19 Episode results for "East Tennessee State University"

Perfectionistic Concerns, Perfectionistic Strivings: There's an important difference

iProcrastinate Podcast

48:17 min | 4 years ago

Perfectionistic Concerns, Perfectionistic Strivings: There's an important difference

"Hello it's Friday march thirty first twenty seventeen and this is typical back with another. I. Procrastinate podcast. Today I have an interview about a research paper with a colleague from Sheffield University in the UK name is Dr Fuchsia sear. Wa. Future has been on the podcast before because I've known future for many years ever since she did her own doctoral work at Carleton University and since that time she's cut an illustrious career as an academic including being Canada Research Chair in Canada, and she's now moved on to Great Britain where she's at Sheffield University as I said. She's prolific with your research I've always been very impressed with her in fact, when she was a graduate student at Carlton and expressed an interest in doing research on procrastination I had no idea how perfect that would be but she She wanted to do a study on procrastination health and she set up this elaborate longitudinal study that was really important in the long run in terms of the research on procrastination health. But she did this she just it's such a fabulous job of at the time you know three time point Longitudinal Study of Students Health and procrastination, and from that, she developed a whole procrastination health model that's just excellent in fact. As, you may recall that probably talked about on the I procrastinate podcast it's been so infrequently that I can't remember but just last year Co edited a book together her as the first editor on procrastination health and wellbeing. So fantastic researcher really sharp intellectual, and today she did an interview with me about one of her most recent papers in its on perfectionism and I won't have to say too much by way of introduction because an interview itself, we really explain why it was important to do this research and what it means, but I'll tell you just by way of introduction, she contrast to flavors of perfectionism. One is perfectionist Dick strivings, and the other is perfectionist concerns and they're different and they are related to procrastination differently. It is a conversation between two researchers about research, but we really keep the focus on the content. If you're an answer if you're a researcher interested, we do give you enough background understand how it was done and and Wyatt such good research. But for the most part we stick to so what to the concepts mean and what does this mean to understanding both perfectionism and procrastination a great interview? I think you'll enjoy it. I, certainly did always do enjoy talking with it. So. If you're brand new to the podcast because I get emails constantly from around the world about people who've just discovered the podcast. Then by all means check Oh procrastination dot ca particularly. If you've never been there before, that's my research website and you can see the kind of research that we do the kind of scholarly publications. We've done the books that we published that sort of thing. And I think that the reason I think that's so important is that Knowledge is a funny thing. You know there's lots of people who claim to know things as just as we are in the I procrastinate podcast and. We try to ground our knowledge in the ongoing and imperfect work of science We do our best to justify what we say with the empirical evidence, and of course, even as I discuss with Fuchsia. In our conversation you know it's Research is always penultimate. There's the next to last study. At its best scientists self-correcting and it's an act of debate and a way of seeing. So I hope that this is different perspective on the kind of things that you may encounter in the name of self help and understanding ourselves. It's what a research psychologist thinks and does. And it's interesting that way. But it's like the parable of the blind men around the elephants each is holding a different part. You're going to get different perspectives on things and I respect that but I think it's important to understand that pissed them all. The knowledge the way of knowing from this perspective. That's enough with of introduction I'm glad you're back I'm glad I'm sitting down at the microphone to put up yet another I procrastinate podcast because I know it's infrequent but I'm not into creating a huge. Train of followers per se I even dislike the term. I'm doing my best to share the kind of things we're learning. That might interest you and there's tons of things I'd like to do is simply not enough time to make this my absolute focus. Well without any more for further ado, then I take you to my interview with Dr Fuchsia Sirois on perfectionism. Fuchsia. Tim Thanks for making time I know what being across the pond as they say, we're quite a few hours apart and it's glad we could find a time that worked for both of us today. It's my pleasure and invited me to to speak with you today I'm keen have you speak because of your most recent paper while you have so many recent papers but what the most recent that interested me at the moment is entitled a Meta Analytic and conceptual update on the associations between procrastination and multidimensional perfectionism, and for regular I procrastinate listeners will get to a minute to simplify that in terms of what it means particularly this idea of a multidimensional perfectionism. But if you can just hang in there for a minute as listener and know that perfectionism comes in a couple of different flavors in that matters. I wanted to ask future couple of things about the paper because she co-authored this paper with Danielle Molnar and Jameson Hirsch and I was interested because I've worked with you. Sean and off for years now, about Danielle who's both at Brock University and associated with the Research Institute on Addictions at the University of but. And then Jameson. WHO's in psychology at? East Tennessee state. So how did you get to know these people and and what did they bring to the table for this paper? That's a great question. Yeah So I've known Daniel for a while now I I'm I was actually an external. Examiner on her PhD thesis some years back and and her thesis was on perfectionism and health, and we hit it off from there and I think. We've spent a couple years. Now we've been working on various aspects of perfectionism. So I've been gotten too drawn more into the perfectionism research working with Danielle. Because perfectionism and health is something that's really a key focus for her whereas I I've been more Preston in health per se and some interest in perfectionism So that's that's kind of hooked up with Danielle on this. And getting involved with his paper sort of an outgrowth of Sirte bringing together I guess more her main research interest in perfectionism with my main research interest in procrastination and Jameson, and I ve actually been working as co authors in other related topics I guess since. Niner. So we each other at a conference in terms of the APA conference, and so he actually co authored quite a few papers together and he's had an interest in in procrastination and he's also had a bit of an interest, an perfectionism. He's a clinical psychologist clinical health psychologists at East Tennessee State University and so it sort of bringing together this papers sort of brings together a are various different perspectives and including sort of a clinical perspective, as well as someone who's more centered in the perfectionism research area, and that's I guess kind of the short story of how. How involved together on this paper? Well, it's very well written paper and very comprehensive, and I enjoyed it thoroughly it's in the European Journal personality for those who view researchers, our students who might WanNa read it. And I think it's a good combination three of you bring a lot to it and shouldn't pooh-poohed what you've done perfectionism. The second to last edited book on Perfectionism Wasn't it? Yes that's right. That's with Danielle Molnar. Lots of perfectionism. So so you've got this new paper and I was keen to read it I. Know You were keen to do the work and write it. Why was it so important to do this paper? I. Think it was. It was important on a couple of different levels the the main one for me was I guess sort of on a conceptual level and also logs conceptual side and there was also I think the side of what was being put forward to the public, the public perceptions of the relationship between procrastination and perfectionism. and. You know if you if you google. Procrastination and perfectionism would invariably comes up is blog posts. By a particular author suggesting that there's actually no. In between procrastination and perfectionism. And, these sorts of conclusions were based on paper that was written back in two thousand seven. that didn't focus on procrastination perfectionism per se. It looked at all the relationships of procrastination with a number of different traits and qualities. But one small portion of it did focus on how procrastination related to perfectionism and. The conclusion again was drawn that they're not related but if you actually start looking at what how that conclusion, what it was based upon, there was a number problems and other issues that that we felt needed to be sort of brought out and dress and addressed, and the biggest one was that perfectionism wasn't looked at as the multidimensional construct that we most researchers in the perfectionism field I'm know. It to be in research that way. So if you've got two different perfectionism dimensions, one that's generally, not very healthy considered more maladaptive. We call the city perfectionist ICK concerns and you've got one that can be potentially more beneficial for getting getting things done and for achieving your goals and then call it perfectionist striving. So it's almost striving to reach these high standards and ideals. And these two different perfectionism dimensions tend to diverge in terms of how they relate to a lot of different outcomes specially outcomes related to health and wellbeing. But if you've got, you throw the measures of the to those together. They're gonNA cancel each other out when you start looking at them and association with things such as procrastination, which has a lot to do with working towards goals getting things done. So that was one of the key things we thought that this. The answer to is procrastination related to perfectionism. How it had been answered wasn't in a way that really allowed that question to be tested in a really rigorous or scientific way, and so this paper was sort of our attempt to come out it and say, well, let's actually put this to a little bit more of a rigorous test. I WanNa make a comment before I jumped back in on the perfectionist concerns and profession perfectionists strivings, and that is that two thousand and seven paper. As you know it, it left a strong impression with people that have perfectionism was not related to or even thought about as causal to procrastination yet every clinician thought that was a little bit crazy and zoo. Certainly was their problems in the conceptualization and measurement. The paper had other problems as well in the sense that it ended with this procrastination equation and it's interesting. I, wanted to contact you earlier this week because I've been reading a paper called modeling, the interplay between affect and deliberation and a couple of years old now is published in Two Thousand Fifteen in the journal called decision by George Lowenstein Ted on you and deep but. and so the you'll recognize the first two authors for sure and probably the third one is well. And you know they come from behavioral economics and economic background so not Like the framework that was proposed for this co procrastination equation. But of course, the equation was only the deliberative side of things and as you and I have argued, there's a whole emotional component. Procrastination, and this is a really beautiful paper because what it does is it offers up a dual process model and there are many. Knowledge that but basically, it really feels out the rest of the equation that it's not just about the deliberative process and the temporal discounting, but it's also the whole notion of how you're reacting emotionally. So yeah, thank you and I'll probably come back and maybe we can bring Joel Anderson on this because. I really liked to discuss at length. You know why would you only consider the deliberative process as economist it for way too long, and this is why this is such an interesting paper it it. It's very misleading and understanding you and behavior. So. That two thousand and seven review although it was an interesting analysis. ended up being detrimental to peoples understanding of procrastination quite frankly. Yeah. Yeah. That's true. Yeah. Today I think we're going to clarify one of those problems and so let me go back to this contrast. You made between perfectionist concerns and professional strivings reminds me of. Our friend and colleague Gordon. Flat. Universities done so much work on perfection as well, and he had published a paper a few but one in particular I'm thinking about about perfectionism and procrastination, and in fact, for listeners of the podcast. Few years ago. Now, core did to podcast with me on perfectionism and procrastination, but the language that he uses a little bit different I wanna get your comment on this Fuchsia that. He used a different scale, but it still was multidimensional in nature in the sense that and I'm going to contrast just two flavors or kinds of perfectionism. He had the self oriented perfectionist, and then he had this socially prescribed perfectionist and in some ways, they see the mapping on very well to the professional perfectionist strivings. Infectious concerns and so just for listeners from. The self oriented perfectionist is doing something well for him or herself they. It's your you feel driven just do it as well as you can. And contrast. So she prescribed perfectionist is always got this internal dialogue going on in as internalized the expectations typically unrealistic expectations of others, and that is the notion of perfectionist concerns whereas in the first case, self oriented seems to echo this notion of strivings that'd be a fair. Mapping onto those two. Definitely. Yeah definitely. So I, I think you know in the perfectionism research there's I mean there's a number of different scales and and certainly the an and ways of sort of slicing and dicing the different modes of different flavors of perfectionism. But what researchers have largely agreed upon is that. Regardless of the scale that you use Dr these to sort of higher order dimensions, perfectionist concerns and perfectionist extravagance and yes. So the the self oriented perfectionism. Scale does map onto it is seen as reflective of these perfectionist strivings and socially prescribed perfectionism seen as reflective of perfectionist to concerns. But there are other measures you can tap into, but it's sort of a higher order dimension if you like sort of a way of. Trying to organize all the different scales ways of of. Terms for to these different types of perfectionism. We've they've sort of decided on these to hide or higher order. Dimensions Yeah. We'll deal with today but did thought it is necessary first of all to just mention that this isn't the first time that I procrastinate podcast we've had someone that's talked about perfectionism especially a renowned research in the area, but just to talk about why there might be different terms used and how they do. Their related in an important way in the sense that as you critique to the very beginning the two thousand and seven paper took uni-dimensional approaches if progress perfectionism was one thing. But as you've argued here, these two zero two dimensions make multidimensional. At least two hired order dimensions that here you've we're going to say it one more time because such an important part of the whole review perfectionist concerns versus perfectionist strivings. So maybe before we get to understanding what you actually found. What makes for this Meta analysis, what is a meta-analysis? Excellent question. So I guess yeah. These way to explain a Meta analysis is. Basically. What you're doing is you're you're looking at the existing research you're taking. In this case, we're looking at correlations or associations. So we want to look at the associations between perfectionist to concerns and procrastination in between professional strivings and procrastination. and so we basically in a minute now since you go out, you try and find all the published research and unpublished research that's been done because you're what you're trying to get as an average. Level of association. So some studies may find that they're not associated. Some may find they are associated very strongly or weakly eighty and in a Meta analysis by gathering and sort of garnering all these different studies pulling them all together. It gives you an overview of probably a more definitive overview of to answer the question to degree to which two. Variables in this case procrastination and perfectionism are related and also how how strongly they're related as well and what direction the related in so it gives you gives you. An overview of the research at large and also kind of summarizes it nice and neatly to give you a sense of across so many different. Studies done with different people from all different types of backgrounds. We can say that procrastination is related to perfectionism to this degree, and so man analysis allows you to quantify those associations institute come up with a figure. Across all that research. So interesting for me that. You. Don't end up with the publication bias then because you're taking the stuff that's published but you're digging out that didn't get published either the stuff that's people's drawers still and I noticed for example. Our our friend Amro, you had one of his early studies in there and others. So how do you go getting all of these other studies? That's a good question. So, we had a couple of calls I. Think we put a call at the at the recent Procrastination Research Conference we're asking people there there's a perfectionism research network. Can we put out a call for papers there and we did get some some unpublished data from there as well and other people who publish data just Reminded us that they had these studies and plus we did have quite a few data set. So given that you know Daniels worked quite a bit in per. Perfectionism and and the two of us have been working together and I always put procrastination scales and a lot of what I do too. We had a lot of our own data sets to and so that's I mean you're always getting an estimate I mean, you're never going to gather all of the studies that are out there in the world. May this be the call it the file drawer problem because people either you are not able to reach those researchers or they refused to let you have the data so all you can really do is trust. You, you are reaching as many as people as you can. In that, you know they have the will enough to to WANNA share that data with you to to help to contribute to this knowledge base to give it an understanding of the questioned. The great thing is in the end, you did collect a tremendous amount of data. You had a lot of studies but. What was just the sheer number of participants across all the studies? Ten thousand. We're talking about. A relation between a measures of perfectionism measures of procrastination across ten thousand participants. So at this point, we think we're dealing with pretty generalized sample think because we have students in there and community samples, and perhaps you can remind as later about the differences that might emerge. So that's the basic approach you've taken all the existing research in your reexamining their relation between perfectionism as multidimensional construct and procrastination. What did you find? Well, kind of a little bit what we expected to find a divergent relationships that you see between these perfectionist concerns and protection strivings also found with procrastination. So we found that those. You know people who scored high on perfectionist to concern. So that's kind of I mean, we haven't really sort of define what perfectionist concerns is but it so much as it is a Tennessee to be really preoccupied with not. Meeting unrealistically high standards especially as you mentioned with. The socially prescribed perfectionism you might think to the standards are set by other people in auto rumination about not being able to reach those standards We found that to mention it perfectionism was positively correlated with trade a measure of trade across nation and correlation was into the magnitude of boat point two three. And the average correlation across. About ten thousand people on the other hand professions strivings, which is much like how you describe SOC. Self oriented perfectionism it was negatively associated with procrastination, and so this is people who are setting their own goal. They may still have very high standards since a perfectionist, right? But it's something that they're set their setting for themselves and they seem to be more driven internally to reach those goals they tend. They were that people at scored high on that particular dimension with had tend to score lower on trade procrastination measures. So, from a clinical perspective than people who are ruminating about their goals and their ability to achieve those goals of they're the ones that a clinician or therapist account might be most concerned about in terms procrastination. Yeah. Definitely. And one of the ways that we framed it, we tried to sort of bring a. Self Regulation Framework. You know this idea of. How you. Sort of set your goal, and then what you do just go about trying to reach that goal everything between monitoring's getting closer to that goal and also involves your expectations for reaching that goal. And this is one of the things where we felt that. People, who are you know chronic procrastinators and people who score high on this perfectionist concerns had some commonalities. Their expectations for reaching their goals. Were probably not that high, and so they might have these great goals that they want to achieve, and it might be the same sort of goals that someone who scores high perfection striving size but. When you go to a SAS well, what's before you make any effort towards reaching that goals you know what's the? What's the possibility I'm going to reach the score do I expect that I'm actually going to be successful? and. So one of the things that we sort of suggested was that if you're in your chronic prostate or your high in these perfectionist concerns. You're more likely to think that you're not actually going to be able to meet make that that goal or meet those standards, and so you're you're expectancy for a positive outcome is going to be quite low and in which case you you Kinda just feel like giving up or stepping back from the goal abandoning it or just taking a pause and and putting it off. whereas. Does individuals who are scoring high on professions. strivings tend to feel more confident about their ability to actually meet those high standards that they set for themselves, and that's what that's what sets them apart. They have this stronger feeling of control and of efficacy that they can actually do as even though people might say, well, that's a really high standard goal you've set for yourself they it's their confidence that carries them through. So really just going back to what you said earlier about. Bringing the emotional side. It's that sort of negative feelings about one's ability to be able to actually follow through and actually complete the goal or be successful that tends to parallel is maybe an pair both people who are chronic procrastinators and those who are are. High on this protectionist concerns of us one of the reasons I think the papers so good and so important because not only did you address an issue in the existing literature about the relation between procrastination perfectionism by treating it as a multidimensional construct, which is just the correct way but more importantly embedded into theoretical framework. Now, like it's one thing to report correlations, there's another to say so how do we make sense of this and by putting it into the self regulation framework and then that a little bit? and. Then talking about emotion regulation I think you opened the door for lots of other research because, for example, those who are perf- have perfectionist strivings if that's what's defining them in terms of their perfectionism, then they might be more in terms of motions broadening and building like their success just more success whereas the rumination that's attributed or associated with perfectionists to concerns is that kind of downward spiral and so this is just two different trajectories emotionally, and of course when you're having that downward spiral while it only. Precipitates further procrastination or or procrastination to begin with because you want to escape those negative emotions that the the task now is associated with all these negative thoughts of self and insecurities, and so to get away from that, what you do some avoidance. So it really helps understand that connection theoretically, and of course, clinically then as I mentioned, then you'd probably want to deal with a person in a very different way. If you understood that they have this internal dialogue, they're having this rumination and then you can work more on issues of the self and agency and that sort of thing. Yeah Were there any differences between community samples and the student samples? So you actually saw stronger. So She Asians. Between perfectionist concerns and procrastination in the commute sample versus students sample. And so that that was a bit surprising. In some ways we always think about it being students and we think about the student perfectionist whose poos procrastinating. And just being in that academic environment with all those demands timelines imposed upon you that some sort of a ripe environment to to really promote both procrastination and perfectionism in an unhealthy way. But in fact, it was within the community samples that we saw the stronger association so that that was a little bit surprising not quite what we had expected. Any other variables of interest in terms of moderating of the relations we did find differences across the scales that were used. So as I mentioned, there's a number of different measures for assessing perfectionist concerns. Infection strivings three main ones we looked at were the Hewitt and flat multidimensional, Perfectionism Scale, the the frost multidimensional perfectionism scale, and the slaney and colleagues almost perfect scale revised. And one of the things that we've found is that. How you measure perfectionism does make a difference and depending on the on the measure you're using you may under overestimate the association between procrastination and perfectionism, and in particular we found that if you use the almost perfect scale. You found significantly stronger. Associations between. Perfectionism and procrastination. Dan If you used some of the other scales and sort of the differences in these associations were were quite striking. So I think from from a methodological point of view it does suggest that researchers need to be mindful I think of the scale that they're using an when you're looking at certain associations you may find slightly different results. Than When you choose one scale over another again, that's more of a methodological issue, right? It'd be interesting the people who are doing research. There are students and faculty who do you listen to these podcasts that are active researchers but for the rest of us who are just interested in the findings did matter what scale used you still found that relation? Yes they found it no matter what he was significant. No matter what. But the saw. The strength of the relationship change depending on the scale. But even then, and you know the other thing that we did I think that was Something that makes us a a very rigorous test of the association is that you know there's there's a number of different things we've looked at. So because we included a lot of our own data it could be argued that well, that's your own data and maybe it's biased and you know there's it's all sort of hubbub in in psychology about data coming from certain labs not being replicated in other labs and that type of thing So one of the things we did is we re ran all the announces actually taking out our own personal data and the results were still there, and in some cases they were slightly stronger. That's above. and and some other things too because some of the way the ways that we measure procrastination perfectionism some people questioned some of the scales are these actually real measures of perfectionists concerns were striving. So we ran the analysis taking those supposedly questionable measures of perfectionism, and again we got the same results. So we tried a number of different things just to sort of really be critical in how we approach the question to see well is maybe it's because of you know. We're using these measures that are not widely accepted or maybe is because it's our own data or may maybe because there's items you know. These are questionnaire-based measures right that. Be that. Shit. That share some of the same sort of content between procrastination perfectionism. So if you have a sexism scale of talks about delay, then you're you're kind of going to. Overestimate the association with cross-nation items which also talk about today. So we went back and we took out any scales ahead any crash, any items that even referred to time or delay or procrastination. We ran the analysis again and we still found the same results. It was clear and a very good paper. Then that way because you know when you when you. Reading that paper, you feel confident in the results in particular even when you addressed the various other alternative explanations and limitations. But let's now for you for you and for me I mean that was a really important study really important met analysis in terms of setting the record straight about the relation between perfectionism and procrastination. It's more complex than saying there isn't one. There's one in each direction Yes. Mr. strivings is. Associated negatively like there's less procrastination associated with it whereas concerns there's more. Talk a little bit about. The pathway particularly with rumination elaborated on that in terms of your self regulation model but for listeners, they might be interested in knowing. So how is it? I end up being someone who can be described as having perfectionist strivings? perfectionist concerns where these come from an our locks. That's a really good question I. Think this is this is sort of the next. I would imagine big area to in research and sort of the developmental roots of that scene where how is it? Do you start trying you start developing a need to be very setting these really high standards for yourself but they're not your standards that might be standards imposed by somebody else. So you can imagine your your parents imposing standards on you and feeling do if you don't actually meet those standards you won't you know the the they'll withhold. Privileges or that you won't actually they won't love you. If you don't actually follow through in, meet these these high standards whether it's getting perfect grades or something like that. So I think you know developmentally In terms of the whole issue perfectionism going back some of it goes back to childhood and a lot of clinicians I think focus on that area in terms of the development, I think it just it can become sort of a vicious cycle. You start off setting high standards, but they may not be are working towards a goal that may not be something that you really WanNa do but you feel that you have to do it because you're trying to meet somebody else's high standards for because you're trying to meet some ideal. You know trying this person that you think you should be because society or others tell you should be this person and so it's a goal that may not be meaningful for you and as you start off attempting to work on it, you realize how difficult it is. You start losing confidence in it. you start feeling more negative about it in the these emotions around the goal is you were mentioning Again become very manageable. Parents said a lot of that up for us in terms of the literature on parenting style. If demanding too much control, not enough warmth authoritarian style of parenting we ended up seeing. Young. People not developing self regulatory skills and also. Having that in. Expectation, there's always demand for control. So. Yeah and I think we see that in even the little bit of literature that there between parenting style and procrastination in the sense. As. You say this is researched needs to be done but that may be the some of that pathway is through perfectionism. So yeah. Yeah. I. Think I think it's it's definitely through that but I think again bringing in that sort of emotion regulation spin though too. So So you may have that you said that the parental sort of. Pressure or the perceived parental pressure pressure whether it's there or not. is another issue altogether but. So now you've got these feelings that are unmanageable. And I think the other side of this too is per parental role in the development of healthy emotional regulation. So it's not just in the role of of setting, you know controlling what you do and not allowing you to like you said to to give you enough warf suit to find those things that are meaningful for you. But instead imposing goals on on children or having a child who feels like the goals are imposed, but you may not have good models for how to regulate those emotions. So if you're now in a position though to where you've got your feeling like, I've got these goals imposed on me are these. Things I'm supposed to do the standards posted meet I'm feeling really uncomfortable around this because what's at stake if I don't meet them right which is also an issue too but I I I don't know what to do with these feelings I don't I don't know how to manage them because perhaps parents haven't know provided good goals good good models there other on how to manage those emotions while then how do you learn to manage them? You can now you don't know how to manage them on internal level. So. Instead, you manage them sternly and one way to do that is just in disengage completely from the task. So this task is causing me a lot of stress. I'm worried about what's going to happen what they're going to think of me if I don't actually follow through and get that grade or do things the way I should. So I'm just GonNa stop doing it now I've got some relief. In the short and then Problem and yes, and that's why you know. Then the next step is often cognitive behavioral therapy or some form of counselling radiation. So you do learn other strategies to deal with these feelings and to help. Regulate these these these Unrealistic expectations and concerns. Well, that's great. I mean. That's our Nice summary of a very complex piece of work statistically meta-analysis is. An art form in itself right from the very beginning and getting the data and cleaning the data and making things commensurate, and then dealing with all the possible moderators and as you noted, dealing with the possible criticisms of You know is it is it an issue of just being your own data's a nice job of summarizing that in a very good job in the paper itself so you think backing up from it just a little bit. Missouri Takeaway Message for listeners of I procrastinate podcast in terms of perfectionism and procrastination. In the sense, we might be summarizing things that are being said, but just like the takeaway message from the paper I knew through spin this from the front of perfectionism side a little bit because I was speaking with someone about this recently and they were trying to get at so if you had to. Block people think they're perfectionists right and then so which kind of perfectionist I am am I am this unhealthy type or I'm you know if if we or if you're you know somebody's perfectionist. So the unhealthy perfection it high perfectionist concerns. Are they high perfectionist strivings which it's not necessarily healthy but it's not as damaging reaching your goals. One of the things as an offshoot from would be that if we understand this at a divergent relationship with procrastination, then I think if he gets a lot easier to spot those perfectionists. Who are not doing that? Well, you might be high on perfectionist concerns and really need some sort of intervention to help them enough for those who are procrastinating and not you know once in a while, but at a chronic level so that now they are chronic procrastinators whereas you know I can see that you're going to see people high imperfection of strivings are actually reaching their goals. So are less likely to be able to you know to be paralyzed by violence. Those negative emotions they have around to task that they're they're trying to complete. You might find burnout. Being a marker of professional strivings and procrastination perfectionist concerns because you can overdo it. Certainly, we would see that with a strong correlation with conscientiousness as well. Yeah. perfectionist strivings. It would seem like you know that's a good thing. Anything even conscientiousness taken to an extreme. You know what do we get? Then we get hoarding we get compulsive. You're so stink it's important for everyone to remember that. I'm going to add something moment but that we're not talking about one being virtue being vice. Extremes either of them can be a problem, but empirically was her what's the correlation between Perfectionists, strivings and perfectionist that concerns there. It's a revenue point between point two point three. So I it's there is some correlation there. This is one of the things we did is we actually took we know statistically choke out contribution of perfectionist strivings from perfectionist concerns, procrastination relationship. For statistically as well. Yes. Yes. We did that as well and we found that it got stronger when you took out that perfection strike is clearly the perfection strivings was having a buffering effect. There but I think the other way to think about it too and you're right. It's not it's not a question of simplistic dualistic vice versus virtue perspective. One way that we've tried to, and we're working on some other research on this right now to we're to look at the effect of states that differentiate professional concerns from factious strivings and one of the things that we found in the literature as well, and we know this in the paper. Is. It very consistently mushed like trade procrastination perfectionist it concerns is associated with high levels of negative affect and very low levels of positive affect. So the positive states don't come that easily. If, you've got your perfectionist concerns and well on the other hand perfectionist strivings is a little bit of a mixed bag. It's a little bit more complex. So if you're high a perfection strivings, your hiram positive affect as you were mentioning through the more of a broaden and build approach to goals and of more hopeful right about actually being able to attain the skulls bugged. Down it's also associated with moderate levels of negative affect as well. So you have both of these effective states together and I. think that's where that whole argument about it being virtuous comes into play because it's also cheap with stress and high levels of negative affect. But happens to also be associated with positive states to, and that's probably when they're they are meeting their goals. In the complexity, an our own lives is that it's not necessarily either or that's why I asked about the relation of statistically because it's a bit like the literature on approach versus avoidance goals it's not like I just have approach coles or just have avoidance goals I can have both And again. So there could be mixture in me of in some areas of my life. I might be very much defined by perfectionist strivings and other areas perfectionist that concerns and so it can be difficult to disentangle. So I like the idea that you said you gotta look for chronic conditions and I bet you even overlaps a lot with. That earlier research by our colleague and friend Clara Lay who talked about the ought versus the ideal self and relations procrastination. There's big literature and art and ideal of course. But that you're perfectionist, it concerns a going to map more onto the ought self. And that's related to all those negative emotions we're talking about. So. It. Paints very consistent picture and it's much clear. When you you know in terms of. So where does perfectionism? Play a rule and procrastination, and the answer is it does and it's not as simple as might be the case because I you have to understand a bit about perfectionism which have done a good job explained today. That's great again. Fuchsia. Thanks so much for making time. It's the end of the week for you over in Great Britain. I'm looking forward to visiting you not too distant future I'm sorry we're not gonNA see each other in Chicago I know that. It doesn't fit into your travel schedule this summer and and uh with the legislation that's been going down in the US it's it's impossible for my students tonight at travel there. So as much as underlying podcasts I said, I was looking forward to going to our next. Conference it's not possible for me anymore and it's upsetting and it's really a shame but it is. This year. Yeah. But. It's funny just before we started this podcast, I was editing some of our research posters that are going there. So we'll there will be. Some of our data at least I have three students who just finished. Studies actually there's four posters going there. Great Joe Ferraris graciously agreed to have those posters be. Displayed even though we're not going to be able to travel there but I hope you and I maybe you'll be hosting next conference who knows. To See US travel over to Sheffield and continue these discussions there. Yes it would be fantastic I'd be happy to have everybody over here for to discuss more on the procrastination research. But yeah, and thanks very much for against great great talking about the paper and having an opportunity to. Hopefully correct some of the misperceptions out there about the link between procrastination and perfectionism nature of science I mean if it has best scientists self-correcting and in every study has penultimate and so in many respects, we await the next person to pick at. An aspect of your own study or pick up. In another direction based on those things and and that's the great thing about this podcast and the blog and our research in general I look forward to reading your next paper you're prolific and it's just a great thing to see the contributions making. So thanks again for all your great research for your time. Today. Fuchsia. Thank you to. All right. We'll talk to you soon. Thanks. Bob. Being missing. All. Around as good a be the day. Things away. I don't. Win. Fire. In Big Out scenes after all these. Away. A. Phone. And Is taking the AD. Off.

researcher Dick strivings Danielle Molnar Great Britain Sheffield University Longitudinal Study of Students research psychologist Dr Fuchsia Sirois Jameson Hirsch Carleton University US UK Wa editor Dr Fuchsia graduate student Tim East Tennessee State Universit Canada APA
What about that other government report?

Marketplace Morning Report with David Brancaccio

07:52 min | 1 year ago

What about that other government report?

"This. Marketplace podcast is brought to you by four x dot com. Committed to empower and helping traders seize opportunities in the foreign exchange markets. Learn more at four x dot com for dot com. It's your world trade it for trading involves significant risk of loss. The report we've all been waiting for is finally out. No, no, no, not that one in New York. I'm Sabri Benesch or in for David Brancaccio. Well, lots of people were eagerly digesting a certain report from the department of Justice. They were a select few poring over the details of another long way to document, the US international trade Commission's independent assessment of how an updated NAFTA. Now known as the US MCA will affect the US economy. President Trump has touted US MCA as a big improvement over its predecessor. Anyway, the big takeaway here is that if implemented the new NAFTA would have a small positive impact on the us economy. Marketplace's Tracey Samuelson has more when the International Trade Commission, tallied up all the different ways the US as new rules and provisions will ripple out through different industries. If found the US economy will be point three five percent larger with the US MCI in place, then it would be if we just stuck with the old NAFTA point three five percent. I'm surprised that so large even though it's still a very small number. Irwin is a trade economist at Dartmouth College. This is an incremental change on a a an agreement that's already pretty pre-trade. But some of the biggest differences impact the auto industry, like increasing the share of cars and car parts that have to come from the three NAFTA countries. The report found those changes will have a mixed impact. In new monarch is a visiting scholar at the Cato Institute cars are going to become a little bit more expensive in the United States. I not as many people are going to buy them, although will be more employment in that sector. The report is one step in the US MCA's long journey through congress, but manic says its findings aren't likely to change many politicians mines those four or against the deal will likely stay that way. I'm Tracey Samuelson for marketplace. Walmart and Amazon are now accepting snap benefits what we usually refer to food stamps for online grocery delivery in New York this part of a department of agriculture pilot program. Marketplace's ben. Bradford reports this could help connect low income communities to healthy food, the USDA calculates as many as fifty four million Americans live in food deserts low income communities where people may struggle to get to supermarkets Charles Plotkin at the hunter college food policy center says online grocery delivery, could help healthy food access is show important. Here's a solution that doesn't have infrastructure costs. Amazon is accepting snap payments for online orders in New York City while WalMart is covering upstate New York. One concern Plotkin says is that people still must pay delivery fees out of pocket. Three five six eight dollars. That's significant to a family. That's, you know, watching their budget another challenge low income households may also have less access to internet. Jane Addams at the nonprofit bread for the world says retailers have a financial incentive to encourage the program. Success big grocery store chains like WalMart and Amazon excetera Frank. Snap recipients make up a huge portion of their revenues USDA plans to roll in more retailers coming months and as many as eight other states. I'm Ben Bradford for marketplace. Let's do the numbers. The Nikkei closed up a half a percent of Japan to Hang Seng in Hong Kong, close down half a percent. US markets are closed for Good Friday. Not everyone gets a chance to study the economy in school. Anyway, who doesn't need a brush up. Marketplace helps you continue your education in the way that we hope is smart sessile, and hopefully even a bit fun. Your donation is not only an investment in your learning. But also in helping us make more people smart about the economy. And that we think is good for everyone to learn how you can help. Visit marketplace dot ORG slash investors. Thank you. This. Marketplace podcast is brought to you by with Sabi. Hot cloud storage, thinking about moving your data storage to the cloud was obvious enterprise. Class cloud storage at one fifth the price of Amazon S three and up to six times faster with no hidden fees for egress or API requests was obvious low cost high speed fully secure storage blows away the competition, including Google and Microsoft disruption starts here. Do the math for yourself and start a free trial. I was Sabi dot com. In the two weeks after getting out of prison. Former inmates are forty times more likely to die of an opioid overdose than anyone else in the general population. This is in a study recently published in the American journal of public health so jails and prisons have found themselves on the front lines of addressing addiction, some not many, but some are considering treating inmates for addiction using medication. The season of our podcast, the uncertain hours all about drug epidemics, and how they end and its newest episode is all about addiction treatment. So with all that in mind Kelly Moore joins us. She's a professor at eastern Tennessee State university. Welcome good morning. Why is it that inmates are so much more likely to die of an opioid overdose? Than almost anyone else. What happens is when people get arrested in incarcerated, you know, if they used opioids before they were arrested and got involved in the Justice system, they have to go through a period of withdrawal. And then they're tol. Lawrence to opioids decreases a when they get released and they go to use the same type or amount of opioids. They might have used prior to incarceration. They don't have the same tolerance in. That is largely what increases there. Overdose risk. How could jails intercept that outcome? Exactly. But biggest thing is by providing a medication assisted treatment during incarceration for people who come in with an opioid problem. So methadone buprenorphine and now trek zone or the three main medications that have been shown to be affective in reducing craving and withdrawal of is this type of treatment in an ideal world, if they were able to get that medication assisted treatment during incarceration and continue that post release might study has shown that can reduce their likelihood of engaging in a variety of offenses and getting rearrested for a variety of offenses. So we have preliminary evidence that that would be affective. So we have to look at whether. Got it during incarceration as well. As they if they continued at post released and looking at their recidivism risk a lot of studies just look at whether people got the medication while they were incarcerated in whether they then are likely to be rearrested. But we're missing that that key variable there of whether they continued at post released was this not commonplace. There just a lot of barriers to implementing treatments in jails in a lot of it has to do with the logistical barriers and the financial issues staffing issues that jails across America face. There's kind of a belief that these treatments are substituting one drug for the other or you're allowing people to kind of just continue to get high off of things like methadone, and that's just not true. But there's a lot of misconceptions about the medication assisted treatment right now. Especially in the Justice system Kelly. Moore is a licensed clinical psychologist and assistant professor at east Tennessee State university. Thanks very much for speaking with us. Thank you. You for having. Executive producer is Nicole Childers. Our digital producer is Miguel. Contreras engineer is Brian Alison, and I'm Sabrina Benesch. You're with the marketplace morning report. From A P PM American public media.

United States Amazon Walmart New York City Tracey Samuelson Sabrina Benesch New York Kelly Moore Ben Bradford department of Justice Charles Plotkin NAFTA Overdose trade Commission International Trade Commission David Brancaccio Jane Addams American journal of public hea Dartmouth College
The Widow: Part 1

My Life of Crime with Erin Moriarty

23:15 min | 1 year ago

The Widow: Part 1

"But you cases have these twists and turns that just take you about underneath that very the county nine one one ma'am well every case has twists and turns every single case does uh-huh and what the autopsy say homicide we're going to Knoxville to solve the mystery it's baffled the best in David's wife Ray Nella leave we begin in a Knox County Tennessee courtroom on morning in May two thousand seventeen it's raised questions about a county's judicial system and has forever tarnished the reputation of the mysterious woman added center eighteen two thousand three this frantic call came into the sheriff's Office in Knox County Tennessee a suicide forty eight hours and this is my life of crime get ready to hear about a case like no other it has so many twists and I'd call itself was not unusual there more than ninety suicides every day in this investigators in legal minds in the state for more than sixteen years this is a case that has pitted a daughter against her stepmother earns we need six episodes to tell it all so here goes part one of the widow her name is Raine Nella league and her name ordinary suicide yeoman's lying in bed covered with blankets and covers fingers are a case begins like so many others do with a call to nine one one on March dozen but is it possible it's not uncommon for men in their fifties well I'll just say we waited for the autopsy country and most involve white middle aged males but the death of fifty seven year old David Lead would turn out to be no I'll just say we waited for the autopsy and what the autopsy say I'm Erin Moriarty nobody had guns lying beside him I o coke another detective questions a widow who found him when when you when you open the bedroom door and you went in you touched him riding hours an appointed senior judge by the Tennessee Supreme Court most every case that I try is somewhat controversial and this one's right brain ella was telling the police that he'd committed suicide that's Beth Roberts David controvercial because of the woman sitting in front of him in the defendant's chair lays just like anybody else who's charged in a criminal case also a high profile trial is beginning with senior State Judge Paul Summers Gordon or husband's suicide and now more than fourteen years later she's in court on trial for his murder is innocent until proven guilty Ray Nila leads is the one who made that frantic nine one one call back in two thousand three code and turning stiff attack the toll toll to fill this is the voice of the lead detective Perry Moyer's Day as he walks into the dead man's as a woman in her late sixties this elegant tall grey haired grandmother and mother the last person you would suspect a being it's not just about to go on trial for murder she was born Ray Nella large she married Dawson Polical Burner Rennell is out on bond so she arrives before the judge usually with both of her grown daughters at our side uh all we knew about this case was that Ray Nella leap was accused of killing her husband and had been suspected in killing an earlier husband the classic black widow but what made the case interest same was that she was anything but the usual suspects your she it's almost as if she's the one holding court she's smiling greeting friends and supporters in the pack room as if she and then she married a leaf so she's got a long name when you throw it all together such as southern name it's it couldn't be any place else but in the it made me want to learn more and every time I turn to page in this story there was something more to learn there were two separate rooms in the courtroom I mean it was two sides completely ignoring each other sixteen jurors are also in the great smoky mountains where she was born tie in fanning who wrote a book about Ray Nelas life titled Her deadly Web is one of the dozens of writers and journalists was drawn to this trial like moths to a flame in you can feel the Spanish moss dripping off the story and that's very you're you would see rain Allah and her daughters reading supporters never looking over I mean you know it was almost as if in the courtroom is packed with journalists like me spectators and family members like Beth Roberts David Lee's cousin much like this there is the gentility of rain Nila Dasa leave so many of these people in the trial I mean way aren't you getting to help resolve a missed exactly Michael Ikano community that our professionals and underneath that very respectable surface it seems like everything's rotting to the core room they're sitting to the right Judge Summers which twelve will actually deciphering Nellis fate will be decided at the end of the and who went to the trial every day and what was your first impression of rain Allah she fills up a room I mean that's the first thing is that accounts it was a love match David leads was the handsome barber in town Ray Nella the attractive widow with large home and farm left to her by e up twenty five miles away in Oak Ridge Tennessee that's the town high in the smoky mountains best known for the Manhattan Project They are making a decision that will either let her go home spend time with grandchildren or put her back in prison for the rest of her life shocked and the woman they knew in high school could not have been where she is now it was at East Tennessee State University up she was a student that teachers noticed noted I talked to some people who knew her in high school who were absolutely and I would imagine she would have been a catch for anybody on unlike her two husbands Ray Nella wasn't from Knoxville she she was very pretty told me that she first met Ray Nella twenty four years ago how soon after she had married David I said to my mother I thought he'd hit the jacket mantech scandal to talk about and some of Dave spreads were Mercilus they would not cut him any slack they gave him Suzhou's well educated and yet in this environment she still stood out as an excellent student choosing the physics club and the chemistry club pod with this girl because she was so pretty and so interesting and when she talked to you it was like you're the only person in the room and she was ten now rain Nella was such a confident woman and she would walk into a room and Dawson she had her own thing going on it's not like she needed a husband I mean she was a very attractive very well read woman quite your here's another how he's fired more than once there hasn't been more than that look right into the bed brought with a gun slinging there's also a shot into the bay which is a little suspicious in itself and Jesse caps are actually excited to be part of this high profile drama it's this is the stuff of movie dreams you can make a great one out of this whole thing contractors stone and webster built a city eventually the fifth largest undersea Diane Fannie Mae Nella large stood out he her new husband's best friend in a small town in chess and those details don't go unnoticed able to have this little bro they soon became Knoxville's power couple they were successful her husband was elected district attorney he was respected she was the director of nursing ably interested in what you had to say both of them have been married before rain Ella's first husband at Dasa had died just six months earlier and happened Ranelagh met and then married her first husband at Dasa he brought her home to Knoxville where he went to law school and she worked as a nurse in a hospital in a tough confident woman it's what drew at Dawson toured in the beginning but when he brought her home she but Knoxville was and is at its heart an old fashioned southern town she has a strong personality and Josh Hedrick a thirty apparently put some people off and I know that that was a huge concern on the part of defense attorneys when you have success sometimes that makes P had she was taller than the average woman she held herself with pride and there was something like having her for a crack or a flaw when things are suspicious it sticks with them harder and they hold onto it the resentment simmered even here's the way she had put off people in town Ray Nellor Leaf got where she was which was head of nursing at Park West Hospital by being rain now lonely okay I'd be live releases hard hard time about it but it was more in a good natured way although that was accompanied by a little bit of concern that he was moving too fast but by most his side that made him proud indirectly she just was exactly what he's looking for even though we didn't know it till founder really started looking at this and saying I don't know that this is exactly right maybe this is a suicide but it doesn't look like one isn't it possible that David inside the hand of David Lee dead investigators start questioning this story of suicide I think it was probably immediate because there were three thought there was more than one shot three shots one bullet was found in the headboard another in the mattress one in David Lees I was trying to shoot himself missed and then just try it again I mean no it's not when when you the day and he's troubled by what Ray Nella Lee said she did when she found her husband now remember she's a nurse and it was like you knew she was there she had presence and I think that Ed was really drawn to that has been suicide a medical examiner ended the autopsy and reached a very different conclusion so the medical examiner determined after Ed Dawson died in nineteen ninety two in what was ruled an agricultural accident Brunell is sudden marriage to his best friend David Leaf just six title more interested and your downfall they wanna see a successful person fall Diane fanning agrees people are looking volver a six shot revolver a police type of weaponry common weapon and it was laying with the hammer months later didn't help matters and then on march thirteen two thousand three there was a call to nine one one seven year old local defense attorneys says Ray nelas manner put a lot of people off there was a concern particularly with the jury that right now li-the would put off the forehead and and while that's not unheard of with didn't look like a suicide scene and so I think from the beginning pay more who is the detective take to get to this day in court or the fact that it would take more than fourteen years and this is actually Ray Nella lease third murder trial when you open the bedroom door and you went in you cut them Stephen crump wasn't on the case back in March two thousand three body has listened to all the audio tapes there's no blood found on her she doesn't try CPR she doesn't she doesn't even check to see if he's did just twenty four hours after Ray Nella leads reported there's were more successful the following year Ray Nello was convicted and sentenced to life in prison she spent six years behind bars win oh she was I tried for her husband's murder back in two thousand nine but the jurors couldn't decide so the judge declared a mistrial prosecute she says she talked to him and he didn't answer and she said she looked at him and realize that something wasn't right there was an enormous pool of blood around wait until the state tried again this time around it Stephen Crumbs job prosecutors know the term snake bit that conviction was vacated the reason well as it turns out the judge you Hanover trial had a serious drug addiction so Rinella was sent home to but as you're about to hear leaving in a cases one thing improving it in court has been something else entirely can you connect here and she was a nurse and she says she immediately calls nine one one nine one one she doesn't attempt to rolling over he thinks she covered him up he doesn't give him CPR no she doesn't tell Annella to that weapon fingerprints ONC- or pick up the gun. Can you connect Ranelagh to any bullets that were used in that gun comforter in the sheet This is Stephen crump he's the district attorney general prosecuting right now literally where's the weapon the weapon was a cold really an unusual unusual scenario clamp tells me he's determined to make a conviction stick and this is not the only murder the rain sorry followed by a guilty verdict followed by the case being upheld on appeal then set aside and back for third trials so it's it's get gunshot residue on it that's what I think you're describing a pretty cold blooded killer yes that's what I think she's take human life she missed the first shot she scored with the second shot she ended his life for that second shot and then an attempt to cover up fired that third shot and because what can go wrong we'll go wrong in a case sometimes but this one was tortured from a procedural standpoint something that we don't normally see a hundred mid suicide shooting the gun three times okay that's odd but then when you go back and you look and find out that her first husband died even under stranger circles he is suspected of committing a couple of years after David Lee died investigators decided to take another look at how rain ellas no that's a problem isn't it in this case if juries looking for that then yes no one back in two thousand three could have predicted take a look back at Ray Nella lease background when you look at our first husband died you go wait a minute so she has a husband who supposedly story that's being told regardless of accuracy is juicy it's interesting people are discussing it they had to have opinions about on his overalls you can't even make that up that's life in a small town attorney Judge Hedrick says investigators had second thoughts Reno was charged with docents murder to the ambitious woman from Oak Ridge Tennessee I husband I remember in that agricultural accident at Dawson had been trampled by his own cattle let me explain for all the county medical examiner assumed that he had been trampled by catalog ruled as an accident but after David Lee died radio judy tigard is our executive producer Nancy Kramer our executive story editor Mike Fillet the series producer editor Z.. And made a name for herself alright a name no one would want the black widow it's when you dances rules an agricultural death it's hard to believe the reason why it was ruled that way was he was found with hoof marks this episode was produced by Josh Gainer Lisa freed and Louise Geraldo and edited by Mike mccue and Wayne Tolleson thanks to compose the living thing those stories rumors swirling around Ray Nella leave worry attorney Hedrick because he's L. defending her along with an out of state attorney Rebecca Legrand they believe Ray Nellie has never killed any yeah well coincidence me I'm ninety two he was in poor health he was terminally ill with

Ray Nella David Lee attorney murder Judge Hedrick Knoxville Knox County Ranelagh editor Stephen crump Oak Ridge Tennessee Dawson Ray Nellie Tennessee Mike Fillet executive producer Nancy Kramer Reno
E103: The Fall River Cult Pt. 2 - Robin Murphy

Cults

45:51 min | 1 year ago

E103: The Fall River Cult Pt. 2 - Robin Murphy

"Fame money obsession these things can make athletes seem superhuman but what happens when those in professional sports reveal the darker side of their humanity every week the podcast original sports criminals investigate some of the most significant sports crimes throughout the world. They'll explore the dramatic collision course of our most revered athletes and the underbelly of society you learn about at these athletes rise through competitive sports and how the discipline and motivation that brought them to the top served to push them into their downfall. Whether you're a rabid fan or a passive observer their stories carry significance for us all listen and subscribe to sports criminals for free on spotify and anywhere anywhere you listen to podcasts and hang around after the end of the show you can hear a clip of the first episode of sports criminals due to the graphic nature of this cult's crimes listener discretion is advised this episode includes discussions of drugs abuse and violent murder order that some people may find offensive. We advise extreme caution for children under thirteen in the evening of February sixteenth nineteen eighty detective Alan. Silvia sat nervously beneath a lurid painting of Satan. He couldn't believe he was investigating a homicide involving a satanic cult looking around the room at the Dingy apartment. He felt a rising sense of dread. The detective they've waited nervously for the religious service to start a dozen worshipers together with detective Sylvia and his partner arrange themselves in circle candles cast bizarre shadows across the room. One individual sat in the middle of the group leading the worshippers through chant of Hail Satan Hail Satan. The chant went on for some time with the leaders voice becoming more more and more intense. Some people swayed others mumbled under their breath for several moments detective Sylvia heard a man make incoherent noises as though he were speaking in tongues eventually the chanting die down and the service abruptly ended as people began to filter into the kitchen to eat. Sylvia heard a man at a nearby bedroom speaking in a low guttural voice. The voice said Satan will have his toll when Sylvia looked into the room. He felt the hair stand up on the back of his neck. The speaker had not not been a man rather the deep unsettling voice he'd heard had come from the mouth of seventeen year old. Robin Murphy Fi Robin was looming over a young sex worker who was sitting wide eyed on the bed. The girl was practically cowering in fear Hi. I'm Greg Poulsen and I'm Vanessa Richardson and this is called. It's a podcast original. Every Tuesday we look at cults practices their leader and their followers you can find all episodes of cults and all other park has originals for free on spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts to stream calls for free the on spotify just open the APP tap browse and type cults in the search bar at park cast. Were grateful for you our listeners you allow us to do what we love. Love let us know how we're doing reach out on facebook and Instagram at par cast and twitter at podcast network and if you enjoyed today's episode so the best way to help us is to leave a five star review wherever you're listening it really does help today were continuing our look at the Fall River Satanic Nick cult which was implicated in a series of murders in nineteen seventy nine and nineteen eighty last week we explored the murder of Doreen Leveque back and the key figures in the cult Carl drew and Robin Murphy this week we'll dive into the subsequent murders and the investigation that exposed boost the cult and its activities to the world in late October of Nineteen seventy-nine. Fall River Massachusetts was in turmoil state and local police were struggling to investigate the death of Doreen Leveque. A teenage teenage girl who was murdered at a local high school evidence suggested she had been tortured prior to her death by stoning and archaic and disturbing ritual Listrik Practice police had been unable to pinpoint any suspects but many suspicions were aimed at a local satanic cult. The unnamed called halt was mostly made up of sex workers and pimps who met regularly to worship Satan. The true practices of the group were unknown to those outside of it but members reportedly engaged in animal and human sacrifices. They've frequently invoked the name of Satan to threaten others with other worldly retribution. Metro bution members believed that Satan rather than God was the true savior he was the Bringer of light and enlightenment to them physical pleasure. You're through sex drugs and alcohol was Satan skift that was preferable to some mystical afterlife that may or may not really exist while the investigation into the cult was ongoing. It proceeded slowly. There was no one who was willing to tell police what really went on at the gatherings so state Trooper Loyd. Wheaton was surprised to get an unsolicited call from one of the cult members. Andy multi-race mall taste was a drug addict petty thief and convicted sex criminal. Weedon couldn't imagine why the man was calling him at home on a weeknight and his voice sounded dreamy on the phone to Wheaton Andy sounded high the trooper finally cut to the chase and asked Andy what he wanted and and that was when Maltese dropped a bombshell he told Wheaton he knew something about the recent murder of during leveque and wanted to be put in contact with the investigator. Wedin had serious doubts that mall tastes had useful information but he agreed to put Andy in touch with the state detective who was investigating the case. This wheaton skepticism was well-founded. Andy Mall taste was a familiar figure to the police in fall river. He and his ex girlfriend Barbara Barbara Poza were known Satan worshippers who were involved with the Bedford Street Satanic cult like the other women in the cult. Barbara worked in the sex trade trade and he had begun seeing her when she was just a teenager he would later claimed to have fathered her son Eric. Though the claim was never substantiated regardless Barbara had recently dumped anti and had started seeing someone else after his initial call to Wheaton. Mull taste proved difficult Colt for the state investigator to reach. He never seemed to be home. It wasn't until around the last week of November nineteen seventy nine that they finally met in person multi-race rambled for quite some time about his past and his ex girlfriend he seemed intent on letting the detectives know that he was no longer a satanist he'd become a born again Christian and had left the satanic cult he was even armed with the Bible to prove it and he stated once. I worshipped Satan but now I worship Jesus investigators could tell right away than Andy was delusional he he told investigators that God spoke to him on a regular basis. He also claim to be a psychic. The police couldn't decide if he was suffering from a legitimate mental illness and if he posed a threat to himself or others Andy Did infact show many symptoms of Psychosis Vanessa's going to take over. We're on the psychology here and throughout the episode please note Vanessa is not a licensed psychologist or psychiatrist but she has done a lot of research for the show. Thanks Greg doctors define psychosis as an inability to tell what is real and what's not delusions and hallucinations are common during psychotic episodes. These episodes can be caused by existing mental illnesses like schizophrenia or even sleep deprivation but they can also be caused caused by drugs and Andy was known to have a long history of drug abuse according to a study led by Dr Jennifer H Barnett of the University of Cambridge more than half of all people diagnosed with psychosis are drug abusers despite Andy's apparent mental issues. He's still provided provided police with a useful lead. He told them that while he didn't personally know anything he knew two people who did their names were Robin. Murphy and Karen Marston Robin was seventeen years old in late nineteen seventy nine and had already been on the streets for several years. She'd worked in the sex trade and also pimped for other women. She was streetwise and known to be a master manipulator and he had been supplying her with drugs and alcohol and sexually abusing her since she was eleven years old her girlfriend. Karen Marsden was three years older but Robin was was the dominant one in their relationship. Robin was openly unfaithful. Having casual flings and pursuing other partners Karen had a son living with a local foster family and had fallen into sex work because of her drug addictions a week after his first meeting with investigators. Andy Drove Robert and Karen and to meet with Paul Fitzgerald the lead detective working for the State Police. They would never have come on their own so andy lied and said the police wanted their help with something else else went fitzgerald. Ask them what they knew about the murder. Karen Marsden was taken off guard and immediately blurted out. Carl drew killed during Leveque back. Carl drew was another familiar figure to police. He was a pimp in the Bedford Street district of Fall River he'd been in and out of jail L. on several occasions and once been accused of murder though the charges had ultimately been dropped he was also a key figure in the local satanic cult old and was rumored to have been the one who started it after Karen claim that Carl drew killed Doreen Detective Fitzgerald Prester for more information but Karen was unwilling to give him much of anything else she continually called him the devil as though he truly Satan himself she went so far as to tell the detective detective. If you find me dead Carl drew did it. Robin on the other hand said she didn't know anything about the murder she claimed to have no. Oh idea what Karen was talking about. Fitzgerald's hands were tied. He needed more information if he was going to try to build a case around. Carl drew particularly clearly since there wasn't a shred of evidence linking Carl to the murder though he heard several more times from Karen Marsden about her fears of Carl Drew Fitzgerald. Herald never got any more substantive information from her andy. However was a different story he continued to make regular calls to Fitzgerald's office this throughout December and January checking up on the case in offering useless information he rambled about his newfound Christianity and seemed to be under the delusion that he was working for the police? Andy also started pestering Fitzgerald and other state police officials about his ex girlfriend Barbara Riposte he claimed she disappeared in November and he hadn't seen her since he even filed a missing persons report though no one took it very seriously police were more concerned with solving the leveque case sex workers and drug addicts ran off or disappeared all the time fitzgerald figured Barbara was with her new boyfriend rent but all that changed on Saturday January twenty sixth nineteen eighty it was a cold winter day in Massachusetts -Chusetts but the sky was bright and sunny that afternoon a local hunter took his retriever dogs out for a training session in fall river they they went to an empty overgrown field behind it printing factory on the southern edge of town there. His dogs came across a corpse in the tall grass. The woman was nude from the waist down and her hands had been bound her body was badly decomposed and her head and face had been crushed bloody cinderblocks lay nearby and there were flags of cement in her hair. Investigators showed up within the hour. They was immediately immediately clear that the woman had been sexually assaulted before her murder within a few hours police identified her as nineteen year old Barbara Poza Andy's ex girlfriend andy was brought in for questioning by detectives Sylvia of the local Fall River police for no apparent reason and he showed up wearing a western shirt and cowboy boots. He had a huge belt buckle that said Texas in block letters and was carrying a Bible people with him. Sylvia was surprised to say the least he had no idea andy was supposedly a born again. Christian in fact he knew nothing about Andy's dealings rulings with the state police in the murder of during hlavac communication between law enforcement departments at that time wasn't always good. Sylvia knew only that Andy had reported Barbara reported missing and now she turned up dead. Andy told Sylvia that he had been working undercover for the state police and that detective -tective Paul Fitzgerald would soon arrive to take over the case. He refused to talk to Sylvia about Barbara. Andy's erotic behavior made it clear clear to Sylvia he was mentally ill and he strongly suspected this unstable man was responsible for Barbara's death but detective Fitzgerald and the the State police disagreed fitzgerald thought that Andy was eccentric but he didn't think he was capable of murder. He was ultimately released without providing any new information fitzgerald instead brought in Dave Cowan for questioning Cowan was Barbara's new boyfriend and the last person known to have seen her alive. Cowan told the state police that on the night Barbara disappeared they went to dinner and then she went out to work the streets. He claimed claimed to have never seen her again after that. If Collin was telling the truth it meant the police had little to go on there had been at apparent ritualistic aspect to Doreen Webex killing it appeared. She'd been stoned to death. Barbara's murder did not have the same ritualistic properties but they were numerous other similarities. Both women were young sex. Workers both had been found nude from the waist down both rebound by the hands both were killed outside and had been bludgeoned agent in a murderous rage. Though Karen Marsden had pointed the finger at Carl drew the one person who seemed to be connected to both killings feelings was Andy Maltese and whether he claimed to have left the satanic cult or not police believe he had participated in many violent rituals rituals over the years. Luckily authorities and himself would provide them a break on February fifth nineteen eighty that morning. Andy called Detective Detective Fitzgerald in his imagined role as an assistant to the investigation anti told Fitzgerald he now knew everything he knew how Barbara a had died when Fitzgerald asked him how he knew Andy told him I had a dream last night. coming up we'll hear about the bizarre dream that Andy claimed was psychic vision of Baba reposes brutal murder fame money obsession these things can make athletes seem superhuman but what happens pens when those in professional sports reveal the darker side of their humanity every week the podcast original sports criminals investigates some of the most significant can sports crimes throughout the World Bill explore the dramatic collision course of our most revered athletes and the underbelly of society you learn about these athletes it's rise through competitive sports and how the discipline and motivation that brought them to the top served to push them into their downfall. Whether you're a rabid fan Dan or a passive observer their stories carry significance for us all listen and subscribe to sports criminals for free on spotify and anywhere you listen to podcasts and if he hanging around after the end of the show you can hear it clip of the first episode of sports criminals now now back to the story in late January nineteen eighty the severely beaten body of sex worker Barbara Bro REPULSA was found in a field behind a printing factory police suspected either Barbara's current boyfriend Dave Cowan or her unstable selects former satanist Andy Maltese of committing the murder ten days after her body was discovered. Andy called police and and told them he knew what had happened to her because he'd seen it all in psychic dream. Police immediately brought Andy to the station to hear his story. He told them that in his dream he was floating above the field where Barbara had been murdered. Andy said he watched as a heavy set man in a leather jacket. Get beat Barbara with a rock. Barbara was lying on the ground and the assailant was squatting near her head. One of the investigators showed andy a picture of the field where the murder took place. He asked Andy to mark the spot where he saw the murder recurring he put an X. right over the place where the body had been found owned by the hunting dogs. Andy told detectives he couldn't see the man's face clearly and didn't know who he was. Barbara was screaming calling out to Andy to help her as though she could see him there floating in the trees above the field in the dream he was helpless to intervene he couldn't move. He heard the assailant telling her that. Andy wouldn't help her anymore. Near the end of the interview anti changed his story slightly my saying that the murder weapon hadn't been Iraq after all but a piece of concrete. This detail had not been released to the press. Andy displayed aide the symptoms of someone who's suffering from delusion of grandeur. This is a specific kind of delusion in which the sufferer falsely believes they have special abilities or important connections to famous people. It's frequently seen in those suffering from schizophrenia and bipolar disorder but it can also be present isn't in drug addicts clinical psychologist. Rebecca Knowles has stated grandiose delusions are found across a wide range of psychiatric conditions nations including a substantial proportion of patients with Substance Abuse Disorders. Andy's long history of drug abuse may have predisposed him to such delusions during his time in the satanic cult he'd been able to use claims of psychic powers and mystic visions as a way to manipulate people he may have of assumed he could control police in the same way unfortunately for him. His Psychic Act functioned as little more than a confession in the eyes of police unfit beury's seventh nineteen eighty. Andy was arrested at his home where he lived with his mother. He was arraigned. The following day for the murder of of Barbara Repulsa investigators were eager to close the case and if possible tie andy to the Doreen Leveque murder as well the similarities already so the two murders gave investigators hope that they now had the perpetrator of both crimes behind bars. Unfortunately any lingering hopes of a clean wrap-up up were soon shattered on the afternoon of February Eighth Nineteen Eighty Fall River police detective Alan Silvia got a a phone call from Karen Marsden whom he had become acquainted with about a week earlier he'd met her during his investigations at harbor terrace the apartment complex flex where he'd been interviewing sex workers in the Doreen Leveque case in their past interviews. Karen had only told him she was terrified of Carl drew. She regularly referred referred to him as the Devil at this point in the investigation. Sylvia knew nothing about Karen's interactions with state police detective Paul Fitzgerald it it had been back in December that she'd told Fitzgerald that Carl drew had killed two Doreen now she had called local police and made the same claims James in the few days Sylvia had known her Karen had begun expressing a growing fear of Robin Murphy as well as Carl drew she told Sylvia that several the months earlier Robert and taking her and another sex worker named Carol Fletcher to a remote spot in the deep woods outside of Fall River after parking the car in a secluded spot Robin Lead Karen and Carol into a small clearing in the woods. There was a pond nearby. The water inside was green and covered with algae near two trees was a stone structure that Robin told them was an altar their pentagram etched into some of the trees and other unfamiliar symbols this according to Robin was was worth satanic rituals were held at normal gatherings animals were sacrificed on the altar and the carcasses thrown into the water but robin claimed that every every month on the full moon at a special ritual a human being was sacrificed the worshippers would get high have sex and then gather other in a circle to worship and sacrifice to Satan. It was here. Robin told the women that Carl drew would kill them. If they talked to police yes he would inject battery acid into their veins and sacrifice their souls to the devil upon hearing this account detective Sylvia Doubted Carl all had really made such a threat. It was all too ridiculous. It seemed more likely that Robin was using Karen's fear of Carl to manipulate her detective. Sylvia was starting to believe that Robyn knew more about the murders then she was leading on even so Sylvia continued to meet with Karen. I tried to get her to open up about what she knew. But the interview on February eighth proved no different than the others Karen expressed fear for her son and family and insisted that there was nothing the police could do to protect her. She stated I have a little boy. I have a grandmother and a mother other and father. You can't put everyone I know in protective custody Carlin Robin would get to her one way or the other even if it meant harming her loved ones in tears she finally asked detective Sylvia to drop her off at a local Catholic Church. Sylvia dropped her off in front of the stone refectory at Saint Mary's. He's Cathedral a few blocks away from the Bedford Street Red Light district. A priest opened the door and Karen disappeared inside the following day February ninth nineteen eighty. A phone call came into the Fall River police station it was Robin Murphy. She was upset and had something she wanted to get offered chest. Sylvia does colleagues immediately went to meet her at Harvard Terrace the housing project where she frequently stayed they'd I've been to this apartment before it belonged to Robin's occasional girlfriend Sunny Sparta and it was where the called often gathered to worship during the cold months they found robin high and smelling of alcohol sitting under the Leering Portrait of Satan on the wall but detectives immediately noticed noticed that Robin wasn't her normal self and not just because she was under the influence she seemed tense and upset a mood completely different from the aura of of cool composure. She normally gave off. She quickly got to the point saying I've got to get this off my chest. I was there when anti he killed Barbara. Robin told detectives that Andy Killed Barbara because she had been seeing Dave Cowan. Though it was an extreme example this this was in keeping with Andy's typical behavior when he and Robin had been together in prior years he'd frequently beaten her if she dated other men evidence discovered by researchers at the national domestic violence hotline suggest that Andy's behavior is not unusual abuse rarely gets better over. We're time instead it tends to worsen often leading to serious injuries and in extreme cases even death robin went on to tell investigators that she called Andy on the night of November seventh to pick her up at a restaurant and give her a ride to her mother's house. After he picked her up he told older Barbara had just called for a right to Andy and Robin went to get Barbara on the drive over. Andy told Robin that he planned to kill Barbara because she was dating someone else. Robyn took this information in stride unsure whether he was being serious or just letting off steam when I'm Barbara got into the car rob and moved to the back seat and deliver joint in past hit around according to Robin. Barbara was annoyed that Robin was there. She and Barbara began arguing about it and punches were thrown as the two women fought across the seeds. Robin eventually dragged Barbara into the backseat where their struggle ruggles continued and he pulled the car up behind printing factory came around to the back seat and told Barbara to get out Barbara took took off her pants apparently preparing for sex she then laid down on a code and the grass while Andy grabbed several sex toys from the trunk of his car car. Robin remained in the car listening to the radio while the two had sex. She testified that at one point anti used one of his sex toys. I'm Barbara. It's it's not clear from her testimony. Whether this was consensual or not if it wasn't it's certainly wouldn't have been the first time Andy had sexually abused someone. Andy was known to be a sexual sadist that is someone who derives sexual pleasure from causing psychological or physical pain to others while while milder forms of sadomasochism between consenting adults is considered normal when those activities escalate problems occur according to Dr George Brown professor of Psychiatry at East Tennessee State University sexual sadism disorder occurs when sadistic urges has caused distress or harm or when such urges are acted on in a non consenting manner andy multi slight to engage in behavior like this combining it with a tendency to seek out vulnerable underage girls his brutal relationship with Robin Murphy began when she was only eleven and he had previously done time for sexually assaulting two fifteen year old girls shortly after observing Andy and Barbra having sex Robin. I heard them begin to argue. She saw Andy Lift what she thought was Iraq and begin to beat Barbara with it. When Andy came back to the car he got in the driver driver seat and drove Robin Home. Robin told investigators that she had waited until now to say anything because she'd been terrified Andy now that he was in custody custody. She felt more confident coming forward but she told him she was still scared for her safety. She feared Andy might put out a hit on her from inside prison prison. As a result police offered to put her in protective custody with her testimony against Andy Mall tastes she was now the government's star a witness. They put her up in a hotel and checked in with her twice. A day. The same day that Robin told police about her presence up the murder of Barbara Poza the fall river police department got a call from an older woman. She told the officer on the phone that her granddaughter was missing. The granddaughter's name was Karen Marsden up next. We'll see how the disappearance of Karen Marsden made investigators. Peter's rethink everything now back to the story on February ninth nineteen eighty investigators in Fall River Massachusetts got a call that Karen Marston had gone missing police had been regularly meeting with Karen Marsden for information on the murder of Doreen Leveque Vac Karen had been unwilling to talk due to her fear of her former Pimp twenty-five-year-old Carl drew Carl drew was a prominent member number of local satanic cult along with seventeen year old Robin Murphy police for now beginning to believe that Robin played a bigger role in the cult and the murders than ah I thought as soon as detectives learned that Karen was missing they feared the worst detective Sylvia and his colleagues conducted interviews with with Karen's friends and associates trying to find some clue as to her disappearance this time they brought Carl drew in and questioned him he cooperated operated and agreed to let the police photograph his tattoos including the Satan heads on his arm and chest. He calmly told Sylvia he'd last seen Karen several hours after Sylvia had dropped her off at the Church Carl said he'd been standing on a street corner and she had driven by with Robin Murphy and Carol Fletcher. He didn't see them again after that. Sylvia was forced to let cargo but he and his partner Paul Carey spent a lot of time at the harbour terrace apartments comments in the week following Karen's disappearance. They talked to several sex workers there and spent a lot of time interviewing sunny Sparta who was likely a madam and stayed eight in the housing project where the Satanic cult regularly met it was thanks to these interviews that local police found themselves at a Satanic Worship Service Ebonite of February Sixteenth Robin Murphy and Carl drew were among the dozen or so worshippers at Sonny's apartment that night the Robin was now in protective custody as the state star witness against Andy Maltese she still have the freedom to come and go as she pleased sunny had told Sylvia and Kerry that members of the cult met in her apartment in the winter or out in the nearby woods during the warmer months their services were for them just like going to church. They worshiped Satan the attempted to conjure him to be inspired guided by him. The services could sometimes go on for an hour or more it was after that disappointingly brief service in Sonny's apartment that Sylvia heard Robbins speak in an other worldly worldly voice stating Satan will have his toll though it made the hairs stand up on the back of his neck. Silvia root it off her ability to change your voice as a trick. She must have practiced as the days passed. Sylvie interviewed a number of additional witnesses who who testified they heard Carl drew talk about Satan and threaten people with Satans Vengeance. One of these witnesses was carol. Fletcher who had worked for Carl can had been with Karen the night Robin drove them out to the sacrifice site in the woods others that Sylvia interviewed pointed the finger toward Robin Murphy both Sunny Sunny Sparta and a young sex worker named Terry told detectives that Robin had admitted to killing Karen Marsden yet. Another witness told police thirty heard Robbins say she'd been present at Doreen Leveque killing with this bit of testimony Robin was connected to both known murders and Karen's disappearance the local. Da Sent Robin to Dallas Texas for safekeeping under the guise of her police protection and the riposte the case but the real reason was to keep her from tampering with any witnesses in the Karen Marsden case on April Thirteenth nineteen eighty the the search for Karen ended in horror. The top half of a skull called calvinism was found some rural land in nearby Westport. Massachusetts sits around ten miles south of fall river. The rest of the scene was just as horrifying pieces of clothing and several clumps of hair her pulled out by the roots were also discovered. Three carcasses of dead. Cats were lined up geometrically next to the body. The cats had been savagely disemboweled their entrails were scattered among three carefully placed stones which formed a triangle but nothing was as disturbing as the skull it was missing the jaw and facial bones but it was still partially covered with skin hairs from Cairns. It's hairbrush were matched to hairs found at the crime scene. Sylvia recognized the pieces of clothing has those Karen was wearing the night. He dropped her off at the church. In in time skull x rays taken of Karen were used to identify the calvinism as belonging to Karen Marston while the crime I am seen was still being investigated. Robin Murphy was in Texas under witness protection as the key witness in the murder of Barbara Repulsa but while she was there she made a fateful phone. Call back home to her friend. Sonny Sparta little did she know police were monitoring the call and were actually actually sitting in the room with sunny. When Karen Rang during the call Robin admitted to killing Karen Marston with a taped confession passion fall river investigators felt increasingly confident that they could build a case around Robin Murphy when confronted with the Evidence Robin knew she was cornered honored. She decided it was time to make a deal. Robin told police that on the night Doreen Leveque was killed back in October of nineteen seventy nine fine she was with Carl drew and another man named Willie Smith Finding Doreen on a corner. They stopped to pick her up. The Robin had managed to work as a freelancer on Bedford Street. She was an exception to the rule. The pimps in the area especially Carl drew didn't normally allow sex workers to work the streets unless they had a pimp. If you wanted to cash in on the Bedford Street market you had to be working for someone after picking up. Doreen Carl all tried to persuade her to work for him. Instead of being a freelancer. She refused saying she preferred to work alone. Carl threatened her promising that Satan always got what was due to him. He eventually reached into the backseat and hit her in the face. After the slap Duran's mouth was bleeding and she began to cry. Carl finally asked her again if she would work for him despite her injury she remained defiant plant that according to Robin lets her fatal mistake after she refused him for the final time. Carl drove to the local high school cool he drove around to the rear and pulled up near the bleachers away from the Security Lights Carl and Willie took Doreen out of the back seat and carried her out of sight. Robin claimed she remained in the car. Never saw what happened afterward. They were gone for ten minutes when they returned. Robbins said Willie was carrying Doreen shoes she told police that this was part of the satanic ritual taking something that belonged to the person Zain who Seoul was offered to the devil police were dumbfounded at the casual brutality of the account but Robin in wasn't done after finishing her story about Doreen she turned to the murder of Karyn Marston of the Night Karen Marsden disappeared. She and Robin went to visit Karen Son. Jj at his foster home afterward Carol Fletcher pick them up and they went to look for Carol's boyfriend and pimp a man named named Carl Davis when they finally found him he was with Carl drew. The two men got into the car and Carol drove off following instructions instructions from her boyfriend. Carol drove South Toward Westport Massachusetts an area that was rural and heavily wooded driving down a dark lane. Main Carol stopped the car and turned off the ignition in the back seat. Carl told Karen that her time had come. He'd warned her not talk to police but she'd done it anyway. Caryn finding a rare inner strength told Carl she wasn't afraid of him and that God would save her. Carl drew responded. God can't help you. The only one here is Satan. Robin Robin claimed that everything she did was at the insistence of Carl drew. She dragged Karen out of the car by her hair and hit her several times drawing blood what then holding her by the neck. She dragged her to a small clearing in the woods everyone including Carol and her boyfriend I friend Carl. Davis took rocks and threw them at Karen. She was screaming but in the deep woods there was no one to hear her cries Robin then held Karen by the neck while Carl drew severed her hand with a large knife. Karen was barely early conscious now but she was still groaning. Carl instructed Robin to perform a sex act on Karen fearing he turned his rage on her Robin complied applied. Robin testified that Carl next told her to cut Karen's throat Robin did the deed and then Carl removed moved the head then he forced robin to pull out all the hair before finally kicking the head around like a soccer ball next Carl knelt beside the headless body and carved a large axe across the torso from shoulder to hip as he did it. He chanted in a guttural voice offering Karen Soul to Satan then he rubbed his finger and Cairns blood and used it tomorrow can ex- on Robin's forehead. He told her now you're one of us after the gruesome act was over on the group drove back to Fall River Carol dropped rubbing off at harbor terrace robin went into Sunny Sparta's apartment and ate dinner before you're going to bed after Robin told police what she knew. She cut a deal with prosecutors after that things began to move very quickly early in the investigation. Carl drew was arrested and other witnesses began to come forward saying they no longer feared talking to police. The first person person to go on trial was Andy Mall tastes in January of nineteen eighty. One the trial only lasted a few days with Robin as the star witness witness he was quickly convicted of murdering Barbara Repulsa and sentenced to life in prison Carl drew then went on trial in March and was convicted of murdering Karen Marston. He too received a life sentence during the trial. Carl testified that he was not not a satanist had never attended a satanic ritual and knew nothing about satanism on Bedford Street. It took two more years before more. Willie Smith went to trial Smith was the man who assisted Carlin killing during leveque but the day before the trial was set to begin in early nineteen eighty-three. Robin Changed Her story. She told the judge she'd made it all up. It wasn't her who had been present at the murder but Karen Marston without Robin Robbins testimony against him. The state had no case against Willie Smith and he was released. The Fall River Satanic cult seems to have collapsed after the main players all went to prison. There's no further mention of it. After nineteen eighty furthermore not only does Carl drew maintained that he was never a satanist even rubbing murphy now claims that she made everything up to frame Carl in two thousand four. She told the Parole Board that Karen told her Carl had killed. Some people so Robin fabricated her entire testimony to get him off the streets. This recantation has not helped Carl drew judges have determined the new accounts to be spurious and have instead upheld his original conviction. He remains in prison today. His appeals long ago exhausted. Robin Murphy was granted parole in two thousand and four but was brought back to prison in two thousand eleven following a violation for associating with another ex convict. She was recently denied another chance at parole. Andy multiseason life sentence turned out to be short. He died in prison in nineteen eighty-seven after several strokes detective Alan Silvia of the Fall River police eventually retired from law enforcement and entered politics. He's he's been a member of the Massachusetts House of Representatives. Since two thousand twelve Sylvia account of having personally attended one of the services cast doubt on the claims claims of Robin Murphy and Carl drew who now say the fall river satanic cult never existed at all the murders of Doreen Leveque Barbara Arbroath Repulsa and Karen Marsden were media sensation and gained national headlines. The case helped to fuel the so called Satanic tanic panic that would reach its peak in the nineteen eighties and early nineteen nineties whether or not the fall river called was imaginary. The affected expected had on American society was very real Thanks again for tuning into cults. We'll be back with another another episode next Tuesday for more information on the fall river satanic cult amongst the many sources we used we found mortal remains by Henry Henry scammell extremely helpful to our research. You can find all episodes of cults and all other podcasts originals for free on spotify not only does spotify edify already have all of your favorite music but now spotify is making it easy for you to enjoy all of your favorite park last originals like cults for free from from your phone desktop or smart speaker to stream cults on spotify just open the APP tap browse and type cults in the search bar and don't forget to follow us on on facebook and instagram at par cast and twitter at podcast network. We'll see you next time. Colts was created by Max Cutler is a production of have cutler media and as part of the podcast network it is produced by Max and Ron Cutler sound design by Dick Schroeder with production assistance by Ron Shapiro Paul Moller Maggie Admire and Freddie Beckley. This episode of cults was written by Scott Christmas and stars Greg Poulsen and Vanessa Richardson.

Robin Murphy Fi Robin Barbara Poza Andy Doreen Carl Robin Murphy Carl drew murder Karen Sylvia Karen Marsden Barbara Barbara Poza fall river Doreen Leveque investigator Karen Marston Andy Mall Robin Robbins Alan Silvia spotify Carl Drew Fitzgerald Detective Detective Fitzgerald
Hour 1: Kenny Chesney

The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz

32:25 min | 1 year ago

Hour 1: Kenny Chesney

"Today's Dan Lebatardshow is sponsored by ADT COMMERCIAL FOR BUSINESS ADT commercial serves businesses ranging from mid size organizations to large scale enterprises. They give them as a special team. Who has one focus your business security? They provided comprehensive line of security fire life safety and risk management solutions professional official great systems for commercial great businesses with ADT commercial every day is Game Day fortune. One thousand companies reliant. Adt Commercial for a highly complex scalable integrated solutions that help solve their unique business challenges. And if you're looking for a partner upgrade or take over the monitoring and service of your current system. Adt Commercial can help to painlessly install and maintain large scale and multi site businesses no pain. That's good in sports sports and good and business security visit us today at Adt dot com slash special teams to learn more. This is the Dan lebatardshow with Stugatz. SPOT CASS. This carnival needs to get on up the hell Outta town I came here. I came here today. I'm not kidding and Somebody was in my parking spot and yeah and and I will. I will find no. I've told them No. I told I told some. ESPN employees car. Yeah no I told him get him out of here like what is your. What is the matter with these people yourself yeah? What is the tow truck back out of my garage? I don't use it that much but I came down here and I told myself I got. We were listening to you on the feed here while you doing something forced to potty. I'm looking at your face now. You're wearing the ravages of super bowl debauchery. Well on your face and Dan. Mike said you sounded like Harvey firestone. I could not believe how terrible look at billy laughing. You sound so bad. How many cigarettes have have you eaten this week? couple dozen. I mean I don't know last night was a tough one man. I had like Thirty Beers. I doing this show and the shirt I slept last night. I have no power my battery. I mean I have no clothes left. It's super bowl way. Dan What is a manner with him. Billy Lloyd Loyd. How bad does he smell? Like Li like liquor in diesel fuel. Now he's perked up some like but when he walked into as. You seem a little grouchy today. I don't know what was going. Non began he he. I asked him I go. You look like that looks like a sleeping series like this is the last night buddy. I just walked right here today. Listen He's GonNa get one o'clock one o'clock but he's GonNa get mad. I walk into radio grouchy because what I met with. Every morning is Lorenzo. He's played hey that dude's a plague and I asked this question Russian publicly and privately Lorenzo. Where's the stuff you're working on? Can we get it and use it or are we going to get it in June. The all the stuff stuff that you're working on that you're dragging us every damn direction when and are people going to see it unlikely. But that's how you taped Dan. You tape something and then six months later everybody forgets you did it and then you just do Hashtag. Tbt He's Milton for office space like accepting except he's tricked checked us like he's always working on something and I never get to put it on the air. He brought crooked as today. I mean I didn't bring this up so we can all sit around. It's landlord but oh no look. The whole week has been infuriating for a variety of different reasons. Not The least of which Lorenzo's really tired from doing a lot of of work none of which we can use. He's exhausted Miss President this morning. Also and then I get this from Lorenzo. I get this last night. It Hey can you round up your mom and your brother for me tomorrow. I'd like to use them. We surprised by the Super Bowl this week. Lorenzo like you're asking me the last day. Can I round roundup my family to work for you. Lorenzo or do you work for me at the end pretty hot today. You think. I'm kidding kidding. I told somebody I can't believe you did that. You do that. Did tell somebody what are you doing in my parking spot. Get The hell out of my Parkway Clark does your parking spots say Danley people think then run this place. These people think they run this place. It's the air. It's a good one but it doesn't actually say Dan Laboratory on it all the ballets no that that is where all of them know it. Oh this person just pulled up and was like Whoa. A tow truck showed up and took him away but clearly one of the valets did not know that that was your spot clearly. Oh that's not what's happening here. The valley's must not have been there the moment I handled it beforehand. But what I'm telling you. They're closing that entire street down the valleys for the valleys would dare is what you're saying. I'm I'm the one who gives them personally. The checks that they get so they would not have dared to told my car or allowed anybody to park in my spot. Give them checks. Yes no I pay. Every few months I pay for the parking. Unlike anybody else around here I pay for the parking lot. And you're the only one with Valet which is why you you probably correct valet drivers. They don't check like you're GONNA do extra work. Just give them some cash force in the bank the positive check. What are you doing so you get some old ones writing checks and the other one actually goes to the bank to deposit them? Well what. And what's to God's doesn't seem to understand is that the valets worked for somebody. I'm paying company so that the valets put my car where it belongs. Why do you sound so terrible? Why do you sound so defeated? What have you gotten into your bothered by everybody? You've been snippy offaire affair. While enjoying all the fame on air of everyone walking back behind you so that all year what. We're televising is your back as you stare at Terry Bradshaw's a cul de sac head. Yeah I mean listen first off I got a little cold to begin with secondly the heaters that help thirdly The thirty years I had last last night certainly aren't helping matters and close. I mean it's been a tough week. I don't know what to tell Ya. I sound bad I look bad. But that's what super bowl radio row is all about about. When you get the Friday Dan? You have to look bad. You have to smell bad you have to run close and you have to have no battery left on your phone or computer. You look almost unrecognizable recognizeable to me really. Yeah it's Mike. There's a lot of light it's bad light. It's four lighting. I gotta be honest with you. That shirt is absolutely I. I can't believe I cannot believe it's working on. ESPN shirt Mike. I want to look at shirt. That is the shirt that he slept in he is the biggest slob in the universe. He is a professional person in the history of ESPN. The an enemy jiggles air is awful big with Makeup Cup over here this show in some form or fashion since I think two thousand and five and Su God's muttering under his breath while you talk about him is still funny to me. It looks like he was hit with a cement mixer immediately. Got Up brushed himself long straightened out the shirt that he slept in Billie. Tell me look at this here. Dan So excited was little Nasdaq's addresses a cowboy. Expert smells horrible. Also oh by the way just took a whiff of it while you were describing right. Yeah living in that show. Yeah I slept about the way you don't look so great yourself over there Donald L.. Look pretty good pretty good dress up today I look I. Can you even see me or you just riffing. Because this is as good as I've ever lost you are a little so I can fix that. I'll I am sweating because of how enraged I was by my parking situation when I got here billy is your shirt tucked into explained. Explain to me. It is for the moment yes so as mine. Can you explain to me and the audience. Billy just not only that. The shirt smells bad but for the radio. Oh audience can you explain. I mean beyond being slept in. That shirt is also super faded. It's trying to figure that out because it is faded. But but I can't tell if it's one of those like new vintage shirts I put those now because there's like a stain here in your belly button different color than the rest of the ink on the shirts. This brown marked by your belly. Button definitely isn't part of this vintage style which leads me to believe but says. Es T two thousand four so they could cheesy fifteen or sixteen. Sixteen years old at this spot you're talking about staying was from the snickers bar last night before bad. Why on while? Yeah well Super Bowl Week is here. Why when the media has assembled all around you you've got? ESPN in front of you. You've got the letters the letters those it was proud letters all around you. Why would you wear a shirt from two thousand and four again? Dan Ran Outta close super super bowl week at the end. I know that Radio rose exciting and you keep it. It looks bad today. It looks really sad as you pointed when it out but you turning to the side only exposes your gut massive it has grown exponentially because they're great super always. That's what it's all bad. But it's the Friday if you ever gave thirty pounds overdone Super Bowl Gripe and put it on the poll please at Lebatardshow when it comes the Friday if you haven't gained thirty pounds have you done super bowl week. I sleep lost ten pounds. Everyone is so unhappy. What I don't understand it's been a week long? snorting of Football Party and all of us are deeply unhappy right now. I wish get into. I stepped on the scale yesterday. Who Oh I see somebody tar? I think when I was young I actually called Chris Berman at ESPN and left him a message edge. Dave winfield fly rules. To God's you WanNa do I wanNA named him Dave Winfield was playing then and I left him. I left him a message. You really did uh-huh because if I did that all I know well you would do that now. I did it when I was twelve. This is our show with his two guys on. ESPN radio so billy. Yesterday was agitating the guests with Gotha Seato as a host and a uh the host city with some of our Culture Trey Wingo is now addicted to the stuff. He has been wired all week. He's not gonNA come down out of the sky until The masters sisters. And you have a you have billy now with a lot of food in front of him. what is that. What you have in front of you is that for the WHO's going to be me there through there to eat that stuff? Is it going to be Derrick. Henry deontay wilder. They the two that are coming through there. I hope so because this was just kind of placed in front of us we have some. I'm croquet does over there which are like croquettes ham inside or some pasta legals here different variety of that stuff so I guess this is first to give together all Lorenzo just kind of popped up on stage. I just started putting here. I'm like is this a good idea who's going to eat this and also like did you run this by anyone so I guess we're giving the Taller guest today. Okay so Among the guests today today we've got as I said deontay wilder who could eat all of that I would imagine. Derrick Henry is going to be here and in-studio on our end and we're GONNA have rick flair and Aaron Donald and Kenny. Chesney STU GODS and billy on radio row catch things going to be joining us in the next segment for a half half hour. He's going to be out at radio row with STU and billy. This isn't a show that really we're sort of like country music agnostic around here but this is one of the biggest music stars in the country entry right now and he doesn't eat like that I don't think he's GonNa fit. Oh he will die if he's going to try one of everything or he's not GonNa go wait a minute. Did we actually shame to God's into changing shirts did is that a is that because you were so ashamed of wearing a two thousand four shirt that you clearly slept in that. You're we're now wearing a slightly more professional shirt. That's not also terribly professional. No the the ninety original shirt is still on underneath this year vicious vicious shirt. I slept in two nights ago. He is so disgusting is he has snorted all of Super Bowl Week. and Are you sand. Should you guys is like. Are you sad right now as because the big days on super bowl weaker Wednesday and Thursday. And we're about to head into the party. We're about to head into the really crazy Miami stuff like it's it hasn't actually started yet. It's coming now because most people don't have this week off so the people who have the weekend off are about to descend upon the Super Bowl but everyone is spent like everyone. I'm looking connect you guys. I mean billy looks. I think billy might look fresher than all of us like are you okay billy. Is Everything okay with you because poor. Chris has just been a haggard Messa All all week Roy has been hissing impatient and disasters. Mike has lost a lot of weight and feels a little bit cocaine Where why are you so fresh billy I just saw crisper? Sardine have never been better. Golic still here. Trey wingo is still talking at a table. Well right behind win for me. What straight from his show? It just started doing a radio tour that no one asked for me gets up talking. It's GonNa be wondering around the Convention Center. Two months after the All the microphones leap still giving the interviews like the the the FERNS and the plant. He was onset today. Dan like they were counting down. There were like ten nine eight for him to come back and goes ace to God. God carpet screaming at the top of his lungs. What is the matter with? Everyone who who is around here on Miami will do to you man. Mike how are you doing. You don't look good you really don't you don't look good. You look you look like you so you know those before the after pictures in those meth addict photos like no. That's what I mean like. Your teeth are going to start falling out at any minute My weekends just just beginning tonight. After this hell scape of of work this week I started D. Jiang Events Shacks Fun House and then like almost immediately immediately afterwards. I Have Bronx Beach. That's going to be good for the addictions. All of that is going to be. And then it's the the big game. So are you ready for any any of this. Because I don't feel like you've had any time actually practice this is for those of you don't know Silly as it is Mike a few years ago just took up. DJ -ing at least in part. Because of how you guys supported him around here when he was doing silly stuff and he's actually You know in south Florida. Everybody's everybody you meet is like am a pharmacist assistant. Dj like it's been that way for weirdly for about doing then you're running cycling as a DJ Ronnie Cycle Asian enormously successful enormously successful a DJ. Are you stressed at all about tonight. I'm nervous because like I'm on the same sages de Esto like he's going on to access he's probably not nervous about being on the same. Stay with you know. He's done this million times but this is a legitimate gig at checks funhouse. So I'm yeah I'm nervous about it. I haven't had that much time to prep. I mix everything live when I when I dj so we'll just like roll out. I have songs I feel. Good about them. We'll roll it out and we'll have a good time. Who's going to that from inner group? I Know Stu God is GonNa take this blackballed from from shacks really. It's unfortunate. I was planning on going because I'm not tired at all nature boy ric declares coming out and Charlotte player. They're part of my and My Dad I invited my dad. So he's just GonNa Creep me out the entire time uh-huh none of us are going though none of the because I plan on going nobody else GonNa Gronk. Yeah Chris Cody is that no one wanted to come in. I was a little heartbroken. Invite invite is doing last summer. Maybe we'd like to go. They get invited. Say That's line that we're going with you weren't invited. Yes that's it gets expensive man. I mean going to four hundred dollars worth exactly you could see a DJ for free. I mean we are doing a joke. A book exactly Soom Zoom and it boom boom little awkward right Chris. That felt a little awkward. It felt a little uncomfortable. Yeah imagine being in the room Lebatardshow Lebatardshow Stugatz up these talk show with the two guys on. ESPN RADIO ESPN radio. Radio is presented by Progressive Insurance. The Dan Le Batard show is brought to you by Shell. V Power Nitro plus premium gasoline. Kenny Chesney Joy. Just a second here are the Shell Pennzoil performance on for just a second Kenny. Are you marveling. As a man. With a rich and amend who takes care of his voice are you marveling marveling at just how cruddy he sounds like just how how awful the guy that is reading that it's it's an acquired taste. Imagine but it sounds good. Get a you said. You had a little Tequila last night. A little I've been having that all week it's been explains every day super bowl weekend. They'll petard show is brought to you by shelby powered nitro actor a post premium gasoline again. Kenny Chesney joys. Just a second. God's strong words that strong work betraying any chess knees trust right off the top by saying unwanted hanging on air. Something he told you privately. That's a good way to bundle the gas so he got something wrong. I didn't have a little. I had a lot the two or three more nights. Here's your sportscenter update the NBA. All Star Reserves Abbott announced Donovan Mitchell. ogle bear kyle lowry Bam outta bio Jimmy Butler. Or among those named Jared Jackson Junior Marco. Good Eric and Elfriede Payton were suspended one game without pay by the NBA their roles in an altercation between the teams. Marcus Morris was also five thirty five thousand dollars per se Jae Crowder crowder played with female tendencies and finally deport. Lay goes through ninety seven thousand pounds of Avocados every day. So this is Dan the shares way to win. This valentines is with roses from one. Eight hundred flowers dot com right. Now you can get twenty four multicolored roses for just twenty nine ninety nine or upgrade to twenty four red roses for only ten dollars more to order go to one eight hundred flowers dot com. Click the radio radio icon. Enter Code Dan for all the latest headlines and information tune into sports center on. ESPN radio all throughout the day. Put It on the poll. Guillermo please would you recognize Nice Christian McCaffrey by his face because he looks like he's fourteen years old. I'm looking at them here and I'm like why is booger McFarland. Talking to a fourteen year old on the set a ah I take downstairs Kenny. Chesney without with us you should check out his latest album songs for the saints. And if you want tour dates you go to Kenny. CHESNEY DOT COM Kenny. Any thank you for joining us. I'd like you to take take us back and sort of paint a picture for where your life was before the success when you were being paid and enchiladas well. I went to school at East Tennessee State University in Johnson City and played a Mexican restaurant free nights a week and I just played for tips tips. You know I was playing some songs that I had written in my apartment that nobody wanted to hear and then songs about my heroes and I would get paid. You know whatever tips I made and all all the enchiladas Arkady pretty good for a college student at the time and so what kind of tips are we talking about there when you say like on the on the best and the worst nights what are you bringing home the worst nights would be about twenty bucks. The best night's would be a couple of hundred. You know what happens next like one of the things that need to happen for Kenny. Chesney okay what happens next is I graduated East Tennessee state and then I moved to Nashville to be a songwriter and and it just went from there I was. I always knew that I wanted to do this. What I'm doing now but I knew it might take a while but I was? I was engulfed in creating eating. I was engulfing songwriting. And that's where all this started. And then I went on the road in Nineteen ninety-three and I'm still on it just kind i. Don't you know people ask me all the time for you know. Can you give me some advice on how to make it in the back of my brain. I'm going Never GonNa make it because you don't do it to make it. You do do it just because that's what you do you know. And so. That's that's the best way. I can explain good advice but ashes of data all the way right there has to be some always. There's no I'm not saying it. It was all good moments because there was a lot. Look plan the places that we play. Now we're we're very blessed and fortunate but but it hasn't always has been this way. We opened the tour this year at the Dallas Cowboys Football Stadium. We closed Foxborough the Patriots Stadium. And so but I promise you guys it hasn't always the we haven't always been been place in our life to go play these places Kenny. I read here. We all love food as you can tell from the split. You're on the table you have. What is your guilty pleasure? Because I think it's going to the delight most of the guys back in our studio. Well I I love up. I'm emotional eater right so but I love I love. I love Italian I love I love Italy. I love red wine. I love I get to eat a lot of pasta when I'm training and go on the road so when I'm off the road I eat a lot of carbohydrates trying to get to your girl cheeses. Why do love grilled cheese? I love it hundred percent one. Go ahead make the perfect grilled cheese sandwich for us. help us out a perfect world. She Sandwich I. I don't know it's it's gotta be Texas Toast always helps one hundred percent and you know a couple of different kinds of cheese and I always like to put some Jalapenos there at all Y.. Yeah Yeah I love everything spicy. Kenny Chesney with us again. His latest album songs for the saints is available. And if you want tour dates you go to Kenny. Chesney Dot Com explained to me. How much of your roots is tied up? How much of your roots are tied up in the idea that you give a lot of your money? Money Away with success to some of the people who wouldn't normally get money from the star of the shows like I don't want to embarrass you here but you give away a ton of money to the people behind the scene so like explain to me how and why that came to be well we start. I started this thing every year. No I've got I'm out there on the road with a lot of people that work really hard and those guys they get there before the ship early in the morning and late late at night and I started this thing called merge lottery and we take one stadium show a month and I take all the all the money that I make that night and what that means is the from the t shirts the hats whatever the money we make that night and I give it we. We put all the names of everybody that works for me a Sombrero and I we shake it up whole at a name out of the hat and give all the money we make for the march that night. WHOA so the most that can wait a minute? You're talking about a quarter. Wait a minute you're talking about like a quarter million dollars aren't you. That's yeah we played the seat. The seahawks football stadium one year. And yeah the merchant would have been close to that maybe a little over that and the next week we pulled out a name and they got it you know but what they started doing is not taking the money themselves. They ended up dividing it out throughout the whole crew in the tour you know so I would have grabbed all I want to cowboys stadium holding onto that one. They spend a lot of money in Dallas. I want to keep that. So is it true that you shower three times a day. You don't like bars of soap. Why do I showered go to get up when I get up I shower and then after I work out before I start my day shower again and then I have to shower before I go to bed and I get? I like to feel clean when I go to bed with the soap though. Yeah but no soap always had this weird thing about soap. I can't explain it. Yeah let me ask you a question because I love body wash our talking my language But body wash as well. You're rich so this is different. Body washes expensive right. Talk Therapy Stress Relief Body wash going on the upper half of my body because then I could smell it then. LOWER-HALF I used some other body to body washes at have in the shower work and it also depends obviously like you share a couple of times a day maybe late at night instead of the stress. One lillies the sleep tireless. And you stop please. You have asked the only only a couple of questions the entire week of a guest. And you've just ask Kenny Chesney. Hey Give me information about how you shower. Also I have a follow up question that I asked invasive. How tell me about your shoring habits but then a follow up question defense? You're there were here. We're sitting next to Kenny. and He's join join the conversation a little bitter. He'll back there wasn't really a question kept talking about showering habit yours and then here to tell you about it more for right into his Donlevatar Stugatz when you have her her go to DC Donlevatar show with two guys on ESPN radio. There are very few people at this network who are as informed armed about football as many times and yet something stupid just happened to her again. Mike just walked by Christian. McCaffrey and I don't blame her on this one. Because I I couldn't and believe it I can't believe that that dude is dominating the NFL when he could fit in my pocket. He's really not that large and he looks extremely young long. I double taste. I did know who he was. It wasn't a John Lynch scenario but he looks a lot like a guy who would just be at the clevelander grabbing a drink. He looks like a guy who would've cheated on me in high school academically. I'm speaking we never because I did it. We don't need to go audio of you confusing Wes Welker for John Lynch lost to the sands of time really. It's a shame from on. I represented it verbatim though to you guys I. I didn't censorship though we wanted. We wanted to put it on there. If you don't know what we're talking about me and asked of Wes Welker what it was like like to be John Lynch or something like that. Yes yes and then. He said great question for John Lynch take extremely seriously. It would never let myself be humiliated on this program. I'll send it maybe like a year when the it's worn off of it not a whole lot of the folks here who are partaking. Liberally of debauchery of South beach are making their way into the area. You decided to visit yesterday Liberty City. What is what? What is it that you were working on so today's episode of Espn Daily is about Liberty City for those? Who Don't know it's neighborhood in Miami really as a couple of neighborhoods around on there where a disproportionate amount of NFL players? Come from beginning with Chad Johnson. And you get into WHO. We interviewed T Y Hilton and Teddy Bridgewater Antonio Brown Levante. I mean the list goes on. It's a lot of wide receivers. I knew about it about four years ago. I did a story on T Y in Antonio Brown very different times back then for Antonio Because I found out that they grew up playing together. Ty's dad had actually coached him and they didn't see each other until they got back in the NFL. And I thought that was a pretty cool story so when we were coming back to Miami I said I'd like to go back there and see if it's changed or not so we met up with. Ty we met up with Teddy Bridgewater who obviously he comes back. A lot and really does a lot for the community and chatted with them just about why it produces so many great players. What's what is it about that neighborhood and what is it? I think it's a combination of things You know the way What they said was well? Don't have a lot of options here and but you know it's not the only poor neighborhood in in America so I think that does explain part of it but I just think the football culture so intense and so strong I remember the first time I went watching T. Y.. Hilton kids play. He's got kilos in Indianapolis but they come back and they play a watching four and five year olds play peewee running routes four and five year olds. Don't run routes and other parts of America they all gather gather in a clump and just chase one kid but these kids are really. They're developing. They're fast they get to play all year. I think that helps as well and it's really intense. I'm you know Dan you covering football there forever. You know what the scene is like on a Saturday people used to gamble on these while I was gonNA say big money. Changing Hands Billy. We Lost Kenny Chesney. And I think billy spoke poked. Him is what happened because he was asking. Showering questions uncomfortably. Bill you want explained to me you and her have an interesting dynamic. You want to explain to me what you just did showering inhabits who to botch no to botch the Kenny Chesney. Yeah Times to interview. Can you explain it. Well I mean. So here's the the Kenny. Chesney was here and we thought that he was going to be here for half an hour but then one of the maybe five people on Earth who was more important than our show. Jenny McCarthy's called all them over so he wants to do the Jenny. McCarthy show now of course at a time when the cultures and Ken John Nick Cannon Robin Thicke right so anyways I started asking because there was a fact on the fact sheet here saying that. He showers three times a day but he doesn't like bars of soap so he was talking about how it uses body wash and body. Wash me is something that I'm pretty passionate shit about. So I was asking him if like me. He uses different types of body wash on different parts of his body to kind of preserve the expensive body wash and not use on your knees or for your shins or your feet. Just kind of use it on your chest if it's aromatherapy because that's what you smell where I'm not gonna be smelling my shins. You know what I mean. Quick Quick Detour. Meaning who's GonNa really take AAC charge on Sunday. I'll go with the the niners. He's got the power running game. Uh I am so done battery. I am his point about the cheesier ear. Don't say that about Mooch. I mean He. He is He's wearing underneath there. He is wearing the shirt he slept in last night and everyone who has been anyone who has been anywhere near him. Today anyone this morning would totally melt a breathalyzer.

Dan Billy Lloyd Loyd ESPN Kenny Chesney Kenny Mike Lorenzo football Miami Dan What Henry deontay wilder Trey Wingo Dan Lebatardshow ADT NFL Chris Kenny Chesney Joy Harvey firestone Dave Winfield
Should I Pause My Debt Snowball While Changing Jobs? (Hour 3)

The Dave Ramsey Show

44:22 min | 1 year ago

Should I Pause My Debt Snowball While Changing Jobs? (Hour 3)

"Every day I take calls from scared people drowning in student loan debt. It's become a free crisis. We've got to stop encouraging students to sign up for decades of debt. It's robbing them of their future. Paychecks and opportunities you can and you should pay cash for college. You can do this and that's why I'm so excited to let you know about a new podcast from the Ramsey network called borrowed future it explores the student loan debt crisis some of the lies that we believed about college and what you can do to avoid student loans stay tuned after the show title to hear a sample or subscribe now to borrowed future wherever you listen to podcasts live from the headquarters of Ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studios. It's the Dave Ramsey show worked. DATA'S DON cash is king in paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I'm Dave Ramsey your her host. Thank you for joining US America. It's a free call triple eight eight two five five two two five triple eight eight two five five two to five you jump in. We'll talk about your life and your money. Bobby is whether it's in Kentucky. Hey Bobby welcome to the Dave Ramsey show. How are you dave badder than I deserve sir. How can I help well. I kinda got a little tricky situation. I was calling if you could help me out with so many Milanov enough got married about two years ago and we've her grandmother's in real estate and she found a good deal on a double wide trailer so her grandmother's like Oh this 'cause I was all set and said we're not getting married to have a place to live so her grandmother and grandfather other bought the place for us. I assume using cash and more in debt to them now for the purchase of that double wide and I I was wondering if using this but they snowball method if I need to put that further down my list and pay it off before I pay off my he cool and other bills with that the fantasy or what I mean to do with that if I need to just alone yeah. What do you want to pay them straight out or sure about fifteen thousand and what's your household income. Sir About Seventy thousand. That's good news okay. And how much much other debt do you have other than the trailer other than the trailer. We've got about probably about forty thousand that what's that on. We've you've got to vehicle payments. Asaf aside a credit card the medical bills what do you own your side by side aside now eleven thousand you own almost as much on your side by side as you the place you live in. Yeah Yeah Yeah. That's dumb yeah okay How old are you guys. I'm twenty five and she's twenty three okay well. Here's the thing toys like side by sides are not to be purchased except with cash and I wouldn't keep one if I owed eleven thousand dollars on it callers that I cannot payoff inside of two years major way too much owed on them too. I think you could probably make it if you got rid of side by side and then the other. A piece of the equation is trailers. Go down in value not up in value correct. The good news is you. Don't owe much on this thing. It's probably not worth a whole lot more then that is no we gave twenty thousand four tighter five thousand dollars last year on it okay so but I mean what's what's it worth if you were to sell his own piece of ground it's on the ground but it's on its own their property. Oh you don't you don't own the ground you just on the trailer. Yeah just only trailer okay all right okay. Here's the thing the way you make good financial decisions. You look way out into the future and you say okay. Here's from today what's GonNa make me wealthy and happy with my money situation a trailer a fifteen thousand thousand dollars twenty thousand are trailer on someone. Else's land does not fit in that category things that are. GonNa make me happy in ten years twenty years because it's going down in value and you don't know nothing yellow me. Sir So you don't have to do it. Immediately went went to panic here. I WANNA make are buying the family mad. They were trying to do something nice for Ya got that and I'm not trying to be a jerk about this but five years from the day three years from the day you don't WanNa home this trailer on somebody else's land. I mean this is like Kurt. This is like bad rent is all it is so so you know have a plan for selling it sometime within the next twenty four to thirty six months and go ahead and start talking to granny about the fact y'all are going to be moving even within two years to three years and you'll be selling trailer and move it off their property k. So would you suggest going in and renting and I'll sell that or if you have have to ask you if you haven't gotten yourself out of debt by then and you if you're out of that have an emergency fund and a good down payment go by little house somewhere up and down that that you can pay a good solid down payment on and put on a fifteen year fixed. That's at least going to go up in value and it'll be nicer than what you're living into. Oh yeah okay show Are you know there's no sin in renting for a short period of time versus buying something. The thing is going down in value sitting on someone else's property. Does that make sense to you yeah so three years from today. I don't want you to own that trailer. Taylor anymore and I don't want you to have any debt of any kind three years from today. Now what you need to do than sit down and go okay forty thousand bucks that means I gotta be paying one thousand two thousand dollars a month three thousand dollars a month on my debt and and a mainly to get rid of a side by side. That's toy. You can't afford on in fact. I just know you need to get rid of it. Okay it's a toy. I don't mind you having I got toys to do but you pay cash for toys because if you if you stay in depth the toys your whole life all us work worked for a bank you happen to show up at somebody else's place and they give you money then you handed over to the bank your whole life all the money comes in all the money goes out and you're just a slave leave and that's what happens when we toys and finance them so. I want you to get wealthy and get you some toys at you own. I got some nice boats and some other stuff I like toys. I like stuff with engines is in them. All I got a big raptor. I'm a redneck. I like a big truck. You know I'm right there. I get it I completely get it and but but you need to pay cash for those kinds of things young men because they'll eat your lunch by the time you're an old man like me and so pay cash for your toys. Get you get everything everything paid off in two to three years and beyond that trailer by then don't make this a long term play and then if you're going to sell it. You don't have to worry about paying off early. Just pay. I am the payments and then put it up for sale whenever you want sometime. Maybe about two years from two years from now while you're working on this other stuff. Let's get these cars paid off and pay cash for everything from this point forward so bob what I do is. I'm GonNa put you on hold. Madison's going to pick up and I'M GONNA pay for you and your new wife to go through our financial peace or give you the financial piece of membership. You'RE GONNA go to class and I'm GONNA teach you how to handle money stuff. I wish somebody taught me when I was your age and you can and do this but you're gonNA be weird. Your friends are GonNa think you've lost your mind but your friends are broke and if you're broke friends or making fun of your financial plans that means you're on track open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five you jump in. We'll talk about your life and your money. It is a free call. We're here for you guys but we do get up every morning and come down here because we get a great reward by helping. Dave thank you for listening. This is the Dave Ramsey show if you have student loan debt and you're part of the one point six trillion dollar student loan crisis that were currently in will listen up today. The rates on splash financial are the lowest they've been all year. I like splash because you don't have to consolidate your student loans. You can refinance your high high rate loans individually and still keep them as part of the debt snowball. This right drop means that it's a good idea to check your rate again to see how low your rate can can go check out splash financial dot com slash Ramsey. That's splash financial dot com slash Ramsey Yeah thank you for joining US America. This is the Dave Ramsey show open phones at triple lake eight to five five to five you jump in. We'll talk about your life and your money. Terry is with with us. Terry is in Indiana. I Terry how are you hi Dave. Thanks for taking my call sure what's up high so my husband and I have paused are that's Nobel for the past few months as we were waiting sports storm damage to our roof to get fixed which is getting fixed this week but the week I was going to pay off all that money money back onto our debt but then I had a discussion with my boss today and they're making some staffing changes so either have to switch to a night shift from day shift or have to find something else. Basically I didn't know if I should just continue to smoke so bowl until that all kind of settles down or go ahead and pay off the debt and continue on as I'm job searching. What do you do for a living. I'm occupational therapist. Okay Are you a metro area medium sized. Maybe able to find something to not have to take a night shift. I should be able to but it's a little bit. We have a college in town that has a little bit saturated with new grads and stuff coming out every year so it might just take a little bit of time. Maybe I would say two months tops yeah. So what are you going to quit or. You're going to work night shift or in the two months. I think I was going to work the night shift for the two months because obviously needs to be income coming in and then what's I found something to that okay so your income and your income is not changed just your I I mean. Would you quit after two months if you have not found something. I don't think that would be smart so I'm GonNa say no. I'm not trying to trap you. I'm just saying hey if you're making if you're making what do you make today about sixty five. Will you be making the same or more on the night shift. I would give shifted differentials. It'd be a little bit more okay and so your income didn't drop and as long as you don't quit and you take another the job making sixty five. You're not going to have an income drop as a result of this. If you anticipate an income drop for a logical reason yeah I would stop snowball and built up cash but I don't hear a reason. You're going to work the night shift. 'til you find a good job during the day right so if changes go freak out. I can imagine I don't blame you. I don't mind walking through it with you and thinking through with you but the so what if you know after three months of working the night shift and you haven't found something if you're getting really burn up and burn out and you say hey I'm just gotta gotta gotta bail so then you stop your debt snowball maybe and you polyp some cash because you're gonna bail and maybe sit for awhile in case but it but as long as you got the the stuff to stick with that night shift until the until you find a day shift you're not. GonNa take a loss of income. You won't need savings. Gosh that's so but but if you do reach a point where you're just the night shifts killing you I can imagine that I can't imagine me working nights. I I'm man I. I get tired just it's. It's a hard life. Lotta people do it but it's a hard life so you know and so after a while you may reach a burn out point you go okay okay. I might have to stop a debt snowball for two months and save up some money. 'cause I gotta bail on this but but for today I think you're gonNA find a place and you're just going to move. I'm from night shift to a new job. Yeah hopefully that's the plan. Go get them Kiddo. Thanks for the call. James is whether it's a Missouri James James. How're you May Day. Thank you so much for taking my call sure. How can I help okay. I'm retired teen years listening to you all all the time and have five children who are all pour money managers. I am debt free except for the financial help too much children. The most recent was an equity loan to my house on my house to help my youngest son Davis Business. He has not paid back so now I had any mortgage on my house on the House ninety thousand. Oh good Lord giving money. Do you have any money. Do I only am I'm financially stable. How much money do you have. Oh I got a couple of hundred thousand in Irene's arrange and got a pension in social security. Okay so you don't quite see you have enough to pay it off but it would leave you without a without much money your mortgage yeah. Oh yeah but but in my IRA that would be really not much yeah money yeah no but also have to pay taxes on ninety thousand yeah true okay my question though Dave should I changed my world. Proportionately five children will receive since one has not paid his debt in the other floor will have to be we'll have his debt to pay off offer now. Yes I should proportion. You should reduce his portion of the inheritance by the death that he goes the other kids should not have to pay that they all. They all have received your financial health. He's gotten the most in nineteen years well. I mean. It's up to you how far back you want to go but for today we know ninety thousand bucks is come out of your estate. We know that and you know it's it's left the others poorer when you pass away. Are you Katie Okay Okay Yeah. I'm in good health but I don't know how long beer well. We don't know I I think aloud every time I wake up you man when whenever I hear you yeah yeah I think you know. How long has it been since you helped an another kid European. They are paying back us. Did you give some you loan them money and then they paid it back. That's how you help them right right so it didn't it didn't actually about a year go. My daughter was Fana- high interest loan in I gave her the money to pay off along or she wouldn't answer interesting. Teach pay me back okay so after it's paid laid-back since everybody's paid you back. You're not poorer as a result of having helped anybody except this one kid so far and he'll just irresponsible. I think well I think he I don't think it's fair for him to get his his portion of the estate should be reduced -duced by the ninety thousand dollars and if he wasn't due to receive ninety thousand then he won't get anything okay. Can I ask you a question. Yes Sir I would inform the all of them what I'm doing so they're not going to be surprised at the end. Just tell them you just get them. All on a phone call and you just get a conference call set up. Put everybody on the call. Do they all live in the area. You're always ensure mile radius okay well. If you see them all at Christmas she could go over all of it or you could just get them all on a phone call and say hey listen I talked to my financial coach and he suggested that that you know kidding number one's inheritance be reduced by the debt until he is paid it off and you can have you can have your attorney word the wheel that way. It won't be a problem at all so hey thanks for the call open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five you you jump in. We'll talk about your life and your money. It's a free call so I love what he's doing. is very very smart for you to to have a will it's very very smart for the people in your family or otherwise that are the heirs to the to the will the beneficiaries of the will bill to know where they stand and not to find out upon your death that is a very functional good way to handle family life life to sit down and say this is what you're going to get this what you're GonNa get in this what you're GonNa get and it's my money and I get to decide that so that's how this works and I I just WanNa. Let everybody know upfront because you can't be mad at each other. When I'm gone you didn't do this is what I decided and we do that. Every year we go over my will and exactly where everything's going. Join wjr going and what we're doing and if there's any changes there by knows and everybody can just deal with it while I'm here it. This is the Dave Ramsey show. Eight hours can change your life. Get the best sleep you've ever had on a quality affordable mattress from my friends at Tuft and needle starting as low as three are- ninety nine and for the warmer weather nothing beats tuft and needle meant mattress complete with cooling jail and graphite to keep the air circulating eating and your sleep from becoming a hot mess try TUFT and needle mattress for one hundred nights risk free at T. DOT COM and remember it ships for free three. That's T- in Dot Com Julie is with us in Tennessee Hi Julie. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey. Show Hi Dave okay so I have a couple of questions I secured by and I went to East Tennessee State University instead of Vanderbilt for the cost for uh-huh Nurse Practitioner degree and I am currently in twenty thousand dollars in debt from this current semester for my nurse practitioner and my Undergrad Undergrad so I have forty thousand dollars saved up. I don't know if I should just write that. Check now for that twenty three thousand dollars. Only seventeen thousand thousand dollars left in my savings account or why he would suggest. I think it's kind of scary to rape out shock. When I am forty thousand okay are are you out of school. I'm currently getting my nurse practitioner so I have a year left and I work full time as a nurse here on our end. How are you paying for that my nurse practitioner. I've been just trying to I don alone for this semester and that is included in the twenty three thousand dollars. Okay you had forty thousand dollars in the bank and you took out a loan. Yes I get really scared to pay a little 'cause. I've just been saved enough and just go to school. If you weren't willing to pay for it okay yeah. That's true well. I I just a big check at the end but okay. I'm asking that Man Okay I. If how are you going to pay to finish school either. I either take out loans or work which I have been doing and pay as I go. So how much do you make working well. Nashville nursing prices are a little slim so it's like forty thousand and then I have the option I could also move when my lease is up and moved to a different red state where I make twice as much too so I'm sure the Where are you studying nurse Practitioner East Tennessee honesty state so it's a distance learning thing yeah it's online so that's why I'm able to work as well as go online school and you can finish your nurse practitioner online okay and what would it cost to finish the total for Eastern. The State is like thirty five thousand does it has what it takes you to finish yeah like total with all. The whole degree is about up thirty five finished half of it no. I'm I have. I'm in my first semester and I have three more semesters to go. Okay so you need thirty thousand dollars to finish yeah. I need about thirty thousand. I take out loans or has go Jim. You Call Dave Ramsey. They don't say take out loans anymore. Go into hives have shoes okay. We're not GONNA take. We're not gonNA take anymore. Loans you're either. I'm not gonNA finish or you're not gonNA. Take out loans. I don't care which but we're not. GonNa take out lunch now. WE'RE GONNA pay cash for it now. How are we going to pay for it. If we use this forty thousand to finish then you're going to clean up the twenty three later after you finish an go I I think we've got this some of this forty thousand dollars earmarked for you to finish school and you'll use some of your income to do that but but you live in pretty tight if you're able to finish the war over what period of time is left how much how much longer will it take you to finish. I have a year last one year. You need basically twenty five thousand dollars right yeah and you're gonNA pull that off. You'RE GONNA pull that out of forty. No No. You're not that's not going to work. That's what I didn't know. If I did forty thousand dollars a forty thousand dollars income you don't have enough income to eat and pay for this without it using this savings even if I work as I go and make around three thousand a month forty thousand dollars in one year and you need twenty five thousand dollars during the same year you if you make forty and you spend twenty five on your degree out of your income that only fifteen minus taxes you don't have enough to exist yeah and seven fifty for rent. It's very tight which is ten thousand dollars a year. Okay yeah okay so here. You know we started adding up your budget. You probably need twenty five thirty thousand dollars a year. Leow and so you may have five or ten thousand dollars out of your income to throw it this but you need twenty five. You're going to use some of your savings to finish school Keto. No more loans yeah. Stop It. Stop it told you I don't write a check then not at all. They're not write a check for the existing. Malone's let them sit there until you graduate use your you have forty thousand dollars in savings. Did I understand you're right. Yes okay. We've one thousand I would use some of that money to finish school cash for the rest school. Make no more loans then when you graduate you should have fifteen thousand dollars left in your account at twenty three thousand dollar loan and a better job making as a nurse practitioner more than forty yeah exactly and so we can use that fifteen thousand towards the twenty three thousand and we can clean up the debt and begin to save again okay okay that sounds good after graduation no more borrowing rate and say no more borrowing and no more barring. I won't I won't if Louis Thank you. Julie Appreciates Colin. Debbie is with Davies in Arizona Hi Debbie. How are you hi. Thank you so much for taking my call. Dave and I want to say thanks to you. I have been debt free for many years except for the mortgage mortgage on my home my question today has to do with a landlord situation my brother was renting a Condo He lived there for six years. The landlord never went in to check things. My brother didn't want her to come in so she just didn't I didn't want her to her property. That's right and so my point to her was no no. Why didn't your brother want his landlord. Gordon his house. What was he doing. He was because he was messy because he because he had clutter he didn't. He would tell her he would fix it themselves or lease. Yes written lease. I don't I don't have the lease. The reason I'm calling is my brother had had cancer for the past three years passed away three weeks ago and so it jeff with less to me. I'm sorry you're not you're not liable for anything. Only his State is that he owned anything NO I. I'm not saying that I'm liable. I'm so sorry my concern was just that I did I did get everything out and I left it spotless and I mean they would be it because I mean even after after he lived there for six years and she never went in it was spotless except for just normal where wow very nice of. Oh Oh that's it no nothing for me but but my question is just can she you can she keep deposit because that's what she's insinuating that she's going to do based on any little thing sh dripping water in the bathtub thousand okay and that's all he had to his name really no no. He had plenty of money but it'll but it's just all going to his bond. okay okay well rain. The point is he's liable for any damage done to the property and if she can show there's no damage if she can in show. There's a thousand dollars worth of reason to hold his deposit. That's a negotiation with landlord. Are you the executor of the estate. I'm only a representative. Okay didn't have an effect and you can just negotiate whether there's not a I'm not a lawyer but if she can show that there's damage she'd probably GonNa be able to keep that deposit. It's probably not going to be worth fighting about it to be honest. SAFT bird our scripture that second Timothy Timothy Two fifteen your best present yourself to God as one approved a worker who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth. Bill Murray said people are just like music some speak the truth and others are just noise. Well a lot of parents think they half that their kids have to go to college to be successful and they think the only way they can go go to college is to get a student loan debt. Free Degree is Anthony O'Neill's brand new book. It comes out one week from now Monday Monday October. The seventh and it's only nineteen ninety nine. If you purchase the book ahead of time it is the step by step guide to getting your kid through college without student loans. It's GonNa Change everything the way people look look at these situations. This whole idea that college is one hundred percent necessary number one. We don't agree with. I do love education occasion and I do want folks to get an education but I don't want you to get an education and just go into debt every time you BURP. It's just crazy. All this has gotten out of hand. You guys are just like turn on water faucet. You don't think anything about it. You don't you just only it's like get in the car starting the car. Are you just GonNa. I'M GONNA go fifty thousand dollars in debt just like that. It's just like that and then you call me where you've been fighting with this monster for a decade after that so don't allow all your kids to do this stuff pleased online your kids to do the stuff debt free degree by Anthony Oneal nineteen ninety nine you can get forty dollars worth of add ons for for free which includes two different talks by anthony one of them including doctor. Meg meeker and includes the e book. All of that will come to you you if you pre purchase the book before Monday order the book at Daveramsey Dot Com Anthony Neil dot com or the Ramsey concierge ears team at triple eight twenty two peace triple eight two two seven three two two three jump in we'll talk. Kayla is whether it's in California Hi Caleb how're you. How do you Dave. I'm doing great and I appreciate your time my pleasure. How can I help well. Basically I've got some student loan that and I've been working to pay down the rest of my debt. I'm on track to get everything except for the student loan down by May so this fifteen thousand on the remainder forty thousand infuse alone got the reason I'm calling because my wife and I were about to celebrate our one year wedding aniversary and we've been hey appreciate it. We've been in a house that we dislike a little one bedroom one bath for she's been here for about five years. I've I've been here for the last three. we want to buy a home. WanNa go somewhere else. Buy Something Better I'm looking at it and I believe as I could get us into one within you know about a year and a half. If I don't pay down the student loans I so my question is this should is it something that is reasonable to do to get into a home loan. No you're GONNA make a mess and you're onto by home with an extra bedroom for Sallie Mae no take your time slowed down just a little bit. I mean you're newlywed. You've got house fever and just take a cold shower. That'll help with the house fever and you know it's normal what you're what you're experiencing is normal thing. All your friends are buying houses. 'cause all your friends are stupid and in in debt and our broke and you if you're not careful. You're going to keep up with them and so don't do this man slow down just a little bit. What's your household income between the two of us about a hundred and ten white ago. How old are you guys. we're pretty old man. I'm thirty thirty eight thirty ancient. I don't know how you're getting around. Okay nearly Lance. I guess okay so I'm kidding with you but the all all right so you need it. Did I count you. Did you say fifty five thousand clears. Your student loans no actually forty clear. The student father just said fifteen was portion forty supporting okay so forty clears them right okay so one hundred ten. Can we not do that in one year if you're on beans and rice pretty close maybe fourteen bucks. Maybe fourteen much three thousand bucks a month. You can do it. I mean you're living on nothing. Though you don't have a car payment right I do about five mindsets. Sorry I thought you said I thought you said you you were only had forty thousand dollars per student loan debt. I misunderstood. How much do you own your stupid car. Now on the car once I got sixty three hundred on the car and then credit cards adding to fifteen thousand yes okay that's where I heard the fifteen earlier okay sixty one thousand dollars in debt clear. Is that what I'm hearing six hundred forty. I've done some weird math for you. The fifteen in his car plus the credit cards so fifty-five cleared you out completely. Yes Sir fifty percent of your household income. Oh okay so. It sounds like it's GonNa take eighteen months to clear that to me. If you're living on beans and rice and then you build your emergency z. Fund in the next six months and then you build your down payment after that and so you are about two years before your two years and some change maybe two and a half years for you're looking for a house and that's going to be the wise way to do this. If you buy a house with all this debt hanging around your neck. You'RE GONNA live to regret it because you're going to slow down everything you're GONNA struggle. This is not gonNA work. and normal people do it but normal people are broke so please do the stuff in the right order. You've got to clean this mess up. It's GONNA take eighteen months to do it and Dan. You know fifty five thousand eighteen months that means you have no life during that eighteen months none whatsoever. You're not gonNA see inside of a restaurant unless you're working. There and you're not going on vacation. We're trying to get out of debt so we can build an emergency fund so we can build a down payment so we can buy a house on a fifteen year fixed or the payments no more than a fourth of our take home on page. Eric is with us in Wyoming Hi Eric. How're you? Hey Dave thank you for all right. Thank you sir czar. How can I help well. my youngest son you sooner preschool and wife and small businesses. I'm having trouble hearing you. I speak directly into your phone. Sir sure how that that's much better. Thank you okay so not get son in school cool and my wife and I run a small business is really taking off over the last four or five years being really well for our for our house and the and the sun is he's on our payroll right now. It makes them a little bit few hours per week and I'm thinking about giving that boy whose and taking that money and putting it away for his save nothing for up to this point howled is in. I was just wondering if you think that is a good idea. How old is he something better so you can do. How old is he or he's just turned eighteen last week. Okay why don't you sit down with him and map out where he wants to go to school what it's going to cost and how with him working hard and you being willing to help him with it. You can map towards getting there and just say all right. Let's let's pick out of school. What is it you'RE GONNA study. What's IT GONNA cost you to do that and then I'm going to help you with your working your butt off. I'm going to help you get getaway to make this happen and I'm going to guide you through the process. it'll be a good exercise for a father son team to work on. It'll be a great thing for him to have input into the vision he'd be willing to work more probably if he was participating emotionally in this goal rather than you just randomly setting money off to the aside hoping it all fits up with his plan. I think you'll come out with a better result of everybody is aligned on these goals Amen. Thanks for the call appreciate Ed joining us that puts this hour of the Dave Ramsey show in the books thanks to Madison on the phone serving as associate producer today James Childs our producer. I am Dave Ramsey your host. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace Christ Jesus. This is James childs childs producer of the Dave Ramsey show. Did you know you can now listen to the Dave Ramsey show on Pandora and spotify for all the ways to watch and listen check out our show Kane at Daveramsey dot com slash. Oh Hey it's james producer of the Dave Ramsey show. This episode is over the check. The episode notes for links to products and services. You've heard about during this episode. Thanks for listening. The new podcast from the Ramsey network called borrowed future explores. The student loan crisis issue and is now available wherever you listen to podcasts. Here's a sample of what this show is all about or times that I was just. I was giving up because I WANNA pay my student loans. There was early pretty place called sunset set clips in San Diego and I loved the beach and the ocean so I would drive out there and economist but I just wanted to drive off the cliff can be done with because I was worth more than forty three million in borrowers have about one and a half trillion dollars in federal student loan debt. We don't understand the true impact that this is having going into debt has life altering consequences every single year another million student loan borrowers default on that debt and absolutely zero a plan to tackle this at the federal level from Ramsey network comes borrowed future a new podcast exploring the student loan debt crisis in America behind all the numbers ars and frightening stats are real people dealing with the consequences of their student loans. Everyday related stopped me from being able to get a house. It stopped us from starting our family in this poverty-stricken home. Eight percent doesn't really seem like a lot but I guess it's a lot when you're looking at twelve thousand dollars and then over the course of ears. I just woke up one day and thirty nine thousand dollars. You just don't know what to do. You're paralyzed and you get depressed. I didn't sleep growing the first year because I was always worried something awful along with those stories. You're also going to hear from experts who want to see change in the student loan industry from billionaires like Mark Cuban two thought leaders like Seth Godin and financial experts like Dave Ramsey. There is a lot of blame to go around here because we built a system and the system evolved evolve because every piece in the system did what it was supposed to do. It's so easy for students to borrow money for tuition housing room and board etcetera that add colleges no they can keep on raising prices. They're walking around with this four hundred pound ball over their head and they're trying to balance that rap and live a life. It becomes so normal that it's just the way it is and there's no shock factor of what student loan debt does guiding us through this is author of the the Book Debt Free Degree Anthony Oneal. He's devoted his life to helping young people make better decisions when it comes to their life and their money you don't want to spend four years working your behind off to spend the next forty years paying for those four years you going to graduate college. You'RE GONNA walk into your future. You're not a part of the staff but just starting new staff. Listen new stat. I'm not in this debt destiny stat. I'm George Campbell and over the next several episodes. We're GONNA find out how we got here. The impact student loans are having on people like you and offer solution that could change the economy and generations to come subscribe wherever you listen listen to podcasts in tune in on September thirtieth for episode one of borrowed future episode. One of Eight is out now. Subscribe to borrowed future wherever you listen to podcasts.

Dave Ramsey Dave Ramsey network America US dave badder Ramsey solutions BMW WanNa Anthony Oneal Madison Bobby Asaf Milanov Kurt Ramsey network Terry James Childs
Kicking the habit

The Uncertain Hour

50:18 min | 1 year ago

Kicking the habit

"You've heard us say that the uncertain our is produced by marketplace. But something you might not have heard is that we are a nonprofit news organization. Some of our funding comes directly from listeners like you who believed that the stories we tell and how we tell them are important and want to make it possible for us to do. More of them to support our work contribute today at uncertain our dot com. Hey, if this is your first time listening to the show, you might want to go back and listen to the two episodes before this one it'll make more sense that way, here's producer Caitlyn ash. It's Sunday morning at freedom of worship church. People are streaming in finding seats wooden pews. It's a nondenominational Christian church with Pentecostal and Baptist influences built on top of a mountain in wise county in the mountains of Virginia. The service is in a modern sparsely decorated room with a high ceiling and plush carpet, the pulpit looks like a stage of screens displaying verses from the bible. Pastor rob Foltz welcomes the crowd. In addition to being a pastor Foltz also owns a bounce house business. He's a school bus driver. And he's a math teacher. So a sermon is peppered with math references. Eighty six thousand miles per second. God is late. He says therefore God is the fastest thing in the universe. You can get to you in an instant. There's a lot of music throughout the service at the end. There's a song. People leave the pews and come forward. Singing women kick off their heels. Some asked pastor Foltz for a blessing, and if you life face-down prostrate on the carpet, just sobbing. Others sort of gather around lay their hands on the sobbing person as if to comfort. Outside after church. I asked pastor Foltz about that moment during the service, people were laying hands on each other praying for each other encouraging each other because we're Tobar one another's burdens. We are to lift each other up and the biggest burden the church is dealt. With in recent years, substance abuse problems that have entrenched themselves into the community. So about ten years ago after presiding over funerals for people who overdosed and learning about the size of the problem. Pastor Foltz started a Christ centered twelve step program. One of our missions is to give people hope to let them know that they don't have to die this way. There is a way out. Welcome back to the uncertain. Our where the things we fight the most about are the things we know the least about I'm Chrissie Clark senior correspondent for marketplace's wealth in poverty desk this season. We're talking about drugs drug epidemic. And specifically how they end this episode treatment for years wise county Virginia has mainly focused on interrupting the supply side of drugs by punishing users and dealers through law enforcement courts jail. Whites county's approach has mirrored our national approach following practices and policies that ramped up thirty years ago after a very different drug epidemic, the crackup identified. But as we've told you during the war on crack, crack prices fell the exact opposite of what drug enforcement was going for and since the eighties. That's true for other drugs to cocaine meth and heroin. They've all gotten less expensive. And they're all. Readily available today. Meanwhile, what heavy law enforcement has succeeded in doing is locking up a lot of people for drug and drug related crimes across the country. And in wise county where the local jail population has ballooned, and it's costing taxpayers a fortune. There's widespread agreement something has to change. But what do you do? Instead for this last episode in our series. We return to wise county we'll hear from people in wise who are struggling with that question. How do you get people to stop using drugs, or at least stop them from overdosing and dying producer Kayla? Nash takes it from here. In the mountains of rural Virginia, there's not a lot of affordable high quality treatment within a reasonable drive. What there are a lot of churches that twelve step program that pastor Foltz started. It's a local chapter of celebrate recovery. Maybe you've heard about it. There are meetings and churches across the country. It was the first to pop up in the region since then several others have started like alcoholics anonymous and narcotics. Anonymous, celebrate recovery follows the twelve step model in AA and NA the twelve steps reference a higher power in a spiritual. But nondenominational kind of way and celebrate recovery the twelve steps are all about Jesus and the bible it's faith based, but it's open to anyone who wants to quit using drugs. No matter how long they been addicted. No matter how many times they've tried to break the habit. No matter how many programs they've joined no matter. How many failures they experienced no matter how much they given up. Or their families given up on that ever happening. It can still happen. I visited celebrate recovery. One Monday night, there were about a dozen people there, plus a handful of volunteers who had cooked a free meal, we spaghetti rose salad. Apple salad and cake. There was a sermon led by pastor Foltz. And then men and women broke into separate groups. I wasn't allowed to record. But people are talking about the weeks triumphs. And failures losing kids to foster care navigating the court system a few participants said celebrate recovery meetings or the highlight of their week like thirty seven year old Christie rose. I enjoy celebrate recovery. I do I enjoy listening to other people in their stories and things like that. And I'm hoping one day. I could actually stand up and tell the story for seven years Kristie smoked synthetic marijuana sometimes called k two or spice not an opioid, but another drug that's commonly abused in wise. I felt like it took over my mom like I couldn't live without kinda thing. I'm not a. Iraqi, I just got addicted city synthetic marijuana's actually a family of chemicals that often comes sprayed on a plant to see more like marijuana like pot. It activates the canal annoyed receptor in the brain. But it's a very different drug. It can be way more potent. It's apparently addictive, and it comes with a slew of side effects like paranoia, cata, Tonia, nausea, whose nations and seizures. It's been linked to kidney failure and to multiple deaths in the seven years that Christie was on it. She says her life fell apart. I lost. My Jong kids was mad at me. I felt like my family leaked at BB for. I was myself. I would. I don't I I was very if Christie found freedom of worship church when she was sentenced to community service and assigned to do cleaning work at the soup kitchen here she'd gotten caught the way a lot of people do she sold drugs to someone who turned out to be a police informant. Our worked with the girl, and I didn't think nothing about it because I'm far from being a drug dealer, but I just got it for and she was working for the law Christie pleaded guilty to three felony charges of selling a schedule one or two drug in lieu of jail time. She was sentenced to seventeen hundred hours of community service while she was working here pastor Foltz invited her to celebrate recovery. When we talked Christie had been going to celebrate recovery meetings for several months, it was the only counseling she was getting in Christie said it helped her take steps to improve her life. So what the verses that we talk about. There's like a bible scripture for it. And I think that that's really good because ally created the bible so like. Sometimes our doodle down what he said or what they're talking about. They'll go home of read over it and things like that. And I kinda try to keep a lot of it with me. This group doesn't keep data on participants. It's all anonymous, but the little research that's out. There suggests faith-based programs can be effective. It's really an extraordinary phenomenon. Philippe guac is a professor of medical anthropology at UCLA and he directs the center for social medicine in the psychiatry department. It's mostly event Jellicoe churches that basically seek out and embrace addicts or people with, you know, intense substance use disorders who the rest of society has abandoned, and they tell them be saved come to the Lord, and you will be instantly saved as part of his research Philippe has spent a lot of time with people addicted to crack and heroin. He says faith-based treatment is effective for some people because it meets a need that drugs once filled a sense of meaning and purpose a community when they were addicted perversely they found meaning. In the addiction socially when as soon as you addicted. You're all of a sudden surrounded by tons of acquaintances who are often stealing from you and cheating you, but they're all they all love the same thing, you love to get high, and you're all trying to make money, and you're all creating temporary alliances sharing money sharing drugs and running from the police together. So what treatment has to do is replace that? And that's why faith based treatments are so phenomenal. Because think about it is soon as you are saved in an evangelist church everyone in that room, everyone in that church in that chapel is suddenly there to support you also faith-based treatment is free for Guas. Is it attracts a broader less wealthy? More diverse group of people who may be can't afford expensive treatment programs or counseling, but research suggests that for opiate addiction counseling alone is only so effective. Whether it's a group like celebrate recovery or a more traditional twelve step. Program or even one on one counseling. What works best is to combine counseling with medications that ease withdrawal and mute. The cravings for drugs medications like methadone and the newer and safer drugs. Like buprenorphine also known as suboxone subtexts. Studies have found medication assisted treatment as it's called can reduce heroin use and overdose deaths. But in wise, those drugs have a bad reputation because even though they can help people get off of opioids. They're also widely sold on the black market sometimes people who are addicted to opioids used suboxone as a bridge to stave off dope sickness when they run out of their preferred pain medication, and that's actually how I ended up finding out about walks in subjects. This is Joey Ballard in one of the conversations. He and I had back when he was sober for years. He was addicted to an opioid called Lord tab because when I would run low on my Lord. I could go spend forty dollars and get four Laura tabs, which is barely going to last me that day. Where I could spend forty dollars. Go buy w Tech's, and it could last me five or six days. So it made sense at first Joey bought subtexts and suboxone on the black market. But then he started going to a cash clinic to get a prescription cash clinics. Also have a bad reputation, in wise doctors there don't take insurance. They take cash a lot of cash it's so expensive to me drives, you know, the drug industry in the sense of like street drug industry, because you have the hustle that money back Joey was spending more than four hundred dollars a month to see the doctor, and he says he was prescribed much more suboxone than he actually needed creating an incentive to sell the remainder of that prescription on the street. Joey says a lot of people do it couldn't tell you where to go by pain pill right now. But could tell you where could go bust box digs. So it's literally just taken over. I mean, it's you've absol-. Lutely replaced one drug with or several drugs with two different drugs. A lot of drug cases wise county prosecutes involve illegal suboxone, dealing so people in law enforcement tend to have a negative view of suboxone. And so to the courts in wise county's drug court, for example, participants are not allowed to use it and the police officers and judges who are leery about suboxone are right that it can be misused and abused. The drug doesn't just stave off dope. Sickness subdue for Norfolk is a half. Heck because that's what affects your brain receptor. Just like a pain medicine those. At first some people get a euphoric feeling it's a weaker high than drugs like heroin, but it can last longer the first few times Joe would take it. Not need anything for the next two days. But then something else started to happen after taking it for a couple of weeks. Joey developed a tolerance to suboxone and he didn't feel high anymore. You just felt normal which is the point of the drug. That's how it's supposed to work. You're able to function you're able to go out. Be a normal function person society. I'm for the first time in a long time. Joey felt some hope from the Tomba I did sevi- techs and realize that okay? There might be a way out of this. I've wanted to get clean. He took it for a while. Then slowly started to taper. I was like, well, I wanna see just what I can get by with like what kind of take to avoid being sick and be able to function and not overdo it he cut his consumption to just a quarter of a pill a day. And then I started realizing, okay, we'll quarter a day. All right. Well, let's do a quarter every two days. I got to the point where I could do a quarter once a week. And then I was like, okay. If I'm doing just a quarter one time a week. I could just quit. That's what. For all the controversy about even or phen-. It does help people get off of drugs, but doctors, and nurses who wanna use it here have to walk the fine line figure out how to use it without just putting more drugs out onto the street. Are you ready for your health appointment, the health wagon is a free faith-based medical clinic that serves low income patients? There's a mobile clinic and building visited one day in the waiting room. There's a bible on the coffee table and a sign above perception that says share faith offer prayer, gather hope Paul Hill Collins, and Theresa Tyson are nurse practitioners who run the clinic there glamorous the perfect hair the pink lipstick the jewelry Theresa in a faux. First sweater Paula in a leopard print jacket. They're also best friends from way back we've been best. For instance, we were fourteen we actually laugh and say we gave new meaning to the term bef we have graduated four times. Together, we have air doctorate from university of Alabama or masters from the university of Kentucky and our bachelor's degree from east Tennessee State university in Johnson city, Tennessee, and you'll probably say we'll finish each other's sentences. So we've been we're like Siamese twins. My son actually said that Teresa our like Siamese twins that if there was a surgical correction for us, we would refuse to be separated, and we would. The health wagon was founded by a Catholic nun in nineteen eighty. She would drive around the mountains in Volkswagen beetle, delivering care these days Paula, and Theresa have upgraded to an RV which they've turned into a mobile clinic. They drive it to remote areas to treat common ailments, like diabetes and hypertension. They also have a brick and mortar clinic in wise, Paula and Theresa's see a lot of patients with chronic health conditions. I was shocked to learn that people in south West Virginia live in average of at least ten years less than people in the northern part of the state some of the problems that pollen Theresa's he again, and again, anxiety and depression, childhood trauma and addiction often were saying some of the patients that are may be vision. Opioids they will present maybe to us with the Sega Ladyson infection in the skin or we will do free lab work own them. And they'll they'll present maybe with hepatitis and so forth like that. We see the ones that come in looking like skeletons, and they've had the may and you can see the skin or we. See their children that are now being raised by great grandparents, not just grandparents, but great grandparents, and we see that. And we see the tremendous burden that it's putting on the society here. The first time I met Paul and Teresa about a year ago in the spring of two thousand eighteen they were struggling to open an addiction clinic, unlike anything that yet existed in wise county and addiction clinic that would use injectable buprenorphine. That's the drug that Joey was taking to help him quit using other opioids only he was taking it in pill or film strip form. In Paula Therese's clinic patients would come in get injected in a controlled setting and leave making it pretty much impossible to resell the drug on the street, and it would be entirely free. Pretty amazing considering a single even orpheum shot costs around three thousand dollars in the area across the country. Most people who are addicted to opioids do not get any treatment. At all. According to a new report from the national academies of sciences, engineering and meta. Listen medications like beep, nor phen- are quote, severely underused, especially in rural areas to make accessible Paul and Teresa considered offering services out of the mobile clinic. They thought they had anticipated. Every concern Hala was not expecting the response. She got we have had towns that do not want us to come into their area. She called one small town to ask for permission to park the mobile clinic there, and it was really shocking. I guess that was naive on my part that when we said, oh, yeah, we won't apart. Here. We have you know, the chief of police in the town manager saying, oh, no. We don't want you here get resistance to medication assisted treatment centers. Because people think you're feeding it and that goes back to the underlying culture of us being ostlund here in the mountains, and how much they almost put a wall around us where they don't want. Any new ideas is like there's resistance to doing anything about it because they they are so resistant about or in denial that I don't want this in my town. Paul Theresa struggled with funding to. But they insisted they would not give up. We can't stand by. And there's a viable in the verse, you know, don't stand by oddly as you want your brother bleeding. I mean, there's a that. Where's that prompt? That's under proverbs that's out of this out the New Testament. But also what we look at too is. I do think it's a plague. And when you look at revelations, everything that's coming. I mean, this is killing our young people. So we have always taken care of their medical needs. We're wanting to go ahead and take care of their mental health needs some of these substance abuse issues because as Theresa said, we realise people do not choose to be this way. No, one at six seven years old says I want to grow up and get addicted to drugs and may many months later their persistence is about to pay off this spring. They're finally opening a new brick and mortar addiction clinic they bought a new building and set up a new business entity. So they can Bill Medicaid instead of relying on grants. Even though it's not open yet word about the clinic got out when the sheriff's department posted it on Facebook. Oh, wile, and we were like take that off nail. Because people were calling so much but there's such an epidemic. You're putting it on Facebook goes lock overwhelmed. This in one day. I think it was up for two hours and we had received one hundred calls. That's what the need is all those calls from people who heard about the new addiction clinic and wanted in for themselves or for loved ones. The idea behind the clinic is to combine medicine with other supports like counseling. Peer groups, even on call ministers for spiritual support to take a more comprehensive approach than either medication or counseling alone for someone. Like Joey Ballard the medication with no other support didn't work out last episode. I caught up with him at the county courthouse after he relapsed last time, I talked to you you're doing really well. And unfortunately at didn't last can ask what happened just. Near drug addict. Once your drug always it's just hard to. Hardy away from India's. He was down on himself and dismissive of the treatment options. In wise joke joke, Joey might say the treatment failed at least in the long term. But his story is so common. Even with the best treatment available people get off drugs, and then they fall back into using. So some people in wise are starting to talk about how to help the people who can't quit or who won't quit at least not right away. Because as it turns out that's most people who struggle with addiction. That's after the break. If you wanna get smarter about technology, the economy pop culture when you're done with this podcast. I think you should check out. Make me smart. It's hosted by Cairo's doll and Molly would new episodes every Tuesday. It's pretty great. You can find it at marketplace dot org slash make me smart. Port some scribe wherever you get your podcasts. Most people in recovery. Do relapse many times that's just part of the diction addiction is now understood to be a chronic brain disease and relapse rates are similar to other diseases like diabetes and asthma. Most people who try to quit don't make it a year without relapsing one study interviewed twelve hundred people who are in treatment. And then followed them over the course of eight years, researchers found that two-thirds of them relapsed before making it a year sober of those who made it a year about a third later relapsed, which is why this new movement is growing in wise to face the fact that people will relapse and to try to minimize the harms that can come with drug use. One night. I dropped by this event at the local health department high. Good. How are you? These two people had come to wise county all the way from New York City to lead a workshop I caught up with him afterward. Yeah. Hi, my name's Mike Celica worked for the harm reduction coalition. Casey bichek. They were out of town is like me. So they stuck out a little Casey had died, purple hair and a septum ring. Mike had a t shirt that said support don't punish in protest, the war on drugs, Casey and Mike our trainers with the harm reduction coalition, which is an advocacy group. The local health department had brought them to wise county to talk to public health workers about an approach that seems kind of radical to some people in wise, we acknowledged that substance use and sex work are important parts of some folks lives, and we work with folks. So that they can stay safe and healthy, not just physically, but mentally spiritually cetera while they're engaging in behaviors that are highly stigmatized. Harm reduction is an idea that public policy should focus on helping people who are addicted to drugs. Help them stay clothed fed housed as healthy as possible and prevent them from dying would harm reduction does not necessarily do is try to stop people from using drugs. Here's how Casey sums up harm reduction recovery to me doesn't always mean abstinence based recovery or getting off of substances completely. It can mean something as simple as using substances in a way that allows you to hold down a full time job or being housed and having a safe place to use substances or using a sterile syringe every time, and it can also mean absence. What Casey is saying here about creating a safe place to use substances is surprising because when people talk about ending drug epidemic. They tend to focus on getting people to stop using drugs. Not making it safer to use drugs. I asked making Casey this question that I'd been asking. Everyone on this trip. Your answer. What's the best way to deal with the drug epidemic? Mike thought about it for a while. And then he said this. So I think that you can't answer the question because it's the wrong question. We're having an overdose crisis. Not an opioid crisis. Drugs are an or chemical. They are not evil or bad enough themselves as the way we have policies around them. So had we end in overdose crisis. We invest in things like no lock zone overdose prevention sites places where people could use under supervision. So if we asked the question had to keep people from dying. We have lots of good answers the question how to stop people from using drugs. That's just not the right question. We shouldn't even be asking. Can be asking. I think people are asking that question here in shirt. Public health officials in wise aren't exactly giving up on the idea of trying to get drug users to quit, but they are embracing some of the ideas, Mike in Casey were promoting when I was visiting wise county last summer, the local health department was gradually implementing a harm reduction program based on New York's probably the most controversial idea was a needle exchange where injection drug users drop-off use needles and pick up new ones. Dr sue Cantrell is the director of the regional health department. She started pushing for a needle exchange a few years ago to prevent IV drug users from getting HIV and hepatitis keeping alive for another week or two or year. And if they get to a point that they want to change than they they know how they know who to contact with how to get there and do it so help them stop if they're willing. But if they're not willing at least make sure they're using a clean needle. But the needle exchange proposal divided the community. I talked to a lot of people who are against it. Especially cops. In prosecutors. I'm not a big fight will from law enforcement standpoint. I do have some concerns you are giving an individual an excuse to say, well, how addicted I can't help it. Give me another needle. And I'll continue if I'm a heroin dealer. That's half my battle as to get needles to use my product, so minutes, pretty good. Plus for me to set up shop, there's a certain segment of our community that feels well if you're gonna kill yourself, just go ahead and do it. On a Thursday night in January of twenty seventeen alcohol. The Wasco county board supervisors to order at the school board education center. Dr Cantrell went before the county supervisors to try to wrangle support for the Neil exchange. The board meeting started as it does every month with a prayer. We asked Lord that. You'd be part of everything that we do and west Lord that you forgive us when we fail you we seek your blessing and your wisdom and everything that we do and your son's holy name. They meant. Halfway through the meetings. Okay, next. We have not cancel Dr Cantrell came forward. She put on her dark rimmed glasses and pulled out her slides. I'll just launch right into it though. She came to sound the alarm about a looming public health, crisis wise county is at risk of an HIV outbreak. She told them, you know, right now, I don't mean to say it out loud. We haven't seen a jump in HIV. But I'll tell you why we're really worried about it is because there's area has five times the rate of hepatitis C compared to the state average and seventeen times the rate of hepatitis b she said, it's just a matter of time before issues introduced to the population. And we just haven't had HIV at that's because. I don't know what God's looking out for right now. So we can get a few things in place and get ready for it because we don't have the capacity to really to manage it at this point. Dr Cantrell reminded the board about what happened in Scott county. Indiana, a rural county mostly white with high poverty demographics, similar to wise. Scott county had an explosion of HIV cases, more than one hundred eighty just a year. The health department was completely overwhelmed after that, the CDC named counties most at risk for similar outbreaks a lot of places in Appalachia were on that list, including wise county. Doctor Cantrell told the board. The local health department has tried everything at knows to do have be vaccines. Overdose counseling. Narc Ken training in distribution. All that's left is a needle exchange. I don't really don't know. What else there is that? We can do I feel like we've done puts out there. And we're still seeing high case rates. So she was finding off tears as she told them. The county means a place. Injection drug users can get clean needles. Get tested for diseases, and maybe even agreed to treatment or counseling. I can't stand before you and promise that we won't make some steaks. And I can't tell you that. This is absolutely. The only thing we can do. I can tell you that assembly thing, I know that slip to do and. That's why request. I honestly did not know how this would play out over the months that I visited wise I talked to so many people who are posed to the needle exchange, and then I talked to people who were totally one over if you're consigning laugh. Yes. Give them a clean needle. They do it in Switzerland. I do it in other countries. That'd be if people are gonna do drugs, and they are I mean until something big changes they're going to do them. So you might as well make it safe. It's the Lewer to bring them into get hail. You can keep someone for maybe spreading HIV to a room full of people or hypnotise. Yes. Do it. Joey Ballard thought it was a good idea to he said he has never injected, but a lot of his friends do a good eighty percent of the people that I deal with shoot. If you not ever seen. And junkie set and use a dole needle on them on themselves. You don't understand it? But it breaks my heart there and watch them. I sit there and jabbed himself over and over and dig for that vein because they can't hit it with a donate. Will they can't find it? But Joey was skeptical. His friends would risk being seen going to the needle exchange the Natal shine right idea. But the problem is it's a tiny town. How many people do you really think you're gonna show up without? That was my question to you. Do you think people use it ninety percent of the people that I've talked to said no way, I'm not doing it. Here's the update. There was a lot of resistance at first especially after a needle exchange nearby. West Virginia closed down there were horror stories about needles flooding the town and a five year old girl getting stuck with a dirty needle in a McDonald's bathroom. But ultimately, Dr Cantrell was victorious the board unanimously voted to support the needle exchange and local law enforcement also agreed to give it a try it opened in June of two thousand eighteen that first day. No one came but over the next few weeks. Dr Cantrell, said a few people trickled in to test the waters there were three or four people that were gonna come and they decided to send one person to see if they came home and made sure it wasn't a sting operation at last count. There were seventy three participants. There has not been an outbreak of HIV so far the fears about the needle exchange. I haven't come true drug. Use hasn't spiked. Neither has crime. No children have been stuck by needles public bathrooms. The program has trained seventy percent of participants to use Narcan the overdose antidote perhaps best of all. And Dr Cantrell, actually, teared up as she told me this multiple people have already used their Narcan to save someone from overdosing ten overdoses reverse to date the needle exchange was the first in the state. They're now just to others. I was struck by how hard it had to have been to build this kind of program in wise at every turn Dr Cantrell has had to persuade people to change the way they think about people who use drugs she's kept at it year after year. I asked her what motivates her? Let me read that verse to you. Okay. She asked if she could Email me an answer later because she didn't trust herself to speak, but after a few moments, she cleared her throat, and this is what she said. So it's looped here for thirty plus years and followed my family has personally dealt with this. I've seen a lot of wonderful people who themselves and their family have. And as I look at the struggles of this. And look at the struggles that we all have with decisions that we made in the past that we would like to go back and change some of which are easier to undo than others. I look at as a Christian look at people as not neighbor, and I'll look at the folks out there who are struggling with health issues. What ever they are and addiction is one of them as moniker, and I would want to treat them the way. I wanna be treated love your neighbor. Like you love yourself. And this is how it won't be treated. So people have come around to this idea of harm reduction, or at least trying it but to be clear drug users and dealers are still getting busted by the cops and going to jail across the country and in wise county. On a cold night in January. I was sitting in an unmarked police truck with detective, Tim McAfee. He was parked on the side of the highway winning a radar gun at cars as they came down a hill. It was a quiet night. But after a while a red Toyota Camry whizzed by going like twenty over the speed limit. Yes. He raced off down the highway and pulled the guy over ended up letting him off with just a warning as we were driving around McAfee told me about something that happened a few nights before on the same stretch of highway in the tiny mountain town of pound for Jinya population, less than a thousand people. Working along with another officer in pound Saturday evening when a tip came in up that a white truck would be traveling into pound for a drug deal the transaction of Sizewell quantity of crystal methamphetamine. Happening that night in his jurisdiction this highway US Twenty-three connects Tennessee to Kentucky, and it's become a key corridor for drug traffickers that happens to cut right through pound McAfee says meth is flooding into the region been doing this for almost forty years. There's nothing like it. We've never experienced anything like it. It wasn't long before McAfee and his partner spotted a white truck travelling in the opposite direction down the highway. So he turned around through a grassy median and followed at a distance. The white truck pulled off the highway and continued up a remote country road passed a no trespassing sign. Who you are. You're not supposed to be up here. The only thing that's up here. At the top of the hill is a mining equipment business that had long since closed for the day of two things going on one trespassing in Upton. No good being at that location. Or wasn't fact they were there to meet another drug dealer at this point McAfee turned on the police lights stopped the truck driver appear to be quite nervous said that he was lost McAfee asked the driver for his ID. There were two other people in the car Maccabi asked for the name of the person in the front seat passenger was and he stuttered a moment was slow to say, I he gave a false name. But then the driver revealed who it was it's a Joey Ballard. Joey Ballard Joey told the cops he gave a false name because he's a wanted man. He skipped out on court the week before. So a judge had put a warrant out for his arrest. When officers searched the car, they found a digital scale a little bit of what appeared to be methamphetamine and hundreds of cellophane Baggies. They arrested Joey and also Joey's girlfriend he was sitting in the back seat. According to McAfee, the driver was belligerent, but Joey seemed sad remorseful. While he was crying. Is going to go to jail is girlfriend is going to go to jail. He indicate to me essentially homeless right now, they had no place to go. You had no money, and he was just surviving. From op reception. I think he just thinking this. I'm I'm at the end spiraled down him about them at the bottom of the barrel. And he probably, you know, I think maybe they more reflective moment. I think he's probably glad it's he's at a point now where. He there's at least a path potentially in front of him that he can put this behind him. Hopefully that'll happen. I tried to interview Joey one last time I wanted to ask him about that thing detective McAfee said that maybe Joey should be glad he was caught this idea that jails a kind of intervention I wanted to ask him what he thinks about all these changes in his life over the last two years. He'd always had such sharp insights when we've talked and I wanted to know what he'd say, but I never got to ask him those questions a few days after he was arrested. Joey was led through the courthouse wearing an orange jumpsuit and handcuffs leg irons clinking against the courthouse tiles. Joey stood before a judge alternate. Looking straight ahead than down at his feet. A judge revoked bond and set a court date for two months later. I did eventually get to talk to Joey briefly while he was in jail. He was brought into the main booking room for a video. Call. How's duffield? Shitty. Asleep? Just now when I kinda got me he said he had been detoxing. He didn't look well, I asked him if he was nervous about what would happen to him. If he gets sentenced to prison. I'm trying to work some deal out. I I shouldn't be going to too long coincidence at that exact moment his girlfriend was bonding out of jail you could see her across the booking room. He hadn't laid eyes on her since they got arrested. He was calling out to her trying to get her attention. Then the guard would yell at Joey tell him not to talk to her. Joey would yell back to okay? Jelly, whatever. All well. I mean, come on. I won't get that for the rest of the for a long time. I voted for a long time ago. Sure what happened next. I'll talk to you later. Joey hung up the phone and shuffled away slowly legs shackled together. The video feed kept going for a little while a guard walked into the frame trailing. Joey the guard was shouting something to him, but Joey just kept walking. And then the feet cut off Joey is in jail his charges range from possession of math tip a session with intent to distribute to manufacturing a controlled substance. One day last spring as things were just starting to get bad for Joey legally, I was at the county courthouse to sit in on a hearing about some misdemeanor charges. He was facing. I met his lawyer a guy named Joe Kincaid leader Joe, and I got to talking and he said something that's kind of stayed with me something that sums up the shift in thinking in wise county, and the shift the whole country seems to be making in how we think about people who use drugs and what to do about drug epidemic. Josie small town lawyer he told me before he was a lawyer. He was a CPA the certified public accountant. Oh, I've changed a great deal. And as a CPA, I was very conservative Republican like when it came to people who commit crimes but him in jail. Get him off the street. Protect me. But that was before he started representing those people these days most of his clients are charged with crimes that somehow relate back to drugs and a now a. I don't want to say, I'm a democrat. 'cause there's some things I'm not I'm not pro abortion or anything like that. So I'm I'm still conservative on some issues. But when it comes to inmates, and in people who are charged in court, it really my way of thinking has changed one hundred and eighty degrees. And I think that I'm a more humane person. Because once you see a person, and you get to know some of these people, and you share their troubles in their tears. I mean, the they're they're people just like us Joe has come to believe that policy should focus on treating addiction rather than throwing people in jail. We're not going to beat it by cutting off the supply because these people will take gas cannon huff it. Okay. Or they'll take a cana- cool whip. And huff it once they're addicted they're addicted, and that's the way we've been trying to fight this. Is cut the supply, and it's just not working and put him in jail is not working the only way. Yeah. Thank yous to rehabilitate them. So he totally supports the needle exchange, which was so controversial in wise. And then he took it one step further and said something that really surprised me. I'd almost say, you know, have hospitals where they can go and get their fix or clinics where they can go and get a fix at least. They don't overdose. That's pretty outrageous in it. But and I wouldn't have said that twenty years ago. This was funny to me because Joe had independently imagined a supervised injection site probably the most controversial idea in harm reduction. It's that idea that the harm reduction trainers from New York making Casey, we're talking about it's a safe place where people can go at their drugs usually heroin bought off the street and shoot up a nurse watches to make sure no one dies in some countries. Doctors will even prescribe heroin to us under a doctor's care. They're supervised injection sites in Canada, Australia, and Europe. But so far there aren't any in the United States, though, some cities are trying to start them. I told Joe all of this thrilling. Okay, I'm glad to hear. They're trying something because we've talked about him. I often I've talked about, you know, just having hospitals where they can go and lay down in a bed and get injected. And then when they're done they can get up and leave. It's kind of wild. It's a pretty liberal idea. Yeah. That's what I mean. I'm not I'm a pretty active when it comes to most things, but I've just come to the point where you see people out there doing their sticking all kinds of needles in their arms, dirty needles, and they're putting all kinds of chemicals in their bodies. And it's just killing them is killing them. Those ideas that joking Cade was talking to Caitlyn about the ideas that he and his neighbors, in wise county or entertaining now things like focusing less on the supply side of drugs. Locking up dealers and users and focusing more on the demand side, helping people manage their addictions things like needle exchanges, maybe someday even things like supervised injection sites. People in wise arrived at these ideas because they saw firsthand how other approaches seem to fail them and on a national level. That's kind of where we're headed to we still spend a lot of money on drug enforcement and a lot of people are behind bars, but federal budgets are putting some more money toward treatment and lawmakers on both sides of the aisle are beginning to rollback, some of the harsh antidrug policies that ramped up during the war on crack. These new approaches might be both welcome and frustrating to the people who are part of the collateral. Damage in the war on crack people like Keith Jackson. The kid who got arrested for selling crack in front of the White House. People like is classmate Kari bridges whose families struggled with drugs and did not get much help. In fact, as news. These approaches are to the country Kerry and many others have been thinking about focusing on the demand Ravin the supply of drugs for decades, they're addictive in his disease, and we need to get them some help. Okay. But we didn't need to get them any hope years ago. Okay. Let's just wondering so. As a black woman. It'd be states like what were you doing twenty thirty years ago when it was when it was a problem, then, but it wasn't a problem because they couldn't identify. It wasn't until it stretched over different demographics different socio economic class. And then it became a problem. But it's always been a problem. This ethnic like the ones before it will end in some ways, it's what we do. In the meantime, that makes a difference to try to make sure that drugs don't hurt people so much and that policies meant to combat them. Don't inflict so much pain either. Maybe that'll be a lesson. We've learned better by the time we get hit with the next drug epidemic. Because one thing that is certain there will be a next drug epidemic. That's it for this season of the uncertain. Thanks so much for listening. This episode of the uncertain our was reported by Caitlyn. VM certain our is produced by me because he Clark and Caitlyn Nash along with associate producer Peter Balan on Rosen production assistant, and Reese and digital producer, Tony Wagner. Ben Heff code is our video producer mixing and sound design by Jake Gorski, additional production help from Lyra Smith. Our podcast is edited by Kathryn winter Satari Nevis is the executive director of on demand at marketplace. Deborah Clark is the senior vice president and general manager you can find photos and more from the season on our Instagram at marketplace APM and at uncertain our dot org. If you enjoyed this season, I hope you'll consider sharing it with a friend or leaving us a review on apple podcasts. It really helps and special thanks to Tommy Andres Betsy Streisand Rostan. Woo Richard Parkes, Steven Simon Maya beckstrom, Coron Buchanan. Erica wideman, Michael Durfee. Max Felker Kanter, Sylvia, STO and the commune. Ity coalition Justin Brown, candy, Simon Patrice Wallace. And all the residents of a new way of life. Jeff, Don, feld Jerome Jaffe. Mary Weaver and friends outside LA Jonathan culkin's John carnival herald Pollock all our marketplace colleagues who helped us with feedback along the way and Nancy for Gauley who helped bring this podcast into the world. And thanks so much all of you who've helped support the work. We do with your donations. You can contribute at uncertain our dot org. We'll be back next season to dig into something else. We fight a lot about but no only a little about. insert our supported by the Annie E, Casey foundation, dedicated to creating a brighter future for the nations. Children more at eighty c f dot org.

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Debunking Myths No. 2 with Dr Mac

Body Science Podcast Series

47:23 min | 1 year ago

Debunking Myths No. 2 with Dr Mac

"This week. I've got the big dog back in professor Chris McClellan, Ian, we're gonna talk miss. We got a lot of good feedback in a whole lot of height is from the last one. What do you think might bring the height, and let's just drop knowledge bombs. Exactly getting guys enjoy. Welcome to the body sides podcast bringing you everything you made want and should know about health, fitness, nutrition and training as always the inflammation causes the nation purposes only, and he's not designed to diagnose treat prevent or many any injury disease or other health related condition. Today's podcast is brought to you by new clean bonds. We stayed countless hours sourcing only the best pie quality nourishing ingredients from trusted supplies and getting the balance between nutritional value taste and texture. Just ride may with all natural ingredients. You can feel good about like plant proteins fruits seeds and nuts simply bursting with quality protein, anti-oxidants fiber and healthy fats. Plus a one hundred percent vegan friendly and the taste divined walkner body size. HQ the world of happy and healthy. With me today is doctor or professor Chris McCullough. Now might wanna be questions is coming through the mile is what is it? Professor. Well, it's a good question. Because in social media will people like to call themselves this thing, and you I'm all my little pet peeves people who embellish they call for Tyson. Well, what is a professor or surprise the negative? Todd. I'll tell you how I become a professor audit. Twelve years of full time study university in undergraduate and post. Graduate studies in a four year bachelor's degree. I did a four year master's of physi- therapy. And then I did four year PHD in exercise endocrinology -nology by chemistry and physiology that gives you a pay, and that's the starting point in academia. So a lot of people guy PHD job. Don, fantastic choice off a doctor when you've got that people can call themselves. Doctor your other a medical doctor GP who's got a medical degree or you got a doctorate as state as sending more world. That's the starting point. That knows your doctor. My doctor was in endocrinology hormones in response to exercise specifically. So that was what all I spent a lot of time looking at in professional athletes. What happens then is you can Danny back on an academic career within the EU career options are really limited Cy academe year is a hierarchical structure with the professors, the Horst toddle you can have and it works backwards from there. So you start as Elektra usually with a PHD. And so there's usually a number of ranked within that the tight about four years to get through his level. I and level b so you'll spend four years as a lecturer then you can. A senior extra minimum for years at that level. Then you become associate professor minimum for years at that level. And then you can become a professor Cy for me, twelve years of full time study twelve years of progression through academia, which is all meritorious. So it's not just you get it because you've been around for twenty years, you get it because you made the criteria and it's highly competitive, and then courtiers around teaching it's around research, it's around contribution to the literature essay published pipers, you speaking conferences around the world, you look for research funding in various areas, and you have to substantiate that lie that you've met the criteria to progress through the ranks. So how many sports science professors other mistrial much universities on the have one? Okay. Wow. Yeah. Why not? So there are a number of them. And all I became a full professor a couple years guy. And so kind glosses without have a very often along the y. You've heard that before on. That's good. But along the why published one hundred peer reviewed works across everything from period viewed pipe is conference proceedings all that sort of thing, and you don't get to professor and to get this familiar twelve years full-time study, another seventeen years in academia, so you do the math, and there's a there's a real history there around that on a little bit unique. I like to think I'm a little bit different in that concurrently. Iva after doing more initial studies or went and worked in Japan for seven years and official rugby. Okay. And then I was hit a performance of the Totten's in the NRL was there for seventy s six six or seven years hit a sports on at the prisoner lawns. And the Phil doco sons hit a sports on the and in the last since about the last threes or mine Lee nail consult globally, and we'll sit on reference committees and things like that. So I'm on editorial boards of scientific journals. Always see a lot of research, some of it really good quality some of it lists. But in terms of United become a professor of you when people call themselves, you know, the muscle proof. Yes. And. Have a degree on the guy that gets a little bit perturbed by that. Because it took me thirty wall took me twenty odd years twenty six years to get and you don't. Yeah. I'd get twenty six years experience. When you're thirty five years old on forty non obtain around a wall. And so that's how that works. And so I guess what what enables made to be in a position to Mike some commentary around the things that we talk about in these tiles sees that background that easing academia. Yes. That is Bon afford qualifications and the blend all of industry experience. So it doesn't mean evidence-based myth bus. All yes. I well. This is evidence by says really popular tune at the moment will see a lot of people running workshops around the place that signing the evidence by the thing to remember people is there's lots of different levels of evidence right from its very lowest level, which is just an opinion or Thais study. You'll something like that. What we call an innovation. So in is it means a number. You told talking about my own experience Cy someone's evidence Saran culprit monthly that I did a bodybuilding comp themselves, and this is what worked for them. And so I'm going to use that evidence to to five hundred people that's got absolutely no value whatsoever. The horse level of evidence is what we call a systematic review. And that is I really comprehensive systematic overview of all of the research, displaying Donal a particular topic. It could be like if it's caffeine won't be a review of eleven thousand pipes. It's a it's a big big jobs. I always proceed with caution. When people say that they providing the evidence more will show me the evidence. Yup. What is your, and that's why we provide that in these in these podcast because it's pretty easy to just fall an opinion. We'll give an opinion because we like to give an opinion. But will also provide you with some substantiated validation of that information. So you can leave this now in Well, Matt didn't just pluck this out of thin. And that's what we're trying to do in and announced talking a lot of the caveat. Is that we provide information wrong. We don't want to diagnose anyone got a few. Today's sort of myths and probably misconceptions is appropriate. Some interesting ones looking the list. Well as a couple that we wanna go off. I'll see things that are really trendy shake my head because there's very little evidence to support them often. And in industry, we're in an industry where everyone's trying to fall on something new and different. And just because it's different doesn't mean. It's necessarily better or any more valid than what we've been doing for forties. Absolutely. Yeah. I've got twenty to hear that people have asked for all the teams come up with. Let's start with the first one FA training is better than shoes glued development. So before training has become a really popular thing, particularly for deadly shooting in James now, low people's easy in a pre key because OSCE in in every Jim everyday, oh, I actually have often ponded wise that a thing because on live in a world where I tell you. I'm talking about muscle activation patents. And we we measure that voyeur what's called EMC Electra Margarete, that's where you place. Little electrodes on the muscle bellies of the muscles that are active during a movement. So these guys with with did lift, it would be glued max, good me. The court complex Rick fem. Vessel royalists media. So that sort of thing and then into the hamstring complex boss Morris on semi member is a semi ten than ISIS. Get into a doctor longest Purvis the whole works. Priscilla Sattori is the whole works raw an evening to gastric salivas t Baynes the whole lot. So I take a breath. So if you're not what those muscles odd, then you really don't belong in the compensation. But I mean, I'm talking sort of reading than I thought you're gonna pass out. Well, then we drawn. We go. Yeah. So you won't get some Mr. Assis coastal Sombor him, and we'd get stuck into the power sponsors to people got Rick to spawn. I I'm like well. Yeah. So what are they? Anyway, that's a different fate. Yes. Or not Biffi. The answer is an inconvenient reality. It comes from. I think the lifting strategy based on the assumption that shoes lucky normal running shoe has a soft Saul that will absorb some of the impact. And I have a little bit of a heel. So that a rock you into an anterior position. You don't want to be escort shoes. If anyone lives seeing Olympic weightlifting shoes, you would say not. So they'll go to heal ROY. We want to squat in our shoes. But we don't want to leave the Nike shoes. Generally. We we know that the preferred position for did lifting is with you fate flaps. I it Chuck Tyler Zoll any of those sort of y'all Donal bullies of probably a really good show for it. And I figured that's what people have taken their shoes off because I just wanna have fat flat faith fate. And yeah, the myth is that it will increase glued activation. It doesn't meet. Quote activation myth hamstring activation. Muth is on the one muscle. And I'm going to provide you with the research because there's some that's not a law, but has been done on TV Alycia interior during the east Centric FIS of the movement is the only muscle that has an increase of man of EMC activity during that, and that's because you go into an e Centric larva Dorsey Flynn position as you lower the bottom of the floor the rest of it you ice Utah and people with this socks on your actually reducing. You're actually creating a biggest sleeping advice on the floor in your socks. So put your shoes back on and you'll be swayed, but I'm not talking about wearing, you know, maybe I don't wanna bag any particular brain. But you don't wanna shoot with a b he'll absolutely have you wearing a something. Like what ninety but there are some shoes that have be heels on them that have used for running and shock absorption. You don't wanna be lifted an is. But the whole scenario around I'm going to get more quarter recruitment glue recruitment and hamstring recruitment by stone flat feet. He's I- misnomer. And there's a piper boy Hamma at L comment in two thousand eighteen absolutely confirmed. And then there's another is actually a thesis that our red bar girl Sarah Brown from east Tennessee State university. She did I think it was a motive in a masters, and that's what she found one muscle. Thank you Bye-bye said buddy signs dot com slash podcast to download those pipes. The thing you got to think about to ROY. And this is sort of goes with that is that the foot ROY people have different fate configurations. Obviously, some people have a Hoya some people have a low arch. We actually have three obscene foot this the media long that shooting lodge, ROY which is the one we must think about go to Hoya Tra LA. So that comes from the kindness. So you tireless will bicycle extends from the Calcutta's through to the tile us than it akilah, the three tonight foam binds, and then the proximal ends of you three metals three medial metatarsal to be source, then you have a long lateral onto to lodge that extends from the Calcutta's. Which is you calculus depends on how you want to pronounce it to the Cuban across the keyboard? And then the proximal ends of the full fifth metatarsal. But then we have a transverse arch at the front of the foot. So you can look at the foot from the from. The media sawed the inside or the at sword electoral sword, or then we can look at it from a transverse. So looking at the toes looking backwards. Now, people aren't really flat fee or want them to have some sort of odd support, and is athletes that I work with all the time who have got like hands flat as they will be rocked. What we see is some changes in foot configuration during white bearing. And this is for those that are interested Val ni- terms, this things full foot various Fulford valorous and reef would ferris what happens when you have a traditional Fulford virus? So Fulford various has a slot. Inversion of the forefoot sound talking about the front of the foot when you load that foot up with a white what you would do and you deadliest you'll drop into an eversion of Calcutta. So you clap seen effectively and that that leads to knock-kneed talk presentation that affects Excu angle and that a fixable. You'll loading primitives through the law Liam side shoes on yourself some support because you're not you're not recruiting anymore muscle bobbing. Biff what have we done that to death yet? Nothing have. That was a very good myth, boss. I don't know if it's a meat, but it's a misconception. You're not going to. Well, it is a myth, you know, recruiting anymore muscle sippy. If you want to build up YouTube anterior, defer NAS, I'm jumped number two now. Bray the minutes in that was big. And so my aiding mate increases the risk of cancer. Yeah. So this is another one that's a little bit of meat for misnomer. Perhaps. So there are no let's recognize because there'll be some people who be very passionate about these paths. Let me be clear. My put this one in myself. There are many many many pipers that provide causative relationship between a Hoy meat consumption dot and cancer risk. Roy no argument, the Qianjiang explain what that means will is a 'cause I just wanna correlations not a direct correlation. If you eat may does not directly correlate that you will get an increased cancer is it's not a guarantee. Right. It's a causative relationship Ivan Tong now, that's only the case in very specific circumstances because you must have will the inconvenient truth. You that that that causative relationship or that increase risk only occurs. If you have one other chronic disease related respect is and the big four are I b. Versity cigarette smoking alcohol consumption, any activity now, if you don't have any of those if not I base if you dance Mike if you don't drink a lot of alcohol, and you and you us always then you have no greater risk with an increased protein consumption dot than someone who's gonna a price. So it can we define I basically in devoid demo, so there would be those that are, you know? So this is a good actually ran what's I've white. This is I've I've basically so we're going to we at more and those that are morbidly obese on our on a more style. So really, and that's I'm I'm sort of stuttering he because Bama is not necessarily a great measure of body composition for athletic populations with muscle mass. So as a general comment, it would be would side, you people with a very Hoy. Or if you're I've a forty percent body fat. You're at harvest, okay. Yeah. Forty toy. What is really interesting is that it's mediated boy. So Kansas, an interesting thing, and I'm no no colleges. But it's it actually helps to give you a really brief overview of hell, Kansas work and. So the the primarily each in law affect a one or one mediated they needed growth factor. So the body cells produce reactive oxygen spicy so sales getting damaged old. I wrote a pot of risperidone energy productions help words that damages normal bodies really efficient Royd cleans up things very well. Voi- tumor suppressor genes chimneys suppressor genes instigate what's called apoptosis, which is self destruction of damaged sills to stop them devoiding and metastasized fundamentally right when you have Hoy Mance of DNA damage, the the genes become mutated, and if that is not if there's anything that inhibits that chimps oppressive factor that causes apoptosis of the self doesn't if the cell is in a growth environment. It can become what's called an oncogene genes that are involved in Silla Hejin if they become mutated they're metastasis. So there's different types of cancers, depending on where the cells are, it's quite complicated. But cancer really fundamentally is deny unregulated DNA damage and saw an inflammation inflammation. Really tape player in this. But all of that needs a growth stimulant to overawed, the natural sill destruction that leads to reproduction of damage sills Augie. If one is the media for that. Now wig fat non win meet and comes into it is that may toy protein, obviously, right proteins, hiring amino acids, particularly loosening so loosing is regulated as we know all the MTA pathway if your member around protein, synthesis and muscle mass and muscle development into a pathway and orgy if one so the Linke's white protein Haji if one is a switch on signal growth activation for sills. So that's the link. People got real Hoy mate high-protein ugly scene. Hoi m-tall pathways Hoya, gee, if one growth environment Intel's, it tells the cells to keep producing even though I should die, and that's how tans develop yet but pot about now that's an simplification of it. But that's bicycling. How it works orgy if one actually tunes off the what's called the tougher g. Pathways it inhibits FOX, I three pathway, which is pretty complicated. But you now together and by switching or FOX I three pathways bicycling opens the guide for progressive growth. So even these damaged cells that should self destruct duct, and that's where we have problems. And that's why mate it's associated with that. Now the plant as people of the world who think that the avoiding this risk of cancer? It's not mate as such ROY loosening and a main news stimulate orgy if one so if you're plant buys person and supplementing EU dot which should because you need them. And this is where I'm heading with this in need Dreyfuss online, you need orgy F one in need him towpath pathways to mind tying muscle the normal lawf-, you can't get around. So if you're supplementing your dot with loosened, for example, and if your plant buys person or should be it's the same stimuli as if you have a stike, so you kind of different reasons why people are plant biased, but this would not be one of them in Kenyan. Yeah. So anyone meeting mate increases risk? Of cancer on the if you're a base. Yep. If you're a smile, you're an alcoholic and unites of sauce. No awesome. Is people doesn't matter. That was big one. We've got too messy ones start. Well, he's not only get asked about a lot out officials Wheaton's cause cancer, energy drinks, all the devil. So again as as what position more monster next. The more red bull as. Under tight these podcasts. So he's the thing ROY what's actually go. I'll tell you get twenty. I got some good ones. Some time. Yeah. So he's the thing. Roy the short entity question is garbage. Okay. Well, okay. You got any counselors cancer? Cancel got. And you said, well, I was coins and cancer cancel download what they recommend donations off those two thousand nineteen this year. There's a study a systematic review boy Toews t o w s and we can provide that absolutely categorically, slam dunk out officials witness do not contribute to white guy. Do not increase hung up and do not elevate your risk of cancer. All of the myth comes from not all of it. But a lot of it comes from and people talk about the rat study from two thousand and five right? So there was a study on rats and guy it was boy a supreme w. SO are double d your. It's a free in two thousand and fall put that down the bottom. Even with looking at the reference this afraid he's piper in two thousand and five. Right. So they fit rats a ton of a spot time, ROY so Rottweiler. He's about four hundred grams that pretty bit lab rats, not moss, and I gave them about twenty grams various spices. But the ones that go twenty four hundred twenty grams on a four hundred gram rat. Right. So that's the quivalent of me having five kilos or five million milligrams of a spot time died. How would you feel if you had that well in real terms that would be may consuming? So this is a monster five hundred milligram wants that has twenty eight hundred milligrams of spa time, we'd have to have one thousand seven hundred ninety four canes die to replicate that study. It's just garbage myth. Meet me, my another big one, we could Oslo to dairy products increase estrogen dodge, garbage. So he's the thing. He's the reality. So he's the interesting thing. Oh, would put it to you, Gregory that the same people that are telling you sweetness give you cancer of the sign people telling you that make gives you the sign people telling you that your Li fatigued the sign people knew that dairy products might. Wish Trajan dominant, which I'll talk about in a minute rubbish rubbish. Anyway, this Fisher rod so the tiny compared to what the body produces you produce a human body will produce about six thousand times more estrogen die than what you would get from five hundred mil come consuming milk. Myth myth. Yeah. And off and of luck, and we will Kentucky shame coffee. Caffeine main is during fostering or get this one off the lot have you been Sicily. So I'm an intimate and faster. Let's get what are you? Really? We'll we'll have a bit of. Well, see, here's the thing. Roy Moore time restricted sheets. Omitting modified Kaitai retired of the fasting. Right. We know this right about food. The gut is important, but the marker buoy Ida in China's throughout the day. So we know that if you have meal X brought now in the morning, and you have that sign meal with the same ingredients macaroni nutrients lighter in the dight. You'll get a different response. We neither way more insulin sensitive in the morning, and we more fat at depth janey in the morning. Roy this is pro. Woj? This is on the door modified intermittent Tom restricted feeling so time restricted fading. Is of people ask is a lot as well. Tom restricted eating is a type of intermittent fasting two reasons why it fast or I guess too. Well, there's two reasons what you should fast. One is a lot of people do it for White House because they're trying to become Kita Jenny. But the other is the longevity benefits around, you know, how mentioned up toasts and tougher G and sill preprogramed destruction. Yes, you get that we've fasting after bet, but you have to be into into a fast for probably at least twenty four hours. Okay. So you don't get that with sort of fog minutes, but the benefits anyway, the answer to the question because the question is why have a black. The other thing is what's a coffee so onto black coffee. Not mill if you have milk in coffee that will break your fast, absolutely black coffee, the general consensus is that that's like coffee, but what coffee or caffeine will do is change your circadian clock. So we know that every organ has a time we talked about circadian rhythm. We have in different. So if you consume caffeine lighter in the die it it'll shift o'clock Bob at forty minutes, which is kind of interesting and said that'll change the metabolism in you dot any live throughout the night. Okay. So that'll dental prolong how the got tolerates different types of foods. So there's a really for those that are interested in this stuff or recommend raid. The work of Dr Ruth Patterson, Ruth Patterson is a researcher with breast cancer in the US and has done a lot of work around intimate and fasting with cancer patients and unbelievable success rights like thirty six percent reduction in cancer recurrence. Log lau. Really incredible stuff. A main is wise, it's a little bit different. Because a main news, and we've talked about this a minute ago with Lucena may knows will will deactivate will fasting is good because it deactivates that orgy F one pathway. That's what's really good for hill. And also at the activates the towpath, but by the is it going to be switched back on boy mean is particularly loosing. So a main is will mess up your fasting. So what I would say to you is black coffee ni-, problems, your brains China. And we'll let definitely have him. But just about gonna break you fast. So darned have them and think that you still going to be fasted electrolytes. Sorry, you didn't mention, but I'll mention electrolytes because that seems to be a bit of arriving faced around where we're at with that it seems to not like magnesium, and sodium and those sorts of products doesn't seem to changes circadian rhythm. Okay. So it probably doesn't impact when you fasting too much. I know people ask me this assault. So I'd be people ask me we'll hit each time out of a fast because if you've eliminated food from your dot for period of Tom, and then you throw it back in you can have some disturbances and saw what side of the people is that you want to bring in some protein. So you want some essential amino in whatever formula, it could be beef chicken fish could be whatever because you want to switch your one. But back on hip, that's an important thing. Some cobs are important because Kaaba hydrates increase orgy if one boil availability so one I'm going to switch it on with pride time to him gonna absorb absorb it better with tops. So I need to have by vice orders keeping more in touch sensitivity and dine at Christ ninety the bui- onto Bank fasting two is that will be more than I recommendation knows his next one is what is estrogen dominance exists. Yes on I. Yes. Wow. So Istrian dominance is another netra paths to him now feel bad that it's not a medical diagnosis estrogen dominance, more read. On. It's the theory about metabolic site with the level of estrogen at wise the level of progesterone in the body. That's what I'm talking about. When all he that will interpret it to estrogens are really important survival in health home on for both genders, and we've talked about actually when we did it testosterone. It's converted from interesting doyen, which is Andrew John Barnes. I'm an end zone cold aromatized, and we talked about the hall access boy, which the hike PG X's way boy walking into it. But look nosing home full ical stimulating Homa, and blah, blah. Blah, Augusta the ivories and produces estrogen in one direction and progesterone in the Cy estrogen dominance put certainly people can have higher estrogen progesterone, absolutely, positively Hoyer Istra John liberals are differently sized United with things like in Dmitry ISIS. Police cystic ivory syndrome because really and lot of light. He's listening. Yeah. So that definitely exists. Definitely. Whereas the lower estrogen is more Ovalles postmenopausal adaptation that we see in ladies and often that can be a sided with some pretty some pretty Maija health concerns, particularly around things like Ousama Parkinson's things like that. So. Yeah, you can you can have a high level of estrogen. Whether it's domino off. You can. That's semantics familiar around the terminology. But yep. It can be ho- or north. He's pal ifting bench press better than traditional muscle cruises Moi, but Bittu or see a lot of people doing well. Apparently, you not the the bug bay. Because this is a question yet. Maybe you've mentioned in some we've done previously, but mighty if you wanna be a pale if you should leave Laka pal if you wanna be a bodybuilder and developed pick draw us Maija, then you should do a traditional benchpress. It's simple as that. What happens when because I think there's a bit a misconception around the mechanics of those lifts, it depends what you're trying to achieve if it's a it's a Pell lifting movement where you're just trying to move a lot of fright, then for sure. You want to be the big back arch. You wanna be feet right up on the bomb the whole works. Right. But if you want to always light pick Kerala's Maija, then you need to get your three points. Things. Get you bump back on the bench. Get your feet on the ground and do bench press. Probably what happens when you touch to bench press properly Utah's. If you want to tells me been catching in the gym. Dragging him along main. So a lot of people think, oh, there's a bit of misconception that you recruit more pick Maija when you're in that pelleting position your dot. Okay. And you can throw the GM work on you actually, get a Fitbit of Subba crime. You'll Busa impingement more personal opinion. Is that physique athletes and everyone else in the world except palaces should bench personally, pal? If this should bench press, look pal and would leave it at that north my he's a big one. You burn more calories. Afra- hit session. So that's based on what's called the excess post exercise oxygen consumption will epoch which is become really popular. Trannywood trendy word a lot of people talking about it. What I would say to you is. It is absolutely a thing. Yes. You will burn calories for prolonged period of time after he'd session. Now. Can I saw something is an F Forty-five session and he'd session based on the answer. You've just keep an oil not an exponent forty four. And I'm just saying that stall training like forty five and then because it's self-determined I'm not having to got it forty five not laze now and think I am I'm just with a lot of people doing it. Forty five was still trying to get my be is that what you call. What do you call it hit session with you? You've done the science sought of it. And it is nothing like a familiar hid session is. So for me pointed interval training is maximum effort. Maximum thirty second effort, followed boy a relatively short recovery and back to back. If it's you only need do about ten of them like a wing gate test for people know, what I'm talking about slamming robes on the ground for a minute and a half or picking up a dead ball, and thrown it on the ground unless you doing at maximum intensity. That's that for me. Personally, does not a high intensity interval center at something else. And then if you walk over to the next station and stand around and look at site, we might answer this question based on the two stalls. He so if we're doing a clinical based hit session at maximum put maximum like you said, thirty seconds. So if you're doing the maximum if it works, and by that woman, you're gonna fall off the book looking for bucket for a bucket indefinitely with things become a little going to burn more calories after that. Because you go into what's called an oxygen deficit. And so after exercise your body chores to return that to normal levels. You think of it that you are the body oxygen you going into an anaerobic metabolism. And it's been around forever. Nonni Twenty-three was the first study done. Boy, he'll and it was only oxygen debit Popoff asus. And it's evolved ever since. So you have super maximal if it's that have to be above the two imacs you've got to be flown. Awesome. So I've gone forty five session down on bent full fifty five hundred calories. That's different about him. I going to Cape earning off to training depends on the intensity of the session or give you an answer. Because it depends on the intensity. Maybe. Yes. Maybe not most likely. Yes. Anything I should be looking on my watch to find out. Whether I'm burning calories after I finish Knipe. So there's nothing I can do pot from hot rod will come back to normal. Yeah. Econ perceive it as such weird for where there is the anomaly is there are some Wardley exaggerated taunt frames around hell loan. You'll going to burn those calories. Full brought some people assigned. You're going to burn tellers forty eight hours. Some not garbage. You've said, okay. So most the vast majority of research tells. Us that the really haunting city Nivel work. We'll have an extension of e Paul in calorie burning for up to or four hours about the average. But it might be at the seven. It depends a little bit right? So anyone says do this workout and you're gonna burn calories for twenty four hours a forty Idaho's is absolutely dreaming. So I wanna ask you some dumb questions right now as a resistance exercise, whether you want to be so this is where you're at forty five workouts or your orange theories in that might be very good. Because the they using harm might on not sign that thing. Thing they live near forty five session, the benefactor thirty six hours. That's what we're trying to do the work way. They goes thirty six dollars is rubbish four hours probably yet. Okay. So upset anybody. Oh, and I'm upset was just telling just debunk and miss. So somebody does max apple sort of the red bull scale challenges on how many made it can you get in thirty seconds people need to do that ten times to actually. Okay. Well, that's not happening more not one off it. He's not going to get you in. And you won't be able to do ten the first time you do it. So what I say to people is if you want to get a really good calorie burning and their next meet is hit better than least fuel fat loss arch. Think you want to combine because I'm a big fan of the heat work Roddam your own or just not think people do their heat at a high enough intense? I think people tend to coast a little bit through it. If you are, you know, back to the wall looking for bucket having a real hot crack, and you blend that in with some might be Laurentien city recovery, evil stuff. It's a really good combo. And there's a lot of the research is still supporting the motoring intensity spice, and we did that when we. Today. I'm sorry. We just get off LA z. What people go, I just, you know, session or white mentioned anyone the storm. So you didn't get caught up in that. Let's just session this, you know, must be better in fat for hours and hours and probably for three or four and that will be. And there is my twenty four just put a number at once. There are many many many studies or does it big mid or analysis that all dig out in my boo put on it just you can look it. You know, the comparison of Saif fifty studies and the moisture is about seven Alice where I think the thirty six hour time from there was a study done several years ago on some league, though, a mile row is in the twenties like Olympic level athletes who have -solutely had a D, And I measured them. I've repeated at home and they checked, but they checked the food. It was normal laws for each food type sleep the whole works. And I had a really extended e-p-o-c-h bows out that was out in the neighborhood of twenty four hours. And I think people grab hold of that as I tend to and so while I only all innovations a twenty four hours, that's not how it works. It's very heavily dependent on general body composition. Nutritionist. Tyke sleep training. History is quantum variables wants always does not fetal and ask. You wanna touch the hit his better than lists for fat loss? He's doing on. I think that it's it's more efficient. You'll still lose fat. If you do least work or lower intensity, steady Stipe. That's what we talking about. Well somewhere in between. All I think people anything's better than nothing. But. Exactly on a beta worse. More efficient. Yes. Okay. Would be the answer is a big one sly metabolism stops people losing fat. So when people say that I think they're talking about the mar- the bison metabolic right right Cy and we've talked about what he's metabolism Royd. It's the hall chemical processes that occur in in the body to my time off for that site. It's a sided with the conversion of things like food to energy for normal function. It is building blocks of protein and repair of tissues and stuff and even the elimination of Weist within the body. So we have to tops metabolism is animal. It can ketogenic anabolic build up ketogenic breakdown. Simple as that. It's a really cool process on this is what I want to talk to people about. But so there's a process called glycolysis that could within the Saudi pleasant of sills, and that's the conversion of glucose deploy revived. He's a multiple step pathway that involves a number of inns them enzyme induced actions that convert glucose, and you can run through them glucose fructose. Six false fight with alcohol three falsified into one three. Boy, I go, sir. Gouzer dose right into three fourths thankless, right? Into phosphide fan. I invite into pyrite Yousri Leto few Tom. So what happens? Danny's Peru does into the citric acid sort which is the crib sock. Roy which is where I t piece also produced we get ATP production through golf courses at the cost of various IT p molecules, but we go into the crypt Sauckel. And that's where part revived is converted boy up to Kauai. And then a single Kauai in his into the crib sokoll. It's cleaved voyeur citrate synthase is into citrate. And then it goes through the whole cycle in ultima producing Esa tight that he's been converted back through into. That's metabolism. And that's a really important part of it. Where people I think it's about here is talking about BMI, which is it bison metabolic, right, which is effectively how much energy you produce just keeping the lights on a human body. If you would asleep leaving for twenty four hour strike that sort of thing side, and that's my up all the few different things like Janika thermic effect of food, which is about maybe ten percent of our Bima metabolic, right? The BMI is about sixty percent fifty to seventy percent people tight. We have the wristing energy expenditure, which about fifteen percent. Now, we have this thing called neat, which is the non exercise activity Thermo Genesis, it's it forms the reminder effectively metabolism. So what was the original question? Does is a slow metabolism stops losing fat. It's not really now. So it's hard to regulated Ken people have a slow BMI. Yes. But ten you do something about it. And you can do that through a whole range of things. Now BMI does decline about one or two percent after you turned twenty. So it's pretty. Let's start to drop down, and we can measure it or use a thing called a quack, which is a who'd vice indirect Keller on Coloma tree that we can use to to measure things like I restricted Eckstein dry shows and things like that. But it's all hot foulness. Regulated the harmfulness is cave. A we talked about it all the time. But I guess in essence to give you a yes or no outside knows. He's one for yet. Deck says Yanni way to accurately measure body fat decks is pretty popular so jewel energy. X Ray absorbing traumatize a assault patrol Matry kind of in speak been talking too much on another. It's using Julie tries ROY the problem. Addicts are is that it does provide a radiation does. So there is a limit to how many of these you can have every year. So Quainton health will limit that health regulators will limit that Dixon's a going in gyms or stuff around the plight and causes an enormous medal of Allom to me. There are a number of ways we miserable. He composition Archer static. Ryan Ying's Bina ran for or hard-right insa. Toma tree's been around for really long time skin falls, girth measures, biological impedance. Oh, boy is been around for quite some time comes to be the heat. But it's actually a really good mode of doing it because it's reproducible things. Like CAT scans MRI, boys. And what's what both pod Pless our graphic which can never pronounce can, you know, anyway, it's more of I volume measurement measurement. Anyway. So the answer is not this is not the only way to do a Dixie gold standard for buying mineral density. Yes. But not necessarily body comp. I get and that's probably the consideration this other otherwise we can do it differently. And if you wanna. Noninvasive measure where that you could do every week that you want to there's different types of fat. And we talked about this ROY this subcutaneous fat. There's visceral fat visit topic fat. There's a whole lot around. So if you do your skin falls, you're just doing you subcutaneous. So that's not really giving you much in the way of total health private. Okay. What poets are pretty rare? The eyes are everywhere we have them in jeans and supplement shops in different providers site, always be oil it on that. That is not a classic one might faucet. Coty? I was just eating before training. Weighty cub. That'll be recovered it lost home. But that's incorrect. Bicycling because you need about four hundred ten to fourteen hours for the limited play clock edge. So it's more of a process of making sure that you haven't eaten for a period of time pro at so you on tightening exercise before you d county. So you need to be depleted droid because you wanna be because the whole crux of it is the development of ti-time bodies ROY Chitose, which is you beta hydroxybutyrate, and you're a Saito s tight right? So you beat a hydroxy Buta right for really quick IV for the is that aunt familiar since liba boil the metabolism of fatty acids, it's formed by Louis sane. It's converted from beta or drug CB metal beauty, right? Which is you. Hi, Tim be on the fan of the high champion. That's why in muscle and live up and gets converted into beta hydroxybutyrate. I was gonna ask you a question about high Chimba, we didn't have any left themselves. So he's stoned is CLI a seat allies inhibitor. What does that mean? It's an it enhances any oxidant mic and. Resumes as well. So it's pretty cool for and it's called a stacking. Anyway, cut a long story short the goal. You want to read about that works in the spice is called. Eric the dean the dean, and he's a he's a later in this spice goes at the bottom of the podcast putty, so-and-so combed dry for such podcast all these links going in so Cedo acetate. He's the metabolic precursor for a beta hydroxybutyrate, and it's a metabolism fatty acids again, and it's the first key time body that gets produced during fasting. Okay. So is important because it mitigates muscle loss. So the question door lose muscle. When I I is now you died. The question should be doing eight more food to better train. If you not probably actually it's productive. So anyway, I think the about yet. He's won a R exercises should be done before sheldrakes. He's doing. Right Tyson exercises. So this is the one people I've taken the exercise know the people standing the gym with the one kilo dumbbell into Eckstein. All right. So I don't see any point to doing that. Just to qualify. You have a master's degree. Physiotherapy of Don a couple of rehabs him Olov. You've got to think about the right side of tough. And most people don't even know what the muscles are of their. I tidy tough from what they do. But it superstar Titus infra spin out as Terry's Mona and sub scapula they annot pro moves, they're all when you cut to the Chinese is to centralize the head of the humerus in the Glenwood. Fulsome? It's the keep it in the middle. Bright fight. Yes. They play a role in cypher example, super Smith's does play a role in external rotation. Also a little bit at horizontal abduction Terry's more on Google play a role in external rotation but Moina subscale our says an internal rotunda. But they on what you pro moves, then all the adults. So what are we doing before shelter exercises in shoulder? Exa sources say guy that was pretty simple. If you wanna if you wanna bench warm up to bench bench, if you want to warm up to do an IVA hit press doing. I've ahead press war on the Jim let's keep going does cut before whites ruined, my workout. So that's the concept of concurrent training been around forever. Bodybuilding probably got ROY illegal. And if the well, yes. Yeah. The deed, but not peps to live. I think that they would do their whites first, and then the cottiaux off and the rationale was that the whites depleted, mortgaging gets all them. We'll fat macario actually much really would sense when that falls ivory is when you've been sucking on some drink in your drunk bullshit. For sugar. So this include research anyway to nighttime. There's a study boy bicycling found that you actually get a benefit. So there's actually benefit to doing strength training off to cardiac for the law. William more southern. Yeah. Pulling limb, Don, okay? That's just the researching. It's the first time you've ever said that you Don. So what would it be the law improbably? It's probably a muscle blood flow provisions. So it's warmed up on. It's ready to guy. He's an all the one one to hot. Why do I sweat when I take jokes destroyed? Yeah. That's a good question. So people let's get it straight, Android. They met. You sweat has nothing to do with him yet so revenue evaporative heat loss. And it's to do with these swift. Glands ROY they called Ekran glands e CCRI in Egeland, glanced. They're keyed relation. What happens is? You'll means of your body ROY forty million of these suckers, probably more all of you. And so what have someone actually counted that believable? What happens when we have some of these products? We get a call of response didn't call in his New York transmitter that will be released from cholinergic nerves bones to the receptor of the coin gland, and switches it on and it produces swit- now that that's what happens when you have drugs. And so it's I guess that's what happens you get an increase. Call and response that switches only gland, and you sweat, no pretty much ramps. Up your regulation Rams up yet emit tablets. He's a big one. We've all been off. Can I lose fat and Bill muscle the same tone? Yes. You can. It's really that simple. But yes, you can't so often people lose fat, and they look gyn muscle to independent mechanisms we talked about muscle mass. And hey, you get muscle mass element. And we need certain things for that McKenna transaction you didn't metabolic adaptation, and you need a little bit of Trump you'll sign the I growth stimulus. So you need your m-tall pathway, you're on one pathway that. We've said has good and bad ramifications ROY need pride and synthesis. You need delivery of nutrients. To be able to do that. Can you do that? When you Clark stick restricted, you can you can you can heal and you can recover quite Naw sleep in a clerk restricted dot provided. You got macro profiles tricked. What are you gonna do lose fat? While you've got to be Clark. You've got to be an caloric deficit. And you've got a you've got you've got to do some exercise that puts you in that physician. Right. So I can you can you do that. And she'll say why were they what's your NC handles because you might get a couple of dams on that one. Oh, what do you think that you can't not? I just can you give me build me a program again, all as the doctor get onboard kids have a website yet to do something that Hodge it's actually to get a website ni-. Developing losing fat pays a Kaik, man. It's a bad discipline. That's what that's an commitment and being organized the reason people filing that darts is because the inaudible ause they get hungry, and you of said this in Las podcast, it's a key to losing weight and don't get hungry hungry. Everything guys at the window and even things you would never even contemplate eating. You wanna look good Don get shopping when you hungry guide calls when you hungry ends badly, all the tone retailers developing muscle is more complicated because you got to try and certain wise, and we've talked about heading on the same topic base is better used during training off the set a true fall. Why she think the I don't know if that better, I think it's a performance thing or prefer to drink them during charging him during training yet. Why? Because all I have. Oy. Harding recently bitch. Cherry picking research, and people bagging it up allies in sign their wives, the money, I kidding themselves. Just getting to the soul properly and look at Lucena. Awesome. Sign all that sort of thing a tune in terms of what it does for 'em tool pathways, and muscle, recovery, and healing and the compensations Iowa perfect. This is probably an extension of early but hit trainings functional training. We've said no to that. So trying and fun. You know, what I looked at functional trying but anyone trendy I like it. That is no hit Chinese try to use a particularly functional. In fact, it's probably the completely hopeless. Function. I shouldn't do he'd training every day because it's bad for me. You'll hold this recently actually from somebody in this office when we'd do on the questions. Okay. And then she'd been tall Boho trying to that. She didn't do shouldn't do heat everyday because it's bad for her. I would say to you in what universe early trying because then the answer to that is now say someone who could do training every day. If you have a history of let's say, you've got you've had it bilateral. Minnesota me you've got nine meniscus Sienese, right then owed side, you sure don't sprint and jump ploy box jumps every day because that will cause wear and tear and you'll feel, but if you don't have any limitations arisen more you count trying point evils every which can that's tough. Yeah. But but there's a difference between that's tough and it's bad for ya. Yeah. Exactly question is he is a bad, some definitely tough. But it's looking at you here. We got muscle turns to fat when you stop trying. Now, it doesn't it's physiologically impossible. What happens to people when they to get how bet? Some muscle and maintain of muscle. You've got to consume a lot of calories. What happens when people stop Chinese? They forget to stop eating as much and so they just get fat. And and what happens when you stop training you. You'll lose muscle for sure you which called sack opinion muscle atrophy disuse atrophy talk to muscle fibers your first day Bye-bye. Right. So stop trying but on meeting the same because I'm bulking. So you're just gonna get fat and skinny so you skinny fat skinny fat. Yeah. No, that's bad. But fat does not not in any way possibly physiological in. Humans. Matt muscle. Cannot turn to fat muscle. It's nice guy fast and causes muscle loss. Now now that is well, no fasting will essentially right or actually help we can muscle mass development and an interesting lot of it's been done in rats, but has gone cold such panda real person has done a lot of work in rats, and I found that fostered moisten rats not on the two groups, right? We'll are at torn restricted brats. So they had one group of rats that were lead to anything around the clock. And then the head another group rats that the same amount, but within a timeframe eleven ails where we're at right now what they found was the rats that night the food within the eleven canal is quite meet but lost thirty percent body fat. And I thought I'd lose muscle, but they gained muscle in comparison to the ones that could wait whenever they wanted. So it was actually hugely beneficial to fat loss and muscle mass. Molly, minus but development now when we know rats, but with look someone told me once read studies on the Arete study until it proves what you want. And then it's bonafide study so fasting will not be a problem knows might loss. Reputa- this strength training with slow you down in want. I mean, that's been around forever strength training. True strength training recruits. Horwood a mighty units to muscle fibers higher. Order mighty units recited with fast which hell adaptation now if you try and slow the the things always been trying slow be slow on that for a minute. It's a bit muscle unit recruitment if you'll recruiting horror would amount of units with maximum intensity. If it's then there's a conversion that comes across in a perfect scenario. You would compliment your Hoy intensity strength training with some speed and pale work, and that would value add to your strength work. But string trying doesn't my dislike doesn't make him muscle bound. You know, no, thank you. We'll talk to MAC. It was good. Having you on? If you want to awesome questions for our next myth bust. Body-sized? They'll come to jump on and leave a mess. Age or just DM at forty songs on if you send it to MAC directly. We're at a controller that's up to you. If he tells us happy days, if he doesn't because he's a busy, man. You just send them to forty songs show. We don't want him on us. I go. Thanks to countable MAC. Thanks, definitely be one for you. Do people really enjoyed this loss. We did. We did it. So we have a few things entrenched in probably fuck little. But you know, we go to push the boundaries. Awesome questions so cenex go. Brooklyn. Today's podcast was brought to you by partners in fit happy and healthy. I s n utrition warehouse. Y discount fought Emmens fat bone is iron -ly Evelyn fi Mr. supplement will find a Ray title online at buddy Sohn's dot com that I you full it slash retailers. Yeah.

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"It is time to get up on an afternoon. Unlike any we have ever seen since last we spoke for hours ago. The Masters Golf's most prestigious event. Postponed Indefinitely name won the NBA continues to ponder. Its suspended season still with far more questions than there are answers at this point but while the Games have seized the business of the NFL continues and this could be one of the most important weeks. The League has seen in a very long time. We will answer as many questions as we can manage as we get up with you over the next two hours. I Mike Greenberg where you usually with you. Eight o'clock in the morning here on ESPN. We're glad that you could be with us this afternoon. We'll bring you the very latest information. These are my football insiders Dan Graziano and Mike Tannenbaum. We will get to both of them coming up shortly but the big news of this day involves Masters Golf's most prestigious event. Its first major championship of the year and it was announced shortly after we went off the air at ten eastern this morning that it will be postponed because of the corona virus outbreak that according to Augusta national officials the masters was scheduled to be played April ninth to twelfth the PGA tour previously canceled this week's Players Championship and tournament to the next three weeks. You're always hopeful For something I guess and the Masters to potentially be able to pull it off and with the amount of time that we have until then but like I said this is. This is bigger than the game of Golf I. This is now pandemic so The gentleman genevieve hope that the latest Jim. Run that great event Very Smart Mines The right precautions. I think it's a necessary step. Set need to be taking taking in regards to safety and health of not only plays But you know just the general population Obviously we need to get in front of this and and try and Make sure that you know. We don't have any setbacks going forward at people's life for dangers than we have to take the measures as a as humanity to take care of that and that's at the forefront of should be at the forefront everybody's mind it's just a small piece of what's been a very strange week for the PGA tour. You may be where they played the first round of the Players Championship on Thursday and then called off the rest of that event and now the next several weeks this is Michael Collins who covers Gulf wars and does so exceptionally well. Michael you were talking to a lot of those players. What what has been the general feeling from those you've talked to about the postponement of the Masters Surreal. Most of the guys just can't believe that it's real. They can't believe that we're not going to be going to Augusta on time. That being said the other feeling that most of the guys leaving the clubhouse today as they cleaned out their locker early for most of them is they're just happy to get back to their family quite honestly a lot of the guys that are out here are just a little bit nervous. They understand the gravity of what's going on in our world and they all look at golf as something that is not a necessity I guess is the easiest way to put it and most of the guys just are really anxious to get back to their families and be around loved ones in a time like this especially when a tournament like the masters decides to postpone itself. It's a feeling that I'm sure. Most people watching can relate to during these extraordinarily strange times. I want to play you. Something Jack. Nicholas was on Sports Center at noon today and he had this to say about the postponement of the masters. Let's play Jack. I can't see any way that they would play them later. Date I think it's just How in the world do they work it into the schedule? What wouldn't be fair at any other tournament later so I think we're probably going to miss the masters this year. That's just my opinion but I think it's a logical sense. I want to explain for those who may not fully understand what Jack Nicklaus is talking about. They're the masters was supposed to be played the week that we mentioned the second weekend in April the PGA tour generally has an event practically every week the remainder of the year. Augusta national also. Because of the weather circumstances there. They can't play event there in June July or August. And then by the end of the summer you're into the Fedex Cup which are the playoffs and all the rest of that so Michael while my first reaction to this was well. They'll find a way to play this no matter what happens as I listened to Jack that does seem to make sense to me. What do you think in a sense? Yes but in a sense it's possible yes the PGA tour had forty nine events on the schedule for this year. Yes we're going to miss some of those events but Augusta national is the masters and there would be a way in mid October. If we play the Ryder Cup for August. The national still hold the masters now it would be probably on a little bit different grass. The other thing about Augusta national is. This is a winter club it is not open during the summer. Greenie so this club just opens usually in mid in the middle October and then closes again in the middle of May and stays closed for the summer so the grass would be a little bit different because normally overseas it and the grass that we see isn't the grass. That's on that golf course during the summer so that might be a little bit. Different Zales aren't going to be in bloom in October. But the fact is if the masters could and I'm sure the PGA tour would probably be pretty accommodating to Augusta national. We could see the masters played late this year. Okay so we'll keep an eye open for that Michael Collins. I'M GONNA leave it there with you. Thank you very much in. And you've done terrific work there and we'll check in with you. I'm sure you'll be working for us throughout the weekend. Let's let's take a look here at the way. The cancellations have come so far with the postponement of the masters. We now know there will be no. Pj event played at least through mid April. The tour had previously announced the three events leading up to the masters would be cancelled and as I mentioned at the beginning of the conversation they played around one of the Players Championship on Thursday. Then we're hoping to continue that event without spectators and then subsequently decided to cancel the remainder of that and then the next three events I want to bring in our Andy North now who covers golf for us and he's a two-time. Us Open champion. You heard Andy. What Jack Nicklaus said? The masters means so much to people candidly even people. Don't don't care that much about the world of golf care so much. What do you make of Jack saying that? He thinks it's very likely we won't see the masters played at all in two thousand twenty. Well I think Jack does have a really good point but I think Michael also has a good point There there are some windows that you could possibly play the event You know this is a really tough decision. The Chairman Ridley had to make and I think it's the proper one Could you play it? Let's say the week before the Ryder Cup. But it was Michael saying you'd be playing in Bermuda. It'd be a totally different kind of grass and you need to get that grasp planet so it's ready for the April the following year. So there's there's all kinds of You know moving pieces here to have that done but if anybody can figure out how to get it done. It's the gusts the national and the masters they. They're amazing the resources they have available. There are unlike any other place. So there's a good possibility. I believe that we will see a masters this year. I fear this question may be very very inside golf. But it's something at least I'm interested in as a player. Andy just how different would it be if they were to try to play the masters in October? We all understand well. The weather would obviously be somewhat different. But how would the actual golf course before the players? Well it depends if if they plan it they open it in October After it's been reseeded and it is soft and it's wet It's not fun to play compared to how normally place because if it plays really really long play soft it the ball doesn't bounce a role much I I don't I don't know If the players would enjoy that obviously it's the masters obviously they're going to have to. My biggest concern is if you get ready to play the masters in October. How will that affect what the grass could possibly look like the next April? That would that could be a concern. Obviously they've got agronomy people all over the place can figure those kind of things out but Playing trying to get in in in in a major championship coach condition in in October Could be very difficult to do. Okay so even with that. We've probably gotten a little bit too far ahead of ourselves. Let's just focus on where we are now. Andy I'm just curious. As far as the conversations you've had with other people in and around the sport during these unprecedented times with the cancellation of the event this week and those that are coming up and now the postponement of the masters. I just wanted to. What kinds of conversations have you been having with people well Greenie? Obviously the golf is a big part. I'm really fortunate to. I'm on aboard aboard of healthcare system out in the DAKOTAS SANFORD HELP. And we've had all kinds of conversations over the last couple of weeks when you're dealing with hospitals and you're dealing with Senior Living Nursing Home type situations Those are real life things and it's been really interesting that we feel like we've gotten out ahead of. We closed all our nursing homes early in the week. We wearing allow visitors. Only one visitor per person in in hospital that they'll be scanned and really looked at very hard as they walk in the in the door I mean it's just getting ahead of it. We're creating a lab to do the test so you don't have to send them off to state labs in and you can get test back in in minutes versus days So those kind of things are being done out there and I think you know real easy to talk about all the horrible things and panic situations that we all get in and you go to grocery stores and you can't get toilet paper all those kinds of things but there's a lot of great work being done out there to make this thing Ba controllable and I truly think it is obviously. This is an issue but at the same time there are people out there working their tails off to make sure. This doesn't get out of Control Landy. I look forward to seeing you on a golf course somewhere as soon as we all possibly can. This goes without saying and thank you very much spending some time here this afternoon and we'll see you again soon. I will mention that. According to The New York Times there are roughly seventeen hundred confirmed or presumptive cases of the corona virus in the US as of now and there have been forty one fatalities due to the virus. We have a lot to do. We'll be here with you for two hours. Get up on this afternoon edition a coming up next an apology from Rudy Gobert. What is the? Nba's plan to get back on the court? Woge will have the very latest when he joins us and then the NFL draft is less than six weeks away. What are the League's plans for? One of their premier event will have as many answers as we can find for you. You're watching get up on. Espn back on a special edition of get up on this. The day the sports world stopped or I should say the day after Mr. According to the New York Post as we bring you the latest from the world of sports and how it's being impacted by the corona virus in the NBA. Of course yesterday all star Donovan. Mitchell became the second player on the Utah. Jazz to test positive for the virus joining teammate Rudy. Gobert we'll go at the arena. In Oklahoma City on Wednesday Mitchell was a uniform and would have played had the game. Not Been Postponed Go. Bare himself posted a statement on instagram yesterday. I'll read it to you in part. I have gone through so many emotions since learning of my diagnosis mostly fear anxiety and embarrassment. First and most important thing. I'd like to apologize publicly to the people that may have endangered. At the time I had no idea I was even infected. I was careless and make no excuse. I hope my story serves as a warning and causes everyone to take this seriously meanwhile NBA Commissioner Adam silver was on inside the NBA on TNT last night further explaining the NBA's plans going forward. This hiatus will be most likely at least thirty days. I mean it. And we don't know enough as Vol said to be more specific specific map but we wanted to give direction to our players and teams into our fans that this is going to be roughly at least a month. This literally changes hour by hour in terms of what we know so it was really a moment for us to step back take a breath ensure that everyone in the community with safe and healthy and doing everything they needed to do to care for for families and then let them give some time to deliberate and figure out if there's a way that we can resume playing at some point now even if row for months even out for six weeks we could still restart the season you know. It might mean that then. The finals take place in July or late July. Just my feeling was it was it was. It was way premature to suggest that we have lost the season. Essentially saying all options remain to some degree on the table. Here's our NBA insider extraordinary drian origin. Hausky it wo- do we just heard there from the Commission. And what is the latest? You're hearing from inside the NBA. Well teams are really looking for direction from the League office in how they're going to proceed during this hiatus in terms of You know players and workouts at their facilities. How that's going to look Moving forward here the rest of the month you have players who are in some cases quarantined coming off of either obviously the two players with the jazz but others who've been exposed to them and then opponents who have been getting tested and so you know the league kind of did it take inventory over the next day see if there are any more positive tests not just among players but staff and and other people around organizations and and they have to exist like every other industry every other person in this country not right now in context to what is happening with the virus outside the walls of their organizations because at the end of the day you know the NBA like every other sport like every other businesses at the mercy of how this plays out in a broader sense and our country. And that's why there's so much uncertainty. There's nobody who has a sense of. They wish it could be four weeks or six weeks. They don't know that that's fair. I I did see a note from you that you have some news. Today involving the Players Association that I thought was very interesting. I'd love you to pass that along. The Players Association sent a memo to the League's players today with a few different items. But one thing in their you know reminding them. And in some cases alerting them to the fact that there is a provisioned and the collective bargaining agreement. It's called force majeure that in situations of extraordinary happenings whether it is war natural disasters and in this case there is one provision in there for an epidemic that could allow or or give the league in teams an ability to not have to honor a percentage of players contracts based on how many games have been played so there has been no discussion between the League and the Players Association League and owners haven't brought this up but they were just reminding the players that there is a provision place in the CBA. That if this season is lost that owners if they wanted could try and trigger based on the fact that you know they are out right now because of a pandemic okay. Yeah again important to point out no reason to believe that there are any plans along those lines now but worth knowing that the NBA Players Association with leading its players. Know wonderful as always. Thank you so much for this and we will certainly stay close to you as we go so that is the very latest can be now to the NFL because while the Games have ceased everywhere it seems the business of the NFL. And it's very important for the most part continues now. The League did cancel their annual meeting which was scheduled to be held the end of this month in West Palm Beach as a result of the pandemic for the NFL. It trying to push forward with some crucial upcoming dates. Take a look at this. This is all still scheduled as we speak tomorrow night. Eleven fifty nine eastern as call at midnight to be to make it easier. The voting for the collective bargaining agreement will close then Monday at eleven fifty. Nine am so essentially noon. That's the new deadline. For teams to apply either the franchise or transition tags and that would be determined by whether or not the vote goes thumbs up or thumbs down then the negotiating period talk to potential free agents opens right after that all leading towards start of the New Year the new league year which is Wednesday at four o'clock eastern time and with Dan Grazziano. On Mike Tannenbaum here. Dan I turn to you immediately as we speak. All plans are for that to stoop to remain in place at the newly gear and thus the signing of free agents including we would presume. Tom Brady is still scheduled for next Wednesday as we speak and with the disclaimer. That things are changing at a rapid pace all over the place. Yes that remains the plan as of now. I'm being told that the League has no plans to change the start of the league year. Now you saw the players association vote. The results of the Players Association. Vote tomorrow night if that after that happens could they reassess possibly but at this point that is not their plan all right. Mike Tannenbaum again as general manager for a long time. Give us a sense during these unprecedentedly. Strange Times if you're running a football organization this becomes a critical time. What is going on in those offices as teams are preparing for this yeah. It's this really weird juxtaposition. Because you don't want to miss what's going on in the world right now which is truly unprecedented and once you're assured that everybody is safe within reason either directly or indirectly within the organization. You quickly turn your attention to. These are critical decisions. That's going to affect your franchise for this year greedy and maybe for years to come and you don't want to be at a competitive disadvantage and I think the key for us to watch is Sunday as Dan has pointed out. We'll know Saturday about the but I would expect. Roger Goodell dismiss the head of the Players Association to get a room on Sunday and say what's best collectively for the sport because I think optics are at play here. Which is if we start negotiations at Monday at noon. We're talking about huge contracts especially if the CBA is signed by marquee players and with what's going on in our country right now. I don't think that's a good look for anybody so I think front officers have to be prepared to go because they can't be trying to pursue Tom Brady. And our competitors are and they're not ready to go but I also think realistically they have to be prepared that maybe we pause the other piece of this. Of course. The date that we know is on the schedule is the draft which is always held in late April. That is supposed to be in Las Vegas this year. We've all seen that's become an event where literally hundreds of thousands of people gather. It's hard to picture that taking place. Where do we stand right now as far as the draft? They're discussing other plans for how to hold the draft. There will be a draft. They will select players and assign them to teams. But it may have to be done remotely may have to be done over the phone. The idea of a large gathering like we've seen in the draft in years past recent years is mentioned kind of inconceivable. This point now. Six weeks away could something drastic change in the meantime. I think the League's holding out that hope but it doesn't seem likely and Mike I'll come back to you again on on the way. This process will work. This is usually something where you're flying guys in for meetings and physicals all the rest of that that process obviously is going to be impacted by this. How will it affect teams draft preparation? I think for the most part virtually you can handle it. Be facetime skype. The one x factor. And we talked about this this morning. It's time ago the very interesting prospect from the University of Alabama who has a big hip injury. Typically you would go back to Indianapolis in early April. For what we call the indy recheck so for the physical standpoint and most notably so like to. You're going to have to either get on a plane to see him or fly him in but beyond that. I think you can handle most of these things. Virtually just to make sure everyone is clear on this including myself any team that would consider drafting a player like him would normally their own doctors would examine him. He has. It's not just some link at a point in Indianapolis Multiple Times. These are tenure decision. So you want your own doctors to reexamine them. Where's the progress with the hip? And I think that's something that they're going to have to figure out either. They're going to have to go to see him or somehow they're going to have to maybe India again but that's the one factor that we don't know it's important. Things are still happening in the national football league and we'll continue to cover the meanwhile here coming up why didn't the NC Double A. Postpone its NCWA tournament rather than cancelling it and watch it happen to the student athletes. Who lost out on a year of eligibility? We'll talk about that and much more on the decision to postpone the masters. We'll get reaction. From Scott Van Pelt. He will join us. Live as we continue. You're watching an afternoon edition of on. Espn we're back on an afternoon edition. Get up with a look at the impact of the corona viruses had across the sports landscape. Much of this happening yesterday. The NHL suspended season due to the virus. There are still three and a half weeks remaining in their regular season so they are on hold indefinitely. The National Football League meanwhile cancelled its annual meeting that was scheduled to be held in Florida in late. March still has no plan to move the start of the League era as we just discussed here which is set for next Wednesday at four o'clock in the afternoon as through Major League Baseball. They will delay the start to their season by at least two weeks. The League is also suspended spring training. This will be the first delay to the start of the regular season since one thousand nine hundred ninety five the NCAA basketball tournaments. Both men's women's have been cancelled putting an abrupt end of the season less than a month before champions were to be crowned and then earlier this morning. Gusta national officials announced that the Masters Tournament Golf's first major of the year. We'll be postponed because of the corona virus outbreak. Earlier here on sportscenter. Jack Nicklaus talked about the masters. I can't see any way that they would. You know play later date. I think it's just how in the world do they work it into the schedule. It wouldn't be fair at any other tournament this later so I think we're probably going to miss the masters this year. That's just my opinion but I think it's a makes logical sense. That was the greatest masters champion of the Mall of Jack Nicholas. This van Pelt joins us and of course you know him from sportscenter all these years and you also know him from leading the coverage of golf here on. Espn for a very long time. So Scott what what do you think of Jack said there? He does not think they will be able to figure out a way to get the masters played this year. What do you think I tend to agree with Jack in? And it's not so much greenie matter of the schedule. I don't think because frankly they they if they say this is the date. We'd like to play. I have to think the Gulf War would turn up there. Regardless of what the PGA tour schedule was not that they would want to trample the PGA. Tour I just think if you if the GUS national said listen we we can try to squeeze it in on this date I. I'm certain if it were a choice of one event that everyone who was invited to the master's play there the bigger issues that there's a very small window. The debt. Golf course is exactly the way they want it to be. I closes down in the summertime and any renovation work that they do goes on in the fall. It's it's not. It's just not the course that they would want to present for the competition. So there's a finite number of days and weeks available In a calendar year. In my estimation where it would work. I don't think it's a matter so much of the of the calorie or as as a whole as much as it's just their particular calendar year at Augusta National. I just don't know that there's enough time Unless they wanted to do it a week or two after I just buy bigger. Got Green is if they're saying this if they're canceling or postponing. I should say now this far out with the resources they have at their disposal. That's ominous to me. Because they must be getting Intel from from really good sources that this is going to still awfully bad. That and that's my concern. Has I think that's a reasonable assumption to make Scott. We'll see what winds up happening with the massive. Here's what I want to ask you. You know I've known you for twenty years and I think American sports fans by and large. I've been going to sleep with you now. If you will forgive the expression for quite some time and I I would like to hear how people would like to hear how you're processing all that we are seeing as all these cancellations and postponements and everything else have taken place. Here's someone who I think. People are interested in hearing from what thoughts are going through your mind when you have a moment away from covering all this. I'm lost I'm lost in order for better or for worse. My life has been defined by sports my entire existence Mike my youth growing up playing it That brief window of time when I thought someday I'd be the one that they were talking about on TV and then quickly realized that it's not the case To what I've been lucky enough to do for all these years Both at the Golf Channel and now for twenty years at ESPN. They've framed my existence. And they give me My family gives me purpose and meaning but they give me something to do and I pour myself into this with great passion and interest and I tweeted something out today at noon on championship Friday and I don't know what to do and how much I mean. Not Trying to be dramatic. I've just stating a fact. I haven't got a clue what to do and from a professional standpoint. I mean I don't know what I'm going to do. I don't think we have some ideas of things we might be able to do. That might really be cool to shine a light on some who've had their seasons Ended and I think that might be fun but I'm just I'm at a loss. Obviously my greater concern is for our country and the hopes that this isn't some truly debilitating wheel stopping moment but it feels like we're heading in that direction and so I'm not frightened I think ultimately will will prevail. And we'll be all right but in the short term just as far as the lack of sports go. I don't have a clue what it is. I meant to do and And it's a really odd odd feeling being on the air the other night green going up to a fill in between two games and then being on live uninterrupted for an hour and change as this was happening around us one of the more surreal or being overused but one of the more surreal moments of my professional life. I nothing is is close to that And obviously what? We're going to experience now in the next weeks and months we've never dealt with that either now. This is something I don't think anyways are you. Don't prepare for this. They don't teach a book how you should go about handling circumstances like these if there's one thing as I've watched all of this most of the athletes that we cover the professional athletes we'll get more opportunities to play. I had a conversation with Tom. Izzo this morning about the seniors on his team who will not get a chance to play. All those athletes who spring sports who seasons didn't even begin. I'm about to have Sean Farnum on here and we'll talk this but I wonder what your thoughts are on this notion that perhaps the NCAA should figure out some way to give all of the kids who were affected by this. The young people who were affected by this a chance to get another year of eligibility. That's something I'd be strongly in favor of. What do you think of it? I love it I love it in. Theory I don't have a great deal of faith in the NCWA's ability to manage the bureaucracy. That would come with that because the and this gets a bit in the weeds. But all right say you've got a senior who decides he wants to stay but you've recruited someone who's going to come in and then it becomes a scholarship question with the incidentally ease scholarship restrictions would the kid that was going to come in for the graduating seniors. Still want to come at senior was going to be there. I mean there are a lot of moving parts but those are problems that you could hopefully handle logistically down the road. Philosophically for that person for Cassius Winston For Anthony Cowan at Maryland for anybody who this was their last ride and they didn't even get that forty minutes to compete. That's just crushing for everybody. I'm Christopher Anthony Grant Dayton. They met team. I mean I'm crushed. Everybody whose whose hopes and dreams for the one bid leagues all of them and so if the AA was able to see clear to give a path for those that wanted one more shot at this to come back. Yes I'm all for it. I just I think Sean could speak to well. Also the the logistical challenge in the scholarship. Issue would be something that would be a hurdle to clear down the road to get him in here on that on that note. Van P thanking my man. It's good to talk to you and we'll talk again under more pleasant circumstances and let's get Sean Farnum right in on that note and I'd like to preface it by saying that we're talking about a lot of other athletes that you've never heard of before we're talking about baseball and softball and gymnastics and all these other spring sports many of which didn't even their season to get a chance to begin golf and others and of course we will focus on the NCAA basketball tournaments. Because those were about to. Sean just pick up the conversation there. I'm sure you could hear what Scott was saying. What what are your thoughts? Big Picture first and foremost on the idea that we should find a way to get another year of eligibility for the athletes who did not get a chance to compete or get a chance to finish as we were sitting on sportscenter set for a majority of yesterday that this was something that we started talking about then at that point in time and and I think it's it's a phenomenal idea. I think it is something that can be executed and I think it's important to remember some of these seniors in a probably a majority of these seniors might not take that option up because they're going to have options to go whether it beats the NBA or go play professionally overseas. And there's GonNa be some simply say you know what? My time is common. Although I did not get that. Ncwa tournament that. I was hoping to get my senior year. I'm going to go start my professional life and I'm gonNA move forward But there will be some that would want to partake in this and I think when you you look at teams that were senior. Laden groups this year In Particular East Tennessee State University. I think there's a couple of guys on there that maybe don't have that clear path to the professional ranks. That would would wanNA come back for one more. I think the teams like Byu at seven seniors were nationally ranked for the first time in nine years. I think that there would be a couple of them. At least that would wanNA come back. I think you'll each child's probably wanted. I think he'd WanNa go make money and be professional basketball player because that door is open for him And then I think. There's other guys like nate sestina Who was a graduate transfer from Bucknell to Kentucky and look his Grad Program is more than one year and this would give him an opportunity to finish out his his master's degree And allow him to experience the NCAA tournament that he missed this year with Kentucky wildcats team so I it goes at all levels. Whether it's it's a it's a grad transfer like nate at a traditional powerhouse. Or It's a smaller school that had a tremendous season. That was hoping to capitalize on that. And again I think this could be used for all sports. Women's gymnastics exact same philosophy as far as I'm concerned That opens up a door to allow them to a further their education which we're talking about student. Athletes were always told. It's about the student athlete. This gives them another opportunity to further get masters degrees and move forward towards that but it also allows that athletic component that seemingly has been taken away at least at the championship level for all of the winter sport athletes and then pretty much season wide for a majority of the spring athletes. Right now. I think it's a great moment for the NC double a. to evaluate these unreal circumstances. That were were were dealing with right now and make an unprecedent decision for that. Equals the situation that we're living in and as we look on our screen there you see all those different sports and I'm thinking of all of those athletes again. The ones who don't get to play on television whose names you don't know very quickly you heard van bring up the notion that there will be bureaucracy involved. Most people don't know exactly what that would entail. I've got roughly sixty seconds here. The waters some of the hurdles. That would have to be jumped in order for something like that realistically to happen. Well you'd have to extend out beyond the scholarship limit and that would also have to mandate that the NCW would probably have to financially support. Some of the scholarships That you'd be adding to certain teams insert definitely certain levels of different programs to the other aspect that I think you've gotta look at Greenie Is What Scott was talking about is is when there are freshmen. That are coming in and they thought they were replacing somebody if somebody comes back and fills that position can you make that player immediately eligible to go somewhere else. Should they make that decision? And I think these are all things that are very easy. You need to have guidelines and a central voice would really help in. I in streamlining all of this In particular men's basketball and women's basketball But again I I am in full support of of this idea and I and I think it would be the right. Move to make this. These are extraordinary circumstances if there was a way to make it work as best as possible for the largest number of people. There has to be a way to figure out to do John Farnum. Thank you my friend. And we'll see you back here soon as soon as we can get you here in the meantime we'll continue with this special afternoon. Edition of. How realistic is it for? Major League Baseball started season in April. We'll ask that question to buster only when he joins us and then some of the NFL's bigger stars have been openly against the new collective bargaining agreement. But you'll her one who thinks now they have to accept it and you'll hear why as we continue watching on. Espn back on an afternoon edition of. Get up. Major League Baseball announced yesterday opening day has been delayed at least two weeks from its original March. Twenty sixth start date and spring training has been suspended this impacts minor league baseball as well minor league baseball announcing that they will delay the start of the twenty twenty championship season and announcement on the twenty twenty season. We'll be made at a later date. So they will wait and see and it's also impacting baseball on the college level the NCW on Thursday cancelled all remaining winter and spring NCWA championships including the college world series. Here's some reaction for things that just Up in cancel all at once. It seems like these past few days. it's a little alarming and definitely a weird feeling but Yeah I think The proper precautionary measures right now. I think it's Responsible In light of obviously what's going on it's You know obviously we're all excited about getting this season going and guys prepare in but you know for the players. Major League baseball to understand the gravity of this and a lot of it is because of the unknown. Here's buster only with the latest on what we do. And don't know we know that the season will begin on time buster. That's one of the few things. We know with certainty. What is next for the players as they wait for that season to begin? Greenie today team spent a lot of times meeting with their players trying to give them updates. Yesterday was a conference call with Major League Baseball with the front offices. So they're passing word onto the players generally speaking. They're hoping that the players stay in place. At these spring training sites they remain there and continue to work out in some form or fashion. Now I think if they're players who were concerned about family members and felt like they had to leave if they had a grandparent a parent that they felt like they needed to help. The teams would understand that but generally speaking. They want to keep the players in place because they feel like. That's the best chance to control any sort of infections. I give us a sense. Buster for the fans who are looking at this. What challenges are Major League Baseball facing right now as they hope to get their season started? We presume as soon as they reasonably can now greeny. You guys have been talking about this. Let's say this is not a decision being made by Major League Baseball in a vacuum they essentially are being compelled by events for example from what I understand an important part of the decision to cancel the rest of the spring. Training was the fact that the state of Florida in four Major League Baseball. Look we WANNA limit any large crowd gatherings over two hundred and fifty people so that went into baseball decision to cancel the exhibition season and then last night the state of Illinois came out and they suggested along with the city Chicago that they would also try to limit the large crowd gatherings of more than two hundred and fifty people perhaps as late as May first so major league baseball is going to have to assess all that see what the impact is on the individual team see how many teams are affected and perhaps move some games. Look people around baseball. Today are speculating that perhaps the season won't start until we get into may only with the very latest on the world of baseball. Stay safe my friend and we will see you again as soon as we can with the very latest on all of this as we make our trip around all the different sports here and of course from the National Football League. That would be no game scheduled now anyway but the business of the sport does continue and as far as actual sports news. This is where the most important stuff continues to happen because tomorrow night is the deadline for players to vote thumbs up or down on the new collective bargaining agreement. And then Monday. We've been talking about this for weeks. Monday is the day that franchise tag would be assessed by teams and legal tampering period. That negotiation period will begin and then Wednesday. The new league year starts when they can actually start signing free agents. And we'll take you behind our scenes here for a moment when I was talking to. Scott Van Pelt. Tangas got up looking at his phone and ran out the door. You have some new news. What can you tell us that the NFL sent a memo to all teams head coaches GM's and player personnel directors and it will prohibit all in person visits with draft prospects so no more pro days. You can't have a prospect into your facility effective at the end today They'll only be able to communicate with draft prospects via telephone or video conference and they're limited to three of those per week and none of them can last more than one hour they all have to be reported to the League when they are done so the league coming in now and instructing teams as opposed to leaving it up to them. No you cannot travel to see draft prospect. No you cannot have them at your facility. Everything has to be done remotely help us understand what this means my town about. It's really it's unprecedented. This is the time of year where prospects are coming into the facilities. Where you're cleaning up things about how they learn their physicals. You're trying to make big decisions. These are critical visits likewise sometimes you want to go out yesterday. We saw Justin Herbert's pro. Oftentimes you would have coaches out just in Herbert on day. One someone like Jordan. Love The quarterback prospect at Utah State on day two. This will be consequential in how they go about making decisions. The other thing that comes to mind Greenie is this. We're on the precipice of free agency. I it's inconceivable to me that we're sending here at two forty five east coast time Friday in New York with free and about to begin next Monday from a negotiation standpoint that how will the legal veteran free agents to get on planes on Wednesday when saying that college prospects can't go on planes this Friday so to me. This is the tip of the iceberg. And something's going to be addressed about free agency which is just a couple of days away. I will come back to you on the same question again as we speak. And this is as fluid as anything has ever been. There are no plans to change any of the timing on this again. The voting deadline for the players tomorrow night the franchise tags on Monday and the new season. They got a new league year. I should say which means free agency open on Wednesday. What's coming out of the League office right now? As as of now there are no plans to change the start of the league year now. Mike has a theory. And it's probably a good one that it could happen on Sunday after the Players Association. Vote on the is complete. And if I'm the NFL right now. Even if I were considering pushing back the start of the League your I would not want to do anything today or tomorrow that would affect or influence or further. Delay that vote. So it's possible. We find that out Sunday but as of now everyone is saying no plans to push back. The start of the players will vote. Voting will conclude eleven fifty nine. Pm Tomorrow night. How quickly do they know which way the vote went right away right away? I don't know if we'll know but they will know th there's an independent accounting firm tabulating the vote so the NFL. Pa says they're not tracking votes as they come in but they expect to have a yes or no moments after the voting. So I will ask you an incredibly complicated question. I grant you that ahead of time. But how will that determined the way things go forward from there in your mind? You could see it going one way or the other on the vote. How will that impact? What happened Sunday Monday? Tuesday and Wednesday. I think it's very simple. Greenie as Partners D Smith Roger. Goodell get in a room as custodians of the sport knowing what's going on in our world right now and saying now at least we know what the rules are we either. This is on the precipice of ten year extension. Or we're going into maybe the last year but at least we know what the rules are. Now what's best for everybody and again we've talked about this before the big x factor to me is the unusual dynamic. May Be the players pushing for delay. Because again if I'm Tom Brady if I'm Dak Prescott. We just saw some of these players have done around the league in terms of donating money to some of these hourly employees that being really affected by this. It's hard for me to think that Tom Brady. And those SORTA players want to go out there and get these huge contracts with everything else being on pause right now entirely possible that that optics concerns over optics could rule the day. The the flip side is you can do free agency without in. I mean you have to do the physical physicals right. Bright is the big but you could agree to contracts with. I mean you do see it done without visits so it's not inconceivable the. Nfl could do this next week but as of now. They're saying they still plan to just after that. Could you imagine the chaos that if we go to that where you agree to a contract with play wrecks on Wednesday and a month for now they come in and failure physical then what happens now and I'm also thinking of the Year of the lockout so twenty eleven They did not hold free agency. The new league year did not start until they reach terms on a new collective bargaining agreement. Which came after the draft so as opposed to and. That's the way they do it in the NBA. They have the draft and they have free agency in the NFL. They do it in the reverse but there is precedent for it so if they wanted to delay free agency until after the draft. They could. They've done it before and it seemed to work out fine. That was a lockout situation where players weren't right. Worked LEAGUE WASN'T ALLOWED TO CONDUCT BUSINESS? This would obviously be look. I was a general manager that year. It was different. We got through it and I think from a team perspective again guys if all thirty two teams are going through at the same way. It's okay we'll continue to try and figure this out as we go forward. That is the one sport where the big news does continue to cut. Meanwhile from golf it was big news today. The masters has never been played outside of March or April. That's going to change coming up. We'll they played at all. We'll go in search of that answer watching get up on ESPN.

Masters National Football League League Golf NBA ESPN Scott Van Pelt Major League Baseball baseball Jack Nicklaus Jack Augusta Tom Brady Players Association basketball Michael Collins Mike Tannenbaum Mike Jack Nicholas Masters Golf
150: Cracking the Code to the  Fitness Business  with Nick Shaw of Renaissance Periodization

Entrepreneur Stories for Inspiration: Millionaire Interviews

57:46 min | 1 year ago

150: Cracking the Code to the Fitness Business with Nick Shaw of Renaissance Periodization

"So a really interesting story at least my mind people wanna think about overnight successes guess what like Twenty Fifteen Twenty sixteen even in two thousand seventeen we ever went to bed at night without answering every single content always thinking more south just talking to someone yesterday can come up with I think we have about twenty six coaches that goes along with myself and my wife and then we have a couple of other full-time people in terms the six registered dieticians as coaches on staff so really anything in the fitness sector health wellness losing weight gaining weight eating performance recently we have switched to becoming more of a software company and we are creating a diet Akzo the APP is a diet coach in your pocket basically if you need to know how April so that's where we're at and where you look at it I live in Charlotte North Carolina and ironically lived in New York City for about six in all of our collective work from the past five or six years and put everything into an APP and we are super excited for that and this was most recently just released in important to talk about the idea so awesome because everything that I was doing digital I'm like I don't need to be here of customer service about four to six part time customer service people all in total we're looking at about forty or so people kind of through various things commonly known as our peace strength online we are a diet and training company so we produce online diet and training programs and more can work anywhere in the world I used to go to bodybuilding dot com and the forms way back in the day totally okay yeah sure yeah I'm one of those guys two years before that but I'm actually in New York City today while we're doing this what are New York City or today a little kind of work vacation I guess so to speak so also he went to a dinner event on Monday babysitters looking for people that produce content in the health and wellness space and that's what our company does really well we have twenty you get done on these type of business trips it's kind of a part vacation part business trip so just kind of a meet and greet somebody that I know he's a personal trainer in the city no some Eddie Doctor Mike Israel writing training programs for close friends family things like that and now kind of looking back we have a team of about forty people so it's pretty cool I've been sorta over the Hump for about five years in a row now so that's really cool twenty fifteen was the first year and seen pretty good growth in this year is a little bit of a transition year twin what to eat to reach specific goals whether you want to lose fat gained Muscle Improve Your score performance that is what the RPM up is set up to do and basically has taken disappear for a few days few meetings and stuff like that I've only been back I think a couple times in the four or five years since I left the city but always going to be back so yet okay hey everybody this is Nick Shaw I am thirty one years old and Iran Renaissance Period Ization them are consultants to ninety nine so those are most of our coaches because a lot of them also have fulltime jobs were their professors researchers with one doctor on these people on that what do you mean about as tinder I'm just curious it's funny that you happen to be back there I thought you originally old usually linked in and says New York New York but yeah just curious after I can do some of that stuff and then they consult with us working with a lot of our clients it's a really good mix grown pretty fast and it's really the company started it was just me conditioning into this model of the subscription model with the APP drill interesting really exciting and that's kind of where we're at now you said it gets forty people can apart time imagine a because kind of getting away from our base diet templates which have been most popular product there's kind of like a one time purchase of one hundred dollars to their pdf and were for all that good stuff we have experts in this face that can help you all that yes you just brush on I was gonna how big's your company and how much do in revenue last year this is actually really interesting can realize that we can only do so much work if there's only a couple of people doing one on one stuff in that let us down the track to producing more digital content whether it's e books and then ultimately led into our diet templates at any given time we probably have let's say a couple of thousand clients doing like one on one coaching but the real thing that Kinda leads you are explosive growth a little bit it was the digital products and if you're only one person doing one on one coaching let's say you have one hundred clients or so and that's quite a few for anyone individual and what we realized was natural evolution of RPM in how it kind of evolved from where I was as a trainer in New York City six seven years ago to now it's all part of the scaling up process and eager fulltime or whatever but as far as clients how many customers you end up helping can you give us some numbers around that yeah sure actually one on one coaching clients so this is kind of part of the end up doing this because again just doing something totally different kind of seems I mean obviously it's all within the same space but you got to start thinking differently in order to start this type accompany totally again ironically I'm in wait stuff like that so he does and all of a sudden our reach grew exponentially so we went from maybe a couple hundred clients two thousand or two two let's have helped hundreds of thousands of people worldwide this kind of like two different skill sets as far as if you're a trainer and you're going in meeting these people I would imagine even a trainer only having maybe it's kind of take that process that we do we'll walk through somebody a three-month Diet they WANNA lose ten fifteen pounds that costs like five or six hundred dollars roughly and we created the STA template it was about one hundred dollars and it's all sort of designed up fronts in the user go to our website customizes a few things basically know their gender their weight their goal if they WANNA lose weight Gain York City right now but it all started when I was in New York City and we were training people one on one in a head to travel all over the city knowing uptown downtown across town clash even some training online to digital products and ultimately to the APP so it's been a really cool evolution over the years and here we are with the APP which can reach in the APP stores Ultimate Eddie and you can help two to three times a number of people via online coaching and so that was basically breakthrough in my mind saying well it's a lot more scalable that's where the direction instead of in person trainer maybe that numbers like twenty or thirty years or whatever it is fifty like you said that's crazy number of clients have in person maybe a double that doing online but even then we all this crazy stuff working with clients one on one and it was pretty quickly kind of realize hey this isn't the best use of my time let's say charred hundred dollars an hour but you have the realized that our time was going to be better spent doing out a way to scale that process even further and so that led us down the track of doing the digital products whether they're early hundreds of thousands millions of people that sounds like a perfect transition for you if your buddy's going back to school he kind of has this online business and then you can kinda work with him and try to figure this out fifty clients are so that would seem like a lot to me but then to make it an online digital product kind of like you're saying seems like a total different mindset how'd you get your arms around this antibody who had been in a city with me starting his PhD at East Tennessee State University and he was working with a lot of clients mine and he couldn't keep up with that demand because it clients with at eight clients takes ten to twelve hours because you're traveling over the city so I quickly realized hey this is not the best use of my time and I need to figure out a different way to do this and at the same time the time is is I opening experience because instead of eight clients a day one hundred dollars an hour all of a sudden you can take several of those hours state home not have to travel over also you have to walk the walk and talk talk combining the education and sort of the real world experience. I'm always sceptical anything it's not my fault I did think it's just looks than ultimately the Diet templates and then even more recently the Diet APSOS have natural evolution from in Person Training to one diet coaching online instead of hiring brokers and things like that they hired mathematicians PhD's and all that and so that's kind of model that we wanted to have it are p was sort of just having trainers that AH industry rate totally man it's so crazy because anyone and again they don't have to have any qualifications there's no monitoring really in space right look at parks or you know they just have expect APPs but they don't have any qualifications or education again almost all of our coaches have PhD's or they're also headed of athletes themselves album twenty thirty minutes downtown you gotta walk a few minutes to the gym have to pay the gym x number of dollars to use their space to train your client then you have to go back up town yeah he's now we just got my arpey strength yeah that's like our main interim handle instagram's has been a great thing for us because the fitness space is just so well suited for fitness and kind of showing certain industries that you start hearing about like fitness I recently interviewed a guy who was doing Amazon. FDA where you can sell stuff on Amazon and that whole market to is like do results in losing a month later you know gaining weight or improving performance in the gym all that good stuff so yeah everyone's just Kinda knows us our strength because that's our instagram and also the people that many did not have the best genetics or something and have gotten really good results right so if someone just naturally has really genetics that may not mean that they really know what they're doing in his head and so that's where we did start ahead and then after that you can getting into the online coaching as sort of the same model fear one coach she'll see have hundred clients now in which really stands out in the fitness because I don't know how much you know about the fitness space but there's just so many people trying to do their own thing and everyone's their own diet coach or ovals take the Olympics or something like that you need to be genetically gifted also you need that science based approach where you're really going above and beyond to try to figure out what actually I trainer or all that and so this really good way for us to stand out in an already crowded market committee idea of we don't want some of that might just look the part will you have to kind of look the part yeah totally and that's one of these things start to get a little bit more mainstream companies kind of changed their names are just shorten it right yeah our fitness does sound much easier that would kind of thanks a lot of people make mistakes along the way but it's how quickly can you recognize them how can you quickly solve them and how quickly adapted change and so I think our story is really need zero in school to get his PhD and he's like well hey you know this stuff as well as I do why don't you start taking some of my clients will create a business that was really the start of it but at the when you have these people with crazy genetics and the also start using an evidence based scientific approach to Diet and training like how much better results beat again a lot of people don't think that so you just have to be really careful until I actually think it's really good thing you are skeptical because that's sort of my natural approach to an I hear things is I'm going to be skeptical I'm going to try to critically examine it's really interesting for me because we started our P it wasn't really something that we thought was necessarily going to take off there's just something that we really passionate about there's something that we really liked doing I think a lot of people start out with the mindset that have everything figured out years in advance when they get started mess not necessarily always the case right so read a lot about different entrepreneurs suggest I want to go back to kind of how you got started and whatnot I think we've got at least a basic understanding of your business but I'm just curious why did you actually WanNa do that interview here really good analogy that our customer service rep made and I thought it was just absolutely brilliant is kind of comparing our situation right now when gps I came out so naturally you probably have a lot of in that we have this natural evolution process along the way of course we've made a lot of mistakes everyone does and so we've been able to be like Oh hey here's what works here's what doesn't work in how can we just like some people are successful in spite of what they do so you really have to kind of sit down and think about it but yeah that's kind of something that we've always wanted to do in it goes back to our days working out at random of those things where France has period as a mouthful but it also has a pretty good story behind it because there's hedge fund here in Long Island called renaissance technologies in so what they do is people that want to stick with using a map so we'll maps of always been around so it's just what people are you still whereas now this new technology GPS has come out and it seems really cool but maybe gems here in New York City we'd see these people just blessed with amazing genetics and we've kind of look at what they're doing really doesn't make any sense into our thought process was pivot along the way basically to make sure we're headed on the right track and be almost easy for us selling these digital products these e books templates to just kind of be if somebody sketchy stuff in there that almost brings down the whole intrigue and the same thing can happen with fitness but we did our research and we came across through youth through like one of your on Forbes attack the subway up to take the subway up back up to a different client let's say you can have five six eight clients are so max whether a hundred dollars a day or something like that if you're a hundred dollars an hour wind business management tool that organizes your client communications bookings contracts and invoices and it's all in one place honey book makes it simple to run your business better professional templates e signatures and built an automation keeps everything on track and makes you look is they are getting results or they're very naturally gifted so they don't really care they can do whatever they want so a good results it's really combining to and it's like you want to compete at the highest he liked diet and training really anything related to that liked helping people for me it's like well how can I sort of share this experience where we took something we're really passionate about and sort of feared it out along the way that's honey brook dot com for slash millionaire support for today's episode comes from Ruby I believe that they read article about you so yeah we reach out that way but yeah it's hard you've got to really do research for some of those people I'm sure you see it every day of all the stuff that you have to deal with to doing it all but if you're struggling to get through your to do list honey brook can help when you started your business did you dream about it's the number one choice for client and business management for freelancers amd business owners save time and do more of what you love with honey book all set work great no doubt about it in almost a little bit scary to move away from that because they're so proven they've been around for four plus years now to this new technology balls to taking messages in answering Faq's booking appointments and capturing lead an intake information rubies get your back they're friendly in right now honey book is offering our listeners fifty percent off when you visit honey book dot Com slash millionaire payments professional receptionist and chat specialist is an extension of your team giving the appearance of being in your office they create great first impressions for the first time customers the live virtual receptionist and twenty four seven live chat service dedicated to helping small business owners like you grow their businesses from answering and transferring co in it and be like well this person like yeah they looked the part but it's usually something where you look in a person you say okay well they looked apart let's say but have they also coached intent but we're not content we're always thinking more of the long term they can will hey where we're going to be three to five years from now and the answer to that is just probably not these digital templates help you build loyalty and repeat business with high touch personalized service based on your instructions learn why more than ten thousand business owners choose Ruby tried be risk free with their twenty one day money back guarantee just call eight six six six one one seven eight to nine today or visit it's flexible and the promotion applies whether you pay monthly or annually so good honey book dot com slash millionaire for fifty percents off your first year all those admin task like drafting proposals and contracts and tracking down payments if that wasn't part of your vision you need honey book punny book is in Hall Baby Dot Com forward slash millionaire to get started and if you're looking for more information about Ruby receptionists be sure to tune into episode one forty seven early again it's our job just keep making the APP so much better than are paper templates that everyone just kind of naturally gravitates towards that everyone uses EPS on the phone now recently is the automatic customer and just kind of reiterates that most companies if you can figure out a way to have subscription revenue model and there's almost no good reason you can even consolidate services you already use like quickbooks Google Suite Excel and mail chimp or even g mail there's GonNa be some bumps along the way that's just the way software works which is really interesting sidetracked going down the software development front just how long everything takes but again it's just kind of go ahead and just jump to the beginning I know again talked about how you kind of took it over when your buddy went to college everything but why don't we just start chronological and find out year by year all the gains over time it's going to win out over FM am radio because it just makes more sense as digital people can get it wherever they want whenever they want so it's just easier versus like you're saying you can still use your where I interviewed the founder Jill Nelson I mean even if you WanNa take the GPS thing a little bit further I guess everyone was is truly how arpey got started to super organic we both moved out to New York City after we graduated to become personal trainers we worked at the same gym he stayed for year the even at a time where you calling renaissance period ization yeah yeah long named people are like well what the heck does that mean whatever so yeah I agree that's what I was GONNA ask about next interesting analogy and I think now almost no one uses maps right do you ever use a map anymore I most certainly don't I'm always gps my phone blown up Google maps or whatever and but if you're into lifting in your in the gym and you see someone else that sort of demand respect they're doing things the right way they look really impressive there's almost this sort of natural draw between people there's little bumps along the ways some glitches but in the long run technology is going to win out so that's kind of a good analogy for where we're at we're kind of evolving from these PDF homerun technologies are gonna win out so across it's cool story of kind of hopping on that same track 'cause everyone's using out nowadays if you run your own business you use how much fitness stuff out there but we were I don't WanNa say one of the first ones but we would probably want the earlier mover in the space using social media to really promote fitness diet so we wall over time we're GONNA make this APP so dang good that everyone's GonNa Wanna use it and again it goes to the subscription model versus one time thing which is really interesting really good book that had just stakes you made so we can learn from him yeah you know it all goes back to the University of Michigan that's where I met my buddy he started our p. with me we randomly met in the University of Michigan Student G I read yeah totally one of those things where you know let's say at that time it was probably eighty percent person twenty percent online then is twenty thirteen started to shift I started to see that she after maybe it was more like a fifty fifty type thing and then I would say probably in like twenty fourteen or so is when that shift started to go maybe fifty fifty two now it was twenty percents then he went back to school to his PhD here had his master's in his Undergrad so I was fishing my Undergrad same time he was finishing his master so he was two years ahead of me and that's how it really all started the GPS things for their car but I couldn't even tell eventually people it's just going to go to your phone so it was kind of ways to go by the government and even though it was like a five year kind of thing but again it's technology over time you like officially search so we can start keeping track of how you did your one year two etc so we're coming up on about seven years now there's probably about August of twenty twelve so yet probably from y'all freight man you that's exactly right so again there's almost always this segment that is a little hesitant they resist change but inevitable like that are serious and that's exactly what happened is just kind of one of those mutual nods like respect back and forth and then this overtime you keep seeing him in the gym you to start chatting with them though hey how'd you get some go over that for big I'm surprised you're able to even sell that much right Dan did you have a mailing list or whatever tells a little bit more because I can imagine there's some people listening now who have some ideas that maybe years coming up here next month but the revenue year on one was sex super-low Justin training programs for close friends families probably about a hundred dollars a month and then sort of of social media at the time on say we're very lucky because we had a pretty good idea that that would work really well but also I think we had pretty good timing when we got into this space because now the there again I don't know exactly every God what has in there but if you're talking about eating or diets or whatever you could easily pull up on your phone if you're eating lunch versus carrying around some paper or whatever plan your purchase move in the time facebook was really just kinda taking off and so we leveraged that to post before and after US success stories and because of the natural sort of organic growth aww because just so beneficial because he went to University of Michigan and when he came out to don't tennis did you think you're gonNA automatically get in here as far as the fitness space do you wanted Jeff's and I imagine if I wanted to pdf I'd probably want to print it out if I'm paying as much as I'm paying for the templates here yet but now there's less people using paper and all that and it's easier than that where you can have it there we had to recruit more people because we are getting more and more clients where we couldn't keep up with it and that's just where the idea the scaling process came in so twenty twelve probably next to nothing really big dude in all that stuff really good guy but yeah he was kind of the first one to take a chance on us more or less in so that's actually where we ended up selling I e book so he didn't even sell it on in person eighty percent online so the tail end of two thousand fourteen we released a I e book all of a sudden sells a few thousand copies like the first couple of weeks people and we knew what we had worked we knew had a good backing to it everything was evidence based like well how do we reach people what do we do and so that really set the stage for her training and whatnot but what suggestions do you have and just walk us through of how you're able to even get them any sales when you're kicking off yeah no that's right to strategic partnership so we were new to this website called dog juggernaut training system so in our space they were really popular at the time I mean they still are actually in so the owner of that actually become a really good friend over time is named Chad Wesley Smith we didn't have any funding behind us everything's been bootstrapped along the way we still have never had any outside funding which is I think a little bit unique so even with the creation of our APP recently it's funny who didn't even sell it on our own website honestly I think at that point we didn't even have a payment structure set up on our website I think people just pay palace money and again this goes back to the idea that scene but we knew that we had a lot of good content share so obviously I kind of went around to who are some of the leaders in the space and Irish out to a guy and was like hey here's this addicts than yes just sort of continually evolved from there tomorrow and more products and we have probably thirty forty different products or something on a website now so as quite the offering first let's take all that feedback let's improve it that's built it into a digital APP make this lower cost per month again there's a two week free trial there's no reason not to try them about safe but you'd better than in the gym Oh man though you'll just lift it to the US bottom or something more or less again I don't know how much the listeners may relate to this it and honestly it was just him and I writing died and training programs for close friends family along the way the star and then it's just one of those things where we learn this is it scalable so how do we do how do we improve the future won't be the thing but let's just take your yearbook example where they have some knowledge and they wanNA share it but then they don't know how to then seem like you had a background and obviously you're backgrounds like strings in the same time I think can realize that we were probably under something and so again Keita risk of course cut a totally bombed out and he was selling a bunch of other e books at the time and his own apple and Google so severe will on both and it's really cool because I think what's interesting for our approaches we've already built this pretty established following had always great results thirteen and twenty twelve to where you still doing your training around New York Suli swore even though you kicked off your businesses that year you probably weren't putting too many hours let's just really how we got started and it's really just that whole idea of strategic partnerships and and reaching out to people and trying to set yourself up so you get your idea or products out there in front of the greatest number all the euros we disagree one hundred percent with it can my colleague rights counter article to that and he did in article win over really really well so there was soften his sight so for us it was like a no brainer we probably would have jumped on it if it was fifty fifty because there's just to get our name out there obviously ended up doing pretty well and we made a decent amount of money from it but in your sport or something like that we have a diet for that so yeah I think there's definitely a connotation to it that some people view it negatively but again were hopefully trying to help slow steady sustainable approach to be a bit more balanced along the way so you don't have the cutout tire food groups are tire macronutrients it's like everything should be that'd really man that was like two thousand eight to Harar eleven years ago I met and he convinced me to start training with him I did in and the rest is history senior eating to gain weight let's say you want to put onto muscle or something like that we have a diet for that you want to just maintain your weight you wanna focus on maybe performing a little bit better on website we sold on his site which had a lot more traffic and we just did a profit share with them so what is your percentage of doing a profit share so we can get an idea of how we should approach because that's a good idea it's really kind of capitalizing on that in probably our biggest demographic is sport across fit in Crossville is really great because again I don't know how much you know about cross it but and I guess if someone's listening in on their phone why don't you just tell them what the name of the APPs it could install it if they want to take a look where they're listening to the rest of the episode yeah totally it's called RPI Diet so it says has your templates online there for dieting not only dieting there for other things as well right yeah we have diet templates we training templates and again the training tablets are sort of like not handy to lose fifteen twenty pounds let's do it as fast as possible it's not over after it's okay you want to lose ten fifteen twenty pounds let's lose one two t pounds a week getting bootstrap just super low cost keeping everything super simple and then of course over time we added payments to our on site started accepting that selling stuff on our on site in terms of Digital Veasley especially if you've got someone in the space who has customers you just trying to get in front of them yeah so I want to say he took about thirty thirty five percents we got the rest of those extra pretty favorable for us it just started getting all this great data all these great success stories in it's going to naturally build upon itself does have negative connotation maybe so different areas of focus were the official Dietitians of USA weightlifting in USA. Powerlifting into those are for the outsider you just Kinda naturally think all that stuff the same facility break that stereotype Nicole Diet doesn't mean just restricting yourself or going to the extremes it's more like a slow sustainable method to lose weight so a little bit more methodical lead to better long term success y'all just curious obviously you're in the space 'cause you said Arpey strength is what you're on instagram and then Oh speaking the gym but everyone wants to lose fat they want to gain a little bit muscle they want to perform a little bit that are tough you're able to get those people jim that care about formats you get those I naturally the people that it gets better it's obviously going to happen it's just like his podcast ten fifteen years ago I think policy maybe even started twenty years ago so that was when there's maybe five or ten podcasts so think some people automatically think when they hear Diet they think that you have to diet to lose weight in so for us it's kind of like the idea of diet doesn't necessarily mean you have to restrict yourself diet could there's probably all the same but you know when you get into those scouts like such a big difference to them that right you have to charter specifies we have different products for different types of groups or small niche he's been self funded the profitable as well so we're actually on a really good track where we haven't had to go down that route seeking out VC's into things like that so again it's hoity quickly spread because people see results that's what they want really at the end of the day that's kind of what a lot of our growth has been predicated on US just getting people results in the naturally people are GonNa so we have a on my facebook group that has almost one hundred thousand members our clients self Ross's just kind of like well let's take all this critique that we've learned about our templates over the years long-term we're thinking well hey where are we going to be three to five years from now and the answer to that is just probably not be digital templates which actually really interesting to note that I wrote down because I I'm Jim hundred or two hundred members but maybe ten percent of those people are sort of competitive in the rest were they look those competitive people those are the influencers look up to them in the gym we're GonNa Kinda follow what they're doing or you get the owner on board to along with your program get good results and it's very quickly take a good virus within the gems arpey diets named the absolute enough you're going to have different APPS free Thuan again just trying to get your name around if you're going to rebrand or whatever just trying to understand the whole concept and who are too strong and won add some body not too many kid but Jimmy Beck into this story it seems like most people the regular person rate is more than be attracted to that because they're going to say hey I haven't seen you in awhile like what the heck happened you look right now so then everything just spreads very easily via ornamental so you don't have a lot of people like me come in the smaller niche but at the same time we get really well known there and then it's a little bit easier to start branching out into a little bit more mainstream mainstream a little bit hard to kind of take the slow steady approach the tortoise hair right that's the age old fable analogy whatever you wanna call it then yeah that's kind of where we're at Jimmy back into your story about Fau sold the first kind of trying to break down some of these barriers out because there's so many people while supply and demand again being the entrepreneur that I am it's hard for me to get mad at these people that are selling this stuff out there shrink dude and you said you're looking up to this other gym it helps people better visualize your size yeah so currently some five nine about to ten okay and so again it's funny walking around New York City here the last couple of days with my wife there's a different fitness staying on every other corner in all this stuff is different when I was here for years the percentage body fat I like roughly ten percent I mentioned the strength guys are more kind of like your size you're buying these strength plants who want to add a lot more muscles versus again trying to get more fit easy wait it's not like a quick fix who like no we don't have magic we don't sell magic that's never been part of our philosophy so if you WanNa talk about the importance of a company having sort of this core value into because so many people out there want the quick fix they want the fad I wanNA lose ten pounds how do I do it in like three days and you're like okay well that's probably not the best way to go and I use purpose ours has always been bringing evidence based approach to the mainstream basically again that's what we want to do so stop doing all this bad stuff sapling this you much more easily I guess not acceptable to these union talked about Yoyo diets are maybe dinner or like yo yo different types of fitness stuff when I was in college I run around bare footed everywhere I don't see anyone doing that anymore everyone does these little things so if you're getting to in the mainstream doing all those and I could see how you could have a business one year then down the next year versus yours is more gets the people would come to your site or looking at rapper looking at your instagram it'd be more sustainable catastrophic business versus again whatever the new fad is if you will one hundred percent ago in talking to people that are the same stuff happens something will pop up for year it's a new hot trendy thing and then you're gone and so again we get a ton of P thirty seven dollars presale whatever's probably available for about twenty seven the first week so again terms like sales staff that something I've learned over time a little bit of scarcity see offer uses already for people and again it's almost embarrassing to look back thinking man we sold excel files for about one hundred dollars a pop they were not pretty whatsoever unlimited price for X. number of days and that usually gives people pretty good reason to have a call to action to go ahead and purchase it so I think that's pretty important but we sold does went really wants but then you just start eating somewhat normally you're gonNA gain right back we so many people like that that come to us okay finally I just want something that works in co pay we'll here's what we're GonNa do the Thomas like they've tried every single thing out there they've tried every diet match all night they just get so frustrated so ticked off with it because yeah it's easy to lose a few pounds L. and again we're thinking how do we take this one on one coaching model and how do we create a product from what do we do how do we do so again I was like we gotta figure out some way to do it so I go to my buddy little bit of discount and then they really didn't start to take off until about two to three months later and so my hypothesis is people were skeptical of what it was rightfully Zepa look great yeah you know Kinda depends the cool thing sort on no matter what your goals are we have a program that'll help it's not just one type of person right our whole idea was we and then if you sort of saw your weight loss while we kind of already know what would be the first adjustment we make would be the second adjustment we make what would be third adjustment that you make it so he built in these pre-built so I would be totally skeptical too but again a couple of months later people start using these templates people start talking about them online social media and people are posting their before and after Super Smart Guy. PhD's physiology is I think I've pretty good idea he's like I'm going to create an excel sheet he's GonNa lift you die we know you're going to start this number of calories or whatever the people are demanding it right so naturally someone has sa- quiet someone's going to supply it part of me is like okay I can't get mad this person's selling stuff book do you want him back in there and kind of how you've grown the company since then again just kind of talk about hiring or anything else about making this a real business instead of you running around New York and they worked in they worked very well so again we want those in February Twenty fifteen solo for about one hundred dollars about probably the first again when we release them sold for the layman person or whatever he just wanted to add lose a couple pounds add a couple you know purchase drink guys the bigger dudes that you're saying what your size I mean normally don't obviously ss on podcast but singers because undergone a lot of changes since then so it's definitely not the same as it was back then because we didn't have to really spend any advertising money early on because again just the way all the no we're not like whatever maybe they they're doing well yeah and I was just kind of funny to me because I won't find a man like capitalism someone's going to do it and I could see how your business training everyone everywhere yeah totally so again watched the yearbook sells a couple thousand copies it's like a brain lightbulb goes off in her head were like and how much did he sound for the original prices facebook output a lot of money behind it to you know Bush posts all that stuff but yeah instagram was really just starting to take off at the time instagram has been our bread and butter just been amazing guys me too so I could see how you could easily find the people who buy that product and those form so you said it took a little result so the trainer I'm in I'm not sure how much you're making a trainer doing that so man I'd never made six figures as a trainer again this goes back the whole idea that my buddy and I to well I don't even know what that means but it's just kind of funny how it all works yeah I'm too rich you know how hey man I wish I had that problem too works and we did we've been super successful at proving that it works it's actually really funny now. People never questioned that our products work some of the critiques we get our like it works mm frost because what we do in the fitness space so again we just really really really leverage the power of social media and again it's the whole idea of social proof so we have to prove that I don't do anything and so he's like this is just the worst use of my time ever is why don't I just stopped doing that just create products e books writing the foundation of the APP first year like this business are p absolutely yep okay you're you sound like you did over one hundred k. just in the sales dare I mean the other guy got thirty percents or the people seeing those and those forms and stuff tesla bit more about this business started other than to selling books that I yeah our bread and butter was social media facebook and instagram asleep interrelated the beginning we are selling these templates I would send every single one by hand via email and so luckily thank goodness someone that I knew was like all in probably the year before because October November December we are selling you book so we had about a quarter of the year I think we had at the time one or two other coaches just besides us in two thousand fourteen so I mean it was because we sold digital products which actually really interesting this is a note that I wrote down because I think it's important to talk about the idea of automation and scaling how the two were very I I don't know if you're going into forms tell people about it because I knew I used to go to bodybuilding dot com and the forms way back in the day totally okay yeah sure yeah I'm one of those extra time to devote to social media or Business Development Hagenbach strategic partnerships and so that was just another game changer along the way I'm Kinda impressed even doing when you're buddy to seventy thousand obviously I mean even kicking off it seems like you did pretty well and then you're going and doing these excel templates imagine like you seem the type of guy or at least a distraction will athletes or something is like a side thing that he did for fun ironically so he was a professor for a number of years but he ended up resigning because it just wasn't worthwhile use of his time because he stuck up in all these meetings at school that essentially waste your time basically because it's all sort of bureaucratic political stuff readers have always meetings that are pretty much just use business where did you have your drive to like do this and become more than just quote unquote a trainer man. That's a really good question again I'm sure you've heard this a million times on the podcast it just think entrepreneurs it's almost like I was an accidental entrepreneur my whole life because actually in college did this internship called college works painting had to go around and knock on doors and stuff and try to get my own business and I was doing it in like rural Michigan smaller towns and all the people competing against where like in the suburbs on Detroit Ann Arbor all that stuff they had just way more houses and all that stuff and actually ended up doing pretty well in it so looking back to me I was like an accidental entrepreneur it is a passion honestly we've talked about we've joked about it like he thought he was just going to be a professor of his life making fifty two hundred k. and writing some training programs for some high level that Sophon so he hasn't been a professor for a couple years but going back to twenty fifteen I mean you sound super excited I mean I thought that's pretty amazing in one year because the year before how much do you tourism work back then you post something in ton of your friends are going to share it or talk about comment necess- can be seen by a lot of people obviously it's a lot different now if you really want to do anything the people you've had now some people have at some people don't and again the people that do have it the ones that typically end up being the success stories good it sounds like again part of your motivation I think a lot of us could potentially relate to that unfortunately but also when you're selling these products how much time are you starting to spend in two thousand fifteen doing this online stuff versus trucks which was like a game changer so instead of spending an hour or two a day where I had sent all this stuff was like boom now it's all automated it's done within the span of five or ten minutes now have all this it didn't really like having my own boss I kind of doing my own thing and it was really natural because the way we were treated at a gym where we started it was just like a lesson to be learned it treated the employees ten so the February march of Twenty fifteen so my wife throughout this whole process she's a very good sustainable job in New York City or you were like in the very very low six figures like twenty fourteen so yeah let's just pretty quick rise which is really cool we probably text it from two thousand fourteen to twenty fifty offer she was like a senior type for business development and she actually got a really good job in Charlotte North Carolina so we moved from New York City down to Charlotte North Carolina which is where we still live dude you got to stop doing that. He's a use software it's called infusion soft so we still use it has its pros and cons but it basically allows us to automate the sending of all these I get the freedom to do what I want in I don't have to travel all over the city like I'm not relying upon that wind up on different things so yes I've always had this internal drive and I'm sure you've heard it a million times now for and a half years later so she had a really good job they're really good opportunity we had two small kids so it's like just not worthwhile to stay with York City just crazy expenses so awesome right so would you say that you'll ended up making overall yes so that was a fresh air that we crack the seven-figure mar yeah okay so were you pretty amazed by going from because everything that I was doing digital unlike I don't need to be here I can work anywhere in the world I can be in rural Michigan if I need to at my parents house like just wife hates the new job just hates it how long did it take you to figure that out about six months okay Yep so September twenty fifteen my mom's down sort of watching our kids back of the customer service and all this stuff so I'm desperately trying to recruiter but at the same time it's incredibly nerve wracking because she's about to give up a super Jimmy Wifi and I'm good so we made that move ironically and I think this is a really cool story as it relates to the beginning stages entrepreneur so that's march of two thousand fifteen turned out there is no failure we will work around the clock to make sure this is successful in so what is the drive that was part of the drive we had no other choice we had to be successful a good job benefits very nice salary all that stuff any of two kids so the health insurance rate yes so we have two small kids so again I started to really take off like wildfire and I mentioned to if you're talking about twenty fifteen because it seems like this is the first sustainable year so as I say that is yeah because again you're just doing a kind of part time and again you're being trainer part time as well but this was basically your first full real year into it twenty fifteen and you made a million dollars yeah so I mean at the time it shirts heck felt like it I remember being super nerve wracking just mad I don't know if we should do this long story short she does make the jump she's been working for our p. ever since who went to bed at night without answering every single email and I'm not even kidding about that it was just something that we did now again that kind of led US starting to get I'm sure you've had a lot of people that relate to that where you have to eventually make this leap in you have to kind of make this leap of faith hindsight's twenty twenty right so obviously maybe it wasn't a leap of faith it's almost four and a half years ago all worked out but again it's that idea of having all your eggs in one basket which is what we had to do and then it's like we have no other choice that crowd so I'm like I don't want to be a need something else to do and they were sort of this will hey I'm just going to join forces with my buddy and I don't care if it doesn't necessarily take off successful I don't care if you're six figures seven figures if you're a billionaire right if you're just a humble person about it I respect that a lot more than some of that's going to try to brag about it all right maybe show it off a little bit sometimes we'll do dedicated photo shoots and stuff like that but yeah for the most part man I'm pretty modest about at all I personally I like people that even if they are how many hours you used to work yeah so again it's probably that eighty twenty where eighty percent was online in two thousand fourteen in two thousand fifteen at started to shift probably even more like workshop on my dude this guy I don't like the way he treats me or whatever it made me way quicker versus just being cordial about him saying I love my job Manhattan it or whatever Oh a really interesting story at least my mind people wanna think about overnight successes guess what in Two Thousand Fifteen twenty sixteen even into twenty seventeen week never a little bit burnt out and then it was like well we have to hire more help need more customer service we need other outside resources for that was very valuable lesson as well 'cause I'm sure a lot of people are late Joe Pretty quickly or are you taking your shirt off in the gym and taking pictures or what selfless not not really mad not really that type of person when you're saying to have the freedom that you want but then when you have a job that you feel like you're not being treated right it definitely motivates you even faster to get there because I mean that's what happened to my job definitely higher margin products and so that gave us a lot of options a lot of flexibility the ad totally working from home my wife and I both worked from home how was that Andrew that's where I work I'm like I don't need a big office I don't need all this fancy stuff I have my laptop have a little desk I can make some notes and all that stuff but really that's all I needed and Burger wife was contemplating and you're trying to recruit or to get out of that role honestly because I was running our social media from the time I would wake up to the time I'd go to bed yeah I think most people do but you're talking about burnout came a couple years later because are you working from home the whole time because I want to get a better idea of what goes into making the successful business but we have to do and we could focus on other things so yes she sort of makes all of our cookbooks now which very naturally fit in with what we do so that's been hugely popular she loves to cook and all that stuff it's kind of one of those because a lot of your stuff's online I imagine your profit margin had to be huge sawn all the stuff to versus this type of stuff you had to do before yeah totally that was definitely one of the advantages of what we sold got a little bit to burn out from Mica customer service stuff now we have full time customer service people that are great in that's hugely hugely important just removed so much time and hassle. NFL method gym uniform in the middle of training. I have some downtime between an exerciser between hopping on my phone to see if there's any message or something coming in on social media now making sure that I can respond there's some point you just need to bring in more help yeah it can be a little bit scary but just something you have to do if you really want to scale and get to the next level yeah you said you're even getting behind for Yasser to join yeah well there's so many people like that this is like I know you don't tell me bad on that guy no I'm just kidding I'm not that Guy Oh hey hey man a maybe not the greatest stuff that you've gone through because the tink everything just down almost perfect in your story so far if we wanted a spouse to work with maybe they're working from home with us too or just that's really interesting so she kind of focuses on what she focuses on I kinda do I focus on so for example now mostly all of our cookbooks and stuff because she building the business over the last few years because again it sounds like everything's gone up and up since you've really started really we've been a little fortune out I I don't really that because I think most people when they saw the gym or to see a guy who's a pretty big dude magid him just being a Jim guy versus coming here thinking of automation to actually

instagram Amazon facebook New York FDA PhD Olympics Bush Business Development Hagenbach professor one hundred dollars hundred dollars five years eighty percent one year one hundred percent ten percent two years ten fifteen twenty pounds
Luxury Dorms, Pricey Apartments Run The Risk Of Further Stratifying College Students

On Point with Tom Ashbrook | Podcasts

48:18 min | 1 year ago

Luxury Dorms, Pricey Apartments Run The Risk Of Further Stratifying College Students

"This message comes from on points sponsor indeed. If you're hiring with indeed you can post a job in minutes set up screener questions then zero in on your shortlist of qualified candidates using an online dashboard get started at indeed dot com slash N._p._R.. podcast from N._P._R.. W._B.. You are Boston Meghna Chakrabarti and this is on point. My First Dorm Room Freshman Year in college was your basic concrete street blocked with a couple of desks and bunk beds and a super flattering overhead fluorescent flight not that I'm really pining for the good old days but there was something about the idea a whole bunch of people in my hall from different places different backgrounds different experiences roll thrown together to learn from and live with each other well now. Oh things of course different on many American campuses luxury living is in in fact private developers are partnering with some colleges to build Super Deluxe apartment style dorms for students who can afford it colleges say it saves them money which can then be spent on actual education but critics say it's driving inequality on campus purpose so this hour on point American colleges private developers and luxury student housing and you can join us. What are your thoughts about the impact of potential impact of private of it development on college campuses? Do you buy the idea that it frees up potentially hundreds of millions of dollars for some universities to funnel back into education and if they don't have to build new dorms or do you fear it's really undermining this idea that college is a place where we all get to rub shoulders with one another rub elbows rub shoulders. I'm mixing my metaphors today join US anytime at on point radio DOT ORG or twitter and facebook at on point radio joining me in the studio is Deirdre Fernandez and she's a reporter for the Boston Globe covering New England's education economy. She wrote an article this year headlined Pricey Campus Housing Triggers Debate in Boston and we've got a link to to that point radio DOT ORG deirdre welcome to the program. Thanks for having me here. Okay so first of all <hes> US begin your story with a development in north at northeastern university. Take US inside the Super Deluxe accommodation. What's it like so basically this is lightly apartments that's across the street from northeastern northeastern campus and they have floor to ceiling windows <hes> lots of light coming in stainless steel appliances granite counter advantage hardtops? Yes it's like nothing that you and I were used to know cinderblocks <hes> nothing like that and just it's just a different style of living and there are a lot of these apartment buildings showing up across the country and different college campuses you know they have <hes> Stacked Act Washer and dryers at some of these places where I can't remember having a stack Washer and dryer until I was several years out of college in my living. I couldn't even find the LAUNDROMAT my first last year in college for most of it. But how much does it cost them to live there. So the one in northeastern is was is a year round lease so basically unlike the dorm rooms there <hes> eight months for when the students are on campus these are one year leases and they're about sixteen eighteen seventeen thousand dollars a year so basically there were a couple thousand dollars more when it's a year round situation than what it what it costs to live on campus Ramsay sixteen thousand dollars a year for shared room yeah <hes> nineteen thousand dollars for a single and then as you report you compare that to twelve thousand dollars on northeastern campus you have the most expensive on campus shared dorm yeah so there is a price and it's actually what the financial aid it is at northeastern. The average financial aid for room and board is about I think fifteen thousand or so so you can see there's a gap for students who are looking at these light the apartments of if you're on financial aid you're going to have to find a way to cover that okay so <hes> but they're popular though I mean yeah it. Is it full yell at least when I I was reporting the story it was close to fall so and they're supposed to open this fall okay so this is really interesting because what how did northeastern and again. It's obviously obviously northeastern is not the only place this is happening. It's happening on college campuses in many parts of the country but but how did northeastern come by the idea of partnering with a private developer to create <hes> student housing well northeastern is in the city so one of the things that's happening here in Boston is that there are a lot of college students coming coming in and <hes> it's pushed creating a housing crisis of sorts for people who actually live here and work here so one of the things that northeastern says that it's been trying to do always get more students to live on university type housing instead of in the you know the <hes> rental spaces and rent rent homes in the Boston area yeah so the workers can actually rent the spaces but the other point part of northeastern is that it saves the college money you know they don't have to build they lease the land and they don't the upfront costs of constructing hundreds of millions of dollars to construct a new dorm. Normally northeastern told you it saved them at least a hundred million dollars yeah so four hundred million dollars. I'm sorry yeah millions of dollars because it does cost them a lot of money and a lot of these schools are <hes> really cautious about putting additional debt on their books and they can save a decent northeastern case with that money towards research towards more financial aid for students towards other things that <hes> a college has to pay for okay so just to be clear northeastern owns the land and that this particular dorm is on yes <hes> but this private developer owns the building yep so that's kind of the situation I should've students are paying rent to this private developer yeah okay and so I mean D- by that in in the course of your reporting that this was actually a boon in for arguably northeastern saying it's a boon for all students if they're able to save the money and put it back into you know the the core function of the university yeah you know it's it's an good argument to me make him and it's a housing building new buildings as expensive and a lot of these colleges no longer want them on their books basically in WanNa don't want to be carrying that debt for a long time and in Boston they're real estate is like is one of their biggest <hes> the assets at this point in this is a way that they feel like they can save money but the money back but also outsource source basically this very central function <hes> well <hes> but but essentially what they're what they're outsource in the manner under that they're outsourcing is very it's very analogous to the housing issues that city lots of cities have across the country anyway that what's being built is for the students who can most afford it and not the students as you're saying who are on a significant amount of financial aid yeah exactly I mean it. Is I mean I don't think a lot of these universities like talk for example are they're very cognizant about what they're creating and whether the culture they're creating is not an aglet innocuous to that what they're they're supposed to be doing and what their aspirations are for universities right that you're basically creating this environment where people come in from all over the country from lots of different income levels to kind of you've gathered together learn from each other and whether you're creating a place where you know you only the richest students are rubbing shoulders with each other one in place and learning from each other and what what are you take the call outside afterwards okay so so deirdre stand by here for just a second because I want to bring into the conversation Jeff Jeff Jones he's joining us from Blue Mountain Beach Florida. He's principal at Capstone Development Partners a student Housing Development Company. That's focused on working with colleges and universities diversities in public private partnerships. I guess like well some of them are private colleges but partnerships and they recently completed new residents in dining hall at at the University of Massachusetts Boston that building accommodates more than one thousand first year and transfer students so Jeff Jones welcome to you. Thank you so much appreciate appreciate you having me. It's great to have you so tells more about <hes> about why <hes> Capstone Development is in this business we are the business to assist universities and colleges in <hes> fulfilling their mission to house and educate <hes> their students and and we have developed over the last twenty to thirty years a good deal of expertise experience lessons learned that we can bring to universities to help them in the design construction financing and operation of quality housing at the most affordable rental rates possible. I think it's really important not to over generalize about what is being done through these university developer or or public private partnerships because all of these developments all of these new communities that are being built for not allying and I'd like to just draw some distinctions to some of the work that we've been doing compared to the if the community at northeastern that you've been speaking yes sure go ahead and would love to hear that sure will I would I would say to you that <hes> our company's Company's commitment and the commitment of most of the seventy universities and colleges with with which we have partnered over the past twenty two years are in fact committed to the most affordable housing possible but yet there are competing goals goals for this housing universities won't quality built facilities. We all want that will design thoughtfully designed facilities that offer programs and academic success support facilities and Amenities <hes> they want sustainability and energy efficiency all all of those goals require the expenditure of sons and in today's construction market. It's getting more and more expensive to build that trying to facilitate and yet we're striving constantly to maintain affordable room and rental rates and I think some projects in some universities and some developers do that better than others and that's why I think it's important not to over generalize about what's being delivered through these partnerships. Yeah I hear you so so Jeff Johnson. Let me ask you when you say affordable. There's a lot of contention over what that means just in the regular housing market so what is affordable mean here in in student housing that you're working. You're working on for example the one that you just completed at the University of Massachusetts Boston. What does affordable mean there well well? I think you're right. Affordable is in the eye of the holder and it's it's a it's a tricky term to define we like to use as affordable or the most affordable rates possible given all of the market conditions and the community <hes> seachers and elements <hes> combined but at Umass Boston where the demographic factors are are such that affordability is critical <hes> we specifically designed the community for efficiency we built at a cost competitive competitive right and we program the facility so that we could achieve the lowest possible rights and our rates there range from <hes> low four thousand per semester per person for shared rooms Six thousand four private single occupancy rooms with private bathrooms so we have a range of unit types that meets various price points take a good number of price on the lowest end of that spectrum interesting suggestion stand by for just a second and Deirdre Fernandes hang on here for a moment as well. We gotta take a quick break. We're talking about private developers working with colleges and universities some of them public colleges and universities as you just heard others private on creating student in housing but whether or not a lot of that is luxury housing this is on point. We'll be right back. This message comes from an points sponsor indeed. When it comes to to hiring you don't have time to waste you need help getting to your shortlist of qualified candidates fast with indeed post a job in minutes set up screener questions agents then zero in on qualified candidates and when you need to hire fast accelerate your results with sponsor jobs new users can try for free when you sign up at indeed dot com slash N._p._R.? PODCAST terms conditions and quality standards apply. This is on point Meghna Chakrabarti. We're we're talking about colleges and universities many across the nation who have moved to partnering with Private Development Companies To create new student housing and sounds sounds like a great idea about uncertain campuses that housing tends to be on the luxury end of things. That's not affordable for all students so is that problem and I'm joined today by Deirdre Henry Fernandez. She's a correspondent for the Boston Globe and it's her story that was headlined. Pricey campus housing triggers a debate in Boston that inspired this hour. We have a linked to that at on Point Radio Dot Org Jeff Jones also joins us. He's principal at Capstone Development Partners. It's a student housing development company that's focused working with colleges and universities -versities <hes> to create new student housing and Deirdre Fernandes. Let me just turn to you briefly because you heard Jeff Jones before the break. They're talking about you know he. One of their projects project was working with Umass Boston Public University and that there they they they tried really hard to build this new housing that that achieved all the goals of the university but also keeping it affordable it sounds great. I mean the prices that the jeff was giving us do seem relatively affordable in the Greater Boston area but why why isn't that possible with other universities because we were talking about <hes> housing at northeastern that cost like three times as much four times as much yeah and I think part part of it is a lot of these companies are looking at the market right. I mean that's <hes> what they are gauging the prices against and whether or not kids are willing to spend that much money what they would be willing to spend off campus for housing and so if students <hes> in the northeastern area are willing to spend <hes> that march or the rental units are around that much <hes> then they're going to price them at that point. I mean they don't want to drive away students but they also want to make some money honey. I mean they're they put a lot of money into these building. Yeah Okay so Jeff Jones. I'm still quite taken by U U.. Mass Boston example <hes> but but let me ask ask you. I presume that Capstone Development wants to make a profit. It wants to be a profitable company here. So so. How much are you tied into <hes> pricing the these developments at market rates in the in the community well? It's a very good question and the answer is full of nuances. This is because not all of these communities developed through public private partnerships are financed or structured in the same lay <hes> <hes> some like the project at at northeastern are structured with private ownership of the housing improve much private financing thing mostly equity based capital financing by the developer but there are other ways that these projects aren't delivered and in the case of the UMASS Boston Austin community there was an intentional decision a that the ownership of the improvements on the ground leased from the university would be through five of them Wednesday three not for profit organization independently chartered and <hes> by the I._R._S.. To own and operate housing for the the benefit of universities so capstone is not an owner or profit motivated participant in that particular community that is a why not for profit on facility in which the net operating proceeds of the community flow back through the not for profit profit owner and ultimately used to benefit the institution that stone is tight. I've see we are paid a C- a market competitive developments see for taking the risk and responsibility for delivering on time and within budget and then a sister company of ours manages the Facility for Market Competitive City but there is no private ownership or private profit motivation in that particular structure that does help felt that does help on the affordability end of the spectrum and on the benefit of operation flowing back to the institution well Jeff Jones principal at capstone and Development Partners joining us today from Blue Mountain Beach Florida. Thank you so much for being with us. You welcome okay so deirdre. I'M GONNA go to callers here in just a second but intriguing not pro not for profit ownership model in some of these newly developed <hes> student student housing or in the new student housing housing. Have you seen that in other places. I'm I haven't seen that locally. I mean it's still kind of a new model so <hes> I haven't. I mean you have that Hugh Mass Boston. <hes> there are a couple of other universities that are also looking at kind of these partnerships and how to structure them it <hes> it does depend I mean it depends on how how much the university wants to let go of you know pricing and rental numbers. I mean what how much control they wanNA have okay well. Let's go to our callers. There's really quickly David's calling from Charleston South Carolina David. You're on the air hi magnetic. Thanks for taking my call. I'll tell my daughter started her freshman in your last year at Colorado State University and she's like you make me sick locker room with bunk beds desks this year though she's going need one of those communities and I'll say very liberal very involved with you know income inequality in this country which we both agree is a huge problem and I really don't believe leave these types of communities at least at its you perpetuate that and I'll tell you the reason being is number one. I don't think kids for the most part of the large university like like that are focused on income and and that sort of that class ideal. I think it's much more all the kids they're living who they are. Andy's cleansed offer something unique for these kids they give them different types of community live in after that freshman year like my daughter's going to a learning community with it's four individual rooms four roommates with a common room and she wanted that the social interaction so motive was not anything in this particular places and you know at the very high end of that but it's on the low end and then the cost of it was nominal compared to what you pay we paid last year for Yeah I would say it was merely a few hundred dollars difference in price. I see a huge difference. It's going to be environment for her. Okay Well David. Thank you for your your call. Let's go to Carla WHO's calling from Decatur Georgia Carl. You're on the air hi. Thanks for taking my call. I'm calling because <hes> I I am all in support of students having Nice places to live and they're going to college. <hes> I think wealthy students have always had that alternative so I don't really think that's an issue at Georgia Tech. <hes> I've lived in this area for more than three decades that place was so glum until the Olympics hit and then they they built housing for the Olympics which the students inherited and they had these now they have beautiful housing there and that has done a lot to transform that campus from a place where the students basically went went through hell you know <hes> to one where they actually enjoy their college experience so I I think we underestimate the pressure that students are under nowadays and how difficult it can be when this new environment to be living in crappy housing when you're dealing with so many other issues so carl. Let me ask you a question it totally hear you on that but but what about the example that we started off with from Deirdre Fernandez where she was looking at a at a new college dorm at Northeastern University versity that was priced so high that only certain students could afford it. I mean I is that the students who can't afford it are still stuck in the in the sort positive the quote unquote crappy student housing that you talked about I think then that's a good point <hes> but places like church tech and U._G._A.. Have <hes> <hes> <hes> multitudes affordable housing where for only about another five hundred dollars semester one thousand dollars semester you can get better amenities. I I think if you have a place like Boston that's heavily built-up and already very expensive. It's always going to be problem. I don't know how you can you can reconcile that <hes> I think if they concentrate on making the basic housing good you know no roaches could laundromat <hes> a nice lounge <hes> you can go very far. You're helping all students have a better experience but you know richer students will always have advantages and getting in getting nice healthy well Carlo. Thank you so much for your call. Would you like to respond abundance. Yeah I mean I think that's it's a fair point and it's actually you know. Colleges are trying to keep their students right attract new students and keep the students they have so live. The housing is one of the things that is really important to students so you can understand where colleges want to create some sort of tiered system or for you know for those students who can afford it. They can get different types of amenities included in the basic dorm room. The question is how much responsibility you do. Colleges have to make it <hes> equal for everybody and how much I mean they're already subsidizing housing for many students and how I mean it should they be subsidizing all the way to the kind of fanciest dorms or allow students who can't afford to pay that right so we had that caller David from South Carolina say saying that <hes> you know he had a daughter who was very socially aware but wasn't maybe the kids aren't kids. These are college students attends that the students maybe aren't so singularly focused on the day to day issues of income inequality <hes> but and also both David and our other caller just said the better housing wasn't actually on their campuses that much more expensive which was interesting so there are lots of different models here. We want to acknowledge that but you talk to some kids for for example at Tufts University keep calling them kids. Sorry sorry college students. You're adults you talk to some students at Tufts University for example who objected to the fact of tiered housing as they call over there. What were their concerns well? Their concerns were tops was one of the <hes> schools that had a flat great for everybody was paying. Everybody was paying the same for housing and their concern was that it does create this System has come into place and they're trying to accommodate the financial aid but for students I mean I think there are some students who do feel like there is a stratification happening and that perhaps <music> <hes> idealistic as it may see universities might be one of those places where market forces should be held at bay or at least a couple of years. I mean again and I know that sounds really pollyannaish when I say it out loud but it's not exactly a an unheard of idea yeah no it does go to this kind of issue. You know should universities as be some sort of <hes> great place where everything is equal and every I mean it's you know realities that way in our should universities be creating Yup society that is striped well. Let's go to Jessica who's calling from Spokane Washington who may have a thought on that Jessica. You're on the Air Hi hi there. My comment is the divisiveness that we're talking about. These luxury dorms fading exists already existed in the types of clothes that people wear the technology they carry <hes> and things that that just struck their everyday life and that really instead of focusing on luxury dorms wouldn't it be interesting if the universities created sustainable housing things that had solar panels and maybe reuse grade water for flushing toilets and so that everyone was saving money students universities cities and that it was just a long term sustainable option instead. We'll Jessica. Thank you so much for your call. Let's turn now to Joshua Brown joins us from Charlottesville Virginia. He's a professor of education at the University of Virginia and he's the lead author of study that was published just last month in the Journal of Student Affairs. Here's research and practice and the articles called the hidden structure the influence of Residence Hall Design on Academic Outcomes Professor Brown welcome to on point. Hello thank you for having me today okay so so I let me just get your your big picture. Take here should universities been a place where market forces are kept at bay. Is there something to this idea that students are all mixed up together the other in dorms and not differentiated so much by income. You know I think the <hes> the market factors and market forces that you mentioned <hes> mm have been traditionally at odds with the goals and aspirations of education in America and you highlight those tensions very well <hes> and I think that you see that come up with <hes> deirdre steady in the tensions that <hes> individuals are objecting to and and so oh meaning what our society is is stratified <hes> and so as students enroll in colleges as they come to the college they should be. They should have opportunities to interact with other individuals that are not necessarily like them whether that be by race or socioeconomic status or a variety of other factors when you group individuals according to those factors <hes> you begin to govern and limit those whether that be by policy that the organization creates or whether that be by structures physical structures which is what we're discussing here today okay so in this in the study that you published about the influence of Residence Hall Design on Academic Outcomes uh-huh. What did you find so we were approached by a school who had basically done what you all have been discussing here? Is there was a certain type of residence hall that had existed on campus the traditional type that you described at the outset and in an effort to begin to to <hes> recruit <hes> in catered to some of the more modern demands they built series of luxury residence halls and what they <hes> had asked us to do was to basically come in and evaluate and see to what extent we might be able to help them with retention efforts from a residence halls <hes> standpoint one point what we discovered is that <hes> there there were differences in variations <hes> by those structures and those those differences played out by erase. What we call Hamath early opportunity the him awfully is basically where <hes> individuals of like attributes <hes> sort of adhere together or grouped together <hes> and then those <hes> the other factor was by G._P._A.? So what we discovered was is that at the predominantly white campus there wasn't really any variation according or <hes> for the white individuals wherever they lived on campus whether it was the isolating architecture architecture the luxury dorms or if it was ended the traditional more <hes> socializing architecture what we found was that is that it was very important or excuse it was <hes> you are much more likely for the black students were much more <hes> likely or had a higher associated G._P._A.. In the traditional traditional setting than they did in the isolating setting and we thought that that would have very important implications for the way that not only only universities pursued the design of their facilities or the residents halls but also the ways in which they <hes> the policies that they put forth for those individuals as well whether that'd be selection or Brune changes or other policies that the organization might have over time okay interesting so we're GonNa talk more about those implications. When we come back from a quick break we are talking this hour about about private developers creating new college dormitories on various college campuses across the United States and whether that might exacerbate asser bait some income inequality issues on American campuses or if it's helping college campuses create much needed housing for students? We've you've got comments coming in on facebook. Mary New Suara says I don't see this as being much different than the students who lived off campus they could've stayed in a tin can dorm room but instead instead just rented an apartment that was more to their liking J.. Chris Henry says they've done this at our little State School East Tennessee State University in Johnson City smallish town of forty five two thousand with its own problem of not enough audible housing for those already living here. We'll be back. This is on point it. It has already been uneventful went full summer in Politics Yeah between the twenty twenty debates and the president's battle over immigration. There's a lot going on and win. There's news you need to know about the N._p._R.. Politics podcast is there to tell you what happened not to mention. We're hitting the road so you can meet all of the twenty twenty contenders appeal is GonNa drive me crazy the N._p._R.. Politics podcast cast subscribe this is on point <unk>. We're talking this hour about private developers partnering with colleges and universities across the United States to build new you student housing some of that housing quite luxurious and quite expensive now colleges say it's great because they don't have to pay to build it and that money can then go oh to back into education the core mission of university but other folks have some concerns saying that if the housing is being built for only the students can that can afford it does that exacerbate awesome income inequality issues on American campuses in a way that mirrors the issues across the United States. I'm joined today by Deirdre Fernandez unders. She's correspondent for the Boston Globe in its her story that has prompted this conversation today and we have a link to it at all point radio DOT ORG Joshua Brown also joins us. He's a professor of education at at the University of Virginia and Deirdre and Joshua. There are so many comments coming online. I'm just GonNa read a whole bunch of them because people are really really interested in this okay Berry y off says luxury dorms the biggest problem with college right now is that it's too expensive saddling kids and parents with long-term debt move even the wrong direction berry says but thinking fifteen says when I think of what my daughter's dorm housing costs for what looked like a prison cell and a shared bath with many others even that was quite a racket for the colleges Manny Goldstein on the other hand says our son is in a newer dorm with central A._C.. carpeting and Sushi she much nicer than cinderblocks and linoleum and the rent a window fan that I had but todd in Snow Vegas says my daughter is seventy thousand dollars in in debt and the majority of that was housing so dear G. Let me just get you to respond to that is it did to the issue of the debt that students are already taking onto that come come up when when talking to universities and private developers about what kind of housing they were going to build you know it didn't really but that is part of the expense that students taking on is the expense of where to live and their residents halls <hes> so yeah I mean that's a big issue of how much you can afford how much debt you WanNa take Mike and what if you have financial aid. How much is going to cover it? You want to take out more loans or your parents want to take out more loans to pay four to live in the bedroom house yeah but I mean I've gone to college. Campus Tours with people and housing is a big issue. I mean parents will turn around and they say you know they say say they want the most affordable options but if you walk at they don't want cinderblock cinderblocks yeah I mean it's it is can be a turnoff is decision point point for a lot of families okay so then on that point Jim from our website says he remembers when northeastern was the first school to impose in his words luxury dorms then in every college race to build a dorm to compete for college applicants so is there a race to the penthouse here the I guess yeah I mean but college is want want students to come and on the college tour the college dorm is going is a central part of what you're looking at and college is so expensive anyway for a lot of families and when you are shelley out several tens of thousands thousands of dollars a year you WanNa get you WanNa feel like you're getting your money's worth Joshua Brown. You want to chime in on that a lot of these organizations. These universities are becoming more and more enrollment conscious <hes> and they're having to <hes> I think lures not the right word but entice students students to enroll <hes> and housing is and amenities are the options that are being used or one of the options that are being used and as is highlighted here is that students in order to pay for this or having you know by Luxury aspect of it might have consequences that we don't even we don't even see as of yet that's a that's a great concern of mine well so Professor Brown and Deirdre History Fernandez standby because again the callers. They're pounding down here so let's go to Brett who's calling from Oakland California Brett. You're on the Air I think for taking my call <hes> yeah so I was at University of Michigan for Grad School <hes> just last year <hes> and something I noticed through just this cut or teachers to sing. There was just a vast difference in different classes amongst the students in Undergrad <hes> and University of Michigan one of the top schools public schools with highest percentage from like the upper one per cent <hes>. I think it was ten percent of the students in twenty six team gene came from the upper one per cent <hes> and I pulled up this report from New York Times. I wondered if people remember the Social Mobility Issue New York Times reported on it u of M also ranked dead last amongst <hes> public universities for that metric and it would students moving from the <hes> moving up two income them quintiles <hes> after their degree and I just wondered <hes> do we think that that would be maybe a way to look back on this. Unfortunately it's moving forward looking back on it in ten years and seeing I would imagine that the social mobility will drop <hes> 'cause what I haven't heard talked about was students they'll go to fraternities fraternities and sororities which are exclusive but universities used to require students to stay in dorms the first year which did force mixing which I think is good occur society but do we think that maybe putting the Prophet I and looking at you universities as profit making machine we're losing sight of what their purposes for society society and we're not really forcing students to interact outside and there's already an issue here Taisho. Do we think it's just going to get worse so Brett. Thank you so much for that. Call Paul <hes> Professor Brown. Let me turn back to you here because I think Brett is very clearly getting it something which we did for a long time consider where the missions of university and again idealistic or not that it was an opportunity for people from different backgrounds to form new relationships <hes> and so if we're having more socio economic if we're having more socio economic stratification with these new kinds of housing Brett's asking is that going to inhibit the social mobility that could come or should come as part of the university experience right and I think his point is very well taken and he highlights something that I was trying trying to give words to it. Maybe double stratification might be a term here. He highlighted that there was stratification across organizations right that individuals who were attending the University of Michigan where <hes> advantaged in in many capacities but if you take that idea <hes> that's <music> single stratified but if if you take deirdre's idea that now organizations our universities are doing differential pricing rather than being stratified fight across schools what you're seeing now is further stratification within the school right so such that this group of students that might have more <hes> resourced <hes> resources available to their disposal get to live and these facilities and those individuals with fewer resources get to live in these facilities and as a result and what we don't measure in our study is because it's archival <hes> we don't get to measure or talk to the students right. This is a historical the thing that we did but what those groupings give you is access. They give you a network and that network can be leveraged. Sociologists Will Tell You leveraged later on in life whether whether that's <hes> for marital reasons or for labour-market reasons it can is leveraged. I mean that's the whole very <unk> seeking those networks correct yeah well well so deirdre. I'M GONNA come back to you here in just a second but let's go to Jesse who's calling from Somerville Massachusetts Jesse. You're on on the air. Hi thanks for taking my call. <hes> I'm actually a student at Tufts University in Undergrad right now <hes> and I wanted to emphasize decide that this campus housing inequality doesn't exist in a vacuum <hes> at tested spilling over into surrounding communities of Medford and Somerville <hes> and and having pretty bad effects on their housing markets <hes> really bad gentrification effects and so students on the campus have been working with community groups in Medford and Somerville on the housing crisis. That's affecting all of us now <hes> and for the past year students in what was called the tough Housing League has been organizing with communities to brainstorm solutions to this crisis but unfortunately I know that <hes> Brett just made a comment but universities are kind of profit making machines when we share Harry these concerns and ideas with us. The administration doesn't listen to US just stand by here for a second did don't hang up just hang on 'cause I WANNA get deirdre's <hes> take here on this because because she spoke with officials at Tufts about a housing at that university what's your response to what Jesse say well I know when I spoke with them. They were they were conscious about making sure sure that there was some sort of financial aid available for students as they were changing into a tier system but it was an issue in they were the housing group an organized student organization was fighting it and was arguing for <hes> less ratification so this is an issue that these universities are having to deal with you know there is pushback from students. There's pushback from the community around them so we'll Jesse I mean tufts is also said that it wants to add according to a European editor six six or seven hundred more beds and a needs to update existing housing to keep it a place that students want to apply to. What's your thought on that Yeah Yeah I mean they've already started those efforts of adding more beds the problem though is that they're making rooms that were previously singles and doubles and rims that we're previously doubles into triple so they're not actually building more housing there cramming more students into the amount of housing that they have so one of the demands of the Housing League was that they build a new dorm because again even with the financial aid that they are trying to push over into this new tiered system the more expensive on campus housing gets that's the more students move off and that affects the residence of Medford and Somerville who are being pushed further and further away from the Tufts campus because that housing is being taken up by students can can no longer afford to live on campus spillover effects? You're talking about. They'll there will jesse. Thank you so much for your call. Let's go to David WHO's calling from Atlanta Georgia David. You're on the air. Thanks for taking my call yeah. I was just talking as an older student. I went to college in the eighties and then also in the service and you know unless the the U._S.. Government is going to mandate that college is for everyone like high school then they're always going to have executive privilege always going to have someone that can afford more than someone else. You can't make it like in the service where you strip them down to. Everyone is the same so I don't know you know other than making housing you know trying to level it out as we got so many for the rich so many for the underprivileged people people housing than is the problem is always going to exist <hes>. I don't see how you're going to fix it. Yeah Well David. Thank you for your call so professor Brown David David saying the world always had haves and have nots thinking of that point professor. I'm wondering what would would you recommend the colleges and universities do because through the course of this hour we've also heard sort of the various pressures that that campuses are saying that they're they're facing. They need need to stay competitive need to make keep being attractive places for students to apply to. They need to upgrade their existing dorms. So how what would you recommend they do in order to achieve all that but perhaps but but while not stratified buying campus life. I think that it's going to require a very hard thoughtful. Maybe even painful look at their policies. How students are allocated within the residence halls else whether that's by choice again whether that's <hes> they have the opportunity to live on or off that first year those those social structures are going to be extremely important for matters of retention right so there's decades worth of higher education research wish that shows that the more student is engaged here? She is more likely to <hes> continue in persist at the university. The paradox comes as that when you build structures that are inherently isolating you begin to put deck what we know is decades of research <hes> into to sort of attention there you've got amenities and preferences on one hand <hes> where you have isolation and on the other hand those might undermined the the success particularly in the first year for students it might undermine the success whether that social success success or academic success I I would just encourage administrators that as they begin to look to build or continue to build these structures that they that they evaluate wait that and for those structures that are already erected <hes> what thoughtful or evaluative efforts can they undertake to begin to look at what's already already been built and how can the academic and social aspects be more <hes> given further attention. I I would give those. I don input for them so deirdre. You've just got about a minute left to go. I mean as you did this reporting. Did you come away with the feeling that <hes> that that it's inevitable that universities are going to continue to perhaps work with with more private developers to build this new housing. Yeah I mean I definitely I mean even <hes> some of the local universities here are exploring partnerships <hes> that haven't been public or just earn talk in talks about how to build new dorms was refurbished their dorms renovate a think that the costs are so high that it's almost inevitable because of cost hundreds of millions of dollars dollars to build these dorms that it's inevitable for them to start looking and exploring these partnerships and seeing it as a way to save money well <hes>. I'm GONNA give the the last lot here to comment on our website. <hes> I guess Hefei Sixty eight says the reality here is well colleges or structured as not for profit. The entire model is now based on a for profit corporate model and he's and Hefei says denying that is foolish. This is the problem the debt students are leaving with his out of control and win it crashes. It's going to bring down the economy with it. It's unsustainable well Joshua Brown professor of education at the University of Virginia and Lead Author of a a study published last month in the Journal Student Affairs Research and practice. Thank you so much for joining us today. Thank you and Deirdre Fernandez correspondent for the Boston Globe covering bring New England's education economy we have linked to her story on student housing and private developers at arm point Radio Dot Org Judy. It's been great to have you. Thank you so much. Thank you also I should let everyone know that while I was waxing nostalgic belt the cinder block and linoleum and cheap bunk beds of my freshman year a college dorm room. I'll

developer Deirdre History Fernandez Boston Boston Globe student Housing Development Co deirdre Tufts University Jeff Jeff Jones Capstone Development Partners US principal University of Virginia professor of education Deirdre Fernandes Brett Professor Brown facebook University of Massachusetts Bo Joshua Brown
Until Death: Raynella Leath

True Crime Brewery

1:15:04 hr | 9 months ago

Until Death: Raynella Leath

"True Crime Brewery contains disturbing content related to real life crimes. Medical Information is opinion based on facts of a crime and should not be interpreted as medical advice or treatment listener discretion is advised. Welcome to true crime Berbie. I'm Gel and I'm Dick. When things didn't go the way that Ray Nella lethal wanted she could be calculating even vicious but she could also be pretty charming after attempting to kill a man who considered her a friend and after two husbands died suspicious. Deaths the people where she lived in Solloway Tennessee wondered about Rinella many feared her or even warned others. Don't Cross Reyna. Rennell is actually a grandmother formerly married to a state prosecutor. She's quite well off well educated and a former director of nursing. It took years for her to go to trial for murder but despite a conviction she is now a free woman. Join US at the quiet end for until death. This is a complex story of justice system. That was probably influenced by money and privilege and it's about a woman who may have actually gotten away with murder not once but twice so we picked a beer from Tennessee and I went with push eight from southern Gris Brewing Company when we visited Nashville at probably was my favorite brewery. Just a nice place. We really enjoyed it. Push Eighty eight is an American. Ip a seven and a half percent alcohol by volume cloudy Orange Color Small Whitehead little touch of lace very nice citrus fruit aroma. And that's where the taste is citrus in terms of orange and Tangerine so nice sweet. Ip Yeah this is one of the better Ip as I've had according to my tastes I really enjoy it. I like the citrus. You're more into the fruity aspect and not much into the hops. The real aggressively hopped Winston. Don't really trigger too much now and maybe it's an acquired taste because you drink a lot more beer than I do but I'm also not enjoying anything with pine or smoke. Well no smoke here. This is great. So let's take this push eighty eight down to the quiet at and start our story. Okay I see that the quiet and is still a virtual quieten absolutely. We'll see who knows you think. May I really going to start opening things up again? Absolutely not probably not now but wait and see that one heck as a child. Rinella grew up in a small community outside Knoxville Tennessee. Rinella was the second child. She had an older sister named flow. Anna and two younger siblings. Marcus and Robin her parents do e Annie met in college. They married after. Dewey had enlisted in the Army Air Corps. Any Finish College. Do we want a purple heart? And after the war he continued his education. So Anne worked as a schoolteacher and do he worked for the US Department of Energy so he made some good use at his time. Back in college had a masters degree in Chemistry and Physics and he was very invested in a safe storage of nuclear waste. Sounds like a smart guy. Yeah absolutely and Rinella grew up in this ideal environment. It was virtually crime free. And this was a town where she and her siblings could. Just hop on their bikes. Anytime go downtown. See a movie or use the Community Swimming Pool. It was kind of one of those pre planned communities for the nuclear power plant scientists. So the kids didn't even know what their parents position was at the company. But that's pretty much what it all revolved around but they were also religious rain. Ls saying in the choir of the Baptist Church and when she was in elementary school her classes were segregated but her high school actually became the first integrated school in the south in nineteen fifty five so at least in part because of the large population of these government scientists. Rinella schools were quite exceptional. The science were excellent of course and the children began learning a second language by the time they were in the second grade so it really gave her a lot of advantages in life her. She was always at the top of her class and was taking all the advanced courses she could. She's also in the marching band spinner weekends at Football Games drive INS and other activities common in the nineteen fifties. Yes he just watch American graffiti. That was kind of what it was like. Right right yeah. Drinking was less of a problem than in most communities because this county they lived in was completely dry. Yeah that's amazing how to combat alcohol. Well I mean if you really want the alcohol you could drive out of the county and get it sure but it's certainly made it harder on the kids in a lot of their parents didn't even have booze in the house which. I don't know about you but the first blues I had I snuck from my parents. Liquor cabinet will. It's where you get it right exactly and there's not just a dry county but a lot of lot of Baptist people and they don't look at alcohol. Is that interesting anyway now? I think it might be a no no for them completely. It certainly not encouraged note therefore remark so after high school. Rinella went to East Tennessee State University as a nursing student while they're Rinella got good grades in competed in rifle shooting. Yeah funny when you think about Ed. Just the way said that. I'm thinking here's a student right getting the grid. So but yeah. He's a marksman let's Tennessee. It's the south right and. I think there's you know more familiarity with guns in the south or is that just a a cliche. No I think that's probably true. Yeah we'll why she was there. This is when she met her. First husband. William Edward Dos it and he went by Ed but young ad had a very different childhood. He had many losses in his life. And I guess the most dramatic I would say was his mom's death. This happened on Easter morning. Nineteen fifty six when Little Edie was just eight years old and he woke up in the morning to find his mother on the floor beside his bed. Dead of a heart attack and just two months later. His Dad died from cancer. So Eddie was an orphan and he ended up moving in with his aunt. And uncle was kind of tough Lou eight-year-old cured get up in the morning and mom's dead on the floor. Can you imagine it's just? It's horrible so he had a much rougher upbringing then ray Nella dead but he was just a real go-getter and as a child. Everyone said he was exceptionally kind in high school. He played some football but he also worked on the school newspaper and he was a member of several clubs. Once he was in his senior year he was given the award for the Best School Spirit. Then he went to college on a football scholarship and he continued to date his high school sweetheart in his freshman year. Everyone thought these two would get married but then he met right now at college in broke up with the girlfriend not an unusual phenomenon. Guess so ED graduated with a business degree. He and Renault got married when she was a senior in college. Now the story I always liked Nell is mom. She didn't approve of that and she apparently knew how to hold a grudge. But she didn't speak to Ed for the first thirteen years of their marriage. Well that's serious grudge holding right. Guess so you really love my mother-in-law. She doesn't talk to me. But when you look at the big picture it kind of makes you think Did Rain Nella get some of that kind of personality from holding grudges or well at decided? He wanted to be a lawyer and he started taking classes at the University of Tennessee Law School in Nineteen Sixty nine ray. Nella began working as a nurse after she graduated in nineteen seventy two at graduated from law school. He had inherited his family's farm. Both of his parents were deceased so he would call himself a farmer and a country lawyer. But it's funny he always said I'm a farmer I and a lawyer second even though he would really end up being very successful as a lawyer did a good job. He had quite a career absolutely really popular as well. It worked in criminal defending people in need. Yeah he liked to help the poor people. Then in nineteen seventy eight. Renaudot gave birth to their first child. Maggie dice it and they then moved to the family farm. Young family lived in a mobile home on the property. As Ed built a new house they worked hard. He built the house entirely from lumber from his own trees. He had an architect who designed the home and he had a contractor friend who advised him on how to do things but basically he built this place. So that's pretty impressive to me. Sure is in nineteen eighty two. When a district attorney general retired decided to run for that job and the funny thing is once. He entered the election. His mother-in-law had a change of heart. Suddenly Ed was an okay guy. Who's now worthy of my attention right? Which really got crate? But she enjoyed this attention and she would be photographed with him at campaign events as much as possible. But Ed took it in stride you now. That's my mother-in-law. Whatever I'm going to be nice to. Everybody and Rinella was a good wife. She was working really hard to help them with this campaign. So it's not like they were on the outsor- anything. The marriage was really good for a long time. And when Ed Din win this election the family celebrated the local. Sheriff gave Ed a five shot. Pistol telling him now. He needed a gun to protect himself. Because he's putting away bad guys and they might come after him but that wasn't a gun guy then the next year at an Rinella had a son William Edward Dawson Junior. So now the family had big Edie and little Edie Ed had a secretary named K and she was married to a guy named Steve Walker and the two couples K. In Stephen Ed. Ray Noah were friendly and they did some socializing from time to time when K had a son who they named Kevin in nineteen eighty four. She left her position and ED's office and Henry now had a third child whose name Katie born in nineteen eighty five so rinella never visited the walkers but ed ended up spending a lot of time there and you might ask why they spent a Lotta time why. He spent a lot of time there because he was screwing k. Well I'm just thinking you know. Things must have been not perfect with he and Rinella by then if he's out having an affair her maybe he was just bored who knows but K. was very fond of him and that's part of the issue. A lot of people think K. Was really in love with Ed. But he wasn't going to leave rain Allah and we don't know if that's because it wouldn't look good if he was afraid of her. Maybe we don't know. But then in nineteen eighty AK had a second son who she and her husband named Kyle and although her husband Steve Did know about it until years later kyle was actually Ed's biological child the product of this affair kind of love child. We didn't know about birth control too. Well I'm sure there was some knowledge of it but who knows. Maybe she wanted to have a baby kinda nasty to pass it off as her husband. Well I don't know Dick. I almost think it's kind. Maybe you don't agree with me but I almost think it's kind of a kind decision. What good is it going to do their family now? They have two sons. What good is it if she tells her husband? The son is not biologically yours and maybe she didn't even know one hundred percent. That's a possibility but I mean I'm just one of these people. I think sometimes not most the time but sometimes holding back. A harsh truth can be an act of love controversial. But it's how I feel I'm GONNA leave it at that okay now. Nineteen Ninety right now retired from nursing and she concentrated on raising her children and managing the family farm. Dave Leaf was a nice man. Who's a friend of ED? And he had a pool. Nello take your children. Today's house to swim in the summer other than that. There was really no connection between Renault and Dave while they were very different people. I mean she really valued education and Dave was a high school dropout. Who worked as a barber? Not that. There's anything wrong with that but it's a much simpler job than ads. Still Dave was very likeable and well known in the community is a good guy. You know that same year ED started to have stomach pains now. He said in a board meeting for local farmers that he had the meanest away from the world. Who's trying to kill him even though he didn't smile and he said everyone's still took it as a joke. They all understood. That Renault is a real force. Probably wasn't the easiest woman to live with. Now I mean what can you say about right Allah from what we know. She was wearing the pants in her home. No matter who she was married to and you didn't want across her she could hold a grudge dislike her mom. I guess but then tragedy struck in October of nineteen ninety one because that was admitted into the hospital he thought it was just for an appendectomy but during that surgery a Denno carcinoma was found on his appendix and too small intestine so they did some further exploratory surgery and they found that he had cancer. That had metastasized to several organs. It was just all over his abdomen so there was no chance of curing him of that but it was interesting to note that right now. I kept the news of Ed's illness for most people and people who knew Ed didn't think that was his choice. She did tell a select few people about the cancer but to everyone else she just claimed that Ed was recovering from a symbol surgery. And he would be back to work so she told people you know lay off. He's going to be fine. In March of Nineteen Ninety two had had a cousin named Elizabeth Peril. She came down from Illinois to see him. Except that Rinella wouldn't let Sam actually. She didn't even let her into the house. I can't even imagine that either. So then she turned around went home without ever seeing her cousin Ed after she'd been home for a few days she got a letter from Rinella. Saint at Ed was not well enough to have visitors. Elizabeth was pretty upset about this in disappointed. Cushy new ED wanted to see her but Rinella was nothing if not controlling. She's going to control the situation. The force there also seemed to be something about her about hiding illness. Because it wasn't only with Ed that she did that so early. June of that year Ed was still working and he even managed to get some state and federal funding to create a special DUI unit. Because d you is had become frighteningly common in Knox County and offenders. Were repeating the behavior over and over again before they even made it to core but still by July eds's health was really going downhill on July ninth. He was bedridden and he was on morphine for his pain so on the afternoon of July night. That three thirty Ray. Nahla called nine one one. She said that Ed had no pulse and she claimed that he had been trampled by his own cattle. She told the Knox County sheriff's detective that Ed had wanted to go down and see his cattle and she said that something must have set off the cattle because Ed was on the ground and the cattle were coming out of the corral when she looked Serena said she did attempt. Cpr and she tried to call nine one one from her cell phone but no one had answered so she'd run back to the house to call for help but she said when she got to the house she couldn't remember the phone number for the hospital which is a little funny because she'd worked at that hospital for years as a director of nursing but the only number she remembered according to her was to the local market so what she did was she called the clerk at the local market and asked him to call for an ambulance and when the ambulance showed up Ed was still in the field and Rinella was next to him. They rushed him to the hospital but he was pronounced dead on arrival. That's really sad. Because he's only forty four years old he was. I mean really. The prime of his life down the whole incident just was incredibly suspicious. People who had seen Ed within a week of his death claimed that he was in and out of consciousness and couldn't even walk on his own. So yeah how to get down to. The corral deceives cattle. That's a good question who claim that he had asked to go and see his cattle so somehow he made his way down there. According to her hair she walked him down there. I don't know there's also suspicion about a double indemnity clause in its life insurance policy. If his death was accidental Rinella would be awarded twice as much money. Some people speculated that Ed would have wanted it that way but regardless his death was ruled to be an agricultural accident. Yes this is interesting. Because the investigators knew ed personally and they believe that Raina may have taken him out to the field after he had already died but at the time they didn't believe that it could have been murder that didn't even cross their minds. Even though reanalysis story really wasn't believable. So this wasn't like the running of the Bulls. These were calm cows and the idea that they would stampede was just ridiculous but still investigators decided not to pursue further investigation. Mostly because of the respect they had for ad so as the widow of such a well regarded. District Attorney. Rain Ella was pretty much beyond reproach in this community. It's just a little weird to me if they don't believe her story and they figure well something's not right here. They didn't pursue it any further. Well I think the thought was that maybe add wanted to get double the money for his family and he had planned this and they didn't WanNa make a big deal out of it so they kind of wanted to allow a little bit of insurance fraud because murderer didn't seem to be even in their scope at that point but the medical examiner convinced Rena to allow an autopsy because the Insurance Company would want that in order to confirm his cause of death Ed Sternum and some of his ribs were fractured. His lungs had hemorrhaged and of course he had multiple tumors throughout his abdomen. He'd been on a morphine pump for that cancer pain. But that wasn't even mentioned. In the autopsy report he did have abrasions on his arms in his torso and there was also a mark on his overalls. That could have been interpreted as a hoof print but the cause of death was officially trampled by cattle. Even though his injuries didn't really show what it would be if cows were walking. I knew and that's just something cows don't do I don't think so. I mean I've spent some time with cows and they don't walk on a live person unless you know they're just penned in and they have no other choice but it's just not something that would happen. Mussa problem also with the medical examiner besides may be overlooking cause of death in Ed. How that was the minimum he Did has ethical problems putting it nicely. Now he'd been under scrutiny for years for writing too many narcotic prescriptions and he had taken a four month leave of absence and attended impaired physicians program because he admitted to having an alcohol and Narcotics Addiction. So it came to Ed's death Ray. Nalysts story varied. She had told a detective that she was so angry with the cattle after finding ed out there that she went and got a rifle from the house and shot one of the cows. Now this was just weird and even weirder after the police investigated. They couldn't find a cow there that had a gunshot wound. So why would she make such a strange story? I don't know yet. Her little sympathy. I guess it's just nonsensical the after his funeral Renault ahead buried on the farm burial and private property wasn't illegal in Tennessee as long as the property was deemed rural. So that's okay but as relatives were happy with the decision. They thought that ED wanted to be buried near his mother. And that Renault had simply disregarded his final wishes he and also many of the people at the house after Ed's funeral believe that right now behaved inappropriately. She was very chatty and laughing as if it was any other day then when one friend approached her to give his condolences Rinella shrugged and said well if he lived he would have had a lot of operations. So that was just a weird statement and sure as I mean above. The statement is the whole. Shrugging off thing. Yeah Yeah Oh well yeah. This is a gay. She'd been married to for years long. Time share then to make opinions of Renault worse in the town people's eyes she married. Ed's friend Dave Leaf just six months after its death so she was letting any grass grow into her feet. Now and this just set off some real problems in the community so little bit about Dave Dave Lee was only nineteen years old when he began his career as a barber. He married young and had a daughter with his wife. Peggy back in nineteen sixty three. After his boss died he and a friend took over ownership of the barbershop where they work and this was in the West Hills area of Knoxville. Dave liked to work on cars and go to what stockcar races. And he was a really doting father to his daughter Cindy but not an ideal husband in nineteen seventy his wife. Peggy learned that he was having an affair and she filed for divorce then later that year. Dave had a really serious injury. He was chopping wood when a splinter flew into his eye and when he finally went to the doctor his Iowa's very painful and swollen. You know he was one of these guys that waited and waited before he went to a doctor saying. Oh it'll get better. And when he was finally seeing he was diagnosed with a detached retina and the doctor told him he's never gonNA see out of that. I again her preview way to him. Yes and so after that the I. Atrophied and this was something that Dave would be forever self conscious about. He began wearing sunglasses almost all the time. And if you didn't have the mind he keeps his eyes down he just didn't want people to notice it very well. He was pretty aware of physical appearance. He wanted to look good. He worked out regularly. He'd had hair implants. He had a facelift and he had a tummy. Tuck so he's not your typical plastic surgery patient and barber from Tennessee. A man right. Yeah and a high school dropout right. Yeah but he did care about his looks. You sure did so. He remarried in nineteen seventy nine built this new house with a swimming pool. This is where Ray Nella would take the kids but one day Dave came home and found his second wife Debbie not. They're not only was debbie there. The furniture was not there in Debbie's belongings. Were not there. W left him but she is in love with another one another man. Yes so dave really went through a tough time after Debbie left any drank more than he should have but he had maintained a good relationship with his daughter. Cindy when Cindy married in nineteen eighty two. He was there to walk her down the aisle that in Nineteen Ninety. Cindy had a son. She named him Tyler and this was a big deal to Dave. He adored tyler and Tyler became a big part of Dave's life over school vacations. When Cindy had were Dave would take care of his grandson. Full-time David Been A PALLBEARER AT DASA funeral. And just a few months after Ed Steph August of Nineteen Ninety two Davis Rinella to go out on a date with him and then a few months later Dave told his family and friends that he and right. Now we're going to get married. A little bit of a shock to his circle of friends. They weren't a meadows too soon. After Ed's death and gave the impression that he and Renault had been seeing each other before a died. I think the common response was you know. Ed's night even cold yet. The body still warm. And you're moving on them. Yes but you know I have to kind of think that right now. It was more of the aggressor here just by looking at the two people in their personalities. Possibly but Rinella did have three kids who were still living in the home and that was a lot for Dave to take on but he was clearly in love with rain Ella. He signed a prenuptial agreement to protect her property and they married in January of Nineteen Ninety three and this is just six months after. Ed died so dave sold his house moved into the house at. Dasa bill and I it seemed that Rinella Dave were in love and care for each other. Dave built a greenhouse arena. And she bought him a fancy customized pickup truck with a horse trailer. They're seeing holding hands and they had only good things to say about one. Another but Dave's daughter Cindy was beginning to see signs of trouble after couple years of marriage when time? She found her father crying in his truck but he assured her that he and Renault. We're going to work things out. Yes Beck around this time. Nineteen ninety three things with the medical examiner Randall. Pedagogical had gotten worse. And this is the guy who did. Ed's autopsy yes and did kind of a Shitty job. Had some ethical issues. Heard some problems with narcotics while. Yeah but things got worse. He wasn't any longer prescribing narcotics but now he had ordered huge amounts of verse said Silverside. That's a drug. That's usually used before medical procedures surgery. It relieves anxiety. It makes you sleepy and also you don't remember anything right. You're this for sure I've had for said a couple of times. You have to. Yeah before surgery road. What a wonderful drug. Well when used correctly yes it does work well but it turned out that this medical examiner was inviting teen boys to his home. Injecting them with the drug. You know telling them he was giving them a hepatitis. B vaccine things like that but then taking advantage of them sexually. He was eventually found guilty and removed from his position. But still no concerns were raised about Ed Dawson's autopsy. The seems separate from the sky yet. But you know this is part of his work your true. So in December of nineteen ninety four rinella daughter. Maggie was fifteen years old and she drove the families pickup truck with her eleven year. Old Brother Eddie. In the passenger seat at an intersection less than a mile from the farm. Maggie fail to yield to another car and drove into a car. Eddie wasn't wearing a seatbelt and he was ejected out of the passenger side window. Unfortunately for Maggie shoes on a learner's permit so she was supposed to have a licensed driver with her when she was driving. And according to the accident report Rinella was in the passenger seat but she wasn't a first responder at the scene. Knew that Reno's not in the truck. As soon as she heard about the accident she rushed to the scene and lied to protect your daughter. A neighbor who has are one of the first people to arrive at the scene said Rinella wasn't there another woman saw the crash recognized the track and she's the one who drove up to the farm to bring Manila to the scene of the accident. Right so even though all these people know it's ally they're letting it go again. And this is the patter which I think is important in this story. When asked why she didn't tell the police that Rinella was lying. The neighbor said that he was actually afraid of her. He also thought that the police would never believe him. He was black farmer and she was a wealthy white prosecutors widow. So it's sad but probably true that nobody was gonna care what he said. You're right so all of those involved in the accident were taken to the hospital. And the driver of the other car was in critical condition. Rennell no surprise had no injuries. Maggie was treated for minor injuries and released the same day but tragically little. Edie died from his injuries. So Dave and Rinella were both pretty devastated Eddie. Sister Katie was very distraught. Also but Maggie who caused. The accident appeared on moved by her little brother's death so he's gone and he was buried on the farm next to his dad. So we have little Eddie ambig- Ed Sawyer Burswood side by side. So it's really tragic and you could feel some sympathy for arena. You're you're she certainly didn't WANNA lose their son no matter what you think of her. No she didn't know a month later. The district attorney recommended that the other driver have charges brought against him because he had been driving without a license following a previous Dui. And they didn't want any charges filed against Maggie Gusset but the Tennessee highway patrol didn't agree with us and in February of Nineteen ninety-five Maggie was charged for failing to yield. The prosecutor took the case to juvenile court and it was dismissed from their many people believe that Maggie had been given preferential treatment because she was Dasa so shortly. After Eddie died Steve Walker found out that his son Kyle was at Dawson's biological child care had taken him out to dinner and told him she was in love with another man and she wanted a divorce. She didn't tell them about kyle that evening but in their subsequent custody battle. K. 's lawyer said that Kyle was the biological son of adopts it and this was pretty stupid because Steve didn't really care I mean Kyle was still steve son and he willingly paid child support. Didn't treat him any differently than his older son. This was the first time though that Steve knew about canines but he would later believe that rain. Allah had known about it from the very beginning in April of nineteen. Ninety five Steve Walker got a call from a friend of Rinella and she told him that Rinella wanted to talk to him and asked him what He. Please come out to the farm. Once they're in Reynolds kitchen the two talked for about two hours and Rinella told him that she knew Kyle was at sun and then the two discussed their former partners in fidelity less than a week later rain. Ella showed up at Steve's work this was about eleven. Am So shortly before lunch. And she told him that she had found some stuff that proved his children. Were both Ed's. She said that Ed had hidden some papers in the barn related to his affair and related to the paternity of the children there. So Steve got into Renault's car and wrote to the farm with her as they pulled into the yard. They saw his mother at working in the garden. They chatted for a minute then. We Nele told her mother that she's taking Steve to the barn to show them something. Then according to Steve as they drove past Ed's grave rinella stopped the car and said to Steve. I'm sure you're mad at if you WANNA piss on his grave. I'll turn my head and let you do it. I wouldn't blame you so weird. I mean Steve Thought that was super weird and he said well no. I'd never do anything like that. Then once at the Barn Rinella pointed to a bucket and told Steve the papers were in there but when he went over to the bucket was just full of paint when he turned back around he saw that Ranelagh had wrapped a towel around her hand and was holding a revolver then she went ahead and fired at him twice shouting that she would kill him and K and she would raise the sun now really. Miraculously Steve Wasn't hit any ran away through some woods. Out into a pasture remember. He's way out in the country and he doesn't have a vehicle doesn't but then he heard Rinella car driving at him across a field and when she reached him she fired the gun again. She missed him but then she got close to him. He had fallen down and she aimed the gun at his head. She said that she couldn't miss him from there. But when she pulled the trigger again the gun just clicked. She was out of bullets. Group thing for Steve Super Lucky. Then according to Steve at that point Renault's demeanor completely changed. She said she'll get something rap. I sprained ankle. Told him to come up to the house and they could talk things over. Steve said that he didn't trust her. She needed to leave the gun and she did. She left the gun on the fence post so when Rinella what back toward her car. Steve grabbed the gun and ran. Well certainly she had plans to kill him when they got back to the house. You think I think so. He wasn't stupid. He took off so he stopped at a nearby house. No one was home. Then he hidden a covert as Rinella drove past looking form. So that's like a movie right here. It's just terrifying. She didn't find him. She drove into town and visited his ex wife. Kay while Steve was still hiding k. Called her children's Daycare Center until the owner. Don't let Steve Pickup our kids. He'd gone crazy yes so we don't know what. Rennell told K. but she apparently believed her. Finally Steve found a mobile home. Where an older couple answered the door. He asked to use their phone and he called a friend to come and pick him up. Now I personally would have called the police immediately. But his friend called the sheriff's Office and Deputies were sent out terrain Allah's farm to investigate this whole incident before they even showed up though Rinella had already called and reported that Steve had stolen her gun. So she's trying to get to them. I. She's Lou proactive here. Yes but she had a totally different story from Steve. Still the deputies were able to put together what had really happened. Rain Ella was charged with attempted murder. She did surrender to the police but she was released that same night on ten thousand dollars. Bail so steve was terrified. The whole time she's out. He's afraid she's GonNa come and kill him well. He's got a few alike. Hugest dodger huge than a literal bullet. He's on the ground. She's aiming the gun at his head is dead. Yeah I mean he certainly would have been your. I don't know what her story would have been for that one but it seems like she was just in some kind of rage and maybe didn't even care at that point but when she later appeared in court her attorney filed for dismissal of the charges win. Steve testified to what happened that day at the farm rinella shook her head enrolled her is like oh please but Steve had been terrified the whole time she was out on bail he'd actually been sleeping in a chair with a gun that he bought for protection in case she came back for him. Your ex so. In January of Nineteen Ninety six Rinella was indicted by a grand jury two weeks before her trial date. They reached a plea agreement. Renault agreed to plead guilty to assault. If the attempted murder charges dropped so she got six years probation and one hundred hours of community service and at the end of a probation assuming that she didn't do anything else. The charge would be dropped and removed from a record. Well this sentence was shockingly lenient that it is nobody else would have gotten that. Imagine if the positions had been changed. Steve had shot at her. He would have been in prison for life. I bet a not only is she wealthy and older and all that she's a woman so for all these reasons I think she was just treated with kid gloves. But of course this whole thing was a big relief for Dave Lee whose husband and his trying to deal with all these legal issues after that he was happy to be busy again cutting hair during the day and doing all his other projects during his off time and that August coupled destroyed their prenuptial agreement and they signed new wheels with their attorney. Noor invades will reign ella was named the executor and his new will disinherited. Cindy and left. Nothing knows grandkids. Reno is Gonna get everything. When days mother died Renault it also inherit the family home and property. Pretty good deal for Annella. Yeah well in the late nineties. Things seemed to be getting easier for. Dave. The stepdaughters were getting older and one of them went off to college but then in January of two thousand Dave was ill. He was having hallucinations and delirium so bad that he was hospitalized an MRI showed that he had suffered a mini stroke. He also had high cholesterol and he had herpes. Simplex encephalitis. So what can you tell us about? Those conditions encephalitis brain infection and herpes is one of those nights viruses that causes all sorts of problems that would certainly explain his solicitations and delirium and potentially fatal so is there treatment can fixed intrigue anti-viral Drugs and then the cholesterol. Everyone knows about that share. So we're going to follow diet exercise medication for that. But what about the mini stroke? I mean that can make you confused but does it make you hallucinate soon so for lettuce okay. Well in Dave's family visited him in the hospital. Rinella was angry and she told Cindy his daughter that she call her with anything that she needed to know. Otherwise beat it. You're all took care of but unmarked. I renew Ella went to cremation options and she met with the owner there. She told him that her husband was sick. And she prepaid for his cremation as well as her own. Dave retired from barring and his daughter. Cindy took over his chair. Cindy said that. He didn't seem all that confused. He seemed okay but he had retired because he had enlarged prostate and it was so bad that it required him to self. Catheter is himself every day. But still dave visited often at the barbershop he continued to work out and he continued to go into the tanning bed at the Y. Because he still wanted to look good. Choose medically this guy's a mess. Isn't he scared cholesterol problems? He's had a stroke his gut. It and satellite is such should have been treated is got a hypertrophic prostate is to Catherine is is dealing with a lot share on March eighth. He was readmitted to the hospital where he said that he was having short. Term Memory issues. She added that his very emotional and had a temper. Dave told the neurologist who saw that he believed Rhino is trying to kill him by smothering him but the doctor believed that Dave was demented and paranoid. So it's hard to really say what was going on here. Yeah it is. This could have been the result of the stroke could have been result of the satellites could be a combination of the two. I could also be right. Allah could also be Rinella when Dave followed up with the neurologist in late March has memory was better and he seemed to be in a better mood and he was talking about activities that he was planning to do that. In September of two thousand and two rain ellas record was expunged and she was off probation so now it says if the conviction never happened. She's got no record. Then Dave went to see the neurologist in October and he was much more stable and he seemed clear headed on his next appointment. Though in January of two thousand three Dave was crying and he was expressing a lot of frustration. He said he had a hard time verbalizing what he wanted to and he had pretty much stopped talking. Altogether so is. Illness really wasn't typical of Alzheimer's disease. But the doctor did suspect that as a possibility. That's probably just kinda throwing out a diagnosis. Because he didn't have an idea what was going on. Why and I would even consider that. He was being drugged. That's a possibility you've got kind of ups and downs symptom wise so later that month. Rinella went to the hospital in order to have hysterectomy she told. Dave can drop me off. But I don't much visit me weird. When he went to pick her up the next day he learned that she had underwent actually double mastectomy as well as a hysterectomy because she'd been diagnosed with Breast Cancer Davis Pretty Shocked and upset. That Renault had told him this. Well this is a very big deal right for a double mastectomy is a huge surgery. Plus just the emotional side of that and the fact that she had cancer so she was very weird when it came to diseases and illness Rosenstiel. Yeah but she'd started making notations in her appointment book about Dave's Daily Moods and his behavior and in February Dave's mother was diagnosed with ovarian cancer for some unknown reason. Rinella told Dave's relatives that she was only in the hospital for a minor procedure and she didn't have cancer so here we go again here. She does have some issues with medics medicine. Right and with honesty so cindy spoke to her dead on the phone on. March tenth on the twelfth. They've got together with a friend and they made plans to haul a load of mulch the next day at that time. When he was with the friend he seemed completely oriented in a really good mood so the following morning around nine thirty. Rinella went to the hospital with flowers for her mother-in-law now Mine Ju- She'd never gone to visit her alone before normally she'd let Dave visit his mother alone. She might even wait out in the car but that day she was seen on more than one of the hospital floors almost like she wanted to be seen right and the other thing that was unusual was cindy got a call from Renault. That same morning asked to Cindy at Saint. Her father she hadn't so cindy if something was wrong and Rinella totally head neatness breakfast and she didn't want him working out at the Ymca on an empty stomach. But there's no reason for her to believe that Cindy would have seen him. No when she left the house he was. There wouldn't be any reason necessarily for Cindy to go SAM so at eleven twenty three. Am less than two hours after that raid Allah calling nine one one from the farm. Dave was dead in his bed from a gunshot wound to his head but three shots have been fired. Which made investigators suspicious? It wasn't impossible but it was very unusual to save loosed Dave's daughter Cindy and Daves cousin. Freda arrived at the farm. Raina talk to them. She talked about his suicide his depression and his dementia. But none of this matched what Cindy had seen with. Her Dad Dave's friends and family just didn't believe that he had shot himself for one. Thing gave hated guns and he was afraid of them. His father had taken him hunting when he was younger but he really never shot any animals. He was also so proud of his looks. He wouldn't have wanted to be found like that. No no with gunshot wounds to his head and another weird thing is that Dave was right handed but he had apparently shot himself with his left hand above his left eye. Which was blind. Your. That's the with the detached retina so the medical examiner determined days. Death was not a suicide. When Rinella held days memorial service? People were shocked that he'd been cremated. Because David believed cremation was wrong and cremated. People could not go to heaven so an the suspicions grew even more. When they found out that Renault had driven to the crematorium and paid for the cremation before he died. So after Dave's Steph authorities did begin to investigate the cattle trampling death of her first husband at Dowsett. The new medical examiner reviewed the toxicology report from Ed's autopsy and concluded that he actually died from an overdose of morphine not from a cattle stampede. At the time of his death at was taking a lot of morphine for his pain for his cancer but he had a lethal dose of morphine in his bloodstream. The injuries that were supposed to be from cattle hooves were nonfatal and the broken sternum and ribs were believed to have happened during resuscitation attempts so charges were obtained for the murder of Egg Dasa but first rate Allah was going to be prosecuted for the murder of her second husband. Dave leave so Renault's live in the lecture she's going to be charged with two murders and she was charged with attempted murder. Oh those charges were reduced with the plea agreement long. They're totally dropped as if they didn't exist at this point right so April Dave's mother who moved to a nursing home now. Rinella seemed to be constantly at her side. She wouldn't allow Cindy or Cindy's kids to visit. Rinella told the nurses at only medical staff and she would be allowed in the room but the next day before days mother was transferred to another nursing home. She died Cindy thought. This is really strange. And even given the other circumstances give some that Renault might have killed her grandmother. Dave's mother yeah and there's no proof of that but it is a little weird. Isn't it certainly move on April Twenty First? Rinella s Cindy to meet her in the lawyer's office and the lawyer told Cindy that her father's original will was missing for over thirty years. He made it his normal practice to have the original kept by the client and to keep a copy in his office but now Rinella was saying that she couldn't find the original so the lawyer read. Dave's will out loud and Cindy learned that. She and her children had been excluded completely. She couldn't believe her dad would leave the family property to rain. Allah and not his grandchildren. Serena was the only person who was benefiting financially from Dave Steph. So of course that just made suspicions grow absolutely in the summer of two thousand. Three subpoenas were issued for evidence for a grand jury. The nothing happened and in two thousand five Dave leafs homicide was still an open case. Cindy was in the belief that Renault's social standing and wealth were protecting her and she called Steve Walker to talk about the day when Renault had tried to kill him and he told Cindy. Leave this alone or your life would be in danger. Yeah this Steve Walkers Kinda Funny. We saw him on a forty eight hours episode about this and it was kind of funny the way he tells the story even though it was so serious but he certainly thought that Renault was a dangerous person. Remedy certainly did so. Cindy wrote a letter to the DA about her father's case a Knoxville paper reported that after a month Cindy still had received no reply. So they met with Cindy in the investigators involved but still nothing new was done. So let's go to two thousand six and Cindy filed a Civil Lawsuit Against Rain. Ella claiming that she had killed Dave lied or she had hired someone to kill him virtues responsible for his death right exactly but she didn't ask for compensation. It was just an attempt to void. Reynolds inheritance of the family property and the court decided that if Rinella was found criminally responsible for Dave's death then she would have to forfeit her inheritance so in November two thousand six indictment was issued charging Reno with the premeditated homicide of David Leaf. Rinella was freed on bail of five thousand dollars and no court date was set. So it still seems like. They're being awfully lenient with her. She's indicted for premeditated murder and five thousand dollars. Bail with no court date in the near future. Be Five thousand dollars was nothing to her. She was she was very well off. So I don't know where she was getting such favoritism but it certainly seems that she was absolutely in December the court ruled. The Dave's knew will wasn't valid so his only child cindy would receive half of the estate. You're going in September two thousand seven. Ray Noah entered a not guilty plea in Criminal Court. She went to trial in March. Two thousand nine for the murder of David Leaf. A mistrial is declared when the jury was unable to reach animus verdict. Final Count Actually was eleven for conviction and one for not guilty so she came close there. She came close so they headed trial a second time. In January of twenty ten. The medical examiner testified that Dave was shot once in the forehead above his left eye. That was his blind eye. The shot was fired from twelve to fourteen inches away. She testified and she told the jury that toxicology testing showed a mixture of four medications in his system. That left him too weak to get out of bed so she concluded that Dave Lee was unable to kill himself or even defend himself. It was impossible for Mr Leith to shot himself. The Emmy testified. Mr Leaf was incapacitated. She was unable to determine a precise time of death but she estimated that he had died sometime after six. Am on the day. His body was found. Now the lead police investigator with Sergeant Perry Moyers. And he testified. There'd been no fingerprints found on the gun so he concluded that would be highly unlikely if Dave had committed suicide. Yeah and if he'd had to try three times. Why wouldn't his fingerprints beyond that gun? Should have been sergeant moyers. Also testified dates body appeared to have been tucked into the bed where his found and the clothes dryer was running when officers arrived at the same. So this suggested that Rhino may have changed her clothes after she shot her husband in order to get rid of blood or gunshot residue. Well she certainly had the opportunity to run. The defense presented evidence that on the day of Dave's death. Renal is youngest daughter. Katie left for high school at Eight. Twenty a m renal and Dave had then watch televangelist. Joyce Meyer on TV. Rinella than made breakfast for Dave and put clothes in the dryer before she left home but that would not explain why the dryer was still running. When police came it was determined by phone records. That renou had called Cindy at nine fifty. Am that morning to tell her that she was visiting. Dave's mother the hospital. She then told Cindy that she was concerned that Dave may have gone to the gym without eating his breakfast. But when you think about it. This call was made just twenty minutes after she left the House. So that doesn't make any sense nor doesn't the defense actually presented evidence from the hospital personnel confirming? That Rinella was at the hospital at that time but right now had said. She left David Home with his breakfast on a bedside table. So why would she even think that Cindy would have seen him plus? I mean just visiting. Her mother-in-law was very odd. This was the first time and the only time that Renault had ever called Cindy at work to nothing. She's done that. Morning is in character for her. Know it all seems like she's trying to create an alibi. Yes so Rinella had taken some medication to the high school after she left the hospital. Katie had called the teller that she wasn't feeling well. So records at the high school confirmed that Renault had stopped at the school to deliver the medicine and she left a ten forty five in the morning. She stopped took a neighbor after she parked in a driveway then she went into the house and found her husband's body. Nine one one call came in at eleven twenty three in the morning while the jury never heard about F- DOWSETT staff or Steve Walkers attempted murder. Because that wasn't allowed the prosecution said that Rinella had drugged her husband the night before shot him after. Katie left for school and then position the gun on the bed trying to make it look like a suicide. Then she'd gone off and spent the rest of the morning developing her alibi. So on January. Twenty Fifth Twenty Ten. After two days of deliberation the jury convicted. Allah of first degree murder and she was sentenced to life in prison then. The prosecution dismissed the charges against her for murdering her first husband. I guess they just thought they didn't need to bother with that or I guess she's got life in prison share and it was. An older case may be less the case to present to jury. Maybe ain't her lawyers filed a motion for new trial but that was denied but then in twenty thirteen another appeal was denied in. Twenty Fifteen Rinella was represented by new defense team and they filed a petition for post conviction relief and they sought a new trial so their position was based on medical records that were not entered as evidence at her trial. These records would have shown that Dave had been diagnosed with dementia back in two thousand two. He had been prescribed medications but his condition had still been deteriorating. One month before Dave's death. His neurologist had noted that he was having increased mood swings memory loss and feelings of frustration and inadequacy the petition also mentioned that after rain ellas conviction. A former sheriff's deputy told a defense investigator that when he arrived at the house. After Davis body was discovered he saw police officer walk out of the House carrying the gun. That had killed Dave so this had happened before crime. Scene Technicians had arrived on the scene and this statement called into question. The prosecutors claim at trial that the gut had been placed on the bed in a way that looked staged now. This deputy later recanted his statement. But gave no reason for that change Interesting so the petition also claimed that the deputies original story have been confirmed by another witness a paramedic who is a first responder. The paramedic gave a statement a sworn statement that before any crime scene technicians were on the scene. He saw deputy holding a gun and he heard another deputy say that the weapon was removed and secured so the defenses petition also included evidence from a professor pathology who read the emmys autopsy report and reviewed the toxicology results. The professors conclusion was the medications in days. Bloodstream were within the therapeutic range. Which meant that? Dave couldn't have been drugged by his wife the night before his death and he wouldn't have been incapacitated by the medication. So that's a big deal at another important. Part of the defenses petition was the fact that the trial judge had been under the influence of narcotics during the trial. The judge was later convicted state and federal charges relating to his addiction and abuse of oxycontin. The petition show that from December thirtieth. Two thousand nine to January twenty fifth two thousand ten. This is the time period of Reynolds. Second trial the judge was prescribed at least one hundred fifty oxycontin pills by one doctor. But that's not all at the time he was also getting more oxycontin from various court staff and even from drug dealers so this really messed things up your to me. That's all up more of a problem than where the gun was. Well sure I think that was probably what really put things over the top because she was granted a new trial in May of two thousand sixteen based on the judge being impaired by drug use during her trial and she was released on bail pending her new trial. Now why was she released on bail? Because I've heard of many people who have to stay in prison waiting for their new trial. Which is she got a lot of favouritism giving birth to her being the wife of attorney and upper class white woman all these things. Yeah so the prosecution prosecuted Reno again in two thousand seventeen. They had evidence including blood spattered expert. Who testified that Dave was not lying in the bed but was actually in a sitting position when he was shot? The defense insisted that the evidence showed David shot himself. The defense attorney had the bed and headboard brought into the courtroom where he demonstrated how Dave could have missed with the first shot killed himself with a second and the third shot was from a postmortem spasm so this was a lot of drama bringing in the bed the bloodstained mattress. Acting it out asking an expert. Could this have happened but to me? It's just a lot to believe that all this happened. He missed he shot himself. But then somehow his hand spasms and shadow third chat hard to believe removed Miras but a lot of that would still be questioned to the prosecution. The revolver used to kill Dave Lee was really critical. A former Tennessee Bureau of Investigation agent took the stand for the defense to explain the evidence so a picture of the open revolver cylinder from the crime scene showed that the three fired rounds had hammer strikes in the middle of the bullet casings. So little dense that you could see and the other rounds didn't have those marks because they hadn't been shot but there's a clockwise rotation of the revolver cylinder that would show you the order of the shots so the first two cartridges were from Silver Remington bullets and those two were found in the wall and in Dave's head. The third was a gold winchester bullet. And that's the one that was found in the mattress which was believed to be the third shot. So this meant that. The third shot had been fired. After Dave's brain stem had been severed by the second shot. The medical examiner said that was impossible for Dave to have pulled the trigger on the third shot because he just shot himself in the head but the defense would argue that surprisingly there are multiple shot suicides. That do happen. The defense attorneys demonstration of how the death could have been a suicide contradicted the emmys testimony but the defense brought up at trial that there was no way to be certain that that revolver cylinder head been opened or turned which would have meant. The order. Couldn't be determined. That would be irrelevant so the defense did come up with some good arguments. Yeah I guess. I don't know how you can argue that. There's no way to be certain. The cylinder hadn't been opened returned. If you're trying to make it a suicide there's no reason for it to been opened. Her turned right. But you really can't prove that that didn't happen. I know but you can use your commonsense. Cher you're right that's true so also in the third trial. The medical examiner maintained that his death was a homicide but she was no longer able to testify that the medications in his system. Where INCAPACITATING? So this would explain. Dave was in a sitting position when he was shot. If it's a homicide who had heard the first shot sat up to defend himself so that makes sense to me. Who and what about Reno is called a cindy on the morning of days death? Yeah that's really weird. Because she never called Cindy. It's not like they were friendly so when someone changes their behavior like that that's a real red flag to me. It certainly is. She never called Cindy at work before. Never an she'd never visited her mother-in-law in the hospital before also she called Cindy so soon after she left the farm like twenty minutes so it does sound like she was putting together some kind of Alibi. That does so. After closing statements the jurors had been given instructions for their deliberations. The defense made emotion to dismiss the charges for lack of evidence. This is something that happens pretty much every murder trial Cher. I mean they stand up and they do that right. Yeah and pretty much always the judges rule against it not this time in a real shocker. The judge agreed that the prosecution had a lack of sufficient evidence and it failed to meet. Its burden so the judge acquitted. Renault right. So that's it and that's it schnookered you charged again. So the prosecution and Dave's family members are just stunned and angry and after this acquittal the finding of not guilty was final. I mean there's no appeal. There's no way to change that. Nope she's a free woman. So this judge was Paul Summers and he found that even if Dave Lee did not commit suicide there was no evidence that Rinella was in the house when the three shots were fired. Also there was no motive and the prosecution. He said had no time of death established so in an interview with Erin Moriarty on the forty eight hours. Tv Show Judge. Summer said that if he was the prosecutor he wouldn't have taken this case to trial because there wasn't enough evidence and he said he was concerned that jurors might be swayed by emotion and make the wrong decision so it was his job to acquit her. It can say wow yeah. I feel pretty certain that she killed him. Evidence certainly looks that way and yet this is the third trial so one trial. The mistrial was eleven to one in favor of her being guilty. She is convicted in the second trial. Twelve two zero and had this trial going though. I don't know why the judge felt like he wouldn't have brought to trial and acquitted her. Think it should have gone to the jury. Well the jury would agree with you. A few members of the jury were interviewed in that forty eight hours episode and they were upset that it was taken away from them and they all believe she was guilty to so maybe there was some emotion based on that I mean. The evidence wasn't ironclad. No it wasn't but I think the explanation for the bullets gunshots. That had been fired to me is more indicative of a homicide than a suicide. Yes it her behavior that morning. Yup Very questionable. So maybe they'll reopen the original case of the first husband. That's possible but I don't know I mean she's in her sixties now and Ed's family really isn't advocating for that so I don't know if it'll ever happen. But our sources for this case were the National Registry of exonerations. That is a summary of her case. Put together by Maurice positively in June of twenty seventeen. There's the forty eight hours episode. I referenced titled The Widow On Solloway Road from July twenty eighteen. There is a book by Diane Fanning titled. Her deadly web there is also quite a bit in the Knox News Online archives. Tacb's music was written and produced by trysted. Capelle so my least favorite part of the show are these businesses. He updates but I know you have a couple of things to say so. Let's do that before we go to feedback. Okay so the first thing is in some of you may have noticed that the newsletter got published. Recently this is the quarterly newsletter. Second one we did one in January in this one just a day or two ago it goes over some things to keep your mind occupied while we're quarantined. Some good true crime things to look on. Nice little article written by one of our listeners and about interviewing a murderer. Yeah that's my favorite part of it. Mix will be in July. Yes so this is set to anyone who went on our website and signed up to get the newsletter. And if you signed up and you haven't received it check your spam or junk folder. Because that's probably where it is. It was sent out last Wednesday and I checked on Thursday and only about half of the people had opened it. So it's a possibility. It's in your junk folder. Also are Bir Review contest is coming to an end. I think I'll do another week or so and then I'll get into may make a decision about who's got the one. I like. Okay so you want to give it to like what may tenth so I would hope to any. Submissions will be by the end of April April thirtieth. And then I'll take a week or so to listen to them all again and pick a winner okay. I'll play the winner on an episode play winner on an episode. Probably somewhere in the middle of May. And if I can find a case to do that would match the beers location. We'll do that so we could just use the listeners review for the episode gives you a break. We could try that. Yeah okay. Why are you interested in getting some extra ad free episodes of tea? Cbs supporting the show. If you are it's cheap and easy wasn't that your nickname in Highschool Dick Cheap and easy actually knows easy yes but it was also expensive. Okay OUR COMMERCIAL. Free members only episodes come out every month. Plus there's a huge backlog of over forty episodes that are all yours to listen to as soon as you sign up and you can be a tiger member for as little as four dollars a month. Also when you join. We're GONNA send you a welcome to the brewery gift with a handwritten note because we do appreciate our subscribers very much. If you're interested at all just go to our website. Tigr Dot Com and click on subscribed to learn more. So we're moving onto feedback if you happen to have a case suggestion or some comments about a crime or even a beer. We encourage you to send us a voicemail. We have a widget on our website. It's on the right side of the screen. You can click on that record your message or recorded on your phone and send it to us in an e mail. If you're too shy for either of those please send us an email with your comments or suggestions to true crime brewery at Tigr Ever Dot Com. So what did you bring us for feedback today or got some emails from people. All the voicemails. If come in recently been berry views which is wonderful which is great. I truly appreciate that but I don't have any voicemails in terms of comments or case suggestions so go with emails okay. So the first one is a case suggestion from Christine and Christine Rights. There's a lot of just praise here broker. I have suggestions for you guys if you haven't already covered it. It's the case of Kim need year old girl from Poplar Montana. She was found brutally murdered in nineteen seventy nine at a popular teenager hangout. Spot by poplar river buried beach a seventeen year. Old Neighbor boy was eventually prosecuted. It sentenced to one hundred years for this crime after confessing to her murder as well as the murders of three other women. Beach claimed that he was forced into confession by local police and continues to maintain his innocence for thirty five years now. He was eventually released in twenty fourteen and has since been suspected of other crimes. There are several suspicions involving this case and I hope it interests you but I just WanNa say thank you for all your hard work and I look forward to listening to you guys every week. Thank you Kristie interested case. There's a lot of literature who so I think we'll consider this Cher. It sounds like a good one. I really would like to do more cases where the guilt is questionable. Whether it's a little bit more of a mystery to it. Yeah that's certainly one thing and then if you've been professing your innocence for thirty some years why would you get in trouble with the low when you finally do get released? Yes in incentive to go straight. That's something to think about sure but will look into that absolutely so the second email is case suggestion from Casey. Yeah Casey had written s actually twice this a youtube request and just a general email request knows looking at her email and thinking. This would be a good when to publish and she left the Youtube went so succinctly. Casey said do an episode. I'm Peter Curtin and Mikhail pop cuff all right. So what's with this? What's the story there? Both serial killers one from about one hundred years ago and one from five or ten years ago so there other than being serial killers. They're not related to each other. Peter Curtin was convicted of killing and sexually assaulting several women into Cil dwarf Germany in Nineteen Twenty nine. He was also called the vampire of Dusseldorf because he drank the blood ill so he was charged convicted and killed. He was beheaded on the Guillotine. Don't have too many people that go to the Guillotine. Now that's what they're shell certainly yeah and Mikhail. Popcorn was a Russian guy and he was convicted in the murders of seventy eight women loud. And that's probably an underestimate. Really kill that many people and not get caught sooner. Don't know it's just terrifying now. He was sentenced to life in prison. Because the Russian justice system doesn't allow for executions and his cute little nickname was the werewolf. Lie was that because he toward because some of the things he did to the dead bodies. All right we'll thanks. Casey does some suggestions. I've never heard of before very original. Thank you will look into those absolutely. So what else do you have to say today? Dick any advice for people from your wise mind. Keep your distance found scared while I hope everyone is safe and doing well and we'll see you next time at the quiet end will be there by by Burgers are guys talk

Rinella Rinella Dave Stephen Ed Renault Cindy Dave Dave Lee Steve Tennessee Ella Daves murder ED Ray Nella Steve Walker Knoxville Dave Leaf Katie
Stephanie Grey - Meet The Author - A Witchy Influence

MinddogTV Your Mind's Best Friend

1:21:13 hr | 4 months ago

Stephanie Grey - Meet The Author - A Witchy Influence

"What is a witchy influencer? We'll find out on this episode of the mind on TV podcast. and. Dog TV podcast. On Napa. Thanks for coming. It's great to have you here as always but Dina a one of my cats is crawling through my legs at this moment in biting may trying to get my attention I think she knows my guest is here that's I for some reason, the Cat Oh, they should go. She wants to get on on TV now every night at eight pm she seems to want to come in here and get some attention I. Don't know why to doesn't bother me during the daytime edition, but she's here now Two weeks ago today, it was Chris Perez from SAS research was with me. And he has a product called my vital sea comes into forms actually bottle. We take kind of like a whiskey shot from it. And this kind of stuff and I take him twice a day. Do the shot once in the morning or the afternoon edition I've been doing. And this kind of portable shot at night and I don't mean shot by needle I mean like, whiskey. And the claimed, and by the way, this is not a sponsorship or product promotion in any way But the claim he made for this product was that he discovered this carbon molecule or it was discovered back in nineteen ninety one when he was still Grad student at. Texas State University near Houston and It in toxically tests on small mammals they found that it not only was it not toxic in any way, but the mammals they tested on increase their lifespan by ninety percent or more essentially doubling how long they would live, and so it was stayed in testing for a long time tested on humans and released the product by the end the approved by the FDA in two. Thousand Thirteen and you have been using it ever since and so the clan Dr that also that the mammals lived completely tumor free, which is a great thing but it's not made as a not being positioned as a cure for cancer but it just so happens that none of these mammals to developed any to Michelle humans have been using it for seven years now. And claims that it can prolong your life drastically. And make you feel better and give you more energy and keep it keep your cognitive abilities intact for as long as you live. So it's it's extraordinary claim and as you know extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence and me being skeptic. Sounds kind of too good to be true air CRISCO and he said, well, what how about this? How about you try it I have me back in six or seven weeks and we'll discuss how you feel about it. So I've been on it now for twelve days. And I have to say the first today's would not well be didn't start out well for me. was due to a unrelated back problem that I had but since then felt really really good really good increased energy sleeping better So. unequivocally attributed to the stuff. No not yet but I can tell you things have gotten better. I've been feeling really really good had a lot of energy I. Don't know I'm thinking any more clearly or less clearly, I don't think I ever thought that clearly be with to be honest with you but so I want to try this again and I'm doing it on. Online on on the air only as a way to keep myself accountable because if I don't do it on the probably forget to do it in the whole experiment will be for naught. So here it is. Now I will tell you if you've been following for the last twelve days you know this already but the one drawback, the only negative thing I have to say about it. Is that it tastes so bad that if I have to do it for another seventy years or so. I just as soon die tomorrow It's really really terrible. So I have a little icy chaser here when I'm going to take it just to. See. The experiment right so he here goes Do I look young? I don't feel any younger at this moment, but it generally takes about an hour to kick in. And then you start feeling more energy Enya. Feel more vibrant and radio go radio. Attack Life to the fullest So but I'm really really digging it and I. Feel Great on it so far. The only drawback is a taste tonight I have a guest that. Is going to. Talk about her new book she was. The first author I had on the PODCAST. Before we started this stream your thing it was just a actual phone conversation that we recorded and My mission at the time. Was To promote literacy because I always say I've had this feeling that reading has become. Sort of a lost art in in America and and what we do so I'm going to be. Happy to introduce you to her in just one moment right now I wanna talk about my sponsors. Fun, wise capital you know about them I've been talking about him for seven weeks. Now they're a business lender matching platform help you get money For Your Business in these troubling times and It's a great solution. So Lyndon matching platform that get you the best credit lines guaranteed. You can apply online and sixty seconds or less, and there's no effective credit score whatsoever to see how much can get. US The funding for anything you need to start or grow your business. That's I should start or grow your business and I, pointed right at the screen. So you know it's true. Meaning if you don't have a business, but you have a solid business plan, you can get funding for it and you get money for whatever kind of sought a project that you have. Long as you got qualified business plan get the best funding. You can qualify for the strategic lender matching platform searches through hundreds of lenders to find the very best possible option for your. Unique situation. They have hundreds of five star reviews on Google Trust pilot and facebook, and an a plus rating with the better business bureau They provide unseal unsecured lines of credit at zero percent interest for nine to fifteen months unsecured term loans loans based on income short-term gap funding, and bridge lawns. Work was real estate startups as they mentioned franchises restaurant, any kind of. Business any kind of project get started it's really easy. Just go to apply that online dot com slash dog that's apply that fun wise dot com slash mind dog and I do appreciate you patronizing my sponsors My stepdaughter is getting married tomorrow and I posted on social media a little while ago or this afternoon that her and her fiance ten of them. Are eloping and I fully support that and I think every wedding should in the world should happen that way and somebody said to me congratulations but isn't a local kind of supposed to be secret. You're not supposed to know about and maybe he's right My definition of it is a loping means you're going to do a small ceremony somewhere and dad's not paying for it. So I support that one hundred percent. So I congratulate the kids tomorrow's The for day of their new I've and It's going to be a small ceremony and I don't know where it's going to be and I'm with that Time of my guess now I as I mentioned she, she was my first author guest on this program back when we first started and she actually taught me to say, Appalachia correctly, pronounce it correctly before that time I was saying Appalachia Appalachia and oddly enough I've had a chance to use that word at least ten times program and teach other people nor northerners mostly like me the proper pronunciation. So I I'm thrilled about that. Stephanie. Gray is graduate of East Tennessee State University hours was a degree in journalism just like me Writing has always been her passion just like me anti enjoys exploring different genres, her debut novel, the Immortal Putin's Blackwood about an immortal hunting serial killers and rave reviews. From readers and is quickly becoming a cult favorite. Her new book is out tomorrow ordered a preordered the kindle and I can't wait to get it actually coming tomorrow it's It's available in a lot of different places including Amazon and from her website publisher's website, which we will this all of the places where. You can get the book in the description but for now, ladies and Gentlemen, please open the ears open your minds and helped me welcome in stepney greater. The might not be podcast seventy whether. It's good to finally see you I we've met before, but I only I only heard you. I'm really glad to see your podcast. It's really it's been awesome. I really liked he had recently. Oh, thank you. Thank you very much. It's it's great to. Get some positive feedback I get a lot a lot of hate mail and it's it's a very weird thing for me to to deal with not necessarily hate directed at me hate it. Some of the subjects I've covered hated some of the responses in a lot of hateful war The Way I've let some some guests just kind of sliding and express their opinions on challenge. So it's great to hear some positive feedback. Thank you. Know, what you can't please everybody. So it makes you happy fought the rest of them because. That shoe and It's a hard thing for me as an artist and I'll. Writing is an art and you probably have some of this kind of sensitivity to one. One negative review can can destroy a thousand positive reviews. dukes. Yes it. Can I mean I I? I still look at the reviews on good reads it Kinda tickles me pink a little bit to see some mom you know like I've been looking at some of the advance reviews for which Lee influences coming out tomorrow I have to laugh at some of them because some of the people are disappointed that is not a ROM com. And if they knew me. I can't do romance I don't want to write about it. There's a scene in my first book where she kisses the guy in that was so hard to write but stabbing him, that was really fun I. enjoyed that. But. The sorry readers will never see a rom com for me. You know that that's interesting because I was going to bring up the fact that your stuff has a kind of. Paranormal bent to it a little bit and I've had I. Think Eighty Authors on since you've been on, which is quite a bit. And almost, I. would say more than half of them have this kind of paranormal stuff but it's always tied to either comedy or romance in some way. A lot of loud ladies who write about Vampires and ghosts especially want to include romance in it for and I I was GonNa ask you if this book had any of that element because I was always curious like why why are so many young women Attracted to this idea of a sexy vampire or sexy ghost. I actually read an article about the been awhile since I've read it. But I think what they said was you know it's the the thought of immortality and having this romance that lasts through the ages but you know I'm also. Opposed a while back that said, nobody wants to read a romance to the people that mean together for you know at least a year more because nobody wants to read about people farting and bit. Well, let's to nobody wants to read about it. Nobody wants to be there when it. It just. But that's what I read an article about you just. They want this amazing romance lasted ages and we all know the truth like. It's not the same as it is in the beginning. You know it's it's definitely it involves rule of involves some reason people they don't Wanna read about the evolution of the love. Really, cheesy on. Sorry. I you know and I, mentioned that. In, Ula Lynch are there that you taught me how to say Appalachia correctly and then? Like out of the Blue I mean we started getting all these guests on who were talking about the Appalachian trail and that part of the country but they would pronounce it like I used to pronounce it Appalachia and I. I was like, Wow, I've learned something now feel smart when I actually helping people pronounce and one guy from the northeast Christopher Noel who wrote a book on it does all this. Nature stuff he he he still says Appalachia APPALACHIA. But he knew about Appalachia he was he was just proud to to to find out that I knew about two and then we could actually say correctly together but he felt like he had to say Appalachia So I appreciate you giving me a little bit of something where I, feel like I was smart because I don't generally have a lot of that going on. I disagree from listening to the PODCAST people you've had on, you have to be at that caliber able to to carry on a conversation like you do with them so. While yourself I fake it well. That's my entire musical career has been based on faking it well. So I have because I don't I don't know how to play any instrument, but I play every instrument even though I. It's Story. Behind you don't play that very well, I play it. I mean I do it professionally, but I don't know how to play it. If that makes any sense I really don't know what I'm doing. I'm faking my way through it every single time and people always come up in in a very nice complimentary and say how well I performed and all that kind of stuff and I'm just like man I, just I just faked it for four hours. I had no idea what I was doing. I had no clue and I still have no clue. It's I'm good at taking things, which is why why you think I've? Gotten through some of these podcast interviews very well I'm very good at. Acting. As if and I I was taught that very young if you WANNA quality, you don't have at the ZIP and it will be given to you at least in the short term. That's what I've been doing my whole life faking my way through it. It starts with journalism because you go in and you take those journalism classes and it's not like math like math, it has to be five. That's the answer journalism. You can be as your way and still still ever hang on on other right. So when I graduated with a journalism degree, my goal was to be the great novelists and nothing ever happened with it. Now I, struggled to get jobs in local newspapers and stuff like that and and try to find an outlet that would pay in writing and quickly found out that wasn't gonNa work out for me because it was a really competitive field how long did it take you from the time? He graduated with the journalism degree to complete your very first book. Shoot it took a long time. I've finished the first one in two, thousand seventeen and ten years after I graduated from college. But while me when I graduated from college it was in a seven in eight everything went to hell. So you know I I was able to get a job as a construction assistant in their office and I just never had the time I was working during the day in the evening I was insisting make coach. So I truly didn't like my weekends were dominated by going to fight in tournaments than I never fought myself but I did do the Jitsu tournaments like Hiaasen and things like that but. I didn't have the time. It wasn't until after. I. Left life and I got remarried and. That I actually have the time to right. Right yeah. I've had one lady on who took thirty years to write her first book. She was on on the show we were promoting her first book and everybody in the Chapman was asking her when the next books coming out. And so it took thirty years to write the first one. They expect the second one to just come from like that it it just doesn't happen like that but you have a new book coming out tomorrow and when I learned about this, how several months ago I immediately said you gotta come back on the program to promote it I. Didn't think we'd be on the day before it actually came out are so people and I wanNA talk about it and get. People excited about it as they can pre-order it now, but it won't be delivered until tomorrow if you're a or actually that's only for the digital addition. If you WANNA hardback probably going to be a week October going to be a week or or saw more the buck from what I can tell and I can tell really is a synopsis is a feel-good Book about a witch who is an influence it now that's an interesting concept right there and I'm taking. guessing assuming that influence it does not mean what I think it means because Oh. Yeah. My my concept of what an influence is a girl and a WHO's got A. Instagram page where she's posing sexy pictures of herself and pushing and pushing products that happened to be in the picture somehow and getting paid for it. That's what that's what influencers areas in my what does it mean in context of this book? Definitely not that I. Know Karma does not sitting around on instagram doing poses like heart hands. Sorry for all the heart hands out there. No it influence there is someone who gently guide someone else to the path that they were meant to take an what Carmen does. In this book, She's recently divorced. She decides to move back home to Newburgh, North Carolina which is a real place and. Fate decides that she's going to become an influencers. So she goes and she has the help of her friends at one of whose amuse and money the snowman, who is a crotchety old of a snowman who loves real housewives series especially Atlanta and a burglar lobbyist Pencil who enjoys Tupperware and entering exiting room in our clean black smoke and it's just It's really quirky book and it was superfund. Right? Well, that sounds very interesting and if you've. Listened to this program at all you know that kind of helping people find their past is is a very common subject that comes up and or find what they're really supposed to do. So that's really interesting in terms of you know what we talk about here. He often is a lot of people really unhappy because and they don't know why they're unhappy but the real reason I believe the root of it all is that the not. To be living the life, they were intended to live there not pursuing the reason they were born and it sounds like a little bit of that got into your book somehow that that whole idea of finding your path so is she doing it by psychic or more like a psychologist? By being their friend like you know you, you have a positive influence on people around you and they checked you and I mean the whole idea came from really a a family member of mine who doesn't know he's inspiration for the story because like I might be a little sensitive to honestly. But you know you see those family members or even friends who? They have such a good heart but unfortunately, people know that of how People take advantage of them and I would see this person get taken advantage of at work. By. The girls he dated and I would he just wouldn't make decisions that would better himself. I'm not saying he should be selfish fighting means bet it just was kind of hard to see him not make his future better and more secure because of these outside influences. So I wondered what it would be like if he had someone who is there within constantly who was a constant positive guiding him the direction cushing him in the way that he needed to be pushed and that's that's where he came from. So by feel good when people are done reading this book they're going to be They're gonNa be I find some happiness that will about the story and and it will. They'll carry that with them after they're done. Reading is that Feel good. I mean, just it's it's Super Quirky Book like I'm pretty ridiculously quirky myself. So I injected a lot of that in there like. Just. Some of the things in there. That, I have like there's a scene where she's got to go in the past and she's talking about why can't one of the ghost to it and I'm referring to the ghost of Christmas past the goes to but you know they're all like she talks about we all know futures hiding his face he's got adult acne. He just needs to go dermatologists. You know just kind of silly stuff like that like that's just hopefully it makes people laugh. Yeah. Well, it sounds a little. A little different off the beaten path type of stuff that you know we're not necessarily used to that time travel is another thing that. I've always been fascinated by the all the idea of magic. Are you do you? Are you a believer in in in magical things? Now. I don't think magic Israel really. So so what would? What would motivate you to write these books that are almost always have this kind of some. Some element of magic. Or magical influence or a magic either with. The Standard Spelling I may I may I say or with a K. on. what what motivates you to get right right about it if you're not a believer in it. I. Think it's very interesting. I've always been interested in the paranormal and things like that. Like you know when I was growing up the kind of books, I've got to be such a fan of. You know especially her. Her Mayfair series. You know she writes Mayfair in the course of vampire chronicles they were okay to a famine Rasheed Merce but I've always done this stuff interesting and I feel like. Writing about it, I can do whatever I want with it, and you don't have to be a believer in something to write about it and have fun with it. Especially, white magic because there's no rules to how you write it. You know you see shows and other books with his roles. There's consequences they you know some people catch fell some people you know they have a rune magic where to draw the actual spell you know in for me I didn't want to be constricted by rules. So I just you know there, which is it's like a sniper Stevens. I know a lot of people who dabble in this country and I agree you don't have to be a believer in it to write about it. But everybody I know who I'm talking about podcast and radio people who've done this kind of stuff done shows. Geared towards people who either right about paranormal stuff have a story to tell they get into it as it Kinda skeptic and the more they're into it the more they become believers and the more they kind of because you have to do some research and writing and a book can't just kind of used to rewire completely on your imagination. At some point, you have to do some research about it and the people I've talked to people I've had experience with start out as hardcore skeptics and at some point. killed a little bit towards the believer that hasn't happened to you at all. In any aspect of this, we're not in regards to magic but you know if you WanNa talk about goes I absolutely believe in ghosts you do. I've had a couple of. Ghost hunters on paranormal investigators got one on the night before Halloween she's been with me a couple times Christie Sumner who she did it in investigation to Lizzie borden house which I I. Find 'cause I've been kind of interested net. Case my whole life. So you believe in ghosts have you had any experiences that you you would share with us or not? Well. Your I mean. I miss. When I was growing up I remember the hassle we lived in I was by myself in my bedroom and I had I never use my desk at sat on my floor. Have all my stuff just kinda stone out everywhere and I heard the door open from downstairs and I said, hello, a my mom and my stepdad either one said anything I heard someone walk up the stairs, normally hit the top of the stairs. And there was nobody there. You know. Obviously, I was like sixteen years old that really freaked me out at a time when I left the house. But I would I would be downstairs are our. Computer area was downstairs on the very first level. It was Kinda like the basement and I would hear people walking around at sears and I knew it'd be alone. So you know things like that. I. D I absolutely believe in ghosts for that reason. Wow I've had some experiences like that too and I'm I don't know if I believe in ghosts but I definitely have think experiences like that that I couldn't explain that made the hair on the back of my neck stand up and made me feel like that was Kinda creepy and we had we used to say there was a goes to lived in a house I I used to live in back from. Thirty years old. So and we gave her name because of the Old Lady who died that has we were calling a Isabel because there was a lady who who lived in the House with name was bell who died in house but that definitely seemed to be. Somebody moving around in the house doing opening doors and stuff, and that can be very calm. Doors can open by you know. Blow job for a lot of reasons. But there were a lot of that kind of stuff where it just may say where there's no reason for that to move like that and and kind of creep me out. But I don't know if I ever became a believer but I I've always had my mind open to it. But the I being scared by it. Why do you think what do you think we're afraid of it. because. You can't control it. You know we're usually things we can't control right but especially, something that you can't see you can't touch it and it can have an effect on actual objects in your house I mean but you can't have an effect on that I can totally see over scariest. Poltergeist. All different thing that would scammy I if if things were actually. Door moving doesn't necessarily Gammy of an optical flying across the room like broker on on a wall or something like that. I would get out the you know the typical story poltergeist type of activity. I've never had any a lot but. It just occurs to me that a lot of people who who have ghost stories and believe in kind of that kind of stuff. It's almost always related to a relative somebody who lived in that house who was a friendly person to begin with, and that somebody they had some affection for or had some fond memories of and then when it becomes a ghosting they still. Still. Tend to be afraid of it and it's like, why would you be afraid of your grandfather when you had such a good relationship with them and was kind of one instance it came up so it always fascinates me I still I would be afraid I. I'm not saying I wouldn't if I thought there was a ghost in this house I thought it was really spirit and I even. If I thought, I knew it personally when when he or she lived a I would still be afraid for some reason and I can't explain why and I'm always fascinated by that. Oh, thinking about what makes us afraid of spirits that doesn't cross your mind about why? Why would even like with the stuff you write about with witches why is that scary to us? Why? Why isn't necessarily scary? Well I mean I I know my my grandfather, my dad's side I didn't really know him very well he was really really sick and dying rose eight. But all I remember as he had his own room and my grandmother's house and he just was in bed all the time he he concedes anymore and when he died I remember I went up there and I was with my dad and my step mom. He was he'd been gone for a while that playing in my grandmother passed. That's why we were actually up there and. They want me to stay in GRANDPA's old room and I just couldn't do it because the whole room just freaked me out is still felt like he was they're just not talking, but on the flip side of that. When my great grandmother passed away in I went to stay with my grandmother after that I wanted to hurl room and it just felt like. It just was worse and it was loving and I wasn't scared at all to sleep in that room but it's just because my great grandmother was good to me in was Nice Lady. So to me. You know it's odd a piece of five people died in this house and all in the same room. And I feel like it's It's almost like this house is like a hospice energy to it where this is where people who really old come to prepare to die and die peacefully. So in that way, I kind of regret regard that transition as as as something something positive something nice to about this house in that people feel like they can come here and diabetes. died in. it's it's it's the one between my my my me and my wife's room and my stepdaughter's room. There's one right in between it's just a little extra bedroom right now, my my grandson is occupying that room God. God God willing. He will live at least another hundred and forty years I'm going to start giving him this stuff. I I would say at least eighty or ninety years I'm hoping for getting ideas about this stuff that I'm taking Jeremy Opinions on this. Case like as the taste, it's awful. It's olive carbon molecule. It's not dissolved in olive oil. So you figure you take something that really has like a really medicine they taste to it dissolve that in up in impure olive oil and take a shot of that. It's just and you know people say well, part of like dressing and all that kind of stuff yet but not playing if you did it as a shot like a whiskey shot. It Really is you know I I'm a big fan of Albouy in in foods and stuff, but it's gotta be it has to have something they can't just do it playing and when you add like carbon direct carbon molecule in there, it's it's just awful but to claim that it's going to prolong my life by ninety percent. So. I'm coming up middle aged again. I like how you take it eight o'clock at night before bedtime later on. Well we'll see we'll see how it goes, but I definitely have felt more energy for from it and that part of it seems to be true I. Actually had a doctor on last Friday and after I introduced him he he pulled out he said he's on it too and he showed me his his as holy cow. He said he's been on at nine months and he's outperforming younger. He's sixty seven years old and outperforming twenty year olds at his Jim according to him. So What else? You do like a PT beforehand and they all do want to six weeks. You have that guy back on yeah. He's going to be on October twenty ninth. On the daytime edition and we're going to review my results and see see exactly how I am. I know I I, I definitely. Ah, but I'm going to have a sleep specialist on tomorrow night but I've always had a problem with sleeping and this stuff definitely helps me sleep. Calmer than normal but up, still matter a restlessly particularly two hours to get to sleep we generally. Only, people who can just lay down and go to sleep. It's just like My mind is just racing with ideas and stuff I have to shut it off So but this stuff definitely helps me asleep more restful than a half. I obviously specials on my night. We'll talk about what we what we can pray the due to 'cause I. Believe Sleep is a really important part of good health You think you seem young and healthy how how things were in Tennessee right now. Well actually I don't live in Tennessee, I live in now. After Lana Oh, South Carolina. Okay But things, are I mean you mascot everywhere and you stay away from everybody and everything's canceled? So it's just you know. I. I would have thought you guys were opening up more. We are kind of in up here New York. We've been. Inching towards opening up more and more and more and Pretty. Close to open up. I played a Gig with the band Sunday night and people were dancing no mascot although we did have to have a plastic sheet on the microphone when we sangster plastic sheet like that, basically have to kind of be like an cone. But it was. Behind all that glass. Yeah. All that and that that that was the only weird part of it but the people in the crowd were interacting like almost like normal they were dancing and they weren't dancing with masks on will shoot the first time we've seen that since we started opening up but things aren't aren't opening up by you. Well. I we have a gym in our garage like a fool on pretty. Awesome. But a like restaurants are fifty percent capacity I don't know how. Do we get cooler weather? I mean South Carolina number actually it's cold here but you know there are people who are weenies like Oh my God sixty degrees to call. That's I don't know how they're gonNA. Fair but you know we've he are out doing a little bit more shopping but. I mean I hope it all gets completely open at some point I know my friend, Mandy. Who is teacher? She's she's she was Tennessee. She's happy because they starting kids come back to school. You have the option new virtual want to, but she'll tell you for San virtual learning is not working, but she's a special needs teacher so. She needs to be hands on with these kids. So she pretty. Well that's that's the thing we've been talking about a lot lately to have. How virtual learning is really not the best solution for kids for a lot of reasons. But most of all, we have what is perceived to be or claim to be an epidemic of attention deficit disorder, and my feeling on that is kids just don't get enough physical stimulation and so this stuff this virtual learning stuff makes that even more pronounced. So we're gonNA, just GonNa have more kids who were just. Diagnosed wrongly as attention deficit when Noah really need is a a an outlet to burn off some of that energy in a lot of way in a lot of instances. So I think that's A. Kind of a dangerous path to be on for a long period of time, and I'm not looking forward to seeing the long-term effects of what? homeschooling is we you know we've talked about the benefits of homeschooling for hundreds of years until we had to do it became a bad thing but people were we should all be home school for a long time people were. Yeah. Schooling sounds like a good idea until you're forced to do it, and then all of a sudden has not such a great idea but that's not really the same. Is it as virtual learning? You know was a teacher on the other side of a ipad or something. We also have to query my friend. You know you also have parents who aren't as hands on as they should be you know they just you know you can't leave your six year old of a computer and expect them to pay attention they're six they're going to be looking around counting their toenails. On that but I just GONNA. You need them to be hands on something that she seems been a big problem. I'm just happy for her at least that their kids are back but I wish they would open up all over because I know I, mean, as you've got a lot of single parents out there who are going back to work and people say, Oh, school shouldn't be a babysitter. We'll. It's not a babysitter. You put yourself in a single parent shoes trying to go to work and you're trying to get leave your eight year old at home. Do it. So I'm a perfect example of what happens when you when you do that in both my parents who Worked when I was a kid and I was a latchkey kid I'd come home from school and come on come home to an empty house, a lot of times, and of course, my ex. People listen to the program though my my upbringing was completely dysfunctional but the fact that I basically was on my own pretty much from the time. I. Was eight years old when I got home from school. It was it was my own rules and it was of course different time then but I'm I'm an example of what could go wrong when you when you. When you not really an attentive fan were a year you depend on the school system to raise your kids. Burn down the house. Out in the House I think your your better. I didn't burn down my ass, but I bring down a historical site Yeah. So basically, I was in college and we got an idea of We got idea to hop a freight train Hobo style because there was one that ran behind my house and so we got on the train. We were going up into the mountains and then the guy started panicking because we we're going would start to go fast and we didn't know where the chain was. Okay where where are we headed and it was winter time and so we jumped off and I remember we the Chamber probably going about thirty or forty miles an hour we all jumped off on the sell side and one when one of the guys we were with broke his arm and we found and I was the oldest and everybody kind of looked up to me. So it was kind of my take charge moment, and so I found this this old barn. That that was empty and I we went in there and we built a fire and it was Kinda near the road to take turns going out hitchhiking on the road and we all standing around and fire trying to keep woman got poor guy had broken on finally pickup truck stopped, and we all ran out jumped in the back of the truck and took off to go to Roswell, which was the nearest hospital about eighty miles away in the back of a pickup truck with four guy was bouncing around with a broken arm and freezing coal and nobody ever put out the fire and so. The next day we had a friend of is a mother who lived in Roswell drivers back to Portales New Mexico where we were we started out and as we pass on the road, we saw always phya Chuck's putting out this and there was a divine. Down and it was a big scientists at a historical site. Billy. The kid wants stayed here. Is like wow. That's not comfortable. I also, I also burnt down a bar once, but that's a whole other story and that was a purely accidental of course but So yeah, I just a full of train wreck stories like that. Yeah. My life has been really full of. Everything that could go wrong. It's amazing that I'm alive. It really is. It's it's beyond comprehension and I thank God every day that somehow survived and so when I used to worry about getting old. When I was twenty, I was panicking my God object. Noel. Thirty I was Oh my God I'm over the hill number trust anybody over over help forty. It was the end of the world, fifty. Oh my God now after the colonoscopy every six months and then sixty I finally decided you know what? This is something re proud of I made it I ain't nobody nobody would bet that I would live to I thought fifty four was my number I was positive fifty four is my number that was going to die at. So sixty felt like a victory and now on beyond that and according to Chris Perez I'm GonNa live to one hundred and thirty two so. Right. So let's get back to you and your book though annual books I should say do you. Keep track of or does he publish keep track of who your? WHO's buying your books who's reading your books you demographic is. An my publisher does they send me report a record or get my royalties and it kind of breakdown of where it is. So I was Kinda surprised to see I knew obviously US I was surprised to see some people UK some people in Canada people? Australia's I was like well. Okay. You if it's more men or women. Now I don't it APP. Been No, I would too. I, mean the the whole magic stuff. But I. Think to go into be expecting some kind of romance in there. I mean I just. Do it. My publisher. TALKED ABOUT THIS BOOK One of them had said, it's so different from pertinence and it really is and. One of the things we like is that you do have different genres, welk guys it's never gonNA BE ROM COM I can't do romance yet. They've got their own romance authors who were way better than I would ever be at at any way. I do that I enjoy an electric short stories, short stories up on my website for free that are. Just some of them are Kinda creepy some are there's one particular that my mother really hates because just gross. It's Call instinct it's about a guy who He basically wins Martinez and he he chooses the perfect bracket and then he realizes he has perfect gut instinct. Where every? Every prediction that makes comes through anyway something really bad happens to him at the end of it. If you want to read it, you can go to my website and see it but a yeah my my mother hates that particular story but I love it already I work to me because I come from a background of compulsive gamblers and stuff. So at that. Strikes me as something that would that would be more interested mad men would love that but it doesn't surprise me that mother is not a big fan of it but I would I would think that that that's a Guy Book Guy Who who can't get a bet wrong. That's that's something I'm I'm I want that debt should be a book not just the story. Long central ideas and I really I didn't WanNA. I didn't WanNa have to flush that one out. You know I've already got a couple of sequels on working right now I'm working on a sequel to prudence I'm working on a sequel to which leaves already is you know just depending on is depends on what I'm working on that day but. You know I just Kinda don't have time to do it all. So short story, I can finish this work story in three hours. Did You Choose Tober because of The spooky nature of October. Halloween, and all that stuff I. Don't choose the day speech depressed as they know their stuff they know the market wins the best time releasable up. You know what? Time of year is the best stations? The cover everything I mean it's It's no secret though like the main contact I have at UC PRESS The last time we had a conversation, it was whenever the cover came out for whichli influence and they were showing it to me and he said it's nothing like what you sent us as concept art for it and I said Oh gee, you guys don't like what I picked out. And I met a good plan because I have no taste to covers at all I wanted to leave the production and obviously they know what they're doing and actually focus group that sits down and you know like like this do you like about it? So well, I think the covers matted a lot more when people were shopping in Barnes and noble going to bind the noble and all that kind of stuff digitally doesn't matter if you're on a website, you're not picking up because. A cover in a in a book store will make you pick up the book. You'll see it and it'll be attractive but on a a website, you kinda looking like if you're on Amazon or Barnes and noble dot com, you're looking for subject matter and it's not you're not just picking stuff up because the the cover of the book just kind of attracts you to it. Am I wrong in that? I like to see what the title is. Honestly the titles wickets me. Is How good is title, and then if I were title, then I'll go through Narita but. Whenever I go shopping for books I look for authors I already know I like in all expand from there like I'll look them up and it will say you know how Barnes and noble suggest you might like this to the Knox Fan and kind of go down that hole and pick up my next book. I WANNA. See if I can bring in just to cover of the book yet show people on it Where did it go? Just pulled him down here this. And do that I and now go. This is all I. Wish I had a an engineer here this we. Go Up. There it is. That's what the the look like looks like. So are you Are you not happy with the with the cover of you? Happy with it, it's just the the concept that I had for. It was totally different but that's what they went in I really do like the cover. I don't have good tasting covers like whenever prudence came out. It was definitely not the beach will ask you were you kind of looking for? So last year they sent me four different concepts of what could what it could be in on like. I kind of like what I said, and then I got a call and said well. We've done the research. So we know we're talking about and they obviously do because a Lotta people came to me and said I really love that cover and I said thanks but I can take credit for it. You know this was the a she presses design. So it's the same with you know they they know what they're doing I trust completely. A relatively short book. I believe a two hundred written eighty pages or something like that is that is that correct? Yeah something like got. It's just it's just a fun quirky read that you know the train wreck Dennis Twenty twenty. You can just take afternoon off and sit down and escape it for a few hours. Well, yeah. I would think they really should kind of and I'm not telling you how to market the book or your publishers had mortgageable or you publish your market the book, but they really should push this idea of feel good right now because if there's one thing everybody in the world needs right now is the reason to feel good. Even if it's for a short escape I mean and if you know I, don't have television in my house, I it this but I don't have television in my house for a good reason because acting like poison. So re reading a book that's GonNa make you feel good. It's just a natural escape for people in these kind of times where people just kind of losing their minds with so much stuff going on and it doesn't help that besides everything else that is an election going on with with all the ugliness that that surrounds that stuff. So yeah I would I would. Definitely. Be All over the Field Book Twenty Twenty. As Marketing Person I would be pushing that as the big selling point on on it without that and wanted to talk to first of all. I. I, got. Be, pressed that come up there is that where people should go 'cause I didn't know what was the proper place to send them on. They can go to my website, Stephanie Grapes Dot Com, and if you click on the links my books, it will take you to the agency's website where it has the breakdown of where you can buy books great. I will put that in description in Texas one down right now, I will put that in the description so we kickable so people can actually go there and find out and Yeah E. working on more books you say who? Has Gone. Well I take some time off of the summer. My husband deployed again, this year which sucks but at home for a few weeks to take your my grandmother. So Scott, back on. Saturday before last and I've Kinda gotten back into the groove knife giving the richly fluent sequel a little bit more love because it's easier for me to sit down and write just be ridiculous. That is me to sit down and do the cruden sequel because prudence associated and I'm just really not that mindset right now to to put back effort into what she requires. So you know the weekly sequel definitely is getting more love 'cause I can wear chicken in it for crying out loud I can just see. silly. Do you believe in coincidences at all? Absolutely I'm not sure. I believe in coincidence I know what appears as coincidence happens, but somehow I feel and you can totally disagree with me on this trip by all means. But I feel like there is some kind of meant to be universal kind of thread that runs through these things when when things that appear as coincidence happened because they happen to me an awful lot and so as I mentioned, we found that this book was coming out in October a couple of months ago probably three months ago we this day. And I had no idea who my daytime guests would be today at that point and so it got booked and I didn't even consider a one one daytime edition got booked today no consideration for it whatsoever, and then it turned out to be Dr Danny Brazil who is promoting literacy and is encouraging reading through all these kinds of courses in. Programmes he has to. Increase Literacy as well. That's very funny because the guests I'm having on tonight it was my first guess where I I decided to take on this promote literacy campaign and put it on the show my very first author interview and it's just a very strange coincidence. But that kind of stuff happens to me all the time was I almost every single show I do or it has some kind of. Into, we've with previous shows that have that, and so it it all seem to tie together in some ways. I feel like the universe is is trying to teach me something So but you're I believe in coincidence you not I believe marine kind of anything. Bigger than us, the controls and anything in in that happens in our lives. I believe in something bigger but I mean you can believe in both I can believe in coincidence but it's Kinda sounds like your show is relaxed him. An author has a series and there's little Easter eggs like Bentley little. Especially, if you start reading his books wants to get into some of the newer staff like there's one put call the association where the main character in that book, He is an author, and in another book, Somebody says that they're reading a Berry can presenting Saberi something book and he just rides it together that way kind of what it sounds like is going on with your the little Easter eggs near that. You don't even realize where there it just seems like it happened way too often for me to believe that Tall Shia coincidence. sometimes I come on. It's that kind of thing like you got you gotta be kidding me like. The way things tied together sometime and and so This was about somebody who actually help people get on their. Life purpose in you don't you used that word you kind of used the word up the path. They're supposed to be honest something but that's been the theme of the show for probably the last. Three months I also a constantly recurring is this idea of people finding their purpose in their life and generally when I first started to show you fit in and around the time that you are on the show I was talking heavily about the idea that the show was dedicated to bad idea of. Being. Happy. Happiness and Fulfillment in life comes from being on the past of doing things that you were meant to do living the life you will mental and I think that most people who are unhappy in life are in a job that wasn't that's not meant for them to doing it and every day to get up and go to it and a curse, and they feel like they should be doing something else but they never have the courage or Or just you know the idea that I can do this and then go pursue the life that I was meant to have. So the fact that your book is kind of. About somebody who helps people find that is also just part of that whole coincidental thread than I said come on man this stuff that it it happens way too often in the messages keep coming back in one way or another in but very similar message that is it's too often to just be happenstance that idea doesn't occur to you ever. Right. Now now now is there can be some situations where it kind of seems like it may be a little bit worker straighted. But Sometimes a coincidence can be kind of fun you know. You either side of the world to take vacation and damned if you don't run into someone that you are from the same same town, you know you like, Oh, I left that place to not see you again I mean not that person singular but you know. It's just. Of Fun. well, I read in your bio today, and by the way, my wife is a crazy cat lady So I read the part about how you know your cat and some day. You may become a crazy cat lady that your bio in case you forgot you wrote that. And I've been really interested in Brazilian Jiu. Jitsu. Lately, I've had one guest on who is. which is also in your bio and I've had one guest on WHO's a purple belt, which I never even knew existed in in Brazilian to and next week I'm having somebody on a black belt, a master of. Brazilian Jujitsu. So I'm a just another coincidence just happening i. just read that today. It's like, wow, that's more coincidence on top of coincidence on Thapa coincidences it just feels like some and that's why I get overwhelmed with it. I got to look for his name to so many people coming on I'm not even sure which one it is Who is it Jesse Moth? More Billy. I don't know. Might. Be Rent Magnusson. I don't know I have so many people on and I don't know. I don't really kind of prepare until like the day of the show I kind of look at all who was guy because they booked their own dates on most part just handout mccown and trump's pick a date and time and I get so many requests on book like A. Book an advanced several months so and two shows a day I can't possibly know who everybody is until I do the research on them and do some a little bit of homework on them but most of the time just wing it. Yeah Yeah. I'm with you. I mean, yeah I do read the books when when I have the books I and I wanted a preordered your book I will get it's going to be delivered to my kindle tomorrow morning supposedly but I do read the books when they come on and that's a chore and itself. That's a lot of homework to read all the books for all the authors that come on so Yeah. Thank you Yeah. Well, on that note I wonder if. Any words of support for I had author on it I'm not gonNA mention his name to pass them but He's I, follow him on on on social media and. He's written seven books and really has a tough time selling not just selling them, but he's been trying to give away any. He wrote last week really sad thing he said. I don't know if I should give up because I can't even give my books away You have any kind of inspirational or ideas kind of. A It's bracing to keep on, keep on, keeping on, keep on doing what you're doing. Let's riders they're like. it's creepy creepy thriller stuff. It's like psychological thriller stuff which I think is a pretty popular John People like that kind of. Allison that is using you know you. You know on Twitter I. See you know there's a lot of followers that people will have on twitter but you know like for me, for example, is usually writers following other writers and we don't always reach other stuff then. The comedians saving. You know you're not and it's not because we're not being sports each other, but we're so focused on writing our next thing. We just don't have the time to read everybody's on their Amazon same thing facebook to grow a facebook community I. Mean I- cleric Carreira super involved in his community and he does not give a flying flip. You know he can be really controversial. He's very much either love me or you hate me I don't care I write awesome books but that's not really. But you kind of have to grow that. It's really hard to grow your community but you know you just have to plug it in and and keep going and you need to try and get your book out the right. Alex like DC press is really good about getting my book out like prudence it's going to be screened magazine. October fifteenth. So yeah, I, mean they're gonNa they have that on there they've got which Lee advertise on publishers weekly. It just depends on where you you just have to find the right place treasure book like you win advertise which Lee influences screen magazine not be silly same as like you wouldn't advertise Princeton Mike tee time you know Felt. It just depends on where he just needs to find his right spot to to put it out there because there are people who love it and who I'm sure of it. He just needs to you know keep plugging away and I would add to that. A couple of things is that it's not necessarily a condemnation of your ability as a writer because of people aren't buying it people on. They can't possibly think you're bad writer because they happen right so that that has no bearing on your a your worth as an a writer or North Alabi want to put it but other than marketing is everything and I think when people. don't see or because the marketing is great and they don't see the sales, they become a little bit desperate foods and they tried to give it away trying to give away your art no matter whether it's a book or a music or comedy or video whatever it is I think that's a detriment of to to your work and it devalues a little bit because you give it away and people don't re. Don't use it. They don't read it. They don't listen to it they whatever it is they won't. They won't value it because they didn't spend their hard earned money for it with you. If I have to pay your book, I'm going to read it if if you just give it to me I'm GonNa put it on the shelf, and if I get around to it, which I never will I'm Gonna I, may read it. The, agree with that I agree with it I absolutely. Do I see a lot of people they WANNA. Do giveaways and I can understand kind of giving away things like a signed copy once in a while or a keychain or a bookmark. That's fine. But if you do that all the time I mean, I, agree with you, it Kinda takes away what makes us special right what my my friend Sam did was I thought was very good in marketing. He said, you know you buy it at Amazon basically it's it's. This price your bite off my website and you'll get a signed copy and it's slightly cheaper and the reason he can do that is number one Amazon's not taking their cut. So he he actually makes more won't by selling the signed copies of his website than the ones that sell off Amazon I thought was just a great people like that. The authors signs it in an mkx put a little note into a personal note to it becomes more special for that. So I think that's great marketing part of it. I I, like that approach a lot I. Agree. Lincoln child and Douglas Preston they're writing duo and they are wonderful. Some favorite writers they do that pretty much every time they have a new book. Now, they have pictures on the social media religious have stacks and stacks of these books they're signing and. I every new book I always I always buy because it signs and I one that I find his specialists there was one they. I. Think it was two grades that came out where they had a thing where you could request a certain phrase to be put an air and their main character Alex spinner guest. He says it's very bad habit one I find hard to break so I asked. Them to put that in there and they did and it was it just makes it so much for special oh. Yeah. Definitely. That's very cool. Thank you for that So I know we're running over an hour and I want to be respectful of your time I just wanted to talk briefly about because my initial reason for getting you on a move back when I didn't reason was to. Promote literacy and reading and stuff, and one of my authors not my my one of my sponsors, not my sponsored tonight. But one of my frequent sponsors audio books now and I talk about this a lot about the difference between reading a book and listening to a book. It is huge in the experiences different in a big way. But first of all do are there any plans on your book coming out as an audio book? Cruises audio came out I think sometime last month which leases coming out I. WanNa say by December I'm not hundred percent. Sure. I think a woman still in production that's reading it but yeah. I reading it yourself. No. This You. Can't. Gano. Team to me. I would be nervous that the inflections and not going to be right. You're not gonna read it like I wrote it because you know as as an author I'm sure you had. Absolute voices to to every every line that you wrote that the people said in the book and you want that dialogue to come across as you wrote it and I would I would have trust issues given it to somebody else you don't have that. Now, I mean these people are voice actors for a reason. I mean one advice actors that they have doing reading the books for beauty press is she played frames Amber Benson she played Tara on Vampire slayer. So they have these high caliber people who were reading these books for then and I trust them entirely late and like I said, I wouldn't want to stay here. Let me read about now but. How do you like I really enjoy audiobooks books I personally prefer to sit down and read a book because that's why relaxed time. But like I've got members of my family especially, my mother who she does not sit down for anything she's constantly moving. So when she went when I go to visit her her headphones are always in she's got her fell in her pocket and she's always listening to a book always. How old is she my age sixty or plus? A my mom is sixty five. Yeah. When you see the small I love you. You don't look at thirty five I get it I would think my boomer, my age people my age are not really hip to technology and and I know they don't. PODCAST listeners I kiss. My audiotape. Cash? To her hot cast for show. That's pretty cool. Most people don't I. You know most people my age don't even really know what a podcast is and I talked to because I talked to all time about it in a podcast. What's that? You're doing a what how does it work and and so but the idea of audiobooks I think it's A. Great convenience. I liked them. Of course It's great to be able to just like put it on in as you drive or whatever, or do you choice and listened to the book but there's nothing quite the experience of finding some quiet time for yourself and getting into your own head in reading the book and having your own experience with the book and. In that way everybody everybody's experiences slightly different when you when it's reading but when it's an audio book and it's being dictated to you, everybody says experiences the same kind of like a movie. Yeah So that's an interesting thing I wanted to touch base on is, is this idea? So you do have an audio book coming up maybe December January. I. Hope. So I I have to ask them specifically where it comes out but it same. somebody I know recently put out the audiobook before. Before the written book or an audible with was the people, put it out there. That was part of the contact contracts will deal with I. Guess it was Amazon, they published with Amazon right? So it's ass self publishing thing. So audible insisted on having an exclusive rights for six months to put the audio book out I. Think they're doing very well. Was it. It just seems to me a very strange way to do. Will book ever because you know I I would with the other way around I prefer to read it first and it listen to it later on, but it's a strange thing. A contract to buy some books I I'm not sure I. Know My mom went to buy pertinence audio recently and she she bought on apple books because there wasn't any stipulations she had to buy so many more. Oh Yeah. No with audible you have to yeah. You have to get in like a membership deal and by two or three I. Think we'll more something like that. Yeah I'm tied into one of those. Eh. But it helps you know especially with the amount of books I have to consume. Taking this. Layers, you're adding to your brain as you read all these books. Do I peer any smarter than the first time? You saw a first time we talk now I'm not. I'm I'm still a dumb guy I haven't got. You Down why did and I? I don't think I've gotten any smarter. I've definitely absorb more information, but that doesn't necessarily make any smarter. Try To last year I actually tried to play the guitar. My husband plays it very well, we've got a time will not stares. He's got a pension for electric cars and he's been playing for like thirty years I think and so I was trying at Last year as well in Riga home last year, I was trying to play forum you know He. Got Less them he loves made didn't tell me got. So. I still play a little bit that whenever we went on lockdown this year I with languages. So I picked up starting to learn a new language that's been my thing I. still want someone I'll go to my guitar which I left East I had a buy a lefty guitar. Pick it up. Just to try yeah, the whole world is against you. Yes yes they are there. Is your husband or professional. Now. Now. He's not he's played a couple of showers to fill in for people, but that's basically it. Now, he he just he really enjoys to play. He does not want me around when he does it he doesn't like the audiences his it's his time to just relax in hanging out of his head. Now he'll have a hard date were her come in and hill is kind of domestic. I'm downstairs cooking dinner and he's upstairs and I can hear the guitar playing and you know that's one of the things that sex nurseries gone like now is I don't get hear him play because he is really good right I don't even WanNa ask I'm sorry. My wife is Gel might Itar. I'm not jealous I I just I. Feel like as he would love to have fifty nine Les Paul and they're like thousands of dollars. Obviously we're not gonNA spend thousands of dollars on a guitar. That's crazy. We don't. But I that that would be good to have one a little jealous. If you took the money inside on that not Jealous Matt. I don't do a lot of editing on his program, but I'm going to have to edit that one line at about we don't spend thousands of dollars guitar. We can't have that kind of information out there in the public. Wants to say my husband unless Paul, Fifty nine. I have a friend who actually just got a unbelievable beautiful Westfalen. Got It absolutely free and metro exactly. How bad happened but it's it's the Best Guitar I've ever played I was so jealous of it like I ready to trade seven different guitars I had for but I I understand why he wants a yeah when you get a good one, it's magic. They're not all that good. Oh Gibson's quality control has gone down a lot of show. It's hit or miss. You can get a great one or you can get one that's really not that well, and if you spend thousands of dollars on it and it's not good, you'd be really really disappointed. Guitar Center in Nashville where he site Laura living there at the time and we went in there and you know that Guitar Center is huge and it's got this this quality control, the humidity control room in there and it's that's where it was hanging up. He took it out and he played it for a while and I'm pretty sure he fell in love with it fascinating along with me and he just he was sad to walkway while I feel for them and. When you say National I'm sure you know Guitar Center in National and I'm not plugging guitar. Senate in that a sponsor anymore either but Nashville Guitar shop in Nashville of probably the best in the whole world, they're not gonNA find a place that is more gas guitar centric than National Tennessee. Is Music. City's music city for a reason, right? Yeah. Yeah. I always wanted to move there when I was younger, I never did in I guess it all worked out for the best anyway But so that's that while the book is out tomorrow a, it's let me get get the title up again it's called a witchy influence. It's by my guest Stephanie Gray. It's The feelgood book of Twenty Twenty. You really want to get this because it's going to lift your spirits I can't tell you for how long. Maybe a day maybe a week but you're definitely to feel good after you read this book and that's the most important thing you know order it now you can pre-order it at tonight actually an get it delivered. If you order kindle you can actually have it delivered tomorrow morning. If you get hardcover book it's better going to take a day or two or I don't know Amazon prime or Barnesandnoble have express delivery on it, but you can get pretty quickly so order pre-order it starting tonight Stephanie Thanks Again for coming back when you when you next book comes out come back again and we'll. We'll. We'll have some fun. I. Appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks for coming and have a great night stay. This episode is brought to you by put me in the story. Put me in the story creates personalized books for kids by taking bestselling children's picture books and well up characters and allowing you to create personalized books that make child the star of the story alongside their favorite characters. Save twenty, five percent storewide when you click the link on mine dog TV, Dot Com and use the code save? Twenty five. Where else sponsored by the lovely lovely Asia online stop for modern irresistible and affordable women's clothing. 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You can buy it and and I and her website in in the description, and I, hope you'll check it out. Hope, you tell your friends about this show come on backs with my youtube channel subscribe. They'RE GONNA MIND OCTAVIA DOT COM get my man list or you know what we're GonNa have great this on and stuff you're interested in and questioned the comments for me. PLEASE INFO AT MIND DOG TV DOT COM INFO at my dog TV Dot Com until tomorrow when my guest is Stephen Foster no not the one who wrote Oh Susanna one who's GonNa talk to us about leadership and business stuff improving your team building and leadership skills so that's one. More on business. Number for the mind. Okay. Thanks for spending this time with me and have a great night in my sometimes words can lose their meaning being. Win over US dance in it. We turn fray. Cliche. Words better left unspoken. By shallow rip lives. We've learned a long way. We ran below with feelings. Communication rule. The way feels justice. Anytime we say. You. Just a he bad. A. Mile to see it in. A. Doll the bird to that Ad. Reading own chance to speak we can vote kids listen. Talk is cheap Ben. We can't keep the hours in a day. Little slips throw past. Six pools would miss. The emptiness that exists within nine. Year you say. I love you. Joe He bad. So Tail Neil. Need to. Talk. Look into. So you know the SINC-. Won't zero you win by. Have the TAB. AMMO. Uncertain. and my mind just fades. Black. Sewer I know that you're the one who? Understands me. The promise tar then. Hearts Sin Don. Where rants And suddenly the. The than man's. Promise you. You'll never. Say. I love you. He. The story the. Bad Man's me. To promise you forever never hear me say. I love you. Justin he re bad. Ghazala view.

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64: Eureka!

Whimsically Volatile

1:25:24 hr | 1 year ago

64: Eureka!

"Hey everyone it's Craig and cut your and you know what we WANNA. Tell them about Hawaii. Five O having a sale on pilgrim had that's right and you pump nickel pumpernickel bread is so underrated. That's why I choose raw and that's why I like to go. Check out my options on Patriot dot com slash Caccia and Craig. That's where all the relevant tea is spilled. The were not to mention certain facts that can be used as receipts upon dragging a person experiencing their way going off staffing snapping snatching snatching absolutely spalding. Oh Gray her drag her monologue we uh-huh. Oh my God Ellen Barkin heard daft Panty Barbara Hershey who hurry she was she damn find all that and more on Patriot Dot Com slash coaching crickets. What do we have there. We got the bonus episodes bonus episodes. We got We got extra episodes. We got exclusive exclusive episodes. We've got firewall paid through non-standard. secret episodes movie club. We got anti movie fish and chips. We've got haggas. We've got deals Hillsdale Dylan. Oh deals and we got Howie Mandel. OCD pay per view comedy out. That's right absolutely all that and more plus listener questions. Listen go there at a Patriot dot com. That's cutting creek and enjoy yourself so listen. Why don't we get into the episode now at `grats Adobe House which we just he's so we're here with Ron Thomas Eureka and finally lovely to meet you and thank you for joining us today we. I'm super excited to be here when Bundu I'm over the moon. Commit bit jet lag but I'm just getting to know each other moonstruck really yeah. No I judge me here. Obviously you are Crag of course out. We met on Grindr. Actually it was it was a lovely hookup I would I would not do back. He called me to come to a podcast. It's been really good. Also my best friend is here from high school. Her name was was on lease. Say Hi Ana she's an artist. I'll you tell about yourself. Everyone knows we. I'm a painter and you know I help you. Rica with the dragged grabbed. Keep it the extreme and help us style is a little bit to my heart and my best friend and so since High School Oh best friends first time drunk and we're pretty wild syndrome together as I still my mom's aluminum guy uh-huh doesn't know a large car. That's made a full steel because it was the ninety s type vehicle a Chevy Lumina to be exact yeah that yeah. We did not wreck but we're wasting into school. The next day plan all without pig on ourselves. They also impressed Rica. I did the drags I had already moved already moved out here. I came out here. I I helped him prayed. She'd she'd get out here and it was from Johnson City right. Oh Yeah but no granted. She was still always there. You know there was always a messaging. She kept her army tie. Hi Anne cloth. I'd have my ups and downs and our get my God. You're doing right where calmed down. God's got you girl so she was always the lifeline for sure. We've the first person that you told when you're going on season nine. I actually did not hell on a leased before I left for filming coming but I did tell her after she was good at the secret so once I got back I was like I messaged her shortly after it because I had surgery and stuff but I must. You're sure okay so we need to talk something happened and I was like Com and choose. I okay so she called me and I was like well. I guess like all the prayers and the Jujubes and the whatever Ah yes yes yeah. She's very that what is it like trying to keep a secret like that. When you know something's going to happen and on it's terrible you know you have to pathological liar attack. Honestly that's just the way you just lie to everyone. I also had an injury sure so I came up with. This elaborate scheme went out skiing this semi laboratory. I talk a lot settlement around the director of our show the podcast so I actually was just telling everyone that I tore my acl doing cartwheels with my nieces yard and then recently certainly I broke my ankle roller skating with my nieces. Oh my God that is exactly two years later so he fulfilled the full circle full circle on my my my pathological lying. No you really my mood mood. Board is not a mood where my vision word circle on there and so many crazy things are coming full circle now and I'm like scenario really did injure myself with my nieces. I think it's like that yeah. Full circle lie coming back to bite me in the ankles manifested that do you believe in manifesting. Do you believe in putting things out in the universe. Oh yeah got we both are like huge believers. Dan the law of attraction you now where we're both avid watchers of the secret when we get down and how now and the like an uplifting like movie instead of watching like you know some happy like Disney film decide to throw in the secret because Oprah that works so I and honestly it does work. I think Oprah knows nothing to something. Then you gotta be believing in something to John I think religion in could only get you so far and there's definitely a lot of faith that I that we both share. Obviously we have faith about. I also think that there's so much energy and we're connected by two and the body is made up of literally one hundred percent energy and that's the law of attraction is about right about attracting the energy that you're projecting out an and with where if you're talking real serious like electrons protons neutrons all that it's a all the way to like the minimalism of science that law attraction works. I fell on so I definitely believe in manifesting and attraction and you get what you're giving. You know you're giving negatively and thinking about that. That's what you get one hundred percent that makes me think of the the reaction. Some people had to you and sees nine and then the changed person. Some people thought they saw on season ten. How would you characterize your journey from season nine to season ten in terms of how you were presenting. Maybe okay okay. be more direct on how they perceived me on nine. What do you think perhaps you were coming across a little negative on season nine Alkai Kyw whereas unseasoned ten. You're very much the person trying to lift people up right now. Obviously there was the issues with vixen et Cetera but that's sort of to the side. That's more of a personal thing thing you know everyone leaving Monet in Cameron out in the group challenge for the Dragon Challenge and I grabbed them and so trump yeah of course I'm very motherly person season nine. I was a a child. You know what I mean sure and although back home I was known as the drag mother I mean like but besides my drag mother right so I have like a little bit of the Baby Syndrome but I also had a huge drag family I was really popular known in the community so you you come as these big fish as where you're from sure into a a competition where you're with all the big fishes from where they're from and then you know a couple of newcomers here and there but really they're probably one of the best at whatever they do you know whatever type of drag they do. They're the best at it wherever they're from. I'm so coming in there you all of a sudden realize like Oh. I'm not I might be the biggest girl in the room but I'm not the biggest fish you know what I mean so. I think that I was perceived. Negative more than I truly was but the people also forget the episode two was when I hurt myself yeah so I was also in an immense amount of pain to Jan.. Should I was an pain yeah so I might have been projecting and trying to joke and it wasn't funny okay and some of it came across a little more negative than I intended but it was. I think we masking the fact that I was hurting. What I was trying to pretend like I was okay. I was terrified. I was going to get sent home for sure. I was not wrong thinking thinking about like pain in your body and you mentioned about like all the energy that you have in your body. How hot is it to look after your body doing drag because you have to do so many like you. You're not trained as an athlete and so much you putting your body through like how do you how do you stay on. Just ruin your joints and you hope and pray that you can walk at thirty five. I think what helping the brave and you start wearing shorter and shorter heels as draggers. Go on and honestly for me. I think thing is just you you. You have to remember just like an athlete stretch every time you show even if it's just for like two minutes before right before you go on stage like you know squad guas stretch your arms your shoulders because you can notice a huge difference when you do and don't sometimes we get caught up in drinking about our alcohol versus their water what Winston Winson okay all right. Okay thank you. My alcohol of choice is always when I'm working. I drink vodka in water with live. Okay so that way. I'm still getting a little water just in case of course and Lime Syrup. If I'm filling man you just you try to take care of yourself the best you can and a lot of people don't and you know. I hate that they you you know they deal but also you can never tell I do splits and kicks and death droughts and the most as a four hundred pound gender-neutral non-conforming non on binary person slashed but then I roll my ankle and break at roller skating with my nieces. You know what I'm saying exactly too precious about the things you really can't yeah. I suppose when you're onstage. You're aware of what you're doing your body race. You've got in your mind like I need to be careful and then he just walking think about it and then you're like no angle's going yeah. Yeah I think so too adrenaline and the crowd and a lot of that like really affects the performance level. You're not thinking about it. It's like you know it's like with any the artist you know when you're doing what you love and you're getting that. Adrenalin in that fuel in that that drugs being fed to you that you are addicted to because that's what creative even artists are addicted to like that energy they get from people or the perceptions of that they have less or You know it's you don't really care you know you. You do whatever it takes to like she from screaming. Louder Yeah how hot is it then to convey like how good you are as before an all across that you've honed right which you doing room to real people in a real place with energy and feeding that to a TV studio. That must be so difficult. It wasn't difficult for me. I think the reason it was a difficult for me because I studied radio TV and Film East Tennessee State University. Film and TV is what I've always wanted to work in so I had like a little little bit of experience like working in the news cast for our college doing different video projects and like elements of the industry in school cool. I just didn't have like you know actual experience so it was kind of fun for me to to get to experience it for real classroom yeah. I'm I am so I guess it came to me a little easier plus. I always have my personality on. I can't help it. I don't really change much inner outer drag Eureka can me I don't know do I like Eureka just like moves her body different. Lash on all of a sudden. You're feeling along along. I mean my name's David. My Family Causes Me D. I don't really go by David so usually D- I I guess as far as by masculine persona but Yeah D. or David is a little bit more chill but still just as the actual different way. I think NCAA more Chris Farley asked you know when you Rica is more Queen Latifah okay now. That's the best way slash Melissa McCarthy. Maybe I don't know you're a diva and both but you try not to be as much of a diva and it's like you can ask twice in Avoi- and if you turn into your Rica. It's like no oh baby. I said now shot clock. It's good to have the perspective of someone else that now's house sure. And how did you arrive at the name. Eureka based on your mom's my mom's name Ali from Germany and it's K. E. I'm junior's. This is named after my father so when I decided to have a female persona I was like well my mother. I adore so much more so why not just use her name but I I needed to be able to be pronounced. American way side just decided to name myself after the Rica vacuum cleaner that we had in our house. I was like people can say you know Eureka and then it means found and you know I'm GonNa be a star means leading into the inner city so does it can be hard when you're pulling yourself basically in the universe through things to another goal to fight the negative self talk and there was a lot of focus on not in season ten with the evil twin Challe and all of that. What's the best thing you think someone can do. Or how did you handle dealing with that in a moment girl. Oh you know you just take your face and you smack until all whatever it takes. No maybe not just what I do walk in the House. I'm like you know I got oh good all drywall here despite my face into so it depends on the type of wall your pain self deprecating physical violence. No I think yeah I think the best thing it's just I there's a book that I read three times now and everyone I meet. I should be getting ringing endorsement deal because I fucked and it's called the subtle art of not giving a fat. Uh have you heard of that. I have heard of it. It's in south help. bestselling list it has been for months now and I think and there's something in there that I like to use to explain and it's about changing the narrative in your brain we have thousands and thousands of thought today and all those thoughts are critiquing ourselves usually sure or assuming other people are critiquing us but everyone else is having that exact same thought process S. so when once you learned that and then second learn the fact that you have to change the narrative like instead of saying Oh my God I was so crazy I last night because I partied too much instead of saying that be like Oh my God. I was so much fun because I had a blast change the narrative I think that's how you get rid of that Inner Salvator Tor- you know it takes time practice just like anything else you identify as non binary gender neutral sure and but for years you identified as transgender transgender woman. Ya I lived as a trans woman for four years. I went to college full time. I went to work fulltime. my nieces grew up with me basically weekly for the earliest childhood understanding me as a female so yeah I did. I grew up with all women so I always wanted to be a girl. You know I was always so jealous. I wanted to make them up and like fix their hair and style them so I had that kind of in me already like gay boys in general not everyone. I can't put words in anyone's owns mouth but we all have those thoughts. I think growing up where we wish we were a girl because it's so wrong to be who we are but it would be okay if we were a girl so the things that we like girls are allowed to like so. I think we all have those thoughts when we're younger as we're trying to understand ourselves and then when I turned turned eighteen. I actually had a fake. Id and up until then I had to start using my realized so I was going out to the bar in drag to get into the bar with my actually eighteen neurology out dragging. I met this guy who was really into me and as a female actually lived with a trans woman and it just all seemed aim to line up for me so I was like I think this is the path. I need to go sure I'm plus. I fell in love with this guy who loved my persona and I am very feminine so that's it's pretty much. How that change came along it was always a question in the back of my mind and like I wish I was born a girl yeah sure and maybe I am and then when I realized Oh there is an option. You know. It's definitely a life changer but this is not snacking. Give a shot to do so and I did it so I transitioned and started taking all the medications I can find any order an all the online a spare lactones which is testosterone blocker Ezra dial which was estrogen supplement hiding. I'd be buying my sister's birth control eaten at anything to make me more feminine you know and it wasn't healthy and it's actually very illegal so do not do that. Anyone five you know go to a doctor be seen by professor. I didn't do it the right way about yet. You have any negative consequences because of that. Oh Yeah I was bat shit crazy uh-huh chemicals in your brain that I had the softest skin. Baby baby is pain whether or not it was. It was very rocky because so one week it was the best this week in the world the next week. I was ready to kill myself. You know and it was vocal. I was very honest. Honestly my fan base grew huge because I was such a so open about the experiences yeah and as a trans individual I was constantly on facebook and instagram not so much then where I'm from facebook was the big thing okay. We didn't really do instagram or twitter at that time. It was all facebook so facebook live during my day makeup like talking about I am a strong independent transforming going to college today and you know just try to mask. Scott right mask the pain that you're inside. It's just I don't know it's definitely takes a toll you know and but I had a boyfriend so I had that emotional support writer but he was not healthy for me. He was actually very abusive physically and mentally and he was the tiniest guy. I don't know how the fuck I let him be physically abusive abusive to me. I mean I think about now and I'm like I'm so big Bob so anti-violence sure and also sometimes people just slip through the filter and you go. How the Hell did. I let that happen. I know I'm like I literally let this man like got knocked around a little bit like it hurts your pride to get to a point finally where you're like no this this is not okay and you get to a low point and that's where I got an it was with probably a little bit of chemical imbalance happening and my mind one from not legally taking the the appropriate dosages of medication out my transition side definitely promote now going to Dr and then also the physical and mental abuse of a relationship. He made me feel Kinda worthless too so then when we split up I maybe I lasted literally maybe four or five months at the mouse still living as a trans woman because I was in such a a dark place so I decided to transition because I was discovering what gender fluidity was like. I worked with a lot of organizations so I was learning through saga at my college what gender the neutrality wise and the different spectrums of it all working with the Tennessee transgender political coalition so you know I was like I'm going to give it a shy. I needed to take a step back and find myself again and I yeah so yeah I remember. I said it's okay. You got to be the best of both worlds I mean it was a hard choice to make. I had a trans ends mother basically Jacqueline Saint James but she was my drag mother but before she was my drag mother she was like a trans mother to me. She taught me how to be comfortable and confident there was a year that I would literally be paranoid about in public okay as Jones individual being in Tennessee but then soon I learned like honestly I was gorgeous. Georges one minute and I didn't realize it took you know a man to tell me Oh hello and AH honestly being sexually abused by man it took to tell me and you know that was also a dark side to that that you are fetish for men so sexualize actualized it was flattering at the same time it's very detrimental knowing that you're only fantasized by those men and not respected so and also you struggled to achieve the level body positivity that you have today right so mixed in with that. I can imagine I've had weight issues up through my life and so that will definitely affect when you you start doing in romantic relationships. I was actually like I was probably sixty or seventy pounds lighter than I was tall in the end. I was poor. I was not eating like okay yeah. No I mean I I was. I started eating after I do transition kind of I gained weight when my testosterone started building back okay so like the way hormones work is like if you I quit cold Turkey which is really dangerous it can. It's really dangerous because it takes you to a really dark place. your chemicals are often your brain. Your hormones are off. I mean it's basically a female going through menopause. You know that's the best way to describe it but it's the opposite because you're being flooded with testosterone yeah and so then you're going to menopause but you're also a roy addict if that makes it nice juggling. It's crazy crazy crazy crazy few months. When you went a little bit off piste with the it was just wild and my body changed very drastically. I got a little taller weirdly. I grew yeah. My shoulders got weirdly broader like just the testosterone flooded the end and started making changes to my body too quickly. now like sexy man today an analyst. What was it like for you as as a friend Islas already here yeah checking and making sure the mental state is okay because I knew the future was bright and the journey of being an dark space because you never know what's coming and you still got to wake up and figure something out to pay that rent to we now below and a card from lady. I talked place in that. I knew I could help us now. I sent money a card and the secret and at the end of season the next season she finally got on the show. That's amazing dull almost saying I'm not trying to organize nice that she literally was the one no bits. She said just let's do it. She was like she said just to pay them and that's what I honestly did. It's not the best audition tape we're not. I don't think we're allowed to release them. It's not about salvation tape but there was something authentic about it because I didn't care sure that sees him that I was so authentic talking to casting people later. They were like you know yeah. We loved that you dancing. It's in that you had style or whatever but they're like honestly. The authenticity in your video was what we loved like 'cause you were just over the top and like you know funny and yeah. Houston sweet and whatever and that drastically changed to nine hundred when I tore my inside to be unabridged. Everybody's both anticipate is so important to the kids watching the show. Oh you know you're saying about you knew your friends adopt place back home like not knowing how to categorize yourself how to talk about things like so. Many kids grow up in places like where would from from that. They haven't heard of like options that your brain can allow yourself to understand. They don't exist where you're from. You know and people think like oh I have to fit these boxes and they don't quite fit them so they feel lost and they feel trapped and then they may be trying. Live something then not without knowing. There's a whole world in a different state state or whatever way zooming back home like. It's being open and honest is is really important and talking about things you know. I think we all go through that phase whether you're Hetero normative or a part of the LGBTQ spectrum especially in a small town in Seattle towns. It's it's kind of like a child into an adult doesn't know anything then what the raised around and observe so if you're raised to think something's not okay. You're raised to think that arts not like ever. GonNa get anybody anywhere where things like this then you have it in your brain and your train that way if like I have a three year old and and she's around everything because honestly to everything is normal. Everything is okay. If you're good. You're good if you go do bad things and that's bad like hurt. People feel bad. It's okay okay if you listen to music with cuss words and it makes you feel happy if it makes you feel happy house. Can this be bad. It's how you raise it. I feel bad for the kids. I didn't know I I wasn't dark place. I was eighteen out of my home broke out and was like Oh. I'm really not a bad person. It's a wonderful thing to allow. The kids is to absorb as much as possible and my parents had ruled. I'm so thankful for if great understand that he's allowed to watch it or listen to it but whatever I was the only rule yeah. That's really isn't that cool yeah thankful for that Massachusetts Liberals from Canada. Oh I got in a about the kids thing. I love that you exposure pleasure trap. My favorite thing is to see kids like drag branches and south. Oh yes the problem with hatred and discrimination is the lack of normality. You know people keeble are negative things. They don't understand sure you know we do it ourselves in the Lgbtq community you know it just until recently we were also very on on the fence about trans individuals. A lot of people in our own community was pushing hate on them and like not giving them a place in our community like well. You WanNa be a woman like you just want to be a woman to have sex. X was straight manner. You know there were all these stereotypes that even we were throwing on individuals which luckily we've learned from also like I think sometimes those those those people that are raised you know sometimes big city sometimes backwards to be racist or anti LGBT or whatever is because they probably haven't been exposed to a lot more positive black role model individuals and they're just being told like that you know the old old conversation Hannie like you know. We're not in the stone age anymore. So I saw on the billboard panel discussion about race with shake who lay ah yes you get a lot of interesting points about that about learning things in how you learn from Chez nous learn from other people yeah. There's something that Bob the drag queen said to me and and it made the most sense I've ever heard and it's I use Baba's reference because I during some of those times. He was very helpful to help me understand things and he said to me that even if you don't realize or understand or know that you're being racist you're still being racist and that's what people forget sure and I think in white right culture white people specifically. I think are very afraid to be seen as racist so they get very defensive at the conversation so the conversations are happening running and I think also people of color want to own that conversation and they deserve to so I think it's a it's about us listening versus us telling telling them what should be happening are what we think sure. Shut the fuck up and listen. You know you don't understand what they're going through just because you've been discriminated because you're gay or because because you're a woman or because you're a lesbian well. That's a completely different type of discrimination. You can't say what they've been through. You can't speak for them. You know I'm sure and you can't quit. quit your oppression or suffering with anyone else's now. You're absolutely right. I shake last one of the smartest advocates around along with Bob the drag Queen Yeah She's definitely taught me a lot. and that's one of the biggest things she tried to teach me. Lytham young people forget how to have conversations you know so much of the time when you talk about might discrimination even within the LGBTQ I world young people it makes me so sad when people who are oppressed who are marginalized still marginalize other people because ending being hot apply the same logic like Oh. They're doing that to me. I shouldn't do that. I am doing not to them. They do understand that they're doing the same of the people and people especially when you think about politics now the two shafting across like a chasm right rather than like having a meaningful discussion and it's just so prominent in the world is really Saad. God it is sad I think everywhere deals with the Jeff something to say look in politics a lot of times. They sound so angry. It's like uh don't come from a place of like when I listened to their message. It's like wow sadler angry like they're angry for what they want and I'm like Oh. That's when people shout at each other. The ends peacefully exactly unit out Ruth Bader Ginsburg said well herself. You know if you have to shout you'll you'll never win. The argument. Never and it should. That's my favorite quote of hers. Actually I'm obsessed with her. She's amazing talk so soft begins so much down so it's like the the proof in the pudding yeah Tory. RPG having that reminds me of quote ahead a put down verbatim from season ten a how and it's about expression of feelings and and you said tears are not express ugliness express beauty and strength people that show their vulnerability are showing strength not weakness which I couldn't agree with more and I think that's something that people forget sometimes. I'll absolutely we live in a society where it's all about being happy and strong and we live in a social media society where it's like. Oh my God look at all the amazing things that I'm I'm doing even though I'm actually unhappy at home and I'm Terrell but I'm I'm making this fake lives. So people think that I'm happy so people think that's what you have to be and they forget that no sometimes today's Shitty. That's okay picture where I'm like. Oh Oh my God look at this giant Unicorn. That's what I WANNA see. Let me some real content. Vacuum broke look look at my carbon. It's literally Shit Pistons for my. I mean just being instead you're like. Oh let me make triangle the photo where I get this one beautiful beautiful Lake picture frame that has a quote on it and to the fullest the other half of the house is a cluttered mess you know behind. The camera is a complete disaster positive spin. I went to see Elton John onstage recently. Look on one of your more fibrous. Moments is like being in a film that he shows onto like that must feel pretty great right. Are you kidding. What songs it for which is it's so cool cool and we did very dynasty? As long as it's it really is fabulous. It's so funny. It ends up in like a catfight where we fall into the pool and we're all in drag like weeping trying to get out of this poll water. I'm like biting at one point at Mirabel Siaga harm. Yeah and it's just a fun moment. I think it just shows like how exciting and how fun that drags come into the culture that way not reliable. I get a shabby shabby. Just thinking that my face is behind Elton John's a always has did anyone see there was a video that surface recently of him and Rupaul doing a little duo together where they're doing choreography and he's singing and she's singing is breaking my heart. yes the three recently that resurfaces so big. Fred to divine back in the day and on stage with him on like you know on tour and things he's he's an amazing person. I want to meet him. So desperate is the first celebrity I had ever ran into really have that happen because I'm painters. I I want to go at the opening and he's just he's just got such a nice little pleasant or I sell real good ed just as good as he you expect him to be. He's just that good good human by standing there Russia's toward extensively as the opening act for Elton selected him to go on the road and so I worked with Rod on one of those tours as well so be in the presence of a serial he's so everything is shining dying hilarious you know and like the the main takeaway for me. I'm really good friends with him and the the most wonderful thing is seeing somebody who's done all that margin region has faced. All these things is just like the Huma I think humor is so important and he's like still interested in like a new drug green and like doing these cool things like new visual office a new paint a new you piece of art a new charity all this stuff like you can keep learning constantly and you can keep absorbing newcomers. That's the thrill of life is inspired to obviously obviously probably helps with its positive or like he's got seven clans keeping the creative juices going so you all worked with him on tour. What did you do obviously the opening act and I was driving the van for Rod documenting really screen. I have a license asking yeah documented. That's so cool. You obviously do music. What type of music would you consider jogging pop music really so like you're saying you're a big fan. I'm a huge movie Fan. So I wrote my last album about my a favorite dance. Sequences in movies like Mannequin Roaming Michele's high school reunion Don's strictly ballroom when I was growing up like equivalent of where you're from like the Welsh valleys. He's nothing happened you know so my escape was like these colorful worlds and like these crazy sheriff doesn't like Kim trial can control you know jouko trial and you just see these fabulous like life changing moments where people escaped like dullness and they have this amazing world older. I'm like I WANNA make that world yeah and you have yeah. That's what I try to do my music that's fun. That's amazing and I think that is the thing when you place like maybe that is why got into TV and film so much it is that escape also love that about Indian film. Yeah it is it's that hour and a half or you know who knows if Binge Watch a series for for seven hours. Were you escape into his own little world you know and it's there forever and I to be able to be that magic for somebody 'cause times you know and I'm having this Shitty Day. I watch one of my favorite movies and just chill and that's my time more if I'm stressed out from work or whatever you know. It's your your me time. You don't have to go to the to the theater theatrehouse which I want theater to survive. Please God every day that it does. It's a wonderful crowd. you know sometimes it's easier to sit and watch your movie or watcher musicals on tape. Oh yes certainly what are some of your favorite movies all mine out there. They are all over the place so so we were dying okay well. I have to actually start my first my number. One is the weirdest slection center stage. I don't know if you've ever seen you know I think it's a ballet we somewhere in my heart. I thought I was going to grow up and be a ballet dancer. that did not happen but so there's right exactly. I love the early Freddie Krueger movies and happiness. I don't like the first one it's the scary one I load. That's such an like a novel thing usually people various about the first of all like number two. I love number two but I worship number three. Yes me the S. six credits when he really got Cambier yeah and then I also loved as far as horror cecchi texture area and then my other favorite movies ever after with Drew Barrymore is like my favorite Cinderella Roger Hammerstein's Cinderella. I don't know why like Cinderella but Roger. Hammerstein's Cinderella is most inspiring of movies because just the casting was so diverse you know and I don't think it got the credit it deserved because of it for whatever reason if it would have came out and now people would have understood okay sure I think it coming out ten years ago. People were like Oh my God. This is weird so the DADS why the MOMS black kids Chinese. We're really confused adopted. You know no that's as the world tr- it's so. I think that now it would be a great movie. I I wish more people watch. CHEP so many hard. How about favorite divine performances divine. Are you kidding. Oh Yeah Yeah Polyester obviously is well. Yes female trouble the number one don't travel polyesters funny but there is a dialogue. I have to say cause. That's my favorite moment and I use it in my life montage. Now it's at that towards the end of the movie. She's making out with a girl and the GEL female travel and the girls girls like Don. Why don't you understand you're about to die. You're literally about to be electrocuted to death in this isn't show anymore. It's not a show and do is just like darling. Harling win is the world going to understand my entire life as a show I like and then of course the iconic doc moment. She gets electrocuted to death. I love every flock and that's why I do love the abrupt ending congrats nothing just answer was call and friend of mine said that he couldn't get into that movie as much because Devine's the victim yeah but it to me. I was like you know Glenn is an artist was you know of course everything about Glen. Mills said I'm the name to where he was born. In Pittsburgh got you but he was such an artist because outside of drag what I loved about him and it's kind of what I I think I relate to is. He's actually Kinda chill. He's very loving. He you know wants to just hang out with friends. Maybe has more insecurities outside of that that character I think he was is a very unhappy person outside of the character because he didn't really know how to discover himself but his drag was away to like let that anger and confusion and and he grew up in a different time. We don't know myself I'm twenty eight years old. I don't know the struggles of a forty a forty year old gay male or even even a thirty five year old game now because I feel like just in the last five to seven years yeah so much change in really the last five years versus what it was even before then sure I'm so I'm coming into an era where it's been a lot more acceptable than it was so and has family disowned him until he became mm famous so I I love the divine character because all that anger and you now I just I don't know I love divine. I can go on and on about her yeah. No that's fine here. What is fabulous divine face on season ten. I was inspired by Oh my God. I just went blank field trip because in the opening she's like the schoolgirl and then towards the end. She's like the you know crazy like criminal yeah yeah crazy psycho. Whatever you know getting executed which Bagai basically in the beginning kinda victim she like randomly runs away. She's being a bitch obviously to her family. She's a crazy ass little little girl but you know now who knows why but then she runs away from home and then randomly gets raped and CEO yeah. There's some victimizing moments. That's what I was inspired by. Bro So like she's being a bitch. Obviously is the coolest site side comment. You can make me choose obviously being abandoned her momma. She likes throwing the Grizzlies. Uh what am I fucking. Okay real calm down a sympathetic character say relatable relatable. What Child Child Child Hill are you you fan of Devine's work outside of the John Waters Cannon like less than the dust that Sarah. I like less than the death but it doesn't do it for me as much you know there's something about the dynamic. Mike Between John Waters and divine that was just allowed any of her other work. Even her role in the was not matlock. What was the she played a male role of lines. Maybe it was a it was a lawyer. Low type sure right before she passed. It's a mainstream TV Roy. I forget the name of the show top hat. Please forgive me. No it's okay. I can't remember either but it was right before she passed and that was always her dream was to make on primetime time television as Glenn as Glenn was going to be the new next door neighbor married with children right past think the day before shooting or something in his hotel room in Beverly Hills on the third floor preview saga. Okay I love I love it script setting neatly beside a ball of Buffalo Wings Barbecue style don late neatly on the couch like they say the stories say that he was laying so perfectly like he knew it was going to have okay yeah I think he died of a heart attack. Yeah I think so yeah. It was like respiratory issues barry like smoking right. She lagaan Gone John John. Maybe Louder 'cause he was a weed. I I I I dabble yeah. I mean we live in. La We're in California if you don't if you don't at least hit the weed you're rude yeah exactly. I do d'appel but you know I try not to do during the day because I realized or or if I do an upper type of wheat I get real paranoid and Mike thanks to match match help with that. Hey Greg Karen from finance here. I just wanted to give you a quick. Call and thank you so much for having me over yesterday. I had a really great time at your place and thank you so much for the is I had a quick question for. You never really hurts so you don't mind me asking. I guess it is a little bit awkward but I use Guy Anyway. It's it's a big deal. I just thought to find. It's always nice to note anyway. give me a call back by just want to talk a little bit about again the season nine and season because not a lot of people get the chance to go back. I mean there's all stars but that's a totally different situation. What was the journey of going back there because he went through so much with being injured and also also being out of commission for a while so you couldn't work really my work was very limited inbetween but I had to work anyway so I was like doing shows on crutches L. hosting pageants whatever could locally whatever I could local alarm that I'm asking a question so trying trying to have a baby so it was really it. Was It was difficult. You know you work what you could. I think people had this the idea that Oh will you rica's traveling all over the world and making all this crazy money and she's got a disadvantage by coming back because of but they were wrong long. I got to work for a few months after the season was aired as far as making money and it was very limited. I was in such horrible debt because I was hardly working because of my energy injuries I also help. Take Care my my family. I also was like trying to juggle all that and my mother had been diagnosed with cancer right so when I came back to season ten when I left my mom was in a really really bad state with her cancer right before Chemo and she wasn't talking or anything anything so it was just so intense situation to leave but she literally was like no. You have to go even working so hard on this so you know coming back was very emotional at first because then I also had a little ptsd at first because I was so paranoid. I'm like I might break. Something again. Hurt my knees earn. I didn't realize lies till like the second episode we start performing on the stage. You know my knee was getting sore which it naturally did when I walk too much still because I'm GonNa always have problems with that name for the rest of my doctor told me that you know you're GonNa have arthritis in it because you have scar tissue so that's going to happen sure I'm hearing too late and then so all that and then the emotions of family family not knowing how my mom was doing. I it was really hard at first you know but I'll I'll never forget. I had to Lipsey against coury which was over because I didn't want us to the other bigger. Hommos yeah you know I'm very pro bay grow biaggi because the bitches gagging after that lip saying it was is like the most intense moment but I need it to snap back into reality. I'd be like no. You're not a victim. Your mom is the victim first of all so stop using it as a crash to stop being wine as baby and trying to play the victim like Oh poor me. I'm back here and I had all this happened to me and now I can do it so it it really kicks into gear and I remember going backstage to the girls because they hold us while they take the other girl through the untucked to like get their stove sure so we can't. I can't see them again. At that point. You don't see the girl that got home ever until after the show yeah so they hold us back there and I just came downstairs said I love all y'all say you're a brand new person today. I'm never doing that again and that's when you know the the competitive really kicked in and I showed up so there was difficulties but I think I also had a little difficulty with some of the girls because I was there were turning queen assure fixing says something about that having an attitude about you because of season nine the idea well and she had an opinion about me from what she saw on TV sure and that's the same thing with the fans I liked dimension to they always have opinion on the girls or who they are as people yeah because what you see on tv but even though it's reality TV. It's circumstances that you're under at certain pressures. It's also a drag as personality. DNV In county and we do like each other and actually argue yeah exactly that that's what's make drag fun. Yeah People Watch it. They don't want a nice pleasant sees America's like Oh. Did you do your custom. That was reason nine they they literally call season nine the coon biopsies so sweet and it was weird weird 'cause like the small moments that were negative. That's what made it looked. Even more negative sure yeah. Are you trying to come from me. I don't take everything straight. Don't say negatively EH negative negative now. You're casting this whole line grow. Where were you like a big fan of the franchise before you you gotTa obsesses my favorite TV show ever some of your favorite queens. Oh from the show Bob the drag Queen Latrice Tori Al Manila Luzon share needles. I liked Roxie Andrews. Both of her seasons. Yeah aginst monsoon was smart. Bendel cram a so so many of them so many flowers Tammie Brown's my all time favorite because she's such an BBC's Ohio. I can name so many that I love from the show yeah yeah and then like even Besir nine and ten Sasha Vlore as an artist is like literally you can't hold a candle to that are peppermint such a beautiful trans ally season ten. We've got Asia. WHO's like the epitome of like what pageant drag is sure now and even aquarium has grown on me. I mean at first I thought it was like a skin tag that might turn into can't turban actually turned into a beautiful birth mark. That's the shape of a heart. I fell in love with with her too and she's doing great things. I think she's helping like the young kids see the beauty and the drag thing. You know like we forget I with things like Gaga born this way. That didn't speak to me because I was like an older. I'm thirty six so like a couple of years like into the more confident site of being a gay man right but I then I have remember that like the kids in like the equivalent of my valley for them. That's like their affirmation that they're going to be okay. She's doing that the younger outreach to reach which is a huge thing and there's also things that you know as far as like the show people don't get to see the things that happen off the show that make these people the beautiful humans they are account one. I'll say I was on tour and we were at Halloween Horror Nights. Universal we went there was a ride. I wanted to write desperately the Green Dots Bank ride and the Hogwash Ville or whatever and I couldn't fit on it so I got off. I went to the Kitty Room. Whatever waited for them to get done. Well the next ride. They were like. You'll find it so I get on the ride. I couldn't fit on that one either and the Clark Guy was making this weird big deal about it like well. You have to go like being hateful and Aquaria up and off the ride with me with me and that's like those little moments where you're like. That's where the sister had comes in. They got to rewrite it a couple times. The lines wasn't busy and we were getting the Patriot went for sure yeah and she was like now. I'm good meaning. Reeker talking. We're having fun you know now and then they did a third time and I was like please go right ahead and make me feel better that you do you know she did finally get to read it you know and then there's also like Asia you know people. Kinda got a bitchy. Ask kind of vibe from her but she'll be. She's very motherly. She's the one that's like if you're sending too close to the edge of the stage where she's like literally freaking out grabbing you know sure well. She seemed to be very protective. -tective in how helpful everyone even being able to sort of break through the vixen there were moments with the Vixen to. I think people focus so much on the negative but they forgot ah to remember that win. Blair Saint Clair broke down about her Miss Happenings at a college party. The victim was the first one to hug her and like I'll beat that motherfuckers ass are like the real people in human side yeah you know and ultimately her message was for a better editor for the greater good of you know the LGBT and I saw but she had a shadow really weird way of expressing it and she did not like like me clearly so it just shows you know like the the human sides. These people like Alexis Michelle. I think she got a bad rap for c-9 over the silliest staff because she got mad over our fare doing the you have more background than a Pillsbury doughboy bakery or whatever and she got upset and had are felons her and people automatically like nick just treated her like she was being such a badge and Crawley. That's how we're suppose we supporting equality and positively and just because she showing an insecure Mahmut like don't tear down for it so I think she's underrated but she's like literally. One of the kindest will give you the shirt off her back. People feel Hera is also one of those people I think sometimes the biggest villains we thinker villains are actually like the nicest people I mean. We're clea and maybe I think there's truth. When it comes to your enemies make you who you are you know and maybe those experiences that she went through and saw the villainy that she came across made her work even harder for the positive side of herself sure because I know it did me for nine when I had those moments argued that even the fight with the vixen on season. I was so ashamed of that especially watching it yeah. I I liked defensive offensive. I want to stick up for myself like you ain't GonNa treat me any different because I've been fighting that my whole life. I was very upset with myself for reacting the way I did and taking. Oh you know screaming back like that like grandma ground than that you know sure but that's also what made the fight more intense because I'm like embarrassed myself so now. I'm like yelling even more than you can't. Stop Bright Right because now you're so angry yourself that you even more than you. Keep going along figure out how to explain why you're right mistake. I made in that fight is when I was leaving to go to an to outside to smoke. I quit smoking. Bt Dob Oh congratulations I still get my little nick fix which is a lot better for my body. Oh I'm constantly yeah very very friendly. Not I'm going to call you terry. I'm actually now also vegetarian. Oh congratulations are never just retired but when I was going outside side you know I was so embarrassed by this will be able to understand. They thought that I intentionally started a fight with the mix and that wasn't the case you know I was trying to defend myself to mayhem as we're walking looking outside and there's a line that was used against me for so long in that argument and it's when I said well I was testing her. I knew she was like that but that was me trying talking to make excuses for my behavior right like oh well. This is why I acted that way This is control but the truth is is no. Bs You lost control Paul and use a massey how she was messy. How back and then y'all started? Click clack and whatever it made for great. TV sure but you know it was a moment where you both locher Narva Avenue q so that's what it should have been. You know but I'm so it's just it's TV you know and people people's perceptions too. You know so that's interesting. I've actually never told anyone that. Would I guess so congratulations. Thank you very much. It's a very special damn whims leave Fisa. He's like people can watch something like that and be like. Oh God I've done that as well. I need to remember like next time to dislike. Keep my cool like it's important to see these moments on TV so so that people can see what their own behavior looks like to other people right like we don't get to see that all have arguments like that. It's just not on TV if the TV while he was a horrible feeling it's almost like a a roommate to situation for a while and your in an argument and we all want to win so it's like I gotTa Win. This widen. Look like a fool that whatever I got the last word to win because it has to confirm that you're right right right otherwise you feel foolish. You're wrong and you acted a fool and now you're even more embarrassed by the press and international right literally my Tan Mermaids and then you're trying to explain to one roommate like Algebra knows. She's GonNa act like that. So I wanted to grow. I wanted to test her and I think honestly honestly even to this day. That's the thing that for whatever reason the Vixen has in her mind that I did contrive that argument with her right that was not the case and there was also also other footage that well not but there are other things happening in that moment yes. I wanted to be involved in the conversation. Did I deserve to be snubbed off because I wasn't one of like the girls. I guess that's what I've heard explanation. No I did not deserve to be snubbed off. Blair didn't deserve to be snapped off like it was. We wanted an inclusive conversation. There were other people getting cut off to you and it just happened to be that y'all saw the clip where I said I'm tired of hearing you all talk and that's exactly how the fuck I fell tired of hearing them talk. I'm going to go to my cigarette and I was actually not talking to the I was talking to the people behind the camera okay. I'm like so I don't tell me I'm not going to smell because yeah they have to monitor that too because they need content so sure you know unless you have someone that can go out with you all right to film film out there and then the cameras have to go out there with you like show so sometimes they'll be like okay wait five minutes ten minutes but at that point. I was just like I'm going to smile cow ow sorry so luckily mayhem came you know we got to talk and of course it's and it gets on camera acquire gabbing with her sister like trying to over explain why you reacted reacted to anyone on the phone or whatever but it has to be preserved for forever because you're telling that person on the phone your version of the story so you don't look out and also so you can feel better about yeah. You're you're over explaining and excusing it when those actions aren't really excusable but at the same time we all have those moments you'll do yeah. I have friends who are on the show van pump rules and sometimes I wonder if they actually get an added benefit from sometimes having to relive those incredibly hostile moments with the judge I when they film it then when they see their and then they have to go through the reunion. It's actually an interesting thing that a lot of people don't get to do to revisit a fight with someone else. I wonder if it brings them further clarity or if it just brings the negatively back. It's a big mirror right exactly yeah. That's something that most people don't get to have happened not that. It's fun right. I think that's another. Here's why vixen left the reunion. I think she knew that it was just going to be a hey. Let's pick everything that you did and honestly like weirdly even though I was kind ah the negative party for that moment because it was like oh well. You're telling me how I need accurate. Nobody's telling you recall. She should act sure we'll charity told me how. I should act and that I shouldn't have been too much and I said yes. Ma'am you know what I mean. You're making an argument but at the same time I kind of agreed because it's like why don't we talk about. Is it possible talk about. Maybe a good thing she did on the show. I wouldn't want to be that person. That's being basically grilled like okay so you said you came to fight now. Let's talk about all the fights all the negativity that show why Baba did have a problem with you that house everywhere everyone thr- three hundred when it was time to send someone home. That's not something then you WanNa relive at that moment. 'cause the show put you through. Emotional damage also the online responses. I'm sure it's really not the show as much as it is. The online response that the the the emotional damage for sure bill truly delusional and brutal online. Yeah like twitter is such a scary place. Sometimes because people people you can hide between behind an Avatar and they absolutely crazy avocado deep some people I really bored. Some people think the the that's what you have to learn and it takes time you know after nine I was the victim because I got hurt sure sure so even though at first people were like. Oh my God you Rica's to match. I can't believe she said that Valentina or you know the don't joke about that moment you know making the a eating disorder. Joe Sure I'm stuff like that. Those moments that I had happened at the end of the day I ended up injuring myself and getting home for injury so then I was the victim you know so then it was was like hard for people to like really hate on the poor like little girl that broke away now show and so I got kinda saved even though I had my haters always is be some great thing right now. Always you can always rely on them. Of course I didn't really get to experience it because also I went home for so people. Kinda were like more worried about the currencies and it was like oh we'll see her again next year because that's what they had in their hand. Kinda like slid under the radar a little bit first season I assure when it came to the like real huge like flat ah lash back from the fans and stuff but season ten making it to the end I mean you are the direct you know people and they always have to have somebody to hate on. I like or dislike out of the top four three or whatever there's somebody for him because they love it. We love dramas humans. We'd love conservation weirdly Lee. We like to have things to talk about certainly now and it's easier to talk like it's more fun to talk about. Oh my God. Did you hear how they were fighting gross. She was going in Blah instead instead of sitting here talking about Oh my God. Did you see how beautiful her roses are. No Sir you may not right. She grew them herself. No patience. I know serving in season nine though so yeah of course it was just like brand new fresh. Sir Thank you. I was filling. I mean I was ready. Season nine fell but for whatever reason God's path or and or my divine path was definitely designed differently divine like actual yellow hair uh-huh. I love the taste of it killed blood. John Candy's divine all my God. I loved John Candy in in general yeah same here generally get enough of John Candy. SETV yeah my literal growing up. I had a few like female icons uh-huh but most of mine were like thick male comedian icons like Chris Farley John Candy John Goodman and these are the people. I wanted to be Chris. Farley honestly like when I tell you I had a funeral ceremony in my room when he died now like who says I want it to be so bad. That's where a lot of my comedy comes from really sketch comedy then to love sketch comedy and I love physical comedy you know and that's what was so magical about Chris Farley and then John Candy is his comedy so lovable. You know what I mean. That's true the other. Something very sweet like for instance would not be the same film with another act. Oh No God now now. Are you kidding now or planes trains and automobiles. Oh my God don't even get started playing automobiles that is really what an incredible movie and one of the few films Soga Ah Yeah of course Steve Martin's great but I didn't hear about him. I mean he's great right. I'm glad did you all had that thing to say done for the evening good night how my ah bringing down the house with a car into throw if anyone live. I live any favorite John Candy film specifically besides maybe strains yeah. Oh my God John Candy John Candy John Candy Andy. Oh nothing would travel my hot. Yes the trouble minds obsessed with that to number one John Candy first of all. It's the worst movie in the world it is but yeah he's he most hilarious ridiculous awful movie randomly. Jimmy more and and Chevy Chase and Dan Dan ackroyd digital underground directed it yeah and play no go ahead directed at the restrooms right behind the curtain there. Oh yeah on Elisa's going to everyone should have been so discreet honor yeah. She's probably GonNa Boo. We'll reporter later on the third Xiao. The coordinator would see according to the portable recorder in narrated. Corny urination journey inserted into the show. It's never my cable long enough to go in at the time now we've since changed that just coming in from the vodka last that'll be the what were you up to last night. Oh last night I did a friend of mine from Atlanta. His name's Braden mcdaniel couture chaos does hair leading hair designers Abbasid and beside integration and wigs and grace. You mentioned the other ones to be like those are my main hair design is he was in town. Let me just lean in from China and he's the one night and I was like you know what we're gonNA. Do It's Monday night. We're GONNA do the bar hop down. Santa Monica Yeah we started at tracks went to flaming Saddle Sang John Kerry al Qaeda and show showgirls yeah ended up at the after party he already been to the Abbey so we didn't swing in there but we love you to Abbey we so then we ended up at Fhu Barbara. I was so wasted rarely trays sweater. I think so okay six and Mike Joe was hosting. I think as you say his name the Twerk e Tork Tork Mr Tortora keen on talking about it was fine. I ended up girl out yeah. I was so I didn't even remember getting on the microphone apparently housing at some point myself and taking the kids to church urged all his West. I was talking to this morning honey and she was like I said grow what happened at fooball last night because I saw I've been tagged in a few video and she was an all girl. She said you grabbed a microphone are taking the kids to chartres talking about trade the night let the habit but she was hilarious. She's grown. Mama was drawn. Well Spirit takes you take you came out of food bar and I was on the street just like go my God. I'm fucking love Remember that and I still call her a liar. The poor unfortunate souls justifying this of course is one of the bartenders like dresses as Ariel. I where where have broken ankle I was like standing on the edge of the little platform stage thing they have and it flipped over. I like almost my ankles like halfway through the song I was like Kat it sorry under these conditions and they literally just let it keep playing and I was like I'm not doing this anymore. It was the mouse that was because I was like I can't grow. That's God saying calm down on this house. I'M GONNA take it easy. You had a couple of shots half in one night or four bar hop Fubo four and a half Larry. I love how in America people go. That's hilarious. The least funny thing a human being is that is hilarious. That's so funny. It was such a culture shock moving to this country people black that is so funny. It's kind of like relearning how to speak English because like everything is just so different. Do like Oh have a nice day. Yes that there's absolutely amazing and you're like Oh my God what it's like text to speech yes sometime right. It's the emotion isn't like you know like British. People just like they just want to make you know that everything is like as it is. They'd be like they're not often as enthusiastic was complimentary but when you like that is hilarious. I even traveling there. I've noticed they're not like they're very direct. they just they'll joke lot. They love to shout and be catty and you know kind pick but they won. They apologize. They don't have as much as Americans. Do I feel and they definitely don't like I don't know they are very direct does not like a funny thing. It's just like it doesn't sound funny yeah. If you did something hilarious people would just laugh out of that. It's hilarious talk. It's just such an unusual reaction you like the Americans arrays to need validation constantly right uh-huh. I think we speak in a form of validating validating each other potentially weirdly school like it's you know I think in a very different way in in America and it's not challenge. I took that road to go slice away. That's what we do though I think we do live in Americans like because it's the land of the free and we have the option option to like literally. I'm question everything but we also like. All you know. People Minorities Sizes Shapes cultured Richard. We all want validation from this country. They were as ways to like constantly. Be Pushing Validation on people on the people around US weirdly. I have a question for you on that but the first question is we we do think I'll movie club for Patriotic O'Callaghan would love to have you come back for the movie club for nothing but trouble. I would love that Debbie great so we'll talk about that more in the future but Ludi clever we do is we basically I'll watch we watch the movie and then we have listeners from Patriot Sen comments and questions related to it we have them watch out well and then we do just a fool like movie review of we talked about our favorite parts the parts that is stupid ass play clips from it and then you know sometimes they go on longer than the film Sir. Yeah Rod is going to be doing one on rummy. Michele's high school reunion love that movie favorite movie. I can't say my favorite movie because I have so many. It is one of my favorites the biggest movie buff I've ever movie burr noted the posters when you walked in excited to get into yeah yeah. I just what now I WANNA. Tell you more movies. I like do it on Romaine Roman Michele's high school reunion askew of course obviously but I also love jaw breaker she Delo yeah. I made her watch. It recently got eh takes a lot to get her to watch an entire movies. I was really really shocked. What what is it with films. You just have a high bar or you know. I think I might be a little little bit of a critic. I if it's not if it's not if it's not the best stories zoomed in or if I noticed people are yawning or something and obviously the movie's boring my heart and soul is Mary poppins and I think I'm kind of a little bit like her like. I like to make everything fun but I'm still a little bit stern article verschoor yeah but I mean I. I like the good ones so many people have more good ones than others. I I have one or two like Mary. poppins Greece Scott me to Greece's my try. I like it better trying to bring needed a discussion better than the first one. I don't remember where agrees on my God now if I remember it's good if I don't remember it on. It's not obviously corrine cycle songs from that movie than the first one. He came came out of the darkness in the middle of you. Don't hire out over this God. I I love it. I love it. Have you seen drop dead gorgeous. I've watched that three talk w y all amazing grabbing grab show. I know I love Greece two. Oh and you know also you just made me think of. I Love Freeway Pittsburgh Yeah. I can't believe the vinyl for Greece to him so gagged. Oh Yeah it's fabulous raw God now over here. It's like so I'm a girl for. LC's everything away and I remember the first place I saw greasy left such an impasse row. Where was that was. Probably it was when that be which song came out so whatever year that was that they did like an anniversary edition the cinema rests. It's the parents are hanging out and I was downstairs washing movie and I I just that's it. My whole life was remade from that moment. uh-huh do grease. It's a good movie. It is but Greece two is just so underrated number one musicals fan than bombing. Everyone seems to be here. uh-huh maybe either musicals always got me. I- costume yeah sure yeah OH RANDOM CASA movie that I love is Mir. MIRA would Julia Roberts so I haven't seen that Oh my God it's a random. Maybe they released it when they released no white and the huntsman okay so that like all the kids were like. Oh my God i WanNa go see snow. Y Yeah Yeah but the parents are like no. Probably they released at the same time. I think Disney did just to kind of Mir but the costumes are insanely. You would love it just for the costuming. It's stage. Beauty is one of my that might be my number one favorite movie. I've heard of it but I don't know much about it. It's it's a movie about like the you know the I think it's the eighteenth century like when men would play women onstage only so it's about the era where King Henry the seventh actually outlawed outlawed men playing women on stage because his mistress went to an audition and one of the stars in that in the village or whatever the hell they were then he refused her no-go and so of course she goes to the Kenyan you know so he outlaws a and it's just a story about where dragged kind of comes from how Alan how it became like a comedic place because the only place this guy could find work to the story of the of the movie ultimately ends with him being in a bar doing comedy staff with a bunch of drunk hecklers so it's an interesting lack true story of how drag started 'cause that's literally wear drag began and it was the it was dragged addressing dressing like a girl yeah as what it referred so it's an interesting movie very interesting so you seem to have a fun as for history as the history of drag a history of a lot of things. I love a good documentary Google in style. I like things explained. You know I do love history. She likes to read and she's got. The degree. Got My favorite character in the entire world. What a diva like Queen Elizabeth was far. Ah I haven't seen that film. Queen Elizabeth is going to have to check that. They need to make that one. What would slash stage show good. They need to show her crazy side of that definitely yeah. She was so bitter jealous of Mary. Queen of Scots literally imprisoned her and then had are beheaded for bullshit. Reasons people believed her first of all. It's rumor that she was a lesbian because she refused to have any children which was because she refused to have have sex with men and then to Mary Queen of Scots had only boys she and she was the rightful heir to the English and the Scottish throne by blood that when Queen Elizabeth's first has been our father died. I don't remember that part of the story. I don't care about Mary. Queen Scott's but like basically among the fiercest part is this is the story is like at the end out right before she dies. She comes out with her maidens there. In all black I'm the come out in a triangle formation and they lie live up where where the executioner as and she pushes her arms straight out one on each side and to have her maidens grab the wrist of address and they tear often it turns into a full red like ballgown like she made this martyr statement and literally the last thing she said is my only last wish as that Queen Elizabeth meets her fate and my son will truly role both kingdoms and thirty years later. Queen Elizabeth died without an heir and her son Road England blend and Scotland dragged on it. I love that story and it's a cool story. How about music with some of the hot box listen. I'm Tom well the big grocery coherent. It's a real crap tunes tainting music doc I love. I love Lizard Right now. Bodied Ha's beautiful unafraid and a great show too oh yeah yeah she was. She was a great guests. I gave her my course after the runway. Actually she's in love with my course when she was critiquing me and I was like well you can have after no. That's right via Saini so we did. We come out to do the little dance yeah. I didn't lie grounds at my core. I threw a header said no mamma. Keep doing news fairs. That reminds me also. Did you have any kind of anticipatory dread head or a leading up to the group dance numbers because you've got injured in a group dance. Not why did the first one but I kinda got past that. That's after having having to live and get going through that fear. I realized like if you let this fear hold you back. You're not going to do as well as you want and that's why at that point. I that's where the the Eureka that argued with the vixen came from okay and that was in defense mode sure you know the next day and I had just realized like I'm not going nowhere. I'm not putting up a bullshit. Shit and Y'all are not sending my big ass home yeah so I was in like competitive mode for you. Okay so and then after that. I think think I was a little I was a little anxious for probably the the final performance because it's the top four you know and you do you do your verse. It's like the ultimate ultimate dream is to get a a verse and Rupaul Song House drag race which I got but also the choreography was not easy and we had to do it. We did it four times in in a row yeah five hours before we actually started filming we had just finished rehearsal because it stayed like a super late the night before we are saying over and over and over so we got like two hours of sleep before we had to get up get in drag and performing in front of Rupaul Carson Crossley you know Michelle is Ross Mathews. All of them were they're setting their perched sure right in front of the cameras screens so they get to see all angles so note is nobody realizes how hard choreography is to remember is in such a short period of time a twenty four hour period. You're not working with like you know casual light choreography working the people who are giving you mind-bending so everyone's like Oh. How do you remember that like it's so incredibly hard copy well in choreography with girls. That are three feet shorter than you are and you have to be in sync rouse. You look off move where you have to like. Doohan twirls and go down you. I have to go down further to look at it. You don't look off yeah and that's where I think I impressed obviously especially a toddler because he was a little worried because there were moments like that's what I can have critique time so it was just harder. 'cause I'm like in drag. I'm like six foot eight. You know what I mean. Literally four inch heels like four to five inch Tehran you know so I'm like literally he went and kit it when he says I'm like the guy from the Green Mile. Don't call Steve Austin out there and drag just big hail. Do you also cure people's urinary tract infections by covering their crotch because that was the standout moment for me of that film. Oh what so the first time Tom. Hanks realizes that Michael Clark Duncan Scherzer has some special gift he asked Tom Hanks why he's having trouble peeing and then he just hold his crotch watch and then he's good as a cure to around Stephen King. Has this weird thing. It's like like a recurring urinary tract problem a few of his books and then went Tarantino's obviously obsessed with their go so we have like all the directors have fun. There's always always something. Another talent of drag. Queen is their ability to hold their bladder town the drinks and go all night you and I I also I have to step out. Oh yeah you have to go. Get your child my child I wanNA pursue this agenda activities. I mean there's nothing we can do to stop you. sounds like you're getting ready to get in to go mass. I think I'd like to leave my three year old behind but I kind of really like it was lovely having. I think this has been fun watching the way that you look at Eureka when we're talking about stories. I really hope that everyone in the world has a friend. I'd like you know we always like I. I WanNa cry and give you a grammy you. I love you so nice to meet you to meet you. Thanks so much. Finally I finally seeing your face and thank you for having me on whimsically volatile volatile yeah thanks serving on. It's been lovely and looking forward to having you back for movie club. Oh yeah another chat another chat to if you want to join us as well that'd be. We'll make her watch. What that she will probably think is a horrible movie but we will make it even better? I love you guys yeah okay. They help girl girl uh-huh Yeah uh-huh the.

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Best Of: Ric Flair

The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz

1:06:36 hr | 1 year ago

Best Of: Ric Flair

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With with this to podcasts. This carnival needs to get on up the hell Outta town and I came here today. I came here today. I'm not kidding and somebody was in my parking spot and yeah uh and and I I will find. I've told them No. I gotTa told I told some. ESPN employees car. Yeah no I told him get him out of here like what is your. What is the matter with these people people? What is the? I got the tow truck back out of my garage. I don't use it that much but I came down here and I wrote it myself. We were listening hugh on the feed here while you were doing something forced to potty. I'm looking at your face now. You're wearing the ravages of super bowl debauchery. Well on your face and Mike said you sounded like Harvey firestone. I could not believe terrible. Look at billy laughing you sound so bad. How many MM cigarettes have you eaten this week? couple dozen. I mean I don't know last night was a tough one man. I had like Thirty Beers. I have doing the show and the shirt did I slept in last night. I have no power my battery I mean I have no closed left. It's Super Bowl Week. Dan What is a manner with him billy late like how bad does he smell like a Li like liquor in diesel fuel. Now he's perked up some like when he walked into the house like. You seem a little grouchy today. I don't I know what was going on. But yeah he he I asked him. I go you look like that. Looks like a sleeping series like this is sort. I slept like buddy. I just walked right at today. visit he's GonNa get one o'clock one o'clock buddy. He's GonNa they get mad. I walk into radio grouchy because when I met with every morning is Lorenzo. He's played hey that dude's a plague US question publicly and privately Lorenzo. Where's the stuff you're working on? Can we get it and use it. Are we going to get it in June the oldest stuff that you're working on the you're dragging us in every damn direction. When are people going to see it unlikely? But that's how you taped. TBT's Dan tape something and then six months later everybody forgets you did it and then you just to Hashtag. TBT's Milton from office space like accepting except. He's tricked us like he's always working on something and I never get to put it on the air you brock is today I bring this up so we can and also because it no look. The whole week has been infuriating for a variety of different reasons. Not The least of which is Lorenzo's really tired from from doing a lot of work none of which we can use. He's exhausted Miss President this morning. Also and then I get this from Lorenzo. I get this last night. Hey can you round up your mom and your brother for me tomorrow. I'd like to use them. Were you surprised by the Super Bowl this week. Lorenzo like you're asking me the last day day. Can I round up my family to work for you. Lorenzo or do you worry me at the end I read it pretty hot today. I told that. Oh you think I'm kidding. I told somebody I can't believe you did that. You didn't do that. Did tell. Somebody what are you doing in my parking spot get the hell out of my parking parking spot. Say People think then run this place. These people think they run this place. It's good one air. I know I know it's a good one. But it doesn't actually say Dan Laboratory on it all the ballets no that that is where all of them know it. This person person just pulled it up and was like Whoa tow truck showed up and took him away but clearly one of the valets did not know that that was your spot really. Oh that's not what's happening here. The valley's must not have been there the moment I handled it beforehand. But what I'm telling you. They're closing that entire street down. Yeah the valleys not for the valleys would dare is what you're saying. I'm the one who gives them personally. The checks that they get so they would not have dared to tow my car or allowed anybody to park in my spot checks wchs. Yes I pay. Every few months I pay for the parking unlike anybody else around here I pay for the parking lot and you're the only one with ballet. La which is why you probably correct ballet drivers. They don't check like you're beginning to do extra work. Just give cash force it in the bank. The positive check the old ones writing checks and the other one actually goes to the bank to deposit and doesn't seem to understand is that the valets worked for somebody I'm paying a company so that the valets put my car where it belongs. Why do you sound so terrible? Why do you sound so defeated? What have you gotten into your bothered by everybody? You've been snippy off air. While enjoying all the fame on air of everyone walking back behind you so that all your televising is your back as you stare at Terry Bradshaw. AUSE CUL DE SAC head. Yeah I mean listen first off I got a little hole to begin with secondly the heaters that help thirdly the thirty years years ahead last night certainly aren't helping matters animated close. I mean it's been a tough week. I don't know what to tell Ya. I sound bad I look bad. But that's what Super Bowl radio arose all about. When you get the Friday dan you have to look bad? You have to smell bad you have to run out of clothes and you have to have no battery left on your phone or computer. You look recall most unrecognizable to me really. Yeah there's a lot of light it's bad laddy. It's poor lighting. I gotta be honest with you know that you that shirt is absolutely. I can't believe I cannot believe it's working on. ESPN shirt Mike. I want we're looking at shirt. That is absolutely the shirt that he slept in he is the biggest slob in the universe. He is the least professional person in the history of Espn Amick giggles spoken and written more awful big with Jerry. Yeah no makeup over here with this show in some form or fashion since I think dude houses and five ensue. God's muttering under his breath while you talk about him is still funny to me. It looks like he was hit with a cement mixer immediately. Got Up brushed himself on straightened out the shirt that he slept in Billie. Tell me look here Dan. So excited was little Nasdaq's addresses the cowboy. Expert smells horrible. Also by the way just took a whiff of it while you were describing it right. Yeah living in that show yeah. Slept it at By the way you don't look so great yourself over there donnas pretty good pretty good dress up today I look I. Can you even see me or you just riffing because this is as good as I've ever looking it but I can fix that. I'LL GO IN I. I I am sweating because of how enraged I was by my parking situation when I got here billy is your shirt sure tucked into explain to me. It is a moment yes so it was mine. Can you explain to me and the audience. Billy just not only that. The shirt smells bad but but for the radio audience. Can you explain. I mean beyond being slept in that sure does also super faded. It's trying to figure that out because it is his faded but I can't tell if it's one of those like new like vintage shirt put those it now because there's like a stain here in your belly button different color than the rest of the ink on on the shirts like this brown mark by your belly but definitely isn't part of this vintage style which leads me to believe but says E. S. T. Two thousand and four so this could cheesy eighteen or sixteen years old at this spot you're talking about that Stamos from the snickers bar last night before bad. Why on while while Super Bowl Week is here? Why when the media has assembled all around you you've got? ESPN in front of you. You've got the letters the letters those proud letters all around you. Why would you wear a shirt from two thousand and four again? Dan Ran out of close. Close Super Bowl Week. Should I know that Radio roads exciting. and You keep it. It looks bad today. It looks really. We sat as you pointed out but you turning to the side only exposes your gut right is massive. It has grown exponentially this week rebel. They Great Eh Super Bowl Week. That's what it's all about the Friday if you have it gave thirty pounds dot Super Bowl Week right and put it on the poll please at Lebatardshow when it comes to Friday if you haven't gained thirty pounds have you done super bowl week ten pounds. Everyone is so unhappy this this one. I don't understand it's been a week. Long snorting of Football Party and all of us are deeply unhappy right now. I wish I stepped on a scale yesterday. I was like whoa see some money Lebatardshow. Hey Dave Stugotz went up. These are show with Stugatz. Oh gods on ESPN radio ESPN. Radio is presented by Progressive Insurance. The Dan Le Batard show is brought to you by Shell. V Power Nitro plus premium gasoline. Salihi Kenny Chesney. Join US just a second here on the shell. Pennzoil performance doubts. Hold on hold on for just a second Kenny. Are you marveling as a man with a rich rich and the man who takes care of his voice. Are you marveling at. Just how cruddy he sounds like just how how awful the guy that is reading. In fact it's an acquired taste out. Imagine but it sounds good. You said yet a little Tequila last night a little. I've been having that all week. It's been explains Everything Super Bowl weekend. The Olympic torch show is brought by Chevy powered nitro post premium gasoline again. Kenny Chesney Joyce it just a second. God's strong words that strong work betraying praying Kenny. Chesney trust right off the top by saying on earth. I mean so hanging on air. Something he told you privately. That's a good way to death. Yeah so he got something. I didn't have a little two or three more nights. Here's your sportscenter update the NBA. All Star Reserves Abbott announced out of Mitchell Rodrigo. Bear Kyle lowry Bam outta bio Jimmy Butler. Or among those named Jared Jackson Jackson Junior Marco. Good Arik at Alfred. Payton was suspended one game without pay the NBA for their roles in an altercation. Between the teams Marcus Morris was was also five thirty five thousand dollars per se. Jae crowder played with female tendencies and finally support lay goes through ninety seven thousand in pounds of Avocados every day. So does Dan this shares way to win this Valentines is with roses from one. Eight hundred flowers dot com right. Now you can get twenty four multicolored roses for just twenty nine point nine nine or upgrade to twenty four red roses for only ten dollars more to order go to one eight hundred flowers dot com. Click the radio icon. Enter Code Dan for all the latest headlines and information tune into sports center on. ESPN radio all throughout the day. Put It on the poll. Guillermo please would you recognize Christian McCaffrey by justice face because he looks like he's fourteen years old. I'm looking at them here and I'm like why. WHY IS BOOGER McFarland? Talking to a fourteen year old on the set of I take downstairs. Kenny Chesney without With us you should check out his latest album songs for the saints. And if you want tour dates you go to Kenny. CHESNEY DOT COM Kenny. Thank you for joining us. I'd like you to take Take us back and sort of paint a picture for where your life was before for the success when you were being paid and enchiladas well. I went to school at East Tennessee State University in Johnson City and played a Mexican restaurant draw three nights a week and I just played for tips. You know I was playing some songs that I had written in my apartment that nobody wanted to hear and then songs but my heroes heroes and I would get paid whatever tips I made and all the docket eat a pretty good for a college student at the time and so what kind of tips are we talking about there when you say on the on the best and the worst nights what are you bringing home the worst nights would-be about twenty bucks. The best night's would be a couple of hundred and so how what happens happens next like one of the things that need to happen for Kenny. Chesney what happens next is I graduated East Tennessee state and then I'm mood moved to Nashville to be a songwriter. And it just went from there I was I. I always knew I wanted to do what I'm doing now but I it might take a while but I was I was engulfed in creating engulfing songwriting and that's where all this started. And then I went on the road in nineteen ninety-three and I'm still just kind of you know people ask me all the time for you. Know can you give me some advice on how to make it in the back of my brain. I'm going and they're never gonNA make it because you don't do it. Make it you do it just because that's what you do. And so that's that's the best way I can explain rapid assery down along the way right there has to be some. There's no I'm not saying it was all good moments because there was a lot look planned the places that we play now we were very blessed and fortunate. You know but but it hasn't always been this way we walk. We opened the tour this year at the Dallas Cowboys Football Stadium. We close it in Foxborough the Patriots Stadium Stadium. And so but I promise you guys. It hasn't always. We have always been and been in a place in our life to go play these places Kenny. I read here. We all love food food as you can tell from the display here on the table you have. What is your guilty food pleasure? Because I think it's going to the delight most of the guys back in our studio. Well I I love you know. I'm an emotional eater right so but I love. I love Italian I love I love Italy. I love red wine. I Love I but I don't get to you love Pasta when I'm training and go on the road so when I'm off the road I I eat a lot of carbohydrates grilled cheeses man. Why do real cheese two I love it right. Hundred percent one is go ahead. Make the perfect grilled cheese sandwich for us. help us out the perfect grilled cheese sandwich. I don't know it's gotta be Texas Toast Right and always helps one hundred percent and you know a couple of different kinds of cheese and I always like to put some Apollo Pianos in there. At All Y.. Yeah I love everything spicy. Kenny Chesney with us again. His latest album songs for the Saints Aints is available. And if you want tour dates you go to Kenny. Chesney Dot Com explained to me. How much of your roots is tied up? How much of your roots are tied up in the idea that you give a lot of your money away with success to some of the people who wouldn't normally get money from the star of the shows like I don't want to embarrass you here but you give away a ton of money to the people behind the scene so like explain to me how and why that came to be deep? Well we start. I started this thing every year. I've got I'm out there on the road with a lot of people that work really hard and those no those guys they get there before the ship you know early in the morning and late there late at night and I started this thing called merge lottery and we take one on stadium show a month and I take all the all the merge money that I make that night and what that means is the from the t shirts hats whatever the money we make that night and I give it. We put all the names of everybody that works for me in a Sombrero and I we shake it up and I'll pull a name out of the storm Beryl the hat and I give them all the money we make for murky at night. WHOA so the most that can wait a minute? You're talking about a quarter. Wait a minute you're talking like a quarter million dollars aren't you. That's yeah When we played the the seahawks football stadium one year and yeah the merchant would have been close to that maybe a little over that and the next week we pulled out a name and they got it you know but what they started doing is not taken? The money themselves they they ended up dividing it out throughout the whole crew in the Hauteur You know so I would have grabbed all waste holding onto that one. They spend a lot of money. So is it true that you shower three times a day but you don't like bars of soap. What do I showered shower to get up when I get up I shower and then after I work out before I start my day. Yeah a shower again and then I have to shower before I go to bed. 'cause I I. I'd like to feel cleaning with soap though. Yeah but no soap always had this weird thing about soap. I explain it. You let me ask you a question because I love body wash our talking my language but body wash as as you know. Well you're rich so this is different body washes expensive right so I'll get like a little Roma therapy stress relief body wash going on the upper half of my body because then I could smell it. But then lower-half I used some other other body wash. I have two three body washes that had in the shower and then it also depends obviously like you share a couple of times a day maybe late at night instead of the stress. One lillies the sleep. They get tired and you stop please. You have asked only a couple of questions the entire week of a guest. And you've just ask Kenny Chesney. Hey Give me information about about how you shower. Also I have a follow up question. It's not I convey Sibley how tell me about your show airing habits but then a follow up question it. Billy's defend veg- you're there we're here we're sitting next to Kenny. And he's joining the commerce asset this little long the better as it wasn't really a question kept talking just wanted to tell out of more right into his card Stugatz this libertad show with STU GODS ON ESPN radio bill. Though Booker McFarland the average Did you say American or just person. curses eight times a day. Are you over or under that booger McFarland. I'm under that I. I am under that as well Kenny. Gee How about Kenny G. Booger Yeah Stop the plane. I love the way that Booger McFarland. Just looked at me like what was happening. I also so love the way that Stu gods just said booger as if he were jealous. That booger McFarland is near US near him. Billy also looked up and was made a little insane by the fact that that the the great sent of booger McFarland is a very upset. I mean listen I am sprinting. Back to the studio forget about Mooch. I mean there's a better go back there McFarland slowly just providing background music for all your banter Thank you Kenny. Gee We always appreciate that report ten. Let's do this. Let's do this if you don't mind I want to ask Booger McFarland. Just a couple of questions and so if you would be kind enough to just play some light in the background that might convey the right mood we would appreciate it and then I'll get back to you in a couple of minutes. It's if you don't mind so booger this season. What did you learn? What did you learn about the job that you didn't probably the speed at which the game moves and like that was not necessarily alarming but that was the thing that early on was the most difficult and then later on in the season became became kind of second nature early on? That's the thing that you don't know until you sit in that seat in a real game not a preseason game what can you do differently like what what because I know I know. Athletes Don't mind coaching they get receptive to things that need to be learned. So what else do you want to add to how it is that you do the broadcast just become more myself. I think at times because you're trying to put on a television event. You concerned with that and not necessarily being who you are more personality now these so that. That's the biggest thing. I'm curious. What happened to the bigger mobile? And I get me one of those. Hopefully it's buried or disassemble somewhere enthrone away. Hopefully you're done with that. That was an experiment that you didn't like either are because I thought it was pretty popular. Now it annoyed some people but anything you guys do. Ah Anything you guys do is GonNa Bother half the people by the way Kenny G. is a hair fast and we slowed down. Okay just a little bit. Thank you out God. I just wanted to slow it down. kind of set a better survive bogaerts. Exactly you gotTa know the Booker Mobile Own on the surface was a great great idea but when you come to the execution not so much well explain this part to me because what I've noticed about that booth whoever's been in there whether they go Dennis Miller or Tony Kornheiser. The part that gets taken away by television. I don't understand why this happened. The thing that you're saying which is how can I be more myself as if there's not space for that in the Cathedral of how we televise these game. Well well. There is space but what you have to remember. It's not just football. It's about a television production. We are graphics. We have things that we have to sell that that we have sponsors that you have to put on it and you have to do all of that around the game which is happening in real time and I think that's the toughest part about it. It's a reality. TV showed you have no idea what's going to happen and you can prepare but you ultimately have to react to what you see and then in the midst of that you have probably probably I don't know a hundred people that are trying to do different jobs and you have one person a year year and that person is listening to the other one hundred and so it's it's a big compilation of a lot of things things happening. That can't come across like that because the viewer the viewer just needs to know it's football and it's me and leasing John. Perry talking athletes have have a very thick skin. I'm curious with all of the people trying to help you with the coaching with the people. Criticizing you has that been something thing to endure or has it been okay has been like I expected this. This is the world. I'm now trafficking my first day with the Tampa. Bay buccaneers defensive. Line coach Rod Marinelli told me and and I quote. I don't give a bleep where you were drafted his time to work and so I got indoctrinated into pro football with criticism with coaching with a spotlight on you being fifteen pick in the draft and that's never bothered me so that's booger McFarland a little quick. You can slow it down just just a little bit more excellent all right. I mean we appreciate you being so coach yourself go ahead and makes plain to Kenny. Because he's busy playing right. He's doing his art. And and I hate that. I don't want to disrespect Kenny G.. But if you want tickets and upcoming tour dates you need to visit Kenny. G. Dot Com is where you go real quick for Booger booger. Who are you? Hitching your wagon to this Sunday. The San Francisco Forty Niners Baby College Shanahan and John Lynch John Lynch goes into the hall of fame and Wednesday Super Bowl. That's a great home Kennedy. Thank you and wins the Super Bowl and the same weekend. How do you feel in general about the SAX? Do you have any opinions if you're walking around your house and stuff. I don't know how this works with you. Whether you have a snifter. I don't know what your home life I imagine. There's some Mahogany and there would things are things are just generally rich flavor. What what would be playing as you wander around I listened to watercolors a lot. In skinny comes on watercolors which is a nice little jazz station Asian on Xm radio. And so I could definitely see myself. Smokers jacket on. It wouldn't close okay. I need a chess. I need the chess hair hanging out. Nice silk boxers and a little light keeney G in the background as I have two candles lit by the door when I open the door and my uber each is delivered. They know exactly whose home they're still open. Everything opens. You gotta be comfortable the hell of a picture. This it's radio. You have to paint a picture. I learned what not to do from Stugatz where literally wearing what he slept in. uh-huh thanks booger again. Gets an upcoming tour dates. Visit Kenny G.. Dot Com Kenny We appreciate what it is that you're doing around here but We want to let the people know for tickets and I'm coming towards visit Kenny. G. Dot Com. Go ahead STU Gods Burger. What's the single most important thing? The forty niners need to do to beat the. Yeah I think they have to win with their four man rush you burger. I appreciate it What is what? He's answering the question right there. He's answering it for you. Should retire week. We were bothering Kenny. G. Bring a famous friend. Andy brought us. booger McFarland A booger Tickets and upcoming tour dates visit Kenny G. DOT com. I'm sorry to have wasted your time here again Kenny because because we didn't We put you to work and then all of a sudden next thing you know you look up and Booger McFarland down to slow down. And everyone's bossing you around and you're the expert here so I do apologize publicly for how rough all that was. That's okay I accept the apology and I out of respect to you. The only reason I followed those orders. thank you sir and it was great catching ching up with you. It was great having you around again for Super Bowl Week again. I want to tell the audience if you want to support the people who support US tickets and upcoming tour dates you visit is it Kenny. G. Dot Com. Thank you Sir was a lot of fun again this year. Okay have a great one guys talk to you later about tarred talking sports coit. It added as hard as they can. Stugatz these lebatardshow oh stugotz on. ESPN RADIO ESPN. Radio is presented by Progressive Insurance. There is a big man sitting by it is so much larger than billy. Look there at the Children's table eating chicken nuggets French fries and Derek. It looks like he looks action hero. You were so large or go ahead for God's Derek Ever GonNa join that's it just a second on the Shell Pennzoil performance line. He's enjoying a little foods of coffee. Get enough here. Here's your sportscenter. Update Greg Golsen. The Carolina Panthers have mutually agreed to part ways after nine seasons. The Red Sox are deep into talks with the dodgers about mookie Betts. The David prices name was also imagine finally months. That begin with Sunday's will always have a Friday the thirteenth. Just give me a weird look. Sportscenter is brought to you by Bolt twenty-four. Big Athlete is twenty four seven so stay hydrated rated with both twenty four with antioxidant vitamin A. FC electrolytes but mortar. Memory and there are no artificial sweeteners or flavours bowl. All twenty four all day idress Shit for all day athletes at each of Derek. Are you marveling at how awful he sounds and thank you for joining us. You were the sensation of of the playoffs. Unprofessional and awful. He sound you're thinking to yourself right. You're being polite but you were staring at him with a great deal of judgment and should have been. It wasn't too bad back. You Dad's my guy man. That is my guy. What what are you eating? I think it was like a seven liters over here and get some was. It was good. Yeah we got some breaking so grab me one. That was good. I bet it are. We going to give him some coffee or you're going to go get that like where is it. Where can we throw Seato here? have some of this Gwala. That's some good stuff right there. Oh Oh Dan. This is the largest fan I've ever sat next to. It's amazing that you play running back. It's unbelievable Dan a serious. He's the largest man I've ever seen next door my life milly. How many how many Derek how many Billy Gills the guy next to you what it takes to tackle you well. How many of those would it take to tackle you? Take take about three. Why thank you a little way? Review get tackled area. You touch me you. Just give me a broken on a dead billy. What happened with the awkward handshake by way of greeting with Derrick Henry? Because I saw that happen when he sat down around you He was doing it the right way doing everything wrong. What do you mean how do how do you get someone's hand? It felt like this wrong like this. How do you? Oh Yeah flimsy or you know you were thinking yeah handshake this this back and we'll go boom. That's it all right. Got Lettuce photo so hey hey just not overall coffee time Dan and wow cinnamon today. It's very hot. Don't worry about that billy. You handed him your hand hand as if you expect him to hold up his mouth and kiss it like a woman in the eighteen hundreds like. I don't know what it is that you were doing. Who Shakes hands that way? You know what I'm doing. Dan Enjoy the coffee. All of you take a shot of the coffee too. It's very dirk of you had that before if you had that right there notice i. I'm having had avoid award heartbeat. You don't have to drink like a shot you can drink it slowly but it's got it's got a lot of diesel fuel in. Be careful okay okay. More dangerous than any defense defaced. CARE serious. You're not going to be seventeen hours now. uh-huh explain to US explain to us if you don't mind Derek. The past you threw for a touchdown in the playoffs. God where does that rank in terms of simply best feelings you've ever felt on a football field like just the joy of that specific moment so funny funny because last year they gave me opportunity to throw a pass into resume. Like on a on the twenty five and I I missed terrible. And and then we had another one We are the Jaguars earlier this year and We got another one In a Red Zone A pass interference but I wanNA throw attention. I'm my man. I just can't compete a passing practice. Do so perfect so when they put one down by the goal line has gotta hit this past and it was his birthday on on a On that day we'll pay raise in the playoffs so whenever they call it. And I gotTA MAKE This I. I majored in practice. Just take your time and throw and and went on you know. They had to play fake. It came over the top and do it over to Corey but the funny thing about it was Marcus Marcus Mariota emotion. And nobody went when he was why open and the The film after the game. I'm like what was I doing. I was doing that Corey and making a perfect play. See Market there's wide open. I could've talked to him. He would score you so you an option to add options options zero during the corey market. The way his hands like he was in a crowd his hands up and he was wide open. But what were you thinking though. Were you saying to yourself on that goal line. I'd prefer you guys just handed to me. Yeah I can handle this or did you say no. I want to throw the football and the second question I got for you on that front is it actually called the Tibo play in your huddle or does it have a formal name. No yeah to to to to pass. I was like all right. Let's do it. Let's do I was ready and it's called the best and so you do it though but you prefer that if I tell you at that moment which would you prefer to do here just rounded in from a couple of yards out or do the pass which would you have chosen either one either one. I've got confidence that I can throw it and communist run and so I was having with either one Darren. WHO's the player? That's trucked you the most in your career that struck me. Yeah you know what you're talking about. Somebody hits you hard. You hit hard a lot of guys that the league that Kinda Hanlon right from the Texas he He can hit when you think of a guy if you can only only name one because a lot of people marvel at your strength as a running back. WHO's a guy it can be? Any position really surprised you with their strength. Oh S. so many guys choose from. There's so many guys that are strong. So I'M GONNA goes says are elite. That's a hard question I don't I don't have long. Let me ask another way. What's the most impressive thing that you do in a weight room? Give me. Ah Gimme one thing that you can do in a weight room that the other guys are like okay that's That's stronger than I imagined. All my thing my thing engaged right after the game lifted heart trying to get it right away right trying to get your loved one right after the game you know taking hits and things like that so I think that's a I think I would say that's the most thing I mean. I know a lot of guys do it. But you know for the price of random that you know you get much legs and you know your body that you know probably be difficult to work out right there game. Garrick Henry is here with us on radio. Row Getting Ready for the Super Bowl. Your coach Mike Variables. A little. Bit Crazy had you. These guys got on to win the Super Bowl. Do you actually think he would have cut off his penis. I mean until Lewa would do if he didn't do it Taylor. He's crazy right. Can you explain you either. He brought out the first thing he said when he said he's coming off it's going. Oh yeah so. What are you here on behalf of Derek and thank you for joining us by the way certainly having me? What are you here on behalf of? Oh I'm here on behalf of Gatorade Bolt Twenty four Ought to drink. They've created has electrolytes. It's antioxidants of the vitamins. Vitamin E. Vitamin C.. You know it's all to drink you had to rate is what you drink when you're competing when you're on the fill in a very creative what you drink. We ought to fill in. I drink both of our delicious multi for you know it's A. It's a great automobile drank because he knows what you put in your body off the field no to help perform at a high level. You know on the field. And that's why getting ready to create drink. Congratulations that that Coffee you had is a bit of cocaine okay. So you're in a meeting. I needed it. Thank y'all that's what I was looking for today. Thank you all so much talking a lot faster. It's funny though. I knew I needed booze. All right I have one final question for you. Had the biggest game of the year. Obviously coming up on Sunday the single most important thing the forty niners have to do to beat the thirty one thirty one. Oh yeah that's what I was thinking man. You GotTa beat demand. Who I'll tell you what I'm saying? Is it the most important thing to do. Yeah thirty one is run the ball. Yeah I agree with yes. I'm fine by the way kisser. Okay never mind. It's not important I are. You not worried about the way he has the question here. It looked like he struggled a little bit on the last word. Thank you take got very hard. The Nature Boy Ric flair sixteen times. Your world everywhere. Champion stugatz limousine riding. Can't St Louis and Waylon dealing jet funds son of a gun. Read the gentleman nature boy. Dan overtired Lebatardshow with his two guys on. ESPN radio the energy in this room just changed. It feels a bigger you thought the Super Bowl was big but it feels a little larger look at that. It is coaxed a smile onto the face of the never smiling. Roy Bellamy who was exhausted Mike Ryan his spirit has been lifted because the nature boy makes says happy and when we told Aaron Donald that the nature boy is going to be here when Aaron Donald got here Aaron Donald is more excited about meeting ric flair than ric flair is about meeting Aaron Donald even though Ric Flair is an enormous sports fan. So I don't mean that as it is and so we are happy to have you with us have have you. Have you already partaken of Miami in ways. That are fun night as you know. My wife is the ultimate styling emperor filing woman. Now she checked into the Saatchi Mansion. Oh Oh instead rick it's time to move vom Marriott enough over the years we're going to watch you man. Hold on a second. I need to hear about this. Because that's hard to get into and that ain't cheap in the land around here this week. You got the middle of everything for such imagine. It's the only home on the strip away. I realized that you said it's soup and I'll vouch for that. Even get it like. It's not in his real. There are a lot of people vying for that house this week. I don't know I can't even we. We have our own sweet. Did the nature boy. I know that Dan come up. uh-huh flare by the way this chef brought me food into the bar last night which they don't do uh no rick took shots yet and then and then two two miles a down Perry on one bhave. Would you have last night Wendy or Hito and two beers or is in a three thousand. Six hundred dollars Bart I was GONNA say one million dollars just thousands of water. Ah Two miles of water. I explain to us because a river. Nothing changes and they just called. ATM Big Time and by the way the NFL that we're not paying ah diverse and you know many years ago we throw a party over there. Sh- expert day party. Actually we did. I'm curious are you saying there by yourself can. Can you tell us a little bit about the living arrangements there because they're Wendy. Just were there for the money. It's phenomenal so have you have the whole whole thing to yourself because we have once we okay. There are ten suites okay. I'm going to I've I've learned to fly there tends tweets and it is very difficult. Probably get into and we when you put this all together about Two months ago but we dropped the Rick Flair drip on well the Rick flair drift. But I don't think I've ever been more impressed. I know how hard that place to get into the the amount of power in this city right now. How check into one of those suites? While they're they're not available now maybe just fourteen world championships when when you're in the world championship. They wanted to. Ah Careful no-one anyone taking your identity ever take and now I need your. Let me see here last nature boy. The tar yet does does the boss. I don't know I got it for free as a good questions. Questions to guide set an indelicate question. Right you don't ask a woman what she weighs. You don't ask hip hop star. What his jewelries were you? Let me ask this what you really don't. BCC He sees the Dan Le Batard show with this guy's on ESPN radio. So I recently told you that. I don't believe I've ever seen in in my life. A heavier puncher. Then this dude and I know I'm just a regular gas bag. What do I know but when I asked Teddy Atlas he said the same thing that that this guy is at the very top of the list in terms of e hits you and you're done more than anyone in the history of the sport deontay wilder versus Tyson fury Saturday February wtma twenty-second at the MGM? Grand Garden Arena in Las Vegas. It's a Joint Fox sports and ESPN PAY-PER-VIEW TICK- tickets are on sale now and can repurchased at MGM. GRAND DOT COM or A. X. S. DOT COM. So is he ready to goes to God's if you got him situated you have coffee. Do you have food form. What's the story? Whereas deontay wilder? He is sitting to our left. He is certainly ready to go. He is welcomed food a date. You want any coffee or can you get ready to go ahead. Dan He the jewelry that is hanging around. This man is a sizable all right well. Thank you Cameraman I I don't know what you were doing before that but I preach to your God. God wilder is an enormous not surprising that you hit harder than anyone ever looked at. Just look at you two. The you know has ever been in time. Because I thought I thought the onto when you were fighting Tyson fury that you might have been surprised a couple of times because you might have been like wait a minute. That usually not studes out when I connect that way when I hit them they go down. How often guys not go down when you think they're going down? It's not often. I'll tell you that and I've definitely was surprised that he was was getting up because of those circumstances when I hit guys you know I'm useless in You know they always do something weird and you know and and they never never give up and that's it. That's the end of the fight. But when I saw him Rosin from the dead. It was like I was like I was very surprised but inside God is like I was jumping for joy like this. You know what I'm saying because I will fight. The height was living up to the fight. And you always want to hide to live up to the fire and and It was a controversial decision and and he rising up gave people with some type of expectation to whisper for the second for the rematch. And he will now so you know you know he put him getting you know. Everyone sees me knocking down. That's the only thing really highlight to promote is to knock down senior rise up. It makes makes great com compensation you know especially for the sport of boxing and I can't wait till February twenty second two to how no unfinished business. Can you explain to us in your last fight because I always marvel at the science of what it is that you guys do if they think. You're just a brute. They're not understanding understanding. What you do for a living were you because you didn't dominate the early parts of that fight and I'm always expecting you to dominate every part of the fight? Were you you just setting him up. So that in that moment you would find your opening later in the fight the way that you did because it's just one right hand from U. N.'s. Things always alway. Well I beg to differ. I felt like I wanted to. I four rounds. You know myself you know a lot of things. He was doing pity Patton. You know he was missing some I. It was a more aggressive garage on more dramatic punches. So it's all about how a person was looking at it and accommodates compaign a pitcher and a narrative. Those that don't understand stand the sport of boxing and highest structure and they depend on certain people to say. Oh He's an expert in his so he should know dawn to make the person look at the situation definitely in the fight so with that being said made me forget the question man. I offended you. uh-huh sitting next to the bank was around that he lost the hey. I'm sorry that I've upset you please. I'm begging attorney dear. God wants once in a while your patients so that you can find wherever it is that the openings are when when was the last time that deontay wilder stepped into a fight with someone he thought was his equal any kind of fight. I'm talking about going back to your childhood when you're going up against and you're like this guy is as good. Ah this is. I am As well I can't go way back to childhood. You know it's too many days. What if I say a somewhat so when I was thinking that one name one name for sure that really POPs out that no other heavyweight division is not business name nor they're showing any type of for him and that's Louise Ortiz? You know they call me. They call on all but they don't want they want no smoke with them they don't WanNa get in. Because he's he's he's such an experienced fighter and he's a southpaw as well and he's he's very skillful woodall his intellect very higher than ring as well and I would say him hands all because of his experience he had over four hundred amateur spirits. Send you know him. Being a Cuban and having that strong amateur background in. That's when I knew I was in for fight. That the boxer during a fight a real dirty tactic it really gets. You overheated dirt attack. The overheated is is you know always him behind the head in a certain way that you can do it though. If referees on one side you can come on the other side and tap tap in a lot of guys put another old trick but you don't really see it. is they put the teen in the in the lower middle part of your neck. You know when you Clinton up you know 'cause guys try try to get away all the time with us down to get freaky stuff from China by men in the ring. When was the last time somebody tried to bite? That seems like a very unwise. I'm not talking about interesting on certain situations that I've seen in arena. Not so much that has been done to me. You know just talking about all the dirty tactics in general you know nothing for four as me. Nowhere nowhere has done any dirty tactics to me because everyone one always. They're in they're trying to defend that life even a risk trying to go on there and do make me even madder aggressive enough and they're trying to make me more aggressive than them already. Is You know they're trying to survive. And I understanding because I think about myself all the time and now like man I wanNa wonderfully myself because of the power well. When was the last time that you smell the fear on someone in the ring? The last time I fear on someone was Dominic Brazil that was another dramatic on route one round L.. Knock out that I fought. That was my well. My last fight before Luis Ortiz had in Brooklyn and I mentioned Dominic Brazil. We had some some type of beef outside of the ring with made it great for the for the fight you know we both were amped up. It was real beef of situation that happened and the fight. Another thing lived to the to the hype. Lived up to the fighting and even in a press conference in a Wayans in the way ends is what I really get to feel. Feel my opponent the staredown because you know how we always tell lies without you know what our words and they come out our mouth. Yeah we do is never lie. And when you looking into a man's I and you know you've got to get in the ring with him the the next day EH. You know you get the true colors that you do. You really believe in what you've been saying what you've been ten. If you Wayne Dan I feel sorry for stat on B. Because I looked so deep like I tried to go so deep in more than what the I could see. I'm so searching. You know that's what I do. I feel energy soul-searching. With is and they know that they made me go back into a moment in time you know but Yeah Yeah you're enjoying that moment in time out of that man because my mind is so open you know I tell people the mind. My mind is so big that spaceship can fit into it and sometime I use my imagination of my mind as virtual reality. That's why I tell people that I understand more than what they thanked. I I can't because when people tell me certain things I visualize it in our press play my head and I could actually see it happening learning and the proper assessment on certain things people say. I'm a great person to call for advice all right. Well we've got a big game coming up on Sunday the day and it. It begs the question the biggest question of the week. What's the single most important thing? The forty niners half to do to beat. Did you know to be on his. I really haven't been keeping up with the game lately Liane Been. I've been so busy traveled and with my career with my family And a lot of things so I haven't really had any opportunity to really catch any other games or whatever. That's the most knowledgeable answer we've gotten to that question honestly and the most honest one as well. Thank you for doing that. Dante wilder versus Tyson. Ice and fury. Saturday February twenty-second at the MGM. Grand Garden Arena in Las Vegas. It's a joint Fox boards and ESPN plus pay per view. Tickets are on sale now they they can be purchased at MGM GRAND DOT COM or A. X. S. dot com really. Enjoy your work sir you are a tribute to the menace of the heavyweight division. There have have not been a lot of people like you that create the fear that you do. Thank you for being on with Tom Anytime. Thank you guys. So much. Man and February twenty-second Babe Abe on Fox. ESPN pay view. Don't miss if you can't be in the Rena you know what to do. Click a baby and Larry flair always say. Hey Yeah yeah I gotta ask one question because so much respect and appreciate that shout out but I'm take any demand as you. Rick I gotTa tell you realize that it was used show humble I want to be as mouthpiece I WANNA be the bad guy. Could your home but I tell you that I have just. I know I've followed boxing When I was growing up my man with sunny listen You know the guy who could ever get a fight Beijing and all those guys. Nobody ran from Saint List and then along came Ali and of course he became all right. Heroes sure. You respect for them too but I oh I'm fascinated like You know of course. They hit the shots to the head of the ones that caused the most damage. But I actually. I've seen George Forman in his prime. He trained in Minneapolis where I grew up and he would hit the heavy Bay Harwood leave a dent. He would leave. He look swing in the chain. I mean he would hit that bag and I'm wondering those body shots steak man. I mean if you hit a guy in the solar plexus just yet it could take you could tap he goes to you. I mean I don't know how that's like. I'm watching the rope. Adult take a and how did Ali take all that and I mean so so much respect you and your level of condition and just the ultimate limit your so our ticket and what a what a gentleman so. I'm going to probably be at the fight. I've gotten no Tyson pretty well because he worked for the wwe a little bit so yeah and he's re looking forward to it and you know I like you I'd like I think this fight will live up to the hype everything I think it's GonNa it will. If you end up being is managed. Let's let's see. We don't get your way to humble and you got some cold lines to come on. We demand demand right. They is it fair to say that STU GODS isn't trying being very hard Stugatz does this is Liberta show with these two guys on. ESPN Radio Aaron. Were you aware that ric flair it has indeed been struck by lightning that he wasn't when he raised his hand on that. No Yeah so you weren't aware of that right. Yeah yeah it. It of my umbrellas and bounced off my umbrella remember. They used to have the skill tips or not old old. Remember that and killed the guy ten feet behind me and I'm writing. I wow wow back there frozen foreign rain I am embarrassed. I didn't people running out to save but I'm just looking at it like goes on Westbury's kicking debts. Ask for a long time Erin was telling US Aaron Donald. We'll talk about. I was making fun of the way that he likes pizza because he likes different kinds of pizza. But I gotTa admit it smells good. He brought it in here to throw it in my face and it does smell good. We'll talk to him about that in a second. But he's the most unbreakable dude in the entire league and he was so he was telling me that in his childhood. Rick you can tell the audience Aaron what you used to do because you I used to love the style of Ric flair to get mad because it's mcelhinney CESCO. ooh An ice not solve they got up to You're doing it. The Rick Flair way of just across like bouncing across the ring slapping him across the chest with the back but for us to hate me. Ah pittsburghers are great market for as it always has been and he told me he's been the off season Eric Degrade town great sports on just all all the way around and of course your career. I mean You know my favorite player a good friend and Lawrence Taylor. But you're you're you're coming in that conversation awesome in terms of unblocked human being. I actually believe that one year you should've won. MVP which only Lawrence has done. And then on page I guess played for the bank. How do you get how many sacks from that position when everybody's double teaming exactly? I mean then double teamed every time now to instill playing like that. So congratulations. Appreciate the honor to meet me you and all your success and you guys came again close at Tartu every year. Yeah found a way to get you. Will you got someone you tools on the team. Todd Gurley we love Georgia guy so much respect for time and you got your money. That's what I am and both got their money. You work hard you damn right man. No I'd say you guys for what you put yourself through. I mean people they we sit home and watch watch you think You know but every time you see behind us and more answer and you get that bump when the new thing comes around this TV. Talk Radio Air Nina Manager. Hey he'll just sit home home again. It's not long on your. I'm sure Erin that you're underpaid salary cap sport They can fix the prices. Fixed the prices when When someone's as good as you and there is no real precedent for it in the league? You probably are underpaid. Yeah well he proved last week at home hoping not commits a beach. Though we ain't got to go to camp what can you tell me about this pizza because the last time you came on here you said you don't like pizza with much of the Things that people expect on pizzas. So what do we have here. You know the just a piece of you know just cheese sauce and a banana peppers no soft. I don't know sauce free to taste last night. We're talking about. You seem like it was kind of weird so I needed. I needed you to take a by all right. So you're here on behalf of pizza as a hot here and you. Have you been giving media members of pizza throughout here Japan but I suppose Har What am I supposed. They just let him go. Just let them go let them go. Is this good. I can't dispute with no sauce. I gotta go in there because the Super Brady you guys can have some of this. Go ahead would you like some dogfight. Thank you okay as you gotta be careful with this. But it's like Nutty putty with me just more fat same same for me. Trust on that fight that old word call AIDS Aaron what eight. What percentage of time would you imagine? You could tell the audience that you're being double team if you had to assign a number to it. A percentage wjr Honestly I was not trying to be funny about ninety percent of the time you know you got a Lotta horse lap protection with the you know centering. Slant he's coming running now you hit you got the Gore tackle this choking down on before he blocked out to get an and you've got the. The Guard has oversight and heavy snow closing up to beat. You got a Gat Russia and I get that a lot so that's pretty much a triplet seen right there so it's tough man definitely. These teams made me work. You know they made me are in it. You know it comes with the territory. Though he is there is there a one and one name you can give us of a guy who actually does fairly decently you embarrassed professional. Who are trying to block you by themselves? Is there one guy where you're like all right. This guy can actually give me something of a challenge. I respect everybody. I think you know everybody's nobody's good but you know I am. I am on the pain I feel like I don't get enough one on ones. We gotta be like actually like okay. This guy's this guy that 'cause you know obviously have a game plan gotta gotTa stick to and They get a lot of help so not trying to be funny but you could slap protesting thing like this. I really don't get the opportunity to get a whole lot of one on one with gas consistently to the point where I can be like okay. Okay disguise disdise- disguise that so I'm respected. Everybody ought office just this pizzas really good. told you I mean it's really good old. You know no sauce. I can't do this but I'm telling you man favorite piece but my wife's honour third piece getting ever that's what that's what piece of has the NFL sponsor from as cargo last night. You Ain't Ballin all and yet Aaron judge. He looked good. Wow a the the the season that the rams had this season. I'm guessing that you probably just expected. I know it's hard and you mean no disrespect. But I'm guessing that you guys expected to just get back there again. It won't you hold yourself to a standard you know even having success you know and you know this this. This here wasn't our standard. You know we we know that and is one of them seasons where you know we. We just didn't play consistent news time we we looked at like ourselves we dominate this town. Where you know you got there and we lose about twenty when he won twenty eight points? I D that's just not good football and this lead you can't you gotta be consistent. You GotTa do week in week out no matter who you play no matter what the record is but we just didn't do you know and I saw join us players as coaches because we all want the end of the day and we just gotTa do better in trying to find ways to improve him and bring new talent and they can help. I think we're GONNA do that though. So has there been alignment and you just stead right that you may have a hard time getting the measurements because of how they blocked. How many guys they use? But has there been a guy where you're like okay. This is really strong. This dude is very physical I'm surprised by the amount of strength here or do you not run into that. I feel like I'm pretty strong through so no is the end. I don't run into very much of the battery. Would like to ask you something. I'm reading on here. What's got you charged up for the super bowl man? The ocean staring at the hands of the question. Is that a car battery trying to eat a piece of pizza go leads. To God's I got a better question for your the single most important thing the forty niners have to do to beat the keys. How did you get after the quarterback? You know they got. They got a great quarterback own that they're that they do do a lot of great things and you know it's now or is he got really we don't get ready you know he's consistently no matter if you lose the bar throwing exception you're gonNA come back. He's not gonNA find a way to keep making place one more one one more time before you go. Who's paying your why you're here? We're here with pizza. You know he said last two years you know So just to join it you know. Bring a couple of slices muffler pieces so you guys can trust you guys love it so look pretty good. I wish you would go with sauce but this is a delicious sort of like flat bread that I would have again a better. I like draws me and I'm GonNa follow him you can't okay. That's what it makes sense breaks. It's delicious thank you useless.

ESPN Kenny Wayne Dan BOOGER McFarland US Billy Gills football Stugatz Kenny Chesney Kenny G. Lorenzo MGM Progressive Insurance Dan What Derek Dan Lebatardshow Mike deontay wilder ADT
AMVETS Radio #73 | 8/10/18 | LIVE 2018 AMVETS National Convention

AMVETS Radio

2:30:26 hr | 2 years ago

AMVETS Radio #73 | 8/10/18 | LIVE 2018 AMVETS National Convention

"What's in store for your business this week at Staples doing business like a CEO while saving a CFO? Staples has all the supplies you need to run your business like a boss at prices that will make your bookkeeper smile. Now that is an achievement. Everything from markers and pens to twenty nine thousand nine desk, calendars, and right now at twelve pack of sharpy markers, and an eight pack of expo dry erase markers are only four ninety nine each at Staples. Where there's a whole lot in store. Ends one nine hundred nineteen in store only. Toast. Welcome to him bets radio at an pits radio were dedicated to providing who what where when and why of everything and that's nationwide for over fifty shows now ambitious radio not only educates. But tries to inspire all veterans serving veterans with interviews that are not only thought provoking but through humor decades of wisdom. Lots of great stories. And of course, information about ambulance. It's our goal of Amvest radio that after hearing this show you'll walk away different than you arrived. We thank you for taking the time to listen to 'em bets radio and for more information including upcoming shows or previous ones, visit Ambit radio dot com. Now, sit back and relax buckle up and get ready because the Amvest radio train is about to leave the station. Well, the thing and welcome to him that's radio show. Number seven seventy three today is August ten twenty eighteen and we are live twenty teen that's national invention and Alex water show. Oh, yes. We've been elections best right now. Usually, we'll get like a great candidates the next national commander and today, we're gonna have another great one got or hopefully, incoming new for vice commander at the national level. We've got our national executive director sitting with us. We talked with Sherman gillen's yesterday. I mean, I can pass for show. We started off with a bang by the pool that morning. This morning. Who did you bet? I mean head to relax are so pent up from just the energy first of all the one of the things that I've learned because this is our second year. I learned that this is a family, and I didn't realize well, it's probably one o'clock in the morning when I really rise loved I was. Everybody has just been so awesome. And then it's like you come to the convention, and you get all these people who throughout the year, you haven't seen, and it's just absolutely awesome. But one of the things that we need to before we get started is we've got to do our national anthem, please join me and run for a national anthem. New quick news poke stop me in the hall, and he's got great news perria what he said. Twenty twenty. Twenty twenty to the convention is going to be a New Orleans and what really excited about hormone. It's been good Gumbo. What an opportune working out, folks. Joining Stoff show today. Initial executive Joe smelly and seeing him as our second bites commander would now I know not yet second command or a friend of the oh, Jen Brown guys. Right. Welcome radio again second year at the convention. Today. I mean, it's been a pretty busy day today was resolutions and constitution in my lot change. And. Better part of the morning. Oh, we had a juniors breakfast fundraiser and. Just donate it. But I missed. To remissed because tomorrow morning from the same time Jews having the same pancake. Ten dollars. It's there. Twenty this morning. Not what. You see what they're doing? Goes to a good cause. I mean. Mazing share this and. Commanders hosted what did they stand like last month before and the thirty four juniors in their juniors. Now. So isn't they had seven year? No thirty four juniors in their post. So and they just started within the last couple of months. Just announced yesterday that post forty five they're going have seniors there as well. Sun today by the business, right? It's great. And they don't do. Very good job hitting our children. I'm patriotism where we come from where we're going as country do for that. In school civics classes. Preamble the constitution the constitution. So you know, we were about independence meant to be a citizen US and you'll see that in schools anymore. It's yeah. Warning about the decorations, and it's about the war that was about it. Washington really weren't what it means to be an American and what rights are for that. Whatever forefathers for true freedom sound nation comes in one of that's. Nine tenth graders trying to at least one St. and then California's sins. Loader? And that mazing four days. For these kids come out. That yesterday in the programs. You know, the kids go to freedom foundation. Now, I've never lived in a time where we were not in conflict. You know, whether I mean, they're all post nine babies. You don't know what it used to like when you didn't have to twenty layers security to get through the war. You know? The people listening in on phone. I was amazed at how much freedom they were about added security. Yeah. It's like kinda warns said, you know, once you give it up you're not gonna you're not getting. This long. Crave. It just dawned on me when I was there when I'm talking to these kids, they don't know. I mean, they only lived in conflict. So. It's a different world. When I was younger between me. Talk about. Yeah. Division, different ethnic backgrounds. I remember I grew up in new and so do you Joe? So I I know you probably remember visiting the city on eleven host on eleven. Those actually they are cab drivers most of them are from the Middle East. Hundreds of that. Well, nobody mind before nine eleven after nine eleven everybody was open arms about these taxi drivers about these day owners and to get out of the you calling them. The unions of racial slurs and just sad because these are people that would win your neighborhood for years. Nope. It's definitely division today. I mean there's other at the same time where cans. That was what we talked about yesterday or what color. No matter. What religion no matter what democratic society, you live to be a part of your in American because you're an American you have rights to be. The challenges when you have those who done the right thing in order to become an American and yet they're getting special treatment over veterans. They're getting over those sacrificed just makes no sense. And I know that just nationally you guys deal with all the political based only because. Right in the middle of controversy in regards political situation. Please stand things like that. But I national what does patriotism or Americanism educating our nation's deal with national fencer with veteran. Choose about why is now just came that less than thirty percent of today's youth the elbow to join because of various physical or legal issues things like that. So very small pool to recruit from to keep our her strong and without that patriots without understanding where they fit the big picture. We're going to face a draft or have a real crisis military's something. We we as an organization. To our children understand. Why are? It's like starting from the national convention. It's almost like you're in your year beginning. What are we here? Six months as far as the upcoming programs. Anything new that's going on that we can at least bring into sure so talk about my show her last several months he program. That's the big picture. This entire nations to Ganic there. There's crisis throughout the medical. The veterans community, but within throughout the entire nation of care and all different levels, mental health. And of course, the nation that's been at war for seventeen years. We have a lot of mental health needs. They're going on now. So we investing. Jin informing. Railing groups here, the really understanding what we're facing as a country. So that we can all address this coming year. The opportunity to speak with the new VA o- on when Wednesday when and. He wanted the room and asked everybody what what their usual with their issues with VA or things we would like to see done, and and which I found refreshing. And of course, we've talked about this on radio four, but my big passion is complementary medicine. Really need to be in a rated with the VA to help as the opioid crisis. You know to help people learn how to manage their pain as opposed to mask their paying and live. And I'm firm believer that the. Direct correlation with the suicide rate, and 'cause they're meant for chronic. I mean, acute pain, not chronic pain, chronic pain, you need to learn how to deal with pain. Like, I was very happy for brogues when JP had knee surgery. This is. Because he was in a lot of pain. But once over that started weaning, so bad and just taking a couple of Advil just to sleep, you know, he worked through the pain and through physical therapy. Doing other things he's you know, he's a whole medication. So they have their place. But when you're talking people that are long term pain used to be different than pills to help. Alleviate pain also comes down to monitoring stations because I take Gabar penny from nerve pain. And it's not. It's really not any other than you know, homes there. Well, now, it's a controlled substance team were using it to self detox. It helps with the seizures and some of the shakes that come on with detox from alcohol and drugs, and now people this off of people just use to sell detox. So I think we also get the medical community and managing patients and their means a little bit better. Sure. But it's it's a closer monitoring of everybody know. Yeah. And we have a problem with that. Because it's to healthcare professionals at appointment times are very short and. And lone time in between. Sometimes you don't have that relationship with your doctor, and it's. There's no band. To be a long-term to bring this around like getting women counselors V8. mobile counselors handle women's sex problem, you know, military sexual trauma that is basic, you know, on women. I mean, men men experts. There's not that many women. Women. Said there's not there's no being out there. It's gonna long process to fix it. Right. As opposed to just. You know, the whole party. We started in bits radio you were second vice cleaner now based upon the voting you can come in the first vice commander is there. Anybody running against you point? So as of this point pretty good possibly that. You're the first command one of the questions that I that you gave such a a really very profound answer. I Matt was 'cause I asked you, you know, as second vice commander admit to do this year, and you laid out some of that you wanted to do it's like we as commander poke yesterday, did you achieve everything you wanted these. We'll know almost if I little more time I'd like this. But I couldn't so same thing for you felt like you. You've achieved all that you wanted to you know, I don't think I ever I want. Hours in the day. And but I feel like being out there and. I'll say this. I think you know, they're the American Legion. And the disabled veterans both had their first female Manders. And I think they must tune ity. And we never really heard from them. They were not in the public eye so to speak. I mean, they were in Louis. The public lied, and and talking about women veterans or what veterans and making a stand. I think they missed a real opportunity. And between the radio. Youngstown? And I think I'm I know I'm not the only town 'cause I that many of. Friends with many of them. But it seems like. I'm the person for you know, whenever we just did the thing with the flag dispose. There was a cemetery that took up all the flags. Room and dumps. You know, somebody found it. It's very patriots Gary young sensor, they you know on. And we were very fortunate to the eagle scout choose that is project. The area for us in those flags, and you had a special firepit for like better term with the ingredients and the voice. Supposed to the flag, and we had several ceremonies and getting ready to do with the DA are in September. And we're about that one 'cause I've been collecting sexual. So it could be really long. But you know, it's just again, I think. An opportunity. To have these women front to show the country that? For two major major. I mean there too. Esso's for now for now. We're catching them up to my next question yet, I spice that means after three or as wet the. After he's. I think for those because I can't imagine you being quiet first of all. So that means then that as as a future national commander, you're going to spend this year. Being prepared prepped and and to get ready for this. And we talked about today. I I think as in veterans because it seems this conversation also any him. I think it was preparing the way for where ratio male the females. I think just with the nam alone. I think the female membership will. Get Lee increase when there is on the tender that's talking about women's issues. That's. As far as I my says you're for this year. What is the things you'd like to? This coming year. Focus is going to be gone tool is keeping people that we already have and engaging in the post. I. Nine into credentials is because I was I didn't I didn't know, you know. Give them a mission. Give give your members to do. There's always gonna be suited only wanna hang team bar. But there are people that really want to come in. And do something give the leeway to do object. You know, give them the right? Valerie. To take on a, you know, I'm always the. The I two of my plate. You wanna do a project you plan it? I'll. No, do it. All the time. I mean. Many members Austin. That we said benefits community better. Family planning review it. It sounds good to go. Oh. Is there anything that you wanted to discuss that unique coming in here that you needed to communicate? That we can get. Around because we're in break some news tonight think oh come on. But he's been good break news because people aren't gonna have time to download your podcast tomorrow Sunday when they're driving home. So we the organization face a really big. Permanent against by being for being inclusive veterans service organization out there, the IRS has different text as Ignatius most people know about a seat three which is he's lying for her cherry. Do our national service Dacian see. He's as well, which is three, but the veterans organization part the base of our organization is they team just. Texas, nick. So the IRS code says you have to be at least ninety percent people to receive tax deductible donations. We used to have that we did a membership. Oughta some years back and found that because we're so include that down to where actually less than seventy percents. So for less few years, we have not been able to receive tax deductible. People wanted to donate they do so their heart, but they weren't going to be able to receive that text benefit, and it's really important that is not the national level really important things of the grassroots level because they can't go to their local piggly-wiggly and ask for a bunch of hamburgers dogs to help. Welcome home. The national guards coming back because that company wants a tax people. That's so we've gone to the congress, and we actually have a Bill it's being dropped today. That it may not be able get through before this calendar year. And if it happens. During it'll be reintroduced next year mobile get through next year. But this thing he's four to be able to really bring some equity among veterans organs. So we're very I remember is gonna be really excited to hear about this tonight. Out there listening to you. You wanted to talk about or discusses me, I take the mind time taken five minutes of mile time. So he. I wanna say something where we have, gene. Jan I mean, you talked about. And their first national female. One of the things I think when I hear about there's a huge opportunity missed I mean from that opportunity missed like, wait this point. So to come out and say what we did. I well, they're they're out of office. We're in the business of giving the other organs. We don't miss. Is. Minute. He'll give me a little sneak peek into next year. Jen, the member soap shoes to make Janna for a women's command. Or it'll just be another another notch in the belt for this organization. Leading from the front is the first investors organization to have it woman member was in butts. And that's that's something we talk about 'cause it was the years ago. But it's really something to be proud of our members. Many comes to remember where one of the only other service organization that has militate eighty nine's as members. That we have. Some way just gonna say we had we had. Just think it's. Yes, you do. No, we talked about is the number, and that's members that we have a little it's not a real fake bat on how. 'cause you know, we've been hearing for two hundred fifty thousand members over two hundred thousand members will yesterday people more than that to seventy to eighty five to make three hundred was the most Angeles is okay. How many members would you say that? You know, anytime we make number number. We wanna build back stick with two hundred fifty thousand right now as we move into a new member of your in September. We will do internal numbers about it and be happy to come on the show or maybe our one of our ship vice commander, I. Looking that? We have the first two fifty. We have two fifty. And the only represent interest of all twenty million veterans. Say that there's a lot more than two hundred fifty I know people pass away, you know, maybe people quit. But the fact of the matter is Dan relation all cubs. You guys should to see not only within membership. You'll know at the convention, you'll know this more people, you'll notice more service hours, and there's there's so much in that know how much you've been around, but very return out here. Oh, it's. And that's something that we touched on yesterday. Too heavy is the community service hours stuff that and? Point that I truly kind of agreed on and Jan and enjoyed guilty opinion because you're are. And you're gonna be coming coming into memberships. What you think is more important? You think it's the amount of members or the quality of service we provide to veterans. It should be both. I mean 'cause with the more members that we have the more more veterans that we can serve so. Gets there. And they keep Capitol Hill back. It's the way so many members of organizations have and that does directly to your Lawrence. But it's not always just members number of active members and members were very active and come out with us in March. When we storm the hill, it'd be everyone comes out. The. The guard more we're going through the shakers. Yes. March madness. When we we stormed the hill. I know the Ohio river legislative guy from the F W known for years, and we always run into each other that week on the hill. But it seems like the only have like a few people, you know, we storm the hill with hundred peaceful, and we had every single office. You know, we make an effort to go to every office. Even if it's just you know information, so they know who we are. And if you can get one one on one. You're doing you know, you you an opportunity to get your message across. So I know Doug Brown works, very hard getting point. For the Ohio delegation, and we do a lot of one on ones. So unless there's a. But I know congressman Johnson never misses an opportunity to. So let's let's nationwide congressman very much notice and the they had set walking hallways. Did you guys for taking the time out of your schedule for you go? We do have to get a picture because we're doing that now. And folks, we are going to be back with them. But it's radio show. Number three. Don't go in the pace some bills, and we and we have got. Probably two of the interviews that we have. And I'm definitely looking forward to talking them. So folks, go anywhere. We'll be back with them. That's radio. If you're listening to him that's radio, you're already interested in building the organization, and we all know that the key to our continued growth is giving the Gulf war and later veterans involved. So I want to suggest that you go to communicate with them where they already are. That's right online. Your post needs a fresh current webpage and Facebook page to bring them their veterans web design is just who you need to help get the job done at veterans web design. Their mission is to help veterans service organizations, grow and prosper through the use of the internet to find out more. Visit WWW dot veterans web design dot com. Hopes were founded based on the principles of the American flag. The oaks are dedicated to our veterans and our community. We honor our veterans on Memorial Day and on Veterans Day throughout the year. We also support the boys and Girls Club and sponsored Christmas shopping trip to WalMart. So the kids can buy presents for themselves for their families. Thank you very much. And may God bless America for as long as there are veterans. They will never be forgotten. If you're interested in the elks, please go to Tennessee elks dot org for lodge near you. Very well. What are you gonna do? Well, come back to show number seventy three and we got to of rephrase again to make sure that we see 'em radio still lacks. That we always want to make sure that we have fun. And if you go back to national convention here. Guys lab. Guys, actually tower lex where you're like you guys always do like this. Yeah. That's basically what we again, everything we knew that. There was really no way to know. Right, folks. We have got miles with us. And of course, Jon with us, and John too have a podcast, call American podcast, and they were welcoming and so loving so inviting that we've had this year, we were gonna have you guys back on again to talk about what's been going on besides like, the both of you are in charge of the media and communications Fram. That's I'm sure that. There are some things on your list that you talk about some of those because otherwise we all have a really good time. And then everyone else gets. I thought that we're gonna do that came rabbit chasing. Well, I mean, you go down that ramp fun. You have. Later on today. There you go thanks for carving out. Some time kind of hop on today. And of course, being on the radio and listen to it every day. So so it's been a lot of fun. Listen to my voice every sign. I think you've been some enemies here. But I you wouldn't be are. Explain that. Understand. He he's the devil's advocate Fram. He's him the right to say, no, you're wrong. Here's the way. I in that water. No. I can't go anywhere that no. Do you think that when you channels people like that you'd think that listeners to hear the green hat? I think here I think they can here. Here's my thing. If I don't challenge them. I'm not getting on. It's just a yes, you know, trying to get a good feel good Pete. If you don't ask them, the actual questions, then you know, doing your job host because you're trying to get answers. You can't come up so solutions and wish you have bowls. Typically, basically vets radio rabbit hole. Seaworld. No, no. You gotta understand and ever since. He's been a closed here. Yours what I've noticed when he does that it actually the realism to the conversation. And then all of a sudden people start sharing their feelings, not politically. That's how we got the sexual assault yesterday. We opened up a conversation. Regards reporting that the only if you go back. The only reason why number sation even opened up was the mouth over here. He says that. And all of a sudden going audience here, people don't realize and folks just a, you know, Mba's Mba's radio when we do a live show anybody can contribute. So we have some chair set up and yesterday Terry got up and walked over and sat down and talk. And I mean that that's all about now. So John, I'm when your will you say. Listeners. I'm not actually booked today miles books. So and I was like odds kumail do the show, and I'm just taking backing I wanted to know end but hold on. I'm more like weasel. You have to understand that not a lot of people know, I was given whom I guess that's the one that has happened. You know, how much wonderful thing that is your how doing basically, I guess that that team from the top guys. Thinking Nita made that last year I helped would tell like arranging things you're listening on eighty commander poke said to me, I'll make sure you have all the guests you need. And then all of a sudden next thing. I know I get an Email from Anita two pages death. I said where are we gonna fit off and we really into over. Well, a couple of the new things that we have going on at headquarters have a biweekly newsletter. That's going out just being 'em. All the information they could want. They can Email me at M I G S at ambit- dot org. Tests be put it on list as we kind of finalized for them to to enter themselves. We've also got the podcast the the ADP. Like sharing a lot of that. Same information. And yells at the same time. They can do that as well. Really trying to over saturate. How much info we give back to and that's how transparent we are. We feel better kinda oversee and under such we wanna make sure that you're hearing from us the kind of have to be spent where you know, profit, right? Just because you're nonprofit doesn't transparent laws. Nope. But the. The disclosure. Yeah. But but but there's also a very politically. Correct medicos. Oh, it's not only just giving you an its nationals do or what infants nationals. But why we're doing it as well as the reason behind it? So that you feel included in the organization as you will. I mean, here's my thing though. I don't know. Okay. Suwon miles. I kind of sweat. It wasn't ten. Cassar hurting just watching him move. It's just the Florida weather. I don't know. I have seen grades movements. You know from figures eaters, it was it was. Magnificent. I don't know how does it in skinny jeans? I know right. I I did the skinny jeans little. Okay. They're making a flexible jewels. Yeah. Spandex? No. Yeah. Sor- in principle. Yeah. He's really one way go on his Facebook page way with. I mean, really because let's just say I mean, we're on the right say looking guy. I mean, he's got a six pack and everything then he shows on. Really all about teach about the. Thing you can agree on this. Who's the good friend guy who natural party or guys the tag? I mean, I'm just saying you imagine the six pack is for your community. Yeah. I do. Oh, yeah. I got this this for others. See? Maintain my Zeke. So I can keep being mistaken for Joe and the whole convention having a while time at least. And you it's me too. Look, right. And then and then. But it's only for me. But I think it's awkward for other people when I have to tell them because the executive director, right? Business the V. Well, i'm. Not would you like I can't leave people that they just leave the TV because it's not me, right? Do you have anything little quick? Just new updates anything. Yeah. So just up the phone with Sports Illustrated, but not. Yeah. You something. I. No, not really much. That's why. No. Does every well, we'll just do the cleanser. I didn't wanna be suit. Yeah. You thought you weren't going to get content on his version of ambitious radio. New listen, I can't see to the basis week nowadays. No, like just. Beating the closest the boat. Commission. I got alligators around the boat, and they're all pretty dang close. So right now, I mean, I'm thinking about such do. I haven't ready for the seasoning is. Powerpoint nation. Good to go is the av in the room to go. And I can't really think much past right? So my whole culminates very very Frank. We're gonna walk the hill program for building that up to. So anyone that has gotten all the commission for the hill program? You can find it, and it's not worth slash that. Dash he'll. I have to ask this. 'cause I'm curious your communications or miles your social media special editor. Heating and bringing this up only like hand washing. Yeah. Okay. Like, you know, some people don't like Email emails. Don't look if the Imos look like bam advertise, whatever you golf newsletter char best to make sure it looks like something that is informative presentable in appealing to the people. This ties to because you know, after you know, I it's not just that. But also offer to barter with different organizations allows us to give services to our members will win right? Yeah. Then we're definitely going to do it. But some people just wanting showing up in their inbox at all hit us back with. Hey yourself, right. The artful ones are my favorite the creative ones creative one like some time on that. Hey, they thought it overnight. Like, they did the. Effing Email one thing. Someone cracks their entire about how they are used got sit back and just read that what people also realize, and then you just those that that we get, you know, say right now if you switch fun. Fifty. Think of you the newsletter. So maybe when you get those kind of really see what the ad is in there. There's a USAA one USA. It's always great with the military family and in veterans and as far as benefits and things that they can save on them too. So it's not really that. We have to spew out. It's. Yeah. Exactly. It was had to do the partners. The benefits are members. But we I'm waiting for some podcast hate mail. I don't believe any yet. I was just gonna. It's. I was just gonna you know. Do right now to generate some I know. Tennessee State convince when I I had to present him go on with the whole dog pony show. I I said how many times you get an opportunity to rip your clothes? Blow sixty and I Jack it all and I took my shirt off. And I had a Trump twenty twenty shirt. Yeah. That's gonna get heat meal. Four two hundred got upset. Now, I understand if you're gonna fan fine. So, but we have not radio has not many hate mail or anyone rude to us. Keep them politics is probably the best. Yeah. That we have that. Yes. That's. Sometimes hard though, because it's talking about an issue is that piggybacks for takes you into it. And that's that's one thing that we did. Got hate mail. Was there was some people that were offended by our foam show because it was eighty six. Oh, really? Sexual trauma. Right. No advocating, of course, it was again. Hey, people didn't like our military sexual trauma show. I'm like where would you be a little bit more clear. Ravens. Nor do I. It's tough, and it's kind of uncomfortable to sit through, but you know, again, it's. I agree with him. Misted all so when I opened up a whole different conversation. The all the sudden I said that exists and she goes, yeah. For men and women. Are you kidding me? And all of a sudden we started talking about it. And and then we turned into two after that that I didn't even know wasn't issues. So again that was where you're saying. Like, there was a lot of people ended on how disturbing some of the story where open about it wasn't any. No one gave me. Disgusting details, and and we're just spectacle. It was just people that goes through trauma. And all of a sudden they're hearing on the radio who talk about what they went through one lady did mail me and said, I have not talked about a situation. That's happened. I've ignored it. But starting right now, I'm not going to be quiet about it anymore. I'm gonna and I'm gonna talk. There's a force. That was wonderful that will for hurt. It was cetera free. We could change one life with some of these topics that if we get the change within people's do something all not talking about it. I mean is. Show congress members who. The military Joseph courts military. Yeah. Veterans quits for this. Working on an amendment. Oh, not Justice improve their neck, which Tia which takes how of the chain of command and puts in place of the advocate post. Have you lost to just the uniform? Yeah. Yeah. And we all wanna that there where it actually registered sex offenders once being invested in the military. Yeah. That's actually issue. If you know a lot of these people we've Miller straight with that registration is as as sexual offenders. They will commit like sexual assault and those and they'll. Very without registries Newsline. Oh, yes. Terry. Really? How can you hear my face? Like, I forget, it's radio. What we have placed people. Yeah. Well, anything one thing to that about contractors? You remember when we did please down earlier this year? Yeah. Razi thing about that was not the number of people send us like eight male for like nail the wrong reasons. Right. Like there they misunderstood what we were about. But they hated it. Because they thought it was one thing was another. Yeah. The creepiest thing was when people would send us Email supporting us for f-foreign like. Yeah. See a point four little run away. Live in tennis. Landlessness spent thirteen years in Chicago, you trying to say that people don't understand big words. I'm sorry. The word is longer than most city names. So. Say. What did you say you're saying just second go? No. I said, no we're talking about people riding our wave. Oh, yes. Yeah. We support you here. Just those that we're saying the most detestable thing when Regis get like, what was the most agree. Just wanted to. Oh, gosh. I can't remember any specific words quarter. It's probably on Twitter Twitter's. And. But it was it was something like somebody project their own racism onto our caused and thought we were anti Catholic because camper Nick was a minority. Right. So they're like spring time standing up, you know, it was just understood it would totally misunderstood. So we got some mail during that that I think was probably the most notable. It wasn't the Hayes mail wasn't nearly as disturbing as some of the. Getting lose. I hate to cut the interview short half two guys. Thank you so much. You're taking the time miles. You have been such a blessing Tamba radio. Thank you for money done. Lots offered. When I'm not here to distract after. There's no doubt very actually. So forty five for about pass now to go to the career center team. Okay. I know we're gonna carry a little while miles if it's okay with I'd like to inter invite you to take my sees co host during that time frame. Are you vailable shoes to fill? Oh, well, no. Are you you'll bring such breath of fresh air to this show, though? It's actually. When I first went show. Other. I mean, take two. Podcast yet change it up. Yeah. That'd be great. All right, folks. Don't go where we're gonna be right back with them, but radio show, number seventy three. In the meantime, we're gonna go ahead and pay some bills and this wonderful snippet about are under full American flag. Ladies and gentlemen. I am the flag of the United States of America. My name is old glory look up and see me I was born on June fourteenth seventeen seventy seven with just thirteen stars. And stripes, representing our first thirteen colonies, I stand for truth, honor and freedom. I help remind Americans of our history and our sacrifice. I have led our troops in every war. Gettysburg the trenches of France and the beaches of Normandy Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan and scores of distant lands long forgotten. I remember because I was there during World War Two. I was raised over mouser or by five marines and a navy Corman on February twenty third nineteen forty five three of the six men who raised me that day, so sleep blocked and strength. Paid the ultimate sacrifice during the battle of Iwo Jima to more than a decade later. I was in space with astronaut Neil Armstrong when he was the first human to walk on the moon, July. Twentieth. Nineteen sixty nine over five hundred million people watching us on TV heard him say that's one small step for man one giant leap for mankind. As the silent witness to all of America's worst and finest dollars. I enjoy nothing more than to wave and deep blue peacetime sky. But my finest hour comes when I fly at half-mast to honor, our heroes, my most difficult days, or when I lie in the trembling arms of grieving mother at the graveside of fallen son or daughter. I remain a beacon for freedom people travel from every corner of the world for a chance at a better life here in the United States. I have been burned worn and trim. Pulled on streets of countries. We helps that free. I was raised again on September eleven two thousand one at ground zero after the attack on New York City. I am here tonight with you, and our brave men and women in combat at this very proud of who you are. And who we are together honor our heroes as I have honoured. My name is glory glory is brought to you by the US military all stars. For more information about the Laurie. Please Goto US military all stars dot com. All right, folks. We'll come back to ambush radio show, number seventy three. I'm gonna this section. The ladies section because we have three wonderful ladies here who worked extremely hard on a lot of pretty important things that we've been talking about yesterday your video on Facebook. And I shared it on the radio because again, anytime anybody does anything to talk about him. That's my job is always been to to share it to push it. Right. Sure. That it gets out because if we don't to our horns where never been grow to be organization that I know him can be we have got the national career Centerman c r Robinson national programs director Carla lay some and chief development officer team currently who offended earlier 'cause I did tell her that we had one of the funniest show. We did we. But as you need total disorder that takes these two, and it's it is nice to get away from normal conversation. Just not talk about the important things, which I'm talking about what little important thing. But anyway, let's go ahead. Proceed four houses or centers situation showing? I know you've got there's a lot of changes things going, certainly. So we are obviously, you know, open new career sinners, and as a matter of fact, I'm excited about joining that everybody five for our careers. But as you know, this is obviously issue that a lot of veterans are having their place. So we're making connections in our partnerships with these employers, so that we can give them closer to these opened opportunities, and your if you may I mean, we saw the post commend couple of days ago about the trains that will be eligible for some of these veterans coming. The education opportunities and training up as for the come through your second. You talk a little bit about that. Yeah. Sure. So actually cold call doing down Ming. It's three hundred seventy five thousand dollars to help our veterans place five hundred year. But what we are is that a lot of our best. Best friends are tired at a lot of these these opportunities. They're getting close to these open opportunities, but many of them are still again under employees. So with that said, we kinda like this opportunity. So that we can provide licensor occasions that true. So a lot of the career that we are opening where giving them this opportunity that any vet that comes to the door. If they need to certifications pay for a lot of people don't understand or know that. When it comes to those who you guys have placed have you been getting testimonials can things 'cause and and I wanted to invite you know, again in the future time to bring some of them on to talk about their experiences. What were some of the past three years if see the salary increase, so where we were about like thirty five thousand dollars a year average for a lot of our vets it has as this year to fifty two thousand so. Yes, certainly, that's that's the difference between, you know, just breaking even or your mom and. Right. And you know, the comfortably without worry. Right. Absolutely. Yeah. And so a lot to to go with that. I don't to that is that we've partnered with the love these institutions to try to get into these Archies like knew how we've kind of a partnership, so where veteran will normally have to pay seven thousand dollars. We kind of worked out a deal. So that they're paying something that the game getting this program. What are some of the biggest misconceptions that people have about the program? In terms of the Christmas sells for all the way across the board because you know. Tell you just on people's opinion radio people who don't even listen to the show. We'll criticize it. How can you criticize something you never listened to? So sure there's people say oh the career center letter. How do you what's, you know, a lot of kinda they get signed up to a lot of the programs and a lot of seeing that when nobody's gonna call me back or no one is gonna help me or the we're kinda equivalent to someone they realize wants to actually come to our programs that we have curric- coaches that are following that. So we aren't just I'm getting connected to these employers. So that could say, hey, we have veterans system that if you're interested in them, they're here, we're saying, listen won't even provide him put you in front of our veterans, unless we know that you have an opportunity unless you know, you leave your contact information with us when you can upload your boys unless we have a point type. So that we can get our veterans tease reliable. Yeah. And I think that's what things doing veterans. They dropped the ball with these reasons, Asians and one thing that I've noticed simple the career center. Here's they'll see a career center with inside and other organization, which doesn't help I've seen that operation Sandown, as you know, the US buildings, and that's the thing is somebody's vets don't know about him vets will do they'll Google, you know, cruise USO, and then I got wanted to imbed skiers maybe they're not here anymore. So how or they'll do not take him to operation stand down. And it's like, well, it's operate your stand down. Maybe it's not hearing for. And I mean, how can you really this is just a question. How can you really stand organization when you're standing underneath another? Sense. How can you differentiate yourself when inside another? I'm gonna take that one. This is Carla. Anyway, the one thing I can say that Sierra has done. Well, their coaches is getting a brand we have a brand with the call duty and down that and because of it they're able to get the word out of who they are being recognized as their own entity apart, but but separate from its yeah. And also away those other companies because I I'm fading partnerships and collaborations, and so I know when our post are, you know, starting these Christner's a lot of this may not have all the resources, it has been a big hill with some of the companies will because a lot of it. They do come to some do come to our homeless. And so they have those opportunities. I wo- that would give them house and then get the job. And then now they have. Another resource, which is where now the license is certified and whatever they're going into. And now, they get these harpies. It's not my fear was saying it's not just about getting a job. We help them in other that, and it's helping them with other resources a veteran that calls it says they're homeless we reach out to other organizations and even with their, and that's where if they're in Tennessee, we reach out to the department of Tennessee to see they have any resources of any in that area where they can help that individual veterans. So we help out as much as we can. It's not just helping the job looking for resume, but how another well. And I'm gonna touch on the game. Because that's my passion payer. You know, this everybody knows that homeless veterans who my passion, Tennessee is still tied for the U S for having the largest almost veteran popular. Still. Doing where if they if you're listening, you're in Tennessee, definitely up the phone talk to congressman talked to you. See what you can do to help change that. 'cause new veteran should be sleeping on on the streets. Veterans handle for food. Better in the is here. And they need to get in contact with you in order for you to help them change that what's best for them to do that they connect with me by no see invest or or call personally at three zero one three nine five seven five to nine one more time to go on the pencils, sir. Three one three nine five five to nine is my cell phone. My Email addresses see Robinson at imbed style. Or that's bold move number over the radio. It's it. It's bold. What about the is? They're working. They get more information about the program, actually, go to 'em, and that's dot org. And they can kind of go to if they're seeking employment or to implement section and from there. They can kind of contact with incorrect coach, but they will be assigned personal career coach. No christine. I have waited. The your see your. Or not necessarily be the as your mind because there's there's something I've been wanting to ask you that. I think your answer will help stand kind of on the back end the way that's works for a very specific task. And it's a task that I know first of all that with the NFL stating that wasn't part of the plan original that was kind of add on. But as as as as the. If brand service. Title, but to be responsible for a brand. Is extremely it's stressful because you have to rely on all the other forms of communication take place and to make sure that the because you know, you you wanna help you've been hired to help deliver message. But you have all this other messaging going on how do you balance that especially I mean, MS radio is part of it? So and everything we say in. Everything. Everything sucks. What we do. It's it's been a challenge. Because again, we don't we don't have program set months in advance, whatever whatever the Lord brings us. What is what we did? We live on how. How do you find not Lucy mind to all of this? Well, I've only been here since real time. I might lose it. Long time. It is a long time. And there's so much to be. There has been. There have been some silence and across communication has not necessarily been our strong suit. That's changed since April when I started, and it's really important in my eyes. It's really important to make sure that there is the same message. But the bottom line is the brand and the mission. Now the way that you that there as a career center might look different than the way we out there for membership. But at the end of the day, the the the foundation is about supporting veterans and everybody has a passion. And if someone says something that is off Mark, then we just have a conversation. Then okay. How how can we make sure that that's happening? Shows mass very I mean. We're not sponsored at this point but nationals we don't receive funding from them. But we because that we are branding bets. And Christina wanna ask what is your opinion of invest reading representing that brand? And what we are conversations. Earlier tolls. No one is going on. I couldn't stop changing it was going, and I'm like no other where who's sitting in the room right now. Royd order and work completely not talking about him vets. Hello. But you have the freedom on radio talk about whatever it is that you wanna talk about it might not be important to the one. But I can absolutely guarantee you there that is crazy Joe. So. To your question. I think you are brand you you are opposed member. You are an advocate for the organization both bars. So I know that you are wearing the hat literally wearing the hat, and yes, you might go off off target a little bit. But you always come back, and you always keep the brand in the forefront of and so for that. We're grateful. Are you? Sure, you're we've had a wonderful conversation last time about future van bets Bill, and it's we've tried to get the band or to release information. And he said, I will be keeping you. You say he said, he said abreast. No. But but he said two way that it was totally a commander poke thing he said, he said something to the. Mission or something like that. He says when the institution is available. I will make sure let you know. And I'm like. It's hard. It's hard, and we are seventy four years into this. We're also almost a year into this their major changes happening within the organization. It starts with the please stand. Then when yields came on board of the program, we start looking at our messaging improvement. All the legislation that that were involved in. You said this to the faith and all continue if you look at six months from now look at the end of the look at next year when you're here for the convention. We are going to be very different organization. He now in the forefront of of the VSO's when it comes to help. Nobody can touch in the BS space. We we are hitting on also. And it's really important that the the corporate community knows that you know, it's really just known on my face. In the middle. Because. That could've but. Don't know. Ultimately when we talked on the phone, this is why we don't do this. I we want put we want people to say can you go direction. Can you this one of the things we wanna do in the few? I would get a phone call. That says we have an idea. Okay. What is that? Because if if it's relating veterans need, I'm all for it. I mean could take the show will don't we run a show so weak we could do five days a week, we have content. If I've got to chase everybody there, then happened. So I mean, they have all the guests. Come to me like this. While talk about blood talk about not having to spend six hours before this combat. That I spend. In coordinate. The fact that that national reach out through Sabrina and Anita. Was a huge weight off my shoulders because I didn't know what I was going to do because you guys have needs an important things that takes place, and then how do we squeeze in two hours each day? Where do we put it this not going to mess with schedule your skin? Why you come to the convention that you know, we don't if we don't make room for this. That we don't have we have to be the advocates for self. We are advocates for our vers o the veteran community, but we have to be foremost advocate for Amvest. And so we need to make the time to have the conversations we Garlan I'm working earlier about I'm looking to start a family, call with those fundraising. And and how can I help you within community not only funds to support what you're doing? But also about what we're doing is MS -ation you need to the time for the I'll make it whenever today to hit night. I'll make it at eight o'clock at night. Our message out there because we don't do it. No is gonna do. Well, I actually wanna talk about that. There's two two topics there that really. Insurance about this actually had a veteran from Fort Campbell with talking he wears consistently shirts. That's like only. Sure, he owns. I'm sorry. I'm like style Tien drug stuff like that has consistently to only shirts he ever wears. Me. But, you know, each their own popular space was in the veterans community and trimming yesterday, why isn't that's capitol on that? But we see shirts partner organizations like this to further the brand maybe. Partner with them get a little bit of you know, ten percent of every shirt goes to helping service where and why ause insurance that talked to show. What chapter the bag because I think it was all conversations infants wasn't really four it when he tried presenting like your years ago, and I can't see why we wouldn't be four something along those lines as a person who's trying to in the brain. What is your thoughts on something? Like that. I think if it's the right company, Dan. Then the conversation can be had if we don't want to dilute our brand was another win another brand. I mean, we we are forced to be reckoned with and the embassy brand is a very strong, and and we don't just who onto anybody who's not going to take it and respect it. It's actually for two certainly we will entertain. And but what I what I don't want to nickel and dime people to death. I think if we're put our brands. The ground running and his. But if that's something that we. Give me the name number. And I'll see what I to make you talk. If I make this happen. The other thing is something that you're wearing that was a boost or invention. Now, it's a little bracelet. And we go and face five. Right. There's. For them. So the national Pearl memorial museum that good luck. I'm sure. It was. Yeah. And so the civic parks reports. And one thing that they're doing currently is helping soaring some of the national parks in the Pearl Harbor air of such as the USS Arizona memorial or girl harbor MLS. And what you're wearing. Now is a fundraiser. They're doing to help rebuild one of the harks. They're doing do you remember much about that on it? Or is it something you contributed? I I like the bracelet. So I wanted to it, and it is hard to have that as an organization we are passionate about anything that has to do with military community the veteran community, but I think that it it is not to be disrespectful. I'm we have a number of our own programs that that we really need to support. We we need to talk about him push. And I've talked to Haley who is our he manages stores. And so he he's not when I say, but we're more than restored. And when I say. And I was excited telling everybody it's gonna work for. Oh, yeah. I donate to you. You do have Bula. Yeah. I take my bag and put it out and leave it for the tries to come by and pick up my stuff. We are more than a thrift store. Program. We are Americans. We are that NFO's national service officer program, we are more than a thrift store, and and the message when my talk about brand that's message that needs to get out that we are more than that. We are the sons we the lady three we are. We are all that and more. They're testing every piece of veteran community in some way, shape or form and people need that people need to be part of in some way. Guess who's going to be on the show waiter after four the one of Lay's ever hear from the Pacific parts? Good memorial music. Talk about the great. They're doing in the area. Yeah. A low hot to them. They lovely women and raising. They can tell you much more doing than what I wanted to point that you were wearing your sports Greek call, thank you. But poor Carla has not really had much to say here. I love Carla by the way. Time-wise world, right because I'm supposed to have more of Al she's probably caught up in the meetings. So and I'm still waiting for Kelly McFarlane, and Laura and they're supposed to be here. But they're not here yet. So we're good. To put up with my reports and hounding or. Hey, what can we improve our Rams, right? Then I throw right? No, you probably didn't hear yesterday show. But let me just bring something up because I wanna start a conversation that came on reporting. We had an Ambit memory yesterday publicly announced that he does reporting because he his computers. Well, we have do we have something for him. They if they don't have a computer, we is they can get someone I can even mail them of paper. Worked. Peter. Report sent to that then they can copy of it. They can do the report. Say forty hours a week. He was on the table forty hours a week on the table. No mileage, no expenses thing. He's do it for you affording for our you'd think is probably twenty miles per hour. Yeah. So I mean, I mean having what it and I had Lindsey minds this. She's awesome. One of the to put it in this. I have no problem. The issue is and this is one of begs first things he wants to work on is he wants to get reporting that that's the conversation. And I we need to have this conversation on the show because there are a lot of people that are not reporting what they're doing and things that they working very closely with their programs ministration the person behind the scenes that originally created years ago Sierra. Do the career center reporting. So we can try the veterans in who were working with and get our numbers the backing up to the program. I've been back looking at it to see simple. There's a lot when a lot of the commanders or the. There are a lot of. So we're looking at seven, and we should have this complete in the next months where time the scenes myself will be able to remove those host. That's one thing. We're doing right now when there's the yours, and the sense that reports it doesn't give them a category of where they can get our category and shouldn't be they should be able to look, you know, to do reports. Like, the ambulance do is doing America's over how they can do. They can put in there that they've done Americanism program, and they can still be separate to join their own reports, but we can still run them all together. So we're working slowly and any suggestions that anyone has please bring into the forefront being seen. I mean, that's how I learned about the inactive post, you know, someone came to me and said every time the let me look into it and see what we can do. So. That's what I try to do. I mean, I I don't have a problem that I I encourage any of my members to reach out to lengthier myself because anything questions that they have, you know, we're happy to answer them Email or or call us. I mean, that's what they're for. Just to jump in and take something quickly about that. The fact that someone is not reporting ultimately impacts the money that we could bring in to support the programs because if I'm going out, and I'm talking to company ABC about why they should get involved with ambient and all the great work. We do they went numbers. I'm they're going to do the kindness of their heart. Yes. But because support veterans, but they also company they think. Right. So we need to be able to court, and they hear hear the people that you can reach state or gender or age, whatever they. We need to have numbers because some of them may be more passionate about homeless veterans some of them, maybe more passion. And what percentage of that community service is towards that group the minority in that community service premium? Why would they is that their passion? Why would they contribute? If that's they might know. That reporting doing always we're lacking nationals. Yeah. On what Cristine said a lot of it is again win you're opposed and someone's interested in in becoming a member. What do you do what do you do? Oh, and and they're not writing down and history because it also gives future leaders within the post informational what was done prior. So that win. And again that report is they're having to go for the legislators. Hey, this is what we do in our community to help our since this is what we do in our community our community, but they've been hurricanes. How I was amazed at the department's Texas Florida and other were numerous other than. Exactly Tennessee that stepped up to help our friends, and that's important because that is expensive service and that veteran, and I mean, it's just you know, I can I'm so passionate about it. I lose my train. But you know, one of the things also that I started last year is trying to move forward with bringing women to the to the front because we have women veterans leadership. We have women veterans throughout our organization and some of them have some stellar ideas. And again, I'm women veterans. So I take that personally. I want to see more services out there for women veterans, and the fact that you had military sexual trauma. That's amazing because that is is one of the issues that I have seen up time and time again that is. Definitely import younger staying be sensitive to be able to help women and then. You worry, you know. Two years, you won't even writing. The. That's gonna come into this station and impact. I totally get that. Yeah. I cannot wait for the day. The term. Is over because and and I mean have this any organization in any company you have quick? Even female, six zip. Oh, yeah. They do. I mean, don't ever something bad about Zillur. If you do look out man, you get it going to mean because you are tough. And and and that's fine. They're one, and I didn't know it was going to have free at the same time. So it's really worked out perfectly yesterday. The reason why could one PSA was I didn't have enough to. That's the problem. Why don't I have something about the career center? Why don't I have something down? Downloaded ones that are on the website one is to the CD DVD program. That's gone for years. Oh, I can give you things. You will have one by next to Email address. The most frustrating part that I've had this last year is getting him. But it's to talk about themselves. You have a post your the post you have events coming on. Right. Talk about. It's free cola phone, number, so folding pajamas. I don't care. Just call talk about it. You said you cared yesterday. When I said when I do some of the shows you. Differently. They went to him. So well. We we will have. He is a four you moving forward. You guys. Sure. Yeah. They. It's not a full-fledged studio, but make it work because we have. About. I mean never. I mean, I have advertising spots that companies won't even take advantage over for dollars. Spot can't get that anywhere. So we're more than two whatever, you communicate ambush radio is is in. So just. We're going to. Now, do you know how many shows I've had where I've heard that. Challenge. Send it to me. Please. And all put it on no issue that at all and the other topics that we haven't talked about. Again, I still have to we. We actually have a surprising that showed up that we ran into the husband swing. I didn't even know who she was. I'm like, what is she doing here, and there's actually dressed I didn't even know this. She again. Because it's kind of you in picture ghosts. Looking like the like a wonderful down. We had an ad that skirl even know what that meant. Go ahead. Going to say there's a compliment in there somewhere. If I know. I know. So when I'm so excited about the why she's here. I I mean, if why would she unless there's a reason there's got to be kata the compliment somewhere. Somewhere. She's the only tell you. I have no idea. What was is? Is there any coming? Like, what what I love the national is they started to heal program. And they called me and said we want to do is show specific he'll program plead leave right crate, they brought clinical special it was powerful. And then they took the message and took it and push and did it. And and I mean it went out. Tell you from from that show from our first town hall that you were that you attended Ellison than we had some whole here at the convention center at the convention the convention center, we are looking at Hieaux we are looking at hosting one in New Hampshire. You're looking at hosting one in Florida. We're looking at hosting Indiana and believe in your crowd, pulling California. When they're within the next six six months, that means that means within six months, I expect somebody on who's gonna talk dates so we can push it because we have over. Oh, when I left the report we had forty two out of fifty states. Listen to the show. I don't what's going on Utah. But maybe the mountains are willing to do. But the fact is is all these stays listen to the show. They're very active and once you have the date set if you send Email out copy me on on. So like that. And then we can all reply back and say great will. Will they would you like to book, and the we'll schedule it then because I can always get you in a spot. I can always do fifteen minute window, even if talking about whatever we're talking about. It's a full show. I'll open up spot that I can place to at least spend ten fifteen minutes talking about whatever it is. I mean, it really just shocks me. We ever ever ever. I'm me ulcers. You don't right now? Very goals for good choices because. Pools. You gotta pull her suppose. How do I really I really love Audis able to really connect and engage. I'm gonna be honest. It was voice bow sweet on the second floor when you have people. Well done. Side of that. How come? About brand. First of all, I'm the greatest kitchens, I've made have been how just sing. You're just telling people, and of course, if you do want, and so far the most friendly one that I've had happens to be my home state, Tennessee, they just I walk in. They go Google and Gaga what I wanted to root. It's amazing. I walk in the other rooms, and I don't even exist. They don't know who I am. Well, actually, I've got to go to DC I'm gonna visit DC's hospital. He'll told me to go over to Pennsylvania. So I gotta go to Pennsylvania tonight. You've gotta Pennsylvania. We've got to DC not just that every Hartman show. We also have a. Up in Pennsylvania. Everywhere where and Burke so reaches hometown. Yes. There's host one hundred commendable. Host really bad building Facebook page into one site trying to get his his off the ground. If you can just make a mental Mark post one hundred that's in he's. I'll get you the invasion, but he's he's got like eight members left, and they're all over seventy. And he's scared because he doesn't want it to fall apart. So he's got twenty dollars with me to run a Facebook ad to help promote because they're coming up breaking up some putting together for him. We're gonna run on Facebook specifically in that code to reach. So some Facebook to find for him. That's just a small, but you see that right? There is such a small, but important keys that with all the business in the craze sedan. He can fall to the crap and he won't reach out and tell them that's why don't you talk to somebody. So I'm doing I understand the proud thing. But I mean, listen, I don't know how this far except for the fact that you couldn't get into. They don't you know, again, if you don't ask you don't receive, and that's so attention, host of you're struggling or having a hard time reach out to somebody. So we can do something anybody does your the video where we do a weekend to help our struggling posts and absolute willing to do. Art, good posts to praise yourself about yourself. The good the bad the ugly. We're here to talk about it. You're struggling at your post. You you need to talk to membership. Maybe there are things that we can do in membership to help drive people to your host. I mean, that's that's what we're here for it. It's an quarters its support the most in what they're doing. So. Send an Email makeup. Oh, we don't have all the. We might have Hugh. What's the biggest misconception of? Choose. I already said where thrift store. Team we're born right? Versus clubs. Much more. Why don't they know that? I'm still hearing someone say who's aim bets? We have promoted ourselves. We are going to do. And and I think that you anybody's team you're gonna have been involved in the organization since January. No, I'm not I'm not gonna do that. That would be disrespectful to Joe anybody who has been involved with him. But for the last two years, Joe Chanel ers director took over should see a different and certainly should see a huge difference beginning in January of this year, and that will continue and only can be. Anything else fully so quarter, Jose community partners? They curriculum. So September fourteenth in Maryland where our community partners. And this is where the community partners come together, and they come to trends, and then in October the inaugural will have a career community partners. They also giving opportunities for our veterans and have food for the holidays. Get doctors to get different types of gas cards and all those good things that will be providing for them on September eleventh Tuesday before team you'll come on and talk about it because exacly. Exactly cards actually do ladies. I need to make sure that you guys have some of these cards with you. And I gave some of these to Alex. And he said something about my attention. Well, your names is said, well, yeah. Because I'm the one that handles the scheduling and the whole stuff either way. What about? Yes. Starring out give these embassy, you know, 'cause everything about the radio shows here. Also, if anyone to donate to these upcoming events where veterans who are looking for employment or looking for the other type of resources that you wanna give gas cards. If you wanna give out anything you contact our development officer, and she loves to assure her relations. So you send him or mation to maybe at the Kirk Lee that K R K L Y, and that weight and national service days dot work, and my office number is three a one. Eight three four zero six six if you didn't get any of that Email period. And. Radio g mail dot com. Cell phone number. Now, I I didn't. It's on my business hand that out. Now, I'm just excited about the coming year and things have planned and the sport. What would you do? What would be one? You're easier. Everybody the reporting. So right, Greg, you heard that your your plan RIA on making better than you and Carl you guys UCAR. And of course, we can't forget about Alex out a lot of firms that everybody seems to need. And so there is no doubt that. Choose extremely bright. That I've been working with that. Reporting. I'm trying to get it easy where everyone do. So. Menu meeting. I think I've. Okay. Excellent. Thank you. Smart pleasure to run a quick. And so we can take a picture. And then we got do me a favor introduce really quick just so that they know her name. Well, lis having our wages. Kluber Princess on the show next. She wanted to leave. We met her yesterday in just a few minutes. What's let's get going with this and come back in a little bit more introduce we'll with them, but it's radio show, number seventy three. Tri-cities military Affairs Council, and then butts post thirty seven is dedicated to supporting encouraging an advocating for military veteran affairs, northeast, Tennessee as they relate to national defense and economic vitality of the area. TC man is a five one seat three nonprofit organization and are made up of many different organizations, and that's. Teran's of foreign wars. Vietnam veterans of America, the American Legion employer support for guard. Reserve student veterans of America, east, Tennessee State university and many others. Membership is open to any individual firm organization. Please visit our website at WWW dot T. C hyphen M A, C dot ORG. Download our membership application. All right, folks. Welcome back to show radio number seventy three. Okay. Now, this interview is going to be one of those original ones only. Because even though we mar I don't even know why you're now when you expecting be now, no. Are you nervous? Maybe a little bit down. Abby Waite Hoover. I mean, you you can you can attest to this. Hang around the wedding, dress get married convention, actually, the I on someone else's home. Really the chaplain for cooking took a picture with you, Chris he's and we were he was slipping through pictures, and he was something else. And all of a sudden he really went quickly where US is. Oh, wait is. Chaplain. And and I'm pastured retrievers, and so immediately we always the ability that was. Come down for making something you should which was not know better. Hit me wrong. But I. The Sam that I said we have what miss doing? What does she? So why am I missing? What I didn't realize the hospitality. Coming down the stairs. And he mentioned you and let's see and within about twenty minutes. I had a friend request. And next thing. I know where you are. So I. What is the white clover? Printing. Nothing missing Mike haram for fifty two years. Now, I'm the sixty first -secutive, Princeton and white clover Princess, she goes to different than ladies times riders and removes the envious and tell the munity ams for veterans and the community around them what your type of cheese. Sharp cheddar. Okay. Right on the board. Multiple times. I don't. I mean, I. Yeah. I mean, my question was high peace too. No fifty. I know. I'm still learning. I'm not sure. So the name. Alan will Willis in willing. And you know, him how the program running and then. Source who I journal. Oh. Your stand where again part of him. That's there. It's similar to within the body of Christ. There's not one more important than the other. We're all important. All have this. Do you ever wonder? I mean, I this is only my second. So I. She has to be sports. And racing. Two hundred words, it wasn't hard to represent the minimum minimum minimum words still. How would be way cool and soon just? You know what? My essay was about how I wanted my grandpa and how I wanted to. And helping amber wells. Series. That's no. We never to call somebody. Yeah. You were just talking about that you mentioned you're getting a little teary. No or something there. I got teary eye. I know I'm perfectly going there. Because there's a story there something there. Is really important. You don't just be a part of Ambos because it is there something like my father was. Eighty eight missile Parkinson's disease from serving in the Philippines before he died. I I didn't know if I could ever. So I decided to join the army. People know the story, but I I have because to get into. So I signed up to cut my hair, it'd be metal in bands. Come here to smoking weed. Like pass. This for other issue. It is one crown. After undoing. I still the drug tests. The guy that sign up. We're sort of the place. He ended up Desert Storm. For reason. For whatever. Re God is you? Vision and someone in your family. Maybe you're. Come on. Oh, no this important come over. Because this has everything to do with. Why? Because there is. There's there's a reason for this very reason, whatever the. Okay. Okay. Once the storm. Well, I never met grandfather's from my mom, my dad, and I never. And here's the phrase about what they what they. Time for our country. So and I never story. I didn't know that the country, and it's. Raised my kids. Or people who have served our country. You guys do do. We wouldn't be today. Veterans who served me, I wouldn't have had the privilege to serve when I so I mean. You're out so many more. Really? You see we also went to the congress library helping find my grandfather, and I did research and research, and it was a POW. And that's just since she's been way. So we'll one. What would you do too? The ambition hearing their stories and being really work. And then my sister was over two years ago. Meet more people more people tradition. We were wondering. I one there you are in June at least junior and in June. And I was like goes the national budgets and going on and you can read more. Two. You're out going now, right? Dad off leading Fennell that back in it. Again, keep going isn't new clover. She's going to be doing great. Up real quick. Hopefully, this is going to be still continuing by the time. I get back because I definitely watching weight is miles is going to be stepping up to the plate back from his reason comfy clothes and taking over my portion of co host for this a little bit of the interview Perry. I gotta go more for investor. Venture house you shortly. So now, I have another new planning college station or remember him. No. Impact you can make. In your life. I mean, obviously, I'm not join just joining. Yeah. Fact is you have a heart passion veterans, and obviously your is. Part of it. And you remember, amber? Four years four years. Actively things for both. Because you know, there's a spot. Part of the fluorine, and or if she chooses to coin into the service. Where do they? I'm thinking. Yeah. Thinking armies here for. How old? Okay. So seventeen so why you're focusing on college preparing to get into that where you. I'm not sure it. General's? I. I'm doing something. Yeah. Are you close? The national friends. She's definitely going the. He predicted yesterday that someone gave me a little time. She turns there should leave Hillary president. And it'd be at thirty years old could be pretty that can be pretty powerful. Yeah. It'd be putting on her. And everybody has choice. Yeah. Because one of the things that's. Last year and a half. Get out if you are you'll never go ward. Because there's time everything we do. And there's no business hours. That's right. Never ends. Those are listening who know about what is that. She'd do. Who is in college to this morning? So just. Starting. To give one of my cards. Also got her in. Got her is because we have to make this tradition now now that I know. To include it yet. History along no way. Yeah. In every pie speaks. And so in that what is your thoughts or comments about this? What would you know? What is this doing? Kind of ties into the juniors and just other than we have. Really? Country. Avenue as far as. That little country in heritage. Keep it going. I wonder comparisons of senses had exist. Right. And you got him. That's Princess, right. You also have these. USA and all these other. I mean, they do it. And they'll have a speech about how they wanna make the world better place, and that's their whole motivation. But I think what you do position that you hold is far greater than what they could touch only because why you're doing. More than than almost week and one of my favorite little funny inches, if you ever did you ever seen movie, Bruce, all my Jim Carey, remember his prayer the first and God says, well, that's good. If you're Miss America. Give me a real prayer. Yeah. And the fact is I again, not knowing what it is that you knowing that exist. I think thing that you're doing that you need my crueler permission. But I think it's fabulous. And and really great. Actually, the veterans. Get out. I there to. Over. You know? You know? To a lot of question. Now clean wouldn't mean. Per serving that are. Have. On this kind. The other ours Princess, I know that New Jersey had it. I think for four years. And for the other have had it. They just can't. Sure. Every state has. Sure, do you know? Dan, kube the state command or for tennis messages for you. We need over Princess man, gone. Let's get on the ball here. I'll help whatever. I I can't just let's talk. Really? Okay. So by next year, you won't be the convention next year. Warmer educational curriculum. But if you come back come back on again. We can follow up and then at the same time we have to kind of see where it goes. Because you have kids that's radio. Do everything because I think it is important. And I know some glad we ran in you win. I mean, I I I'm kidding, Alex. What I said I said. Because I don't know anything about it. She's here. Program. Yeah. 'cause there's only one person, but I talked to so many drought years. The Princess about what they are doing so nice pick it up. And more life could be. Excellent. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you didn't have to do it. And I'm really because I know about it. I've got an invest radio. His face. Page, and then attach picture a little bio something you can just so because you know, than I do either all now, I know I've got to go back, and listen and get it all but just put something on there some Jarrett, and then we will I will continue to understate command the nasty now that I know you, you know, what's going to happen. I'm gonna start. I'm gonna say over. And say what I'm gonna greenvale interview. Because this is. Workout. Yes. We have to get your picture. I'm gonna run a PSA, and we're going to be right back with actually no, I'm not gonna PSA I'm going to run. Ace. Don't ever moved it. We're gonna play a song. That's gonna do. This song is called your wonderful at we played this homeland better be. That'd be back on embassy radio show seventy three when we'll be right back. You can hold your head of Pac. No, right. I'm committed to. Yeah. No, I am Jewish. Welcome back to the Osho number seventy three. But of course, they've thirty one some race. This one things a little bit and bits radios. We can go live with somebody were supposed to have. Yes. Because the meetings. He got he got out and ties news is we have him now. And he is our membership director is Neal Harry. How you doing, sir? Dan, that's radio, and we have spent quite of time on this radio show. Membership and. On a couple of times. And and I send people again, I don't remember. Every. I'll send you emails every once in a while. Because every comes on the radio from post level, but I've got people that help that's aren't members. And in my brain, they need to be members. Remember? Throughout the organization, the military live. Raider. Two. Leadership in the organization. Hero moving towards the. Warriors. Come on board. Early are farming. The old school methodology that we use. We have. They meet three honestly. Funding. I live in digital world. Not really. Just. Move into that realm. Just. Posted. It'll be based on Facebook. And they'll be members Lauren. Virtual environment. Young game. How? Healthy competition. Interesting is talk to some of the younger coming out there. You're where duty. The. Veterans tell you get out job. Charts? Don't have to be a member. To that help. Fine. We'll help you. Iraq. Bureaucracy. But we haven't actual service officers specially trained. Disabled. The main is. That is to these young. What really amazes me? These guys down doors doing their job looking for the family of the bad guys. Do this for four five six hours a day? Amounts. Who is? Amazes me. So yeah. So they're doing real world coming back doing. So nationally when they. Real weapons down that gaming environment. So this digital post. Oh. Part of. You know, a lot of our numbers. When you're dealing with elected officials. A lot of times numbers. How? Supporting janice. Lobby group for the veterans on Capitol Hill numbers. Is. Dan vets. Two guys that are still in the workforce. Just two. We've got guys are. Beautiful Florida right now. Spending time on the beach. Pursue doing. Support. Together in nineteen forty four. In america. What a lot of people don't realize is back in those days. Pretty much. Pretty much. Yeah. That'd be pretty well to too. All these sort of coming back after liberating Europe. And that was never on the business. They came back. They were offered a college. Stress. Plus america. Cool level of educated Americans. Fifty. When when you. Maybe join them couple of key points. They bring up they say, this guy's stayed away. From that you have my membership. People think like me. Every year the. Table up. There was a young veterans. Female. About two. She's so. Volunteers of America that question. This weekend. We're raising money. Mike going on RAFI true. True last weekend. While run to raise money the previous weekend together. So definitely help young people wanna be brought to other people not. Open farm. They want to meet other young. They're eight scoop, and they wanna do something. Battle. They've military life. I understand the organization our. They don't. Into. We have very young actor. They wanna be they wanna do something. So you know, where response forces. And that's pretty much all those realms, but we're not known for and. Where in the rooms where? They have the floods hurricanes. We loaded up water truck town. We send people to help fill. Wheel. Meeting organizations like six. These guys. Retards still in the workforce. But there's giving free. So the goal people. I mean, they're the best in America. Continuing for just kicking back the foods. But their managers there, they they see the war. To feel younger. There have been studies show that the millennial. Points to the warriors not really doing. No cost. Art interests, maybe to emulate that. We don't change on mama entirely. Certainly have piece of that. Have to start thinking. And this is something that we can't do. It's not that we we're thinking in a different. Different time my evenings. When I was a kid are catching wrestle person. It'd be you know, playing army and swinging fake sources stuff, but I was out every night till the sun way back. Yeah. Nowadays. You don't see people out at all. I can see they're hard wire. They're firemen on stroke is what? Generation away. Are much hard wired into the internet through social media. School these computers are coming home. And you know, TV's h worth not you don't have what? What you can see you have. What you want? Tonight. I'm gonna watch this watch. Streaming video the cable. So it's a totally different realm and honest. No. I don't know where we're gonna. But I do know the getting some of these digital thinkers, our -sation, and we have one we have young readers gamer. Troy. Last night about. Can develop the. Remember at large scoop into this digital? I. Communication specialist. When. Miles. The next time. You him. Guys together. Let's get him on the air. Because I think this is very very important. First of all is changed changing. Bessis changing and one piece of the time important question that you might be able to give us. Yeah. How many total numbers? About quarter million. Family is. The american. Lead you talking about? Talk to the of them. Had a fall who's in the military. And as I looked at the age. Events. They have military. They fought the Greek war. They are sons dollars or two veterans. They're so proud parents service. That they serve other veterans today. Not having been bad. Just the fact that they have a veteran. And these are linear. Today, one guy came out. So you know, my dad. War world, even. Just in the last month. Korean war. Back to America there in Hawaii being ten flight now to try to determine who's service, then you know, so that you know with. That we have Hillary. Why? Big family. All work together to good in America. It's amazing. Two thousand. Since I've been which is little under a year almost two years for has. Hey, yeah. I but people pass away so balance between. Possible that that number is more. Because the age demographic, we do see, you know. Kind of even. Fortunately. Two thousand members of the year at least to the green. How you members to members this year? Run list. Remember every one of our green hats, the greenhouses. Wow. These like politics all local our power. Known. Being that's joining we have. So the. Online is the green hats. Starting to move into the digital realm as we become more quickly. Here on Capitol Hill. Was better budget wanted to take away benefits from? Veterans. Couldn't believe they wanted to off of the VA rolls on the social security role. Your Africa veterans thousand dollars a month. Taking out the roles put it at the social security. But what's really going? Cost-saving? What's even more galling? These guys are retired years. Most of them are disabled veterans. So they want to take money from retired stable veteran. He's not gonna be able to make up that income. Lawmakers. Holding the little amendment to save money and twit something else and try to get you thinking, no one would see thought. And what what they argued was. Well, you don't need this building money because you can't because your social security person has worked since suffered an injury Wong combat. Social security to and these that they were just trying to money. The ways they cut in the lucky enough to jump in and stop the Colin rolling here. Mobile. Every wrestler office in Washington. Really? Taking money away from disabled veteran. A week. But and this was streets knocking on doors. We took an office building. I have. One of the other people membership, and you know, we were serious business. This is wrong in America. So. So they're being for the veterans and a lot of guys realize. Know, that's the way it works. Luckily enough, you know, we've got legislate. Lead. She was thing. That's what was going on. Hey. Jochen ellie. Swallow pride. Emails still. You what would happen taking still? We stabbing hours. We got you know, finally, look, that's sort of. The does something. Yeah. Lord. Just so sample. Gonna be retired one day. You're going to be on a fixed income is somebody starts not your door next week. You have to do the same thou less that's impactful, and it's not right? Especially veterans. Deceased. Good. How long have you been the national membership for seven years? I was an army guy four and a half years in the army. Infantry soldier two years in the medical service corps. Wall. And then I'm one of those guys that graduated from high school. My dad did sit down and say. Well, so what college you wanna go to? Well. Join me for me. I hitch. University. Yeah. Missile. Two years. I've been around the block people. My moments. I get to where the court. Gets to court. Everything else was cool. Seventy years ago. Number right. It's a pressure cooker. Good job. I like it. Joe? There. There's so much better than me. Nothing. Seven years. You look at an sets as a whole there's obviously been changed. I'm sure over the seventy I know within the last year. Because the police place if you were to look at the last seven years, and you looked at your first year expectation of what you wanted to do your one then get any here to right? All of a sudden. And now, let's your five done for five years. You're down looking forward. And all of a sudden, you don't know something, you don't know also gonna take place. My question is looking at right now and X two years and the possibility of having a woman national. Would it be easy to predict an increase women's membership? Just how. Hello. I. That's I in charge membership one of his big push was going. Trying to get more female veterans organization. Women veterans we do have a posting to. Male. I can imagine is going to be too strict. Oh, okay. So he's he's been on the air talking about this. The membership director all the memberships coming in to have an increase all the work that he's trying to do. So. Well. Got a blow smoke for three. He's got forty seven. I and does have been female what we need to look at as organization, and we're doing through efforts we have this female to there. Started out with. I was just gonna say they weren't there. Proud of that. Absolutely. Been standing next sauce for a long time. They finally give them the status they deserve. My daughter is in that today. You know, we're worrying about. In the logistics area. Extremely dangerous nowadays, they're grabbing trucks to move supplies. I. Most people come back home visiting. Stuff. It's. Hooley made. These are being put together. Over there. And. These veterans than the game are working. Are they deserve our spec? I'm very happy to see her starting. We need to reach that. Fifteen percent today percents military women, unfortunately, it's hovering around four point five percents will do better going. We got here. Need to be. Embassy's fix. In the car the car one day mile this week. Down a rabbit hole. But anyway. We spent a lot of time, and I have problem with it. Because again, it's. Tell you the story. Landover national cores lunch free. Jerry, I kinda liked and so I. To read out through through my clutch, pretty out show up. She. Your car. The car and the slightly becomes walk around from the side of the split level. We wanna sell the truck back. Look at thank you know, too much time with that. She does that. Yeah. Guy. Force. She was. I was in the air force during the Gulf war. What did you do? She says law triage nurse. She went on to tell me that they had a. And just like the old man shows you hear the helicopters come in. And she said that these young guys brought to her. She was the one that said. Yeah, this guy probably good. Good. Got here's making. In here. Oh me at the end of the day after she guys. Contractor. She was the military trio mass shooting. At the end of the day. She going clean up the next day. She would push broom through the. The structures and stuff and she would be picking up the discarded land to black bag up to affirm pit. She said, you know, after I did six months, they said the second month rotation have enough people. So the extent of like ten months finally was able to go back to Texas and she's fine. Love. I did. I love the air force being Amerks. She was giving. What we produce the worst maiming and the horror war day in and day out. No showers. Battlefield mangled destroyed. Young kids. You know, she deal with that. And that's Mosul struggle for the rest of your car. So, you know. Respect, you know, what she did as a nurse to get nam, nurses, happy go through early days. I mean, it's to me. Veteran mazing serving or even more raising. So we need to do very good. Really? Yeah. Forget her. Where she lives to. It's a true story. Yeah. Yeah. Membership. Pretty, you know, jock all over sales mood. This like young lady, and she was fifty years old when times. A little true. It was amazing. Your story, actually. So and she said, you know, he says, I can't believe, you know, the people are going to work getting upset become have to sit in crap like thirty minutes, forty minutes. Traffic accident. And they're getting upset about. That's just so beyond bail for me to think that people are getting. The soon what she saw. More of us need to and we don't society that right now my brother's daughters. Stan we have other young against. Their tax further. And what even more so than just incredible? Is that a lot of times the national guard being sent over there? And they have such a sense of release through back for there in these days. And then four or five months, go get orders to rotate again, I've talked to people back three or four times. That's gotta be most stress. I mean to have the relief having survived and then coming home and hearing go back to survive again. People need to be aware of the decisions that are you know, are sex open-air. People shrinking. Vietnam was on tier. Graf was in. And, you know, virgin, then, but as the draft all became an all tier army continued to shrink, and they're finding military herbalist thing certain families. It's legacy military families that way. My dad was World War Two guy. You're bad. Well, known about the general population frustrated with their crafts and the cable goes out and stuff, but some of. Children's.

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AMVETS Radio #79 - 10/9/18 - Transitioning Veterans #2

AMVETS Radio

1:59:20 hr | 2 years ago

AMVETS Radio #79 - 10/9/18 - Transitioning Veterans #2

"Locked talk radio. Welcome to amd bets radio at ambiance radio were dedicated to providing who what where when and why of everything and that's nationwide for over fifty shows now ambitious radio not only educates. But tries to inspire all veterans serving veterans with interviews that are not only thought provoking but through humor decades of wisdom. Lots of great stories. And of course, information about ambulance. It's our goal of Amvest radio that after hearing this show you'll walk away different than you arrived. We thank you for taking the time to listen to ambitious radio and for more information including upcoming shows or previous ones, visit Amvest radio dot com. Now, sit back and relax buckle up and get ready because the am best radio train is about to leave the station. We've gotta love technology. You know, it isn't every day that you can start a show in complete silence. And wonder why things don't turn out the way they're supposed to welcome to aunt as? Well, one thing for sure a lot of our sick. So I don't know about feeling good. But I can tell you one thing is for certain, and that's radio is a lot like rocky league, not only not down. But you know, they begin to chant, and that's radio, then that's radio checks begin to come in. And guess what we are back up and running again. And I gotta tell you it is a privilege to have this show, and that's radio show number seventy nine transitioning veterans number two, you know, it's amazing. How we start these conversations and never know where they're gonna go. But one thing is for sure. And that is we are dedicated to bring you the most up to date information about am including the who what where when and why the show is brought to you by the following. And that's and different organizations, and that's George. I am Florida and California, that's consign. That's tennessee. And. That's Tennessee post forty five am but Tennessee post seventeen seventy six out in their Schmil, by the way, run happy birthday. So after we do our national anthem, we are going to send you happy birthday. We'll get everyone on the phone, and we'll all sing byu oaks lodge, number nineteen forty four Tri cities, military Affairs, Council veterans web design, and of course, painters dream productions allow me to bring on my co host. Who's also under the weather, Alex. How you doing, sir? Well, I mean, at least the fever broke last night. But. You know, as you said, we get knocked down everything, but keep EVA's radio down, Kenny Perry. No, heck, no, I'm not as far as I'm concerned. But again, it's none of my business. You know that it's always God's business. I just kinda I just filling the whole, you know. Oh, yeah. Well, we've got an amazing show tonight. We have our guests on from last week. We also have an old friend of the radio show that is actually gonna come on. It's Michelin Scarborough, and we're gonna have her on tonight. But before we get started. Why don't we go ahead and have our national anthem? And then we will bring Vanessa on. We will bring Caroline. We will bring Dan kube on and we will bring whoever else's on. And we will sing happy birthday. To run Bottomley it post seventeen seventy six. So if you don't mind, please stand. Ladies and gentlemen. Welcome campus. That's radio. For more information about amber, visit our website and our Facebook page and radio dot com, sir, Trambech radio. And I have every single one of your guys mikes on. We're going to do a roll call. And then we will sing happy birthday. Doesn't matter. How good or bad your voices are? It's the effort, and it's gonna go wrong Bottomley. Let's start with Antoine. There. Brother. Yes, sir. Wonderful. She'll are you there? No Sheila Orlando. No Orlando, Dan. Dan. Okay. We've got Dan, Alex. Brother, carol. Good even very. Vanessa. I'm here Perry. Okay. We got two seven area code phone number. Call news there starts with two seven. Oh nine to nine. Your mic is on. Please. Introduce yourself. You're gonna sing happy birthday to run whether you like it or not. Okay. Well, he's there being quiet where did that is going back on mute? All right. I'm kind of everybody we're gonna sing happy birthday to run one two three. How peoper? You see even with delays. That's not bad. I mean, it could have been much worse. Would you agree? Guys. Welcome you back to ambush radio show number seventy nine tonight. We're going to continue our topic on transitioning veterans, I know that in talking to talking back and forth. Messaging Sheila, I'm sorry with Sherman and he was a bit concerned because he thought the males spoke more than the females so Vanessa this is all you tonight. You're so we wanna make sure that everybody's heard. I am waiting for Sherman to come on as well as Sheila Antoine. Did you get a hold of her? Yes. I'm sending heard the number right now. Perfect. We want to include her to cause. Because there they're a lot of comments regarding this show. And there's a lot of things we've not talked about. Obviously, we spent one of the first parts of our show talking about job opportunities and resumes. And how to present yourself one of the things which we have not talked about is the homeless situation, which I know Alice you'll we've discussed before. But I know we can get into that. I know there's also an issue regarding with drug and alcohol abuse and how to deal with that and their transitions. And so we've got a lot of talk about tonight. Let's talk about tonight. I got a couple of PSA's I wanna run as right now, we got now on forty five minutes laugh, so Vanessa why don't we start with you? And was there anything in the last couple of conversations that we've not discussed that you could think of that you wanted to talk about tonight. Well, perry. I can't think of anything specific other than the resumes. I know I want to the website said to apply and register for help. But it didn't allow me to because I didn't have made resume to too into it. I know we talked about resumes, but there's got to be a resource for folks that need someone to sit down with them to go through that process in order to type for the help. Did you have any comments on that? Me. I couldn't say it any better. You know? I I agree hundred percent speaking from the the army standpoint, you have what's called the the tab transition assistance program. And, you know, this is just my opinion. And of course, everybody's gonna Pinon. But. I truly feel that some military posts go above and beyond. And I I truly feel that other posts that it's checkmark so the audience tonight and can take that for whatever it's worth. But you definitely have some post that go above and beyond it really sit down and and try to compare the or not compared but translate military terms to civilian warding. We'll call it which I know Alex is pretty funny conversation last week about that. But you know, again, I truly believe that there's some posts that go above and beyond and some other ones that don't, and, you know, whoever the the ones that don't then, you know, it's it's kinda like that'll saying that, you know, the shoe fits wear. One of the things. She tried to go to the gym veterans website. And she said she tried to fill up a form of because she didn't have resumes. She she said it didn't go through you get an error message or not not. No, I'm talking to. That's. I got a notification that I needed to download resume. Okay. And you didn't have one in other words. No, no. The one that I have I don't have access to you know. But it's. It's not sure there. I just thought that if if someone were to be in the same situation that I'm I'm in and make that attempt then is there advice that we can give people, you know, and like with the term tat until I got involved with end. That's and everything I didn't know that term processed out ninety five. There was no transition class anything nothing like you said curl. It was you know, you take these papers here here on post, and they check the box because you check, you know, you showed up, and they considered you cleared. Well, then doesn't do very well for figuring out. You know, how do you get? Acclimated into back into the civilian. Agree. One thing. I guess I just misunderstood. It was my website that you were going to that that you were having trouble. So you know, you got some notes right here already wrote down. And you know, honestly, if somebody doesn't have a resume, then what I need to do is point them to the contact information. The contact have paid whatever you wanna call it, and they can fill that information out. And of course, I'll definitely get a message. And then a text message on that then I can get a hold of them directly. And you know, we can speak about resumes. So never thought of that one of the great one of the things Carol that one of the things that's actually on your form is required field to attach resume. We need to change that this remove the required. So that she doesn't see. 'cause again that I that ever been brought up before have you had that before? Well, that's just because she's on. You know? But excellent thank you. I assure you by later tonight that will be changed. So that you can go ahead submitted. Thank you for catching that. Oh, you're welcome. That's why you are who you are. Right. That's what you do. Let me now hope for one second because we have got some more callers coming in. Let me go ahead and bring them on. Sherman. How you doing, sir? I'm doing great. How about you? Wonderful. Thank you so much for joining us. We started tonight show with James Brown living in America. And we went into the discussion of talking about some of the things which we've not talked about. Let me go ahead. We got she lawn to. Sheila back. Michelle, are you there? Oh, here we go. Again. I've got her mic on. And we've got to to. Let's see here's got Antoine back. And that course, nine to nine phone numbers. Still there. Okay. Now, Sherman one of the things which I also mentioned in the beginning of the show was that you're coming to me about how you wanted to hear some more perspectives from our ladies. So I told him in advance to be prepared for that. So and Avanessian there was anything that was on her mind that she wanted talk about that she was not able to. And she said that really hasn't been any. But if there is anything that you wanted to that maybe you thought about after the fact that you wanted to talk about we can start there. And then we'll let them go first. Sure. Well, the first thing I won't do is ever pretended. I speak for woman veteran. So any thoughts have are merely. Observations wife is a veteran of the Aghanistan work. I have lots of friends and acquaintances who are who are women veterans who transitioned out of the military, and in fact, one one quite recently, and I got to watch her both through the process of filing a claim for military sexual trauma, and how very heartbreaking for me to have to ask questions that I knew had to be asked. But what I hope to get through it. And of course, because I'm close to her. I could do that. But often wonder, you know, if she didn't have meat help sort of, you know, navigate these waters here that you really wanna have to navigate a who do that, you know, what should be able to walk into a veteran service organization or which is typically male. There are a lot of women veterans and who becomes service officers. But in my experience has been mostly men, but how do we how do we have these these veterans do that given the Pearl takes relive a lot of this stuff? So, and I know that's not the experience of all seeing that there are the same thing. But, but it's it's been my experience that women have to navigate things a little bit differently than males in many cases that I worked with you know, the woman had a family or tried to regain her status. Mom in a house where dad or grandma was taking care of the kids while she was on deployment. So there are those dynamics there that that are unique to the women veterans. I've encountered and I just wondered what Vanessa anyone else who had to walk that wall. You know, what that's been like, maybe they didn't see anything different because they're just going through it. But I just wonder if their thoughts that are unique to that population that we need to be more aware of. Sherman. I can I can speak for Mike spirits on that or. About twenty years. The fact that I was veteran was ignored. After I got out dependent spouse going onto military basis getting the medical care the military hospital. It was not acknowledged that the veteran that was veteran dealing with PSD from MS. No one ever mentioned anything about falling playing until I became involved with and that and then since that since I became involved with Ambit, it took counseling and a lot of support to even start the process. It's been little over a year and a half. Now, I'm just now on the eve going in for the CMPS valuation for the MS t-. It's not been an easy process. And like you said trying to have those those conversations with someone that you're not so sure about having the conversations with. It doesn't happen easily. If at all. Right. And what happens is these women veterans, in many cases, it's not just MS. They're confronting. They also serve under fire or tough conditions. And so there's that on top of the experienced seems to happen. More to women than any the than the men, although, you know, per capita men, they experience more than women just on the raw numbers. But the rate of MS t happens to be much higher among women effect gives me tuneD to bring up a recent Bill that invest supports. It's called the violence against women veterans act. It's H R six eight six nine and it's intended to calls for better integration of medical housing, mental health services that the VA provides and the idea is to integrate services with community based domestic violence and sexual assault services. So that there's a. Support that starts with the DOD come through VA, and then attach is at the community level for for victims of domestic violence, which happens to be another one of those things that happens to men and women however to women in greater numbers. And and so we I wanna make sure that our listeners hear about HR six eight six nine and read up on it and find a way to get your congressional representatives to to support this Bill pretty important piece of legislation. That's way overdue. Anyone? Well, I think that bills actually vital portion of what it takes to getting back on track with integrating our veterans back into society and also making. Fairness and treated with dignity when it comes to their mental health and their medical treatment was I'm he's you'll see female veterans, especially being treated with more than inadequate dignity when it comes to mental health care system when when female veterans now, I I've I've never been a female veteran in a mental healthcare facility, but I have been in mental health care facilities with female veterans. And what you'll see is is are not provided adequate undergarments due to the fact that they have under wire or the they have west dista- to them. So you have female veterans, you know, in collective gathering areas and common rooms with male veterans who provided, you know, no form of undergarment to kind of, you know, give them that sense of adequacy. I mean Sherman you brought that up several times before I mean if you'd like to elaborate on that. I'd appreciate it. Oh, you could go along way. Yeah. Well, you know, the Bill coaxes onto mystic violence, and I'll talk a little bit more about that second. But. Someone who has gone through specialized services in my case would injury center. You know, it's amazing. The things you see happen. There are women who are amputates. There are women who become paralyzed are women who suffer combat injuries. And you know what? When medical care has to address the losses y case young woman had amputated armed from D blast the prosthetics. They don't make those for women typically they women different way. And and in some cases, these are young women who at some point to get pregnant and can't get pregnant. But then you gotta do a wheelchair. That's an inequity fit time. It takes get a new one is too long to be appropriate for women whose bodies changing and enduring pregnancy while dealing with an injury like that only need is a chair that the data to their changing bodies. But don't exist in many cases, or they're hard to find. So there's a there's a unique. Journal that when veterans take along a lot of dimensions in one of that start to me is win. They required just as much there and in court, and it just doesn't seem to be this this notion that women will ever need this. So they don't have available to you become the squeaky wheel. So that's one area think that via deal you could do a lot better in terms of. You have for. Need coming up shapes and sizes. Another some skinny, you know, so I can't women have that that same level of customization in those rooms. So that that's one other Beijing I've had over the years that I've seen a little progress. But they're still aways to go with that term. Well, it's funny that you mentioned the the and the wheelchairs when I was at Walter. There was a young female who had lost right leg. And she was up there with me and the wheelchair that they had given her as you mentioned, they don't have many adaptive wheelchairs for designed for females and she was unable to push yourself due to the wide wheelbase. In Adam quick manner. She would we had to have someone push around in the wheelchair which further diminished herself her sense of independence. I mean, grow losing so much independence going into that safe. It was just one more push above that edge. Been the case where they gave her a loner wheelchair. You don't get your customized chair. You've been there awhile. They could assess you know, kind of Cushing you need back. Whereas it was in picking a wheelchair a lot of people. Don't know that. So in that case, you know, I think all of us at the at the newest stage of injury, we get stuck with these big. You know, we call them grant. Grant, people cheer grand person share, you know, somebody elderly that needs to sort of airport share until we get our customized share. So I hope that was the case with her. She was merely waiting for more customized model, which which they should expect whenever somebody goes to Walter Reed or own the spills. But that's about things like attach an arm is usually a kind of a scratchy comes across your chest. So that you're strong shoulder can take some of the weight the wing, the weaker arm, but women have breast, you know, when you have come across a different way than what a man, it's not a comfortable fit. And it's not conducive to be like, you said being independent and having that prosthetic work for you. This case works against the woman, unless they come up with a way to make the harness in a manner that will. Accommodate different shape of a woman's body things like limbs, and all that all those things become issues. And so funny because after the Boston bombing it was funny like that. But it was it was something to see Boston bombing. How many women were injured young women? And there was a big effort to create prosthetic limbs that that were appealing to the woman that that was as close to having an original as possible in the like care was put into making those prosthetic limbs, you know, I deal for, you know, young woman who wants to look good evening, Chris and things like that. So I saw that. But it was only when that happened that I began to see this sensitively toward, you know, accommodating women there needs just to same agree that that mill benchers get accommodated. No sure, you've talked about this Bill and the domestic violence issues with that one thing. I don't think we've ever talked about on this show. And I would hope that you have the numbers if you don't I don't mean to put you on the spot. What are the rates that women are abused within mental healthcare facilities when they're pleased with fellow men and stuff like that. I mean, that's something we skipped over in t- statistics as well. That's a pretty good look into. I don't hear about a lot of have heard about attacks that have happened to women. And there's there is a benefit process that addresses that particular issue if it happens you can follow claim under sexual fifty one of title thirty eight where you're compensated. If you're if you're mentally affected by tech like that it's similar to medical practice. If you get attacking your patient in some some nurse or patient attacks, you sexually assaults you first of all the person needs to be arrested and putting jail. But but there are there is dressed that's available for any victim of sexual hospital. It has been my experience that a lot of that has happened all the way I have this. But, but it's it's pretty secured via hospital, and there is great caretaking to assign women to individual rooms or room. With another woman veteran in very processes in acted ensure that doesn't happen. So I'd be surprised that numbers berry high. I will say though that women veteran suffer at a rate of third higher. Violence. Compare against a non veteran. Chance at once. They're hired. That woman veteran will be domestic violence. So so that's just. Just statistics keep in mind. It's also the case that women are one point eight times at greater risk of committing suicide. Then non veteran women. So I think they go hand in hand to a certain extent, it kinda tells me that women what a lot more than most men do when they get out even if they have on service and all the things that should come with that we have a ways to go with now recognize duty women, but also winning get out and appear to put up with a lot. If these ticks are accurate, which I believe they are. It's absolutely appalling here, and it's the fame that stuff like that goes on in our society. But I'm glad to hear that uh damn vets and name vets national is taking that into the forefront is trying to do. It's best to address that. Part of that effort. I've got a sister who served in Marine Corps, close first cousin who's career air force servicemember of she hadn't got gotten out yet. So what's in our family? And we just we just wanna see our our sisters in arms three much better. They've been treated in many cases and see them more prominent and Obam bits of the commander is made it clear that he wants to see women veterans and leadership organization, and we're gonna we're gonna do to make sure that happened on his watch. It should have been done a long time ago, but we're gonna push to we see more women veterans giving opportunities to lead organizations like this and other parts of society where potential is on tap in these to be tip. And that's absolutely true. We definitely need that. But you know, there is that unfortunate. You know, insist I'm not saying all in vets posted like this. You'll see a lot of ostracize ostracizing within the veteran community of our female vets. And you know, I think that's something that I'm is leading with. And you're seeing a lot more with veteran services organizations. I mean, the American Legion had their first national female commander. Well, many of these veterans service organizations are starting to make that shift, and it's something that I'm glad to see. And I'm glad to see the Amvest as being a part of that as well. With you. One of the things I have seen. Those more women sorted, you know, taking ownership of their of their potential and making our society recognized what they have to offer on. They do it in the military already seeing every seems like every few months, I hear about some woman who crack through another barrier in the military, whether it was reaching rank getting certain job leading a, you know, combat battalion. We're seeing a lot of the sect. So young woman who was the first whatever the class commander is a West Point. This young lady was the first one very very dignified young woman. And I'm proud every time I see that. Because it means we're moving in the right direction. And hopefully, we'll see, you know, maybe our first woman secretary of veterans affairs or secretary of defense some point. I think the arc is born in that direction so out to be alive to see it. And certainly be a part of it. If we can if we can do anything to make that happen. Sue. Rather than later. That just graduated from ranger school. I you know, female that the graduated from from the ranger tab. I mean, that's. Edible accomplishment. She was the first enlisted female to go through. We had the first females the actually were to cadets from West Point. Years ago. They were the first females to go through the course and receive their tabs. And now we just recently had the first female enlisted soldier to go through the ranger force. And it, you know. It is something quite remarkable to say, right. My lifetime. Missile kind of news hit you when you hear about stuff like that. Does it does it kinda irk you that it took so long or or what are your thoughts? When you hear about these these breakthroughs. It brings a sense of pride to be a female veteran and know that I at one point good place to help pave the way for that as well. As all of my sister veterans that have helped to pave the way for these these women to be active duty and to be able to achieve the chief -ment that they've cheat. It. That all the stuff that we through and all the the fights in challenges that we had to have this to say that we had the right for not not. Valid. I think for for women in the military. Sure pay. This is Carol. I got something that goes along those lines, and it's kinda funny story and keep it short as can. But in Korea when I served there to idea Casey, I sergeant pulled this. It was new person that joined our company, and she was a female and we're having a PT test that morning, and I'll never forget it. He pulled her up there. And he said is there anybody that thinks that they can outrun her? And if you do I'll give you a four day pass will accords. I hear four day pass. And you know, I mean what what's the worst? That can happen can get beat no big deal. So I stepped forward there's probably about ten of us to step forward. And I actually ran the fastest two miles that I ever did in the military ran it wanna say it was like twelve twenty. Something like that. I crossed the finish line. She was actually over there drinking coffee, and she actually ran it was a little bit under ten minutes, and I was actually NBC and CEO. And of course, I'm just going. You know? We got set up. That's all there is to it. So later on that day, I went in and you know, permission speak freely. I it and he said, yes, I said what was all that? And he goes, oh, she was in my last unit. She was a she was a specialist, but she was in my life unit to probably about eight months ago, and she's been on the army track team sense. And of course, I just smiled and said, you know, Roger that moved out. But yeah, she ran a little bit under ten minutes, two miles. And of course, just smoked everybody. So nobody got a four day tests. Prize me, if you want to be hold is being a a student, a new student address school that para silent and finding out that the the toughest scariest instructor out of the eight that were assigned to our class was a woman ren- named gunnery sergeant and her last name was actually sorry, so addressed or you have to call her gunnery Sargent Sergey tell you. I'm gonna tell you. It wasn't a parent that she was a bodybuilder. I didn't know all this about you just look at, you know, somebody uniform, you assume they're fit, but when she got up there to pull ups and would run and for me, it wasn't even about being surprised because I seen strong women before, but she was a born killer. And what pisses me off. And I hear about guys talking about women is I've seen a lot of week men. Can't keep up. So why is it? You know, why is it the case that we automatically assume Winnie chant shocked whenever a woman can't nowadays. You've got some women that have some we call them wrecks and the Marine Corps where got ribbons Commodore with purple hearts. They're wearing their walking around with with with more on their verbiage chest in in terms of the ribbons in the stacks. They have a lot of the guys, especially the ones that are joining now who haven't really been deployed. These women are moving up in rank. And eventually, they're the ones that are going to be leading PT so mations type formations things like that. So I think we're well pastime we're surprised when woman performs a man it's just a matter of you know, the standards that are set a lot of men will will fall in. So some women but giving women the opportunity to prove it just like men and giving their opportunity to fail succeed. That's what we owe the now and a lot of them are demanding this where where we're going to have to some point. It won't be such a such a big thing to have a woman outrun every man in the battalion at some point. Just add to what you just said. I actually do full distance iron man's, and there's some women that the half of the pro men. So when it comes to something like that, you know, you're talking about two four slim hundred twelve on the bike and run up marathon. And I'll be very honest. I started the marathon, and I was probably five miles into it. And the women were crossing the finish line. And they only started about thirty minutes ahead of myself. So, you know, it's it's funny that that so many people sit there and say when we can't do this. But you know, when you start looking at major sports and things like that. I mean this weekend is you know, Kona which is probably the big ironman race. And you just want watch those women, they're they're just absolutely incredible. Actually like watching. The women feel more than I need the men because additive within. You know, who you ever heard, Ronda Rousey? Oh, yeah. Makes arts can you? Imagine standing across from her at hand to hand combat Druce. No. The other end receiving end of of that partnership there. I'd be sick all that day. Right. Hey. Right now, you you might you know, mess with the person you're one of the guys in a bar. You know, run up on some woman, who's, you know, who's got some combat time, and they may herself. In fact, I love to see that, you know, for some jerk wants to pull that. But you all serious time. Now, where we we need to just see the playing field is level get over our vulnerabilities. And our if you're you're already complexes in terms of a woman being able to do something better and benefit from, you know, if you have a great woman servicemember your team is healthy. I think it makes you better versus makes you better because women do think differently than men, I think tactically when I went to the basic school in Quantico. There was some stars. And in terms of battlefield tactics. They can see things that you know, that weren't about pride or weren't about the things that maybe mental Kasan they could see or. Instincts were a bit different. So so when you see that happening training environment. And then you see women who are honored decorate for having gone through that that real life experience. They've arrived. They've been here a long time. But we're now seeing across the board they've arrived in and we we benefit from society that elevates everyone who's got ability not not based on their gender. Strong statement. And I agree. I pay how we doing. Is she on? Yeah. Praise. God. How thank you Lord. I just kept your mic on long enough. I'm so glad you joined us. How you doing tonight? I'm doing fine. How everybody else we are on fire. We are. We've we've spent the last three weeks talking about transitioning, and you know, I know you've been through because of your experience you have a lot to add to this conversation. So take as much time as you need. And if anybody wants to chime in, that's what the shows for matter of fact, let me do this really quick or an hour and thirteen minutes left on the show. Lemme one one PSA I'm not gonna put anyone's Mike on whole. 'cause I will not lose Sheila, no matter what. So if you can't just might your microphones real quick. So that I can run these PSA's, and we will be right back with them vets radio show number seventy nine if you're listening to him that's radio, you're already interested in building the organs. And we all know that the key to our continued growth is getting the Gulf war and later veterans involved. So I want to suggest that you go to communicate with them where they already are. That's right online. Your post needs a fresh current webpage and Facebook page to bring them their veterans web design is just who you need to help get the job done at veterans web design. Their mission is to help veterans service organizations, grow and prosper through the use of the internet to find out more. Visit WWW dot veterans web design dot com. Celts were founded based on the principles of the American flag. The oaks are dedicated to our veterans and our community. We honor our veterans on Memorial Day on Veterans Day throughout the year. We also support the boys and Girls Club and sponsor at Christmas shopping trip to WalMart. So the kids can buy presents for themselves for their families. Thank you very much and God bless America. For as long as there are veteran. They will never be forgotten. If you're interested in the elks, please go to Tennessee, elks dot org. A lodge near you. tri-cities military Affairs Council, and that's post thirty seven is dedicated to supporting encouraging an advocating military veteran affairs, northeast, Tennessee as they relate to national defense and economic vitality of the area. TC seaman is a five oh one seat three nonprofit organization and are made up many different organizations, and that's. Rens of foreign wars. Vietnam veterans of America, the American Legion employer support for guard. Reserve student veterans of America, east, Tennessee State university and many others. Membership is open to any individual firm organization. Please visit our website at WWW dot T. C hyphen M, AC dot ORG. Download our membership application. This is Joey kings second vice commander for I am vets post three eight nine in Carthage. If you're ever around causes Tennessee on the second Thursday of each month at seven pm Jonas for one of our monthly meetings. We made at the Turner school on spring street in Carthage post three eight nine regular visits to the including games. And bingo, we do an annual raffle for a gun which helps us raise funds or post three eight nine. We also do an Andrew coat drive and donate them to local homeless veterans and vets and post three eight nine and cartage is all about veterans helping you can find us on Facebook and feel free to call our commander Johnny Edmonds with any questions about 'em vets or design up today. Call six one five four eight nine seven five one one don't forget to tell a friend about us and like Facebook. Welcome back to radio show, number seventy nine where discussion is all about transitioning veterans and joining us tonight is a former employee of the US. That's she's also an army veteran. She's a friend of and that's radio. We've got Sheila Scarborough on. You've also got the founder of TM veterans, Carol Davidson, you also have the women's veterans liaison for Indiana. And also our Indiana correspondence for Amvest Vanessa Dylan, we have got and it's funny. This is the thing because for last I don't know how many shows I've given these guys the wrong title, and they keep sending the message, and they keep blowing it. So let me now re correct van vets DC post twelve first and second vice commander Orlando and Anton Thomas Orlando, Harare, Anton Thomas, I don't know for Landau is on. But I definitely know Antoine is and Sheila let's start with you. Our topic has been on transitioning veterans we spent a couple of shows talking about. Getting jobs. That's what Carol does Carol has a website called TM veterans where he helps veterans get jobs. He does resume building and things like that. So that further ado, the floors yours. Many of thank you. I do have updated news on US fit. The just lost eight grant right now the did investigation on them, and they still haven't finished investigating them. But they they grant pool and that was for the transition housing that have so from what I heard is that they tried to go to medical building since they lost their grant. But this still an investigation it's still have bit. So they're really going to be cutting back on a lot of things that that the veterans staying at me. All speak up your mic on. He pay. Okay. Okay. I just thought update you guys on that part. The transitional housing. I'm still here. Okay. Good. I just good. No problem. Okay. Okay. I'm sorry us talking about transition. Once you get out of the military and a lot of I know when I got out. It wasn't a lot of good information for a lot of veterans that were getting out, you know, almost like a few to show coming out of the military, especially if you've been in for a long period of time, and you only mindset it to doing things militarily, and then you come out and try to give the job out in the world. And then like you hit a brick wall in you try to figure out what am I doing wrong? This is my resume is all left been all my life. You know and military, and sometimes when you go to the workshops, I noticed that everywhere shot that I have been to they do resume differently. And so that tends to frustrate some of the veterans when they go the workshop, you know. I love. I can hear you. Oh, I don't know where the guys. Rest. My voice. I can definitely relate to go into a workshop for resumes. And and getting crushed rated when when I would the when the kids and I were at shelter when we were homeless they required. Everyone to go through these classes that was supposed to help you to find a job, you know, do a resume and the presenter was so ill prepared on the class in general that I could have done away better job. And in the process of need going to those classes, they've him symposium on how to help these women that we're at this shelter, which I did. Because that's that's who I am. And that's the kind of thing that that. I do it didn't do me any any good as far as helping me to better my situation, right? And I think that's the problem that we all run into 'cause I lived in transition how to and we have people that come. And I mean is different, you know, different resumes. Once again, I feel like I don't wrote a thousand different resumes. You know, and you know, the one that you do and you show it to the person just giving the workshop they'd be like, no, that's not. That's not the correct way. So then they show you another way. And then you go to another work shopping. You take that new resume to the workshop, and they're like, no, you can't do it like that. And it confuses people, you know, and a lot of, you know, just give up because it's like you going around in a circle and nothing is coming up with a straight answer. How is this resumes? Supposed to be. 'cause a lot of companies asking for one page. You know, you told a asking for one page, and then someone asking for two page, and then I was so for USA fat pages at one time it used to be ten pages. And then you just like confused. Make a comment about that. Absolutely. I was director of one of the major veteran service organizations. I, you know, I made it concerted effort to hire veterans. But I think this question all time whenever we would do seminars and workshops, you know, what's the best way to write a resume and always tell them. There's no one way that works when I look at a resume. I'm looking at the content. I wanna know who you are. And what you did white thinking qualified. So if you got to do that in two pages, we've been one and you can do a succinct. That's what matters. You know? We get these resumes where somebody puts it on his sort of parchment paper. They've got all kinds of decorative things around the border, and you know, and then it, you know. Taken. It's. Yeah. You know, obviously pay somebody or or or or you know, they put more effort into the look of the resume instead of the content. I've hire people that you know, maybe they've got a few bullets for each job they've held. But when they get the interview, that's what's gonna win them over. So it's really about getting interview. Sometimes I'll tell research on the employer. I only read the first half of the resume typically make my decision before I get to the end of it. Because you know, I look at too many resumes. This just hundreds you, can you can be sitting there looking at you don't wanna miss anybody. But but definitely work needs to go into the content, and what you say making sure it's accurate spell correctly. All the other stuff. I'd rather see words white piece of paper one or two pages. You know that that tell me who you are than anything. So I say that only because there's so much as island over how you do that. And there's no one way that worked me every employer different, right? That's the nature of of of. Veteran transition. There's no one way for transition. That's why the services happy really customized and take into account who that veteran is as an individual not so cookie cutter assembly line that doesn't wherever every. Oh, yeah. Go ahead. Go ahead. I think we need to train the resume facilitators on that Sherman because I think they go to the same school of goin'. You know, this is the preferred way of how we were taught. So we're going to teach this to our veterans, but then get all sorts of veterans from all sorts wants alive, and he's moderators are going from the same cookie cutter. She and we need to retrain, the workforce that's teaching the veterans on what is the acceptable practice to actually structure their background. So that no matter what interview environment they go in they'll be cared for that. I think that's a really big problem across the board. It is key things to things to that. This is Carol number one is you know, a resume is getting your foot in the door. If you listed out four pages of, you know, basically ages e or call it, and you know, you're telling them everything, you're you're not leaving any kind of questions to have you. I mean for that interview. Number one, you know, number two is that resumes. Just they're they're exceptionally important. But I think Alex he's been kinda quite utterly under the weather, but Alex the nail in the head last week. And I kind of went back and forth Germano. You were in conversation, but you know, to have some uniformity in and again doesn't matter what branch, but have all the Melissa's listed, then of course, when you type it in it transfers it over to the civilian. Call it warding. Because again, if somebody it doesn't matter one employer, if they never served in the military, and again, you say nineteen kilo you say, you know, track full patch something lost right there. So, you know, having that we'll call it uniformity across all branches. And you know, honestly, throw out of word that I think is gonna open up a can of worms. But accountability if we're sitting there, you know, and I say, we the, you know, the transitioning personnel. They're giving the classes it were holding the the soldiers and the transitioning veterans accountable to go to those classes, my question is who's holding me accountable to make sure that I am providing them the most accurate information in making sure that I'm doing everything possible. So in that person does exit the military that they are success. My question. And I'm gonna I'm gonna take it one step further. What I said at the beginning Perry is I I mean, I deal with a lot of military installations, and I can tell you this right now that some are absolutely excellent. And you know, just say the person's name just first name. Greg actually, great Patrick shown. I love those death. I mean, those are three really great people all retired Yates in above. And you know, they just go above and beyond. But there's other locations. I can't even get a response back. I did you know, a an Email back or phone call or anything else? So, you know, my question would be if we're held to, you know, a very very high accountability. You know, why we served in the military who is holding those people accountable to try. Rain, and to communicate to all veterans getting out to make sure that you know, that that they're going to be successful. Or you know that another step further you can lead a horse to water. You can't make it drink. So you know, I get it that everybody is not going to to get the same out of it. But again, if uniformity, and you know, the process, and you know, basically all branches were doing it the same way, I think that you would see a lot of the unemployment rate of veterans actually, go down just by doing something like that right there. And again, that's that's my opinion. No. So just like some of the workforce job employment places. I have been to one up in Maryland. And they have veteran reps this both to fix the veterans. And I went up there. This is a few years back. I went up there, and I have my resume on my son drives and the veteran rent was like, okay. I need to go up loaded on the machines that uploaded on the machine and then the only instructions given word, okay? The worms with the flags on their jobs with the flags on their those veteran jobs, if you see one light, you know, you know, go in and, you know, getting number, and, you know, let me know. But what I noticed that? It doesn't help the veteran because it you still left out there on your own because you owners computer by yourself veteran ref goes back in the office. You know, you're out there with everybody else and you done which is supposed to do and you go. Okay. We'll just wait is not like the old days Rin who will go into the unemployment. I mean, the unemployment jobs, and and you can sit down with them veteran rip, and he will go he or she go through those jobs Utah. Some if he sells use all some that related to your job. He'll then they will contact that company. That person is wanna contact that they could call to let them know. Hey, I got veterans near once in a mobile in view. We don't go. No more since everything is so automated. Nation. And I think that's how we lose out on hitting job. I really think they need to go back to the old way. When you see veteran king go in to that rep and sit down with that ramp, and they go through those jobs together. This. Likely one hundred ten percent. And you know, that's one thing that wish to basely just because we resume we just don't shoot it off and say, you know, hey, look at this or whatever we are actually calling the person, you know, the when I say, the person, the employer potential employer and going over, basically, the, you know, the background the experience the room growth because a lot of companies, and I'll tell you back in the day when when I was interviewing somebody, you know, let's just say I was in somebody for a supervisor position. I was actually interviewing them for the manage of -sition, let let's just say, you know, supervisor managers command, I always interviewed for one step further in the reason for that is is the person have potential for growth. This is something that I did. But speaking, you know, which you just said everything is automated. You know, whether it's emails, whether it's social media, whether it's you know, whatever it is. And. I think you know, we we lost focus. I mean, you know, I can look back and have cell phones back in the eighties, and you know, the the early nineties, and you know, if you wanted to talk to somebody pick the phone call and now, it's you shoot an Email. And you know, I personally think that that we really lost a lot of communication skills because you know, you can shoot somebody a two line sex or something like that compared to take in the phone of. And you know, basically saying, hey, Larry, I wanna talk to you about this. Right. Being. You, you know. This thing, but they don't know the military coach. So how billions, you know, like, okay particular job, and there's. They don't they don't know language. The culture, you know. They bring us here is if I'm coming. Resume that is. Bullet points, or whatever the case may be. Based on my job is in the middle. And this person. You'll have no understanding of. You know? New. Only. Guys that are transitional housing. Place. You know, so. The military culture. You know? Closer to. You know? You know? All the. Veterans. That's true. That's a great point. Because you know, if you've it's that old thing, you know, been there done that. And when you can comprehend, you know, what they're saying in automatically, you know. And again, it really doesn't. I'm not gonna say it doesn't matter. But you know, all branches, you know, you're still a military that and understanding, you know, what they did in the military, and you know, you can look at an Emo, Wes. And you can really in my opinion, you can define what age in the military. You know, we talked about it couple of shows ago. And basically if somebody was a, you know, a nineteen low, which is a tanker and that they had the training NCO. They had basically the motor pool they have supplied. You know that Alex? I remember him saying that has just operations wrote all over it. You know? So I agree basically. Yep. Some people out there that do not know anything about the military that are trying to find jobs that you know, in careers that honestly. In my opinion, some of them and some of them have parts in there really trying and those people right? Thank you. But then there's also people out there that you know, it's all about and, you know, if it's about a number thing, you're in the wrong profession, if you don't understand the military. For that. And and. So. That we. Many times. That I that every wise when they transitioning coming out is to. They want to they want to open up their all, but they go go from. Yeah. And now the citizens to you know. Kids. Removed that on the negative side of things. Now, just so, you know, Orlando I've got your your your mic on. And I have a feeling you're probably sharing the same Luma's and Hawn, correct? Phones, and I'm on my cellphone. Okay. Well, I just heard your mic on I turn his mic off because you guys were in the same room together somewhat. There was a really bad echo. So part of what you just said. I didn't get did you guys hear what he said. Or should we have about that? Okay. Go ahead. And and and rephrase what you just faded. Well, you know, it comes down to that. We're left around vices where you know, we have to go ahead. And you know, there has to be qualified people competent qualified people to go ahead and help us. You know, veterans, you know, when we transition out. I mean, we're gonna have in the next few years closer to two hundred thousand veterans, you know, his stream of this nation, and it's it's gonna be a big crazy out there because everybody's gonna want him point. And everybody's gonna wanna, you know, take care of their family. They're going to you know, I if it doesn't happen because they're being frustrated because we have Mike that doesn't know the culture and the language, you know, trying to go ahead and help out of veteran, and he might have good intentions, but you know, it doesn't work out. Then what happens to that veteran gets frustrated try it again, it gets frustrated and before you know, it things are not working out at home. You know? Go ahead and go wrong on the on the negative side. So what you know? It's a matter of just having the right people and now need employment centers, but at the VA hospital that transitioning transitional housing programs. You know, everywhere that veteran to Joe to go shoot me somebody there as liaison. They knows the culture. Yeah. And but we're not going to get that. So we sort of have to you know, it's almost like a role of the dice. Yeah. Now. One of the persons heard from yet his Dan kube? And I'm wondering, Dan, I know you just got back from your meeting. But I didn't know if there was anything you wanted to add to the conversation. When we deal with mostly veterans are I mean out of the military, but then you know, right out of the military. We tell them to look in the blue pages, and you have six months apply for inning federal jobs, and they have to give you a special test. But then thirty days applying for that job. And of course, around here, we have TV then we have, of course, opposed to service of two main federal employees over here in this area. The transitional veterans that are older than that, we refer them to the college, and they have, you know, John openings over there, or they have resources where they could have them go to different companies in to look for employment, and we also have job fairs over here. A lot. And that's what we do. Well, you know, I looked at you know in. I don't know somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I look at you know, for example, the job fairs, then more even though they're there for veterans. They say from veterans, but you know, and speaking to a lot of these employers, and I've been to a few of these, you know, I'm is that more civilian based. Yeah. 'cause if I come in and I'm saying, okay. Well, this is what I did in the military. You know, and this is what I've done since the military. You know, they're not gonna look at my milk. I mean, they just gonna look at what I've done since the military. Okay, fine. But if you just coming out, and all, you know, the military and you're trying to apply for a job that becomes a problem. Because how am I supposed to go ahead and convince this person that I'm qualified based on the culture and the language that I know that they don't know. I understand but around here, very pro military. We have a lot of veterans in this area are company we have Amazon, then we have see we have Wacker. And all those employers looked at that military background. And my feeling is they preference there veteran over here. But may not be the same in your area. Understandable. And I applaud you for that. Yeah. Because not all areas will go ahead and do that, you know, they want the most qualified person sometimes that veteran, and and even though that veteran these the job more then that college graduate. You know, just finished getting a degree, you know. So. Right sheila. I'm sorry. That is true. Because when they have the job fair for the veterans that convincing than the downtown. When you go in, you know. Tell everybody brings please resume. Okay. You go in you got a bunch of people have that path. They take your information to look at your DD two four Tina goes into system. And then they send you a new upstairs to go to someone the other booth that I haven't, and as you say a lot of one, you know, degree, you know, you gotta have this degree that degree. But you probably work in that field when you're in the military, but you just don't have that degree forward. So long. When you go and you say his my resume their say, his my his car online and upload your resume intend to website. And that's it. And then most of the vet veterans, they go to the job fair, you know, being told, you know, take your resumes 'cause it'd be had on the spot. They gonna do interviews on the spot. You might have. I know I went to one day about two three outta hundred did a interview that 'cause I did one and I got picked at twelve and I didn't get an interview to thirty that night. But it was only one position and a lot of times they come to have one or two positions that all these people came out for. I under God. Different every every area is different. And. Yeah. Around around city spe-, we don't have a higher high of a percentage of college graduate as the northern states. There's no doubt about it and down here. They look at the veterans patience. And they do the interviews and hiring on the spine. Across the board. You know, all over like that. If everybody was on the same sheet of music when they do these jobs for veterans. You know, oh, you know, the state come together and say, hey, you know, the Spurs about to companies that are looking to have that then their representatives, but they everybody can be on the same. You know, she as it. You get a lot of bad. I know in DC, they get a lot of bad feedback because nobody gets tired that. They you know, you got people lined up waiting to go inside the convention center. And who you know? Some of the reps and stuff, but they're not, you know, they're not making in the park. And and that's the issue or younger veterans. They be willing to move to make pains in in where they live. So they can't get hired right? I mean, you know, you have you have to look at you have to look out for merely. I already for that particular, you know, veterans, you know, bam family might be, you know, one particular area, you know, in this country, and that's all they know. And that's what you know. They are used to even when they come back, you know, I'll leave and things of that nature. So for them to go elsewhere away from their family. That's a big decision for them to me is almost as though, you know, like when they went ahead and signed the papers to go. Hey, you know, join the military in the big decision. You know for every veteran is going to be different. Yeah. Because the situation's different, you know, some may already have family. But here it is if they're in Oregon, for example, and not much happening there, but hit is a lot more happening Tennessee for them. Okay. I'll we willing to go ahead and make that transition to Tennessee. And you know, how long were they take? And you know, what we are? You know, are we going to be able to go ahead, and and make know the transition, well and not go through any hurdles and things of that. You know, there's a lot of questions that come up behind that. I mean, those that are veterans to go ahead and doing like myself, not a problem, you know, but not everybody could go ahead. And you know, and I can do that, you know, they're used to either one area, you know, where they lived all their lives, you know, and family of growing up there and probably kids are there and their mom and dad and so on and so forth. So, you know. It gets to be kind of tough. I mean, good question. And and then you good number. They're probably make that Joan. But you'll find a lot that will. That. Carola wanna add one thing to that number one great topic? But one thing that I see a lot of days at certain military bases. And let's just use forefoot as an example for Hood, Texas, if they have a job fair, I'd say probably ninety five percent of all of the companies that are there at that job fair our recruiting just for Texas. So let's say that you have a veteran that wants to move to Kansas City, Kansas or Kansas City, Missouri. Doesn't matter how many companies actually come all the way from Kansas City to Fort Hood to set up, you know, and talk to to transitioning veterans that are getting out about the opportunities. That are Kansas City in the answer is very very little. And it doesn't matter to me. I'm using four could isn't example, you know of. Seen it at you know, forbidding have seen it at Fort Bragg. I've seen it at Fort Stewart of seeing it could seen Carson, you know, all and I'm not gonna say all, but I mean, the fast majority of all the companies they are right around that military post or that state. You know, you just don't have a lot of. I mean, I was very surprised to see at four Campbell. You actually saw DDS department of public safety four Texas that was doing recruiting there, which I thought we have also so that was absolutely fantastic. But you know, the point that I'm making is that a lot of the companies, you know, they're not traveling to the other bases. They're only traveling to the closest one to do the recruiting. And I think that they are missing out veterans at these other posts that wanna move back, and you know, sermon that was talking. That was talking about you know, that that friends and families, and you know, they were already set up in certain areas. Well, maybe they wanna move back to that area. But there at Fort Stewart, but let's say they're moving back to San Antonio, Texas. I mean, how how many companies from San Antonio, Texas. We're gonna come to, you know, Fort Stewart to basically attend the job fairs four positions that they have opened. And I think that's another. You know, something that can that can definitely be improved on. I think it really be improved on is there's not enough for real with at the exit briefs. And let me clarify that. There's not enough realist tool say when you get out you're gonna have some troubles. You're gonna struggle. You might have drooling with mental health issues might have struggling with PTSD might have it with physical injuries sustained. You might have marital issues that come along with the transition. You might have financial issues that come along with the transition. I don't see those people at these briefs. I don't know about you guys. But there was nobody there that kind of came in like a drill sergeant. And we got the basic and told us, oh, you think you know, what this is going to be like let me wake you up today. That right there Alex that is fantastic assessment right there because you know, you have a lot of editors that are getting out, and let's call it like it. Okay. There you Bob grant, greener, captain, something, and you have a lot of them. And you know, God gave me about to say. But they think that you owe them living just because you have that veteran you serve the country. And you know, what thank you for serving the country. You know, I appreciate that. But I don't know you anything, and you again, you the entitled come out and further I think that there should be a briefing that should be called reality check because there should be again reality is I don't care if periods getting out, and he's a sergeant major in Carol getting out, and he's PFC or specialist. We will. I'll have the same rank once we get out. And that is a veteran. Now granted have more experience. Carol, that's fine. But our rank when we get out we are a veteran. And that is one thing that I you know, I guarantee I seen it. And again, I is a lot of installations, and, you know, for the most part they do stand tastic job, but they should do a reality check. And that's the way that the conversation should start off is nobody is you living. You got to you know, you just like, you know, minute in the military. Nobody came in the military. A, you know, a full bird Colonel or came in and e seven you don't we had to work for that? And when you go into the civilian world, guess what you're you're. I'm not gonna say you're starting over. You're not starting over in that aspect, but you are starting to more 'cause you're starting a new career. So it isn't easy. You have a lot of people getting out to Caroline. I'm glad you touched on the entitlement process because there was some people that get out. I actually had this conversation with a couple of friends of mine out of probably about fifteen to thirty people. I got out of the army with the same time. Only four of us have you know, stuff going for us at this time because you get a lot of people that come out, and they see a job is beneath them. You know, you've got that complacency that comes along with. I was the team leader. I was a section sergeant. I was you know, I was commanded of battalion and they get out, and they see these jobs that are offered to their qualifications because some of them. What's be honest. The only job they've had since high school. They get out one. And they see that they these jobs are available, and then some people say like, okay, what say, you know, sergeant Tom gets out tomorrow, and you know, all the qualifications. He has. He's up to probably about a, you know, a minimum wage if not a little bit better job. Oh, no. I deserve a little bit more than that. Listen. I busted my Uncle Sam all these. Years I deserve better than that. It's what you qualify for man. Well, let's take it one step further on this. You know, how that people that say that I have a, you know, use the language, but it starts with an S job. And you know, they will just leave it at that. And I'll say you don't have a clue of what you know a job. I'm gonna use the word of bad job is. And what do you mean? And I said well, try removing a bucket porn, mo- guests, and sir, and we'll just say different things in Kuwait with you know, about rodent problems and everything else. So whenever you think you've got a bad job. You know, I literally did that I was in five and I did that one times. So my soldiers could sleep 'cause I knew for back that they've been a twenty five thirty hours. And so I went out and knocked it out, and it wasn't because it was you know, I was going to you know, wake up PFC such and such because he's a private, and I'm a sergeant. And you know, it's beneath me, you know, I it's that team leadership, and it's thing so. Don't tell me that you had a bad job or you have a bad job. When you know. Honestly, you don't have a clue of what a bad job is. And then you also have the. The matter the that are getting out who God out because they spouses pretty much says the military or I'm leaving you that happens more than people think. That you've had your your spouse moved. Oh, yeah. You move around day after day after day your spouse just wants to settle down. Not worry if you're gonna come home or not and says, listen you've done three four five tours. I'm tired of moving our family around. I'm tired of worrying if you're gonna go overseas again. And if you're gonna come back, you either get out or where we're done and some vets get out, and they do that. But they don't get out with a plan to get out just to save their marriage. And that happens, both, male and female vets they get out to see their marriage. And the next thing, you know, the grass isn't as green because those same problems that were happening in that relationship or still there now you've just piled on and confounded to that. Because now you have to find a way to support housing you have to find a way to pay for food. You're not getting that the anymore. You're not getting that DAS anymore. There's not a steady. I in the fifteenth patriot coming in anymore. Now, you're out there. You're looking for a job. And you know, you may not want to do like we said that bad job that you feel expense. You now you're adding onto that issue. That's part of that. That that transition. The nail may hit on one thing. Right. There is that. I'm gonna throw a number out there. And I tell you what I like to see what y'all's number is I'll go and tell you my number I, but I would say about that ratio is about eighty five percent. Fifteen percent fifteen percent of military personnel. That are getting out. I personally think I've got a game plan. I think the eighty five percent do not have game land. And they wanna go through transition. And during the transition, you know, when they when they are starting, you know, eight cap or they're starting their, you know, their tap or whatever when they're they're starting to say, well, what do I wanna do? But I I would literally say fifteen percents, and I definitely would like to hear what sugar and things about that. In Alex, also. Sherman had to jump off because they're meeting votes. But he didn't send me a message thinking guys for being a part of it. And he was felt very very happy about the conversation. Oh. Alex. Say as far as race. What would you think? I'll be honest with you. I think it's higher than I think ninety five percent don't have a game plan when they get out. They don't have the game plan. There's you break it down to several sub sects you have ones that actually came in like myself. I came into the army with a master's degree. But now I came in with a master's degree. I knew I could fall back on that. I knew that I'd be able to find something and I knew I was getting medically retired. So I knew that there was some sort of something that was going to be able to fall back on. So it wasn't technically a game plan, but I had fallback options. So I would say I fell into that category. You have the ones that come in and say, well, I had jobs before the army. I could just go back to that come to find out. They don't have a job there anymore that company down or so on so forth. There's say about ninety five percent if you wanna talk about actual game plan. This is what I'm gonna do. This is how it's going to happen. This is what I'm going to have to do to achieve that. And I'm ready to do that. I'd say about five percent of servicemembers have that. Agree. Considering EM people especially young men and women that might, you know, go in for one term and and overseas and come back and they get out, but they don't have no job ready when they get out the gree with him on net. If if we looking at the younger population. So you say dollars. Treated like college. I mean, look the during the normal, you know, term college education generally for years, so hit is in four years. You know, you're going, you know, you're getting your education with what you think is Dame plan on your way out. I mean, you, you know, you nine times out of ten you. Why nothing wasn't the same thing when you're going into the military, and you're doing that, you know, that's all year term, you know, or less you're going in. And it's the same thing. You just doing the same thing day in day out without even thinking now is that time. Okay. You wanna realis- or you wanna get out and young person's gonna go ahead and say, well, I'm gonna go ahead and get out. Now. What are you getting out to? Joe? And you gotta think when they get out how much time do they really have to get that game plan because between the time that you make that decision. I'm getting out and that time too when you're out is probably about thirty days thirty to sixty days of you, you know, unless you're getting medically retired. Or you were you made lined up within the first month of your investment that you this was not for you. Right. There's not enough to make game plan problem that is going on right now that a lot of people, you know, we talked about it briefly, Alex. It was either last week the week before. But one of the problems right now is that if you are non deployable for, you know, one year, then they're chapter, and you out, and there, no many people that are getting out right now that you know, I've seen it. I seen basically people six months I've seen people three weeks. And when I say three weeks. Okay. You're getting chaptered and automatically was signed everything else. You have three weeks to find out what you wanna do. And so, and I don't know about you. But how many of us were flagged because of our dental status Miss dental. Oh, we can't get in for another six months. We can't get in from another six months to get you back to two green status. But I'm so sorry. You're terms coming up on the one year non deployable here soon. Yeah. You know, God it'd be real late 'cause you missed your hearing. Right. There's you know, there's a lot of moving parts in that. But if you look at it from fifty thousand view, you know, they say that you're not deployable for one year in you're out. You know, all of us on this call, you know, that, you know, you want somebody if you want somebody chaptered or I think everybody knows this. You know, if you want somebody you walk through, and usually, you know, I've seen get none in two dates. I've done I've seen it in the day. So I've seen it too. I see that done in hours. All that basically as fast as they want. But then you've got other ones that the process may take more time, and you know, everything else. But again, I wanna give good soldiers like me who I I was getting going through the men board process. So going through that med board process from the second initiates, you've probably got three to six months before it's completed. And then and then add another month on for the cap, and then the pushing out for Shen. So you got about seven months there to make that Flynn. But you have those people who are also hopeful because of programs like co Ed they're going to do everything that they possibly can to try to stay in and instead of focusing their efforts on what their transition plan may be their focusing on trying to stay in the unrealistic expectation. That's that's a that's a fantastic statement. And could not say any better. You know, if you think about seven months just think about where you were seven months ago, and you can probably you'll probably say, well that seems like yesterday if you really don't all realistic. It really was yesterday almost seven months go by quick in a hurry. So, you know, it goes back to what I said for our goal is used to tell me, what do you wanna be when you grow up, meaning if your game plan together? And so, you know, when you start looking to seven months you start looking at one year, I goes by quick. And then you also have to look at the culture the military. I mean, you have to sergeant asking you what you wanted to be. When you grew up. I don't know about the rescue. But nothing changed from high school and college into the military. It was still a high school quick mentality. You had the people in your platoon that the sergeant lights, and he didn't like the people you got along with and you didn't get along with it was very much a high school and college mentality in the military. So you're asking people to grow when you're perpetuating cement, how do you have in high school? You're not pushing the real world onto these people. No. I mean, he hit is. I went in seventeen and I was on the delay at you program 'cause I finished school early. And I was like, okay fine. Let me go ahead and go in the one good thing for me was that my recruit or let me know exactly what I was gonna face. Okay. From from the first day. I got there to the day of graduates, and he let me know everything that I was going to go. So I'm thankful for that. But not everybody gets that. Okay. So hit is when you go in, you know, of course, you're going to be terrorized going in, you know, by your drill instructors, I was in the Marine Corps. So we get terrorized. That's it. You know, we we get off that bus, and you know, the decibels of them screaming ferocious, which some of us are not used to. You know, we wanna yell back. We back. We wanna go ahead. And and put our hands on the person for screening at us. We can't go through that. And so hit is. You know, it's sort of shot treatment that, you know, this, you know, this young man or woman has to go through. And it's like, okay. Do I want this? But what they don't understand because it's not told him that this is the prepare you for when you come out because this wins, you're going to go through this, and then city of screaming might not be there. But somebody being in your face because you're not, you know, you're not producing at the job or you came in late or whatever the case may be there's going to be folks that you have to be part of a team you have to you know, you could be an individual. But then, you know, being an individual only leases for civic things that I signed to you know, there's always an assignment, you know, there's all sorts of things, but a lot of these kids don't get the you know know, that they just jumping thinking, okay, I'm gonna I'm gonna go in and I'm gonna do my four years. So that way I could go ahead and get my college pay for great. That is you're going in. But what is your plan during that time and coming out the best way ever make it pass for first contact? Okay. Exactly. So so when you, you know, so I mean, going back to the whole transition piece, you know, that this this whole show is about you know, you go through all those steps. And then you come out then why? Now, I gotta go in and you know, figure out. Okay. What do I do some I some of my friends have gone in and gotten out, you know, within a year they're backing that back in there. Like, no, I can't do this. I gotta go back. And then, of course in recording on other service was gonna let him and you can't get back in right? Yeah. 'cause it's like, you know, what do I do? Now. I mean, I'm out here here. This is crazy. You know? I mean, I had a friend of mine that just came out, and he had not been home in the four years that you know, he was in the military because he spent most of his time overseas and so on and so forth came back. Everything changed. It was like. What the hell is this, you know, and he's freaked out. And he was like, no, no, no, no. And the went back in and he got himself stationed overseas 'cause he got used to being overseas. He didn't want to cause he didn't like the change. Like a future shot when you get out. You've been like me I've been in. I was in for twenty two and a half years. So coming out retiring, I'm like, okay. So what do I do? Now. How do I do resume? You know, how do I make it fit? You know, his scary is scary. And I even talked to some bit the day that have been out of the military and a lot of them there. In my age group, I'm sixty one and they'd be like, you know, I wish I was back in. It's kinda like. I think you said you don't even look that old. Yeah. Most. If you want. But you know, you so used to the military you used to doing things, you know, systematically, one way, and then when you come out, and you and you do family job in the world. And you'd be like in the world are they doing? I mean, they're not using thinking, you know, we always do strategy thinking when we in the military. I find it to be world doesn't do that. You know, I know, but you also have to think we're in the civilian world like during my degree, and it comes back to about growing up. I mean, you know, people who get right out of high school come into the military. I've had e six z sevens in their early to mid twenties. You know, I I I don't know about you who do, you know in your early to mid twenties who's who's gotten to the point where they're fully matured and turn out of necessity that you'd have to try to. But you've got e sixty seven's in their early to mid twenties, you know, and and feel young still young this exactly they they haven't fully, you know, they've probably lived more in life than most people. But the fact of the matter is they still haven't grown in life. And and imagine coming out and you have them coming out because they're in the east sixes sevens. And they're getting out of the military young. Whether it's due to injury, whether it's due to early separation, whether it's that, there's not enough slots and their Emma west whether they've been onto police to and you've got them coming out, and they don't really know much about life. They're still not grown up yet. And. I can say the same thing. I got out at twenty six medically retired. I hadn't grown up in life yet. You know? And and you see that a lot you expect these peop-, you know, you expect servicemembers to get out and and be fully functioning adults in society. Now, not trying to disparage are veteran basis, you know. But the thing is I think the expectations are set higher than the preparedness is. The weather separation for that expectation is just not there. And that's on every that you could possibly imagine getting out of the military. Whether it's writing a resume getting job going to college and getting figuring out what you wanna be, you know, whether it's going to a trade school, whether it's dealing with your relationships in a healthy manner. You know, we'll get the divorce rate in the military. Oh my God. You wanna you wanna see? What's a lot of people? Go wrong. I bet you every single person that phone call could raise their hand and say that they knew at least to servicemembers who got married just for the pay. And saw that marriage. Go down the tubes within a year. I saw in base training. You know, everybody falls in love in basic training. And then then, you know, they get married and there were for the pros. And then how you know. And then you have the vets who, you know, meet one girl, and they're like, oh, this is the girl for me. And you have everybody in their friends group saying, listen, man, you know, the chick for a month you met her at a strip club. I really don't think this view ice. You know, if I had if I had a dollar for every you know, servicemember, I knew that fell in love with the stripper. You know, I be rich man by now, I wouldn't have to be worrying about a transition plan. That. And I think the. The changes in the military throughout the year. I know when I can't I went in the military. I went in nineteen eighty one. And so everything every everything was a lot about did. You know, as us came a lot easier. You know, where the kids that were in basic in in the two thousand early two thousand they can hold up stress fans and stuff like that. We didn't have that we had to take, you know. I remember the only way hands on another soldier just to resolve issues office. Didn't there was not anything that went on in our platoon office other than to people who are angry at each other taking off their rank and beaten bloody hell out of each other. Committed wall-to-wall counseling. Uh-huh. Yeah. And you know, we're go to the bear pit and just use them combat as until you're tired, and you like each other again, you know, I mean, how many how many of us? How many of you know, had bay showers. You know? Now, you're seeing basic training us. It's have individual showers that you have to wait in line for because, you know, people got to offended by showering in a mass group. True. When I came now at bumpy and base. Our you know, we was in Hollywood that was in South Carolina. That was when they first built the brick Barrett. As opposed to taint, he'll where they had the Woodbury that didn't have air conditioning and summertime. The two big fans one on one in one on the other. But then it just like I'd say, you know, through the years they improved a lot of stuff, but they didn't give didn't get these young kids. The that thing type training that the old, you know, and I think the old school training with a lot better. Because it made you a lot strong-minded back. Then you know, and it benefit you a lot. You know, you taught you to think outside the box and stuff, you know, because you have to if you work for team, you know, you don't want to team going out there getting blown up for you. Seek outside of the box. You come together as a team and outside the bond how we going to do this. How are we gonna make it through this like earlier, I heard the man said about the marine training now? Now, I've been through the courts, and they're. Wanna co you know, where you gotta take this heavy heavy dummy across somewhere, you know. And so you come together as a team, you know, everybody input their ideas into how are we going to get across that water? You know, that's thinking, but through the years, they got so easy on these these young kids. So therefore their minds really not maturing. Likely should be, you know, from baby to grown man now from baby to grown woman, man. You know, they don't. One thing. One. One second Carol. We've got a few minutes left our show. We're coming up to eight minutes left on our show. I it's coming close to closing remarks, Carol I'm gonna let you finish saying it's real quick. But one thing on the closing. And I'd like to know probably what the hardest thing. For female veteran in transition was I'm gonna let you finish I Carol. And then we'll go to Vanessa. And we'll go to our our other female. I'm so sorry machine. We're gonna we're gonna go to Machil. And then we're gonna we're gonna end probably on that. I would like to know that six minutes. Go ahead. Yeah. The only thing I was gonna say is, you know, when you could really see the changes in the military win they start incorporating stress cards, and it sound like all of us. I'm gonna say old school. And I mean, I can't even magin given drill sorting Johnson. Who is who was my drill sergeant? And I might add she. Can't even imagine Haning. Her a stress card and basically saying you're stressing me out. Guys. I guarantee you she would've taken me behind the building. So that right there. I truly believe was turning point basically as far as the trains that wins from old school to more of a an HR mentality. So that's say on that. But I'm I'm interested would you asked on the other part out? What would you say was the hardest part of fans issuing is a female veteran. When I retired. When I came when I retired. I came out. I went through platform unemployment which I got penalized because my unit head and processed mighty fourteen within the time limited unemployment needed to go for two months. I didn't receive any any kind of unemployment, and it was a struggle. You know, because I had to pay rent didn't have food had to go to Salvation Army had children a couple of kids younger, then and it was hard. It was hard. It was like there was no help out there for me whichever way. I win. It wasn't no help for me. You know? And that was one of the whole back with unemployment penalizing, not only myself, but I heard of they got penalize. Because they didn't turn it to fourteen in present a copy to unemployment in the time limit that they want it. But it wasn't their fault. It was the unit. Because they units that was overseas that they were working with in my case Matt union was working with another unit. You know, and they were I'm back. So I was on the back burner. You know? So I got penalized with two months because of the. Down here that they didn't care. You know, they didn't they didn't care that I had to pay rent. They couldn't give me on me any account if I. That was my hardest part. Vanessa. Okay. So you gotta understand when I got out. I was still overseas. I was still in Germany. I was there until the next year when we came back. Stateside, my military experiences training and certifications did not translate to the civilian world was not acceptable. So I was told you wanna go into the field that you were working in before you have to start all over. Not translatable. I'd say that was probably the biggest blow when I got back. Stateside. Well, see guys talked about a lot of wonderful things today. We talked about a lot of the plagues that we have transitioning with our military veterans and we've also come up with solutions. They're not only help change that process to help veterans that are going through it. And I think that's what invetory owes about is. We talk about these things because if nobody's talking about them. Nothing's getting done ways. It's been a pleasure as co host. I'm gonna turn it back to Perry right now. So he can give us our closing. I'd like to say thank you to everybody who's been on the show today and everybody who's been listening in one last time. Happy birthday, Ron Bottomley. That's guys again. I appreciate you taking the time tonight. You know, we could not do this without our supporters. Thank you so much to that's Georgia, and Florida and California, and that's Arkansas. And of course, am Tennessee for making a possible. Thank you, all the correspondences who all throughout the week, finding news articles and things to share. And we cannot do this without you guys. So look forward the next week. I got a couple of guests that I'm going to be bringing on with different topics. I don't know if we we might discuss this a little bit. But outside of that we'll have to see what happens, but thank you guys for joining Emmett's radio tonight show number seventy nine it's Tober ninth twenty eighteen and I just want to end with a word of prayer father. God thank you so much for the show. Thank you for the technology. Thank you for the funds that make it possible. Prayed that the words that we talk here tonight. We'll be encouraging for those listening, and I just thank you. So much for all that you and I love you. And I asked these things in Christ's name, Amen guys until next time. Thank you so much love. Yeah. Be good. If you need anything in order to find us on MB radio, Email dot com. And we will see you guys next week at the same time seven PM, central standard behalf of all the correspondences and everyone with them. That's radio. We will see you soon. Thank you so much. What if every time you went out you could cash in now with the Capital One saver card? You're four percent cashback on ninety and entertainment like their first taste of welcome. Only. And four percent cash back when you take your kids to the museum for the first time. No matter your reason for going out. Now, you have four more introducing the new saver card from Capital One four percent on dining and four percents on entertainment. What's in your wallet terms? Apply capital. One Bank USAA.

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Wings and Things - Molecules & Shit #55

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2:08:31 hr | Last month

Wings and Things - Molecules & Shit #55

"Turned good afternoon. Good morning good evening. Whatever you're listening to this this is molecules and shit and this is a science podcast. I'm your co host peaking at around on twitter. And i'm joined by your host cookie negra doctor all right so how was your week. I i've already had three or four catastrophes on my new job so okay new job. New problems all right. That's basically summary of your week. Yes we're excited today because we have a guest we've got gotta guest all right. We'll let the people know who were you. And where are you from. This is this is Mark carter living in chattanooga tennessee. I own a company called mc squared and we work with a bunch of different folks on on startups in really in the biotechnology area. Right helping develop test and things like that. But i've got a long and sorted micro biology background that goes anywhere from being a clinical and public health microbiologist. All the way to be in a ceo of a lab company and a couple of other stops in between so. Yeah now. i'm kinda kinda doing my own thing again and looking forward to having this conversation all right so tell me again. The focus of your company is technology. It's really early stage technology development. So this goes for folks. Were making diagnostics. Basically for Bacteria viruses things like that of or any or any type of technology that goes along to capture them. Identify them anything that goes with the process of getting to the point of diagnosis or identifying an organism. We we've worked on stuff like that. Okay so your primary customers will be like hospitals and other labs right other. Labs in lava companies develop diagnostics. I have a couple that i work with now that that have worked worked to develop certain types of diagnostics both molecular or mean a logical tests. And things like that you know so yeah you name it. Anybody who uses a test for something. That's going to be diagnostic whether it's microbiology or or now working on some stuff now that it's pretty cool too but yeah anything goes along like that. It's nice it's kind of fun and what he means by diagnostics. Is these are the tests that you go to your doctor. And you get When they're trying to identify what your infection is exactly right exactly right. Okay and so do you sell like what. What does that entail. The actual sales the chemical region that you sell. Is it like a kid like what exactly does that. I saw the craziness of my mind. My my clients can actually so It could be kids. That could be reagents a lot of times. The end result is a kit Any of the development of anything that goes into that kid is what we help with. And so are you got. Oh go ahead. Oh i was gonna say. Yeah and we've i mean we've we've helped develop diagnostics that have been launched and the clinical and in clinical space. We've helped with diagnostics. That work in the food space Some personal care in pharma products too. So it's pretty diverse but it's fun that's kind of fun side of being being microbiology's you can you know they show up everywhere and you show up everywhere and so do you also work on building or developing these new kids or news. Kind of iterating on what's out there making better like what's kind of the focus. Oh yeah we work on any of the things you said. We were from the ground up fry so so mike have an idea. And being a what we kind of call an alpha stage of development where they've got a concept and they want to run it through we can help them develop anywhere from the air or we do iterations of a of an existing test to move and how has business been during these interesting times. What amazingly of. It's been really good. I i think the thing that that you find out. Is you know when you look at it. And thinking about covert for instance. Everybody wants to talk about. How can you do something faster. Easier better you know. What's the test reliability and you've got a lot of people that do that are doing things anywhere from trying to figure out. You know the proper collection devices. I've seen. I've seen companies. Now start to offer auditing and monitoring processes for the environment right dacoven and you know baffles me a little bit but still nonetheless. It's something that some people want so they're willing to Willing to help out and put them in place right and development for that so the mentality for. That's a little bit different than when you're talking about taking sample from human now from talking about okay. I got validate for doing this on surfaces from doing errands whole lot of other parameters. You have to think about tell. Don't gets excuse me to help get a test In place and are you finding like you said businesses good. Are you finding more volume from the same customers or just a lot more customers a lot. It's really both right. People who want to interrupt and say okay. I've had this technology sitting here for a while. Can it be applied to this I think if you think about even to the point of Fda's talking about the pooling tests. Now where a the matrix for the tests would be saliva right and you can put five tests together and screen. I'm in the process for that because we work on sampling plans and the statistical basis for what you're doing and the reliability and all that but i would say it's both actually i think both of them people people are looking at a lot of ways to do you know kind of what's been done traditionally for a while or either i'll say the methods of the kind of been in the same place for about twenty years and now you're getting to push to really see some changes And do you find so early on. It seemed like it was a lot of chaos around one. Should we be testing. More dewey tests. Who's funding the testing. Do we need to test. Everyone do just need to test people who are sick. Have you had to kind of like educate your new customers or is that part of what your business does as well or are you just trying to supply what they're asking for. Now we've done. We've done a little bit of both And i think i think the coolest thing about it is. We've spent time with folks who like okay. I've got a test. I wanna validated right. And it's like okay to validate it. We're going need x. Y. and z. Right and then you have to understand how that test is going to work in general population with with different rates of people being sick right or understanding. What's the target. You're going present pick for your test. Is it going to be an antibody is going to be aren. A what's it gonna be and that's that that That's turned out to be kind of kind of where we spent a good time. Educating folks right because then if you go to a field test right you can get a ton of samples in the lab and you say okay it works. It works fine. And then when you finally get to working with samples that come from people will you start to see a little more variability right. I think one of the things that happened at first with some of the tests and they were talking about these tests aren't reliable where you found out Through the process that you know maybe some of the sampling techniques. Y'all consistent right because if somebody says oh you need to take a swab. While you're not giving instructions on kate i take. The swab is swab both nostrils. I have to go up so far into the nasal passage right if somebody's gonna swirl it around and literally if you're doing a ton of work you kind of find some sampling variation if it's just not trained really well right if you don't train people really well and if the instructions aren't really clear i can handle of people swab and say. Take a swab and it could come back on multiple you know. They would have multiple different techniques for taking that swab Okay so two questions about that so one just for people who have no background Can you briefly explain. What is validation. Test validation be so test. Validation is the way that you get an idea of how the the The test is going to work in the given in a given population. So you actually go back and think of it as lab experiment. That's designed to push the limits of the test and you find out how it performs right and then you would want to take a large a good large number of samples to be able to say. Hey we've done enough. Statistically to to be able to just describe the performance of the test. And that's validation part of it right Once you get those parameters set and you move something into into into the market space. I mean. I've rarely ever seen test move into the market space where he didn't see something that varied from what you saw and their validation data right And and that's simply because of the variation in samples that you get the variation in the way the techniques have taken them and real world stuff is always going to vary a little bit from what like your strict performance criteria. Might have been in your in your validation process but it doesn't make a test unreliable. It's just what you see when you start looking at a natural population but yes so it's it's the process of making sure that the test You you know how the test performs right given with a given set of samples you know. It's like it's like if i if i were to go say hey you know. I think the sun comes up in the east every morning right. Yeah and and so. Every morning i get up. And i look and it's in the same spot right then you get to a point okay. I i know that you know the sun rise in the east now. I can verify that. I can get up to thirty days later. I can get up and check and say oh yeah it's still there and that's kind of the verification process. You find a good bit with with test you where you know. They have controls and things like that. But in general. That's what a validation as it is. The process of saying this is how this test performs under these conditions is the scientific process of doing that. Okay so this actually feed right into one of the stories that we had to discuss today. So i'm gonna just intro. This story real quick. I want to get your thoughts on it. Okay so we're gonna talk about the. Fda opens the door to rapid at home testing for covid nineteen so the food and drug administration on wednesday opened the door to cove in nineteen testing. That could be fast cheap and handled entirely at home. If companies don't find the rules too burdensome routine screening of people who don't know they have covid nineteen could transform the fight against the disease. These types of tests will be a game changer in our fight against covid nineteen it will be crucial as the nation. Looks toward reopening fda commissioner. Dr steven hahn said in a statement. Okay so so far. The fda hasn't allowed anyone to sell tests for at home use both just generally. What are your thoughts on that. I just heard you talk about how the test is. Actually conducted can impact the reliability of it. So what do you think this. Is this a good idea as a good. It's it's it's i would say this it's a. It's a good idea because from surveillance standpoint right for us to get an idea of really kind of what. What are the numbers in the population in general You need to take a lot of you need to do a lot of testing especially with something like like covert And and what i would say is i think if the fda handles that correctly think of all the other at home tests that we already have You know you can. And even if it's a matter of that. I take the test but i send that diagnostic off somewhere else to be read. We don't quite know the the format i mean. Test interpretation has to be clear right if it's going to be a pure atom test where the user applies the tests themselves and they interpret the results like a pregnancy lost exactly took it took took the words right out of my mouth alaw pregnancy test right then. Then that's that's you just have to make sure that whatever you do to make sure people are going to read it And then have what are the. What are the things you need to do. After it in a way to report it right. Right so i i'm i'm in favor of that and i think it's a good thing too if you're just talking about you know disease surveillance. Yeah it's it's. It's good. Because i think the more we go into this epidemic more we find out there are people who either have been exposed as we're going to say and that's the other thing about what type of test would it be. Would it be antibody based test to say. Hey you've been exposed to covid you know As opposed to one of the molecular tests that you see that says okay not only. Have you been exposed where we're saying that we can find Evidence of the virus in your body Right so that's that's the two differences between the two but you know. I don't think any problem with that. If we're going to really say and started administering it and san okay you know to understand the the level of you know a of infection and then be understand. You know the things that we can ask people to do if they test positive you know. I think it's a good idea. So i want to ask both of you. This question. so given the The type of virus. It is what you know about Testing that's know technology. that's available. What do you think likely people are going to be asked to do for an at home test would. What's that testing process. Likely going to look like for your average consumer citizens. Well okay so first of all. I think it is likely to be an antibody test. Those are going to be much easier to do. I can't even imagine how you do. Nucleic acid test at home. Why not just for us. Who s newbies thermal cycler and need reagents like. It's it's it's not gonna work But antibody tests. There's a lot more work put in on the front end and then just like a pregnancy test to go pee on the stick and you look for lying to show up so it's gonna have to be one of those. My guess is this is not going to be happening rapidly. Because the fda said okay go ahead and market all these antibody tests and most of them weren't worth a damn right so it'll be a while there are a bunch of them no names to call it. They were just garbage right. You might as well you might as well to flip a coin. Literally were are yeah and literally literally they they would have been like. You know you've been just good off very close to the same probabilities of diagnosis by flipping a coin. And especially if you didn't have symptoms. That's the crazy thing at least had some symptoms maybe flipping a coin would be a little less A little less reliable. But yeah like like. Kim said it's just it's it's nuts but i think the main thing get the information to know that which was like. Oh this was bad. What's bad because You know it never got it. Never anything that went through the fast part of the validation right Indication that it works and then it just gets sometimes. It's just a very ability and how how the house run but some of them are just bad by design. You know thing to do. That's the question. I was asking so cookie when you were talking. I was that just an example with this has actually likely be on a stick for your antibody tests. Stick is probably going to be swab. Your mouth which i'm also not so happy about i've heard saliva tests are getting better but i really still think you need to stick the slob up your nose. It's almost like you're going to need a nasal got true nasal fringe slob. Where you know you're gonna you're gonna you're gonna cry a little bit you know when when it goes up in there but it's that's the best sampling thing but some of the techniques have seen lately. I think i think as long as people are trained well to go far enough up there. They you've got some reliable. And i think that was my first thought. Is that if people are so hard headed about wearing masks. How likely that they're going to take the time to properly do a swab or whatever other sample collection technique. The instruction say even. If there's a youtube. I i just people seem so blase about it. I don't trust them to take a beat like laboratory minded in that moment and take a proper full sample and take care not to touch any other surface with the soi or drop the swab. It's the bag or whatever so that to mean my thought process. Just as a lame. Is this a horrible idea. Because no one's going to do it right. That's why can't really be a swab. But a my my worry is that if they see a positive result they won't contact anybody right. That's what i'm worried about two or they'll just you know they'll take what they think is appropriate action like oh i don't have any symptoms. Stay home for three days. And i'm sure it'll be fine now. You know everyone is so we've passed the window. I think psychologically where people are scared of it and other just annoyed by it. You know what i mean. So the the attitudes have shifted. I think people think you know only you can only like put human beings under stress for so long before they start to revolt. It's always kinda crazy because it's like okay You know. I take take the the nineteen eighteen spanish flu epidemics always use as an example with this right and i'm like but nobody in one thousand nine hundred eighteen could be pounded by social media constantly by news reports constantly. Right that that you know. Oh there's you know there's a daily body counter daily illness count and that's that's like to me. I'm just being that's like psychological warfare on people you know when you're just put into that type of information being thrown at you daily and talked about on news shows and i mean i don't think human beings were made to absorb that where they are. I think you're exactly right at some point people. I is nothing. I can do right If frustrated you know It's not. It's not in my part of the country. I i don't know anybody that's sick and i take it really seriously. I mean i take it seriously. Because i guess i'm just being a microbiologist but i take it seriously i mean i have. I have a really good friend who lost his mom and his dad within two months of each other to this week's and so so it's not a joke There's still a lot to learn about it. But i think people are exactly right. Jobs are getting fatigued. And at some point you get fatigued and then you get revolt. Npr why you see people kind of doing some of the things doing. Yeah and i. I talk about it almost every week on this show. Sound like a broken record but i really feel like march. You had a thirty day window to get everyone to act right. I think everyone had the ban with to behave and stay home. Where mass for about thirty days and then the longer we move from that thirty days the less and less people were taking it seriously are really adhering to any of these. You know these requirements so this has been a really really painful civic lesson. I love to hear your opinion on this right. So i i look at it this way when once you got the march and this is kind of the difference in regions in the country to if you look at some of the epidemiological data and i give or take how people were counting cases or whatever was going on right. And everybody's like well you know. We're going to flatten the curve. And i always tell people if you're squishy balloon. The balloon doesn't lose any area. You know there's still as much volume in the balloon. It's just it's flatter and it gets longer whatever else kind of what we did when we wanted to flatten the curve. If you remember kind of the initial talks of it well if you think about an and again this is speculation if you look of how. The virus spread in the country It was action to say. Hey man you know you kind of look like wow. You know the new york area where you figure. It's a lot of international travel coming in there. There's a lot of international travel coming into the west coast right seattle other places up portland Atlanta right and so the hot spot in atlantic hotspot in south became atlanta from hotspot in the northeast became new york. I right And just speculation about and you look at what's happening now with the southern states and i think again like love to hear somebody else's opinion on this look. I said maybe what happens lockdown when there weren't a lot of cases here which is what you're supposed to do and and we came contact foot off the gas but i think we delayed the inevitable of kind of what you're seeing now with the growth of an explosion of cases in the southeast. You also locked people down and like old late march i think is when the first one started down south kind of where i am and literally peel people who've been doing outside activities for months for like a month already months. Almost you know because kids start kids start doing baseball and february or so and things like pat. And if you're in florida you never stop very rarely. Does it get not warm enough to do something outside. Even here where i am. So now you're taking people in san is very nice outside. It's beautiful but go in the house and stay for the next two months You know and then come back outside when it's blazing hot so i mean there's all kinds of stuff that's gone on. This is one of the most interesting things at least for me. Scientifically that i've seen in my career. You know. I talked to my dad. My dad says he's never seen something like this you know. And he's seventy five in when you think about it in our lifetimes in the last century. We've never seen anything like this. Wow what do you think coaching. Perhaps what what we should have done is move the lockdown so until you started seeing a bunch of cases you probably shouldn't have locked down the south because that's why everybody seems to be so resistant. Now they've been in the house for months. I'm not wearing a mask. And you know with case numbers that are relatively low that were excuse me except for like atlanta and you saw growth and i kind of look look at these numbers just to get a feel for it i see. Johns hopkins has a great dashboard. Yeah it does and and literally. It's like man you just seeing stuff. That's not moving not moving. Not moving you know then epidemiological side right. You know eventually. it's gotta go right. You're like eventually. This is not going to stay this way. It's going to at a really low rate for a long long long time or there's gotta be some places that are highly populated where pops off and i think. That's i've never seen you if you think about what. You're todd and uvira classes ask. that's kind of it. That's how viruses were one like this one. I think the problem is. I think first of all it became politicized so we had some regions where they probably should have a go ahead. Oh no i said yeah. Oh yeah so. I think there are some situations where they probably some region should have locked down but they were resistant to it. Because of political reasons and mass means that you're against the president blah blah blah. But i think also i think Some of the some of these regions with these states some of these cities i think they're equally aware of how mobile their population is. So like you said. Atlanta was a hot spot but a lot of people who work or travel or even living in atlanta aren't from atlanta so as soon as you start shutting things down in atlanta. They're either to go home and stay at mom's place they're gonna go back to whatever town they were at or i never lived in atlanta. Anyway i just worked there so those even if you can't really contain the cases like in a city basis like that we're going to the statewide basis new york especially newark is full transplants. And as soon as you start closing down the fun things those people start going back home. I'm going to fly back to my dad's house and you know oklahoma or wherever wherever they're from and it started spreading that way as well and i think that's why the numbers were so low for so long and then eventually it exploded as soon as they could people felt like they could get a plane out of new york or train out of new york they did and it just carried it with him. That's funny that you said that. 'cause i know somebody that i talked to. That owns owns a house down in the keys. But he's a new yorker and literally he's like we haven't been back to new york since you know such and such a date right and and i think we had populations like that. That people can get away. I questioned like i said again what schools did especially the universities. You know. i'm like you take people that are probably at some of the lowest risk and disperse them out all over everywhere. Were there's issues right. Yeah and so you know. I i had one son come from come coming from east tennessee state university at another son coming from the university of miami right and and literally. You're thinking okay now and that was my dispersing people basically now shot gunning people who are either. They're healthy and they're gonna go somewhere where they might get it right right or because you see. Miami has a ton of kids from new york and new jersey time But i just it's always. It's always always always interesting to watch. And there's other data mixed in there that you kind of have to play with deanna. Get the full picture. I think the other thing is capacity. I think some of these universities are like we have a little baby health unit. We are not prepared to have thirty forty six students a day. Come in and try to get treatment or the local hospital down. The street is not prepared for our entire university population that start streaming in there so i think that was a concern to. We're like yeah we we stay open most likely. These kids are at lower risk than if we just like you said shooting the saint louis and New york and all over the country but at the same time these kids are not likely to behave come on eighteen and nineteen year olds are going to go somewhere. Go to a bar. Someone at that bar might have come front of those places and now it's all over campus. We don't have the capacity. I think the fear now. And i'm grown exactly exactly but but yeah it's crazy. It's crazy i just like i said i spend. This is from a learning experience for. I think for all of us in this field. This is really really interesting time right and then you get. Here's the thing though. We talked about social media little earlier. I mean look at how much misinformation goes kicked around by by the fact that again everybody has a voice and we can kick it all over everywhere. Instantly you know It's not a just misinformation. There's also a bias towards misinformation. It seems like because people it seems like they glommed onto the misinformation more than the actual information. it's stickier. It seems fast which is kind of the dangerous part just think folks like affirmation so they find the stuff that fits what they wanna believe right and that's the things you can't have an open debate. It's not like it's not like you know bunch bunch of scientists or anybody else sitting around the table saying here's certain facts right Here's certain facts and and this is what we're going to talk about and we can debate them right now. It's like no no look at this. This fits exactly what i was saying. You go neil degrasse. Tyson's like one of my favorite people. I was reading his book. Let's turn astrophysicists. One of he's he's got a very sharp wit and a way of going about like talking people through those types of conversations. I i think it's it's i mean the guys you know frigging genius anyway but literally You know to have to see the conversations and not be able to talk logically and losing that sense of you know what's real information. What isn't what's been just kinda pumped out for the sake of of Of creating ish. Right thing i the last thing i said i told somebody says it. I never thought that we would politicize public health. You know i mean but we have been doing. That wasn't What was her name. Jocelyn elders wanted to like do Sexual education and that was politicized so hiv aids. I i mean we've been politicizing. Public health for a while acted this. This is just the. I feel like an extreme outcome of that. The seeds of it were there the babies the babies were. They're they're grown now. Yes exactly speaking of missing from speaking of misinformation. This is actually leading to the other story. We had stella emmanuel had. Had you heard of this woman before last week ever heard her name never okay. So facebook and twitter have taken down the viral video in which she appears saying it violates their policies about misinformation but not before it was tweeted by the president and one of his sons. So dr emmanuel is a christian pastor who is also a christian pastor. She is a doctor. I believe i haven't seen information to the contrary. She is a doctor where she got her doctorate but her md but yes she is a doctor and stock licensed to practice. I think in texas. Yes so she gave a speech on the steps of the. Us supreme court in washington captured on video by right wing website breitbart. They just happened to be there along along with other medics from a group called america's frontline doctors. She said that americans were being denied. Potential cure for covid nineteen. Nobody needs to get sick. This virus has a cure. It is called hydroxy hydroxychloroquine chloroquine. I have treated over three hundred and fifty patients and not had one. Death said dr manual thought. She's a pediatrician. Yeah yeah right so she. She treated three hundred fifty kids now. I'll believer you. Don't think so why. Why not why isn't it possible. She's given three hundred and fifty doses of this medication and not knowing what maybe she did and she gave the people who might not have ever been sick in the first place and she goes. they're cured. oh okay good. That's really good. You know true. She said i have treated. She didn't say. I have given it to people with covid suffering from covid or near death and then they got cured. She just said. I didn't have a death i. That's that's why they have. These things called clinical trials that we actually use data data and not anecdotal anecdotal evidence. Speaking speaking of trial despite some early studies raising hopes that hydroxychloroquine could be used as a cure for coronavirus one subsequent larger scale. Trial has shown it is not effective as a treatment and the world health organization has halted its trials saying it doesn't reduce death rates in patients corona virus. The only question. I have that right so now i'm going to be a flying. The ornament right is where is where. I'm reading stuff where it says you know. The people were already hospitalized. And that's where they did some of the work. I the only thing i would want to understand is like as prophylaxis help right. I mean i didn't know studies to tell. Yeah kimsey that's where i'm like. All right you blasting you say it doesn't work but if there's been no studies to eliminate with what the problem the possibilities are and trust me. I don't one way or another. I don't wanna see people die from it. The other thing is i think drugs have to be used safely ineffectively but for me for the intended use right because we know hydroxy corcoran's been used safely for people with certain things for a long time for malaria primarily miller and some other things that people with lupus. Okay that and so. I mean i'm not i'm not so i guess question for kim would ethical. Trial looked like to test the prophylactic properties of hydroxychloroquine win. Because i would think as a laming you'd have to heart is the problem. Yeah because i'm like you have to give them hydroxy. And then exposed them to that is the only way you can fulfil cokes postulates and who is going to sign up for that eight me. Ain't me start there. Yeah so. I i think the real issue is as the fda has been doing over this pandemic is. They're throwing everything at the wall so while they wait for people to to do these these studies. They're like okay. it's an emergency use. The studies come out and go. It doesn't work all right. Well we're revoking emergency use Just that's like saying well. Just take an aspirin. I mean it's been safe before but if it doesn't work with the pope right right. Yeah i think that they're the the real question. I think people have been testing or using the trial information for like. Is it safe to use. Because i think in their mind if it's safe to us why not try it. And i think that's what the studies have come out with. And that's why they've halted. Some of these trials is like well. Then it's not worth it the risk. Yeah the first small study said. Oh this is not good. it's it. it's we've got cardiac problems with that. Was one of the first things they said before the big study. So it's not like they didn't know this was coming but again you have a lot of people just say do something. Something that doesn't work is not better. Well let's hear a bit. More about dr emmanuel so dr emmanuel has insisted that taking hydroxychloroquine is not harmful because it is widely taken in her home country of cameroon where malaria is endemic. Now here's a little background on her. Wait each just say. Malaria calvin Not this as she saying it's not harmful that's all she saying. In that statement she says it's hydroxy corinth. Quinn is not harmful because it is widely taken in cameroon. I mean i'm just telling you what the doctor said. Let's talk a bit more about this. Dr born in one thousand sixty five dr emmanuel graduated with a medical degree from the university of calabar in neighboring nigeria and has a valid doctor's license according to the website of the texas medical board. So there you go. That's where she got her degree. She has an opinion and she's entitled to it. That's the beauty of america right here. Full on what you say because there's consequences for stuff. You could say anything you want but there's consequences for and she's got to be careful because what she's doing is like saying. Hey this works. This works this works. When i use it and i've even said well i mean you gotta find out so you use it right in the ethical thing kim brought up. I absolutely agree with i. Just i just. I think what she did. The other day you know is is kind of like you can't call it here. Well i think this is. This is the thing lay. People may not be aware over. Some people may not be aware of like for example. I worked for the federal government. Now i can say whatever i want on this microphone to my heart's content. I could just spout a penny after painting about whatever topic. I would like but as soon as i state my role or position in the government and then state and opinion related to that role now. I'm have ethical violations. So it's not that she can say whatever wants about hydroxy hydroxychloroquine or have an opinion about it but she stood in a lab coat in front of the supreme court. So she's using the power of her md to stay in opinion. That's where the ethical violation supreme court over the photo auto come on makes no sense. I mean it looks. It looks perfect. It looks like you know. It looks authoritative. that's all it is. What is the supreme court got to do with kobe. Like if they really wanted to do that why didn't they stand in front of nih. Why didn't they stand arrive. Fda why didn't they stand in front of the centers for medicare and medicaid. It doesn't seem like they. They don't even have sense enough to pick the right backdrop this. This is a country where people wear masks with holes. Because it's hard to breathe. Yeah but they're not. They're not doctors who were supposed to better. We're supposed to these people because they're nbc's right. Yeah you know how. I feel about expertise. I know we talk about it all the time and and this and this like i said so. She wears two hats. Because that's the problem. So she's also a pastor and founder of the firepower ministries in houston platform. She has used to promote other conspiracies about the medical profession and her sermons are available on youtube in case you would like to know. Thank you five years ago. She alleged that alien. Dna was being used in medical treatments and that scientists were cooking up a vaccine to prevent people from being religious. Now she saying that as the with pastor hat on or medical coat on. i don't know it's on mishmash. She also claims Medical condition some medical conditions on witches and demons. She says that having sex with which is our demons in the dream world can lead to certain conditions like in dimitrius experience. Every time i hear somebody preach on which is poverty tells you hear people preach about which is fairly. I won't say fairly often. But it's been a couple of times. I mean sarah palin minister who was also an african minister was talking about witchcraft. Like it's a thing. I i never heard. It comes straight from it. If you think about it. Right arrears now witchcraft. Though it's not it's not. you're exactly right it is not. I'll take that back. it's not witchcraft. But i'm yeah witches and demons. I'm like okay. I you know no offense to anybody but that aligned with the medical side of it and everything else i. It doesn't go together go together. I've never done a controlled study on demons. I swear that. I run into some some places i've been but and i think that's where the internet can be confusing because here you have someone in a lab coat leaving those two concepts together. She's leaving the medicine and about vaccines and she's weaving that together with her demon which talk. I've had some pretty bad boyfriends. But i wouldn't see any of them. Were really deeming. I need to see the trial on that. I need this data. Any confirmation of their non demon status and a control. But i need you to read how she explains how people have sex with people in a in a dream world because so they. She says that they turn into a woman. That's the demon and then they sleep with the man and collect his sperm. Then they turn into the man and they sleep with the man and deposit the sperm the sperm and reproduce more of themselves. She said in twenty thirteen so she's got a whole she she's hit the trifecta so people are not supposed to be having sex and then the women's sleep with the men and then the men sleep with like she's got everything covered. This is just failed. All this is veiled homophobia to me. This is nothing but veiled homophobia. We'll see doesn't mention gay people i guess is. That's the her seven failed about to drop right. She's already danced the other six go. Yeah this is hanging on by a thread by thread. i'll still think she can pray away. Generational curse that is transmitted through the placenta. Ooh she's scary but she has a doctor and a medical license now. I'm who i am. Mmediately think about. I think about the parent in texas who recognizes their daughters doctor on. Tv what do you do when her next appointment comes up. You take your house somewhere else. I worry about what has she given my child or said to my child. When i'm not there. Yeah i don't know how many children go to the pediatrician. And nobody's there with them. I think when a certain age before he stopped coming in. Yeah but you're not a teenager either. Like i think i i had a an exam by myself and i was like eleven or twelve at that at that point. But i'm just saying you know i'd be oh baby dr so and so's office closed more. We can't go to either a step ahead. she died. I don sorry she's dead. It's really sad but we have to find you a whole new dark misinformation at the story. I don't know she's dead. Maybe they found roaches. All in there they did. We got we got. We can't go back. In a more demon roach demon roaches as be being wants in florida. They fly But yeah we were just talking about misinformation and here. She is twitter. Had to intervene in twitter hates intervening. You know yeah it has to be so agreed is that they're just like you know what's down. Facebook took her. yeah and she enough. The weird thing is the imagery. it's so strange. Because she's flanked by A white female doctor into white male doctors. I don't know if they gave a speech as well. But it's like the subtle sort of adding authority to hers. We'll weird zoeller. She was the craziest one. And that's who gets the press right Right yes i just like this is why doesn't get the press does it sure does. But that's why people like sometimes they're like oh just google it. We have google Careful there slowdown. don't just google anything doesn't he. Like fairly doesn't even exist. So it i. I know they got more donations today or whatever day she released this. Yeah i'm sure she did. But like this america frontline doctors it. You know it's an astroturf group. The tea party like they didn't exist like they got their website a week before this They don't exist. Yeah and that's that's the thing though about how you can accelerate craziness or just like call craziest. Though i said it already It's up there with her misinformation up. Yeah missing from have misinformation circulate like that and i. Here's my thing and it's kinda cool that i'd like to ask you say i've i've made a point of trying to work really hard to to promote science literate literacy and go on and at a certain point i'm like when when we when you can't trust and there's there's trust me it's like anything else you know people say there's bad cops out there this bad scientists dot there and and but to be able to critically think and look at things right and not to say just because it was on the internet that makes it true You know i. I think that's where that level of critical thinking is what i think. We were falling short on with like at at the level of kids coming out of school. Because they're being here. We go into education. Themed won't stay on long. I promise it leads into this that we have now. We can't take information and say okay. Let me throw some stones at it to see if it passes any kind of sniff test to say okay. Maybe this is true right and and and we're willing to turn it over to you know just just up. They set it on the internet gonna white coat. She's doctor. it's gotta be right. Well like you said i don't so i take a slightly different approach to it. My approach has been evolving for for years. But i'm starting to think that It's not so much. The critical thinking is lacking. I think it's been sacrificed. So i think a lot. There's a large number of people who are wedded to an ideology where the data is not on their side. So they they forced this selectivity upon the data that they listened to. And that's why you'll see. Look he's got a lab coat and she's to believes not because they don't have any critical thinking skills or they're dumb. I think it's very. It's if it's not consciously intended it's it's it's it's consciously intended. They mean that. I know that. I believe these things in the numbers and data are not in my favorite. I see a lot of things contrary to it. But it's part of my identity now. So i have to discount the things and accept these things. You're you're you're spot on on that. That's like something that i read somewhere else summer. Saying that it's like you. You get data form the like i said the opinion that supports your belief and that is the wrong kind of way to go about. I'm obsessed wrong but it's what what people do a human thing right. So so i i don't i don't disagree with that at all man. I think you're you're kinda dead on on that you know we. We all kind of have a bias of doing that at times. Right we all have we all have that in in a little bit and It just doesn't usually come up things that are as consequential as a health crisis usually. It's around like what type of food you like well. I don't like chinese food. And then like what data do you have the support that well you know this one time or look at the study. Chinese food doesn't taste as good. You know is things that don't matter but when it's something that matters we like to think that oh people will put that aside in the listen to you. Know the numbers but that is not the case. That is not the case. So i think it's kinda crazy 'cause i think the most controversial thing that goes along with that now and i mean to me after looking at the whole span of we got vaccine development going on You've got all these other physical type orders in place but the biggest thing that's popping up right now it's like how the going back to school thing especially with elementary age Elementary age students knows kids. And i mean the teachers have to feel safe going back into that. That situation and you know the kids for the most part are gonna follow what you add. What they're what they're asked to do for the most part. I still think it's going to be hard to get six years. Where mask all day. Yup you know and and now again it goes back. Is that a really high risk population. No it that's the biggest quagmire. I think we're running into now is now after pulling kids out of school you know march or so or like some people. Go pull pull kids out of school to april and figuring out a way to get them back into school. I m my fears. We lose a whole year of education for kids. And i wanna see you know. African american kids or any other kids are. Let's just say kids who are disadvantaged. Right who don't have a good system for doing things at home to to fall farther behind in school and they may have already. And i think it's a consequence of this of the pandemic. Did we just have not got through well Because i think we keep. Here's here's that hope. Hope springs eternal type thing. Is that if you keep going on. We're going to have a vaccine gonna vaccine memorized okay. We'll wait for vaccine. We may never have a vaccine so at some point. You have to have that not a contingency with a parallel path of well. How do we live with this until we get a vaccine right and it doesn't mean that you just have to not come out of your house for another two years and that's unacceptable. But i i think that's what's what we're we're at a point now. You talked about tipping earlier. People are like okay. i'm tired. I'm getting tired of this. Now we're really going to see where where stuff hits the fan right here because now you're saying okay we're gonna make these kids. Were take these kids and go back. And i've seen so many varied plans for getting kids back in school that it's that it's unreal. It is unreal. So kim have you read anything. Or what are your thoughts on. We talked about a before but lots of things are changing constantly with. What are your thoughts on opening schools. I'm honestly stuck. It's always my thought to air towards safety but at this point you know i mean. There's a reason why i quit a job to go to another job. It was so. I could provide more people who can work in laboratories because as long as we don't have adequate testing this is a game of russian roulette And anybody who's ever had a child worked in classroom knows that these kids are petri dishes and they don't get that sick no matter what it is. They come home. They have a fever for two days. There up running around their parents are dying the rest of the week. You know the road. Ten more days. I this is a bad idea. Yeah i so. I'm also i think i'm closer to where coke is like on my thinking. Is i know why some people are pushing for school. It's so many different so many good reasons to push for school so one. The socialization is a real thing. That's not just you know some some some blase first. World problems your your. Your child doesn't need to socialize with their children on a regular basis. Just part of their healthy development. And it's not good months at a time for them to just sit at home on computers. Interact with people through screens. It isn't healthy number two a lot of like you said a Underprivileged kids they get their food from school get their food from school they get social work from school. And i think that's the other lesson america's learning is that in america. We use our schools for so much more than ditched teaching kids. It's kind of schools. Are almost like the the flip side of police. Worse a one-size-fits-all tool we want to provide this thing to kids. We gotta use the school. We're gonna provide this thing to the parents. We gotta use the school. Everything comes through this institution. That would be better if we took some of those things out of their toolbox and put them elsewhere. But we're stuck with school so school is where you get you know Parents get support and counselling and kids have access to the sometimes even you know the nurse or medical care is the only time they gonna get treated for certain things it. There's a good reason why they want these schools open but like you said it doesn't make any sense to happy kid go to school. And then three months later their mom is either laid out or it's not worth it and then have permanent lung damage or brain damage. Or what have you did. This is so much so much you have to think about the way a school works. I mean every every time you know we we. We moved ice. Consider my kids. I knew what was going to happen. It's like all right. The foam lights are going to end up. Having me sick for about three weeks you know after they bring home everything from schools especially when they moved to move somewhere new. And you're not. Did they get sick. No now i'm getting a whole new strains of everything and i'm the one catching a cold once every two weeks you know. It's it's a point of. That's a real point of of contention is like how do you really do this. And keep everybody safe. And i could get really scientific and say okay. Well how do we define safe right. What's what's what's a number that you have to put out. That's another hard thing about this right. It's like i dunno. It's safe meaning that nobody ever gets covert ever you know. It's that's the parts of this stuff. That i think about a lot will imagine nate. Cookie mentioned russian roulette so usually. That's you play. Russian roulette with a gun that has Six chambers well imagine if you were playing russian roulette and begun gun. Was one bullet in the gun. Had seventy chambers. Is it safe. It safer had two hundred chambers in public health. There's no such thing as safe. But here's the real issue that no one is is sort of talking about in that we don't have a federal strategy for this we about to bring that up. What safe or safer looks like. And beyond that. What we've got in the department of education is someone who wants to break the back of public. Ed in the first place. So yes and your kids back. They all get sick. Now everybody's afraid to send their kids to public school. How about we take our money and we'll either homeschool or we'll send them to private school without That the underlying issue that no one is thinking about. You've got you've got betsy devos. Who doesn't care if your kids get sick because her ultimate goal is to get rid of public schools. Yeah that's crazy. That is crazy. I'm coming from a family where my mom taught for thirty some years in my you know off and on the side of my family is all over the place. So it's it's not an easy thing to to. You know to sit and try to make a decision on the more i think about it the harder it gets you know. I think i had some. I would have said three months ago. Two months ago my opinions may have been a little bit different than they are now Glad i'm not like got my heels dug in so much that it's like just engraved in stone but literally i. I'm like you know i i can see. This is an unknown fear. It's not a measurable risk than most people understand. Really good friend of mine. Said i guess you know. It's like the difference between known and unknown risks Yeah football players will go back knowing they may get. Cte normally have broken ball and knowing all these things could go on but those are risk that they understand part of the game but they don't you know but but like trying to say what's the risk of what would happen if you were exposed. It you know we get to a different side of the fence. Cove is thrown into the thrown into the mix. I i really hope for kids sake. You know that we find a way because everybody. I talk to the superintendent of schools. Here where i am is a is a friend. It's like it's just you worry about kids falling behind you worry about. A parents can't go to work situation at home. Could be even worse than it. Is you know. So a lot of divorces stunned by just you know not having an outlet not being able to lieven have that you know that with your your brother or your sister to kind of calm things or ease tensions. Everything will have to deal with everything in house. Yeah we're making village individual. That's the problem. Yeah so here's an example of because we're not alone in this. This is a bigger world than just the us there was a story. I saw that kind of outlined a little bit. How italy italy was hit really hard and early on this was like the poster child for what not to do. But now kind of flip. Things is is how. Italy has gone from being a global pariah to a model however imperfect viral containment holes. Fresh lessons for the rest of the world including the us after a stumbling start. Italy has consolidated or at least maintain the rewards of tough nationwide lockdown through a mix of vigilance and painfully gained medical expertise. So here's some of the steps that they've taken It's government has been guided by scientific and technical committees local doctors hospitals and health officials. Collect more than twenty indicators on the virus daily send them to regional authorities who then for them to the national institute of health. The result is a weekly x. Ray of the country's health upon which policy decisions are base is a long way from the state of panic near collapse. It hit italy and march this week. Parliament voted to extend the government's. Emergency power tober fifteenth. After the prime minister argued the nation could not let its guard down because viruses still circulating these powers allow the government to keep restrictions in place and respond quickly including with lockdowns to any new clusters. The government has already imposed travel restrictions and more than a dozen countries to italy as the importation of the virus from countries. Now the government's greatest fear. So and i think you you spoke to this mark. It has to do. There's no national strategy. So i think we're always talking about these individual school districts in which schools do and what should state do. What should the school district do if we had some top down guidance where everyone was on the same page. I think we might be in a better position to think about how to open schools. But i fortunately we do have a scientific and technical committees and we do have people who work with their local areas. It's called the public health department. Everybody has one. It's just that our administration doesn't care what they say. All that stuff takes. Yeah we have. We have all of the tools. America does have good institutions. Or at least did it's been slowly eroded and break broken down over the last three to four years and i think it's kind of interesting too though i one thing i was like to try to look at it. Take take a picture away from the numbers and you know what would have happened if if we had seen some of the things happen where they happened in italy right you can see you can speculate and say maybe you know i out of the sixty million people that are in italy. The you know. The rate of growth of the virus wasn't contained when when they were going through their worst time right now actually pulled some numbers on that. Because i wanted to. I wanted to kind of get a feel for for for differences between like italy in the us and and literally you know you look at something like the the case fatality rate right and the case fatality rate at its highest in italy was twenty six point six two percent if we had seen a case fatality rate. Like that i think all hell would have broken loose You know our case fatality rate at the highest in the us was seven point. Seven four percent were sitting at about one point seven three percent now at the same time. Italy was at twenty six point six two. We were at three point. Eight two percent. Yeah but we weren't testing worth a damn either well but i'm so now but now here's what's happened so today right today where we talk about testing in the. Us is running about twenty four hundred tests per million people. Right elise at least at eight thirty five. Our case fatality rate now is one point seven three percent and that's confirmed cases right and kim. You know we could go and look at the the the infection fatality rate would be lower. Because you gotta figure normally there's ten times more infections than we ever can count as confirmed cases. And you know we could speculate but i think i think people would have gone. We would have lost our minds. We've seen anything like that happening here so you need. We literally need bodies in the street before we can act that. That seems like such a a adul- headed way to go about it. It's deplorable to think of it. That way right. But but i think the us is just. I had this conversation with somebody one day and again in any disagreement throw it out right just kick kick kick me and my behind about this one but i think part of of the issue that you run into in the us is it. We're we were. We've always been a country of individuals in a more or less individualistic. And i think over the last fifty years. It's gotten more and more individualistic right. The galvanizing things like world war two where everybody could get behind the actions that were going on. But this is something that on such an individual level and you don't see the damage the same way you do like okay. We're at war. We everybody's gotta pull together. We're not gonna come out of it. You know what i mean. I i'm i'm i think about. You know you look at what could affect italy. They had a median age of almost forty eight years old. The us like thirty eight years old know older pop. All the things go and you look at but literally. I'm like i'm like i. I try to make some sense out of numbers that are there and then you know you get. There's there's Lies damn lies in statistics. We always like to say right. Yeah so you don't even if the numbers are off by a factor of ten percent twenty. You know ten percent. Yeah maybe see some stuff. That's crazy. I just don't think we we we part of the perception. I think italy and right now. Italy's italy's rate of our. I'm gonna look like deaths per capita right. We're at six points where we're at three point. Three six per million in the us. Now right. that's desperate capital. Italy is it point zero nine four nine so so either either what happened was you had a vulnerable population and the way they handle it the most vulnerable population the brunt of what was going on at first Then you throw in all of the all of the other factors the ice going into going into going into quarantine else gets done. You put all those in place and it drives down to the point that they're still illnesses. They you know the death the death rate from it as extremely low right. And so i i don't know man that's that's the crazy thing is just. We're just such a big broad spread out country that you know our biggest states now the places with the most cases which is kind of what it would have been anticipated from the beginning right And if you look inside those stages she some really interesting things going on. I don't know what our response would have been though it's like and i'm glad at least gotten stuff the way they've gotten it but on the flip side. Nobody likes to talk about sweden. Who took a different approach right. And what did credit. I italy total credit for the way. They've handled it. Because i mean again. That had to be scary when they were at that point of like. I said that that death rate was the case. Fatality rate was like one out of four people. Yeah there were. There were bodies in houses just untouched. Because they died alone were they died in two people died together. It's sad it's a sad thing. But look how sweden handle this right. And the i've seen i've seen things knock sweden and things not knock sweden. Sweden basically wanted to take the case of like okay. We'll eventually get to hurt immunity. But and their strategy got got pushed out as sweden did. Nothing which wasn't true. Sweden did did say we're going to protect the oldest and the sickest right we're going to. We're going to count that people that we think are most likely just to pass the virus amongst themselves and not a lot's going to happen. We're not really going to restrict them. We're gonna ask them social distance but they talked about the culture of the two different places where they say. The swedes take that personal responsibility. Really seriously right and and you know americans. We're like a man you telling me what to do for the most part ever want to see how jerky americans are watched the opening of any olympics game everybody else walks in they got some god damn sense and then there's us i just i'm i'm always perplexed by the depth like i always knew that people aren't very empathetic or people very selfish but i'm being continually surprised you know since two thousand sixteen on the depth of that lack of empathy. Like the fact that you don't wanna wear masks because it shapes your chin and you your health of your grandparents or your kid or whoever else be damned does mass chase my chin. And i don't like it gets such a baby mentality. It's so weird to me as grown people that we can't just hunker down together and say none of us like wearing masks. But let's try to do it for the next six months until we figure something out which it looks more and more like authorities won't for aren't even trying but i i don't know i'd hate wearing a mask but i do it. I don't know why it's so hard elite for other people my my fear and his go. Because you wanna make this real. My problem with wearing masks. I just came from being a black man and i'm like okay. How's what's going to happen. We walk in places. And i got you know like like a bandanna over my face like a cowboy but fear may have been rational before it was required of everyone. Yes that was a fear of mine as well but once they once they started putting up signs. Saying you can't come in unless you have a mask. I felt much more comfortable. That bothered same. Same thing same thing but i i just i i. I'm not i'm not. I'm not as amazed by it. Because i think like i said our our streak of individual is nice to work in europe quite a bit. I mean i worked in italy France spain portugal I've worked in and the netherlands. I mean i and just the difference in cultures. And i think the difference in the way they handle authority is is you know. We're we're staunch individualist for the most part and that's what makes it hard. I think that's what makes it hard and people who live like here in where i am in. Tennessee really can't even imagine california's a different country as far as they're concerned you know we're we're just such as landmass goes now of course. You're not as big as canada but you know but we're pretty big spread out country You know and i think that that just creates the issue that among other things of you know i think leadership was not clear on what to do with a message early on know so i i don't know a lot of stuff that's gone on interesting But but you know at the end of the day over used phrase. We italy's numbers are down to a point where people are dying anymore. And that's a good thing. Whatever the true you know. It's like anything with an experiment. Whatever the truth is is buried in there somewhere right of of understanding the exact mechanism what worked but the good thing is people. People are not dying at at at a rate of one out of five you know and even in the us right we gotta get to the point. Where we're we're you know but not that not at not sitting at one out of one hundred you know things. That's even italy. I think the problem is we. Could i could conceivably see how we could get to the point. Where italy is for a moment but then people would stop wearing masks as you can see in italy. They're still adhering to the social distancing the mask wearing the cleaning. There's still adhering to that. And i think that we know even if the professionals and the doctors and hospitals and everyone does what they're supposed to do. I think it'd be short-lived and it'll just blow up again because people will see even less reason to do what they're supposed to do. Oh speaking of we. We were offline. You mentioned that your son's going to be attending a school that you think handled reopening really. Well you want to talk a little bit about what that looked laker right. I don't mind talking about that at all because i thought For things has made things have gone wrong. you know. i said he's going to university of miami. And i i think they handled things really well And i've got a way of gauging it because my my to other to other kids are both you look information is coming from got one. School remains nameless. Didn't give very much information. One is giving more now kind of catching up. But you know they've done it. They did a great job of a communicating throughout the entire time that those kids were off campus and even before when they were making the decisions of whether or not they were going to close campus. They informed everyone but the path out of that and then going back to school has been kinda neat because we got. We got a youtube video from the president university once every couple weeks. Maybe you know that that was explaining what was going on so i think you feel the mere fact of informing people what was happening. You know gather you folks are young and they look at it and you know my son could look at it and evaluated but but we could look at his parents and evaluate and say hey you know and i can look at it. Technically say they're actually thinking of things that are pretty neat Adding more sections of classes to cut down on the number of people They went and went into the classrooms. If they are going to use and made sure that was marked. So you knew to keep social distancing rules and class Bafta wear masks and all the buildings. You cannot be in a building without a mask at all. added more hand washing stations. Now that the unique thing about the university of miami is the or she of miami has am medical school and a full fledged hospital like right there on campus minute long episodes right and so and so they were like okay. There's if there's icu. Capacity needed he goes. We have tons of icu. Capacity now we've already got a plan to convert you know x number of wards our beds into beds to handle surge of patients The other thing that i thought was interesting too that they did was i think they realize we're the limits were of what they could and could not do and so what they said to students. If you have underlying conditions fine you know. Don't come to school but what we've done is invested to make sure that your online experience can take all of your classes there for the next semester right. Don't you falling behind. The other thing. They did to last thing that i thought was was somewhat You know unique was a flat. Said if you are even uncomfortable right your student at just like you don't feel comfortable coming back. Forget underlying conditions. Fine. we've invested they retrained faculty and staff to be able to deliver their their content online right so now that have stuff that's formatted exactly for that They have six testing stations on campus. Right through they literally talk about. Hey this is what we do to test kids out. What's going to happen evan. Isolation area for them where they will be quarantine for fourteen days of still get their meals their class work and everything else. But i mean so. It's been well thought out. And i think aren't playing. No no the one thing. They did say that. I agree with his look. I can't control what happens off campus. Right he says. I am these and he says the students are going to leave the campus. But i cannot control that. And then there's the last thing was zero tolerance for violations to the things they lay out to the point of of of suspension gap. So it's it's now. Did he happen to mention how they were going to handle dorms and extracurriculars or is that just off the table and for next semester dorms. I think dorms are handled with more or less like temperature checks. And they've they've i think they've changed some of the things with the freshmen. They left a couple of extra dorms open because they just built a brand new complex. And they're they're doing some things with rearranging housing to make sure there's plenty of stuff in there for them The extracurriculars muris miami's playing football in in in in september. So there's their sports or their sports are are full. Go for the fall okay. We had we just had a big discussion about that group that i'm in of alumni from the southeastern conference. And there's there's some there's some good stuff it's it's a it's a black alumni group and interesting interesting conversations about people feel about you know these guys are going back to play you know and i said it's just a matter of a lot of times. Hey there they know what. The risk of playing football is the unknown risk that that creates the itch Because they're willing to take the risk of what football brings but at some point you know at some point it's going to be interesting to see but and it's going to be there's going to kids l. Last thing that i think is very important. They have to be tested before they can come back to school. Okay so at least to start with a baseline of saying hey if this kid is back on campus they did not have it before they came to campus. You know okay maybe maybe this is coca you can let me know in my off track but that they get tested before you go to school. Isn't there like a window of three to four days between the testing and being back on campus. So i get tested at home or maybe i misunderstood. They're gonna get tested at home and then they're gonna make the campus yes. It is a window between when they get the results or even if they get the results the same day. There's gonna be a window between that testing and when they're actually on campus. They have to travel there. Someone negative today and go out and get it tomorrow right right so so they can't even say even if one hundred percent of the kids are tested and one hundred percent came back negative. They can't say that the kids who come on campus are all negative. So here's a management part of that right so then then what what what would happen. What's the probability of having a lot. Well i'll tell you this and we already know. This code was on their campus. In march forty five percent of the students had a respiratory illness that they managed. My son's roommate had it. We think my son had it so a if you come back and say that population is coming back to school. After they've been exposed bright b b. Now you've got everybody tested. No antibiotics i say antibody tests. But we're going to. Do you know the ted the pcr tests molecular test but if you start off with a baseline of that. And what's the probability of even ten of those fifteen thousand coming back within two weeks being positive or a hundred of them being positive right. So i think this is this. Is this this. This is president's background as a public health person that he's managing risk right. He's he's. he's absolutely managing risk. Because if not he's not saying you know. We don't have precautions on campus. He's anticipating that. Somebody's going to be positive on campus. That's why all that stuff is in place. Okay i test you guys before you come. We have an idea of what this population looks like. That is coming back but be. I've got all these other interventions because i know i can't absolutely no that nobody's got it and what i appreciate about the approach so i guess he's not thinking that if i get everyone tested i'm guaranteeing. It's not on campus. It's more so. I'm hoping to catch. At least another. you know. Whatever percentage of those who may have it before they get here because if you test positive. You can't come back until you do whatever you need to do right. You've got to go through your quarantine and then get tested again. Get tested again yup. Okay and then. How about coming back home does he. Does he have any protocols in place for that for the students coming back home because they may have gotten it the last week or the last couple of days. They're coming back home meaning like once. They're in school and then they go back. Yes so they. Let's say the end of the semester around december. Everyone's finished finals campus. Okay so there's a two guys elation after you finish everything before you go home. They're going to quarantine you on campus. Okay so i also thought that was a good thing. Because it's in such gap. i'm not going to disperse. i'm going again. Dispersed these kids back to places where if they have it they can take it to other people. We've got everything. Set up right here to take care of you if you have to isolate fourteen days then so be it they. That's why that's why. I really gave them kudos for the plan. Because i think it's really well thought out. Yeah it seems like they done everything within his power to do. It's just a shame that i don't know if this governor disentis or whoever is going to help at all or do anything to protect them once they leave campus and get on buses and planes. And that's that's the frustrating part on santa's dishonest who he is right and i think he didn't but i'm gonna give him one piece of credit. He did one thing that i thought was smart when this broke out. He emptied the nursing homes. You didn't bring people in. And that's why. I think some of the some of the fatality rates. You see in florida are much lower than for instance what you saw in new york where people got put into nursing homes right to santa's dispersed everybody. They actually learned kind of what he had to. What had in new york and says. I don't want to repeat that so. There was some steps that were taken in florida again. Nothing's a national response right. Yep so there. There were some steps taken in florida. That were actually beneficial to them early on when this went on. Because you know my dad's there my aunts they at that campus home for me and And so to watch kind of how that's happened because my mom pops is there and stuff family. It's been interesting to see that. The certain tactical things they did that help them even though the numbers are the numbers are growing. Now it's growing in the really youngest parts of the population. You're not seeing this despite of of deaths and you know like like people thought it is going up a little bit but it's not been like a terrible case of it. But i just think like i said this is so needy of a national response. It's ridiculous just is right. So people would know. But america's most places south dakota is not new york city. So that's why. I think the tiered approach and some of the responses have to be have to be looked at the one thing. I'll get kim's opinion on this. But one thing i do not like seeing done using a percentage to determine what your next step is. Small populations are more affected by a change in numbers in a big population right. A percentage as far as percentages. Go so i think using per capita numbers to like set. Certain standards is is the way things should be done And not not promote things in percentages. But you know kinda my opinion. But i think that's the best way to say if you're gonna be equivalent and interventions are taking steps to open and things like that. That's the way that's the only way you can do it. Yeah i really think per capita is a better way to deal with it but you know. Good luck with that. What's the what would be. The distinction between percentages and per capita isn't basically the same data. Now so what you're looking at is like i normalized everything for population. So let's say if i were to look at your your community as population of only one hundred thousand people And i looked at new york is a population of only one hundred thousand people so new york instead of new york could have five hundred cases but because they're seventeen million people are in new york area. Let's say twelve right. Five hundred cases in new york has nothing compared to five hundred cases. You know somewhere else right but the thing that would make him the thing that would make them even as you if you put it as a rate per number of people at level is it for population no matter where you are right so give me an example like what do you mean well before i was given given the numbers of of how many how many like cases here's one right right here for for italy right one hundred eight. They had one hundred eight per million people. We talk about cases right. That's the case rate like like you know at the highest if you look at where the us is right now. The us think is sitting at At look like ninety ninety by ninety four per per hundred million per million people. Excuse me let me get my mouth right. But i just think when you look at it as a rate within a group of people. It's an apples to apples. Comparison at that point about how bad it is. So if i'm at fifty per hundred thousand and you're at two per one hundred thousand then. Yeah you're you're you're better off than me. But if if i were really small place and i went from two to four. That's a that's a. Oh my god. They went from two to four. You know that's one hundred percent increase right. Well how many cases to go from five hundred thousand a you have to have to say i had you know if you're a really big place to say it's that much of an increase right. Yeah or increases as related to the population. I think they're you know they're both measures. You can use. I just think percentages are dangerous when you talk about low numbers right that that's the thing also population for example if you have a community of let's say five hundred people it's a little tiny village. One per one percent would be five people so that seems like oh one percent of them were dead but it's only five people whereas for new york one percent for them is something on the measure of one hundred or two hundred thousand people right. Okay all right and so one is small and manageable whereas the other is a raging flame. Even though they're say percent okay all right all right. I see what you're saying. Yeah exactly and you just take those numbers and it just. It puts all the numbers on a level playing field that way. Okay when you do as a per capita basis. And i just think that i personally. I think that's the way i've been able to manage looking at the data as opposed what you're seeing the media a lot where it's always a percentage you know so and so had their highest jump. Well what's highest me. Highest means they went from one percent to two percent. Okay and and so if i can gauge it by the number of people like i said it's everybody becomes the same population so you look at density that way makes sense Now why would you can. Why do you think people would be opposed to that. People don't really understand it. That's why yeah okay. I mean you know i think i think percentage is something that we're trained to think about per capita is not not unless you're you know con- professor of some kind or something. We just don't think that ring okay. It was the reason why we don't use the metric system. Okay okay. Because i know in my head what afoot looks like. I don't know what a meter looks like or a centimeter okay. Gotcha exactly right all right. So yeah that's not going to happen. Fuck switch back and forth. I can do it at work. I can't do it in life. Yeah but yeah. That's what i realized why the us adheres to you. Know the the royal system is because it's for visualization purposes. I know what a football field looks like. I know what one hundred yards. Looks like i know what a mile looks like. I don't know what it looks. Like in my head. I just yeah. So that's why it's always a here. It's going to be stuck okay. It's worth it's worth scientists like especially microbiologist and stuff bit schizophrenic. Because everything we do is in the metric system And we're we're fine. We're fine our world right in the metric system. But right. I mean it's it's i. I couldn't tell you the difference. Like between if i had to go. How many or if. I was measuring bacteria going. Oh there's one hundred organisms per out. But if i go. There's one hundred organisms per milliliter. I know exactly what i'm talking about right so it's just nuts. We're we're kinda crazy that way. Who though that was. That was a lot of cobra. Talk but i did want to go through one more thing while we had you here So the fda so a while back in march the fda cease doing in person inspections of like different a facilities and now just recently. They said they got a slowly. Start to resume those in person inspections so i just wanted to get you guys as thoughts on. Do you think that that's a critical thing to resume. Do you think we were. They able to still do their job. Without these inspections. What do you think about that. I'm thinking so. I basically believe i basically believe that that The inspections for the most part. I think if you take most companies really want and most places really want to do. What's right the inspections become More of of the check and balance. It should be right. It's not part of the process but it becomes a check and balance. I think it's good to have them back right. It really is because as much as we hate to say it at thomson people. Nobody's gonna over. Somebody's shoulder the bad actors. Have to have that that punitive side of it hanging over their head to keep them from just kind of running running wild but yet it's kind of kind of going to the point that we can get away with this or whatever a man that's both that's both talking medical or even the food industry right where even in the food industry. Fda has just gotten the authority to to really do inspections could always do them. And it's part of the process of making any usda regulated product right but fda inspections basically fda kind of left it up to other groups to keep the food industry Inspecting the food industry that will of fda regulates was do on. Its own the medical side former side. Whatever else those have been those have been going on forever. And i think because there are much more highly regulated part of the of their much more highly regulated industry writing the consequences for mistake. Really pretty high I i'm glad to see him. Start bringing them back. They were gone for a while. And i think most people probably did what they needed to do. And everybody's making adjustments now. Workwise that that like doing something. That's out of the norm just to get by. I think he's like in the back of a lot of people's minds girders wondering how to have their employees back safely to make sure the processes are back running the way they should be running Yeah i i. I guess that's to me. I'm glad to hear that they're being phased back in and the fda's taking some steps along the way to make sure if the inspectors fuel protected to that that's been the side of it. I think is a good thing. It doesn't say these oklahoman mike right. You have experienced in food micro right food and food and pharma okay. So it doesn't say in these articles but do you think that The fda is going to incorporate now different covert protections or into their inspections. Is that going to be added to the checklist that they do when they walk through or are they just going to resume the standard inspections that they were doing before. I that's experienced. That says that covert is is transmitted through drugs or food. No i mean. I don't see how you add that. If there's no reason to add that no yeah you're right. There's no evidence of it right now. So it's not about the safety of the workers it's purely about the safety of the product that's produced from the covert side. Yeah that's the point it's about it's about. It's not worker safety. It's it's more dealing with product safety. And i think that's where my mind went. I write worker. Safety falls under osha. There we go with all of our folks again right so we could find. We could find somebody else to worry about the workers but literally i think. I think it's good when the fda and say it's just more regulation but the fda to me is not overbearing and the frequency or or anything to do with their their inspection services especially on the pharma side. Well i mean obviously the user fees pay for that so not going to be so bad if we're paying for that right. Yeah you're right on that one too. That's why it's like okay. Do you could that system change to make it to make it a little bit different and punitive audits and inspections or something that a lot of folks say. Hey you know you get the right inspector right. Then you're you're better off all got so and so we're better off than with so. And so. But i don't know i i don't interesting i could bounce it off you. You've had probably the the that former side a little more than i have and it's to me it's a side. It's got a ton of regulation already written right and noncompliance will get you into a ton of trouble because you won't. You'll make something that's unsafe. You know and. I think the inspections at least look over the shoulder. I know on the food side. They're just getting used to. Fdic inspections going nuts. So it's it's interesting. It's interesting to kind of figure out. What's the real. What's what's the real benefit. I think it's helpful to have always have somebody kinda just peak in and say all right. Here's what here's what's going on so as a businessman who you know