17 Burst results for "Edward Slinger Lind"

"edward slingerland" Discussed on Sean Carroll's Mindscape: Science, Society, Philosophy, Culture, Arts, and Ideas

Sean Carroll's Mindscape: Science, Society, Philosophy, Culture, Arts, and Ideas

06:27 min | 5 months ago

"edward slingerland" Discussed on Sean Carroll's Mindscape: Science, Society, Philosophy, Culture, Arts, and Ideas

"All we have to do is look inside and be authentic and everything will be all right and that that liberal versus conservative divide or internal versus external. You're trying not trying. Is this common faultline. Uc look at him in chinese. It appears again and again. And i can't help but i'm i know we touched on this already but it seems to me that it'd be very difficult to be a good taoist and a good theoretical physicist. Because it's not just going to happen. You're not just gonna like relax into coming up with the right model of dark matter or something like that you really. It seems to me like you really have to try. 'em missing a nuance there. Yeah yeah but one way to solve that problem or at least contextualized. It i think taoism is best understood as a reaction to confucianism rather than a coherent model in itself. So understood that way you have to get trained in theoretical physics. You have to do a lotta trying but if you wanna have a really genuine new insight into theoretical physics you need to stop trying. Got any need to be more like the dow is so so. That's the way i've always understood them is as a. You can't have just complete not trying. it's not how humans work but if you see. The dow is position as a corrective to the excesses of trying or the excesses of relying on the prefrontal cortex or on tradition or on. Writing or logic is starts to make it starts to be more plausible than it actually Very plausible it mean to be a good theoretical physicist even requires a little bit of Being so into it that ideas come to you know algorithm for finding the ideas right now. It's now mysterious. And maybe that's a good sort of final point to make et as we wrap up here bringing it back to the present day since we've done good all chinese thought in an hour let's do all of modern neuroscience and psychology in in five minutes and you can tell me You know is..

Uc
"edward slingerland" Discussed on Sean Carroll's Mindscape: Science, Society, Philosophy, Culture, Arts, and Ideas

Sean Carroll's Mindscape: Science, Society, Philosophy, Culture, Arts, and Ideas

04:25 min | 5 months ago

"edward slingerland" Discussed on Sean Carroll's Mindscape: Science, Society, Philosophy, Culture, Arts, and Ideas

"Personally very much like that and using terms like were changing a q. I n g opinion Which means motion typically in in classical chinese at this time but in most logic it refers to the categorical essence of something. So the chang of something is the quality that distinguishes that category from other similar categories. Got it okay. The it's the distinctive property that category. And if you don't understand that some passages in the drawings don't make censored sounds like he's a bad philosopher do when you understand is using these terms in a technical sense it makes more sense. Okay let me run by you. One while one more wild generalization that you can already said that you know the there. Is this kind of idea that humanity reached a stage. Where parasites like you and i could be supported by society and so they could have people whose job it was to think these big ideas and write them down and so forth so in some sense. There's a sort of right place right time aspect to these ample right like they could be. I like they can put a ideas out there and then there's fewer gigantic new philosophical schools coming later on because in some sense their reflections or modifications of the previous ones. So here's my crazy idea. You know if. I look at rafael's picture. The school of athens He has plato and he's pointing to the sky is pointing to the earth. And in some sense this is supposed to represent this big dichotomy between thinking and pure rationality plato and the forms and so forth and aristotle more empirical evidence based Experience of the world sort of that was the big division between the schools of thought whereas it seems to me that in the chinese thinking a again. Two hugely over generalize. We have this dichotomy between the confucianists thinking about society and people and our roles and the dallas thinking about nature and ourselves and where we put in. That's the distinction that was that was driven. There is it. Is it completely overreaching to these choices of what distinctions to highlight early on played a huge role in how people thought then for the next two thousand years. That's reasonable another way to put. It is trying versus. Not trying so confronted with the same paradox. They break different ways so the confusion. Say yes paradox but keep trying And it'll sort itself out you'll eventually become like confucius just trust us do this for a long time and you'll you'll become way eventually whereas the dow is much more worried about the problem of of effort contaminating the end state and they really kind of allergic to trying and i argue in my dissertation that this dichotomy between trying and not trying explains a lot of the divisions that happened later in chinese philosophy slash religion. You you constantly. Have you know what's interesting is that sometimes. The debate get solved by doctrinal fiat. So when the neo confusions come in. This is in the twelfth century. Ad they say mentioned his right..

school of athens rafael dallas confusion
"edward slingerland" Discussed on Sean Carroll's Mindscape: Science, Society, Philosophy, Culture, Arts, and Ideas

Sean Carroll's Mindscape: Science, Society, Philosophy, Culture, Arts, and Ideas

02:33 min | 5 months ago

"edward slingerland" Discussed on Sean Carroll's Mindscape: Science, Society, Philosophy, Culture, Arts, and Ideas

"And which is the dream in which is reality. he's trying. I think the purpose of that story is. He's trying to shake up our our confidence that we know. What's going on that The in this particular case. I think what he's he's targeting his fear of death so right now we're living we think won't be die. It's going to be horrible. But how do we know. We don't know what's going to happen So he's he's he wants cultivate Epidemically kind of humbleness. And that's he's using that. Skeptical argument is a way to get us to think of. Maybe we don't really know what the right way to be is it Contrast with descartes descartes does skeptical exercise and says now i will rebuild everything -pletely firm basis drunk. They serve deal with it. Who knows this is how the world is. We don't know demons willing devon's all the way down right. We just don't know but it's a i think it's a jong uses metaphysics seizes logic. Sometimes but in a way that deconstructs lodge at he probably was trained as a login. So actually it didn't mention another school of early chinese thought which were the legit so these people thought you could capture the structure of reality in words so know. Words categories that map onto distinct groups of objects in the world. And then you could. If you could come up with a completely logical inaccurate way of constructing sentences with these terms you could have an abstract account of reality and abstract account it to act in the right way. The lowest going on in china. Yeah so they were logical positivist long before they logical positivist and they never took off. So it's interesting. That jong was probably trained is one of these people. Because he uses is not always picked up by translators but he's often using terms in a technical logical sense in the standard way. The words used So he seems to have been trained in this approach in that abandoned and thought that it wasn't the way to live properly and when you say technological sends mean not technological technical commerce logical sense. Is that what we think of as you know. Syllogisms deductions inductive kind of reasoning..

jong china
"edward slingerland" Discussed on Sean Carroll's Mindscape: Science, Society, Philosophy, Culture, Arts, and Ideas

Sean Carroll's Mindscape: Science, Society, Philosophy, Culture, Arts, and Ideas

04:36 min | 5 months ago

"edward slingerland" Discussed on Sean Carroll's Mindscape: Science, Society, Philosophy, Culture, Arts, and Ideas

"And if you said something. The catholic church didn't likes you. Just go to next door to the protestant rulers place in you. Hang up there So there is ability and you know arguably. This was the result of geographical fragmentation. The fact that europe is just chopped up. You know it's got the mediterranean and the south it's Broken up mountains northern china's so the the classic cradle of chinese civilization yellow river ballet Is organized around this river kind of is more like egypt if you wanna take of it that way so you get large scale. Agriculture happening on a massive scale very early Whereas if you look at greece so david keatley. Who's a famous. He's passed away Ago scholar of early china contrasted greece in china and he argued One of the differences is this focus on the individual versus group. So you look at greek. You look at greek pottery. It's portrayals of heroes so this piece of pottery has achilles is recognizably killings. And he's doing this famous thing that achilles did Whereas china and it's anonymous figures performing music or doing ritual as a group scene and he traces back to the fact that greece greece's sucks agriculture. You can't get any kind of decent large-scale agriculture off. The ground so is is fisher. People fishing or hurting goats growing small patches vegetables. It's broken up their trading. Their traveling around the more individualistic china at a very early stage has rice agriculture and in the in the north where. They're not growing rice. They it's very dry and so they're having to irrigate so even if they're not growing a labor intensive crop like right so races super labour-intensive yet flood the fields. And you need really elaborate group cooperation to do that. And even in the north because of the nature of the climate they needed a large scale. Water water control irrigation. Flood control things like that. And so the argument is the chinese state got centralized very early on and economically and agriculturally got organized around a group activities very early on that tended to favor the group of individuals and this may have had something to do with why. There's relatively more individualism in the west but even in china there's a really interesting science article from say like eight years ago Tell him the lead author where he looked at rice versus grain county producing counties in china and looking at them like they're close together so he's controlling for everything except for the style of agriculture that they have these holistic versus analytic thinking tasks that psychologists use people from rice. Growing regions are much more holistic in front. Is the smaller scale week. Growing regions are more analytic. So even within these societies style of life is slightly different. You probably think about the individuals relationship to the group slightly differently it is. I mean it's a combination of irresistible set of ideas and you have to resist pushing them too far. We had joe henry on the show. He talked about the weirdness of the west and so forth. And i love it and that. But you know it's just it's it's too good in some sense to be completely drew so understanding limitations of this These connections is just as important and so in that vein there are. Examples of ancient chinese thinkers doing what we might think of as metaphysics or Abstract thinking and maybe you can tell the audience who doesn't know jones's fav- Famous butterfly dream story which has to do right. Mind body problem yeah. I think it's more about skepticism. Okay so it's you know. he says. I had a dream that i was a butterfly. I was flying around. I was happy and it was wonderful. And then i woke up and i thought oh i just trump. That was a butterfly. But how do. I know that i've not actually really that butterfly and i'm just now dreaming that i'm wrong..

china greece david keatley catholic church grain county mediterranean egypt europe fisher joe henry jones
"edward slingerland" Discussed on Sean Carroll's Mindscape: Science, Society, Philosophy, Culture, Arts, and Ideas

Sean Carroll's Mindscape: Science, Society, Philosophy, Culture, Arts, and Ideas

02:12 min | 5 months ago

"edward slingerland" Discussed on Sean Carroll's Mindscape: Science, Society, Philosophy, Culture, Arts, and Ideas

"There there is a sense in which chinese philosophy valued know-how and ability to live well and they prize that over abstract accounts of the world. Yeah i mean that's very good. I'm glad you said that. Because that is the impression i got so it's not complete and as you say it's probably matters of degree rather than completely western thinkers right. Who were i mean. Aristotle was about know how right he was training to be a virtuous person and a for nieces. Practical reason can't be codified. You just have it or you don't so it is. It's a classic kind of know. How with all those warnings place if i were to take this distinction and run with yet further than i should I mean i can't help but come at this from the point of view of a theoretical physicist. Who does all of those things you said the greeks wanted us to do inventing abstract stations of the world. Is it possible that that sort of greek predilection paved the way for An abstract scientific view of the world and helped science catch on in that way. But maybe at the same time it is not as good at living as human beings in the world Along the way. Yeah that's possible. There's been a loads of books over the decades on this right the greek origins of science you know for a long time it was a big cottage industry trying to explain why science didn't arise in china because they were technologically way or advanced in the west for a long time To what was going wrong. What was going wrong there assuming that science was overeating for human as race So yeah there's something to that There's something to the valuing of abstract thought. I think individualism also plays a role so I think a lot of just historical accidents are playing an important role. So when science get started in europe europe's fragmented twain all these different states different rulers..

china europe
"edward slingerland" Discussed on Sean Carroll's Mindscape: Science, Society, Philosophy, Culture, Arts, and Ideas

Sean Carroll's Mindscape: Science, Society, Philosophy, Culture, Arts, and Ideas

05:27 min | 5 months ago

"edward slingerland" Discussed on Sean Carroll's Mindscape: Science, Society, Philosophy, Culture, Arts, and Ideas

"Created by humans for humans to in his virtual ethicists. But his his just meta justification for the confusion. Way kinda utilitarian. He's like we have with state of nature we gotta figure out how to make it work confucianism does that the best in the most efficient way so he arguably is the closest to an atheist. Dick floss for we have in the warring states interesting. Okay yeah. I think that that is a fact that they used to know and then forgot. I think might even mentioned it in my book. The big picture. Now that you're saying all those words is sort of coming back to 'cause. I was looking into the history of naturalism. There are various yemen's when it of came and then got crushed a little bit but yeah he never. It never took off. But it's interesting because he's still advocates for religious practice. Because he's got he's got this very kaya me in view of how of the function of ritual so he is a famous passage where he says We do the rain prayer. And what happens. It's gonna rain or it's not gonna rain. Doing the rain doesn't affect the rain at all So should we get rid of the rain prayer absolutely not. We should keep doing very so. Why do we do it. Because it brings people together Everyone's sits in their hierarchical place in so they get a visual representation of where they set in social hierarchy. They reaffirm their commitment to the ruler into the way so he's got this functional story about religious ritual where he wants he wants people to keep doing it but he says the the common person is gonna continue to think that we're doing it to make it rain the gentleman. His peers is educated. Peers know that we're it's gonna rain or rain there's no has no efficacy except social. We're doing it for these social reasons. He's got this really interesting functional role that but also makes me think that we have not made any progress in the last twenty five hundred years into already said that something just become clear in many of the examples given is a stylistic difference maybe i'm perceiving correctly or incorrectly between the chinese and the greeks at in this era namely like they were the chinese. Well so let me let me back up to mention The only one of these texts. I've actually been exposed. To directly is the zhang's a which is through the cartoon book that he wrote the preface. Aren't you mentioned that because everyone should read these books. Yeah that's a great that cartoons great and visit the and there's a series of them right. Yeah yeah he did all the classics in cartoon form. That is what. I lived in taiwan. I read these chinese. And i remember thinking oh when i get back to the states. I want to translate. These and brian brewer..

Dick floss confusion taiwan brian brewer
"edward slingerland" Discussed on Sean Carroll's Mindscape: Science, Society, Philosophy, Culture, Arts, and Ideas

Sean Carroll's Mindscape: Science, Society, Philosophy, Culture, Arts, and Ideas

03:05 min | 5 months ago

"edward slingerland" Discussed on Sean Carroll's Mindscape: Science, Society, Philosophy, Culture, Arts, and Ideas

"Terms and conditions apply. He said something very briefly. There that is worth teasing out when taoism turned more into a religion My impression is again. Correct me if i'm wrong is that he's really were philosophical schools. To start in the similar way as plato an aristotle would have been played. Aristotle didn't turn into religions as far as i know in some sense confucianism taoism did in buddhism. Of course. yeah. I'm a little worried i'd maybe speaking loosely. When i said that. I really should've said turn into a popular religious practice I think that the these early schools of thought are religious. I think that all premodern philosophy is religious felix. Plato or aristotle. They have religious world views and they're formulating their ethics in terms of these religious world views. I think this distinction between philosophy and religion is a product of the enlightenment. It's a relatively recent development incident enlightenment conceit that we could talk about values in a way that's completely divorced from onta logical or metaphysical commitments. Yeah and so. I'm a little leery of talking about philosophy versus religion in that sense. But it's definitely the case that these were these were very philosophically oriented religious movements and some of them taoism became these more technical practices that were aimed at things. Like immortality personal immortality and things like that are controlling the world in various ways. Will i guess to me that does sound like a question that it is legitimate to ask. Even if the distinction between philosophy and religion was not so much of a distinction back in the day What was their metaphysics analogy. Where a To what extent were they naturalist. Versus theorist i mean they talk about heaven and god all the time. But it's never clear whether it's just part of a story in a metaphor or whether it's you know more or less As real as a monotheistic western would be i think that confucius the historical confucius when he talks about heaven. It's pretty full blooded anthropomorphic. Being heaven gets angry heaven can abandon him. He actually complains at one point because heaven seems to have abandoned him. Could i think it's a pretty full-blooded anthropomorphic being when you get to. The end of the worrying states in thicker like tongs of heaven becomes just this kind of force. It doesn't really have a personality anymore. And then when you get to shinzo shinzo i think is at least that i know of. He's the first the first atheistic thinker and you could argue that his system is maybe philosophical not religious in the sense that he's not relying on any kind of metaphysical justification for he really thinks that. the confucian.

onta Plato felix shinzo shinzo
"edward slingerland" Discussed on Sean Carroll's Mindscape: Science, Society, Philosophy, Culture, Arts, and Ideas

Sean Carroll's Mindscape: Science, Society, Philosophy, Culture, Arts, and Ideas

04:17 min | 5 months ago

"edward slingerland" Discussed on Sean Carroll's Mindscape: Science, Society, Philosophy, Culture, Arts, and Ideas

"Is it possible to explain it. Even it can't be said. Yeah that's i mean that's the dow dj right so they're suspicious of language. They're worried about trying to get trapped in any kind of linguistic formulation. The concept itself is pretty simple. It literally means way like a road original meaning of it and it continues in classical wearing states. Classical chinese. it's still used in that literal sense but it comes to mean probably confuse. The analytics is the first time is used in this philosophical metaphysical sense It's the right way to do something and becomes the analytics almost like a metaphysical reality like the way the universe is and so this is the sense of sometimes. Heaven in the way are used interchangeably. Or they're used. As part of a compound. Ten dow the way of heaven so That's the basic meaning of way. It's a it's a it could mean can also teaching so like confucius will talk about You know my way being manifested in the world by that. He means his teaching. Okay and to the western year once again you know. I'm sort of being judgy here of brilliant people from thousands of years ago. But when i read about taoism you know there's some wisdom there clearly is very very interesting but part of me wants to say like it is just hippie back to nature stuff like what about making the world a better place. What about you know struggling against things that are bad in the world like where does that come in is that is that a valid reaction to have or might just missing something deeper in what. There's a total way ballot. Reaction to have the i think the central criticism of say he's got no story about social justice or how you help the world in his defense so if i were to defend him he would say you wanna do you wanna make the world a better place you you know support oxfam and you join this political party..

oxfam
"edward slingerland" Discussed on Sean Carroll's Mindscape: Science, Society, Philosophy, Culture, Arts, and Ideas

Sean Carroll's Mindscape: Science, Society, Philosophy, Culture, Arts, and Ideas

05:37 min | 5 months ago

"edward slingerland" Discussed on Sean Carroll's Mindscape: Science, Society, Philosophy, Culture, Arts, and Ideas

"Your own is is delusional. The one of the things. That is appealing about descartes's project. Even if you don't agree with his specific steps along the way is that he's really looking for certainty right. You know abc metaphysical grounding that. You can't argue against once. You appreciate it is it. Is there some sense in which either confucianism or chinese philosophy. More generally is a bit more foul ballistic and a bit more. You know We're working towards something rather than here's the once and for all of final foundation. Yeah that's an interesting way to put it. I hadn't thought of it. That way confucius thinks that the the western joe culture is perfectly good and captures everything all the truth of the world so in a way. Okay he thinks there was a period of time when people had figured everything out and there are suggestions that may have even been revealed by heaven so it was kind of divine revelation of the system. shinzo is morey. Call him more of a foul blest. I would think in that. He thinks that humans invented the confucian away. Okay and they did it over time. they basically. There was a series of these kinds of cultural geniuses. Who cobbled together. The confusion way for functional purposes because it helped us live in large scale societies. And be harmonious. And he's got an interesting Description of the state of nature. That looks a lot like hops. Where he's says you know. Human desires or limitless resources are limited. And so that's a recipe for disaster. To how do we deal with that. We've got to learn how to restrain desires reshape. Them and the confucian ways the perfect way to that so he thinks it's actually kind of artifact that was constructed by people over a period of time. He thinks it perfect. It works perfectly. So he's also like yeah. The confusion is the only way to be but in his model. There's some openness to change right so if the environment change conditions changed new sage kings arise who had innovate in kind of fix confucian way. So fit the news for lulu. Lose viewer giving now..

shinzo abc morey confusion lulu
"edward slingerland" Discussed on Sean Carroll's Mindscape: Science, Society, Philosophy, Culture, Arts, and Ideas

Sean Carroll's Mindscape: Science, Society, Philosophy, Culture, Arts, and Ideas

05:22 min | 5 months ago

"edward slingerland" Discussed on Sean Carroll's Mindscape: Science, Society, Philosophy, Culture, Arts, and Ideas

"Gaspar's who very impressed by this came up with this idea of the axial age. It was around this time. That i mean he had a very kind of hey gayle metaphysical story about this. It's like when the human geist the human spirit became self conscious. Finally we were kind of grinding along as animals than we kind of woke up so he his his metaphysical stories probably false. But there is something to this idea of an axial age. And i think it probably has to do with just Kotido agriculture's get started in spreads round the world Not exactly at the same time but really starts ramp up around the same time and once you get enough wealth and complexity you start to have people whose jobs can be like ours to sit around and thank you. Yeah and so. I think it's really just a function of around the same time. You got enough excess wealth that it could support parasites like us. New are actually doing useful productive worth. But we're thinking about stuff and right in writing stuff down right right. Yeah exactly so. Let me just focus in our audience and have a clear picture of possible. What is going on with the different schools so confucianism i think. Kind of make sense to the western mind. Even if not a lot of westerners become confucianists in their old age but the idea that there are rituals and ceremonies and our social role is Very important and Learning is important and things like that. That's this is. Virtue is a way of acting in the world with other people right. I mean these are all. There's appropriate social roles. These are all sort of confucian ideas. Yeah yeah yeah. But but taken quite strongly so At least for confucius you you can't think without culture so he really thinks culture is forming the basis of your thought. Okay i find my students really struggle with sometimes because they tend to think that they think of things on their own like had these great ideas it is where i think confucianism corrective to some kind of modern western views of the self..

Kotido Gaspar gayle
"edward slingerland" Discussed on Sean Carroll's Mindscape: Science, Society, Philosophy, Culture, Arts, and Ideas

Sean Carroll's Mindscape: Science, Society, Philosophy, Culture, Arts, and Ideas

05:28 min | 5 months ago

"edward slingerland" Discussed on Sean Carroll's Mindscape: Science, Society, Philosophy, Culture, Arts, and Ideas

"Figure and he studied ritual with confucius then realize it was wrong and decided to go off and write this book or decided to go off and be just be in touch with the dow and then the historic the traditional story is he was going to india. He decided to leave china because china is so messed up and on on way out of border officials said to him. I won't let you leave until you write down your teachings and so this is why we have the book because you know allowances very reluctant to use words. But he was forced to this official. And that's why we have records rates and then offer. The story goes on that he went to. India became the buddha good and that's why when buddhism came into china around the beginning of the common era. It looked a lot like taoism and the chinese explanation was well of course because we embedded in india. So yeah so. That's certainly not true. I think the other jing book the lots of book was probably put together by a community of these primitive. This we have. We have hints of them in the end of the analytics the writings of the teachings of confucius we have is interesting encounters at the end of the analytics where confucius's running into these people who are living primitive lifestyles and actually absurdly primitive lifestyles. Like they're not using technologies that exist there self-consciously like one example is the someone's pulling plough by themselves and they had oxygen. Yeah the normal farmer easing and then when confucius stops and questions them they quote from the roads this classical poetry and i know who confucius is so. These are clearly normal farmers their their educated elites who have dropped out and gone back to the countryside and withdrawn from society pretty sure that confucius existed as a person and wrote the things that we think he wrote his book so the analytics that is the record of his teachings is not written by him..

china india jing
"edward slingerland" Discussed on Sean Carroll's Mindscape: Science, Society, Philosophy, Culture, Arts, and Ideas

Sean Carroll's Mindscape: Science, Society, Philosophy, Culture, Arts, and Ideas

05:43 min | 5 months ago

"edward slingerland" Discussed on Sean Carroll's Mindscape: Science, Society, Philosophy, Culture, Arts, and Ideas

"Away that you don't have to think about you can now run on autopilot And you'll be you'll do everything the right way So that's roughly the kind of classical confucian position. There's a confucian named manches who tries to. So let me tell you about the dow as i and there so in Split the difference so the dow is on the other hand. Say if you wanna be. Spontaneous hand. Natural cultures deadly and training is deadly. So you need to so the first of these figures loud to thinks that the reason everyone agrees that. Everything's sucks right now. They're in the warring states. Everyone's fighting with each other really boring around right or standard thing were. The current world is terrible right They all think we can get back to some golden age that used to exist for loud so we do that by getting rid of culture so he thinks that learning and trying are the enemy. And that if you become a confucian and you train in the rituals and learn. The classics are just going to become hypocrite. You'll be able to go through the motions but you'll You won't be genuinely virtuous and so i call him. He's a primitive as he wants us to get back to the supposedly natural lifestyle living in small-scale communities low tech in the trade book i described them as the warring states. Hippies basically it's a lot like those counter culture movements ask. Let's get back to nature. Get rid of technology warfares baz all caused by consumerism and greed Very similar insights in the in the dow surging then the second of the so-called dallas. They weren't a self recognized school but to helpful label is this guy and he similar. He thinks loud so that trying bad training culture can mess you up but he assumes this is all already happened to us and what we have to do is learn how to not. He thinks that escaping to a primitive utopia is an example of. Try that.

dallas
"edward slingerland" Discussed on Sean Carroll's Mindscape: Science, Society, Philosophy, Culture, Arts, and Ideas

Sean Carroll's Mindscape: Science, Society, Philosophy, Culture, Arts, and Ideas

04:32 min | 5 months ago

"edward slingerland" Discussed on Sean Carroll's Mindscape: Science, Society, Philosophy, Culture, Arts, and Ideas

"Silly version of this that might resonate with some listeners. Or even you which is the progressive rock version of this bill through bird. Who's a famous drummer for. Yes one of the great progressive rock groups and eventually quit and joined king crimson instead and the reason why he gave was literally that when he was in. Yes like creating. He's having a good time but it was just everything was planned. And they would hyper figure out what note should be what key during what part of the solo and right. He told what to do and he said he went to king crimson. And just you play. You're supposed to know what to play their instructions given and that's very much like this sort of the progressive. Rock musicians were classically trained. It's very much the classical music music versus jazz music of ethos in some sense right right but the jazz i talk about jazz in china to try. You are just kind of playing what you wanna play. But if you're not trained if you're not trained that thing you're gonna play a stupid. It's going to sound terrible. So the only way you can solo at my a former brother-in-law's a jazz pianist and row. Okay and he you know. He plays very experimental jazz. And it's all about soloing improv. But he practices like several hours day. You know and his ability to improv is completely dependent on his classical training and and all of the work. He's put do it. So it's jazz values that spontaneity but it's because in some ways it's hiding all work that went into getting there i that is an issue that came up with me whenever i sort of Come into contact with taoism in particular but maybe also other kinds of chinese lawsuits. I want to dig into that. But but we've already talked about several schools of thought it cetera. I mean let's let's give the roadmap to our listeners like if is it okay to think of confucianism taoism as the two poles of this or..

king crimson china
"edward slingerland" Discussed on Sean Carroll's Mindscape: Science, Society, Philosophy, Culture, Arts, and Ideas

Sean Carroll's Mindscape: Science, Society, Philosophy, Culture, Arts, and Ideas

05:46 min | 5 months ago

"edward slingerland" Discussed on Sean Carroll's Mindscape: Science, Society, Philosophy, Culture, Arts, and Ideas

"That roy chinese thought so the the central they face attention. They had this. They want you to get into a state of spontaneity. They want you to be relaxed into try. But how do you consciously try to not try. Yeah how can you consciously try to be spontaneous when you know that. That's the key to success so you're in a situation where you know you have to relax. And how do you try to do that. And so i- argued in my dissertation and then later my first academic book on this topic that i call this the paradox of way. How do you try not to try. It's a direct paradox. you can't hit is a genuine paradox. you can't solve it later on. When i wrote a trade book about this zone. My first trade books called try not to try. I did i point out. How just cognitively. It's a paradox. Because you're you're activating the part of your brain that you're trying to shut down when you're trying not to try kids along the paradox. Dan wagner the late. Dan wagner talked about with the. Don't think of the white bear. Say that to you you think. Activating concept have to share this wonderful story. You told them your ted talk about mind ball. Oh yes of mine. Yeah so this is a. I love this game because it it takes that tension and boils down to just the the smallest space possible so mind ball is as you two ends of a table. You've got this metal ball between you and the goal is to push the metal ball to the other end of the table and it falls in some hoan. Let it does that you win. But of course the trick is you're pushing with your mind and you're hooked up to the way works. You're hooked up to he g martyr and it's measuring alpha and theta waves. So that's the signature. Your brain kicks off when you're relaxed. When you're you're not trying and the more the way the game is set up the more alpha and theta waves you produce the more force you exert on the ball off so the way to win at mine ball as to not try to win. That's genius and it's it's genius. It's a per- perfect microcosm of this tension. Right and the the first time i played it. I was oh dude. I'm a professor chinese loss of the. Because i played against the neuroscientists who ran the exhibit. When she kicked my ass is so good at it. It's funny because i started out. I had my eyes closed. And i can hear you hear the ball moving around so you know something's happening and i opened my eyes and i was winning so the ball was mostly down to the other end of the table and i thought oh i'm winning. I am pretty good at this. As soon as i thought that has started rolling back toward me and then had served panicking way way and it just didn't it didn't work. And she said she developed tricks to win at this game so she would just as soon as the game started she would think about her favorite vacation on this beach and remembering what it was like a line in the sand but this is a great. You know what i argue in the trade book actually is. This is a attention we face in our lives. All the time where you're on our first date and you know that to make a good impression you should be charming and relaxed and you feel confident But how you feeling that. Way yeah And then professional athletes and performers. No that they perform at their best when they're relaxed in the zone and they live in constant fear of choking ride live in constant fear of that feeling. I had when the ball started rolling back toward me and i was like oh not a new way..

Dan wagner roy ted
"edward slingerland" Discussed on Sean Carroll's Mindscape: Science, Society, Philosophy, Culture, Arts, and Ideas

Sean Carroll's Mindscape: Science, Society, Philosophy, Culture, Arts, and Ideas

04:29 min | 5 months ago

"edward slingerland" Discussed on Sean Carroll's Mindscape: Science, Society, Philosophy, Culture, Arts, and Ideas

"Welcome to the landscape podcast. Thanks for having me now. I have to start by apologizing for not being the world's podcast host. You have a new book out called drunk about alcohol and its historical cultural history and things like that so the typical thing would be for me to invite you on the podcast to talk about that yet. I'm not doing that because for a while now. I really wanted to talk more about ancient chinese philosophy because we already had shoddy bartsch on the show talking about how chinese people read ancient greek philosophy plato aristotle and so forth but we haven't really talked about the chinese voss. Yeah i know. You're an expert in that but i thought that just to start. I mean i wanna know how it all fits together. You've written a book about alcohol. You've written scholarly work. About ancient chinese philosophy. You also have a web project on comparative religions. And you've been involved in modern psychology and neuroscience and so forth. Do you think that all of this works sort of falls under umbrella theme or is it just what you happen to think is interesting at the time it all fits together if you squint. Look at it from far enough away so there. There's a strange connection between my early. Chinese philosophy work and the latest book on alcohol so one of the themes that i'm interested in early. China is idea way or effortless action. I argue this is going way back to my dissertation argued that if you look at these other otherwise disparate appearing confucian taoist in early china. What they all have in common is they wanna get you into the spiritual state. That's called way which literally means doing or no trying. No striving that. I translated as effortless action. It's a state. Where you you lose a sense of yourself as an agent. You lose a sense of time slot being in the zone and i talk about parallels with chicks march chicks may is idea flow dissimilar from flow..

bartsch china
"edward slingerland" Discussed on Sean Carroll's Mindscape: Science, Society, Philosophy, Culture, Arts, and Ideas

Sean Carroll's Mindscape: Science, Society, Philosophy, Culture, Arts, and Ideas

03:59 min | 5 months ago

"edward slingerland" Discussed on Sean Carroll's Mindscape: Science, Society, Philosophy, Culture, Arts, and Ideas

"Sean carroll many times here on mindscape we've had issues dealt with philosophy right either explicitly about philosophy or talking about biology or physics or politics in a way that involved philosophy that almost always the kinds of lafi that we talked about were based on the western tradition of philosophy. Tradition goes back to the ancient greek socrates. Plato aristotle people like that we all know that's not the only tradition out. There is the tradition that i know the most about for better for worse. So it's harder for me to lead an intelligent conversation about other areas but for a long time. I thought that we should have a good conversation about eastern philosophy chinese philosophy in particular. There was a very very active set of schools of philosophy in ancient china about the same time as aristotle and his friends were inventing greek philosophy. The warring states period in particular was a period where you were inventing new ideas in confucianism taoism and other kinds of traditions. So obviously these are huge topics much too much to talk about in one podcast in any comprehensive way. But we're going to try to do it anyway. Today's guest is edward slinger lind who was a distinguished university scholar and professor of philosophy at the university of british columbia. So he's an expert in ancient chinese philosophy. He's translated confucius the whole bit. But one of the reasons why he's interesting to talk to is because he doesn't simply talk about that ancient philosophy for its own sake. He relates it to modern ideas. He tries to make the point that it is still a vibrant kind of set of ideas that relates an interesting ways to our current predicament. As human beings our current knowledge as scientists learning more about how we think how we act in the world in fact his most recent book is called drunk as in. You've had a lot to drink. You are now drunk. The subtitle is how we sipped danced and stumbled our way to civilization. So as i asked him. I maybe i shouldn't give it away. No i probably will as asked me the podcast. What does that have to do with ancient chinese philosophy..

lafi Sean carroll edward slinger lind university of british columbia china
"edward slingerland" Discussed on Sean Carroll's Mindscape: Science, Society, Philosophy, Culture, Arts, and Ideas

Sean Carroll's Mindscape: Science, Society, Philosophy, Culture, Arts, and Ideas

01:49 min | 5 months ago

"edward slingerland" Discussed on Sean Carroll's Mindscape: Science, Society, Philosophy, Culture, Arts, and Ideas

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