20 Episode results for "Editorial Director"
Finding Your Voice: Why Confidence Is Key to Persuasion
"I'm Steve editorial director for knowledge a warden when we listen to someone trying to persuade us about something we may think that we are reacting to their message this podcast is brought to you by Knowledge Award conversation from what someone might say to one another so you can think about pitch how high pitched or low pitch someone is talking I can talk a very high pitch and I can talk at a very low oh pitch I can talk at a high a faster rate I can speak very quickly or I can speak more slowly I can talk at a high volume I can talk at a lower volume respond very quickly to what you might say and all of those are examples of para linguistic features examples of ways that people might modulate their voice crossing textual data to understand how it impacts behavior things like looking at the words used in customer service calls and how they impact satisfaction or predicting excessive songs reactions and I think this is something many of us or at least a little bit familiar with but when we try to push someone to do something ask them to do something persuade them to do something they often wait us were often not just listen to them thinking about all the reasons that they're wrong why they're saying isn't exactly true how it could be differently why we shouldn't listen to what the topic titled how the Voice Persuades and he's joining us today to talk about it thanks very much for joining us John Thanks for having me what was the inspiration for this research they talk in addition to the words they use affect what other people do affect whether other people lesson and recently I've been fortunate to a lot of work on text analysis so sort of when talking to one another in this case we found that when people are trying to persuade they tend to use a number of different features they increase their pitch they vary that pitch more they speak fast to persuade us we see an ad we walk out of the room but it's not only that we also counter argue against those messages so if we watch an ad or if we listen to someone trying to impress even enter turn time when you ask me a question for example I can take a long time to respond waiting pause or a couple of seconds to respond or don't do it we want they often do the opposite they often push back a good way to think about is almost like an anti persuasion radar detects incoming projectiles sort of shoots up saying and so for all those reasons it's really hard to persuade someone to do something when they know we're trying to persuade them they're actually less likely to listen to what we might want to say now almost everyone has someone they wanna persuade if you think about sales people they want to persuade the customer the client you WanNa think about marketers they want to persuade the consumer you think about often quite difficult as we'll talk about you know often we try to persuade others they're less likely to do we suggest and so we wondered well how might the voice that someone uses the weight things to knock them down and so when people hear someone trying to persuade them they push back they react against the message you know in some cases we delete an incoming e mail if we know it's true effective it is what is pass research research said about why it is that sometimes these attempts to persuade backfire there's a concept in behavioral science called tend to use when they are trying to persuade others yeah so I I think it's important to talk about what we mean by para linguistic cues and that is all the vocal features from oster in addition to raising their volume in varying their volume so they try a number of things when they try to persuade not all of them are actually effective but when we're trying to persuade we going to begin to say well what about pera language what about vocal features and how might those aspects impact persuasion as you noted sometimes the more you try to persuade someone to less so your research focuses on para linguistic cues are how we say things as opposed to sort of the words that were speaking so what are some of the different types of vocal cues that people a you've found in terms of which types of vocal cues were actually the most effective yeah so we found a couple of things so first of all we did a variety of experiments in and do a lot of things even without realizing it that might shift the way our voice sounds while you studied this over the course of four experiments what would you say we asked them to persuade them to do one task rather than than another in all these cases we asked him in addition to changing what they might say some participants also changed the world in different contexts so we asked people to try to persuade someone else to buy television for example like they might in an online review we asked people dissuade others to do a task just used their regular voice and what we found is that increasing and varying volume so talking more loudly but also varying that volume during these attempts leaders want employees persuade employees managers I want to persuade their boss you know lots of people from politicians folks in business one to persuade others but persuasions they said it some participants tried really hard to persuade others not through the exact words but through what they said and and how they said it and others didn't try so hard to persuade others the voice impacts behavior you might expect hey you know someone changes their voice I'm not aware that that's happening and so it's a subtle non conscious influence while I'm aware of what they're saying someone's had an effect but what was interesting is it wasn't necessarily the reason one might think so one reason that changing voice might have an effect is people don't realize movies based on their lyrics or their scripts but why we looked at the language itself the words themselves we we paid less attention to how those words were used and so in this swayed through our voice not just what we say but even using vocal features someone can tell that we're trying to do it so it wasn't just that it went undetected but what happened is it made the communicators has you should buy this TV it's really great I go oh why are they saying that they're trying to persuade me Their vocal features are harder to detect. It's almost like that radar we talked about that more confident when people were trying to persuade others they modulated their voice by changing the volume and changing the variation in their volume in a way that made them sound more confident I persuaded radar doesn't detect incoming persuasion attempt and so it's not as not as impacted but it's actually not that people detected that someone else is trying to persuade them when we when we because they seem more confident in what they were saying that confidence lead to lead to greater persuasion so it's not so much that people don't realize that we're trying to persuade them it's they might realize is it but we sound more confident in some cases when we're trying to persuade when we use the right vocal features and because we sound more more confident more impactful you noted that this research applied those who are interested in your research I mean I think the first thing to think about is we often think about what we say we pay a lot less attention to how we say it whether is to lots of different types of arenas and for example I manage politics would be another one what would you say the key takeaways are for Mr Client who haven't spent a lot of time on the words where saying and even sometimes think about speaking slowly and standing up straight we think a lot less about the vocal features WanNa an unconscious thing that we engage in and it's an important area to consider and in particular there's a lot of research not even ours but outside of this research showing the power of okay and so we think we can pitch things better that way but first of all it's easier to ignore those pitches and second of all other research shows that the voices really humanizing of voice just in general I think in today's Day and age you know we're so used to shooting off an email or texting someone or doing something else because it's easier we don't WanNa take the time and you know set up a phone call word if oh you know what are they gonna say and how are we going to react and so in these more asynchronous methods written communication we have more time to construct refine what to say it really brings out the people behind what is being said and in a variety of domains can have a bigger impact and so there's really a power of voice that we often don't think for very much about and so while in some cases it's more effort full dot call someone to get together in person to actually use our voice beyond just the words we say we should think more about communication modalities when we're communicating and think about which ones are going to be most effective for the impact that we're trying to have so we're in a working environment should this or a politician trying to convince a large audience whether we're a leader trying to convince an organization where a doctor Kinda convince a patient or whether we're a marketer or a sales person China commits custom early misinterpreted right so we think we're being very clear and someone on the other end thinks were screaming at them for example and so it's easy to misinterpret just words people is not a real person when they're just words in front of us whereas when we hear their voice we really get that richness that sense of who they are as an individual they have a sense of mind without some of the vocal cues that come along with them but in addition to misinterpretation I think the voice just has a powerful humanizing effect it's much easier to see pitch in person or over the phone rather than just over e mail we should think about situations where that humanizing power voices useful whether persuading power voices useful we may treat them more fairly and we may react better to them because because we hear that voice and so not only should we walk down the hall to talk to a colleague but you know we think about maybe WanNa do that version should I pause more or less maybe pausing as a customer service agent gives time for the customer to respond Yes yes Oh yes I agree with what you're saying and persuade us to walk down the hall to someone as opposed to send them an email which you say certainly you know there's a lot of research came out you know an email I came out showing the emails taking next yeah this is my first foray into into this space my colleague Alex Van Zandt who's the first author on this paper knows a lot about voice but you know what else were saying well what about the words agencies might make customers more satisfied but also how they say those words for example think about pauses were having signal as well what what I find particularly interesting about this area as a as a scientist but also someone who teaches in a business school we often don't think about the words that we put out there in the world but words are really powerful you know we tell our kids they're certain magic words they'd have more impact than others but words to a couple of things one they reflect something fired or leave on their own based on the words they use in their email whether those words more similar more different to the language of the company tends to use can give a signal of who they are and impact that audience is a is a really powerful opportunity and so we're both studying the words themselves as well as how those words are used for
Introducing Focus Culture
"Hi, I'm Forrest Bryant. And I'm the editorial director at Evernote. I'd like to thank you for listening to taking note over the past two years, and I'm excited to tell you about what's next over the past several months, we've been pretty busy around here refocused our mission, the Evernote brand, and we are also refocusing the way we share notes point of view through online content like this podcast. So the bad news is that taking note is officially at an end. The good news is that there's a new and dare I say more focused podcast that replaces it, and it's available right now, we call it, focus culture. And it's where organization passion and creative thinking meet you see we believe that when people find their focus. They can do remarkable things. Whether that's elevating their work, transforming their lives or even changing the world in focus culture will bring you conversations with people who are focused on positive change from entrepreneurs and productivity experts to artists. Scientists ended. Caters? We'll meet them in their domain and an hours will show you the world through their ice and will uncover the approaches and strategies that make them successful. For our first episode. I talked with jeans clear author of the bestselling book, atomic habits, an easy and proven way to build. Good habits and break bad ones. Here's a sample. Just looking to help you understand what habit is also tried to help you understand what to do to actually build a good habit or break about it needs to be very actionable. And so I think these four steps can give us a very actionable framework to us. So the first step is the Q, and there's some kind of cue that props each habit that could be something like you're felling buzzing in your pocket that's cue case. It's related to like touch could be like seeing that Donut on the counter in that case it's visual, Hugh, but it can be any of the senses. But it's something catches your attention in prompts, the habit of answering eating the the second stage is the craving, and this is the stage that separates my model from some of the other that are out there. And I think it's very important because it's about how you interpret the Q ended explains why different people can have different habits in the same circumstance. So for example, let's see two people to room. There's a Pakistan Gretz on the counter one person who's a smoker. They might see that Q and they immediately have craving to smoke. So the q- hollow by creating and that drives their response to cigarette. The second person though, who's never smoked cigarette in their life. They look at it and to them, it's just neutral, helping it's in the environment. And so it's really about that interpretation that determines whether or not you take action. So we consider creating Kelly the motivational force that drives you act and Thursday. Just the response. That's the the actual habit itself. And then finally there is a reward. And the reward is basically the outcome of the here. As you can hear James clear and engaging and enlightening guest. So I hope you'll subscribe to focus culture and check out the rest of the thanks again. For listening to take note and come on over to focus culture available now at your favorite podcast provider.
TWiT 735: I've Got a Chatroom in My Thigh
"Coming up we got a great panel for you security expert seth rosenblatt is here along with jason heiner from CBS interactive my good buddy harry mccracken from fast company we will talk about the apple google spat a little shade being thrown facebook leaks four hundred million users phone numbers carson says that's no different than the phone book and the samsung fold are you ready to spend two grand maybe it won't be as expensive as you thought it's all coming up next on twit quit net casts you love trump people you trust it is tweet this is twit this week in tech episode seven hundred thirty five reported sunday september eighth twenty nineteen i'm gonna chat room in my side visit we get tech is brought to you by mid mobile they provide the same premium network covered you used to but at a fraction of the cost because everything is online mobile makes it an easy to cut your wireless bill down in just fifteen dollars a month with their three-month into electric plan plus get the plan ship to your door for free at mid mobile dot com slash twit and by casper asleep brand that continues to revolutionizes line of products introducing the new casper hybrid mattress featuring their award-winning foam layers now combined with springs get one hundred dollars off towards select mattresses by visiting casper dot com slash twit one and using the promo code twit swift one at checkout ham by was sabi hot cloud storage thinking about moving your data storage to the cloud with sabi is enterprise class cloud storage at one fifth the price of amazon s. three and up to six times faster with no hidden fees for egress or API requests calculate your savings try was sobbing with free unlimited storage for a month at was sabi dot com code twit ambae ziprecruiter hiring is challenging but there's one place you can go we're hiring is simple and smart that place is ziprecruiter or growing businesses connect to qualified candidates try it free at ziprecruiter dot com slash twit it is time for tweet this week in tech show we cover the week's tech news we've assembled a great panel for you it was going to be the in studio but jason heiner got caught in <hes> airline delays sorry to hear that jason but he's still with us via skype jason hey glad to be here officially we now editorial director at seen it that's right we've promoted you upstairs yes sorta he's at the sixty fourth floor or the marriott that's why great to have you always a pleasure also joining us in studio harry mccracken great to have the technology geyser on site tech that area at fast company and <hes> and look who the cat drug ins rosenblatt is also here sets at the paradox dot com now formerly seat at the dash parallel great to meet you nice thanks for coming thank you he gave me his two f. a. f. t. w. sticker i couldn't agree with that more right and as a result my fire fox said i need your uber key before i'm going to go on like yeah yeah it took it took him tickets word took it for its word <hes> actually let's talk security since since we have seth here alex stamos on twitter this week apple posted a response to i guess we should go back in time and talk about google's zero day blog publishing <hes> the story of an exploit exploited IOS exploit that they uncovered in february responsibly notified apple about apple fixed within a week back in february google was a a little coy in their original post they said they wouldn't say who the exploit took advantage of it they called it a mass exploit because it took advantage of a variety righty <hes> it was really a complex attack that took advantage of writing zero days in iowa's ten eleven twelve <hes> four four years worth of IOS and <hes> was on websites so everybody visited the website potentially with an iphone was potentially essentially hacked they this project zero blog talked about how <hes> anybody in a sensitive subgroup that might be under attack from government government would be you know this would be a serious cause for concern google was not saying it was but shortly thereafter tech crunch came out with the story i suspect they got briefed by background by google that it was the leaguers muslim-majority in china was the chinese government that had perpetrated the track which kind of makes sense because it's such a complicated attack it's usually nation states and usually nation states use these zero days which are very millions of dollars often to get they ask them in targeted attacks on dissidents individuals but in a way this was a targeted attack it was on eight different sites that were you know we're news news <hes> you know sites that we would be likely to visit although anybody who visited them from anywhere in the world would have been opened this attack apple wrote a response kinda slamming google saying it wasn't a non mass attack <hes> it you know so now the you know the background let me read you the response the twitter response from alex stamos former <hes> a security officer at yahoo than at facebook he now teaches security at stanford he says he's recovered see so apple's response to the worst known iowa's attack in history should be graded somewhere between disappointing joining and disgusting i off disputing google's correct use of indiscriminate when describing watering hole attack that is an attack on websites that that a- attacks anybody who visits the website smacks of well it's okay it didn't hit white people that might be going a little far the use of multiple exploits against an oppressed minority already you know authoritarian state makes the likely outcomes terrible it's possible this data contributed to real people being reeducated or even executed even even if we accept apples framing they're exploiting leaguers isn't as big a deal as it gets google makes it out to be they have no idea whether these exploits were used by the people's republic of china and more targeted situations uh-huh dismissing such a pop possibly out of hand is extremely risky then accuses apple of not mentioning china because of the leverage china has over the world's most valuable public company to be fair google's post also didn't mention china but finally the pivot to apple's arrogant marketing is not only tone deaf but really rings hollow to the security community when google did all the heavy lifting here i'm guessing we won't hear tim talk about how they're going to do better on stage next week since you cover <hes> security will start with yussef short <hes> i that was a lot of facts a lot it in there now i want to know what you think about it first of all was alex right do i think alex is right in this case <hes> absolutely absolutely <hes> i think you you know security often winds up being a <hes> <hes> sort of the brakes on a car <hes> for attack <hes> <hes> security plays this role where can allow tech to proceed <hes> even faster in some cases but you still have to understand how to use the brakes and <hes> <hes> i think it's long overdue that <hes> companies like apple and google of course <hes> you know have their <hes> their sort of you know come to the guru moment and start taking this stuff more seriously in one of the challenges is that it requires the security teams from these different companies to interact more more and better yeah <hes> and so in a situation like this where google has an inhouse sort of skunkworks team that has has been for years <hes> finding zero days and giving <hes> the organizations that own those zero days relatively short the amount of time to fix them ninety days in most cases the normal time though that's what they call spa disclosure faster and it sort of depends on on really what it is is that's being described as it's not easy to fix exactly in this case seven days apple fixed apple did fix it yeah which is great <hes> but having more transparency about the process process and having more <hes> awareness <hes> you know among the people who are potentially being targeted and i think one of the points that alex makes that's really key here here is that this is thought to have been used against the warriors <hes> but you know who are for one thing being you know shuttled off into concentration camps camps and china say nasty situation very bad but we don't cousin the religion basic sure <hes> and we don't know where else <hes> china has been using this exploit right and we don't know if anyone else has been using them either did apple downplay the sierra the seriousness of this expert from their statement it looks like they did yeah yeah yeah they <hes> one of the things they were upset about is that <hes> google implied that they said google's post issued six months after i was patches were released creates the false impression shen of mass exploitation to monitor the private activities of entire populations in real time this was never the case i think apple was at great pains to tell tell the world you're not being attacked <hes> which i understand but at the same time downplaying the real genuine danger to the people who were being attacked harry area meanwhile apple has put the microphone in front just to get you on like a huge amount writing on the notion that the iphone takes privacy more seriously than any other yeah they're the ones who are saying we're the most secure plan they literally run ads about this stuff and so they they are not surprisingly really sensitive about stuff that might lead average consumers to believe that they aren't taking this seriously or are asleep at the wheel on it i mean it feels like you can read that endo- they're they're the comments they put out apple accused google of stoking fear among all iphone on users that their devices have been compromised this was never the case and it's possible for something to be really serious even if it is likely that average consumers in the US were never targeted and i think also the fact that it's google who discovered this and told the world about it probably plays part <hes> this was discovered by apple's principal competitor and there's absolutely no reason to think that the people at google who discovered this have invested interested in knowing look bad but imagine that played end apples reaction to it as well yeah well in fact on macrey quickly we talked about it and <hes> rene ritchie said this is an attack by google the conspicuously admit other google vulnerabilities but this wasn't about that this was is a standard kind of blog post about an exploit and then another thing is the fact that this involves china <hes> this incredibly important market for apple <hes> but you know this all boils down to a human rights issue and i would i would have liked to see apple acknowledge that and this response heavy technology that they could point out that <hes> this was pretty much targeted and does not mean that <hes> mm-hmm after that the iphone is broken as platform securitywise that's i mean that's a pretty far bridge to to take back that i phoned security's broken <hes> but but for consumers to think that whether you're consumers in in you know first world countries or whether you're consumers using you know a third hand iphones to think that because you're on an iphone secure is also nonsense and and the marketing of security has been you know at apple has been this is because we're a privacy forward were also security forward and that hasn't <unk> who's been the case and it's a it's it's misleading to concern would be more accurate for apple and everybody else to say if you're a target especially if you're a target of a nation state there's you're you're pretty vulnerable no matter what device you're using you shouldn't say oh he's an iphone and a half to worry right jason yeah certainly the this is also similar argument like with mac right there are a lot of people that went back i don't have to worry about viruses and have to worry about right if if you are targeted vulnerable all of these platforms have zero days they all have vulnerabilities and now the level of of attacks that can <hes> they can you know access <hes> devices and target people is are so sophisticated and so powerful that it's very vulnerable place to be up for for all of us and journalists i wanna point out to we are increasingly being targeted for for these kinds of things and so it's that that does make it a scary time in a time where you have to be more careful than ever and more thoughtful than ever what about alex is established as implication jason that apple downplayed it because they have to be careful with china which is a very important market for them you think that's yeah i don't know i it's it's so hard to to to say hey there's a lot of he said he said she said he said there's no women involved at all yeah yeah a lot of they said they said in this it i i it's hard to find people's motivations and there's not a whole lot a whole lot of breadcrumbs that lead yeah that's fair i wouldn't want to impugn project xeros rose motivations and but i wouldn't impune apples either i think apple's real point with his release was to reassure the general public that you're not being attacked tact but it was a little tone deaf because a minority being attacked and and life was at risk and i think stamos does have a good point in that apple is being disingenuous asserted that that they don't have they weren't playing it but it does kind of it is a good example of how security and marketing are all marsh together and difficult to separate and <hes> i think that was a actually stay moses original point <hes> which is don't let your mark com guys undermine undermine the good work your security guys are doing <hes> melanie unsound tweeted in response to something that stamos had wrote stamos said <hes> ah i i've worked for companies that take took too long to publicly address their responsibilities this is not the path you wanna take <hes> facebook why left facebook but also yahoo <hes> and he that's right he's worked for today's it says apple incredible security work but this kind of legal calms driven response can undermine that work any in he saying this to happen please demand better her <hes> and i think that's that's a really important point that for one thing there's not going to be a lot of external forces i think that are going to be able to change how companies operate in this instance it has to be coming from the inside and has to be coming from the security teams saying to the rest of the company hey stop screwing us <hes> and then melanie who worked at <hes> facebook with alex and i think she's now at uber <hes> i is is a great security coms person <hes> said you know the problem in facebook's as books case was at the legal calms response was actually policy political response right and i think that's what's happening it's just it's it's policy political and it's in its concern concern about legal issues not about the security issues that are really at stake here what's the takeaway for <hes> everybody who uses iphones thrown out exactly what apple's worried that you might say oh no you don't it's no different security is no less than it was before this this happened right it's yeah be more careful than ever right two factor authentication <hes> be real mindful about apps that you install look at the permissions permissions that those apps are taking some of them are pretty egregious <hes> and the scary thing is some of our app that are supposed to help you with security we just published an article this past week about five reasons why you should never use a free VPN a lot of the free VPN apps out there that people are downloading right to help protect their security thirty are they can end up getting infected with malware and spyware and tracking software and all kinds of things so <hes> <hes> unfortunately it's it's a tough time to be a consumer and to have to deal with all of the security and privacy issues out there and this is going to continue to multiply over the next few years so in all of us have an important job to do and help in whatever ways we can to inform the public to help them find easy ways on ramps to to to protect themselves in ways that aren't going to be too onerous because we know if it's the thing with security if it's too onerous people just opt out and they won't do it and then they end up vulnerable SSU cover security honestly a little is it even if you really wanted to be secure and private you probably wouldn't use a smartphone at all right i mean it's you wouldn't use any of this stuff no all you wouldn't be on the internet you know so so steve gibson it says if you want a private conversation go out in a field in fact both of you should be stripped naked and whisper into one another horrible doesn't sound like fun are you at bernie's right burning mr but it's true that's i mean the the only real private communication is one that is so so so this is actually a real the others the flip side of this issue in in talking about security is how do we minimize foot how do we talk about is like in ways that are <music> are serious and valuable <hes> but do not spread unnecessary fear and uncertainty in doubt i like to think of it as doom but that's that's just me dooms good good to go so in so in in educating the public about what's happening with security and privacy and what they need to know not spreading cut is a very fine <hes> <hes> line to to tread and reasonable parties can disagree about what is absolutely fighting what's not you're absolutely right <hes> but you know one of the things that we talk a lot about in insecurity is <hes> your personal threat model <hes> and we talked a little bit about this earlier how journalists have to be they have to really start thinking about their the threat models not only <hes> in terms of some nation state hacking them but perhaps government surveillance perhaps there are companies <hes> that don't like the reporting according <hes> and so it's really important for journalists to think about this no matter what level of journalist you are <hes> and then beyond that what is your what's your personal the threat model who do you think is actually going to be attacking you <hes> in a where are you using your credit cards are you using tap pay instead of swipe <hes> you know all these different things things and apple's pretty good about giving us technologies that allow us easily to do things like that apple pay and the apple credit card is a more private kind of credit card carter absolutely and you know we were even using your fingerprint log in i have issues with face ID but but <hes> touch ID was revolutionary not in the not in the sense that that it was technologically revolution we've had fingerprint log ins for devices for decades but to be able to log into your phone and suddenly have everybody using iphones joins because so many people upgrade to new iphone so rapidly to be able to do that dramatically increase the security of the device and that's the kind of thing that people need to understand hilton encryption ah built in encryption apple at both on that now with with their with their phones and comes encrypted out of the box google's efforts to do HTTPS there's there's a lot going on on but at the same time if you're in a minority if you're a minority in a country you're targeted you're out of luck state wants you know you're not out of luck but there there are things that you can do to make sure that you're being more secure when you do have to use your device yeah <hes> there was a threat on read it in the privacy tools thread what what <hes> edward snowden do and it's generally agreed after some back and forth conversations edward snowden has recommended signal and cubes cubes OS and so forth but it was generally agreed at this point both the US and russia know exactly where edward snowden is they're probably monitoring all his communications it's if if you really the target of this kind of surveillance it's going to be pretty hard to this is actually a really interesting thing a couple of years ago i did a story on <hes> traveling internationally and how how to be secure when you travel internationally and one person i spoke with for the story said that if you if you are for example an activist in syria right you know oh that you're going to be surveyed there's no question that governments are watching you the question is which governments are watching and it's you're probably better off of having the US spying on you then you are having lebanon which amazingly because of the decrease in cost of tools is now spying on people <hes> ah you know then having lebanon spine you and so the source said if you know you're you're being watched you it's a good idea to use skype and you do the out out in the open will be out in the open about your verbal conversation but they're probably not observing the video and so you can use the video you can use pre-arranged signals to communicate in ways that are non verbal that's what you need though you need it for a further encryption technology but sometimes beat knowing that you are being watched is is safer in a sense that you know how to deal you're being watched and deal with what a world we live in an interesting things which is that the the the costs have gone down to be surveillance state yeah so you know you can pretty much assume any interested party has the tools or at least has some tools yeah yikes point two really good in that there's a lot of misinformation about security the fact that that we are vulnerable <hes> marketing we talked about earlier sort of their marketing companies that that market their products they try to take advantage of the fear <hes> and a scary things and so it's also our job to debunk some of those people understand yeah it's possibly to be not scared enough or too scared about a lot of the stafford or do too scared about the wrong things i mean i think about all my friends who are not terribly technically savvy who whenever anything goes wrong with any other devices the first thing uh-huh virus and in fact seventy five percent of the time it's user error or random normal technology going bad kinds hansa stuff or you know earlier before we got on the air you were talking about how you use a VPN all the time and that surprised me this is the new you do that's really relatively recent yeah and that's not always the best thing to do i learned that you can't get in our chatting can't get enough people to watch netflix financial sites thanks would reject back to you VPN's are used their double edged sword there used by bad guys also to obscure their identity yeah so maybe i need to <hes> i mean why did you start using a VPN everywhere general paranoia probably <hes> well it's like me i stopped using chrome i started using fire fox because <hes> fire fox especially the new fire fuck sixty nine has really good and e fingerprint tracking ad tracking technologies and google has basically indicated its desire to kind of preserve cookie tracking acking another kinds of traffic and he needed it's their business model and <hes> while i love chrome <hes> and i'm starting to think maybe i shouldn't be using it five bucks a very capable good browser are we need by the way we also don't wanna monoculture everything seems to be chromium based including microsoft's new edge browser it's good idea to support fire fox so that that there's a wifi network i don't know too much about it seems sensibility is yeah that makes sense yeah but also this idea of using to of using only one browser i think is is a gross misconception of of what's happening in the browser spain as an individual i should have multiple browsers yeah why why yeah i do because you so you want you want to have your financials only happening in in one browser but you don't necessarily want to go to amazon from the same browser that you're doing your your financial because of cross site scripting scripting any <hes> just just the idea of of of of <hes> is the cook okay the third party tracking cookies are live in browser they don't live on your system so if use the same browser that enables better tracking doing so don't use different browsers or that's interesting i never thought of that also allows us which is my favorite thing as many times as you can have breath you're one of those <hes> it's interesting the geek world you are you a multi tab kinda guy <hes> jason yeah and a- and multi browser to yeah i think the world divides into people who closer tabs look i got one tab open closer tabs as hygienic to be hygienic janik and then those who just came all open it's never know when you might need a tab or or an email right we keep all over email on my email i felt so bad john and i were talking last night about an old friend and i said i'm wondering if i've heard from a recently i got an email from her in two thousand seventeen i didn't respond to and i felt so bad and now now debating can i now i just say i'm really sorry i slipped through the cracks or do do i pretend it didn't get get here that i have like twenty five year old email i still have and it'll be fun to randall may respond to some of the writing i've been thinking since nineteen ninety four and i've come up with an answer that would be five thousand meters anybody sent me email the responded to i'm sure i just missed it sometimes i actually i confess sometimes i'll read an email i that's too much work to answer right now i'll answer later which means and never ever get shorty you do that right everybody this well you g mail introduced they think it was earlier this year this this snooze button for emails could idea oh god i love this news see if i snooze it though then i then it's just next time i log in i got a bunch of email hitman i don't even wanna yeah yeah if you care about your security purity stop using chrome and stop using facebook this probably the best things you if you're really paranoid i celebrated my one year anniversary off of facebook last month and it i can't say i missed it but again i'm an unusual situation i know there are lots of people that's how they can't touch with family and friends and that's not an option for them so i still still have an account i just i don't install their apps on any of my vices because they have been so agree with i feel like their policy looks like they are like we'll take the fines we'll just you know if we compromise people security would this is the new one thank you carson for pulling this up from MIT technology reviews remember remember when facebook asked for your phone number two factor authentication and then it came out that they were using your phone number to market to you now it's come out that they have put four four hundred nineteen million phone numbers on in a database in public without password access just anybody could see i would like to note though that AT and t. did this as well okay they they used to be fair they had <hes> non password this word restored phone numbers in paper files paper files and they delivered these files to everyone in the united states <music> so you mean the phone book and he's gonna linked to white pages dot com okay smarty the pants you actually had to pay them to not i still do have an unlisted phone number you have to pay through just crazy security researcher discovered she's karston now we go for that one am i wrong that it was not the facebook at this stuff but somebody else who somehow had the phone numbers they may have been scraped was discovered by a security researcher <hes> sanyo jane passes discovery on tech crunch <hes> the server hosting the database was not password protected it could anyone could find an access it included facebook doc i dis names genders countries and phone numbers <hes> for one hundred thirty three million US based users eighteen million UK a user's fifty million vietnamese users people only no way to know if your data was among the leaked records this fudd is this fudd he is fun no who cares about phone numbers we'll spam is a serious issue my phone only only rings for spam it's terrible we'll also remember it's if it's linked to more than just a random list of phone numbers if it's linked to additional information that's not good karston and it's not that individual piece that's bad but the problem is and this is the big problem in general is the aggregation of multiple data sources into one giant dossier it's just somebody yeah sorry go ahead it's just another piece of information about you that shouldn't be in public unless you want it to be and the fact that you get here's the real offensive part the fact that people gave these numbers to facebook assuming that they would be protected and not be used for two factor or other legitimate reasons and not be used for marketing purposes and that facebook cavalierly just post put this database online with no security is offensive whether it really is a bad thing i mean my phone numbers out in the public i don't care about that i just don't answer the phone anymore well i mean that that that's a big that's a big part of the issue i think is that facebook has proven to be extremely careful cavalier that's exactly yeah exactly if with their user data to spite their assurances that you know only they explain it <hes> so this is only he's slightly assuring yeah so only we will explore you oh that's okay then but that that's what people are expecting and yes yeah i mean honestly most people signed up for facebook even today assume that facebook will only reveal that information to your friends you know yeah what worries me is that if somebody knows your mobile number than they can <hes> spoofing fear factor charleston and we know sim jacking a massive massive problem just just as jack <hes> who got sim jack by the chuckles chuckling squad <hes> jack <hes> dorsey of course the CEO of twitter account was hacked because he had signed up for a company that twitter bought that allowed you text message a tweet without without any authentication and if twitter said oh that came from your phone number must be you <hes> so that they've checked that off at least temporarily <hes> all right apple has an event there's a happy apple story we're going to get to the happy apple story happy apple story and just a little bit <hes> by the way facebook spokesperson jan nen carro said the data had been scraped before facebook cut off access to user phone numbers so it's okay it's okay this old data this is back when we allowed that dates from when they were in pretty cavalier so they yeah we're no longer cavalier avellino the data said old appears to have information obtained before we made changes last year did you see that i got got the phone number for chris hughes oh perfect facebook cofounder now is who is yeah and <hes> they texted him and it turned out it's somebody else now but he also says i keep getting called by people who are trying to reach chris hughes at this phone number oh lord oh lord i i'm going to have this panel this is great thank you seth for joining us issues first time but he feels like he's been here forever seth rosenblatt z. i see at the paralympics dot com somebody who has been here forever our friend harry mccracken for the technology and jason heiner to i guess you're a longtime twitter editorial dettori director it's seen at tree better now he's great he's a big great our show today brought to by i meant mobile i'm a i am become a huge fan of mint mobile might mobile phone i i use a one plus seven <hes> pro on mobile i just love it for three hundred bucks a year i get twelve gigabytes of data a month unlimited text and phone numbers literally the least expensive service i happened because mitt mobile runs on t. mobile they're what we call an MVP no they they use t. mobile's towers i get the same great service i get on my other phone for a whole lot less if you still using one of the big wireless providers in twenty nineteen really you are overpaying and part of it is because you have to pay for those expensive retail stores inflated prices hidden fees they know you'll pay most people don't even know they have a choice enter mint mobile the same same premium network coverage you're used to but at a fraction of the cost because they don't have stores it's all online no retail locations that overhead just gone on and they pass those savings on to you your wireless bill could be as little as fifteen dollars a month with the three months introductory plan every plan comes with unlimited nationwide text and talk and you don't pay for data you'll never use you could choose what you do is you look at your phone bills how much data do i use three eight twelve gigabytes of lt data a month then you pick the plan that's right for you i i pick the twelve gig plan because i know i'll never use more than twelve gigs that's actually more than i used but boy the price was so good i thought this is great and i paid for year that got the price way way down three hundred dollars a year for twelve off gigabytes but they have plans for as little as fifteen dollars a month for three gigabytes you figure out how much data you need you bring your own phone if you want you can even port your number so you keep the same phone number all your contacts people will still not reach you all your ditching is their old wireless bill start saving with mint mobile mint mobile dot com slash twit to get your new wireless plan just fifteen dollars a month with their three month intellect replan and get all shipped to your door for free go to mitt mobile able dot com slash twit i love the fox i've been very happy with the fox so much so that is just gonna i really wanna move all my phone's over to mobile because unfortunately i have have wait night if you saw my mobile bills way too many may to any accounts way too many phones mint mobile dot com slash twit you're gonna love it meant mobile highly recommended mobile dot com slash twit so this is an expensive time of year ear for me the new iphone be out apple watch TV out the new pixel four will be out there's a bunch of phones at e <hes> yeah let's start with tuesday apples by innovation only event there's the invitation which i did did not get harry you surely will be going and jason will you be going is that why you're in town it's wyoming town but i'm actually you know running the control room i'm from h to basically i've got people on the team that are there you know basically figuring out what happens what surprises they are wire make sure we've got everybody covered we've already got our game plan but there's always a few surprises so you guys so your coverage is on mhm seen it do you stream do anything else with that we do we have a live show so like you guys we live show where we talk it up <hes> we also will publish a bunch of stuff on youtube so you can find a lot of our videos <hes> on youtube i takes i looks you know from the <hes> i'm from the hands on area we'll have a of course hosts a event <unk> we'll have coverage of all the <hes> of all the stuff that's announced announced as well as <hes> reviews in bor takes perspectives of albany good stuff we'll we'll be doing that too i'll be in here ten AM <hes> i'll be joined joined by mica sergeant and <hes> apple for the first time it's gonna stream this on youtube might explain why apple keeps taking us down on youtube when we do our streaming coverage <hes> of their events maybe they thought you know we don't want anybody to think that this is the only way you can watch it i don't know anyway <hes> ooh apple will stream on youtube we will not because we don't wanna get taken down when they take us down it's twelve weeks or so before we get back up so that's not worth it for us <hes> but we will put it in other places too you figure out where i don't want the apple warriors to know <hes> and <hes> and you can watch live where you can watch after the fact there's always it's always fun it's really almost at least it started in two thousand seven as a religious holiday you know the apple acolytes gathering to hear the great the one on the only the steve dispense his wisdom and in the early days of the iphone it was a big deal every year there was something new and amazing there was gasp ask worthy one more things and bans and so forth it's hard for apple though to keep doing that year after year here we are in what is it year twelve of the iphone there are way more leaks now you're far more likely to know the base suck yeah futures i do think i mean it is still fun to hear them tell the story because the leaks are just about about speeds and feeds well the leaks are facts they you don't get their spin let's be fair to spend but it's fun to say and often an ultimate lane you do not buy a new phone for speeds and feeds you buy it because of the nations will let you do and are you an iphone and ipad user at the moment i'm <hes> an ipad user and pixel three years yeah and yeah and tuesday i'll decide whether next phones going to be an iphone or a pixel challenging don't so much about the pixel for you and that won't be till next you know that miami might have because when google was faced with the pixel for lakes at <hes> decided to say yes took that close cameras yeah not to jump back and forth i mean both both platforms are cool and if you write about the stuff it's useful to i usually carry both although i lately instead of the three XL <hes> i've been carrying the one of the samsung either the ten plus ten <hes> and i really i i actually like what samsung's doing their hardware is really really really i stopped using them at the six how come because it was crap it was crab you're it it it felt plastic but it also kept crashing on me and it was only i think a year and a half old than i was i was done i was so done they don't let you play with mine i feel unlock your phone from me i'm unlock my phone call i use i'll use the highly secure onscreen finger oh it's already unlocked great wonderful i think their phones gotten a lot better and i think they don't oh crap the android they still have some software shas well soda's google let's be fair the pixel three had some awful software some people bull i had a great experience on the pixel but i know it was aggressively loading and she couldn't run apps in the background in the first six months heard somebody say something which seems to me to be true which has pixel phones are a little bit like a windows PC ten years ago where if you use them for six months they become progressively we call it a bit rot the most reliable and a little gear and google google assistant doesn't always work for me right now and i'm not entirely sure why that's not good that is their flagship product it doesn't work <hes> it's pretty nice yeah yeah recognition to use the the rounded rounded edges on that for what it's lighting in i've got little edge menu so i can <hes> swipe through the edge menu yeah i i you know this is not using samsung's launcher i'm using an action launcher but but <hes> i think it's a very nice i love the cameras effect i'm really pleased i think samsung samsung was the first to <hes> maybe the i actually <hes> maybe while way or or a month plus was the first multiple lenses but apple apparently will now have have at least two maybe three lenses on the got to now right so it'll be three that's what samsung does now his apple to do the same thing the samsung does with the three lenses you've gotta gotta telephoto you've got a normal and you've got a wide angle or are is apple going to do with other companies do which is combined data from three lenses to make a super photo do we know i mean it could be so so there's there's reports the latter is true in you'll take that photo and you will have that sort of super photo as you call it <hes> and so afterwards say you cut somebody's arm off for something right which is easy to do and when you're using your phone taking a gun you'll be on his yeah you'll be able to zoom out on that photo afterwards right so that's one of the reports i like the way they're going to do that that would be pretty neat you know to say like oh i shot this just a little bit wrong which gives more headroom or whatever and so that would be that would reprise <unk> pretty cool spectacular but yet but the idea is but it's likely three camera lens with sort of stint went we think of as a standard camera which is a right basic wide angle and ultra wide angle zoom out and then of course the telephoto zoom e i love the ultra wide angle on the the latest a samsung's because the ability arms to take selfish anymore it's really it's really fantastic have to wonder if they're developing these ultra wide angles so that you can shoot holding the phone vertically like goober and and huber everyone today they're all wrong uh-huh and get and still get a horizontally oriented photo oh you can't just apple doesn't interesting thing thing a very opinionated thing if you edit your vertical video in i'm movie and they make it wide and they put bars on the side no we're not no we don't do vertical video good apple says no seth says don't do it we don't do it only choice to watch on a phone my cell only take what can i ask isn't that where you watch everything well it's fair you don't go home and watch your phone video on your TV TV on your phone you share it on your phone your friends watch the phone i throw stuff too lazy or or yeah email ninety percent of this view phone whether i is the future all the kids are using vertical even tick tock vertical god if in fact i think if tick tock if you turn it sideways says no no no you're doing it wrong the kids have been doing vertical for so long they're not kids anymore that's right adults adults so tell me about this by sense is that google does still have the edging what we call computational photography they were able to do with a single lens on the pixels pixels three would've took others to with multiple lenses and still get better images nights site and things like that is google it was like i don't know about the other stuff i think i'll be honest i think it's sometimes a little overblown i but for low light one hundred percent google with their software wear and then walk away with their hardware you know they're they're so far head and shoulders above everybody else with low light photography don't tens a little better and is closer sir but they have nightside now august update but it's still not as good it's good it's good enough for most people but it but it's not the best you know google pixel and weiwei are just so good and and it is remarkable to give them credit is remarkable what they've done with one lands and the fact that they're we're gonna go with multiple lenses i obviously have really smart people really care about this do you know are doing good stuff i think when with that going to multiple lenses they've got a lot of potential to really <hes> set set a new bar that's why i'm waiting for the pixel for before i decide which which is going to be i mean i'm going to have to buy them all anyway but but i feel like the pixel four might be because of its computational chops and now multiple lenses the best phone for photography the apple went through such a long period where they were the undisputed camera leads right and the last year or so that's not true and i would think that that gives apple strong incentive love to catch up the other guys and get a little i had it is true that google has incredible resources for anything computational we may have gotten beyond on the point where it matters in other words i feel like we're now better all of the camera funds are good enough for normal users were we're worrying about stuff that most people don't even worry about it but with the possible exception of low light where it's really important i don't use night sight as much as i thought i might it doesn't work well in situations situations where your subject as a pulse if there's any movement by these subject in present it's it's still you you you you know it needs the thing to be stationed so if you're doing like a very low light sunset or or landscape scene or whatever <hes> i find it to be okay <hes> fine but when you're trying like you see all these people i was at the massive attack show last night and everyone's holding up their cameras and i know and the pain of live music these days you know so so so shitty concert photos have replaced shitty concert pardons or t shirts uh-huh they're cheaper but everyone post their photos so it's awful grants awful i was at a show what was i at the other day and the guy stood up and said just as a reminder we're using professional videography is to make a recording of this you don't need to was this a wedding i don't remember but it was a very yeah good point we actually we actually have professionals recording this i think it was probably a show on HBO i was watching most likely my worst thing is and i mentioned this before so forgive me for repeating but it's still bugs the hell out of me because i'm an old man is when you see people down at the front of the massive attack show there in the front row they should be enjoying the music instead they're turning around and shooting a selfie with the band behind them and it's clear there's really only one intent to show your friends what a a great life you have you don't you don't think that's clever no lever it just shows me that you have a personality disorder well it's all whole front row it's the whole front row isn't it yeah i was at trane concert the other day and <hes> <hes> the guy from train basically embraces it he says oh let me do it and he takes a phone from people and shoots it himself as let me do it but i the people were throwing their phones on stage for him to take a picture jeez that seems like a bad idea what if you get back yeah because he just takes the picture and the throws it back out it's like a dumb thing to do <hes> apple is supposedly going to announce a new watch as well maybe this time <hes> in ceramic titanium as well as the sporty aluminum and i guess they have a stainless steel the remai- <hes> apparently have sleep features and sleep personally got me back on the apple watch really you wanna wear watched to bed like a porn star what's what's with you am i wrong i just don't give that to my dad i didn't even say it but but i guess i do like the idea of being able to say what kind of hours i've been sleeping which it because the apple watch for so long see really only enough juice to get you through the day was a nonstarter and where a i don't wanna we're watching a bit and be you're exactly right when are you going to charge it if you're wearing a day and night at it's an issue for sure so you think they need fast charging fast enough to charge while you shower exact look porn star of occasional use other screens but long battery we live just to get up to sleep i'm just gonna add like a point start every two random sentences now throughout the show and see what happens please do no please don't please do not he's not a from this i've been using the sleep watch on in the iphone maybe for like four months so this is a program that's on the phone but you have to sleep with your phone then no no so it's it's an app you download for the phone yeah but it's a watch out watch so it gives your apple watch sleep capabilities it does and you know the the interesting thing i <hes> like like harry i was wanting to track this because i was knowing that i was not not getting enough sleep and i wanted to really <hes> i wasn't data behind it and <hes> i was really worried about the charging thing <hes> it's actually i've never run out of battery on my on my watch i charge it like if i'm going to about to go to bed and <hes> i only got fifty percent empower <unk> before has great battery life lessons they'll get at the end of the day it's fifty percent power i'll put it on the charger for twenty minutes while i'm reading before i go to bed put it on it's like it's seventy eight percent eighty five percent as plenty to to to sleep through the night and get through the full next day is the additional no question of what do you do with this data because all it does is make you feel tired so so years ago when when he's off i health trackers came out i remember remember reading the story about this guy who collected months and months and months of of his <hes> pulse data and took it to a doctor in eh printed out these reams of data and said to the doctor what do you think of this and the looks at him and he takes his poulsen says you're fine yeah like like like we may have we may we may know down to the to the nanosecond how many how much sleep we're getting per but what do you do how does it look i i see so i don't wear watched a bit i have like a porn star i have paddles in my bed like a normal person there in between my master's in my box spring thing and they men are measure this is from sleeping tracker and i now know i don i watched so much more accurate though leo cares if it's accurate i got fifty seven out of one hundred on my sleep scores that could is bad i don't know sounds fails should i be tired i failed sleep leap deion sleep and sleep i mean demands the same reason that tracking stops worthwhile the the fact i know i'm tracking them makes me more likely to walk more if i'm tracking my sleep i'm more likely to get to sleep a more normal schedule it's not they don't get enough sleep it's i'm all over the board in terms of better early or late way has decided that fifty seven is not a d is his is an f. so thank you man i was grading on the curve on an african sleep start sleep like a porn star it actually makes sense <hes> the thing is when i did try some of those other the other ways to do it especially the under mattress thing got it was it was wildly inaccurate <hes> and so is having development is that accurate how accurate unrig because well i start to track like when i actually asleep when i get up and then i sort of see is actually doing it it's been accurate <hes> i've only found in since june like two times where i thought that it wasn't quite accurate <hes> and it makes more sense right it's on your body sensing in your heart rate it sends you your movement it's there it's not a surprise that it's more accurate i do think what <hes> what it's been useful for me is it's actually told me that when when i actually get sleep <hes> when i do it my sleep actually is very efficient so a lot of people find i was worried that maybe that wasn't the the case <hes> so i stopped worrying about kind of sets points it was like sleep is fine so don't stress out about it but to to to harry's point it has made me more aware of the fact of actually making sure i'm getting enough sleep the same way tracking your steps does the same way tracking your your meals <hes> you know when who observes the behavior you change the behavior <hes> by the very nature of it which social scientists some said for a long time so it's more in that in that vein i think what apple is gonna do i don't i doubt that apple's going to do anything as involved as what sleep watches sleep watch gives you some amazing data <hes> i think apple's going to give the basic set of data it's going to do probably a few smarter things that'll make all these other apps there's other absa do this too for the watch is gonna do things like the reports are it's going to remind you if you're at like less than fifty percent before you go to bed and you're usually tracking your sleep it'll say hey you know put your your <hes> your watch on the charger for twenty minutes for ego enough of a charge to get through the night and start your day tomorrow surveys for does seem to be the thing that makes it possible awesome because the battery life is so much better so <hes> a new apple watch tuesday with maybe a little better battery life maybe a newer faster processor sleep tracking mm-hmm titanium ceramic might be price drop because there's rumors then it may not be as serious five it may just be a series four with new finishes his sleep track which is really doesn't have right <hes> and then of course the watch OS remembers getting its own apps we learned about that WW DC <hes> so so so watch does have a few software upgrades but the hardware the reports are the latest reports are that it may they may call it series five you never never know like that's a marketing decision they may also just series four with new finishes and maybe a little bit more price drop i i don't know about that <hes> because they're they're already just cleaning up with the smartwatch market they're just owning it so i i don't know if maybe they have some data that they could go much further and sell them to these many more people people if the price was just bracket lower or sell you don't wanna you don't wanna glide too much you wanna if even if you're doing well you want to kind of keep sure keep the engine <hes> rolling they also there's also a rumor people who wait wait i while we're talking about sleep karston bondi do you want me to do as we're talking about mattress i don't care about i don't believe what my apple watch says i don't care if i got a failing doing great in sleep i've got a casper which means every minute i spend in bed i feel good casper is an amazing sleep brand that that just has revolutionized the mattress industry by eliminating the most costly part of the mattress industry it's it's it's not the expense of making the mattress it's not the high quality materials they use it's that silly store that you go to so you can lie on a mattress for a minute or two in decide which mattress you want the store doubles the cost of the mattress so casper said what if we what if we didn't do that what if we let people take their mattress delivery right to their house us and sleep on it for one hundred nights and if at any time in that first one hundred nights say they say this is not for me they could send it back get every penny back no cost casper is improving all the time they've done so much research on mattresses in avenue hybrid match i just got it features their award winning foam layers here's the famous for but also springs but it still comes in that surprisingly compact box why would you want springs while a couple of reasons it offers offers luxurious comfort but also resilient support elevated lift for active support durability for all body types increased airflow within the spring network it's always important sleep cool no springs help with that and this actually is a reason i love my new casper the hybrid mattress because it's got enhanced alleged support so so as you're getting in and out of bed it's easier because it supports you a little bit better and i just love that i i i think the casper mattresses are the best in the business you're gonna wanna try it and it's easy to do casper offers free delivery and painless returns in the US and canada a one hundred nights risk-free sleep on trial and they still come there's the box this is the new one with the springs i'm going to open up this box one of the best things about the casper casper mattress is you don't have to air it out it is fresh as a daisy right out of the box i can't say that i bought some in the past but such very expensive mattresses that he didn't wanna asleep on for a week because they had air out not the casper and watch this as soon as you take it out of its vacuum sealed bag it goes and expands to size and suddenly you've got the most comfortable night's sleep watch watch watch oh it's all that is a comfy mattress i love my casper and by the way said pets get a casper mattress today you can save one hundred dollars towards select mattresses by going to casper CAS p. e. we are dot com slash twit one and use the promo code twit one at checkout one hundred dollars off this one more reason you need a casper spor- casper CAS p. e. r. dot com slash twit won the promo code is twinned wanted check out terms and conditions apply we love casper you will to casper dot com slash twit one thank you casper for supporting our shows for so very long we've been with them since practically the beginning and <hes> the beginning of casper burnett beginning of twitter we're we're older than dirt but but since the beginning of casper and we're glad to have you aboard and you support twit by the way by using that special address casper dot com slash twit one promo code twit one thank you karston for helping me get a good night's sleep regardless very variable watch says <hes> there is at least some information in the apple source code for iowa's thirteen they're going to do a <hes> a bluetooth tracker a competitor to thailand tracker <hes> i don't know what to say about that except why not if you this is smart of apple they just adding lots it's of incremental little features that make you use apple services more this will be part of their fine my app <hes> hook you on that stuff <hes> yeah this was the reports it was going to happen in the spring around WWE remember WWE see released the new find my app was combines find my friends with my find my point star whatever you're looking for it's in fine but tractor on it you can find it right now there you go there you go you can find your amyloid phone you just put it in the case find your android following from your from your mac or something i think that would be pretty funny that's not allowed all right i think that's enough apple for today i'm telling you didn't mention the one juiciest rumor of the whole thing is that a free U2 album with every the iphone purchase only at <hes> the <hes> stephen smith and a few others have found some source source code in the a. r. code or for iowa's thirteen that shows stereo <unk> stereoscopic vision involved so what would you stereoscopic vision for goggles appar of glass shelves very very unlikely i was gonna say i'll make you a bet i'll make you a bet i'll bet you one hundred dollars apple doesn't not only does not announce that this year they never announces it but okay okay and i mean if it works on so there's no mark this isn't going to happen i don't know about that but <hes> but if they were going to they put a lot they've put a lot into a are right so and and remember tim cook every quarterly analysts call would say a. r. he stopped about six months ago he hasn't mentioned say it's interesting i wonder why either he's not mentioned it's going to do it or there's brave that's what he's mentioning illegal is right and there's no market for it it'd be but there's if they were going to do it i would say it would be a preview it when it be were announcing it and here it is used is this something that just everybody's got to have <hes> no definitely not i'm not a fan i'm just saying that's one of the reports the juiciest rumors it's out there there is also a report though that new apple TV it hardware is coming that's much more lightly <hes> because of all this stuff with apple arcade and apple TV actually i will tell you the apple arcade is the one thing i i think actually could be a sleeper hit a hundred games the rumor is five bucks a month <hes> these are not free medium these are not in-app purchases as you just get to play the game and you get new games every month came go on games go off i think that is a very big market for apple i i i think of everything apple might announce on tuesday that will be the one and if at ships at least for me i would buy it wouldn't you pay five bucks a month and just know that you're gonna have a bunch of interesting games uh-huh maybe you play maybe you want but you got him much given up games because i'm because i'm sick of in purchasing like i'm playing a slot machine so so this is going to be good you'll give the money upfront raft is going to be a huge emergency went that's going to be great yeah because the indie gamers who don't want to go through this whole process just wanna make a nice game apparently he's been paying out money a in advance to these companies you know that's how you're going to get this seated is paying companies develop games for it i think apple or can be the surprise hit of it and i think apple TV plus is is going down have you watched anybody watched any of the trailers they're awful sexy l. concern kaz what's the what's the deal with dickinson there's there's nothing sexy about emily dickinson you're so wrong utah being out of this one so crazy eerie on apple TV plus <hes> that it will be there's two reasons why i think it's going to be free for longer than a month qatar okay well that would be because you gotta get down to get the buzz there's no back catalogue right back callow to start it so what who who's going to pay ten dollars a month for three shows not very many people so you have that <hes> you also have the fact that remember member the the most well-known thing about that march event was what it was oprah's line of billion pockets y'all so clearly apple sold oprah on the idea that <hes> that this was going to be access to a billion pockets how do you get two billion pockets not not be charging ten bucks gillian pockets by making it free to everybody that has the most like the current version of IOS <hes> that's how you get to a billion users they have hit it because i don't see people are getting subscription fatigue already just one hundred till fall right because you're going to disney who i i was thinking maybe i mean this is totally speculative but would app apple's had a very positive relationship with disney for a long time maybe it comes at disney wonder i wonder if it comes at disney it could be i think disney walsum use lap i guess there's enough people who are fans of marvel star wars marlin argonne star wars what is it disney going to be box that's not too bad i guess all the kids movies and has dropped the in front of the child movies <hes> <music> all the the old disney like TV shows mickey mouse club mickey mouse club we'll come back uh when he parents so many parents i know are taking their parents won't it hold on i'm gonna hang on you heiner call you back a hit the TV jason in the hotel wifi killing him go ahead seth so when we move on from iowa thirteen there's one thing that that flag my attention <hes> they're going to stop allowing gene voip apps to function in the background on the iphone which means that if you're using what's atrophy puts him right out of business because you don't get calls right right well you do but you have to always be in the app you can't 'cause you do something else yeah well it ends the call but will you will the phone ring if somebody nobody can i call you on whatsapp it's not running will you'll get a notification you'll get a ring yeah so that doesn't kill that but it just keeps you from from switching aiming the app well that's all right now that's pretty serious people with verizon dealt with that for years where you couldn't do a phone call data stupid it was bad i only do i do calls on my ipad and then do other stuff i mean thousands we're working on one of these conference call <hes> apps and zoom zoom or blue jeans or whatever and then you have to switch to go check your email or check check whereas i think it's gonna be a hard thing for for those services he's anticompetitive tentative move or it's just apple trying to save battery say it's security security i don't know at one more apple yes i'm excited about the sixteen inch mac book doc which at least i am tuesday are they well it was on some list possibilities i saw though it seems they'll have more matt separate maxim magazine alex yeah <hes> but it sounds like it's the first new matt book in a while that's an all new mac book given that the last major new one was the math book erin the whole idea behind that was that it was an old design right <hes> and there are so many reasons why apple does need an anew lap design these days starting with the keyboard but and that's the most exciting about this they might abandon finally the butterfly keyboard and do a decent keyboard but this will also be pro which means it will be very expensive suv i too bad but in a fifteen inch body it's gonna be it's same size as their which by the way every other manufacture has been doing for at least a couple years so are they going to get rid of the jump from your ipad here <hes> this so it's not necessarily machine a day for myself because even fifteen inches is a bit big for me but i just i like the idea of apple doing a genuinely new <hes> laptop platform because i want to keep macintosh alive with all due respect to your ipad thirteen inch macbook pro which eventually replace it might look at something bigger because i use it mainly the at home and <hes> and therefore a larger screen would be fine and don't forget sometime before the end of the year that that mac pro that massively expensive mac pro has to come out and maybe that maybe that's a mac announcement in october <hes> instead of <hes> usually they wanna keep the iphone announcements that's such an important announcement for them they you wanna keep that separate from a a phone and a watch and a TV box multiple operating system updates they have a full slight yeah yeah yeah i'd be surprised if they if they talk back tomorrow i would be too but you never know tomorrow it definitely makes people listening samantha this tomorrow just to get out of the way they've done that actually they did that last time they slipstream PR play press announcements of other <hes> hardware updates i i apple music came out in a web version a few days ago which actually ties into something i care about which is that the <hes> on the ipad the web browsers safari arias so much better and this version and safari has finally capable of running sophisticated apps yes i'm the ipad yeah how many people are buying a samsung galaxy fold cricketer snicker snicker if comes out on the on the vilest you would have gotten to know one fifty bucks free i think they can't didn't they cancel the preorder sold the pre orders but they're giving everybody on the priority list two hundred and fifty two hundred fifty bucks yeah but it's a two thousand dollar phone now it's only a one thousand seven hundred under fifty dollars phone <hes> launches friday in south korea we don't know what it is gonna launch in the US launches <hes> in france germany singapore the UK no carrier specified in the US <hes> sometime but i in south korea september sixth there will will be a five g. option they say they've fixed the fold problems they will apparently have sort of concierge repair service <music> specialized customer care service to reassure you including one on one access to samsung experts at a twenty four seven support hub <hes> i still have to think it's going to be a hard sell this has got to be an enormous amount of investment not just the are indeed but making and then making it happen and then making it happen with so why god why are they doing this f a i don't know they wanna be they wanna be yeah they wanted me in front of <unk> right they see this as the next big one of the next big potential things for phones and while way <hes> they've been in a race with wow way to see who could release there's firsts essentially and i i mean i think they've they've been they will release this because they've been working on it for a long time i you know all the choices would be a major your business for samsung yam beyond the fact that they make device says they don't want some other company to become the leader fulling displays if they matter long term and i think fulton in one way or another folding will matter over the next few years sure but at the phone level see i mean i i'm one of the relatively few people spend some time with galaxy poll no it was not sold on that device at that price point with currently existing apps but i was sold on the idea that the general the lady and the technology can be valuable because it's almost a tablet in your pocket right and that's so we have an ipad we had very similar approach <hes> jessica don't court is looked at it you know <hes> for seeing that <hes> pretty in depth <hes> multiple times now and we liked the possibilities would recommend this device to too many people so to get but <hes> <hes> but it is a tantalizing look at the future and it certainly has hold some interesting possibilities that folding folding that screen really really have some questions in terms of long term durability to be able to do that but <hes> it is an interesting idea i think samsung's version is a little bit nicer than always he's the one that could be the dark horse is actually the motorola razor interestingly enough people love that form factor phones still it's a flip phone and it's both sides are a display right so i think that that would be the dark horse of being the most useful this first round around <hes> of these devices <hes> by samsung as harry said really wants to be in this for the display business if nothing else right that's that is what they do and it's a big part of of the future from their perspective so i have the same issue with a razor as i do with the samsung is there going to be a crease where that thing folds did you did you see a crease race which if you if you look at it's there but it did not bother me when i was after you so <hes> <hes> it just feels like that's i don't see that so much had on we don't know how well it's where we still don't know how well that's that's the key right how well when fully every day multiple times before samsung ran into the problems they were talking about how they had tested and validated that you could open and closed at hundreds of thousands of times they gave it to <hes> <hes> gadget and they broke it like in one day so the testing wasn't so good after all and it doesn't give really lend much credibility to their testing methodology that they didn't know that half the reviewers would break it but the they they used it wrong though not everybody peeled off the sticker the protective shield it's true they were in a race to get it out right this has been a race this year to see who could get it out i that trump testing and that trumped practicality who could get it out i just raise your v four because it's so compact when it's folded it just opens up to a normal phone size but when you fold up his little pocket square that's an interesting informed factor it sounds like twice yeah yeah like the pocket handkerchief samsung pocket handkerchief <hes> i think captain kirk too right like you put that thing open and that's why they call it the startac when it first came out so i don't what is this <hes> eh twenty nineteen the motorola raise your v. for when is it coming out <hes> it will be a small stink oh it's gonna be expensive fifteen hundred dollars is that right wow wow all right that's pricey i'm not sure l. pay them i wouldn't do that for that this is <hes> you will by leo you'll buy it for the future cyberpunk abra punks if it were banana colored i might is that your thing yeah fun's i love bananas and not a banana you have the nokia i didn't i almost did though i came close we know the bought the banana funds somebody <hes> so i don't i this was widely mocked but i thought since i have such smart people on the panel i'd ask you guys seth hairy hairy jason allen institute which is the institute for artificial intelligence paul allen i presume cincinnati that'll unveiled a a <hes> new by the past an eighth grade science test actually did better on an eighth grade scientists that my sleep test <hes> in in fact <hes> the low bar i i know maybe let's give you some <hes> let's give you some sample questions see if he can see you can do as well as aristo which which cell structure do nutrients pass through to enter a cell the membrane chloroplast side of plaza mer nucleus i'm going to say cell membrane correct correct aristo got that as well which equipment will best separate a mixture of iron filings and black pepper that's gonna come in handy magnet filter paper triple being balancer fulton meter mag- magazine ed with food is being mechanically this is you know what i k eighth grader i could see this is a good test but this is impressive for AI to know this right when food is be can't be mechanically digested whatever that is it's being changed into another other substance is being made smaller in size being converted into energy is being excreted from the body i have no idea for smaller in size smaller are really or about change into another cell it's being made smaller and so right you're right that's why he went to harvard this system <hes> <hes> this question is the only one aristo missed it gets converted into energy according to new york state which should know its <hes> made smaller all in size in new york state speaking of which there is a greater chance of precipitation falling as snow in january than march because january in the northern hemisphere is tilted toward the sun where temperatures are warmer toward the summer temperatures are colder away from the sun and temperatures are warmer away from the senate temperatures are colder colder once one would think it's colder right so we eliminate warmer armor away from the sun temperature colder yes aristo got that right and so did you you're so smart the movement of the liquid thermometer shows changes in the temperature and increase in temperature indicates the molecule and the lakewood move slower and closer together this is an increase in temperature move faster and spread farther apart contracted in size when he expanded size when he we'll move faster and spread farther apart right well i i almost passed aristo got that right so is this impressive recieve or is this just more jim crockery like <hes> IBM's deep blue are you impressed it seems to me those are hard questions for an AI yeah i because they imply <hes> understanding of physical university i doesn't even exist in well it's it's an accomplishment in synthesis of information it doesn't mean it it hasn't true understanding but it is good at understanding the question synthesizing enough information to get it right which is valuable long-term eh it seems like there's a huge business opportunity in computers synthesizing vast amounts of information and grinding them down engineer and our chat room <hes> says is it isn't in fact a better understanding of the physical world but it's better language models driven by neural networks i it's aristo is actually based on a neural network work technology called burt that was created by google and it was instructed to read thousands of articles and books through inch learned <hes> about the patterns yeah that makes sense i mean it it's really the training right like the the the important thing here is that they figured out how to build a i better not not so much it's answers the answers are important because they indicate what how the machine learning has been trained but without being able to apply that elsewhere then then it doesn't really it's not really going to have much of an impact but if they figured out how to take the way that they've trained this particular to <hes> to apply to other machine learning instances instances then they'll have something that's too critical smarter but <hes> shows that we've grown in how we're building thing is because we don't want them to identify you know to do all the the racist stuff that google AI was doing with photos and all these other <hes> you know bias mistakes these were multiple choice questions which means that <hes> he was trained to do multiple choice a lot easier than if you ask them the same questions and did not give them for institute from yeah it's very good what is really good at in far better than humans is pattern recognition right so <hes> things like this this it can do far better and so it's it's really good at enhancing humans <hes> not so good at replacing for many things that were you have gray areas is where you need to understand context where you need to understand <hes> and make judgment call on ambiguity and so <hes> you know one of the dirty little secrets it's about big data is a lot of companies that are working on the most are hiring armies of humans to do all of that sorting and <hes> collecting and decided i need on the ambiguities deciding on the grey areas making the decisions because it computers aren't very good at it and they sort and organize the data and then you have a crunchy right and it's super fast at those things and so you know yes there there are some of these is going to replace certain types work that involves <hes> where you you have some of that basic crunching because it's faster it's also going to create more <hes> different kinds of jobs and and that's a lot of what this discussion almost always seems to boil down to is like when is the i gonna gonna take my job and so i i think that's the thing to understand about got it you know it is still is not in our lifetime is not likely to be very good at <hes> understanding ambiguity understanding context next and that's where interestingly enough <hes> people who can mix liberal arts where which is all about those things <hes> with some types types of data science and <hes> that type of work have become extremely valuable jason you've seen that on the internet people human people we think they're human but they are terrible at understanding context you well maybe rushing troll butts no sorry put a little smiley face so they'll know you're joking and these are your friend and these are people with brains yeah ah i think you don't get you don't get over <hes> optimistic about the future of a and by the way at the end of the article the new york times clearly put this into make you all feel better they said <hes> the same researchers tried to teach a artificial intelligence to pass the graduate record exam which is the exam to get in graduate school and they just couldn't do it yeah so no no way is in graduate school but maybe ninth grade maybe yeah our show today actually before we do the <hes> add let me <hes> let let's do the promo we have <hes> a little video we made because you know we i know a lot of listen to this show but maybe not know about all the other shows <hes> we we do here on the twit network with new shows coming along with mica sergeant he's developing some shows aunt you're going to be doing a why won't say but i'm excited about the chauhan's pruitt's working on here's what you missed this week we had some fun on twitter previously onto it uses a wait a minute this isn't a battery waste one minute it looks like it's a right wrong or literal rom you think it was seamus yet there was what was before seamus fema was preceded by no moss security now google has expanded expand the scope of their bug bounty program as we know google has deep pockets in a nice to see them using some of that to further strengthen the play store the weekly i have not been invited the richie got his invite right from the nature did you get yours i just sit around outside outside and wait for people to come talk to me the puppy dog face super tech news weekly in this time i am of heightened awareness around technologies it makes more sense than ever that we begin to hear about technologies designed for war and battle that are driven by autonomous systems he's one of the big shifts here is the defensive use of automation to offensive us if we can go beyond rate are we can do things like using video feeds to understand understand potential targets now we can look at offensive applications that are much more extensive twit line ten print i love twit line twenty goto who line wow jim cutler did a little basic programming right in the announce their that's impressive impressive as heck one hundred like we stole my beating heart you it's in the other room it's yours i have two of them oh you already have to yeah that was the original model two hundred which you gave me i gave you a model to removed removed or one of your turned it over to me this is depressing we're actually getting back stuff we gave away the last time we moved this is not going to end well l. please don't send us your old computers please i got this box a cable ono no cable bucks hey by the way steve gibson you saw the steve gibson security now we are going to boston <hes> we're going to do a <hes> an event for last pass and steven i will be joined by bill cheswick chaz who is the the guy who invented the firewall a bell labs really great security researcher and jerry buchenwald who is the c- so of log me and we're going to do event in boston on october third at three forty five in the afternoon at the intercontinental hotel if you'd like to go it is free and in fact everybody who attends we'll get a one hundred dollars token token for the <hes> to donate to the charity of your choice which is really really cool our topic authentication passwords and why they're so bad and what's coming next cybersecurity and identity trans- unlocked if you wanna sign up there is some limited space but i wanted to announce it on this show so that you have a chance to go twits twit you gotta be in boston october third so don't sign up if you're not going to be in boston twits dot t. o. r. u. r. l. short twit dot t. o. slash unlocked if you're interested <hes> we will have <hes> we still have some seats left at that event thursday october third at the intercontinental hotel in boston as steve will be talking no doubt about squirrel his <hes> his platform chess just wrote a great piece on white passwords suck and <hes> i think it could be a really interesting what's next for us at our show did they brought to you by the cloud the hot cloud though was sabi hot cloud storage and we were talking about this last tonight we're talking about <hes> the my two buddies jeff flowers and david friend they founded carbonite jeff's the CTO david's the CEO you and jeff had patented actually together they'd patented a really interesting way of writing dated disc sequentially instead of block by block which makes it's it's so much faster so much more efficient that's what was kind of the foundational technology carbonate and they've now created a new cloud storage company called with sabi sabi that is doing amazing things the problem is everybody knows amazon and google microsoft nobody's ever heard of was saba so really wanting we'll get the word out about this was sabi is a fifth of the cost of amazon's s three one fifth the cost and is up to six times faster under and that's thanks to this revolutionary patented technology they're using it's also as secure as you can get eleven nine of data durability they have data data integrity checking so you never lose a bit they also have a feature i think is really important that you can set some or all of your data as immutable that means it can't be modified by ransomware or fungal fumble fingered employees so you could say this data is sacred it's sacrosanct it can only be changed if i say it can be changed <hes> this is really important being able to officially affordably store data in the cloud is important for so many businesses everybody's moving to the cloud and of course i nobody ever gets fired by by you know using one of the big three but honestly take the boss this information because i think when you say boss you could save at eighty percent it'll be six times faster it it there's no hidden fees for egress or API usage that by itself is gonna to save you a ton of money and it supports the amazon s. three API so you already know how to use it and yes it secure more secure than your on premises storage hip compliant fenra compliant look at the companies that are starting to use it i think this is really exciting you calculate the savings for yourself if you wanna bang on it you can get unlimited storage for a month and if you go to asaba dot com and click the free trial link but use the offer code twit that way you will get unlimited free trial for thirty days and so you can really put data on there and you try to change it you can see how fast it is you can really see what it can do join the movement migrate your data to the cloud do it with confidence and be one one of the smart ones this is a disruptor in this industry and <hes> from from guys who really know what what it's all about with saab dot com offer code twit thank you with sabi he <hes> david jeff have been great supporters at twit all along and i love to support him back we talked i think a couple of weeks ago about a conundrum facing our network <hes> we had booked in an interview with joey each oh who was the director of it was by the way the director of the MIT media lab he has a new book out denise how was going to interview and then it started to come out that joey had solicited and taking contributions from a former convicted child molester jeffrey epstein and we were now really conflicted about this interview fortunately <hes> i told denise said if if he comes on you're going to have to ask the hard questions we don't normally do that twit we you know we we don't want to get in confrontational interviews but if we're going to interview joey to who by the away i've known for years and have great respect for <hes> you're going to have to ask them the tough questions why did you take money from jeffrey epstein well a couple of days ago ago <hes> ronan farrow who's been such amazing work for the new yorker published an article based on documents they got from MIT that showed a that MIT he said we cannot take anymore donations from this guy he's a child molester and that be joey ito took steps and it's in writing it's an e mails goes to hide the fact that the money was coming from jeffrey epstein they said any jeffrey epstein donation has to be designated anonymous he they didn't use his name they only used initials in meetings it was a smoking gun and within a few hours of the release of that article <hes> joey ito resigned as director of MIT the media lab a lot of people had <hes> at least two people had left before that but that is quite a shocker and i think one of the questions we would've asked ito is his wife is is money so tight that you have to take money from a source like epstein apparently according to the pharaoh article in the new yorker epstein went to bill gates and said give money to media lab he was an intermediary and bill gates gave money to media lab as well which is somewhat mr fine nine because it's not like <hes> bill gates didn't know these guys in the first place so could've entirely clear jeffrey epstein needed to be a middle man in this well i th i think this is the subtext of this epstein was using all of this influence and all of these relationships to kind of scrub his record and so that makes <music> ito complicit in epsteins attempt to kind of rejuvenate his reputation <hes> an attempt that failed <hes> i guess there's nothing more to say about it jason it's just a it's bad and you know again i think he's done great work at media lab and <hes> and i had a lot of respect for him and <hes> i i'm just disappointed in shocks frankly is this is julie ito still <hes> on the board or whatever the new york times he basically resigned from everything including digital garage who's that that was his startup he also turned money for that he resigned for the times and uh foundation and several others hit a gig at harvard word which he stepped down from the macarthur foundation he left the james <hes> john s. and james l. knight foundation he left the new york times board he left a visiting professorship at harvard i mean and this is this is all of it all came out he said that he was it was his responsibility to lead the healing that's a bad sign whenever anybody's who's been involved with something says they're gonna fix it it almost never works out in the faroe article is a very dramatic <hes> set-piece where he's speaking into an all hands at the media lab and people are crying people are devastated <hes> and i think also a little bit disturbed served by his lack of <hes> kind of forthrightness all nicholas negroponte who i've also had a lot of respect for not come out of this looking good he basically said that he was an apologist yeah and then you're not making things easier but <hes> understatement wow <hes> so <hes> there you go i mean i the story is important in our tech community <hes> it's a small community and everybody knows <hes> edo oh as well as men negra ponti and i hope that the media lab which does such great work does not suffer from this but i think this is also yeah exactly MIT media lab does amazing amazing things you know also MIT technology review also does amazing work really respect the people over there we just quoted them on <hes> that's good coverage average of <hes> i think they're going to skate now the interesting thing is there's a netflix documentary called inside bills brain that comes out in a couple of weeks september twentieth he is and fast company my colleague david david lipsky you know <hes> <hes> asks an interesting question is net flicks gonna pull this does this besmirch bill gates as well it seems like at the moment of this is somewhat unclear what was going on with with gates and the stuff we i mean they <hes> his people kind of strenuously you deny that epstein was involved in funneling gates money to the media lab which is somewhat hard to reconcile on the face of it with <hes> the stuff in the faroe article yeah i worry about that strenuous denial to like because then it was it was so oh and paddock that if there are any loose connections it makes them look really bad <hes> david reached out to net flix no response <hes> <hes> i was interested in this documentary i didn't have high hopes for because it was dora was kind of under bill gates supervision which means it wasn't going to be exactly a hard hitting piece of gates but still fascinating fellow he doesn't not very nice to work with any and all all of us all of us were around in that era and kind of have every time i talked to a tech journalist who covered gates in that era clothing you guys paul thorughout mary jo foley say man this guy was not a nice guy i remember the office ninety seven workshop and seen him rip bender somebody who asked a question how that was at the tail end of <hes> obnoxious spell and not all that long there after he became sweater wearing <music> affable bell what happened mary melinda is that is that we had kids i mean kids that might help change tired he retired he wasn't running the business yeah yeah he turned his attention to problems that matter to the world more than selling office ninety seven yeah yeah i mean he talks about rehabilitating your image jimmy he definitely had a lot of image to rehabilitate <hes> and did <hes> but yeah i mean they were in it start you know the culture the company starts at the leader and in the eighties and nineties they had a really really aggressive amoral culture there that was <hes> from that was toxic <hes> and it's it's was known in the industry and having known people that worked there it was brutal place needs to be sometimes so i <hes> i was yeah NFL's back we're excited thursday night football it'll be football today tonight and i should check and see how our niners did no okay it says don't check the the surprise but i also saw i saw a lot of ads on <hes> <hes> on the thursday night game for verizon rolling out five if g in two thirteen NFL stadiums then i read this venture beat article <hes> by jeremy horowitz horizons bizarre rollout five g. raw now covers some seats in thirteen NFL stadiums they don't actually <hes> identify <hes> they NFL but one of the stadiums five g. will be concentrated parts of the seating areas but could be available in other locations in and around the stadium as well this is not the impression one would have gotten from the ad <hes> if you have five g. phone i mean my thought originally was oh great i'll go watch a football game but you have to be in the right seat at certain stadiums and maybe won't be on the whole time and this is just gene yeah yeah this is a metaphor for the state of five g. brochure we've done a lot of testing all over the place from australia eh to south korea to the UK <hes> to all across the US and it's great when it works but it's so inconsistent i feel like just the rollout of this is just easy to soon it's like over promising under delivering in a big way is so bad in the US is at least good in south korea or other places i mean no i it's not much better than the bottom line is no it's not much better it because you have to add so many towers is that part of the problem or is it <hes> i mean i'm starting to think maybe this is the wimax of our generation is this smell it's not as bad it's not that it's just that it's not bill out in you know the the what we think of as five g. we will think of millimeter wave and matt to your point leo you have to have a ton of <hes> access points everywhere all over the place right <hes> and then the the sort of the five g. <hes> but light is mill is <hes> the the version that is about half as fast but <unk> acts in a in a tower <hes> scenario much similar to like orgy today and it still super fast right or just aren't getting or hundred trade <hes> <hes> four hundred if you're the only four hundred megabits if you're the only one using it right of course it that's all these technologies really fast until everybody starts using it yes up six is the one that <hes> that one right so sub six is is is a big upgrade from from four g. l. t. networks although some of those networks are already pushing up there right <hes> it's just take that were consistent but millimeter wave is a much more extensive build out and it's only gonna be <hes> make sense where there's a lot of density population relation densely right so it just takes time and it's going to a lot more time than sort of these early these early ones are like here's one corner or where you can go and try out the millimeter wave just going like is usually move across the street you'll lose your whatever you do hello don't buy a five g. phone those boy so they should not no he should not be marketing this yet it's too soon yeah okay it should be beta software squares you'd be marketed like beta software you know <hes> and briar beware early are miss remembering remembering or is five g. really mostly for for like enterprise us for within organizations logical stuff is enterprise <hes> it's it should be really cool cars eventually in terms of making your phone better it's <hes> it's always nice to have a faster that's not probably will not feel guilty is pretty a fast fast enough to do all kinds of businesses things where this is going to be valuable to get real time data it's low late it's low latency if you're fact the equipment on your factory floor can be streaming data late and say and tell you when it's about to break down before it has that kind of stuff is super valuable right so more nodes connecting to the network so your your your points out that is there's a lot of really good enterprise applications applications where you're going to have a lot more things connect to the network you know from stoplights to water meters to power meters <hes> all all kinds of stuff so it's gonna use for that i i think in consumer where you're going to see the most interested in it is like mobile gaming so so the timing on something like apple blur canaan google stadia is going to be pretty good because those things that's why speed that's what's being built that's what they're being built out for right is is it is he's improved networks although i guess stadium at home would be pretty good yup well apple TV or sorry apple arcade you can download at the games so you know you just need a good connection down you can play online i love about arcade i didn't mention that that's smart this <hes> <hes> story i'm a fan of the idea of gun control but this is going <hes> i think a little too far according to forbes thomas brewster at forbes cbs the feds have demanded that apple and google handover the names phone numbers and other data of people who've downloaded an app an app that's designed to <hes> tuneup a gun scope <hes> it's the AT an obsidian four four application you have to have a scope manage manufactured by the company <hes> and then you can use it to <hes> get streaming video from the scope you can also use it to calibrate the scope according to the play store ten thousand users at least ten thousand users have downloaded the app on september fifth at DOJ requested information actually it's called obsidian four from american technologies network <hes> <hes> they asked for information about everybody who downloaded it ten thousand people on google play apple doesn't provide download numbers so it's not clear how many iphone people the court has yet to approve proved a man i hope they don't this is tonight the kind of scary terrifying fishing expedition if government starts saying i want to everybody who downloaded food that app that's a real problem that's a witch hard and now there is not a really good legal basis in the united states for for that <hes> so we'll watch to see <hes> what the court <hes> says in response to this application it's a little disturbing that the DOJ even even asked for it but let's hope the court hold strong and then of course the question if the court say okay what will apple google do <hes> if the court signs off on the order apple and google told the handover not just the names of anyone who's downloaded the app since two thousand seventeen but their telephone telephone numbers and their IP addresses they also want to know what uses robbing the app and now perhaps this gun sight was used in some crime we don't even know that but certainly not all of the ten successive downloaded the app or criminals exactly if if that's the case then get you know a <hes> a warrant specifically involving crime or those <hes> those things but this has happened before <hes> other with other governments <hes> an unnamed government <hes> asked apple for data for fifty eight million users of a single app they're trying to trace a terrorist so apple said no and was not compelled to do so but this is a little different it's a US courts to the US department of justice would be hard for apple to say no i think <hes> there is a <hes> another flaw in the super micro we never did hear whether bloomberg nailed it with super micro flaw a last here <hes> everybody denied it <hes> and bloomberg never really proved it -ssume that that that story was in error but this is the new one this is from wired a newly discovered vulnerabilities super micro hardware brings the threat of militias USB's to corporate servers seth it sounds like you can in effect mount a USB SP dr remotely over the internet using this flaw yes that's that's what it sounds plugging virtual thumb drive bride i i do want to throw in though that this is very very different from bloomberg's mike rose story yes that was a little bit of hardware don't want people conflating those no no no no no because even if bloomberg's big picture for that story was was wrong there's a lot of parts of it that may have been right correct and i yeah anyway <hes> sounds like you have some information on nothing nothing that's nothing that i can say at this point i it's i'll say that it's been very hard for i think everybody who's looked at last year super micro it grows story to verify what bloomberg wrote right as they wrote it nevertheless the outline of the exploit is completely credible and a supply chain shore in rising inferior the other things that people brought up last year was there are so many flaws and super micros firmware here's another one oh yeah who needs to put rice sized grain of chip on the on the motherboard we got the we got at the firm where we could mess with you and here's another positive yeah and and and that sort of the point of of this story is that <hes> it could happen been it's very enterprise focused right this is not something that the average consumer needs i have a super micro motherboard at home but i don't have to worry about that ova connected to anything yeah it's my minecraft fine craft server oh whereabouts somebody's hacking my mind is it next year bitcoin yeah everything's there so worry that's the thing you should be worried about the public facing minecraft server running on a super micro grow motherboard okay well i thought i needed zeon and a lot of ram because i want to have a beefy minecraft server the kids use it sure yeah it's all for the key for the kids is this a theory now for a while i was mining something i forgot what though but no you can't mind you can't reasonably mind any crypto these days in in your home your power bill would cost so much you need a nuclear power plant yeah yeah <hes> wa wa says oh this way stories a gift that just keeps on giving that the US by the way there was no evidence offered offered has been pressuring its employees the government has pressured the companies employs attorney against it turn against while way and is used cyberattacks to infiltrate the firm's computer systems in recent months i have to say i'm a little sympathetic to why because we've never seen any you know real evidence it felt like while way was just a scapegoat for a trade war <hes> <hes> but on the other hand maybe and we've also heard bad things about why away from others others so it's just that way has a few executives that are that have close ties to the chinese military that's what the ashes consistently says yeah that's what they've consistently said for a long time presumed problem why hasn't necessarily denied that they've denied nine that the chinese government <hes> has is running the company right so and they that this is an overreaction to you know what's there <hes> said we know that there is cyber war going on between the US and has been for a long time and if FBI agents posing wall way employees would you be surprised i wouldn't be all right let's take a break we'll wrap this thing up okay <hes> i'm just looking at some headlines to see bio hackers chase johnny the monarch with peg leg implanted heart let seth explained recess idea i don't i don't even know what those words mean i know what each individual word means but i don't know what the cows are pretty crazy story all right we'll talk about that just a second but i i have a very happy story we we hired the new guy just the other day we hired had a production assistant he's working out right he's good i like the guy i like the kid right you guys all went out drinking with him right it gets your vote of confidence you know how we found him ziprecruiter love the ziprecruiter man if you are doing hiring for a company you know that that is a tough job but it's also i mean i'll give you a lot of credits and important job shop any company our company is made up of employees good employees can help that company sore a bad employee can just drag you right down it's important this is not <hes> but it's a tough job 'cause your phone lights up your in boxes jammed and you don't know how to figure the right persons out there somewhere but how do you reach them there's so many job i gotta tell you we have just keep going back to ziprecruiter and it is the best way to hire first of all one post ziprecruiter goes to one hundred plus job boards one click the mouse including a facebook and twitter i mean just everywhere so you are getting you're getting out to the widest possible audience but that's not all aw that's not all as applications come in you can have screening questions yes no true false even essay questions in AI i couldn't answer and you can screen out people weren't right for the job narrow it down they don't come to your phone or your inbox they all go to ziprecruiter interface and then there's this new thing that i just love ziprecruiter has powerful matching technology that scans the resumes area they have on file to find people with the right experience and then invite them to to apply to your job they also analyze each one and they and they spotlight the top candidates right to the top so you don't miss a great match this works so well ziprecruiter says says with four out of five employers who post on ziprecruiter they're going to get a quality candidate within the first day in our experience is often within an hour for it's kind of an amazing thing will post at breakfast before lunch we've got three great candidates thanks to ziprecruiter i just love ziprecruiter you will too right right now you can try it free get a sense of how it will work for you at ziprecruiter dot com slash twit this is literally the smartest way to hire it's going to save you a lot of time and get you a great employee ziprecruiter dot com slash twit ziprecruiter dot com slash twit the smartest way to hire thank you ziprecruiter for support twit alright clio hackers i know what that is you're just like those guys who who put stuff in their arm chase johnny mnemonic i know what that is that's the william gibson novel and short story movie of the same name with and this is in quotes peg leg don't know what that is but i know what a peg leg is but i don't know what peg-leg is implanted hard-drive and here's a picture of them doing it so this guy got a hard drive implanted in his leg why first of all is it a spinning driver a solid state <hes> it's a it's a salt state so in the story i detail what's the one hundred gig drive in a year but it's the the the fascinating thing about it is that it's it's an it's a customized version of a raspberry ashbury pie if so the size of the drive is limited only by the your budget for micro ST guard <hes> is there an actual raspberry pi with us because that's big big i don't want that it's about the size of a mini candy bar right this small zero it's sapiro said smaller <hes> they coated in a bio safe <hes> acrylic resin he is smiling yeah and then without getting too <unk> graphic <hes> mayday subcutaneous <hes> pocket between the skin and the muscle shove the thing in and then sewed up isn't this illegal i guess practicing medicine without got a license not if you're doing it to yourself you can do it to yourself so it was allowed to guy in the picture <hes> with face mask on is the surgeon who who did it to himself and then michael laufer who is on the table with his leg wrapped <hes> also had one done <hes> so they call this implant a peg leg yes because it's the part of the pirate that's leftover and what can you do with it you can put data on it it's a it's not connected to the internet it's a mesh network a connected device <hes> so you can put whatever data you want stream data from it as long as <hes> the devices are connected directly to it so kano arief had this but he didn't wasn't blues rain yeah <hes> so is it the same idea it's the same idea except that this is a substantial piece of hardware and <hes> the johnny mnemonic story was using human wet where is that right right <hes> but the ideas that were you know that were in in china monarch forty years ago <hes> almost forty years ago are now you know starting to leak out into the real world and what we've seen is two things is one we've seen when <hes> we win there's large innovations like this the very first peg leg was was done earlier this year and was giant and it was about the size of the guys <hes> of the recipients <hes> <hes> bicep and it's huge i've seen photos and quite gory <hes> <hes> the these things get smaller so few months later they've already made one that is less than half the size <hes> i presume they're working on version three <hes> mm and the other thing we've seen is is that if these guys are doing something like this you can rest assured that tech companies that are investing in <hes> biotechnology technology are looking at how do similar things and we've seen with contact lenses we've seen <hes> you know with with all kinds of things so were you at this event i i i i hesitate to call in event but in the middle in the middle of black hat <hes> we got into a car and drove from vegas to hatch yeah yeah and so you saw this happen when you have <hes> anesthesia or did he grimm a lot there was <hes> it's got a her there was there was anesthesia of some kind of but again you have to do it to yourself like somebody can't help you well no so allow for who's the the bearded guy on the table he he had done to him he had done the surgeon did it to himself i i yeah <hes> <hes> and the and the surgeon is a guy named <hes> <hes> sorry a jeff tibbets <hes> he runs an event called <hes> grind fast <hes> which which is not about <hes> schlocky movies but <hes> the sort of nom-de-guerre of of this community are grinders people who do <hes> self insertions assertions or or other insertions of <hes> biotechnology lot of its out electro magnets and fingertips <hes> this is probably the most substantial implant never done yeah no kidding if here's a picture of the of the mini hershey's candy bar electronics and storage whatever's on the micro rusty card so it could be two terabytes now right <hes> you're gonna look back at this and say gosh i wish i could upgraded well so there's a couple couple of problems there right there's there's issues of upgrading there's also what happens if you need an MRI or or a cat scan <hes> that could be daily he said he was able to get through airport security the for the first recipient was able to get through a security in LAX and an international airport <hes> <hes> probably just went through the magnetic scanner not through <hes> sorry that went through the standard scanner not the the body millimeter wave scanner yeah we had a josh zehnder didn't we on new screensavers sometime ago he's the bio hacker who injected himself with crisper and he was selling thing yeah that's a kid he's actually now being investigated yeah <hes> but you know there's one of the interesting things about the biohacking movement is that it encompasses compasses a very wide range of technology that people are not necessarily being given access to they know that the technology exists to help them and one of the most apparent ways that this is coming across is <hes> bill is literally building <hes> artificial pancreases cool out of insulin pumps see that's great well they think this is great i mean it's you know it's it's an interesting your body i can't knock it someone in the chat room was asking whether it's battery powered yeah so the the photo that that <hes> that leo threw up <hes> shows the denies threw up the app free <hes> <hes> shows the device on a wireless battery and so when it's called a peg leg because it's in the leg right right charging right below market and when you have the battery in your pocket it turns on you don't want someone to see advice you pull the battery that's why you put it where it is is but then you have to wear cargo pants which is a crime in its own right so all right that's the thing is he actually operating self in that picture is the sergio cottrell searching the surgeon is a registered nurse nurses ran an aunt and has this cleanroom in his <hes> in his does as windows yeah but it was super interesting to see this kind of stuff happened in real time and yeah and i admire these guys they're on the fringe sometimes times i think though maybe they're a little over influenced by science fiction like this is maybe more cool to do so you remember the epi pencil story from yeah i think it was two or three years ago which was a great story was also michael laufer and admire hayworth collective because the company that made the epi pen was charging more than a thousand awesome saints crazy about so they showed how you could easily make one of your own so a lot of what he does with his with his four thieves vinegar collective is demonstrate the possibilities of technology put the instructions out there for him and then <hes> you know theoretically people will will take advantage of it <hes> <hes> there i think were they to become more popular there would be i think some ethical concerns that would have to be discussed zehnder got in trouble with selling this to the chris spurred home do it yourself DNA to the public they're not proposing that the public starting betting hard drives the defies they're putting it out there if if you want if you have the means if you have an operating theater in your garage wow yeah but the device itself runs a software software that has not only storage <hes> but <hes> messaging <hes> system and chat rooms so you can chat yeah i remember my so it's interesting that you could have one of these on airplane needed a chat room in my airplane everyone's device could connect to try to figure out away to rely on the chat room for all my best lines i've been trying to figure out a way to take the chat room with me now you know now i'm going to embed you guys in my thigh and <hes> <hes> they would love that they would love that oh they would they would hey thank you so much that's a great story and being here for the whole show whereas breath rosenblatt he is the editor in chief at the para lax yes dot com THE dash para lack the guy who has the parallel dot com on twenty five thousand dollars for the URL i said no thank you so the dash hence the dash it's twenty five thousand dollar savings folks if there's a very generous benefactor out there who is not connected to <hes> jerry <hes> germany epstein <hes> please contact me somebody said i should put my hip then they could i'd say it'd be hip to be in twitch oh boy wow the parallel great stuff really fascinating story thank you so much for being great to meet yourself yes sir <hes> thanks also to of course the technology harry mccracken he's tech editor at fast company and always a pleasure which is nice she only chilling lasted half the show before she ran screaming but it was nice that's nice to see you briefly now i'm sure she had worked it was three quarters of the three course that's great thank you so much jason heiner i'm sorry you didn't make it up let been great to see you but enjoy the event have a great time there's murray she came back back <hes> and <hes> i hope all as well anything you want to plug jason i just wanted to give a shout out to my friend and pruitt joined swift team so excited i need to see that you know of a man so much i had the life of watching college football game with aunt last night right and that was a unique experience to say the least knows a lot of fun we had a nice glass of whiskey in and talked about you actually all things thank you jason plug harry you're today which is i talked to <hes> brad smith who is the president of microsoft he has a book out about a i m social media interest immigration and all all these issues that intersect with technology and it's actually a surprisingly you could read you kind of expect <hes> something by the president of a large tech company would be boilerplate <hes> but he has interesting takes on things and <hes> is <hes> pretty open about discussing the challenges oranges microsoft has faced another figured how to deal with them in a reasonably successful fashion compared to a lot of other large tech companies brad's been around a long time it's been there since nineteen ninety ninety three i believe he's a big part of microsoft he's not a household name but <hes> if you are a <hes> a government official are at competitor or a whole bunch of other players out there he's kind of who you go tell us super influential <hes> the book is called tools and weapons the promise in parallel the digital age and you can read harry's interview with brad smith at fast company dot com it's no love later letter that book wow very interesting testing seth anything you want to plug anything you're up to do a parallel podcast working on a couple of different podcast things at the moment <hes> i'll let you know in those those <hes> actually take off we'll have you back and you can plug them yeah how about that that'd be great all right this week triangulation <hes> i'm really jealous mike a sergeant arjun got to talk to david weinberger who's really kind of legendary one of the authors of very famous authors of the clue train manifesto he's <hes> written a new book called everyday chaos technology complexity and how are thriving in the new world of possibility <hes> an aunt who saw the show said it was really good so it's on on my list of much must watch <hes> episodes of triangulation you might want to catch it at twitter dot tv slash t. r. i <hes> we do twit every sunday afternoon right after the radio show that usually run to thirty pacific five thirty eastern twenty one thirty UT see if you want to be in studio just emailed tickets twit dot TV tony came and visit us nice to have you tony some guy named ants here he's not he's kind of bigger than an ad misnamed <hes> <hes> always love having you in studio just email tickets dot tv so we're gonna make sure we got a seat for you you can also watch live stream from wherever you are anywhere in the world twit dot tv slash i live listen to we've got audio and video streams twit dot tv slash life if you're doing that the chat rooms the place to be it's right here in my thought i just kalana hard drive in my thigh just go to but you don't have you don't have to plug into my i thought he'd done twit dot TV and and <hes> join us because it's a lot of fun as family friendly it's a great place to hang out nice people in their on demand versions of everything we do available at the website twit dot TV TV or you know ask your amazon echo or your google assistant say hey echo listen to this week in tech or play this week in tech heck and you can get the most recent episode <hes> in many cases it will also play the livestream so you could say echo play twit live and it will play the livestream seek and listen in wherever you are and you can also download copies of the episode by subscribing that's probably the best way to do it in your apple podcast google podcast subscribe on youtube wherever you get your podcast podcasts casts <hes> if you subscribe we'll be sure to get it right into your device minute
Removing Human Bias from Predictive Modeling
"Welcome back to the knowledge and podcast I Rachel kipp associate editorial director of the knowledge awarded website. We're here today with Warren Statistics Professor James John This podcast is brought to you by knowledge award so much so there's just more and more interest in having automatic scoreine automatic decision making or at least partially automatic decision making and human stuff that's going on and so there's been a lot more attention lately to making sure that you know for example certain groups aren't discriminated against by these algorithms perfect can we talk a little bit about what are some of the drawbacks of this. Yeah so I think there's been a lot more attention lately about partly because things are being automated the data any bias that exists in the data those things will eventually show up in the predictions in so you know it's it's it's basically impossible to avoid that kind of stuff because they allow us to take data and then transform that data into some kind of prediction and so what happens here is you know you take information on a bunch of people history of interaction with the court systems or history of interaction with police and so forth and so the algorithms in their predictions can kind of bake in all of this fend James thanks for being here thanks Rachel I'm happy to be here so predictive modeling is becoming an increasingly popular way to assist human decision makers but it's not is that these algorithms they're trained on data that is found in the real world that data can be really the byproduct of say this person even so much the algorithm itself it's that you know algorithms and especially in machine learning and Statistics Algorithms are things that allow us to take inputs and produce outputs there's a lot of use of algorithms for things like you know who will Y- need to post bail to get out of the data that we care about in these areas as data we find the real world and so in this paper you focus on recidivism or pupils likelihood to commit a crime after they've been released from jail pretrial versus you know who who will just be let out on their own reconnaissance for example and that the heart of this is this idea of risk assessment in and try you know for example is the algorithm less accurate for certain groups or is the algorithm recommending that you know minorities are released left less often prison and what did you do in this paper in terms of that problem yeah so so one thing I should say is that in this field you know in what you've observed them doing so for example you would take information on people and whether they showed up to the court dates and then you have some kind of algorithm and you use all that historical data airmont that data is the result of humans interacting with one another and so all of the kind of you know biopsies that are baked into to all of us and we're all imperfect those things the people to train the algorithm like basically learn its parameters and but the the problem there is that that data is not you know the result of some laboratory white people for example so those are the kinds of things that people pay a lot of attention to and and there was a particular literature on this where we were operating when we sort of thought of writing this paper so just decided that an algorithm is created by a human so humans are bringing all of their bio cease to bear when they're feeding the algorithm will that's part of it but actually the the real thing is testicle parody or demographic parody and that's the idea that you know you would have certain protected groups okay so in those those protected groups are protected variables might be things the area that I've been interested in this is a lot of work that I do with my wife actually which is kind of fun the the area that I've been interested in is especially criminal justice in in criminal justice what we have been trying to do I guess is to create a fair algorithm nobody agrees on what that is okay so there are lots of different notions of affair algorithm like sex or race or something like that and what we want what what are sort of notion of fairness is is that the predictions of the algorithm sort of groupwise don't differ by race or they don't differ by by by by sex and what that means and to see you know who is most likely for example to show up to their court dates and so the pro the problems are at least you know potential problems with this are you know there are these different notions out there can I like produce a method that people could use if they wanted to go with this notion so there's this notion called but just your age that's just a number and so things like that it was harder to do it was harder to do lots of variable so few live statistically is that when you make the predictions there's like no information on race left in the prediction okay and what our paper is really doing is it's it's a method for training algorithm and now they have this data that you know we're not the first one to have done something like this we were just following on you know this stream of research over the last few years The the the word for a lot of what people were able to do is if you had like you know what we call categorical variables then everything would work out fine and what we set out to do was taking some data and removing all the information about race from the data error about sex or whatever you're protected variables are and then handing that data off to anybody who wants to I uses that you've repaired the data okay so we just have a kind of a more well I think maybe a more sort of flexible general way of repairing data so what's fair and right and so that I almost think of that as a philosophical question I serving of of my role as a statistician or machine learning person as wanted to kind of repair the data so that it removed information on lots and lots of variables that was harder and so our method is basically designed to make that kind of thing possible post before yeah sure so that that's right so that that's that's definitely I think pretty easy to talk about so what have been proposed before strip out the information on the protected variables and then you go to the next variable and then you do that you use this the first variable repaired and the protected variables to remove the infant if literature so once you're able to do that what was the result yes so the result is right so again you know we're we're not exactly trying to take a stand just to say like look we want something that works no matter what it is okay so one of the things that people would have trouble with is if you had like a numeric variables all right so something like your age not rounded to the nearest all and I'd say I guess the way it works how can I explain this really quickly is just that you sorta go through one variable at a time you look at all the other variables at least in the example that we have and data set that we're working with you can see that after you use our our method on the data that there really is not any information about the about the protected variables and you sort of go down the list doing that it's similar to things that people have used in areas like privacy and so forth like if you wanted to be able to release protected variables left and we have sort of statistical tests for example to see you know whether there's information about a particular variable sitting in a data set and it sort of passes all of those the data set and it and not be able to identify certain things about or characteristics of people in the data set how would you do that so it it has relationships to that anything that you produce with it later it's not going to have any information about this protected variables anymore can check a little bit more about how does this work and a little bit about how it's been different from what has been mystical tests and so you know that's not a certainty that we've definitely removed all information but you know it empirically it seems to work pretty well and we have some theory about how on what fairness is we sort of picked this one notion and we wanted to to do you know an algorithm for it and and I think the result was that the hour the Moore's pretty well and visit them you're gonNA find really big differences by race and certainly by other variables as well you're gonNA find really big differences group wise flagged as high risk that kind of thing and so after after removing a running our methadone the data those distributions the distributions of the courtesy of the things that you train on these data's basically the same so we lost almost no accuracy but we were able to kind of you know pretty much equalize things by race and so that how it works also you actually did look at this in terms of resident recidivism rates and predicting somebody's likelihood to reoffend yeah that's right and so what what you can find you know there's this really if modeling and a lot of them are trying to find a way to do exactly what you're doing so how can this be applied I guess beyond criminal justice to other industries as well addictions so like you know how the predictions look across all the people in the data set those things have basically look very very similar by race and not only that but the overall remaining information behind that you're that you can have after you've removed those correlations and so what you can see is if you just naively take the data and you try to predict of actually with my former PhD advisor we now have access to a much bigger criminal justice data set and you know we're finding lots of interesting things with this data including work on demographic parody now there are lots of other notions of fairness and what's really interesting is that you know through sort of a small grant that my my wife and I you know the question that we sort of have now is you know scaling it up to lots of predictors and we can do it with a dozen the model right it's just that all the data that you do use this like correlated with that in so our procedure is trying to wipe out those correlations while leaving all of the well used data set and what you can find is that you know if you use this data set just as is and I want to be really clear here it's not like anybody's putting a race variable in scene areas now and they'll be relevant to to real world stuff which is I think what what we're excited about James thanks so much for being with US thank you Rachel it was fun do this to them and what you get out the other side is something that will have removed the information about the variables he wanted to get rid of information about okay so it's you know you could use the yes I think that that was one of the things that we were aiming for is that this method is totally general like you take these you know what you call features or predictors or whatever and we're we're able to accomplish this demographic parody so bias algorithms it's not just a major issue in the criminal justice space lot of industries or trying to use pretty eligible Morton please visit knowledge dot Lorden Dot U. Penn Dot Edu listen in lots of areas you could use it in credit scoring if you want people probably owned but you could do that and so anyone who wants to to sort of adopt something but you know sometimes people have hundreds or thousands and so that's kind of a future work type of thing are there other feature lines for the research yeah other than that bad I mean I think there are a lot of interesting things going on in this area now and I tend to be driven more by the application than by like you know I don't want to just say like oh I'm going in you know how likely people are to you know are the in in the distribution of predictions like you know how many people are are you can find olive knowledge awards articles podcast and more on our website which is knowledge dot Wharton Dot upenn dot. Edu You can find all of our podcasts on Apple podcast you're achieve this demographic parody notion they can do that with with our procedure and so you know we think it's broadly useful I think that the the we thought was really a a pretty good selling point of this is that overall like the predictions are still quite good well there is good as they can be on the data but a sort of the things you find with real data right the data are a mess. We're trying to understand what the different variables mean there are all kinds of things going on about how people record the data and how that's changed over time throw he's here to talk to us about his paper which looks at creating an algorithm for removing sensitive information in predicting recidivism or how likely a criminal is to read it and so you know by being driven by that application and you know trying to sort of do good modeling with that data I think it's going to open up a lot more interest APP or your
172 Launching the Cyber Intelligence News Site The Record by Recorded Future
"This is recorded future in five threat intelligence for cyber security. Hello everyone and welcome to episode one, hundred, seventy, two of the recorded future podcast I'm Dave bittner from the cyber wire recorded future recently announced the launch of a new cyber intelligence new site called the record by recorded future. The publication aims to fill the gap between fast-breaking headlines and long lead research with expertly sourced reporting and analysis our guest. This week is the editorial director of the record Adam Jonoski. He shares his background in Cybersecurity privacy and technology journalism including prestigious publications like The Wall Street Journal he shares his aspirations for where he and his colleagues planned to take the record as well as his insights on the state of cybersecurity journalism stay with us. My whole career has been in journalism I started that at her of my college newspaper immediately came to new. York to. Intern I for the Wall Street Journal and then Bloomberg. News. Rating about startups and a little bit of technology and I got completely lucky with those positions and those beats. Him at the time startups where really starting to catch fire facebook lays in the news for. Only it's launched, but it's Very, high profile, public offering. So after covering startups That kind of was able to morph into cyber security. When the Wall Street Journal was launching more cyber coverage, they were hiring three cyber-security reporters dedicated to the beat. And I've been I've been writing about the topic ever since then for the past four years. And most recently had left the Wall Street Journal to join a publication that launch rate before the pandemic started called protocol. which was not the best timing to launch a publication. But. Yeah. No I'm reporting about cybersecurity for this new publication. The record which recorded future is launching by the time. This podcast will hopefully already be launched and I'm very excited about it. Yeah. Well, we're going to dig into some of the details about the record in a little bit but before we get to that and I'm curious we can you can you give us some insights on what it's like being a journalist on the cybersecurity beat what was that like for you shifting to that topic getting up to speed and and covering the folks who are doing their day to day business in that part of the world what was that experience like for you? Yeah. Absolutely. The topic has probably one of the steepest learning curves in. Any journalistic discipline. As I mentioned, my background is not in computer science. I did not know how to Code I didn't really know anything about state-sponsored hackers or TPS or all jargon that. Is Sort of anyone that you talked to in the industry. Uses. Like second nature or a second language for me. It was a very quick learning curve where I had to catch myself and I think maybe six months after I started covering the topic that was when the world was rocked by Vajna cry and then soon after not. Quickly that was that was kind of a trial by fire. So. Like having the resources in the backing of an organization with the the reputation of the Wall Street Journal I, mean that must have been a place to to have surround you. It was. It's it's a pretty. humbling experience when you're just out of college, you call up. You Know A. Like a CEO who's at the top of their game or a cybersecurity analyst that everyone respects and here you know twenty two year old who has no idea about anything in the industry and you and you say like, I'm I'm a reporter from the Wall Street Journal can you help explain this very basic topic for me and there they make themselves available? So. It's it's very. Nice luxury to have. Definitely when you're starting to cover something in the Wall Street Journal, itself is one of the best organizations in terms of the journalistic expertise that they have in house just being able to sit. A couple desks away from Pulitzer Prize winners or heard you know. John. Kerry who is Not. Too Far Away from from where I sat and During my time there, he wrote the book bad blood. I'm was this all over the news so it's it's just a humbling experience to be around literally thousands of journalists to are reporting about the biggest stories of the day. What what's your? What are your thoughts in terms of of the state of things when it comes to journalism covering cybersecurity in general, you know the spectrum of the types of coverage that you've seen. Do you have any thoughts on that? Yeah I. Think we're kind of at a a real inflection point where a lot of not only journalistic organizations but also the audience. Is Waking Up to the fact that we're in a different time when it comes to cybersecurity that this is a topic that affects not just to every organization of every industry, but it affects. Every government agency, it affects individuals even your grandmother who might not have any idea how they used. Basic Internet. Applications noticed that hackers trying to get her data. And so I think that I think it's a time where a lot of there's a need for more cyber security news need for more informed and educated cybersecurity journalists. I think it's really good time to be covering the industry and in terms of just answer your question bit more specifically about. Sort of wound scape. Healthy spot where some publications are focused on. The hackers, they take a look at specific events and get really detailed technical and other publications focusing on breaches news since there's a time of news with this topic I don't think that there are that many publications that sorted filled the gap to. Be Informative. Towards like sort of A. Average cyber security professional or somebody who has an interest in the topic, but isn't an expert in it So I think there's a lot of room there for extra coverage. Well, let's dig into your efforts with recorded future and the launch of the record Give us some of the background here. What prompted the creation of this new publication? I got of lucky because it was something that the people at recorded future I've been planning on for a while. And was just fortunate enough that they. Pulled me into Ideas that recorded future company that collects Cyber Security Intelligence and threat intelligence. From across not only Internet but the dark web. Analytic reports. They had this vision of. Creating new site that would use the insights gained from the platform that it has but also from other vendors from industries that are fighting these battles every day from government agencies to just bring it all together. and. Give Cyber security analysts, and SEASO's. and other executives. The kind of news and insights that can help them do their job. Can you give us some insights on what we might expect I mean how how this is going to expand upon the types of things that people are familiar with from record future. Already, you know the those threatened Ellen's fees, those sorts of insights How is this going to enhance those things? Yeah I think the biggest difference is GonNa be the format it's GonNa be a news publication true and true. So we're going to start with a website that has Multiple stories every week. And then do newsletters do podcasts I'm not. I'm not going to compete with you though. We're GONNA. We have. We have plans to You know turned it into a news empire in a similar way I think the thinking goes. This is that if you look back at like something like Bloomberg thirty, five years ago when they had. A software company that was collecting market intelligence, and they had the brilliant idea to have hire reporters into start. Minds of that intelligence and. Turn it into the news that that was actually there all along. And they've built that into an organization with now more than thousand journalists across the world. Are Ambitions hard quite that high but the same sort of evolution and the same thinking I think is something that is GonNa. Inform growth. And what have been you know you're marching orders. Tasked you with in terms of being a a traditional journalist and melting your skills, your expertise with the types of information that recorded futures able to provide with their capabilities What sorts of things are you looking forward to being able to do? Well, I think that right now the marching orders are that they want it to be independent they want it to be A media organization where we're not afraid to. Publish research from other companies and we're not afraid to. Go Out and talk to ceases at. Any you any sort of enterprise whether it's you know a technology company or something totally different like an infrastructure company. But the mission is to just make sure that we're covering. The cybersecurity stories that. We think professionals should be paying attention to and. Trying. To sort of tell the stories in a way that really can help people do their jobs and stay informed. I'm wondering if you have any advice or tips for the folks who are out there who are consuming cybersecurity news and as someone who's been on the other side of it, writing it, creating it doing the research you know putting that that shoe leather out on the street as it were Any suggestions for the best way for people to approach reading the stories that are out there. That's a great question. and. I guess that it's also one that question that I ask myself all the time too because there's a lot of different publications out there. A lot of different information it's hard to find. Sources that are both thorough, the publishing things at irregular credence but also. Understandable and reliable. And I think the only site that I can really give is. To, understand that for the most part people are writing about Cybersecurity, her first and foremost. They're not cybersecurity experts they might be you know they might not have a background in computer engineering. So it's important to take everything with kind of a grain of salt and to read closely at where they're getting their information. Are they saying their sources? What are the sources are? Is it government data? Is it from? Different companies or is it doesn't seem to really come from anywhere trusted And also just the individuals that they quote are they anonymous and if they are anonymous than giving a good reason why they're anonymous are they trying to give you as much information about them as they can? And if they're named than. Where are they coming from and do they have thirty to? Talk about the topics and A. Way that really gives it justice. I. Think I, think the big. Thing that you learned in journalism is never rely on just one source of information, and that's especially true when it comes to something as complex as cyber security that you need to. If you have one piece of data that it's best to run it by as many people as as possible and to make sure that your analysis of it is something that is accurate to best of your knowledge. Our thanks to recorded futures Adam Jonoski for joining us the news cyber intelligence new site is titled The record. You can find it at the record dot media. Don't forget to sign up for the recorded future cyber daily email where everyday you'll receive the top results for trending technical indicators that are crossing the web cyber news targeted industries, threat actors, exploited vulnerabilities, malware, suspicious Ip addresses, and much more. You can find that at recorded future dot com slash Intel we hope you've enjoyed the show and that you'll subscribe and help spread the word among your colleagues and online. The recorded future podcast production team includes coordinating producer Caitlyn Mattingly Executive Producer Greg Barrett, the show is produced by the cyber wire with executive editor Peter. Kilby and I'm Dave Bittner. Thanks for listening.
Are Pedi Bubbles the Future of Post-pandemic Beauty?
"Hey everyone. This is the art beat podcast where we tell the real truth about the fake shit. We are unsponsored, unbranded and quite frankly unafraid to ask the questions. You want to know to get down to the bottom of things. Thank you so much for joining us today. I have a fabulous fabulous co host. Faith Sh- way. She's the editorial director of Birdie Day. Thank you so much for being here today. Thank you so much for having me. I am so excited. This is actually my first podcasts experience so I believe that virginity. ooh, hey girl ball! Try to make it I'll try to make it feel good. Not so painful. The. It's funny, though because I feel like birdies, such like a popular site and magazine PODCAST, I, know might just be. Something is to come, so will well as a trial run, maybe but okay. I didn't say anything though you didn't hear me Gotcha while he needed any help. You know who to call out so rudely, so let's talk about like. How are you holding up? I know you're like right. Brooklyn correct I'm on the upper says we're both here on the East Coast I. Feel we have made it through. The Madness but man it's it's continuing on in the rest of the country. No, it's actually crazy, so I have been here the whole time I've been guess. Yeah I, feel like we're like bonded like all the people who have been in New York the entire time like not left for anywhere else like we're now forever bonded by this like crazy experience. That's happened in the past four months. You know in some ways. It's like I try to look. I don't know about both my my husband and I had it. We got it right when. March seventeenth we didn't know it. We were like a little bit of a cold, and then we lost her since of smell. And taste for three weeks but I feel like you know I'm trying to look at the positive side of things, and in some ways like you just said it's brought. People together It is a terrible awful sickness, so for anybody who's going to and not trying to make light of this, but you know. I think that there have been wonderful things to come out of it right like taking a little bit of a break from. Getting dressed up getting to see people more via virtual. I didn't hurt on real pants or real close until probably. Three weeks ago and like outgrew out. Do like a nice top for is in meeting, and then like spots on the bottom, or just like no bottom. Short. Fabulous where here? That's an amazing outfit. I feel like it's going to trickle over into fashion because so many of my friends and I talk. Like we dress for comfort now. I can't imagine putting on lake heels. Like I don't even know what my foot would do if I tried to put a heel, so it's funny that you bring that up. first of all I have dressed for comfort ever since like when they came out, and they said F Leisure Term like I started to cry. Because I was so excited. Any day that I can spend a civil. Yeah any day can spend it in elastic waistband is a good day for me gloriously. Veils yet now. Now. I just I WANNA be in I still WANNA be in a sweat suit. All Day I had like four sweatsuits that I ordered rotated between for like four months where Tommy Gimme the dirt, Honestly A. Lake Day? The Best Cuba's most. Stuff and you're not like sending time. They have all different colors all different sizes, so you can buy four sweatsuits and be like wow. I'm set. And they're all you. I ordered this. neon green. It's been a little bit too hot to wear but from Amazon. Because it came from China, but was music, twenty something dollars so freaking cute, a neon green tracksuit with black pants that have like a glitter stripe down them. Wow, that's honestly I. also love that. You bought that from Amazon and like. Don't sleep on the Amazon. Fashion Finance I have a friend who always looks amazing and. He buys his stuff on Amazon, his like crazy, like hot pink leotards on like I'm always just like you look fabulous. Is that like why? Excel and he's like I got on Amazon. It's like it's. Why don't you go to Amazon Dot Com? You know and I think these days it's really to. Doing me wrong I love having like a really beautiful staple and investment piece. My I was like a a beautiful Gucci. Belt because I was like. I haven't bought anything in a while, right. then. It's like for so many things you can dress it up and your fun, and you're right. Amazon is great. The reviews on Amazon, too. Because, you can just see if it's actually good or not. And people have no problem like ripping something apart and I'm telling you got this really adorable jumpsuit twenty eight dollars. Raising I think Amazon Yeah I. think that is like a hidden secret like Amazon's fashion selection like you can buy your groceries there. You can buy books there, and you can buy your next like outfit there, so and let's be honest to. You can get like all the things that you're too embarrassed to go into the store like you can order lube free there, which right like all the things that you're like I? Don't know to say my monster. I used my parents Amazon prime account. I'm to lake cheap to like. Get my own guys in there like just lose our mind, but then like sometimes I need to buy things, and in the back of my mind. I'm like my mom is going to get a notification that like this ship and I'm just saying you know what it's okay. I think it's like again. I'd rather get the two day shipping. Mob know about like whatever. It's cool I quit. School! Oh my gosh. This is so much fun, you know. I I was introduced to you by way of this incredible article about talking about. What beauty and what the beauty industry is GonNa look like host pandemic and you know I feel like we've just had some of. This thrown down our throats, but you know things change every day and I know here in New York. We finally just got the salons to open back up. Have you been! I have not. I was supposed to go get my nails done this weekend and I was kind of looking forward to the experience because. Everything is just so different so I had a friend who said she got her nails done, and it's just like flexi glass for the manicure. And then she said the craziest thing where she got a pedicure, and she said a bubble came down from the ceiling, and like enclosed her fully suggest her feet sticking out. And like literally, and I was like wait I'm trying to picture this and was like no like everyone who was getting a pedicure within a bubble. Liederman was it? Did you have to wear a mask with the bubble? Yeah I, think she. You have to wear mound crime. Though I don't know I really wish she had gotten a photo of that because. I. Feel like that would kind of envisioning. Have you ever seen like those plastic umbrellas that comedown people like the bell umbrellas? That's kind of what I'm picturing. It's really crazy, unlike think it's pretty. Amazing To think about the links that people will go to like. Get their beauty treatments I think. Yeah I finally went and got my hair don. Was Howard. It it was it was good. I went and I got Carrollton. Damascus was probably helpful, but. I hate wearing masks. I will do it everywhere religiously, but I don't think anybody likes it now you can't. Tough because I haven't got my nails done, they're still. I haven't gotten a pedicure contemplating it for this weekend, but kind of like. Let me just ride this out a little bit. I. Need a pedicure so bad, but It's it's really scary. Actually I actually don't want to subject anyone to like what might be like. I needed excavator the by the way. So to products that I will share with you. One is called a skin. Skin Integra. Amazon purchase it is a lotion that was developed for people That I believe developed for diabetics soon. Their skin cracks can actually be really dangerous for your heels if your heels cracked and kind of gross. It's amazing. The criminal twenty bucks, but a little bit goes a long way, and you put it on at night. It is like my my petty and a bottle for for real okay skin Integra. Yeah, one I loved his on yeah. I'M GONNA. Talk about on. Our Amazon sponsoring this episode. No and that's what I said. We're not brandon. I talked about this stuff, but that's why I love it. They're definitely not WE JUST YOU Know! It's really crazy I so I obviously is not my natural hair color, so you could tell but I hadn't been able to get my roots done, and when you're platinum, you're supposed to go every six weeks. Like by the time I ended up like having my colors. Come to me. And it was like I felt like I felt reborn like I laughed. I I should show you the before after photos because my roots were down to hear my heroes like Orange Yeah I really just felt like a different person like when I left and I think that's like people trivialize. Ud, and of course, it's like you know it's a privilege to be able to go get treatments, but like it really affects how you feel i. mean on this show. We don't trivialize beauty, and we celebrate beauty and look. I, don't think there's very few people who don't realize like pampering experience that I love you know in the new language of today. Self Care is not selfish, right? We do these things right now. I feel like anything that can bring a little bit of joy to our lives, which you know not just over dramatic, but this has been a tough tough tough time living in these crazy times. We celebrate that here, but I gotta see your nails look fabulous. Oh my Gosh! Okay, so one thing that I've really picked up in quarantine is doing my own nails I. Know having over they look phenomenal. Okay, so there's this tool that I use It's from all of in June, and they have this little like a little rubber topper and stick it on any Pasha fits on top of any nail Polish, and instead of like holding your nail Polish like you would normally, which makes it kind of like hard to paint this little rubber round thing you like. Hold it like this, so you're painting like this instead of like. I need to like. Show it to you. I can't remember exactly what it's called, but it's really helped me a lot. Can you get it on Amazon? You can't get it on Amazon. I'll have to tell Sarah. She is making a huge mistake missing a huge market. But yeah, and I also took a virtual like zoom manicure class as like an event in the media new, so this brand called Sundays on. They're doing like virtual manicure clauses, and it was the first like zoom of bent I went to and probably one of the most enjoyable ones, because it was just one of their manicurist. She had like a camera on her face in camera. That was like I. Don't know how she did this, but that was like also like a of sure. Like doing her stuff. They mailed you the Kip for so you could follow along and like I learned so much, and now I'm basically a manicurist i. mean you really are there? Look Phenomenal I. think that an like cooking are probably might choose skills that I picked up i. mean skills is a very loose I got my skill that I picked during quarantine. My husband and I picked a baking, but when I say, we picked the baking, we went and we picked up the box of cake mix. 'cause somebody's like. What, kind of cake remixing like carrot cake? Like what do you put in it? As I think it's three eggs. AVOI- All Right. What do you mean? Of Cooking. The baking kids are like the best because you still feel so proud and like you didn't have to violate forty different ingredients. You. Do you think like as being a little bit more serious? Though because there are certain things that are are changing? Like for example, shopping right, which hasn't really hit its full. Because, we can't really go in stores. LOON! There's still a lot of sorts especially here. That are shot. But you know I was thinking the other day like I used to love to go to Sephora or ULTA and. Browse and like. Try stuff fine. Is that like? So it's not going to be a thing anymore. like Sephora and both said that they're like not doing testers. They're really encouraging. People to Lake have consultations before they go into the story so that literally walk in, and you're there to pick up the product. which is so sad. Because I feel like so much of the retail experiences like. In, high school, I would just go into Sephora and like put on makeup with literally no intention of buying anything like I would just go into Sephora unlike do my whole face, but I think those part of their model was like. Hey, like starbucks. starbucks is like come in, hang out here. You can take eventually. You're probably GONNA buy a cup of coffee or a snack or something -actly and to force anything. Come in, try this because you know what at some point, you're probably GONNA say. Oh I really like that and blue go in and purchase something so that whole aspect of like really playing with our makeup. Do you think that's just gone or do you think that maybe brands will have to fort like reinvent? The way that they allow for sampling. Yeah, I definitely think that. It's going to be different on sampling like a really good. Point because I think like it's probably going to be a lot more brands mailing samples out ya online stuff like feeling out quizzes going online putting in your skin type, and the brand will be like great like here's what we recommend Obviously, it's just like so not the same thing I'd like going into a store and picking them out yourself but. The future retail is. Is really crazy. It's it's weird to think about like these like it's. Everything's going to feel a lot more clinical from what I've heard like even salon experience like you know like usually you go in I want to hear about your experience actually because I've only been like asking her silence friends. But like what was it like for you? When you finally went in and guarded treatment well, I love to go in and like. Zine and like kind of not that I like to sit here writing room forever, but. They picked up three ING. You order food like you feel like you're in it for the day like you're there like be pampered. I walked in was plastic covered I got my temperature Deacon, and then the mastery over and look. It was nice because there is zero waiting. It was like he was your point time. You're here on time going to get shampooed. Never GonNa go to this area, but no water. No nothing everybody's wearing a mask the whole time. Time so crazy from a hairstylist perspective. I've talked to people who said you know in the past they were able to see multiple clients at once in their assistant was helping them, and now that rhino like minimize the number of people in this lawn so literally they're seeing like a third or half of the clients that they usually are able to because they have to be fully focused on them the whole time. Yeah, so I think that's just like yeah, but. Same with like like skin, care treatments. I actually got some really. Interesting TV from this plastic surgeon. Dr Liana. She's like incredible. I was asking her because. Doing the story I was like what like what are germs in plastic surgeons doing differently now I also think it's just so funny that like I mean it's funny, but like no one will stop women from like getting their boat talks like a pandemic will not. Status Standing appointment IDA standing appointment. Throughout the entire Eddie kept getting pushed back, but I was just put me in for the next one camps, getting pushed back fine, and I walked nine blocks to go to my dermatologist. Who is in Washington Square and on the upper east side. It was great. It was my exercise and I stopped at my dentist on the way there. Oh. My God teeth cleaning and then walked another forty blocks to go. Get my boat talks really jealous. I mean your skin looks amazing. With telling me like people were still does virtue. It's like my clients were like offering to pay me like under the table to like come to their house, it and I was like yeah. I mean and then she went outside. She says she was saying that. Like the actual number of like treatments have gone up because people now everyone's wearing masks, though it's like not as noticeable that you're like getting work done, and also because Corn Dean like you're not out in a bow as much shows like actually the perfect time to like. Get surgery that you've been wanting well funny. You should mention it because by the time this airs. I will be in recovery for something. Not saying what just yet you will have to wait and listened to next week's PUTT. Okay well, that's actually amazing. Because it is, it is the perfect time. Yeah, while I decided. It wasn't so much like my. My my own personal job is awesome They're very understanding. If I needed to take off what I'm having done I need somebody around to help me. That's all I'm GONNA say so. It's a pretty you know. It's not like just a little little this little of that. It's a own. Substantial. Surgery Cosmetic Surgery and My husband being home. I was like what time exactly? You're basically a live in nurse. Plus I can't wait to be like on planet. Whatever for three days 'cause? They were like you're going to? You're going to need some pretty heavy painkillers and I was like. And then when? I say no. I mean mazing for men to just like emerge from corn like quarantine, ending emerging like looking. I mean I. Feel like people I you know at this point and I'm so honest about it because that's what we do here. But I did have a girlfriend who went and got light. Boehner boobs done by good right the last day in DC before they shut something down and I was like Oh. Hugh are going to look so good. Everybody's GonNa. Come out because I don't think she's telling anybody and like they're going to be like. You know we're all gonna come out like our pants. Don't hit us and she's GonNa. Be like wait. You're so right. There's choose. People in quarantine, people who worked on? and. Come out looking like amazing, and then like the people who don't who have like quarantine. Herod grown out now like yeah, well then. I'd like to say there is a third group to that people who were like Oh, my God I'm just going to eat and drink and do whatever I want full part and then realized that I can just buy it back. I can pay to undo all that I did. Not Paying that money account. When it comes sick old. Sherry. Appreciate that you're you're like so upfront and open about it and I. think that's something like we are always like reaching thirty two where there is no like Shamar stigma like you know like everyone is getting stuff done. Yeah and you know I? Think it's like in the right hands of us for the right reasons, I actually have a doctor. Coming on were interviewing to talk about. Specific surgery in general has a stigma of like. Oh, you must be really insecure. You might not feel no. You must not feel good about yourself in quite the contrary. It's like you know what I love myself and I wanna live my bestself and. I'm not talking about people who do this extreme makeovers, although Thatcher saying you know own it. That like a little a little of that like why? Why not? You celebrate what what we can do. cosmetically and with products in fashion and. I know it's actually I think so. We auto is also telling me like the. Back that we're like staring into zoom calls now. Joe, much more in staring into our own faces like she's like bats, making people want to come in through stuff, too, because they're like. Wait what my face looks like while in masks, knee Israel like that is a real thing I've started getting it now that it's summer, but little inside tip. Gathering light, If you're answering day, get a ring light A. YOU'RE GONNA look. We're going to go from zero to hero. Off Right, now it's like. A eighteen heads race allston. You're so right. Does. Yeah, it's so crazy I. Good lighting, a ring or a ring light like you have to have one or the other. Absolutely so okay I know. We were talking about like how things are different and how brands going to change to feel like there's any brands that are like really getting it right right now, That's a really good question. You mean in terms of like. Owning up to like what has been happening and they're like. Yeah, it's like learning how to make the shift like I think that. I I'm seeing on a whole restaurants bars My Grocery, store and certainly the nail salons. Having to reinvent the way that they do business and from doing floor decals to the Plexiglas I knew that there are certain clothing brands who it's a you can come in and try something on, and then it doesn't go back out on the shelf. It goes in to be dry cleaned which I can't imagine that expense. Is there anything you've seen like in the beauty industry that they're like? Wow, that's really and if not, it's cool to say you know what not yet. Yeah, I mean I definitely think like like Sundays the now salon that I mentioned. I feel like it's a good one. Because like they first of all, it's like so many manicures are out of work. Will hope wait a lot of them are getting their. Their jobs back now, but before they were out of work and I feel like the way that they were doing. These virtual manicure classes was really interesting because that money was going to the manicurist. So there is supporting their staff and kind of like rolling with the punches of being like okay, you're not able to come in and get your nails done, but like here's like is fun experience where you can kind of teach yourself while still like you know the proceeds benefiting someone who might be out of a job. Know what that was like a really interesting. Good it but it's just interesting to see so I honestly think that. The pandemic will even change the way that you d brands like approach, marketing and approach social media because it's like. People want don't want like first of all. They weren't able to shoot like no one was able to shoot anything for a really long time so like we're seeing like glossy like product images that were used to seeing like swapped out for like more like a Lo fi like iphone field, but like people seem to be really responding to it to which I think is interesting, and I think that it's something that brands like take into consideration at least for Birdie especially like I don't know we. We see just as much engagement on like a photo that we shot ourselves versus like a photo that we shot like super produce like in Studio, which obviously those images have so much value, but it's almost just like. Oh, like people are responding to like they want real nece. They WANNA see. Real is a I love seeing all of my news reporters like seeing them in their home. All my Gosh, wait also. Can we talk about like just seeing someone in their homes, and like being like? Wow, it can tell so much about you from your zoom background. I was GONNA say your background is very beautifully setup. Thank you. Yeah, you have a nice assortment of. Their they? Have obsessed with. And my husband travel so there we go on see that's perfect. I have a lamp and then like a huge thing of beauty products jewelry that no one wants to say well. I want to be really honest When we started this show like a year ago. And I this bookshelf looked like it was just the dumping ground for everything. Sad thing is is it took me like legit a full four hours to like? Per, dial that like trump style your background? Some of my coworkers like people I. See on like that is true perfect of. Like. That's not your actual living. My husband will come home and put things on there and I'm like. You're like no this. Perfectly curated to reflect exactly who I. Know. We are messy as can be. Everything here I got my vitamin. C, we, we are up to it here, so faith you know. This is a lot of fun. So, so, is there anything right now that you're working on the? You're excited about that. We should be looking for with Birdie. Yeah, of course I'm so much, so we are actually working on a big initiative that we're. It's on initiative. It's a big moment for us that we're launching. Probably in September, which will be really exciting I for US I? Don't think I can say anything else but then there's like. Oh, my gosh. I. Feel like I'm not allowed to talk about any of these things, but we'll come back on and talk about it when it does your. Promise more than happy to but yes and then. Yet there's just too much, but yet we're. It's so weird honestly like. I also feel like. Quarantine has made everyone realize that. Yes, we can do everything from home, and it's been a learning experience for us for sure because all these things that we were kind of like. Oh, like we need a full cast and crew to shoot this like we have a video series on Social Clara like someone getting a hair transformation will cost in crew like full day of shooting. And then we started doing these at home versions wear. Wear, we would just like. Give instructions to the hairstylist. They would either do it themselves and like one of them sunnybrook. She liked cut her husband's hair and like talk to do it in. It's like those videos got like justice much engagement where justice helpful, so it's just interesting to see how just rolling with the punches. We are in like I said if you can look at. This is like a little bit of A time to reflect and take pause, and like almost like one of my girlfriends was like Oh. We're not going to be able to do a big. Girl, summer vacation trip innocent, but this is kind of if you look at in some ways been like a little bit of a vacation from that need to constantly go here and be here and be seen in this and. Dress up. No. There's like no foam anymore. which is such a relief and I feel like New York is like the city of Foam Oh. Yeah, and don't kid yourself girl. That's it's going to be back and by the way I work in video too so. Does video my video people out there. Media's supposed to open soon, and that's going to be back to because you know what there is a difference I think that everybody's totally cool with like the you know. Here's my camp here. Zoom zoom forever and it works right. It's about the message, but we all do love this really beautifully produced. You know in EA does its product thing. Are you guys going to be? You have like you have to shoo. Socially distant. Without me. We are socially distant doing it. You mean like for video production you know. I haven't even right now. Honestly, none of the people that I work with are ready to do that. So I'm sure I'm sure that there will be The great thing about humans we will find a way to persevere will find a way to get through it. We'll find a way to make it work. Absolutely and in the meantime, everyone just needs to wear their mouths and work on their I make up game because it's the perfect time. because. Because that's what we got Thank you so much faith for doing this and we're going to have you back on in September. I will have a big. Yes, we will have outdo out. Bring visuals like we'll be I'll give you the whole stoop you heard of. and. People want to find out more about you. If they WANNA read. The magazine's the best place to do that. I'M BIRDIE DOT COM. Obviously we showcase offering stories features interviews. Product reviews anything, beauty and health wellness. You'll find bear. Also our instagram at Birdie beauty, and then my personal instagram is at faith underscore X., U. E.. Daughter. Yes I know. Great? You've been doing well in quarantine. Beauty. Thank you so much for being with us today or is, thank you so much for having me. This is so fun. It was fun of anybody at home wants to pass any questions to us to ask the faith. You can always do that. Hello, at ARPITA PODCAST DOT, com you can find, doesn't instagram and facebook and Youtube at art podcast, and as always we will see you next Tuesday by. Fine.
75 per cent of UK ad agencies plan to spend more money on podcasts
"From radio days africa in johannesburg south africa the latest from pod news dot net seventy five percent of uk advertising agencies plan to spend more input constant over the next twelve months that's according to new research from banks digital audio is a whole including music services will see eighty five percent of agencies spending more guy rise is just step away from his role as host and editorial director of the ted radio hour we linked to the job advisement his replacement in pulp news today he looks back at seven years of hosting the show only npr website and he's also just been announced as a keynote speaker podcast movements in august mentioned yesterday but now it's more detailed eerie as is a new female founded podcast network they launched with full new shows this week willink with more information from are episode notes and on news today folks bus has announced an also leveling feature fritz customers in france y'all know a small rural county now has its own podcast journalism dot co dot uk reports on how they established it cost have announced a masterclass series for underrepresented groups in podcasting they called eight kloss see what they've done that and the first event is on the twenty second of july cbc podcasts currently sending us cryptic messages the latest one says one of a holocaust has a surprise for you expecting to learn a little more from this on july the ninth broadcast input costs are two worlds converging says only studios mitch secrets where data from across the world and the youngest s e oh plunking was a bad idea uphold cost until now because they deliberately block search engines from seeing you rss feeds and so you'd never get into google podcast dope after many reports this is now being fix inversion eleven point seven in focus today willing to frank tennis tales from no man's land a new podcast from the uk musician and they say the first time the uk office has released a podcast in conjunction with an album also news media insider podcast look inside the uk media industry and the conversation
June 4, Hr 1 Julio Rivera, Editorial Director for Reacionarytimes.com
"This is mornings with Kale fueled by Great Western Petroleum, only thirteen ten KFI. Screaming writing in the Craig Press has headline, says it all how long until something weird becomes normal, welcome to your new normal six Oh eight out thirteen ten K F K a thirteen ten KFI A. dot com mornings with Gail fueled by great, Western, petroleum live and local via the auto collision Specialists Studios. We are living in surreal times, and as I look around the nation the protests continue. They had to call out the National Guard in south, Dakota, of all places last night, and the ongoing rancor and unrest, the chaos and the mayhem, just for grins this morning I went to the drudge report which. I typically do, but let's run through some of the headlines. Some of the surreal headlines in the DRUDGE report justice morning keeping in mind, how long until something weird becomes normal in Chicago? For example you have a man dressed up as joker torching a police car. You've got a beatdown of a naked man in the bronx during the riots that have to do with accountability. What does that have to do with morning? The senseless death of George Floyd lueders are looting from one another. They're actually stealing each other's stuff. To more New York, police department cops are shot. One is stabbed in Brooklyn this as police law enforcement, trying to maintain some semblance of particularly in those large urban areas are being attacked assaulted shot stabbed. They're throwing bottles full of concrete at them. This as the agitators are conveniently leaving. For well, the not so peaceful protesters and again let's not get it wrong. Peaceful protests get highest form of patriotism. At least that's what's been said, and you do have peaceful protests going on around the country, but come nightfall. Unfortunately, it seems like the criminal element comes out, and they are supported, but by whom where are these pallets of bricks coming from that are being stashed in cars unmarked cars. No license plates on them. Who is funding this movement? This movement that's leading to such anarchy across this entire country. Union boss in New, York City. We're losing the city guns. Gun stores are running out of guns. Lueders are fleeing in luxury. SUV's. Then have a rapper busted this after video calls for murder of all police. Heavily armed national guardsmen is caught by real soldiers. This as trump's approval rating drops to thirty nine percent so heartbreaking time in this country, isn't it? And it begs the question. How long until something weird becomes normal? Is this our new normal? And what do the protesters want? Their functioning obviously onto tracks, you have those who want accountability coming out of the Minnesota Police Department and yes, accountability justice has been rather swift. This is all four x officers involved are now charged and in custody they actually. Raise the charge against. That brutal brutal Derek. Shelvin who put his knee on George Floyd's neck for the better part of nine minutes. We also have the autopsy report as well, but the bottom line is, justice can only move so swiftly. Should there be accountability absolutely but as president. Obama suggests, do we have to? Re imagine policing this narrative, this vile violent narrative against law enforcement in which you have. Mayors governors across the country, looking at funding for police departments in the midst of chaos and mayhem. It's absolutely ludicrous sure. Are there bad cops absolutely? Are there bad radio show hosts? Are there bad teachers? Are there bad lawyers? Judges. Sure. Going to have a component of people that have no business doing what they're doing, no matter what their profession might be, but this narrative. Light enforcement particularly during such a time of mayhem is UN thinkable. It's unbelievable, and it's dangerous your thoughts this morning, nine, hundred, seventy, three, five, three, thirteen, ten, eight, seven, seven, three, five, three, thirteen ten, but yes, all four fired Minneapolis police officers involved in George Floyd's death. Now indeed face criminal charges, and all are in custody now. According to court records, Tom Tau Thomas Lane, Jay, Alexander coon all face, aiding and abetting second degree unintentional murder now it's interesting because I was listening to Fox this morning. Judge Andrew Napolitano talking about this elevated charge against a Derek. Shelvin because you remember it was. Third Degree third degree, murder and second degree manslaughter again. That murder charge against Derek. Shopping has been upgraded to second degree unintentional murder which. Judge Andrew Napolitano took issue as saying no. No, this is not a charge without intense, so we'll have to iron all that out, but you've got. The three officers involved whether they were just complicit or whether they were. Involved apparently there is a video floating around out there. That shows one officer as Shelvin is kneeling on George. Floyd's neck, another officer holding them down reportedly. You have one officer saying. Hey, don't you think you ought to lighten up to which I? Say? Don't you think you should have taken action? When you saw the heinous actions of your your fellow officer? But that's conversation for another time, so you've got the three other officers involved in this horrific death, of George Floyd. All facing aiding and abetting second-degree unintentional murder. As, well as aiding and abetting second degree murder, at least one of the former officers did turn himself in, but all of them are now in custody again. Derek Chavez murder charge has been upgraded to second degree. Unintentional murder. He's still faces. Those are third degree, murder and second degree manslaughter charges. Is it enough for? This, gratuitous violence and destruction that we are seeing across the country is enough for it to come to an end or am I forty in my logic here am I looking at the wrong premise, because could it be argued that all of the looting and the arson and the destruction of a particularly small businesses that have been hit so hard already. Ravaged by covert. Many main never reopen, and then you've got the looters doubling down the thugs I'll go ahead and call them thugs because they have their own agenda, and it's an agenda that has nothing to do with justice for Joy George Floyd your thoughts this morning, nine, seven, three, five, three, thirteen, ten, eight, seven, seven, three, five, three, thirteen, ten. Drop me a text, thirteen ten KFI text line at the three blonde. Nine six this time checks sponsored by carrying hearts home healthcare. It's six sixteen, serving northern Colorado since two thousand and one. We're patient. Care always comes first nine, seven, three, seven, eight, fourteen, nine or caring hearts, H, h dot, com holes, sports story in northern Colorado state in the country tune into the whole show weekdays noon to two and thirteen ten KFI. Hey, if you miss any portion of mornings with Gail, go to thirteen ten kfi am dot com to download the podcast today back to gail. Saints quarterback drew brees get sacked sacked after remarks. He made about protesting during the national anthem. This is. DENVER broncos coach Vic Fangio's apologizing after he says he didn't see racism at all. In the NFL, what's important with both of these statements is that they be put in appropriate contexts something that well the twitter. Roddy isn't too fun of doing. You know the unruly mob, not only we're seeing that major urban areas cities across the country, but indeed in social media which has just turned into a warzone six, twenty, four, now, thirteen ten KFI thirteen ten KFI. Dot Com all right, so you had. New Orleans Saints quarterback drew brees not happy. If NFL players take in protest during the two thousand and twenty season. He made these comments during an interview. Here's here was his full answer. When he was asked about players kneeling again when the NFL season starts. I will never agree with anybody disrespecting the flag of the United States of America or our country said breeze. Let me just tell what I see and what I feel when the national anthem is played when I look at the flag of the United States I envisioned my two grandfathers who fought for this country during World War Two one in the army and one in the Marine Corps both risking their lives to protect our country, and to try to make our country in this world a better place, so every time I stand with my hand over my heart looking at the. The flag and singing the national anthem. That's what I think about, and in many cases that brings me to tears, thinking about all that has been sacrificed, not just those in the military, but for that matter those throughout the civil rights movements of the sixties, and all that has been endured by so many people up until this point, and is everything right with our country now. No, it is not. We still have a long way to go but I do think what you do by standing there and showing respect to the flag with your hand over your heart is shows unity. It shows that we are all in this together. We can all do better and that we are all part of the problem. Counter to the narrative that we are all part of the solution counter to the narrative that we're increasingly seeing across this nation, where so many are part of the problem a solution? Not Not, even coming to the forefront of their mind. It's not even part of their mindset. Destruction reigns supreme across the nation. But it's your brees said so articulately said. We're all in this together. We can all do better, and we are all part of the solution Oh. But no shortage of flack flying around. Because he dared to speak his mind and well, let's just say he didn't follow the popular politically correct narrative, but boy I'll tell you why he is just just gotten slammed on social media. Breeze teammate Michael Thomas. One of the many athletes reacted to the future. All Fame quarterbacks comments saying he don't know better. We don't care if you don't agree. And whoever else. How about that? Other athletes cross the sports world sharing their thoughts on breeze comments including green bay packers quarterback Aaron Rodgers La Lakers. Superstar Lebron James San Francisco Forty niners cornerback Richard Sherman and of former Seattle seahawks. Wide Receiver Doug. Among others, former Saints Teammates Kenny Vaccaro responded to Thomas on twitter by saying that one hurt. Bro James said while man. Is it still it's still surprising at this point. Sure, isn't you literally still do not understand why Colin Kaepernick kneeling on one knee has absolutely nothing to do with the disrespect and our soldiers, men and women who keep our land free. My father in law was one of those Rogers reacted on Instagram by saying it has never been about an anthem, not then not now listen with an open heart. Let's educate ourselves and then turn word and thought into action. Oh, the thought police have spoken out the Ministry of Truth those who are drinking the politically correct aid, and how dare drew brees speak not only from his mind. But from his heart. Truly is a sad time in America. Isn't it six twenty, eight, thirteen ten? KFI May thirteen ten KFI. Dot Com. He's Gail fueled by Great Western petroleum all right. We're GonNa get to that piece that I pulled out of the channel four about Vic fangio apologizing after saying quotes, he doesn't see racism at all. In the NFL now on the face of that could be considered a bit of a head scratcher right, but once again as with everything else. You need to put that comment that statement in two contexts, speaking, putting things into context as we watch. major cities burn as the looting and the arson all well purportedly in the name of honoring the memory of George Floyd continues well. If you look at the makeup of the governance in many of those states who are seeing the biggest problem you will find that they are blue states. Is this a failure of leadership that is now turning major cities into crime ridden disasters zones Julio Rivera is an American of Puerto Rican descent. He serves as editorial director for Reactionary Times Dot. com, and we'll. We'll get his reaction when he weighs in at six thirty five at six thirty, now thirteen ten F. K. Bursts to UNC bears targeting game coverage lives on thirteen ten Kfi am, and it's always your turn to comment text Kf. K A two, three, one, nine, nine, six to get involved in the conversation mornings with Gail continues now and thirteen ten KFI. I ask you this morning. How long until something something soup real becomes a normal well again we are seeing the new normal as violence continues to characterize it. Many of the peaceful protests that are being hijacked by thugs with their own agenda protests across the country. Protesting the death of George, Floyd, the of those Minnesota police officers, six, thirty, seven, now thirteen, ten, Kfi, a thirteen ten. KFI K. DOT COM morning. Gail fueled by Great Western. Petroleum is this indeed a classic failure of leadership as we look at many of those urban areas across the country Julio Rivera is an American of Puerto Rican descent and serves as the editorial director for Reactionary Times Dot Com. He's also a featured columnist at the Washington. Times the Toronto Sun the epoch times and the American thinker holy out. Thank you so much for taking the time. Thank you so much driving. Gill. You Bet so I look at New York City and like many other cities Detroit among them Minneapolis. It looks like a warzone. Sachs is wrapped in razor wire stores on Fifth Avenue are boarded up and it seems as though the governor's the mayor I mean you've got Cuomo and de Blasios just battling it out, and they're kind of fiddling while the city Burns. Our, in right now, New York City looks like an exercise in ineptitude in so many ways I mean you look at all the money that was spent on putting together these impromptu hospitals you know dragging the Navy hospital ships over to New York City because of the corona virus, and all the death that occurred as of Cuomo in New, York City's You know in new. York, State Rather ridiculous anti discrimination laws, which led to you know a lot of elderly folks that were had been diagnosed with the corona virus, being put back into nursing homes, which led to more people, getting sick and more people dying. Despicable, but he doesn't WanNa talk about that, does he? No, no, no, this is something this is something actually becomes a convenience for him that this is GonNa going on, because now he could start scapegoating the Blasio and you know he can cry. Rekindle that Pixie dust that he had a couple of months back when people were saying that he should replace Joe Biden on the democratic. Democratic ticket JOE BIDEN! WHO's probably in in a sense, glad that the attention has shifted from his controversial. You Ain't black comments, not even two weeks ago. Gail think about that. If you like a lifetime ago that the breakfast club thing happened, but that was actually less than two weeks ago and now the new cycle is being dominated instead of by Joe Biden Gaffe dominated by this. What really grinds by gears here with this whole thing? Is this the number? Don't support the narrative, nor have they ever. I've always made the argument that we have over one million uniformed police officers in the United States of America right every day. There's millions of interactions between police in private citizen. We have about forty million black Americans. You know currently in the country, so if this whole systematic racism narrative and blacks are being hunted like wild game in the street by police. If all of that was true, you want to be having a dozen cases identical or even more. Than what we had with George Floyd on a daily basis and I don't know if you have the opportunity to listen to Tucker Carlson last night, he laid out the most. Like Perfect argument that I've ever heard like literally if anybody wanted. His show last night he basically said that there were ten according to the Washington Post and the Washington Post catches wind of any of this. Believe me they're one of the media. Outlets likes the fan, the flames on these things, but he pointed out that there were only ten cases last year the entire calendar year that there was a shooting by police officer that resulted. Basically. That was the death of an unarmed black citizen. There were only ten and in more than half of them. The police officer had been physically attack in one way or the other, either with a weapon with a vehicle with a teaser in one case and the police officer obviously had to discharge his weapon to calm down the information. In those cases. The police officer was not charged. So you're basically talking about left than. About you're talking about one a quarter somewhere around one a quarter for the calendar year in the country with three hundred twenty five million people in forty million black people, I am sick and tired of watching. These liberal pundits go on television and say that America has a problem with systematic racism. Nothing can be further for the truth. We have things in this country like affirmative action. We have anti-discrimination laws, and towards I mean in New York. You can't even Miss Gender Somebody without potentially losing your store your. Business God forbid you do it, you know within the confines of Your Business. This is ridiculous. We're literally at the edge of potentially losing our country due to these amplify both narrative gail. Absolutely and yes I did see Tucker Carlson, interestingly, enough He was working from the same piece I was working from yesterday by Heather. McDonald and those stats were absolutely eye opening, weren't they? They were incredible, but once again there is a much larger agenda at stake here I'm in. You have former president. Obama, coming out saying well, we can all do better. We can all come together and we can all re. Policing okay. Are there some problems with some people in some police departments? Sure, but you're going to see that across the board in every single enterprise, so yes, accountability is important, and you need to weed out the bad apples, but now you've got governors and mayors across the state California I believe new. York among them saying well, we need to start looking at the amount of money that we are putting into the police departments, which is absolutely particularly in such a time of mayhem and chaos. I mean that is particularly disturbing to me. Yeah both right. Rock Obama coming out of the woodwork is the most critical opportunistic thing that I've seen from Barack Obama in a while. This is part of a long list of opportunistic political. Stunts that have been undertaken by Barack Obama since the time he's been the public high alerts, and this is. The Guy was fanning the flames in Ferguson, the whole state, of course thing legitimising You know what was going on there with know sending Eric holder there and you know he's always said he's basically the AL the Ivy League Al Sharpton. I mean that's more. More, he's nothing more than a rabble rouser I'm really is rabble rouser race housework. That's basically what he has let's. Let's face it because when the facts came out, Bergesen after Ferguson had burned after all the all the millions of tens of millions of dollars worth of damage that was done to these people their own community, which I can't even wrap my head around why? Why you would go ahead and this for your own community as a result of what you feel is an injustice. I. I don't know what you get what you're supposed to get out of that, but after he did that. basically you know the facts. Come Out Michael Brown. We saw the videotape of him abusing the store owner physically. He was intoxicated according to. To the toxicology reports, and he physically attacked. You know the the grand jury testimony. Not You know. Bring bringing charges because he you know. He was attacked a police officer. The police officer who was much smaller than Michael, Brown rightly had to discharge his weapon to pass a field to end the information Andy, confrontation rather I'm sorry I'm all worked up because I'm drinking. Energy smoothly right now. Yes. Not Very emotional very emotional thing for me, 'cause. I'm from New Jersey regionally, which is an urban inner city? I've grown up. I've seen a lot of racism all over the place like between listen if you are white person and you went to the school. The the the grade school I went through and and the high school that I went to believe me you are. Are The minority and you're the victim of extreme racism I've seen you know when people say the whole world to reverse racism. There's no black. People aren't capable of being racist in America because of whatever you know, listen at the end of the day. Nobody who alive today was ever slave, nobody who's alive today, ever own slaves if you look at the actual percentage of. Southerners Own Slaves. It was literally like the one percent that actually owns the majority of the country back then was poor, and I'm talking black people white people all people in, America. You know the majority were poor? If you look at America today, the majority of the people you're talking about millions of people now that are unemployed. The majority of the people in this country that are at the poverty line are White, the majority of people in this country who, on social programs or white so I don't understand this whole white privilege narrative beck another one. They've got to get thrown out and flush down the toilet with this whole myth of systematic police brutality. No absolutely and. Relative to you know the whole sixteen nineteen project you have the founder of bt calling for fourteen trillion dollars in reparations, but once again, what is so disturbing about this? As was with cove nineteen, it's becoming abundantly clear to even the most casual observer is that this is being used. It's being weaponized and I'm talking about just all of the chaos that we are seeing across the country question you know if. If, I wonder if that's chaos will come to an end now that you have all four of those Minnesota Police officers in jail and being charged, but then again I have a faulty premise because that's not for some of the protesters. That's what not that's not what this is all about, but that's what's so sickening to me. Julio is the politicisation not only of the pandemic but of the riots. Exactly. Listen if the left. And the complicit media this supports their agenda can go ahead and continue this off narrative of disorder in America through an. American, racist country they cove in nineteen is gonNA. Kill a ball. If we leave the house I mean I. Don't think we weren't forcing. You know lockdown orders and curfews. Protester Yeah. Exactly yeah, let your protest. Corona virus is. Transmitted transmittable. Engage in the act of writing or something apparent, but you have to be on the right side of the protest because. Remember the protesters. Yeah, yeah, that were protesting the lockdown and Ono. No, no! They are risking their risk to public health, but no. If you get out in protest now, oh well, that is the right thing to do. Corona virus doesn't CARE CORONA VIRUS DOESN'T TARGET CORONA VIRUS IS CORONA virus. Of course we could have a conversation about what corona virus actually is. Yeah No, you're absolutely right. I mean that's I. Think it's just one thing on top of another thing when they couldn't get the Russian narrative, boogeyman. To stick to trump you know then it became something else. Then it became the Ukrainian boogeyman which is funny, because this isn't the totally the lunacy of the LEP-. The Ukraine narrative was built around a crime which I believe it to be a crime if it was properly investigated. Committed by Joe Biden not by president trump president trump just will say hey, you know if we're going to subsidize the Ukrainian government, which is by extension subsidizing this crooked energy company I have some questions and what's wrong with asking questions gail. Ridiculous apparently a president tried to engage in diplomacy. Now is GONNA end this? They permanently damaged the act of diplomacy because of any president that ever picks up the phone to talk to a foreign leader. GonNa have to speak have all of his attorneys that have like four lawyers in the room before even engaging in a conversation with another four an entity because of because the president has been said here now that you can try to impeach president over nonsense. And Look what they did to Michael Flynn for Heaven's Sakes Oh and don't get me wrong I. Am not a corona virus, covid, nineteen Denier, but some of the lockdown, and some of the actions taken are highly highly suspect Julio Rivera an American port of Puerto Rican descent serves as the editorial director for the Reactionary Times. Dot Com. Tell you what you are welcome. As long as you are fully fueled on those energy smoothies. You are welcome to come back on any old time, my friend. God, bless you. Thank you so much for having me. It was a great conversation. It certainly was thank you as well six fifty, one now thirteen ten KFI thirteen ten K.. K. preps radio is northern Colorado's home for the past high school coverage thirteen ten Kfi K., a thirteen, ten K. K. A., dot, com, six, fifty, five, or all sports story in northern Colorado state in the country tune into the whole show weekdays noon to two and thirteen ten KFI K. Six fifty seven, now thirteen ten K. up. Kia Thirteen ten KFI. K. A. DOT COM mornings for Gail fueled by Great Western Petroleum, live and local the auto collision specialist studios. All right is five G. The cause of covid nineteen. Comment coming up in our myth busting segment. No doubt hey. If it's on the Internet, it must be true right because no doubt you've seen the conspiracy theories that say yeah. Five G. is actually the cause of the novel coronavirus send is responsible. It spreads so you've seen any number of Those towers set on fire. Around, the world, but across the country, engineers that are working on this I was reading a fascinating piece relative to this this morning about engineers that are working on the technology I mean they are not only being confronted. By people that have bought this narrative hook line and sinker. They're not only being confronted on the streets, but they're being attacked because well. Day are leading to the destruction of the country when it comes to five Jeez tell you what we're GonNa do I'm going to debunk not only that a ever so popular myth that g causes Covid, nineteen but some other myths that you might have heard about just a trolling around. Pardon the Pun there on the Internet and we're GONNA get into that. At seven Oh five, but also WANNA. Get back to interesting conversation this morning with Julio Rivera. Who is with the reactionary times and we were talking about the fact that how is it that we were all told with the corona bias? We all needed to. We were safer at home this after the lockdown or expired funny when it comes to protesters well how they seem magically exempt. We'll get into that as well. ABC News than local news coming your way in just a few burst to UNC bears targeting game coverage lives on thirteen ten KFI K.
TKC 525 Amazon Publishing's Grace Doyle
"Welcome to the kindle chronicles the Friday podcast, all about your kindle books and all things. Amazon. I'm Julie today is August twenty. Fourth twenty eighteen. Readings from ocean park Maine, where I rode the magic Skype, carpet all the way to Seattle this week for a conversation with the editorial director of Thomas and Mercer that's the Amazon publishing imprint responsible for changing the life of Robert de Goni author of the Tracy Crosswhite mystery series. Who was my guest on last week show. This week's guest is grace Doyle, who is the editorial director at Thomas Mercer. I remember the first time Bob over lines, and I was just so impressed as we were talking about how well he already knew Tracy. I mean, he knew her backstory. He knew her life. He had a lot of ideas for her about where she was going to go in the future, and he was really eager to collaborate with us. Also this week, some great deals on Amazon devices, even though it's not prime day or black Friday. My visit to a WalMart here in Maine to look for evidence of the retailers, new partnership with Kobo and a handy website that will tell you how long it is going to take to read your next book. First in news are some pretty good deals that Amazon has on some of his devices and it's no special time. There is at one banner which calls these off to college deals, but whatever you call them, there's some really good prices. The one that's the most impressive to me is the echo show is now selling for one hundred thirty dollars, and that's one hundred dollars off the usual price of two hundred thirty. As you know, I am a big fan of this device, especially if you need to keep in touch with someone at a distance and have dropped it easy videoconferencing that she can set up through the drop in feature. There is also a sale on the echo dot. That's the hockey puck size echo second generation. It selling for forty dollars. That's ten dollars off the fire TV of box which you plug into your TV is selling for thirty dollars off, and it's the now priced at forty dollars, the fire TV cube, which gives you. A combination of election, fire TV is selling for ninety dollars. That's a thirty dollar discount and the echo. Plus, that's the. That's my HD ten, which I need to turn off the Alexa hands free. There we go the echo plus that's the tall echo. The canister looks like a tennis ball contraption, and the plus has extra features which are useful in setting up smart home devices. It selling for one hundred dollars and that's sixty five dollars off. I'll have links to these in the show notes and they'll have my Amazon associates code in them. So if you take advantage of any of these deals by starting on those links, you'll be helping out the show with some commissions. Next in news, read with considerable interest this week about Cobos partnership with WalMart. This was announced earlier this year, I think in January and it's in effect online, but I stopped by the bit Aford main WalMart store, which is right near here at ocean park this morning. See if there's any evidence of this partnership in the store? There wasn't. I got directed to the electron IX department and someone was having a long conversation with the sole tech guy there about how to buy a printer and I listened for well, and then wandered off finally interrupted the guy to see if I get some help. Can I get a question? You have the Kobo readers, you know, no idea. If you want to wait a minute, I can. On my phone and see if I can find. Okay. Yeah, thanks. I had to get back to the cottage to meet a guy who was going to help us trim some trees in the grove around cottages. So I didn't have time to wait for the the conversation about the printer to finish. But as I walked out the store, I happened on a guy who said on his name tags, store manager, I don't know if he was the store manager. He had the same answer, but he gave it a more authoritative way. And there was another guy next to him that seemed to have some vague sense that something was happening with Kobo e readers. Yeah, no Woolmer can have them, but I guess it's not. Okay. Can order online might be out yet. Online, but not in the store yet. Okay. Do you think you're going to have them in the store? I don't know if it's online, maybe it's all day shipping. Yeah, that's free. Yeah, we could get a bed when they do suck the. Suck the heading. Oh, I see. Yeah, to sell e books and everything else. Okay, thanks. The store manager pulled out his smartphone, and he found the fact that the Cobos were listed. And as he said, were available to be shipped to the store for two days shipping free, and that would be handy. But no sign of them in the stores yet. I've owned a Kobo in the past the, it's it's a nice device. They had an e ink reader and for a while they were hooked up with independent bookstores through the American booksellers association. And I bought a Kobo book at the Harvard bookstore in Cambridge because the deal was they were going to get some benefit of it. I remember talking to someone at the ABA at the time on background and he was saying the reason this probably wasn't going to work is because that you couldn't buy Cobos at what he called the big box stores. This is probably five years ago or so, and so now you can and it's obviously a good opportunity for Kobo to try to make a dent in the US market. At this point kindle, his probably seventy five percent of the book market in the US and Kobo is I, I think under one percent it's a tiny fraction. And the question is, will any, will they really make much of a dent in Amazon share? Certainly anybody who. Who has a thousand e books in the kindle format is not going to be tempted to switch to buy books on Kobo. There might be a reason to have one of each, although I can't really determine what that reason might be. If someone is has waited to try e books and they're at a WalMart, and they see a good price on a Kobo or they see some of the advertising that's going to happen. It might be an opportunity for some people who just hadn't used any reader yet to go the Kobo route as opposed to the kindle route. I did try to connect my WalMart account with my Cobo count because I, I knew I would be able to download Kobo books to the Kobo app, and there's now a WalMart e books app which you can download from itunes and I'm sure Android. But I found that the process of getting these two accounts. Synchronized was it took released a half an hour, maybe more last night of fooling around to get it. I did finally get it to work and there's a ten dollar discount available to promote this partnership. For some reason, I didn't get the full ten dollars when I bought the things they carried, which is a great book about Vietnam by Tim O'Brien. I've been meaning to buy. I got about seven or eight dollar discount on the ten dollar price for that, which was good. And now I can read it on the app on my iphone. One thing I noticed in reading that Kobo app on my iphone is the kind of a funky way that the page changes. It seemed like half of the page would be blank, and then the type would change was distracting glitch in in that app which you know they'll probably fixes as time goes on. I will probably break down and by other Kobo because I think this would be a good time to do a careful comparison. Of reading on kindle versus reading on a Kobo Kobo get quite a presence around the world was bought by recruiting the Japanese company number of years ago, and Michael Tamblyn. The original guy at Cobo from candidates is still in charge. He's charismatic great salesman, and there's some ads that he has promoting this and with with some justification. But I, I am sure that I'm going to find out that if you compare reading on a kindle with x Ray and translation than all the other aspects of kindle platform, they've been quietly added over the past ten years that it, it's going to be a better experience of buying books than than Kobo, but who knows? Maybe I'll be surprised. I think one thing I do know is that the Kobo has a better integration with overdrive which is also owned by recruiting so that it's a little easier to get a book from your public library onto a Kobo than it is on your kindle. Just slightly, you know, I think it's one or two clicks. It's not a dramatically. Interface, but the overdrive hap is a little handier on the Kobo. Another item in news that I found interesting was a report from Bloomberg about a week ago saying that Amazon is in the running to acquire landmark theatres that's a theater chain of art house. Indeed, movies there's a, they have quite a presence in Denver and early, and I've gone to the Mayan theater on Broadway in Denver. There's some some others. There's also one in Cambridge. I think the KENDALL square theater is part of that chain. They have more than fifty theaters in twenty seven markets, including high profile locations in New York, Philadelphia, Chicago, Los Angeles and San Francisco. I find this appealing anytime. Amazon does something like acquire whole foods or other ventures. If you are a prime member as I am, you can bet that they're going to be some advantages of it. There might be a movie night that gives fifty percent off to prime members or or who knows what. And it has some kind of a possible synchronization with prime video. And Amazon has been has made some original movies. So this does seem like a logical step for them to take just kind of a reporter rumor at this phase and don't know if it's actually going to happen. Also have Lincoln the show notes to an article from slate that was forwarded to me by listener. Dan Campbell. It's titled Alexa is losing her edge, it's by will or Mus. It confirms something that I've known in talking listening to Bradley met rocks podcast, and other sources. Google is coming up fast in this voice technology. And I must say that the Google home assistant that I have on my desk here is quite an attractive device. And the information that I get from it is usually equal to what I get from the show. And in some ways that stroz in some nifty sound effects and it's obviously very well-done device. And sometimes I just think, well, I have a question here, which I bet is too complicated or tricky for Alexa to answer. I'm going to try it on and say, hey, Google, and see what comes up. But. Anyway, this has got numbers telling the story, obviously, Google and Amazon are not announcing how many of these devices they've sold, but piecing it together. This article shows significant decline in the market share for the Alexa devices, an increase for the Google devices and also a little bit more success for from Apple's device. At the same time, I liked the ending of the story. It's simply doesn't seem, doesn't seem to have a preference for one of these, but he says that Amazon, no longer looks poised. Monopolize. Smart speakers might reassure critics wary of its online retail dominance, but the prospect of ghouls dominance should give privacy advocates, pause what we have now, thankfully is a hotly competitive industry. The kind that is unlikely to give rise to any proprietary at pond hymns epidemic. Computer. What is FM mean? Apple Emma's usually defined as the person for whom something is named door. Alternatively, the name derived from a person real or imaginary, hey, Google, what does it mean. Here's the definition of FM a person after whom discovery invention place, etcetera, is named or thought to be named. Well, two different definitions of the same word and I'd rate that a tie. Okay. So that's the reference there is that none of these devices is going to get to be the Kleenex of this category in other words brand. That's so dominant that it simply becomes the name for smart speakers. And I, I'm fine with that. I, I like the idea that there's competition in this important area of the evolution of the interface between us and computers, and I'm sure Alexis going to hold her own in its. It's going to be fascinating to follow the development in this area in the coming years. The last story that I'll linked to is from Forbes, can blockchain disrupt the book market to startups will find out. We'll hear more about this next week because I was able to track down one of the startups that is mentioned here publica and it's based in Gibraltar and Latvia, and I'm going to have the CEO of the company. On the show next week, Joseph, Mark, what they're doing is using blockchain technology to make books valuable. You get a token to get a book. It's all fascinating, and I'm going to try to download the one book that public has available through its technology between now. And next week when I talked to the CEO abusing an ether on the ethereal, blockchain that I've been experimenting with before as you can imagine the chance to be talking about an e book distribution through blockchain has has got my attention pretty high. The other thing I'll mention is that as with some birthday help from my parents, I've registered for a six week intensive blockchain course at the Sloan management school at MIT and one of the faculty members of woman that I heard at south by southwest, she was brilliant and the faculty looks like it's a very high quality. I'm afraid I'm going to be a little in over my. My head on this and be very curious how many other, what types of people from around the world are gonna participate. But it starts the day before my birthday on August twenty. Ninth and six weeks. I'll be spending at least on our a day on this course I'll I should have. I should know more about this topic than I know now and I'm really excited about it. For the tip I wanna pass along a pretty cool site that I learned about at recommend. Oh, that's a list of six or seven great ideas that arrived in my inbox each week from Kevin Kelly. This one is the Yar l. is WWW dot how long to read this dot com. And it's totally simple. You enter the title of a book and then there's a little sample of the book which you can time yourself reading. It uses that information to figure out how fast you're reading. As an example. I'm reading Mark Twain life by Ron powers. It clocked my reading at three hundred sixty words per minute, and it said that it will take me eight hours forty one minutes to read the book. It's a long book. Great book. I'm really enjoying it. The other one I'm reading is a collection of five novels by Edward Saint Aubin title. Patrick Melrose. There was a series of of Showtime series made of that and. And that it's gonna take me ten hours twenty three minutes to read. So if you're thinking reading a book and you wonder how much of a time commitment it's going to take given how fast you read Goto how long to read this dot com. Greysteel has worked at a venerable Boston publisher, Houghton Mifflin, and elite winery in the Seattle area. And for the past six years at Thomas and Mercer the mystery thriller and true crime imprint of Amazon publishing grace was publicity manager for Thomas and Mercer when Robert goonies manuscript for my sister's grave came in for consideration after speaking with Bob for last week's show, I thought you might like to hear from Gracie and her current role as the editorial director at Thomas and Mercer we talked on Wednesday, August twenty. Second via pretty good Skype connection from ocean, park Maine to Seattle. She also backed up her side with an iphone voice memo recorder, which was really great because actually the Skype had given us a little trouble, but that's that's a great way to get a backup on one of these interviews that I do. I began by asking about how she I encountered the work of Bob Goni. I'm actually the publicity manager for. Thomas and Mercer at the time that the manuscript for my sister's grave came into Allen Turkis who are at a Toyota director at the time. And I remember Alan sent it over for two for me and other members of team to have an early read. And we were just, we just all fell in love with it. You know, Tracy Crosswhite has such a compelling and back story and was just really appealing and how to really fresh voice. We were all fans of Bob's David Sloan series which he had published earlier and we really felt the together as a team we could working together with Bob. We could really get in front in front of a whole new audience of readers with this book because this was such a special book. So we, you know, I remember the first time I met Bob over lunch, and I was just so impressed as we were talking about how well he already knew Tracy. I mean, he knew her backstory. He knew her life. He had a lot of ideas for her about where she was going to go in the future, and he was really eager to collaborate with us as well. Both editorial. Early and bliss, decide and marketing, and that collaboration is continued. We just published the six, Tracy Crosswhite book, steep price, and we did the seventh canon which was a standalone legal roller, and we have a great new coming from him next year as well as more Tracy books. So it's been a really great collaboration. I was interested in the fact that had to stand alone novels. In addition to the two series, seven Canada, and the ordinary life of Sam hell is, is he unusual as an author within Amazon publishing to have published in two different imprints the lake union as well as Thomas and Mercer? Well, I wouldn't say it's something that happens every day. I mean, we always want our authors to write the books that excite them and then do the best we can to find the largest audience for those stories and those books. So in the case of the seventh canon, which Thomas and Mercer did publish Bob, it actually written a first draft of that book back in the nineties before he wrote the David Sloan series, and it had been sitting in a drawer. And he showed it to us at a certain point and we read it and just thought it was fantastic. You know, I'm from San Francisco originally, and this was a San Francisco set legal thriller with a lot of heart and we, we worked on it, we updated and revised it and put it out, and it's been a great success. And we do talk about sometimes doing another Peter Donnelly book in the future. So that was great. And then with Sam, how which is the book that lake union publishing published. That's another story that Bob had been working on on and off for many years, and it's really a story of his heart. I know you talked to him about it at lane last week, and it's it's really, you know, it's got a lot of auto biographical elements and it was something different for him, and he sent me the manuscript and I just fell in love with it and they knew that readers would as well. I also knew it wasn't a thriller which is of course, my area of specialization, and we thought, you know, our friends over at lake union can do a great job with this book. And so we sent it over and Danielle Marshall, whose the editor director there took it on and just proved to be the perfect editor for it, and she and Bob polished it up and made it into such a great book and it's really been wonderful to see the reader response. Well, I remember when Thomas Mercer was launched back in twenty eleven, and there were four books that were announced that year. I know you've been busy since then, but. Can you tell you what the total number of books that Thomas Mercer has published in the last seven years we have now. So since two thousand eleven, we are over nine hundred bucks now and that breaks down. We are doing about one hundred books globally a year. Is that a lot or a little or what kind of a number is that in the overall world of publishing, I can't really speak to the size of anybody else's list, but we have found, you know, there's been years where we have had more. There's been years where we've had laugh and this seems to be a good sweet spot for us in terms of enough books that we have a great variety to share with readers and also are being able to spend a good amount of time with the authors working on the books and making them the best. They can be about the mix between the saddle shot authors and debut author. It really varies. I mean, what we're trying to do is always have a really good balanced publication list and are always looking at a mix of exciting debuts. Us new projects from authors who we've been working with on are are still building and also new projects from from authors Baabda goalies a great example authors who are established but are are coming over to work with us. So for example, when I look at our at our publication calendar over the next couple of months, we have a couple of really exciting debuts coming from authors, white, Catherine rigs, and Matthew Ferrell we have debris line, which is the fourth Gibson von book from Matthew Fitzsimmons. His debut was the short drop, which was a Uber success for us a couple of years ago. And then we also have an incredible new work from Brian grueling who's an Edgar award nominee and Pulitzer prize winner called bleak harbor that's going to be coming out in December. So that gives you an idea of the kind of mix that we have between debuts and authors who consider how authors and then authors who are new to us. Well, I've also been interested. The role of the editor. I talked mainly with authors, but I think I've had some editors on the show and I probably indirectly from hearing authors talk about their experience like Bob talking about Allen Turkis. It almost seems like it's a, it's a midwife. It's a, it's a coach. It's a cheerleader. It's sometimes kinda judge, but in in your time of editing books. Have you see that role? What would what kind of help you give an author as as the editor I view editors role is really helping to make good buff grade and connecting doing everything that we can to to make those books. Perfect, and get them out and connect authors with readers and really take care of things that the author has the time and the mind space to do what they do best, which is right the book. I mean, that's that's one thing we always tell. Authors, the best thing they can be doing is with their time is writing. And so we want to take care of everything else. And really again, just taking taking books and manuscripts that are already wonderful, which is why we acquire them and just making them even better so that we can get them in front of the most number of readers home any books editor work on at a time. Again, I think it varies, but I would say for me, I usually have about three to four projects at some stage in the editing process at a time, whether it's a new submission that I'm reading or a manuscript, I've acquired that I'm editing or a manuscript that I've edited and now is in production, and I'm helping shepherd at three productions. So it's it's usually about three or four at a time is one of your current projects. The Patricia Cornwell is quantum series which is coming on December of twenty nineteen. Yes, that is something we are extremely excited about and personally have a longtime reader, Patricia. I'm I'm incredibly excited to launch this new. Series, you know, captain Kelly chases is a new character for her. She's a young NASA test pilot, aerospace engineer whose twin sister is a fighter pilot and astronaut who's murdered. And so then captain chases is kind of trying to uncover what happened to her sister against a backdrop of nap NASA and space exploration and space science. So you know, one of the things that I always have loved about Patricia Cornwell is case car pedal was such groundbreaking character. When when post mortem came out in the early nineties, people weren't really reading about friends excited and we didn't. It was previous I, it was. It was pre all of these shows where now we all feel like we're crime scene experts and case Karpenko really made forensic science. Something that was familiar to readers all over the world. And it's really exciting to think about how captain chase might be a new trailblazer in teaching us about space science and space exploration. Talk to her about ripper, the secret life of Walter Sickert, and that book had some pretty effective uses of kindle in motion technology. And I think when I talked with her, the idea came out, is that something that you could include a novel and she seemed to open to the idea? Do you know if there's going to be any of that animation in the new book? Well, it's still pretty early as you said the book coming out until the end of next year. So I think we're kind of still still figuring out what's going to be the best way to just make this the most exciting release for readers. Has there been any kindle and motion animation in other fiction? I think there's been some. The other one I remember was the Scott Parazynski memoir heads, some it, but it's an interesting idea to think of whether that would be disruptive in a novel or something that might be affected maybe already done it. Well, I can tell you for Thomas and Mercer. We've had a couple of projects books that had been out that we did new kindle in motion. Editions of one was very, is lers graveyard of memories, which was a John rain thriller, and another one that we did was good behavior from Blake crouch and the reader response on the animation in the kindle emotion features on those was really positive. Interesting. So people didn't think it it detracted from being immersed in the story? I don't think so. And you know, as a reader as a reader, I actually felt, you know, spending a lot of time with both of those books that that all of that is taken into consideration and the enemy Shen and the feet special features were done in such a way that they purposely. We're trying not to be to break in on the reading experience. That's what I thought was so much more effective than some of the other kind of enhanced e-book things where they would drop a video of the author talking about it just in the middle of things, but I don't know if it's Tristesse Booker. Another one I saw where the kindle emotion animations were at the chapter. Beginnings, and so your chapter. So and so and you realize that the graphic is sort of changing on you in very subtle ways. So it it really fascinating opportunity for enhancing e-books. Yeah, I think they have done a great job and I will pass on your feedback to them because they're always happy to hear from readers. Dila thing I've wondered is the difference between a mystery thriller. Well, the way we generally look at it is a, you know, a mystery usually has some sort of who done it element, and the story is really focused around trying to solve the crime and figure out what happened. Whereas a thriller in thriller, we often already know who the bad guys are. The perpetrators are, and the story is really more about either trying to prove that or trying to stop another crime from happening. And there's a lot of different sub genres with within each category, but that that kind of breaks down the general difference. Now there's a third category, true crime in my right that you're just about to enter that category. What are you doing in the true crime area? Well, I'm so glad you asked, you know, we did jump into true crime with ripper last year, and that was just a wonderful experience working with Patricia Cornwell on that. And we are. We are looking to continue to publish some true crime every year or crime nonfiction. And so we have a great book coming up in two thousand nineteen from Greg Olsen who's a very well regarded award-winning true crime writer as well as fiction novelist, it's called the serial killers daughters, and it's about a the family of female serial killer here in the Pacific northwest and Greg has has become quite close to the family and has gotten some really exclusive interviews with them and spend a lot of time with them. So we think that's just going to be a wonderful book. And one thing that's that's really cool about the relationship with Gregg. As I said, Greg is Greg is a very well regarded author of both fiction and non fiction and has developed quite a close relationship with Liz Pearson's who's his editor here at Thomas and Mercer. We've been publishing crime novels from him for a couple of years now. And now he's made the jump to publishing true crime with us. And so we are very excited about that. We. I think that's gonna be a really big book and we'll continue to publish his thrillers as well. This would have come up, I suppose when Patricia the ripper came along, was there a possibility of having a separate imprint that would be just true crime as opposed to folding it under Thomas? Mercer. I think right now we're, we're happy having them under Thomas Mercer you know, anything is possible. I think it will sort of depend on on how big that that growth as a portion of our list, but we were comfortable. We have a sister imprint little a that publishes both fiction and nonfiction, and were excited to sort of get our feet into that as well. You came to Amazon in July twenty twelve, and and you worked for six years as a communications manager for same show wine estates, located outside of Seattle. I'm wondering if when you think of doing marketing for a winery versus a book publisher, something's the same, something's different. Any kind of idea. Lia's that you brought to book publishing from working a winery that turned out to be head been thought of a foreign and surprisingly effective. Well, you know, I'll tell you, it's funny. I started my career at Houghton Mifflin in Boston. So I had worked in book publishing for about six years before I moved west and took the job at Saint Michelle, and there are actually more similarities than you might think between working with wine and working with books, a bottle of wine and a book are both the result of someone craft and hard work and both provide enjoyment to those who partake of them. An author, much like a winemaker will often wait years to see the soda speak the fruits of his labors in the hands of others. And every story is unique. Just like every wine is unique. So I was pleasantly surprised to kind of see the similarities between working with books and working with wine of course, books more clearly transport you to a different time and place and into someone else's head. And often a good read reading a good book takes longer than enjoying a glass of wine. So it's really for me, it was really about it's always about connecting with whether it's a an author or a winemaker and finding the stories there and really helping to get what they're doing in front of in front of people. And and especially now the last three years that I've been editor director at Thomas and Mercer and really deeply involved with the authors in helping to develop their stories and get them ready for publication. It's kind of a continuation of what I feel. I've always been doing interesting Bubba, goldies story about how the the success he's head with. Thomas Mercer is really changed his life. And you know, the benefits was family and just the excitement. He has about seeing so many books. Red, you probably have some other stories of authors whose have left one job so they could rightful time or when when you think of people whose lives you've changed as authors who comes to mind? I can't. I can't speak for anyone directly, but certainly we do have a number of authors who have who have shared with us the changes in their life that have come from their success working with us and one person. I think in particular as Matthew Fitzsimmons who I mentioned earlier, who wrote the short drop, which was his debut that we published at the end of twenty fifteen. It was a phenomenal success was the first book and the Gibson von series were now just about to publish book for debris line. Later this fall and Matt was a high school English teacher in DC and has been able to become a full time novelist. And that's just thrilling when when that happens, I mean, that's that's really always our goal is for authors to to get such a great readership and to be continuing to build their. Dear so that they can really spend their time writing though the question I would ask you relates to my wife who's really loves mysteries and Sassi's reading all the time, and I've made the mistake sometimes I'll something will come across from you guys or somewhere else. I think there's a, there's a mystery. I bet Darlene love it and suggested to her and she'll know instantly while, no, that's not the kind of mystery I read. You know what, what a silly suggestion? And if you have friends and family that you're trying to, they come to you and say, you know, I'm out of books who's a good mystery writer, d, do you have any kind of a protocol of questions that help you quickly find out what sort of mystery reader the person is in how you might help connect them with somebody, they'll really enjoy. Well, it does come up a lot because as you can imagine, I do get asked for recommendation quite often. Any is it is pretty subjective. You know, I do. One thing I always liked to start with is if if I know somebody quite well and I know what kinds of books they like. It's one thing, but, but you know, finding out what kind of stories they're interested in characters. I think of my mother-in-law, for example, who lives here in Seattle. She loves detective novels and she particularly likes ones that are set in the Pacific northwest and often that have a level of humor to them. So she's a big fan of the Tracy Crosswhite series. But she also just loves the Leo Waterman books from GM. Ford is another author that we publish, and those books are setting Seattle and feature a PI who's pretty Don IQ and have a great humorous element. So she's someone who I know what she likes, and I know what I can recommend to her my own mother. On the other hand. Is is kind of all over the map in what she likes. But she particularly like mysteries that are a little more literary and maybe historical. So for example, she loved the aliens by Caleb Carr, which was came out several years ago, but it's a classic in that arena. So I gave her, we published a book several months ago called Edinburgh twilight by Carol Lawrence, which was debut set in turn of the century, Edinburgh, an early criminalist and gave that to my mom and she loved it and is eagerly awaiting the sequel which is coming out next week actually. So that's another example of where once you kind of know a general, ah, general sense of what someone's looking for in their in their sub genres in their characters. It's a little easier. Well, the only thing I wondered is this and so many people that I've talked to, they tend to read mysteries to take a break. I mean, Jack Kennedy famously red egg the Christie in. I can remember thinking. Well, that's, that's interesting. And I, I suspect there's a sense of traveling to a different world and having some relaxation and renewal as you're reading a misery, but for someone like you who's reading mysteries every day of your working life, what sort of books do you read when you need to get a break from your work? Well, I do read a lot of mystery thrillers fun. You know, one of the things, one of the reasons I think I have such a wonderful job that I've always been a fan of mysteries and thrillers. So I do still tend to read them a lot of them for fun by as you pointed out, sometimes it is nice to get a little bit of a pallet cleanser and read some different kinds of books. So I do a lot of nonfiction. I just started reading a book called hero of the empire by Kenneth Millar which is about Winston Churchill and. His time fighting and then being imprisoned and escaping in the boar war. And then I just also reading warlike by Michael dot j. who's one of my favorite literary novelists. I, I try as many as many readers do. I try to have a few books going at a time, so those those are the two I've got going now besides, besides the manuscript, I'm reading that are mysteries and thrillers. Are you read on a kindle or sometimes paper on your phone? What's what's the usual place that you're reading novels these days? Well, my is unfortunately are not super good for reading on my phone, but I do a pretty good mix between. You know, most mostly I'm reading on kindle just because it's easier for me to take that everywhere. And I love the reading experience, but I do still have books that I read in print. You know, particularly for me, sometimes the feeling of of an author, maybe a book that I'm rereading that I've had on the shelf for a long time. I liked the feeling of pulling that book down and reading again, but but really. Especially for when I'm traveling, which is quite a bit or when I'm reading manuscripts or when I, when I'm binge reading a series, you can't beat reading on the kindle. I've wondered if reading on a kindle, especially at night bid is is scarier than reading book on paper. Do you have any sense of that based on your experience? Well, you know, with with the, the light on the kid does it is a lot easier to read a kindle in the dark than it is to read a book. So I guess that that would make for a good scarier experience. We'll have to have somebody do research. Five. Let's see. Well, now I think you mentioned some books that are coming out. I like just giving people lots of books to think about it. Is there any books that we didn't talk about yet that you want to mention the either coming, the rest of this year or in two? Twenty nineteen. Yeah. I mean, I have. I have so many books on our list that I'm really excited about. But when I think about you, I kinda gained gave you a little bit of an overview of the next couple months of what I'm really excited about. When I look into early twenty nineteen. There's there's several that I really can't wait to release. I'll I'll give you three. One of them is the killer. Collective from berry is lower, which combines the worlds of his bestselling John rain series and Livia loan series into one big action packed international political thriller. So that should be quite exciting for fans of both series as well as new readers. The other is legal killer thriller, which is the follow up to his book that came out earlier this year called true fiction, which. The first book in the Anne Ludlow series, and these are incredibly fun, somewhat comic, somewhat satirical thrillers about a bestselling thriller writer who has to become the hero in his own life, and unwittingly becomes involved in in multiple international government conspiracies. So killer thrillers coming out in February, and that will be really fun. And then finally on on a sort of more serious note, Christopher Rice's book blood echo, which is the sequel to bone music and continues the story of Charlotte row who's the burning girl. She's a woman who was kidnapped and raised by serial killers escaped from them and is now kind of a super powered avenger of evil herself. And so that series is continuing on early next year and all three of those we just we couldn't be more excited about. Of course, there's many others on the list that I could go on and on, but but I'll leave it at those three. Those all have links to those in the show notes of people wanna follow up. They'll be easy to find in all. Is it true that all of the Thomas Mercer books are available for people that subscribe at kindle unlimited? Yes, have cracked and you also price the books in sane way, which I know all of my listeners. Appreciate one of the things that was most touching talking to Bob was we talked about the pricing in how you know the big five or continuing to pricey books in the crazy way. He said, yes, it's great for people to read e books to have them price that way. But he's gotten letters from people who say, I'm on cancer treatments in I read five mysteries of week, and I'm able to buy your books I can afford them in and just gratitude for for having the books that accessible to people in said, he said, you know, sometimes he's heard of people in large publishers. Say they. Want to devalue a book by pricing at too low. How can the book be any more valuable when it's acting people's lives like that and and is affordable? Yeah, I think it's really, you know, our our goal has always been make all of our books available to anyone who wants to read them at any time in any format that they wanna read them in. And part of that is, you know, removing or lowering some of the barriers to getting to those books. And I think I think that's, you know, Bob's point is a really good one. I think that also, you know, when you think about finding readers all over the world, it's something that we looked to do. I was fortunate enough to attend the Paris book fair earlier this year, Bob Baabda Goni was invited as a special guest there because they've been translating the Tracy Crosswhite books and and he was treated like a rock star. And it's it's interesting to think about readers around the world. Being able to find these books about a chemistry teacher turned homicide. Detective in Seattle, Washington, and I think that's the global power of stories and great stories are something that appeals to everyone. And so I think again, you know, just figuring out the best ways that we can make it that anyone who wants to pick up. These books can is really something we're working towards job. I have been speaking with grace, Doyle editorial director at and Mercer the mystery thriller and true crime imprint of Amazon publishing. Thanks very much. Gracie. Thank you so much for having me on. For go. I'd like to clean up an era I made last week. I quoted a comment from Dan Barnett about the end of the kindle scout program. Also, I'll have a link in the show notes, two books that were published by the crowd source kindle scout program before it was ended, but a dance EMMY the information about that. But I called him a by another last name and it turns out there three Dan's that I communicate with Dan Campbell, Dan Barnett, and Dan Reich. So sometimes when I moving quickly to cut and paste from emails into the show, I'm going to have to be careful when I see something from Dan because there's more than one of you out there and Paul jobs for the confusion will try to get it straight. Next week's guest will be Joseph Mark CEO publica the start up his publishing books using blockchain tokens. This is Len edge early for the kindle chronicles from ocean park, Maine. I really appreciate your taking the time to listen to my show. Have a great day. Bye.
Checking in on the broadcast TV upfronts in the age of streaming
"I'm Kim masters. And this is the Hollywood breakdown joining me as Matt Bellamy of the Hollywood reporter, and Matt the affronts, or in New York have been going on in New York. This is when advertisers are presented with various networks fall programming. It's, it's such an artifact in a way, you know, I used to go every year, it used to be this huge deal. What are the new shows? What are they going to be? And I'm not the only reporter I've seen on Twitter other reporters who cover TV talking about how now it just feels so so much like the certainly the broadcast networks, fall schedules are, are just this kind of diminished thing, obviously, the ratings have been drifting, drifting downward, there's still a ton of money that changes hands as a result of these presentations. But the nature of the presentations, was really different this year. Yeah. I mean you look at what Disney did they had a two hour presentation. And ABC was the very last almost an afterthought at the end. I mean these have essentially become brand plugs for these various channels network streaming services where everybody comes together in New York. And it's just a show essentially of what these content offerings are. And it's the time where all of these companies are desperately trying to create streaming services that people will pay for subscription based streaming services, and they kind of put that all aside for this week long presentation to add buyers where they say, no, no, no, what we really care about, is this twenty billion dollar ad business that they know is gigantic, but that is not the future of television. Yeah, I mean, the Disney one in particular was apparently so overwhelming. I thought that our colleague, Dan, Steinberg wrote a really hilarious. Article comparing it to a buffet at the golden chorale. Which I've never been to the golden corral for a buffet. But there were such there was so much presentation about ESPN and this and that and Disney. Plus I, you know, I think people felt like this kind of fog in a way coming out of it, because how do you even sort through it? And, and I have to say, I am looking at the cancellation of shows on various networks. I didn't even know where on in the first place. So, yes, the model is definitely changing, but the ad market is still there. It's not all doom and gloom people made a joke. You know, this is networks, circling, the drain, or writing the Titanic or pick your metaphor. But this is still a twenty billion dollar business. It is still the numbers are either flat or slightly going up because in this environment where there is so much brand pollution online with these digital networks YouTube. You don't know if you're at is going to run next to Nazi propaganda or inappropriate content. You have in television, a very safe environment still and people are willing to pay. For that. And increasingly they're paying more for that audience, because you can't find it. Elsewhere, even at diminished levels, there was some other news that came out of this, you know, Disney in the middle of it said, we are basically taking control of Hulu Comcast, eventually selling us their stake. It's a complicated deal. But going forward, Disney is running Hulu and that creates another place where Disney will stream content. And there was also kind of apparently attempts breakfast. You know, CBS has long had this bacon and egg breakfast is always one of the highlights of the up fronts, and Leslie Moonves used to come in chat up the reporters every year in the reporters always liked it because he was very personable and people had no idea of the kind of behavior. He had been alleged to have engaged in this year. Kelly, call took over, you know, he was a longtime person who has set the schedule in his now part of setting the, you know, picking up shows, and, you know, there were questions about bull, which is this show where the star, Michael Weatherly was alleged to have harassed? One of his female, his female co-star allies, a dish coup. She ended up being written out of the show. He asked about that. Kelly, call basically said, we think that Michael Weatherly learned from this experience, and I guess it got kind of tense on. I can understand why, you know, Steven Spielberg's Amblin has dropped it's up. It's piece of the show wants nothing to do with it at this point. You know, and you sort of say, okay, he learned a lesson. But meanwhile, she was still written out of the show and CBS. This comes with the culture at CBS that has seen repeated problems. The message to other stars on CBS if you're abusive all you have to do is apologize. We'll move on. Yeah. That seems a little bit lagging behind where we thought we were with the times up movement. Thank you, Matt, thank you. That's Matt Bellamy editorial director of the Hollywood reporter he joins me this Monday at one thirty on the business. I'm Kim masters. And this is the Hollywood breakdown.
Amazon picks best books of 2020 so far
"Your destination for gadgets and gear I'm friskin. The editorial staff at Amazon is out with its list of the best books of twenty twenty so far there's a wide range of categories. Parents can peruse the list of books for children for different age ranges, but there's an overall top twenty list and Amazon books. Editorial Director Sarah Gilman says a top choice. Is the girl with a loud voice by Hobby? and. It's about a fourteen year old Nigerian girl who is basically. into enslavement by her father, after her mother, who really believes in education passes away rounding out the top three are hidden valley road inside the mind of an American family by Robert Coker, and the ballot of Song, birds and snakes by hunger games, authors Suzanne Collins. On more at Amazon dot com slash best books so far. You can find us at texting DOT COM. I'm Fred Friskin now this. How many companies out there have continued to innovate when it comes to building a better radio? I'm red fin host of TEX donation and I'm here to tell you about the new CDC sky wave. SP radio from the wonderful people at sea crane. Baba Descru- crew really love radio, and it shows in this new compact model that is packed with features beyond Great Am, FM Reception Unsound You can tune into shortwave signals from around the world. Listen to Ham. Radio operators. And more, it's the radio you'll turn to every day and in emergencies it will run for nearly three days on just to double A. Batteries hair, the sleep timer with the new soft speaker three and you've got the perfect radio nightstand. Of course it can wake you up to click on C.. Crane at texts donation, dot, com, and put in the code text nation for free flashlight with your order. They Love Radio and you'll love secretly.
How Immigrant Entrepreneurs Pave the Way for Foreign VC Investments
"This is Steve Film editorial director for knowledge a warden today we're speaking with Wharton Management Professor Zeke Hernandez about his new research on how immigrants this podcast is brought to you by knowledge award broad thing we were trying to understand now of course every papers very specific so in this paper we had a very specific hypothesis which is that one mechanism lies industry so there's been quite a few studies before mine of course that have shown that venture capital investment is very unlikely to happen to record levels over the last decade and that this is an important and you say also puzzling trend why is that well it's important because the solicitation of capital to fund startups allows both investors and entrepreneurs to find each other better than before and it reflects that the sources of entrepreneurial them that explained our this broad question was that immigrant entrepreneurs play a really crucial role in facilitating cross-border venture capital investor and ways to foreign venture capital investments. Zeke things joining us thank you it's good to be here in your paper you know that cross-border investments by VC firms have risen the US or the UK Israel perhaps more recently but not really reflecting a broad variety of source countries and now we're ideas and talent and also capital are more globalized than before so even a few years ago most of the high growth start ups came from just a few countries in the world in that change a lot and grow very fast so that's that's why it's important the reason it's puzzling is because the venture capital industry is very famously very local depends because it's actually really hard to get information about startups and to monitor their performance right so if you think about investing in a publicly held company you can find there within more than about forty to sixty miles from the headquarters of the VC firm right so silicon valley investors invest in the Valley Boston investors in Boston has countries differ from one another and so yeah that's why observing this is both important but it's also puzzling to be able to explain that so what was the main media room right you invest in startup abroad of course obviously you're very far away but but to boot to add right you have other kinds of risks meet the founders and develop a relationship with them before you invest and then after you invest proximity is really important to monitor the performance of the start up to me to provide financial statements you know they exist but how do you even know that a startup exists right and so what proximity does is it allows you as an investor to find out what new start ups or there advice when things come up etc and so all of this is just to point out that the puzzle is that international venture capital investment kind of violates this proxy beyond geographic separation so just because countries are different you take on cultural differences legal differences at other institutional factors that come just be rushing you set out to answer with this research yeah so I think in line with what I just said broadly we wanted to know why it is VC firms would take on the risks of and Cetera et Cetera. And I've actually talked to a lot of these who who confirmed this right who told me look I I really don't invest much outside of where I am why does this happen investing in startups from other countries and importantly where they invest because as we looked at the data we notice that as as we compared firms and for a variety of reasons I end up investing in US startups that have Indian entrepreneurs as founders then I'm more likely in the future to invest in will later invest in startups located in the country where the immigrant founders are from so to give a general example if I'm a venture capital firm in Silicon Valley that there was a lot of variation knew where they invest so some invested in Israel Canada China India right so how do we explain also the destination of their investments so that was kind of the the Indian startups that are located in India your study focuses specifically on the role that immigrant entrepreneurs play in this scenario harder they facilitate these investments and and what I mean by that is that the more venture capital firm in this case in the US invest in startups that have immigrant founders the more that firm right so the mechanism is actually pretty straightforward. I I imagine most people could guess what we're trying to get up but you know an entrepreneur has knowledge about the I'm country and connections in that country right so if I'm a venture capitalists and I invest in a start up that an entrepreneur from India or China station so so what did you find in the study what were your specific results yes so in our study it's important to say that we had immigrant entrepreneurs the differences of course those entrepreneurs will know about business opportunities not just say in the US or in the same country where the venture capitalists is located but I'll founders they already know so we go back to the immigrant entrepreneurs it's not that really shocking to think that venture capitalists will also source deals our Israel has founded then over time just because I interact with that individual become exposed to the knowledge and connections of that person startups in India right so the greater the count of Investments but what's really important is also to note that we found that this effect only happened if the the Indian entrepreneurs in the US were first generation immigrants meaning they had come directly from India there was no effect for second or later generation data on the investments of US based venture capital firms in Indian startups and so what we found is that the more up and the other final result we found is that if you make an investment in India because you're exposed to Indian entrepreneurs here in the US so in their homeland and so it's just a way to kind of extend that network and that's basically the mechanism the we used to explain the are experts you're less likely to CO invest with a local Indian venture capitalists you kind of go it alone probably because you're willing to take on a little bit more risk so for example we found that if the venture capitalist is exposed to Indians from a certain region of India say west India it makes more be that the exposure is very specific to the to the region right that the knowledge and connections of these immigrants are very specific to where they spent time in India a venture capitalist invested in startups here in the US that were founded by Indian entrepreneurs the more they later invested in inconvenient empirical context to answer the questions we we had so one is that Unlike say immigration from a lot of European nations in fact if I you know stepping back a little bit away from immigrant entrepreneurs we know from previous research venture capitalists actually source new deals in part from yeah so it it it wasn't necessarily because we had a predilection for India anything the main reason is that just India offers a very good vestments in west India than in other parts of India or if you're exposed to southern Indians than you make more investments in south India than in west India or other parts and so it seems to states in that way the other thing is that Indian immigrants have a substantial rate of entrepreneurship in the especially High Tech Entrepreneurship and so and so all of those are really good empirical reasons why we chose India and if we tried to do this result with other nationalities so you take my last name like Hernandez Indian rate so his last name is from south India right but a last name like Noor Car or Patel is from western India right and these comes from linguistic and other historical differences that are pretty persistent and so the names actually allow us to know the sort of origins of these individuals perhaps the Indians gave you information where you don't feel that it's as risky to go it alone well you you mentioned India's the context of the study oh why that particular country oh that's important because we needed enough observations of of sort of entrepreneurs in sectors it would receive venture capital funding and so that means that we have a large group of Indians that are either first generation or second generation but not you know we don't have a long Taylor and Indian immigration into the US is relatively recent And by that I mean in the last thirty years or so Indians it might have the ethnic Indians but didn't actually live or spend time in India didn't grow up there we also found some very specific results that are kind of interesting investing in India and another firm not investing right and so we need a setting where we can observe a firm interacting with individual Indians right like if your last name is by Chandran like my co author and I should have said that earlier my co author on this paper is start off by Chandran who who is in for near that has a lot of Indian immigrants than that might stimulate investment in India but that exposure at the population level doesn't really explain there's another particularity of India that actually is really interesting to me and it's that yeah you looked at firms interactions with individual immigrants as opposed to the broader immigrant population. Why is that important yeah it's certain countries so if I if I'm exposed let's stay with Indian since that's kind of our working example if I'm exposed to you know I'm in a place like New Jersey or number the result I told you about how we know where the Indians are from we know if they're from like west India or South India well it turns out that one way you know that is from last names right so it turns out that things that are all those previous papers have in common is that they looked at exposure to what I would call the population of immigrants from probably knowledge connections experience as opposed to some you know some other like ethnic preference or something that that would be an alternative explanation exposure at the individual level that allows me to know if you were to use a medical term sort of infected with the knowledge and connections can kind of distinguish between the effect of the first generation versus others and find that the effect is primarily driven by the first generation it tells us that this is really about in for why we see this result you also looked at the rule that immigrants play at the VC firms himselves can you explain that sure yeah this is this is history there and so that avoids some some confounding effects from immigrants being here and being more kind of embedded into the culture of of the united away that's GonNa Influence you later in your paper you note that this impact on venture capital investment happens with first generation generation that has the effect well for the partners of the venture capital firms it's kind of the opposite it's actually the second generation partners that are sort of extra and we found that in general that's true but there's a twist here remember how for the Indian entrepreneurs we found that it's the first right that doesn't represent one country that could be you know dozens of countries so anyway India was convenient for all those reasons unlike previous studies in this area a little more convoluted I didn't mention it at first but we also wanted to see what happens if the firm itself has Hi to firms that say are headquartered in the same location and are exposed to the same number of Indian immigrants at the population level might behave differently so we observe one for wouldn't because there were there are previous papers that have looked at how immigrants effect foreign investments of companies General I'm not talking about venture capital but just meaningful business and and personal experience India and a second or later generation immigrant doesn't right and so when we and venture capital was really great in that sense because we can observe this as if as a venture capitalist you invested in a startup founded by Indians versus not and you might be in the same location but it's receptive to the information provided by the first generation immigrant entrepreneurs and the first generation partners they don't seem to be extra receptive there immigrant entrepreneurs but not with later generation immigrants why is it so right the reason that's a key finding is just because it helps validate in policy yeah so I think that perhaps the broadest implication is just that immigration your prime to be interested in the homeland but you don't have the know-how on your own to make investments and so what the immigrant entrepreneurs are bringing kind of actively a direct investment rights with think of multinational firms setting up a subsidiary somewhere I've done some of that work others have done some of that work but one of the Brinson its management team right so if I'm a venture capital firm and I have a partners that are Indian in this case does that make a difference and you could expect please a really important role in the diffusion the allocation of capital across countries so to put it perhaps differently it's just that migration is a leading capital that's productively invested so immigrants play a role in that huge part of the economy that is increasing the stock of capital so that that's a very broad implication of course then you know one of the best things you can do is have immigrants right now of course it takes time for this to happen so it's not it's not an the economy Most of the debate circles around questions of jobs in labor right how do immigrants affect jobs wages of local workers do they create it might because say I might be more receptive more attuned to India or opportunities in India just because I know something about the homeland the the immigrants that go to the receiving country then facilitate capital coming back into the country that sent them out in the long run again this study oh and scale and provide jobs so it could be that in some ways immigration can be a form of long-term investment so to speak in that that that mechanism I mentioned earlier of knowledge and connections and is really quite straightforward right a first generation immigrant has first-hand knowledge and connections has spent time in this had but speculation that I have or that we have excuse me is that probably if you're a second generation Indian you are interested we've just looked at whether these immigrant entrepreneurs facilitate more venture capital investment we haven't looked at the performance of those investments see that again in the long run one of the gains that sending countries get is that they get more capital right in this case in the form of venture capital that helps startups from that country cater of where firms are going to invest capital many years later right and the reason that matters is because if you're say a country right Oh and develop so I'm not going to speak to that there's a big literature that's that's I think beyond this conversation but what this study is outing is that it seems to be a- An investment with an immediate payoff right but it matters because in policy discussions when we talk about how immigrants up to the study well the most obvious that my co author and I have thought about of courses that in this study I described today be what these immigrant entrepreneurs are bringing more redundant I can't be sure about that but it's an explanation that seems to fit the data so what implications does your study half `immigration and for the reasons I explained earlier but we should also see if this holds for other nationalities like you know for the US the biggest destinations of jobs etc We don't usually talk about a capital right but if you think about the economy the economy doesn't just grow because of labor issues it grows because there's also atyrau interest right and and is complementary to your interest in India if you're already a first generation partner in the firm you have your own connections and knowledge me and I think we're also aware that we have a sample in this case just of Indian entrepreneurs and Indian startups by itself doesn't put the nail on the coffin of whether that happens but it suggests that we also need to think about that so what question or questions do you think would
Ronan Farrow versus NBC News
"Oy This week he has his book out a fairly long awaited book about you know his drama trying to break the Harvey Weinstein Story and what happened at NBC News. I'm Kim Masters and this is the Hollywood breakdown joining me as Matt Bellamy of the Hollywood reporter and Matt as You well know because we Ronan Farrow was the Hollywood reporter covered thank you that's Matt Bellamy editorial director of the Hollywood reporter he joins me this Monday at one thirty on the business I'm Kim Masters and this is the Hollywood breakdown doc Matt Lauer and didn't do anything setting aside the Ronan Farrow allegations and I will note that Noah Oppenheim who I I believe they perceived I think NBC union knew that Andy Paraphrasing. I'm not gonNA answer it yeah I mean the the Matt Lauer stuff is really really tough for NBC because it appears there is a pattern of misconduct or at least Oppenheim the president of NBC News about what happened the staff is obviously very upset that potentially they knew about this egregious misconduct efforts to leverage Matt Lauer against NBC to get the peace killed were successful and if that's true that is absolutely a fire murky about where he stood on the peace and and suggesting that certain stuff that was very sensational it was finally published wasn't really that interesting and people don't really know Harvey Weinstein is wire editor to try to leverage the dirt that the enquirer had on Matt Lauer to try to kill the Harvey Story at NBC Question Really is
STL222: The call of the solid-wood chessboard
"Shop Talk Live to to to I. That's right. Shop Talk Live listeners. We've got a great show for you today I'm joined by Mike Kekich an Isa Cups Ellis and we talked all things table saw safety making a chessboard out of Solid Wood. What woodworking a healthcare worker could do while on Cova assignment in a hotel room and how to saw a blimp shape object in half. Don't forget to sign up for our next Webinar. This one is featuring contributing editor Michael Fortunate Will Be August Twentieth at seven PM. Eastern. And he will be talking about refining your design using mockups. Head on over to find dot com slash shop class to sign up for that right now. Stick, around got a great show for you after a brief word. As a shop talk live listener, you know that if a project is worth doing, it's worth doing right Pony Jorgensen takes the same pride in crafting their clamps as you do crafting your furniture. Pony Jorgensen clamps are made using only the highest quality materials and the inspect each one to guarantee consistency and performance. Head on over to Pony Jorgensen DOT COM to explore their range of pipe clamps, bark lamps, tank lamps, and one of my all time favorite tools of all time would enhance crews. Pony Jorgensen makers of clamps without compromise since nineteen o three. Hey shop talk live listeners ticket deeper dive into woodworking topics. You love when you join the fine woodworking unlimited community. From in-depth video workshops, projects and plans, tips and techniques. You'll find everything you need to know to master your craft try unlimited now and enjoy fourteen day free trial. Find out more at find woodworking dot com slash members. An Isa Hi. Hi here we are in I. Think I'm very excited. We're not your children. You're around people not your children. Yeah. I, I cannot tell you excited. Buying it. It's true. Yes. Yes. I'll drive in for that. Yes. Commute Ninety Minute Commute. Yes. Yeah. Have you been doing pretty good. How about you? Sober for more conversation there. Have you been in the shop at all? No. Yes. Very rarely when I can just but I did go on my first shoot. Oh, last week. And? Do you. Remember what buttons work on the Cameras I was surprisingly. Not Rusty. Setting up the equipment. where I thought the rest was going to start to show I I. Will Mike Mike ends up looking at the photos before the thumbnail meetings. I felt a little rusty while I was shooting. was she rusty? I haven't seen them. That's why my hesitating about this because about telling you guys this. But I I did feel a little rusty with the shooting. And but the mask had something to do with it too. I think because it. I started telling you guys about this a little bit ago It's so disorienting to have the mascot me. You can't Chris didn't wear one because he was in photographs and We stayed pretty clear each other but I had a mask on the whole time. and. First of all the glasses fog up. Yes the the. The big screen on the back of the camera fogs up and It's just it's very disorienting. I feel as though I can't see or hear as well when I have the mascot. Or here yeah. It just throws out where you wearing the mask. Were you. where else would I wear them out I? Don't know how it's affecting. You're seeing your. You wouldn't think that it would. It's counter intuitive, but it throws off my other senses. I just taught this weekend at Connecticut Valley Little. We can handle skills class and that's the second time I've been back in the class I was it mark Adams for a week or so in both cases you're wearing the mask and it's super tough unsurprised any. We can actually understand what I'm saying because I tend to be soft spoken anyway, and then with a mask and you can't see but you do start to hyperventilate at the end of a demo twenty minute demo or maybe it's too much carbon dioxide or something. The problem is. I try really hard to remember everybody's name like on the first day on a week long class of May take day and a half but when everyone's wearing a mask. It's really there's facial recognition anymore it's just you go by t shirt designs, and if they wear different t-shirt shirt the next day I have no idea who you terminate everyone to wear exactly the same clothes tomorrow all week I again I get thrown off when Mike and I just went to Franco's. Where we get pizza around here and she's like I walk into it was like cops out. She's like, Yeah Avocado I was like, how do you recognize me? knows. been here. Three months because I've been working from home and. Thing over my face, but she still gets my autorite. So sith green. Talks in woodworking. I feel the need to get confirmation from Mike. He's a boss now. I was wondering my say that we're. Asked him. Mike and I had a small discussion beforehand Henry he said you can make fun of me for yeah. Well. You know the truth and matter Oh we will. Always considered betsy Liz my bosses and they still are. Truth be told yes I'm no boss. I can't say yes after that not going to. I'm a little alarmed I'm. I'm. So there's this whole. There's a little bit of a transition happening here, and so we should fill the right. And then I'll tell you what I mean. Yeah. Okay. So so Tom. is now the. Boss of the bosses yet. So He's editorial director which he was I think of US been. Editorial director of other Franchises district, right. So, you have stepped up. Yes and you are a little bit like a half a step because I. Kind of got bumped up to creative director which ended up not really meaning anything. But I'm just taking a little more. Duties at Tom was doing before he moved up to his thing. So it's just it's a baby step. Kind of you're the editor. Well, this is the thing is just like. So if the top of the mast had that person's title is traditionally the editor because it's always someone from the editorial end as opposed to the art end so. When art person takes over that position I kind of like staying creative director because I think that's more appropriate for what I'm doing has like if someone says Oh Mike Editors on you know on. But. Okay. So but then it was suggested to me but said, you can do that if for consistency and people don't that's all great but then it was suggested to me by Tom's boss. What if it's? Editor and creative. Director. Bam. Yeah Do what she says anyway. Mastering commander kind of a thing is it? This is escalating pretty quickly. Own. To Master and commander. Can Pretty much do anything I want. Let's answer some questions. Okay boss. Are. Here we. From Bill. Okay. So we have we have two questions I put into question one These are both Tim. Saw Safety Questions We had a really good discussion two episodes ago about table safety brought more questions to. Figure we should get right to him. From Bill. Assuming the table saw has arriving knife or even a splitter place would there still be the possibility of kickback and? A ripping operation. My understanding is that the writing knife virtually eliminates the occurrence kickback. Is this the correct understanding? if so, what advantage does ripping on a band saw have over ripping on a table saw if any. If I'm ripping aboard in half in my home shop, my preference has been to do ripping operations on the table saw equipped with arriving knife because one I'm under the impression it's safe to the larger table surface makes the operation feel more stable three. My Band doesn't have a very good fence. So. If M I safe ripping on the table. So when amusing arriving knife or Splitter Irma unwittingly hanging out there. So let's let's hit that one writing night definitely makes it safer. Yeah. because really what's happening the biggest problem? If you're ripping whiteboard in half at the table, saw in your releasing a lot of internal tensions in the board typically both half of the board one a cup towards each other as they passed the blade and that's the problem at the table soft the board cupping. Away from the fence into the blade in that context of the teeth that are coming up. That's a super super dangerous situation that said if you're even with the arriving knife if you're ripping and while the board is distorting, you're still GonNa get burn marks are still going to get a really rough non. True surface. and. So. Yeah. So I would you know and you make a good point it's like, okay my band saw's smaller. Doesn't have a good fence or you know I think Were the bigger table software bigger boards I. think that's a good point but. In a ideal situation, it wouldn't be my first choice of a tool the table saw. It would or wouldn't there would not. So different ways around it if you don't, I mean basically A. Recall that sabre saw Jigsaw with the hand held guy with the lady goes up and down. That's basically a hand held ban saw. So if you have a really good aggressive laid for would bosh makes really really good blades for Jig saws they cut pretty quickly. That might be a good way to break down aboard basically and. Style surface. Yeah. If you're worried about that yeah, that might be okay What do you do? Are you ever like ripping whiteboards like down the center the Table Saw A wide thin board maybe. But a super thick. Two inch or a quarter. Thick. Piece of Oak probably not but that's gets a little scary. Yeah. So. I did a short. Stint as a climbing guide at one point, and one of the one of my friends who was also a guide said something to me when I first started guiding, he said just assume. Every client. Is Out to kill themselves an you. Just fine. And It was. It was really good advice. Because one of the first or at that's a different story but it's also something like I'm my kids are just nine and ten right now. But even when we're driving or when they're out riding their bikes. I. Tell them assume that everybody on the row well, they're not driving when we're driving and I'm I'm already trying to give them driving lessons. But when we're riding our bikes on the road, which we've recently started to do when I choose the roads and I'm like constantly. Saying do this watch out for this watch out for that? I tell them just assume that everybody on the road is the worst driver ever and they want to kill you they want to run you. And so. I guess I'm telling you this because that's the way I am approaching. The Table Saw I. Think you I looked back at that one the clip that. Was the impetus for this question in use that you use the. Table saw as the final dimension tool versus a rough milling tool, and that's the way I operate to I'm. Pretty healthily wary of the table saw. So I just assume. There can always be kicked back and I'm whenever I'm cutting something on the table. Saw I'm assuming that there's the possibility of kickback so the arriving knife definitely helps, but it doesn't doesn't eliminate kickback I. Don't think it eliminates kickback so like We should get that out of the way right there. It's possible if kickback even with arriving knife or. It's possible kickback before the stock gets to the riding. Knife. You have. Upwards of five inches before that stock is actually going to hit the safety of arriving knife. Right? Yeah. So. That opens you up a little bit there. The other thing for me have have you ever had a board bind on your having knife. To the point where. It closed up and you can't push it. Yeah and I don't care I. Don't WanNa do that again I like everything like the accident where they airbag did its job still not cool. Yeah. I don't want any part of it. Also, you're trying to turn the table saw while you're kinda mentally freaking out and holding the peace in place and it just no. So, there's definitely things that can go wrong with arriving knife in place the same way that when I'm behind us all stop I, assume that that cartridge. Isn't gonNA to Fi-. You can't. Yes. Sir You're safe now. I think an for a band saw if you're fences wonky, don't worry about the fans just strike line on your board and a relatively sharp blade. You should be able to track it pretty well, and it is a small tabletop but I would definitely have some sorta outfit support for your band. So that's just as important. The ban saw than it is at the table saw. So, if you have out feed support your bandsaw and you're in as you're feeding at. at the very beginning of its a long board to get it level it can be a little tough but once you got a going and the board on that outfield side, I don't think that. That's not too bad. That wouldn't be a deal breaker for me. Also it's like a really long board. Why like what is like maybe like if it's like one dining table every once every. Five years, it's a good point. Or maybe a bed frame but other than that most parts aren't more than. Forty eight fifty inches for most furniture parts. So you know super long stock, it isn't concerned. But for me, it's not a common concern. The more that, I, think about it to idol. RIP ABOARD DOWN, the Middle Very often. If I'm. If I'm getting a piece out of a board. I'm going to draw a line where that grain matches up with what I want it to be, and then I take it to the band saw and cut on that line, which is probably not parallel to the. Very rarely but I am also if I have this stock and I need to get these pieces out I'm thinking about shelf I did for my wife. Read one board and lots of rips I I. Did rip on the table saw with the rival knife and the garden place. And the moment, I couldn't do it with a garden place with like actual. Guard yeah in place I stopped ripping. That's when I took it to the band. So because I was doing long pieces Acord Arash, it was heavy didn't feel like I can I Build. Didn't feel like I. Can do it safely on the band saw. But by the time it was to the point where I couldn't get get the guard with push stick. That's when it was small enough that the band saw was able to handle it no problem. Yeah. I you know I think it's True in that in the. Shop, there's ideally safe situations. and. There's other situations which are not ideally safe and I think you always need to continue to weigh your comfort when you're doing those things and the other thing is I think if the more you're increases about the pitfalls. Of doing things a certain way I? Think that would inform. The way you go about things as well. That's that might be the harder learning curve. You doing something that it isn't safe but you don't know it's not safe. And you don't have any discomfort doing it then I think that leads to. Bad. Things happening. All right. So let's let's go to the second table saw safety question because he does feel uncomfortable about something this is from Jim. I appreciate your recent conversation about table saw safety. While you were talking I wondered about two situations both of which I've seen in fine woodworking videos. Can you comment about the risk level of putting your hand on top of a board for downward pressure when running over a data stack or on the Joyner I'm always trying to avoid doing this but I wonder whether I'm being overly cautious. I think Jim you're being exactly the amount of cautious that you should be. Yeah. Yeah at Mark Adams? School. You know they they have a rule that the hand never gets closer than you know three inches to any type of cutter whether it's a table saw later router joyner planner, and the other thing they always talk about is If whatever board you're working on is suddenly not there. What is GonNa Happen to your hand in relation to the blade. So if you have a hand giving putting downward pressure on board as you're joining in that hand is going over that lay, but it's an instinct boards. So it's safe. But if something happens in that board is no longer there and your hand is GonNa go down into the blade. That's a super, not safe situation. So I would say what he's describing there is if you have your hand on top of board. At the table saw with a non through cuts, I'm guessing like. In that board isn't there. That's not good I think you can pressure over the blade but if you've got a push pat in your hand, you can still. Good than the push pads going into the blade but I don't want that to happen either but. It's tough data blade. There's a tremendous amount of upward force because you're removing so much stock in that White Cut, the board does want to lift up. If it's super problematic and you can attach a feather board to your repents to give yourself that support right over the blade. That's not a bad thing. But push pads yeah. I I'm a fan of push pats. Yeah. More and more so. I have nothing to add to that I agree. Completely. Horrid. Let's see. Question number two is from Matt. I. Love this question. This. Kind of reminds me of something my son would ask in the back of a car on the way home. I quote. How would you go about safely sawing blimps object in half down along side I. Love this question. The objects are too thick to cut on the table saw and after being cut in half will be put back together. So I, didn't want to risk flipping on the table saw and miscellaneous cut. I ended up building a sled with two forty, five degree angles butted up against each other. I've already got picture since you. there would be self, so it'd be self centering. The blimp would be self centering but this meant that the object would be going through the band saw blade with no support on either end. So the front and back are curved as well. So he didn't WanNa push it into the saw without there being a support on the front he's worried about tipping down. So I use sixteen gauge Brad nails to attach calls to the top and clamp them down giving essentially four points of pressure and locking the piece in place I've used a feather board heap the sled tight against the fence. When the blade near the clamp shut the saw off and move clamp to the other side to finish the cut it worked great but it didn't really enjoy hiding behind my mind or sauce station and using a long push sticking case the object became a football size the missile. God only knows with mad as making but it's yeah, it's awesome. What is he making? I. Don't know. Do you want to see the picture of the? Yeah. Let me see it again. So. Why? I kind of hate how much I've been thinking about this question. Because he's really he's almost there with it but like one of my other suggests the only other suggestion other than a couple of tweaks to make his. sled thing a little more efficient would be like just an old fashioned miter box. Kind of thing where you're just. Trying it. But. I didn't see that coming out of you. Because you know like hand to a person well, there's no way you're putting that rounded object on the table saw no matter how thick it is nothing but. He can also, he's got a pretty good system there and he can put a stop on the back of it and you would. The way has it. You would only cut through the stop. You'd have the curfew stop, but it would still hold it in place because the rest of it would be the rest of the stop would be attached to the sled. So, he could put a stop behind it. Okay just because I want to say before Mike does. Drink the whole. What did you say Mike. Nothing what you say. Like a paper joint just cut it I while square. Yes. I said I want to save before Mike does and I looked at him and he said. you know at that occurred to me as we were talking. So it was like a fresh. Bike insight. And then even though a new, you're GONNA say it. As boss I really should occur. I Apologize. My guess. But that's what you're GonNa say yes explain what that is. Okay. So paper join you would have the pieces apart. On the band saw or the table saw whatever. while. They were still square. Put a piece of paper between or glue piece of grocery bag or just newspaper whatever between the pieces glue on both sides put them together. Do you're turning or whatever you're doing to Olympia Fai this thing? And then you can just split them apart with a knife. And then you don't have you're not missing that Kerr flying from the ban saw. There's some like paper gunk on there to get rid of. I guess hand plane offer joint offer something. If she did high glue could you just sort of? So can wipe it off. Every hide glue person was yelling that as you said it so okay. Yeah. Yeah and it's A. It's a common turning technique times if you're doing quarter columns or you know a case piece or something, that's how it's it's done so. Also. Couldn't he uses sled? This lead is pretty awesome they came up with. The problem with his lettuce, he has these kind of Long V. blocks running the length, the sled front to back and so when you have that long continuous via blocking, you put this round object on it. It's only hitting at the center. Where instead of a long continuous fee block if he just had a V. toward the front and Avi toward the back. With the blimp on top and it's really being supported at the front and the back as opposed to in the center. Point. But that's not as cool paper tape. So. You still get credit for that Ben. Yeah. But that's the smarter way Paper tape paper joint is this simplest. Solution the most elegant solution, right? Yeah. Why are we cutting these apart? What is he making? That's the thing like. It's not just why he's cutting part will what GotTa send in the. Chris this is this is going somewhere wacky and we WANNA go again. Some going on here. All right. Isa Segment Potpourri Oh we need a theme song. We do. Segment pary. There was tune. Yes. And when you guys listen when other people listen to it, that will have been a really cool moment. Now do it. I'm disappointed in myself. I have nothing supremely stupid to share as far as smooth move I actually looked and you had me right one down hints for you was it and it was It was the one you did last time I've gotten I. Don't think I have. I have to get in the shop a little bit more. So come up with more. Move so I was on photo shoot with Crisp expert last week and Every time I go there. He's pulling out some other trick that he does and I've never seen him do this he was drilling holes in. A shelf to put this these little shelf brackets into the shelf and have them adjustable. and. So on the. On. The drew press instead of clamping offense to the DRO press table. He had one of those magnets like the flip magnets really strong when you just he? Screwed A. Wooden, straight edge to that, and he just plopped that down in magnetized it to the table. That's I. Now like Super Simple. Ask you seen people do that before. We go to go for it has a Tavoy for. Yep Tico Tico, you take you. He has like. He's a good guy. He's a great to yes but he's a little wacky. Okay. Yeah. All right. Like in the good. Yes. Okay. He has a a one that he sells those. Yeah. Who Knew? To go to. Law I thought it was super cool. Yeah. So easy quick and. Experts like that, and you can't you can't shop but that CNN. Just. The product of forty years of woodworking and yeah and he's cleaning out his shop. He's got this weird retirement thing in his head. And so he's been cleaning out a shop and there's a lot more space than usual and he's downsizing all his cabinets in he's. Making little cabinets for different things to be even more efficient than he already is and so he's got some. He has new cool stuff to peruse while he's setting up for the next shot but also it was kind of cool. So he's still in his existing, Chop your son in the new one. Yeah I think he's all talk and but you've seen his new tool just a tool cabinet. Yeah. But it's really nice. It's really nice. It's really nice. I did watch him a couple of times he's been with that other cabinet for. Probably, two decades, right. And I did see him. Reaching in the wrong spot a couple of times. Getting used to the digs. Is really like we're also wired to do the same thing over and over again and takes a while to kind of reroute. To Your brain PGA he put in his old tool cabinet up for sale and it wasn't that much. was very reasonable and I like really wanted that. I would have bought. All the tools he had in it, I would just have to buy a copy of each steadily told chest. You just have to outfit exactly the same way. It has like was FCC backstory Christian Beckford in chip carving across. Horizontal divider. That would be cool. Okay. So I I was going to all time favorite tool, and then I just remembered my smooth move. And my Smith was bad. It's really bad. And it has led to my dining room table. Splitting No. At at a joint at the center glue. Line. Which I've always been suspicious of I. Don't think I got a really good joining job. It being such a long board. I feel like I I never. I've always been weary of them. And So when I When I attach them to the trestle, the the the troubles which act as the stretcher yet. I routed out extended slots for the screws. It's pain in the middle. So there's there's there's one stationary screw in the middle and the outside Iran I probably gave him. I'd say three quarters of an inch play. Okay. What I felt like was enough. Well. I. Haven't working from home. and. My Laptop. was. Rocking on the table. House. That's new. And led to me looking at it also, there's a big. Hump. there. Because it's it's pretty humid right now. So everything's swollen. And I look and there's a you know I. I don't know if pulled on a ruler or a book, and there's there's a sizable hump there. Right at the glue joints right at the glue. Okay. And I think. Slacking with or I was actually on the phone or something with Barry and I was like holy crap. I just discovered this thing and and. I. Made note of it and I was GONNA come back to it well, the next day. I come back and I feel a little. Rich and that middle glued. Joint. And The table had split there. So here's the smooth move. The smooth move is multifaceted, but first off I didn't get a good joining. I think I should've glued. I well, for the joint thing I should've gone over with a hand plane. At the time I wasn't confident enough with my hand plane skills to not make that edge worse right? What I just got off the joint. Yeah. That's a tough job. Yeah. So I should have done that I also I think a glued up all four boards at once. and maybe I didn't get pressure over the joint. I also used hide glue that I found in the shop and the old shop are which could very well have been. Placed in there when I graduated High School, I? Don't know. So. It's up for debate whether the glue was so good. I. Think That's GonNa wind up. Saving them. But it put the real smooth move was. I used. The Craig Cabinet screws to attach the tabletop. Like the flat bottom. Yeah. And I thought okay. Well that that that will that won't dig in. DIG In so I didn't use washers. Under those screws of the spacer or even better would have been Chris Beckford designed leave our. SPACER washers for the very slotted. WASHERS. So one of those screw heads had dug in and was no longer moveable. Got It. Okay. So when it expanded this summer, the whole thing just went up. And then he was too much for that week glue joint to take got it and it's napped. Okay. So what I am going to do and I'm open for discussion on this. From from the panel, please don't send me. All your idea. I. Think what I'M GONNA. Do is I am going to get some hide glow. And squeegee it in there as much as humanly possible. You Shop Vac US whatever use whatever can get more glued joint. Blue in that joint. Clampitt up across that not leave it. Get as even as humanly possible. Hopefully, it'll be able give it flush and not have to hand play in or whatever. Then once it solid. Take it off, flip it over and do some pockets cruise along the bottom. Just belt suspender. Okay. why are we not just popping that part? Because I don't want now. Okay. I'm scared Mike. Because I would probably. Entail, re leveling and refinishing the. I feel like. The chances of getting that. Flush and level. Are Far less than getting it with just that just doing the split. So how much did you think it's along its length you think it's actually split. To. Okay NFL defeat out of five out of six probably. Don't have bread board ends right. If, you can take it off. That was a luck. If you can take it off in just remounted. To give it the room it needs to move. Oh. Good. Well. That's where it is. Now I've just undone all of the screws on the sides. Yeah, and it's flat and it's I don't notice it and but I feel like. It's GONNA unflushed. You know I feel like eventually those. Lever for now. Yeah. How visible is it now that is kind of settled back in place who are pointed out to everyone. Relieve the pressure did it kind of flat? Awards. Well compared to the nineteen seventy-one. Yeah Seventeen Ninety one house I should say that's a big difference seventeen, ninety one. Nothing flat nothing. Yeah. I would not consider that top to be an action. Item. You put that low on the list. Are Like I wouldn't even matter. I wouldn't let that fix. Stop you from starting on another project you really WANNA start up. On Happen Yeah. Yeah to me that fixes like all right I'm going to do this today. It's two hours. If I can get some hide glue in there and get. And get it flush. Move. On. With. My, life. But I'm not gonNA stress over. Style. Mike We. we'll just because I like to say people's ideas before they say them. I was GONNA say block plane but I'm not because Bob Van Dyke, and this really beautiful little veneer box. He was making while I was teaching at the school square little box sawn in half, and he's hinging it with these cool little square box hinges in the boxers no lip where the lid meets the body's just flat. So there's no means of alignment. So meaning that the hinges have to be installed really really accurately for the top to line up with the bottom and that can be super tough. So his technique was really smart. He figured out where hinges he wanted them to be. He mortis them into the base of the box and screw them in place in the lid was still free not Morris yet. So he closed the hinges. And then he applied five minute poxy. On. Top of the hinge leaves that were closed up. And, he positioned the top of the box perfectly aligned with the base of the box. And allowed the poxy to dry and basically he glued the hinge leaves to the surface of the underside of the lead. So, now that's perfectly aligned. Other than the fact that he's still needs to mortis that. So but then he's able to in essence open up the box, and while those hinges are glued in place, he could scribe around those hinges with a knife to Morris those guys in, and also this is super smart while that was in place he went ahead in drilled for this crew holes into those hinges because you know how when you crews. That pulls things out of whack but while I was, it was the hinges reclaim place you went ahead and pre drilled a screw holes for the hinges and then he popped off. The glue from the hinges morstead but them back on the Morris's or exactly location and the in screw holes in Zach location and it is like a perfect. That's that's next level. That's something that like somebody who's never would work to a do. Accidentally. So you're saying he basically glued the inches in place marked drilled pop them off. More just. Put it back on. Yeah. So The pile halls it showing. Yeah that's pretty rough. He's he's pretty clever. Yeah, he is. I don't think he would say he learned that from someone else, but it doesn't matter because he remembered it. Was Smart enough to use it so. Super Cool how? Yeah. All right. Let's take a break because we're speechless. Regardless of your skill level in woodworking or repair you WanNa, glue that you can trust because glued doesn't work can ruin any project in a hurry. Fortunately, Taipan has the glue you need to get the job done with confidence. From Interior glues with strong initial tack and Short Clamp Times to exterior, gloss with exceptional strength and water resistance. Look to type on the right glue for your next project for more information visit tight bon dot com. T. I. T. E. B. O. N. D. DOT COM. Shop Talk Live listeners have you checked out the Veritas layout blocks their little pocket sized blocks l-shaped, and each side is cleverly laid out so that you can have a physical measurement of one eighth of an inch quarter of an inch half inch or three quarters of an inch, and then the whole thing is one inch long absolutely awesome fits in your pocket there under ten bucks a piece or you can order a pack of three for under twenty dollars and there's a whole on him. So you can leave him hanging on a piece of string or a hook all around your shop also now for our more. Refined listeners, they have metric layout blocks measurements two millimeters, four meters eight millimeter sixteen millimetres, an overall measurement of thirty two meters. I'm my self with join. So head on over to leave Allie DOT COM check out the layout blocks. If you're into imperial or if you lean metric, they got you covered. Finally Working magazine has a long history of bringing inspiring content to our readers. You can subscribe going to find what working dot com slash sub. Question Number Three is from William. The age. Old Chestnut. I want to build a chessboard with a frame and panel design for the Board itself. I JUST WANNA make out of three quarter in strips though it'd be glued ingrained and and grain in order to create the alternating pattern of dark and light. I have done a mockup of further that seem strong enough. And I've seen of end grain to end Green Glue Bonds that perform well enough. However, I'm worried about the long term strength aim I being paranoid do any of you have long term successful end grain to end grain joints No No. The closest I've come to anything that is a poll. That had. Berle. Is kind of can't really Berle's like. All right. into the end grain of Swiss pair but we're talking about a tiny piece that's under no stress whatsoever. And tell up. Great. But. Is he putting down a substrate? Framing. Panel. Yeah but. He could still good that to a substrate is that our SC thinking like just three quarter inch solid stone. Veneer checkerboard veneer. One option. would be to mill up long pieces of your light and dark stock, and with the you know in a square profile, the size of each square that you want. Clue those up into one long piece like you're making a bread board cross cut those and then flip the stock up vertically just like you do a ingrained right board and all the ingrain is facing up now. So all the joints are all laundering joints that would solve. The checkerboard I like the idea of making checkerboards I think that's super cool. I thought about this. A what. What if? Each piece. Had A rabbit. So you so you almost did a ship lap. Of checkerboards. So, there was a rabbit on each side. Okay and then you'd have some long green and this. So you'd get the longer strength. Yeah Kind of figure out that geometry. You could I mean it sounds like an absolute pain in the butt but Okay. Let's let's. Let's go there where Ariffin. So we have like. I don't know. Let's say were you making Walnut and Maple squares? So cut full length strips of Walnut, which are the width of the squares you want. And then this is a taking up your point Ben. Then on that long continuous drip, you just like cut shallow data's or notches the exact size you want your maple pieces. And then glue in those little maple squares. And then just offset the strips and it looks like grain to ingrains while he's the boss. That's that's basically what you're saying because you're right once you rabbit wants you expose. You have a horizontal surface of long rain too long rain. That's the key. Yeah that'd work. You're making checkerboard. What are you doing? Nearing our. That's what I'm thinking nearing it but even I wonder if you could put. Why? Why? Not Have? Make it thinner and. Put It on a substrate. Why not is there? I feel like 'cause I've I've had this question a couple times people wanting to do the checkerboard. And they just don't want. It's like they haven't hit that point yet where veneers. Okay. It's it's still fine woodworking you know. They're just refused to accept fear in their hearts. Like we have. It does raise a little different. Considerations. For -neering tends to be a little scary for me I get that. I. Love It. I. I. Slept Near and everything now. Free. I still think I'm only at. Like solution three out of seventeen for actually. Troubleshooting a really efficient way to make a checkerboard like I don't think I'm quite there yet. But I want to keep thinking about it. Mike's next book is going to be twenty seven ways to make checkerboard out of solid stock. Yes I figured them all. When he's twenty six ways not to. Read all twenty six before until it makes. question number four is from Dave. and I replied to Dave a long time ago when he sent this one but it's worth a discussion. I'm a clinician who took an assignment to be a part of the covert response here in the US as a result, I've been living out of a hotel room since April ninth and I will probably continue to do so for a long time. What kind of crafts do you think I could make work in my situation I'm going a little nuts. I love the work, but I'm starved for play in my downtime factors I'm considering are. I can have family go to my place in ship a few tools, but I'm also willing to use this as an excuse after listening to my packaged to buy a few new tools. I'll have some room in my checked luggage but not a lot. It's all healthcare workers in the so tau, we all have different shifts so I don't want to be too loud and disturb their sleep. I'm working nights seven day. A week indefinitely. So even if I could access shop space I, don't know when I would because of the because I've become a creature of the night. What comes to mind is lettering chip carving. Something I've never done before I. figure a lot of. figure. A lot may not be worth keeping. So I can give them to folks out here and not worry about having to get work pieces back home. Other ideas. I like the chip carving idea I'll bought because he could just order in some boards that are milled and. Just, go to town on different patterns and the tooling is so minimal. That's a great idea. Carving of any kind would be great dove-tailing, tiny little boxes. Discussing, sketching more sketching. Learning sketch. Up. There are tons of things he could do better. Quiet -flective like learning sketch up in a period like that. Yeah. Yeah. Great chip carving is co Co would be fine. That's a pretty small setup in terms of tools. In just yeah that would be neat. basket. Weaving would be super cool. Netting. Olbia someone. Woodwork on instagram does baskets as well. I don't know if it's I. Don't think as Peter Phones being doesn't mean and Brandon Gafni does basket. So that wasn't being facetious. Here that I didn't think you were first and then I you were and now I'm sure you're not. I think mark tree. Yeah Fred saw and some veneer stock. Some pieces of after glue stuff onto and and. You're my worry about like letter carving would be banging. Chip carving is GonNa be quiet yeah spoons. Go outside into your hatch at work. That's a good idea to market. I liked that because you could do like the square individuals square panels. Then by the time you're done you can incorporate those into this cool frame and panel design or something like a like A. Quilt like Mark. Learned. My covid experience yeah. The Taller case peace with adore a pair of doors that are divided out. So you have these cool square market three panels. Like that Did you see the that piece that Miguel. New One no it's an older one. It's the alphabet. Yeah. Case on stand with the illustrated. Each square. I think that's all market tree, right? Yeah. That's a cool idea to. I can't think of anything else. Chip carving. Probably. Or can we go? I've noticed a lot of these questions. They already have the answer. Lots of questions. They have the answer already and we ended up just agreeing with them. Yeah. But we can't just say that's a good idea. Yeah that's true. Yeah. Be longer than that. I. Don't know I. Think a lot of people desire confirmation from other people and they don't necessarily have. woodworkers that they talked to every lunch period to say, yeah, that's a good idea. We don't anymore either. Yeah. Up Today. So any. So what would you do? So you're sort of traveling in a hotel room for say six months by yourself. All these ideas they I liked the chip carving idea. Spoons good idea. The market trees a good idea. The basket weaving or like. Even. If he could even learn some more upholstery type stuff to if you had a frame that he could use his practice frame, he could do Danish cord or rush or caning or anything like that too. I would I would dig learning all that stuff. Having time to do it. Through the chip carving in the Christina Madsen style where you're chip carving painting Jus-. Oh. Carbon through panels. Yeah. Yeah. What would you do? You do that to pair I think it's something. Where you would want convenience starting stop points so that you can jump in and work on it and then you stop working on it, but then come back. But then I also think there needs to be continuity connecting everything together. So it feels like. It's part of a longer project in order to keep you interested in doing it so that by the time you're done I wouldn't want a series of small. unrelated. Little projects. I would want one long thing that consists of a lot of things. So basically, the the multiple panels get incorporated into a bigger piece would be good. I. Mean I would imagine basket weaving is something that. Takes a long time. I don't know. I wouldn't you know. I mean but. Like. Isn't coming out of with not necessarily the project. I don't think he's worried about the project I think he's trying to kill time. So learning technique is the the project for for many. Well I think your take on like carving Spoon Day. I. Failed at. I love food. So So maybe it is a mindless thing. I need to come in. Sit Down decompressed by focusing on this one thing for an hour. Yeah. So maybe that is something. You know like a spooner chip carving you can come in and just do one thing. So don't call it good. You know and there are also so many. Books Right, now like even to go back and just start reading some of the older woodworking books and. With lost press putting out. So many really cool books now to and. There are just more things to read about woodworking and from really cool woodworkers now than there ever used to be hot and and yearbook and CRANACH's books. Get. On their woodworking. Book. Tour. I gotta say I'm going to add a wildcard. Mak- UKULELE. Because I'm thinking about it, there's nothing loud there. And you know a a month of nights you could wind up with a pretty fun. Project at the end of it. The STUPAK Ukulele Eighty Bucks and Pretty much everything's there. You don't need machines. So yeah. Let it. Get stuff. Cool. Hard, let's see. We have a couple of listener comments on about the scrap wood discussion on episode two twenty. This one is from Richard a couple of years ago I started a facebook group called scrap exchange that sort of like a helpline. It is the opposite of health line. I went on. To check it. Out. Don't. See. Opposite of helpline. Indulging the problem is it just sources so scraps of people want to get rid of. Yeah, it's like. It's If there are more people saying I need this kind of would Can Anybody Send me this? Then there are people saying, Hey, take this. But but also as I'm looking at that Oh look at that curly walnut that's going on. A game box full of curly walnut because I don't have enough would all over the place in my House It's bad. Okay. So if you have any. Problem to not going to this. I. Think is ideas that the people with would hoarding problems should offload to other people. Yeah and this might be a venue for that. Yeah. For other would horrors to pick up there would perpetuate their would hoarding problem. All right Nisha. Scrap, adoption. Service. To match the. Yet, overly scrapped with the underlying scrap somehow always winds up there's that one house with too many scraps. Yeah. Sure. A niece's house. Sorry I will post a link for those of you. Who needs to scare off? Are, and then we have one from Berry and we'll we'll post a picture the Berry son, and not are very annoyed. How dare you call me on your podcast? Not Me personally but those like me who heard every menial scrap thinking I can use it somewhere else. anyways. You forced me to do a clean out and he sent a picture. That is a solid pickup truck load. Of, scrapped while. I mean Berry. Berry was strong in this one. recommendations I have recommendation by more flashlights go just by next time you. Buy More. Flashlights by some buckets to flush the toilet with. Where else? All right I'm going to go full circle here I'm going to recommend that you go and check out this facebook page. There's a definite really cool community feel to it and everybody's really trying to like. you know get some out to people who need it and people are doing their call out for what they need, and there are some really cool things on there. I didn't mean to be super like skeptical about it. I was mostly kidding around. But I it was kind of a cool thing to in there I don't do facebook released but there seemed like there are a lot of people involved in it and you have to sign in. To tell where you're from. So definitely worth checking out. We're you just describing facebook to the audience or vote I don't know I don't really do facebook. FACEBOOK page is at face shore. Wait ever. I shouldn't be talking about facebook it all by. Recommendation I I gave it already rewatch the Brady Bunch. Offer. Oh. Yeah I've been watching the brady bunch episodes and the wonder years with my kids. And they both hold up and I would highly recommend revisiting them. And he's A. Also. If, you don't do this already tracked down a local farmer's market in your area. and. Actually go there. Every week like I love farmers markets, and the only time we would ever go is like when we were on vacation somewhere and it was stupid because I would get these ingredients with no means to actually cook them. So we finally started going to the one in the town in Ben's town like every Thursday afternoon and it's like, okay, there's my bread. There's my whatever micro sprouts there's my greens. Pie Little Pie you get the low rhubarb pies. Good. At its it's cool. It's really increased the quality of my life. I, think that's a good one. All right. Well, that's all for this episode. Of Shop. Talk, live if you have questions, you'd like to answer on the show, send them into shop talk at Tom Dot Com if you're watching on Youtube please click that thumbs up button we'll be back in two weeks with another Thanks for listening. Finally working is bringing our best instructors right to your home with our shop class webinars. With these virtual workshops, you can watch, listen ask questions and enjoy the chats and connections with other woodworkers experts to find out more go to find woodworking dot com slash shop class. SEGMENT POTPOURRI
An avalanche of big studios weigh in on Georgia abortion bill
"I'm Kim masters. And this is the Hollywood breakdown. Joining me as Matt Bellamy of the Hollywood reporter, and Matt, the Georgia abortion law. We are seeing now an avalanche from the major studios in the in the initial days after the passage of this law, which many people see, as you know, as what it is. I think an an attempt to overturn Roe v. Wade or provoked the supreme court to act. That is not something that goes down. Well in Hollywood Hollywood is a progressive community. A lot of people believe in a woman's right to choose. So at first, a few people David Simon Nina Jacobson of color force, which is the studio that brought you the hunger games and crazy. Rich Asians and many other movies, Mark do. Plus, they said they are not shooting in Georgia then net flicks said we would have to consider shooting in Georgia and today there's an avalanche now. I'll just, you know, to explain why this is such a big thing, Georgia gives very generous tax breaks to Hollywood. That's means a lot of money. And therefore many Georgia has basically become Hollywood on the east coast. There is a ton of filming in that state. Yes. Especially with the Walt Disney company, they shoot most of the marvel movies. They're in near Atlanta and they have a bunch of production facilities there. And essentially, what's, what is happening is these statements are towing align. All of these companies are saying if this law is eventually enacted we are going to have to reconsider our investment in this state, and that's not exactly saying we're out that saying that if this is upheld because there are appeals that are expected. And if this becomes the law of the state, eventually, then they're going to act, and some say that it's kind of a wishy-washy thing to say because most legal analysts expect this law to not survive appellate review and just this past week, the supreme court indicated it's not exactly eager to Wade. Into the abortion debate especially leading up to the election next year. So I think that this is allowing these studios to kind of have their cake and eat it, too. They are positioning themselves on, on an issue in a way that the creative community supports while not actually going far enough that they're gonna have to eventually do anything. Yeah. I mean, I don't think they will be able to go into Georgia if this continues. But, you know, there have been people in the state of Georgia in the entertainment industry. Even there's been a debate a robust debate saying, you're going to punish people in Georgia working people. If you boycott and some people have come down on the side of saying, you know, this is just the way it has to be. We don't want people in Georgia to suffer that we have to speak out against legislation like this, and then there are people who are saying, you know, this law is just, you know, this is kabuki in a way, as you say, they are not going to this law will not stand. It will probably be stayed, you know instantly. And again, the court Ken. Stay out of it, and we'll probably want to given that despite the fact that they're supposed to be a political. There is a conservative majority and at least two of those conservatives are appointed by the current occupant of the White House. So it has been a away for the studios to kind of say, we'll tread water and make a signal that we are not gonna stick around, if but, you know, I now that these studios are in the governor of Georgia had said, you know, in the early going, this is like see list talent. I think we're well beyond seedless talent. I mean, now it's Disney, which is obviously, huge Warner media NBC universal all piling in, in the last twenty four or forty eight hours. And keep in mind that this is a tricky topic for these companies because opinion on abortion is split in this country. And while the creative community may be very much in favor of a woman's right to choose a lot of the consumers of Disney, content and products may disagree with that position. So they really. They don't necessarily want to come out as forcefully as they might on some of the other social issues that these companies have been vocal about. Yeah. Although I do think that if you look at the numbers they the great majority do support right to choose. And there's a very, very vocal and dedicated opposition. Thank you. Thank you. That's Matt Bellamy editorial director of the Hollywood reporter he joins me this Monday at one thirty on the business. I'm Kim masters. And this is the Hollywood breakdown.
Coronavirus and Hollywood: TV production shut down, some movies shift to streaming
"I'm Kim Masters and this is the Hollywood breakdown. Joining me is Matt Bellamy of the Hollywood reporter. I should say joining me from home. Our respective homes. We are not the same home I want to say first of all that our hearts go out to everyone in the entertainment industry is getting so badly hurt in everyone generally but you know this is the business and the Hollywood breakdown in Hollywood has been dramatically impacted by the ongoing crisis. But we are going to also talk about The state of this business because For everyone who is now at risk and not working. The future of the business is of course of huge importance We have seen as you know Matt. Many many cancellations were talking Cannes Film Festival has finally succumbed that to the reality that they cannot hold the event. This year A lot of people are wondering what is going to become of the TV production season which is now on hold as a shutdown. I mean people can still meet and right. Virtually but production is a huge challenge. And then another question that will address as quickly as how why you aren't going to see big movies available for you on demand but I met one you One eight you sort of fill us in on the state of play with the TV business. Well it's interesting because the production of television is all shutdown so you're going to start to see delays in shows that were either not finished or were not even shot yet for instance. Fargo the new season Fargo was supposed to Premiere April. That has been moved to Some time indefinite down the line because they just didn't finish your two episodes left. There are sixty broadcast pilots that are were in various stages of production early stages of production. Mostly those of all been put on hold and the thinking is if this delay lasts until may maybe early June some of the broadcast pilots would be able to shoot and be green lit for series and get on in the fall but if we go any further than that thinking is that the fall season with all the sudden become the January season and there will be tons of repercussions for the television advertising industry from that Beyond that you know the one thing that is continuing as you mentioned is writing and a lot of these shows that had been green lit and have been given the go ahead for. Writers rooms are now meeting via zoom or other ways of getting together. So you're going to see a lot of scripts being stockpile just because people can write them but they just can't shoot them. Meanwhile from the consumer point of view you know the the networks are trying to make some adjustments to make things available that you know that any kind of create events so that people are watching something at the same time and have a sense of community. Hallmark is having a Christmas marathon That you know there are. Disney dropped frozen to more than a month earlier than planned on Disney. Plus as you know. Matt it is not so easy to a lot of people say why won't studios released new movies on and some of them are Sony and is doing it with bloodshot than the Vin Diesel. Movie which had a very abbreviated theatrical run and an universalist doing it with several movies including Emma and The invisible man and the hunt and most notably trolls but this is barely van dated it. It is not a solution that is a thing really for the movie business. As you know Matt Yeah I mean. This is a cost benefit analysis that each studio is doing now because the primary distribution method for these films movie theaters are now closed. So what do you do when the movie theaters are closed? We either find another solution to get it distributed right now or you wait and what we're seeing happening is that there is a class of film. Mid Budget lower budget that the studios are deciding to or some studios are deciding to put online make available for pay per view and digital download now and then there is a threshold over which the movies are simply being moved. And you're seeing this mostly with bigger budget movies like fast and furious nine and the minion sequel which was pushed from July into an indeterminate. Date so I think what we're GONNA see. More DELAYS AS THIS CRISIS GROWS. And then you're going to see lower budget films make it onto digital platforms and just to be clear. It's not at all certain that studios can recoup even their costs when they do this. This is a as one analyst. Put IT IT'S A. It's a sort of a policy of despair strategy of despair and and Desperation rather than a real strategy going forward however could reshape. How people consume entertainment when Finally subsides thank you Matt. Thank you. That's Matt Bellamy editorial director of the Hollywood reporter. He joins me this Monday at one. Thirty on the business. I'm Kim Masters and this is the Hollywood breakdown.
Working: How Editor Tracy Sherrod is Amplifying Black Authors
"This episode is sponsored by Zen Desk. Things are a little weird right now. Business isn't business as usual. A lot of companies are struggling to keep up with what matters most their customers. Send us is here to help you. They put together six months complimentary remote support bundle. It comes with the basic tools. Team needs to stay agile and connected with customers whether it's by email phone chat, community, forum, help center or social media. And with Zen desk, it takes hours not weeks to get up and running. Their support sales and customer engagement software is easy to use and quickly scales to meet changing needs. Go to send US dot. com slash working to get started. In the early days there are all kinds of things that would be sad. One being When President Obama's book came in. We don't really publish people with the nontraditional names. The sad part about all of that in these years in publishing are the books that never got through. We don't even know what would missing it. Welcome back to working I'm your host, Isaac Butler and your other host, Vermont Lawn Remond, we are going to be talking about your incredible interview with Tracy Chirad, the editorial director of honest press, and we also have a fascinating ethical quandary from one of our listeners who wrote him with the question about the writing process, but before we get to any of that. You're in the home stretch of the book pre publication process that moment when you're bringing the horse to market, I know a lot of artists. Probably me included, we could get a bit shocked by and conflicted about marketing our work of getting it out there about. People to buy it about essentially saying I believe in this I want you to give me some money. Because I believe you'll like it, too. This is your third time around with that What's it been like for you this time? I mean I. Think the funny thing. Is that when you talk to when I talked to you? Anyway, artists, I really admire. They all acknowledged that that hustle that you're talking about is really an important part of the thing you know. There's no point in doing something. If no one's GonNa see it, there's no point in making something if no one can sort of engaged with a new kind of have to just learn. To do that? Tap Dance, you know and really. I can't complain I mean it's a great gift to be a writer who's paid to write books and then asked to talk about them in order to sell them, and there's plenty of anxiety, and there's plenty of fear mixed in with all of that gratitude enjoy, but I have to pace myself because I still have a couple of months until October when this thing arrives in the stores, right? Yes, of course, it's a marathon, not a sprint exact location process. and. You know speaking of the business publication. You know we have a guest this week Tracy Sharon. Who is deeply involved in the business of publishing as the editorial director of? Press what can you tell us about Tracy and why? You wanted to speak with her? You know I lurk on book and Publishing A. Twitter so I've been watching a lot of the bigger conversations about race in this country playout as discussions of race inside the Book Business in my conversation with Tracy I refer to article by Lauren Michelle. Jackson, that was published vulture about the purpose of the anti-racist reading list, those curated syllabi of books to read whenever there's a big galvanizing cultural moment that is about. And then there was a trending topic on twitter. That really caught my attention. Under the Hashtag publishing me, in which a host of writers disclosed how much they had made for their books, it was just a way of kind of freeing up some data and showing that maybe one of the businesses systemic problems is economics that maybe white writers are making more money than black writers and we did see. Some white writers talking about pretty big advances and sort of well known black writers, talking about comparatively smaller Vince advances. It's very confusing business and it's hard to extrapolate a lot from this information, but I do think that that trending topic. And the conversation around it showed that people are really interested right now in looking at systemic. Racism! And I thought it would be very useful in illuminating to talk to one of the handful of black gatekeepers in the publishing business, and that's why I went to Tracy Chirad. In your conversation, the name sister souljah comes up. You know I think it's been a while probably for some of our listeners, since they remember the sister Souljah moment and Bill Clinton's brief use of her as kind of a political prop, so could you? rewind the clock to the early ninety s and tell us a bit about who sister soldier was in our culture. In that moment it's a very specific blast from the past and just as a refresher, she is a writer activist. And during the run-up to the presidential election, she said something about violence in the aftermath of the Rodney. King verdict and the riots that ensued in Los Angeles. Bill Clinton was campaigning for the presidency denounced this, and that act of denunciation has become known as a sister souljah moment maybe unfairly, so, but it's that particular inflection point where a political movement has to disavow something as too extreme, and we saw this when candidate, Obama broke ties for publicly with the Reverend Jeremiah Wright's. So, it's a funny thing to hear her name in the context of her as a human being as a writer and an artist, and to hear a little bit about this unlikely pivotal role that sister souljah plead in the career. That Tracy Sean has made for herself. What remond I can't wait to hear about that and all sorts of other things in your interview with Tracy. Shod, so let's take a listen. Episode is brought to you by issue. You have content to push out and a story to share remove the complexity with issue. Issue is the all in one platform create and distribute beautiful digital publications from brochures to magazines to sales collateral more. It's perfect for creators, marketers, designers, educators, publishers, sales, people anyone who wants to make eye catching content. An issue makes it easy. Upload Your PDF's and files issued transforms them using your vision and customizable. To create the content you want. With issue, you create once and distributed everywhere. Everything is optimized to post on your website and social platforms like instagram and facebook. An issue is used by millions of people to discover new content. So, you'll reach even more readers once you publish with issue. Best of all, it's free to get started with issue. Go to issue dot INFO. Slash working to sign up for your free account. That's I s U. U Dot Info Slash working to sign up and let them know you heard about it from our show. Remember! That's DOT INFO NOT DOT com. Code issue dot info slash working to set up your free account today. Okay I'm someone who publishes books for a living, so I feel like I have a little bit of insight into what an editor does, but I think TV and movies give us this idea that the editorial director would be sitting at a really fancy office lined with books, and they'd have a pencil in their hand, and be working quietly and maybe having a scotch at the end of the day. Is that what you're days? Actually look like now. That's the fantasy. So, the bulk of your hours are spent. Doing meetings. And preparing paperwork to make offer. Chasing Books How did you begin your career? You. Know I'll tell you this, so it was time to graduate from college, and you know so into into books and just reading and all that stuff. So it came time to graduate from college and. By college roommate, who is a judge now? She said. What are you GonNa? Do you know what kind of job are you going to have? What are you GonNa? Do with your life and I said you know I hadn't even thought about that yet. And, so she said well, you're really late. So why don't you call those people and ask them for job and I'm like what people's because you always have a book in your hand like now. Just call them up and ask for a job and I did. And it was the feminist press and they said yes. And so I moved from Michigan to New York. And when I was on the phone with the feminist press, you know I didn't want to ask how much would be paid. I didn't want to ask. All of these questions at one should ask because. You Know I. wanted to make sure I have the job, but when I got there, I found out that it was a fifty dollar week internship. But I would not be deterred and so I got a job at Doubleday Bookstore at night and worked at the feminist press during the day. After six weeks. I was hired permanent. full-time. So which was really wonderful and then Marie, Brown was on the board there. And she helped me to get a job in more mainstream publishing. I I ended up. At, Henry Holt and company wonderful experience. But I laughed. Henry Holtz. When. I went to my publisher. And I asked her to read. sister soldiers the coldest winter ever. which was on submission? and. She told me no. She wouldn't read it. Because someone in the house, it said that sister soldier was racist. And, so I told her I said you know. In the past ten years. The only people that have been called racist. Are People of Color. And I'm really concerned about that. And I'm going to resign today. And so I did. Emily blessed ler at Simon and Schuster had also been talking to me. And so I called her up after my discussion with my publisher to see if the job was still available, and she said yes, and so I went over to Simon and Shuster. Worked for four years. About three months after I arrived, Charles Harris reached out to me and asked me to come over to be the editorial director. Working for Hamas dotted always been a dream of mine, but I didn't feel like I could. I could just quit after being somewhere for three months. So I feel very grateful and thankful to people like Jonathan Burnham. Who hired me at honest is. To be the editorial director. It's a dream of mine. it had been a dream of mine, and it's materialized, and I love it beyond belief before I even started working there years and years before. I envisioned kind of books that I would publish. Because we were interested in a variety of things. and. It's not just about race that we want to talk about, and that's not all. That's going on in our lives, although unfortunately. You know definitely nags at us. All Day long keeps chasing US and run US down. I'm really play a couple of things that you've just said one. Is that Charles Harris? The founder of honest odd had actually thought of you for this job years before you ended up taking it. So what year did Jonathan Burnham hire us? Takeover almost. April Twenty, eight, two, thousand, thirteen. Okay, so you can forget. It's been about seven years. That's incredible. And the other thing that is so striking to me. Is this conflicts? You described with your former publisher when you were an editor at Holt? Declining to read a submission that an editor had brought in. That's seems to me and I think maybe people who are listening to this conversation I don't know about. That seems to me. Extraordinary out of the ordinary for publisher to decline to even look at work because. That just doesn't seem to me like it's the way that this business runs and. The fact that you. Can. We talk about micro aggression a lot when you talk about race inside of the workplace, but that does seems like a regular aggression to me and and. Early days there were all kinds of things that would be sad. You know the early days the the eighties and nineties one being. When President Obama's book came and. We. Don't really you know. Publish people with nontraditional names. I mean you're talking about dreams from my father. He wrote when he was a senator. Yes, came in before he was well known the first time it was published yeah right. The sad part about all of that in these years in publishing. Are the books that never got through. We don't even know what missing. I know a few very important books that were missing. That would contribute to the dialogue. But those are books said no one wanted to buy at the time. And that's the real loss. To publishing. On the Stud. Begin life as a anthology of black writing. It was founded by an editor named Charles Harris. It had sort of many different iterations eventually spun off into an independent imprint. Publishing works by black writers. In one thousand nine hundred nine Harpercollins, which is one of the big mega corporations in that control publishing in this country acquired that imprint in its whole list, and I'm going to name some writers on that list Walter Dean Myers. Jacqueline Woodson Zora Neale Hurston Gwendolyn, Brooks Edward, p Jones and Jessica Shangai these the literary names, but the point of view is black. It's a press for black writing. I wonder if you think that's fair to say, that's a fair statement. And then if you can talk about what that endeavor means inside of big corporation Harpercollins. Yes we published for. The black audience specifically. But mostly what we're offering is a chance for writers. Of. Color and black widers in particular. A platform in which to publish their work. we don't try to make them say one thing or another We believe that these books live. One hundred percent in their truth. In so yes, in Charles started the press a long time ago in one, thousand, nine, hundred, eighty six. And he worked for Doubleday. As an editor. And before he left. And he left to start. Ons Dot, go to Howard and to begin. Building, ONSTAD DOT press, and and some of the books that he left were actually edited by Toni, Morrison including the greatest by Muhammed Ali so Charles was an extraordinary man and a visionary when he started this press, and so we did begin with some anthologies, collecting important black writers in their thoughts from John Oliver killings to Tony Morrison. A whole whole bunch of people where there wasn't exactly a platform for that back then and the nineteen eighties seems so recent. To a Lotta people, but you know black publishing is still very very new, and and the market I believe. We're only tapping like maybe point one percent. There's more stories to be told. There's a large audience for them and publishing as an industry needs to recognize that. They're seeing a little bit now. When the bestseller lists like paperback nonfiction. This week all of the books are about race or racism, and the majority of them are written by. African American authors. And, they're seeing you know the purchasing power. Also believing that there's there's a large white audience at coming to the books of this at this moment which I do believe that is the case, but I also think that all of us are coming to these flows. So the culture right now as you intimated, and as the the seller list reflects, is having this sort of big conversation about race, and it didn't begin in this moment you know and I think a black grandparent for example would laugh at us if they heard anyone suggest that this just started, but I do think and I think a lot of people feel this way that the unjust of George. Floyd feels like specific moment like a specific galvanizing moment, people are looking for some kind of insights to answer. What do you feel that this moment offers for almost odd as a publisher, and do you feel a particular responsibility to rise to that moment? Well. We've been doing the work you know for many years. And I believe. In the next year actually in twenty twenty one. People will be able to see the results of that work. We have a lot of important riders on the list. Important people we need to hear from such as Marcus Hunter on reparations, because there are many ways to provide reparations. In addition to money, and yes, we want to keep the money on the list. But there are other. There are other means you know. There's Julianne Malveaux. Who's doing a huge discussion on? The power of black money, and how we use it to advance ourselves instead of a and ourselves and so there's lots of important work that's going to feed into this discussion. You're speaking specifically about forthcoming books on the list that are political in nature but it. Also publishes memoir. It also publishes. Commercial, fiction, do you think that those endeavors are also political by virtue of being almost daughter by virtue of being black voices in a marketplace that's largely controlled by white forces. Well, yes, I believe first of all. They're in place. A house. An imprint of freedom. And of freedom fighters. And so. We've done a lot of literary fiction and some commercial fiction, and all the messages in those books are about liberation in one form or another. There is a writer name, Lauren Michelle Jackson and she recently wrote a really a piece that I found really interesting for vulture where she was looking at less of black tax that pop up whenever there's a whenever there's a galvanizing. Violence a lot of the magazines and websites will publish a list of like. Here's what to read. Think about race, and this is what Jackson wrote. Quote aside from the Contemporary Teaching Tax Genera. Indiscriminately essays slide against memoir and folklore poetry squeezed on either side by Sociological Tomes. This may be ironically, but maybe not reinforces already pernicious literary divide. That books written by or about minorities are for educational purposes, racism, and Homophobia and stuff holy segregated from matters of form and grammar, lyric and seen. I'd really like to hear your perspective on this. Because as you just said you publish books about race, but you publish books, but everything. Do you think readers should be looking at books as curative or as medicine for toxicity and racism in this culture? Well in in the nineteen seventies. The first period which You know black books and black authors were really making entryways into the business. And this is because they realized that the board of Education that you now all of these books with all this American history in it is not right. What should we do about it well? They didn't want to correct it. That would have been a big job so what they decided to do was have. Supplemental materials about African American history about. Indian history etcetera etcetera. And that's actually how Tony Morrison got into the business. Working on those kind of text, and then so initially. People of Color Literature was was for the purpose of educating others. And and ourselves to about about history the. So I think that has continued, but no I. Definitely the purpose of all books should be to educate someone about something. But, no I think we'll should be for escape, but still learning. Book should be for for pleasure because you know. Think about what you're saying, All block books were about racism. Where would we be able to escape it? And get away from it and I think we need those kind of books as well. So. I A beautiful world would be where everybody read everything as I do believe that black people do it everything, but yes, so it should be definitely educational, but that is not where it should stop. And that is not all it should be. Do. You think there's a generational change here because also if you are. Seventeen year old reader if you're a twenty two year old reader. You may never have heard of the salt eaters you may never have. You may never have heard of jasmine ward if you're a young person like a book that is only six years old. Came that would have come out when you were a teenager, and it might suddenly seem new and relevant to you. Do you think that younger readers are an under looked resource for commercial publishing today? Actually, no I think I'm paying very close attention to young people, and in what their interests are, and and their reading habits. And I would say that this generation of Of young people, the ones who are just entering the workforce the ones that are in colleges right now. And even younger, they're reading. Much more diverse literature. And I. believe that their buying habits will reflect this as they get older and so i. think that's also going to be a contributor to. Enlarge meaning. The black book buying audience. And there are huge sets of contemporary readers, young and old who don't. Look at the New York Times who don't look at the lists in buzzfeed. They look at instagram. They read the comments and they get excited and they say oh. I've never heard of this book I'm excited about it, but I wanna read. Yeah I know exactly what you mean. because in my younger early days in publishing. one of my books was on the cover of the new. York Times book review in in everybody was super, super excited. and. I was like Oh. No. Means, it's never gonNA reach my audience. You know because at the time you know. Black people just were not invested in the Times any anyway, and I believe that's changed significantly especially with people like Nicole Hannah so marketing is really key. and. We have to let the word out more about books. We'll be back with more of Remond. Alarms Conversation with editor Tracy Chirad in a moment. This podcast is supported by the Financial Times, which has been exploring the changing relationship between business and society over the past year. It is called. It's thinking the new agenda. The theme which has become even more significant in light of the coronavirus pandemic, the economic emergency and global black lives matter protests. It's attention has now turned the impact that crises have in defining the reputation of individuals and organizations. As businesses and societies around the world begin to recover. Many commentators are demanding that we rebuild in a fairer more inclusive way. The Financial Times poses a pertinent question. If leaders do not step up now. Will they ever? You can read more at F. T. dot com slash the new agenda. One of the things we love to do with this show is help solve your creative problems whether it's a specific challenge about your work or big question about inspiration discipline. You can send them to us at working at slate dot com. If and when we can will even put those questions to our esteemed gusts. Welcome back to working I'm Isaac Butler. We now return to romance conversation with Tracy Sherard. What percentage of your work is managerial is wrestling with. You know you're publishing people wrestling for like the bigger budgets marketing power whatever, and then what percentage of your work is creative and sitting down with an author making a phone call to an author and saying look think about doing this thing doing that like I want you to push this book in this direction or that direction. Like what is that split look like to you? I've been fighting for a Lotta that time during quarantine, and so I have been doing nat with my authors. And particularly a great conversation with Ursula Burns who was the CEO of Xerox. And her forthcoming book which I am. Enjoying? But I would say that every day from nine to five is managerial administrative. And then maybe. Two Hours Beyond the nine to five on a given day. Still doing administrative things and and administrative is you know? At the moment like writing jacket copy getting blurbs. Trafficking books through production covering permissions. You know getting the photos getting. You know all those types of things, and then you know. Then maybe one hour a night. Monday through Friday of say. You know reading submissions and citing. What I will pursuing or not. And, then Saturday and Sunday full. Blow out. You know six am to nine PM. With breaks for some food or some or Something that's when we're editing and writing our editorial letters, and this is a very very. Time consuming process and we really want to be in it. We really want to be in it because when something goes wrong with your books or something's not quite right in. Your stomach hurts every time that look as mentioned your stomach. So. You don't want that, so we work really really hard. It's why people don't see editors in about much unless it's an author event that they need to go to. I don't think that it's the case for all editors, but it's particularly true for Amazon because we're trying to build on Dodd. and. We're thirty five next year. But it seems and examining its history and going over it really super carefully. The growth will happen. After the results. After results I'm not sure it's GONNA have before the results. You know I don't think anybody's GonNa. Come along and say. Let's give this imprint everything needs. In publishing when they're setting up other imprints. They give them everything they need from the start. Then you prove the results that for black and black people in publishing. It's the reverse. You GotTa do the work. But being notices, not what any of us are in it about. It's all about books as long as we can do the books we will survive. We will. Move Forward. You no matter what. I JUST WANNA. Walk back for a second to clarify what in detail letter is for the list her. You'll spend a Saturday or Sunday going over a book making notes figuring out what you think how the book has put together how it structured how it's written, and the first time I heard the phrase editorial letter I thought like going to be like an email like a nice email from somebody. And that Israel litter is an exhaustive. Very long document in which you know and it's it's a subjective thing. Every editor has their own way of doing it. The royal letters I have received have been I mean exhausting and long and thoughtful, and it's an editor saying on this page used this word, but I don't think that's right, but it's also an editor saying. Please think back structurally to the very foundations of this book and reconsider how x and y work, and all of the this very close analysis of thing still in process. Is that. What kind of editorial letter do you like to write? Yes mine are very detailed, very very detailed. You know last one was like twelve single space. Pages So there are the track changes in the manuscript calling out this map and the other thing content here, move this there. Why is this here? What are the answers to this you know? All of that. Are In the track changes in then I write a corresponding ladder. To put the track changes in context. Then we over each yeah, over each one about why want this done y want that? And everything because once you break it down, explained it that way. The majority of people are like I am so. Ready, you know they're motivated? They see you know clarity, and they see the path which they can take to. Really bring their calm. As a writer speaking of somebody who occupies the other side of that equation when you get those letters, and you open the you see that it's twelve pages like you kind of have like a heart, attack and euphoria at the same time. Because you're like Oh my God. I have so much work to do, but also you're like. Wow! Somebody paid this much attention to me and is trying to save this book like they. It's a leap of faith on the part of the editor that she cares this much about this book and it's going to. Tell me how to fix it, and you shouldn't think same. Issued thinks she's saving. Just because that letter is long and detailed does not mean. There's something really wrong with. It's just how to enhance the book. And so much of an editor spoke I mean that is where the creativity comes in, but also even though you're very visible and presents inside of the office. The editor is kind of an invisible figure like the nature of the job. Is that you you're not there? You're brighter is the person who is doing this work. You're just helping. Get them. They're sort of like. Like a like a personal trainer might try and get you ready for a triathlon. You're the they're the one who is running the triathlon. You're the one who's going back to the office. And it's not about glory or fame. There are very few I mean people inside book-publishing know who editors are, but there are very few people who become famous for being an editor. Do you think is a certain kind of personality that's drawn to that work. The ideal person to be an editor. I think it's still the person who doesn't WanNa be the center of the room. Out The person who wants to be an observer. A strong reader, someone who who can read anything. Does it matter if it's something? They're interested in or not. They can still enjoy and enjoy the content. To make it. You have to be social. Quite social going out being out. communing with with authors and I think people who really enjoy the creative process. Who are willing to have those conversations with? Writers and find them fascinating listening to two things about like how they plan on structuring a book. You know who find that fascinating and who when they're reading a book. Can see the different literary techniques and devices that an author has used and appreciate those so close reader. Someone. Who's who could be interested in almost anything? I think, make good editors. Because they have lots of questions are very curious people. And I think having curiosity, but if you WANNA be famous if you want to be. You know the life of the party. I don't really think. You know editorial is the way to go. Another thing that we saw. On social media in the last couple of months is this Hashtag publishing paid me in which writers inside of the publishing business for speaking very candidly about how much money they had made, and one of the revelations that I must confess that even I found very surprising. was how little really really successful writers? Or Jesmyn Ward had been paid. Had Made I. Think got a thousand dollar advance. After already having won the National Book Award, and there was a lot of surprise I think on twitter about this from people who are not themselves black like I think a lot of my colleagues were like Oh. Yes, that makes that computes to me because you always have to go through that extra hurdle. I was really surprised by that. You know for black authors. Publishing paid me. HASHTAG was very very interesting on a lot of levels. But. It's super competitive. To get a black author. The advances are going. Through the roof. And I can't say. Always that that's a good thing. You know maybe a sure. Some people would like larger money upfront and there are people who have received large advances upfront. And one thing I would have to say this. If I have to give an off an a message to authors. If you're shopping a black book. And at the end of that auction, none of the black people. Have come to that amount of money. For to give to that advance you're you're probably in trouble already. You're going to have some problems. Because! I believe the black publishing. Professionals are the experts. What we should do is we should just back up for a second and explain the economics of book publishing, so a writer comes into an imprint with a book and I have this book. It's here it as it's done here. Here's the proposal for what I WANNA, do and the publishing company comes back and says we will give you this advance, which is an investment in the future of this book, and let's say the advances fifty thousand dollars that will carry you through the process of publishing the book or writing the book. If it's a proposal, and then you'll get a check for twenty five thousand. Thousand Dollars signed a contract or ten thousand dollars. You know it will come to you in a couple of payments, and then the book will go on sale, and it'll start earning money, and once those royalties top fifty thousand dollars. They start going right into your pocket, and that's how you start earning money, so if you get paid million dollars for a book, that book has to sell a lot of copies in order for the royalties to start showing up in order for the publisher. Who took that gamble on you to start making any money on that gamble, and so what you're saying is that. It's more responsible for you to think about the advance and calibrated against what the book is actually going to perform in the market that you understand. When it comes to advances. It's important. To earn out your advanced or come close to it. then. You're perceived as a successful author. And then more money will come. The more opportunities will come. But once you're overpaid for book. I'm not sure where your career is after that 'cause going to be difficult to sell another book. And I. Think it's really important for people to listen when the authors are going around and they're having the meetings really need to listen to what's going on. You know and they need to understand things like you know if you're using a ghost rider. No, you do not have to go with your agent's friend's wife. Do not and things like that and I want. You know authors to know that you're paying your agent. They're not paying you. And, so you need to take an active lead in that relationship. And ask the important questions. Okay if I'm getting this advance. How many copies do I need to earn out to make this work? And who else has? That number of copies. And then they'll know what's realistic or unrealistic in their situation, then they also know what their advances fair or not. At Imus Todd. I try to be. As Responsible as possible. Because I can't overpay for authors. Because that's counted. You know on my imprints peon out! and. And I want to be around tomorrow. And publishing person, not being around mile is not worth it to me. How do you feel like heading into? This is like a big culture moment. Your impetus turning thirty minutes year. How do you feel you feel optimistic? Fill plus in the sixty feel good about the direction of. Honest hard at the literary culture generally. I'm feeling really good. And I feel very confident. That Imus Todd is going to receive the resources that it needs. In order to to be become the premier African, American, publisher we are that in name. Right now. But there are huge things. I wanted to solidify that. So that the next generation is in place to taken over. We have to build a company that lives, and so we need that. When you listen to interviews Veronica Roth or Megan Abbott on this podcast. You ever catch yourself wondering. Why can't I write a novel? Well, now is the time with the help of the sleep podcast how to with Charles Duke. In the latest episode, Charles Gets Advice from the author of the bestselling novel Fleishman is in trouble. The writer Taffy Browser ackner who will also be a guest on working? taffy share some surprising tips about how to come up with that first sentence overcoming writer's block and finding a trusted reader, not a cheerleader for honest feedback. Instead of being intimidated by your favorite writers take their success this motivation and ask why them and not me. Look for the episode how to write a bestseller and subscribe to how to with Charles Duhig. PODCASTS and the show Ad Week honored two thousand nineteen interview podcast of the year. Remind, it is always a breath of fresh air with a major gatekeeper in an industry is actually honest about their work, and it also seems like due to honest odds position as a publisher of black authors for a largely black audience. She gets to also be a real champion. As well I was particularly interested in what she said about the lost great African American books, the ones that were never published or perhaps published. Published but ignored by readers or even their own publishing house, these works that could have gone on great impact today in the theater world, there is a whole Canon of black plays that are widely ignored unless you're taking an undergraduate class in African American theater, but I think at least in theater. That's just beginning to change with some of the season announcements for next season, although we obviously have a long way to go. I too thought that that was an extraordinary point. You Know Tracy is an optimist about the future, but she's candid about the past about those missed opportunities you know are black citizens have suffered absolutely, but you know there's another way of looking at it, and saying like the whole culture has suffered. Systemic racism robs the culture of masterpieces that we never even learn about, and this is one of a million reasons to address these persistent problems yen. One thing I was really struck by. Was that point that you brought up and brought up the introduction to this episode two? That black art is about more than educating white audiences about black pain and black art is more than just discussing racism. And often it came very quickly it of shoved into those pigeonholes, particularly in these kinds of moments of national crisis, which are ironically drumming up a big audience for the work at the same time. Tracy said this really great thing about Amish. Odds books being about liberation in one form or another, and it seems to me that one of the forms of liberation is liberating, the individual artist from racialist expectations of the work they're going to create I love that way of thinking about the onus on black writers to eliminate the black experience. It's very silly. Artists need freedom and. And there are of course many black writers who are engaged in that endeavour who are really thinking about the black experience civilians of race, but there are just as many who don't give a hoot about it. Who has a whole other project? Black books are not medicine for white readers. They're not a corrective. They are arts worth engaging with on its own terms, you know. This is something drove me absolutely bananas. After Tony Morrison died is the way that people talked about Toni Morrison's accomplishment as A. As a racial is congressman. It was. The Absolute Pinnacle of Black Literature on the one hand you know. She was a genius, but she was not engaged in a project, educating a bunch of people who didn't actually care about race about rates her. Project was much more complex and much more. Akin to Faulkner's writing worse than it was a genius and to talk about her as someone that you should pick up to help you learn empathy. In moments of political crisis is absolutely baffling to me. It is absolutely baffling to me and Robs Morrison of her great artistic accomplishment, which is just. It's impossible to overstate actually what she accomplished novelist, and so it's just so baffling that we and reductive the way that we talk about Black Art yes, absolutely and I think. Something you just mentioned there. It intersects with another pet peeve of mine so well. We're airing our peppino. which has to do with the insistence that arts value lies in its ability to generate empathy yes. Thing that art can do. That's wonderful. Do not get me wrong. That is a wonderful thing about art, but is not the only thing that are does that that sometimes does the exact opposite, and so I think there's a way in which that fallacy and you know really particular. Racial fallacies intersect very dangerous ways. The notion that are must like perform some function for you must efficiently help you accomplish something. It strikes me as very open and very sadly capitalist like the idea that it's only worth sitting down and spending seventeen hours reading the bluest. If? You're going to get something out of it what you're going to get transcendence like it's not worth it. Is that not enough? You also need to learn to feel something about strangers, and also if you don't already know how to feel something about strangers, you have much bigger problems. Yes, yes, of course, one of the remarkable things about all of this. This is that all of this also has to exist as you said within capitalism and book publishing as much as we like to talk about it like it's not a business or like it's a bad business or like no one understands it as a business, it is still a business I'm. Assad is a four profit company and is Tracy sure put it. She has to make money, or she won't have a job anymore to champion these books and I think for a lot of people. The actual business practices of the publishing industry are extremely Paik by a lot of people. I am including myself and I'm guessing you. Yeah you know what what is your feeling about that, do you? Is it still opaque to you? Do you feel like you've learned? Stuff doesn't make any sense. I mean I definitely in this conversation with. Tracy tried to kind of show off. What little knowledge I have and I'm just anticipating the emails from the literary agents and other business folklore might be listening saying. Oh, no, you're totally wrong. There's a lot of confusing language about what an advances or what a? What a profit and loss statement shows about the list inside of a house. There's all this language that you have to learn. If you're very lucky as I have been, you have an agent who is smart and help guide you through all of this confusing language, all of these complex financial arrangements. Yeah, art and capital are inextricably intertwined at least in the system in which we operate currently and. You know it's. Neither good nor bad. It's just the fact and it something that you need to look at directly. Yes, absolutely! This week I'm very excited. Because we have a listener question I feel like I feel like I think you have like a secret desire to really advise our listeners, and it's very sweet like i. hope that everyone who's listening will take this to Heart Isaac. Really does want us to be able to provide some insight for you, so you know I, WanNa be in conversation with our listeners, and this is a fun way to do it I think yeah. So this letter comes to us from emily who has a bit of an ethical quandary? Dear, working. I wrote a novel that remains in the proverbial drawer because it started out as a nugget that happened to a friend and the family. It's based on seemed to identifiable. The situation happened fifteen years ago. The husband and the family has since died. What do you think try to get it published knowing the chances are low for an unpublished writer anyway or keep it in the computer and move on to something else. Remind, what do you think? I'm not sure really how morality relates to art, making and I think it's an open question, or it's an endless debates. Because there's no excuse there's no authority. There's no governing body. You can't like. Go to the rabbi and say like. Is this okay, or is this not okay and you know only the individual writer knows the purity of their motives and the fairness of what they're doing. You. Know I'll say this I steal all the time. I eavesdrop when I'm out in public I'm a horrible eavesdrop. And fictionalized. Things that do not belong to me by right, a used circumstances and details from the lives of people I know or have met I'm turn them into anecdotes or dressing inside of a larger whole. I've used names that I like I'm really like a merciless thief, and the one thing I'll say is that no one who actually stolen from has ever identified that maybe because they've never read my work. So, that's one thing and the other thing I'll is. It seems fair to me, but then I'm not the one who is being fictionalized like I. Don't know how I would feel if Isaac? You wrote a novel about me. Yes, yes. I don't imagine that I could ever contain the multitude of remind. In in fiction, you know, it's interesting because my writing is primarily nonfiction, so I am primarily telling other people's stories vary overtly not without any disguise, and they have to trust me when I. Call Them Up and say tell me your story that I'm going to do it. In a way that is at the very least honest, even if they don't like how they come across and I take that obligation extremely seriously I think. When you move to fiction, the obligations are different, and there's a lot of writers who have written a lot of very pithy one liners about this like Joan Gideon's writers are always selling someone outright, or there's an episode of girls where Lena Dunham character, says everything my business before going to spy on on one of her friends. So so I think it is the kind of thing that it's very difficult to make generalizations about. You can really do is put yourself in the friends shoes and be like if they did this to me, would I be hurt by it? That is not though the end of the process. That's the beginning of the process. If the answer that question is yes, that doesn't mean you necessarily have to give up on the project. You could talk to them about it. You could try to disguise it and fictionalised further so that they wouldn't figure it out. You could decide that getting the work out. There is more important than that relationship which is completely. Fair decision to make. It's just the those questions lead to other questions that will eventually lead you to what you WanNa do with this particular work, but there is no shame in borrowing from the lives of those around you to create fiction. I don't know of really any work of fiction that doesn't contain at least a bit stolen from real life. I. Think that's right. I think it's very hard to answer but I liked I to really enjoy getting question, so please I hope that our listeners will send us more. And Emily if you're listening, let us know what you think. And to all of our listeners. If you've enjoyed the show, please consider signing up for sleep. Plus slate plus members get benefits like zero ads on any slate podcast bonus episodes of shows like slow-burn and dear prudence, and you'll be supporting the work we do here on working. It's only thirty five dollars for the first year, and you can get a free two week trial now at slate dot com slash working plus. Thank you to trays dish rod for being our guest this week and in Orleans. Thanks always tour producer Cameron Jerus-. We'll be back next week for a conversation between Isaac Butler await. That's me and writer. Taffy burr desert ackner until then hit back to work.
TKC 576 Julia Sommerfeld
"Hi this is linda. Julie and today is august sixteenth. I'm recording this episode at ocean park maine in my yes. This week is julius. Summer feld editorial director of amazon original stories. That's an imprint of amazon publishing and she's going to tell us about a lot of content. I wasn't aware of that. It's been quietly added in the last couple of years at amazon posting via amazon original stories we are at publisher in the context of technology company and so we're really eager to work with authors world world elders who are really interested in applying that type of imagination and creativity beyond the page since i last spoke to you you a week ago we have had the funeral service for my mother lowest edge really who died ten days ago the funeral was saturday august tenth ed followed by the burial in the family plot and subra massachusetts in the days since her passing you know and it was close in the funeral is going on and all that i i knew what i was supposed to do that. That's sort of the genius of all of the traditional activities that we followed <hes> order flowers proof the funeral programming. I'm an orbit call the cemetery invite guests and <hes> that kept me going through a period of real disorientation of you know what what really is lifelike without <hes> this woman who has been at the center of our family for ninety years starting a few days after the funeral or actually after the funeral itself i. I don't think it's been so obvious what to do. I i have some things that i'm helping dad with as he settles in with his new life. <hes> and returned to ocean park wants to visit my cousins and then <hes> also just to work here and put the show together and have some guests prior to her passing we had scheduled a visit to see her her and other members of the family by ben beach who was a friend of mine from college who has <hes> signed on to write a biography of my mother. He hoped to talk to her but that didn't work out because of the timing of passing but in the last few days he's been <hes> working with archives. My sister has at her house letters going back decades and that was another part of the project that kept me busy in the last few days <hes> come up here now to host my cousin peter who's visiting from austin and and his brother kevin and deb so they'll be here for a couple of days and then it'll be kind of going back and forth between here in cambridge <hes> over the next few days. I've started a song that was inspired by something. My mother always used to say when we were going to enter into some difficulty your challenge. She said i'm i'm going to put you in light so i started writing songs for my guitar with the help of my teacher steve naski <hes> titled put you in light. That's that's. That's a project like that draws on creativity. <hes> is really helping me move forward. I guess i'm just sort of <hes> noticing how how does seem to be waves of time that all of a sudden okay. I'm back doing the normal things in my life and then other times where i'm just sitting in the chair looking out at the ocean and not really knowing what to do. I've procrastinated putting the show together here quite dramatically and did have a bike ride. You know somethings things get traction and other things don't and i don't seem to have much control over it so i understand that the main task of these days is his to get through the end of another day. Try to help the family helped my dad especially and not hide from the emotions the sadness after all of the <hes> family intensity of the service we had about one hundred ten people at the <hes> at the chapel forward and beautiful burial services services well <hes> there's times just of emptiness you know of coldness of you know what the <hes> she's gone well. That's that's significant can win. The mind starts playing with the idea of some of being gone forever that that's the part that i haven't really figured out a place for in my mental map and it just descends sometimes a pretty pretty heavy way <hes> it helps to talk to people i've got <hes> friends and and places where i can share what's going on and certainly darlene and the rest of the family were all going through it together and that's what you do. That's that's how you get through it in the midst of that. I'm glad that the show must go on. I've got a show for you and i'll be getting it up early so now that i'm rested for tomorrow and peter and kevin and debby yet here. Let's start out with some news well. It's a long way from a family lost like this to news about amazon but i think it's a good thing to <hes> check check in with it and i have been noticing kind of his background noise some of the things that have been in the news about the amazon in recent days one thing i have been following allowing is there's a new podcast of called land of the giants. It's out by recode and vox media in the hostess jason del rey. I've always thought jason as an del rey's reporting when he was reporting for other outlets was was really top notch. She just seemed to be thorough and he had an objective. Take on amazon and <hes> i so i was quite <hes> looking forward to this podcast and <hes> i've listen to three of the first four episodes so far and i'll have to confessed to it at best kind of an ambivalent about it. The the reporting in some of the episodes is excellent. There's <hes> a part heart in the first or second podcast talks about how prime was invented and that story is told well with some deep sourcing within the company and then <hes> <music> some of the innovations that have enabled amazon to deliver packages so quickly good reporting there but the part that's baffling to me. Is that ed midst. All of this solid reporting. There's seems to be kind of gratuitous. Talk talk about how <hes> amazon is creepy creepy because it's big it's creepy as maybe alexis listening to us in an appropriate way and there's a kind of <hes> omar's to a story line about amazon which you you hear a lot and it's not a ridiculous story line to be concerned about a company that has this much power but it's just weird coming from this jason del ray who i don't think really <hes> you know is is sort of one of the leading conspiracy theorists about amazon this really showed showed itself in an interview that he did with ezra klein who has a a major podcasts and interviews all kinds of people and he interviewed jason del rey about the new podcast so it's getting a lot of buzz in canada the podcast community and as reclined who's i think one of the smartest journalists around <hes> clearly believed that amazon has recordings of everything that are alexa devices <hes> has said and and that if they wanted to they could go in and just randomly listened to everything that <hes> anybody has said in the presence of one of these devices well jason to his is credited well. Actually that's not true. The only recordings that exist are the ones that are triggered by the words so if you say alexa and then you ask the question that question does exist as a recording and you can go and listen to all the recordings that are there and you can race them into whatever you want but <hes> i thought it was <hes> instructive to see someone who's that well-informed as reclined <hes> making this breathtaking assumption about god how alexa really is big brother because she's always recording everything and <hes> jason <hes> correcting on it so i am keeping an open mind and i would really appreciate if anybody is listening to this podcast you can get it on apple and all the regular <hes> podcasts places who what do you make of it. I think there's <hes> i'm hearing useful reporting and kind of an odd <hes> overtone that is <hes> lining up put some of the people who are saying <hes> gee whiz. We've really got to be afraid of of amazon and of course the campaign trail democratic side. There's there's some of that is coming thing in quite a shrill way even to bernie sanders <hes> saying that the post isn't giving him good coverage because he's spoken out against amazon oh not paying taxes and jeff bezos post and <hes> i tell you that was <hes> kind of breathtaking and he walked back <hes> i. I don't think there's anybody buddy that has gotten within fifty miles of the washington post news rome who would support the idea that jeff bezos calls up and gives any kind of guidance about stories whether they involve bernie sanders or or anyone else that that firewall between the owners <hes> work to so have the post survive by using the internet in intelligent ways and i think the post is now making a profit under his leadership <hes> and tinkering being with it in on the editorial side <hes>. Is it just it. It's ridiculous and i find really disappointing when somebody nobody plays around with that with that attitude. Where was i oh. I think the other other thing that i've heard in jason del rey's a podcast <hes> maybe from ezra klein and there. There's a a a way of talking about amazon. That's powder now. They're creepy there alexis listening to the getting too big and we gotta have antitrust action or something like that and then the person will always say of course you know. I do buy everything from amazon amazon. I <hes> it's so convenient this and that so there's there's a disconnect where if people really believed it was a sinister operation wouldn't they just stop shopping there and if they do keep shopping there why is that well because <hes> they are designing the whole company to be customer centric and i i know in my interactions with them. You know i maybe i had a bad customer experience. One time. I tried to return something. I can't remember it because every time i have any interaction with people people <hes> at amazon i there on the phone within seconds and they're solving my problem in ways that usually surprise me so maybe an inconsistency that that is creeping in so a lot of currents <hes> that are afoot as the election comes and now we have a new podcast which is going to be listened to by a lot a lot of people and we'll have probably reflect attitudes toward amazon and perhaps <hes> have some affect on shaping them going forward. If you've heard leonard the giants have thoughts about please send me an email at pod chronicles at gmail.com. I think the the theory is that once this first first year <hes> or season is done about amazon then it'll be moving on to talk about <hes> other big tech companies probably google apple. The other news story that that has to do with the interview with julius summerfield is the deal that amazon publishing announced with dean koontz who's been on the show before <hes> and they assigned five book deal with him to write books for thomas and mercer which is one of the imprint for amazon publishing and also <hes> a series under the amazon original stories which will hear about from julia. This is pretty big news. This is by far the biggest author who has signed on from a traditional publisher. I think <hes> koonce was mainly with random house for years. <hes> with amazon publishing for an actual book deal not just a special kindle single or something like that but an actual series of books going forward and in his comments about it he pretty specifically said the the reason he chose amazon is because innovative and their pioneering and he at age seventy four someone who's looking for a publisher who can <hes> move into the the modern world in a way that is <hes> you know maybe not tied down by the way things have always been like possibly. How do you price and e book so the porter anderson who has excellent publishing perspectives coverage of the industry raise raise the question will others follow coots wants. A big name goes <hes>. It's been ten years since amazon. Publishing was founded in at the start. I think a lot of people were thinking <hes> <hes> gee this is the goal they're just gonna try to go after patterson and all these other big authors and then for a while there was a feeling that amazon publishing as a failure because they haven't gone some of the big authors while the last ten years posing has done some really creative things and gradually has taken a larger share of the publishing business just by <hes> <hes> doing pretty smart working marketing books. We've had some authors on here who have paid tribute to <hes> how happy they are with the marketing the whole experience with amazon publishing so steady improvement steady work in the industry and now recently <hes> landing big fish dean koontz wants <hes> that's pretty remarkable and well-timed as amazon publishing <hes> i think the anniversary it's sometime this year here. I know it was founded in two thousand nine so it's been ten years since the start of amazon publishing for the tip i want to pass along a couple of emails that i received from listeners cindy brooks and at first describing problem with sinking her oasis as with <hes> another device and was getting pretty frustrated about it and then the the good news is in the second email she <hes> by consulting the forms uh-huh found the answer and i think it's an answer that might be of use to to a lot of us highland cindy wrote. This is a while ago. I'm catching up with old the comments comments but it's a sort of timeless wondering if you might have any insights i just spent an uncharacteristically frustrating half hour on the phone speaking with two different amazon reps and my problem persists myo acis will not sync with my other devices yes whisper sink enable both on the devices and on my managers devices page this has been going early on for a while over different books but i haven't been reading on the oasis much lately and just recently realized that it was a problem not a fluke i have gone through several restarts deregistered deregistered and reregistered the device on a full factory reset. Nothing has worked the second rep. I spoke with had no other options for me other than to refer to a software after engineer who would then report back to her and she would contact me again and several days very anathemas on like needless to say. I'm frustrated that this top of the line kindle device device latest model with the latest offer just won't sync not even manually. I never realized how wonderful this feature is until it's not there any ideas for the first time i i really felt like the reps. Were just going down a checklist and not really listening to me. Is there some simple solution. I just haven't thought of hoping you can help. Regards cindy brooks well. I think i i think even before i had a chance to weigh in. I'd i don't think i would have come up with the answer is clearly as <hes> what she found. <hes> cindy wrote this lent glenn. I may have solved my quandary out of frustration. After my call amazon i started searching about on the kindle website to see if i'd miss anything i finally stumbled pulled across the kindle forums and after several tries settled on just entering sinking in the query field a question from a year ago mentioned a similar problem as mine and one of the responses noted that when leaving a device one should close the book and exit to the homepage so that the last page read registers. This seems to have been the symbol of information. I was searching for and so far seems to have solved my problem needless to say i'm really surprised that this simple bit of info wasn't the the first thing the rep mentioned and my frustration is compounded by all the unnecessary steps. I took in the time wasted on the other hand. I now know it's prudent to check the forms. I i thanks for all you do cindy. I think that i- somewhere i might of heard that tip my own practices when i finish a book <hes> i don't just closed close the cover it that can be hand because when you open the book on your kindle <hes> you're right where you left off. I usually do close the book go back to the home screen and and <hes> i haven't had the kind of sinking problems that sinuous talking about whether a ways <hes> so that might be abusive <hes> you're having singing problems across this your devices <hes> probably just make sure when you leave a book to close it and go out to the home patient. Thanks andy for passing that a long the time for the interview julia summer feld who earned a b._a. In anthropology at arizona state university and a master's in journalism mm-hmm at stanford worked at m. s. n. b. c. the seattle times and n._b._c.'s today show before joining amazon publishing in twenty fifteen as senior in your manager for product and innovation. She is now executive editor of kindle singles and since november of two thousand seventeen she has also bend directing amazon original stories about which you will hear more in our conversation i spoke with her by skype and phone on wednesday august fourteenth and i began him by asking her. Just tell us a little bit more about her background. I've met a trail director of amazon original stories. <hes> and my background is actually as a journalist. I i started out in newspapers. I was investigative journalist and a features writer and before joining amazon. I worked today show as features editor and developing clipping their digital presence and so i've always loved short reads <hes> and i've always been really inspired by the opportunity to make them truly satisfying and take with you even if you're just reading them on your phone while you're waiting in line and so <hes> amazon original stories is the short fiction and non fiction imprint uh of amazon publishing we publish you know what we strive to make unforgettable single sitting read and collections of short stories from a a wide range of bestselling authors acclaimed storyteller as well as new voices to kindle audible. We're fairly new. We launched the end of two thousand seventeen <hes> on and we've already published more than eighty titles already break in here with an audio note i was talking with julia by phone at her and and and when she was using a headset i thought was getting some clipping in that. It wasn't sounding so good so i asked her to switch to the speakerphone. It has its own problems but i think it was the better choice and so you'll hear a difference in the audio starting from here. Here's my next question was a rickshaw joe. The first amazon original stories title it was one of our first title it published at the end of twenty seventeen. I believe it was our third. Actually <hes> it it was our first project object with dean koontz <hes> with amazon and i remember you talked to dean right around the time he was ricocheted joe with the relief lovely the interview ricochet joe <hes> really helped to launch an original stories and then really set the bar as creative collaborator both breath and the writer of really put on a stories and just the kind of gracious human. You wanna work with again so <hes> we've been really excited to get the oppor kennedy to work with him again as you know we've got a project coming up with him later the fear right now one thing i remember from talking to him at that time is that <hes> he was very enthusiastic about the kindle motion animation aspects that <hes> were part of ricocheted joe and that also going to be a part of the series that you're going to be releasing in november. Actually we aren't going to be including in book animation in the new collection that we're doing with him called nameless <hes> we're doing some other types of innovations with that. He's been a really great partner at thinking of new things and you know sharing during his imagination with us <hes> you know despite selling something like half a billion of his books he still really open to trying new things as a storyteller <hes> <hes> and so we worked with him. I ricochet joe on rolling out some of our new book innovations like animations full bleed images animated covers and this time around he came to us with this idea of a series of stories about mister mysterious vigilante killer with no memory and no name and we just jumped at the chance to work with him and figure out what would be the best way to bring the story to life so as a result. It's november. Are we going to publish a full amazon. Original stories collection with him called nameless breath. It's a six part episodic mystery. That's really meant to be binge. Binge read or binge listened. Each episode has its own contain story but the series unfolds greater mystery of this man known as name one uh-huh and so we're really working with him to kind of innovate on more the delivery mechanism the idea of real episodic short stories that add up to a full narrative <hes> on and so that's where we're investing without one yeah will they all be available at once so if somebody wants to binge <hes> all six of them in one sitting will that that'd be possible or we have to wait for days before the next one comes. Now that's right. That's right. We're going to binge. Drop them off. All stories will get one and you'll be able able to read or listen or with or toggle back and forth using the whispers think for voice technology that we're using <hes> i'll at once so we're hoping they're truly put out there was another series i forget the authors woman and she had a series of stories and when i read them on kendall unlimited each of them was a separate title for kindle unlimited so i had to free up you know however many there were in the series. It's probably the same now as opposed to having the whole collection be considered one title for kindle limited each story story is an individual title so people can kind of pick and choose which ones they want or we hope that they'll get the whole bundle altogether together and i'd like to go back if we could to your first approach to what he said was that amazon called him up and i assume that might've been you <hes> and asked if he had any stories that might be available <hes> as a amazon original story and the quote in the press press release july twenty seconds caught. I think some of what i heard when i talked to him. He said this new arrangement is so exciting. I've been creatively rejuvenated. The times are changing and it's invigorating to beware changes understood and embraced now. He's seventy four years old and i i'm impressed that he he might write that part of the reason he turned amazon then and now he's come back in a big way with the thomson mercer books and also the the original stories that he's <hes> kind of a pioneer and that's what he saw on amazon publishing and which led to this prehistoric new collaboration between the two yeah. I think so i mean he i mean like i said despite his monumental successes. He's just not content to you. Keep doing things the same way over and over and he definitely challenge is kind of you know traditional thinking and he's always looking for opportunities committed to try something new so both when it came to innovating on the content itself <hes> like with ricky joe using animation or the rollout mechanism unisom for nameless. He's always looking for something new and you know we are a publisher in the context of technology company and so we're really eager to work with authors world elders who are really interested dead and applying that type of imagination creativity you know beyond the page. What are some of the other things amazon. Original stories has to offer authors well. We we really like to think of amazon original stories as something of a playground for authors writers have a chance to flex their short story muscles or to explore outside the genre. They're most known for <hes> for instance. Just walter alter the author of the absolutely amazing ethic bestseller beautiful ruin recently wrote an amazon original story for us called terrible and it was charming winning love story about the dog who left him for another man and so that was just so far afield from the type of epic novel that he unusually right and he just had a great time and we really enjoyed being able to publish that and other recent example is taylor jenkins read need <hes> she's the novelist who daisy johnson the sex and she wrote an epistolary short story called evidence of the affair it was she wanted to try her hand at that and and <hes> we provided the right outlet for her to reach readers who absolutely love her and are eager for anything she wants to try. I think there's a mentioned by the eighteen as well as the marketing innovation that amazon publishing is known for i've heard from other authors who've made the switch that <hes> you know there's there's no one one week window of promotion of the book. It's sort of around the year and with lots of different ways to to market a book. Is that something that you also stress. When you're approaching authors is that they're going to experience <hes> marketing of their book in a way that perhaps i just haven't seen before yeah we always are sure to set set expectations that you know we we're developing new playbook based on new opportunities we we as they said we're part of a technology company so we're always looking for new ways to innovate on each front of the pub whether it's in the content or in the marketing <hes> and the right i type of author really appreciate <hes> being heard of that and then how about for for readers and listeners what are the special aspects of <hes> trying one of these amazon original stories if someone hasn't done it so far well all of our stories and art collections are free as digital audio download with prime or kindle and limited membership <hes> so there's a great deal to be had <hes> and readers can really expect something completely original and unexpected from their most beloved authors and then be introduced to new favorite writers all within a couple of hours. We see the short content from these amazing writers as having a real low barrier for entry for readers who are interested in trying author for the first time or who just can't wait until their favorite authors. Next novel comes out <hes>. There's so much wonderful oh storytelling out there right now on t._v. On podcast <hes> you know we're just looking to create more entry points for reading <hes> we we have a really simple the goal of providing readers with single sitting stories that we think they'll love and get hooked on giving is a nice way to frame it. <hes> you're the range and word count is is from what the smallest to the largest number of words and in one of the originals well. I mean they really range from a five thousand word essay to a thirty thousand word novella so a single sitting can be you know something that you listen to who in a thirty minute commute or could be something that you know you finish a couple of hours south were not hugely prescriptive on that and we kind of allow the story to <hes> to find it natural links one thing to the i love reading novels reading moby dick online. I'm like kindle. It's taken months when you sit down when you when i put a book in my inbox that's a full length book three hundred pages or so. There's this long horizon before. I'm going to finish it and be able to start another one and even if i don't read one of these kimball original stories <hes> in one setting it. It's a it's a doable amount of reading and <hes> suspect that's partly whether so popular yeah i think so i think as i sent people people have so much amazing storytelling out in front of them right now. You know whether it's you know the t._v. Show that they're binging or a podcast that they i love. There's amazing new audio plays coming out <hes> that you know we really are are looking to get in front of people who are looking for stories and they we have different amounts of time available. So sometimes you want something that you can finish within an hour and you just know that you're going to have a really satisfying experience. We've talked about some of the collections that are there other collections that you've published so far that you'd like to mention short this summer we we launched one called disorder which was really a chilling collection of these twisted short stories that imagine the horrors of a modern world that a little similar to our own <hes> and it featured authors including mingeon lee lee and laura mucus name wally powell <hes> mention lease story the best girls is is what happens when a korean girl sees no value in her life. It was inspired by a true story and it's something that i just can't stop thinking about <hes>. It's it's a really great one. If you wanna check that one out <hes> we've published twelve collection so far ranging from horror to true crime pop science climate fiction thrillers investigative journalism <hes> and so we're really looking to provide a variety of high quality fiction and nonfiction short stories about half and half fiction and nonfiction so far roughly turned out that way. Sometimes we get in a period where we're rolling out a couple of nonfiction collections in a row we launched a collection called <hes> inventions this spring which was <hes> <hes> the stories the science and cultural stories of major inventions <hes> and we did did an investigative journalism collection called exposure that had a story called bad therapist from the journalist evan right which is really a must read i think <hes> and so in in some curious we've had some more nonfiction. We've done some seasonal stuff like lack. Halloween did a collection called dark corners which with it's really scary story when you're looking for authors to in the future. What types of qualities are you looking for. When when you try to recruit your next authors well you know next summer. We're publishing an essay collection written and narrated from mindy kaeling about life as a single single mom. That's pretty much dream collaboration. Somebody like her who's really interested in writing stories in a new way who's interested in in the narration side of it and who has you know a huge following that so eager to hear what else she have to say when she epitomizes. Is that pretty well. I think <hes> we have stories from literary. Greats like joyce carol oates the political comedian w. kamau bell like i said the journalist evan and right i mean we it really runs the gamut but you know we're really looking for people who are at the top of their game whether that game journalism comedy <hes> or literary. Are you also having a chance to select some debut writers. Yes we we are we in our collection. Though one <hes> that we published a couple of weeks ago i mean we are the story ranged from a really beautiful essay from jacqueline woodson the national book award winner and a story from a debut author named allison l._s. who wrote in gorgeous essay that is is strangely humorous and heartwarming about dating right after her husband died <hes> and so we definitely are looking to your new voices that we think should be heard of part of the cultural conversation and did some of your amazon original stories authors also published with <hes> other rams on publishing imprints thomson mercer and some of the others yeah yeah in fact. I mean of course dean koontz. His first projects have been with amazon original stories and now he's gone on to sign line five book deal with tom. Mercer we published a christmas story last year called. What child is this from reese bowman <hes> she's a bestselling historical fiction action author who publishes with amazon publishing's <hes> imprint lake union <hes> and in the one the love story collection that i mentioned also so included a story from name copter who's another amazon publishing author. She wrote heavy street with our little imprint and you've got an an upcoming science fiction collective very tough but this is with andy weird play crouch and others were. Can you tell us about that. We're really excited. We're publishing. A sci-fi thriller collection called forward next month on september seventeenth. It has six stories from a real all star cast of authors including blake crowd crowd and kate jemison. Veronica roth a more told paul tremblay andy. We're <hes> we're calling our avengers cast. <hes> these authors authors all grappled with the same central theme of the collection which is the resounding effects of a pivotal technological moment but they created such different stories stories. Andy weir's is about a casino heist and blade crouches about breaking the boundaries of a video game <hes> in addition to the stories. We're working talking with an amazing cast of narrators. <hes> evan rachel wood from westworld is narrating a story david harbour who plays a sheriff on stranger things is narrating one david isaacs star trek is narrating one so <hes> that's one that we're super excited about <hes> reaching new readers and listeners with coming out number seventeen and again the law be dropping at once so you can injury read them at right that's right and it's kind of an example like two good examples of collections and the range of what they can be are that one where it's a central theme we're we have gone to some of our favorite authors and asked them if they had a story <hes> that that theme would prompt versus the dean kootz collection which is a single author who had essentially of narrative that he wanted to tell an episodic form so i can collections really can range and serve different purposes for collecting different sort stories. I'm just really happy to hear your interest in. It and i love short res. I love exposing more readers to short reads and we're really loving the reaction both from authors earth and readers. I've been speaking with julius summerfield editorial director of amazon original stories. Thanks very much. Julia <music> jillian mentioned a lot of things that you might be interested in reading and i took the time to put links to as many of them as as i could in the show notes which you'll find the kindle chronicles dot com in the unusual times <hes> lately. I have been falling behind on keeping keeping up with comments that i'd like to share with you so let's catch up with some of that now. Here's one from dan who wrote this is. After i did the interviews on the beach i was looking. I'm for people reading kindles and then <hes> doing a man on a beach survey with them. Dan wrote what a unique and simple idea and it turned out to be very interesting the episode. I'm surprised there's a few good books too. I think debbie with the cobo thought that the kindle cannot get library books. My libraries offer e books for the kindle kindle. Maybe it depends on the library but i think a lot of libraries offer kindle editions. I have to say enjoy your mix of episode types. I love hearing from authors and professionals but these candida episodes always seem to turn out just as fun. Thanks land dan <hes>. I had fun doing that too. So i'm glad that <hes> and i did hear some other comments to the people are interested in especially. It's just fun to go up and ask people. What are you reading. There was a real mix of books that we heard about that. <hes> here's one from james wellman. I received the echo auto. It's all right. These slim profile is nice. Interface with ways is a little buggy. I've had the garments speak for some time time very small which i like. It has a small screen which shows turns nice but i like ways because of the crowd sourcing traffic conditions so like everything pluses and minuses sinuses clearly. The echo is on beta. We shall see <hes> that's interesting and i received an email from karen in horvath <unk> listener out in seattle who i've met in person that had we had dinner one night out there by the first <hes> amazon bookstore and she has an <hes> <hes> echo auto that she is not going to use so she offered to send it to me and i think it will be coming here pretty soon to ocean park. I can't wait to try it out tesla and <hes> thanks very much karen for making that available to me out. I'll try it out and that'll be something. I'll be able to talk to you about. In a future episode <hes> heard from scott or not that i mispronounced a the the name of a town in minnesota. I can't remember what happened was about even console long ago highland just a quick note here after briefly pausing your latest podcast to correct your pronunciation of the twin cities south west suburb herb of shock appea- that's how he phonetically spells a here. It's spelled s. h. A. k. o. p. I'm sure i called a shack appear <hes> some mangoni of it but it's shock copy <hes> he writes <hes> scott writes. Most non minnesotans get wrong most notably on the nineties nineties t._v. Show coach which supposedly took place there now. I can finish your podcast and then go to lunch and enjoy my choices to kindle on which i'm currently reading red moon by kim stanley robinson. <hes> local pronunciation was when i lived in wyoming there was a city and it was spelled d. u. B. <music> oh i s and it was on the way to jackson from casper and you know i know french. I know the right way to spill that is do blah. Well not in wyoming. If you don't call it do boys. You prove that you're <hes> from out of town. There was another river called <hes> it was spelled p. o. P. <hes> <hes> oh and then eight g. i. E. maybe pope popo aggie no proposer so <hes> and now if if i'm ever <hes> in the twin cities on oh how to say shock apy craig daniels wrote <hes> that he had stacked discounts on prime day and this was <hes> i think we'd heard about that from someone else too so as a way to get <hes> trade the oasis to in for seventy five dollars gift coupon and then get twenty five percent off the next kindle purchase. He also get ten percent off whole foods during prime days so there was a way to get the price of the new. You always us down to something manageable. <hes> i'm gonna try that too because i think i am going to spring for the new oasis the one that i'm using the review copy i have really fallen in love with that <hes> kind of <hes> sepia color and i've made my peace with the limits of the of the cover so i think that's that's probably going to be my next preferred kindle. Dan morgan wrote. I've been an avid listener for years. I need some advice. My first generation oasis got wet and the cover quick charging. This has been a perfect device for me since two thousand sixteen one hand reading <hes> slips in in in my pocket tuck it i love the buttons disappears my hand. I've never been happier reading. It kills me. I can't get another one now. This is the original oasis and darlene. That's the one that she <hes> loves love and will not switch to one of the more recent ones dance question. How does the new oasis compare to the new paperweight. I think you said your wife like the first wastes better. I understand the new oasis bigger and heavier. Maybe the paperweight would be better since it's smaller but no buttons both are waterproof now. What are your thoughts <hes>. <hes> you know it's a close call. I think that the paperweight is slim down. It's a really nice device with the latest iteration of it. The oasis has the bigger screen. It has the buttons it's more expensive and <hes> i think the best way to decide if you're trying to decide one or the other is <unk>. Get to a store one of the <hes> amazon bookstores or just any other place. That's has the devices and you can hold them in your hand and and get a feel for it. I think you you can think about the specifications and see it all on paper but your hands are probably the best way to decide <hes> between these two devices supplemented letter by what whatever your your pocketbook pocketbook advises <hes>. That's it for this week. I'd don't know who will be talking to next week. Ah i'm gonna leave you with a song that my niece fran bentley on sang at the funeral was going to share some comments that's my sister stephanie and i made but as listened to in there it was a little ri- head trouble getting true men. <hes> you know i it was a public setting and everything but to pull those into the podcast. I just thought that wasn't didn't seem to fit particularly as you know it's it's now time to move into ordinary every time <hes> and not be focusing so much on on this <hes> family lost it has certainly been on our minds the last couple of weeks but i do want to leave you with with the song it's <hes> the glory of love and <hes> minus friend has got a voice from heaven so when she got up there with her instrument and played the song <hes> pretty much broke all of us in half and put us back together. You were poor <music> and aw as long as uh. I got <music> <music> slow <music>.
Episode 396: Kierna Mayo with Patrice Peck
"Hello, and welcome to be long-form podcast. My name is Patrice. Pack Hi, Patrice. It's Max. Patrice was seven and this. Is Aaron Lamour Welcome? Glad to be here? y'All we are. We are glad to have you. Aaron and Evan and I were thinking had been thinking about what to do on the show this week and We were thinking about it last week and then Friday morning. Patrice sent all three of us a message. Saying. Well, you can tell me what you said. I just wanted to let you guys know that I'm a big fan of the podcast, but I also realize you know. We're having all these conversations now about the lack of. In newsrooms and in media and you know black journalists are. Starting to hold these media companies accountable and so. I had had some thoughts on long form in terms of the diversity and inclusion so long far pike has y'all have definitely covered. A wide range of black journalists and journalists in general, however I did recognize that there was a lack of black journalist from historically black publications. is realized the black journalists who were featured in your podcast were black journalists who are often featured in many interview series in media, and so I thought you guys had a really cool opportunity giving your platform to really highlight and spotlight some black journalists who have been. And still are doing amazing innovative disruptive things in their industry and that what better time than now you know to have those people on to tell their stories. We certainly appreciate it that note, and and we certainly agreed, and then you got on the phone and. Has Idea of of you hosting this week show Yep and we wanted to know who you wanted to talk to you and I started talking to. You had these fantastic ideas and. Why don't you tell us about the first person who is going to be on the show with you hosting well, the listeners are in luck because I chose Keyarena Mayo. I I met here. No Mayo when I was a journalism graduate student at Nyu Shot Out Studio Studio Twenty Program She was at the time. The editorial director of Ebony Dot Com the digital sister of the historic Ebony magazine shortly afterwards, Kiernan became the editor in chief of the print magazine, also Ebony magazine, right, and so this was amazing an amazing time. She was creating all these disruptive cover. She had the bill cosby. Cosby cover where there was a photo of him. Smashed is really speaking to what was happening not only in black culture at the time, but also American culture right because those are two in the same but then I realize I was speaking with Max about here NNA I was like wow, you know. She had a whole rich career before I even knew her, and I didn't know much about it. I knew she had been at the source magazine and I knew she had launched and become editor in chief of her own magazine honey magazine at the crazy age of twenty seven. Right so. We we got to talk to her. She's a vision Naree, and she's a pioneer. Patrice. Maybe you could just tell us a little bit about yourself what you've been working recently. I'm a journalist currently freelance saying I'm all about writing stories for about the black community? The whole reason I became a journalist was to provide a voice for the voiceless, particularly my own community Yes, so I launched US newsletter called Corona Virus News for Black folks. This newsletter was my way of making sure that the black community was given a comprehensive source of news as it was directly related to them in the krona virus. So please you know check that out is at www dot, krona virus news, four black folks dot com, and you had a op-ed recently about some of the subjects. You're speaking out in the New York Times. Yes, a long story short. You know we're all journalists. We are already stressed. It's twenty four seven news. News Cycle Right. However you know these two pandemics, the coronavirus, pandemic and police brutality, an overall systemic racism. Both of those pandemics are disproportionately impacting the black community, a community which not only report about, but I'm a member of that community right and so I'm not within a vacuum I have friends and family who have been directly impacted or infected by covid nineteen. You know a majority of essential workers are black and Brown people. My own mother is a nurse and so. I'm reporting on this I. I'm seeing you know all these instances of black suffering and black death, and you know we are human, you know I'm I can't for all black journalists and I don't want to. Because we are not a monolith, however I know I've been speaking to a lot of my peers, and it's really been hitting us a lot, not to mention the you know. Media is not within a vacuum. We have systemic racism and institutional racism within these media companies, and so there's just a lot happening for me and my peers right now, but like I said in my essay. We're going to keep on keeping on because you know. We very passionate about what we do so. What we're so excited to have you guest hosting and were thrilled that you're able to get to come on the show. This is an amazing conversation and. If. You want to start an amazing conversation. An email newsletter format. There is no better way to do it than with a male chimp newsletter. Enough people listening have noticed. I am no longer on social media, but I am thinking about starting an email newsletter so goodbye ever, and whoever followed me on twitter, but hello to my future mail chimp newsletter. Here is Patrice with Cuna. Male Hello Carolina, thank you so much for agreeing to be interviewed by me how I. Put trees I am beyond thrilled. I'm just excited and open and I know this. Is GonNa be a great conversation? Thank you for having me so. When I first met you I was a journalism graduate student. And why you? You were the editorial director of Ebony Dot Com, and you know I was doing thesis for my graduate program with my girl crazy, and so I came to you with this idea to have a multimedia agency avenue dot com would be the case study. You were totally down didn't know me or quasi, but you said come through. You know you put us up in the conference room. So seriously as we gave our presentation. And listen let me. I will never forget this because. I was like a mid early. Whatever twenty something year old black girl journalists like approaching this legacy. Historic black publication and I was like y'all like she's being so respectful of us as sort of like pure, and not even like all these girls who you know I'm giving them some of my time as a sort of like charity as like you have US thoughtful questions. And it was just a very great experience, but you know what I'm realizing now is that I didn't know that much about Kiernan before Evans Dot. COM Right I didn't know your legacy and you're history, so that's kind of where I want us to start off with today. Oh that was a rich memory for me because I remember how brilliant you both were you know it stands out to me that you showed up with. A spirit of willingness and invention. But I'll tell you patrice my entire. Career has been predicated on my ability to. Communicate with young people. Understand. Observe. Be led by young people and part of it. I think is one part, just my natural. kind of makeup. The other part is that I started my career at a very high level at a very young age in a world where there wasn't much precedent for what I was doing, and the space that I was coming out of so a lot of people didn't take me seriously and I was in fact quite serious and I have learned. You know quite selfishly that you cannot win. If, you don't have the sensibility enough to note to make sense. Of Patrice and to make time for her when she walks through your door, this may be. My particular truth as a black woman media because there have been so few of us before. And even. After me, even considering your generation, you know the next kind of wave of young black women to fill up this cultural space with actual storytelling, there still could be a lot more of us than there actually are. So the your first instinct is like pay attention to this young woman who is taking her craft seriously enough that this is her thesis. Also know what you don't know I mean having Jamila by my side. Was just an infant gift? It just never stopped giving her brilliance her perspective. Her friends are my friends. Now as is just. I much like I feel sorry for women who say they aren't friends with other women or they e, they just can't get with other women for whatever reason I feel the same way for people who are middle, aged and older who don't have that space in that relationship with young people's like what a loss such a loss! Oh! I saw that purely as more of what I do, and being gifted, and also blessed because here we are yes, definitely in so. I want to touch on something you did mention which was. From a young age at a very high point in your career, so talk a little bit about cairn before I met you okay, so that that first window of my professional life begins really early right out of Hampton University. I was a mass media major I wrote for the school paper I was really disappointed in the politics Hampton, university then as I am today, so there was a lot to talk about. Then there were a lot of. Unresolved kind of questions around race and power that the institution being as conservative as it was was unwilling to take on so in some respects. I tried my hand at finding my voice and identifying that. Are Play as black people in this country, our specific plate of black women in this country deserve a certain kind of Lens attention that I knew the adults around me weren't providing. So, When I didn't get the internship at essence magazine. I've told this story before, but it really is foundational to my entire story, because I only wanted to work at essence magazine I, only wanted to be at essence magazine, and just for context you know. Obviously there's no Internet but there's also no anything else you think about through a modern lens when you think about black female iconography and imagery today, none of those things existed including your faves on the cover of name. Your magazine. Vogue Elle whatever your girl was not there, so it's a different time. Scrapie, a sound like a very oh person. Now I had no business being into essence in this respect. It was four my mother. At that time it decidedly, it wasn't college. Women's book is what I'm saying. Yes, at that time was for someone was more. My Mom's peer a thirty something at that time of forty something that. I was twenty nineteen, eighteen, even fantasizing about being in that space. but it's also because culturally that was it. Yes, and it's important to realize that we were just like. Every generation of black women has like these same kind of core. Desires to be seen and to be recognized and to discover her beauty, and to feel her power, and to be loved by her people. It's all the things that we crave desire need today in a firm on instagram in every other photo. With Absent Save Save for essence, so give sister I do for life all the flowers. Yes, all the fail. Because it predicates it all. So when out for an internship didn't get it. Couldn't believe it. My life was completely over I was like why did I go to college? This shit is a joke. What do I do? What do I do what I do? had a girlfriend who was immediate major like me, and she told me that she had had a friend that she went to high school with who was starting this rat magazine in New York. He's a white boy, but you'll like him. Like none of it, none of it made sense. Hip? HOW MAGAZINE! White boy like I was like okay. Okay, I'm looking for a job. I'm actually looking for a job, thanks. So, should I go to the source and meet with the publisher and history was made actually was hired to be on the business side, and that lasted all of a month, and the source was very experimental. It's really hard to understand that time now because things have evolved so much, but it was really a I. You know we had serious rock and roll journalism if you will. Of course, they were rolling stones, and the the spins of culture and the New York. Times had You don't music writers that were celebrated at the time, but nothing was really dedicated to hip, hop, music, and or culture, which by extension meant nothing was censoring. The black youth experience. And we had a lot to talk about so get into the source. Really was a place that I blossomed. I grew up really quickly I went from being associated to senior editor all ultimately in. A very small shop and there was a lot of opportunity and exposure, and I was on panels at Harvard I. was you know just kind of blowing up overnight? They call the source at the time. The Bible of hip hop culture in politics. It was really that celebrated and exalted as the preeminent. So in the absence of Google and. Other sources that we have to kind track down information, there was one reliable source at the time, and no pun intended. That's where I was, so it was a real platform to launch into my honey years. The big takeaway from my source years was that we needed women to really. Center the idea that. Black women and really all women who were participating in this hip hop experiment. Deserved and needed a space. And that? We needed to ourselves because no one else was gonNA protect us. Known was going to tell her stories. No one was going to tell the truth. No one was going to be critical and honest about the. Impossible world that black girls and women occupied at that time, especially those of us who were just a very close part of the culture, really shaping it. so honey was born I got with my best friend from college Joycelyn Dingle, who's quite the visionary and has far more of of a work ethic than I've ever had and she was just like. Now. We knocked on every door for years and years and years and years and years, and we picked ourselves to the shares in. We lived in Kinko's and we make copies of business plans and. Finally. We got someone to listen to us and take seriously, and they immediately told Dome Bring Lawyers, and you don't even need a business plan because what we're interested in doing is an idea very similar to this? And we will do it with you or without you, and that is how honey begins. Okay, yes, so a lot of learning for me in my early years, so I'm twenty seven win. Honey began some now. The editor in Chief of National Magazine. That's also. Creating, a new John Laura if you will, there was several publications that kind of followed in that space, but beyond publications. Hashtag grow magic is a direct descendant. Of Honey magazine. So we were the inventors and the center and the audience and the creators, and it may for really special moment in time in terms of my personal career trajectory, but also I think. what we were able to put into the culture. Okay so I want to backtrack. So I feel like each chapter of your life is. Its own book is its own Memoir Movie Television Show? Okay, so let's get into the store sears right? Talk about maybe do you remember like your first day or some of the earliest days when you first started there? What was that like? And what was the like music at the time just to SORTA, get give people to soundtrack right so it's early. Ninety s hip hop, coming off of. The public enemies of the world, the native tongues of the world begin to. Take space. There's Queen Latifah as an artist. You know not as the mogul that we know her as today actress There's a lot of consciousness in the music. So you know we're like. The second wave of generation woke. I'd say we begin this obviously before there's that kind of language we are. We have a consciousness. We a lot of US identify with Black Nationalism Oh. I proudly touting my generation because. We were so Navarin so out front. We didn't have a lot of I mean. Yes, we're kind of sandwiched between the civil rights, generation and millennials Yep, but those are vastly different worlds, and just imagined like trying to shape culture from that place. Yeah, you know. Public enemy is being blasted by young white kids all across the country. But the political landscape isn't really reflecting that La is burning. Yes, is nine hundred ninety two west coast hip hop is about fuck the police, right? You know so a lot is happening in terms of the conversation about black lives mattering, but what was lost in those early hip hop conversations was an insistence. That black female lives matter too yeah. So again, though source years created the chops and the need from my perspective to create something because it had no already been done. And then you know again being a black woman, the ways in which culture and society and Professional Life, particularly outside of schools outside, of higher, education force you into. A one trat life, existence, mindset and I and I definitely feel that millennials and Gen Z. had just done a tremendous job it pushing back on that. Idea of a single. Right, but this was very much the landscape, so I think a lot of black women felt that they had to choose who they were publicly. You couldn't have a low natural Caesar like me on Monday on Thursday have a blonde. We've down to you. that. Why not? We didn't feel a lot of flexibility in. How to present, it was almost like. You chose US side, either you were the video, vixen or the girl. You couldn't possibly be the girl who wants to work at the club. You know it wasn't really even though we all were all those things all the time. The presentation of it was very different. They're different, and that's because we're talking about. A predominantly male blackmails cease. Yes, yes, where they were of course mimicking and. Copying a lot of what they learned from dominant male white male. Right so there's this parroting that happens and we again. Black Women caught in the crossfire. You know we're we're there. Because we are hip hop, not just because we like it because we are it. Yes, right? Yeah! We grew up on the streets. We listened to the same music dance in the same clubs. Be Kissed on each other. The boys didn't do it without us right. But the narrative was that it was by them than for them for us. By US mint blackmails when we were talking about examining hip hop, so what we were able to do at honey early was what I see a lot of happening in culture today there's just. PUSHBACK, there's clarity around the fact that our point of view is not only entertaining. Now like come modifiable. It the way forward it is. The Truth and the light it is the laboratory politics for all of us is the way you find direction and leadership like enough with censoring the boys. Wasn't talking like this at all. But. Yes, I was if you feel me I, feel you so for our listeners, who I think is very important, especially for our listeners who aren't black to understand on this is going on a your head, and you're processing all of this and keeping this in mind as you are doing an actual journalism job, absolutely listen. This isn't some theoretical. You know you're a scholar whatnot. You're also writing pieces your Eddie, so let's talk a little. Little bit about the technical sort of roles that you played also at the source, the thing that I that was kind of fascinating. You ask what the source was like. And it was really like that early MTV, real world kind of I, even predating that like we were the black girl from Detroit in the black girl from Brooklyn with the Jewish boys from Harvard with the black kids from Philly with the downtown. Kids from so like. The lower east side we were that it was a live experiment, but the thing that we all had in common was a certain intellectual curiosity. This was the first time that. Any of us have felt our own power in the absence of anything, but our own power as twenty one year old twenty two. Twenty four year olds, so the journalism is being born out of. Creative interesting probing young minds who read a hell of a lot and are starting to notice that every single thing related to hip hop culture is factually incorrect. When we read it in any other publication, they get the shit fall, so that's a big sign that was really instructive in terms of you asked about the early journalism years for myself and I. Think the entire team because none of us had worked any place else professionally as journalists. Some of US have been on our school papers but I don't think any of US had come from. Any journalistic institutions yet I don't know a hundred percent I. Just don't recall that being the case. Yeah, so, but again. You're talking about half of the Staff Being Ivy League educated, so we're not in the other half. Being Hugh educated we, it was probing and like we totally fought about race last engender every single day. Every single day the things that we're talking about now we were talking about the different language, different social circumstances, but for the most part the same things dominated the conversation, but so you asked about the journalism. It starts from me with just the art of the interview and realizing early on that I had. something. I always enjoy people and was always a conversationalist but when charged with asking questions I felt confident in asking questions, other people wouldn't ask. Maybe that was because we have protesting George Bush being our keynote speaker at Hampton University an historic revised. It comes from your whole life like kind of put together, but not unlike yourself, not not unlike I think the best journalists it starts with lake, natural curiosity and and in I as a young black girl from Brooklyn New York. Understood that I was. Disenfranchised and disempowered. By Way of America and I felt very much like. An. The CASSISI journalist. Things that journalists today with runaway from no less to be called, so I'm. I feel. A large part of the reason, some people including myself I'm still struggling navigating that I think that's because a lot of times is the white institutions and journalists say is one hundred percent. You know what I'm saying. They say Oh, be objective, XYZ but y'all not objective. No, no I mean we all understand that. Objective is subjective, right? No. It's one hundred percents of reaction to this idea that somehow the is a lack of professionalism, Tissot, understanding of journalism as an art understanding of truth, telling nonbiased truth, telling like meeting the ability to. And I quote Unquote non-bias, be able to remove oneself. From the story, it still doesn't mean that one isn't advocating I mean historical. White institutions have been advocating for white society since their inception periods what it is and in and by the way it's not a bad word. Yeah, like telling the truth about a particular slice of life is what my career has been that slice of life started as young about young people who were partaking hip hop culture. Most of them were of color. Most of them were poor, so that was a perspective, so if you begin to tell the stories of those people at that time that begins to have an advocacy. Feel. And touch, not even with a consciousness, too it just because this is a lost voice. This is a lowest point of view. It is not in the mainstream. It is not being centered. No one is telling it so the mere act of shedding light journalistically in places where there has been no light before is advocacy. Sorry journalists, sorry, all you impartial, fair and balanced folks. Very, sorry about gay. Yes, okay so. twenty-seven-year-old Cuna. Launch Editor in chief of her own magazine to launch a magazine was not like starting A. Or A blog. Talk about that. What was that like? I imagine especially as a young black woman at that time like where they're haters. Like. How are you feeling? Curl so much was happening at once. I mean one. We had to grow up and become executives who speak. You know now you're pitching advertisers. Now you're in rooms with marketers, and you're thinking about the business of media a lot differently. So you know those early source years. I began to understand the construction of independent publishing. How this thing comes to be certainly became empowered to understand that you could do this. As a young person I, watched this young kid. Do it, so I know as possible, but again when we got to the publishers, the eventual first publishers of honey, they were very disinterested in being partners with us. And they were very clear that if we didn't have a certain amount of capital, they were not going to partner with us, so honey began with Joycelyn and myself on staff as editor in chief and editorial director of the brand. Of course, this is a brand that would have never existed without us and we worked. Twenty hour days I mean it was a very small shop. That existed within this really strange. Publishing world filled with like. Weird older men who had very weird ideas about what black girls weren't weren't and then we had ex xl magazine that was happening down the hall I'm Slam magazine. I was being run by like some white kids, though don't but. So, there's this culture. Stuff is coming out of this very non Black Publishing House very non black publishing. House is the one that's figured out this I on hip hop culture where it lives, it lives in sports. It lives in music lives in the girl stuff, so that's where we were. But we did a lot of. Fighting to. We were underfunded and we were understaffed and we were. Disrespected and we were challenged every single day. We fought every single day. Four honey to be into flourish and to exist, but you can't stop a movement. Right you, can't you know single publisher is going to get in front of black girl magic here in a modern context, and it's coming to fruition, and people are finding community and we're starting to realize. Hey, it's not just me where my hair like that. It's not just me who likes this an that it you know, and so when we identify this, all this community surrounds. It instantly becomes bigger than itself. It instantly becomes even bigger than myself and my partner who founded it I mean that was a lesson so really important lesson that I had to learn. As, not just a journalist, but as a creator that we did what we set out to do, the goal wasn't to create something that would be eternally dependent on us. The goal was to inject something into the culture that was going to be bigger than us, and it took me years to come to terms with that because we left very acrimoniously, and it was sad, and it was really tragic and a lot of ways in terms of what happened to our team in our. Dreams in just like I think about what would have been. If honey. It lasted ten years, and the Internet had happened while you know just a lot of different things. I asked myself about but yarns just twenty twenty, and it was a dope time in a wonderful experiment, and it was carried on by several editors after me never had a publisher that wasn't a male who miss understood at best blaming hated black women at worst yeah. Never had ownership that really loved, US yeah, but everybody wanted to explain and sell us when they all had a vision about what that was supposed to be and really didn't let black women take the lead in the ways that we probably needed to in order for this thing to last forever, so we got what we could out of it and we kept him moving. So what happened though? So before honey becomes honey like it said we were pitching this idea of this hip-hop hop century. Black Women, women of color publication urban was the language at the time. You know we all. We argued about that. We not. Hit, but we understood that. White. Folks needed to hear something bigger than black culture like he was Jesus of. Figuring it out, yeah, creating languages. Languages exactly and so having had all of these doors closed in. Our face was not surprising. I don't think but I think because we were so passionate about it and so naive in terms of believing what was possible like their believe that we could even do this thing. You know podcast. It was exactly that yeah. again back to the whole youth thing why young people will always matter most of all? Yes, because skiing or Dasan yeah, so we got all these door slammed in our face including. I will just say. None of the essence folk interested. I will just say none of the Conde Nast were interested as with an S. on the end. Just tag a publisher. Disinterested right, so we went to the then publishers of vibe. Okay, who were black men? And they kept our business plan for a really long time. And in the N. pass to so that was our last hope before we ended up at Harris Publications. And so by the time we did this deal. Basically giving away our ownership. There were no other options that was the deal. If you wanted to see this thing come to lay, this was going to be the way, but the whole time we will ever going to raise money within a year. When a comeback going to buy this thing, they don't even know what to say is they? Don't even know what the hell this is going to get this. We're GONNA like we were strategizing. Within that time? What happens honey blows? In that year that we're doing our thing and creating these quarterly issues and kind of like piercing the culture at a very high level now all the hot boys be down. What time period is this? This is so late ninety seven is when we are crafting and shopping and making it happen, and dreaming it in pitching it ninety eight is when it goes into production. Can we begin to work on this thing? And then a team gets pulled together through Harris publications and we have to teach them. What does it look like if you are trying to get? Mainstream advertisers to take black girls who listen to hip hop seriously what has to happen in that room. So that's what they're getting from our twenty eight year old twenty-seven-year-old. That's the education that we're giving the white boys who wanNA. Go sell this without as within. find out that they can't rate freight. Yeah, okay, surprise surprise, and as an editor in chief learned very quickly that that whole line between Church and state gets very blurry, not very careful, and if you're not funded, so, who's tergence day in this scenario, church and state would be. And publishing got the money. The business end versus the journalism got you like it. Almost nonexistent today and digital media pretend that exists, but I can spot it from across the street, the piece that came out of the conversation that came out of the pitch that came out of the advertiser. Like, whatever but. because it happens every day all the time, but so we were. Desperate to get this magazine come foolish. We gave away all our rights. And within a year we'd blown magazine up and got a lot of attention around the magazine, including apparently unbeknownst to us, some of those early publishers that we had pitched had gone behind our backs to do a deal with the publishers to buy the magazine. One of those publishers the publisher of I. Did it when we? got a potential. Investor, who was very skeptical about the nature of the existing deal, but was really invested in us, my partner and myself and the team that we developed. They were the ones who found out that the magazine was being sold. We didn't even know wow. We found out that not only was the magazine being sold, but the magazine was being sold to the same people we gave the business plan to that held it the entire time. These boys are still in the culture today. These my peers that are multimillionaires today in the culture, so don't get it twisted. And this is what being a black woman in. Entering the media space from this place is yes very much is not unique to say that a lot of my male peers have been able to translate that particular culture. Very lucrative life twenty five years later. Yeah, whereas those of us who are doing the work. And who were Ashley Interrogating the space who were creating new spaces a lot of us who happen to be women yeah? Many of us didn't have the same fate. Call it what you will. The. And smart of us have been able to navigate. This intersection you know where media meets culture needs brand, and that's been my whole story without even thinking about it, just by default and creating culture as uncovering culture. You know it's a it's a dual identity. And it's unique, so you said you found out that honey was being sold sold right so. We found out that honey was being sold, and it was being sold to the guy that we trusted the most the one that we kind of. Hope imagine that the deal would happen. With initially before we ended up with the publishers, who ultimately did the magazine and it was being sold, and then they basically came back to us once they were in the clear to purchase the magazine and scared are investor away because our was like Whoa, Whoa Whoa I didn't know that thing was up for sale. In that, there's already all this dealing and so like the work that we had done to even conjure up money. Talk with someone who might have to the table to help us by this thing. was completely annihilated almost overnight, and so then I was pissed F F and so then it was on then it was personal, and then it was on, and then it was very acrimonious, said this person essentially sold. Brand honey as the center of his new media company, so he pitched media companies and got millions of dollars as an investment to a new media company predicated on my work. You know so. It really was jarring to understand. How behind the able like here? I am still working for a paycheck yet. Whole ask. Companies are being developed and invested based on my lanes, but when he began raising money for his company, he did. Did it knowing that he was going to have me my partner? Our team never thought once about it that they would be this beef. This break thought that he would just be in this leadership role again and you know having been the man vibe in during the vibe years and years that we would just kind of roll over, but of course we didn't. I'm so. It ended up being A. He gave us a probationary. Deal if you WANNA calm you, you have to work ninety days. You title like something that was like so out of the Blue Asinine that I was like in order for this to not turn violent. Sir, seriously, yeah, I don't even I really don't even want to. It was that bad. Man Oh man. Oh Man, oh, man, oh, man! We were just so angry rate, but the bigger lesson in what I was speaking to earlier was that it was to learn that honey was never about us. Honey was never about us. They were jobs for us. You know and they will great jobs, and it was fun, and it was culture changing, and we did a lot, and we learned a lot, and we met a lot of folks, but honey was to keep creating space for all of us. it needed to happen whatever tragedy we had to go through whatever holiday whatever business pains whatever losses we suffered in their work. It was that it was all. In the name of the greater good, I, can say that now. In hindsight I'm indefinitely. Say That now. Having you just talk about sort of that. The business of your baby honey, right, 'cause that was your child, your creation really quite just for context, because a lot of people, especially a lot of non black non brown people in media. I don't think they understand. Like me personally. I didn't have any like safety net sort of like coming into journalism, and it was never like a lucrative profession or aspiration for me I wasn't like. Oh, I'm about to getting here and make money become editor in chief like I wanted to get in to give a voice to my community and tell the stories that I couldn't read about right, but then nobody tells you like okay. You you probably not about to make a lot. Lot of money like it's going to be difficult to support yourself while you're having to jump through all these hoops as a black journalists as a black woman, journos particularly one in New York City, where the cost of living is just getting crazy, so my gosh you the people a little context about you like. Did you come from a journalism background? What was your socio economic status? Like especially while you're editor in chief you. Ballin like no So where I come from no I don't come from money I would say come from working class means, but a middle class sensibility. My mother was a civil service worker. My entire life and my father was a very small business owner as in he was his sole employee. But. My parents were Paul are proud people and believe in art. And have always been conscious. You know so I definitely had that as a foundation which gave me a certain amount of. Emotional security, if not financial security I definitely respect and here stories of my peers, people, older and younger black people, people of color mostly who are often discouraged from. Opportunities and career paths that people don't imagine as lucrative and that's just a basic kind of. Economic calculation that black parents are making. Because it's hard to be mired in poverty, it's hard to be running in circles. It's hard to live check to check. No one wants that for their now educated child. You know and I. do think that that is something I mean here. We are today talking about black lives, mattering and new audiences. Giving that validity and space to be a truth, a full sentence that black lives actually do matter, but in recognizing that, and and for that to not just be like a wave of platitudes this time. We have to have these basic understandings about how not even the starting line really is so to your point I. Don't think that my generation is much different from. The generation of young struggling. Black and brown writers and artists and journalists of today particularly independent. If you're not what I call funded by an institution, which basically means has job if you are freelance like yourself and brilliant freelance like myself and brilliant, there are no guarantees that absolutely are no safety nets and. You know my twenty five years of culture has certainly I think I have. Created. A means it literally by creating honey specifically and the source for short, but by creating hunting I. think there's a direct path from that work to how the aesthetic of black female identity is sold every day to the tune of billions of dollars looks style, every part of who and what we are. People try to Parse a part in actually purchased for themselves. And but I'm Norwich. So, so there's there's that you know I. I just think that the dedication to the storytelling, the dedication to uplifting humanity by way of. Sharing. Lesser Centered Perspectives is the way that we all Kinda. Give free so if there's any. I mean a super combined media. Even talk like this, but for me, they really I've had to. Allow myself to feel that I am being paid by more than money. That's what I'm trying to send for my validity for my sanity for everything about me to be okay for me with my huge ego. And my intense love of Nice things. To be okay. Yeah is to have to give value to something more. Than transactional cash exchanges for my word, this work for us as black women is more, it just is. Yeah people see the value, but they're able to monetize commodifying it, because just like one of your many iconic Ebony magazine covers said America loves black culture. Black people especially not black woman. Speaking of Ebony. That's where you know that little thing. Can this beautiful relationships? How'd you get to Ebony and when was that? I got a call in. Twenty eleven from the then editor in chief amy two boys Barnett. And she was looking for someone to. Develop and run every DOT com. So I was skeptical because of skeptical of Brand Ebony and I felt that it had not really well I wasn't really keeping up on amy's work once I kind of saw what she was doing. I was like okay. This is definitely actually that's what made me do deal. Like yeah, she was taking this thing in the absolute right direction but for. For many years, Evans had been a non factor and I found that unacceptable as a black journalist and I. Mean you know people take issue with broad statements like Ebony being a non effect like how good the largest magazine speaking to black people in the country be a non factor, but from a personal perspective as a journalist. I've felt that it wasn't. Up to par. And I had watched an entire. Generation of black respectable 's as I call them, ignore and dismiss hip hop culture, and the young people that came with which meant that there was an inherent divide between us. You do not see the world like I. See the world and you're just interested in disruption, and that's what I'm here to do. That's what it means to be. Part of the HIP hop. Generation like that's why y'all invention. We've been doing this. We've been disrupting. But it was just. I don't know coming Ebony I had to do a lot of soul-searching because I had again dig back into my bag of tricks and believe in myself where there was no proof that I was going to necessarily be successful and here I have tried to carve out a personal brand that's rooted if not in magnitude. Inequality in if not in like volume in impact. Crafted that. Own Without a lot of support or institutional help or validation outside of my own very black girl, very hip hop community. You know so coming to Ebony, and like taking a chance of turning something that I had looked at as kind of like what yeah, even though like I, said Amy Truly had begun to turn around. I had to stop paying attention feel, and then you know when I saw what Ebony Dot com looked like and it was like. The first website ever. and. It was really a wall. We have a lot of work to do here. Meanwhile, the hearst publications of the world were already starting entire digital divisions and black publications I. Do we really need a website all right? We'll get the girl who did the other thing and bring your here rain. She can do and so then, but but what happened was that this coincides with? Ferguson this coincides with the inception of black lives matter. This coincides with Trayvon Martin. These are the so my journalists. The Ebony Dot com that. We created wasn't evident dot com that then became the voice of so many people that you read now and listen to now and think of as thought leaders in this entire space and time that. Yes it wasn't the times it wasn't the. Atlantic, it wasn't all these fabulous places. Where some of my favorite writers exists. It was little, old ebony calm, and we were on the ground in Ferguson and we were just doing the work because we were the ones again. The establishment places were scared of the perspective. When you say black lives matter. Exactly how black what lies and how much mattering to you? You know what I mean. We really were ahead of yes. The conversation yet and brave and Ebony leadership I think at that time was shifting and looking for something new. Scared of what we were doing, there was controversy and we made mistakes, and we got hold out in. I grew as a leader and I. Really had to learn a lot and again. This is still an institution so now we're back to being more than just your little. It's not your blog project. It really isn't because it carries a legacy by mind. Yeah, and so this legacy brand. If you WANNA, Reinsert yourself back into a conversation. You got to be prepared for everything that comes with those a crash course in leadership for me, and in navigating very challenging political waters with very young journalist I was about to say. You don't have magazine shops. They don't have print shop. They wear the blogging pioneers to like Jamila and leg I remember. Like Damon correct. Michael Arsenal also Michael Arson. Maxwell. Just. Like the tribe of winners really touched Ebony DOT COM most? Proud of that work, and I feel like that when I look back on my career as a as a journal and sometimes when I'm around journalists working journalists I don't even refer to myself as journalists because I'm deferential enough to know that there are actual Wesley. Lowery's of the world and I don't claim to be that, but I do claim to be someone who has. Sometimes by design, sometimes by circumstance created. Spaces for West lead lowery's of the world period definitely and so the and lay claim to that. So so you're dot com, and then boom transitions editor in chief. So I started off as editorial director of Ebony Dot Com that promoted to vp of digital. Okay, and then there was a change in editorship on the print side, and there was a gaping hole, and everybody was like grow. You know this is your time. And again for years I tried to be the editor in chief of essence, and that fell through a few years before and I was like number two in the running. Running so all these years of getting close getting close in knowing that that kind of visionary leadership is my calling creating the space like being right there at the right time, and also be a maverick in the perspective breaking the rules of magazine Journalism Breaking all the rules I knowing them I. Knowing not just a break them not just for the sake of breaking them, but because they demand, they're calling to be broken. I, you have to know him. Master them in understanding like that's a whole nother piece, which was a challenge in editing, my first real wave of Digital Writers who had not had any real rigorous. They had not done any long form. They had not gone through any research process, so there was a of like opinion. Yeah, without a lot of the rigor, and so I was trying to find a way to help elevate. Dot Com in that respect and still allow the space for the less season person to. Say like it is because you can see something you see things in people. I can tell that. Like you see things in individuals and it's interesting because the conversation in more recent years in journalism, especially at like. White staffed publications has been like How do we get diversity like find these people and you know you have young black journalists such myself at the time in my peers, where applying for these positions at these different publications, whether it's a historically black publication, or whether it's the time they Atlantic. In our resume, says one thing in our clip says one thing, but. oftentimes, we hear like that. We're not at that level yet or like you were saying we're not season. or we don't have enough experience, but it's like. I found that it requires. People, like you, who can see the potential and are willing to invest the time and effort to train? Yes, it does you're right. It does, and that's why we can only hope that. newsrooms across the board. Multimedia newsrooms are filled with people who understand intangibles. Because if you're just looking for accredited schools and like. Pedigree! Yeah, you know if if that's all that resonates with you. You'RE GONNA. Miss out on some amazing minds. So, yes, you do think it's a skill that you know. Certainly I'm not the only person with it, but it's sorely missing from a lot of. Mainstream places and you can tell because you can tell who's not there. You can tell how many people of color they don't have that. You clearly engaging with on twitter like your life, all of brilliance. What do you want comedy purity? Want academic. What do what do you want? Right, What do you want? You got it comedy criticism, right because like whatever you're looking for. It really exists and yes, in today's world, that talent is probably going to come with a need for a certain amount of development, which isn't to say that it isn't worth the investment period. Yeah, you know you. There's some things. Can't be taught, right? There is such thing as being a naturally good writer. That goes a really long way But if you're a naturally good. Songwriter you might be a great storyteller who knows I'm interested in the conversation, and if you're writing enough in social spaces that is attracting audiences Azure, making some damn sense. Please come talk to me. Yeah, what's your take on? X. Yeah, we need more of that in newsrooms where people can take chances on folks that don't have journalism degrees, per se, or didn't come out of X. Y. and Z establishment press. Yeah, because I mean you know. Things are changing, but they have to change faster, and we need a new cadre of intellectuals who are willing to. deconstruct intellectual norms like things that we hold true in our minds about society as journalists you know, and now I'm speaking to a broad audience and I'm speaking to to non black journalists especially. Okay and so. Boom. The gap was there. It was your time you stepped into it. Editor in chief of the legacy that is Ebony magazine. Please go from there because I. that's one of the reasons that I was like we gotTa Talk to cure. Fumble talk to anybody for long form. I gotTa Talk to Canada because. You've been at the highs the lows every iteration whether it's from a black perspective, black woman's perspective pop culture Politics News Dot com print like everything, so let's talk about, but I bet when you pitched me. They know! Mrs. You Bet when you pitch me what? That all the things that you knew about me. No one else knew You know and how many white journalists were paying attention to what was happening on Avenue Dot Com for those five years. How many people like the unbelievable amount of reporting and opinion writing coming out of a new generation of thinkers that would then grow to become an entire movement, the first to cover black lives matter the first. You know really the at the intersection, the internal debates about the formation. That's how on the ground we were. How much space we may, and by the way, these are also characters that you find now coming in the office. People are here because we are gathering spot. You become so much more. Just media outlet. You know we're a safe space even in authority like back like that's what it looks like. When something in culture has your back? That's Ebony Dot Com in those years. That's what that looked line. Yeah, but also was true to the art of. Accurate, storytelling and challenging systems through the word. Yes, we did a lot of kick ass. Stuff is years, and so then I become the editor in chief. Yes, because we the editors left, they needed. Someone made sense for me. It seemed like it was my time like I said. But what I had already come to understand was that the limitations of black media are real the advertiser resistance at least when you're using an advertising model purely like we were at that time. Israel is the same thing that it's like PTSD like it was the same thing that happened on. Source when I, look back at all of my life in these black magazine media space. We were always no matter how good you were. Yeah, proving yourself. Yeah, gaining sponsorship consistently was just tough. Yeah and. I was aging in my career and growing in my career also and just really feeling. The ceiling for one. Going to print in what year was that? Twenty fifteen year. Yeah felt regressive. My career survive because I know how to morph are under my eyes on the tomorrow. Not yesterday so. BEEN VP of digital. And then going back to. Dayton seem like a smart career moon. Yeah, even though it had always been my deepest dream to be the editor in chief of print publication, it didn't seem smart. And what I had come to understand about the inter workings of the avenues of the world, wasn't that sexy and exciting, so it was like. Do I do I? Do you know so? I finally did it, and we were broke and strapped and challenged, and being challenged internally, and we challenge externally, and a lot of the genius just came out of necessity. say that to say some of our standout covers the one that you referenced and also the cover that got me my first. Talking heads yes. Yes are more. infamous. Cosby cover we are. We had a image of the cosby show, a press shot of the cosby show in their early years under laid by what looked like broken glass, and the the point of the break begins right over bill's face, and so there's all of this layered metaphor visually and our quote family issue, because it was thanksgiving, and so when you're in magazine Media You understand those holiday months to be very specific. When you're in a lifestyle book, you do a lot of plays toward advertisers that are interested in promoting family related things, so we turn that thing on its head. And and that's what we did, but that cover costs us like. Zero dollars. Forty two cents with the exception of pain for the creative direction. But the image itself. The Free So. We figured out. HOW BE INVENTIVE! To also break away from black celebrity. deejays and elevate black news like black life is happening. Things are happening in black America that the whole country. Talking about and we're just GONNA put your favorite celebrity on a cover. That's just our jaw yet. So we were, we were interrogating all of that along the way, so it just worked out for us. That black celebrities had really turned away from black press. Getting. Lean! Please please please well. I don't want I to be friends with all these girls. But all your fees every single one of the land. Okay, the okay. Yes and the main to. And and and I think that goes into that decision, so I do not stand in judgment I will just stated as a statement of fact, you know now that L. has discovered black people invoke has discovery black people in Vanity? Fair has discovery black people and time has discovery black people? Black magazines and black publications are fighting everyone. And so you end up with pressure of the cosby show. Yeah, and then you win. Almost accidentally, but also because you're don't. Because again that goes back to us as a people like making something out of saying yes, yes. Journalistic! Ingenuity Media Ingenuity. which is what an entire generation of bloggers have been? You guys, are you? That's what you were when you walked into the office. Ebony like it's all that yeah, but it's also it's so. Wonderful, and there's so much lost there and this why I'm really happy to have. An opportunity to talk to this audience in particular people who take journalism seriously and just really to honor and celebrate your work, the continuum and how things have been elevated, and you are given opportunities now to be edited by tremendous editors in tremendous places, and we should all be granted those opportunities, but when they're not there yet. I want this audience to understand what you're missing It's huge. It's huge and so any institutional journalistic home that wants to be a part of the future and wants to be on the right side of history beyond platitudes beyond marching this week now all had a wakeup call. It's about recognizing that. Some of US calm by way of different pathways, no less valuable and known less worthy of exploring for how they can help instruct the future of your brand of your magazine of your media outlet. And what do you say to the people listening who are like well? We don't have the budget or we don't have X. Y. and Z. to sort of get these people in the door like you're saying. Well, is that the truth I? Mean I guess that's my first question is. Are we starting from a truthful place because we really have to examine the question of will today like really what we're talking about right now? When you see the entire country locking arms, and saying we agree black lives do matter the way we will measure whether or not we are actually all in agreement will be what we had the will to confront and change right so your budget is also tied to your will. What matters? What are you investing in? What can you find some extra dollars for versus what you can't? But the other thing I'm talking now more about well established places that on granite, all media is figuring it and just from a business perspective. It's a hell of a game to be in right now. I, don't envy any publisher anywhere unless your facebook. Actually the only publisher yeah but. If you have the ability to bring in new voices if you are a place that knows that you can. Rob a little from Peter to pay Paul. Eight incumbent. Upon you? To think differently to challenge. The ways in which you recruited in the past to challenge that which you deemed credible, a worthy of giving an opportunity just to do you know much I've learnt. Do you know how much didn't ever make it to page a digital page or print page? That was just conversations that I had with smart thinkers. Yeah, young writers, people who maybe weren't par, but did plant a seed that gave me an idea for a package down the road or someone who you do need to watch develop, but it's worth keeping a relationship with because later on. They're going to be writing for the New York Times and blowing up and people that run hot podcasts. Ask them to do like those things. That's real that's real. Yeah, that's real, so you know. I think in this new a since. We're all brand new and we're all. We're all black lives matter. that. We all should do the work of challenging. How we got here? How do we get a place? Where so few of US are in newsrooms? How do we get to a place? Where black voices are still established? Black Journalists Pulitzer Prize winning journalist are still complaining about racism in the newsroom. How are we here, folks? Let's all be in that conversation. Yeah, and if you only WanNa have that conversation with your eighty list journalists come on, you're going to miss out once a gain on a lot of like remarkable thought in perspective and people who are willing to go deep and go places that you'd never imagine. Yeah I. Just believe that. You've seen it first hand, so you know. Yeah. You got your start at the source right I. Really WanNa. Know your opinions or thoughts right now. On the music hip hop music landscape right now in terms of the publication so like we have I consider a complex fater paper right All three of those were print brands figured out their digital play. Okay, led by White Boys, yes, what? What are your thoughts on that because? To me. It seems like the national or even international conversation around hip hop in black culture from a music perspective is owned by led by white men in white teams predominantly white teams. Yes, I mean. The began to remind generation. You know that's what we were pushing back against, but because I'm divested as so I don I feel like a fake like I'm a fraud. I can't really talk hip-hop like. Sometimes when a pretend that I can, but I can't. Really you know I. Have Three Teenage Sons meaning that I'm not like you. You have to respect the cultures of evolving, so it's not enough to have known artists. Twenty years ago is not enough to have like if you're not really paying close attention. I pay attention now because I have like proximity to my kids conversation. Yeah, yeah, so I'm just Kinda. PEOP- in what they care about in what they talk about who they listen to, and it seems just as saddled with all the light messy nece. It's always been so with. Yeah, yeah, except now I think the capitalist peace is through the roof. Yes, we were all rooting day where a Jay Z. was a billionaire now. Every other kid is a half billion area, so that's a different paradigm. But the idea that young white men in particular have centered themselves doesn't surprise me and. People become experts on all sorts of black cultural expressions very quickly and suddenly you have no space in the conversation now. I don't know that again I'm. I'm kind of repeating what you're telling me. Case Yeah. I've felt that train here. Is Seen, the complex and listen. These guys do good work. Let's also say some of what they do is good. Okay, but the fact that they are dominant voices when there's all these other people making the culture and partaking in it, and there's no way in. It just feels to me like a scary recreation of the old way. Yeah, it's scary to me, too. That's a perfect word and I I don't know if people outside of our community or people who aren't super young and don't really see the exploitation that's happening is it's just really scary to me? Yeah, in the definitely. Kids don't have the same. Level of consciousness or even perspective right because when I talked to. My peers is like I like I said I'm thirty two I was coming of age during the new millennium, so I saw like the the mid to late nineties. I saw when we were like peak sorta black mainstream culture. I didn't realize that although like UPN and the black, TV and movies and music in the neo. Neo Soul and hip hop, and all that like. I didn't realize that was going to be taken away. I didn't realize that wasn't the way things were always going to be right. You know whereas now there's a lot more I don't know the word I WANNA say appropriation right, and so I think a lot of younger people today. They don't really understand how much has been taken from. Community and how much it's being sort of regurgitated back towards them. Yes, know what I'm saying exactly and they understand the power. They have in that. Right and they don't and they. How could they? How could they? They really have entered the conversation at a whole `nother point like my kids don't remember a time before a black president. That's just to put it in perspective. You know so things really have transformed and they like getting your first million isn't a headline. Like there's a different kind of of conversation and the things that have been commodified kind of completely consumed absorbed stolen larger culture, and then spit back out at you. It's like. More of your culture then not is then. Really just trying to articulate this the other day because it's dawning on him little by little. Man We even when he hears music, the idea that music could have a history beyond the song. You know more beyond the cheesy commercial. That's using the Jackson Five's ABC to sell Trilogy Yeah You know what I mean like you. When you finally realize that there was a song that existed, you're like oh! So so. Careful not to be your finger, WAG right. Generation is Kinda faced with its own hurdles amount and is for young people to wake up around this fat. You're you're totally. Your culture is totally being boy, and so back to you. You know what I mean like. You're not laying claim to anything, and if what I'm hearing about, who's even covering? Who's those stories? Isn't even you, but I'll say. My kids have a completely different relationship to the idea of hip hop culture. Yeah, like we created hip hop culture as Resistance right hip hop culture for them is the north. That may be the thing. Push back against. Wow, that's the word I love it. Okay, so what's going on with you now? So okay so right after Ebony? I joined I one digital. I had a two year run there. It was exciting not as fruitful as I'd imagine, but we do create this really cool site called caches life dot com on apologetic, and it was more of the same like finding those same young people in. In a petri dish, and saying your goal makes up and led by mostly black women, and absolutely by mostly black. And Queer brothers and sisters, just being super duper progressive, intentionally progressive intentionally like on the right side of the matter, and the walkie woke just having fun, and like unpacking culture and news. It wasn't a journalistic. Dive but it was I think an important continuation like I said of the work, and it's still around, and it fills an important space because it, it allows for the fact that all young people aren't. Being flighty and lights about life about the world around them, there is introspection, and there is examination, and there are questions so the other group of people who don't want to be lulled to sleep and that's what caches was about in. Iran all these other sites when I was over there? Too so again? My executive chops kind of. Meeting all my other stuff, I've just not had a a neat kind of career. It's always been experimental. By design. I'm Jay yes. Improv. So what am I doing now? Still improving? Yes, so I am the show runner and head writer for a new life production that happened the inaugural happened just before we were shutdown, corona and it's the Lena Horne Prize for artists creating social impact. The work that we do there is basically to. Recognize. People in culture who have taken their art and exploited their art as A PLATFORM FOR Change. In this first year we honored salons novels. And she was just oh, so spectacular, the producers and creators were are the same folks who do the Mark Twain Prize. Hey, so it's very much in that ilk. A single person is faded, celebrated is lifted up his or her work is examining peers common celebrate, but in this case because it's not about comedy, but it is about social impact. We wanted to explore like to know salon is to know. Her, reverend appreciation for. Black artist, black art, and the black artist experienced the artist's way. There's a famous book the art it's where salons kind of embodies the black artists way. And people wanted to celebrate her. Let me tell you. Like if you could hear comments words you if you could hear and then so yes, we we just tried to. Hire as many talented. People from all walks of life to bring this expression together on a level that really know award show has ever been. This is the first time that a major award is being named after a black woman in this country. MM-HMM, so it's again another I so I'm excited about Ambien show run alive. Production showrunner is more than an ocean, okay. More than a notion, it's more than just bringing your executive head more than just bringing journalists at. Now marrying all my other stuff. Yeah, so I'm just excited in seeing relief takes me on working on my my personal writing fiction writing. My screen plays and I'm in conversations about a lot of. Really exciting stuff in I'm trying to make carbon new path for myself. I don't want to just be like that person in the room talking about the brilliance of young people because. People who are no longer defined as young per. Se Don't have talent. and. Thanks to share absolutely the opposite especially when you're talking about black women being go to our graves, not having told it all set it all. You know what I mean like. There's always more, but I do want to be someone who's not afraid to reinvent and I do think that is the purview of young people and borrow that. Gleefully, you know, and and right now I'm in my reinvention season a you know I'd like to come across a big lump of cash while Matt It. But I'm going to earn it, and I want to change the world while doing it. So that's me. That's where I am I. Am you put? All my black lives matter. You just pour so much into me and Sean. Thank you. You're welcome. Thank you to on a thank you for just existing. And being just reading your piece the other day I just it just brought tears to my eyes that you have this perspective in that you. You're making it. You're doing baby. You're doing it. This is what it looks like. This is what it looks like, so don't stop. Don't ever stop. Okay well. I love you and everybody follow here now. Just stay tuned right because as you can tell from this conversation. She's going to do even more amazing. Things that we can't even comprehend because she got the vision okay, so. Thank you for trees. I appreciate the opportunity I really do. Thank, you for listening to long form I'm patrice pack and the show is co hosted by Aaron Lamour Max. Linski and Evan ratliff John Piper is the editor. Thank you thank you. Thank you to Karen a male for coming on the show this week and spreading and sharing your brilliant genius with us all. My twitter and instagram are at speak Patrice and you can find out more about my writing and my newsletter. Corona Virus News for Black folks at Patrice Peck Dot Com. The show will be back next week.
How Restricting Skilled Immigration Could Spur Offshoring
"This podcast is brought to you by knowledge awarding welcome back to the Knowledge Morton podcast. I'm Rachel KIPP associate editorial director of the knowledge at Wharton website. We're here today with Warrenton. Management Professor Britta Glennon her new paper looks at how restrictions on high skilled immigration effect offshoring Britta. Thanks for being here happy to be here so the paper focuses on an often overlooked aspect of the debate about highschool immigration. Can you explain that a little bit sure uh so usually when we talk about skilled immigration in the media or even in the broader academic literature people tend to focus on what's the impact on you know the wages are the jobs of American workers and they also tend to focus on innovation outcomes of firms right and so that's usually how the debate is framed does skilled immigration take American jobs or does it improve innovation and and so what I look at my paper is that there's this kind of unforeseen additional consequence that has been completely left out of the debate which is that. US multinational firms actually have this alternative choice which is that if they can't get the skilled emigrants that they won in the US they can just hire hire them abroad instead of one of their foreign affiliates and so what this means is that actually proponents of restricting skilled immigration who are worried worried about saving American jobs if it's true that instead they're just GonNa hire them elsewhere than those restrictive policies can just backfire so how did you test this this so I basically exploited a policy change in two thousand and four that heavily restricted eight hundred. BB's US and I looked at basically what happened before and after that change what I saw was that there was this huge growth in foreign affiliate employment appointment after that policy occurred so in other words once US firms felt really constrained in terms of how many skilled immigrants they could hire as soon as they felt that constraint they then started rapidly increasing their employment of their foreign affiliates in response odds so they weren't going back and hiring more people who are only lived here instead they were actually looking at locations offsite and hiring people bear exactly now is that foreign offices says of the firm or was it people like other companies that they had a partnership with or both so I am able to look at foreign affiliates of the company however there's there's a lot of ingles that I am not able to explore that. I'd like to explore in future work. One of those could actually be partnerships rate so perhaps rather than hiring more people at their Ford affiliate they could instead contract out to a foreign for right and what were some of the particular with their particularly types of companies. They were more likely to do this like particular types of multinationals particular industries or was it across the board yeah so I mean you do see average effects overall but you see the strongest effects and kind of these are Indian pensive software. It firms in particularly in areas where you actually could offshore the services rates not all services can be off shored so those are the firms that you see the most strongly and and when they were doing this increase in foreign hiring hiring overseas were there particular countries that saw the biggest increase or again was at across the board. Yes so the three countries that you see the biggest increase in Canada India and China another's likely cleo different mechanism happening there so for example with India and China. That's where the bulk of H. One B. Visas go to and so you can view it as they're just going straight toward the talent is right so they're just opening before an affiliate in China or India hiring local talent there in Canada however it's a little bit of a different story which is that it could be actually the exact same worker perhaps in Indian or Chinese worker who is denied in H. One B. Visa in the US and they could just hire them instead and Canada because Canada has much less restrictive immigration policies. Now you results show that not only did this decrease in H. One B. Visas increase offshoring it also had some significant impacts impacts on innovation. So can you talk about those a little bit yeah so I found that so I think a lot of times when people think about visas. They're worried that it's they're not actually actually high-skilled workers rights at the people doing kind of like low level. I mean maybe it software but it's not very innovative software. It's like back in software and so one of the things I wanted to test was where the jobs that were moving abroad in kind of innovative areas where you would actually be really concerned what about that job going abroad instead so if you're really interested in like the spillover effects they come from innovative work happening in the US. I'm if that's happening. Abroad instead instead that has serious policy implications. I'm in so what I found was. Actually there was an increase in foreign affiliate patenting in response to restrictions on skilled guilt immigration as well and so that tends to indicate that it wasn't just kind of these low level jobs moving abroad it actually was these skilled innovative types of the jobs that were going abroad and one thing you mentioned the paper is that it's not even that if the H. One B. if these workers are never able to move here that then the innovation is happening wherever they do end up that you find out that it might actually not be happening at all. That's also a possibility yes so I I haven't been able to show that part definitively tentatively yet but it's it's very possible that some firms want they're not able to do it in the US just kind of give up on that activity and ship to something nothing else so this I mean I know you said you you looked at a policy change from two thousand and four but this is obviously still a huge part of the immigration debate. What would you say are the key implications he's here both for companies but also for policymakers as I mean especially as the twenty twenty election heats up and people continue to talk about this yeah so I think number one skilled old immigration restrictions may not actually give more jobs to American workers and in fact it may accelerate firms moving abroad awed an often the same people who are critics of immigration also critics of offshoring manufacturing and so in fact? They're actually actually causing the very thing that they're worried about so I think just policy wise skilled immigrants are a good thing and if you're gonNA try and restrict them there can be some unforeseen consequences. I'm instead they should be aware of those unforeseen consequences making policies and for businesses as you know. I just think that it's an example of how firms can get around artificial constraints right there firms are really creative active in the way that they can rearrange their their operations and get around these constraints and so this is one example of that and I I suspect based on also interviews with firms that even firms who may be having offshore yet are now considering doing so as H. One B. Policies he's got more and more restrictive and under the current administration they have gotten much more restrictive and what's next for this research so I'd I'd really like to explore some of the other strategies that firms use in response to skilled immigration restrictions so this is sort of one of many possible possible responses. I mean so for example domestic firms don't have this option right and so