29 Burst results for "Eappen"

"eappen" Discussed on Importance Of Questions- Quora

Importance Of Questions- Quora

03:16 min | 1 year ago

"eappen" Discussed on Importance Of Questions- Quora

"We plot anything and you did. He's hold on so they can put on by and not opportunities for christmas used it we get the approach so many things. It's nice for customers audience. So i am putting these audience you so how spencer. She works as judge noise since last one. But i didn't have any. These are still on seeing me. I think they are meeting good audience. Our did maybe he did not tell you soda any customers to happens. It happens this week. Maybe how isn't any customer will be with us. Why did not we. We working hot. We are doing exploding. Then why do you not so as you have just told their teeth. Nisus actually list. The egg legal explicit. The don't mean so then. We asked that before starting forecast topping before starting your topic again explode responsive. Miss in the popular of the indian. During are you. Don't not so your your mom at that time out. So you can hunters. Debtors swansea dopey enemies up. Pitching your forecast. You're not expanded so according to you move. Each one is the most but i look role which one is right. I have. I have to explode too. And i think in one maybe i i do the time we city you need to have a of because as she is as you all know that she was not willing to. This is reporting eappen dude as back as soon as when this was postponing but again i would make cut. Even she's been she's ready as sponsorship and again Huge on most of the courage..

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"eappen" Discussed on Banking Transformed with Jim Marous

Banking Transformed with Jim Marous

08:11 min | 1 year ago

"eappen" Discussed on Banking Transformed with Jim Marous

"That absolutely helps drive conversion since you talk about the history of pay pal. I referenced paypal this week as a legacy fintech which is really interesting that we actually are talking about. You know we're not we're not talking about. Mbna here but we're talking about lacey fintech and pay pals really that it's a it's a big organization but it's also one of the first fintech organizations that most of the new now buy now pay later has seen incredible growth of the last eighteen months a lot of it outside. The normal realm of we would considered our payment providers. Why and how was this come from. We're we're growth happened and why so quickly. It's a really great question and it's a it's it's a great term. I might borrow that from you in the future legacy fintech and i i jump from bank to fintech you mentioned. Nba two thousand six. That's fifteen years ago and an big al's older than that yet You know fintech wasn't really a category norris. Buy now pay later. But what's given the rise in this. Last eighteen twenty four thirty six months. It had been building right so coming out of two thousand eight. Recession lending was one of the few industries that were slower to get back on their feet from fintech lending perspective. It really started in the beat. Abi space than it went beat a on consolidation is lending club prosper etc up and then it was twenty thirteen. Twenty fourteen twenty fifteen where a lot of the companies that are now sort of common name started to develop new products and bring them to market a big firm after paying australia. They didn't come to the us to the last couple of years My own company push pay on that pay pal. Was there the whole time. But if focused on growing core its core distribution and yet it was late eighteenth early nineteen clark. It would be another year. We're tracking started to build gen z. And start to drive this affinity for this newer type of solution and the growth curves. Were pretty good if you track it in eighteen. Nineteen they were they were decent. But then you last march and april twenty twenty. Yeah everyone's world changed with the pandemic and in those early days. If you remember in banking it was sort of like oh no. This is the next cycle. Everyone thought two thousand eight was a cycle that they'll never see again. This was completely different. Was a psycho inside of a pandemic that you kept people at home. Force them to shop online. Not on my shopping wasn't a thing but it accelerated rate. Mckinsey talked about ten years of adoption happening in the span of a few months And it brought great uncertainty. Was i going to be able to leave my house tomorrow. They're going to have a job. If i have a job. Who am i going to get paid. oh my gosh. I better manage my cash flow at the same time when distribution of new pay solutions were just sitting there stride on product pages in earlier in that funnel and it is this sort of industry momentum with the pandemic was just You know a real once once in a lifetime type inflection point where really strong growth rates became astronomical growth rates You know we just drove to to really mainstreaming of the solution. It's basically table stakes now for a retailer to have a more modern by now later solution certainly online and i think the line is becoming more and more important And it's always been important at the big boxes. I'm talking about like the regional and give varieties type retailers and. I think that's really it. I think the last eighteen months or whatever the math is on the pandemic really just ignited a industry. Buy now pay later. There was already growing It just bent the curve even more than the likes of which you none of us have ever seen before and hopefully we never see it again for this reason anyway. Well just in too because it made us. We couldn't define exactly the Marcus i talked about the people that forego their mortgage payments in some cases they forgo their mortgage payment because they could make their mortgage payments and feed themselves the same time in the other cases. People were forgoing. The morris pays 'cause they were allowed to defer without an interest impact and build up savings account so in the same way by now. Pay later if you really wanted to. Tv or you need to replace your washer and dryer. This gave me the ability to take risk out of the equation. Say i can buy it. I have the money. But i can buy it without a negative impact financially at the same time i can. I can benefit. What if you heard from companies that are actually using pay later solutions. Yeah i mean. It's pretty consisted. It's were attracting new customers. And it sort of splits right. The early adopters will like. Wow this is tracking new customers It's helping me drive conversion I'm getting really positive feedback in terms of like Experience and loyalty And more recently. It's been a while everyone. Hasn't i better get in the game right. i better i better offer it. So there's a of. There's a bit of a photo type experience where it's like wait a second now. Suddenly my competitors set has it. I need it in vertically. It's like well what's fashion doing over there. You see it spreading to beauty and automotive and other categories as well so so mostly it's been positive it's it's high end. Truly getting conversion. I'm getting new. Customers are not taking on any more risk and with competition you know. Pricing is pricing is being lowered as well. If you're merchant we also see this situation of speed innovation. The the difference between a fast follower an a mainstream in a laggard has really shrunk. You have to be pretty on top of your game all the time with regard to certainly in the payment world in the payment innovation space that it continues to change at such a pace that you know merchants and consumers every bales really stand top and these things don't they. Yeah that's exactly right. The the basic changes fast. And if you're a merchant the great thing is it's never been easier take advantage of many of these tools particularly with the rise of platforms you really think about the medium and smaller businesses now. There's not large capital investments required to add extra features to your sort of infrastructure that you know in in the past would have required to be pretty capital intensive is now you can just like customers in scripture lifestyle and the business side with the move to sass platforms. You can rent feature functionality etc. And it's really naturally democratize because companies like paypal and others big congresses. The magenta is congress's the world making it available. So small main street retailers can compete with the big box competitors at the at the end of the walk so great you look at paypal. A big brand. But you don't see a whole lot of marketing for pay pal in the marketplace. It you see it in the the icons in the logos and all that is this partially. Because you're really taking the engagement in experiences and stay so on top of the marketplace as far as how those Eappen that word of mouth becomes your primary marketing that really. The experience drives marketing of papal. Yeah i'll a product centric person. Jim so i. I'm always a believer in great product. Experiences ultimately win that said you have to let the world know about it and give it net. We are We have such broad adoption in the ecommerce space that we have such strong volumes from a from a Ecommerce flow perspective. We really do bring power of our double sided network to play here so while we're while we're constantly partnering with merchants and talking to how about help them increase their conversion in their sales and we do spend quite a significant amount of resources there were able to add this feature to our wall it we were seeing millions and millions of transactions and effort drive adoption in consumers can turn around.

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"eappen" Discussed on Mon Carnet, l'actu numrique

Mon Carnet, l'actu numrique

02:28 min | 1 year ago

"eappen" Discussed on Mon Carnet, l'actu numrique

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"eappen" Discussed on The Times: Daily news from the L.A. Times

The Times: Daily news from the L.A. Times

03:40 min | 1 year ago

"eappen" Discussed on The Times: Daily news from the L.A. Times

"Is the world we see really the world. we know. Discover secrets hidden in plain sight. In dan brown's the lost symbol new peacock original series premiering september sixteenth. When ivy league symbolic just robert langdon is unexpectedly summoned to washington dc. He must crack a series of deadly codes to save. His kidnapped mentor along the way he discovers cryptic messages ancient mysteries and secret societies all while attempting to stop a life threatening global conspiracy. This series takes familiar settings to thrilling new heights. And we'll have you guessing from the moment you start watching with high octane twists and turns in every episode. You'll never expect what comes next from the author of the davinci code and angels and demons comes the all new series. Dan brown's the lost symbol streaming. Now only on peacock get ready for the breakneck thriller of the season with new episodes. Every thursday go to peacock. Tv dot com to sign up. Now so i'm here to tell you about wondering that's w. o. n. d. r. i. Um i cannot get enough. This is the streaming service that brings mind-blowing moments into my everyday life. There are so many interesting programs to explore on wondering like the brain-based guide to communicating better. We can all benefit from learning to communicate better. We know it can improve. Both our personal and professional lives these lessons. Help us focus less on training other people and more and changing our own communication methods so we can be better understood. I feel like. I'm already becoming a better communicator. I know you're going to love wondering as much as i do. Use my special url. So they know. I sent you go now to wonder dot com slash the times and for a limited time. Sign up and you'll get a free month trial of unlimited access. That's w. o. n. d. r. i. Um dot com slash the times again when dream dot com slash the times sign up today getting families vaccinated against cope in nineteen is an important step to bringing back joy for all of us. That's within reach. Now that the visor vaccine is proven safe ineffective for those twelve and older. This is the same maxine. Millions of californians have already gotten california is even adding new vaccine clinics specifically for young people. Together we can end the pandemic visit vaccinate all fifty eight dot com or call. Eight three three four two to four to five five to learn more. And that's it for this episode of the times daily news from the la times. Our show is produced by shannon. Lynn denise gada upping melissa kaplan and ashley brown or engineer is mario de is our editors are shawnee hilton lauren. Rabb and our theme music is by andrew. Eappen next week does madre extreme special. Thanks to julia. Turner hector besse shelby grad. Steve by the and hibba. i'm out. we'll be back next week with all the news and this mother but i..

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"eappen" Discussed on Scientific Sense

Scientific Sense

02:10 min | 1 year ago

"eappen" Discussed on Scientific Sense

"Welcome to the site of accents. Podcast where we explore emerging ideas from science policy economics and technology. My name is jill eappen..

"eappen" Discussed on The South Florida Morning Show

The South Florida Morning Show

05:57 min | 1 year ago

"eappen" Discussed on The South Florida Morning Show

"And bill keep it here. More news is on the way that's going to be top of the hour. Nine o'clock with karen remember after that we have our nine eleven anniversary special coming up to for the nine o'clock hour but what's in news. Well i just wanted to remind everyone about all the connections to florida. That happened on nine eleven. Oh one you had president. George w bush was right here in sarasota reading. The elementary school. Kids told him and he got this look on his face and he continued and finished and man when he took off an air force one. He was the only plane in the air except for the scrambled. F16's and it took off straight up in the air like a rocket from sarasota airport. Do you remember the immediate criticism when the video surfaced of. Why did how did he have such casual reaction because he was reading the school children u. Dopes would you want to do. Stand up with the hair on fire and start screaming. Then you remember this. It took he stayed up in the air forever. Yeah because they didn't want him to land until they knew everything was safe. I think he went to some bunker in nebraska or something it was. It was a crazy day. Did i think it was recommended. Dick cheney at the cia. We'll never forget it ever and we never should forget it and we're going to have a special that airs at nine o'clock that has you and jennifer enjoys all remembering where you were on that. Fateful day you don't wanna miss that Just it was the longest shortest day ever on the air. And by that i mean i moves like fifteen sixteen straight hours flew by yep and i was so glad to do it. Also explain this coming up. But i mean it's it's i think that's how i kept my sanity through that. Exactly remember trying to piece together all the misinformation that was out there is it was. It was just one thing after another. You know you had the two buildings get hit in the head okay. Then the pentagon then there's another plane still on the air. Where's it going and we're all like waiting for the next location. Like there was some there where west and you're like okay. This is nationwide right on attack in nobody knew and then the buildings fell down. Remember that feeling of anger. Yes that happened. It was just filled with rage when that eappen one one thing. I'll never forget seeing. Because i was only fifteen and i know it's a very long ts here right now but i was watching it live and i stayed home from school that day and i'll never forget them. Showing footage live footage of firefighters walking toward the towers and five minutes. Later one start to collapse. Unlike guys are gone. yeah. I started getting into together. Yeah like they were just walk in there. What happened unbelievable. That's why we can't ever forget care.

sarasota airport George w bush sarasota karen Dick cheney florida nebraska cia jennifer eappen pentagon
"eappen" Discussed on Free audio sermons: Get free audio sermons and free audio Bible studies!

Free audio sermons: Get free audio sermons and free audio Bible studies!

04:24 min | 1 year ago

"eappen" Discussed on Free audio sermons: Get free audio sermons and free audio Bible studies!

"That attention is still focused on self. Let's take a look matthew eappen verse. Twenty one then came peters at him lord. How often chum. I'd rather sin against me. And i forget it. Pay was interested in forgiveness. He knew that there were people who offend others and he comes to jesus and he says if there is someone who offends me there was someone who upsets me if there was someone who makes me mad. Someone who angers me. Jesus i wanna know how often how many times i should forgive that person and then peter even throws out an answer. What about seven times. That sounds pretty generous. Doesn't have you know the story. You know that. Jesus went far beyond that. Now when we think about the apostles jesus disciples peter. Paul john the others we think about goodman decided they were not perfect men but they were in many respects fine disciples yet when you look at matthew chapter eighteen in verse twenty one. What are you find you find that. Even some of god's finest people's they struggled to shift the tension to others because they were focused on south. How many my brother. How often shall i forgive.

matthew eappen peters Paul john peter goodman Jesus matthew
"eappen" Discussed on The Bobby Bones Show

The Bobby Bones Show

05:22 min | 1 year ago

"eappen" Discussed on The Bobby Bones Show

"Which is what i want to do. Next time. You go to acadia national park. That's where you can see moves and bears and home on all kinds of things we when we were there. We ferried to an island and like biked around the island. I fell in a rosebush funny story. that's terrible so we had our dog with us. I had roomy in the basket. Yes good I was in. I was bike. Riding and in the basket was rimi. Right rose twenty bounds. Like like Dorothy literally. Yeah the victor. I voted on instagram. Says romy. I don't think we're in kansas anymore. So good and we're literally doing that. Are we sitting in the bathroom. She's twenty pounds right. And i mean i'm like one hundred twenty something like she's heavy compared to right already struggling to get up with her but so at some point i like go to stop and i like try to put my foot down and one side is like the cliffs and the rocks coast from the other side is all this like flowers and things thankfully we were on the other side. I put my foot down and this is not good. She get top heavy and we literally just tumble into the rose. Bush and really sitting there lila eappen. And i'm like gary me out. Don't care about me. I come up. I look like i got caught up and down. My legs like Straight up clot. That's the annoying pain because it's not like like part hard pains like i've been everywhere and i'm literally like we're fine. I'll be fined memory as biking. I'm like seeing it walled. Look for me. They're looking at you and they're looking at your guy. I'm little like announcing in public. I really fell in that. Rose bush like he's a good guy drinks. Sure that's what happened. It was so bad but yeah that happened and then we went to old orchard..

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"eappen" Discussed on Scientific Sense

Scientific Sense

04:24 min | 1 year ago

"eappen" Discussed on Scientific Sense

"My name is jill eappen. We talk with woods leading academics and experts about the recent research or generally of topical interest scientific senses at unstructured conversation with no agenda or preparation. Be color a wide variety of domains. Rare new discoveries are made and new technologies are developed on a daily basis the most interested in how new ideas affect society and help educate the world how to pursue rewarding and enjoyable life rooted in signs logic at inflammation v seek knowledge without boundaries or constraints and provide edited content of conversations. Bit researchers and leaders. Who low what they do. A companion blog to this podcast can be found at scientific sense..

jill eappen
"eappen" Discussed on Postflop Poker Podcast

Postflop Poker Podcast

03:37 min | 1 year ago

"eappen" Discussed on Postflop Poker Podcast

"Now come back. Where about to get into the last chapter of ben's latest book We're talking about the future of I know we probably a little about it during the last episode ben but I noticed you start this this chapter off with a potentially controversial line the future of online poker as we know it is doomed. Yeah shall we discuss sanchez. So so yeah is controversial. Because i think that plenty possibly the majority of people out there seemed to think that You know online pokes in really healthy place. Right now And you know the numbers era eappen. Everything's looking hunky dory But you know. I just i think the the the rise of a i and The the fact that the people using realtime assistance which is destroying the game I think that this is going to rise and rise and rice and the details on c. detection methods are limited To to the point where..

eappen ben sanchez
Is the Future of Online Poker Doomed?

Postflop Poker Podcast

02:31 min | 1 year ago

Is the Future of Online Poker Doomed?

"Talking about the future of I know we probably a little about it during the last episode ben but I noticed you start this this chapter off with a potentially controversial line the future of online poker as we know it is doomed. Yeah shall we discuss sanchez. So so yeah is controversial. Because i think that plenty possibly the majority of people out there seemed to think that You know online pokes in really healthy place. Right now And you know the numbers era eappen. Everything's looking hunky dory But you know. I just i think the the the rise of a i and The the fact that the people using realtime assistance which is destroying the game I think that this is going to rise and rise and rice and the details on c. detection methods are limited To to the point where. I think eventually You know where we're gonna we're gonna face a demise of online poker as we know it and that's my opinion. What do you think love go. Well i think we need to introduce facial some sort of facial recognition to start with. So you have to play with a webcam To you probably need to enter in your Call vacs passport. But it'd be like a polka passport. Where you all have a unique playing number Yeah something like that. Well like facial recognition software idea. I think i think like you know a unto detection in the room and all about so thing would work It's just is it feasible for the mass market But yeah i mean you could. You could be forced to webcam on still not gonna stop. You can't stop someone flicking. There is across to another screen linked to another pizza Nikon stop them typing out outside of the the of the camera I i think that it's practically very very difficult to prevent cheating from taking

Eappen Sanchez
"eappen" Discussed on Scientific Sense

Scientific Sense

05:55 min | 1 year ago

"eappen" Discussed on Scientific Sense

"My name is jill eappen. We talk with woods leading academics and experts about the recent research or generally of topical interest scientific senses at unstructured conversation with no agenda or preparation. Be color a wide variety of domains. Rare new discoveries are made and new technologies are developed on a daily basis the most interested in how new ideas affect society and help educate the world how to pursue rewarding and enjoyable life rooted in signs logic logic at inflammation v seek knowledge without boundaries or constraints and provide edited content of conversations. Bit researchers and leaders. Who low what they do. A companion blog to this podcast can be found at scientific sense..

jill eappen
"eappen" Discussed on Growth Experts with Dennis Brown

Growth Experts with Dennis Brown

02:51 min | 1 year ago

"eappen" Discussed on Growth Experts with Dennis Brown

"Something that you use to grow your business right. I mean i know. There's probably hundreds we all are eappen. Sass product crazy. But if you had to pick one that you couldn't live without what would it be a guy. I'm going to be may take it from a different perspective. You tell me if. I cannot a second if you want. But there's an app that i love called kris k. r. i. s. p. And whether it's does is it will using artificial intelligence blocks out any noise. So let's say you. And i are doing this podcast right now and maybe a a kid in the offices no kids here but let's say i have a garbage truck. That comes right by the door of the office. I can hear it but you can't hear right or there's construction. There's kids running our dogs barking. So this is not necessarily a typical growth tool. But i think there's a lot of people especially given what's been going on last year and a half plus that feel a little bit of discomfort or unease when you're doing calls and you're having meetings because there's noise around you will imagine if you remove that noise completely as be focused on the moment and not worry about cut stuff coming in. So that's that's called crisp. you another one. I think that would come in pretty handy on a podcast right. Amazing it just keeps the audio quality significantly better because it's really focusing around around the microphone. So yeah. I've been using enough for for several years and i was talking to a neighbor yesterday. About how when you find products you truly love like they just do a great job. It's funny how easy it is to talk about them to other people. I feel like it should be a sales rep for this company. How many people have referred to them and he was telling me. I love the remarkable to that. You know the tablet you can use to to write notes and stuff and you find a tool that you really enjoy just so easy to talk about it..

eappen kris k
"eappen" Discussed on The Troy Farkas Show

The Troy Farkas Show

02:09 min | 1 year ago

"eappen" Discussed on The Troy Farkas Show

"All of you to do. Going forward is to be accountable when you do make mistakes. Learn from them and don't make them happen again because if you make the same mistake twice it shows that you have not learned from them. Which means that. You've not only wasted the opportunity to learn it but you have now made that same mistake again so that is just kind of my Input on all of that. Those are two traits. That i'm trying to work on if you want to read it in written form over on the trademark show dot com. You can also find the full archive of podcasts of blogs Youtube videos. All the social media information is over there. It's a really fun. Site that that i enjoy bringing to you also if you want to like make it your homepage. Hundred phone ever. That'd be cool. I've got a fun conversation coming up later this week with an old friend recording tonight so that should go over. Well keeping my fingers crossed that it happens. You never know these things but hopefully it happens. We'll have that to you guys later this week. A second episode. Follow the show wherever your podcast. I'm sorry there may have been some issues over the last couple of months. apple podcasts. I found out has been having some issues because they re did their eappen. So it created some issues for some podcasters whether episodes weren't available in apple On my phone personally. I didn't have that issue but maybe some of you guys did so. I am apologizing for that base. Say that that bogus fixed now. But regardless i would strongly urge you all to just go listen to spotify spotify. Just a better product honestly. I think it's more navigable. I think it's better looking. And i think it has way fewer options. So if you want listen to podcasts. Like i'll lean way more into the spotify side of things. Because i i really really trust them apple. Not sure as much but that just super inside podcast stuff for me. That's enough for me. I hope you all have a great week that you get outside that you got a good little rest on this holiday weekend that you get back at it that you are nice that you don't make mistakes that you'd be patient for whatever it is that you want to spend some time alone. Ask yourself what it is that you want how you can get there. And what character traits. You need to embody in order to get there. That's my advice. I'll talk to you again later this week have..

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"eappen" Discussed on Podcast Metanoia

Podcast Metanoia

03:17 min | 1 year ago

"eappen" Discussed on Podcast Metanoia

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"eappen" Discussed on Problematic Premium Feed

Problematic Premium Feed

04:34 min | 1 year ago

"eappen" Discussed on Problematic Premium Feed

"All of the ways of the new characters are insufferable. I thought it was so cool. So i thought i liked it. Turns out less as an adult. Although i didn't hate it i'm curious to know why you hate it. I think i hate eappen hawks character so much you hate him so like if this movie had punched in the face. I would give coupons off strength that the horrible person and i was really. I'm gonna be honest with you like the pissed me off like this other guy was. Helen is okay. He fucked up a little bit when he was trying. You know what i mean. I just. I didn't get it. I didn't get that. I get the movie to this dumb The only thing i did like about it was the very nineties feels of it. You know i liked. I jimmy garoppolo. So it's funny that you know her actually like her. I just never liked the character. She plays just like her I hate the role that they often put her character. It right the characters that she plays like these side. you know. i'm not the hot girl blood. You know how these quirky smart ass remarks kind of thing and i hate. That is very nineties early. Two thousand six anyway. I just hate that role super corny in almost a humanizing. So i never and whenever she plays that kind of rowley irritates me but Yeah and hate that tight. Many hate that character that sort of like the main characters like this hot skinny white girl gonna pretend is kinda dorky even though we clearly she's hot girl you know kind of thing. It's fake giving a girl a girl. Slutty best friends like a very nineties movie. She she like she gets a slap in a gay. Those two friends yeah. That was very much like janine. Became the archetype for that in fact her big Her big essentially the the thing that that broke her open as a as a celebrity and actor was actually cats..

Helen jimmy garoppolo two friends janine Two thousand six eappen hawks nineties
"eappen" Discussed on Infinite Rewind

Infinite Rewind

03:04 min | 1 year ago

"eappen" Discussed on Infinite Rewind

"I'm gonna keep talking But i think that he did a great job experimenting here with his vocal delivery where i think he could have experimented. More is lyrically. I would've liked that a bit more. I think if the songs were shorter in some instances That would've helped. I thought i'd come forward you in the intro in the outdoor kinda like forgettable at times but there were some serious nine and ten moment on here like submerge matrimony The first song on here like those were all very groovy very like you know you just felt like was one cohesive unit like everyone was aware of their detail job. No one was there to really stand out. Everyone was there to create so. I think if you like albums that are smooth. Buttery sexy listens. I think every will definitely definitely be good music. It's great to cook too great music to walk to and dare i say they make a baby to But yeah. I really enjoy this album. I take points off because of lack creativity lyrically and took on a little longer than i would like So i'm gonna give us seven strong seven for me a and go next lebed-brokered we got to be able to see you. We can't do this back so yeah not. Many things took points away from me. I liked the extended jams will I think probably most likely because in many of those cases i found myself improv. Just restyling yet. Lyrics is really. The only took a point away from me. I thoroughly enjoy this album like listening to it throughout the week. Driving drew. a couple of hours This week fantastic. Listen to to drive to yet. That a lot of his melodic maybe. His lyrics aren't written that great but how he wrote his melodic influ input fucking beautiful doodling emissions very well with his surrounding elements. And yeah. this is coming off of like like. I said like his first album. Urban anc sweet is absolutely my top ten favorite albums time so coming into this I kind of knew to expect He worked with this one producer. Which i gotta see name because He influenced his first two albums. A lot One second He's part of a band name Shoddy stored matthew eappen. He did a lot of the production a lot of the composition on the his first out i think him and the producer work very well.

matthew eappen
Prof. Cecilia Lunardini, Professor of Physics at Arizona State University. - burst 01

Scientific Sense

59:38 min | 1 year ago

Prof. Cecilia Lunardini, Professor of Physics at Arizona State University. - burst 01

"Welcome to the site of accents. Podcast where we explore emerging ideas from signs policy economics and technology. My name is gill. Eappen we talk with woods leading academics and experts about the recent research or generally of topical interest scientific senses unstructured conversation with no agenda or preparation. Be color a wide variety of domains. Rare new discoveries are made and new technologies are developed on a daily basis the most interested in how new ideas affect society and help educate the world how to pursue rewarding and enjoyable life rooted in signs logic at inflammation v seek knowledge without boundaries or constraints and provide unaided content of conversations. Bit researchers leaders. Who low what they do. A companion blog to this podcast can be found at scientific sense. Dot com and displayed guest is available on over a dozen platforms and directly at scientific sense dot net. If you have suggestions for topics guests at other ideas please send up to info at scientific sense dot com and i can be reached at gil at eappen dot info. Yesterday's dini whose professional physics at amazon is taking versity. One of the primary of usage focus is new leaders. Welcome to see you thank you. Yeah thanks for doing this. So i know that you have done a lot of work on neutrinos. You have a few papers. That came out recently. And i want to talk to a twenty eighteen paper dalogue and my own neutrino signatures of primordial black holes. invite you say. These studied primordial black holes ph is as sources of massive neutrinos by hawking radiation under the hypothesis that black holes emit nuclear no bass item states be described quantitatively called the pbs evolution and lifetime is affected by the mass and flew munich dialect my own nature of neutrinos before we get the details celia I wanted to get some definitions of folks would know what black court saw a few episodes of black holes Here we're talking about. The pride won't imprac codes owes The these black holes are fall close to the big bang And then as caulking radiation Sort of The black hole evaporating So to speak and that That lady Imitating these particles called neutrinos. Right is that. Do i understand that correctly. Yes so so pry bhutia blackhaws before we get the neutrinos what is sort of the mechanism of formation their ho- exactly what they have formed sure We believe that Primordial hose could form in the early universe from density fluctuations so We know that any object could can possibly become a black hole if you compress it into a very very small volume so this same process could happen in the universe with Density fluctuations that could be a regional space where there is an over density compared to the surrounding and each of over the east coast past Then then it could get to the point of becoming a black hole This this The details of this process are beyond my expertise But this is fairly reasonable thing to expect and The diesel really small rate in the scheme of things. Yes so when i started to Learn about time or their black holes. I was amazed by how different in mass can be. They can be may be the massive wouldn't but they can also be The mass of Being or they can be Even even smaller so they can really be very very tiny. Yes oh so. That's really really small so this is sort of quantum fluctuations only universe Kind of getting Getting concentrated in vide- small areas But we believe those. Those primordial black holes emit nucleus. we Have to go back to stephen hawking for that stephen hawking wrote this seminal paper Which is about what we nowadays. Nowadays call hawking radiation so he demonstrated that any black hole regardless of what it is could be primordial black hole or a stellar. Nicole doesn't matter any black hole isn't really black because it meets radiations so radiation particles And the the process that we call evaporation so Because a black holes fundamentally gravity objects they would meet any particle that couples to raggedy including trees so It's the moment you have a black hole you do. Have hawking radiation and neutrinos are just that are expected. Part of hawking radiation. You're so caulking radiation so that that happens to every black hole even the even the supermassive ones right so i it said gentle phenomenon And so going to neutrinos now Don't typically thing neutrino site Caltrans and electrons are really well known. neutrinos are particles. Dad don't interact with The matter Espionage don't interact much with matters. We don't really see them. They don't really see them. And and so it's difficult to measure that's right and so so this could you give a. What does the history of neutrino vendor we. I understand such things existed. Let's see We go back to the twentieth century and the story goes That the father of neutrino sees Warfare he. He made the hypotheses of a new particle existing as a way to explain Some strange behavior of neutrinos produced by by nuclear decay so It's it's a long story but Let me just say that For a long time. Neutrinos who just the hypotheses and then around the mead of this twentieth century They would actually officer so we started to Know that this particles existed and But that was pretty much heat. So we didn't know much about the properties And one of these properties the mass which we still don't know i'm easy after all these decades but we still don't know if neutrinos have something like a magnetic went for example And something that we didn't learn until much later on is the fact. That neutrinos oscillate. That's that that sounds. That's something that we that were somehow established Turn of the sanctuary around the around the year. Two thousand really after after decades of of testing with the solar neutrino selling trainers. So there are still there are still a number of no on your trainers. One of them is the mass one and the other one is the The nature of the neutrinos being the iraq particles or miranda particles we She's kind of a fundamental cost. So there are that. That's that's that's related to the fundamental nature of the neutrino as particle break. So so they do. They have a mass but masses small. Do they have a chunk. Neutrinos don't have charge so they are electrically neutral and that's Comedy the biggest reason for for them to be a so allusive as you were mentioning earlier on especially in the in early. Nineteen hundreds all the particle detectors so basically a electro-magnetic detectors they were looking for charge or Magnetic behavioral some sort. So neutrinos don't have that and so they They only have the weak interaction At that that we know wolf and gravity of course and so that's why they They escape detection so so easily because their interaction is very weak. Yeah so so. That's sort of the beauty of neutrinos right so because they don't interact V can go back digits of years. Simple hats Perhaps become pickup one on earth and it would have travelled that distance through all sorts of things but would not have affected wider rate right. Yes and so so the other phenomenon of neutrino is that you mentioned that they also late so are they're failures of tinos they go back and forth. Yes it's It's actually a fairly Easy to this cried kwan to sonam on We know that In quantum mechanics there is this Particles described by these function which is called the wave function. And so the neutrinos could be on. Neutrino could be born as a say an extra and then it's quanta way function would evolve over time in a way that after sometime. The wave function is no longer a purely electron neutrino way function. But the has a little bit or even law actually of a different flavor. It could be a new one or tau. So what we observe in the actors. Is this change of flavor and perhaps the most striking demonstration of this phenomenon is solemn. Neutrinos because we know that the sun produces an extra treatments and It doesn't produce a new on and talion trainers so But here on earth we do Have evidence that the solar neutrino flags that we receive has some You wanna talion. Trina in it and that can only be explained by sedation and Actually after this other neutrino data showed this phenomenon. This was also confirmed by a saint men made experiments so it's a fairly established phenomenon it and so that the flavors are Electron new on tall. Yes that's right and so. Did you understand the vendor made in the sun for example there they are made as electron Neutrinos and by the time they reached the earth day the Immunes dot. Yes yes Impart young. that's that's what happens so ease. It always the case that they get a manufactured so to speak as as electoral neutrinos always. It depends on where they are born. There are places where neutrino sutter born in or flavors. A so it's it's it really varies with With the type of environment We are talking about okay. Okay and so in the people you say ph is this primordial black holes. We talked about radiates right. Handed and left handed dutra knows in equal amounts so anybody right-handed unless the cleaners. Okay let me see so Yes you say. Indicates of dirac neutrinos. pba Left neutrinos in equal amounts possibly increasing deceptive number noon pheno species nest. Yes is that explainable. Yes so right handed than left handed. Neutrinos that may take why to explain what that exactly means me. Just say that It's related to the neutrino mass. So if you're truly knows didn't have a mass which we know they do but if they didn't have a mouse They would only exist as left handed particles which means that basically their spin is Is anti aligned with the momentum and but if they have mass and the iraq particles There could be another type of neutrino which is right handed. Which where the This being ease aligned with a mentor other than anti line and so If you are iraq these these two different species could exist and so instead of having one species of neutrino emitted left-handed one Indicators of a massless trina if we have not suv nutrients than you would have to species and so. The black hole radiate war energy compared to The case when neutrinos don't amass so when we started working on this paper i was interested in this phenomenon that A lot of the literature having to do with a developer. Evaporation of primordial black couls. Consider the neutrinos as massless about. Now we know that they are massive. And so i thought well Sixty speaking at primordial black hole could radiate more energy than previously thought. So i found that aspect interesting and then sees you mention the possibility to increase the effective number of species. That's related to what it was talking about. So then you the black hole would ra- gate more neutrino States or more neutrino Species to spe pseudo speak and then Would increase the number of neutrinos per cubic centimeter Data we observe today so I'm kind of glossing over a lot of these days. But basically cosmology gives us a measurement of this and effective which is called the effective number two species. And if you have this right. Handed neutrinos coming from the primordial black holes. This number could be higher than than expected. And so that would be may be a i way to tell that maybe there are more black holes in the universe yet. So so the hawking radiation essentially creation coming out of black holes Expected defined Expected that over a long period of time. Black holes radiate away lap. Later ray out the mass or information that didn't do it And so this. Radiation is hockey. Radio station is it is a new park. Or is it. Fundamentally composed of neutrinos hawking radiation is made of every particle that no of so A black hole. A camera gate Pretty much everything. Photons neutrinos throngs You loans It said cetera but There is the catch here. The fact that a black hole has a temperature which is another Big achievement of stephen hawking to end and others To that the black hole is thermo dynamical object and so Basically the bigger the black hole the lower the temperature so if the temperature is really low The black hole wouldn't be able to immed- Very massive particles because they are thermal energy would be sufficient for that so because masses energy Mc squared right so because massey's energy If a black hole has too low of a temperature It wouldn't have its quantum energy It's it's Wouldn't be enough to produce the mass off a particular particle for example a proton may be too heavy to be produced by a really low tanto black home so so the beaker. The black called the lower the temperature. Yes ed so. So then can expect the bigger black holes to have more of a neutrino content in radiation. Yes because The bigger black holes would as i said be able to radiate the heavy particles and so they would only be able to radiate away the low mass particles and so there could be black holes that only emit photons gravitons and Neutrinos do a of sort of the distribution of this primordial black holes Isn't you know sort of everywhere. What is what do we know about you. Know some of the distribution of bbc's you mean spatial distribution like where they are now. I'm wondering just like the easy would do sort of look at the early universe will find them everywhere Probably at the beginning they would be a more or less uniformly distributed Bug in the universe. Today they would probably be Behaving like the dark matter. Does they would Be part of galactic halos In other words they would be they would class gravitationally on large structures like a like a galaxy placido galaxy so these call still around They would they would behave like like the dark matter down. So they would be in in halo. Galaxies would have by. Now have april would would they not have disappear because it far it depends on the mass That they have when they are born so their if their mass is less than a certain value that trying to remember Basically yes they would have to By now they would have completely evaporate did their masters larger than they will take longer to evaporate and they could still be around So they roughly speaking the dividing line between a black hole. Steve being around today or not. I think it's something like ten to fifteen grams fiery recall correctly into fifteen clams though So this paper. Eusebio obtained the diffuse flux of right hill. Neutrinos from his idea and so so. So so the nikkei actually act to build these neutrinos. They'd be flying here do pbs specifically In principle that's a possibility we Considered that for certain Masses of these black holes and certain density of this black holes the flux of neutrinos that they generate over time could be fairly large and so we could Detect these neutrinos If we had a very Power who attacked so Now life is never ideally in the sense that a real Ut detector have substantive issues like ground And so on. So at the end of the people we conclude that impact is giving given the limitations that current nutrient doctors have It may not really be possible to detect neutrinos trump mortgage black holes but people. That's a possibility and that alone is interesting. Yeah because they suggestion that this primordial black holes could be as as you mentioned could be part of the dark matter that yes to seeking. Is that still About us that has been. There has been a debate on these Kind of going back and forth in the scientific community The latest i heard is that Black whose could be part of the dark matter. Maybe even a large part but probably not they entire dark matter so a one hundred percent primordial Battery is a bit difficult to justify the day. experimental bowels that we already have constrained so various types but there could be scenarios where maybe a fraction of the dark matter. He's made of primordial black holes. I wanted to go into a ended up paper in twenty twenty supernova neutrinos directional sensitivity and prospects for dissertation here the export potential of current and future liquid cinta league neutrino detectors. I decade old town. Mass a localize a super a supernova neutrino signal into sky in douglas was feeding the core collapse nearby star tens to hundreds of english Coated and don't be constructed policy in the detector can be used to estimate a direction to the star so so this is now neutrinos from supernova and You so so we. We have Idea here that before this opened on what happens. If please open over a time period it is creating neutrinos that could pick up and and potentially get ready to see the super bowl. Yes that's what excites me The fact that Think about bitter jews. Beetlejuice is the most famous nearby star. That could go supernova anytime and we don't know when that's going to happen and If it wasn't for these neutrinos that our paper is about we will know until the style literally Collapses and and then soon after becomes superman but in this paper we we Show that before the star collapses which is the beginning of the supernova process We can detect these. These neutrinos That are used at that at that stage and so increase the pool we could know that You know tomorrow. These days beetlejuice exploding and that that would be quite exciting. Yeah it's beetlejuice is is red joy and reasonably close to was really big star. I can remember Cecilia there was some suggestion that It could go supernova within something one hundred fifty thousand years which is obliquely in cosmic time so it is getting ready to go to Supernova right yes. I am not you formed about exactly the number of years give or take but it's it's ready it's ready. It could be any time and any time any time for an astronomer muse anytime the next thousand soviet so we should. We should hold their breath. But it's ready could be tomorrow. It could be in a hundred years could supernova. I know that this is not part of the paper but could the beetlejuice supernova avenue adverse effect on north really know a supernova is very very spectacular event. it's it's a star that collapses so it implodes i and that explodes and then when he explodes It's very bright. In the case of bitter jews we could. We could see by naked-eye shore but in terms of A fact of each radiation and neutrinos in light on on us and on our daily activities. It wouldn't it. Wouldn't affect them in any way so it's a save Show to just enjoy without any worry. Great answer so you talking about supernova neutrinos so so can be actually detect neutrinos from supernova. What different from what we talked about in the previous people Different from pbs I'm not sure. Can you repeat yes. So the new teen emanating from a supernova different from the Neutrinos of expectancy from a primordial black hole. Yes the the different In many ways disney trails have higher energies. So it's much much easier to attack them and indicates will beat the jews. We would detect thousands or even more of dan millions. Probably of them Indiana so different in the way they are born because in our primordial black hole ordinary black hole The processes volcanoes the asian. Which which is a gravity phenomenon in a supernova. You're born out of the very hot and dense environment That the that that the star as after it has collapsed so star collapsing on its own way to become very dense and so In this very dense in hot environment nuclear processes take place that produce these nutrients. So i guess the main difference is that indicates supernova it's most nuclear phenomenon and in the call is really fundamentally a gravitational sonam. Okay you discover technique in this paper and you saved sin principle possible unique the identify the progenitor star so So the existing technology and ideas discussed in the paper viki see teacup a neutrino decode. Identify valid came from or what direction thing from embed you can go back and look at the in that direction if he find to supernova then you could say that the supernova that created in-principle Yes let me. Just say that There are situations and this is not one of them but there are situations where if you have one neutrino you can point to the pointing the sky. What came from in these case. It's a little more complicated. Because what really gives us. The information is the statistical distribution of these nutrients so we are talking about may be the tax in hundred a hundred Gable take from say be for example and What did detector really observe is not the neutrino is kind of a vector which is related to the products of these neutrinos so this neutrino sues interacts with the interact with the detector. And then out of this interaction you have a positive on the new thrown and those can be observed and you can you can create a factory using these two and then and then these rector will have a certain orientation but each each neutrino coming will give you a differently oriented vector but statistically if you look at the distribution of these factors you you can tell you can you can do for with a certain of course The direction of the neutrinos because these vectors are not uniformly distributed they are they have a non uniform distribution of the direction. And so using this information we can we can define a regional the sky where The new three could come from so we can. We cannot now down to a point but we can now down to maybe a cone of a few tens of degrees Width and then we look in that cone and see what stars that com and maybe be juicy one of them. Yeah so As you say you if you see a few Neutrinos Statistics bution of those will give us some some probability That it is in in some region of the sky. And then you say the paper You can then that if it is happening please open nola. You learnt other observational. Modalities multi messagero rations Invisible in radio and other other types of observations Do actually pick up more data so this is almost like a early alert system If it is in place right yes i would call it a very early I learned to because it's we're talking about maybe our worse or insert very fortunate cases. We are even talking about maybe day Before the assad goes supernova and. so that's enough time to plan for for it so a something that fascinated me When i heard about this from a from a an experimentalist is that there is a human factor which was not aware of but The factories so if you have come up with thirty minutes to plan for watching supernova this may not be enough because it just takes stein to make phone calls and get a hold of people and and decide what to do. Come to a consensus in that. I saw in addition to technical things. Like okay have to maybe turn your telescope Direction which takes time. But i i was really fascinated by the human factor. Those things that if you had style we'd be you can kind of gathered. Relevant people decide something but if you have thirty minutes or or or minutes maybe not so. Yeah yeah i wondered. If such a earlier system is in place Perhaps could be something programmatic. Crises is picking up And you have some you know. Maybe some ai techniques or something like that that identifies the region and it goes. Programmatic returned the telescopes look. Yes yes exactly so. There could be a protocol in place For that so e if a telescope was suitable for observing a nearby supernova which which is not always the case than than now that we showed that it's possible to know beforehand if a star is going to go supernova then there could be some sort of protocol in place already so that when the alert comes which is we can just activated the protocol and oriented telescope. maybe automatically will in some sort of Organized way yeah as you say if you remove humans from the process it becomes not better there is actually already working this direction It's called this new two point. Oh a network which has to do with Exactly these using neutrinos as alert for the astronomy community and That has to do with exactly a creating alerts and also creating protocols for how to react to an alert rate. I want to end the people that just came out. it concordant scenario for the observation of neutrino from the tidal disruption. Even eight hundred twenty nine hundred ninety s t You say be induced at phenomenology concordance canadia with the logistic jet of for the title disruption event Between ninety s jesmyn proposes a source of the astrophysical neutrino event. Ice cube So the title disruption even this is star getting cooler into a black hole getting Getting sucked in rate is that the is that even up to the match yes This is something that we We had about be in in popular science stalks What what happens if you get too close to black hole and It's kind of scary. So the answer is you would be ripped apart because your feet will be pulled in with a strong force than your head and these. This is what happens to two statehouse. Use the star gas to close than by guests Ripped the park. Which is what the tied is option means and so instead of a star Rotating around a black hole we just have a stellar stellar That dr intially. I created by the black hole and so This is something that The happy neighbor cops serve did so so we have. This does happen this particularly Eighty twenty nine hundred ninety s and Bequeath actually see a new cleaners from that particular even so tightness. Deduction events are fairly well established phenomenon in astronomy. We have many of them served They they are Fairly a common plays events But what's special about this particular one. Eighty two thousand nineteen years. G is that We could let's say It could have Produced on neutrino that was detected a ice cube so eighty twenty nine hundred ninety s. She is the first either direction event. For which is coincident. Neutrinos detected a dice. Cube in queens. This coincidence is likely to be accidental. So on approachability estimate tells us that these coins. This is pretty causal not accident so eighty twenty nine hundred ninety. The g could be the parent of this neutrino. And that's that's that's a i. That's very interesting. Yes i skew. is a is a big ice cube in the in. The south is I'm not sure it's exactly cuba. But it's it's the biggest block of is which has been Eastern With values Small detectors So it's it's an array of swarner detectors but yeah it's basically a big block of ice which has been transformed into a detective and so so the idea that this high energy neutrinos from what they were System montemar even that happened Out there this high energy neutrinos passing through that ice q. believe some telltale signs All of that happening and yuxi picked up Then began back Just like you were talking about the previous creeper begin. Please back to a region so this is one of those cases where you can tell from a single neutrino of course the with with a narrower where you can tell the point in the sky where three neutrino kate from. It's doable with one single neutrino because this high energy neutrinos when they enter the is They produce ca a shower so they kind of illuminate. They you me nate. The is but the do it in a way which is very much Beat so and then and then the direction of the the direction of bigotry knows. We have a pretty good accuracy often. How often could be a pickup something like that. Do we have an estimate of how often that would happen. Meaning ice cube detects something like this. Every year ice cube the tax Of the order of ten high-energy neutrinos froth outside our galaxy. Tadesse the number for the entire crop of neutrinos that ice cube has It went we talk about tidal disruption events in the specific these are fairly rare phenomena and so they estimated that maybe a few times so percent of the entire neutrino flux the thais cubeys of serving could be from tidal disruption events. Not much more than that. So we are talking about less than half of the total flats being to tell this option events okay and so the tug disruption burned as as you mentioned It starts getting clipped applaud and pulled back into a into a a black hole but this ten percent. Do they have to be these braces as they call it. The things that have a jet that is sort of lying towards us. Is that it necessarily condition for these types of high energy neutrinos. It's it's a plausible scenario Let me just say that. There is an important difference between blazers in tidal disruption events. In the fact that the ablaze is something that has a jet. She's always on so the jets kinda kerman feature of of these particular galaxy but the title is adoption. Event is transient events. Saw dotcoms creates the accretion. This accretion of the star of the black hole produces flair is flair can last year or two but then it would just fade away so There could be jet and in fact in our paper we present where there is a jet so they partisans the user chat But if there is a jet in tiger disruption event. That's a transient suggested. That's born when This starts to create the stellar debris. And then it's on for months or years and then and then shuts off and it has two point in our direction as you as you mentioned because otherwise we would. We would see the trains your so this high energy neutrinos sillier how. How many orders of magnitude are we talking about coming to the one set you pick up. Let's say from the sun I'm not sure about the question. Can you maybe rephrase yet. So when you say this high energy neutrinos that is coming from let's say a tidal disruption events or something like that How much comedy orders of magnitude more energy Outdoors come to you. Know the ones that might be created the sun a lot menu of this magnitude so It is a big difference. So the sun produces new three meals. over a wide range of energies Higher energy neutrinos from the sun reach energies of the order of ten am pt and mega awards and for the ice cream. Neutrinos we are talking about one hundred of the older one hundred t. v. or even thousand teams. Which would be p so. Let's say maybe eighty tortoise magnitude finding the mass rife or okay and so this e. v. measure it is actually measuring the mass of the neutrino of newfield. Now these these neutrinos are have such a Such high energy that basically It's impossible to know their mass Because because as i said massey's energy so they talk energy of neutrino Detected is to be so high that that percentage view to its mass east so tiny that this practice mutual so i was wondering if we know the energy couldn't be sort of back computer to save the mass is or it doesn't follow The reasoning is a bit different and The way to sink about this is perhaps they let me see the formula for energy particle Which used the rest energy Applause the kinetic energy and So connecticut is so high that he thought the overwhelms direct energy. So it's it's and of course every time you measure the energy when three no. There is a narrow associated with the measurement so You we can't really we can't really tell what What led the boss of the detroit news but both roughtly this. This appears to be sort of an early warning system for many many things right topped the supernova the in the title disruption events producing heightened plano's So this could be sort of inundated with a monkey message. Observations protocols as you mentioned that gives us a higher success. Wait suspect. I would think certainly nominated be one right That's the power of multi messenger astronomy the integration of different signals coming from Photos tree knows navigation waves Causing me craze and Danger plays very powerful emmanuel cases and maybe supernova case is the most striking Xenos come first. But that's not always the case So in the indicates of tidal disruption events Did you know that was observed. Came about five months later than the initial dhammika looser version of the tidal disruption events so It's if it can go both ways. neutrinos can be early alert or they only alert could be for example a radio salvation or or an x-ray use ovation and then and then the neutrino attacked or could Focus a surge in that direction as see what they find which which has actually been done ice cube sometimes. Does these these archival. Search this on the basis of others from From for example x ray or gamma ray surveys interested. Exciting eighty that said a lot to be owned It seems It seems like these till don't know all the production mechanisms for neutrinos but if we have robust with to pick them up on than we can place them back and and talk asking questions What might be there definitely So yes so. People celia the next five years Wanted the aid is that you believe Be will make a significant crocus in this Innovative neutrinos then two different areas. That a very promising One is Broadly speaking Manmade nutrients so there is. There is a big push especially hitting the united states to build Create very powerful beams of trainings and then these beams are manmade. So we know that very well. We know that energy we know the composition and we can use them to learn about The properties of treatments and then That other men bead neutrino experiments where Scientists look for the between months so that's also very promising In something i really. I really excited about that. That may be a furious novel with noble the neutrino mass us from these very high position laboratory experience. Then there is the whole Topic of neutrinos as part of the mouth of mike messenger astronomy and in that area. I think what was was to look forward. To among other scenes is the interplay gravitational waves shock waves. You still Somehow a science of its own into a large extent but there are so many possible connections. We've neutrinos tidal disruption adoption events should produce reputation ways so baranov shoot us gradation ways So so there is. There is a a lot of potential there which is still unexplored in and that's where i see myself Working on in the next few years you adjust very quickly The do gravitational waves travel bid closest and new ashtrays and so if If they both are produced in In uneven they're expected to arrive on earth close to simultaneously. It depends on the timing of the production if the answer is yes the waves ending a knows are born at the same time which may not be exactly true because the physics that governs tation waves is different from the one that that governs neutrinos. So but the difference in timing would be the difference Accumulated that birth But but the two were were generated genetically the same time. They should arrive the same time. Just thinking this a systematic difference in the production time than guan lorries given early warning for the other. But that doesn't seem to do a case right. There could be cases where significant lag in the production of rotation way with respect to the production of the tree nose and one example is. We haven't touched on this before but let me just nation mergers so if we have if we have a merger for example we have maybe a merger of a neutron stars or black hole neutral star before the merger happens so when the two objects that kind of still approaching each other we should start observe serving ways and this is what this is what has been seen so Delight experiment observes these these nominal But if we have a merger After the merger has occurred and the two objects have become one than a. Dan could be the formation of of over an accretion disk and he secretion Trainers which we can which we can back so the neutrino We come After they initially asian waves and so relation as would be the alert for the neutrino. That does excellent. your this has been great as celia. thanks so much complaining pleasure. Okay thank you bye. This is a scientific sense. Podcast providing unscripted conversations with leading academics and researchers on variety of topics. If you like to sponsor this podcast please reach out to info. At scientific sense dot com.

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"eappen" Discussed on Scientific Sense

Scientific Sense

01:35 min | 1 year ago

"eappen" Discussed on Scientific Sense

"Welcome to the site of accents. Podcast where we explore emerging ideas from signs policy economics and technology. My name is gill. Eappen we talk with woods.

Prof. Jack Burns, Professor of Astrophysical and Planetary Sciences at the University of Colorado in Boulder - burst 01

Scientific Sense

29:14 min | 2 years ago

Prof. Jack Burns, Professor of Astrophysical and Planetary Sciences at the University of Colorado in Boulder - burst 01

"Welcome to the site of accents. Podcast where we explore emerging ideas from signs policy economics and technology. My name is gill. Eappen we talk with woods leading academics and experts about the recent research or generally of topical interest scientific senses at unstructured conversation with no agenda or preparation be color a wide variety of domains. Rare new discoveries are made and new technologies are developed on a daily basis. The most interested in how new ideas affect society and help educate the world how to pursue rewarding and enjoyable life rooted in signs logic at inflammation v seek knowledge without boundaries or constraints and provide edited content of conversations bit researchers and leaders who low what they do a companion blog to this podcast can be found at scientific sense dot com and displayed guest is available on over a dozen platforms and directly at scientific sense dot net. If you have suggestions for topics guests at other ideas please send up to info at scientific sense dot com and i can be reached at gil at eappen dot info mike. Yesterday's a jack boone's who's a professor in the department of ece fisa goal in planetary sciences unto colorado boulder. He is also vice president images for academic affairs in blue sage for disuse system system. Jack while thank you. Joe is good to be with you. Thanks for doing this so you at your team. On deeply involved in the upcoming nasa missions to the moon including The designed to place radiofrequency absolutely on the far side of the moon and be kevin deemed really back there for almost fifty years. Now i know that china s landed. I was actually looking at some photographs that just gained today from From their lander. I israel in india. Almost got there but Fleas land properly. And so so. What's our interest. What's sudden interest in going back to the moon after fifty years. Yeah i don't know that. I would characterize as a sudden interest i think on the part of the science community and really the exploration community interest has been there for a while but what has changed in the last decade is the cost doing missions And the accessibility of the moon in this new era in which we have now. Private companies like spacex and like the blue origin company. Jeff bezos company They've put considerable private resources in developing new rockets of with reusability to lower the launch costs and also technology which was extreme in the nineteen sixties to try to get to the moon. All hannity vetted from scratch now is relatively straightforward at gill as you mentioned Even a small countries like israel Private companies have contracts with nasa to fly payloads. Now it's it's it's realizable to Envision going to the moon at a relatively modest cost certainly in comparison to the sixties and seventies. Yes so that's a. It's a very interesting phenomenon. Now it's it's almost like a business model question. Space is Blue blue horizon blue origin. Laura gin and that is another company. Lakers peterson things. Well lockheed you ally the united launch alliance which is the lockheed and boeing Company as well they all have these new generation of launch vehicles that are capable of going to so nasa in some sense outsourcing Some of the transportation right to so captain made a selection or are they going to do essentially multiple companies. Do it the the plan is to have monk multiple companies just like the commercial crew program To the space station there's boeing and spacex And for the case of the moon for the un crude landers that Landers that are just carrying payloads nasa has identified a out a dozen companies To be able to transport a payloads to the moon and at the same time. They're also undergoing competition right now. They selected three companies to design as part of a public private partnership the next generation of human landers. So that's the same. Mostly the same group that has spacex blue origin and the third one is is dynamic which is a company in huntsville alabama rate. So it's nassar's goal here is They are they going to take contracts from other other countries do send pedal to the moon in these companies. The the way this is working now is nasa is buying services so they're no longer buying rockets or landers which they will then own operate Instead the philosophy is To buy a ride for example a seat On a human land or or by space for a payload so these companies that are responsible for indemnifying Making sure they have a proper insurance for losses They take A bit of the risk and and then proceed along those lots now. What that means is that the companies then they own the intellectual property they owned landers they rockets they own the The other transportation devices. So that means they can sell seats. They can sell payloads to for example a european space agency Or the russian space agency or individual companies. That might want to puts a payload on the moon Investigation in this kind of a lower gravity environment so it's much more entrepreneurial than what we had before and it lowers the cost to the taxpayer for doing all these things by the artist program. Which is the new human programs. The moon the Recently released cost to get the first woman in the next man to the moon by twenty twenty four is a factor of ten less than the apollo program. Yeah it's interesting. I remember jack I was involved a little bit on the economic side of the next generation. Space legal program two thousand two thousand one two thousand two timeframe and this was a program was supposed to replace the shuttle and we did not go forward with it and i guess so. What was the arranged with the russian system to get their astronauts into space station. Yeah the the problem was that you might recall The shuttle accident that occurred in two thousand three And then president. George w bush declared that the shuttle really wasn't safe And that needed to be replaced and it took a while. We're still in the process of of fully replacing it. The last shuttle launch was twenty eleven If i remember correctly so in the meantime in order to get to the space station What we did is contract with the russians to use their soyuz spacecraft to go back and forth the space station so we. What we did is the buy seats. Those seats cost about seventy five or eighty million dollars so they weren't cheap but eventually got us back and forth. He said before we get the details of the Admission stack help philisophical question so way we have technology advancing the about conflict. Television's really taking off machines. Getting lot smarter What does sort of the basis for sending humans Could be not accomplished thing that human could do with machines if that's a good question i'm glad you answered that you ask that question because Excuse me i think what we're looking for now is is Really different mode for doing work on services like the moon or mars. Excuse me in that. We unlike apollo you had a single astronaut. Geologists such as astronaut harrison schmitt on all seventeen doing classic field geology. With a shovel to now advance unit twenty-first-century. We're gonna to do. Is i like to say we're going to bring Silicon valley with us to the moon. So we're going to bring advanced robotics. Be telly operated. That will use a machine. Learning artificial intelligence And will team with the astronauts so that they will these. These rovers advance scouting. They will identify interesting places and then the role of the astronaut is to make critical decisions on what to investigate What the samples. Look like i. i still think it's true. I've been told from my colleagues who are geologists stromer But who are uninsured. Scientists in that the difference for example between. Let's say the The curiosity rover on mars. And what it's been doing and having a human on mars that the work that the curiosity rover has done last seven years could be done in two days by geologists. a that's the difference and to also bring back. You know better selected samples and so forth. So there's no replacing humans and that's not going to happen anytime soon but you you do your point being. You only wanna use humans when you actually have to. Because their time is valuable and they're expensive and also Walking around even on the surface of the moon is dangerous. Because the you know the a space where the asian micrometeorites another possible dangerous but going into this new environment. I think what we're going to be able to do is reduced risk and improved efficiency. The i don't remember the numbers but a human Mission is about ten x the cost of a non human mission. Obviously the the efficiency and like you say what begin out of it different but guess on the cost side. It's about the fact of a magnitude different you know. That's hard to say because robots still are very limited in what they can do. They're just so many things that only humans can do is a little bit of apples and oranges but yet you're probably right that on the ballpark about a factor of ten. Maybe even more. But there's also much more than a factor of ten improvement in efficiency. So you know. Those costs will balance out and obviously the advantage of a human is You know they've been. The unexpected happens in michigan learning in As long as you have heard of data to teach a machine but then the unexpected happens machines. noel exactly. The rover gets stuck. It suffers a mechanical problem. That If you have a human there at least in the vicinity can help fix it. And move orders you know i think about for example servicing of the hubble space telescope and that was done five times by human astronauts and The astronauts such as john grunsfeld did to the servicing missions was very clear that the telescope could not have been repaired in upgraded by anything other than humans because the tab the complexity of the task the ability to be able to get in and To make repairs Make on the spot. Decisions just You know there was no replacing that so hopefully humans have a few more years of Do i think we've got many years to tell you the truth. I think it's going to be you know in reading some of the literature. I think it's going to be a quite a long time if ever that. We have truly Intelligent self aware machines can operate with the same decision making kick be very good at repetitive calculations outstanding job of there but You know making creative innovative entrepreneurial. Decisions were We're nowhere close to that yet So i do that. A multiple missions being planned An international collaboration so he's the first one that is supposed to take off as leave. Yeah artists is the new name for the human missions to the moon Artemis in greek mythology was the sister of apollo The twin sister of apollo. She's the goddess of the moon. So that's very appropriate. Since nasa has already declared bet up for that first landing which nasa has been planning for twenty twenty four would Would have that first woman in the next man on the surface the first expedition by humans to the moon in the twenty first century. So optimistic applaud. Its name the program programming program. Yeah exactly right so so andrade damasio multiple things going on And so do we have sort of a space station like that is going to orbit the out. Yeah in fact. That's honored design. And we'll be under construction in the next few years has called the gateway lunar gateway. And it's it's not like the space station in the sense of being gigantic And being really limited to that single orbit the gateway is really more of a spacecraft is going to have a pulse in system using a new generation of solar electric bad is ion propulsion That will be piloted for potential for optometry use in going to mars. I have just a couple of modules that will be there it will be a place where astronauts coming from the earth on on the orion spacecraft which is a it plus the space launch system is a heavy lift vehicle that will take astronauts the moon they will dock at the gateway and then they will get into a reusable lander go to the surface. Come back in that lander and then the next crew that comes in will do the same thing so you don't throw everything away like we did during hollow in the nineteen sixties again. The reusability idea is Is key to keeping the costs down so so it is more dealer so can't be attached as as alright right. Ds change in the future. Cab edge more against it. We can in fact The japanese space agency jaksa recently committed to fly a module And nasa has invited others such as the russian space agency to think about them attaching A module as well so it definitely is modular. That way you can add habitats you can add laboratories And can can grow over time. But it's also the the idea is that it's going to be long duration spaceflight and it's away way from the earth's magnetic field so you've got the full range environment of what you would have going to mars. So i think nasa all also looks at. This is a prototype of the vehicle that would be sent to mars. Lucchese david some Conversations yet again. Remember that To go to mars you would rather start off. Start off from the moon. Is that still thinking or that. Exchange i don't think that's been decided but there's this potential real advantages of a loon. First of all launching from the moon versus the earth requires much less thrust. What what we call delta the. That's the change in velocity to Get off there. Because there's only one sixth gravity on the moon and secondly if we're successful in mining water from the minute we know now there's considerable amount of water at the polls of the moon That's hydrogen and oxygen. We can convert that potentially into rocket fuel. You wouldn't have to bring that from earth so the costs associated with launching some could be substantially reduced in doing this from the moon versus from your so people are actively working that right now and seeing if that might be the way to go i of think that might end up being How missions to To mars or undertaking so under optimus Are there plans to actually create a habitat a big enough habitat for people to stave or extended period of time. So nasa has designs. And once again i should mention this is. This is all international Insa is involved. The european space agency is involved in providing a module for the service module for the orion. It also will be working on the gateway. The canadian space agency is providing the robotic arm And the same will be true on the surface The idea is that the first few missions will of just get started That first nation in twenty twenty four is planned to go to the south pole of moon. Will we've never been to before and look at the water. Ice situation there but Over time by the end of the decade the expectation is that will have multiple habitats. And we'll have people staying there for long periods of time like the arctic station. It's run by the national science foundation. The mcmurdo station as called in which you have a number of scientists come in and visit for anywhere from a few weeks to staying for year here so salama but when the next generation space program was in progress space. Too big big project. I would imagine spacex Others cab this business plan so what's the clamps time Do that The gay yes. So it'll be somewhere between three and five days to get from the earth and you're right about. The tourism spacex already has a fide a japanese businessman. If i remember correctly who has bought a A ride not the surface of the moon but to orbit the moon on a spacex vehicle. Sometime in a in a few years but the it'll be in a three to five days to get to the gateway and then Another day to get down to the surface. So i fully expect by the end of the decade especially given the accessibility to the moon by the private sector and by isa companies That they will be selling seats to wealthy individuals to spend a A summer holiday on the moon is so if the if the gateway is expandable perhaps Taxpayers can make some money nasa. Well it might be. Yeah but but once again this is. The transportation for the most part is probably not going to be through nasa but by these individual companies who own their own rockets their spacecraft and now they will sell seats to to wealthy tourists. yeah and so You you mentioned the european space agency. You mentioned the canadian space agency of so. Is this like the space station. A larger collaboration or those are the three major ones. Yeah it is and you're right. There are Oh gosh there's probably a dozen or so. Companies countries rather involved in the international space station and nasa envisions this much the same thing And i to. I order all the countries that are involved in. The international space station have been invited to become involved with the gateway And so as i mentioned several have accepted with With enthusiasms others are still keeping that around and take a quick break jack. Benny come back to talk about the radio. Frequency of savitri on the far side of the more that you're designing you bet sounds good. This is a scientific sense. Podcast providing unscripted conversations bit leading academics and researchers on a variety of topics. You like to sponsor this podcast. Please reach out to in full at scientific sense dot com back Jack you're talking about upcoming missions to the moon Some of the manned mission some of some of the technology that you're sending up there there is a gateway bridges like the space station but attested propulsion its zone. Sorta are based entity source. And it's more dealer things could be attached to it. That may be subject is imploding. Creating that a launchpad so to speak to go to mars perhaps habitats that a large announced a mining for water mighty for hydrogen and other things and so he the program is called autonomous. So could be portal light program and underneath optimists. There are various things being planned right. So what are the The primary objectives all of those radius approved betas projects. I should say under under optimus. Yeah we'll go. let me let me start off by just looking at the difference with The apollo program because the apollo program ended fairly abruptly once the political goals were reached and it was never Really a sustainable program so Nasa and i think all of the governmental space agencies are looking for is for arsonist to be the beginning of a sustained presence on the moon and in space and using the moon as a stepping stone for human and robotic exploration of the solar system including getting the mars so the philosophy of artists is really quite different. So you're there the stay So you need to figure out how to live off the land. So that does mean as you're saying mining's water being able to grow crops being able to manufacture Equipments the habitats themselves from the From the of the regular or the soil material so using the the kind of advanced manufacturing capability three d. printing Electrolysis so that's a really different approach. And it means that what will be worked on is not just get there but a flag in the ground rather in full of soil and return on instead it means You know how do you figure out how to be there for the long haul so that means than learning how to to excavate how to build How to really maintain a life in a in a certain sense of independence. Part of the reason you want to do all that is because that's exactly what's going to be

Policy Technology Economics Science Nasa Eappen Jack Boone Department Of Ece Colorado Boulder Gill Laura Gin Boeing Company Nassar Spacex Harrison Schmitt United Launch Alliance Israel Jeff Bezos John Grunsfeld Landers Hannity Andrade Damasio
Prof. John Flood, Professor of Law and Society at Griffith University, Brisbane, Australia. - burst 01

Scientific Sense

59:58 min | 2 years ago

Prof. John Flood, Professor of Law and Society at Griffith University, Brisbane, Australia. - burst 01

"Welcome to the site of accents podcast. Where we explore emerging ideas from signs, policy economics, and technology. My name is Gill eappen. We talk with woods, leading academics and experts about the recent research or generally of topical interest. Scientific senses at unstructured conversation with no agenda or preparation. Be Color a wide variety of domains red new discoveries are made. and New Technologies are developed on a daily basis. The most interested in how new ideas affect society. And help educate the world how to pursue rewarding and enjoyable life rooted in signs logic at inflammation. V seek knowledge without boundaries or constraints and provide unaided content of conversations bit researchers and leaders who low what they do. A companion blog to this podcast can be found at scientific sense. Dot. com. And displayed guest is available on over a dozen platforms and directly at scientific sense dot net. If you have suggestions for topics, guests at other ideas. Please send up to info at scientific sense. Dot Com. And I can be reached at Gil at eappen. Dot Info. My guests today's facade John. WHO's professor of Law and society at Griffith University in Brisbane Australia. He's also adjunct professor of law at Queensland University of Technology and Research Associated University College Under Center for Blockchain Technologies, he who suggests on the Bloomberg professional globalization of law and the technology in law. But come John. Hello. Thank you. Sure. Yeah. So I want to start with one of your recent people, professions and expertise hog machine learning, and blockchain redesigning the landscape of professional knowledge and organization. In invite you say machine learning has entered the world of the professions. The different impacts automation will have huge impacts on the nature of work and society. Engineering architecture and medicine or early and enthusiastic adopters. Other professions especially law at late you say at in some cases with leptons adopters. could you talk about you know sort of the landscape all? Of Law, profession and. They today in terms of opting these technologies. Certainly Louis interesting because it's a very old profession is. Often considered one of the. Original traditional professions along with medicine and the church. And in a sense law has used different kinds of technology might say I mean does it? Based around writing. And then the printing press and So on yet that. It's always being based on a craft. A skill which the individual person is that enables them to do, whatever is quote if you like and. said, there's never been a lot of room for any kind of automation. Certainly, the has been space for using. A people who are not fully qualified as low as about as paralegals, people like that, who will do a lot of repetitive work document checking and things like that and so on. But what will get into now is the situation where automation through machine learning. There's other kinds of artificial intelligence. is able to start constructing documents example contracts. Check dollop a documents for particular clauses and things like that mature they're up to date and this incense is. Replacing now, the kind of work that noise will do. So I think in some ways more more of of the profession of law is gonNA be subject to automation, but distinction I would many because I think it's quite important here is that A lot of what lawyers do. Is actually quite. Active that that that that the drafting contracts overtime or or they're reviewing documents to some sort or another or they're getting through particular. Negotiation. And so you know a lot of it is the same, but they build up the expertise through doing these same kinds of were over and over again and What we're now finding is that instead of having young lawyers coming in and doing what you might call the grunt work of checking documents and going through discovery applications where he goes through the size boxes of evidence to decide. which are the appropriate documents you want the emails, the invoices order, this sort of stuff that is the kind of work which is lending itself to automation. And, and so that his taking away a lot of the work which is used for trading purposes with young lawyers and is just doing it much quicker. will quickly I mean More efficiently in many ways and probably expensive much much expensive a Lotta. This work is being outsourced to you know legal process outsourcing India or Philippines South Africa places like that. So yeah, that's that's right and so in some ways, the group of lawyers who do the work which requires the skill, the judgment. Is Reducing in some ways. That pool is getting smaller. Yeah Yeah it's it's interesting. The the distinction that you make between automation. And in my job and let's call it decision making right which is you know a lot of work in the business side of this. So for example. in the nineties in large pharmaceutical company So you think about you know rnd. People might think it has really complex selection of programs that design of them, portfolio management, risk management, all those decisions. Genuine companies be say well, senior managers with lots of experience and intuition make those decisions really well right and so that's statement would automatically implied that machines can really do much there. But what we find in the mid nineties says that is systematic analysis of data make those decisions. Don't better. Actually, I've Tom to humans humans. Always seem to make decisions. These are typically bonding the decision. So if you go back and look at it, alternative experiment has not been wrong. So we have no date to say it was a good decision at typically. So human scaffold, fifty percents of making good decisions So do you know just throwing a coin or letting monkey make those decisions so? Yup We found that even complex decision making that humans hold. you know close to their you know kind of domain I'm not necessarily. So we have machines That could do that much better than I. Don't know there's an analog of that in in law I I. Think The may be actually I mean Two three years ago the royal. Society in England decided to arrange a working party on machine learning. One of the things that they put together a a roundtable on machine learning professions resolved to talk about that night and I talked about the history of professions in technology and. and. I think one of the peculiar things that came out to in relation to law is that law. Has always been a sort of on its own. If you think about medicine, for example, medicines always had the teacher hospital institution that sort of straddles the academic quilt and the practice walls and brings those people together and as a result. INCORPORATES loss of, scientific, work. Engineering work as well computing work and things like that. And that's been the first teaching hospital king into existence in in the French revolution in Seventeen eighty-nine. A long history of that. If you look at law, there was nothing equivalent to that whatsoever and there is in fact, actually a big gap between what academy does on what the practitioners in your do so that As a result as before law has come to this a quite late but what we are. Finding I think is that Certainly the management consultancy finding is that because of the nature of a lot of what goes on in legal office a remarkable amount of it can be automated. So what we are getting now is companies setting themselves up to do this automated work. So. We have companies which do nothing but contract our instruction formation sort of company. The typical lawyer would would say to a client Do you WANNA contract classes. Yes I want this for this. And loyal galway draft contract back with it, and then in the con- comes back against as I need another contract, you go through the same process. which is good for the lawyer but not necessarily good kind. What we're finding now is the company's not can think of a few of them that will, in fact, go into the company's show order contracts. Let's see the entire. Corpus of contracts you've got there and they will analyze them. And basically say, all right. We can create a new contract in automated way fairly easily it may need some modification according to special circumstances but on the whole, it's fairly standard and and they can do that INNOVA systematic world meaning the contracts are reviewed that checked. If they're going to expire marketing, you want an unable just the system will cope with that if you're. Yeah. So yeah. No No. No so I was just going to say yes. So that the distinction you make, you know in terms education sort of systematic graduate level education that because as you say, it is low in one sense of soft proficient. You say in called professions like made it to text reengineering this team has a strong concern ensuring that expertise applied in the public interest when as low little bit different from from bad and economics in some sense sort of in the same same vein we have now made economics at really odd. of mathematics you know north of analytics there. Whether they are actually useful from policy making perspective is left to debate but at least it has been an attempt to make this make economic video hard. So so I don't know A. Fascination has been in in law I very much that will happen in law. Oh there things are beginning to happen I mean let me just boob. At. One example I learned in that workshop that I mentioned the Royal Society held. With somebody from the engineering profession talking about. The difference in skills between people who above forty I'm below forty he said. If he he was about Forty Years Austin design an aeroplane, takeout pen and paper Pencil, and paper and. I don't know anyone under forty could do that would know how to do that go onto a computer program undecided there. So you can see that the incorporation of technology into the academy through to the actual. Occupation. Than phones and things is is already a standard and they're in law. It isn't law. As you said, it's still very much a soft skill although I will argue that there is a difference between the way nor is viewed in different parts of the world. So in the United States A law is I think more tilted towards the sciences. So low in economics is one of the big things in the. US. So you got a lot of people working in the of lower economics who might go onto antitrust work no competition work and things like that which across a lot of economics, mathematics and Statistics and so on. In, say a Europe Australia and so on. Law is more allied towards the humanities. And the classics. So it doesn't have that kind of scientific underpinning in that way. So anything that's going to change in these parts if you like is going to be something that's going to be imported from outside. And is going to have a very dramatic impact when whether it does An and I think that's yet to happen. I don't think there's been sort of Cambrian explosion. If you like in in law, the will be one I'm sure but but law has an advantage over engineering economics or the other areas you might. That's With the nature of the rule of law and absent justice is since law as a a way of ordering society is absolutely crucial to everything else. Then, Law and lawyers will say will look you know we have a special status here is different amid leave engineer. We certainly want to make sure bridges stay up. We don't want down but we can design different kinds of bridges. We can design different kinds of legal bills, but they're also the fundamental rules If you want to you know if you're an engineering company and you want to build a bridge in a different country, you're going to have to do it on the basis of the legal rules, which will be just vise by the lawyers according to the country's there in so on. So in in that was what? I might put in a special category if you live. Yea. Yea. Let me let me push NBA John. So. The. The conference that you mentioned you know the Internet is under forty and engineers at. So so one could argue you know from an engineering perspective could argue e- It sexually dangerous. To not use machines to build aircraft the goes you know all the technology that cap today actually help us make the trap lot safer. granted. If you sit down with a blank sheet of paper and Pencil, you might get the principal right. But, but the technology has advanced so much that you really have to use. Technology to do so in some sense, engineering is pushed back. that. I argue this myself then they were naive engineering school. I had a V exposed at my daughter bent to school. She used the same physics book. Twenty, five. meter. I argue that that is sort of backward because data speed no need for an engineer to really learn Newtonian physics anymore because it is prescriptive, it's deterministic can make machines, learn it very quickly and so why spend all? Right. So so then you know if you think about the the law field. I wonder if there is a senior argument that is to say Dan and tape really good lawyer casts lot of intuitions dot expedients to crap something Contract or a discourse, but then maybe the machine scan actually do it even better We haven't really tested that hypothesis yet. Right be almost have this idea that humans are always dominant. Or machines but that the not be true as technology lancers. So what do you think about that in the in the? It's a very important point actually because the. American bosses. being modifying its ethical rules recently to say that lawyers have a duty and obligation to keep up to date with technology. So we already know the technology is now a an important part and I have to say when when I say the word technology, I mean this at all kinds of levels from what you can do with Microsoft word for example, it strays plug ins all the way up to artificial intelligence IBM, Watson, or something like that So that if if lawyers become. A. Uses of technology whether this small firms or big firms or what have you a under the Aba now they they actually have an obligation to make sure that they are up to date. They can't just say we didn't know what we were doing. So I think in that respect, there is a there was a move. The other move that is taking place is actually the push from from the clients. Now, this you have to look into ways one is with corporate clients. The corporation seen US lawyers have to use noise if you'd like want their work done. PHILOS- money on Chiba they wanted to more efficiently They don't want the best piece of work every time they want something that works and they want officiant. UTA A and so on. So it was interesting I think a few years ago. The General Counsel Cisco. Actually made a speech. Saying that he expected his. Lawyers Law firms who worked for the company to be reducing their fees year on year. Now, that's the opposite of what lawyers normally do, which is to raise them year on year. So say that that's one push which is. Very profound push now, coming from the client himselves who are using the beginning to use their procurement departments in in the companies and things like that to help purchase legal services the other aspects which is just as important in this is if you look at the role of lawyers and individuals. So if you is what access to to legal services, it's expensive lawyers are not cheap they charge our money We don't know how to judge the quality of their work and so on. because. There was a credence which we just know that So. On this is where technology can begin to step in and provide services which are. Efficient and often quite. what very well for the individual saying that this. Technology can be seen to be improving access to justice a Lotta people. Yeah. Yeah yes. I want to come back to this. John. I think this is a very important point. So bent on put has a lot of uncertainty. Uncertainty maybe not not the right term, but it's called deterministic. It shows beatty ability and so the determination of quality it's not as easy as hard media India nearing or. Right business economics legal all sorts of well foreign that category and the application of technology sort of a different different meaning there but I want to touch on one of the things that you say in the paper, and that is you mentioned this before and that's about training training the next generation. So you savior regulating bodies professions are involved in the collection and reproduction of knowledge intended to be used by the entire body professionals, and so there was an expectation here that you know seeing it professionals. Is Providing the wisdom that knowledge mission to train the next generation now in a technology driven. regime. discuss vacations right. Our expert is going to be a computer engineer in the future. And so so how does that work from from cleaning and knowledge Asian will I think this is This is a crucial issue in it's one which the profession hasn't. Really. Got To grips with yet I think because you think of technology in terms of Predictive analytics a document review and things like this most law schools are not preparing students for this they may be a a a a causal to on some aspect of technology, but it's not something which lawyers themselves are learning. So I think what is going to happen is we're going to find a blending of skills occurring. So law firms will be sense having to bring in a range of technologists who perhaps have. A scales a straddle, both sides of the lines, the lawyers like this too I think I think we're going to find an avangard Who will begin to develop skills that allow them to talk to both sides of the line, the tech people and? Below people if you likes and there will be people who will acquire develop these skills as well but that's that's still some way down the line I didn't think we're anywhere near there yet, and part of the reason for that I think is that you know law is still a very highly regulated profession and and the regulators themselves are in the same situation they are unsure about what is going to happen and they also feel they have an obligation to. Not only ensure that. Customers clients and consumers are protected but in some ways, the profession is protected to if you like so. You know it's it's a it's a fine balancing. There I. Think. It's a fight balancing act and you'd say if the changing changing things. So going back, you know you care as an individual eighteen status of expert. Some form of encapsulation of knowledge and analysis occurs enabling professional experts, derived diagnoses, decisions, and conclusion wrapped late. and you make some distinctions. Type of learning that. Human? Beings. That the distinction between doing drive and become a gift and laster Yes yes. Yes I think that's important. So the the the the principle behind this is that Individuals can acquire a lot of knowledge in in various areas. So as I say learning how to drive a car, you learn how to change gear you though with the speeds. Braking different rates, conditions, and things like that. So. If you WANNA take that further and become a formula one drive or something like that. Then you have to undergo a very different kind of training and that kind of thing becomes a lot more collective rather than individual because you start to you're you're going to be in a group that is gonna be doing a particular kind of our driving. If you like everybody in the group has to understand what each other is doing that group, you can't have people going right a racetrack at two hundred miles an hour or thinking individually feel like they have to have a collective consciousness. About. How to drive in that situation? That's nothing like how? You and I might drive. I'm not saying we bad drivers just saying spreading very different. So I think professional work is not. That different from this in a way. So once you you can go through school and you can do your law degree and you can learn your low. We can learn you engineering's this applies to or professions really. But in order to become a professional in order to become somebody who can operate function within that. Group if you like you then have yourself have to develop collective consciousness and and one way of thinking about it is that we we can kind of tacit knowledge. This assorted knowledge you learn on the job from people, which is not always articulated in a precise formulate kind way but it's something you pick up from the way. Somebody does something you just recognize aw that that's how they've done that might not be. Written down anywhere or anything like that. But you know that's different from now exiting differently from the way that wise doing I think X.'s doing it better I and you and you just, and you can absorb that. That's what I mean by this kind of tacit knowledge and that comes about from the professional context. As how the professional context develops becomes absolutely crucial to how you introduce new ways of doing things new my daddy's new skills new outlooks if you like and I. Think this is where we're on the cost of of this beginning to develop I mean we we know it's got to be done quite how it's going to be done. is yet to be. So. So let me make a statement John and I want I want your reaction to it so eat in hard sciences eight years against again medicine. Expertise has about a consistent happy of remorse. Whereas enor- economics and business in general, let's say expertise is not about the ability to apply rules but to deal with. and at and if that is true, it has lot of implications rate. It has implications as to how we might divide work. Between. And machine in the future. And the skills that universities need to impart on on on new graduates are also quite different. So I always argued in the business. engineering contexts that universities having changed the dog they get mentioned before they're using the same. Using the same. Out Thirty four years without asking the question are those skills relevant, anymore or more importantly watch. Really relevant for a human being in the future rate. do you agree with that that expertise assert more about dealing exceptions apply? Putting it actually. I. I can see the logic behind what you. Saying I think what distinguishes? A good professional whether it's a good engineer good architect or good lawyer or doctor is is somebody who has a certain? This may sound strange but it's the. Imagination. Creativity. about. Kind of flare that allows them to function on the nausea they they've got and developed over the years and the experience. Gathered from Nova pitching what they'd be doing over the years and so on, and it allows them to see around things in ways which they perhaps would. I can give you an example if you like a law. So I'm in in Germany and some other countries. For example, there's a particular way of bundling together mortgage securities I I won't go to detail about this, but this statute that enables you do it. And then you can sell these securities and get money. In certain countries, the UK, the US, and so on. This, NICI. So in a sense to put this kind of a a deal together it. Couldn't be done if you live. So a bank came to one of the large English law firms and said, look we wanted we want to replicate this in in the UK, want to set a market this we're not the statues off there. What can you do and what was interesting was that the law firm then went back to first principles lawyers who were looking at this went back I suppose they looked at some vape basic areas of law matter your trust. And contract from what have you? I'm from that they constructed elite supplement that looked very much like the one in Germany, but without stat sheet and they tested it and it worked. Out To be credibly successful. So much so that the German government started German legal profession started to complain because they said. You can only do this by statute and these we find a way of doing it three. I suppose using law and there it is an they were vowed shops by but that was a particular example if you like of of what you were talking about, they took the exceptions they went back to first principles and said you know or How would we get? This is where we gotta get to, and this is a way right at the beginning what are the steps we need to take and and? And that's what a good loyal will do if you. Right right? Yeah. So that's very important point. So you in your paper dawn as the DREYFUSS and rice note that the proficient performer immersed in the world of skillful activities sees what needs to be done. But decides how to do it. So as we move into a and other technologies, I think it's important point it is. Right from Dad benefactor culture we have been using humans as you mentioned before in lots of with meted activities big not designed for humans I would I would contend enjoy doing things over and over again, and if you had thought of doing that, yeah, because they have to do it for living right and so so we should be moving to word It would where anything that is with pita on delegated to the machine at automation in the bottom of that and Appealed autonation you can have intelligent automation you can have you know reinforcement learning those types of things you have some aspects of intelligence into the into the two. And deploy humans Don't Miss. They're really good at in some case. I'm. So you know we've been studying the green for ages be our no close. It feels to understand mother. Heck it does You know it's not neat learning it. Oh, BBC of. thirty years ago as see that person again, you could see you could you could have a feeling. Then you've seen that before and and what the brain has done actually not only as he that pattern but also age that matter intuitively for thirty years and say, yes, that face I, guess before. and. So there are some superpowers the brain has reaped have been applying the all all. So for a technology might allow. Look I. Think Technology will allow us to incredibly complex things without having to think about too much I. Mean if you look at the way a port functions, for example, any major port these days they've got millions of containers and ships going through them all the time. So there's a lot of paper going through the you those charter parties, bills of lading guarantees. So the lot of legal work that's being done it, it's all quite standard stuff. I mean everybody. KNOWS, what needs to be done and so on. Now, some people are beginning to think while the best way to handle a port if you like I for everybody should know is to put everything that's going on in the poor into a blockchain so that you can see the whole supply chain. You see when something comes in, you can determine when the goods are being offloaded. When they're being shipped, you can stop making the payments as a result of the. Operation of the smart contracts if you like, and the whole thing would be just one quite seamless. In some ways without that much human intervention really just need oversight Some bits of coordination so on. But at the moment is still a a lot of humans are vote in that shipping people, law people, all sorts of things which is. I think insane. That's a waste of resources. We know that there are people who have all kinds of problems that require that creative flair she like as so why waste money on the routine stuff when you could develop skills to the the real need if you like in that way? Yeah Yeah. So I, want that some that bit that John Blockchain, for example, as you mentioned. So so one reason especially in the professions like law and business humans have an advantage justice dimension of trust. and you know at least our generation we don't really. At eighty level, right. So so having that. Human human touch is still extremely important for us. Now, technologies like Blockchain, for example, actually allows that trust to be tensely decoupled, right? Yeah, and I think I think you're right. Look I. Think I mean one of the reasons we make contracts is because We, don't trust each other. So we we devised these documents with all the conditions in them. Something goes wrong. This is what will happen things like that and so on. What are the interesting things? You know people really rely on contracts are met you. You draw up a contract. And the to business people stick him in the drawer I never look at again less something really really fundamental goes wrong but they know sumit doesn't that never look at that again. So you say value of the contract, what did it actually do if you look at some of the Asian countries say like Taiwan or parts of China, you have a assistant coach Guanxi, which is where people developed effective relationships by knowing each other over a period of time around business that allows them to develop trust it. So You know there are different ways of of handling trust, but we we seem to spend a lot of time on trying to minimize something You know which we don't really do a lot of if you like. So I think one of the advantages of of blockchain is that it just it removes a lot of this from from the equation if there's certain things you know that can happen. as a result off if this thing that systems. Lead happened And you know. As, long as you've got oversight and you can see what's going on than. You don't need to be too concerned about it. It will just do what it needs to do in that way and So. Again. That's still very much in the early stages, but we are seeing situations where supply chains A shipping goods from one country to another can actually be done under smart contracts through a blockchain. Technology if you live. That that is now happening I associate goodful dealing with things like gum counterfeiting if you're. Producing. Particular high-quality could site move our phones or particular pharmaceutical products and so on you know it's one way of guaranteeing the quality of the product is you couldn't I say look you can examine the whole supply chain or the data is there. And you know his Eq- code look at it and you get the whole thing going all the way back The. Again, issues around that if you're dealing with the digital. Is Much easier once you start dealing with physical products then you have. A question of how do you get that first initial digitization of the physical if you'd like to goes on so though some people I know here in Australia who? Run A company called Beef Ledger, which is trying to export beef straight beef to China using the blockchain supply chain, which will. Guarantee the security, and the quality of the goods to the Chinese consumer APP because having problems with this before. But I will tell you now do doing something like that does require that the people you are dealing with. You're going to set this up with You have to have a trusting relationship with you before you can set up a technology that will do away with the So we're still in that. That's really early days. I think another a lot of time way to go right Yeah, but the technology works it. Clean potential one could argue contracts exist because they probably known performance if you have a technology that drives that probably the of non-performance zero, then you can actually get rid of for contract. Yeah limit. It is. Not. Goes back to that earlier point I made that. Most most contracts are fairly standard. You know a routine things they're there to. Record a series of transactions payments that have gone on between people without the to do much. If you like you know once you you're you're doing the business, the contract just kind of records that in perpetuity. So the small contract just takes that into a different area and an an actually does the whole implementation and execution without people to be involved in that too much and there's something goes wrong. But if it if it all goes right then back it is done you need to you don't you think about it Right. Yeah. Hasn't been jumping to another are forthcoming people globalization law at. A time of crisis in the? Global Lawyer and so in the say Nikolai Condom Nieve a Russian economists in the nineteen thirties believed the worst economy operates long sixty year cycles Then he called K. Braves. And you safeguarding coronavirus analysis, the fifth psycho young's from nineteen eighty to twenty thirty. It's you save twenty, nineteen forthcoming John You might have. I think so I think say because I, tell you off the what's happening this year I thought my good I couldn't My God. I was just. Owners because you know a contract device these waves up into into what he calls four seasons spring summer or winter at, and we're in the winter off this fifth cycle if you like this is. All the bad stuff happens and he's news war. Famine Disease I think wait a minute that sounds Yes yes. That's exactly right. A. But one of the interesting things about contractors was that you know he he a because he's A. Solid economists are installing a dip executed. By the way you know he he got fed up ninety that was the end of Nikolai unfortunately but he. He said instead of know if you like the ownership of the means of production are being the determinate for changeover from system system, he said it's it's technology and and that the technology will drive you out of the downswing of the last cycle into the upswing of the new cycle, and and the way that works is the win. You're in this kind of winter period because of the kind of economic. Gloom pervades if you like people tend to hold back in subsurface vestment in terms of technological innovation of what have you and so a lot of energy resources, resources, money capital if you like builds up to a second point when people say we're GONNA go for this is this is it? And that's when if you like technology comes to the fall on, really drives it forward. So from that perspective, what he's saying is that you know come right about twenty thirty. If. Things are going slowly now regarding technology they're going to speed up. In. This period and that's when it will. You know really also take take off and people have looked back over our preceding cycles and they've you know it works if you like not just their. Fantasy theory there are also the people who do Cleo dynamics in history these the quantitative historians and they've done a similar kind of analysis of historical periods and said, yeah, you know there are all these citrical. Processes that take place even revolutions occur and big upset occurs and what have you and and. One of their Perspectives which I find quite interesting is that they say one of the reasons for revolutions come about is caused a lease beginning to compete with each other and and an an I look at say trump in in America and I look at the Democrats and I I I would say Modine, India I look she in China and different groups of elites who are engaged really profound struggle for the future of their countries if you live. Out which again is leading to this kind of potential eruption of activity and a new ways of doing things. Yeah. It makes a lot of intuitive sense gone. So one way to think about this also. There are a lot of excesses. So innovating go good their excesses in the system people to believe that invincible they changed assumptions about. because they don't see any. and. Financial markets to right. So these cycles and real real mass that uniquely talking about you can see the. Happening in the financial markets more clearly. But what he's saying is that he happens mortgage and you ask in this paper in two thousand, nineteen for in many ways go. Crystallization off the settling ketone economic forces lost throat ear Kublai doomed as populous. Separates nationalism and lead clients and I think they have that we have probably the answer to that. But you see I think. One of the points I was trying to make an in in this paper walls that Global Law. If you like is is, is the a kind of synthesis off chaos? How do we bring some kind of order to chaos now once you start seeing the undermining? Of his global institutions, you see trump was withdrawn from the W. H. O.. He's he's are criticized NATO he he won't have the do with the International, Criminal Court and so we've got this kind of real life tension now between a an international legal order that's being built up since the Second World War both Ekit economic and legal order is Global And so we can't just a radical globalization I mean even even with covert, we can't eradicate mobilize ation we've got to. Handle covert the Kobe pandemic on a global basis. Otherwise, we'll. We're lost it retreats to a national. Approach is not gonNA. Work? We'll be defeated in that race is going to be global. Might. Be One of my questions in in paper was will who are the people who are going to be doing this? Kind of bringing the the order to chaos if you like and that made argument that it's got to be the global lawyer. And this is a person who not only understand their national legal system but also able to communicate with lawyers and officials. From around the world if you like. To be able to develop a kind of common. Language common discourse that enables them to stop putting these things together are, and it's not just a simple massa of saying mathematically, it works this way or not. It requires the kind of pulling together of people, but it requires that sort of common understanding which. Comes out of what I was saying about this idea of testing knowledge you know as you got this kind of professional consciousness you know how people ought to behave and how they will interact with you, and then that enables you to be out of bizarre to predict how you can do things and so on and so on. That basis I think we can operate kind of global order. It had a a below the institutional level if you're not kind of private. As opposed to the public according and that will put three. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah you know I the limit John I don't know if you think this way I limit one could as. Want to stay need for. Countries what does the need for legal system differentials? We set this up with the premise that it's easier to manage small chunks. one could also argue with Edmund Affect. -nology that you don't need to segment this debate that we have done. which might make these types of issues you know. See where you're coming from and I'm going to say yes or no? Yes, I think the home range of of questions that can be handled by the technology the ones we got pay I don't chain, etc. I don't I didn't see any issues there but there are a lot of decisions that needs to be made a book in terms of putting things together and resolve disputes that can only function at a human level because it's not. These are not decisions that are simple binary decisions. If you'd like, it's yes or no it's it's often a lot more nuance than complex about I mean, one of the resources in the World Kiva Zero System, the world amendment which is being fought over if you like is water, a water is probably one of the most valuable resources anywhere and it's you often find that rivers and things like that sort of flow between countries, they form borders. And and you are you know people if you look at the Nile, ESL start stopping in Sudan throwaway down to the Mediterranean. So he goes to countries all three countries, east European and then into Egypt's and so unwell well, who has the right to put it dime at a particular place and things like that all of that has to be cooled in act. You see a not going to be done at a human level that that's what caused the skills in negotiation judgment interpretation understanding if you like of the other people, no machine can do that I got. Yes before we conclude, I want to touch on one other thing So in the paper, you say as technology and culture intersect more and more. Ethical conundrums will intensify these raising questions about the rights and obligations of robots. And go beyond as moves. Three laws of robotics in two issues of rights of all moon. Algorithm, stem serves. So this is this is an area that be Kevin babies even even really form some notions allowed rights of all modes at rights of a are. Sai, gets more sophisticated. Yes. Yes. I do. I, mean I think this is one of the issues we already know some of the problems with algorithms and and you know can we can be are they transplanted from you see what's going on the ethical issues around the construction and implementation of algorithms and things like that. But I I I think looking into the future we all going to rely on things like robots. And various kinds of machines so much more so that if you look at a country like Japan, which is a a an aging population such that it doesn't have sufficient younger people to look after the people who need looking often. So machines, I'll be part of that, and that means people will stop forming real relationships with machines and and so that's when I would say. Okay. So let's think about how we View a potential rights of machine that we give. We give rise to humans. Yes. We know that we give rights to animals. Now we've also given rights to viz in forest in some countries as well as so machines I think our. Next logical step you know do we do we treat them with respect Let me give you one. Very classic example yet the production of. Robots for sex if you like is a major industry at the moment, some manufacturers say they want to program them say that people can act out rape fantasies will do we want that I? Mean you know should we be at first of all? You know? We should be having people behave in this particular kind of way, but even an uncertain if you do it against another human being, you'll be punished for it and you say we'll a machine is a piece of property you should be you should be doing that but I'm getting to think that maybe a machines should be treated with dignity say that we are treat ourselves with. Dixie. This a kind of reflexive situation here what we? Do to machines we do to each other, and they may again due to US depending on how they evolve and and move forward in that way is a very contentious issue. A lot of people would reject that right out of hand I agree I think we've got to stop thinking about stop dining forward because I. think we're going to at some point again. I. Don't know when. But at some point we will be having to deal with that. It's a it's a very important point. Joan. So if I understand you correctly, you know that the rights to animals the rights to inanimate. INANIMATE things like Lubers The recent those exist is because of its effects on humans and can see video a clear link in the future we would see a very clear link between a algorithms and robots ended affects on human. So this is not me You know each not fantasy in the sense that yeah, robots should have rights, but rather it's a more conceptual question. Any fraud did not have rights each going to cabin negative I I think that's absolutely true. I mean just to highlight that if you like this firm called Boston Dynamics that produces. Robots and they produced these videos of these. Now, these robots are resistant being pushed over and things like that, and it was quite interesting because a lot of people say all you can't treat them in this way. This is awful and so what I mean that that's the answer for more fighting to to the extreme extent. But it I think you know on the basis what you're saying, you know how we Oakland. Hold human beings accountable to each other in an increasingly complex world machines have become part of that. We can't just have them all sitting on the edge as though they're not part of who we are, what we are and how we do things. Right. So. Incursion Johnny fuel sort of look forward five years. At. The intersection of law and technology. But you think people see sort of the biggest. I. Think you'll see it two wins. On the you know for the individual The individual, you're going to see a lot of them just interacting. With artificial Tennessee, say lost questions about what my rights for this how do I deal with a tendency agreement? How do I complain against a producer company or something like that or that's going to be automated? is fairly straightforward to do and and it will only need A. Minimal. Amount of human inside of. An intervention if you like. At the other end at the. In I think we're GONNA see more and more technology coming in because as those basic functions that are. Being, carried out by junior people or or paralegals or things like that are the ones which are going to be increasing, automating creasing. I'm. We will replace the humans and just let machines do that because there's no point in wasting human resources on that whether that means we need fuel or more lawyers That's an open question I think it will that we need different kinds of lawyers We will need Roy Moore to logically aware much more sophisticated. They don't it's be programmers or odors or anything like that, but they need to have a quite a a a a strong understanding and gross what's going on in technology in that way if you like so. Yeah. We can definitely see an. Yeah, so I, think you mentioned the so from a structure perspective in all forum DC law firm sprucing to word. It a group of equity partners. Around it by machine so to speak well, I. Think. I was in that paper or another one I. I'm S-. Forecast. Law. Firms. Being. Distributed decentralized we'll tournaments organizations running on a blockchain with with the various people. into setting when they will no I. Think the law firm is still a very strong and powerful is Shutian, that's not gonNA disappear straight away. But certainly the numbers of partners who control things will shrink. They'll that will get smarter as proportion and yes, they will be surrounded by machines and they surrounded by people who are servicing those machines. Your excellent. Yeah. Thanks for doing this weekend. John really enjoyed the conversation. Thank you very much. It's been great fun and very

Policy Technology Economics Science Blockchain John Gill Eappen Eappen Queensland University Of Techn Blockchain Technologies Australia Griffith University India United States German Government Innova Bloomberg Inflammation Royal Society Brisbane John Blockchain Chiba
Dr. Mark Hoffman, Research Associate Professor at the University of Missouri, Kansas City - burst 01

Scientific Sense

44:57 min | 2 years ago

Dr. Mark Hoffman, Research Associate Professor at the University of Missouri, Kansas City - burst 01

"Welcome to the site of accents podcast. Where we explore emerging ideas from signs, policy economics, and technology. My name is Gill eappen. We talk with woods leading academics and experts about the recent research or generally of topical interest. Scientific senses at unstructured conversation with no agenda or preparation. Be Color a wide variety of domains red new discoveries are made. and New Technologies are developed on a daily basis. The most interested in how new Ideas Affect Society? And, help educate the world how to pursue rewarding and enjoyable life rooted in signs logic at inflammation. V seek knowledge without boundaries or constraints and provide unaided content of conversations bit researchers and leaders who low what they do. A companion blog to this podcast can be found at scientific sense dot com. And displayed guest is available on over a dozen platforms and directly at scientific sense. Dot? Net. If you have suggestions for topics, guests at other ideas. Please send up to info at scientific sense dot com. And I can be reached at Gil at eappen Dot Info. Mike yesterday's Dr Mark Hoffman, who is a research associate professor in the University of Minnesota Against City. He is also chief research inflammation officer in the children's Mussa hospital in Kansas City. Kiss research interests include health data delayed indication sharing initialisation Boca Mark. Thank you for inviting me. Absolutely. So I start with one of your papers Kato you need the use by our system implementation in defy date data resource from hundred known athlete off my seasons. So Michio inflicted. Data aggregated for marketable sources provide an important resource for my medical research including digital feel typing. On. Like. Todd beat to from a single organization. Guitar data introduces a number of analysis challengers. So. So you've worked with some augmentation log and in almost all cases be used. Data coming from that single macy's listen primary care behavioral. Or specialty hospitals and I always wondered you know wouldn't be nice. Get a data set. That sort of abrogates data from the radio on-ice. Asians but a lot of different challenges around that. So you wanted to talk a bit about that. I'd be happy to the resource that we've worked with. Is primarily a called health fax data resource. It's been in operation for almost twenty years. And the the the model is that organizations who are. Using these Turner Electronic. Health. Record. Enter into an agreement was turner they agreed to provide data rights to sern are. The identifies the date of affords aggregated into this resource. And certner provides data mapping, which is really critical to this type of work. It also the aggregate the data. And for the past probably six years. Then, they provide the full data set to especially academic contributors who want to do research with that resource. And I've been on both sides of that equation Lead that group during my career there, and then now I have the opportunity to really focus research on that type of data. So before we get into the details smog so e Itar Systems. So this is. Essentially patient records. So he gets dated like demographics out family history, surgical history hats, medications, lab solves it could have physician nodes no snow. So it's it's a combination of a variety of different types of data, right? A couple of things on the examples you gave it includes demographics. Discreet Laboratory results Medication orders. Many vitals so If access the blood pressure and pulse data. It does not include text notes because those can't be. Automatically identified consistently. So. We don't have access currently to TEX notes. Out of an abundance of caution. That his Hobby Stephen, physician writes something down they could use names they could use inflammation that could then point back to their. Patients Makita Perspective been the data's aggregated, the primary issue shoe that date has completely the identified, right? Correct. So. So yeah. So the data that we receive there's eighteen identifiers. Hip requires be removed from data. And those include obvious things like name address email addresses are another example One of the. Things. That is also part of the benefit of working with this particular resource. The. Dates of clinical service are not allowed to be provided under hip. White is done with this resource that allows us to still have a longitudinal view is. For any given patient in the data set the dates are shifted by A. Consistent. Pattern that for any given patient it can be. One two three four five weeks forward or one, two, three, four or five weeks backward. But that preserves things like day of the week effect. So for example, you see -nificant increase in emergency department encounters over weekends and you don't WanNa lose. Visibility to that. but it also allows us to receive. Very, granular early time stamped events in so. We can gain visibility into the time that a blood specimen was collected, and then the time that the result was reported back. And so we're able to do very detailed analyses with this type of resource. Right right and I don't know the audience our market is fragmented. Tau himself e Amorebieta providers out there. and so two issues. One is sort of. Standardization as to how these databases are designed and structured and others even that standardization that the actual collection of the data. In itself is not standardized played. So vk CAV vk potentially lot inability coming from different systems. Correct and that's part of what the paper that you mentioned Evaluates so. Often, night you out in the field in conferences you hear. Comparisons kind of lumping all organizations using one. Vendor lumping all using another together but as you get closer to it, you quickly learn that. It's not even clear. It's within those. Vendor markets. There's variation from organization to organization in how they use the e Hr and so. Because the identities of the. Contributing organizations are blinded to those of us who work with the data. We have to be creative about how we. Infer those implementation details, and so with this paper, we describe a couple of methods that We think move things forward towards that goal. Yes. So I'm not really familiar with that. So you mentioned a couple of things here. One is the the merge network. So this initiative including electric medical records and genomics network and pc off net the national patient, centered clinical research network support. Decentralized analyses that goes disparate systems by distributing standardized quotas to site. So this is a situation where you have multiple systems sort of. Communicating with each other and this net folks at allowing to sort of quickly them In some standardized fashion. So In this type of technology, there's janitorial core models. One is the. Federated or distributed model, the other is a centralized data aggregation. So there are examples including those that are mentioned in the paper where. Queries are pushed to the organization and. They need to do significant work upfront to ensure that there are standardizing their terminologies the same way. And once they do that upfront work than they're able to perform the types of queries that are distributed through those. Federated Networks. With. Okay. So that just one click on so that the police have standardized. So all on the at Josh site, then they have like some sort of a plan slater from from Stan Day squatty do all the data structure. And in many cases, they work through an intermediate technology. that would be. In general, consider it like a data warehouse. And so the queries are running against the production electric. Health record. That has all kinds of implications on patient care where you don't want to slow down performance. By using these intermediaries They can receive queries and then Follow that mapping has occurred. Than, they're able to to run those distributed queries. Okay. And the other model is You know. You say the g through the medical quality, improvement consortium and sooner to the health facts initiative. So this says in Sodas case, for example, in swags. This is essentially picking up data from the right deals, clients and Dan standardizing and centralizing data in a single database is that that is correct. One benefit of that model is that Organizations who for example, may not be academic and don't have the. Resources to do that data mapping themselves by handing out over that task over to the vendor you get a broader diversity of the types of organizations so you can have. A safety net hospitals you can have. Critical access rural hospitals, and other venues of care that are probably under represented in some of those. More academically driven models. And clearly the focus on healthcare about I would imagine applications in pharmaceutical out indeed to right I. Don't know if it s use and bad direction there has been some were performed with these data resources to. Characterize different aspects of medications, and so it does have utility in value. In a variety of. Analytical contexts. I was thinking about you know a lot of randomized clinical trials going on into Kuwait context and One of the issues of dispatch seem development toils that are going on that one could argue the population there are not really well to percents. it may be number by Auditees, men, people that deputy existing conditions. and. So he will serve at my come out of facedly trial. granted might work for the population. Tried it minority have sufficient? more largely. So I wanted this type of well I guess we don't really have an ID there right. So clearly, you don't know who these people are but they could be some clustering type analysis that might be interesting weight from It's very useful for Health Services Research and for outcomes research for you know what I characterize digital phenotype being. they can then guide. More, more formal research. you know you can use this type of resource to. Make sure. You're asking a useful question and make sure that there's likely to be. Enough patients who qualify for given study. Maybe you're working on a clinical trial in your casting your net to narrow you can. Determine that with this type of data resource. And is the eight tiff date who has access to it typically. So for this data resource on, it's through the vendor so. You need to have some level of footprint with them. which is the case with our organization. They're definitely a broadening their strategies. So they're. Gaining access into health systems that aren't exclusively using their electronic health records so. It's exciting to be a part of that that process. and to again work with them to. Analyze the data. I think. To the example you gave a formal randomized trials. In key part of what were growing our research to focus on is because this is real world data. You learn what's happening in practice whether or not it's well aligned with guidelines or formal protocols. And doing that there's many opportunities for near-term interventions that can improve health outcomes simply by. Identifying where providers may be deviating more from. Best Practices in than taking steps through training and education to kind of get them back towards those best practices. This data is a fresh on a daily basis. It's not. It's because it's so large and bulky? Typically we've received it on a quarterly basis in since it's retrospective analysis that's not been a major barrier. But. mechanistically, on onto soon aside is data getting sort of picked up from this system that it's harvested every day and then it's aggregated bundled and distributed on A. On a different timescale. Okay okay. So. From again, going to the, it's our system designed issue and implementation You say many HR systems comprised of more news at specific clinical processes or unit such as Pharmacy Laboratory or surgery talked about that. But then then people implement them this of fashion right they they implement modules by that can be a factor or sometimes they may want. One vendor for their primary electronic health record, but another vendor for their laboratory system. and so that's where you don't see a hundred percent usage of every module and every organization. And detailed number of different you know sort of noise creating issues in data one. This is icy speech over from ICT denied ten. and I don't know history of this but this was supposed to be speech with sometime in twenty fifteen. That's correct. So there is A. You know. There's a date in October of Twenty fifteen where most organizations were expected to have completed that transition. When I see with researchers who aren't as familiar with the you know the whole policy landscape around `electronic health records that? you can imagine researchers who assumed that all data before that date in October is is nine and all data after that date would be icy the ten. While we demonstrate in this paper, is that that transition was not Nearly, that clean and it was a much more, you know there are some organizations who just It the bullet and completed in twenty fourteen, and there are other organizations that were still lagging. In. Two Thousand Sixteen. Potentially because they weren't as exposed to those incentives in other things that you know stipulated the transition so. Part of why were demonstrating with that particular part of that work was that. you know these transitions aren't always abrupt. Yeah and and and so that is one issue and then you know a lot of consistency inconsistency issues fade. So we see that in in single systems and one of the items note here as you know if you think about the disposition code for death. you could have a right your race supercenter, right? It's a death expire expedite at home hospice, and so on. if this is a problem for a single system, but then many think about aggregating data from multiple sources this this problem sort of increased exponentially. Absolutely. So one of the challenges with documenting and and finding where you know if a patient has A deceased that. There's just multiple places to put that documentation in the clinical record. The Location in the record that. We have found to be the most consistent is what's called discharge disposition. By as we show in that analysis, that field is not always used document that and so if you're doing outcomes research and one of your key. Outcome metrics is death. And there are organizations that. Aren't documenting death in a place that successful. You should filter those out of your analysis before moving forward. And so part of what we wanted to promote is the realization that. That's the type of consideration that needs to be made The four. Publishing. Your data about an outcome metrics like death that. You're not. If you're never gonNA see that outcome it doesn't mean that people are. Dying in that particular facility, it just means it's not documented in the place that successful. Right. Yeah. So you know you on your expedience. Unique Position Mark because you you look at it from the from the vendor's perspective you're in an academic setting you're also in practice in a hospital. What's your sense of these things improving the on a track of getting getting this more standardize or it's camping in the other direction I think in general there is improvement I think The. Over the past eleven years through various federal mandates, including meaningful use and so forth. Those of all incentive organizations to utilize. Standard terminologies more consistently than was the case beforehand. I think there's still plenty of room for improvement and You know it's it's a journey, not a destination, but I think things have improved substantially. I was wondering there could be some applications of artificial intelligence here to In a clearly TATECO systems and you'd like the most them pity human resource intensive Yvonne to get it completely right. So one question would be you know, could be actually used a Dick needs to get it maybe ninety nine percent white. And that the human deal with exceptions I definitely think that that's an exciting direction that You want those a algorithms to be trained with good data, and that's a big part of what's motivated us to. Put this focus on data quality and Understanding these strange nuances that are underpinning that date has so that. As we move towards a in machine learning and so forth. We have a high level of confidence in the data that's training those algorithms. Right. Yeah. I think that a huge opportunity here because it's not quite as broad as NFL, not natural language processing it is somewhat constrained. that is a good part of it. The back part of it is that is highly technical. and so. you know some of the techniques you know you can have a fault tolerance in certain dimensions such as you know, misspellings lack of gambling and things like that. But as you have Heidi technical data, you cannot apply those principles because he could have misspelling the system may not be able to. Get, sometimes, and that's where you know I think. It's totally feasible to use. Resources to you know when you're dealing with. Tens of millions of patients and billions of detailed records. Using a I'd even identify those patterns of either. Inconsistent data or missing data it's also very powerful just to. kind of flag in identified. Areas that need to be focused on to lead to a better analysis. Greg Wait Be Hefty. Use that information somehow did is a belt of information that you know and so it just filtering into decision processes that the are really losing it. So hopefully getting improving in that dimension I've jumping to another paper bittersweet interesting. So it's entitled rates and predictors of using opioids in the Emergency Department Katrina Treat Mike Dean in Young Otto's and so so this is sort of a machine learning exercise you have gone through to locate you know coup is getting prescribed. OPIOIDS water the conditions for the Democrat not Nestle demographics but different different maybe age and things like that gender. and and then ask the question desert has some effect on addiction. In the long term rights. So that project To great example of team science though. We. Assembled a team of subject matter experts in neurology pain management. And Data Science and. The neurologist and pain management experts. Identified an intriguing question that we decided to pursue with data. In their question was. Based on anecdotal observation and so we thought it'd be interesting to see how well the data supported that. Observation is that. for youth and young adults Treated or admitted into the emergency. Department. With a migraine headache that. All too often they were treated with an opioid. And so we Use the same day to resource that we were discussing earlier. To explore that. Question. And using data from a hundred and eighty distinct emergency departments. We found that on average twenty, three percent of those youth and young adults were treated with. An opioid medication while they were in the emergency department. In general, it should be almost zero percent in general. There's really Better medications to us, four people presenting with a migraine. and. So this fits into obviously the OPIOID crisis it. it demonstrates the. Scenario describing that. You know using real world data. You can identify patterns of clinical behavior that. Don't match guideline. And the good news is that the? correctable and so through. Training and communication there's great opportunity to. To, manage this. Really. Striking. So fifteen thousand or so inevitably the encounters. And nearly a quarter of this encounters you say involved inoculate. and these are not just Misha and Congress right. It is not filtered down to migraine encounters. Okay. Okay. So these fifteen thousand just might in encounters might vein being repeating disease So once you. If you make a statement and. This or not Easter conditioning issue here. So you get your pain, you go to an emergency department and you get treated with an opioid you get quick tactical relief. From pain. auditing condition expect that in the next episode. So you can say we didn't pursue that particular question, but that is Definitely key part of. Managing the OPIOID crisis is that drug seeking behavior and so Part of our goal was to quantify that and use this as an opportunity to educate providers that. You really shouldn't be treating migraines with an opioid in there are better alternatives and. So we we felt that this was an important contribution to that national dialogue, but we didn't specifically pursue the question of whether the patients we analyzed. Within. Encounter show up Subsequently. With the same symptoms. Right right. Yeah you it develop into period when problematic patterns of drug use comedy. FEST MERGE THE PREVALENCE RATE OF OPIOID misuse estimated to be two to four percent and debts in each goofy just young adult drew from overdoses are rising. and. You say that literally prescribe IOS has been slumping loose future opioid misuse by thirty three percent. Betas Mehta say really huge number. I think just validates the importance of this of this work. Interesting mark. I don't know you exploded on data. Last the question if you look at the aggregate data, it'd be flying opioid. Misuse. what percentage of the total number. Actually started from. You know some sort of medical encounter has mike or some sort of. related encounter that could be completed otherwise was three a bit opioid. in that encounter documented resulted in that misuse. So what so If you look at the active misuse problem that we have today. do you have a sense of what percentage of that goal is actually started I? Think the exciting thing about this type of research is for everyone questioned that you pursue you have. You have ten new that you can pursue. We haven't. Delved into that specific area, but it's It's very ripe for further analysis and A considerable part of where I end my colleagues and our time as. We do this type of work to get an initial analysis published. And then You know in my leadership role I just WANNA. support people like my colleagues on this paper Mark Connelly Jennifer Bickel. in in using data to. Support their research into identify those follow. I mean, he tests policy implications. So it's sweet important work. and. If you find it direct relationship here than you have to ask you know from from a medical perspective what is right intervention? maybe is not just added of care just best practice but clearly should be the bay You know things should be looked at you say you're American Academy of Neurology has included avoidance of using opioid to treat gain one of stop top flight choosing wisely recommendations. For high-value duck in this gives Really evidence to to support that. The other thing that's really intriguing is this level of variation from site to site in. Some Sun facilities are very much aligned with the guidelines. Others are at the you know well, above twenty three percent. And that gives an opportunity for a really precision. conversations about you know, where does our organization stand on that spectrum? Yeah that's a that's an interesting avenue to right. So you know one could ask he says some sort of push sliced Intervention if we can fly goal of patients who who had gone an opioid sexually don't have an addiction problem. that as you know Anna, the kofoed does. if you can fly those type of patterns than you can think about. A customized within electronic health record systems. There's. The ability to provide decisions poor. There's certainly phenomena called pop up fatigue were physicians. You know they don't like having so many pop up windows but at the same time. It's Within the capability of an e e Hr to do that if then logic if patient has. migraine medication order equals opioid. encourage the provider to pause and reconsider that. Right, right and so this is supervised machine learning type analysis where so you have. you have number features that comes directly from each else. So each sex race ethnicity. insurance type. Encounter prostate suggest duration. time of the year and so on. and you have labeled data in this case I guess you have able tater because you would know if op- inscribed on trade. Okay and so are the two questions here. One is to ask the question given a new patient and those features. you could assign a probability that that patient will be prescribed will. Definitely. Impress the data from that predictive Minds. Right and then can you so that data definitely tell you if the patient is going to progress into some sort of an addiction issue. So. Earn Predicting Substance Abuse. So. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There's additional diagnosis codes that document. whether a patient has a history of substance abuse disorder. and. So it would be feasible to. Identify the with those diagnosis codes in than really look at their prior history. Of What other conditions were they treated for? What medications were they give in? to develop that model. One of the things in this case that helped with this study is that just in general, it's not advised get. So there are other things that are much more of a gray area. Or whether opioid is as useful, but in this case. The really not. Considered. To be helpful for migraines compared to other options and so that help us have a fairly clear cut scenario to do this work. Yeah. This this won't be the data like you say once you do something like this, you have been other things you could. You could stop asking. So unquestioned that that been to my mind as you know, how did they hugged the actually prescribing opioids? Is it the patient asking for it all so? Off that was another scoping thing with this project is focused on what happens within the emergency. Room. So it's it's. Really, medication order in administration that happens. In that emergency room setting. Whether or not the patient. was. Requesting that you know if they came in and said, this has worked for me before. Can I have it again? we don't have visibility to that. Right. Right. And so from a practical perspective So the the analysis that you did slightly ended up with the Family Clyde power we think it is. Compelling. Pretty compelling. So as as a new patient gets into e D either high. and what I mean by that probably is if there is a history of substance abuse property. the physician has really think twice about. The use of may be the well, and in this case, even without that history. Just because it's not considered to be an effective treatment. You know encouraging them to pause in that decision making. In this particular case is as effective as wall. Right. So looking forward. In if you think about both of these issues, one is the data quality data aggregation data standardized recent problem in the the right of Utah Systems have did that the talked about? And then if we can get to a level that we can look at cross a large data set. Beacon, ask. More. US specific questions, treatment. Optimum treatment type questions. subpoenaed. US The mark big think B be hunting. Certainly, the volume and variety of data that we're able to work with will be even greater I, think the. Opportunity To. Look, holistically at how upstream data capture. Effects Downstream data. Analysis. example I frequently give is if we have a Aggregate Data said we identify. Ten patients whose way in that data such shows up as being. Something that's completely infeasible. let's say they're documented is being. Fifty year old person who weighs two pounds. Clearly air. What's important is? Creating the process to communicate that back upstream. Because that clinical decision. Support. Many drug dosing things are evaluated using weight based logic and so. That same logic that's Evaluating the appropriateness of dosage. It's going to be running against an incorrect value in that may or may not always be visible. So I really am intrigued with that holistic opportunity. In it I am I remain just we have three or four additional papers coming out. About other examples where Provider behaviors not aligned with Best Practices and I'm just excited about you know when you compare that to how long it takes to develop a new drug or how long it takes to. To a really long term research. This research has the opportunity for a pretty quick turnaround on an effective intervention. A really that. Other so much that right. Providers. been taught in a no, but they're. Not always using that in practice and so to help them. Identify, those topics in just modifying behaviors is. In the scheme of things, it's a very straightforward way to improve. So. You know the entire spectrum from essentially getting the data. Right or cleaner like you know Missa mischaracterized or miss input data like wait or something like that. To to get. Better diagnosis better treatment modalities. policies there and from a femme perspective clearly inflammation therefore clinical trials. I was even thinking about drug interaction type. Inflammation. I haven't been involved in the former de for awhile but. Typically, this type of data doesn't get back into automatic processes that fast but I think that is all I know there's strong interest in Pharma in. Working with this type of data there a again looking at real world behavior. This is an excellent resource for off label medication use at. you know where Pharma's Always interested in repurposing existing medications the. Regulatory Processes, much more straightforward for that because the safety is already been. Evaluated and so. The. Significant Opportunity With this, there's also just exciting. Patterns of you know. What are those unrecognised correlations? That's where the machine learning opportunities are really exciting where. You know we're not always asking the right question. And the data can show us what we should be. Yeah exactly. So if the machine a sort of red flags something or create hypotheses. that Cubans have missed sometimes, those types of things are extremely powerful. because maybe that sometimes it's countering tutor. and so we all look at data with an Incan bias. The beauty of machines that at least on the surface began deploy Michigan. This volume of data. Techniques like machine deep learning can recognize those subtle but consistent associations. Wait quite. Excellent. Idea this has been great mark Thanks so much time with me. I enjoyed it very much. Thank you. But

Policy Technology Economics Science Gill Eappen Mike Yesterday Dr Mark Hoffman Children's Mussa Hospital Turner Electronic Certner Migraine Inflammation Federated Networks Stan Day Squatty Michio Kato University Of Minnesota Makita GIL Federated Kansas City
Dr. Mark Hoffman, Research Associate Professor at the University of Missouri, Kansas City - burst 01

Scientific Sense

44:57 min | 2 years ago

Dr. Mark Hoffman, Research Associate Professor at the University of Missouri, Kansas City - burst 01

"Welcome to the site of accents podcast. Where we explore emerging ideas from signs, policy economics, and technology. My name is Gill eappen. We talk with woods leading academics and experts about the recent research or generally of topical interest. Scientific senses at unstructured conversation with no agenda or preparation. Be Color a wide variety of domains red new discoveries are made. and New Technologies are developed on a daily basis. The most interested in how new Ideas Affect Society? And, help educate the world how to pursue rewarding and enjoyable life rooted in signs logic at inflammation. V seek knowledge without boundaries or constraints and provide unaided content of conversations bit researchers and leaders who low what they do. A companion blog to this podcast can be found at scientific sense dot com. And displayed guest is available on over a dozen platforms and directly at scientific sense. Dot? Net. If you have suggestions for topics, guests at other ideas. Please send up to info at scientific sense dot com. And I can be reached at Gil at eappen Dot Info. Mike yesterday's Dr Mark Hoffman, who is a research associate professor in the University of Minnesota Against City. He is also chief research inflammation officer in the children's Mussa hospital in Kansas City. Kiss research interests include health data delayed indication sharing initialisation Boca Mark. Thank you for inviting me. Absolutely. So I start with one of your papers Kato you need the use by our system implementation in defy date data resource from hundred known athlete off my seasons. So Michio inflicted. Data aggregated for marketable sources provide an important resource for my medical research including digital feel typing. On. Like. Todd beat to from a single organization. Guitar data introduces a number of analysis challengers. So. So you've worked with some augmentation log and in almost all cases be used. Data coming from that single macy's listen primary care behavioral. Or specialty hospitals and I always wondered you know wouldn't be nice. Get a data set. That sort of abrogates data from the radio on-ice. Asians but a lot of different challenges around that. So you wanted to talk a bit about that. I'd be happy to the resource that we've worked with. Is primarily a called health fax data resource. It's been in operation for almost twenty years. And the the the model is that organizations who are. Using these Turner Electronic. Health. Record. Enter into an agreement was turner they agreed to provide data rights to sern are. The identifies the date of affords aggregated into this resource. And certner provides data mapping, which is really critical to this type of work. It also the aggregate the data. And for the past probably six years. Then, they provide the full data set to especially academic contributors who want to do research with that resource. And I've been on both sides of that equation Lead that group during my career there, and then now I have the opportunity to really focus research on that type of data. So before we get into the details smog so e Itar Systems. So this is. Essentially patient records. So he gets dated like demographics out family history, surgical history hats, medications, lab solves it could have physician nodes no snow. So it's it's a combination of a variety of different types of data, right? A couple of things on the examples you gave it includes demographics. Discreet Laboratory results Medication orders. Many vitals so If access the blood pressure and pulse data. It does not include text notes because those can't be. Automatically identified consistently. So. We don't have access currently to TEX notes. Out of an abundance of caution. That his Hobby Stephen, physician writes something down they could use names they could use inflammation that could then point back to their. Patients Makita Perspective been the data's aggregated, the primary issue shoe that date has completely the identified, right? Correct. So. So yeah. So the data that we receive there's eighteen identifiers. Hip requires be removed from data. And those include obvious things like name address email addresses are another example One of the. Things. That is also part of the benefit of working with this particular resource. The. Dates of clinical service are not allowed to be provided under hip. White is done with this resource that allows us to still have a longitudinal view is. For any given patient in the data set the dates are shifted by A. Consistent. Pattern that for any given patient it can be. One two three four five weeks forward or one, two, three, four or five weeks backward. But that preserves things like day of the week effect. So for example, you see -nificant increase in emergency department encounters over weekends and you don't WanNa lose. Visibility to that. but it also allows us to receive. Very, granular early time stamped events in so. We can gain visibility into the time that a blood specimen was collected, and then the time that the result was reported back. And so we're able to do very detailed analyses with this type of resource. Right right and I don't know the audience our market is fragmented. Tau himself e Amorebieta providers out there. and so two issues. One is sort of. Standardization as to how these databases are designed and structured and others even that standardization that the actual collection of the data. In itself is not standardized played. So vk CAV vk potentially lot inability coming from different systems. Correct and that's part of what the paper that you mentioned Evaluates so. Often, night you out in the field in conferences you hear. Comparisons kind of lumping all organizations using one. Vendor lumping all using another together but as you get closer to it, you quickly learn that. It's not even clear. It's within those. Vendor markets. There's variation from organization to organization in how they use the e Hr and so. Because the identities of the. Contributing organizations are blinded to those of us who work with the data. We have to be creative about how we. Infer those implementation details, and so with this paper, we describe a couple of methods that We think move things forward towards that goal. Yes. So I'm not really familiar with that. So you mentioned a couple of things here. One is the the merge network. So this initiative including electric medical records and genomics network and pc off net the national patient, centered clinical research network support. Decentralized analyses that goes disparate systems by distributing standardized quotas to site. So this is a situation where you have multiple systems sort of. Communicating with each other and this net folks at allowing to sort of quickly them In some standardized fashion. So In this type of technology, there's janitorial core models. One is the. Federated or distributed model, the other is a centralized data aggregation. So there are examples including those that are mentioned in the paper where. Queries are pushed to the organization and. They need to do significant work upfront to ensure that there are standardizing their terminologies the same way. And once they do that upfront work than they're able to perform the types of queries that are distributed through those. Federated Networks. With. Okay. So that just one click on so that the police have standardized. So all on the at Josh site, then they have like some sort of a plan slater from from Stan Day squatty do all the data structure. And in many cases, they work through an intermediate technology. that would be. In general, consider it like a data warehouse. And so the queries are running against the production electric. Health record. That has all kinds of implications on patient care where you don't want to slow down performance. By using these intermediaries They can receive queries and then Follow that mapping has occurred. Than, they're able to to run those distributed queries. Okay. And the other model is You know. You say the g through the medical quality, improvement consortium and sooner to the health facts initiative. So this says in Sodas case, for example, in swags. This is essentially picking up data from the right deals, clients and Dan standardizing and centralizing data in a single database is that that is correct. One benefit of that model is that Organizations who for example, may not be academic and don't have the. Resources to do that data mapping themselves by handing out over that task over to the vendor you get a broader diversity of the types of organizations so you can have. A safety net hospitals you can have. Critical access rural hospitals, and other venues of care that are probably under represented in some of those. More academically driven models. And clearly the focus on healthcare about I would imagine applications in pharmaceutical out indeed to right I. Don't know if it s use and bad direction there has been some were performed with these data resources to. Characterize different aspects of medications, and so it does have utility in value. In a variety of. Analytical contexts. I was thinking about you know a lot of randomized clinical trials going on into Kuwait context and One of the issues of dispatch seem development toils that are going on that one could argue the population there are not really well to percents. it may be number by Auditees, men, people that deputy existing conditions. and. So he will serve at my come out of facedly trial. granted might work for the population. Tried it minority have sufficient? more largely. So I wanted this type of well I guess we don't really have an ID there right. So clearly, you don't know who these people are but they could be some clustering type analysis that might be interesting weight from It's very useful for Health Services Research and for outcomes research for you know what I characterize digital phenotype being. they can then guide. More, more formal research. you know you can use this type of resource to. Make sure. You're asking a useful question and make sure that there's likely to be. Enough patients who qualify for given study. Maybe you're working on a clinical trial in your casting your net to narrow you can. Determine that with this type of data resource. And is the eight tiff date who has access to it typically. So for this data resource on, it's through the vendor so. You need to have some level of footprint with them. which is the case with our organization. They're definitely a broadening their strategies. So they're. Gaining access into health systems that aren't exclusively using their electronic health records so. It's exciting to be a part of that that process. and to again work with them to. Analyze the data. I think. To the example you gave a formal randomized trials. In key part of what were growing our research to focus on is because this is real world data. You learn what's happening in practice whether or not it's well aligned with guidelines or formal protocols. And doing that there's many opportunities for near-term interventions that can improve health outcomes simply by. Identifying where providers may be deviating more from. Best Practices in than taking steps through training and education to kind of get them back towards those best practices. This data is a fresh on a daily basis. It's not. It's because it's so large and bulky? Typically we've received it on a quarterly basis in since it's retrospective analysis that's not been a major barrier. But. mechanistically, on onto soon aside is data getting sort of picked up from this system that it's harvested every day and then it's aggregated bundled and distributed on A. On a different timescale. Okay okay. So. From again, going to the, it's our system designed issue and implementation You say many HR systems comprised of more news at specific clinical processes or unit such as Pharmacy Laboratory or surgery talked about that. But then then people implement them this of fashion right they they implement modules by that can be a factor or sometimes they may want. One vendor for their primary electronic health record, but another vendor for their laboratory system. and so that's where you don't see a hundred percent usage of every module and every organization. And detailed number of different you know sort of noise creating issues in data one. This is icy speech over from ICT denied ten. and I don't know history of this but this was supposed to be speech with sometime in twenty fifteen. That's correct. So there is A. You know. There's a date in October of Twenty fifteen where most organizations were expected to have completed that transition. When I see with researchers who aren't as familiar with the you know the whole policy landscape around `electronic health records that? you can imagine researchers who assumed that all data before that date in October is is nine and all data after that date would be icy the ten. While we demonstrate in this paper, is that that transition was not Nearly, that clean and it was a much more, you know there are some organizations who just It the bullet and completed in twenty fourteen, and there are other organizations that were still lagging. In. Two Thousand Sixteen. Potentially because they weren't as exposed to those incentives in other things that you know stipulated the transition so. Part of why were demonstrating with that particular part of that work was that. you know these transitions aren't always abrupt. Yeah and and and so that is one issue and then you know a lot of consistency inconsistency issues fade. So we see that in in single systems and one of the items note here as you know if you think about the disposition code for death. you could have a right your race supercenter, right? It's a death expire expedite at home hospice, and so on. if this is a problem for a single system, but then many think about aggregating data from multiple sources this this problem sort of increased exponentially. Absolutely. So one of the challenges with documenting and and finding where you know if a patient has A deceased that. There's just multiple places to put that documentation in the clinical record. The Location in the record that. We have found to be the most consistent is what's called discharge disposition. By as we show in that analysis, that field is not always used document that and so if you're doing outcomes research and one of your key. Outcome metrics is death. And there are organizations that. Aren't documenting death in a place that successful. You should filter those out of your analysis before moving forward. And so part of what we wanted to promote is the realization that. That's the type of consideration that needs to be made The four. Publishing. Your data about an outcome metrics like death that. You're not. If you're never gonNA see that outcome it doesn't mean that people are. Dying in that particular facility, it just means it's not documented in the place that successful. Right. Yeah. So you know you on your expedience. Unique Position Mark because you you look at it from the from the vendor's perspective you're in an academic setting you're also in practice in a hospital. What's your sense of these things improving the on a track of getting getting this more standardize or it's camping in the other direction I think in general there is improvement I think The. Over the past eleven years through various federal mandates, including meaningful use and so forth. Those of all incentive organizations to utilize. Standard terminologies more consistently than was the case beforehand. I think there's still plenty of room for improvement and You know it's it's a journey, not a destination, but I think things have improved substantially. I was wondering there could be some applications of artificial intelligence here to In a clearly TATECO systems and you'd like the most them pity human resource intensive Yvonne to get it completely right. So one question would be you know, could be actually used a Dick needs to get it maybe ninety nine percent white. And that the human deal with exceptions I definitely think that that's an exciting direction that You want those a algorithms to be trained with good data, and that's a big part of what's motivated us to. Put this focus on data quality and Understanding these strange nuances that are underpinning that date has so that. As we move towards a in machine learning and so forth. We have a high level of confidence in the data that's training those algorithms. Right. Yeah. I think that a huge opportunity here because it's not quite as broad as NFL, not natural language processing it is somewhat constrained. that is a good part of it. The back part of it is that is highly technical. and so. you know some of the techniques you know you can have a fault tolerance in certain dimensions such as you know, misspellings lack of gambling and things like that. But as you have Heidi technical data, you cannot apply those principles because he could have misspelling the system may not be able to. Get, sometimes, and that's where you know I think. It's totally feasible to use. Resources to you know when you're dealing with. Tens of millions of patients and billions of detailed records. Using a I'd even identify those patterns of either. Inconsistent data or missing data it's also very powerful just to. kind of flag in identified. Areas that need to be focused on to lead to a better analysis. Greg Wait Be Hefty. Use that information somehow did is a belt of information that you know and so it just filtering into decision processes that the are really losing it. So hopefully getting improving in that dimension I've jumping to another paper bittersweet interesting. So it's entitled rates and predictors of using opioids in the Emergency Department Katrina Treat Mike Dean in Young Otto's and so so this is sort of a machine learning exercise you have gone through to locate you know coup is getting prescribed. OPIOIDS water the conditions for the Democrat not Nestle demographics but different different maybe age and things like that gender. and and then ask the question desert has some effect on addiction. In the long term rights. So that project To great example of team science though. We. Assembled a team of subject matter experts in neurology pain management. And Data Science and. The neurologist and pain management experts. Identified an intriguing question that we decided to pursue with data. In their question was. Based on anecdotal observation and so we thought it'd be interesting to see how well the data supported that. Observation is that. for youth and young adults Treated or admitted into the emergency. Department. With a migraine headache that. All too often they were treated with an opioid. And so we Use the same day to resource that we were discussing earlier. To explore that. Question. And using data from a hundred and eighty distinct emergency departments. We found that on average twenty, three percent of those youth and young adults were treated with. An opioid medication while they were in the emergency department. In general, it should be almost zero percent in general. There's really Better medications to us, four people presenting with a migraine. and. So this fits into obviously the OPIOID crisis it. it demonstrates the. Scenario describing that. You know using real world data. You can identify patterns of clinical behavior that. Don't match guideline. And the good news is that the? correctable and so through. Training and communication there's great opportunity to. To, manage this. Really. Striking. So fifteen thousand or so inevitably the encounters. And nearly a quarter of this encounters you say involved inoculate. and these are not just Misha and Congress right. It is not filtered down to migraine encounters. Okay. Okay. So these fifteen thousand just might in encounters might vein being repeating disease So once you. If you make a statement and. This or not Easter conditioning issue here. So you get your pain, you go to an emergency department and you get treated with an opioid you get quick tactical relief. From pain. auditing condition expect that in the next episode. So you can say we didn't pursue that particular question, but that is Definitely key part of. Managing the OPIOID crisis is that drug seeking behavior and so Part of our goal was to quantify that and use this as an opportunity to educate providers that. You really shouldn't be treating migraines with an opioid in there are better alternatives and. So we we felt that this was an important contribution to that national dialogue, but we didn't specifically pursue the question of whether the patients we analyzed. Within. Encounter show up Subsequently. With the same symptoms. Right right. Yeah you it develop into period when problematic patterns of drug use comedy. FEST MERGE THE PREVALENCE RATE OF OPIOID misuse estimated to be two to four percent and debts in each goofy just young adult drew from overdoses are rising. and. You say that literally prescribe IOS has been slumping loose future opioid misuse by thirty three percent. Betas Mehta say really huge number. I think just validates the importance of this of this work. Interesting mark. I don't know you exploded on data. Last the question if you look at the aggregate data, it'd be flying opioid. Misuse. what percentage of the total number. Actually started from. You know some sort of medical encounter has mike or some sort of. related encounter that could be completed otherwise was three a bit opioid. in that encounter documented resulted in that misuse. So what so If you look at the active misuse problem that we have today. do you have a sense of what percentage of that goal is actually started I? Think the exciting thing about this type of research is for everyone questioned that you pursue you have. You have ten new that you can pursue. We haven't. Delved into that specific area, but it's It's very ripe for further analysis and A considerable part of where I end my colleagues and our time as. We do this type of work to get an initial analysis published. And then You know in my leadership role I just WANNA. support people like my colleagues on this paper Mark Connelly Jennifer Bickel. in in using data to. Support their research into identify those follow. I mean, he tests policy implications. So it's sweet important work. and. If you find it direct relationship here than you have to ask you know from from a medical perspective what is right intervention? maybe is not just added of care just best practice but clearly should be the bay You know things should be looked at you say you're American Academy of Neurology has included avoidance of using opioid to treat gain one of stop top flight choosing wisely recommendations. For high-value duck in this gives Really evidence to to support that. The other thing that's really intriguing is this level of variation from site to site in. Some Sun facilities are very much aligned with the guidelines. Others are at the you know well, above twenty three percent. And that gives an opportunity for a really precision. conversations about you know, where does our organization stand on that spectrum? Yeah that's a that's an interesting avenue to right. So you know one could ask he says some sort of push sliced Intervention if we can fly goal of patients who who had gone an opioid sexually don't have an addiction problem. that as you know Anna, the kofoed does. if you can fly those type of patterns than you can think about. A customized within electronic health record systems. There's. The ability to provide decisions poor. There's certainly phenomena called pop up fatigue were physicians. You know they don't like having so many pop up windows but at the same time. It's Within the capability of an e e Hr to do that if then logic if patient has. migraine medication order equals opioid. encourage the provider to pause and reconsider that. Right, right and so this is supervised machine learning type analysis where so you have. you have number features that comes directly from each else. So each sex race ethnicity. insurance type. Encounter prostate suggest duration. time of the year and so on. and you have labeled data in this case I guess you have able tater because you would know if op- inscribed on trade. Okay and so are the two questions here. One is to ask the question given a new patient and those features. you could assign a probability that that patient will be prescribed will. Definitely. Impress the data from that predictive Minds. Right and then can you so that data definitely tell you if the patient is going to progress into some sort of an addiction issue. So. Earn Predicting Substance Abuse. So. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There's additional diagnosis codes that document. whether a patient has a history of substance abuse disorder. and. So it would be feasible to. Identify the with those diagnosis codes in than really look at their prior history. Of What other conditions were they treated for? What medications were they give in? to develop that model. One of the things in this case that helped with this study is that just in general, it's not advised get. So there are other things that are much more of a gray area. Or whether opioid is as useful, but in this case. The really not. Considered. To be helpful for migraines compared to other options and so that help us have a fairly clear cut scenario to do this work. Yeah. This this won't be the data like you say once you do something like this, you have been other things you could. You could stop asking. So unquestioned that that been to my mind as you know, how did they hugged the actually prescribing opioids? Is it the patient asking for it all so? Off that was another scoping thing with this project is focused on what happens within the emergency. Room. So it's it's. Really, medication order in administration that happens. In that emergency room setting. Whether or not the patient. was. Requesting that you know if they came in and said, this has worked for me before. Can I have it again? we don't have visibility to that. Right. Right. And so from a practical perspective So the the analysis that you did slightly ended up with the Family Clyde power we think it is. Compelling. Pretty compelling. So as as a new patient gets into e D either high. and what I mean by that probably is if there is a history of substance abuse property. the physician has really think twice about. The use of may be the well, and in this case, even without that history. Just because it's not considered to be an effective treatment. You know encouraging them to pause in that decision making. In this particular case is as effective as wall. Right. So looking forward. In if you think about both of these issues, one is the data quality data aggregation data standardized recent problem in the the right of Utah Systems have did that the talked about? And then if we can get to a level that we can look at cross a large data set. Beacon, ask. More. US specific questions, treatment. Optimum treatment type questions. subpoenaed. US The mark big think B be hunting. Certainly, the volume and variety of data that we're able to work with will be even greater I, think the. Opportunity To. Look, holistically at how upstream data capture. Effects Downstream data. Analysis. example I frequently give is if we have a Aggregate Data said we identify. Ten patients whose way in that data such shows up as being. Something that's completely infeasible. let's say they're documented is being. Fifty year old person who weighs two pounds. Clearly air. What's important is? Creating the process to communicate that back upstream. Because that clinical decision. Support. Many drug dosing things are evaluated using weight based logic and so. That same logic that's Evaluating the appropriateness of dosage. It's going to be running against an incorrect value in that may or may not always be visible. So I really am intrigued with that holistic opportunity. In it I am I remain just we have three or four additional papers coming out. About other examples where Provider behaviors not aligned with Best Practices and I'm just excited about you know when you compare that to how long it takes to develop a new drug or how long it takes to. To a really long term research. This research has the opportunity for a pretty quick turnaround on an effective intervention. A really that. Other so much that right. Providers. been taught in a no, but they're. Not always using that in practice and so to help them. Identify, those topics in just modifying behaviors is. In the scheme of things, it's a very straightforward way to improve. So. You know the entire spectrum from essentially getting the data. Right or cleaner like you know Missa mischaracterized or miss input data like wait or something like that. To to get. Better diagnosis better treatment modalities. policies there and from a femme perspective clearly inflammation therefore clinical trials. I was even thinking about drug interaction type. Inflammation. I haven't been involved in the former de for awhile but. Typically, this type of data doesn't get back into automatic processes that fast but I think that is all I know there's strong interest in Pharma in. Working with this type of data there a again looking at real world behavior. This is an excellent resource for off label medication use at. you know where Pharma's Always interested in repurposing existing medications the. Regulatory Processes, much more straightforward for that because the safety is already been. Evaluated and so. The. Significant Opportunity With this, there's also just exciting. Patterns of you know. What are those unrecognised correlations? That's where the machine learning opportunities are really exciting where. You know we're not always asking the right question. And the data can show us what we should be. Yeah exactly. So if the machine a sort of red flags something or create hypotheses. that Cubans have missed sometimes, those types of things are extremely powerful. because maybe that sometimes it's countering tutor. and so we all look at data with an Incan bias. The beauty of machines that at least on the surface began deploy Michigan. This volume of data. Techniques like machine deep learning can recognize those subtle but consistent associations. Wait quite. Excellent. Idea this has been great mark Thanks so much time with me. I enjoyed it very much. Thank you. But

Policy Technology Economics Science Gill Eappen Mike Yesterday Dr Mark Hoffman Children's Mussa Hospital Turner Electronic Certner Migraine Inflammation Federated Networks Stan Day Squatty Michio Kato University Of Minnesota Makita GIL Federated Kansas City
Justin Bieber and Chance The Rapper Are Donating $250,000 to Fans Battling 'Hard Times'

Elvis Duran and the Morning Show ON DEMAND

00:25 sec | 2 years ago

Justin Bieber and Chance The Rapper Are Donating $250,000 to Fans Battling 'Hard Times'

"All right. So Justin Bieber and chance the rapper are giving away a total of two, hundred, fifty, thousand dollars they partnered with the cash eappen. Of course, this is to promote their single holy They are giving it to people who are affected by these hard. Times they've already given away the money to somebody who was affected by the hurricane and right now, all you have to do to enter the Hashtag J., B. Chance Holy and you'll be entered to win and they're going to pick a bunch of people. So I think that's pretty cool.

Justin Bieber
Is Anchor bypassing Apple Podcasts' approval process?

podnews

03:21 min | 3 years ago

Is Anchor bypassing Apple Podcasts' approval process?

"Owned podcast host anchor is seemingly, bypassing the apple podcasts approval process, and this, that's their users post tests, and even illegal copyright material. Unchecked to apple podcasts and others. We've discovered you'll find a link to our report in our episode notes, and our newsletter today in other news NPR and Edison research have revealed. They're smart audio reports two thousand nineteen the data suggests that twenty one percent of American adults. That's fifty three million people own a smart speaker podcasts. Don't appear in the report, though, forty two percent claim to use their speaker at least once a week to listen to the news, there are now over seven hundred six thousand podcasts, according to blueberry, well, how many are still in production only about eighteen percent according to an article by amplify media heartache. This figures described as sobering in the article, but you might want to compare the figure with broadcast televisions in tarsha Jewell, where significantly less than eighteen percent of shows being broadcast still in production or a typical library, where many books being borrowed were released a long time ago, millennial podcast listeners outspent non listeners by up to one hundred seventy nine percent. That's according to a new report called a listeners about the power of UK podcasting from podcast strategists for DC cosmopolitan is launching its first branded podcast with Tinder, footballer broadcaster. Robber. And kidnapper OJ Simpson may be preparing a podcast, according to a show biz site advertising executives at Pandora are interviewed on video for variety. You should never put a radio ad on Pandora. They say Castro's Patrick, how is leaving the company after nine years of working on the well, reviewed Iowa. Podcast app. He's current role is being advertised along with others in the UK podcast measurement has challenges says digital in an article here, you know that feature and overcast that skips past silences in podcasts so far. It saved all of humanity a little over one thousand eight hundred ninety eight years, and that's before any savings from playing podcast. It increased speed to take into account that data from its developer. Marco Arment podcast player FM has given their IRS Eappen updates if you're publishing with lips into linked in you needs to reauthenticate t tales in our episode notes, and our newsletter today, along with some advice around Email marketing basics, should, you join podcast network, and how to persevere when podcasting gets tough. We have updated our podcast app user agents list to use data from a new open repository that you can help build. You'll find more details in our show. Notes and our newsletter. Finally, pull Spain was on the AM show in New Zealand the other day on three TV and magic talk radio talking about podcasting. We liked this bit, you'll favorite podcasts at the moment. I who pod news as one that I listened to most most days, that's more for people that are involved in an podcasting industry. Lock. I am what a bright man

Pandora Castro Apple UK Oj Simpson Tarsha Jewell Marco Arment NPR Edison Research Tinder Developer Spain IRS Iowa New Zealand Patrick Eighteen Percent One Thousand Eight Hundred Nin One Hundred Seventy Nine Perce Twenty One Percent
TikTok Maker Reportedly Set to Take on Spotify

Latest In Tech News

02:00 min | 3 years ago

TikTok Maker Reportedly Set to Take on Spotify

"Tech news, tic TAC maker is reportedly set to take on Spotify with a new music streaming app. The most valuable start up in the world is planning to launch a streaming music app. According to Bloomberg bite, dance the company behind Tik tok plans on debut in a new service as early as this fall. It will likely come out in poorer countries that don't have large streaming mute music audience as Bloomberg's gracelessly put it a South China Morning post I wrote last month that bite dance of building a Spotify like apple, but the article was short on details, Bloomberg sources asked to not be identified as a company has not yet announced music service, that crunch also confirmed with Semillas sources at the app is coming soon as the end of this quarter, which would mean the fall might dance, did not respond to gives modal requests for confirmation, and it's launching the app on Monday by dance launch a chat app called feely, owl, flip chat in English, the app seems to be more than. A we chat or what's app duplicate. It can also be used for delivery orders, ride hailing and money exchange while a bite dance chat service may have seen inevitable due to the ubiquity of messenger, half a bite dance music service, feels equally obvious after I'll take type began as a lip synching Eappen, most posts within these ABC contain fifteen second audio tracks, led to an interesting relationship between bite dance and music companies deals between bite dance and the three biggest record label, Sony Music universal and Warner Music, reportedly expired in the spring, driving. Labels to demand higher payment from bite. Dan for two songs. It was using, but in recent months, tic TAC has been recognized as a new music kingmaker after it led to a new song climbing the charts in South Korea and made another song, hit number one on billboard charts here, stateside trying to harness the suit found music, Powertek talk launch a talent show like program for discovering rising stars last month. So one can reasonably assume that it will. Fanned on its music, designed by launching of streaming app of

Bloomberg Spotify Sony Music Warner Music South Korea ABC Feely DAN Apple Fifteen Second
John Karna talks "Valley of the Boom"

Talking Tech

06:17 min | 4 years ago

John Karna talks "Valley of the Boom"

"Talking tech is brought to you by wicks dot com with wicks you can use artificial design intelligence to create a stunning website right from your phone in five minutes or less. Just go to wicks dot com. That's W I X dot com and create your professional website today. Actor John Karna got to play Mark Andriessen who created the Netscape browser back in the pre dawn of the internet era. He plays them in a new mini series about the birth of the internet called valley of the boom which airs on the National Geographic channel, John Carney joins us today on talking tech shares her fluctuations on the early days of the internet. I'm Jefferson Graham. Stay tuned. Yeah. You know, it's an interesting show primarily because you get to see interviews with the real players in ball alongside these kind of dramatic reenactments. But the only person who really didn't want to do any interviews for the show was Mark because he just notoriously hates talking about the past. And and so I got to kind of, you know, do like a mock interviews him, and then at some point somebody stops me, and I break the fourth wall. And I'm like, you know, guys, I'm obviously not market. I'm I'm this actor Jon Karna, and you know, Mark does. I don't really want to do this in in that way. Kinda gives me a little bit of leeway. Just in the sense that, you know, I'm a pretty small guy about five nine, and I think Mark at twenty four was six two or six three something crazy in, you know, like over two hundred pounds, and in this way, kind of gives me a little bit of leeway, which was cool. There's a lot of fun. She played the young Mark Anderson for yes, sir. Yeah. Mark at twenty four. I believe was when he was, you know, the founder of Netscape the first year there, and he was just a young kid. Really? I didn't really know a ton about Mark. I mean, I when I was a kid I remember using Netscape, and I remember, especially using Firefox growing up. I thought that like, you know, at the time that was the the browser that everyone said was way better than Internet Explorer in its cool that that code came from the original Netscape code in Missoula crew is off from the Netscape crew in. But I did a ton of research when I found out I got the Parton I was really struck by just how innovative really was to create a browser at that time in the ninety s I mean, it it just kept getting driven home to me how before this browser was widely disseminated no-one relieving knew how to get on the internet. Even though the internet had been happening for about a decade. It was really only being used by the department of defense in academia in. Browser. The first one mosaic. It really it opened everything up a lot of times. He likens it to the invention of the printing press again, and it in a way totally was that influential right now, did you get to meet Moton tourism? No, unfortunately, not. I'm such a fan. I definitely tried for a little bit too. Just to talk to him to get a little bit of a sense of what it felt like when he was a working Netscape because you know, he is he's just such a private person. Understandably, so and not the least of which because he's still one of the biggest players in the venture capital world right now. So I definitely wrote him like a letter. I I asked kind of like the the music that he listened to at the time because that was a really good way for me to kind of get into his head space. But no, you know, I just have had a ton of conversations with them in my head, you know, to question or treated with us market Newson. I I would definitely ask him about his. Music. I, you know, he just he everyone said he just loved listening to a ton of classical music. And I think like I I made myself a little playlist that I kind of thought that maybe he would listen to. I would also I would also, you know, if I if I really was able to talk to him, frankly, I would wanna know really any sort of details about how it must have felt when all of this was getting kind of on the downhill in a O L, you know, buys Netscape in it's not necessarily a happy ending for that company by any means. I mean, I've even though it saved it from Microsoft's, it kind of you know, that's the end of Netscape, and I would be interested to see, you know, if that if that spurned him on to anything new or if that kind of is something he would rather leave behind, you know, or via valley, the boom is on the National Geographic channel are. It's an eight ups owed for six episodes in where we have they run all of them or the. In the middle of it. Or where's that they're all out now and me personally, I think it's really great to binge them. Some of, you know, sixty episodes on the all flow pretty crazily in. I think you can find him on the net GO app or on the effects now Eappen, you know, hope everyone enjoys it. You've been listening to after John Karna who plays Mark, Andrew sim. Indeed, new National Geographic mini series valley of boom. I'm Jefferson Graham with USA today. You can find me on Twitter where I'm at Jefferson Graham, you can find talking tech wherever you listen to online audio subscribe to the show, please favorite us on Stitcher, which helps more people find the show and thanks everyone for listening. Talking tech is brought to you by wicks dot com. When you're ready to get your website up and running you wanna be able to do it quickly and efficiently and wicks dot com has got you covered. They developed artificial design intelligence that creates a stunning website for you with wicks, you can create your own professional website right from your phone, which means you can open your own online store portfolio or blog wherever you are. How's that for officiant? Just go to wicks dot com. Decide what you need a website for pick your style at your own images link your social accounts and just like that your website is ready. You'll look amazing on every device desktop and mobile and it takes less than five minutes. Plus, you can do it with one hand. So it's time to get started. Go to wicks dot com. That's W I X dot com and create your very own beautiful professional website today.

Netscape Mark Jefferson Graham John Karna John Carney Mark Anderson Jon Karna Mark Andriessen Founder Missoula Twitter Moton Microsoft USA Eappen Andrew Sim Five Minutes
Abc, Cdc and Arizona discussed on News, Traffic and Weather

News, Traffic and Weather

00:54 sec | 5 years ago

Abc, Cdc and Arizona discussed on News, Traffic and Weather

"Workplace environ where everyone feels safe and protected there can be no exception abc's eva pilgrim the warning remains in effect the cdc says people should not buy or eat romaine lettuce unless they know it's not from yuma arizona the government now reports ninety eight people got sick and twenty two states that's blamed on e coli this is abc news ever wonder why european seemed to speak so many languages maybe it's because they use babble the number one selling language learning eappen europe babbel's awardwinning technology gets you speaking right away whether you're learning spanish french or german festival you'll remember what you've learned i always thought i was bad at languages but after using battle i can tell you i was just taught the wrong way using babbel's ten to fifteen minute lessons you can be speaking confidently and your new language within weeks i was amazed that i could start having real life conversations right away it was so fast now.

ABC CDC Arizona Babbel Yuma Fifteen Minute
Baylor remembers former first lady Barbara Bush

Peter Greenberg Worldwide

01:32 min | 5 years ago

Baylor remembers former first lady Barbara Bush

"Eat it that's the message from federal health officials expanding their warning about e coli tainted lettuce according to the centers for disease control and prevention if you've bought romain lettuce of any type chopped hole or hearts of romaine or if you're served it at a restaurant toss it away unless you're sure it didn't come from yuma arizona that's where federal health officials think the tainted lettuce is coming from the coli outbreak has spread more quickly in recent days from connecticut to alaska so far the hardest hit state is pennsylvania with at least a dozen cases of the more than fifty people sickened nationwide at least thirty one had to be hospitalized sharon reed abc news the private funeral for former first lady barbara bush takes place in houston today invitation lists comprising fifteen hundred guests including four x president the funeral for barbara bush will actually be quite basic traditional prayers and hymns bible readings and remarks by mrs bush's children and grandchildren the reverend brussel levinson junior will oh officiate the funeral she really wanted to be very simple she would say she didn't want much fuss jim ryan abc news houston you're listening to abc news ever wonder why european seemed to speak so many languages maybe it's because they use babble the number one selling language learning eappen europe babbel's award winning technology gets you speaking right away whether you're learning spanish french or german and best of all you'll remember what you've learned i always thought i was bad at languages but after using battle i can tell you i was just taught the wrong.

Arizona Connecticut Pennsylvania Barbara Bush President Trump Houston Yuma Alaska Sharon Reed Mrs Bush Brussel Levinson ABC