20 Episode results for "Drexel"

MISSING: Brittanee Drexel

Crime Junkie

39:33 min | 1 year ago

MISSING: Brittanee Drexel

"Simply safe is the only home security system I use to protect my family in home with their the state of the art devices as well as twenty four seven monitoring system that is easy to install and use. I feel confident that my family is safe all the time. If you're interested in protecting those you love humbly say foam security system. Go to simplisafe DOT COM slash crime junkie to learn more high-crime Junkies. I'm your host Ashley. Flowers and I'm Brett and January eleventh was human trafficking awareness day and in fact January is now human trafficking awareness month. So the story I want to tell you today is all about a girl who is believed to have fallen victim to this modern day slavery practice and this is one at the episodes. I think is super important for young people to here so parents share your kids. High School and college students listen close because according to the United Nations International Labor Association over forty million people across the world or exploited traffic and enslaved with women and girls being disproportionately finally affected human trafficking. Isn't something that happens far away in poor isolated regions. It can happen anywhere at any time and anyone including including a high school soccer star on her spring break can fall victim. This is the story of Brittany Drexel Brittany. He Drexel just wanted to have some fun. Her family life in Rochester. New York was undergoing some dramatic changes during her junior year of high school. Her parents had recently decided a to divorce her dad Chad who adopted her as a little girl. After marrying her mom dawn had just moved out of the house and seventeen year. Old Brittany was taking it really hard now. She normally enjoyed school and she loved being on the soccer team but the problems at home were difficult to cope with as she tried. Not only to navigate these new waters for herself but also be either for her younger brother and sister through divorce now. Her normal spark around this time was just dimmed but as winter ended and spring break of two thousand nine got closer Brittany. Saw An opportunity to reignite it when a trio of seniors from the high school invited her to go down to Myrtle beach South Carolina with them for spring break. Now this is is a big deal to be invited by the older kids. This is kind of a tradition for the seniors to go to Myrtle beach and have a good time before graduation and Brittany really wants to go. There's just one problem. Her parents won't let her. Dawn is not about to let Britain take a fourteen hour road trip. Six states away with a group of kids that she doesn't know with no oh. Parental supervision and Chad agrees is not happening. I mean I'm sure if I were Brittany I would be upset but as a mom. I'm also seeing that. It's a really good idea not to go. Yeah but here's the thing you're right Brittany is all about this. She doesn't stop asking and pretty soon. They're fighting about it all through the weeks leading up to spring break. It's a constant discussion point in their house. All the way up until the week of April twentieth when Britney's school let out for vacation finally on April Twenty Second Britney asked Don again because it's when they're planning on leaving like mob. Can I please go to Myrtle beach. But Don holds firm and their argument comes to a head and Brittany ends up storming out of the House. She calls her boyfriend to come pick her up and he takes her over to a friend's house now once she gets there she calls on to apologize. And of course I along with the apology ask just one more time once again. Don Says No disappeared actually did an episode. So on Britney's case called the secret journey and dawn told the producers of that show that she just got a bad feeling about the whole myrtle beach thing and she was kind of sick of Brittany asking but she got it. It was spring break. She thinks that you know she does need some kind of change of scenery. Some breathing room might not be a bad idea. I mean it's been stressful. School year with Donna. Chad's had separation. It's not easy on anyone now that there's this long way to break from school Brittany suggests a compromise. Britney says listen. Let me spend spring break at my friend's house like I will call you all the time I'm GonNa be around if you need anything and this seemed like a happy medium. This would like let Brittany getaway but not all all the way to South Carolina with a bunch of people. Didn't know so dawn says yes. Let me talk to your friends parents. I and this should be fine so Brittany hands the phone over to one of her her friends parents so don can talk to them for a few minutes and by the time she hangs up don shields a lot better because now both she and Britney can relax as the days go by Britney keeps up her end of the bargain she regularly calls don her cell phone to chat. Tell her what she's up to. She says that her and her friend just taking it easy hanging at home watching movies. They even got to go to the beach each one day. There's this beach near Lake Ontario. Like where they live and one afternoon. It hit like eighty in Rochester. They went to the beach now. On April Twenty Fifth Britney he calls Don and says she'll be home tomorrow just like a great. She says she and her friends are watching. More movies all GonNa stay in Nice and relaxing spring break don untold adding New Orleans of my story news. Brittany told her she loved her and she would see her tomorrow before they hung up the phone. She didn't think anything of it at the time. Just as by love you to later that night though don gets a phone call not from Brittany but from Britney's boyfriend John and he's a little panicky and he tells Don something that infuriates. Her Brittany isn't at her friend's house in Rochester. She's actually down in Myrtle beach at the bar. Harbor Hotel with her older friends. Jan Philipp Alana right where she's not supposed to be now right away. Dawn is so angry however her rage melts away away when John tells her not only as Britney in Myrtle beach but he can't get a hold of her. She's stopped responding to his tax over an hour ago and no one can get a a hold of her now on the phone when Don realizes that no one knows where Brittany is an immediate fear sets in. This is in right frantic don calls halls Chad and then tries multiple times to Col Brittany only to have her calls go unanswered before. Eventually they go to voicemail. Once Jon gets off work. He goes right to Britney's house house and confesses dawn so she can tell the Rochester police. Now there's a law that police can do from upstate. New York so John and dawn also call all a family friend that they have in North Carolina who instantly head south to file a missing persons report with the Myrtle Beach Police. Because that's who they have to file with since dots where she went missing. Don Jon spends an anxious night on the phone with Chad and her parents as they try to coordinate a plan. They're all two words even get any rest but there's still reason to hope and so they tried to focus on the potential positives instead of all the negatives the next morning dawn John and a small group of Britney's loved ones get up early to begin the long drive drive from Rochester to myrtle beach to try and bring Britney home along the way John tells them more of the story about how Britney started off having a great time she was hanging hanging out with friends until they started partying too hard and left her isolated as nice as the weather was as much as she wanted to be on that trip. John says that Brittany was ready. Ready to come home now. None of this is really setting in for Don. By the time they get to Myrtle beach. It is surreal and awful to think that her baby is missing yet here. They are hundreds hundred of miles away from home and desperate for answers now that she's in South Carolina though. She likes the Myrtle beach police takeover in hopes that they'll be able to find Britney fast now one of the first things police do is they talked to Jen Alana and fill those same people that she went down there with and they also talked to John Her boyfriend since he was actually the last person known to. I've been in contact with her between the four of them. They want to try and track Britney's last movements and here's what they learn. John says that when he was texting her she tells him that. She's not with her group anymore. She'd actually been doing her own thing that day and she met up with a guy named Peter who she knew from back home now in the last moments that John was texting her. She told him that she was at the blue. Water resort hanging out with Peter now according to the police report when they talk to her friends they we learned that they had asked her to come to their hotel and brings him shorts back that she had borrowed so Britney leaves. The blue water resort to go return the shorts to her friends except she never made it back to their hotel. Knowing that Peter is potentially one of the last people now have interacted with Brittany. The police naturally WanNa find him and talk to him now. Peter's a little bit older he's actually already graduated from high school and he is down in Burtle beach with a group of buddies for a spring break trip of his own and he's actually pretty well known back home in Rochester. For being a club promoter and knowing the best spots to have a good time. Here's the scoop. Though when they go look for him. There's a problem he he is gone. According to the Myrtle beach police report. Investigators go to the blue water resort to talk to Peter and his friends only to find that they left in a hurry at about two o'clock on the morning of April twenty-sixth just hours after Britney went missing the night before their stuff is still in their room and they didn't even bother to get their or deposit back. Yeah that's super sketchy especially if you don't have anything to hide right but here's the thing it's not like he was on the run. Peter had actually gone right back home home to Rochester so they weren't able to track him down but as soon as he got home he immediately got a lawyer which raises some eyebrows for the friends and Family Leeann everyone involved. Now that bluewater resort where he was at though isn't a total dead end. Since Peter was staying with a group of friends the hotels able to pass all of their her name and contact information over to police who can get in touch with them before they lawyer up like Peter did know. Peter's four friends are named in the police. Report as Anthony. Matthew Keith and Philip and they all say that they met Britney at a club on the twenty four th and then they saw her again the next day at the beach and she walked to their hotel later that eight to hang out with Peter but according to them she only stayed about ten minutes and then left to go return. Jen Shorts which matches the story. Police were hearing for Brittany's friends so the Myrtle beach police police request the bluewater security footage to look for time stamps and to see if the boy story matches up with the footage. Now once they're able to get the tapes they see Britney leaving the resort at eight forty eight pm on the twenty fifth right in line with the boys timeframe now the police keep coming over the tapes. There's Brittany going in there. She is again and going back out. Time stamp eight forty eight when she leaves then just nothing. You said that she's going from one hotel to fielder right yes. was there any sign of her on like traffic cams or you know security between the two places no not really. So there's this shot of her from eight fifteen pm when she's heading south south on Ocean Boulevard on her way to the blue water resort. Where Peter and his friend state now Brittany left Peter's hotel to go back to bar? Harbor dropped jen shorts off and then turn around goes back to the blue water resort but she never made it to bar harbor in the first place so sometimes somewhere along that mile and have stretched between the two hotels Britney disappeared and there. There's no other footage of her. At least not that police had ever released so to continue to find her. Police pull her cellphone records because they knew she was using her phone like up until the time she went missing. So they're eager for any scrap of information about who else you might have talked to or what she might have been doing or even if they can track and what they find takes dawn down a much darker path. This episode was made possible by betterment. Here's an honest honest question. How are you supposed to know what to do with your money? Very few of us are exposed to meaningful advice on how to manage our finances now. Even fewer people have the means means to get professional financial guidance. Betterment is a platform that was built to do something radical to give accessible financial advice that puts new I. If you're like most Americans your money is probably just sitting in a savings account. Likely earning you next to nothing now. Maybe you have an investment account that you're not totally sure what to do with betterment can help you make sense of what to do with your money. Investing involves risk. 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Wild Boars like you to name it and there's no way like her family's like you're not going to find some upstate teenager from New York on spring break hanging out here on her own unless she had been brought there against just her will and this is when darker thought crosses the mind of Britney's mom and those close to her perhaps she had become a victim of human trafficking and at first I. It didn't seem possible like that doesn't happen here. It doesn't happen to people like us like other people other places far away. But that's the thing you guys it can happen everywhere everywhere to every type of person and no one is immune like. It's so interesting telling this story I feel like I'm smack DAB in the middle. Like when I tell I I feel like I was Brittany five minutes ago. I was seventeen and I remember. I wanted to do everything and like I was so mature and my mom used to say this thing to me all the time she was like. It's not not that I don't trust you. I don't trust anybody else. I don't trust people I don't know I don't trust strangers. I don't trust anyone else and it used to infuriate me. And it's so weird being on the other side of this. I don't have kids but I am now in my thirties and I so side with her mom and it's so hard I don't know how you communicate that to teenagers. I don't know how how I would have gotten it through my head and I hope like anyone listening like your mom isn't crazy. It is real like it's not you. It is this whole world of other other people will and like out there even before I had kids like going girls trips or Bachelorette parties being like counting our heads and making sure we're all together and making sure no no one's talking to anybody sketchy like it. Getting older really does make me side with the mom hundred percent more than I did with my own mom growing up. Yeah and I I just WanNa like all of our young listeners in like a bear hug and be like just please listen to your mom's listen to us like it's no one wants you to have a bad time or not be a part of things. This is such a scary world we live in and it really. What we're talking about today is happening everywhere? It's happening in people's backyards. Like I'm not kidding when I say it's not far and away. It happens here in Indiana all the time and it can happen to you so please just be smart out their kids so now. Dawn is faced with this new reality like her daughter is in a completely foreign place. Maybe something happened to her and maybe someone took her against her will did dawn Brittany just got scooped up off the street like it was in the middle of the day right. Yeah and that's actually not what she thought but it totally could happen like that. I mean again. We have to get away from what we think is normal or not but her mom thinks it was maybe more subtle. She wondered if Britney had been deceived into willingly going with a trafficker. Don told hold my horry news that maybe she thought someone had offered Britney a modeling job as allure because according to Dine Brittany had thought about modeling in the past and she thinks maybe that would just be like like an easy way to get her to go with them and this is interesting because the more I was reading up on human trafficking. I found the Polaris project. And they're this huge nonprofit whose mission is to fight and end modern slavery and their website says that making a fake job offer is a really common trafficking tactic so while Don it is becoming more and more convinced that this is what could have happened to her daughter. The myrtle beach police are pretty adamant that Brittany wasn't traffic. Because they they say on that disappeared special quote. We've got no history. We've had nothing prior or since and quote but that is not the reality reality of human trafficking even though this episode first aired in two thousand ten just a year after Britney vanished. Human traffic is very much in plain sight. Crime that is chronically. Honestly under reported and as Tory Governor reported for W. T. W. News in two thousand nineteen not only South Carolina. One of the country's top twenty trafficking hubs jobs but horry county where Myrtle beach is is one of the states most affected trafficking location will on top of that saying it didn't happen because it doesn't happen. been here is not a good excuse. Yeah and also like kind of bearing your head in the sand to say like you're saying it never happens definitely could have happened here and since then nothing has happened happened like that is clearly not accurate. I know it's probably kind of weird to say but it also makes sense for a really touristy area like Myrtle beach appea- trafficking hotspot. No it totally. Does there are more people coming in and out of town there are like different behavior patterns. So it's easier have regular is you don't have local local. Yes easier not to stand out and also the heightened demand for labor and like the hospitality sector brings like a bunch of people to the town and I was also reading in the. US International National Labor Association website that trafficking victims are forced into all kinds of stuff like participation in commercial sex industry domestic servitude. So it's not even just like this one type puffing Now Dawn told disappeared in two thousand ten that she worried. Britney was being forced into nonconsensual sex work but she helped searching helping. Brittany's father Chad pass out flyers talking to police and praying that the searchers turn up a single clue in their efforts to find her daughter so though they may have disagreed in the early days about y Brittany was missing and who took her. The police in the family had the common goal of finding her. Investigators started to search the cell tower that her phone pinged Don. They thought basically they could use that as a range to give them some kind of guidelines about where to look now despite the miserable search conditions. This is a big operation and lots of volunteers and multiple counties like came together like pooled their resources to try and do anything they could to find Britney but days days go by in those swamps and eventually the searchers are forced to admit the truth. There's no sign of Britain here and the case begins to cool off slowly holy and eventually gets ice cold then in mid December of two thousand nine eight months after Britney vanished. An anonymous tip gets phoned. It police are reluctant to give the media any details about the tip specifics but they take it seriously enough to resume the search in the swamp areas close to where they were looking months once before but this time they're looking on the banks of the Santee river just north of their original search radius. And this time they catch a break they. They find a pair of sunglasses laying on the riverbank now. Dawn and Chad don't recognize the glasses and neither does Boyfriend John but that doesn't mean she didn't buy a pair when she was down on there so they're hoping that maybe they can get some kind of DNA off of them but heartbreakingly. There's nothing on the sunglasses and just another dead end and the the case goes cold again. It takes a couple of more months until something happens on April nine two thousand ten Don's hopes are lifted when seemingly out of nowhere police announced they have several persons of interest. Now they're deliberately vague on the details in the media and they withhold names even from the Drexel family but no arrests were ever made so once again it leads nowhere but to disappointment. Now in two thousand twenty I feel like you've glossed over a lot here. Like who are these people have interest. Were their arrests. Like what's going on. They they never made arrests and this is like the frustrating part. I don't have answers. The answers to like who they are. How they got on the radar? Why they're being announces? Personal interest never led to being called a suspect or an arrest. Dawn says that police are super vague and they barely told her anything. So she just gets these tiny glimmers of hope and then nothing so the next glimmer of hope that she got was in two thousand House and twelve. A man named Raymond Moody who was a South Carolina sex offender with convictions for rape kidnapping and Lewd Acts on a child under fourteen years. Old Old is announced as a new person of interest. But this is another dead end and Raymond is never definitively connected to Brittany's disappearance now. The years years go by Brittany's little siblings grow up. Dawn eventually moves down to South Carolina to be closer to the investigation and keep the pressure on police. Then on June June eighth two thousand sixteen the FBI confirms the Drexel's worst fears Brittany is deceased. David Lohr reported for the Huffington composed that the FBI special agent in charge of South Carolina makes the announcement at a press conference near where Britney's last ping basically saying that the F. B. I.. Believes that Brittany traveled traveled to that area and that she was killed their weight. Like how. How do they know that she's deceased? Like there's been nothing for years at this point well it turns out out that the FBI had new information and their new information changed everything. 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Sean sexually assaulting a teenage girl with a black lack I in a room full of other men. That girl to Quan claims was Brittany Drexel. According to the testimony transcript dawn's hunch about trafficking was right right because not only did Timothy Pick Britney up but he also offered her around to his friends getting into what the FBI call human trafficking situation in court and he he was selling her against her will for sex so to Quan says that he saw Britney a couple of days after she vanished and that while he was at the Stash House he saw all her tried to escape and he tells the FBI that she made a break for it. Only to be brought back brutally pistol-whipped. Now Quan says that he then heard shots after Britney was taken take him back into the house in assume she'd been killed the FBI agent recounting to Quan story on the stand says that quote several witnesses told them that Britney's as body was taken away and thrown into an alligator pit. Now of course hearing this dawn is beyond heartbroken like there are things no parent ever wants wants to hear. And then there's this you know like this is a whole different level of gruesome and it's it's so horrific. Yeah and it's all but impossible to cope width. But the images of her oldest child last days play in her head like a horror movie again and again only reinforcing her need to find answers now. The only thing thinks she can take comfort in though. Is that Timothy Taylor who is sometimes referred to by name does Shawn is well on police radar and they know right where he is because Timothy as it turns out is already in jail. What's he in jail for? Well this is where things start to get a little murky. So back in two thousand eleven Timothy Timothy and a group of guys decided to Robin. McDonald's and Timothy acted as their getaway driver now. The robbery didn't go. Well the all got caught and Timothy was given probation Shen now typically once a sense completed. That's that but in two thousand sixteen Timothy's arrested again on federal charges related to the same robbery week so they're charging him a gun for a crime that he already served time for. Isn't that double jeopardy. So that's what I thought too. And that's what Timothy's lawyer lawyer argues but I was reading drew trips piece from. ABC News four about this legal concept called separated sovereigns which basically says that states or completely separate entities from federal government so since Timothy had been convicted by the state in two thousand eleven. It's actually not double jeopardy for the federal government government to come along in two thousand sixteen and arrest him again for the same crime like it's unusual but apparently not illegal so now federal prosecutors are arguing that even though Timothy pled guilty for his role in the McDonald's robbery he got such a light sentence that they want to bring him up on federal charges that carry some much harsher sentences all the way up to to life in prison so no deals like nothing that is unless Timothy can give them some more information about what happened to Britney Drexel. Okay so let me get a straight. They're basically threatening to charge him again with a potentially harsher sentence. But it's more than likely just to get more information information on Britney's case exactly now timothy claims. He has no idea what happened to Brittany and that he only knows her from the news because her case was such a big deal oh now his lawyers meanwhile argue that this is all a ploy by desperate law enforcement officials on their last leg of a case that they can't solve. I mean it definitely feels like they're trying squeeze some sort of information on him but they have to believe that decline is credible for them to go through all of this right right so to. Quan claims to a passed a polygraph polygraph test and we know from the FBI's testimony that they did talk to other witnesses. Who corroborated at least some of to Quan statements? But I mean there's still no trace of Britney's knees remains even after renewed search efforts through the alligator habitats in and around this area that they said they left her in. I mean if alligators is what they're thinking like. Would there be anything to find. No you know I probably not. I don't think there would be But I think this just shows you how seriously that they were taking that they would even go go look for them even if they thought they weren't gonNA find anything now. According to court documents from two thousand eighteen part of Timothy's plea bargain for the federal charges involves a reduced due sentence. If he can pass a polygraph test so he's hooked up to the machine and the person administering the test as if he knows who was involved in Britain's disappearance Timothy says no I don't know the administrator moves on did you timothy ever see Brittany in person again. Timothy Says No both times times. The machine registered deceit indicating that Timothy is lying and he failed the polygraph as a result. There's no incentive for the court to Lower Timothy sentences ends and now there's nothing for dawn to do but wait since this feels like the most tangible lead they'd had seven long miserable years while she waits and prays for justice more information emerges with some truly disturbing connotations mm-hmm. This episode was made possible by future. I absolutely love my Apple Watch. It helps me keep track of so much much in my life. My heart rate my emails even location on my phone because I'm constantly misplacing it around my house but there's something truly amazing that I'm obsessed with about my Apple Watch lately. It helps me. Take my very personal trainer with me all the time. I use an APP called future that has revolutionized the way I track and achieve my workout goals. One of the toughest things for me to do is actually get to the gym. But my trainer knows that and customize my plan with guided workouts. 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He'd witnessed what happened to Britney Drexel he specifically mentions both Timothy Taylor and his dad's Sean. Now what he doesn't mentioned honestly probably doesn't know. Is Sean criminal history so it turns out back back in two thousand ten about a year after Britney disappeared. Sean was arrested and charged for get this trying to kidnap another young woman from the same spot where Britney vanished right on Ocean Boulevard near the blue water resort lives not only that but as Graham more reported for ABC. See News. Fifteen Shaun's brother Randall. Would be Timothy's uncle was also arrested and charged back in two thousand one for connections to the death and disappearance silence of yet another missing young woman like nineteen year old Shannon McConnell. Hey now she vanished. January nineteen ninety eight after leaving a cracker barrel restaurant draw in North Charleston South Carolina and she was found dead in March of ninety eight after being raped murdered and dumped in the woods near McClellan. vel where Britney's he's phone last paint now. The charges against Sean and Randall were eventually dismissed in both cases but I am seeing a creepy family trend trend here the fact that you're even connected to multiple cases like this is very bizarre right and not only that if Tai Kwon story is to be believed in his own family is full all of its own deep dysfunction because according to interviews that he gave to Brett Davidson and others at W. H.. ABC News Ten in the spring of two thousand. Nineteen Britney wasn't murdered in CL. She was murdered about one hundred and thirty miles. South of Myrtle beach in the woods near Jackson Borough South Carolina at I had a trailer belonging to John's Uncle Herman so he's basically saying that this poor girl got passed around from place to place to place and you know the more I research research about this story and was writing the story. It kind of reminds me of like the lloyd. Lee Welsh thing. I mean there are different scenarios but how so. It's like this whole family. Who seems a network almost seems to be involved now? John says the last time he saw Britney alive. She was at Herman's and this is a few days after he saw her at the Taylor Stash House and he said when he saw her. It seemed like she'd been drugged so in total. He says he saw her four four times. Both a stash house and out of his uncle Herman's trailer before she was killed. Now here's the thing he says he's not the only one to have seen her and that a group group of his acquaintances have all seen Brittany when she was alive being held captive. I guess who is. He like accused of killing her. There's so many people involved at this point so he's he's actually not accusing his family. So did not Sean Not Timothy Not Herman according to John It's actually one of these acquaintances acquaintances. Who'd seen her he says? It's a guy named nate. Just nate no last name and no one anyone has ever been able to track down. So according to Quan John Nate Shot Brittany in May of two thousand nine and her body was buried before being retrieved and tossed to alligators it. Takes the FBI several several months to go out and search Herman's trailer after these new revelations and dawn is furious at the delay like what is the holdup now. Herman died back in two thousand sixteen and the property was still vacant. So she's like has no idea why like. Why are we just going there? I don't feel you'd have to get a warrant right like there's no reason Soleil. Yeah but as NBC News Ten reported last summer the FBI might not be so confident about to Kwame Brown anymore because while some of his story checks x out there are still big gaps missing like the other witnesses that he claimed saw Brittany. Now there's also his most recent polygraph test which he took in May a of two thousand and one thousand nine hundred which by his own admission to NBC News Ten ended with investigators telling him he's holding back information. This raises a lot of questions ends for me. And I'm sure it raised even more for the FBI and it kind of might be a big contributing factor as to why as of this recording Timothy. Sean Taylor has has never been charged with any crimes related to Britney's disappearance. He was finally sentenced on December Nineth of two thousand nineteen to eighteen months probation and time served for that two thousand as an eleven McDonald's robbery but what don hoped would finally give her the truth seems to be stalling yet again and the resolution she craves appears to be no closer even though she spent the last few years advocating in the fight against human trafficking the pain of Brittany's loss and the questions left behind or still as president as ever without having found any tangible trace of Brittany and she is still very much a missing person to this day and I really want her story to be four. Something something like dawn has taken to advocacy and it's so important because I'm telling you guys this stuff is happening all around. You could be happening to someone you know right now. Because here's the other everything to people. Don't just get picked up and swapped away. You never see them again. Like in Britney's case sometimes people can be traffic and you still see them every day and they're under someone else's else's control and looking case I think we think of trafficking to as like okay you get like picked up off the street or someone finds you by like running into to you on the street or somewhere where you're not supposed to be or whatever but that's not how it happens. At all. First of all we see trafficking in kids as young as twelve years old and according according to the New York Post many of these traffickers contacting kids and young adults through social media like they'll actually make profile request a bunch of kids all from the same same school so it looks legit. And that's how they get in then they find kids who are looking for some type of caregiver or some craving something from a relationship validation. Yeah yeah they flatter than they make them feel important and then slowly and methodically they brainwash them right there in their own home. Sometimes at the dinner table with mom and dad like at these bad guys are just out there on the streets anymore. They're in our pockets. And I know we think this could never happen to us but it happens to so many of us and I'm going to link outs. What's that New York Post article because it's really good and outlined some of the tactics used by traffickers and I'm also going to link to the organization Polaris who has a ton of resources for victims terms of human trafficking and even for people who have been trafficked? Because it's just as important that we know what to look for right additionally we're going to make a donation to Polaris to continue continue to fund their work and we would encourage all of you to find a local organization of your own that is working to put an end to trafficking or to support the victims. I think you'll be shocked to find that it really is happening in your own backyard. Look if you'd like to donate to the Polaris project or to learn more about how you can help in the fight against human trafficking and modern slavery check out Polaris Project Dot Org and if you WanNa see any of the pictures or sources used for this case. You couldn't find all of that on our website crying Junkie podcasts Dot Com and bishop applause on instagram. At Penn Junkie. PODCAST will be back next week with a brand new episode and Crime Junkie is an audio chuck production. So what do you think chuck do you approve.

Britney Drexel Col Brittany Don Jon Dawn Myrtle beach South Carolina Timothy Timothy Brittany Drexel Brittany FBI Myrtle beach Chad John Quan John Nate Brittany Drexel Rochester Myrtle Beach Police New York Brittany
Upcycling -Making Memorable Items from Clothing

Maya 's Upcycling as both Art and Function

03:35 min | 1 year ago

Upcycling -Making Memorable Items from Clothing

"Memorable items for yourself and your family. Obstacle is a very versatile process you can use it for temporary uses like setting setting up a space with upcycle items for an event but it can also be used to create member whole items from items or clothing. You already have. The first thing that I saw a wildbad was US t shirts. Almost anyone has some t shirt or several teachers even other types of clothing you may have had had refused to let go because of the memories because of somehow you feel you can still wear them despite all those say's holes in them Well several Oh companies have now come up with the idea that you can actually have quilts made out of these t shirts. Some make it simple enough that they will send you a ship package. Will you can put shirts. T. Shirts in there and give you instructions about the number of t shirts. You'll need for them to complete a certain size quilt world. However if you're brave enough in good with the threat of needle you can probably make your own quills or blanket on your own by sewing all the teachers and other items together. You can make it as elaborate or simple as you like. Quilts have been a part of the American culture for generations and have basically a relied on the use of pieces of leftover clothing. Some have included pieces of clothing from different family members. Giving some girls special meanings. The next item that obsolete I absolutely loved was the use of children's clothing in the in particular the ONC- off how One piece pajamas. Children wear when they're very young. I have seen these done by several Merchants where they have made. These wants these oprah jammed into beautiful stuffed animals. It is absolutely gorgeous. How each of the items of very unique and your child can let us or assayed for their children of these little stuff animals? Some merchants have also used the small blanket that are used to bring bring the baby home. Some people like to preserve these as part of the memory. Box In is okay but these are an option to make further use of items is is. Your child grows them the last item that I would discuss and had seen upcycle a wedding dresses. It used to be the wedding dresses with cats and impasse on to a daughter but now this is such a straightforward thing anymore. Some women now sell the dresses sunk. Keep them as a restyled them To Make Drexel Mobile for different occasions another option that I have recently. Missile was using a wedding dress to make very fantastic. Fancy elaborate are blanket or even an outfit for a child this this is of course a very individual choice but it is something that I would have never thought about yes to a great extent these. These approaches rely on some levels sewing but I think that they are definitely something that can be done and the results of really wonderful indefinite recreate out with sentimental values that you can once again for many of us have again for many years to come. While for now remember life

oprah Drexel Mobile
CBS3 News AM News Update 07/19/2020

CBS3 Eyewitness News Philadelphia

01:14 min | 6 months ago

CBS3 News AM News Update 07/19/2020

"I'm Jan Carabeo here today's headlines from CBS three eyewitness news dangerous. He could be here for most of the week yesterday. Temperatures soared into the nineties leaving people with little else to do, but to find some shade, but it's not just the heat. It's the humidity that will make the next few days so unbearable and dangerous. A man and a woman were wounded in a shooting in Philadelphia Strawberry Mansion neighborhood gunfire erupted overnight on the one thousand nine hundred block of North Napa. Straight investigators are now working to determine a motive and authorities are investigating a crash in upper. Truck a motorcycle collided at route. One and Drexel. Avenue in Drexel Hill it's unclear if there were any injuries to the CBS three eyewitness weather forecast now there's an excessive heat warning for Philadelphia, surrounding suburbs inland New Jersey and Delaware from noon today until eight o'clock tomorrow night today we'll be sunny with a stray thunder shower possible. The high will hit ninety eight degrees, but it'll feel more like one hundred to one hundred five degrees I'm Jan Caribou. Follow us on facebook and twitter at CBS Philly.

Jan Carabeo CBS Philadelphia Strawberry Mansio Jan Caribou CBS Drexel Drexel Hill North Napa Philadelphia facebook Philly twitter New Jersey Delaware one hundred five degrees ninety eight degrees
How Companies Are Increasing Neurodiversity in the Workplace

Knowledge@Wharton

25:54 min | 1 year ago

How Companies Are Increasing Neurodiversity in the Workplace

"Podcast is brought to you by knowledge award. The centers for disease control estimating that one. In fifty nine children is diagnosed with autism spectrum disorder for those on the spectrum. The odds are against them going to college and working the unemployment rate for autistic adults remains disproportionately high by some estimates. Just fifty eight percent of those people ever have a paying job. Some companies are now looking at how neuro diversity can be beneficial to the workplace and hiring more individuals on the spectrum. But this requires a lot of support and training for these young people some of it starting at the high school level joining us to discuss what's been done to give this growing population of chance to succeed, and how can businesses also be a part of that we are joined on the phone, but Archer Paul Shattock who is an associate professor of health management and policy at Drexel university's Dorn Saif school of public health. And he's also leader of the life course, outcomes research program at the Drexel autism. Detroit. And also joining us Peter cappelli management professor here at the school and director of the center for human resources, Paul Peter great to have you with us today. Thank you for your time. Thank you for the invitation, Dan, Peter nice to me. Yeah. Thank you. Great to have you both with us, Paul. It seems like more kids. These days are being diagnosed with with being on the spectrum. Do you think this is changing the way that people employers are thinking about autism? Yes. Absolutely. There's no doubt that there's a growing awareness about autism and the general public and certainly among businesses. It's big news. You know, twenty years ago when I started this field autism was condition that few people at heard of unless they had seen the movie Rainman, but since the diagnostic criteria for autism changed. We now include more people under that umbrella term than ever before. And the needs of that population are growing and the numbers you started off with at the top of the show translate into roughly seventy thousand. And teenagers each year entering adulthood. So you over the next ten years, we've got about seven hundred thousand young people entering also, and they need jobs, and I would think that at least right now that that this could be an untapped talent pool. Especially when we're looking at time right now where you have low unemployment at this point bad. So Lutely, absolutely. You know, many of the corporate partners and local business partners that we work with many times people are motivated initially by desire to kind of do do something good or to help needy population. But then they quickly realized that the work that we do with business partners in the community. Help them become better business people mid level managers who whose lives revolve around teams provisioned come to find out through our coaching program that if you can do a good job supervising worker on the autism spectrum. It actually makes you a better manager for all of your employees. Peter, why do you think then than businesses? Have been somewhat reluctant to hire people with this kind of condition in the past. Well, I think maybe we could just broaden it out a little bit to all kinds of possible candidates that employers have, you know, maybe not made such great efforts the higher, and and you know, it's important. Remember that employers are not rational calculating machines. They're just people like everybody else. And when they leave the office, they've got all the same dispositions and prejudices and biases and lack knowledge and everybody else has so, you know, the reason why employers didn't spend a lot of time in the past trying to hire women discriminated against them and minorities and people with other disabilities as well. You know, we're all pretty similar, and I think it's, you know, a lot of it has to do with just what they think the appropriate thing to do is employers actually do quite a bit. It based on what they think they ought to be doing. We looked into this years ago, even with efforts to try to reach out the high school kids, and you know, the biggest motivator for doing this is because employers thought this was kind of the right thing to do. But it does make it a little a little challenging as to how you crack that. And maybe we'll talk more about that minute. Well, how so how can employer in your opinion get a candidate passed the interview process, which seems to be one of the issues at play here? So that that he or she is the best candidate for a particular job. I think the problem particularly with people with disabilities has to do with a kind of different kind of prejudice. So I a couple of years ago, I spent time with the office of disability employment policy in the part of Labor Department of labor thinking about these issues, and you know, I think that the problem really for people with disabilities of all kinds getting into the workplace, and you know, Paul knows probably more about this than I do. But it's pretty widespread and all kinds of disabilities. Not just him. And I think the complication is that employers are to be honest feel uncomfortable around them, sometimes they may think there's a lot of combinations required. But if the cly, you know, at least four 's persona, you combinations are pretty trivial and the complication they've got is. They just feel uncomfortable around them and the heart of that seems to be frankly the perception that the people with disabilities. Are themselves uncomfortable or in pain or struggling and particularly may seem surprising. But the prejudice is stronger against people with disabilities that you can see right. Like somebody who's missing limb. Even though if you think about it, it's got almost nothing to do with their ability to perform contemporary jobs, which are typically not very physical. Right. And I think the reason is the employers thinking boy if that had happened to me, I would feel so awful. And that's what they think is going on with the people with disability. In fact, you know, the evidence suggests that that's not the least bit true, but getting beyond that seems to be the hard part, Peter. That's a great point. You know, when we're talking with hiring managers and talent acquisition people one of I do a little bit. I click into professor motivated and tied educate them about what we call. Our life course perspective. And if you look over the over the law, the life course, the vast majority of us will expire. These one episode of disability or severe health impairment. And so I try to reframe it for people. So they understand. But it's not a there's not only us in them. There's like us those people with disabilities. The fact of disablement if you live long and will likely happen to you as well, if you're not already to say, and so people get that they actually like relate to it. And I'll ask people like think about people in your family. You know, maybe you have aging parents you've got a brother had a car accident, and for many people that that episode of of disablement might be temporary, and they have to go through a rehab kind of process. But that that helps connected to people, and I think that mentally building. What Peter was saying you have to help people get over this. And then those people with disabilities they need help. It's it's not an awesome them. Like, we're all human beings. We all have dreams to pursue contributions to make and fundamentally these conversations are about unleashing human potential and creating robust communities that. Are the kind of communities in the kind of workplaces? They will want to be part of Paul when you're working with various companies in these types of situations. What are you hearing from them? And and what do you maybe even a totally seeing that that companies are already starting to do to try and and make these types of adjustments. Yeah. It's an exciting time to be honest. I think a lot of companies and not just companies to be clear like the corporate sector has got some some big flex initials, we work with large corporations, but also in the public sector, we have a growing partnership with the city of Philadelphia, including the airport a lot of people don't realize that the city owns the airport, and we have some of our former interns have been hired at the airport and have gotten through their first year service now have become, you know, civil service or fully vested benefits and the pension plan. So these are really good job. So we work with large employers. We phrase it not just corporate partners. And it it isn't. Exciting time one of the things that you have going on right now is your transition pathways program there at the institute tells more. Yeah, no, that's super exciting. We we got that going if you years ago with the port from president fry here at Drexel who's now so very involved leading the chamber of commerce and Philly. So the Drexel trend transition pathways initiative is growing collection of programs that we do in partnership with community partners. So Drexel, we're not looking to get into the business of doing direct service provision with with customers clients, but we have this convene catalyzing coach model where we'll work with groups of partners in the community say a large employer like the airport, and then we bring in the school district, and maybe the state vocational rehabilitation and Medicaid agencies and we convene the conversation. We have a way of working with groups around problem solving. So that their resources are aligned in a better fashion to achieve better employment. Comes we go into all these conversations assuming that no one has extra money to put into the. So we're always looking for a budget neutral way to get players interacting more effectively collaborating affectively simply by aligning existing efforts. So there's all rowing in the same direction to create these job opportunities, and it works like people get excited because as soon as you get over that defensiveness because people usually kinda guarded like, you know, they're going to ask me to send more money. Right. And I just always those conversations whether business partners like look this. This will not cost you money. If anything it will enhance your bottom line because it's going to make you better at your business. So a lot of the work. We do, you know, a lot of businesses have experience with process workflow, and increasing efficiency of workflow that kind of stuff, and they're, you know, certainly workflow process. Engineers businesses hire to come in and rethink the efficiency of their rations. We take that to level. I mean. There's this technology in our field called ABA. We do something called task analysis with a job, and we break it down very fine grain way step by step. Like, what does it take to process? Ide- cars. What does it take to check in packages in the loading dock and by by deconstructing that workflow we look at that with the supervisor. And we say, you know, number one, can we improve this workflow and make it simpler. So you can teach it to anyone. And then we show them how we train someone on the spectrum to do that task and people even people who are really skilled at workflow in Alice's. They often say like, wow, you guys like helped us rethink our whole workflow. And now we can do it better more efficiently. So it's it's a win win. I understand that. There are situations. Appall where there may be a stereotype associated to to someone who is on the spectrum as being good at math or technology. Type is is everywhere. So there's some truth to so we've. Done some research on college students who are on the spectrum and true to the stereotype that the rate of what's called stem majoring science, technology, engineering and math the rate of majoring in those fields among autistic college students is in the mid fifties. Like fifty four fifty five percent and the general student population hovers around twenty four percent. So there is a much higher rate of proclivity for those kinds of interests in this population. But then you've got the other fifty percent who I've all kinds of interests. So that that is definitely a stereotype, that's not entirely unfounded. But it would be a mistake for players to assume that everyone on the autism. Spectrum is good at math or a natural was technology appear that that's still is you kind of luted before it's it's a very important component in this day and age of work that even though we have that low unemployment rate, there is still a a valuable number of people out there that are potential employee. From the for the workforce. Yeah. I think in the good news reason, this is a good time to make progress on these things is that employers. Understandably been reluctant to pay more, and you know, one of the ways you could make recruitment problems by raising your wages. But if you don't wanna do that, you gotta get more creative on the recruiting side. And you know, frankly, they haven't been very recr- very creative yet. But I think they're they're starting to get more creative. You see in other ways, for example, employers being much less concerned now about criminal records for employee's, and, you know, much more open to higher people who are unemployed. There was a time. I didn't want anybody who didn't have a job ready. You know? So this is a good time in that sense for for us to make progress, and including all kinds of people who have had difficulty getting jobs before we are joined on the phone by Paul Shaddock of Drexel University. Peter cappelli from here at the school your comments. Are welcome at eight four four Warton eight four four nine four two seven eight six six or if you like send us a comment on Twitter at biz radio one thirty two are my Twitter account, which is at Dan loan yellow, anyway, twenty one I would imagine that when you're when you're talking about the the business landscape that there would be benefits for supervisors managers in the like in teaching other employees about supervising, logistic employees. Correct. Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. Again, these are these are generalize -able skills. This isn't that's what I was trying to get get over to people on the first conversations is this is not this is not a charity act to do something nice for personal with autism. This is about, you know, having a more inclusive workforce because we've Allieu diversity in our society. It's about connecting with your customers. You know, giving back to the initial comments at the top of the hour. Autism is everywhere. I mean, who doesn't know somebody that the fact by autism now. Right. So. And so a lot of businesses have clearly gotten onto that that there is a threat of social marketing upside to being known as an autism friendly workplace, right? 'cause there are families out there who have members the autism spectrum. And those families are customers in part of it is also emphasizing the fact that that these are careers, not just necessarily jobs. Correct. That is correct. Yeah. And that's another thing that we're really passionate about with our working transition pathways here Drexel is we're trying to change the conversation around the how how we approach employment for people with disabilities. More generally, which to be honest, and Peter, you crack me if you think I'm wrong, but my experience working more generally in the field of disability employment is that the thinking is like we have to find a job and get this person placed and then and then our job is done. Right. And you know in this day and age, you know, we're we're decades away from that chapter in our society. History where people would get a job after high school and stay in that job for thirty or forty years, right? Those days are gone. We need to be able to train young people to have the general competency to bail to shift jobs upskill have a career tryout different careers. And and we expect that for our young people with disabilities as we do for young people without disabilities. And so we talk much more about career life cycle management than we do about job placement. Peter. Yeah. Well, I guess that sounds right. I think the challenge unfortunately for people with disabilities all kinds is that in the old days. Maybe you just had to persuade an employer wants to hire you, and you know, now, the complication is places closed down offices get shutdown people get laid off, and you gotta go back into the labor market again. And and persuade another employer. The good news is that it's it's far easier for anybody who's having a hard time to get a job. If you've already got one if you had one before it's cracking the first time so hard, Dan, if you wouldn't mind, I I would like if Paul could say just a little bit about we talk about the autism spectrum about what are we talking about? And what are the attributes of people you're trying to place, and and what is different about them if anything and other employees that employers would bump into probably be happy to address that. So it's a hard question and. Because autism spectrum as same Asli diverse and heterogeneous, and so we try to tailor our programs different sort of segments of the autism spectrum. If you will so we have you know, couple of programs that are specifically targeted at creating internship opportunities for teenagers inner city, you who have autism and also an intellectual disability and many of those young people cannot speak or they have very limited verbal ability. So we got them trained up with communication devices or hype Pat or something like that. And the needs of that group of people is extremely different from the say the young people on campus. Here who are matriculated undergraduate students who are on the autism spectrum and Drexel has a flagship program that supports autistic college students, and to my knowledge, I think the only free one in the country most most colleges charge families extra fee to support their students with autism. And then use those young people are are very distinct. But what they all have in common that the core. Issue if you will in autism spectrum disorder is twofold, one is a difficulty with what we call social communication. So for those who do have the ability to speak and use language, they often have difficulty using language and social way to interact reciprocally to be able to sort of take take the perspective of another person conversation. And then also this general catch all category of what we call repetitive interests and behaviors so for some people they might have like a really particular interest, and you know, heating, vents or geography or the Simpsons or something like that. And or they might have physical behaviors like rocking back and forth or flicking their fingers or making odd noises and kind of repetitive manner. And particularly those those outward behaviors like you said earlier for people that makes for people with autism. Have those repetitive behaviors rocking back and forth and so forth, then it becomes a very visible disability, right? And that can be off putting for some people, and we have to educate people that you know, you don't have to be scared of this. It's just it's just how they soothe in common. So that's that's their form of fidgeting, which which Paul I mean, part of what we see I think in in business in general, and in many cases in the office setting is is a growing level of stress by people of all kinds are dealing with the stresses of being in the office. Great point. And so one of the one of the things we work on with all of our autistic, interns, and young employees is stress management and coping with anxiety and again like as we're teaching our young people with autism. How to manage stress and anxiety? Those are skills that were sharing with supervisors, and they report back to us at those are things that they share with other employees, and we're helping people in supervisory roles understand the link between anxiety and performance and the really enlightened leadership and supervision should include an awareness of. How hangs -iety? There's an edge. You there's a little bit of anxiety can make people perform at higher level too, much anxiety, people shut down and and get over wild. And I wanted to circle back to one thing, you know, people tend to think of, you know, autism employment is being kind of a back office thing. Right. And because people with autism aren't good with people. Right. That's I just kind of said that. But I will tell you like we've seen some remarkable successes with autistic employees succeeding on the front end of business. So an example, not this is not one of ours. But I was out of DMV recently out in the burbs getting my license renewed. And who's the greeter at the DNC this young man, clearly, he's rocking back and forth. And he is London failing polite, and he knows he has completely mastered. All the different things that you need. No matter. What reason you're coming to DMV for if you're getting your license renewed or? Picking up plates or whatever he's like these are the forms. You need you need to stand in line number seven and do this this. He's like he's perfect. Like, he's got it down absolute pleasant. He's unflappable. He doesn't he doesn't respond off of people's negative energy if they're anxious. He was amazing It was actually good for me see that. 'cause I, you know suffer from my own stereotypes and buys. He's and I need to be challenged on those as well. Well, that that then tells wants me to ask you about the difference between how this is being perceived in a private sector position compared to a public sector position. Which obviously working at DMV is right. Absolutely. It doesn't get more, you know, in the public and that the greeter at DNV we're joined by Dr Paul Shattock of Drexel University. Peter cappelli of the worker your comets, welcome at eight four four Wharton eight four four nine four two seven eight six or if you'd like send us a comment on Twitter app is radio one thirty two or my Twitter account, which is at Dan Loney? Twenty one one of the topics that we mentioned in the in the open here, Paul is neuro diversity. And this obviously is part of what we're discussing here. Because of the fact that there are variety of disorders that could be in play here. Yeah. Exactly. So nerd Aversa? There's there's no consensus. Exactly what that term means. I see that term using a lot of different ways the way we've taken that on certainly interacting with employers is. Yeah, we make the the analogy to an ecosystem ecosystem is stronger when there's diversity you have multiple different kinds of plant animals coexisting. Same thing in a workplace if you only have one type of person in a workplace that's not good for business. You know, having a diverse. Workplaces good for many reasons and diversity simply understanding that people's cognitive and social abilities vary a lot, and it it's another really common story. I hear from supervisors is how working with an autistic employees gives them a fresh perspective on things like they'll see things through that authentic, employee's is the autistic employees will make a comment about like why do you guys do this like that and people will kind of stop in their tracks? And just say like, yeah, why do we do? And so, you know, having that that diversity of perspectives in the workplace, I think we all realize is good for business. And nerdy adversity. Simply means that the diversity concept gets extended to sort of neurologic cognitive and social functioning, Peter you hearing, I guess anecdotally, some of these these benefits that are coming in that companies are seeing as well. Well, it's a good question, Dan, because I think lots of organizations are confused about these issues because on the one hand you do hear all this stuff about diversity broadly defined. And I think they recognize that it shouldn't just be that the kind of diversity you can see about any other hand, you hear am also talking about this hiring for cultural fit all the time, which I I worry about a lot when when employers say that because I think that kind of is pushing in the other direction, and it's kind of worrying. To be honest because. Agreed. They rarely define it. You know, what is cultural fifth Nin, and they can't agree as to what it was looked like. And so when you do that, it just ends up being code for hiring people who, you know, I think are like me or that I'm comfortable with and you know, for reasons were more comfortable with people who are more similar to us at least initially. So you know, that's pushing in the other direction. So I think it is important for employers to think this through and and think about what they really need. And and go from there and take and take action on what they really need Paul. Yeah. No. I completely agree that that that phrase, you know, cultural fit or we're we're looking for somebody with a good fit that that's I mean. Often code for we want people like us and that that's it's just narrow. I don't I don't think we can afford to think that way act that way in in. Today's today's workplace gentlemen. Thank you both for your time. Paul. Thank you again. Peter great to talk again, Dan, thanks for having a really pleasure being with you. Thank you great debut, both with Dr Paul Shaddock from Jesse university. Peter cappelli from here at the school for more insight from knowledge Warton, please. Visit knowledge dot Morton dot U, Penn dot EDU.

Peter cappelli autism Paul Dan Loney Drexel university supervisor Drexel Archer Paul Shattock Twitter Drexel Dr Paul Shaddock professor Detroit DMV associate professor Lutely Labor Department of labor director
Episode 53: Nick Bayer of Saxbys

Taking Care in Business

30:39 min | 1 year ago

Episode 53: Nick Bayer of Saxbys

"This is taking care in business. A podcast dives into the topic of corporate social responsibility ability for many different perspectives host kathy potty hayes is an expert in c._s. armed philanthropic giving and her co host vicki. Wilson is the founder and c._e._o. Of bulletin group a unified marketing company that was also the first b. corp certified company in indiana. Cathy vicky became friends and equally passionate about c._s._s._r. When they first worked together several years ago join them as they talk about why it is always worthwhile to take care in business. This season's podcast is brought to you by sexton's extends creek productions and independent design agency offering video production audio production web development digital media design and much more are they believe in pushing creative boundaries to achieve excellence and taking a unique collaborative approach to every project they believe brand equals reputation and and that businesses with the best brands or those who develop a bond of trust and shared values with their audience it can be a real struggle for businesses to gain the trust of their audience since when they can't represent themselves accurately or consistently that's why sexton's creek productions was created. Tell businesses communicate in an authentic and consistent assistant manner learn more about building trust with an audience by visiting sexton's creek productions dot com. Hey kathy hey hey how are you. I'm okay. You're sounding kind of strange. Freely yeah <hes> well. I i did burn my tongue. This morning and i'm gonna have to talk to our guest today about this because it was when coffee oh yeah i do that all the time. I know well. I think i you know i have this. I always have a cup of coffee in the morning and i put <hes> you know little cream or something in it so it's never too hot but then i filled up my little thermos for the drive down here. <hes> <music> thermos must really worked because i went to take a sip and it was so hot i mean you have to take leads off of those things because i had had the same thing really yeah yeah. It stays that way forever well. I i guess my co. My coffee maker makes it. You know i used to have a problem. I burn my tongue with mcdonald's donald coffee all the time which i love. You know that's really i. I love our next guy. I know all right so <music>. Our next guest is really inspiring. <hes> his life story has translated into a change making business with the team that spans over nine hundred members across the northeast north east that represent the change makers of tomorrow. Nick bayer is the founder and c._e._o. Of sack spy's social impact and coffee company their mission and to make life better sack spy's accomplishes this through a number of innovative programs including the pioneering experiential learning program which is in partnership with drexel university and it's the nation's first entirely student run cafe where students are in full academic credit and wages just through university cooperative education program. Nick is also in addition to being c._e._o. Of saks b.'s <hes> currently the entrepreneur in residence at cornell cornell university school of hotel administration an adjunct perfects professor at drexel university and the executive in residence at temple university's fox school of business temples where my <hes> stepdad went and twenty seventeen he was named the entrepreneur of the year by the greater philadelphia chamber of commerce as well as <hes> e- wise social entrepreneur of the year and he lives in philadelphia and we had such a great <hes> pre interview view with him so welcome back. Thanks ladies. It's my pleasure to be on so i just have to ask what in the world started you down on this path because you'd have had quite a bit of success. I appreciate that <hes> you know although i i think that we're still very much a work in progress and i think the the best in front of us but it's pretty circuitous path to get into the quote unquote coffee and social impact space but you know it's i think like most entrepreneurs are most people that what would they do for a living you sort of take your life experiences and say i'm either going to stand for something even better than than what i came from or i'm gonna do something entirely different than what i do and so my life circumstances where i've to awesome parents but they started a family way earlier than they wanted to or ready to and so it didn't get an education they pretty much took whatever jobs they get for eighteen years living in their in their house. You know i i heard them feel uninspired inspired by the work that they were doing in wish that they could have done things differently and so when i went away to college the first my family would be able to do so. I saw that as like a great right opportunity for me not just take a step forward but but to really sort of leverage those life experiences do something actually also do and you know looking on my life at that time and inserting today. I'm at my best when i'm doing things for other people. That's just what makes me feel good. It's what makes me motivated you did and so. I really wanted to build something off particularly business <hes> that would do well for other people. Wow that's great. That's that's that's just <hes>. It's it's so wonderful to hear about. People who who just feel that way about you know waking up every day and and thinking about others instead of just yourself <hes> you know. I think what's great about it. I i heard you guys intro. Obviously i think what what's so great about about that. It's like it's. It's businesses so much bigger than me. Now you know there was a time early early on when it felt really good. I'd wake up every single day and i knew i'd have a long day. A million things we would happen. I would know about wouldn't know about but today we have over nine hundred team members the average age of our team or small twenty years old <music> so we get the opportunity to be able to sort of proselytize the importance of doing something that you love to do not just for myself and my management management team or the leadership team in the company but for lots and lots of young people from all different types of backgrounds so i i think it's both a heavy responsibility but it's pretty awesome that we thought to help you know the next generation of change makers do something like that to which is take care of people. How did the mission mission make life better. Come to be so you know when i first started socrates. I knew that i wanted to be in the people business and that's why i picked the coffee industry. I i really wanted a business that any and everybody enjoy and experience and so you know i love that will serve about fifteen thousand guests on any given day okay and we'll sort of people that are multimillionaires serve people that's out to sell them street than before and we served on both with dignity and respect and they share space together but what i didn't didn't realize and what i've grown to love about our business same thing to be said from from an employment perspective so we have people who have p._h._d.'s axes with people that we've hired out of homeless. The shelters of job reentry programs and everybody starts the same spot has absolutely no ceiling hindrance to the growth we have people from both walks of life with grown unbelievable unbelievable careers over a lot of years in our company and so make life better takes a lot of one's ross like we wanna make lives better <hes> first and foremost for a team member who want them to love what they they do love working with each other every day when they have a great time and bring their full cells to work. It's amazing the kinds of smiles and the kind of impact they can happen ourselves thousands of guests every day and and i want to be able to take our business and take the success of our business and make our communities better yeah we we live. I live in philadelphia alpha which of our businesses headquartered and you know when you come into philadelphia's he's listening high-rises you see all these colleges and universities are big companies but we still have have twenty seven percent of our people out of poverty minds. We have a lot a lot of people in this city who are just not getting opportunities to enjoy their lives and i think it's the responsibility responsibility businesses like our were social entrepreneurs to not just run successful businesses which he used that success to be able to help our community and pick people up out of poverty opportunities to be able to love what they do and that's what makes us better means. Dos was that part of your mission when you <hes> began began or did it evolve into a mission later on <hes> you know years later yeah. It's a great question. I mean it was certainly in my heart like it was it was what i wanted to do. But i neither government economics degree from college i graduated sign where weren't teaching entrepreneurship and so i didn't realize that the best businesses out there those defined mission values and that you right into find your culture and then you want your business i sort of edwards i thought i had to you know be a good boss. Be a good leader. You know <hes> sir my people really well so a lot of coffee and then you could start investing seen secreting unique culture that completely backwards and <hes> you know when i got to become <hes> and i'm sure and residents cornell house politics wall. I've fortunately was was. It's probably more of a student or a student. Then i was <hes> you know t shirt for a while but i i got to learn that the best businesses you know the best sort live <hes> business advantages is unbelievable company culture and so i was about six or seven years and we hadn't yet literally written our our mission statement gore or values it was. It was sort of their ethos there. We've always been a business about our people in our communities but when you blink and you've got fifty two hundred nine hundred people in the company and it's not a if it's not actually defined in britain down and hire train them supported to be very hard word for your business to sort of operate efficiently and productively in the same direction and so there was probably about six or seven years ago that we actually find. I need to find our mission sitting there were allowed us and megan look at the trajectory of our company and we have had some success up to that point but nothing like the success we've had after we actually redefined our culture. You're single thing that we do. I hear that a lot <hes> you know we do. We hear that a lot. Did you have someone who was a main influence in your life. I mean other than your sounds like you. You know adore your parents and they were excellent. But is there someone outside side of that. That was a huge influence to you a mentor yeah. You know i would say i oftentimes we use. I can't i can't think are enough offense. Middle school teacher named miss the nation <hes> you might it's funny. Life is all about is sort of relatives and my parents were young start. A family had some rocking times <hes> doing their life and so people like especially when i went on to cornell or went on to like yell in the business world comments tough like like your parents are so young and having a rocky but where i grew up like i had both of my parents and my life a lot of people that i didn't have their parents life and so i was fortunate. It's a map perspective but i didn't go to great schools early in my life. I had a teacher in seventh grade. Mrs pulled my parents aside and it's pretty much told him told them that they needed to get me somewhere else for school. I needed to go somewhere. It'd be more resources <hes> probably more structure and better the opportunity for me to be able to learn <hes> at the level but under just be able to learn and that really changed my change in my life want my parents some your way to a private private catholic high school that i did not enjoy a couple of years now cast. I was different than everybody else different neighborhood <hes> but then when i was in college i had no the idea what it was. I wanted to do for my head. Spend summers doing finance new york and real estate. Mostly angeles let just charlotte. I was sort of a swear hanging around hall and and all this is asian or her telling me that <hes> she's like looking at seeing where you are in your life you know will make me retire happy when he should be able to give people you know opportunities and i remember that moment being like doc. I want to have that feeling in this nation <hes> but i've always been attracted business. I liked the competition of business about the stage in my life. I think if you wanna be able to make nick mass social impact change i think businesses a great way to be able to do it and so it was mrs just big have a big impact on my life both early on and later isn't it <hes> e. l. p. the experiential learning program come to be so i had originally started tax franchise because because really there's no reason for that but because i really had no experience and i wanted to be able to scale a business and i had a limited means cockle doesn't lobby w. that <hes> and when cornell created the pills institute entrepreneurship and i said we wanted to i two hundred resonance you know i spent a lot of time at what what more will consider the the the greatest house powder school world is really the first time and yeah they teach things like culture and plus polity and trading people while and and so when i went up there i learned that cornell teaches like it's this big beautiful building in the middle of campus on one side of the building is as four star hotel the building in the classroom since you could literally like the in class learning your financial management and that you could push the doors open to go sort of see how it works and outrage about hotel and the idea is that if you can understand how hotel operates you can essentially apply that to any other industry. It's got all the same moving parts of the happening insurance company your your healthcare company or whatever happens to be. I remember the dean of products elsewhere telling you that <hes>. I remember thinking to myself driving back philadelphia tonight. I'm like the same thing could be said about baseling sack species but i think the difference between a hotel cafe is eighteen to twenty two year olds are spending a lot of the defining any moments that who is in a cafe very attracted to that kind of business and so then i was looking for an alternative means to grow i'll talk franchise and that's sprite's figured out super robot was introduced to the president of drexel university's a really innovative leader in higher ed and i essentially presented him half. I thought out idea where his students would essentially designed their own on jaffa socrates and then exclusively on it for faulk mocatta and they get headed nerve nerve with that because they really needed to critical things or successful great real estate through the middle of campus and needed what we've always called. The people aren't as their c._e._o.'s. It was a copy executive officers and i needed a student c._e._o. Through a minimum of six months and this would have to be what they did. They couldn't run out of the business at ten o'clock doc in the morning and go run to an accounting class. They had do this but no one needs to delay graduation. No one needs to stay in school and other semester we have you know rising tuition the student debt right now and so john was the perfect i partner to the allowed me to pick some real estate in the middle of his campus and tap into his coop program where we have now the original that the young people actually call o._g. Drexel tips to from on campus or do you drexel. We've now habitat about hanner eleven and students c._e._o.'s out of that business so these are students who are on business it does about a million dollars in the play about forty of their peers you all the community thirty marketing plans and every single month they come into my headquarters and so and they present their profitable statement in front of my my my executive management team i didn't know what profit and loss statement was uh when i was their age now able to articulate a profit and loss statement and through the management thirty five or forty years and they've got competition all over six ways. It's really phenomenal to watch what are experiencing program has become i mean i think that is so i'm such a huge believer in that's actually how i i learned experiential learning you know and <hes> having a minor in business i i mean you've really really didn't prepare. Prepare me for a whole lot. You know <hes> and i'm not sure that a major would have either you know because getting that the real experience is so that's. I think that's just genius yeah. Yeah i mean i think the interesting thing is there is that we've got such great learning happening in the classroom but in order to get sort sort of a holistic learning experience. It's got to be able to get out of class rule. Apply it in in a pilot knowing. You're gonna make mistakes. That's a tough thing for young people. Is they feel like when they go into a job. If they make a mistake they're gonna knock get their internship won't turn into a job and they're gonna lose. Their job or won't get promoted like the best things things that happen. Business come through mistakes you know and i started franchising and that wasn't the way for us to be able to grow but if i had never franchised which is essentially you work out of business model and you allow another outside the organization in order to be able to use that business model run their own business. That's exactly what our strengths learning program. It's sort of a forty five year old friends you puts up all this money to to run run a sack species. We use eighteen to twenty two. They don't put up any capital but the entrepreneurial they decide things. Make decisions learn learn from mistakes and run a real business so i think that this is such a critical way and in one of the things that i love is that it's completely edna thick coffee or food and beverage or hospitality like right. Now i think about drexel closes its closest campus to my office. There's two saxby ashby's both experiential learning on that campus the chew students c._e._o.'s that are there right. Now one's a marketing major in one. I kid you not in nursing. Wow so <hes> yeah. I mean margot is a is a is majoring in nursing and there's probably a fifty percent likelihood. She stays in nursing who might move into something like entrepreneurship and if she he stays in nursing she's now going to have such a better business mindset and level of experience that when she goes into nursing she's going to have such a unique skillset to people who have just stayed in the nursing profession and that's what i love is that it's attracted people from that we now have almost dozen extreme joining partnerships across the mid atlantic and east coast. We've had i believe thirty six different majors spe- students c._e._o.'s for us so far which is a pretty cool thing everyone can can use a good business background. I mean i i had no business background. So when i started poulsen group it was really i would have killed all to have been in the program because i had to create my own little program to just learn all these things i have a daughter who's <hes> <hes> at oberlin and you know it's a great school. They give them a lot of opportunity for really good internships and <hes>. I just tell her you have to do internships that are going to be diverse and give you all kinds of backgrounds so because you don't know what you're gonna do. You're at had a liberal arts college. Earn english major you know <hes> but this is the perfect thing for really any any student. I think liberal arts business background ground. You're all set right right. <hes> so nick you all are in the process of getting your b. Corp certification is that right. Did you mention that we are yes. How's that going for. You knowing yeah so. It's easy for me to say. It's going really well but i'm i'm <music>. I'm not the one who's <hes> doing a lot of the grueling work. Our head of social impact with tax-based grace manning is absolute superstar and she's sort of been wrestling this beast to a finnish over the last year you know the the assessment is arduous and thorough <hes> and also it's more the a sort of larger business that you are the more moving parts the more challenging it is our into there. There's a lot at play with us. Their private equity back you got all these occasions on these people people and history of the business and all those kinds of things but grace just on a phenomenal job obviously past our assessment probably about six months ago our audit phase right now now. I know it's all things computer to track as as they are <hes> t._v. Fingers crossed. We should be approved and certified b. You quote by by the end of the summer which is a pretty awesome thing yeah. That is <hes>. Do you find you have opportunity obviously on on college campuses to work with younger people <hes>. Do you find that the b. corp certification sort of resonates there that there's an understanding their tremendously yeah. I think there's a tremendous interest inside myself but a lot of people my company speak to sustainability classes now nausea classes yet where the core of entrepreneurship if you ask most talks sponsored right now what part of entrepreneurship is most interesting. It's usually social entrepreneurship that even includes like the one of the universities. I speak most frequently literally seventeen walks my my the office is working which is very very well regarded <hes> business precipitous. I've been in that classroom for y'all in those classrooms for probably over doc in ten years ago. Were was not a sort of like one of the preeminent finance right. Most people went into banking consulting in now. I remember grace. This manning reference for four was with me. I spoke to a social entrepreneurship class with the hell out their first year second years to come. I done that probably five or six years ago now. Probably all this was a huge audits standing room. Only i was speaking so many suits there to just think goldman sachs it mackenzie some of the top world now upon graduation they were planning to go do microfinance and africa or planning to start a beat more run on a before impacted by saying it was amazing to watch the world change and that's working you know and i and i see it sort of cross but at the scale right now is a social entrepreneurship ship is incredibly important to young people and they're becoming more and more sort of hesse. The importance of what actually is which is part of the motivation for us. It's both authentic to who we are but we also realized that we ever platform dealt the next generation than even bigger and better than than we're doing. It's oxy's to to go through the <hes> you know certification and to have an understanding so in your ask questions will be <hes> extremely helpful for you you just having gone through it myself and you know the recertification that they require seems daunting but it's actually one of my favorite things <hes> because because you get to look at how you're performing and make improvements and <hes> judgments yeah. I think it is exciting. I we always talk about how oh getting turnovers. You refer pairing this mindset does if we are a deep work and that the analogy i always give. Is that like just because we chin. This bar. Are what's happening now. Is we're going to raise the bar. The bar's gonna come hire so if you look at sort of the scale of like yes in actual environmental social and governance it fascism has always been strong and societal and back into the governance knock seventy percent of my management news other <hes> female indoor people call like we've always been very strong business but environmental has never been a focus or a passion primarily because it was something that i just never knew much about. I think the next thing that we're going to see the combination of becoming corp certified just over and over who's here in south philadelphia. I have a coffee team. That's just traveled to eight. Hey different countries three different kinds of six months and we bought all of our coffee and direct relationship so they they came relationships. We bought everything out surfing the coffee with the growers on their farms. We paid above market for all of the product works long term relationships to buy their product and help them with their their farms does needed. I think now our next stage recertification process will be how do we take the environmental commitment to the next level and i'm really excited for that because it's it's been something that we had focused nearly as much on in postures as oxy's i find you know we do talk to a fair amount of be corporation and unless you're environmentally only focused like that's your purpose it's. I think that's an area that that most organizations struggle with <hes>. It's certainly seems so. That's that's interesting. The one of the questions that we always ask our guests nick is what advice would you give to another company <hes> who was either interested in in <hes> developing a social enterprise or or growing sort of a social responsibility platform so i i you know part of the reason why i try to spend as much time in higher. Ed is a duke or or in the classroom with with entrepreneurship is that i think that one of our one of our killys heels right right now. An education teaching entrepreneurship is that we oftentimes skip over the importance the finding mission culture core values. We teach how how to write a business plan. Partners swot analysis raising capital. We teach all that very well. I think it gets lost over how important defining the mission statement quote is actually really are and so i think for the companies that are saying you know what like so it was a lot of things well we wanna take it to an accident. Maybe get to a level of being before certified well. We're getting off. Audits are impact. You're getting audited and certified the worst better company. I think you have to start with your permission. I think everybody needs circus because like reevaluates as i see it from a first hand perspective. That was one company before machine. Core values weren't entirely different competent. I'm really proud of after reading our mission values because your culture so mission core values allows you to define who you are you ultimately hire your people based on that. Ah people that create culture and if you don't have mission or values you're going to hire people who aren't necessarily going to be fully what what kind of impact they're trying to make so i look got it like mission. Corvallis plus people equals culture and culture as where business is really grow and differentiate from one another so i really encourage people even if you even if you you are one of the rarefied companies have defined mission or values and actually talk about it. You actually interviewed people next hiring and emotional decisions based on. I encouraged people to sort of reevaluate those to make sure that they're in support of it not a hindrance to the kind of impact that you're you're going to look to make his according conversation. That's really well said well said <hes> okay neck. We <hes> i could go on and talk to you. All i think <hes> <hes> but we we need to wrap it up so tell us and our listeners how they can find out more information about sex fees so so we are were pretty aggressive. Social media users the business but <hes> you can find out <hes> a little bit more about company. Our menu are extremely learning program. Hello saxby dot com and then you know we're we're <hes> we love social media. We're hiring funds. Oh finding sock spy's arm and then <hes> or we're just saxby on both instagram twitter and then for me. I also like linked in an instagram so nick day or via white yar linked in nick bayer six on on instagram. I think it's a good way to sort of get a feel for our business. Which obviously is about mission core values. It's about making impacts but it's all that is done through people you know we we are blessed to have amazing cultural aligned. More people are getting up early. Allows differentiate yeah well nick. It's been delightful to talk to you today as well as in the pre interview keep doing the great work. We're gonna be watching you from from afar and maybe we'll make our way to philadelphia sometime sometime and and <hes> try your great coffee so i would love to host you when you do. Thank you guys so much. I really appreciate it. Yes thank you bye bye bye bye bye bye. Let's give a big thank you to matthew assoc- our podcast engineer you can visit the taking care of business website at taking care in the business dot com or just visit us on instagram twitter or facebook at taking care in biz. That's taking care in b is is e. If you have questions or comments you can email us at anytime at info at taking care of business dot com. Thank you for joining us today and and until next time take care in business. This season's podcast is is brought to you by sexton's creek productions an independent design agency offering video production audio production web development digital media design design and much more they believe in pushing creative boundaries to achieve excellence and taking a unique collaborative approach to every project they believe brand and equals reputation and that businesses with the best brands or those who develop a bond of trust and shared values with their audience. It can be a real struggle for businesses to gain the trust of their audience when they can't represent themselves accurately or consistently that's why sexton's creek productions was created to help businesses communicate in an authentic authentic and consistent manner learn more about building trust with an audience by visiting sexton's creek productions dot com.

philadelphia Nick bayer sexton drexel university cornell drexel instagram b. corp founder saxby ashby grace manning indiana partner Cathy vicky Wilson cornell house executive
Innovating Outside of Sick-Care with Saya Nagori, Medical Director, SimpleHealth

Outcomes Rocket

19:05 min | 1 year ago

Innovating Outside of Sick-Care with Saya Nagori, Medical Director, SimpleHealth

"Hey comes racket listeners. Thanks for tuning into the podcast. Again, tired of your businesses healthcare costs unpredictably increasing every year healthcare costs are typically businesses second or third line item expense. And if you're like most employers it's an expense that's growing faster than your revenue. Luckily employers Nova health has the solution Nevada health is a full-service healthcare consulting firm with proven strategies to lower your healthcare costs by up to thirty percent or more. They operate on a fee for service model and never markup any of their medical or pharmaceutical claims. None of your employees have to leave their doctor or pharmacist, either their health captive and pharmacy benefit manager, are the most cost effective and transparent solutions in the whole country. What they do is not magic. It's just honest. So if you're tired of over spending on health insurance, and wanna learn more, visit outcomes rocket that health slash save. For a free spend analysis to see how you too could save by switching to Nevada health. That's outcomes. Rocket dot health slash save. For your free spend, the now six outcomes rocket that health slash save. Welcome back to the podcast today. I have the standings, Dr cya Nagorski. She's a medical director at simple, health, coma, surgeon co-founder of this company, Dr Syon gory completed her undergrad training at Villanova university, where she earned her bachelor's degree, and was presidential scholar. She then attended Drexel college of medicine, where she was recipient of the Arnold p gold foundation, Bella ship for her work in patient education in regards to diabetic ibises following her schooling at Drexel. She completed her ophthalmology residency program at Saint Luke's Roosevelt hospital system, in New York City, where she was chief resident she then completed a glaucoma fellowship at the Kresge eye institute in Michigan doctor negoti is a coma specialist. Anterior segment, surgeon, performing, both cataract surgery, as well as surgery for coma, she's been published in several major journals in survey of ophthalmology. And also archives about the malady, but she's very fond of performing business that will help patients that are not as sick. They should that need services that aren't in the Norma healthcare setting and some excited, a dive into some of her experience in the traditional healthcare space as well as some of the work that she's innovating and socio just want to welcome you to the podcast. Thanks so much, really happy to be here. Absolutely. Now tell me something what, what got you into the medical sector. So I think it was just predestined from when I was younger, my, my family is full of physicians and my mom, which equally had a lot of health issues when I was younger, she had rheumatic heart disease. She had a Whipple for pancreatic cancer, which happened to be a non life threatening pathology in she is still alive, and well, then she had a pacemaker place, so I have just been. Inada the hospital through her and have really had some amazing physicians who helped my family's statistically end. So just been around medicine my whole life. Yeah. Sounds like it was something that just got you from the beginning. You're positively affected all the work. They did with your mom, and you're like, man. This is this is for me. Yeah, exactly. I just it didn't seem like there is anything else that I was gonna do love it. So Siat now, your diving into entrepreneurship. And, and with your work at simple health. What's a hot topic that you think needs to be on health leaders agenda today? And how are you guys approaching it? Definitely think that telemedicine is a very hot topic. I think that we need to be approaching it as health leaders number one reason, is that the patient population is growing, and there's an anticipated physician shortage of almost one hundred twenty thousand doctors by twenty thirty two as the number of physicians is going down. And the number is rising. Something needs to help fill that gap and telemedicine is a really great way to do that. I think some people are very resistant telemedicine, and they think that maybe it's not safe or maybe it's going to take physician jobs away. And the reality is, there's plenty of work to be done until medicine is really only going to be an asset for both patients and sessions to a great call out in a lot of folks have started. But there's some resistance the opportunity for enterprising physicians that are not part of a large hospital chain. I think is very large in that they're they have more flexibility there. I know that you've, you've done some more cared at to help these types of practices. You wanna dive into some of what that looks like in what you've done. Sure. Yes. So there's two major ways that I have been helping the private sector and physicians get involved in the space. I actually created a telemedicine course for his that they can use to basically jumpstart their telemedicine. Careers. If there's not really any education out there for implementation of telemedicine that is useful and practical and Saint, and that was my goal is to deliver telemedicine implementation education to private doctors, and doctors looking to expand their care doctors looking to expand, what they are able to offer their patients and provide virtual options for their existing patients. And so I've done that course and then on the Entra Pura side, me and a few other entrepreneurs physicians as well as telemedicine positions are hosting in entrepreneurial conference, four physicians in New York in April of this year. And that is really intended to help physicians that are looking to develop apps, technology innovative, ideas, innovative products, whether it's a drug, whether it's a makeup line, whether it's a mobile app were were looking to help them. Get to the next level and. Be the next generation of innovators. Ceo's mother always finding ways to make it more lean. Make it more practical thing. You're doing some great work cya. And so, tell us an example of something you've done so far to help improve outcomes, and and, and improve efficiencies by doing things differently. So specifically, I can talk about simple health, and we were originally called simple contacts, because we started with vision exams, and we can now confidently say that we have had over a million patients use the app and retrea years. We've had zero adverse outcomes from patients using our vision exam for contact lens, renewal. So just to give you some background contact lenses when used correctly and when taken care of and removed appropriately put in appropriately and changed at the right time are very, very safe device. Eighty percent of contact lens users use the same. Description year to year. Not every single one of those patients knees, a complete full dilated eye exam, especially if they are healthy with no medical problems as symptomatic in Novica changes. So what we did initially when we developed the company a few years ago is we developed a online vision exam for those patients who can then seamlessly renew their contacts and not have to go into the doctor's office for an unnecessary visit, but we still do an assessment. It's not that we're just renewing the context without any information. There is still a vision exam, Don. There is still a video taken of the either still in medical history questionnaire done. And now we have enough data over three years to show. The we've been able to fulfil thousands of prescriptions in renewed thousands of pairs of contact lenses for healthy patients. We've had zero adverse outcomes from any of that. And that's pretty powerful data. That's pretty powerful outcome in key. Keeping these people out of the doctor's office for a brute teen healthy. Visit that's such a great great call out. And when you have these patients that don't need to attend the doctor's office. Why have them show up with the number of physicians really meaning to be a lot, higher with the number of patients that are increasing services like size are going to be crucial for the way that we take care of the population. So I think that's a great recommendation thereby by Dr gory. And one that, that we should be thinking about more broadly across the healthcare system. We know what are things that we could keep people at home for and take care of them through services like an app, a website or telemedicine, he shared time when you had a setback in what you learn from it. Sure. So I think one of the biggest challenges in telemedicine that we experience and I wouldn't even say it's a setback. Sort of a common challenge that we face, as a recurring challenge. And sometimes even a recurring setback is that there's a lot of education involved in telemedicine. So we are in ehre of evolution and things are changing in. So there's a lot of people that are jumping ahead that are all about artificial intelligence in a in technology, and then there's a group of people in the middle, and then there's a group of people that are really resistant to a lot of that. So every year, telemedicine usually comes up in one to three or four state legislatures across the country, and I think educating people about telemedicine in the ways that it can be used safely is something that we have to do every year, not just as a company, but also as physicians and making and being involved in that discussion about telemedicine being educated ourselves as physicians about telemedicine and helping to guide that discussion on telemedicine. Listen is really critical because telemedicine is a state by state regulated issue. And we need to be able to educate our legislators educate. The patients needs state on the ways telemedicine can be used safely and what it's appropriate for maybe once not appropriate for. And so that is one of just the daily challenges or yearly challenges that we face, I would say any telemedicine provider, faces in education and making sure that telemedicine is, is being used appropriately. Think it's a good call out. There's some some great opportunities out there. Maybe even looking at it because from what I understand in order to see a patient say in Michigan, you need to be licensed in Michigan. You can't necessarily see them from, you know, Virginia. Yes. Of course, you need to be licensed in each state that you intend to practice helmets them in. I mean. I mean, you know, just thinking through the physician shortage in and models to take a look at I mean, I think it would make a lot of sense to have some sort of national license our getting deep into some policy stuff here, but wouldn't that make sense? Oh, I think it makes a lot of sense. So when I started practicing telemedicine for years ago, I had to get fifteen state licenses because I wanted to be able to serve patients all over the country. And the only way to do that was to get state licenses. Now, as you can imagine not only is that a cumbersome process. It's an expensive process, and it's a very tedious process to maintain because every state has different requirements for renewal of licenser. So they're all on different timelines. They all have different CME requirements, and so there's a lot of mess. Not just in the healthcare system from patients important. But there there's a hot mess from the physician standpoint. Like it's really just. Nessie from licensure credentialing and technology will hopefully help with a lot of that as we go forward. Yeah. Now, it makes a lot of sense in, you know, just thinking about it, even from the policy perspective, you know, any regulators or policy folks are listening, the silo nature of really the entire system. You gotta start taking a deeper dive into thinking differently to develop models to help folks, like Dr Nagorski that wanna make national impact make that impact with the proper infrastructure. We're gonna need to make some changes. So definitely predate your, your feedback, there cya. Tell me about an exciting project or focus, you're working today. So we have a really big exciting thing going on at simple health Lee have while I, we've rebranded from simple context, simple health. We have started expanding what we offer we not only offer vision exams now we are also offering online consultation. And when appropriate prescrip-. Actions for birth control renewal. We have started rolling, not out in several places across the country, and we continued to make moves to get into more states and be able to provide more services to more patients. So that's an ongoing process. We are really excited about it. We wanna be able to provide more simple solutions for healthy patients in one of our biggest advance in this year is expanding beyond will start it happened last year. Our base of answers last year was expanding from just vision exams do now offer a wider gamut of services for patients. That's awesome in key, focus, folks. Cya mention that they're working with healthy patients. So we, we take a look at the efforts being put forth here on the front of health care, not just sick care. And I think a lot of the burden will be shifted, if we do start seeing more innovations, like the ones Dr gory is up too. So let's keep our I. On these things as we move ahead thinking through different models to help us succeed this part of the podcast, Dr Nagorny, we've got it's a lightning round. So I've got a couple of questions for you. Followed by a book you recommend, to the listeners ready. Okay. All right. What's the best way to improve healthcare outcomes innovation? What is the biggest mistake or pitfall to avoid judging too early? How do you stay relevant despite constant change surrounding myself with awesome people? What is the one area focus drives? Everything in your organization, patient of these last two are a little bit more fun. What is your number one health habit? I wanna say working out, but I just injured myself haven't worked out and four weeks. Usually it's working out. So I'm going to say that with a cop stick with it, and what is your number one success habit being open to pivoting of that? What book would you recommend the listeners Civis book, actually has nothing to do with? Why has? Nothing to do with business or healthcare. But any of my friends were listening? We'll just laugh because I recommend this book to every single person I ever talked to, but it's actually it's called letting go and it's, it's more about human emotion and how to analyze emotion, and I, I loved it, because it really helps you recognize the person in front of you, which I think, is really important in all aspects of life. Like not just healthcare yet, to see the patient. See why they're reacting certain way. But in business understand what your colleague or business partner or possibly future business, partner, may maybe reacting a certain way, and I thought the book, which is very fascinating. I opening of inciting, actually very relevant frost, all fields. I feel like I should probably be this authors like agents maritime because I have sold so many books for him, an high open. So the author of this book, is David Hawkins, and I always recommend letting go to everybody. I think it's a fantastic book. It's, it's on audio. So it's very easy to pop it in listen to it, and I don't know. I, I think it's phenomenal. Got nothing to do with business efficiently or it doesn't it does. So I think it's a great great recommendation when taking a look at, at what we do here of folks for a link to this book, as well as an entire transcript of our discussion and the brief syllabus that we just went through go to outcomes rocket that health type in cya, Nagorski, or type in simple health in the search bar, you'll see this episode pop up you get access to all those resources. And again, just want to say, thanks, Sarah, if you can just leave us with the closing thought and then the best place with listeners, could stay in touch shero. Yeah. So my closing thought would be the healthcare. Revolution is upon us. We have so many things that we can be doing to help, not just patients, but the overall system and making a better. So I really encourage any physicians listening or any healthcare leaders listening to connect with each other to reach out, I myself would love to connect with more people. But if there's something that you've been thinking about doing I think there's no harm in drying. I think there's a lot of space for improvements. And so, I think I'm always trying something new, and it's keeping me excited. And in order to stay in touch anyone can feel free to reach out to me on Email. My Email is cya at simple contacts com. That's a why at simple contacts dot com, or if anyone's interested in the free innovation newsletter as well as information on the conference that we're hosting they can head to WWW dot medicine and tech. Dot com. That's the word medicine than a N. D tech dot com, so yeah, medicine dot com or feel free to reach out on Email, loved cya. Thanks again for that. And folks, take her up on on connecting she's up to some really great things. And if you look into forma mastermind or work with other people doing the things that you're doing amplifier work as what we do here in the outcomes rocket is we put you together. So again, just want to say, thanks, again, Dr gory predate your time in looking forward to stay in touch. Thanks for having me. Thanks for listening to the outcomes. Rocket podcast shoot. It is at us on the web at WWW dot outcomes. Rocket dot com for the show notes resources inspiration, and so much more.

Dr gory Dr cya Nagorski coma Michigan Nevada Nova health Drexel college of medicine Drexel Bella Villanova university New York City Roosevelt hospital system partner Dr Syon medical director Saint Luke Entra Pura
284: 30 Years of TidBITS, With Adam Engst

The Talk Show

1:54:06 hr | 9 months ago

284: 30 Years of TidBITS, With Adam Engst

"Adam angst welcome. This is the first time I can't believe that it's my fault. But welcome to the talk. Show I it's been way too long. I. I'm looking forward to it so speaking of two long. Yeah the motivating factor the hey. Let's make this happen event. That as God is here is that tidbits just celebrated its thirtieth anniversary. Yes which it's the word is inconceivable. It yes it does mean me so in some ways. I mean you know. And it's like my mom always said my mom I forget she has. I guess I shouldn't even say but she's not that old but you know But she said this forever like as she hit you know big milestones like fifty and sixty and stuff like that she's always had the mindset that Lou either hit these milestones or you don't and that means you're dead so only it's only goodness I mean either. Either tidbits eventually turned thirty or tidbits went away and obviously it's a fantastic. It is absolutely fantastic But it is but what makes tidbits different and unique is that by S- by having been started in nineteen ninety it literally predate. It's an it's an online only publication with thirty years of continuous publication under its belt that predates the web. He S that newfangled wet. I remember when that started. I mean I remember when we first got our. We got our first website in nineteen ninety six and it was actually hosted for us at Dartmouth by a guy named Andy Affleck who? I'm still friends with to this day. So how and you know. I bet there are a fair number of people listening. Who if not going back to the original issue one in nineteen ninety at least remember those early Nineties Pre Web Times? But I'm sure that most people listening don't just it's just the nature of it. So how how? Let's just start there. I mean honestly. Let's start with the early days. I mean how did how did you publish an online publication before the web? It's it's amazing to think about so Keep in mind the first ninety nine issues ninety nine weeks of tidbits were published in hypercard so it wasn't even text and we every week we imported what we wrote into hyper herds hypercard stack and then. I had to stuff it and been exit and then send it out on the Internet now. What is sending out on the Internet mean? We had the first couple of issues. We had a mailing list and that crashed. Navy VACs in San Diego. Just because get this I had put more than two hundred and fifty six one of those special computer numbers. More than two hundred and fifty six addresses in the two. Cornell's Cornell's mainframe operators where not tremendously impressed with me. So one of the things that are being computer user back then. Was that even. If you weren't a programmer type. You became very familiar with those magic computer. Numbers that it didn't. It didn't seem random at all that when you had two hundred and fifty five people it was fine and when you had two hundred fifty six broke you were like. Oh of course. They were putting those. They were counting them in a bite. There's there's a wonderful store. There's a as a fabulous book. I I should go back and look at it at some point called the soul of the new machine but Tracy kidder and it's about I think data general minicomputer and he tells a story like this. You know where where it fails in some way and it was like. Oh we'll just go change the number in the code and but yes you stuff like that happened so so yes so we were. We started we. We had to move off of the distribution distributing via email for a while. And but I I manage to make friends with people that I called the time the net heavies and they were just people at universities who they were more important than other people and it wasn't quite clear why usually I mean they were professors or computer administrators or whatever but they were the people who made things happen and if they said you could do something you could do something. And if they didn't want you to do it you didn't happen. And I use the term net heavies because they were elected or anything like that they just somehow ended up in that position and so working with some of them. I manage to get Be Able to upload tidbits to the Info Mac Digest Info Mac archives and then it was shared out in the infamous digest and an also the neurons. Firing my head right now. We're uploading to a bulletin boards and online services and things like that and it was all by hooker by crooks couldn't pay for any of this money home so it was like I had to you know but if you traded things if you said Oh I'm going to provide you with the content. You can often get free accounts or whatever and so. Yeah for those first couple of years. There was a whole lot of you know when friends doing friends favors the INFO MAC archive slash digest was for me. The the apple inner. Well not the apple at at that time. Yeah I guess it predates the Newton. Actually but the MAC was apple was the Mac Actually the apple two still had its last legs in some ways. I mean but I don't think it was ever part of the Mac Internet because you couldn't I couldn't because and I put that in quotes because I'm sure that there were some people because it was a time when people would figure out crazy stuff like how do you get an apple two gs onto the Internet. Even though there's no you know but CETERA and people and people did do that but it was. It was crazy and it was. It was a different subset. Those were different computers and the two worlds didn't mix much from what I remember. We could get to the Macintosh it. Internet starter kit but there was no apple to Internet starter kit. Hey it was amazing enough that we managed to get the Mac on the Internet. But the Info Mac archive was like never all sorts of newsgroups on usenet that I that I followed religiously and and stayed up to date but if you add if you could only have one thing it was yeah informat because if you had you got all you know if there was software being released as freeware and you download it from an FTP site and there was a new version. It was if it wasn't on INFO MAC as a as an it didn't exist. Yeah and you could either get post by post depending on you know and I think whether you wanted it post by post depended how you got it. You know like if you got it by email. You probably didn't want it post by post. It was too many emails but on using that it wasn't fine because then it was all in one group and you could just go through but the digest was like forget. Was it a daily digest? You know I. I'm trying to remember as you but what was interesting about. It was a little bit. How busy things where I think it was dial daily but keep in mind? It was also moderated right. It wasn't a free for all right and the I mean to be an info Mac moderator was a big deal and there were also in the arcus people who actually manage the file uploads and made sure. Everything was named reasonably an organized. Well and things like that. So yeah this was back at this. This is also back in the days of the user groups being huge forces Bima Bima had fifty thousand users so there were people who would dedicate themselves to these tasks because they saw it as this incredible opportunity to provide something for a really pretty large vibrant community who you saw and heard from many more users now but somehow it's much more amorphous. I remember my memory. It's remember eighty five percent there and fifteen percent not there. I don't remember the name of the Drexel User Group I think it was. Damn what was it? It was something everybody was ever. Everything was something. Mug Macintosh user group and without the Mug. You wouldn't even know. It was a Macintosh user. Group might have been just debugged or the drexel dragons it might have been. I forget but drexel had Macintosh user group and my freshman year in Nineteen ninety-one. I wandered in eventually and Drexel had a great drexel was of. This era was absolutely fantastic. Somebody who is a budding Mac nerd because drexel was part of this pilot program in the late eighties where they worked with Apple. Consortium Yeah Yeah. University consortium and they had a policy that every you didn't have to own a Macintosh college even in the early nineties was expensive enough but you had to have access to a Macintosh and there was simple enough. Because even if you didn't own one they had a lab full of them that had so many so plentiful with macintoshes. That you could sit down in front of that it was never even at the end of semesters you know when you would think it might be the hardest time to get time on one. There was always free fairly well and I think the reason why was that they had such an aggressive education pricing and they did kind of encourage freshmen. They they they delicately balance right. You don't have to buy one but you really ought to buy your kid one and so just about I. I my freshman year. I did not know anybody who didn't buy one other. So you're you're a little younger than I am because I graduated from Cornell in eighty nine and so tiny and I were in charge of public computer rooms at Cornell and we definitely had waiting lines and things like that I mean you you mean certainly you could buy them at the university you know what the discount. But it wasn't common enough. What so it sounds like just in that like you know couple of year periods when it when it translates to the big the big. You know anybody else who is at Drexel at that time is GonNa call me on. The big weight was for the laser. Now if oh yeah yeah and and in that absolutely court corresponded to the end of Semesters because of course that's when you you know you might have stuff do all throughout the semester but everybody has stuff due at the end of semester and anybody who had any two cents to Rub Together. You know like like the deal. I got as a freshman. I got Mac Kelsey and it came with a freestyle writer. Free it was just thrown in hand. It was a great education discount price. So why not take it? And this style writer wasn't bad so I had you know but it was kind of a waste because every single freshman also got one so we add like to style writers in every dorm room like could hear them now me but like it was slow and be you know. It's it's still was Janke early days. indoctrinate I wanted laser. I wasn't going to output. But anyway right right great lab in they had they had site licenses for all the. I don't even think it was branded clarice yet. But you know Mac right and Mac draw MAC paint everything like that. You could just all you need to floppy disk. Come in and then you can get them all totally legit straight up legal Site license for the whole university but there is already hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of thousands is a fair way of saying hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of shareware titles games and you till ladies and goofy stuff and when I wandered into the the Macintosh users group and found out that they had all of it. And all you had to do is bringing floppies. I was like I'll be back and you bought those boxes of like ten poppies at a time and it was just like. Wow I put so much stuff on. It was all of my money all my money when I was in college. All of it went too long distance. Phone calls because amy amy would in. Pittsburgh and I was in Philadelphia calling across the state of Pennsylvania was a ten dollars a minute. Long Distance Phone Calls Compact disks and floppy disks those all communication. Yeah just you know acing Kristen synchronous back rat in. Mi didn't want to overwrite floppies. There was some things that you could just over right like if you just wanted to print out a thing within you'd bring it back but it's like I don't want to get rid of this weird version of tetris. I I I need a new floppy disk so again being just a little bit earlier cornell you had a couple of flops because you could put the system and as we used right now for word processor that was our site. Licensed one great little word processor and you so your system and your application and your documents on a single floppy eight hundred eight floppy and so you'd have a couple of floppies carry around with you at all times because then you could stop in at a computer room and working at file print if you needed to that kind of stuff and I still have. I had had a pair floppies which are still called ziggy table here called ziggy stardust. So it's very much the time but your concept coming about the names of the Mac user groups reminded me there were some pretty good once and Ithaca's ethic as group was called Mug want which wasn't he'd an acronym for the Macintosh User Group for writers and users of Macintosh programs which is pretty good and then Seattle was debugged for downtown business user script. So we're a few that manage to break the trend. There's been a few others Rochester had apple CIDER. And I don't know what that why remember. I don't know how that expand that was a big one but yeah yeah as it was such a such a change from now you know. There's there's user groups hanging on and I love. I love them dearly. Go visit periodically at various ones. But it's a different scene because it's voluntary. It's purely social where back then it was. You could be totally. I don't WanNa antisocial but you can have no interest in any kind of camaraderie with others. But you'd want to be an active member because otherwise you wouldn't find out what the Hell is going on wall in companies like wordperfect and Microsoft would come to Cornell to speak to this group of thirty or forty people. I mean like the biggest companies in the world would show off to demo and I still remember that word. Perfect guy a little bags and EMINEM's during his demo to keep people awake because you wanted the ends you know. He was pretty good presenter too but nonetheless I so so very different years Info Mac. And those damn Mac archives moderated. It was essential so it was zero noise. I mean you might be you know might be an update to utility that you didn't care about but you didn't feel like. Oh that that shouldn't be there. I mean I don. I don't think there was ever want anything that got posted Info Mac that made it through the moderation that you felt like virus checking everything it was all good now and yeah. Yeah it was as I mean I'm still remain remembering there was a guy named Bill Lipa And Actually John. Pugh who I'm still in touch with. He was one of the monitors for a while. so yeah but have to go back and back into the depths of my email though. I honestly don't have a lot of e mail from the early nineties My my email archive start a little bit later than that. It's been so. How big were the hypercard issues? I mean 'cause it very yeah that was things they had to be smaller. Because you had to get stuff. Well actually I take that back. I don't remember how large the files were. I do remember that once. We switched to taxed because we had the structure enhanced text format that we came out with issue. One hundred that that. That was sort of where you took some of that stuff from when you're working on markdown get-tough very similar kind of stuff. We'll get to that but But once we went to text all the issues had to be under thirty. Hey because there were internet gateways that freaked out at of course thirty two K. But you couldn't ever guarantee there was really going to be thirty two see always when I was went to thirty. And so the the the thing that was interesting about the hypercard archives though her stacks was they could archive themselves into a single stack. So you get a new one. You download a new one each week and then you click a button it. I was so proud of this. Click a button in it and it would archive itself into the Stack. That you selected. You'd have this single Uber Archive of every tidbits issue. That was fully searchable. And all of that. It's a big switch going from hypercard to plain text and that's what the task. How do you pronounce? I was pronounced SEATAC. Seatac all right. It is see text and there is a remarkable and guard in my history that I guests out of pronouncing ones right in that case in this case it was specific because the the guy who came up with most of its kind of in Feldman who has disappeared entirely. I mean he disappeared quickly. I never heard from him. I don't know more than a year or so after that but he was very particular about things like pronunciation and he said it's Seatac someone going with that. The big difference is so I'm GonNa even if you don't remember hypercard. Yeah everybody kind of knows. It was a very early hyper tech. System graphical it was sort of a combination of an early predecessor to the web in terms of being hypertext and hyper connected and also a very early Sort of easy to use programming environment. Yes and a writer sat was that was the term and with a programming language. That really only could be compared to apple. Script Hyper Hyper. Talk was very inc. It was at a time when everybody not everybody. Maybe but a lot of people thought that was the key to making programming. More accessible to more people was to make it the syntax look like English Syntax But people were incredibly productive in it. There were people who were non programmers who broke amazing. Things hypercard that honestly. I don't WanNa make this whole episode about a hypercard but to this day. I don't think there's a a a replacement that is as neat and as accessible to more people hypercard it was also very very Macintosh. -I terms of the fear of Macintosh only the whole platform was only six years old in nineteen ninety. You know it was still relatively. New was way newer than even talk about the age. Then of Apple. Watch now apple. Watch just turned five. You know so. Think about how new apple is now. That's how new the man highs and hypercard was also developed by Bill Atkinson who who was like one of the key Macintosh developers so like this was his vision of what the Mac could be. And you know I have to say we compare it to apple script hyper talked apple script. There's no comparison talk was way easier way more understandable for people who didn't have a programming background and the things that people made with it were astonish. Yeah really was and nothing has ever ever come to that ever that level ever again and there's great stuff like Super Card and live code now and whatnot. That are kind of similar. But they've never quite gotten to that level of elegant simplicity. I'll just just to name one example. I remember I had a calculus teacher at Drexel. Who I'm he's very smart guy he was. He was like one of the heads of the Department of Mathematics at Drexel so I mean he was obviously not a dummy but he was a mathematician not a programmer or computer scientists. He had for his Like freshman level calculus courses hypercard. Stacks that he himself had written and they were extremely graphical and I remember I a I really was. I was pretty good at math going into college but like really ran up against even my freshman year so it was the calculus itself was like man. I gotta get out of this I gotta I gotTa take as little as possible but the Mac Nuruddin. Me was blown away by. I was like guys not even a programmer. You know it's like this is amazing graphical and they did. They were animated. You know the you know aspects of Calculus curves approach limit. It was like the approaching. The limit was animated. This guy's not a programmer. He didn't like have a Grad student from the Computer Science Department. Build these form. He just did this on his own. In the way that college professors spend time on course materials. He built software. That was incredibly cool and it really was useful. It was not like a gimmick like oh the guy was also a hobbyist on the Mac and wasted time on this. It really did help. Illustrate the material was good. It was good stuff and I don't know how he would do it without hypercard. There was no way he was going to do it. He wasn't GonNa drop into Pascal or C right real applications to do it. Required a level of expertise that you couldn't expect from a math professor and afterwards after hypercard faded away. Nothing really took that spot but then so my point though is that going from zero ninety nine tidbits as hypercard stack was extremely Macintosh. The fact that you could get a new issue and have it within your instance of hypercard on your Mac collapse into the same stack and you collect the issues. There a super Macintosh. She like idea like right. Like like part of what it meant to be Macintosh Mac like back then was elegance elegance in computing. You know and and not to go any one of these could be a two hour rant on her own but the fact that Mac files you just did in hindsight is another one of those numbers you had thirty one characters so you were up to thirty two. You know thirty. Two's one of those magic numbers but you could use any characters you wanted. You know you could put spaces in your file names. Nobody USED FILE NAME EXTENSIONS. Except for files you'd share over the Internet like stuff at archive and then only if it was because you were leaving the Macintosh universe and putting it in putting it somewhere where you know. It needed that. It going to plain text with C. Taxed was sort of a. I get why you did it. I think it was probably the right way because it was more. Plain text is universal. Format still is to this day in two thousand twenty But it was sort of A concession to the practicality of plain text versus the magical elegance of something like hypercard yeah indeed and I think what I ran into an I honestly. Don't remember the thinking behind the switch all that well. I mean this was nineteen ninety two but I think well I had made one mistake in the hypercard stack which caused it to grow to lar- larger than a needed to on each import and there was no way to fix to back. Patch that for various reasons and so that was one thing that was bothering me about the stack but I think what it came down to was it felt like I could just reach so many more people because there were a lot of Mac users whose Max couldn't connect to the Internet in any way shape or form that they they could read email at work or they could tell nut in into reviews elmer pine or whatever but there was just no way they could get a hypercard stack from that point onto their Mac. Yeah that because we didn't really is nineteen ninety-one nineteen ninety two and it's not easy to get on the Internet in any way shape or form and so you know that's why again we we distributed to Apple Inc and bits and compuserve and Delphi and genie and I get them enough better quarter so basically every imaginable online service because many ways an easier way to get files than the Internet and it. There is something and it's to this day as we speak. There's like this really nice resurgence in newsletter email newsletters. Yeah and what makes them resurgent? Today is what? Made Them Nice in Nineteen Ninety two. Also where even if you could get the been hack stuff at file of the stack to your Mac fairly easily. Nothing be there. It is in your email tidbits issue one and ten and you click it and there you are and you're reading and now you're just space bar space bar space bar space bar and you go down. It's right there right the fact that yeah right there here it is and truth be told part of you. The essence of tidbits from the get-go has been the writing it yes. We had no graphics for many many years. I was trying to think about that like I. Don't remember when we first started putting graphics and we started linking to them before we could put them in. Of course I mean we'd have like a literally you L. so you could click to go see the graphic. I sympathize. So yeah but you can't beat that convenience or maybe you read in the US net and the US net. Experience was very much like. If if you're going in through a you know Talcott. Purposefully very similar to using Elmer Pine. Or whatever your email client was there is only you know arrows to go up and down to select groups or mailboxes. You go in. There's a message and then you read the message and there it is and if tidbits could be right there there you are. You're reading it bar part. Go down the thirty two K. thing though also fascinating we so didn't have the was a switch away from the Macintosh -ness of hypercard but we didn't lose all of that and that was thanks to an application called easy view. Oh you were written by a guy named Keith. Eyler who was Turkish. And and he's still around. I heard from him just a few months ago and he I forget how we met But you know I think he was starting in on this a text file viewer and I said Hey. Would you like to support tax? And he's like. Oh that's so cool. Can you give me the SPEC? And so we share and and he did and so it was great because you could get right back to that elegance of like everything in your easy view archive fry and but he also built in support for other formats too so you could have other documents. That would you know like index Info Amac archives in fact because those were inbox formats. And so but that gave us all of that kind of ability and archiving nece. Give my mother was Cornell University archivist for many years. So archives are in my blood and but at the same time as you say the ease of its email you just look at it and you can read right then and there it. Yeah I do remember easy view and I remember using it. I think what I used to do as the sort of borderline obsessive compulsive pack rat was I would. I would read a new issue of bids however I I saw it. You know whether it was email or use net and I would like look both places so I could read it right away but then eventually I would download it. So that I'd keep every issue archived in easy view One of the things that I remember from those days also be curious can have to go back and look see how long I kept this up but keep in mind. We had the the magazines. Were big deal. Macworld MAC USER MEC week and they had reviews but there was no index and so every issue of tidbits I would actually have a quote unquote article. That was a list of the products that were reviewed in the magazines that I'd received so if you wanted to know wh where there was a review of Microsoft word six or five or five point one whatever version. It was at that point. If you searched in your archive you would actually find out that you know Mac. User of January of Nineteen had that review in it as well and you could actually probably go to a library or maybe you got it on your shelf. You had on your shelf. You could never find it in there so that was another kind of thing we did to bridge the the digital analog gap. I've told this story before but I. I wanted a subscription to Mac week so bad but the idea was and and like. If you're young enough this is gonNA seem crazy but there were two types of. Perriott print periodical of the time. The monthly magazines were just regular magazines. And the big two big ones here in the. Us from macworld. Mac User And you know you could either subscribe like you subscribe to any magazine today or get him on the newsstand and that was that and you just bought them Mac. Week was a trade publication and trade publications were not sold on newsstands and and you couldn't no matter what you couldn't say. Well here's take my money. Here's my credit card. Send me a subscription you you you had you had to like apply and give them your credentials for how you're in the trade and so if you were do you remember the size of those applications for them because they were tabloids and it was a full page of really tiny little boxes you had to fill them all in and you would ally through your teeth course. I remember to my utmost shame. I remember because I applied several times and I even thought maybe they're keeping track on my name. I tried like under a fake name and I never never heard back. Never heard back from from them. Oh really so for years I had to read. You didn't lie. Well I had to remind you didn't lie. I guess but I I like to think of myself as a talented liar so i. that's why I'm ashamed of it. I made up job titles. I said that I worked. I'd like looked up real businesses but like the problem was the problem always was that like I could. I could figure out a way that would make it look like my. I had a job or worked at a company or whatever but like how do you fake a mailing address like I still need it. Mailed to me like. It's pretty obvious. Why the ones? I had sent. The dorms drexel didn't work getting sent to my parents. Home was no good because I didn't go home often enough. You know what I mean. What good would it have? And I don't know that that would have worked anyway. But what good is it? Getting twenty issues of Mac. Week at Thanksgiving you know like right right so that was always an apartments were never I think it was always the mailing address that gave gave me away interesting so that was the only reason rexel library ever. I don't remember ever going for classwork week subscription and so once a week I would go into the library at Drexel and re read Mac Week. I don't remember Issue with the addresses but it may have worked out for me But you know worked at Cornell student and the CIT computering Information Technology Cornell's Mr Technology. And so yeah you would lie on the application form like pretending you were cornell right. 'cause I was in charge of hundreds of Mac. If you count all the public rooms that I was in charge off and and so we got Mac week and Info world in pc week because you know those and they were. They were were like you know they could be forty or fifty pages a week and and they were fabulous because this is also the time when you wanted to read the AD. Yeah yeah the ADS. Were partly why you got it so and I did I did. I didn't remember when I finally you know a couple of years later when I started meeting people who actually worked at Mac Week and hearing their stories and what they said was is that they basically just worked harder than all of the the PC publication and that was because they they had no resources and et Cetera et Cetera. But they all loved what they were doing. And just you know did more and that was that was that Mac. Week was always a step above info world and pc week they were really corporate and and so we did have to appeal to what they called the volume buyers. All the people they were. We're giving it to so they could get ads but remained fascinated by the fact that huge publications there was. There was a massive advertising market despite the fact that there was far less money in the ecosystem right and I have never figured out. How has has you know? We've got so much more money in the ecosystem and advertising is so much less of a part of it now. I don't know either I I can only guess that part of it. And whenever there's you know every periodically somebody will stumble upon their stash of old Mac weeks or Mac users or any publications in our closet or their basement and scan few ads and the one thing that jumps out to. You is how much more expensive everything was. You know somebody like thing where they were just linking to all of the various C compilers for. Pc's in like the late eighties and you know number one. Nobody pays for C compilers anymore at all. It's it seems crazy But back then it was a huge thing and and they were all you know hundreds of dollars. Yeah well and you bought one APP. That was you researched. This is going to be the word processor that I use. And you paid your couple of hundred bucks and and because in part you'd put in the research and you've paid the money you were loyal right. That was that was your tool and and you got good at whatever your tool was so you know I mean those of us who were in the industry and got review copies were really unusual because we had used multiple different things in could compare them. That's why the comparison articles were soap-opera. Because you really wanted to know which one were you gonNa pick once you paid your money. It was not a good thing to have to. To switch off right was they. Were comparison articles were were essential to the both of magazines and the weeklies. And they're they're still useful even today because a good comparison article just takes time to do but at that time it was it was like almost nobody would have the access to do. How do you revive three different? Five hundred dollar word processors or whatever they cost you had to be associated with MAC wilder macuser. And and it was interesting for me. Actually I remember the first APP or product that I was ever given for review was now utilities two point. Oh Oh man. What a great. What Ray and fabulous fabulous APP fabulous collection of APPs? Obviously wonderful utilities and. I reviewed the hell out of that thing. I wrote so much because I couldn't believe they'd given me this free software that you saved your money to buy stuff. Like quick key is in suitcase. You really agonized over the fact that you could spend fifty dollars on the APP and you know when you got it you were just like. Oh there's the best thing ever and and so yeah so and it was always terrible when you had the best thing ever and then someone came out with a new one and you had to decide whether or not you could justify switching to this new APP. That was the same as yours but better because it was newer in these ways. Yeah the compression wars. That was the other big thing that was going on back. Then let's let's pick it up the worst. 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The talk show. The Promo Code is talk. Show Twenty and get twenty dollars credit twenty dollars for twenty credit twenty dollars in credit or if you prefer twenty dollars or twenty for twenty twenty doesn't matter just remember twenty talk show twenty. You'll save twenty bucks. That's four months under Nanos plan and last but not least they're hiring lynn dot com slash careers. Go there. Check it out. If you're looking for Work Leno DOT com slash careers. They are hiring. Great Company go check them out. The storage were are the compression wars compact pro verses stuff it and then Blur and and Oh gosh there was. There was a company Eleusis They had slightly dodgy compression. So you'd care touching every freaking file on your hard so this is my story on this. I was person and I had I told you. I had a MAC. Elsie came with a forty megabyte. Hard disk and I had no money to buy an external hard drive which were exorbitantly expensive at the time so I told you earlier. I spent a lot of money on floppies so anything. I really wanted backed up. Wouldn't be backed up to flood. But if you have a forty megabyte drug hard drive and your floppies are one point. Four in the nineties. We're up to the double density floppy so they were all one point. Four megabytes. Remember how you could buy a single density one and and use a hole punch. Yes yes you. Click the other side of the house. I mean I I don't know They're never had one. Go Bad. But it does seem really loosing loosey-goosey with your data integrity that you just took took a floppy that was certified as eight hundred. Kilobytes used a punch to punch a hole through the plastic. Because that's how the disk drive mechanisms. They just shown a light through. Does the light go through yes okay high density and it worked but anybody can assume as it was one of those things it wasn't worth making the Dr- The quality worse you don't like you you up your manufacturing manufacturing line. Why would you make it worse all right so I never troubles either so I I'm GonNa crack up so many times telling this story and people who are young enough not to remember? This are going to think it's not true but disk utility commercial utility sold for a reasonable amount of money because it was it was consumer not not you know not sold just two businesses. It was advertised. The heck out of in Mac user mack Mac world you know. I don't know fifty bucks. Maybe let's say fifty bucks you'd buy a copy of disc double and then when you installed it it. Would it would install a system extension on your Mac and then it would automatically compress your entire disk and promised roughly two double. That's the name discovered so percent you compression. It would double if you're in a forty megabyte disk you defective. We have an eighty megabyte disk and and this is the part number one already. Sounds a little too good to be true and number two? They said it hardly hardly noticeable performance. Wise like they you know and you can't say it's not noticeable but they had numbers in their ads and they'd say it's only like five percent or something like that so for like five to ten percent off on disk performance. You could double the space of your drive so it sounds way too good to be true but I remember reading reviews and reviewers trusted magazine. Said it works it? Actually everything they say is actually true and I was like Because I could really use this because I every every week I keep putting stuff from my drive on two floppies and I was running that forty. Megabyte drive at about thirty seven megabytes all the time. And then you know you get closer to forty. And then you find some empty floppy disks. Move some stuff off onto floppies so you can keep going. That sounds good but the thing is. Here's the really scary part. You didn't stall it if you didn't have and I didn't like a forty megabyte drive to copy your current drive onto just in case it was it was you're on the trapeze with no net. Right like if I tried this and it just corrupted my drive in the way that I kind of thought there must be a very high chance that it would i. I just lost everything. That wasn't already on a floppy disk. And if I had to restore it would be like you know one megabyte from this disc one megabyte from that disc but anyway long story short. It frigging worked. That's after it was just amazing. I mean the the the the thrill of seeing it work because it was truly magic to have your drive suddenly have twice as much space and I can't remember the amount of a performance hits as you say but I do remember that was you only saw it when you opened and closed right because it had to expand into memory and then recompose in but that's not a time when you're really all that stress right working at full speed it was just opening and closing was a little slower and this guy and even on a hard disk was so slow at the time. The you know the layman's explanation. For How could it possibly be true? Is that the. Yeah the the compression algorithm that ran on your CPU as it read. The bites of your drive was fast enough and efficient enough and the drive was so slow even if you were pressing everything that it. It could be made to work. It was and that's the secret. Is that even? If you weren't using this double reading a file off your hard drive in credibly slow you just knew. Oh wait for this. Here's the watch cursor and wait for stuff but also things were just smaller too. Yeah so I mean I. I've been doing a lot of testing recently due to a failed S. in Mac and kind of dealing with this performance issues and I was like boy. I just don't remember Max being slow in the past. But that's partly because we moved so much less data around And and they could be pretty quick. You know for how what the user saw even if the actual like throughput. I mean was just insanely bad. Yeah well at that time like you know by the early nineties they everybody you know you had like twenty or forty megabyte hard disk in your Mac when you got a new one but they were still. The ecosystem was still there from the era before hard drives and so the assumption was that you might just be running your app off a floppy disk and so the APP and all of its documents needed to be on a floppy disk. Which in practice was. I've always thought it harkened back our harks back big now to the way. Ios works where you you don't really have files in a file system and when you delete the APP you delete it data and it's all just like the idea that like your word processor and all of your word processing documents were on one. Floppy disk was yes you know. Sort of conceptually similar. No you had it word processing this. Yeah that's absolutely true. And yes you had your spreadsheet disc and you had a database disk and you didn't mix them because you only have one district most of the time so yeah no that I think that is conceptually conceptually fair but I have to say the one. That was even more magical than disc. Tumbler and I remember. When this came out at macworld and covering it and Ted Bets was connected says Ram Dabbler the first virtual memory system and again. It was the same thing right. They were just compressing. Ram and moving some stuff off to disk and all the little virtual memory tricks. That are kind of standard. Now we need to think about but that was that was back when memory was so mind. Bogglingly expensive you know hundreds of dollars per megabyte right however expensive. I was thinking in just complaining. That hard drives were. Ram was way more ram was like you know it was like getting the uranium and back to the future it was like forget about it you had to like know somebody Doubling your Ram through virtual memory but the crazy part of that is you think like well virtual memory. We're all used to it. You know so Sure I can believe it. The crazy part compared to today was that it came from a third party. It wasn't like yes. Apple has enabled this feature called redouble. Our turn it on W. Ram. It was a utility you bought from accompany that modified Mac Os to have virtual memory and it was an operating system that didn't have virtual of every. That's that's yes today and my understanding I was not a computer person Computer Science Person. So my understanding though is that the concept virtual memory was pretty well known at that point in time in the UNIX world. You know this was not a a an astonishing revelation that connects came up with it was more. That apple didn't do it and so connects did and that's just fascinated. You know you can't that doesn't happen anymore. No one can get into the operating system to that level right and and I think that it's it comes down to the fact that just by nature of the machines everything even the MAC which was conceptually in terms of when you turned it on presented itself. In a way that abstracted the computer. You know like it. It was a big deal. That the nineteen eighty-four Mac when you turn it on. What was the first thing you saw when the screen went on? You saw smiling Mac logo. You didn't see some kind of fixed width mono spaced font telling you you know. Initialising dot dot dot and then a couple of things stream by and then the graphics kick in it. It was completely encapsulated in you. Know a graphical interface But still it. The truth is it ran very load of the metal by today's standards and and they're just. I it just wasn't that much there so a very clever talented team of third party developers from outside the company could just sort of dissect it figure out how the whole thing worked and figure out. Well if we just patch right here can control the system's memory now. Did you ever go to Mac? No I never want. I never went to Max so I knew about Macaque for many years. I I'd write about it and tidbits because there was always the contest Mac hacks contest which was different spell different slightly differently. There were issues with that and then at one year. Someone said you know like. Oh are you gonNA Macaque? I'll no I'm not a programmer and I was like. Oh really I thought you were there last year like okay. If people are assuming that I should be going I was there and they just missed me so I went and had more fun than could possibly be imagined but what was most amazing about. It was the level of creativity that came out of the best programmers in the Macintosh world. Sitting in a hotel lobby for seventy two hours drinking jolt coal so for people who programming nonstop people who don't remember just give the high level overview so Mac it was a programmers conference and so only for developers and it dates way back. I don't actually quite remember when the first ones were probably in the eighties late. If not if not before and it happened in Dearborn Michigan in a in a Holiday Inn I think holiday and will but the point was that there was nothing else to do right. You went to this holiday and it had a great lobby and then everyone would sit around the entire time in this big lobby and a tables with lots of power Brixton everything and and chatting and discussing about the best ways to do things and hack this and you know what you could do to get into the system this way and that and everyone was developing the hacks which were just to demonstrate interesting facts or techniques or something that this program are new and they weren't meant to be useful and in fact when you Demo Day if it was useful the audience would derisively yell useful at you if you talked it up too much than they would yell. Marketing Marketing was a dirty word And and this but it was it was just completely developer centric and of its era. I mean the keynote on the first day started at midnight and people literally didn't sleep the entire time so the idea the idea was everybody would fly into Michigan and during the day. Then you'd go there dump your stuff. I don't even know people even get rooms. I guess it was. Everyone stayed in the hotel right but never left the hotel by the time. You'd like unpack and then the conference just started that night there. You go yup conference started. And you would you program straight for seventy two hours. And then it culminated with the presentation of the hacks and Scott Boyd. And some of the other blue meanings from apple or The people around the MAC macaques contest and they would come up with these wonderful prizes and the best one was a victor h. Trap mouse trap because a traps were something in programming. I can't even remember if I knew then it was. If you won the victor a trap that was a badge of honor and and showed that you you were you know like the best of the best but the things that came out of here out of that you know We had in the energizer. Bunny you where. Someone actually programmed something to jump. It was a little the energizer. Bunny beatings drum. Walking from McIntosh to Macintosh. That's where the grouch came from. When you threw something away in the trash the grouch came a Mac heck. I didn't know that I've talked about the extension. Many probably pretty sure it was Eric Shapiro. Yeah and let's see then. Oh John Gato who still does default Fullerton? Still around still still great stuff. He broke his his his powerbook screen on the way to the conference one year but didn't completely break so it was like just. The upper triangle out of the upper corner broke and he somehow rewrote the video driver to map out those pixels so it was fully functional screen with just like a chunk taken out of it. But you didn't miss anything behind their didn't know those pixels existed anymore and someone someone figured out how to do a fire wire virus all you have to do is plug into fire wire and and you will be infected Stuart Cheshire did the first Wi fi scanner so he actually he pulls up his his APP in the demonstration. You on the program. Everyone's got WIFI this point. This is the later he pulls it up pulls it up and it starts showing onscreen all the images from the web pages people in the audience voting because it was unprotected weap- at the time so as it just amazing it really was proof of concept of. We think this is a problem. I've got seventy two hours to explore. And I've got people who know more about this including the developers of the operating a lot of the Times a lot of apple people when Stuart Cheshire among other things invented boneyard networking which we still. We don't talk about it anymore. But it's still it's just they're just works. So right you had access to the smartest people in the community and so you have an idea and he was like you know you go over and talk to this person or that person if you got stuck cry and everyone just helped everyone else in you know and and so and you know half the stuff barely worked you just had to get it. Working enough to demo. It was never meant to be a product. Almost nothing ever shipped out of Mac. That wasn't the point. The point was just to this. Is Your time to to experiment into explorer and you know as as a as a as a writer it was it was the ultimate time. Because you could talk to everybody you could just sit and hang out in these conversations and learn more about what was going on in the Macintosh world than any other way is incredible. I I always wanted to go. It was always sort of out of my budget Slash too young and just never got around. But I remember when you start going and I remember you sort of you know. Tell putting it the same way. You just did here where it was like. You always thought it was for programmers. And they're like no. You should come and then you started writing about it and it. It suddenly became an wasn't like it was a secret thing. It wasn't did nobody. It wasn't that it hadn't been documented because it wasn't it was secret. It's just that there wasn't a writer who went and you know you weren't going to patch any traps so you wrote about and I'm just remember loving that. I just remember appreciating like I'd heard of Mak kind of new digestive it but then once you started writing about it it was like you know all of a sudden you are there like any you know. Good Journal yeah. Yeah and it was. It was so wonderful also to really meet the people because we had email back then but it really was email and private mailing lists and things like that and you didn't have the immediacy of social media twitter facebook of even chat People did IRC a little bit. But not so much and that was the good stuff happened. And so you'd know these people but you really didn't get a chance to meet them a lot of the time until you went to something like Mac or macworld. I mean that's kind of where I met. You know who I've become friends with subsequently and you know you just you could actually spend real time with them. You know. It wasn't even macworld is great but mackerel was more like meet and greet Mac hack. It was sit down and talk for an hour. All right let me take a break. Here are second sponsor. Our good friends at feels F. A. L. S. A. D. Experience stress. You have anxiety. Chronic pain trouble sleeping even just once a week while you're not alone many of us do and quite frankly many of a lot more of it lately feels is premium. Cbd delivered directly to your doorstep feels naturally helps reduce stress anxiety pain sleeplessness. All you do you take few drops. Put it under your tongue and you can feel the difference within minutes are you new to. Cbd feels offers a free CD hotline and text message support. If you don't feel like calling which is what I would To help guide your personal experience. Figure out what you should order how to get started. It works naturally to help you feel better. There is no high no hangover. No Addiction. 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The only other thing I could really think of as an inspiration before daring fireball would be matt death urges. Md J. J. j. As online publications. That weren't like and I'm not putting down the idea of blogging. Certainly there were hundreds hundreds of good good blogs before daring fireball started in two thousand and two But there weren't any that like this is what somebody wants to. You know. This is a this is meant to stand toe to toe with any publication in terms of its editorial merit integrity. Usefulness any good adjectives you can throw at it and the thing about tidbits that was just like a thunder bolt to me as a college student in the early nineties was. This is one hundred percent serious like it wasn't pretentious. It was always you know you know the the writing style. The editorial voice is consistent through today it was from the user's perspective right. It was very much always. You know we're all in this together. We're like you just writing this. But it never felt like. Oh tidbits is just you know Adam and Tanya angst trying to get jobs at macworld you know. And then they'll then they'll go to macworld and tidbits will go away yeah. It's an interesting realization. I I sometimes consider this in terms of you know like tiny and I are very much gen-x and we're kind of bottom of the population curve and we got out of college at a time when the economy wasn't doing so well and I think there's a little bit of I don't inferiority complex isn't quite the right term but we felt we needed to seem profession. We knew we were faking it. I mean you know. I started tidbits when I was. What twenty three so. I was faking it like crazy. But it was definitely one of those things where you tried as hard as you could to emulate the big boys you know the macworld. Mac weeks whatnot and it turned out you could do that. That was merely work. You could learn how to write well and you know and do those things I don't I don't have A. I don't have a degree in journalism. I didn't I didn't have any training in this degrees. In hyper textual fiction and classics for Goodness Sake. So it was a learning curve. I think but one where we knew what we were going for. But it was yeah. It was clearly aimed to be at the standards of like voice but it boy in no way emulated the format you know. It wasn't monthly out. It was weekly and it was you know and then there was Mac week which was weekly but was very much in and of the trade industry and and tidbits was very much. Not You know it was clearly meant it was a gala -tarian and meant for everybody. I mean I I joke about how hard it was to read Mac week but it really was and whereas you guys you just said like part of the reason you switched from hypertext to plain text see. Texts was to make it as easy as possible literally like you went. You did everything you possibly could to make it easy as possible for anybody who might want to get it and read it and who might want it but has never heard of it to discover it. And that was the same reason why we upload it to all the commercial services and encouraged people to spread it further you know in terms of bulletin boards or whatever you know two business always been free and has always. We've really wanted people to read. That's what it's about and so you know not about trying to to to to narrow it down or have a paywall or make portions of available inning like that and and I really liked that that aspect of it the the one thing that I do remember current criticized for this was actually more with the Internet starter kit the tip specifically but we wrote from the first person and we've wrote active voice and that was actually pretty unusual at the time that tech writing was was was often third person passive voice back then but of course it's horrible to read and not having a journalism degree or not having any any background in this space. Wrote what I knew what I knew was in my voice so I think that that I think people identified with that that you could easily put yourself into that. I yeah and it came in. And that's what always made it so compelling to me and again there's a place for the other styles and of course you know macworld was always a little bit more buttoned up and Mac a little bit more button down and I think that you know as somebody who is a voracious reader of both. I feel like the people I know who were involved in them. I saw a little bit more closely than those of us on the outside. Even though I'm very I was very close reader of both but the people who are in the game at the time really saw that the saw themselves as more serious like the New Yorker of the monthly Mac magazines and Mac user was a little more people magazine and eventually then we got Mac. Attic took it even further right right now into the Gonzo journalism so to speak right and you know and I think as the years went on at blurred because people jumped ship and I know I think I at least I think I know that chasing started at Mac user and then wound up running Mac world and Mac user went away and it blurred but at the time like I can't think of anything that better exemplified it than the fact that INDIANAP- goes column was in Mac user and and it was You know anti style. Just Andy couldn't have been Indian. Macworld it. Just wouldn't you know well and in fact the remember. Nineteen ninety-two was I. I was asked to write for one of the magazines and Ghana column had a column. It's actually only very short-lived unfortunately not doing my fault fault of mine. I was told but It was called beating the system. It was all about ways to hack the system and with utilities and whatnot stuff that would go under the hood and user and they For whatever reason they've sort of reorganized book and cancelled that columnist part of it but I was mostly happy because I got t shirts as having written two or three of them before they threw. It was only a few months and I got the t shirt I love that I still have it somewhere but again you know that was. That was what you did back then day. You got the t shirt and you were good. I've told this I've told this story before I should. I should have andy on the show and do his show with Andy. But I'll tell it here too but the first time my name ever appeared in a in a Macintosh magazine was was Andy. Andy was CO CO bylined column with Bob Vitus It was like the Magnum column. And they would answer your questions you dance. You know you'd you'd right in like Hey. I'm running out of space on my hard disk. What do I do and they end? And it was always very you know. I don't know how the heck at work because the lead time on magazines was like four or five months back then and so like even if like you wrote your letter and it got to them and they read right away and thought this is a great question and they answered it right away for their next upcoming column. It was still going to like. The answer was gonNA show up like months later like if it happened as fast as possible. And you know and Bob and Andy were good together but he you know. Andy's style appealed to me more. I mean because he was just so just odd. You know just crazy and so I wrote a letter. I wrote a letter and it had nothing to do with with a Macintosh. I just wrote who would win in a fight the Millennium Falcon or the starship enterprise John Gruber Philadelphia and my honest expectation. Was that maybe Andy would see. I didn't know him You know I was just a fan. The maybe he'll see it and it'll crack a smile. I hope AH cracks a smile. I might have even had like A. Ps I love your show. I love your column and then like five months later I'm like reading accuser and there it is. I had no idea. They never called to confirm or anything like that. I'd actually forgotten that I send it in. I think I actually sent like paper letter to do it. I'm just looking through Mac user and there's my question in Andy went into D- I actually don't remember the answer so anybody out there who who has a stash aboard macura. Take a look if you can find it. I give you. I don't know what I'll be a give you some when he took it seriously. And it's just in the middle of like you know recommending now utilities to solve this and telling you how to set up style sheets and a page maker to to get around that and you know all of these actual answers to actual questions in in the middle of the column. Was Andy going off about a star wars spaceship versus Star Trek spaceship. And who would win and I wish he must have just enjoyed so much. I know it was knowing and it was crazy. Man I gotta say like the dope even though it was just and it might. My question was like eight eight words long but seeing my name in Mac user was such a dopamine hit I was like Ooh so one of the things that was so striking. You say you like Cornell. You majored in classics. So one of the my favorite bylines in tidbits was Matt Burke Oh who was my professor right of the classic he was actually my Gr- Greek professor. I mean literally Greek ancient Greek degrees. Now we're talking you know Plato and Socrates and and archimedes and old school But also you know perhaps better known if you don't remember don't know his byline from tidbits but you might as a listener of this show. Remember that he's written a fantastic. He's one of the greatest pro. Eat on my favorite programming books ever written are mats. He wrote the apple script definitive guide. Which if you want to do anything even to this day if you want to do anything an apple script if you don't if you don't own that book I don't know how you do it. Because apple script is such a bizarro weird language with edges that can be bitten and Matt somehow figured it all out all sorts of other books over the years but well in fact it's actually it plays R- into his strengths because he really. He is a classes right. So Greek Latin other languages well and to give you an idea when I took a class with him. The class I took was recomposition and so we were translating English. Twenty five sentences of English into Greek every week but this was a class for two people the me and another guy and Matt wrote a textbook for us because he wasn't happy with all of the other ones out there so you can see where he goes and he moves it other languages like apple script and now he's Iowa's programming books I mean and swift and so it's actually in some ways a really understandable path but you wouldn't have expected at the time and and he would have you know well that was also one of the things I mean just tidbits was a magnet for really good writers. I mean that's where I got introduced to Glenn Fleishman and just there's a tidbits style and the writers who were drawn to it were drawn to that sort of mindset but their individual voices always shown through and and one of the things that we tried to do. That again may not be obvious in today's world is that magazines had hard word limits. Yes you were. If you had a six hundred word article you wrote six hundred words or if you wrote more they just cut them because they didn't have any more space physical space limitations and so one of the things that was interesting tidbits as we did you know or for a while. Have that thirty limit but we could just put out another issue we needed to. I mean we wasn't we weren't constrain in any real way and so one thing that I always told people it was. Is you write what you need to write to explain. The Tha the subject and I don't care how long it is. Nowadays I try to. I try to rein people in a little bit because sometimes I feel like people can just keep going on and on and on but But the overall the concept of being able to write to the comfortable length or the length of the subject needed was actually really unusual. And and so. Yeah there were people like Matt and Glenn and lex Friedman wrote for us for a while in for a while mean we obviously been friends with Jason Forever and it tune extent. Tibbets was seen as a farm team You know that someone would write for us. And then I'd get email from Jason saying you know Hayes so-and-so's pitched an article or I'm looking for someone you know someone and I was like well here. You Go tidbits. CaN'T PAY THEM. But you can so please do At the time we just had we had no money so we couldn't pay people but you know heaven was happy to write for free and sometimes it turned into serious careers for these people definitely You know and some of them are still you know as much in the game as as ever you know. Yeah Yeah I mean you know Glenn obviously going strong and you know and obviously we were at some point we managed to get our finances changed around so that we could pay people because of course you want to be able to do that And I don't think it changed that much. It was more that we had the same people writing but now we could pay them as opposed to me feeling badly that we weren't now one of the things that a lot of. Oh I you know Matt. We just said has a bunch of great programming books under his belt. You wrote the Internet Starter Kit which was a sensation in the nineties. I mean I I we really have to talk about it. I mean no. It's thirty bits thirty. It's thirty years of tidbits but the Internet starter kit. It's hard to fathom how important book could be but and it was more than a book because it came with a CD so it would have you know. I was just because you didn't have and didn't if we weren't even up to CDs so but that floppy disk was actually the key to the whole thing in the reason for that was that we nineteen ninety-three when this book comes out there was a small amount of graphical Internet software. And so for this. You know Internet getting on the Internet was command. Line thing you do it. The terminal of some sort and that was about the only thing you could download stuff that we had file transfer programs and whatnot not much more than that. And the graphical stuff required. Tcp STACK TRANSMISSION CONTROL PROTOCOL. One of the core protocols of the Internet and it came from Apple. Only apple could make it but it cost sixty dollars and you couldn't go to an apple store to buy it because there were no apple stores so an apple didn't make it available via Matt Connection and Mack Warehouse and all of the mail order stars. It'd be this is really hard stuff to get and it was sixty bucks. So I'm I'm working on my book and my my Acquisitions Editors Women Karen White House at Hayden. Karen was amazing. She's one of those women who just doesn't take no for an answer of how ended up writing the book she didn't say no but I didn't say yes instantly when she asked if I'd write the book but she wanted the desk and I was like well you know it'd be great if you could get me Mac. Tcp something called Max Slip INTERCON softer. That was the thing that they dialed your modem and would give me the instead of just giving you a terminal connection Max slip we give you an IP address and your Mac was on it as that was the IP part of TCP IP. So you needed those two things and then I was like Oh and Eudora and fetch and I can't even remember if there was anything else in that first one so stuff stuff at span right you need add head start because you couldn't you otherwise you couldn't have been expanded yet so in so Mac so I did totally didn't expect Karen to be able to get back. Tcp because it was commercial serious commercial software and on the other stuff is either shareware or free software on the West and she somehow talked apple into licensing NAK TCP for five thousand dollars which was a ton of money at the time but Hayden had was in a funny situation they were a new imprint of Gosh Prentice Hall in one of the larger companies at the time it can't remember and they were just told to get market share so they could spend money and so so karen goes and gets TCP and we put it on the disk that makes it a complete system with one more thing. Which was that I was like. Oh who you gonNA call not ghostbusters. But the the you needed an ISP and there weren't just ISP's at that point. In time. I mean there was like in every city maybe if it was a big enough city Seattle and the Seattle is pay was a company called northwest next. This and I've been working with them since I moved to Seattle in Nineteen ninety-one side actually connected with another group that they'd merged with sort of when you just shared Internet connections and so I went to see them and I said you know Hey. I'm looking for an ISP to do this. Do you know of anyone. I did assume they wouldn't do it. Because this was going to be a a national book if not International Book and the Guy Moran said that's a problem we'd like to have like Oh okay and so. We ended up having all the software and a flat rate Internet account. Which was the first one So before that you paid by the minute so the longer you done line you could see that racking up so you talk about ten bucks an hour to call any in Pittsburgh. Well that was the same thing with your Internet Canal. Plus actually was worse than that because it was long distance phone call possibly and the the cost of the Internet connection so this was so popular. We actually had people calling internationally from Japan to Seattle because it was cheaper than getting Internet access in Japan. Phrase was thirty bucks a month and so so yes so that book. I mean you know. Obviously you do the best work you can. I'd never written a book before I was just you know like giving people everyone giving everyone everything I knew and at the time it literally was everything there was to know about the Internet and the Macintosh and pretty confident of that because we actually held the book for another week or two So I could get stuff about the first web browser Mac dub dub in an and stuff like that so it was just happening so we were the fifth book about the Internet rather than the fourth because of holding it for an extra couple of weeks so I could cover the web. I remember reading it and I remember that I was A voracious enough MAC nerd on the Internet at the time that I knew just about all of it. I definitely learned Eudora stuff from you. I mean how could you not I mean nobody? Only Steve Doerner knew more about your door. So I definitely did learn stuff and or or relearn stuff that I had forgotten but I just enjoyed reading it as the you know. It was like a reinforcement of encyclopedic knowledge. You know I can completely confirm that it felt to me like this is everything you could possibly possibly know about getting a Macintosh onto the Internet. Yeah I I think the thing. That's so crazy in hindsight it so hard to remember and like you think like well how the hell could Mac. Tcp something apple tried to sell for sixty dollars in it wasn't I don't think so much. A proprietary money grab but just the way. The industry has grown up around. You know like in the way was clueless. Pc floppies and MAC floppies were different. File format so you couldn't put one even you know you just couldn't put one into the other. Well there were also different networking protocols and you might have a novell network if you had a bunch of Pc's and you had a local talk network if you had a bunch of MACs and that you know and and and there were other proprietary things that token ring. I I never saw one but I remember reading about it and it was very expensive but you just networking was just one of these things where you'd have to like making investment error file formats. You know me like you'd have Mac right and somebody else had word and somebody else had nisus and none of the files could be interchanged. And that was that and and networking was like that and even at first. Tcp networking was just sort of seen as another one okay. Nobody owns it. It's out there. You know it's it's open source. We didn't even call it open source at the time but it was just seen as an alternative and so you know the stacks from Microsoft just commercial products like everything else. Well they weren't. They weren't actually that point in time. Tcp Ip was mostly an academic thing and so in fact apple mostly site licensed So so if you were cornell you gotTa site licensed Amac. Tcp and just gave it out to everybody and so that was what was kind. Tricky about it was is for most people. You didn't even think about buying it because you just gotten as a at work if you were appropriate place. And that's why it was so weird that they sold it for sixty dollars because no one could possibly need it if you weren't at a university or possibly a big business but most corporations really weren't doing this at this point so it was this really weird outlier product. The the funny thing that happens is the book comes out in September of nineteen ninety three and I go to macworld in actually before two thousand four go to macworld in late December. I get a cease and desist letter from Apple. And I'm like I'm freaking out. This is apple legal like apple legal. Who is known to be like you throw raw meat to the lawyers in the pit kind of apple legal and so I am scared. Witless spy this and they sent it to me which is worse if they tended publisher bad enough but he sent it to me on the phone immediately and so you know and they published talks me downs. Like we'll deal with this. Don't worry but they basically said that we had the wrong sort of license They didn't mean they didn't Karen. Somehow sweet talk them into something they didn't mean and so. I'm I'm stressing about this for weeks over Christmas and everything and then we go to macworld early January and I meet up with a guy named Gary Horn buckle who was the product manager for that entire division at Apple and as I met him I just actually on the floor literally ran into him. He's like Oh Adam so nice to meet you and I'm I'm worried because they threatened to be sued and he's like and he's like don't worry about the lawyers I will. I will deal with them. You have sold more copies of Makati in three months than we have ever sold. Because we've sold twenty thousand copies the book and that first three minutes and so from like from his perspective. I was a gift like I had made his product Popular Right. Like in a certain sense as the product manager and clearly. You know there were people wasn't company why it was like it was like a a slice of apple that got the Internet right away and clearly the team do AMAC. Tcp that group. They just wanted Max to be on the Internet. Yeah Yeah because that was back in the days when FTP AT APPLE DOT com was sitting under mark. Johnson's death. So yeah I mean. And he was in. He was in developer Technical Support. He wasn't even in the networking division. You know I mean that was and he ran apple's. Ftp surfer so right. So I mean the Internet was wasn't even on the radar of these companies. I mean it's fascinating because the guy who introduced the Internet to Microsoft steps and he was actually Tania's Ra at Cornell resident adviser. Yes yes we've known Steve in since one thousand nine hundred eighty five but he goes back to. Cornell he's he's he's working as Bill Gates as personal assistant he goes back to Cornell and sees what Cornell is doing with with TCP NOT VIP networking and including at that point. See you see me. Which is the first video conferencing postage stamp size postage stamps? He writes the memo to bill that that starts Microsoft down the path of the Internet. I've actually got A. I had never seen it until quite recently. In fact I've got a copy of it and it's just fascinating because I can see him like walking around campus talking to these different people's like home. My Gosh Oh my gosh. Because when he left him he was he was obviously older so he must have laughed in like eighty six or eighty seven. It was before that stuff had really hit so it wasn't until he comes back. I think it was on a recruiting trip. And he sees what it's happened at Cornell and he's like Microsoft has to go here and and eventually ran up ran up running all of windows Microsoft. Yeah Right Yeah. They got him somewhere. I guess so so. Yeah so it's been a it's it's really hard to remember just how difficult it was for people to to wrap their heads around this stuff. Yeah it really really was all right. Let me take a break here. Thank our third and final sponsor of the episode. Our good friends at squarespace. Hey squarespace you need a website. You have an old website. You need updated. Check OUT SQUARESPACE. Something like a blog. A podcast you want to host it. You don't know how to start checkout squarespace. They have everything you can register the domain pick from one of their templates start posting the CMS itself. Right there in squarespace. Somebody comes to you and says hey I know you. You know a lot about computers. I need a website. Where do I do send them to squarespace? You would be surprised if you view source and start looking around the headers of like html said go to like your favorite restaurants and stuff like that and if it's a really cool looking website there is an incredibly high chance that they're running on squarespace because it is a fantastic platform for people who need a website. Whose business is really running a website. It's selling pizza. But they need a website so they can sell the pizza. That sort of thing squarespace is the answer. It is so much easier than anything else and they have a thirty day free trial. Try It if you don't like it you don't have to do anything and then at the end thirty days in you do like it. That's when you start paying It's just fantastic. Keep them in mind. Next time you need a new website or somebody you know comes to you for help with a website. Squarespace is really just you cannot go wrong by starting their put some puts put a couple of hours into it. See where you get. It's so easy all visual if want low level get in their modify the CSS Java script. If that's your thing if that's a level you WANNA work at. But if you're not you just want to do it. Totally whizzy WIG squarespace. Has You covered. Go to squarespace DOT COM slash. Talk Show to get your free trial today. And that's just to get your free. Trial started. Squarespace dot com slash talk show but the same code talk show will get you ten percent off your first purchase. When you're thirty day free trials up and you have to start paying so just go there. My thanks course. Base for continuing to support this podcast. All right somehow we've got to cover like twenty years at tidbits history in the last week. It is daunting sometimes when I think back about just how long. I've been doing this because I never started with. This intent wasn't like Oh this is going to be my career. It was just this thing which had did what's the point. Here's my question. What's the point where it was their point in high or in hindsight does it seem like there's a point like what's the point where it felt like? Hey this is here to stay. Well probably in some sense. It became real to me in fact when we moved to Seattle so in in one thousand nine hundred one Tanya got a job at Microsoft supporting Microsoft Word and the as we moved from Ithaca to Seattle and had been doing apple consulting back insulting sample now but it was all Mac. There was nothing else doing consulting in ethica and suddenly. I knew no one you know is completely different area. And there's probably a lot more business there. If I had the context I was completely completely At Sea and so I basically just Kinda doubled down on tidbits and that was what I did. And so that was when we started. We started our sponsorship program and in fact that was the first advertising on the Internet and L. No Google has yet to say thank you so well let me say thank you thank you. I'm glad you you can earn a living now that we have advertising on the Internet but yeah back in one thousand nine hundred ninety two that era. We had the acceptable use policy. Because we're still moving coming off of the ARPANET and who National Science Foundation was sort of in charge of staff and this National Science Foundation acceptable use policy. Said you can't do commerce on the Internet and it wasn't quite clear what that meant was actually another guy still around Brad. Templeton had done. Actually a commercial service called clarinet that had syndicated content like Dave Barry Columns and stuff had to pay for that that was unused net but Tidbits was the absolute first advertising on the Internet. And and I think that was when it was sunk in that it was real but when I was like okay now I have to do this like this is how I earn a living and that really you know that that that that made the difference and it's not all that much longer that irate Internet starter kit for Macintosh which sold some insane number. I don't know five six hundred thousand copies over over three or four years so that change things in many ways even more but I was always really clear about how tidbits had to keep going because Tippett's was the only reason why I got to do the Internet starter kit and you know. Fast forwarding. A bunch of years tidbits is the only reason. Why are take control? Book Series was successful. So so I've always kept headbutts as like. This is my foundation. This is what I work from. And you know it's like it's not a it's a it's not conceivable like I don't know what life would be like if I didn't have a Monday deadline to put out an issue I've done it. Fifteen hundred and ten weeks now or something like that so you know it's just. It's just who I am. Well that gets to the sort of to me. The defining transition is to a website and and I got hung up on this for many years. well defined many at this point but but like. I always say like I I was at Drexel from ninety one to ninety six and And defining thing for me was my participation at the student newspaper where I went from a columnist to an editor and learned cork express in graphic design. Just really so that I could make my own columns look better and then wound up being the editor in chief of the whole paper and we had a great little team at a school that had no journalism program at all. Everybody was money mechanical engineering. And but we you know the just absolutely terrific and people who went on to careers at publications like The Wall Street Journal and the Associated. Press and photographers who gone on to win awards newspapers. It was a really neat little team But I got out of there ninety six and I knew I wanted to do stuff on the Internet and wanted to make my own stuff but I couldn't figure out the format and I was too hung up on the idea of us like and you know and it took a while for like the. Just let go of it somehow. It took me six years to get there and fireballs publish stuff when you come in. Think of it and tidbits doesn't it's not like you have to wait a week and only new stuff shows up at tidbits dot com on. Mondays like so. I'm curious how you made that transition. Because the early ones were definitely issues. You know the hypercard the the weekly see text ones. It was once a week. Here it is thirty kilobytes. And and there's your issue and then you'd wait for the next issue to get more. Yeah I it's an interesting question and it's it's an. It's an evolutionary process. So I would say that it. Gosh I can't even say when it happened exactly because I we had the website that Andy Affleck made for us at Dartmouth and then at some point we brought that quote unquote in house and in fact it was hosted at Glen Fleischmann's point of presence company. He was running an Internet provider at the time and on star but it was still. That wasn't the source right. That was just where the issues went after I finished them and then the next step actually was. Jeff Duncan who was working with us for many years was was fiddling around with file maker and You Tila came about the called. They were like utilities that that allowed you to link file maker to a Web server. I remember remember what they were called either but I. I remember doing excellent. It was like one of the first ways I made money in life was and so so so he he he said. Oh this is interesting. I just like he some point. Sort of pops up like let me tell you something and pops up. We talked on the phone every day because have never had an office. It's always been none of my house. And Jeff was working at home too and so He we would call it. Spent just hours on the phone. And but he's like. I'm GonNa show you something and so. We went to showed me a website that he had built. That was alive searchable archive of everything. We'd done which he had imported into file maker and so but at that point still just importing the issues. I mean so. We sort of sort of backed into this concept of a website and so only at some point quite a bit later and I can't I can't remember what I have to go back and look. Did we come up with the idea that we had a website and we post articles throughout the week and then collect them into an issue And that's been our process for many many years. Now trying to think at some point Glenn Fleishman wrote wrote our content management system was called the tits publishing system in Pearl and it was. It was wonderful. Did exactly what we wanted but it was also very brittle because it did exactly what we wanted and nothing else and but that was one of the concepts we had. Which was that you could publish edit everything live. But at some point you like push a button and it collects all the stuff that hasn't yet been published and and builds this email issue and spit it out in different formats and things like that so we could. We could post in different places and so we really did sort of feel our way into what we have now. Yeah and you know every every publication that continues to have issues still does that. I mean you know you can still believe it or not. You can go buy a printed copy of the New York Times. Yes and my parents are unhappy about the sudden getting the Sunday Times right. Dr Howard shirt out of funny bit. Where he is is parents are obviously a bit older his his dad his dad is reading the New York. Times Howard Stern is famous Germaphobe. He wants them to read it with gloves on our not reading the New York Times with gloves on I've always my favorites are told us I but I can't i. I will never not tell the story is. I was at starbucks this point. I think I I told on the show with Glen and Glen. Of course you when you get to the punch line will love it but probably four or five years ago at this point not too long ago but four or five years. I'm at starbucks drink and your order and then you go over to the place where you wait and their two young women I would. I would guess you know Louis College Twenty one ish. Two of them and over the it was a Sunday and there was one of them. Had Burt bought the New York Times at starbucks and she was explaining to the other girl and the other young woman had obviously really wasn't familiar with printed newspapers and she was like wait. They they do this every day and then she goes well the Sunday one is thicker but yes every single day and then the other the other young women said why would they do that and I was just so blown away I was like you know what when you really think about it. You like how much does it do it? It's it is insane amount of work and if it it's kind of crazy why why would you put that work into having to make all your text and graphics fit into print when you can just happened on the web where it doesn't matter and is successful is the Times in particular You know a couple of the papers have done a trend terrific job in there there. I wouldn't say anybody's thriving in today's literally today's media landscape with with the Corentin and all the stuff going on but in general at the star. Twenty Twenty The New York Times and Washington Post and the Wall Street Journal which twenty-five years ago were very well regarded successful. Newspapers continued to thrive in the Internet age but they all had rocky transitions from the today's paper to the. Hey wait we have an article at four in the afternoon and it's ready to go and it's big news. What we do you know do we. You hold it for tomorrow. So I'm always interested. Tidbits had that weekly mindset made the transition and and to this day. It's a little awkward. So whenever apple announced something on a Monday tries me up the wall I because I feel like it has to be in the issue. Otherwise it may. It'll be on the website no question but will wait a wait now and to get back to what we were talking about earlier with the email newsletters. I mean we have About Twenty four thousand subscribers now and I think the majority of them really see tidbits as a weekly newsletter. That's that's how they see it. They do not see it as a website. And and you know honestly. They've been with us for a long time. I mean we have people who literally been subscribing four twenty twenty five thirty years. I mean the bulk of our subscribers actually came because of the Internet Starter Kit in nineteen ninety three ninety four so so there is that. Sense that yeah. We're still a little weird an old in that regard but it's also where my core is and and I'm not gonNA. I'm not going to disappoint them. You know that that these are people who that they've figured out how they want to read information and he meal newsletters are hard to be. They've come around on the guitar. But it's you know for these people. It's just the way it's always been and I mean we've actually had features on our website it at various times over history that would allow you to get a back issue via email. You can email it to yourself because people wanted it in their email. I remember I remember when I am DB was email you would you would send. Imdb an email with something a query in the subject and then they would email you back with the information from the movies that weary in your subject at done and it was really useful. I remember taking film classes in college and it was really useful because it was like you didn't really have to keep notes on like the you know some Old Rear Window. Alfred Hitchcock Nineteen fifty-six or whatever year was well you didn't have to keep notes you had it was right there in your email. You know there it is. There was in fact how our sponsorship stuff started. It was email auto responders you could send email to a particular address that tidbits dot com. And you would get whatever you wanted back from that. And needless to say this was before spam literally before spam before a very. Let me say this to wrap up and and this is a dangerous question after the RAPA question but if we can do it concisely. I'm curious as your thoughts. And this Wa- why Apple. Why why the focus on Apple So in nineteen ninety when we started this Tanya had been using MACs for a couple years an SE thirty. I had built my own hard-drive especially thirty so I had an. I had a a thirteen chapel. Color display a second monitor. I've had some second displays since the very beginning. It was the right topic that had avoid that needed filling and let me see explain. That things happened on the Internet back in those days because they needed to because they because there was a solution that did not yet exist. And if you saw one of those and you could fill it you did and what I you know I have this degree in hyper textual fiction and ancient Greek and whatnot from Cornell and I loved it but it was academic know it was. It was fun I was under. No tresser wanted to apply for a Mellon Fellowship and go to Grad School. And I'll let you know I love this but I it's not a career. You have to wait for people to died. Get a job in this field and what I loved doing was playing around with the computer and not playing games on the computer but playing around with the computer and I mean residents an f. Edit and you know figuring out how things work I mean you talked about lasers legislators could be controlled. Programmatic with postscript was a language and it was this incredible real. World Colossal Cave. With all of these twisty little passages were just there to be explored and what I wanted to do was explore them and share that and it was. I mean apple was just it was. I don't think actually knew that much about the company at this point it was just this Mac. That was in front of me that I could get into in so many ways and and share what I could find and so that's I think why I mean that's that's sort of the longer more abstract answer. The short answer is that it was Tanya's idea she was working at microcomputers office systems at Cornell the group this sold computers but there's also the group that sold copiers and fax machines and so her coworkers will not computer people. They really had very little idea how to sell computers and her her position was new technologies consultant and so she sold Max and next machines and things like that and she was frustrated or coworkers didn't really know very much about what's going on in the industry and so she decided that she can use her page maker skills leftover from being in the Mac user group and being the newsletter editor to do a little newsletter co workers about what was going on the industry and so she comes home one night and tells me that she had this idea and I think that's a great idea. I'll help you do it again. Void be filled. But I want to put it in hypercard because I prepared was the coolest thing ever at that point in time and I just loved trying to figure out how to do stuff in it and the pacemaker print version lasted two weeks before. I don't even remember why it was just deemed too much work or they didn't appreciate it or whatever and the rest is history but it was. It was just what we wanted to do. And I mean maybe you've had this to but it was something we could do together and I mean this was. This is very much a joint effort. I mean Tania's doesn't deal with day to day of tidbits anymore except on the that kind of financial financial aspect of things. But she certainly knows what's going on and I can talk to her about any article or any topic at any moment And she knows exactly what I'm talking about. And so just the to share that with some be able to share that experience with someone was unbeatable. And you know I. I guess unusual didn't it was at the time because I was young and it was all I knew but you know we we were just you know it together the whole way. Well that's a good answer. Let's end it right there. That's fantastic thank you so much for your time. Here's the thirty more years. No pressure I people have said that. And I'm like I'll be eighty two. That's good I really don't know about eighty two. Although I have to say we have a twitter. Who's one hundred and two now so eighty two sounds like kind of easy My thanks to our sponsors squarespace. Lynn owed and feels and My thanks to Adam. Angst tidbits DOT COM and Of course on twitter. What's your twitter handle atom? I'm or just about everywhere. There's only one more of me on the Internet. Well my thanks to you. I gotta go thanks Adam. It's been wonderful anytime.

Mac Apple Inc Macintosh. apple Stack Drexel Cornell programmer writer Max Mac Kelsey Tracy kidder San Diego
02 | The Secret History of Cryptids

Crypto-Z

22:37 min | 9 months ago

02 | The Secret History of Cryptids

"Hi Adrienne here just to let you know that. This episode of Cryptography is sponsored by Dell it together till it together is a narrative and mission led marketing agency that helps businesses and organizations of all sizes grow their audience online Iran their mission and achieved sick to make is it tell it together dot com. That's T. E. L. L. I. T. together DOT COM. Before we begin I would like to mention another podcast by resting will stellar firma. Still from his a weekly science fiction comedy podcast following the misadventures of still from Lebanon's highest. Born but lois achieving to designer tricks. L. Guides and his bewildered clone assistant. David Join Drexel David. Seven each week attempt to dig listener submissions and craft them into planets all right. Let's jump do episode two. If you join us for the first time stop right there go back and find episode one the Hanford in sister and now the secret history of cryptic. When you have a secret nothing is safe. The world becomes dangerous and frightening place. One filled with trapdoors. It distorted mirrors ready to open up in Solo. You whole I have a secret. Kept it for a very long time now so long comper coho without it. That's how I lost my way. I suppose I held a secret cross clutching it to me until everything around me became fin distorted but now. I have no choice. I tell the truth before I can no longer distinguish between what is real. And what is an unusual this way text twist rocks? Give me your hat forget. How climbing makes me sons warming the oxygen it gets even warmer. We'll lose the prince straight up into the mountain. His only going to get colder from here on out. What else do you estimate as high as they can go? Four thousand feet high. That's a lot of cold. Tori has a reason that called ICEMAN. Bryce there's a reason they survived the grinding. Hell of Earth's climate apocalypse like cold showers. There are chaotic. Hobbits living fossils built like no other human beings with stomach oath mother focus in the evolutionary focusing ring to survive the sixth Ice Age. Not many mammals administered the iceman of survive more that our current climate apocalypse survived has Clinton's and mass migrations and famines. They've survived ice ages the age of neanderthals global warming and now the six extinction and they will have no doubt outlive homo as well. There used to be dozens of varieties of human beings wandering the planet they all di Da Group by group sleeves. The real question behind all of this. What is different about these guys? Why have they survived and others didn't have all in the worst conditions imaginable? These mountains formed them his positive their bodies. This is part of their blood strong. My first assignments were in the Carpathian. Mountains wasn't nearly as high up as we are here. Got a feel for living in the mountains. Hold that ice and snow cold wind. It got into my blood so to speak. I sometimes wonder work is designed that to get into to get into the Vladan take over our lives. Don't struggle you know home my Gonna. Watch your step up here. It happens. I check your ice cream the loose. I should have caught that these mountains. Don't forgive mistakes one second. You're climbing into the clouds next at the bottom of A. Could I ask you something? Sure happened that you ended up being. How did someone with my rugged chime and up Skilling mountain hunting for London isn't the center of Cryptos that I realized that still have never met an agent like you. It's a good thing. Believe me Pull on you see. The prince disappeared can't be gone but we would have lost the trail of the water. They went up ready to climb. Wait a minute what is it. I'm not sure something here. See THAT FOOTPRINT. Look look more closely right. There's something onto the ice. Give me the act. Let me see tooth claw back. Oh my God it's a toenail war. It must've fallen from one of the creatures. Look did you see how thickness of Nacre is. How Glossy Siri does mother Pearl? Not exactly the same. But SIMILAR MOLLUSCS MAKE MOTHER. Appel the minerals hardened to form a layer that protects them from parasites. It's incredibly strong. Durable the formation of this material is one of the great mysteries of the natural world. I'd say this toenail pretty damn serious. His conical structure is due to the unusual shape of the creatures second toe the Haluk. Switches that signature trait bigfoot misnomer but understandable. When you look at the size of this toenail never seen anything like has because there isn't anything like it's no one has ever recovered a piece of these creatures before ever. This is the first must be worth a fortune. Putting a price on this would be like estimating the value of the moon. He can't be done. It's priceless let me hold it. It's dense and extremely durable. My guess is that it's very similar. If we were to send this to a lab we would find the chemical breakdown to be a mixture of inorganic and organic materials mineralized tissues and Collagen Nicole position of the toenails of the iceman closer to elephant tusks. Toenails are real one hundred percent. This proves it. You know that Real Bright. He saw that with your own eyes. Yeah but this is the first time I've actually touch something from one of the creatures could even seeing them yesterday hearing voices also like a dream. Did you reduction gibbons treatise on the chemical properties of crypto? Of course. What did you think about the series that crypt DNA can alter the chemical composition of other life forms by their proximity? I think he's mad. Genius put mad. Crew Studies pretty convinced her convincing but not definitive PESCA scientific consensus on cryptic before we claim they have magical powers. It isn't magic. It's physics the cells. Certain cryptos adapt in ways that are in line with molecular mutation but at a pace. That's different from other life phones. They adapt to nature better than we saved. It's possible in theory. What are you doing got any string in that? Pack making a big enough loop so you can wear it around your neck. Like a necklace. How're you doing back on? You asked me earlier by. I'm here okay. I get it you can handle the cold. This is the answer. I'm sorry. How did it happen from the look of their scars? We in an accident. You could call. It suffered immensely kind of accident doesn't let like a simple injury. A Wolf Wolf did that to me here in Canada Wolf impossible. They're extinct. I really should have died to be honest. I was alone but I was lucky. And one hundred found an hour or so after it was attacked. You heard me whimpering in pain. He took me to his cabinet. Kept me alive until they could get to a hospital. We're working with other agents. They were there to get information. That a wolf pack had been cited in the mountains as you can imagine. We didn't believe I needed to see for myself. I wasn't careful to think I needed to be begin to imagine the difficulty of recovering from that after I'd healed I didn't WanNa go back to crypto. See I went the opposite direction. University a monastery life of contemplation and prayer joined the Franciscan brotherhood. I became a monk. I don't seem like the spiritual type. It's hard to pick to you in a row. I ended up leaving. The monastery was in. The northernmost regions of the mountains are. Wolves can get as big as lions. Sometimes it's heaviest two hundred dollars. I think I read a paper about this. About how these oversize walls had all the classic properties of Lichen through. Yes the Wolfman Half Wolf half human. I wrote that paper. How are you saying that a Werewolf did that to you? Never heard neither our team was in northern Slovakian. It happened so many local legends about creatures in that part of the world so many old wives tales still that were salted lead that send us into the western carpathians pictures reliable videos and so on and to be totally honest with you. I could feel the thing there in those mountains sense. It probably sounds crazy but I knew he was there. I've been following pack a big wolves huge beautiful black wolves see anywhere outside of those mountains house tracking them log my field notes doing what we do and then I started to come across strange things. One morning I found a burned down. Fire were bones from an animal suggesting that that fire had been used for cooking meat. Strangest of all all around the site with those same strange prints no human principal. Think a wolf was capable of creating and using fire. Sounds fucking insane. I know accept something attacked me. Something came me from behind. Couldn't get a good look at it. It hit me hard. Knocked me down from that point on. I lost consciousness. Could it be man not a werewolf and according to the doctor who treated me that was tooth lodged in one of my ribs? Tastes broke off all the things biting into me. It's probably why it took off and left me alive. Yeah this is it similar to a wolf's tooth but after it was analyzed we found. It was too big too sharp to belong to any of the WOLF SPECIES. We've ever documented the necklace. If you've ever Dr Self what you saw hold onto it agent. Bright was right. Belief is the only thing that will get us through this bright bright. You Must Remove Water. Come on suit up better better titan about the need to keep your leg animated to hold on a little off either salon to the dried food. I brought this Grima. No eat it all up or go out and try to scavenge something as soon as the sun comes up for live until I'm not dying. This isn't the end for Die Yourself. This is for nothing I know. Stop It. Stop Moving. Promise me you record everything. We saw everything you experienced. Janet MC record of the Truth. I PROMISE. Start from the beginning. I was fifteen years old when I encountered the iceman that July we were in Komiya a small rustic Italian village at the highest point of the Asta Valley. It wasn't the most popular village but when snow falls more than two hundred days a year. Skiing was one of the few ways to make the best of things but one day in one of my mad dashes down the mountain. I thought I saw a hawk flying in the sky. It was such an unusual even impossible site. I will never know if there was actually a bird or not. I hit a rock and fell. I wasn't seriously injured but I had twisted my ankle. I tried to get down the mountain that it was impossible. And so I found an exposed outcropping of rock pulled myself onto it and waited. It was midday many hours before dusk and I knew that once my parents realized I was missing. They would search for me. I wasn't afraid until the creatures stepped from the forest. It arrived like the Sun gliding over sheet of ice a thing so weit and ethereal that it seemed at first glance little more than a swell of light in the wind for a solid minute. I watched it thinking that I must be imagining it but as it came closer I understood that it was a man or a kind of man tool very tall and sin with skin so pale that it seemed to glimmer in the light I had no category in my mind for this creature other than human being but as he approached I began to understand that this man was not one of us but another life form altogether. He was covered in fine. Whitehead the glimmer. I had seen at first. Glance revealed itself to be the brilliant refraction of ice crystals frozen in his hair. I would like to learn that a particular oil coach. The skin and fur of the creatures giving the Shimmer that in certain exposures seems to sparkle like glitter because if the creature is lit from within approach to looked at me. His Lou is enormous his expression for as if he were fascinated by me as I was with him. He said something. I couldn't understand. How would later no this to be a greeting in the ICEMAN language? The sound of his voice was soothing. Friendly I slid forward on the rock pushing myself toward him as he approached when he held out his hand. I took it. He carried me into the forest. My life would never be the same I hope you enjoyed a sippy. Said and thank you for listening. If you'd like to help us continue to produce episodes of Cryptos and other audio dramas of this quality. We need you support. The mouth is the best way for us to grow in audience. Large enough to sustain a show like dizzy. So please share this episode with your friends and your families whomever you think would enjoy it to help others find US online. Hit Subscribe Lever Review Chevy's episode on Social Media and twitter about it for those who wishes we also developing new ways for iceman cryptic words the SEC and other undocumented life forms to be part of your life for example we open the store and we shall find amazing merchandise like our official Z. Logo made of genuine is meant for. It is very effective to attract any kind of iceman leaving your area. However if you're living in a small space so we'd like to keep your tranquility are you simply cannot find something like to wear and decades first of all. Let me know and second. We're making donations available. If you'd like to have just simply supporters that way and again you can always takes us at six four six two two nine three four two three. It's in the show notes. Thank you again for listening and see you next time. Coop disease created by Hadrian royal and then true Sony with Funabashi and Jamieson price produced by our Hala Smith's and Hadrian royal original music Jordan plot supervision by our Hollie Smith and music mixing by team. Lightner thank you again for listening and see you next time.

ICEMAN Cryptos Hanford Drexel David Adrienne Lebanon T. E. L. L. Dell Iran US Skiing Hollie Smith di Da Group Bryce neanderthals Skilling mountain Tori Haluk Chevy
How to Build a Flexible Culture in Health without Compromising Values with Drex DeFord, Indie Healthcare IT Consultant

Outcomes Rocket

31:36 min | 1 year ago

How to Build a Flexible Culture in Health without Compromising Values with Drex DeFord, Indie Healthcare IT Consultant

"Welcome to the outcomes rocket podcast, where we inspire collaborative thinking, improved outcomes and business success with today's most successful, end inspiring healthcare leaders and influencers. And now your host, so Marquez. Outcomes. Rocket listeners welcome back once again to the outcomes rocket where we chat with today's most inspiring and successful health care leaders really want to thank you for tuning in again. And hey, if you like what you hear today or in general, I want to ask you to just give us a rating and review on apple podcasts. Just go to outcomes, rocket dot com slash reviews, and you'll be able to rate and review the show and give us some feedback, and even if you didn't like it, which I'm sure that won't happen with today's guest, let us know. And we'll make sure that we make it better. We wanna make sure that this show adds value to you, so please and thank you without further ado. I want to introduce our outstanding guest his name is Drake's defer. He's, an independent healthcare IT consultant, but he has a long list of achievements in healthcare. He's been the chief information officer at various institutions including Seattle Children's at scripts how and a long list of other things that he's done even in the air force. So what I wanna do is just open up the microphone to directs and have them round out that introduction. Drake's welcome to the podcast. So I'm glad to be here. Thanks for having me. Absolutely. Hell you a little bit about myself. The yes sure, I'll try to do the short version as much as I possibly can. I'm a farm kid from Indiana. Didn't have money to go to college. Wand of joining the air force, as an enlisted guy went to school is I finished my degree, and sort of wound up weirdly in the right place at the right time became a CIO too, small hospital, and one of our regions, then one of our medical centers was the chief technology officer for force help in DC for worldwide operations before I retired after an accidental sort of twenty year career and then who was recruited to Seattle Children's note. Sorry. Scripts hell C, there's so many of these things I can't even cry. But I went to scripts and was there for two years was recruited to Seattle Children's to be the CIO book the hospital and the research institute. And Stuart helped you're in Boston than I did start up with a friend of mine, and about two and a half years ago, my own shingle. And, and I've been lucky enough to be able to work on the things I really want to work on. And then I'm good at and not work on the things that I don't wanna work on that. I'm not good at. And so it's been fun. I'm really very, very lucky now. That's great drags. I had an opportunity folks, I had an opportunity to direct Santa health IT meaning and, and struck up a conversation, and I was just really moved by some of the thoughts and things at Drexel was doing. And I just said, Drexel have to be on the show, the listeners will get a lot from having you on. So really glad we were able to put it together tracks. What would you say? Hot topic, you feel should be on every medical leaders agenda, and how are you addressing it with your? Clients. Yeah. A hot topic. Well, you know, I'm lucky enough. Now, I do speak, a lot of conferences, and do some some things like that. And when I do that can when I engaged with any of my clients are really talk about building organization culture, kind of has the ability to bend inflex, and change, and be innovative, you know, truly building an organization that can take advantage of and thrive in the new model was healthcare, because I'm I see healthcare storm or moving from fee for service, you base care, and that's going to happen without a doubt. We have healthcare organization, certainly that are stuck in the paper service side of the fence, and they've built a whole culture around this model and they're taking their sweet time making the change. I totally get it chainsaw. It's not fun. But, you know, in my opinion, it's time to embrace the suck, you know, as we say in the military change means figuring out what what's going to work and you know, what will work what won't. We're in. You're not gonna do that overnight and move this new model. So I'm always a big proponent of sort starred now build a culture that allows for failure. Inter irritation learning fast and taking advantage of the opportunities that are ultimately going to reveal themselves during after this storm, because I think when the storm is over, there's going to be a lot of fire sales, and I can almost guarantee you that you're not gonna want to be on the wrong side of that emanate. So, yeah, I think cultural changes being flexible, that's kinda key to the operation drinks. I, I think that's such a great highlight there. And I've been a part of great cultures. And I've also been part of not so great work cultures for the leaders listening to your words of wisdom here. What would you say in a nutshell is the key to creating an agile amazing culture? Yeah, there's, there's really a bunch of things that go into this. I also one of the things I talked about regularly is this idea that everything is connected to everything else. And so trying to change one thing. And thinking bid if I just do one thing, and everything else is going fall into place may not be true, but there are things that if you focus on. I think you can be more successful. And that's really things like relentless prioritization, right? We have a hundred things going on in any healthcare organization, or vendor were start up or VC firm today. You know, there's one hundred things going on, and you have to focus, you have to prioritize, and that means sometimes the things that are below the line. The things you choose not to prioritize our focus on that doesn't mean those things are bad ideas or things they shouldn't do. It's just that you have to realize that you only have so much energy and focus on the things and focus on. I think for health systems, a lot of his to driving hard on analytics and continuing to focus on security because we're definitely in that world now where you just can't afford to have that kind of stumble or that kind of a problem. So you have to focus on security and then innovation is a big part of it. And innovation is one of those words that means almost anything that anybody wants to me. So for me a lot of innovation is I have a big background in Toyota production systems, and lean methodologies was lucky enough, again, to be at Seattle Children's of very or relations varies for focus on that. I lived three and a half years in Japan was able to go back and spend time with Yamaha piano, Toyota and others. Drink pants on care. Might be I'm going to change that you make it to the White House. Only once and only as a tourist. Okay. All right. All right. Yeah. But it's, it's that kind of stuff, you know, there are a lot of components in this, but, you know, and I would say the bottom line, probably of all of this is that you have to reorient your organization as much as anything else to focus on the patient. And there are a lot of health organizations who talk about that today, the patient customer, but saying the patient is your customer and actually acting like the patient is your customer, all the time is a huge difference. And that's, that's a it's a great call out directs that's a bit in college. And I think for everybody listening, you know, our how what are you doing to make your patient your customer? And I think right now, Drax in this healthcare consumerism, and he word, but, you know, rising duck Ables, the patient is starting to be more cognizant of where they spend their money, and what they spend their money for. And I think is, is pushing our, our healthcare providers to be a little more cognizant of tailoring their sir. Services in a way that makes the patient that consumer. Oh, yeah. No, I think so, too. And I think the other thing is, and we may talk about this more in just a little bit. But this idea that, especially from information service departments perspectives to customer is not the doctor or the nurse or lab. Radiology or pharmacy or whatever the case may be those pieces of the organization and the IS department have to be partners in the provision of break care to our customers, the patients and family and that every place that I've gone into when I brought that attitude to the organization, and so, so I'm I kinda changed guy. I mean, I've been a change in my whole career, and unfortunately replace that I've been invited into as a chief information officer has been specifically to make change things weren't going well. And that's why the position was that. You know that's why I was hired. And so when you come into it with that attitude, you really sort of changed the whole game forever. Nobody. Right. Doctors and nurses and lab rat. And everyone else start to understand that you're not there to win. They say jumps say, how high your there to when they say jumps say, well, let's talk about jump in what that means and what do you really? And, you know, I wanna make sure I have your back in all of this and building that partnership makes can make all the difference in the world. And it's a great point drinks. You know, you've had a really fruitful career and through the absent and flows, you've taken some opportunities to turn around bad situations. Can you give the listeners an example of what you did in one particular situation that helped improve outcomes or help turn the ship in the right direction? Sure, I spend, not a lot of time, but I spend some time thinking about mistakes that I've made there's a bunch of them, right? I mean I, I don't think get to do all the different stuff that I've been able to do. And hopefully as well as I've been able to do it without sort of sometimes falling down, and but the important part of that is really getting back up. Right. So the problem is easily making a mistake. It's usually recognizing who's been a mistake and then admitting it doing something about it. So, you know, there was one that I was gonna really sort of pull out here and talk about kind of tied to the last part of the conversation. It was two thousand eight it's probably not long after I arrived. At Seattle Children's, we had this really tragic patient incident that led to an accident accidental medication of those for a patient and the nurse made a calculation error, and, you know, the patient was very sick anyway. And all of this sort of combined together to because the patient bass away and everyone was crushed. I mean, the family of quarters, the family, first and foremost. But when it came to the hospital, everyone in the hospital family was also crushed after this had happened in the nurses, especially, and I don't think people really understand until they live through it. When a clinician makes an unintentional error in arms the patient. They carry that with them for the rest of their lives. It's really a terrible burden. And so at children's wing brought everybody into the auditorium. It was kinda one group after another for several days in a row in every different shift and we asked a really simple question. What can we do heap this from ever happening? And, and we got lots of different responses all sorts of feedback on the way that the system and I don't mean computer system, the capitalist system was broken or had a problem. And for my part, a CIO, I kept hearing about now, I was looking for consistent patterns places where maybe we were making a mistake there was, there was a challenge in a lot of it was round slope sees logging onto computers. And sometimes I just go by what I remember because it's hard hard to get PC's to boot up, sometimes takes a long time and all of that, bring generalize -able complaint. And I realized through all that, and this is really the lesson in mistake that I made for much of my career going back. To this idea that information service, shops, and healthier stations are Justice service and support the argument. And as I said earlier, we'll way more than that we're partners with our clinicians, and the delivery break hair haired, our patients and families. We're not something separate seriously. I think we are part of the delivery care, teen and rightfully so our teammates, expect us to have their backs when the going gets tough. And if we do this right, they'll have our backs to. And so back to the Seattle Children's stories of slope PC's were impacting patient care and patient safety, and they were really just sort of another question obstacle to getting the writing gun for the patients and families. So I kind of decided to that point, we have to get out of the PC business, which sounded like a ridiculous idea. But we've been doing virtual desktop infrastructure pilot inside the department. This is two thousand nine so hardly, anybody was really doing being guy in healthcare. And I said that was my CPO Java the name of west right is now the CPO etcetera. Said dude, we just have, you know, the PC business, somehow. And so we did it was a massive effort. We had the backing CEO we have partnerships with a lot of great companies like citric and extra hob. We pulled almost all the PC's our production, replacing zero clients and virtual desktops kinda followed clinicians around everywhere that they went they booted up and just a few seconds. They can take their desktop. I mean, literally just virtually take their desktop home with them and run them on their own PC's or their own max at home, and it went along way toward convincing. Everyone on the team. He IS Arment was a partner and their provision of great here. Our patients and families, and I just service so every piece of work that I do now would CIO's in vendors and startups in investors. Now includes that very simple point that you made earlier, how is what new adding value, a larger team house and making care delivery. You know that our pastors super safer insured access patients and families. Our customers and. In the other part about is, how are you being the kind of partner that everybody wants on their team, because that's a big part of it, too. So, yeah. Mistakes as they say, mistakes have made a few. But it's kinda how do you how do you recover from those when they happen? That's tracks such an amazing story. And you know, it sounds like you guys definitely shifted in a big way. You didn't just take an incremental step here. You shifted in a big way that was thoughtful you didn't just innovate. You listened, which is the number one thing that I think led to you guys, making an impact that actually mattered you listened. And I really admire that about you, even when we were at the conference. I mean you are such a great listener. And so you took that and you apply to that mass scale, and you got out of the PC business and made it so much easier you became a partner instead of getting in the way of clinicians. And I think that's so cool. Thank you for sharing that. Yeah. Sure. No problem. I think the listening, you know, listening is a key part of it. I'm it would be easy for me to say I'm working on a book with a friend. But I'm working on the very early stages of sort of scratching our head about, how would we write a book about this, but listening as part of the concept of empathy as a leader, and as a teammate is a huge deal empathy is in many ways. Empathy is just Makita everything you have to, whether it's your enemy or it's one of your teammates, you have to understand where they're coming from them, what they think, and what they need. And if you get that, then you're way, more likely to put together a plan, whatever it is. And I am really lucky to sing Seattle Children's was kind of a big evolutionary change. Maybe not Belushi Nery, maybe intentionally innovative change to bring better service to my teammates, and ultimate. To the patients and families. But most of the time those mistakes, and there's changes are little tiny iterative innovations that make things just a little bit better. Maybe almost unnoticeable but the ideas that you build that culture that sort of continues to promote that. And so can't we make mistakes, we'll figure it out and we'll go from there and everything that we're doing? We're not doing perfectly. There are mistakes built into our goal in life should be defined as mistakes, and make them less of a mistake, or eliminate them in the process. And and again, if you can do that with empathy in line, you are much more likely to be successful. That's a great message tracks and, you know, I think I'm excited for this book when it comes out, and that it's no. We'll see if it ever actually turns into a book, but it may turn into series of blog posts. Or I'm not sure exactly what's going to happen, which would be cool, too, and a little bit later here. We'll be able to share your, your website with listeners so that they could tap into some of the blog posts that you do Rex's definitely an amazing contributor, not only to his clients, but also to the health space as a thought leader. So definitely make sure to check out his his info here. We'll, we'll provide it to you soon Drax not to get into the weeds. But, you know, we had some changes recently with, you know, the executive order of Trump. What are your thoughts on all that, you know, as we dive into this? How do you think that's going to impact healthcare? That's really kind of sad questions. We probably they often about those back to this idea flexibility, and creating organization that's able to take advantage of whatever might happen to a tear up the old rain court saying, Semper fi I used to tell my teams and on my team. Today, Semper Gumby. Right. You know, always flexible. I don't know what that means. Ultimately, I know that there's a lot of change. I know that there are things that hell systems may have been county on to happen at may or may not happen today. But I think it's pretty clear to me, we are running downhill, toward value based care, and that's going to happen. Right. So no matter how you slice it. Whether it's a single government payer, or it's a model like we have today, were a lot of payers, including the government, they're going to move toward value based care. So the best thing you can do is to keep your eye on that and ball, it's going to happen. How you go through this process of working with your clinical partners, and your payer partners and everyone else that's involved in the healthcare industry. How do you go through this process of making that transition and doing it in a way that makes sense for you? Make sense for your market made since we your. Patients and families if you focus on that. I think the other stuff, you know, regulation beer, regulation, there, you'll figure that out don't stop and digging your heels and fee for service and say, I'm not gonna do anything until they figure this out because I can tell you this is going to be a really bumpy ride, but they figure it out. You better already be down the road, or you're gonna be on the wrong side of that Manet that I. No. I love it tracks and appreciate you answering that, you know, friends, we have to make sure that we are not distracted by the noise. And the things that happened in the news and insurance policy, it's noise, but I think direct says has highlighted for us that where the puck is going value based care. And if you stay focused on that laser focused, you're going to get an outstanding performing culture that is in it for the long haul Drax what's a proudest, one of the proudest, medical leadership moments that you've experienced date. Wow, I would say that's a tough one to, you know, I'd say I think probably I don't know that it's a particular time or event but it's probably more that people teammates that I've worked with over the years pokes that I've coaxed mentors. But many of them have coached. And mentored me right back. So that's great. I've been letting up signed release smart people who wanna do that. At the right thing. And that really is kind of, you know, solving our problems, I've been able to met her some really great folks, and gone onto the amazing, CEO's and CPO's, folks. Like Patrick Thomas who recently retired as CIO at scripts, and Julie berry, replacing you CIO at Stewart. And of course, it can't bring it west. Right. Was with me in the air force, and it scripts health, and it's Seattle Children's and I'm proud to have been mentored by some really great people like Ivo Nelson, who most people probably knows founder of both health Lincoln encore health resources, but he gave me my first shot as a CEO, and then guys like route Bill Torrey, the CEO at Stewart who has has a whole different radical way of looking at health care, and that has proven to become the new model of healthcare. So from a personal standpoint, I would say the things I'm most proud over probably my time this the time chair. The college healthcare information management executives chair was great. Learning experience for me against rowdy by budget other great CIO's and a great staff led by rich Carell. And keeps Brandenburg people like that around you. It's pretty easy to make things happen. We hired restaurants L the CEO of chime during that during that time period to, and that's proven have a positive long lasting effect on the college. Oh, and now, I'm, I'm the I'm a board member at center district which is best in class healthcare security consulting firm with great leaders, like MAC, McMillan Davidson, just joined us. And back February see this is another one of those things where you scratch your head and go. I don't know why these things happen to me or how they happen, they happen. So back back in February, we rang the closing bell on the new York Stock Exchange and that was just a crazy moment to experience. So a lot of good stuff happened to meet her out my career. Look, very lucky guy. I don't know. Wake up every day, just so you know today's the day they're gonna find out on religious afar. That's awesome Drexel. I love it. And, you know, the message friends is you are the average of your five closest peers and yeah, yeah. Yeah, you agree with that, right? Treks surround yourself with amazing people. You're going to do mazing things, if you surround yourself with bad people, you're going to do bad things, and so direct. You've been surrounding yourself with amazing people. You're an amazing person and you just continue making things happen in healthcare. And I think that's a strong message. Tell us about an exciting project or focus that you're working on today. Yeah. Thanks kind of all over the place. I work with health systems, and vendors and startups investors, and it's all pretty exciting. But I guess what? It's going to pick out. One thing right now that could turn out to be very big meal, undoing a product development effort with a major helped your ID, and that's a known print avaition and what of their vendor integration partners. Can't provide a lot of the hills. Unfortunately, because we're in early stages of it, and under NDA is we figure out how to create is product in the right way. And if we can do it, right. Price point. I think could kinda radically change the way healthcare organizations sliver services to clinicians. Eliminate distractions improve workflow getting technology out of the way, getting technology out of the way huge meal that I've kind of discovered over the course of my career, and in hospitals and clinics where we piloted clinicians have fallen in love with it. And I guess most of all I would say, you know, it's not just the technology solution. It's a workflow driven solution that's enabled by great tech. So I'm in the early stages right now of doing the tell me why. This is a stupid idea discussions with how carries ex across the country. And so salty be hidden probably southern Californian Dallas during the end of the year all plays out. I'll be able to tell you a lot more about twenty eighteen way to put a hook in love it. I keep up with your blog to make sure that what's going on. But this is it. Sounds exciting. So. And if your metrics, I'm sure that, that there's something there. So really appreciate you sharing that, that's tend you and I are building a medical leadership course on what it takes to be successful in medicine today. That's the one course or the ABC's of Drake's deformed. And so we're going to herreid out of syllabus four questions is going to be a lightning round and finish up with a book that you recommend listeners ready. Okay. I'm ready awesome. What is the best way to improve healthcare outcomes? Yeah. That, that one's easy we've already talked about it. Remember all as that customers that patient, family TV to lose that truce air quotes truth in the complex in chaotic healthcare environment that we built. But that's that's true Norse for all the other stuff that we do in our industry. What is the biggest mistake or pitfall to avoid, I would go back to prioritization? You have to focus your energy on a limited number of things. If you really want your organization to make a difference. And if you can't do that, then it's hard to understand what you really stand for you have to focus. How do you stay relevant as an organization despite constant change? Yeah. I talked about this earlier to embrace the suck. Okay. Change herbs. It's no fun. We don't like it as humans. I actually I did write a blog post about a year ago about Healthcare's antibodies to change and how we seem to have people who have as an additional position, description, stop all things from changing and they come out of the woodwork when you have a new idea, and they just attack it, and you were saying you have to get rid of people, you have to embrace the suck, you have to create that organization. That's nimble and agile and ready to take advantage of opportunities as they arise. One of the quotes, I use all the time is from Darwin, and I actually not from Darwin. I always say Darwinism misquoted, it's not the strong survive. It's those who can change the quickest right so into days environment. It's not the big fish, small fish. It's the fastest need the slow pitch. So don't be slow pitch love it and brace the sock. And what are one? I love that. I'm going to put that in a quote right here in my in my recording booth. Thanks. You made the booth ball. What what's one area of focus that should drive all else in the company, my company, and remember on, I'm really a solo independent consultant, so it's just me, but for me it's about working on hard problems. Number one. Number two that make a difference to patients and families and number three working with people that I like or people that I think are smart, and that I can learn from. And so I mean that's for me. Those are kind of three things that, that helped drive me for different people. And those are pretty broad. It's there's a lot of things that can wind up fitting into those arrangements. But that's what works for me. And finally drinks, what book would you recommend to the listeners? So now I realize more than I ever have before. So can I give you a couple actually? Absolutely. Give us a kind of echo. I wouldn't say Jay Sam, it's this -rupt you there's whole pack and great ideas in that book, and it's a pretty easy read, and you'll put new stuff from the book. To work every day, even as read the book so j Sammons disrupt you. And then I had there's another really good but called give and take why helping others drives our success by Adam grant, and this was a book. That was a friend of mine Jeremy Shwak, who's the CEO a blue tree. He's become a good friend of last couple of years. He actually gifted that book to me at one point after an early conversation internet ads show. It says that giving away your time to others is just think karma. And in the end you get you get back way, more than and the universe has a way of balancing and sell. So I really like that book who and then I'm also in the process of reading just finishing. Now, the subtle art of not giving an F by Mark Manson. I've heard of that book. It's actually fun. Read kinda drives home the point that you only have so much energy. So you have to relentlessly prioritize, and all of that for me. A lot of it was just reinforcing the way that I kind of go through life anyway. But it's good to have that. Reaffirmation. But then three I really like I like to do a lot of great books out there, but there's three that I would and here's the top three so listeners, we have an amazing syllabus here put together for you with three amazing books. Go to outcomes, racket dot com slash directs and you'll be able to find that syllabus as well as the show notes for the things that we discussed with Drax and, and so don't worry about writing any of this stuff down. All the links will be there Drax before we conclude, please share closing thought with the listeners. And then the best place where they get in touch with you including your, your blog site that we've talked about. Yeah, you know. So my blog side is really I'm not nearly as good at this as I probably should be, so the blog stuff that I write usually is on Lincoln. Oh, you know, so you can you can publish stuff there now. And I don't write nearly as often as much as I should the renew. He's not fluff. Yeah. You can find me on Lincoln, and of course, and then website is really simple. WWW dot Drexel dot I O. You can always Email me, direct said directs dot IO pretty good about responding follow me on Twitter at Drexel Ford. A know Donald Trump. But I do tweet about some pretty cool stuff from time to time. And like I said, I'm very promiscuous on wync, thin. So I get kicked out hearing what rebuttals working on, including thought, that's a good one. I think I'll talk about this, probably as a personal thing. But right. If you do the right thing, you have integrity. That's probably to me, the most important personal trait to have in the end. If you I think, in the end, you only have your reputation and that really is your, your integrity. And, you know, for everybody listening, this, you'll raised right. You know, the right thing. And if you're in turmoil about it because you feel like something that you're going through is gray area. You know, ask your mentor or ask somebody, you admire they can help you with it. So if you start with integrity is anger, then everything you do will make sense. It'll feel right and will seem to fit. And it'll be consistent. And so do the right thing that'd be that would be my my final word. I love it drags. Thank you so much for sharing that, and really appreciate you taking time to be on the show with us spent some really great time talking about some valuable things and I know listeners are going to get a lot out of it. So really appreciate your time. Oh my pleasure. Keep up a great job of the podcast. I mean you, you are. You're interviewing some really cool and interesting people I love that. You do the show notes. It's really easy to get to and, and listen to, and, you know, when you're driving your car or whatever it's really great till you're doing a good service. And so, you know, speaking for me, but I think probably a lot of your listeners, thanks as. This has been great. Thanks for listening to the outcomes rocket podcast be shoot. A visit us on the wind at WWW Don outcomes. Rocket dot com for the show notes resources inspiration, and so much more.

Seattle CIO CEO Drax partner Hot topic Drake chief information officer Drexel Indiana Drexel Toyota Boston Marquez consultant apple Japan
Why Didn't We Used to Take Eating Disorders More Seriously?

Diet Starts Tomorrow

47:47 min | 2 years ago

Why Didn't We Used to Take Eating Disorders More Seriously?

"Hello. Welcome to die tomorrow on Sammy. I may lean although you guys should know that by now. Right. Like, you know, our voices. Yeah. No, someone told you someone does no voices because this on this. Yeah. Yeah. They know they know they know our voices. But they were like, no, no, they didn't leaders. Yes. So, but they they kinda. No, yeah. No that it's one of two we're back from Columbia. And it was great. It was really fun. I nothing to be nervous. Like all of that was bullshit. Although I did come away from those conversations with tools that helped me deal yet with what we were like the activities sort of like, it was I was I was acting more mindfully. And I it was so great except for the last day fucked like I fuck up. I just went right? Well, I feel like we pay ourselves until the last like also the good thing is the last meeting last night. No the last night. Like, I was just like fucking I'm drinking. Yeah. But like it was fine. It was worth. It was the best night. It was really fun. But the either okay, I was worried like we would just have so much food, but I feel there was no food ever ever ever having stomach as us also took them so long to bring drink. Every dinner which really helped because like if they had been piling them on. I would have had probably four drinks and dinner as it was only one because it took them until halfway through to bring the drinks. Yeah. But it was really fun. Do you have any a lot of people are emailing us for like where you should go the bars, we went to Al Qaeda, which is basically the chemist or something. Yeah. Is really great. It has three levels. She goes there. We did a boat day. Yeah. You got to go to this place on the boat. It's called found out the name, it's called Chou own alone. Yes, that's right. Like the bar the bar on the water guys. It's in the water and bought like a above seculow from guy like standing in the worked at the bar. But yeah, we bought a vase Hilla because we ran out second. Yeah. A lot of people that was really fun. And it was just like over time time. Do you have any like wins that relate to this podcast for vacation? The fact that I felt like I did it overeat, honestly. Okay. No point during the Bekasi. Did I feel like bad? I felt myself like the first my area was helping me picking out for the first night. And she was like where the one where you will like three two days later when you you'll feel bloated. You won't wanna wear where that one now and. Good point wandering bear. So I did that. But no. So my win was that after the second night when we ate kind of late and drank late dinner ended ten the next day. Everybody looks for breakfast. And I mindfully said I was like let's let me wait till twelve to eat a feel so much better. And I did it was great. That's wonderful. Yeah. The second night. I was sick. So yeah. Okay. When sun poisoning on her back like an idiot didn't put sunscreen on her back. He was just didn't like go. Go capped her shoulders Beck's, ten probably. But no, it was no I tried. I really try to spread it just didn't work. And I was also thinking about Rex's area of the sun. I guess and. So so I mean, the fact that I was like throwing up for like, twelve hours. I don't know couldn't. Okay. I like threw up like throw outside of the beatings store told the story. I bet sloppily little bit like I bought a bathing suit and the next second. I was like I need to throw up, and I ran outside who's your Bank account puking, not really the bags cheap. But so shopping. Yes, they great shopping guys like cute little mini Bax, so bottom many straw bags. We also weaker Wicca. We're going. We. We like a witch which is. Yes. So the fact that I couldn't drink like I first of all through everything up, and then couldn't keep anything down for like the rest of the night. So I couldn't go out. But that actually gave me a chance to rehabilitate myself. Yeah. But I literally woke up in the middle of that night to everyone singing shallow. But also also I went to bed, but also I woke up. No, you weren't there. I couldn't hear you. Yeah. But I woke up, and I was like I think I'm never going to eat again. That was my feeling. I was like I think I've just done like parrot from any. This is permanent this permanent shape up. Never eat your drinking again. And I was like so sure next. And then the next day I felt that way for like probably the morning, and then the rest of it about it. We didn't eat any deserts. There was nothing. Sweet. Okay. And since getting home, I haven't had one like real dessert. Oh, I've only had dried mango packets from juice press. And then AVI avocado is last night. And I was like this isn't that great. So I'm only gonna have a few tables. I haven't yet like delves back into the world. Eventually said eventually going to just make it like. Yeah. Let me do it. It's not a habit. Here's the thing. That's her nursery weekend. So like, so. Yes. So have it. But like don't make it a habit. Well, the good thing is that will make it a habit that could be. Thing. Good thing is that we're going away skiing. So it's not like we have total access to wherever and like no access to. Yeah. We don't have access necessarily whatever we want like immediately, water know that. But like it's not like, I can just get any can't get can't post mates bag Nola slice. Like, I can't really can't. Well, I'll, but I live. Right exactly until night. We're having dinner with friends and one of the my friends who was like, I'm not getting a dairy. So I was like, oh, well that I guess means that we won't be having anything. Good now, we're still cheese plate 'cause like I want one. But but no desert, really, the desserts. Again, everything else is buying the desert is where I like. Yeah. We're great trip. Great trip. It was really fun. I'm excited. My bachelor next. Yes, I'm ready so excited to Maya. We're going to loom and go to Drexel Drexel Jackson. It's going to be self. Got to go work out really soon. Not wait no him on March April. Yes. So it really is a flying abide as a flying. I know it's wild. But if anybody has any questions about where we went. I mean, I mean, you know, we went to the places. Yeah. We went to all the obvious places. Like, there's nothing that you will be able to we had. No, there's no desserts really just like freely throwing around wanted ice cream. So go get it. Most of the fish was like, I mean, what's the food fish, and like some coconut rice. And honestly like it was good. Like, even though I'm having some issues. I think it's because of like the. The kitchen, the no I think like they don't have. Sanitation rules the same way that we do. Right. So, you know, it's all just flush. Right. I feel Viga. But yet the also the food was small like this another thing that I get reminded every time I go anywhere. That's not America. Yeah. It's like every other country has smaller portions like the amount that's in Pleat like much smaller. You're so you're eating less. Even if you order hundred you must get the platinum though the plantation. The fry contains are everywhere in their SOGA. The best meal is like when they have fish, coconut rice and the fry plan. I love it's gonna mazing combination of sweet they're so I bought one route. Yes, see those are so good. Also, those little plantation chips that were flat that we had on. But those were just like chips the boat was. Yeah. But those are really good the boat was like, but was was great. Gotta have a dare you have a day. Yeah. We're gonna have a boat dad. So do about day to day a bowtie is required bachelor party. Well, it just depends where we're going if you're going tropical. Yeah. I I don't know if the boat is going to be like a day might be like chill day. Right. Right. That's the other thing. Yeah. The bride is and what their desires are for the weekend. I mean, my desires are definitely I want this. How I feel I want one super like lit day and like one super night like I don't want them together. But I do want, you know, it's Howard. I want to go on and one go hunt at night. And then like have a really good dinner key that I want those three like strung across the three days, we Alexis working key to the two things. You can't put them back to back otherwise be afraid to get let. Yeah. Gotta save up later. It's like a Sunday wedding. But that. That's what you gotta have like without the Monday when you have to work on Monday. But it's like yet you have to have that middle space in between. So everyone can recover and then. Like, we're going to be right back because we have a lot of really really like meaningful emails that we wanna read that. We thought we got a ton of emails this week. So emails this week. And so so we'll be right back. We're going to go through them. You're going to want to hear these guys. So today's episode is sponsored by third love so third. Love is in actually, amazing bra and underwear company. I'm wearing one really just don't don't mind. Yeah. Oh my God. So third love is an amazing bra company. Also underwear also of under very nice. Yes. Also, very nice, but they're an industry leader. They've seventy different sizes. So including signature half sizes. So that's like a really really big deal. Because what you do go on third. Love you take your size quiz, which is unshared fit finder quiz is what they call it over ten million women have taken the quiz, and it's really really fun. And it's not just about like, see. Or whatever it's all about like Sammy just said the shape of your breasts diagrams, you could've act yours to the diagrams to see what you what would look good. I took the test. I got a bra, and I have to say I'm wearing a bra that has an under wire. And I haven't worn underwear bra in maybe three and a half years. And I'm so you this is the first under wire bra that I have and I feel very very comfortable in it. And it makes a huge difference. They have Cup sizes from a through h bans up to forty eight. But they invented half-cup sizing leak there the yesterday of half cups. I'm white guy. Yeah. Also, they have no tags. So there's no itchy situation. Like that you have to like cut off. And like, you know, it's great someone like, oh, your bra thing is out. They have ultra soft smoothing fabrics, lightweight super thin memory foam cups right now. I'm wearing one of them. And I don't feel like kind of feel pushed I really feel basing. Yeah. So third left knows is a perfect proffer everyone right now, they're offering our. Listeners. Fifteen percent off your first order, so go to third love dot com slash GS. Chee now to find your perfect bidding bra and get fifteen percent off your first purchase. That's third. Love dot com slash GS. For fifteen percent off today. And we're back. So guys this week is national eating disorder awareness week. And we got an an story from a listener. It's not a question. It's just a conversation. I guess about her story. And we thought that it would be really good to share. And if you guys have stories that you wanna share Email them to DC betcha dot com. I think is really good to hear from other people because the theme that's been emerging is that people like hearing like they're not alone and heard that, and I understand it like sometimes the things that we say could be very triggering from someone who is in who have like who's actually struggles for eating disorders. And I want to say that like, I I'm sorry that that's happening. And like, please, go see your doctor and speak to a specialist by no means or retry to do that. We're just trying to sort of speak our minds and hope that like people who feel that feel shame about how they're feeling that. We're that we all just kind of come together and realize that these thoughts aren't really our fault. Really, you know, and that we can be cured. And that there is hope at the end of the tunnel. Right. And I think it is good for people slightly. Yeah. Whatever I think it is just good for people to hear someone else's thoughts reflected because then they feel like, oh, I'm not that weird. Like, stop exactly, and it could be you could be on any anywhere in your in your life. And that you could have those thoughts about anything. So just wanted to say that. But do you want me or you to read this story you long? Okay. I will read the story. I've read fast, I'm gonna try to read fast. But also at a cadence. Hi, Sammy lean first of all. Thank you for your podcast talking talking about your own experiences and struggles with food and disorder. Enid? Eating makes me feel so much less alone. And all of this your voices are beautiful, and they shine light on an issue that has so many what a nice thing to say as you may know eating disorder awareness week. It's super awesome. And I've been really inspired by a lot of the content. I've been seeing on social media this week. I was listening to last Sunday's episode. You guys mentioned if we wanted to share our story that we could to you. And I've had the below written in my notes since the beginning of September. I wanted to put it in my own social media. But I'm afraid I still wanted to share it though. And I and I think it will make you feel a bit better. So this is her this is her note, this is a hard thing to share. But I think it's important to say because it's important to not feel loan, and I certainly have felt alone in dealing with it before body image is hard, it sucks. It's hard to find a balance in life between wanting to reach your goals. And being the best version of yourself that you can. Be and not getting swept up in something that you that can damage physically mentally and emotionally I've gone through phases. Where I've restricted in less than five hundred calories a day intermittently fasted in quotes upwards of twenty hours. We'd myself three times a day, everyday tracked. Every single morsel of food. A put my mouth down to the Graham down to the exact number of blueberries eight this. This led to this led to crippling. Did I have eight or twelve blueberries I lost count? How many calories if I had to guess are in that bite of kick that my friend is offering me, it was exhausting and only led to binging some symptoms of an order. Eating disorder can be extreme cravings one. Second for something salty the next something's the next for something. Sweet and going back and forth and back and forth, alcohol abuse over salting. Sleaze inning your food binging restricting feeling cold all the time and compulsive exercise at one point or another I've dealt with all of these in some variation. I remember when I read an article with that list on and thinking shit, I need to do something about this. I've been working on it for a year. Now giving myself grace allowing myself to eat more eat when I'm hungry. Eat good whole foods. I'm not going to say over it. I still getting when I have to miss a workout or over or overeat multiple days in a row same, but it's a process, and I really have made so much progress dealing with and I made so much progress. Dealing with something like this can make you feel very alone. Make you feel like you're the only one in the world who can't just have a piece of cake on their birthday or even just eat a piece of fruit. But you're not alone. So many people deal with the struggle every day. And I was tired of pretending like this wasn't a huge part of my life. So that was message. I wrote that on September eighth two thousand eighteen today. I'm still making progress I wanna full week without working out for the first time in about three years straight. I'm weaning off calorie counting. I'm winning off using the scale I'm working at not standing in front of the mirror, and pointing at every single thing. I hate I'm being kind to myself in my own head. Thank you for letting me share this because putting it out there into the world makes me feel a little more in control. Thank you for being beautiful and inspiring and for all the content you put out sincerely. Listener that was so nice. I honestly think that a lot of people should hear that. Yeah. And thank you for sharing your story. You should put that on social media. If you want to put it on social media, if it makes you feel any better. But the thing that stuck out about this to me is the thing that sort of like, everyone gets everyone misses about change or healing or improvement or any sort of goal trying to achieve and even is odds with the title of this podcast died starts tomorrow. So I think that like whenever we we want to change something about ourselves. Whether it's like, we want to work harder. We wanna like go on a diet. We want to heal some sort of mental issue or physical issue. There's this sort of belief that it's all just start tomorrow. And then it will be like from then on that's just getting of my perfect path. And I think that like that's the way I looked at things when I was starting Keita's like, oh, this the first day of my Non-sugar life like, and I like, I think that there's this belief like I. Just like try really hard starting tomorrow. And I will make this break in be different. From now on this is the first day of the rest of my life. Like, we've talked about this before it's like that is not a mentality that actually is feasible. Yeah. It's not doable. By for anyone. So looking at like not making improvements like that where it's like oh tomorrow. Tomorrow's tomorrow's the cure tomorrow cared Brevard thinking like, okay. This girl wrote right now it's March I this girl wrote this like five months ago, and she says like I'm still making progress. I went week without this. I'm waiting this weaning off this. That's like how you can really expect to make changes. Yeah. So like that way. It's not like one thing you do wrong. And then it's like this whole goal. That's what I was thinking is like the the way in which you could change for for whatever positive that you want for yourself is that you have to like leave room for failure. Because it's not actual failure. It's it's it's that's that's part of it. It's all part of it. It's like it's like you have to fuck up in order to like sort of real. It's okay. Like, it's all part of life. Like, we all like, that's something. I'm struggling with end learning at the same time as like accepting, you know, like the fluctuations of your weight or accepting some days going on vacation and learning how to jump back from that. Because to your point Andy time, my whole life. It's gonna became my dad's fucked up I gain weight right after that. It's not even during the became after. Because I've I felt I felt like I fell off the wagon or something, but it, but if it's part of your lifestyle, and how people say, no, it's not it's lifestyle. That's truly what it does become then you you sort of just get back, right? Like when have you ever met anyone who suddenly changed overnight? Like muss, you go for anything. I don't. Anyway, I just mean anything unless someone goes through a trauma, which can like trauma or a big moment. Like, a really really spectacular moment. Hit rock bottom. Thing right. Like like a or sobriety. You can I think maybe to change overnight. But I think most people in most situations where they have like a thing. They wanna work on your you notice the change over months years literally with sobriety. I'm just saying that like, it's there's always there might be a catalyst. But the change doesn't happen overnight. Well, it will there is like like you don't drink like you stop and then ever do Alaska chain. Yep overnight. But that doesn't mean that like us other coping mechanisms that like that day are not proud. Also like they that struggle. Never ends. Like that's lifelong. So you got up saying the bride? That's not even really apply here. I'm saying more. Like, let's say you feel like you are someone who like is combative or starts fights with people. And you say I wanna stop being that way. Yeah. Knocking to like endeavor do that. Again, the day. You are like you realize about yourself and like you wanna stop doing it? You're going to like probably have times where you have to like where you do it again. You learn a lesson from that you then like overtime like maybe in six months, you'll be like, oh, she's been much less combative lately. Like, it's not like, those just whatever it is. Whether that's the change or it's like, oh, I wanna I wanna be more like two devoted to my job and try harder like less lazy like your bosses and gonna notice that you worked really hard like Monday, the start that like they're going to notice it in a month. They're like, oh, she's been trying much harder. Right. So I think that that's just how it applies for everything. And I don't know. I just think looking at change that way as much more realistic way of looking at things, and I think also. So people can when you look at us like when you listen to us speak like Weir's zero percent perfect euro percent like you can literally list like if I go back and listen to the first episode to see like sort of the slow changes that we've had like made in the way that we can do this podcast. You know what I mean? It's not like overnight. We're really good at it. It's like, you know, it's just over time. We've learned how with practice and fucking up and doing better and learning from those ups and those downs, and like you sort of just you a slow thing. And then it becomes a thing. Right. And if it's not slow than it's just like real, it's wrong. It's not real. But I want to say a lot of things like a lot of these. I've always wondered about myself like I like I'll look in the mirror. Like do. I have disordered eating might have. I had an eating disorder that. I don't know about like that. I've never had actually. Diagnosed it's funny that you're saying this because I got a DM that literally exactly I'm going to read it. Visit exactly what you're saying. Yeah. And it really resonated with me. I was like we have talked about this. Okay. Next high next time, you have a dietitian or specialist on as get as a guest on. Would you consider talking about body just more disorder? I've been curious about this for years. I've always suspected I've had issues in the department. I've kind of always felt like here's a sentence. I've kind of always felt like I had the mentality of someone with an eating without the actual drive to pursue one. If that makes sense when I read that I like almost like through my phone across the room in recognition like, yeah. I was like, yes. So jobs jobs jobs for the phone. Yes. Google a ton. But I feel like this is something no one really talks about. And I can't be the only one loss. Confused. I feel like I have this. But I'm just not sure what different sheets by just more disorder from the general societal pressures that affect us all in somewhere. Another. Thank you for your consideration. So good a save that for Tracy, but you brought. It up. So we still can get Tracy to talk about this. I think we are going to have a dedicated episode discuss this. But just a preface it in eighth. Maybe seventh grade I was in camp. And this girl said to me we were standing on my she literally said to me it lean you have body just morphine. And I was like, thank you. I literally said, thank you. So you're saying that I'm skinnier than I think that I am or I think that I that. I think that I look I was like what a compliment. And that thought I was like fuck there's something wrong with me. And even just reading the way that she's talking about it. Like the way that it's weighing yourself three times a day have done it like counting every single calorie of everything. How many just get anxious how rasping berries did? I just eat. I can't remember it. Can we go back? Can I go in the garbage and read the label like I've done that kind of shit, and like those that those are not it's not a healthy. I mean, speaking to the second girl who's thing we just read. Yeah. I have a distinct memory as not even I was an adult almost when I was a freshman in college. I decided one day like I just was like I'm not eating anymore. Like literally like try to give myself an eating disorder. I swear to God. Like, I just Sigler. Remember, not going to skipping classes on Monday being like today's the first day of me being like, so so skinny, and I was like I can't go to class because I have to conserve energy, and I have to avoid owed God, and I did. And like I literally till like six PM. And I was I starved yourself till six. Yeah. To wash it. And the next day. I was like I don't know how to do this again. And like, I just I couldn't do it. It was non possible like, but but but if you think about it, it's like it was the first was like freshman year of college. I'm like the first time out of my house that like this is even like like I have control over my own food. Like, I remember like throwing away every single thing from my from my own my fridge at wasn't healthy. And then like, but honestly like that lasted about two two days. Yeah. I mean college can really like I mean, I've just memories. I remember talking about how like like, wouldn't it be great to like have like having to be so skinny, and we would like joke about it. We would joke about it. And like it wasn't funny. No ought not with. We would be like we're so proud. We don't eat it because it's it's like insecurities, and it's like pressure societal pressures just like being forced on girls. Don't really know better at that time, right? And. Like, you're just like that's so that like gives me the chills makes me so upset because we've never actually never shared that with all felt it. And we've all said it and we've we're not by any means trying to. People who suffer? This. No, not at all. It's like like on health. I look back now. And I'm like, oh my God. I can't believe that that was like something. I thought was something I should do as a solution to feeling like bloated. And also just also like fifteen this idea the second semester. I the Mestre though, I lost like fifteen pounds, my freshman year of college. And I remember like being I remember my lowest weight ever was the last day of finals freshmen in the first semester. And then I remember I remember it is. So remember the number coordinate? Oh, yeah. I remember the number trying to get back there. So I actually have gotten close. But but then I went home for like the winter break, and like I like, my friend ice like smoke every night. And I that like I was not eating in college. Yeah. And literally every night of the winter break, I remember standing at my fridge a house. You know, there's like real lots of and I would eat gains gain probably all the back that just just one bad habit. Coated on top of another. I gained all that back that month. And then it was like sorority rush and everything and gains like was like heavier, and that's why did that like, I'm not. Yeah. Yeah. I really believed. I could just never eat again. I'm just saying like girls that in college during the time that we were in college because there's so much less like positively around like an acknowledgement and talk about like that eating disorders are actually a little bit more common than you think. Like back, then we're just a bunch of girls together sort of promoting it too. Each other because you asked I was like, how do I lose weight like honestly, just don't eat. And like you have to go Rosamund like somebody else would be like Gallic, just just, you know, sleep for really longtime wake up has one meal and then go out, and and I'd be like, okay. And then no, I would try that. And then binge leader. Because like I do. Because you can't just never eat again. Like now, that's really the thing. You can't do this. But my point is that it's just like such an unhealthy environment of like, bad, badmin- tallies. And like just really like a self Illing sort of cycle of bad advice. Everybody Ling having an eating disorder with something that I should be proud of an aspire to. Like, you know what? At least those girls being disorders are thin. But could you imagine one person being like, I'm happy the way, I am actually. I could only say, no. But can you imagine somebody like? Norm. Like, your the size that you think was healthy. How that you are that you were heavier, which would your normal you saying like. Imagine. I mean, then no. But that that's me to me. It's like you not to zero found on your body or green non hot enough. Right. Yeah. Like, you're not hot enough. If you if you had any fat like that's not something I've ever been. And that's that's right. Gary thing like, I have never ever been something. It's not like I like a malate in life fat person. Like, I'm like, a always heavy always big. Yeah. It's like that was just this thing. I was like I gotta get to that. And for anything takes like, it just wasn't going to work. I'm for me, my response to knowing that like, I can't be skinny is eat, more and. And. Getting I might as well enjoy this party and be as as friendly as I normally am I need to drink more in order for me, not to hear boys. Make fun of me. I need to I need to drink more. So I can forget it like literally that and then you drink more, and you gain more weight, and then you eat more house at night. And then it's like a whole fucking thing. And it doesn't stop until someone says I'm happy the way that I am. But like no one does that until you're thirty and or whatever twenty six twenty five I no I lost for the wrong way. Here's the thing. Like, it doesn't even matter like what age people disorders when they're sixty five. Like, no. I just mean I mean later in life when you gain some perspective. Well, I don't think it's only about later in life. I also like the culture now it's up to like when we let's say we had been this age in like two thousand and ten I don't think that like it was culturally popular, watch the housewives. I've been watching the house as a C and you notice the. Change in what they think looks good. So the even Shannon Madore is like she's very very skinny. But she has no curves. The first time she comes on. And she's like, I don't understand. I've never worked out in a day in my life. Everyone is like all you need to do is be rail thin and now and now I'm supposed to be working out and curves, I've been working my whole life to just get super thin knotty. And now everybody's promoting curves. I mean, I'm like thinking like great for me. But I out there. But like, but at the same time understand like all of a sudden in the world, slow bull, weather curvy. Or or rail thin is hot the point. Is that like it shouldn't it shouldn't matter like, we shouldn't the way we wanna look should not be dictated by what other people tell us. It should be dictated by what is healthy absolute my healthy. I mean, nutritionally and mentally like the our our mental. Emotional religion with food being healthy is really the most important thing because that's kind of shit that kills you. I know so let's take a quick break. And we'll be back to play some games. This episode is brought to you by cove. So anyone who's had a migraine knows that they're the absolute worst. We actually have a few migrants offers in the office. You were like always bitching about their migraines. And they tried this product, and they had a great experience with it. I believe that they're so painful just the way that they described them. I do get bad headaches. But I don't know if they'd be classified as migrants, but now it's a little easier to treat your migrant from the comfort of your own home. Thanks to cove, basically cope starts out with a simple consultation by licensed physician, and then the prescription that they decided best for you sent directly to your door. So you don't even need to read and link pick it up and put your credit card in the slot. And like in there for three seconds until they like beep you out and the people who did it in our office said that they really like the experience. So what happens is you get this very personalized consultation with the doctor, and they create tailor your individual course of treatment. So it's like totally custom totally personalized to whatever is is hurting you and then. Then cove will break down everything you need to know about. So they're really educating you on why you're having migrants and migraine treatment and everything is Dr supervised. So a doctor's license to practice medicine in the state, you live in will be the one who prescribes your monthly medication, and it's FDA approved. So that's really that's really all you can ask for an FDA approved. Medication? I totally agree. So if you suffer for migraine the last thing, you need is to have to wait to see your doctor with cove. There's finally way to get the help you need when you need it. And when you use our special link, you'll get the first month of treatment for free go to with cove dot com slash diet. That's W. I T H C O V E dot com slash d I e with cove dot com slash diet. We're back. We are back. Okay. Aims are here. Okay. So this week we have any lean themed. Would you rather have been like watching her Instagram she'd like fucking on a garden here, but I can barefoot Contessa, but I'm wearing so you're not. Yes. So I've been making this chicken that I mentioned you guys people are making it, and I'm like in shock actually, amazing because I don't put like panko breadcrumbs. I'd just finished it with coconut coconut flour. I really wanna make fans ride in oil so easy. But so he's guest only once fish and Kelly flora who are left tell you. She's a listener, she's a listener. Your guest, colder guests, so yes. And then I've been making a lot of or not. And it's gotta try this keys not to eat too. Too much. That's a key to everything. I do not know, I know. But like you make like bombs. That's how I do. So here's the question. What is it for thirty days? Would you rather? Only checking flower, obviously clarifier Neil Cates. Play pasta without having tried it. That's my that's mom. He's asking how I. People have. Okay. So it's funny. When you say, honestly, people ask people ask me. So this is how we make it. Although everybody in the office has been making it in very different ways. Like somebody's back told me she does our new GI contest, we should do it in the off. But we should have everybody makes their own recipe saying, and then we share it. Okay. So this is the way that I do it. I honestly adding sprinkle trader Joe's cheese. But honestly don't think it makes difference because the it almost tastes a little cheesy. People ask people have been asking. I'm how do you make an on sticky? The infancy of the nookie is sticky. But the key is to make it like like look pan-fried on the sides and separate them. So based on the amount that I'm making us a pan that is that can lay them flat, and you can separate them. So I put an put them in. I do the water technique and people don't like that. But I do what I put the water and it put the. Cover on evaporate. The water fully completely completely. It's the water technique. That's what they say in the bag. You have to put a quarter Cup of water in the pan and put a couplet over evaporated entirely, the water evaporates completely and by the time evaporates the nuclear cooked. However, they're not Brown. So so what I do is. I had a little bit butter and add a little butter, and then I like fucking like emerald live. Bam. I like will will will flip the pan, you know, doing the flipping motion. I go get this not like at a certain time at trader Joe's out wild. Now. Go time, maybe you flipped you flipped the Bram like with your risk. You learn how to flip it, and it really makes a difference in flip a few times you separate them. And then you let them sit because then they'll get Brown and delicious, and then you just eat it and eat it, obviously with a little Greek yogurt on the side 'cause I've been everything and sour cream, and what what are other ways. So a lot of people do like say JR. And or somebody does sage and butter. Okay. Brown. Butter is a marketing technique. I don't know it's on like random and using trendy places. Like, it's Brown sugar with butter. No, just Brown butter. No. I think it's Brent sugar with butter. Don't know is it butter the has been browned exactly as Paul show. It's so it's like, I don't know. It's just thing say Jim Brown butter. I think it is a thing. But it's not it sounds like something that I would really enjoy with pesto you could make pesto. I put I put my Nour's marinara sauce on it money, not about Raoult's marinara. Yeah. That, but I get the different kind. But I really like this is my boss. What about just butter? Yeah. Possum? But I like to dip shit and ship. That's something I need to dip. But so once the other day the chicken cutlets? I made a little bit of nukes. And then I do spinach with like sauteed cherry, tomatoes, delicious, don't even put any salt on it. You don't need it. So Lisi for cooking lately. Just like don't even I write in my journal. I Mark every single day. Like my goal is to cook for four days four or five days a week and market down every day that I do I'll still eat from home. But like, I just put a salad together like cooking. That's not coke. Yes. It is. That's preparing it doesn't matter. It's the same thing. It's ordering out. No. But I mean cooking is in like, creating I don't don't force yourself because over time you will cook. That's what I've learned is that, you know, I went gung ho fit in the cookie Moodley. But that's fine. The other day I wanted to cook so bad, but I was like fucking I'm getting sushi. And you know, what it was fine. Otherwise, I would have to cook for tonight. So I'm going to do that we made. We made noodle Kogel with by hand and for chevette digits. Oh, I would love noodle kogo. Although I would prefer potato cogo. I love noodle kogo. There's nothing like lock. Tito. Okay. Guys. You know, how are always talking about therapy. And how important it is for your health? It's not just about what you eat. It's about your mental health. And I think that there's a lot of people who just there's a lot of confusion out there, where do I find therapist wave even have time for one? How do I find a good one? What if we don't work out we found there's a really really great company called better help. It's a solution that connects you with a professional counselor in a safe and private online environments. What makes it super super convenient? There have licensed counselors who specialized depression anger, family, conflicts, LGBT matters grief, relationships, anxiety, so so much so many things that runs the gamut of all of the possible things that we could all need Sarah before and again that you don't need to be a crisis to seek help. I think that talking to someone who has an unbiased but educated. Set of skills that can help you specific skill who can help you talk through anything that you're dealing with whether you're super happy or your super sad, or it doesn't need to be this drama. But it always it helps you sort of become a grounded individual. And I think that's really good for your long term health. They have there's so many different ways to talk to a therapist. You can tax. You can check and phone. You can video chat you can talk to them within twenty four hours. It's available on mobile web, Android Io's apps. You can schedule video and phone sessions. It's generally weekly unless again, you're therapist wants to schedule more it's really tailored to what you need again, so professional against so convenient and affordable and best of all died starts tomorrow listeners. Get ten percent off your first month with the discount code D, S T. So why not get started today? To better help dot com slash D. S T simply fill out the questionnaire to help them assess your needs and get matched with counselor. You will love that's better. Help dot com slash D. S T. Let's do an audience non scale wins read it. Okay. The audience member completed the Disney Princess half marathon this past weekend with two of her best friends growing up. She says growing up coaches who told me that I can't run or wasn't good at running which made an extra empowering across the finish as ING. Yeah. That's like a real scale win real. Non scale when what's your non scale one of the week? I mean, my nounce go in was honestly gonna be like the management of my my eating and Columbia. Yeah. Because that was a big stressor for me. But I'm trying to think of any others. That's a scale win. Okay. No, that's literally, really. He wanted to scale. It undermines the I know the essence going. Let's think I read a really good book. Oh, we which one the power guys. You gotta read this is that was life changing. Okay. It's basically like a story about okay, let's say like imagine if every woman in the world, just suddenly like developed the ability to send electric shocks threw their hands. So that the result of that is that women become the physically stronger gender tells the story of the society where women about how women become physically stronger as told by one woman. No, it's fiction. I know, but like character it's their few main characters, but it shows all the different aspects of society, like women become dictators women. Sala GIS leaders. Yeah. There's a pot like tells the story of what is it like the ruminate Komi? Comedy combination. And it was just an incredible book. I've been thinking about it ever since because it's like it really just makes you sort of think poses like interesting questions about like morality. But it's not like, it's just weird. Because it's like you see how all the things that people say about how like men, obviously, there's a patriarchy are physically stronger gender, which is why they're dominant in society. The story is showing what would happen if women were like, you'd think like, oh all be so nice. But the kind of message was like well of women were physically stronger gender like you could have kind of the same things happening. Yeah. Women's women women like fighting wars. Women running religions women running organized crime. And like, it's just great. It's really really great the power by alderman. You gotta read it. I read banker's wife. It was really really good. God. It was like, you know, just crazy shit. I have not even get it into it. But everybody should read it felt like murder. Conspiracy and the government funny and international conspiracy. It's always it's boring when it's just national one major little a little this one. So true quickly. My nounce going to do with vacation. However, it's that I didn't even this is actually monumental. Just wait, I didn't even think twice about putting on a tank top. In fact, one day. I almost put on a t-shirt, and I was like, no. And I put on a tank, I we're taking up for every single occasion up your instant didn't even think about it up your your tank top. We'll because everyone was like why were they like my lonely, Hugh will everyone was like I would have said. Okay. Well, you should've been there. I wasn't there. But anyway, so I didn't even I only not that. I realize it to leader. I was like, wait a minute. Like, I didn't even care think twice. And. Was so it was honestly, maybe feel so good. I almost cried. But we're the tank it was amazing. Okay. Now for our last segment, we have an audience workout song of the week. So tons of people sent in Arianna grounding songs, but we're going with Rachel Chicago. Who sent in the entire thing next album? Thank you. Rachel, Rachel all from Chicago. I wanna know what is the best workout song from like really just what is the best. We're gets from Iran. I don't know it that well enough. But okay. Well, you guys should let us know. Let us know who I love I can't get over her Casey moss grades. I haven't listened yet. You gotta listen than our the song. What a world it. Okay. I cried, historically, my heart. Is it like? I don't know. I cried for like five minutes. I'll be was looking at me. Like, really, you know, what to do. It wasn't Bali. I was smiling, and grinded you listen to it. We got back from vacation before we went big Asians. I was also have cry. Let's see we got back case. Okay. Well, that's great. So everybody song good cry. And if you don't cry Sam and be like, you got problems. Thank you so much for listening today. No, it was like a little bit. You know, touchy, touchy subjects all around. We said some controversial things. But yet. Yeah. I would say, yes. And casual yell the things we said about like eating disorders. I think we're very kind of. It's all saying, you, should you should like we're just saying this is real this is what apple don't want like if we were to go to rehab this stories you would hear now, I agree which. This is my story. Not good. If anyone has stories that they wanna share, and they feel a little bit like too scared to share them on their own profiles. And you want to test it out here. Please send it to us. It's at batches dot com. And again, also after we asked people to rate reviews of scribe, I got dams about people. Yeah. Like, this is the review I laughed and all that. And I was I was honestly so touched so again league keep doing that. Please keep remaking raining reviews on itunes for us. Tell a friend about the podcast, tell them if you like it, tell them if you if you hate it, tell them to listen for themselves and make their own opinion. But but you should review it because that really helps us it helps us derive the continent helps us do more also Louis. No if you like all the new. Shit. We doing on incest story because we have Carly. She's a content creator putting up a lot of the stories. We all talk about them. She puts them up all the polls, and we love them so much, and so please let us like that to we love you so much. I'm at eight lean and Sammy's that Sammy with an eye with heart heart spillover, meet mine just want to. Very confusing not but okay. So that we love you all. Bye.

Sammy migraine Jim Brown Columbia FDA Bekasi Beck Rachel Chicago skiing Chou Tracy Rex Drexel Drexel Jackson America Alaska apple
Chapter 24: "And The Winner Is...Gary Oldman", With Brother Sean

Voices Film & Television – A Blog Dedicated To Reviewing, Critiquing…Celebrating The World Of Film & Television

51:27 min | 3 years ago

Chapter 24: "And The Winner Is...Gary Oldman", With Brother Sean

"Coming up best picture will be open book. We're list actor seriously remissed actor. We missed actor. We missed actor a gary. Oldman we see it all right. Let's play gary. God damnit Ladies and gentlemen what's going on what's up what's up. i'm kinsella this brother sean. How you doing west doing good shawny dude. So what are we doing watching the oscars or listening. We're listening to them and Let's see trying to find gary men. So gary oldman just one long long overdue. Long overdue the oscar for darkest night. Did you see darkest nights. No i didn't actually get to see it yet. I've been waiting to shoot. Gary oldman fan and You know it was like winston churchill. Yeah me too much absolutely. It's been that way on my mind. Perhaps you can provide mcglynn offset view the british people. What is your mood is it Conference called tau and very some people said little schools. Those causes the ones fighting for right. Now let me ask you this. If the worst came to pause and andy enemy to appear on those streets above. What would you do for a fascist. I with everything we can around hundreds if we must strength by straight another tape piccadilly awarded by prajit to we might if we If we could nice get vide- favorable terms for mr his la if we enter into a peace to jim right now. What would you say to that. Never who you think you though no never said out. Speak very gracious. Captain of the gate to is a upon this earth. Death pseudo late. And how kitten man facing notes for the ashes of his father us and the temple of his gods crying right blabber lot. We don't have to get used to it. What stop precision. It's nice job okay. This breaking news that It's the best you can find his. This is breaking news from my basement. Gary oldman just won the best look finally wins an oscar. Here we go you ready. And the winner. is gary oldman. This is the first skirt and second nomination for gary oldman. He received his first nomination for his leading performance in tinker tailor soldier spot. Well my my deepest thanks to the academy and its members for this off this glorious prize. I oh this and so much more to so many i have. I've lived in america for the longest time. And i am deeply grateful to her for the loves and the friendships. I have made and the many the many wonderful gifts it has given me my my whole my life hood my family oscar the movies such as their their their power captivated a young man from south london and gave him a dream and douglas. Penske my dear dear friend and brother you have helped keep that dream alive job right. Thank you for this twenty years from to work together but it was well worth the white. Thank you kazoo. Lucy divy for your for your artistry. Thank you everyone. Working title and universal. Focus for your herculean efforts and support on this film. Thank you eric fellner tim. Bevan lisa. Bruce anthony mccartan danny and her amazing team of course gmo. I would like to just like salutes. Winston churchill who accompany on what can be described as an incredible journey and my wife giselle for traveling that road with me and being at my side alfie. Golly charlie journal name my remarkable remarkable fellow nominees. The my my dear friend of the sale. And i'm not gonna obviously. I'm not going to win the ski. I would like to thank my mother who is older than the oscar. She is nine thousand nine years young next birthday. She's watching the ceremony from the comfort of her sofa. I say to my mother. Thank you for your love and support. Put the kettle on. I'm bringing sca Be was sweet. Gary oldman winds about chime in fucking so many good movies on my insane since it's insanity Leeann one of my favorites leon and True romance romance drexel favorite gary old movie. It's tough in definitely. You know. I'm a big fan of professional or leon definitely Grew up with that. Yeah yeah you know his over the top dirty cop. Bring me wine you gammit from total mania to come back to mania. Yeah yeah yeah yeah. I don't have time for this. Mickey mouse ball. Chatty you like beethoven remote site fan. I love into love mozart. Supporting characters like drexel. Obviously in general manager axel drexel's is right by april l. Thanks no things got scare scared. Let's see here ready to negotiate. You've already given up your shit. I'm still a mystery. You but i know exactly what you're way to ask is coming from april this motherfucker. He's coming on like care in the world and who knows maybe he don't. Maybe this fool's bad you don't got to worry about nothing. He just one month before is set down. Here you've been in the room with hanging out you can even bother to look. You just been clocking me. My favorite is jackie from State of grace. Oh god great. That was the first time that i saw him. And i and you guys yeah totally because he played it so well i did. I know him before that. No i didn't i didn't know who he was and i watched that and i was just rocked the rough and tumble west. He guys greasy hair and he just lived the war. It's got to work until eleven we can holler after that commute you the club by twelve. Wanna be sure you okay feel flipped up. Gotta make a pickup grant. Relics got some problems. Gusset battery park fucking. Beat me frankie for a little time off working on. So parades coming up in. That'd be nice. You may kate. Though celebrate saint patrick's day again. See the parade won. I heard some. I heard frankie steve. You're talking about. I heard you got repeated every fucking thing you saw shoot you. Forget is shit now. Is you wash your month or so. You go so where. I saw like later on. I would end up seeing So that was ninety salida ron. I would see sydney. Nancy and watch True romance but i knew him better because true romance i saw after i saw the professional and he was just this juggernaut of acting exactly and he was doing the method rate. It seemed like he was totally immersing himself turning immersing himself right and high caliber high-calibre acting put your to the grass. The crime the insects. I just fell in love with me instantly. Became one of my favorite actors instantly brought it. Every family in loves the fried. Everything's alright thank god calm. Why don't you leave them along. He said go back inside. When you see the performance that he gives us winston churchill. He's you can't recognize unrecognized. I've i've seen clips. I haven't seen the actual movie unbelievable. And then when you see him acting and he gets angry you see gary and but just glimpses of him. Fun minister fations. Who's free of reservations about unnecessary sacrifice. When there is an available alternative multiple energy. Italy has offered to mediate peace talks between ourselves germany. I've already indicated that provided liberty independence of the british empire's short. We would consider any proposal. Winsor with hitler holding the way pad you really think you would on around diversity and independence. It would be an interest to do so because the thing to do is to show that maniacs that he cannot conquer their and for that we need army. Ken rotel johnson. The germans reach the not before when we get our boys off that beats i take full responsibility really guess. Just the reason. I sit did this. He embodies him so well in the mannerisms and the way he speaks. he's it's gary oldman playing winston churchill. I don't care if he's playing mission or gordon. He's still great so he's he's folks great. Now it's funny. Because i saw like some teeny movie last night and a teen sci fi movie just happened to be on. It was called like from here to the earth or something about a kid that got born on moore's and he was a part of the moving. It's actually okay okay. He's done some not so good thing. Everybody everybody has. Yeah i mean. There's definitely things i'm sure he'd regret like but you know it's not always easy for him and hollywood is very as an actor. You have to keep working as an actor in hollywood's very just men. They're they're they're not easy on people that are growing older. You know if you're not twenty five good looking good lock. Your notes hit the bricks and the next person waiting in the ten thousand. That's it right immortal. Beloved mortar beloved. Yeah he played eight tobin. Fuck mcadam at. That was a good movie f- meaning. What kind of hepatitis. Esi see swiss. Y you he's good movie gray movie. Jfk favorite movies. Oswald oswald severely. Even you stand up. This is just police. Have their man because he's really really said anything can move just like oswald to prop them up and drag him around shoot him seriously. Probably during the shoot. 'em we know of oswald rains until i know right only me give me started with that. Whole thing Dracula dracula colours. What are we talking about her name college. I am cross oceans of ood mm-hmm movie but cana wasn't probably not the best choice. I don't think so the Jonathan harker yeah. They should have gotten a british english person to play. I saw an interview or no. It was then backstage and it was. Gary oldman yelling at winona ryder and kano reeves saying you have to react to me. Okay i'm playing dracula but i ha- it's not enough that i'm playing him. You have to look at me. Like i'm dracula. I have to feel that you're afraid of and i'm not looking at a wall problem ended. You know he was like calling them out on it and they were staring in their in their twenties. Were really young and they were terrified of this guy but he was so intense so intense. He was in basquiat right. I love your taste. The love you taste to always loved your taste though teased as always been impeccable. I think we always see on the same lines. I think we appreciate the same things pretty. We were talking about blade runner out blade runner fucking classic that we both love and and yes twenty forty nine blown away man blown away totally rock face off. Yeah i was honesty. I think we might have talked about this. I was reluctant to see it in the movie theater. I really want to see. Because i did not want letdown. I agree because right. How do you follow up. Bladerunner possible exact. Same thing with me. I was terrified. I was like if i watch this. And i don't like it. It's just going to ruin so much for me. Until i had it for a little while here at the house and i waited four or five weeks to watch it finally and then within ten minutes. You're sucked i did. Some some are headed for like a week or two and just like i got. I'll watch i'll watch it. I'll walk and you know. I got to watch like five minutes and i got interrupted and i was angry and this is going to be a good sign. It's a very beautiful. Movie is gorgeous gorgeous. Movie which roger deacons won the oscar tonight point another underappreciated artists like gary oldman have you look at the roger deakin movies. They're insane cinematography. Talking the ones that can remember shushing shawshank just view beautiful and sky fall sky. Fall people sky fall that he that was a gorgeous. The best looking bond movie ever eights my favorite cinematic -ly totally i'll i'll put clips on and just very visual. Just watch it. It's like a. It's like a moving photograph. It's amazing in the whole end. Bartman of sky fall and in the fog and things are blowing up and it's only lit by like the burning of sky fall in the background. Perfect and then he's underneath the ice and the fire of sky fall is above and genius photography even just at the scene when they first put the sky fallen. It's it's dark but like light and overcast and it's you see like the the burnt up dried ran sky fall definitely and that's the place where bond comes from is that that was his. That was his parents house. Okay because his parents died that was where he was from. That's where he was from so he was orphaned why they were supposedly in a skiing mountain avalanche accident. Something like that. Do we find that other and believe in inspector which barely barely walks. Good not yet. They alluded to his father. Being you know like a turncoat. And that he sold secrets and stuff like that. I think okay okay. But you know i don't know if they cleared up inspector because i never really made it through the whole movie. I seen was rumors of his father. Maybe or his mother being an agent. I think it was his mother. They took that end okay. Mother was providing information for the british government. Okay so yeah. They were both killed when he was a kid and orphaned. So the groundskeeper. That's why he knew the groundskeeper still raised him. He was cold and bitter and he left to the military and he was. He went into a trap thing. I remember from yesterday watching it. He went into a trapped door. underneath sky. fall state led out into the field and led Leads underground out to field into a cab into a church. Almost like an old church worship. Yeah because it's a manner or a castle sky fall so that would be the old church i it comes from a privileged upbringing. Yes okay james bond which makes sense. I can't remember it was a book. I read because i read a lot of the fleming novels. Oh time ago okay. Okay and he had like a like an old role because they kind of kept move in the movies i asked her. Martin wasn't it in the movies pretty much. Yeah so the pierce brosnan days and then they jaguars and bmw's never got into anything. Daniel craig them down with peers. I just didn't not infield pierce. Well i didn't yeah me neither. I didn't feel them. And i thought that when he was a little younger they were pushing for him but he was he was i remember. He was locked in that remington steele contracts that he couldn't do it and that's when they got timothy dalton which worked i thought dalton was intense. Send you. yeah. I thought he worked timothy dalton. I did too. I agree with you. Sean connery nobody. Is overly sean. There's only one bond. And that is sean connery for me. There's only one man. Yeah that's it that's race. That's how that's how i was raised. My dad said simply firmly directly. There's only one that's what my mom says. That's bond roger moore movie came on. She turned it off out of the room. Breath alabama thousand current. Mrs uh so via range. I admire your luck. Mr bond james bond mr bond. I suppose you wouldn't catch them raising. And i have no objection idea at that one or two more movies. Yeah it's a different angle. We grew up with roger moore as being on a timeframe but but he was not. You know it wasn't yeah. He's making jokes of everything. He wasn't even bond little. Gary oldman and winona ryder from dracula threat. Cool the only reason to watch the movie. Besides francis coppola believes it to you. They nail boom. You suck as an actress. She's better now stranger things than she ever was before but ski me not gary owned this movie. Oh install gary gary and just surrounded by weakness except for hopkins maybe the guy in the and in the jails spider guy. Tom waits some weights. Tom waits yeah. Good talking to you plate of maggots of i mean i guess that's the side to side bar that you have to push this young talent into some of these movies to get the funding to get him and me. I agree i mean and know that All right we're gonna take the guy from bill. And ted's great adventure that girl. Those of beetlejuice seem to like she's mcginnis obliged others. Heather's girl she's the thing you know l. Listen francis get you give those will give me your movie. We'll give you the funding. So i mean kano supposedly nicest sweetest guy in the world but not quite good as neo. Yeah there is a bite by. You could accuse him of over action. That's just gary wade into shadow of this one. Owner's worst line in the movie. Coming up wait for people ladies and gentlemen winona ryder okay. So whatever you know away from all this. I know it's it's dad's not mess. I don't know what the you've been up till. okay johnny. But listen her johnny weir together. Remember that i forgot about that. You johnny since he had a tattoo of her on steady turned into wino- winona forever wino- he ran the fuck outta of there. Stole my wallet. Saxon homing is gone seemingly. Wouldn't you love to smoke a cigarette break. You say the wording we're to have a. We're going to have to take a break in a second. But i just wanna play you guys a little seen as something. If you haven't seen state of greece you're stupid. Nah i'm just kidding. I love you all and but my favorite. My favorite in the film is gary and jackie jackie. Jackie flannery. looks like it's time for kicks. Getting koi coy. We don't call it. That call what he said. Of course what he said of sitting right to say what. What are you asking. The influence puck is stupid jack. You don't wanna fuck them up again but what he said it is what he said he said if we didn't know if we did did call if we said we. He said if we didn't if he did jack every time we listen this jesse jackson. If we been called resigned what he says she did. Call what you can stuff as fucking retarded. Nothing personal virginia stupid. That not what he says. Said it did call if we call go otherwise known right. Listen he said if you could call you the lack of total of each you. I love you to -bility nine jack. That's the gary yell and and who does that. Gary oldman won his first oscar tonight. Yes congratulations gary. We're going for a smoke break rock. We'll talk to you soon. We will you know gone but you'll go but you it's to be a second. Here goes the second three to see. We're back back. Said said really back. Quick quick quick too long. Not too long We got here. So we're celebrating. Gary it seems serious. Name gary's fucking dim right gary's night. What kind of night is he avenue. I liked this amounts for the store reminds me bait off. Aggressed crawling couldn't crates out. Grant shocking blows the doors boy so uncontrolled on man. We don't even know what to do. We said god shucks. You don't like beethoven. Want you messing over. choose like that. Get my flow so belleville. But after his to be honest he does tend to get its wife toss joint touch the apartment even explaining it. Just a great movie. He's so he's central to. Who central to is natalie. And leon sean renault domino right. Thank you But it's not the same movie without no he's like to gary. The driving force of the movie the arch nemesis. He's fuck i mean gary oldman's terrifying. Even the other cops are just what he's gonna do. Know these top in aimal nitrates and is that what that is. What does that do. I guess it's supposed to be like Like a immediate like rush high into your rate up play you some. It's running around rogue He is trying to kill The last surviving member of he's looking for our hunting her. The last member of the family the may have witnessed something but he can't. He can't track her down. Because leon the cleaner is hiding her there's a director's cut from europe. That is more mature for the smart audience for the people who need stuff spoon fed to them than don't find you know controversial subjects a upsetting and they can handle them. If i feel like for adults you know the director's cut. There's no reason it should have been cut but americans are a little bit wacky self puritanical so when things are going wrong and he gets frustrated he goes boys. Leon i have a lot of respect for your business. Tony when you've killed for us in past we've we've always been satisfied and that's exactly why today is going to be very very hard for me. I hope you'll excuse my moon. My man killed right here and the chinks tell me that the hitman was kind of danger italian. We figured that. Toni my know something way. As more a few hours later a little twelve year old girl comes into my office armed to the teeth with the firm intention of sending me straight to the moon and you know who came and got him in the middle of the afternoon right there in my building. Same italian di di to meet him. You could see his smile. It's just important. Yeah you have to see these things. I wanna do a video end of this podcast because you're talking about moving picture so you want to show people what you're talking about so it's it all depends on the way i describe it but the audio clips are important but there's nothing like watching these clips no not at all. Yeah you're watching. Luke basan direct. Gary oldman in johm renault. And natalie portman in this incredible incredible performance Wasn't what we're looking for. But there's there's one line that he delivers here that it's Fantastic you never really forget it. Bring me everyone. Everyone that's intense. Yeah no easing fucking juggernaut man. He's incredible love that line. Goals going to break out of his head he he. He was on fire in in the nineties. Man i think it was a great decade from and then in the two thousands. He comes out with being a commissioner gordon. Right for the batman. Batman movie yet for the for the nolan trilogy and he was so spot on with that mustache and the way that he composed reserved that. Because usually you know right. But gordon is like straight arrow genero rally composed totally eve is great in the reserve was perfect. I wanted to end with saying congratulations to gary -gratulations. Gary definitely definitely. And it's my brother. Sean thank you for being here. Man you welcome in a guerrilla would you again. I'll i'll do it again would you. would you be into a yeah. Okay cool let's It was fun to fucking. Have you here be here. Yeah i want to pick your brain more. We could start earlier next time. Tiffany start earlier. we were going to talk to you about blade runner this time and then we realized it was the night of the academy awards so overhead and one. I probably would have been talking a lot of blade ryan. Yeah we're talking. About roger. Roger deakins man one very. Would you just say fourteen fourteen nominations and he's never won before ever won before the guys in amazing cinematography leasing. People don't always pay attention to you. Know like the people that make these movies. Yeah work and always director. They do but cinematographers. That's the guy that has the vision and knows how to turn that into something for director. That's what you're watching you know. He's he's translating it for the director to the screen. If you've got a good cinematographer because we're both photographer. Yes so important. Aspects of me you know the direction of the movie that the cinematographer the sound yet you get into lighting and costume design and set design and the amount of stuff that goes into a film and it does it all gets put under the hat of one person directed by. Oh that's a direct. That's coppola movie. That the scorsese movie. It's like well designed a letter. I mean that's kind of a big deal. You know so a lot of people. Don't celebrated i we but i think i pay attention to cinematographer being a photographer. Yeah it does it. Make sense to Editors to though lately. I've been looking at more. Because that's gotta be a tough job to look at take. Thousands of hours of footage and just try and make something cohesive cohesive out all of the and the cuts can be a couple of seconds off would change the entire dynamic of the scene so to be that. Good that's why score. Says he uses the same editor all the time. You can find us on stitcher. You can find us on radio public. You can find us on. Google play and you can find us on apple itunes podcast so if you would be so kind and you do want to go over there throw reading up listen to it on your phone you know. Listen to it on your phone. Hit a rating thing gives a reading a couple of words. Say a couple of words. You don't don't but reading help because it helps people find the show and we really appreciate it i wanna thank our sponsors. That's me and i want to thank our producers. That's me. And i wanna thank sean brother. Short break sean avenue and visit nightline photography. I've told you about him before. This is brother sean. And this season you wanna see some photography night. Blunt photography dot com. Thank all one word and that is fantastic. That is fantastic photography. See what we're talking about. See why we love cinematography. Look at a couple of those pictures and you'll understand And i think. I think that's it so we're going to close with song by gary oldman and i've closed. Who are open with this before. But i'm doing this. Because i think he did it his way i was gonna say no. No no more fittings. On your were fitting saw out. Sydney alex cox aiden six bio pic on sid vicious And gary oldman singing the sister. Gary -gratulations gary oldman congratulations. All right. thank you very much guys from us. Pleasure we'll talk to you soon. Thanks having you got it. Thank you for being here. I did

gary oldman oscar winston churchill gary gary men Lucy divy eric fellner Bevan lisa Bruce anthony mccartan Golly charlie journal winona ryder leon axel drexel Gusset battery park frankie steve Ken rotel johnson Fuck mcadam Oswald oswald oswald kano reeves
Will Colleges Issue Coronavirus Refunds?

WSJ Your Money Briefing

05:57 min | 10 months ago

Will Colleges Issue Coronavirus Refunds?

"Filing taxes find out. What recent tax changes mean for you with the Wall Street Journal's E-book by trusted reporters? Wsj members can download now Debbie S J plus Dot com slash tax twenty twenty. Here's your money briefing for Monday April thirteenth. I'm JR Waylon for the Wall Street Journal. Millions of college students are finishing the academic year at home after their campuses were closed to prevent the corona virus from spreading. Now students and families are asking schools for refunds for room and board in some cases tuition the schools that were in areas where which has been more affected by the virus have made faster decisions and some maybe in other parts of the country where it's just not as prevalent at this point. That's Wall Street. Journal Contributor Cheryl Winokur monk coming up. She'll discuss how schools are deciding whether to issue refunds. And how the closings could affect financial aid. Formula's I'm Jack. How host of the new Baron Streetwise PODCAST ON BUSINESS? In investing this week I focus on Disney and how the pandemic might change theme parks movies and television. Here's Disney executive chairman. Bob Eiger justice. We now have you bag checks for everybody. That goes into our parks. It could be in at some point. We had a component of that takes people's temperatures Disney beyond the pandemic on. This week's Barron streetwise. Subscribe on Apple podcasts. Spotify or wherever? You listen to podcasts Last week students filed lawsuits against Drexel University. And the University of Miami. They hope to get reimbursed for their spring tuition room board and fees after the schools campuses closed in classes were moved online universities around the country having considering whether to refund fees and if so by how much with us now to discuss the situation is Wall Street Journal Contributor Cheryl Winokur monk so cheryl what's been the trend so far in terms of refunds given to students and families since most university campuses have been forced to close. It's it's kind of all over the place and it really depends on the school. Many colleges and universities have said they plan to pro rate up charges for room and board based on the date. Students were asked to leave. Campus and some schools have already started giving their refunds. Some have said they will in some haven't made any decisions at all in most cases. We're talking about a lot of money and families are GonNa need another colleges plan sooner than later. I got the sense that the schools that were in areas where which has been more affected by the virus have made faster decisions and some maybe in other parts of the country where it's just not as prevalent at this point so they feel maybe they have a little bit more time. They've gone to online learning but yet they just Not The sense of urgency as in some schools. Do you expect colleges and universities to refund or prorate. Tuition costs specifically so generally. Speaking schools aren't refunding tuition because they're going to online learning and the idea. Is that pretty much while it's different? It's still the same if the if that makes sense. It's that they are. They're still learning. Even though it's a different set. Her schools handling the argument from students and families that classes being held online should warrant at least a partial tuition refund. It remains to be seen whether college is going to be accepting of that of that opinion. I have a feeling they're not going to. I don't know that for sure and maybe some colleges will. There's NO NATIONAL STANDARD. So every school is going to decide what to do. And it depends. How much pressure they get and how much money. They have in their coffers. And how much money? They're giving their support from the government or other states or or what other endow. Maybe a big endowment. It really is going to depend. I do suspect though that most schools will not be returning tuition or even a large portion of it or financial aid commitments by the college is likely to be adjusted. Given the change in venue for classes for the most part of financial aid is also not changing and the reason is again. The students are still taking classes full-time for the most part. Now it's going to be different if the student decides to drop out or goes less than full time than it would change but for the most part commitments aren't aren't changing. Students also probably have a large amount of money that they've loaded onto a card that they can use for example at dining halls that they're no longer using the schools that have made decisions about this have said they're either pro rating from the time that the students are leaving or what they'll do is they'll put it onto a card say for next year that they can use or they'll get the money back if they're graduating seniors now. President Trump said last week that student loan payments have been waived for six months and that the education department plans to announce six billion dollars in grants to assist students after their on campus. Classes canceled. Wh- what else can families do? If their finances have been hit hard by the pandemic they can always reach out to the school and a lot of places a lot of schools on their websites. Now have a question and answer is frequently asked questions or sections where parents can learn if they're not getting direct email either the parents or the students because some schools communicate directly with parents and some keep schools communicate directly with students. Some do both so if a student or a parent has not received any communication. Another step is to go on the website and see what they say. No some schools are saying we have. We will be making these decisions but we haven't yet. If you're getting impatient you can always call the school but just realized that other parents and other families are probably doing the same thing as well and so you may not get any further than the information on the website. It can't hurt to send the email Erta call. Just be patient because you know the schools are are trying all right. That's Wall Street. Journal Contributor Cheryl Winokur monk and that's your money briefing im JR Waylon for the Wall Street Journal.

Wall Street Journal Cheryl Winokur Disney Journal Disney Drexel University Spotify University of Miami Apple Debbie S J Bob Eiger executive chairman Barron Erta President Trump six billion dollars six months
Tapping Your Mortgage for Cash Faces New Restrictions

WSJ Your Money Briefing

06:13 min | 1 year ago

Tapping Your Mortgage for Cash Faces New Restrictions

"Explore Napa Valley California with W._S._J.. Magazine and into Garay Join W._S._J.. Magazine on intimate winery visits with globally acclaimed winemakers and celebrated shafts enjoy stunning views Michelin starred restaurants private sellers and much more book this exclusive trip at indeed dot com slash W._S._J.. Magazine or call six four six seven eight zero eight three eight three. Here's your money briefing. Im J._R.. Waylon at the Wall Street Journal in New York the government is about to put some restrictions on the amount of cash that borrowers can withdraw when refinancing their mortgage will explain in a moment for some money and market news. You should know data from the Experience Credit Credit Reporting Company that was reviewed by the Wall Street Journal indicates the American middle class is falling deeper into debt to maintain a middle class lifestyle while incomes have remained stagnant. The cost of cars college houses and medical care have steadily increased and consumer debt has climbed to four trillion dollars. That's not including And businesses aiming to hire talent for artificial intelligence jobs have found success among an unexpected resource. That's people with autism companies like Ernst Austin Young Dell and credit sweetser hiring autistic applicants for A._I.. Jobs through neuro diversity programs that they've established as the journals Jon Morosi rights. It's autistic workers are often hyperfocused highly analytical thinkers with an exceptional proficiency for technology. Many are capable of working long hours on repetitive A._I.. Tasks without losing interest such as labelling photos and videos for computer vision systems others have a high capacity for logical reasoning and pattern recognition enabling them to systematically develop and test A._i.. Models and the talent is out there a study by Drexel University shows that about forty two percent of autistic students who had special education in high school had no pay job in the first six years after leaving high school. I'm Danny Fortson from the Sunday Times times and this is a podcast about Silicon Valley in eight parts can't take something interesting about San Francisco. Yes please four tech's. I think she's a sociopathic liar and a narcissist which is more Jesus like we're going Homeowners have long been able to withdraw cash when refinancing their mortgages but that's likely to a change under new rules coming from the trump administration and Wall Street Journal reporter Ben Aisin is here with some details so ben. This was much more common before the recession but just refresh our listeners have this work where borrowers could withdraw cash so when you think about a refinance usually what you're doing is you're taking your mortgage your trading it in for for a new one but what you can do a lot of cases is you can trade him the old mortgage and take out a new one with a bigger balance and you basically pocket that cash and you can use it for whatever you want but it's basically adding the cash that you take out to the value of your mortgage and what we're talking about here are mortgages that are tied to the Federal Housing Authority exactly yeah. This is the program mostly for first time homebuyers now. What are the restrictions that are expected to go into place in September so what's happening here is they're lowering the cap on what's allowable allowable so you used to be able to take out a cash-out refi that was equal to eighty five percent of the value of your property now? It's only eighty percent so it's it's a bit lower which means <hes> you might not be able to take out as much cash if you have if you have an F._H._a.. Skier they have slightly lower credit scores often using down payment assistance programs to get <hes> money together for a down payment. They're they're ratio of debt to their income is often higher higher so when you take all those risks together and then you add on this risk of of higher cash-out refi balances the F._H._a.. Basically decided that's a risk that we're we're not really really willing to take anymore and now the borrowers can't just take the money and run. I mean the bar withdraw cash here. They face a risk if their home value goes down right exactly so when you think about a higher balance on your mortgage <hes> it's not like that goes away if your home value goes down so if you have a mortgage equal to eighty five five percent of your property and property values dropped twenty percent all of a sudden you're underwater and that rams up the risk a lot for for you as a homeowner and the restrictions involving F._H._A.. H._A.. Loans will bring those loans more in line with Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac loans when it comes to cash withdrawals

Wall Street Journal Napa Valley California Michelin Danny Fortson Fannie Mae Drexel University Federal Housing Authority New York Jon Morosi Waylon Ben Aisin Sunday Times Ernst Austin Silicon Valley Dell San Francisco Freddie Mac reporter
Opioid Settlements: Why Insys Is the Tip of the Iceberg

Knowledge@Wharton

25:13 min | 1 year ago

Opioid Settlements: Why Insys Is the Tip of the Iceberg

"Podcast is brought to you by knowledge award. Insys therapeutics is now the first opiate manufacturer to file for chapter eleven bankruptcy protection, the company made the move on Monday just days after a green to pay the federal government, two hundred and twenty five million dollars as a settlement with the criminal and civil cases against the company tied to their role in the opioid crisis. Instance was accused of bribing doctors to prescribe. It's federal based spray. Now the government may not be able to collect all of the money that it is old. There is also some question as to whether this could be the start of more chapter eleven filings by drug manufacturers who could be facing large settlements from the opioid crisis. Joining me in studio right now. Rob field professor of law professor of health management, and policy at Drexel University is also a lecture in the word schools healthcare management department and joining us in just a few minutes. Vincent cola, who's an assistant professor of legal studies and business ethics here at the word in school. We started out with rob good. See, thanks is. This as this story played out. It did leave me feeling that this will be the first of several chapter eleven we may very well, say it certainly could produce pharma has already indicated that it's considering the possibility. I think this case will be the beta test for this strategy by the pharma companies will see how it plays out if they succeed in getting out of the federal settlement. What kind of shape the companies in? They say that they want to sell it will be able to sell it just all these moving parts will determine whether it was acceptable from their point of view. And then whether other companies will want to imitate, and I guess, there would be some expectation that, that at least part of the settlement would be paid. Maybe not all of it, and that's where the federal government may have a little bit of an interesting quandary here. Is that this is a company that already has about two hundred sixty million dollars in debt on its books already? And so now because of the chapter eleven filing. The government is basically the same. Any one of those other creditors looking to get paid actually that's one of the issues that has yet to be determined government claims, particularly state claims can have priority over other creditors because of the state interest of, but they, they not, it's really up to the bankruptcy judge to decide so that will be an important factor as this place out seeing whether the government's claims are protected in any event. It's likely that the government will not receive all of the settlement that they'd agree to this is a story, unfortunately that I think we we have seen play out for a while. In terms of the accusations against innocence, bribing doctors to be able to use their particular product. It is a question I think about the industry as a whole because you have sales people representatives from a lot of these companies going into doctor's offices. Trying to make sure that their products are used by. And this is not just in this part of the industry. This is healthcare across the board pretty much. Yeah. I think if. To separate out the litigation strategy from the government's point of view. A part of it is to go after wrongdoers, the company executives and sales people who bribe doctors to get patients addicted. I mean basically that's no different from being drug dealer. And then the social benefit of getting a recovery that can be used for mitigating opioid addiction and treating overdoses and trying to solve the problem going forward. So you have these two separate goals, the fact that they pushed opioids is not the same as actually bribing doctors that that's crossing another line. So the punishment part of this probably remains the sentencing of the executives has yet to happen. So they could face some personal consequences for this in terms of the money, though, available to help mitigate the opioid problem that remains to be seen now. And for people that don't know when you have a chapter eleven filed. It's basically as it says it is a protection it allows the company to continue to do work to be able to bring revenue in so that they can pay off all of these debts. Right. Right. Right. And there's an interesting wrinkle to this, which is whether they remain eligible to get reimbursed under Medicare, Medicaid, one of the remedies. The government can use in a case like this is to disqualify them so that their products would not be eligible for 'imbursement, which is going to destroy a huge part of their market. The government didn't do that in this case, so that they continue to get revenue presumably to help pay the settlement, the government always could. But I think now more than ever, they don't want to disqualify them because they want that money, put into the kitty to pay everyone and from what I read the settlement itself, if it were to play out as two hundred twenty five million dollars that, that would be broken up, basically over a, a series of years, so that the government should see. So incensed wouldn't have to. To pay the entire lot in, in one full shot. Right. Right. Right. So it's a structured settlement that extends over several years that row raises a few questions. One is how much money are they going to get up front, if they get those initial payments, and there may not be that immediate effect? The other is what happens when the ultimately sell it will the buyer, retain those responsibilities. And that's in a way more important because they have said they are going to sell the company wants the bankruptcy proceedings are over. And then what happens accompany, acquire some liabilities? It's possible these discharged. That's another reason why it's important to see how this proceeding plays out in terms of whether other companies are going to want to jump on the bandwagon. Your comments are welcome at eight four four Warton eight four four nine four two seven eight six six or if you'd like you can send us a comment on Twitter at biz radio z radio one thirty two or my Twitter account, which is at Dan, Loney ELO, anyway. Twenty-one rob field. Joining me in studio professor of law professor of health management and policy at Drexel University also lecture here at the school in the healthcare management department, this, and we mentioned a moment ago that this is a story that obviously is probably going to continue to play out, but in terms of insects, how much do we believe that this type of activity think is prevalent in the industry as a whole? Unfortunately, I think it's fairly prevalent. You've seen enforcement actions like this against many companies Johnson Johnson is facing them now, and in terms of opioids and his face them. In other regards, there's a thin line between trying to educate a doctor and trying to bribe Dr. Yeah. And sometimes the education can involve some inducements, you know, you bring pizza for their staff, or you give them ballpoint pens in this case it was well over the line. So there are a lot of companies. Operating in that graze on you see plenty of pens and another swag with pharma names on it. It is unusual to see what they were doing, which is actually a paying speaker fees for speeches that weren't giving. But it does it does happen and the temptations. There are great and the government can't police all of it significant difference between a ten to twelve dollars pizza. And what we're talking about here with some of these actions. Right. Right, right. Absolutely. Now, one other thing about insist to keep in mind is it is a very narrow company, basically, their only product was this fentanyl based product they're now, expanding into some cannabis based medications, but it with this one product disappearing, it really threatens their structure and does indicate that they need bankruptcy for that brings up the. Other side to this in terms of the size of the company like incest, I mean, when you think about all of the companies that we've kind of talked about that are in this room, you have some massive billion dollar companies that are in this insist probably not in that category. Hundreds of millions of dollars. And so you would think that the ability for some of the larger companies that may be involved in some of these settlements to be able to not have to file chapter eleven just be able to set up that structured settlement is quite a bit easier than a company like insects or some other ones that may be involved in this. Absolutely. Purdue pharma, which is the manufacturer vaccine contin, which has said that they're contemplating bankruptcy as a strategy is another narrow company of whose book a business is mainly around opioid type medications. So it could happen to them, it could happen to some of the other small fish, but Johnson Johnson isn't going to declare bankruptcy and what that might do then is pushed the plaintiff's lawyers. Towards suing the bigger companies because no they're still going to be there. What do you think that this is potentially going to mean for the legal side in terms of opioids moving forward? Because obviously, there is a medicinal value having them. But the abuse side of them is obviously, as we're seeing now quite a bit larger than, than I think many people expected, I wonder if we are going to see changes in, in regulation around opioids moving forward from the government side, not just regulation, but standard of care, and litigation. And we've been seeing this now for decades. It's like waves that go up and down we have over prescribing, as we've seen recently and addiction problems. And then we see undertreatment and patients cancer, patients and others who genuinely need this kind of powerful, medication not getting it. And then the pendulum swings back the other way, I think we are beginning to see doctors becoming much more. Gun shy about prescribing opioids and we undoubtedly we'll see some patients who will be denied medication that they cruelly need. It's that balance that is so tough to strike if everyone played fair and didn't do it. Insist did and bribe doctors and deliberately tried to get patients addicted it would be easier to get that middle ground. But unfortunately, the temptation is just too great to, to not play fair. And I guess also when you're talking about the investment that some of these companies are making multimillion dollar investments that they feel that they need to have to go to, to various lengths to be able to recoup that money as they move for not that it's not that it's right. Not that, it's obviously, it isn't illegal activity. But still that's I, I guess, the mindset that some of these companies are dealing with right now. That's true for a lot of products, particularly the biologics, which can cost over billion dollars to develop the opiates. I don't think it takes a lot of research and development to. Develop an opioid this point. We've known about them for hundreds of years, probably thousands of years, you, you can tweak the formula at Fenton hill, make them more or less potent. But I, I don't think that kind of research and development is an issue, there the way it is with cancer drugs, or heart drugs, or something like that. We're joined in studio by rob 'field professor of law and professor of health management and policy, Drexel University. Your comments are welcome at eight four four Warton, eight four four nine four two seven eight six six or if you'd like Senator comment on Twitter app is radio one thirty two or my daughter, count, which is at damn Loney Twenty-one. We'll get into the bankruptcy side in a minute. But from the legal side, you mentioned about Purdue pharma insists, obviously, has has gone through there side of this, if, if this bankruptcy were to hold up the what are the options for the government to be able to try and collect some of this money. Well, they have to stand in line, you know you take your number, and you get your place there. Our other creditors out their suppliers. There's their pension fund their payroll and so forth. And it's up to the bankruptcy judge to decide the priority and what percentage each one gets one of the rules of bankruptcy is there's a look back period of two or three months where any payments that were made in that period, can be clawed back the ideas, they don't want the bankrupt company to be favoring one creditor over another. So if the government get some of its money today, and the bankruptcy goes into effect if you weeks from now, they may have to pay back some of that money, but I think it will clearly affect it again strategies. What companies that go after how they tried to structure the settlements now there's a precedent for this in previous mass litigation, particularly Festus where some those this is now going back twenty twenty five years, some of the big. Manufacturers declared bankruptcy because they're looking at claims in the multiple billions of dollars in that case they were able to set up funds for the best as victims, which I think, is the best alternate outcome here. If you had a giant pool, and there's a little bit less than the pool because instances bankrupt that's not going to have major facts. If you're only looking at insists than than obviously, it is in the specis case you had an industry, that was kind of dying out regulations were restricting the use of specis. So it wasn't a major hit to the economy in this case when you have a narrow company like insists going bankrupt again, it's going not going to be a, a major hit to the farm industry if it spread beyond that, that would be an issue. But how many companies do you think that are out there that are similar to inches in terms of their narrowness that, that are involved in this in this particular side of the? Opioid crisis. Yeah. There there's a handful of them and all of those may fall like dominoes. But, but again, if we're looking at what happened with the specis or actually more significantly with tobacco that was twenty years ago, there was a nationwide litigation nation light pool set up a master settlement agreement that provided money for each of the states. Those companies were kind of too big to fail that they were not going to go bankrupt. And I think something like that is what policy wonks would love to see so that any one bankruptcy isn't going to sink the ship. But the chances that, that you think that, that could occur are what fifty fifty at this. They're not they're not great because we have litigation, and in different states. Allot of the cases have been consolidated in Ohio this Massachusetts, we've cases in Oklahoma and perhaps as things develop. But, you know. These, these litigations go on for years or even decades. Yeah. Especially started late seventies and actually it's still going on today. So I think we're seeing a drama that's gradually playing out. And the bankruptcy is just one one chapter. We're also being joined here in studio by Vincent Makola assistant. Professor of legal studies and business ethics here at the school. Great to see again, give us your sets of this, this move by inches to, to file chapter eleven bankruptcy. Yeah. Thanks for having me again. Dan, the short of it is from what we can see from first day filings already. They're facing liabilities in excess of what they believe asset values. So I mean really it looks like a classic. Place where banks bankruptcy probably is the, the sound move, and they're, obviously a lot more liabilities to come. How did then does this impact, what the government is trying to do in terms of claiming these settlements? And we were talking with rob a moment ago. I mean this basically puts the government in the line with every other creditor that, that's looking to get paid at this point. Yeah. That's exactly right. I mean if you think about what bankruptcy corporate bankruptcy certainly is meant to do. It's meant to take away the advantage that one creditor gets by moving I and what the government have been doing. The settlements is moving I, settling their cases before, private litigants have had a chance to have their day in court settled their cases and the main might say, main principle of bankruptcy is that they all get treated alike. It should the government. Then when you think about the structure of these this case, and what we believe will be other cases with other therapies. Companies weather pharma companies that may be involved in this type of problem. Should the government have a greater advantage to collect? I. I don't I don't think so. But, you know, more importantly, the law does not does not usually give the government a priority. Sometimes it doesn't tax collection. Some other detail places the bankruptcy code does not say, though, in general that governments come first. Okay. So in terms of the settlements then potentially the government, the, the number that they have settled on two hundred twenty five million dollars with this chapter eleven filing how much could the government potentially be looking at losing off of that to twenty five because of this entire process, I, I would think most of that. So, so here's the way to think about, and I'm not an expert on insists. I you know, let me just say conceptual, here, say that the company's assets or with a couple hundred million dollars. I think I'm right in saying that about one hundred and fifty million from what I saw that about two hundred sixty okay. And so that debt is that debt. Reflects the primarily the settlement as far as I can tell. Right. So what that's not covering as all the other, the, the value of all the other settlements. It's going to make what you're gonna see here. And it looks like by the way, that insist didn't have a lot of any debt really coming into the opiate litigation. So what you're going to have to do is take that to injured million assets as the numerator and divide it by however many, how big the ultimate size of the liabilities are in principle. The bankruptcy code says that each creditor gets its fraction of that two hundred million in value. So is so if you have ten creditors that are coming after you, and you, you have two hundred and sixty million dollars in debt that really does take that, that number way down and here, we have thousands of creditors coming. So. Yeah, I mean I would expect that, you know, government's going to the government settlement that we have in incest. Maybe it's going to get some pennies on that on that dollar. Yeah. There's another important. Piece of this for instances point of view be curious. Your thoughts is that they can free some of the other litigation, and there it's a it's a tactical issue. In addition to the money, they don't have to go through that process executives being deposed and cross examined and discovery of their files. So that could be an equally important part of the strategy. Yeah. I think that's right, there are, you know, they're a couple of different strategic reasons why a company might wanna bring litigation. That's being reared in lots of places into one forum in some cases. Although I don't think this is the case and incest, the issue is that the company would prefer to have a bankruptcy judge trained lawyer sort out liabilities rather than have juries in opioid stricken. Localities assessing damages. I don't think that's what's going on insists because, you know, the shareholders and insists are not going to walk away with anything. No matter what. So I. I think the second reason you might wanna be in bankruptcy court is exactly right, exactly. Right. That might just be much more efficient to deal with all these claims in one place, rather than bleeding away, even more cash going to lawyers like, myself might as well just lineup. All the people who are money and just try to get as much as few many of those pennies on the dollar is that can what about the potential of incest being sold. And what impact that would have on this entire process? So a common way for corporate bankruptcies to be resolved is to sell off the sets in the bankruptcy setting free and clear of all the liabilities all the claims against those assets. The idea there is to just raise a pot of cash, and then you can hand out the cash. So a lot harder to hand out fractional shares of some reorganized insists firm. So that may well be the, the route to go. In some of these cases, but fundamentally ideas, just a separate, you know, whatever productive assets that company has, you know, and I don't again, I'm not an expert in incest. But if as additional kind of drug lines and so on separate those from the liability as you were saying before, rod that realistically this drug fennel base spray that, that, that was really their, their bread. And butter. Yeah. Yeah. So one of the questions is clinical question doctors going to keep using it. It's incredibly powerful. It's apparently very helpful for a certain category of cancer patients who for whom other opioids are no longer working their strategy was to use it much more widely than that. If they can no longer do that. Is this valuable product and what do they have to, to sell to success company? But I guess when you think about the company itself as you mentioned, they're also getting into canvas based medicines, as well, and anything around cannabis, these days is something that there is a belief that there is a great profitability down the. Owed on. Yeah. Unfortunately, a lot of companies have made the decision it's going to be a very competitive area. So it's not at all clear, whether their product is going to have much value. We're joined here in studio by rob field of Drexel University. Vincent Makola from here at the word school, your comments, welcome at eight four four Warton, eight four four nine four two seven eight six six or if you'd like Senator comment on Twitter at biz radio one thirty two or my Twitter account, which is at Dan Loney twenty one I asked this question of, of rob earlier and is give you is it kind of an expectation you're obviously an expert in bankruptcy. But would you expect to see as more of these potential settlements are laid out that more companies more of these former Sudoku companies will think about chapter eleven to protect themselves. I think so just the magnitude of settlement numbers that we're seeing just from the limited government settlements, we've seen so just to me, a really big really big liability and. And you know, there, there are some of these firms that maybe well, enough capitalize that they just wanna deal with it as is. I don't know that CVS is going into bankruptcy. And, and again, also some of the claims are more attenuated, right? So claims against incest, as far as I can tell against Purdue look to me from the outside to be more serious kinds of claims than say the claim of against a, a pharmacy. That's just filling doctor's prescriptions so I don't expect to see the S two. Yes, bankruptcy. But I am member of other companies absolutely liabilities are just so big and the management costs of dealing with the litigations look really big too. Yeah. I think part of the resolution will depend on what the plaintiff's lawyers decide if this turns out to be like tobacco or specis, they're going to decide the combining all of these claims into a single litigation. Dealing with the assets of the bankrupt in non bankrupt companies together is the best way to get their clients paid and also to get their fees. Paid. Then you'll see pressure to do something. You see that as an option. Vince? Hopefully hopefully, get this herding cats. You know if you look at the way, the best stuff is panned out. I mean, basically been a disaster, thirty years on and lawyers still taking thirty five percent from their for client settlements. So, you know, it's been an amazing boon for lawyers and not so much for their claim. It's for their clients and the claims against the you know. So I hope I hope there will be some way to centralize some of this, but especially if the numbers keep being as big as they are. We'll see great great having both with us. Thanks for coming in eighteen evinced. Great to see if thanks for coming in. Thanks. Thank you vincit. Because from here at the school, rob field from university and also lecture here at the words for more insight from knowledge, at Warton, please, visit knowledge dot Morton dot U. Penn dot EDU.

Drexel University Twitter professor rob field professor of law federal government Dan Loney Purdue pharma Vincent Makola cannabis word school Loney ELO Dr. Yeah Senator Vincent cola assistant professor Insys therapeutics Purdue
STEMinists: Mildred Dresselhaus

Encyclopedia Womannica

06:25 min | 1 year ago

STEMinists: Mildred Dresselhaus

"Twenty years later somebody finally read. My papers started recognizing that this may be was interesting Hello from wonder media networks. I'm Jenny Kaplan and this is encyclopedia will Manteca if you're just tuning in here's the deal every weekday. We're telling the stories of women from throughout history history who you may not know about but definitely should each month has a theme and this month. We're talking about steps science technology engineering nearing and mathematics are dramatically male dominated fields that said there are an extraordinary number of forgotten women who should be remembered for their contributions contributions to those fields throughout time. We're bringing their stories to life today. Stem inist has been deemed the queen of Carbon Science for her pioneering during work in the fundamental properties of carbon she was the first woman appointed professor and Professor America physics and electrical engineering at MIT and she helped to kickstart the field of nanotechnology. We're talking about the one and only mildred Drexel House v was born on November Eleventh Nineteen thirty in Brooklyn New York. She was the daughter of Polish Jewish. Immigrants Mildred mildred grew up in the Bronx and was a gifted violinist. She went to high school at Hunter College High School and got her Undergrad degree at Hunter College in Nineteen fifty one she majored in math and physics and almost completed a third major and chemistry she then received a highly procedures Fulbright Fellowship for Postgraduate but studies at Cambridge at the time women who excelled in the sciences often became a lower level science teachers mildred was counseled not to do so by future Nobel Prize winner Rosal in yellow and decided instead to continue her education in addition to completing her fulbright mildred also got a masters asters degree from Harvard University and a PhD from University of Chicago in Chicago mildred who often went by Millie met Jean Russell House in the two married and had four children with her doctorate in hand mildred decided to continue her career at higher education she taught at Cornell University before for moving to the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. It's really exceptional as a woman in science in the Mid Twentieth Century military taught at such prestigious sieges universities she was hired as a visiting professor of electrical engineering in nineteen sixty seven and receive tenure at Mit just a year later she she was the first woman to do so at the institution and was the first woman to be appointed to the role of MIT institute professor in Nineteen Eighty Five. That's an honor that's been and held by some of the greatest minds of our time. All in all mildred had an illustrious fifty seven year career at Mit. She spent most of that time studying the properties of carbon and other electro conductive materials so carbon turned out to be extremely interesting system. It also turned out to be a system. Nobody else cared about for many years so I had to myself. Her research is difficult to understand because of its complexity laxity but at its most basic milton studied carpet in all its forms including its electric energy structure among the many facets of of her work. She tested out the properties of carbon when interwoven with other materials for example. If you stitch carbon and an alkali metal together where it becomes a superconductor military it was also the first to come up with the idea of rolling a single layer of carbon atoms into a hollow tube or what we know today as a Nano Tube. It's a primary component of nanotechnology. Milford was also known for her work on graphite. Her production action of a very thin graphite has allowed portable electronics to be added everywhere from clothing to cell phones suffice it to say today we are surrounded led by manifestations of miltiades work mildred received innumerable honors including the National Medal of Science and the Presidential Medal of freedom and our influence is all around us in the cars we drive the energy generate the electronic devices that power lives a new generation walking the path that millie blazed around the year two thousand one motored was appointed director of the Office of Science at the US Department of Energy. Several physics theories bear her last name in addition to cultivating her own success mildred was dedicated to supporting other women in stem. She Co organized the women's for him at Mit in nineteen seventy one talk about women in science and engineering. She called science an endless frontier. Her Genius was also recognized. Nice in a General Electric ad campaign asking what a female scientists were celebrities what if movie drizzle House the first woman to win the national based on metal of science and engineering famous any celebrity at Wfan. We think they should be mill passed away. On February twentieth twenty seventeen at the age of eighty six. I should think science the Si- The or giving me. This nice life tune in tomorrow for the story of another incredible stem inist a special. Thanks to Lizzy Caplan my favorite sister co-creator Talk to you tomorrow this week of Encyclopedia Manteca is sponsored by General Assembly General Assembly his impacted over one hundred thousand careers through training today's most in demand skills these days leveraging technology is vital for any company success general assemblies arming individuals and teams today the skills. They need to be the status of tomorrow. Check them out at G._E. Dot C.

Mildred mildred MIT mildred Drexel House Manteca Millie professor and Professor Americ Jenny Kaplan Hunter College High School National Medal of Science Lizzy Caplan MIT institute visiting professor Nobel Prize General Electric General Assembly General Assem Bronx University of Chicago
Regal Fritillary Butterflies Find Rare Refuge On Military Base In Pennsylvania

Environment: NPR

03:56 min | 1 year ago

Regal Fritillary Butterflies Find Rare Refuge On Military Base In Pennsylvania

"Support for this podcast and the following message come from American pest open your doors who a healthy pest free home with American pest offering safe environmentally friendly pest control solutions throughout the D._m._v. for over ninety years learn more at American American past dot net about a million animal and plant species are threatened with extinction a stark United Nations report earlier the sheer found human activities are driving this decline Marie Cusak of member station W. I._T._F.. Jeff reports on one rare butterfly. That's largely disappeared from the East Coast but has found refuge in a surprising place regal. Larry butterflies used to be common across the U._S.. They're still around in the Midwest but in the east to see. Them you have to sign up for a special guided tour that happens only a few times each summer. Everybody excited this season better. The group is at the Fort Indian town gap military base to catch a glimpse of this charismatic insect with Vivid Orange Wings dotted with black and white spots on a recent July morning visitors pile into their cars to caravan out to a grassy field convoys about the lead wildlife biologists. Mark Schwartz leads the group as police direct for Traffic Numbers for The Butterfly Chore a lot of Manpower For some butterflies it takes a lot of coordination and occasionally breaks down and that's when we have problems this time the Air Force didn't get the memo Schwartz had them reroute their training flights at the last minute. That's why I was a little upset that there was a problem because they're shooting so that that's a fifty caliber machine gun with the plane safely out of the way Swertz hops. Out of his car and leads the tour through the field. It doesn't take long to spot a butterfly flapping by people quickly grabbed their cameras. There's a regal coming across a military base may seem as surprising haven for wildlife but it can abby because it isn't welcoming people and Development Schwartz says the activity here also helps create meadows there may also be tanks and other military vehicles that go in and tear up the ground that essentially set back what would turn into trees back into Rassam. It's exactly what the butterflies like and it's where the plants they feed on grow. This is Michael Beans second time on the tour. He drove up from Washington D._C.. For the day just to see the Regal's. It's heartwarming to see as many people as there are there to. The people are more and that's quite remarkable out to see the rare. No one is quite sure why the Rigo Hillary's nearly disappeared in the east about one hundred miles from the base in Philadelphia. The Academy of Natural Sciences of Drexel University is home to one of the oldest insect collections North America entomology curator. John Gal House says a prominent nineteenth century naturalist named Titian Peel left behind many specimens a note showing he was able to find Regal Hillary's in the city eighty. We can see here in peels handwriting collected in the vicinity of Philadelphia by T. R. P. Titian Ramsey peel eighteen thirty one the Regal Hillary's decline in recent decades fits into a broader owner pattern of biodiversity loss driven by factors like habitat destruction invasive species and climate change Gal House explains butterflies are especially important to humans because as pollinators they play a critical role in food.

Mark Schwartz Regal Hillary Philadelphia East Coast United Nations Titian Peel Academy of Natural Sciences of John Gal House Marie Cusak Jeff Midwest T. R. P. Titian Ramsey Fort Indian Larry North America Michael Beans abby Rassam Air Force
ARRL Audio News - October 4, 2019

ARRL Audio News

08:25 min | 1 year ago

ARRL Audio News - October 4, 2019

"This is A. R. L. Audio News Your Weekly Summary of news highlights from the world of amateur radio. If you retransmit audio dues through a repeater leader listened for the Morse Code K character followed by four seconds of silence that you're you to stop transmitting so that your repeater timer we're can reset. I'm Carla Pereira Casey one. HSS and these are stories for Friday October fourth the November issue of digital Q. S. T. is now available on the Q. S. T. APP or via the A. Our website at www dot a. r. l. dot org not forward slash q t articles in this issue include a combat loop antenna for one hundred sixty meters and automatic antenna selector for remote operating a tutorial on transmission line impedance matching and reviews of the new. F T T x one hundred twenty transceiver and hand S. P. E. Expert one point five. KFA LINEAR amplifier the print edition of Q. S. T. should be showing up in mailboxes within a couple of weeks. More than two hundred thirty items will go on the block as bidding begins on Thursday October seventeenth at ten. Am Eastern time fourteen hundred ut see for for the fourteenth annual a R L online auction the auction will continue through Thursday October twenty fourth closing at ten P. M. Eastern time in auction preview opens on Monday October fourteenth at A. R. L. DOT AUCTION ANYTHING DOT COM. That's A. R. L. DOT AU C. T. I am N. A. N. Y. T. H. I. N. G. DOT COM proceeds from the auction will fund educational outreach activities. The two thousand nineteen auction includes lab tested Q. S. T. product review gear vintage books used equipment and one of kind items plus the A. R. L. APP team team has contributed four of its very popular mystery boxes. The auction will also offer items donated from the Popular Television Series last man standing starring Tim Alan an actual radio amateur who portrays the fictional Mike Baxter K. eight zero x t t in the show which has featured ham radio in some episodes all bidders must register at the auction site if you have registered for a previous a ARL online auction you may use the same log in information if you have forgotten your user id or password. Click on the help tab for instructions on how to retrieve these credentials. Make sure you're correct address and other information are up to date the team from Belarus dominated the Sixteenth High Speed Telegraphy World Championship in mid-september sponsored by the International Amateur Radio Union Belarus came away with more than two thirds of the medals with with several other countries teams sharing the rest representatives of nineteen countries participated in championship which took place in Alpine Bulgaria sponsored by the Bulgarian Bulgarian Federation of Radio Amateurs in all sixty male and thirty female competitors took part in the events which included reception of five letter figure mixed groups for a period of one-minute according to the software provided and transmission a five letter figure mixed groups for a period of one minute ten teams of academic Dominic Industry and entrepreneurial technologists are set to compete in these spectrum Collaboration Challenge Championship on October Twenty third at the mobile a World Congress in Los Angeles the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency or Darpa announced the qualifiers in September it is a three a year contest to unlock the potential of the Rif spectrum using artificial intelligence. The teams radio designs will go head-to-head during a live competition and the first second and third place winners will walk away with two million one million and seven hundred fifty thousand dollars in prizes respectively teams representing Drexel University versity the University of Florida Vanderbilt University a group from Kent University the University of Antwerp Rutgers University and Northeastern Eastern University will compete in this months-long event with teams of independent researchers. The aim of the competition is to determine if artificial intelligence enabled the radio's can autonomously navigate the wireless spectrum eliminating the need for rigid human man at spectrum bands or traditional spectrum allocation. There is plenty happening on the air over the next several days look for. W4 UVA celebrating the University of Virginia bicentennial you'll also find and w five DD L. on the air from the tour detached canoe race in Louisiana W five sx say we'll be making contacts and celebrating seventy years of the Plateau Artemis County Radio Club. W4 De will be active. Commemorating the Little David torpedo boat attack during the civil war and w five spee will be operating on the Albuquerque International Balloon Festival you will find more details in your October issue of tea in DX news several several DX operations kicked off this week including seven p eight eight zero enlist also t R eight C R from Gabon xfi Nine D XP in Vietnam why J Zero B. c. p. in Vanuatu and tease eight SP from Saint Pierre and kill on and now with this week Satellite Update Years Bruce Page K. K. Five. Do the AO Ninety Two Command Team Announces That Experiment Boura mentor Wednesday will run on U. T. C. 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[REPLAY] Michael Mauboussin  Active Challenges, Rational Decisions and Team Dynamics (Capital Allocators, EP.36)

Capital Allocators

1:11:24 hr | 11 months ago

[REPLAY] Michael Mauboussin Active Challenges, Rational Decisions and Team Dynamics (Capital Allocators, EP.36)

"Hello I'm Ted Psyches. And this is capital allocators. This show is an open ration- of the people and process behind capital allocation through conversations with leaders. In the money game we learn how these holders of the keys to the kingdom allocate their time and their capital. You can keep up to date by visiting. Capitol allocators PODCASTS DOT COM. My guest on. Today's show is Michael. I'm really excited to share this conversation with you. Michael doesn't need a lot of introduction in our circles but he is director of research at Blue Mountain capital a multi billion dollar hedge fund an asset manager and has spent the majority of his professional career thinking and writing about decision making behavior and complex systems. Michael had two stints too long stints at Credit Suisse and spent nearly a decade alongside. Bill Miller at Legg Mason. He's also been an adjunct Professor at Columbia Business School for twenty four years and the author of three books. Every time I get a chance to speak with Michael I come away. Thinking better and feeling smarter and this time was no exception. Our conversation covers Michael's early career the paradox of skill academic research. That's actually more favorable to active management than some of what we normally hear. Decision making optimal size and composition of teams unsettling features in the market data analysis in sports career. Risk the Santa Fe Institute and Michael's new research on the horizon. Please enjoy my conversation with Michael Morrison. Michael thanks for joining me. Ted's awesome free with you start with people's backgrounds and I'm curious when someone ends up being a strategist you like as a kid misspent youth. Probably the best answer. No I you know. I grew up in central New York in a college town and mostly was interested in sports so I spent most of my time either playing or participating sports level so didn't really do much with my education. Tell probably after college actually honestly but jock all of this. This studying continuous learning that you do didn't start to later on really after college truly. So how did you find your way to Wall Street? I went to Georgetown. I was a government major ECON minor had never taken any business courses. I did have an odd summer job. Though my father was a car dealer I grew up in Ithaca New York near Cornell and during the summers to help earn money for college I as a salesman so mid-nineteen eighties right. What's hot or what's on. The ascent is Wall Street. I had a little bit of sales background. I learned some of the basic sales and just at new new. I needed to get a job. And so a bunch of firms interviewed one of them was Drexel Burnham Lemberg which is where I ended up and it was nineteen eighty six. And there's a kind of a quick funny story about this because goes back to maybe sports is. I did well enough on an on. Campus interview that I was invited to New York. And that's sort of a big deal as you know you're called senior. You don't really know what's going on so I got my best suit. Come up here and there are like fifteen or twenty candidates interviewing for this thing they go. You'RE GONNA have five interview confusing at ten minutes with a head guy so you know you want to be good all day but ten minute make sure your for your ten minutes so the might my ten minutes rise. I come see this big executive. I walked in his office and he's got this Washington redskins trash cans. So I'm a sports fan. I'd gone to a couple of games. Redskins were good at the time. So I- commented like great trash can and he goes off on this tangent about how you know sports as a metaphor for life and how Washington so great and to make a long story short I get the job and it turns out that while the other people hadn't voted for joining to offer job. This guy like overrode them and said like Oh. He's I really like this kid so yeah I mean I really I had no business probably having this job and I like to say I mean I really. I took business courses. I took I took accounting when I was a senior at my father's urging and I got like a C. plus the generosity of the professors heart. So I really had very little experience and all this wanting to say about the Drexel Burnham program which even acknowledged at the time was. It was amazing in the sense of eighteen months long in it was we wrote. We did some classroom work and then we rotated through about ten or twenty different departments. So if you were a young person to didn't really know where you want to and up having access to trading desks and operations and investment banking research. It would allow you to figure out at least where you thought your skills and interests best aligned and that was in New York. Drexel is known for what was happening in. La with Milken at the time. What was that like? Drexel was was pretty strong everywhere but I think you said the focal point was in California. Never went out there for any of that stuff and I will say that you know I do believe this. Your first job often has a lot to do your your professional socialization Drexel's Equity Research Department which I am being. An equity analyst was very influential. I follow those animals very closely. They had a style. That was a little bit different than I think the more traditional firms. They're a little bit more aggressive and in many ways. That was very influential. One of that job was determination. Job was to be a retail broker right financial advisor which I did for twelve months and was an abject failure shoot lesson of life. Say like you know. It's good to know what you're not good at and I realized that I wanted to do research. I finally landed a research but a couple years later I was a junior animals and I got an offer to be the senior analyst at county natwest and this is early. Nineteen probably nineteen ninety-one and the key is county now west had taken over the drexel operations. So there's a lot of drexel equity is both in sales and research and so forth so in a sense it was almost like coming home even those a different firm and again very important. These are like these weird little happenstance things that come along that that are incredibly important in terms of propelling my own career. So you know chalk that up to lock but but yeah that was great and then he started in consumer packaged goods where they threw in or was there any choice in interest that led you there. Now it's actually really interesting so I would say that in my thirty plus years of Wall Street and the analyst who I thought was the greatest animals I've ever seen operate was guiding him Allen Greider. Who was the food industry analyst at Drexel Burnham and in many ways a huge impact on the way I thought about the world he he was a great analysts in happened to be very good time for that industry and he was very influential. What was it about the way he went about it? That made him so good. He was very focused on economic value. And cash flows. In our early proponent of things like share buybacks but when you roll back to the mid eighties and early nineties. These were quite novel things. He had the ear of a lot of senior executives. I just think he looked at the businesses. In a way that was different you know most traditional analysts were at the time and probably to some degree today quite sleepy you know earnings and pe multiples. He was very focused on cash and economic values. So that guy got me interested in that sector generally speaking and so my first junior analyst job was to be support a food beverage tobacco guy so basically I knew little about those companies having been an enthusiastic follower of this guy and that really was the path that was because this guy my interest and one thing led to another and what happened to him. Now it's not a not a name that I know yeah. He died quite tragically at very young age. I think he was in those late thirties. And it was an unfortunate. I think it was an auto accident probably in the late eighties. I think if you and get in a room it's GonNa be hard not to talk about active management. So why are there no four hundred hitters and active management anymore? Really interesting question. And by the way she just mentioned that the background for all. This is some really great work by Stephen Jay Gould the the late biologist from Harvard and he wrote a book in Nineteen ninety-six called Full House and it was really about trends how to think about trends how to think about distributions. And this is where I I learned about this concept. I think we can. We can translate to active management Ted Williams last guy to hit four hundred major league baseball. Nineteen forty one. The question why is no one replicated that and you know it's interesting because there are. There are theories that Gould points out. You know the players are more tired or they're not trying harder. They play at night or whatever is and what he ultimately argued for was it was the. What do you call the spread of excellence? And this is a concept by ultimately. I called the paradox of skill but really. I want to say that that was his idea right. And so the basic concept is that in the paradox skills it wouldn't both luck and skill or contributing to outcomes which which is most things right. There are some things that are mostly skill like running races but but most things in life have at least a dollop of lock it can be. The case at his skill gets better luck more important which seems completely backwards right. This goes back to his four hundred hitting thing. And here's a way to think about it so skill you can think about two different dimensions. One is absolute skill. And I think we look around the world. I mean whether it's sports or business. The quality of products quality of automobiles today versus two or three generations ago. Very Uniform. Very high and clearly in the world of investing. That's the case right. So absolute skills never better saying that differently Ted if I gave you all the technology at your fingertips today in the information access and trading costs and so forth. Put you back in the sixties or seventies. You would crush the competition right but the second imagine. This is what I think. Gould pointed out. So brilliantly was is relative skill and that's the difference between the very best participant in the average participant. And what Google argued in case after case is that the variants has been going down so the difference between the very best in the averages less just make this a little bit more quantitative Ted Williams in nineteen forty one was almost exactly a four standard deviation event right so you take the average of all the batting averages you got the standard deviation for standard deviation forro sex almost on the button by the way the average batting average really hasn't changed that much over time right because it's a pun intended arms war between hitters and pitchers right they both are improving in lockstep. So you don't see their absolute improvements you just you see. They're relatively standstill so basically. What happened is the standard deviations? Gone Down over time which means forced inner deviation event in two thousand. I haven't done the two thousand seventeen numbers but two thousand sixteen numbers would get you to buy three eighty three eighty S. Awesome for hitting. You win the batting title right. But you don't get anywhere near that Ford. I four hundred number. So the point is there's more uniform excellence. And so now we cover the world active minute management and. I think you see a very similar type of story. Which is the people drawn to? This industry are today extremely well educated very well train access to incredible information academic research. That's out there. And as a consequence the degree of the uniformity of excellence is probably higher and it makes it more difficult to distinguish yourself so one of the ways to quantify that we measure the standard deviation of excess returns the standard deviation of Alpha Right. So you imagine. Alpha plotted has bell shape distribution which is roughly not a horrible way to look at it. And that bell has been getting skinnier over time and just as it has for batting average by the way. Very very parallel. There's an interesting little side note on this by the way. Peter Bernstein the Great Peter Bernstein. Who wrote wonderful books? Just great. Economic Historian wrote a couple of essays about this and he talked about three introduction. Four hundred hitter and it's really interesting because it was a it was completely a function of the timing so that standard deviation have been going down down down sixty seventies eighties into the nineties and then there was a massive reversal where the standard deviation what way back around the dot com period and so there's a spike and then it then after the dot com bubble sort of the bubble burst and we had the bear market. It went right back revert back to trend. So it's an interesting thing there are. I mean there. There was this episode at least three or four year period where we had that blow out of the standard deviation again and there was an opportunity for the four hundred hitters to show up you know Bernstein Right de that time so it really interests. Are there examples either from evolutionary biology or other areas where you see this skill increase and then over time it actually does revert? The skill reverts like it's worse either the skill reverts or in this case the standard deviation widens out for more of a prolonged period of time so well first of all. I mean I think the skill reverting in most things certainly physical endeavors you know. We are grinding toward physiological. Limit if you look at things like marathon times or sprinting or swimming and as you also know that times are converging so the different fitting gold. Silver Bronze is less today than it was years ago. Which is not surprising. But there can be episodes like an investing. You might ask the question. Why why did the standard deviation widen and? I'm not sure I know exactly what the answer is. But the the most certainly a couple candidates are what you want are the introduction of weaker players into the game so that you can express your skill. So this'll be like now in major league baseball instead of great news. Major League pitchers in pitching. He has some guy walks in off the street and st an amateur starts. Pitching and the equivalent in the stock market is mom and pop. Investors RE entering back into the market and. I think you'd seen a trend throughout the eighties and nineties were individuals or basically they are still invested the market mostly through mutual funds. They were much less directly involved and that reversed in the nineteen nineties that people got excited and start to drift investment. It's almost always the case when individuals get excited and start trickling investing that the story doesn't end happily for them. So I think when you see episodes of people who are less sophisticated getting involved with reasonable sums of money. That's probably the case where you could get that standard deviation blow back out again the baseball Alan and now the amateur comes into pitches a few innings and the best hitters gonna eat them up you know we. We've talked a lot about indexing and you've made the various observation that if indexing means weaker players are coming out of the market. If you're even more difficult do you have any feeling for what the tipping point was over? The last it's really three four five years where all of a sudden massive flows vanguard raising a billion dollars a day. Why now well I think there are few things and you know when you see this thing really kick into gear was probably on the heels of the financial crisis so it's call that roughly a decade little less than a decade ago. And that's where I think you start to see a little bit of the acceleration and fuel if he says the last twelve twenty four months. I think it's Department of Labor rule on fiduciary responsibility in our piece where we wrote about active versus passive. We tried to take a very long term view and look at the role of regulation and how regulations encouraged not only mutual funds in general so sort of more professional investing but also indexing as well so I think the deal well ruled self was probably pretty important specific catalysts for acceleration of indexing and it makes sense right because if you have a fiduciary responsibility and you put someone into a product that competes with the S. and P. Five hundred and they do substantially worse. You don't WanNA expose yourself any sort of liability in that regard so we spend our lives in active management to some degree. It's very sobering because the greater the skill with the paradox hardest outperform and the academic data. What you read what? Warren Buffett says all lends itself to by and large active Andrews underperform and I was surprised to read a piece that you wrote about the green paper that perhaps showed that the the academic research we all support might not be in aggregate as bad as it appears. I mean there really are. I'll say there are two papers and I'm GONNA come back to Bergen Green but there are two papers. I think that are really interesting. To frame this discussion. The first papers actually Grossman Stiglitz. So Sandy Grossman Joe Stiglitz in one thousand nine hundred eighty wrote a paper called on the impossibility of information efficient markets and their basic argument was markets. Can't perfectly information Lee officiant. Because there's a cost to gather information reflecting a prices and as fair compensation to to assume that 'cause there should be a requisite benefit and that's the first thing for people to bear in mind is that there is going to be on if we're GONNA call it a hard equilibrium but there should be some sort of equilibrium between opportunities and costs. Lhasa Pedersen's got this good phrase for this. He calls it. Markets have to be efficiently inefficient. So there has to be enough inefficiency to encourage people to continue to gather information and reflect it but can't be lots of easy pickens. Bergen Green paper from two thousand and four in burqas had some follow ups with our colleagues that are I. Think very provocative their first question was you know. Academics have been talking about efficient markets for forty years. The memo not gotten out there. You know. Wiser still active management and again two thousand four. It was still bigger than it is today and their argument was you know we're we're not really thinking about this. Exactly the right way were for example and we say what percent of funds don't beat the market if you're running one hundred billion dollars in one hundred million dollars you're both one fund right whereas the guys running hundred billions much more consequential so they came up with this basic argument where they said you know over time. Money tends to go to the more successful investors. They tend to get more. Um there is diseconomies of scale so there that means they're expected Alpha tends to drift lower but eventually things sort of sort out pretty. Well the smarter people get more money so they recommended a kind of a different way of thinking about evaluating managers. Which I think she's is really interesting. They said in the way to think about as well. I'm going to call gross profit but basically say we're looking at the gross return in the manner right so pre fee risk adjusted Monastir benchmark A. UM assets under management soon away. The Way to think about that is how much value can that manager extract from the market in dollars. And so there's a good example. They given the paper or it's more recent follow paper but the same framework they said. Look Peter Lynch Magellan Legendary Guy. I five years running Magellan guys lighting. It up he's got amazing. Alpha mazing excess returns. But he's running basically puny amount of money so by their reckoning his monthly gross profit with seven hundred seventy thousand dollars. Not Bad but you know okay. By the last five years running Magellan his Alpha was substantially lower albeit still positive so he's still in percentage terms but he's running a lot of money now right and so his monthly Alpha gross profit. Pardon me value extraction with over twenty million dollars right so the way to think about it again but smaller excess return spread on a much beer basis right so the way to think about that. Metaphorically would be playing poker one night. You're playing. You're cleaning up with a really weak players who have no money and the next day you're playing with a high stakes guys who are really skillful right. You're still winning. You're actually winning much more money. Because the stakes are much higher so when you apply the Burke that sort of framework you start to see numbers that are slightly different use at UCF. Higher so asset weighted return bent percenter funds being the market is higher percentage. What does it come to? I know the numbers are really adds wall. So if you look at if you look unweighted numbers we have these data back to probably the mid sixties but unweighted numbers about forty percent of managers beat the market in an average year and the standard deviations. Hide Seventeen percents standard deviation. So if you want to say what's probably that this fund will beat it. It's a forty percent with seventeen standard deviation if you look at it on an asset basis. The numbers go. They're not quite fifty but they ended up mid to high forty. So it's attempt to call a ten or fifteen percent off lift on that percentage basis and that's not inconsequential and of course the gross profit thing is all pre fee. And that's very important thing to bear and bear in mind so if you are extracting value from the market then the question becomes what's a fair quotes fee allocation between the manager and the and the client so forth so in Berks Work Burke ingredients work. Do they then? Measure as a percentage of invested assets. Yeah they may have done a. We did it so we just did. A number should say that just to be super crystal clear by this. We use Morningstar. Us Equity Mutual Funds Right. So it's a large universe and we got a lot of company but but a lot of funds but just bring them on that number. That number also has been grinding. Lower not inconsistent with paradoxes skill. Although it's also feels very episodic so you get these periods where we measured specifically gross profit as a percentage of assets under management exactly as you described it and this is basically the value extraction and it goes back to the same thing and this is just talk in general. Is that whenever you're investing? The key question is always. Who's on the other side of my trade? And why do I think I have some sort of an edge right? And that's that's always the question. Everyday you invest the question. You should be asking yourself. So for institutional investors writ large to be winning. There's gotta be someone on the other side of that trade and you mentioned a moment ago if the people who used to be the losers are leaving the game becomes more difficult. And what did your numbers show is? A percentage of am it's small too small percentage but the cumulative gross profit we thirty five years at numbers is about a trillion trillion net positive gross profit so gross profit positive more than okay as trillion dollars. Now that also happens to be about what the fees were in that time so net net net it kinds it turns out to be somewhat of a wash. Which is what kind of what you would expect from a big picture point of view but it remains modestly positive but again goes back to the and you know there. There's great work by other academics. Including Russ warmers at University of Maryland. Basically showing that active managers generally do generate excess returns. They're just not sufficient to cover the fees that they charge right. So it's not so it's a question of net versus last time. We saw each other University of Virginia last month. Pedro Matos professor down. There had done this paper about concentration and similarly. I don't think he had done. It waited. But he said if you looked at high active share managers and he was to finding a sixty percents I would. I would actually say that's not that high active share but those managers again you maybe went from forty percent to high forties in terms of who beat the market. So it's still hard now. Most of these studies that we cite all relatively. Smp It's focused on the US. Have you looked internationally in the in the equity markets internationally? We've done very little of that but I think you're exactly right. I always think about asset classes on a continuum of efficiency. And you know part of it's a function of the size and the value potential extraction and so forth so it is convenient pick. Us Equity Markets. Because it's roughly half the global equity capitalization and we have good data. We have going back a long way. But your points and absolutely vowed one. Which is there's a continuum of efficiency by asset classes and US SAP's probably among if not the most competitive markets in the world. So you as you move away from that you Tennessee efficiency now. The other thing I'll just mentioned about one of the one of the mottoes papers which I found fascinating. They did do a spin around the world and looked at closet. Indexing which they defined as market active share of less than sixty percent explicit indexing and active management and then looked at how different folks did and there are a couple of interesting things. Clearly there's a trend toward explicit indexing. But they found that in markets where the explicit indexing was highest. Active managers often did the best. Which which seems kind of weird but it turns out there. A couple of factors for that one is if you're an active manager in a market where there's a lot of explicit indexing you feel compelled to do something very different have basically have a high active share. You say if I'm getting paid fees to be an actor manager I better not be closet into. I should really try to do something different. That's for the interesting thing is and the second is. If there's a lot of explicit indexing shines a light on on fees so active managers tend to charge charge lower fees and by the way. That's the other thing about big funds not surprisingly big funds on average charge lower fees than smaller funds. And that's another that's another thing that contributes to their relative performance relative to smaller funds. So it's an interesting thing and look. It's a perpetual game. I mean there's always there always have to be efficiencies and they're always have to be ways to try to capture those things but they're always moving targets right. Michael Your new seat here at Blue Mountain is a credit shop as you shine a credit lens on some of these same issues. What have you found in the early months here? Well I think you know. Blue Mountain has multiple strategies so credit is being one of them but there are equities and semantic equities and distress and so forth. I guess look there are two basic elements one. Is that okay at first? I should say oh we. I've always been a believer that it's very useful. Even if you're an equity investor credit investor to understand what's going on in other markets so if you're an equity investor you should understand what's going on the credit markets the options markets and CDs markets credit investor shed equities and so forth right. So just having other touchdowns I think is incredibly valuable for you to get a full context of what's going on. But if you step back and think about investment process and some of the things we do here are not necessarily purely fundamental. There are two things that are that are consistent. One is there is fundamental analysis. Which is how our businesses going to perform whether you're a credit investor distress investor or equity investor. That's going to be relevant. So those sets of tools are going to be important and the second thing which spans probably everything we do not just here but anybody who's making investment is really about decision making and decision making is. That's the common denominator of all investing. Were out capital allocation in general and at the end of the day to me a lot of investing capital allocation decisions. Boil down to ads probabilities. Now comes and trying to be on the right side of expected values so yeah so notwithstanding the fact that there may be different strategies and people doing so many different things you can you can distill these things now. Typically to some common nominators that are going to be relevant for everybody. And what are those most important ones for decision-making? Why do I said a moment ago? I do think it's probabilities and outcomes. But the challenges is how do we? How do we screw those up right? So couple themes on mentioned one of the ones that I've been very excited about its work on base rates and this is really. The this is really is associated. Mostly with Danny Conman. But it's this idea that when you're thinking about any kind of a forecast it's incredibly important to understand rig knowledge the reference class from which this problem comes and to wait your own views with the evidence you have from the reference class so let me try to make that slightly more concrete with one example. In March of this year. The Economist ran a cover story on Amazon. Dot Com Amazon's awesome right. An analyst in their suggested that Amazon would be able to grow its revenues fifteen percent a year through the year. Twenty twenty five and by the way you know they did one hundred and three billion in two thousand fifteen hundred thirty six billion last year. They're on track to do one hundred seventy seven billion this year. So right. They're coming out of the gates clearly head of that pace so that's the inside view. That's sort of analysts. You and by the way if I sat down with that analyst. I'm sure they would have an amazing model. Where they go business by business and they build it up and it'd be very compelling the outside view right the base rate would say. Let's look at the sweep of history while I'm exaggerating. But we went back to nineteen fifty. Let's look at every company that had initial revenues of one hundred billion or more so obviously adjusted for inflation and look at how they did in their subsequent. Growth rates are next ten years and by the way because this is such rarefied space one hundred billion. They're only three hundred and thirteen examples of this but three hundred thirteen not zero and it turns out no companies ever grown fifteen percent a year and only seven have grown more than ten percent. So seven out of three hundred thirteen two percent now my Amazon. Absolutely what probability would you wanNA place on that and the answer is probably not going to be your base case right? It's probably going to be something like if you're very optimistic you should be measured and what your probabilities. And so that's the thing that makes us great line and thinking fast and slow. He basically says you know people who are doing their own work. Don't feel like they need to understand the reference class but understanding the reference class. Almost always makes you a better thinker. So that's one that's one big thing and then there are just tons of biases there. Things like overconfidence. We tend to be overconfident. And as we think about the future which which means often are range of outcomes or too narrow confirmation bias. Heck if you're in the investing business and you haven't fallen for this one you're not. You're not doing your job and you know we all do it. It's just you make a decision. You seek information that confirms your point of view and you dismissed disavow Discount Information. That doesn't and it's just a very natural thing for all of us to do so. It's our constant battle with ourselves right to think about these things probabilistically and to be very systematic about it. Spent time either on boards or with the alligator community that I spent a lot of time with and through that. What are some of the lenses that US whether it's base rates behavioral biases luck and skill as it applies to allocators? You know the closest thing Ted and I don't know if it counts but the club have done a fair bit with investment committees which is probably related and by the way some of the work on investment committees has really encouraged me to do a lot of work just teams in general. But let's call committees in general and so I think there are three. There are really three things that I've drawn from that literature. That Adam ate my thinking about this. The first is the size of a committee or the size of a team. And you know there's been a lot of work on this. The main guy that comes to mind is Richard. Hackman is a professor at Harvard and he studied teams across all different disciplines and found the optimal tie size was forty six and there was actually a really interesting survey of investment committees in particular and they basically every person who's on a committee of seven or more says we'd be more effective. We are smaller or we would not be more effective but we have bigger right. So that's a really interesting thought is just how many people are on your committee. And by the way I'm chairman of the Board of the San to we probably have twenty five or you know twenty five ish people on our board. Nothing's happening at a board meeting. I should should go. Nothing's happened all. The work is happening at the committee level right which is the small groups and then the board. You're sort of you know okay. So there there are political reasons or other reasons people could be on these committees. That may or may not be good for decision making so. That's the first team size and the second sort of team composition and the big point of emphasis here is is while we talk a lot about diversity which is almost always social category diversity race gender age ethnicity and so forth. The real key is cognitive diversity of people with different experiences and backgrounds and training and personalities that can surface different points of view. And that's really the key to I think good quality decision making and so there are mechanisms. And we we actually do them here. But we spend time talking about these mechanisms to make sure that we're servicing different alternatives within that committee. But that I think is really really key things. It's very. It seems to me very typical in an investment committee is to say we're going to our committee is going to have the credit guy and the private equity guy or Gal and so forth and so anytime we make a credit decision. We rely on the woman that does that. And so there's a lot of evidence that shows. That's not really the way you want to do. These things you want to let everybody weigh in on everything else and then the the final things how we actually make decisions and I've always thought that in the world of investing it's just really rare to have an honest consensus you know. Most good investment ideas are controversial. It's very rare that everyone says this is obviously brilliant. Obviously Lean Ryan so. I'm a big fan of ballot. Voting Systems maybe strong majority but majority vowed bow voting systems that people vote independently and so those are some of the things that I think are important now. The other thing that I think you're you know you know much more about this idea. But there's just an incredible literature both individuals and institutions demonstrate. That people tend to have bad timing right in other words. There are a lot of reasons you fire manager but the number one reasons performance has been poor lotteries. You hire manager but truth be told number. One reason jar in the performance has been good and we know that Study after study demonstrates that if you bought the funds that were fired and so sold the ones that were hired you actually just because of regression toward the mean. You do much better. So that's the other thing is in Bowie. It's totally human nature. Your Committee have your ten funds. These done the threes three of done grade these three done battling like. Why do we own these bad ones? Why don't we own more the good ones? It's like human nature but you have to resist that temptation because regression is such a powerful mechanism investing and that component of confirmation bias. We're even if you lay out the reasons why you think this is an excellent manager and the risks of why that might be a week manager. What happens is in these groups when the manager underperforms say a how we were right and not only that the manager is not as good as we thought because these risks played out. So there's this awareness and cognition of chasing performance and confirmation bias. But it happens anyway which is kind of astounding. Yeah that's the other thing about a lot of these behavioral things he's biases that they happen even if you're totally aware of them. They still really hard to circumvent. So you do have to create mechanisms to try to be effective as possible to to address. Is there secular mechanism that you found you touch manning writing things down is really helpful and just and just for someone to be aware? Ted You just said which is hey you know. I know that we had pros and cons for manager acts and they've underperforms now we're only dwelling on the cons. Let's let's revisit the pros right or vice versa. Right these guys are doing great. We're patting ourselves on the back. But let's remember these things we were concerned about in. Those things may still rear their heads. So I want to circle back to sort of forming a team or a committee as the case may be if we're aware of this concept of cognitive diversity. How do you go about either interviewing someone for your team or selecting someone if it's a committee and become aware of what their cognitive biases and how that within coalesce into a higher functioning team we all have biases right so it's just a question of degree a couple of things come to mind? The first is just in cognitive diversity. It's just be willing to cast a wider net than you might be comfortable casting so people who have very different backgrounds by the way one of the reasons. I've really enjoyed listening to your podcast. Is You find these people who have been very successful in the allocation community who have sort of these quirky backgrounds and. I'm like that's really awesome right. It just shows you that it doesn't you don't have to be some finance major. Whatever it is you know. That's the first thing and just being being willing to entertain those people so people have weird backgrounds. Bring them on board the second thing. I'll just mentioned. There's a strand of work that I just love. I also think would be a nice complement to this. And that's worked by Keith. Stana Vich incentive which has made this really important distinction between IQ which measures some very real helpful more of it tends to be better than what he calls arche rationality question which is the ability to make good decisions. About a year ago a little over a year ago published a book called the rationality quotient with a couple colleagues in a lays out for the first time sort of an assessment of rational thinking and now might be a very nice compliment to this so find people sort of weird background but essentially test them or assess them on their ability to think rationally and it could be that combination that might be the sweet spot for for success. What do you think are the biggest risks in the markets today? That's a hard one to answer it. Certainly not in the forecasting business. I guess what makes me feel least settled or unsettled? Is that just the very low levels of volatility that we've realized and I think one could make a case for why vaults should be lower and there may be some arguments that are reasonable that said having been around for a long time and having charts going on volatility going back to the eighteen hundreds we know that at least historically volatility tends to be clustered so we appeared at very low volatility interspersed with periods of very high fault. He said to me like what is the thing I worry the most about it would be that we have some sort of regime change in volatility that will catch people off guard now. Historically sometimes lovato encourages action article today in the Wall Street Journal. This is the end of December suggesting that you know banks are becoming trying to encourage money managers to borrow more right. And it's very clear. Temptation right because you have low returns and low volatility borrowing leverage is one way to get your returns up so that would that would be one thing that concerns me there. I think that there are other things that I find interesting. I know they should be concerned. But you remember August. Two Thousand Seven quant meltdown. We've obviously seen a substantial increase in sort of quantitative systematic strategies by large. I'm fine with that. I think that makes sense but I do wonder to what degree some strategies may be correlated in ways that we don't really understand into how some of these algorithms will behave in period stress. I think is unknown so that that's always a point of worry and then the other typical stuff. Which is I think we have a difficult time just in general's understanding anticipating any sort of geopolitical problems. And so that those are put those down to the standard concerns at all times but I think the thing this sort of for me front and center is this notion of just very low volatility and I saw an interesting chart and went back probably fifty years but looked at the average volatility for this and p five hundred and the average basis point change in the ten year. Treasury note and if you plot those things on the x axis imagined just average volatility for the S. and P. Five hundred on the Y. Axis change in yield of the ten year note. You plot these things. We're in the extreme left bottom corner right very little change in the the Treasury note very little change in the US and P five hundred again going back to base rates. You were to make a bet you an unlikely to persist back in that spot. So treasure rates are really low. So when you start with that denominator you you have to be on the left side. You'RE GONNA be on the left side no matter more. I think to your point. It's volatile the S. and P. The two novelist and by the way the going back to even the paradox of skill in the small variance in performance of active managers part of that's also a function of the volatility being low and we can demonstrate that. So you know. It's very difficult to distinguish yourself either. Favourably or unfavourably when the volatility of the markets are very low. Have you looked at all in the area of liquidity? And what's going on with? Et FS and other places. Where have this sort of strange bull market? Where when you talk to per participants they feel like there's very little trading liquidity in particularly so in some of the credit markets. Yeah I guess. Liquidity is another that I do have concerns and I think you're right most of the volume for example. Etf's it'd be things like the spider which is yes NPR hydrogen. There's just not. There's unlikely to be a big issue there but you point out we've had this massive proliferation and especially into credit markets. And you know one we could just pick would be high yield and the instruments are much more liquid than the underlying and that might be the scenario you might imagine. So how do people get freaked out about? Etf in general and we can call indexing writ large and it could be something like that which is there are some sort of stress and high yield market. The don't trade very well. Relative to the underlying and there are articles in all the newspapers saying gee tarnished good as we thought they were that spooks people and then people have a difficult time. Distinguishing between something. It's illiquidity as liquid and so forth and then becomes like somewhat of a cascading effect. There's been a lot of lot of work done on. Liquidity of course dealer inventories are way down. And I just don't think we've tested it. Because many of traditional tests of liquidity are things like bid offer spreads and realized prices. But you can't really test it in non stressed environment so if we get into stress environment. That would be another thing. You're exactly right. That would be another issue. These all kind of go together you get evolved until the increase you have concerns about liquidity and it becomes the amplifying effects that could that could freak people out so. I can't pass up the opportunity to turn the conversation to sports. I know that you have crossed over your your book. Success equation had some really great. You know whether it's paradox of skill or other anecdotes and I also know from our conversations that you're fairly plugged in with a lot of the data junkies in the sports world. Why don't I just open it up and ask you? What's most interesting to you today about the hybrid of Data and Sports? Well I mean it's amazing to me that we are thinking about games in ways that we hadn't thought about before opening up our minds just a couple of things come to mind immediately. The first is not sports per se but even things like Alpha go and Alpha. Zero is mind. Boggling in the sense first of all the advancements in that how those things became superhuman now we knew that was going to happen with some probability but more. Interestingly to me is when I watch I listened to the great whether go players are chessplayers. They say these programs are playing moves. That just weren't even our mental repertoire. And we're learning from him. Some of these moves. In retrospect a really beautiful so it's like opening up our our mental space which is super interesting and then the second is just changes in actual strategies in games and the famous one is of course just shifts in baseball. You say for Baseball Plate for one hundred twenty five years and pretty much the same things off send people realize well. We now know where these guys tend to hit the ball. We're going to just put defenders in those spots right and the other one to totally fascinating is for example the evolution of the three point shot and basketball and teams like the Houston Rockets. Were basically say we want to be either three pointers or basically lay ups like at the Rim or three point and I was talking to actually a basketball executive about this not long ago and he said we're actually nowhere near the point of saturation. On three point shooting. He was given the percentages. We could move people back off the three point line two or three more feet right before the problem. Their their percentages go down sufficient dominant steph curry phenomenon. Right and then of course the very fact that everyone's doing this is encouraging people to practice more. Get better at it and so and so well. That's that recurs of one of my favorite books. The last two years was big database ball. Which was this Pittsburgh? Pirate the love that yeah. It's what happens after you understand moneyball right and these sort of repeat game theory the same thing with new data right and thing that blew me away from that. Nap book which I hadn't really thought much about was pitch framing so this and that goes back to the human element as well right that these catchers the idea that these catchers can position themselves to catch pitches in such a way that the umpire calls it a strike instead of a ball and some catchers are better at it than others and simply bringing in a pitcher catcher party. Who's really good at pitch? Framing can lead to the number seemed to me like unbelievable it's over a season substantial delta in the number of games one so that stuff like that and that's a human that's a competent perfect analytics and the Human Dimension Right. Then I'm right now. I'm reading score casting which you know one of those key insights date. They study homecourt advantage and baseball. And shockingly because we think of it as oh well the Yankees just picked up into short porch in left field and it was entirely the empires subconscious bias in key moments calling into a borderline pitch a strike for the home team right and actually you notice. I was actually talking about the same basketball exact talking about this as well. And you know it's the same thing it's like you know you have your the home team. You Got Twenty Thousand Rabid fans you know how you GonNa make the calls. You're right like they. You make a call. They like they all cheer. You may call. They don't like the L. Booze like okay. That's the feedback over time. You know I don't know how subconscious or conscious it is but yeah you could see how that would work anyway. It's really isn't that? Yeah so I love all that stuff and you know some people feel like it takes some of the excitement out of it. I actually don't feel that way at all and by the way is seems to me. They're still huge opportunities out there. It's amazing that even like in the NFL where they're huge stakes. There's still a lot of sub optimal decisions. Made you know the famous one is fourth going for it on fourth down and their other sports you know. I think soccer is coming along but a sports like ice hockey where it's really still very early. Days in terms understand what we can do differently and so forth. So I I. I find the stuff to be fascinating. That's one of the things that you know. Especially coming up with these sort of counterintuitive or things that we just didn't think were good ideas and being better idea than the framing of all the psychological biases too because in sports you mentioned going for it on fourth down which is proven to be a successful strategy. Pretty much wherever you are on the field and then of course in basketball you have the underhand free throw. Yeah which is and I'm trying to remember was a Gladwin who Malcolm glad will awesome podcast on that and apparently that day that will chamberlain score one hundred points in Hershey Pennsylvania. He shooting underhand free throws and made like ninety percent of them and it was like one was captured on tape and apparently it was kind of a one off. He just did it a few times. But you know and that was the whole point right for the other side of his life. The well known personal side of his life. I couldn't possibly should underhand free social capital. But you know I'll say Ted. The one thing that that fully appreciate this is that I do think that there's an element of career risk and this. This spans not just sports but also investment management. Right which is bill. Belichick goes down and it doesn't work out people give them the benefit of the Dow. But if you're a coach who's got a five hundred team maybe the correct decision but you lose that game people. Don't think about the quality of your decision making process. I do think about the outcome. And that's a real big problem. So so these guys might be saying you know five punt it We MAY LOSE THE GAME. But no one's going to say you know. Ted Punted that was whereas if you go so I I think there's that element as well as go. What's the what gives me the best probability sticking in my seat and the Society of in the Investment Management Side? Scott Malpass is Andy. Golden State Swenson's of the world can try things with no career risk. That someone who's two three four years in a new seat couldn't possibly risk and it's probably the same thing if you think of stage of money management organization totally thought in your discussion with Scott. He mention one thing that I thought was really interesting. And I hadn't thought much about which was extraordinary continuity of their committees and and sort of leadership and that's another one you know I've been working for you with you for ten fifteen years or even five got experience when I know that your decision making processes good. I can cut you much more slack. And that's something we do have its APPs in our industry and that gets another issue I think also for capital allocators which is what is an appropriate timeframe to evaluate decisions and so forth and. That's a really tricky. I would say that some of the academic work and some assimilation work suggests that the time horizons a little bit longer than it is practically but the flipside is a farm unallocated and I have some underperforming. I don't really don't know if it's just a good process. It's having a tough spell or they've lost their marbles right and then those are you know sometimes those are not easy distinctions to make so I get the how tricky it is but it is an industry where you know it's the marathon not the sprint. Let's turn to your work. Were involvement with the Santa Fe Institute and Similarly. I mean there's so we've had some fascinating conversations about some of the things that you learn. But why don't you start with? What is the Santa Fe Institute and then maybe share a story were to that comes to your mind? Yeah so the Santa Fe Institute was founded in mid nineteen hundred s by a number very eminent scientists who had a very similar sensation. That much of academia has become very silo D- so the physicist talked to the physicist no biologist biologist but that many vaccine and most important issues in the world or at the intersections disciplines if you go to Stanford University I mean even go to Yale. Awesome place but it's still quite silo. D- in many ways. So they started this institute which was meant to be transdisciplinary and the unifying theme is the study of Complex Systems and complex. Systems are pretty easy to articulate. It's a bunch of agents will calm heterogeneous agents. They could be neurons in your brain people. In the city of New York of course investors in the market we allow them. Interact with one another and through that interaction. We get this concept called emergence and then you get a global system whether that's consciousness or your immune system or the operations of the city New York of course markets. So how does this all work would different scales so that to me? So we have again this hodgepodge from from computer scientists physicists. To to psychologist all working on these kinds of problems and our mission involved in not really emission is just. It's just and by the way it's basic research it's not policy oriented. I learned about. Ssi I a little over. Twenty years ago. From Bill Miller who preceded me as chairman of the Board and bill in particular had been drawn in by some of the work by Brian. Arthur an economist. There and I'll mention sort of like what are these big big ideas so brian was a professor at Stanford and had done this work on this concept called increasing returns. It's much more accepted today than it was when you start working on this but we are taught in microeconomics. And there's a lot of reason for this is that returns. Marginal returns tend to migrate toward the cost of capital high return. On capital businesses attract competition which driver turns down and so forth and Bryan had identified situations. What he called increasing returns where there was no regression towards the mean. There's actually repulsion from means winners. Were winning losers were losing and he identified sort of the qualities and features and things like network effects. Things we talk more about and that was completely out. There was completely crazy. In fact. Many people in the traditional economics field frowned on it. So that was one example of something once. I understood by the way I've always thought. Efficient market hypothesis was in a sense. I never thought it was literally true but it's always a very beautiful construct. I to me is a wonder and I still feel that way mini mini regards. But then I started understand. Markets is a complex adaptive system. An adaptive is really important because it means the agents in this case investors are coming have decisional on how they behave but those decision rules themselves adapt based on the environment right so the market itself so this is what Soros calls reflexively the markets themselves reflect on how you behave and back and forth right. So there's this feedback loop between these Susan. Once you start thinking about. Markets is complex adaptive systems. I don't think you can ever you can ever think about it in any other way. Interestingly by the way I think the market is complex systems both explains why markets tend to be efficient. This is the wisdom of crowds concepts but also explains why markets episodically go haywire. Which they clearly do. And you read books like Andrew. Lau's new book called adaptive markets which is great adaptive markets. I think is fundamentally a statement or restatement of markets is complex adaptive system. So I think it's just an incredibly rich way to think about the world if it's anything pure things we see for example like cluster volatility and allows us to understand why this is one of the fallacies behavioral economics which is the fact that you and I are sub optimal. It's easy for us to show that we're suboptimal as individuals that doesn't necessarily translate into a market setting right because our heirs may cancel out your overconfident you buy. I'm over confidential. It's a wash right basically so it's kind of captures a lot of that stuff. The one thing I'll say I mean there are just many ideas that commodified that are really cool. But there's one there was a book that came out earlier this year which. I recommended everybody. I speak with is is Jeffrey West. New Book called scale and Jeffries a physicist by training a former President Institute. And what he does. He use basically physics to explain some of the empirical regularities we see in biological systems and that by the way is wondrous start but in carries out onto social systems including cities and how cities operate and even working corporations. So we have all these really interesting empirical regularities that have been observed for a long time and folks at us at high SORTA unpack it. Which is so exciting right and so by the way you get the sense of it. The people who are attracted as if I tend to be people entries in lots of different topics so huge self selection so people go out there. Almost every conversation have is going to be a fascinating conversation with people. From all different walks of life recall. I spent a couple of weeks or a couple summers ago and I remember sitting down with a line. You have lunch together and there was this raging debate about whether a horse could be to human marathon. And I'm like where else do you sit down? And it's not just a discussion as well as a former marathon at the two sides could beat a horse. The question was whether horses can't go that they can't go for twenty six miles so the question is could you train a horse to do it or not and you know you can train a human and so this goes back to the whole thing about you. Know is the reason. Humans are humans because we can run for a long time and BIPEDAL allows us to capture animals and so on so far so anyway it was initiative. But it's Kinda like who's having these kinds of conversations. What's the next big piece of research that you're working on so we have a couple of things that we're working on now? I've been spending a lot of time thinking about the idea of comparing things and it sounds very trivial right but as humans. We compare things all the time and it turns out. There's actually been a big area studying cognitive psychology and by the way the the short answer is that the number one way we used to compare things is by analogy. This is like that and that is incre. That approach is incredibly effective. If you've got the appropriate analogy right but it breaks down pretty quickly in terms of breadth and depth in other words. Usually you know you might have a great memory. But it's probably finite and so you you may not remember the appropriate analogy or no the appropriate analogy and then depth. Is this idea that you may pick the wrong things morong features of both of the things. The focal analogy to make an appropriate comparison so it gets into things like 'cause -ality versus correlation and so forth and then at the you know toward the end of this piece we try to talk about how to deal with these things in a new stuff. We've talked a little bit about things like base rates and so forth. We're doing a lot of work and relates to concerns about low volatility and liquidity on pro-cyclicality. So how do we think about loose credit and tight credit and I think the sort of bedrock a lot of that work will be that of John G Nikopoulos at Yale who wrote of some papers on the Leverage Cycle Johns? I think very provocative point is that it's not about interest rates. It's about margin requirements. It's about the ability to borrow and we tend to think that if we lower interest rates the world is going to be better and we raise interest. It's going to be loose tight anything. That's not really the key thing. It's it's whether so you saw this in the wake of the financial crisis where rates were obviously down but it was very difficult for people borrow still even to buy a home or whatever was so wasn't the interest rate it was the collateral and I've assumed those things normalized over time that in an economic system for the most part when rates are lower. There's more borrowing more margin. Yeah may not be the case. And that's the thing that you just think about the wake of the financial crisis we sort of e even this coordinated central bank rates. It's not it's not been an interest rate problem. It's been you can't borrow easily and to your point. Yeah I mean when things are good you tend to get access to capital. So that's an interesting. You can just take a look at this and see collateral requirements over time and they tend to be very liberal when things are doing well and they tend to be very strict when things are doing badly and again you want the opposite you WanNa take the punch bowl away when things are rocking and rolling and you want to bring him back when things depressing so that's just a that's another thing that's really interesting. There's there's some fascinating gate on that and you were obviously as a framework but also try to get a level set of kind of where we stand today. I have been thinking a lot about this topic of you know it's almost always the case. Regulators are fighting yesterday's battles. I don't suspect leverage is GONNA BE THE NEXT BIG CHALLENGE. I do think liquidity might be might be the case Rick Books. They've got a new book by the way called. The theory and rick talks a little bit but he's got a couple of chapters dedicated to this and I think there's some that's worth paying attention to for sure we are. GonNa turn to me as you'd expect some closing questions but before that our friend Morgan House all had this wonderful quote came on twitter. That said the most underrated investing skills are controlling your emotions and having your career coincide with a thirty year decline in interest rates. So is you and I sit here with this. Sobering reality of how incredibly difficult active management is however we measure it we can try to measure it in ways that they maybe. It's not as bad as certain studies show at a simple level for N. Warren Buffett will come out and say oh just index. It's that simple okay. Maybe not pick. What the index and whether whether the US has the right market as an individual as a person whose career has been in researching active management understanding. How it all works? And then you have someone as brilliant as warranting and forget all that because at the end of the day it all balances itself out. Are there mornings where you wake up and say? Maybe I should apply this prodigious skilled in researching to things that will be different. That chance of winning. That are you know have some better feeling of fulfillment. I don't know if these things are totally contradictory so I I'm in the same campus off and others were. I would say that if you're not interested in investing and you're not willing to spend a Lotta time and attention on it. Indexing is probably a very sensible thing to do at diversified index portfolio. Your discussion with Scott Malpass and think Scott made a comment that struck me. I don't know if it's right. But he said you know. He said they're probably thirty. Or fifty allocators in the world in the states in the world. That can really figure out. Who's skillful on? How to do this and the rest you guys. Don't try this right thank you know. And I think there's something to be said for two that for that. That said you know being an organization that does seek active management. You know there are weird things out there. I mean there are inefficiencies. There we call them the easy games. There are situations where there are opportunities to generate excess returns. But you need to be focused on those. You need to diligent and hardworking and so forth so I'm trying to have it both ways. I think you can't have it both ways to some degree so if I had a holiday party if I an aunt and uncle says how do I invest I would probably say you know? Indexing probably does make sense for you but for people are more sophisticated. We'll have the time and energy and resource. I think they probably can't think about how to generate these excess returns and again. It's a moving target right. That's the other thing to recognize. Is that different? Asset classes have different periods of degrees of inefficiencies. And always to think about in your mind. Category cataloging why you think this is something securities miss price and there are good reasons things. Mis-priced I mean. There's been literature on Spin Offs for a long time. There's been literatures on institutions visit individuals. There are people are four sellers. There are people who are forced buyers. And they're doing things that are non economic or for non economic reasons and those can present opportunities for those side. I'm still going to push you on this. Because all of that is true. I agree with it why I'm passionate about the business. But at the same time the stats would tell you that. It's still all washes out that. If you're good at picking off those things you probably are going to have too much money news opportunities and so for you as an individual. Do you ever have the point where you say this is just I mean. I do think it's hard and I do think you have to be measured about. What is you have to just be thoughtful about all these things? Like what is an appropriate amount of capacity? And you're exactly right. I mean this goes back to what Charlie also talk. That was another great conversation. You sort of this. Great Model at Charles has argued about. Which is the business in the profession and the business is about generating fees and revenues and the professions about generating excess returns. And Charlie makes the point which is right you need. You need a healthy business to pursue the profession appropriately but you don't WanNa let the pendulum swing toward the business away from profession. That's that's the big. That's a big challenge. Some incredibly mindful of is that is that topic so you know. I guess I'm I'm still trying to have my cake and eat AC- which I think that there is some balance but he raises a really important issues and you know at Lake Mason capital management. We you know the the the a you got to sixty five or seventy billion dollars. It's a lot harder to run. Seventy billion dollars in. It is to run seven billion dollars in. It is seven hundred million dollars and that's something you always have to take into consideration. Okay here we go. What was your favorite sports moment? And for you both as a participant and then separately as a fan was a fan probably. This might be a little cliche but man. Nineteen Eighty Olympic. Hockey team is a hard one to beaten Al Michaels call on that and now I was in highschool. I still play ice hockey today so I was really an avid ice hockey fan. And that was you know you play that game one hundred times. I don't know the Russians Ninety eight or whatever it is so I'll tell you the very first live hockey game. I saw 'cause nineteen eighty. I was ten years old. Was the Madison Square Garden. Warm-up oh yeah where the Russians they pulled us. It was two weeks before that's awesome. Yes that's a good one for me. Personally I mean this is gonNA sound ridiculous but I played a lot. I play Lacrosse in College. And played in some tournaments. And you know I think it was ten years ago. I was on a team. We only had thirteen or fourteen guys. Which is too few. Is that a tournament. Unveil the categories called Super Masters. Which tells you of a certain age and we had this team. That just wouldn't quit and we we won this one game over time for big underdogs and we beat a team from Navy team from Hobart and we won that championship. Now is just a really gratifying. You know sort of like the real underdog thing we had a couple of guys just did an amazing job but yeah that was Dallas. Probably for me. My personal sports highlight and great. What teaching from your parents has most stayed with you? You know it's interesting. My house now sold books and and I think that hopefully that's something that that will rub off on my kids to some degree. I grew up in a house without any books for the most part and TV watching and so it might work out for. Yeah so it's really interesting so in a sense. I wasn't in that environment but but from both my parents and especially my father just very meticulous and doing the job the proper way and I would have to mow the lawn and he would review my work and if I miss despotic ISMI inappropriate. You'd send me back out and of course when you're ten or twelve year old kid. That's the last thing you WANNA do. But it's this idea. Just be meticulous and being thoughtful about things and doing the job the right way and you know. There's a section the Steve. Jobs book where his father taught taught him about. You know it was like finishing the back end of something that no one would ever see but it was just the right thing to do right and that was my father. He was the kind of guy that that always wanted to do. A meticulous job leave everything really just a job. Well done so that that this idea of like being a perfectionist. But it's really just trying to do things properly all the time so I kind of have to ask with five kids. Were Hugh have had you try to do that on your kids when there's probably something going on all the I'm not sure parent for all that kind of stuff. No I think yeah part of its by example. Parv it is. Yeah it's just probably communicating. You know a little bit in when the kids were little. Tell them to do certain things like go to bed or whatever but I try not to tell my kids to do anything I try to offer recommendations or things to think about and and try to get him to think for themselves a little bit here. Here's some things to think about. Here's here's something. I recommend. Just take this into consideration and more times than not. They'll see where I'm coming from so yeah and and doing the doing job done you know. Even if I'm trying to help them with their homework whatever. It's just this idea like making sure you you do everything you should be doing do it. Well have pride in it and so forth. So it's just it's effort right. It's it's a Carol Duet Stop. It's mindset it's effort. It's hard work. What information do you read the vast amounts that you do that you think others might not know about but would benefit from an information interesting word in and of itself? I for better for worse than many days. I think is worse but for better for worse I probably spend a lot of time. Thinking about more frameworks than I like mental models than I do nuts and bolts. And the reason I'm a big mental model fan as I do think that when ideas are thrown at you if you have a framework lattice work to hang it on. You're going to be much more effective. One example I get is like this is a pretty nuts and bolts example but if for example we have a framework for thinking about mergers and acquisitions and how to evaluate the quality of an emanate. Deal and I just found as an analyst over the years and a strategist and so forth that analysts. Almost every deal. It's like a one off right there. They're analyzing it without framework and if you have a framework for it it just allows you to put things in the context analyze it quicker to be more accurate and so forth so probably is the the what information but more like. I'm very committed for better for worse some days. It's worse to mental models and thinking about big mental models by the way I'm a buffet fan. I know you're buffet van. I learned probably more from Munger where I've taken a pri- taking more from Charlie mongers work over the years and I'm just such a huge fan of this understanding big ideas from different disciplines understanding that constant learning will lead you down a number of intellectual cul de sacs but you never know when a framework or model or or something will be useful to you and this idea of constant learning. I'm just a huge just such a big deal in this industry by the way it's just you can't live without it right todd. Combs when my students were I mean you you talk those guys and how much time they spend reading and thinking the standard it's astounding and and they're obviously the best of what they do but recognizing this not about shuffling paper it's ripe thinking and that's what these they how they can make such big decisions in short short periods of time. The answer is because they've thought about stuff right. What life lesson. Have you learned that you wish you knew a lot earlier in your life? They're less life lessons but I think I do think that there are so many a couple mental models me so so the first and foremost thing is that I guess a couple of mine. One is just in terms of personal habits. It's very good for young people to recognize that sleeping properly. Eating properly and exercising properly are incredibly essential and your productivity will really go up if you do those things properly and I was probably Ted you guys too but for years and years. I thought and especially with young kids. You know the drill you think you can get by on a lot less sleep than you can an and it's almost it. There's there's a degree of cognitive impairment that comes with that so so that's the first one the second thing is just. You can't emphasize enough. That hard work really important. In invested industry. Hard work is not necessarily spending sixteen hours. Your desk it's constantly thinking in reading and learning right so but hardworking applying yourself. Let's say it that way and then there are a couple of mental models that I really do wish I had known much younger and the big one is is that inside outside view this idea of understanding past performance and how that applies and you know as we go through life everything. Fee- feels unique to you. You know you're moving from from New York to Boston. It feels like you're the first guy have done that but many people have done it before right and so what does that you know? How do I think about reference classes and hallows hosts can inform my decision making so that that sort of mental model would be something else outside right? It's it's the last years of your life. I've given up trying to throw a number preview. Probably a hundred and twenty. You are in a rocking chair cradling. Your lacrosse stick. What advice would you give yourself today? Yeah I mean I think that the end of the at the end the day and these are really interesting questions you know tool. Guang wrote that beautiful book being more 'til about the end of life and I think you realize that the end of the day that what makes humans most happy is ultimately relationships and family and friends and so forth so probably the advice would be just never lose sight of that. There are a lot of little bumps that come a long road and these are things that are addressable but that keeping relationships at the focus is really important. I also think it's interesting that as you get older. It's probably really important to continue to stay in touch with young people now. It's easy when you have kids. It's sort of a natural to some degree and that's helpful but it could be even intellectually is just making sure that you're constantly exposed to young people who who have just have different point of view of the world and so that would be another thing. It's just to make sure that you hang out with new and young people that have different ideas and your open those Michael. Thank you so much outstanding as always my pleasure thank you. Thanks for listening to this episode. I hope you found a nugget or two to take away and apply in your investing. And you're if you've liked what you've heard please review on itunes or Google. Play to help others find out about the show. Have a good one and see next time.

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107: Nick Bayer  Make Life Better

Self Made Strategies

54:30 min | Last week

107: Nick Bayer Make Life Better

"You're listening to all new episode of self maze strategies visit self strategies dot com for episodes information about our guests and a whole lot more. Welcome to episode one. Oh seven of the self-made strategies podcast on this episode. Where sitting down with. Nick bayer founder and ceo of saks coffee. Nick has always been in the business of bringing people together. Whether it says one of philadelphia business journal's most admired ceo's or as a consummate team captain since literally so when he create its axes in two thousand and five. Nick never really considered it a coffee company instead. It's a social impact company. Fueled by amazing food beverage and hospitality. Philadelphia-based sack spy's has since grown from one corner cafe to nearly thirty units with a singular mission. Make life better sack. Spy's is a hospitality business. Fueled by great coffee. They pair the local friendly atmosphere of a neighborhood coffee shop with consistently delicious products. That you'd find a big name coffee place today. The team at saxby spends over seven hundred members across the northeast that represent the change makers of tomorrow in two thousand fifteen. Nick introduced saxby pioneering experiential learning platform or lp in partnership with drexel university. The nation's first entirely student run cafe where students earn full academic credit in wages through university cooperative education platform knicks vision for the platform is to embolden the next generation of entrepreneurs providing undergrad students with tangible experience as a supplement to traditional classroom learning since two thousand fifteen one. Lp cafe has blossomed into twelve. You'll hear nick. And i discussed the e. l. p. program and what students. Ceo's can learn and experience from running a million dollar business on their own. Nick is joining us today to discuss how he developed the concept for sack spy's and a system that's repeatable and scalable by college students. Here are the self-made strategies of nick. Bayer nick thank you much for joining us. Really appreciate i know. You're super busy. Especially dealing with the pandemic still were recording. This right at the beginning of twenty twenty one in this episode will air about a week after we record it so I i know you're super busy. And you need to get back to what you're doing to keep sack spy's afloat through all of this but i'm really curious about how this all came about so you graduate from cornell university in two thousand. Obviously you're interested in entrepreneurship. Did you have the idea for. Saxby is right away. Or or how did that process go for developing the idea for taxis and then executing on it and launching it right. Yeah i mean first of all. Thanks so much for having me. I always love the opportunity to be able to talk about tax beads. The i think one of the best rates for me to be able to learn oftentimes is to talk about things. And then think about what i've talked about and jeb will react to things i always well the opportunity to talk about the trials and tribulations of buildings actors especially with really interesting and smart people like yourself and your path where you are today is is really inspiring so So i appreciate the opportunity to chat with you I guess the other question of. Why did the idea for socks come to me. When i was in school. No it definitely not In many ways aren't even mean this to sound like funny gave us actors is still coming together. You know it's The the idea of me creating a mission driven I guess entrepreneurial but really it was not entrepreneurial time but really like this this idea of doing something mission driven with my professional career is something that was probably eighteen years in the making by the time i had gotten a cornell but i certainly did not do not realize it i did not realize if i uttered the word entrepreneur a single time when i was at cornell be shocked like can't go back in time and figure that out but i don't believe that i was running telling people like i'm going to be an on snore. I'm going to start a business. I started of business sort of in the hospitality or coffee space. But y- i have always been pretty focused on like what am i gonna do for a living. What is my calling going to be and you know like like yours said situation. My situation anybody's listening to this situation. Like our upbringing in those formative formula of years of like elementary middle high school wall. If we get a chance to go to college those are really really important. And i always tell the young people in sacks For a long time. I thought of all of those years for me. Where like you. I wasn't raised with a silver spoon. I wasn't raised with money. I wasn't raised with a a ton of a ton of opportunity. And i for a long time out of immaturity and drag those things along a little bit as baggage and now i encourage people to realize that all those things like whether you had how you add it how i had it better worse. Whatever it happens to be everybody has issues with their childhood and upbringing and many times we all make it out to be worse than it actually was but i think many ways we bring that around his baggage and i think at once we start to realize that those challenges and overcoming those challenges and the resilience and Muscle memory and positive comes from those things when we start to realize that actually our superpower and our baggage when it goes from being behind us being in front of us is what we do our best work and so by the time i got into cornell. I started to realize those thing joe. My parents didn't have an education. They took pretty much whatever jobs they could get once they were teenagers. Getting ready to have a kid and said you know what my dad back this way on to the third shift working in a warehouse ago and my mom started as a receptionist hustled and i remember for eighteen years growing up in their house. There were not a lot of days where they love to work. You know they. They weren't doing things they were passionate about. My parents are really smart but life has a funny way of being thrown at you. Were starting your life a little too early as they did in starting a family and so i just remember a lot of negativity around work with them. By the time. I had gotten to be a high schooler in certain to college in a place at cornell. Sugar realize them i give. I'm going to be like everybody else. We're gonna spend more time in this country. We spend more time working than anything else. I don't know what what it is that i'm going to do looks like but i know it's going to be like what my parents and i don't mean to work. You know because there might be some people who love. Were warehouse are loving restricted. Talk to people they can. Every day is a little bit different but my parents didn't like about. I wanted to do something that was going to make my heart race. I wanted to do something i never felt. I was actually working. I was twenty two freaking out freaking out about what i was going. Do i think one day. I wanted to be james bond. The next thing. I want to be a lawyer the next day. I wanted to be a baseball player. You know and i was. Like what am i gonna do with. Yeah with with my life. I had a couple of coaches and teachers who were just lifelong mentors of mine. Oh when i wanted to go the wrong way. They made me go. The right way that i remember calling them and being like i'm freaking out bring out about what i'm doing and i remember them calmly confidently with great pride and passion telling me how proud they were of me and i felt like i had no. I hadn't accomplished anything of that. That's my life. And i remember hanging up being like i want. They were later in their careers. I want that feeling professionally throughout and certainly when my career over meeting. I know that i made a real impact on people's lives people's lives. Were better because i existed. And whatever i was going to do professionally had a huge hand net but i had gotten a crash course in business go into adds awesome internships around a lot of people who was families had great businesses and yada yada and i love business as an athlete as a competitor. I feel like the best is brought out of me when a half the bring my game every single day when i'm on my toes and my competition is around the best comes out of what am i. Is there a way for me to put those two things together i. I'm happiest when. I'm doing things for other people. I met my best friend. I have to be competitive and innovative and challenge and look day. Tony like it's twenty twenty one. I can't believe i'm saying that. I'm so writing twenty twenty. Which is probably freudian. But the i think the reality station is is that today. We call that being a social entrepreneur or my seven year. Old son in video is dancing in the background. I'm also a fulltime first grade teacher right now. Let me just jump in. You can watch luke bombing our session here in the background. So check this out on youtube if you're listening to this as if there's not enough entertainment world these days but i'm so it was today. We talked about being social entrepreneurs because it's a relatively normal thing. I'd never heard the term social entrepreneur. I'm not even trying. Uttered the word as i mentioned before entrepreneur when i was in college but this is exactly what i wanted to do. I just didn't know it had to come to the form of business. Come in the form of quintessential people business that it would come through the form of experiential learning. But that's what life and that's what careers and that's especially what entrepreneurial careers ours their journeys you know and you of nine learn more about your failures in your successes while sort of stop there to joe will go into some some more of the staff but i did not have the idea for. My story is like no business plan initially like every mistake you good boss we made. It almost seemed like i was looking to make mistakes. I made so many of them. First of all. I empathize with you. Right. 'cause similarly only recently i'm thirty seven now and only recently have i started to kind of put the pieces together and to tell about my backstory from the email but i was an auto mechanic before going to college decided that that wasn't the right thing for me about two two and a half years and i had a little bit of success there but decided all right i need to go and get my undergrad degree. Go back to undergrad. Start as an engineering major end up in business school kind of trying to figure out and find my path as you were saying very similarly to yours and i'm nowhere near where you are but But i i empathize with that story. And i hope that anyone who's listening to this if they're not where they think they need to be know that you are on the path to something as you said. It's a journey right. That isn't fully written yet if it is. That's not a great thing. You want it to be a path of growth and of of you know sort of this origin story of the superhero. That you're going to be. I love that you point out that sometimes a lot of what you think our weaknesses end up being your superpowers that you can then transform into if you combine them in the right way transform them into something magical now just question about that from a practical standpoint. Because where i am now. I've been very fortunate like you. That i've had some great mentors in that i've i mean each and every one this is episode one of seven. This podcast each. And every one of these episodes i realized at about ninety ish that they were micro mentoring sessions. I was getting to sit down and just super fortunate to sit down with entrepreneurs like yourself and just pick their brain and get you know. Soak up that information but from a practical perspective. How do you go from. I have these weaknesses. Whatever they are. How do i put them together to turn them into a superpower and then yes it's important to follow your passion for sure because that pumps you up like you said to bring your game day to day. But how do you turn that into a solid business plan right. How do you practically say. I'm really passionate about this. Whatever it is filmmaking baking whatever it is coffee in your in your case right but but people really because it's not really it's more of a people business than it is a coffee business. How you in your in your own words. Turn that into a practical application into a business so i think i want the. I'll that question tony issues. I think that as a release starting a business. I don't i don't know take your mistakes and turned into starting a business unless you've already been an entrepreneur. Businesses failed or a couple of businesses have failed which was fascinating story. The guys who started fi below which is a phenomenal business thousand stores. They're just crushing. It will continue to show for a long time. It's an ingenious model. But they speak very open. Like i know that you've got very well. And they speak very openly how they created a physical zany brainy way back in the nineties. I think that was an amazing business. But they made such critical mistakes that they destroyed the business right two or three years off and then they started five below based on all those failures. But i think if you're a first time entrepreneur. I think i think it has to be sort of the opposite. I think that you had to start a business that the existence of this business just makes your heart rates if you can't sleep without the existence of this business and without the idea of the work that you're going to put in and the impact of this is going to make your life your family's life and other people's lives as well. I think if the start from a position of bugs strength. Yeah what are you. good at. What really motivates you. I always. I'm sitting in my office in center city philadelphia saxons. We ever michigan values on the wall. This is a very sack spy's experience here. Normally the music is loud. People are bustling around to come into my office and it was just like a cool positive. Happy vital people. That's what our businesses. This is what i'm good at. This is what motivates me this is. What makes me excited and happy. Go one floor of buzz. There's a great technology company and that most of their computer scientists and engineers are up there and they do a lot of their programming. Moved me the exact same person. Pretty good down on the third floor. Move me up to the fourth floor. I'd be the worst. I'm just not that interested in technology. Engineering. it's just not my thing. So i think you have to start a business position of strength the things that naturally make you happy and the things that make your mom or dad happier next door neighbor awhile. This will sound amazing at a cocktail party. I did this or that if you're not actually interested in it. Don't do it if you're not willing to run to a brick wall and have sleepless nights. Don't do it because you're going to have those things. I've never heard an entrepreneurial story ever like mark zuckerberg we've all seen the social network like. Wow what an amazing thing because the trials and tribulations he went through friends family members in day is testifying in front of congress. Business is hard. Entrepreneurship is the hardest. Form of business. And so i think you have to start from a position of strength and passion then once you start then it's about mistaken and it's about pivoting off of those mistakes and so like i would say i've made so many mistakes. Actually i would say one of the things. I point to most often because it's the most relevant to what we're doing now is that because i knew nothing about anything. I originally started to franchise axes out of out of the gate. So many of our more than half of our existence. Actions was a franchise company which is funny because people who knows actions today never associate franchising with us whatsoever and so yeah but the idea franchising essentially that you as a. Yeah the founder of saxby. I've created mission core values operating standards of vendor network on brand essentially a model of success then license to other entrepreneurial people want to have to recreate the wheel they want to be entrepreneurial running actual business they don't want to go to all the trials and tribulations of figuring all those things out right and your me. Being an entrepreneur entrepreneur normandy. I like people being entrepreneurial sense to me. The issue was. I didn't know how to actually build a coffee business. And we didn't know how to run operational unit successfully and we already started franchise so great when you've already worked things out. We had a bad franchise or but if you think about our our ex ranger learning platform so these are on cafes a right in the middle of legendary university drexel. Temporal millersville buoy. Say penn state. You have these saxony's cafes that are all uniquely designed. They're designed by students they're loud they're on the actively hadramut point pouty is on point. They are exclusively run by undergraduate students. Those students are getting paid. They're getting full academic crowd that they have full autonomy of their profit moss. David so we're teaching business. I ll allowing people to run up. This is the same thing it's franchising for college students. I had not been such a bad franchise. Were if we if we had not been so unprepared as a franchisor. I don't believe that. The idea for experiential learning would've ever come about if we would we would have even if we just had that failure folded the business up or just like you know what. Don't look in that closet with all the skeletons from franchising. If we didn't have the humility actually be like you know what. Let's forensically evaluate. What would we go out. We get a second lease on life. Like how would we do this a little bit differently. And unfortunately we had the humility and now the gumption to be able to forensically evaluate them stakes and pivot into what has become are awesome awesome awesome story. I love that. How you you're to share that that failure that you'd then pivot into an amazing concept that that's just empowering so many students. A lot of my own students have worked for your cafe in fox. I adjunct at fox at temple. So that actually kind of brings me to the next question. I love temple. I went to temple as an undergrad. Got by law degree at rutgers came back and got my lms temple now. I teach temple huge fan of temple. So you're nell guy. Why temple why. Why did you come back to philly really started saxony's in atlanta. I did consulting job out of school. I moved to atlanta. I just wanted to be in a new city. I'm from chicago. But i just want to be a new city. I intern in new york and charlotte. I'll la in school. Like all those places. I was going to be in a new place and although the company that i worked for a college was ironically based in chicago i wanted to go anywhere but chicago now because they don't show i love chicago. I wanted experience. I wanted to go somewhere different. So i go. Atlanta do that for a few years creates actually in atlanta my very first investor. When's actually was fully franchises. Based thought alpha and the caveat to the investment was to move the business bellies. so i've moved the philly. It a pretty amazing. I moved here like right at the end of two thousand seven so phillies win the world series. Not long after. And if i think if you look at philadelphia the the late sixties through the really least two thousand was a tough time in philadelphia you know poverty rate was high. Unfortunately ill too high. Violence is too high risk tremendous suburban flight. A lot of business getting out of the city. It was probably thirty of the worst years ever thought his history. I think i've started to change. And then by the time. Two thousand seventeen thousand eight started to roll around. A lot of things started to collapse. I think maybe the biggest being we reversed the biggest brain drain in america. You know like we have more students come to our city to go to college for ten years and any other city in america in the world but then seventy to eighty percent of them would leave upon. Graduation is like new york. La boston's a great example. If the opposite they would retain that talent. And that's what makes cities great diversity education as philadelphia sort of defined the. Change that. And so i happen to be very lucky. Just moving here at that time anchored here to philly. I got a call a couple of years. Later from out creates a great entrepreneurship program. Funded by really suggest launch nor called the pillsbury instant of entrepreneurship. Begin one of the two. I ever entrepreneurs in residence and i'm still doing that so i spent a lot of time in the classroom. As a result of that drexel and tamblyn pens our economy has been a lot of time. There and i had a seat at the table. Yeah we just do the seat. I wasn't invited to that seat of time. But i got to watch entrepreneurship. Go from when i was in school. Which is nonexistent and hired to the place. Where i saw it and he doesn't doesn't thirty which is like now everybody's entrepreneurship but those that were most honest about it. I heard this a lot of cornell was. We're only one part of entrepreneurship. Well where teaching the learn how to write a business plan raise capital pivots partnerships. You can teach in a class. The heart of entrepreneurship or running a business is what happens with live fire. What happens when there's real ammunition out there. And joe and the pedagogy of higher ed that's experiential learning and so the idea. This exchange learning platform came to me. Because i was driving from my center city parking garage philadelphia to new york every once a day every single month now for almost nine years. I'm so a lot of windshield time to be able to focus on. What are we doing. Its axes like where is my heart and mind that. There's a connection to that for us to differentiate as the idea. A trend learning came on those drives. And my first conversations were certainly at cornell and then also i was jus the president fry drexel and look i love my alma mater and i spent a lot of time cornell jokingly call were called the cornell big mascot and we jokingly openly speak about it at cornell big red tape you know it is so much red tape and getting the opportunity great real estate and then carving students outward. They're not taking classes and getting full credit for a professional venture with a third party. Private company is something that everyone conversational loves but it was moving so slowly and as an entrepreneur. I don't have the luxury of moving slowly. So i'm meet john. John is like an entrepreneur with with the president's title at a major university. And i had to move quick enough to keep up with john. And that was. That was where that was was born. And i was originally having conversations at temple as well and temperatures going through some leadership changes when we're there but temple who always been big supporters of it and then friendly competition is a good thing. Once we opened at drexel was funny. How things just move a little bit quicker been phenomenal. Supporters president angler has been has been a great supporter. Yeah the dean's the business school. And now we're actually what's so great about pinball is that we originally started in hospitality program and then we got to move in and create a partnership with thoughts woah business and now we have students. That ios is coming out of other schools as one of our outgoing students. He right now actually comes out of the klein clients communications and the and the argument for that is that we're not teaching people to be coffee entrepreneurs what we're teaching people to be is. Civic minded leaders were teaching them how to develop talent out of build culture and commodity on a team to be able to be a community center business. How do you make sure that your community cares about your business by being civic minded and then how do you confident financially. They come into our office original month. Neighbors problem so haley rhetoric name who is just the the former student. Ceo of kline regardless of what she's gonna do and i would bet fifty fifty fifty percent of me that she's going to stay in communications. The enemy says she's going to go into some field completely different but one hundred percent of me is certain whatever. She does nonprofit for profit agnostic of industry or size of business every part of what she just experienced running her own million dollar business will be hugely beneficial for what for whatever she does. And so. that's the argument for for experiential learning. I love temple to temple. We have to phase there. We have hundreds of temple team members whether they're still college students or graduates getting paychecks from axes at any given time. So we are. We're big owl stan. You have big big fans while here in ray who you work with my team Extra barriers not just temple guy but he's also an adjunct professor and he's a former student body president so we We can't have more than we do. Yeah that's awesome speaking of ray in preparation for this episode. You did put me in touch with right a coordinate this he's your head of partnerships in external relations. And i happen to ask him what his favorite thing was about. Working for you. And for sack spy's and also. I asked him what question he thought i should ask you. First of all ray replied that quote personally. I love how. Nick puts young people in the driver's seat empowering young talent to step up and lead company priorities and initiatives and quote. You hit that nail right on the head you're executing and your internal team is completely bought in so kudos to that. Congratulations and and we really appreciate ray submitting that now. The question that he submitted was out of all of the mission statements. You could have selected. Why did you decide on make life better. What inspired that. Yeah i think so. Part half of that answer is gonna come from from one of the things i said earlier today. Which is i know that. I'm hard wired to be happiest when i'm doing things for other people you know. There's there's nothing that makes me happier than doing something for somebody else. And seeing their happiness of their gratitude for that that's a really intoxicating thing and motivating you know. It's not the kind of thing that goes away. Just like give a pizza to a man sitting on the street. I checked the box. I'm good bill next year. It's kind of where like you see him. Look at you being. That's a very kind and bottle thing to do. Thank you so much. That's the kind of thing that stays with you the rest of the day. You wake up the next day and you can't wait to figure out how to do more of that. It's a very tax accounting and addicting. Thing which i think is great so that was my natural towards it and then sort of the learned you know all of this. Is that when i had hired a good friends of philadelphia and as well and dorothy at had created consulting practice to help companies sort of the bell up or in. Some instances changed their comedy. Older and sexually every company has culture whether you realize it or not whether it's the or not every company has culture of it's not defined and you're not living probably bad culture. We had culture but it was like if you were around me and you heard me talk about my life experiences of my passions and my failures you could feel some about culture but culture has to be actually define written in the word be hired upon trained on yard has grown outside of just one person. This is going to be too great if mix the only person who can live the culture but if reagan live the culture just as well if not better than nick and then reagan back. Tony going back. Lubowa kabbalah la. Then you've got something really really special. And so when. I had higher my friend ed. He had given me just sort of a couple of words of advice which are one. The best cultures are are those that are defined and the definitions like a mission statement in the core. Values are things that are truly unique. You know i'm not. I'm not a big believer of company whose core values are integrity. And hashian and i. It's just not unique. Those are table stakes bill. The company like how is your company going to be not just good but it's going to be great to have unique in differentiating inherently inspiring mission statement and core values. and so. yeah he had said it needs to be something that's not just mundane and off the shelf. Secondly if you don't walk the walk nobody else will walk. The walk and somewhat selfishly. I'm gonna build mission statement and core values that. I truly believe in not things that i feel good on. Friday night goes great. Now i'm going to be like abbie nick with my values when i wrote about on a cold monday morning. What are the things that i believe in. What are the things. I'm going to do every single day. And i like making people's lives better until at this company. We can't hire people. Who are like. I'm gonna make a difference in people's lives once i'm rich. I'm rich but i'm gonna donate some money and then i'm going to do good for people. You're not a good tacky. I you you might be. A great person might be successful and other places. You're just not as action. I know i'm gonna do the end of the week. If i tally up. Like how many more people. I did good for them. Bad for a positive on the good side. That's a good week from not a good week for us every interaction. you should be making making people's lives better and it's a high standard. It's unique it's authentic and very inspirational and so that's how make life better was centered on and i remember when we came to that. It was like nick. Got the big standard. That's the big standard to be making people's lives better every single day and i was like well. That's it's a big standards thing that i can create a coffee business with dunkin donuts at starbucks wa wa. Were already in the in the game of betting that big on our mission core values through and that that's all came together. That's awesome really awesome. Now how do you keep yourself accountable to that. An saxony's accountable to that. So in other words what are to your point. I couldn't agree with you more that when you're doing things quick sidebar by the way hats off to you kudos to you for coming up with triple bottom line way before it was a thing right now. Everybody's talking about triple bottom line and her business the angle on. They realized that at that time is now. Yeah but you. You came up with so much so much earlier than everybody else and you remind me of other people like The founders of united by blue and other organizations like that that were sort of that be corporation model which is still around but not really that effective so that kind of leads me to this accountability issue right. Because i couldn't agree with you more. You see it in law firms. You see it in traditional sort of bureaucratic organizations. Yeah our triple bottom line. Initiative is to use less paper by twenty twenty five that is total bullshit. I'm just gonna say it's total bullshit. It's great that you're gonna lose use less paper. But is that really doing that. Much more for the community and your stakeholders and the people that support your organization etcetera so and not to mention that. It's very great for the organization. That's using less papers so they're wasting less money as well right. So how do you keep your eye on the target of staying accountable to that mission. Yeah i think one of the things that i've had to learn over time. Is that if you try to be everything to everybody. You're actually nothing to everybody you know. And so one of the things. I've had to learn. I was very proud of the fact for many years. Like a standing. Yes like if you just asked me for a donation or this or that. I pretty much just say yes everything look. I don't regret that you know like i. I really don't regret that because it showed me how. How make life better could actually. Were you know like being able to say yes. People to be on a podcast. Donate a gift basket to this. You know all these different kinds of things. And i saw how how motivated me you know but then over time i started to realize i say yes everything where. We're not making the kind of impact that we need is rice. Axes has evolved a behind closed walls. We refer to ourselves. Education and opportunity are people on the outside. We'd be like actually coughing company or the hospitality company york though. Put other monikers on it. All of which is true but and our heart and soul. We're actually an education opportunity. So we're very focused. I believe that in this country that you do not get opportunities unless you have an education you know so if we look at philadelphia thought yes is the poorest of all big cities. it's also movies educated of all the big cities. Ironically because as you pointed out earlier we have an abundance of and so sadly unacceptably as well we have an abundance abundance where the largest college challenge world but in this country if you do not get education you do knock it opportunities and god forbid you're a person of color. God forbid you're not a white male like me you have even less opportunities and even the last things over common so we believe in the idea of edge. H opportunity over the last several years has that started to come into focus for us. We started to realize that we needed. Say yes in that space and had to say no. And then no it was like let me make introductions to you for people who support leukemia lymphoma where support animal welfare because those are very important closets but our business is set up to make a difference in education opportunities of we can use our money and our efforts are people in those areas. Those are big areas. And you know we've got a good and growing platform to be able to make an impact. And so that's that's where things started to really really click for us so it's no surprise it when people meet giblets. Axes is no surprise. That many of our people are former teachers or have education degrees or have nursing degrees or did nonprofit work in sort of like big brothers big sisters or boys and girls club because they they believe in education opportunity and the only way you used to be the only way you could provide people education opportunity was going to be a teacher or go your coach or going the nonprofit space. Well this at were now. At the sort of turning point of capitalism where the line between four providence non-profit nonprofits being blurred nonprofits to act more like four profits and probably to act more like nonprofits lyons bloomberg blurred. And so. that's that's where we are right. Now is worse. Sort of like that intersection of were starbucks. Temple university means big brothers. Big sisters were sort of that company sort of in the nexus of those areas. We have heart of a nonprofit. We have the ingenuity and the innovation of a for profit and And i think that's. I don't think we're unique to that right now. I don't think we're unique that moving vote. I think that's all business because that's where talent wants to go as we're dollars all right now. That's that's where people want to spend their money our head of marketing as a great saying it's like people will buy from brands daylight but they buy into brands that they believe that you know you zealots to your brand you want people who are not just going by your coffee with intel everyone around there you need to act as well you'll buy into you because of what you stand for and that's why i think our best head of us because we're starting to really put this guy that we're trying to understand who we are the problems that were helping solve and we're making good mission core values driven decisions to ensure that we're moving in the right direction. Awesome really awesome stuff. And i think that's really actionable. Thanks for clarifying that. And i couldn't agree with you more. I'm going to be honest. We have not met before this podcast. We met over email briefly. Obviously before we set up the podcast But i had heard of you. As an undergrad. At temple kazakhs speech was already around. I graduated in two thousand ten And you have inspired myself and my colleagues to create a very similar style business. We were talking about it before we started recording this episode and So i may steal some of your stuff. Sorry to drive. Drive the internal team but i. I couldn't agree with you more about triple bottom line organizations being the wave of the future i teach intellectual property and entertainment law at fox. And while it's not related. I do constantly preach to the students. Look into a triple bottom line. Organizations are familiarize yourself with it. Get with the program because this is where things are going. That is the definite direction that the majority of businesses need to be going in and it provides a lot of opportunity to your point for cause marketing initiatives with nonprofits for csr programs with nonprofits Etc and it just it makes everything better in. You're right it makes coming to work that much more joyful. Not only for yourself but for the entirety of your team and the really cool thing is not only do you develop as customers but you developed zealots as stakeholders right. Your team. That works for you. Both in the c. suite or on you know at the counter at your coffee shops all of them become zealots for organization. I know this. Because i've had students at fox as i said that worked at your coffee shop and alter so okay now shifting to the development of the system and you talked about how you kinda started delving into franchising. Didn't work out. And then you pivoted that idea and concept into the e. l. p. program. What were the pitfalls and issues that you ran into in developing a system that focused on college students essentially running the majority of your business what were those pitfalls and how did you overcome them specifically but also touch on the fact. If you don't mind that you know there's this. Stigma about millennials and gen z years being lazy or not being good workers. Or you can't motivate them an. Obviously you're running a business that's ninety percent or so dependent. I'm just throwing an arbitrary number on ninety percent of your team probably is in that age group right more or less. So how did you develop a system that pushes those people to to succeed. Yeah yeah lobster questions sort of in there so i would say that if we did this strange learning platform like reverse history of oxygen and when we started franchising if instead we did experiential learning we would have made so many mistakes we actually made but i think the benefit of having had all that franchising experience the business plan. You know the as. I like to call it sort of like the road map for how you're going to run your business with so much more accurate and that's not to say that we didn't make mistakes. We certainly did. There were a lot of lessons. Learned i would say that there are sort of two big key. Things like really popped out as it relates experiential learning in before they go into those two. I will say that there were so few people who believed that the very first experiential learning sacks because we we call oji actual thirty four language. Is we have a second one. I'm campus now as well but also sort of the. Oh gee of the entire platform at this point right. There were very few people who believed that. Og drexel saxony's was going to be successful for lotteries one is everyone's heard of student run things before like their bookstore in high school student ron and like never had pencils or pens and it felt like a charity because it was just a kid trying to do things. There's already this stigma on that. There was also the stigma of nick. Timeless millennials twenty fifteen. They're lazy don't want their. They wanna be spoon fed. Everything they don't wanna show up they don't want to work hard and we'll actually serve gas they don't wanna they don't want this that everybody was so negative about whether whether people could do that but we weren't anymore it's act. We had our mission core values. We had a lot of trials and tribulations and we started see when we made good decisions on who we opened the gates of our castle to and we. We opened the gates in the castle. Not because you're smart or your hands on where you're educated or this or that we opened the gates because you see our bat signal up in the sky and you like that bad signal which happens to be our mission. Core values makes my heart race. I want i want to be inside that castle so we let you in our castle. You believe in making better. You believe that you serve yourself by serving others. You believe that. We embrace being outgoing joins and disciplined the things that we believe differentiate us and make our on an impactful when people opt into those things we feel like we can build a successful team as a result of that and so everyone thought we were going to fail. I on one hand. How many people. And i wouldn't even say many people thought we would succeed. Everyone pretty much thought we were going to fail. And so there was a lot of motivation for that but when we opened up equal thirteenth. Two thousand fifteen myself and john fry and donald caralis the founding dean of close bunch nor ship at drexel. We did tell us presser shots and the place is filled out with students with faculty community members. John i went outside and he pointed behind him and then he goes next. This is the future of education. Everyone needs to learn the skills. You guys are teaching emotional intelligence critical thinking culture ledger jealousy. We're a great university drexel. We can't teach any of those things in the classroom with those are the things that all of our students are demanding. Learn what their parents expect them to learn what the employers are demanding. Young people coming into the workforce app so we need these things in education. And i would say the lessons that we learned our one very specific you know. So much of this is predicated on the what we call the students. Ceo so the person who's responsible for the businesses a students cio over six months. That's student take zero classes. It's a fall semester of credit and manage a team of on average about fifty of his or her peers. Every single month. They come or our office. They present their profit loss statement. They have huge by disease. You're usually million dollar business units and so they're donating a lot of money. They're hosting a lot of events. They're dealing with any business. You take any business any history. That doesn't million dollars in revenue which someone recently told me less than five percent of all companies in the us. You more than a million dollars so these young people are running a top five percent business well. Any accounting firm a non-profit that employs fifty. People does that level of revenue. That's what our students ios responsible for the big lesson that we've learned. Is it as fun as it is to say when we post a new students a job. Two hundred forty people applied for that job. That's amazing i'm makes us feel good. The cows is so demanding. It's really hard. The change leadership like to change the bus driver when the buses going seventy miles an hour down the highway and so the biggest lesson that we learned was the importance of internal promotion. An internal development. So we turn that into a great teaching moment as day. One student ceo. I'm one of their sort of keynote speakers. And i would give them the somewhat dramatic example but i remember when i was young person while i was working at mcdonalds when i was bartending. When i was in college it felt good to be the only who was good at a certain day. Man look good i am. I am so irreplaceable. Because i'm the only one who could do this. I'm the only person who can open the place or closed at her bowel raw. If you find yourself in that position as a student ceo. I want you to hear me in your ear saying you're a bad leader whereas on the other side if you can go away for fall break and go visit your family and your operating business you get. No phone calls and everything was done to training into high standards. You're a greater powered people in new train people so we turn that into a great leading a yellow great lesson that our students a ios ninety nine point nine percent of the time the students ceo who they pass the baton their successor now though instead of having to like put the bad signal outside of the business a who wants to come in the next ceo. The promotion comes internally and the person's usually been identified in already trained by the existing students on. It's just a great leadership. Lessen the other side of it though is that you're on most college campuses real estate and dining is handled by a third party company. Air marks adecco compass group and out of ignorance. I decided to just sort of avoid those companies early on and john fry was very good lead blocker for me. He carved me out of their contract which created some animosity with his old fighter. I didn't realize how powerful and important does bar. And i think the big lesson learned for us is by the time we got no about four or five of these articles on different campuses. Drexel and millersville are polar opposite schools urban rural private public collapse non tool school of business. No school of business but students who are smart and hardworking and want to get the tool about to be successful in life exist on both of those campuses once we have success across a wide range of herat. I realize that i'm not doing ourselves or the future talent of this business much of service by grown this slowly. This is the kind of game changing platform that needs to be taken to a much larger scale. And so over the over. The kovin break if you will we have created partnerships with two of the three largest dining service companies. And so what we are planning for and expect to see pretty explosive. Growth marks ranked learning platforms. Starting this coming fall and hopefully indefinitely moving forward because a lesson learned. I had there is that it was taking us a long time to grow this platform. Because of how embedded into campuses these these dining service providers instead of instead of just prideful fully working against them and around them. I said if we could sit down and say here's what we believe in. Here's what you believe in where's commonality. And how can we divide and conquer to partner together successfully. We were fortunate naval to do that. And i think that we're gonna impact a lot of people's lives together as a result of that awesome awesome really really cool stuff so one quick question is how do you make sure that the people that you're putting in those students. Ceo positions are aligned with that. Make life better every single day and that they're aligned with what all of your core values are what's what's what's your true litmus test for that there's two things i'll point you on that tony. The first is again. I talked a lot about mr personality. I know you can sort of see this up. That's behind me. But there's one missing which is make life better and are six core. values are explicit. They're simple and most importantly their practiced unapologetically every day in this company. So one of the things. I point you is what you actually can't see behind. My head is care personally communicate openly. I think that's a true unique thing. Because i think most companies and mess moses i read about as companies getting bigger complain about communication. There are lots of in the dark. what's going on. It rarely have communication with their boss. I don't know they don't know where they stand on things. So why don't we flip that on its head by. Why don't you complete opposite position so we over communicate here. We are incredibly transparent. There's nothing off the table. I you all these breakfast meetings with students. Ios ceo's t members baristas. I try to be incredibly prevalent in the cafes and people know my reputation the company. You can ask nick or talk to him about anything. There is nothing if there's a trade secrets. And i have to protect the greater good of the business. I'll draw that live. I can think of like one. Or two instances when that has happened so and we do that all the way down to performance because the second part of what we believe. Is that good good. Companies have mission core values. Great companies put them into play every single day. And we were transitioned from good to great. When i realized that we're so good at pointing out all the great things people do among amongst our culture like hey joanie when you pulled that shift for your team member whose mom got sick model cover her shifts for two straight weeks. I was unbelievable. You made her life better. Congratulations we have so many different ways. We promote that across the company. What we weren't doing was we weren't talking about. We are ignoring what was happening. When people weren't following our culture one of the phrases. That i like is that culture is the is the behavior that you were ward and correct. Were really good at rewarding. The positive culture not very good at the other side because that's part of the challenge for us with a young generation is one of the truth. Ax is that we are living in a softer and softer world. You like it's it's just. Were not giving feedback as parents were not returned to shelter kids from any sort of back whatsoever and in many instances when a young person shows up as an h. papa tumbles campus shockingly. We're the first employer for many of these kids. Which i hate to sound like that old guy but i'm like i don't know anyone when i was eighteen who hadn't had a job hardy at. Aj but very different today you know and so and then we take it to a whole 'nother level words like look. This is be the place where we're gonna be like tony. You anything you do is amazing. You walk on water. We're just not like that here. Because i don't believe that's on the real world is once you actually graduate and you go in and you start working for company so would better off the now not just as receivers of it. But they're also delivering that feedback. Our students ios oftentimes in the same sorority with people that they have the right up there in the same math class with someone that they're competing with for a promotion and the business competition is real but treating people respectfully care personally and we believe that you do that by communicating openly and so we hire base values and we exit people out of our company based is we we have the most civil exits and On our business. I would say in the last several years because you know in tony shows up late to the third time in an opening shift we say. Hey johnny yesterday you were supposed to open at six. Am with luca with nick. You didn't show up. You know how hard it is to open a. We were not prepared for the first guest who showed up. How did that make their life better. And like you're doing now. You just shake your head. You're like i didn't make the life better. I let them down. And i know i'm not doing what the company expects it when people know what they expect. What's expected them. They voluntarily bought into it. Pisses become pretty easy. That is just about doing that. Consistently i tried to set the tone as the ceo of the company. Because if i can walk the walk. I'm not any more talented. Anybody else in my business. I can do it everybody else but he can do it as well. And so that's our litmus test you know is really those things. Chairperson person communicate openly and culture. What you reward and correct incredible. I love that so just wrap up. I see sack spy's three point. Oh behind you amongst all those core values so what is three point. O mean it means a lot First and foremost to that three point. Oh always drawn cut out and taped on the wall back there. My son move because since march fifteenth this has been his classroom. Mrs been his playground. This has been every. I've been living nearly in this office. And he's been with me and my wife is not an orange. she's been posted up in here and so yes actually three point. Zero is is. The is the business that we re created in kobe. Yeah saxons three. Point does slogan has been survived thrive. You know by april i. I realized that in our business in particular we were in very long haul. This is going to be very devastating because not just being in the coffee business but where our cafes were our college campuses in dense urban environments like those two areas have just been crushed business perspective. And there's nothing i can do. I can't convince john to bring all the students back campus. I can't convince the people in liberty place high rise to bring their worker. I can't i can focus on what. I can control what i can. Control is the cash flow of my business. The talent in my business and so we went into deep survival mode. But i didn't wanna cuts so deep and make so many changes that we wouldn't be ready to thrive because we have our experiential on our culture and experiential learning platform or the holy grail of business. Everyone wants to create a business shrub. Give it's differentiating. it's highly scalable. We have to be foolish of me. It'd be foolish of me to cut so deeply that we couldn't drive on the other side of three point is the company that has surviving covid going to thrive very very quickly. I think we're already starting to move into rival motor even if our our cafes aren't yet ready to show us my son's i've i've had just died in class. Look lucas calling calling time watts. Podcast era i love it. I actually do really appreciate it. That was amazing. I really think that's an incredible way to end this episode and love. What you guys are doing. We hope to emulate that haven't announced yet. what what we're doing. But hopefully you and i can can have a little brainstorming. I can pick your brain because we're trying to do something similar Nick thank you so much for your time really really appreciate it. I hope the listeners got a lot of great and really practical advice from an amazing innovator in our industry and in our community thanks so much. Tony it was my my pleasure. I look forward to hearing more about your your new venture.

Nick philadelphia nick saxby Nick bayer saks coffee Bayer nick elementary middle high school cornell chicago joe philadelphia business journal atlanta fox La boston Saxby drexel university fry drexel ray
THE 3 STEP TO BUILDING YOUR MARKET AND SELLING MORE

The B2B Revenue Leadership Show

26:31 min | 4 months ago

THE 3 STEP TO BUILDING YOUR MARKET AND SELLING MORE

"Everybody. Welcome to the PD revenue leadership podcast. Hey, what we do in this podcast is talk about what? B.. Two B. Sales and marketing leaders, operators and experts doing today to really break through and grow their businesses at exponential levels. Let's get it in the interview at the end. Give you an update on my courses and you can check out my website at B. Two, B. Revenue Dot Com and it's Brian G Burns aw on linked in I. Brian. Thanks for having me on. I. Really appreciate it Yeah. So I'm the CEO and founder of sales nexus and we're a sales and marketing automation platform for medium size. B. Two B. Sales teams. how did you get interested in sales? Well as a salesperson in fact, I grew up with with my Stepdad work from the home as a independent sales were at a like a manufacturer's rep sounds New York. He had this really awesome life. He is big hunter and Fisher. So basically every Friday he would take off to some far flung place to go hunting or fishing and come back on Monday. And and work from Tuesday to Thursday. Made a good living you know. So I thought. Wow, that looks pretty cool. Yeah. Wow. My Dad was a manufacturer's Rep as well. Really. Yeah so At the end of his career, he was a rap during it. For other people. But then when on his own and it's kind of. I still have friends that do it manufacturer's Rep. so it's kind of a unique business model, but one that seems to work for a lot of people. Yeah. Gives you a lot of flexibility that's what I saw. And what did you sell when you were in Drexel's? well, started off selling car wash controller. So like you know stick your car to the full service car wash in, it moves through the tunnel and all the right machine come on at the right time they'll that was the computer I sold wanted that out. And who would you sell it to gas stations or car wash? Those full service car washes and there's there's a lot of dealers in that market that sell to those car washes in their local areas. So those are my main customers. Did you like it. Yeah, it was great I got the same benefit that my Stepdad got I work from home I had a lot of flexibility I would get up early in the morning. The guy worked for taught me really well, he taught me how to smile and dial and how to how to get focused on it. Be Good at it and be affected. So I could get up in the morning have my coffee start making my calls and heck by noon I was done the only thing I had to do in the afternoon was processing any orders I had taken and you know paperwork and stuff like that and did really well and and. They'll cool and what was the impetus to start your own gig young company. Well, long story short. I did well with that and then ended up getting hooked up with Company in the energy business here in Houston, it was a start up that had this really unique software that we were selling to gas exploration companies. So now I go from seven to these you know car wash dealers are pretty small mom and pop businesses to selling million dollar software packages two. Billion dollar corporations right a whole different deal So. lot of learning there. But ended up doing pretty well with it and we grew I hired sales people And we ended up needing a tool to. Keep track of things. Right. Make sure we're staying in touch with the right people at all these oil companies you know very complex sale cycle with lots of influencers and all that. and so we were using act way back when you know that was written at any of these kinds of things back then. And It was great but then we merged with a competitor and I inherited this far-flung sales. Team, where some of them were out of Denver where our corporate headquarters in Houston mom worked for Hump from home and other places and keeping them all in sync up in the same act database was a real nightmare. This was right. Win salesforce had just come on the market they were brand new. And so we thought wow, that sounds perfect for us. It'll be the internet we won't have to sink anymore. Everything will be real time. Awesome. It was good in those ways but it wasn't as mature as it is now and we missed a lot of the functionality that act hat. And so. So we, that's what we just decided to do is start the first. Online version of act. That's what sales next was initially. I remember trying to use multi user act. it was. Really. A great tool for an individual sales rep, but right out great for a team. and. As, an individual, but then it's on your PC. So if anything goes wrong, you have to back it up. You have if it gets corrupt, you're hosed. Exam the old days of software. Right at those before, they even knew what the cloud was. Yeah and so how do you sell it today? Is it do you have a salesforce or is it more of a marketing automation type sale advertise and then Demo and close? Yeah I. Mean It's a lot of that We do a little bit of both really. So you know Pete, a lot of people come to our website. They see our ads and and things like that at the come to our website and sign up for free trial and we they. Play around with it, and we do demos and stuff like that But then also we're out there you know banging on doors and pursuing sort of strategic accounts and markets as well though, and what do you see sales people doing wrong today. I mean. You know it's funny thing is it hasn't really changed. The same things that we were doing wrong back when I was online sales person. You're not doing enough prospecting. You're not filling the funnel. And you're not following, up enough. That's the two main things today where we see the most low hanging fruit. Is You know in any sales organization right. You go your especially in outbound sales organization where you're cold calling or knocking on doors or going doing a lot of networking or trade shows. You know you're going through a lot of leads. You're talking to a lot of people and you only close maybe twenty, twenty, five, thirty percent of so that means eighty or seventy percent of all the people you engage with don't become customers and most sales teams even today basically throw them away you know. They're not doing anything to stay in touch with those people because they're so focused on who am I going to close this month? Right. Yeah, and that's that. So many of the things that we sell our event based. meaning that you cultivate a need and a desire and you have to be there at that right time that its surface yeah. A lot of education, a lot of persuasion, a lot of transferring ownership. And that those long time gaps, it's easy to forget them. It's easy to deprioritize them. Right, and some of it we should but enough the more ambitious ones of us should be able to do both. Yeah. Well, it's a great point you're bringing up especially in a technology sale of some sort where there is a lot of that -education that goes on. Boy. You invest so much in creating that awareness and need in the customer's mind, and if they choose not to act right now for all kinds of reasons, could be budget could be things that you're. Not In control of But you've made that huge investment. So if all you do is just kind of stay in contact with them so that when the time's right for them. They call you and that's magic. Now today with with technology like ours and others You can automate that right where they're just get an email from you. Once a month that's Kind of given them the opportunity to tell you the time is right. If if I ignore five emails from you and also on the sixth one I, download the PDF or watch your video or something. That's me saying times right you should call me. and. One of the best pieces of sales advice I ever got was from a manager who said. You know you got the the elephant hunters over there that wasn't really me, and then you got the guy chases everything and nobody has time for that I try and focus on the ones that can and will close and as many as those as you can. Sure on. That stuck with me because the elephant hunting too risky. And working eighty hours a week doesn't really scale. Right, especially, you like to hunt right. I. Know you you WanNa you WanNa let your sales people like you say just focus on the ones who have a strong need now enter closeable and let technology take care of you know. Keeping them in front of a much larger audience than they ever could on the phone or manual. And that's it. I think today with technology and you know we have just the opposite problem that we had fifteen years ago where we had no data. Today, we have too much data. Right and even when I got started in sales, we had zero data. You could buy phone books wasn't the Internet. It it was hard finding the main number never mind somebody's number, right? Sure. No. Where did you see the sales tack space going? Are you excited by you must be? Sure. Yeah, I. Mean. There's so much that's happening and of course, there's a lot of snake oil You know it's easy to it's easy to call something ai and people. Are. Super Cool Yeah. I mean. For me, it's always been about I wanNA. Help sales people. Be Better sales people be better at actually building relationships with real people and do a better job of helping those people get what they need right and and that's mostly a client's world and really understand what their challenges are and and kind of serve as their guide and help them get where they're going and that's it. That's what we should be as a guide and I keep using this analogy if you showed up at a nice resort and the Bellman said, well, where would you like to go or how would you like to get to your room? What would you say you isn't that your job? Your. And we kind of over COMP-. Make it too complex and we keep asking them what they want to do next. We should be leading them on what they should want to do next and why they WANNA do it right and I think technology can help us there because we're managing. Tens of accounts, all different stages and trying to. Re set our context every time as hard. Edge. Yeah you that's a great point you really. the the best sales organizations that I've seen are the ones that. They don't talk so much about their sales process. They talk a lot about their buyers process. And what's that journey looked like and and if you can that, you know you know prospect a is at the very early sort of awareness and education stages than that's the conversation you need to have likely. Yeah. But if you know the prospect is already been through all that and he's talked to ten vendors already and he's really ready to make up his mind. Well, that's a whole different conversation. And and I think too many of us. listen to our companies. Present Demo proposed negotiate clothes and it's like well. Just make sure you're really there. Because once you give her is their their customers there and they have a buyer's journey but they probably don't know what it is that no I I did a video about how I was buying a house. I was just a fictitious video and you know if you ask somebody what you're buying process to buy a house the B., find a House A. House. Right but it forgets all the steps in between finance and getting inspections. Office getting on. All the testing and the comparisons about the school system and all the little details, and that's what a realtor should be doing for. Yeah. That's actually a great analogy. You know because we all know that experience. We all know I don't know about you but I've dealt with some realtors who? Every, it seems like every transaction they go through. It's their first one again. You know and they show they show up on Friday afternoon they go. Okay. We'll get all this stuff going on this weekend and we have to do a million things right now you know what should be happening is back a week ago we signed the the listing agreement they they should have handed me a roadmap said, here's the things we're going to. Need to do, and here's here's what you need to know about those things. What does you know what is an inspection and why does it matter and rise all that kind of stuff you know and I had bought a house from a kind of friend acquaintance and I was thinking saving all this money we'd he just gave me the realtor's fee. He goes here's the COMMS I'll give you the six points off. And let's do it. Now. That was great until I went to try and get a mortgage. Right because I didn't know how to get a mortgage. I'd ask my friends they go try this person and the mortgage broker just never gave me an answer. Now when call me back? And I'm like, do I stick with this person? Do I go to the next one and then you gotta find somebody to close somebody and then that person gives you a list of things you need to bring. Right and they won't tell you the amount until like an hour before you close. GonNa make sure the money's in the right place and he can't just bring a hand check. It has to be a certified check. Yeah. How how am I supposed to know this right So that's kind of the buyers process without anybody guiding you. Now you wrote A. Called e-p-o-c-h or is it a white paper? Well, we call it our guide we call it the four steps to market domination guide. and basically it's Kinda It's funny that we're having this conversation because it's essentially. A guide to business that wants to get some. CRM and sales automation marketing automation in place and isn't sure how to do it. You, know the unfortunately. There's as I, said, before a lot of snake oil in in the marketplace and there's a lot of technology that promises to solve all your problems There's also a lot of consultants around out there that will charge you a lot of money to help you figure all the stuff out right now and it's crazy amount the amount of money. I see people spending a moat. In fact, there's studies that I've seen recently that say that. On average businesses spend one point, five times the amount they spend on the software on consultants to help them figure out how to use you. which that's a surprise to most businesses I thought I could afford the software I didn't realize I was GONNA. Spend that and more on you know people to help me. Help Yeah I mean you gotta learn how to use it and I've seen even the simplest of. APPS and people say, well, how do you know anybody who does training on it and it's like Yeah Youtube Right. You ask me on Youtube. Right, but they want their handhelds. Understandable yeah. Why do we have personal trainers? Right? We all can come to twelve. Exactly. We need a little motivation and stuff. And then you have to connect everything. And I think people are overselling what technology can do because I think everybody likes to buy into the idea that it's automating sales At enabling sales it's kind of helping sales. That's right. Yeah. Yes. Yes. So we created the four steps to market domination because we you know we've been doing this for fifteen years now and what we realized that is that it's not rocket science like you said, you know there's youtube videos it would show you how to do all this. But the problem is most businesses go about it in the wrong order and by doing that, they make a mess for themselves to you know it's it's funny that we keep talking about houses and real estate 'cause that's the analogy we use. If you're building a house, you guys start with foundation right? Right. If you start picking out windows and pain citing for you've ever worked on the foundation you're going to end up with a mess right now. and that's what most businesses do they. When they're buying technology, they get all enamored of all the bells and whistles, which is really the windows you know and the citing without thinking about the foundation, and so that's what the four steps the market domination does. It helps the business re in very simple ways. We created some really need a simple easy to use worksheets to figure out how do I need organize my customer base so that I can pull up the right segment the right target list at a moment's notice without it being a two day project for my assistant in and they'll So that can send execute on marketing ideas. You know in a few minutes of so I can run the right report it's going to help me manage and sales team and manage my marketing That kind of thing. So we so you gotta figure that out first and you WANNA build the system around that when you start loading in your customers from your counting system or from your sales, guys iphone or whatever you want to load them in there so that they're organized in those ways that you just went through setting up. and. Then once you've done that, then you start worrying about all the siding and the windows and stuff, which would be the the no emails and automated campaigns to stay in touch with all your cold leads and past customers and things like that. That's really important in it's what we usually see. Is. A business that does this right and just gets to the point where all they do is send out two emails. Every month to all of their past leads know the cold leads they're not selling to right now. If. If that's all you do in four to five months, you're going to see if fifteen twenty percent increase in sales. Just. Because you're going to get an email in front of somebody who you talk to six months ago also the times right for them and they're gonNA call you and say, Hey, I'm ready. And what should be in those emails it shouldn't be a pitch it should be a piece of content solving a particular problem that people like them have. Yeah. That's a great question and that's the key ingredient and that's in four steps to market domination. By the way, there's Nilode worksheet to help you out to write emails like this, but it's really simple especially for anybody like you who's really studied selling or anybody that's ever read a book about consultive selling. You know they always talk about finding the customer's pain right? You know in what? What? What is it going wrong in their life that they need to fix right now If so you just got to figure out what are those three or four most common pains your customers have that you can help them with. And then you're going to write an email that says, Hey, do you have Insert your pain here. If. So I wrote a little blog post three tips for fixing this pain or reducing costs on this or whatever that is. And so you're like, you said, you're just giving them. Away to learn something about the problem they have, and possibly some tips to take care of it do some things to improve things on their own you're not trying to sell them anything. But what you're doing is you're positioning yourself as an expert somebody that knows somebody they can trust to help them and not always try to sell him something. Of An when they click that thing and they go to read your blog they are raising their hand and telling you I have this problem that you happen to have a solution for they'll know that's really valuable information and it gives you ammo to have a conversation with them exactly because they if they're interested in solving that problem that probably interested in talking about that problem exactly. Yeah. So you call them up and you don't say Hi Brian this Craig member we talked a year and a half ago and Blah Blah Blah Blah. Blah was like an update a proposal. No, you say Hey Brian. I noticed you're looking at that article on three ways to reduce costs for whatever. What what's going on you're having a problem. You know you just get right to what you know. They care about you know. That's great and where can people get this? They can just go to our website sales next DOT com. And It's all over the website. You can't miss it. You put in your email and you get a free copy of the Guide and you're in. Business. And what kind of? Off, topic but what are the three things that you look for a great salesperson? That's a great question. I think empathy is the number one thing now. That's a really hard thing to measure in an interview especially But we've learned some assessments and things that we use that help us with that listening. Is really important. And you know just the ability to. Answer questions clearly. Without it turning into a sales pitch to you want to position yourself as as really the the customer is the patient and you're the doctor. You know doctor doesn't try to explain to you everything he learned in school now he just wants to know what's hurting. HOW DID HAPPEN And a here's what I recommend. You do about it. Yeah and this is what happens if you don't do it. There you go. And where can people go to follow you? while. We're going to go to sales next DOT COM and you can connect to us on twitter or Youtube Channel. There's ton of videos about how to do all of this So that's all at sales next DOT com. Hey I hope you enjoyed that interview hey, I wanNA make sure you're checking out be to be revenue dot com that is where you can get a free copy of an epoch that I did as a real easy book it's not a fluff bucket shows and talks about how companies make buying decisions, and how you can influence that from both marketing and a sales standpoint, how to find all the people that are in the decision path and what they need to see no touch and feel before they make a product selection. If Your Team needs some coaching, help some training, some systems and processes that do work today because we know what doesn't work or you know it doesn't work I'll show you what does work and how to connect and get into pretty much any account. Includes deal coaching and content community, and I can customize it for your particular company. Just go to be to be revenue DOT COM look under training scheduled call with me we can talk it over. Or just sign up you can pay per month or all at once whichever makes most sense for your budget. Also I put out videos pretty much daily on a linked in and on Youtube on linked in its Brian G Burns and on Youtube it's Brian Burns sales just search for that. If you like to consume some video content and if you see me on linked in please put a comment share and a like. Some of the videos I really appreciate it. I've got a company page for each podcast this one, the B., two B. Revenue Leadership podcast where I put both content and humor videos out daily and tell a friend about the podcast. Really appreciate your listening check out the show notes for all the partners and connections. You can make their the coupon codes for the products evaluate them see if there right match for you and we'll see you next time.

Brian G Burns Youtube New York Drexel Fisher Houston CEO House A. House twitter Pete Company Denver founder Bellman