20 Episode results for "Edel"

EP 80: The Astrology of Healing Your Love Wounds

The Insightful Astrology Podcast with Maria DeSimone

53:31 min | 6 months ago

EP 80: The Astrology of Healing Your Love Wounds

"This is contact talk radio DOT com consciousness in action and you are taking action into your consciousness by tuning into contact contact. Talk Radio Dot com off contact talk radio Welcome to the inciteful astrology. podcast where life is written in the stars. But you get to edit the script making us Raji compromised. Here's your host Maria desimone. Hello everybody welcome to the insightful astrology. Podcast it is me your host Maria de Simone and Oh my God welcome back. It's been a minute actually. It's been like ten months. I had a baby in the time that I have been on this podcast last and yes I have a whole story for you catch hat shop and all of that but I am going to bring on a an old favourite guest so that we can have a really lively catch-up conversation for for those of you who have been listeners to the podcast for the couple years that it was on you may know that my cousin Joe Pereda is an acclaimed psychic medium and you may know that this show is more than just astrology. I love talking about everything. Metaphysical and I love bringing the astrologists life and some guests. We have such a connection and a great banner and cousin. Joe is one of them so I am very very excited to welcome cousin. Joe Pereda back on the show for the relaunch. Hello Hello Joe. Welcome back all right. Thanks for having me back. I'm very excited. You're doing this again. Means to Yeah well this is back actually by popular demand. I was one of them couch. I okay so before I get into my whole friggin story and your story. Tell people like your two minute who you are where it can find you what you do all that jazz. So I am Joe. Pereda I live in Manhattan medium That's why I work out of work out of my apartment on in the In Midtown East You can find me my website which is just Joe PARETO DOT COM or medium Dot Com my last name is P. E. R. ARE ETA. You could just gloomy. I'll come up I've worked with a Gupta worked with forever family. I actually did some really cool research stuff which actually isn't published. It really not supposed to talk too much about it but we'll get back to that later this year old. Be Back on your podcast to talk about it. I'm sure You have if I me On facebook too. You can follow me Instagram if you want although my instrument does not really Like a work instagram. It's more just like me out what I ate and when I'm drinking whatever stupid shit. I'm doing more interesting anyway. I mean I've posted on instagram and everybody likes to eat consensus. I'm on Instagram Just joke writer but I'm on facebook too and that's really where postwar my Psychic medium stuff events. I'm doing things like that. Awesome uh-huh okay guys. Check him out. He's so talented. And although today for our first podcast back we're not doing well. Caller readings Joe says he would like to come back. Maybe once a month then we will be doing that in the future for sure. Oh yeah definitely we gotta get back on that reading game yes we will but today there's just so much to talk about and catch up on on the. I needed this to be just a conversation show and I also I mean of course. There's the astrology we are. We are relaunching. The show on September Jesus February seventh seventh and so a little bit later today. Venus the planets of love money self worth harmony is moving into areas and you and I both have innocent areas Nataly. We don't Joe we do. Well we've gotTA talk about some strategy and some Chiron Venus Shits as well as the full moon. Leo which is coming up on the ninth. So now I know you don't know too much about Kyron and Joe and and to be honest up until I would say a year and a half ish ago oh I was not a big fan of Chiron. Just didn't include it too much not that I not that I was anti Kyron. I just didn't talk about it. A lot didn't study it too much. That's the reason I don't know about it because you didn't really never taught me come all right. Well well I'm about to school. Yeah because I am. I am officially a Chiron Fan officially and what of course for me you know the airy stuff I have areas rising have Venus and areas a until it becomes relevant to me. I just don't give a shit just like that's that's typical for energy areas babysitter. Exactly so with Kyron. I needed it to smack me in the face for me to really realize how important it is and Cairo. Kyron is an asteroid that has an orbit between Saturn Uranus in the sky and Kyron is known symbolically as the wounded healer and natal birth chart you will all have a Chiron placements and wherever ever Chiron is placed by house and sign will talk about your core psychic wounds for this lifetime and it is said that it's a place that's never truly truly healed but that when we use our Chiron to try to heal others we actually heal ourselves so that's my understanding of Chiron very minimally and of course I actually do have car on and aries. It's conjuncture my aries ascendant. So I have three Chiron placements But Chiron became very interesting into me about last April. I would say well exactly when I went on hiatus for this podcast I it was a little bit before. Then but as some of you know if you've been listening to the show long enough I I bought a house in March and I put the podcast on hiatus April thirtieth because I had to renovate move and adjust to my new life and then I went undercover and the podcast. I went in a little bit of a different direction. The podcast was on hiatus for a lot longer than I expected. And I was okay with it. Because has my life became much more private. You all know I have a big mouth and I talk about everything. Joe Is the same way right Joe Pretty much yes so we we talk. It's like you just can't help help it when we're supposed to do and I've got moon me and you and I think that's the thing with us the gem I in the Saj repaying off of each other and I. It's it's like I forget that all these other people are listening and I was like I'm talking to you on the couch and I get like that with more people than than I would like to admit they moved and I had this whole new brand new life and I said you know what I just want to kind of keep it to myself and and so my Chiron. Venus story began in April Ish when transiting Chiron in the sky mooted to Aires and actually started to make a conjunction with my Nadel Edel Venus and in aries in the Twelfth House. And stay with me guys. 'cause this is not just about me this is going to be relevant for all of you because this is a transit. That's is happening right now. In the sky that's coinciding with our full moon in Heart Centered Leo. So I promise you this is not just about my. Venus is not just about Josie and this this is about Everybody collectively as well but in particular if you have Venus in aries car on will hit your needle Venus at some point between now and April of twenty twenty seven so it's going to be a bigger lesson for you so now Joe. What do you think would happen when the wounded healer comes to make a conjunction with the planet Venus? What do you think could be healed? I mean I would assume it's either issues around women or relationship issues relating to other people very you know Venus Venus type subjects I would assume and you assume correctly because Venus Kim Jong Kyron is an opportunity to heal our heart heal our venus wounds relationships personal values. What is important to you money all Venus matters but how does Chiron accomplish this? It's it's different from Pluto although it could sometimes feel a little similar but Chiron on the symbol of Chiron. It's a it's a key. If you've ever seen it in so Kyron it unlocks when it makes this connection into another planet. It's going to unlock the secrets. It's going to reveal something that was overlooked and misunderstood so it's not the same as Pluto. Emplo hit your Venus. You know something dies and is pulled ripped apart from you and it's brutal and it's very plutonium but when Kyron it will hit. Venus information is is coming to light. That you really didn't know about consciously and it helps you heal the wounds and so- Chiron has three functions in astrology. It makes us aware of what hurts. It's going to bring your pain to the surface. That's the wounded healer face. Okay so the second thing Chiron on does Joe and everybody else is that it will heal the wound and this happens only when we become aware of the wounds in so if it remains unconscious the healing doesn't happen and we just perpetuate that wound story in our life but third once Chiron does this and we work with our Chiron on it will transform that wounded to a gift and once the wound is healed acknowledged it can finally reveal the gifts and there is a a level of maturity and greater stability once. Chiron works with the planet and brings all that alive and so now in the sky this is fascinating. Kyron is in areas you know. It's an areas and Venus like I said later today is about to move into aries and sure enough to I think it's tomorrow February. Eighth Chiron and Venus will make an exact conjunction at two degrees aries so collectively elite. Joe What do you think that could mean for. I haven't seen it the way it sounds Is that eventually. It will be positive but it sounds like we're headed for like a relationships shit show across the board. If you ask me or like with money I'm very I'm I'm a little pessimistic about this. Well you know you are very psychic and you don't know my three Venus Chiron store. Oh I don't know anything about it now. This this guy had I'm I'm just want everyone to know that being a little pessimistic about it because I'm sitting here as you're talking looking at my chart and I'm realizing that Chiron is gonNA conjuncture my son and my Venus which are like pretty much next to each other. My Chart Eleventh House like a few years after Pluto squares both of them. So I'm like great like my father and my grandmother are going to die and they don't going to heal the wounds and then like have this amazing transformative experience. So I'm like it's the head space but to be honest with view I am feeling like psychically for everyone you know wants to know what mode I'm thinking and feeling I should say this Chiron Venus Injunction the sky right now does feel like it's going to get worse before it gets better my feeling about it and and and I agree with you because Venus Cajon John Kyron is exposing that wound. And it's asking us. Are you brave enough to choose love over fear. Are you brave enough to really see the wounds of a of of the for all of you in your life. Look to see where two degrees of aries is in your birth chart. Okay 'cause this is where the transiting Venus Chiron conjunction is happening and it's going to be amplified amplified by our full moon in Leo which was happening on the night because up hearts and this is a positive full moon overall but emotions oceans are heightened and everything connected to the heart and chew our ability to love is is illuminated and there is always a a change that has to happen at a full moon. Full Moon is either an ending and awareness or you have to pivot you become aware of something and it forces you to make could change. This is full moon energy and it's happening while Venus is junk Chiron and aries. So I agree with you Joe. Now this and so this is bringing me to my little story about The where I've been what's been going on in my life for the past ten months and I actually didn't even realize that it would connect next to Venus Kyron so much until today. It's so appropriate. Everything happens worries and so the My Venus's in the Twelfth House Venus the twelve houses says everything that's hidden guys and Venus in aries although it's very passionate and direct and bold and brave you throw her in the Twelfth House and then she's kind of drowning a little she's underwater and it does make for some more difficult experiences in Venus ruled matters because it becomes a blind spot. Offer you any planet that's in. Your House is a blind spot that you have to really work hard at uncovering and consciously working with and so I I moved moved. I had a very big move. After twenty two years of living in Queens New York I moved to Suffolk County which is about an hour away on Long Island and when I moved moved I was just getting over one heartbreak situation because I actually moved to the location that I live. Now I want to say seventy percent because of a man and I know that's really. I'm a little ashamed to admit that the beach guy that I had a fling with for a couple blay years. He lives in this area and somehow managed to get me to to move year. I had a move anyway but to I wasn't planning on buying a house here specifically and then then I moved to. I did fall in love with my house. I found the perfect house. Everything was great. I made a conscious decision to say goodbye to the person and honestly I'm totally healed from him. It's all good. I recognize it now. As arsenal contract was you were meant to get me to this home and to my new life. Thank you for that and so for that. I am grateful but I made the decision when Heireann I made that conjunction to my nail Venus Gel to saying you say goodbye to let him go to release that right and literally a month later and I always said this. You know that you know I. It's hard for me to meet anybody. I have a connection to and for a guy to. He's literally going to have to just just you know wearing my front front door belt because that's just you know I. It's hard for me. So of course what happened. The end of May this guy rings my doorbell literal nobod- like literally literally. This isn't a joke. This isn't a metaphor. He rang the doorbell happen to anybody. You know how many people have read. And they're like well. I want to meet someone but I don't go out and I'm like well you know he's not GonNa just ring the doorbell. It's not gonna be the mailman literally wrangled oval cut that out there for everybody. It was literal now. I don't WANNA reveal anything. Anything too personal about him because he is still in my life and I want to be very respectful and careful but I will say he lives close to me. He rang my doorbell. We had an instant connection connection and since the end of May we have been very heavily involved but he just got divorced and was finishing divorce when I met him and his younger than me. And he's he's he was honest about not being in a place to be able to be in a committed relationship right now because he's been going through his stuff and he has a urine horrendous Venus Square happening by transit. And if you know anything about astrology urine this is not about commitment. It's about liberation. It's about breaking things up when it's at heart aspect to your NATO Venus and he's he's finishing that transit up so that translates finishing for him right now but it began when we met he suddenly met stranger urine US rules astrology and we had a a massive amazing Situation Situation Ship. They call them now right. So that's a new one for me I was. You never heard situation so. I'm a little behind the Times though. Apparently this is all the rage on youtube videos. Now when you watch like the tower thirty but he might as well be like ninety. Because I don't know anything well I mean I mean I'm feeling younger. Maybe it's because I was younger guy I don't know but anyway this situation ship because I can't say it's a commitment. There is no commitment with your Venus. When isn't hard aspect and so when Kyron Venus's hitting your twelve thousand CENA's but anyway they're always there is love there is definitely love and so what how how what happened was chirons hitting my Venus and I had another Venus related issue happen over since I entered the podcast and that is Joe. Is You know I went into a secret business with somebody at a lot of opinions about at this. I know I know a good thing I think it was generally gassing Yes and so Again I I will never say anything negative about out anybody because we are all here to learn lessons and have experiences but this was a dream of mine since two thousand eleven when I first got divorced I I always wanted to launch an astrology perfume. Line that was curated and really Developed based on the astrology of attraction which I very much believe can be bottled and sold and so I met someone in May exactly what I met the guy that rang my doorbell really funny and and she woman Venus she is a perfumer twelve house. This is twelfth. How stuff neptune rules perfumes okay? So Venus's beauty and women and and so we talked and it's and we literally had similar ideas about this it was it felt like it was just meant to be and I felt like wow this must be the time to do this and go in this direction and so she and I suddenly started this new entrepreneurial effort aries okay. Okay see this astrology. You just can't make the shit up and so we agreed to a certain way of doing this business and we do we. We really worked together for a while. I have to say she's very talented. We developed five perfumes and you smelled a few of them right show we were. I think I really liked Pisces. Yeah Yeah you actually could be a bestseller so You know it was wonderful and an experience and I invested invested a significant amount of money while she invested a significant amount of her time and talent and so unfortunately Venus Chiron manifested with. This story is well because all of this happened in the past six days of my life by the way which Joe doesn't know this yet so that partnership dissolved and the whole bit. It just went south okay so now while I still have my dream of developing my astrology perfume line. It's not going to be with her. Unfortunately and so by the way if any perfume makers is out there listening to this shimmy an email. Let's talk damn side dams. Yeah because I I do believe this is a dream of mine and I do believe at some point it will happen but it it was. I was meant to really learn something here so I lost money Venus. Okay and I lost a female business partner. The innocent areas and the Twelfth House and it it was literally the Twelfth House secret secret situation so the love thing also kind of came to a head ended because everything involves sequencing the twelfth house and then I found out that You know there's some more complications in this relationship that I'm comfortable with and I decided that unless he was able to make me a complete integrated girlfriend in a normal way which I know. He's not ready to do right now. Because he's still urine his MENAS I. I was not going to continue putting myself in that position of heartbreak so I had that Venus Chiron story manifest exactly around the time of the the The perfume line breaking up and by the way Cameron. My producer happened to text me while right after that business relationship dissolved he. He texted me hours after that happened. And I'm telling you this man is so psychic it's fascinating because he literally said sh he said. Hey Maria Hobos well I want. The podcast is so really. Really popular people downloading episodes like crazy. Would you please come back. And he asked me to come back so I said you know the universe is talking to me. Joe Now I guess this is meant to be and that's why back I mean. I always felt like this. podcast was something so I was a little bit like upset. Are you harassed you all the time when you're on a why is that what you're GonNa do it. I really didn't to be honest because I needed time to be under the radar and I was afraid. See what's happening right now. I knew that this would happen. This is Maria this is who I am I so I wasn't. I needed to not do that for a while. But it happens all came out when it was supposed to. So so that's the second Chiron. Venus story guys. Okay now please. You're good I'm telling you relate this to your world so the temporary transit that you're having we're having the third one you have no idea about your mother knew anything thing about it. Mother knows Val Valerie knows because she texted me about it and so I am. I have very bad eyesight. Very bad astigmatism. I I literally can't see a thing without contact lenses or glasses and I've struggled with my is becoming a little more difficult as I'm getting older and so all of a sudden out of nowhere I have not been able to wear contact lenses for the past couple of weeks. I have a real issue and so I went to the doctor and sure enough Joe I get diagnosed with something called contact us over where syndrome or something in the name wrong. I've been wearing contact lenses for over thirty thirty years. And unfortunately people my age mid forties early fifties are often faced with the dilemma of they. They can no longer tolerate wearing contact lenses. And I I'm basically down to within the next month I'm supposed to really limit it but I may. I might only be able to wear them two hours a day. Okay for the rest of my life or my will the reason why. It really sucks. Because I am very blind I I mean I'm not so. My my prescriptions horrible. I can't see anything I can't see anything and I feel very vulnerable because of my glasses. which would be knocked off of my head? I'm blind be knocked off your hand for now if in the battlefields aries anyway. So why. We're glasses every now. All right well make sure they get knocked off your head. Because Venus's areas was the head and the is so anyway the story goes Me My eyes are so bad that I do not qualify for the lasik surgery where I could correct my vision and maybe not glasses writes about that. Could be either I will. I really don't qualify. They won't touch me because I also have autoimmune conditions. They will touch me so my only option JOE is an. I'll know this in the next month is to literally get cataract surgery when I don't have cataracts to get lens replacements in my eyes and this is a very expensive surgery. You're talking sixteen to eighteen thousand dollars because insurance won't cover it because I don't have cataracts so it's like getting plastic surgery for your eyes. It's an elective procedure. But I might have to do it. I might have to get the surgery. So that's my third Venus Chiron story because the Twelfth House rules connects to Neptune. And that's blindness. This the is the head is aries. Venus is your self worth and your your beauty and all of that and that he literally money again money I two of them will money related. I lost with the perfume business and now about to lose thousands with and the other one was love so this this is my Venus Chiron Shit show story that will happen within six days did. Did I explain this well enough to make sense astrologically. Joe Yes I think so and I will. Actually you give a story about my own life with His Holiness tyron thing. I'm I'm in my birth chart. I'm not actually having Being chirons my Venus Venus is at twenty nine degrees my son's a twenty six degrees. So the that's not for a while but in the sky right now because they're linking up there pretty much linked up at this point I'm actually going to my ex boyfriends fathers wake today yes I'm way over the last weekend and they're having the wake tonight so I'm after this podcast going Long Island ex-boyfriend no no no my my like X.. That I dated from a so. I've only ever had two boyfriends if anyone listening wants to change that new cute. Dm Me but he still anyway. We're swingman ever Maria so no no. This is my exit. I dated from when I was twenty. Two Twenty three or twenty four. And we're still friends. We have a lot of the same friends. We were still close and his dad passed away suddenly He was I. Yeah I don't even know like the whole story but I spoke to sister was just as crazy thing that happened and his dad ended up falling and getting damaged and the need passed away So so the weakest today and I just thought it was very interesting that it's today and this conjunctions about to happen in the sky. Wow Venus Chiron. It's very interesting. It is because it's it's gotta be obviously hitting their charts very deeply but it it it for you okay this. I think it's still falls on. You're eleven house right Joe's okay. So it's kind of reopening wounds not next year NATO Venus yet. It's still in the eleventh house us and it's still there and the Eleventh House connects to The Fifth House and Astrology is where you give love because it's connects to Leo and the Natural Zodiac and the eleventh houses where you receive love so the wound that's opening up for you joe is Be Looking at getting in touch with your feelings feelings. Even if it hurts about receiving love and this is going to be a very big lesson for you over the next several years specifically when Venus when Kyron touches your natal genus genesis. Right State Jones stay tuned during and so this is this is my next thing. 'cause you said over the next few years this is why I wanted to bring up because I feel like this is definitely affecting everyone The whole Saturn Pluto in Cancun the conjunctions bought super coming up. Let me just give everyone a little bit of like what's been happening over the last week and a half which I've actually have to ask you about because if I'm wrong but those conjunctions are over right. Ah The conjunction over. The death happens. But we're integrating it now and I believe we're going to be empowered from it as okay. I will tell you the last week and a half no joke. I'm not even exaggerating. I have heard of eight people who died and seven out of the eight had been someone's father which is literally capricorn like the father and I'm sitting here going. Well this has gotta be because this all the planets in Capricorn and the Saturn Pluto conjunction and Capricorn. But I would have thought it would have happened weeks ago when the conjunction was like more exact. Now it's it's kind of fading but I don't don't know of something triggered it in the sky but when I tell you no joke I have heard of seven. People's father's dying. One of my uncles has had two heart attacks in the in the last week. He's in surgery right at this moment. I've as my God Leo. Full Moon. Leo Bruce the heart. Oh that makes a lot of sense. Sorry yeah he's he's at. We're not very close or anything my aunt's husband Nice guy though but it's just it's it's crazy and I every time I turn around. I keep hearing about somebody else's a father's just like suddenly dying more mike cousins grandfather just got diagnosed with pancreatic cancer. I did all everyone not to say. You know if you're listening to go farther to Medina get sick but it's very capricorn to have all this happening to people's fathers and grandfathers and older men and it's very capricorn but my question to you was what the hell could be triggering it this week. Is it just like in my own life. I look at my tar or is it is something in the sky happening. That's triggering this. Well I mean I'm GonNa say that that right now. The Transit Moon is in cancer and it's been opposing all the capricorn stuff. Maybe a triggered it. Okay a possible because you know the full moon in. Leo Isn't happening until the ninth right now as we speak the moon is in late degree cancer. So it's possible especially if it's happened over the last two days we fan. It'll this news of the Moon in cancer is pending against Jupiter Saturn and Pluto. It could be that I I mean I'm looking at the Sky Right now and I'm not seeing anything else. That could explain that so. Your chart is probably see the cardinal people late degree cardinal people if you have anything in the late degrees of cardinal no signs literally I would say eighteen degrees nineteen degrees to the end of the sign of anything. Cardinal Anything Aries anything Lee Lebron anything cancer or Kappa corn. You are very triggered right now by all of these endings in depths and symbolic crazy. It really is so so the fact that the transiting moon was in a cardinal sign it stimulated it I think that's that's my only explanation. I'll take that. I mean I kinda thought to like without without planets. I feel like it's not always 'cause I've had out of planet transits like you know to my personal planets and sometimes I'll find it won't be like exactly when it's happening like it'll be happening around them. But then like I major event will come a little bit before or a little bit after like they kind of like they like ripple for a while in like the in the water you know what I mean we throw a rock in the ripple gets bigger these I I find that out a planet sort of even. If they're the aspect is fading still kind of like reverberate in in in life and in the world and crazy but they moved so slow and so I mean the Outer Planets Saturn Trans. When you have a saddened transit usually does have they call it a whiplash effect so if sat on his making? Let's say a squared your son or even even trying to trying to your Venus. Whatever Saturn's doing Saturn Adam because it rules time it is not the kind of transit that tends to happen early or on the day? You feel. It's almost a month after and remember. The planet can go retrograde and you might get up to three mathematical hits of the transit so you're feeling and extension of it now. A urine transit I have found is actually quite quite the opposite is quick. It's electric right when you've got urine touching one of your planet's you're talking about. I mean it's like within your head spinning a Eh it. You look at the exact hit you mark that on your calendar and you can expect something to be happening. Sometimes on the exact day but definitely within the exact week and men Neptune and Pluto transit's because they move so slow in the sky. It's you're going to feel them even after the exact hits done. It's actually when you still have to have the retrograde when you're you'RE GONNA get three hits of Neptune Pluto transit's but sometimes you actually can get up to five mathematical in your chart. Because of the way that they operate and so they really these transits of Neptune Pluto are going to be in your life for a couple of years so I agree with you for sure. It's just it's math. Yeah so you know if you're out there and you're listening that's what's happening if your life seems like it's about to burst that's what's going. Yeah that's really interesting That that's that's been your experience right now with I mean. I'm glad that it's been you know some of it's Kinda close those two home and and selfishly. I'm glad it's not like my own father. You know what I mean like. It's not sal in my immediate life but it's really close like I just. I was texting someone early and I was like. I'm like afraid to leave my apartment like what's what's the next thing is going to happen every day. I woke up every day this week to bed news about somebody every single week. Well you know it's I. I would say that Venus conjunction Iran remember Venus's the planet of love and feelings and chirons all about the wounds. You're supposed you too right. Yeah you're supposed to get in touch. What your feelings Joe? Even if it hurts and a lot of people especially men Umana am talking to you. Joe Okay had a lot of men. It's very easy to close themselves off to emotions. Not just managing says Benjamin but it depends on your your your astrological makeup the operate right but if you close yourself off to emotions you're not eliminating emotions. Okay they're there and then what happened. What happens is if you can't confront enjoy emotions and really process them you're going to misdirect misuse them and then ended up self sabotaging hurting your relationships. And so the message of Chirons. Venus honest is that being vulnerable is not a sign of weakness it is a sign of strength aries. It is a sign of strength. But you have to acknowledged your feelings. You have to really be able to look at them so everybody out there while Venus is can John Chiron win this phone. Leo is happening connecting us to our heart in emotions. It's you know I never me. I don't know how you feel about this. Joe You having this series too. I am very Courageous when it comes to loving and it doesn't matter how much I get hurt. I will bravely go and open my heart again in love and that I think is a strength because I'm not afraid normally to be vulnerable to love to put my heart out there and so if you are someone listening learning who has that few who has that wound Venus conjunction. Iran can really help you confront it. Do you feel like you're brave in love or you a little bit so it depends actually all right if I am so like if I just like kind of like you I'm not I have a virgo moon so like I'm not giving you spit. You know what I mean like. No I'll tell you when it's appropriate. I'm very like methodical about like the whole. You know what I mean. But if I'm if I'm feeling like a soul connection and like the earth stops moving even when I look at you I am like a full on idiots like I'll tell you what's on anything that's in my mind in my heart. I'll write you poems like like I. I'm very but I don't like that. Everybody that's like happened two or three times in my life so what I'm really really really feeling connected to someone I'm very. I wouldn't even say courageous because it doesn't even cross my mind to be afraid to share it. 'cause I'm 'cause I'm I feel you know areas very passionate So when my Venus scenarios is ignited and I'm really really really feeling something for someone I don't even care like if they if I said something to them and was vulnerable in. They stabbed me with a knife. I'd be like okay. Well I love you anyway so it doesn't matter you know what I mean. It's not for me. It's even about courage but it's weird because if I like some like if I'm a little bit less connected to someone immediately it happens. Gradually like a normal thinking person that doesn't have an aries Venus I'm I'm much more guarded actually. In in that way it it I have to. It'd be like disarmed a little bit by someone and then I'm very much like how you are but you're very consistent you're always very vulnerable and and You know no I know. That's not the part I'm talking about. We'll we'll talk about that privately. Well no but I will see you are very vulnerable and very like you know what I do love about you Maria with with the whole relationship thing even if you've acted a fool you're still like well well. I like the person I loved them. So if you own it you're never like trying to make excuses or like you'll just like this. Why don't care and I feel like that's so aries because I'm the same way like like bill be someone that I'm really into? Everyone's like what's wrong with you like they're going to ruin your life and like I don't care you know what I mean like. We're very indignant. Then when it comes to like what we one well we want we want but your Venus like minded. It bleeds into the the Twelfth House and I think that's also about the Twelfth House because connects to Neptune in the capacity to love unconditionally. We can choose to really focus on the beauty that we see in a human in a soul and that does make us stupid. Love is on. That's really true like that. It's like I'll like someone like if I really really meant to. Somebody get doesn't doesn't happen often and like friends of mine or whoever will be like. Oh what do you like about him. And I can't even give you like one additive. I don't know like always cute like I. I don't fall in love with qualities that people have and I know that might sound kind of suber. But it's like a sole thing like if I look at you and there's something about your that just attract me and I don't mean physically I mean of course it's important But like in your soul like I feel like I'm attracted to people's souls. Oh I don't need a laundry list of liking reasons or whatever the to justify why like them like oh I like the way that their mother and like that's such nice now I might notice it but but it almost doesn't matter to me and I think that's such an aries thing like we want we want and especially with twelve aries in the twelfth house mixed it's very immediate and like I like the flame ignites immediately. There's no because it's twelve thousand Pisces. It's not really rational thing. Hi It's very much about Seoul's connecting and it's very deep but because it's expressed in the sign of aries if you like we don't convey to other people how deep it really is. Does that make sense. It does but I'm actually laughing because you're virgo moon would like the lists. I would think your Venus now. I don't care I just love you and this is why which which is like cancer definitely would love. What would you would think but I feel like that expresses more one time with someone very like Virgo in the Moon in the fourth house with with someone once? I'm with them like I wanna like nest and do things together. You know what I mean like comparison but it's I can't I can't start like that because then my beena scenarios is bored and I feel like it just doesn't work and the other thing about twelve houses remember. I said you're blind spot. So we're blinded with the energies that our in our twelfth house and so Venus matters we are prone to seeing only what we wanna see yes and so now my joke is and I can't remember who I said this too because the third leg of my Venus Chiron story is I- surgery that's going to correct my point saints myself. Holy Shit is hitting my Venus now now my NATO Venus for the final hit and I was blind all my life and Venus ruled matters. Maybe now I'll finally see. Lenses will have some loopholes or glasses. I don't know maybe also for the same surgery I mean you know you gotta hit your forties. But it's there for you so I have to read a quote about That that I think is appropriate for Venus Chiron and remember you know. I'm trying to make sure that all of you listening understand that this is a this is applicable to your lives right now this this weekend the next several days and so find two degrees aries in your chart and that's where the conjunction is occurring. That Leo Full Moon is happening at twenty degrees Leo L. Fi. Find where that is in your chart. Of course you're astrologists can help you. And so there's this quote that I found a strategy group. I can't remember which one that I put it on my instagram instagram. Because I loved it and it's really appropriate because remember what I said about. You know being vulnerable with love. A lot of people out there are so afraid of being vulnerable in love. Because we've all Kevin Hart. Wow Wow wow well. Guess what. There's this quote the Somebody named Hadley Fitzgerald wrote and I love this. It says the anticipation Haitian of grief is one of the reasons. People refrain from giving themselves over to intimacy and vulnerability and I thought that was so beautiful beautiful because we expect to lose what we love and the truth is we do right. So the that's the truth conventionally what we love is going to be lost and through death through physical loss through actual breakup whatever it is and so. Oh we sometimes foolishly. Think that well if I don't if I don't let myself love anymore than I'm never going to have grief life and I actually feel sorry the most sorry for people who are not courageous enough to love because to me. That's that's real grief. What's the point of living in this world? Joe and isolating yourself and and not looking for intimacy and not looking for the real connections with other people that's isolate that's grief. That's right right but I think I think people are just so used to it that it becomes it's conditioning. It's the norm. You don't realize you know it's literally like it's like a sort of looking for like a callous almost like you grow harder and the I think sometimes people forget even to be like that you know what I mean like. Yeah it's some people do and so I think maybe it's a generational thing also so You know and I I. I don't I don't know if I agree. I kinda think people have always done it in different ways. I mean I think it's easier today than it than it used to be because we were forced to interact with each other before cellphones and dry-cleans. You know what I mean like you were kind of like forced to be around the people who around all the time. I'm and really connect with them or you were harmed living in a hut somewhere and most people weren't exactly now it's just so much easier Nor people with your phone we're more connected and more artfully than we ever were before. It's a very weird. It's it's fake. It's not real connections though. No and and the millennials in particular I think are really really really vulnerable to being cheated out of deep intimacy and deep connections. Because it's really all about this easy access hookup culture. We don't have to. We could tax. We don't talk on the phone I could host you if I don't want to be with you anymore and I and I have found that that is more of a millennial issue in I will accept that definitely definitely. Yeah my age and I'm only saying that because you know I I've been involved with us guys and I just think it's so interesting. The generational differences in in in how people approach love intimacy in relationships. That's something to be looked at but anyway I'm just babbling appaling now so we have to. I have to show one more story that I just remembered which is so it will really drive the whole Venus. Chiron thing home so let me give a little back story. I so as much as a medium. Obviously I'm talking to people. I I believe in what I do because I wouldn't be doing if I didn't I'm very much You know I believe there's more all that but that's what my point I've never been a big like God person like not that. I didn't believe that there was something but I'm not very religious like I'm a gain medium. There's really no church for me for the most part You know what I mean like. I was raised Catholic like they. Don't want me Gary Astrologer that I want me either. You know what I mean so like but I I love God. Never been a big like super big into God. But I've always known that some kind of divine whatever you WANNA call it like I feel that and then Last year during my Saturn return I had a little bit of just giving the background that I'll get to the Venus Chiron My cetera terms. Rough as you know on what else knows but I like almost gave up what I did what I do for a living I was like. Oh my God I've been delusional this whole time like what's wrong with me. Eight Chris Chris it was a big one it was. It was very Saturday my eighth house. It was very much around character and it was very much around like my business. `Capricorno Abercorn obviously but it was also eight house so I was like stressed about death in existence. It was very existential and like I was really stressed out about all of it and I I really took like a deep dive into The science behind like people who studied scientists studying medium ship and energy healing and psychics. And just all this stuff because I am I after all I gem rising Virgo Moon. I am very cerebral times So I needed at twenty. I got back on my feet Blah Blah Blah and. I was kind of like well. Now where has God fit in with the new way that I think about this because now I'm like all about you know like evidence and being empirical. Oh Mike Wow do I have any proof so I was like well. Let me just try something so a few weeks ago I. It was my best friend's birthday. My best friend turned thirty one And on the twenty first century I is an Aquarius and she so funny. She bought tickets to something and didn't tell me what it was. She was surprisingly Herbert. They which I thought was the funniest thing for her birthday such an Aquarius right. Don't make it about me high. So I was like okay Weirdo. You're taking me on like on a date for your birthday. But we went with our other the two friends And the night before had been laying in bed and I was like humor one. I was like God. If you're there criminal I'd test my guys like this. I'll ask them to show me we something to let me know that they are my grandparents on the other side. I'll see you know. Show me this tomorrow or during the week and so. I know that you're around and you know about this situation. I get it immediately. I always get the the sign so I was talking to God and I was like you know praying and I said if you're really like if you're really there right now like could you give me like an irrefutable. Sign Tomorrow. Well so I know that you're around so I completely forgot that I even did this right and now. It's my best friend's birthday so I meet her downtown. We the mean To other friends go get tacos or having fun drinking Margarito Block and then we go She bought it was so cool. A I'm a ticket for the four of us to go to a concert It was like a classical music concert. Like Courtney Piano and they were playing Beethoven in an in this old church like on twenty something street so now I never go to church. I go to church when someone dies and someone gets married and maybe baptism if I feel like going whatever so I've never touched so didn't realize when I walked in like I still didn't remember what I had been talking about to God the night before and I'm sitting there enjoying the concert like I went to school for music so I'm like really loving. I haven't heard clubs music in a long time. It was really loving it and the church is beautiful. It's like two hundred years old. I'm looking around on and the stained glass window that we were I was closest to. I was looking at and I'm looking at it now. I'm like I you know. I love the arts beautiful. And I'm looking at the quote under it and I forget exactly what it was but it was a quote from the Bible that was basically like I'm God. I'm here come to me like don't worry about it. You're at I read it a bunch of times then. Finally I don't know what made it click but I looked at it and I was like Oh my God. I like realized I was in a church. I had been like God. If you're there let me know tomorrow that you're around six and I ended up in the church. I didn't even know it was going there. I had no idea where I was going for the cynics window talking about come to me. I'm here I'm God and like the next extend when I asked for it so I laughed to myself and my best friend asked me laughing at so I told her I was like I just got the weirdest sign from God. I know he's on Craig's like I'm talking to God I was like but it happened and she literally turns me. She's such a witch she goes. Did it happen because that window over there. How does it happening like this is so crazy so anyway my point about Venus Kyron? I just thought I'd share that for for anyone who you know needed point about God maybe just talk to them and ask them because now I'm like okay. Well I am. I got what I asked for us. And now he's been praying. I've been not like you know praying like how I was taught in Sunday school but just talking auto whoever whatever you WANNA call it I use the word God because that's what I grew up with. Whatever you want to write a source all the universe where the hell you WANNA say high-power right higher power? There we go so last night or the night before it was recently I was laying in bed and I was talking to God and I was actually asking for the higher power to help me like open my heart more and love or to be more. Vulnerable came out of nowhere. I was just laying there and I just I meditated. Because I've been meditating before bed because really fell off the meditation wagon fleet the last two years so I would like opening my shockers every night. Doom exercises like when I first started doing my psychic development. Meditating meditating so I lay down after and I'm like you know just doing my nightly thing and this is what I was praying about like. Please help me with my heart. Please up and be more vulnerable. I you know I wanna I WANNA my heart. You know like not more on my sleeve but I was using my mother's an example because you know my mom you know how she is a no one in the listening knows my mother. My mother is I'm not saying just because she's my mother she's literally like a saint like my mother is just ridiculous. She could be like them. You could do the most horrible things are gonNA kill you. 'cause she's double Scorpio. But you've got a pisces moon and it shines very bright because she's all about forgiveness and and like I must literally has like she wanted to be a nun when she was a kid like she's very she has that energy like that very saintly religious but she's not religious at all my mother not at all. She didn't have tune on her senden. I really believe that she is. She's so spiritual will but in a way that's like like sexy to order something and my mother's heart it's because she's so open and I was like I wish I could be more like my mother. I feel it in me and you know I I just I have a hard time letting it out sometimes because I have this angry aries energy all the time because You know like it's just so hard to not want to run people over when you're driving like areas is very aggressive aggressive. It's got a war Hulo like they are so I'm always kind of battling that and it was just. It was so funny. Because when you started describing Venus the Venus Chiron run conjunction the sky. I was like Oh my God you know this here. What are we talking about this since because it was literally in my prayers the other night? So it's it just. It really drives the point home. That astrology is scary. Drives the point home that we are responding responding libration we are connected to Asmus and to the meaning the symbolic meaning of these patterns and they you will reflect in our during realized whether you know it or not. Because I didn't I didn't even know why those why was feeling that it just it just was what I felt like. I needed to work on at the time. And now I know why and now you could make it conscious and over the next few days I invite you and I invite everybody else listening. Make all of this conscious making make your love will open your heart. God that Madonna songs took me seriously. Okay Chiron around Venus conjunction everybody. Open your heart nicest weekend. Let's get some loving hope. You all get laid me to God all right on that note. Oh my gosh. I think that's a wrap Joe we're going to say I can't believe I mean I feel like it's like riding a bike I feel like I did not take Off Your back your back. That's it I'm back in my blaby mouth is back and I guess I'm no more flying under the radar so Ryan. Yeah all right. Well Joe Joe Thank you so much for joining me for today's podcast guys. Remember check out cirque. Joe's work at Joseph Pereira Dot Com and his last name again. Get his P. R. E.. T. T. A. O. L. Yeah Joe. PROIETTA DOT COM. Now my full name. SMELTER NAVE RIGHT I go to it's it's our EDA it used to be. But my great-grandfather changed changed it. When we came from Italy? I don't know don't ask me is a key are ETA to ours. Won T. Okay do you know that I. I've just I'm sorry I'm an idiot anyway. But that's his name Sake. Joe Sakic media you'll find for me and Yeah you could find needed insightful. ASTROLOGY DOT COM. Go check out my youtube videos. Obviously you're listening to the PODCAST. Thank you all so much for that and until until next time. Keep using the power of astrology to grow into your soul. Take Care you've been listening listening to insightful astrology with your host. Maria diesel. Mom Visit Maria on her website at www dot what insightful astrology dot com to schedule your personal consultation and learn how to use the power of astrology to grope rope into your soul.

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31: YOU ARE A POWERFUL F*CKIN BEING!!

Happy Abundant Hippies

21:30 min | 10 months ago

31: YOU ARE A POWERFUL F*CKIN BEING!!

"Welcome to the happy abundant hippies podcast. My name is gone now and I'm happy rich hippy. I'm a mindset and manifestation translation coach and my mission is to help you use your mind to consciously create the world that want to see we do do this. Through many forms many techniques journalists mindset work. And who's your visualization union. So so glad to have you here. I am so glad that you guys are back with me again on this episode. So Oh so. Many things have happened since the last episode on a lot of personal development a lot of up lovling ally of really great growth in my relationships inch ships in my mental health and mental growth in my spiritual awakening and in just my business and my coaching and my passions passions. And the things that I'm doing so as you may have known if you've listened to the previous episodes I launched my design in your future program which just began yesterday. We had our first call yesterday November first and It was such a great experience in so much better and so much more successful than the last launch that I had which was in the beginning February two thousand eighteen four mindful manifestation the station which is now a free cells self study for week program all include the link in the show notes by this the the difference between who I was then in. Ym now is so different during this launching during this program Creating writing down writing the outland. I I was so passionate about the topic because it was so authentic aon. It wasn't so much coming from a hustle hustle hustle mentality like the previous course worse but this was coming from a passion from a belief that I have and that belief is that we are powerful beings we can honestly control kroll in manipulate the energies around us in very subtle ways almost ways. You can't see at the moment but there's a magic. The happens when we tap into our energy being and we focus on in our mind in our thought through to a vision and how we can create reality. So I'm going to step back here because sometimes you can get a little too much and I can feel like way out there But there are some by beliefs that I wanna be sharing more about In this episode as well as in the happy abundant hippies facebook group and a instagram. I am sharing about my like corner quote hippie beliefs and sometimes. I'm a little bit hesitant because I am such a big advocate. A huge thinker or a believer in the fact that anything that we can think we can create. And it's only we are only able to see in our physical reality because a we can see it in our fiscal reality. If we all collectively believe if a certain idea as well so individually in our personal lives in your personal live you could you do have power in directing acting where your life goes how you feel The things that happen. You don't know the how but you can have an individual vision in Have it happen. Have it be created and then once you're there once in the actual realization in the creation of that vision so for example. My work at at home job The fulltime job that manifested. I highly believe I manifested this. Because we're so much that I so much energy in intent in thought I put into the into That vision so when it came to it when I answered got that job than I realized that was just got most perfect job ever. I'm I'm a health coach by the way for those who didn't know and in addition to my mindset manifestation coaching and on everything else that I do When I know I had it happened I looked back and I was like? Wow I could see the dots connecting so perfectly Likley but previous to that. When I didn't have it I was always wondered? How's it going to happen? When is it going to happen? Will what like when is going to happen. been and it was until that actually happened that I realized it was happening. I just you know I knew it was happening at a new those going to happen but I still like wondered we all have. The House can happen but there was so much trust in that it was going to happen. So this can happen. Happened in your own personal life and I did a Webinar which is also something that I'm proud of since the last our since last podcast episode but this Webinar urban our was called how to consciously create your reality. It's no longer available but I will be putting it out there again for you guys to take a look at it as Woah. Everyone else will take a look at it. It was only available for a very short amount of time on but I will be putting that out soon so keep an eye out for that so this Webinar was so so beautiful so much of this that I am talking about right now. I put a lot of it in that video. And the idea was that as individuals jules you can focus on a vision and align your thoughts align your mindset which means do the work do the self development and improve or work with your energy energy and your subconscious to align with that vision. So when you do that when you are aligned mentally physically physically energetically with the vision that you want to happen is a science to the law that everything else around you the energy around you. I have to align because when you start vibrating at a different level when you're intensely intentionally unconscious consciously focusing on a certain envision and making sure that your habits aligned with that vision that your thoughts aligned with that vision and that your your internal world internal thoughts subconscious level aligned line with that as well and there are so many ways to do that such as journaling meditation guided visualize ations visualizations on dancing. Things like that lake in ways that you can intentionally vibrant your energies at a higher vibrational frequency and have that end vision in mind. We have high-end an emotional and energetic by abrasion when you have a vision in mind when there's something that you see in your mind and it is exciting you and your body's excited as well in your whole being is energizing things around. You will happen somehow someway There will be things that will be happening. That will come together to make it possible. Energies have to vibrate to match your vibration. This idea of your inner world creates your outer world and that when you start by reading differently things around you start changing and similar similar to the idea that when you start taking in new information from your external world intentionally picking information that you want to internalise you can you. You will get more and more of that and hands. It will change your physical energy energetic being because it impacts your thoughts and impact your emotions. So this is this is I posted on my instagram. The idea of I don't know if it's intentional or not. I I this is not what I WANNA do my mind in but there are so many things around us in society ask society that where I noticed it. Drains drains energy. It takes away our energy drink. His aren't energy. These are low vibrational activities that really drain our energy. Take away our power and I'm definitely guilty of some of these as well so for example some things that I actually see Draining our energy and our power power is. I've noticed in myself that sometimes my phone translate energy when I am not very high vibe state in a take a look at my phone I scrolled instagram or crew spoke or check my email. Whatever may be and I put my phone away in it? Seems like my reality Kinda shifted. I feel like Oh. I'm not as hyped up of canessa excited of now as how I was before I went on my phone. And I pay attention to this. And I'm very cognizant of this because it's so important for me to make sure that my my my energy is aligning with what I want to happen. And so so that's one thing. Another thing is a binge watching watching consuming a lot of move on information in the entertainment through detainment that itself drains energy with consistently done over and over again as as well as Casual Saxo this again is not judgments because we all have we all do those things or one or the other. But it's the idea that giving giving away her physical energy to multiple people without intentionally on focusing on who you actually give it to So that's one example. Another for example is probably alcohol when the easiest examples of a lower vibrational thing that that takes energy but there are so many of these things and it's really important in to understand which one is the one impact you impact new most on for me. I noticed it was my phone and a while ago I also noticed it. It was when I watched movies and TV shows at. I've definitely I don't really watch a lot anymore. I'm very very very picky on what I what information permission I consume through the entertainment industry via ideas. Answer I I totally digressed at these. Are these societal Edel normalities that are as well as our foods are one big thing is that joins our energies specific food. That we There's only a few examples But if if when we as a society you may see as normality we become we start to lose our power one as a collective to as individuals individuals. And when you start to see you when you start to slowly look at those things around you and see how they're impacting energy new slowly. Let go of them and and released them. You open up a whole new world of ability to focus 'cause then you're no longer You no longer basing your thoughts on on somebody else's thoughts and Your reality in somebody else's reality then it allows you to really take control of your power in director director. Mind Director Thought Director Fiscal Energy. Exactly where you want it to go. Anyone you're intentional in conscious and mindful of it on a daily basis or even make it a part of your being. You can change so many things around you and we could do that as a society as well which is going to be one of the main things go to emphasize here on this episode in so we can all do it. We can do as a collective consciousness. I think there's no I know there's so much power in collective thought and so when you take when when I know this power in if you're listening to this I'm guessing you know this power as well. The power in our collective thought than you now that if there is something something that a big masses of people see in information that ingest those ideas on those thoughts are being are are collectively. Impacting impacting all of us. And it so important I have a huge life mission to be able to put out messages. The armour empowering the are collectively we can be entertained but also inspired toward a better direction where we can focus this collectedly unconsciously as a group on this better world that we want and I know there are skeptics. There are people who who are like. I don't really believe this. But if you are a few no people around you who are basing basing their beliefs on the people around them basing their beliefs on what they want to what they listen to basing their beliefs on a Freezes or old thought patterns or old ideas are no longer servings society of we are still bill using those were constantly allowing other people's thoughts and other people's ideas to consume mar mind yawned when we no longer have or when we give all of our thought power away to other people then other people are directing our reality. If we're basing the things that we believe reality to be based on old experiences old traumas based on old thought patterns the way things are supposed to be even though you want the world to to be in a better direction. It's time for all of us to release the things that we no longer want to be true. Yeah things happen to reaffirm the fact that maybe or reaffirm that maybe people are always kind but the opposite is true as well that there are people who are just always kind and it's hard to the big in the beginning. I know it was hard for me to be like this belief that I have. This thought that I have is not actually mine. I don't actually believe this. I don't actually want this to be a part of my identity. We need to start questioning questioning the thoughts and beliefs and things that we say on a daily basis need to start questioning if they align with the world that you want to to see are. They aren't her thoughts aligned with the world that you want to see is what you watch aligned with the where you want. The world to go is the information you consuming through social media movies through music through books look for example to there are also a powerful way to give you information are those things aligned with the way you want your life to go. Are you hanging around with the people who you look up to. Are you hanging around with people whose lives you actually want to replicate because you we are. The collective consciousness is so powerful that it can impact us. So we'll have to. We all have to think like. Can I be the want to empower those around me and direct the way we like for example people like your friends and family. Are you going to be the person that leads that group in a better direction a better thought direction a better belief direction. Are you going to be that or is there someone around you who you can. We can like be around. All the time is going in that direction who wants people to go. Connect- more positive loving direction. We gotta be picky and Choosy and picking and choosing and I know this might seem odd the we can either lift people around US Oregon stagnate with them or or we can choose to be around other people who lift us up and who we can lift each other up who you are now is not who. You're always going to be who you are now is who you have been before and you feel like that. That's awesome continue. who have been before news? Do those habits. Those thought panners slop beliefs until new growing. However if you don't like that the choose to make a conscious effort conscious effort to implement or to to exemplifying simplifying embody the version of you that you want to become surround yourself around people who are also going in the similar direction who are also empowering Howard themselves who are also want to grow and expand and go to this world is loving more peaceful more successful happier healthier world because that world exists that word Dow world is so possible because we are again powerful Fuckin- beings we have to understand understand that we are amazing being just our our physical body? I've said this over again and I do want to study quantum physics in land with the Macabre Some atomic so potomac a particles in energies when you zoom in to our our skin in all the way down all the way down and I'm not I'm not a science person and the and want to be more a lot to learn because I want to explain this so much better but if you zoom in all the way to this up atomic particles these energies in our body. Don't act the same way as our quote unquote reality. That should tell us that there is. There's something more going on there that we have within us so much power power so much like amazing things that we have only seen in movies movies and stories and the superpowers and telekinesis a thaw you know be the to hear each other stocks like those things are dislike like powers their fictional quote unquote. But but they're I believe they are possible because it just takes a collective collective thought to make things powerful mead like together as a society to to take this end look into learn more about it in. That's what we are doing like this field of study of the quantum quantum science is so amazing and it's everything is coming full circle to for me like a because I grew up in a religious background but I was very spiritual so there was something in me telling me. Hey like you are just a part of everything like I was against. These religions allegiance on ninety against them. I don't think they work for US anymore. I feel like they started off media something really beautiful and powerful in a similar message but then again it got twisted on to something that has been those draining that is no longer empowering and we need to take back our power we need to recognize that we are such amazing the powerful beings and we have to take that into our own hands and create the reality of the world that we want. Create the life that you want because you can get it is because it is a newer power. 'cause you are in control of your thoughts you in control of your actions in control of your habits your control of your your your reactions you you are in control of all of it. Use that to empower you. Use that to move forward use that AH to connect with others grow us for the highest good of all. It's your power responsibility. I hope you guys enjoyed this episode of you enjoyed it. Please let me on instagram. And don't forget to join the happy abundant happy happy happy abundant hippies. He's facebook group and please review and rate this podcast. That more people get access to it and I can listen to this as well because I'm trying to reach as many people as possible because I do want to start thinking in a way and that I want society go so if you guys like this is like what I'm talking about if you resonated they were all this and share it Sharon review it and let as many people as possible here this so that they know that were not alone like this is not just one. One person's thought I know a lot of people agree with the things that I'm saying. So let's put it out there

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Os Podcasts esto entrando no Banheiro - P&G lana escova de dentes com ALEXA

RSS News I O Podcast de Not�cias para Podcasters

10:48 min | 7 months ago

Os Podcasts esto entrando no Banheiro - P&G lana escova de dentes com ALEXA

"Oh like it out to the bay. Says you'll be saving. The evangelism is in west who podcast geneticists by podcasters following following caches. Even Jesus. Was this loop name you Avi budget cash promise you heavy and hangs Potrosnik etc are Chica. spotify this is causing Gaza podcast. She comes up to me knows squad in in Beijing is due to launch Amazon Alexa Cheeses. We'll see on the news report you guys. You know cheese spot up. Broadcasters I see so the news it is by necessity. Immortal Sponge Kassy's INC both of Geo Suva the gas system. We run by Edel at proctor and gamble almost CELESTICA. Saint Louis C. Three dollars who out financial Alexa contre. La The put in what you do. Not Bazi Shimada Starts Pony Brevity Yup in coming up what say feet and Toco Abbasi Compact. His Jagua appreciate that the paddock obedience dodge ability the WIFI body. Fuzzy Coco okay. Boys accumulate financial excerpts between Takata. MUSICA over. We don't program not just going into verification. 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Chievo spotify Jacob Zuma Colorado Bill Toco Abbasi Compact Alexa Amazon Alexa Cheeses Beijing Sponge Kassy Melissa Investigate Chievo Gaza Edel Lisa G Do Heckman Louis C. Jakarta
297:  Take Your Child to Work Day with Felix Gatti

The No B******t Marketing Podcast

08:26 min | 1 year ago

297: Take Your Child to Work Day with Felix Gatti

"Burn. Bul shoot. It's the Nobis marketing show, I'm Dave Massa vich CEO of mass Aleutians, the world's only no bullshit. Marketing firm today. We have a special episode that ties to tradition here and mass Aleutians today's episode will feature Mike gatty who's been with mass solution since day one of our fifteen year old company, and he brings his son Felix for take your child to work day. It's significant to mass solutions as a company because in our first year, I brought Alec my oldest son to take your child to work day. The tradition continued with Brevin my middle son and Carter my youngest. We did not have a gap. There was no break in the years. It's all been consecutive and Felix continues the tradition and anyone else at mass solutions. We have a couple of new ones and on the way kids of our mass Lucians team members we want to continue this tradition because we strive for balance between. Life. I work second and still having a lot of fun at work being challenged. And that's what this is all about with the take your child to work day might gatty bringing Felix on this special episode of the Nobis marketing show. Welcome to a special edition of the nobody s marketing show with our special guest Felix Gaddi. He's twenty six years or now. Wait, how old are you sick? He's talking to the might. Six years old. Wow. It's a special day because it's bring your child to work day her take your child workday, which one is it. It's take your child to work that. Okay. So what was your favorite part of coming to work today with that Dunkin donuts Dunkin donuts. Do you wanna tell everyone what happened in when you got stuck in the elevator wanted talented number three the floor number three closer talk real close. So I got down to you can talk all talk normal. They got to number three floor hours at the elephant. Dodd was looking out the girl, and I got stuck in somebody helped me, and then when the office lend daddy was there who helped you Mr. Dan, but your favorite? Brand target target. And what do you like unto target Pok Mon cards, Pokemon cards? Okay. What's your favorite Pok, Mon sit up you're gonna talk into the microphones Jaggi night. Dragon. I what is he do? I know. I know shoot fire all shoot slow. Does you? And he's a water type of water type. What does that mean? Talk up into the Mike. He. So he has he just water on him a lot. He does. Okay. Ms water on cues, your favorite person that works mass solutions. Daddy, me daddy, who's your second favorite. Carter's dad Carter's that? Do you like misty miss Benita? Now, they call. Edel bit a little bit. What else did you do today? One member. Remember, did you build a tunnel? Yeah. We bull the total out of boxers. Yeah. From what what kind of boxes we got all of our drinks delivered. What else did you do? We. The winter see the waterfowl newest broken. Did you did you did you stock up? The fridge stupid all the drinks in the fridge. What else did you do? What else do we get delivered? Paper towels to put dies in the closet. You had to put three in. I put the rest in. We're both put three in. What else did you do send some emails? No, all it. Does your style stuff on the night your exit out? Was actually doing stuff on the computer while you taking futures actually was doing two hours. Not just pressing ran the buns hours pressing buttons. That are knew what they could do. Did you close out clues the code? What code never the code where the zebra head is. What's ahead zebra head and in there? Extra whole thing out. Did you shut it down? That's crazy. What else did you do? Then while you're here. Did you draw you cleaned all the whiteboards too? Right. Didn't clean the wall. That's still a big big big. Didn't clear why didn't you clean the wall? How did you do show of our is done? So I guess we're gonna have to go upstairs and clean up the wall. No you want. I told you to new didn't listen to you know, that place. We went to eat was called. What did you have? Heats? You're would you to drink sprite? That's your favorite Papa. What's your second favorite pub? You know what? Drink it. I only drink it. But I like it. What is it repair? Shoda? Pov hop not soda you. Call pop not so too. Pop. Yeah. That's what it's called. Some people call it soda, but if you live in Pittsburgh you call pop. Don't live. In fact, live Pennsylvania will wear is Pittsburgh pitched for WALE for their where I don't know what state is Pittsburgh in. Vania? So that's where we have we live in Pittsburgh. No, we don't where do we have. Do you know what town we live in? What's the name of our town? I don't know Pitchford. Don't we live in Mount Lebanon? Amartya said that when when did you say? Year last year, take your child to work day. No, I never said they're never gonna plug cast room down here. Even never in a podcast room saying how to your sister. It is not here. I know you can say, hi. And then she can listen to it later. Eve. What do you have to say anything by USA? I love you. Out by what about tomorrow me? What do you wanna say? Bye bye. Hey, we be done. Are you done with the podcast? All right. So can you say? Thanks for listening. Listenable everybody. Please scrubbed video. And what are you do hit? The notification him Bill. Thanks, everyone for joining us on a special edition of the no BS marketing show. On the weirdo. Have Murphy ship.

Felix Gaddi Pittsburgh Carter Dunkin donuts Mike gatty Dave Massa CEO Mount Lebanon Pitchford Benita Dodd Edel USA Murphy Mr. Dan Pennsylvania twenty six years fifteen year Six years two hours
Resident Evil 2 Remake  Surviving the Horror (Analysis, Comparisons, and Impressions)

Controller Disconnected

20:58 min | 5 months ago

Resident Evil 2 Remake Surviving the Horror (Analysis, Comparisons, and Impressions)

"Hey podcast Tom here. Do you like knowing all the news. Never needed to know. Well me to everyone. And every week we get together on the winner gets nothing podcast where we break down the weirdest news stories of the week. Make jokes over some beers. It's a podcast where people like to have fun and be misinformed so tune in crack a beer. Tackle Ball and party on with the winner gets nothing podcast. Oh and leave the kids at home. We give pretty explicit Hello everyone this is. The controller disconnected. Podcast I am your host Matthias Curro continuing from the last episode today. We'll continue chugging along on the hype train for Resident Evil Three remake as a Christmas present for myself last year I bought the resident. Evil Chew Remake and after going for some of my backlog I I finally played it and completed it. During the month of February. I liked it a lot and have some good things to say about it. They also have some other not so good things to say. And I'm GonNa say them like right now on this episode. Let's go to the park where I say two things. I won't be spending any time talking about the history of the development of the original game that one point five version and things like that. This will be more strictly about just a remake itself in my impressions with some comparisons to what I remember of the original game with that. Being stated let's begin the first big elephant in the room that everybody had to talk about the changing camera position as you may know. The original game had fixed camera angles. That showed only portions of the room. The player was in at any time. Once the player character moved far along part of the room the camera would change and show a different but still fix perspective while some may find is overly restricted and quote unquote bad. Other people argue that this is exactly the point of fixed cameras letting the player see only a small portion of the rooms at anytime heightens the anxiety and fear of the game and uses in them. And because you can't see very well surprise. Attacks from zombies and monsters also are more effective all. This has gone in the remake. The camera has been changed to a third person perspective behind decorators and it can also be rotated around them allowing the player to keep better islander surroundings by looking around all sides. Players shouldn't have lost the anymore but this is balanced by the claustrophobic environments which are made up in large part by tight corridors and very dark lining the only illumination. Most often coming from a flashlight. The normal Islamise have also been made tougher to kill even though the move slowly like they used before resident evil jumped the proverbial shark head. Shots are no longer guaranteed to instantly kill them but it does certainly help. And if you're lucky you'll pop their heads with the right shot in. Oh fall on dead on the spot the perpetrate this time to shoot them in the legs so that will fall to the ground and then make a run for it before they get back up or start calling around after you but you also need to be careful and not shoot around everywhere like you fast yourself a John Rambo type. Accuracy is much lower in this remake. So the proper thing to do is to line up shots carefully and makes them all count especially with the more powerful weapons as the animal can be a lot more scarce. That's only just scratching the surface of the changes. But I'll talk about them for two when discussing the different stories scenarios might play Leon A and Clare Beeson areas so keep that in mind whenever I mention each protagonist side of the story. The game starts with both characters stopping by gas station outside a raccoon city. This I realized that something is terribly wrong. That muted under creatures are all over the place attacking them. This was changed from them. Meaning a diner inside the city in the original game and also made into a playable sequence. It's a great way to introduce players to the new aspects of this remake. The camera the controls the lighting details Zombie and gum mechanics. It's pretty well encapsulated in this one part so that players ready when confronting the muscles and the rest of the game. Both Leon unclear managed to escape to the city and the police car but by the time to get there. Everything has already gone to hell. They stopped by a barricade but are attacked by zombies and on top of all that a tinker whose army was infected by a Zombie comes barely into them. Fortunately diminished to escape the zombies before a truck crashes into the car but they get separated from each other when the tanker explodes and this is where the main part of the game begins for each of them Liam makes his way through some back. Kelly's and interact police department building for the front while. Claire makes it in through a side entrance on a makeshift graveyard also in from the DRP. After getting in trouble exploring a police station. Leeann is rescued by his superior. Lieutenant Murphy Brenna and told to find a way to exit building through a secret passage. That one of the officers found before clear also makes to the reception area and ends up having to do the same thing and here is where we find one of the many holes in the plot which are supposedly happening at the same time. Both sides both protagonists are looking for the shields to open a fountain message in the reception area but they never run into each other in the station at any point in the game unless you count the part where they meet just outside the rain if you open it passage on one playthrough you still have to do the same puzzle on the second which would indicate that the first counter managed to find another way through but were never told how it happens because the protagonists only meet each other three times over the course of the game and only once on the police station like mentioned. I'M NOT GONNA spend too much time talking about this because it's annoying to me and I think it would also be annoying to or listening so back to the game proper then. There are some small changes to the course events in the station which are supposed to keep fans of the original game on their toes to make them think that something isn't quite right or originally the player. Would I meet the laker monster on the hallway on the first floor on the West Side of the station? You could even see a crawling along the window before going through the door for the hallway for extra scariness. The liquor is nowhere to be seen on the first floor in the remake. And you'll find him only wanted the upper floors in the west side instead. He is back to his original place. One second playthrough though complete with crawling the big time Mr X. also makes a big return it oh boy. He means business. This time. This time he has had had a he will get very very angry if you shoot his hat but even if you don't he's still going to punch your head off your body so the best course of action is to run away unless you're a little cheating bastard like me who pay to unlock the game. Rewards and had a rocket launcher with infinite Mo from the beginning. Which takes Mr Exit One shot? In that case just go bang on him and go on your merry way the guy's relentless in the remaking won't stop coming after you. So if you're more annoyed and scared concept like I was I suggested. Same thing continuing the fountain passage the characters ended up in a boiler room in half to fight the muted. A William Breaking for the first time. The fine is the same in both scenarios with the difference being the other characters involved outside of the fight with them being either. Won't for Leon and Sherry Birkin for Claire? After that you climb up the ladder and then up in the garage station where things play out differently depending on which your plane as for Leon Edel leaves him behind and he must find a key card to open the garage shutters it just so happens it as a journalist inside the jail on the same floor who has one but Mr Starr is a whole for the wall behind him and crushes his head with his bare hands before the journalists can give on the card error. Open a jail cell. The player must find battery cells and insert them in a wall socket beside it for clair. The police chief Brian Irons holder. A gun point and kidnap Sherry leaving Claire Stranded in the garage. The shutters are also down for her and she must also find the key card as well but instead of going to jail she goes up to arms office back into station. The keycard is blocked off inside a little cell in the office and the player must solve the wall socket puzzle as the other scenario to open it a classic case of the same thing except it's different once best that it's down to the sewers. It's at this point where the perspective switches the disappointing Kaiser's reach campaign. The what happens a little earlier for Clare side? Leon get shot by Annette. Birkin the wife of William and Ada goes after her while he recovers Ada has called the EM average allies which the techs electric things that can be quote unquote hacked. It's used to open doors and beverages that are order wise and accessible such as the very first time you've used it to overload a huge fan to busted apart in Grove Road Tunnel Mr X. Comes back to knock you out in the sequence since it lost me infinite AMMO weapons. I actually had to make an effort to stay alive which was quite a change of pace for Clare side dignity of Sherry and have to escape. The orphanage chief irons imprisoned hurt in sounds enough until arends finds out and tries to stop you with some quick maneuvering. You get the key to the front door and unlock it. Only to find out that this chain from the outside. Fortunately well Schwarzenegger as it can be regarding the circumstances the G. Master William Birkin turned into attack sirens and saves you before he can do anything but not before he unlock your Sherry with a strain of the virus. Once you take control the protagonist again. It's down to the sewers for real. I would argue that Leon. Has it a lot worse than his side of the sequence since he has to run away from giant crocodile who is only stopped back conveniently plays huge gas pipe that you shoot to exploded bits clarifies such thing outside of seeing a little baby g? Masaryk pulled from chief finances chest. I some of the same version of this scene from the original game and I have to say that it preferred the way that it was before his body gets torn apart from almost half from his shoulder down to his waist. It's a super gruesome sight in the remake. Looks like a bad version of an alien chest. Burster back to the sewers. The sequence plays along the same regard the protagonist the supporting Carter finds themselves trapped in a trash chute of sorts by Annette. And it's up to you to unlock the door to get to them by finding chess pieces from the door. Switches the company who designed. These tours was really into chess. So that's why the unusual choice. If it were up to me it would have made the pieces into Formula One helmet or little wrestling figures. This is mostly an interesting trial back and forth sewers but there is one truly disturbing sight during this bar that I have to describe during the down dirty tour. You'll come across. What seems like a big reservoir filled with trash fair enough. There's trash everywhere in this case you may think to yourself you take the letter down into the reservoir and make her way across inside the underside light. Chew warned chess pieces that you need you. Walk around the dirty water until see a little G Monster Baby Papa from the wall doesn't look right they're sticking to walls you don't think much else of it and you climb up to a small pile of trash to go through to the other side of it for a few dead zombies on top of the stomped. Look at this may be when you realize you're not stepping on trash. The trash seems like it's moving a little bit herself pulsating like a beating heart or circulatory system pumping blood across large thing. It's alive you get down from it on the other side and stopped looked at the wall. You notice the same thing on a pulsating GLOB of disgusting stuff and then you realize it's not just on the amount of trash or in that part of the wall it's all across the wall. It's spread across the dirty water. It's on the ceiling. The entire room with some sort of mutated theme treated g virus. The first time I realized the site never wanted to run away from a place so fast before just passing by displacing game is enough to drive chills from his pine. I really have to come in at developers for crafting such a terrifying room. Congratulations to those bastards creepy me out. So well I think this is a good time as any to stop recover from that horrific side and listen to some advertisements. Hang in there. The nightmares almost over. I'll be right back. Welcome back after getting on the chesapeake needed to open the door and placing them in the right spots. It's time to rescue partner but number four to turn on the power to the door separating you to find whatever the parkers pretty close by going there such on the power and then Bam William Birkin punches ceiling asking for more trouble. The boss fight doesn't happen inside the room though you both go somewhere else. More open with a huge credit container. That you need to use to knock the monster off once he is done with you. Meet back with your partner and it's down to the umbrella laboratory. The protagonists have different reasons to go there. But it's the same place on the less Leon goes of ADA defined the last sample the G. Virus and Claire goes with Sheri's to find a cure for the inoculated virus that I mentioned before we're now getting very close to the end of the game but it's no time to relax inside. One of the sections of what is called the nest. You'll end up in a greenhouse a source looking for security clearance to get the dissection were g virus sample slash jurors housed in. This is where a new enemy is introduced a plant based Mosser. That can kill you with one. Hit if you're not careful you know the expression killed with fire. That is exactly what you need to do to these monsters. It's the only way to kill them for good. Fortunately by this stage of the game we should be equipped with the proper to job a flame thrower for Leon and a grenade launcher with flame rounds for Claire. Except for the very end of the game plan. Sale is don't show up anywhere else. Added this section. So don't Fret your little heart thinking about them so you make your way to the other side of the nest. Get the virus samples. Lesch cure and go back to your partner right not so fast. Big Bad Birkin. His Back Bay Bay. Yes you have to find him one more time before going back. Get that done with an attempt to get the hell out of dodge rear partner before to self destruct sequence bring seraphine down your head unfortunately for Leon Ada is killed before the both of them can make their escape. Well she is quote unquote killed. Since it's well known. She shows up multiple times again over the course of the series but for this game at least it's assume that she is dead for good during the Escape Leon included actually meet and talk to each other again for a screen communicator. I don't understand why they had such little contact. Each other in the remake when a speak much more often the original game outside of the Star of the game and now at the end. They're only communication. Remake is through small written notes. Which could even be missed if someone is enough attention when playing but anyway Claire lets you know that there's a traces using to get out of the facility. So he tries to catch up to her and not get left behind while going down a cargo elevator MR X. Comes back for him with all his might enforce his power level was over nine thousand and he's going for broke. Meanwhile as she's getting the train ready to go William Birkin comes back for one. Lesko eclair both protagonists overcome yards and the feet respective monsters embassy to escape clear against the train running and away from the crumbling facility. Leon just so happens to catch up with her when Sherri as the train is passing by and jumps on the long in her first. Run for the game. This is where it ends. Leon Clarin Sherry meat inside the train. The East supposedly escaped unharmed from the city and the city. But then you hear anonymous growl before the credits roll. Something feels off to see the true ending to this story. You must complete game again on the second. Run the three survivors meet up as usual but the here and feel something strange on the train. Clara GOES BACK FOR THE OTHER TRAIN. Cars to investigate. They are oddly litter with Ama- which should be enough indication of what's about to happen. Sure enough the last mutation of Jebron comes back for one final fight. There's nothing resembling a human form in this thing. It's just a giant pile of flesh with sharp teeth trying to swallow you after dispensing your whole arsenal into it. The monster is incapacitated for awhile enough for Leon and Clarita detached. The train engine from the rest of the cars. Unleash Burger King behind to born in self-destruction explosion and so it ends the survival. Horror nightmare is over and the sun rises over the horizon. Is Leon Clarence Sherry? Walk along a leading away from raccoon city but the fight against the pharmaceutical company responsible for Zombie. Outbreak is not over. It's up to them to take out umbrella looking back on this wild ride. I can't think of a much better way to adapt original resident evil. Choose TO OUR MODERN GAMING. Pallets unlike the original resident evil remake the developers to give players a new experience while maintaining this the owner game painting. Our experiences would a new coat of paint and reigniting the fear that we creates a few from the series. If I were younger man I wouldn't have paid attention to this game but since I became a bigger fan over the years and seeing the president got in the year of its release. I decided to give it a try. I can take a few cares In my actually started to think. It's good to fuel since it tickles. My emotions more than usual and now I'm hooked and I want more. I can already picture myself getting resident evil seven which I also haven't played and resident evil remake efforts released. I Dunno if I'll jump all the way back to the original games but another what. The first one's remake is definitely in order. At least there weren't many downsides. GimMe my opinion aside from the parts where it kept running around the place where we pick up things to solve puzzles sometimes with Mr X. breathing down my neck. It was actually worse than my second belief because for some reason I kept missing this one door that I had to open with the bolt cutter and past. The door wasn't him that I needed to use the progress for the game. A spent around the. Now we're running around the police station looking for where to go until I gave up and looked up where the item was in. I felt like a massive idiot for missing stuffy so obvious to me my first time playing and one less thing before this is over if you wanNA feel real anxiety and fear while playing this than just. Go and try to walk around the liquor. They can't see you in a game but they have ears sharper and tax so any quick move will have them jumping at you. You can avoid them by walking very slowly around them but it's one of the most heroin things you can do to yourself because you're aware at any moment that one slip of your finger could mean certain death so that I didn't emission before either but there's a hardcore more with available which brings back the increments from the original games. There are no auto saves in this mode so the only way to save is by using the ribs on the typewriter alike goal times also enemies are much stronger ammos a lot more scarce. But that's a given. I think I'm not that much of a masochist to try from itself but feel free to torture Selfie for so desire. This might now seem like the end. But there's still some things left unsaid. Barbara's into evil chew and I will say them in the next episode so make sure to subscribe sue. Don't miss out until then spend some quality time playing this great game and that does it for this episode of controller disconnected. Thank you very much for listening and please leave us a review on Apple podcasts and Chaser you can find these links to both in the show notes or you can go straight to rate this. Podcast DOT com slash gone disconnected. Please describe wherever you may be listening and we are available on all podcast platforms. You can follow show on twitter and Instagram at the handle at Khan disconnected and last. But not least please share this episode with someone you know word of mouth goes a long way to helping us grow. Hey that rhymes once again. Thank you for listening. I am a theus. Carneiro in nine. We'll talk to you soon

Leon Claire Stranded Leon Clarence Sherry G. Master William Birkin Leon Ada partner Leon Edel Clare Leon A Leon Clarin Sherry Matthias Curro Tom Mr X. Back Bay Bay John Rambo Grove Road Tunnel heroin Murphy Brenna
Anne Ortelee's December 15, 2019 Weekly Weather

Anne Ortelee Weekly Weather Astrology

31:59 min | 8 months ago

Anne Ortelee's December 15, 2019 Weekly Weather

"Hi everybody welcome to in or at least weekly weather. My name is an early. I'm an astrologer here in New New York City. I'm sitting here at the bright red desk with sunshine shining in my windows Today is December fifteenth. Two one nine where. The countdown to Christmas It also is very Jubulant week ahead Lot Positive Energy this next week so I want you to kind of take maximum use use of it and really push push push things move things kick things out the door into the world all the moon this week have positive closing aspects. So we'll talk about that Edna second and and what's up ahead so there's a lot of Forward Motion Chiron stations. Last week. Could've brought up your wound Or you know made. Did you feel like wow that. Just kinda hurts a little and then this week we zip forward The end of the week we have the capricorn ingress. This where the sun is at the lowest part of the sky goes down there and stations at the tropic of Capricorn. It's called the winter. Solstice Sun the solstice station and so what happens when the sun stops appears to stop for three days in the old days they would worship the sun. They would do the festival of lights. They would have a Saturn all they would celebrate and celebrate and say wait sons come back back and he would stop and he would pause for three three days and then he would turn and he would return now looking our mythologies no different religious beliefs. You know the descent of the sun for three days the descent of Christ priced for three days into the underworld and the resurrection. So this is very symbolic for us this week. The resurrection of the light. The days have been getting a shorter. A shorter shorter a shorter by a minute or so and then on the twenty-first they stop and then they start to get longer by a minute every day. The days get litter. So it's the darkest night I have a wonderful celebration. Here in New York with Paul Winter Solstice. So anybody in New York. I recommend go. He doesn't solstice hostess concert. Where the darkest night you sit there? And the dark of this cathedral and they play music and it's pitch black and then the sunrises and it's it's Beautiful Cathedral Saint John The divine and the light rises the sunrises they have this huge gone it's like twenty foot Gong in the back and there's a little guy in chair what am I. One of my dream is to be able to ride that Gong. Play it in the solstice concert. I know that's never gonNA happen. But I can fantasize. It's always Scott playing this play in the Sun Gong but he gets. He's in this little chair. And he rises up any waxes Gong and is he wax it the whole Church vibrates and then they light the pillars of the church like the way when the sun comes up it lights the lights the earth. So it's a beautiful ceremony and the you know. The winter solstice is the dark of the night. It's the deepest darkest longest day And for us in the Northern Hemisphere for our friends in the Southern Hemisphere. This is their longest shortest night and then the days. Start to get days start to get shorter and the nights start to get you know everybody that it's a switch because now the sun's at the bottom of the earth so it's making Australia Australia and Africa and South America. It's their high summer so but for us the darkest night where we kind of the Northern Hemisphere folks for is the darkest night where we sit in that space of. Wow what a what am I contemplating for people. It's a really big contemplative time and as you know next year we have a thirty six year cycle. Starting a twenty nine year cycle starting a thirteen year cycle starting three times part one part two part three or three separate cycles and we have a twenty year cycle starting right so. There's a lot of stuff happening next year. We're planting seeds so this year we're getting our little all star little gardens ready. We're getting our stuff cleaned out so you know I mentioned last week that out that up that thing that Elaine taught me and I've been doing it I've been doing it with my regular Giller people but I've been doing it with other people to where I sit and think okay like what do I owe you owe me. What do I wanNA give you back when we WANNA take back so that was very cool? It was back and forth worth and then this morning is I was lying in bed kind of you know doing my little morning prayers I remember the person From my childhood now my childhood my College Hood My Sophomore Year in college and And it was kind of an interesting memory. 'cause you know what happens when you start clearing this stuff because I've been doing it. I mean having active clearing giving back on the soul level Her her name popped up and I really honestly on. It's been years since I've thought about her and and and she popped in my head And I was her roommate and I I really yeah. I guess it's True Confession Confession. I did not prevent other people from being mean to her. She was kind of one of those people that had stuff on her bunker. where it always was perfectly arranged you? You know like everything was perfectly spaced. Kinda like the Guy I dated for a number of years actually She had everything perfectly arranged. It was very Sat and we were roommates and you know find but there was. There was a bully on the floor and the bully did not like her and the bully would say to me. Let me in your room. I WANNA I wanNA mess with her bed or I'd be in my room and she'd come in and she go. I WANNA mess with her bed and I did not stop her. I didn't do it but I didn't stop. It and I mean honestly Catholic Girls Sophomore Year. We're not like bully bullies. But what she would do in. This guy is going to sound very weird. She would bring this ironing board in and put the ironing board in the aisle between our beds and then she would move my roommates stuff on her uh on her bed and hundred desk just move it and then she would leave. That was that was the bullying but it made my roommate crazy and I didn't stop it. I didn't stop it. I didn't say don't touch her stuff. Leave it alone. You're making her crazy. I permitted it. Tacitly permitted it and so I I think it's kind of a combination of watching the guys. Vote at the impeachment cause some other Republicans did not look happy voting. No some of them looked really mad. You know the ones that are truly of drunk the Kool aid but some of them are like no no. They looked a little like yeah. I know this wasn't right but I'm Gonna I got I gotta hang out. I can't go against it and I was thinking about her this morning and I thought I you know I know it made her crazy. You know and after that year she never talked to me again And I I also was like wow. I think I have wanted to do with her. Even if I haven't thought about her in many many many years because this morning it was like popped right up you know Woman the other woman bringing the ironing board into our room and then moving her stuff around in it was like the ironing board attacked her bed. I mean you know. We're we're sophomores. Where stupid for for Catholic girls all virgin? I mean it wasn't like bullying but it was bullying and I- permitted it and so I was thinking about her this morning. I think so I think I need to do a thing with her You know like whatever that is. I'm you know it's popping so what I want to warn you once you start doing this some of the people from your pass where you you didn't step in where you didn't say. Hey stop that can come up and you know you watch where you're kind of going. You know what this needs to be changed. This needs to be shifted rested. This needs to be adjusted and taking responsibility for your behavior for your actions and understanding where you are aren't in right relationship ship to the world this next week. Great Week for doing it because all the aspects are very positive. They're all pushing us into the next chapter. They're they're all inviting us to go. Okay what is unresolved. What is unfinished? What do you actually need to do to get there? What does that look like? And and so this energy that's really moving very strongly in the world of a forward motion. And how do we. How do we work with our relationship to power with Saturn and Pluto meeting up? And what are we going to say about power. And what are we going to say about the structures of our world. And why do we say that about our structures our world where have have we. Where are we in our own right relationship to the world where we in our relationship to power? What is our understanding power? And how do we want to work with at Saturn Pluto. There's GONNA be knocking on everybody's door somewhere in your chart at twenty two capricorn so it's really understanding what that is and and allowing that to work on a different level allowing that to change on a different level and it's you know it's giving it permission To have a different story to have a different outcome to have a different way of A different way of thinking about things right. And that's important for us to do this this week. And also if you start clearing people like I was I've been doing. You might pop some of these older ones. Where maybe you weren't you weren't nice? You weren't kind you know you didn't you didn't Protect you didn't stand up for what was right you let things go by And and honoring that as part of your you know we we live our lives. We Learn I. I love the Maya Angelou quote quote where she says you know back then. That's what I knew now. I know a little better now. I know differently or now I've under I've come to understand differently so don't be mean to yourself when that stuff comes up but sit it and look at it and kind of honor it and say yeah. That's what I knew how to do then. And now we're am I in this world and it is a great week a lot of people Reaching hanging out connecting figuring out stuff solving things divorce is getting finalized. People saying okay. I'm done I'm leaving this job. People saying okay. I'm you know resolving this issue with my family okay. I'm you know I'm speaking up for what needs to be taken care of. You know. Watch where you're feeling this need and to be responsible or to take seriously 'cause Saturn is a serious planet your authority. He's in the sign of Capricorn as he gets closer to his marriage to Pluto where the power has been being used either good or bad and then to say to Saturn and Pluto like okay we need to make accommodations making understanding about how we're going to restructure our power and just watch you know you're gonNA find signed People writing in complaining or people talking and being irritated. And then you WanNa Kinda stand in your power and say you know I hear you but you know that's the way it's it's going to be or I hear you and I you know that's a good point I'll change it it understanding we're we're we're being asked to stand in our truth and and our truth is our truth and then there is the bigger world and how we impact folks and what. This is big accountability. If you have not been living your truth or you've been leaving living in Bad relationship to the world where you've been doing crappy things this is when you get caught you know. It also doesn't necessarily mean you're going to be punished today. 'cause that's not always how it works but you are going to be taught caught and then you know people are GonNa know I know about you and so then you have to figure out what you WANNA do about it. So it MAC capacity. We want to be a little more like Whoopi Goldberg on the view. where she says you know everybody's done stuff off but you wanna Kinda think about what you're doing and when it's pointed out to you that maybe it's not correct or maybe it's a little crooked or maybe maybe you're taking advantage Then maybe you WanNa fix that corrected adjusted or you know own that you're you know you're doing bad shit shit basically because it's the Karma of it you know the balancing to helping it come back Into right relationship and I think the honor you know Saturn and Pluto. There's an element of accountability. So one of the things. I used to say a lot when I it was younger. Is Do your Saturn Saturn because when we do our Saturn we're living in right relationship to our chart so everybody has a Saturn somewhere. My Saturn is in Scorpio. which is the sign of money and accountability? And it's in the house of It's in the House of other people's money My Eighth House. We're my house of debt. So I try and lived at free you know I basically on a cash You know I pay. I save it before I buy it kind of thing But I also am you. You know I'm GonNa see the bookkeeper for Oba the astrology organization so I pay the bills and I when I my first boss when I first worked in New York Kashid took advantage of women because they weren't necessarily assertive about money and and she bounced our paychecks and My mother wrote a letter. Actually to her Congressman Horton and the woman had stolen ten million dollars from the federal government. my mother. She announced she was going to start doing this program. My mother wrote a letter. Saying this woman's a crook and so after she stole the ten million dollars. The federal government found my mother's letter and I testified at her trial and she went the jail for fourteen years. So I have this Saturn in the eighth I always catch people doing bad shit with money. It's just part of my Karma part of my job in the world. I'm not an accountant. But they sold accounting systems. So you watch your Saturn and now. I'm an astrologer. And I talked to people about their saturns you know what their work is what their workers in the world the purpose path. So look at your Saturn because the NATO Saturn is up for being worked with now because whenever Saturn does something in the sky you're natal oh Saturn vibrates so in my case. I have sat in the eighth but I've Pluto in the seventh so I also am a witness very often to bad behavior or you know I see see it happening like in the case of the ironing board with my roommate and lately I've been working on a situation where there's some a couple of situations actually where there's bad behavior and you. You know kind of saying you know. That's bad behavior now. Nothing I can do about it except pointed out that it's bad behavior and then say you know but you know that that behavior will not go on. Noticed punished punished. Maybe wrong word unaccounted for. Maybe that's a better word that when you do this stuff it it does come back and so this is really a time when Saturn is asking us to balance our Karma and where we have not been in right relationship with our soul. Because we've been maybe a little bit greedy or maybe a little bit didn't want to stand up to bullying say don't pick on my roommate or a a little bit You know G I'm I'm not What's the word for it? I'm not I'm not comfortable taking that taking that on on you know I. It's understanding what our Saturn is is our backbone Saturn rules are bones. It rules are skin. It rules are structures. So this is an important in time with Saturn Pluto going through this this transformation of our structures. It's asking us. What is the structure you want in your life and it's pulling together your NATO Saturn and Natal Edel Pluto wherever they are they're getting married at twenty two capricorn and that degree as a hot degree for the rest of this year because Jupiter and Pluto or meeting meeting on there three times and then Saturn gets married to Jupiter at the end of the year and he says okay all that transformation we did this year that set the roots for the next twenty nine years the next thirty six years the next thirteen years the next twenty years? And if we haven't been right relationship we're going to not have uh excuse me a very good time of it so it's honoring ad and trying to get yourself back in right relationship and that that exercises sized Elaine gave me that I've been sharing with clients and I shared with all you guys a number of you wrote and said it was very helpful. which is you know when you break up with someone you give them back? Excuse me you give them back the sweater. You get back your toothbrush when you break up with someone on a soul level. Give them back what they gave gave you and get back what you gave them. You kind of do it on an aesthetic level and that's actually kind of fun and very clean. And oftentimes they They respond or they call hang him coughing here. Like a crazy person Sometimes they'd call respond. And a Lotta times when you do this it triggers. 'cause you're severing the cord between you or your releasing you're you're releasing the cord between you and blessing it and thanking it and giving it back to them a lot of times it triggers stuff just like in my case this morning. This woman I thought about in years popped up and I'm like oh I guess I have to do that with her. Okay got it Because even though I didn't do it I permitted to happen right and But obviously on some level you know I always watch what shows up. It's real important and pay attention to what surfacing nothing big stuff surfacing this week that said. It's a very nice week for getting things accomplished. So when we look at the week's aspects today today the moons and Leo With you know Bright Sunny Gorgeous Day here in New York and it's going to be in Leo tomorrow. The sixteenth going void at five ten PM Moon manlio trying the son in Sagittarius so today and tomorrow. Great Days for getting things accomplished Then it is void Monday night From five ten until two sixteen in the morning Tuesday night middle of the night to six. Am when moon goes into virgo and is in Virgo. The seventeenth eighteenth. It goes forward at three zero seven. Am with trying to Venus so moonen virgo training Venus in Capricorn again. A good closing aspect than at five. Oh four am on the nineteenth. The moon goes into libra and it's in libra on Thursday and Friday and it goes void at six forty five in the morning on the twenty first with a sex tile to the sun. INSANITARY is so all week long. The Moon is really functional. Very happy good closing aspects unlike last week where she was a little bit more contentious But this week. She's positive she's happy. She's communicating. She's having a good time. She's she's in Leo. The sign of creativity. She's in Virgo. The sign of work. She's in Lieber signed a partnership and she's a Happy Camper So that's all during the week during the workweek on the twenty first to move and he goes void. It's it's next Saturday. The moon goes away at six forty five in the morning. And it enters Scorpio at seven fifty seven. Am again these are eastern times. And it's in Scorpio. Saturday and Sunday going void at ten twenty seven pm again moon. Joining Moon in Scorpio. Joining Mars and Scorpio good closing aspect and then it goes Void Sunday night and it's void until eleven thirty in the morning on the twenty third third when it enters deteriorates and that also has good aspects but the moon's boy the morning of the twenty third. So this whole week positive positive closing aspects and a great week for getting things accomplished as the moon rose through your Leo. You're virgo your Libra Scorpio. Houses now on Sun on next Saturday. Today we have the winter solstice. What I opened with where the Sun Enters Capricorn at eleven twenty PM? If you're in New York go see Paul. Winter's solstice concert at Saint Saint John The divine. It's well worth the money. And it's amazing experience and sit on the long side of the short church not the short side. You see better After many years of attending those concerts so the winter solstice of course the son gets to the very bottom and it stops and then it returns starts to return north again and go up towards the equator and towards The Areas Equinox when the days are bounced so the Darkest Day or the longest act the longest night in the northern hemisphere and the longest day or the shortest night in the Southern Hemisphere this week Venus also enters aquarius and when she enters there's Aquarius. She's going to be an Aquarius For about a month and she goes into Should look this up She goes into Pisces on the thirteenth of January so he just an aquarius very chatty and communicative and very connected. She's all about the big picture she does. You know things like hey let me get you a gift that you can use That would be fun. That would be interesting. You know maybe the gift of strategy or maybe the gift of a group activity or maybe we can go to a play action oriented in group oriented so she's got a lot of positive energy around that and she kind of Pushes things forward in that direction So gift of astrology sign up and give somebody a gift certificate for reading or Access astrology how their own Robbins Mark Wilson. I are are going to be offering a a weekend workshop on the weekend the thirteenth of March on different techniques to you so you can sign up for that. That's it's a nice gift and it's not going to your house and you don't have to dust it But as the moon genus goes into Aquarius she. Kind of is a little more geared towards The community and how we work in the community and what that looks like and then this week also has a couple of other nice aspects but those are the two big ones The Venus Entering Aquarius and the sun entering capricorn. So let's go onto the aspects for the week The as as we mentioned the moon has good aspects so generally flowing happy connected related positive and good closing so they get stuff done not a lot of harsh aspects out there. There's a bit of Neptune. So Neptune always is. We're we're a little bit Not so clear And that's okay. Hey you know that's part of Neptune's job is to make us think we're in an allusion when really we're in reality So the sun this week goes from twenty-three Sagittarius to to capricorn and as I mentioned on the twenty first at eleven nineteen pm e enders cap and he doesn't have a lot of aspects but he He does have the health aspect on the fifteenth. So kind of pay attention to help things and then he has a parallel to Jupiter. Today the fifteenth where. He's kind of. It's a little bit of an overdoing energy in a good good way Sun and Jupiter at the same level of declamation down there at the bottom of the bottom of by the tropic of Capricorn. So they're kind of joining up and expanding. The Sun is also says quadrant Vesta on the nineteenth which is a lot of changes around home and Hearth Energy and Energy on the twenty second of communications nations being very important son also squares Kyron on the twenty third which is a lot about You know next Monday which is a lot about about Working with where. We're maybe feeling a little more wounded mercury this this week runs from eight Sagittarius to twenty two. So think about that. He's going really pretty fast zipping along and he's in sad so he's GonNa wake up every planet in your chart between the degrees of eight and twenty. Two is Moses along wrong. He does by declaration because he's down there at the bottom have aspects to Saturn Pluto in Venus this week And he kinda wakes them up up so he's GonNa wake up Saturday on the seventeenth. He's GonNa wake up Pluto on the eighteenth and the nineteenth is Venus it and so. There's a lot of opportunity. Shouldn't there where he's going to be talking to you about Excuse me matters. That are serious now. This week Venus Saturn and Pluto. We're all gathered together down at the bottom when we had the impeachment vote and so next week I would imagine the vote is GonNa be on On the eighteenth. Because of Levine the mercury aspects to Saturn Venus seventeenth and eighteenth the mercury aspects Then mercury is sex juno on the eighteenth and she she also he he also was square neptune on the nineteenth. So it's a lot of energy here around. What is it our ideas remember Mercury's in his detriment right now he's answering to did you bring Capricorn So People's words you WanNa Kinda pay attention to what they're saying because they can say a little bit too much because of the Saj but it's answering to Jupiter and capricorn saying they're serious about what they're saying so pay attention these are. These are times for serious words and serious thoughts Mercury also has an aspect with the nodes of fate on the twenty-first where he is being asked to pick his make his choices and how he wants wants to proceed and then he has to Jupiter. Excuse me I've got some Liam coughing all over the place here. He has an aspect of Jupiter on the twenty first and then he has a hard aspect to Pluto on the twenty second in the twenty third because he is in what's called a semi textiles. So he's kind of in a Saturday and Pluto's blind spots. So you're going to get news that you might be a little shocked by or you might go home. You know 'cause it's right by the holidays you might go home and realize well my parents are your old or you might have or my family members are old. You might have a conversation around the the missing. The people that are aren't here anymore. That are part tired of your part of your childhood and your youth. It's very deep Christmas season. Because of all these planets and CAPRA corn which really makes us aware of the passage of time Venus. This week runs from twenty seven cap to five Aquarius. So she's going along and she is going to catch up to urine us on the twenty second in which is a little bit of a like wow. I didn't know about that. She has a square to urine. This and of course this is an important one because Venus rules urine us so whatever that surprises you get around eight thirty in the morning on the twenty second kind of no. Oh I'm I'm supposed to pay attention to this. This is important. She enters enters aquarius as I mentioned earlier on the twentieth and this week she has a parallel to even though she's in she's in a capricorn and Aquarius. She's paralleling allowing Pluto in Saturn's so think about it mercury Saturn Pluto Jupiter Venus and now the sun all down at the bottom of the earth. All what kind of in a big clump. And that's a lot of energy right and of course cap record energy because there's so much down there is gonNA shoot up into cancer. 'cause there's so much weight in in that energy kind of creates this little cluster of energy which kind of energizes the cancer houses. So just kinda watch for very deep emotions oceans around old structures or old things in your life that are part and parcel of where. You're going This week Mars has has a health aspect on the sixteenth which is kind of You know pay attention to any health stuff again because we are closing chapter for folks a lot of people are going to be passing and leaving us Because their their time has done here and because we are all starting hurting new chapters. So there's a major new cycle for everybody including the people that are leaving. They're going off to their new cycle So kind of watch you know. Just make sure when and people leave you would you tell them. You Love Them You know say goodbye with a big hug and you know. Be Aware of the fact that everybody's kind of really feeling a little bit bereft Saturn Catherine's very existential sign and a lot of times the capricorn when you talk to them one of the reasons. They're so dedicated advocated. Doing something of value is because they need to feel that they're worth it. They need to feel that they've done something they've they've contributed a value to the earth. Right now we're all honorary capricorn. We're honoring and learning. Well what is the value. We've contributed to people. What are the things we have brought to people and I have to say for whatever reason this last couple of weeks a lot of people when they call for readings if they're a new client they'll say thank you so much for what you've been doing and even the old clients are saying? Thank you so much for what you've been doing and I'm like Oh you're welcome. You're welcome and I'm like you know I've been getting all this appreciation so I'm Kinda like yeah appreciate the people but on we're honoring. What the structures are that supportive so really go out and honor them and to all of you? Who Send thank you for doing what you're doing? Thank you for being client. Thank you for being listeners. Thank you for your work in the world where you're bringing out a message of personal growth and you're saying gee you know I'm trying to learn how to work with these energies in a positive way and bring them into the world and I'm trying to make a positive difference in the world and I think if we focus on that that will really help us so this week Mars is going to be in Scorpio. And he's going to be sex tile to both Saturn and Pluto on the nineteenth and the twenty seconds so that's Great Opportunity Midi for us to send out into the world what we need and to really say. Hey you know this is what I can do to help. This is how I can contribute or this is gee I wish I maybe had contributed in done something different. Jupiter this week has a really positive aspect with Neptune on the twentieth. A- quintile where she's is inviting he they're inviting us to think of the higher vision that we can work on and you're in this. This week is Szeswith. Quadrant to Athena. Giving us a bit of a breakthrough in terms of how we think and what we do. Invest of course try and series. What is it? We're going to be nurturing and growing the forward motion I was talking to someone and they had a problem with an employee. And you know it was a real power struggle and I said well you know. Why don't you try? You know thinking of them having a new job and I'm getting out of your life and not working for anymore and they were like Oh okay I can do that. And so they did and so. The person got a new job in his leaving. You know so so like if you can't you know you can't do it with them locally. Imagine them getting something better and leaving and going off and doing it. That's a nice way to get rid of the people that you don't want to hang out with anymore Outward for you to be free of them you know or or imagine yourself free of them. You can't change what you've got but you can envision what it could be and then as you start moving towards that. Wow the other thing changes right remember when Michelle Obama. When she wrote her book I wanted Brock to change and wanted back to change in the therapist? Said you can't change him. You can change yourself. That's IT and he gets to be himself and everybody adjusts when you change. Everybody else changes so changed this this week. Envisioned Your Life Envision the chapter clean up the messes. I'm GonNa go do a meditation on my roommate. And I'm apologize. I guess for Letting the bully lean-to Messa per bunker and move her bedspread and you know. I mean it was like stupid but it was like. Oh wow she was she was really upset. Yeah she I mean really only source memories watch what POPs. This is a really interesting week. Have a great week in or at least signing off from the bright red desk wishing you a marian bright and I'll see you next next week here on blog talk radio take care bye bye.

capricorn New York virgo Leo Elaine Northern Hemisphere Southern Hemisphere Paul Winter Solstice Sun Gong New New York City Edna Natal Edel Pluto Mercury Scott Gong Whoopi Goldberg federal government
The U.S.-Australia Relationship, With Charles Edel and John Lee

The President's Inbox

29:56 min | 11 months ago

The U.S.-Australia Relationship, With Charles Edel and John Lee

"Welcome to the president's Inbox they see for podcast about the foreign policy challenges facing the United States. I'm Jim Lindsey Director Rector Studies at the Council on Foreign Relations this week. Topic is US Austrailia relations you with me discussed the future of the US Australia alliance in the face of a rising China are Charles Adele in John Lee Charleen Lean John or both senior fellows at the United States Studies Centre at the University of Sydney in Sydney Australia Charles previously in associate professor of strategy and policy at the US Naval War College he served on US Secretary of State. John Kerry's policy planning staff from two thousand fifteen to two thousand seventeen earlier this year he co authored the Book Lessons Tragedy Statecraft in world order. John served as the principal adviser on Asia for the Australian Foreign Minister from two thousand sixteen to two thousand eighteen. He was the foreign ministers lead adviser for the two thousand seventeen foreign policy white paper the first comprehensive guide to Australia's bilious foreign policy in more than a decade currently. John is also a nonresident senior fellow at the Hudson Institution in Washington. DC Charleen John. Thanks thanks for joining me today my pleasure thanks for having me. Revenue Sanja Sean if I may I want to start with you and if you could just sort of lay out to us how the world looks from the vantage point of camera or Australia more broadly the politicians and strategic elites in Australia except that the world has changed particularly with respect to relations between the United States and China. They used to be the fairly complacent hope that United States and China could be a lot more integrated in the way they have the business relations. They used these type that in that China could be a responsible stakeholder. That hope is now gone. I think way a straighter is now is that we recognize. China is a problem but there's not yet agreement of sufficient agreement with the United States as as to what we actually do about it John. How would you describe the breakdown of the debate within Australia in terms of Australia's relations with China. I suppose the harder line of the strategic relates would want to constrain China in some areas limit China's power or at very least as limit China's capacity to make decisions that would be detrimental to Australia and its allies. There's a software group that would still want the United States and strategy to offer more carrots for China to change its course. I think a straighter is gradually hitting towards the former. The hotta wrote the harder line of action but eighty steal a very lot debate in camera and he brought Australia to moment charlie. You're an American ex Patriot in Australia Elia. What shortage strikes you the most about the debate that you're seeing among Australian so we've been living in Australia for a little over two years at this point and and I guess there would be a two things Jim strike me. Most one is when we moved to Australia in mid twenty seventeen. I had followed Austrian politics and foreign policy at St knew that the debate was quite healthy about the United States future in Asia no less what China was doing what I didn't anticipate at the time even as I noted things were heating up was that Australia would basically become a frontline state in the debate on the future of Asia and that's both because of some questions over the US staying power but really because of Chinese actions not only in the region but with an inside of Australia itself so it has been a topic that has been front and center sometimes a little bit louder sometimes a little bit softer softer but consistently and in some ways the Australians are quite far ahead of the curve and in other areas they've lagged behind so that's one a big observation the second one though is contrasting it what I see in Washington the Australians in the policy circles that John was just outlining. I think think have made a fair amount of decisions more or less uniformly see the challenge but once you get outside of camera the camera bubble they call it a when you get up to Sydney or down to Melbourne which were most business is transacted no less when you get out to Perth in Western Australia. Which is where a lot of the minerals come from the the debate is very very different and so within the business community? John has already outlined that there are some real differences of opinion because thirty percent of Australian in the outbound trade goes up north to China when the Chinese leaded in and on university campuses the other place where it's really flared there is a dependence on Chinese students coming in at the University of Sydney of which John and I are both fellows at the US study center one out of every four students is from mainland China so that has really shaped the debate in different ways. I think than you're seeing play out here in the US. I would say Jim that to add to what Charleston said. Australia is ahead of the curve on very specific issues where the Chinese have directed actions against us so foreign interference foreign infiltration institutions now institutions. Australia is ahead of the curve in fact. I think Australia probably leads the world in terms of the push back against China. We have pass fairly tough legislation against in foreign interference directed at Chinese activities sorry to interrupt John. Could I just stop you right there and ask you to just paint a picture for people as to what specific kinds of interference Australia has seen coming from China in his that interference being conducted at the government level or is it being done through third parties those a time when the perception was that Chinese interference was very sporadic and there wasn't a systematic nature to it. What you're saying in the last two years is a lot more information has come out about the Chinese united front and systematic attempts to infiltrate some talking about attempts to we know the politicians attempts to infiltrate both parties all branches of both Party's attempts to infiltrate AL universities attempts to infiltrate our Chinese diaspora communities and attempts to infiltrate our a Chinese language media overtime. We've realized that they have not just been attempts to Chinese have been fairly successful so for example last year we had a senior. Sania Labor Party senator fourth resign having received donations from a Chinese citizen in return advocating China's position on the South China Sea in current times. We've seen a Liberal Party a government member of parliament whose association we've Chinese groups have increased suspicions of motivation says this is Gladys Lou. We've looked at the Chinese language media in our country. One estimate east that ninety five percent of chinese-language press is now owned and by entities with direct links to Beijing propaganda apparatus that has been substantial success by the Chinese united front to infiltrate our the end of this these student bodies and increasingly quite a lot of evidence is being published by press and this really has changed not just the Bayton strategy but the public perception off China so in these areas foreign interference in particular Australia has responded quite robustly but in the strategic debate as to what you do about China in the longer term how how we position ourselves with respect to China in broader terms that babies just beginning several times John you mentioned the term Chinese United Added Front. Is that an actual organization or something else that united front is a vast bureaucratic apparatus belongs to the Chinese Communist Party. It is an organization which is directly answerable to the State Council in China. It is a substantial organization. It has at least forty thousand officials working for the United Front the purpose of the United Front East to increase domestic support for Chinese Communist parties but significantly one of the motivations are one up the objective is now to rached Chinese diasporas in various countries particularly Western countries and tried to co opt or intimidate those yet spurs is to support Chinese objectives in their home countries and it's that overseas mission as it were which has come to light in Australia which has become very grill fifth straight wins and that was the reason why legislation was passed last year specifically targeting Chinese activities so you're seeing situations and in Australia where Australian citizens of Chinese descent are facing intimidation from ages the Chinese government and is sort of cow them into not making any criticisms of China were Beijing's policy correct correct. There are two ways the Chinese have been caught effective. The first why Oy as you mentioned is intimidation and coercion so they'll be intimidation or coercion of Australian nationals of Chinese origin the intimidation and coercion could come the form form of US threats to it'd be S- interests which they may have in China or sometimes even threats to families of those family members who are still in China. The second effective way way they've managed to have presence is that they have engineered a situation where a lot of the Chinese. ESPN groups in Australia the organizations are led by individuals with sympathies to the Chinese Communist Party so even though the vast majority of Chinese Australians on not sympathetic necessarily to Chinese Communist Partie de Voices all the community organizations in Australia tend to voice very pro China views charlier astute student of international national relations and you know that affinities countries have for one another because of culture and of political governing style are powerful but they're not the be we all end all material interests matter a lot and you mentioned when he was speaking in a moment ago about sort of where economic activity is directed for four Australians. They're a great deal of business. Being conducted between Australia and China cooking walk us through the extent of Australia's Australia's economic relationship with China absolutely Jim in broad stroke the way that this normally gets publicly framed in the debate in Australia but this is actually true true. I think on a much larger scale throughout Asia particularly Southeast Asia is that there are two partners of choice. You'll hear this all the time. There's a security partner of choice. That's the United States. Australia has a treaty alliance with the United States that dates back to nineteen fifty one we share values we share interests but there's an economic partner of choice and that happens to be. China and the narrative will also run that in Australia. They like to talk a lot about the fact that there have been twenty nine on interrupted years of economic growth. It's has become one of the most prosperous advanced countries in the world and a lot of the discourse will be that the only reason and that Australia was able to weather the downturn after after the global financial crisis was because of their trade with China and again. I I talked about the second ago. It is a big trading relationship chip. It's between thirty one and thirty three percent of outgoing trade goes up north to China and that's in a whole bunch of different areas although they're generally it's different different products and services than for instance what America traits with China so it's mostly things that are dug out of the ground. be it still beat aluminum. Be at iron ore were were cold or things like wheat or wine or products such as education now. That's the broad frame of the debate. Although there are some errors actually in how that's framed because of course Jim when we talk about economic relations between countries were talking about more than just commercial relations and so one of the products that our center has turned out is when you dig in a little bit further and beyond just looking at commercial trade when we begin to talk about investment into Australia when when we begin to talk about employment numbers when we begin to talk about taxable revenues that contribute to Australian. GDP It's actually the United States that contributes. It's the most natural when we're talking about inbound. FDI flows it's the most by about ten to one over China now. That's not always where the public debate and discourse is is but that's the truth of matter now returning to the narrative oftentimes which you'll hear is yes we understand that we are very trade reliant on China China and therefore we need to walk this very narrow line which becomes sometimes impossible to walk because we don't want to push back too hard or we get put in the diplomatic freezer by Beijing coal wine will sit on the dock if and when Australia stands up for itself which has happened a lot over the last year so that's the broad contours of the debate at this point so jon helped me think through what this means for the US Australian alliance in the US Australia relationship more broadly Rodley each day. I walked to and from work I go by the Australian Embassy here in DC. There's a large sign outside that says a hundred years mateship gets going back to when the United States and Australian forces I paired up and fought together in World War One so we're actually have more than one hundred years of mateship but what Charlie is just paint a picture of is in Australia which confined itself at a minimum cross pressured its main economic partner most visibly in trade aid is China but it security partners the United States. How does Australia intend to navigate those rose cross cutting current it has become more difficult than it should be in many respects because the current trump administration at least he's from distance doesn't same tickly interested in multilateral economic initiatives with allies so for example to give you a counterfactual we'll head trump engage in this current economic war with China but had trump put more emphasis if not signing the tape pay pay if he put more emphasis is on at least on mutually beneficial trade agreements with allies in the region it would have been easier for Australian politicians and it would have been easier to present a narrative by which we could strategically get on board. We've countering China but at the same time there are Economic Botha's Flores Boris as a result of doing so what you have now as Charles mentioned is this fairly a stock narrative of China is our economic future and states is l. Security Strategic Feature and Charles mentioned daddy's a false dichotomy but it's one which carries a lot of weight. Wall Street's perception that United States is really only only interested in signing Connie not with that authorization of that of allies in particular now your question. How do we navigate that. I think we need to talk walk with the Americans to come out with some institutional outcomes some economic institutional outcomes that we can live with for example with these economic wall. That's that's being led by non states against China at the moment Australia in principle has actually been quite supportive are prominence to Scott Morrison is one the fee regional leaders who openly acknowledges that there is a problem with China and that there is a problem with the global economic system and it's incapacity to deal with China but we haven't way as in Australia we haven't really been given any indication of where the United States wants to get to this in an economic sense until we get that will be very difficult for the to go further than we have been on the economic front in countering some aspects of Chinese Industrial Policy Jim the John and I together a report recently about your very question. What does the future of the Australian American Alliance look like as the region becomes more contested did as China begins to assert its power more broadly and on the surface level of things as you walk past the Australian Embassy and you look and you see a hundred nee one hundred one hears of match up you know things are all good. We share a lot of values which are a lot of history together but what John and I really want to focus on and we hope that the policy debate is evolving evolving in this direction is simply affirming that we have a long history together that we love each other. A lot is insufficient in the current environment and in the environment that were heading into because as much as we love each other. We need to be honest that we're also frustrated by each other at this point. We're still close allies but the reasons for the frustration are different and John's just articulate. I think in a very artful way that oftentimes Cambra is frustrated about not having clarity in what Washington's objective is what the strategy is is trying to pull together and what resources it's going to put out the problem because frankly although seem inconsistent these days and from Washington's ends perspective of Washington seems challenged if not upset by the fact that Australia seems to now be paying closer attention to the south or the western Stern Pacific its own backyard. Although it had seemingly taken its eye off the ball over the past decade. seems upset that Australia is oftentimes in official circles quite hesitant to call out. Chinese efforts and pressures in the region by name and frankly seems upset that Australia doesn't seem to be taking king decisive moves to lessen. It's economic dependence on Chinese trade so the argument that we see evolving that were trying to help along the margins here is if we just talk about everything that's good. We're not going to evolve but frankly they're areas where we can work together and deepen our cooperation but there are other areas where our interests don't don't lineup perfectly and we have to begin to figure out in a newly contested environment how we take actions that don't work at cross purposes Charlie. Let me draw you out on that luder point but before I do I should note that we're sitting down having this conversation on the eve of Prime Minister Scott Morrison's visit visit to Washington DC where he's going to be hosted by. The president for a state visit in podcast is going to come out after the visit concluded so we're not sure what's going going to happen but I like to get a sense from you as to work or the issues where the United States and Australia would be best served served by understanding they have different interests in are going to have to manage those differences what in particular are likely to be sorted the sticking points or the inflammatory points in US Australian relations well. There are a bunch and what we tried to do is make some recommendations into broad categories stories but let me a hone down and get a little bit more specific here because we've already been spending a fair amount of the time on economic interests because that's where seemingly there's the most divergence again on the security perspective on the Defense Perspective on the intelligence sharing perspective because we are so closely aligned we anticipated they'll be deeper coordination shen and further efforts to kind of work together but it's particularly on the economic front were there seems to be a divergence so one of the things that we advocate advocate here and that we already see both countries moving towards is what we're in the midst of seeing is a profound shift in how both countries deal with work quid conduct diplomatic no less ommercial relations with the People's Republic of China but it's going to look different for the United States than it does for Australia so in the United States. You're now seeing the beginning of a conversation. Actually I'd say we're even past the beginning but not that far past about what the coupling looks like how we begin to disentangle certain sectors of the American and Chinese economy which are so interwoven together and as far as I can read it at least looking up at the US from down under the debate is now evolving too because it's already happening. Are we going to do this smartly or dumbly and which sectors are going to be pulled apart and which actors make sense to pull apart and which makes no problem from a security perspective for the United States in China to continue trading with each other. That's from the American perspective from the Australian perspective. It's a different conversation sation. The conversation tends to be a diversification and push to diversify commercial trading partner so couple months ago when I was outlining all the different goods that Australia cells to China. It's important to note that almost every single one of those goods are fungible commodities that can be sold on a global market and if thirty thirty three percent seems to be too much too many Australians particularly many policymakers because it gives perhaps Beijing too much leverage average over independent sovereign political decisions the question and the thrust has to be how do you diversify trading partners. That's just smart economic policy so one the things that we've seen evolve out of Australia is there are other emerging markets certainly Southeast Asia certainly India so there's been a push to begin to you think through what can the government do to encourage private industry to begin diversifying simply from political risk perspective who it trades as with other partners there are out there but of course in a market capitalistic system. The government can't just say an hope that businesses do so. That's where the debate is heading to at this point John Lemme ask you what are the issues in. US Australian relations that you particularly worry about about that may prove to be not bridgeable that may actually get a bigger rather than smaller over time even if diplomats imagine both sides spent a lot of time talking to one I would mention to one as a matter of process in one is a metal substance. The Meta process is that Australia Korea is always afraid of taking forward leaning action with United States and then subsequently being abandoned body not states and if that occurs then and we sort of left on our own to deal with these giant coal China so as I mentioned the stray has taken very forward leaning positions on foreign interference and five Ajay Technologies Australia's the first country explicitly ban hallway from Alpha Rolla but when it comes to broader strategic issues so for example the forming coming of freedom of navigation operations around Chinese Artificial Orleans Australia has far lane reluctant to do so and hasn't done so because we are not quite what shore in five years time what the policy if United States will be not with respect to phone but we're respect to its broad strategic relationship with China so the first issue is a processing way. It's a fear of abandonment and a lack of information as to what makes administration will do which prevents us from acting more decisively now then some this would like issue substance is the economics and the relevancy of the striding economic relationship with China as it stands. Is that our WOAH businesses have not suffered in the same way as American businesses. We haven't really head intellectual property stolen to the same extent in fact lack of reform in the Chinese domestic economy has been quite good for Stralia. If if the secret be known the locker reform in China has led to excess capacity exists production excess excess fixed investment and that is perfect for Australia's commodity based export economy. What I'm trying to get at is that the United States is currently gently prosecuting these economic China because it's are losing out against China way in principal instructor in principle except the reasons Wadi Americans are unhappy and water problems with the system but at the same time we are probably did one of the main beneficiaries of the way to Chinese Political Konomi structured and that's not going to change suddenly Charles is correct to say that we are now entering the conversation that diversification in economic circles but the reality is that we doing quite quite well from the way China has structured its economy and until that changes and that will a medium long term thing allow businesses will still find China to be a very attractive economy and that conversation between Australia and United States is still going to be a very awkward conversation John. At least me to ask you the question of how worried you are about. US Australian relations because you've just laid out this procedural problem that could bubble up but you've also laid out a substantive one on that subsequent one. If I understood you correctly if president trump succeeds at his efforts to get China to change the way it does business that will be at least in in the short term bad news for Australia which could potentially feed into complaints. Australians have about uncertainty about US behavior about sort taking a position and seeing Washington change its mind but I also have to wonder how much of concern in Australia is specific to this administration to the trump administration ministration as you know the trump administration president trump got off to a bad start with the then Australian Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull back in twenty twenty seventeen. Do we see any evidence that Australians are souring on the United States is the partner if you look at the polling in instructing context to support for the alliance and the reception of the United States is still extremely positive. It is true that perception of the trump administration in prison prison in particular is very directly from Australia but that occurs from time to time so it said that aspect of perception or polling on overly worried about what I am worried about is that the United States on the current administration has been more forward leaning on issues that we care about with respect to China. It has tried to change trains trains through disruption now danger disruption of course is that you can disrupting you can change its trends but where it will land after a some moment in time time and so I'll put it this way that we are both more hot. Folders are more nervous we more hopeful because United States is stepping up not just in his administration that as a country to to count aspects of China's behavior but we're more anxious because as the United States takes on a more disruptive posture the consequences for a small country lock Ustralia is potentially more serious and negative the American policy east on executed will and thought through Charlie. Let me give you the last word I wonder how worried are you about the future of US Australian relationship. Should we be worried that are mateship may soon be coming to an end. I think if we don't think about it were in for for a rocky road and I think that oftentimes in Washington Australia is seen as such a close ally so closely aligned with the United States there are maidstone under that. We don't have to think very much about them and I think that's a grave mistake because as I said at the beginning of our chat jim the debate is so hot right now not not only about China but also about the United States and how it factors in with China and what it means for Australia so I have to say having spent a lot of time travelling around the Australian all parts of it. I'm not concerned so long as we pay attention to the trends and engage with not only the policymakers Cambre but also the students the business people the university administrators around the country because the stakes are really high for the United it states and if the United States is actually serious about executing a long term strategic competition with China as they say in Australia we need to have as as many on side as possible so I'm not has mystic but more attention needs to be paid and that's more than lip service and that means getting into the details and making short were clear where we agree where we disagree but how we're moving out and execute on that no doubt close up the president's Inbox for this week again. My guests have been Charles Adele in John. Lee Charlie John Senior fellows at the United States Studies Centre at the University of Sydney can get a copy of the report the future of the US the US Australia alliance in an era of great power competition on the website of the United States Studies Centre at the University of Sydney also note that Charlie is the Co author of the lessons of tragedy statecraft and world door Charleen John. Thanks for joining me my pleasure. Thanks very much Jim. Please subscribe to the presence inbox and apple podcasts podcasts spotify or wherever you listen in Levers Review they help us get noticed improved the show opinions expressed in the president's inbox or so those are the host or guests not see a far which takes no institutional positions. Today's episode was produced by Zoe. Call is with senior producer Jeremy Sherlock Alison cozy and Anthony Libary recording inge nears special. Thanks wrote to Margaret Gach for assistance this is Jim Lens Egg. Thanks list

Australia China United States China Australia Jim Lindsey Charleen John Charles Adele Washington partner China China United States Studies Centre Asia Lee Charlie John University of Sydney John Beijing South China Sea president
NPR News: 01-30-2020 7PM ET

NPR News Now

04:39 min | 7 months ago

NPR News: 01-30-2020 7PM ET

"Live from NPR news in Washington. I'm Jack Speer. Senators are continuing to pepper president. Donald Trump's lawyers and house house Democrats today. What is expected to be the final day of questioning for lawmakers vote on whether to allow witnesses and documents president trump senate impeachment trial the vote could well end in an abrupt end? To proceedings of the call for a vote on acquittals then made whatever Democrats have argued strenuously against that idea saying it would not represent a fair trial. Bill that includes Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer who believes some of his. Republican colleagues are still undecided impeachment dictates affair trial we would forever give up the right. Ah One of the last checks on an overreaching president who thinks he can do anything he wants. If you can't get witnesses and documents and you know no I think some of them are weighing one president trump's lawyers Alan Dershowitz offered a somewhat surprising defense. Basically sang that if a president takes action to boost his election prospects that does not represent an impeachable offense Dershowitz now says those remarks were misinterpreted president trump. Meanwhile heading to Iowa to hold a political rally this evening was NPR's Scott detro- reports from Des Moines. The President is trying to counter program too big political stories president. Trump's rally comes as the Senate prepares to vote on whether to allow witnesses says at his impeachment trial and then whether or not to acquit him onto articles of impeachment. Right now trump looks set to prevail on both issues. He's also arriving in Iowa ahead of a fiercely contested and close race. In the Democratic caucuses. Republicans will be caucusing Monday night. To trump has two opponents former Massachusetts Governor Bill Weld twelve and former congressman. Joe Walsh but as the impeachment trial shows trump has consolidated support in the GOP and he's expected to easily win the caucuses Scott detro- NPR News Des Moines Boeing's largest supplier spirit aerosystems as it was slowly resumed production of the seven. Thirty seven. Max Ahead of the jets returned to service remember station Cam. UW Najah four reports. The announcement comes not long after a recent layoff announcement by the Kansas based company. Spirit aerosystems halted production on the seven. Thirty seven Kevin Max. Earlier this month the company built about seventy percent of the plane at its Wichita plant with the program. Accounting for about half of the company's annual revenue spirit expects to deliver for two hundred. Sixteen planes to Boeing this year. But it's not clear what the return to production will mean for the almost three thousand workers laid off by the supplier this month at its peak the company was was delivering about six hundred planes a year a level. It doesn't expect to reach again until late. Twenty twenty to the seven thirty seven has been grounded since last March following. Two fatal Edel crashes Boeing says it expects to have the Max back in service this summer for NPR news. I'm Nettie if oh in Wichita on Wall Street. Stocks moved lower earlier in the day but then recovered covered near the end of the trading session. The Dow up one hundred and twenty four points today the Nasdaq was up. Twenty three points this is. NPR accidentally killing migratory. Birds would no longer be a criminal act under a new and controversial proposal from the trump administration. NPR's Nathan reports reports. The rule would weaken the century old Migratory Bird Treaty Act for most of the less century if a company or individual accidentally killed or injured a migratory bird they could still you'll be penalized by the US fish and wildlife service so if migrating birds hit a wind turbine over poisoned in a mining. Wastewater pit the industry owning said Turban or pit was is culpable not anymore in two thousand seventeen. The Interior Department wrote a legal opinion saying that. An industry or individual should only be penalized if they intentionally attention injured or killed birds. The trump administration is now moving forward with a proposal to make that the rule saying it will provide regulatory certainty to stakeholders while life. Groups are furious about the proposal and are promising to fight the rule as it makes its way through the regulatory process Nathan. NPR News Lewis. Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross taking a somewhat interesting position in terms of a virus outbreak the slaughter of the affected China so far though some cases have turned up in the US and other countries raw saying today corona virus outbreak could offer an unexpected benefit to the US economy namely that some American manufacturing firms that have moved to China might now decided to return to the US. Ross said while he didn't WanNA quote talk about a victory lap over a very unfortunate very malignant disease. He said the fact is it does give businesses yet another thing to consider as they look at their our business models crude oil futures prices lower today down nineteen cents a barrel to fifty to fourteen a barrel. I'm Jack Speer N._P._R.. News in Washington.

NPR Donald Trump president Spirit aerosystems Jack Speer US Senate Washington Wichita Iowa Alan Dershowitz Scott detro NPR Twenty twenty Kevin Max Wilbur Ross Governor Bill Weld Chuck Schumer Des Moines
Episode 24: Edel Rodriguez is Stress-Testing Democracy

The Trip

1:04:18 hr | 1 year ago

Episode 24: Edel Rodriguez is Stress-Testing Democracy

"You've heard about away luggage before how it was founded by two friends from New York who found themselves at JFK with dead phones delayed flights and one bright idea luggage with power. Now. I'm impressed by that story because I make no friends at JFK. I am a lone wolf in the terminal just some headphones over the year playing some very angry Puerto Rican battle rap that signals that I'm there to make a flight not to make a friend. So I really don't like huddling around that one outlet that everyone sits next to my lightweight high-quality awake. Carry on gives me my freedom because I can charge up. My battle rap loaded smartphone on the suitcase itself five times over if I need to join me just not too close now by getting your own awake. Carry on for twenty dollars office who case visit away travel dot com. Backslash the trip and use promo code the trip during checkout again for twenty. Dollars office suitcase visit away travel dot com. Backslash the trip and use promo code the trip during checkout. Only I can do this kind of stuff that I'm thinking about because of my background and history I can tie the stories together. I know what the ship was. And I can see how this can become one. Slowly, you've seen this man's illustrations on the cover of time magazine or on there should be. Whereas I saw the original women's March in DC on signs wherever the Trump phobic meat and rally his depictions of the forty fifth president as an ISIS executioner, a clansman were just a melting orange mess. Do exactly what he intended. They provoke the inform. They communicate the loud perils of our moment. Wordlessly when I started this show with Dana year ago. I knew exactly who I wanted to get to design our logo Adele Rodriguez. I was thrilled. He said yes back then. And I'm even happier. Now that I got him in our studio in Brooklyn to drink a bunch of bullshit coconut. Waters and to talk about how his childhood in Cuba prepared him for becoming as fast company is called him. The illustrator in chief this is Nathan Thornburgh. And you're listening to the trip drinking with exceptional people around the world. Welcome del Rodriguez. Thanks great to be here. We're recording this today from from the roads and kingdoms like our our studio in Dumbo Brooklyn. So I met you on the sidewalk out front to go to the Bodega downstairs. So I wanted to find a drink with meaning. Part of the idea of this show like and you're not drinking, and I'm not drinking alcohol because of this dry January that feels like dry millennium. And you're not drinking. So let's have some non alcoholic stuff. Unfortunately, it's like it's a Bodega. But it's like a pretty cheap Odinga, you know, like they've they've upgraded for the, you know, the agency and marketeering crowd that's moving into Dumbo Brooklyn. So we went down and got the thing that struck me as an you as most resonant with some of the stuff and talk about particularly about Cuba. Is it turns out they got a lot of coconut in the in. The upscale Bodega. It's just it's different kinds of coconut water. Yeah. It used to be just one one. Now that is colored. It's crazy. I I can remember a time growing up in south Florida, even where there was no coconut water like in bottles. None, you know. Yeah. You know, I have my my uncle Louie's climb up coconut trees and throw them down to people and had them up. And that's how we drank even in Miami. Yeah. Even in Miami. So down in key west there. There was a time that I could get get up at a palm tree. And I remember some point like having not been home for a long time or something where I tried. And it's so hard. Oh my God. Yeah. Like, the things you have to do with the insoles and your knees to like kind of. And then you've got the little light belt. You know? You know, like since you're way up and I just like a lost it. Yeah. I don't think I've ever been able to. I usually had like the one guy in the crew. Right now. When like, hey, you're the guy got there you knock them down. I was always much more partial to tamarins because tamarind trees are like they got the low branch and their wide, and you can climb up and you can actually eat them. Just coconuts death man so much so much danger. And now, of course, like. Horribly like we just have to pay guys calm cut the coconuts down. It was like you gotta turn in your tropical card at that point. So anyway, we have we're going to do a blind taste test of the four ridiculous coconut waters that we found in our upscale but dig downstairs, I've got a lot of doubts about this entire market. Place, but we're gonna we're gonna check it out because we have for the first time in the show in studio, a legit modified Caribbean. Yeah. I know what coconut water tastes like. And that's about it. That's all. I know. Right. I think we're all gonna learn a lot a lot together. Adele rodriguez. Born in Cuba here to taste Brooklyn's. Finest bullshit coconut waters on the trip. All right. So we've got coconut water number one. All right. Let's see. They sing notes them. Tastes at first. It started tasting water, then it tasted like sugar after that. But it could be coconut water was. So this is the thing about coconut. And coconut milk. Coconut water? Coconut meat lighten is just not as sweet as people, right? Like want it to be, you know, especially if all you've ever had like a I don't know what's that like candy bar with coconut. And it's like the almond joy or some crap Cuba. They used to you know, bring like four or five coconuts into my mom's backyard in an hacked into pieces and take the cook meat out and it make Gokul today handle desert. You know, right. I love that. Whenever whenever I mean. That's how we had desert down there. It was it. He didn't go to the store and buy, you know, desert. You just whoever should up with something you cut it up, and you started tossing sugar into that. And you cook it, and and but the the coach. Desert took like a whole day to to do, you know? Scratch Nicholson it off and taking the meat out. And all that stuff. Yeah. Well, that is that is certainly something. I remember my time living in Cuba's. I mean sugar is like a national dish. It's a Nash staple ingredient right sugar and coffee ruling things you get. Yeah. You rash? Thanks, Ed sugar to everything. And yeah, you take any any fruit? You take the shell of any fruit in your ad sugar. And you boil it, and then you've got deserve basically a, right. Well, that's that's it. Let's go number two. Okay. No. Weird. That's a big note yet. It's like that's like what is that flat or something? It's actually tastes like water water with a little bit of a coconut flavor in it in my opinion. Like, somebody got the big dropper out and just drops them. Yeah. At least the first one had a little bit more depth. Kimberly seeing this. All right. Let's let's move onto three which I think is going to give me something a little different Ramsey. This is this is not a good color known colleagues tough colors. Like, yeah. It's it's like check your Ps talk to your doctor. You know? Let's horrible. Oh is this duck something in there? I don't know. Call your doctor. Put some vegetables. Yeah. Yeah. That's right. It tastes like they'd like, no. I'm not even gonna try that again through some rude Abega. Number four. Oh, it's not looking good already. So number four looks like a I would say to put it in to put it in a Caribbean context. Looks like a salt pond that you would have had in key west, that's filled with tadpoles. Yeah. There's little green things in it. Yep. I'm assuming it. There's there's a reason for that. You're gonna like this. I have to drink it yard you. It's fun. What is that? It's like kinda salty I'm sticking with number one. It's a little salty in in. A little bit. Yeah. I mean, it's got a little bit of milk flavor to it or something. Well, yeah. It's like it was like coconut water for people who wish they were drinking some kind of bubbled. Yeah. Exactly milk tea with with chewy crap minute. We're now going to have our producer unlocked. This double-blind for us. Right now. Holding in my hands. The key. Let's start with the one that. I mean, really we should just say what's the grossest? I think the one the floaters, right? I mean, that's this one was pretty bad. Yeah. Number three color Abed urine. But. By the way, I'm not looking for a sponsored from any of these coconut water. So. I think men look at that look different. They look. Yeah. Right. I mean, one of them super rusty and the other one we never drink any either. So the gross. I would have to say that's pretty gross. If you it's pretty rough. Yeah. Little green things in your in. Your coconut water is weird. That one would be what I hope to God. Okay. So let's start with that. It's called skinny cocoa. Something nirvana which is hiding underneath the three dollar price tag. Can you cook taste nirvana? Oh, wow. Tastes nirvana. And then it's got tie basil seeds. He imprint sees a SuperFood. It's just like this is just like they're just hunting for suckers SuperFood, and my three dollar tiny bottle of strange milky, something something. All right. What's the one that looks like a bad urine test? The the the that one is called harmless coconut water if you're living part of the healthy harmless coconut water lifestyle. This is by the way, eight fluid ounces for four dollars. Then wouldn't you want your more locally sourced? Also, look at the quantity for four dollars that that look at the size of this thing. Yeah, that's one chug. Basically, it's it's I don't know what's about two inches wide by three four inches tall. But that's a virtuous cycle where they don't give you a lot of it to drink, and you don't wanna drink a lot. That's right. Number two. Which was our least defensive not winter was called pure Brazilian. Coconut water look at that. Yeah. So we figure it out when it was actually the best one is the one that's most hyped by Ranna. That's true. So our number one choice vita. Coco coconut water, which actually maybe we should look for sponsors has not only is this the one that we decided tasted not quite like coconut. But, but the least work the least the least bad Varian, and it was three dollars and fifty cents for for a lot a lot of cofer louder. So that's good. All right. Hit me even more that. Let's let's do this interview with some rich creamy, let's add some room to that energy, boosting come back in February. And we'll just go right for the rum and skip the rest. Yeah. It's pretty good. Yeah. I can drink like I can drink a good few chugs that I can't touch. The other stuff actually won it away from me here. Dump it on the floor of the video here. And there is water by the way, if if we've done too much trauma to your palate. A word from MAC Weldon MAC Wellman believes in smart design, premium fabrics, and simple shopping. Take a spin around. They're easy to use website. And you'll get that sweet Naomi Klein, no logo vibe just a lot of high quality basics that look good on the page and work well in real life. Mac Walden is a premium man's essential brand. And they believe that there's will be the most comfortable underwear socks shirts. Undershirts. Hoodies sweatpants and more that you will ever wear. That's why they offer you this guarantee. If you do not like your first pair, you can keep it, and they will still refund you no questions asked for twenty percent off your first order. Visit MAC Weldon dot com and enter promo code the trip at checkout. That's MAC Weldon dot com promo code the trip. So del you, and I know each other because we worked at time magazine for a few years, actually. And I mean, I remember, obviously, you were you were an art director there, you were kind of on the other. There's not a big wall. But there's kind of a wall between writer people reporters like me and the art crew would kind of make our stories look good. And I remember you. You know, just being really pleasant. It's smart to work with. I didn't really know like the the like full Adele lay you know. And I think a couple of things one there's this whole backstory, which was super fascinating. And and felt very relevant to kind of you know, where I'm from part of the world down in the Florida Keys. And then also just you know, what you've become the ability to kind of to do the work that you do now is not something. I mean, you were already you had your side hustles when you were in time your books and everything, but it's just kind of crazy to think that like, you know, some co workers I feel this way about caroliina Miranda to who I'd worked with and Tana hoc- coats like these people who we worked with at time, and we were all kind of making a magazine together. But like sound like superstars, you know. It's been really cool to see them just like go and get you know, do their thing afterwards. Anyway. That's I mean, that's kind of how I feel about the shit that I've seen you do after time has really blown me away. Yeah. And I I think having worked that many years at time magazine, I ended up working there thirteen years in it. It helped focus what I was trying to say, focus, my work. I started understanding. You know, I was designing coverage for international editions, and so small things like cropping background color. No, background color. Lot of things about impact that that. I learned as as we made things as I worked with other colleagues, and they would show me, you know, this works does, you know, we would do maybe one week for especially when the the US covers they might do ten covers ten options, and you kind of start seeing the differences, what covers communicate and also the combination of headline to image and back and forth. And so I learned a lot about about communicating to to people. And I think that's definitely helped my work. Once I left the magazine. Let's go. Let's go to that that backstory part. So explain what the the Mariel boatlift was in like how you have. That's part of your story. The Mariel boatlift took place in nineteen eighty in Cuba and there had been about. I mean in nineteen eighty was already twenty years after the revolution. And the seventies was was it started off welling Hugo than towards the end. It's a lot of the pressures tried to building up from people that the they weren't liking the government. They they weren't like Belushi was turning out. So in actually in April of nineteen eighty a a group of people took over a bus and crashed it into the Peruvian embassy in Havana, and they sought asylum in the Peruvian embassy as soon as the gates were crashed tens of thousands of people went into the previous embassy, and at that point Castro suggesting thought the idea of invading the embassy in the proven embassy ambassador said no, this is proven soil you net coming in here. So the question is how do you get rid of? You know, how was. Castro going to get these people off the island, whatever. And then in the middle of all that he he just one of these fits of anger said anyone that wants to leave? This doesn't like it here. We're all gum. We don't want. You anyways, get out is that where the the phrase gusanos like your worm. And he started giving speeches against people that wanted to leave the country. But at the same time saying if you're gonna leave we don't, you know, we don't care you can leave when I'd do anything to told the people in the United States to come get their family members. So as soon as the people in the US got that go ahead because before that you would get shot if you showed up in Cuba to get your family, or if he tries to leave all of a sudden people started going down to key west and and leasing boats, and my family were we were sort of quietly trying to leave through Spain. You know, getting a we were we had our passports and pictures taken to to get passports to to go to Spain. And then be there for years and then eventually come to the United States. You had a plan and move. We had a plan that my dad had been working on for a while. How old were you? I was at the time was eight but pretty much. I think since it was about five my dad just said, I don't want. I don't want my kids growing up in this country because he was he was seeing what was happening to my sister. My sister was six years older than me. So she was eleven or twelve and they were starting to send her to education only student education government, education, schools and work camps. They would take them from the family, you know, forty five days at a time. And then later on it was like quick Gumbo, which is the school in the camp, which you just you weren't in your town anymore with your family, you you were working to fields from about six or seven in the morning till one, and then you would go to school after that. So is this sort of indoctrination of children for for for the party? And and your dad was photography, right. He was a news guy. My my my dad was he was he was a little bit of everything. Always photographer. He was the town photographer. So he was taking fifteens, and weddings, and portrait's and things like that. But that's what it came at the end before that he was a chauffeur. He he worked at he managed some of the restaurants, the government restaurants, and he was doing just a lot of things he was doing a lot of black marketing and search things. Well, it's also that's a that's very Cuban thing. Everybody does the hustle is. But but the the sort of the tension came tank was coming to a head because everybody was watching what he was doing or the CDR people the committee people are watching what he was doing. And and he he got a sense, and for, you know, actual threats at some point. So by that by the time that the that the Marie L. The announcement was made my dad was in his head. I have to get out of here as soon as possible because if not he was going to go to jail. Yeah. So they they called no called my aunt. And the funny thing was back then in Cuba. You had to do everything kind of in a weird code, even when you went to the phone stations. You didn't have a phone at home. You have to go to stationed in another city, and it was kind of things like how's it going, and he's anything happening? And then my aunt went would say we have plans in the works. Whatever. So this sort of back and forth and Honduras taking off because you're talking, you know, you see the operative over there listening to everybody's conversations just right and shit down. Yeah. So so yeah. At that time there was a plan right in the middle of April April lose about April twentieth. My aunt was gonna come visit us, you know, the the flights had started were our family can come visit and my aunts. And I I'll we'll talk when I arrive tomorrow, you know. And then when she when he went to pick her up at the airport. He he said she said I'll have a surprise for you, and my dad's that call you got us the money for the passport to go to Spain. And she said, no, I got a boot on the way. What? Yeah, I got a boat and action here, and we we have a list of twenty seven people that we want to take out of the country. And we gotta go warned everybody tonight. We gotta get them set. So that when the military shows up at the at their houses, they're ready to say, yes, I want to leave and get all the good things ready. So that night they went from house to house town to town. We were spread over three or four times telling all family members, what was happening in. What what was happening was as she got on the plane to come to Cuba. My her her sons were had gone down to key west. And they were they found to Jamaican guys shrimpers and said we want to go pick up our family and Cuba can can release your boat. I think they pay them something like ten thousand bucks or something. And the the the Jamaicans are like, yeah. Let's do it. So you know, how key west is. I do a lot of. Like. Yeah. Man. Whatever. So I mean, they were already everybody was already. I don't know about those guys, but everybody was already running drugs. Yeah. Sure. Up with ten grand to really want me to do my vote. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So everybody down there is just doing things for whatever is a short hustle or whatever. And they thought it was like go to Cuba. You know? They I think they could get you about eight hours or something. Yeah. Eight or nine hours, and they thought it was go there and pick up everybody and come back home in a day or and it's just became this long journey for the for the two guys. But does into all the twenty-seven we're based in governmental or no, no, I actually of all the twenty seven my family was the only one in Gubbio. Okay. They were for others in town called less. Allude they were you know, it became a few families aunts. And then they partnered up with another guy who who had other family members. And that her the grandparents are Osmond. So it, oh they were in Guido, which is another town. Yeah. So this all just started, you know, accumulating. And I it ended up being that number. And what was what was your memory of it? I mean, you're eight turning on nine. I remember that the before my mom told me we're going to go on the trip to you know, to see your family in America, you need to give away your things. Oh, no. I remember that pick something pick whatever is important to you can give it to them. And I remember just looking around like what what's important to me. And I had a little a couple of fish. And I and I took the fish. I give them over to my best friend who's ladies. And I said I'm going to go on a on a trip. I didn't know when I go back come back, and you take care of my fish. And that that's what I remember. They they didn't give me specific. Because what they thought is. They wanted life to go on as normal, right? Because we knew something was about to happen. We we didn't know when if you gave a tell you something was happening that you were about to leave the country, the the CDR people on the block would would arrange for a fine. Goodbye that say, so they would bring in trucks or bring in trucks to people's houses to either beat them up through, you know, vegetables eggs, you know, whatever at the house sh- shame you and call you names there were doing it's called the knock to that. Julia, which is reputation act on anybody that wanted to leave the country. So my my parents didn't tell me because they thought I would go to school and tell my teacher. I it's it's basically nineteen Eighty-four. You know, everybody's just looking out looking at each other wondering who's on what side basically rate and how they can read them out for favors. Yeah. Yeah. It was. So so it was kind of left like that. And I think they took my sister out of school and just said that she was sick. And then everybody didn't even tell their parents. You know, my dad didn't tell his parents, you know, because you know, my parents had this calculation to hold time what and I've interviewed. You know, recently because I'm working on a book about this and their calculation was you know, what point does this shit? Go. Go bad. Yeah. And if it goes bad what's going to happen to our lives that was the big risk, which I didn't didn't really think about that, you know, because everything turned out so great, right? But that's thing for an eight year old nine year old. Grab. Yeah. But every you know in my life that you know, we had a lot of complications. And but but at the end, we arrived here and everything was fine. That the what could have happened was that something could have gone wrong. And then you had to stay in Cuba and the rest of your life would have been misery marked as. Yeah. And as an anti refer revolutionary, right? My sister would never be able to study. I wouldn't be able to study my parents would be fired from any job, whatever. So which which I've met, you know on a recent trip that I went to Cuba. I went and in and visited my third grade teacher, which I every time I've gone back. I go see her. Yeah. That and I love this is my last teacher, and I go see her in the last trip. I went I was saying goodbye. And I noticed there were like four school desks in her living room. And I I said teacher, what are you school to in here? It's going on here. Shows I teach her and I was like why why don't you teach at the school and she's like, Chico. You don't know what happened to me? I said, no, I don't know what happened is. I was supposed to leave maryelle, you know. And I went all the way to to the boat. I board my boat and then the buses arrived with prisoners and the boat captain refused to take prisoners to America. Book said, I'm not I'm not doing that. I'm not taking prisoners to the US. And the Lieutenant said, you know, if you don't take these prisoners, you're not taking anybody and and pulled off all the family members and all the civilians in one of them was my teacher pulled off the boat, no center back to my town, where they proceeded to you know, beat her up, and and and throw eggs at her and all that stuff. She got fired from being my from being the teacher in the elementary school, and she was never able to to teach again. So it was about thirty five years later. That I saw her and the way she was making a living was was teaching some private classes at her house because she was never she was never able to teach for the state again to him. And I think that something that Americans take for granted this idea that there's one employer, you know. Yeah. That's the problem with Cuba. Whenever I I've had arguments with sort of left leaning communist people that they they they say that the same things happen in this country. Let's say, you know, if you have you can be at hunter college, and you piss someone off you can ever work there again. Yeah. But then you have Columbia, and you have you know, Pratt, and you have SBA you can go somewhere else. Right. When you live the place where you piss off one the only employer, which is what communism is basically. That's it. You're marked for life. You can you will never have another life in that place again. And that's why a lot of people end up escaping, or, you know, for example, going to Mexico and trying to cross the border because their life in Cuba's over they spoke out against the government. Right. They did something your life is is ruined. And you, and you don't always know when it's coming or where it's coming. No. No. No. No. No. Yeah. And then there's you know, hundreds of cases, I everyone in my in my family has. Has a story and tell that, you know, the the boatlift on the other side, you know, from key west, and I was five I think when it happened. I have no memories of it. But it's funny. You know, it's funny from the key west side because you'll talk to people and if the number of people who claim to have been captains or crew in the Mariel boatlift, we're actually there. It would have been our motto like five hundred thousand votes, you know, it's like the legend of it kind of has grown in the you know, because it was this incredible. I mean, it was it was an army of civilian a navy of civilian boats that went to go get everybody. Yeah. It went on for about six months, and the and the in the end, it was about one hundred twenty five thousand people that finally came you know, I remember the night. We laughed what was going on. My parents what they had done is is my parents are really nice people, and they started giving away their things to neighbors and all sorts of stuff. And then when we're about to they seal up your house in the you know, it's like a big deal that says property of the state at cetera. And just in case you were wondering who runs shit. And they take your car your house everything. So they they sealed up the house, and then the tenant came over to, you know, no one's leaving this place. Where's where's all this stuff? And he actually had a list of all our all our things like this is going to be my, and apparently, they you know, they had had someone in our house at some point looking at everything we owned just like spy or. Yeah. My my dad figured out who it was. Yeah. Yeah. And it's yet another fun part of the dictatorships. Yes. Someone that gets someone who is reading you like a friend that came over to the house join interest in his cameras, and he was really showing interest in in in writing it down. So so he shut up with the list. And you know, my mom said we gave it away their friends and like well get it back in here. So when you know, I like eleven o'clock at night, everyone had to go to other people's houses to bring our our our know sewing machine television, whatever back into the house, and then we were taking a few processing centers. Eventually, we're taking a place called L mosquito, which was a military base. And then we were in that base for about six days. And this was the start of the Mariel boatlift. So there were no amenities. There was nothing we didn't even have tents or anything. We're just sleeping under pine trees. And that went on for five or six. Days. They you know, they were there. There were no food. It was basically like a detention camp, you know, situation that must have been pretty nerve wracking because you don't you're not sure what's at the end of that exact process, right? And from talking to my dad, I think my dad lost about fifteen pounds there. Because there was even while we were there. They were pulling people out taking them to their workplace beating them up having having the workplace beat them up. And then bring them back into the camp. They were doing this sort of psychological torture. And and my dad just was freaking out. My dad was like why is this taking so long? Why are we leaving? Or you know, what are they going to do with us while we're here? Can they cancelled us at any time? You don't wanna be any administrative situation in Cuba? With her with Cuban military, people managing your handling anything. It's a disaster. No one's in control. You don't know what's going on. And they're lying and all sorts of stuff. So yeah, it was it was that that camping a lot of stories that happened there. And then eventually we were taken to to our our boat. And and that's where we met. My my cousins who were waiting there. It was shrimp with lakeside. Nets gig, sixty eight foot, shrimp decide and that's all that stuff. And the, you know, every took days and days, and my the the two Jamaican guy says we're not leaving whether your family is what they kept telling my my cousins, we're not leaving. We came here to get your family. We're not leaving without them. That's awesome. And you know, that was it we boarded the boat around six or seven PM stayed on it for for a few hours. And then eventually we took off as a flotilla. About fifteen bullets. I think it was a line getting out of the harbor, and then we arrived next morning around seven in the morning and key west. That's crazy. I mean, and that's like, you know, that's what I'm getting up to go to kindergarten or something on the island. Right. I mean, it's it's, and that's you know, again, that's I feel like that part of history is kind of passed by. And then the MO, you know, in in on the island of key west, actually, the fever kind of passed to because most everybody left town like and pretty went up to Miami. And you know, and and parts further north we had a few kids who stayed, but you know, key west Cuban populations. They're like the eighteen hundreds queue. I think we stayed for about a day at the processing center there. And am I mean, the the reason I've been thinking about lately is is the difference from the experience that I had to seeing what these, you know, cost Rican? And I'm sorry. A Honduran Guatemalan kids are getting now the caravan. Yeah, we we were we were kept together as a family the whole time. We were welcomed. Well, you know, like a very big welcome to America. We're giving so much food. I my first apple we were giving little packages of everything like, you know, toothbrush toothpaste. You know, I landed in the US thinking. Wow, this is so clean. And there's so much stuff here there are there. You know, a pile of toys that would let us as many toys as we wanted which I never had in my life. You know? So it was you really did get a sense, you know, this idea that America's wonderful great place that welcomes people and then now I'm seeing this stuff where where the kids are being split and put in cages. And all this shit. And it's not what this country is, you know. And it's like people don't understand when you've been we were we were about seven days of the whole process seven or eight days from the time, we left our house. It'd be him been through. I don't know three or four processing centers at attention. All this stuff. I had I was wearing the same clothes for seven or eight days Ray, the same pants and the same shirt because they they told us they told us, you know, you don't need to bring any clothes or food. You're you you're gonna get right on the boat. If anybody ever tells you that goes back to the lies, you were talking about anybody ever tells you you're going to get right on the vote don't believe them ever. And so you land here and you're just exhausted. You know, end the least you can do for people like that is is take care of them right in them. At least humane thing. You can do is take care of them made them feel safe. And hey, you're going to have to go through a detention hearing or lawyer, whatever right? And that will but don't make their life. More imagine coming up. I foot on caravan six weeks. I mean, like the the level is out of control in in. And also, you know, not put to a point on it. But like the language of like, the invasion happening now, like the minor trickle that is coming over the the southern border, you know, like almost historic low levels of people who are crossing the Mexico border compared with one hundred twenty five thousand Cubans like, you know, the Mariel boatlift was a big deal. And it changed a lot of communities, and it brought a lot of like, you know, a lot of just kind of new people and people had to be trained and had to come into this country, and this culture, and nobody was like we can't do this. They said absolutely this like, I mean, maybe some people were. But like generally the government stance was like we're going to do this and like ensure enough like human Americans have come here, and like proven, we I the reason the reason it happened. That reason why it was probably allow. I mean, I I really did feel at that time that American people at that time were much more welcoming and sort of, you know, not as selfish little bit more giving an understanding. But I think the main reason for that was the Cold War, Brian k we were in this life or death struggle with communism or the Soviets and keep it was part of that. And anything that shamed. Cuba or anything that shamed. The Russians like look at these people. They're leaving right Cuba. It's not an ideal place. They're coming to us, then we'll take them. So in that case that was okay. Right. And you have to like interrogate a lot of those things too about, you know, if if you were from Haiti this would be a different conversation. Right, right. They they were not allowed to come on mass. And welcome. Yeah. But I I think the coupon always remained is this special place because we had because of the communism issue. I that's what I I it was it was a way to just kind of. Rub it in to say, hey, these people are leaving communism. Horrible. They're not gonna example, anybody later left. You lynn. Hey, welcome. But by the way, they're not wrong lake Cuban did suck. Like, I I know great to shine a light on it. All right. Well, let me let me ask you about getting going back because you know, all the stuff that happened intervened. I think is also maybe like a, you know, that's what happened with those is they they came here and made a success themselves. And and you know, you came up here you wind up going to school for you went to Pratt. Right. Yeah. And you know, kind of started to have this great career, and you would never gone back to Cuba until what two thousand fourteen Knox. For the first time. I went was ninety ninety three or ninety four with my father. Okay. So I I had gone back a few times. So I went right in the middle of the special period after the Russians left, and I must have. Yes. Broken. That was the first time I went back, and I can't I I'm I've never had that, you know, issues with depression, and when I came back. Was just like for a week. Just leave me alone. Don't talk to me. I just wanna cry my bed and sleep. What did you see? It was you know, basically, the the country that had left was just a disaster people at that time were there was nothing. There was no, you know, people are cooking at a diesel fires in the backyard. You know, like using diesel fuel to to to try to make stove everything was just a disaster. There was no the water anywhere. No electricity. So it was it felt like a war zone. And then when you see your family, and your grandmother and your grandfather living in the middle of all that. And you're walking around and go why this would be so easy to fix. If we just, you know, got some power here that this isn't it it, really. Yeah. It really does upset you. You know? So that was the that was ninety four ninety six was still the same way. When I went back ninety nine a little bit. It started changing mostly back. The next time. It was it was two thousand twelve. And then things were co sort of a little bit more. You know, not not that Ron right on the edge of the from that it was it was it was a little bit more. And then I went in two thousand fourteen and yeah, had a show there in Havana into those fourteen and fifteen and have Anna's is is basically pretty put together capital. You know, there's a lot of good things going on there. Now, a lot of young people that I know that in the art and music so right now, and there's I mean, I had the same interval like I'd I'd gone down there. And we spent some months down there in nineteen ninety nine when I was playing music, and then I didn't go back until two thousand nine and it was just it was of crazy to see the changes that had happened already. You know, not I don't know not not like not new buildings the buildings are the same. But just like better maintain and they'd have like nightclubs stuff, you know, weren't really around and. Ninety nine you know. Yeah. And it's what's strange about it is that a it's not publicized. There's no way to know. What's happening in the fischel way? But once you get to meet people or young young people that go out and do things like there's this thing happening over there is that that that you end up, you know, in Vidarbha in this man mansion type place that they've come Vert it into a club. Right. So everything is a little bit runs of it. Like that, you know. And I know some some friends like, you know, I was talking to Kelvin chose the amazing Cuban singer and songwriters talking about like the need for like a a weekly, you know, that will help people were gigs up because you're right. It's still like it's still the chain. Yes. Elections people talking to people, but you know, one of the things that I valued the reason why I was super psyched when we published some of your photos and writing from one of your return ships. I think in twenty fourteen was just like the perspective that you have on it. Cuts through a lot of bullshit. Because if people I don't know I mean, obviously, you've got you've got a right wing kind of Cuban-American community. And then you've got a lot of people who you know, with like shape post on there. Well, it feels like like the truth is so hard. It'll oh, I see I see, you know, it's, but that's the reality. The reality is that the stories in the middle of associating all these things and people that live in Cuba. They're neither here nor in one-sided of the other. They're just trying to move just pieces around to get what they need and did not be arrested. The not get I mean. And that was right. I mean, I had such a when I was down there as a musician like life was great like I was playing in a band, and by signal was showing up and like we were it was like one of us bliss time. And then when I went back down as a journalist with time like, you know, I got pulled out of the line at immigration and detained at the airport. And like, you know that. I think we had talked about that. But you know, they were they were basically I was bad visa like I was on a tourist visa, and they did the most Cuban shit ever, which is one like you had to customs and border protection. We're like, you know, flirting with the immigration cops. And they were feeding each other like pieces of Bongo straight off a knife. And like, you know, it just like being very like very tropical about how they went through their business. You know, very tropical dictators. Yeah. You know? And then you're kind of like, oh, this is least guys are so cuddly like they're doing a little like dance until they say, no. And then the boss shows up, and they bought us in plain clothes, and he's got a dossier with my like dossier on me like with my covers really like domestic tests. But I'm wondering when that's going to happen. When I go back there. It's it's still in their arsenal. Nikon brings you back to like an interrogation room. I mean, literally the naked light bulb, and he's like, you know, as I'm sure, you know, we're not gonna do anything to you. But this guy, and this guy, and this guy who you know, who were they knew who was in my band back in ninety nine and they were like, you know, something could happen to them. Like, maybe they don't get a visa to go on tour next time. Maybe they, you know, maybe somebody takes computer that, you know, this guy has gotten his apartment, and it was just like, that's you know, like what you're saying this this the way that they used social control is like, yeah. It's dark shit, man. It's they'll use relationships against each other. Yeah. I'm I'm very aware that yeah. And and I'm I'm cautious of what I do or say sometimes there's a lot of family. In their here. I can say and do whatever I want. But if I if some, you know, they get a glimpse of something they can go in effect, my aunt and my cousin or whatever. And it's part of the control that they that. They do you know, and I've said a lot of things in the last few years, and I haven't been back. I don't know if when I go back to, you know, they'll say, so you said this, and this, you know, everything's online nowadays, it seems so selective because they're not like they don't have the brutal efficiency of like an east Germany. Yeah. Fortunately, yeah. But you don't want to be you don't wanna be the guy they you know, pulled out and to to persecute the family members. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, so it's the it's it's that Cuban connection and by the way that that airport which he wrote about also it's it's Jose Martinez airport. Like this episode is dropping on his birthday, you know, like Jose Martinez. The one guy who split both communities like, you know, you're right wingers and Miami love him. Like, I grew up across the street from a big statue of him and his incredible for head. You know, and then the on the island they still celebrate him. But that was like the last guy, they agreed on you know. Yeah. So they have the airport and you go in there. And it's always, you know, I've been in there. Now four or five times, not you know in the past number of years. And it's like you're always wondering what the hell is going to happen. And what you went you your daughters and a bunch of books. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I I I was having a show, and then the show there were about twenty or thirty bucks. Wchs. And they're all in a box. And right when I got into the airport. They're like, okay. What's this their books? What are they about? What's in them? You know, and they started pulling on actually started pulling out an opening my children's books or like cute little characters of penguins and this and that oh there's like Sergio. Yeah. And then there there's just looking through a great children's book series. Adele, did that I read to my kids growing up. But yeah. So they're looking for subject matter, and in the middle of all that they had stopped everything and just pulling out all all my books and then wanting to pull out my posters and see what it was all about. And then some the the the person from the museum shows up with the letter and the letter letters got the right seal, or whatever it is. And they just wrapping everything up. I just love the idea of this, you know, illustrated book about a penguin who scared to swim. Like a revolutionary, and they were like ten people around huddling around looking at a little children's book the fear out. There was any hidden meaning in it full employment. Man. Yeah. So, you know, I it's that that's the way they function. But I I really feel that what we've tried for the last sixty years didn't change anything in Cuba. Yeah. So what what is going to change? It. You have to just basically, I think what what Obama was trying to do is get involved dig in get in there and start changing from the inside and is in leverage. And I and I know that have a lot of friends that are young they're they're they're they're working there. They're being there artists musicians. And they're not leaving the island there dirt trying to change right within. And what do you do you try to support them? If they wanna do a show of your work, you show up and I had to show my work. I didn't take anything out. I shouldn't everything that I would show anywhere else. I had a slide show where it had some images critical of comedy. Zimmer? Jay. And she she looked at it. And she thought about it for a while in the curator, and she just went. Let's go for it. Let's see what happens. Yeah. That's right. Like, we show it. It was an audience two hundred people and everybody was cool about it. And I knew there were no that the the story of Cuba's that everyone's in on this to pity of the whole flakes. Everybody knows. It's ridiculous. That's so true. So there's maybe five percent of you. I asked I asked someone not even going to say what I someone that. I know how many people, you know, are are are with the party. You know, it was like five percent. And they told me it was maybe one percent. Yeah. Like, really? The rest of the country is to them at all. It's all a farce. But there's nothing they can do about it, basically. Although I you know, that doesn't mean that they don't make personal calculations. I remember going back after I got to taint, and they let me go, and I went and found different people who had been in my band, like talk to them. And I was at that point. I was a journalist for time magazine, you know. And I was like, hey, I'm doing this story. Are you comfortable doing this in the singer in my band is a woman I love, you know, I went and made the same approach everybody. Everybody talked me, they took me back home. They, you know, we just was amazing. This woman sat me down in the chair and yelled at me for thirty minutes. If it was like, a speech, it was it was like it was like somebody was listening on the other side of the wall. Really? Yeah. She was like, you know, I know that you and I have a relationship. But this what you're doing. I don't know anything about an imperial press imperialist press, like, I don't know anything about no magazines. But all I know is that people can't come. Cuba until lies about our system. I'm like who you had never. She was never liked that with you all know, what when I was carrying a saxophone like never. So it's like very strange like. Who the audience? Yeah. Yeah. Except that somebody was like listening or. Yeah. I mean, it's just it. My family, and we're talking talking talking and all of a sudden, we get into a car, you know, that was provided by by like the museum or something. And I asked my aunt, Emma. Hey, I saw she's like. Quite an why why and she just goes, I don't know. That that's that was once as you another situation was at the at the museum all the there were three or four peop- office people working on the show, and they're just talking like like in like, we're in the US about anything, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But the government about this, right? And it's like hold on a second. What's going on here? Confused. How is that? You guys are talking about everything you're freaked out. And like, no, we all know each other. We know what is going on. Yeah. It's it's really who you're with and knowing who you can say things to in. Yeah. All these things of and actually that's the first thing that set me off with this whole Trump thing thinking about two years ago. I was I was a some school event or something. And I and I said something about dropping in the person who was with sh no, I don't want you just teacher in, you know, I don't know what these people think of Trump or whatever. And I'm like hold on a second. Like the alarm bells went off. Then once telling me to keep it low in this country. In the United States. I've heard this before that's an old memory for you. And that's what happens over the last two years is I kept coming up on things or hearing things that would go like little trigger my head. Okay. Wait a second. That's an exact same way someone behaved, you know, in Cuba, thirty years ago. I don't like what's happened. I don't like people are talking the way that Trump was doing things like insulting people like like when when when Fidel p call people worms or scum. It's the same thing that Trump does angry and decides to do that. I mean, it's the liberties are there. So I should like interject. There's you know, the thing that that you the listener probably know Adele from is his magazine covers in his illustrations that have become I think fast company called you the illustrator and chief, you know, it's like it's an incredible body of work. That includes the most powerful, you know, illustrations of Trump that have. Come out, and they range from starting of just Trump very orange and melting to Trump, you know, and in the process that you've described this I've read elsewhere as like, you kind of draw this as an extreme, you know, an extreme version of your reaction to something that happened. But then he kind of lives into that version. So like, you know, when he starts talking like kind of like a racist. Then you drew him with a big old klu Klux Klan hood on and then Charlottesville happen. And all of a sudden that actually is a magazine cover for time or. You know? So there's that I'm about one year ahead of the at ahead of the curve on a lot of things in terms of the lake. I mean, the the one that I think my favorite favorite is a weird word to use. But the one that just struck me the most, of course, is like this this ISIS terrorist image of Trump with a beheaded statue of liberty, which again is like super raw image. And and, you know, in the context of like, would you have done that about, you know, other past presidents and everything right? The answer. Of course becomes clear a year later after you do it where it's just like. Yeah. I mean, this is terrorism like this and people are people are getting killed behind this shit. And the the power that you're illustrations have is to you know, to kind of present that in a way that I also feel could only have come from you like only your background, which is that something you think about artists or illustrators necessarily. It doesn't always seem so obvious. But the connection to me at least seems very clear like this is. This is this is why you have a hair trigger on that alarm. Right. And the rest of us are just kind of. Yeah. I think so going around, you know. Yeah. I I think some some degree to some people to there's a bit of a, oh, that's crazy Kook or look like crazy thing he did. And I I took from the very beginning. I took a very serious angle at it. And my images are are not never, you know, there's sometimes funny, but a little creepy at the same time, you know, funny, creepy or and it was it was a lot of times when I did when I made images I was some of it was b be strong. So people pay attention to what I'm saying. And but at the same time whenever I did was like this is kind of I'm going I'm taking I'm going out on a limb on this. You know, he hasn't beheaded the statue of liberty yet. He's not a Ku Klux Klan guy yet. So you do take that leap. No at that time. Now, definitely. Affiliation. But when I was making the images, it was this sort of like what could possibly happen. You know and present that to the people and get them to pay attention. And then it just slowly, you know, sort of evolves into it really really fits that that whole in. What I what I they'll be artists. We have a lot of free time to think of the impossible, you know. And that's what we do. We just sit around thinking, you know, what something become we'll get something be. And that's what I try to do what I try to present to people, and I shouldn't have to be doing that. You know, that's the point is that I shouldn't have to be thinking about. But you know, you have the FBI wondering at some point weight is is he an agent of Russia and starting an investigation. So that's what the FBI also does is sit around and think think of the impact, and and we, you know, we have time or. Yeah. That that's our jobs to to communicate these things. And yeah. It's definitely something that that I, you know, sometimes I people ask me why did he do what he continued doing it? And it's this idea that only I can do this kind of stuff that I'm thinking about because of my background and history. I can I can tie the stories together. I can see what the tater. I know what it was. Yeah. And I can see how this can become one. Slowly. Yeah. And I can I'm I'm able to see that in ways that other people can do, and I can communicate it because I figured out ways to do it. And I can I can work graphically and it very direct manner. So that's why I continue to do it. You know? I I rather be you know, painting something else. Trust me, you know. But I really whatever. But I really do feel like there's a lot of important topics that I want to I want to cover in 'em and make people aware of it. But as well, I was a normal. Great democracy for many years and Venezuela changed overnight does. Aster. Now, you know. So the idea that that can happen here. Well, it'd happened in Venezuela. What if what is that thing they say about bankruptcy it it happened gradually in the happened? All of a sudden, it's like, those those are the things where you're really prepping the ground that, you know, kind of a quieter thing that also I think I see in your images that you've talked about also is just like wanting to make images for people who don't speak English, necessarily and just like cutting like people in your family who don't speak like this is not highly like, you're going right for like some kind of human core that people just visually like, oh, I get exactly what we're saying here. Yeah. And it's, you know, sometimes I sacrificed the way a lot of information a lot of artistic detail or this. And that because sometimes I do feel that that that we tend ours artists to kind of make things for other artists. Right. And I take a lot of that stuff out. And I wanna communicate to like my dad or construction worker, and I spent a lot of my youth in junkyards and. You know, a mechanic shops with my dad. My dad will truck driver in in Miami. And I get a lot of joy that my image can can can get someone like my like my dad or former that that isn't keeping up with all the subtleties or whatever. Right. And they're like, wow. This is crazy that we just made. And then some PHD candidate. We'll somewhere will get the same feeling from as you're you're kind of touching the whole gamut of of of the population. And also out of my work at seen, you know worldwide. So now with the internet it's in Brazil in China drive. He friends online that are in Turkey, whatever. So you have to make images nowadays that really are are not language based. Right. You know? Yeah. And the threat is global. So you might as well like people better have an understanding. I mean because like you say also to to to almost commemorate this period, whether it ends up good or bad right to just sort of say like. This is what we're thinking from inside the United States. This is the moment of time that we're in and communicate that perfectly through illustration. Yeah, I I get I'm getting a lot of feedback from people in other places and Turkey, and they're like, I got a guy for you to draw. Well, that get that all the time you come to my country into, but but I think they look at me and going you're insane. What are you doing because I in their country, and they they know what the repercussions would be doing what I'm doing? So they are looking at through their filter and just kind of shaking their head like waiting like one something going to happen to you. Yeah. And I'm here doing it to show the rest of the world. I'm here. I can do this. I can do whatever I want. This is what America's really about. Yeah. The idea that you can just say whatever you want. Okay. Let's see let's see where the story ends up. Either America's a great country. And you can, you know, make images of the criticizing the president in the strongest way possible or it's not and I go to jail. I'm I'm willing to take the risk and putting into the tests. Well, if if I if I if I, you know, and this is where it comes again to my position, you know, if if if it's that's not what this country is. Why did I lose my entire family to come here? Why did I do all of that? Why have I not see my grandparents to come here? If that's not what this country is. It's over I'm done. That was the promise that your parents yet. If took up on like, this is a better place. Like, yes. Yes. So when you give me the opportunity, I'm going to take it, and I'm going to do it. And and and it's not the night. I don't really want to live anywhere. I'm done. Well, surely, surely, there's some. Weeden or? Sure. But hey, you know, it's not as much fun. I guess man. I appreciate that. You're out there. Putting the stress test on on democracy and freedom of speech. And you know, it's it's it's funny. Like having you designed the logo for this podcast is a little bit like taking the Ferrari to the store to buy some groceries. You know, like it's kind of MS application, but I just could not, you know, I couldn't have a a a need for illustration and not somehow try to see Joel you into being involved. Because like, I just yeah. I have such respect for the work that you do. And like this this way that it. It comes from who you are. And where you've been there's very few stories in media out there that that move me kind of quite like that. I know you're working on this book. I cannot wait to talk more about it. When it's when it's closer to coming out and telling your story, and yeah, everybody's gotta check out your work. It's it. It's a Dell Rodriguez. Great thanks for coming in. Thank you. The trip is hosted by me, Nathan Thornburgh produced by roads and kingdoms taffy milking yahtzee is our editor and arbitrary of good taste. Emily Marinov is our producer executive producers are me and Matt Golding also of roads and kingdoms music by Dan, the automated artwork by the man. You've listened to this hour. Adele Rodriguez over on roads and kingdoms dot com. A profile of one of New York's great culinary establishments, the Punjabi Delhi in the east village odd. Wet sings words and Jenga's ers photos bring this deli where I once bought the best mango man has ever tasted as perfect to fruit as has ever existed to life next week on the trip a conversation with former Washington Post, Tehran correspondent Jason resigned, author of the new book prisoner who tells the harrowing story of what happened when Iran's revolutionary guard set their grim sights on him and his journalist wife Yogi, it's an engrossing conversation about life. Liberty. In the fight for free press. Something was going on. And we weren't sure if it was. More hackers or more. You know, the state variety. I think she was way more in tune with the fact that this could be something pretty nasty than I was because screw up there. And you hear stories of people disappearing that shouldn't happen. So yeah, they they showed up and and homeless win prison. We'll meet you there.

Cuba time magazine United States Adele Rodriguez Miami Mariel boatlift America Spain Brooklyn Florida Havana del Rodriguez JFK Nathan Thornburgh Dana Louie Mexico New York Gokul
154: Amyl & The Sniffers, The Virtues on C4, Flying Lotus

Bigmouth

59:58 min | 1 year ago

154: Amyl & The Sniffers, The Virtues on C4, Flying Lotus

"At farmers insurance. We know a roof can withstand ally. One exception being an airborne car seen it covered it click for more. We are. Underwritten by farmer's truck fire insurance exchanges and affiliates. Products available in every state. Hello, welcome. Big mouth where every week we launch petition demanding that you'll favorite bands. Disappointing muster album be remade. With new more competent musicians. I'm Jay Harrison sitting here with a clipboard full of grievances. But don't worry. Listen, this Sean patterns here, too, with a positive your life at all afford, solo, Sean. How you doing? He remotely both about having game of thrones rewritten personal specific preferences. No fan. Fiction was full yet they have that on the net. That's why you rewrite stuff. You don't tell the organizers the produces the everybody that you're really upset with the way it's gone. That's terrible. I live in phaseout, you'll fictions gonna turn into. Into fiction. It's. Absolutely. Yes. How did y'all live draw the Eurovision song contest, go? It went marvelously. Thank just briefly. Will every year I've done this for six years running, because I'm a fool, I live draw all the acts of the Eurovision song contest and people donate, and the money goes to great woman street. And this year we raised six hundred forty five pounds. That's an increase of us. Lutely very well spotted maths genius that. Yeah, it was really, really good fun. It's terrifying because what you're doing essentially doing kind of, in two minutes, and it can go horribly. Wrong is only one I mean you know you make a mistake. You make a mistake, but it gets cheered on by people in Twitter. And it becomes this big community thing. And it was it was Julius did you actually say it a Iceland turned up in a series of Gimpo. Play complicated today. I some wonderful. Yes. The detail that I think I missed a little bit of detail book for the overall feel which was a lot of fire. So we go to low a fire on that one. Yeah. Some people's costumes, incredibly intricate is very difficult to some people quasi boring. So you just draw them in a corner, usual. The left hand just feet or something like that. So it's quite varied. They've gone out of the competition or the competition, winners such people will be getting their paintings, the end of the week majority could I missed the whole thing. I thought it was wonderful. But by that point, I couldn't really see during two and a half hours, solid and a goat good of walked on and sort of shot. And I. Have been very, very happy not to say that she was like that. I thought she was brilliant. She wasn't seeing chain, but I don't really care about losers. Yes council until show. It's controversial is Israel. She did a Palestine Israel together, you know. Let's meet the first of all guests Michael Hann, writes, about music for the guardian AFC, the spectator on classic rock, prog pitchfork, the quietness Logan potato farming. The tricks of the Sacramento bee, he was the music editors guilty of. But now he gets to pick and choose a Plum jobs from self. So this week, he went to see sting shaggy. Hello by. Experience. To say very peculiar, I found myself thinking. Who was use ago, when sting made his quest for gravitas to making jazz albums, and Lou taverns NAM's of magical 's to the imagine that the day would come when he'd be taking the role of shaggy side, kick Ravon, while playing Steve Miller, band, baseline a shaggy performed angel. I don't think he did. This is things midlife crisis. Trying to save the world by the multiple in the loose and just like brought out with shaggy the thing that I was unintentional. Bathos was shaggy told us all that we were all same on the skin could come to my matter what we were, whether we're black or white, and they into plated message in the bottle with a bit of get up stand up and housing king, gene, I've no one of the people who's going to have to worry about their rights on the way. All of these people are gonna be arrested, when not will just the same under the skin where she all sign on the skin. And I did. I think I saw one black person who was on the stage. The might be more open it. It felt very old at any point. Shaggy shug. Shug through all of them. And also he got some verses only which New York Mitchell became a Macon in New York street with a great big spliff. I'm a Jamaican in New York. I think he did. Yes. She did it on record. Somebody reggae is fascinating. Original payment somebody possibly. She actually did that. Ashanti into shaggy himself into more or less everything including every breath, you take. Any benefits from some shots. Lines fan fiction, isn't it? He is. Shocking, also see primal scream, but. I was very much for some Bobi less be political survey ships from the stage. Raced fister near in solidarity with the white middle middle-aged, man who social injustice on kilt, which he right, Paul. And also the remains of the enemy have been sold to ban blob technologies. A Singapore based music software business partly these two media Browns will play an enormous role in continuing vision to create a connected world of music up quite a few magazines, no ready. I think some of these specialists titles, you know, the ones that people by particular instruments, xylophone low that kind of thing zoo player that kind of thing. So I think these people interested in music, on, like the former owners who clearly have absolutely no I'm interested in music, so ever gonna create a connected, wilda music. The major problem? Still issue. Anyway, who else is on the show. Tisdale is either the world's most bolero Scouser or the world's scou- siesta, Blair DJ. He's countless music, install magazines, DJ's with soothing Mediterranean beats in an upscale bond near you. And now edits the gentleman's magazine umbrella, welcome back to big mouth, Toni T Bigalow on them. Really great. I'm about a lovely morning walking around, because we the new studio today out in west. This. This is a remark on this, too shall wanna came in the west London in weather like this looks like Madrid. Excellent people drinking coffee and it's loads. More hip than east than at the moment we sent to run to turn table and just start. I just wanted to kind of good, a copy of Chris REEs, Josephine, the dope here. Just play this. Yeah. You know, us the National Express coach goes by to talk here. Whom the whom voice of Africa here, everything will just chill out, all of our or something. Yeah. Yeah. So everything as in my world at the moment. What was rain? Just Edison pretentious magazine drilling. Wonderful got over Liverpool not winning the Premier League. Got over on the morning after company that won the goal watching it with my wife and he got the ball. Go on hit it where my words. Listen to me, my advice as you'll call to Mike Foale. Yeah. I am very excited about Madrid and obviously I won't be Baker straight now. It looks like stay can stay here, which one of those things, which is like the idea of going sounds great. But the reality it's better to watch you on the telly. Like in like everything. Really everything is better on the tally. Why is the no football record fuel team in Champions League for about ten fifteen years ago? I think the, the last major one that wasn't in England was ranges did long for when they when their forms and fifty fifth league title this again, just everyone realized they were incredibly Naff. I think the last one I remember for an English Cup. He would have been the Millwall FA Cup record. But they screwdriver football Rickles to get maybe that commemorative records now make tools by major Popstars the team record has finally gone, but I will say at this point drug attention from new pool and tools. Appear on the single greatest football record ever is by the Loftus Roadrunners recent nineteen seventy seven released by written by Bruce Thomas of the attractions, and its glam, rock stumper. Keeping the only team have an authentic glam rock stomp, the for them. Well, I'm still stunned that up there L fail. Right. But she spiked the late great Derek Barrick me. He was great of hardest. Hell yet. And you both politically engaged here. It's been a really great week legends of Herod heritage rocklin Morrissey wearing a badge from the far right? For Britain party, Bobby becoming adolescent, nonsense, Israel, Madonna of your vision, and then Andy Partridge directly, save by clear channel's now. I mean this shameful meltdown, holocaust evasion is, and what is it about these guys Szenes that they go down this Robert Hall of conspiracies them and genuinely nasty politics? Frankly, this goes out after my review of primal, scream appears because that is actually the opening paragraph alive. These guys Espy's no surprises. I mean bear in mind question would miss at ten fifteen years ago when invited to sign a make poverty history, Bouna he wrote, make Israel history instead by ruining making the signing starts complaining pointless, Bobi. Also, if you make Israel history, kind of that's actually, the foreign policy of all the nations surrounding Israel. That's not actually liberating Palestine in any meaningful way. That's just more genocide. Why, why do we listen to Popstars politics, Disney? No, I don't go to so of a council on the world and ask him to play, you know, stairways avenue. I so that's the so level were at. I think people get very used to these stars. Get used to being listened to and people take, you know, they say, seriously, they are entertainers. They're traveling those I can no longer. Listen to Morrisey I spent too long defended him. Oh, you know, separate from the prancing around right now, overly as part of a live show with a full Britain, badgen just think. Get out of my is get out of my life. I think place. I mean, I think it's less important. When it's yet middle-aged Rockstars basically to middle middle-aged fans who actually know what anything anyway. Okay loss store Morrissey on the people to do that. But it can still have an impact so early this week after the Alabama abortion law passed nineteen seventy five playing. Now Bama, and Mattie Haiti made a speech from the stage about how pooling this wasn't him and didn't have the right control women's bodies. And that's actually really powerful thing to do. Given their audience is teenage girls. He's thanking you don't have to stand for that. So when you're talking to people who stood on a workout, will, they think, I mean, well, hopefully, if the popstar saying the right thing I think there is a point. There is something positive from it. I mean, come Amira teenagers, we drink the enemy, uncle, sometimes going all you talking rubbish might, but other times you'd be spot to govern things because you've read about Nelson Mandela. We should get him out of jail. Should get him out of the seven inch of. I'm not gonna play some city, which I played on our Ferguson. They called sample town, what they called music center. Yes. Then go, you know. Come on, fist on these never played song city says. Let's keep it lie. Or maybe not this week we're going to be talking about antipathy and punk tags Amel in stiffness is debut album is out next week. Exactly how bargain-basement is punching, and will you the listener light them? Also the virtues on channel four. The new four part shea meadow series featuring the great Stephen Graham, as an ordinary bloke wrestling with repressed memories and family breakdown comeback. It's great what's going on in virtues. And where's it fit into the Shane meadows pumpkin on the new album by multidisciplinary LA hip hop. Elettronica space just person flying Lotus. What is flagrant? Is it flat? Graf pills. They. What is it all about? Anyway, wherever it fit into your personal universe. But first Andrew quit reminded a month, just veterans of osteo factory records devote, as with greater local area and northern rail, Colorado. I'm playing a full night's of Neo old. High end audio boss, spirit lending King's Cross on Thursday, the sixth of June as part of their spirit legend series on the Tisdale, you'll attest to this spirit loans has a sound system to die for even the toilets on better than this big in your house on the spirit lines legend series asleep, everybody from prince to the bills to Diana Ross. I'm going to be playing you ought his best album, tracks rarities remixes and anything else. That sounds good. At least three versions of two zero guaranteed a MacOS booze on food, a pretty good as well. So happening from eight PM till one AM. It's spirit land, Gregory square King's Cross on Thursday, the sixth of June under remember, every dish of big mouth daily. If you suppose on the chronic platform, patriot son for the price of a pint of five pounds, and we'll send you the show soon as it's ready and you'll get the extra bit to exclusive while patriot back this week. Anthony Michael gonna give this questions of. Albums that ought to be full fed to children impressionable age and the ones that ought to be removed from history and never spoken off again. Such patriot big mouths to find out more older saying is by a pint. Okay. Let's start with Papas o'clock Aimal in the sniffers spectacularly CD pope. I'm from Melvin the mullets and the like they smoke quite bat. This stuff is cheap nasty. Riffs GP, the singer really as gold, Amil, rather Amy Taylor. So it's not a which ones Desi said, are having a lot of fun, their self titled debut album, absolutely Peng's style and bonus points. It's nine minutes long is any good. We're gonna find out after this track. This has got you. This is that resurgence over a member went Rupp was supposed to be stupid and filmed, isn't it? You'll quiet admire you of punk rock revival. Luna sniff is sniff. NFS I think you pick slot. And you're only. That's right. So if you'll straits not, I think it's bad, but groups like this, I think, stunned full on on blue live about now. I saw Smith is when I come over to the UK about this time last year. I'm incendary Amy tell is extremely charismatic from women with her in front to you get the whole thing, which is sort of Dolly Parton, fronting sham, sixty nine and. Couple of EP that they did. What kind of fun? They were Vicki and cheap and shop. And that's what this should be. But the album I'm kinda less convinced by. I'm not sure production doesn't any phases produced by also who is kind of the, you know, the Jack booted forty eight tracks of guitars person who's on altog- monkeys vaccines and people like that. And to me, the record sounds like a headache, too much of his two punks loving smashed around the head repeatedly which can be a good thing. But in this case, I'm not sure entirely is now that would matter if they have amazing riff after amazing after mazing riff, but late. Pretty good. Drifts, the content when you watch them in a club, go. Yeah. This is fantastic phone, but ONA record the needs to be more now known this would be an issue if they have the incredible levels of hype around when people saying this is the most exciting band in generations. If just said, yeah, this, this little straight encouraged by then you do. Yes, it really is. But when you being told this is the future of rock and roll, your at my no, actually it's not nothing. The hype says, more about the shortage of really good rock and roll bands at the moment than it does marriage family. Sniff is another Vail. Not about group. I really don't. I don't wanna sound like I'm starting them off because I think they're great fun. But they just not as good as people want them to be, which is a different thing. I do think there's also in the coverage of the slight elements of the kind of fetch is Asian of the working class. I've interviewed them as well. I a piece about straight in your broke last year, which is kind of music, do really like genuinely but a lot. And I'm sniff is authentically not university students pretending to be half kids, they are tough. And some of the covers reminds you bit when the happy Mondays I came, and, you know, middle school also. Which I find kind of on pleasant. I'm to say so is it qualifies three and a half for me? I reviewed it for the guardian. And I gave it three and I mean, obviously reviews light you to not give three bus. This is genuinely a three. That's what it is. It's a pretty good record Tony guessing. This is probably not you'll compensate. No, I thought they she sounded a bit like Susie Quattro. Right. Book, but, you know, taking that on board, I quite enjoyed I enjoy it more than thought ward. I mean it was like a relief when every song ended. Good. Because as like being hate around the head of mid range. Sound, the world's a couple of Trenton actually lines. Gaqid on anger thing. I'd call it was scene. Yes. Yes on feel very rebellious, indeed, quite enjoy. But if you'd like punk music, you might like this thing, lose right hippie show. This is a form of music, the has moved on and full, two years. Yeah, but then that's sort of a so much -rupt over the Walsall fencing for real men, what I liked about. It was that it was phone, and it wasn't just a little of bunch of generation clash knock on telling you how serious they are. And I won't say, well, we live in think about it. Yeah. This is just like Shilpa, Dallas brush all over the place that Hsun all the don't be weapons-grade internationally memorable do to. It's twenty eight seconds and it's very built, Michael say, did fall myself joining like an awful lot more than I thought I was gonna say I mean it doesn't love idiot chanting on the go, and sort of, of the accent is right to the phones. Different. It was nice to have something. That's no of dedicated young people to actually sing, you really good rights, and ultimately the goal is to be Gary ball. I glad that they don't wanna be Gary Barlow. They made loads of money sheet on the shame, Italy have a massive house with the swim villain. I might be a really great thing. It will very interesting. These spe- 'em exceeding Melbourne with equal. Scalpers. Do you know about them? Looked at them. So I chose the mullet cynical. Okay. There's something here. Yes. If you don't like that's basically, don't it's pretty good hit you like this. I would say, give it give it a go almost while five there are co- poll of banging tracks on there. And I will give full respect for that apologies to produce. LC he's supposed to for Australia and Australians plaguing. The percents about. Well, again, I seen them live last year, windmill Brixton, which is a tiny venue, and it was sold out. And that's really what you should do. You should see. I'm the sniffers, they are we have used the phrase singles bond there a singles band? It's fine the album's fine. But again, it was, I was on track or something I was thinking is this going to stop thinking with any twenty five minutes, it's, it's just Samy and blessed them, and it's very Tripoli, and it's not very well produced. That was the point. But you've got to see them life. You've got to see her. She crowd surfs everywhere. They are incredible. And that's where they really exist. And I did think trade signed them at the end last year. What's the point putting out Malcolm? Two people put up. I don't know what the point about singles near because. In seoul. Out some meat peas, make give it that kind of momentum because I think this fools very, very flat sonically and just, just I feel bad saying it. What was the crowd like when you went to see them in terms of age wonderfully range from sixteen up to the people, you know, stroking Jin's like me, but watch she'll strong pogo. Really, really young people that are really getting into she's got lots of female funds as well. Which is really great to see. She is Khotan impairing. But in that fantastic way, I just think she's wonderful, and it's just doesn't do them Justice. Just albums floor mat man. What was Russia with over the, this see for months? And she also said she really likes Lifa Baltin. I see a thread, see from what's threat this, this is what we do they would have given them the biscuit tin. They would have given the cover that would take them somewhere where zoo from first day out on the stiffest really drunk, the often smashes, always done. Headline, along with Australian and the headline. It would offend like strength. Yes. Nothing wrong with that. The head okay for this kind of this is yes, I'm gonna go and see them. And then after one song after going over to our lie down the tiny tent probably we'll go. We'll go there because, you know, you soul Bill, the live experience. You wanna see talking to sound like that guy. But you won't wanna seem so much small, we are role that guy and. Okay. Let's music from one of our guests, we always ask them to bring in June and Anthony Tisdale. It's your turn today. Surprisingly. Slavi sophisticated funky disco. Yeah, I'm Karen, she of the best haircuts of two thousand two, yes. A human person. Into she's ace, she's on a truck old ten the light, which is a joyous. Lovely pop funky thing. And if it was a salad, it would be a Caesar salad. Maybe delicious Caesar salad danger. Mouse has not danger mouse, who who's Penfold listens to probably knows these things. Crazy. Pump dangerous. Where's this? Where's this from day? One. Let's go to Spotify give away all my. Hi follows of trendy people and spy fi in incredibly present just Baletic playlists on its from that. And I thought I'll have that lights it alleged there. Okay. Don't tell. Is in danger mouse with turn the light. Stars. Okay. Onto the virtues. Shame meadows, new channel four drama. Starring nine of duty. Stephen Graham Joseph, a man who is indeed down on his luck. Meadows is known of course, for that month shoes once upon a time the Midland's and the this is England film and TV trilogy amongst others. He deals in the real stuff. So how does the virtues compare whether a few tough nut teens and instead more middle-aged men and do you need a box of tissues, and a whole bottle of shirt get through it discuss after the trainer. Who I am free? Okay. It's. Sheila when you want it. Joseph is my sister. I know you don't. Here's a case call. Applicant is just too. Class leaves his Mark. It's really good. The vet. She's Shane meadows, new head on four part drama covered. With Jack Thorne who usually writes, with in it, we see Joseph arrived last supper of sorts is partner. Hon? You husband, Joe school, age son who emigrate to a stray at the next day they eat, and drink, and they have a very difficult how publi tents, male and that sets the scene for the first episode and the series Michael Hann. How did you fail from the dinner party scene on, what's, what that sets up? I'm what we then go into the choose the I never asked me seem anything Shane meadows before this was my first Shane mothers. I'm Shane meadows version. I thought it was extraordinarily. I think it was Taibbi original, I mean, I think we've all seen those kind of things where someone goes on edge into the heart of human desperation with a lot of walking around the lots of until camera bits where things go bit Pash, eight mothers necessarily much dialogue, but it was so perfectly judged the, the scene with his son under the son's acting extolled news. So naturalistic it didn't seem like he was acting toll absolutely brilliant. Found really really heartbreaking at the dinner and then go into the bedroom to give sonacare shuttle, and yeah, I was on the brink of needing to go and fetch the box of tissues, and you find yourself thinking about your own relationship with your children and housing. Oh, being videotaped with by Sunday, that dancing. God, I shouldn't be other should I show. Hug. And then to the scene in the pub and there was just kinda grim inevitability. I mean you waiting to see when, when his wife says a you, okay? Capable this problem, he goes, I need discoverable his problem is. But the kind of way the Stephen grime is brilliant, the way he's kind of you can send the desperation of trying to find happiness. I will find happiness by buying drinks for everyone in this pub, and it's no it's all of his entire nights, Assadi. No, the crashes coming. But again the way they delivered the crush the next morning. He when he's lying the rug in his flat, covered in vomit, again, you thinking right, where do we go from here going to be in a hospital in rehab, and everything? But no, he just gets himself up, and then just has to get on trying to go, but his life, and I think it was so, so wonderfully judged in tone, and everything, and Stephen grime isn't. Trade as some kind of misbegotten signed tools, all some terrible sin. He's an older man just trying to get by. I found him completely convincing, although I have to say with the Stephen Grimes Scouser going back to land for some as yet, undiscovered reason. Chris, I from my mind, but this character in line of JT. Right. These scouts, actually come from on in the first place, I did home amounts confusion that. Let's shake metres for Stephen grime was going to be cast in two roles in crushing weeks. Tisdale. I believe you're from the player England. Yes. Usual broke. Does this reflect the atmosphere? The place is something you recognize along with the story line, where it set. And the reason why regional the first of as in around the Midland. Mistake, the first ten minutes or so. It was like it's chambers. Tends to east. Midland's westerns. Deadman shoes. Absolutely fantastic. Basically Clint Eastwood films set in depressing bits of Nottinghamshire. I'm I thought this was absolutely fantastic. I really like Stephen Graham's. Sometimes, I think he Stephen Graham's too much when he when you think he's, he's going to explode because there is there is a toll from this to, to hidden on a thaw always, you're gonna Stephen Graham affi- this the where he was in the pope. But he didn't I thought he was absolutely fantastic as the, the daddy, Sony's going, obviously devastated by this. And then very cleverly these bits of eighty VHS video Komen a referencing. Some sort of way at religious cold, which is suspected is where he's going to Northern Ireland to say I it's really, really good. There is also another Honda identify you spotted that the ferry that was really good because it was a bit of comic relief and very much in the computer say's. No thing all hot. An incredible. If tally eights race just really entertaining. It's like a it's a really good west, and he's going to find something on. I'm saying Pilin Cates thing. You know what I liked about? It was that the entire I is pure setup. I mean, the show is clearly about repressed memories of some kind, something terrible is made him into this guy. And you know, he struck me as you know, he's, he's the guy says it in the corner of every single you don't wanna go in. He's battered by life. And also buses physically you mentioned that Stephen Graham frequently explodes in his role this, that's not this character is actually quite timid. And you know, you kind of look at it his, his Saad attempts to buy faction in the pulp and thinking was to this to this guy. And I think the pace of it in that you don't get revelation revelation in this first very slow burn over the four, we can maintain that very slow pace. Offer, you know, television drivers has to compete, you know, get allowed involvement. Everything's to your attention. You don't often get these islands of quietness on the story of a very, very old people who story yet is still for him. The most important the most epic thing that's me in the world. But when I thought about not is, it's very cinematic, and you can see that Shane meadows inject thrown what, what films because there's a lot of show, not telling. So there's a Sima. He just goes into the park, so he's both a ticket, and he's got ten hours, twelve hours to wait for the ferry, and there's no, Donald he's a bottle of cider and it's whether he drinks side or not, there's no dollar a tool over is playing in the in the place really, really clever. And in that way, it takes us say the noise out of it, because your left is kind of pick up the jigsaw paces everything together, and you know, that something happened. And it's the why not the how and all that sort of thing is really sophisticated story tiny man. I think that's why you just as my mouth was gaping. How? Good. It is. But also, it's really struck me. It's really clean. This is nothing that you would trim away. I never thought this before watching any television program. I won't pay tribute to the ads sedulously for channel four. I know me when you're watching a program with commercial breaks. Even when they carefully about where to put the destroys the fly, but this is written in such clean act. Each break exactly the right place. I'm going to draw didn't have a tool, but it comes at the right place. Doesn't destroy anything. And so each segment is completely separate and discrete and the risk there is no disruption to it for pretty writing. Fantastic as well. Because we the Cody Griffin is bender in the pub what he's buying strangers rounds on these deadlines coke with, with the landlord, and then it turns out that, you know, he actually called over the Bill and all the rest of it is directed in very distinct way from the very sort of slow and deliberate pacing of Immonen, his on the ways the ferry and also the weird kind of counts off the strong moments where he's actually on the end of the bender obviously, incredibly past, and we save staggering around Sheffield says, he's the name of the cameras that you'd be strapped to the front of an individual and it just shows your face of the center frame, no matter what you do. So the rest of the world pivots, you'll faces always in the center, and he's kind of in dialogue with these memories that keep popping up, which clearly has a strong element of religious terror in that. And it actually if you've failed you of folded into this well of drunkenness and fame with him. I just thought it was a. He'll hit Dyer Tori level. It's amazing gripping and so much more, compelling than the well, sort of spectacle was around the with, with Betty shows on gave thrones expected full prostrate s- before the explosion of mine drug, which I do. But sometimes this things like this could be much powerful. Absolutely. It could be many Hammy as well. Drunk is very difficult to act and roomful of drunk people and presumably, they're filming that all day in the morning when no one's drunk for tool. Today off along it provides because. The kid in the bedroom the naturalism of the of the pub scene. The natural isn't of the puck seen what Michelle scripture says. Steven goes to park, do some acting. Please do. Yeah. Reminded me might Lee boys from about stuff. I'm these all that sort of thing. Someone I so like, Patrick, Melrose from last year, which is addiction, but about someone who's fell more. Yes, people, I'd like about these. So I'm a be Shane meadows found a like he's on the standing of his low of his area, and it is upon the world, you know, that doesn't get a great deal of coverage isn't it? You know. Yeah. That Paul, especially East Midland, South Yorkshire think he understands that all his films tend to be set round. There. We haven't seen that I would like a room for Romeo brass. Fantastic. Deadman choose the sentenced on spectacular places. Just really normal places that no. You know unless you have to go to that area, you don't have to really, really great. John can you have to every week unless you know, for if a the water cooler moments? Yes, wonderful. That's on the poster. Okay. Let's music on another choice from all guests Michael Hann. It's you'll ten what have you into the show remember what is cool back cheap? Cheap. Big books. The reason the reason I picked this track whose title I couldn't remember until Andre reminded me of it. There's no like I'm talking about cancel. I'm gonna have to get some nothing's really fascinating. I was over in India, this year during the patriot inflight magazine about Indian metal on the people. I spoke to gyco, Vernon who was in the first ever Indian MetaBank millennium in the eighties. Now, he's a big proselytizer for Indian bands singing in their local languages, but metal in India's almost exclusively middle classing is all sung in English. And he says, that's one reason why hip hop has exploded and yeah. A metal Hassen mattress still is tiny fragmented. See Ramona bands. But you know, they played two to three hundred people like play six or seven gigs a year because actually you can't bore everyone just going around the big cities. But bloody would release the song last year called REI Ari which was partly in Punjabi kind of rap metal thing basement Penjab folk song and it blew up by some distance the biggest song ever in the history of Indian mentally millions, and millions and millions of YouTube views, a brilliant video, filmed going around the streets captured. Being everyday life. No one snarling no-one with fetal monitors in none of that stuff. And I think they could be the future for how Indian metal can develop you know, simply by doing this by coup pricing local elements now. There's another tension, here, which is probably well for white people to say, no, you come from an exotic country. Why can't you senior exotic things rather than copying us? But bloody would ain't me there ain't that kids in India? And it's working. However, there is this contrast between the millions of millions and millions and millions of YouTube us, and how that going over in the west, they're coming for the first European shows this summer. I think that UK show I suppose. Only one announce it's at a pub in Milton Keynes so that you got. Well, I check this out the Raj against the machine machine tone. Thank thinking the way, I. There are some big. They're on lots of metal bills but I run this past my wife does like heavy metal. And she really dug a chief this, call us yourself. Use thrilled by its listen to our Yari, which I think is much better than this. But I really fascinating group. Okay. Delicious, bloody would and the truckers, matchy beside and I'm definitely pronouncing wrong. I don. Cool. Twenty. Finally flying aka Steven Ellison is a man with pedigree DJ. Cope, you Kendrick Lamar pimples of life, explorer, great nephew of honest Coltrane, but he's also dependable Sheffield bull clunk label warp records, how alpha when all sokaia affects and of Canada and all that kind of stuff so you can solve. See what he's coming from FLA Magara is six. And if you just calibrations with Emerson pack, George Clinton, little dragon, David Lynch, Shabazz, policies, Solano's, amongst many, many others spoilers, cosmic afro doesn't true freak out. Is it any good? We're gonna find out after this track. This is Takashi. Takeshi Michael Eastman, this record. Is it? Tried to get food several times in the Osmond be reviewing for the guardian. And the end back to the say, you've gotta get someone else review this this, this is just I couldn't get a handle on it. You know, when people on social media, and they're expressing the misled lack of understanding for something close that Alan. Partridge shrugging. Me with this record Dalton idea. It's also very helpfully supplied to review is in a single unbroken stream we no track breaks, which is intensely. They can find. About four hundred twenty nine tracks on is. Easy to take. I couldn't get that from I consider thirty it's progress as a proper record the bolero communities and kept it. For the community. What did you think of FLA Magara? I listened to it for the third time this morning. The link between my bluetooth on my. And I couldn't tell what it was the bluetooth that was going wrong. All the record turns out both very glitch glitches. You light something wrong with my study away. However. I think it has its merit. This is not to say that I think I'll listen to an enormous amount, but it does have its merits times it feels like of politicians going, good bum-bum-bum-bum-bum-bum-ba. And then it goes into a really great rap record on that. And there is if you think today slide in the family stone, it's a bit of early seventies miles Davis. I know some terrible saying that, but it is this, a lot of soul and disco references there. But they've they've been put through at Brevard host. And I mean just it sounds a bit all it's not straight and is very weird. But I think if you like that souls of music, and I do than it is worth definitely worth ago. I liked about it was. I mean it's definitely prog. It's prob- soul jazz Kuzmic. So throw the bullets far as you can lose of wild cable. Drones multiple strange, Texas. You'd give from kind of a customer sweep, just ambient pant type things. Instead, she say strikes hip of record. I actually very persuasive, because it felt to me like a baked MAC mix tape. It felt like a big, but tool Dury's, all of the entire world of black music since about losing fifty six with emphasis old current tour. Like again, as if you can cut take everything that's happened in wills of Johnson funk, and they kind of crummy through a wolf shaped hole. You. Melody's not that bothered about melodies them kind of bit by bit boring. I like textures. Thanks. Thanks. It's just probably, isn't it? I've, I've always struggled with prog prog rock because a fun it dole on indulgent, but I should love it because what it's about is going out there. And this Rickles goes out there with the things I like I funk groove. You know, obey rap a little bit of electronic squirm keeness rather than somebody showing their guitar chops. Having listened to having listened to forty five minutes of it three times. I'm going on the break by looking up some reviews of it, and seeing by an Myra flying low to say, yet, it takes a lot of listens before this wreck starts to make sense goal isn't long enough consensus flight legis people he doesn't seem to, like take any old Mary farthest on. It's just more of it, but it hasn't actually taken his corpus of what we need place show. Think of it, is it good in one of the. Hundred and seven minutes until we where he shouts out for next quick. And I thought. Yes. It's difficult. And I did think, yes, you got into this twenty or thirty times, and that's not an exaggeration to then get it. It's a really slow burn. I think someone mentioned that phrase it's difficult. It's complicated. And yet intellectually, I think that's amazing. Bring it on. And yet, it's who does have the time to do that. It's really, really hard to listen to because the so much going on. There's no added to it quite like I fun to cut thunder cats on it in the four Cup things really good. Because the Mondays anthem or was while the strange? So I realized I have men's. Plus, this quick, two things I could get a hook onto, but yes, it's incredibly hard to hook onto it unless you know that stuff, but front, which you generally don't because we don't live in California, and we're not win, not in that kind of clink. Well, other four old obstruse rumbling music. I actually found it very easy to sink into because the me, the entrance point is, it's outcast. This is basically I don't cuss record Ted to twelve with the kind of melodies removed and extra psychedelia. That's pretty tasty proposition to me. I also like the fact that the collaborations seeded in that there's no kind of ladies and gentlemen, as you must palaces. Just bubble up there, not sense. It subsidy anti pop music out cost off. Pop music. Yeah. There are no hooks is no kind of manatees really, really hard as to find your way in, but I think probably wouldn't find your way in your in new combs escape. This mixed feelings, compounded by the fact that in the middle. David Lynch pops open just telling me crazy story. Just like fail. Zone smoking person this baby. Feel plus this is what I have Magid smoking the legal one. One. Against difficult. Before you. Yeah. Difficult though. It's gonna take me to two more weeks aside, whether I can I can do this on review this. I haven't got the time as somebody is coming to this from a position of minority to actually give you any reasonable consider those amounting. Well aspirin mystery because like most music, I know, a lot of allergies and no one, it's coming from. I can see the foundations. It's all at the pump a new sense. Sealed victory outside this bloody clearly got on a that's nice. That's a nice chain. Listen to on your speakers. Is that the different issues? Mac speeches was pretty persuasive. Ghonim. Had around Bill. Could you basically slip this pretend you're mixing ill? And now everyone would leave. This just nine of the lyric. It's out. There's no acoustic guitar. There's no, there's no really chilled out roads on that. Eight Sam eight difficult. Identify real won't that much difficulty in our life would like separate trash, because I can take off the hip ones. Do like gets up. It's just in the white speed supplied to people before really experience as a home. They want you to. Most surprised because I actually couldn't get my around. It's pimples. Which is an enormous hits and considered to be one of the great statement of the budget couldn't find a way if you this more accessible and more. You know all this. I was surprised by much. I liked it because I was already run them. No motive all nonsense actually, the randomness, proved to be the thing. So anyway, I would like it and you. Quite quite alone. A genius. From? So we'll come into the end of the show, which means closing time, Chesa, guess be discussing with ammo on this, on the porch in Mellanby over a couple of ten in a face. Full of liquid gold sees what's your toes football fans on Twitter? All right. Because the terrible people as a particular thing that's occasion, this, I mean. I mean I shouldn't go on Twitter because, you know, I don't warm high pressure, but I do especially around football. And if you think, you know, intra labor party politics is poisonous way to find a football on Twitter, because it's like the red wedding of game of thrones. It's like ran this and. And people are either really offensive or offended. And it's usually the same thing. I understand the passion of, and that it represents your city or some that you are really involved in, but stop getting offended years, the constant magnification of old Inari. So don't you think that, that that's not not today with football. That's twisted that social media goes football used to be a place where you could go and scream something. Absolutely. Indefensible into the in the show knowledge. The note he was listening to be no comeback at all. And their social media. People think they can call it the same release the services and the people yellow gate. I can read and reply. I don't pilot to them, and it's the same football politics, probably daily Smith. Cookery twisted is probably just as bad, a company about various social media, just been the worst qualities in, in, in human nature and football, nothing. You provide H politics as well. It just like magnified. Is it by ten that's two four? I think that's that's. Are you? I mean, we do the remaining X twits selfishly combative. I'm big mouth. We tweak things this interesting and his show, but remain acts, we've, you know, just the power of news, just like shut didn't if somebody's horrible and you block them, they think they achieved something if somebody's audible audit, we have a lot wonder maniac say, well, clearly pro am and political activists who just trying to, you know, one or two people who anything we sounder maniacs thou pilot with accounts council points. That's you know, clearly agenda driven and you just meet them because what's the point there's no argument them almost given the satisfaction of now in that you've locked them. So is that the key, then the moves while my nans wise advice? I'm not even going to ignore that. Powerful. Next week season. Fifteen deadliest catch. Okay. Reality show that I love. It's about crab fisherman on the Bering Sea. Unlike full, it's always different always the same really only one thing, happens in every episode crab fisherman out, and see some catch crab and a happy and some don't catch crab under unhappy, busy extremity of all the cramp, fleet tends to attract people of Cutie, Pessina addiction problems that people running from things people who are incapable any kind of social interests, Dr. The veggies even grime from that would be a crab fisherman doubt about it. But the extremity isn't just in the, the people go that it's in the things that happened on closing in immense bond between the people, filming it and the people making it annoyance the camera people is real and because that only spouts all the time and happing years and years and years. You know, they completely open front of the cameras so been ongoing storylines one crop fishermen, who son were on his boat and the captain polling bullying. If you watch it you could see that the captain, didn't always a bully. He's doing the best buy sun, and in the end, the sun, walks off the boat and went to another boat. And this tension between being a big thing on the other big story lines. The moment is a young captain, whose dad died, five six, we sold that, that die. No. These attacks because they sit they sleep two hours a day. And they sit on the bridge of that chain smoking, and drinking coffee, they all have heart attacks people die when Bunce go down. You know it's, it's real, it's, it's kinda horrifying. It's rarely you foreign, but come to actually really like a lot of these people. It is a Sipe. It is a soap taken to come to the extremes of the human condition cry recommend it to anyone all the time. Discovery Channel eat more or less crap. It makes me think that the subsidy no way in the world, I would ever go trout fisherman came. Don't be. Very different when I was sixteen with my friend. I did a funding the lots of fundings at the time about what they shambling bands, which was the Sarah records type, and we decided to do something different about people on TV. So we wrote to people with a pattern of paper, kids and wrote to the management news to write lots of questions. Big big space for the answers in handwriting, because they wouldn't reply if he'd done it. So one computer, and we get the muck, and I was just looking over these funds, because I am going to digitize them. I'm put them out there because I realize, we have these fabulous people in the in the funds the first one issue, which is the central heating issue by the way, every one of them how to theme school. How to win friends and influence people had Jim Bowen, Victoria Wood's, Steve him frying because Parsons, John pill, Bob Holness from. That's my dog fame both wholeness. Now. I've got I've got confused. There's another that's majorities in this, you to Christopher Lilly, crap. We actually these are real jealousy of stars. Since celebrity cookery corn, Victoria would centers. Avocado sandwich recipe plus interview Alan Bennett is he had an interview that was as, as postal. How do you spend your leisure hours? We asked I don't think like this. He. Capitals. And then the end most of his answers on. No, he's a sorry to be such a disappointment in capitals. You should have chosen someone else old cliff Richard's behalf. Yes, it Derek hopes. Miss the other Derrick from that Smith dope. And it's just I was reading through. I thought this is this treasure. Trove of people we manage to get another little up just the NAS one, because he was children's TV entertainer at the time gherkins as well. That my friend. Nikki did it with my friend, Nikki that. She's drawn Defoe. Your boy body, no. Interview. That she quite funny and props to Nikki, because most of the really good jobs are hers. I'm going to sell them online because it's just like fundings now it's the same as it wasn't. Your money in the culture that we will, we will let listeners know when they. About. The smashed up there. I think yes she wasn't shave. Charles is a very quit one say radio falls today. Today continue to like a masochist thrones. Was on. And they had this sounds like woman in the package. She said game it turns is really about the way we live today. Not bullet. He is. It's about our world today at all the opposite. It's a it's a many will cut acquaintance, mythical reimagining of the walls and the roses it's about things like TIMMY and list for power and familial, didactic madness and cruelty of things that are eternal, so in that sense, it's about our well today, just as it would have been an all world, five years ago or two thousand years in the future, but it's not in the age of Trump. It's not in the age of Brexit. It's not in the age of all world today. Now, post company doesn't meet too. Don't make me a cultural critics way of, asserting that something like needs to pay attention to say it's. Exactly on it, it made me really annoyed me, the idea that everything has to be about the way we live. Now we did it remained last night. With Dory, linski new book minister, which is about ninety four as positive show. And he pointed out that eighty four is really is about the way we live now because it's always been about the way from nineteen forty nine when it was written rights tonight. It's always relevant. It's chiming with today's themes today's themes chiming with nineteen Eighty-four good. So of good fiction is applicable to the modern day, but it doesn't just apply itself to the Mukilteo. Let's, let's very clearly a satire, all, you know, an allegory about current events. To me is the need for these things to be conscripted into a modern consents. You know, everything's going to be about the age of Trump just is people would have said in the nineteen eighties. Well, you don't agree about site nuclear weapons. Maybe it's just about dragons who knows how that's one degrees. There was 'cause they say what it's about knowing pay under. I think we'll the bay type of streams just about ten sixty six until I went down to Hastings and someone's shot me in the eye with a bible, narrow history do that to you. Fan of the show. At least Michael Hanna gonna be sticking around with the extra in a minute. What for the general listenership exciting productivity going up going to stay in shaggy next warm going to the change festival in Tottenham in Devon on Friday? Laura barton. And I are going to be doing some. Unspecified income about Bruce Springsteen. I'm just going to say there's no one is gonna make it up as we say British. Yeah. Great. Still next things on your agenda to finish. Quintessentially magazine the magazine. Nice. Quintessentially concierge service. Includes interviewing lots of people note, people know engineer as good as the people. Hard to get now. Yes. On basically I'm having these little moments onic now before the big football much the worry, it'll be fine. It's going to be good pitcher people. The expert will be with you soon. Thanks for listening to Sean, entrepreneur Elsie bath. Thanks again. It's on bullet of Edo studios in London, but bailing out studio wise we're going to play out with the remind I am playing at only order sets. Yes. K King's Cross spirit loans even played spirit line. Just rebounding list. Old light deal famously promiscuous on the remix sometimes of the terrible. This is one of the great wellness from two thousand to the glory days of electric lash. This is the Cobra and bones mix of confusion much in this on speak is the sausage yet. We'll see next week. I. Such. Summertime tips, and fun facts from Paul, Kristen index ter-, total wine and more. 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Episode 32:  L. Kasimu Harris Imagines an Uprising in New Orleans

The Trip

47:32 min | 1 year ago

Episode 32: L. Kasimu Harris Imagines an Uprising in New Orleans

"All right. We are here. The haunted school. We'll walk this way. I and we're in the knife or the issue that I know of this school. It was established right after desegregation as what you would call like white flight are segr- kademi school saying segregation. So that mad. They only had African Americans volley white students only white. Got that field. But. It is a little home. Right. I mean this bad juju. This is a school that started up as part of, you know, white flight, what is it like making art in a place like this? Do you ever feel that that by the school's not trying to push you out? Man. I like being a disrupt I think I'm the only person on the only person in this space. I moved at here Morton's Dade two thousand seventeen. So it was just kind of ironic for me to integrate the space on that day. That's your reclaiming the space in here of the history. There's nothing more political fascinating up lifting and infuriating than school the country. We are as reflected in our education system is not exactly how would like to think of ourselves. But reflection is true. Take my city of New York last week the city's best public schools. Davison sent out eight hundred and ninety five acceptance letters for the class of two thousand twenty three but only seven of those letters went to black students seven in a school district. Where almost seventy percent of the students are black or Hispanic is an outrage, but it's not just New York. It's everywhere in this country, including one of America's great cities in war liens, a majority black city that is still failing. It's African American students in some very important ways. We're going to do three episodes from the warlords all with African American guests, including an artist lawyer and a rocket scientists slash barbecue pit master. And it feels especially right this week to start in a school talking with artists and author L Cosima Harris who has made education a centerpiece of his work in some very surprising ways, some hard conversations in the big easy. But we will have a good time doing them from luminary media and roads and kingdoms. This is Nathan. Orenburg and you're listening to the trip drinking with exceptional people around the world. It is gotta glasses. Let's go this healthy too. That's a cool. That's a good three fingers. Kentucky straight bourbon. All right. Well. Geez. All right. So toast. Yup. So I I wanted to add this. Disclaimer Cassim has much better wissies at home. Right. And I insisted that the maker's Mark there was here. It's kind of like, you know, what do they call it? The beer from here the old rainier lite L commercials. Sometimes what's handy and available is the best stuff. And also like we're here in your studio. And this is a space for making art and feels to me at least in my experience almost every studio space, whether it's for art or music or anything else has had like a bottle of maker's somewhere because good it's pretty affordable. So I'm excited to have some artists maker's Mark in so location, and you give me a tour of the place where we called the school in the ninth ward. Let's just launch into that. Because it seems like such good corollary to the project that you're currently working on to tell me about this educational uprising that you are bringing to life in your photography. I think it came about originally, I was working with the bancard honorable south, and they tasked me to do their album cover. It was four people in the band. And I just thought of this photo I was with my wife. She was my girlfriend, and we had had argument. And so we sitting at a ball and Valentine's Day, you know, aqua kind of I started sketching something out on a little napkin in the photo UC over your left shoulder that was going to be the Adam cover so four students kind of glaring into the camera a heroic looking shot and for them going off that going parks of my choice, their weapons or music got it before I gave this idea to the ban. They said, you know, we want to do was the good the bad the ugly. So I shot that. But I love my idea so much that I just continued right? Because this is a striking photograph. It's it's four African American students look like high school age, and they're wearing kind of prep school uniforms, but the defiance is very big in their stands. But it is kind of like that album cover play, right, right? I can see the connection because you know, it's like time you take a selfie with you and like three other people and you got like staggering depths. Right. That's like the band. That's the cover shot. Yeah. I'm inspired by that. I mean, not the date the podcast, but we're two days before Valentine's Day. And I'm I'm looking forward to getting back to New York and having a fight with my wife on Valentine's and just seeing what kind of creative thing trust me. And then have some drinks. Make up and and then you're left with this great sketch, which started a whole path for you. Now, this is a long engagement you've had with this project. This was two thousand fifteen and the other caveat to this was that I think in two thousand thirteen I was working on HBO's trae I was either like a interim clearance coordinator or internal writers department. So I I was really engaged with a lot of scripts and one day I heard Terry gross talking to a guy named Adria young. And he produced this album called twelve ways to die with goals face killer, and they were never the studio at the same time. So the way he got goes face the rap on topic was he wrote an entire script for a movie and each scene was a song. So that inspired me. Well after that initial sketch in two thousand fifteen I thought back to that script. So I wrote basically an outline of a script at became one of benighted. So the first integration was linear narrative on the second iteration when it was the spate ones museum of art. We just got a mixed it up. So the name is warned the benighted, which is who are the benighted in this scenario. Two adults the adults who are have built a system where you have a school to prison pipeline where arts get short shrift because of mutt. Nigel adherence of testing culture. And we're African American students are just consistently left out. Correct. These of the the kids who star sometimes inap- said in that sent in your pictures. Right. And it's like could be the aftermath of a protest or them in the act. I love some of these photos where they're scaling walls. You know, they're they're kind of doing their things like break in breakout. And they're doing it all the while in these very natty prep school uniform, which kind of places them as the students who finally had enough. Correct. And wardrobe story was that. As the narrative went along, the less. They adhere to school rules being uniform. And then when you see them entering a school that was an relation to the number of shuttered schools after Hurricane Katrina that never reopened. So they were breaking into educate themselves about revotes are uprisings things that you will not be taught in school. But maybe you would be taught the American revolution. But you wouldn't be talked about Tucson over and what he did against Napoleon and getting that country, it's freedom. Right. And like how much of the curriculum is based around New Orleans like Haitian, the first liberator self liberators of the continent being here. So obviously, it's got to be tied into to your experience coming out of schools to is their connection. Did you go through some of these things this rebellion? You always had in mind as a as a high schooler. I wish I was so cool. I think it was a marginal student, you know, someone who tested well. Wasn't that engaged in school? I know in high school my senior year, I would cut school to go to the music library at university of Loyola, I think as the HOGAN jazz archives, and I would sit there for hours looking at just various things about jazz and the history of New Orleans. So obviously, I was interested in learning. But what they would teach just as low born to me. So I didn't go home and do other kinds of things. I just wasn't that interested in interested in school in the catalyst was once in high school when I talked to a guy consular and she like really rebuffed by aspirated. She looked at my marginal grades. And it was like you should choose another route like vocational academy or something like that. Nothing's wrong. With those things I think we need master carpenters and skilled people in plumbing, and right, but we shouldn't put our nerds into those professions. Right. If you're a music nerd on the hanging out in the music library. They probably were not meant to be swinging a hammer for the rest of. Time. No. I mean, I'm sitting on a chair that you just fixed. Right. So I want to push. Wanted to mean, you're carpentry skills, just saying, obviously, your interest. We're somewhere else. So what did that conversation? Was that a wake-up to you, do you? Remember the scene off Rudy when he was trying to get on a bus to go see Notre Dame, and a priest was like, what are you doing? You're not Notre Dame material. Like, you can't even dream get outta mind felt like that. And so it's something I always remembered so much like Rudy it just drove me. So I didn't have a confrontation with the lady but through college through graduate school throughout life. It's something I've remembered so and now looking back you grew up in New Orleans. Yes, you have that schooling experience. But obviously something in the way. And I would assume a lot of this came out of Katrina which had brought I I mean, it did a lot of things of this town. But one of them was figuring out how to town rebuilds itself. I imagine it kind of brings up some of its old ugly instincts and makes that part of it. I mean like you said the so many schools that never got reopened. What is the? Education story post Katrina for you in this town, experimental it's almost like the Tuskegee experiment instead of it being health, it's education. So we're not talking about healthy experiment. It's it's more. Like, let's try some crap out on these people. We don't care that much about. That's how I feel. So we've gone away from neighborhood schools, we've gone to majority charter system initially after Hurricane Katrina about seven thousand teachers as well as school personnel were fired. That was the middle class of African Americans. They were replace by large by inexperience predominantly white recent college graduates from like TEFA and teach Nola and things like that. So even black students who were in TEFA, some of them had a disconnect. I talked to a guy I'll say his name Jonathan Johnson. He's the founder of rooted schools. He grew up in California. I always say that, you know, he was more childish Gambino to the students little Wayne. Both black people, but one of them may be into Ademi and the other one's into something totally on opposite end of the spectrum of that. So sometimes it's not always about how you look to be able to relate to student rate. So my point is the inexperience they put into the classrooms and these charter schools that are private public. And moreover, we see what private Sitate privatization has done to the health care industry prisons housing. None of those things have a winning record. No, no. No. No. So now we want to privatize schools. Right. And we have the Queen of privatization DeVos is now at the very top of the sclerotic and disease. Structure that we've got at the moment, and there's not really school choice. Right. Because what they're actually doing is degrading and defiling the public school system that existed in like, you said neighborhood schools are now they're just not even there right in a lot of cases, right? And to be fair the public school system prior to Katrina was not stellar and had a lot of issues. Probably one of them is funding. Not probably it was right is just I have a son. He's six okay. And we taught him how to read at three because we enrolled him into a reading class and the reading class maybe was three hundred six hundred dollars. So we gave child ahead start. If you can't afford that your child is going to kindergarten behind all these students, mostly or not black. Yeah. Who's already reading? And then you have that chief Macapa that you have you know, depending on your income. So if you have maybe someone in a low income community, and they don't have. The wherewithal on a knowledge the time to read to their child. So you go into pre K kindergarten behind. It's not you have teachers and under underfunded schools working with children who are just traffic behind in the problem, just exacerbates, and I was talking about this with Jennifer Chang on an episode that we did where you know. My kids are thirteen and ten so little more advance. And we're in the high school, you know, area thinking about that in New York City, we have the sing about specialized admission highschool so that like the very elite academic public schools, and I went to this insane meeting where you had a number of people who were essentially making the case that in order for there to be equality at these very highest level high schools in the school district that seventy percent black and Hispanic what you should do have the city subsidize after school programs that are like private programs like Kumaon or like this reading program, you put your son in and it just struck me as this ridiculous arms race. It's like the answer. Probably if you're going to spend money to make your local schools better and better funded and make them better. Places of learning rather than say, you know, we need to make this kind of stop gap tutoring program acceptable to minority students or low income students. It's it doesn't make any sense. Why don't we just work on making the thing better? Like, the core of the thing. I've talked to in nineteen ninety seven my freshman year of college. I wrote a paper saying that basically it has no incentive to to properly educate everyone because if everyone was probably educated equally educated you had a equitable education who's going to particularly service industry a lot of services. She drives who's gonna work in a hotel whose clean up those rooms who's going to be a cabdriver who's gonna shucked oysters who's gonna feel those prisons. So it's not really profitable to have equitable educate. Action that high feel we need storytelling like the stuff you're doing to dramatize. What's actually happening? People. Don't understand this something. I I think it's called compassionate deficiency. Someone gets murdered. We see with such regularity that when you know, a dog is in humanely treated, it's out of the norm. It's aberration. So we may have more compassionate for that. We keep hearing so much about school so much about schools that same oh narrative, maybe people at the school board meeting protesting that when you have a different type narrative to hear a familiar story. But in a different way, I think that people can receive a better. So now, obviously, you're you're an artist, and it's not your job to lead policy on these things you jobs to kind of. You know, throw some wood on the fire of these discussions. But could it happen? Like, how do we get out of it? We just register our discontent and try to make stories around it. And that was the problem with Katrina like there were moments where you felt like this could be a fresh start. I mean, maybe maybe you who were living here was just like, no that's not going to. But man, I think black folk missed out after Katrina, I think that so much opportunity came here. I think a lot of preference was given to out of town is bonuses things like that. And I think that I don't wanna say bye folk didn't have the foresight. I think some of it is that you deal with so much trauma afterwards, you really thinking about how to get your life back together how to get your family together. And so someone moving here with entrepreneurial aspirations who didn't have that traveling. You can think like, oh, let's make this a tech place. Let's do film here. Let me run a school is opportunity. Let me move in and had a my business. So it's only a blank canvas for the creative class that that came in not having to deal with the lives that they had had and we're trying to rebuild that's my point of contention. Yes. And there has been a lot of redevelopment and innovation here in New Orleans post, Katrina, but I think that some of the natives missed that boat. There is just too much to be done. Too much trouble in the world too much whiskey to drink and art to make to waste time. 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Prices themselves are unbeatable standard shipping is free. Invest of all I am offering a promotion to all of my busy listeners, actually, even the listeners. Don't have anything to do. Everybody gets this discount. It's twenty dollars off your context at simple contacts dot com. Backslash the trip or enter the code the trip at checkout. That's twenty dollars off your contacts at simple contacts dot com. Backslash the trip or enter code the trip at checkout. I was down here. I was working at time magazine at the time we spent a few weeks reporting. But it was like right after the storm. I don't know. I mean, people forget about it. And now, we have all sorts of new storms coming up, and we have sandy, and we had will like all of these things are kind of pushing it out of out of memory. But what I remember is feeling that. I mean, it was, you know, a great American city that was totally destroyed and people are just sort of, you know, it kind of came and went out of the headlines on some level in part of it was that when you don't have that attention on a national level, then your you can lack some of the imagination creativity to try to figure out how to deal with it correctly. And you're right. It's like tourism is applicable Orleans is booming, and I think actually right down here and by water, which is not far from where we're at. They're building a new cruise terminal or something right heard that. Yeah. And which is going to totally. I mean, you think. About all the business down there that are kind of quietly humming. They're about to get blown out of the water. If it's true that they're bringing in like massive cruise ships. They're not bringing like great culture or opportunities with them, generally. I mean, unless you're into t shirts, fruity drinks, right? So you asked about opportunity and how to change things. I think some of it is empowering people are empowering ourselves to realize that we can make change to be United to stand up against things and to galvanize and resources if that's done. That's a big part of it right there. Another one of my projects, it's about vanishing black bars lounges here New Orleans, which I have realized that it's obviously. Yeah. But at a much faster rate than I thought really so on Saint Bernard avenue between clayborn and north ramp part that his foot forty fifty six years has been like. A hub of black bars in the black bars they connect throughout the dice borough African diaspora through like shebeen and South Africa or juke joint places that were very communal very neighborhood. When you didn't have a lot of transportation, you could just get off work walk there and more importantly in apartheid, South Africa. Jim crow, Mississippi and Louisiana when you couldn't go to some of the downtown establishments. That's where you could go and have your sip. So it was important. It was a safe space, obviously in in the delta with a juke joint blues came from these faces of vanishing. I think that we need to all see the importance of him, and you might not partaken libations, but you can still hopefully, see the cultural relevance here New Orleans, associate and pleasure clubs come out of this is where the black masking. And the ns come out of if they're going what happens, right? So there's sort of these safe places that are these engines of culture in the city, and what what is driving them out. Is it real estate prices as gentrification another things I think throughout time a lot of people who are Labor's going back to the within African diaspora where you had a lot of New Orleans built up by the Haitians or the architecture of that falcons. So when he came into modern times, you have these Matha carpenters brick, Masons ironworkers a lot of those people. I guess it was back breaking work. Some of them didn't want their children to endure that like, hey, I worked hard. So you go off and go to college. So essentially, I think with a lot of black businesses. They're not institutionalized. All right. See so you don't pass it on maybe some people just get tired. You know, and there's not a contingency plan to pass the bar on. I heard a guy his name Vic. He has other place Boris apron avenue, and I was asking him. You know, how do you feel about, you know, you're at this moment the only back bar, and he was like, you know, what they came to do. And I don't blame. He is like I've been doing the same shit serving the same drinks to the same people for twenty five years. Somebody offers some money I'm gonna take it too. So putting that labor and the demand that they not live their individual lives to the way that they want to. But they have to somehow sacrifice for the cause of this. When those Akra faces are kind of unnecessarily high. All right. And I don't know if they have to do that. But there's Irish pub coffee MacOS when they wanted to sell their so to some longstanding regulars who, you know, maybe they wanted to make a few changes. But they knew the importance of having this remain Irish pub. You know? So that's what I mean about institutionalizing and passing it down. So some of it could be justification some of it could be someone didn't own a building. But some of it could be someone's tired, you know. Well, it's and it's interesting one of the things you see in. I've seen this place like Seattle where I've lived where there are definitely fewer like kind of, you know, Hispanic manic bars or Hispanic only or black bars or black only, but they would like they kind of take over a night, you know, and be like a Thursday night. China harbor was turned into like the the total salsa scene because they didn't have a space of their own. And it kind of shows you like that desire to be at a place where they can come together and have a sense of community is really strong, and they'll go and find it wherever someone will let them in at the door people think about Jim crow like, well, that's in the past and so on, but ultimately a lot of those dynamics seem to me as a white person is like you just observe how they're finding their spaces to realize people need their space to I was a meme. The JC Jewish community center. And you know, if you were a member of one, you could go to any JC across America, I've been in Chinatown in San Francisco and New York and DC I mean, and it's just like that's their space. It's not saying like keep your way out. But this is their space. And I've in Brooklyn in has city area of the is just like, whoa. Yeah. You know, clustering in cluster, immigration leg, these things these are human impulses. Right. And I guess the job of a place of a city like New Orleans is to make sure that you're not making it. So that these places can't exist anymore. So the project that you're working on with the disappearing black bars. Is it like warned the benighted? Is it a photo project across across a period of time. And how's it coming together? How are you telling that story straight tiger straight wanna benighted? And some of my other work is what Richard McCabe curious. Oh, photography at the Ogden. He dubbed it as constructive reality. It's everything is staged with the vanishing black bars and allergies. No. That's that's just I'm telling you as it is. You know, you know, maybe staging poetry it's but the bar as it is. I'm I was inspired by Bernie arms juke joints and just work that ROY decarava did in Harlem. So I I guess you would say I'm playing straight documentary series pretty much hear the stories and just bring it together. Right. And I wanna focus on the people that place, and I went to little people's place. And I saw picture of myself that Michael Smith took when Wint Marcellus play there, and maybe nineteen ninety six that picture is still up in that. Boy. That's when I was inspiring trumpet player, you understand what I'm saying. So like the history of patrons right is continues to to last on. There's another place called sportsman's corner and on the. Door. There's a pin. It the saints. But then obituaries form past patriots who've transition that's on a door. Wow. So the connection to the community to that bar. That's a real. Yeah. I mean, listen, I clearly I I mean, I went I went dry for January. But I'm not making that mistake again this month, and we appreciate drinking here. I think that's one of the great things about is like they can be a place for community, and it doesn't it's not doesn't have to be the only one. But it's it's the one that's available on so many levels. I was actually I went to a bar Al jeers last night. Just because I wanted to take the ferry across and they have this English pub there and crown and anchor and something yes. I mean, very English puppy crispy, serve crispy. Yeah. Yes. You know, the the Union Jacks everywhere. Whatever it was it was a nice little neighborhood joint. But just the way that they had pictures of people's grandparents in uniform. And I mean, I'll jeers is is I didn't spend a lot of time there after Katrina. So I don't know a lot about the place was kind of bar speaking of communities like where people not only seem like they knew each other. But they might have all been related. And that's you know, I mean, it's a largely Caucasian like environment over there. And again, that's the thing is like they've made their space. That's where they're hanging out. I don't know if that businesses under threat, or if like white bars are, you know, Irish bars are going out of style. But I imagine not, you know, magic the challenges facing like a black bar scene. Are just going to be different. I do know that I think it's pubs in London. They there was an ordinance passed whatever they call it there. Because too many of these historic pubs were being redeveloped. So they were losing the history too. And they noticed the importance of this is like for real for real. And we can't just let it keep going away. So they pass it that, you know, if someone sales I think it has to. Can you to be a pop in these stories, basically historic designation conservation easement for drinking establish every Joan and you know, in New York, I don't know what part of the city it is. But you see like where been Franklin had the printing press, and how these old bars man, that's important man who wants to have Starbucks there or anything Creighton barrow bar CVS, Dwayne Reed or Starbucks. What am I three grim roads that any like actual establishment can walk down, and I have to say just reflecting on it too. Because I I was just walking through the French quarter yesterday. Obviously it's living monument to getting drunk on some level. Right. I mean, it's like the whole thing. It's open container. It's people who show up like, you know, God bless them. Because you know, I may be in this cohort. But I do believe that the alcoholic of America descend on New Orleans just express themselves and live freely for a couple days in the fact that in that city in that context that you would have bars of any kind especially black. Bars in majority African American environment. Like would just go out of business is shame like the booze businesses. Not in trouble in this town. No, they don't have like bars and a French quarter to my knowledge them I ever had one probably would just be that it's cost prohibitive. You'd have to have your twelve dollar beer to make that habits have to there's a black bar a little bit victory bar. It's in the CBD's. So it's a cross from the French quarter about three or four blocks away. But I'm talking about these little I don't want to call it a hole in a while. But just a homey place that you could go that's the type places I'm looking at. Yeah. That's amazing. When when is that coming out, what's the I mean, you've been showing all over the place with warned the benighted and you've had big shows. It's ongoing I have three photos from that series curly on view in a solo exhibit right now and grandma state university Dunbar gallery, so it's three photos that'd be up until February twenty six but currently I'm in four different shows that one solo show in grabbing state university. I'm in a show called per sister about for me across the ready women at nukem our college at two lane. So I went back to construct the realities in recreated, our embody the story of facts. Rich who her and her husband at some point collectively have been incarcerated for about thirty years. The other series is daddy lying that's at Hammond house. So that's also a group exhibit Hamid house in Atlanta. That's curated about shandra pre Lewis in the other exhibit that I'm currently in is race revolution still separate still on the will. And that's that Penn State and that has photos photos from the one of an ice series. And that's curated by Katie fuller. Larry OC Mensa, so all of the eastern United States and south of north and Pennsylvania telling the story from I guess New Orleans perspective as well. Thank some of it in writing. I started out writing. I'm still a writer. So I started writing maybe three or four years before photography. I think this guy named ROY Peter Clark pointers. He calls it the ladder distraction. So basically, these are things that may resonate with the individual at first, but they continue. To go up to themes that relate to everyone. So we get into the story. Through the point of view of one person. But it's a big issue. So these stories may be based in New Orleans, but it's an issue that right? National international will love that. I mean, my group is journalists and world was unfortunately, not everybody does a great job of this. But you know, you you have to maintain that big wall between what didn't did not actually happen. But you know, you run into the limits of documentarian ISM. Sometimes right. It's like because if you wanna make connections, especially between like you're saying between your city a wider area, but are not going to do a multi year documentary project all over, but you know, those ideas are real and relevant and need expressing on some level. Then that's where art can kind of step in. Right. But you you I mean you back and forth. I guess between the kind of documentary and the artistic way to deal with those things is it just panned on on the subject matter which tool you're going to use. How you decide if you're going to use constructive reality. Or if you're going to go out and just hit the street. And do kind of journalism on it says, actually, right? This is accurate. What I do. I went to university of Mississippi for journalism. So it was print journalism. I started graduate school ten days before Hurricane Katrina. And I picked up for tiger. Then well doing graduate school here in the city that was the sippy. Okay. I want August eighteenth and Katrina hit August twenty eighth. So to answer your question. Yes. Some stories just dictate that it should be told this way and other things should be told another way boils down to is the amount of freedom. I can have if the bar series. I just think it presents itself. The way it is. You know for the school series was school's gonna let me go. Traumatize right under under under appreciated students arriving. Yes. Right. So like, you know, going back to my time on your may way, you know, so much learned from working on actual like locations scouting locations, and I carry that throughout my artistic practice. So when they're breaking into somewhere. It's just abandoned building wasn't even a school. Another time. I use a former school that's a condos now to play it as a school. And I did use the school wants the school that I got fired at when I was in journalism teacher. I my contract didn't get renewed. I suppose, but he had to get enough relationship to to go back. So I'm just always trying to tell stories I'm very passionate about it. And this is what I love about. Art and journalism when it's done at say, not all journalism, some just factual reporting, but a lot of this kind of like nonfiction documentarian work. It's like it comes from the person. Like, you are who you are. No matter what you're going to do. Do like what the project is. Or what you know where you're pointing the lens or what you're writing about. It's still you. It's this kind of amalgamation of all these interests and experiences you've had and then who cares like which way it's going. You know, like if you're posing these students to create this story, or if you're saying, well, this is a real story. That's happening right now, I'm going to say this. I hope I meet him one day. I hope not to meet him one day, and I'm just solely disappointed, but you know, Donald Glover. Your your your child can be no way instead of team. Little Wayne was the students in challenge Gambino's the teacher little Wayne when he picked the Vikings over the saints and the two thousand nine championship game. So I I haven't been a fan of waned since then I have to say as an aside the number of fuck the Super Bowl t-shirts that I've seen in this town in the past couple of weeks or the past couple of days is incredible. The ability for someone from this town to make personal. Politics football, very impressive, man. I don't mean to bring up a bad subject. I know it's over it. Tennessee from nineteen ninety eight to two thousand four so that was at the height of the Tennessee titans run. And they went even went to Super Bowl. So I had to learn. And so I'm gonna fraternity cap off aside and a lot of my fraternity brothers would come over to the house and watch it, and they were just in the saints fucking some shit up. And I will put him on those stuff those stuff, and I just had to pray like I need to be delivered from this anger of being disappointed by the saints. So I've learned to get over really quickly. It's good because I did this when I saw somebody with that t shirt on. I was like I think you're only you can only really wear that t shirt in Cleveland, you know, like saints have actually like, you know, there's been up and down. But they're in it, you know, they're they're in the mix on some level. Like, I don't know that New Orleans has a has a proper claim to heartbreak. I mean this last game was. There. Yeah. Yes. That's true. It's it's it's not a new story. I mean, I was in living in Tennessee when the saints. I believe it's ninety nine nine I guess the Carolina Panthers. They did this basically eight they did a Calver Stanford. They return a kick, and you know, one what allowed a lot of laterals during the ball back on the field. Yeah. They they scored they tied a game to win it or maybe they they were appoint underneath appoint behind. And then you kick the extra point to send it to overtime. Motherfucking. This extra point. This is when the extra point was still like on the five eight, right? This is. We missed it. I made it. So it's like how you gonna have some so improbable. Yes. And that's what you start to build. This narrative layer, it is something we did. I think I think Jefferson City man, he said New Orleans exam possible city on inevitable site, what he was saying that New Orleans because of the proximity to the Gulf of Mexico should be built about ninety miles inland, which would be from the Gulf of Mexico Baton Rouge. But because of the close proximity to the Gulf of Mexico. It was a port city they built it here. Anyway. So you know, when the native Americans the here, they had the irradiation down. They saw the flooding had the new the silt. So they knew when to move in decamping come back. But you know, I'm sorry. You're folk. That greed is need we need to be here. We need to be efficient that we were talking about the colonizers who I mean, speaking of my folk it's one thousand percent, and it's not even it's not even the color your skin. But it's the mentality. That's been adopted by you know, the the people who inhabit my pigment. The army corps of engineer, which we were saying is right across the street from me, they have a a hub is like, you know, you talk about being upset about saints football. There's no club for people who are angry at the army corps of engineer. You know, like I mean, it's like me and Mike Grunwald who done all this amazing. Very outraged. Reporting about what they've done to the Mississippi, you know, and I'm from south Florida what they did the Everglades like these grand schemes to try to trap and control and monetize these acts of God. You know, these these parts of nature that that would never meant to stand for it. I mean people lost their lives over that here. And they will and they'll continue to where I'm from key west. And and the Everglades and everywhere of the army corps of engineers has tried to create a profit off of nature. I don't think it's wrong to a scribe. That is particularly in this fear to a that is Caucasian who's getting that money. Like, right. I mean, it's just how it is to your point my son, Grayson my daughter into whatever on born child. I have I have to tell them that in life, just work hard. Just be the best that you can be you know, and that's done by repetition. Dreaming don't what you have to do? But for as much work as you put it in some other fucking looking like, how can they re off your benefits? How can they do the least amount of work to just take your work? But that's it. So that you telling you children just like watch out. She's have is on the back of your head for whoever might take, you know, or put yourself in a position where you get to reap the awards of your own labor and your own success. The hard part for me as an adult is how do you not Robert child of their innocence? Yeah. So I I I remember one time I was telling my son I hasten sometime someone's going to take something from you just who you are his Eichel. I'll just give them one. That that's not how we're so. You know, that's a beautiful moment. Time in the child's life. That's the instinct and the reaction and how do you keep right? How do you make sure they do that, you know, within their own personal circles, and are that person, but not so open to the world that we know what would happen to that instinct in the larger eco system that kinda me of America's the people who are working for the jest diverted, whatever they say on NPR's, some may the MAC author foundation or something like that. But they're the other class of folk our school of folk who just like, I I'm just ready to take your shit. No. So the predator class. There we go. Thank you. We should probably not elect them to the highest offices and land. We're going to have to redo that at another moment because ever, but you know, fuck it. There's like there's some ways of handling it and some some reactions, and it's the reason why I wanted to talk to you is it just feels like you're creating these ways of talking about this stuff that are important. They just are. We can't all be policy wonk, sometimes you have to make art to sing about this stuff and your projects do that. So so thank you. Thank you keep that going. I wish we had more whiskey, but we're going to have to step out to find it. I just I just wanna keep drinking bourbon, number, my wife and telling stories are yell. Sorry about that Valentine's that was that was unfortunate. But look what came out of it. I had a exhibit at New Orleans museum of art, man. Like one fight from Valentine. I mean, it was like a big ass banner. Like, it was crazy to see this thing between the under the table to tell you the truth. Massive banner, the New Orleans museum, art. Yeah. Just behind one Valentine's date, gone wrong. Russell lower the curator. He came here to the studio. My son was here. And he was like, that's that's the thing. When you sometimes when you talking, and you don't know what the stakes are that can be better is -actly is -actly. So I, you know, I'm still coming up in the world and just storytime where period, and I thought he just wanted to kinda hey on shoes shit, and I had exhibit in New York. So I couldn't meet I couldn't go to lunch with them that day. So he's like, well, let's do something. More intentional come to you studio. I like the fun. I pretty all this stuff out. I spend thousand dollars printing out new photos, and he came in. And he looked at those photos. It used to be eight on the wall there from Warren. That's the first ration-, and he was like, so where do you wanna go with this? And I'm telling you know, I'm just dreaming big. Because I I had no stakes because I'm I can never imagine being in New Orleans museum within another five years or so right and the large format even really no knowledge from that was so then I had to go out with his name time. Who's one of my studio Mason, he showed me showing me how to shoot for about five. So anyway, it's just interesting. I was just speaking with a great freedom. Right. And I like to continue to do that without with throughout life just dream free. You know, it's it's it's one of the few freedoms. We actually have our own ideas and our own like what we'd like to see out there. I think that. It's proven. Some of us are all gifted these dreams at the same time. So it's not really about the dream in a sense. It's about who executed. I'm sure somebody else has some ideas like well, this D or George Washington Carver. But that's the people who did it is some Jameson wasn't the only woman who wanted to go to space. But that's the woman who did it. My thing is from idea to execution to. Imitation. And if we could just keep that freedom. Maybe we fuck it up. Maybe we don't do it. But we have to keep striving for it. That's it. That's it. Damn. All right. That's that's that's perfect place. I feel like everybody should be should have taken notes on this and live your life accordingly. Please. Because then you'll end up doing the the kind of work that L casino Harrison's doing appreciate it so much. Thank you. She say my name correctly. Thank you. The trip from luminary media and roads and kingdoms is hosted by me Nathan foreign birth taffy mocking yahtzee is our editor and will be leading the next school rebellion from the front. I am. Sure. Emily Marinov is our producer music by Dan. The automated episode illustration by daisy de show artwork. By Adele Rodriguez. Executive producers are me and MAC also of roads and kingdoms next week. We are with pepper Bowen who has crafted a very unique career for herself in New Orleans as a food lawyer. We drank big gulp Dak reason talked about hard alcohol urban farming and social Justice now for word about luminary premium our future and fabulous home for the show. It is a platform for diverse an amazing array of podcasts that will be yours ad free. Or just seven ninety nine a month. We still have this presale offer for listeners to the trip. Sign up for luminary premium before April twenty second through luminary dot link back. Slash trip. And you will be enrolled win experiences from some of luminaries most exciting, creators like dinner with guy Roz personalized podcast about you from Lena Dunham or a Brooklyn day drinking and or eating all with me, go to luminary dot link. Backslash trip to sign up today. That's women airy dot link backslash trip to sign up before April twenty second terms and conditions apply. 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153: Rave movie BEATS, What We Do In The Shadows, the album only I like (slight return)

Bigmouth

1:05:15 hr | 1 year ago

153: Rave movie BEATS, What We Do In The Shadows, the album only I like (slight return)

"At farmers insurance. We know every windshield collision has unique sound beetle bird boop. Drone seen it covered it click for more we are. Underwritten by farmer's truck. Fire insurance exchange center. Affiliates products available in every state. Hello, welcome to the apocalyptic series, finale of big mouth. The culmination of eight traumatic seasons of the most densely plotted an intricate pump culture podcast of modern times complained about the persona, but we turned it down this. And so it's going to claim mature adult treatment of universal themes, like the latest full album awfully back. I'm Andrea Harrison and around in a with a glass of wine. Sean Payton is about dragon pretty depends, so hotel, ask, because that digging up the streets support brought bounden Sean. How are you? Join the dragon joined the dragon chasing not John. I don't come. Coach you risque, we'll spend more, possessing few, this, the fact that close in the borderline or Donnie bega setting his own career flyer been worse. Line actually been to in years. Must say, lots of. Yeah. And Doney maker, just didn't do himself service. He has subsequently apologise, maybe we'll be all right. But that was all bit out was an adjutant arsov onto the borderline. You could still get a pint for about fifty so called Mona didn't support the place. Tequila is that the property. Great wasn't it? Bingo hand job that was nineteen ninety. That was when, you know, that was a one seven one uneven been invented. I don't count. Sean. I guess this week funny, should ask that she's a veteran writer and academic an old school, enemy selected spare rib journo spam. From several tomes including Madonna like an icon and three volumes of Sheba the definitive history of women in rock pop. And so welcome to big mouth, Lucy O'Brien. Thank you, as our Madonna correspondent, what to make the new shoes and the Latino direction, I've been listening to them, and I'm really enjoying it because it's much more subtle than rebel heart. I felt rebel heart was a bit of an industry album, but this new one the tracks I've heard so far. She's, she's going for a much more nuanced, much more subtle sound and yeah, I actually the truck highlight best so far as rise that she's that. She's done with sway, which is really she's very good at working with new young producers in a way, that is completely insane. Sync with where she is at the moment. An I also like the way that she's she saw pood- Emma Gonzalez as well the activists, you know, the anti gun activist from the Florida high school children. So she still kind of keeping the political comment in there and as I'm portent, I'd say so she needs edges. Yeah. It does. Yeah. You also wrote in a claim biography of dusty Springfield and which line updating we speak, you're aware of her mother's pride of it back in the ninety. Oh. We aware for mother's pride of back in the sixties. I was. Found it. We're gonna play it tough. Here it is. It's only thirty seconds long. Let's have a listen. A happy knock up and then popular beside. 'cause Wakeham with a Cup of. There. With the freshman version of posts. Mother's pride. Breading makes a big going to get. The way I wake them by bringing to the side, the bed, we make. Fantastic mother's pride. That's correct. Now. Advertise Radin pretend to be the knocker getting your. But in the moment, I like stars when the appetizers normal stuff, I know someone who wants to ties Tesco, which just go to Tesco with the time to find then isn't it? She, she used to advertise, fake orange juice. Trucks, you, you still hit them everywhere. And she's sort of become so much part of the cultural landscape now much more than if the other sixties female artists, and I think it's because she has amazing versatility. She could cross so many different genres of Jessie, j advertising took crooked by mile. Isn't it because Romans narrows current appetizing will buttons bagels, Robert deniro baking? Talking. I think he did it for the dough. Well, there is joining us today. Also, it's Michael HOGAN CB rights from the telegraph, and the guardian film, editor sky magazine, biking, those amazing nineties this week's twit superstar because he tweeted list of things that only middle class people on the famous people involved we'll happen. They what was on your list of middle-class things that you own. Go to our site in front of me list of sort of smartly and Boden. Accardo type possessions. I, I just kind of the way I did it because one of the pipe did a really rubbish, one things middle class people and included things like hot tubs, simply isn't true, that's working class. Lying much hearts floor trying to get it to sleep one night on Friday night. And so I just saw type list that thinking about it too much. And then they wanna be violent people really angry about to, and still be my surprise, go puddings. Actually she tweeted to Senate. So there are thousands of good putting McCain's. I'd probably say diabetes. Check scrabble lady by Brexit book, and the old goo Pearl. No, I think I think they're sixteen things I think three sixteen is respectively. Low middle thank God for that. And as a TV rights, did you the penultimate game of thrones as we can go with light spoilers view ish might? I think yeah. Then just slightly nice diving isn't it towards the end? Which is a great shame on people seem very, very angry. It's funny about this little bit later because it's been put preying on my mind. But at the idea that it's just feels over compressed. Yes. On that characters who used to find their own way and do their own thing in their story would would own fold by the nature of who they were. And now being shelled from Saint scenery, or you need to die. Hurry up. You need to you need to you need to be hosted by. Bits out religious, you can hit. Absolutely. Yes. Yes. I think a lot of the problems come from this final season bang seven episodes. And, you know, apparently them Rafa two seasons finish off their over ten episodes per season. And the said they wanted to do it in seven, and I think it proving. Yes, thank I just looks like the tried to satisfied. They kind of on the one hand, the TV must meet my expectations crowd. And also the TV boasts Vert my expectations crowd years at the same time is, is kind of people seem very people seem to, you know, I think this is a Newfoundland tedious, I think people seem to think they partner in the show now. Yeah. Because of you know, because of the way contemporary culture is, and the internet, and that and so people kind of want it to end exactly the way they want it to end getting furious that the thing they put on that Reddit thread, six months ago, isn't happening on the screen and this baffling to me. I mean you should want to be surprised by television, just go down to the shop on finding shoes. Your eventual, they are available this week on the. Show to be talking about the unabashedly. Scottish rave movie beats in which a gang of we'd Rogers discovered the life-changing prophecies of dancing in a failed. Bring new light to on this universal rights of passage. We're going to be responding to an old, big mouth classic the album. I'd like a nobody else does in which Lucy and Michael would be bidding up an under appreciated record. Plus will be taken look at the TV vision of what we do in the shadows, take a t- on Jemaine from the conchords cult hits about life in a vampire house is this Sunday that the mile BBC all listenable after these reminders from shown ravers Matt, just a veterans and long rank whereas of London southeast. We have news few, if you love new order, I guess you probably might and under will be playing a full night of their music connoisseur. Audio boss, spirit land in kings cross, even on Thursday, June the sixth. It's part of their spirit land legend series, which is excluded. Everything from Crawford p funk to Beatles on a sound system of stupefying policy. And the cocktail spirit, some foods on by Neva. Andrew be playing new classics rarities and the best of their remixes. He will at least three versions of tutti Frutti guaranteed, and it's all happening from eight to one AM at spirit land grant square King's Cross those June be there and don't forget to dress up like a fish person from the true faith video bring your own Trump elite jump to. Meanwhile, don't forget, you can get every addition of big mouth a day early. If you help us pay studio bills on the crowd funding platform, patron, sign up for the price of a pint, a mere five Putin's, and we'll send you the show as soon as we manicured sound to forty eight track perfection. You'll get the extra bit too exclusive to our patron backers this Lucy, Michael, be adding to our database of the albums that ought to be on the national curriculum and the ones that ought to be removed from history as, if they'd never existed sets patron big mouth to find out more over saying is as a pint. Okay. Let's start with beats new independent movie focusing on the lots of days of raving tonight, nine hundred ninety four urban ravers in their Chevignon jackets are. Finding unlikely cameraderie with dwelling, Christie's. The criminal Justice Bill is cracking down on the free party movement, and everything under think is possible for the young ravers to be in beats directed by Brian, well, she's working, like, Mira episode the entire history of you his what it sounds like. Someone's going to go off me. You. Justice. Legal. Music wholly or predominantly county tonight's by the emission of a succession of feet. Who's speaking to? They wanted. It is on minds. Keep us to know settling boxes. Rave. Your lay Scotland. Right. The night. And the humane. Please me. Veils. See the other say. The only system I'll ever trust is a sound system. Think about it yet. Think about it bees in which straight headed. John Lewis Cowan mate spa. Experience life changing nights in a failed somewhere in west Lothian on the soundtrack is the cream of quality rave, chose my twits from the optimal DJ crew. Lisa O'Brien set. This full is what is happening here. Well. I'm often slightly worried when we have subculture films music, and subculture films just because they seem rather studied, my friend Graham Duff, who's written a book called foreground music life in fifteen geeks, which is coming out in the autumn. He writes about specials gig that he went to the late seventies. And he said, if this was a film, then everyone would be imperfectly. They pressed trousers and put my hats and quite often with these music, subculture movies. There's much more attention paid to the wardrobe like getting the vintage clothes and getting all exactly right. The dawn's is exactly right now. What are like about this is that it doesn't slave to that it's not like that film, northern soul that I felt was a little studied? You really feel like you'll there and there's as much. Attention paid to the character development the plot. It's a great soundtrack. And it also reminds me well, without we were sitting watching the film, and I remember you being a designated driver. To their Drome in nineteen Ninety-one. Yes. Sixty Volkswagen Beatles very much. Very much that we would right back. At least, yes. Plot level. What, what, what, what we've got here is John O, unsponsored friends. He while diverging Jonah working class families in, in Scotland Johnno is clearly kind of sort of going places possibly bombs got new fellow, who's a policeman, the movie to a new house that embracing the kind of ninety s dream and spun it lives audible flat with these appalling. Munster Birla, Fido, use a daily and seems to be spiraling down. What's paths are going to diverge, and the kind of engines on the one hand it's the effectively that last chance, Talbot time together on at the same time the police of the thrive is going to happen. Then they go into Cullman. Flattening. Respect. It's kind of it, you could say that the post, it, don't think that's the biggest cliche read in my life, the man's trying to stop the party kids. And yet they managed to invest it with so much energy. So sick truth, and so much emotion. You know, it's also showing black and white, isn't it? We've kind of been Thala judge makes you feel it. You'll you'll watching eight makes miserable is more miserable. You feel like you're watching something that is genuinely kind of important. I mean, how did you feel about the kind of the friendship between John and spanner? I think he's really crucial. I think the, you know, it's interesting afterwards, Brian Welch was talking about the costing and the they dishes and literally thousands of, of young people. And, and they were almost giving up the process, what when they found spanner and, and then he just said, oh, this, my friend. So it was very organic. The friendship you felt because it was a genuine friendship. Real life. Yeah. Yeah. Chemistry, Michael HOGAN, what you a among the pasta. Van, you, I fall orbital raider. I it was it was supreme evoke devised is it was really good. I when whenever they're so big, big comb with cars spent his a carrier bag for the cans, and they're getting excited as I did feel that routine a patient that we used to feel back then, and, and, and as I think the rice in Israeli well, done at least to say, she'll come to that in a minute, but I'm. The four in the kind of the bonding and the community spirit. I think is really well combined and, and quite you know, the, the producer introduce a fan before we saw screening of, and she said that it's a film to see with a group of friends RAV on in a room, and I think she's right? Because I think it did feel it was like, you know, I was a big grin on my face. Same my say and it felt you felt it rayvey. It would be a shame if you're going to watch it on your own. What's your vote on that bullet soda? This is essentially what you need to do. If you're listening to big. I'm guessing that you probably not sixteen years old to get together. You'll old raving crew on find a cinema with a good sound system is incredible show. Did you enjoy to speak to you? The problem level I enjoyed it. It didn't speak to me in the night, didn't go to frightening raves of them twenty five. Little young when they happen to them prohibited old when they were continuing but it was as you say, it's vodka tive, it does really well is give you a sense of being there, and you'll there you're with them. And I think what Lucy says about it's not fetish ising a movement and casting it in aspic, what it's doing is saying the real people here they went out. They had loads of fun. It doesn't it's not heavy handed about the police presence. Although obviously, this, the subplot with Jonah's stepfather being policeman. It's more subtle than that. And I thought it was incredible. It was in black and white really. Is and gives Bergman boring. Kind of what we do is in Scotland. You know, is it northern European country that bleak, there's nothing to do? We've got kinda side of what should we do? You know, Honey? I think it did incredibly well, without anyone resulting into being cartoon characters because spanner could have become comedy house, man, and he didn't it was, I'm the played in that way, with the with the costumes and stuff, as you say didn't do that thing in rivals and length. I it was Democrats on aware anything, you know, the price of Luke's pair of jeans, and so they do look very different. Christie's in there. Nets in the you know, there's sportswear spine is terrible head cut. The policeman says a crime against his heat. The film was the last sort of ten minutes or so. I think died without rising. It can you say fractured? I there's a change in its cinematography style tools, the end say that, but mainly just the, the, the, the narrative doesn't and probably for me, the friendship. So of course, that divergent along. But it just suddenly comes to a sudden halt. And then there's certain storylines that nothing really happens with them. And they do that device of doing a kind of cut up caption on the couch at the end like like they did of GT, for example, didn't want Chitty, finales, do the off final, what happened six months states. But even nuts. Let genuinely felt like lost fifty minutes. The film have been kind of I also five felt up the particularly that kind of thing was a real, my surprise in the sense that what it doesn't try to do is say, then the entire world changed. It was completely different because actually it's a small little story having to small number of beam. And the both the police stepdad strand and the fido's strand. The criminal horrible brother is a drug dealer start son, and in really quite surprising ways, but you think very differently about those characters, but secularly fide, which I was doing a great lightness of touch, and really cleverly the actors played fodder by the ways. Talking. So one of the things I really liked about it was the fact that do you don't have to really care about rave to ensure this film because it is a life stage movie. Everybody's got to a stage in the teenage years when they say, goodbye friends, and you realize that some of you may be going off to the things friends are going to be doing doing for the rest of that lies. I felt that's just well the captured that sense of that friendships can be fleeting you can share these incredibly intense moments acquired transformative and in a way, that's what was nice. It kinda stepped outside the culture that a subculture that point and said, this is what it does. This is what it does to you. Two things are gonna mention it's highly political in a kind of youthful since Europa, six I am somebody smoking in how the system works with the county. A little knows. But we've got to mention goes in the crew the girls and the revenue who fantastic trail of brilliantly, like massively alive and vibrant, intimidate in crazy ELS, who know. Janis tyrod. Decoration. Availa Clinton substrate of face fashion. Shoots and me when the face go away from London and high fashion and got into this is what's happening. I was in the country. These. Kogo missing Lund's. Well definitely soaking. Please puck in. Not enough, people water only spanner drank water. Need some water under those circumstances? Yeah, that was my only gripe little bit children's film foundation. At the end it just kind of. Just with for may slightly lost it lost a stall. But that's why I liked it because it wasn't saying the revolution happened in look here we all hours. Even thought the boys were gonna call poff at the end. There's a little moment of not wanted them to then they didn't. But then it was. The way that would have been a little office in a little heavy handed. The fun. The sense that maybe well, you know, the Pels in those days, misery, touchy feely. Thanks. But mounting only. This is the best movies come out the rave. I think it is actually better than human traffic. Human traffic possibly. It's not better than transposing, which is kind of that's ten generally couple of raves actually actually about rally. American version of American rifle. The question is all we ever going to get a sound system. Yeah. Never going to sound system. We get it. Yeah. Is system. Anyway, now in a change of pace, we always ask all guests to selected Hsun for the show, Sean, and I really get the chance all changes this week. Sean, you gets a habit recommendations. What have you got? I've bought in the Keighley forty seven with an old, track year money, but it's really good from two thousand sixteen but because she's playing if you are a London based next week. Twenty third of may in some wet trendy and hawks them. Look it up on the internet. She is incredible. She looks like a terrorist now disappoint every right? Always wears a schema or something like that. So you can only see her is in her mouth. And she she's tiny, she's from Brooklyn and chief ramps in this tiny little voice about really tough stuff. Also, she's got concept album about going to a nail Salam, that's the basics of the whole of the drama of her last album acrylic, she's incredible. She just looks fantastic. And I for one I'm gonna be finding out a blog into this gig next. We'll be I may even get my money give it to Mr. Mr. promote amount. You if she'll. I think it secretly Lorraine county. Then you just don't know it's a complete secret. Yeah, she's not a member of the CJ fish. She looks fantastic. And I think she will be a huge stone. Well, let's this is lake Haley forty seven with money. Sill Lynn cut, though, e trustee would up, though, Brooklyn home cut. Nope. Saw. No. Gresko sleep. Oh to slot. Because a malware scope, what sea lanes. France one. Moving onto what we do in the shadows, which Jemaine Clement and Tyco TT's bat on the wool mockumentary about I'm Pires from two thousand fourteen is transmuted to a proper TV sitcom features our own Matt berry as an old template English vampire Laszlo Craven's with a summit as he would be a diverse cast of bloodsuckers from across history angiography, and it's not a cheap spinoff with teaching Clement direct most of the episodes, they executive produced it and special guests include Tilda Swinton was lease knives, and Dave Bautists. What's it like it's this? It's nightfall. Hugh weekends. Very cool messed. He's carrying. Not. Yes. Can you come those this for a second, please problems with living with other Saudi vampires? I have chosen to stay with. I wanted to talk about general hygiene in. Said last night, there were all these people down, half thrown or whether they know they will have trunk being half drunk. If you've got something to say the download say it's not hygienic. Non vote is like big total key kid mall. Is my for me? I'm not a killer. I find people who are easy to kill. Verges hozeal. That's my name is Colin Robinson, and I am a energy, vampire. We either bore you with a long conversation or Don, we enrage you. Cake? Caught in the door. Have you heard so many Dracula's among pace what we do in the shadows is starting on BBC two on Sunday night. Did anyone see the original Michael, I must confess? I hadn't seen regional high saw the original. I thought it's brilliance. I seen a few trailers, the original dimensional movie is fantastic. They expand this enormously in and you get more bang for your book. So the original Tyco not the job of directing Thole Ryan Roque, which is generally thought to be the best movie. What do we think of this as a sitcom foam Than Tun into that something about Dracula's? We've seen this before, though. But Michael, how is this new and exciting thing? I really. I really often a bit sniffy about the sort of. I'm John Rao things that enter Harrison likes, particularly things through the mobile franchise, which is tease Lucy says with now. But yeah, it's took me surprise. Nobody. Let's partly because of Matt berry who I love. I thought Kedah Novak you place, the kind of the self appointed boss of the vampire, how share it was very, very funny. And the lady, what's her name Nadia? She was really meant to just like a classic kind of flash sitcom. Really? But they happen to be vampires. It's like father Ted with FANG. Yeah, it was. You know, surprisingly visually interesting. You know, they fly and they sweep and they had their fangs and their slate, you know some effects and stuff and it's very funny. They quite cartoonish characters, and it's pretty dolphin ridiculous. But roll the good does blood-stained Tara and arguments about stairmasters and stuff mix. Well, yeah. I think that's that's, that's the guy and it's real good. I mean, I remember being human, the British show, that had Russell tyvene night and Turner. And that was about a vampire and aware will ghost sharing a house, and that had a similar vibe of light the kind of the tedious day today. More news, five being a supernatural being quite funny. You know, they just they have to board up the house, the whole time and not let any light and, and just it was very good at that the detail was very good in the dogs. Brian berry does that thing where he just pronounce his one word in twenty really weirdly, and it's very funny. Chelsea ladies will intercourse. Yeah. Twenty five minutes, Bosh loves good new elements introduced for TV a colon. The energy, vampire. Graham. Oh, the vampire fan boy goes in search of victims, and as always under the cautious, and he Lucy. What did you think of the new they were? She my favorite current news. So Colin Robinson, who's the energy? We all know Colin Robinson the person in the office, who's just kind of drones on and on and there. He's in well in the office, and then he's also a Staten Island borough council meeting, just absolutely boring. Everyone today and he's at night van pass the. A really nice way of tiny thing in the way that he just literally balls. People. It's funny because it's. Because this is the measure of clever show. This is is that just in the corner of empires assisting in the back row because they've been commanded by the law to the baron to come the new world of Stockton island. So the coaches the city council to it to basically threaten the city council to hail Collins, in the cone be because it's a smog as bold of boredom. And as you resolve he's he's like a kid sweep. He is. Because it it's a classic a classic TV sitcom thing of you put together very smoker for people and immediately decided who's the one on the outside the one we all can't stand. None of us like college palm because bit jealous visibility. Absolutely. I think, well enough the subtext of the work jokes. So that the vampires are moaning because the head vampires, well, you know, you didn't make it clear that we had to home. Yeah. Place. Stuff. Under you seem to like the plot because it's a very basic block the Baroness coming applaud that what is essentially Ono, my buses coming around, but chicken. It's -tarian Vlad. It. It's sensually. It is. It's great. But what I think is clever about this is the way it transposes. Pretty much the basics cups. You're gonna budget it to this ludicrous over exaggerated, fun. Soc- gothic, Bram Stoker world. So the plot as it isn't a regular sitcom is merely a spindle hang a whole, hold of great character Bates. So the, the baron and the great thing about about the Byron is that this is not a taxi vampire, this plastic mask, the effects are really great genuinely terrifying. Some of the things that bothers incident vampires borrowed from and referenced inland in, in the bike web, who's inspired by. From boys. It was great that there was a Latino vampire. I thought that was good diversity and representation. Piz. He's not like a plastic crap. If. Frightening effects about very very. So, you know, you have you've got the full might of a proper high end, you know, TV FX role tobacco on what is this actually sitcom well, warm treads, and I really liked that. Because the data in the spending such a vast amount of money comes into any, essentially bay, Terry and June all step. So my favorite scenes is when they go shopping. Creepy paper. Creepy. I wish for the dust, which smog, it's called Clinton. Yes. Twilight twilight for the Busta with Iran is choice pay. Choice to pay throwing a coin. The other. So Plum dodger vampire is a young law. A live action role playing game girl. The great in that little kind of strand is the overblown kind of bodice ripping vampire fiction. True blood language of Niger, a C A cast into the, you know, your powers woman, you do. The how busy this lot because they kind of mean to me. They just let me. Teeny Feldstein isn't. She who's, who's a great upcoming talent who sister joined a hill, and she's in lady bird, and she plays the lead in the catamaran film. Oh, really while? Good isn't she let the anti-bullying Trump? Yes. Really three clever the way they have to find some virgin. So they go straight into the role playing. I like the fuck that she's been brought into the makes the kind of the supporting cast Cova pies. Well, then all of their familiar, kind of knowing for one reason, or another, and it seems to be that if there's any kind of a message in this massively daft show. It's that even if you ought to death Louis immortal blood soaking one of the drug dealers. You still going to get on with the staff. He's still to get on with work. The vampire today. What did you do that for we don't want any move? Empires. Look at a she plays role play games. I thought it was I three several of these episodes, behoove ring three of them anyone else stick with this and we'll give him I I just love his current as well in the front that he wants to become a vampire yet. Maybe today's going to be my day. You know we'll pay my coaches. Very good. Very quickly, establishing, who the current is our what relation they have with them, and it just motor Matteoli episode is about. The constant kind of disjunction between engine revamp. Everything's like kind of laughing in unison for bit too long. A second on the subway going through Sutton council. Great little repeating gags such as the fact that whenever they tended to about two bats. Very particular some fun with. I also think it's really well, timed, because we are now God, what is it fifteen years into the modern vampire? It's ration- you know, the kind of the, the sort of the contemporary sort of self referential horror thing. And I think it is definitely right now that the kids grow up with twenty an unfair bit older open to, you know. Mockery of that. This is very much in June. I think with the sense of Hebron, now the young people deconstructing the yeah, great. I'm going to be sticking with it. Definitely. Finally, on the show music is a personal thing. There's no accounting for taste. We've got a secret private preferences for the outside will just doesn't understand. So periodically west called guests to suggest albums that only they are. Nobody else on the planet likes not guilty pleasure. Because what anybody why she'll be guilty of pledges more inexplicable pleasure? He listened to that. I'll guess Michael HOGAN Lucia Bryant. I gotta be telling goes that after taster get your ears around these tunes. May turn me off. But now. Major AC's five goes on this week for some reason that was Lucio Brian's choice. Teena Marie with crocodile tears from the album, naked to the world, then who else could it be state struck? Michael HOGAN with the kids from fame out on the track and high fidelity lease. Let's start with the naked to the world, all about for people who are not sure who Tina Marie as upon appearances disco, pumpkin. It was Sheila. It was she teena Marie? She grew up in Santa Monica, and a white be so singer fantastic voice. She was signed to Motown in the late seventies and collaborated did some amazing collaborations with Rick James, and then she was really cooled in her contract with Motown to fight to move from that epoch. But once she got to pit records in the early eighties. She really blossomed as not just a singer songwriter, producer, and she was one of the first female Rb artists to really write and produce full albums, and the thing about naked to the world, which is the album, I'm choosing today came out in one thousand nine hundred eighty eight and I remember reviewing frenemy just thinking this is incredible. Her voice what she's doing? Your, your completely locked into this world of a woman struggling to find the meaning what love means to her in a really personal very inventive way. And I wrote this rave, it just didn't really do much then since I think people have come to really appreciate an understand teena Marie over time. And I do think there's a the fact that she was a y toughtested. On Motown people found that difficult to it was a difficult sell in some ways. And I think that going to get to toe careers in the fall as they thought about at that time. She might not have been quite a weird fit. Very nearly did size. The full wow, couldn't you imagine. Well sticking with some kind of rather unpleasant, lyrics on a monkeys with that kind of ended the blueshirts. Because he was a big Motown. I think that would have probably transfrom unable to her to create the music that she did she. I'm choosing crocodile, tears because it's my favorite truck wholemeal and I love those eighteenth since they're very. In some ways that day, too, but there's something say jacket, and so in your face about them combined with her voice, and the way she just riffs, and she's got up and down the optics. And there's this one line that just stands out lips to compare fume such rate, your clothing, but it's not mine, and she delivers it in almost one breath. And she just had this great way with lyrics. It's a very sad story because sadly she she she passed away in twenty ten and just in just in fifties. It's a strenuous. There's actually she was she was the complications. An she thinks your fellow beheading hotel really try. Jerry's a very kind of out of the usual for the world of music, this deathl- told us, he's just like weird actually horrible accident. But not wanting to on that because actually she was she made you know, an amazing contribution to that. That whole female soul era in people are Caen to bake them. Listen Morgan, Regina Belle. You know, teena Marie made a contribution, that was she was just amazing. I this was struck by how prints tested because it's like it is walking, drums, kind of abrasive kills shoot huge productions the of thing that, by the time by the end of nineteen eighty eight when suddenly the wolves had Jackie body and the idea records of amazing to be small all for just vanish overnight. I remember one of reading Wolfram, here's the Hollywood one of the laws in the in the van complaining. Like, what are they suddenly decided that records you'll be badly produced? That's what people want. Now they don't want you don't want the big big wide screen thing that we do it is it does really out of time right now so out of time maybe I could imagine this game choked on at some dude, Dawson. I'm convinced that it will find time an all took a bit about that later about, you know how records can find the time. And this just something. So to me, so extrordinary about the album. It's never going to lie down. It's just one of those that will come back. It'll find it'll find its nation. Do you push this people, you said them? I even pitched it. I think it was the will cue used to have, you know, how great albums that. Nobody loves they had an I suggested it. But I think even then it was, too. Going keep going with this stickling COPA. We'll stick on the Facebook page and listens can see when they think about his moving on Michael HOGAN, who would have sold it, you with a one full the kids from fame. I mean I come to you pirouetting on top of a yellow taxi cab as the steam polls out of the drains in New York City. Or am I wrong? This is what you do weekends. Sunny used to be ninety two. It was a big big one for the pirouetting in the league. Wilms. I mean, this is kind of Charlotte is picking this now next to Lucy's impassioned. Well in full. Speech in favour because I mean, this is basically Nostra thing for me. I came out in nineteen Ninety-two the kids from fame, just off the back of the hit TV show and me. And my mom used to watch it together. And, and we have love to it was, it was kind of one of one of the things that made me obsessed telly. Really? And, and we went halls on the vinyl coffee of the soundtrack. How I think she? I wouldn't some bullshit. And I'm I'm went back and me listen to together. And it says, it's you know, it's a bit shown key, and it's a bit like a musical everyone burst into song in unlikely places. But every now and again, I play, and it just propels me for your time and hypothetically, which the chain I picked to play here. I thing is a proper banger. It's banger. If Giorgio Gioja Royden, produced it ever would love it. And I it's, it's that kind of soaring slightly sad kind of to it, and it's just yeah, the kids from fame. They also reminded of this play the reunion concert Liverpool. I didn't know this last weekend, and it, it kind of that could lead to more really things. I roll that. Burnout multi-day was the coq au VIN enders wonder won the door is Schwartz. I know I I'm. Be the ripping a few things on the one show about people getting touch with members of the cost of kids from fame, and I think from Liverpool. So maybe they set it up there, some people up there who were trying to get the cost members together. Snowballed. This thing fell down YouTube whole this week watching fame. Yeah. And you know. I'll tell you if you remember him. He was the kind of musical. Geez. He played. Genius. I'm coming cable plant, but it was from kind of blue called background. And he's died was in a taxi driver. And I would always go save up to buy Brunei news, synthesizer and, and you're putting faces. Don't put the Jewish Princess and the road side of the tracks on the news dynamic to kind of rough rough Italian from the Bronx, LeRoy. He could. You could sell this to me by saying, Andrew, it's basically the X Mannix that would sing superpowers because that's this is the X men was basically kids favorites. From all over the place. A to virgin like a full two year old virgin. Someone up my school had a copy of this record and she wore out the grooves because she played it. Evening, because you, can, you know, they used to say it was a myth that you could wear out the moves record, she didn't have to go and buy another one. What? The appeal for this is the reason why of professional journalists tenderness with this kind of thing is direct and own. There's no irony Senate. There's no twists of it people as in musicals people sing what they're feeling without any filter of any kind. Shamelessly uplifting, as well. Code life is a celebration is one of the songs, and we've got the power and stuff like that, this EMMY nominated I still believe in may, which is big Broadway ballot. And they are, you know, th there's an innocence and purity to these songs -absolutely, but the same time that the real fun about them. And if and if you mean context, a Selena kids, having a great time singing them and really infectious too. It's not like they're shows very much let this on sort of the Disney channel, Nickelodeon nowadays, the snicker and a lot more sassy and my daughter, watches them. And, and you know that they're basically the kids from fame, but with a kind of a sheen of. Abs-. Yes. There's just. Won't listen to them. You know what's, what relationships this bad things like the end of the x factor culture that donated this list, you know. The entire Nolte's much the I mean, certainly relations that sort of thing I mean, fame academy ABC's of that was very much like that. I'm I was also surprised it was so successful I was when I was looking out and this way it taught the charts with twelve weeks in the UK. It was the biggest selling album ever released by BBC records on the second record. Basically funded life on. This is David. Second. And the second biggest city, I'm the I'm in you, too, which is extruded didn't realize it was that big. I thought was just let me and my mom and Shawn's mate, the surprise me listening to, again, was how I idealistically it sounds, particularly and killed trusted that x X factor way of doing things where it's all About Eve to beat them. All next evil, you've got to be Meena. And you've got to be driven than you gotta wanted more in this kind of Inuit. Why even though it was huge entertainment at the time did feel like wait outside this kind of the cost, particularly pretty and the Stoa maker stomach. There's a found myself welling up is one of the teachers left, and they got together and sang him. So he's sitting in this welling up with. Swaying singing star mak- soc Muncie. But. To sing to me like that. Thing is kids from fame. They didn't go on to fame. I think the series just dopes. Normal joe. And the press shorts radian gigging in Liverpool last weekend. Because it was just like a load of middle aged people. But none of them remotely familiar swint outside. He's lost his hey, you know, and stuff like that. Allow to plumbers, basically. Kissing fame, the album, only Michael HOGAN likes plain, coasts, ROY, here's v start paying in sweat, absolute. We'll come into the end of the show, which means closing time Shefa, what will our guest be discussing over book fast than a couple of keys hanging. Thanks happy, hog kill session, kicks in Lucy. I believe you have faults on the music of the past. I do I was very struck by Shakespeare's sister with the comeback and their tour and everything. And I think I was never that Fuster bound them when they were when they were first around in the nineteen eighties early nineties, but now the music kind of make sense to me, and I was trying to work this out because I was also listening to NAS ill Mesic, which has had its twenty fifth anniversary and to feels very much of the time now really kind of sank something about the time. And thinking about Shakespeare's sister. I think there's something really interesting about that Tienanment between most seller Detroit, and far here in and a whole thing about female friendships, so that the songs have this whole added amplified meaning because of their life experience and the fact that they didn't speak for twenty five years, and somehow the adds to the drama of the songs that we'd listening to them in a different way. And, and this will, so I love the really theatrical side, that seems to come seems to come out even more. So it's like we watching what ever happened to baby. Jane. But we go blown from baby Novus. Novus. Yeah. But I, I suppose that leads to my almost for soft coup question in a way and I don't know if I can answer it is point is the music. Why is it that some music it doesn't really happen at the time? But then later on it really makes sense. I'm alone in this is it like you his something with new is, what is it that make something from the past really of the time? I suppose question of, you know, you often look back all music that was made when you're a kid or younger. Through the prism of your own life experience. And that's a thing that might seem very trivial niece's your vice versa. You know, we've all got things that we used to sort of know going hold up in bedroom, and listen to it because it's so many people now and then it pops up there years later when you you shuffle because I'm so old. I've got I pulled and you don't really that much to it. I don't know. I think there's something. The that every time you listened to let's do it differently, depending on who you all have a theory is that sometimes artists make music, and it subconscious, and they don't know what the dynamics are behind the music and its own, in retrospect, when you realize what relationship they hide or going on that everyone then sees another level. Yes. And there's a lot of psycho dynamics running under that suddenly they come up magic time. The yeah, yeah, no, I think. Yeah, yeah. But then, you know, in a different kind of way ill Matzek. We remember, we will listening to it just a couple of weeks ago. And with my son, and we were driving through Southland going through go forbid, Croydon, streghten Brixton, and it just made complete sense of London. Somehow, could transpose all the, the like reflective lyricism and the mix of the music it just really fit the atmosphere today. So listens. Goldman dig out something they list fifteen draw threaten. The local equivalents. I'm getting the most out of it. Michael, let's your time chesser. Well, I was just going to talk about. What is amazing week for homegrown television? Everyone's talking about game of thrones online. You think that's eighty shut TV showed existence mine. But actually, there are four amazing shows this week. I'm this Davis is years and years. We started on Tuesdays and BBC one, which is like a family drama, with as a dispute vision of the future. It's it's it sets up. A families is really, you know, Russell Davis full time travel since. Brilliantly. Of course, fourteen years ago, and he takes us a big rambling family, and then just propels them five years into the future, and then ten years in the future, and it's really bold and subversive and original. And it's great. It's on BBC one at nine o'clock in front on, I think it's the sort of thing that would have been on ten pm on channel four decade ago. It's a bit clumsy at times, the politics of it, but it's dumb revere, warmth, and heart and humanity's great cost recommend it. And then the following evening, Wednesdays there's the virtues say mid new series, which is astonishing. I'm gonna say too much about it, because it kind of folds it's about gradually, but Stephen Graham kind of recovery alcohol ick who something happens to him. And then he ends up investigating his post and finds things and Stephen Graham. Who's just, you know, fresh out of line of GT. But she was brilliant. Is even more brilliant in this. Like it's a real career forming a brilliant, actor, I think, and some medicines best work, and then mum starts as well which is greater than if you fans round the table, and it's sort of em quiet, little gentle, Rome, com starring lithium pizza Mellon is kind of, oh, people finding love again on his third and final series. It's not working on those sitcoms that goes on forever. It's very much finishing the series. Six more episodes, and is bittersweet and gorgeous. And then on Sunday gentleman, Jack which he's brilliant as well. It's sunny, Wayne writes an period drama about I'm the, the first modern lesbian as she's been cold and Lister his phenomenal, Victorian, polymath, and bit syringes playing her life story. And it's and again, it's a really bold exciting dramas have at nine pm. Watchable tally. What's motel, Ian? What's more British tenants while they tell British tell ya? Full, you can't get that flakes. HBO. Controlled take back control. Clinton's on show. I'm getting kind of annoyed by vending machine fiction, that, that you put your money in, what you get out should be the thing, the built, new press the will. Am I haven't really enjoyed it? The ending of game of thrones. I'm we finger on why it's not really because I mean, I'm sure this is not spoiled as by now set central characters attending out to be quite quite a bad loss. And, you know, certain central characters a not leaving the showing the way you might have wished them to. It's not so much because I'm not having my kind of expectations to live it, it's, it's it is surprising. What's happening to them? But it's logical. Yeah. And filled at levied, hustle, three. But the way it's being received out in the endless babble of the internet is well, you know, they don't even the funds what we need we've invested years of all cells in this, and we deserve to get what we won't outs of it. I don't want hearts and flowers wedding. With Jon snow in deniers thing, I want, you know, Queen sassy to Sydney b. You know, held to account for all crimes in front of a jury of payers. And you know that executed some kind of cinematic white, I want something that I don't know. I want I want to be surprised. I wanna be amazed the reaction, particularly long fiction I'm thinking about venues endgame as well. There's been people complaining about what happens. He said encounters there and how that's just letting that character. But it's letting down all women. You know, the idea that, you know. Somehow because we've watched all these, we have rights to, to, to what comes out in them. And all goes back to me. I really really miserably depressing headline on some fan countryside. If he is the headline was game of thrones writers are not listening to you. That's the problem. I thought terrible sense of entitlement. I've noticed that with riverdell we really enjoyed the at first, but now it's going all over the place. I think it's because it's responding this finally service. TV. I'm a fan of a lot of these shows, and I want to be served. I wanna be surprised at amazed. Knowing me about it is many things are the way into is the way that everyone suddenly thinks they're kind of their show runner. Doing it. Wrong. Dori linski friend of a friend of the show. He pointed out quite rightly that this idea that, like, you know, script writing conference thought is now kind of out in the world. Everybody as you say, everybody thinks that they've been doing screenwriting what I want, and they talk in terms of acts and. I don't want to think about that. I wanna think about TV dramas and pulpy descended all bits on the outside, and I want to be surprised at amazing, don't founded by, and let people who are good at what they're doing do do it. Of the infantilism of cultural everyone is just basically Massey babies who want what they want. They want it now. And I mean the model thing and game. Well, right. They landed that's ending game of thrones. Isn't landing the ending in on yet? But it setting up looking looking like and not in the sense that we've been given a whole of that we didn't want in the sense that certainly this thing that used to develop at its own pace because of the way the characters had been created and actually the study that extended itself because every time, Georgia in create a new character he has to let them play out because that's the kind of rights, here's something it's at the hands of all the people while we need this die in this. No, we need to have an honest bottling in this episode. So whole stuff's going to have again, needs happen, again, we ought team, any spoilers a couple of k I'm talking STS. It actually happens twice in the in the episode gave me thirty two K. I'm talking have also meaningless battles and die of them. So full great characters. Take people changing first entirely. Yes. Yes. Stuff. Yeah. I isn't the problem really that they run a book a couple of series guy in the last two series of pretending to be pretty tough because many of them wise for all their many, plus points on as good a writer, Joe Johnson, and that's essentially the problem. But now the whole world's toys Comey on the premise. I think it's more than out story. I think that it is a massive change of or, or disconnect of what story is between Georgia? And, and a wise Jones mountain, is about just I think somebody described it as planters. He's a plumber. He plant seeds, and he lets them grow and take a very long time. So many to ten runs his policies assassinated, right? Three more books to polish off and the opposite of plaza. Plus, it all out these in the beats that needs to be missing. What needs to happen needs today here. Seventy speed for someone who can hold them nerve. Michael Hurst is a fantastic writer for that, you know, we've been watching Vikings and, and that, you know, their seeds planted like way back that Christ that injury thing. But it's taken several seasons for it to me to realize. But Weissmann creates a Hodel moment. That's all she almost your clothes in Chester. Well, as you know, one of my sidelines is drawing illustrating, and this is the time of year when it's your vision of your and six year running, I'm doing your vision live draw, which means I draw all the Eurovision entries as they happen on. On the Twitter. We used to do a system where people would pay for one and, and now we do a proper fundraising just giving page. So just wanted to give the just giving page. Out. It's just giving dot com slash fundraising slash Sean superman or one word. I will be tweeting that out and big mouth might make them on the Twitter, put little or goes to great Ormond street. Charity last year. We raised four hundred thirty one pounds all went, and the and that was double of what I thought we might get this year. Hopefully we get a bit more. It's really good fun. Have a drink. What's your vision converted enough, Madge might be on, well, which is exciting? Now seventy. Twenty eight or more paintings and the each go out to everyone. I pay for the postage and materials, and they go out and you win one. If you're part of this lucky untouched do the you are elegant. What is it? The URL is just giving dot com slash from raising slash Shans amazing. But that's fantastic to the show. Thank you, to Lucille, Brian. Michael HOGAN this and you're gonna be sticking around for the extra in a minute. For the patriot people. Sean, thank you. For presenting Tom Bullen of an adult studios in London. Thank you, for saving Achim this week and recording us really appreciate it. We're gonna planet with Mike choice of track. And hey, it's a rare saints seven inch surprise this track. Saturday boy is released record store day cheated anybody ever download to. It's about football, which is very hard to the moon's. Nearly onto the home counties album, and it's very, very good here it is. We'll see next time until next week. Don't feed the dragons? And. Thing. Let's see. The Starlight lounge presents an evening with the progressive box. Yeah, let's you tickling the ivories. He just saved by bundling home and auto progressive gonna finally by ring for that gal of yours Ugo, send my condolences. I oh this next to St.. There's. In my. Stinkier. Progressive casualty insurance company and affiliates. Discounts on available in all states or situations.

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Episode 30: Naomi Duguid on the Charms of Chiang Mai

The Trip

26:26 min | 1 year ago

Episode 30: Naomi Duguid on the Charms of Chiang Mai

"So word we're here to find drinking slice. Which is an stomach the name of the market again rot markets. Catfish with our drinks. But there they are wiggling. That's like if instead of drinking, we were taking some sort of Lucent chin, then I would actually see. Genesee wriggling capital. Go on go. So what are tied drinking snacks? Like, how do they? People don't drink without eating. So. So so hard to decide the problem Thailand and food is that there's always food within five minutes. It's people food, but also there's so much choice. That's your eyes are always bigger EU summit. It's feel it happening as you shop. I would not be the first person to admit having fallen deeply darkly in love with the markets of southeast Asia. There's just something about the slurry of exhaust and sticky air stickier rice knockoff from your league kits fresh fruit and dried worms wildlife leaves mango, hawkers and sausage mongers. They all hit you in. All the senses. They imprint right on your brain. And nobody is helped me decode that imprint and make sense of those markets more than they only do good guide savant, author and all around bridge from west to east Naomi, basically, invented one of my favorite types of book, the wandering anthropological journalistic cookbook classics like hot sour, salty, sweet rivers of flavor and taste of Persia of all the places she could've settled on earth. She settled here in Chiang Mai Thailand where she still lives half the year, which is why month ago Oso thirsty at the very end of dry January. It was nail. Oh, me I chose to break the fast with with fermented sticky rice wine, and that the lightly downmarket thing, they call tie whiskey, but which is actually rum before we have that sip, though, a bit of podcast news that I'm very excited about we are joining luminary premium. It's a new platform with exclusive shows ranging from some of the top podcasters, you know, and love all the way down to this show, which I am so gratified and a little surprised that you're listening to now there's still plenty of time to join up before we make the move. And at the end of this episode, we'll have a special offer for early adopters. And now, let's drink. This is Nathan Thornburgh. And you're listening to the trip drinking with exceptional people around the world. I have to say I feel completely indulgent to be here. You know, breaking the fast in Chiang Mai with some extrordinary liquor and extraordinary people, it feels like very ornately festive to be breaking try January like this sort of curate had end of you know. Let's manage this. Right. Is this thing that we're about to drink good enough to be sober for thirty days without the gimmick of dry January. Could I do it down payment of some sort of absence to to get here? The flight by during January and then the flight to that is true. So what are we drinking? It's not really a liquor because it's a it's a free. Message rice drink it's alcohol because Rice's for meant for thirty days, little, yeast and sticky rice, and it's made in village made by the friend of our friend of mine in a village near Fung up north of Chiang Mai couple of hours two and a half hours, and it has extrordinary I don't know whether it's because there's orchards around there, but has a sort of an almost slightly fruity aromatic taste, but it's just made out of east and sticky price credible low. That's the nose on it. Let's see cheers. Nathan. I'm gonna make a mess now. Wow. That's super good. It's like is like sake. But if you took you know, how they have like the cloudy sock as and stuff this is unfair and sock. Yeah. If you if you took like, unfiltered, it's almost like the natural wine version of sock. Yes. Like heavy and funky incredibly delicious. It starts talking very somewhere different place. And what's it called? What is it's called allow Nunca? And so coming rice. So I don't know. It's like, I don't know if this is right before like old water rice. But it's really it's really good. I don't know. It's really delicious have a problem with water. That's right. We think it stylized the labor, but I think that it's not stable you keep it in the refrigerator because you don't want to go fizzy and crazy, and so it's sort of like one of those craft brew beers or something where you drink it soon. Keep or your refrigerator to keep it stable. We're grateful for our friends that gives us these presence in. In june. But there's something pretty special about going somewhere in just having a drink that you could not get anywhere else. And you're right. This strikes me very unstable. The strikes me if I tried to smuggle a bottle on the plane, and exactly and and also sticky rice is the staple rice up here. You are drinking the taste of here just made here, but it's made from something that people depend on here. Their daily bread you are known for. And I think you probably created the John RA the something of the world that we in have it at our best roads and kingdoms, which is this sense of borderless cuisine that you can travel and follow flavors that will cross from country to country, and you've done this and rivers of flavor or taste of Persia where you're not actually just staying in Burma or Iran, but branching out and seeing what they borrowed from their neighbors. What they gave back. It also means that you've traveled the mentally deeply, and when I've seen you travel. It's been the kind of travel that is fire to, but no just the sense that your. Your path is gone to so many different places. You could be anywhere. Why not is fun? Why why not see like why Chang? My. I mean, this is just so geopolitically interesting as a location, it's it's a window on whole lot of things. So that's part of an end, it's livable. And it's so familiar, and eventually home is a place where moving around and being somewhere you're alert. And you wanna make yourself feel at home wherever you are. That's based Michael, but home is a place that you, you know, over time in a way, and that's familiar, and we're not having to work hard at feeling comfortable everyday. How long have you been here kind of deeply? Well, I we bought the apartment that I have now in two thousand and six. Yeah. And so I I came in saw it, I, you know, slept in it kind of in two thousand six on my way to flying. To China to go to Tabet because I was working on the on the great wall. And it was just an amazing thing to think. Wow. I have a base in Chiang Mai, that's not a hotel room. How exciting is that, you know, in this New Yorker profile of you, which Justin Kraemer which Jane Kramer road. I have no idea. How you feel about the piece? I just love reading that read it again recently. It's nineteen years old now. But it's this great look at a traveller in how how you came to be doing the things you're doing, and you had this great kind of explanation at some point of having been in a country unin traduced, you know, relying on serendipity for all your things. That's also taxing. I mean, you know that because you've done a lot of that. But I'm I'm I'm not a journalist. So I don't have the pressure of having to master the place. I don't have the pressure having to master. The fact I get to be there. And yeah, I don't have an introduction. I wanna let serendipity happen. I think being vulnerable, and if you're a working journalist, and you're going somewhere, whether it's Mosul or to believe c or Chang, my to get a story, you have to get it in a certain time, and you have to deliver it. So I get the luxury of just being taxed, so I can be tired. But I don't feel squeezed. I think their different. So I think I have an easy. I am lucky. It is lecturing us. It is unwanted flea luxuries, but you left a great job in Toronto to go. And do all the things that you were just talking about to be present. And ready for whatever happens, but your sense of calm going through these and you're not. In this culture, either. So you're you're coming from. Outside rightfully so I do this thing called immerse through and I just do it once a year, and it's. You know? I don't advertise it, and so it's people sort of self select they're prepared to come and go to a market different. Mark each day come in hand, cook using hand tools traditional hand tools. I'm not the teacher. I'm just the go between my tie friend furnace the other go-between and her mother who's from village in northern Thailand teaches two of the days, and then a poor old woman teaches one the yes and ethnic group. That's in Burma and was an around here a bit. And then we go up to friends farm, and we do cook Sean food Thai food, so it's really cultural immersion through food. I was taking trips into Burma once a year, but I'm not doing that right now. And also every time I do an immerse trip. It's been ten years. Now, I've been doing the ones in Thailand, I learned something even if we're making the same recipe next year. There's always stuff to learn. It's really interested. I'm not going to be master of the north tie culinary universe. Where I'm doing swim. In it. And I'm always prepared to say, I don't know. I have this year. I guess Americans. Most years, I have Canadian American might have an Australian and Japanese heads from Brazil once I mean, it's a it's a bit of nice mix. Lot small group. So it's very hands on intimate. Do you get their energy levels in the right place? Can you do that after a week? They just engage. It's really fabulous. And I think it's because for example, ferns mother who's well into her seventies. She's got a clarity about how you do it in my trouble early on was to get her not to do the work. No. If I got to say show with the stone mortar do this, and then say may in Oakley's in stop they have to do it. And now she has learned that if she stops. She's she finds a way of stopping which is that she's entertained by watching them do it. I don't mean she's rolling over the floor laughing. But she's she enjoys watching them find their way. It's really fun because this growing appreciation and serve respect for appreciation of respect for what cooks and time under doing every day. Do you when you're writing your books, you keep them in mind? You know, how faces to go along with your presumed reader sort of really good question. Yeah. We'll, you know, things like Instagram, and so on I mean that didn't exist before writing in your sort of who am I writing for him serve talking to someone in my kitchen when I'm reading the books, I think and now no, I don't think. So I think I'm still just talking to people in my kitchen, you know, and serve chatting, I do something truth bringing strangers or have been or, but it's still that same thing. And so yeah. Son, his food professionals. Some of those people who are just food obsessed or food interested you have to have a certain, you know, geeky or obsessive streakers flying Todd to us bend whole week with me. Cooking and eating one of the people who's with this. You said I don't think I ever eaten this. And we looked at her smiling and to have some more. Yeah. I think I will. What's the problem? Speaking of which it's it's no good dry. January turns into only moderately. Wettin to February. So let's let's get another survey. Yup. I think I like out you got your little, you know, I know you were unsure about it before. That's actually you were doing drug January two to check and see whether you cared enough to resume to resume. Although I did a friend of mine did point out when I mentioned that it was like, oh, well, I drink so much less over the year because I did your January, and it's like, no, that's not the fucking point. What's your we should point out that this local liquor is in Taiwa ski Tyrone sang some bottle, you know, it's homemade liquor. But it's in a so this is a very Georgian style. Into the bottle that belong to something else. That's good. That's good. That's them before drinks. Yes. Really life slayers. There's so the question is how are you going to survive? The jet lag thing for the next. How are you gonna make without falling asleep in midstream until you get on the plane on Sunday isn't two days from now, I think it was Laurie Wilbur who writer Fred had been boardings assistant was talking at some point about how boarding just said he didn't believe in jet lag. As really like telling myself as a mantra coming into this. As emailed you to thirty this morning wide awake. This like fuck it. He was just either either from another planet or. Sleep anyway, or or something, but. It's very unmistakable feeling of waking up to thirty just being like, it's time for lunch. I'm wired. I wear wear. I mean, I've never flown twenty five hours before without drinking alcohol. So I actually probably feel a little better than I would've done by usual Carney. And the show of plane travel. Yeah. Yeah. No, it's great. And a been just like genuinely happy to be here. I've actually never been to Chiang Mai before. But I did spend a month in Chinatown in Bangkok once and you know, obviously, we we'd met in me, and mar and this is a ridiculously special part of the earth. And it's quite unmistakable when you're here, even even. The softness of the Arab incredible. Really unbelievable. Yeah. So I've been trying to lean into that. Because you know, this is exactly the sort of trip that could either leave you really this associated from the joy of travel because it's so brutal and transactional to fly across the world for four days. But I'm I'm having the opposite feeling. Excellent tonic rive with that. Yes. The question always for for me who has not had the success that you have in building a life that, you know, allows these things like how do you get back? How do I manage to bring my family here? I have no answers to that. Yeah. It's tricky. I think you know, when my kids were younger, we'd take them out of school for two months. And we just did it and discu l-, you know, when I went with book fine until the last one took we did was when my older kid was in great ten are great eleven. Yeah. It's school had trouble coping with averaging the marks win three of the tests had been missed it. Really? It was fine until then and they seem to still be fine in the oldest one was thirty one. And he's you know, some postdoctoral fellowship at Oxford and didn't do any harm to trail after his parents and buses in northern Laos. Or whatever I mean there. Okay. You know? And also the thing is they learned to talk to people very agents stage because you know, they've meet people. And so that that whole sort of picking up and saying, oh where you re from oh, we headed and just being the capacity to be interested in whoever comes across your path. I think that's a huge thing. That's traveler reflex. And they got that knock because anyone told them out, but all these revive that in the LEGO do the do a gap year, go backpacking or they weren't at all interested in doing any of that because they didn't have any pent-up travel desire. You know, they just moated straight on through whatever they were doing yet. We're hopefully, Toronto whatever. I do I do kind of agree that a lot of the traumas that they're trying to avoid inflicting on their children are actually just missed lessons. This shit is not going to kill the children, and I will say the pressures that schools place on children, the vices the clamping mechanisms they have are are impressive and in. I guess the question that you really have to face whether you're going to call their bluff, but they they make it very clear, and I think that's especially true in New York where probably gets kicked out of kid, isn't there? They can do that. I mean, and that's much more benign, very provincial little place and nobody's sort of kind of Canadian nice going for you does feel like. Yeah. They just kind of daring you now. Most most of the time it's like people going on bullshit ski vacations and things that I wouldn't necessarily identify with lowing up your relationship with the kids school for but. Yeah. That idea of just how fabulous just have your kids away for a couple months late November till it's really better to reenter other kids reenter. So maybe middle November to re reentry after Christmas serving it comes together. And people must have just hated you guys for them. Them out. Winter everybody for her Rondo, they don't even know you come hand smelling. Lob. No idea what you guys up to. I would I would I would just. Yeah. The kids would have their mass. And you know, that's the main thing to do. And so say, well, why don't you get it over with? And so we'd be somewhere first week and wanted to get it over with and they do all the math for six weeks eight weeks in the first week. And then it's done when they don't have to joining it's pretty simple. And then they get to do to chess or explore things. I don't know. I think the free time is really valuable. I think kids need free time. I think as adults we need free time and how to figure that out. I'm talking like an entitled person, and but you can figure it out by saying, I don't need all the things that jammed up time produces. I will I choose to do without some of those, you know, extras in order to have free time. Tell me about this book that you work on now the next one which which strikes me as unusual, right? You know, the the first two books that I've worked on co authored with my now ex we're on flat breads and then. So you know is there. Anything more Staples in a flood and flat breads, and basic and kind of unglamorous right in this book. So now working on my own on Burma in Persia. This book is not a regional book. It's back to an essential. And in this case, it's going to sound so flat this case it salt. And it's not because I'm wanting people to the handfuls of salt is because salt is we'll have to have to survive and there's been books about sold like Mark Kurlansky book. But I don't want to write paragraphs in progress about salt. I mean, I find it fascinating. I could go on forever. I won't I promise we need it to survive because our bodies need soul. But also everywhere in the world, there's fallow seasons seasons where you know, other doesn't rain or it's too cold or whatever. And so we need to preserve food for those seasons and salt is being one of the great tools for doing. So whether it's your beans in Japan that turned me so and now total. That or whether it's salt cod because you wanna eat fish on Fridays. If you're Catholic in Europe, and the fish is not going to survive strip into the mountains. So if you don't live on the C, you have to have salt fish, or whether it's just generally salt fish in Thailand or into your anywhere. And then, of course, dairy all of that cheese, of course, have stories about salt, and blah, blah, blah. But also recipes for salt, simple, salt preserved things like wonderful commitments in salt preserved and upset and on your Saturday, which is a an Acadian from Nova Scotia and New Brunswick, but I also mainly it'll be recipes using things you can buy in the store, but that are things that go way back that are salted ingredients. So somehow, then connecting the pleasure of salts. What it gives you with this kind of anthropological evolutionary story of. Yeah. I just want to not be heavy handed it that's the trick. So I thought the way to start by not being every ended with the title of my working title. I don't know the publishers gonna long-term agree. I mean, they're they want the book. That's nice. I'm glad but is a joy of salt. Salt. Let's go there. Right because there's so much fear around. But if you sold, of course, tool for coercion a with tax people in France and create the French revolution or try to control India until Gandhi says no British don't be ridiculous. It was just going to that was the salt related to salt because the British said, no, you can't make your own salt. You can't go to the C drive. The seawater out you have to buy salt from us, and you have to pass all tax. And so again, he said screw you and did the salt March what walked in Boudreau to the edge of the sea? And you know, and so and the the nation's got rich on saw there's all these stories, and I want to go, and so I've been thinking about this for a couple of year year and a half, basically and letting my mind drift pro probably too much somebody wrote to me recently about an very nice woman named Caroline Tanabe, whom I'm. In touch with on Instagram and she lives on the Noto peninsula and their salt gathering on the shore of two peninsula. She said she lives up in the hills. And she said traditionally the villages up in the hills Greis, they intermarried the kids with someone from the flat. So they could trade rice for salt because equally valuable right? So there's an endless amount of stories of it in various places. Forced ingredient marriages. I mean, like, I guess my like. I mean, they're just trading briskets. But it's like, you know, we're the people with peanut butter. You gotta go marry somebody from the chocolate tribe. We're not gonna have our jelly sandwich. If you don't have somebody making jam. Cannot wait a minute. Minute. I'm gonna try to internalize some some of your approach the world and just get comfortable with waiting if. I. Just treat us serendipity that Margarita the salt. Hey, drink to that. Okay. They owe me. Nathan. The trip is hosted by me, Nathan Thornburgh produced by roads and kingdoms taffy Malkin yahtzee is our editor and forgive me for saying it like this. But she is a luminary in her own, right. Emily Marinov is our producer music is by Dan, the automated artwork by Adele Rodriguez and our new episode artwork by daisy. Dee. Executive producers are in Goulding also of roads and kingdoms next week will be our final episode from Thailand for a while. Sadly, we will be talking with the one and only Francis lamb host of the splendid table. He was in town like me to celebrate the marriage of chef Andy Ricker to Coon the route. We all had an excellent time very very late into the night. And then woke up early the next morning to share some Hakka coffee and talk in far to warm tones about food and life now for a word about luminary premium our future and fabulous home for this show. It is a platform for a diverse and amazing array of podcast. We'll be yours ad free. For just seven ninety nine a month. We have a pre sale offer for listeners trip. Sign up for luminary premium before April twenty second through luminary dot link BAC slash trip. And you will be enrolled to win experiences from some of luminaries most exciting, creators like dinner with guy Roz. Or personalized podcast about you from Lena Dunham or even a Brooklyn day, drinking and or date, the crawl with yours truly go to luminary dot link back slash trip. Sign up today. That's luminary dot link back slash trip to sign up before April twenty second terms and conditions apply. As a bonus you'll knock a dollar off your monthly price for the rest of the year by signing early. No purchases necessary must be eighteen years or older and a resident of the continental United States. Sweepstakes ends April twenty second two thousand eighteen void where prohibited. We could not do this show without luminary. We are so ready to going this moving and evolving. I hope you'll come with us.

Thailand Chiang Mai Nathan Thornburgh Burma Persia Toronto Chiang Mai Thailand Lucent southeast Asia Chang EU east Naomi Rice China Lena Dunham United States Chiang Mai Nunca Mark Kurlansky
Episode 37: Growing Up in the Camps

The Trip

1:21:19 hr | 1 year ago

Episode 37: Growing Up in the Camps

"The dining areas in the back in back in a couple tables. Wow. Wow. Taking stuff back to New York. Right. Can take. Tamales? Yeah. Are makes them back. Oh. One. The one. And you're gonna go with the way we'll know you can I get the much after wills. Flower. Jalapeno. Yes. Walked down the street. All right. And they swapped this place. There has to be a guard here let the one or two it's because otherwise commands. They create ill on her. If you wanna know the best thing about Gardena in south, central Los Angeles. I will tell you. I think it's Diana's I'm Mexican lunch counter with apocalyptic. Good Machaca and fresh Masa sold by the kilo. It is especially good if you can meet Yukio Masa their Yukio and artists and entrepreneur approaching his mid eighties lives around the corner from Diana's in the house where he spent half his childhood back. When Gardena was a Japanese American enclave filled with strawberry farms and put his churches for this episode, though. I wanted to talk to you Keough about the other half of his childhood the hard part the part where he and his family were imprisoned for being Japanese Americans. Locked away in man's and are in the middle of the desert for four years during World War Two man's and ours. The best known but far from the only American concentration camp, it was built to imprison Japanese American civilians during the war in all there were over a hundred and ten thousand. And men women and children language there for years locked away without trial. We're just caused simply because of their race as you will hear in this episode the damage those Americans emotionally economically spiritually was heavy. And it lasted a lifetime. Uquillas family's a big part of the actual historical record the school room that they dug out by hand in secret on penalty of arrest beneath their barracks preserved and is on display at the man's our historic site to this day. It is a brutal history. And it's also very personal. I have known Yukio for decades. He is my father in law and by the grace of marriage and miscegenation his remarkable story is now part of my children's for my grandfather was an Angelinos. Well, he was legit war. Hero from Venice beach who shot down over Europe. Do not know that there's a way to mix pride and shame into a single motion about what our country was during the war, the privilege that my grandfather had to be so brave to bomb the shit out of the Nazis and help liberate Europe. While my children's grandfather, no less man was locked away with his family in the California desert. Those. Dissonant stories will just have to live together. I guess this is the first time I've really talked to Yukio about manning are and I'm super grateful not just to hear his story. But really to be able to share it with so many of you that is pretty fucking cool. I am Nathan Thornburgh and from luminary media. This is the trip drinking with exceptional people around the world. Much in the morning to we are drinking coffee that we brought from Diana's the Mexican foods back Gardena I had much haka with the jalapenos this morning. And you know, one of the things that you forget when you're living too far from Mexican food is that combination of jalapeno and black coffee as labor combo is like it's a hell of a breakfast kick. Man, I wouldn't want to be making out with myself right now. But his. That's lists. And only Mexican food somehow Maass wave os. On. All right. We are in Gardena. So I wanted to start there. I mean, this city itself has gone through a ton of changes. And I think you know, in the twenty five years that I've been coming into this area. Whether it's khardina are Torrance, it's always different, and it's all changing. But it tells you so much about some of the stories we'll get into and just LA in general how you feel about Gardena. These days, Gordon has always been podunk city. I think it's an either this or that it's not really LA, and it's really not true suburb in that sense. It's a hob gove a mix of cheap retail stores and small industrial complexes. And I'm not sure if garden is ever going to be graduating if to higher status. This message brought. To you by the Gardena chamber of commerce. Podunk hobnob of cheap retail. If I was describing Gardena, it's what's the small city in south central Los Angeles along with Torrance, and I think especially has been this hub of Japanese American post war life. You have the Honda in the former Toyota headquarters here you have. I mean, ridiculous Japanese food that just kind of happens to be like Zuma, and you know, these spots that are really great. I'm giving the positive version of Gardena. In that sense. It's like, yeah. It it probably ain't much to look at. But the food is great, and this odd kind of historical circumstance where it was a base for Japanese American community makes it fascinating more than your average podunk hobnob. Well, the thing is I'm not talking about Gordon and Georgia since it's more like being so average so undistinguished then it's a good place. Good people. But very average in the sense that there's a lot of normalcy. Or maybe backwardness that makes everything human and real not pretentious like Venice or West Hollywood not really productive like Hollywood where they're doing all lots of creatives groundbreaking stuff. So it's a X truck farming community you mentioned Toyota and hunter, but they are in really in Torrance on the outskirts of Gordon. So I don't think of them as being part of the Gardena. So it's satori towards his the big, you know, the big son to gardenias kind of planetary thing in Torrance, also where they got the big casinos and the Larry Flint casino, which is still named after Larry Fritz? Guardian asked to own Larry Flint. Oh, yeah. Native son or just kind of the right vibe for this town. Larry Flint took advantage of Goldeen of regulation or city ordinance that said that gambling card clubs would be allowed within the city limits. As long as the were not games of chance and poker is considered to be a strategic mental skill game. So that's how Larry took advantage of one of the smaller clubs and built his little empire here. L kind of interesting story. I love the fact that LA, by the way, Larry Flint would not grace many buildings in New York City L A's still got a kind of a heart for sleaze, you know, where a guy like Larry Flint could still be bringing them in the front door. I mean, I say that we've got a hustler club on the west side highway in New York ain't like we're immune to the charms cards and boobs, but it does seem like, you know, just very special LA thing too. Be celebrating the name of Larry Flint first amendment pioneer. So the place where at now and your house where you were I here on this property seventy years ago. Right seventy I'm not I'm not trying to call you out here. But it was a few a few years back. Actually, it's a little bit more than that seventy seventy three. Maybe so what was this place like seventy three years ago, we used to and you'll hear this from other people, I guess across the country, but we used to be able to park our cars out on the street window open keys in the admission and for the house, we used to leave the front door in fact, during my high school years, I never owned a key to the front door to the house. It was a truck farming community. So there would have been fields around here. Lots of fails that's of crops where we grow strawberries, strawberries is a nickname for the community. Strawberry valley. And a lot of truck. Farmers used to produce a that crop that was before podunk hobnob became the town before sidewalks, and it was strawberry valley. Okay. But your family was not in farming. No, no. My dad was a mechanic and service. A lot of the trucks and vehicles at the farmers own for doing their commerce are their business. And I mean, one of the kind of legendary, but probably still under appreciated things about California agriculture's. There was a shift on Japanese Americans who were driving agriculture both here in the valley was Japanese American farm region. Or was it everything Hispanic Japanese Anglo? It's hard to say what I ca I don't recall what percentage of of the population. The Japanese represented bought they were substantial in that. They were doing some fairly important work for the region. For the area a lot of cabbage vegetables and a bunch of other essential food items were grown here. So it's a humble but proud heritage. They left us a and the community has shifted from that kind of town into this nondescript semi suburb. Yeah community is it is today. And it's a quite a mix of Mexican Japanese Caucasian Koreans now in big numbers. And I can't really trace the other. Nationalities. But it's very very big wide mixture, which I think is something to be proud of in that we represent a larger mentality. I think right than certainly the narrow Westside or the more intensely kind of coordoned-off enclaves. Elsewhere in in you know, it. It does feel like Gardena kind of truck farming still, but without the farming. It's just trucks and cars, and it's like, it's just this crossroads. There are sections of town. You can really say that the population is black or Mexican or or Latino in general, or, but it can't really say that if I go because it does have that mix as a hard to buttoned-down what kind of percentages are what kind of majorities are. Yeah. So in that way, it's a uninteresting town. And when you say to people out of state that you're from Gardena, they even people live in California. When you say, you're from Gardena, they say, where's that what is that? So that's that's how undistinguishable are that does happen. But I started coming to this place. When your parents were still alive, you had grown up here with your four brothers and his family had grown around this thing. And it looked. Felt a lot like east LA in parts of the city that was more familiar with. But just in terms of everybody's got ranch house with a yard, and you know, and and the driveway that that top graffiti is the same. But then right down the street. You have like you're saying of Diana's old old Mexican tortilla factory and restaurant cafe in Delhi. But then you have the guardian of this church, which is one of the larger. I mean, I think in LA county, it's one of the largest Japanese churches is right around. And you know, that that's part of the DNA of this town. I don't know. I think for me that's that mix even this morning. Just you know, guess who's ordering the wave ranchos after us just African American woman. And then behind her was like Asian American, dude. Like, it's just everybody's saying. Yes, please. Thank you in Spanish for you. It's your quotidian existence for me, it's pretty fucking magical. Like, I'm pretty excited by it. Always to be down here. There's a kind of evolution that. I hadn't thought about before. But the restaurant scene was very, very sparse. There was one Japanese style restaurant in all of Dina. We had to drive out of town to go to a fish restaurant. That's kind of an example of how things have changed was that the one down in San Pedro, no down on Pacific Coast Highway, which is essentially a on the other side of Torrance, which is twelve miles away from here. So there wasn't a dentist viable restaurant scene. There wasn't a real ethnic identification. There wasn't any. But in some ways as beauty in that. Because we didn't have what you would call a identity or a legacy. We had to live up to all all open. So you didn't have to. Displace some identity to come in and just be yourself here. Yeah. I would I would say so other peculiar ethnic thing that I remember as the Japanese the who especially those who are successful downplayed their public image and instead of buying a Cadillac, which was the ultimate Mark in no matter how much money they would have buying ozone Bill to diminish that self-aggrandizement kind of attitudes of the Japanese community was self aware or self conscious to such a degree. Everybody knew each other and any any form of pretentiousness was immediately criticized among the group or the the Japanese community. So there was this kind of sensitivity. I mean, where do you think that comes from this kind of I think our national historical legacy? Involved in that. But the other thing is that the the community was so small that everybody was under everybody else's right microscope. Right said that you will Moss's knew about the Tanaka's and everybody would talk crap and just make sure that everybody's gonna keeping their head down. And. Yeah to bring it up. It must also have something to do with the fact that the entire community did have everything taken away from them in the not distant past that point. So the idea of kind of like showing off your wealth. Amidst I can't can't put thoughts into you and your parents minds, but it feels like a logical extension of like once you've been robbed of everything you own all of your rights and imprisoned that you come out, and and are just sort of like all right, just keep your head down. Like, let's not cause much trouble or or attraction. In fact, you're hitting on a good point. Because. The years of nineteen forty two to nineteen Forty-five. We were in that prison and everybody from doctors to janitors from the highest levels to the lowest. We're all put into really communistic kind of environment where everybody was equal. In fact, the difference between a doctor in a labor was maybe four dollars a month in pay. So there was that flattening or the that the psychological effect of everybody being the same. So it would be very difficult for people out of cap to put on airs of having wealth. Yeah. And and creating a delivered separation between the doctors and the labors or you know, into social level classes. So there was a psychological impact. I think that level everybody in the Japanese community, then we're throwing. Into larger community, which is undistinguished. There was elements social element that kept everything flat in gray. I think let's talk about before the war. You would grown up in Boyle heights. Right. Or is that more the area that you've been on the other side of town that would take me to the age just after kindergarten? So that would in first grade, my memory, isn't really substantial on of to tell you any stories about that. Except that I remember the FBI agents coming to our house one night dismantling the shortwave radio without asking for permission or anything. Also, it was a sudden intrusion that even I as a kindergartener recognized as a severe offense. So before the war, you were living employer heights. Which at that point was also kind of a mixed neighborhood is kind of Latino and Japanese American and Jews Jews. That's right. Yeah. A lot of the big deli action. Was out there. So right kindergarten five six year old somewhere in that range and all of the prewar hype and hysteria is like really getting into full motion. But that's the first member you have of what would eventually kind of overtake your lives was FBI agents coming into your house. The one thing that I remember so often we get into conversations with other people friends about what our first memories are. And what their composed of and that was one element that stands out is a bubble. So that's not just your first memory of like the troubles in the incarceration in all of that. It's like one of your first memories period. This kind of a bland funded difficult to separate and distinct with the two right because that was your earliest childhood was marked completely by all of this stress and trauma of what was going on. But that was right after Pearl Harbor. So it's not. Prewar, but the other thoughts that occurred. That are connected with that is watching my folks sell off all the household goods in one night about five or six days prior to our evacuation or they sold off the car the furniture and everything else in the house. I do remember the vultures that came to our house knowing that we were stuck and we had to sell an and clear off everything we own because our parents could only take what they could carry. So you can imagine if you had to do that today in your house or anybody else for that matter. No matter how rich or poor where you're having to dump everything and your neighbors know this and they're offering you the lowest lowest possible price for your valuable goods. You're the things that you hold dear. And for some reason. Even though someone that five or six years old is not really thinking about financial things that was a kind of stand out in my mind that really you could tell that they were just getting endlessly screwed by their own neighbors. Yeah. Who knew exactly that they were in Volna Rable position, and therefore came to take all of all of the goods that they'd had. Right. One of the things that occurred to me a little bit later on is when I heard about what the Jews went through in Germany when they were instructed via the German soldiers. They get on the train, and that everything would be okay. And that they were being protected by by this act. Those Jews who those people who accepted the word of the German soldiers got on the train, whatever trepidation. They may have had at least the they were trusting enough to get on the train, and the parallel that I find is that our parents didn't have any guarantees that. They were gonna come back. They didn't have any idea of how long they were going to be gone. They had no idea of whether the government would have evil intentions. And so there was I think a critical moment in time when that trust was passed onto the government. And that was I think an exceedingly large decision that. Any person would make you can imagine. If you were told to get on a train right now today for your own good. Whether the government was doing this master plan to protect you from harm and all you had to do is get on the train. They would take care of you. I don't know if you could handle that amount of trust. I don't know how many people would rebel and going to armed conflict. But are people very quietly went on the train, and they were not able to come back until four years later. I think the analogies is it's also hard, you know, for me from my circumstance, maybe it was different Jews were treated differently in this country. But I'm basically just a white guy. I am the government, you know, not overstate it. But you know, your parents would have been coming from a perspective. Where even though your mother was born in America. Yeah. Right in Hawaii. Yeah. So you're, you know, you're talking about American born people, but she must have always had in her mind. The soundtrack of like, this is a society that is still has a problem with us on some level. You know, that sees us as different like that. I don't know. I mean, I certainly never came up when I was talking with their, but that's different context on some level. And and plus even before Pearl Harbor there was this kind of like build up of racism, you know, transposing the shit that was happening the Pacific on Japanese American. So that reaction must have been colored by the sense that they didn't have the power to just be like what about me and my rights. You know, there's a kind of history that I don't think my mom got very much involved in my dad, maybe more. So, but what I'm talking about is the respectable LA times used to be one of the papers here. The Los Angeles herald, which was a the publisher the famous publisher who created Hearst Hearst of her. Family. Yeah. Anyway, they were even worse. But in a daily ration they used to be remarks about the yellow peril. The yellow monkeys the yellow scourge in reference to Japanese in general, but because they're American papers they net effect of that kind of vitriol fell on my parents. And it was a daily thing. I can't give you an example or a story that typifies that environment. But it was a really nasty time to Japanese. So for for today to see some any Asian anchor ladies on television and disproportionate numbers is a good thing and to see but on the other hand for me as a historical memory of of the crap that used to fall on us. That's a. Really, startling inspirational change that the white people have allowed us to grow into bad side of the story is matched with equally. Maybe disproportionate good side to this. So it kind of. I mean, one of the things I mean, it's not just white people allowed to happen. But in various in kind of important ways Japanese people also fought for it. I mean, a lot of when you're talking about the internment policies that people are dealing with on the border. Now, there's Japanese-American precedent in law of lawsuits that people took, you know, either during the time of the war or afterwards to fight for their right? You know, they kind of echo still so you you were in Boyle heights. There was a fire sale. You know, kind of egged on by your capitalist neighbors, and that must have been right after they'd been served their papers. Right. The that had gotten orders, and at that point was can born was your youngest brother born, or is it just the three you can was born in the camp. Okay. So it's two parents three young boys with a fourth who would be on the way. Do you have any memory of of the actual transport? That's kind of funny. I've got vague foggy memories of being on the train and then. Coming off the train into virtual sandstorm because when was blowing. There was nothing to hold the sand and the issuance of bare minimum of clothing that we were passed on one of the things I got as a five or six year old was a pair of pants. Which belong to horse riders? I can't remember what you call those like Japs chaps with a flair and the hip just below the hip of the World War One soldier. So this was the closest match appear pants to to squad little six year old. And for some reason that stands out in a kind of vignette, and I can't put it into sequence. But it's it's there it's kind of memory bubble. You know, none of these camps was the place you actually wanted to be but man's ours. Particularly infamous location, and that's the camp that you guys were sent to describe where it is what it looks like there's stretch of line. If you go skiing at mammoth mountain. There's a stretch of line prior to getting up going up into the hills into the mountains on the low flop plane, which is adjacent to desert. Death penalty other. And there was I think a b twenty four bomber airstrip on one side of the highway and on this flatlined. This just below Mount Whitney really desert with very very little growth of sagebrush anyway. So they laid out barracks for about ten thousand people, and it was broken up into segments of thirty two blocks each having about twenty sub barracks and. What we wound up in our family. Was a twenty by twenty foot space, and we share that with a two families or there were two families there. So in essence, they are about eight people living in the twenty by twenty space while four the first I think year or so and meals were served three times a day on time. And if you got a plate, you miss the particular meal, but one of the interesting things that happened in this arrangement is that during mealtimes the families would not eat together. The kids would join their peers and leave their families because that was more fun for them. And they family structure started a fall apart because the father of the family didn't have the control over his family kids were running off independent on their own being silly or whatever play part of the. Family dynamics or the structure got a pretty good hit there. And so that I think changed the way a lot of Javanese American teenagers grew up due to that particular impact on their daily schedule small as it may seem I think pretty significant now when I met your father he was already quite old and not the figure that used to be. But from everything I've heard about him from you and your brothers. You know, this was an imposing person for whom this thing that you're talking about losing control. The family must have been a particularly challenging thing. Right. I mean, it's the, you know, the father was the father, and and I don't know if that's, you know, specific to your family or across Japanese American families. But then to all of a sudden, I mean, the whole thing is an entire drama of powerlessness on some level that must hit the guys in a very specific way. The concept of powerlessness pervades from. Top to bottom from young old, and I can't speak for him because he has his own legacy of being away from his father who migrated to the US when he was a teen. He missed his father. He during some thank critical years in his growth, and so he himself I think probably fell in neutered even more because he didn't have a deep history of knowing how to be a father. He himself didn't have a father figure or authority figure. But in my case, I think back in the psychological effect that had on me was our people are jeopardy's Americans those people that were in camp who look like me where essentially powerless without pride. Because if you think about slogans like, give me liberty or give me death, and you watch all of the Hollywood movies. About how he rose don't kneel. But re would rather fight than and die than be subjugated. That kind of underlying the concept went completely against what we were experiencing ourselves as people so the bottom line assessment, then I took this deep underlying psychological impression is that. My people weren't worthy didn't have the guts and were inferior and locking and moral courage. And maybe that was a sensible thing to do. But it was not something to be proud of to be going along with a really dirty evil scheme, and that we would do that just to survive. Whether it's maybe irrational for me to think like that. But that's that's the impression in that's brutal. You know, for that to be the way that you look around at yourself and your family, and and have that take away, and you know. I guess my counter argument from having the great kind of like rear view mirror on this. Of course. Look at the four forty two. You know, like, yeah. Soldiers added something to redeem a lot of this. And so even though I wasn't of soldiering age. And while I can't take any credit for what they did. I still feel point of pride and a gratefulness that that there were these guys who made that difference. Yeah. It's like. Yeah. It's really painful to hear you talk about it in those terms, the long range big picture is that it's all coming out. Okay. You know, it's been full like tears mode. It's not not not for you to make me feel better. But it's just you know, I think the combination of me knowing you as long as I have and having the love and respect that I do for you. And and just to hear, you know, like, we know the history, but I think there's. Does the large part that's missing when you really like actually dig into it. And you know, it's one of the reasons why I was also a little hesitant to ask you to talk about this stuff because I know it's not for no reason that this is not something that that you talk about often. I mean, you didn't nothing's off-limits with you. But you know, this is not like you don't go around telling people that I tell you about the time that I was that I grew up in a prisoner of war camp. And there's a reason for that. So, you know, on one level, I'm sorry that I'm making you go through this. But I also like I know that not enough people know, I'm really glad to get it off my chest. I'm glad for the opportunity created to you know, say these things to bring these out of the closet. Because in the larger sense, I think it's been a positive point that the Japanese Americans have not tooted their harm have not brought this issue up that that they've allow the American public to absorb this on their own on their own time in in their own way. Because if we had done otherwise advertised and promoted and put this crap in your face to the American public. I think proportional amount of resentment would have been the unintended consequence or the result. So there is a reason to suppress in chew this on our own. But on the other hand if the time is appropriate. And if if a situation calls for it, I do this. This doesn't hurt me actually gives me a incentive. To recapture some of the things that are almost forgotten even in my own mind. Almost forgotten the facts of it do shock still, even without you know, you you having to advocate for the fact that they're shocking, you know, the facts of, you know, entire families of American born, and, you know, in your case, you know, the children of American born citizens being sent away to go live under armed guard for four years in the desert because of the way they looked. I mean, basically, it's like physiognomy. I mean, it's something that people should should certainly be able to chew on their own without without nudging from the people who went through it, you know, and again just combined. I think with the four forty second which I forget the exact formulation. But I think per capita that talion had the most casualties of any, you know, in the most the most medals of honor of any in the second World War in part. They were through. Known against the German guns time, and again, and they continually made the point the history of the forty second and the hundred thou- in is really outstanding. But it's not really known to the American public. American media has. Gone along with the military authorities in suppressing publicity favorable news about the four forty second. And as time houses that's loosening a little bit. But one thing that stands out and most Americans don't understand there were nineteen medals of honor passed out by President Clinton. And this is I think about forty or fifty years after the fact medals of honors that were awarded all in one shot. So that occasion of nineteen medals of honors being given to nineteen people would've I think deserved one hell of a front page notification to the American public about this particular commemoration or event, but the general understanding is that the military the authorities behind the giving the. Wording of medals of honor suppressed deliberately suppressed these awards because they were given to Japanese Americans. In other words, they didn't want to diminish or sidetrack or or send the spotlight away from true Americans their metals Abouna, and that these were given out grudgingly. After such a long passage of time. I think it was getting so embarrassing that they had to do this. So it's something that still remains right? This underlying bias or you can't draw a line in nineteen forty five and say thank God that's over. It. Just kept going and continues. Right. I mean, your your feeling about the media, and and you know, the sort of military suppressing this I feel like there's a way that people describe American GI, you know, in World War Two, and it's it's it's saving private Ryan. You know? You look, and you see the names and the four forty seconds one. But certainly you see the Hispanic names among those who fought and died Puerto Ricans, but the thing about the four forty second. And just Japanese American soldiers, they were all volunteers at a time when their families were incarcerated and intern by the government, which is just such a mind fuck to imagine having done that. And you know, you you ended up having fortunately in less dire circumstances than World War Two. But you you wanted to military service. Also, how do you make the move from seeing the things you know, that you saw in having as keen and understanding as you do of the dynamic of the government, and what it done to you? And then go into service. There's interesting conflict in my own mind about the four years that was spent in concentration camp and the next six years devoted to serving out my military obligations, which was the the draft. So you were drafted drafted. Yeah. So it seemed to me that I was paying a real disproportionate amount of of my life service life to service of the government four years. And then the six would be ten years out of my life spent being fed by involved. I'll right involuntarily. In the care of also government while I resented having to be drafted. I think I've learned a lesson that lesson is this that all teenagers, especially males should do time in the military like the Swiss do so that they have a sense of investment in the country in and appreciation of their citizenship. And what this does is it inhibits congress from waging war or the president from waging war because if every kid in the in the country is to be part of the fighting there's going to be much higher resistance or wall to crossover in order for any thority to create a war. And if a war does happen that the population across all ethnicities. Contributes in proportion to their population that they've all got chips in the game. And that there's another thing that is happening today in today's society, where groups ethnic are separated. There are partitions of economically financial status. And that if we all had to do this a mandatory army duty, we would have I think a fuller richer sense of the Christian appreciation of our differences, and our similarities, and that there would be I think much much clearer picture of what it means to be an American to be an American citizen. So while I resented having been drafted I think without knowing it was one of the really strongest civil listens. I've civic lessons I've learned and the experience of, you know, the time that you've talked to me, and you you would work in missile batteries. Is that right? You know, the experience of being in with people of every. Ethnicity broadly, wasn't just making impact on you. But it's very different than being locked up in concentration camp with a bunch of other Japanese Americans you were actually teaching them. What happens American people are about? 'cause I'm sure a lot of them didn't know, and we're still had this fucking hangover from the war and the racism, then so it it kind of works both ways. And then that does make different than being at man's and our does big difference. So I thought about what I was learning. But it is in truth fact, that my presence in the group or the company army company that I was in was being affected by being there to what extent I'm not sure about hopefully. No, they they had a good realistic representation of what Japanese Americans are. I mean, we're we're talking about you as a member of a group. But of course, you are very much your own person. And you know, they would have they would have gotten to know a very artistic are casting dark minded good humored individual who happens to be Japanese American. And I think that's the place that you want everybody to be able to ride to see what is human just a human and Hasek's of a bitch that they ordinary that I'm less on board with. But so you would talked about starting to forget parts of of the experience of man's are but man's and ours now a museum of park. Preserve have you been up there? Not no last fifteen years we used to drive by when we went skiing at mammoth, and there was one side trip that I did take to visit grounds, but did you ever? Take Juliet did you ever take your daughter? I don't know if we stop there or not she would have been just like a teenager waiting to get to go ski or something, right? And probably bought there isn't a lot to see the ground has been leveled back to its primeval state. Hospitable land always was there's a little bit of vegetation. But for the most part. It's it doesn't really evoke specific. But they do have some barracks. That are still there. Right. I think the left a one or two buildings left standing and one of the things that I heard about because you've mentioned being in twenty by twenty barracks with two families. But one of the things I heard that they have there, and I you know, to my credit, I I haven't gone out there either. But you know, one of the things that they were talking about was there there is a preserved seller in one of those barracks. That's interesting story. I mean, I don't remember visiting the remains. But what what I do. Remember is when the seller while they basement was created our parents in a few other parents thought that it would be important valuable for kids to to retain literate capabilities in Japanese language, so they would be teaching the alphabet and some basic stories, but in essence it was. A grade school for first to fifth or sixth graders. But the hitch was the government forbade teaching and promoting things Japanese there were specific regulations that would have gotten our parents arrested had the authorities found out that. Some parents were actually teaching head the dusty nerve to teach Japanese language against the dictates of the the government or the management. So these families got together and dug out cellar by hand, essentially in secrecy in order to create an environment where the kids could learn Japanese language because that the adults would have been arrested if they were seen teaching them how to write and read Japanese, right? So it was subterranean room. I'm not sure how big it was maybe ten by ten essentially one small classroom that was hidden from the authorities in this was underneath your Barrick underneath our our neighbors Barrick, I was surprised to find out that the thirties somehow found it after we left and memorial by I guess, they're maintain. Winning it. Have to go and see for myself. But I've been told that it's been kept. That's incredible. There's not much that could speak more directly to like, the the perseverance under those circumstances to dig out your own damn classroom in the desert sand and to do it under penalty of arrests. And listen, this is like the experience that I had with my children that you had with my wife of like trying to get them to go to Saturday school and learn chap knees and finding that they're not really that into it. And you think about like what your Saturday school was what your parents had gone through to to make that happen. What I what I, you know, it's not a fair comparison just the way that, you know, a I'm fortunate that my elders who had fought in wars when I was a teenager weren't constantly telling me that they had fought in wars when I was a teenager. You know, I can't can't badger our kids for not having been imprisoned in a concentration camp. But the, you know, the relief is fairly stark on on that level. But yes, so that's the underground. Classroom. That's that that is that I've heard about that still there. How did you do member? How you even lit it. I mean would just been like I mean. How do you? Learn underground. It's I don't remember. It's possible that there are guys in our block that had electrical electrical service experience, and they may have tapped into the electricity from our barracks and run a wire downstairs, I'm not sure. So your time in man's and our was from first to fifth grade from forty two to forty five. Which means you would have been about ten when you guys came out. I was in the fifth grade when we came out. So this is one of the things that that is remarkable again because you, you know, and this is not true of your brothers. Like, you you were quite old by that time. I mean, this is like this is more than half of your childhood had already passed by the time, you got out amends, and are do you? Remember those moments those days when you were being released, and and you know, is that a stronger memory because it happened when you were now ten years old I have memories, but they're not chronologically in order. And I think it's more like a shock impact that his creed memory Vogels in. I can't put them in sequential or chronological sequence. Are there other memories from the camp that you have there was one that I remember? But I didn't really understand the impact of it. When we first arrived. We happened some friends and I happen to run across one of the border or the fence guards. And this guy was sometimes talking to two or three of my peers and in the part of the conversation. He showed us is handgun that. He was carrying and being small boys. We were very interested in the piece the carrying, but it was not government authorized a piece after after analyzing we went through it was apparently his own personal Goan his own personal holster and. He was apparently volunteer or some kind of unofficial guard, but he was doing guard duty on the Prunier and keeping track of people who might Choi to escape cut bless the volunteers like these patriots on the border like, you know, what I'd love to spend doing in my free time is carrying a weapon around children to make sure they don't run into. I guess he was more interested in showing how you know, what a brave macho guy he was and showing his gun. Then he was in any other is self glory or self aggrandizement. I guess and the fact that he took that position as guard. I'm not sure today whether he thought that we were dangerous people or not, but he appeared to enjoy keeping his trapped showing you his weapon. Could happen to. If we didn't listen to him. Well, yeah. I mean, there's been a lot of I wouldn't know if there's been a lot at certainly there's people who you know, quibble about. Oh, well, you know, just how tough was it. Or how bad was it, which I'm sure your favorite conversation? But one of besides the, you know, all of the other facts these were armed guards. This was not of you know, this is not a voluntary retreat for, you know, desert spa experience this Slyke armed guards twenty four hours a day. No time off the base camp. Except in rare. That was in the beginning. I the authorities. Got wise started a assess for themselves what the danger risk laws, and they've I think, Freddie, while realized that we were passive agreeable non-hostile, and that we were not a security risk. And so they relaxed a lot of the armed guards. I think fairly quickly. At the beginning was where a bunch of there were too many unknowns. I guess they had to carry guns as a sensible precaution. Because they didn't know what the potential for a riot or disruption would be. So that's kind of understandable. That's what like I say. Some of my memories are loose. And they're not coherent in the sense that there's a mess underlying story because it took me a while even into my adult life middle-age before I started to realize that they were other implications that were reverse little profound, but hidden that I had to do self cycle analysis in Oded understand some of these things that had impacted my psyche. Like what I mentioned this briefly before. But the idea that a Japanese American could become a world ranking? Scientist or a world ranking politician or somebody that had that our group that are ethnic group could produce the equivalent of the top minds in the in the in the world pretty well got us. I pigeon hole myself into this group that was identifiable to me by that group that surrounded me in the in the camp. In other words, we were no more than that that that was pretty much our level or our position society, the feeling that you could not achieve the great things that other groups might be able to achieve because of the experience that that was kind of ingrained in your head. Right. But the thing is Hugh live among these people day today, and we've all been leveled. So that the top guys are making twenty two dollars a month in say the Labor's making seventeen dollars a month. And everything is been leveled there's nothing to distinguish or to exhibit the brain power. The Britain's or the skills of the talents of these people there, we were just generally flattened says it was a gray mass really undistinguished people. That's the impression that I got that. That's that's said to me. That's what I am. No better. No worse. But how do you deal with that? I guess except in my life of a lot of mediocrity that I shouldn't have that. I someone should have kicked me an ass, and and only hey look higher because that's you know, my mind has been distorted by that camp experience. It's very very subtle wages say there's a a call it a calculation and a analysis or a reasonable assessment of what affects what damages what for that matter what the privileges are benefits that were derived from that experience. And it's in that close close examination where where find the net effect of that experience. You also had this in throughout your life, which I think has been you know, I don't see a lot of mediocrity. There. I see a lot of the life of an entrepreneur and someone who's always striving to create something. You know, different and just build things. I think throughout that lake. You've also had moments where you've intersected with Japan with the the country in the culture there, and I'm always sort of fascinated by your experiences there, and you know, as we've started to go there more, and and you know, it's been more a part of our family Japanese-Americans are in this kind of weird dialogue also with Japan. Particularly people like you who had worked with Japanese corporations and spent time over there where you know, you've got your own shit to deal with vis-a-vis Americans. But you also have another set of vis-a-vis Japanese in Japan. How is that played into, you know, into your life because when you go to Japan, you were just America's hell, basically, you know, certainly your mentality. The way that you approach your life and your family, and your work is all you know, absolutely thousand percent American. And then here, you're you're hyphenated. I mean, it's kind of that strikes me as a catch twenty two. Maybe that you've kind of been in involved in. There was one occasion where I was. In the surroundings of several Japanese businessmen in a conference room, and it happened to be on a Friday afternoon. And I said TGIF and the businessman or one of the guy said with a real curiosity. What the hell is that? What do what do you say? And I said thank God, it's Friday, and he recoiled from that. Because his mentality is I'm happy, and I'm grateful to be an employee of this particular company. I'm really grateful, and I'm indebted to my company for providing this family and my livelihood. And my self worth is tied up with my company, and I'll do anything. So what I'm giving you here is a little backdrop of what his viewpoint is. Because what I said. Was heretical. I mean, right. I'm saying God damn of getting rid of this. I'm going off on my own. I'm getting away from you guys and to hell with work, and it's time now, and and the difference in mentality between the salaryman and the American in me, even though I'm Jeff unease American was so stark that I I was shocked myself that he was reacting this way, and I got to after a good deal of self examination. I got to understand the difference between the American mentality. The Japanese American is opposed to Japanese Japanese. So that was one that sounds like the moment at at the the nadir of your Japanese his like where you and he both. Agreed. You not a very Japanese, dude. Like, you know, that's not a sentiment that I see coming off of, you know, I'm so grateful to this great company for. The look giving me the chance to maybe work on the weekend, even sort of characterized what his point view us. But I. Don't think that it's far off checks out. Yeah. The true feeling of many, many, many if most of the majority of Japanese salaryman, I think that's their attitude. It goes a fairly deep one of the complaints. Is that the salaryman are getting sick, partly because they don't take enough of their vacation time that do and they are locked in by peer pressure and by tradition. Not to take vacations which are considered to be a little bit, frivolous and selfish, and it's killing them there. That cultural imprint is a fairly substantial. Yeah. Yeah. It runs deep. Yeah. So it's not just this guy. This guy was I think Representative of the the larger culture when you guys came out of the camp, you went to Salt Lake City, right? Why was it true? You could get out earlier if you didn't go back to the coaster something, I don't know if that was the case at man's, and are as I mentioned earlier, the very very first months. There was a lot of suspicion and. A doubt as whether or not we were a safe community or not. Then why is there people who are managing the camps came to understand? And maybe they reported upwards that we were docile we were not not secure is that we were patriotic that we were deserving of a better chance, and they brought down a changes in the regulations that allowed for people to leave the camps if they could secure employment outside of California outta the secure zones which meant that away from California, Oregon Washington, and if we move back to even one state Utah that that would be okay as a standing policy. So my dad taking lead from a friend found a job as a mechanic in Salt Lake City, and once he was secure of with his employment wages living. Space. He came to get us in a model t automobile, we loaded up our family possessions, which were were which hell of a lot we and others everything we own household possessions could be looted on to a model t automobile along with the six of us, and we drove across Nevada into Salt Lake City. So he came in he liberated you from the camps in his model, t right? You just been waiting there for him to. But that was like four years into the thing. So there were a number of people who took earlier escapes from camp by going to Chicago, New York, and other other places you said, you know, ask why Salt Lake City so make city was fairly benign friendly place for us during those years. So my recollection of Salt Lake City is pretty positive and friendly. You would gone to middle. School. They're essentially. Yeah. So I went from fifth grade to seventh eight somewhere like why did the family come back to Los Angeles? I'm not sure about in some ways there were reports about communities in in California. Raising a big banners? I can't remember the exact wording in general keep out stay out. Don't come back. You know, short slogans that showed antipathy antipathy toward don't. Well. These are probably the mother fuckers who were in your houses in driving your cars around this train, you know, exactly beyond animus, they probably had a very like selfish financial motives for trying to keep keep you from coming back. I like to think that the are. They were the Donald Trump base for the time as that nomadic America's steel Japanese American shit, again, that's that's their get this understanding that there's a hard core element in American society. That's not going to change that this kind of intelligence going to be handed down from generation to generation and that they they will. Always be there. I mean as yeah. As a side note that it just seems to be such a recurring theme that after the great I would say liberal panic after twenty sixteen after the election of Donald Trump. I think told on itself a little bit is like if and it's why was a white liberal panic and a lot of ways because I think a lot of other communities starting with, and and you know, especially Japanese-American community had a hard time saying this is not the America. We know you know, like you have seen that America before. And it's not, you know, it's not a it's not a new enemy the way that it felt I think for a lot of white liberal America. You know, America's been doing this shit for quite some time. Yeah. That's the which the larger perspective. I when I start to understand that. I think well, it's no big deal. I mean, we're not the only ones who have been subjected that this kind of crap and that it's probably going to continue. You is as long as there are people who compose the the Trump base that mentality is I think an irreducible fact that society has to deal with and compromise with and. Work with understand. But to spite these banners, saying get out stay out. There was a return to Los Angeles. That's maybe kind of a mystery. I never discussed this with my dad why he felt compelled come back to California. I don't know if there's some kind of habit pattern or some other investments of soul or mind or psyche or whatever that was made prior Dr being jailed, or maybe it has to do with being with other friends, well from prewar friends that and that's you know, that's the thing to bring it back to guard Dina that is kind of fascinating in in a way there were Japanese communities before the war, but they seem to more dispersed. And then after the war, they really came right here to guardian in Torrance, and that was the center without knowing like your father's exact intentions, and and. Why it happened? But it seemed like that made more sense to be more of an enclave right after the war. So personally, I don't like the idea of being committed to whether it's directly or indirectly to a community. I don't dentist myself with an ethnic community. I I much prefer being in a group of peers who think philosophically and just in general of match my character or arc or people that are comfortable to my way of thinking, regardless of the ethnicity. So for my dad to bring the family back into the community that was here pretty much before the war. I guess is natural to him. But it wasn't really something that I you weren't feeling in fact one I was in Salt Lake City. I was the only Asian in junior high school there were no. Chinese no Filipinos. No. There was one black kid. So that was the minority. Representation. Everybody else was Mormon. Wait sounds like you felt almost more comfortable being in that much larger group and being the only Asian kid versus immediate when you came back to Salt Lake City. I mean, like we said we're right down the street from the Gardena, but his church your father was a huge member of the judo community and the religious community here. So you were immediately tossed into a very Japanese American environment. And you weren't you weren't that into it. No, I revel in the fact or I think this this period was a shape forming period or character forming period. Wherein I took my existing surroundings and made that my norm. So that when I came back to southern California that was not my norm, maybe feel uneasy and in many ways. To be here. And even today, I don't I would like to see the world is homogeneous world where there are no ethnic lines in. There are no historical cultural stories that are you know, that our legendary that are part of a larger these myths of nationhood and ethnic identity as cute as they are a lot of I think they are the source of a lot of grief and and hostility. I'm gonna go ahead and take your very special moral authority to to believe that. I mean, I I think nobody nobody has to has to question that you've seen what can happen with with that. And it's interesting kind of reminds me of my grandmother who was Jewish, but came, and, you know, fortunately here in the United States, but just having watched, you know, being an Oscar Nause ju- watching from abroad as the holocaust is going down. You know, she became quite the Christmas Jew throughout her life. Life. You know, like she in many ways just rebelled against all sorts of identification with Jewishness like, I don't know if that would have happened anyway, just for being in America. And you know in the fifty sixty seventy s you know, but, but that was certainly there was a logic to it that I could certainly see that. I think her kids see also is just like Faulk that didn't end. Well, you know, like the the idea of carrying these identities with you is dangerous to person and dangerous to civilization even dangerous to the Germans. I mean that didn't then well for them with you know, for all their crimes like that. You know, this sort of Ethno nationalists myth making on any side is trouble lessons that we seem to be kind of forgetting all over again. Yeah. At this point. A side of LA. There's an Armenian monument to the holocaust. They're holocaust. And I think for all lodger purposes, I think maybe symbolically the retention of some kind of fixture or icon is appropriate, but what I really really worry about. And I think maybe our group has contributed a little bit to say that let bygones be bygones that that are problems that have been imported from the home countries into the United States, where we've got all this me, you know, bloody mix of ethnicities, and if if everybody brings their historical arguments and their griefs and their problems here, you know, we're going to have one God awful society of balkanisation infighting. And incomprehensible Messa. Well, the way that you are still here in Gardena as it becomes a thoroughly Korean town speaks to the ability to all just be American together. Not to bring any of whatever that old world baggage. I don't know how how the Koreans who are actually coming from Korea. Here look at it. But that's the great promise of America can off your that erasure from those problems. I mean, you talk about the Armenian monument, and in general, the the way that the forgetful nece almost around the internment did your parents ever talk about it. Did you ask them to to how did they pass on? If at all like the memory of what had happened. There's very interesting phenomenon at work here. And that is I don't know to what extent survive. Vers of the whole, you know, the holocaust in Europe. There are similarities parallels. But the people who the adult people who are intern in the concentration camps were very very reluctant to talk about their experiences their feelings, and I'm not quite sure why it's not just my dad who is a stoic was a stoic much kind of guy who. Didn't talk much didn't show much affection or feelings or emotion. In fact, I don't remember him ever kissing my mom, or I don't remember him hugging me or hand holding with any of my brothers. So he's an maybe extreme example of non verbal witness to would it would have been on for him to sit down around the campfire and say, you know, let me tell you story, but he wasn't alone. It was the entire community that had this kind of response. Same kind of of attitude response a position that you couldn't hear what went on in their minds. And if you ask them you'd have to pull teeth in order to get them to to say things, then when they did I think the larger. Significance. I think was either sidestepped or just not brought up maybe because it was bordering on the on the edge of bringing physical rebellion against what happened. I'm not sure why. But it was a fairly an explosive. Or heavily loaded topic that few or willing to open that can of worms. I think that's the intimate. It's a phenomena. I I don't understand. My example, is I think I'm more willing to talk about that than most other people even of my age, even people who were just kids still don't want to. I mean in this is this is the question. I think also four I mean, you had mentioned how you don't wanna feel like a member of you know, particular ethnic group, you have lived your life as an American and as a result, you now have a Caucasian son in law and a quarter Mexican quarter Japanese. Sette grandkids. And you know, the the the question of how how should they remember this? And how should they think about you know, this this event that's part of their family tree? And to be clear. I'm talking about my children here. What you know what what should be there? I don't know. Like, how should they learn about it? That's a very difficult question for me. Because I am very. Reluctant to pass on much of what I have to offer. Because I am highly suspect as a percent as a human being you've met my family. I'm sure you can realize that you're if that's true for you. It's true for them. And and we're all just going to be the best that we can. So the way Iraq to your question is I want to do as little damage as possible. Yeah. I don't wanna pass on my afflictions. So I am to be avoided. I knew you were going to say that. But there's got to be a better answer than that. You know? It's an interesting question. I think for mixed kids general though to about like what parts of their identity should they wear in. What ways you know? I mean, they're, you know, they're going through all of this at a point where even at my son's school in Manhattan, their, you know, their kids who were making comments about Mexicans, and and you know, that doesn't it's not gonna affect my son most directly, although he does look, you know, much more Mexican of the rest of the family, and it is a part of his heritage. But like just having to deal with that stuff. While also knowing that, they're, you know, very privileged kids growing up in in Manhattan. I don't know. I don't know the answer. I think kids though, the kids of their age are headed. Into really really far unknown west west because technology and this environment that's created by the digital technology. Whole idea of science of politics international politics of the displacement, all the people that are not going to have work because robots tech taken over the singularity. God knows what kind of impact it's going to have. And the future holds amazing possibilities that would be kind of silly for me to make any kind of comments about because I can't warn why can't encourage I can't because I'm not really really quite sure whether headed so this is a progression of. Societal elements that have come to a point whereas completely unknown territory, and it's going to take really nimble kid. Well, I I should say the singularity notwithstanding as long as there is still human beings. I think. Grandfather's will still have valuable things to say. And in particular. I think the, you know, these same issues that had pressed on your life so much. Unfortunately, do seem like they're, you know, they're coming back in their different ways. If I have any impact at all it's not going to be for another twenty thirty years on your kids. I that's my opinion that they're gonna be occupied preoccupied. They're going to be swept up in this. Great great movement. That's we call life. That's going to be. I think unrecognizable me in twenty thirty years. Anyway, that's where the heads. I don't think they'll be listening to any kind of any grains of wisdom from from me. We're going to put this in a time capsule, and they'll they'll get to listen to twenty or thirty years from now at which point I hope we'll still be doing this as we have for the last thirty years getting together here in Los Angeles. And and wherever we can and drinking talking, and and yeah, I just I appreciate you so much. It's been a huge part of my my life over the past two or three decades. Thank you for sitting here. I really appreciate the opportunity if they have any kind of curiosity sometime in the future where they say, I wonder what grandpa would have said or what he thought. And I think maybe that's you know. Worthy that or important that you have recorded this. And that that they have an opportunity to take a listen if they want to for what it's worth it's worth a lot. The trip from luminary media and roads and kingdoms hosted by me, Nathan Thornburgh, taffy Milkin Yati is our editor. And she did a hell of a step and repeat at the beard awards last weekend with roads and kingdoms Chevy. Meta Emily Marinov is our producer music by Dan. The automated episode illustration by daisy de show artwork by Dell. Rodriguez executive producers are me and mackerel. Ding, also, roads and kingdoms. Congratulations became those beard awards to Kate Coon with Sarah Hagi and August Thurmer who won a beard award for little Los Angeles the video series we all made together with Dane in LA last year rate memories. Great work a lot of awards, congratulations. Hey, we are still a free show this month. So I wanted to talk to you about luminary media. The producers of the trip this show will remain available to the public for the next couple of weeks. But after that, it's all four subscribers. We're couple of weeks into the launch now. And I am excited as ever to be a part of this platform. You can join the platform at luminary dot link. Backslash trip to sign up today, that's luminary dot link. Backslash trip to sign up and continue to listen to the trip in perpetuity next week while a G day who is data as hell and Justice fun to talk to while as a fashion designer whose work has been featured in Black Panther and elsewhere, and we are going to sit down in his city a city that is so close but not at all into living in the shadow of New York. It is Philadelphia. And I'm real ready to start a few episodes from there. We will meet you in Philadelphia next week.

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Episode 8: Drinking Saint Petersburg

The Trip

38:32 min | 2 years ago

Episode 8: Drinking Saint Petersburg

"You're not supposed to be drinking today. This was one of my few sober days, but something went wrong, you're I'm drinking why spirit in this trench strange setting, the trip has come to be sought. The Russians. So that's as Jacob. Why does she have a sober day? Because she owns a bar and boundaries or sometimes it good thing. Her bar is not just any bar. It's a phenomenal bar in a phenomenal drinking city in a phenomenally drunk country that I happen to love dearly under. Is you steady poor bar chronic. He has become a better representation of its city and it's time through booze than any bar I've seen in a long time. We talked in a room at the Leningrad documentary film studios in Saint Petersburg, Russia, and we drank. This is naked Thornburgh and you're listening to the trip from roads and kingdoms. A podcast where I drink with exceptional people around the world. We should describe where we are. We're in Lynn doc, which is short for leaking. To the funeral. So the Leningrad documentary film studio, which is like the day four or bubbles bear gov Leningrad. I guess it's a pretty bitch and building. They've got this lobby that looks like very Humphrey Bogart. You know, it's got some clear lights lighting up, very stylish cozy chairs, and then upstairs, they have some sound studios who've been kind enough to have the trip in for some talking and drinking. So I I, I'm met you at a bar last night. The bar is your bar. Yes. And it's a very, I think, an unusual place. So let's start right there with the bar chronically. What is it and why? Well, it's a bar located in the central district of Saint Petersburg and one. I'm one of the three owners. There are three of us me and my partners, glib and pizza. We founded the bar in two thousand thirteen. So this autumn hopefully will be celebrating five years. It's good fairway that's like in bar years. That's like at least thirty five years old. Well, it's quite a lot for Saint Petersburg because the industry here is young and not. Every place which opens survives for five years. So we're really glad about it. We try to combine the vibe of a local bar in the central street of city with the like heritage and the cultural heritage. We could. We treasure about Saint Petersburg, so yeah, which is, which is what? Well, it's the drinking tradition. It's the left to the city. It's the. The culture of the city, which we tried to. No, and share with our friends or regulars that people who visit and so on. So we, it's a very important part of our identity that we are a Saint Petersburg bar. I would say that this is a crucial thing about us. The spark not happen in any other city. I don't think so. So some of that heritage that I thought was super interesting just walking into the bar was that you see immediately the stand up round table like that who much table. Tell me about what that legacy is, which is kind of a Soviet legacy, not a Petersburg one, but what does that stand up table about? Well. In general, when we were talking about opening a bar and trying to figure out how should it look like and what should it show an offer people. We thought that in Russia due to our very difficult twentieth century understatement. Yes, we don't have like a smooth tradition of bars because the religion happened and what's their stuff happened? And we tried to imagine how Bart look like if there was a smooth transition from the ninety s to the twenty first century. And if this cultural culture has existed for the whole time, what would Saint Petersburg bar would look like? This is a bar where the twentieth century never happened. Thank God moving on. Well, hopefully this is something we try to organize and. Of course, we use the best practices of the Soviet time as well, because drinking culture in the Soviet Union was quite strong. It's one of his strongest in the world and in Seoul in during the Soviet time, there were no bars, but there were you muchness it's like shot shots like a shot bar, shod bars. Is that thing right? Usually quite small places where. Vodka was served by the glass and it wasn't a place where you were supposed to spend a lot of time. So that point was that you could go there have a quick shot and then go on with your journey, whatever it was very popular both for the working class, the. Versity lecturers anyone to visit such places. And one of the central characteristics of this place was this standing table which is called stage start. It's standard. Yeah, something probably, yeah. So when we were opening the bar, we decided that certainly we should have at least one standard standing table because they bar counter is not always enough for everyone. And in general people in Saint Petersburg loved to drink while standing, it's like the huge difference between Saint Petersburg and Moscow people in Moscow usually prefer to sit down and eat while drinking and people in Saint Petersburg stand and. They don't drink, don't eat that much. These are serious drinkers. Professional drinkers. True. Impressive northern drinkers. Yeah. So the standing table is a very important part of our barn. We couldn't squeeze in more. Let's we have one and it's one of the favourite features for place to be. I mean, I imagine as stage guy was not old enough to indulge in that when I visited the Soviet Union in like nineteen ninety. But I imagine that it's a place with some pretty rough alcohol, like not very thoughtful alcohol. If you could put it like that, we'll talk about the things that you serve in source at the bar, but like it is it different now that somebody's paying a little bit more and having actually a pretty exquisite drink rather than just like some grain alcohol to, you know, put their worries out of their misery for a little bit. Well, we tried to cater to all interests so we have alcohol in all the price ranges. Of course, we do look. The quantity. How did you get into chronic like how did you become a bar owner? It's a funny story. I used to work in an NGO and I worked in child protection for six or seven years here in Petersburg. Yeah, here in Petersburg and traveled a lot. And then I. I think I got burned out and I wanted to change something and friend of mine, like one of my current partners. He was working as a journalist and then started working at a bar in the evenings. And we were talking about changing our lives because he was also board with his press work, and I couldn't find anything instead of my NGO work, which would inspire me. So we started joking about opening a bar because we did spend some time in bars. And we started discussing how fun it could be, and. How would we do it and what would we involve and how could it look like? And we kept returning to that subject many, many times. And suddenly like in several months, we both realized that. It already stopped being a joke, like. It's time to start a business with suddenly realized that we're pretty serious about the whole thing. Yeah. And then we decided that we needed furred person to to balance this out and also for the money because we counted our own resources and realize that we need more. And we invited our friend Peter could join us happily. And who's also journalist, yes, he's also a journalist and among us, he's the only one who continues to work as a journalist fulltime. Well, I mean, I know that we have a lot of journalists that listen to this podcast in follow Aren k. more generally, I think it's great career advice if journalism is like a drag which had it really can be sometimes and you find yourself in bars a lot. Maybe, you know, think about doing that. Because it could work the the style of the bar, the kind of liquors that you serve on on on the edges of the menu. At least there's a lot of Baltic and northern like Nordic influence, I think, right. I mean, that's their, it feels like it feels like that's a conscious statement about the culture of Petersburg on some level that this is not Moscow for a lot of reasons. But one of them is there's a larger kind of there's a larger region that Petersburg is a part of true like we are located in the northwest and Saint Petersburg was built like the window to Europe and Saint Petersburg always. Used to and still does look more to Europe than to the Moscow direction? Yeah. So think burgers consider many of us consider them themselves more like more Europeans than the rest of Russia. I think it's fair to say that even the architecture of the city is much more European than in any other city of Russia. And the culture itself is tends to be more on the European side. I mean, it's it's, it's classical European, but also with that lake touch of Russian bombast. I mean, we were in the car coming over here, and I was just saying that like it's like every square here has a palace that you know of which there'd be one or two and like some other European city. But no, that wasn't good enough. Saint Petersburg somehow there needs to be a palace like every five. Eight hundred yards. And you know a giant Shaw say and a a park to the heroes, and it's like, it's, it's, it's impressive. It's it's a little oppressive. Like it's a little intimidating. The city is, oh, it was built like a capital of an empire. So, yeah. No wonder it's looks quite impressive. Nothing for the empire. But so we are located in the northwest and like. With our regionalism and our local patriotism, we tried to express it also in this sort of drinks we offer. So we tried to search out local stuff in the first place for that local patriotism and tell me about you have one Haas house cocktail gala have one house cocktail. It's called the free Ingraham Ingraham actually is the name or part of Russia was called before the before sinking Petersburg even was built. This was the old name of this in Gettleman Lenzi of this land and its consists of the best of our region vodka cranberry and cloud berry. So we tried to combine all the local stuff we could imagine. Right. And also there are some other. Other secret ingredients. This is a small podcast. You can tell me it's a hell I won't ever. You're going to have to try to sit home, come just scour the Nordic forests and try to come back with some secret ingredient that you can put into your free angry, but it turned out pretty well. People do like it and drink it a lot zone. It's our signature only signature cocktail have. So what does it mean to free Ingrid as a society, a call, the arms, a a, don't tread on me like, what's what's the statement or suggesting we live free up here. This date -ment is like the independence from Moscow. Maybe the independence from the rest of Russian. Like we here in the north are we have our own. Mind, we are a little bit on their own compared to the rest of Russia. So many people joke that Helsinki is much closer to Saint Petersburg than Moscow. Right? We, which is actually not to joke, right? That's an actual fact, correct. So we tend. Sometimes to feel more in common with our northern neighbours than with our southern or western neighbors. By the way, I've never seen this. I, I keep a bottle of black Balsams in my cabinet at home that I got from friends got used to live in Latvia at. I feed it to people who visit me and they spit it out immediately. It's a, it's a very intense flavor for a delicate Americans trying to t with t. Okay. It goes very well with black tea. There you go. It's for for the uninitiated, it's a little bit of an herbal liqueur slate lake, you know, cousin style relationship to Yeager Meister or something, although it's far better as far as I'm concerned, but you have like you don't just have a Balsams like you have like a lot of different kinds of like Baltic Balsam the cores? Yeah, we try to off. For like really an everything we could find from neighboring countries like these Tony and violent Talon and the the Bosnians and lots of finish stuff because we have quite a huge assortment of finished drinks, including like. From the roots like little upon liquors, berry Lakers to the newest things like the Nordic Jen was produced like several months ago, but didn't defends like want Hitler too. Destroy the city's so they could take everything north of than the other. Like I mean, g I, it's a long time ago, I guess. But I still think about that somehow. Well, I wouldn't go deeply into that, but actually. Large part of the Leningrad region was there's like not a long time ago, so so they were residents of Ingraham themselves and they were residents of Kamado themselves like fifty years ago. So well notes, fifty seventy so God. So they had their duchess expert created chose over the Dutch a neighborhood. It's all very close here. History of the twentieth centuries. So intense that no wonder they were and still are questions to each other. But. We try to be part of the northern communities. Sedona we start any shit you guys are going to get along. Well, and besides, as you said, at the very beginning, yours is a bar where the twentieth century didn't happen. So hype it that only the this tender part. That's right. Only the stay standing table. I think to be fair to ourselves into our listeners. I think right now we should pause this and go get some of that alcohol, and we'll just have a little tasting. Okay. Let's do that. I made as you bring shot glasses from her bar along with the hall, and I felt like your barman was was not happy. I felt like it was like, what? No, you can't take these glasses from the bar. It was okay. He was all right. We'll tell him give him my apologies. We could have just used the coffee mugs here and they also have glasses and shot glasses. Well, just didn't notice. I told you Russians are heavy drinkers. We're prepared. Yes. What? What would it sound Studio B in Leningrad Leningrad documentary, film studio without having shock glasses indeed. So here we are, you brought three things for us to taste, and we're just gonna like sip them and make lick lip smacking noises and and talk about what we're tasting to see if we can arouse some sort of foam, oh, in the people listening out there. So the first thing I wanted to today's is an apple cider made here in Saint Petersburg. These the three guys know another three. Bigger team like that. I think there are five or six of them at the moment. They started making site or at their own that show. And now they become quite successful cider makers for the north west and maybe the rest of Russia. I didn't know about the rest, but I won't be surprised so so dodgers by the way, 'cause realize is probably not a known quantity to let people they are the Russian summer houses where everybody goes, and you know, kids spend the whole summer there and everybody has their gardens, and they go to essentially get the city out of their blood little bit. Is that about about right. Yeah. And they started first with the apples from their own duchess. Then the started collecting apples from friends, then from friends of friends, and now every autumn, they have a huge apple searching projects awhile online. Really, they offer to come and collect all the apples, and then they pay the people who share the apples with them with cider. Okay. I, if I had a lot of apples that's deal that I would make because many people do have Dayah's and they have apple trees have absolutely no time or interests or. Wish to collect them themselves and they don't need that many anyway. How many apples you probably can eat or baked in pies. Well, that's true. So those guys collect them and it's absolutely local product, and they make cider in different variations of cider from them. They're, they're called on the bones on the bones. And this one in particular is very interesting. It's called Burnett down eve. Very aggressive title. I don't know what you did to deserve this, but well, it rush. It's also it sounds quite punky. It's a smoked cider, so they smoked the apples. Well, on real wooden Kohl's. Okay. And afterwards, they use the smoked apples to make cider. So it's really PT. It's unlike any other side are I personally have tried before? Well, PD cider. Okay. Yeah. If you were the person into single malt scotch and especially Isla. You will like the stuff. Let's do it. I mean, obviously most Russians aren't drinking podcast studio, so I don't ever done this before. I don't want to translate. But do you like clink glasses? Do you say something? What's the what's? What's the proper thing to do before we actually start drinking clink glasses or it, let's do it. And we never ever say that will be as does not exist. It doesn't exist except in movies when American actors say nuts that have no idea where it came from. But I know Russian ever says this unless he's paid to by Hollywood, you can toast. You can say to whatever good words you have in mind to whatever wishes you have in mind, like have a good time here in Saint Petersburg. Thank you. All right. That is like pretty astonishing. It's like if lug of lean made love with some sort of like apple cider from Vermont, then you would have this like PD sharp, pretty at bliss, pretty fucking delicious drink, and it's absolutely dry, of course. So right. It's right in those sugar at all. Right. Like the smoke. What happened? The smoke took all the sugar out is something else in their process as secret as ingredients in your signature cocktail. I think they secret is that they northern apples aren't very, really, very sweet on their own. So they don't get much sun and the weather is quite sad. So this is like the taste of the northern. Apple, right? You wouldn't get this from like a richer Luciano will still be very. Toby, very different. That is true and they make cider throughout obviously, siders that huge part of a story in culture and like a lot of places in Europe. I have never even come close to imagining a smoke cider though. I mean, they must, maybe they make it somewhere else. But this is the first time I've had it in. That's pretty cool for me as well, and it's really very refreshing. It's a pity. It's limited edition, but maybe they'll do it again next season hopefully outright I I should totally ad for people listening. These alcohols are utterly unavailable wherever you are unless you're in Petersburg, and even then it's probably hard to get unless you're gonna bar karnicki. Here's what you gotta do. Go get some of Mark's Mike's hard cider or like, you know, one of those big Costco brand siders in the states, and then add some model toy, train liquid, smoke to it and you'll have maybe some boom-or some boomer Bowmore let's key owes Bowmore. Okay. Well, that's that's getting closer to a more serious recipe. I think the, I think probably you're gonna fall short of this no matter what you do. But yeah, take some cider and throw some single Maltin there and you might. You might be on your way that is super fucking delicious. That's my official. That's my facial rating scale. What do you smell? I'm just smelling the smoke. It's very strange. It's a really it is. It's like a little disconcerting because you are getting two very different drinks in one somehow. Got drank it several times, but I'm always surprised. Nevertheless, it's it's just so strange why I was I was telling you last night. I'm on the smoke kick. I've got this smoke infusion gun which makes me the most hated person in in my in my household because constantly lighting, hickory on fire to like smoke the popcorn or something which is a little gratuitous. But one of the things that you realize is that it's hard to like make that smoke stick like in order to have smoked these apples in such a way that when you press them and then h them and then make sight or out of them, it's still tastes like a single malt like a PT single malt. There's something very unusual going on there. Pretty refreshing at the same time. Oh, it's good smokes. Strange thing, but cool. I like it. All right. That was a success we're gonna move to. Should we? What do we have it in? That's that's an IP. India pale ale. It's a beer brewed in Korea. It's the north west of Russia. Career Elliott is this place of my imagination. I've never been there, but I've seen the pictures and it is like the best of Norway. It's like fjords and. Yeah. Incredible, and it's right. It's just the north of Saint Petersburg. So this is a proof that the craft beer revolution has landed, not only in huge cities but also already in the province. So to say, it's not a Saint Petersburg or Moscow thing, it's absolutely Caribbean and the guys who brew does viewers. They name them after different villages in career. So this one is named summitters and it's called this way after village called some books. Some books which to me also does not sound. Yeah, it's theirs. They have their own language up there or you stay us to and every bottle they put the name of the village of the place. The sort is named after and the geographical coordinates. So these numbers and this one is IB. It's quite bitter. Like I think sixty eight IB you okay international. That's the nets and it's also quite heavy. I it's like a good symbol of the strong northern spirit while the people in the north, imagine their beer. That's right. I wanna bitter and very strong because I'm a chorale, Ian dammit. So tell me the the, you said these are not city people. These are people from the provinces. Are they like hipster brew masters? Like what's their? What's their vibe in their motivation? Well, I haven't met exactly the guys who brute. I think they. Probably are quite young and creative guys who could. Something like that would be hipsters. But the my point is that they don't come from Saint Petersburg or any other city with population over a million. So it's certainly a very small city, but the. Like the energy life, the ideas are proving everywhere. Yeah, and not only in the capitals, but also in the whole country. That's my point. The ideas are brewing. All right. Cheers to that. Cheers, Zahn. All right. We're doing it. Wow. Holy, California, Batman. That is a very that feels like a very international or like west coast like dank, you know, kind of. We'd floral. I. These are all not a drinker, but I like the ammo a lot. It's Larry Matic. Very rich in flavor. Yeah, this is a big beer. This is not a go, you know, hydrate, quietly beer. This is like you better be ready. I feel like if if if I were a Sophisticat I would give tasting notes or something. I feel like there's some fruit in there. I mean, it's like it's just like it's a lot, whatever it is. It's like a very complex flavor. Yeah, so I'm gonna. I'm gonna hide behind your explanation and it's bitter, and it's a little bit. There is some sweetness in the after days. That's right. Because with the with the Bernie burn, of course you just get this huge mouth of smoke kind of after like, that's that's the, that's the feeling, although it's not oppressive or anything, but this like yet it has this kind of. It's like a dish. Almost, you know, it's like this lack going on in this beer. But at the same time I think it's absolutely international. So I wouldn't be surprised to try this in a craft beer bar anywhere y'all. It's like, and the level of realization is is great high. Oh, yeah. No, it's a great. Let me just make very clear. This is fucking fantastic. IPA the kind which like San Diego would be proud to to drink. You know. But that's interesting because that kind of makes another point. It's regionally it's very specific and and that Karelya is making, you know, high quality beer. You know in these kind of small batch environment is interesting, but it's not a, it's not a regional flavor necessarily. I mean, I and it's not like a DIY look with our best and that's what they came up with. You're not. You don't have to grade this beer on a curve just because it's Caroline's it made it. This is like, this is a pretty bad SAPA which is interesting. I gotta say like it's pretty pretty cool that like that culture would spread, I'm sure through online and little magazines and just people starting to think like, okay, this is how I did it. This is my experiment. And then somehow you get people who turned into really excellent brewers in a place like Karelya, which stretches all the way to the Arctic. As we discussed kids, it does not. Don't listen to me. What's next. The next and last for our show. We're gonna. We'll just keep drinking for hours after the show, but the last of the show, it's this is not a site or net beard. Finally, this is Chung alcohol. What we specialize in the Russian. Finally, we've made it back to Russia and it's distillate spirit made of caraway seeds, caraway seeds. It's also very, super small batch. It's at seem located in Pushkin's KE Gauri. This is not far from Pskov also the northwest fresher closer to the Estonian border. It's very beautiful place to be, and they started producing their own strong alcohols which they distribute only in bars so far. Okay. You cannot find it in stores nowhere. And they basically try to. Produce spirits from anything they could can reach. So. Fair enough. They'd go very badly depending here in the north. We don't have grapes, sadly, so they use, we'd. They use apples, of course, which we have plenty. They use bees, they use buckwheat. They use. Like whatever they can find the amazing. And here in our case, they used caraway seats and why care way, like I have to say, I, I know that Germans put caraway on bread sometimes like I, I really don't know a lot about caraway. It grows here natively. It's like, I, I'm not sure how it grows never thought about that, but it's quite commonly used in the kitchen of the northern countries. Okay. Yeah. And this one, I think it's pretty good. It's at the same time. It's very gastronomic drinker. I can imagine it going very well with snacks whiskey. Yeah, was fish or with meat or with any pickled vegetable, which Russia is very famous for, but also to me, it goes very well in its own right strangely. So usually it's either or situation and this one is good. Can do a little bit of both. Yeah, it can do both. It's good enough, pure. It's good enough at the table, so try it. All right, nostril. Yeah. He. Terrible. To me, this taste is like very, very Nordic eights. I mean, I, I don't know if I've having some kind of like. Pavlovian connection between this flavor and the bread. But to me, it tastes like a like a really rich, amazing pumpernickel or something that after taste, you know it's got. There's something. That. I mean, it's it's definitely a spirit like it's a, it's a high alcohol spirit, thirty eight and a half, right? This is even bigger than that IP a, but it's. But it's you're right, it's got this kind of gastronomic thing, right? It feels like a meal or I don't know. It's very smooth and yet, right. It's also very smooth. Which is not always true of some of the alcohol that I've had in Russia. I mean, there's a lot of imagine drinking a lot of that, right. Not getting bored, that's I mean, what? What higher praise could there be of a spirit? I can drink a lot of this and not get bored. I'm gonna try drinking a lot of it right now. I mean, again, I've just like this is what you want when you're traveling too. Right? Like here I come to Saint Petersburg, which I, you know, I don't know. Well, and I, you know, I haven't been to in a long time and you walk into a bar and you get served flavors that you've never had before that are not just flavor that you haven't come across, but they're actually from that region. And that's like, this is the thing that they do like out out out by scoff. They make alcohol caraway seeds, and I'd never had that flavor before and it's like fucking great. I'm very happy. Because it's also strong out call. Yeah. I mean, that's why I think chronic is so great. Like this is a place that can actually deliver a very concentrated dose of the region to you. And by the way, Saint Petersburg is I'm like, most assholes who come to this place. I'm gonna go stay few nights Saint Petersburg and then go to Moscow and then go home. Right? But the ability to kind of bring in all of those flavors from corral era Pskov or you know, like these Baltic flavors and offered in a bar setting or something is like is such a service. So well, we tried to as I told, we tried to search out the the best among the all the possibilities our region has to offer. And I think it's, I think it's the right strategy for like any bar to try to show the best that they can find. Yeah, but people are probably pretty lazy too. Well, we also are very lazy, but. You pick your moment. Nevertheless, after five years of working, we are very disaster about alcohol. So we enjoy the process of surging out new things, trying them and sharing that with people. Is it you've, you've donated us over day to the show and I cannot thank you enough. I appreciate it. Thanks hope to see and chronic again. The trip is hosted by me. Nathan Thornburgh produced by Josie. Holtzman in future projects are editors taffy Malkin yahtzee are executive producers on me and Mak Goulding of roads and kingdoms special. Thanks to Dan, the automated for the beats and Adele Rodriguez for the art. Next Monday. The trip will be back with Nicole Choy a DC schoolteacher obsessed with recreating a cut rate, army corn, bread that her mom grew up on after the Korean war. We'll see you there.

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Episode 9: Chasing Korean Cornbread

The Trip

26:33 min | 1 year ago

Episode 9: Chasing Korean Cornbread

"I'm here in the studio drinking. Michael Lee. I picked up a seven hundred fifty milliliter plastic bottle of it today at the h. mart on thirty second street in New York's Koreatown the cashier rang up as beer, which it is definitely not. It is a milky rice. Wine drink Tangy with lactic acid creamy, but absolutely on the path to becoming vinegar. It's a farmer's drink almost as old as Korea itself, but it nearly went extinct before a new generation of hipsters and nationalists, and regular people who just appreciate a low alcohol, booze with complexity, turned away from western liquors and brought macula Lee back to the Korean cupboard. The conversation I'm going to have in this episode is about chasing taste memory in the opposite direction from Korea to the United States. Nicole Choi is a DC schoolteacher and author who would have beautiful essay on this for roads and kingdoms about Korean corn, bread. You see, her mother grew up in postwar South Korea when US forces used the locals as a captive market for non perishables. They brought American powdered milk by the fleet, they made corn bread with that mill, they fed it to school children. It was not in any classic sense, good corn, bread. But Nicole's mother like many Koreans are age couldn't help, but form an attachment and many years later after a bruising round of chemotherapy in Maryland, it was that old war corn bread that she craved Nicole. Her skeptical, loving daughter set out to recreate it for her. I'm Nathan Thornburgh, and this is the trip drinking with exceptional people around the world. I mom just stomach cancer in two thousand thirteen, and she got breast cancer to fifteen. She had just finished chemotherapy treatment and she had all these cravings for different kinds of food. So then when she's talking about this corn, bread, my brother actually suggested, you know, we Google just see what comes up and to my surprise. A lot of things came up. We'll did your mom say about this corporate? What was that conversation? Jus just describing the texture. And how is like really rough and hard, but she wasn't saying it in a bad way is as us as was craving it. So you you and your brothers sitting there and be like, okay, so this is corn bread. It's rough it like you could break tooth on it and like, here's your mom saying, yes, that's exactly what I liked about it. Right. And she wanted to taste it and she hasn't tasted it since she emigrated to the US forty four years ago. And we were actually in Korea last summer. Those bakery, an advertisement outside. Sides in nineteen sixty six corn bread. And so we actually bought a piece. We were skeptical and we were right. My mom said, taste the same. Oh, man. So even in Korea, they're chasing this this flavor. This like this texture and they can't get it. So she missed the flavor. You guys were like, okay, we can Google for that. What did you see? I saw Kenyan parks dissertation at the university of Ledin and has an entire chapter on Korean corn, bread and how is distributed to school children. I was describing it to my mom and you know, my mom was just shaking her head agreeing, especially when she heard the nickname stone bread. So yeah, I found that amazing that other people were talking about it socialism, another food blogger. His website came up said he had experimented with this recipe trying to come up with the right recipe several times. So everyone seemed to be on this search for the corn bread. Of this entire diaspora mobilized to try to recreate this corn bread. What do you know about the kind of history of that dish after the Korean war South Korea was obviously very poor and struggling and the city US wanted to donate some food to Korea. And what they did was they were donating powder, mill and corn meal to school children to distribute at certain schools. It was the schools that were very poor. There were very remote and they would give these free lunches to those children sometimes powered milk. They wouldn't cook it properly and giving kids diarrhea. So a lot of people just threw it out an had bad reputation, and then core meal was doing it in nineteen sixty one. They initially made that into Grohl, but it took a lot of labor. They was prepared in schools and so just became too costly to produce it. And then. I guess, idea making interbred came up and so eventually when bride was being mass producing according to choline parks, dissertation as says, bread was first mass producing Poussin, then cornmeal was being used and as well as powdered milk that has been donated. They were both being used to make this corn bread and that was being distributed to the schools vary like specific window of time when a schoolchild in in certain parts career, this would have been like a major part of their diet, right? But then my mom, when she loved Hondo Chun, which is where she was born and where she received that cornbread when she moved to a different city closer to Seoul, she says she didn't receive it anymore. So I think it really was restricted to the, you know, to the school children who were in these remote areas. I mean, that's interesting too, because it's of course donation, but it's also kind of cynical project, right? We had. We've done this. We did. This in Japan after the war, certainly in Korea, we're looking for markets, not necessarily friends. Right. How does your mom feel about the fact that that was part of her diet? I think she just was grateful. So I don't think she has any feelings of resentment. If anything, it was just new food to open up her open her pallet to. And what about you when you like spending time? Thinking about this reading about it, is it? Is it different from generation to generation the ideas of like what that, what that relationship actually looks like? I think and I think this is where maybe like my personal experiences come in. I guess I don't like the idea of it are. I'm not comfortable entirely with DEA that the US under terms of being friendly, they just wanted to make they wanted to I guess, like groom school children to become consumers of American food. Does the idea that Koreans are seen as very passive submissive and like people can walk all over them. So yeah, I'm not entirely comfortable with it. However, I was doing a little bit more research. I saw that between nineteen sixty one and nineteen sixty three. 'cause peel forty four hundred eighty though is like the food for peace initiative where the agricultural surplus in the US was being donated to foreign countries. So that was signed in nineteen fifty four by Eisenhower and under Eisenhower it was he was just strictly trying to. Get rid of the agricultural surplus, but then when Kennedy became president, he wanted to, I guess, change the rhetoric of that. And so instead of calling an agricultural surplus, he started calling it, you know, abundance and using the agriculture abundance to alleviate hunger and starvation to combat malnutrition. So am I read that? I felt a little bad for sharply criticizing the effort in the article. The means Kennedy's marketing gut to you. Yeah. It seems charmer. Exactly. So you found these food bloggers, you got a couple of recipe ideas from them about how to actually put this together yourself. We didn't try monkeys recipe actually monkeys the Korean food blogger. Yeah, up here in queens, right? Because my mom took one look at it and said, that doesn't look right. So we didn't try that one. A woman of judgment? Yes, very harsh, but then we saw soul 'isms recipe and she saw that it looked very hard. She's like, oh, okay. That might be the right one. But she said the shape was off, but my brother tried that recipe and there were some ingredients for the original corn bread. I didn't do it correctly. And so what I ended up with it looked kind of like polenta after I cooked it, but is you can eat it. So we threw that out, but SOLAS him his recipe, my mom enjoys. She said it wasn't quite right. How reliable do you think her like since memory is of of that? I don't know. She's admitted that too. She said, you know, like when you describe the corn bread, it does not sound appetizing. So she actually is questionably. Maybe I was just very hungry and I appreciate the fact that they gave me two pieces of corn bread and it was new so that probably made it more appealing as well. I mean, is her response to Seoul? 'isms recipe lake, not breaking my teeth enough, not stone bread enough. She does. She is munching on it. She just goes. Nah, not quite right. So told me you, you cook the corn bread. What goes into it, like, what are the? What are the ingredients says SOLAS recipe. He used butter sugar, salt, a some cake flour, baking powder, milk, and then cornmeal. Now that sounds kind of delicious. It's hard to see the the, you know the toughness in that. One of the differences that you know of between like how it would have been made before, and SOLAS recipe is is the powdered milk right? So you would have used powdered milk which you did not cook with. We just use regular milk. You got something against powdered milk and causes diarrhea. This podcast sponsored by the powdered milk association. Say it causes diarrhea and, but on the other hand, can make a very nostalgically tough in hard piece of corn threat for your mom. Yeah. All right. Well, there's, there's a goal for all you folks at home. We're going to post a recipe on on the show notes, and then we're going to have you guys make Korean cord bread with powdered milk. I wanna see some adventures at. They're just close to the bathroom. I guess that's all we're saying. It's not too much. I mean, because you can buy corn bread in Korean bakeries like shila. They have here in queens. They've got done in Maryland and they have a corn bread, but that's not the same either now, but you can actually tell. I think there is a difference when you buy corn bread from those Korean bakeries verses, the cornbread you get at American restaurant, the one on the cream bakeries, they're never cake like they're so hard am I've Indian compared to the American style is not. It's not soft. It's not very sweet, and it is a little crumbly as not spongy. Do you think that's kind of stretching back toward that kind of that harsher corn bread? Yeah. So I actually tried getting someone from Sheila bakery to talk to me over the phone this article, but nobody wanted to and I can't speak Korean. So they were just saying own of a ni- can't help you and they hung up. So then my mom called and she was speaking. Korean and she was talking to, I think when the store managers at the one in oak city, she said like that corn, bread is designed for the Korean taste, or it's meant to appeal to Korean specifically. So it is going to be a little corner. Okay. Grittier. Yeah, but that sense has grit like Koreans gopher in more intense like, yeah, flavor across the board. Like you know, the intensity of flavors seems to be a requirement and that love of sugar is just not not the same as our glucose overloading non Korean Americans. So how has this become a part of the rotation then or is this a one time kind of special making the corn bread for your mom? Just online time thing? Yeah, you're like, that's it. Mom, you got one chance. One walk down memory lane that we're moving on again. And then also in Korea when she was still there, there was wheat flour that was donated and that was able to produce like much softer bread. My mom says she still liked that really hard corn bread. But now at the bakeries they sell this really fluffy milk bread and she loves that stuff. So I find that kinda funny because white bread was that, you know was the other kind of thing that had been brought over along with corn bread and of course, Korean bakeries. Now of, you know, again, it's like in so many different parts of the culture, Korean anything is just like the quality is very high, like the foam, oh factor for people like is very high. If they're not getting getting their Korean baked goods, they're super good and like universally recognized as such, is that weird for you to see, you know, Korean food having the moment that it's having? Yeah. Especially seeing the jars kimchi a giant and safe way and is the small jar. It looks like sixteen ounces and is marked up to five ninety nine. I find that strange. Yeah. And then some when I meet new people, I know they're well intention. You know they'll bring up like eating Korean barbecue and like we should go to Korean barbecue. I go, okay. We can just eat regular food to too typecast this right someone that they would like to bring through their barbecues. Right, right. Exactly. Going through this process and I don't know having a family, your own some day, like what. How do you feel about the foods and the things that you might hand down to them? You ever put thought into that how that culture stays alive? Definitely. I wanna learn how to make Chee or my mom and like all the different soups because I still you Korean food on the daily. And so even though I'm my own place, I will go back to my mom's house maybe like once every other week, and I just pick up food from her and I eat that for dinner. What I definitely want to pass that down and the my godmother and I were actually talking about this. And we're saying how like a requirement for a boyfriend is that he eats Korea food and that he loves Korean food only. Yes, that is very, very important because I cannot imagine a life where I'm not eating Korean food. Self conscious, right? Who doesn't understand why kimchi is right. A miracle cabbage. It gives a, you know, stinky face when they see it, even though they're okay with me eating it, I want someone who really likes Korean food. Did did your mom's illness like kind of accelerated that for you? Feeling like crap, like, you know, life isn't forever. I got download as much as I can. And then just also asking her more stories, I guess about our family is definitely did puts them like a sense of urgency that I need to get these things now. I mean, they don't write things down like they don't write recipes. My mom and her sisters even when they're cooking. You really have to just wash them because they can't tell you, oh, just a teaspoon of that. They just shake it or the have you shaken they okay, stop. And so it really you just need know watch and be there when they're making it in order to understand how it's done in order for the rest of PD to be passed down as she continues getting older. I mean, kimchi is backbreaking work. You're squatting for like two and a half hours. And so eventually once you too old, you can't do that kind of work anymore. So there's a time line there as well. So one cuts up that comes up when you write about this is on John. Can you tell me what that is? And so on John, and I heard this, the. Time when my mom was telling me about her immigration experiences, it just means contentment. The wave of immigrants that came over around the mom came over like in the sixties and seventies my mom said that they weren't looking for anything lavish or like any riches or anything like that. All they wanted was just some security disarming that was good enough. Do you think she feels that's value that maybe you guys have lost in your generation? She is a bit of a shopaholic, but I think for the most part. She still. Yes, she doesn't like to go overboard with certain things. So sometimes my brother will want to upgrade like a bus ticket or upgrade a plane ticket, and she says, no, that's unnecessary, you know? And he says, will there will be more legroom like in you get sick a lot on the planes or on long Trish. She goes, no, it's fine. We don't eat that. Like I have my medicine if I get sick. So yeah, I think she does try to for the most part live like a modest life. So yeah, I think that ideology has stuck with her with you. Your brother. Are you guys too far gone? I don't think so. The first paycheck I got when I worked, I bought some things that weren't on sale. An fell like entirely lake stepping into a new world notions is so many options, but that only lasted for me to paychecks and then I went back to sale shopping maybe for my brother. He does like to indulge a little bit. Yeah, I think for me too. I, I just like having the basics and not nothing and not anything more than that. Like I don't really like the feeling, I guess, of indulging too much. And you said you eat Crean food every day. Now you're out in your your teaching high school in Washington DC, you packed lunches or you go out to dinner. I cook and cook, and like I said, my mom will Pat me food. So I'll eat that for dinner for lunches. I don't pack Korean food. I stick to American food. So that's still even when you're the teacher, not the kid in the cafeteria. V stinky. I don't want beard. Looks. Man. When will you have? I guess the cultures gotta change or something. I mean, this is your classroom. Yeah. Even in the classroom, like the kids don't out really say it can't help, but think that they do treat me differently sometimes or they don't maybe show me. They don't show me a lot of respect at ties because I'm like a Korean American girl, but that I don't know that could just be all my head, but I remember giving up. I remember giving an example because we were talking about like stereotypes and the idea of like double consciousness by w. e. d. boy, whereas you live in to America's and you really know how to reconcile both. So it's just like constantly this inner conflict. And I remember this one student I gave the examples like, you know, I like Korean food. I would never bring that to school and he'll miss Julie coin. No, you should. Definitely bring cream food. No, only fun of you and in my head I was like, if you were a teacher, you would be the one to make fun of me. So there's definitely that going on, I think for me still in the public sphere. What's your favorite dish? But that table where your mom is recalling like her number one Jones or they're craving like, what would that be for you? I'm a lot. I think the simplest thing though is rice. I just cloud pooh-poohed muscle. It's like rice porridge. You just put rice cooked rice with water on the stove, and you wait until almost all the water's gone and becomes really thick. And then I like eating that with OJ which is Korean pickle, and then a Friday or esteemed egg is that's my favorite. And in high school, when I get back late from marching band, my mom would always have that ready on the table for me. So now it just stares and shower and come down and eat it late at night. This is part of your childhood. That's that's the flavor. You'll go back to that's unusual too, because that's also like that some deep home cooking, right? That's not really gonna go into a restaurant in for like some porridge with some pickles. Exactly. I sometimes do poor 'cause I, they give you that hot water and tea. So someone who's a Depor that over my rice and my mom gets very embarrassed nineteen that. That's supposed to be your guys secret right. Are you you do that at home? Not at a restaurant. I think home cooking always beats out the rest. And sometimes what my mom will do. We'll go out to eat Korean food, but then she has to do this thing called EAP, gushing an Eappen. Korean is mouth and costume is just washing it down. Just she always says, she needs to wash out her mouth and she'll make her own Korean food at home. Disa- wash out the flavor of the old Korean food that we eat at the restaurant just like a little a little taste. Is something right to just have that better home cooking, right. Dislike a piece of rice that was sitting out all day raptor like g wrapped Radna and she'll just have a bite of that and she'll feel better about having had like a sub-standard Korean meal or just, yeah, I guess it doesn't sit well on her stomach. Sometimes when she goes out, even if it is Korean food, it's just the way they prepare it, and it's not the same as home cooked, Korean food, just commercial, cook and rain. That's amazing. I mean, you could say this about a lot of cultures, but food seems to be like really, truly actually, definitely centrally at the heart of like Korean identity because it's such a distinct food culture. And I mean, I I, if there is a Korean-American who doesn't give a shit about food, I haven't met them, you know, but for you is Korean food, a bedrock of what you would think of as like being Korean. And I think that's one of the only things that I can probably identify with and probably show off to other people McCurry and food. And that's the way I feel connected to my culture. That's like the way feel connected to my mom, my family members because everything else I do tend to question just like the Confucius values and everything like that, but the food I can get down with your mom's doing now, how's her health? She's doing well. She has regular checkups with Dr, and then she recently signed up for YMCA and because it's so expensive. She's been going to classes a day sometimes just to get the when it. Yes, exactly. She's also cut back a little bit on ten John, like the sweeping fermented soybean. It's a lot of the fermentation food to that causes stomach issues. You're just letting this thing, right. And then you eat it. You pay. For soups, you make it into sauces issues. It's rotten soybean, paste. I mean, when you say that way, it does not sound like what it is which is intensely delicious food that God clearly had a plan to like let these cabbages rot a little because if he comes like this incredible thing that you eat, so yeah, it's doesn't make sense. Why? Why would something so good make you sick? And I was watching among t- recipe with my friend and she was making homemade soybean pay, which is. Multiyear process, and she put a piece of charcoal in the jar and just let it sit there with the soybeans. So when I saw that only know, I feel like this is why it's bad for you all those Christina Jin's and you're letting this thing just rot in that closed jar for more than a year and you use it for the base of all these sauces and soups. I know idea that they put charcoal in it just put like a few lit cigarettes, handful of soybeans. Years. But again, going back like the soybean pace super delicious, make soup lake amazing. So I'm gonna say that our listeners are gonna make such incredible powdered milk, Korean, Comoran breads that your mom is going to be reinspired and you'll get back on on on ghoul and read more dissertations and more food bloggers and, and finally nail that tooth crunching gritty rock hard stone bread from her youth. That's my goal for this. Thank you for coming and talking with us about your family and stone bread and all the rest for having me. The trip is hosted by me Natan Thornberg through spy. Josie, Holtzman in future. Projects are editor is taffy Malkin. Yati are executive producers are me and Matt Golding of roads and kingdoms special. Thanks to Dan, the automated for the music and Adele Rodriguez for the art. You can find a Kohl's article true grip about her search for corn bread on roads and kingdoms dot com. Next week, I'll be taking an epic journey back across the East River to Netflixing New York headquarters where I'll be talking to some enough threat chef author and star of her own upcoming television series. We'll see you there.

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Episode 13: Sipping through Austria

The Trip

32:09 min | 1 year ago

Episode 13: Sipping through Austria

"Is it like really hot? Or is it warm? It's it's like a bath. But it's sort of you know, loopy. Yes. That is a word. It's not unpleasant know at the end of the day. It's a hot tub. There's plenty of heavy news out there this week, the usual American slurry of voter suppression mass shootings and rampant wildfires, but let's pivot away from that for a minute go back to a hotel room in central Moscow where I shared many bar white wine with one of my most trusted editorial constantly Aries roads and kingdoms editor Alexa, van sickle. We talked about her homeland of Austria about whiskey made on glaciers, doctored sweet wines and gloomy. Beer, baths into Roleo. I'm Nathan Thornburgh. And you're listening to the trip drinking with exceptional people around the world. We're on the fourth floor of a very very design focused hotel in Moscow right now, we're about one hundred feet away from the victory day celebrations. And we're in Russia because we are doing some fact-finding for our new city guides which will be sent Petersburg and Moscow literally like a million people on sky, which is right on the corner where we are. And you really can't hear much a lot of hammer and sickles out there a lot of cool Putin t shirts, it's all the little unnerving. So I'm happy to be kind of hold up here talking about Austria, do you live in Austria? And you wrote this amazing piece that was something of a farewell to the country. We talked last year about having a series of road trips, and since I was in Austria sort of temporarily, and I was about to leave again after getting to know it as an adult probably for the first time I left when I was seventeen. So really what what fell to me was. Try to figure out a theme of what can you write about Australia? That's not super newsy and not super about chocolate cake classical music, actually, my first idea was to try to trace the borders because Australia's is one of those funny countries where wherever you are in country. It's sort of absorbed with the flavor of the country. It's next to. So there's bits that seem like Italy in bits seemed like Germany. And slovenia. And so I realized also that most of the country's borders are actually three thousand meters up in the Alps that wouldn't have worked for a huge portion you have an unusual Austrian story. You're not yourself Austrian know, essentially, my immediate family are from Austria in the sense that we were all born there. My parents met there in the nineteen sixties, and it's kind of random they weren't really supposed to be there either. My mother was a South African student in biology genetics who had been to Germany, and then sent to I think she got a job in Australia working at the medical school and doing research. And so she was hanging out there. You know, checking out Europe be seemed to be descended from people who escaped to the new world. And then decided they really like the old world and came back. So my father's people, for example were longtime on Tehran's fr. From Canada originally from the Netherlands, and then they sort of came back the generation before him and hung out in Romania for decades. One from Toronto to Romania. Yeah. From southern Ontario, so near Sarnia. Our love your old world people go to the new world make life themselves. Actually, you know what? Fuck this. Yeah. Let's go. Let's go elsewhere. I think what's what's funny with the van sickle clan. These Canadians who you're looking at Romania in eastern Europe. Like, yeah, this is where it's at. And then both times getting expelled by a continental war. Ungrateful. Occupiers terrible timing. So you were born in Austria. Yes. And spoke English at home, spoke English at home. My parents were very adamant that we all become hugely fluent in German. So we all went to St. Austrian kindergartens. So I mean, there was a time in my life that I probably spoke better German than English. So what does it mean, then to be I think you put it in your piece, Austrian? Ish you feel like an outsider are you relieved from the burdens of giving too much shit about Austrian politics and not just fully not Austrian, but not really fully British either. Because although that was our nationality. We didn't grow up there. I like to think that I have not really felt Austrian ever because we were always just, you know, this English speaking family, we're a nation unto ourselves, but it's not unusual to be from somewhere else in the summer for a while. But we are unusual in that we were in it for the long haul. We're not posted there. We were not somewhere in between. And I think that having a foot in several national lead nowadays gives me it gives me the right to be offended on multiple levels. Or also to not care. I've never understood the idea of having a 'nationality or nationalism. And but I've always felt that home being in between. And I think that's why maybe I am drawn to places like Canada or the US where everyone's a little bit. From somewhere else. In this the cycle begins. Yeah. Exactly events ical returns to the new world only to have future generations look around and be like, let's go back to Europe, man. Our generation grew up. The first thing we learned was, you know, about the war and also the school. We went to school with a lot of international kids from everywhere, you know, not just from the rest of Europe, but from Nigeria Pakistan, you couldn't have a better background for really drilling into that. Nationalities are arbitrary and not useful. At least for forming. Your opinions about someone when you're six years old again. It's like I just have to point out the extreme irony of this very correct opinion in my in my view that you have being expressed full one hundred meters from about five hundred thousand Russian flags Soviet flags. Cool Putin t shirts it is alarming. Not just because of the Austria connection. But. We are taught from young age to be very suspicious of ostentatious flag-waving, which is obviously something that happens in a lot of places, but it's felt strange to be on his, you know, in terms of how I feel being Australian ish. I think it's given me a real insight into being European growing up on the continent. And having these neighboring countries that are different, but you still kind of understand how they work, and when you go to the UK, which is from a from the US perspective in Europe. But really isn't. It's completely different in the mindset. And you know, obviously, we're seeing this with Brexit and all that that kind of stuff. So I would say that being Austrian Ishmaelites me feel European but not necessarily Austrian. So I was fascinated by this idea because I think I often have that feeling slightly different women you're thinking about leaving Austria for an extended period of time and you've been back there. Now, how many years I'd say it's off and on about two years road trip is like kind of that way to run your mind over the features of a country. And that's basically what you wanted to do in Austria sort of like, let me remember this place. Probably learn a little bit. About it before I had out. I think you had a very sensible approach, which is let's do this road trip as a series of different kinds of alcoholic beverages. Right. I very lucky that I managed to find something on the set of whiskey front beer fears everywhere near you weren't going to be able to do the Austria Moscow crawl no credibility. What they do. Have is a does a substance cold most, which is essentially the fermented wine grape juice before it's wine, but beyond grape juice, it tastes like grape soda, but it's actually pretty alcohol IQ, and it's very dangerous because people underestimate how much they're having. But there is such a thing as the most corridor for pears apples. But it was the wrong season. Okay. I couldn't do that. I did want to write about wine because that's the geography that I know. I mean, that's where I grew up. I grew up in a part of China that produces one, you know, my my life was very much. Dictated by that. That's what people did certain times of year. The first restaurant. I ever went to probably was one of those wine taverns, it's been there for centuries, and we had very good family friends who are actually from wine producing section as well about an hour west. And so we used to go pick wine with them, and they were from a very small town where they were not actually fulltime winemakers anymore. But this town of two thousand people almost every family had vineyards left or the really old wine cellar because it's not a place where it's just in the fabric of their lives. And so that to me was Austria. All right. Well, let's start with wine then so you were in the neighborhood. And this is something that's actually that. You've taught me that's quite special at the end. It's the only capital city in Europe that has like winemaking within its limits. The official line is that it's the only one with significant amount of wine produced in its city limits, and that seven hundred hectares, I think you are you would find some places in Germany and Switzerland do but it's. On to the same scale. I don't wanna drink Berlin Wall. So they have two parts of the northwest and northeast, which are actually the very very end of the elps if you look at a map of relief map of Alps, the very very last set of hill just stretches into the Anna. And that's where the wine is it grows on these hills of China. And we'll I I wanted to talk about wine at some point. But I'm just lucky that there was some beer stuff going on and some whiskey stuff going on to Austria had. It's got a unique moment, I guess it's wine history because it had some some crises in the past. Right. What was that about in? Like how does that affect what what's happening with Austrian wine? These days in the early eighties. The fashion for wine was to have very very sweet table wines, who's fashion, Germany and Austria think MO the biggest consumers of Austrian wine where the Germans back then consumers of Austria, also. History. And so I think what ended up happening is they had a few bad harvests where they couldn't make the wine sweet enough in some chemist in a very enterprising dude in Vienna had figured out that glycol, which is an ingredient in antifreeze could make the wind sweeter. Now. I don't think he he meant to do, you know wholesale poison entire industry. I think he I don't think he was aware of the health issues. But yes, so it was him and a few other people in became this, huge network of wine doctors, essentially who had been doctoring wind for years, and then actually reached pretty high up into local government and stuff. So the town that I mentioned earlier my friends are from there Folsom Burgum. Their mayor was one of the ringleaders. I'm not a chemist. I don't know what glycol sounds like another kind of sugar, but it's it's a bad sugar. It's the bachelor it's something that you don't want in your wine. Yeah. I love it. This is the fucking. Problems like they could not make their wine sweet enough, which to me is like not a problem at all not at all. Like how 'bout you make that white last week, please? That was the market was for sweet wine. They started adding glycol to it. And they basically had this like huge conspiracy among politicians in winemakers to cover it up. Yeah. And then it came out and German. Scientists had started testing the wine, and it all came up quite quickly in July eighty five I think it was so in one week, basically, the Austrian wine industry was destroyed. They had to destroy, you know, millions of bottles. Yeah. The streets ran rid Germany had been consuming this one. So it was mostly Germany that shut down the the market, but they were pissed they were not happy about it. Because a lot of the a lot of German wins had been doctored to Australians wine for export yet, Germany. Yeah. I mean, listen not at well. In the war. They've done worse. But this does not excuse poisoning. Their wine isn't that on a mass scale in nineteen eighties. So I mean the way that I was told by someone I interviewed in the peace. So Elvin your chick who makes wine. Now, he said about maybe half, the people in that area had been involved in the wind scandal somehow had been doctoring their wines. And everyone else did not and did not make a lot of money. So they were really struggling. But because the guy, you know, this mayor had been one of the ringleaders it was very hard to express your dissatisfaction. Losing market share to dudes who were adding chemicals that are whining. Exactly. I mean the way he put it was the, you know, once the scandal broke that really saved Australia's wine because not only did it sort of level the playing field for everyone who's not to mix metaphors, but the people who are not cheating. But also they had to stop focusing on sweet wines, and they had to sort of start from scratch and start to make really really good natural wines with no funny business, and they had all this time to do that. So now, you know, the really strong winds coming out of Austria are dryer reds and dry whites. I mean to me that's a story with a very happy ending. Yeah. I'll say it again, fuck sweet wine and not a fan either. So that was the wine part of the trip. You did a bit of a road map for how do we experience Austrian wine? Sure, the route that I took around Australia, which was divided into three trips of a few days each I did sort of go from west to east starting from his far away from Vienna. As you can get and then coming back, and there is this. There's a really great place to go for wine. I mean, there's a it's called a how it's basically a few miles along the Danube and is just got town. After town of hugely historical vineyards and wines, and people can quite easily drive that in a day and drink some wine, and or, you know, get a boat on the Danube. These are seriously old vineyards, they're famous for being incredibly steep, and really uneven sort of really kind of medieval looking, and there's castles a live at the place as well. Wine stuff. This came from the Romans, right? Yes. So I believe that the Celts had been doing something with wine before that. But the Romans really can have made it into cultivated products. They imported the ones middle the Danube valley has been a wine producing area for very long time. So all right. Get yourself to Vienna to the Vauxhall designated boat. Captain, then go from winery row winery. Among all the castles done. I'm ready for it. You had to other spirits that were sort of your guide posts for this. Kind of trip around Austria, you had beer and you had whiskey. Why whiskey and where did you find it and is an Austrian good question? So I've been speaking about this trip with a few people former Austrian dwellers who'd maybe laughter come back and someone did bring up whiskey, and I remember seeing a bottle of whiskey in the airport. A couple of times in thinking. Wow, that's probably pretty nasty. I just did some digging into turns out there is a very very, you know, sort of small that blossoming whiskey seen the whiskey is happening in the forest quarter in the eastern part of the country. That's an actual name. Yes. The Austria has these of regions of agricultural goodness. This like a wine quarter and a forest quarter. Within those sections this parts famous for making grape juice in this parts famous for making wine. So the vote fatalist they call it is where all the whisky action is happening. But it seems to be that most of these places are. People who already have a brewery or schnapps distillery so schnapps as the, you know, the really strong fruit brandy that you get from Austria to Romania beyond whiskies just really big right now globally. So they've decided to diversify and quite a lot of them. It seems just went to Scotland one time in hung out. I really liked it. And then like, I could do that human reaction. Yeah. That was a small thing. And now there's like an Australian whiskey association, and they have competitions. But I think that the sort of narrative is that there's this one person called Joseph Hyder, I think his his company's j h who is the really good whisky producer who started years ago, and everyone else is sort of playing catch up in the forest quarter. He is in the fourth quarter. Probably if you're gonna see it any in any stores, it'll be his whiskey most likely there was also a little bit of a strange novelty, whiskey called Brexit, like the whole idea is like, well, here's some whiskey that's not from the UK. So it's Brexit with. Key. And it's like, well, let's not really vibe, you get basically they're saying, no, we're breaking up with Britain and the whiskeys breaking up Scotland, we're like, oh, okay. I think this this bottle was a fundamental misunderstanding of what what Brexit means. As a hashtag as a concept within Europe engine the U K fair enough. Did you go for your whiskey experience? So it was sort of a happy accident that this part around Salzburg, which is sort of like, the west center part of the country. I just happened to find out that this glass here called the Dutch dine happen to be stealing whiskey. Okay. And so they the glacier like the mountain. It's health obviously, isn't distilling the whiskey or the people who operating the ski resort which is what it is orange making the whiskey, but I I tracked down the whiskey producers got it, which we're about an hour away, which is a really really small farm halfway up a mountain, and they are taking water from the glacier their entire farm up. Operates on water that's to siphon directly from the mountain. But they are also I mean, there's a thing in Austria. That's very common word which album, which is essentially a farm that sort of in the mountains and often it's a sort of self sufficient, you know, farm-to-table operation and also has hotel beds. So often they'll have animals, but it's a huge huge destination for tourists say they come in have some of that alpine goodness. And they'll go to the album, and you have beer often. You'll find people who have a working farm are also in the tourist business. Right. So they're forming in the summer, and then basically opening some ski since key runs in the in the winter. And that's how it started out. And so this is a family of four that just have been making schnapps for years. So they've been doing it not for very long eight years for some reason they decided, hey, let's see what happens if we put single malt in Iglesia for five years. In the glacier. Yes. So they've got some barrels distilling inside the glacier underneath the ice. Okay. And we're in year two of a five year experiment that seems a little gimmicky I found so a little bit but working with like glacial waters. Interesting. Yeah. Every water company on earth says they are coming straight from glacier, but in this age of global warming. Maybe we have some like really old interesting water that's coming to us because it's been frozen for since the ice age. And now, it's a it's coming back were they excited about ancient waters. Thank for sure. I mean, this is the thing about, you know, the birthright of people who live in Australia mountains, I mean, they they expect nothing less than ancient glacial motor got it. They've been doing brandy for years. They have all kinds of Hazel nut and Plum, and all that kind of, you know, all those usual flavors, but they are now doing whiskey, and I think they actually make more money with whiskey now than they do. The sort of family business that is globalize tastes always say in fairness like I've I've lived in schnapps countries, I could be schnapps fan. If if I was so inclined. I'm not I mean, they can be incredibly great for just kidding fucked up. I mean, I'm sure there's some like really refined schnapps, but that's mostly what I remember is like gas station schnapps like these kind of burning fruit memories that will never leave. You. You know, I'd never really drank schnaps growing up because it's not really what you go for as a teenager. But it's such a part of the amounts. You know, it's like after every meal, so I like him a little bit. But I'm not very hardcore with schnapps. So, you know, all occasionally have a. The apricot one or hazelnut that one and then I was in Prague a couple of weeks ago, and I bought a tiny bowed loosely Bubis. Yes. And it burns my face. This family that's up in the mountains making whisky, you know, like little scrappy whiskey makers. So how was the whiskey it was kind of schnaps like? Burying lead there, and it was mostly I it's very young. Yeah. It's a little bit. It's definitely tastes like whiskey. It reminded me a little bit of Sri Lankan Iraq. When you're like. Okay. Well, there's some whiskey to this. But there's also a sweetness to it. So it's sort of a a whiskey dressed as a bourbon perhaps or from? That's awesome. This sort of heroic story of their transformation from schnapps makers to to whiskey people is is not yet Britain Puno, their new members of the Australian whiskey association. But really, this is really a strategic thing in the know there are a small operation, but they you know, they they're buttoned butters tourists that come through the summer. So I think they are looking at what's going on in the world of whiskey, and who comes to Austrian, y and you know, if you can sort of corner that market then you know, you probably in a pretty good position. They weren't just tasting. Whiskey in Scotland in thinking oh rate. Nice. They were probably also looking at the infrastructure, the whiskey trail the cheer amount of people who go on whiskey poem commissions. And all right. Let's let's let's start to add some of this who are our portfolio. Yeah. They are under no illusions that they could ever be, you know, making mcallen quake in their boots. And they've got like thousands of years versus ten, but I think it's just it's good business to be in booze. And you got to visit the Salzburg region. I mean, that's the Austria of the imagination short. That's the sound of music and the chocolate boxes and those salt caves, and this is the thing that I remember it from being a kid in one of the reasons I wanted to to drive through this landscape. Now, I had a car I could look at all this stuff. Again, really lovely. You know, there's some pretty pretty crazy views, I think the in certain other countries might come with a, you know, park entrance fee and a t shirt. That is just what things look like here when your days filled with looking at beautiful things like that. It's it can be kind of energizing. It's a pride that you don't remember until you see it again. On this kind of constant lifetime scale of Austrian to not Austrian. This is something that takes the meter a little bit. Like, I'm feeling a little Austrian. Right. Yeah. I mean, this is what I looked at when I was growing up how long does it drive from from China to that area? It's about four hours. You know, that's a big chunk of the country. It is it's like a sort of the it's hard to say half because Australia has this really long tail in the west east ahead. But you're you're basically going from the very eastern border to the very western border. All right. So that brings us to what is probably my favorite beverage among the three these beer, right? This was a tricky one to find. So I have friends who are from Innsbruck who had been living in Australia for a long time, and then moved back, and I was like so what's good into role? They pointed me to a few sort of mountain lookouts and a suspension bridge. And I decided that wasn't really gonna cut it. I'm not tore group that I think when I found this some your spa brewery is when I kind of I was permitting myself to make it a boost themed road trip because I had the wine in the beer, and I thought schnaps, but no actually to ROY. Role is a really interesting place. So that's the very like it's almost to the very far west of Austria. But it sort of was this independent minded place south to roll is in Italy. But it's all German speaking people because the border, Scott, arbitrarily bisected. Yes. And they sometimes make noise they wanna be independent to roll is probably my favorite place to visit in Austria because it is a little different and very beautiful and hugely mountainous. And there's just something a little bit. You know, there's something a little bit different about it to the rest of the country. Innsbruck was actually where I started my trip so chronologically, okay? And then from Innsbruck, I drove west to the Toronto valley, which is just one of those really really. Ridiculously pretty alpine views that you might see in a postcard. So you were in Toronto valley. Yes. And what did you find there? Well, I found a very old brewery coach doc and Bagga which has been brewing for a couple of hundred years maybe five hundred years maximum used to be run by women only. It was a castle for these nights that used to rule that part of to roll and eventually it passed into the hands of a wealthy who passed it into someone else's hands. So it wasn't. It wasn't by any means supposed to be a woman brewery goddess, that's how it went for a long time and in two thousand nine the current owner bought it and he's a dude. So that ended, but they're not a huge operation either. They are starting to make whisky to they had all these really atmospheric from entail tanks in the basement of their medieval castle. And I think they just said let's make this into a beer spa and spa. Yeah. Yes. What does that mean? Essentially, it means that you are there. These sort of large tanks, maybe fourteen square feet that used to hold the beer. And now they fill that with water. And then they will take about a month worth of brewer's yeast and put it in the water. And then you jump in the water a well. Yeah. Okay. And I think you can the idea is that it's like a large group might do it for a celebration. But then you sort of sit in this beer broth. It's supposed to be really good for your skin. It doesn't give you look athlete's foot. I don't know. Maybe if you do it all the time. Okay. And it's a strange concept go on your own on your own cognizance. Dear listener, it's a hot tub and the room is a lot cooler than what you'd usually get looks cooler. Yeah. I mean, you're beams or ancient, and there are old murals that looked like they could be really old. But they're really just a a modern artists who did them and you go in with your bathing suit. Yeah. I would I would say that. It's not expected that people do that. It's not it's not exactly tabu to where bathing suits in a sauna in Australia. But it kind of is you don't want to be that person. I would say that the idea is you come with a bunch of friends, and you all hang out there. Yes. Which is what people do in this on it. Anyway. But there's also a unlimited beer tap. Oh, wow. That's also great drinking a lot of beer in a hot tub. So I think I think the idea was also that it was a package deal because they also have this really big cavernous. Medieval dining hall. Okay. We're talking four hundred seats. So I think the idea is they wanna have a wedding. And then you get like eight twenty people to have a beer spas. Well, then they did tell us that, you know, this was a conscious effort to make use of a space that was really not being used at all. And they do get a lot of bachelor parties people come over from the US to do this. But I know I know they have beer baths in Prague where you sit in a bath tub with a tray and a beer and you're bathing in actual beer, but they are not just water with us. Yes. So beer beer. But that is just a bath tub. My guide pointed out this is the first of the size. This is full immersion. Very proud of having. Largest kind of Glueck spa. Yes. It sounds like a hater. It's consume. I'm a little bit of a hater consumes grows over is it something that you're just like. Yes. Ounce weird. But once you do it. It's like amazing. Well, I wouldn't need to repeat the experience for the the east part of it. Okay. I'm the fan of hot tubs. Sure. I'm a fan of crazy looking castles. And they're they're they're interesting people there. It's definitely an odd thing to do. I went to the other side of Austria. It's not very far from me. I think it might be odd to fly over from LA to swim in yeast bottom of the castle in Austria. But I mean, maybe that's their target audience fair enough. And are there other sponsor versus she gave me some beer shampoo. Your shampoo. Yes, right. Yeah. It's not very good. This is look suspiciously. Like a bottle of beer. It's sort of like unpleasantly herbal think may maybe that was not your shampoo. Maybe that was herbal schnapps shampoo. Give me the ticket back shampoos a lot like Schnapp. I won't be beer shampoo. You know, it's still a functioning brewery. That's the thing. Like, you you go there to drink beer and immerse yourself in it. If you want a warm, and you go to book, you go to book ahead, busy, oh, really popular and his popular. So can I can take all the my skepticism than just smoking because they're they're doing business out there. Thank you. Alexa. I have now to through ideas. I'm really psyched to do in Austria next time. I get there talk to you later. Thank you. The trip is hosted by me, Nathan Thornburgh produced by Josie Holtzman and Daniel Roth future projects or editors roads and kingdoms taffy Malkin yahtzee or executive producers are me and MAC Goulding. Also of roads and kingdoms. Shouts is always the Dan the automated for the music into Adele Rodriguez for the art next week. I'll be with JP McMahon. One of Ireland's greatest shifts in Galway talking a lot of shit, and drinking elder flower liqueur, we'll meet you there.

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Ep 23: A Life in the Commune with Tanja Fox

The Trip

51:13 min | 1 year ago

Ep 23: A Life in the Commune with Tanja Fox

"Before we get started this week a word from casper. This week show is about a commun- Denmark, and I've always been attracted to the radical fringe at least until it started messing with my sleep. I was in a squat in Brixton London in the early nineteen nineties and me and a German anarchist. I was seeing had this leap for some reason in a claw foot bathtub. It was murder on my back and one night. I just had to go. I left the building. And I left her. Yes. She would be disappointed now to hear me endorsing a consumer product. But nothing not even radical politics should get between you and a good night's sleep. Casper products on like metal bathtubs are designed to mimic human curves, providing supportive comfort for all kinds of bodies. The breathable design helps you sleep cool. And the whole thing is priced well because they sell directly to you without the middleman, there's shipping and returns in the US and Canada and no hassle returns. If you and that special anarchists in your life decided just not right for you. You can be sure of your purchase with Casper's one hundred night risk-free sleep on it trial. Get fifty dollars towards select mattresses by visiting casper dot com, backslash the trip and using the promo code that trip at checkout. That's fifty dollars towards select mattresses by visiting casper dot com. Backslash the trip and using the promo code the trip at checkout. Terms and conditions apply. I mean people. Yeah. Been staying here for a while. And they go man, I couldn't live like this every day. You have thousand people asking you questions and wanting a piece of you. How do you do it? And it's like I want people to stop breathing. Right. I actually do want the revolution. Not that. I want people killed or anything. But I want people to see the way you are doing your life may not be the only way not all revolutionaries where bandoliers full of bullets some of them tend to beautiful little gardens next to a wooden cottage. They built by themselves the neighborhood called dandy lion. That's the kind of revolutionary the tenure. Fox's ten years. An old friend of mine who has spent her entire life living a little bit differently and one of the world's most fascinating districts, the commune of Christiania in Copenhagen, Denmark, as a social experiment. Christiania has been remarkably resilient a bit of squatted military base. Turned hippy utopia that has lasted more or less independently for almost forty seven years now as you'll hear in this episode, which I recorded last may it is under threat like never before from the twin menaces of a hardcore narcotics trade, and increasingly master ISM tenure has seen it all his scared of nothing and is one of my heroes. This is Nathan Thornburgh. And you're listening to the trip drinking with exceptional people around the world. I'm very happy. It's mid may in Copenhagen everything's blowing and the Japanese paradise apple outside is like this pink cloud. That's like floating behind these picture windows. It's pretty ridiculous Diller dishes. A lot of birds who are out there. Singing and soon as we started recording. They just like the volume of the little bit. It's their Showtime. It is let them know yesterday at a community meeting that we doing podcast today. So I said, okay, you get extra Burt seats if you do a little more thing as morning as with any good intentional community. And the birds are also consulted on on the the plans so Christiania like you said, it's like this old military Ford this little community here. It's called dandy line. And Danish that's make bitten. But Danny line is this and it's a little community within a community. How many people live in dental on about eighty plus minus eight something in these are old pupil families this area this most families a lot of people here who has lived here since the beginning. So it's very sit people have lived here long time. And we know each other on good and bad days. We know each other, and yeah, it's it's. It's like a family, you know. So this very special place be saying, we're actually podcasting from your guest room, which is where I've been saying for the past three days here. And I think it says a lot about you. Tangent of a little bit of the the ethic of Christiania, you know, we've met five or six years ago, I've stayed in touch and your natural response when I said it is coming to town. Hey, come stay with me. Tell me what your relationship is to Christiania and kind of how it started in. How you got here in the late sixties and government headed military base in Copenhagen, and they realized that having an active military base next to parliament next to the Queen was really stupid when you are not based friends would Russia. So they got rid of the personnel. And and. Then they didn't have the plane. They just thought they could leave the empty military base there. I don't know what they were thinking, and they built to keep the Swedes out, and they build it to keep the sweets out. Yeah. I mean, the king did a couple of hundred years ago one hundred and fifty years ago, then the British bond Copenhagen breach formed which is early Brexit. Yes. There were they were pretty mad at us at some point. I think we're pretty good friends with English now. Anyway, so this is the late sixties and in that time and beginning of the seventies. There was no jobs now apartments to get young people. It was really hard to get an apartment in Copenhagen. If you wanted to arrange all you would have to be married and expecting, and then you could maybe get an apartment it was really hot to find places to live. And in that period was the awakening of the youth in America, we men's rights. I mean, all of these new peace and love against the at Phnom so being sixty. Yeah. This was getting the hanging in Copenhagen in the late sixties beginning of the seventies. Lots of political theater and awareness this area around this military base. It was a lot of workers mostly men. They would go to work building ships big huge mental ships, and they would live in small apartments rounding this military base with I don't know five kids in notorious showers, they would go to community shower of public pass, and they have to go downstairs and outside to like a Lou house. And it was I think what I imagined. Bronx was like in the old days tournament living. Yes. And so these people were actually the first people to get into the to the base because they could see that over the fence from the apartments, they could see the screen area, lots of empty buildings and no people in there. So they sort of snaked in made a little campfire and had barbecue and drink some beer and stuff and just enjoy themselves in that the kids play that is like the origin story for all the great movements. You know, it still the little fires. And that's. Will play the hormone IKA and have a good time and drink some fluid with your neighbor's wife and stuff like that. And then some young hippie person came by. And then from there just went really fast got it. All right to the hippie person comes by. And then somebody writes little story in lift wing newspaper, and the and the topic is take bus number to freedom. Take bus number eighty two free that was the number of the bus at the time to for this area. And then it went really fast, and my mom came about ten days. That's the time. It took for word to get to her, and she was political activist. And so she was part of a quite famous political theater group, and they had a meeting place in another part of town. But they came in and found that all this is a great place. So there was kind of the art and their politics, but she was of that era. Also think you you wanna live your politics to. Yes. And they did that here. This Dante line it's shaped like the houses around long. Yup. And so we can almost see each other. And I mean, I'm not saying it was like this all the time. But in general, they would sort of okay? You need to have a bad bills. Let's everybody help you built the bed, and then we can help the next one. And it would also be like this week. It's that person making food and the next week. It would be somebody else doing it. There were sort of. Sharing the chores. Yeah. Trying to and and trying to decide everything around a bonfire. And I think they were really tied of the very strict way they were brought up they had really high time with authorities. So being a child of that authority was not anything in my life. I don't remember mama saying, no. It's like. It was a thing that didn't exist because she just didn't believe in sorority way of bringing up people. I mean, she would have been raised during the war or yes. Denmark northern Europeans. Are they don't fuck around when it comes to their children? So it's very interesting to to see, you know, this group of people who had an allergic reaction eight told you did I think they are mission is absolutely beautiful. I can get tears in my eyes thinking about it talking about it. But I think it was a over the top. And I wish it would have been a little more shape in. I think children need Styron. Are these are you talking about the small things like bedtime, and should you brush your teeth is and food and food? Yeah. Stuff like that. You could actually really really tie. But nobody would put you to bid NO. Sometimes it could be like. Hey, mama. I'm hungry. But yeah, yeah. But the food is over there, and the people who were supposed to the food that they were may be too stoned. Maybe doing something else. I don't know. I have memories of not having food. My mom has other memories. But. And she doesn't like me saying this, and I'm sorry, mom. I love you. But. I mean, but she must also see the difference in the way you raised your children to because I've been more authority liar. I've had some strict rules. And when I look at it today. I think how maybe I could've loosened off a bid sometimes I was maybe being stupid. Bon. Yeah. But you were part of this cycle of action in reaction is it wasn't a reaction to the lack of not. I don't think I was really bad or anything. But I had a few days where I could have done better fishy about a witch parent doesn't have that everybody has led. So this is interesting you I mean, one of the things that makes you unique can pretty remarkable is just to have been a person who was here from the very beginning. From your earliest, childhood you were four we moved in. What are some of your earliest memories here? Well, it was. How it's like ghost town. Yeah. And then there's all this green. But everything was cleaned today. You will you see shapes here again again, it's not. So straight lines enrich really straight lines because it was a military base. So the streets were straight in the houses were straight and everything was straight into everything is sort of very ding, Hervey paths through the tall weeds back then. So it was really empty, and then there was some. Would be fireplaces outside many places because people really like to to sit around the fire. And I remember naked people. That was also kind of a protest way just taking your clothes off and showing that you were free person and for me growing up not having bathrooms at home but sharing community bathrooms. I grew up with the seeing people's bodies as totally natural saying, I'm not shocked when I see a naked. Needs actually more shocking. Seeing people how they can come up. Sometimes sing all the stupid things people where. When it was summertime here. People would be naked and here in the dandy line. Sometimes the ladies or the guys would walk around in a pair of show or skirt. And if they had to go down to the small grocery store that they would take off the the shorts to go there. Just to prove that they were strong independent people free peop-. So that's very strong memory. And then of course, I knew everybody, and there was no locks on the doors. You could just walk in it felt very safe. But I think a lot of people from our generation has this memory of freedom when you leave the house you live house. You know, you come back home when in mom and dad or whoever it is can't control you because you can't get in contact with you. So it's like a playground. There was lots of strange things here because it was an old military place. So there was leftovers from them. So. So it was exciting to finding stuff here. You could you could be scavenging for all kinds all kinds of things. Yeah. But then I mean, we were definitely here squatters, and the government didn't want us here that much I understood on the talking of the parents or the grownups to did you worry about it. As a lot about it. I would worry that that wouldn't be house when I got back home. If I went to somebody else's place when I went to school, you know, and the government took Christianity to court, and we lost. We didn't have the right to be here. But then it was coined a social experiment, and we were sort of it was okay that we were here. They didn't put it in the police when they won the case. And so they accepted us. So that moment that would have been in the seventies. That was in the seventies where they had a court order that could have just come in. They could have just come. No where to put us, and then they had a couple of hundred and young people. Speaking their minds, right trouble. Yeah. Doing political theater and stuff who in and taking off their bras and public, and oh, and if they had to put out those in the streets and with kids, and it wasn't that not a great picture. It's very funny. And I don't know how they left us alone. It's weird that they did it because if if we hit been Germans and done this in Berlin, it wouldn't have worked if we hit done it in America. I mean you so what happened in in universities in? I mean, they shot students. Right. They did shoot soon. If the we've done this in China wouldn't have happened, right? You've done it in Australia wouldn't have happened. I don't know. I think maybe this is the only place in the world where actually could happen. That the young people squad a military base. And and get to stay right. It's like, it's crazy. It's a little crazy. I mean, there's a squats this other things, but military base. That's the government that you're attacking when you're when you're squatting their buildings, right? So that's pretty odd. Going back to when you were growing up you. You did go school. Did you go to school in Christianity Christianity, Emma had schools? We had daycare centers, but they weren't sort of organized until I was a bit too old for them, but they were organized and they're still going. We have a center for small kids and for daycare and after school centers, and we have a peaceful you for young people like he club. They can hang out. But I went to school outside. I went to very small school with one hundred and twenty kids and my teacher was an American communist a while. Yeah. Who came to Denmark? It's based actually he doesn't live anymore. The best teacher behead was the sky. He taught me so many things like if I break window. You know, he's the guy who taught me how to put in a window. He taught me things that I can use in my life. The other schools that I've gone to they tried to teach me to read and riding spill and do math. And of course, I can read and stuff. But the things they taught me I never remember that this is something that I learned that guy. He taught me a lot of things, and yeah, as an American communists, I would assume that he was also good to the children of Christiania while he was good to orchids, and he was the type of teacher that would stay at school after work and just still funny ghost stories and if the sun was shining day, and it was too hard. He would say okay kids. Let's go, and we would go to the forest than he would teach in the forest. He would do mass with leaves and trees and steaks and in the summertime also go to the kitchen garden and teaches stuff how to cope with chicken. You know, how to job off the head. And what's inside it? Learn what chicken looks like on the inside. And then you have you biology class, and he was just a living teacher. What about the other students? They did they did. They know you guys. Yes. They did. It was it was a little bit off at the time. Even though I went to this very special school at some kids were sought we will beard, and I was polit- for for some of that because strange clothes, and you know, my momma would make this when I look at the patriots today. Beautiful clothes today. They would say it was customized close or decide close. And there was as they just wanted to have von Bulow or Lee trousers. And and look totally like everybody else, that's a common instinct among kids. So that was a little bit hard. But. Eventually it's turned into now. Kids say, oh, you live in Christiania. Can I come see your place? I'll you're so lucky because increase January we have horses and dogs and rabbits and cats and the FOX's outside, and you can have campfires, and you can climb the trees and all the stuff that you can't do in an apartment. If you listen to last week's episode, you would know that I'm taking this New Year's resolution thing very seriously. I mean, I still have not had a drink in two thousand nineteen and I just don't know who I am anymore. In case, you're looking to make health and wellness a priority. And this new year, I'm going to tell you about care of monthly by women subscription service. You start by taking an easy online quiz to personalize your subscription. Just spend five minutes telling them few things about your goals in your diet, and they'll tailor daily packs of vitamins and supplements, which they'll send right to your door every month and because not everybody in our great Republic can afford such things. A portion of every sale goes toward the good plus foundation, which provides expectant mothers in need with valuable prenatal vitamins. Take advantage of this month's special New Year's offer for fifty percent off of your first month of personalized care of vitamins. Go to take care of dot com and entered the trip fifty that's the trip five zero again for fifty percent off of your first month of personalized care of vitamins. Go to take care. Of dot com and enter the trip fifty. What did you do when you came out of school? Then I moved away from very early in shock now because I was thirteen when I moved out where to go, I live just across you. So my mom was living down there. They know where there with my ahead friend. She hurt that lived over here. And so I I lived over there. How did your mom take the? Well, because of the Nana sorority point of view, she would go. So do you need anything? You know, I can think to they why didn't she demand me to calm. But I wouldn't I was like pardon. My French fuck off mom, you know, I'm gonna live my life. Now. I don't give shit. So she could try to get me home. I wouldn't have gone. Yeah. And that's Bank fair. That's something that she instilled in you from young. Hey, but she said if you need anything you just come around, which is cool. But then I went to school, and then I got a job to you went to school. Like you went to university note. It was just it was I guess seventh six seventh grade that job you you were making Schneider. Pro I did I did sandwiches opened sandwiches. So you guys you probably don't know this, but one of the greatest things ever in Denmark. These you can say the word snap smart. Smear bread. That's funny. Fanta their snap. Sm- smell road is amazing. It's like an open face sandwich topped with like usually some kind of mix of like savory pickle and like creamy, and it's just like an absolute pleasure. And you used to make them right down here downtown and your customers were so high that they were just just making these hailing them and Danish they say it'll sleep which is eating trippy attributing or something. They would do that. And of course. Working in a place like that being thirteen that wasn't really on the record. Right. Right. But you know, I needed money the places need. It was not a this was like a wild west town. Nobody had licensed to sell food or to sell beer or anything. It was just a little joint that somebody put up break built themselves with their neighbors family. And you know, it's interesting. I mean, actually in some ways, it reminds me of my mother who is you know, this very kind gentle soul but lives in key west where things can get out of hand. Sometimes it has lived there since the seventies and just watching her interact with people who've Superdrug or you know, kind of just out of their gourd or don't take personal responsibility or something which is just the things that you have to deal with in when you're living in a place that attracts a special kind of person I've seen you, you know, as we're walking around Christianity sometimes in somebody's just got our. You know, some, you know, on some other planet and just kind of, you know, barking her howling or whatever, and you have this very calm wave like, hey. Yeah. Okay. That's fine. Have a nice, you know, and it's like such a it's such a beautiful manner of dealing with people who are in these altered and sometimes even aggressive like little states. And I guess part of it is just practice. You grew up in space where some people are super high some people, aren't you just, you know, you never really know. And you just don't know what to expect. I always think the base wave of meeting people is being audited. Sometimes I have to react in a different way. And you'll be happy that you don't see that. I have because if I see somebody being physical and aggressive, I would react very fast. My voice will go from zero to a hundred in no time, I have learned here that the best way in. I have this my voice. And I try I think a little bit like the small animals to protect themselves. They can make really big noise and in this place, it's really odd. Because. If there is a fight in by here. Then you don't call police. Right. You don't do that in this community? You only call the police if there's a mood or something like that. It's not common to call police in this old scored. They do come around a lot. But nobody asked him to them too. I mean, obviously as a community there's kind of a community policing, but just you personally for dealing with life with people. So you moved out at thirteen started selling open face witches, very stoned people. Among other things. Yeah. And his barter is cash at that candidate data, and it was totally awfully which is I made it. It's also amazing of misconceptions that people have about Christianity. And Christianity nights is like a deep bench of things that they get wrong about this place, but this ideal so that there's not a working culture here. He had so many businesses and then everybody pays takes in Denmark. You can't get out of paying taxes if you receive social welfare patex of that nobody in Denmark, it's out of Texas only resit. So everybody works the size of Christianity and others. How many people are living? I think about six hundred twenty six hundred thirty appear granite Kaban hundred kids in the the land size. It's seventeen acres. I think okay, it's sizable and the way that it spread out. It's also like gives the impression of more size because you really kind of it's this long thin thing. So you have all of this hustle of activity. Throughout two, you know, when you first come in most people come in off of Princess street right now. And that's the kind of main entrance in this is the place that you call downtown of the feeling there is is very different than up here. You know, we we have the pink cloud of the paradise apple outside and the birds chirping down there. One thing there's a ton of people 'cause visitors. There's people coming to make business. There's you know, it's just kind of the most dense place, but there's also pusher street, which is both in traction and ailment in the community. So I wanna talk a little bit about that. I didn't think I think really. Probably when people have heard about Christianity in this probably true for a lot of Danes. They think about pusher street, not about the, you know, the things that you've been talking about the extraordinary exceptionalism of this place of you know, after almost fifty years of independent living all of that is kind of lost in the the the main focus like, that's where you buy hash. And a lot of people who get hit also things they come in. They go through push street. And then at the end of the street, they turn around and they go out because now they've seen it. Right. Right. I think that's it man. That's that's stuff. They came for and the common thing that I hear that now. And I've actually heard this quote, quite a few times. But this one was really spatial in its George, George. It's not a theme park people actually live here, by the way, that's ten years American. Accidents whenever she wants to make fun of American people talk to each other. It starts with George George and some some days uncouple with the guy named George walked down your window, and let seared impression in your mind. So here's George and his wife is telling him after all it's not a theme park there actually people who live here, but Danes have this. They think that's what it is. They think push street is Cristiano pusher street has nothing to do with the idea of Christiania. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe the hippies wanted it legalized and stuff, and I don't mind that it would be legalized. I think it's stupid that it's not the people who seek needs to smoke joint or something. We're talking about marijuana hash. That's the pusher street. That's pushing their right, but I'm against and that's where it makes me an odd person. I'm against capitalism in its role form. In in that way. I don't mind people making a living. But I think that we have to me this really against my view. And I think people don't need that much wealth live. I mean, if you have food and stuff, you know, why why do you need more all the time? Yeah. I don't know that a lot of people have a real good time in pusher street. It seems like pretty intense pretty competitive. I mean, I don't know the people down there. Now, I don't like walking through everyday, but I went through recently, and they offered me my. Anna at people have never seen before. And I just looked at the store. I went really oh. Or you live. Yeah. Man. I do. So I could have been a cop. He wouldn't have known. He didn't read absolute idea what he was doing. He was just trying to make money. The in the context for this is interesting, especially in the states where we have a combination of incredibly regressive narcotics laws. But also now we've kind of growing legalization we'd is very illegal in Denmark. Pusher street is not some sort of you know, state sanctions free fire zone. It's actually just illegal drug market that has taken advantage of the kind of insular nature Christiania to kind of pop up, and you know, they have these incredible, you know, raids that go on where they'll just tear everything down. And then the next day a few hours later seven the next day the police out they will start rebuilding and selling again. Right. Right. So it's just like a little society. It's just you know, you've got your crime. You've got your high aspirations. It's yet your decent people got your confused people. So it's yeah. And I think it's it's sad that we use so much time with the dealing the push street. I think it could be fun using more time on building. Funny playgrounds or turn it on people's housing. Well. Kindergartens of you know, I don't know. Let's you know, what's the new thing. What's the new bracing thing to do every once in a while when they're worried about a raider something, they'll come in stash some shit somewhere. They tried to like they try to like it feels like they're trying to drag the rest of the community or maybe it's just by its nature, you know, kind of drags the rest of the community into it. And it has makes you guys have to take a stand. People can do what they want drink wine on smoke. Whatever. But I really tied of crucial street would love it to move to Tivoli. Yeah. Oh, new Haman be great. And then we could do funny stuff here. Instead. Yeah. Make odd exhibitions installations of concert. So I whatever I'm with you. Let's leave pusher street behind. Thank you and go back to go back to the one thousand nine hundred eighty S nineteen nineties que did you did you ever leave Christiania? Well. Yes, I did in small periods. But I always came back. It's like it drags me in. I don't know what it is. It's like, maybe there's a magnet. I don't know. It's just pulling me in all the time and tide. I don't know what it is something striking me in. I've stayed. Outside in Copenhagen if you times, and I've stayed with my dad when he was living. He my dad is originally from Los Angeles, and he came because of the non wont to Denmark, he didn't believe in killing and when he had been here for eleven years immigration to a stranger and had a farm there. And so I've been there as well. So so I commute between here. And there this is this is one of ten years secrets is an open secret. One of the reasons why she does that George Jackson's away ten years and American with an American passport Danish. Danish passport an American family, but you never you never were sort of called to try to live there or Australia or no, no, my father had one point wanted me to come live in Australia in speaking about unusual. Childhoods like they said you around the world by yourself when you were nine. Yes, I flew around the world when I was nine on my own to visit Australia and then afterwards, I flew to America to my grandfather in the night, flew home. Yeah. Actually, sent me home three days before my mom expected me. So she had a shock when she came home when I was in the apartment, okay. Better three days before the new three days. But you know, I did some funny things in my life. And I think that it made me willing to be open minded, sometimes I can also have them. Prejudice fishy to I mean, that's a normal thing for people, but because of the childhood here and the operating at other places in the world, my father took me traveling all over Asia when I was a kid as well. And and seeing that makes me like sometimes I have to stop myself and go. Oh, yeah. It's right. I just have to see people have different culture than me. And that helps when you live in place like this bright, his you're constantly being tested to everything about the concept. Like how opened can I be like two other people in what is happening with this? And what does it do to me as well? Then like, oh, man. I couldn't live like this every day. You have thousand people asking you questions and wanting a piece of you. How do you do it? And it's like I want people to start breathing. Right. I. I actually do want the revolution. Not that. I want people killed or anything. I, but I want people to see the the way you are doing your life may not be the only way to be open to change. And I'm not saying our system is the best at all or the Pakistan way is the best system or the Russian way or the American way. But I'm saying maybe in Pakistan. They're doing something at in some way that I could use maybe in Russia that doing something that I could use maybe an American they have. And if you can take the best from everybody, then you can start creating a life that would be amazing. Well, it's even I mean just opening the idea it's just about a different way of living. And that could be a thing that people can entertain and revenue is just change of system. And even though I'm really sick of tourists. I want them to come and have a picture to take home or an idea to take home the the way they're living. Maybe they can change it. Because if everybody changed a little bit, you might have the butterfly fake, right? Doesn't sound weird. Maybe does I don't maybe I'm just, you know, just put you're not the only one. I had. I mean, it's one of the things that is different. I think from the last time I visited when I was here with you five or six years ago is there are actually a lot more interest in this part of Christianity like it's much thicker, and so you have this. But you were just saying I think rightly so it's like it's silly for people to come into push street, and then turn around and say that was Christiania like action. This to me is like this is the real cushy, and you're just like people trying to live life and a little different way to figure out how to get along with each other and make decisions in a way. That's not top down. You know, all of those like really good valuable fascinating things they happen here. This is the main business of this part of Christiania pusher street is also paddock Christina. So it's also real. But it's right. It's not the it's not the developing of community. Right. And so right. But so you have a lot more people who are coming up here. And it's a pain in the ass. Totally. Yeah. I mean, so tell me feels like I think like twin plagues on Christiania. You've got the pusher street, you've got mass tourism. So tell me tell me about the tourism. And like what what that's like living here, and why it's actually so much more pronounced a I guess even than before since we bought for Shania, but six years ago now the public that then the state they can also go this Christiania and show it off because now we have being integrated with being normalized if being a part of Copenhagen, we should take moment to talk about everybody. Because that's the moment that I was here in the story that I did in my part, owner of Christianity. I bought some area, but your shit doesn't give you any rights. Yeah. Fuck or. The only share in the world is not worth anything. But my my investment advisor is getting fired. This shares of Chris janea is. Not even worth the paper. It's it is actually gorgeous paper gorgeous. It's. It's donation paper. It says that you made it donations to the foundation of. But it says an Danish. So I. Oh, man. I have no excuse then for misunderstanding of the nature of my relationship. The money just goes into the foundation that pays the government. Right. And it was essentially a deal with the government to raise money enough money to buy this land. And then kind of like normalize all the structures of ownership and renting. And so that you wouldn't have that attornal squatters for your in perpetrated. And also means that example, here we're sitting in what's this cost? It's like an attic room. It's built the windows something that he and my ex husband put in. Okay. And we it before this Riemann with the government, and after that agreement with the government this building has been preserved. And luckily this weekend was made before because if we had done that then we wouldn't have been allowed really, so no more. No, more funding business cannot just built with because January. It's like, oh, I live in the small house wagon. I want to have put an extra room. I'm on. I talked to my neighbors. We have this phone meeting. Everybody likes it. Oh, maybe one APIs. Oh, could you move little bit west because then the then I can get my evening sun. And then okay. You change the drawings. And then go ahead. Built. But now you have to have the permit of the government's while if you don't have that permit and they find out which they do because they take pictures all the time drones. And with I mean, they do it all the time. They will find you. They'll come for you, or they'll tear it down. They will come for. You will give you a huge fine like fifty thousand nine hundred thousand a year while which is like it's insane. We made an agreement. So that's where we are. Now, we don't have that kind of freedom anymore just to and that's why you see funny houses here because people were building they had no clue what they were doing. They had dream. They bottle. Waken, and they started very and it ended up being castle and they were carpenter suddenly because they taught themselves built this is not happening anymore in that way. Christina was like the wild west than the old days. The Scandinavian people coming out people from only when the world coming to America with a little horse wagon. And I want this piece of land, and oh, I feel the house here. Right. And you have a funny building. This is what it was like. Yeah. I mean, there's a whole other set of stories about the building and architecture and city planning here. It's amazing. When you look at that, it's while, but that is that chapter and that book is closed, although there is a few houses that we already turned down. We took down seven houses and rebuild five in a little captions. And in another couple of us. There is houses further out in them in the greenery of that has to go. Now, those houses are being torn down. Not right now, but very soon. And so, of course, we can't take people out of the house. We have to rebuild the house for them in another location, and that's really tough. Some people have made those houses by themselves for scratch. And it's a lot of emotion somebody out of their house in that way. But that's the remade. So you made this deal. And that also means now that the city of Copenhagen can turn around and sell Christiania as a as a distinct experience for visitors. And they're they've been successful in doing that they had and now it's on everybody's list. Obsequious jagna. So you have this confluence of things you have, you know, the kind of increased visibility from the tourism board perspective, and, you know, by the way, like just all over Copenhagen. It's just jam packed with people, and it's insane. The mass tourism coming. Here is is intense. And and Christianity is is now a part of that. But you also have a time when everybody has a camera in their pocket and wants to take one hundred pictures day to prove that they were somewhere. I've heard you kind of talk about this like, it's not a petting zoo. If like you're actually living here, and yet you see it like people are just kind of coming through and looking through your windows and saying like is Christianity at home. You know, like, I don't know if you noticed the downstairs. It wasn't like that. When you were here the first time, but no I have plastic on the windows that you can't see through because I was just sick of having people pointing the, you know, looking through the windows and also taking pitches through the windows of into my house and have this funny. Sign aware of grumpy old lady, but I don't wanna be the growth here. And it's not the person it's the amount yet. If I talk to every tourist, I bet they're nice people. They're nice people from Hungary on ice people from FRANZ of Liam mound of them and all of them asking the same question. Even though I believe that. There are no stupid question. But when you've heard the same questions one hundred times a day, you get tired, right and. I'm not good enough at giving out information. That's the thing. And that's the thing in Christianity that we have to deal. I think we should be much better at guiding the tourists, right? I mean, we should have signs up all small things that you can for your blood mobile phone into to scan. Whether they call the QR codes or something, you know, that you could just do that. But increase chain, there's some people make obstruction when you say, oh, that's true commercial where shooting do that. That's to commercial, but they're here already. Right. You know has anybody thought about limiting the number of visitors. Any punishable women do that because it's a public area? We had a couple of years ago we closed for week and we close all the gates. We catered it and the freaked out the the people in parliament the most conservative right wing. Danish for perceive were like, they they he'd foreigners. The he everybody of they normally they hate Christianity. And they said over the gates. This is a public area. You cannot close it off. I thought they would be happy that we closed. So you wouldn't spread your message of peace and low, but but they wanted the money they wanted the tourism and the locals outside small businesses. You're like, hey, man. When are you gonna open because we do business right when when tourists coming? They don't buy stuff and seven eleven don't buy stuff in the supermarket ready. So you're like in avoidably of incredibly valuable part of this city. Of course, it's interesting because like even just handing them a card when they get there like has some frequently asked questions, and then maybe just a gentle reminders that. You know, try not to like stick your head and people's windows. I think the real simple one would be, you know, take nothing, but pictures, leave nothing, but footprints and kill nothing, but time. Be like that would be very good at each entrance here. It's a very special place. I wish there was a way to communicate that in contribute. You know? I mean, which is I guess part of what we can do with this podcast, but just kind of contribute to the understanding without making your life tougher. That's I don't know how to do that. I think. Everybody who travelled myself included has to remember when we go traveling. We tourists. And we are a little bit like water week it in angry where and when we do that we have to respect we have to remember that people have a life, and we might not be the first ones there and really treat locals with respect. But travelers just have in mind that when you go this at someplace, you our guest, that's simple. Very simple. Thank you for being so open when you could have been very tired of people like me. I feel very very fortunate to be in your life. I appreciate it. The trip is hosted by me, Nathan Thornburgh produced by roads and kingdoms taffy Malkin yahtzee is our editor and our lydian stone. Emily Marinov is our producer executive producers are me and Matt Goulding also roads and kingdoms music by Dan, the automated over on roads and kingdoms dot com. We've published a heartfelt 'Save from chef and humanitarian, and friend of the podcast was hundreds who's been feeding migrants and federal workers. Like this month, we need shorter walls. He writes on roads and kingdoms and longer tables. Amen. Next week on the trip. It's that artist. The one fast company called the illustrator and chief the one I think every week on this podcast for doing our logo and our art. You've seen Adele Rodriguez worked not just here. But on magazine covers and posters everywhere. The one of melting Trump the president in a white Klan hood, the president holding up the severed head of lady liberty. But you may not know what all of that. I comic work has to do with adele's childhood in Cuba, only, I can do this kind of stuff that I'm thinking about because of my background. I can tie the stories together. I know what ship was and I could see how this can become one. Slowly, we'll meet you there.

Christiania Denmark Copenhagen America Australia Nathan Thornburgh apple ISM Russia murder commun- Denmark US casper Casper Casper Brixton London Fox
Episode 64: Surviving the 60s Scoop

The Trip

1:09:59 hr | 9 months ago

Episode 64: Surviving the 60s Scoop

"Hey there Nathan here. You are about to hear a brand new episode of the trip. I wanted to share this episode with you because the guests this week. Not Gu said. It has an unbelievable story of loss and resilience that says so much about the lives of indigenous people in Canada. I hope that you enjoy it. I invite you you to join me for all episodes of the trip on its new home in the luminary podcast APP. Luminary premium is the only place you'll find all episodes of the trip as well other premium ad free shows. You cannot hear anywhere else like a brand new show called food actually with Tamar Adler which is a nerdy magical the deep dive into the real stories behind the things that we eat right now you can sign up for luminary premium and take advantage of special holiday pricing of three ninety nine a month for a full year and you can cancel at any time. Sign up today at Luminary. PODCASTS DOT COM. That's luminary podcast. Dot Com for this limited time holiday offer available only in the US UK Canada and Australia pricing subject to local currency offer expires December fourth. Two Thousand Nineteen terms apply reach records workout. It says Cafe Mazo Round. So that's half cafe and the other half. Hey good how are you good to see. You always waiting waiting. Yeah I'm Nathan. Low It fits reach you. Can you tell you in building your supposed to sign the lease. I think tomorrow Yep to make sure that I can literally. We need them to happen by November. We're opening in November. Yuck word is out pointed much dollars montrealers absolutely. We're right across the street. You know where we're going digital lifeless who doesn't like you like Population then people from donor. Yeah I like his steria like outlawed. Yeah well we're going to be right across the street so it's not fired Meld me so restaurant. Yeah the old McDonalds McDonalds memories. I really care for anyway. This has been vent traditionally actually gathering place used to be new at health center. A block away and they would come here to speak their language Aw share country food so country foods food caught in the wild. Caribou Arctic Char Seal. It would bring down. Yeah so relatives from the North would often bring down food caught in the wild and they speak the language in an an and eat it together and it's amazing. When Anyway Cheer Country Food Become Alive is something to behold cabin square for decades really has been a kind of meeting place so there is a sense in which it is their territory? It's it's a space that they've made their own and right now with all the condos going up literally on every side of the square The pressure is never been higher to make the annual disappear. uh-huh I have some cards and so I wrote over McDonald's and it's a temporary measure but Maybe I'll run over and get some bergers coming back with them right there. He knows they're going to be here because they know I'm coming back. How are you doing man? This is the pre-thanksgiving thanksgiving. Oh thank you are bless you. God bless you breath in the center of Cabot Square in downtown Montreal. There is a high column topped with a statue of this a spice trader John Cabot who landed on candidates coast more than five hundred years ago sitting on the benches all around the statue unloved unheated unheated on housed are the descendants of the people whom cabot landed on a semi permanent population of homeless mostly indigenous mostly in Menu with people who live in or around the square. This episode was recorded on Canadian thanksgiving a holiday that is all too similar in its its origins and implications to the US version. So what am I thankful for. I am thankful for a holiday. That in its sheer gouty revisionism vision ISM offers at least a chance to raise a question that all non native people in the Americas should ask of ourselves more often. What the fuck what have we done? What the fuck are we continuing to do? Candidate may have a cuddly reputation down in the states. But there is blood on this corner of the Commonwealth and even as you'll hear in those moments where the country has flashed good intentions. They've often been built on the back of some. I'm deeply racist. Shit the land theft the political pillage cultural erasure. It's all an ongoing multi generational trauma as this episode's guests put. Her name is a name that she had to reclaim after growing up as an adoptee in a Jewish family in Montreal. Aw She not only has a profound and moving life story. She is also the longtime executive director of the native women shelter of Montreal together with one of her longtime collaborators. David Chapman whom you heard delivering McDonald's like some kind of hamburger Santa Claus around Cabot. Swear knock who said his also the driving force I behind the new resilience Montreal Center. That center will be right across the street from the statue of John Cava and it is no less a monument a monument into community a monument to an older and better value system than settler capitalism. A monument to the incredible survival skills of Native Canada native native Canadians a monument to resilience. All of this has played out. Innocuous sets professional life all plays out in her personal life so I should also warn you that we're going to laugh and joke and drink are MOCHA and coffee. Morale's going to talk a bit about suicide. If you or someone you were close to are in distress please take a moment to reach out for help. I'll put some resources in the show notes. This is Nathan Thornburgh and from roads and Kingdoms Luminary media. You're listening to the trip drinking with exceptional people around the world here. We are so. Tell me. Tell me what day it is. I mean we're going to date this podcast. 'cause it won't be a little while. Today is Monday but in Canada here. It's officially thanksgiving. It's Thanksgiving and you've chosen. Listen to spend at least some part of this holy festival with me Talking instead of gathering around Turkey and so on as an indigenous person and cre- as someone who works with these populations in this politics like what is thanksgiving. What is Canadian thanksgiving to you? Well you know I mean it's funny because my Son's friend came by the other day. And he's like I'm GonNa go to sixpence giving me bear killing Indians when you do it. He's like are you talking about. I'm like well that's pretty much what it's all about right. Settlers arrived here. We you know. Fed Them And then they had enough of us. You know. Sort of like everything changed the whole dynamics Accounta- changed and you know although the settlers this is still being thankful I think you know for indigenous people this kind of holidays very difficult on so many levels right so they call like anti colonial day or whatever. There's so many different names for it but I mean I think. Holidays for indigenous people in general are tough because one thinks of Thanksgiving where you get together as a family and you sit around a table and your share food. But what if you don't have family and what if you we don't have food. And you can actually be participatory in this holiday. And you know like I did make a Turkey now of course I grew Rupa jewelry and it was adopted by Jewish. So you know wasn't really are thing right. We have like Yom Kippur though is just a couple of days ago so anyway my son wanted Turkey. I made a Turkey and then after I ate Turkey with my kids and I always like building super guilty. I got Jewish guilt but afterwards I just like what about all these people in the street that are hungry at about them. What are they doing? So you know carved up the Turkey and You Know David. Chapman came with me and we went down to campus. Growing gave it out you know and it's kind of funny because that's having the Indian show up and give it to the homeless homeless. I mean there was two in e women and three other non indigenous people. And it's like look at us. We're still doing. They have learned nothing. But it took a thing. It's a great thing. It's a good story. Because it's it's kind of about reclaiming reclaiming what could otherwise be full on imposed piece of bullshit and just making something that's actually genuine and good out of it. Thing is that I mean honestly you should see their faces light up you know. Would you like some like Turkey and mashed potatoes. Yeah I would left at the end. What is the impact of that? And how it you know if we go by you know the next day you know. They'll remember that. Yeah you're the one that came with Turkey that was really call thank you. Yeah especially especially on this day you can feed them and their needs are three sixty five but on a day where everybody else is. Do the pictures that everybody's around the table Canadian thanksgiving falls on Columbus Day in the United States. which is now increasingly? And this is true in New York In my kids school calendars and I think they're like five states. Now that for the first time this year celebrating indigenous Peoples Day instead of Columbus Day a like New Mexico for the first time which is super crazy because you would think it might have occurred to them by now like main Washington. DC MINNESOTA. I think Vermont Vermont. I Dunno I is that like symbolic an empty or is it. Is that a good start for shut start. I think that those has to be be sort of somebody who who pushes for that to happen right. I mean even in Canada we have an aboriginal or indigenous. Stay whatever you WANNA call it because they keep changing our you know our title or whatever her name is but you know. That's June twenty-first and what's the basis for that day just like well I mean it falls on the summer solstice but I'm not exactly sure when the government decides that is official day but at some point they decided did it was and You know at Cabot Square for the last couple of years. I get funding from the city of Montreal to have a like concert. So I hire all kinds of indigenous musicians and performers that come Under there for about three to four hours and it's outside in the park So those that could actually never be able to afford a ticket to any of these bands. Get it for free and we also have like the soapstone sculpture guys. That come men do workshops and by community organizations that show up and so people like regular people just arrive and the listen into the music and they see the pride of the people they see the organizations that are affiliated with the population. And they learn something and you know. There's even this guy that I bring down from Arizona and he's a world-class Hoop Dancer. And he comes down with his two sons and it's like blows everyone out of the park. I mean we even have the daycares last show up just for it. It's really it's really good. and every year gets bigger and bigger and necesary had like politicians. I shut up. I don't really like politicians. Don't believe in them. But you know like like you don't like the Christmas Santa Claus don't believe in them or well. I don't know what they do for us. Really what do they do for. I figured that the only reason why they can get on stage to be like happy Aboriginal Day was if they did something so there were two politicians that actually helped the native woman's shelter and that was their ticket on you. Help us. You give some kind of you know financial help or advocacy. Then you get to speak. That's about as you're the bouncer of the lake. who gets who gets pretend? They're they're on our side but they have to actually have to be authentically on our side not over ten so that we'll see what happens next year. Beware we're all you've virtue signaling. Do nothing not quite real politicians. WHO said is you're on your on her list I guess that's part of you know it's not just a personal thing. That can make Thanksgiving difficult in your whatever your life situation or circumstances but it is that political article thing like these holidays have power right. There's like I mean that's what's so crazy about Columbus Day and the fact that however many states are now calling it indigenous. There's still more states that call a Columbus and that's just like straight up genocide day and we already have another one of those and thanksgiving. You know we obliquely commemorate and celebrate genocide. So Oh it's like. There is a power to the naming. I guess in those things. And then if that also coincides with some government money money to throw a great concert and be able to celebrate your friends and call out by their conspicuous absence. You're not friends than than something to it but it's also about Oh you know education because even though you know there are people that know that aboriginal days. June twenty-first most people don't rate so why aren't the elementary schools US participating and it usually it's the last day of school anyways but it's not acknowledged at any of the elementary high schools some universities so we do a lot of media media to make sure that people are aware of this day. I want my kids. You know. My kids are cre- I want them to know that this is their day. You know and at some point I mean you know. It's it's really difficult because in particular Quebec of the Government kind of ignores all the Indigenous people so if we have eleven nations of Quebec you wouldn't if you ask someone on the street got side Mats Company nations. That'd be like were like they don't know why don't you know why so. I guess I have going to have to kind of choose your battles in in terms of how you can educate but when it's something where you have music and an art and People celebrating. That's the beginning. There's so much work to do but at least that's a start and you know I won't be doing it forever. Eventually someone else will continue doing it. I'm not like a young check their like but you know I'll all do it as long as I can. And it's not like the government just gives me money. I have to apply for money. Fill up paperwork. Make sure that we have all the insurance and liabilities and then I literally have to go in front of a jury off concert in French. I have to explain why for aboriginal. They would do such a thing and one year wanted wanted. The jury members said well. Do you really think that's the appropriate thing to like You know have a concert like why don't you help the people and I had I hire a psychologist at the shelter. That also speaks perfect French so she answered that it was like twenty four seven. That's all we do is help the people people don't get one day to celebrate like one day well and also that idea that this is something that you had said in one of your Talks I'll I'll put it in the show notes that indigenous people only make the news through the four days right and it's like drunk drumming dancing or dead and it feels like part of having powers having the right to be fully rounded people who might also like to throw a concert and have a celebration celebratory laboratory day and I would assume that that's part of your constant battle is like both getting resources for the very dire need and also telling you know the very tough stories including including your own but but having people appreciate that that there's a lot of joy and that good cultural capital that still left in these communities and and amazing talent and amazing resilience because people don't understand where we came from and everything that we've been through people don't know about the Indian act the you know a little bit about residential school. Almost nobody knows anything about the sixties scoop and the fact that continues today. It doesn't just end because the policy you know was was removed moved. The actions continue sell. Yeah it is a constant theme that just constant source of astound meant and bewilderment for for me. The you know we have these same issues in the states with With with race just on the African American side and just how people think well because everybody is equal before the law. Now that somehow in the sixty five was so long ago and not realizing that you know this shit is like it's like yesterday Sturday and it's also going to be tomorrow if you don't even stop to look at it but that seems like a good a good moment to To talk about your story which began not in Quebec but like three thousand kilometers away and in Scotch on like Thompson Manitoba born Mike Community Sasketchewan. Okay spy you're not. My Band is by. My mother moved around a lot so she ended up in Thompson. Manitoba so tell me tell me about your life story in particularly the those that early Beginning because it runs into all these policies that people don't know about okay so I my mother went onto the Prince Albert residential school And that really affected her so she wasn't really able to bring up children but she had like seven children fan and and these residential schools again just for me as an American knowing far less about this than I should and far less even about the Canadian Canadian versions of these things but describe what the residential school system was. What was it aim? I have a long story. The EH It's a government policy that the Government and churches implemented really. I think they started like in the late. Eighteen hundreds ndreds so after they started creating the treaties with all the different Nations and start taking their lands and basically through the Indian Act. We weren't allowed to actually be Indians. You'd have to read it to see. The last thing that they decided to do is create residential schools. So these schools you had to go to And if you didn't give up your kids who were arrested and they would basically go in with buses and just grab all the children and bring him far away to schools not like schools that were close by but super prefer away because it's harder to run back intentionally and there. They weren't allowed to have anything to do with the culture given new names You know cut cut off all their hair given really crappy food. It wasn't really about education what it was about was assimilation because when you finish residential schools you lost her Indian status so you became like while it's just like an absolute erasure absolutely totally now. The thing is I'm from Treaty six so I five dollars a year for being an Indian. That was the agreement with with Mike Chief. And you know the the Queen and Because I get five five dollars for being an Indian. It means that everyone in my band is allowed this money. There's a pot of money that the government is supposed to hold onto and slowly. Dole it out to everyone but if you go to residential school you'll lose that five dollars you'll lose your land you lose your title. You lose all your sort of benefits that we get like I get my teeth eighth cleaned and I get glasses. I get ten sessions of psychologists and these are ongoing benefits. Yes basically we. We took everything thing and you get your teeth cleaned. Isn't that a great deal. Yea I also get post-secondary education right so I was able to go and once. I got my Indian status owes able to go back go to school and get an education but back to residential school once that was really it was assimilation policies. So you lose your title of being indigenous S. or you know you lose your treaty rights. you get rid of the language the culture and everything else and it was basically beaten out of the children. I mean it was a horror stories. Among among horror stories that happened at residential school and they lasted almost two hundred years. chillingly talk about intergenerational trauma. This is the generation. So even though I didn't go to residential ential school I was intergenerational traumatized and my mother was unable to bring up her kids because of what happened at residential school and her coping mechanism awesome was to drink and to go party. And you know to not have any healthy relationship so we all have pretty much different fathers and you know I was in Thomson Johnson with my older sister Sonya and My mother used to leave us for days to ourselves and Sonya is really cool because she was able to like find a way to feed us and make all these crazy like food like crackers and like condensed milk and eggs. And I mean it's amazing in my life but and then you say the older sister but she was three years old at six three much older still very very young child. Yeah but she was. She felt very responsible for me. And then eventually The police came with the social workers and took us away and brought us to a foster home and I think we moved around from foster home to foster home and we were always together. which was isn't which was great by started creating the aim adopted Indian or Medi Program? And because I was three and didn't have much. I guess us you know sort of baggage. I was considered adoptable and they took my picture and brought it here to Montreal Jewish family services. They put me like an a catalog where somebody could shop visual. All the Jewish community would go because they got rid of all the other children in only giving out indigenous kids. It was a policy that happened across Canada. So everyone in the seventies seven days. That was the new policy. We're only giving out native kids. Forget the white kids for the moment only native kids and they did it through newspaper clippings and all that I can and sort of like I can almost feel as a as a white man. I can almost feel the self congratulation that they must have felt while adopting this progressive policy of of of Indians only considered a Mitzvah. You take the kid you know you're doing a good deed it for them. You're going to give them a good life have clean water and food. They bought into that whole aspect but they never actually addressed rusty cultural differences. So when I when I was taken away and brought here overnight You know it was like don't home their native data. Don't tell them anything about who where they're from. Don't tell them there anything. Just you know I was put into fine. You know I was instant you Wendy Hebrew school. I can literally speak Hebrew than can speak cree and brought up but looking very different right. I had a blunt brother and a blonde sister. It was super obvious that it wasn't part of the family. And for whatever reason I already had a cultural pride at the age of three whereas telling everyone that lived in a teepee. I'm not sure where I came up with that. But away And but your your adopted parents told you to tell people that you were Israeli. As to explain your dark hair you know we have one sephardic child into in two or something but even at that age at least and you're telling you were like no thank you know 'cause I I had some memories didn't have a lot of memories right but I had some whereas my sister woke up the next morning and so that was gone and it just it destroyed her rushes like where to go. She thought that maybe our mother came and picked me up and brought me back home and left Sonya Law in the foster home but you know And later on when she was reunited with my with my mother and noticed I was there kept looking for me and my mother seem to know where it was and my sister ended up bouncing single round from one place to another where it'd be foster home group home back to my mother on the streets foster home group home? That's how she spent like the next. You know I don't know how many like twelve or thirteen years of her life before she was just sort of autonomous and was on her own but always searching for me and even writing letters and you know trying to trying to find and me whereas ahead a small inkling of her but not real memories and then sorry go ahead. Well I mean obviously obviously we want to talk about about her and your family. But I'm interested in how you feel about your adoptive parents now now at this point. Is this a family show. I I changed my name. You know it was the fact that you know Sonya literally wrote letters to My parents when I was like they started receiving them when I was like fourteen fifteen and just ripped them up. They didn't want me have anything to do with my indigenous family. They didn't want they really felt like Native people were the dregs of society. And that I would be. I would almost almost insulting them by returning to the community then not living you know the lifestyle that they were providing for me it was like a slap in the face so there is a bit of narcissism in some way about kind of cultural narcissism. That kept them. Did they think it was the best thing for you. Yes but that was the the thing with the aim program it was better for all of us right and this is why the social workers took us is because of poverty issues so Disa- matter what your culture is the beauty or strength of it. You know you don't have running water. We're taking your kids really. It was an and the thing. Is that if the government shoves US until these tiny little reservations and makes us live. There doesn't give us clean water or housing or anything and then takes her children later on because because of the poverty that they put listen. It's like a double edged sword. Sarobi sort of getting screwed so that was the policy and this is why in Canada Carolyn Bennett was like Nick. And she's like indigenous services like the woman who speaks for us you're making a incredulous face. Yes air quotes. It's Indian Indian affairs. Right they used to call Indian affairs and Aboriginal Services. Now it's indigenous services and and she's the Queen of it Ray. She's the one who speaks for us and and she decided to give like a hundred five million dollars for the sixties scoop see after like sign up and you get anywhere between twenty five and fifty thousand in dollars for being part of the sixty scoop which it's like three dollars a day for having your whole culture taken away and all your family and all your everything so on top of the five dollars a day for having yeah no more land. He's got my five dollars back. Okay I got it back. The the sixties scoop refers to this aim period where they were adopting out literally scooping the kids out of the community and putting them into white families and they didn't and the United States as well so it was pretty much Across the board so Canadian families Or Canadian indigenous kids that had social workers found links to the United States. Got Anywhere between five five thousand and twenty thousand dollars per child. So there's a huge like there's a cult Dolan from our embrace by Ernie cray and Susanville. And it says that you could actually Ashley fill up the entire city of Seattle with all the indigenous kids from Canada that were sent to the states. Jesus I didn't make it up man knowing and you know I'm I'm uh-huh As as often happens just kind of a little shocked in my own ignorance. Because that's not I mean certainly that phrase sixty scoop is nothing. I'd heard before nothing. I was particularly aware of As as a as a United States phenomenon now the government doesn't want to brag about about what they did right. It's bad stain on their face. And they don't WanNa Lake. Oh we were really horrible here Montreal. There was the sky used to put smallpox pox and blankets and They just changed the street. Sign like that was likely named a street after him and They just changed it to like an indigenous indigence name but most people don't really get that this was the guy that started chemical warfare against indigenous people. It's you people that like killed. Indians Indians were like put on platform. Yea Literally on a platform wig as Johnny McDonald he was. I WanNa start residential schools right. He did all kinds of stuff and they're here in Montreal he always gets you know paint thrown at him and like on a weekly basis. Almost like people are always different camps of detractors. Wasn't wasn't an Indian on the shortlist usual suspects So the sixties scoop was essentially residential schools in a new form. It's just way of kind of dispersing. And erasing yeah. It was different because residential schools. At least you know who your parents were and what your community was and he got to go back in the summertime. Where a sixty scoop your identity is erased and all your treaty culture everything and you just sort of become like? I was expected to be nice. Jewish girl didn't work out so I still think I might be. I don't know I noticed you dropped Shalom in your email. You can still you know as you go through there you had to also talked about. You're bullying your grandmother other as someone who stood out for kind of kindness and general belief in support in you But yeah what is I mean when you when you took back your name and and got rid of your adoptive name like what else. What else did you leave behind or are there things that just kind of stick with you from having had this kind of dual childhood? So it's a lot questions which is a lot of questions. How Jewish are you? Jewish mine where you put that in your in yourself and your identity thing what is that look. I'm not a practicing Jew so people come over for Russia's Shawna and I don't really WANNA go didn't like it when it was a teenager had to sit through like you know all these you know these things. I have a definite appreciation for the Jewish culture for sure it's all I know what I grew up in. It's who I am can't pretend that I'm not it other native people and they're like you're so Jewish unlike cannot bed ahead can alter it but then I made Jewish people. They're like you're not one of US really know. I never get that you know and also like at this point you know I mean when I walk around like a Christmas tree is something very native on me in case you didn't get it. I am indigenous my purse or something a putting my hair. I mean. Try to be as Obvious that I'm not an actual pride that started despite your parent's best efforts that started when you were a kid. You said you were putting on jeans just because it had like a buffalo logo or got Cherokee so so somehow like how did that stick. Was it just this residual from your memories or was later on you would end up going to school. Who'll with Mohawk? which was your first leg alive? Yeah Yeah how did that evolve for you like you know. It's funny because I think that I had a lot of trauma in the first two years of my life before I was adopted and For whatever reason my mind sort of protects minute doesn't give me all all the Doesn't release all the memories. But I have some I have a couple. But there's something about the cultural pride that was always there and then being adopted it's almost like a fight because you know there was a time when I dyed my hair blonde because I didn't want to be recognized as native but when I heard the misconceptions about indigenous people you know and how we were like the open associate the book talks about you know the highest death rate and suicide aside rate and I can never really see myself as a recognize myself as the statistics. I knew that there was something that I was something more than just as the number on a piece of paper. So I guess just it's something that's sort of in my DNA right and I will always gravitate towards things that had any internist logo or or the buffalo or Music or seeing being someone on TV. I mean you barely saw that except for the cowboys in Indian movies by you know. There's a show called the beach commerce and there was a native guy named Jesse like Oh oh my God and use beautiful people but when I went to the school you know and already hearing about sort of not so great stories bad digits people and then this bus awesome gonNA walk which show up. All these Mohawk kids will come out and they were like Puta form. They had a really interesting Accent and They knew you their language and their culture is like a sponge town everything. Even though I was cre- I'm like tell me everything and it's always been the culture that I'm closest too because is in proximity so I've gone to ceremonies. And they've been to the longhouses went to the powwows there. I really sort of became kind of like a born again Indian again also. That movie dances. Servewell's that just threw me over the edge. That was it. What Edge? Well I mean I was sort of like I don't know I don't know I don't know if I belong in the white world and I should just you know try to get my Indian status and just not fight for my rights and just absorb into society or should I try to learn more about my culture and because does dances with wolves it's about like plains Indians and that's what I am and I saw it and I saw the you know the film which allowed needed people don't like because it's almost like we're the house. The film rate Kevin Costner's like the the the leader whatever but anyway very succinct movie review but okay but just the way that indigenous people got along with each other and had like different roles in society respected one another and then when I was is like twenty two. I started working in native films that worked in a film called squander when I found the exact same thing like the native people were so warm and when I explained to the most part of the sixties this coupon adopted instead of them saying. Oh you're one of those there were like we've been looking for kids like you. You know so I felt like an instant like welcoming and and once I was welcome and I was like okay. What can I do now? Also there was this I went up this Mohawk Guy. When I was in my twenties and his grandmother mother was married to acts early and she was the one who changed bill C thirty one so she in the Indian Act? If you're an indigenous woman who Mary's a white man you lose Indian status like that at all your children lose their Indian status but if you're a native man who marries a white woman she becomes an instant Indian and solar white kids so Mary to X.. Early married this. You know this. This Irish guy left. The community went to New York City. He he passed away. He comes back to gonNA walk in there. Like I'm sorry but according to the Indian Act you're not allowed back here get out. She's like what but I see my neighbors all married to white women and they can all stay and that's not fair to harass. Your community had done to her. Yes that's what her own community a lot of communities that really followed the Indianapolis it crazy. But after twenty years she finally went to the U. N. and they recognize that what they're doing is discriminatory and the UN. Turn into Canada and was like Canada. Really this is what you're doing. They're like Oh yeah okay so bill. C Thirty one was she was able to re get hurt status reinstated and in for her children and for everyone else anyways all to say I met her. When I was in my twenties I was dating her grandson married too early? And I'd know what I want to do with my life. I just started having that indigenous private. I'm like what am I going to do. And when I realized that she was like in her in her sixties when she started this fight like she was not a a young woman woman as like. Okay a mental and she was my role model so everything that I do. I try to make as most impacted. I can for that next generation. So Oh yeah that's much. No there's a lot to. There's a lot to say. And I imagine one of the one of the sort of cruelties cruelties of of choosing activism. In this field is that you're not running short of targets right and even when people feel like there's been progress made and I'm sure that again that kind of self congratulatory stance of progressive kind of white society is like. Hey we're so much better than we were. But but there's got to be so much to do still in so many. Like misconceptions unpack and so much bullshit to deal with like activism on indigenous engine issues feels like a bottomless opportunity. So I try to. I try to think small. I think just about the impact ax here in Montreal. Because I live here so I can't like go to at Scott and get them clean water sometime. Maybe I can't right. I mean it's not so hard to do that I don't. They can't do that but anyway but I try to focus on what is happening here in Montreal and how it's affecting so because they run the native woman shelter and because of all the different systemic issue the women come in with. I have to try to start a target each and every one of them so that I guess the reason why you didn't go back to Saskatchewan Wander. Manitoba was because you had then formed this this affinity in this kind of closeness with the with the Mohawk community in the culture. Here JOE IS Y Y state here and fight this fight because once I got you know all right all over the place as but my it was my bubby that helped me get my Indian status back is my bubble helped me reunite with my family. So that's when I met Sonya and my mother are and a couple of brothers and all what what what was involved in that. How how difficult was it or was it? Just a matter of saying you know. Your parents have been ripping up a lot of letters. Let's go find them. Yeah a little mostly that you know and it was actually other relatives. That helped me figure that out because as like Ma. I'm originally Margaret Murray. And My sister Sonia Murray and we were part of John Murray's estate he married my mother. Janet Murray and My parents had been receiving notifications that I was going to receive something from his estate when I turned twenty one for whatever reasons he got when she was eighteen but when she got it she started to know she saw my name on the list. She's like there she is and she called the The Trust Company and said I need to get in touch with her. And they're like well. We can't give your address but if you give us a letter will mail it to her. And that's what she was doing. She was writing all these letters to me and my parents were freaking out there like. Oh my God rip them up. And don't we're not going to tell them and they literally told me that John Murray was just a business partner of my fathers and I needed to sign these papers and I needed to sign the money over to them. I was like well. You never gave me anything left home at eighteen with nothing. I'm like all of a sudden I'm going to get money sure. I don't expect my parents is to light me and because of that lie. We don't really talk to each other anymore. There's really no point in it but that story just seemed like it just flipped lipped. 'cause you know whatever good intentions might have been animating their regional intent. This is now this is deeply fucked up. Really sorry to hear that. That's like that's hard to imagine what that must have been viewed realize that they're just building this entire cocoon around your own personal life. Yeah but the good thing was that I found my sister so the thing was that I was super close with my bubby and she always expected that I would do. Great things and I wasn't sure it was really sort blake walking the edge. They're not sure you know whether or not I was going to become a must you know like a drug attic and a prostitute. The my parents used to tell me I was going went to be indigenous or if I was going to you know just marry into White Society and I don. I didn't know where I was going. But she got cancer. Sir My baby and she was like the best closest person that just gave me one hundred percent. Unconditional of. She said That she knew she had cancer and she was afraid that when she died I would have nobody so she is like we need to help you find your way home so she was the one who when I got all those papers from the the estate at had addresses of all my siblings and I wrote letters to all of them explaining who I was and one of the siblings remembered me so that's how I was able to get back and then my My Buddy sent me gave me a a plane ticket and said go and that's when I got reunited with my family the and that kind of changed everything because then the relationship that I had with Sonya in a way it kind of not replaced. But the unconditional love. I had from my bubby them from Sonia so from the time that we until she died we Clinton went on this path together. We were going to share about stories and about who we are. And uh-huh the difficulties that faced indigenous people specially through the sixties scoop the impacts and She was always like my biggest fighter like literally when I met her. She said to me you know it took a lot of beatings for you. When you're a child I was like thank you like? They don't even know how to respond into that. But that is that is the reality And it was the role that she had always lived here. She was always my protector and she became my protector afterwards. So even though I needed to stay in Montreal because of the sixties scoop. They're all those that. Were still on the streets that are part of the sixties scoop. I'm like how come I'm working and I'm able to you know find my path when I see everyone else you know. They see like eighty five percent of People from the sixties scoop like the relationship failed and people ended up on the streets in jails or dying right. And I'm like how come I'm one of those people that I'm able to sort of move forward through all these. It's all these hardship five percent. Yeah that's astonishing like all the Jewish Indians that I know there's like three of us. That are okay the rest of them. Mr Still struggling you know. So I just felt like okay. Well you know I don't have. I don't know how long I have on this earth you know Mary to X.. Early was one of my a a role models meeting my sister. We were sort of like on the on on a mission to educate so. That's what we started to do. And then I was able able to create programs to help indigenous people that are on the streets so that they could also find their way because no one was doing it for them. If you wait for the government to do it never going to happen so using my education and you know I'm working at the Shelter Now twenty years so it doesn't just happen overnight. It's you know it's a lot of all. She's he's at the door again. I'll just give her the money already WanNa talk to her anymore. You know but that's on your was a part of that part with that process for you to learn like what the needs are and what it looks like from the other side or well. Not Necessarily Sonya was more of my cheerleader. You were my sort of You know when we talk about intergenerational trauma for whatever reason I just decided from like you know my mid twenties that I wasn't going to be like another statistic in terms of I'm talking to drink alcohol knock and do drugs. I'm not GonNa do any of these things but my sister emulated my mother's behavior and ended up losing her kids not losing. She gave them away but she knew that she can handle them that she partied a lot that she did the exact same behavior. But by the time we started to meat. You know Over the years she she. She had the intention of changing her way but because of addiction. It's it's much much harder so We were always trying to share our stories and and every time I came up with like a an initiative. Should've she would back me one hundred percent so she was that support person and I didn't have any other support person like this whole frigging world ahead. No one except for her. So that's where she would was to me and I was just trying to. You know live in Montreal and make sure that there were Better working relationships with youth protection better work relationships with the police with homelessness. Just like everything that I saw that when the women come through the doors of the native women's shelter they were facing that we could try to make it easier for them. So one of the things that you had said about Your sister stor was that she was the one who remembered you know through her age difference and also maybe just who she was and that was for you felt like one of the one of the things that made it impossible for her to to be do you. I mean I don't know. What do you feel about the path that her life took in? And who who do you call to account for that. Well I think that you know intergenerational trauma is really it's a bitch right so She throughout her whole life. I've dealt with Enormous amount of depression and suicide. ID and was actually in Like different hospitals or institutions institutions for awhile throughout her life I think that finding finding me for whatever reason sort of lifted her but when we found rose my sister in Austria that just brought her way down it released a whole group of memories that I guess she she had been stifling. I think the sixties scoop that the announcement that people would start getting money also was a real hardship for her because the government decided that you could only get monies from the sixties scoop if you were adopted but the sixties scoop also had a huge group of people that were in foster care you're but the criteria was adoption. She wasn't adopted and she had an absolutely horrific life. So I actually have survivor's guilt and uh-huh and the fact that that by this Fiat she was not recognized. Her pain wasn't recognized but yours was So it's and then finding your sister rose was it just the Act of remembering and having to kind of go through and rehash all those things again. Yeah because in the Sonya lost me when she was six and then she lost rose when she was ten so she is like why does everybody Leva. So and then she found it really difficult to have children and relate to them properly so she didn't know how to she didn't when you don't have role models for like a healthy behavior. It's hard and Chin. Have that so she also did let my mother had done and then felt an enormous amount of guilt. I mean she told her daughter Sara because when Sarah would like yellowed her when she was an adult and say you know why did you send me away. She said to her and she super brave she is like if I would have kept you would have killed you like. There's so much rage in her so I think that rage bubbles up I think the the way the government decides who's eligible double and who's not eligible was a slap in the face to her at the time she Didn't have a job and even though she was she had enormous amount of work experience. You know she was like cleaning houses for a living and when she found out she can get the money she just decided that was it and she did this really kind of hard thing where she was like. She sent me this video and the video was like well if you receive this video because I'm dead left me like this ten minute video And in the video she said at the end you know what I want you to do is to tell people about how are experience what it's like to be part of the sixties scoop how it screws everybody up how it's like you need to use your voice and os thinking. Well I don't want to. He's my voice. I'd rather just have us my sister lick and then I spent two days trying to Negotiate because after she sent it she didn't actually kill herself. So we wrote back and forth. And you know I called her children and I was like call you know. Call an ambulance like do something. Because I can't physically be in Winnipeg Talpur and then I was trying to give her all kinds of tools and then she sent him a text saying. I love you on Monday night and I almost wrote. Don't do anything stupid but she decided that she didn't want to be here anymore. So that was That was really hard and I did. Share the story because I felt that was heard last wish and I should honor her wish and I I met with a reporter Ainsley from CBC and I wanted Sonia to look really strong in the story so I made sure she did a lot of research on her but also research sixty scoop and also to look more the stomach issue of currently. What's happening now? What happened at the sixties scoop and what is happening now in? How is it different different and to almost like open? The sort of the floodgates of what is really going on so to have something proactive in the story and not just my sister as another suicide. You know sort of Statistic talked about Cialis in the statistics on the great. We got another one. Yeah I'm really. I'm sorry for that story especially not just obviously for having lost your sister that way but you know the the kind of weight that that puts on you you you do what you've been doing which is to tell that story and and that's got to be an incredibly really difficult thing. I saw the documentary. This kind of mini doc about it. One thing that struck me about that piece was that at the end. They had add a title screen about where to get resources for suicide. But it doesn't I don't know I mean I kind of feel this way. Something in some some ways about Tony Story twos is just like it's not it's not just a suicide prevention fable you know and and for for you. It's like her story is so tied into the the politics of what happened and the destruction of the families and it just seemed seen it seems sort of half half way there to to have a title screen about suicide prevention but not have any call to action about what to do about you know indigenous families and issues and the things that you actually work on in your daily life is an excellent point. You know it's funny because the CBC reporter. She ended up winning two awards for that sticker. Awards away I mean it. It's beautiful we'll have a link to it in the show. It's it's affecting. It's moving but it feels. It feels like that's half the that's half the remedy. Well the good thing is that when she wrote the article also oh she had another one about youth protection right now and that the children that are currently in care not allowed to speak their language that is still yes and and because of her story. The Human Rights Commission is doing an investigation into that. So I'm happy about that. There is something proactive But yes that's what I said about the sixties it's like residential school. You weren't allowed to speak your language. Sixty scoop ended but our kids are apprehended at an alarming rate. And we're still not allowed to have any cultural pride or for speak the language and there are the stupid excuses youth protection would give as like whatever they're talking about suicide. Well then you get a frigging interpreter to come in to listen to what they're saying if that's what you're afraid of. Don't tell them they can't speak their language fucking dim Perspective on what the language can do and what it would be used for really. That's shocking. I mean I guess. That's that's part of the the thing that I'll I'll be weary for you since you don't seem to have that gear but just even even the parts when you were talking in one of the talks you gave about just understanding how indigenous people look at respond to police because of their history. You realize like once you stop the current crimes against these communities in the you know the policies that her so discriminatory just realizing how much you're going to have to unpack over the generations to to get rid of all of these. You know all of these kind of ongoing reasons why they are not fitting well into society as it's put now and CBC just came out this story last week about the fact that actually was all the newspapers that they had an independent person. Look into how Montreal Police Treat Racial Oh profiling or or address it or whatever you WANNA call it. And they said eleven indigenous women are eleven times more likely to be racial profiled than any other culture selleck. Yeah Okay I knew that but yeah. Somebody's putting a number or Voicu. Yeah but but eleven times more likely. So it's almost sometimes you're happy to have the number there and then you're also like damn it's like two steps forward one step back you know and I have you know. I signed an agreement with the police in two thousand fifteen saying we're going to have a better working relationship and it's an uphill battle you know and they ended up saying that there is no racial profiling the SP VM. Until this independent person was like Yeah actually there's a lot of it and you need to do better and now they're saying okay. Well yeah in in March will do something march like. It's what it's like free season on indigenous people until March. What are you talking about right? So I'm often a critic about about the police. I'm often a critic about you know like I tell it like it is. I'm not gonNA pretend that you know youth protection is doing a better job or the police are doing a better job like it is exactly what it is and people need to know and I need to address it every chance that I get otherwise like what's the point. What's the point of all of this? What's the point point of being adopted and put into this family and taken away from you know my indigenous family and losing my sister? If I can't try to make it better kind of feel like I'm still on that mission. And you know Sonya watches from above and or below it but we're on the twelfth floor Sitel so who knows so so tell me about speaking of that mission like what what is Cabinet Square. And what does it mean to a population. That doesn't have an urban reserve as you see here in Montreal. Okay well sometimes they sit in these meetings you know. I'm an executive director now for sixteen seventeen years at the native woman's shelter. I can vote to alert of meetings and one of these meetings. I went to said that they're revitalizing the area that they're putting a Bali's brand new con- condos and that the population that's currently in the park. Doc is a deterrent and that We need to find a new solution. And I'm the only indigenous person at this meeting and they're like we're going to put the indigenous people in a parking lot where the old Merida's hair was which is sort of like a store that has art supplies and I was like really so I went back and I spoke to this wonderful Brilliant woman named Vivian Carly who's non-indigenous but she's a genius and together we worked with the Justice Asks Committee and we created a different plan which would be keep. The people in the park have support services in the park and eventually we did the cultural activities. I'm not took almost six years to get off the ground because the city was like well. It's too expensive and I don't know if it's GonNa work and may need to do a study so we eventually did a study to six months and basically it said higher outreach workers and I'm like mandatory this longtime ago probably pay them using the money that you spent on that story to start with. Yeah no they paid for it. We Got Indian affairs and a secretary locked in the city. They all through and money together. But how big is the population and Covet Square. Oh God I I don't know if people come in and out all day long right so it's hard to say but there is a large population of indigenous. People consented and it's the center. I mean if of the community the thing is that dude children's hospital so the light of the families that don't have Hospitals in the community that have to fly out to Montreal would hang around that area because they were you know maybe having a cigarette break or I don't know what right but they would just kind of hang out in that area. But if I ever want to meet anyone indigenous I know I can go there and see a familiar face so it just sort of became kind of like an urban centre her for Indigenous People for you know twenty thirty years now so it's just that people that were moving into these really expensive condos WANNA see how those faces when they came I and also a lot of the people that are there there because there's nowhere else for them to go and and you know there's there's a bit of a well right now there's A. There's a big crisis traces at the park but there was. It's always been a place where I don't know it's hard to say it depends on. Ah The actual person who they meet. So if they bump into someone WHO's a Predator they're going to become victimized and they're going to be you know not really in a very good place and sometimes people go through just to kind of visit friends or relatives so it's really hard to sort of say who's there so is different But there was obviously a problem so eventually through Getting funding to city Montreal. We created the CABOT Square project. Where we had to outreach? Each workers that are in the park and six years ago. I asked to have a mediator. which is someone who would be at the park that if anyone was completely completely under the influence or if there are any physical fights that they would step in and help those people to the appropriate service as opposed to getting arrested? Because that's what happens. Please come by the arrest and rest arrest and everyone has gone right so the mediators just came in the summer because now there we used to be A shelter called the open door that was in the area for. I don't know a probably about thirty years or something like that. And it closed and all the essential services that they gave were gone and then there were fourteen deaths in the last I guess since December fourteen deaths number and most of them indigenous people chooses so I have been very vocal about wanting to do something about got it and one of the things that I did was Speak to reporter named Christopher Curtis who started to do series of stories on it and we were able to get meteors mediators almost because of the public shame of it. Not because of we really think we want to help. The people sounds like ooh. Oh you made a public darn better give you some money now so they did. Thank you very much bill mobile. But that's the price for Tertius. Yeah and the thing is that they hired one mediator and then they needed another one and now I have three of them because the crisis is so bad and it is a mandate. It's not what we need. We need someplace where they can sleep. Something a place where they can eat and a place that's open on weekends and a place that you know is open in the evenings and there's nothing so we're gonNA open something next month right so this this podcast will come. After you make the announcement I know it's embargoed so far In bartered embargoed. Like bargo you're not talking about it about it if I'm not talking about it this this this comes from your the PR man. David I use that word very very loosely. There but what what. What is this project that it That you're going to open up and how how how it changed. What's going on there a thing is that you know? I mean because David Chapman. I have worked in collaboration for the last five or six years. And when we realized that this east-central service was missing in the area and we sat down together and kind of visioned what we could create. That would help. The people didn't want to be abandoned. We wanted to be something more if you think of like a spa and the kind of people that go oh to spas. Why don't we create something for the homeless? That's like a wellness center where they can come in and be treated with dignity and receive the You know maslow's needs like food and sleep but also the have specialized staff there that you know have a background in addictions in sexual assault psychologists. You know kind of like a one stop shop where everywhere else in Montreal you are barred from but here you can walk through and we will welcome you and being on. The streets is incredibly difficult and after year after years of being on the streets. It makes you resilient so. We're calling it resilience Montreal because we're honoring about resilience and I've been working with the city and I have been chasing funders and I literally wrote a letter to secretary fell hooked up on. Which is the French division of of Indian affairs here and this is their portfolio and I wrote a very strong letter saying these are the people you're supposed to be helping? This is what we are offering. Can you fund us and the money is coming in. So it's this is how it's going to be a reality it's happened. Yeah I'M GONNA be working with Nazareth community. So another woman. That runs is sort of a homeless Homeless or a second stage housing for men in one for women and The city of Montreal and I got some private funders and secretary of Defense turn a couple of other people and We're going to build something really great for the time being until we need to find another location but I'm helping it's almost like a startup for me to put it together. I'M GONNA go back to the shelter. I'm GonNa make sure that the right people are running. I'm going to meet with them on a monthly basis. Make sure that things are going smoothly as possible and then eventually you know will have her own governance and create a board of directors and. It'll continue but it's something needs to happen needs to happen now and actually should have happened months ago. You can't wait on some of these things like like authorities. Might it might want so in the in the spirit of of Taking it into that kind of extra step of actually helping being part of the solution is there. You know what what can listeners do is you know where should they put their energy or their resources. How can people get involved? Well I mean I know this is this is very broad right. I mean this goes all around the country so I mean if people are interested in helping. What's happening in Montreal? Then look up the organizations that are doing the work we're always Underfunded but wherever y'all are you know I would Help your community organizations as well and if you see someone that's on the street st see them as resilient and instead of walking by them and ignoring them not giving them I contact say hello. Offer them food. You don't have to give the money. Give them like a cup of coffee or food or if you know of resources offer them in the area because nobody wakes up one morning and says oh I think I'm it'd be homeless today. It's something I've always wanted to be lick people who are on the streets. There's a reason there's a history there And I think you need to be kind and I noticed that when I am kind to someone on the street because sometimes I walk through the through the water area and I see people that I know and I'll stop op and all I'll go to McDonalds and I'll get him something to eat and I'll have a conversation with them and then someone else will follow will show up who I don't know and do the same thing and it's almost like a learned behavior. If you treat people nicely other people do it. If you ignore people everyone will ignore. We need to stop ignoring. All of that is just just easy. And free and Is Sort of basic good person. One on one but worth the worth worth remembering and being reminded ended of. I can't thank you enough for going through the hard work of of Doing what Sonya asks you to do and and doing the work you do and especially for talking to me on On Indigenous Peoples Day in the United States said. Thank you so much the trip. From Luminary Media and Rosen Kingdoms is hosted by me Nathan Thornburgh. Alexa van sickle is our producer music by Dan. The automated illustrations by daisy show. Artwork by Adele Rodriguez executive producers are and Mack Goulding also of roads and kingdoms this. Next week it's Kasahda with one of the world's premier interpreters of Freddie Mercury's singing and stage presence. He's a Montreal all native. He is a big star in Europe in particular and I have an unusual and longstanding connection to his life and career singer Janis the tillman the the in Montreal. We will meet you there. Thanks for listening to this episode and remember you can hear all episodes of the trip by signing up for luminary premium right now a special limited time holiday offer of of three ninety nine a month for a full year and you can cancel it anytime just go to luminary podcasts. Dot Com for more information available only in the US issue K.. Canada and Australia pricing subject to local currency offer expires December fourth. Two Thousand Nineteen terms apply.

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Episode 86: Rest Easy, Shokunin

The Trip

40:51 min | 4 months ago

Episode 86: Rest Easy, Shokunin

"Sometime over the last week after seven o'clock cowbells and air horns and and clapping couples on their balconies. Died down each night. I started to hear a baritone echoing off the side wall of the hardware store. A block away on Broadway and ninety eight. It wasn't until Saturday evening. Though when I walked the dog down Broadway itself then I realized that this was no mere living room hobbyists. They were at least a dozen people properly space including a Mount Sinai ambulance crew on break. Who had come to hear this man Singh out from his little French balcony on the fifth floor of his building. You forget sometimes living up town that Broadway street is also that Broadway and so it turns out that this man as I read later is Brian. Stokes Mitchell a legend a Tony Award winning actor and singer. I don't really go to musicals and I didn't know his name but I'm fairly certain now that he must be some kind of superhero. He was diagnosed with. Corona virus is the beginning of April. Any battled through some high fevers for more than a week and the moment he was better. He flung open his windows. And every night onwards saying the man of La Mancha's attribute to his city and the people who are busy saving. The choice of musical seemed right at the moment. Corona virus has made us small and absurd. Our little homes are our kingdoms now. Many of us have lost our jobs. And maybe our careers and our carefully constructed Haute here has been at least for now laid low by elemental fears about health and survival and safety and family are the button of this global joke. You're all the dog. Oh Don Quixote and yet like the deluded nobleman here. We are still boiling declaiming and tilting future that appears to be mocking us. I've got three guests on the trip this week. There's journalists April Ju on the phone from Nairobi. Talking about her feelings. During this uneasy moment in Africa China relations. There's Brian Ashcroft an author and editor at Kotoka who who has lived in Osaka for almost twenty years on the surreal pain of losing his father in Texas while he stuck in Japan. And the I guess you'll hear from my old friend in Zion. Talk to me about the little lessons for porn team that he picked up in his time in solitary confinement as a political prisoner in Iran. This is Natan Thornburgh and from roads and kingdoms media. You are listening to the trip. The world on lockdown now. Here's Jason Resign. Let's let's start in when this first happened. I thought about you and thought okay. Well here's a guy who knows something about solitary Confinement and then I was like. Oh that's a terrible thing to think this is so different than what chasing had gone through and then I saw that she wrote this thing about some similarities and did that video for the Washington Post so first question M. I. N. Asshole for thinking of you immediately when I thought of corn teen. Well if you are not the only astle out there my solace I heard from a lot of people right off the bat and I was kind of like You know friends locally and then old friends that I've gone to grade school with back in the bay then people from around the world and I thought to myself you know I should probably address this sooner rather than later. I thought the video had had a couple really interesting points. One of them was Your admonition to be a friend to yourself and not an enemy like what is it. Define that for me. What does that look like when you're isolated? Look I mean you know. All of us have had those moments when we're particularly hard on ourselves right when you're in solitary confinement in a foreign prison The tendency to blame yourself can can kick in really quickly and blame yourself for not being able to figure out how to get out. There's so many things to be upset about And so few that you actually have real control over and I think that the underlying message every time I talked to anybody you know friend relative colleague. Who's been having trouble dealing with the last few weeks? Is You know. Take Control of the variables of this that you can actually control. And one of them is controlling the conversation in your own head right and not everybody is prone to taking that friendly. And and and loving and sometimes are cast tone with with with their own internal monologue. But you're going to be better off if you're able to figure out how to do that and for me that was a key to surviving that experience one seeing the absurdity of situation that. I was in to recognizing that There was absolutely nothing that I had done to to create this situation other than being in the country that I was in and and three knowing that I didn't have control over that particular outcome of when I was going to get out so you just kind of stealing your safe still yourself brace yourself for the long haul And you know it's like it's like going on a trip with somebody right you and I have been on lots of trips together. Not yet but you have both been trip. We've been on trips together with other people and you know that really colors. The the the experience who that person is how they deal with with obstacles and challenges right now a lot of people or their own their own travel travel companion. How much of these good things that you might have learned about yourself in about a handle how to handle your shit? How much should it stay with you? And how much just evaporated that moment. You kissed. The tarmac. In Germany or whatnot evaporates but it operates slowly and you know I tried to make it a really conscious thing with myself to to try to invoke that as much as possible. I'm always now the person that when somebody close to me is complaining about circumstances will tell you it could be a lot worse right and and even even for me while I was in prison. I mean I you know. I had this cellmate from Azerbaijan. Right. It was the two of us together for thirteen months. We didn't have anybody else and I looked at this guy Who you know is like a brother to me now. I haven't seen them since we were released. But we communicate and have a really kind of Good and loving relationship based on this. This shared experience we had. I'm going to look across the cell and think to myself. What has really shooting plays he. He's not getting visit from his wife. His wife lives a thousand miles away. He can't communicate with the guards. He doesn't speak Persian. You Know He. There's a thousand. He doesn't know anything about this country. I've I've lived in this country for five years and understand the norms and the bureaucracy and all this other stuff and then you kind of you kind of think out in extremes and think about what's going on in the rest of the prison and the type of abuse that people are enduring from their their tormenters was saved from because my case took on a public high profile nature and so it was harder for them to fuck with me. But you know there's always literally there's only one person out there in all seven or eight of us that's in literally the worst place and you know what that person is you. It's not me right. So that's that's the littlest thing. We can be hopeful for thankful for it now. This isn't a contest but we know we wouldn't be winning that one now and I I also saw you reading list recommendation. Which you know. It's funny. There's a lot of Animal crossing and a lot of You know sort of Easy SUPERFICIAL DELIGHTS. People are gravitating towards you. You went straight for Salts Niche and. Yeah I mean. I think you're Yankee was able after. She was released to bring me some books. And the first Care package of books was whatever kind of self-help stuff she could find on the shelf Stuff I didn't know even had mid The power now right and I'm I'm telling you the power now does not work in prison. It literally says on the back like thousands of prisoners found this helpful. Not this one and you know Paulo. Coelho great the alchemist. It's a lovely book. You know you read it an hour and a half and it takes you to really happy place and then you look up and go up there. Still bars on the windows right so I wanted to tap into that. That history of injustice right. I was a tiny little speck on this thousand year. Continuum that dates back to the beginning of human history of being A little man fucked by huge forces so Gulag archipelago was a fantastic thing to read to realize. Oh Wow okay I am in In the twenty first century version of authoritarian prison. I'm really glad I wasn't in the Mid Early Twentieth Century version in the Soviet Union. 'cause that really sucked amazing all right. I'll you stock is out there. The Independent Bookstores. Solzenitsyn goes in the self help I would. I would really recommend that. Is this book No friend but the mountains by a guy named Beirut Johnny who was on Iranian refugee Who was trying to get to Australia? And whose vote was taken and And they were taking the Mannasseh island. Which is this attention island? This guy has written this incredible account. he wrote it on his cell phone from that island published. It won Australia's biggest literary prize which ultimately led to him being released and allowed to go to to New Zealand where he is now so. I'm still on that trend of like you know when things get bad. Read about people who who are going through something or went through something worse than than what you're going through because it's really hard to to then get up and look in the mirror and feel sorry for. How is the situation in Iran right now? And what are you? I know you've been writing a little bit about that. Like what are you? What are you worried about? What what what do you want to see happen there? I think that the situation in Iran is as bad as it is anywhere and when we say that you know we have to say as bad as it is in the United States right The the government there has made choices in favor of the economy in political political expediency over The importance of public health and human lives. So they you know they were the the country that was brutally hit most quickly and I. I think we still don't have a very accurate portrait of how bad the outbreak was there. How many deaths there there were. I mean they say that officially there's about five thousand but most observers agree that it's at least twice that and now they've essentially open backup for business because with a sputtering economy that's been hammered by sanctions for so long they're not in a position as a government To you know send out twelve hundred dollars. Stimulus checks to the most vulnerable people society. So they're they're trying to figure out how to muddle through this as you know. I'm no friend of the Iranian regime But I'm also no friend of the trump administration's Iran policy Would like to be on the side of normal Iranian citizens who who consistently been screwed by the policies of their own government and the US government. I thought this was an opportunity to maybe put politics aside and save some lives and maybe the process release some innocent foreign nationals who are being audited much the same way I was But that hasn't panned out yet so I'm pretty nervous about what's happening there and what could happen there over the coming weeks and months. I just hope that the The worst case scenario predictions of more than half of the society getting the virus at some point and the potential for a couple of million deaths. Don't don't yeah I think you've been clearly misreading. The situation over here as our our own American mullah's have their own concepts of what the opportunity is right. It's unbelievable to watch. Because they're the the way that these Two governments right now mirror each other and how they deal with things. You would think they'd be fast friends. Maybe you know if they can't agree on saving lives at least we can get some sort of summit about cronyism and opportunistic geopolitical posturing propaganda propagation camp campaigns. There's a lot we have in common right now. All right. Well I'm GonNa let you get back to your many projects Yup I. I love reconnected. Whenever possible and it's just good to hear your voice your face and know that we're all getting through this we'll we'll survive but you know we got to be kind to ourselves with each other and stay the Fuck I. I met April Jew when the trip took me to Nairobi last year. My old friend. Rajiv Gandhi. Along with Joshua Baga who was the guest of episode fifty seven had brought me out for an excellent Nairobi night of Goat Burgers and gridlock. Live music and lager. Beer wanted to talk to April again this week because she writes in thinks a lot about. Kenya's relationship with China and Vice Versa. And as a Chinese American. She's got a super unique vantage point on a marriage that seems rockier than ever this week as a warning. We had some interference in the audio at points in this interview. Don't worry it's not your headphones. It's on us now. Here is April. Tell me woman the last time you went out on the streets of Nairobi So I have only been out about once a week to walk across the street to go to the grocery store and come back I went to the park one time and it was almost uncomfortable. So I've I've literally just been inside my inside my compound inside my house. Why was it uncomfortable in the park? It was just weird. You know Nairobi's kind of weird in that there are so few public spaces and this becomes like alter clear in inozyme of of pandemic under lockdown because You even at this Arboretum at this park You have to pay to get in. That's kind of our everything works in Nairobi everything's inside a compound. Everything is behind the gate. Everything is behind some one of those like Beep metal detector security like you have to go through security check before you go and the any place and you have to purchase something in order to sit down and take up space so it was a and that just really became clear one. Once I realized that there were so few places to go to because all of these malls all these restaurants everything closed down and so all we had was this Arboretum which you still have to pay a nominal fee to get into and it was just A. I think just like a strange collection of people. That aren't the normal kinds of people who were there so that was. I was a bit Lear that onto you. You have been doing reporting and obviously Living out a bit of this nexus of Africa and China. Tell me tell me just like what's the what's the brief backdrop of this beef. They're reading about so. It's obviously really really complicated. But I think we can start from the point at which most of us in the world. How perceiving it right now which is through you. Know through lockdown. Through the only window we have which is the Internet And what surfaced? I think it was about a week ago. Began surfacing where these videos on social media of and photographs of really just horrific images of Black men mostly young men who were forced to sleep outside on the streets Because they had been convicted or kicked out of certain hotels or by their landlords and of course. All of this in at least in terms of Kenya is happening within the backdrop of of of this Chinese neo-colonialist he back at home back here in Kenya So that makes it even worse. You know the fact that things are happening Here make Kenyans there is. It's this whole narrative of Chinese power in the of demographic invasion and it is a narrative that is that has you know sort of there's truth to it And it certainly employed in ways that are politically convenient but there is truth to it and there are racist instance here and and this is sort of in the minds of the Kenyan public of course makes sense that these. It's like another point. On the trendline right like in Guangzhou you have this Just horrible anti blackness being played out on Kenyans but also and other Africans and of course that fits on this trendline that these C. Which is you know. One of just utter Yeah disrespect for for Africans. Yeah and that that colonialism I guess our neo-colonialism whatever you would call it is not as not like super tucked away. I remember coming from the airport in Nairobi and the first billboard on the highway is in Chinese. And it's an advertisement for a drink. That only Chinese people can drink which is quite show. So it's just like here's something real estate for any other audience. Besides the visiting Chinese who are coming in so I guess I could I could. I could see some of that now. You are a mirror lander. But you're chinese-american and I've Had had the great privilege to go out with you in some some of the other journalists you you know you move a freely through Nairobi. Your friend all clearly so you have your own kind of base relationships and people who who get you know you but then that that experience I mean even before covert and all this crap did it feel united. -Til I duNno like Kinda. Yeah vulnerable walking on the streets in Nairobi. Or Yeah and that completely has to do with the kind of interaction we're talking about so for shallow interactions with strangers on the street I'm yeah even before krona and durgin crowed walk outside and people would call me things. And that's that's fine. That's complicated it so. Shang is a mix of Swahili and English and other ethnic languages That's sort of the shape shifting street vernacular and there's word Currently murky another essay on this called Chin Coop in Ching Kuo who originally Was just to refer to a like a a cheap made in China product Like your niche you cool. It's just a cheap phone But then eventually very recently began also to Be used towards Chinese and Chinese people And this word sort of If volved in two almost sort of convergency evolved to resemble that are racist epithets that we know from American history of Chinese migrants immigrants being called. Chinks there's like a visceral reaction I think for any Asian American who Who Hears that word? Every time I hear that like I hear that word I like my muscles twitch like my body. Here's at first. But then I think the more important question is when is an epithet in epithet? You know if it's being used to if people who are using it think they're using it to punch up that is some complicated shit To to work through all right well. Let's think about you know 'cause obviously unpacking. The bad is one part. But what can we do to get pass it? I mean you had talked about. You would talk to. You told me about like these. We trek groups in Guangzhou that we're in solidarity with Africans like. Where's where's the good news here? So the good news. The antidote to all of the flattening that nationalism and racism and the ways in which the Internet works just groups threat and all of that the antidote to that I think as a trite as it is is really just higher resolution. Like you need the opposite. Actually I'd written in my essays at the opposite to sign a phobia is not sign. Afia it is nuance like what drives fears of other groups of people and And things like that. And this is by the way sort of separate to that conversation of of anti-black like this does not justify that anyway but the way in which to To move forward is to just you know look in higher resolution. What are people doing on the ground? what are people who are perceived to be part of this group. You know that I've been in. We chat groups with Chinese people in Guangzhou mostly young people who are actively organizing to get To to be able to find housing for Africans To be who have been addicted to get food and supplies to them Even counseling. There's just they put up about the same I think in similarly to what we've seen a lot of mutual aid groups that are sort of popping up everywhere around the world It's a solidarity group. That's like okay. This is happening. How can we help these people? Yeah it's it's Those those little Bombie does of love. That's that's what's GonNa win the opposite of here. Well thank you for talking to me April and stay healthy. Stay safe stay indoors. Stay out of that weird. Paid a play park across the street. That's all I can. Yeah Best of luck in this quarantine. Thank you thank you you too stay sane. Dallas Native Brian Ashcroft chased a childhood obsession with Nintendo all the way to a full life and Japan. He has been a contributing editor at wired and CO TACO is raising a family since so most two decades in Osaka and is in general one of my favourite explainers and translators of Japanese craft and culture. This shit though. The Corona virus has brought some very difficult choices to the kind of by continental life that he worked so hard to build for himself. Here's Brian on. What has been a terrible year? So all right so. Tell me what is happening in. Osaka. I kind of felt like did it. Through through most of March I felt like I was living in outer space. You know what I mean By people were going out to the part you know I would look outside my window and there's all the kids who are supposed to be home from school playing outside together together Rian so recreating the school playground experience right house just like a petri break downstairs and so it was kind of like what are what are their parents thinking. You know like the kids. It's not like this vacation. You know like like get the kids home. Give them something to do. You know So that was like really deeply frustrating and so when they kept in you know for for a lot of this the government was still moving full steam ahead with the Olympics. We're going to have the Olympics. The Olympics are and you know you just you're looking at what's happening around the world. It's like you know thankfully during that period of time Japan was doing well. But it's like who's GonNa come. You know who's going to. Who's going to get on an everyday Japanese right right? This is like this is a ploy for the country to win gold medals. Obviously kidding but but like who's GonNa come who's GonNa get on an airplane and comes come here and like what athletes are. GonNa Kinda put themselves in that at kind of risk and then what had happened was there's a a really really famous comedian Whose name was Shimomura Ken. I'll put Lincoln to This video of him as an English teacher. Remember that's get scanned. I think it got it got bounced around a lot. You might have shared it also. I don't know After he died. But it's It's one of the great Japanese English DJ English. Bits of sketch comedy. So yeah and he. He was a really great comedian. And the thing that's for example that one skit in particular what makes it. So remarkable is that he has a room full of foreigners and he who speaks batting is trying to teach them English and then they'll pronounced something correctly and then he corrects it with bad pronunciation and what what makes that skit works so well on a comedic level he could have done like really cheap jokes about at the expense of all the foreigners in the room. But it's all jokes his own expense and all and it's just really really smart bit of comedy and so when he got sick and then he. He died very quickly. After I felt like kind of everything changed a lot of people. Well you've got half your family. Now's in Dallas. Half is in Asako. Where where would you rather be waiting? So yeah so yeah so the kind of the you know. I would rather be in Dallas just just to be with my wife and my two kids and not not okay. Not where? I'd rather everyone be altogether. Do you know what I mean like this like wherever we could be. You know it could be that that Arctic thing. You know wherever as long as as long as we're altogether and yeah and so that's been that's been really the hardest thing which is made This year I was. I was really excited about this year and I thought this year is going to be really great year. You know like a new book coming out. I was really excited and then it just quickly has just turned awful and has gotten awful like more and more awful as as the months of gone on and so you know so my wife's there and the other two kids are there and so when day kind of closed down that quick you know I felt like a sense of relief and the you know. The Mayor of Dallas was super transparent about stuff and they would give these regular updates on how many hospital beds they have. How many ventilators you know it. Just super transparent all the information in very communicative and so I felt a sense of relief. but you know when. I'd been in Dallas in December and then last summer. I've been there to help my parents and so you know then I you know here and were separated and then I get like the D. Worse. Call you know it's like You Know Your Dad has taken a turn for the worse and he's not responsive and so you know it's out of all the phone calls you can get that's like the worst the and then and then my mom says look you. That's not responsive and churches closed and he may not make it through the weekend and we can't bury him anyway so you need to stay where you are. And so. And she didn't want you know I have. I'm like I'm prescription medicine asthma. So she doesn't want media sick. She doesn't want my wife to get six. You start having all these conversations that it just feels. Surreal in like you're just talking. You're just you're talking in slow motion you know in you can. You're like in. Their conversations are really sad. Conversations just really frustrating and You know and so since since even obviously before this. I talked to them every single day. And we'll talk to my dad every single day and I talked to Him. The last day he had before You know he took a turn and then you know like you. It was like you know it was a good conversation. He always had a really great sense of humor. And you know US laughing at my stupid jokes and And then the next time that I talked to you know. It's like the last time and you know he's not. He's not responsive. And you know. He tried to open his eyes when he heard my voice. And so you know it's it's like you know it sucks. It just sucks you know. Facetime is a great way to say. Hello it's like a really rough way to say goodbye. You know so it really really so tell me tell me something about your dad. What What what kind of person was he In in life he worked in. He tuned pianos until he was in his early eighties. He was a piano tuner. Yeah he's a piano series of panel technician. And that's where the specificity of of knowledge and sort of exactness of your thinking comes from. I don't know I don't know but I worked very hard. You know he was like the first one in his family to go to college. You grew up in a house that didn't have a toilet in it. They didn't outhouse. You know You know he put himself through college. He worked you know steal factor in college. I mean he he just worked hard and he really. Kinda you see. Somebody work hard. And you're like I should work hard as well. You know really kind of You know you know really kind of really instill that into me and I just remember like my my whole life. So here's the thing so so I he. He was a great pianist. He was you know. Could he could rebuild pianos. He could fix them. Do all the stuff with them and he could sing. He could play the cello. And all this when I was younger and teamwork on pianos and stuff. I never quite got it. You know like he would take a part of piano action and since. I didn't play the piano obviously. I love music and stuff and I really appreciate it what he was doing and I enjoyed like I enjoyed his jazz record collection. Very much growing up But I remember like even as he got older like seeing him work like just like just taking part of piano action or like you know restringing a piano or something like that. It was just like muscle memory. You know. And he was doing it in his. He'd done it so much that he was doing it without thought. It was as natural as walking. Were breathing or all these other things and I just remember seeing you know. I lived in Japan for a period of time then and I'd written about like sharpening the craft artisan culture of Japan and kind of put that on this like kind of pedestal. When that was like at home my entire life do you know what I mean and I I never I never quite got it and then I got it. I remember like the last few years going back and just watching like just watching work. And he kind of looked up and you'd be like what life like can I help you kind of thing And just seeing him doing that and thinking you know. This is really incredible. This is this is amazing that he has talent and it kind of sucks that I can't sing in key at all but that's a that's an incredible thought of just going halfway round the world to admire this sort of deeply committed artisan culture and learning just enough about it to realize that That's what you admired about your dad. You know it had been staring me in the face the entire time you know. I never. It's not like I didn't appreciate it. I just didn't know what it was. I didn't know what it was and didn't seeing that and being like. Wow that's incredible. It's incredible it's incredible can do this. You tune without an. He didn't use a machine. He did everything by year And so like and it was like as a kid. It was annoying because like like somebody would be playing a piano on TV in. He'd be like well. That's out of tune in. You're like Bob Dylan. Who Cares? It'd be like that he would. This is must be something to be a piano tuner in a world of pianos special. I don't like I. I think it's like one of the you know it's like when you talk to. People have developed like really really refined sense of taste for coffee. And it's like you're like but it's Dunkin donuts coffee. It's good. You should like it and they're like no. I can't I can't do this. Could you do me a favor and tell me? Tell your father's name. My Dad's name was Ronald Ashcroft. Well rest easy. Show kooning Ronald Ash. That's Uh that's a hell of a story all right brother. Well I wish you well and I. I hope that you are able to reunite the family Sooner sooner rather than later and that Least we can start banking on twenty twenty one as Being something better than this. Yeah no kidding kidding. The trip from luminary media and roads and Kingdoms is hosted by me. Natan Tornberg the music by Dan. The automated episode illustration by Daisy de show artwork by Adele Rodriguez executive producers army and Mac Goulding also of roads and penguins as a reminder for the first time in a very long time we are free and available on Apple stitcher pocket. Wherever you get your podcasts. That means that your ratings and reviews me more than ever to us and I would love to see him next week. More stories from lockdown around the world. I have been getting great suggestions from everyone about future guests. Thank you keep them coming at the trip. Podcast ON INSTAGRAM or contact at roads and Kingdoms Dot Com. We will meet you there.

Nairobi Japan Iran Dallas Osaka Brian Ashcroft Africa Guangzhou Kenya Washington Post China Don Quixote contributing editor US Zion Tony Award Natan Thornburgh April Ju