2 Episode results for "Ed Benkin"
The Life and Music of the Cars' Ric Ocasek
"Hey I'm Brian Hiatt Mrs Rolling Stone Music now. I'm in the studio with David Brown and we're GONNA be talking about too big losses to the world of music. We're GONNA talk about Rick Kasich frontman of the cars incredibly successful producer generally interesting dude which is really sad loss and towards the end of the show we're going to talk about Robert Hunter who wrote all those brilliant lyrics for the grateful dead and it seems like as as far as the rock cannon were in time quite sadly when we're going to have to deal with a lot of these losses and it's a tough thing to get used to Ricco Kasic was a shock I actually I did one of his last interviews which I had no idea of course that it was any big deal at all. I I talked to him in July or so for my piece about Weezer blue album and it sucks because it was kind of a shaky cell phone connection he had been interviewed. I think too many times about the blue album so he didn't have a ton to say about it that he hadn't. I said before you know I asked him what he was up to right now and he said I'm doing a little painting just kind of hanging out and I guess he was having heart surgery right. Is that the he has some kind of surgery and I'm GONNA get some updates on the next week but yeah he was seventy five years old which I think that was one of the shocker for us and partly because he shaved five years off his age at one point early early in the cars career and so there was some initial confusion as to how old he was but an old friend of his. I talk to you for a story. That's in the works did confirm that Rick was seventy-five in Robert. Hunter was seventy eight so you're right. I mean it's getting to the point now that with Robert Enrico casick work for generations but they were actually about the same age and a lot. The generation is approaching or they're approaching eighty which is kind of a shocking thing you can shave five years off in the publicity kit but in the end you can't shave the five years. There's off unfortunately but it did. It's magic but rick was an amazing guy and I will say before we get into a story. I'll just tell my little story which I am very very thankful that I was able to. Thank him for this in my phone call. I reminded him that in. I think nineteen ninety eight I was outside the club tramps where I was covering a show by the band guided by voices for the Website Sonic net which is running for at the time and I was doing this thing that we did. We'd interview fans. We have fans what they thought of the show because it wasn't a review reporting on the show and as interesting fans rick comes out of the club and the great thing about Rick is you couldn't miss him. I mean there. He was looking exactly like in the you might think video my eyes popped into my head and I went over and you know I'm holding a notebook at possibly one thirty in the morning because it was like a late show one thirty in the morning outside tramps on a sidewalk in Manhattan and some Rando with a notebook approaches immunised is like hey rick where you know you. What'd you think of the show and instead of being like fuck off? He started talking me gave me an interview on the spot odd and he told me the show is great and somehow we got onto the fact that he had actually just signed on to produce the next guided by voices album and so he gave a random guy he met on the sidewalk doc scoop about his next production job at the time that seemed like a big deal because for all we knew maybe that would have been the album that guided by voices would that would propel them into the pop mainstream. It was not not the case so there's a couple of interesting songs album that he gave in a very generous manner so think it's revealing of a couple of things about him which is one that he was legendarily accessible like in talking to people about him. They would have stories just walking down the street with him here. Recording he loved working at Electric Lady Studios on Eighth Street here in New York City in the village which is of course place where Hendrix put up the money for and there was a grace Papaya at the time hotdog stand right across the street and he in his engineer would often just pop over there and stand in line fine and get their hotdogs and of course like you said Brian I mean everybody knew who that was. They would often ask the engineer if he was son actually but but records liquids always. He said he would sign autographs. He would talk with people he did. Tell this guy that he wore sunglasses all the time so he could check out the people and they couldn't see his eyes but that's always also really interesting of appoint in. Rick's career which lasted from the early nineties all the way into the two thousands where he basically remade his career as a producer and was making Solo Solo albums but the car's by one thousand nine hundred ten years after they broke up and he'd left that behind any more or less did except for a little reunion but he pretty much had left that behind kind of walked walked away from that and just loved producing bands not just you know easier no doubt and pop bands but guided by voices. The bad brains suicide. I mean it's a really really interesting list of bands like he had looked capital so to speak from his success and he kinda used it in that way. I think he must have lived in the West village. I know he had a Brownstone. It was new grammercy park okay yeah so he had a very easy kind of commute to the what a great life. I love when rockstars kind of figure it out and the ones who moved to Hawaii for me those those ones they really figured out but he also figured I can live in this brownstone on grammar see with my beautiful wife and then kind of maybe walk to electric lady album mm-hmm and that's my life and then tonight and instead of the Four Seasons Hotel in Boise or whatever you had this life yeah he had no interest in touring at that point hit a studio in the basement of his Brownstone as well. He loved to work at electric lady which was probably ten fifteen minute walk away. He and his wife Paulina were raising two kids yeah. You'd you'd have to worry about jumping on airplanes or playing you know oldies. Cruise ships shows with cars or whatever would have happened to them. After the hits were over he told someone back then who told tell me that he did make one of these solo records in the nineties and I think the label was sort of pressuring him to two and he was like I don't WanNa. Do that is a great point in my life that thing that messed up one of my previous marriages going on the road. I WANNA I wanNA do that again. You know kind of attitude and he had like sorta figured out how to use a success and his fame to his advantage and not let it Kinda reckon so let's take a step back. I can tell his story from the beginning. You are reporting a piece for rolling stone about his life and we've all read up a little bit. There's a wonderful John Parrella story early on about about the cars and rolling stone and it's interesting to see how many musical incarnations he went through before the cars he had his own version of of the kind of billy Joel springsteen model mellencamp model of playing in bar bands and paying your dues that way he and I think Benjamin or were kind of a duo early on right in various various incarnations they met really early and had this really rough musicians life of going from place to place without much success right right they met in Ohio ricks. I was raised in Maryland and his family moved to Ohio and that's where bin or was from and I think they kicked around a bit there in a few bands and so forth Ed Benkin Nirvana ide- which is really interesting is like the late sixties band ever recorded or anything and then wick ended up in the Boston area and he answered in ad from another mid Western musician position in gym good kind though I spoke with want to addition a singer for a covers band in the Boston area and recalled him up and the guy said Rick wasn't that impressive in that way but then additionally Rick Rick Laboratory and played some of his own songs and this guy was like Oh that's what this guy to do. He said he had a very soft lulling kind of voice or a pretty voice and sort of these acoustic songs and again not cars like at all and that led to the two of them foreign group and getting or back or getting him from Ohio to Boston and they form this Gu called milk would which was in nineteen seventy two which was very nineteen seventy-two banned yeah whatever you the listener currently imagining milk. Would the early cars band to sound like it doesn't sound like that. I guarantee you. I think we can play a little bit of Mo- quit right now. I don't know if you're ready for it but let's play some Milkman yeah see I went to be honest for the John Ritter attempting to be it's pretty good actually actually not bad rick was also a big fan back then people like Nick Drake and the fearful convention incredible string band which is interesting too because we're talking early. Seventies let people knew about Nick Drake in the early seventies where people bought import albums or read the rock press or it wasn't like nick drake posts Volkswagen commercial. You really have to know you music so yeah they had this one group milk would very TSN eagles influenced and may one record and sort of flop than the group kind of fell apart afterwards and then eventually been and rick started it playing in Duos and rick was doing solo acoustic things they had various other bans including one called captain swing which would also include Elliot Easton being the cars which it was described to me is again very different from the cars. They were off steely. Dan Comparisons I'm hearing so it was almost like they had they had their folks in to spinal tap a period or something you know with all these kind of inclinations based on anything about like nine hundred seventy two if you wanted to ban you to kind of be crosby stills. Nash Kinda Band in Nineteen Eighteen seventy five that steely Dan sound was kind of in so there was an interesting kind of maybe a finger to the wind aspect to it all basically cabin twin came to New York to to do a showcase for some big rock managers and first off when I heard they all look completely different. If you go online you can see pictures of example rick in the Ben Milkweed hit a mustache. Josh not like anything you'd expect he had not perfected his rock and roll. He glasses enough yet. If you look certain way it's easy if you're a super handsome dude you you discover your long hair and you're good and you can look rockstar. If you have a idiosyncratic love and you want to be a rock star you kind of have to figure out your thing and he hadn't figured yeah so basically I think cabins swing were roundly criticized by a lot of managers for basically not having their act together visually or musically and rick sort of wick sort of commandeered at that appoint. They got rid of a couple of members. That's when they got Greg Hawkes of the cars the keyboard plus who admit rick during the milk would days actually so and they became the cars David Robinson the drummer named them. They refined their look apparently captains being the cockpit from different bands the long hair and some of them had long hair some of them had bell bottom jeans means you know everybody look different and the car's aesthetic which was largely attributed to David Robinson Drummer as well and they made a demo which was actually played on Boston Radio but just the the original version of just willing needed got on the radio all over the place in Boston before they had a record deal and it was perfect timing seventy six seventy seven that we were just on the verge you know punk was SORTA starting early days of new wave with all that stuff was in the air and and those songs Rickwood writing was so perfect for that could be adapted to that kind of format and I think we're trying to get that demo. Oh up of just what I needed which it's one of those demos that make it clear that this was a band that had their shit figured out before they ever had a producer. It sounds very much. Just it's the perfect example. Just need a little tightening to get to the professional version says listen system. Oh the other week. Do we have that here. just like a millisecond off from Finnish version you know and actually reminds me of something that Rick told me when we were talking talking about Weezer and we were talking about the fact that he started to jump around but he told me about the fact that they use a click track on the blue album which means you're in perfect time whereas whereas on Pinkerton they throughout the click track and that's why they literally sound like an entirely different band much more wild and explosive on the good side but also much less controlled which made them mm sound much less radio friendly and it's startling how much difference just taking that one thing out can make en- Rick said well sometimes good time in other words being imperfect time with your instruments. It can be a hook in itself and I thought that was a perfect explanation for the of just what I needed which wasn't quite you know in that Demo Komo version. It's just again like a millisecond not as tight as the record version but that Chunky is so perfect and so modern when you heard it on the radio. Did that strike you. I mean again jumping ahead a little bit but when I heard the cars you heard them a little early. I was introduced by just what I needed on. MTV when you first heard him that they strike you as sort of like even though it's still the seventies here's the first band of the eighties because that's how I always imagine them yeah very much. So I mean you have to also put it in the context of what else we were hearing at the time which is like the first two Elvis Costello L. O. Records and I scoop clash albums and the cars it was a much tighter produced slick product quote unquote in that way that any of that stuff and yet it had the same. I'm kind of energy which was really interesting. It was I think an early sign of like. Oh this new sound this new sensibility music could be mainstreamed in adaptive could kind of mainline into the mainstream that you could take that and if you produce it just a little bit more it can be the new pop and that was really kind of striking at the time that first album is a light east and said of the album make it could be the greatest hits. It's one of those debut albums that is like a greatest hits. Album is perfect and I think it shows if it doesn't feel like a debut is because of what we just talked doc but they had built over years craft and had discarded somebody versions of themselves they were ready to adhere to this tight concept of a band yeah and I think all those things have gone through personally. He adapted every way like by the time the car has got a record deal he'd been through a bad record deal and you know maybe not such a great manager and so he demanded like control over the publishing and in control over who would produce the album they got. Roy Thomas Baker which was a huge thing in queens producer at the time to work with his new band and so all those stumbles that he'd come across early on actually kind of paid off and you also have to remember that by the time that I came out and he was like thirty five. which was you know that's not old but at that time it can almost understand why he wanted to share a few years off his age on his post public image because that he would have been considered? You know someone one of his friends compared to be like if you were suddenly a tennis pro thirty five. We just be considered heads unfortunately in rock music. It's altuva debut. It's in no way old on the earth but have debut album as a Rockstar who wants to be in the mainstream. It's it's old and that's why he shaved it off but I am always fascinated by the Roy Thomas Baker factor because you have this guy from a maximalist band he had produced produce the queen albums that were full of stuff and here's this ban the cars who were quite minimalist and the way that worked together is really interesting. It's sometimes it's like. There's little moments of big stacked background vocals on the first cars album that are kinda queen ask but they come by so fast so compactly that you don't think of it that way unless you really pay attention so. I think it was a really good pairing. Actually fascinating. It was queen. The sound was really dance and tightly packed sand. I think both bands had in common. Tom And you can almost see why Baker would have been kind of attracted to working with. Both these weren't wild and wooly unleashed Robbins. They were making pop records on a bigger scale. I think I think it kind of combines. Both man's unites both bands wriggled Catholic. He saw the cars in a very specific way. We were talking about this on the right over. He saw on them as a rock band doing pop songs but saw them has kind of a in a pre Gago way as sort of pop art in War Holy Incense. There were kind of making pop in quotes quotes in his mind even if the rest of the thought they were just making pop without the quotes in his mind. It was popping quotes which is really interesting. What did you learn about that kind of mindset well. It's funny. I've spoken now with the led. Greg Hawkes my story and Elliott kind of the same idea that I said well. Each of you brought something to the table obviously as a band each musician's. I mean Greg Hawkes Keyboard Hooks are like hooks the songs almost and it's not all Rick Rick wrote most of the songs and I said well you know what else did he bring he said well. It was like ironic. Pop songs veal did credit the whole sensibility of that to rick and I'm not sure yeah if everyone else was totally as plugged into that concept has recovered and just kind of loved playing these tunes and arranging uh-huh what's the classic sort of Piton set up where as he would describe it like the Caveman and the rest of the band had no idea what he was doing but you know they're good at rocking and it's not exactly the case but it's not like there is a precedent for this setup yeah right exactly that's a good analogy for sure and I think even though we didn't have like Townsend like ambitions for concept albums and what but not you can see how the way he kind of toyed around with their sound. He made it already with every record by the time we get to the third record panorama. The tunes are much more kind of strip drip down there kind of much more electronic little chillier there not as gleefully even if ironically gleefully poppy is the first stuff it began to push it even pretty early early on and I think probably his instincts sometimes led him too far away from the pop stuff that people wanted in fact with Panorama critics kind of turned against the band right at that time time yeah it was very much the case where they were pretty much a critic ban in the beginning and I think it's interesting that critics would turn against them in retrospect 'cause. You'd think that them them making kind of art. Ear more interesting oddball records would be kind of things critics would've loved at the time and that they weren't just turning into a hit kind of machine so it was found that a little strange even agreed with it at Panorama was not as good as I am with the second album candy o which is also really terrific. I found that at the time interesting because they they were doing eh he and they were doing things that you'd think critics would have applauded and not just turning into a formula pop band but I guess the formula was so good. The first time around the people wanted more of it even critics yes yes. I think that's a great point and I think if you look at some of the early reviews of the first album of people will say that it falls short when they get experimental I think fairly or not the sense was what they they were. Actually good at was the pop stuff and not so much the experimental stuff whereas rix hearts was a huge Lou Reed Fan as you can tell he loved the band suicide was he then produced he produced not only did he end up producing some suicide records he actually had them open for the chorus doing very shows like in seventy nine to eighty one and yeah they were talking about one of the most intense immersion of all time. I mean you know two man group Alan Vega's lead singer who had this kind of wild baritone and Martin Rev was just as intense synthesizer player and they would do this really I mean it's almost assault of music and this was the group that Rick chose. Dope into the cars and you have to one of the shows like somebody threw something. At this stage Morton rip saw town day like a Tomahawk type thing in the drums like somebody actually in the in the cars fan was so upset that they hurled a weapon weapon toward the stage protested but rick loved that there was that side of him that loved you said like that Louis Underground music side of him that really came to a four once he was free of the cars but you could see hints of his future even when he was with the cars during the first day of what really floated his boat. It was a great sly surreal. Oh sometimes lyricist align the he pointed out. It's like so look at the course of just what I needed and he says I needed. I needed someone to bleed and it's like we we all just kind of blow past that and he said that he loves that that people were like pumping their fists in the air and having no idea what they were singing one of my favorite songs that desperate type. She's a lot like you. The the desperate type is like not exactly right enduring line you know but that's very skeletal era of snarling passive aggressive contempt with a weird feature of new way of right unfortunately little misogyny you know. Elvis Costello says she's working for the ABC News. It was mostly much of the alphabet. She knew how to use as it was like. Oh yes the ultimate mid period line place the cars in the context of knew where they fit in all that I think where they fit in was was like I said I think they were right from the start. There were a lot more radio friendly. They were almost like these ambassadors kind of unwittingly for the music because those records I did get on the radio in some Elvis Costello did in train in vain by the clash and there were a few things here or there but those weren't selling out arenas right away. I and I think their acceptance the mass acceptance by just your average pop fan of the cars was a huge symbolic kind of victory. At the time I think for the music it wasn't just this thing that critics liked and all the critics back then love Nick Lowe but he didn't really sell that many records back then he'd one hit cruel to be kind of Sunday. The cars had hit after hit and they kind of like rockstars. I mean they dressed like boxers head like outfits. He wore a wig. Something you discovered he did yes us and I'm still exploring the roots of that. No Pun intended there whatsoever but I mean he did suffer from a condition where he did Alopicia of some sort where he did lose his his hair periodically I believe and so yes he would wear wiggins irving. Probably all the way through the end. There was not an age thing was actual physical condition situation so the cars cars career until the reunion went up to nineteen eighty seven. What's your impression of why they broke up. I think from what people have told me including some of the former members there was a lot of tension between Rick and and Ben or who was the Bass player also sometimes vol sometimes lead singers sang lead on driving bunch of the other hits as well and I guess some of the tension dates back to that early group they win in milk would and I think Ben loved being hurry. He loves kind of the Rock Star Life in the touring life the the whole thing. Maybe a little bit more than Rick did as we talked Orleans. There's that certain mechanical approach car sounds and I mean that in a good way they were very tight and I think he loved that and by the way one of the most perfectly named bands of all time as far as the name matching sound right right incredible but yes he liked that control over the sound and you don't get that on stage as one of his friends said the liked it became a studio later because you could be interested in you knew exactly how it would sound and you had control over and you could shape it. You're on stage you at the whim I'm of sound systems audience noise out of tune instruments whatever you had to deal with especially in somewhat primitive days of seventies and early eighties when touring during so I think a lot of those things kind of drove him crazy. you know his first marriage or sorry he's second marriage. He was married three times but his second marriage ended. Maybe as a result of his who are in life and being away from family and so there were all those things combined and also apparently the experience with the last cars out and was not great. You know they had major major second win with heartbeat city which kind of forget that the car's had a huge first album and then each of the records after that had hit here. They're like shake it up which rick was embarrassed by by the way apparently apparently and let's go but then each record sold a little bit less and the bloom was a little bit off the rose and then they hook up with. Mutt Lang major pop rock producer who does heartbeat city eighty and eighty four and like that record is huge we have the rick is the star even of the you might think video wins all kinds of MTV awards and sells millions of records and suddenly they are like like at the top of the heap again. It's such a fascinating thing. It's a rare case where I can come into the art of one of these older bands in real time in nine hundred eighty five. I was probably just I starting to watch. MTV A really little kid and that was the first I'd ever heard of this band and it was like a new band for me there in nine hundred eighty five and I'm sure I speak for millions like I would say besides thriller anywhere beat it. I would say all the videos of the eighties. That's the one that sticks in my head. The most that may be van Halen's jump and a few others Amer maybe yeah but I didn't see that one as much I think was on all the time. Let's hear that song for second yeah and what's fascinating is the sound didn't really change from the first album album. It's just a little beefed up. You know you can hear by the way even in a little bit. There's the buddy holly hiccup in his voice. Actually he kind of entered the question of what would buddy holly sound like mixed blue read. That's a great point. That is totally perception. That's where you get that and then the crazy thing about that. Album is that Rick wrote this song draw right even though he didn't sing it but it is a very unrealistic song in its emotion the kind of thing where you want to look it up and be like did he really right that I mean he didn't sing it but he really did and let's let's hear that because it shows the another hidden side of him in case they did kind of push their sound further into the eighties for sure and additional vocals it feels more foxy goals than anything that they had done previously but also it's one of those situations where it also spelled the end of the band's because from what I've heard making records quite the ordeal. It took a really long time. Mutt Lang is very very demanding. Say what a Mutt Lang time yeah but you know it's the first time they'd really encountered something to that extent. I mean one of the guys said you they started the record in England and he brought like Spring and he just brought a light jacket and didn't leave England until like nine months later and they didn't have to buy my new coat because it was cold I mean they appreciate it in terms of the successive but later told someone like don't ever do that don't ever spend that much time on a record and so they decide to produce the next one door themselves by that point they were big rocks as they were traveling separately unlike buses and planes and that sort of thing was settling in and and they produce and it it wasn't as successful. Hitless record basically that didn't even go plat and that's the writing on the wall. We asked why band broke up and then you see that the a final record tin platinum that tends to be selling like whatever it was five million copies of heartbeat city or maybe even more they weren't even selling out shows on that tour. It was a a really dramatic drop in popularity. It's it's really kind of striking. Given how big heartbeat city was I mean it was three or four years later which can be a lifetime but it's like things just like turned. I'm not sure what they turn to in one thousand nine hundred seventy it wasn't that dramatic May. Rem Gulf between eighty four and eighty seven. It was pretty big. Actually I think that was the Gulf that was challenging for people that was a long time so he was and we're getting more into the mellencamp and bruce kind of stuff. Boost Navy's not just another trouble. I will sign that record is that or wrote like half the record which was the most he had ever written before and again when you ask why ban broke up and then all of a sudden you see there didn't go platinum and had a different songwriter. It's like I don't know but maybe or is like I just saying our biggest hit drive. I can write songs too for same thing happened to creedence clearwater revival and by the the time they got to their last record the bass player and drummer. We're like well. Why can't we write songs John. You know why is it all just you and so you look at the credits of Mardi gras which is the last creedence clearwater what a revival album and featured only a couple of songs and the other songs had been sunk by the rhythm section guys and they just weren't as good and boom then a group breaks up so maybe it wasn't quite as widespread in the car is but I think all those factors combine rick can lie some tension in the band. That was just it was only ten years after the first album. It's just kind of it's been you look back and I was like but I was actually kind of a short run in a way he was making soul records all time his second solo record came out right before door to door so there was a lot of writing on the wall he then started. Doing you know he produced another suicide. Record in eighty eight his solo records just never connected occasionally. It'd be pretty good occasionally. They would get good reviews but for some reason it's one of those guys who possibly had he called certain things the cars. Maybe they would have been hits. Who knows just somehow? This records. Just never did very much. I don't think he he lost the Knack for writing pop songs but his voice was begnaud. Voice was a little more radio friendly and that part of it and also I think the side came out. I mean he had spoken. Oh can word bits on his albums and songs that were not quite as Cynthia suicide but they were a little more subterranean in their sound. I would say and they weren't really taming. The I think one of the guys in the band thought that his second record decided paradise which was eighty six was actually the real kind of follow up heartbeat city. It's a bit commercial record door door to door but yeah for the most part you know you got the impression that he was sort of dutifully promoted solo records with an interview or two but he would never really tour behind them and the you know we'd begrudgingly make a video. It's almost like his heart wasn't really into his own career or something Arizona music. I should say at that point. Maybe it was but it certainly. It seemed like he got us. Much satisfaction. Ask faction out of producing bands weezer was like his cars or something in some way even though the way kind of oversaw that record yeah we shouldn't remaining Ricco Catholic moments. We should talk briefly about his production again which yet and in ninety four you know basically there was it was it was actually. I guess ninety three when they actually recorded this band. Weezer Caesar who had been signed as a fairly low priority to geffen were looking for war a producer will actually they wanted to produce it themselves but the label said no way and so they're in our got pat solve and was trying to find an acceptable producer for them and one possibility was the production team behind the debut radiohead album. That would have been an interesting combination. The other possibility happened to be Ricco Kasich and as it happened Rivers Cuomo was listening to the greatest hits so he'd Kinda loved the idea and Rick when he I heard that album. He told me he thought it was like a metal band when I heard the demos because it was just like loud roaring guitars chilling like this is a really poppy metal band I like this and then he went to see see them and was really charmed by probably responded to the nerdiness and definitely had a big influence on the album. I think some people misunderstood they might think that he put the symptom buddy holly or something like at that's not true at all it was in the demos but he by both reporting tightened it up and it was a massive massive success data established him as someone who could produce the big albums even if the truth is like a lot of the albums he produced afterwards did not become as big as weezer in fact something like the green album was his other. You'd success another weezer out so he and weezer actually were really were an underrated thing as a team that really work but you know what do you think as you have just written. Bryan Herta great feature about the earliest sweetser. What did he bring to them. What was that I think combination tightness focused even that he seemed to not be able to bring to us on Solo albums rivers likes to like think in a lot of different directions and I think rick would put them in one direction. Hey I'm Brian Hiatt and this is rolling stone music now in the studio with David Brown. We wanted to talk a bit before we had to leave about the great Robert Hunter Lyricist for the grateful dead who also passed away recently and David didn't incredible two part interview with Barbara Hunter just recently in two thousand fifteen and he had held the life story he was the first grateful dead associate to drop LSD because he was in the government study right the Stanford study what they would pay you twenty bucks or something to like stay so they could monitor your you know how it impacted on you yeah. He was gonNA the one of the people have kind kinda spread the word in their community back then he also dabbled in scientology which is kind of wild. He's tried to get Jerry into Jerry didn't like the whole like staring each other in the face. Jerry's like stick with Orioles inherited those will get me through but I have just read his answer to you when you said let's talk about who became the dead's primary lyricist nineteen sixty seven. I was pretty deeply into speed and methane came close to mess and myself up the was in. I had to get it out seen entirely because as long as I was around it'd be tempted so I went off to New Mexico and while I was there have been running some songs I had written Saint Stephen and China cat sunflower and I sent those now geof Jerry and he uncharacteristically wrote back he he said they were going to use the song so why didn't they come out and be there lyricist which I did which is just incredible and then there's the story of how they were rehearsing what became Darkstar and Robert started like writing the lyrics as they were playing. They were doing like a kind of a sound check rehearsal for this outdoor show just north of San Francisco and yet he was just like on a bench outside the venue new and this listening to them to the you know early right kind of dabble with this song and he just yeah just wrote lyrics out to it and it was just like as they were playing and that was the first time he kind of a song within once he relocated back to San Francisco and he became their in house lyricists than it was even like on staff in a way he had one of those rare air positions in music. I Bernie top and we were talking about. Maybe one of the only people in fact when I interviewed a Robert Back then I said yeah who else besides you and he said he could only think of one other which was Bernie top which is a kind of a separate lyricist for a band in rock history. There was a guy in Brooklyn Harem also did that but there weren't too many others so he was sort of like to the outside world he was this invisible member of the band but he was the voice of the band in so many ways and he wasn't super collaborative with Jerry was more like he was writing. These brilliant lyrics and Jerry would just pick some of them. It really sounds like many cases. It's fascinating because he was in his own way in tour of the band. I love he said Casey Jones. I didn't start out as a song it popped into his mind driving that trend higher cocaine. Casey Jones you better watch your speed and he wrote it down somewhere and he came back to his head could be a pretty good song. He would just pump out these lyrics and just send them to the point where he said he drove. Jerry little crazy J bug another batch of lyrics. I gotTA write more music and Hunter was doing that right up until recently when he collaborate with people like Hornsby and Bob Dylan and country singer Jim Lauderdale many others he just you know sometimes. Have these things ready to go and they would say we'll have some music. You have anything he would just send it. He wrote a couple of new songs with Bob Weir and Phil Lash when they played in further and he said they just when they got a big envelope in the mail with a bunch of hundred lyrics well what a fantastic thing and it must be said when Bob Dylan is getting you to help him write lyrics that says a hell of a lot about what a good lyricist you are and he was amazing and what Dylan said about him is that he saw him as a kindred spirit and the he writes lyrics that aren't like what passed for Song Lyrics these days as he was plugged into something deeper and it was a real tree and he was brilliant and recipes and he has all the notebooks with his original songs are somewhere out there somewhere so we've been talking about the music of regular Catholic and the Work Robert Hunter and this has been today's wrong stone music now at went very fast. I'm Brian Hi and was here with David. Brown will be back next week here on Sirius. Xm Fayoum Channel One zero six in the meantime. We are podcast download the podcast subscribe arrive to us as a podcast wherever you get your podcast. Maybe we listen. I tend to appreciate that in the meantime as always thanks for listening seen expert.
Trump's Impeachment Spin, Layoffs at Sports Illustrated, and the WWE Goes to Fox | The Press Box
"What's up guys it's kelly welcome to the ringer podcast network i wanted to leak is about a brand new podcast coming to our luminary slate called sonic boop for more more than four decades the seattle supersonics were among the NBA's most iconic franchises but in two thousand and eight a pack their backs oklahoma hosted by the ringers jordan ritter con on sonic boom tells the story of basketball and politics wealth and power and reveals new truths about the NBA's greatest heist you can find the eight episode documentary podcast exclusively unlimited starting october third david in a company meeting the leaked to the media facebook chief mark zuckerberg told co workers it would quote suck if elizabeth warren became president what i want to know is is who is the best political enemy you could have right now who i mean we're this is a week where where joe biden has relish in being the person in trump's line of fire joe biden joe biden has finally found purpose in his campaign what is this week just want to say seventy donald i'm not going anywhere and that wasn't what was at stake here you're not thirty fatty was on the WWF on smackdown better position i mean like wh who how could he possibly get luckier than to have donald trump come after you directly and vinh newsbreaks bid off off the record whatever meeting mark zuckerberg win after elizabeth warren i'm like oh i think we've found a better villain donald trump had like nineteen perfect enemies this week it was adam schiff who kept calling shifty shifty that was the thing right he also who else did he name as his enemy this week i mean i think it was basically everybody nancy pelosi that was a big one right 'cause she was she unlike paul ryan would approve subpoenas for just about anything a lot of subpoenas basically any democrat that would would they get this line of fire yeah i mean the fact that he was like singling out the biden was big but he heat but you're right he has too many years too many too many too many opponents i think mark zuckerberg and i think especially to like a a younger generation and i mean what what what grade villain is there mark zuckerberg even if you love facebook agha's turned himself into like the greatest bond villain i i was just gonna say bond villain yeah because you control all the technology unless you're like i mean unless an actual villain i don't even know who that would be unless an actual you meet somebody like with a mass own own just started like tearing into comma harris or something like that saying like she should never be elected like who who could be who would be more united than that well i know it's it's weird because in this time of trump like actual international villains daring into the united states the ebola virus just cause a news conference to say we can't elect beto auroras yeah we're the ernst stub robe lohfeld of media podcast the press box a part of the ringer podcast network hello media consumers bryan curtis and a real live in person david shoemaker here i just honestly it's weird to see you it's weird to be here a talk to you twice a week there's no like facetime ing in between i think chris and andy probably face time when you know andy's out on the new mexico desert or something like that but you and i it's just solely on the pot so when i get a good look at you i'm always just like wow he's really had to take that that's fantastic you know you look you good very good lots of things to get to today including a candlelight vigil for the writers and editors that sports illustrated we'll talk about when newspaper reporters should hold giant scoops for their books and when they shouldn't will talk about pro wrestling moving to the penthouse of the fox network and we've got listener mail in that overworked twitter joke the week but david we gotta start with the latest on impeachment which we can group under the heading of wildly implausible ways donald trump and friends have have tried to spin the ukraine story there are way too many for one segment because i saw rudy giuliani putting up texts on twitter the whole gang over at the federalist feeling roads but i think we can break down trump and his allies attempts at spin into a few distinct categories that i'm gonna hit you with here category number one now this may seem counterintuitive but commit the same impeachable acts a new this was early this morning it just as we're going on trump's earlier problem was leaning on ukraine to investigate biden and his son hunter this morning on the white house lawn trump called for china to do the same thing china started investigation into the by because what happened in china it is just about as bad as what happened with with ukraine so i would say that presidents alinsky if it were me i would recommend that they start at investigation into devices somebody ought to think about impeaching that gay why in the world it's the same thing isn't it it's hard to of all of the things that he's done and there've been some real winners over the past week alone is that the hardest one to listen to in right off as being the work of a madman i mean that feels like it must speak like of all of our conspiracy theories about how the trump white house works this one feels like it must be a deliberate decision to go out there and do exactly what they've done before to to normalize something by by repeating it again in front of cameras and microphones i one thousand percent agree that if we have have this narrow may be impeachable thing we did in a white house supplied transcript we're going to double down on the fact that that is not in fact impeachable uh-huh and muddy the waters and sort of convince people subliminally by just saying it over and over yes so i guess the only question is what country is next should turkey investigate joe and hunter biden should trinidad and tobago investigate joe and hunter biden how far can we go here but it is the trump volume strategy right he is he has a thing where i think he does has doubled down on bad axe and in a way it revs up his base because what they like about trump is that he so audacious and he's the big tough guy who doesn't care and he's not going to back down to the media yeah he's just gonna do it again i think that's right and listen i mean like i said we're all in this sort of post factual a stage in terms of our politics news consumption rate and like even the i think there's a lot of very kind of baseline trump supporters that are not looking to find out whether or not and this goes for both sides but they're not looking to find out whether or not what trump did is impeachable or is illegal or whatever else but they're just looking for a a passable line of defense line of argument on twitter as as to why it's okay right and this and he sort of felt he is providing that meet that grist for his for his supporters i i'll even go you a step down on the evolutionary chain i think they're just looking for a flex yeah they're just looking for trump to say i don't care i don't care if you think this is impeachable i'm just going to do it anyway yeah i mean i don't even know that you know you're right there is that we're gonna get to that in a second that's kind of fox news federalist right wing here's what it's here's what this is really about i think they just want trump to just be like nah yeah i'm fine there's i'm sure there's a million ways to attack this before we we get too bogged down in this sort of meta analysis of the whole thing you in as i guess it bears mentioned that like the actual things the president is our is saying don't make any cognitive sense i mean there's like it's he's he's attacking the whistle blower and then openly doing the things that the whistle blower said that he what did he say like like like the line if the line of defense against the accusation should be yes it's okay i did exactly what he said nobody should have any problem with that because they need then he's functionally that's what he's doing and everything i mean but just the money of the waters i mean he's he's doing every defense at once it we were right he's doing every defensive ones anything i didn't do it and also i did and it's okay and we saw rudy giuliani due to both defenses within ten seconds yeah i didn't do that of course i did it yeah it's really weird i far more conventional diversionary tactic is just a attack your enemy's sure straight out of the trumpian playbook in this case this was it was from a press conference with finland's president my god that poor man standing next to while he raged against the media trump's particular target in this case was california congressman adam schiff not a thing wrong unless you heard the adam schiff version zhenhua he made up my conversation actually made it up it should be criminal it should be treasonous he made it up every word of it made up and read to congress as i said it and i'll tell you what we should be forced to resign from congress adam schiff he's a lowlife you should be forced to resign he took a perfect perfect conversation realized he couldn't read it to congress because it was a very nice conversation i know many people on the phone not only were many people on the phone we had stenographers on the phone taking it down word for word he took that conversation which was perfect he said i can't read this so he he made up a conversation and he reported it and said it to congress to the american people and it was horrible what he said and that was supposed to becoming from me but it was all fabricated he should resign from office in disgrace and frankly they should look at him for treason because he is making up words of the president of the united states not only words but the meaning and it's a disgrace should not be allowed to happen i know that this is ridiculous on its face and the trump doesn't really care what adam schiff says but like adam schiff was you know was clearly just like imagining what that conversation might have been like in a slightly humorous way when he was speaking last week but this is for someone like donald trump who literally reenact conversations every time you put put a microphone in front of his face he makes like fantastic and i'm not even talking about like things were places where we should be accusing him of lying or you know whatever i mean that's just the way this man dan speaks he'd like you ask him like i was dinner last night and you'll just be like oh i was i was sitting with milania malania said look at that beautiful moon outside and you look so good in that suit honey makes it's up things that people say all the time as our national unreliable narrator and it'd be named for that that i mean i guess maybe that's exactly why folks and and even if schiff i've had done a comedy version making up trump quotes that let us know that is not treason the offense is punishable by death when you had lindsey graham who was like miss misunderstood deliberately misunderstand the definition of hair of hearsay earlier this week the way that the the these like mr these words are thrown around with deliberate disregard right or maybe not even the right word here say that was incredible yeah i mean it's the to to to remove the meaning of every word is i'm sure i'm sure it will be that will be you know the the nut graph of some great philosopher looking back on this era and political history that we just like to devalue the meaning of every word is a beautiful metaphor for the the way that we've just like self-destructed our political system or something i didn't even including our litany here but do you see kevin mccarthy from congressman from from california on sixty minutes and he was read part of the official white house pseudo transcript from the ukraine call and he's like that's not what it said inserted a word and scott pelley was i know i didn't actually i'm just reading you verbatim from this this document put put out by the white house and by the way speaking of obscuring words and distorting their meaning trump claimed more than once yesterday that that was is an exact transcript from his phone call with president of ukraine though the the thing itself says that it is not an exact transcript yes so the white house released something this is not an exact transcript and the trump is actually it's an executive okay let me look into treason charges that transcript the us down another heading here cussing diversionary tactic cussing big trump tweet yesterday the do nothing democrats should be focused on building up our country not wasting my time and energy on bullshit all caps but as many printable pointed out here with trump on the same day attacking adam shifts criticism of secretary of state mike pompeo the the most honorable person mike pompeo and this guy was negative when mike pompeo he can't you know there's an expression he couldn't carry his is blank strap i won't say it because it was so terrible to say but that guy couldn't carry his blank strap you understand that i don't know if i do understand that he is blank strap bootstrap that presumably should've pulled himself up what a weird place to censor you remember when we were living together in new york and our moms had come visit us and immediately like the network sensor button clicks in our heads a week can't talk like we normally talk in his apartment we would have we would not have censored the word jockstrap of all words to say we know censored a lot from those days we would not have censored the word jockstrap no absolutely does that remind you that only bell match game bit you know a man walked into a park and he pulled down his blank blank blank blank yeah yeah i think i was i was my my first take on this this is not about the the blank strap per se thank god but i got a push notification on my phone that i'm probably going to misquote but it was from NBC news it said like president trump explodes explodes in profanity and i was just like what the and i was literally watching CNN at the time of staying at a hotel here in LA the the only news available is CNN you know which is just sort of a weird island beyond what i'm used to watching CNN i was like why what what was the exposure profanity and then i realized it was just a tweet it said bullshit but it's weird i i know that the news organizations are constantly recalibrating what they're going to kind of be permissive of in the trump era but it did seem weird that like using the word bullshit shit and tweet was sort of the bridge too far for NBC news you know i mean like i'm not sure that that qualifies even as like president of norms aside i kinda feel like if president obama had said bullshit and in front of a gaggle we would have just been like okay like it's the twenty first century right you know we can do this uh-huh but like president trump tweeted about something that regardless of what you believe about what's going on right now but it's impeachment inquiry it is reasonable for for president trump somebody's this position to be like that's a bunch of bullshit right i don't know maybe i'm taking this do later no you're right because it's it's reminds me robert deniro on CNN the other day oh yeah he was was the cleanest thing robert deniro it ever said but we all have to do though go hey hey kids might be watching this yeah that was really weird i mean this is this is this is the p. tape president right yeah i'm not i'm sorry let me let me do the p. word president sorry i think he's so easy to get confused interview with donald trump p-word tape president i think blank word resident in the league is blank all right type of the overwork twitter joke of the week where we celebrate a gag that was so obvious that all of media twitter made it at exactly the same time please send your nominees to at the press box pod where they are always gratefully fully received one diversionary tactic david that we did not get to was trump posting a video twitter that showed the world a picture of joe biden and hunter biden with a ukrainian guy allegedly a ukrainian guy and what was weird was that picture was inserted inserted into the video of the two thousand and five nickelback song photograph so trump given all the tools of of of propaganda that president commands went with the nickelback video it was an over were twitter too right forcing the entire country to listen to nickelback should would be an impeachable offense thanks to usually GB for that one true we mentioned that yesterday trump met with the president of finland his name is sali sali knee nisa i think i'm saying that right sulina sta over there in the white house thank you chris for help with that during that trump gets it's into it with reuters reporter jeff mason who was really the face of professionalism during the whole exchange made the wires proud after going a few rounds trump demanded ended the jeff mason stop asking questions about biden and ask me nigga a question okay says way we got the president of finland right here why did you ask liam anything but listen to how trump butts in even on that question asked the president of finland to question please okay i'll move on now mr president in your opening remarks you said to president trump that you had been to some museums today and that respected the US democracy and encouraged him to continue you would are you concerned that that's not happening and my second question to you sir is the WTO ruled today in favor of the united states saying that the united states can now impose tariffs on european goods because of illegal subsidies against airbus always a big win for the united states that's right it was never had wins with other presidents did you but we're having a lot of wins at the WTO started i think ten or fifteen years ago excuse me so i want you to ask finland's finland's president question but i'm going to also answer that question it was an overall twitter joke right i'm gonna let you finish man's may laugh kept created initiative kevin kept aleph thanks to michael for that one and finally david that story about trump and the border that ran in the new york times more on that and just one second suggested that trump wanted the US to build a trench filled with alligators to to determine migrants from coming into the united states a trench filled with alligators trump went to twitter shockingly to rebut the charges as now the press this is trying to sell the fact that i wanted a moat stuffed with alligators but he did not write moat he wrote moot m. oh OT healing capitalized moot it was an award twitter joke to write moot point but even better and when in doubt go what they reference to season four episode seven of seinfeld the bubble boy all right bubble boy black who invaded spain in the eighth century that's a joke the moors ono i'm so sorry it's the moose the correct answer the booth that's not mooks oops jerk it's moore's different i'm sorry the tide says mr president the card says moot moot view reference seinfeld and didn't talk about streaming services congrats you made the overwork twitter joke of the week all right david let us enter the notebook dumped section of this podcast and let us interest grimly because we've got layoffs at sports illustrated the wall street journal last tonight this is ben mullen and jeffrey trachtenberg reported that at least twenty percent of the full time staffers over at sl would be laid off today and a deadspin berry chest said that number could be as high as fifty percent of full time staffers the journal further reports that the maven you remember this company and there's no space between the and maven and some even or some similar then moving sounds like a medicine it does give your kids when they have a really wet hacking cough at night the moven immediate startup that was sold the licensing rights to sl will bring in two hundred contract workers to fill the holes created by the layoff in other news over there chris stone the editor in chief of sl is out of a job as of tuesday partic- reports at digital editor mark mcklusky is also out i feel you and i have had nine versions of this conversation about a media entities not so let me just let me just without being contrary and let me just take us over one lane on the highway here i don't wanna hear about how this is defaming the legacy of sl i don't even really wanna hear your memories of getting sl in the mailbox and how great it was and how terrible all this thing is happening you you know what in the seventies and eighties and and frank ford dan jenkins all those people guess what those people got paid right those people got i pay really well by timing yeah this doesn't defame the memory of us i that's that's not going anywhere all this does is just absolutely suck for the people who are working there now yeah that's all i really care about here people who are apparently being called in or maybe not to a meeting today to get fired so that they can replace them with two hundred rondos who are gonna cover sports for us i yeah i mean to me that's that if we are laser focusing our angst and concern that's where it goes from me yeah i think that's right i mean i'm not sure that if you know companies to performing corporate takeovers takeover or buying out legacy media with great you know memories and reputations i don't know if he would help anything if the acquiring firms would be more upfront at the beginning and just being like yeah we just bought it for the logo we wanna put it on a duffel bag and we're gonna probably lay a bunch of people off if they had said that on day one i'm not sure that it would make us feel any better right now but it sure feels like something that would be better for all parties involved you know make you feel kinda set it right dade brand said remember we're going to build like sl the hospital none medical glenn it yeah i mean and and there were there were some caveats to and they when they they all you know i guess it's it's the role of yeah i mean any any company now will put a positive spin on it so they're not going to focus on the negatives but yeah this just sucks for the people who are getting laid off and i think it just feels ford secretly dire i it just happens time and time again not when we the is on i won't be the last company like this that will cover but it's like you know there's not a it it's life altering for people who are losing their jobs especially in the world whether like there's not necessarily an obvious place to go and drop your application asian off you know there's not this isn't how this is this is an SI has been such a legacy institution one we like to think that you'd be safer there in some kind of vague way in to a lot of people who've you know given their lives i mean it's been a big portion of their lives there right and and yeah it's hard to see it's hard to see that happen to good people who are doing good work us think when my phone lights up with texas the did last night as a star who is coming down we our minds immediately go to the really good famous writers at sl that we know those people and again i don't i don't want to minimize their pain and annoyance and those people will probably be fine it's the writers and non ford facing people you don't know yeah this is really gonna suck for like those those are the people that are today going what am i gonna do you know the person who has really good at profiles long form and all that stuff that that person probably gonna has good chancing i'm not guaranteeing anything not saying you'll be fine no soon you'll be fine oh i think that's exactly right i mean i think that is the big names are going to be fine anything even like christine who's not a not a household name even amongst like media consumers whatever i mean there's i don't know that he'll be fine in his for his definition of the term but someone will someone will bring cristo on you know and they'll be lucky to have done it yet there's there hundreds of more people who risk losing their jobs who you and i will never know their names you know like we all know it all we can really know is that the people that are getting hurt by this because you know all in the name of like someone seeing greater value in s is a branding operation than as the news hour and as soon as that part of it came out when this when the whole transition got a horrible word transition when the whole you know offloading of sl from from from time inc and then mayor was starting as soon as it was like s is a brand you knew you knew this was going to happen i think that i was willfully in denial of of with that only because we talked about this before but i mean i think i was willfully ignorant of it because they're in denial of it because the history of publishing is like a prestige thing luxury for rich people are rich organizations to have i mean it's a real thing goes back to the frigging medici or whatever but like it's a part of it is you have to let the artists create art right i mean you have to like to for it to be worth the prestige of putting this logo on a fanny pack like like there's gotta be something behind it right i mean you one would hope and released you could make the argument that that you have to have sports illustrated so being sports illustrated for sports illustrated health health clubs to be worthwhile but i guess not you know you're you're you're right on that it reminds me of when you go to the airport and you see like magazines and newspapers barely exist or the name of the new stand at the airport and those are not in a lot of cases vibrant places anymore more but you know as you and i are are on the wrong side of forty and we're just we go and go oh that must be reputable place it's southern living newsstand you stand i remember that on my mom's die table when i was a kid that must be okay dave you're gonna lay off a bunch of people you should do it in the most ham handed manner possible i think that would definitely help at a time like this this is also from jesse's report on wednesday night staffer over sl were sent emails telling them to come to the transition addition meeting there's that word again according to jesse staffers compared the emails and quickly realize there are two separate meetings at different times and they fear that one of the groups thanos like will be given pink slips while with the other told it is safe then deadspin reports as of this morning thursday same than an hour before the transition meetings began they were cancelled with no explanation so i'm sorry should be laughing at a time like this but like no but it's like the the trump administration were like these are not you know we wanna make out the media overlords to be like oh these people are really really bad guys but really these people are probably just incompetent guys he's people are probably just nincompoops yeah i mean that's probably their their definitional quality at a time like this i mean listen at least we live in an era where idiotic corporate overlords are constantly on their heels of being put on their heels by blogs just stating stating the fact of the thing that they have done anything like this keeps happening where someone's just like look at this thing that these dumb asses did and they're just like oh crap we really hope nobody would know would have known about the other like we hadn't thought about this even for one second i always wonder if they care about that i mean like really genuinely cancel the me they cancelled the meeting somebody cares about it but it's like these media media guys who were kind of you know outer rim media press barons you know like barely known yeah and eh their first page of just google search forever will be the guy that killed sports illustrated i mean is that you know i don't i don't know i mean it's probably worth the gamble to them because you know if you're the guy that built something out of the ashes of sports illustrated i guess that's the upside i think that i think they do care i think that's puts them on their heels i think that we saw that go media you know it's just like as soon as you come to grips the fact that there's an article that is going to be written your name in it and just a cataloging of the things you did that would have i've never been brought to light even five years ago let alone in the euro in which you came up then suddenly just your you become very apologetic her her circumspect i wanna talk to you about the idea of holding your scoops because maybe this week's most read non-impeachment story was a piece by the new york times white house correspondent correspondent michael shear and julie hirschfeld davis which i mentioned a moment ago it's actually and this will become important an excerpt from their upcoming book border wars inside trump's assault on immigration here is sheer and davis on trump quote privately the president has often talked about fortifying a border wall with a water filled trench docked with snakes or alligators prompting aides to seek a cost estimate he wanted the wall electrified with spikes on top that could pierce human flesh rush after publicity publicly suggesting that soldiers shoot migrants if they threw rocks the president backed off when a staff told him that was illegal but later in the meeting aides recalled he suggested tested that they shoot migrants in the legs to slow them down that's not allowed either they told him so that came out and then at slates ashley feinberg tweets it's this gonna go ahead and say that if you know the president said in a meeting that we should be shooting migrants in the legs to slow them down you should not be saving that for whenever a your book is scheduled to come out where do you fall on that question i mean i kind of fall into like the will when you put it like that camp i guess i mean it's i think i understand we talk about a couple of weeks ago with cavenaugh when they ran the exit from that and there is the story that you know should have been can be people arguing should have been brought to light earlier i mean it's tough when you're working on a book a lot of times you signed part of your contract is you can't you have to keep everything secret until the book comes out or during the press for the book and and also i mean as far as terrible as this is even sale allowed i'm not sure that any of that meets it meets i mean reach the level of light catastrophe in a catastrophic in terms of the trump administration yeah i guess that's the question is is is that such a national emergency that that should have been in the paper in march meeting was march we don't quite know win win the authors found found out about it we're sitting here in october with their newly released book i'll say this it's one of the oldest things in newspapers is when a newspaper person works on a book that's about their beat yeah are they hoarding scoops for the book that of course editor in almost every case would say let's get that in the paper yeah ah let's break that usually it doesn't involve something like the president thinks we should shoot people that are coming across the border and has to be talked out of it by aids it's it's an interesting one to me it's pretty close you know i think you could probably save alligators snakes for the book or the you know skin piercing pursing spikes because they're just so ludicrous yeah and so not going to happen and i think probably part of their defense or is it it was it's shit trump says out loud yeah and how much stock do you put on that especially when aides immediately said you can't do this yeah and again this is ridiculous i mean this is this is a horrific disclaimer disclaimer but it also matters the context in which he said it right if all those things are are pieces of one sentence you know if he's laughing while he says it you know these are different these these are things that matter any i think but i think what you get at is is is the main point he's just just shit trump says you know i mean i think that i don't know if you heard truck closer men are boss bill's podcast this week but he talked a little bit about global warming and now this is this is sort of like philosophical like error that a lot of candidates average like if you call global warming the greatest crisis ever that's faced humanity and like in the past thousand years than like there's no reason to be campaigning on any other issues sort of you know there's this cognitive dissonance between like what you you say like what you're actually the rest of what you say there is a little bit about that it's like if you if you if you think that those words that trump said anything any words that trump said ed or so problematic specific words come out of his mouth especially in the private in private in a meeting or so problematic that that deter the that demands front page you know front front page attention in the new york times or whatever then you know this is a much more problematic presidency than i think anybody's than anybody's really saying allowed as a great point as just i always think of it from the lot of journalists yeah they want to make money yeah that profession where you're getting real rich and dan you want the one way to kinda change your income status in this profession besides doing it doing serial podcast is to write a book look and so then you're faced with this idea of i gotta save stuff for the book because i want the book to be to sell as many copies as possible i the book can't be a rehash of stuff i've already written for the most part it's gotta have new stuff in it yeah but how do i just do it so that's to me it's always like it's kind of a journalist saying how do i make money and if it's on your beat and these people cover the white house it's really tough like if they'd gone they'd read a book david about buying a house in tuscany and redoing it and in kind of finding meaning through you know through going there maybe going to bali and doing yoga i just have to make just referencing random bestsellers a golden retriever helped him get through the death of their pair of murder mystery and savannah you get the idea if they had done that the times wouldn't care and nobody would really care but because it's about trump and it's on their bait they do let's talk about wrestling i'm ready to cheer out yeah because sometimes on the media be david you've got to leave your desk and do some shoe leather reporting which is why we are heading getting over to staples center on friday to watch the WWE's friday night smackdown and this is a media story because smackdown is going to air on fox a bona fide network which won the rights last year it's also part of fox's sports division which i kind of find and as as sports media person fascinating i'm pretty sure that's the first time wrestling has been under the ages of a sports division we might argue saturday nights made of ed benkin NBC i don't think that that was part of NBC sports proper like world class wrestling running on ESPN news back in the day or something like that i i was thinking about this and the meta will will save the you know grimy specifics for the mass man podcast she will be on this week how to with a lot of crossover this week but to me this is wrestling has been on this slow collision course with mainstream culture which you have written about so so many times over decades decades yeah it keeps getting closer for wrestling to get a slot on network television is he's to me one of the final you know bumps or no pun intended or final moves into the mainstream the chose me anyway that wrestling has sort of done it and it sort of one what do you think yeah i mean i think there's a couple of things at play first of all our pop culture in general and our sports arts culture whatever has has kind of diminished but it's like you know come down on its high horse a little brushing network television yes yeah i mean the point that i make over over and over again i may have said that so many times is that like when i was growing up when you were growing up the bane of every wrestling fans existence was when you would say your you know your interesting you're going to watch wrestling somebody would turn you disdain and there is and just say like you know that stuff's fake don't you right and that was true up until i mean i started writing about wrestling you know i was i mean until like ten years ago or whatever i mean and and probably more recently than that but now we're in a world where like you cannot look at someone and say you know that stuff's fake don't you and then go home and watch the kardashians on television right you can't go home and say you know it's fake don't you and then like you know watch to people yelling each other on fox news i mean like everything is is false everything is fake it's okay we're past that also there's this litany of wrestling deaths and injuries and everything that's become more reality over the past twenty years you cover remember right a piece of sort of put the lie to the wrestling is wrestling is fake sports thing right i mean wrestlers are getting concussed and injured at a higher rate than football players i mean this is they're putting their bodies through hell but i think that in general you're right i mean there or culture is lowered itself wrestling's climbed up a little bit they've met in the middle there's also just in terms of sports has got to be said that wrestling was kind of their first WWE WWF did on saturday saturday night's main event and on MTV you know back in the eighties they were the sort of like that was an aspirational point for pro sports right ticket for football football is has been climbing towards words that point of pop culture will kind of crossover ever since then the NBA to me none of that for our pro sports didn't look like hulk hogan on MTV back in the eighties you mean in blending with pop culture pop culture yes in rossi's over yeah exactly kind of having you know the the figure is that like everybody recognizes having that sort of cultural awareness so so now we're back it's really it's of i you know we've known this has been coming for a long time obviously the ink deal with fox to move smackdown over there awhile back and we've been sort of counting down but i i was not prepared for the emotional for the for the emotions that i felt when fox NFL sunday football ball was promoting WWE wall to wall on sunday every game every like every every commentary booth seemed to have a professional wrestler sitting in senate every bumper had a had a WWE smackdown graphic every the announcers themselves were like we're like spitting out segues just like and if you like that hit you're really gonna love with roman reigns does this friday night on smackdown i mean credible right it was first of all it was shocking that it happened but more importantly it was shocking how weirdly seamless it felt am i right about that it did and apparently we're going to get more of that because roman reigns is going to be on thursday night football tonight in some capacity now if he's like throwing the football around with michael strahan and terry bradshaw i think we can think of that as one level of entrenchment in american culture yeah if he is standing between joe buck and tradesmen in the booth that that to me is like oh whoa that for some reason that it feels more like a wow wrestling has his really to go back to the penthouse metaphor did it is in the box it is in the sky box it is here it is part of our lives and away and this is why the fox deal means more to WWE than anybody could really has really could really wrap their mind around us that fox needs this to work work right and it's not as need to have a new show has a show that successful on friday nights they've got the NFL on sunday they've got the NFL on on on thursday in sunday college football saturday that's right professional wrestling is a lynch pin of a four day block of sports programming and they need and all the stuff has five sport lives is worth and and they in synchronicity is a key every it's like you know your favorite MSNBC show throwing the next show i mean they just have to throw from night tonight and it's aw at all has to work for the block to work yeah so i mean i think there's gonna be a lot of attention paid to WB ratings because that's the thing that wrestling nerds loved have long love love to do and i'm not sure that the specific numbers that were anything i'm not sure that we know the specific numbers are looking for i'm not sure how much anything any of our discourse course about that will matter but i do think that they needed to succeed and part of success is the kind of sheen of legitimacy which is something that's really hard for pro wrestling to achieve achieve on its own it takes an tv you know in the brawl to end it all it takes saturday night's main event it take saturday night live when wrestlers appear on there to give wrestling that sort of legitimacy and fox has a very very vested interest in making WBZ's seem like like a like a legitimate and never eight now and i mean legitimate in terms of it being real i think we're all aware of what pro wrestling is think it's legitimate in terms of this deserves of this deserves a two hour block in primetime television the vision every week and to that point of legitimacy have you been as amused as i have as wrestlers have fanned out across the fox empire this week particularly on fox and friends i love this now the obvious joke here is that that man who's playing at offensive over the top character no the one sitting next to steve doocy grimshaw here is kofi kingston who is the WWE champion WBZ champion oh yeah just make sure i get my belts right w champion appearing on america's favorite morning show fox does things they do things differently how is fox gonna do smackdown differently it's big it's so unlike the we've had a lot of promotion and even just the way that everything is cameras it looks great you know there's so much enthusiasm behind this whole movement you know it's a big big deal for us i've been saying it all along like WWE fox it's like hanan glove you know right everybody wants to do we have rang a wrestling ring set up in the middle of north right now really we're doing big we expect when we expected yes october fourth fourth smacked i would just like to point out that i was on fox and friends talking about professional wrestling before any of these fools were the champ is here yeah yeah well dave david claiming superiority even over kofi kingston let's do a-list or mail and we'll get outta here david this one comes from steve french he says camping out in front of the ringer store until i get an at the press box pod t shirt that says i think that's right it's always nice to be informed by someone someone else that you have a catchphrase and by the way you did say i i was listening for it on this pod and you did say a during the sports illustrated segment i don't doubt it is like any by the way thank thank you steve for that it's usually like a one or one and a half second pause where when we're doing this show separately i wonder if you're mike has dropped out or if your connection has dropped out and then it's like i think that's right it's david gathering his thoughts thank you steve speaking of press box mass man crossovers here's michael salerno directs to the news that jesse the body ventura is kinda sorta contemplating a run for president here's with alex michelson michaelson of fox LA the country's gonna get reunited is to elect an independent president so if it's not you then who is it i don't know so then do you feel a need to do a voice in the back of my head that says to me if not us then who it's their commander in chief this guy who claims to evatt bone spurs got out of the vietnam war because of it he couldn't couldn't even do one day of boot camp to be a private and i'll speak to this every enlisted guy in the nation who's ever gone to boot camp the i i don't care what service it is the first night at boot camp there's one person there who will break down wet their pants cry for their mom and throw tantrums the authorities will come in in the middle of the night though remove that person you'll never hear or see or whatever what happened to them donald trump would would've been that person how jesse jesse via the the spoiler ventura has our calling him yeah he's i think that's right now skin the i think that jesse it's amazing how many moves of the ventura for governor of minnesota campaign pain trump kinda stole yeah i mean it was it was you know ventura was sort of building on ross perot and the trump was sort of building jesse just hearing jesse's voiced by the way i just i am i'm i miss him so much as a color commentator o. k. in professional wrestling yeah i mean truly one of an did he have an XFL if that's what the job is at anthony truly one of them if i'm if i'm doing my power rankings madden is number one and then we get down but i still might have jesse ventura had tony romo i'm not i'm not quite willing to to coronate romo oh just get time to do david shoemaker guesses a strain fund headline love seeing that sigh and that resigned science person my god it's beautiful last tuesday's headline was to be or not to be in this comes to us from j. free boo and derek burke it's not a headline david okay it's a tweet but all the same rules apply are you familiar with escape the pina colada song of of course okay well dave brown who is the deputy defence editor of politico all of america's great comedians get their start as deputy defence at cacao has changed some of the familiar lira gifts to reflect donald trump's ukraine scandal okay i'm very into this this david what are the refashioned pina colada song lyrics and we're just looking for like two lines like looking at the chorus is if you like pina coladas doesn't get caught in the rain exactly oh you're the rain if you like yeah you're the rain and ukraine is sitting right there if you like guys are doing great great if you nail that first part of it pina coladas if you like the bill back on yacht rock my god this is incredible pina subpoena ah if you if you subpoena the biden's if you subpoena it you guys don't if you like subpoena coladas and getting caught in ukraine and notice he didn't say though ukraine yeah god i could just like we can we can we just briefly turn into a serious channel john just let this play us out because one of my favorites tab this is incredible he is david shoemaker i'm brian curtis research by chris omega production magic and groovy tunes by jim cunningham cunningham we're back when are we back we're back tuesday bright and early i think that's right with more lukewarm takes about the media and delicious slurpy drink see then david z. later brian david david brian i get a good look at you always just like wow all this does is just absolutely suck i have no idea how to take that that's fantastic that that just to me is like whoa whoa whoa whoa hey hey kids might be watching this wasting everyone's time and energy on bullshit i'll caps that events would that is punishable by death thank god am i right about putting his fanny fanny pack i don't even really want to hear your memories is the hardest one to listen to in right off as being the work of a madman one thousand percent agree if people are probably just