the presentation all the training. That's previously been given. I pull all of the recent reporting on what's happening work late into the night. Seeing what exactly is it. The China is doing what are their capabilities are they hacking acking are they doing domestic surveillance doing international surveillance what is occurring and. I'm just shocked by the extent of their capabilities. I'm appalled by the aggression with which they use them but also in a strange way a surprised by the openness with which they use them. They're not hiding it. They're just opened out there saying thing yeah. We're doing this yeah. You know we're hacking. What are you going to do about it and I think this is a distinction ham. I think yes the NSA spying of course they're spying but we're only spying overseas. We're not spying on our guys at home. We wouldn't do that. We have firewalls. We have trip wires for people to hit but surely these are only only affecting terrorists because we're not like China but this plants the first seeds doubt where I see if the capabilities there perhaps somewhere hidden deep even even inside the United States government the appetite for how they can use these capabilities remains the same right so you explore or further and what do you discover about what the NSA is actually doing so over the final years of my career I see that we have the same capabilities as the Chinese government and we are applying them domestically just as they are we have an internal strategy at the NSA which was never publicly vowed but it was all over their top secret internal slides that said the aspiration was to collect all what this means means was. They were not just collecting an intercepting communications from criminals spies. Terrorists people have intelligence value. They were collecting on everyone everywhere all the time. I am just in case because you never know what's going to be interesting and if you miss it when it's passing by you might not get another chance and so what happened was every time we wrote an email. Every time you type something into that Google search box every time your phone moved you send a text message. You made a phone call. Increasingly the United States government without giving the public of so we weren't allowed to know this as a public but in secret the boundaries of the fourth amendment were being changed. This was without even the vast majority members of Congress knowing about it and this is when I start to think about. Maybe we need to know about this. Maybe Congress knew about this. Maybe if the courts knew about this yes we would not have the same policies as the Chinese government. We're listening to the interview fresh. Air's Dave Davies recorded with Edward Snowden. His new memoir is called permanent record. We'll talk more after a break and Justin Chang will review ad Astra the New Science Fiction Drama starring Brad.
"edward snowden" Discussed on The Daily Show with Trevor Noah: Ears Edition
"One was the law broken and that's not actually really particularly interesting question because the law in this case simply was classified information given to someone who is not authorized. I received it which is basically any journalist. It's the public it's you. It's everyone who did not know that their constitutional rights were being violated because that was the secret but there's another question there which is okay if the law is broken was justified and think about this it you murder order someone you can tell the jury will. They were trying to kill me. It was self defense. The jury can go well. Yes they did break the law yes. They did murder someone. It was justified. The government argues that you there is no justification for telling journalists no matter what in fact they forbid the jury from hearing why you did what you did. You cannot voice this and don't take my word for just two days ago the day before my came out. There's a whistle blower lower by the name of Daniel Hale. He's in US prison right now. He was arrested for giving documents that were classified to journalists about the US drone program extrajudicial killings and the United States government just filed in the same court that they're going to charge me Eastern District Virginia they just put put a complaint of filing before the judge that said we demand that the court prohibit the jury from hearing and we prohibit the defendant from saying why why he did what he did. That's relevant should be distracted with Bryson's so I mean that that makes a lot of sense and so you're you're in a serious serious predicament right now. The book is going to come out you know the US government's going to fight not we if we do not get the money from the book they can stop the book from coming out but you on Russia where you've lived for a long time now you seem to be in good spirits which is interesting for someone who's been in Russia for this long like like what is what does someone do not a fan of surveillance. Russia's a weird place to be enjoying your life. Is there something about Russia's no is is I like cool spots in Russia that more people need to learn about is that where Edward Snowden goes in show so Moscow is actually a lot more like New York than you might think for good and bad there. The problem is the politics in Russia. The Human Rights Record Russia are terrible and a lot of people. Don't realize that in this extensively the book I didn't choose to go to Russia. I was on route to Latin America. The United States government cancelled my passport and then when I was trapped in the Russian airport I spent forty days stuck in an airport because I wouldn't cooperate with the Russian authorities. I don't know what the longest layer you guys have never had but forty days that was not the best part of the time. I've spent in Russia. I play for twenty seven different countries around the world places like France Germany Italy Norway Way and every time they got close to letting me come the United States government would call their foreign ministry and it would be then then the vice president or the secretary of state notes. There will be consequences if he led. This guy doesn't matter if it's legal doesn't matter if the Universal Declaration of Human Rights says he has a right to seek an enjoy SILOM silom. There's GonNa be consequences when I say what they are but there will be punishment and so what I ask you guys is you would think right former. NSA former CIA yea like the last place on earth the government would want me to be is in Russia working hard to keep me here and I think the reality there's just a convenient political that will never go away well. You are truly one of the most interesting human beings on the planet because you've lived one of the most interesting lives on the planet but one thing that really struck me from the book is I think a lot of people don't realize how young and normal you are and were before this happened to you like you're just a a young guy who likes computers and play. Video Games and I know that you you actually have to pirate games because you can't use a credit card because then people can track you so like what games are you. Are you like a fortnight person are you games does Edward Snowden play. I played fortnight recently and I I spent like a week on it and then I got really mad because like their matchmaking system and they just put people who don't know what the hell they're doing. The Greatest Oems uh-huh and I'm like come on come on thirty six years old man. I can't keep up with these twelve year old. Well you know I just want to say thank you so much for your time. The book is illuminating I think everyone has benefited from what you've done before you go though I do have one question to that to that regard. Do you think you've made a difference or do you think you've just it's been a big story like is data safer. Has the government changed his tactics or was this offer nothing. Do you live in Russia for for nothing offic. There's no question and this is covered in the book. It's actually the final chapter is sort of an overview of what's changed. There's no question the entire structure of the Internet has changed since two thousand thirteen the world's biggest technology companies good and bad for privacy have re engineered the kind of protections that we experienced that you don't even see simply because they realized the government was sort of going in undercover darkness and helping themselves to the buffet without anybody noticing our laws have changed our international standards has changed but the most important thing and and this is what I think people forget is you don't look for some guy to come out of a building and save the world that that's not how life works what two thousand thirteen did the most important thing that no one can ever change is before two thousand thirteen the idea of mass surveillance people news possible possible there were technologists academics and people who suspected this was going on but it was kind of a conspiracy through because it was a suspicion and that distance since between suspicion and fact is everything a democracy that is all we have in a free society because we can't agree on what is happening. How can we decide what we should do about it. Government in democracy derives its legitimacy from the consent. Eh Governed and the biggest problem twenty thirteen was that consent is only meaningful if it's informed and they lied to US Edward Snowden awesome thank you so much for joining us on the show.
"edward snowden" Discussed on The Daily Show with Trevor Noah: Ears Edition
"I think he might have a problem with your drinking. No you have a problem with my drinking gay. In fact drink is the only thing going right in the world but now some tech assholes trying in a mess it up think of it as an electronic bouncer. One company is called patrons scan and it's us at bars and clubs worldwide. It's scanner information when you enter the bar. You're according to patrons. Scanner only collects your name date of birth photo gender and Zip Code. Why would you wanNA give all that information to a bar. Do you really really trust them. Guys is twenty nineteen. Thanks to facebook. Inflammation is already everywhere. Even starbucks has my blood type cup of Chino for Asian. Negative bounces another thing technologies messing up box the most important thing getting the drink ever. Have someone else gets served at a bar before you even though you were there before them a bar in London is using artificial intelligence to prevent that from ever happening again bars called five. CC heralded sons and the bartenders use AI artificial intelligence to determine who is next in line for drink assistant. GM uses a facial recognition system to put people into a virtual queue. Seriously people need technology to help them get served. I already have a system for that. Okay I just go up to the person in front and tell them the mom died then they run crying and running against his Greg Goossen Gatorade Ronnie. I company lying to people about their MOMS like that. You'll trevor in a bar. It's survival of the fittest okay if you can't get the bartender's attention and maybe you don't deserve a drink okay. That's how it worked for. Thousands of years the jungle is called evolution looked up and if you all bartender would think all this technology is going to make your job easier well think again welcome to the Tizi robot where the bartender never under pours never over pours either and isn't much of a conversationalist. That's the Barton Tony. The robot can make eighty drinks an hour just about any combination you like and never gets it wrong. The maker Shaker gracefully moves he's from bottle to bottle said to be modeled after the movements of an Italian choreographer okay so you're telling me these movements movements were inspired by an Italian choreographer more like a guy jacking off from the L. train right also who has his robot can make eighty drinks and our bartenders do more than that okay. Can this robot be. My friend can listen to my problems. I need a bartender will be like Ronnie. You're too good for your wife. Okay Ronny. Let me talk to your wife Ronnie. I'm going on vacation with your wife Rani. It sounds like you having problems with your marriage. You'll your having problems in my my marriage now. If you excuse me it's happy hour and I think someone's mom just died Ronnie. Chang everybody back. Includes in my guest. Tonight is a former. NSA contractor who in two thousand thirteen leaked classified information exposing the US government system of mass surveillance is new memoir is called permanent record and he joins US remotely from Russia where he lives in exile. Please welcome Edward Snowden. It would snowden welcome to the show. Let's jump straight into the book because I don't know how long you have in that secret hideout where you're doing this interview from. It's just my apartment in Moscow. Oh okay don't tell us where it is. I mean I don't want it. Don't trump dude. Come on some people call the Patriots others. Believe that that that you're a traitor. Do you think this book will change people's perceptions and what do you see yourself as when I set out to write this book. I wasn't trying to change opinions. I was just trying to tell the story of what has happened. and when I'm looking at like the change of technology and everything like that the only way you can get people to pay attention to something that has been an expert conversation for so long. It's so complex is to give them characters right so yeah. It's the story of my life but it's actually about more. It's a dual history of the change of technology and the change of the intelligence community over time when people ask me from a hero trader I say look. I'm just an ordinary person. I like you whistle. Blowers aren't like you know we we. We aren't elected. We're not exceptionally skilled. The thing that that that puts US awesome place the thing that makes disclosure matter are the facts. It's really about what you see rather than what you are so right. We're kind of elected by circumstance one of the things you talk about in the book in fact the first line of the book as you say. I used to work for the government now. I work for the public. What does that mean well. I didn't realize there was a difference. I grew up in a federal family. My my father worked for the government. My mother works for the government in the courts after after she worked for the NSA she actually still works the courts and they the government just sued me on the day. This book hit the shelves right so it was Orna Crime Touche yeah the Nice thing about that the book was not getting that much attention was like twenty five Machar's and then the government said we don't want you read this book. They said God Sousse note and as fast as you can do. Anything can't stop it. Stop It. Stop it and now we're number one basically every attorney general is the best the attorney general has come out and said that you were supposed to pass this book for view so as somebody who's worked in you know when the defense space as somebody who worked with government secrets you a mentor submit this book to them and they are saying they would have pasta. If you just followed the rules widened you follow the rules. Okay well first off. I am a noted rule follower but well why they are technically right right. There's no oath of secrecy. A lot of people think there's an oath of secrecy. There's an oath of service agencies. Not The government is to support and defend the constitution of the United States against all enemies foreign and domestic but there is a secrecy agreement and that's what he's talking about. It's called standard form three twelve and it basically says no after I know all the secrets awesome. I know where the aliens are. I'm not going to tell anybody about it. However if the thing that you see not in your secrecy agreement conflicts with that oath of service if the thing that you see is that the government itself the agency itself is actually violating violating the Constitution won't now you're kind of screwed and then if you try to explain what happened and if you write a book about how it happened and how we get out of it and then you're supposed to send that book to the CIA and let the CIA kind of Edit Your Life Story. Would you do that I would not. I can safely say I would not right. Where do people go so then. Where do we go from here. I mean you became infamous. I four spilling the secrets. People now know about mass surveillance but now we live in a world whereas you talk about in the book surveillance has so many levels to it. You have have institutions that surveilling us. We have private companies. You know surveilling us you see breaches from everyone equifax to facebook what can and people do to protect themselves and their data always the something that we should just give up well so this is a lot of people ask me this and they want like sort the Edward Snowden operational security guide for like how I would use a phone or how I avoid surveillance but guys is. I don't want to live like me. You don't want to have ordinary people fighting arms race against the most well resourced intelligence services on the planet. You don't want ordinary people trying to out engineer senior these technology companies that are basically earning more money than anybody else on the planet that's not reasonable. It doesn't make sense and then when we look at what's happening in Congress Congress is like all will will pass them by the way the United States is one of the only advanced democracies on the planet that doesn't even basic privacy law. Everybody's like Oh we got a privacy law the Fourth Amendment Fourth Amendment obviously very dear to me. That's what I stood up and really burn my life the ground over but the fourth amendment only restricts the Operations Parisians the federal government and the state government doesn't do squat for you against Google and facebook so they say data protection laws right and we've had advances since two thousand thirteen. More communications are encrypted. Now you gotTa Cricket Messengers We've got laid lots of ways to be safe for right but then we talk about what all these guys are doing and how they're monitoring all US they data protection laws but the problem with data protection laws is that it presumes the data collection. I was okay and that's the problem as you might have been realized. I was flipping through your memoir before this because that's kind of what spies do you wrote. You wrote actually really movingly about something struck me. It was kind of similar to one of the chapters in my book mine was it's called the boy and it's about how I am in my final position working directly with the tools of mass surveillance. I can see anybody's emails. I can see what you're texting back and forth you know the guys that are working to left and right at me are turning their monitor to show me nudes of the wife one of their targets and they say a bonus but then I see this picture it was actually video of a child in the lap of his father and you know it's like a toddler there smacking on the keyboard and they don't realize what's going on but it kind anik glance at the camera and I felt like he was looking at me. I mean this really shook me because when we're talking about surveillance we're talking so much about abstraction. We're talking about things that don't feel real right and when I was looking at yours you mentioned buying a camera at some point. There are so many times you know you get. An Electric Razor doesn't really bother it doesn't strike you as anything criminal right but the camera inside of it that contains people's memories in their lives right. You realized that it wasn't a thing that had been stolen. It was a memory and that was in the context of one person. I realized that the machine was technologist and say by all of the different parts that working with all of the systems they had stolen and were stealing not just one person's memories they're stealing everyone's runs everywhere all the time and they still are right now and so. I got up out of the chair and you know I didn't try to burn turn down the NSA. I DIDN'T I've published zero documents. I gave them to journalists and there's a long complicated thing in book about how and why and where the lines are but I wanted not to say. This is the way the world should be. I wanted to give it to you. I wanted to say this is what's happening and it really elite guys. The question for you is how do you want to live. We are today being used against the future. We're being used against our children. Everything we do. Ooh Now lasts forever not because we want to remember it because we're no longer allowed to forget so then when people read this book and people read through through the life of Edward Snowden and what you had to do as you say burn down your life to expose these secrets some might say will Edward why don't you come back to the US us and then just fight you know the legal system and prove your case you know and you've you've said previously you can't do that because some of the information you need to fight your case. Is something something that they would not allow you to use in courts but you you at a point now where people know the name of the book is going to be out now. Do you think you would take your chances coming back to the US and hope that one juror would see your point of view or are you just living in Russia now forever. Is that Your Life No. This is a great question. My ultimate goal will always be to return back to the United States and I've told the government actually from year one that I only had one condition for returning and that's that I could get a fair trial. Now people go what's fair trial. What does that mean. and I think that's actually not that hard question. There were two questions that come up in this case..
"edward snowden" Discussed on Fresh Air
"The NSA through the FBI and this being replicated again and again and again throughout the country and across the world. It's not everywhere but it's closed just everywhere as we can get and this means. It's basically every communication that can be intercepted. that can be stored award can be processed at can be decrypted. We can search and we can read. You Sat at one of these terminals and had access to this. Can you describe looking at the material of a professor in Indonesia right yes so this is an academic He is just some kind of engineer. I believe he's applying for either a position or a period of study at a university in Iran and the US government for whatever reason has an interest in this particular university. We don't spy on every university but we spy on interestingly a lot of them which would surprise people but is. Iran so people go okay. You know maybe there's some intelligence value. Maybe this guy's a terrorist and what struck me here. Was that normally when we do a deep dive and we look into someone it's because they're up to no good it's because they're associated with terrorism. this gentleman affect was not he's applying to university but he's caught up in the dragnet and so they have his university admissions application they have pictures of his passport and then. I see something unusual something that I normally see. I see a video file now. Now we can intercept video files just like we do with everything else but this one to me indicated that it was produced because we had hacked his machine we had turned his Webcam on while he was at the machine and we do this. Sometimes to to confirm particularly infrastructure analysts who at this anonymous honest machine is actually using it to fund. He's on his laptop right. Yes he's he's on his laptop and we're we're looking at the man behind the device in his lap his little boy a toddler who's just playing on the keyboard and the father smiling and Lou boy looks at the Webcam. It's it's just a glimpse but to me it seems as though he's looking at me in it reminds me of my childhood of learning about technology with with my own father and I realized this man has done nothing wrong. He's just trying to get a job. He's just trying to study. He's just trying to get through life like all of us are and yet. He's caught up. His children are caught up. We we are all caught up by a system that we were not allowed to know existed but we were not allowed to vote whether this was proper or improper and courts were not allowed to assess open courts real courts whether it was proper and constitution Where do we go from there. Edward Snowden is new memoir is called permanent record will continue our conversation after a short break this is fresh.
"edward snowden" Discussed on Fresh Air
"Air's Dave Davies recorded with Edward Snowden a former. It systems manager who worked under contract for the national security the agency in two thousand thirteen he gave three journalists access to thousands of classified documents describing US intelligence agencies surveillance of American can citizens snowden spoke today through an Internet connection from his apartment in Moscow a year a guy who believed end the US intelligence services. You are the son of two career government servants. When you discover this broad surveillance what what impact does it have on emotionally. It was a severe relation because think about it and you know people look let me now and they think I'm this crazy. I am this extremist whatever some people have a misconception that guy he set out to burn down the NSA but that's not what this this was about in many ways twenty thirteen wasn't about surveillance at all what it was that was a violation of the constitution what was about democracy and government. I had signed lined up to help my country and my very first day entering into duty for the CIA. I was required to pledge an oath of service now. A lot of people confused. I think there's an oath of secrecy but this is important understand. There's a secrecy agreement. This is a civil agreement with the government. A nondisclosure agreement uncalled standard form three twelve very exciting that says you won't talk to journalists. You won't write books. I have done but a the when you give this of service. It's something very different. It's a pledge of allegiance not to the agency not to a government not the president but to support support and defend the constitution of the United States against all enemies foreign and domestic and so when I realized we have been violating in secret the fourth amendment of the Constitution for the better part of a decade and the rate of violations increasing the scope of the violations increasing with every day we are committing Finland. He's in the United States at under a direct mandate from the White House billions of times a day honestly I fell into depression and this leads to a period where I resigned from what would be considered direct mission related related work out in Japan and the foreign field as we call it and I returned to a purely corporate position for Dell as a as a sales official don't let CIA headquarters before you actually go through the revelations of this material you described going to Fort Meade the NSA's essays headquarters and you see analysts using a tool that allows them to exploit the fruits of all this mass surveillance. It's a tool called X. Key Key score. Would it allow these guys to do okay so you to do so when you think about all of these intelligence programs you've heard of right. They've got your email. I got your Internet communications. They've got your phone calls but for everybody everywhere. Obviously this isn't just a straight stream. People are reading. Is it comes in because it would take more hours in the day. Hey thank you know any government has people go through so what they actually do is they just dump this into gigantic data centers like they've built in. BLUFF DALE UTAH and other smaller couvert ones around the world so they don't have to move data around so they construct what's called a distributed query system you can think of this like Google for spies and what it does anywhere in the world that we've collected information every were in. Sep Intercepting Communications. Now we have have our own little search engine. It's Google box that little prompt that you can access from your desk wherever you are just an NSA NSA internal website and you can type in anybody's phone number anybody's email address any computers Internet address and the anywhere on the Internet one of our sensors collected a communication it will look through instantly everything that it has and it will send just the results back to that employee so you can spy on anyone in the world from anywhere in the world as long as you have access to this network work in this tool so if you had the clearance you pick a name you get. Their phone calls their web searches. What so I'm working with the Internet side of it we have people who work with telephony data which is largely phone calls and S.'s but your Internet data eight is everything everything largely that transit the global communication network if you send it over satellite hop we have what are called foreign set foreign satellite sites sites all over the world that are just listening to the sky. If you're sending it to a cell phone tower well we hack those all over the world to the best of our ability. If you send.
"edward snowden" Discussed on Fresh Air
"Ideas and and encouraging meaningful conversation to privacy advocates our guest Edward Snowden is a hero a whistle blower who exposed abuses by government intelligence intelligence agencies to others. He's a traitor who exposed national security secrets. SNOWDEN WASN'T IT systems expert working under contract for the the National Security Agency in twenty thirteen when he provided three journalists with thousands of top secret documents about US intelligence agencies surveillance of American citizens the revelations made snowden a wanted man accused of violating the espionage act they also led to changes in the laws and standards entered governing US intelligence agencies and the practices of US technology companies which now encrypt much of their web traffic for security snowden has lived live for the past six years in Russia out of reach of American law. He's written a new memoir about his life and experiences in the intelligence community. It's called Permanent Senate record. SNOWDEN spoke to fresh air's. Dave Davies via an Internet connection from snowden apartment in Moscow will Edward Snowden. Welcome to fresh air. I want to begin with the suspicion that some have that you are. A tool of the Russian government. Were collaborating with Russia. I I know that you ended up in Russia stranded at the airport because you had released these documents to journalists in Hong Kong and had booked a flight flight to Kito but after the first leg in Moscow your passport was invalidated by the US State Department so he got stuck in Moscow. You met a Russian intelligence is operatives. You believe at the airport that day in two thousand thirteen. What was the conversation like you have to remember that I worked for the Central Intelligence Agency? I'm very skeptical because of every intelligence service at this point in my life. I've just worked with journalists to reveal mass surveillance up. Now I know again having been trained ended the CIA through customs are what an interdiction at passport control looks like very much what to expect if anybody is up to no good and so the main thing is to survive getting through Russia on route then to Cuba Venezuela and onto Ecuador you have to travel through non on extradition countries build the kind of Airbridge to get one destination to the other from Hong Kong because every direct flight from Hong Kong I'm to Ecuador goes over. US airspace right so they can bring you down over California which is a very problematic thing to be vulnerable to for a person in my position so what I wasn't expecting was that the United States government itself as you said would cancel my passport so I'm stopped at at passport control and there's this you know the standard passport officer and when I go through the line. He takes a little bit too long. He picks phony makes call and I realize it's longer than everybody else and suddenly he looks at me. Just says did his problem with passport. Come with and I'm lead very quickly into this business lounge. which this very much not standard normally you'd be taken off to the security area and go in and it's a room full of Russian? Guys in business suits an unmistakably. There's the old guy he's in charge and he begins to Mak- what the CIA would call cold pitch now. This is where you have no history but they try to just say do you. You want to cooperate with us now. This is a very unusual situation being foreign intelligence officer because these kind of pitches requests requests for cooperation or almost always made clandestinely. They're made in private where they can be denied in. The first thing I'm thinking about because every alarm bell in my head is ringing is are they recording this are they using this to try to blackmail meet coerce me so immediately. I go look I worked for the CIA okay. I know what this is. I know what this how this is supposed to go. This is not going to be that kind of conversation. I'm not going to cooperate. I don't have any documentation with me and this is something that publicly is not very well understood but I destroyed my access to the archive. I had no material with me before before I left Hong Kong because I knew I was going to go have to go through this complex multi jurisdictional route and so this was the moment where they tried and he was he. He was basically saying look. Is there anything you can do. Is there any small piece of information anything you share because life is going to be very difficult record for person in your situation. If you don't have friends no thanks great but I'm not interested. I'll be fine on my own and then they get up and they say I hope you won't regret your decision. A little bit of a sinister moment and then they walk out so you declined there the the Russian intelligence request to cooperate then you got stuck in the airport for forty days because you didn't have a passport sport. They eventually grant temporary asylum right. That's correct and I actually just to to drill in there a little bit. you've said something very important which was that. I was trapped apt airport for forty days again for those people who might be a little bit skeptical of me if I had cooperated with the Russian government right. If you think I'm a Russian spy. I would have been in that airport for five minutes before they drove me out in a limo you know to the palace we're reliving the rest of my days before they throw the parade aid where they call me a hero of Russia instead. I was trapped in this airport for forty days. Where instead of saying you know Russia. Please let me in I applied for some in twenty seven different countries around the world places like Germany France Norway that I thought the US government and the American public would be much more comfortable with me being there and yet we saw something extraordinary happened. Just just one thing which is that the. US Government worked quite hard to make sure I didn't leave Russia to the point that they actually grounded the presidential aircraft of the President of Bolivia which is like grounding Air Force One. It's something that's really unprecedented. Diplomatic Mattock history and it's very much an open question today. Why did the US government worked so hard to keep me in Russia. We don't have a clear answer. We never have have that until more people in the Obama administration start writing memoirs but it's either they panicked when they realized this would be an evergreen political attack where they could just use guilt oh by association people's suspicion of the Russian government to try to taint me by proxy you say in the book that you applied for asylum to believe twenty seven countries was Russia one of them at the very end yes. There's a sort of a circumstantial case of suspicion right. I mean sense. This happened in two thousand thirteen. We've seen you know the Russian interference in the US election. It's collaboration according to the Muller report with wikileaks and getting stolen emails to affect the election and I think there's just a general belief that in this authoritarian state Edward snowden wouldn't be able to live for six years unless he were useful all to the Russian government. What's the general answer to that. I think this is for a lot of people who have sort of a a Hollywood understanding of how international affairs and intelligence it's works but the reality is even the case of as you said electoral interference in the case of wikileaks the Muller report the United States government itself never alleges that for example wikileaks even knew that they were talking to Russian intelligence wikileaks entire system is designed so they don't know who submitting documents and even even granting that they came from Russian intelligence that that was in fact the case every newspaper in the world thought were newsworthy stories of the New York Times The Washington Post. Everybody was reporting on this and when you look beyond the sort of the standard examples that we look at in case of electoral interference and we look look toward my case there is that question if he's not cooperating with the Russian government. Why would he be allowed to stay and I think the answer answer. Here's actually quite obvious. Russia doesn't need to do anything or rather the Russian government doesn't need to do anything to look good in this circumstance dance it shows that they have an independent foreign policy to their public because I applied to all these other countries in Europe or silent and all of their governments unfortunately could be threatened to revoke their expressions of support and this happened. This is a long well reported campaign where every time a country started into lean towards letting me in it would be either the secretary of state or the vice president of the United States that would call their foreign ministry and say look if you let this guy and we're going to retaliate and Russians very much consider themselves to be a European country so if the rest of Europe is afraid to do something and Russia is not afraid to do something that that makes Russians feel good and remember we did this in verse so Russia and the Soviet Union for the last fifty years so of course if we have an example or an instance where the whole world sees basically the United States government is not living up to its values. The Russian government is going to be very eager just underline that that's all they need do receive any financial support from the Russian government. No no this is. I'm one of the things that again is a common misconception. People sort of think about my life. They think I'm living in a bunker. There's Russian guards you. You know the the Russian government and I have any contact whatsoever. They're paying me now. I have my own apartment. I have my own income. I live a fully independent life. I have never and will never accept money your housing or any other assistance from the Russian government you didn't exactly have a typical adolescence you ended up spending nights on the computer school not of great interest to you you tell the story of looking being at the website of the Los Alamos National Laboratory into the did all this nuclear research and discovering that anybody with little understanding of Computers Directory Systems uh-huh could get internal memos. You looked at confidential memos that were just available. You call the general number the lab and left a message and said this is a problem you. You've actually got a call back. Tell us about that so my mother gets a little bit of a rude awakening because she's making dinner and I'm sitting in the living room on this computer and she picks up the phone says Yes yes he's here and she turns and looks at me and as I see her hearing the other side of the call all that I can't hear her face just gets Pale and she looks at me her eyes grow wide and she covers the receiver and she says like shoot tell and when I get up out of my chair and pick up the phone and this this man says I'm from Los Alamos Nuclear Laboratory these are the sweetest words anyone have told me in the moment because I'm like. Oh thank God because I had left that message because I had called because I hadn't really done anything wrong. I had simply been curious as a boy scout. I called this facility and said Hey. There's something broken on your website. You should do something about that and my mother did not punish me for this in fact she was very proud of the fact that I told them they had a weakness in their website and Los Alamos for all things once once they realized I was a child. I think they'd been expecting someone older. They said when I turned eighteen I should give them a call. You wanted to use your skills. Your skills sales were in the area of computers and you'll get your way into the intelligence..
"edward snowden" Discussed on The Art of the Exit
"You said to me and where your first discussing the story this could be considered the most notorious intelligence terrance heist of all time in especially the fact that he essentially has gotten away. Scot free for the most part but I know there's a financial implication. I know there are many. Will you talk about those as well. Maybe what this is cost. The United States estimated what what are the costs involved in and what happened with Edward Snowden. Yeah there's a there are a few different costs in terms of there's the cost of the resources spent inspire the NSA in the FBI in terms of trying to track him down and work this case the NSA. We know from the black budget. That's known meeting was published in The Washington Post that their budgets by ten billion dollars a year in a We're moving resources around to do that so there's there's the cost of of that there is the cost of reputational damage to US companies after this because he's basically people started thinking that the US government could tap into your facebook that was like the simple person the symbol explanation that people would understand if they weren't really following the news that they'd heard about it. They thought that the US government could get into all these companies which is not the case ace is nowhere close but these these big tech companies do have a law enforcement relationship so they took reputational damage and there was a great paper in the February of two thousand seventeen he was updated by Microsoft Research Office and they kinda look did all the existing estimates of how much money was lost and and and they said that the the expected losses to the US cloud industry where at least eighteen billion dollars. That's one kind of quantitative figure on it. This paper makes a really fascinating point in that for these individual companies. They had to spend money to harden encryption. They had to win the trust back of their customers customers and so they spent money kind of investing to create more solid structures in that's arguably a good thing the apple leading the way in terms of encrypted phones but he was forced. Edward Snowden forced the hand and then current day and looking now. There's the fascinating aspect of Wa wa the way being a Chinese telecom companies. That's the US alleges is very close to the Chinese government and they're the lead the world's leading telecom equipment provider and so the worry is is that they could access other countries systems simply by having back doors and their telecom equipment the the US is is fighting a very high high stakes diplomatic kind of battle right now banning away from the US and trying to lobby governments to not use this in one of Weiwei's defenses against US accusations is oh well just look at what Edward Snowden and showed us the US government is is is the one doing this. We're not doing doing this so he's kind of used as a shield to deflect this kind of criticism which is fast and you can't really quantify that but it it does have an effect on commerce today which is kind of one of the interesting long tail effects of snowing last question and this is your opinion that I'm asking is Edward Snowden a hero or a Villain Ellen so sometimes I think about a story that I wrote covering this in the summer summer two thousand thirteen and the headline is Edward. Snowden is both a Patriot and a traitor and and I think that that story has aged pretty well the basic thesis of it was that he's a Patriot for exposing providing evidence silence of post nine nine eleven domestic surveillance activity that move the ball forward in terms of the conversation of post nine eleven abuses and there's that transparency transparency argument. That's it's really there's a commendable part of of that in the reforms that have come out after that and then there's this other shoe about all the rest of the stuff and I'm really ambivalent because I think that both of those things can be true through. I think he's a very complicated figure and I'm interested in you know that's why I spent time looking into the person because he was obviously very disgruntled. Build again and again in his life and there was a certain anger in his actions and it seems from just an observational point of view that that he stole information unrelated to civil liberties of the things that would make him a whistle blower and so that that kind of goes beyond that in the the the question becomes how far beyond it to go and that's an interesting question. I don't think it's been answered yet so we could do one of these episodes. Just on the the the colorful words used by the true hoo-ha Snowden alias on the ars Technica Forms uh-huh between the years two thousand one in two thousand twelve and one of my favorites is from June twelfth. Two thousand has an eight so this would be right before Edward Snowden turned twenty five and he's working for the CIA at the time and he writes his own. He starts a forum post and it's titled Okay Okay. This is getting real. I had a vision and so the post reads. I woke up this morning with a new name. I had a vision a dream vision a vision righteous and true true before me I saw Gamers gamers shrouded in the glory of their true names step forth and assume your name in the Pantheon. It's it's always been there. Your avatars true name it slips through your sub conscious. Brazil reveals itself under your posts and flashed visibly in that moment point of unrestrained spite in the indulgent teabag. You've felt known it recognize it now realize it. I woke up this morning with a new name. That name is Wolfgang Wolf King Awesome Fox and this is. It's just a really fun on an interesting posted captures a lot of Edward Stones a personality and even if you break down the Etima at Amal of of this name Wolf King Awesome Fox it has this kind of voracious nece to it it has this kind of illusions of grandeur to in and that's exactly who his personality was online so you know people say that Edward Snowden is related related to the true how that would be his alias but really every stone is true aliases Wolfgang Awesome Fox.
"edward snowden" Discussed on The Art of the Exit
"From Yahoo Finance. This is the art of the exit. I'm Alex. You're early on the scene with Snowden so maybe tell me what was going on with you your writing about the whole situation. You also uncovered a lot as it was starting to progress. Maybe just tell L. Your story. The snowden leaks came at a great time for me professionally and personally in the sense that as a young reporter at business insider I was interested in national security and I was interested in specifically domestic spying so when Snowden came out it. It really hit directly on my beat. This is Michael B Kellie my colleague Yahoo Finance. He's an expert on the Snowden case and agreed to help tell the story and so I covered it immediately and then something interesting happened in the League started on about on June fifth two thousand thirteen and he identified himself on June ninth Hong Kong time then two days later after he identifies himself Edward Snowden American whistle lar- he gives an interview with the South China Morning Post he also provides documents to that reporter Lana Lamb and those those documents were actually detailed operations against China as opposed to domestic surveillance activities of of the NSA which was is the big kind of reveal of snow documents when he gave that interview saying I have more documents. I have to go through the mall. I did not provide these documents to journalists before four in the actual details of the documents were foreign intelligence operations the US against China it piqued my interest in a different way and when I asked an expert cyber expert who'd worked with NATO to put together the international rule book called the talent manual for cyber operations he said Yeah and Snowden revealed to dispatch. I'm wearing post is just spying. It's just an updated version of espionage. That's been going going on forever but now the technology is much better at that point my mind kind of went on parallel tracks where it was obvious that the early snowden leaks had exposed something that was important for American society and start a privacy discussion that continues to this day. There is also this aspect aspect of well. Why is he also leaking this information that doesn't really have that same public interest in in mind and it really is only helpful to the people he's leaking inobound namely the Chinese government and even Glenn Greenwald all two's the the main and most aggressive journalists on the snowden case in who one of the the three journalists that snowden really work within provided documents since two he was asked by a reporter at the time and he said yeah basically paraphrasing that that if he had to guess who would be that was trying to ingratiate himself to the people of Hong Kong and the authorities and that in itself is a recognition that that snowden was no longer acting out of altruism he was a very selfish act in the sense that he was trying to to save himself from being caught by authorities handed over gouges and so that that added an extra element to the story so was everybody else sings divergence like you said these two parallel tracks trains of thought almost like he's a good guy on one side and in a bad guy on the other side or is that unique to something you noticed than maybe others had there weren't that many people who noticed it if you speak to former government officials officials at at the time they certainly noticed it they knew the difference between those two pieces of Information William Binnie any who was a mathematician at the NSA for thirty years. He ended up quitting right after nine eleven because he believed that there were abuses being committed. E actually came out after are snow leaked that information to the South China and post and said well. He's transitioning from a whistleblower to a traitor which is is a pretty wild statement in a couple years later. I actually asked Bill Binney about that statement and he said when pressed he said that he stood by that statement well and he's kind of a hero to Snowden so that's it's a fascinating aspect but for the most part in two thousand thirteen those leaks the initial ones really just rocked. Everyone and they kept coming there. was there was a really really good story developing which was ever snowed in the whistle blower the champion of privacy and everyone's freedoms that that was really the dominant story so this subtexts that there is this other element to it didn't really catch on at the time that subtexts. Michael's referring two has become the most interesting part of the story to me when looking at motives it always just comes down to the person who was Edward Snowden before four he began handing over those documents well see a brave Patriot willing to put his whole life on the line to create more transparency in the US or is there something else behind these actions the only way to get any clear direction as to look snow's life before the leaks. Why don't you tell me what you know about him. What made Edward Snowden the way he is yeah that that's a really fascinating part of the story and and it it's a different part of the story but it's it's part of the story that becomes important when evaluating intent. Why does anyone do anything and you know we are the end of all the actions that we've taken before now and we are created by the context in which we grew up and was born in Nineteen eighty-three so depending on where you put the cut off a millennial. He's is right there. He's he's one of the original digital natives. He liked computers. he was very good at it. He t took to it very well. he grew up in North Carolina for a time lived not far from Fort Mead where the NSA is based EGR opening of government family is mother works for the courts. His father worked in the the Coast Guard. He had a tough teen years. He dropped out of high school when he was about fifteen and he says because he got mono and just didn't go back his parents got divorced when he was seventeen going on eighteen and he was basically at that point on socializing mostly on the Internet on these ars technica forms so the first time he logged on December of two thousand and one over the next ten plus years he is on on and off but on those forms his last post is right before he allegedly started stealing documents. You learn a lot about his personality. He calls himself an indoor cat but now and he lives in Moscow because he's just computer all the time Gotcha. You said one thing that I want to kind of dig at when he dropped out of high school because is he claimed to have motto. You say that saying like we a lot of people get mono and it doesn't take them out of high school. Necessarily what do you think was the the real story. They're like what what caused that. You think it's impossible to say based on what we're going on in terms of these are these online artifacts of his posts online. He rails against institutional schooling. He doesn't like the system. He never liked system. Whatever system he's in in the first time we see that is through the school system so yeah. It's true that you know almost everyone knows people who had mono in high school and those people didn't drop out so ah it suggests that there was a larger context there and it becomes interesting for Edward Snowden his life because a lot of times medical reasons become so important at different stages so he joined the Special Forces training program and this is right around when the Iraq war is really heating up and he did he basically washed out but he says that he broke both of his legs in a training accident accident so there's another medical reason for him to leave this institution this different institition people haven't hasn't his medical records haven't been published because that's a privacy thing but the official reason for him leaving was an administrative discharge wasn't a medical discharge and and if you talk to form officials that's kind of a big difference right so and and even even if you would have broken his legs if he wanted to stay in the the program he could have just like if you get mono in high school and you want to stay in highschool there are there are ways that they can accommodate even in the military tearing right and famous most famously win he left the NSA Hawaii to go to Hong Kong with all his documents. He told his boss that he had to go to a doctor because he had epilepsy so there's another medical reason to leave an institution but that was actually sleep just as cover story said he he'd get a few days time lead time to go to Hong Kong. This is a something that's repeated itself pattern in in his story. We spoke a little beforehand and you said something interesting that I I wanted to kind of talk about too because clearly he was in. He was online like you said an indoor cat even back then but he also interests in gaming right. Wasn't that part like He. He was an arcade visitor. Yeah he's he talks about the arcade in Maryland. He's really big into tech and one of the the Internet pages that he was on he put his occupation as Tekken and you you know he's on all these different threads but over the years he's consistently on video game threads whether it's.
WhatsApp Users Spread Rumors in World's Biggest Democracy
"Support for this podcast and the following message. Come from Deloitte, a global leader in digital transformation helping clients apply. Technologies like cloud an AI to their unique business challenges Deloitte got com slash look again. This is tech news briefing. Im Tanya boost does reporting from the newsroom in London. And the spread of false information is a fire. The world is still trying to contain in India in particular. Brian fake, news has lit social media aflame as the world's largest democracy prepares for national elections. More after these tech headlines. The national security agency has suggested to the White House that it ditch a surveillance program that collects data about calls and text messages saying the logistical and legal burdens of keeping it outweigh its intelligence benefits. Former intelligence contractor Edward Snowden leaked the existence of the program nearly six years ago, and it ignited and international uproar. The Wall Street Journal reported last month that the NSA was considering ending the meta data program, but such conversations were in the early stages. Scientists have harnessed artificial intelligence to translate brain signals into speech, a huge step toward brain plants that one day let people with impaired abilities speak their minds a research team at the university of California. San Francisco introduced an experimental brain decoder that combines direct recording of signals from the brains of research subjects with AI machine learning and a speech synthesizer. And when perfected the system could give people who can't speak such as stroke patie-. And cancer victims the ability to conduct conversations at an actual pace. The journals Lijo tes is covering it all read more at wsJcom or the WSJ app. And now, let's talk about Domino's and data because pizza Domino's pizza believes keeping control of its delivery remains critical for the quality of its pizza. So what is it not going to do surrender to some random third party? That's according to its CEO who told investors when talking earnings this week that it's not clear why Domino's should quote give up the data in our business to some third party. Who will ultimately use it against us, and quote, the world's biggest pizza chain does use third party platforms abroad in addition to its own fleet. But the results have been mixed Domino's pizza has big plans for your car. It recently announced a plan for millions of connected cars starting this year. We're customers will be able to place and track orders on car touchscreens coming up around the world efforts to stop the spread of misinformation. Are having little effect. Why the problem continues to grow in the world's biggest democracy support for this podcast and the following message? Come from Deloitte, a global leader in digital transformation helping clients apply. Technologies like cloud an AI to their unique business challenges Deloitte got com slash look again. In india? The fight against fake news is in full force as we all know the spread of false information is a runaway train of global proportions. But the Wall Street Journal's newly Cornell in his coverage explains why the problem is particularly bad in India. Millions of people are getting online for the first time, thanks to cheap smartphones and plummeting prices for mobile data. Many of these first time web users are using the messaging app. What's up with an estimated three hundred million users? India is what's the biggest market sending texts videos and photos doesn't incur the same costs as conventional text one user can create a group with as many as two hundred fifty five people just like in the US Europe and beyond political campaigns have managed to play on cultural and economic divides win campaigns want to target voters. They often blast tailored political messages to hundreds of what's up groups. They spread misinformation about sensitive subjects like India's relationship with Pakistan or religious stereotypes. Fact checking groups say this exacerbates social tensions. In addition, many Indians who are getting online for the first time live in rural areas where there is limited education about digital literacy. So how does social media tackle such a problem ahead of the elections? Facebook took down hundreds of pages in accounts that were specifically spreading misleading content or spam messages. What's app has made it harder for people to share messages a user. Now as limited to fording one message to only five groups. What's have also introduced temp line where people can submit dubious claims to be fact checked though, it's effective nece. So far is unclear despite these efforts fact, taking groups say misinformation isn't going away anytime soon for more details had to wsJcom that ends this edition of tech news briefing for the Wall Street Journal Ontong Tanya boost thanks for listening.
"edward snowden" Discussed on Newsradio 1200 WOAI
"An unpopular opinion. I'm not mad at you. I'm wishing we had two hours to explore. I think hell it will be an onion that the more. We peel the more. We might find George. Go ahead. Yes. I believe in UFO's. All right. I think that's more popular than you than you would believe then you would expect Kelly. Go ahead. Got kelly. Yes, I was calling to see if I could have to I think that we should not allow baby born here to be citizens about their parents are citizens or at least here legally and the other one I just wanted to put the female point. And I agree with the guy that I don't think women should be police officers and firemen and as far as the military definitely not combat, but that his because there are positions they might do. But that also takes away from the easier positions for the guys to do when they're injured though, it's kind of an air. And I think that men should be principles of public sports. Interesting James, go ahead. Edward Snowden man eleven and America's long based on Christianity. Edward Snowden is based on Chris Edward Snowden. Nine eleven and the fact that American laws are based on Christianity. Edward snorts Snowden being portrayed as a traitor. Nine eleven being it wasn't an inside job. And America's laws not based on Christianity. So you've you've listed subjects. But I don't know what you're unpopular opinions are. I would think that all of them would be unpopular opinion. Those aren't opinions. Those are subject, you didn't state the opinion. Jeremy go ahead. Is the almighty creator or Jesus is father and there's power in that name. That's the sacred secret. Is your name? Jeremy? It's theresa. Mess that out. But he did maybe he getting confused when you start talking about Jehovah. Yeah. I didn't say that must be.
"edward snowden" Discussed on News Radio 1190 KEX
"Believe that. An unpopular opinion. I'm not mad at you. I'm wishing we had two hours to explore. I think Helen will be an onion that the more. We peel the more. We might find George. Go ahead. Yes. Believe in UFO's. All right. I think that's more popular than you than you would believe then you would expect Kelly. Go ahead. Kelly. Yes, I was calling to see if I could have to I think that we should not allow babies born here to be citizens of us. Our parents our citizens or at least here legally and the other one I just wanted to put the female point. And I agree with the guy that I don't think women should be police officers firemen, and it's worth the military. Definitely not combat. But that discussable because there are positions they might do. But that also takes away from the easier positions for the guys do when they're injured though, kind of up in the air. And I think that men should be principles of public schools. Interesting James, go ahead. Edward Snowden nine eleven and America's long based on Christianity. Edward Snowden is based on Edward Snowden nine eleven. And the fact that American laws.
"edward snowden" Discussed on KTRH
"That. An unpopular opinion. I'm not mad at you. I'm wishing we had two hours to explore. I think Helen will be an onion that the more. We peel the more. We might find George. Go ahead. Yes. I believe in close. All right. I think that's more popular than you would then you would believe then you would expect Kelly. Go ahead. Kelly. Yes, I was calling to if I could have to I think that we should not allow babies born here to be citizens of us. Our parents our citizens or at least here legally and the other one I just wanted to put the female point. And I agree with the guy that I don't think women should be police officers firemen, and as far as the military definitely not combat, but that his castle because there are positions I might do. But that also takes away from the easier positions. So the guys do when they're injured though, kind of up in the air. And I think that men should be principles of public sports. Interesting James, go ahead. Edward Snowden nine eleven and America's long based on Christianity. Edward Snowden is based on Chris Edward Snowden. Nine eleven. And the fact that American laws are based on Christianity. Edward Snowden Snowden being portrayed as a traitor. Nine eleven being it wasn't an inside job. And America's laws not based on Christianity. So you've you've listed subjects. But I don't know what you're unpopular opinions are. I would think that all three of them would be unpopular opinions. Those aren't opinions. Those are subject, you didn't state the opinion. Jeremy go ahead. Is the almighty creator is father and there's power in that name. That's the sacred secret. Is your name? Jeremy? Now, it's Theresa. Hi. Out that he did. Maybe he get confused when you start talking about Jehovah. Yeah. I didn't that him. He must be right..
Police decrypt 258000 messages after breaking pricey IronChat crypto app
"Police in the Netherlands claimed have decrypted more than two hundred fifty eight thousand messages sent using the app iron chat, which is an end to end encrypted chat service. In fact, the two men who ran blackbox security who operated iron shed have been arrested on charges of money laundering. Please have taken down the server used to send messages they've also taken down the website server, those might be the same servers. But they've they're both off line. It's an unknown. How the police were able to read the messages, but the best guesses involves some kind of weakness in how the iron chat app handled encryption the Netherlands police are not claiming to have broken. The encryption an article published by Dutch public broadcaster NAS detailed several weaknesses in iron chat, like easy to miss notifications of a change in key, which could be an indication of an attempted man in the middle attack or failure to check if the server sending the messages is the correct ones he could spoof things. So Dutch police might have used any number of methods to trick themselves into being able to get the messages without breaking the. Decryption iron Chet claimed to be a choice of Edward Snowden. Although that is not verified is something. They just put up on their website.
NSA deletion of more than 685 million call records raises questions
"The wasser ban dangled tickets you could use some anytime or limited time this is kelly show kfi am six forty more stimulating talk down to the kfi news from foreign update demonstrators rallied in cities all over the nation against the trump administration's immigration policy california lieutenant governor gavin newsom was one of today's featured speakers at the families belong together event downtown la the candidate for governor says diversity is what makes la unique i don't know about you but i think the world looks to us looks to each and every one of you to see that it's possible to live together to advance together and prosper together across every conceivable and imaginable different sows people turned out to protest at the event earlier today also speaking at the rally were us representative maxine waters and l a mayor garcetti the feds are filling the recycle bin the national security agency is deleting more than six hundred eightyfive million call records obtained since two thousand fifteen from telecommunication companies in connection with investigations the bulk collection of call records was initially restricted by congress after former contractor edward snowden leaked documents revealing extensive government surveillance a law enacted in june two thousand fifteen said that going forward the info would be retained by the telecoms not the nsa but the agency could access the massive database aaron bender kfi news president trump says he wants to rebuild the nation's transportation infrastructure and to strengthen the us steel industry through tariffs on imports second goal could make it more costly to accomplish the first that's because the president's own tariffs raise steel prices and created uncertainty for big transportation projects steel is essential in the building of bridges roads and railroads pasadena museum of california art is closing museums going to close october seventh when it's three current exhibitions and their runs the pm see a board voted earlier this month to close a museum because they were out of money museum was founded in two thousand two by a wealthy couple traffic from your helpful socal honda traffic center.
NSA deletion of more than 685 million call records raises questions
"Newsradio twelve hundred w newsradio twelve hundred w away i news director jim forsyth is at main plaza downtown for san antonio's version of an antitrump immigration rally one of more than one hundred scheduled across the us for today jim i'm seeing signs air saying things like the united states is kidnapping children pictures of children with signs reading i'm in a baby prison and a lot of opposition to president trump a lot of people wearing t shirts reading impeach there's a sign in front of me right now united states unite families this is is a rally that is opposing the white house's zero tolerance plan toward immigrants at the border even though president trump has signed an order ending the divide the division of families a lot of these people don't believe it's happening at a lot of these people want zero tolerance to go away on main plaza jim foresights newsradio twelve hundred w police in maryland continue their probe into an attack that left five people dead in a newsroom in annapolis as a small memorial take shape outside the offices of the capital gazette newspaper in annapolis we have learned a bit more about the alleged gunman thirty eight year old jared ramos accused of gunning down five newspaper employee's in a brutal attack police today being stymied though because they say ramos is not cooperating ramos is believed to have had a long simmering feud with the newspaper and at one point he sued for defamation a case he lost was that behind this attack that terrorized not just the newspaper offices but a number of other nearby businesses and this morning rama's continues to sit in jail without bond following years of controversy and numerous missteps the national security agency is deleting millions of phone records it collected for what it says were national security reasons six hundred eighty five million call records will be erased these records the nsa collected from telecommunications companies since twenty fifteen the agency says it's due to quote technical irregularities but some speculate it might be because the program failed the data collection practice got some controversial press when former nsa contractor edward snowden leaked documents pointing to widespread government surveillance in two thousand fifteen congress passed a law saying the nsa could no longer collect call records and.
America's poor becoming more destitute under Trump: UN expert
"Uh of regret and disappointment at the american actions and concern that they are not constructive canada the european union and mexico have all vowed to retaliate against those tariffs president trump is meeting with top advisers today as he prepares for his on again meeting with north korea's leader defense secretary james mattis says they won't be talking about us troops on the korean peninsula that issue is not on the table here in singapore on the twelfth nor should it be madison's the summit will still focus on denuclearization president trump's lawyers have been trying to keep special counsel robert muller from forcing him to answer questions on the russian meddling probe the new york times is reporting that mr trump's attorneys say he cannot be compelled to testify arguing and a confidential letter that he could not obstruct justice because he has a thorny over all federal investigations the defense department is about to take over background checks for the federal government security expert daniel gray says the new system would improve the clearance process possibly catching people such as former national security agency contractor edward snowden who leaks classified material you may be able to identify anomalies which in the past may have been overlooked leading you to a snowden or at chelsea manning type of situation manning went to prison for leaking classified documents a united nations expert says the trump administration needs to do more to help the nation's poor cbs's larry miller widespread poverty in the us and it's grown since donald trump became president charges a un human rights investigator philip allston claims the administration's policies such as welfare cuts reduced access to health insurance appeared deliberately aimed at removing a safety net from the poor while tax reform hand the mega rich and big companies financial windfalls the un human rights specialists says nearly forty one million americans live in poverty with the rate of youth poverty highest in the industrialized world larry miller cbs news more mandatory evacuations on hawaii's big island as a killer way of all keno continues to erupt residence in several neighborhoods have been told to get out or risk being trapped by lava.
Make Alexa the default assistant on an Android phone
"If they go life there's no guarantee i eighteen months ago whistle blower edward snowden asked twitter ceo jack dorsey for encrypted diem and dorsey at the time said that's reasonable and something we'll think about so maybe they did it the real question is when will twitter include a stories functionality that's what i wanted that's not the real question it might be it's a different question okay all right fine the dish for the next eight minutes android appears to now be recognizing amazon's vice assistant as a possible google assistant substitute for the same way it does microsoft's cortana so you can set alexa to be your default assist app instead of google assistant you'll need amazon's alexa app then make the switch in these settings apps default apps assist and voice input setting after a long press on your home button your new amazon default assistant will fire up this yeah as a very very very good move in my incident on a folks don't get you can get all the tech headlines each day in about five minutes by subscribing to daily tech headlines available on the amazon echo the google home and the anchor app or a daily tech headlines dot com all right let's talk a little bit more about google we're going to go through the groups of announcements they had today first thing i want to give acknowledgement to is excessive ability google adding more s code to g board for excess ability it comes to g boorda ios and android now granted they could do more but it's nice to see that google and microsoft both continued this trend of of treating accessibility seriously in their keynotes.
"edward snowden" Discussed on The Lawfare Podcast
"Never rebounds especially because you and i think you're a great person to comment on this over your period have in fact sheet uk domestic intelligence palsy so at at least one of your papers of i understand correctly is cited as the blueprint for the investigatory powers act end that of course his fomented quite a bit of discussion around whether or not it would meet let's say that standards for an adequacy decision with the eu you've spoken favourably about the the ipa in so far as it promotes transparency and i wonder if you could talk a little bit about the uk's domestic legislation in so far as it may or may not conflict with eu expectations or other a terrific blank canvas in 2014 vote on on uh uh the exercise of investigate repola's across the board by intelligence agencies by police by others and my conclusion was that the existing goal was not fit for purpose it was a paint a member of the public on a legislature even could not be aware from looking at the low on the published guidance pows were actually being used and would have you think of edward snowden my case it's it's it's not very much i think one has to accept that the consequences of what he revealed out walls to host the realization if you'd like that people have to be a lot more transparent up to me this is a political issue and it was something that that had to be put right said the main characteristics of unusual the festival they do have a little hasnat extensive powers including powers relating to the collection of data similar for example jio section 702 was a power not dissimilar jio section two one five although i think it was it's a much more useful powers it exists in the uk and as it's used in the uk but with those strong powers at comes much more transparency i think probably will leading transparency see any for example commute computer network exploitation or equipment interferences call it.