2 Episode results for "Dr Steven Goodman"
Democracy Now! 2020-03-13 Friday
"From New York. This is democracy now anybody that needs a desk. It's a test. They have to tell anybody that needs cast gets a test says the president of the United States. That's simply untrue. There have been just eleven thousand tests in the United States so far since the corona virus outbreak began. Compare this to nearly twenty thousand tests for Corona virus every day in South Korea alone the head of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Disease says the. Us is failing when it comes to testing for the virus. The idea of anybody getting it easily the way people in other country doing we're not set up for that. I think you should be yes. But we're not today. We look at how the trump administration has failed to account for what it'd be thousands of corona virus infections because of ongoing problems with access to testing. We'll speak with professor. Justin Leslie of the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health Senior author of a new study that suggests the median incubation period for the new corona virus is about five days and epidemiologist. Dr Steve Goodman at Stanford Medical School Associate Dean of the School. Both are holding classes online for the rest of the porter over concerns about the outbreak. And yes Dr. Goodman is my brother all that and more coming up. Welcome to democracy now democracy now dot. Org the Warren Peace Report. I'm Amy Goodman. The Corona virus pandemic is continuing to spread across the globe. According to the World Health Organization Corona virus has now infected over one hundred thirty five thousand people and killed nearly five thousand. Kenya and Ghana have confirmed their first corona virus cases. India's reported its first corona virus death. The death toll in Italy has surpassed one thousand while the country's medical system struggles to treat the sick. Meanwhile satellite photographs have been published online showing what appeared to be mass graves in Iran. Where Corona virus victims have been buried? The official death toll in Iran is around four hundred twenty nine but many fear. The actual number is far higher France Ireland Austria Belgium. Turkey and Norway have all begun taking steps to close schools to stop the spread of the virus here in the United States. The number of reported corona virus in factions jumped by nearly four hundred Thursday to about one thousand six hundred fifty but the actual number is believed to be higher congresses. In House. Doctor has privately told Capitol Hill staffers that he expects seventy to one hundred fifty million people in the United States will contract the virus. Six states have announced plans to close all public schools. Oregon Ohio Michigan Maryland Kentucky and New Mexico schools in Houston Texas near Seattle are also closing. Almost five million. Children are being impacted by the closings own major sporting events in the United States have been halted the NCWA has cancelled for the first time. Ever the men and Women's College Basketball tournaments known this March madness Utah Jazz player Rudy. Gobert has apologized after testing apologised after testing positive for corona virus. Just days after. He jokingly touched reporters microphones and phones while leaving a news conference Monday go bare wrote quote. At the time I had no idea I was even infected. I was careless and make no excuse. I hope my story serves as a warning and causes everyone to take this seriously unquote Disney has shuttered all of its theme parks around the world including Disneyworld and Florida. New York state has banned public gatherings of more than five hundred people including all Broadway shows on Thursday New York City mayor. Bill de Blasio declared a state of emergency as the number of confirmed cases in New York jumped from forty two to ninety five in a single day but the last twenty four hours have been very very sober literally yesterday morning. Feels like a long time ago We got a lot information. The course of the day yesterday a lot changed and then last night it does seem like the world turned upside down in the course of just a few hours on Wall Street. The Dow Jones Industrial Average plummeted ten percent Thursday in its biggest drop since one thousand nine hundred eighty seven airlines and cruise companies have been particularly hard. Hit major international cruise lines including Princess cruises and Viking suspended operations. President Trump's ban Europeans flying into the United States from twenty six European countries goes into effect midnight tonight. The stock market losses came despite the Federal Reserve injecting about one point five trillion dollars into the financial system in an effort to prop up. The market's former Labor secretary. Robert Reich tweeted total student. Loan debt one point seven trillion total cost of the Fed's short-term bank funding one point five trillion America has socialism for the rich harsh capitalism for everyone else Reverend William Barber of the poor people's campaign tweeted overnight. They found one point five trillion dollars for Wall Street but they can't find money to provide healthcare and living wages for one hundred forty million poor and low wealth people in America the trump administration's facing widespread criticism for its handling of the corona virus outbreak on Thursday. Dr Anthony Fauci. The Director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases said the. Us is failing when it comes to testing for the virus. The system does not is not really geared to what we need right now. What you are asking for that is a failing and it is a failing very. Let's admit the idea of anybody getting it easily. The way people in other countries are doing it. We're not set up for that. Do I think we should be yes? But we're not the BBC reports nearly twenty thousand. People are being tested for Corona virus every day in South Korea. Far More than the eleven thousand tests done in the United States since the outbreak began months ago on Capitol Hill House Speaker. Nancy Pelosi said she's close to reaching a deal with the White House on a corona virus aid package that includes funding for temporary paid sick leave and free virus testing on Thursday democratic congresswoman. Katie Porter of California grilled Centers for Disease Control Director Robert Redfield on the affordability of Corona virus. Testing Dr Redfield. Do you want to know who has the colonel virus? In who doesn't yes not just rich people but everybody might have the virus. All of America will you commit to the CDC right now using that existing authority to pay for diagnostic testing free to every American regardless of insurance. Well I can say that we're going to do everything to make sure everybody can get the time Dr Redfield. You have the existing authority. Will you commit right now to using the authority that you have vested in you under law that provides a public health emergency for testing treatment exam isolation out cost? Yes or no what? I'm going to say I'm going to review in detail with no in more news. On the corona virus. The press secretary of Brazilian President Sharable Sonata has tested positive for cove in nineteen. The official was photographed last week standing shoulder to shoulder with president trump and just a few feet from vice president. Mike Pence during both Sinatra's recent trip tomorrow Lago and Florida the official is also seen standing just behind trump and video taken at the meeting at trump's mar a lago resort South Carolina. Senator Lindsey Graham. Who was at the Mar? A LAGO meeting says he will self quarantine while awaiting the results of corona virus test. So we'll Florida senator. Rick Scott who met separately with Bolsonaro and the eight on Monday the White House however said President. Trump does not plan to get tested and he has repeatedly said this. Meanwhile Australia's Home Minister. Peter Dutton has tested positive for corona virus. Last week he met with President Trump's daughter Ivanka trump and attorney general William bar in Canada. Sophie Gregoire Trudeau the wife of Prime Minister Justin Trudeau tested positive for Kovic nineteen Thursday. She reported mild flu like symptoms after a trip to the UK. Prime Minister Trudeau. Says he does not have symptoms but will work for my solution for fourteen days in the Philippines president. Rodrigo duterte ordered a lockdown of Metropolitan Manila home to thirteen million people to charities. Order cuts off land domestic air and sea travel to and from Metro. Manila and imposes bans. On mass. Gatherings schools have been ordered shut for month and community. Quarantining is in effect local officials WHO DEFIED GOVERNMENT ORDERS FACE. Jail time was tested for corona virus after possible exposure. Meanwhile six of his Cabinet Ministers Sixteen lawmakers and the Philippines Central Bank governor have all gone into self quarantine as the corona virus continues to spread in the United States. Immigration advocates are afraid of a deadly outbreak inside immigration jails Silky Shah Executive Director of detention. Watch network said in a statement. Quote lives are already at risk and detention and with the spread of Corona virus? People are sitting ducks in a system. Notorious for its fatally flawed medical care unquote. They're also mounting concerns that the deportation of asylum seekers from the US and Mexico could accelerate the spread of corona virus across Central America. Honduras cancelled the arrival of flights with people who were deported as the country already declared its first. Two cases of the virus. El Salvador has declared a national quarantine banned all foreign travellers. Even though it hasn't had any confirmed corona virus cases yet this comes as the Guatemalan government announced Wednesday. It would ban the entry of European citizens as well as people from Iran China South Korea. North Korea has an attempt to control the spread of cove in nineteen. Meanwhile doctors working at a refugee camp. Aiding thousands of people in border city of Matamoros are preparing for the inevitable arrival of the corona virus to shelters and camps across the US. Mexico border one doctor at the MONTEMURRO shelter said Cova Nineteen infections along the border will be quote catastrophic and other news from the US Mexico border a nineteen year old pregnant woman from what Allah has died from injuries. She sustained after she fell while attempting to scale the US Border. Wall attempts to deliver her unborn. Baby were unsuccessful after she fell more than nineteen thousand feet. The Democratic National Committee has announced Sunday's Democratic presidential debate between Joe Biden and Bernie Sanders will take place in CNN studios in Washington DC instead of an Arizona because of the cove in nineteen outbreak. There will be no live audience on Thursday Senator Sanders called on President Trump to declare a national emergency and for everyone in the country to be able to get the health care. They need without cost time in the modern history of our country when we are all in this together. This is that moment now is the time for solidarity. Now is the time to come together with love and compassion for all including the most vulnerable people in our society who will face this and DEMOC. From a health perspective or pace of from an economic perspective Sanders also called for an immediate moratorium evictions for Closures and Utility Shut offs during the crisis on Thursday. The Miami Dade Police Department announced its officers would not assist with addictions during the pandemic outbreak. Joe Biden has called for scientists to be in charge of dealing with the corona virus pandemic in the United States in Iraq. The United States launched a series of air raids targeting Iran backed militia groups the US described the attacks as retaliation for a rocket attack that killed two US soldiers and a British army medic Wednesday Aljazeera reports Iraq's military confirmed the US air raids late. Thursday night hit four locations including an airport under construction in the holy city of Karbala. There have been injuries but no fatalities reported so far. No one has claimed responsibility for Wednesday's rocket attack against British. Us troops but the US blamed the iranian-backed Hezbollah militia back in the United States. Us Army Whistle Blower Chelsea. Manning will soon be released from jail after one year behind bars on contempt charges for refusing to in a federal grand jury investigation into wikileaks. The order for her immediate release comes one day after. Manning was hospitalized Virginia after she reportedly attempted suicide at a federal prison in Alexandria on Thursday judge and the triangle wrote quote. The court finds Ms Manning's appearance before the grand jury is no longer needed in light of which her detention no longer serves any coercive purpose judge triangle however rejected a request to cancel the fines imposed against manning for refusing to testify. Manning will now have to pay two hundred fifty six thousand dollars in two thousand thirteen Chelsea. Manning was sentenced to thirty five years in prison for leaking documents and videos to wikileaks showing evidence of us. War Crimes in Iraq and Afghanistan. President Obama granted clemency in two thousand seventeen a vocal supporter of Donald. Trump was sentenced Wednesday to a one year prison term for threatening to assault and murder Minnesota Congress member Ilhan Omar Fifty five year. Old Patrick Carly Neo Junior. Who told investigators he loves the president and hates radical Muslims in our government unquote cold. Congress member Ilhan Omar's office in two thousand eighteen and delivered the threaten an expletive Laden rant. Congress member Omar is one of the first two Muslim women elected to Congress in is the only lawmaker to wear a hijab at sentencing. Hearing in federal court in Western New York Wednesday Carlino received a short prison term after Congress member. Omar pleaded for leniency. She wrote in a statement to the judge quote. The answer to hate is not more hate. It's compassion. He should understand the consequences of his actions. Be Given the opportunity to make amends and seek redemption the congresswoman said in climate news top United Nations researchers are warning that polarize capture melting six times. Faster than they were in the nineteen nineties. Threatening Sea level rise that will displace hundreds of millions of people. By the end of the century the intergovernmental panel on climate change ice loss data from Greenland. Tactica is in line with some of the most pessimistic predictions of climate change and then even if global carbon emissions were somehow halted today. Arctic ice will continue to melt for another three decades in South Carolina in one thousand nine hundred eighty eight anti lgbtq Q. Law that prohibited public schools from mentioning same sex relationships and sex and health. Education has been declared unconstitutional by a US district judge. The banning of the outdated law comes two weeks after a federal lawsuit was filed by the National Center for Lesbian Rights. Lambda legal on behalf of a high school. Lgbtq student organization and other LGBTQ rights groups. The lawsuit said the one thousand nine hundred law violated the fourteenth amendment by discriminating against. Lgbtq students has prevented them from having access to vital health education. Colorado State lawmakers have approved a bill to replace Columbus Day with a holiday honoring Francis Savior Breen the patron saint of immigrants. The Leadership Council the American Indian Movement of Colorado celebrated passage of the bill writing quote for decades the holiday officially justified the substitution fallacy for history and repeating a false narrative about the heroism of Columbus while ignoring his Taliban crimes against the Indigenous Peoples of the Americas unquote. If the bill is signed by Governor Jared Polis Colorado will join twelve other states and dozens of local governments that will no longer celebrate Columbus Day. Most of the now celebrate indigenous Peoples Day in. Its place and those are some of the headlines. This is democracy now democracy now dot or the Warren Peace Report. I'm Amy Goodman. It's been seven weeks since the first case of Corona virus was reported in the United States. Today we look at how the trump administration has failed to account for what may be thousands of infections because of ongoing problems with access to testing here in the United States. The number of reported corona virus infections jumped by four hundred Thursday alone to about sixteen fifty but the actual number is believed to be far far higher congresses. In House doctor has privately told Capitol Hill. Staffers that he expects seventy to one hundred fifty million people in the United States will contract the corona virus. Six states have announced plans to close all public schools. Oregon Ohio Michigan Maryland Kentucky and New Mexico schools in Houston Texas near Seattle are also closing. Almost five million. Children are being impacted by the school. Closings only major sporting events in the United States have been halted the NCW has cancelled the upcoming men and women's College Basketball tournaments known as March Madness Disney has shuttered all its theme parks around the world including Disney world in Florida. New York State's ban public gatherings of more than five hundred people Broadway has shut down on Thursday New York City mayor. Bill de Blasio declared a state of emergency as the number of confirmed cases in the city jumped from forty two to ninety five in a single day again. These numbers are striking and troubling. We now and even compared to this morning. We've seen a big jump. We now have ninety five confirmed cases as forty two new since yesterday. So you can see the progression now. Mayor de Blasios estimated New York could have a thousand cases of corona virus by next week and said quote. We're getting into a situation where the only analogy is war unquote the New York Times reports fewer than two thousand people in New York have been tested. There have been just eleven thousand tests throughout the United States. Compared this what. Bbc is reporting. Nearly twenty thousand people are being tested for Corona virus every day in South Korea alone at a Congressional hearing Thursday on the Corona virus outbreak Democratic Congress member Debbie Wasserman Schultz of Florida press. Cdc Director Robert Redfield on the limited availability of Corona virus tests medical workers who think they've been exposed. Redfield was unable to answer and then turn to National Institute of Health official. Dr Anthony Fauci for guidance. This is how Dr Fao Who's the director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases? Top MEMBER OF TRUMP'S CORONA VIRUS. Task Force responded. The system does not is not really geared to what we need right now. What you are asking for that is a failing and it is a failing. Let's admit it. The fact is the way the system was set up. Is that the public health component. That doctor that doctor Redfield was talking about was a system where you put it out there in the public and a physician asks for it and you get the idea of anybody getting it easily. The way people in other countries are doing it. We're not set up for that. Do I think we should be yes? But we're not okay. That's really disturbing. And I appreciate the information. Dr Found she. Statement appeared to directly refute a claim president trump made just last week. Anybody that needs a desk. It's a test we there there they have the. Does anybody WANNA test gets test. That's what president trump said. This comes the trump administration's corona virus task forces gun two days with no press briefings and the World Health Organization has officially classified the Corona virus outbreak as a pandemic for the rest of the hour. We're joined by two guests and Baltimore. Justin Leslie is with us. He's associate professor at the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health Senior author and new study that suggests the median incubation period for the new corona viruses about five days and joining us from Stanford University. Which is now close to students on campus. It's got online learning. Dr Steven Goodman is with US associate dean at Stanford Medical School where he's also a professor of epidemiology and Population Health and medicine. Oh and he's also my brother. He joins us from Stanford University. Yes they are continuing light Johns Hopkins to hold their classes online over concerns about Cova. Nineteen we welcome you both to democracy. Now Steve Let's begin with you. I consider you my lifeline on issues like this and that's why we called you. Why don't we start? By this issue of testing it is absolutely astounding that in countries like north like in countries like South Korea where we hear the test or something like twenty thousand a day in this country. It is believed that there have only been eleven thousand tests over the entire period of this outbreak. How is this possible? What happened? Well I don't know all the details of what happened. But it is clear that they were decisions that were made centrally about what test to use and restrictions on who could do the test that has been changed and finally other laboratories including one at Stanford have finally been authorized to Develop and now deliver their own tests so the original decisions to use a US specific test not the one That was suggested by the. Who which has been used in many many other countries in retrospect obviously was a big mistake and we had trouble manufacturing and distributing a valid test centralized at the CDs. Now this is a critical issue. Right I mean there was a test available. It was the World Health Organization tests the one that countries all over the world are using now but the CDC made a decision not to accept that test. They made their own passed. Sent it out and it was faulty. That's right now. We're having to depend on the many labs around the country and commercial laboratories to develop and offer this test. We are really just gearing up now for that The Stanford test which is the one that's being used regionally also for a variety of medical institutions. I think they This week they were offering between two and three hundred a day. They say that next week they'll be up to about a thousand a day. That obviously is not remotely enough to track the where the epidemic is going But that's what we have right now. Regionally nationally I don't know what the capacity is but as Dr Fao. She said we are way way behind. Well let's bring Professor Justin Wrestler into this conversation from Hopkins from Johns Hopkins. Let's talk about. Why testing is so important. Why is it so important that we know in this country Where the disease is where the outbreak is. Why is it important to know the number I mean this is our ability to have situational awareness about what's going on with the virus where it is how to react. So the most extreme measures that we take to combat the virus essentially potentially closing whole cities down like they did in China Italy. We don't WanNa do those places where there isn't a lot of you know there isn't actually a lot of disease and we don't want to wait till the hospitals are filling up with dead people to do those because then it's too late so we want to react in time and that has to that means we need testing and that means we need to be testing with the right intention. I think there is still some inertia towards trying to test people who've traveled etc with the idea that we're going to go around those people and contain and Tristar contacts and try to find those chains of transmission But I think we maybe need to rethink that with the idea that we really want is situational awareness about what's going on in the community and what's our silent out you know. What silent outbreaks might be happening so that we can respond? Accordingly in our public health measures in terms of people isolating themselves. Dr Steve Goodman if you can talk about what it means not to have a test so you don't know even if you've been exposed to someone who has tested positive and also. Isn't that true that these tests at this point in most cases take days to get results although there are some that are now being developed that simply take hours but what it means for people protecting the community well as Justin said people don't actually know what the threat is. They don't know how many people around them have the disease and they don't know Obviously whether they themselves have the disease if if they have been exposed so it's very very difficult for either public health authorities to calibrate the response properly is Justin Just described or individuals to calibrate their own actions. And and I also want to point out that when we talk about self-isolation or anything that an individual can do the paradigm really has to be not. Just what can I do to protect myself? But what can we each do to protect each other and the act of self isolation is not just individual protection is protecting everybody. You're in contact with but to know how extreme the behavior should be whether you should not go to a park whether you should not go to. The store is very much driven by. Your awareness is just describe it. Situational awareness of how many cases there are often silent cases in your own community in your own neighborhood going to your own stores so this decision. That's personal decision has social and health consequences but without testing. We're flying blind. I WANNA go to the issue of Corona virus. And if you could talk about the different steve or what? The language is corona virus. Cova nine thousand nine hundred for people to understand. Explain that the lexicon there of this disease and also how it compares to the flu. President trump has repeatedly tried to say that the flu kills tens of thousands of people. He said who knew the flu killed. It actually turns out that his grandfather. Friedrich trump died of the flu in this country at a young age but he tried to use it to show you know. Corona virus doesn't even compare so talk about both the language we use and what it means in comparison with the flow. Well Cova nineteen is the name of the disease not the virus specifically And what we're most concerned about is obviously The spread of the disease. Let me talk about The flu and the flu is a big killer and it doesn't affect many people. I think we have roughly in the range of fifteen to twenty million in this season alone in the United States with roughly one in two thousand death rates so in the in the range of fifteen to twenty thousand deaths from the flu so a flu is very very serious. But that represents roughly five to seven percent of the population and the We have and the reason it doesn't represent more is because both we have flu shots and we have years decades of of of of sort of cross reactive immunity built up over people who've been exposed to different Virus strains the difference in this with this virus is to first of all no one is immune so in theory. A hundred percent of the population is susceptible to this virus or very close to it. the second part is the the fatality rate Either for people who present to the medical care system sick enough to go to a doctor or per infection which is something different because not everybody who is infected necessarily goes to a doctor looks to be a fair bit higher than the flu. Maybe on the order of five times maybe even ten times higher than the flu so we have a maybe a much much larger reservoirs susceptible people on the order of ten to twenty times larger and we have a fatality rate. That is between five and ten times larger. So that's why the potential for this even though we have a tiny fraction of the cases and deaths right now why we're taking the extreme measures that we are taking now. All that said a lot of the Taliban rate can be affected by what we do. And that's why we're doing it now. Because the fatality rate is a function both of the age of the people who are infected but also of the capability of the medical care system to take care of them. So we can protect the medical care system that is keep the number of patients coming in at a rate that they can be cared for with adequate ICU beds and ventilators et Cetera. And also healthy Medicare folks. We can keep the That we can keep the totality rate low or least lower than it would have been without that. We're going to break come back to this discussion. We're going to talk about strategies to keep yourself and your family healthy what to say to children both of you. Dr Goodman and Dr. Leslie have children how you're talking to them about. What could be to say the least extremely frightening for them as it is for the whole population and I want to ask Dr. Less learned about the study. He did in China comparing Wuhan and how it dealt with the corona virus with community. Right next door. We're talking to Dr Steven Goodman. He is associate dean of the Stanford Medical School and just an Leslie. Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health. Associate professor this is democracy. Now we'll be back with them in a minute is The where A Long Day is over by Norrie. Jones this is democracy now the warring piece report. I'm Amy Goodman and I also just want to say I can't say enough about the team of people who are making this broadcast possible as everyone in this country right now is dealing with this pandemic as people are around the world it takes a community and we have an amazing one here and I am ever thankful every single day seven weeks since the first case of the corona virus was reported in the United States. We're spending the hour looking at. How the trump administration not only has failed to account for what is clearly thousands of infections in this country because of ongoing problems with access to testing. But we're talking about what needs to happen next. This is the critical issue. We're broadcasting from New York. The mayor of New York just cleared a state of emergency in the city. He said while they're about a hundred people who have tested positive just in New York City alone next week. He expects it to be a thousand just down the road in new Rochelle. Westchester is the epicenter of the Corona Virus And that came from one person who tested positive and very soon after his wife and two kids tested positive and now there's well over one hundred fifty people. The National Guard are now in new Rochelle. The schools are closed. They WANNA make sure kids get food because many kids all over this country get free lunch at school. What happens when the schools are closed? So we're going to be talking about a lot of issues still with us. Is Dr Steven Goodman? Associate Dean at Stanford Medical School where he's also professor of academia in population health and medicine Trained as a pediatrician. He is also my brother. My lifeline on issues like these. He's joining us from Stanford University and joining us from Baltimore is Justin Leslie Associate Professor at the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health Senior author on a new study that suggests the median incubation period for the new corona viruses about five days so Justin Leffler I WANNA start there. What does that mean? Why is that significant that the incubation period is perhaps five days? We've been hearing a lot about ten and fourteen and then I want to ask you about your work in China. So the median incubation period is five days so that means a fifty percent of people are going to develop symptoms within five days of being infected. But it's important to remember that's not necessarily the number we're most concerned with if we're thinking about quarantine active monitoring or self-isolation after a potential exposure. Because you know we don't have the people who are infected to be out there on in the community potentially spreading the virus before they know they have it so what we're more concerned with is what we call the long tail of that and that's where we get to the fact that in our study we showed that about ninety. Eight percent of people develop symptoms by twelve days which suggests that the fourteen day period of quarantine or active monitoring suggested by almost every public health agency around the world is pretty good. I mean some people will get through that But you know but it's pretty good and it's going to capture. The vast majority of people who would develop symptoms will do so during that period. So let me ask you about your work in China. Talk about the study that you just completed comparing Luhan to a neighboring city. Tell us about the outbreak in Wuhan. What happened how it was dealt with and how it was dealt with nearby so just to be clear. Our study was looking at the epidemiology in China. We weren't directly comparing with Wuhan but Wuhan just to talk about it. Had you know is the epicenter of the entire outbreak? They clearly had things get out of control in the beginning and had the shut down the entire city and really a lot of the whole province of WHO bay which they've now had to do in Italy as well so it's an example of both how bad things can get if we're not careful about staying on top of things and very proactive. But it's also an example of the fact that you know massive direct action can sort of squash the epidemic and stop the virus so where we did our work in Shenzhen. There hasn't been a big outbreak and part of that. I think is a proactive. Social distancing measures so the types of things. We're starting to see in the United States. Now GET STOPPING MASS EVENTS. Having people work from home and the like but they also had very intensive surveillance and very intensive contact tracing of cases that came in from. Who Bay province and elsewhere in China and that probably played a big role in why they didn't have an epidemic. So can you talk about the fact that it looks like both in China? It's hard to say we're saying there's good news out of China right now because of this terrible pandemic but the actual good news. That's coming out of China and South Korea as opposed to what we're seeing right now in Italy and now the United States were just beginning understand the scope of the outbreak here. Yes China clearly has been able to contain the disease at least temporarily. I think there's a big question of what happens as they start to dial back. All of the extreme measures they've taken in order to contain the disease and whether. We see a resurgence or whether they're excuse me whether they're able to do that. In a way that more gradually a more gradual dial dial back in a way that prevents the virus from resurging and in the country and Italy. Is You know I think? Italy's taking a similar course to China where it remains to be seen. How effective it is you know it is in Italy. It's very different. Culturally population is different and us were in a different part of the outbreak. And I think the hope is since we're early by doing things proactively canceling the NBA cancelling the NCAA tournament. Everybody working from home closing schools that we can get to a point where we're slowing the spread of this virus without having to have measures as extreme as we're taken in China Dr Steve Goodman if you talk about what's happened in Italy The horrific Turn of events there where the entire country is on lockdown where the medical system is clearly overwhelmed and then talk about the United States and this whole issue of flattening the curve a term. I think a lot of people are just beginning to hear right now. But what do you understand? Took place in Italy Well I haven't I don't have special expertise about Exactly what's going on Italy? But what is very very clear. Is that the The gree of spread and And present a has overwhelmed. The medical care system. That is very clear. So part of what's happening. There is an example of winning when an epidemic goes to its peak and is greater than the medical infrastructure. Can Take care of it and as you may know There have been extremely poignant. pieces Both tweets and and other forms of communication by Italian doctors who literally have with great distress talked about how they had to basically choose life and death for patients for whom they had to choose who to ventilate and who not to because they had a limited number of ventilators. So we don't want to get there in this country so again. It shows that the case fatality rate which ultimately is one of the numbers that that produces the most fear is a is a function not only how many cases or how many serious cases but how much can be absorbed and properly treated by the medical care system. And so that gets right into your second question which is about flattening the curve. The the goal of mitigation efforts now which is to obviously lower the number of cases and spread them out is to keep the number of cases to a level where the medical care system can adequately take care of each one where we have enough personnel where we have an offense leaders. We have enough. Icu beds we have enough beds in the hospital. Take care of everybody. Optimally and the idea of flattening the curve is taking a certain number of cases that would occur in a certain period of time and spreading it out over time for the peak is less and so it occurs over a much longer period of time and hopefully obviously also reducing the number of cases but this match both regionally and nationally between the number of facilities personnel beds and equipment This has to be matched with a number of cases that are in that area. It would be nice to hear from public health officials or national officials how they plan to shift resources. If in fact the medical care capabilities in any particular region is outstripped by the number of cases. But that's what flattening the curve is all about and that's what all of the measures just described by yourself and by Justin are attempting to do and this issue of respirators in the United States of ventilators of the access. Most people they do not want to go to the hospital even to their doctors offices Most people actually will survive this and it's like Flu and for many people it's mild and for children even less so though they can be carriers but this issue of overwhelming. The number of respirators ventilators hospitals around the country. Can you explain that well? Obviously the numbers are limited. I think we have on the order of a million beds and The actual number they're available in any one day about a third of that the number of ICU beds is a fraction of that. And I WANNA make a particular point that this is not just about caring for Cova patients the the number of covert patients entering. The system affects the care of other patients. So the kinds of things that we take for granted in terms of care of any of us for any serious disease is affected by the demand on the medical care system for the care of Kobe patients. So we are not Geared up as a society for the with the surge capacity to handle the number of potential Kovic patients that we would get if we didn't do anything so the kinds of things we're doing now are to keep the numbers below the surge capacity the limited very limited searched Bassetti that we have and again. This is not just a national issue. We can't just count up the number of national beds. We have to look at this regionally. The number of cases in New York City with a number of ICU beds in New York City and have facility to move those cases. If in fact those numbers don't match up Steve Goodman is associate dean at Stanford Medical School. Justin less ler is a professor at Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health. Where continuing with them. After this break. Awesome the reckoner by radiohead. This is democracy. Now I mean goodman the British government says up to ten thousand people may now be infected by the corona virus on Thursday British Prime Minister. Boris Johnson called on people who are sick to self quarantine. This is the worst public health crisis for regeneration. Some people compare it to seasonal flu. Alas that he's not right owing to the lack of ood immunity. This disease is more dangerous. And it's going to spread further and I must level with you level with the British public. More families. Many more families are going to lose loved ones before that time. British Prime Minister Johnson. He did not close. Schools are banned gatherings of more than five hundred people. Britain's chief medical officer said in a worst case scenario more than eighty percent of Britain would contract the virus with one percent mortality rate that equates to more than half a billion deaths five hundred thousand half a million deaths half a million here in the United States during his press conference in Vermont Thursday Senator Sanders said the federal government would prioritize the care of communities. Who are that. They should prioritize the care of communities. Most vulnerable during the corona virus pandemic the elderly people with disabilities in house. People low income people. Those who are uninsured an unemployed we need also in this economic crisis to place an immediate moratorium on evictions on Foreclosures and on Utility shut offs. So that no one loses their home during this crisis and that everyone has access to clean water electricity heat and air conditioning. We need to construct emergency homeless shelters to make sure that the homeless survivors of domestic violence and college students quarantined off. Campus are able to receive the shelter the health care and the nutrition they need Bernie Sanders and Joe Biden. We'll debating in Washington D. C. as opposed to Arizona where they were going to debate and there will not be an audience because of the Corona Virus Dr Steve Goodman Dan Dean at Stanford Medical School and Justin Leisler professor at Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health or with us from Baltimore and from Stanford California Dr Steve Goodman this issue of the poor in the United States and people who are working poor who are without insurance people who are unemployed while everyone says that the corona virus hits everyone which is clearly true there are communities that are particularly vulnerable right now how they be protected well this is an issue for public health officials. Obviously they have to be able to take the same measures that anybody would take to to reduce the spread. The ones we've already talked about however the ability for less wealthy or poor individuals to take time off from work to sequester themselves in their homes To Take care of their children May Be quite different than than others. So we we have to think about it. I think Bernie has it about right. We have to think about this as a social responsibility. Not just a an issue for individual action because people's ability to protect themselves are constrained by their own economic circumstances in their own living circumstances if they're living in very very tight quarters with many people in in in in in communities where other people might be sick it is very very difficult for them to take care of themselves and needless to say if they don't have access to medical care or they're afraid to seek it because of Because they're afraid of the bills. That's another huge problem. Easy for people to get tested and to access care and if they're undocumented and afraid to seek and afraid to seek testing as well absolutely justin less slur if you could also address this issue and then. I'd like to ask you how you're talking to your children so I agree. It's absolutely critical to find ways to protect those populations that are not going to be able to take social distancing measures have more trouble with that potentially have food insecurity if they don't go to school or go to places where there might be mass gatherings and I think you know it's one of those things where we do have an individual responsibility not to just you know. Keep ourselves out of the community but do things to help others. Keep themselves out of the community. You know the government is going to be overwhelmed by this and you know we're not as a country set up to provide services in a crisis the way is maybe needed now and now there's a bill being weighed. The Democrat led. House set to vote on a bill that would grant workers fourteen days of paid sick. Leave up to three months of paid family and medical leave. Unemployment Insurance to furloughed workers includes additional five hundred million dollars to help feed low income pregnant women or mothers with young children who lose their jobs or laid off because of the virus outbreak President Trump said. He did not support the bill. But because we're coming to the end of this conversation as people push hard for the entire community to be protected the that sits individuals but it also brings out the importance of people around the world as a community. Can you talk about what you're saying to your kids professor less ler? Yeah I mean my son is six and his school just got cancelled so I'm trying to explain to them that there's the disease out there. It's scary It's wondering why his dad's working so much but the I'm trying to explain to him that it's important to wash his hands that it's important to you know. Think about what he's doing out there in the community and that maybe he won't be able to go to school do the same things that is that he is usually able to do for fun. I can talk more explicitly to my mother who is in their seventies in high risk who I had to sort of say this is real. Stay home self isolate. Don't don't go out and this is why is that. The children don't tend to children. This is not as fatal for as it is for older people especially over seventy and eighty right. I mean and Wuhan at last report I saw from Honda was in detail out of out of thousand deaths over a thousand deaths. Only one was in people somebody under twenty years of age so it's pretty mild and children do not seem to be at risk even more so than the flu where we see children get sick and potentially die occasionally in the youngest age. That doesn't seem to be happening right now for the current virus and but we do not know we know they can get infected and we do not know whether or not they can pass it on so you know keeping children Critical part of our more imperilled presumably. We don't know for sure And Steve What you tell your kids my nieces and nephew who are bit older but also as so many people in this country afraid right now. So what's interesting is that my kids are both in college actually here at Stanford and they're more worried for us. I don't have to tell them everything anything they read. They're smart and they're much more concerned about their threat to us than Than than anything else. So they're taking the steps they need to take to prevent us from getting sick. And it's a very interesting reversal of generational roles. Perhaps a premonition of the future but I think this is a responsibility that many young people feel not just protect themselves because they themselves are not that worried but they are definitely worried about the older generation the same way that Justin is concerned about his mom and of course Gerald Starter just had a baby here in New York in the midst of this pandemic indeed. Yes and she is Naturally self isolating but Is is being extremely careful about her own exposure and needless say their new child. Well I WANNA thank you both for being with us Dr Steven Goodman Associate Dean at Stanford Medical School where he's also professor epidemiology and public health and medicine and also my brother and just in less ler says she professor Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health. We also want to welcome to the world. Andre Sorry Marino Camarena congratulations to eagerly and Drian. That does it for our show. Everyone wash your hands be safe. I'm Amy Goodman an enormous. Thank you to the whole team. That may democracy now happened today.
Ep. 978 - The Un-Askable Question
"President trump considers reopening the economy as a epidemiologist protests. The media tried to blame trump for some dude. Actually eating fish tank cleaner and Democrats continue to play politics with an economic rescue bill bench grow. This is the Ben Shapiro Show. Uh Today's show is sponsored by express. Vpn stand up your digital rights. Take Action Right now at express. Vpn Dot com slash man? I really now getting hacked right now. Express VPN DOT com slash to protect your online activity. Okay we begin as always with your latest updates on the news before we get to the politics. So the corona virus map today is showing a vast increase in the number of deaths in the United States over one hundred deaths yesterday in the United States. We're up to five hundred ninety. One total deaths at this hour in the United States from Corona Virus. Forty six thousand four hundred eighty five cases diagnosed so far now. We are expecting these numbers to rise. Obviously that is not a great shock again. We are testing once we start testing. You're going to start finding things that you are testing for. As opposed to what China? There's rumors that China's actually continuing to see coronavirus cases and they stopped testing. And that's why they're not seeing an increase in the number of cases that are out there now. One of the big problems here is that China Path is one of the great hopes for the world. Because China's been able to tamp this thing down it makes everybody feel like okay. Well maybe we can tamp this thing down to. That's why more people are putting faith at this point in South Korea which is C. Nine thousand total cases in one hundred and twenty and has not completely shut down their economy to do so. The difference being South Korea had massive testing regimes already in place. Thanks to h one n one in their response to SARS in the in the past because of all of that they had been pretty well prepared for all of this. The United States simply was not in your late on the game. Because we're late on the game the entire ballgame here has been. How do we shift from Chinese lockdown strategies? Everybody stay home into South Korean social distancing. Everybody were mask strategies were most of us can go back to work. If you're sick stay home. If you're elderly vulnerable you stay home right. Everybody keeps saying I hear this from a lot of people on the right side of the. Why don't the old people and the vulnerable people? Why don't they just stay home? And everybody else goes back to work and the problem is right now. There's too much social mixing. You don't know who has it who does not. There's no way to tamp down the people who actually are sick and so because we have not yet gotten this thing under control. You can't go to South Koreans measures. The question is how fast we can get there. Meanwhile in Italy the situation continues to be incredibly grim. Italy has about sixty four thousand cases at this hour with approximately six thousand total deaths. Their death rate is significantly higher than that of the United States. Again we have. We are gaining on them in terms of total number of cases but we have fewer well under one thousand deaths at this point. Just about six hundred. That's Italy has sixty four thousand cases in six thousand deaths that is because their healthcare systems being overwhelmed and that is why so many people in the United States right now are worried about the overwhelming of our healthcare system. At this time that is why people are also worried about Abed's shortage looming in California. According to The New York Times Governor Gavin newsom estimates California will be short about seventeen thousand hospital although the state is frantically trying to source thousands more of them. The pace of testing remains stubbornly slow in California are then hearing from hospitals in the area that they are indeed inundated with people are coming in for Corona virus. Although we have heard no stories about ventilator shortages at this point in time Elon. Musk actually came up with a thousand ventilators yesterday. Where quickly ramping up? Production across the country of ventilators of masks of personal protective equipment. That's those as you hear everybody talking about. And the fact is that takes a little while for the US economy to get going on this sort of stuff but once industry kicks in we are fantastic at producing what it is. We actually need to produce. New York state has conducted twice as many tests as California for the virus as of Monday. New York attest almost eight thousand people including thirty three thousand in New York City California had conducted twenty six thousand four hundred test by Sunday. That was the most recent data available officials in California rush to reopen hospitals. That had been shuttered by motels to house. The states more than one hundred and fifty thousand homeless people and retrofit college dormitories to serve as hospital. Wards again the homeless problem in California continues to rear its ugly head because the fact is that Los Angeles homeless people are not exactly socially distancing now all of the fun and Games with regard to letting people live on the streets declaring ever right to live on the streets and be a health threat. It turns out that has some pretty serious consequences. There's some video of La Homeless folks not exactly people who are concerned about cleanliness and social distancing at this point and you can drive around Los Angeles right now and you can see. There's nobody anywhere but you'll see large congregations of homeless people in downtown. La under overpasses by the river. None of that speaks well of possibility of Tampa down the corona virus epidemic Gavin. Newsom said the state is chartering flights to China to procure protective equipment. China has been has been hoarding all that protective equipment. Oh those wonderful folks in the Chinese government is some video that we're talking about of the situation with the homeless in Los Angeles. That looked like a place that is a thriving and ready for health to you. This johnstown. La Across California. The promise of widespread access to testing for the virus is not yet materialized. Doctors say they were alarmed about shortages of protective equipment. One of the other big problem. Is that the states are handling this sort of differently and so well. California has lockdown and New York has locked down Texas and Florida have not yet completely locked down and this is leading epidemiologists to believe that there could be hot spots in some of the states that have not yet locked down that are not yet measurable meaning. The testing is not happening in Texas and Florida. The same way. It's not happening in California but lockdowns have not really gone into place in Texas in Florida the same way they have gone into place in California either in New York City the attack rate meaning the amount of transmission rather the the number of people who have this thing in the general population in New York is much much higher than anywhere across the rest of the country so far as we can tell. New York is actually testing but in California which is also starting to test. The rates are nowhere near as huge and that is because of course. New York is an extraordinarily populated area. When you have that many people living right on top of each other the possibility of hands. Ma transmission becomes much much higher. There's been true literally forever. This is why when you read old old books about. The plague hits London and all the rich people immediately jump in their characters and head off to the country cottage. There's a reason for that. People are trying to do that. New York right now. They're Frank Fleet of Florida and Florida saying no. You don't get in stay. You're not bringing your corona virus with you here. Dr Deborah Brooks pointed this out at a at a press conference with President Trump. Yesterday she said yes. There's an alarming attack rate in New York City. Here's Dr Deborah Brooks The New York Metro area of New Jersey New York City. I'm parts of Long Island. Have an attack rate close to one thousand. This is five times what the other areas are seeing their through the high throughput lab investigations. We're finding that twenty. Eight percent of the submitted specimens are positive from that area where it's less than eight percent and the rest of the country so to all of my friends and colleagues in New York. This is the group that needs to absolutely social distance and self isolate at this time. All of that obviously is true. Tens of the Israeli enemy in a situation like this says Dr Steven Goodman and epidemiologist at Stanford University with large population centers where people are interacting with more people. All the that's where it is going to spread the fastest. We'll get you more corona virus updates particularly economic updates. Because we're starting to ask the UNESCAPABLE question here and that is the question that we should have been asking all along. How do you balance all the policy considerations and I know that that's considered bad taste? We're not supposed to say things. Like how exactly do we generate a policy that is most likely to save the economy and also save lives? Were instead supposed to say that everything shuts down until every life is saved. And that of course is not plausible. I mean the fact is that we had some point going to have to unlock the economy. The question is how we do that in the safest possible way. That doesn't mean that we go back to work tomorrow without any protective measures. It also doesn't mean we keep the economy locked down interminably forever because that is not going to happen either people. I've seen a lot of folks who are protesting that that president trump and people who are talking about the economy. You're overlooking human life. How could you look in life? It's not that you're overlooking human life. Is that every public policy. Consideration is a balancing of various outcomes. That you're waiting and if the suggestion is that we do everything we can in the United States to save even one human life. Well then we should all be walking around bubble. Forget about it all the time. If you walk around and bubbles we should go back to horse and buggies the fact is that lots of things we could do in the United States to quote Unquote Save. Lives they also happen to destroy the economy. Which would have its own horrific side effects so all of this is public policy balancing and that's not an unspeakable question in fact it's the only question that is worth asking at this point when you're talking about government policy when you're talking about what exactly the federal government state governments ought to do when you get to more of this in just one second first. Let's talk about how you are going to look when you emerge from this situation. Are you GONNA look sharp? Are you GONNA look cool? So let me tell you something. I am. Not a natural born cowboy. Right I'm an Orthodox Jew from a major city but I've always had a soft spot for a cowboy attire and this is particularly true of boots. Well a few years back I went on. I got myself a pair of cowboy boots. 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Duffy's men's jeans belts billfold carcases and more everything you get from two covers comes with these same calculated approach and quality standards that holds to holds true for everything. They do really fantastic fantastic. Promise I love where my coves boots makes me feel like a cowboy? Even though I don't have to look like somebody who can't handle cowboy boots. Do what I did. Get yourself a pair of kovas cowboy boots today at Kobe's dot com slash Ben. You are enough of a man to wear cowboy boots. So long as they're Tacoma's that is T. E. C. O. V. S. dot com slash Ben to Cova Dot com slash. Go check them out right now. Okay so the reason that people are are starting to go nuts about. Even mild considerations of public policy is because they're afraid that we are going to jump one way or the other that we're going to jump precipitously back into a vast amounts of social life with no social distancing and everybody going back to work and then millions of people die or alternatively the economy is going to be shut down forever and those are not the only two approaches. They better not be the only two approaches because those are the only two approaches. The neither one of those is worth choosing but to pretend that there are no economic effects of this that we can do this. Interminable is of course idiotic. Nelson shorts at the New York Times writes. The American economy is facing a plunge into uncharted waters. Economists say there's little doubt that the nation is headed into recession because of the Corona virus pandemic with businesses shutting down and Americans. Being shut in. It's harder to foresee the bottom. How long it will take to climb back. Jayco chief US economist. At Oxford Economics says the economy's assured of recession output will fall point four percent in first-quarter twelve percents in the second Goldman Sachs says. They expect to twenty four percent. Drop in the second quarter and Morgan. Stanley is saying that it might be up to thirty percents in the second quarter which would be the greatest economic retraction in the history of the United States by a long margin on Thursday. The Labor Department reported that initial jobless claims jumped thirty percent the previous week in one week to two hundred eighty one thousand at the highest level since the aftermath of hurricane in twenty seventeen but Goldman Sachs foresees. That this week this week two point two five million unemployment filings this week so this cannot continue forever and so when president trump talks about how we need to stop this at some point. That of course is true. And that doesn't mean that trump is downplaying. This thing is not downplaying this thing right. Here's president trump. Yesterday press conference. He said Yeah. Things are going to get real bad this week. You're GONNA see the numbers go up by the way the numbers will continue to go up next week. Everything lags and as far as the deaths lags too because people are lingering for week week or two at the hospital sometimes before they die. Here's President Trump. Yesterday saying yeah. Things are going to be pretty bad this week. We're going to be bad and we have a lot of people dying from the flu as you know. We have a very bad flu season on top of everything else. It's very bad. It looks like it could be over fifty thousand and certainly is going to be bad and we tried to make it So that it's much much less bad and that's what we're doing. I think we're doing a very good job of it. The president did announce new measures that are being taken by the federal government yesterday. He said that FEMA is disturbing millions of critical supplies and it is true. They are activating in terms of getting an n ninety five masks out to as many medical workers as possible ramping out the distribution of personal protective equipment. Everybody is indeed mobilizing in a crisis. The crisis doesn't stop just because people are mobilizing. The question is how long it takes to alleviate the crisis. Here's president trump announcing the getting directly involved distributing. Eight million. In Ninety. Five respirator masks. And thirteen point. Three MILLION SURGICAL MASKS. Of course the country right now focusing on the areas with the greatest need we've shipped seventy three pallets of personal protective equipment to New York City and thirty six pallets to the state of Washington in the past ninety six hours famous also received donations of approximately six point. Five million masks who having millions and millions of masks made as we speak so that is good news. President trump also says that we are pursuing coronavirus treatments. In record time they're developing a vaccine pushing it as fast as they possibly again. Here's the president on Corona's treatments. At my direction the federal government is working to help update large quantities of clerk win and you can look from any standpoint tomorrow in New York. We think tomorrow. Pretty early the Hydroxy Laura Quinn and does he. Pack I think is a combination probably is looking very very good. And it's going to be distributed with ten thousand units going and it'll be distributed tomorrow. It'll be available. Got approved in record. Setting time has never been anything even close to President. Trump has been pushing this hydroxy chloroquine solution. It is not clear at this point. They're not tested. Trials as far as hydroxy chloroquine in any mass numbers to see whether this thing is incredibly effective across the board trump. Did pump hydroxy chloroquine again yesterday at his press conference. He's pushing this thing pretty hard. There've been a lot of stories of people who say they feel better after using hydroxy chloroquine in coordination with his Zithromax as zinc. So we'll see if that plays out. It is amazing the lengths to which the media will go in order to try and portray trump mentioning this thing as a grave grave evil so yesterday I mean honestly I was astonished i. I'm not sure I've ever seen trump derangement syndrome as strong as I saw it in the media yesterday this is an unbelievable story is a Heidi Priscilla over at NBC. News tweeted out this tweet yesterday. She tweeted out. Find it here. Oh my God don't take anything. Don't believe anything don't believe anything. The President says in his people because they don't know what they're talking about and don't take anything. Be So careful and call your doctor. This is a heartache will never get over. What exactly is she talking about here. She's talking about a story in which a woman suggested that she and her husband had taken hydroxy chloroquine in order to fend off growing virus even though they've been diagnosed with it and then her husband died and she ended up in the ICU and Heidi tweeted her husband is dead and she's in the ICU. After Ingesting Queen we start from TV every channel all of his buddies and this was safe. She said Trumka basically saying it was pretty much a cure. She implored von Hilliard of NBC. News educate the people according to Heidi Brazil? The couple did not have grown ever symptoms but took. The chloroquine phosphate as a preventative measure. They feared contracting corona virus. The couple each mixed one tablespoon of chloroquine hostile with Soda. Within twenty minutes they began experiencing severe sickness and called nine one one I was in the pantry stacking dog food and I saw it sitting in the back shelf and I thought hey. Isn't that the stuff they were talking about on? Tv and it was hilliard interviewed or from the hospital but over the phone. This is the most horrible day of my life and it feels like my heart is broken. It'll never meant it just broke dead like my husband. I'm sixty one. My husband is sixty eight healthy. No no underlying no diabetes or lung issues. Nothing gave von Hilliard. Has This has this audio with this with this crazy lady talking about how it was trump's fault talking about the woman in the ICU. Trump kept saying it was pretty much basically courage. We have that audio of this woman talking to von Hillier. Nbc This this supposedly National News here about trump killing somebody because he told them to take hydroxy chloroquine approved for other rings and trump. You know basically it pretty much a clear. What would be your message to the American public? Oh my God don't take anything. I don't believe anything. President says 'cause they don't know what they're talking about I was in the pantry stacking food and I just thought thirty in the back of that stuff they talk about on TV. Yeah okay. According to the media it sounds like President. Trump has been pushing chloroquine phosphate and that some lady took his advice give it to herself and her husband and then he died and she's in the ICU. Wait until you hear the punchline of the story which demonstrates the media are full-scale insane insane. I mean this is really the most insane case trump derangement syndrome. I have ever heard of and there's a lot I'm from drains syndrome out there. But the mainstream media picked up on this story the punch line here is unreal seriously. Wait for it okay. First let's talk about the fact that even when all this is over taxes are still going to be a part of your life so you gotTa make sure you get those things right and save money while you are at. That's why you need to lean on legalzoom. 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Four twenty twenty legalzoom is where life meets legal again. Never been a better time to make. Efficiency happened legalzoom can help you do it. Why spend thousands of dollars on lawyers when you can do it inexpensively and get the same? Get the same. Sorta service LEGALZOOM's fantastic again. I personally test. They've been doing a great job for literally decades at this point. Go check them out right now. Legalzoom DOT com today. Get Your Business on track. Okay so what does the punch line to the story? Where trump supposedly killed some dude and and then put his wife in the ICU after recommending. Inappropriate substances It turns out they didn't actually have hydroxy chloroquine phosphate in like you know the medicinal form. They had fish tank cleaner in the back of their closet and fish tank. Cleaner hasn't chloroquine phosphate. And these morons wins in the back. I'm advisedly I am saying this. If you take fish tank cleaner and put it in your body because you heard on the TV's that chloroquine phosphate is good for you. And it literally says on the package not for human consumption and you down it with some soda. That's that's on you okay. That's gone from that's on you because you're stupid. Okay and I feel bad for you that you're stupid but you're stupid like there's no doubt about that. I'm sorry here's the actual story of course if I told you what. Nbc told you you would think that trump said take this pill person took the pill and the person died right. That would be the story but that is not the story. Here's the story from Fox twenty nine in Arizona. Medical experts with banner health are warning the public against using inappropriate medication and household products to prevent or treat corona virus. Warning Banner Health comes after an Arizona. Man in his sixties died from taking a substance use to clean fish tanks at aquariums in order to prevent contracting. Cova in a statement released Monday experts emphasize that chloroquine. Which is a medication used for malaria? Should not be taken to treat or prevent cove in nineteen banner. Health officials say the man who died along with his wife. Both took chloroquine phosphate. The man's wife also in her sixties is currently under critical care officials. Say both were taken to a banner health hospital for immediate treatment after they experienced immediate effects within thirty minutes of taking the substance most patients become infected with Colvin nineteen only require symptomatic Aaron self-isolation to prevent the risk of infecting others. Read a portion of the statement. The routine use of specific treatments including medications described as anti cove in nineteen is not recommended for non hospitalized patients. The FDA has reiterated in a there are no FDA approved therapeutics or drugs to treat cure or prevent covert nineteen. Chloroquine has been used to treat malaria since the nineteen thirties. Hydroxy chloroquine came along a decade later and has fewer side effects the latter is sold in generic under the brand name plaque Quinnell for us against several diseases. The drugs can cause heart problems. If you really low brow blood pressure and muscle or nerve damage plan. Plaque windows label warns of possible damage to the Retina. Especially when used at higher doses. But beyond this this is not the same thing as you know. Fish tank cleaner as fish tank cleaner. That is not the same thing. Okay that is like trump saying that you know there have been some studies that show the beneficial medicinal effects of a glass of wine at dinner. You're like oh well that means alcohol is good for me. She go in your bathroom. You take a two bottles of ISOPROPYL rubbing alcohol and you proceed to down them or if you do that that one's on you that was not on trump because you're stupid cupid. The media tried to blame for this. It's unbelievable me truly. It's absolutely ridiculous. The amount the media are trying to to turn this into a trump leap show as opposed to. We're all in the midst of pandemic. Nobody knows anything which is really the story of this thing and that we are all sort of muddling through. It's pretty incredible. I don't know how he blamed from for that one. But meanwhile the media have been trying to foster debate between trump. Dr Anthony Fauci now at this time. If you're rooting for the country you may not like everything. Trump is saying from the podium. You may think that he exaggerates. You may think that he prevaricates. You may think the president trump says things that are not true that he straight out says things that are not true. So who do you want in the administration making sure that the response is handled as correctly as possible? Probably one of those people would be Dr Anthony. Fauci right when the person who you are actually counting on to keep on the straight and narrow yet every question coming out of the media right now directed Anthony Fauci as why don't you rip on trump's some more why don't you go rip on trump some more like please go rip on trump some more so the New York Times has an entire piece today dedicated to the proposition that president trump hates ouchi. Because if there's one thing that is guaranteed to ensure conflict it is media coverage according to The New York Times. The president has become increasingly concerned. Dr Anthony growing bolder correcting his falsehoods about the spread of Corona virus. Dr Faucher director of the Noaa an IRA the national allergy and infectious diseases since nineteen eighty-four has grown bolder in correcting the president's falsehoods and overly rosy statements about the spread of Corona virus in the past two weeks and he's become a hero to the president's critics because of it and now Mr Trump's patients has started to wear thin so as the patients of some White House advisers. Who Doctor Faustus taking shots? At the president. In some of his interviews with print reporters well offering extensive praise for trump and television interviews with conservative. Host trump knows that faculty who advised every president since Reagan is seen as credible with a large section of the public and with journalists and so given Dr More Leeway to contradict him. According to multiple advisors to the president went from knows he has more to gain than lose by keeping adviser. He has resisted impulses to fight back against apparent criticisms sometimes for months. Long interludes so far. The president appears to making the same calculation with faculty but the President has resisted portraying the viruses. The kind of a threat described by factor in the media are trying to play up. I mean this is ridiculous. Meter are trying to play up conflict between faculty and trump at a critical point where it's pretty important that trump be having open conversations with with Falconry by the way trump in his press. Conference has been unendingly an an unstintingly praiseworthy of Faucher. I mean talking extensively about how he thinks. Voucher is doing an excellent job trump yesterday in his press conference despite all the talk about how much he hates fallacy and he's losing patients with faculty and questions being asked about to out you about trump being ally and why don't you stand up to trump by the way if you ever get vouching interview dumbest question you can ask at this point is what's your relationship with trump like who cares who cares as long as trump is listening to him. That's all that matters. And why would you try to undermine that? Trust if you actually believe that foul. She has something to offer here by the way again. Trump is mouthing openly his his willingness to listen to both Ouchi and Deborah. Beck's the person who's heading out his his his efforts here we'll get president trump praising fallacy even as the media try to undermine that relationship in just one second and then we'll get the big controversy of the day which is trump suggesting that at some point. We're GONNA have to reopen the economy. Which again I. I have a hard time finding it. How this is in any way remotely controversial opens the economy on Friday. That's controversial but saying we're going to reconsider this thing every step of the way that's just called like being a president that's called being a politician considering public policy. We'll get to that in just one second I right now. We've got to avoid crowds in any way that we can but we also all have packages to send out. We're relying on the mail more than ever because really not supposed to be leaving your house. Well what better way to get? All those packages sent out and save money in the process then using stamps dot COM. Or you might be sending cards to parents or grandparents who might be sending packages. You might be receiving package all this stuff you can do using stamps. Dot Com anything. You can do it the post office you can do it. Stamps DOT COM print on postage postage on demand. 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Trial plus free postage ended digital scale no long term commitments. Just go to stamps. Dot Com. Click on the microphone at the top of the homepage type in Shapiro. That is stems. Dot Com. Enter Promo Code Shapiro. Okay so as I say. The media have been trying to foster some conflict between trump and algae but trump publicly. He's been saying he's listening to you. Here's trump yesterday is very important to me and I would. I will be listening to him. I'll be listening to Deborah who you just spoke to be listening to other experts. We have a lot of people that are very good at this and ultimately it's a balancing act but the expression we can do two things at one time and we've got an incredible country. We have to keep it that way and that includes not just economics that also includes life and death so again he is not going after voucher. He's actually you know He. He's actually praising FAO g they're also trump says that that couch. He hasn't agreed to them. So we get into the big issue of the day and that is how do we balance the the needs of the vast majority of people who are not going to die of grown a virus and the needs of the people who are going to suffer from chronic? How exactly do we balance the needs of the health system and the needs of our economy? These are not separate issues because the president trump was raked over the coals by large swath of media. Yesterday for saying he's not looking to months-long shutdown now again. I don't know how this is remotely controversial. Okay if the US economy were to shut for literally three or four months. That would not be something. The United States could recover from truly. Because right. Now we're pumping and nobody's buying the balance. The only way to do this would be to inflate the currency tremendously. You can only have government backing every bit commercial business commercial bonds for so long. The Fed pumping yesterday did not help the market. I'll tell you what did the market this morning was. The open conversation that is now happening about when this thing comes to an end. And that's a conversation that needs to be had now. I've been urging people at the White House I've been saying for a long time on the show that what we need here is a metric of when it is possible for people to go back to work that does not mean that the metric has hit on Friday. It does not mean. It's time to go back to work on Monday. What it does mean is that we have to start considering at which point that line of medical supplies rises above the flat and curve. Right that is what we are talking about. Because so far we've heard no metric from Andrew Cuomo in New York no metric from Gavin newsom metric from the federal government as to when we can expect at the resources that are necessary will be available such that when we all go back to work and there's a second wave of infections which is what you're starting to see in Asia right now there'll be an ventilators and beds on hand to take care of that so we can all go back to work. When are the tests going to be available when our tests going to be widespread available such that we can use seventy five thousand test today? One hundred thousand tests a day and we can all get back to work. We can start to use social distancing and masks in order to allow us to go back to our daily life and back to our jobs gradually as we move toward a vaccine. What do we have to do in order so that we can up the amounts of resources necessary so we can coordin- off vulnerable populations from the non vulnerable populations in contact trace all of the People? Who who have actually had corona virus. Which is exactly what's happening in South Korea so when president trump says. We're not looking at months here. That's good because if you were just watching the headlines. Right now if you're the market you're just watching the headlines. The market just the aggregate of of human knowledge about the economy. And you're watching the headlines and on the one hand you have Andrew Cuomo saying this thing could last nine months and on the other hand. Fao Chasing thing could last twelve weeks and you have mnuchin saying the last eight weeks and then you have president trump coming look. I'm not looking at months right. This is not going to ask for months. That people will start to breathe a sigh of relief. Because they think okay. My business cannot last another three months with no income. Business cannot last three months on the basis of small business loans provided by the federal government or grants provided by the federal government. Like how can my business remain open eventually? This thing has to open back up or otherwise? I'M NOT GONNA invest in my business. I'm just GONNA sit home. Don't take the unemployment insurance instead. It TURNS OUT THAT RUN BUSINESS. Very risky enterprise very stressful. You know it's easier is is if they are sending a check in the amount of how much money you were making before and you don't have to run the business then that is less stressful and easier. Especially if you don't know what's GonNa come out on the other end of all of that. There's a lot of uncertainty in the economy right now and from trying to provide some sort of time line here is actually necessary so yesterday trump says. I'm not looking at months and people went nuts. Here is trump yesterday. I'm not looking at months. I can tell you right now. We're going to be opening up our country and we're going to be watching certain areas and we're going to be practicing everything that Deborah's referring to right here. We're going to be watching this very closely. But can keep it closed for the next You know for years okay. This is going away. We're we'RE GONNA win the battle Okay and then trump said listen. We don't say no more driving cars like where we're GONNA have to have some sort of public policy discussion. About what level of risk is attendant on reopening? The economy people went nuts over. This could equate this to car accidents. How could he equate this to the flu? It's not an equation Analogy idiots okay. Every public policy decision comes with risks and comes with benefits. This does not mean. I've said this one thousand times during the show. This does not mean. Go out enjoy yourself. Spring Break Party time. No one is saying that and I am not saying for one that we should reopen the economy on Friday. Because I don't think that would be beneficial. Frankly I think that if the risks are still as great as they are right now thrown virus and we are still as low as low in terms of data as we are right now than the economy being reopened is actually not gonNA help the economy. Nobody's going to go back to restaurants at this point. Nobody's GONNA theme parks. Nobody is going to go back to work if they can afford to. Stay home at this point so just saying quote unquote. The economy is reopen. Tomorrow does not mean the economy is GonNa Zoom. Take off and everybody's GonNa Start going and spending tons of money. A lot of people are risk averse and they're going to stay home so the until this thing is actually tamped down to the extent that we feel some level of confidence that huge swaths of humanity are not going to die. The economy's not going to recover but when trump says we don't say no more driving cars this of course accurate and people who are going nuts over this being liberally dishonest about this. We have a very active flu season more active than most. It's looking like it's heading to fifty thousand or more deaths. Death not cases fifty thousand deaths Which is a lot. And you look at Automobile accidents which are far greater than any numbers. We're talking about. That doesn't mean we're going to tell everybody driving cars so we we have to do things to get our country open and again. All of that is true. And he's not saying. I'm going to reopen the economy on Friday. I think the media are trying to play this up specifically so that they can play up the clicks the conflict in him and Falconry the clicks about people ingesting fish tank cleaner the clip about trump is going to buck all the advisers and simply say. Go back to work on Monday. There's no evidence that that's what's going to happen on Friday. Okay but considering these things is not out of the realm of possibility even the most ardent shut it down people like Andrew Cuomo New York. Even he's admitting this is not this is not a science and it's not even an art. We're just kind of blindly groping around in the dark until we get further data which is to suggest that as we get further data. We're going to have to figure out how to get out of this. Here was Andrew Cuomo saying there was no art to what we did New York and maybe even taken the wrong measures in shutting down schools. There is an art form here which is overlaying a public health strategy and then economic strategy in other words what we did is we closed everything down as quickly as we could just shut all the doors. Border all the windows There was no art to what we did. There was no nuance is their public health strategy. That says look you can start to bring young people back to work. You can start to test and find out who had the virus and who resolved from the virus and they can start to go back to work and that's how we'll restart the economy with a smart public health strategy and he's saying the same thing as trump is he's just saying it more nuance for red. He sang at a certain point. We're going to have to reopen this thing up and that cannot be forever okay. And that means that we're going to have to talk tough risks. We're going to have to talk about what is the level of risk because there is no world where there are no more death from corona virus over the course of the rest of the year particularly in a second wave. That's going to happen in fall as most epidemiologists are predicting at this point so to pretend that we're not going to have these. Discussions is really really. Simple is really really ridiculous. Now that doesn't mean the discussion has to be heading the dumbest possible way. But you know I. I think everybody is looking to be outraged. Because that's sort of our usual mode. Okay the usual mode is looking for rationales. Be Out in the world of politics. This is how people make a buck is to be outraged all the time. Let's all just acknowledge groping blindly. There is no grand strategy at this point until there's more data we don't know what to do but these are conversations that must be ongoing as we add data to this matrix we can figure out. Maybe what is the best thing to do? And people are GonNA articulate this in in Brusque ways they're going to articulate these problems in awkward ways and that doesn't mean that they are saying that they're not looking for old people to die on the one hand or for the economy to be completely killed on the other. There's nobody has good answer here so last night. The Texas governor Dan Patrick was rigged over the goals because he was suggesting that at some point we're going to have to reopen the economy when that happens than older people are going to get more risk. Which by the way is one hundred percent true ramming that part is true he he phrased it in a very awkward way but it happens to be a hundred percent or my own parents said to me. Listen if this meant that we'd have to basically stay in the house for the next eighteen months so the economy could be revived. Then we would do it. The problem is right now that that won't work but in the near future. That may be something that has to be considering. That's what they're doing in. South Korea. Effectively speaking here is Texas. Lieutenant Governor. Dan Patrick has ripped up for this last night. No one reached out to me and said as a senior citizen. Are you willing to take a chance on your survival in exchange for keeping the America that all America loves for your children grandchildren? And if that's the exchange I'm all in and that doesn't make me noble or brave or anything like that. I just think there are lots of grandparents out there in this country like me. I have six grandchildren. That what we care about and what? We love more than anything. Those children okay. So what he's saying may not be relevant at this moment where he is saying. Okay Open right back up. He seems open right back up and I'll take the risk that that's not his risk to take me. There are a lot of elderly people in the country. He's not the only one but in the near future. These are conversations we are going to have to have and when I see headlines like this one from a guy like Matt. Lewis over at the daily beast. I mean this is ridiculous headline. I'm sorry the Party of life embraces trump's death colt we've skipped over any nuanced discussion economic considerations straight to the part where Republicans rationalized letting a million or so people die to fix the economy. Nobody is talking about letting a million people die to fix the economy. First of all we don't know a million people are GonNA die anyway. These are all estimates. We don't know the answers to the stuff because we don't have enough data. If you asked epidemiologist what level of certainty do you have? A million people are going to die in the United States. My guess is the most epidemiologists would suggest not one hundred percent level of certainty. Probably not even a seventy percent level of certainty. We are all guessing. Epidemiologists may have better models than we do and they may they may have better models is how the system gets overwhelmed and how many people die. But there's a level of certainty given the fact that all of this is fluid and we are taking measures on the ground as we speak. These are conversations that we are going to have to have and we're going to have to have them sooner rather than later because there had best plan and the reason again that the economy is jumping again. Today will not the economy. The walls of the stock market is jumping again. Today is because people are starting to say okay. At least we're having rational conversation because of the conversation is we shut this whole thing down. Ronan off the face of the earth. We were talking about not an economic depression. We're talking about an economic asteroid hitting the earth and wiping out all forms of economic life. Because you're talking twelve to eighteen months until there is a vaccine and again the data. That's coming in we. We just don't know how reliable any of this data is. So you know I'm saying the most annoying thing that it's possible to say in this circumstance. Which is I? Don't know the answer you don't know the answer either. Trump doesn't know the answer fouled. She doesn't know the answer. Nobody knows the answer. All we have is a formula with a bunch of variables and those variables get filled in. Then hopefully we can start figuring out what that equals sign. Looks like on the other side of ledger right. We don't know anything yet. So right now. This is all data gathering exercise. In the meantime we are going to have to have a discussion about when exactly that equals. Sign is is low enough in terms of death rates that we can all start to move back into working so reason. I bring this up is because there are a couple of different theories about how exactly we should go back to work. One comes courtesy of Scott. Gottlieb is the former FDA director for president trump. He's been a very critical voice. In terms of everything should shut down. We need enormous amounts of testing. And then there's Ezekiel Emanuel who is also suggesting lockdowns. We'll bring you their opinions. Right now. Ezekiel Manuals Obama. Guy and Gottlieb is sort of a trump guy but even that listen. I think this is a necessary conversation. I think it's a good conversation to have people aren't treating it as unacceptable. I don't think it's unethical. I think it's very unnecessary to ask. And that is. When do people go back to work? And what is the metric when people go back to work? We're GONNA get to that in just one second but if you haven't had a chance to see some of our new content all access live you should head over the daily wire dot com. Go check it out right now. Jeremy Boring. I kicked off last week. All the other hosted live streams over a daily wear dot com as well. We're going to continue all this week at five. Pm Pacific I'll excess live. It's pretty chill chill that I was wearing a short sleeve shirt yesterday. I KNOW UNTHINKABLE. But you could hang out with me. I was literally just playing classical music off of my off my cell phones that you could hear some of the pieces that I like and answering questions about. Apparently they're they're fan clubs devoted to how good looking I am. I mean I know the only member but apparently I find these things out during things like all access. Why the show is intended for all our all access members but during this pandemic shutdown. We are all going to hang out together. So as long as you're a member of any sort you get to access all access live. Please let us know what you think of it. I think people are enjoying it. We have like thousands and thousands and thousands of questions that were input yesterday. Join US on all access. Live over at daily wire. Come come hang out with us. I'm trying to who who's going to do. We know who's doing tonight. An enormous is doing it tonight. Okay so so. Knowles is doing an all access live tonight. I am back on. Friday is the plan. Barring some sort of exigent circumstances so you know stick around for all of that we've all sorts of which were we're all. GonNa hang out together last this thing out and as I as I said. I think that this is going to be weeks not months before we start to figure out a transition plan but stick with us while we do that over daily wire. You're listening to the largest fastest growing conservative podcast and radio show in the nation in for the suggestion that we may have to reopen the economy and weeks not months. But it's opened the conversation. I think that's actually a very very good thing by the way again. The markets think. That's a very good thing too because finally somebody is taking seriously that side of the of the concern right. The market was up eight percents in early trading like over sixteen hundred points in early trading and that is because people are starting to okay. Well this won't last forever. We know the date certain is when when we get off the bench and get back in the game but it is not going to last forever. Scott Gottlieb has an optimistic peace over the Wall Street Journal. He says soon the United States will be able to do seventy five thousand today that will make changes in strategy possible. He says I the bad news. America's corona virus epidemic is only beginning. The suffering will become more over the next two weeks. Hospitals in New York may soon be overwhelmed New Orleans Chicago San Francisco Seattle may not be far behind. It will soon be clear. Why cove in nineteen cannot be allowed to rage through the country? Untamed intense restrictions are necessary. But so is the path back to a more normal life. Here's what the priorities should be in the coming weeks. Containment is no longer realistic. In some areas of the United States in other places it may be possible as public health authorities learn more about infection rates in different parts of the country. Governments can tailor strategies to the facts on the ground. There's a trade off between mitigation strategies which target large populations like sheltering in place and interventions that try to isolate people who are infected or who might have been exposed population. Tactics are blunts blunt instruments. Necessary for isolating hotspots. New York Seattle. Other places may be able to rely more on individual interventions which do cost less disruption and economic damage. Every state should be taking steps such as encouraging social distancing preparing to expand hospital capacity some of into slow to respond but for any of this to work the United States needs widespread testing to know where to what extent the virus is spreading testing capacity. Scott Gottlieb has increased significantly in the past few weeks. Thanks to relentless efforts from public academic private labs such as quest and Labcorp a good reminder the nationalization of industries dumb idea. Generally speaking a new test developed by Steph can be deployed in a doctor's office. There are people who are talking about being able to get test results within a couple of hours or at home test being available to by the end of next week the US will have the capacity in place to screen more than seventy five thousand people a day. South Korea tested one in one hundred and sixty of its people and deployed technology to identify people who are infected and contents the. Us should do the same. Another step serological surveillance which means blood tests to detect. Antibodies developed to fight the novel Corona Virus. Which means that. If you've got those. Antibodies you're already immune. These antibodies confirm unity can reveal whether a person has been exposed if a sizeable portion of local community has some protection authorities can be more confidence in relying on less invasive measures one of the problems lack of testing and lack of serological contents is again. We don't know who's had it already. Immune and maybe literally hundreds of thousands of people in the United States more important is developing therapy to treat cove in nineteen or perhaps prevent people from contracting it. America's home to invest amick life signs industry. This is it's moment one strategy would be to infuse a convalescent plasma. Antibodies from the blood of patients who have recovered from cove in nineteen. This could help boost the immune response in those recently infected. Arturo Casa develop. Johns Hopkins outlines such an approach in these pages last month. Perhaps the most promising option is antibody drugs engineered by biotech companies. A strategy that was used with success against the BOA also. Regulators need to leverage master protocols which allow providers to test multiple promising therapies in the same large trials. He says with the right mix of controlling transmission expanding testing deploying promising drugs. American ingenuity can be back this pathogen. So that is the conversation that needs to start is okay. Let's do all the stuff. And how fast can we do? All this stuff Ezekiel Emanuel is saying. We have fourteen days to defeat corona virus. He says America's losing the war right now against cove in nineteen but we can win it with decisive in extraordinary actions right now by the way again. I admire the tenacity of people who say that. It is very very bad to discuss public health. Trade while quoting Ezekiel Emanuel. The obamacare adviser who wants suggested that we ought to minimize treatment for people over age eighty in order to save medical resources for people who are underage eighty. I'm not making that up. He wrote that for the Atlantic talking about why he wouldn't mind dying at eighty. Okay so now. The same people who had no problem having these discussions about trade offs with regard to nationalized healthcare are very unhappy to discuss any sort of whatsoever with regard to American economic pandemic response to Pandemics Ezekiel Emanuel says that the economy can't be fixed without solving the pandemic. Which as I mentioned before is true but if you just open the economy right now people aren't going to go back to work and and not socially distance while freaked out. He says the window to win. The war is about seven to fourteen days if the United States intervenes immediately on the scale China did our death toll could be under one hundred thousand. Within three to four months we might be able to begin. A return to more normal lives now again. That's that seems pretty. Steep estimate under one hundred thousand when we have less than six hundred deaths in the United States. Total at this point. But again that's how exponential growth works presumably Ezekiel Emanuel says affected states have have led the way by closing schools bars restaurants non essential businesses issuing shelter in place orders. This isn't uniform across the country but it needs to be at least for the moment and there needs to be social pressure for local governments two-wheeled to enforce physical distancing strictly but compassionately and mayors should close streets to vehicular traffic pedestrian spaces. So people can be at a safe distance also. The president must be honest with the American people that the CDC FDA other agencies did not rule out testing quickly enough that's true but we also need to ramp that stuff up very quickly. We have to conduct random samplings of people to determine the percentage of population with grow virus and the people percentage of people with the virus who die with those stats. We have better data. We need better equipment. Productions has Ezekiel Emanuel. We need hospitals to up their capacity. We need visitors to be banned at these hospitals. We need businesses to retain workers and keep up their facilities. They can rapidly return to operation when cove in one thousand nine is under control. So everybody's now having the right conversation okay. So this is the optimistic side of me. Everybody is now having the correct conversations and yes from having that conversation to it is not an unanswerable question. It is not a bad question to say. When does the economy reopened in fact? That is the exact question that is going to lead to the ramping up of resources. Necessary for the economy to reopen. If you care about the economy reopening then you really have no choice but to discuss. What are the costs of the economy reopening? How do we make the economy robust when it does reopen? How do we get? All the resources necessary. So the economy can reopen. Trump is right to think in these terms. He is correct to think in these terms. I am glad the president trump is a business person and he is not a nationalized. Everything locked down everything until further. Notice Guy Because that's not what the government should be doing. This is the greatest work stoppage in the history of America. It is not close it really is not and if we are not thinking already about what is the path to get out of this thing then we are not doing enough. That's not mean we open tomorrow. And despite the media again trying to foster divisions between trump and falconry and despite people suggesting let's just opened this like I have really not seen. I think there's a bit of Straw manning going on. I've not seen a ton of people saying reopen this thing up today like reopen it completely today. I think everybody understands that. We don't have enough data to do that. But the people on the other side who say that conversation is verboten. You can't even have that conversation. That's ridiculous Straw manning too because that come on come on of course. We have to have that conversation. We're talking about the greatest public policy either failure or success in the history of the world right now of course we have to have conversations about what metrics we can use in terms of. What risks are we willing to take as a society I feel like I'm beating a dead horse or but obviously is not a dead horse because everybody is too busy going nuts over president trump and his supposed gall in suggesting that we ought to take into consideration the economy in having these discussions? It's not a bad thing to ask that question. It is a very good thing to ask that question. The only bad thing would be if we get the wrong answer to a very very obvious question. Okay meanwhile the United States Senate continues to have this ridiculous debate over a Senate bill now. There are problems with Republican Senate. Bill those proposed by Mitch. Mcconnell the bipartisan bill that was pushed at the end of last week that Chuck Schumer declared bipartisan and then immediately reversed because apparently Nancy Pelosi at his balls in her handbag she. She showed up from vacation. Chuck Schumer is ready to sign this thing. She shows up and she's like I want to put your bullcrap and he's like okay. Okay sure we'll do random bullcrap now and so Pelosi just rejected the Republican bill out of hand even though it had been worked on by members of both parties and then Schumer had basically become her minion shutting down people from having discussions of this. Republican Bill Filibustering. The bill in. I believe three separate votes yesterday. And it's absurd because Nancy Pelosi's bill is just a pork barrel bag of garbage. It really is now listen. You can have a reasonable conversation about the oversight. Provisions on the loans to be provided by the Treasury Department honestly my preferences zero interest loans given to the banks that are already handing out those loans. I mean I think that the right now. The banks are the best. Our best position to determine which businesses are going to survive in which businesses are not on the other end of this and backing the loans that the banks are giving such. They don't call. Those imediately would be the best available move. I don't like politicians who have no expertise on the economy whatsoever. No expertise running businesses. I don't want them deciding how these how this money gets handed out neither. Do I really want the treasury secretary determining how the money gets sent out? Which is why I sort of. Support the idea of the government. Yes creating slush fund. That has handout. That is that is basically a backstop for the banks. Because they're the ones who have undertaken the risk and the risks. They undertake are likely to be smarter than the risks undertaken by either Treasury Secretary Mnuchin or the Morons in Congress. Who can't tie their shoes. But you know what would that said? That was not going to beat the Democrats. Were having the debate. The Democrats were having was a completely different debate. So the I mean th this truly is incredible. What were some of the things that Nancy Pelosi wanted in this new bill? What were some of those things share? Some of the new things that Nancy Pelosi wanted in the bill she wanted thirty three million two hundred thousand dollars for the National Geographic and Atmospheric Association. That's what she wanted. She wanted thirty three million dollars in this. Then we have to hold up American aid so that we can fund global warming research. She wanted one hundred million dollars for NASA in this bill and one hundred million dollars for construction and environmental compliance. What does this have to do with shoring up the economy for purposes of of Preventing Corona virus induced economic meltdown? She wants two hundred. Seventy eight million dollars for the I. R. S. Three Hundred Million Dollars in this bill for the IRS and Nancy Pelosi's version of this Bill Jordan. Thirty five million dollars for the JFK Performing Arts Center in this bill. She's GonNa shut down the American economy so that we can fund the JFK Performing Arts Center. Deeply vital stuff for people who are lacking ventilators right now and for Small Businesses. That are on the verge of shutting down and going bankrupt in every opening their doors. She wanted ninety million dollars for an HIV program in a corona virus. Bill she wanted thirty six million dollars for the National Center for Advancing Translational Sciences. What the Hell is the National Center for Advancing Translational Sciences? What joining seven million dollars for a specific D. C. Charter school like Galon Debt Howard University? She wants twenty three million dollars for them by the way. Howard University has an endowment of six hundred forty five million dollars. She wanted three hundred million dollars for the corporation for public broadcasting. We definitely knew. Make sure that big bird. Survives Corona virus here very very important stuff from Nancy Pelosi and five hundred million dollars for the Institute of Museum and Library Services by the way Kudos a twitter account called Oilfield Rando who has gone through all of this stuff. A million dollars for the sergeant at arms doorkeeper of the Senate very vital very vital stuff. Three hundred million dollars for migration and refugee assistance. Because we definitely need to worry about migration refugee assistance as we close every border we could possibly have and also we need to use more minority banks expansion of use of minority banks and minority credit unions as mandated and Pelosi's bill we need corporate boards to have diversity quotas if they are to receive loans sets exciting stuff. The government is going to force people onto your corporate board. If you take a loan that you have to take because the government shutdown your business if federal agencies use any banks owned by white people to have to explain themselves seriously the feds are going to buy three hundred million dollars worth of food and then redistributed. I can't imagine that they're going to be great at that. Also there's going to be another committee Rona Virus Accountability and Transparency Committee. Also we need Iraqi support for Wi fi hotspot and connected devices. I mean this is just. I'm sorry this is ridiculous. Also we need federal election oversight very important to have in a corona virus. Bill Okay so all of this led the Senate to absolutely explode last night. Ben Sasse senator from Nebraska says Nancy Pelosi is basically taking hostages here. I mean all she is doing here is holding up the business of the American people after it to directed government shutdown in order to get her policy priorities by the way. They're not hiding this right representative. Jim Clyburn from South Carolina. He he openly said this. He said that we can use this to push our priorities. Here's Ben Sasson Pelosi's taking hostages. We got families that are suffering. We got small businesses that are closing literally by the hour. We have doctors fighting to prevent their hospitals from being over surged and overwhelmed. And what speaker. Pelosi trying to do. She's trying to take hostages about her dream legislation all sorts of dream legislative provisions. That have nothing to do with this moment and say the American public can't get access to the public health piece of legislation or the economic relief pieces of legislation unless she gets hostages. That are entirely unrelated to this moment. We're better than that again. That of course is true. Senator John Kennedy from Louisiana. He said he was more blunt. Listen to my colleagues are just acting like a holes. I mean frankly. But they're they're just holding this thing up for political purposes and it is amazing the media coverage what the media will do to defend Democrats. Here is Senator Kennedy yesterday. Going on the Democrats are losing their jobs. They're losing their savings. They're losing the 401K. We Thank. We know how to get the economy back on. Its feet over the next sixty to ninety days until we can get control of the virus and some colleagues i. They're acting like a whole. I'm sorry I'm not saying they mean to but nonetheless. I mean obviously that's true. Senator Lindsey Graham who again is a fairly moderate senator. He says Democrats are obviously trying to prioritize things that do not involve the saving of the United States economy at this point. Look you drive a car through my living room wall. You then have to reimburse me for the cost of driving through my living room wall and that is the first priority. And I don't want to hear from you how I damaged your paint job. I don't want to hear from you. Your alternative priorities. Here's Linda Lindsey Graham going. I mean again. When you've pissed off Lindsey Graham and Susan Collins in it. It's hard to find a a more sort of wishy washy contingent than that on this In general in terms of fighting Democrats hand to hand. Here's Lindsey Graham saying Democrats have other other priorities. Not Saving the American people at this point. You see this as an opportunity to do things you could do. Otherwise Republicans see this as an opportunity to do things that have to be done now to save lives. I have never been more disgusted since Kevin tried to destroy a good man's life just to keep the seat open and close friends of mine in the House of publicly said. This is an opportunity to reshape. The country and our image is not going to happen. Susan Collins was shut down on the floor of the Senate yesterday right. She's moderate as it comes and Susan Collins Shutdown. She just wanted to say something and Schumer prevented her from saying anything about Republican Bill. That was being proposed. The Democratic leader objected to my even being able to speak this morning. Is that what we've come to? The Democratic leader objected to our Kevin Beaming at nine o'clock this morning so that we could begin working in earnest. How can that possibly be controversial? How can any of US wanted? See MILLIONS OF AMERICANS LOSE their paychecks their health insurance their contributions to their retirement plans. This led also to a great debate between Mitch. Mcconnell and Joe Manchin Joe Manchin. Of course the senator from West Virginia and mansion was saying well. Of course. We're going to filibuster this thing because then you might pass the bill and McConnell's like we're not even talking about a vote on the billion we're talking about a vote to hold a debate on the bill. Because they're filibustering here is Mitch McConnell. Getting very feisty with Joe Manchin. Things were very hot in the Senate. Yesterday there's still thirty more hours thirty hours. In what way I would ask my friend from West Virginia? Would your side be disadvantaged by that point waiting for us today John? You laid it out very clearly as she always does. We don't have time for this time for. Let me ask you a question on the third question. What way would the democratic minority because senator from West Virginia so again he got very feisty yesterday naturally the New York Times blames you guessed it the Republicans. They blamed Mitch. Mcconnell the editorial board of the New York Times they said Mitch. Mcconnell failed to do his job this weekend as the economy spiral downward McConnell. The Senate majority leader said he produced a bipartisan bailout. Bill authorizing an infusion of desperately needed aid instead. Mcconnell merged on Sunday evening with a bill that would provide a lot of help for corporate executives and shareholders and not nearly enough for American workers except the Chuck Schumer basically endorsed the damn thing on Saturday night. The fact of the matter is that right now is not the time to wait on this stuff right now. We need the help. We need the backstop of the economy and we need the open conversation about when the economy reopened the fact. Democrats are putting on the table a pork Laden three times as long bill that nobody has read lane with crap like money for the JFK Center for arts or whatever it demonstrates the seriousness of the people in Congress by the Federal Reserve has become basically the economic resort that everybody uses a first resort. Not a last resort. But bottom line is this. This is why you can't trust government to fix all your problems. And when government imposes the problems the question becomes. How fast can we get out of this alternative universe in which the government runs everything because this really blows and I understand that the answer is not today when the answer is not tomorrow the answer is probably not the end of this week or even the end of next week but better be faster rather than slower because you think I want these dolts running the economy and the national healthcare at response over the course of any Wong scale period of time? You have to have another thing coming. This is insanity alright. We've ACURA later today with two additional hours of content. Otherwise we'll see you here tomorrow for the latest updates. I'm Ben Shapiro. This is the Ben Shapiro. Show if you enjoyed this episode. Don't forget to subscribe. And if you want to help spread the word. Please give us a five star review and tell your friends to subscribe to were available on Apple podcasts. Spotify and wherever you listen to podcasts. Also be sure to check out the other daily wire podcasts including the Andrew Klavan show the Michael Knowles show. And the Matt Walsh Show. Thanks for listening. The Ben Shapiro show is produced by Colton US directed by Mike joyner executive producer. Jeremy Boring supervising producer. Mathis Glover and Robert Stirling Assistant Director Pavel wisneski technical producer. Austin Stevens. Play back in media operated by Nik Sheehan associate producer. Katie Swinnerton edited by Adam. Cy Ovens audio is mixed by Mike. Core Amino hair and makeup is by Nika Geneva. The Ben Shapiro. Show is a daily wire production hoppy right daily. Wire twenty. Twenty Matt Walsh Show. It's not just another show about about politics. I think there are enough of those already out. There we talk about culture because culture drives politics and it drives everything else so my main focus is our life family. Faith those are fundamental. And that's what this show is about. Hope you'll give it a listen.