5 Episode results for "Eccles Theater"
What to expect in bonus episodes of Cold
"The house is gone, quiet. The cat curled up in my lap quit purring quite a while ago. I should be in bed myself, but I can't sleep. There's too much work to do. The only light comes from the blue white clo- of my MAC book screen. I tap the space bar to start playback on the next clip. The next hour of Josh Powell's audio journals. All these notes everywhere, and here's one in my closet in my office. You are perfect TIMMY, I think that is credible. To think that one sweet girl with think that I was perfect. It means a lot to me. She truly gave credits compliment ever. I'm Dave Cali the host of cold. I spent a lot of nights like this head down headphones on listening to Josh describe his relationship with his eventual wife, Susan Cox, I think that will continue to be best friends. And. Infatuated in love. With each other taking notes transcribing organizing writing pausing to glance at the clock to rouse, the cat by scratching her behind the years. Trying to maintain my own mental and emotional help in the middle of a disturbing story. Five percent of time only making other happy. And then every once in a while. Have our? I should've love her. It seems a bit absurd to say this now after crafting eighteen episodes about the Susan Powell case that some of the material didn't make the first cut, but that's the truth. So what to do with it? Well since wrapping production on the first season of cold. I've kind of gone back to the well the result three bonus episodes. They're available now at one three dot com slash plus that's p l u s it costs five dollars a month. And it's a way you can help support future investigations by the cold team. The first bonus includes more never before her. Josh Powell audio journal entries along with commentary from clinical psychologist, mad Woolley. And so he's just I think found the ideal in his mind person to feed his narcissistic self perception that he's special and deserves to be treated that way for the second bonus US marshal, Daryl Spencer. Offers an insider perspective on the Powell family complete with audio from a hidden camera recording he made while interviewing Steve Powell. Yeah. Lost his job. Susan's? Susan, I guess. House. Hangar letting people underestimated darkness and the demons that were Josh. And Steve in the third we visit a location of some mystery nutty putty cave to explore the question could Josh have disposed of his wife's body here. The only way to get through the first part of the opening which is ten or fifteen feet long is to either go flat on your back or flat on your stomach and just kinda move your way through carefully like that. And then the cave opens up into some are larger caverns these three bonus episodes of cold are available exclusively with us absorption to wonder plus again, five dollars a month gets you access along with the complete first season of cold ad free to sign up. Learn more go to WWW dot wondering dot com slash plus. That's wondering dot com slash P. L US. Oh, and one other thing if you live in or near Utah cold is hosting a live event on may six. Eighteenth at the Eccles theater in Salt Lake City. We plan on celebrating Susan and her boys as well. As continuing the conversation around domestic abuse during this special evening and all share the story behind the podcast. You'll also have a chance to ask questions of our special guests, you can get tickets by going to live at the Eccles dot com. And again, it's another way to support future seasons of cold. A portion of all ticket. Proceeds will benefit the Utah domestic violence coalition. I hope to see you there.
"The In Crowd" (with Brooke Thomas)
"Hello and welcome to hysteria time aaron ryan this week elyssa master monaco calls into talk about why unwanted ivanka keeps popping up everywhere then journalist brooke thomas joins me in studio along with jen tran in great part to discuss fitting in standing out and learning to brace yourself end as always are hills before we get started this week little bit of housekeeping if you wanna submit a hill that you will die on you could record a thirty second voice memo on your phone and send it to her email address hysteria crooked dot com you can also send other correspondence there caroline and i both checketts those the love notes and hate mail to are individuals dresses please second item on the housekeeping agenda we're going to bring back the old featured dude you ask for a weekly bonuses video content so you get the cs podcast with their faces please send us any in all of your questions whether it be about the twenty twenty race ivanka shenanigans for are weekly skincare routine although that's pretty boring and just put lotion on my face cinder listener questions to hysteria at crooked dot com or if you want you can tweet at me i'm gonna put out a call on twitter as well syria merge is out finally you guys have all been waiting for very long time and you guys are all very excited about the muscle tank is the top selling items this week and the cook it store so you can keep up on hysteria march at the merge store by going to store dot crooked dot com there's more stuff available and there will be new items also like throughout the year keep you updated on that more housekeeping i'm going to be on tour with pod save america i'm going to be in denver on july seventeenth at the bell so theater in salt lake city on july eighteenth fc eccles theater stand i've never been to utah before so i'm pretty excited but i'm gonna get the kickoff utah on my list of states but i haven't visited excited to join you guys july seventeenth in denver slight eighteenth in salt lake city the shows because me to make sure come see us live get tickets at crooked dot com slash events finally finally i'm trying a new thing where i give a shout out to a special group of listeners this week wanna give a shout out to people who still have to work on holidays i spent new year's day one year when i was in high school giving bass at a nursing home not more fun i actually worked there but it was not the greatest new year's day of my life so i can't say i feel your exact paying all these people who currently have to work on the fourth of july and other holidays but i have felt similar pain and i'm like you fellas which hello hello well is that what's weird though is super weird it's just picked up in there was no buddy but yet here i am yeah here you are thank goodness i was going idle hall hello line planned i'd like pre written it gonna be like oh it's hashtag most wanted elyssa but i know i was i was shocked by the silence and now it just totally through my whole day off so we're gonna elements okay well well take it from here okay good thank you for being understanding politically or let's let's get into it i wanna talk about hashtag unwanted ivanka the be a photo shopping name that i accidentally started on sunday cy had writer's block 'em so here's would start elyssa use you saw i'm assuming yes people out shopping ivanka trump into historical moments where she didn't belong in wasn't wanted and would be useful that was something but i suggested people do in response to the conversation at the g twenty where we see ivanka trying to interject into a conversation between actual world leaders who have diplomatic experience an christine lagarde had amassed kind of casting a very obvious aspersions with her face on ivanka why don't you think before we started before we really get into like the photo things in the meaning of it and what actually happened what did you think about ivanka at the at the g twenty i mean it's fucking appalling you know i mean like if you look back and i guess for me i put everything in the context of like when i was there more just generally before donald trump was president i mean any v administration supply i mean she put herself my my favorite part aside from the christine the guard side i windows righteous would win so every summit every gene twining g eight nato excetera there's always what they call the family photo photo which is the photo of all the leader standing up straight you know in front of whatever logo it is that they're you know meeting for vonk joined the photo and she's not the president and she just took her place front and center i mean she wasn't even like in the wings you know like i was drink tap recital and she was like right in the middle and i guess it's just like this a polling you you hope you wonder you think that at some point someone has some self awareness writing like she knows she's not fit for the job she has the chief totally unqualified she have the job because of her dad which is the same way she got her like failing accessories line you know because her dad and she would have these self awareness to be like you know what i mean i i came to the summit but i'm at least gonna step to the side but there's actually no no benefit of the doubt they could ever be given to her now because she legitimately per this trip at her actions believe she belongs there right in some of the response to it i think the reason that the meme kind of took off off and it sort of took on a might have been on it took on a mind of its own i believe it took off because a lot of people had this lowest roaming shot in the back of their mind like what the fuck is she doing there why is she there she's never once run for any elected office but she hasn't been confirmed by the senate for her job she shouldn't even have a security clearance to be on if she has no diplomatic experience so people were frustrated be for real reasons that ivanka you know was there like there there legitimate reasons but one of the things that happens as as tens happen on line with the means is that the longer the the more trended the more i saw people attacking ivanka is presents therefore like bullshit reason you were like and i and i'm never going to defend i'm not defending ivanka i'm trying to defend argument against ivanka and by doing sex this shit and saying massaging as or violent things about her we undermine the entire valid argument that we absolutely so i was noticing that there is some people photo shopping her i mean look i don't think that it is impossible for a woman to care about the way that she looks to be compliant client with patriarchal standard standards of beauty because that's how you get into meetings and also be somebody who's worth being taken seriously i don't think those two things are mutually exclusive and i agree when people attack ivanka for being pretty or fashionable that is sort of what they're doing yes she still gets to address how she wants to fucking dress and like of all the things i'm gonna criticize her for that's not gonna be a she should have been a little bit more respectful of occasion i think it's it's not even just about the way that she dresses it is it's the way that she was trying to win sort of self and conversations in front of the photo and everything and i just i i'm glad the meme took off and i hope that every time she's in a story from now on people use the hashtag unwanted ivanka because she has never ever been an elected official u s an hopefully she never will be hopefully i mean but that is the thing you know they're all those rumors that she thinks she's going to be the first female president and you're like she can't really think that and then you see her performance the g twenty and you're like oh my god she really does think that like right does think being rich which is another thing right being rich if they really are is the qualification for access access and status and to be and to participate and things like this right it's not you actually give a shit about what's happening in the world or have like an advanced degree makes you understand what's going on in the world it's just like they're rich of course she can do it 'cause she's rach right and she's pretty she's rich and she was interesting to me about the ivanka at the g twenty moment was her kind of planet ivanka general demeanor where she's just completely divorced from reality oh this what's happening at the same time then we have a full on crisis at the border where children are still being kept in cages where people are living in on humane unsafe unsanitary conditions and that's her father's administration is doing andrei great she has the gall to stand there smiling pretend like she some sort of advocate for women or for any people at all which it just it just drives me nuts 'em one more question so listen one of the one of the critiques i got from people who had a lot of misspellings and their bios was that that i must be people who are using their unwanted among the hashtag must be jealous of her what do you say to people who accused critics ivanka being jealous on okay so i'm a critic so if someone wants to call me jealous i would just say that i'm not jealous that i think that people are critical of her because of the hubris andy exactly like what i was just saying that she just all of these people for so long who worked in the government had some sort of special qualification right and it just it she is tiptoeing through fields of land mines with no qualifications what so ever end with also like there are ways i guess she could have demonstrated some sort of like curiosity towards learning more but mostly everything she does in the show right like you never hear stories about how like a vonk guy went into some bad neighborhoods and tried to understand maybe why michelle obama was concerned about food deserts you know she just says and does things and she just there's there's no there's no there there no i think that's why people are critical of her no cause they're jealous of her long blond hair right and here's another thought i as you were talking just now i thought she if here's here's the best case scenario is that in she's not really actually involved in the diplomatic negotiations going on and she was just there for the photo op she wasn't actually in they're trying to use her lack of skill to work on something that she doesn't really care about the outcome of because she's rich and she's always gonna you know quote unquote rich and she's always gonna be rich 'em i think that you just might have been there for the picture because in the world of the trump's to appear to be something is to be something v appear including rate us is success fast and it's all artifice and she's just like the thing is it's like girl then just stop with the photo like take you're g twenty photo stand next year dad split their hair do what you're gonna do but like go try try to like con boat bomb you know president matt krohn at chris even the guard it's like no one day when i guess that's my point that isn't it that is you're deal that is a really good point elyssa on we ever apathy ivanka conversation but i want okay i want it to debut a brand new news feature or calling it toast or roast an this is the part of the news where a lesson i pick a story that we didn't spend most of the news talking about that we want their praise or that we want to roast so you know a girl toaster roast elyssa are you offering a toast orosa this weekend who are you offering it to i am offering eighty rose to of the eric swallow well oh this is out of left field elyssa going on you because you know what i was thinking about like obviously the debates has been a nonstop source of conversation for the last week right and i kept thinking about you know the people who fell into the background who blended in who were wallflowers the people who were far too aggressive like that's just low hanging fruit right my my roast just was like in the same way that i would criticize like why is ivanka some of these events right of the twenty some people running for president michael all five some of them to be up there and think they have the experience to leave the country other than the fact they're smarter than donald trump which aaron mean to you and i could also be at the debate okay let's just let's just be honest about that that would be fun to be we would brings so much flare i thought oh good it would be very fun swells only contribution was to have some sort of form of like uncontrollable tech where he shouted next generation and pass the torch and came up with like fairly convoluted ways to work this sentence is like i was watching him and i was like oh my god is this is seinfeld episode like is he larry david at the corner and then i was like no because bernie sanders of larry david so so he to me was just like he wasn't the one person i mean you know man like another great you know social media moment that ensued after she wasn't there debate which were all the tactical moments she truly appeared in in history like like almost like forrest gump like marrying a elizabeth taylor at neverland with a single back then they eat their presence pretty magical yeah no mine is just a roast roast of eric swallow well he needs to come up with a better reason to be on that stage is clinging to the one percent that's keeping him there and it's like if you're just doing this for a cabinet position there are better ways yup i accept that roast okay i think you have a toast offer very short toast i'm gonna offer a toast to supreme court justice elena kagan i'll do it who last week a lot of supreme court decisions came down because it's the final week of june and alina kagan in was assigned writing import some important dissenting opinions especially on the gerrymandering case kagan wrote who descent on that and it was a fiery descent in the tradition of ruth baiter ginsburg end she seems now to be allowed loud liberal voice on the court that we all saw in ruth baiter ginsburg and we see injustice soda my or end it's exciting it's it's one little exciting glimmer in a in a dark world of the supreme court is only indicating kind of coming her own and being more of a vocal a progressive voice you wanna know fun fact about lena kagan absolutely she married me god yes david and i did not have a wedding we were lucky in atlanta kagan offered to marry us and she had like decorations in her office for us and i think there was an orchid and they had champagne and it was the nicest thing anyone could have done for me and so i love her for a very special reason oh that's so sweet and you are our wedding dula jesus i know girl i might come up for could come up with any idea for any occasion machine you truly are machine semester monaco thank you so much recalling this week and i can't wait to talk to you next i talk to you next by stick around there'll be more hysteria after the break this episode of hysteria is brought to you by sun basket no matter lifestyle sun basket caters to your kind of healthy they were delicious meal plans like paleo car conscious glutenfree mediterranean diabetes friendly envy and plus quick and easy recipes you're gonna enjoy dinner full of organic produce and clean ingredients in his little as fifteen minutes i don't even know what all of these picky types of eating are yeah no i i don't mean i don't either i don't like those all sounds incredible they sound like things i should get everybody leading we shouldn't be a blessing brand new car conscious meal plan but thirty five grams or fewer net carbs per serving man carbs i never know how much is in anything it's just so i'm a card clean are you i mean i love them you can order like non carb light stuff from some basket to i guess i could do that she a dry mouth watering sun basket dishes like healthy pod tied with rice noodles oh 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fifteen minutes go to sun basket dot com slash hysteria to get up to sixty dollars off sun basket dot com slash hysteria to learn more and get up to sixty dollars off today all right welcome back where at personal no politically which is a part of the show where we talk about things that are on our minds in in the news in in are lived and at the table first i wanna bring in these amazing woman who i have with me today first off actor comedian writer ten trend cnn it's like your christmas it is micro women's world cup is my christmas in the spirit succumb like right around pride it's just slow ever it's my favorite time of year it's you and and i watched be game yesterday together at a bar that was just packed full fan which bar village it did a great one games yeah but it was packed and it was so for this stuff on i was gonna wear my jersey today but then i was like i actually only wear that on game days i don't wanna ruin the superstition like i have like draw a line acme from holding my face in in the morning and it's like oh there's a line of this fee 'cause base base holding during the game was a ten game next up i wanna bring an actor comedian activists grace parra hey i'm finding myself i love world cup as well this is very exciting my energy guys and it's my oldest brother alex actually runs eight kids soccer league in texas and she was featured on the local news in houston yesterday he and his eldest son grant who is also player because they've had this like surge in kids who wanna play soccer horse it's like world cup time there's just like hundreds of kids in houston they're signing up for his league and he's so excited and granted my nephew without some cameras what do you think's gonna happen with the game yesterday and he was like i think it's gonna be to one usa is gonna win close he's he's a little nostradamus buki what we can we kids deer park family gets way into the very exciting it's so fun finally i wanna bring in for the first time on hysteria young turks journalism brooke thomas myself i know everybody's off tomorrow that italy let him not to celebrate are you doing anything over the holiday no i don't have any plans i'm gonna crush somebody barbecue okay haven't figured it out somebody you know or manager okay man this melody lynn mocking it'd be like pretend to know that land have you been watching the world cup i oh well i'm not okay what's working yesterday while it what's going on in the crowd over by the tv early office so i was following along with their cheers i'm gonna check twitter right after i saw the tea sipping moment a good raf yeah i'm wondering one thing i think is exciting about like the world cup the women's world cup big positive sporting events like this is that i was just kind of i mentioned this over email i think it kind of models the women's national team kind of models this new at like inclusivity in celebration of women and different types of women in all of them working together on one thing and it reminded me of ten at the top of the were talking about today you you brought up something really interesting about inclusivity belonging not belonging in had her in normativity yeah end 'em i would love to hear you talk a little bit more about that i just will cause from a very young age you're just taught from media and from parents and siblings that but there's a very specific way that you're supposed to be in life and for me that was like being straight was the ultimate goal for the longest time and i was telling you this yesterday that for the longest time i thought that i was gonna have to marry my cousin because he was only vietnamese boy that i knew in my brain is like a kid i was putting together together head on her maturity and i'm like guys like i only saw vietnamese opposite gender coupling my brands like it's gotta be my cousin right that's the only possibility but i really was i like really tried to be straight for a very long time in state in the closet until i was in college because i really thought that it was so wrong be out yeah and that that i just hadn't met the right guy like did all those things where i was trying to explain away my feelings unlike attraction towards women because i had never seen that in front of me or seen it in the media or seen it from people but i knew so i i really for a very long time tried to like meet those hetero normative goals like all throughout college tried to date men war high heels in high waisted skirts like it just i know that's like various centralizing but just like presentation only i tried so hard to like fit a very high sam ideal of what women are supposed to act and look like come back and do other women in the gay community have similar experiences yeah like all of my dear friends and my partner we talk about it all the time about like how we tried for very long like big chunks of are live to be straight yes and it was like it was about fitting in where you when you did come out as gay yeah did you experience alienation from people that you expected to like dislike you were reject you know and that was the thing like i was so afraid all of my closest friends in college and i think this is when i was really trying i find myself and they were all straight and like we were all very there's like the party scene in the hookup scene when you're in college and so much of our conversations where based around like what guy did you go home where they're like who were you like who who's the guy an and i remember being so afraid to come out to all these women and when i did they were like oh great one time i remember coming home and i was kind of like crying and my dear friend was like oh my god are you located you have too much wine and i just turned her like no i have too much wind i'm gay so now that is i like inside joke like did you have too much i think that that's like a really interesting point that as a straight woman that's not something i've ever had to pretend to fit in but i think everybody here has had something they've been like i'm trying to pass into a world that i don't feel like i belong in and i'm going to pretend to fit in 'em brooke have you had anything in your life that you like tried to pass into something that yeah i think i want it to be white until i was like twelve or at least like a lighter skinned black women which is weird because i don't think i don't ever remember having like these moments where it's like i i want to be a white person like i don't think i don't ever remember like wishing into the mirror as a child you know but i do i don't think that i knew how cool it was to be a little black girl and like i know now own kind of like what i learned inexperience in college a group in skokie oklahoma which is really white country town in oklahoma income yes okay it's like tulsa were kind of like a simple yes i believe there for two years hamper texas and then i lived there for two years yeah my my dad is retired now he's an engineer my sweet made in college her name was her name she was from tampa no okay we're gonna find out if i were if i get featuring you to discovering that you're actually cousin and i don't have to get him but yeah i think i it's so weird i and i had really like my my grandmother is really really light skinned my all my siblings my mom an i grew up around people who i think they made an extra effort to be like no oh you're skin is so beautiful and all these telling me since i was a child them so beautiful but that wasn't enough i think to push back on and it would society and kind of just like what i would run all my friends were these white girls and so i want it to be really skinny i remember like i want it to be like shape like paris hilton and i remember like not having like being curvy not in in my way you know like from the fourth grade i don't ever remember wearing makeup or become bra i don't ever remember that and like did that happen where were we were like a slow progression i don't remember that i remember going from undershirts to like a double dear wearing wrong five four but i i i so i remember like wanting to be shaped like simpler and warning different hair and oh yeah if it would be easier to deal with this in certain things people would say in just wanting to you know living a certain part of town just so many different things that that's so weird now name but you know what i don't know what it i think maybe just like slightly growing out of it in high school but i remember like being like it being like so self affirming like going to college college and i did go to p w i went to a predominantly white institution but there were so many black women there who were beautiful and who just were seeing if it was normal it was normalized i wasn't one of two anymore end 'em that that was cool from the change in my group of friends change all of a sudden instead of having you know group of ten girls in nine of them away and then me there nine of them were black and it was just a different experience and i'm so different as an adult everybody's different as an adult then they are as a child but i think i'm so different in that way then i was a child which is so weird because they didn't have had a family around me were constantly pushing what i it's still i have to grow out of i dunno sent minute for what people are telling you'd actually thinking yeah we got especially if like when you're a kid the most important thing to you is like what's going on at school because you know you're i mean if you have a good family you know your family's gonna love you like a zero effort set you could be a total piece the shit and you're family still gonna love you but at school like they action they don't have to love you answered earn their love her to feel like you fit in is a huge is a huge deal yeah i was just thinking as you were talking about you're saying like now you think you you realize it being a black girl is really cool do think there have been cultural changes around representation of black women that have made it easier for a little black girls were growing up now so you see more it's still not enough like especially my business i spent nine years i'm kinda branching out doing all kinds of stuff but in local news like eight years solid in local news which is a very you know they talk about being non biased which nobody is not by it's what it means is like shrink your personal perspective down to what it would be if you were a rich white men andy that is how you need to tell stories on the news you know what i mean who's also a christian who don't even go straight like at who's also slim like that is how you need to tell stories in the news and they call it being non by it's crazy but i think it's gotten better i don't remember other than oprah i don't remember seeing many like dark skinned women 'em on tv in in tv still in the in the business and i mean i feel like it's still struggling mhm but i only say that is my favorite part about about this job like 'em there are little six seven eight nine year old black girls who are justice brown is me just this dark skin this man who clinton look on the tv and think oh she's pretty she's smart like this oh i wear my hair like that or that lipstick color looks good on me like i can't wear red lipstick i can wear you know what i mean things like that things that you were told me about a mandate that match like a target but you know i don't know so it's gotten better it's not good but i absolutely think it's gotten better i think that the changing me it's just been now it's something that i wanna fight for you know what i mean like how we tell stories how that's something i don't cause i still wasn't even there as far as professionally when i started in the tv business it was like okay this is what i'm supposed to be this is what i'm supposed to sound like this is what i'm supposed to talk about this is what's supposed to be normal 'em that deletes a lot of like culturally black things and now i refuse to be like that if that makes sense yeah totally grace what was your big thing that you tried to pass into well i am mexican american before long time because the word mexicans like kind of considered grocer at least in my eyes it did i tried to pass myself off as italian until i was like eight and again i've talked about this on hysteria before for people you know kids would be like part what's that mean like what are you gonna you know i presented as some thing but people don't necessarily know what end there's nothing that i couldn't i couldn't hide it you know no no what i want to but as a kid you do watch it because again like like all all like jenin and a broken mentioned you do wanna pass it's like this ideal of of you know pretty little blonde white girl which i was not so 'em yeah i pass it is a talion i just be like you know it's talion we lost spaghetti and you're like mommy i i thought one thing that struck me about this conversation that and the answer question that really was a point at which i was like i need conform it all i do is language because in my house my parents both spoke spanish but i so desperately did not want to and i so desperately did not wanna have an accident and i so desperately did not care i didn't want to know anything about spanish it took me a long time to warm up to be idea of embracing bilingualism and so to me in listening to both of you guys talk about vestiges of what you're you're still kind of getting over and elements is like what you're so so proud to serve pertain to me it's language it's like i feel like i would be so much better speaking spanish if those first few years i had just embraced what it meant to be mexican american and understand that like bilingualism is awesome so i feel like i i had a catch up a lot like i had did you learn a lot of spanish in college which is a weird way learn it you know studying abroad really helped with that which is like the widest white girl thing to say not panic by studying abroad i had a big advantage of having a family who speaks it so i could practice constantly and very grateful for that but it's still something like my three older brothers who were raised born and raised in mexico a they they know spanish way better than i do and it's because they they just have that advantage of having grown up in a place that embraces mexicans vs in the united states where that's not necessarily the case and where so many people if you can try to not be if you could pass is not mexican it's considered in you know an a plus the working against that has been tough and you know i i say that if somebody now who like we all see the news we know what it's like to you know to to see the biases it's still persist against increasingly so against a religious community 'em an end so it's tough so so you know listening to like you ladies talk about what we would pass onto younger kids it's like if we can tell kids their identities from a young age really matter and that if we could prevent as people on their platforms to be able to you know say like oh she could have been curly hair and that's awesome men like me with j lo as selena where i was finally like okay go but up until that point it wasn't even in dora the explorer when i was growing up yeah yeah yeah yeah proportionately like i even grew up in texas where there are a lot of latin americans and it's still felt like those communities were living shadows and that's not even like a you know documented versus undocumented observation is just generally hispanics felt like we were living in shadows 'em yeah and i also think like you know we've talked about this on the pod to but even the way we refer to hispanics like there's like a kind of a tone own in the way that the word mexican is is used that is is is difficult one shy away from it just doesn't feel like it's embrace but that is changing and changing yeli yeah about what you said about speaking spanish i just because i noticed that just growing up in oklahoma texas oklahoma yeah it's all like mexico and native american yeah yeah yeah and then there's like some black people but but you know and i think i did notice that and i thought about this would mean a couple of friends were having this conversation win it was such it's a big deal that pete buddha judge can speak norwegian or something and i think about like what if little mexican kids were embrace like that like when i was a kid it's so weird they put them in almost like these remedial classes like saying like you know try and teach you english in really it should be like okay actually it's really hard to learn spanish you're smarter than everyone else you're gonna learn english it's just gonna be all around you but you're gonna know two languages let's embrace it this is really cool helped the wrath of the kids out instead it's like no no put the you know every free at they're gonna go for a couple of hours in the back yeah work on their english and that's so bizarre that's in this grown men do reads it norwegian book and yeah he believes fear has taken so multicultural yeah yes yeah he's he's the like the white rainbow of multiple kids like that yeah i think that's right and the way that people prioritize multiculturalism that involves like european culture lamb vs like other nationalities ladies and i i think just listening to all three of your stories i was thinking about how there's a sort of pattern to every single one of them where it's like i reject who i am and then i learned that i like it and then i spend the rest of my life being like fucking then you ask me like you know being a kid i grew up in rural wisconsin and then i went to notre dame for college end it was the first time i really realized how many rich people there and like what rich people were i had no concept yeah really of how how rich some people were like their parents could pay fifty grand a year to send their kid they call it like and so i spent a lotta time when i was in college trying to end this isn't the same as as altering like sexuality or or race or language but i think a lot of people i tried to move within class anes to pass as like like i want it to fit in with the people were like from the boring called the sack suburbs and i want it to be somebody who passes like a rich prep school girl who'd been to a country club i'd never been glove end as i got older and got out of college i remember one day being like why would somebody polo shirts like why am i kind of do this i think that are uniqueness whether it be the place where we came from are sexuality are background or ethnicity are language all of those things i think are assets to us in so now i almost feel myself like over emphasizing the fact that like yeah we grew up with like not a ton of money an i grew up in the country in i one time my mom was like in the kitchen she goes oh my god don't go outside and i looked outside and there is a bull standing on are well like i said 'cause those things like ten you being somebody who is an out woman who is living land doing what you're doing like that's awesome like all of us are doing things that are awesome and like so i think the moment at which we all decided like standing out was a good thing is like a really important moment in every woman's life it's it's interesting because we're basically fed to you very opposite messages from a young age one is like here as you're the only one of view you're amazing like lean into who you are you're such an individual like that's amazing and special in great and then also at the same time it's like you wanna be we wanna be you wanna conform you wanna be with the group you know you hear things like no new friends gang gang just mean like crew like you feel like you have to be part of something at the same time that you're being told you need to be yourselves and those things are essentially at odds with each other it's difficult to be like i wanna be a total individual then you go down the path of like loneliness and i feel like ultimately were all just trying to combat that feeling of loneliness of course we do whatever it takes to fit in with whoever is around us 'em i don't know that ever goes away but i do think you're right that at some point we understand the unique parts of a scenic characteristic that we bring to the table double supersede whatever it takes rustic conform an end at some point it's just like natural for us to be like i can't i can't fake this anymore you know yeah i mean i feel like you've experienced well i was just i mean these embracing of uniqueness and like the things that make us are cells have also for me personally have like open doors to new communities that i feel empower that more unlike to come back to what you were saying i also wanted to i never ever explicitly said like i want it to be white bread i've but like felt that so much you realize you're doing little yeah yeah that that means that and i remember like when i first started doing comedy that i would i would probably be like i don't wanna be seen as the asian comedian like i don't want people to see me as that i want us them deceive me as like any other comedian to which is like in a ratio of like my own identity right in like in a ratio of like what makes me unique and also something that i can't like visually can't take away right and be able to like embrace that that is so exciting and also it really does it's like it opens up to like new communities and now i'm meeting more like other asian and clear asian folks and it's really fun to like be a part of a community that we have this like shared identity yeah yeah totally here's another thing though but i'm just thinking about grace's you were talking about like standing up versus fitting and we also have this message that it's like really not cool to be basic which is like yeah it's like it's great to fit in but it's also the worst of it yeah so what what to you i just was thinking about like the concept of basic like what is it what is it mean and why do you think people are being chastised for being basic what do you think basic i'm glad the word basic didn't really exists when we were kids 'cause i i think like yet basic is basically what we were all trying to be a ha just like the most you know i i always think of like i always reference kelly capacity and saved by the bell as like my ideal she i try not my going after her because she was perfect you did very excited really does not cause i i can see her in the challenge when i i don't even remember like hairstyle more journal about i remember everyone being obsessed with their but i don't remember her giving amazon right now are we doing is sexism system right now did we just sexism kelly could not remembering the sexism anyway so you're trying to sound like kelly kelly's yeah i don't wanna sound like like my family that had accents and shit and like i just didn't want you and i also want it to sound like very educated to because i felt like ben ben i would supersede the stereotypes of what it meant to be a mexican so i was like super articulate and made sure that like i was just super annoying but but i i do also remember when a coolest came out and when everybody started same light which maybe had been happening before but that was like a a a watershed moment for me where i was like oh oh pretty white girls say like i'm gonna start to incorporate that into my into my language and i and i did it didn't it was not natural it was it was not natural all but i did it because it felt like yeah that's something that's gonna make me anyway so those are probably two very kind of basic basic bitch character is and i definitely modeled myself after his base i dunno i mean i know kelly capacity wouldn't wear socks she wouldn't where we do right of me is like honoring stake here at good there i remember when i was a kid everybody had on bros shorts remember umbro her in a but yeah that's it we have free eggs but we add like brochures and like a dita's shower slides well i had a cool thing for people to wear an like you want it to where have like the right there were like a sweet spot spot in the world the basic vs individual you wanna have like the cool color of a brochure it's but not so cool but it was a weird color or like one of their habits starter jacket oh my god i i you know but not a not so weird that like the only one with that starting job right you don't wanna have a charlotte hornets one 'cause everybody has charlotte hornets but you also don't wanna have like a weird like i dunno boise state while i was just i i think the kids especially have to deal with like these two conflicting inflicting things where it's like fit in be unique yeah yeah be both of those things at once otherwise you're going to be punished is also thinking earlier in the show i talked to us about ivanka at the g twenty man about her standing out at the g twenty end 'em which just thinking about professional sitting in end like how much we have to change who we are to fit in professionally debt do any of you recall having to like change but you trust her changed the way actively yesterday or you mean like before that i i mean yeah like i mean brooke you mentioned being in local news do did you ever remember having to like change the way you dress stored so many things i think that 'em even you know when ability to really rough experience furman i just got to the point where i feel comfortable being honest about how rough it was like my first couple of days work my co anchor asked me if i had ever heard of the paper bag test because he might cry and they hired someone is dark is marketing for oh my god so right this is just a couple of years ago you know and then i remember just like we had this stylist who is awful end so mean mean like one time i like push back on something i didn't wanna where it's like no i think i think i liked the way they fits better and she was like whoa whoa whoa come down animal and i hadn't even like raise my voice oh my god an m i remember being like you know i it's not really a cool thing referred a black people those animals oh no there is a mexican person in my family i would never i would never be and it just shows awful an 'em and i remember and she's the kind of change voice when she talk to me like now you look at those hits girl a man she would do wincing this like all my life right and i asked i remember saying something to my executive producer about it and he was she's like that with everybody she's like everybody which she's not end i but okay but so anyway but so i think always changing the way draft because my body shape differently than like someone who may be just like slimmer unless curves in me and so 'em i wouldn't wear like be next dresses earn anything that showed any cleveland and or like try to have things that are not so tight because someone will look at me and another another woman same dress and say i look unprofessional i look like i'm going to the club or it's weird because i was at the point where i was like embracing more like professionally like who i am and what i wanna talk about what my responsibilities are like with my platform in on with what comes out of my mouth and things like that and they're still so many things and i feel like back to what i was saying about perspective there's so many things that affect marginalized communities that are normal so on the news and like they don't give their opinion but if to if we there's some random reason that there is is a wedding story a story about a wedding and it's men and women you're allowed to say congratulations to the happy couple you know that's i guess okay and then but if it's a gay couple you are not allowed to say that because that is you giving an opinion my guy certain things that are fax it so i don't know so i feel like you feel like delete that aspect of yourself where you're worried about that like i m run a group on facebook for black women on tv just because it my first couple of jumping only black woman in the market on air let alone you know the consultant with so i'm like getting off topic here but there's just so many things you know you have the chance of changing the way you dress changing the way you speak changing what you talk about changing like when somebody says something that's offensive if you are afraid to push back on that because it looks like the black girl is angry ends yeah got an attitude you are afraid to speak up yourself and say hey that's not cool that's not okay because then it's like oh work is sensitive or things like that so yes mhm just completely just yeah i i this is been brought up a you know in in the media i think increasingly last couple of years but as a as a writer i've been the diverse city writer in a number of comedy rooms and that is such a it's it's such a first of all like it's very obvious who the diverse city this is changing our hopefully like writers rooms are are more diverse so it's not like there's just the one token divers person in the room but a in the writers rooms that i was in when i first started writing this is probably like eight nine years ago it was just me and so there was this like unspoken oh you're only here because the network is paying for this spot and so like you don't necessarily have to speak as much because trust us like you know you're you're doing well you're you should be lucky that you're you're matters so you know if you can chime in great but we don't have any expectations of you and it's like the and that is that is such a a rough way to introduce somebody into the world of comedy writing because it is supposed to be so democratic you know everybody wing in when you have a joke in a fun moment a fun character whatever it may be but but you just feel like there's a scarlet letter on you as a diverse writer worst thing about working in a writer's room is is like and i've had only good experiences working in writer's room so the worst thing about it is that the entire industry has convinced itself it's democratic and it's the least democratic at all any kind of it's like up until a few years ago with like guys hiring their buds and they were making good tv them and their buds but it was all just like do tire do they already knew he had a work on the show is about dudes do and do stuff yeah and it's like that that was on i cannot believe anybody ever convince themselves that was like a democratic thing but i wanna go back really quickly brooke just something you talked about you touched on like are bodies as something that we feel like we need a change or just guys and i think that's a topic that has a lot to it for a lot of women 'em we are pressured to cover up but not too much or wherever tight close but not not so tight and many of you had an experience where you've been and made to feel bad about a clothing choices you made it really had nothing to do with you and everything to do with the person making the critique in one writer's room that i was in a few years ago there was another writer who thought it was funny to tell tell me how you still doing dressed when i walked into the room it's wait what do i like what he's still doing with their clothes oh an i this was six years ago that long ago thing and then he and then i got so nervous when that was thrown at me i laughed he thought it was a bit it became a room bit so every time i walked into the room he would say that for months and months i don't know what i was wearing but it was clearly something that was like a trigger for i guess he's the creator duper creepy yeah wait on a t shirt and sweats crews yeah when when i used to work at the at the second city in chicago we had a notorious like like costuming day where we would all try to figure out are outfits like a stylist would come in and like dress all of us and at the time we were in this presentation of like business casual onstage because he idea was that if we look nice onstage than like we earned the respect of the audience and then we could like you know all of are jokes were and an i tried to be very i i have kind of like a very specific gender presentation when it comes to closed but i like kind of some stuff but when it's too fem it makes me feel like i'm not myself and this woman just didn't get that end kept bringing super flow we like bo holy she shirts to me for like two onstage and i like each of us had are like all of us had a different breakdown of like this is just like be absolute worse like she couldn't in her mind envision mean anything that wasn't sam mhm and kept bringing me like slowly shirt slowly panama like a skirt and i was like no i just i want like men's like men's where styled closed and she's like i don't get what that is and i'm like unlike clothing and presentation is so important just somebody who is gender isn't like the gender identity is not as like typical yeah somebody who is not like assist hedo woman is like i guess i don't really have to think about like if someone tries to give me closed and i'm like i don't like this i don't it doesn't like it it's not something that feels like in front of my identity because i've never had to like right like that's ugly but he hasn't her i feeling right exactly but because i haven't had to have it's not like men in the heart of lakeway adolf expression my sister still don't get it sometimes when we have like very formal events is families i haven't worn addressed in like ten years maybe end it like it just blows their mind that like i would not want to wear one that just doesn't like feels like it just doesn't feel right on me yeah that should at this point this is likely oh my goodness yeah i did become comfortable with my own body like i wore a at minimize their bra mhm really high school yeah and it was like i only had one where they like be under wireless coming out of it an i had like taped it back you know that is so weird sand watch labor says more than one but now i'm like i like the way i'm she'd be like my buddy so weird about like how big my lips are like how big my breasts are like now i'm like i like my buddy and i wanna dress for what i think looks good i still don't think that should invite comments not even sometimes women do it and it's so we have the most ridiculous conversations with my friends so if i'm on the phone with my friend around face them and she's like oh you're gonna look great i love that i invite that we're friends but other it's like there were the other day i was just wearing like a crop top scorer and she was like oh look at you're chest that something i was so bad that i inherited from my mom like i wish i could see my fingernails camp in so little it's inappropriate affiliates automated yeah and i i think i wrote back don't do that but i was saying oh no don't don't be down on yourself and she was like no no just so people know that's what i'm saying i don't point out my boot let workload you know when i think she meant well but what did you do weird man and having bodies step pointed out by people that you're not on that level west something that is just like instantly makes you feel like you don't belong in whatever room you're in yeah whoever like if you're at work if your at home if you're just like randomly walking down the street and some guy says something about you but it immediately just makes you feel like the world has stopped and you're the only one and you feel terrible and you don't want people look it's yeah it's weird yeah a more appropriate things to focus on yeah he's breath yeah it's very wager veins like flashes right now i feel like ptsd like just all just all these moments in life where that's been called out like from a very young age a very young age people you know just creepy dude checking you out i mean it's it's it's it's relentless and this is something that men truly don't quite grasp grasp of what it's like to walk through life as a woman in heavy body critique by everybody around you you had a debate highlights from the time you from the time girls start to develop like i always felt bad 'em if i have a daughter i will hope that she's lucky enough that she she hits puberty about after about three quarters of her friends are done with it was like the first ones to go through it always have a hard time because they're the ones me i got a brawl when i was nine ten yeah yeah i remember don't let anything between adult bra yeah an undershirt in a similar situation where we made a bunch of white kids so like you know if yes very really hard and also like i went to private school and we had to wear white shirts ever some reason my mom brought me a bunny a bright pink bra so like everybody notice i look back and i'm like what we think i think that she said something which should be yeah like i when i would go to church with my grandma like i get it i'm dressing for my grandmother in well yeah and that's fine it's my grandma you know what i mean but other than that i wonder where what i want where i want yeah and that's it i i like i always say like if i have a little girl i want her if she wants were a little short shorts that's fine because of their baby leg yeah yeah and there's nothing sexual about about it and write a fix the people around her right eye thera baby legs right don't you know that's true i mean some people think dress codes in high schools and middle schools for little girls yeah weird and overtly sexual ahah and they and i think that it's just it like you said deserve a child's a the child's body man it's a non sexual about that right and it's not on the child to to dress a certain well but those like i do like just reinforcing hetero normativity of is like certain bodies being presented in certain ways are the expectations of like straight culture that grow a female body is inherently sexual to yeah boys in that if you percent you're female body the boys will be distracted and you know what if men are so great and running shit then why can't they handle yoga pants or older yeah right it's like come on guys you could be the people that are best fit to run almost every fortune five hundred company in world government or could be people were driven bat shit insane by the shape of a but you can't climb coast he can't be both still a ban on sleeveless dress is for women in a bit like as part of the white house correspondents i don't think you could sit in the press room with a sleeveless stress on well marmot what are the white house general rules may women which means that is very clear we should have a little others a shoulder was michelle obama though did like a lot and i so much progress by presenting a woman who is confident in her body and who showed like she showed shoulder all the time and i always i like i mean we don't have that now obviously in the white house but like i do remember being like yes this is amazing and she's in sexy woman to somebody who is not suppressing pressing her sexuality by any means but she's professional and she looks beautiful and the the wardrobe that she's presenting is also well thought out i like that too because on the flip side i think a lot of us feel so suppress it were just like well fuck it i'll just where like you know yet t shirt and like leggings i don't care because we get scared about what the parameters in parameters are yeah i think we need more of that in in all industries not just in politics and i'm so glad that her visibility was as prominent as it was really did showcased women like show the shoulders be professional in home they'll be sexy that's a good thing hang mhm yeah i totally agree i also thinking back to like the closest thing i think i was the opposite of you guys i was a late bloomer and like intil my senior year of high school i was just like this tiny little thing and it was i i felt kind of pressure on the other side where it's like all these other girls get the dress like sexy enroll i wanna be able to like i wouldn't be able to like where some dress and have it like look cute and stuff and not just be a pancake in it was a it was like on the other side of it because it's like now once you are a girl who is starting to develop then you now you have to dress like an adult woman because we're gonna look at you like an adult woman end if you're the only one who doesn't look like an adult woman then there's something like silly about that which is like another alienating i i was i was the same way still waiting for them to come in the end but i really i remember buying my first like water bra why i will yeah yeah yeah because i want it so 'cause in my brain is like v attention of boys is the ultimate goal and like is the flight where you'll find happiness unpopularity end like social security in social like cachet yeah and so i bought a water but i remember going to victoria secret getting a lot of broad getting a deep cuts shirt from wet seal because it was like the first mixer in middle school and i was like you saw me during the day with a flat jasmine you're gonna see me up as dan is about how did go i mean not how you met her house that is the her cousin matt murray okay well ladies we have to wrap this portion of the conversation up this is so great brooke thanks for dropping by we're gonna take a break when we come back the hillsdale dialogue is brought to you by quip tacking you toiletries somehow always involves a delicate game of stacking in space hacking really does it yeah yeah i guess now with the like limits of liquids and limits of liquids everyone no one wants to check their bags anymore yeah it's it's it's bad is a delicate game it is a delicate game that's why quip electric toothbrushes work just as well at home as they do on the go the compact and wireless designed talks easily in the corner drew carey on or you're back pocket if you're just 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hysteria right now you can get your first refill pack for free that's your first refill pack for free at g e t q u i p dot com slash hysteria josh were back we've gotten to the part of the show where we take adamant stances about things don't really matter it's the hills will die and let's get started with art listener he'll caroline you wanna fire it up high hysteria this is a response to the listeners and wearing socks in bed is not an indicator of a serial killer respectfully disagree austin but distrusting number off the top of their it's harsh but grow man world mourns talk in my bed and rumor where am i lose telling me this officials have any evidence however relations between those who were socks in bed and those who arrested for too long a jewish in and i'm not mind machining its first ones you want an thing around to wear socks bundy oh my god bangor of a hell all i would rather fury's my ass out and wear socks and better things disgust people knew socks on like bad sucks but you don't you should the ones you were all people this got people who are dirty socks somebody knows people exist in people who scored the catch up all over the fries toilet paper on upside down all of you gotta go gotta go i don't even like growth period even if they're like fresh and clean and you're diverting well let me again be the descent and we go where i grew up it was very very cold and the house i grew up in a very like drafty old farmhouse an reheated it with the woodstove that was in the basement in my room with the opposite upstairs corner of the house as the stove so i spent my childhood basically in a cave of blankets like when i went to sleep because it was so cold during the winter socks were a part of socks in bed were part of like staying warm at night because it was like forty degrees but have you have you had yourself of the steelers have many more saturday right dachshund socks embed is a necessity yes yeah like we really winky with like a night laughing been laying in bed is also something you do like when you were sick and when you have like when you're oscillating between like fever andrew you're not a normal human 'cause you're body temperatures still cold that's fine too so but i don't want it when i'm healthy feelings but yeah i only know aaron like anything saying when i'm sleeping now nothing nothing but i do believe it is scientifically proven that but have you been breastfed for too long that shit so true larry what activity by surprise in 'cause i don't have any evidence what's coming up like leo problem on his spirit of the hill i all right okay let's move on i'm gonna go first first is a mind the fourth of july related hill i do like the fourth of july i like it i think it's a fun fun holiday i have mixed feelings about america in general but i like the fourth of july but that being said people who set off fireworks nights that are not be actual fourth of july are dick fourth of july is and i and i'm saying this is somebody who now for the first time i have a step dog now marrying into having a dog and being around a dog all the time i'm more aware of like the needs of dogs and dog owners end very scary the ducks and i think but it's it's fair for people who wanna set off fireworks and dog owners to be prepared for this is the night that the fireworks are gonna be set off my dog is afraid of getting the thunder shirt and put him in the basement you know whatever but if there's like five nights kind of scattered around the fourth of july it's really rude to people who have pets that get afraid of fireworks it's really rude to people who are just trying to sleep yeah it's really real who are who are maybe maybe grew up in a part of the country where guns around in you you think you hear fireworks and you're still like the deer season and you know later bowl don't set off fireworks nights they're not the fourth of july i apply yeah yeah thank you thank you thank you okay let's let's let's go to grace next a okay so this past weekend 'em niles surprise me with a trip the catalina island which was lovely and beautiful we had a great time on the were walking around at night and there was this ghost tour and i am gonna die out is that ghost tours are scam and it angers me because i like ghost and i wanna go and go and we need to be goes through that's not a scam i want it real bad i want a real real bad because i love i love i love it so much and i walk in and it was basically this like sort of pseudo god's teen like she was maybe sixteen leading this golf tour of all these tours to looks real excited and they had their little pamphlets with like where you know sean then had been bareheaded or whatever near the island and i was like i know this is this is dan but i don't wanna start a ghost tour unless you know they're both unless you could show to me as a tourist to wants a ghost tour 'cause i'm not taking it anymore that what what would be a non scamming ghost or do you have you been on one never know how good is that if you stuck around until the end of that you would have like the girl would have been like i'll be right back and then you just wait there for a really long time and then a man walks out and you're like hey did you see the girl and he's like girl there's not been a girl and john john you go she thought i'd be really great i would love that love that they've been the guy tour guide no no rain i really i agree i agree that now i'm gonna put out to our listeners if there is an awesome goes to where they need to know in any city anywhere in the world let me know because i am a sucker for that shit i love like loving late inflows okay let's hear from jim okay i've already said it and we've talked about it today but you know it comes once every four years i need everyone to watch the usa women's national soccer sunday at eight am is the championship game this team is amazing they have been role models and they also just like openly dislike this administration which i think is so great to use their platform for so everyone please if you're into sports in if you're not into sports watch the women's world cup this sunday it's just so fun so fun to watch yeah and they're so good at there at the top of their sport and end they are are fun to look at to i'm not gonna say are fawning yeah there's also another thing that's really exciting about it and you and i've talked about this in is that like women's soccer around the world is getting really excited really fun to see like all these really good team usa is not the only team in the game if there's like a bunch of teams that are that are great play sweetener the netherlands so we're gonna find out today and is coming back or any so meghan is coming back at you had a little bit of a hamstring injury but she's day today in feeling good about this women's world cup to is like i found a trend of like dude discovering women's sports i will have like straight dude friends who i haven't talked to in like this this is fun where the fucking view ben horse this is fun yeah they're just like humans being the best at their physical sport yeah it's great heart agree all die and that he'll tell you who are it brett's bring us home okay listen i like dogs them love dogs 'em if you disagree with me on this i don't care okay that should be a crime of at work we have a kitchen that is stocked with food bowls plates cubs mugs great i if i don't eat breakfast at home some days i go to work now have oatmeal one day i walk into work this just happened this is a big deal i'm like really is hard on my hard work end one of my good friends at work he has a dog named carl i love carl so i've been down i'm excited to see carl i've been down and i wait this carl is drinking water out of the bowl eight oatmeal out of the day before and the giants going on we're the people who bring their dog and then i just see it everywhere i see a laugh at at maitland dr drew water out of somebody's stock is looking at a head in the jar licking water out of it and then like every other non white person is like yeah this happened my friend sophie and all the people at work you monster me no i don't care if it's not okay okay end my friends sophie she she is taiwanese and she was like yeah that why do you think i i give all the mugs and extra wash before you know y'all but dishwashers work i don't care first of all if you wanna share an ice cream cone with their dog that is on you i don't wanna hear about it that's when you know you're is you want to be the type of criminal shares the plate with your dog ate your home that's fine but at work i feel like it's disrespectful haley scores his community property i don't let dog's look me in the face i don't care forget you're dishwasher because you know what dogs actually eat poop is how what science is told you that their mouths are cleaner they eat poop no no dishwashers that powerful and if somebody toilet bowl in the dishwasher you wouldn't eat out of it okay you're dog's mouth of the toilet bowl right about a dog dog in addition to the human eye one hundred yeah he die on the hill with i love poll on twitter has these monsters monsters okay guys i'm gonna be the only only white person and i say that i would never used community property for a dog but i have like really loosened up my my like policy unlike face looking for the cause he just like won't miller now i know he might i like i like touching nose to nose yeah q i like hugging daughter but like i don't think are tongue should touch ari i have a question how do feel about sleeping with dogs in the bed not not on the bed and i totally respect but some people think that's gross 'cause dogs there be putting her shoes undercover yeah i loved my dog so much that i would let her get in the bed under the covers and i thought it looked really cute and she's under the covers yeah so i'm not perfect when we were in sharing ice cream cone league match both the dog the dog like sleeps physically on me yeah i haven't bothered like i have a very like a give awful lot of body heat i don't know if it's like very freakish give up a lot of body heat and the dog is just like a heat miser he's yeah save on me my cat climbs under when the cat in the dog don't leave together they had the duck separately but my cat loves the climate under the covers and sleep next me for some reason it's not as weird have the cat do it as it is to have a dog yeah yeah doesn't go outside yeah and she's you know she's not like eating the ass of other don't know a lot of time cleaning her own ass with her mouth that is true but i would i buy whole been an i when i see it every day doesn't bother okay well please please everybody who dog sled butthole what a good place at mad rub thank you so much you're dropping by this great great thank you for coming by today and thanks to a semester monica recalling in there will be more hysteria next week planet hysteria is a product of media caroline wrestling is a producer are editor acerra beret and kyle side windows are sound engineer and things are digital team not milk kony and an illogical for production support teacher we any gun among the main
Sports and Entertainment Host Ben Lyons
"Great news. There's a quick way. You can save money. Switch to Geico. Geico could help you get great coverage at a great price. And it only takes fifteen minutes to see if you could save fifteen percent or more on car insurance. Go to Geico dot com today and see how much you could save. All right. So today on be honest. My guests as you can see right here host to show called mostly football on complex in. Yahoo sports. You also, I think most importantly that people might know you cover red carpets for years. So you rubbed elbows with some Hollywood elite. It's been lions. And so I'm so glad he stopped by our little chef. So you're gonna bring me on for sort of mid season. Check in on the state of the Lakers. Oh, I'm getting ready to that. I get. Right. If it let's first start off with your your Knicks. Okay. Dumpster fire where to go to go, but up he's okay. So listen all star weekend. How confident are you that Cairo and Katie or heading to New York? How confident am I am a Knicks fan confidence? Went out the window to miss that figur- all carry you. They do come. They're gonna wind up winning forty four games. Right. And that's the way this movie plays out. I don't know. We've really been through the wringer Super Bowl weekend was emotional because porzingas news. He was the last Jedi. He was our only hope now I've moved on. I realized he missed one hundred games his first three years and his only played one game in the month of April and his entire NBA career. So I'm at peace with now moving forward. Yeah. Does that include Kyran, Katie hope? So be a lot of fun. I mean kyri made a better movie than k d did. Okay. Shell tone, call drew. So we'll see what happens but nowhere to go. But up for most losses in the league since two thousand Kerry nowhere to go, but up how do you feel about painting art of taking what they're doing? Currently the Knicks is for a long time. They weren't trying to lose on purpose. They were trying to win and they lost. When you when you go all in with joke him knowing Derrick rose, and you try and win with mellow, and then you lose that's the worst. This is this been fun to watch young players try and find their way Alonzo tree. It's actually a great story. Say Mitchell Robinson. So as far as the taking goes, you know, as long as it's not today's of Michael dole EAC, and Shandon Anderson and Howard is the dark times at the garden. Anything's better mostly everyone right now listening and watching and saying who question Mark question marketing myself, yes, they're like wrong fella Harrington. Do. All right. So let's turn to that other organization that is just as important in the NBA. And that is the Lakers way more important. I talk about what how do you feel what the pelicans like how badly Jerry? I'm so excited to show especially this time of year with what's going on with this Laker season. So glad we didn't do this back in. Totally different tasks. It's really it's really incredible. What's going on with your New Orleans franchise in that city that hasn't really come out and supported the NBA in a big way. They're not the way they get behind the saints or even LSU tuned extent. It's awkward every night is weird. Now in these is going to play a lot play. Well, he's not gonna play you'd like how poorly run is the franchise. I mean, look at what they did to the Lakers. I me I mean seriously. They're leaking the information of who's being traded with the Lakers. Yeah. When the Lakers, they did where the Lakers Lakers Coon steal, the NBA relevancy, and then wake up after the trade out, by the way is still at ten seal. Anyone surprise surprise irony? Suicides didn't work out. Davis wanted out. He wanted to come to the Lakers and the pelicans sabotage did they know the contract to be New Orleans for certain amount of time. And this is unprecedented. The NBA where he's going all in on a tray. Request like to trading deadlines in advance. Okay. Can you question jokes aside Kerry? Yeah. There's there's no win for the player. Forget the organization for no windbreakers, forget the league. There's no in France. And he David why is he doesn't want to be there? So the fan base. There is not going to accept whatever reason he comes up with for why he doesn't want to be there and any other profession on earth. If you want to change scenery and work with different co workers and your family, and you can and you're in fact, celebrated when you do how many going away parties if we had for people that in our lives say you got a new job. I didn't know that competitor. Oh my God. Fancy clothes and go advocate for you. That's if you're mellow, and you ask for trade, and they do it cripples a franchise when you went from Denver to New York, if you're LeBron and you want to do it. They burn your jersey. If you're here when it's not fair kill win. So we'll see what happens number one pick and Kevin Knox for and Frank for a D New York to Cairo. Outta here. Hi, cats over. No, okay. A few more questions because I'm pouting. Okay. I do want to talk about this this series. I do believe what is happening. And I need you to take away all your Nick phantom and look at this through an objective lens. Do we believe there is an I'm not even going to go with the word conspiracy. But there there are those who do not want to see the Lakers franchise do well within the league for several reasons. One just because they didn't like the relevancy of the dominance. They had back in the day to rob Pelinka former agent now in charge of the Lakers he had his own bit of hate coming into the situation because he was one of the most powerful agents in the league. And then people just say LeBron general, so you take all this separate hate you put it together. I mean, it it's a very bad recipe. Is it not over terror? You know, how it is in twenty nine thousand nine people hate up people in your comments saying wild stuff because they wished that they were able to work as hard as you are short what you have or live the life you have. So I think when it comes to eight look at it as a sign of validation of pack that there's still. Part of the conversation, the NBA when let's be honest. They haven't won a playoff series in six years. I don't know any other team that hasn't won a playoff series in six years. It still leaves your shows on ESPN the fact that they're part of that conversation is a win for the Laker organization. And look, I don't I don't think every NBA team is playing with the same deck of cards extenuating circumstances surrounding every franchise in organization that they have to deal with the lack of season ticket subscribers and buyers or media partners or free agent destination here, but the Utah Jazz has gotten out of the first round the last two years, and I don't see them making big splashes in the summertime. So that you how you run your organization. The Lakers doing that. You talked to ask things team lawf-, I'm still married. So are you all? Doing that producers. Those like I wonder if it's going to do that Utah Jazz offer. So everybody knows he in law. Chose the second coming of join weight. Rickie Rubio looks like he wants to Hogwarts. There are a lot of funny. It is strange going basketball game with twenty thousand people in the sand. Yeah. So we're still doing this that different kind of basketball back where everybody it's it's a special vibe out use on Tony the basketball games. And look the Lakers have known to blame themselves the honesty they traded away. And all star diangelo, Russel. Oh goodbye. Say goodbye to Julius Randolph nothing. Oh, I was hoping the tree happens by Ozzy hoping it happens. So the pelicans could go to the second round with Kyle coups. No, Brandon Ingram. Joyous. Ran first of all I would have been almost the angel- DeAngelis. Russell could not thrive here because he was a Tableau tail and he was human distractions in Los Angeles. You have really infants now with the platform. Now, you have to understand you type of player to play here with all these distractions is Hollywood glitz glamour, you become a bigger star and people can't function in this environment. It eight every spring in eighth grade. Let's bring in born ready lent. Stevenson sounds like a recipe has he got in trouble. Trouble got into the. He got into the play has gotten arrested telling star in my will, I okay with that long as you're not selling secrets. I don't want to know who's doing anything. I'm okay with that. And you don't want to defend the Lakers is I know it's funny that I'm usually the one in year is spin. For the Lakers. Well, you are this new territory for you. I'm not spinning what was August. Like, it was fun. Right jealous. Labor day. How are you? I mean, it's August jealous. Very the Laker fan base house. Dallas where he was getting ready. The first game was insane. It was a debutante ball in Los Angeles. Here's people. And people get it. Warranty. You are so jealous, and I don't like it. Then it's not pretty winning in your life. First of all their chips. Second you're on vacation most glamorous international. Exotic destinations gets watched the Ron James fly every night across the street from the office. Don't be jealous serving people are just blessed. And that happens to be me, and you were to hang out with Hollywood celebrity. Coming up. I need you to give me a quick preview. Coming up on the other side of the break. We have more with the great been lions. But I make sure you're subscribed to be honest on the ESPN app, apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. I do want to talk about this trend of celebrity actually being tease me athletes, actually, being a part of the Oscar Serena's she's actually presenting this year. Kobe won last year. Do you see this being more of a relevancy in terms of athletes coming to Oscar, I think it's a great time Kerry for elevated sports, storytelling you've seen it at the Oscars with Koby winning for his short his short animated film last year. Tonya, Harding, Laura. That's a that's a Oscar move Allison Janney winning supporting actress, that's your ignorance when the documentary for Netflix cycling and nothing right here at ESPN the OJ documentary go, so it's a great this stigma. They want surrounded the phrase sports movies. Well, they don't translate oversee audiences who aren't into sports aren't going to enjoy these stories. It's just not the case. You know, I was out at Sundance and interviewed a filmmaker named Garamba Chadha directed bend. It like Beckham only movie in the history of the world to be distributed in every country on earth, and it speaks volumes to the power sports has unite audiences. And I think it's a great time for sports, by the way as you go down. This is why you're the expert in Hollywood you go down that list. It's a long list it's been there. We are just now acknowledging it in so many different ways. And I and I also know about Malcolm X, excuse me, having Washington because I think he's the same guy. Now, remember he did that. That's all. And there was a time where the studio was going to pull the plug on that movie and Spike Lee, turn to the sports community. He went to Magic Johnson. I need some money, and they gave it to share that. I remember being at Sundance one year in Eccles theater, which is the big famous premiere spot. They're standing there, and they bring all the producers on stage, and I'm like really one of the theater who recognizes Michael Finley, Michael Findlay. Former Dallas maverick has been only one supporting independent film for a long time built a nice business from self. Chris rivers mistake thought Sunday, it's Tony Parker eleven the guys have been supporting independent film in a way that you don't even hear about. It's almost the more the world to do connect in many ways, but on the highest level to see them being I don't know maybe embraced when you're more of a mainstream athlete like through an Koby, not necessarily an independent film. Mike bend it like Beckham or these other independent films that are being embraced. But just the win. The artists are big, and they're known are the ethnic big in their known. They're being embraced. And I think that's a good look LeBron's not only the most influential sports content producer. He's one of the most influential producer producers here at Hollywood. There's that run in August when he got the town where every shop in. City wanted to be in business with him. So he's able to have deals at Showtime and HBO traditional competitors. I gotta ask you a question. If in fact, we don't get a D, we'll they'll be certain hunting people who will not want to deal with. I mean, the end of Kobe's career through interesting to me how the Laker fan base could have just survived getting through an aging superstars. So what do you do? Sign up for another agent superstar. Yeah. I remember. When are you are you calling? Lebron aging superstars hundred percent. Oh my God. Succeeds years in the league is thirty four years old even in the same situation. Go ahead. How old is Kobe? What he's for the tilles torn achilles. Hope. He doesn't look how dare you put that jump to keep with the Hollywood leaning on word act. We're definitely not at intermission. So I think for fans they forget that a lot of people didn't wanna play was Kobe when you screaming at teammates, they were Sharman sof you've been why not sign up for the LeBron surprise the Ford. You're not gonna come on this show, and you're not gonna put up that propaganda that Dolan propaganda that nonsense. That's coming out of your mouth right now. Live out you much if Kevin Durant comes to New York City. Nobody is going to be facing murals on west four case. Kevin Durant comes to New York City. You are employees your own set of drama. Thank you very much. And I I will have you back with. You're with. High-spirits? Here's all right. Can people check you out in and how can they find you? Give me your stuff and get you out of here. I'm doing the lines then podcast right now. It's in the spirit of my grandfather's wrote for the New York Post six days a week for forty years covering nightlife from nineteen thirty four to seventy four on third generation now in our family getting to talk to athletes artists after this creator. So I'll have Michelle through the great French filmmaker on my show, and then I'll have lengthened Galloway wants to Nick always Nick backup point guard from the pistons on my show, people are telling their life stories when I hope people can take away from listening to the conversations what's like your show that we're on. Now, everyone's got their own path, and everyone has their journey and everyone finds her own voice at the right time in their life and applies it in a way that makes sense to them. And there's no rules to any of this color outside the lines create and really just kind of go for whatever it is that you're passionate about. And I could see celebrate those stories in the pocket. I love that idea. I lead with passion all the time. And then I figure it out later. I don't know if that works. That's way. Meanwhile, been lions ladies. Gentlemen Ambiente show. Always such a pleasure. Thank you for your the Oscars and enjoy having your summer vacation star in the middle of April. Although I May June free as a Laker fan you we are going to season Laker. Laker nation. We're going to the postseason do not believe this guy. He's full of it. We're going to split pressure. You can't trust anybody with us. Thank you. We're so far away. Hey, everybody that was been lions. Definitely check out his podcast lions, Dan. He's he's a smart guy. The only thing he the needle off on is basketball. But other than that, I think you can trust them for what he has to say. Thank you so much for listening to this edition of be honest. We will be back next week, folks. Don't miss it.
Palm Springs Q&A - Andy Siara - Max Barbakow
"You know the cool thing about today's movie is that it's funny again and again and again to the point that it gets repetitive over and over and over, and by the way this is a plus not a minus in the world of Palm Springs Howdy I'm Jeff Goldsmith and this is the QNA. My agenda is simple each week I plan to bring you in depth insights. Insights into the creative process of storytelling. You don't folks I was there in the room. You'll hear me say later. I'm not bragging I'm just trying to give you the energy because we're all socially distanced and we don't get to see films with each other anymore in it for the moment I was there at Sundance for their first big screening with twelve hundred people. People and the crowd lost it. I mean they went absolutely nuts as they should have. Because the movie was absolutely hilarious, fired on all cylinders, the performances were great. The writing and directing was great, not enough good things to say about it, so it was no surprise when it broke sundance records and sold for seventeen and a half, million dollars and sixty nine cents and we're going to talk about that today because we have director and curator Max, Barbakow, with us, and we also have a CO writer Andy Sierra with us, and you know maximum Andy really are a great team have been working together for a long time. They had a lot of great insights into this their process to make their first feature link film together and. I know you'll dig this episode and speaking of things to dig. I hope you'll also check out back story magazine over at www dot backstory dot net. If you can believe it in all this madness with movie, still not being released into theaters, we are as a film magazine, still going to produce new issue issue number forty two, and we're working on it, and for those of you who want to experience who we are and what we? We do just go on over to backstory dot net, and you can even use code save five. That'll save you five dollars office subscription for one year it will give you access to about the years worth of past issues, and we're adding more into our archive, but for for now with the software update there's there's basically about a little over a year in there, and it'll give you access to the new stuff. We do over years well. At checkout at backstory dot net, you could use coupon code. Save Five that will give you access on the web via desktop or laptop. It will also give you access via an IPAD with those log in credentials if you have one and it's better few to subscribe it backstory than through apple, because it leaves more of your money in our pockets rather than apple, so thank you for that, but now without any further ado I hope you check out palm springs from Hulu, it is playing on Hulu. Obviously, it's drive ins around the nation. It is really worth your time. It's a hilarious movie. It's a great well-crafted love story. There's there's a lot. Lot to it that that I don't want to spoil it for you, but check it out and see what all the hype is about because now we're GONNA get into our conversation with Max and with Andy about their feature debut palm springs Andy Max I loved. I loved your film so congrats on that. And I was actually at Sundance at the ECCLES theater for your for screening and I I thought it was you know incredible. The crowd just went crazy for it so the energy in the room of just seeing it with a with a huge audience of twelve hundred people awesome, so congrats on that to both of you. I loved it We start with breaking in stories and I'm just curious your background. Did either of you study film in school or Theater? What what's what's your background? The drove down the path. I saw on June eleventh, Ninety Three addresses Barking Michael. It my my mom's best friend gaming shoulder Mount Camera. I seven at the time and I just spent the next in elementary school junior high school making. Little short films that The Romeo Juliet. MMA crucible and Richard Arabic Thea, so I always knew I wanted to do that then. In some to my older brother asked me to be in his indie rock band when I was a junior in high school Zayed's obviously said yes. And that kind of. Sent me down the. The touring indie rock band path for the next ten years mainly the next, the five years after I finished Undergrad. Ride did not did some creative writing classes in college I did not. Actively pursued film I kinda like sort interrupt. Where'd you go to school? I went to UC Irvine. And then Yeah I. My last final ran across the street. The ban ban has at the south by which started like the first of. Five years of doing laps around the country when the Dan. plateaued and My older brother and I decided. Today! I did not know what else to do other than. Give this film making thing a real shots like okay? What are some film score? decided to abide. By that. A couple of weeks before applications were doing I think it was the one that didn't require the gre taken the gre. Like I did not know what else to do with my lights the one thing that ever been passionate about was. Was Joan and Then television once onside saw the sopranos when it was taken out in one thousand, nine hundred. And at that point like I, just I knew I had to pursue this and give it a shot. In, that's what was. What was the camera that you were given at a young age? Just just before we move onto Max camera was. Oh, I can't I can't remember the brand of. Had one for the full vhs. Air. New Orleans Camera Yeah. This huge thing that I-, I-, warranty the ground, but it was you know it was that summer is where it's I saw. Dress summer nine times, and that's what I was chasing that round, and then the later later ninety s white when my brother introduced me to you know Cohen Brothers and Kubrick. And deandre said it was like oh well. There's this whole side of a too and. And just last question before we get to Max when you were at Afi was during the time when they would not invite some people back for the second year because I I've interviewed a lot of people about that and it Kinda pit students against each other, and it's always interesting to hear how that went didn't go if if that was when you were there. Day. I mean. They say they do didn't. They? Didn't invite some people back, but ultimately they just need money. Yeah I. There is a kind of a natural weeding out process that. Goes along with like dome school like that especially one that is just very very expensive to in even people realize there's a lot of souls are goes on so people naturally gonNA drop off. It but it definitely is not liked it used to be. I know that in the. Early nineties as one year nineties. We're like. The Myth was half the class was. A. And that is not that was. That was also because of space considerations which they never talk about. They just couldn't afford at the time didn't have the space to let. The whole class cut taxes films. Like mid-nineties which they never talked about what we'll just for our listeners, Andy you and Ian Max. You both share a story by credits and Andy You have screenwriting credit. Max You. You directed Max. Get get to your past bricky and. All this. I also went to a F- I kind of women. That's where Indian I met The second day they're in bonded over. Music and eastbound and down, and how that show could make you laugh and cry, and as toxic characters do hide behind their toxicity because they're too vulnerable. To admit that they build things, but before that I used to take my grandmother, I grew up in Santa Barbara in my grandmother lived in Camarillo when she was older and g are used to take her to movies with my brother who seven years older than me. in Camarillo regatta soup plantation deed soup and the Salad Bar, and then go to best buy, and she buys DVD's and she bought me Boogie nights when I was like A. Lead yeah, eight or nine and I watched that movie in that. I already had an older brother who seven years older than me and it was. Joan me the good stuff like again I came out. I kinda where I think. We're Andy when I came at it from the coincide in the Soderbergh side, and like the Tarantinos early but Boogie nights was the movie that kind of. Blew my mind initially, because of all the crazy stuff in it. All the sex drive's A. Lot Process for eight years old man at the line is. Is this software is? A hardcore but Just continued, it was one of the first movie though like this feels different feels like rock and roll. This feels like. very special, unlike unlike anything I'd ever seen, and then revisited at seeing all the different elements, the visual style in without indebted to and that how the story elements worked out, there was so much going on in their beyond the stuff that blew my mind, and it kind of made me want to be a filmmaker, and I've always known I wanted to to make films but like those directors that I loved in the nineties, growing up in coming to love films never wanted to go. Go directly, do it like excel like I needed to rebel income. Do take the long way around in crew. Some life experience along the way to have something to to say almost so I I went back East for college. I went to Yale and studied American studies there which is as big as it sounds. I just got to take a lot of liberal arts stuff. studied documentary there in when did some traveling amidst Bachman raising like Bolivia in Southeast Asia and made a documentary about my adoption. I was GONNA. Get to that. You know we always say what's your biggest lesson from your breaking story I just WanNa time date things. Though what year did you guys graduated? Twenty two, thousand, fifteen, fifteen. Okay, okay, and so your documentary. is mommy. I'm a bastard. And it was. It was your first full length feature for A. What was your biggest lesson from making that? I. Mean Everything I think because I didn't know anything and that's kind of when you don't over. Think things you make very happy mistakes and you have the. Ability to be super creative and think outside the box. Just because you're learning as you go, so the dog I was I, did everything on that movie except for do the music. My brother did the music but I. was you know editing? I I. Think I learned most just about the power of the at it and also storytelling into how to. Essentially had to tell a compelling story without really knowing anything about structure i. just kind of like feeling my way out as I was shooting this movie berry. In in the importance of creativity and kind of just invention, is that the experience fire by like Ross Mick Elliott Sherman Guard. In, Sherman's March documentary made which super personal, and just like the verner or saga notion of ecstatic truth, and like facts don't matter, but truth is all that matters. And that could be very dynamic interesting, so it was really just actually starting something that was assured. That was my thesis. At College which is Mama Bastard in turning it into a feature and chasing in finishing, think starting and finishing the power vetted like the two things that I learned analogous erecting to like even with rewrite in thinking about like you're writing your all in the in in the reworking via. It's like it's never finished until you have thoroughly rework an idea and make the best possible version of itself, and just before we get to palm springs Andy Your first. gig To my knowledge was writing on the TV show lodged forty nine and what was your biggest La as? A. Ride on your first big dig and we're GONNA dive straight into Palm Springs. I mean I. Lodge forty nine I was on it for. Four years. those. That was a long. Thousand Interesting. Share the only two seasons that still you know, sadly not many people heard about But it was such a formative experience in my life was almost like you know if I finished a environment like a post doctorate. For, four years two years day of. Years, there I feel like. Did Jim, Gavin. The is one of the most talented writers I know. One of those empathetic people I know. and. When the showrunner NOCCO came on to work with them, they're like this perfect match and is perfect collaborative partnership. And Day set the tone for. Anyone that worked on that show from the crew level actors to writers like it's. It was such a kind show. and I think on a storytelling level learned like how to be deeply empathetic toward characters a deeply empathetic writer, while on the other side of like. It's a top down. Mentality you create a? A good healthy environment That's that's how Peter Jim. Lead that show and I feel like. I feel. So indebted to those two. I will always look to them as like. For for? mentorship advice in way. I'm just like. How did it again how to tackle life in how to tackle story, but also I honestly one of the important things. I learned from Peter. Who is a? Is a family man Lifetime writer is doing this for thirty plus years whenever they also is a family man and he had this balance of Stanley Lights. Fatherhood and Work life in a healthy way. Deal lucky that I got that right out of. UNDERGRAD right out of Grad rather better Grad School. So that, like I you know the risk is always going to. Come to obsessive about the work and forgetting about there's this whole part about life that is at that needs. More attention. With a family of my own, like I I learned how to balance all that stuff from them, so that's great, and that's really important for longevity of course, and as you said it, it really goes top down in the attitude of show, so having having that kind of mentality from the top important, so getting getting straight into Palm Springs, and and you know we're in the non spoiler section right now, but we'll get into a little later really. Really, I'm just curious because you know most writers when they know that they're in the shadow of Groundhog Day, you know they kinda give up. Because how could you do better than groundhog day, but would soon entertaining about your film, is you? You take it in a different direction, but you still you know I feel pay a little bit of orange to some of the the mathematics of groundhog day and kind of go on your own direction. Tell me, tell me how palm springs started. I know it's the most boring question. The you've been asked a million times, but we're GONNA get deeper into the story mechanics, so it'll be interesting to hear how the idea formed. On At Afi maximum I made a couple of shorts together made our thesis Dome Together, and then during our second year there. Trial McDowell and Justin later came in showed us the one I love. And they're both in fi. grads had graduated maybe eight years earlier than when they aim roughly at at and they talked about being stuck in. A finishing school being stuck in kind of a development hell. On some other movie, and then there, whatever five years out of school and they didn't have much to show with it, children and Think drugs at a general meeting with Mark Who said like what do you have that we can go and make? Something on the cheap, and they're. They made the one I love, and so their advice to our entire class was like. Go make something right away. Is that same kind of marked loss. Due to blast. Brothers model just like just make something. and I think maximum. I took that to heart in the week after graduation. I think exactly five years ago, maybe this weekend or last week and we. We Like let's make our first meeting. We headed out the palm springs in had a our little last week in talking about. What we want to be is one location or locations contained that we know we can do. and. We both have an affinity to palm springs settled on hot springs, but Out Can, we came with a sketch of this character. Niles, who is just who was born out of conversation between me and Max in like? Mining our own personal fears in shame and insecurities, and from that point on Like it evolved into the groundhog day. Thing in a way. Did it just like? Ask US five years ago, it was it was more like of leaving Las Vegas. In just. As our as our own personal lives change over the cut, the following years, and you know. The influence of large forty-nine on me all that stuff it. It led the movie into a different direction than I think initially set out to do, and then once we landed on the ground hog day aspect of it all. You can look at groundhog days. Maybe at the end he figures out the meaning life. He's gifted this. This the day handing in the next day begins so one of our jumping off. Points was like okay will say. This is Character Niles. We know so well because we'd. Written. Virginia versions of movie free time loop with him like let's say get stuck in a time loop. And lives all that and figure out the meaning in line for what he thinks meaning life is, and then only do. It gets to the point where he doesn't get out no still stuck does the day just starts over again like? Okay now. What do you do and so that being the jumping off point? That being our starting point, where this essentially the sequel to a movie that doesn't exist like there's a whole lot of movie that exists where Niles. Get stuck in the time loop. We see that homer the payout that's. That was less interesting to us because we would slowly started a rub, but I want to hear about that other movie for a second Lake Lake, was it? Was it really just that he's trying to figure out his life? And then he accidentally gets stuck in the time loop is is, does the other movie end like that? I love stomach we. We never never did the movie where he gets stuck. In the time, there was the. One how how deep we to go here Max lease go for it I mean there is i. mean you're you're seeing semblance I guess in terms of the day for the wedding. As. with misty and and And a driver in the bathroom. You're seeing stop that. He experienced that probably drove him. To. Get Shit faced. Go find that cave, so you're in the way that. Christians care kind of navigates that night you're seeing. Maybe some of the experience that Nihil Niles has has seen before. That got him into the space. Glad on, there's there's tons of stuff that you haven't seen and it was. Yup, that's that's kind of the was titled. In. The initial. Hundred Years from now is the was the initial. Title, which was a bird song, Grand Person Song. Okay? Okay, that's cool. We'll sue seven. How long did it take you to write the the actual script knowing that there were previous? I guess knowing that there are a few previous generations. How long did it take you to write the script that we know as palm springs once you introduce the time element. Is a over. A couple of false starts once we. Landed on like the actual movie We understood this other character was Sarah And I had gotten married. In that time a palm springs in I think all these life things that we went through essential to it all. In balancing the work life of lodge in this I, remember what we had all that in place. December like just after a end of December of two thousand sixteen. And I think almost. A month later was very quick, actually came out I. Like I had a hundred thirty draft under forty pages like not good draft at all, but I was like okay, but that's like that was the most the first time the movie. Script that most closely resembles vitamin, B. and then from that point on like you know, I gave that to maximum we just. Talk nonstop and anytime died back into it This is the beauty of having like a collaborator like Max. Out a friendship of that is that instead of like going back into a hole for the next? Two months to write the next draft. I would dislike. Start writing in if I get excited about a scene, just take a screen shot and text say what do you think and my hope is that either laughs, or he feels something in the, and then he or she feels nothing. He does me Wallow in shame forbidden. Try Again and then. It was so it was a month of like a month plus writing that draft, and then another nine months after that like fine tuning until we finally land that Roy character was not. One of the last elements he added to it okay later later that year. We'll so. Ask you both quick questions about your creative habit just to get like a baseline. Obviously Max when you're directing a feature, pre-production is key as director and I'm curious. What some of the things were that helped you I know we're getting ahead of you guys setting it up and selling it which I'm still go to, but I just WanNa talk about great of abbots. What were some of the really important things that helped you out as a director in your pre-production? That made your production. Go smoother on this. I think just in terms of the writing of the been having spent time with Andy to like a lot of a lot of the directing was written into the script, just transfer sins, and the rhythm of scenes, and even certain camera moves in accused like it a lot. I've been thinking about it for so long that I it was all about communicating in crap to department heads in collaborators like exactly what we were going to do and then. Just describing thematically because there's a lot, it's very rich thematically, and a lot of people is very relatable what we were after, and what kind of feeling was so they could take ownership over it and kind of elevated on, but I think the thing that I'm so glad I did that. It comes spent the most time on him prop. We're just sitting with our DP. US amazing her name's Tran And not even Charlotte, but just talking through the script emotionally and kind of developing a very grounded human driven a visual language moment that is very very subtle shifts. 'cause you're seeing the same moments again and again, but you're never seen the same thing twice. You seen things kind of. Of! That was very very important. And then also I think it was amazing to have the time. When the lonely island in Andy, it's a lot of time in prep tailoring that role or for him as Niles in just getting Christian onboard to kind of understood. What we after on there wasn't there wasn't much time or need really to kind of like talk things over with them. They kind of responded to got into ownership over it, but visual style wise like that was. Was the thing I spent most time mom in prop in there were we have spent so much time working on the movie and again it was something that we just wanted to go. Make quick like the one. I love instead of Poland into a completely different animal, but I had kind of the visual approach prepared, and just kind of production plan prepares that we were in some ways able to tailor a little bit of a bigger scale. So that was pro. That's that's awesome. You know you were talking about transitions a second ago. One of the things that struck me in the movie was that there were so many details that were you could just tell were intricate. Even early on when you're sitting outside. His girlfriend misty is cheating on him, and he says you know you. It's not like you have a leg up. And then in the background she says hold my leg up and it was just that the back and forth of those moments were just really well plotted. In in the script that you know that's that's not something you would really get out of. Improv you know you. You have to do the advance planning, and honestly so much of that is. Is because we had so much time with the script, and I remember like right before we officially took it out Max came over. My. My wife was on the BACHELORETTE PARTIES AMAX GAME OVER WITH A. Forty. Eight active to Kati Just put the script good double the big screen, and just like walk through line by line, and the point of it was just like. There any points board or Let's get better and just punching it up in that sense and I think that that helps with the. With the the many layers hope on. We'll so lightning lightning around for you. Andy just a few things in your creative habit. How important is outlining your process when you're when you're writing your script? I'm. Outlining is. A better writer would do. For for this one, it was an you know. Maybe for a different kind of movie. An outline would make sense We may never. This the movie that it became because of how like the way kind of organically grew over time if there was any outlined with it, but I think because maximum i. Not hold into anybody for those. Two two and a half three years whatever talked about this where it was solely to entertain each other That allowed for so much to be found through the writing in through our discussions that we have in taking like the you know A. Cork Board of loose ideas into a you know. In allowing myself to get lost in the writing in that sense as carding with your Cork Board like is that what you're doing? At one point we tried know carte thing, but. Again it was so messy it was. It was like it was like throwing initially every idea. We ever wanted to see in a movie on the Cork Board and then. That in. It just like there was, there was no method to it. Okay. Yet but that's why it's found alive in desert sense. You know that feeling. It's still in in the movie. Yeah, because I think that if we. We initial we look to Reagan married one of those like earlier touchdown movies for. Trying trying to? If outlined could have had you know a version of that? That was just not as good because that would be great. I think it was. In not outlining it allowed for. Some of the stranger things to just bubble up it like those ideas. Come a when you get into that. You. Know maybe there's a runner's high that happens. At a certain point and that's what I because no one was saying. No don't follow that and I had maxine. Yes, do that. Like eating hers to follow those those instincts. That's what allowed to break from the. Outline and thing and so just really quick Edwin you work. Do you like to give yourself a page count to hit each day or certain amount of hours that you that you want to write? One of the good lessons I got from a one of my teachers at AF I was. Once, you know like you want to. Actually start writing this thing, and that's what happened at the end of sixteen, top twenty seventeen like when I knew I wanted to have a draft. This, it's like giving yourself a daily quota and I think that. I I think I. Think I gave myself like seven pages a day. I can remember exact number, but the the lesson was always like. Give yourself that quota if you if it takes you. Five Day takes you ten hours a day. Five pages along day. It takes you three hours to five pages. You'd never sure day, and but just always make sure that every day, and then by the end of however long you will have your hundred twenty, eight, hundred thirty in my case, bloated hundred forty page script. But you know it'll. It's Dick. It's felt cycle is so important to get that first draft out, and that's where. You, giving that quota helps just. Keep your eye on like. Just finish staying Kazan. You can go back and make it better, but it'll. It'll turn off that voice in your head. That says now this is terrible. I I would be remiss if I if I didn't blaze through these last non spoiler questions. It's really important for anybody. Especially a film school Grad to settle their first big project to stay on it and not lose control right. A lot of people wanna take your script and give it to another director, but you guys. You know you stayed with it and you're able to do that. What do you think was key in in that process of selling your scripts and setting it up? That kept you in the room per se. for both of you. I mean like. When when it came to. I think both Maxon I maybe maybe. From accident. Myself! Out Rather the movie not exist in maximum can still be friends in in twenty thirty years, so we can never never break up at that part of me on that was the still the most fun part is holding was was collaborating on this with you know when my best buddies. And I have to think. Maybe I'm wrong that maybe Indian. Island guys like you know. They came up in a way. Sticking together and. Maybe they saw that in. And on top of that They're just. The. Those head straight in Becky slow bitter, the producer who is running it like? They're. They wanted US involved they i. mean like you know especially you know in my in my obviously Max has to be involved, but there's been many times where yeah, goodbye screenwriter, but not like I was a lot of respect and. On all of their arts, and so yeah, I, was there every day. Was the budget and the schedule the the greenland the move before. It was. I will say I think Andy spot in terms of like. How did we get I think if we make the movie with anybody or try to make the movie with anybody other than the lonely island, just a completely different experience because they're, they're a true collective collectiveness, truly collaborative and they. You know they they've known each other. They recognize how personal. The story was for us, and how was the budget was a? Four to five million dollars in twenty one days Juden, which is a wild twenty one days. Yeah, did you guys have rehearsal? Max's is rehearsal important to you. generally it is, but we didn't really have a personal time now like we. We did a read through with and Kristen which Andy was out as well, which was a wonderful experience. Not that we it was necessarily we had to fix anything. Per Se I, mean they say they made suggestions on? We fixed up, but just to see like Oh my God work. Before going into it like it was very electric in between them, just other dynamic and like the energy. Use Alcohol. When we read through that, so we're just like my God. They have chemistry. I mean it's interesting because you know Sandberg has such a great comedic timing, and it's it's. It's a lucky position to be in to have him in in your your debut feature I am curious if when you guys at least to even a staged reading of or something like that. Did it necessitate any major script changes I? mean if it's something you need to save for the spoiler section we can, but it's just always interesting to hear about those tweaks after casting really I. Mean I feel like it needs. It then we changed, were just got better there little clips that were added in there there were and even when we were shooting at every set up was kind of opened it up when we got what we needed to get. They're able to kind of I wouldn't say there was improvisation for sure, but also just like loosely say in their own words, try things, but can you remember anything Andy I? Can't I mean all had the benefit of having? You know one of the lead actors a part of that whole. In further developing with developing with them, that was another two months or so so like any lines that he couldn't there'd be worth weeks. Just a fit him him. Being a part of the process of Alzheimer's at it's GonNa Invaluable. And then Kristen's just incredible incredible actor that she. Could get anything she'll make it. Look and sound good and said there wasn't any like I wouldn't say major. Changes We'll get into when we'll get the spoilers. Aren't good good to know I! It made history when it sold for seven and a half seventeen and a half, million dollars and sixty nine cents at Sundance, which which beats nate Parker's birth of a nation from twenty sixteen by sixteen cents. Because he was, he was sorry sixty nine cents. He was the previous a winner of the the largest ever. Are there any fun memories that you WanNa? Give us before we get into the spoilers of just being in the room for a bidding war like that. On, your first feature film, which is just awesome. Awesome strange I mean I. Read the stories about those late night. Late night sessions in the in the sweets meeting with different distributors, buyers whatnot of to be there. At the end of the day where we premiered at three o'clock in the afternoon, had an after party, and then had an after dinner after party then several hours later CH- late into the night doing. I mean you know just listening watching those those little pitch sessions? Ensure sobering up for the third time that day I mean. Pop Up there are many moments throughout entire weekend. Maximize like looked at each other like. This is crazy. This whole thing even showing a movie premiered sitting next to each other in the back of that theater. When the movie was no longer ours anymore. We're about to show it to people in you know in in an hour and a half they could just come out in the hate it. But showing it to a sold out crowd seeing like knowing where you know my. Family was sitting in my brother and my my wife's. in the where Max is family in was sitting in the cast and crew like this now that was like an overwhelming emotional. Moment they're. Remembering seven years earlier when we would get maximum I. On my second day of school for Secondary School. So like there was the those parts of the journey were always like you know coming in in the ending that crazy weekend with. With that say oh. There there's a video that I have on my phone that when we found out. When I announced as Max in our on our way to the second screening and it. Just goofy little kids that I don't think either of us. Ever imagined this movie like getting to you know, get to play at Sundance making a movie that complaints dance. Let alone right on that. It's a I would feel feel very lucky or I so we're going to get into the spoilers. If there's anybody watching. This is not yet seen the movie. Please press pause, go see the movie and comeback because we're gonNA, talk about the details in the movie. In in some very specific points you know my first question is kind of a strange one, because been thinking about it a lot. I I know that that that that you will which way you will probably answer, but I'm just curious. Who Do you consider to be the actual protagonist, because as far as it goes when it comes down to it. Niles although I. Know You started writing the script about him? And he has more screen time than Sarah. We actually know more about Sarah, and she's the more active character for much of the movie. Especially the Third Act and do you consider them co protagonist, or do you consider Niles? The protagonists really curious about how you look at it. I'd say of you I personally on the CO protagonist side. It I mean it's just a total two hander. They they both. By the end like. Represent different ends of the spectrum and needed to have this like. Collision Course in order to. Get out the other end where they come out. Max You definitely at a to enter, and it was funny on the page. It was always. It started with Niles came. You know. Feels more like miles is moving on the page. Once you you put it up and you start bike in prep thinking about. Those guys. Passive as hell. He's in different L. in obviously emotional catalyst of the movie, So it was definitely was a realization when we were actually making it. It's like Oh. This is this is really interesting and different feeling. Just because of the the the two hundred with the energies are so disparate that it kind of waxes. Wayne Drifts of where your. Allegiances lie where you're wishing. To. Structures really important and for a time travel movie. One of the interesting things that you guys do here. That really really worked well for both the characters to make such a character base story is the shifts in point of view and I see so many different debates that you probably had on the page and even an editing as to win to drop in certain things because. I could see some things as being modular and other things, probably being set in stone like I. Guess You know the character secret of Sarah's that she is sleeping with the groom to be her sister's husband to be the night before their wedding. It's very interesting that it was dropped in the Third Act, but I'm curious if something like that, maybe came earlier in the audience had more Sense of dread, and she was hitting the days because it's interesting, it's an element that really sticks with you on the second viewing because I've I've I've been fortunate to see a twice. In which you get her dread a lot more the second time around because you know her secret, which I think is some of the fun of the movie. It funny because that actually. It's not mistaken Max that came a little later that reveal and it was. It was one of the final drafts like just. A month before we started shooting where we realized like that is, that is a problem. We needed to put that a little earlier because it was asking a little too much of the audience to keep going along for this ride without any context provided. Ed so they have that that ended up end up getting moves Yeah, there's a little bit earlier so that. The audience was aware of it I think I wanNA. Say before we found out the audience found out as Niles found out now in the movie. Audience before, Niles knows now that that's the hardest balanced like is. What the audience knows, versus what our characters now that that's. A lot of a lot of math that makes my head explode. You navigated a really well I mean you're opening? The the pacing of the movie was fantastic and you're you're you're structure carried it, but just even some of the things you did in which you got the troops out of the way of living the fast crazy life, you know of of of time return each day, and it allowed you to get into a more character driven piece about their love story, which really focuses on for for the people that compare it to groundhog day. His character's journey at first is just to stop being a jerk, and interestingly here you really have I'm just talking matic's. You have a Nile Listrik. Debate about quote. Unquote the meaning of life, right. And and you're basically getting into this concept of being lost and found, which comes out in the monologues at first during the wedding, and and later on especially for Niles as character I'm curious how conscious you were theme as you were writing it because you really baked a lot in there that that I think resonates. Touch on one of those Peter from lodge forty nine, one of those lessons I remember when he had said each year should always give your character speech helps a lot. Later that day I was like okay. I'M GONNA. Write a note, a weddings each for miles. But yeah the the all all that steamatic. juice maybe. I. Would say that that came out of these long. Therapeutic conversations that Maxon I had over those years, so that like? That kind of became this guiding light's. Whenever. You know whenever we are talking about where to take scene or. Hitting hitting a wall. It's like you go back to team like it is not if it's not a in in support of the theme than than why is it need to be there? And also like at the. Right before I started writing Max gaming his copy of a be here now at Rhonda. And he had. He had one hundred post. It notes of different pages, marked notes mark, and I would just, and there's a lot of matic. Stuff that came from that and. I would open to a random page that Max had saved in there every day just to Kinda like. Today writing and that just helped. Help make sure I was always like on that right thematic path stay in that lane without wandering off to my it was perfect I mean it was. It was a lot of great conversations that strangely now even under our worldwide pandemic resonate quite well in which people sometimes feel loss of time and days repeating that are quarantining, so you know it's taken on a whole different life than than your original attention Max Directory. There was something that you did early on. That was great. It was showing the familiarity with the world that Niles has during the wedding sequence where. He's he in on every detail a moment before it happens ranging from putting a chair under the drunk guy right as he's ready to collapse and knowing which drink to grab what would the difficulties of doing a scene that complicated which which seemed like a lot of long shots like you didn't i. don't WanNa. Use the word cheat because it's not sheet to cut it up, but you did a lot of. You did it all in your in your frame most of. We want that was that was important to me to make feel again. The mood was all about like the human grounded story in heightened world and part of the way you kind of. Feel like pool. People into that. Make them feel like it's real so to speak. It's unfold images, not cutting and doing as much cameras possible in also. Using began more Glenda's and creating a sense of scope and let it you know you could of in it a little bit. It, was you know it? It was a lot of again. A lot of that was put on the page. that. In Christner so talented I think they learned that dance once. We shy, and then because it's a Dan, it's kind of that I and him back into her. She rejects him in the dance. Kind of comes back and they do it together in the bar. When they go into the bar and they learn both of those parts. Didn't didn't practice until the night that we did that. I, think in like again. We'd had no no time on the smoothly, but we did that very quickly emptied that very quickly in. A choreographer just done was great on. Just just kind of blocked it out and it was. It was a lot of fun to watch. It's one of those things where it's. You know. It's like a good joke gets dragged out. You just want. You didn't know you can see how it was gonna end, and we just want to draw it out. Until, he reached her, so it made sense to try to do it in one. and. That's the fun stuff with the writing I feel like. I was one of those on that Polish weekend that we just continued to like embellish. We threw it up on the screen. What that dance actually? It looks like in comedy. There's the concept of setup and payoff, and of course non sequiturs, and you really kind of had them both in which you know, you had the setup payoff of orchid explosion by A. which just kept coming back? which was great, but then you also have this great non-sequitur of the one of the key moments in the film. When when he's trying to get to her at the end, he just literally walks onto. spuds is firing range, and shows the richness of your world, and does this quick brief monologue about how he says lost son and could get a ride now. Now that it's not sure that he's son. He's taking it for mentioning knows. But how do you balance between those two? Because it's interesting that if you go too far in either direction it'll, it'll seem Hammy, but but you guys really spread those out, and you did it really well so I'm just curious what you learned about comedy performance writing and directing through through that experience as well. I mean like I. Think I love a good setup. Good payoff I love. Movies images that you know by the end everything. Is there for a reason in a way part of the same tapestry? There's there should not be any loose ends reciting character or a an idea. We should pay often in some sense. That's why he was so important to always keep A. Scene in there. Because otherwise what's the point of spots other than just like you know. They go to that shooting range. And I think there's there's this feeling of completion when when you get a good setup payoff as for that balance at least on the writings witnessing from. You know what we tried to do in descriptive and wants to get to the actual movies. That's the benefit of having someone Mike Andy Sandberg who can look and deliver lines that would. Normally be Hammy or would. Anna by a different performer might not land, but he knows how to deliver that, so hello I'm breaking and really quick to remind you to check out backstory magazine. That's right. My Absolute Passion Project backstory you could find it on a desktop or laptop at backstory dot net. Of course you could get a subscription at backstory dot net, and you will then get credentials where you could log in on an IPAD as well with the backstory. APP. You were one of the only magazines in the world. The published screenplays in their entirety. We Interview Writers Directors Actors Editors Producers. Playwrights vis, you name it, so so it's like if you like storytelling I hope you'll check out back story and for a limited time you could use code save five at checkout, and that will save you five dollars off a one year subscription backstory magazine you'll see the new issue number forty two, which were working on during Corn Dean, and you'll get access to about the years worth of old issues, and we're adding to our archive to add more of our old issues because Doodo software updates a lot of our oldest us where. We have to now Riyadh them such fun but anyhow I really appreciate you considering checking out back story. If you go over there, you could read issue thirty seven, and was our avengers in game issue. You could read it for completely free. CHECK US out test. Drive us, and I think that'll show you. That were worth your time, so thanks for checking out backstory magazine, and now without further ado once jump right back into our conversation with Max Andy about their latest film Palm Springs Max. Did you have to kind of give yourself some sort of color coding? Lamb sulphur where you were to give directions to the actors as to where they were in a timeline with so many flashbacks, especially, though setups payoffs as well I could see it being kinda complicated, even though it's also straightforward if you understand scrubbed. Everyone wants so so smart in it and I would always remind people where we were coming from and what was coming just to kind of calibrate them, but they were always on it. The hard stuff was when we would shoot stuff out of sequence, and continuity might be established like Princeton's Jay, had an idea, and I'm so like. We already shot Andy Crawling into cave. The first time we meet Jay that he would drop his crossbow is hunting bow at the mouth of the cave because he wouldn't need it, because he was in the start the day over again, walk in without that, and that would be like and we I was like that's brilliant, but we already shot. Shot the other end of this kid. It can't work, so there was stuff like that moth opportunities, but everybody was it just a really fun concept to engage with in it so evergreen and everyone's familiar with a time loop that like. Of course, we were reminded. And we reminding each other, but it was like this game that everyone was excited to. Be Coming to work like no, no, no, it's this way like because you know because of this. From there. It's funny. You mention jk because like I was going to bring that up as my next question, one of the interesting things about the movie is there isn't really a clear set antagonised like I could have easily seen it being JK's character of Roy and in the beginning. When you meet him, you think Oh, it's going to be. spy-versus-spy type thing the whole movie. They're going to be going back and forth, but it wasn't that at all, and and you know jk. Seeing becomes one of the more poignant scenes in Irvine. I hope you find your Irvine. At his house, in which in which he's, he's really taking on the finer things in life. Was that difficult for for your story for either one of you to not really have an antagonist depended on in which maybe you're. Protagonists are their own anti heroes in themselves. That's why that was the last one to be added like the maximum felt is after several drafts scribbled found. There is still something missing. Ingredient that was missing and it was out of that. Another remember this conversation very clearly. When we came up with the idea of Roy and you know there's there's the A. Young men. Debate individuation shadow reasoning for adding Roy. And then there's just the fun of a Wylie, Coyote road runner aspect of having Roy. and. Yeah. I like I like you. were. You found him like so? I I thought it was thought it was another job of perfect balancing. I'm curious if there were any left turns something that you guys wrote about or conceived maybe through a story board or design that you didn't have enough time or money to execute, but something that was kind of left on the drawing board that folks who are fans of the film would would have fun hearing about I mean in the rioting, and there was set mike talk about S- plugs. There is an entire spun sequence involving at Bunny rabbits in the diverse and kid ready to bat yet, kid, there's so much. About Thinking about the physics of the universe. That the whole that whole opening dance sequence like maximum, I would look at the great beauty. And too bad, we can't afford three hundred extra. We can only afford somebody actress and you know have to do it in like a quarter of a day, rather than having multiple days. There's like bigger versions of those. It was like the beer. The beer cans being thrown like the the we wanted to saving private Ryan. And with the bullets, going through the water like we have, we have cans. You know everything Kinda made it in, but it wasn't at the the vivid scale maybe that we'd been imagining. In our minds. Were there any important rewrites that you needed during production or something during production that you had to tinker with while the film was happening. So you know obviously you guys are close knit team, so if you need to rewrite something you could have or did. Did production pretty much? Go according to plan? Production was was madness just because it was so rushed in there were weather problems and you know we got everything we needed, but I think something that was always. A debate was always the ending. That was one thing that we were there. We have so many different for that. and Andy was working on those as we were shooting. A bunch, those not pool. Let's lean into that actually because you know. The ending has passed monologue outside the cave again. You know a good speech as you guys said, and it's a very funny speech whether doing a long-term run on sentence in. He's using anchor sand commas ellipticals the whole, the whole nine yards and he's. He's really come full force. You know he's ready to go for it and. And you also drop in kind of a little sliver that that they need to warn K. that they might have found a way out, so you're planting seeds for that. What were the challenges with the ending? Tell us what some of your Alz were because I could easily see it ending cut to black, and you don't really know if the day ends or not, but they've both learned their lesson. Was An option for share. Original inning. There was an original. Original scripted ending that. Is is a tough one question earlier today to. Properly answer it. There is there is a way that. There's an answer to whether they got out of the loop or not. Whether this cave explosion worked or not. There might be different interpretations of that I feel like. I, I know. I have an idea of what that was. But we want to leave it. Open a little bit, and it's kind of. Ending a reflection of Of that not wanting. We didn't want any kind of clean to clean of unending of that makes. Your. Alternates that you had on you remember some of those. Think, the thing that we agreed on always. From when we started talking and working with the lonely island was that we wanted people to leave the theater we wanted to Come talking about the movie. We didn't want a clean including. We want you know kind of an open ended, and in to the degree that that is the ending that we have now is up for debate what you take from it, but we wanted. The ending to or you know told Muir out to like what people had brought into the movie in the first place whether you're a cynic or an optimist, or you believe in live, you believe they got out of your the didn't get out I mean there were different things they were talking about. I think the I think would happen with original ending. was that like you said we had the speech at the cave? Dialogue seen in the pool and it just felt kind of like the move movies about rhythm to like you're saying it's very kind of well-structured dynamic in feels feels well calibrated. Eight hundred thought redundant, so we kind of experimented with a bunch of stuff in. The shorter. Shorter moment felt better, but there were I mean we add different animals by the side of the pool that we're A. Seemingly. About to different conclusions. What else do we have? No family there I mean it was all. Out We. All degrees of of what they're more talk, let's talk different animals, the one the one one. Constant was. In the last frame last. See your dinosaurs than horizon so. I Love I was Gonna ask about that moment the on the horizon was was a beautiful image and again it's within your budget you. You did a great job with your effects. Using lighting in your characters is your special effects rather than just a whole bunch of CGI. You kept it within your budget, and the audience gets what's going on of course I. I'm curious there any major deleted scenes. They WanNa tell us about something that you really held onto in your cuts and the lessons of editing that you learned you needed to cut. It's more just because again. It's such a you pull one thread out of the story in the logic, yeah! It was more adjust pulling sections out of scenes like there's a much longer or campfire scene. There's much there's a longer talk. Oh, seeing and that's the kind of stuff that just makes the movie better in the when you're getting into scenes later and getting out of scenes. Earlier in kind of you know bringing lines out. That are subtexts that exists there already, so I don't think we lost anything. Completely Major. There's there's a there's an old opening to that's that was scripted. That's different, but that moment is still. Do want to tell us what the opening was. The opening as written was niles kind of. An odd to. Lou Davis, which is another movie. We were thinking a lot about when we initially started on this like the the Death Bender version of the movie. back on into punks brings. With with Niles kind of jolting up in the bar, similarly to what we see him do wait in the movie before specific gave, and it's kind of. A moment that you think is happening in the present timeline, but is actually a setting. is a flash back Eric clash I guess with that. We? We just decided to do something different. opened up without it ends up your with him wandering the desert at night and wandering into the wedding into this each at night in the first time he enters the wedding is during the speeches and we like. It's it was. Playing with this mystery of it a little more instead, we went the other way of. Like! Let's get our bearings quicker, and then the character of non-representative, because she just kind of comes in with like literally a couple points, sentences and she she kind of clues off Sarah towards the end that that maybe things are going to be okay with what she says. I'm just curious because it's always fascinating to see how like a side character that isn't driving. The story forward comes in for just as little rich moment, so I'm just curious what that character means to you guys. I love. My grandparents followed thing yeah. Okay okay. The climate it just like the stuff up happens at weddings to I feel. Out of what the JK characters do just like little end if I. Were able to add to the mystery of metaphysics of things. kind of like. Reverend aside. It's always fun to kind of just goes or. Speaking of the metaphysics three research, did you find any way to get us out of this current simulation that we are trapped in right now? Because I'll do whatever takes, please get us out of this version of twenty twenty. I want to reset but toughest scene is always important. What was what was your toughest scene for each of you a Mac sunset Andy on the page? And how did you creatively rise to the challenge to solve it? Not to put you on the spot, Max. But what was what was the toughest scene for you? And how did you raise bryce challenge? The Andy I think the toughest see no would probably shooting the ambien because we had half a day out there and and we had a lot to try so all the stuff in front of the cave is what you're talking about. No, no, no the like them floating in the pool, the CODA to the to the end into okay. Okay Yep and that In in anytime, everyone has this. You should on water or Like. Like at high noon in. It's hard, so it was about kind of like putting them in a position to get comfy and. You know seem as in bliss while when it was actually Kinda, miserable out there. and then just like the you know again the. Andy speeches abused on. Just like? Really minimizing times the time between setups to give the actors as much time as possible to actually be doing the work in that case on that night during a speech into your toughest seen on the page. The gave you the sweats. He came back to again and again. I would say the campfire scene. where. Because it's a, it's a moment where. Niles his is outlook on life is challenged. By the one person that can challenge it and Sarah Outlook on life is challenged. One person challenge it in this. Is a hard thing to navigate because you know they've got them having a bunch of fun and getting to this point, but it's by that campfire that. I. They start to see the other side I guess their character. Start to like maybe think they were. Wrong in themselves as injured. It's like a certain self awareness there while also like. It's where they fall in love. To characters who didn't believe in involve love didn't believe they can experience love. They experienced. To be on staff why like. It became far more clarifying me when I when I realized. That's ultimately what this means about as they're falling in love. Which is why there's dinosaurs in there, because dinosaurs can happen, just like they can't fall in love, but. There's. So therefore they can fall in. Love is just because I like Jurassic Park. That why? I honestly don't know, but it's if those two. Competing parts. Began there there's a lot to accomplish in a scene. In ultimate of there was a much longer seen there. That was rightfully cut shorter. But. Having, there's Dan. Actually only because you're saying it was it. Was it more of his background? Because you know even then he can't. He can't say or won't say what his job was before. All this happened and we learned literally nothing about him, but it. It seems that scene where he's going to give a download I love the fact that he does not give it download so. That that was actually that's been. Many have made discussions about that and. Adding to us, it was always that he. Anti did a great job. Performing this too is when he says I honestly can't remember instead he honestly can't remember. In to a lot of that comes from. Eating I'm still young, but in thirty four and about to be thirty four next week. And I feel my own memory fading, and it's terrifying, and so I think out like he has been in there longer than he has been alive lot longer like he's been in this. Luke long and he was on earth. So of course it's memories fade so flying is like. It was very important to me that he honestly cannot remember what He. What life was like before that yeah, and it will very sad moments in. It's like him realizing that like. Oh God like. This this is it. There ever be a sequel. Because the with J. K. would would would insinuate that there could be a secret if you. Let's let's see how this goes. We have not thought about any kind of sequel. Okay Okay Yeah. Because you've been very generous with your time. I love the film. Don't worry. We'll be able to wake up tomorrow and do this interview over again. I. Yeah but Yeah I. Honestly, I've been buzzing about this foam since sundance so can grass. Thanks for your time. Thank you Ma'am thank you nowadays. and that's how the QNA went down special. Thanks again to director. Maximum McCowan. co-writer Andy Sarah for joining us for today's QNA to talk about their debut feature film Palm Springs and you know it's such a good film I hope you check it out on Hulu or catching drive in there it is, it is absolutely hilarious. I don't want to spoil anything about it hopefully. If you listen to the spoiler sexy, you have already seen the movie otherwise you should have been pressing pause, but make sure to check out palm springs from Hulu because you'll you'll. You'll really love it. It's it's a great summer movie. Of course while you're serving run online I hope you also check out back story magazine. You could find us at www dot, backstory, dot net on a desktop or laptop. You could also find through our IPAD APP, and you read about the last year's worth of issues with the freeze with with your subscription with your subscription and You know we're adding more. More issue's Tour Archive, what about the villa? Last year's worth or up there and were even working on a new issue during quarantine issue number forty two. It's going to have some really special stuff in it stuff that I've been actually trying to get in the magazine for many years. That has finally come come through, so there's GonNa be a great read. Read for you coming up on issue forty two, and if you would like to support as we build issue forty to feel free to subscribe now, you could use coupon code. Save Five, which will save you five dollars off a one year subscription, and you could use that coupon code at backstory, dot, net, and look. It means a lot to me to have. Have a zoom cast listeners and my podcast listener's support, my passion project, so thanks for giving backstory chance Cuna with Jeff Goldsmith is a copyright of unlikely films. Inc and twenty, twenty. All Rights Reserved I'm Jeff Goldsmith the publicist. Baxter in the host of the QNA. They can you for tuning in and telling you to stay out of trouble till next week?
"The Creep Community" (with Kathy Griffin)
"Hello and welcome to hysteria. I'm Erin Ryan this week. ELISSA master Monaco calls in to talk about the bad news the Epstein getting mess and some Good News Elizabeth Warren Making history again then comedian Kathy Griffin joins Karen Deal Naomi Paragon in studio to discuss creeps and creepy nece and as always the hills will die on before we get to the show a little bit of housekeeping. If you want to submit a hill you'll die on you can record eight thirty second voice memo on your phone and send it to hysteria at crooked dot com you can also send questions for dude who'd you asked to hysteria at crooked dot com and we will try to answer them on video on a future episode second item of Business Hysteria Merch is available. It's selling like hotcakes. I you know what why do people say that I feel like people have joked around this. I've never been in a place where I've needed by hotcakes but whatever the tank the muscle tank with the mouth on it is almost sold out so if you want a muscle tank with a hysteria mouth on it then head to store that crooked dot COM to get it before it's gone another item on the agenda parts of America is going on tour. I will be guest co hosting at the show in Denver on July seventeenth and in Salt Lake City on July eighteenth the Denver show is the Belco theater and the Salt Lake City. Show is at the ECCLES theater so you can get your tickets at crooked dot com slash event you can see me on stage podcast with my face. We're talking new thing where I give a shout out to a special group of listeners this week I wanNA give a shout out to members of the Trans and Non Binary Community Kennedy who listen I know a lot of you get in touch over instagram and twitter and the socials and I know also pride month is over but we are always proud that you tune in to the show now. Let's get to it. Hello Hello Eliza that was very musical. I tried that was very musical. Do what can I say lyrical Gal. You are your lear goal. Well Gal genius. I can say that your lyrics have been a bright spot in this week. I've been kind of bummed me to like. What is your main source of being bummed out this week? I suspect it's the same as mine but let's talk talk well. Let's talk I mean I it's hot as FAULK IN UPSTATE NEW YORK. That's just number one okay. You're trapped inside consuming the news sure sure and there's a lot of news is a bum or Yarmur. Where should we even start Alex Acosta Jeffrey Epstein leg? What a basket of deplorables if you will yeah I'm kind of starting to feel like Donald Trump has never met a Caucasian male sex offender? He hasn't wanted to appoint to a cabinet position when he leaves the White House he's going to have like a burning man just for white male sex offender so that they can all get together and talk about how they've Buchan skirted the system and got away with nearly murder yeah. It's it's pretty insane. Let's talk about the Epstein thing. Let's let's talk about the Epstein thing and the way that it ties to our current state of politics because I think Jeffrey Epstein were just adjust just a billionaire if he were a billionaire who happened to know a lot of famous people and those famous people didn't include the president and the Secretary of Labor who cut him a sweetheart deal. I think it would still be a massive new story but in this way it makes makes me almost want to move into a tin foil house because it's like wait if all of these people knew that this was going on for all of this time and all of these men were complicit in in protecting Jeffrey Epstein's I guess proclivities <hes> how how much of the world is devoted to this. How much of the world is devoted to abusing girls and women and covering it up for rich people and literally think it's just not a problem? Don't give it a second thought. Of course we've got your back Jeffrey because you didn't do anything wrong and you know what I think. It's not that they actually think he didn't do anything wrong. It's that they all got some shit in their closets and they're like we can't be like that's the interesting thing I find about this. It's like who is speaking out against it. It's like if you're not speaking out against this if you're not one speaking out against the actual perp but then not speaking out against the people who cut him this irrationally lenient deal why aren't they what have they done and those people chief among them being Alan Dershowitz and Ken Starr who are are defending him like legally but also have histories of their own yeah Elissa honestly if I saw this all written out in the form of an Internet comment before I knew any of this was reported out in true I I would think it was crazy like the the billionaire financier Jeffrey Epstein who's chief client was the head of limited brands lend wexner who which owns Victoria's secret which is already advertised fancy brothel thel his that's his chief client and he was living in the Virgin Islands in Manhattan and Santa Fe and Palm Beach and essentially running underage girls like sort of pyramid scheme of underage rage girls who were being paid to commit sex acts and the people covering up for him included Aleksic Pasta who ten years ago was a federal <hes> he was a U._S.. Attorney in Miami it was Alan Dershowitz who works with the president it was Ken fucking star who made a name trying to make Bill Clinton out like he was some kind of <hes> some some kind of like Predator for like for for engaging sexually really with Monica Lewinsky who shamed a twenty four year old right right yeah. It's just it all seems so like I said before it all seems so tin foil hat what he also just discussed for for one hot second the fact that like something's going on in Palm Beach Remind Bob Kraft here's mar-a-lago there was this trafficking being palace that Epstein had and it's like what is going on down in palm beaming. It has the word palm right in it. I guess I always thought it was sort of a lovely place but now you couldn't pay me to go there. Yeah it does it does seem really bad. Robert Kraft by the way was sitting at the head table at an official White House funk Shaya saw guitar is crazy this honestly if this were written as a t._v.. Show like a true to take absurd I would be like would be like suspend belief and you might be able to get through one episode. Oh yeah like the president would be friends with every rich sex offender that lately unfeasible. If this were a lifetime movie people would be like lifetimes finally jumped the shark with these incredulous incredulous storyline yes completely but the the good news is that Epstein is currently in jail in New York because the southern district of New York decided to go over the Southern District of Florida's homework and essentially charge him with the crimes <hes> with crimes based on new evidence that they've found <hes> another thing. I wanted to talk about it. He's he's facing. I think it's a fifty three page federal indictment yeah that could put them in prison for the rest of his life. I wanted to talk a little bit about <hes> Alex. Costa's attempt at re Image Rehab yesterday. I don't know I don't know if you saw that Elissa but on twitter the list his secretary of Labor tweeted needed something about how like he was glad he was glad that upstate there is new evidence and that prosecutors were going after Epstein and if you are a twitter user any any of the listeners if you guys are twitter users just go ahead and find that tweet and look at how many replies there are to it and look at how many likes I think it was at last time I looked it was twenty thousand replies in like one thousand likes. That's called the ratio friends. That's called getting ratio. He so couple of interesting things so today today Wednesday there is a press he's giving a press conference at two thirty. Which I can imagine is just going to be the personification like the he's just going to live that tweet out loud right because you know he's not making reparation ration- or he's not going to apologize? Let's say <hes> but the other thing about him is that he is going before he came out yesterday and said Oh. I'm so glad that all these things have come to light and now he will he you will you know there will be justice. Okay couple things you knew he was affecting sex offender. You know that he was trafficking girls. So why as Secretary of Labor did you cut the budget that deals with sex trafficking by over fifty million million dollars right I from from the from a sixty five million plus down to like eighteen million eighteen down to eighteen and why did you. I mean like it's just his whole I was. You're like his whole whole deal is like no. You're misunderstanding me. Yes I did the right thing in Florida and tell me I think that I understand this correctly. He had said that the state grand jury back when this was being litigated two thousand eight the state grand jury it was only GonNa charge him with one crime which would have set him free and that he was the you know humanitarian chief who was like no no no we'll turn him with two and he'll register. There's a sex offender and he'll do jail time jail time mind you which was set at eighteen months which he served thirteen and he got out early as a week which six days a week you got to go to his office in continue making money and when he got out early he threw a party for himself wolf and a lot of people attended but listen you bring up a really interesting point the human trafficking the optics and I hate that so much of this administration is running optics but sometimes optics can be used for good. I think recently the president has tried to portray trey himself as an opponent of human trafficking and he's done it in a way that hasn't necessarily been truthful like most things that he does but I think that seeing a cost of being so tied to such a high profile clear case of human trafficking and meanwhile slashing the budget designed to fight human trafficking. I think that that just politically looks bad for the president if he's trying to further himself as but I've had I'm helping women and in in the in the going back to what happened in two thousand eight the most egregious part which any person who is dedicated to law and order S._V._U.. As I am knows that you have to talk to the victims about the plea deal and he he specifically didn't he specifically kept the victims in the dark and you just have to wonder why why if it was so if he did such a good thing if he got more than the state grand jury was going to do then why wouldn't he have included the victims in the discussion right and it's because he's a terrible person. I think that that is something that like as the Secretary of Labor who oversees sex trafficking. I actually do think that's enough for people to be like you've to fucking quit goodbye yeah he has to quitter. He has to be impeached but I do want to say one nut silver silver lining. I guess I'll ahead I wanted to talk. I want to talk a little bit of a Julie K. Brown. I WanNa talk about the Miami Herald Herald reporter who went after this. Don't you say that she is our collective toast for this week. I think that she absolutely is a collective toast for this week. Julie K. Brown journalist for the Miami Herald who for I think two years was chasing this story down and talked talked to the victims that accosted did not talk to she was able to get them to talk to her on the record she was able she. She likes stocked Epstein around trying to get them to talk to. He wouldn't talk to her and I was reading a New York Times profile of her. They just published this week and basically the closest she's ever been to Epstein was when she was at his trial on Monday and she said he looked small to her which I love about Julie K. Brown came up from low class. Middleclass asked roots worked her ass off paid for her own Jay School. She's a she's a she's a pit bull and she's amazing and the people of Palm Beach and America are lucky to have her and as we saw with Harvey Weinstein and other people whose <hes> you know sexual violence was brought to light by really good reporters just a few days after her piece on is published new New People new women are coming out of the woodwork are being like yes. This happened to me too this morning on the today. Show Jennifer arose arose. Do you know how to say her last name. I'm not positive but there was a new woman who came forward today correct yes and she was fifteen years old and she said the memory of him raping her that it was rape that did happen that she's just so upset. She didn't come forward because it could have helped so many other people like it could have stopped him so it's amazing that this woman who was violated feels more guilt about what happened than any of these fucking rich white men <hes> yeah that is that's. That's depressing but you know another thing going back to Alan. Dershowitz Alan Dershowitz personally called the he he lobbied the Pulitzer Committee after Julie Brown's work was published last fall and called it fake news and shoddy reporting and advocated against it winning any awards so I'll because he was afraid no and I'm Martha's Vineyard was GonNa talk remaining more look if Alan Dershowitz loves real America so much. Why is he constantly trying to hang on Martha's vineyard? That's all go to cracker barrel Alan Dershowitz. Those people go. That's those. Are Your people. Go there anyway worse. I I see is definitely the worst but right now. I'm glad that Julie Brown is still out there still fighting and I'm glad that the story is playing out in public and I hope that Jeffrey Epstein Rawson Jail Julie K is the Meghan Re Pino of journalism awesome absolutely real quick one more story before we have to go because this time always goes by way too fast I know and this is actually a good story. This is a this is a good story. Our Girl Elizabeth Warren crushing it crushing it Eliza. What did you think when you found out how much she brought in this last quarter to you mean that Elizabeth Warren raised nineteen point one million dollars by having plans and talking about them by raising raising all of that money without doing one fundraiser without dealing with any lobbyists just from the American people who on average gave her forty eight dollars per donation yes? That's what I'm talking to me. I'm GonNa tell you I did whole dance in the produce aisle at the Hannaford down the street. I felt really good about it. Because what did we say when we first started talking about twenty twenty that it was incumbent upon us and everybody else to like read what people not listen to what reporters were saying. All the candidates were talking about looking actually listening to what they were doing and e. W has just been like the rapid fire. You know plan every week or every couple of days because she's actually been thinking about. About her reason for being president and what she could bring and so we've called her the tortoise and I think that she is she's surpassing the hair yeah she her her campaign has been really impressive and not only has it been refreshing. Turn to be able to actually read a plan from a candidate and to be confident that every time something bad happens at Elizabeth Warren is probably thinking about it and developing a plan. I think that she's raised the quality of this race ace generally speaking because there are other candidates who aren't by any means bad who I find very interesting. Some of them did really won't debate stage. Some of them are are candidates that I would consider supporting in the primary. Some of them are candidates that that I think would make great presidents but they've all kind of elevated their game and I think Elizabeth Warren has been leading the way and the American people seem to acknowledge that and appreciate that and that's where the nineteen point one million dollars came from no fundraisers unless uh-huh fundraise. That's crazy so proud so I was so excited yeah. It's it's a million dollars more than Senator Sanders and seven million dollars more than Harris. I mean I was going to say now that it's contest. It absolutely is a contest but not that we think that those two are bad. Were just very very proud of Elizabeth Warren for being such an unconventional candidate and you know what if she gets the nomination she could totally change the way presidential politics where exactly and because months ago when she announced she wasn't going to do high dollar fundraisers wasn't GonNa take lobbyist money all that stuff the entire chattering class was like oh sad it's because she knows she's doing badly wants an excuse for why she's not going to raise money and it's like that scene in goodwill hunting. It's just like how do you like me now. How do you like them apples else? I like them apples yeah and then one more thought before we go yes. I think that an important thing for people to remember is if we take a look at these fundraising numbers. These were a lot of people just making small decisions by themselves and anytime anybody tries to think who's electable who's not electable. Just take a look at how many people chose to donate to Elizabeth Warren or Bernie Sanders or any candidate that has a campaign that is funded mostly by small donations is electable because because they have moved that many people to open up a browser window type in their credit card number and hit donate that is that means that she is electable so anybody who's kind of still tossing around the can a woman be president thing and trying to play pundit. Who is that one really bad one on morning joe that one really bad you know I'm talking Donnie Joy yes anytime anybody tries to play you know pundit as a woman electable as a woman not electable? Just take a look at what Elizabeth Warren did this last quarter. She's absolutely electable electable and don't let punditry influence what you think as a voter exactly okay well. I guess our toes this week was to Julie K. Brown from the Miami Herald for both of us. Yes and we'll save our roads for next week. Then yeah next week will be like a big roast. Oh Yeah it's a one hundred percent going to be a roast. It's it's like marshmallow roasting season so we're going to do some roasting. I'll bring the Graham crackers excellent talk to you then Eliza okay bye bye. This episode of hysteria is brought to you by native deodorant native create simple effective products that people use the bathroom every day less is more with native they have fewer simple ingredients. You know everything that's deodorant. Native native is formulated without aluminum parabens and talk aluminum may be linked to some serious health ramifications including breast cancer and Alzheimer's native comes in a wide variety of enticing sense for men and women plus they released new limited edition seasonal sense throughout the year I wonder would it be like to just wear like Christmas deodorant and go into a room and have another native Deodorant user. I smell that that's Christmas deodorant. It's July you monster. 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When you download the door DASH APP from the APP store and enter Promo Code Hysteria again that's Promo code hysteria for five dollars off your first order from door dash and we're back with the section of the show where we talk about personal issues that spill into the political we call a personal political? I WanNa bring in the wonderful women with me this week I we have comedian writer and host of the couple's therapy podcast Naomi Baragan. Hey girls welcome welcome. Welcome back to go to Europe with your mom. Oh I did indeed and as you know it was a process. Did you guys get along. We did our best. We did our best and I think that sometimes your best is all you could do. Oh boy your mom after this and get her side by side. You had her on the phone now. Get her on the phone. Now stick around next week. Naomi's mom Naomi's mom and just me it's just a one on on for the week next up. We have actor comedian and director and Multi Hyphen of other things that I'm probably not saying encompassing Karen deal. I'm walking walking. I just got back from New York. I can tell by the way I like that. You're turning into are you into the old Jon voight or the old Dustin Hoffman because Jon voight is very confusing to me. I'm old coming home envoy. It can take a long walk right Jimmy Woods what happened to those two you. Their careers started ending and they were like I can get attention by being Miller. I need a job yep totally and last but not least you here. You've heard her talking throughout the doctor for the first time on hysteria. She is a comedian. She is a provocateur. She is the star of the new film Kathy Griffin a hell of a story. It's Kathy Griffin. Oh my God is your book her book <hes> I I have to mention the that the movies out in theaters thirty-first yes. It's part of this thing that the kids like called fathom event. Have you heard of this know what it's a whole new thing okay so is that like him and fasting yes bulletproof. You're not allowed to eat okay now l.. They pick a movie and this is I mean let's face it. It's the DOCU comedy get it. I invented genre so the first third is a raw documentary as in Kathy ugly crying no makeup and then the second two-thirds are comedy concert laughs all abound around but tells the whole trump scandal and what they do is they show it for one night one showing only seven hundred theaters across the United States. Oh my God I know edgy. That's very edgy. Did you see the new season of Black Mirror. No the first episode contains a plotline where they try to make a digital copy of a pop star and they're like she can have seven hundred concerts at the same time like a Hologram yeah yeah. She won't ever get tired but I'm glad that this is a movie and not a Hologram version. I heard that <hes> Tony Robbins is is trying to do a Hologram tour to save money and I want you to know that after my trump scandal Tony Robbins sent me one of his stupid disc sets and isn't he the one that poke the woman in the chest who said I'm a metoo survivor. We'll fuck that guy yeah any sent you discs discs. What are you supposed to play discs joe no in his mansion in Florida where he doesn't pay state taxes? I picture him to have like a very large entertainment system. Oh definitely man yeah which is also why that poking was even worse. No Alabama's like he's massive massive person imagine whatever it is entertainment center is multiplied by ten yeah a lot of masculinity. I like free things. Oh as Aaron would have just been happy to get the free three redeem hearing just a lot of shade thrown at everyone else's like me too and I was like tell me more about this paraffin. Who Do you think I should be gifted to name a celebrity that you'd be here in deal? There's somebody look at is Kathy all right. You're right. I'M GONNA have it shipped to you here one on that no. Let's get into the topic that we're going to discuss. Yes Shea in this week Cathy. I wanted to bring up this topic because I think that you of all people are uniquely positioned to talk about it because you have encountered so many of them so publicly mainly the creep in chafee three point. It's it's you know the Epstein story is a pandemic creamy as he's on sorry is did it really great bit creepy yeah. We need to talk about creeps because I think that as women we all kind of we all kind of know it. We know we know and we see it. It's like hardcore pornography. We know bright but we need to hardcore pornography that we should talk about this great. Dacians of pornography ruled that hardcore pornography was an I know when I see it situation it was a whole thing it was like twenty thirty years ago. Don't worry about it. anyways hard certainly find now totally fair and balanced overall five on the supreme court now not so cathy. I wanted to kick this off by asking you in your definition. What is a creep? Well I mean I think Epstein is just he's. He's already convicted Felon Chow Bluster so he goes beyond creek right but I will say he's sorry story is creepy and what I read that op Ed. I don't want to even get into the like. Was it appropriate or not appropriate. I've been that girl where you go on a date with a guy and things are being weird and then you end up blowing him and you kind of feel like you were violated 'cause you were 'cause you kind of went against your instincts so I'm not accusing him of rape but he's a fucking creep. He's a creep and I hate that all the boys club circle the wagons as usual like they're going to do with Louis C.. K. and all the other ones and they're so terrified that if one goes down there next and my theory is it is the creep community around the creep of the day sure well also. It sounds like Naomi. It sounds creepy. Behavior is behavior that is not totally wanted. That's behavior. That's like forced on without consent. Would you build on that definition. Of course I will. It's it's both it's not you know bill coming at someone without their consent but also because I think the thing a lot of women deal with I'll speak for my experiences when you don't want to heighten the situation don't know how dangerous a person could become in the face of rejection action so sometimes you know it is that for me a creep is a person who one doesn't see the person they're kind of creepy hacking creeping out as as a human it's like an object and they're also not reading that person's queues us whether that cue is. I don't like you just period like hey guy on the train. Don't stop talking to me more like your way too close to me physically right now at this dinner party and I need you to move out of the way because that was one time time Naomi's herein relax see that it's creepy that she told me to relax relax community day pass. I will say that we're free gift together. We'll say you were like you're Alex. Epstein from Florida almost like I'm from Florida is he's in sorry Indian. I was like these are my people just terrible terrible epicenter of the creep. I'm the epicenter of the creep community literally existence yeah exactly so unwanted behavior that is like I think the objectification thing is really important too because it's like but if their objective on you why would they. Why would you be sending any cues you're right? You're not a person in the they can't even read you can send every shoe in the world and they're still feel like not having it right and I think a lot of the creepy guys think like this is called game. You know this is the difference yeah game has charm creep is creep and also again and even game the act of a game. I've got to be planning to yeah you know what I mean. If you'RE GONNA kick your game to somebody who doesn't WANNA play it's not game right. You're just throwing a basketball at my head. I'm not playing like I was reading a book Karen. What would you you classify as creepy behavior everything okay no no no? I will say these are these are really interesting because these are very t- like because the Epstein thing is so <hes> it's it's such an extreme example of the behavior of your <hes> but like the thing I can be hard with creepy. NECE is sometimes one person thinks that they're being charming and funny and cool and like this is a mutual witty banter that we're having an I'm like being flirty and then the other person is like dude. We're in an office right. What the fuck or lashing you physically away from Jack McHugh an end like a in the Z's thing to me like I like? I have always like really thinking about just before coming on because it's like I never liked to disparage Indians publicly because what about privately always different. I don't feel that way about women or like you know whatever with like my community I was like aren't really that many Indians gene so don't really like to say anything but the thing that I have always liked the thing that really upset me with the thing is it's like because Aziz. It isn't the same level I mean he wasn't having you know underage subtlety because it's a different thing comparis- there's no one's making that comparison we're just seeing their names in the same sentence together repeatedly referring to criminal again and again separate way in a very separate way separate but equal so like but but for me the thing thing that was very upsetting about Z's it's like is that he built his brand on feminism he went out on like many late night platforms and it was like I'm a feminist. I'm a feminist and then it's like he had a book called the Modern Romance that is a best best selling New York Times Book and then he has a show called fucking master of none dare like on the show the first episode he's like fucking some girl and buys her plan B. and every time I think about that I am filled with the rage that. It's still partly a residual of New York charming. I remember watching him to the book press thinking like good for him. He's being open about difficulties. He has dating and he's being vulnerable to that was part of his creepy game but my and where was the claw like where's the claw in master of none. Where's the dry humping girls but in master of none of you will literally had a show that is dealing with the the notion and the nuances of modern romance and there's some like conscious subconscious thing where you like know certain behavior isn't acceptable adaptable you do it behind closed doors and then it's like Oh? I was like so confused I was like were you confused or were you genuinely just like not giving a fuck about anyone else and then you're going to go with B.. Is that like he's twelve years old. He's obviously he's had a television show. Several television version shows I would say this is a honed creepiest yet right. I watched the special last night. It'd be was it it was I watched the first part of it because I wanted to see what he had to sell repentant. Yeah I mean I'm glad that he brought it up yeah. I'm glad that he wasn't just he's not just Louis C. King his way through it but he seems like a person who is deeply wounded by all of this which is totally understandable because I think that the reason that he has been so singled out is because he's a famous guy but I I think a lot of guys have done things just like him sure and he's the one who has become the face of this behavior and whether or not that's fair that's what is and so it was like watching somebody who is still very shaken shaken and reckoning with something that had happened that was maybe disproportionate to the actual offense that he thought was just something that happened privately so I was there any part of you though the things that that was orchestrated <hes> I don't know like if if it were me and I had done that trust me my neck special I would be very careful. Phrase it in a way that lets the audience know like Hey. There are women in the audience. I get it. I'm aware of it right so I'm going to have to watch it because I'm not I wanna see if it's like I I would say watch the beginning part just because that's when he talks about it and I like him as a guy. I've met him several times and he couldn't be nicer. So I watched the clip I watched the clip and it felt very like aw shucks in a little bit of like the southern Twang was coming out and Spike Jones shot it who's like kind of a guy's guy go and it's all just saying an all skateboarders and then it's like those like intimate shots and then it's like you know we're on stage and it's like all of that's like a good film maker and he's a phenomenal film. Media are like also really knows what they're fucking. I'm doing let me sit on the stool. It's also very privileged situation like I'm seriously looked at the other Indian in the room and he just looks at me and he's just like no way disappointed. I'm just saying that is a real gift to have Netflix Fund. I like Spike Jones to do your special so I mean it's like you know somebody had to Haskell. Wexler shoot their special and it was like a special also he probably had a lot of help from that team who knows how to make a film joke itself. Though in the words themselves I think are worth parsing and again you know this is like us focusing all our attention on his sorry but he's the reason that it was so resident is because it was so common right nuanced yeah in between the lines of of appropriate not appropriate you know creep a really creepy. We're not saying AGR- aggravated assaults yeah. We're not saying you know a kiss on the cheek. It's that I don't know I for one have been in that situation and so I when I read that op Ed I was ah I've been there several times right yeah it was it was he said that one of the things is Kinda. Sticking a lot of people's Kraaz is that he talked to a friend after that that whole thing he never really named it kind of goes Jiffy episode the whole thing if their if their friend so I had to commiserate so I called Alex Acosta strings for me so go for it yeah the the Court of public opinion let you off with a slap on the wrist but he <hes> yeah the the words that he used were like yeah and my friend said that he examined his behavior and if that's what came out of this then I guess it was a good thing sort of okay yeah that is that for me is the funky part this idea that he's giving us a gift exac- what he did something to someone that made them feel so violated and so terrible that they chose to put this out in an article on yeah and you're like you know. We don't know that girl's name still right. You know what I mean. We still don't I know that girl. I don't blame her. That was that was also bad journalism bye bye babe dot net that was like everyone I know that like works had that beat or that was working in the beat of like sexual abuse. We're all like rubbing our temples like no why do it that way. It was so salacious so one source it was a lot wrong with it yeah but the girl is still anonymous well right but the but again like what the the decision to put that out there like that you know to me is indicative of the level of you know inner turmoil turmoil in pain that person out fear the person felt to kind of to to go there and then take that and say well it helped a buddy examined him sale right was it Chris hardwick actually very similar to the Chris harboring situation and Chloe Dykstra definitely took a hit for that I mean she put her name on that medium and the Gamer community went after her and she's like a gorgeous redhead as that is and so I thought it was brave of her to tell that story but boy relatable because you're both redheads. We're both both married to her but you know I've known hard work for a long time and so he and his army sort of came after me because I just I have reposted it or stick up for her that I'm definitely in the I'm GonNa believe the woman I probably shouldn't be the Supreme Court Damaso evidence. I tend to believe the women I and also I know her and you guys might know her but you know the level of of hatred and vitriol that you take and I mean Khloe also was like from the gaming world and all that's done so I would say there are situations are a little bit similar the thing in the hardwick thing <hes> but the Harvard thing like when she wrote that story about him you know her her getting an abortion and then him like going right up to the doctor going so I can have sex sir tonight right like we can have sex tonight once again. We're not saying you're Jeffrey Epstein but you are younger. Maybe is an object to that person is yes and then they circle the wagons around hardwick and he's got like seventeen shows on N._B._C. so you bring up a really interesting point because you say you you know to people who have been very publicly creepy Aziz and Chris and yes Louis. I know all the yeah yeah all the creeps. Did you bring photographs with all of them list of WHO's going to get too who'd have hung up a bunch of sandwich shops style pictures of her posing and pointing in the studio today. You can't extra calendar firemen's hot firemen now. It's just everybody was incre- creep of the month that actually Shaw for years and years weekly daily it can Almanac like like farside days like things he just peel it off. I don't think it really is a big part of it is the way the other Bro Circle the wagons. I hate that I'm fifty eight and I'm still still experiencing bros before hoes. When are we going to get it together to stick together like the guys? Do I mean what are the hell is going to get it together. Yes those are together. We're in this together technically. The hose aren't together right now. This is where we're this is the rally but I know that if I turn my back for one second you would talk crap. I WanNa go where the hell's that box set you think. How is it not here immediate I will yesterday Nikki Glaser tweeted something about <hes>? He seemed like a perfectly nice guy people talking about sex offenders. I'm like I feel like all of us know somebody or have encountered somebody who were like yeah. They're perfectly nice. Oh fuck they were that. How do you handle that well? I think it depends on who you are to me. Just being a comic for so long like if I can quote my pal Rosie O'Donnell I hope she's not offended but she was talking about Harvey Weinstein and she said I think she'd done three once movies and she genuinely didn't know that part about him and she goes you know griffin girls like us. They WANNA call US comes but they don't want our conce and honestly what's what I find is. I really do know a lot of these guys and I mean I don't mean to sound like I'm not enough but they do talk to a woman been like myself. Who's almost more masculine because I'm in a male dominated field and so I can't really act like I know what that's like to be? The I guess object of desire you know they kind of see me more as like the punch on the arm but once again we all have to get together and and protect each other in that way so I don't want the girls that were me to to see me as like Oh you don't get it. You're just noxious comic and I don't want to look at those girls and be oh well. You are movie star. Quit bitching so I I still think we got a lot of work to do about come really coming together but timid to me like how I feel about because I feel that same way like meeting that personality meaning I don't I've never been on the receiving end of that kind of behavior from just known creeps but to me the moment I find it. You're creep your trash. Even if you didn't do something to me and I will talk about it. I have no qualm. Bring it up. I think sometimes he was like well. I wasn't involved so I'm not gonNA say anything like a political way would you. I'm not saying we all tell tales out of school but the point is like if I hear that you have been trashed ash to somebody you interact anymore now. I don't necessarily have to make that a rallying cry again like you gotTa handle your issues which Oh God and hopefully the police like but it's like I'll I will conduct myself in a way that says I'm not around anymore. I'm not doing anything that gives you money capacity. It's good enough for me that someone that I trust and think is legit said the following things as long as I've examined. Do they really have a motive. Do they have an agenda <hes> well. They don't I mean these these women coming forward. They obviously have no agenda. They feel more guilty than anything right so I find it you know as you know point five of one percent of rape cases that go to trial get conviction right so that's something that like I still think we need to get into the mail consciousness over and oh well whatever reason case I'm so sorry to come and hysteria and I have my name's down but the reason case the judge. The boy literally texted when you're first time is rape to his friends like me got him in writing saying he did it. The judge me like this is a smart boy with a good future ahead. Someone should have thought about so much told the victim about what coming forward and prosecutor pressing facing charges would mean for him yeah fault I mean there were still living in a her fault society and also let's face it. A lot of these judges are white dinosaur and we all know it and the white guys love it and the women are like when you guys GonNa <hes> you know I will have to people on the Supreme Court who've I've been accused of sexual harassment the highest quarter of the land where there's nine people in this lifetime appointment. I think that says exactly it's exactly where we're at nine. People are creeps two out of nine two out of nine it's like and they just made it to the top quarter of the land and then you want me to believe injustice in America right well Coco <hes> but what I was GonNa say is when I started standup. I remember getting so much bullshit and I've never been a person who like you know I don't I present myself as like bullshit yeah well. I mean like it would it would be like I would be trying to be nice and charming and like meeting people at the Improv or whatever it was and it was like immediately getting hit on in a way that like I grew up being like the smart person in my school so I was actually very offended. You know I was like how dare you up to. Who the fuck do you think I am also? I'm like pretty mean. What is wrong with you? How dare you think that you can talk to me? Serve You well. You're stick with it. I like it. The guys don't do that. I mean obviously guy. Comic doesn't go to the hey you look hot tonight tonight and so that still goes on in clubs and theaters in comedy to this minute and that hasn't changed in. I've been doing it for thirty years. And how do you navigate like especially when you're starting is like a young woman. If you're getting hit on a bunch of times where it's like what I found was like somebody would ask me to lunch or somebody would ask you know and I was like I'm not interested or I'd be like Oh. I don't deep comics or blanket. I won't date comics and then I wouldn't get put on that show again. Well yeah or the way sometimes I feel like. They will what a lot of guys will do to. It'd be like yeah. Come Mike and then you Kinda Mike. That's the way the initial lura right because they know that's what you really want to be doing. What you want and then there will be like while you're here arm around you? Let's go hang out. You don't really I it's so frustrating when in and I had a couple early expensive just like hooking up with a guy a couple of comics in the reason why I very quickly stopped because what happened for me and this is on me like you know they were consensual situations but then I got all crazy and ahead who need us what happened but then I I wouldn't go to that microphone if I'm trying to do this. I can't risk that already to now places. I can't go in the West village now. Well that brings up a really interesting point because it seems like sometimes people meant when the Weinstein stuff was going going down and when Steve Wynn was being accused of basically running a Weinstein type operation out of Vegas the Republican Party as scary as the S._T. and Weinstein they have this apparatus is so deep in so layered is horrifying yeah yeah when all not one person is going to pull out the house of cards and go. I'm not gonNA play right now. One person has the balls to go. I'm going to stop to this. Is I think they would i. I hate to say it. They'd probably listen to the dude who goes this is cool yeah more than one of us and that's what the culture shift right now is supposed to be. I think hopefully the ones are going to have the whole thing. The whole point of like me too and all of that shit is that it's like. That's that that this it's like if you see something say something because when it's when you're in an apparatus where like your paycheck is coming from Harvey. Do you know what I mean. It's like what you fucking like. Maybe you've you committed a crime yourself clean pyramid scheme. I would think some of those folks may be liable. As toothless questions for both for the Epstein eighteen situation also harvey though the women who were used as baits and lures. Yeah you know also usually working for those people so your pay is dependent but they have you know put them in there because what I hear over and over in the case of Weinstein or even F._C.. You know I was reading an article. <hes> another victim came forward recently today and it was you know these men who also they prey on the ambition of yes women whether it's a fourteen year old who wants to be a model or an actress. She wanted to be a dancer. Dan You hear this guy has connections and leg. I thought she the greatest thing she said was because people really forget this. I loved when she said I mean come on. I was fourteen who knows what they're doing on their fourteen and I thought that's such a great thing to dispel the myth of because I mean my whole life I come from you know like I said I'm the oldest one here and when I grew up literally discussions in my house were if a man rapes his wife. Is it rape. That's how bad it was still happening in parts of America but discussions are still happening. I remember number quick covering this. When I was working gel there was like something p people there are still marital rape laws on the books that are like people are debating whether or not it's possible ignorance still happening but I think going back toward the apparatus of everything and and you know depending on a certain structure to give you money or I guess maybe the mindset? If you're a woman that's getting through. It's just like I just need to get through this level and then I passed through this level and then I'll be on like the easy that I'll be on an easier level and I don't think a lot of these purpose also tell them Oh that's how it worked with so and so like when you hear Weinstein going well I slept with Paltrow and look at where she is now well then you read her op Ed and it's heartbreaking as well right well and it's also like they tell you that they will kind of help you along but it seems like their their ambition is fueled by a desire to victimize right like it feels to me like Weinstein was just in the movie business because he just wanted to do great creative visionary also also totally do rapes. It doesn't matter you don't rape you do rate. He was on a nine to five schedule. We do lunch yeah he. He does rape so same thing Epstein. It seemed like he was just like yeah. I'M A I'M A mysterious billionaire. Who Somehow made money questions we newsy his tax returns as well and I'm doing air quotes very mysterious and the other thing that is still shocked me? When I read the loop yonyoung-ho op ed I thought of the Nerve Weinstein to go? Here's a Harvard Grad brilliant actress and yet they're clearly far beyond that like thinking like well. I think she was Yale Cathy. I go but I'm from the wrong side. I went to junior college occasionally but you know the I. I guess that's another thing where they get to a point where they think. It doesn't matter who you are doesn't matter how talented you are accomplishments. I've been getting away with this that I'm GonNa keep doing it will okay correct me if I'm wrong but I feel like I remember what made me so angry about. After lupita piece came out that was the only person Harvey Weinstein like piped up about about interesting meaning in the really responsive where he was just like absolutely not or something like that and I like John For me I. I assume that that's very realized yeah. When it came to everybody else you know yes then? Lupita says something he was like excuse me you kept you ask quiet until now because I think he feared the wrath of the black community because I think the black community frankly he's better at getting together and mobilizing not unlike the L._G._B._T.. Community and they're used to mobilizing because of having to and I think also she's such a beloved figure like he really he thinks the wrong bitch to rate. Let me just say but you know she has such gravitas behind hind her though I think even he is an I would like to trump not going for Michelle Obama even that fool you know. Don't don't that's right one thing that might be helpful like when I was doing research for my film I talked to a sexual harassment expert who worked in the Anita Hill case and whatever else and so I was kind of asking about the gradations of like the difference between like what makes somebody a serial harasser versus like and so she kind of had these gradations and I guess you could say degradation of cree penis and I found it very interesting and helpful and so she was like and she was talking about in the world of astronomy where there's like a science because I was writing a movie about astronomy and so she was saying in the in the academic world she goes there certain guys who were like like there was a guy out of <hes> out of Caltech who kind of quote unquote fell in love with two of his graduate students and then kind of kicked them out of the department which is like you know which is like and when you love it when your power and it's like and because it's such a pyramid scheme to Lake Mead successful in that business. It's like if you like lose your thesis adviser. You're so it's like it's got a very similar to entertainment. It's like you need that benefactor. You need that person to help. Bring you up matriculate because like that's how you can kind of rise in this business so it becomes very high stakes and the ratio I in in Caltech as well as Hollywood the ratios. There's like ten to one comedy. I can't which is one of the places where most of the stuff happens. A male dominated environments like just in general and that is whether it is philosophy whether it's in stem sciences whether it's an an academic institution Lincoln some of the best ones countries less world exactly exactly that's like in finance combating is all when there isn't like gender parody and it makes such a massive difference for the way that women get treated but this the one thing I think is very interesting about that is in this case. She was like that's a man. She looked at that and she was like that's a man who's incredibly poorly socialized. That's a man who looks at that situations like these women are being really nice to me. She digs me now. He can't go to a bar he doesn't have he never developed the social skills to be able to understand so helix falls in love with him and it comes from his own like deep naievety hey and like kind of total lack of understanding what relationships are like between people did various entitlement also one hundred percent and it's still terrible and it's still inexcusable but she made and she was like instill all of those things you know what I mean. It's like a if if you're sixty and you feel like you're twenty Grad. Student is fucking digging you would she would you think that station or yeah or if you were at a bar didn't should be digging you then or do you think maybe it has to do with our show is a white doesn't WanNa fuck him anymore and then they'll end so and verses says and then versus are this is like a Ted talk about versus. Don't forget about this but <hes> versus the like <hes> versus the Weinstein like the cereal harasser the Predator Predator where really does come down to the notion of power and it comes down to like <hes> Bill Clinton when he had his <hes> affair with Monica Lewinsky it was at the lowest point in his presidency at that time it was associated with ego. It's associated with like a way to make oneself feel better where like with your own self esteem <hes> and raising that self esteem and exerting that power over other other people primarily as opposed to like coming from like the Janke not understanding the relationship which is why the person is running the same game over for an over and over and over and over again on but the first version of that you're telling is like a person who's awkward and that's a little bit that you feel a little bad for that person. I feel like people in the second category constantly. Try to push themselves into the first category. Oh I didn't <music> Predator wanted to act like I'm just kind of dorky right. They're they're predators right very good and I also think they honed their skills the born they knew absolutely you're good at it. Yeah found out how to find these girls in a crowded room of thousand he'd go. There's the one who's news somehow in a vulnerable place where I can prey upon and that's what grooming is grooming is the ability to be like and he was a big rumor. Grooming is the ability to be like you know if Naomi and I were at that party one time. Do you know what I mean and it's like an I put my hand on your shoulder. I put my hand on your knee or that. Guy Puts the hand on the waist or whatever else and it's like. There's going to be a girl. There's going to be girl who might be Erin. Who's going to be like get your fucking hand off my ass? You know or get your hands off of me and then there's going to be another girl who's like kind of nervous and doesn't want to rock the boat or whatever else and just like ha ha ha but feels very uncomfortable uncomfortable and that to that Predator is a sign or a green light to be like okay cool. I guess now I can like put my arm around now. I can do the next thing now. I can do. The really said so. They're they're like all of those like every moment that you don't say no is is how is how you find yourself in that situation. That was accused that I'm not even saying these women put out. Those accused of these guys are looking for. That's absolutely choose for themselves. Oh Yeah I remember the first time that a guy was creepy toward you. Yes what was it it was a guy on a date with and he was <hes> he wanted to have sex and I just didn't want to and he just got so aggressive that I remember I was living in Santa Monica in my control days and I remember running out of his apartment and him chasing me to my car and I had like my parents dodge dart by the way and I get in the car and I'm the host but I admit the whole time I was doing the female de-escalation thing right because I wasn't about Zander in the street and scream because I didn't know some bro would combine go be quiet bitch or whatever so I was just like hey maybe next time I gotta go like the whole thing I was like. I was doing something bad and I'll never forget this guy. I know I know it's an expression you know I dragged him but honestly I couldn't close the door and I was like if I don't keep driving he's getting because he's so much stronger than me and I he held onto the open door for a few days and then I closed the door and once again like you said I was out of there and never back and never returned to call you know where does deeply vilely trying really scary but I also admit at that Asia. I'm fifty eight now so it's probably like twenty three or something like that. I also remember not feeling comfortable telling my friends much less my parents because I I think I think at that time I probably had friends. You know this is decades ago that maybe would have been split like half would have been like Oh my God that's horrifying and half would have been like what do you you do. Have you guys seen your act. Come up do and I'm watching home with him. I didn't you know any buyer right. Why what how would you have not read those social cues in the bar like all of that Shit? That would've how how did you how were you not clever enough enough to know that this person was going to try and I I mean I shouldn't laugh because it's funny but the thing that I sort of chuckle out because it's been so long is you could make fun of me. He was a Buddhist and right before he chased me out to me. He was doing like the nominee ranki co and like I remember thinking what a peaceful meditate had the whole thing with the candles goals in the bell and the whole thing and I remember thinking Oh this is a respectful quiet place next thing you know I'm running out the door. I know like my take off Dodge Dart only Naomi. Do you remember the first time someone who's a creep to you. I do not remember her specifics but I feel like there were moments when I was maybe a teenager and again what I look back on because I think it'd be thing I didn't have very high self esteem especially with regard to my physical appearance so that's that's a part of that game to be more. It's like you know so there. Were Times for me. Were to get someone's attention was like Nice. I was like Oh wow me really yeah but then looking back. I'm like Oh shit. That was inappropriate for me. I associated with a lot of like lower back touching you. You know what I mean like like on but without anything happening like when you're at a bar and a guy coming pass you in like grabs you but by yeah like that where it's like. I guess what I'm saying is it was anonymous stuff people. I didn't necessarily know or have like an into interpersonal relationship win but to have that kind of touching or hey sweetheart I've got a question and there's a reason they do it when they're walking behind you because they know that you kind of don't have time to process it and go like hey and then they're gone in the next one when they're behind you. You don't have a face which goes along with them or for them. It's like an another part of the objective creep flooding back but I remember there's a game mommy went home. We went out. There's a guy met at a party and he was like like at a bar out and he was cute and he was like looking at me and then like and then he's looking to get your number okay fine and then he calls me up the next day and again those things we're looking back. We look he must really like Mike Me. Yes and I'm like no no no. He's speeding up the process yeah right. Get me on the phone by like day one so we can see me day three then we went to some part we we went to a bar and then he was like Oh yeah. My friend owns place. There's like a room upstairs and you know we went to the room stares and he pulled out his Pena and asked me to hold it well. Of course I'm sure hold was the gateway to you know what I mean but yeah it was something whereas like it was like we were up there. Nobody body else was there at Ino- what I could conceivably do borrowed like Oh. This is like the Special Secret V._I._P.. Area and my friend owns it so if anything happens the friend will come up and hear my cries like he set it up perfectly green and then it was like and that's the first time I'm suspecting for this guy. I'm sure sure but that's just crazy how initially when he called me the next day. I was like who I am in you know he likes me and I'm like Oh. No no no. This was all this yeah talk. There's so many like yeah but one I was thinking of that might be a nice gradation from this is like I remember one time. I really really liked to do it in college. You know who like beautiful writer and like has this like really like romantic pantic kind of lyrical style of writing like lent me these books like from his family and then it was like I return the books on Halloween. Mom Don't listen to this episode eighty salinger daughter. I was like I love the way she because she's like wants to be supportive and listening interesting. Oh well let you send them. The podcast that you were going to be dating so how listening listening all the PODCASTS. It's very restricting. It'd be like no. She's going to hear this one. Sorry freaking. I was just trying to be supporting get all upset all our parents our moms should have together and then they can have one. It's your fault. Your phone is a one on one with area. It's a deal in Paraguayan Combo Abo- but like I remember you had these <hes> so it was I was returning the books and it was like Halloween and then he had he had this like pictures like photo albums of his family and he's like showing me all these photos of like his family and whatever else and talking about you know his mom or whatever else I'm like asking me about my family and we're in like a class together and he's like tracing my hand with holiday with the family elbow probably stock photos catalog. I I remember like now I look back and I remember there was like there was this is funny. I remember there was a there is a photograph of him unlike shirtless holding a trumpet and I was like like already and I was like that's a grinder appropriate but I go and I go oh do you do you play and he was like no no. He didn't play the trumpet. It's like where'd you get the trumpet. Why were you holding? Where's your blazer? What's going on but anyway so I remember thinking like this is like a really nice guy and we hooked up that night like we hooked up and then it was like and then I remember member immediately immediately after the hookup was done like I'm talking like immediately like he <hes> he was like oh just just to be clear like I'm just like not interested in anything? This is kind of like a one time thing. I'm like super busy. I'm like you know writing all this to be so honest just the wrong yeah. I was like immediately after and I remember like a really felt like a like a sucker punch I remember being like wow and I and I remember that night. I remember like so it was like staying in the bed because I didn't want to make him feel uncomfortable and I remember having this very specific moment at like. I remember like I couldn't sleep and then I was like I have to see this person's like as college. I'm going to see their roommates in the morning and I remember like looking at the clock and it was like three in the morning and it was like an in my own mind it was here in like why that was shitty like you don't have to be here. You don't have to be here like and I was just like okay. Just try to get up really quietly unlike having alcohol internal monologue and I got up and I was like I gotta go yeah. Do you know what I mean and it. I was like I and I laugh but it was really and I could tell that's the first time that somebody has ever done like I do think that guy was running game and I do think that he's done that a lot of times. I think that the timing of when he did it was not respectful to the other person I think it was very manipulative and again it's like Oh. He's such he's such a cat. She's got to let you down gently tiny. Everybody's in love with him right ring common sweetheart right here before that I'm very this yeah. It was very anyway that is creepy behavior but it was creepy. I think it was a very like it was creepy behavior and it felt like if felt Yucky it felt like and it felt like I didn't you know if you can do that immediately. After why wouldn't you just say that at the beginning. Why don't you just say why? Wouldn't you just want you. You have the choice that's right. He wanted to control her zeal yeah well. Let's bring this conversation around. What about you I want to be let's bring you know down lower or mid Western cornfed creep? Tell me uh-huh well. He wasn't a midwestern cornfed creepy was a football player at Steve. Notre Dame where I attended college Regis Philbin. I know this I think he went to Notre Dame. The joy never never shuts up about it. Actually I had a couple friends who lived in the dorm where he had lived hall and one day we were like freshmen and it was like Saturday morning was a football Saturday and there was a knock at the door and they were all hung over the open on the door and fucking regis philbin standing just like came into his his old your yeah which is pretty funny but it wasn't Regis Philbin. No there is a guy who was on the football team was in one of my freshman year classes and I was like very very innocent going into. College I didn't date in high school. I didn't party or do drugs. I just got good grades and like went home and filled out college applications pretty much all he did. What an asshole a real I was I was a Sassy nightmare for my mom but other than that I didn't do anything bad in highschool and that's why we get along you sassy nightmares but I was like kind of you know innocent and it was one of those things where I thought he was? He was really attractive and we are in the same class and he's like well. Come over and we can come over to my dorm. German will study together and I honestly thought you love studying at the time I did. I got you I I honestly thought that a we were going to study but I also thought that be. We were flirting and it was like going to be like a study session that like where we did study but perhaps moved the flirtation flirtation forward slightly but I wasn't like planning on hooking up with them or you thought it looked like you thought it was going to be Dawson's Creek T._v.. Study appropriate everyone's closer on but it's a lot of Chinese are going to tie back on but I went in over there and he just immediately wanted to like hook up and it was like just like very like tackle me Hook I sort of expected the tackle because of the whole football yes act- yeah it was just sort of it was sorta like in in his defense you when I was like what are you doing and I like pushed him away. He was just like Oh. I thought that's what this was and it was like no but it creeped me out so much a I was like disappointed in myself. It was just like it was like a ten minute encounter where I was like okay. I'll make you a little bit and then like no. We're not going to <HES> I. I remember thinking like how did how did I not know. Also I felt for this notion like I think a lot of times in the past winless creeps of taken me for a ride it's been because I've been convinced that I was special and to creep. Nobody is special. Nobody you're not you're not I mean nobody. None of those actresses were special to Harvey Weinstein. Though none of those girls were special to Jeffrey EPSCO he couldn't pick them out of a lineup right and none of those women who worked as domestic workers in Steve Wynn Las Vegas Casino where special to Steve Steve Wynn and this it's not in any way on the same level but I think that that's what creeps depend on. They like make a woman feel like she's special and then immediately take that specialness away like they won't just listen to US really like when we say no. Oh yeah was Yale or Harvard. I'm so right interview right now. Who was the school that we're the guys on tape going? No means yes no means yes means Anal Eh. It's not even something they came up with something. Frat boys have been yelling. I'm saying but I thought we were past that. I was really disappointed that she still happens yet. That creeping is is something that men who are just very bad at sex fall back on I think I think it's timeless. What's the solution? I think the solution is that there are there are a lot of men who listen to this podcast. There are a lot of men who care there are a lot of men out there who really don't want to hurt people. There are men who do who get off on but most men do not want to hurt people and I think that it's really important for us to speak up and this is just kind of a big moment of women being like we don't like that yeah there are a lot of men were like well. Thank you for letting me know. I did not know that you don't like that but now I do know so I won't do it anymore. It's all oh I think one of the things you know a lot of time at least in my personal history was this fear of seeming crazy overreacting and I I would love to all give each other permission overreact. Yeah you know even even 'cause you know what if a if confused maybe awkward creep who doesn't know it's yelled at one time at a bar. He don't take rank. Maybe the yelling was too much. I'm doing air quotes but like if we can just be okay hey with doing that and say no. Thank you right or I mean like literally like planting your feet and stopping on the street or stabbing again. I say that you know that is again. Obviously all depends on how safe you feel whether you have an ally in that moment. I think it's practice makes perfect like she had a meeting yesterday. With Very Alpha Dude I call them checks. I know like a buyer and he was great and then he started coming at me and I propose something regarding the film and he systems like why take offense to that and I've been in this business so many years and I just went well. I take offense to that. You're in my house that I paid for cash ten point five million dollars. I got two grammy. I got hardware. What do you got? I mean this but you know what I was like. Yes uh-huh yes and now it's next to your grand tetons bronze. It just has I don't. I just want him to voice next time. He's GonNa step up to me by the way I didn't. I wasn't this way when I was twenty two right at fifty fifty eight with all the climbing and all the bullshit. I finally feel like I'm going to step up to these guys. You know I had a run in with Leslie Moon vast you know about this. No you're going to go okay so first of all <hes> you know I can't stand him. He's a pig and he's always been a pig all right so <hes> I also read the the op-ed by Linda Ludwig Thomas in about how he basically single handedly said you're going to go from being the number one you know show runner female show runner and you know women driven shows just aren't as funny well. I was kind of a product that like suddenly Susan wasn't a great show but at least I got a ride like the tail end of the women driven shows right grace under fire or Murphy Brown or whatever so then if you notice all of a sudden every show was like Jim Belushi whose schlumpy but he's got the hot chick from melrose places the wife and and they were all those like dad in the world is against me but my hot wife is here but you know so anyway like hearing her right that like it went away overnight is something I think we need to remember as a lot of the stuff like if you gonNA play down even Louis C. k. the the the thing that bothers me about these incidences they are dream crushing. You know it's not in the romantic for the moment like when I read that those two women left comedy forever ever after the Louis thing they do want to be a writer. They didn't want to be a standup. They didn't want to be they were like I don't want to be anywhere near Addison. Tires no snakes for me here. That's why Louis it's like you know yes. I've had nice encounters with him and we've had nice conversations but you crushed their dream was that's what it means that they be preying on people's ambitions yes and and then in that process taking them away and these women really did. They left the business okay so let's okay so I was ever since might trump photo scandal. I've been like persona non grata and all this other stuff so I've been reaching out all kinds of ways. I mean I'll d._M.. The of show runner and say for God's sake give me five lines on something people think Yemen is this shameless and so I reached out to a female former executive and I said would you mind just having lunch with me and can I just kind of pick your brain for an hour is that okay and she was really sweet. She's like yeah of course I think we're kind of happen with you. Kinda gross and I haven't worked basically two years and she's like okay enough already so nice so we went to the Polo Lounge which I know is not good because I guess the Sultanate Brunei son is still. It's something that is well. We couldn't go there and now we can again but now I think we can't get anyways so I'm GonNa let me check over the Gay Star Chamber. Let me go to the meeting but anyway next time Panera bread the health product good options so anyway I go I go and I want to be early and be extra professional and jump higher and work harder and you guys know that all right so I get there and I walk into the polunge and I see those six booths and the only one this occupied by less invest who I've known for a long time and my first thought was well well. Well Bet it's been a long time since you were the first one at a lunch meeting I say that and so I was such a bitch I go leslie like that really friendly looks up from his phone and he goes high so I turned to the maitre d' and I go excuse me. I'd like a different booth. I don't like to sit in your rapist. It was heaven so I went. I went and sat at different tooth. I didn't tell my lunch date because I didn't WanNa bring her into like mice you know but when we were leaving it was so funny because the to myself and this other woman walked out in the maitre d' was so sweet. He's like Miss. Griffin thank you I apologize. I'll never happen again and I go well. Thank you the lunch date which is like what happened and I was like oh they brought a straw ecologically but it was kind of delicious because I just thought what have you lose Roy. Who else is GONNA say Julie? Ah I might as well yeah. I think they have to learn. Moment is something that I like having my head a lot. where I I remember thinking you've got a lot of nerves showing up at the Polo Lounge? Yeah you were just cannot even wearing lassen goes to go to you go to a costume shop. At least none of that should is acceptable and it's like an with him because I didn't know him personally but then this is where the complication comes in it's like Rachel Bloom was on the air for four years. Gina Rodriguez was one of the first females like female minorities to like get a show in a fucking long ass time what a Golden Globe for exactly and it's like they like he like his network because he had all that power like they did bring up some young women <hes> and that's real like that really and like I shot a pilot with C._B._S.. And like and what are you fucking do when you're in business and I think this is true for many businesses that are male dominated where it's like. Well fuck there. Were how many networks are there. Do you know how many are run by people who are. How many judges are they? Do you get a female like you're investing you can buy into into a portfolio that has no like firearms in it. It's like can I buy into a part of the industry that has no rapists right and I I would like less rape e- executives. I know it's a big ask us greatly. That's all I ask yeah. If there's a way to just kind of scalpels out right the creepy nece route would be great but you're right. It's really hard to totally extract yourself from an industry that seems sort of built around the pursuit of sex will right because isn't it also like because I also feel this way some times again like not putting stock into my physical appearance of being in an industry where you still have to look good right so then try to toe that line by the way whether your job depends on it or not right. It's ridiculous but that feeling of you know where you're like okay. I I WANNA look going doc in but not to queue you know what I mean because I know what to lead someone to believe that I am trying to utilize my body right like I'm going for the head writer who sometimes does a cameo look like ready enough for a cameo cameo but not to be the lead actress because that's just it's it's fraught goal is to get to a place where I can just garbage bags everywhere and I'm not talking about missy Elliott garbage bags. I'm talking about right. That's right. Draw your clean uh-huh uh-huh. Thank you <hes> speaking of garbage. Let's talk about the President Really Quick Kathy because you did a movie about all of that went down. Can you talk about whether or not the president of the United States is a creep and we we know him so first of all I've known him off and on for twenty five years so the irony of him you know what happened to me is historic in nature and that's one of the reasons I made the film and what I was going to say regarding confronting someone like less Moon Vez you know when you're me and you're just so persona non grata like basically blacklisted. You really don't have anything to lose and so. I thought I'm happy to confront him. There's nothing he can do to me and I probably can't do anything to him either but it was good too. I just hope next time he goes to a restaurant. He's afraid because I'll do it again and so for example when I couldn't sell a television special even though like I said I have to I mean he's a grammy and I one of only three women to win the grammy for best comedy album in the history of the grammys which is a problem that is a a big problem and also I try to set watermarks for younger women like I'm actually in the Guinness Book a row records that I've written and produced more televised stand up comedy specials than any comedian male or female trying to dispel the chicks money thing so <hes> when it came time to do the special special I hired a really good blue chip director funded it myself and no one would even look at us as a real nothing so then I thought when I was a little girl we would go see comedy in theaters Richard Pryor George Carlin and <hes> then I basically made a film out of it it got into south by South West and then after that augmented it with thirty minutes of actual doc footage so it really is a Docu comedy and now it's got this fathom release and I'm going to <hes> actually it's GonNa show at fifty one fest on on Thursday July Eighteenth which is Tina Brown is starting a inaugural festival that focuses on women creators women filmmakers you know women women women so I'm going to open that and then do keynote with her and then after that they're gonNA show out fest in a for the Ford Theater in Los Angeles got the gay is in the Lady <hes> traverse city the Michael Moore like Political Film Festival on August first and then we'll see I mean hopefully we'll get a nice distribution deal and the story will be told because it is historic nature her and it was just so terrifying to any buyer I mean I had more meetings right after the photo a year after the photo and I'd have middle level meetings were usually women would be like I love this. It can be a movie. It can be an unscripted series series. It's an interesting topic. It's Presi timely and then they would kick it up to the as I say lovingly the old white dinosaur check signer and over and over and over it was I don't even want to watch a thirty second sizzle like I just the word is like I actually have an agency say Kathy Griffin is a life's too short situation and I said you know <hes> Jay. I said Jay I made about seventy five million dollars over my career. I have kept it all but I may have made it generated. Maybe a billion I mean considering. I've worked for every single network clean clean stuff. I've done naughty stuff. I've done basic cable. I've done commercials football you know Super Bowl commercials and to have that all gone overnight over complete bullshit that the president full-on made up and it's never happened in the history of this nation the president would use the full power of the evil and the Department of Justice to just open a federal investigation against me and there was a call to see if I was like really crazier really really you know Isis Avenue joke because it's take me long time to get there asking me <hes> yell at me for being an Isis. You're an isis in Europe monster. Oh I worked at the gift shop for a week. It should be a long time to even laugh and so you know to this day it's with me and I'm confronted to this day and Blah la La <hes> so I just thought you know my new messages to women in particular. Save your money like I know this is hockey and old but like it's show business. Save your money for a rainy day. 'cause I got him on soon so I ended up making a film and it's not dependent on any dude. No Dude had to say yes but I I don't know what's going to happen. I don't know something's film. It's a refill my province cursing cursing okay kids to the movie. You're not supporting any creeps at any point in it's true free. That's creepy and I also learned to change my whole new business model because I had an agent I had been working with promoters and then they got scared of me so I learned how to <hes> four while shows and I would just send it two hundred fifty thousand dollar check to Radio City Music Hall and pay the Rent Myself and I learned how higher the ushers in the concession people and really put on the shows and I really enjoyed learning that so I also would say to a lot of women let yourself be open you might you might end up liking learning the business part of it then either due to do or someone told you was to above your head and I've had so many calls for guys just literally saying who do you think you are yeah and I just go. I'm Kathy Griffin who are you. That's all I got so and I started. This is so bad but I started my first mailing list at fifty-seven like Cologne. I should have done that a while ago. I started my first text list. Wait a minute text three one two five eight four three seven eight seven Congo. Yes because I'm from Chicago I haven't three to number contact. I will and then mm-hmm and what ended up selling out the rest of the tour because I think I really did kind of scare like live nation and those boys is I just honestly sold off the tour with Texas in the mailing list because then I could really geo target and I hired a marketing firm in D._C.. Because in New York and L._A.. They just didn't know. What to do with me? It was a you know like I said I was on the no fly list and then when I was finally able to list for two months shy I was investigated by the Secret Service and the U._S. Attorney's office so the US Attorney's Office of the photograph photograph that okay that is a short story real. It's never never have one of the reasons obviously is I wanted to make the film to go. This is not going to happen again on my watch and I actually walk the audience through the actual under oath interrogation because a lot the people also think like I got a phone call. Oh no no it was right hand up under oath interrogation and the first question when I finished the interrogation was I turned to the fence and I go once account Mika Miko. Am I allowed to speak about this publicly. Yes I said I was like yes then the ax so you know I'm just I've really turned into a do it yourself or by habit and it's not easy. It's way harder and I don't know what my future holds but I like it like you know I like feeling like hey this movie if he has a chance yeah as it sounds like you went beyond turning lemons into lemonade turn them into like a fermented lemon moonshine that is very potent and good for you. Maybe Ron's Cup because also in my merchandise kitchen dies store. I also sell keychains. That's a trump and I make tens of dollars. A year. Just released a new category for non swearing bundle and it's a First Amendment tee-shirt another t-shirt that says legend supporting legends and then some cardboard coasters that say Tippett in honor of my beloved mother who loves her boxed wine so I'm trying to tip toe into the non vulgar world yeah very challenge very I like the C word. I like all the bad words we can. I believe in you I think you can you can do it on Kathy. Griffin's new movie Kathy Griffin Helluva story is in theaters July thirty first and we have to take a break but when we come back the hills we'll die on in this. Week's episode of hysteria is brought to you by parachute. Many of us are very conscious about what we eat and what we put in our bodies but what about we put on our bodies. Oh interesting question parachute is dedicated to creating homosexuals angels that aren't just cozy and comfortable but completely safe for you to dry off with and curl up in that's why they only make their products from premium natural materials and never use harsh chemicals or synthetic softeners so I have to say I'm a bit of a parachute convert. I used to just sleep fun whatever sheets I had taken from. When I lived in Chicago like seven years ago? When I moved out here I got a bunch of new sheets and I can't imagine sleeping on anything that is less high quality now? I'm a real jerk. Talk about it but I really love my parachute sheets. They sent me some <hes> pink linen sheets that I adore and they keep you really cool. During the summer visit parachute home dot com slash hysteria for free shipping and returns on parachutes premium quality very comfortable home essentials Dell's that's parachute home dot com slash hysteria hysteria is brought to you by mirror. 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Kathy Griffin is still with US same with Naomi and Karen and we are at the part of the show where we take adamant stances on things that do not matter. It's the Hillsdale die on. Let's get started with listener hill hysteria. My name is Caitlin and the hill I will die on is that peeing in the showers gross us. I have never thought to do it or never wanted to do it and contrary to popular belief. I don't think that makes me a liar. You know people say like there are two types of people in this world people who in the shower and liars well. That's just not true. I promise you not pete in the shower late as an adult maybe as a child but not knowingly as an adult and I think that's totally fine and I'm willing to die on this hill in my non piece mailing shower uh-huh Q. I think it was very thorough really covered all ages and phases of her life. I believe her. I have a funny story about peeing in the shower. I was in a writer's room <hes> recently that ended but at one early day in the writer's room I'm sitting there. It's like about half women half men very awesome like good culture writer's room but I'm sitting there in we're we're brainstorming breaking story and this one is show like the head writers comes in and he goes Ryan points at me you ever Pete in the shower and I was like never in my life and it's just you and there's another one of the other female writers who hadn't ever because apparently taken an informal poll in the other room that was breaking stories. I'll how did it go. Majority minority was to people me and this other woman who hadn't compete in the shower but literally everybody else including the three other female writers. I have peed in the shower. It's all about the angle I'm not paying damn feet. I'm Nike to come out and I can't even pee in the Ocean C.. Clamps Lampson meare pool. How do you feel about a wish? I'm not a monster. It's already going down the drain in the shower pool as an enclosed don't care about glory here this girl on the hill first of all I love the way every listener hill sense so beleaguered yeah. There's just a tone of just like they're like hey hysteria. It's like they're rubbing their yeah. Yeah exactly I respect your level detail yeah. She'll give a lot of info no stone unturned okay so I'm GonNa. I'm GONNA give the hill that I will die on this week. Who here watch the women's World Cup? I I watched it. I I couldn't watch the final all the way through to get on a plane but I it's fine. We'll go with highly yes but it was so fun to watch women American women a group of like women. That included included a lot of L._G._B._T.. Women like it was so cool and inspiring to watch them just like kick ass and be awesome and I just want everybody to know that the hill that I will die on this week is that if you like the women's World Cup they're still playing soccer. There's a national women's soccer league and they play in a bunch of DIFFERENT CITIES CHICAGO HOUSTON ORLANDO SEATTLE Utah Washington. There's a lot of different cities that have national women's soccer league teams right now. The Seattle reign are in first place. They need you to fill those seats like maybe that'll help with the equal pay. I thought it was so cool that instead of chanting U._S._A.. They were chanting equal. Pay The same cadences you ran who's that <hes> male athlete the came out like it was like Lebron or somebody really big who said they should be paid equal. I don't know but a senator Joe Manchin who we who normally on the fence about Mr Bill saying that the federal government should not fund the World Cup in Twenty Twenty six minutes in the Americas in less men and women's soccer get paid equally introduced Joe Manchin Unlikely Mansion have a wife or a daughter who's the roster person but if you WANNA see more women's soccer and W. L. S. soccer dot com and you can get all the standings and win the Games are and stuff and honestly everybody should go see them play because they're awesome and they did not pay me or put me up to this in any way shape or form. I just think people should continue to go see women's saw Hashtag not an ad Hashtag not illegal and that is the hill that I will die on this week. Who wants to go next Karen? You WanNa we go next. You're looking at me. I don't like when the people play their music publicly on the beach or really anywhere else in the artists like if you're there with drake and then he plays Oh yes fucking hanging out wildlife apparently with your Ivy League. I guess it's not boxes on their phone without headphones little speaker or a big speaker. I was it a New York City beach recently aw I could not hear. I don't know I could not do the talking ocean on the kids. The ocean was drowned out by the different iterations of like techno music and essentially the Span Dan Techno music and I was like I'm not this much fun. I didn't come here to listen to your music came here to listen to some seagulls. Why are there pigeon right? You would never cut it. Lindsay Lohan Speech House for one second all about the boom boom boom yeah not so much the away the kids call it the boom boom boom yeah. I don't like the boom boom boom when I'm running. I don't like the boom boom or Lybia Com- commercial which is that an APP that Com- commercial use eating yeah so what is it. It's this an APP that you play when you can't that sleep and it's like Matthew mcconaughey bedtime story. Oh no you talk back. 'cause I'm not down with the wives handbags. I'm sorry okay you have to go to the beach and listen to an APP that plays waves that's right. That's what I need to do or need to to go to a beach with less people the out I was like I was very I was like I don't I find it very rude that people would assume that I like what they like actually imposition. You're assuming that I think what you think is excellent is what I I need in my life not having any regard sandcastle in the way of their music guy one. I'll die in that. He'll with you okay. Naomi found my hill okay so as you point out at the top of this programming I went to Europe with my mom. We went with my mom her husband my fiance we went to Amsterdam and something I sought it made me so mad. We walked around the Red Light District and there were multiple gentlemen in trying to handle with sex workers like she had the door open. They were kind of call and the hill I will die I on don't use show up to a gut tim sex worker with a coupon count no compromise her whole life at a spirit for God's sake pay pay our worst. She's worse right. She's in a window of a strip mall. I could not even take these men trying to be like what how many euros maybe and again. I was just hearing snippets as we were walking that really where you want to save money. Thank you know what I mean like. Dave on your values women visibly them like a scrunchy face seriously. This is so funny because a lot of the women really very bored. You know what I mean like having their nails. My favorite was the girls were like texting. Who in the window be like? Do you want something. I have a higher paying client. I'm texting right now. Then some of them you know where the talking to the guys is you know and they're like they've opened the door like a crack and Kinda talk in them a little bit and I'm just hearing bits and pieces like lily three times the space of kind of one block where it was like but I only have forty I say well you know what you need to go home and read. It got to him buck. That's that's right okay. You're asking this person so provide you with pleasure. This is her living especially in a place like Amsterdam where it's legal like that for living in the full thing you know what I mean. Not a hug you. The hip not come through up in here trying to hang out with a sex ex-workers trash. That's that's my hill. That is how much it costs. Exactly that has that is how much it costs good hill. That's a good deal forty bucks for God's sake good deal. I spend more on like on a piece of fish. It wasn't tasting. I was like the Indian me appreciates a good bargain and the haggle. The woman in me is like no window with the lingerie forty dollars you pay her. Yes the place to save your money. No no no not at all okay all done that he'll with you okay. Kathy Dr Catherine her shallow. <hes> I have a new paranoid theory which is that when Al Gore said the planet had you two hundred years or whatever and then every time I read a new article in scientific American American it gets it gets lower so I think the planet has two months tops the and after month one we turn into the walking dead and then it's just the apocalypse so I'm saying if you have even a hint the apocalypse is coming then. Just let's go eat as many donuts as you want. I don't WanNa hear that they're deep fried. I don't WanNa hear from Gwyneth. Paltrow goop philosophy. I say go to a donut shop but make sure that they're hot donuts because there is a difference. I'm Kinda service name Q ETA crispy cream make sure the light is on if it's apocalypse just burst in and say turn the light honesty popular but I just one of those where if you know something bad is happening than just go and indulge and <hes> donuts are food group. I think they're they're <hes> have a bad rap. They don't have any nutritional value but guess what sometimes I don't need it especially when the apocalypse Oh yeah okay sometimes joy is nutrition. Thank you thank you and there are days like today is new cycle where I think it just might be the apocalypse. I'M NOT SURE IF WE'RE GONNA make it to midnight. I might go to donut the trump. After this yeah and I'm with you I down that hill. They die in that warm. Yes wants out of the Friar. Warm Doughnut is a real. It's it's a life changer. My Face Got Happy Zion that he'll with you donut today but if things get any worse so I'd card Santa Monica always hot okay not an ad not not stay in Santa Monica okay. That's all the time we have for today Karen and they owe me. Thank you for stopping by Kathy Griffin. Thanks so much for coming by is this movie in theaters slide thirty first and thanks Tula Semester Monico for calling in there will be more hysteria in this hysteria is a product of crooked media. Carolina Reston is our producer our editor. Sarah and Kyle are sound engineer. Thanks to our digital team not no Melconian and Elijah cone for production support each week.