20 Episode results for "Dr Phil"

Dr. Phil

Kickass News

51:44 min | 10 months ago

Dr. Phil

"This is kick ASS news. I'm Ben Mathis when you need energy on the AGO and don't have time to wait in line grab Espresso Monster. Espresso monster is a premium. Blend of Espresso and cream made with freshly brewed espresso. Coffee Hormone Mon.. Fri Milk and a unique energy blend complete with taurine and b-vitamins each can has three shots of Bresso and comes in Vanilla Espresso and Espresso and in cream flavors. I had one this morning before I came into the studio and let me tell you it gave me just the boost. I needed to get my day going. Plus it tastes so delicious. I'd drink gin anyway. So close your eyes take a sip and enjoy Espresso Munster today and now enjoy the podcast. Hi I'm Ben. Mathis welcome to kick ASS news before my guest today. Hit the airwaves. Daytime syndicated television was more freak show than talk show with names like Donahue Geraldo Maury and of course springer cynically exploiting dysfunctional families troubled teens teens and abused spouses for TV. Ratings offering little to no educational value and sending guests home no better off and sometimes worse off than they were before four but then in two thousand two Dr Phil McGraw Debut show that proved that a no nonsense therapist who offered actual empathy and commonsense solutions. Russian's could raise awareness about mental health problems and to get big ratings. In fact the Dr Phil Show which is now in its seventeenth season remains the a number one syndicated talk show in America and on today's podcast Phil McGraw joins me to talk about the two thousand plus episodes and countless guests. He's helped why. Why many of them just can't accept that they have a problem until they see it on TV and how every time Dr Phil thinks? He's seen it all. He encounters guests is to completely flabbergasted him he recalls how losing a football game in junior high school inspired him to go into psychology in the first place what it was like to go into practice practice with his father and why he eventually decided to switch from getting into the minds of his patients to getting into the minds of juries becoming one of the top trial consultants. That's in America. He explains how that put him into contact with Oprah Winfrey how he convinced her to move her entire. TV program to Amarillo. Texas for three months during the infamous mad cow beef trial and why he was initially hesitant when Oprah. I invited him to come on her show. He discusses his belief. That problems are complex. lex But solutions are often actually pretty simple but he also says. Don't be fooled by the magic of television and is easy going manner because hours of research search in peer review by America's top doctors go into every single episode of the Dr Phil Show he shares a little relationship advice after forty two years of marriage. How his wife Robyn is the Dr Phil to Dr Phil? Always keeping him in check. And why Robin still sits in the audience of every taping of his show. Show then. Dr Phil Discusses How his New podcast fill in. The blanks is a welcome chance to interview interesting people without the pressure of having to solve all their problems problems why he desperately wants to get. OJ Simpson on the show and why for his next project. He's ready to make a splash in the popular true crime genre. Plus plus why. He never volunteers advice to his friends. What he do if he was mediating the government shutdown negotiations and he weighs in on the prospect of an Oprah for President President Campaign in twenty? Twenty coming up with Doctor Phil McGraw in just a moment. Dr Phil McGraw is perhaps the most well known mental health professional in the world. He's the host of the number one. Daytime talk show Dr Phil which is now in its seventeenth season. In addition to television. Dr Phil is also the author author of Nine Number One New York Times bestsellers and now he has a new podcast called. Fill in the blanks. Dr Phil McGraw. Thanks for sitting down with me. Well thanks thanks for having me. I feel pretty important after hearing all that will you should. And that's just to start with. You just walked over from stage. Twenty nine. Where you're shooting shooting the Dr Phil Show and I was watching closed circuit here? I guess I don't want to give away too much. But you were dealing with a guest who was kind of a handful and thought he was a smooth operator with the women and maybe wasn't again I don't want to give away too much. But he said some things that were pretty shocking that anyone would do to another person and you were just incredulous Seles but I think after how many thousand episodes you've done at this point. Does anything really surprise you anymore are say of heard it all and seen it all in the minute are say that. Say That I'll walk out there and somebody brings up. Oh man didn't see that coming. You know they they say there's nothing new under the Sun something about the human experience people finding new ways to run their lives off in the dash is standing. But you know when you look at things from a distance things can look really clear but when you're in the trenches it's really hard for people to see it sometimes times I've had so many people tell me we have on our set. We have fifty seven feet by eight feet of laser screens is it is the most is the highest definition highest resolution screens. You can have in so many people tell me that when they come in and see see their lives because we do background packages and bio packages when they see their lives onscreen on those big screens. They they say that sometimes that alone is is such a huge wakeup call. They go warily. I'd never really thought of it until I saw that How our lives are actually unfolding in playing out? Now that I see it it looks very different to me. Yeah what is it they say it's on TV than believe it. Now your publicist and I were just sitting here talking about high school football in Texas. We're talking about my less than stellar career in high school football indexes and talked about yours. I understand that your whole interest in psychology all began with. I want to say either a high school or College football game that you lost it was actually a we call the junior high. Then they call it middle school now and I'm moved around. I wasn't a military Brat. But you would think because I I went to first second third grade in Tulsa fourth fifth and sixth in Denver. Seven eight nine in Oklahoma City. Ten eleven twelve in Kansas City And so I've moved all around and the the the game that he too. I was playing in Oklahoma City in one of these pop warner whatever they call them in we had a game cancel because of rain and the Salvation Army had team and they called our coach and said I know game rained out on Saturday. Could we come Monday. And have a scrimmage game with you in in our coach said sure and we we were really bad ass so we thought we had flashy uniforms and everything matched and the the salvation. An army team pulls up into three pickups out there and they come back and look like the Grapes of Wrath. I'm dating myself when I say grapes. I know what you mean but I mean these kids the kid that lined up across from me head on blue jeans rolled up to the knees for football pants. loafers loafers for football shoes on a button up shirt for Football Jersey and had the number four in masking tape on his shirt. And you know. We're we're snickering in the HUDDLESTON. And why didn't put it on a magic marker. That's GONNA come off. Well you know. That's how dumb we are. He put it on in masking tape. Because that that was his shirt was a shirt that was his shirt he had to wear that to school. Day those kids lined up across from us. And I'm I'm telling you that kid hit me so hard. It still hurts when it rains I they. They beat us like they were clapping for a barn dance it it had to be fifty two nothing. I remember walking off of that field and say into my dad. What the hell happened and he said? Yeah well you just got you ask handed to you on a platter and I thought well I'm looking for something a little more indepth than that and he said they just wanted it then those kids and they they they don't ever get to play on a field with grass. They don't ever get to play with with referees. They I mean this was a big thing to them and they just wanted it more than you guys did it. I thought in that moment he have those kids can do so much with so little. How much should I be able to do with so much more and I thought right then? I was envious those kids. I mean they had here they are salvation army team some living in group homes but I was envious of what they had inside and I wanted to know what it was is and I started studying motivation. I started studying. You know why people do what they do. And don't do what they don't do from that day forward when I was twelve years old and I've been really focused on it maybe to an obsessive level since then because I've really been focused on now. Did studying psychology make you a better better football player. Not even almost doesn't increase your foot speed jump higher run faster but I you know I played in junior high school and college and never very well but I did get a scholarship to University of Tulsa And I wouldn't have gone to college probably without it so I can't complain too much. Yeah now I don't want to embarrass you hear but I heard that your team was on the losing losing end of one of the most lopsided games in college football history will you. Let's go back to the part about. I don't WanNa embarrass you. Hear all right we got beat one hundred hundred to six by Houston and I didn't play in that game out. I was on the team But that was back in nineteen in sixty eight so people can google it. And you'll see Houston cougars one hundred Tulsa six but the Hong Kong flu was kind of like the bad flu strains today and it had gone through our team and most of us were in the infirmary. You sick and bill. Yeoman don't WanNa pick on anybody but bill Yeoman was the Houston coach and he said look. Don't cancel the game. It will cost the school too much much come down. We know you're sick. We'll just go through the motions not GonNa pick on you not going to run the score up. We had a guy taken snaps APPs at quarterback that hadn't played the position since seventh grade. And I think twenty three players went down. That's all that we're well enough to go down there. And they ran the score of one hundred percents so house. Yeah they're sportsmanship for you you graduated with your hd in psychology. And as I understand when you went into practice with your dad right for wars practice like well you know my dad and I didn't get along frankly a He was an alcoholic and a pretty bad alcoholic. Frankly and I think as a result Haven't had a drink and fifty years. Wow I don't do. It never have tried to get drunk once in highschool couldn't do it. I would get a hangover while I was drinking and not after awhile. Seriously I'd be I'd be in the middle of it feel like somebody hit me in the head with an act but he was a bad alcoholic and we did not get along because of that. I didn't like him when he was drinking which was almost always. He's in So that was a contentious relationship to say the least and after that you co founded a trial consulting firm called Courtroom Sciences Inc.. Right what did you do with courtroom sciences. Well you know when I was going through school. You know in psychology. You declare our program. It's you go into go into clinical or counseling or school or research or educational Clinical is the area that most people think of as a as a therapist dealing with neurosis and psychosis and you know doing seeing seeing patients in doing therapy and that was the program I was admitted to and while I was there It was an APA approved program. They launched a new program Behavioral Medicine Program and so I decided rather than having a minor area that I would complete two cores. The clinical core and behavioral medicine core So it's to you. PhD Cores only one degree but to Ph d courses and my focus within it was brain and central nervous system. And you know when when somebody gets injured car wreck on the job whatever they break an arm or hip or something fifty thousand dollars dollars insurance settles it goes away. Somebody gets a brain or spinal cord injury you now. Talking millions of dollars life plans they hire experts income and testify. Because that was my area of specialization. I wound up testifying a lot for both playing. If independent defendant sides of the docket and people decided that I I did so fairly effectively so I did it a lot and then they started asking me you know. Can you help us cross a plan cross examination for your counterpart on the other side is. They're going to have an expert. Can you study their report and help us cross examine them and then it was like well our corporate representative is really not a good communicator hater. We wanted to testify like you do. Could you kind of help prepare him. And I've got a very busy practice. You Go to court. Wheels of the justice turn slow plan to be gone for a day. Then you're gone for four. You got all these patients you see you got to wear. I had to make a choice between one or the other and I decided I really love the trial work and we decided just. I'm GonNa do that in a a big way in so courtroom. Sciences was launched and it was kind of toys R. US for lawyers. I mean we had a full size replica of a federal courtroom. Wow the only difference being the jury box health fifty people instead of six or twelve But Judge's bench elevated the whole well of the court. We had six deliberation rooms all on closed circuit television. So we could have six deliberations going on at one time fed to a control room much like the one. We have here all going to tape. So we could study patterns of deliberation and what was the common themes. What made a difference not make a difference So we did trial strategy. We had a graphics department that sometimes sometimes would run twenty four hours a day for you know four hundred days in a row. Sometimes I mean through the holidays. We had private jets flying Lyon graphics out to different trial sites around the country. Ration- major undertaking. We did trials all over. The country had clients all over the world so a lot. A lot of it was focused on figuring out the psychology of the jurors and how whatever strategy would be perceived or what ordered to present things how to present things we really help lawyers and and clients tell the truth effectively trial. You may have a thousand facts but there's a subset of those fax wchs presented in a proper way are going to be most effective with that jury. And it's our job to find out what that subset of of the total university facts are and what jury is going to look favourably on those and so we would help put together the jury composition. We did mock trials. Many many mock trials before the actual trial took place and then we went to trial an helped in jury selection. We would often have a mirror jury in the courtroom that match the actual jury we would debrief are mirror jury every night give feedback to the lawyers and wow elaborate very elaborate it was. It was a major undertaking. Yeah yeah now I gotta beyond when I look at the Oj. Trial and things like that. I find myself feeling pretty cynical about juries and plus my wife is a lawyer and she tells me all of the the things that you're telling me right now you know if it was my but that was in a crack and I was bout to go before a trial. I don't know if I would want jury trial from what you've seen. Would you want a jury trial. Would you rather take your chances with a judge. I would one hundred percent base it on what the cause of action was but my my general attitude is juries. Tend to get it right Yeah I think the collective IQ of the jury is at least twelve hundred That's interesting because that's not the perception where I'm coming from. I think from where a lot of people coming from. I'll tell you why people have that attitude. They have the misperception that they go back there and deliberate whether the person is guilty or innocent And that is not how it goes really they go back there there and they may have forty pages of jury instructions and then they may get a question. Do you find that the following six elements of action number. One were Matt and if you do then proceed to question question two if not jump to question seven it's not the OJ. Jury pretty much much. Got It right a really based on what they were asked and what they were told. They didn't hear everything that was heard in the media and they were not asked questions that got to guilt or innocence they asked did. The prosecution prove A.. A B C and d based on what was presented in court and the prosecution did not. They spent the first three or four days talking about whether he was a good husband or not. Let me tell you if you've got somebody dead to rights on murder are are you gonNA lead with. How good of a husband is? I don't think so I mean that. Just the jury answered the questions that were put to who them. Based on the evidence they were allowed to see. That was not a well. Tried case had it been he would have been convicted But they they had to get one juror wonder to have out and he walks. Yeah I mean I guess those are pretty good odds then if you only have to convince one person somewhere along the way I read that you recently said that you would like to have OJ Simpson on your podcast. He's you'd think he'd get the truth out of him he's never been We've never been cross examined I would like to do that. I spent a lot of my career. You're studying and developing techniques and deception detection and there's a difference between spotting ally a- and getting to the truth spotting though is one thing but then once you know somebody's lying actually getting to what is is the truth is a whole different skill. Set Yeah and I would I would like to talk with him about that night and man. I'd be interested to do that. And I think it would be very telling. We're GONNA take a quick break and then we'll be back with more with Doctor Phil McGraw when we come back in just a minute. Did you know that forty. Three percent of college graduates twits are underemployed working jobs. That don't even require a college degree. Imagine if one of the most significant investments of your life your college degree only only worked half the time. A refund is the least you'd expect with courses in software engineering data science and you ax. Ui Design flat. Iron School all stands behind it students with tuition money back guarantee bladder and offers graduates a career services program with career coaches and ongoing learning students who follow every step of the plan and don't get a qualifying tech job. Offer within six months of graduating are eligible for a full tuition refund. See the complete fleet details at Flatiron. SCHOOL DOT com slash terms with graduates at hundreds of leading tech companies. The Flat Iron School Program is working. Full and part art programs are available online and at flatiron school campuses around the world joined the school. That's reinventing education. Starting with student outcomes learn more at flatiron school dot com slash kick ass again. That's flat iron school dot com slash kick ass and now now back to the show. It was in your capacity as a trial consultant. I think that you I met Oprah wasn't something with the ranchers union or something like that with suing her over something she said about beef. It was a mad. It was called the mad cow case and this was a time. I'm when the Beef supply in the United Kingdom was called into question because contaminated cattle were being processed and fed back to the heard that food then with the contamination was crossing the blood brain barrier and contaminating the cattle. With this disease. There was some question as to whether or not that was happening in the United States. And this expert on her show suggested it was she said well. I'm not eating another burger again. And supposedly the beef commodities on Chicago Chicago Board of trade went limit. Down that day which the cattle growers said that equaled billions of dollars. They lost yeah so they sued her in Amarillo Texas saying that she had impugned the beef supply and they sued her for billions of dollars. And Yeah we went to trial in federal court in Amarillo. Well I mean it is her option not to eat beef if she so chooses her option to say she isn't going. Yeah but what kind of advice did you give her along. The way originally are playing. Was You know truth is defense to slander in the way this works is they said she had slandered. The beef supply because it was a commodity that was perishable and we had had the proof that what she said and what the expert had said was true that they were doing that into be supply was at risk and truth is a defense to slander. And we had the experts to prove that mid-trial made the strategic decision to change course of action and not use truth as a defense to slander in fact overnight. We got our experts outside subpoena. Arrange and got them out of Amarillo and did not put them on what we did instead was defend her right to say it not that it. It was true but her right to express her opinion. And that's why at the end of the trial. She came out on the courthouse steps. Raised her fist up and said free speech each rocks. That was her own statement. Did you celebrate with a steak dinner. Where'd you go from there Though we did have a show that night all right there in Amarillo. Move the show to Amarillo for the real trial. You Know Kenny. She asked me Chicago one day. What can I do to help? And I said well you could moved. Showdown royal turn around picked up the phone and said find me a spot Amarillo. Were moving the show. I mean she was a game or I'll tell you. Yeah Oprah can do that I I guess were you surprised when she invited you on her show. After all that I was she producer called and said Hey Overwatch Watch you to come on the show. We're doing a show about this and so and I I actually said No. I don't think so. Oh and I'm not going to be here anyway going scuba diving and they said well okay. They hung up about fifteen minutes later. She called back. Said you know. Say No to Oprah. She was laughing. Say No over what are you doing. I said I WANNA do it. I'm going scuba diving boys and she said well how about we wait till until you get back and I said Okay and the old saying goes the rest is history. I mean here I am I guess. Twenty two two years later still do television. I had no intention of doing television at the time that you created the Dr Phil Show you. Were kind of a little bit of a trailblazer because up till then syndicated talk shows similar to yours that brought people as guests. who were you know? Having some kind of problems or behavioral issues were mostly exploitative Donahue's springer. Yeah you know we. I graduated from Oprah University and so you you learned to do it in a very different way when I started to do Oprah even the first time I said look I don't know whether this USA work or not. And she said well everybody on my staff says it won't work that you can't create meaningful psychological moments in this period of time and I've told them you can Dr Phil can and most people can't but he can just watch and I said look. I'm just GonNa do what I do. And if you turned into television fine fine if you can't I was busy when you call I didn't make much difference to me And I really planned to go do the show. I figured it would be a one one time thing. And we'd have a great time and you know she and I were friends would hell. We live together at a bed and breakfast in Amarillo for like three months or something so and I'd work with for two and a half years leading up to trial. We had become very good friends. She's very good friends with my wife and Try saw yellow go up. We're GONNA have a good time and he's not my dad once and move on but I said look. I'm just going to do what I do if you can turn into. TV great can't bind. Just kind of do what I do in they work away to do it and turn it into television and you have had certain people in the psychiatric community. The WHO've said well you just given out easy answers and simplifying things too much. Are you perhaps a victim of your success in that you do come in and you make it look effortless. And there's a certain assumption that you just stroll out on stage and wing it which is not really the case at all you said early on. She said your biggest problem is going to be that you make it look really easy off and the fact is it's not easy a even my own mother she. She's passed away now but she called me a one time we were talking and she said Phil. Let me ask you something. What do you do the other twenty three hours of the day mother? What do you mean? Ag said well. I watch you from four to five. What do you do the other twenty? She thought I pulled up at four. o'clock yeah did this show till five avenue. I went home. She had no idea that I get two hundred and fifty page notebook for every show and spend hours and hours preparing pairing for this. She she had no idea. I mean people. I don't know what people think sometimes because I I kind of have A. I don't know easy way of you've of delivering things belies the fact that there's been a while to work. Go into this. And we have an advisory board here right and it's made up of the top minds in psychology psychiatry medicine sociology. Even the allergy nursing got the the family division from Harvard Medical School and the Children's Psych Division at Yale and Stanford University Dr Zimbardo and a lot a lot of these men and women are the editors of the peer reviewed journals. So okay. They're checking things. Yeah so I might send something a show show about OCD. And they'll go. Actually there's been a real breakthrough article that hasn't been published yet. Let me send it to you so the advice. I'm giving mm might not even be published yet but it's been peer reviewed and cleared go into the Journal of abnormal psychology. Or whatever. So I've got really really great resources. He'll be sure that I'm giving advice. I've got this. I've got this knack for getting these Gigs where somebody does all the work and I get hold of credit got a great staff. We've got research department here. People do a lot of work then I walk out there and get credit for all your wife has been to every single taping of the show ever since day one everyone. I'm a newlywed. Do you have any kind of marriage advice or go to tips that you usually give. Yes dear. Okay we've been married forty two years. Yeah and we've been together forty forty five and until we came out here. She never went to work with me. She never was involved in what we did what I did Or me and what she did and that was not the plan when we came out here but we were doing some tests shows into in the beginning and we did the first show and kind of like it is over and I'm like Should I stand here or leave a lot. Yeah well I should leave so I walked down the runway and I'm going to turn right and her tears right there. It's so natural just walked by my wife like I don't know or it just because I'm on TV so as I walked by down and took her hand said let's go and she walked off with me and everybody in the Control Wpro Room said Oh my God. We love that you should do that. Every time and Robin said fine and she does so much more. Then just sit in the audience. Because she's I think one of the foremost ambassadors in the fight against domestic violence. He has a foundation that works on that she just went was me and testified. On Capitol Hill about Domestic Violence Jason opioid abuse and by young mothers and their children. She's raised over one hundred million dollars in money and services for for the court appointed special advocates program. She's very very active in many of these programs and she's a feminine side for me La. Sometimes I'll be preparing a show and she'll say you better not say that. Say you better say this. Because she's she's my feminine side so the helps you. Tell me Dr Phil has a Dr Phil or Mrs Fill Better believe it. Well since we brought up Capitol Hill and marriage counseling. I have to ask what would you do with the government shutdown. We're in that room with trump Pelosi and Schumer. Do you think that you can help them. Make some headway or knock their heads together. You know at this point I I really wonder WHO's agenda is being run Everybody involved in this is being. I'm paid to run the business of this country and not any of them are doing it and I think they're all jockeying for position. I think they're all jockeying to protect their jobs. And who's doing our who's doing what we're paying them to do. I'm I'm apolitical a-political. I don't take political sides or positions but I'm kind of like a pox on both houses. I mean come on. Yeah guys listless. Let's let's we got what eight hundred thousand workers not getting paid. People have families and children children and an and mortgages to pay and food to put on the table I just think that's just not a very good strategy. How about in terms of addressing the political divide on on the macro level of getting people to the table and being able to have productive conversations without yelling or other rising or? I'm very disappointed that. Ah We've always been able to disagree. Have a healthy debate. -An and then say. Hey Ben lescoe lunch you can disagree. I don't like your idea you don't like mine we can talk about it Respect each other's right to have their opinion. And then okay. We're talking about that this. Go grab a hamburger. That's not how it is anymore. I mean I think some of this is approaching McCarthyism awesome. It's I see it in Hollywood. I see it a in lots of ways on both sides of the aisle. I am very concerned you you know we. We preach all this inclusion and and freedom of speech. But we sure don't seem to be practicing. Well I WANNA bring it back to your new podcast. Fill in the blanks. Which I want to point out is P. H. I l.? Right right it must be especially nice for you to be able to sit down with someone and have a conversation without having the pressure of trying to solve all the problems really is because on on Dr Phil necessarily I've got forty two minutes and eighteen seconds of content time and I've got someone one in front of me that presents a problem. Nobody comes here to tell me how well things are going. I've never had a guest and say I just wanted to stop by LEX. You know have great things are going in my life and so by design On task with that issue that problem every time and in the podcast. I don't have to do that. I'm not stamping out disease and suffering. Instead I'm getting to talk to interesting listing people about interesting things and it's really been funny. I only have the second one up now. I did Shaquille. O'Neal I thin DAX. Shepard is just today but I've done about thirty five of them voting to jump in with both feet. I've got about thirty five of them into Kim and it's been interesting. I've done a lot of friends like shack. And Charles Barkley in Steve Harvey and Ron Wyden David Foster and people that I know but I still learn some things from them that I didn't know when we sat down and really got to talking. Because it's it's funny when we're together we're always doing something we're playing golf or we're going somewhere or whatever but to just sit down down on purpose and talk we've learned things about each other and it's really been a lot of fun. It's a little bit different than your show. You're not dishing out tough love and hard truths have you ever caught yourself sitting down with shack or someone and maybe slipping back into that mode and call them out on something or giving them is. Is it hard to shut that down. No you know it's interesting a socially like if if we were out to dinner three or four couples and somebody's got a problem with their kid or a friend of theirs. Get a divorce or something I can tell you. I'm I am the last one to offer advice really. I absolutely the last one offer advice. I mean in fact it will wind up where maybe everybody said it's up to the altar and look at me because I'm like me and my wife will say don't look at him because everybody Kinda wears a social mask and they'll say well. I'm sure sure they'll work it out but don't ask me if you don't want to know 'cause I mean I'm a guy that sits there and say well that's his second wife and in her third husband. They got seventy nine percent chance of divorce no matter what happens the nest before you add in a seventeen year age difference so the chance of. They're making this just just about zero. So y'all quit talking about it. Let's go go. She's those don't ask him because he's going to tell you the truth. I don't volunteer vice a When I sit down with my friends we we stayed pretty loose and had a good time? I sit down with Steve Harvey today and he and I are really good friends and One time you know what idiot gave both of us are my same time. We had a pretty good time. I'll have to say now. Who are some of the other guests that you have scheduled to come fill in the blanks? Well you know. This isn't a celebrity podcast. I've mentioned some of these because when I started out I just started talking to some of my friends. 'cause I think they're interesting people are. They wouldn't be my friends. I guess but I'm also talking to experts and ordinary people. In extraordinary circumstances like one of the most interesting ones. I've done And he's a very good good friend of mine. But it's Dr Pat Johnson. WHO's the head of neurosurgery at Cedars Sinai Hospital? There's been tremendous breakthroughs news in neuro surgery. He's also a sideline doctor for the NFL. So what goes on inside that tent. What is the concussion protocol? What goes on inside that tent? What determines where they go back in the game or where they don't know back into game? What terms where they go in the locker room? Or just it's the tint. What would he say if he was to make the decision to let his kid play football or not knowing what he knows ooh about? Cte In rain damage and all of those sort of things so we had what I think is fascinating conversation. Yeah and he certainly not a celebrity in the celebrity right. But he's very distinguished in His field I talked to a woman who is a self defense insect spurt for children to dealing with predators. And that sort of thing and I'm going to be my own guests As well because because this year we have a lot of people that go get Dr Phil Show content Dr Phil all content on the Internet. I think this year will pass over two billion views for the year here on Youtube of people going getting information but maybe somebody got served divorce papers. So they'll go look for serve shows that I've done on divorce and but I've had so many people tell me that while that's helpful to them that they would really like to talk. Talk to me you know. They look at the video but they really wish in that crisis they'd give anything they could talk and what I'm GonNa do. Who is I'm going to post up some some podcast? Where if you did talk to me on that day? Here's exactly exactly what I would tell you. If you serve divorce papers this morning interesting here the ten things. I would tell you to do before dark today. If you went in your kid's room and found on drugs in his sock drawer here the seven things. You need to do right now today before the sun sets. I mean if ah if you did get to talk to me. Let me tell you what I would tell you. Well you you might not know my exact situation now. There are some things I want to tell you. Independent of your exact situation like number one. They're not his friends drugs. I don't Damn what he says. Those are his drugs there in his sock drawer out. You believe that committed and given that. Here's what you need to do. Second and then you know we just go from there. These are things that I would tell them and what. I've told people I'm going to do that. They're like win so I think that's going to be interesting to people as well. We're GONNA talk to some couples about this being couple also. We can do a lot of different things that I think have been done. Yeah it's cool. Sounds like you're giving yourself a lot of room to kind of go where you WanNa go and do different things different formats. That's great right and I also heard that you're going to do a true crime. podcast which seems perfect for you with your jury. Selection experience in psychology spent a Lotta time in the legal system. And and I said I did clinical and behavioral medicine When I graduated in you do your uh internship program? I did mine it to be a Medical Center in Waco Texas and then I did a year postdoctoral fellowship Polish ship in forensic psychology. And you know when you do psychology and the law. It covers everything from working with the cord on custody situations fitness apparent. Or whatever all the way through making determinations of Sanity Hannity in murder cases. Is this person fit to be tried. was this an irresistible impulse or an impulse not resisted and that distinction is just a few different words but the difference between an irresistible irresistible impulse in the impulse resisted can mean the difference between the death penalty or going home home very short period of time. And so I've I've I've done forensic evaluations in a lot of very high stakes criminal situations and we've done a lot of crime shows here at at Dr Phil. We've had murder cases reopened. We've had we've had cases we've done where based on what we've done people have been arrested and charged and I've worked with law enforcement extensively for years and years of strong law enforcement advocate so so I've come across some intriguing crime stories and I'm I'm going to not just describe them. which a lot of people do you would do very well? I'm a big fan of some of the crime. Shows that are out there but rather than describe the crime in and what happened. I'm going to analyze what happened from a psychological and forensic standpoint because I think people want to know who does this kind of. Yeah you know. We just had Chris Watts that killed his wife and two children family and I later there have been eighty one eighty one family in islanders in the last twenty five thirty years and people say you know Dr Phil who does that it causing people say that a lot. You know who does that when they say that to me. It's not rhetorical. They really WANNA know. Yeah and I'm I'm GonNa tell them when we do a crime story I'm GONNA go inside the mind of the criminal. I'm GonNa talk about the anatomy of this crime from the criminal standpoint and let them see what's there because there are predators among us and they need to know. Oh how they think how they act and how spot. I think. It's going to be interesting. Well before we wrap up. I just gotTa ask you. Do you have any inkling of Oprah might run for president and would you vote for her. Do you think she's going to run well. Of course the safe answer is that you would have to ask her uh-huh and the second safe answers never say never but I'll tell you I don't think so but I'll say in the same breath She is much more qualified than probably most people. Think OPRAH OPRAH is people. Ask me a lot. The A is is oprah like she seems is she is an nicest is she appears and answers no. She's not as Nice as she seems. She's a lot nicer. The camera doesn't really do her justice. She is one of the most genuine warm caring people that I've ever met. You would love her if she was a gas station attendant or a senator or cleaning up the room after we left or or television personality it wouldn't matter she's got what I call a health engendering personality. You Talk to her. You feel better about yourself than you did before you talk to her. And what people don't know is how intelligent and wise. This woman is is her sense of The geopolitical landscape and economics and just the hydraulics of government and all. She is a very well versed individual much more than a lot of people in office today in many different levels. So if she decided to run it would not be a Lark It would not be like wow. That's that's out field. People would find out when they started asking her questions that she didn't cram for the interview. yeah more more about what's going on in this world and then she ever talks about you have any interest in being running-mate absolutely absolutely none I would Bahasa go for that. Be Happy to carry her briefcase or happy to support her in any way but a million politics though mix art man. Well once again folks can listen to subscribe to the podcast. Fill in the blanks. Now that's P. H. I l. just a reminder on apple podcast Google play stitcher or or wherever you like to listen and you can of course watch the Dr Phil Show Weekdays on your local station Dr Phil McGraw. Thanks for talking with me. Thanks for having me. I really enjoyed. Thanks thanks once more Dr Phil McGraw for coming on the PODCAST. Don't forget to subscribe and listen to who is new. podcast fill in the blanks on apple podcasts. Stitcher or spotify for more information and upcoming guests visit D. R. Fill in the BLANKS DOT com. Of course the Dr Phil Show airs on TV Every Week Day. And you can visit Dr Phil Dot Com for your local listings and follow Phil McGuire on twitter at at Dr Phil Flat. Iron School is reinventing education starting with student outcomes with courses and software where engineering data science and US UI design clad. Iron School stands behind it students with tuition money back guarantee learn more at flat learn school dot com slash. Kick Ass. That's flatiron school dot com slash. Kick ass if you haven't already be sure to subscribe to kick ass S. News on Itunes and leave us a review. You can follow us on facebook or on twitter at at kick-ass News Pod and as always I welcome your comments. It's questions and ideas at comments kick ASS news DOT COM. I'm Ben Mathis and thanks for listening to kick ASS news kick ass. News is a trademark of Mathis Entertainment Inc..

Dr Phil football Texas Amarillo United States OJ Simpson Ben Mathis Oprah Winfrey Oprah Iron School flatiron school Robin LEX Donahue Geraldo Maury Tulsa America Google murder Espresso Munster Dr Phil Dot
Analysis of Murder By Dr. Phil: The Killer Thorn of Gypsy Rose - Available April 25th

Analysis of Murder by Dr. Phil

02:53 min | 1 year ago

Analysis of Murder By Dr. Phil: The Killer Thorn of Gypsy Rose - Available April 25th

"You after spending forty five years in the field of psychology. I've learned one thing. And that is that there are predators. Among us. And I've learned that these evil predators move in darkness. They move in the shadows. The not I'm telling you about is, no exception because on this night, a monster stealthily stalking. The streets of really innocent. Sleepy town. This is a sick demented person. And he's on a quest for blood. If you're fascinated with crime stories, don't miss my upcoming new podcast series called analysis of murder by Dr Phil which is launching April twenty fifth. I'll take you inside the minds of some of the world's most the Torius killers analyzing them from both psychological and behavioral perspective. You can subscribe to this new podcast for free on the apple podcast app. The season premiere series is called the killer. Thorn of gypsy rose. I knew that I was being abused. But I didn't know exactly what kind of abuse. It was. I just knew that. I wasn't allowed to do a live things. And my mother was the reason she would force me to be in a wheelchair. And fortunately already doctor's appointments that I didn't need alternately. I never wanted her dead. I just wanted that life to stop that life to be dead. Burden. She was stabbed to death. Did you want her to suffer? I'm sure by now, you've hit subscribe. If you have not I hope that you will because I have more true crime podcast coming your way, murder mysteries, and psychological thrillers that I don't intend to just report on but to break down analyze and give you insight and understanding about when people look at me and say, Dr Phil who does that kind of thing. That question to me is not rhetorical. They really wanna know who does that kind of thing. How do we spot those kind of people? They are predators among us. And I'm going to be talking about those people so watch for more of my true crime podcast. You can download them on apple podcast. Dr Phil thanks for listening.

Dr Phil apple murder stalking Thorn forty five years twenty fifth
Episode 511 - Dr. Phil Is The REALEST Fake Doctor

Ross Patterson Revolution!

1:13:39 hr | 6 months ago

Episode 511 - Dr. Phil Is The REALEST Fake Doctor

"It side gentlemen who come to the rocks by KGO SPENT DOT com the past. Oh Daddy Oh oh Daddy James. I feel good today. You will stronger all so happy for you guys. Thank you thank you for my bravery make Ya God man. We're out here you are. You're at work. Yes for them. Your rights not says nothing. All the people stay home for you. You know you know. Don't lift the quarantine. I'll stay here for you know. Don't go back to work. Quit your jobs. Forget about your life be here for you and then as soon as you open up youtube or spotify or I tunes all. You're going to hear his again Daddy Yay Gum in for you Daddy. You feel blessed James. Thank God looking for a word that I saw on instagram today. The S. Today. I do feel good though waking up to a new album. That was a banger. Today was now mazing. I am loving it so two albums came out last night. Midnights and you know Daddy. Oh daddy loves new. Music can't get enough. New Music needed my my ear holes especially for writing always looking for new. She had two albums drop last night. The baby look fuck in worldwide stunt if you will and then Did a track with post malone on his new album now he put out solo album and it's saw X. Real Bad. It's as if he put the same beat on forty three times and just to the exact same rep on every song terrible and this. This was a guy by the way who I don't know if you remember blown up from that the his one hit and then Smacked a lady at a concert. Just hold off and fucking slapped her boob later Yeah but it's the BOOB way. What was his song that was hit bring Bang Bang Bang Bang Bang Bang Bugaboo debating on the baby? Oh with him saying his name pretty much one hundred times in Rome and Big Tick Tock and now it will be gone jerked but it was. It was a massive song and again once. You have a big song like that. It's it's one of those things where other artists just grab you. Shit we gotta get him on this and this and this so sounds weeks. You're like Oh shit. You saw actually in person Madison Square Garden. Oh Yea Post Malone and people are nuts. I put out a solo album and people are absolutely destroying him online for being worthless. I'm him slapping that lady across the face. Though at the concert I think right. Yeah and he did that why she grabbed him. Grabbed his arm and He's hold off and slapped her. Okay real hard across the face. So she's to grab on debt dig you know She grabbed his arm though. Yeah which you know. She was probably China latched down that that talent eagle talons to grab onto that day with a free hand. There was like nine hundred cameras around. So you got popped for that and it became a thing Blah Blah Blah the apologized. Everything else should apologize for that album. Because it's fucking sucks now. I hate to bring it back to blue blaze which we are teasing but when cameras around you got to be on your best young. When they aren't do we gotta do. Keep your family in line. But when the cameras are around you really have to be aware of them Carry on then. Fiona apple drops an album. It's been a long time. I've always been a fan apple. And she's just delightfully weird. She did an icon series with the key. Sweating Tarintino talented ridiculously talented. She did an icon series with Quentin Tarantino remember that show kind of classes what it was called on. Sundance channel owner of those channels. Were thing back in the day. Yeah I do I do. I forget which one it was. Bre was open. It was it was definitely like I knew. Greg was the sponsor and that's that's all that I remember but either way I used to watch every single one of those and they used to pair up like two huge celebrities that have chatted it in the past and then they Kinda Wanna learn more about each other's lives hers with Quentin Tarantino and it was in Austin. Actually okay the shot in Austin and it was. It was great. Of course she was weird and awesome. And you're just like all right sweet and so again. I'd always liked her music this. I shouldn't put on five years. I don't know if she would again. Yeah that'd be real with you. Yeah Incredible Front to back one of those albums you can just play and just leave it on wherever you're at and I was doing some research on this morning. 'cause it was like Shit this. This is really good where you can just play it front to back over and over and over again so if anyone watches the affair on showtime she does the opening credits and it's very much like that style which is a little bit of a departure. But amazing so pitchfork. Who Look they're called pitchfork for reason because they fucking come after every goddamn owners is only given to ten star album reviews in the last twenty years. It was Connie as my beautiful dark twisted fantasy and then This Fiona Apple Apple Album and I kind of agree. I'm on I think listen number two of it right now. I'M GONNA jamming out tonight when I'm writing big Big Fan and when I was doing research this morning. She recorded the entire thing in her house and was like banging on using. Her walls is like drums and like Pacific mixed in like dogs barking. Yeah but as vocal background for chorus super while she plays piano and all that other shift but manage she talented stoked about that insane really stoked about that and very nostalgic so like right now. There's a big boom of like nostalgic word for eating foods that are like banana. Bread is the biggest like searched. Really Food Right now a recipe. I don't know why but it feels very like we wanna do like comforting nostalgic things Fiona apple coming out with an awesome album during the court and could not be anything more nostalgic for me like I'm in high school I'm in the beauty of it is. There's nothing out so everybody can appreciate it in her. And where it's just like our great and man is a good big big fan shapes and then you know then you get a boob lay popping up like we were teasing earlier. We are cock teasing. A little bit of Bob. Boublil beater beat his wife live on instagram. You know so we didn't tell Jamie. Keep this up although we should Yeah Jamie finds just type in Michael Blue Boob way elbowing his wife specifically elbowing. It's going to be a red curtain background this for for a couple of weeks now of why celebrities should probably just stop going live. Yeah so they decided to go to live. They're starting to go live from their house for their fans. Yeah and I think it was like video one. Second One This happened I mean it's it was they didn't it appears that they didn't know they were live or he didn't. I don't think he did but I didn't know she was in very special. And you're right elbowed her and I was like. Oh and then we ought to. He caught him. Coach twirled kick or not You're not gross. Yeah okay so it's like the elbows are living high jump jump Sims and says Ola and then he elbows her and looks at her. It's like serious. And then looks to the camera realizes that he elbowed his wife in front of their million fans or whoever was on the live and then jokingly sort of did okay you have it. Let's go pop it. Up There. We go playing standstill. A man who was just like you have to see the whole thing so that bring sir. I love her. I know you saw me elbow her. Bikes put play that one more time. Jamie deserves probably with three days in a row boob way elbowing his wife. Let's see let's let's talk about this one. Aw and marine that Amiga Year to look at fear but the the the cringes part of it is him jokingly doing it again jokingly doing it again pulling her in an arm around the neck and yeah when she looks at him boy so what happened is they did another video later and then she had to release a statement because there was so much boob way backlash backlash for Boob Way. Yeah and and just said were in a loving relationship you can watch us on. Facebook live to they have their own facebook live TV show. Then yeah no. I think they just go live on facebook. That must've been with. Oh Gotcha Gotcha Gotcha and the statement says you know you can see our love for each other. And that's exactly what every woman in a beaten relation sure and then she actually put out a video defending him but he is standing right next door with his arm around her wall. She's talking like kind of off to the side but like his arm is wrapped around. So it's like you don't even really see him but you you know he's there. She knows he's there. I mean more importantly go to control your right thing and be smart. So are we board in the quarantine and we're kind of looking looking for goop. What I would have had the same reaction on quarantine if would have gotten on. I don't know if this would have blown up the way that it did. If we weren't in quarantine in a very slow news cycle right so you know at the very best. He's a controlling at. The worst is abusive. I always look blaze one of those guys where it seems like. He's doing the wrong things at the wrong time. Have you ever seen him eat corn? You've ever seen boublil eating corn instead of thanks Jamie Google Michael Boo Blais eating corn and it will terrorize reminder or picture picture. She's going to Google. Michael boob lay eating corn. And pull that up and it'll shock your mind. It's it's as if he's taken down that Black Guy's Dick in in the means you know. Okay I mean it's it's the wrong way to eat corn. Yeah very very like from the tip down Luna meeting corn right there okay. I can't creepy stuffing his mouth. A huge cock. What does he have a hat on backwards? He's just jamming a fucking huge corn on the COB and his mouth like cock. Can't see that feel like living in my own. World. There we go yeah. You don't eat corn like that right. You don't know just taking Dick what he's doing so boublil eating corn thing for a while now he's elbowing his wife. Eating corn has been a thing for a while. Everybody knows about boobs eating corn I James. I can go down a laundry list of things that the folks at home need to pull up if you're bored during the quarantine you can you now Jamie. You can't pull this up because it's graphic but for you for those of you were home. We were bored. I think I've reached the end of the Internet's if you haven't seen blading corn boom you're welcome and then the other one is John Mayer pissing in the woods. Now he's got a fucking hammer on him and he's holding his Dick with two full hands like he's picking up a bass or a salmon that he just got out of the water out of a stream where you're just like Jesus Christ Mantha John Mayer pissing and he's got like this one of those Austin hats on you know the the Austin Texas hats. That's Kinda you surround. Hats all shits where I put it as I put it in all harambee video but I had to blur out his Dick for Dick's out for her on a Yemen he's got A. It's a right. Yeah Gentlemen Jars Penis. Yeah widely known. Oh you knew that. Yeah I did not so. What happened was when I was making that video. Ours is Google and celebrities with their dicks out. And that one kept popping up banging me in the face over and over again Shit but I could see andy. Cohen suck on Acoustic now. Yeah Yeah I could see John. Mary Pride you could also understand why he has the energy that he does big Dick Energy. You know John Maher's like very confident in his bullshit. He is and it's weird but he was not a lot of reason for him to be if you so she'll expressions when he's singing very shallow. It's very terry shovel. Yeah and he sings Remember Blair's friend on facts of life Blair's cousin High Blair. That's the look on the look on his face. He's got the permanent Blair's cousin from fax life on their. You know what I'm talking about. Yeah pull up. Blair's life now. No they all. They've mean this a million times of the two of them side by side so there's nothing really do but the point But she jamie's even laughing right now. it's one of those things where she is actually retarded. John Mayer when he's on stage plays like he's retarded it's weird. It's strange like he's stealing her moves on that and I feel bad for her. That's hurt. That was her thing on that. Show not his. That's John Mayer for you. Though the confidence he has he's like fuck it man. I'll just take a retarded persons face cash. You know trying to pass that off as my own no John. Their disability is not your fucking culture You know the BOOB LA and And Jon Erik. Same camp to me where it's like. There's a lot of confidence for like. They're pretty good. You know it now if they would have dropped like amazing album after amazing Alan lightman like prince a prince a Dave Matthews alike. You know these were like yeah. Of course your beloved you know an Eddie better you know what I mean at Waldo. Then you go like yeah for sure and then you could get away with maybe elbow on your wife in public on on facebook. Live where she's like well on the one hand we're getting great music on the other hand. Maybe beats his wife at all overlook that but it's because it's Boo Blade. That people are like fuck that? Guy. What is he doing here hovers. Yeah is he doing Sinatra covers? And he's horse. Rand is a very nice family man. That's his brand. So you could John Mayer Get Away. Get Away with elbowing a. Gal that he's with Shor Shor. It's on brand yeah I look. Alan Jackson was a family brand down yonder on. He's a fucking knock out his wife Hardcore where it was like. And we're talking like Kim. Bo sliced backyard type. Shit streets Miami like brutal down. I don't actually think Boob way beats his wife I just think it's It's a good reminder. I think we needed to remind BOOB. Lay a little bit of like. Hey Yeah like I know. You're just starting to go live but like bro Boob la. Here's a here's how it works. Boublil we go live every day and you will get backlash if you don't do something right. That's just like how it goes no matter what it is. You're opening yourself up. You're not in concert or in an interview on today. Show like this is live. So you're GONNA have to watch much yourself. Yeah and here's the thing if if you are going to control your wife and or beat her one you can't do it. Live on Cameron if you are if you WANNA really rope her in its middle belt loop back at the jeans and that's a Nice Yank that the public can't see you know is your arms behind her and that really keeper in line. You know what I'm saying you can just do old school. Isolating her from her friends and family giving her a a really crippling sense of insecurity verbal. All you know putting up circus mirrors in your bedroom and then single use does not leave marks man. No no not at all. Yeah Boublil what we're saying. You can't all your wife. Geocache. Just can't beat her on camera. Okay boob way you can eat corn like that if you wanna eat corn like it's like it's your fucking brothers. Dick. It is summer camp. That's fine manner. Don't do it in public behind closed doors. You know what I'm saying now. John Mayer on the other hand pissing like that. I was very forward of like Oh cool. Yeah you WanNa take a picture of me pissing hold on. Let me put my other hand underneath my Dick And then you can take that pick. You know what? I'm saying. Sure good for him. Good for him but BOOB You know better else. Everybody's coming after days Dr Phil. Oh what Dr Good Dr Phil Do. He's a real doctor right now. I think he's just changed his first name to Dr Can you knew that way? And then you can get away with that. I want that I also want to be the one who goes back and gives a commencement speech at my college and they give me an honorary doctorate after that. I make everyone call me. Dr Sure where I just interrupt everyone where it says. I'm sorry hates. It's Dr Patterson. Right right just called me. Ross. It is Dr Patterson. I'm a fucking doctor for a reason. You know what I'm saying like. Watch your tone. I'm a doctor GAM. So what is? He's taken a lot of heat. So Mr Phil Daily. Yeah so papa. Trump gets on last night and says hey man we're gonNA. We'RE GONNA Reopen America here. We're doing three phases and we'll go through that a little bit later on and he says you know look man. I don't know why were really concerned with the the corona virus when you know there's more people that are dying a year to car accidents drowning and They said he was wildly exaggerating. Fucking thing is numbers He says the economy is crashing around us. And they're doing that because people are dying of the corona virus. I get that but look the fact of the matter is we have people dying. Forty five thousand people year die from automobile accidents. Four hundred eighty thousand a year from cigarettes three hundred and sixty thousand a year from swimming pools. But we don't shut down the country for that and he's saying that you know because we're doing this the fallout is GonNa last for years. That people's lives are being destroyed. He's getting crushed for that why people say he's not a real doctor and then he's insensitive and all this other shit and I say Dr I believe in Dr Phil is actually a psychologist. Yes okay. So he's a real doctor and that's the the bulk of what he was saying. Yesterday this was like one comment kind of taken out of a longer interview. But he said this is invisible. I can't show you an X ray of depression. I can't show you an X ray of the anxiety but I he's absolutely right and we're starting to see it now. With protests and like people getting to their breaking point that like if you the factual matter is the longer this locked down goes the more vulnerable people can get and there's a tipping point and as you see your money going away your business going away. You're like everything that's also something that we need to talk about. And we can't just be like well. People are dying so everybody do like sitting your house like you know. Depression anxiety moons. Your Business Lose your money. Whatever because don't die and don't dare say anything about it because there are people dying so Dr Phil is just sort of saying things right. Now that I think you're gonNA see a lot more now now because we are at breaking point there's protests everywhere of people that are like we're done with this. There's protests down the street from our House Street from our house but we talked to a raw an ex or ex Raleigh police officer yesterday About the protests. There where people are starting to get to the point where that thing of like. Oh don't say anything because people are dying is done where yes both things are true. Both things are true. People are dying and people are getting to a breaking point both mentally and fiscally and like their whole lives. Were getting to the point. Where if we go any longer than what they're saying. The thirtieth of fifteen things can get really really irreparably bad and again. I can say that because I am not a politician. I'M NOT ON TV. I'm not whatever like we're just trying to be entertaining by talking to each other about how we're feeling right now so I think I think this is. I think this is it and I think more and more. You're going to start to see this okay. Yes we've assessed that the this many people are dying. This many people are dying every day. This is these are the people that are risk. We almost have it pinpointed. Right to where like down to age You know respiratory problems any underlying thing that you may have and we're tests are getting faster and we're getting that a little bit under control and now we can start to sort of address. What is happening now? Major for Dr Phil needs to stop. He's a real doctor. Do you really hate him? Do you like. Do you find these comments like appalling. Don't Okay Dr Phil Dr Phil Right. But he's never I'm never known him to be like sue way off base ever know especially when it comes to mental health because that's his expertise. He's not a doctor on like Cova. He's not that kind Hussein and his quotes. I live by like If you're tired get more sleep. Yeah Yeah you're only lonely is you're not there were you. Yeah Yeah Oh shit. Yeah Yeah if you lived here you'd be Home Steph. My Dad is say you wouldn't worry so much about what people thought about you if you knew. How seldom did I think the people fill dude ain't people that are outraged with him to Are these kind of strength. Stragglers these holders on these people that clearly are not going through what he's talking about better outraged. The only way that you're absolutely outraged at those comments about even thinking for one second that someone might be in a depression because of this fucking quarantine the fact that we can't even fuck and say that my God oh at least not dead And the fact that we can't say that if you asked my mom whether she would wanna stay inside or see my her child's business and everything that she's worked for completely disintegrate. My mom would say all stay home. My mom is at the age. She's at risk for these. Are The people sixty five seventy eighty right there if you ask them all of them. Hey can you stay home so that your kids can get back to work? I bet they would say yes. Oh yeah yeah and I don't know that's not like that's a very like I don't know I'm sure there's other INS and outs to it. That's just how I feel. Yeah of course and look for for Dr Phil and Rita a few quotes from from heavily. People have lived by love. He's he's a beloved figure. No dog ever paid on a moving car. We'll quote from Dr Phil here. You go and with that means right. Yeah my daddy used to tell me boy. Don't ever miss a good chance to shut up. I don't know what that means but I love it Favorite one no matter health. Let you make a pancake. It's got two sides that's it. That's Dr Phil. So if you're not taking everything he says verbatim in your life well fucking doing it right. You know. I want to say one more thing. Good about the good doctoral is it about you. Know it's about these core in times. It feels a little bit at this point. Did you guys know that you know when you're in an airplane and they're still it's still at the gate you know like sometimes they'll keep you there for hours we've been in this situation? You can just walk out the door this loop. Who's live do you know that? Even though they tell you stay here. We're just fixing a mechanical thing. Stay here we need to get paperwork for the mechanical thing that we just and then you're three hours right there you can just walk off. Yeah do all the time. And that's what it kind of feels like right now. I just leave. Yeah I looked. It does not affect my life at all. And one of my my my. My best friends talked to him today. He's thinking about coming out and he's just like it's affected your life you fucking idiot sort of the affected your life you stupid asses. Jim in the restaurant about it. You know what I'm saying. Wait no but I've lived. My life doesn't affect your life though is not the same as saying like. I'm not really freaking out about I've just I. I'll rephrase your honor. I have continued to live my life. Allow it yeah. I've continued to live life. The exact same way anything. Tough the plane essentially every day. This was shit time I did that was with you and Dan and I was freaked out freaked out because I'm a rule follower right. I'm not you guys. Were like you got new tickets on a different plane down on the plane. We were on was stuck on the runway. We got new new tickets on on the phone on the plane. And there's Great Radha here pack up your Shit and they were like you guys can't leave and I was like nothing's walk right off the fucking plane and even everyone around was like you. Can't they're gonNA leave if Bowler leave? It's like what we know we can't come back on but they will even tell you that you can't do that and you're like no no no and then once you get up to the front they just move out of the West move on about your life going from one talk show host to another year talking about your favorite. I did not know any of these stories until you brought them up of what generous. We touched on this briefly on drinking. Bros a week ago but I was like I was still kind of skeptical. That Ellen Degeneres was a complete nightmare. Oh Yeah because on TV you know she seems like a fun. Pixie-ish little fucking bedazzled. She's just waiting to save. Some kid just went viral from singing into Walmart. Or Baka mask on a mom's face because it sit sir I guess her ratings but yeah so you were the one who outed her and I was like all right cool. I didn't really hear getting messages or hear anything about it after that so it was like. Maybe that's one of Jesse's lies again and she needs another fucking elbow. You know right to the ribcage Ola Ola giving the Oh boo Blais. Right to the RIB cage. You know to give the old boob lay until to get back on the house side. Don't boo blame me. Body did a little rap on the beak back to the kitchen. You let the man speak. I I wear the pants and their family. Okay you looking at bank account When did the first twelve hundred coming get your name on mine gain? Hey I've got a couple of slices of Bacon in that in that. Pan You do James. We didn't stimulus so I am able to leave soon. We didn't do a couple more. You think you are. I got you better belt loop means. We didn't but you know we look. I don't use it. Went to someone else got see it should go to someone else. And that's Godspeed. Let's be honest about it. But Allen's generous is not getting any stimulus money to her staff not just stimulus who Anything no no nothing for her staff. The they've they've spoken outs. They've gotten very brave and called variety And said the entire crew of Ellen is furious over poor communication regarding pay nonunion workers during the shutdown And they're saying That no one has reached out to them at all Alan the producers anyone from the show consisting of thirty employees and they've seen they've seen no written communication about the status of the work hours pay increase about their mental and physical health. Like that one I'll let slide And the the people that are speaking on condition of anonymity cats a big word and I just said anonymity yeah Higher ups and production would occasionally answer phone calls but revealed little and They finally found out that they were told to brace for a sixty percent reduction in pay even as the show continues to air. And that's the important part so Bida took a call last night from a friend in La. Who's working on some Sports Shit? And he goes. Hey Do you have any inside? Info on if the NFL's coming back specifically. And I said yes. It is They might do it without fans. I personally think the virus will die down and fans will be able to come but the NFL has massive deal with the networks therefore that money will go to them in the teams pay the players on Shit. Same with Ellen in the situation Ellen has a massive deal she the the latest deal she pension fifty million dollars a year five zero million dollars a year to host the Ellen show. There's no way her crew of thirty fucking people has to take a sixty percent pay-cut she's on everyday. She's not left now grants. She's doing it from home with a skeleton crew of four people. But guess what they're still twenty-six other people who aren't getting paid are going to get a sixty percent reduction in salary this is probably GonNa go on according to the president which will get after. We'll get to after the sponsors for another thirty days or so you're ellen degeneres who's making fifty million a year you can pay your fucking crew. Who works there every Goddamn Day or you can speak out then? No she could show yes. Because it's partly. Herbert is partly warner brothers. Right like their money doesn't come out of Allen's pocket normally But she could definitely if she wasn't part of this decision which I absolutely believe that she was She could speak out and be like. Hey Warner brothers. Whatever she's also to them here's the thing. She's also producer on the show. Look she has the say she could shutdown fucking barbecues outside. You know what the budget is for your show and a and look. This is simple at this point. Like I've done fucking movies and TV shows. You have a budget. There's above the line costume below the line. Above the line is talent talent on the show is Ellen right? It's fifty million dollars you. Everybody knows what she's making per year on that and then per show so they'll they'll d fifty million for however many show she does throughout the year and that's the number she gets paid per week and it's usually a weekly salary you can easily say. Hey guys for the next thirty days go into the network and say hey guys. Why don't you cut my salary in half this week? And then pay my. It's the same cruise on these stages for years and years and years. Typically you could walk in and easily. Get that done. The fact that they had to call variety and say on a condition of anonymity anonymity anonymity nope the N. for Non Asli. Yeah do the end. I not the end enemy and an amenity and fix Anyways choose Joey Are just calling anonymous. Like this is is fucking sad. Like there's no. There's no reason for that. It's the same fucking people every day. You're not swapping out crews on the Ellen show once you have a good crew. They stay forever. I guess not hers though and you try not to fuck them over. That's the thing she fucks them. Over constantly isn't a crew that is old and loyal and they all hater. Yeah they're not happy. They're not happy. The other stories. You've heard because you told a couple of the other day I again. I kind of brushed it off and I did not hear anything like usually I get a message about something afterwards where it's just like. Oh Hey yeah so late or anything on that one Karen Kill Gareth. Who is one of the my favorite murders my favorite murder girls but before that she was a writer in every you know she was she did do on writer's room circuit around Hollywood. Which as you know you do not get paid well. It's basically like minimum wage but anyways so there was A writer the writer. Strike or something Karen Karen could go was. She was her head writer for five years until the writers strike. Karen wouldn't cross the picket line. She was fired. I remember that writers strike never spoke to her again. A lesson awhile. That writers strike lasted a while. And that's you know that's like fuck you Allegedly hostelry and mistreated mistreatment of writers proved to be a theme In all of these stories one user claimed that her friend who had written for Ellen for two years was never acknowledged by her. She of famously will like if you're not that famous As far as like a guest if you're bringing if she's bringing on like a makeup artist or something like this. You can't be in any green rooms. You can't use like any of the bathrooms that are in that area. If y you're just not like it's Jonas brothers. They get all this literally nothing. She will not say hi to you. She will not come up to you and an intern that they all are saying kind of like overworked and rude comes to get you. Brings you up there. She doesn't even talk to you 'til Fuckin- cameras go Even though it seems like Ellen watches youtube videos and just find some people that she likes. It's not that she will you steph people to take their on air so another user who had waited on the sixty two year old comedian. I told you that one where she wrote a letter to the owner about the girl having chipped nail Polish Garner fired. Yeah but she had waited on her a lot for like two years they would come in all the time and it was like a waitress that was like Russia. It was a Vegan restaurant in I think by the studio Los Angeles Vegan eatery. Oh real food daily okay. It's not anything I'm sure. It's like a struggling place anyway. She got her fired Alan She needs a boo Blais. She threw a piece of so another terrible restaurant. Experience with the retro. The restaurant experience ones to me are the worst. Okay like you know you're in public. These are the moments when you're dealing with normal people right and we famously from the show if you aren't Jonas brother or a J. Lo you are treated by her like a piece of Shit And that's one thing right where you could be like. Oh maybe she's super busy and like she only has time to say one word to me when its on air. I don't know right like you can kind of get away with that but in these restaurant So she threw a plate of salmon in waiters face. Because it wasn't what she ordered. I see can you imagine doing that ever in your life no I? You're rude but I'm a nice guy. I know you've gotten a lot better. I would've I would've taken that salmon and banged it off my tongue. And just said this is undercooked. Just Look Martinovic No. I'm always nice to people in restaurants because look you can. I've been on the other side of that where you can just spit in their food. Your whole digging balls and their milk. You can do anything you want. One of our first early episodes. I told that Jaylo story with the with the manager when I was bartending at that one that one party and they were like I would go to open. The wine was GONNA put it in there with like this. This wine specifically brought for Jaylo okay. This is bucket. J.lo's lied I brought it for Megan's a fifteen hundred dollar bottle on one thousand five hundred dollars or the wine very cool. I opened it. I'd never opened a fucking expensive bottle of wine. Like that open it and just went to port she was. You've got a brain gotTA breathe for like twenty minutes. If that's okay. I'll be right back. I was like all right read. She went around the corner. I just turned burn. It boom took a shot right to the dome and I was like fuck me. Pretty Goddamn good wine. Yeah didn't wait. Fifteen or twenty minutes but it was my my little way of getting back at it. This is obviously this. Pre Co vid. Who knows where I was? You know what I'm saying the night before. So with this with waiters. Every fuck with with waiters. You'RE GONNA get spit they're gonNa Lick Lick a bun maybe liquor fry. I've done horrific things to people. I'm sure you have to. Yeah with the worst thing you did too. I don't I didn't do anything to anybody. Never food or anything no no. I don't think so. I mean it depends on if I mean that was completely up to them. If it was like a a steak that wasn't cooked well. I don't think I've been in any situation really that that I've done some move back behind the curtain dudes or disgusting man. Yeah remember there was a guy? It was a Guy Papa. John's the Doha's shipped uses in Highschool Joe Ships to the Papa John's establishments it's got a nipple on it and it's perfectly shaped like a tit. Just beautiful fake tits so when you pull out the tray and it comes off the truck it just looks like twelve perfect amazing fake tits right. Oh all right cool. I witnessed this guy like somebody called in bitched about something. That has some difficult order. Dude I worked with which is hammering. Dong- right on that's just slap slapping it on that dough You could hear that. Slap that cold dough that she's Kinda yeah and I was like man I I'll go him. Did you did that to like twelve different pizzas. Not just this one and he was like well. Guess that Guy fucked it up for everyone else. Didn't he was just like hey did get yours yours. Then that's why I never reacts in restaurants where I'm just like all right cool and then all all even you know me. I'll try to superseded Jabes superseded so I'm aware like salmon is a perfect example. I'm aware that well done. Salmon is not a thing. The cooks get offended. Everyone gets offended so I tell the waitress every single time. Hey on its own. Osama I'm sue. I'm a super white trash human being. Can you tell them that? I want this. Well he's self deprecating even a well done steak stuff like this really helps but it helps a little bit. I think it does so. At least they go back to the. We'll be like hated like the guy had a sense of humor about it. He wants you to to make a wealthy more and more. That's becoming dot starting to be not a thing because it's like you like your steak how you like it like your chef. You make food so that people like it right. You know sort of sort of most chefs though. And you know this like we've dealt with a couple here where you're just like. They view themselves in the dishes. They make is. If they're on your bobby flay like there is a yet exactly but there is a renaissance happening of like where it's like more comfort food places more like just want you guys to be happy places like really good food but also the experience is becoming more Laid back like if you're stuffy and data that's becoming you know how it used to be cool for celebrities to be astles and now it's like the nicer the cool you are. That's what's happening in the food industry. A little bit starting to the last one. I got was Burger Omega Gordon. Ramsey's fucking eighty dollar burger joint I told afterward the Burger. It's all the wages I was like. Can I have it like medium? Well and she was like no. We just bring the burgers and I was like. Oh well how how is it cooked? And she was like well. You know how they cook it and I was like Rod. We'RE GONNA go ahead and get that medium. Well so wanNA tell them but they were fully prepared to like no. You can't have a well. That's Gordon Ramsay. He still old school so forum. Yeah Fuck Him. One last story this Culinary Quinta Song Sh-. It'll just kind of summit up right which so Josh Leveque wrote to. This comedian members the comedian that was soliciting these stories to the Food Bank. And only if they were real corroborated did he get the money but anyway the Ellen so on Ellen Degeneres so to the audience. What she's talking about was this guy asked for True Ellen degeneres stories if you mean if he could verify them if they were true he would donate two dollars to his L- The local food bank in Los Angeles. I think and he ended up donating six hundred dollars. So she's a piece of Shit anyways. This guy that used to work as a production assistant for the Ellen show during a time when a russell actor Russell brand was set to appear as a guest and brand came in. He's famously very affable. And he likes to talk to everybody in this just like his thing so he went into The employee break area to chat with the crew. And kind of hang out and be like you know. Just talk to normal people. If that's what he likes to do so ellen came in and got mad at him. Apparently Ellen told Russell brand that he didn't have to interact with these people and that's why guests had their own backstage area. Do you know what I mean. And you can just see that whole exchange where he does. She doesn't even look at them or acknowledge them. As real people she just is addressing him like in front of all of them It's a great way to go Ellen Way to go ellen. You fooled everyone for so long. But you never never fooled me. Yeah I knew I had a hunch when she married pushes the Rossi because she was such a bitch famously for years and years and years and difficult to work with and all that other shit and I was like man. It's weird that Ellen would marry her and now it all makes sense. Apparently she's very controlling with Porsche like they've had many many blind items about them like just having a really bad marriage for that reason portions like really unhappy but she's kind of stuck in all of this And a tip me off a little bit back in day. She would like give people money and if they weren't as excited as she wanted them to be she was very bitchy. And you can see it comes out like you can't hide it if you're a fucking real bitch. The only real one out here is fucking Tom. Hanks I mean I would be the only person that I would be like. Oh my God are you kidding me behind the scenes right? I think he really is what he is right. I think in him and his wife Ellen like it would come out. You can't hide. If you're a true fucking bitch not hide. It went with the hanks and his wife. They're exactly what you think. They are like the nicest hope you know no one. I've never met them. I never hung out with them but I got to meet them once and they were unbelievable. Nice so fucking name is eleanor. I'm shocked about man. Are you giving your looks like? She's giving herself around. Haircuts you've been blind pre quarantine. He's been blind. I guess man he really just figured somebody's so happy and positive on a daytime afternoon show. You're like him in. You should probably walk that talk because if you if that comes back and get you it is I know. But her show hasn't suffered the ratings. Have some it's thinking that you are that powerful and that's why you do all of these things to begin with. That's why you treat people that way. That's why you treat waiters in this way that why you treat crew so far beneath you. You really think you are untouchable. That's why you shut down a barbecue. That's in the sound stage next to you because you think you have the fucking right to do it. I don't say that you're just fucking delusional like you don't think for one second people would believe if these lowlifes came out. Who's GonNa believe you like? I could see her in like a movie saying that. Who's GonNa believe you? I'm Ellen Right I love that when people say that. Who's GonNa believe you She said I guarantee she said it to someone. Who's GonNa Believe You May Your You pee on? Yeah I I'm starting to turn your way certain. Turn your way. Gosh what's IT GONNA take? I WANNA see her. Beat someone in public. I WANNA a boob way out of her. WanNa see your fucking backhand someone and that's what. I Really WanNa see aware of the camera. She would never do. How old is she alec? Look up her age ellen degeneres sixty. She's got to be in her sixties. She was close to quitting this last time. Sixty two or because she said it was ruining her marriage and shit but Sign on for another three years hundred fifty million dollars. It's tough to walk away from a little love to see a get canceled. Just like her other fuck and shit. I don't know who you're gonNA place her with. They've been trying over the years with people for this afternoon. Slots Harry Helen Clark. Here Kelly Clarkson is really becoming a beloved really figure in the talk show world so I really would be. It'd be awesome to Clark K. Clark took over Shmaya. She's just I think she actually is who she is too. I don't know who knows. Maybe Allen started out that way to. Oh she's sixty two allen sixty two. I know much about Allen. Do you know what I'm saying? 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So I don't know I will never be able to recreate this in a million years. I don't know if I'd want to. It's a little bit weird but hey you know by Friday between magnetic lashes irritating my eyes and just a bunch of bullshit by the last day of having ready I pretty much had it but her whole piercing starts to act up. You can only sit on that that hoop for so long and I do. I do a tiger king big padlock through it. So it really. You know what I mean or work out. It's ru speaking of rules. Ruben would ruin Brittany in here Brittany broken here. Jacob Nicole. Now he's always in there right. We ever do a shoutout shuttle. Jim Nicholson saying we love him. Yeah trump got on. Tv last night in his reopening the country. Jabes when so it's it's within thirty days here and he's GonNa leave it up to the governor's to decide for their own states sooner than that if they want. Yeah I look I K- probably won't the states the states that aren't in the hot zones they should in my opinion It's going to go in three phases The and this is very similar to what's Sweden did Where you know vulnerable individuals shelter in place when in public you know. Maximize your physical distance. Avoid socializing in groups of more than ten people. I'm minimize non essential travel and that's phase one right and they're saying look if things improve after fourteen days and then move onto phase two or it's just like we're going to reopen gyms and reopened all that other stuff. Wipe it down he smarts and then you know the older people and people with respiratory problems. Stay in place Then they'll slowly start to bring sports back first of all without fans and then hopefully towards the end of the summer with fans in place and he says he wants to get back to seeing one hundred thousand people going to stadium for Football Games in the fall and I hope that happens to the call that I was on last night for about the. Nfl thing was specifically for the NFL. And Will they come back again? There's so much. Tv money involved. That's even if they come back without fans will be able to get paid the trickiest one out there and we were talking to our Brooke about this. Last night was about college football. The hard part that they can't figure out they figured out all the other sports. I'm behind the scenes and we got some guys coming on some interviews. We've already prerecorded. That'll be on drinking bros. Next week that explains some of them some of the sports but the one that they're having a hard time with is college football because like Alec Alec is in school. There is a possibility that all classes will be shifted to online. Just in case right. How are you expecting college athletes to play football together in pads every single day when they're not in school and the rest of the staff school so colleges is the line? That's that's a tough one however it is almost everyone's favourite so it's like man. I would be real disappointed for college income back. I would sacrifice so the last question the phone last night was would you sacrifice? Nfl for college. Football your fucking right I I would. Would you sacrifice your grandma for it though? She's eighty eight. We've got a real good team this year. You know what I mean. Oh hang on let me just let me think this out loud. She is eighty eight. Her favorite team is Ohio state. I think I'm pretty. I feel pretty confident and putting a lot of money down on it once. The books reopened here. That Ohio State is GonNa win the National Championship next year over. Clemson and with that being her favorite team. Would you die for your favorite team? I Love Right. You'll news in making. You're making the choice for her. Essentially right I think she would make the choice yourself to you. Know I'm joking I don't turn it around me. I'm joking turn around on me now. Let's say Ross. A problem right and it was just like. Hey Ben. Would you risk it knowing that Ohio state's GonNa win the National Championship? Be like if I could just if I could watch the championship game if I was old enough in that range if I could watch the championship game and then go like an hour. Later pills booze. Whatever short yeah. I'm an and be a great way to die now. Hoisting the National Championship. It one last agree you dis. I'M GONNA STUFF. Another dudes dictum and my facebook so make sure that The insurance policy will. Yeah if I if I get gagged by Dick. That's the guy that's somebody else's problem suicide. So yeah do it. You know I McLaughlin McLaughlin. I like that's you know. How did he dies like well? He wanted his wife and kids have the insurance policies so act himself on John Mayer stick. You know we all Ha has all you know and I get the shadow face at the end. That's how Di with John. Mayer face like this Brenda. Now I won't you indulge me a nice John Mayer death. He's like dying on another conference. This is what Michael Boob as going through every single day at home. What probably a wife that gives them a lot of access like you do you know. And he's got to get rid of the old ninety degree right to the old ribcage will. Maybe she should have bring home a couple of slices of Bacon. I just got some new Sponsors this is really lucky. Yeah you Sun Basket Ooh Shit. Fuck you Do I am packing my bags tonight. On a cage. I just needed one more slice of Bacon that Pan and then I'll loop. Yeah who you're out of here forever forever but yeah boob way. I don't fault for banging around that cage. Do you gotta rattle that cage. Sometime to get to get your point across you know with cringe a little bit. Let's be real for one. Second fucking awful awful but it was boob way you know. He's eating corn. It's doc you expect like I I like. I expect nothing less from boob way. I expect some Mo fo like Boob Corny motherfucker like googling. Now malfa we do not curse on this show a lot No filthy language. There was a someone in our news. Feed live when we went yesterday. That was like why can I watch one thing without filthy? Yeah and everyone just jumped on them. Kicked him out of the fucking group married in the wrong place. You're not wrong you know. It is hard to find a wholesome show. We got the one one review and since by the way rate this show and I'd scenes were almost at a thousand reviews. Please just rate and review it. Give it a five star review at police. We're close and after that I'll I'll stop asking. I don't care after that like thousands good enough the advertisers and advertising agency. She's going to do it. But one of the reviews said and it was apparently like a new listener. They were like I was fine with everything until Ross us. Jesus's name in vain like welcome to the big show rice. You know. I'm the one who's carrying his cross. I'm the burden to bear. You really are yeah That tomb was empty last Sunday. It was me who had risen kidding of the Christ. Yeah dammit person is not listening anymore so you you poke that bear. But there's a lot of people in here offering me places to stay and Oh for a bats you get beaten posts. Pre why pre beaten or posts beaten beaten. I've got enough fucking slices of Bacon in the Pan Brother. Yeah you're I've been await. Just get a my own. My own bidder cage. Leave your up on down the road you know. Yeah Yeah Yeah. You're going to put all your stuff in a blanket but on the stick on stick. Just move on down the road. Yeah I like them. I like the lot chips. I'm joking. I'm fucking stock dude. You are and I'm I'm I'm Sore Chirace with this Ellen Ray. We are like a couple of feeling Couple of fun love and lesbians. You mean that Catcher's Mitt Baby we've talked about how I in theory should have been a lesbian right. Oh yeah you your your love of softball played softball for years us Love Home Depot. I could walk around at home. Depot restore a favorite story. Yeah so yeah. If I could wear a tool bell around and have it be like I would do it. One hundred percent hammer power tools. Yeah you do love power tools like putting things together. Yeah like you enjoy it. I mean yes and no I mean there's some things like the trampoline was a little bit of a mind. Fuck but like yeah. Yeah but still. You've got to get a lot of lesbian town tendency. Oh my gosh. There's just there's literally only one piece missing sports if you sat down to watch sports now like wanting to have sex with women but literally everything else no not. Once they were made out with one I think kind of drunkenly in front of guys but it was more for the guys than it was to like. Really make out with a girl. I'm saying Oh twenties maybe early twenties. Okay Yeah Yeah. Yeah but nothing that was like again. If you're doing it like you know those girls that are like do it with the guys their mind. It's not the same thing unless like instead of the difference like being by yourself with the girl unlike him well. This is a long life fringe as I don't want you to limit yourself. No I mean I have no desire but it's like hormones tape things change you know what I mean. I no desire right now but never rule it out. Yeah Yeah just like you. Don't you don't rule out like whether you're GonNa be with a guy at some point. I just said how is GonNa die was father's we all go. I'm GonNa die on that Dick That John Mayer Dick. You know so long went on Friday. Just will not end. We can and we can now. I mean I'm sure they would look places to to to go people to see. I don't I really I. Don't I get another show today? I don't have anyone to see you got some things to do. You're doing some. What are you doing tonight. You're doing some stuff right now. Well I'm going to school. You're helping children with school school right. He seemed really disappointed about that. It's hard isn't it? You don't know the letter sir. I'm kidding kidding. Jacobs what I do. Yep You're right I I actually do have himself do which is like a pack up my close out the bank account on down the road it would be awesome and our neighborhood with like shit like you. Just pack up your things and literally. Just put it on a stick over your backing just like really slowly. It took me an hour to even get to like the front part. Yeah Yeah Yeah So. We're going to do here to end the show kids is. We're going to give you what you want. A lot of people ask for this week. Ask Jamie for this week. We're going to give it to him. Put a single on Jesse Single Jesse Jamie. Who's GonNa Talk to you guys? Then there it is. It is your show. You're going to lose out on Fridays. We've been with you every single day. Yeah throughout all of this with you guys and you've requested and not even over again. Maybe we'll just do this every Friday afternoon. Just close out the show on a single on Jesse because she's the hot one. Do you guys notice that even into single on me. He's talking the whole time. Boy I'm going to put down the headphones and then Jesse will lead us out. I'll lead you guys out what's up what's I don't I don't have a crime corner I don't I know I am David Wagner what's up Dude Nico the Greko. How are you guys? What a what a shitty week right. What a fucking pile of Shit. It's been and it's okay to cry you guys. You don't have to be positive okay. This isn't the Ellen show. We're not fake here so anyways. Fuck Alan. I guess we should go Senator Brooke. I'll see you tomorrow for some workout. Hope that I Puka MY MOUTH. Puka blood my mouth like he told me you promised me I would. So if you don't deliver ob unhappy about it though. I'll be doing that by.

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Kevin Mitnick - The World's Most Famous Hacker | Mystery and Murder: Analysis by Dr. Phil

Analysis of Murder by Dr. Phil

1:09:02 hr | 11 months ago

Kevin Mitnick - The World's Most Famous Hacker | Mystery and Murder: Analysis by Dr. Phil

"Hey I have a very special special presentation for you this week on mystery and murder analysis by Dr Phil. I always do a series. But I'm doing a one special presentation tation right now because we're coming into the holidays and I just so happen to have the number one hacker in the world and this is a time I'm that it is really important because we're heading into the holidays in you're going to be exposed because so many people are doing online shopping. You're going to be putting that credit card out there when you're buying things online you're going to be laying it down when you go to stores and people are going to be holding it in their hand. They're going to be seeing your her driver's license are going to be seeing your credit card. And you're getting ready to find out how to protect yourself. I know you probably think all right. I've got insurance on this and my bank protects me where I'm not liable but you know what if you get your identity stolen. It can be a year getting that unraveled. If then so I'm GonNa tell you how to protect yourself by presenting to you Kevin Mitnick so we're GONNA be talking about how to to keep you safe going into the holidays so you don't spend your time trying to unravel a terrible wall of yarn here. We go if you've been injured in a car crash or other incident. Don't let an insurance appearance company. Kill your claim. The personal injury law firm Morgan and Morgan fight to get you full compensation and it's free to hire them unless you win for a free consultation visit for the people dot com forward slash analysis. That's for the people dot com forward slash analysis looking for ad free episodes of my podcast. You can listen to. Every new. EPISODE AD had free only on stitcher premium for free month's trial stitcher premium go to stitcher premium dot com and use Promo Code owed Phil stitcher premium dot com and use Promo Code P. H. I l.. Tell everybody listening what you now do do. Because you have carved out and actually defined an entire cottage industry you sit at the top of. What's become an entire industry of fiber security ready to wear several hats I I'm a public speaker. So I go around the world. Educating audiences and businesses on how to protect themselves against the threats out there there they really enjoy doing that because kind of showing how the threats actually work and then educating the people inside how to what to do to make sure. It doesn't happen to them. I run another company. Company called mix security and what we do. Is We do ethical hacking so companies. Hire us to actually break in like the bad guy so we could break in physically basically electronically we could use a technique called social engineering. which is You've heard fishing before. Roy and these sort of types of what we call trade craft and then the chief hacking officer a great title of a company called no before and were based near Tampa Florida. We have about over eight hundred employees now and we're in several countries and what we do is we do new age security awareness training so we educate businesses. Usually a lot of videos are me EH. Demonstrating the threats. In how companies need to protect themselves and we have a simulated fishing platform so our clients could actually fish their own users. Chris fishing was what I mean by sending a militias email with a lien or an attachment that when somebody falls for this it ends up compromising is on the computer and the threat actor gets control of it so we allow our clients to fish themselves. Sort inoculate them. And in this whole process s. they become less susceptible to these types of attacks because the number one way in today for nation states criminal hackers hacktivists is usually through email usually through a fish. Usually it only takes one. We can talk a lot about just what you've said so far. I do want to talk about that a little bit before before we move on because I don't WanNa make this a nerd conference where only people that have a big background in all of this. I know what it means because just from things that I've read that you've written and done I've learned what some of these things mean and I'm stunned none that I've just now learning what some of these things mean seriously. Yup But Betty and Idaho this listening to this. That doesn't know where the vulnerabilities owner abilities are. I WanNa talk about some of those things like you throughout the word fishing in a minute. I'm going to ask you to find that but so people know you're the chief hacking officer now. But you've been a hacker since you were in your teens right. Yeah actually how I got started Is From my love of magic. When I was a young boy I used to ride my bicycle? Over to a magic shop in The valley part of Los Angeles and watch these magicians inside the shop. Perform their tricks over and over and I stayed are there because I wanted to know the secret so then went into high school. I met this kid who could do magic with the telephone system. Some six thousand nine hundred seventy eight and he can get my mom's unlisted number. He could make my phone ringing he could. If there's no number on my phone you can call a number and a computer reads a back. You know this is before computers are mainstream right and I was just going going. Wow this is so cool and I was a prankster as well. And I wanted to learn all about the phone system so I could pull pranks on friends and one of my favorite pranks was was. It changed my friend's home phone to a payphone. So parents would say please deposit twenty five cents right so I just love doing this stuff and this is how oh I got involved with hacking is really my love of Prankster. ISM and taking control of the phone company and This is what led me on this path back in the seventies before there were any laws against computer hacking. You know this would lead me on this path and became quite addictive like a computer game right if you will and I ended up getting myself into a lot of hot water I went over what I'm doing today making lemonade out of Lemons and helping the community helping governments helping educational institutions protect themselves against the threat south. I don't think we need to go into a lot of detail about that. Say at one point you were on the FBI's most wanted list because you were scared. Neighbors out of people by what you could access and get into whether it be a financial corporation or or records or whatever. I'll even better than that so I was in federal court in downtown Los Angeles here for what they call a bail hearing when I when the feds you know caught up with me and I remember the prosecutor telling the judge not only do we have to hold Mr Mitnick without bail. We have to make sure where he can't get access to the telephone because he such a grave danger to national security. So I'm sitting there in court guy like what's this guy say and then the judge Judge Marianna goes what do you mean and the prosecutor went on to say. Well if you give Mr Mitnick access to a telephone in prison he could call up Norad Brad whistle into the phone communicate with a modem and launch nuclear weapon. Well I started laughing because I never heard something so stupid in my life and my attorney got upset of of course I was laughing in federal court and the judge actually put a court order that I was to be held Pretty much in solitary confinement for about a year is held their year. You're right because of this Myth that I could whistle the launch. So the fear factor that you're mentioning. Oh absolutely existed in my case because as the public didn't really know about computers back that back in the Mid Nineteen Seventy S. There's no Internet you were in prison for five years and one was in solitary confinement. How did you convince them that? You couldn whistle up a missile. How well the funny thing is is I never? I never went back to that. It was kind of hell. It works in the criminal justice system. I'm in America is prosecutors. Could use the fact that they can put somebody under very unpleasant conditions of confinement. And it's it's It's a bargaining chip. The prosecutor has to gain cooperation or to have you plead guilty to certain types of offenses so in my particular case became became a bargaining chip. That was used later. So if you plead guilty or you cooperate with us. We'll let you out of solitary confinement. Well if I could really whistle the launch codes they wouldn't be letting me out right so so that's how it really worked. Okay so just to be clear. You cannot whistle a missile. Well I cannot confirm or deny now I can't i. That's something kind of out of a movie like war games and nineteen eighty-three. It just is not possible. Yeah I'm sure you've been more than once compared to catch me if you can. Yeah because when you alternate got through with all the incarceration the US government government contacted you to see how they could better protect themselves. Yeah Joseph Lieberman and Fred Thompson. inviting me to testify at Congress on and how the government could better protect our computer systems in our country. So imagine I'm in custody for five years. I was released in January of two thousand and the March. I'm flying to Washington. DC to help our government so as kind of a surreal snap turn. He's out let's get and so. Of course I went and offered what advice you know I could possibly give Congress and You know I don't think it really helped. Because they don't. They didn't really do anything. Anything in there was no action item. So here's advice advice advice but if you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink so if they don't do any action items nothing ever changes changes. When did you get out and go to Congress Two thousand okay in two thousand. Of course there was completely different computer environment than we have now all modesty aside. was there anything. In two thousand that you could not have hacked allies pretty successful at At compromising systems In two thousand. I wasn't allowed to use a computer for three years. Actually that we're the government had these onerous conditions of supervised release. I could even use a cellphone. You know. Last I launch a nuclear weapon Do I believe I could have hacked anything pretty much and the funny thing that a lot of people don't realize is you. You don't have to be a technical wizard to hack into a system. I perfected a technique which is called social engineering. And I learned this just when I was involved in this phone freaking what I mentioned you could send an email and convince them that I'm somebody I'm not and have a good pretext a good story that makes sense offense and where they'll agree to cooperate. They'll agree to type something in their computer. Install some software put in their username and password you know and do in an action that allows me to gain control of their computer and in fact today when I'm hired to do this testing of large companies fortune fifty fifty fortune. One hundred. They want our team. We have a thing called a red team to actually test their employees to see if they fall for these attacks because again again. It's the number one way in so back in two thousand when you say well could have you had anything pretty much simple techniques social engineering. So what what you're saying. And these are what the scams are today where people are getting bombarded with the irs scams and other things where. Somebody's sending them something saying you. Better respond in pay this money. One of the most significant scams. Today I would say is what we call business email compromise. What does does that actually mean? That's where a fraudster goes out onto the Internet looks at Social Networks involving businesses and that one is called Lincoln Andhra Roy they analyze the company who works at the company who has the power or the rights inside the business to do a band choir and and then what they do is a develop fraudulent email. What we call a phishing attack and they'll send the CFO or his or her delegate an email and will look like it's coming from like the CEO or somebody you know that's on the C.? Suite saying oh please wire X. dollars to this account for this vendor but it's all fraught brought and unfortunately there are tons of businesses or people that work in these businesses that are falling for the scam and billions of dollars a year. I lost lost because people are fooled into wiring the money. My son has a number of companies that he runs summer kind of Silicon Valley type. Companies others are remanufacturing. The other day I believe it was the CFO of the company or certainly someone in that division got an email that appeared here to come from him. It had his address. It had everything. Okay and it says Ed. I'm in a meeting right now so I can't be bothered but I need need you to wire fifty thousand dollars to this account. Don't waste time do it. Don't bother me I mean immediate. I need this done right away. That's exactly what I was talking about. Business email compromise. This is the new age of fraud. This person was like. Yeah right I mean they thought I know I'm not as I'm us in fifty thousand dollars anybody without talking to him but she said I was this close to doing it because it looked so legitimate like it was from him and I'm not in the business of not doing what I'm told so I was going to do it. People do fall for that right all the time because it looks very real. It's in the normal course of business it's coming from somebody WHO's an authority right and And it's not at the tuna fifty thousand. It's at the tune of millions. Yeah and the people actually move millions of millions of dollars in bank wire and once he wire do a bank wire. It's extremely difficult to reverse that transaction. You know once it's out on the Fed so so. This is a very common technique of fraud being used today against numerous businesses so we try to educate business owners and people that work in these companies. So they don't fall for the scam. Yeah so you call it social engineering. That's the technique that's the name we call it like in the computer security world. Yeah Social Engineering Engineering is really using pretexting or con artistry with the object of of breaking into a computer so Social Engineering D. You really call social engineering like where you're trying to get someone to do a fraudulent bank. Wire it really doesn't fit perfectly but that's you know some antics. Yeah last week I got an email will and I wish I'd saved it. I might find. It took a time but I I won't because I remember exactly what it said but it was addressed to me personally gently and it said you've been hacked and to prove this. We have your password. Here's your phone number okay. And so you know. This is not bluff. We know that you're a member of this club And this tournament is is coming up in a week and the person that won it last year is so and so so. That's how you know we're really into your stuff and we're going to publish all of your emails if you don't send us five hundred dollars within a week common scam. The truth of of the matter is the bad guy or the criminal probably has very little information that they weren't able to find through social media research looking at your linked in at your your facebook at your instagram. So what they tried to do is take details about your life that are real and articulated email l. of a threat that they can't really carry out because they really never had the access but getting you to believe it and one primary example is a recent and sex dourson scam so basically the threat actors are the bad guys go to data breaches poll people's passwords. And then. Send me an email saying saying we have your password. We've been watching you and we've been recording you going to very inappropriate sites and unless you send and US you know five thousand dollars. We're going to send these videos to all your facebook friends and by the way if you don't do this in the next twenty four hours the price doubles and because somebody's old password. That was publicized in the data. Breach that anybody has access to. Because at clicks with the the person they believe rushed to the rest of the story so the scammer has some good facts right To convince you to persuade you to hook you in and then they tried to gain compliance but they really are scamming you. That's not really true. Yeah now most people know more than I do who you're talking about data breaches in you and I've talked about this a little bit earlier. But how does somebody let's take our lay listeners. Listeners through what is a data breach and how does somebody get a password. Yes simple so a lot of companies unfortunately been hacked and their databases which are are proprietary have been leaked publicly and in those databases for example are Their customers user names and passwords sometimes a Scramble the Password to make it more difficult if the to make it more difficult to identify but a lot of these database have playtex passwords and from these data breaches a lot of this information is aggregated. And you could buy access to websites online one of the most One I like and it's completely completely legitimate. it's a you know it's a service for security testers of and for people like you and I want to look to see if we're in there it's called we leak INFO dot dot com It will cost a little bit of money to do it. It's pretty relatively cheap. And what you could do is put your email address and see if your email address ever showed up in a ton of data breaches which is very highly likely and the passwords use like for Lincoln was hacked Adobe be was hacked so any of those passwords at us and linked in or using adobe are publicly available and unfortunately people have the tendency to use the same password at a bunch of different sites or they change it up with a number at the end. I mean usually you could identify. I A person's pattern and from these data breaches they either create phishing attacks like we just discussed. Hey I know your password. We've been watching you through your Webcam. We're going to publish all these videos to facebook unless you pay five grand or The actually used those user names and passwords. It's a try to hack your email or in today's show You know we talked about hacking up a web cloud camera and it's because does all. This data is available. People do not know how to properly manage their username password. They should not be thinking of it themselves. Yeah I know that's the tendency. Pick a password what people should use as a tool called password manager and all of them are free and what happens is the password manager actually creates a random gibberish password. That set on your computer. You don't have to remember it and every time you along go to log into the website for example it will auto fill that password for you. The only thing you have to remember is what they call a master password. What's a master password that unlocks? It's all your passwords for the Password manager and that you actually have to think of yourself so what I recommend people to do is never use a password. Use a sentence it's I was in L. A.. Today and went to the beach with the spaces and the the right upper case I and all that sort of thing. And that's your master password. Don't use that by the way. Yeah right but US using a password just like that to unlock all your passwords in the password manager. Do the heavy work. And that way you'll never end up in a data data-breach well you could end up into data breach but that password that a bad guy can get access to what work anywhere. Yeah Yeah. So that's that's the solve while there's another solve we could talk about but that's one of the biggest problems. Here is the issue of passwords. That people don't no that their user names and passwords that they used legitimate companies big companies have unfortunately been leaked to the world and now the bad guys have access to it. Okay so if somebody out there has a net flicks account or whatever and they go to password manager and they set up there sure. Do they have to contact all of these places and change their passwords. Initially or you so if you already have password set you'd have to actually have your password or badgered change it for you. which you know is pretty much automated these days? Or if you're setting up a new account you basically just tell your password manager to generate a password. So there's a little a bit of work behind reciting the passwords of your existing account but what people in other areas where people don't realize in a way they could be hacked is a thing called password reset questions so their password by very strong but to reset the password Might be where did she go to high school Who was your first boyfriend or girlfriend? What kind of car did you drive? Things that are involved in that person's personal life usually personal personal relationships. You know things that they have schools that they've went to an usually. This information could be identified in social networks like facebook twitter instagram people. Well they knowingly do it but they don't think about it put out a ton of information about themselves us out there that potentially could be used later against them like to do a password reset right. Now I've got two laptops ops in front of me and you've got a computer in front of you both of these of mine and I'm sure yours has a camera. Yes hell vulnerable. or how likely likely is it that somebody will access one of these cameras. I know it would be easy. I know you can do it in twenty seconds because I saw you do it today. But how likely is that to happen at. Somebody's going to get to a camera and start watching what I'm doing at home. Should I cover these cameras up. That's the easiest thing I was going to say. Hey that's what Mark Zuckerberg does with facebook just puts tape over it and that's the easy solve if your computer's infected with militia software in a hacker was able to get malicious software and computer. That could absolutely turn on your Webcam. It's much harder to turn on your Webcam and not have the light show. It's definitely possible but Much much more difficult but the the easy resolutions but a piece of tape over the Webcam you're not using it So the biggest mistake people are making is their passwords are too easy to crass words. They use the same password. They use it The same password at multiple sites are in multiple applications. They use very simple password. Reset question reset questions and what are the Ways that people can protect themselves against getting impact is to enable at sites that allow it is thing called to step off indication. Your first step is putting your username and password. The second step is putting in a code. Owed now that code. You know the website could either texted to you on a on your phone or you might have an application on your phone where the code changes every sixty seconds since it's called Google authentic cater or You might get a push message. Hey is this you click yes. Click now type of thing and When people are able the two factor authentication it makes it exponentially more difficult for a hacker to get into the account even if they have a username and password so it's an absolute Recommendation that people enable two step authentication wherever they possibly can. And what that means is I'm GONNA put in my my password which is Xyz one-two-three. And then I'm going to hit enter and then they're going to send me the code to put Dan and I've gotten recently and they say you're ot p. one time password and you put that in and now it opens it up right. You're proving who you are to the computer by something. You know your password right and something you have your mobile phone. So that's why they call it to factor actor because you have what's in your mind and you have a device so how you get that second factor there's multiple methods You know one is a text message passage the other is you have an application. You could just bring it up or it gets pushed to your your phone. However you'd be you'd be surprised or maybe not that clever and sophisticated? Hackers could do a phishing attack against a victim that even using two factor authentication and have the ability to gain access to their account and rather than getting into the details of how that technology works. Because it's not a technical show is has talking about what the solve is what we need to know. What is the strongest form of to step off indication we could use? And that's where we're using a hardware where key one of the largest manufacturer I can think of as you Biki so basically rather than getting the code. That's text or phone. You have to plug in the key you into your computer. And that's the second factor you just plug it into one of your yeah one for USB slots or USB slots and and that proves you are now there's an inconvenience factor with that. Why because you have tech carry something with you? A physical token some people that want to bother they. I don't WanNa be inconvenienced. So then they fall back to the older methods so it really depends on whether the individual person once more convenience or boy security so in my mind where I want more security from a personal perspective is to protect my bank accounts my credit cards my brokerage accounts. Then I will use use the key. But if it's to protect something like my Access to The New York Times Wall Street Journal. Who cares right so then I would fall back to the so the lease secure method so these people that have the cameras in their homes and their WIFI cameras? People are getting into those. Does the way you're talking about where they find their passwords and then they just get into him that way by going to this we leak information dot com. Well what they do is they have to find. Individuals have passwords that are exposed publicly right right and we leak info and there's many other sites out there we leak info is the number one I would say. But there's tons of these sites out there that Where you could buy access to this information Asian legally and What happens is for pe- when people want to access for example Nah Google Nest? They have to use their g mail account. So what the bad guys do they look at these data breaches for people's g mail accounts that have been used for example. And then they'll try those on nest to see if they actually work or they might have gotten some intelligence at this particular user. Happens to us This this particular type of cloud based camera and they'll go in and just log in because they have their password right in the data breach and the reason people are vulnerable is because they choose bad passwords war. They choose good passwords. But they don't know they were. They were publicized before and they. They don't know that they should have changed them. So it's really because of the A person like you or me. It's how we're managing our security is what the vulnerability is and people have no idea. If they're on we leak INFO DOT com. They can check. That's my email address. Let's try it so let's try you know there. There's another site that people can go to. That's less verbose meeting. It doesn't give you much information. It's called a have I been owned owned DOT COM. And I'll let me spell that can have H.. Y. Been Be E. N. Pony P. W. N. E. Dot Com and that that site is set up there for the public to check if they've ever been if their if their email addresses ever been in a data breach. Ok P. W. in D. W. N. E. D. DOT DOT COM so. Let's check to see if you're in this data retail one moment put in your email address. Is this your one. Is this your personal one or is this okay. Let's see what we have Live anything one site I have you in you. Share this. It's file-sharing services but fortunately there's no password leaked. It just shows that you use that service so at that particular account. That's your main account you use for all your personal stuff. You're good so That should give you some sort of relief that you're not in this aggregated database here my. It guys tell me there's levels levels of security and that my emails are encrypted and what does that mean that probably means that You're using a service a third party service that When you send and receive sensitive emails it's encrypting it for you so A bad actor can't get access to the plain text of your email but it looks the same when I get it. Yeah it's happening In a transparent for him but you have to be using a third party provider You couldn't be just using g mail or hotmail hotmail or Yahoo one of these free services and it's probably going through like six male is a common ones e mail and that's a service that people subscribed you usually businesses and what that does is allows you to encrypt your email right and you talked about these. VPN's EPSN's you'd think that's a good thing for people to use. How often do you use wireless networks a lot and so I've got this? It's great that you're using. VPN WHAT VPN stand for that stands for virtual private network and when you should use a VPN is when you're using an insecure network network. You're at you're at a hotel you're at the airport you're on the street you're at Your favorite coffee shop or restaurant and you hook up to the Wi fi the the first thing you should do is connect to a VPN service. I could do certain things to To look at some of your data data possibly trick you into giving up your username and password. So it's really important to us. VPN service or another alternative is to go. Oh by a hotspot. Your local mobile store whether that's t mobile verizon. At and T.. Or whatever's out there and a portable hot spot. They probably cost two hundred bucks in the monthly fee. So you're only using the cellular data you're never using the public Wifi. What's the downside of that cost? So if you're doing a lot of data you're watching a lot of movies. It's better to use public Wifi because it's essentially free and if you use your data it's going to cost do you money So you have two choices use your on hotspot and If you have a low Oh data life if you will or if you're using a lot of data consider VPN and sixty dollars a year. One thing that people should consider when they're signing lining up for these services is to use VPN provider. That's trusted why because you're trusting them with your network connection see you want to look look at the reviews are they like over four star reviews. They have at least you know thirty thousand reviews that way you're you know you're you're using a provider sure that has a good reputation you certainly don't want to be using Ivan. VPN in Russia. Yeah yeah they didn't get any of my dad because I haven't used it yet. But how would someone know if they're using a VPN that got hacked. They probably would never know there. Were hacked the never knew and where the vulnerability lies is not using your home mhm wife. Well it could. If you're at home you don't you don't have you don't have it. Set up with encryption password. And that's the same as using open wireless network at at a coffee shop so so pretty much when people are hacked they don't know about it and you know so what we have to do. As consumers is kind of follow best security practices that are simple not complex but very simple for grandmother understand. That's GonNa make it very unlikely. You're going to become the next victim there. Sports greatest tea rose displaying superhuman like abilities to overcome intense pressure but when it comes to the downfalls of fame money and Ego these folks are far more human than they are super look every Thursday. PODCAST network's original podcasts. Sports criminals keep score on the darker side of sports. What I'm talking about here? Is that each episode. Chronicles the meteoric rise and then the devastating fall of some some of the world's biggest names in sports. We're talking about people like Lance Armstrong's wild ride from Tour de France hero to performance enhancing dancing pariah. You all know the story. Everybody looked up to him. Everybody wanted to emulate him and skate closer to the circumstances surrounding Tonya harding. You you remember her. 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Goethe's Zola La Dot com slash analysis. And get started today. That's Z. O.. L. A. dot com slash analysis. Thursday's show on Dr Phil is terrorized by technology held hostage by our smart homes. This is something that you truly want. WanNa see we've got Brooklyn are John and Andy and they had the terrifying experience of having their smart home. Camera Systems Hacked Brooklyn had complete strangers talking to her eight-year-old daughter. The Arjun Smart Thermostat was hacked and raised to ninety degrees with their seven-year-old son. Sleep sleep in the room and we're going to meet a guy named Hank who's the one that hacked Andy's system and then something that is is going to change your life. I have on the world's most famous hacker. Now you have all seen catch me if you can and Kevin Mitnick. Nick is the real live version of that. I learned so much in this show. I just can't even tell you then Friday we're talking about crime. The title of the show is we've lost control of our raging possibly pregnant teen Tony. Heather claim their seventeen year. Old Daughter. Ray has violent meltdowns. Police have had the intervene eighty times. Now she claims she's pregnant. You talk about emotional extortion when she got on the paramount lot where we do the show. She barricaded hated her terminally ill mother in the car and the question becomes do they ever make it to the stage or is this a meltdown. That never happens patents okay. Let's get back to what we've been talking about. Here's the big question. You mentioned Ivan Network Working Russia supposedly the election in two thousand sixteen was hacked. That's the word yes John. Podesta was hacked to a phishing attack. The Hillary Clinton's campaign manager fell for he didn't fall for the fishing attack. Actually the real story is he was suspicious of the email that said that his G Mail account was accessed from an IP address. That wasn't recognized he sent to his. It guy say hey this is weird you know should reset my password. Is this a real email the it guy so yeah that's real and then it was a phishing attack. Ended up putting his username and password in. And then if you know eventually led to the Russians getting access to this guy's email and all his email ended up on wikileaks So it was really falling for this attack and this is John Podesta so certainly. The Russians were involved in campaigns of influence and campaigns of hacking to manipulate the election election. And I have no doubt they'll do it again. Twenty twenty what they did is they went on the U. Social Media Facebook twitter and they've created psychopath campaign's does to basically campaigns that would The objective is to get people to vote for a particular candidate and This was a very okay. Well orchestrated allegedly out of San Petersburg Russia. Then you have John Podesta who was hacked to discredit Hillary Clinton by exposing taller confidential emails to the public through wikileaks. So that got out there. That's how that got out there. So I don't know of any elect voting machine or the count being hacked. I know that That are threat actors out there that our nation state meaning Russia show of course was able to influence and manipulate the election. You say that'll happen again in sure. Why not because it's a nation state if they could do you it? They'll they'll work on. They don't have a plan already. Absolutely if a I have no doubt that every country has offensive and defensive Sir of Cyber Commands United States. We have cyber command run. You know national by the National Security Agency Every country has this and we're we have defense we have offense and every country's tried to hack each other to gain some sort of intelligence and some sort of advantage so this will continue out Yeah pretty much until you know until the issue of computer security is resolved which I don't see that in the foreseeable future is seri- listening thing. If you haven't enable turn off if you have to wonder every time you talk to an we call Iot device what that means is Internet of things so everything is being connected your refrigerator your toaster your clock you know all your personal items and why because it gives you the benefit of having Information information pulled from the Internet. You know the weather the time You're maybe you're on your email account your notes of your calendar what you have to do so when you you go to the refrigerator in the morning you see your calendar there so these devices are now connected to the Internet so they become a potential target of a bad actor not not too long ago we were down at the tennis court and we were talking about something that we don't normally talk about and I don't even remember what it was but it was a kind of off off topic product or something and within a couple of hours by the time we finish play into people had ads popping up on their smartphones about that subject subject matter. Yup that's because a hill. Yeah well you're being tracked when you use the Internet in your surfing around. You're looking at different products. But we were we were just talking. Just talking about Syria was listening. I think is that possible. It's possible do I think likely I think and something else was going on. I don't without analyzing it and thinking about it further or somebody else in that group of people that you were discussing this with went on the phone and started surfing around and looking at you don't know about Potentially every time you're using these Amazon Echos and you now these devices and it's listening for your voice to do turn off the light turn on the light you know. Open the garage. Whatever you're doing you have to think about what else could the? What else could these manufacturers Amazon Microsoft apple ever put these devices? What are not really listening to? I have a tesla so I'm very careful in my tests. I'm always worried about what to talk about. Lawns team is listened to by overseas and it is absolutely possible but you have to actually go and prove it. It actually have to go through an assessment process and try to identify what data's being sent up it will be sent up encrypted see kind of have to measure how much data's being sent up. Could that be potentially part of the conversation. There's definitely a risk every time you using a smart device. Could somebody else be listening like the other day I was searching out. That's my car. There that fifty seven Chevy and so I was buying some wheels to put on it. Yeah some MAG wheels and so I was searching MAG wheels and looking at him found some like bought him but now for like a month. I've Been Gad's for like hey I've already bottom. Leave me alone. I'm no longer in the market. So now the easy way to solve that is is mm-hmm whenever you open up your web browser there's a thing called incognito mode and I don't know do you prefer the Krom. Do you like Internet explorer. Do you like Fire Fox. Do you have a particular browser arouse Ori Safari. So far you can go into private bowed. Okay and when you're doing your shopping stay in private mode. Oh Okay and then it's more difficult for the for them to aggregate the data. or The you know because you wouldn't believe how much data could be how you could be profiled by simply shopping on the Internet. Wow to take it to a bigger extreme. There's I'd you've heard of the dark web right right. That's my next question. What is that yet? And how does it work. Dark Web is accessed through a web browser called tour and tour. If you believe is actually developed by our military and the purpose the tour was to create a way to anonymous who you are and in this world of the dark web Bob People could sit up websites that only could be accessed through tour. So you have to be so. They've set a policy that if you're going to connect to my website you you have to go through the trouble the non-ionizing who you are so that could be good journalists dissidents trying to get up the story about some country doing I mean you know something that's evil right or could be used bad by predators out there that are selling drugs a child pornography and doing terrible things so to used a tool. That's used by good and evil right so anybody could download the tour browser and the whole idea of the tour browser is to be able to surf the Internet without revealing your identity. What your real? Ip addresses so if you're a shopper. And you want to make sure that if you're ron you know Chevy dot com wherever you're going to buy or MAG WHEELS DOT com wherever you're going and you're concerned about the marketing issues You could use tore four. But that's going I think beyond I think maybe going into incognito mode personally I just use adblocker so I get emails but none of this Garbage goes onto my display. Because I just use an ADBLOCKER APP to block it all and it makes it very simple. Is there a way for people to protect their phones from these robocalls. I installed a robo call APP from the apple APP store because I have an iphone and it doesn't work perfectly. I still got the call so unfortunately until they better their technology you have to add them to the block list. Yeah I I get them all the time. I had to three recall today. Very annoying change one digit in call right back. Just they call the what they do is they. They spoof caller. Id what that means is there. It's very very simple to do. Where the changes the number appeared to be calling from and is they just use a random number which violates the law by the way I believe they could be fined? Maybe maybe even it's a criminal offence but unfortunately there's not an easy fix for that. You talked about fishing. Somebody sends something that calls calls for them to disclose information about themselves. Yes and they do that. How are people using that to export most often? Are they getting into bank accounts or credit cards. They're obviously monetize it. How are they monetize ing it? And how do people watch for it. And how do they know well. What they're trying to do is in? These days is get into business accounts because of business account saying he could send internal emails and do bigger types of fraud So what they'll do was they might send you a phishing attack Maybe use office three sixty five. which is a Microsoft product and they send you a fish and when you've opened up the fish it brings up a log in page for office three sixty five and you think to continue to continue what we're doing to carry out what you're doing on the Internet? You have to put in your username and password is normal but what would that really is a setup by the bad guys so they're able to get your username and password when you type that in and hit enter. Are Everything works as normal. But you didn't know is you. Were fooled into giving out your username and password to the bad actors out there. So that is a system system now if you're not using two factor authentication as we talked about earlier in the show right now they can simply just log in into that particular site whether whether it be your email whether it be your cloud provider whether it be your financial institution and that sort of thing for everybody this listing how do they activate two factor authentication. You do it on the website so imagine you're using CBS Dot Com. Just you know. Of course. There's there's nowhere to log in that I I know of but let's pretend that was a site well and you could set up your own user account at CBS. Then you would see if CBS has the the Functionality to enable two factor authentication a lot of sites out there don't they don't even have those features so you're stuck with your using and password but more more in more coming online to allow consumers and business people of course to enable two factor authentication to protect themselves so the big sites out there the alphabet sites. It's you know the googles the Amazons the Microsoft's already have this But if you're using a bomb in pop website for example some shopping sites somewhere in New Jersey might not have it on there. So it's not something that you go to settings and click on her site so you set up on your client's computer at something. You have to set up on the website itself and it has to have that functionality to allow you to enable it and once you do that then obviously you're safer and then you talked about password manager. How do you get that? I'll tell you the one I use I you know and I I'm not part of the company okay so I'm not promoting it I I just use a tool called last pass L. A. S. T.. Pass there's another one called one password. Those are the two most common ones out there and you could sign up for. I believe for free a free one. I don't know if it has any limitations on it. I I think I pay who knows maybe ten bucks a month. I don't know what the fee is only pay attention and I just install it on my computer and I can figure it with my master password and every time I go like. Let's say I'm putting a let's say go to a new site Nevada DNB. And I have to. I put my username password. It's not in my password manager. The passer managers say. Do you want me to save your password. will pop up up a pop up. Do you want me to save your password. And that way the password managers kind of working in the background to collect all your passwords and put it into a database and then what the password manager allows you to do is configure it so when you do a password change or if you change your password. It's all random so it it protects the user by creating passwords. That don't make any sense of course and making sure that you never use the same password word on more than one site and it's very easy. It's almost like it's almost like an autopilot. So somebody downloads last pass for example and goes us through The getting started instructions. It's going to be quite easy for someone that's eighty years old doesn't use a computer to figure out. It's not that difficult. You don't have to be a nerd. Okay so I've got. Who on my computer? Yes okay but I also have it on my television at home. Yes when I click on it at home when I've changed it in here will that also change it at home Where you have to do as on your home? Let's say you changed it. The Password is changed here. You have to make you have to log in with the new password on your home. TV So it'll be that long. Random Password ended his given me. Yep Yep yeah one time noon after that it keeps rolling it over it will roll it over depending on how you set it If if you have a very long random password you really only have to set it once. I don't think many people are going to worry about hacking and Hulu account their five bucks a month. Yeah right it's not an interesting twisting target what hackers WanNa break into his cloud accounts you know accessing cameras accessing bank accounts accessing your portfolio eleo accessing credit card accounts. Something where there's some sort of monetization involved see. Want to know how the best way to protect your financial accounts. You might be surprised. I tell me as I how I do this because I'm more paranoid than the rest of the folks out there is. I actually have an IPAD pro and you could to do this. That's expensive. That's like eight hundred dollars. You could use it Google chromebook. It's basically using a second device and with that second device. Just use it for financial accounts. I don't use my main computer. South by main computer gets hacked that I'm using every day and surfing the Internet and I could get mel. Where on there? Who in the heck knows I know that this device. I'm only using to access. My financial accounts is pretty safe. And you're raising the bar so high that to chance. Your financial accounts will be get hacked through through. Your computer is very slim to. You're not out there with the Internet. Yeah you're not it's a separate. Yeah you're only using it for financial. That's it you have a separate pass. You could use the same password manager but it's a separate account You know maybe you have phil to. And that's what's managing that. That second device is it a hassle absolutely who wants to use a second vice. I see you have. Fortunately you do have the portable devices there so it might not be so difficult for you. But there's there's an expense factor in a hassle factor. Because when you're using the same computer your financials and your same for your email seemed for surfing the internet or watching Netflix Netflix Amazon. Or whatever you're increasing the risk they your computer could be infected with malware malicious software. So what we're trying to do here is minimize the risk a bit by making it a separate device so you think number one people should use two factor authentication. Oh absolutely that they should have A password manager a password manager and that they should use the VPN's when they're on a wireless network wire spot where by UH hotshot and if they do those three things are a hell of a lot more protected than they absolutely and one other thing that people have to think about. If you're using older technology like like some people when they buy a computer they never bother upgrading the computer because it works. I'm I'm using it to. My daughter is using it to draft her her score. Like why why am I gonNA go spend two thousand bucks on a new computer. Well what happens is people don't update the operating system So they're running on old versions like windows. Seven right which is old and which has vulnerabilities out there that these bad guys know about so. It's important to make sure whatever device you're using your using the latest release of the operating system that you could update for free for example. I have an iphone literally every week. There's an update date. It's a hassle computer after go through this process but you know what there was this group out of Israel called NSO group it's a group that that develops militias cyber weapons for nation states. They found a flaw in. What's up I don't know if you use what's APP where you can silently call hall of what's APP user and it would install malware into their phone and they can look at your camera they can look at your call logs? Look at your text messages. They can do anything they want. Facebook it by incidentally is trying to sue them because they're pretty upset because it's their product and And what happens is after this was discovered and kind of made public what happens is companies like Apple Patch these they come out with a newer release of their operating rating system. That they make available so people that you know think to them. Why am I going through that hassle? Why do I want to install that update? That's because there's lots of threats out there that those updates fix Such really the whole yeah. Yeah say what you're doing is you're plugging the holes it's inconvenient you have to connect computer. It's a hassle. It's always at the wrong time but you should consider setting some time aside to it okay. Going forward are there things things that are cutting edge coming hack trends and that you can warn people about that are either fresh in new or coming up well kind of you know. It's kind of the same old song and dance. Unfortunately anything I mean when we're talking fresh new that normally normally goes into a more technical conversation of the types of exploits hackers can use. Don't forget hackers normally. Don't go through the front door front doors. I mean they have fills username in pasture. I mean that's the amateur way okay For example when we're talking about cameras today their number of cameras on the market. That could be attacked. You don't have to know the password you know it's like a security vulnerability that somebody identifies and is able to take over that device without the a username and password so these things are changing on a daily basis. This is kind of the trend in where security people in research after. Researchers searchers have to keep their ear to the ground to kind of monitor. What's going on to protect their clients? So what I do for example. One of my I Yeah I guess one of my One of the things I actually do as since I'm very closely involved with people. Los Angeles with law firms here is celebrities. Actually approach my company and say hey we want to protect ourselves. We want to set up our devices. I get this all the time. We're we're working celebrities to what to lock down their devices and protect their communications because they're concerned about being compromised. So what we actually do is is we take their computer or we actually just have a spy new one. It's it's cheaper and easier. Send us a new computer or will buy it for you. Will configure figure it. The the process is called hardening. This is where it really means us. configuring all the security bells and whistles and teaching the person that who who's going to be using the A computer on how to use those bells and whistles and giving them the computer back and then they're able to operate with a good good sense of confidence and so they're much more secure than before because it takes somebody either educating themselves about how to configure their computers and how to use their computers. or You need someone actually train people in how to do it. So that's one of the things I did. There's been a lot of pictures hacked hacked Stupid Way The kids out of Chicago Found a flawed apples Site for find my phone and they're able to try as many passwords as they want without locking the account out because normally how people's accounts are protected as I could try fills password five or six times in. That's going to lock me out. I'm not going to be able to try it. You you know Roy Infinity while there was a flaw there in what a gave. Unfortunately these bad guys is the ability to guess at celebrity passwords. And they actually actually. It wasn't a flawed apple. It was a flaw in how these celebrities chose their passwords same issue as earlier today. Meaning people choosing bad passwords. And that's how they got to their photos and cloud well and what apple did because it became so public is what apple did is they now force you. You don't have a choice. And I think it should be the norm across the board with other companies as well the force every user to enable the two step authentication Asian. You have no choice or if you turn it off. It's a hassle. They make you protect yourself. They make you protect yourself. And I think that's where the industry really needs to go is where we have to depend and on manufacturers third party websites to look at providing security as default right not depend on the end consumer who doesn't have the time energy or interest insecurity. They just WANNA be secure. They want to be transparent. It just does it by default so for the camera. The Claude hot camera today. That company should have required when you sign up for an account you have to enable two factor and know how many people that would protected gazillions. Yeah just a simple. We'll change about you. Know why they don't do it. The reason why it costs money because it's a little bit complex so what happens is people are going to email their support. They're going to call support and then they have to hire people to handle that support. It costs money so what these companies are looking at is for their bottom line. It's better for their bottom line to make it simple an insecure. It's more expensive not too so we all know which way they're going to go right and it's easier it's less intimidating for the consumer consumer it's easier plug and play. That's it should people turn on location services I do and what's nice about apple's APP as you actually could tell the iphone what APPS could use location services at what time so uber APP. eilly allowed UBER UBER APP to obtain my location. If I'm using Uber but if I have if I'm not using at the time I don't allow it. So so what's Nice about iphones and that's why I kinda favor them is An android going in that way as well is it. Prompts the user every stage so you don't actually have to think about it or no configuration but you know I go in Do an APP which requires location POPs up to you. I want to share my location Asian. So that's the best way of doing it. That's why I kind of I'm kind of lean towards iphones. I'm personally like those because of that. So you say it's okay to leave that on but just be selective about what APPS can get to it exactly. Okay now if you're a type of person all persons Depends on the person's risk taller. But if you're just normal average guy on the street I think it's safe to leave him on and you know with particular APPs. Tell me this for our listeners. So they know Oh and I think I could make a good case for it but I want you to your most. Recent book is the art of invisibility. The world's most famous hacker teaches you. How how to be safe in the age of big brother and big data? Now we've talked about some of these things I know today but why should people get that book and read it. Well I think it gives people a good sense of understanding where like how easy it is for criminals for government agencies for people maybe significant X. others to get your information like you know how easy it is to violate elite. Your privacy is really what it comes down to. What inspired me to write? The book was when Edward Snowden came out in two thousand thirteen and revealed that the government was like monitoring everything we do. I was Kinda I suspected it but then he kind of converted I go. Oh my God all my phone calls all this all that not that. I had anything to particular hide but I wanted to protect my privacy and our principal matter of principle so I wanted to write a book that can help the general person on the street understand. What threats are out there in a very simple way like I? I have a story where I talk about students at a particular Taylor. High School in the Midwest and the high school secretly installed monitoring software. Were they were turning on student. webcams and spying on the students at at home. So this one student was called into the principal's Office for popping pills right and in other parents came to school. At what do you mean. Ah Johnny Stop Popping Pills. What are you talking about popping pills at home? How do you know this watching him on his Webcam? What what I mean? You're watching them as weapons. What Johnny was doing at home is is eating jolly ranchers? It's a candy. He wasn't popping pills so you know what ended up at the end of the day. Is the school got in a bunch of hot water because here a school that you trust is monitoring their students in their bedrooms right so what I try to do in. This book is educate people about the stories about what to watch out for and I give people the tools and what they need to do to protect themselves and their privacy for example. When you send a text message Phil I mean are you just you normally just send a message or text message on your phone norm? That's what everyone normally so technically those communications could be obtained tained by a lawyer. Let's say you know not you. Let's say someone's going through a divorce and the other lawyer on the other side says on that subpoena. Joe's text messages for court right well. Those could be subpoenaed because apple has the key to those messages so one of the things we might recommend that we are going in. The book is using an APP that anyone can download for free called signal SL AL and what this APP allows you to do for absolutely free is have secure text messages that nobody could gain access to not even the National Security Agency unless they compromise your phone itself or secure communications so why practical. It's time on the board of a company and we're discussing a transaction and I needed to be private because you know this is you know we're dealing with you. Know hundreds of million dollars of investment German and we need to secure those communications. I'm GONNA use signal so one of the recommendations like having the book as we explained to the reader what signal is and how it it benefits them and of course we try to only discuss free tools. That people can use but if you have signal and you're texting someone that's on apple you just tell album install signal. That's what I do. Yeah you'RE GONNA have to install signal so we've been being takes two minutes. The parts of this that I've read. I found really interesting. I wanted in the people. This is not a tech book that you have to have really deep background in computer technology. This look is written for people to understand with stories that you can really relate to at how they would pop up in your life circumstances and situations situations in your life so I don't think you want to read this book. I think you want to study this book and I think you WanNa keep it around because these things are going to pop up. You're going to wait a minute. Let me go get the art of invisibility. You're going to get in there and see what it says because things will be relevant to you at different times so this is not the kind of book you want to read and so that was very helpful. This is kind of book that wants to be a manual. Yes I want to keep this around. If you want an entertaining book My memoir called ghosts and wires it was we published it. You know through Little Brown in two thousand eleven. It's a New York Times bestseller and we just had a I. I can't mention who at this time. But we just I had a very well known person by The rights to the movie going to be working on the movie For the book. Hopefully that will be out sometime sometime soon. And you know how it goes in show business you know. They have to go through a lot of green lights to get there so fingers crossed. We'll see what happens but The two different books if you want a great story a human interest story maybe ghosts in the wires. If you WANNA learn how to better protect your privacy and what tools are out there without thinking. You're going to be reading a book for Microsoft on. That's too highly technical. You Might WanNa consider art of invisibility. Will you've really helped everybody today. And I WANNA thank you for your time and doing this. And I hope you'll come back and talk to us again when we're dealing with some of this stuff because you really help some people. Yeah that's that's my goal for free newsletter that Kevin recommends you can go to know before dot com slash cyber cyber heist news. That's no before that's the number four dot com slash cyber heist news. We also encourage you to watch the free home. Security course takes you through what steps you can take to protect yourself against. Hackers Hacker's that's no before dot com slash home-course K. N. O. W. B. E. The number four dot com slash home-course H. O. M. E. C. O. U. R. S. E. and the Password is home. Course thank you so much for listening.

Password manager facebook Dr Phil US Russia John Podesta Google Fed fraud Microsoft Hillary Clinton Congress
Bonus: Introducing Phil in the Blanks

True Crime Brewery

06:23 min | 1 year ago

Bonus: Introducing Phil in the Blanks

"Hi, welcome to true crime burry. We're bringing you something extra today. It's a preview of a new podcast. That's out now from Dr Phil McGraw called very cleverly fill in the blanks. Now, you probably know who Dr Phil is he started out as one of Oprah's most famous friends and was a frequent collaborator on her talk show. He's been giving advice on the Dr Phil show for over sixteen years, and he's had all kinds of guests from kidnapping victims to perpetrators the way. He interviews them has always been direct and eliminating Dr Phil doesn't pull any punches. Now. He doesn't and is show still has a huge impact creating massive means like cash me outside girl, who's turned her guest appearance into a huge music career. We've watched Dr Phil interviews as part of our podcast research on several occasions one that comes to mind is to. Thousand thirteen interview with the adoptive parents of missing girl, Erica Parsons. He confronted them on their lies before erica's body was found quite a job on them. He did I liked it. I liked the way he handled those people and fill in the blanks shows, you a whole new side of Dr Phil these are all new unscripted no-holds-barred conversations with celebrities and experts he has guests from neurosurgeon to lie. Spotters those are like human lie detectors and the also interviews celebrities like Kathy Bates, Jay Leno and Steve Harvey. Dr Phil loves trying to figure out what makes people tick. So he has some super insightful questions, which really gets his guest open up bills. Other goal is to share tips that you can use in tough situations. Like, the ten things you need to do if your life gets in crisis, or what to do if you go into your kid's room, and you find drugs in there. Dr. If this sounds good to you. And you'd like to hear more just search for fill in the blanks in your podcast app and hit the subscribe button. So you don't miss an episode. Now, here's the preview. Hey, it's Dr Phil here. Welcome to fill in the blanks. This is my new podcast, and you can get it by subscribing for free on apple podcasts dot com slash Dr. Phil she will look totally different than you do when I'm on TV doctor failed. They can't see you. It's audio remember. Yeah. That's right. Fern cusak. That you hearing by the way, she's going to be here doing this with me. So you'll be hearing her as well. Trust me. She got a lot of opinions. I sure do and don't get me started. Dr Phil listen, guys, you all know me. I've been on television for twenty two years. I'm doing this podcast because it is really different from what I do on television. This is all new content. This is not an audio track of Dr Phil when I'm on Dr Phil always have to be on task. And I don't get to spend the hour talking about all the stuff that I wanna talk about because I have to deal with the story right in front of me. But they're so much more beyond that specific story than I do wanna talk about. Well, you can download the podcast for free on apple podcast and hear what we're going to actually do. And I always like to talk about things that matter to people who care, and I'm going to do that. And I'm going to also talk to my friends, some are celebrities and some are not and trust me. You people are going to be kind of shocked at who's my friends are and when we talked to the celebrities you're gonna find out stuff, you don't know about them. It's not their image. Really just because I know the questions to ask I want this to be fun. Look, it's not going to be predictable. It's going to be candid, and it's really not going to be censored, you could probably already tell that. No holes barred here, we're gonna talk to celebrities experts newsmakers, disruptors sports figures, friends politicians. No. Not so much, please. God I don't wanna throw up on the Mike up. So sick of politics. Who do we have land up already? Well, we got Jay Leno comedian, Jay Leno. We hate him at Smith coming back into Dallas the play the Cowboys and Texas stadium in on a visitor's bus getting dressed in the visitor's locker room broke, my heart to pieces I felt like I did not belong in that locker room. I felt like I needed to be on the other side shepherd. Ron white Steve Harvey good friend of mine. Cedric the entertainer. Dr Pat Johnson he's header neuro-surgery. See your Sinai me. Tell me what's wrong, my brain Metta world peace. Megan Kelly who's been in the news lately. Charlemagne the God from the hip hop world. People to write great friend of mine. I like having a front row seat to whatever happens in the world. You know, what I'm gonna be my own guess because I'm going to be talking about things like the tin things you need to do if your life is in crisis. Maybe you serve. The divorce papers you find drugs in your kids drawer. What are you need to do before dark today? So you're going to get a little Dr Phil I'm still going to be giving you information. It's definitely going to be informative. So here's what to do. I want you guys to subscribe for free on apple podcasts and tell all your friends to do the same thing. Right laverne. Yes. Again, it in your books. Subscribe for free on apple podcast dot com slash Dr Phil. And we also have a website that goes along with this because we're going to have worksheets their information. You can follow up. If maybe missed it on the podcast. So that's Dr P H. I L in the blanks dot com. Dr Phil into Blackstock com. Look this gonna be a lot of fun. I'm new at this. But I'm good at it. If I do say, so myself, I guarantee you guaranteed, and I'm definitely looking forward to the ride me too. So that's it. We'll see you then. No. We won't say you the audio. But you'll hear me then be there. Subscribe for free on apple podcast dot com. Slash Dr Phil piece of the plane into God here and right now with my man, Dr Phil and we on filling the blame. Manda Cerny Morgan, I'm CoCo Vandeweghe. And you're listening to fill in the blanks with doctor Phil McGraw shared the show. And subscribe for free on apple podcasts or wherever you listen.

Dr Phil McGraw apple Dr Pat Johnson Jay Leno Dr P H. Steve Harvey Erica Parsons kidnapping Oprah Kathy Bates Megan Kelly Charlemagne Fern cusak Manda Cerny Morgan Texas stadium Cedric CoCo Vandeweghe Sinai laverne Dallas
The Killer Thorn of Gypsy Rose

Phil in the Blanks

00:45 sec | 1 year ago

The Killer Thorn of Gypsy Rose

"The killer. Thorn of gypsy rose, a Munchausen by proxy mother. He kept you in a wheelchair. She kept you on the seating tunes and muscular dystrophy by any that I could walk was her daughter driven to kill doer, tortured as a child you think this was your only. It was new true crime podcast series. The night of the murder your motives screaming your name through our ears. Then it all went, quiet. What happened that night? The killer. Thorn of gypsy rose analysis of murder by Dr Phil episodes, one two and three available now at apple podcasts and Stitcher.

Thorn murder Munchausen Dr Phil apple
Dr. Phil - Uncovering Your Authentic Self

The Oprah Winfrey Show: The Podcast

35:36 min | 8 months ago

Dr. Phil - Uncovering Your Authentic Self

"Twenty Five seasons four thousand five hundred sixty one episodes. I believe the Oprah Winfrey show was one of the greatest classrooms in the world Rolling never thought of it that way. The AHA moments the breakthroughs. The connections the occasional ugly cry so terribly every single minute L. O. Ell's the moments that matter. I opening light lessons. Never allow them to take you somewhere else. I'm bringing them back. It's time to open the ball. I personally chosen these classic episodes to share with you again. Every single person you ever will need shares that common desire. They want to know. Do you see me. Do you hear me. That's what I say mean anything to you. You're listening to the Oprah Winfrey. Show the PODCAST. If you answered yes to any of these questions Dr Phil. Talking to you today. Are you constantly tired or stressed or emotionally flat? Depressed worried unhappy or feel like you're living go through the motions existence. Do you do things you hate. Sometimes yet you continue to do them anyway. Well Dr Phil hasn't called self matters creating your life from the inside out and it really takes you step by step through your pass to uncover the key times the key people and places that made you who you are today. It's wonderful book. It's like reading. This book is being your own shrink. It is yeah and if you feel like you're not living the life you want. This book will help you figure out exactly why you are the way you are and how you can change it or if you're like me maybe you don't want to change maybe really learn. I learned from this book. There really lack myself a lot. I came away. I scored like as high as you could get on the authenticity tests. Expect you would because you work at it and you all revolve came away thinking love myself and self matters. Dr Phil says that if you say right now is the best time. Perfect time to read this book. Well I do. Because here's the thing I've been doing this for thirty years. This is going to sound like an extreme statement but I believe that everything that we wrestle with in our lives depression anxiety divorce all the things that we might wrestle with in our lives just finding meaning and purpose all trace back to one thing and that is we don't know who we are. We never figured out who we are. Gone back through the fictional south official south. What we do is we are just born into a life. I mean if your parents are blue collar or white collar or they're here there. Whatever or no caller. You're just born into a life and you start rocking along. And do you ever wonder how you became to be who you are? I mean because everybody has a personality. Everybody has a way of presenting themselves to the world. You have humor. You have this. You have all of these things. Maybe it's doubts maybe its competences. Whatever but have you ever wondered how who have become came to be. How did it happen? This book helps you figure that out. It's the idea is I want. Everybody writes about self. Yeah and nobody understands it so my idea was to demystify this and let me tell you why. I think it's important to understand it. I do think I understand it now and I and I think I said to you earlier. This book changed me. I bet you are really brilliant. If you write a book and learn something yourself you are just two special did all. I did all the things that I set out in this book. Did it all wrote it and I said all right now do it and when I did it and I went back and found those things that have written on the slate of WHO. I am to make me who I stand here as today. I was astounded at some of the things that were the key. Okay now your definition. Officials is a distorted self image based on world defined and signed identity. That's what she said. What are talking about is that there's an authentic self and fictional. Yeah and that's what I love about this. You decide you take the test to figure out. Are you working out of authenticity? Or are you working out of your fictional south? Say about two fictional self. Is We all dance for the world? We all have these things that we are expected to do. Were expected to be good wives. We're expected to be doting husbands. Were expected to be good. Workers were expected to be good sheep and so we just kind of go along be in shape and we don't ever stop and say wait a minute. Is this really me? Am I doing what I WANNA do? I tell you if you're not it'll just where you. So what is your definition of authentic? Authentic self is at the core of who you are. Every of us is is born with and then build on and learn certain gifts skills abilities and wisdom that really defines who we are and I think we all have a meaning and a purpose and mission in this life and if we don't know what that is and we're not living that then we're not living authentically. Every one of us has a highest and best use. I would hate for you to have remained a Kirby salesmen that would not have been a kirby vacuum cleaner salesman when I was sixteen. I was a sales solicitor. Phone anything wrong with being there. I saw more. Kirby's go ahead yeah. There's nothing wrong with being that if that's who you are and that's what you. WanNa do but if it's not then that's not a good thing so what I'm saying is you've got to find out what are your gifts. What are your skills? What are your abilities because Mehana? Racehorse has gotta run. You can't take a racehorse and put in front of a race. Horses got you got to ask what is what is that for you an important thing if you think it selfish. I'm telling you to do that is not selfish because south matters self matters. Here's the thing you cannot give away what you don't have and you are part of your children's life chain and if you are not living authentically if you're not finding and living in expressing yourself you're teaching your children to do the same thing so I. WanNa talk about how to get you in touch with who you really are and who you are called to be so you can show your children how to be who they are because we do not live in a society that is geared to individuality fall in line. Do what's expected. E one of the sheep be one of the sheep. So how do you find your authentic self? You know we've talked about authenticity and authentic self on the show but what Phil has done in shelf matters is give you instructions on how you can determine that for yourself. Phil says there are ten. Think about this. Everybody has them ten at least defining moments from your past. That will explain why you are the way you are. How can you tell if you are living a fictional version of yourself? Here are some of the questions from doctor. Phil's authenticity test. Are you generally uneasy about what people expect of you when you make a mistake? Is it difficult for you to forgive yourself? You sometimes call yourself. Names like stupid or loser. Do you worry that you're going to screw up? Do you often wonder if others are evaluating you. Do you feel it is too hard to get what you want in life if you answered yes to any of those questions. Dr Phil says it's an indication that your self concept is distorted if you answered yes to three or more he says you are not living authentically Dr Phil here and we're talking about how to get to the bottom of why you are the way you are fascinating. I mean it's really when I said at the beginning. It's like being your own shrink. Why you do the things that you do and how to change it. We do a lot of talking about authentic self and people talk about it but this is the first time I think somebody a phil has been able to put you in touch. How do you figure that out? How do you do that? I you say that. We have to examine the external influences that have shaped who we are and everybody has them well. That's true. Look when people talk about self they get into it from an idea of like it. Some abstract theory sort of thing. I wanted to break it down to real awards real world sorts of things people need to know how I came to be who I am. And when you look back over your life if you're forty years old you've live like fourteen thousand six hundred days and you could never sort all of those out but what we've learned is starting to become a blur absolutely well when you were forty. They did they get blurry or since it keep talking. But here's the thing. If you WANNA know how you became who you are you want to know what your self identity truly is and how you got there. You can reduce it down to three major categories. Let's go ahead. And you can reduce it down to ten defining moments. Yeah seven critical choices and five pivotal people all that exciting to no ten seven five. Go ahead all the rest of it is wallpaper. All the rest of it is wallpaper but if you go back and look there are ten defining moments seven critical choices and five pivotal people that have defined you and who you are today now. The whole idea is knowing what questions to ask that. Well try to because if you know the questions to ask then the answers are just easy. Okay so you know the right question okay. And the definition of a defining moment is what a defining moment is that thing that stands out in your life in a way that you were changed in that moment and what we do is do like a snapshot of how you were on certain categories and dimensions before the moment occurred and who you were after. That moment occurred because you will be changed by that moment. Something happens something occurred and up until that point your self identity was one thing and after it because that road on the slate of who you are. You were changed. It changed who you were up until this point in time for example in the book you talk about your good friend Oprah I do yes you do and I told you about. My credit defining moment for me was third grade. Miss Drivers Class. Turning in my book report early Honestly Katie. John was a fifth grade level. Book I'm Cynthia and turning that book report early because I love the book so much and having her then stand up for the class and say. Isn't this wonderful what she did. All the kids then turned on me because of it but in that moment I realized first of all when you do what you love. It doesn't feel like work. It didn't feel like homework and also because Mrs driver then told all the other teachers what I'd done that when you are excellent when you do well the word carries and learned that in the third grade and I was never the same after that and that was the decision to always do my best. I thought from now on. I'm going to always do my best. And so your point is good you don't have to. It's not like a negative defining moment it doesn't have to be negative. Maybe it is. I had some seriously negative defining moments that I talk about. Also but this for you was one that when you first told me this story you said it contributes to who you are today the way you approach the show the magazine. Everything that you do in your life was affected by at that moment in time when she stood in the Teachers Lounge and said have I got a star down there. I could cry right now. Okay common says she wants to find out why she struggles making decisions and fears getting into the game of life. That was her question. I'm the oldest in my family and as I grew up I always felt special because everyone looked to me to be the problem solver but inside. I always doubted myself to this day. I second guessed every major decision I make. I can't seem to take responsibility for my life. Can't get anything off the ground. I feel my fear of success is also spilling into my personal life. I just ignore it because I've been so obsessed with my career. It makes me unhappy because I know I have all the tools for success. I just don't know what to do with them. I still frozen just spinning my wheels waiting for something to happen. Please help I feel like I'm wasting my life okay. Carman's been figuring out what her ten defining moments are and I hear the one that impacted her the most happened. When you were third grade third grade I was called to the board to do long division problem and Couldn't figure it out. I couldn't begin the process and I had to stand at the board until I figured it out and it felt like ours that she left me at the board and when she finally let me sit down. I cry until the end of the day and it was just humiliating. That's been years ago. All Right now. How did you feel about yourself before that happened to? I mean even even that young. You had an idea of who you were and how you felt what was it. They're smart pretty much knew very comfortable and what I was doing and didn't have to go to people a lot for questions. I felt confident after that moment in time. How did that change the way you saw yourself? I kind of felt like all. My smartness is leaked out I just thought that I need direction all the time needed to ask questions constantly. Not Very confident in myself. Does your great start to falter. Yes really from that one moment at the blackboard and people just don't understand how that event as I said rights on the slate of who you are. Let me say that. She was only six years old but was advanced to the third grade right. Yeah you jumped ahead right so you jumped ahead so you already got all kinds of pressure being in the class with eighth year olds. Somebody comes and does that and you think so. Don't you learn long division in the fifth grade? We didn't learn to the fifth grade. Okay you're advanced now. I want you to understand is that may not seem like a big dramatic example. But you'll see that the things that we talk about in here don't have to involve like rape or molest or abuse their everyday things that accumulate to affect you in some way and standing at a chalkboard being humiliated in front of the class. Which is your whole world at that time but what I want you to know. Is that that moment. Changed you the way you are today because of something. I call psychic disfigurement it. It's like you can get disfigured because you get burned on your face or you get cut. That can disfigure you physically but you can also be disfigured psychically it changes who you are and therefore someone. That was perhaps ashamed if they had a scar. That might try to hide it and not even know it. You do the same thing with yourself psychically. And so you've gotta understand that you're saying I'm spinning my wheels. I can't seem to get going. I'll guarantee you it. Traces back in part to that moment. Let the blackboard. You still at the Blackwood. Well something said years ago on this show. We're doing a show talking about parents who argue in front of their children and he said when you argue in front of your children you change who they are so those of you who argue and fight in front of your children you're creating defining moments in your children's life every time that happens in one of the things that I talk about when I say you need to give this to your children as well. Teach them to be authentic. Ask yourself do you know what your children's defining moments have been kit. Do you know them well. Enough to know what moments have defined them in their lives. Dr Phil says in his book South Matters at the first step is to find your ten defining moments. You've been thinking about yours okay. You need to really sit down and write them down because now you think limbs is at six that okay. The next step is to look at the seven critical choices you have made in your life and you say a critical choice as a choice that affected your life up to the present day. Like what for example? Put you on a pass. There's something you do where you come to a point where you decide. I'm going to go to college or I'm going to get married I'm going to. I'm going to take this job or I'm not. I'm going to try out for the choir or I'm not gonNA mean choices that you make and they may be choices to drive while you were drinking. It might have been choices to start doing drugs. It might have been choices to marry the man. That's right I mean it it. It can be any number of things. And they don't necessarily have to be dramatic right although they may be. Don't they have to be dramatic to be critical dramatic for you? But someone else might look at them. You know somebody might have been standing out in the hall looking at Carmen standing in front of the blackboard and thought kids stand in front of blackboard but for her experience. Dramatically dramatically different. And you can't change what you don't acknowledge so. That's why we have to get in touch with those in. These choices may not have made the six o'clock news but in your life. They made a huge difference. They were headlines on the six o'clock news and you can't choose them I mean they're they're choices but they put you in a position to define yourself what's great about the south matters approach. Is that you then get to see. This is what's really critical. You then get to see that the critical choices that you have made choices and just like you made those choices. You can make other choices that you are where you are in your life based upon those choices that's right and you may not be able to choose that but you can reach us today right because where you are and whether you're living fictionally or cynically is is a function of the choices you have made are going to make so you may identify seven but I'm hoping to create seven more okay. Well then it says. He feels cursed because of constant failures in his life. He wants to figure out why he can't seem to make a positive change. He wrote to Dr Phil for help. I've been working on family business for twenty years now and have gotten nowhere. I don't even make enough money to pay my bills and live a life. I am unfulfilled and bitter. I feel stuck and unable to create change. No matter how hard I try at this point in time it is more difficult to change direction with the wife and family to support. I am not satisfied with my situation and don't know why can't change. I don't even know where to begin to look inside myself. I can't take it any more help. Okay Oh my God I mean do you see what? I'm saying about the critical choices and you came. You gotTA excuses for. You didn't have any money. They didn't want you to do it. But you just said I have made a choice that put me on a twenty year path that I do not want at but at least it's not paying your bills so you don't like it you work for what you don't want it's not giving you the money in the return that you want but it's a choice that you made and let me tell you that's still so many people are working for what they don't like that's right. Thank how hard you're working for what you don't want a boy and let me tell you how hard it is and you know you're gonNA tell me. I'm right about this and if you don't we'll cut you out but I'll tell you what it's like if you have an authentic self something and for you. It was photography right. Something a skill ability of vision. You had for you was to create those images in your life and you and you turn your back on that. And how many of you if you're like me you were kind of simple minded when I was growing up. Were you ever in a swimming pool and you were trying to hold a beach ball underwater. How you do that. It doesn't work. I mean it's constantly fighting to get out and slip into the side and it will wear you out. That's the energy you spin holding your authentic self down while you're dancing for the world and doing what you're expected to do and it takes all of that energy to hold your authentic self down and you may not even know what that is. You know what it is and when you're living a fictional life that's like pushing a boulder up a hill. You can do it. You can go sell your real estate. You can go through the motions. You can put one foot in front of the other but it's hard and like you said when you're doing something you love when you're doing something you're passionate. Boulder down the hill. It doesn't feel like work. That's right third grade that's right. That's why I put it in there because you figured it out and the third grade so you got to look at it and say I made a choice with a fifth grade book but the but the whole point is you're spending all this energy denying who you are. We don't even realize draining our life energy and you're spending all your energy working for what you don't want push that boulder up the hill and there comes a point where you gotta say you know you said. I did this for twenty years. The first story in this book. I talk about the fact that I did it for twelve. I did it for family. Business my dad wanted me to practice with him. You know. Go practice with him in town. I didn't want to go to the job. Didn't want to have and I did it for twelve years at damn near killed me because it was fictional. I was dancing for the world. It was not what I wanted to do. Dancing for the world or dancing for somebody else period expectancy and you feel like us we do. There's a real estate business. They need you. Come into this do this. But what about you and you don't have to like go divorce your families and husbands and wives. But you've got to find out what about me? Where did the things that I care about and want go? Am I live in fictionally authentically and that's an important question to answer and you made that choice. Then you've been on the road for twenty years. That was a critical choice. And you're still choosing it every single day and and you said it's hard on you typeset. It's tough with a wife and kids to make a change. You talking to the wrong guy with that. Excuse because I guarantee you you can do it if you find a passion if you find a way if you find the passion you will find a way. They'll says it. Critical choices are based on a hierarchy of needs and Bennett made his choice. When I know a lot of people are he just had eighty six cents to his name. So that choice was based on survival in one of the things. I want you to know is when you make choices. What drives your choices? And what we choose is driven by a hierarchy of what's important or less right then the the lowest need the last devolve need is is survival. The next one is security and those and if you're doing things for survival insecurity you're never getting to the things that you want. Which is you know self-expression intellectual expression and spiritual expression all of those things. Ask yourself what's driving your choices. Are you making your choices out of self expression in love or or feeling good about yourself or you're doing it? Out OF FEAR WHICH SURVIVAL INSECURITY. And the highest spiritual fulfillment is spiritual fulfillment. Where you're doing something because it lifts your spirit and gives you the feelings that you wanna have from the feeling and if you don't know what's driving your choices then you'll never understand why you're making the choices you're making just haven't you ask yourself. Why do I keep doing this? Why do I keep doing this? And if you don't know the answer to that you'll keep doing it. Okay thank of this for yourself now. Five pivotal people who've impacted who you are today. A pivotal person is a person that did right on the slate of who you were with something they did or said it could be positive owning it could be negative and the same person could have been positive at one point in phase in your life and negative in another couple of might be easy. Might be your mother or your father but after that you got to start thinking. Was it a teacher? Was it a friend? It may be somebody that doesn't even know they were pivotal for you. It may be somebody that in a split second they changed to you were or it may be something somebody that you live with for a long period of time but there are a pivotal people in your life that determine who you have become today okay. Carla is a stay at home mom and admits that she's unhappy and holds herself back but she doesn't know why she doesn't know why Lucky to be able to stay home with my children at the same time I feel like I'm losing myself. The days are trickling by and I feel like I'm being controlled by life instead of controlling my life. When I was young I thought I could be something great. I've always had a dream of doing something with my artwork and I've never made a sincere effort at it. I graduated from college got married and had two children. All the women in my family had children instated. Help I feel like my dad. Influence my decision to be a stay at home. Mom Okay here. We got one two three through doll. I feel like I left something very important of the picture. And that's me a person who just makes me might think I have it all together but on the inside I feel Acuff Ron. I feel like a failure most of the time I want more in my life. I'm not sure what would make me feel fulfilled. I will be forty soon. I feel like I'm having a mid life crisis. Well Carla had the assignment of trying to figure out her five pivotal people. So who was the person who impacted you the most? In how Carla. Well it was my dad. I'm the youngest of six children and he was very hard working man. I did a great job working and supporting all of us. But he was very critical of what we wanted or didn't got critical as you. Well early on. I always liked to draw and paint and I remember early on he he just he would scoff at it Any awards I one in school. Art shows things like that Then later on when it was time to go to college he said you can't make any money being an artist so therefore I didn't do. I didn't go to arts. Okay listen all right and I WANNA say I'm going to answer that and just to say with the rest of did. Did you hear what he did that affected her? And you're all parents now so that's why you got to. Aw or wherever stick figure they bring you okay and obviously you were doing much more than stick figures but let me tell you what happens with that that pivotal person in your life. Every one of us has a personal truth. It's something we believe about ourselves. We're not wearing the mask and putting our best face on for the world. It's at the core of our so what we honestly believe about who we are and nobody writes larger and more bold on that than your parents and for you. He said Gee scoffed at it. All these awards or nothing you can't make live and doing this throughout your life and so you checked out that pivotal person caused you to check out of your vision for art. Isn't that right and since then haven't you started checking out on other things in your life? You thought about checking out of your marriage you've checked out of of saying I'm not having any fun I'm just wasting my life here. I mean it you see how it spreads it changes who you are these pivotal people. He wrote on the slate of you. That what matters to you matters to no one else. They wouldn't pay you for it. They validated. There's nothing there and so you checked out and so these things that happened so many years ago. Connect up to WHO and what we are today. And we're all being passive in that and so you pick up a book about self and it gives you some atheist evolution of your ancestry and all that stuff. That's not it you've got to get down to. What are the ten seven and five that defined who you are today so you can have a to do list okay? I know the second half of the book is about. Then what do you do ten seven five a guy that Gama ten moments critical this before pivotals? Now what and it's not as easy sitting here with information and it's not as easy as just ten seven and five. There are questions you have to answer about each defining moment about each critical choice to identify how it has manifested in your life right now today. It's all about knowing the questions to ask. You GotTa know the questions to ask. But then you're right. The second half of the book is okay. What do I do about it? Do I do about it now because we respond not to what happens in our lives but to how we interpret what happens in our lives. What do we say to ourselves? How do we label ourselves? What do we? What's all of our internal reaction to those things? That's what you've got to get a grip on. The first half is historical and diagnostic. The second half is the power. What do I do to put myself where I WANNA be authentically? Put your thoughts to the test doctor. Phil's for questions you need to ask yourself to test your beliefs about yourself to determine if they are real or not what are the questions will therefore in what I'm saying is on everything that you think you've gotta start examining your thinking and your values and your beliefs and number one is what. I'm telling myself a true fact I mean is it a true fact and it sounds real simple but think about that if we were coming and saying you're a thief and he's well. I know better than that. I know. Factually that's not true. But if you're saying to yourself or somebody saying to you you're kind of boring or you're kind of worthless that subjective and so we start buying stuff that there's no factual basis for so number one. Is it a true fact number two to pass the Litmus Test? Does it serve your best interest? I mean does it serve your best interest. What's good for? You is good for those you love and care about. I mean if you're a mom and you say well you're talking about taking care of me. You better take care your children's mother because it's the only one they've got so you I mean does it. Serve your best interest number three. Does it advance and protect your health? Huge wakeup call for me. When I went through this process myself. And Start Holding myself to these standards about so much that I was thinking it wasn't protecting and prolong in my health because his putting so much stress in my life but thinking I could do everything for everybody and so I'm working real hard on learn how to say no. I think you had that as an issue would sing learning to say no. You say no pretty pretty well. Well I'm getting I'm getting. I've been writing this couple years. I'm getting better at it at in four. Does it get you what you want? Does it gets you what you want and you know Carmen back and think about the things that you're saying to yourself. I was special. I was smart now. I don't feel like I really have a lot to offer will stop. I don't feel like I have a lot to offer. Is that a true fact. Did you dumb at the board that day no does it? Is it in your best interest. No does it protect and prolong your life. It's wasting your life. You're burning daylight and does it get you what you want absolutely use. You Fail on all four points on just that one statement so you have to start saying I need to start testing my thinking because you know we treat ourselves. We think we'll tell ourselves the truth because it's US right. That's not true. If you feed yourself so much bad thinking boy I saw that in the brain thinking very good came out. You know what I'm saying. You have to challenge your thinking and it is not selfish to turn Selfie society. We are a selfless society. We're not selfish. We are self less. Our kids are selfless. They're they're they're living in Carpool going to dance. And Soccer and everything is program five hundred TV channels the Internet. We don't take time to stop and think. Hey wait let me think about me for a minute. Am I really doing what I WANNA do today because I want to do it? Am I doing this because I want to do it or am I doing it because it's what I was doing yesterday? Are you doing what you're doing today because you want to ban it or are you doing it because it's what you were doing yesterday okay. Ten seven and five ten defining moments seven critical choices and five pivotal people. And Ask yourself this question? Are you one of your five pivotal people see? I was feeling bad when I I took the test because I was one of the first people on my list and I was thinking okay. Who else could we think of? Yeah but boy if you're not making a big mistake because you're with yourself twenty four seven. Not Anybody talks to you as much as you do. The book is available in every bookstore in the country. Just look for the title self matters creating your life from the inside out and fills big head thank you. I'm so gonNA get. I'm Oprah Winfrey and you've been listening to the Oprah Winfrey. Show the podcast if you haven't yet go to apple podcasts. And subscribe rate and review. This podcast. Join me next week. For another Oprah show the podcast. I thank you for listening.

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4 - Mansion of Secrets: The Mysterious Death of Rebecca Zahau

Analysis of Murder by Dr. Phil

51:31 min | 1 year ago

4 - Mansion of Secrets: The Mysterious Death of Rebecca Zahau

"Bayat Tober, twenty eleven three months had passed since thirty two year old Rebecca's a house, tragic and bizarre. Dead. Three months had passed since Rebecca was found dead naked and dangling from a news off the balcony of her boyfriend's extravagant California beachfront mansion, three months past since the police had ruled her death suicide. And in that time, the little boy, who was gravely injured on Rebecca's watch her boyfriend Jonas six-year-old son max had also died from injuries. He sustained after deadly fall a fall that happened when we're record was the adult left in charge of keeping him safe Rebecca's family had held a funeral and they had buried two beautiful young Burnett. They called Becky. Griffin's comfortable sheets and do as made with premium quality subpoena cotton will give you the most comfortable sleep of your life. Visit Griffin home dot com or search Griffin home and use code analysis at checkout. That's G. R. Y. P. H O, N home dot com and use code analysis. Hey, if you one of those people that live solicited, things add free, you can do that with fill in the blanks by going to Stitcher premium and what's more, you can get a month free trial. Just go to Stitcher premium dot com and use promo code Phil. That's PH L, and you can listen to all of my ad free. But that funeral did not do what we always hope they do it had brought them. No closure closures funny word think it's overused in these situations. But it is intended to describe a feeling where you can close the book on your feelings, close the book on your raw pain. And at least put the book on the shelf. It doesn't mean that you don't get it down in read from it, it doesn't mean that you don't forget that person. But at least means that you have answers, you have some explanation. You've made some sense out of the tragedy. So the insanity of it all doesn't keep you awake at night, there, some order to the universe where you have made this, at least in your world serve. Some purpose and the funeral is kind of a right of passage. It's kind of a an event where you honor that person and it begins a new era without them that funeral did none of those things for this a half, Emily because they walked into that funeral with burning questions and they walked out of that funeral with burning questions. Why was Rebecca a young woman who they say had been so full of life dead? So long before her time. Even though Rebecca was laid to rest, her family could not wrist. They refused to close that book and put it on the shelf. They refused to say, okay, this was God's plan. They refuse to accept at Rebecca's death was a suicide. They said they knew her, and she just would not do that told me that seek committed suicide by hanging. I just lost it. My sister is not the type of person to commit suicide. I truly believe it's a murder. They said this was not in any way, the order of how things were supposed to happen. And of course, parents are not meant to bury their children. It's the other way around. Children are meant to bury their parents. So anytime apparent faces the challenge of burying their children. It's very unsettling and very hard for parents to wrap their minds around and that's exactly what was happening with his. Half, emily. It has been said that it is the duty of the living to find Justice for the death Rebecca's family vowed to dedicate their lives to proving their belief that Rebecca didn't take her own life. She was murdered in cold blood, according to them now because of everything I've just described you can understand why they would want to prove that something else had happened because if they accept that she had taken her own life as I said earlier, it's kind of an admission of failure. It's kind of admission of failing to see red flags. It's kind of an admission of failing to fill voids in their daughter's life. It's having to own being less than she needed to be inspired to live. So you can understand how someone would want desperately to find an alternative explanation. But was it more than was it more than them just wanting to escape ownership and accountability? Was there really an altar? Any explanation? They raise money to hire their own investigators. And then they decided their next move had to be drastic. They did not want to accept what the San Diego coroner, had determined as fact and they felt at in order to get the answers, they so desperately wanted they had no choice but to have Rebecca's body reexamined. That's when they made the incredibly difficult decision to raise Rebecca from her grave and have a second autopsy performed. Now, think about that, for just a moment before we hear Mary talk about this. You've gone through this rite of passage you've gone through the pain of the funeral you have stood by the graveside you have buried your loved one. You have covered that casket with dirt. You have closed that chapter and you have walked away thinking your mind what it takes. To say I'm going to undo every bit of that. I am going to raise her from that, grave, I am going to subject, her body to further dissection. I am going to subject her body to further testing, I am going to undo what closure I have done. This is a big decision listened to marry talk about that decision. I feel like my sister hasn't rested yet, because I don't have an answer for her as far as what happened to her. We believe that there were more things that were overlooked, and we believe that we would find out more things that weren't mentioned to us, or even looked into three months after she was founded three months after her funeral three months after that coffin was lowered into the ground in a gravestone reading springtime beauty grand daughter sister, favored end. Was put in place Rebecca's body was risen from. It's great. Rebecca was removed from what was supposed to be her. Final resting place in Missouri and flown all the way to Philadelphia where famed path. Allah just was waiting to conduct a second autopsy. And he was ready to take a closer look at Rebecca's injuries and what they could mean could injuries to her head and back finally proof. What really happened to Rebecca on that summer night? In the ocean side of Coronado, California. What did the second autopsy show did it point to murder plus Rebecca's family says she had no history of middle illness, or depression, and was planning for the future. They say there were no signs. She was suicidal. We talk about this so much that it almost loses its meaning but again, think about where you are psychologically, right. It is a monumental. Sison to decide to kill oneself. Think about how far you would have to depart from your current position to get to the point where you decide you are going to end your life. There are no more tomorrows. There's no more hope. There's no more seeing your mother or father, your sisters or brothers children. If you have them, there's no more compliments. There's no more hope for a chief -ment. It's all going to end in a matter of a split second. There's a big difference between suicidal idealization and suicidal action, whole lot. More people think about it, then those who do it and taking that final step of actually ending your life is a really big step and to appreciate how big that. Yep. Is think about what would have to happen? How far you would have to move from where you are now to make that decision in your own life. We have to appreciate the gravity of what would move someone to do this. Maybe you are one of those people, maybe you're answering that question by saying, you know, Dr Phil, how far would I have to move not very far? Maybe you're living in the ends of the continuing. Maybe you're thinking actively about taking your life if that's true, you really need to not just think this through, you need to talk it through with someone. And you do that by calling the suicide hotline talking to someone that you love talking to the pastor at your church, seeing therapist. Let me dispel a myth that I think is really important here when you call the suicide hotline, they're not gonna make you give your name they're not going to pressure. You. They're gonna listen, they're going to ask you questions, but they're not gonna make you do anything. They're not gonna come crashing through your door. You do have anonymity, so you can call without fear of being outed. But I encourage you to do that, because let me tell you, you don't have to be in a hurry, suicide might seem like it's going to solve your problems. But I can assure you it has really bad side effects, because it is forever making a point here that this is a big deal in Rebecca's life. And if you're thinking about it, it's a big deal in your life. Don't think it through talk it through. And by the way, if you wanna do then if you wanna talk he should contact national suicide prevention lifeline, and that number is one eight hundred two seven three eight two five five that's one eight hundred two seven three talk. So were there warning signs that had been ignored police say they found secret notes written by Rebecca was there, something darker brewing below the surface of Rebecca seemingly picture-perfect life, that her family just didn't see was she so unhappy that she didn't want to leave. Did she feel trapped was she so unhappy? She was preparing to leave Jona and could she have decided that suicide was the easiest way? And then there was a large knife, with Rebecca's blood on it found into mansion bedroom. It was used to cut the rope used to hang Rebecca, and she had no cuts on her body. So where did the blood come from could the answer that question be proof of an attack and point to a killer? This is episode four of mansion of secrets the mysterious death of Rebecca's ahead. Rebecca's first autopsy was conducted shortly after her death by Dr Jonathan Lucas the San Diego chief medical examiner, and he ruled Rebecca's death. A suicide. Our office concluded that the cause of death is hanging and the manner of death. The suicide doctor Lucas stated there was no evidence of struggle. And after examining, Rebecca's body, he believes she was alive, when her body went over the mansions balcony, railing, Dr Lucas, acknowledged that seeing a suicidal person tie themselves up the way the peered Rebecca hand with her feet bound in her hands tied behind her back with knotted rope was very rare. He said it does sometimes happen with suicidal people who want to die. They do things to make sure they're suicide is failsafe the sensually, so they can't change their minds midway through and try to save themselves. This is consistent with what I said earlier. This is a big decision and sometimes people wanna back out and what Dr Lucas is saying, is that people do put in mechanisms to close off. Any exit quarter so they can't change their minds but Rebecca's family just never bought any of that in, in the beginning. They weren't the only ones fighting for answers Jonas shack nine now accepts that his girlfriend's tragic death was a suicide. But in September twenty eleven he wrote, a desperate letter to the California attorney general, he asked them to get involved in review, the sandiego officials findings on Rebecca's death Jonas said he needed Asser, so he could bring peace to his family, specifically, his other children and his ex wife, Max's mom Dina, Jonas, said it was intolerable to sit back and watch his family tormented by unfounded. Rumors acusations he too wanted answers once and for all with the attorney general's office declined to review the findings they stated that just because there was excessive speculation about a case that did not require them. Being involved with a local investigation will Rebecca's family wasn't deterred. They weren't going to give up so easily they had seen the famed and well respected path. Allah, just Dr Sarah Wecht commenting on Rebecca's case in the media. Now you have to remember this case was all over the news and even know police ruled the suicide and close the book on it, people were still fascinated with the idea that a young and beautiful woman who seemingly seemingly had, it all would kill herself, especially in such a bizarre. What Imbaba czar way? I mean, nude outside and on display a end by hanging, which is uncommon for women. Not to mention hands and feet bound hands bound behind her back. Many news outlets were dedicating their lead story to the question on many people's minds could disability murder. Stage to look like a suicide was Rebecca left hanging with a cryptic note painted on the door so that it would look like she killed herself in a fit of grief. Was this all setup to cover up a killers tracks so in September world noted and widely respected. Pathologic Dr Sarah Wecht was booked, an interviewed by local San Diego news station, and asked to give his expert opinion on Rebecca's autopsy. At this point, he was not involved in the case. The new station just ask Dr wack to read and review Rebecca's autopsy, the one that had been performed by Dr Jonathan Lucas. They wanted him to discuss his own opinion of what he thought may have happened. Now there's something really common that we do in the TV business. We wanted dig deeper into a case a mystery. And so we'll often bring in other experts in a given. Field to express their opinion to give a second opinion on what some other expert may have given in a report. And that's exactly what happened here. Dr wack went on TV and gave his opinion, and that opinion gave her beca. Family, a glimmer of hope. Dr Weck said he wasn't sure at all that this was suicide and he took it a step further and said that, if he had done Rebecca's, autopsy, he would have marked Rebecca's cause of death as undetermined he elaborated that, that meant there could be no firm answer on how Rebecca died until further investigations were done now. You need to know that doctor Wecht as I said, isn't just some random medical examiner? He is very well known. He has a reputation as one of the most prominent medical examiners in America. He estimates that he's done about twenty thousand autopsies over the course of his career and supervised another forty thousand. Thousand doctor Wecht is a former president of the American Academy forensic science. And he has been associated with mini incredibly high profile cases like John F. Kennedy Jon Benet Ramsey and Anna. Nicole Smith, so his opinion. Even on a case, he hadn't at the time done the autopsy four definitely held some water out medical examiners, often worked for the state or the county or the city, but they can also be hired privately. And when they're brought in privately, it is almost always to review what has been done. It's almost always to render a second opinion and medical experts that do work for the city state or county. Expect to have their findings reviewed and it's a really good check and balance system, quite frankly, they're used to getting second opinions rendered. So it causes them to be thorough to check all the boxes dot all there is. Crossed all their TS to look at all the tissues all the possible evidence and like any medical expert corners can often interpret findings differently and render different opinions, and I said before autopsies do involve opinions not facts all the time. And that's because in addition to the science where they look at tissues, and bones and what they find under their microscopes. They're also entitled to look at circumstances, and they render two different findings one is 'cause, and this is cause of death and this is found by examination and it talks about the cause of death. It could be infection or cancer or an injury. For example, it's what was the cause. But then they render an opinion as to the manner. Of death, and there were five possibilities, five categories that they have to fit their findings into one is natural. One is homicide. Another suicide, another as accidental and in the fifth is undetermined, and they are entitled to take into account circumstances when they're dealing with manner. Where was the body found what was in the environment around them were they're dangerous circumstances, around them where their animals around was it cold out? What was going on in vire mentally, so they can look beyond the body and take into account where it was found. That's permissible it's ethical. They're entitled to look at that look at where it was found if a body fail. They're entitled to look at the terrain. It rolled down a hill if it fell down a rocky cliff. They're entitled to consider where that. That body was found. And what it may have impacted before it came to rest think about it. If body fell down a rocky hill that would explain injuries to different parts of the body, as opposed to of it fell down a grassy hill. So that's an example of them being able to consider circumstances. Now, this is exactly what happened. When doctor Wecht looked at the first autopsy performed on Rebecca by Dr Lucas. He said he disagreed with Dr Lucas findings doctor Wecht took it a step further and said from what he could see that, frankly, it seemed unlikely that Rebecca took her own life, the autopsy itself with thorough, I have no criticism of the actual physical, performance of the postmortem examination. It's the findings that puzzle me and Lee me to express grave and serious. Doubts about the conclusion that the manner of death. Was suicide aside from the fact that she was found naked with her hands tied behind her back, Dr Weck pointed to unexplained hit injuries that he did not believe supported the theory that Rebecca slipped, a noose around her neck through herself over the balcony and died from hanging. He didn't see any reason that a hanging death would cause some Galeazzo hemorrhages, which are him ridges on the under surface of the scalp. You get those when your head hit something or is hit by something, the San Diego coroner explain those head injuries away by saying, Rebecca could have hit branches as she dropped from the balcony. But Dr Weck didn't think the impact of her scalp hitting bushes, or branches would be enough to cause that kind of him. He also pointed out that to hang yourself you drop feet, first, a body falling down wouldn't have bruises. From branches on the top of the head. She didn't dive head. First off spout. You need to understand that medical examiner's look at different planes and angles now by that. I mean if you have an injury to the top of your head, they calculate where that blunt force came from. Did it come from the right side at a downward I angle and therefore you create a plane that force impacted the body? And if you have something that is a blunt force that comes up under the chin that would be a different plane. So they look at the different planes at which the body is impacted for injuries that occur to the body. And then they look at the environment in see is there any way that that body could have traveled to explain the injuries. 's that are on the body, and that's where they look at the environment in what Dr Wecht to saying, here is these hemorrhages that seem to have been created by blunt force, where simply not in a plane, that would exist, if you hung yourself by stepping off of a balcony and dropping feet. I hang yourself. He said, you just simply don't drop feet first and get impacts to the top of your head from bushes branches. Dr Weck undoubtedly looked at the location of the body and what type of objects there were for her to possibly hit. And frankly, there just weren't any good candidates that were substantial enough to explain the not one not two not three but four impacts to her scalp that resulted in these images. Dr Weck said those head injuries alone. Could be the sign of a deadly struggle that the police simply claimed didn't exist. Those head injuries could point to our play. He said, and I quote the injuries on the head are clearly indication of some kind of blunt force trauma. So for someone to say there is no evidence whatsoever of any kind of struggle is not correct. In quote, doctor Wecht believed those types of injuries like the one that caused bleeding underneath Rebecca scalp would have occurred while she was still alive or in the minutes shortly after her death so that supported Rebecca's families theory of murder before she went over the balcony, according to doctor Wecht, it's highly likely someone hit her over the head hard with something Dr Weck also questioned why according to Dr Lucas autopsy report sticky tape residue. Found on Rebecca's legs, but no tape or even pieces of tape were found inside the house police said, Rebecca's feet were bound with rope, but her autopsy showed at some point, she had tape on her ankles and the sticky residue when the tape was removed was left behind if Rebekah had used the tape to try and bind herself before switching to rope, then where was the discarded strip and where was the row it was nowhere to be found. It couldn't just grow legs and walk away. If Rebecca used it and then killed herself someone would have had to get rid of it after she was already dead. Rebecca's first autopsy report says this about the type quote on the entire lateral mid left shin. There is a one by five eighths, inch gray piece of material and two smaller similar pieces. Just distal to it. Measuring one quarter. Inch and three eighths inch then parenthetically it says this appears similar to tape residue on the lateral Distel, right, lower leg. There is a one and a quarter inch by five inch area consisting of three horizontally, oriented parallel somewhat evenly spaced areas of sticky tan gray apparent type residue. They are situated between three sixteenths and five sixteenths inch apart in quote. It was also strange to note that during a ninety minute news briefing. Investigators never mentioned any sort of tape or tape residue during their review of the evidence saying, only that Rebecca used rope to bind her hands and legs before hanging yourself. Why was any mention of tape or type residue omitted, is it because they had no logical explanation for it, and because it didn't fit the narrative, or is it possible? They were withholding this piece of evidence for the public so they could use it in identifying a suspect. If in fact, they were able to identify one oftentimes, they don't give out all the details of crime so they can determine whether someone who might be confessing is in fact legitimate. But of course, even after they closed the case, they never revealed as. Information. Dr weks comments made a hell of an impact on Rebecca's family, finally someone with some cloud was saying something that backed up the belief they had in their hearts. This wasn't an open and shut case of suicide. So they had their attorney reach out and contact Dr way and ask him for his help ask him to perform a second. Autopsy on Rebecca's body and look deeper into what could have happened to her doctor wick accepted the assignment. Getting into that is easy. Getting out is hard thankfully, there's upstart dot com. The revolutionary lending platform that offers smarter interest rates to help you pay off high interest credit card debt bright. When I got into college all of my friends got sent credit cards and boy, they just wore them out. They melted the plastic, and then they were paying through the nose for a long, long time. And they sure could've used up start dot com. 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Now, clearly, it's unusual for a body to be exumed, but it's not rare, most of the time autopsies are done and findings are considered conclusive, and they are not challenged, but exclamation is done more than you might think, and do you lose data when a body has been buried and decomposing for a period of time. Of course you do, but if a body has been well in bombed at one year, you can expect it will be pretty well preserved, and you still have tissue that can be tested. And a lot of data can be gathered or verify. I'd at ten years, there will be some soft tissue remaining, and some facial tissue. Still remaining, for example, at twenty five years. Not much is going to be left in terms of soft tissue. Because fungus tends to eat it away at fifty years because the moisture and the ground you're probably going to be dealing with the skeleton. It will still show arthritis bone tumors breaks, bacteriological infections things of that nature. But across time there is a deterioration through the compensation this had been three months. And as I said, if a body has been well in bombed at one year, it is still, well, preserved this had only been three months, so we're Beck is body arrived in Philadelphia, and doctor Wecht completed his examination, he went to make sure that you consider everything that is available at which is relevant. Regarding these ultimate determinations of cause and manner of death body lies in normal state of supine repose, scattered superficial brains on her back and legs appeared consistent with impact plans, the hands fingers and fingernails show. No injuries, no rib, fractures or noted period. There are no fractures of the sternum period in when he was done. He was able to officially say that he had serious doubts that this was a suicide while I'm not prepared to unequivocally. With absolute scientific certainty say that it was a homicide and that it was not a suicide I lean very strongly towards being a side something involving foul play. And I lean very strongly against it being a suicide doctor, weks official determination, was that Rebecca's cause of death was due to hang and her manner of death was undetermined. And he said he was strongly leaning toward Rebecca's death being a homicide, not a suicide. He eventually came all the way around. And by the time this case, went to a wrongful death trial doctor Wecht testified in San Diego superior court that it was his opinion that Rebecca's house death was, in fact, a homicide, and that quote, she was manually strangled, and it was set up to look like a suicidal hanging clothes quotes, but he started out with ruling, the cause of death undetermined. Wet based his conclusion on several things. The first was the presence of those four him ridges on the right side of Rebecca scalp. Dr Jonathan Lucas, who perform the initial autopsy had previously called those wounds relatively minor. Dr wet disagreed. He determined the injuries could have possibly been caused by Rebecca being bludgeoned with a hard rounded object. I have yet to hear from the forcement in individuals involve. How you get four separate sub scalp, your hammer ges on the toffee ahead from a vertical hanging, you had to have blunt force trauma to the head impacting against some object, four times or struck by something for times of a rounded blunt force nature. So as not to produce lacerations of the scout that connotes that there was sufficient force that went into the cranial cavity in that knees as you could have had a concussion. And when you have a concussion, you might have. Unconsciousness. And when you get to the question of gee, there's no evidence of struggling, so on. Yeah. If someone is immobilizing fashion that can explain that not every concussion leads to consciousness, but many do and so that could. Well, explain why you have miss a how dead in this situation this scenario with no evidence of a physical struggle. Dr work also said that a fractured band of cartilage in Rebecca's neck, wouldn't have been injured as a result of hanging gif, but it could have been fractured. If she was strangled. There were other injuries to the muscles and skin of her neck that also suggested to him that someone might have used their hands to strangle, her doctor Weck also question how Rebecca's neck remained unbroken despite falling, nine feet from the balcony, I believe that if the body high just. Plummeted down with that sheer drop of several feet, then the cervical vertebrae would have been fractured or dislocated separated one from the other or from the base of the skull, and that was not present as found in the original autopsy, nor by me. But if you have a body that plummets dead way down. And that's the old-fashioned hanging. The reason it was done was to break the neck to ensure that the person did not suffer. We have no fractures of the cervical vertebrae of the skull is not disarmed ticketed from the atlas the first cervical vertebra, and that bothers me greatly with this kind of situation it cries out for an explanation. Doctor also noted several other injuries like a bruise between Rebecca's ribcage that he thought could be an indication. There was a struggle, and even though they weren't medical matters based on. The thousands of cases he had seen in his life. He had to question the strain circumstances surrounding Rebecca's death. I have a very serious question. When I think about the three thousand thirty five hundred suicides that I have done or examined in the seventeen thousand troops. He's performed in the thirty seven thousand other autopsies. I have reviewed or supervise. How does somebody go about binding, the hands in a Slipknot arrangement binding, Cavs putting a rope around their neck, then the shirt over the rope three times and stuffing in their mouth? Now, the idea that, well, somebody could do this. Yes. I know Harry Houdini did slip knots and things of that nature, seventy years ago. But to say that is a how was able to do it? I've yet to hear from the law enforcement people where did she acquire this skill? I'll give you a million dollars. Hypothetically. If you show me how you can your hands in and out of a not. So she accomplishes all of this, and then she gets up with her five foot four inch frame on top of thirty six inch balcony. And she plummets off awkward off that balcony. And she does so nude and all of my autopsies. I can't remember a case where a woman commits suicide nude in an outdoor environment women just do not do these things, but still much to Rebecca's families. Dismayed, despite this new professional opinion police stuck firm with their ruling that this was a suicide not murder. I have to say it is difficult to get an initial body, whether it's a court or a medical examiner or police department to change their initial position because when you think about it that requires them to publicly say, we blew it. We. We were wrong and therefore, we've wasted time and put this family through unnecessary pain in turmoil and we now publicly admit that we're gonna change our position. So when you appeal something to court, for example, and you're appealing to the judge that made the original ruling, you've got an uphill battle in getting that judge to overrule themselves is just human nature. The same thing is true with a police department or medical examiner. That was, of course a tough pill for Becca family to swallow, it hadn't been an easy to season to Exume her body. And of course, it took an emotional toll on everyone, but they knew in their hearts it had to be done. And even if they didn't have a new ruling. They now at least had a reputable person saying that what they believed wasn't completely crazy. It wasn't just them who felt that way. You have to ask was doctor Wecht completely objective or was he influenced by knowing what the family wanted to hear. Well, if you have all followed doctor weks career you discount that pretty quickly he's not much for telling people what they want to hear. He's about science. He's about findings and he will give you his findings and he will tell you why he will back it up and Rebecca's family clung to Dr wax findings as well as evidence found on a large knife, in the guest bedroom. The attorney representing Rebecca's family reveals Rebecca's blood was found on the handle of that knife, but her fingerprints were not, and that blood was Mistra blood Rebecca was on her period when she died, and he believed that evidence showed someone sexually assaulted her with the handle of that knife. Now, I know that is a lot to hear. But why? And how else would that blood get there? If for some reason, Rebecca was in a state of psychosis, and did that to herself. Why wouldn't her prince be on the knife? It's not something I'm sure any woman could imagine doing under any circumstances. But it is something you sometimes, see in rape cases, when you see a rapist, do this to an individual to rape them with an object. You're dealing with a high degree of rage, a high degree of depersonalize ation, and we have to remember that rape is not about sex. It's about power. It's about exerting power and control over an individual. And when the violence gets to the point of salting that individual with a foreign obj-. Checked then boundaries have been crossed that reflected degree of rage and a lack of control that identifies an individual that is of the worst nature. This is the kind of person that does not have control doesn't have an edit button is not able to pump the brake with their rage, and disdain for women or the individual that they are aggressing against. So at this point with all the things I've been talking about, you're probably asking yourself. Why are the police turning a blind item this, this seems to be making a really good case for murder? So what is it? The police are looking at that outweighs this evidence. We've been talking about tape residue that indicates there was tape. But yet it obviously was pulled off. So where is the type that was pulled off whereas the role that it came from we have this knife, that has her Mistra blood on it, but no fingerprints, and certainly not her fingerprints? So it had to been wiped clean, so you're saying, just doesn't seem like a suicide. So what is it? They're looking at will. There were some things they were looking at one of the main pieces of evidence that police were hanging their hats on were no written by Rebecca before she died. They were found on her phone. It appears she was using the notes section of her phone almost like a diary, typing out her thoughts, and there were certain notes in particular that police found that painted a picture of a very unhappy woman she has been described as a young beautiful woman that seemingly had it all beautiful mansion. Beautiful location. Young healthy vibrant. But things are not always as they seem these notes painted a picture of a very unhappy woman, a woman who just may have felt desperate enough to consider taking her own life and something like max tragic accident could have tipped her over the edge. The police posted these notes on their website almost as if to say see she was suicidal here are some of the things she wrote and these are quotes taken from these notes. If I'm not thinking I am crying. No amount of money is worth what I'm going through being talked to, like, I'm a worthless person by kids who are spoilt. Am I just too much of a coward to face the truth, that I'm settling for the hope of a few happy years, which may never even come am I pretending? We'll be content without ever having a child. Is it my own fault? I have allowed myself to be completely cut off from my own life. My life does not exist. Those quotes are not consistent with the pierces those notes do painted, different picture of Becker. But Rebecca's family still says no way not a suicide. There's not a chance that she took her own life. They just don't see it was Rebecca woman who hid her sorrows, maybe her family just didn't know she was so miserable in her life with Jona and clearly some people like the keep up appearances some people don't open up to their loved ones because they're embarrassed maybe family members had cautioned her about abandoning her life and her career and moving in and becoming dependent on a man. And she didn't want hear I told you, so, and so she may be hides this who knows. And I read these notes, and clearly there is a degree of, of despair, but I have to. Say I pay attention to what isn't there? There is no reference to ending her life. There is no reference to saying. I've had it nowhere in there. Does she say enough is enough in too much too much? And I am at the end of what I can cope with. She's taking her own inventory. She's being self critical, but this is a huge leap from the content of these notes to saying, someone is at a point of taking their own life. Remember I asked you to take yourself to that point. That is a big, big step and Rebecca Sister, Mary says she did know Rebecca was unhappy, but she says Rebecca wasn't considering killing herself. She was just considering breaking up with Joan. Mary says her sister was sick of being treated like a nanny, and a chauffeur for his children in despite the appearance at Rebecca lived a pampered life that actually wasn't the case. Rebecca felt more. Like a glorified housekeeper and babysitter than a valued girlfriend after one family visit where Mary says, Rebecca was using serious. Elbow grease to clean moldy, parts of the glamorous mansion. She lived in her sister, says Rebecca finally led her guard down a bit and admitted to Mary. She wasn't sure how much longer she could handle the relationship the kids, the stress of ex wives. All of it and was considering leaving. But despite that Mary is adamant. She meant moving away, not leaving by way of taking her own life to Rebecca's family these notes left behind prove nothing, nothing, except the fact that if you compare how she wrote the sinister message painted on the bedroom door. She saved him. Can he save her? They just don't seem similar to the way she expressed herself in these notes. And so they pushed forward with their wrongful death lawsuit name. Ming Adam shack ni- as Rebecca's killer to them. Doctor wax findings coupled with the blood on the knife supported their theory that Adam had taken the opportunity when the mansion was quiet, and they were alone as everyone else set vigil at the hospital to sexually assault. His brother's girlfriend murder her throw her over the balcony and cover up his tracks and despite Adams insistence that he was not a killer despite police saying, only her feet were on that. Balcony and only her prints, and DNA were in the room finally someone listened. Seven years after Beck. House death her family's wrongful death case came before a jury of twelve men and women, who would decide once and for all what they thought really happened to Rebecca's, the, how before police found her naked and bound silenced on the grass of the lavish sprinkles mansion, but no matter what the findings no one would go to prison over Rebecca's death. This was only a civil case what if any answers, did the trial, bring and now eight years after her death will Rebecca ever rest in peace? We're gonna find out in the final episode of mansion of secrets the mysterious death of Rebecca's a how Dr Phil. They're over two million burglars reported every year. That's why SimpliSafe home security is my top choice. Hands down. Simply safe. Protect your whole home every window room door with twenty four seven monitoring for a fraction of the cost. Visit SimpliSafe dot com slash analysis and you'll get free shipping and a sixty day risk-free trial go now to SimpliSafe dot com slash analysis. So they know that I sent you that SimpliSafe dot com slash analysis.

Phillips Rebecca murder Dr Sarah Wecht Dr Jonathan Lucas San Diego Dr Phil Dr Weck California Rebecca Sister attorney Beck Jona Mary Emily Becky Griffin G. R. Y. P. H O Bayat Tober
Dr. Phil Says People Never Stop Surprising Him

Kickass News

51:44 min | 1 year ago

Dr. Phil Says People Never Stop Surprising Him

"This is kick ass news. I'm Ben Mathis. When you need energy on the go and don't have time to wait in line, grab it spreads. So monster, Espresso monster is a premium blend of Espresso and cream made with freshly brewed Espresso, coffee hormone free milk, and a unique energy blend complete with taurine and B vitamins each can has three shots of Espresso and comes in vanilla Bresso and Espresso and cream flavors. I had one this morning before I came into the studio, and let me tell you it gave me just the boost I needed to get my day going, plus it tastes so delicious. I'd drink in any way, so close your eyes, take a sip and enjoy Espresso Munster today. And now enjoy the podcast. Hi, I'm Ben Mathis. Welcome to kick ass. News before my guest today. Hit the airwaves. Daytime syndicated television was more freak show than talk show with names like Donahue, Geraldo Maury, and of course, Springer cynically exploiting dysfunctional families troubled teens and abused spouses for TV ratings offering little to no educational value and sending guests home, no better off and sometimes worse off than they were before. But then in two thousand and two Dr Phil McGraw debuted to show that proved that a no nonsense therapist who offered actual empathy and commonsense solutions could raise awareness about mental health problems and to get big ratings. In fact, the Dr Phil show which is now in its seventeenth season remains the number one syndicated talk show in America. And on today's podcast. Phil McGraw joins me to talk about the two thousand plus episodes, and countless guests. He's helped why many of them just can't accept that? They have a problem until they see it on TV. And how every time Dr Phil thinks he's seen it all he encounters a guest who completely flabbergasted him. He recalls. How losing a football game in junior high school inspired him to go into psychology in the first place. What it was like to go into practice with his father and why he eventually decided to switch from getting into the minds of his patients to getting into the minds of juries becoming one of the top trial consultants in America. He explains how that put him into contact with Oprah Winfrey. How he convinced her to move her entire TV program to Amarillo Texas for three months during the infamous mad cow beef trial, and why he was initially hesitant. When Oprah I invited him to come on her show. He discusses his belief that problems are complex, but solutions are often actually pretty simple. But he also says don't be fooled by the magic of television and his easy going manner. Because. Two hours of research in peer review by America's top doctors. Go into every single episode of the Dr Phil show. He shares a little relationship advice after forty two years of marriage, how his wife Robyn is the Dr Phil to Dr Phil always keeping him in check. And why Robin still sits in the audience of every taping of his show. Then Dr Phil discusses how his new podcast fill in the blanks is a welcome chance to interview. Interesting people without the pressure of having to solve all their problems. Why he desperately wants to get OJ Simpson on the show and why for his next project? He's ready to make a splash in the popular true crime genre. Plus why he never volunteers advice to his friends? What he do if he was mediating the government shutdown negotiation, and he weighs in on the prospect of an Oprah for president campaign in twenty twenty coming up with doctor Phil McGraw in just a moment. Dr Phil McGraw is perhaps the most well known mental health professional in the world. He's the host of the number one. Daytime talk show Dr Phil which is now in its seventeenth season. In addition to television, Dr Phil is also the author of nine number one New York Times bestsellers, and now he has a new podcast called fill in the blanks. Dr Phil McGraw, thanks for sitting down with me. Well, thanks for having me feel pretty important after hearing all that. Well, you should and that's just to start with you just walked over from stage twenty nine where you're shooting the Dr Phil show, and I was watching on closed circuit here. I guess I don't want to give away too much, but you were dealing with a guest who was kind of a handful and thought he was a smooth operator with the women, and maybe wasn't again. I don't want to give away too much. But he said some things that were pretty shocking that anyone would do to another person, and you were just incredulous. But I have to think after how many thousand episodes you've done at this point. Does anything really surprise you anymore? You are say of heard it all insane. It all in the minute. I say that. Oh, yeah. I say that I'll walk out there and somebody brings something up. But I think oh man didn't see that coming. You know, they say there's nothing new under the sun. There's something about the human experience people. Find new ways to run their lives off in the standing to me. But you know, when you look at things from a distance things can look really clear, but when you're in the trenches, it's really hard for people to see it. Sometimes I've had so many people tell me we have on our set we have fifty seven feet by eight feet of laser screens. It is the most it's the highest definition highest resolution screens, you can have in so many people tell me that when they come in and see their lives because we do background packages and bio packages when they see their lives onscreen on those big screens. They say that sometimes. That alone is is such a huge wakeup call ago. Really? I never really thought of it until I saw that how our lives are actually unfolding and playing out now that I see it. It looks very different to me. Yeah. What is it? They say if it's on TV than believe it. Now, you're listen, I were just sitting here talking about high school football in Texas. We're talking about my less than stellar career. In high school football indexes and talked about yours. I understand that your whole interest in psychology all began with a wanna say either a high school or college football game that you lost. It was actually a we called junior high. Then they'll call it middle school now, and I moved around I wasn't a military brat. But you would think because I I went to first second third grade and Tulsa four fifth and sixth in Denver seven eight nine in Oklahoma City. Ten eleven twelve in Kansas City. And so I moved all around and the the game that he's referring to. I was playing in Oklahoma City in one of these. You know, pop Warner whatever they call them in. We had a game cancel because of rain. And the Salvation Army had a team, and they called our coach and said, I know your game rained out on the Saturday. Could we come Monday and have a scrimmage game with you in our Cosette? Sure. And we we were really bad asked. So we thought we had flashy. Uniforms, and I everything matched and the the Salvation Army team pulls up into three pickups out there, and they come piling out of the back and look like the grapes around. I'm dating myself when I say, grapes. I know what you mean. But I mean, these kids the kid that lined up across from me had on blue jeans rolled up to the knees for football pants loafers for football shoes. He had on a button up shirt for football jersey and had the number four in masking tape on his shirt, and you know, we're snickering in the Huddleston. And why didn't he put it on? Magic marker. That's gonna come off. Well, you know, that's how dumb we are. He put it on masking tape because that was his shirt that wasn't as shirt that was his shirt he had to wear that to school day. Those kids lined up across her mass. And I'm telling you that kid hit me so hard it still hurts when it rains, I they they beat us like they were clapping for a barn dance. Maybe fifty to nothing. I remember walking off of that field and say into my dad what the hell happened. And he said, well, you just got you ass handed to you on a platter. I thought well, I'm looking for something a little more in depth than that. And he said they just wanted it. Then those kids they they they don't ever get to play on a field with grass they don't ever get to play with with referees. They I mean, this was a big thing to them. And they just wanted it more than you guys. Did it? I thought in that moment, he if those kids can do so much with so little how much should I be able to do with so much more. And I thought right then I was envious of those kids. I mean, they had here they are Salvation Army team some of them living in group homes, but I was envious of what they had inside. And I wanted to know what it was. And I started studying. Motivation. I started studying, you know, why people do what they do. And don't do what they don't do from that day forward. I was twelve years old, and I've been really focused on it maybe to an obsessive level since then because I've really been focused on now did studying psychology make you better football player. Not even almost. It doesn't increase your foot speed. Jump higher run faster. But I, you know, I played in junior high high school and college and never very well. But I did get a scholarship to university of Tulsa. And I I wouldn't have gone to college probably without it. So I can't complain too much. Yeah. Now, I don't want to embarrass you hear. But I heard that your team was on the losing end of one of the most lopsided games in college football history. Will you go back to the part about? I don't want him barris you hear. Oh, right. We got beat a hundred to six by Houston. And I didn't play in that game. I was on the team. Okay. But that was back in nineteen sixty eight so people can Google it and you'll see Houston Cougars one hundred. Tulsa six. But the Hong Kong flu was kind of like the bad. Flu strains today, and it had gone through our team. And most of us were in the infirmary sick and Bill yeoman don't wanna pick on anybody. But Bill yeoman was the Houston coach. And he said look don't cancel the game. It will cost the school too much come down. We know you're sick. We'll just go through the motions not gonna pick on. You're not going to run score. We had a guy taken snaps at quarterback that hadn't played the position since seventh grade. And I think twenty three players went down. It's all that were well enough to go down there. And they ran the score up one hundred. So how's yeah? They're sportsmanship for you. You graduated with your PHD in psychology. And as I understand you went into practice with your dad. Right. We'll do for wars practice like well, you know, my dad, and I didn't get along. Frankly. He was an alcoholic and a pretty bad alcoholic, frankly. And I think as a result I haven't had a drink in fifty years. Wow. As don't do it never have tried to get drunk once in high highschool. Couldn't do it. I would get a hangover while I was drinking and not after while seriously. I'd be I'd be in the middle of it feel like somebody hit me in the head with an ad. But he was a bad alcoholic, and we did not get along. Because of that. I didn't like him when he was drinking, which was almost always. And so that was a contentious relationship to say, the least and after that you co founded a trial consulting firm called courtroom science, zinc, right? What did you do with courtroom sciences? Well, you know when I was going through school. You know in psychology you declare a program to go into go into clinical or counseling or school or research, or educational clinical is the area that most people think of as a as a therapist dealing with neurosis and psychosis, and you know, doing seeing patients and doing therapy. And that was the program. I was admitted to and while I was there. It was an I pay APA approved program. They launched a new program behavioral medicine program. And so I decided rather than having a a minor area that I would complete two cores the clinical core and behavioral medicine core. So it's to PHD cores only one degree, but to ph D course, and my focus within it was brain and central nervous system. And you know, when when somebody gets injured car wreck on the job, whatever they break, an arm or hip or something. Fifty thousand dollars insurance settles it goes away when somebody gets a brain or spinal cord injury you now talking millions of dollars life plans, they hire experts to come and testify. And because that was my area of specialization, I wound up testifying allot for both playing if independent sides of the docket and people decided that I I did so fairly effectively. So I did it a lot. And then they started asking me, you know, can you help us cross a plan cross examination for your counterpart on the other side is they're going to have an expert. Can you study their report and help us cross examine them? And then it was like, well, our corporate Representative is really not a good communicator. We want him to testify like you do could you kinda help prepare him and. I've got a very busy practice you. Go to court wheels of Justice turn slow you plan to be gone for a day. Then you're gone for four. You got all these patient. You can't got to wear it. I had to make a choice between one or the other. And I decided I really love the trial work. And we decided just I'm gonna do that in a big way in so courtroom sciences was launched and it was kind of toys R us for lawyers. I mean, we had a full size replica of a federal courtroom. Wow. The only difference being the jury box health fifty people instead of six or twelve but judge's bench elevated, the whole well of the court. We had six deliberation rooms all on closed, circuit television. So we could have six deliberations going on at one time fed to a control room much like the one we have here all going to tape. So we could study patterns of deliberation. What was the common themes? What made a difference not make a difference? So we did trial strategy. We had a graphics department that sometimes would. Run twenty four hours a day for four hundred days in a row. Sometimes I mean through the holidays we had private jets fly in graphics out to different trial sites around the country. I mean ration- major undertaking. We did trials all over the country had clients all over the world. So a lot of it was focused on figuring out the psychology of the jurors in hell, whatever strategy would be perceived or what ordered to present things. How to present things we really help lawyers and clients tell the truth effectively you go to trial. You may have a thousand facts, but there's a subset of those facts, presented an improper way are going to be most effective with that jury, and it's our job to find out. What that subset of the total university facts are and what jury is going to look most favorably on those. And so we would help put together that. Recomposition? We did mock trials. Many many trials before the actual trial took place, and then we went to trial and helped in jury selection. We would often have a mirror jury in the courtroom that Matt's the actual jury, and we would debrief our marriage URI every night give feedback to the lawyers and elaborate very elaborate. It was a it was a little drum major undertaking. Yeah. Yeah. Now, I gotta be honest when I look at the OJ trial and things like that. I find myself feeling pretty cynical about juries. And plus my wife is a lawyer. And she tells me all of the things that you're telling me right now, you know, if it was my, but that was in a crack, and I was about to go before a trial. I don't know if I would want a jury trial from what you've seen would you want a jury trial. Or would you rather take your chances with a judge? I would one hundred percent base it on what the cause of action was. But my general attitude is juries tend to get it. Right. A really I think the collective IQ of the jury is at least twelve hundred that's interesting because that's not the perception where I'm coming from. I think from where a lot of people are coming from. And I'll tell you. Why people have that attitude? They have the misperception that they go back there and deliberate whether the person is guilty or innocent. And that is not how it goes. Really? They go back there, and they may have forty pages of jury instructions, and then they may get a question. Do you find that the following six elements of action number one where Matt and if you do then proceed to question to if not jump to question seven, it's not in the OJ jury pretty much got it. Right. A really based on what they were asked. And what they were told. They didn't hear everything that was heard in the media, and they were not asked questions that got to guilt or innocence. They asked did the. Secutiy improve ABC in D based on what was presented in court, and the prosecution did not they spent the first three or four days talking about whether he was a good husband or not let me tell you. If you've got somebody dead to rights on murder. Are you going to lead with how good of a husband is? I don't think. So I mean that just the jury answered the questions that were put to them based on the evidence they were allowed to see that was not a well tried case had it been he would have been convicted. But they had to get one juror wonder to have doubt, and he walks. Yeah. I mean, I guess those are pretty good odds. Then if you only have to convince one person somewhere along the way, I read that you recently said that you would like to have OJ Simpson on your podcast would you'd think he'd get the truth out of him. He's never been. We've never been cross examined. I would like to do that. I spent a lot of my career studying and developing techniques, and deception detection, and there's a difference between spotting ally and getting to the truth. Spotting allies one thing. But then once you know, somebody's lying actually getting to. What is the truth is a whole different skill set? Yeah. And I would I would like to talk with him about that night. And man, I'd be interested to do that. And I think it would be very telling we're gonna take a quick break. And then I'll be back with more with doctor Phil McGraw when we come back in just a minute. Did you know that forty three percent of college graduates are underemployed working jobs that don't even require a college degree imagine? If one of the most significant investments of your life, your college degree only worked half the time. A refund is the least you'd expect with courses in software engineering data science, and you ax, you UI design flatiron school stands behind it students with a tuition money back guarantee. Bladder and offers graduates a career services program with career coaches and ongoing learning students who follow every step of the plan and don't get a qualifying tech job offer within six months of graduating are eligible for a full tuition refund. See the complete details at flatiron school dot com slash terms with graduates at hundreds of leading tech companies. The flat iron SCO program is working full. And part time programs are available online. And at flatiron school campuses around the world. Join the school that's reinventing education starting with student outcomes. Learn more at flatiron school dot com slash kick ass again. That's flat iron school dot com slash kick ass and now back to the show. It was in your capacity as a trial consultant. I think that you I met Oprah. Wasn't it something with the ranchers union or something like that was suing her over something? She said about beef. It was a mad. It was called the mad cow case. And this was a time when the beef supply in the United Kingdom was called into question because contaminated cattle were being processed and fed back to the heard that food then with the contamination was crossing the blood brain barrier and contaminating the cattle with this disease. There was some question as to whether or not that was happening in the United States, and this expert on her show suggested it was she said, whoa. I'm not eating another burger again. And supposedly the beef commodities on Chicago Board of trade went live. It down that day, which the cattle growers said that equal billions of dollars. I lost. Yeah. So they sued her in Amarillo, Texas saying that she had impugned beef supply, and they sued her for billions of dollars, and we went to trial in federal court in Amarillo. Well, I mean, it is her option not to eat beef if she so chooses, and it's her option to say, she isn't going. Yeah. But what kind of advice did you give her along the way? Originally are playing was you know, truth is defense to slander in the way, this works is they said she had slandered to be supply because it was a commodity that was perishable. And we had the proof that what she said. And what the expert had said was true that they were doing that ended to be supply was at risk and truth is a defense to slander. And we had the experts to prove that mid trial. I made the strategic decision to change course of action and not use truth as a defense to slander, in fact overnight. We got our experts outside subpoena range and got them out of Amarillo. And did not put them on. What we did. Instead was to fend her right to say it not that it was true. But her right to express her opinion. And that's why at the end of the trial. She came out on the courthouse steps raised her fist up and said, free speech rocks. That was her toll statement it to celebrate with a steak dinner. Where'd you go from there? Though, we did have a show that night. All right there in Amarillo to move the show to Morello for the real trial. You know, Kenny, she asked me in Chicago one day. What can I do to help? And I said, well, you could move the show AMRO, and she acts turned around picked up the phone and said find me a spot Morello were moving the show. So I mean, she was a game or I'll tell you. Yeah. Oprah can do that. I guess. Were you surprised when she invited you on her show after all that? I was she producer called and said, you know, hey, overwatch you to come on the show, we're doing a show about this. And so, and I actually said no, I don't think so and I'm not going to be here. Anyway, I'm going scuba diving. And they said, well, okay. They hung out about fifteen minutes later. She called back. So you don't say no to Oprah. She was laughing at you say no over what are you doing? I said I wanna do it. I'm going scuba diving with my boys, and she said, well, how about we wait till you get back, and I said, okay and zeal saying goes the rest is history. Yeah. I mean here I am. I guess twenty two years later still doing television. I had no intention of doing television at the time that you created the Dr Phil show you were kind of a little bit of a trailblazer. Because up till then. Syndicated talk shows similar to yours that brought people as guests who were having some kind of problems or behavioral issues were mostly exploitative Donahue's Springer. Yeah. You know, we. I graduated from Oprah university. And so you learned to do it in a very different way. And when I started to do Oprah even the first time, I said look. I don't know whether this will work or not and she said, well, everybody on my staff says it won't work that you can't create meaningful psychological moments in this period of time. And I've told them you can. Yeah. You know, Dr Phil can and most people can't, but he can just watch. And I said, look, I I'm just going to do what I do. And if Yong turned into television, fine. If you can't I was busy when you call a lot. I didn't make much difference to me, and I really planned to go do the show I figured it would be a one time thing, and we'd have a great time. And you know, she, and I were friends we'd hell we live together at a bed and breakfast in Amarillo for like, three months or something. So. And I'd worked with her for two and a half years leading up to trial. We had become very good friends. She's very good friends with my wife and dress Emma, go up, we're gonna have a good time. And he's up my did once and move on. But I said, look I'm just going to do what I do if you can turn into TV great became bind. Just can't do what I do. And then they work away to do it and turn it into television. And you have had certain people in the psychiatric community who've said, well, you just given out easy answers and simplifying things too much. Are you perhaps a victim of your success in that you do come in? And you make it look effortless. And there's a certain assumption that you just stroll out on stage and wing it, which is not really the case at all Oprah showed early on. She said your biggest problem is going to be that you make it look really easy. And the fact is it's not easy, even my own mother. She she's passed away now, but she called me. On time. We were talking and she said Phil let me ask you something. What do you do the other twenty three hours of the day says mother, what do you mean? She said, well, I watch you from four to five what do you do the other twenty? She thought I pulled up at four o'clock did this show till five. And then I went home. She had no idea that I get two hundred and fifty page notebook for every show and spend hours and hours preparing for this. She she had no idea. I mean people I don't know what people think sometimes because I I kind of have a. I don't know easy way of delivering things belies. The fact that there's been a lot of work go into this. And I've we have an advisory board here. Right. And it's made up of the top minds in psychology psychiatry medicine sociology. Even the G nursing got the head of the family division from Harvard Medical School, and the children's psych division Yale and Stanford University, Dr Zimbardo and a lot of these men and women are the editors of the peer review journals. So okay, they're checking things. Yeah. So I might send something a show about OCD, and they'll go actually there's been a real breakthrough article that hasn't been published yet. Let me send it to you. So the advice, I'm giving might not even be published yet. But it's been peer reviewed and cleared to go into the journal of avenue. Psychology, or whatever. So I've got really great resources. He'll me to be sure that I'm giving route advice, I've got this. I've got this knack for getting these gigs where somebody does all the work, and I get all the credit. Got a great staff. We've got a whole research now argument here people do a lot of work, and then I walk out there and get credit for all your wife has been to every single taping of the show has ever since day. One everyone, I'm a newlywed. Do you have any kind of marriage advice or go to tips that you usually give? Yes, dear. Yeah. Okay. That one we've been married forty two years and we've been together forty five, and you know, until we came out here. She never went to work with me. She never was involved in what we did what I did or me and what she did. And that was not the plan when we came out here, but we were doing some tests shows into beginning. And we did the first show and. It's kind of like it was over. And I'm like, should I stand here or leave a lot? Well, I should leave. I walked down the runway, and I'm going to turn right and her tears right there. I'm not it's so unnatural just walked by my wife, like, I don't know or just because I'm on TV. So as I walked by Reese down and took her hand said, let's go and she walked off with me and everybody in the control room said, oh my God. We love that. You should do that every time and Robin said fine, and you know. She does so much more than just sit in the audience because she's I think one of the MO foremost ambassadors in the fight against domestic violence. He has a foundation that works on that. She just went with me and testified on Capitol Hill about. Domestic violence and opioid abuse. And by young mothers and their children. She's raised over a hundred million dollars in money and services for the court appointed special advocates program, she's very very active in many of these programs, and she's a feminine side for me LA Times. I'll be preparing a show, and she'll say you better not say that say, you better say this because she's she's my feminine side. So helps you tell me Dr Phil has a Dr Phil or Phil either believe it well since we brought up Capitol Hill and marriage counseling. I have to ask what would you do with the government shutdown? You're in that room with Trump Pelosi and Schumer, do you think that you can help them make some headway or knock their heads together? You know at this point. I I really wonder who's agenda is being run. Everybody involved in this is being paid to run the business of this country and not any of them are doing it. And I think they're all jockeying for position. I think they're all jockeying to protect their jobs and who's doing our who's doing what we're paying them to do. I'm I'm a political. I I don't take political sides or positions. But I'm kind of like a pox on both houses. I mean, come on. Yeah. Guys. Let's let's we've got what eight hundred thousand workers not getting paid people have families and children children. And and mortgages to pay and food to put on the table. I just think that's just not a very good strategy. How about in terms of addressing the political divide on the macro level getting people to the table and being able to have productive conversations without yelling or other rising? Or, you know, I'm very disappointed that we've always been able to disagree have a healthy debate. And then. Say, hey, Ben lescoe lunch. You disagree? I don't like your idea. You don't like mine, we can talk about it respect each other's right to have their opinion. And then say, okay, we're talking about that. Let's go grab a hamburger. That's not how it is anymore. I mean, I think some of this is approaching McCarthyism is I see it in Hollywood. I see it. In lots of ways on both sides of the aisle. I am very concerned. You know, we preach all this inclusion and and freedom of speech, but we sure don't seem to be practicing it. Well, I wanna bring it back to your new podcast fill in the blanks, which I want to point out is P H. I L right, right. It must be especially nice for you to be able to sit down with someone and have a conversation without having the pressure of trying to solve all the problems. You know, it really is because on on Dr Phil necessarily I've got forty two minutes and eighteen seconds of content time, and I've got someone in front of me that presents a problem. Nobody comes here to tell me how well things are going. I've never had a guest say I just wanted to stop by lex. You know, have great things are going in my life. Yeah. And so by design on task with that issue, and that problem every time and in the podcast. I don't have to do that. I'm not stamping out disease and suffering. Instead, I'm getting to talk to interesting people about interesting things, and it's really been funny. I only have the second one up. Now. I did Shaquille O'Neal I and Dax Shepard is just today. But I've done about thirty five of them of only to jumping in with both feet. I've got about thirty five of them into Kim. And it's been interesting. I've done a lot of friends like shack and Charles Barkley and Steve Harvey and Ron white and David foster and people that I know, but I. Still learned some things from them that I didn't know when we sat down and really got to talking because it's it's funny when we're together, we're always doing something, we're playing golf or we're going somewhere or whatever. But to just sit down on purpose and talk we've learned things about each other. And it's really been a lot of fun. It's a little bit different than your show. You're not dishing out tough, love and hard truths. Have you ever caught yourself sitting down with shack or someone and maybe slipping back into that mode and call him out on something or giving them it is, you know, is it hard to shut that down. No. And you know, it's interesting. Socially, like, if if we were out to dinner three or four couples and somebody's got a problem with their kid or friend of theirs getting a divorce or something I can tell you. I'm the last one to offer advice. Really? I absolutely the last one offered by. I mean, in fact, it will wind up where maybe everybody said something they alternate. Look at me because I'm like don't give me and my wife will say don't look at him because you know, everybody kinda wears a social mask, and they'll say, well, I'm sure they'll work it out. What don't ask me? If you don't want to know because I mean, I'm not being the guy sits there and say, well, that's his second wife and her third husband. They got a seventy nine percent chance divorce. No matter what happens, and that's before you add in a seventeen year age difference. So the chance of they're making just about zero. So y'all quit talking about it. Let's go go. She's those don't ask. Because he's going to tell you the truth. So I don't volunteer. Vice when I sit down with my friends, we we pretty loose and had a good time said L Steve Harvey the other day, he and I are really good friends. And I said at one time, you know, what idiot gave both of them. I it's the same time. I mean, we we had a pretty good time. I'll have to say now who are some of the other guests that you have scheduled to come on fill in the blanks. You know, this isn't a celebrity podcast. I've mentioned some of these because I when I started out I just started talking to some of my friends because I think they're interesting people are they wouldn't be my friends. I guess. But I'm also talking to experts. And ordinary people in extrordinary circumstances. Like, one of the most interesting ones I've done and he's a very good friend of mine. But it's Dr Pat Johnson who's the head of neuro surgery at cedars Sinai hospital. There's been tremendous breakthroughs in neuro surgery. He's also a sideline doctor for the NFL. So he wasn't what goes on inside that tent. You know, what is the cash protocol? What goes on inside that tent what determines where they go back into game where they don't go back into game. What terms where they go in the locker room or just the tent? What would he say if he was having to make decision to let his kid play football or not knowing what he knows about CTE in rain damage and all of those sorts of things. So we had what I think is a fascinating conversation. Yeah. And he certainly not a celebrity in the celebrity, right? But he's very. Distinguished in his field. I talked to a woman who is self defense expert for children, you know, to dealing with predators, and that sort of lying, and I'm going to be my own guests as well. Because. This year. We have a lot of people that go get Dr Phil show content. Dr Phil content on the internet. I think this year will pass over two billion views for the year on YouTube of people going and getting information, but maybe somebody got served with divorce papers. So they'll go look for shows that I've done on divorce. And, but I've had so many people tell me that while that's helpful to them that they would really like to talk to me, you know, they look at the video, but they really wish in that crisis. Give anything by they could just talk and what I'm gonna do is. I'm going to post up some some podcast where if you did talk to me on that day. Here's exactly. What I would tell you. If you guys are with divorce papers this morning interesting here, the ten things I would tell you to do before dark today. If you went in your kid's room and found drugs in his sock drawer here, the seven things you need to do right now today before the sun sense. I mean, if if you did get to talk to me, let me tell you what I would tell you. Well, you, but you might not know my exact situation. Now, there are some things I'm going to tell you independent of your exact situation. Like number one. They're not his friends drugs. I don't damn what he says those are his drugs. They're his sock drawer out, you believe that for a minute. And given that here's what you need to do second. And then you know, we just go from there. These are things that I would tell them when I've told people I'm going to do that they're like win. So they I think that's going to be interesting to people as well. We're gonna talk to some couples. About you know, just being couples. So we can do a lot of different things that I think have been done. Yeah. It's cool. Sounds like you're giving yourself a lot of room to kind of go where you wanna go and do different things different formats. That's great. And I also heard that you're going to do it true crime podcast, which seems perfect for you. With your jury selection experience I collagen and spent a lot of time in the legal system and. Said I did clinical and behavioral medicine when I graduated in you do your internship program. I did mine it to be a medical center in Waco, Texas. And then I did a year's post postdoctoral fellowship in forensic psychology. And you know, when you do psychology and the law. It covers everything from. Working with the cord on custody situations, fitness of apparent of whatever all the way through making determinations of sanity in murder cases is this person. Fit to be tried was this an irresistible impulse or an impulse not resisted. And that distinction is distance. Few different words, but the difference between an irresistible irresistible impulse in the impulse dot resisted can mean the difference between the death penalty or go in home in a very short period of time. And so. Of of done forensic evaluations in a lot of very high stakes criminal situations. And we've done a lot of crime shows here at at Dr Phil we've had murder cases reopened. We've had. We've had cases we've done where based on what we've done people have been arrested and charged and. I've worked with law enforcement extensively for years and years of strong law enforcement advocate. So I've come across some intriguing. Crime stories, and I'm I'm going to not just describe them which a lot of people do and do very well. I'm a big fan of some of the crime shows that are out there. But rather than just describe the crime in in what happened I'm going to analyze what happened from a psychological and forensic standpoint. Because I think people want to know who does this kind of thing. Yeah. You know, we just had Chris watts that killed his wife and two children family annihilated. There have been eighty one eighty one family in islanders in the last twenty five thirty years and people say, you know, Dr Phil who doesn't kind of thing. People say that a lot, you know, who does that when they say that to me, it's not rhetorical. They really wanna know. Yeah. And I'm I'm gonna tell them, and when we do a crime story, I'm going to go inside the mind of the criminal. I'm gonna talk to him about the anatomy of this crime from the criminal standpoint. And let them see what's there because there are predators among us, and they need to know how they think how they act and how to spot him. I think he's going to be interesting. Well before we wrap up. I just gotta ask you do. You have any inkling Oprah might run for president. Would you vote for her? Do you think she's going to run? Well, of course. The safe answer is that you would have to ask her and the second safe answers never say never. But I'll tell you. I don't think so, but I'll say in the same breath. She is much more qualified than probably most people think Oprah is. You'll people ask me a lot. The assay is is Oprah. Like, she seems is she is nice. As is she appears an answers. No. She's not as nice as she seems. She's a lot nicer the camera doesn't really do her just as she is one of the most genuine. Warm caring people that I've ever met you would love her. If she was a gas station attendant or a Senator or cleaning up the room after we laughed or or television personality, it wouldn't matter. She's got what I call a health engendering personality. You talk to her you feel better about yourself than you did before you talk to her. And what people don't know is how intelligent, and Why's this woman is her sense of. The geopolitical landscape and economics and just the hydraulics of government and all she is very well versed individual much more than a lot of people in office today. Many different levels. Yeah. So if she decided to run it would not be a lark. It would not be like, wow, that's out Raphael. People would find out when they started asking her questions that she didn't cram for the interview. Yeah. Was like more about what's going on in this world. And then she ever talks about you have any interest in being running-mate, absolutely. Absolutely, none. I would be for that be happy to carry her briefcase or happy to support her in any way. But me and politics. Dole mix aren't man. Well, once again, folks, can listen to subscribe to the podcast fill in the blanks now, that's P H. I L just a reminder on apple podcast, Google play Stitcher or wherever you like to listen. And you can of course, watch the Dr Phil show weekdays on your local station. Dr Phil McGraw, thanks for talking with me. Thanks for having me. I really enjoyed this me too. Thanks once more Dr Phil McGraw for coming on the podcast. Don't forget to subscribe. And listen to his new podcast fill in the blanks on apple podcasts, Stitcher or Spotify. For more information and upcoming guests. Visit D R fill in the blanks dot com. Of course, the Dr Phil show airs on TV every weekday and you can visit Dr Phil dot com for your local listings and follow Phil McGraw n- Twitter at at Dr Phil. Flat iron school is reinventing education starting with student outcomes with courses in software engineering data science in US UI design plaid iron school stands behind it students with tuition money back guarantee. Learn more at flat iron school dot com slash kick ass. That's flatiron. School dot com slash kick. Ass if you haven't already be sure to subscribe to kick ass news on itunes and leave us a review, you can follow us on Facebook or on Twitter at at kick ass news pod. And as always, I welcome your comments questions and ideas at comments at kick ass, news dot com. I'm Ben Mathis. And thanks for listening to kick ass news. Kick ass. News is a trademark of Mathis entertainment Inc.

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1 - Murder in America: Analysis of Murder and Mysteries by Dr. Phil

Analysis of Murder by Dr. Phil

46:52 min | 1 year ago

1 - Murder in America: Analysis of Murder and Mysteries by Dr. Phil

"This is life or death. I was your age when I went through my shooting. Soy feel a connection to you. No one should ever have to go through. This bullets came in that room. I could hear people in the hallway in my class crying out for help. My teacher came back and it was over her clothes. It's Dr Phil and I'm back with you talking about murder this week but I'm doing something a little bit different. That's one of the good things about podcast. Is I get to talk about what I think you're really interested in and I've really been paying attention to what you've been saying what the comments have been not just on the podcast podcast but on twitter instagram facebook and the fact that we've been talking about murders has really gotten. I think all of you interested in murder in general like is this really really happening more in this day and time or is it just getting covered more. Are we just talking about it more so I kinda WANNA break murder down and analyze it from a psychological standpoint as it relates to you and yeah. I think you're going to hear some very shocking things in the next little bit of time. You're one of those people that likes to listen to things add free you can do that by going to stitcher premium and what's more you can get a Mutt three trial. Just go the STITCHER PREMIUM DOT COM and use Promo Code Phil. That's be H I l and you can listen to all of my episodes and free. Are you just so done with your complicated skin care routine. Yes us well. My wife Robin created peace out. I'm done my sale multi complex cleansing Tony to hydrate and balance your skin cleanse your face in spritz peace out. I'm done onto a cotton pad stroke the pad over your skin to whisk away every last trace of makeup and grime and don't rinse it off just order it online today at Robin McGraw Revelation Dot Com. That's Robin McGraw Revelation Dot Com the first question I've got for you is are you capable of Dr Phil. You wouldn't think talking about this but I grew up with three sisters and a wife and I want to talk to you about taking the coloring of your hair at home to the next level with Madison Reed you deserve Gorgeous Professional hair-color delivered to your door for less than twenty five five dollars. Now for decades women have had two options for coloring your hair outdated at home color or the time and expense of a salon now women love the results gorgeous shiny multidimensional healthy looking hair mass in read delivers gray covering game changing color. You can do at home and look as if you just came from the Salon. Now this is quality. It's convenience and it's affordable and you're going to like this enough that you're gonna be telling all your friends about it. 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That's just packed with peptides peptides that take away puffiness and Brighton dark circles just pat on a tiny bit of dot your I's and watch signs of that screen fatigue disappear. You can get it now. At Robin McGraw Revelation Dot Com Robin McGraw Revelation Dot Com all you knew parents out there who want the best for their kids and are tired of choosing between what's best for you baby and what's best for you budget. You have to check out Hello Bello it's the new brand with premium ingredients from my son's good friends Kristen Bell and Dax Shepard that includes diapers wipes shampoo bubble bath even bug spray well. It's just basically everything for you. Baby be best of all. It's really affordable now. I've personally check this out and it's amazing but don't take my word for it. Check it out yourself. Read the labels. Their motto is Hello Bello Goodbye bad stuff and they mean it also feel l.. Half off the diapers are use lotion and you will be truly impressed. GO TO HELL DOT COM for a subscription that will be delivered straight to your door or go to any WAL MART OR WALMART DOT COM to get your hello. Hello Bello Dot Com. Tom Walmart Walmart DOT COM. Hello Bello goodbye bad stuff herder think about that. Are you capable of murder. Do you have the traits and characteristics of a murderer. Would you be surprised if you did. How many times have you said in traffic? I could kill that guy. This makes me so mad. I could kill him. You don't really mean that right. I mean nobody really means that when they say it but is that a gateway the murderer is that where people lose control and actually do murder someone or is it a whole different path of pathologically that leads to that so keep in mind. Are you capable of murder a I promise you I'm talking to somebody right now. That's going to commit a murder a highly suspect. It's not you but one among you statistically is going to commit a murder because one happens every twenty nine minutes in America and one happens every sixty seconds globally. That's a lot of US killing one another and I think it behooves us to take a minute and stop and think about why so who commits murders in in America well you might be surprised to know that only fourteen percent of all victims are killed by strangers where somebody just up and kill somebody. They don't know they need them on a street. Kill him in a back alley. Shoot Him in the commission admission of another crime. That's only fourteen percent. Fifteen percent of murders are committed by a spouse or a family member. Did you think about the next morning. My parents will be dead. He think about that. When you look across the dinner table and thirty three percent are committed by acquaintances people you know but you're not in an intimate relationship but they know you well enough to kill you and and that's why I always say situational awareness is critically important? Who Do you have in your life? Trust me a fair. Amount of this population right. Now is mentally unstable. Take a minute think about the people in your circle think about the people in your life think about the people at work that you just think there's something not right about him or her think about alkyl bob think about whoever's around that you look at him and you just think I'm uneasy around this person well. A third of murders are committed. Committed by those people. I'm talking about right now. People that are acquaintances. You don't know him well but you know well enough to know. There's something not right. That's where most of these murders take place and then thirty three percent are undetermined. Can't we don't really know what the relationship is or how they cross paths and you might be very disin- heartened to know that forty percent of the people that commit murder in America stone cold. Just get away okay with it. Forty percent of the murders are unsolved and we'll have all this technology now with D._N._A.. And fingerprints and all of this but the resolution rate in the sixties was almost ninety percent in the nineteen sixties almost ninety percent of murders were solved but yet here we are with all this technology and twenty nineteen and only sixty percent of murders are solved now. That's just a little over half that means you kill somebody your chances of getting away with it or about half. That's just not right but that's what the statistics tell us now is that relevant to you and I well in the last year that we have full statistics which is twenty seventeen seventeen two thousand two hundred eighty four murders or non negligent manslaughter took place now the reason they combine those is become non negligent manslaughter means. You killed somebody on purpose. They don't call it murder because there were some mitigating circumstances circumstances but murder and non negligent homicide mean. Somebody died on purpose. You did something that caused somebody to die so they lump those together seventeen thousand two hundred sixty four now. Why why do people do it think about taking somebody else's life? That's a big step right. It's a big step for two people the one that gets killed and the one that does the killing because you have that hanging over your head for the rest of your life you have to live with that the moral weight of having killed someone else. This is a big decision. So what is it happen so often well. Let's talk about that psychologically for a minute and we're gonNA talk about profiling later on my experience has been that people tend to resort toviolence when they run out of socially acceptable ways to express themselves the think about what I just said people resort to violence when they run out of socially acceptable ways to express themselves they run out of words words they run out of arguments. They run out of ways to deflect. You always say don't mess with a wounded cornered animal. They're very dangerous. It's the same thing with social animals us as human beings news people tend to resort to violence when they have no other alternative they're frustrated. They're out of other ways to express themselves to defend themselves to get out of the trap. They see no other alternative. It is typically typically an extension of rage. It is often extension of frustration. It always is an extension of poor communication because let's face it. When you kill somebody the conversation kind of dries up right? There's not a whole lot left to say and it is an impulse thing now. There are premeditated murders but most people aren't real planned for about this oftentimes they are when it involves a spouse intimate partner. That's where premeditation takes place but generally these are impulsive. All save axe and rage and revenge are often at the core of why someone murders another person. That's why in most cases they're known only fourteen percent of strangers. The vast majority already are known forty eight percent there either acquaintances or you're in their family so it's rage and profiles will tell you when they look at a murder scene reveals the person's personality and their motivations nations now the question is is this really happening more or because of the Internet. Are we just getting more coverage. Do we see it more well. The answer's yes and no there was a sharp rise in murder rate after nineteen sixty three and it peaked between nineteen seventy and the early nineties and now it's back to the nineteen sixties rates which is really quite high actually so it's it's not just talking about it more. It is quite high and as I say globally it's one for sixty seconds. So how do we rate as a country well globally. The rate is six point two hundred thousand in America. It's four point nine per one hundred thousand you think well then we're doing pretty good globally well. That's true until you compare us to other civilized nations for example if you compare us to Austria Germany Germany England and Scotland there all at or below one per hundred thousand and we're at four point nine per hundred thousand so we're almost four times the average of developed countries trees where they have laws and rules and civilized society. It's only when you get into third world countries where things are less civilized and people are more dealing with brute force and much less socialized in their hierarchies. Do we come in below the average if you compare us to other civilized nations when not doing very well at all. Are there hot spots in America where it's high yeah now it's true there are dangerous. Cities in America just based on statistics. Saint Louis is number one Baltimore number two New Orleans three Detroit number four Chicago is closing the gap really fast in fact Chicago Argo accounted for fifty percent of the increase in murders in the year twenty sixteen and they haven't let up when the new stats come out. I think we're going to see Chicago right up there at the top. The questions aren't just that they're high in violence. The question is why why are they high in violence. What's going on so it's happening a lot in America and there are hotspots and the people are doing this out of frustration now? It's been a lot of theories about whether or not this is being Egged on by these violent video games. We've got our kids and they're playing these games where the controller is a gun and they're blowing blow peoples heads off in glowing people in half throwing grenades shooting people down with automatic weapons and so the thought is we're modelling this. This is in practicing for real life so they're using all these violent video games and it's going because him to be violent in society. I hear parents say that all the time factor the matter is statistics. Just don't bear that out. Sorry mom sorry dad but violent video games do not predict that child is going to go. Oh out and be violent in society is actually some evidence that it may be Cathartic that they may get those impulses out in a fictional way instead of doing it in a realistic way so I don't necessarily think the Games are therapeutic but they're certainly no evidence that suggests that they're shaping people into being violent in society now what we've been talking about our murders that are just individual murders which talking about one person that murders another person. person but what really has grabbed headlines and I know you know it is school shootings and mass shootings now. You're going to fact check what I'm getting ready to tell. You and I invite you to do so because what I'm getting ready to tell you is staggering so far in two thousand nineteen there have been two hundred and twenty two mass shootings. That's in the first six and a half months of this year. Let's talk about how we define a mass mass shooting a mass shooting described as four or more people shot but not necessarily killed in one incident excluding the perpetrator at the same time and location in a public place and this excludes foods terroristic attacks gang-land shootings drug related shootings. These are where someone without that kind of an agenda terrorism gangs a gang war or a drug war her go in and start shooting fellow citizens there have been two hundred and twenty two mass shooting so far this year between twenty thirteen and twenty nineteen there have been two thousand one hundred and and fifty seven mash shootings and that has resulted in two thousand four hundred and fourteen deaths and eight thousand nine hundred and sixty four wounded people that's staggering right and we're separating mass shootings from school shootings in twenty eighteen last year there were twenty four school shootings and so far this year there has been one per month there there have been eight school shootings so far in the first six and a half months of twenty nineteen that just seems unbelievable does it not America sees roughly one shooting a day and the Las Vegas Strip Music Festival shooting on October. First two thousand seventeen was the deadliest U._S.. Mass shooting where fifty nine people were killed. We just kept hearing gunshots in gunshots. I knew I had got shot. I just went down. I kept saying I have to get my friend to get her thought. I was going to die and I'm so glad that we made it out alive because it could have been so much worse. Those numbers are obviously concerning their staggering. No one would think it's happening that often either in school shootings or in mass shooting so the question obviously follows. WHO's doing this? What's causing it? The truth of the matter is there are some consistencies in almost all cases cases their men very seldom. Do you have a female mass shooter or school shooter now. There have been some exceptions. There was a female shooter in Santa Barbara but in most cases for example apple the F._B._i.. Did a study that published in twenty eighteen studying fifty active shooter incidences between twenty sixteen and twenty seventeen and one hundred percent of those were male. who were these males well fifty fifty seven percent of them were single twenty? Two percent of them were divorced or separated which means seventy nine percent of these people were unmarried. They weren't in a relationship where there was somebody there to to monitor them. Check them have some way to put their finger on the pulse and see what was going on. They were living alone in most cases and they certainly weren't interactive relationship sixty three percent ed white and so is the population most shooters in this is the important thing to think about most of the shooter's had what are called concerning behaviors and these are behaviors that are exhibited leading up to the acts of violence the actual shooting the attacks and the concerning behaviors fell into four categories one abuse they were abusive harassment. They had been harassing someone they were showing bullying behavior and they were showing acts of violence in some way but short of shooting someone now a third of them had been convicted of a crime as an adult which means they were in the system by by the way having been convicted of a crime as an adult. They were already in the system. They were on the radar of law enforcement so we know they're not unknown to the police and this abuse harassment bullying thing and violence was present two thirds of the time so this is a significant thing. You've got people that they always say always just like a nice guy. That was just kind of invisible. That's not true. That's a myth. These aren't nice guys. Just come out of nowhere aware and do this. These are abusive harassing bullying violent people that are making noise that people aren't reacting to they acted oppressive way as the bullying is excessive and it's often in the workplace where they're harassing other people which means there are those around them that they're interacting with which are seeing this behavior. Sixteen percent are involved in intimate partner violence means that they have gotten physically violent with their significant another but that's only sixteen percent because as I said most of these people almost eighty percent are not in a relationship and eleven percent have made somebody's radar for for stalking someone so these are people not in the background. They're out there making waves. They're making noise. They're getting attention and when they go back and look at the shooter's on an average they've exhibited zip it. At least five of these acts leading up to the shooting and Ian Eighty percent of the cases at least one other person knew what they were going to do before they did it now. Think about what I just said. In eight eight out of ten cases they had told signaled Massey's written in some way another person. I'm going down there tomorrow and shoot in that place up. I'm going back to my job where it was fired. I'm going to the post office. I'm going to school. I'm going to the mall. I'm going to the nightclub where I've been rejected whatever they've told at least one person what they're going to do and win. They're going to do it oftentimes. Sometimes this gets on the radar of law enforcement and still it's not reacted to why because oftentimes threats are not carried out more often than not they're not carried out but still in eighty percent of the cases they've told hold at least one other person what they're going to do in sixty some odd percent of the cases they've told two or more people what they're going to do and by telling them what they're gonNA do. I mean is blatant as saying. Don't go to work tomorrow because something bad's going to happen. I've had it. These people are going to pay. Don't go to work tomorrow. You don't WanNa be there where they flat out. Warn somebody. You don't want to be there tomorrow. Because it's going to get bad is going to get ugly or they flat out outshone somebody their guns their ammunition. They're drawings their plans that they're going to go shoot the place up and eat or the person does nothing about it or they tell law. Enforcement and law enforcement doesn't take. Get seriously or says there's nothing we can do until they do something or it gets caught up in bureaucracy but think about what we're saying here. There have been two hundred twenty two incidences this so far this year here and do the math in over a hundred and fifty of those cases based on statistics. Somebody knew it was going to happen before it happened and nobody did anything about it. That's not good. There's another category that yeah I need to add to this so we can think about it and it's very disturbing. Maybe the most disturbing of all and that's what I refer to as a family annihilate her familia side this is defined as the killing of multiple multiple family members at the same time and in the same location and that means someone goes home walks in the door and kills everybody in the House now this doesn't happen nearly as frequently <music> as do the mass shootings or the school shootings but we're talking dozens of times over the last several years I dealt with one of those this year with the Chris Watts situation where you went home killed his pregnant wife meaning he killed her and the unborn child then he killed his two daughters Strangler and began wrapping her up in a sheet the bill a witness just any of that Bella Washington and asked what are you doing with Mommy. He walks over and takes <hes> C._C.'s favorite blanket and smothers her to death. He annihilated the entire family. oftentimes they then kill themselves in this case he did not and people often look at me and say Dr Phil who does that. Why not get a divorce? Why not run away? Why not do something but why kill everybody? Who does that kind of thing people say that a lot when they say to me? It's not rhetorical. They're really asking who does that kind of thing and I can tell you who does it. There are people that have a history of domestic violence and it just keeps escalating and escalating their often unemployed and they're under a lot of financial strain. Jealousy is often involved. There's often a tipped at separation by the partner that has killed old and the shooter has that thought in their mind. If I can't have you the nobody can there's anger and rage involved and there's often suicide as I've said I've heard many of these people talk about the fact that they want to save their family members from going through the hell of life. They're feeling so defeated their feeling so much in hill that they think my family's GonNa go through the same thing. I don't want Tim suffering the way I am so I'm just GonNa put them out of their misery and that's a very narcissistic and selfish mindset but that's how they're thinking so. Are there commonalities among this. We've talked about individual schedule shooters. We've talked about mass shooters. We've talked about school shooters and we've talked about family. ANNIHILATES IRS and there are consistencies here. There are things and perhaps at the core we you see that most of these perpetrators are males. Most of them are white males and oftentimes we see that there is an element of rage. There's anger frustration gratien and some sense of revenge that's involved in these acts of violence where they feel some sense of justification for what they're doing. They feel some sense of marginalization from from society. Whether they've been fired from their job they've been rejected bullied at school marginalized in some way from their peer group at school so they're on the outside looking in maybe the world has rejected rejected them because they are failing financially. They can't keep their family together and they just feel like they're overwhelmed that somehow or another they're being mistreated and they're going to show them. They're going to get revenge. They're going to go about out some desperate act where people are going to see how much they're hurting. I'm going to show you how much I'm hurting because I'm going to inflict on you. The pain that I'm feeling and when you talk to you profile is particularly F._B._I.. Profiles they will tell you that when they look at a crime scene that one of the tenants of profiling is that the behavior of the shooter the behavior of the killer reflects that person's personality and with that in mind there are three questions that a profiler has to ask when they're faced with the case trying to figure out who is involved in the shooting who the perpetrator is and the three questions they ask what evidence is present at the scene. What clues have been left there number two? What is the motive? Why would somebody do this and then third? Who is the suspect obviously and these people don't do this at random? I promise you when you see a school shooting or a mass shooting. It is not a random act. There's just not somebody driving down the highway and randomly they take an exit and randomly they walk into a business and start shooting. It does not happen that way. It is not random there is a motive and there will be signs of that at the scene. When you start deconstructing the crime crime you will back into what the motive was in why it happened there? There's often a heavy fantasy involvement in how they kill so much of their personality is left at the crime scene and think about what I'm saying. A murder is not a one dimensional thing is not dislike. I got mad and killed somebody. Psychologically murder fills a very complex psychological need and it's usually not for money. It's usually not associated with a robbery or whatever it's usually has to do with personality the psyche the head and there was a case recently where a supervisor was found at work and they were stabbed in the back a hundred times and then they were stabbed in the heart two or three times and then they were covered up with a blanket. What does that tell a profiler and you might think well? The person obviously angry. You don't stab somebody a hundred times unless you are in an absolute fit of rage right. I mean that is a frenzied wild fit of rage. That tells tells you something about the person the fact that they've stabbed him a hundred times in the back as Cliche as it sounds. That's indicative of that person feeling like they were stabbed in the back so immediately. That's that's going to tell me. This is someone that has an involvement with this workplace and involve with his supervisor. That feels like they've been betrayed. Maybe they feel like they got passed over. Maybe they feel like they got blamed for something. Maybe they feel like they got fired unfairly. Unfairly but they feel like they got stabbed into back it is no accident. They stabbed this person tobacco one hundred times and then they turn them over and stabbed him in heart to me from a profiling standpoint. This person broke their heart and they're going to do the same thing and when the frenzy is over when the rages over they cover them up why because guilt sets in there ashamed of what they've done after they've done it which tells me they know the person so I look at all of these things and begin to see a profile is someone that knew the person felt betrayed by the person hurt by the person and that narrows who I start looking four before anybody hands me a list of suspects to start going through when somebody walks into a specific school and start shooting they didn't pick a random school. They have something to do with that school now. The reason I'm saying all of this is because is there a way to derail. These things people often ask. Should we be doing psychological profiling before we sell someone a gun if we sell them a gun at aw there are people who think that we should revoke the second amendment the right to bear arms. I'll leave that up to you but people have said Dr Phil why not do psychological profiling on these people before you sell them a gun. I don't particularly object to that but I can tell you this. We simply don't have the tools we don't have the screening tools to predict who's going to buy gun and committed acts of violence with it. I I know what the psychological tools are know. What all the profiles are? I know what all the personality test are and I can tell you we do not have a psychological instrument that with efficiency with reliability can predict act who you should not sell a gun to he said well what about people that are psychotic. Actually there are large parts of the mentally ill population that is less violent than the general population so you can give people psychological logical test and maybe create some kind of a database that can be used in the future but I can tell you there is no test you can give someone that's going to predict whether or not they're going to take that gun walk into a building and A. and shoot up the people that are into building. If you pay attention there are signs of just gone over with you what some of the signs are these people tend to be abusive. They tend to be bullied. They tend to harass others. They tend to be oppressive and harassing in the workplace. There are people that do have these concerning behaviors but again there are people that have those behaviors who don't shoot the place up. These things make sense after the fact think about the Virginia Tech shooter. The Virginia Tech Shooter was writing Stories Gory Morbid stories that were so disturbing that one of his professors went to the Dean in and said. I'm very concerned about this person. I don't want him in my class anymore. Look at what they're writing. Well look at what Stephen King writes look at what a lot of the horror story Friday the thirteenth and and all of these kinds of writings people right weird morbid gory sort of things and they never go out and commit an act of violence so there's something called post hoc. It's when you come in after the fact and look look into behavior and go well the town fool can see that this person would be dangerous with a gun well that's after they've done something with a gun but there might be a thousand other young men who have written the same sorts sorts of things that never heard fly. It only makes sense after the fact when you know what they've done and you go back and look at what they've written and you go we'll yeah of course we look at what they ride. Would you want that person to have a gun will know no now that I know what they've done but does it predict what they're going to do and the answer is I'm sorry but no it doesn't so we don't have the screening tools that we need to predict this but what we do have I believe Steve is discernment. We do have the ability to pay attention to those who are around us. We always say if you see something say something. I always add a third leg to that stool. If you see something something say something and do something and of course people are always concerned. Are we going to become a big brother society where we are informing on our neighbors. We're turning our neighbors into the police. He's acting weird. He's behaving godly so I'm going to stick the police on. I don't look at it. There's a young man down the street from me. That I really believe is at risk for doing something really destructive for doing something really bizarre. You're I think I'm helping that young man if I draw attention to him and get him help as opposed to ignoring that and him going and killing ten or twenty people and ruining his own life in the process would that young man rather I have called attention to his pain and his hurt before he goes and shoots ten or twenty people or would he rather I ignore it and let him go do this horrible act that he will live down for the the rest of his life in a cage or with the death penalty. I don't consider it informing. I consider it looking out for your fellow man and if somebody is that demented if somebody is that pain if somebody is that marginalized if somebody somebody is that out of control I think we need to pay attention to that because when we break down who these people are who these shooters are we know that sixty two percent of them are struggling with some mental health issue that fifty seven percent of them have interpersonal problems. Fifty six percent of them are discussing the attack. They have a poor quality of thinking forty eight percent have a suicidal Ita Shin and that means they take high risk behaviors. They aren't concerned for their own safety. They're willing to go in there and give their own life to strike back at a world. I think has hurt them. Their work performance has really rooted because has they have taken their focus off of being productive and put their focus on revenge and rage school performance has eroded. They're caught up in anger physical aggression and you see this risk-taking. They're they're waving guns around their showing them off to people they're starting to show impulsivity. They're grooming is starting to fall apart. There are signs where they're falling out of step with society and these things are observable if we know what to look for and we may think we'll I'm not qualified to do that. Dr Phil Maybe you are. You're saying that you're saying well. You can spot mental health problems. If you really are feeling uneasy around some more I'm I'm not saying that you go call the police on him but maybe you speak to their parents. Maybe you speak to their family members. Maybe you speak to the pastor where they go to church. Maybe you do something where you try to get this. I saw the radar but if they're starting to lose contact with society in reality they're starting to breakdown interpersonal relationships. They're thinking is starting to really be inconsistent. They're starting take high risk. Behaviors have suicidal <unk>. This is a person that's at risk for doing something to themselves or others and I think is responsible members of the human race. We need to pay attention to this. The truth of the matter is that law enforcement is restricted. You're so frustrated sometimes when you say he's going to do something he's going to hurt his wife or his children or he's going to do something and they say I can't arrest someone for their state of mind under what I think they're going to do. We think come on police. Get it in gear but the truth is there correct. They cannot arrest someone for what they might be thinking but listen to this. They can't do something but we can as responsible neighbors in family members. We're the ones that see things mom dad. If your young man you're seventeen year old white male is putting together an armory in the basement or under his bed. It's your job to know that you need to pay attention to that and you need to be concerned earned what he might do with that and you need to be concerned about how much trouble might happen if you intervene now versus if you do not if you have a young man that is beginning to behave radically Lee and you're just an avid hunter. It may be time for you to get those guns out of your house you think well I've got him locked up in a safe. Well saves can be opened if you've got someone that you believe is volatile so you might decide to put your rights to bear firearms on hold and take your responsibility to handle your son and put that in the top priority position almost eighty percent of shooters others spend a week or more planning their attacks go to bed one night wake up the next morning start shooting people. They spend a week or more planning their attacks. If you're paying attention you will see something during that week and then there's what I mentioned about leakage leakage eighty percent tell at least one person sixty some odd percent. Tell at least two people there are signs. There are warning signs and I'm giving you the profile now. I'm telling you now how you can spot these people. Will the people most likely to notice these concerning behaviors are the people who know the shooter the best family members co workers and law enforcement depends on US family friends classmates to bring these people to the attention of either the authorities or the helping profession there depending on us. They can't be everywhere. The people in the best position to help are the ones that know the shooter the best because we're the ones that are there to see them start to disintegrate. We're the ones there to see the concerning behaviors that I've mentioned where the ones there to see them starting to withdraw and feel marginalized and plan. We're the ones to pick up on the leakage package and MOM DAD spouse typically. You're on the hit list so you have a stake in this game beyond just what you were young son might do and I keep saying young son because between Twain Ninety four and a hundred percent of mass school shooters are males so that narrows it down for you if you have a young male seventeen eighteen years and up and they're beginning to show these concerning behaviors and your stomach your gut is telling you something's not right act on that and what do I mean when I say act on that talk to them. Reach out to resources as I say counselors school counselors pastoral astral counselors their friends if they have the whatever bearing your head in the sand is not an answer what I'm going to suggest you do is look for clusters of behaviors. If you see one isolated behavior her it's probably not something that's going to send you into a frenzy of concern but you look for clusters of behaviors if you see several of these concerning behaviors and you see the person withdrawing and you see the person beginning to make threats take high risk behaviors all the things that I mentioned and I've mentioned fifteen or twenty different things that are consistent with these young male shooters. If you see see a cluster of these things three four five or more of these things occurring at once this is when you should really start paying attention. Maybe they show one behavior like they're harassing somebody at work okay so they talked to H._r.. H._R.. They get some counseling and hopefully pass that but you couple that up with five or six other of the concerning behaviors that we've talked about now you need to start really paying attention and you need to start stepping up in intervening in some way in in the first place to start is with the person talk to the person they will tell you how they feel if you ask them about it and if what you hear causes you even greater concern now. It's time to go outside and get help out from somewhere else. I wanted to take this break because we've talked about some situations where people have lost their life and we've analyzed that and I'm going to continue to do that because I think it's interesting. I think it's part of our humanity that we need to understand but because so much is going on right now because we have had two hundred twenty two mass shootings already this year rather than just talk talk about specific cases. I wanted to talk about the act of murder itself because it is happening at an alarming rate mass shooting school shootings and individual killings are happening at an alarming rate and when we get back to our series we're going to talk about people that are accused of murder when they're innocent people that have perpetrated crimes in ways that hat are really hard to unravel and I think as we do that is going to be a lot to be learned about human nature and we have some intriguing mysteries and murders coming up but I felt it was worthy of taking time and I want to hear from you what you think about what we've talked about today with regard to murder and we're going to have resources on our website of where you can call what you can do and we're going to list these concerning behaviors these traits and characteristics of mass shooters school shooters and those that are likely to run out of coping energies and commit crimes and hopefully this can raise your awareness and you can spot brought these high risk people that need help before they take tragic tragic actions. I'm Dr Phil What more the Dr Phil Show on the go.

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4 - Beautiful Victim or Killer Wife? Mystery and Murder: Analysis By Dr. Phil

Analysis of Murder by Dr. Phil

54:11 min | 1 year ago

4 - Beautiful Victim or Killer Wife? Mystery and Murder: Analysis By Dr. Phil

"The trial of amber hilling the beautiful bride accused of shoving her young husband through a glass window in watching him fall seventeen stories to his death had all the makings of a must see trial including a gorgeous and seemingly unapologetic defendant who showed up the court not in an orange jumpsuit food but in tight skirts blown out highlighted hair in high heels angers insistence that she was innocent and a victim of long-term abused who had acted purely in self defense the way she looked on the outside and the way she presented herself in court seem to tell a different story a story that ambush family says the media ran wild wings and spun so out of control that the jury never i had a chance to see the real amp. The narrative took on a life of its own and painted amber as fem vitol or black widow of sorts. A sensation lies character of a woman who was dangerously beautiful and in fact deadly to this day ambers family believes believes that what they call this false portrayal of their daughter sway the jurors in her trial. They also believe the jury. Sorry never got the full story in this episode. You'll hear what adverse parents say they believe could have changed everything and you'll appear ever tell her story in her own words. It was the very last time she ever spoke out about what happened before something unthinkable thinkable something. You'll never see come. You're listening to episode four of beautiful victim or killer wife breath mystery and murder analysis by dr phil. Get all your favorite music and your favorite podcasts now on the road with you from spotify your daily drive is a brand new personalized play list of music and news to make your next next commute better. Take spotify for a ride in your car. Today learn more at spotify dot com slash drive. Hey if you one of those people that likes to listen to things add free you can do that by going to stitcher premium and what's more you can get a month free trial. Just go to stitcher premium dot com and use promo code phil. That's p. h. I l. and you can listen to all of my episodes and free amber hilbert being made what many considered a shocking choice when she turned down what prosecutors believed was a generous plea deal. If she had agreed amber would have spent just five years behind bars five years at most because she would actually have probably spent less time because of all the ways that she could have cut down on the actual sentence she received in the plea deal credit for time served good time credits had she taken that offer quite possibly she would be out of prison today and with her now eight year old son levi watching him grow up but instead she made a decision would change the course of of her life for ever amber chose to take her chances at trial and put her life in the hands of jury amber was so convinced of her innocence that she refused to plead guilty to something. She says she did not do so. She could not bear it but at the time amber didn't know how a big of a risk she was taking embers parents say there is so much evidence that no one knows of or that wasn't hurt at the trial and they are sure if someone had truly heard amber story her complete story that she may have walked out of that courtroom a free everyone to raise her innocent child but that didn't happen as i said in the last episode took a jury just three short hours to reach a verdict freddie and recommend sentence for a sentence of twenty five years in prison and the judge upheld the twenty five year term. The irony of emerson's was not lost on anyone amber push josh from the twenty fifth floor of their tulsa condo building and amber. Would it's been twenty five years of her life behind bars. Listen again to the moment as josh fell through the sky. That changed ambers life forever <music>. Someone jumped out their window. Go broke and he fell down dead. Fatal fall from tulsa high rise apartment investigators say twenty three year old joshua hill burling fell l. from twenty fifth floor of the university tower investigators say the deadly plunge was the result of an argument between hair berlin and his pregnant wife amber police arrested and booked the nineteen year enrolled on a first degree murder complaint a witness. Josh came out facing forward. The state says that would mean he was pushed from behind improves over lanes intent. She said she was only trying to get him off her when she pushed him and as soon as he fell through the window she ran to it. She says she went downstairs to where he was enrolled him onto his back and kissed him and was crying hysterical amber humbling and her grandmother we're in a police interrogation room waiting to talk to a detective and they were unaware that we're being recorded parents know yet right. I'm saying if we stay together. I'm gonna kill. I don't deserve to live for the rest of my life. Everyone's gonna think of murder were war will version who could do that. Who could do the needed fall you ooh guilty. Verdict jurors handed down to amber hill berlin. It's at less than three hours for the jury to come back with that guilty verdict for second degree murder in late april twenty thirteen amber sentence was upheld and she would have to wait over a year just to get a chance to retry her case case but she was determined to keep fighting amber insisted she was innocent and could not accept spending twenty five years in prison for an accident that occurred when she says she was only trying to protect herself and more importantly her unborn child but on august twenty seventh twenty fourteen the state court of criminal appeals unanimously denied ambers appeal the appeals court stated any rational trier afaq could find beyond a reasonable reasonable doubt that hilbert links conduct was imminently dangerous and that she events a depraved mind in extreme disregard for human life amber had lost again. It was over and it appeared. She was now out of options. I need to take a pause for a minute to talk. Talk about how this appellate process works because a lot of people. I think misunderstand this when you take your case up on appeal. You're not retrying the case. You're not retrying the facts. You're not getting a second bhai at the apple where you get to tell your story a second time. When when you appeal the case you basically appeal the case on points of law it has nothing to do with the facts of the case unless you you can prove prosecutorial misconduct such as maybe they withheld evidence or show that the d._a. Made inflammatory or prejudicial statements statements and that usually happens in closing argument or you show the prosecution used bias in selecting the jury and that bias can be racial ethnic or religious and on the rarest of occasions you can argue that the verdict was against the greater weight and preponderance of the evidence evidence that the jury has got it wrong has got to be really clear but that is very rare. The only thing you can appeal is if you feel that the court has made data mistake according to the law a mistake of maybe allowing something into evidence that shouldn't have been allowed in or not allowing something into evidence that should have been allowed in or maybe they misinterpreted a case. Maybe they wrote the jury. Charge inaccurately instructed the jury improperly so they gave the wrong definition russian and allowed too much of a document to be read into the record. Some legal mistake had been made that typically. It just doesn't have anything to do with the facts of the case. The record stands as it was at trial in the appellate court rules on these issues a law in this case the trial record stood pretty much as it was at trial and and would only have been changed. The appellate court found that there's been some air made at the trial court level and that just was not the case without that evidence evidence that something had been eroneous handle or the elements that i discussed is a few minutes ago then they're not going to send it back to the trial court level to be retried and they're certainly not going to vacate the verdict and let the person go. They did not find substantial errors. They did not find any the reason to do this so this wasn't that she was convicted twice it was only that they didn't find any major errors or misconduct that it caused him to set this aside now again. I'm not a lawyer. I'm just telling you off the top of my head what my understanding of the process is after spending most of my professional career in the litigation arena but be that as it may as i say she lost her appeal but ambers parents rhonda and brian refused to you give up even if the courts wouldn't see it. They were determined to show the world a different side of their daughter aside. They knew and love a daughter who was nothing black. The husband killer had been portrayed as in the media because of social media being a a worldwide event. You could move at australians. You couldn't have got a fair the trial our systems broken. It's broken. It was written a long time ago and it isn't for modern technology facebook and twitter later on instagram worn around no one in this world to get a fair trial when everyone can go home and read this stuff and and have news stories about it. We were on every channel known to man. That's why ambers family asked me to sit down with her from her new home behind bars and listen to her story top to bottom in a way they felt the jury never did they truly believe that if i sat down with amber face to face from behind bars and she could say whatever she wanted without restrictions or risk and they were sure that if she did that not only would i believe her story but that the millions watching would believe their daughter is well. I made no promises but i did agree that i would hear amber out and i would give her a chance to speak occur truth and i was examined the case objectively. I wanted to hear what amber herself had to say. In an environment outside the courtroom where every every move she made was criticized she had already lost her husband her freedom and the chance to be a mother to her son levi. What would tamera say to me when she literally had nothing left to lose but amherst parents weren't the only ones standing behind and still fighting for their beloved child dial. It's important to remember that joshua's parents and family suffered the ultimate tragedy and not only did josh's death cut them to the the very core but what amer was accusing him of hurt almost as much joshua's family believed amber was slandering their son and doing doing so when he was no longer around to defend himself thanks to her even though amber seven-day trial was over the he said she said ed continued outside port as amber claimed. She didn't deserve her twenty five year sentence. Josh's mother jean said quote the trial was fair. The evidence presented convinced the jury to find amber guilty of second degree murder. Accusations have been made saying our family really set out to have amber charged with murder. That's nonsense. We supported the plea deal the d._a. Offered amber to plead guilty the deal would have allowed timbre to spend as little as two and a half years in jail and be home on parole to raise her child. We felt that deal would show her mercy the and allow her to walk her son through the doors of school on his first day yet amber refused the deal offered ambush family accused josh domestic abuse. He sustained two concussions a broken finger a chip to and eventually a huge and deep laceration requiring hiring stitches and staples to close from amber hitting josh with a floor-length. Mrs whitlock has accused josh of being discharged from the air force for manufacturing and selling drugs is that were true. The air force would not hip given josh and honorable discharge. The defense stated joshua was was a drug addict yet. The autopsy revealed there were no drugs or alcohol in his system at the time of his death in our family is striving degree and move forward. We have no interest in harboring resentment or ill feelings towards anyone. We wish amber the best. Levi has lost both parents. The hopes dreams goals at joshua. Held are gone from this earth forever. I forgive amber and her family end of quote. Well ambers members mother. Rhonda wasn't hearing she insists to this very day that her daughter was not the aggressor and she didn't appreciate josh being painted as is the victim in the relationship and ambers mother insists. She isn't just facing these feelings on what her daughter told her he's basing it on in fact what rhonda and her husband brian had to say in response to joshua's mother. I understand that she didn't want her son to look bad. As any mother i as a mother of six i understand you want to perceive your kids as perfect and that they would never her her a woman but he did and he even admitted that because the facts don't lie amran joshua's marriage was less than perfect josh josh was a very abusive manipulating controlling drug addict neighbors started complaining of him going out hardy and when strip clubs and lars leaving her out of the picture shortly after they were married. Josh amber moved to alaska when amber got up there. We found out amber josh. We're arguing. The place had been called several times. Josh ambers arguments were becoming physical amber was being slapped kicked thrown against the wall even even trying to break her breast implants with his hands to make matters worse not only. Did we find out that josh was using drugs but we found out he was dealing doing drugs as well. She would call crying because you know a plate was thrown. I wasn't happy with dinner. <hes> <hes> a slap on her leg. She had bruises on her breasts. There is a window that was broken in the bedroom just an hour before the basket and broke the window. This incident ambers mother mentions in alaska is not in doubt amber did file a complaint on january second twenty eleven an in josh admitted to police grabbing ambers brass before she ran to the neighbor. Rhonda also stated that josh had been kicked out of the air force for drug abuse abuse. I myself did get a look at a copy of the discharge. While much of it was hard to read the part that was legible did say they drug abuse in ambers parents minds the abuse in alaska the constant arguing after moving back to tulsa josh's anger towards amber we're on the day of his fault and a photo of a bruise and scratches on amber shoulder and of course the other broken window that day all pointed into a pattern of abuse with amber as the victim rhonda was furious because she felt these facts were all turned around on ember or just ignored snored. It was amber who had called the police on josh. It was josh who was on drugs not amber and certainly never eric ambrish parents. Never in a million years thought something like this would ever take place in fact it was a shock. Their daughter was even in in this situation to begin with amer came from a good home or parents. Were loving in successful. Her stepfather was doctor. She had grown up with everything she needed and love. How could there ever be a circumstance under which they're perfect. Daughter amber could end up spending much of her adult. Life locked behind bars. Ambrish parents knew she was taken down to the police station but they believe only as a witness and they thought since rhonda's mother gloria was there oh she would protect him. They said amer was super. Close with her grandma and her grandmother knew all about amber being abused by josh they figured grandma emma with backup amber story to the police and amber would be released and free degree never in their wildest dreams never in their our worst nightmares. Did they expect their daughter to be arrested or charged with anything. Let alone murder. Rhonda believes her daughter statements that were recorded in that interrogation room. Were taken out of context to drive a different story a different narrative than what actually happened never were there news reports of the other lines amber said showed her sadness grief and self blame for what they believed with an accident accident. Here are some things amber said that didn't get much attention. They just want to know if he knew he was gonna die. Mortgages the thought that he could get himself to install it was pleased. Catch yourself. You could just go back the josh yeah. I think you will agree that. Most people hearing e._s. can understand this was an emotional woman for lack of a better term freaking freaking out that she had just accidentally killed her husband. This wasn't some kind of confession that slipped out because she didn't think anyone was watching senior. List ambrish parent say for two years the media pushed the story quote rich kills military hero and then pushed stupid but the truth is they saw it was a drug who was kicked out the military was accidentally killed by a seven months pregnant tiny girl aw through an incredibly thin last winter they say in the couple short marriage the police have been called several times by amber not josh which they say the jury didn't hear any of these facts and had they heard any of these facts had they heard all of these facts would that have not been basis for at least reasonable doubt in fact ambers family has a laundry list of things they believe unfair during ambrish trial the fact that josh's drug history was not being introduced the fact that the media tainted the jury the fact that josh's father testified testified. Josh was going to leave amber implying that was motivation for her anger. When in reality josh's text messages showed no sign he was planning leaders pregnant wife and the protective order. Josh filed against amber was allowed ambrish family said the protective order was something amber and josh laughed laughed about together and that they did this to appease his family by allowing that protective order to be brought up in trial the prosecution acution was enabled to infer amber had been abusive in the past so abusive that josh was scared enough to get an order of protection but still will no mention of accusations about josh could be presented without opening up a huge can of worms about all the bad things amber was accused of doing while they're list was long. One thing at the bottom struck me in particular. It was the reference to ambush white tank top. Being a spouse beat her sure that i have to say i've spent a lot of years at trial. I've heard a lot of things argued. I've heard a lot of words debated and i the thought including this in this trial was outrageously majority of i thought it was outrageously. Prejudicial again ambers family. I felt that the justice system had worked against amer it has basically silenced her and they wanted me to be the one to allow her to speak her truth a flute oklahoma and sat down with amber at the mabel bassett correction facility and she was eager to share her story for the first time. I want my side of the story out. I want all things that the jury wasn't allowed to hear that the judge ruled were inadmissible. I believe that if they were talked about in open court then i don't i. I don't believe the jury would have convicted me if i accomplish anything. I want to accomplish them. People here the truth that trial the picture was painted that josh was is just an innocent bystander and i was crazy pregnant violent woman that ran up and caught josh off guard and killed him. They weren't ever ever allowed to know the real story of the violence that had taken place on several occasions before in which he had been abusive along studying this case. I've read the entire trial transcript so i know the story the jury heard and it's important to realize that not only did these twelve people not believe amber number but they thought she deserved a sentence of twenty years longer than the original plea deal offered. Her amber needed to say something differently if she planned to change anyone's mind if she was going to tell me the same story she told in court i mean come on the tried and true. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. She wanted a different opinion. She was going to have to tell a different story and i don't mean one that was made up. She needed to tell as paul harvey used to say the rest of the story. I told him where she was going to have to take a different approach auteur. 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I knew there was something amber was not telling somebody and it wasn't just what the jury heard or didn't hear it went beyond them for some <hes> reason. Her story was not resonating. How had someone who claimed she was. The victim been painted as such a villain and if amber was telling the the truth. I wanted to help her present her story in a way that people could understand. I have to say i am. I'm a fan of the jury system. My belief is that the jury tends to get right. I've often said they have a collective. I q of at least he's twelve hundred and that's a lot of brain power and when they have no skin in the game when they are objective and they bring all that collective brainpower. They're going to come to the right decision based on what they hear now. The operative part of that statement is based on what they hear. I've i've heard so. Many people say how in the hill could that jury not convict o._j. Simpson well the people that are saying that heard a very different different story than the jury heard. They heard the story that was told in the media. The jury didn't get to hear a big portion of what you and i heard they got to hear just what was allowed into the court record and that record excluded a lot of evidence. Trust me a lot. The things that we heard loud things that we read that made it pretty clear what was going on. They simply didn't get to hear. Most of this. Evidence was negative towards o._j. And based on what they heard and based on what they were asked in the jury the room they probably got it right and i don't mean they were correct and finding him not guilty. I mean the prosecution. Russian didn't meet their burden. That's the issue here. Did they meet their burden and when you get back into the jury room you get instructions and definitions of what a can't that's been filed against a defendant include it might have five elements and they say do you find. This element has been proven. Do you find that this element has been proven. Do you find that this element has been proven and only only if you find that all five elements of a charge have been proven can you then check guilty and if one of those five <hes> elements hasn't been proven then you have to say not guilty so depending on what they heard and whether whether or not the prosecution met the burden of proof to answer those specific questions that define that charge then they. I have no choice if they're following the law but to answer the way they did. Did they get it right in saying he was not guilty. No did they get it right in saying the prosecution did not meet their burden of proof probably given the fact that what got into the record didn't meet the elements of the charge. The most important question amber needed to answer was the question that this entire case centered around um. Did you push him out the window. Now i guess you did i didn't you did push him out that window. Did you push you. I pushed him off off of me and he fell out the window trip backwards and fell out the window a there is no question that she pushed him and that push bush led to his death. The mystery lies not in the question of did she push him or not. The mystery lies in the intent took that push. Was it a push in self defense. Was you push in anger. Was it a push with such reckless disregard as to be intentional so i asked her again. Did you push him and i wanted to give her the but for test chest but for pushing him. Would he be alive today. Maybe not maybe he would. A lot of things played. Wait into that day. I mean i could have gotten hurt. Who knows so your push was. The first link in the chain went him on that eight. Wait for parking garage therefore they leads to be beat leads to c. c. h. D. is dead. She was but for you pushing him. He's not understand. That's why you're here in asking her but four. I was showing that ambush. Push was the first link can the chain and she needed to acknowledge that and when amber made the connection her answer changed at this point amber was emotional national seeming to drop her guard a little and tear amber was clearly still feeling guilty but was it the guilt to someone who committed murder or rather the conscious of person who never wanted this and now has to live with unintended consequences. You've got it like that and maybe called me out on what's going on in my head. Let's let's go to that day. Had you said you wanted a divorce. Amber would clarify that the main argument at the time was the fact that josh was going to tennessee with his friend for a concert tour an amber did not want him to go. She says she knew josh was also planning to start selling pills again. Amber said josh considered it an easy way to make money and he had done it before while they were dating and was he going back to memphis. You say go to tennessee and a couple of other states some concert tour with his friends and this was in your understanding to do what he was going to start selling pills okay and you said he'd started getting high again head even getting high leading up to this day yes when he went to boot camp. He went through withdraws because he was a full blown drug addict when we were dating he he was a drug dealer this day out that i know the autopsy clean. We just got probably one thirty that acronym mm-hmm we're up all night fighting the bill his decision to go to tennessee because my dad's wedding was that weekend and we were supposed to be in the wedding party one you care erbil tennessee your dad's wedding building we had made up at that point i had asked him to leave a couple of days prior and he did leave and about out to a._m. And he calls me to come pick him up saying he sorry he wants to be a better husband. He was i adda was at a party. I'm sure he had been drinking and spouse away smoke marijuana avenue fighting all night. Did you resolve before you went to bed or just go there. Now we in amer said that woke up the next day only to pick up right where they left off. Josh was still going on this trip and not staying by her decide. Okay so he wakes up the next morning. He's packed up and we see his bag sitting there by the t._v. Sand now. They haven't shipped your stuff yet so you guys are travelling pre light so this pretty much is stuff and you're upset about that. Even though you should get divorced you don't want him to leave. I want him to make better decisions. Obviously our priorities were different. I i wasn't going to get him to see that okay so this is the t._v. And the windows so he he was around the television in front of it standing up and when he was standing up <hes> what was it that you said to him that made him turn on you and grab you start talking about how he was really leaving and i was going to go to the wedding leading by myself and it just escalated you say he grabbed you around the shoulder. What was it you said that triggered him to lunge at you. I call them coward. We're those last words he heard from you. Why did she call him a coward because he was leaving leaving. Everything just got too hard and he got kicked out of the air. Force's didn't wanna go find a regular job because he had been in drug dealer before so he knew how much money money he could make levi was two months away from being born and we didn't have a diaper. Did you say i said you're a coward to tell me like you said it for your coward except i was yelling can show you're a coward. I need to hear the way you said it. It's important important. I said you're just a coward except that was screaming and he reached out and grabbed me and i was pregnant and he didn't care allowed. Did you scream loud enough to piss which what i need to hear. Why can't you you do it. Has i'm not angry anymore. I have no anger left in me to have that moment inside you. He likes to chew and you push him off at yes i was there was the broken window. I was still. I was still two or three feet away. People assume we were standing right next next to this window and i should have known better still that far away yes. It was probably two or three feet because i remember having to rush to the window and i didn't see him falling. I just saw him hit the ground he was leaving. You seven months pregnant to go deal drugs. That's how i felt show. You're a coward you go back to that moment. Tell me how you said it to him. You're or a coward. That's exactly what i said. He just grabs you. Yes he reached out and grabbed me around the shoulders his face and you told them challenges manhood challenge him. It makes sense. I can see it. You're leaving town and i'm pregnant. I would have no trouble getting up in his face and saying your cower. I would have no trouble doing it. I have no trouble seeing it. I'd inherited from you. That's your story that your story weren't. You really pissed. Who's leaving who seven months pregnant broken one window out of your damn apartment already throwing his childish fit with laundry basket now he's packing up and leaving even with his buddies the only time she tax call them so they families helmet anxious. He was to get away from you to get out that door. I wanted him to grow up friends and have any responsibilities except getting him high and making him think that selling pills it's the quickest way to take care of a baby aw that's not the man expected to take care of me leaving you behind too cowardly to do so you told him i explained amber that for her to have been sentenced to prison for twenty five years the prosecution should have to reasonably convince jury that you could foresee that you're shoving him self defense or whatever the reason it had to be foreseeable that you could push him and he is going going to fall out of that window. The but four-test we talked about earlier now came into play because if what amber was saying was true she was not the first schlink and the chain the first link was josh grabbing her then amber tried to protect herself and her child by pushing him off and he stumbled through the picture frame thin glass window. Josh grabbing amber was actually the first domino to fall his action caused his ultimate death so let's think about that for a minute but for her pushing him he would not have fallen through through the glass. You can't stop there. You have to go further back but four him grabbing her she wouldn't have pushed him and and therefore he wouldn't have fallen through the glass so if you apply my but four-test you have to find that i link in the chain and it appears to me me that the first link in that chain was him grabbing her which triggers her pushing him off which results in him stumbling and falling through the glass you shouldn't be here unless he was standing at that window looking to see if his friends were pulling up up and you ran at him from behind and put both hands in the middle of his back and shoved him out that window face. I i did you do that. There is evidence that they heard fast running feet and then he went out to window did you run up behind him and shove him from behind and push him out. That window blinds closed. The window wasn't even visible so you shouldn't have been looking out the window article. She could pull it to the side and look out now. He wasn't looking out the window so we weren't next to the window when we were fighting. We were a few feet away though evidence to window. There's only one way you push him out that window with intent and that is if he had his back to you looking out the window and you ran up from behind and pushed him out that window. Did you push him out that window. Why did i mean the the injuries that were shown in the picture. Speak for themselves. There was an altercation in which i defended myself shoes shoes on the back of your left shoulder scratches and handprint cut on your hand grabbing the window when i went to look down run from behind pushing so evidence that you did nessie only way you could get out that window. It didn't matter to me whether he pushed him in self defense or you pushed him just because you've just pissed off at him. That doesn't matter to me. You understand what matters to me is is is reasonably foreseeable aw that you push him would pitch him out of twenty five four window to his death because as you know the definition and in oklahoma you'd have to commit an act it is intimately dangerous to another person with a depraved saved state of mind. No regard for human life deprave means evil perverted. This is bad stuff not failed thing for it. Amber wished the jury would have understood this. She felt like her words were twisted against her mm-hmm. I showed amarin note card with all the statements she had made to her grandmother written on it in order. I asked if she really thought a jury would find her. Innocent sent even with the statements being used against her. Her reaction showed wait. Those words held her. She was her own worst enemy. Her own words had been analyzed and critiqued over and over and used to say she was a murderer. I told old amber look. You have to forgive yourself. You have to stop blaming yourself for making those statements. I told her that from where i stood. What she said wasn't bad. What amber look shocked. She was surprised to hear me say from where i stay dan. The things you said don't look bad. I held up the card with the bullet points of all her statements one more time the the very words used to place her under arrest before she could leave that police station and put her where she is today locked away from leva. I looked her in the a- and said i think this may be the card from the very beginning that made me believe in you. The most amber begin to breakdown tom. Somebody understood. I told her these are not the sentiments of cold and calculating murderer. These are the sentiments of someone that has a full full capacity to feel and own and hold herself accountable. These things amber had said to me held way the more weight than what the jailhouse informants snitch bonnie testified amber had said which was killed bastard. Many of you know that among long other things i am trained in forensic psychology and when i looked at all of ambers emotional utterances in police interrogation room what i heard heard was very different than what the police characterize those words to me what i heard her say that i found so telling an important were statements like i'm such a bad person. I don't deserve to live. I don't deserve to be a mother. I'm not gonna go to heaven all of these things that some others viewed as admissions of guilt or some kind of confession. I view is obvious feelings of remorse. These were not the words of a murderer. These were the emotional words of a woman who had just lost it. All these were the words of of a woman that had the capacity to be empathic for the man that had fathered her child the man that she had loved she genuinely humanly cared about this person that had lost his life and she was beating herself up for playing any role in it at all well not for intentionally committing a crime but for just being part of this at all but i did want to hear amer answer one very important question. There was one huge red flag. Did i believe worked against amer in the entire time. She was talking to her grandmother in interrogation room telling her grandmother exactly what had happened. Why did she never wants utter. The words that she had pushed him in self defense the fact that amber never said that in the immediate moments after joshua's death well that just didn't look good. It made her story of self. Defense seem aiken can excuse that she came up with later but when i ask amber about that i believe her. Explanation did make sense look. I don't think it looks bad at all. The work points your grandmother said both struggling assistant conservation for you. Were telling her all these things that were happening in your head you were saying those to be. Your mom should be hurting more of saying we stay together. I'm gonna kill. You never said you were defending yourself. Why not komo news better. She knew what kind of marriage it was. She knew what had been happening in the recent days leading up to this so i didn't have to explain planet though it was blue's catch yourself just want to know what was going through. It'd be knew he was going to die. Just go back if i pushed and that's the key point here amber had no reason to believe that at this could ever happen now if there's a level of negligence if someone wants to say you shouldn't be doing anything physical near a window ndo and you should always know the risk well while there might be some conscious assumption of risks there. There's also the deal that this glass was picture. Frame them <hes>. I've been in high rise buildings all across this country and i can pretty much assume that i can throw a chair at any one of those skyscraper windows and it will just bounce right off hardly even leaving a mark at least. I don't assume that the glass is so thin that it is actually going to shatter chatter and fall to the streets below. Now i always say and said just a few minutes ago that i do trust our system of justice and at that time amber or did have yet another appeal in the works. I believed at the time that is her appeal move forward. There is a shot that amber would have a chance to set all things. She and her family felt had gone wrong right because if you look at intention and you look for c. ability then you have to step back and wonder what was in the minds of the people involved in. I was just not sure. Justice was served here. However i wanna make really clear. I did not think that all of this could be vacated. I didn't think everybody could just go home and josh's death be erased absolutely not but i felt after leaving amer that day as those metal gates locked behind me with her trapped behind them for what could be more than two decades aides. It just made me feel that her case did deserve more careful. Consideration and moving forward should be looked at from a standpoint of negligence now think about what we mean when we say negligence negligence means that you failed to do what a reasonable person i would do in the same or similar circumstances so you have to ask yourself. Would a reasonable person have foreseen that someone could fall backwards through a twenty fifth floor window in a high rise. This is the first time i have ever heard heard of that in my entire life so would a reasonable person have foreseen. This and i think the answer to that is probably no. I think anybody would see somebody this lean up against a window and fall through it would be shocked so i don't think a reasonable reasonable person would expect that to happen and you can say well. It was stupid well. We don't put people in jail for <hes> being stupid if we did i probably wouldn't be here talking to you and you might not be there listening to me because we all do stupid things. Fortunately fortunately that's usually not cry. If what amer said to me is true that her story is certainly a cautionary tale. It's a tale of how domestic violence can escalate so quickly into a dangerous and deadly situation and can ruined so many lives when nobody intended that result as i left that room inside the mabel bassett correctional facility i could already see a small change from amber number. I could see a new ray of light and it was a ray of hope she had spoken with someone who treated her with respect and who didn't prejudge her from all the news reports internet stories and quotes from the infamous interrogation. She was not going to give up. She now could clean clean to the anticipation in chains that maybe one day in the not too distant future. She could get back to her son but the sad fact is that was the last time i talked to or see amber. He'll rolling alive so because very soon this story would take yet another unthinkable. Turn soon for the second time in his his tragic tale of phone call would take place that no parent ever hopes to receive the same call that josh's parents patrick and jean received only a little over five years ago a phone call that says your child has died on monday october twenty third heard 2016 rhonda in bryan received a call from the prison. All that was said on the other line was she is what what happened. How did it happen. Why was it an accident and amber number killed herself. Had she been murdered. I'm going to answer that at all the outstanding questions in this story in in the series finale part five beautiful victim or killer wife mystery murder analysis by dr phil what more the dr phil show on the go. Oh download the watch own app. That's the oprah winfrey network app where you'll find some of my latest and greatest episodes. Now lots of other great shows to discover stream there to all you have to do is download authenticate and you're all set. It's that simple the watch own app they get it now.

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S7E4: Twisted Love: Bringing A Murderer To Justice EP4

Analysis of Murder by Dr. Phil

41:29 min | 9 months ago

S7E4: Twisted Love: Bringing A Murderer To Justice EP4

"Robin always says happy skin is hydrated skin. And she's got you covered with everything. You need to win approve your skin so be sure to smooth on a layer of Robbins. Fifty fears SPF. Fifty moisturizer in sunscreen every single morning and finish every day with Robbins Hydra Quench moisturizing night. Cream before bed so so winter. Proof your skin all day everyday with one stop at Robin McGraw. REVELATION DOT com within forty eight hours. The case of a missing mother ahead revealed itself to be a story of jealousy violence and murder. I had become irrevocably tied to this investigation and it was far from over after interviewing with me for hours. Prime Suspect Marc Castellano knew that the walls were closing in on him. His calm facade was fading fast he said my questioning him was his breaking point. Soon after I left left his family home he turned himself in. When mark called producer to confess to Michelle's murder her family was mid flight already on their way to meet with me they had no idea what was transpiring? They still had hopes that Michelle was just missing. When they're playing touchdown? They received the news. No one ever wants to hear here. The person they loved was dead that she had in fact been brutally murdered and had died at the hands of the person they feared was responsible right from the very start in this episode. We'll talk about that meeting with Michelle's family. What did they know why I had? They been so convinced from the very beginning that this man was responsible. You're listening to episode. Four four of twisted love bringing a murderer to justice. Dr Phil Uh I admire these folks more than you can imagine in a weak- finding out about Michelle's murder they still wanted to come to Los Angeles and meet with me until now mark had been the primary person communicating to the media. The whole story had been told from his perspective and they did not like that. The picture painted wasn't pretty according to him. He was the father of the year while she was essentially an unfit fit mother even while confessing to her murder. That was the story. He was sticking to even while confessing to taking her life if he was still assassinating her character it was now time to hear their side. They he wanted to tell the story of the Real Michelle. The mother daughter and sister that they loved this new development completely changed the course of our episode. I had anticipated meeting a family that was still clinging to hope. Instead they had just been been hit by a tidal wave of grief. When they sat down with me to tape I was incredibly impressed? With with how poise they were given the devastating news. They had just received but I understood why they were on a mission. They were not going to let the world's impression of Michelle be formed by the character assassinating assassinating efforts of her killer. They were going to set the record straight. They wanted to tell the world who she she really was. So I sat down with Michelle's mother Donna. Her brother David and David's wife. Jessica tell me you know you found out about this as soon as we got to. LAX earlier detective. Calling me that I had spoken to yesterday and inform me that mark had admitted that he'd killed her and the they did know the location of the body but they could not disclose it to us at this time so we were all right there on the airplane and we could tell by his face immediately. Took me through. That moment is a mother when you heard. Aw I was looking at David. I could tell that he looked started to turn Pale. And his tone of voice changed and I was just staring at him. And and I knew the worst ducktail and Mahar sank. You know we want closure but you always want to hope that that you're still alive out there of course at hope was gone and they had to be shocked when they get off the airplane and find out what they had found out. Anytime you lose someone you love love. There's going to be grief but even grief is on a continuum and by that I mean if someone is elderly and and they're suffering a chronic illness. You really start to grieving process when the diagnosis comes in. If you're told old someone you love particularly an elderly person has a terminal disease. Isn't that when you're grieving. Starts the minute you you find out that. They've been given a death sentence they've been given a disease for which there's no cure so you have an opportunity to phase into two or ease into it. It stressful it hurts. The loss is the same but you have a chance to wrap your mind and heart around it but further to the right on that continuum when the death is sudden when the death is violent. Twin death is criminal that is the ultimate stress. And when the person is close to your own child or your own spouse then and suddenly it's as though you have no power no control and remember when this family boarded the plane in Houston and they still were clinging to the hope that she was just missing. They landed to find out she was dead so within the span out of a week they had to wrap their minds around I that she was missing to the ultimate news that she was gone on forever but they were offended. They were offended by what he was saying. They were offended by him but they were really really offended by what he was saying about their precious Michelle they very much wanted to know about my interview with mark and the sense I had gotten from him at the time. I knew I needed to be mindful of the family. Considering the pain they were going through but I also knew they. They wanted answers. They needed to know what he had told me for them. It was a step towards healing. Like Pity one in that situation they were yearning for a way to make sense out of the insinkable. I talked to him. I sat down with him in Odessa. Asa did not like what I was here. My training is in forensic psychology and I said to him at the time. You're making a case for your guilt. I said then and finally you snapped and you snapped and you retaliated. And she wound up Seriously injured or dead and I said you need to tell me that right now. Don't wait don't go down there and confessed. You need to tell me that right now. There's a child here in this house. It's hanging hanging. In the balance there is a family that is going crazy trying to figure out where Che's you tell me now. And he paused looked. There was no going back from what this man did. He had taken a mother of two away from this earth. But I wanted to convey to Michelle's family that we had given him the opportunity to admit what he had done to put his family's anxiety and fear of the unknown to arrest to give them closure I'd given him the opportunity to put his son's interest ahead of his own even if he had done something out of impulse that if it had gotten away from him he now had time to be contemplative he now had time to say say I need to think about my side only a malignant narcissist would persist as he was doing. I think he didn't confess to me right there. And then because he felt equal parts. Coward and Cocky on one hand. He didn't yet have the guts to admit what he had done in on the other he really thought maybe he could find a way to wiggle out of this still yet. I think he knew in his heart one hundred percent. I didn't believe him. I think the minute I confronted him about the hard drives. He knew he had lost me a hundred percent. When I sat down with the family I talked to them about the days leading up to the murder? None of her family had talked to her the day she went missing however they had seen her that week because she had gone to see them to visit her brother's newborn by their accounts the shell was in good spirits. She had just started a new job but made it a priority to come over and meet the newest edition of the family. She was excited. They showed me a photo of Michelle with her brother and his newborn presumably one of the last photos ever taken and she's beaming at the camera. She looks happy and proud. Full of life. Not a woman who is marked claimed was strung out on drugs not a woman who had the capacity to abandon her child and her entire family without warning yes she had had had problems in the past. Her family made no secret of this. This visit two brothers. New Baby was particularly special to them because due due to her past drug issues she had missed meeting their firstborn so for her to turn it around like this was a sign that she had made real real progress in fact in recent years she had done nothing but grow closer and closer with her family they they all had to make a decision about what transpired in her life they could judge her for that and see her with fixed beliefs were were they could recognize her real progress. They could recognize that these were obstacle. She had to overcome and overcome them. She did also keep in mind that it is hard to hide things from people who know you best. This was her mother and brother who you saw her mere days before she went missing. I don't know about you but getting something passed my mother. No I'll be like trying to smuggle sunrise by a rooster. She watched everything. And when I talked to Michelle's mother whether it was very clear she was tuned in to her children. She knew what was going on. This was not some spacey mom. That wasn't dialed Dan. She and Michelle's brother knew her better than anyone they had seen her. When she was under the influence and they he knew the telltale signs according to them they saw none of that during her final visit? It seemed like her life was on the upswing. Definitely on the right road except when it came to her on again off again relationship with mark I knew I needed to get into the relationship dynamic between mark and Michelle and what her family told me validated my previous associations. So you knew mark yes. Did you like him now. What did you not like about it narcissistic and when I say that I mean in a strong way but he also appeared that something no way or psychological not right trying to kill himself in two thousand nine people have described him as quote psychotic look his appearance? We always say nobody's good enough for our child right and we just win the lottery if somebody comes along that we think is worthy of them and so it's only natural that we continue to worry about their wellbeing and who they choose they felt Michelle was clearly involved. The guy that had psychological issues. But sometimes when you're so involved with someone or some thing it's like you're living in a monet painting. You're seeing the dots but you can't see the big picture but the people that love you have some objectivity tippety they stand back and see the big picture and they're the ones that need to say. Hey this isn't what you think it is things. These are not right here. I don't doubt that Michelle was smart enough to know that living with mark wasn't going to be a long term healthy choice. I think for her that at the time she did it out of necessity. I think it was a short term solution. She did not want to be in his clinches forever. She felt like okay. He has the right to see his son. I need a place to stay. Hey He's struggling so we'll combine assets and at this time. There was a lot of cohabitation. I talk to people on Dr Phil that had gotten divorces and agreed to stay under the same roof to partition off the house. Essentially because it was the only only way they could afford to split up. Oh the consensus among those. Who knew her seem to be that want? She was more financially really stable. Her plan was to move out and get a place of her own and I think she was very transparent with mark about that in those same MHM sources also alleged that mark knew full. Well that Michelle couldn't wait to get away from him. There would be a time when she didn't need need anything from him and he wouldn't have the satisfaction of knowing she depended on him. Mark was a controller mark liked to have leverage and as long as he had that financial hammer as long as he had that leverage then he felt like that that power gave him the ability to stay in her life like many relationships. There's was a puzzle that her family couldn't fully figure out out sure it was clear as crystal to them. They were an odd pair. They knew they argue. They knew their fights could get loud and explosive but at least at first they didn't know the supposed violence between them. was she violent. Not that I ever saw. Aw Not physically she. was a debater. She would stand her grail and she would tell you exactly what you thought and sometimes not so kindly but and and with colorful explosive sometimes but she never That I knew of would get physically in your face. That was just lahar seats. He'd like to debate. We can't know for sure but it could be possible that Michelle hadn't wanted to worry them perhaps she. She withheld certain details about their relationship. There was a time period when she tried to make their relationship work and her family. I had seen how she struggled as a single mom when he essentially left her only months after cadence. Birth looking for ad free episodes of my podcast. You can listen to every new episode Ad Free only on stitcher premium for a free trial of stitcher premium go to stitcher premium dot com and use Promo code fill STITCHER PREMIUM DOT COM and use. Use Promo Code B. H. L.. My wife Robin Hood such breath of fresh air. And that's exactly what this world needs more of. I'm talking about pollution protection for your skin. Whether you live in the city or the suburbs or even out in the wide open spaces are air is filled with chemicals articles that will aid your skin. microparticles of toxins in the air cause inflammation in this shuts down collagen production in the skin increasing. Those fine lines and wrinkles robin skin care. Products are packaged with powerful antioxidants. That help rebuild Collagen and push back against other kinds of damage is caused by pollution. That's why you need to make Robin McGraw Revelation skin-care Your daily pollution protection from your cleanser to your night cream. Get everything thing you need for healthy firms skin today at Robin McGraw Revelation Dot Com Robin McGraw Revelation Dot Com. You cannot get had it anywhere else. Robin McGraw Revelation Dot Com. The family really didn't see much mark while he was romantically manically involved with Michelle. He didn't WANNA come to family gatherings or go places with her his seemingly antisocial nature was off pudding and really it was a red flag for them for a woman so full of life and so eager to spend time with others he. He seemed like such an unlikely partner. What did she seeing this guy? Her brother recalled it. In addition to being high-spirited where did she was also someone who wouldn't back down from an argument. If something were to bother her she had say it right. Then right there when you you have someone like her with a fiery outspoken personality. And you couple her with someone like mark a man who exhibited his need for control. Well what could possibly go wrong there a lot. It was a toxic combination. No one knew do how toxic prior to murder. She did confide affair she had to her sister-in-law. It would prove to be an ominous. Prophesy your mind ever go to the point that she thought he would kill. I don't know why she would tell me this and I didn't believe her when she told me she said he's trying to kill me. Jessica can you imagine how that would make you feel in hindsight knowing that she felt her life was in jeopardy. They didn't like him. They were aware he had mental issues. But it still a long way to murder couples fight mark and Michelle certainly did but they hadn't thought that all of their problems would culminate culminate in him killing her. We think about this. It seems intuitively obvious when you look back on it. That's why why the old saying hindsight is twenty twenty has hung around so long you look back and go. Wow she actually said it and it happened. But how many tens of thousands hundreds of thousands millions of people have said the very same thing and nothing happened. It's kind of like getting in an argument and saying Oh my Gosh I could just kill him. I could just kill her but people don't really mean it. They don't really think it's going to happen. And I wondered if this family was playing the what if game. That's the game that can drive you insane. What if I had heard her more clearly? What if I had read between the lines? What if we as her family had given her a financial alternative so she didn't feel feel like she needed to turn to mark? What if we had done things to let him know that we were monitoring thing every interaction every step of the way? What if what if what? If but. That's unfair are to hold yourself to that standard. Because what could have happened did and is unfair air to expect yourself to be the fortune teller. I told him I had a phone recording of Mark's confession knowing the graphic pick details on that tape I was very cautious about letting them listen to any part of it but these people wanted closure their attitude was. We just heard that she had been murdered. Do you think telling us something now is going to be worse than that. We have just heard the ultimate I. I thought at the time I guess they're right if anything doesn't fit in your ear. It's hearing that someone has killed. Did your loved one. Anything you say is downhill from that. All three agreed agreed that they did want to know they were about to hear the truth from the man who had been lying to them from the very beginning the man who had taken Michelle away from them they wanted to know. They wanted to be there with her but they couldn't be. They wanted to connect now by knowing what had taken place. I wasn't ensure that it was the best thing to do but I was sure that it wasn't my decision to make. I was sure that they had the right to whatever information they wanted including the information. I had all right if we play some of what you've said for the family because I know they're on their way here and I know they're going to be wanting some answers from you is that all right you have all arena anything anymore. So yeah he can. Aww Fun they just got to realize that they plan to stay time. They were beyond outraged when they heard him say this us. They vehemently denied that she was an abusive mother. She had an older daughter with previous husband. They said and his view of her. The mother was entirely different while he had primary custody of their daughter. Michelle was actively involved in her life. According to them uh-huh Michelle and her older daughter were best friends in fact they said her ex husband knew for certain that something was wrong when he had reached reached out by a text to schedule a mother daughter visit and then never heard back from Michelle according to him. That was totally unlike Kerr. She never hesitated at a chance to spend time with her daughter. She was caring and she was involved while listening to his confession. Her mother Donna also remarked. On how calm his voice sounded it immediately struck them how detached he seemed from the entire situation he was only concerned for himself. His level of narcissism awesome was shocking. And I've seen my fair share of self absorbed criminals. He was talking about this like he was ordering lunch. There was no remorse. There was no shame there was no embarrassment and laced laced throughout it. Even while he was confessing the horrific nature of his deeds. He would take take a break to say something bad about her. It's not enough that he killed her. It's not enough that he murdered her and then hid the body. He still had two Gotcha with Innuendo an accusations. What a cowardly leasing to do when the target is not there to defend themselves? Aw you've also got to wonder what kind of person in a nonchalant tone readily agrees to having their confession Asian played for the family who love the person they killed. That's a complete lack of empathy. He didn't and say you know. Let me think about this for a minute. Can I give you a statement to read to them. Can I give you something where I can express Sir my remorse. My shamed for what I've done. Note that never once did he say please tell them sorry. Please tell them. I pray for their forgiveness. He doubled down on the same excuse that his son and was being abused that she was a terrible mother and that he was carrying out some act of justice for his son that she triggered him by her behavior in a sense this was her fold. He couldn't take his son being abused anymore. By this woman she triggered him and he took the moral high ground and took her route to protect his son. How ludicrous how crucial? We're talking about a man man who just choked the mother of his child to death but to his way of thinking if the family here's upset they're the ones who have to realise why he did it. It's their problem if they can't comprehend why he did. What he did is is he so narcissistic so self absorbed so unable to quote? Read the room that he actually thinks they're going to see his side. Does he actually think they're going to say well. I hate that. He did that yet but I can understand how he got so upset. I can understand how he was triggered. That is incomprehensible to view as I say that but I can promise you. It was not incomprehensible to him. He was so narcissistic felt so oh special felt so entitled that he really thought he could contextualized this trivialize this in some way so that they would offer him some degree of understanding. Now that's just my opinion. I could be wrong. I'm I'm not but it could be. He showed zero regard for the family's feelings he didn't for one second. Consider the pain and horror that they were going to feel so once. They heard what he did to her how he choked her with his bare hands and then buried her corpse all the while while keeping up his dog and pony show that she had hit the road he felt no shame. He wasn't embarrassed that he had lied to them. He wasn't embarrassed that he had taken away. The little girl that Donna had given birth to the little sister that her brother had played with in the yard. He doesn't think about those things. There's another huge reason. Why his excuse of killing in her quote because my little boy is being abused close quotes makes no sense? If you're trying to save your child from abuse why would you commit the ultimate act of abuse just feet away from the Child by killing their mother that does nothing but endorse abuse he was okay with depriving his son of his mother. The stop and think about how now he's asking us to believe to consider to even contemplate that this was an act of protection uh for his son and in the same breath is confessing to the fact that he has killed the child's smother taken away the opportunity or ability for this child to ever crawl up in his mother's lap begin to ever lay his head on her chest to put his arms around her neck to feel her hug him. When she comes home he took it all away because he was threatened because he was irritated? Did he put his needs. His wants his emotions so far above his sons. He was willing to kill the child's mother. It absolutely broke my heart winner. Family told me that right away when she went missing Kayden started asking for her. He had no idea he was never going to see her again. He wanted his mother. He wanted his mommy. He missed her the minute she was gone but for remark. That just doesn't register. It's his world and everyone else is just living in it. Because he wasn't hiding anything anymore for he felt it was okay for her family to know. It just wasn't okay for them to know the truth when he was out to save his own skin. It was not a shocking revelation that he had done this. The family had been weary of him right from. The get-go is helpful to you. Hear his explanation of this does not surprise me we. We were already pretty sure that that he had done something with her at the very least put stowed her away somewhere and just was a mean torturing something but we felt that the gone. This is horrible to hear but at the same time not surprising than her intuition was right. The only comfort I felt that could be gotten from this situation was the fact that now l.. She didn't have to wonder if her daughter was being held. Captive being tortured in pain. At least she knew the truth. I hate the word closure people say well. At least she's got closure. What the hell does that really mean? Get closure when you find out your daughter has has been murdered and buried in a field as just information you have another piece of information. It's another step on the journey. This was a time that it was very important for this family to bond and be together sadly they had the common experience -perience of all losing a family member thought it was really important. They talk about this at they share memories anecdotes folks that to keep the person's spirit alive and it was really important to me that they didn't play that what if game that they didn't go back and say well. What red flags did I miss? You just can't do that. It's just not fair. Maya Angelou said it best. I did what I knew how to do and when I knew better I did better. I wanted his family to know to reassure themselves that had they known had it registered with him at all that she was in danger of being killed by this psychopathic controlling narcissist. That of course they would have come to her aid. They would have called the police get over there right away. Break the door down if you have to get there as fast as we can. But they didn't know that it was important for them to acknowledge except the feelings of sadness that can come with a loss. Bottling up your emotions not facing your sadness head on can lead those feelings down a dark rabbit hole. Grief is not a mental illness and that means it's is not something you can get over. There is no cure for grief. You just learn to accommodate to it. You learn to adjust is to it and by the way it doesn't get better there will be times when the sharp feeling of loss can be just as acute a year later as it is the day you find out about it what we hope. Oh is that those days get fewer and farther between we hope that instead of focusing on the tragic act of her murder instead of replaying that movie in your mind that you begin to focus focus on and celebrate the process of her life. I mean she lived for all of these years and they were so much joy doing so many of those years. The hope is that you can focus on that because you do not want her legacy to be pain. You will have emptiness and loneliness. There's this intensified profound sense that something has been taken from you and that is a a congruent feeling. There's a target for your anger. There's a target for your resentment. You can't get angry at a disease but you can certainly certainly feel rage towards a human deprives. Someone you loved the right to live. This wasn't just a murder victim. She was a beloved loved individual beloved by many. She loved her children. She loved to laugh. She could talk to anyone. Her family fondly. We remembered her beautiful singing voice she loved belting out the Etta James Classic at last even during my interview with her family when their emotions emotions were still so raw they were able to remember the joy she brought them while she was alive. No one deserves his Kinda the fate and Michelle certainly did not deserve it. He's taken away a precious sister sister in law and mother. He's taken away to mutual mother and many friends that she has and we have had so much response of friends we. I didn't know that she had and people who were acquainted with seeing that every life that she taught she made a difference and he's taken that away from on every body when I asked him what they thought should happen to mark pretty. Predictably their response was honestly. I'd like to see him Hong if he snapped her neck. I think that's the nicest way for him to go. I hope that he suffers a hope that I hope I hope he thinks about this every day for the rest of his life how he took her away from her kids. I can't imagine being a mother not being walking like I said I spoken to many families that had to deal with the aftermath of violent crime. This case was one of the hardest. They wanted to go forward with this. Sit Down interview because they wanted to replace the lies about Michelle with the truth. What he was saying with his character? Assassination was so toxic sick. They just couldn't bear for it to be out there unchallenged. For another minute of another hour another day. Even through their pain pain they wanted to stand up for her. They wanted to speak for her. They wanted to give her a voice from the grave they would not let him be the one that labeled her and they did a beautiful job of it. They came with a mission and they accomplished it and there was still more to come on next week's final episode. We're going to talk about the trial of Mark Castellano Castellano. He had a defense ready. And Trust me. It will blow your mind you. You are not going to believe what you're going to hear you've been listening to twisted love bringing a murderer to justice mystery and murder analysis by Dr Phil. I am Dr Phil.

Michelle Mark Castellano Castellano murder Robin McGraw Donna Robin Jessica Robbins Marc Castellano Dr Phil Uh Robin Hood Odessa Asa producer Mahar Los Angeles Houston David Che
2 - Into Thin Air: The Mysterious Disappearance of Kyron Horman | Mystery and Murder: Analysis by Dr. Phil

Analysis of Murder by Dr. Phil

45:56 min | 1 year ago

2 - Into Thin Air: The Mysterious Disappearance of Kyron Horman | Mystery and Murder: Analysis by Dr. Phil

"A little boy has glasses too big for small face smiles into the camera. He's proudly showing off his school science fair project a large poster board filled with colorful photos of frogs but in less than an hour after the flash went off he would disappear into thin air never to be seen again teachers teachers staff police and search teams probed every classroom office and Hallway of Skyline Elementary School in Portland Oregon but the innocent second grader Greater Advani slug a ghost as investigators searched the school grounds police questioned his dad Kaine Horman and his stepmother Terry who claimed the very last time she saw Kyran was when she dropped him off at school and he waved tour from the top of the staircase biological mother desert young immediately had a growing sense of dread. I told my husband we gotta get to Portland when I was so extremely frustrated with the fact that I was four hours away and then I started to panic. Karen doesn't have his coat mm-hmm. Kyron is outside and the Santa starting two sets going to get cold but when I started going over the conversation with Terry and in my head I looked over Tony. Hold me back. It was around four twenty pm nearly eight hours after Kyran was reportedly last seen that his mother desharnais. I learned that her son hadn't shown up for school that day. She got a phone call from the school. The secretary her I thought was that it was impossible. There was no way that Cairo would go missing. He wouldn't wander away or ever leave. Leave with a stranger. This was a boy that was so attached to his mother when he was with her that he refused to leave her side. As she frantically drove from her home. In Medford Oregon to Portland on the opposite side of the state all she could think about was where in the world was her a little boy and as the days passed without a single clue with no sign of Chiron people began to wonder if his stepmother Terri in the last adult to see him before he disappeared knew more than she was leading on as carbons biological parents frantically search for their son. Terry his stepmother's bizarre behavior and spotty story began to have desert questioning what really really happened at school that day you're listening to into thin air the mysterious disappearance of Carbon Hormann. You're looking for ad free episodes of my podcast. You can listen to every new episode. Ad Free only on stitcher premium for free three month trial of stitcher premium go to stitcher premium dot com and use Promo code fill STITCHER PREMIUM DOT COM and use Promo Code P. H. L. Pod Swag is your one stop shop for podcasts merch like shirts hoodies mugs accessories and more you get thirty percent off with code fill thirty. That's pod SWAG DOT com slash. Dr Phil Phil and use code fill thirty three forty six PM on June four twenty ten when Manama County Sheriff's office received a call from the school secretary. Susan Hall Sheet reports that Kyran in has gone missing. This sheriff's Office doesn't take these matters lightly at five thirty. PM Word of Karen's disappearance spreads rapidly sleep through the schools district. Every public school has sent out a broadcast phone message to every registered student that Kyran did not arrive home that day panic begins to ensue among this tight knit community on the fateful day every hour every minute every little second mattered it was all crucial to finding young Kyran at seven PM county sheriff's Detective Sergeant Lee Gossen Alerts Sergeant Travis Gulberg the county's on-call coordinator for search and rescue efforts that they need to begin a formal missing person search for Kyran within the hour the county's public information officer Lieutenant Mary Lindstrom returns calls from members of the media who've heard the broadcast message from the school district and arranges to meet them at Skyline Elementary Thirty minutes later a caravan of news people arrive at the school where Lindstrom briefly updates them on who Kyron Horman is and where he was last seen she makes sure each reporter understands understands the status of this missing person's investigation they also receive a picture of the boy so they can send it to local news stations and the Oregonian the state's most popular newspaper as Portland police officers swarmed the school's halls in search of Carin they scour every closet bathroom and corner because he might be trapped in a place that he can't get out of or worse a place where no one can hear him. During the officers initial search investigators are taking their time to establish a coherent timeline that will help them try to to locate the boy's whereabouts or at least give them a clue as to where he possibly could be now back at Cain Hormones House. He and Terry are grilled by police asked to remember every single detail about that day a day. That seemed like an ordinary one but when it comes to missing persons cases oftentimes. It's the little details that matter a whole lot. Sometimes they're too key to solving having a mystery as baffling as this one even more police officers arrive at skyline elementary for additional help in looking through crawlspace it's short spaces and outbuildings but there's just no trace of the boy not his backpack not a piece of clothing or footsteps to see the direction action he might have been heading in in these types of missing persons cases finding as little as a shoe or a piece of their clothing could at least streamline find the investigation into a certain path a certain direction for example if they had found any piece of clothing his backpack that it would strongly wrongly suggest that an abduction took place and if that were the case they would have taken it to the lab and tested it to find other. DNA reprints but nothing was found. That's why this case was truly inexplicable. As far as what my concern is that somebody else has come into the school was open the the protocol is you're supposed to have only the front door unlocked and all the doors were unlocked and roughly from what I understand about four hundred people came in and out of that school. No badges no sunning in or out now. You might be thinking. How would they even consider that. This child could be a -ducted in a busy school. I mean wouldn't any child yell out. I have to tell you I've had had the displeasure of interviewing pedophile child molesters and child abductors on more than one of Cajun and I have asked them. You have a -ducted children from busy places. You've abducted them from the lobbies of movies uh-huh where people are all around. How do you do it without them. Drawing attention to themselves they have a myriad of techniques many of them say they will punch the child violently in the stomach or the solar plexus to take their breath away or hit them in the throat where they can't breathe for a period of time it keeps them from yelling out for help they then pick them up holdem. Oldham as though it were their own child asleep and calmly and casually walk right out the door in plain sight so is it possible that someone could have abducted him from the school and not draw attention to themselves. Sadly absolutely it's possible predators know how to do it by the time the clock strikes midnight. The police were no closer to finding Kyran than at the moment they started did and this was obviously devastating news for the parents what started out as a few officers checking classrooms and storage buildings has turned into a full scale missing persons investigation in which the Portland authorities had to seek help from outside agencies. They knew they they had themselves a bizarre disappearance and it seemed the only person that could possibly hold a key to the mystery was his stepmother Terri. She told police that she and the boy parted ways just before nine. AM in front of the school office and said she watched car and take the stairs and walked walk towards his classroom but right away. This statement raised a red flag for desharnais. She was familiar with the layout of her son school and she. We knew that if carbon and terry were really standing where Terry claim they were there was no way she could have seen his classroom from that angle. I clarified with her. When I was talking to her. I said to her. You were on the stairs and she said yes. I was on mysteres waving to him and I said to her. That's not possible you can't from that side entrance east end of the the school. You cannot see classroom if he was right next to the door from the top of the stairs you can't there's about a fifty foot distance between the staircase where Terry says she last saw Kyran Down Hall to his classroom. Desert wondered why Terry would say she could see him walking king to his classroom. If there was no way she could have was she lied. It was something desharnais immediately suspected they caned it to the first red flag for me was lying about the science fair and the school that day she lied about where she was positioned when she saw Kyran and at the last place that she saw him the stories I've been told are different than what she's been told so even the day at at the school and what she did at school that day her counts of it to me or completely different but despite her initial suspicions desharnais remained a united front with Kane and Terry very she figured sticking together would be her best chance of finding her son who at this point had now been missing for almost twenty four hours on June fifth the following morning by five. AM The county sheriff's Office calls another search group Pacific Northwest Search and rescue you they were called in to assist the National Guard and the FBI throughout the rugged terrain of Portland's vast mountainous region by the the time. They arrived on site. There were already about sixty to seventy people involved in the search with hundreds more to follow within the next few hours. The Pacific Northwest Search and rescue is a specific very unique organization consisting of volunteers who know to navigate Oregon's woods islands caves mountains hills and shoreline off the back of their hand in other words. They come in handy for those types of situations. It's nine. AM The associated press receives an email notification with all the details surrounding chirons investigation. They publish publish it making this case known nationwide throughout the day as law enforcement and search and rescue teams completed an immediate grid surge urge of the school and surrounding area hundreds of kids and their parents waited inside the school in order to talk to investigators as many as fifty detectives interviewed nearly three hundred students and their parents and they all reach the same consensus. There's no way this boy ran away any of he was abducted. No one saw anything if you've seen any movie about a missing person you can probably imagine what this search effort looked like they had officers from the sheriff's. Office volunteers from eighteen different search and rescue teams members of the National National Guard and members of the FBI they also had friends and neighbors who were looking inside every tunnel underneath every rock next to every tree below every ravine gene inside each cave and through and under every Bush hundreds of flashlights hundreds of boots on the ground even helicopters who had an aerial view you the entire forest and no one saw a think not a trace of this young boy a young boy who reportedly could not see three feet in front of his face they even had dozens of tracker dogs onside especially especially in the rugged areas where it was hard for people to access with Kane Interior permission search officials use some of cards dirty shirts so that the dogs dogs can pick up his sin in as far as they were concerned every time one of the dogs would bark or run to a certain area in the woods. They thought it might have I've been the boy only to find. It was bones of the dead end. Wherever carbon was or God forbid whoever had him. It's absolutely horrible to imagine but they did a darn good job to make sure no one would find. It's now been forty hours since carbon disappeared appeared is adorable. Little face was shown on every local news station and hormone set up a facebook page where people can add updates if they seen or heard anything cain delray and Terri Horman refused to talk to the press. They're just not ready yet. We're not helping investigators search or when they're not answering questions to law enforcement. They're crying all day and night praying that someone someone will find Kyran rent echoing in their heads over and over is that the ticking clock is against him they know Oh with the passage of every minute every hour the likelihood of finding this child alive is going down down Dan Dan while the dozen search team swept through the woods near Skyline Elementary Terry printed out a thousand missing persons flyers of carbon complete with his picture sure the hotline number and a reward for twenty five thousand dollars they contain specifics if carbons appearance three feet eight inches tall fifty due pounds blue eyes brown hair last seen wearing black cargo pants white socks and black sketchers. Those are tennis shoes. They had an orange orange trail friends and neighbors posted that Flyer on every window every lamp post every bill border wall. They could tape it. Two thousand flyers were passed out but police police still had not one credible lead on Wednesday June nights. The county sheriff's Office hold a press conference in relation to Karen's disappearance but there's no good news to report authorities call him a missing and endangered and it was on this day the very same day that police begged the public for help help for this missing and endangered little boy that Terry did something that had a lot of people questioning if she was really the desperate and upset stepmother she had been claiming to be despite Terry crime despite HERP PERP appearing upset and printing out thousands of flyers. She was also about to exhibit some behavior. That did not track get all with what you would expect from a parent desperate to find a child. She had helped raise since he was a baby. It was a move that shifted everything and it was really the first time where both the police and chirons biological parents began wondering if Terry might know more than she was leading on. Terry posted on her personal facebook page quote hitting the gym tomorrow. I didn't get home until eight. PM Tonight seems like a simple enough message but many people saw it as a huge red flag. People wonder what kind of mother figure whose child was missing whose child was endangered would would ever post on facebook about quote hitting the gym well that would be because the law enforcement told told us to go to do told us to do things that we normally do so they want you to go grocery shopping. They want you to go to the gym. The actually specifically told both Canaanite when he was with me that day it just didn't look good Terry May as well have stamped guilty on her forehead but still so she wasn't a suspect guilty of poor taste perhaps but not considered by police the person of interest but this facebook post wasn't the first thing. Terry allegedly did that. The police had some questions about when Carin didn't show up for class that morning both Cain and Desharnais had wondered why the school didn't call them to alert them to his absence. There was normal protocol but it just didn't happen in the the reason why cast another shadow of suspicion on Terry a teacher at the school told investigators. She didn't call carbons parents about his absence because she thought they already knew why she said because Terry had previously previously told her she would be taking car into a doctor's appointment on Friday so the teacher just assumed that's where he was immediately. Police wondered if Terry had warned the school. Karen wouldn't be there to buy herself some time before anyone realized he was gone but Terry was insistent. It was all just a misunderstanding. She said absolutely not she simply told them he'd be missing school on Friday but never specified which Friday it was. The teacher just assumed it was the day Kyron vanished the teacher sure dissed assumed it was the next Friday to come up after she made the comment to the teacher but between that Antares Terry's tone-deaf post on facebook. There were too many questions. Police felt needed to be answered detectives. Ask her take a polygraph test. She agreed she took the test. She failed before we go any further. I WanNa remind and you that a failed polygraph. Does it necessarily mean someone is guilty. In fact it's not even admissible in State Court cain later told reporters Terry agreed to take the polygraph and then came home and Vinnie to friends family and law enforcement at the House that she had failed and the hits just didn't stop coming for Terry after that investigators distributed a flyer with Terry's photo on it asking if anyone anyone saw Kyran stepmother near skyline school on the day the child banished they still did not call her a suspect or or a person of interest. They claim they were just looking for any information they also announced a search for Kyron has shifted from a missing endangered endangered child case to a criminal investigation. Canaan does array who had previously been a united front with Terry well. They began to turn on her. They wondered why she had failed a lie. Detector test they both had taken polygraphs and passed with flying colors at a press conference desharnais claimed and I quote Terry is not taking an active role in finding Kyron. She then pleaded with Terry do the right thing. She was pleading with her to cooperate. Meanwhile police were working to pinpoint exactly really where Terry was driving after. She claims she dropped the child off at school on the day. He went missing. They saw something strange. They saw something unexplained on her cellphone. Records a peeing on Salvi island a large river island just thirty minutes north of Portland Terry had never mentioned being in that area when she detailed her day two detectives. What could she have been doing there. Well Bill Terry insisted nothing because she says she was never there. Are there cavers on the bridge to saw the island one. There's one go over and there's cameras on it and then I was not on any camera. So if you've crossed that bridge you would be on a camera sure car. Show your camera crossing the bridge and we would know win the mean. It's a fairly narrow time and the police have never produced use video of you your car crossing the Bridge to solve the island wrecked. She said the only time she drove outside of Portland that day after eleven. Am was in order to calm her daughters earache. It was possible her sale could have pinged off a tower on the island as she. He drove by the bridge on the main road. If you look at pictures of Salvi Island it's not surprising investigators would want to search the the area or have suspicions when they saw her cell phone pinged. They're the dense woods and deep waters could easily be be the grave of a missing child. A ground team searched the nearby woods while a team of divers searched urge the bottom of the lake and if they're searching within the water what they're looking for is not a child old but the remains of a child but after a full day of searching deepen the islands waters the divers were not able to find anything and the trail went cold once again still despite the fact that they were searching for a body where her cell phone pinged on the day. This little boy went missing police. Were not calling. Terry a suspect or even a person of interest but the sheriff's office certainly didn't shy shy away from indicating to the public that Terry could somehow involved the handed out flyers with another clue. The flyers contained three separate pictures one of Kyran one of Terry and another of mysterious white truck similar to the one Terry drove the morning carbon disappeared. It's not known who this other truck belongs to but it looked a lot like Terry's truck and as the public began turning on Terry detective ask her to take a second polygraph test. Kane said Terry agreed to cooperate but she got up and walked out before the machine portion to the test could be administered according to Cain she then continually pushed back and refuse to repeat the second test for several days. I'm talking eight to ten days before going going to take the test and then once again coming back to the house and revealing she had failed for a second time remember and when you take a polygraph it can come back deceptive non deceptive or inconclusive there are three options uh-huh and only one of them is that you answered the questions in deceptive way she failed a second time meaning and that when she was asked questions about knowledge or involvement in the disappearance of Kyron Horman she denied it and and the results were that she was being deceptive meaning that she either new or was involved wbt in his disappearance according to the polygraph and I remind you again a polygraph is not an exact Zac science. Let's take a break and talk about you for a minute. Did you know that you can take coloring your hair at home to the next is level with Madison Reed. 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That's why Robin calls it shape wear for your face match it with the the moisturizer hydrated skin equal youth for a glowing and radiant complexion with Robbins sculpt and smooth duo kit make every day that special special occasion to make your skin fabulous. Get everything you need for your skin from Robin McGraw Revelation Dot Com today. That's Robin McGraw Revelation Relation Dot Com. One question was was car in the truck with you well. There's a fail right there because is he wasn't a truck with me on the way to school but not when we're leaving so that one. I can't even get right and that was the one that I supposedly failed now. Have you didn't ask me to do he was did ask you do you do do you know who do you know who has him or denote. Dino has some are where he is but the one that was failed was whether or or not he was in the truck with me. At this point the search for Kyron had reached its twenty second day and after the two failed polygraphs trouble was brewing being inside the hormone household the phone rings at the Sheriff's Office. It's nine one one call from none other than Cain Hormann. Asking for police assistance against his wife who he says is threatening him. Cain reportedly leaves his home with Kiara leaving. Terry behind the police tried to defuse the situation but Kane is convinced that it is in in their best interest in safety to get away from Terry at least until they found the missing boy. It doesn't take long for the media to pick this up and she's asked about the explosive fight. Terry denied it claiming that and I quote a rumor that needs to be squelched. Everything's fine but it was obvious to the Horman family the Portland community the media and the rest of the country that everything was not fine terry was under the microscope and everyone's fingers were pointed directly at her curve now including even her own husband's. Terry's reputation went from bad to worse the media was jumping all over her when Terry's father. Larry was interviewed by people magazine on the status of the investigation and whether or not what terry quote did it. He did not miss any words about his daughter when asked if his daughter was going to prison. Larry said he gave it quote fifty fifty odds naturally this did not help. Terry's image in the slightest she was clearly in the hot seat and details of her separation with Cain was all over the press and now her own father is saying Ryan Coin Toss what you would expect father that believed in his daughters say was of course. She didn't hurt a child. I've raised her from a baby. I know her heart. I know her values. She's not capable of that. I stand behind her. One hundred percent look somewhere carols instead he says yeah fifty fifty for Kane the suspicious and erratic behavior from his wife life well it just became impossible to ignore gone was stepmother who was crying all day and posting flyers on every corner what what Cain was seeing was a wife who was extremely defensive vague dismissive of the several red flags surrounding her and and since she did not want to confront them or admit any wrongdoing then for Kane. It only proved her guilt. He now fully believed that she he was involved in his son's disappearance. There was no other way rounded in his mind. That's what led to a big fight. On June. Twenty six fix by this time Cain was absolutely convinced that his partner for seven years committed a heinous an unthinkable unthinkable crime against his innocent and vulnerable son with this newfound belief in his mind Kaine Horman and legally filed for a restraining order against Terry under the rules of this restraining order. Terry was not allowed to come anywhere near him and their daughter you're and as it turned out he may have had good reason. Investigators were interviewing. Everyone involved involved with a hormone family and they had just gotten to Rodolpho Rudy Sanchez a landscaper hired by Terry that tinted their backyard and when investigators questioned rudy they got way more than they could have ever bargained for. Rudy didn't seem to have any clues about what happened to Kyron but he did make a shocking claim about Terry free and before I tell you what that is. I have to point out these claims have been one hundred percent unsubstantiated and have not been proven by any investigation or in any court what I'm about to tell you is simply the here site of a gentleman who worked there and new terry somewhat closely according to Rudy Terry approached him in January of twenty ten to offer him a job but he claimed it was not a landscaping job he claimed Terry offered him ten thousand dollars to murder her husband cane he claimed Harry provided him details of Kane's daily routine gene and suggested that rudy make the killing look like mugging. I need to repeat no investigator was able to prove Rudy's claims however these allegations were serious and it was the top story in the newspaper for their July fourth edition. The media was ruthless. Terry had no choice but to lawyer up and begin manning strong defense against the allegations. We're beginning to swirl around her. Did you have a personal relationship with this landscaper now. He wanted one though and I had he there was a comment about mothers day he'd come out to the house to do some yard work on mother's. Day according according to him he wanted to see me on mother's Day he was dressed differently in the Cologne on and then he comes up to me and he said well. I just really wanted to see you and he put his. I was holding my daughter here and he comes up to my left side and he puts his arms around me and give me a kiss by the ear wouldn't let go and I thought that outright on five acres in the middle of nowhere this guy's going to rape me here at your in front of my daughter husband about it now because he did not know that I had a landscaper that was coming out to the house to do yard work. He was very hard on James and myself about taking care of things he just assumed that his job is he said was to work and that minus take care of the House and home including the children and so he thought James was at the time he would have been about fifteen and it's it's. It's two acres of mobile mobile area. We're not talking like it's a yard. I mean it's it's it's big and I when the landscaper came out to do yard work. He came out five or call five different times to do significant work and when he did I gave James the credit for it okay so kane didn't know there was a yard man at all so you were lying to your husband. There was deception. You were lying into your husband. Yes then this landscaper starts hitting on you yes then. What am I going to say. I've already. I already created a lie. I'm trying to get the benefit to James. I'm not telling he's not paying for it. I'm paying for my own pocket for this landscaper to do yard work. You see how it begins gins. Have people begin to look at this because I'm on this why I'm giving you a chance to clear these things up because they say okay you're lying to the media about the status of your marriage win. It's in a down which fire on you said No. No everything's fine. It's all rumor rumer. Don't even think about it. Everything's fine when in fact you know that he's left with a baby that things are in serious trouble. You're lying to your husband about having a landscaper than the landscapers hit known you so now you can't saying because you've lied to him about him being there so there's a landscape you don't even know his here but what he's showing up with. Cologne on and and grabbing onto me while I'm holding the baby and I got to tell you about that so you lie about that so you lied about having him then you lie I by omission about him. Costing you out there and then you told the police as anybody that you can think of that my have a reason season to want to take hiring or hurt him in any way and you describe this landscaper but you describe him. There's a stranger right. You do say you need to consider this guy over here but you don't say he's a landscaper. That's been in my employees. Could you tell us that you told the police. I told him how many times dates that he'd been there that James had actually worked with him in tandem. They remove some branches together. There's was when chain sailed out to landscaper. I told the police every I said everything I all. I did not keep anything back. Did that makes a landscaper. Mad I finger at is at maybe why he made the story up because that's a pretty bizarre story to make up. Just it's like oh she over two thousand dollars to kill husband exactly around. I don't know why he said that other than he's the the cops the cops to the same thing to me as far and they did the same thing in my friend. Dede Spicer is that basically they say you tell us one here. If you don't tells one here we're GonNa make you. She hired a high powered criminal defense lawyer. Stephen House seeven was known to be one of the best and most expensive criminal defence lawyers in the state and had a strong reputation for preventing clients from getting serious jail time the breakdown of -Tarian Canes Mary each only further desert as belief that Terry had reason to harm her son. You say that the night before carbon went missing that things happen that you now now know about that. You've discovered that had you known about she would never have been allowed to leave the house with him. What did you find. What do you well as always terry? Put everything in writing which God lover has been a blessing for us and she put down in writing that hurricane were up until three in the morning fighting about their marital problems that she had told told him she was done with at all that she was moving back to Roseburg. They were getting a divorce she was done with it and it was gonna be Friday the day that Kyron went missing so big upheaval that night now that didn't in happened. It was a normal morning for me up at five o'clock to the gym back home. GET READY FOR WORK KISS goodbye go to the office but you're saying that that so you have seen personally read an email from her account to a friend of hers that says we're fighting till three. AM In the morning think filing Outta here gone and you're saying you did not fight to three in the morning did fight till two or one or twelve or eleven there was there was no big blow up that night now. Are you shocked to hear this that she's an email that that now she's written. Why does that not surprise you. Uh there's a lot of there's a lot of information where she's writing things down and we do the interviews with law enforcement and the actual activities don't match stat emails now you might think this woman has potentially lied about her whereabouts on the day. This child went missing. She is posting insensitive and baffling updates on facebook. She has a landscaper out here claiming. She tried to hire him as a hit man to take out her husband. Even her phone is peeing on a random out of the way island on the day her stepson banishes what could possibly be worse well. You won't believe what investigators discovered next that while little Kyron Horman was missing. She was focused on something else. Entirely a steamy affair. We'll tell you about that and about a mystery friend of Terry's who allegedly was nowhere to be found during the exact act hours. Terry was unaccounted for on the day. Kyron went missing less. We will hear from Terry yes. This all looks bad why she says she was targeted and smeared from the very beginning and I know I'm repeating myself but in fairness I wanNA say again. Terry has never been charged with any crime concerning the disappearance of Kyron horrible believe me when I say we have only scratched the surface of this child's disappearance. What's that and more is on the next episode of into thin air the mysterious disappearance carbon. I'm Dr Phil. Thanks for listening so what more Dr Phil show on the go download load the watch own APP. That's the Oprah Winfrey network APP where you'll find some of my latest and greatest episodes now lots of other great shows goes to discover and stream there to all you have to do is download authenticate and you're all set. It's that simple the watch own APP get it now now.

Rudy Terry Terry Kyron Portland Kyran Kaine Horman Kyran Cain Kane investigator facebook Oregon Bill Terry Dr Phil Phil Skyline Elementary Terry Robin McGraw skyline elementary Karen
1 -  Into Thin Air: The Mysterious Disappearance of Kyron Horman | Mystery and Murder: Analysis by Dr. Phil

Analysis of Murder by Dr. Phil

42:07 min | 1 year ago

1 - Into Thin Air: The Mysterious Disappearance of Kyron Horman | Mystery and Murder: Analysis by Dr. Phil

"In the summer of two thousand ten and the little boy in oregon trudged into his elementary school we'll toting his science fair project an oversized poster board covered in photos. He'd cut out of colorful tree frogs. He posts proudly roundly in front of his project smiling broadly his oversized glasses pertz slightly lopsided on his small face as his stepmother snapped a photo that she later posted to facebook page at that time. No one knew that in a chilling twist this image would be the last photo photo ever taken of seven year old kyron horman only one adult at the school the p._t._a. President could say for sure they saw oh kyran that day and she saw him next to his poster with terry at the science fair after that photo no adult no teacher no oh eight no secretary no security guard no janitor could say for sure that they saw kyron that day when the morning bell rang and the children's settled into their desk in school began kyran was marked absent when the bus stop near as house dropping off the neighborhood children he didn't get off and when his parents called the school they were told he was never there the last person to see kyran borman in the flesh that day was the woman who later became the prime suspect in his disappearance the prime suspect in the eyes if current parents and they claim also in the eyes of the police car and stepmother terri claimed she drove kyran school that morning when inside with him to drop off his project at the science fair where she says she snapped the now infamous final photo of him wave goodbye and then watched him run down the hall towards his classroom room with all the other children but in that small incredibly tiny window of time kyran vanished into thin air it was like like he simply ceased to exist. Get all your favorite music and all your favorite podcast now on the road with you from spotify your daily drive is is a brand new personalized playlist of music news to make your next commute better. Take spotify for a ride in your car today learn more or it spotify dot com slash drive looking for ad free episodes of my podcast. You can listen to every new episode ad free only only on stitcher premium for free month's trial of stitcher premium go to stitcher premium dot com and use promo code fill bill stitcher premium dot com and use promo code p. h. I l. whenever the news covers a story about a missing person. You'll often hear the anchor say they vanished into thin air or the trail went cold but most times that's not completely true. Investigators can usually dig up some kind of final clue. Someone saw them leaving a bar with someone else. A surveillance video showed showed someone getting into an unknown car. A credit card was used in a random gas station or investigators find cell phone ping off the tower but in carmen's armaments case he truly seemed to have vanished into thin air without a single clue without a single trace and despite a lot a lot of movement in the investigations and chilling accusations the case with ice cold leaving curran's disappearance is one of the most mysterious unsolved cases of the past decade now think about it for a second if an adult decides to go missing they have the means. They have the wherewithal they may have cash. They may have credit cards. They can get on a bus. They can hitchhike. They can walk along the road and not seem out of place because they're adults but how about a ten year old bespeckled a little boy. If you see a ten year old little boy hitchhiking along the road everybody notices if a ten year old little boy shows up alone at a bus station or anywhere else people notice an unattended child. It's very difficult difficult for a child to go completely off the grid and find a way to stay gone and survive. They have no money they have no me and of course that always spells great concern for loved ones because that means sir. They probably didn't run away now. Current biological parents desharnais and kaine horman have long long believe they know what happened to her son and they point to the unthinkable that his stepmother a woman who was supposed to protect the innocent little oh boy like a second mother had secretly hated him blamed him for her own troubles wanted him gone and made it happen but that stepmother terri maintains her innocence and police have never charged her or anyone else for that matter with a cry so what happened to that innocent smiling little boy in the glasses that did he vanish into thin air and if so how you're listening to into thin air the mysterious disappearance of kyron horman the the relationship between the mother desire young and the father cain corman was complicated to say the least they had long been separated at the time of karen's disappearance as their divorce had been finalized before kyran was even born kyran didn't grow up in a traditional home with with white picket fence but he did have a mother a father and his stepmother as well as a new baby half sister named kiara carbons ruins mother does array was originally from medford oregon about four hours away from portland. She met kaine horman a promising computer engineer and at first i to seem like a match made in heaven but when desharnais fell pregnant with tyrant their relationship turned sound they divorced citing irreconcilable reconcilable differences before kyran was ever borne by the time he came into the world he already had two separate families one with his mother and her son and another with his father and his new girlfriend terry moulton. This is important because terry the woman kearns parents later accused of not just hurting him but killing him had been in carmen's life since he was a newborn. This wasn't just some stepmom who came into the picture with a man who had an older child. She came came into his life when he was a baby and she didn't just know him. Since he was an infant after his mother does array fell l. with severe kidney failure cain and terry took on full custody while disarray received life saving treatment desert desert as kidney failure was treatable but the road to recovery was going to be expensive and it forced as a ray to make some difficult choices. One of them was to leave her youngest son kyran with his father and his new girlfriend terry. She did this so she could travel to canada to get the treatment she it desperately needed. Delray gay full custody to kane with a stressful job. Becoming a sole parent and guardian wasn't something he was totally prepared pared for but this was done at desert as requests she was not well and she had no idea what the future had in store for her cain had no idea idea if disarray was going to make a full recovery he didn't know what the future held either. All he knew was that he had a two year old and he needed to take care of him for kane. There was no ifs ands or buts as a father. He knew what needed to be done but he didn't raise kyron loan. He had some help from this girlfriend. Terry moulton canes relationship with terry had somewhat of a scandalous start because cain had admit terry while he was still married to desharnais. I was seven months pregnant before it was confirmed. That cain was having an affair at at that time. Terry was one of the women that he was seeing tonight. Kyron went missing. I said cain a perfect stranger did not walk into the school and take my son. I know that you guys are having marital problems. I know what you're doing because i've seen it and then that was when he finally apologized to me for having avenue fair on me seven and a half years prior characters. That's what it took to break him. Uh when terry entertains live cain was dealing with the relationship. That was definitely kremlin. He was also starting a new job and had a baby on the way his friendship with terry was a relief from the struggles he was going through after canes divorced. He pursued a romantic relationship with terry full force when kane i took full custody of kyran. He knew he couldn't raise the child by himself. What with him at work most of the day so at this time he interior had been dating for almost two years. Things were going so well that cain had asked terry to officially move into his portland home to help take care of carmen terry just girlfriend at the time lil she was reluctant but she did did agree so by two thousand four terry along with cade began raising kyran full-time as their own he was just two years old and even know many people say terry was the loving caregiver. It wasn't easy for terry to step into those shoes. Kane ain't has a busy and demanding job terry who had been a substitute teacher and had obtained her master's degree with the hope of becoming the superintendent of a school district aw was forced into the role of mom a role that maybe she wasn't ready for a role that maybe she came to resent because terry was the last adult to see kyron before he vanished it immediately. Put her under a shadow of suspicion. A lot of questions need to be answered and chirons. Parents didn't feel her answers were adding according to desert race testimony terry very would frequently ask her to pick up carbon under the pretense that he should spend more time with his mother but desert believed it was truly to get him out of her hair and out of her way she did not believe for one minute that terry was concerned about the relationship between kyran erin and his mother she believed getting him out of her space was totally self. Serving desharnais said terry would sometimes sometimes even offered to drive kyran all the way from portland to med for to drop him off to his mom. We're talking about a four hour. Drive here was was terry. Just being helpful to a woman who had been through medical hill or as karen's mom desharnais suspected was terry that desperate britt to dump the child in anyone else's hands but her own terry strongly urge cain to return custody of carbon back to desharnais but cain refused. He didn't think it would be a good idea. Plus desharnais was still getting back on her feet. She had been seriously ill and in addition to having to fight the medical condition and overcome the medical obstacles. She was having to fight her way back into her life. There had been a tremendous gap created by her dropping out of society to deal with this disorder to now get back into the workforce and start raising a son as a single mother would just be so much to deal with kane thought it was a bad plan but terry wasn't the only one who wanted chirundu urban to go back to leaving with his mother. Kyran himself apparently missed his mom. Terribly terry says he would cry himself to sleep often waking up cain and terry crying for desharnais each and every night his mom worried that something beyond just missing her was going on behind closed those doors. She says she feared that may be something was off between chiron and his stepmother something was off. What did she mean by that. He was very upset. He was crying. There was something going on. She wouldn't and tell me what specifically initiated the event <hes> but that he was upset he wanted to come home. You want to come and live with me. He didn't want to be there and and he wanted me to come and get him. This array had never worried about kyran being cared for by terry before terry was an aspiring educator was known to be nurturing during an attentive mom who always put her son james and kyran before herself by the time kyran was seven years old and a second grader at skyline elementary school terry had married kane and was his legal stepmother and she took a more hands on approach volunteering at school events since she was even the emergency contact. Should anything happen to kyran. As chiron grew older. His relationship with terry seemed mm to grow stronger according to adam barber a swim instructor terry would teach kyran james and her two year old daughter kiara how does well he says. The relationship was so close and so natural that it wasn't until kyran went missing that adam found out that chiron was her stepson but was there something brewing behind closed doors. According to desert as kyran was getting older from two thousand five live to two thousand ten he would be a bit of a headache for terry because he constantly cry wet himself and ask for his mother cain painted admitted that during the period when they first took in kyran terry was noticeably drinking more alcohol and even doing it in front of the kids they actively talked about alcohol in the home and we tried to restrict that we did take some conscious steps and it seemed like things got better than it was over several years and terry had started started increasing the levels of alcohol in the home oftentimes who i would go downstairs and my daughter would be roaming around the house with her passed out on the couch. Was this an indication that chirundu prince presence was causing her so much turmoil. It was driving her to drink in two thousand and five terry was driving on the interstate five highway supposedly supposedly heading home with her eleven year old son james in the back seat. Her car was spotted zigzagging at different speeds. Police pulled her over and determined terry jerry was intoxicated and driving with her young son sitting in the backseat her blood alcohol level was point one five almost double the legal legal limit now at point one five you are three hundred and eighty times more likely to be in a fatal crash then if you are sober and the drinker has the appearance of being a quote sloppy drunk at this point most drinkers began to feel incapacitated capacity aided and many social drinkers will pass out nausea begins to set in and drinkers have a difficult time focusing on any object and often report double or impaired vision so she wasn't just slightly intoxicated with her son in the back seat did she was substantially impaired with her son in the backseat. As the police officers handcuffed her and walked her to their vehicle. They read her the miranda rights and charged her with a d._u._i. And a charge for wreckless child endangerment and once they found her information on filed they called cain and asked him to pick up his son while terrier waited her arraignment. Now terry took responsibility for her actions and pled guilty to the d._u._i. A u i an reckless child endangerment charges because this was her first conviction. The judge gave her no jail time but instead ordered her take a diversion course in other words a rehabilitation program to help terry's drinking now i make a point of this because it suggest that something was going on that greatly impaired both her motivation and her judgment remember number. We're talking about someone had a bachelor's and master's degree in education meeting that she had devoted her life to working with breath and building up the future of young people and yet here she is with her own son putting him in a situation asian where she is three hundred and eighty times more likely to have a fatal car crash and presents to the police police as a sloppy impaired drunk. This is more than just a lapse in judgment kyran remained wind in her and canes care and terry continued to shoulder motherly responsibilities like dropping kyran at school and going to his science. It's fair like she claims she did. On the morning of friday june fourth twenty ten his father said it wasn't unusual for terry too tight kyran school and the morning thing began like any other. It was a normal morning. Nothing seemed out of place. We got ready together and i went to work and i saw him walking out to the car before i left and gave him a hug. I told him i loved him. Normal interaction terry claims that around seven thirty in the morning she took car in the school he was excited to present his science project students staff and parents a project that he worked extremely hard on but eight o'clock terry claim she and chirundu arrived at skyline elementary and headed inside at the school's gym where the science fair displays. We're being set up by eight fifteen p._t._a. President jean zimmerman reports seeing kyron erin standing next to his project. Terry took the last photo ever seen of carbon. She claims they left the fair together and walked up the the main staircase of the school parting ways in front of the schools central office. It's now nine a._m. And another student claims he saw current by the south entrance the school the only potential witness to see kyron outside of the science fair is a child -tarian says yes. She returned to her car left. The school premises believing her stepson was safely inside his classroom okay but you where we might say indicates than i am at yes right here in his classroom is down here yes and so you're looking from here down here and you see him almost to his classroom door. Yes that's the last time you saw you described it as he was toddling off to his classroom so he's making his way to his classroom. He was almost to the door and that's when you last saw him. That's the last time nine you laid eyes on him. He was almost in his classroom door cracked inside the school. Something is off. Something isn't right one by one a teacher looks at each of her students desk and marks them either present or absent row by row seat by seat until she arrives kyran seat and it's empty. There's no one there no backpack no books nothing. Kyron horman is not present in this classroom and the teacher marks him absent yet yet strangely. No one is alerted that he is missing until he doesn't get off the school bus later that day. I say strangely because if a child what is absent there is almost always a policy particularly at an elementary school for the office to check with the home them to see if the child is ill make sure the child is at home. Make sure they haven't gotten stuck somewhere between home and school. They always notify a parent it. If the child is not in the classroom yet on this day no one is told and is not known that child is missing until until he doesn't get off the bus until the middle of the afternoon. That's important because it means. The child has now been missing mm for almost eight hours on june fourth two thousand ten. There was a science fair at the school. Tyron was so extremely proud proud of what he was doing for the project. I was really upset that i couldn't be there because i wasn't able to take the day off in the afternoon. We we went down to the bus. Stop to pick him up. Terry was there. My daughter was there. We all walk down together to the bus stop and the bus driver opened the door and we asked her car and on the bus and she he said now and we are a little shocked. Investigators immediately questioned terry about her whereabouts. She claimed it after leaving kyran at school. She ran errands errands. I going to a fred meyer grocery store around seven miles away to buy medicine for her daughter. Who had an ear ache. She had a receipt showing she had bought something at nine nine twelve from the store but they didn't have the medicines she needed so she headed to a different fred. Meyer surveillance footage showed her in both stores ars then she claimed that between ten and eleven forty a m she was driving on portland's rule roads in her white truck in order to soothe her daughter cures alleged earache. Law enforcement says you tell them that you're driving living around with your daughter because she has an ear ache and what i told them was as i was trying to get her down for her ten o'clock. You're soothing her with cars. Put kids to sleep. We we do know that so from ten to eleven thirty nine. You're driving living along the rule. There's a lot rule there but you're driving along a road and hoping to that she'll go sleep. Your cell phone pinged at the saw the island the day of the disappearance not true and you say that because there's not a cell tower on solving island to your or knowledge right right then last time that someone knows can verify having seen you mm-hmm is ten ten so then from ten ten to eleven thirty nine. You're driving with your daughter and at that point. You're you've you've said to them and to us that you're thinking was okay if she goes to sleep didn't go home and have the nap if she's not asleep then. I'll go the gym and work out. I did exact same thing today before right okay so she doesn't go to sleep so you go to the gym and and you put your daughter in the daycare area there and you work out. Was it a problem putting your daughter in and the daycare. If she was feeling well and had an ear infection the day before she was in there for about probably fifteen minutes or so and and <hes> they called me to come get her but on the fourth she seemed alright but i didn't you're only supposed to have about our limit time to leave your kid hid in there but because she had been feeling as well i only left in there for about probably forty five minutes or so and went and got her and then we're just talking to some people just general as i do but that was for one hour and forty minutes where no one saw terry where she was unaccounted good for her only ally the sleeping toddler police would zero in on this time and were determined to pinpoint her exact act movements. Where did she go. Who did she see. She wasn't a suspect but as police discovered the answer to all these questions their public statements made it clear that they were looking harder and harder at terri horman the next place where terry can prove she went was at eleven forty a m. She checked it into a twenty four hour fitness gym and left her daughter at the daycare there. She worked out for forty minutes before heading home now at this point. You're probably thinking okay. Does this make sense so far well. I'm sure as a parent many of us. I know that when we put our child in their car seat and drive around vibration the kark certainly soothe them and put them to sleep so there's some credibility in that statement i think everyone would agree and she certainly has evidence that. She showed up where she said she did. At nine twelve and a few minutes later at a second fred meyer surveillance video confirms them but then there's missing hour and forty minutes an hour and forty minutes that we now know her stepson kyran is missing and then she shows goes up at twenty four hour fitness and leaves her daughter in daycare the same daughter that she went to the store to pick up medicine for an ear infection. Does it make sense to take a child with an ear infection and put them in day care while you workout. I know that questions in your mind so i'm just saying it out. Loud does a mother. Take a child with an ear infection and leave them in daycare while they work out out. If it was bad enough to need to go get medication. Would it be bad enough to administer the medication and take her home and keeper still. I'll let you answer that in your own mind by one twenty one p._m. She had logged onto her facebook page and like any proud parent would she posted did the last known picture of kyran. Carmen's parents would later question. Could this woman have been capable of harming her own stepson and then posting a photo to facebook to get police offer trail. It's something that terry has always denied and i will remind you also something that she has never never been charged with. She has never been charged with harming her own stepson. She's never been charged with any crime associated with the disappearance of kyron horman around three thirty pm cain alongside terry and kiara walk to the nearby bus stop to collect kyran off the bus and take achim home as the bus approached the stop and the doors slid open a number of kids jump out but not carbon cain waits a few more seconds. Maybe the boy royal sitting in the back and it's taking awhile to walk out or maybe he's lost his glasses any struggling to find them. Those could have been a few theories as to why kyron didn't exit exit the bus but the truth is he never got out of the bus because he never got on the bus in the first place. Whatever the case wealthy people. Can you get away with anything did you. Did you murder your wife whatever they conflate this this. The school went on lockdown one show joe. Has you covered. This was not an act of god. She was marred dirt dr phil the only person you ever control troll issue and all new season starts september nine. Check your vocalists danes. Take coloring your hair at home to the next next level with madison reed. You deserve gorgeous. Professional hair-color delivered to your door for less than twenty five dollars. Now women loved the results gorgeous shiny any multidimensional healthy looking hair. Madison reed delivers gray covering game changing color. 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He is this really me a peptide jail that instantly lifts and titans literally in ten minutes. I've seen it happen. Just paddle on wherever skin looks or feels feels a little tired and watch your skin just perk right up. That's why robin calls it shape wear for your face match it with the moisturizer hydrated had skin equal youth for a glowing and radiant complexion with robin sculpt smooth duo kit make every day that special occasion to make your skin dan fabulous get everything you need for your best gained from robin mcgraw revelation dot com today. That's robin mcgraw revelation dot com. It's now three forty six p._m. Kane and terry appear to be panicking. They get on the phone and immediately called. The school's principal hoping the bus driver is mistaken and carbon is just simply stranded at school. Maybe he missed the bus but when the principal checks with carbons teacher feature and she says he never showed up to class all the fears come to fruition in that moment there is the experience of a nervous nervous terror that no parent should ever have to experience the question is was it experienced by kane and and terry or just by kane. What's the principal confirms that the boy is missing. They immediately call the authorities and by four thirty three an hour later under law enforcement arrived at both skyline elementary and the hormone hasselt okay based on the information given this was indeed a missing persons case and the police knew that time was the essence in missing persons cases especially when the missing a person is a child those first hours are critical and in this case eight hours had already come and gone. You always hear that the first forty eight or i seventy two hours are critical in missing person cases. Let me talk talk to you little bit about the reason why it's during these first forty eight to seventy two hours that evidence degrades if there are fingerprints or some piece of evidence whether it be a cup or a piece of clothing or a footprint is left just environmentally the evidence can degrade it can be walked on it can be swept up it can disappear and in those first two to three days memories tend to fade and people that were in the immediate vicinity tend to scatter they go on about their life and they're harder to find because the radius around the crime scene gets larger and larger as people return to their lives and statistically we have seen that after seventy two hours tips and leads slowed down dramatically. We also know that in child abductions very few very few child. Abductions are committed by strangers. We also also know that if a child is going to be murdered it can happen in the first two to three hours and certainly in the first several days so as time passes a child being in peril and the abductor not knowing what to do with child or how to handle the child puts pressure and they make really desperate decisions so keeping pressure sure off of the perpetrator and preserving leads all of these come to bear and put pressure on law enforcement to try and and cracked the case as quickly as possible search teams began combing. The school grounds at approximately eight. Oh nine p._m. Almost twelve hours after kyran was last seen in the south entrance to skyline elementary at this time law enforcement's ticking clock had definitely shortened those first critical hours had come and gone by ten forty. Pm officers had searched every corner of skyline school in the surrounding property. They had also searched the hormones home. They found nothing in either. Location as searches continue over the next few days the f._b._i. National national guard joined the effort. All of carbons fellow classmates at all. The staff at the school were questioned. Kate and terry were at their home answering questions questions from investigators. Kane told him that he last saw kyron in the morning right before he left the school. He told him that he then went to work and did not learn that his son was missing until he was at the best op that afternoon but law enforcement were more interested in terry. They knew the layout the school terry claim when she last saw kyron he was at the top of the staircase by the front office from that staircase. His classroom was only fifty feet away. Just fifty feet that is a very small space for a child to vanish into thin air cain had been at school too and this detail did not make sense to him either how far he's going. He's not going that far and even if they did split right there. You're gonna tell me he got picked up by a stranger in about fifty feet and willingly walked out the door with someone that he didn't know -solutely not not a chance aw there was the fact to consider that carbon could have wandered off by himself into the woods surrounding the school or somewhere outside that hallway where he could potentially richly have been snatched but if you knew kyron at all if you knew his personality if you knew his physical attributes then you knew you this was not the type of child to take off alone in fact his mother does array said if anything he was more attached to her her than any other children his age and was scared and sometimes even panicked if he had to go anywhere alone. Kyran is very shy and reserved. He always sticks by my side when we're in stores because does he has this fear of not being able to see me. Kyran can see about maybe three feet out so maybe on the other side of this tree he might might be able to see i remember we were standing next to each other in the pharmacy and i literally stepped forward a couple of feet because she called me and i hear here hand behind me starting to hyperventilate and panic because he can't see because his eyesight was poor in kyran couldn't see further within three feet without his glasses. It just didn't seem plausible. The kyran would have left the school alone. His mother believes there's no possible away. He would get up and leave unless someone was with him and that would have to be someone he knew. While kane initially supported his wife i saying she was committed to finding carbon. He did eventually began to fear. Terry was involved in his son's disappearance but desharnais. He says she immediately had reason to question. Terry not only had her son gone missing on her watch but terry. Kane never called her to tell her <unk> tyron was missing. She says she didn't find out until more than an hour later. When she got a call from school. I received a phone call about four twenty in the afternoon from the secretary. She said i was asked to call you by law enforcement to notify you that irons missy and i didn't know and what to do with because why hadn't cain called me. Why hadn't terry called me. How was he missing because i i had tons of emails confirming that he was there and so i went to call terry and i said to terry you went to the science fair. How is he missing and that question is the one that has haunted both desert and kane and everyone who followed this story for nine years. How how is he missing. How did he go missing. There's only one answer that seem to make any kind of sense does array and with a creeping hor she began to fear that terry might be hiding a dark and deadly secret as the search for carbon intensified so did the public scrutiny of terry you and something about terry's claim that she last saw kyran standing on those steps of the school's main staircase caught nezar as attention and made her believe in that moment that terry was line and when they pull that thread desert raise trust antares terry's account well it really began to unravel and is police dug further. One question burned in their minds when carbon didn't show up for school unexpectedly. Why hadn't the school called carmen's parents about his unplanned absence and with this question another whole appeared in terry's terry's accused a teacher claimed no one question carman's absence because terry had told her that kyron would not be be there that day that's right. A teacher claimed that no one reported carbons absence because his stepmother terri had had informed the school through this teacher that kyron would be absent that day so what does terry have to say about this mill. That's exactly where we're going to start on the next episode of into thin air the mysterious disappearance of kyron horman. I'm dr phil. Thanks for listening <music>. What more the dr phil show on the go download the watch own app. That's the oprah winfrey network doc app where you'll find some of my latest and greatest episodes now lots of other great shows to discover stream there to all you have to do is download authenticate vindicate and you're all set. It's that simple the watch own app get it now.

terry moulton carmen terry kyran kyran cain corman kane Kyron portland kaine horman terry jerry desharnais facebook spotify madison reed dr phil terri chiron secretary desharnais
Monday, Mar. 16: Dr. Jennifer Ashton and Sara Haines guest co-hosts, plus Dr. Phil joins

The View

38:04 min | 7 months ago

Monday, Mar. 16: Dr. Jennifer Ashton and Sara Haines guest co-hosts, plus Dr. Phil joins

"Subscribe to our podcast to get hot topics delivered every afternoon. And while you're at it rate us and Labor Review Keith. Start Your Week because the view is live room for debate biting in burning. Keep us safe distance from each other at last night's audience. Free One on one to lay out. How far apart they are on the issues. We'll fighting for the future this planet and who they want on their tickets a picked a woman to be vice president. Dr Phil is live on the view with a reality check on the panic over the corona virus pandemic a brand new view your deal plus Sara Hanes and Dr Jennifer Ashton are both hitting the table guest co host. The House of hot topics is in session with be joy. Behar Sunny Haas Tin and Meghan McCain. Now let's get things started. Hello welcome to the real. Y'All are very big big ass as our guest. Cohost are the fact that Sarah Hanes and the fabulous Dr Jen Ashton. Welcome welcome. Joy made the decision to self isolate in the wake of the corona virus endemic. And we also have no audience and there are plenty of other disruptions in American life right now in the CDC says to limit gatherings to less than fifty people. Schools are closing all over the conscientious or bars and clubs restaurants. They're all shutting down or limiting service to take out only and it feels like this is gonna be live for the foreseeable future and something that I've been seeing that I want to host. Everybody's there's a people are sort of attaching real anger to people to service people people who are in places to help you get information whether they're people who are behind the counters you know putting the grocery store grocery store and people people being yelled at and we need to just everybody has to take. This is happening to everybody happening to white people or black people or Asian people or it's happening to all of us and I'm wondering if you're feeling the tension that seems to be attacking us as human beings going through this. I think the interesting thing is people are so concerned with themselves. You're seeing kind of the worst part of human nature amount. They're trying to block themselves. But really we have to be in it together and metaphorically together but literally apart to deal with this right now and I think people are so busy just thinking of themselves that when you hoard hand sanitizer and other things. Yeah Yeah thank you for sharing when you when you poured that you're not saving yourself from the people. You're not allowing to buy things like people seem to be turning inward when we really need to make sure we keep our eyes outward. I've I've seen some things you know on on the Internet. That have disappointed me. People fighting over toilet paper and and hoarding things. But I've also seen the best of humanity Also people helping there was a video of of an elderly couple in a car and they were waiting for someone to come by and the the woman gave another woman one hundred dollars in grocery lessons that we're in our eighty we don't want to go into the grocery store whereby sir. Will you do my shopping for me? I I've seen really good as well for for us. My kids are at home. My Mom who runs a school is now also at home because of the New York City Ban. I'm a restaurant owner so our restaurant has really taken a hit. And we're going to be closing but I think it's time for all of us to come together. I think it's fine that our restaurant is closing because we have to be safe not only for our staff but also for our neighbors so you know that kind of talk about the toilet paper for. I think a lot of people have missed the real point with that you know and people are a yes. People are making some jokes like what what's toilet paper but I read a very interesting analysis by a psychologist about it and I think it's absolutely on point which is that toilet. Paper represents first of all fear and stress and anxiety on the part of everyone to address a basic bodily function. We all need to eat. We all need to go to the bathroom. And in moments like this where there's so much uncertainty. That is an example of something that people feel that they can do to bring some control in an otherwise chaotic situation. So I think that it's just a metaphor. It happens to be toilet paper because it's an important bodily function but it really speaks to. What what you guys are saying. That people are nervous. They're afraid that's understandable. That's a normal reaction and I think that the appropriate reaction to that is just a focus on what's important right now. We can't control A lot of things with this outbreak but we can control our actions our effort and our preparation to address. Look I think this has been a total referendum on our distrust of our institutions in this country There's clear a sheer distrust of the government on a level. I don't think I even realized and I'm conservative and I fear big government as it is The mixed messaging coming out of the White House right. Now is not only irresponsible. But it's downright dangerous. You Have Devon Nunez going on TV saying oh it's okay go socialized. It's okay hug people. It's fine when you have the President United States. That can't even handle not shaking hands during a press conference lead by example and we're not seeing a lot of profiles encouraged coming out of the White House right now and I think that's what's stoking and right now. I've only seen panicking to the degree. Hoarding Toilet Paper screaming at each other or complete delusion with a bunch of millennials going out partying and bars and. I was furious about this over the weekend because I stayed inside with my husband all weekend. We if you don't care about your own health care about your parents health care about your grandparents care about people over sixty because what you're doing is compromising. Everyone and there seems to be no inbetween. There seems to be calming of. What's going on and I do think it starts at the top. And if you have people saying oh jared Kushner's charge serve. I don't think that's not going to handle everything while and if you can't even get through a press conference without not shaking hands and putting yourself in a position where you could be compromised. So we're supposed to say six feet apart with the press. Corps is all jumbled up in one place in one of the president and he has to say sixty there's mixed messaging all the way around which is adding to the chaos. That's a great point. The optics are hard to follow. Because you're telling someone one thing and their shoulder to shoulder the whole time and also to Megan's point about leading by example. I think there's so much confusion right now because this is a new virus there is confusion in the world of medicine and science just to begin with but you know if someone is exposed to a known and confirmed case. There is not a clear indication for testing that person. What there is is a social responsibility for self quarantine and that's not just for our own protection. It's for the protection of those around. Also point something out people who are who have been exposed to the virus it does not mean they're going to drop dead. Everybody needs to calm down right. You need to calm down. That's not what that means. There are lots of people who have been exposed who may or may not have symptoms. We won't know until we see but it's not a death sentence and everyone needs to stop thinking. Oh my God I'm GonNa it's not what's happening now you talking a lot more about this on twenty twenty. Why would we be Primetime special night? We'll be on. Abc Ten Eastern time from twenty twenty. We have a deep dive again on what we know what we don't know about the corona virus pandemic. We're going to be taking Live viewer questions. I'm going to be answering them on air. We're going to be addressing the psychological acts aspects of this and we have some really great reporting so I hope people tune in and the coverage continues tomorrow night on nightline at a special time of eleven thirty five eastern and we will be right back still ahead races control how. The Corona virus changed the conversation at last night's democratic debate. Which candidate has the better plan to handle it to solve? Now what's a revolution when do disrupt everything in the meantime okay? So you know. These ladies aren't afraid to voice their views throughout of it. But now it's time for you to voice yours so wrap your phone and join the conversation. Twitter going nuts. We want to hear your take on hot topics. Have you been reading walks off and don't forget to like us on facebook? Follow us on instagram. And subscribe to hear podcasts. Just weekdays on ABC. Still Ahead. Dr Phil. Mcgraw is live with tips on coping with the fear over corona virus. And how to talk to your kids about it and an all new year deal welcome back. You know who did not help. Calm the corona virus panic yesterday when he held the press conference that Megan was talking about and paint such a different picture than the director of the NIH is infectious disease. Division dot the Anthony. Thoug- did right afterwards. Now take a look. There's no need for anybody in the country to hoard essential food supplies. They said to me. Could you please tell them just going by enjoy it have a nice dinner relax because display? But you don't have to you don't have to buy the quantities. The worst is yes ahead for us. It is how we respond to that challenge. That's going to determine what the ultimate end point is going to be so this is adding to the anxiety but you tell people what you want them to know. Oh my gosh I mean first of all. Here's here's how I look at this as a doctor. Let's say the country is a patient about to be wheeled into the operating room right? You say to that patient who says to you doc. I'm scared I'm nervous. Of course that's normal. That's natural most people don't like going into the operating room unless you work work in one and the answer is we have a whole team to take care of you. We are prepared for everything from the run of the mill. Expected to the unexpected. And we are prepared to pivot on a dime and respond accordingly and we will take care of you. Ok when you hear news from a medical doctor like Dr Anthony. Fauci who is literally a legend. It's very different from hearing it from an elected official raid because we are used to looking in the eyes of someone who is nervous. And saying I understand. Here's what we're doing and yeah. If I were going to do surgery on you would be. I would say guess what you're GonNa be in pain afterwards is going to hurt. That's Dr Vouch. Choose message was not all one thing or the other but I do have to say that. We are in the middle of an emergency health crisis. Now is not the time for blame. We will have plenty of time for that when we come through it but you know as I always say. Be careful when you point fingers or usually pointing back at you and right now we have to focus on what we are doing right now and what we are doing tomorrow and as Dr Fao. She said we. We can only hope that in six months we say you know what we overreacted. We did too much. You know what what is sort of still disconcerting for me? At least is is the lack of testing. Because you would think if you're testing people that have symptoms. Then you can identify hotspots right like new Rochelle which is in Westchester in New York. If you can identify hotspots then you can contain here and flatten the curve here. We have tested. What fourteen thousand people? You have a country like South Korea. That's testing hundreds of thousands of so every point sunny and I want to say two things quickly about testing number one in South Korea of all the people they tested. They only got about four percent. Positive that's important. Information do need to test more people and we want to see a lot of negatives okay right now. You'll be tested first for the flu. And if that comes back negative eventually if you depending on where you live for Corona virus but I wanna be clear that the drive-by testing is not fully operational yet in many many places and that is adding to the fear and frustration. I don't understand why it's not operational because I am the world. Health Organization offered the United States. This test in January. Why are we now in March and we have this pandemic going screwed and we don't there's a lot of Hash and we're waiting any day now for the clinical data on the. Us cases has not been released either. I need that information. You also don't like the idea of politicizing it in the sense that like. Oh it's all Republicans it's like Democrats while but it's our job is citizens to call out. Bs when we see it. And I'm sorry when you have people from the administration going on TV saying they don't know if we're going to have enough ventilators. We don't know if our hospitals can handle it. It is more than fair to have righteous indignation as American citizens that I don't believe they are hindered news. One more thing I want to point out this idea of insisting that people come home instantly and then they are trapped in airport in airports right shoulder to shoulder with no plan this race. Yeah and then to have a whole airplane. Coming from the Philip was Philippines. That landed today no testing at all right. Nola tested bottom line. Right now is if you are suspicious that you may have corona virus. And you can't get tested err on the side of caution and self quarantine if your symptoms are mild. Stay home for fourteen days. We'll be right back so one of the things that I was talking to Dr Jan about is things that I think people can do. So if you have a high school seniors in your town and you can get ten of them in your backyard. Get SOME CAPS and gowns. Because they're not going to get a graduation service this year graduation in the backyard. If you WANNA be in a month in a in a Manga well but it's if you're trying to figure out what you can do here are things you can do. We have to figure out how to feed all these kids now. Who need a breakfast and lunch at school? You so maybe we can make a deal with the ice cream trucks to go to the different neighborhoods and bring them breakfast and lunch so you always know where they are some to come and get him. Think of things that you can do to maybe make it easier on. Somebody else can do while. We're socially isolating staying apart distancing. Excuse me that you could buy online or in you know Gift cards to local businesses. So you can use them later. Don't go out now. Jarvis has. Yeah here's the thing. If you're going to do things like buy stuff you might WanNa think about doing it sooner rather than later because we don't know how long. Ups is going to let their drivers come out because they had they also have to go and get all those boxes from the from the places so we have to be really conscientious about the stuff we can do and the stuff other functions and it impacted. Apparently last night's democratic debate. What debate. Yeah I know. Most people didn't realize it was happening. We're also wrapped up Joe Biden Bernie. Sanders was six feet apart to maintain without an audience and people were like. Oh so I asked what was your biggest takeaway. I filled a bit of restoration of faith in watching the two of them. I feel like Biden does better. Maybe in smaller venues I was I liked some of the solutions. They spoke of Biden brought up in this time right now. Utilizing our military more we talk about the defense funds and money put into that. Sometimes that can be used domestically and I think how he said. There are so many people in in the armed services trained to ask a surplus of medical facilities and resources. I'm curious what you think but I found some faith in watching. It might be just because we're living in a time of anxiety so to see two people going back and forth. I could take it in easier than the big stages full of people fighting so I felt good. I thought I thought Biden really did a great job. I felt that there were some missed opportunities. Because you have Biden making news saying you know if I'm elected I'm going to appoint somebody to the Supreme Court and African American woman that made news. I think when he made news I will pick a woman as my VP. He made news there. Bernie's response was sort of lacklustre for me. Because you know he's he's not doing well with the African American community. Some sometimes he doesn't do well with women and instead of then saying I'll do the same thing or I have plans to do the same thing he sort of equivocated on it and I also thought my goodness were all talking about the corona virus. It's affecting everyone's lives. Why not say? Listen this administration is not doing. Well here You know this virus may be around till November. Do you want Donald Trump at the helm of this country in November. I thought there was some misunderstanding. That was because they were more solution. Based THAN WHAT DR. Jen said which is politicizing. You don't WanNa do that so I thought they did a good job of saying what would I do right to make its point? It's time for this administration to account. We found we open up today with the worst stock market since nineteen eighty-seven it hit the red line. Or whatever it is and I actually think this exposed Terrorism wise how vulnerable we are to bioterrorism. Clearly we are not a country that is prepared in any way whatsoever. What are your solutions at? The Biden did well as well. But I thought Bernie was still debating like the Cronin endemic wasn't happening. Maybe this time from Bernie to think about it. We'll talk more about this when we come back when it comes to hiring. You don't have time to waste. You need help getting to your shortlist of qualified candidates fast. That's why you need indeed dot Com post. A job in minutes set up screener questions then zero in on qualified candidates using an intuitive online dashboard. And when you need to hire fast accelerate your results with sponsored jobs. New USERS CAN TRY FOR FREE AT INDEED DOT COM Slash View. That's indeed dot com slash terms conditions and quality standards apply offer valid through. March thirty first twenty twenty. See The new Disney movie star girl based on the New York Times Bestseller. When Leo and star girl meet they'll change how they see themselves and the world streaming only on Disney plus beginning March thirteenth. Tomorrow Dr Oz is live on the view to share how he's keeping his family safe during the corona virus pandemic back hard calm down. Everybody just calm down. I can't hear myself think journal. Last night's democratic debate Joe Biden seemed to give a preview of who he was to help him lead the contract but Bernie wasn't quick to comment about it. Let's take a look committed that if I'm elected president have an opportunity to appoint someone to the courts will be. I'll appoint the first black woman to the courts. Mike Administration will look like the country and I commit that. I will in fact a point a pick a woman to be vice president. It's not just nominating or a woman. It is making sure that we have a progressive women and they're all progressive women out there so my very strong tendency is to move in that direction. What does that mean? I don't know what exactly does that. Mean that he uses the such a label for things you know. I have two kids in college. And they're they're very anti label. They're all about like look at the person. Yeah look at the individual not. Don't identify in this box or this box or this box. I mean I was asleep when the debate happened. So I'm assuming going to say I'm surprised you have a little bit. So how important is committing to a female candidate right now? I just I know. It doesn't always work. I mean you can't just. I think I agree with you that I think identity politics candidates in the media. Always overestimate how important it is to the American public. I think the best person is is going to be who ends up doing it. Especially if this pandemic continues across the country just think they're gonNa want someone who is equally responsible and someone he trusts. Well Yeah and women come in various shapes sizes names faces etc so to just say Said woman I appreciate the intention of that but it would mean I have to see who that person is before I have super strong feelings about it. Well I appreciate it. I was encouraged by it. I think administration leadership in this country needs to reflect what our country looks like. I mean you know. The country is over fifty percent women and so not to have a woman in a leadership position. I think just as it makes sense at this time in our country and it doesn't make sense that we haven't had a woman in this type of position in our country's history so for me. I thought it was it was. It was wonderful that he committed to doing that. And I don't know who that that choice would be. People are saying it's Stacey Abrams people are saying it's harass people have talked about Elizabeth Warren. They've talked about Amy Klobuchar. Maybe it's on a hospit- sunny would you hate curiosity? Would you take in that? Vein of representation. Would you take any woman just to have a woman or does it matter to you who wouldn't take any woman but I think that there are enough qualified women that a woman is ready for the task if he does it? I'm telling you Mike Pence's out Nikki Haley and they're going to fight fire with fire. If we go the identity politics route trump will do just as hard period and then a lot of conservative women will be like. Oh I guess there's a conservative woman here who needs. I mean the apocalypse is here so God knows what's going to be like the election finally but it is kind of interesting thing really quick. Thank you to the crew and everyone who showed up Jay. This is not the easiest place to be right now and the hair producer is really like. I'm really great. Everyone came in today. Say That we'll be back next from social distancing to empty store shelves to not going stir crazy when you're stuck home with the kids doctor. Phil's breaking down what you need to know about the corona virus pandemic now. People are still having a hard time wrapping their heads around how much the corona virus pandemic will impact their everyday lives for the foreseeable future. So Dr Phil McGraw Is Joining Us. Live via facetime to help put things into perspective. Please welcome back Dr Phil. So what can people do to reduce anxiety in the face of all of this? What are simple things people can do? Well that's a great question would be number one is we have to realize we're not helpless. The main thing that makes people really feel anxious is they feel like they're just helpless in. There's nothing they can do and that gets into the mental health aspect of this thing. We have to understand that we can do things to protect ourselves and the people that we love and one of the things that we need to start to mate to maintain our meal hill is we need to limit the sources that were getting our information from first we need to stop politicizing and listen to the scientists. I don't care what the politicians say. Shut up listen to the scientists and so you need to limit the sources you're paying attention to and limit the time that you're spins obsessing about this tear twice a day to the media and find out what's going on you don't need to monitor this seven hours a day and it. We need to understand you. You mentioned this earlier. What what monsters live in the dark? If you're gonNA play the what if game. Well what if I hit it? We'll play that out to the. What did you do that? Eighty five percent of the people have mild symptoms. I had a normal flu that dealt with wire hospitalizations. So you're gonNA play the what if game lay it out all the way to the end and I think it's very important that you help other people that sales you up and it pushes anxiety out of your life so as soon as sitting around worrying about yourself do some of the things you guys remigio earlier look around or they're elderly people around that need help. Are there people neighbors that you can do things for drop meals off? Do anything that you can help other people. It really helps to give at our strong believer crises. Don't make heroes or villains it just reveals who people really are and we're going to see a lot about who people really are doing a time like this. Dr Phil Megan. We've all seen the empty store shelves. I want grocery shopping this weekend. People are hoarding items. Like hand sanitizer wipes and there's obviously the Great Toilet Paper Crisis of twenty twenty. What did the psychology behind the behavior of people ordering these type of things? I was listening. You guys talk earlier in psychology. Said said you know this is normal? It's predictable but I don't think it's necessarily normal. I think it's an irrational fear that we're heading into the apocalypse here and that's just really not true. People need to understand that head for the people in the world that have had this disease have already recovered and gone back to their lives. Gone back to over eighty thousand people in China Eliezer verified numbers. Chinese number feeder verified numbers out of eighty thousand. People that have had this almost sixty five thousand have already recovered and gone back to their lives going back to work so we can at least sales aren't going to be restocked and it's sort of a just a irrational fear that we're going to be holed up in caves forever investors simply not wanting to happen if we do things that are required containment and mitigation. This thing can really turn around in thirty days and you can start seeing a decline particularly with us moving into war weather. Well I have a question for you Dr Phil this is sunny. You know we. We've been told to self isolate or socially distance ourselves from others in order to keep the virus from spreading. As you just mentioned. How do you do that? How do you keep yourself from going? Stir crazy right in our homes for these extended periods of times there there are streaming channels all of that. But what's your advice to folks first off. I think we should cooperate without Indu what we're being asked to do. And I stopped taping Dr Phil and I wanted to do that to lead by example ascent my whole staff home last week mandatory and then we shut down beginning today and I. I think we have to cooperate with that when you're at home it's very important that you do as many normal things as you possibly can. For example get outside as much as you can. This is not according to the experts at airborne pathogens is next to actually contact you so it's not airborne so get outside walks your gardener get out guard. The worked outside do much storm will be off used that time. Hi Dr Phil. It's Dr Jen Ashton. How are you a couple of things because you know? We're plugged into the latest here. I think it is really important to remember that there are people have recovered. According to the World Health Organization there are at least seventy three thousand people who've recovered right now we don't yet know. U. S. clinical data. That has not been reported yet. So we don't know how many people have mild illness here in the US. How many are requiring ICU? Admission those numbers are a total moving target. And we also don't know what will happen in this in the warm weather we have to remember. This is a global outbreak. And while it's warm weather here it's winter in the Southern Hemisphere. So when you hear people like Dr Anthony. Fauci say look. It could be eight weeks. No one has a crystal ball here so I think as you say we have to buckle down. Take care of each other and listen to credentialed medical professionals. But I'm excited for your Special Doctor Phil. You have a special episode airing tomorrow. What can you tell us about? It will woah wanted to do was take the politics out of this and so. I brought in some of the really top people that have immersed themselves in this. We have Professor Paula. Cannon who a microbiologist and immunologist and Dr Sharkawi who is an immunologist Dr Pat Johnson from Cedar Sinai. And we really get the facts about how this pathogen behaves and we really learn the power of washing. Your hands. Washing surfaces have critically important. That is we also talked to some of the people that have been trapped on the cruise ships that actually did get the disease and we have them critical for us the disease process and what they actually experienced and went through that so we talked about that. And we're thrilled that you came to talk to us today. People can watch Dr Phil on his show. Weekdays check your local listings. Thanks for being with us. We'll be right back next. A small business edition a viewer deal. We partnered with vendors for half OP clever products created by small businesses. Today's your deal is putting the focus on small business owners. We've partnered with vendors for half off clever products from small businesses. It's only while supplies last. So let's get shopping with lifestyle expert. My friend thank you honey honey. 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5 - Into Thin Air: The Mysterious Disappearance of Kyron Horman | Mystery and Murder: Analysis By Dr. Phil

Analysis of Murder by Dr. Phil

1:05:38 hr | 1 year ago

5 - Into Thin Air: The Mysterious Disappearance of Kyron Horman | Mystery and Murder: Analysis By Dr. Phil

"Nine years have passed since seven year old. Kyron Horman went missing after after his elementary school science fair in Portland Oregon for years police Karen's mother Desharnais young and the nation have grappled grappled with what has become known as the largest most expensive criminal investigation case in Oregon's history mystery swirled around the seven year olds disappearance disappearance children don't just vanish into thin air on a typical school day and carbon was a happy child who certainly would have never run away at least according to his parents he was well behaved described by his parents is a bit timid scared to do things is by himself not the kind of child who ever caused trouble or would have dared to venture out into the unknown by himself. This was a crime story that had all the hallmarks elements that captured nationwide interest a missing sweet child a family drama that seems straight out out of the daytime soap opera in the stepmother who was suspected to be anything but the caring maternal figure. She presented herself to be now. Nearly a decade later. The media firestorm has halted news vans and camera crews no longer camp outside Sidecar in school or his parents homes the massive searches with volunteer crews of a thousand headwind. Mrs How many cases go when the news of a missing child I breaks the victim's face is plastered on newspaper covers distraught family members or interviews news correspondents co-respondents comment on their theories and on case developments and the parents town at least for a time hug their tildren just a little tighter at night reminded that right in their neighborhood a mother's worst nightmare has happened and that means means he could happen it in but life goes on the pandemonium stops and the initial sting of the story fades reformer fear that Karen's disappearance once caused the masses is now a hazy sad memory instead of current threat. The hush seems to have settled over the case for the past few years according to the sheriff's Office and desharnais herself. The case is still very much active but the trail seems to have gone cold or has it what keeps his case alive even more within the hardworking police is desharnais young's lifelong pursuit to find her son and to solve once and for all the question that haunts our every waking moment what on earth happened to her innocent little boy and is there any chance even the slightest remote chance that he might be still alive living somewhere else. There's a lot of talk doc when it comes to this case about the wicked stepmother. It's what makes for a headline story. The salacious details of a case are what attract public attention we know about. Terry's bizarre actions we know about these was our actions that are alleged to have happened. But what do they tell us us about who she really is. Then on the other end of the spectrum carbons mother de right as an example of the links apparent will go for their child. She's a fire that cannot be put out on this episode will explore the most recent developments in this this case that have given disarray hope that toll chirons disappearance and the dramatic investigation has taken on carbons family and what the future might might hold. Is there really any chance of still finding Kyron or has it come to the point that we're no longer looking for child. We're now looking for a body. This is Dr Phil and you're listening to industry and the mysterious disappearance of Kyron horman looking for ad free episodes of my podcast. You can listen to every new episode. Ad Free only on stitcher premium for a free month's trial stitcher premium go to stitcher premium. I'M DOT COM and use Promo code fill STITCHER PREMIUM DOT COM and use Promo Code P. H. I l. pod swag. Is Your one stop shop for podcasts merch like shirts hoodies mugs assessories and more you get thirty percent off with code fill bill thirty. That's pod SWAG DOT com slash. Dr Phil and use code fill thirty both local searches by thousands of volunteers and professional rescue teams have turned up nothing. I mean nothing in the endless endless years since the worst day of desert as life the day her son Kyron disappeared without a trace from his elementary school but Karen's mother refuses to give up ever since her son. Went Missing Desert Ray has often bravely ventured into the vast green forest of Oregon the herself joining crews who literally leave no stone unturned looking for that little boy or some clue of where he might have gone on and what may have happened to him. They're looking for him. They're looking for a threat of his clothing. They're looking for anything that might suggest a direction that he traveled or that. He may have been taken any clue any physical evidence by joining the search disarray. No she risked the unthinkable. I mean it's a parent's worst nightmare. Possibly finding her son's remains and knowing for certain that her child is dead. I mean think about it you go through the trauma and the shock of your child disappearing the agonizing weeks months and years of worry and wondering how horrific would it be for you to move some leaves or moves some branches or something that was stacked up and find your own child's body underneath it's almost unthinkable but yet she continues to put one foot in front of the other and look for what she both hopes and fears to find she has helped fellow searchers explore floor. Seemingly endless forest and streams desharnais has watched as a searcher finds alone article of abandoned clothing or even a remote bone. It's a pit in your stomach that never leaves not knowing if it's the bone of a wild animal or a piece of your missing sern learn and still as Reagan was looking for physical signs of carbon because not knowing where her son is in constantly wondering appears dead or alive is even more of a daily tour visit ray has to know and cannot bear the thought of living the rest of her life without knowing knowing what has become of Kyran because as the title implies he seemingly disappeared into thin there one moment he was there the next moment he was just gone. How can that what happened. His disappearance was a hurricane that ravaged desharnais interacts husband canes live the aftermath of their son's disappearance impacts packs them to this very day of course you've desert. Ray is the stoppable heroin of this story. The infamous character is allegedly Italy Terry and in the Court of public opinion many believe she is gilded in desert as mine. Terry areas guilty. If not of murder desharnais says Dan definitely of chirons kidnapping now while desert ray has spent the past years living a gut wrenching mystery. She believes that Terri knows exactly what happened. She believes that Terry can unlock this mystery tree that she knows where Kyron is. She knows what happened that she knows the answer to every question that haunts her disarray every minute of every day it's understandable why. Terry is a prime suspect in the eyes of the public and members of carbons family even to this day. We know she didn't do herself. Any favors in the wake of Kyran going missing. Terry slipped all too easily into the role of the lifetime movie villainess step mom some armchair detectives have even referred to her as the wicked red head of the northwest her actions before during and after Cairo disappearance showed a woman who seen vengeful and selfish elfish if you believed everything that was published if you connected the dots that were put out there. We know for example that she's a cheater. We know that she is someone who is hell bent on getting what she wants and has the kind of personality analogy that many described as someone that will not doubt anyone who dares get in her path. These are opinions so are they factual. We don't know the media saw her as a monster hidden in plain sight in Oregon suburbs when you try to prove these opinions when you try to put substance beneath them while it looks bad while some of her her behavior seem tone deaf insensitive non empathetic AAC. We don't put people in jail for not being sensitive leave. We don't put people in jail for not being empathetic. We don't put people in jail for grieving in a different way than we we expect back when she appeared on Dr Phil in Two Thousand Sixteen. I felt like she tried to to avoid by straightforward questions about her suspicious actions in the wake of her stepson going missing in my opinion her go to move was to deflect blame from herself by accusing and speaking negatively of her former has been caned but again those are my opinions. I think they're good opinions because I interviewed a lot of people. I've interviewed a lot of criminals. I'm trained in forensic psychology but I'll I'll let you make up your own mind because if you said to me. Dr Phil prove it. I don't have the proof I have my intuition. I have my opinion and you don't deprive people in America of their freedom based on opinion so let me let you take a listen to what Terry had had to say to me when she tried to explain why she took so long to publicly speak out about the case and the allegations against her. It's six years on now since he's disappeared. Tell me why hi it's taken this long for you to want to speak out and set the record straight and clear your name about this because you say there are so many misperceptions why wait this long to try to correct those. I haven't wanted to wait this long. I was advised when they beginning by along forsman by my husband at the time by attorneys in the beginning not to say anything. I was advised not to voice wanted to you. I've asked multiple times to to speak out and have not been allowed really frustrated that it's been six years people telling you not to talk because people have nothing to hide hide. Nothing and a little boy has been missing for six years and this is the number one talk talk show in America. This is the number one place you can come and get in front of the most eyeballs across this country to raise awareness beat the drum and hold this little boy's face at picture up and people tell you don't come and do that. That is bizarre to me. I I thought it was bizarre. Them and I think is bizarre. Now think about this if you are not only innocent but you also missed the child and a child that you have been helping to raise by your description as your own you would think you would to do anything to clear your name and encourage people on any media platform. You can get to help to find the real perpetrator in what I mean by. That is if you didn't do it. If you're not involved you would rush and volunteer to be excluded. He would say look exclude me. Ask Me whatever you need to do. Give me polygraph take my DNA. Take my blood. Take my fingerprints. Do whatever you have to do to exclude me as rapidly as you can because I don't want you wasting resources fooling around suspecting me I know I didn't do it so so whatever you need to do to exclude me so you don't spend ten percent of your time pursuing me that you could spend pursuing the real perpetrator exclude me quickly and let's get on with finding the real person so when somebody does it do that that seems strange changed to me a lot of you know that. I worked very closely with former. FBI Agent Jack Marco God rest his soul we lost him in the last year and he told me one time that he had interviewed and polygraphed and I don't I don't recall the exact number but it was like fifteen hundred two thousand sets of parents of missing children some guilty some innocent and only one out of two thousand fail to to cooperate failed to take a polygraph failed to step up and do what you would expect a grieving concern parent right to do so. It's very rare that the parent of a missing child doesn't take whatever steps it's necessary to exclude themselves statistically. It's very rare now once you get. Terry talking it becomes clear that her go to move move is as I said in my opinion is to deflect blame from herself by accusing speaking negatively of others whether it's desert array the police her former husband Kane this is what she had to say about Cain and desert raise accusations. I really don't have anything I can say about. Qena that I know that he's lying. He lied through his teeth in order for him to gain a house to gain money. desharnais needs to get a grip and understand this is about finding Kyron and she knows darn well the by misrepresenting by fabricating and just for her hate in me alone she needs is to help get the focus back on him and finding him in Harry's mind. She's the victim the way she sees desert array in Kane conspired against her to pay her as the bad guy. She didn't try to have her husband murdered. He made it up to get her house alson child. She was justified in sexting another man because cain cheated on her first desharnais just hates her so as leading her personal feelings failings takeover hell will freeze over before. Terry takes responsibility for anything she does there. There are just certain people in this world certain personality types that just have a problem with accountability and it permeates every aspect of their life they just have a problem stepping up and owning what they do in their life you find this characteristic runs through a lot of personality disorders. You see it in antisocial personality disorder order you see it in borderline personality disorder. UCF in narcissistic personality disorder so it's not specific to just one type of personality disorder. It's one of those things that underlies a sense of entitlement with people that just don't want to be held L. to countable. They're always in a victim row. They're never accountable. Nothing is their fault. They're always on the side of being the victim of circumstances being the victim of someone else's ill intent but they just don't ever her own. What they've done you know here. You have someone that a very short time. After a child is is missing is reportedly giving into impulses and is sexting someone not their husband and and obviously that's behavior. That's very inappropriate to what would be expected in the situation now. This is inappropriate on several different levels obviously number one. It's inappropriate to be doing that with someone. Not your mate. It's inappropriate appropriate to be doing that in a timeframe when all of your emotional energy you would expect to be absorbed into into the fear and dread associated with a child. You say you've raised as your own being missing. You would be thinking that the person would be playing scenarios out in their head. Where could the child be. What could they be going through right now. Are they. A cold are they hungry are they being molested. Tortured are they perhaps dead and lying in a ditch somewhere you play all these horrific scenarios out in your mind that seems inconsistent with sexual arousal and one would say well then. Maybe it's escapism. Maybe it's behavior where you say. Is this a social eve behavior where somebody this is so painful that they dissociate from that almost like a split personality and run to something else else and that would explain that behavior but that's not what you heard from her. You heard her justify this will. He cheated on me. I you'll fully aware of what she was doing. Just justifying it so it's inappropriate several different levels and that's what I mean when I say she didn't do herself any favors in the court of public opinion when these things come out now is everything that came out into media about her true. I highly doubt it said that she attempted to hire hit man to kill her husband. Is that true. It was alleged. It was not proved if it's true that's very damning timing information. It was certainly talked about a lot but if it was true I mean if there was a basis for this evidence what you would think that she he would have been arrested and charged with conspiracy to commit murder never happened so. I have no doubt that some some of the things that were alleged against her in media were not true but if just the things that she admitted to our true they seem really inappropriate for someone. That was truly grieving. The disappearance and loss of a child and what we do know is that despite Terry Harry allegedly being the last person to see the child live there was no physical evidence or any kind of trail ever sovereignly linking her uh to his disappearance even so because of how she was portrayed in the media and because of of those things that she actually admitted to Terry will likely wear an imaginary scarlet letter the rest of her life. She's known as the woman in who allegedly wanted her husband and step child in despite her repeated and consistent claims of innocence since despite the fact that her life up to that point gave no indication no clue of any criminal motivation or any any criminal conduct. She was trained as a teacher. She chose to work with children. She aspired to be a superintendent. She aspired appeared to be in a career that was devoted to the development of children so there's just no easy answer in the real world in real life cases. They don't get solved in fifty nine minutes and fifty seconds when the music track clicks aw that's what happens on TV. That's not what happens in real life. Many of those passionate follow this case think that tears guilty both of carbons parents think that Terry is responsible for his disappearance and yet despite the manning circumstantial evidence surrounding Terry and of course police suspicion. She has still never been formerly charged with any kind of criminal behavior regarding his disappearance. Whether Terry was involved in cars ars disappearance or is completely innocent. Her life changed forever on that Fateful Day in June of twenty ten her life changed changed and enlists Kyran his failed and or someone else is deemed responsible. A cloud of suspicion and whispers will follow her wherever she goes she is clearly a social pariah as the famous saying goes mother knows best so as desharnais right is her maternal instinct correct is TERI walking free for a heinous crime the abduction and possibly the murder of her stepson despite tons of both public and police pressure Terry has never once wavered from her statement that she is completely innocent and and she would never hurt carbon and while Terry may not be voted wife or mother of the year then ear her affair air and other suspicious behaviors. Don't necessarily make her guilty. There are a lot of people guilty of infidelity who didn't kill L. E. Buddy for a long time desharnais clung to the hope that police would charge Terry. She still does nearly a decade that cade later during the investigation. Terry seemingly raised enough red flags to SOA quilt desharnais holds out hope because is there is not the statute of limitations on the crimes. She believes Terry guilty. There was the affair the alleged murder-for-hire plot against Kane in her seemingly cold and distant demeanor and actions the day of and following Karen's disappearance that all had to mean something right to this day. Delray has a flicker of hope that someone someday somewhere we'll hear something or glean some new information from Terry sorry or new evidence that finally proves her guilt and forces her to answer to the law she doesn't win. She doesn't know how she doesn't know why maybe Terry will get intoxicated. Somewhere and loose lips sink ships. Maybe she'll say something somewhere someday that she shouldn't say and and it will lead to finding out something that she does want found out. Disarray doesn't know how it'll happen. She just hopes that it will so so. Let's talk about where. Terry is today. On our last podcast we detailed a dramatic divorce. Proceedings between Terri and Karen's father came. This wasn't just a marital split cane claims he feared for his life and wanted a restraining order against Terry Portland judge signed off on the divorce and order in December of twenty thirteen. Kane got to keep the house in Portland and got custody of their daughter Chiara. The woman Cain had once welcomed into his son's life the woman he had exchanged thous with and shared a bed with was now the woman he believed responsible for his child's disappearance. Not only that Cain believes to this day that Terry also wanted him dead. Kane may be free from Terry now at least on paper uh but his missing son and the former couple's daughter Chiara bind them together forever Karanitski Ours half-brother. If if Terry did harm him then she hurt her own daughter's blood and deprived her of a sibling terry tried relocating leading to another small town near Portland to live with their parents and start with a clean slate but the move did not help her lead a normal life after finding Oregon liveable due to the accusations in media frenzy surrounding the case she packed up and moved down the coast to start again and to try and start a new life. DMV records show terry relocated to Sacramento California. She is also also made multiple attempts to change her name. One of the new name she tried to adopt was Clare Sullivan which is the name of the protagonist tag missed in the nineteen sixties. Murder mystery novel called call in the night. It somewhat eerie that Terry would try to choose this name for herself. In the book. Claire Goes to Paris to look for her missing sister then finds romance and adventure along the way way. I find it a bit on the nose to change your name to a character that is albeit fictionally involved in a missing person's case that seems a little exhibition mystic to me. There's something we talk about. Lynn deception detection called Duping Delight. It's where people kind of do things. They think to get away with and they thumb. I'm their nose at you. They just can't quite keep themselves from rubbing. Your nose in it is that what's going on here. Who knows house. It's also interesting to wonder if Terry related to this character because she fancies herself the glamorous heroine of her own life story forced to live a life on the Lam through no fault of her own but despite her attempts judges repeatedly denied her request to to change her name ruling that Terry Changing her name was just not in the interest of the public however a new life has begun for Terry in in California in some ways she met a man Jose Zeus Vasquez Martinez. She married him in two thousand eighteen finally finally getting her wish for a new last name she now goes by Terry. Vazquez Terry might live in the shadow of looming suspicion but it's away from Oregon. Terry's ex husband. Kane still has custody of their young daughter. Chiara Terry is not in contact with her. She they have gotten yourself to a new town but problems still seemed to follow Terry or rather. She still seems to be causing herself problems. Since Fling California seemingly to escape public scrutiny Terry has had multiple disturbing run INS with the law in Twenty fifteen terry was charged with stealing a former roommates gun. When police apprehended her the gun was on her and yet after she faced a grand theft firearm charge she was still ultimately found not guilty terry was also arrested for driving a stolen vehicle in twenty sixteen and no charges were ever filed against her due to prosecutors not finding enough evidence beyond a reasonable doubt most shocking of all in late twenty sixteen. Terri Horman faced domestic violence charges is after her former boyfriend. Joseph Cristobal accused her of threatening him with a knife. He was granted a two new year restraining order against Terry Terry hormones former boyfriend had this to say in his statement regarding the incident. I'm fearing for my life life. I don't even know what she is capable of. She put a knife kitchen knife to my face and threatened. Something is going to happen to me me or my family. If I spoke to police hearing about Terry serious run INS with the law following chirons disappearance did not surprised surprised as array. She told one local. NBC News Outlet. I think her time is running out. I think she knows that we're getting closer and closer to her and I think that she rightly so should be scared. Disarray went on to say about about her son's former stepmother. I am extremely concerned at someone else will be hurt by Terri Horman before she is put in jail. She needs to know that she is. I'm not above the law and we need to hold her that measure and expectation when it comes to the law. Terry seems to have the nine lives of a cat. Let's take a stroll down. Memory Lane of the other two major alleged crimes. She was suspected of prior to these offenses. The murder-for-hire plotted for former husband Kane which resulted in him divorcing her and getting a restraining order against her as well as of course suspected but never proven involvement in her steps as disappearance now common sense says that if you have just been put under the microscope by law enforcement and public opinion regarding your step son's disappearance and you managed somehow to wiggle your way out of that situation situation without any charges you would think you would thank your lucky stars and try to clean up your act and keep your head down and stay off police radar but that's obviously not the case with Terry. She seems to be acting without any concern concern for consequences whatsoever. Now ask yourself this. How many people in your life do you know that have been suspected acted of kidnapping murder for hire plots and have not one but two restraining orders against slam by men. WHO FEAR FOR THEIR LIVES? I'll give you a minute count up. I'm guessing it's a pretty short list. She is at best a statistical anomaly. You might think that's all to the story of Terri but is not the alleged lead skeletons in this woman's closet just seem to keep piling up in twenty seventeen seven years after carbons disappearance. Terry he was living in Roseburg Oregon with her parents trying to salvage what was left of a reputation and police found themselves with yet another allegation Asian of a murder for hire blob another one of Terry's boyfriends alleged that thirty years prior Terry had wanted him dead and and had put a plan into motion to get rid of him. According to Terry's former boyfriend shawn ray his life threatening incident occurred all the way back in Nineteen Ninety when Terry was twenty years old and Sean was Eighteen Sean alleges that it was a typical day for the young couple they were seated on the front lawn of Terry's family home in Roseburg Roseburg. They hid just sat down to eat when a strange man suddenly appeared sean claims he came out of the bushes. The ambush was terrifying for Sean. He says the man brandished a gun but thankfully didn't fire any shots according to Sean Terry said and he quotes. It's he's here for you. The things like that just didn't happen in their small town. Why would a man suddenly luggage out out of the Bushes and start making threats waving a gun around assure -Tarian Sean didn't have a perfect relationship. She was known to be controlling a an aggressive but to have him murdered the encounter left. Shawn Deeply Afraid Attari needless to say he broke up with her soon after he moved away and was relieved to get some distance as we know that day in nineteen ninety wouldn't be the last time Terry would allegedly cause a man the feel uneasy decades later when carbons investigation was underway. Sean stated that the Sheriffs told him that a prison inmate confessed that he had been approached decades ago for a murder for hire the person who hired him the prisoner claimed was none other than Terri Horman and that Terry's intended target was Sean Ray according to police the jailhouse snitch is account of the nineteen ninety ambush rush matched sean story once again while further details of this case were not made public charges is were never made against Harry and while it's not clear why this hired assassin didn't end up pulling the trigger. It's another alleged example of a lover ever who claims to have narrowly escaped. Terry's alleged web of hit me and and I do emphasize the words alleged and escaped. No shots were fired. She denied the allegations allegations. She was not arrested. She was not charged. She was not tried and she certainly was not convicted. My wife Robin says says it's never too late to start a new future so anytime your skin needs a fresh start. 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It was so selfish so cringe-worthy that it was just straight up tone deaf and insensitive and you know the things that I'm talking about going to the gym to work out the day. Her Stepson went missing without a trace with with her husband at home despondent. She was sexting with another man. She allegedly wanted her husband Kaine. The list goes on and on with her. Her alleged strains co behavior some of it. She admits to some of it she doesn't when you take a step back and look at all of Terry's alleged crimes times and then you parse out those things that she admitted to and you trace this all the way back to her youth. Does it tell you how she operates. Does it tell you the kind of person she is. I can't sit here and tell you that she's a kidnapper. I can't tell you that she's a murderer. I can't tell you that she conspired to do either of those things but if I take away the allegations Gatien's and just look at the things that she admits to however reluctantly she certainly seems to have a problem with impulse control and emotional stability and if the murder for hire and domestic violence allegations are true tears of type of person who might just see the people is disposable. If she sees someone is a problem she might just see violence as the answer. Is it that much of a leap leap to assume someone capable of these alleged acts would also be capable of kidnapping child. Perhaps even murdering child. I I have met Terry. I've talked to Terry interviewed Terry. Ask Her questions. I've observed her behavior listened to her the answers but I've done no formal evaluation of her. I've certainly not treated her to gain any insight into her personality across first time and it would be irresponsible and unethical of me to render a diagnosis of her here. I can tell you what I do know about. Her is unsettling blink. There's no disputing. This woman has a history of deceit. She's been caught in numerous lies. She seems to look out for herself. She seems aims to put herself as a number one priority. She doesn't seem to have the ability to sustain stable. long-term relationships ups when things go south in one place she can always leave town and restart. If these accusations are true. She's the type of person who puts herself under needs before others. Even if that means it puts others in danger and of course one of the strangest things about this case is that this woman is a mother herself. Alf because in addition to her stepson Kyran tear has two other children Kiara the daughter she shares with Kane in an older son from another marriage and her actions. Just don't align with someone who puts her children. I everything she has done seems to have pushed him further away because because of her alleged murder for hire plot terry has lost custody of jar in her divorce with regard to her former boyfriend that she allegedly put a knife to his face. He also threatened his family. If that's true it suggested if you get on Terry's wrong side ride. She won't just come after or threaten you. She may also target those you love when you hear something like that of course Corset hearkens back to chirons case it was alleged that terri resented Kyran. She resented Cain. They're Mary's was going south. Nothing could of hurricane more than making something terrible happen to his child. As desharnais sought canes cheating could have been a motive for Terry to try to punish him in a crewless way apostle. I said Terry's relationship with the law was like the old superstition about the cat even in that superstition the cat add only has nine lives so you have to wonder if Terry's luck with the law will ever run out his desharnais always always says statiscal take one small slip up on her part and this house of cards can come tumbling down if Terry does know something something or if she did hurt Carin. Does she feel remorse or guilt. It does not appear so but then of course that could be because she has nothing to feel guilty the about. She says she feels terrible about it. If these recent allegations are valid then she may be as volatile as ever but then again she's been through the wringer she has been convicted in the court of public opinion and I know that can change a person person. Maybe it's really affected her and caused. Instability caused. Impulsiveness caused a low frustration tolerance. None of us can say for certain that she's guilty in the case of Carbon Hormann but she sure made it impossible possible for the public to believe her the alleged criminal acts only served to heighten public suspicion and make de ray even more certain than ever that she intentionally he plotted to cause car in harm s for Kane the now ex husband of both desert and Terry well. He still lives in Oregon where he is raising Kiara for the past eight years he has organized kearns car show the charity event that raises money for Kyron Horman German Foundation which spreads awareness for Kyron and other missing children hundreds gathered at the most recent car show of it this past August Cain has stated that he believes his son is very much alive. He doesn't hope he says he believes he certain he has to believe that carbon is alive in order to push forward in this interview in Twenty Fifteen Cain spoke out about how he deals with believing his ex wife. Terry was was involved in his son's case in a way it was a very high price cards disappearance brought disarray and Kane closer together back when they sat down for an interview with me I urge them to put their differences aside in the face of this tragedy that happened to both of them they both I believe they were deeply betrayed by the woman Cain Mary they understand each other's pain they both Mr Son terribly and share each other's crippling appling worry and fear over what might have happened to the boy both disarray and Kane regularly speak to detectives hoping that one one day the code will be cracked and it will lead them to their missing son. This is a sad case that started with a missing child but became a circus of Intrigue League because of Cain and Terry's imploding marriage antares alleged wild and suspicious antics what really matters and all that is left now that the dust is settled is that a child is still missing still missing after all these years in that his parents miss him every single day one of the most unnatural things in this life. Life is for a parent to bury their child. There is a cycle of life. Nobody's getting out of this alive. We're all born. We live our lives and then in the cycle of life we pass on our children are supposed to bury us not the other other way around. It's out of SYNC. It doesn't fit our psyche. It doesn't make sense to our minds or our hearts. It turns everything upside down when you deal with the shock and the unnatural circumstance of burying your child child rather than them burying you. It's a shock to your system. It's a shock to your psyche but add to that that the child is lost but you don't know what happened to them. You're robbed of the natural grief process. You're robbed of the piece that you can fine nine from getting closure about your emotions and finding a place to put this. It's replaced with fear depression the feeling that you've failed to protect your child this can absolutely dominate your life and rob you of so many things in your life that you would ordinarily richly deserve and richly experience it can rob existing existing surviving children of their complete emotionally available parent because they only get part of you because part of you has been taken away by this unresolved loss of the missing child. It's called Ambiguous Vegas loss closure. The pain in the confusion can last a lifetime. It just goes against the human need for clarity eric the human need for knowing so you don't create monsters in your mind and this can often cause prolonged grief and grief grief can turn into depression and in depression can turn into paralysis in your life. What does family really really needs to do is find a way to strike a balance of keeping hope alive that carbon will be found while simultaneously grieving leaving his absence not his death but his absence and the best way to do that is to compartmentalize their devotion to finding him. I don't want them to forget about him. I don't want them to stop looking. Stop coping stop trying to bring justice to whoever is responsible for what happened to him but when I say compartmentalize I mean just that mean. Maybe you say I'm going to work on this afternoon a week or two hours a day three days a week and the rest of the time. I'm GONNA give of myself permission to say. I cannot think about that right now. I've got other children to deal with. I have a relationship to deal with. I have a life to deal deal with and I'm not gonNA feel guilty that I'm not thinking about every waking moment because I'm going to assign myself times and maybe a place in the house where we keep records and maps and everything that go into the investigation. That's what I call the police department. That's what I talked to the investigators. That's when I review any new information. I'm going to work on it. During these designated times in a designated place and the rest of the time time I give myself permission to not feel guilty that I have abandoned or betrayed the child or his memory. You just can't get stuck. The reality is you may never get the answers that you long for it could be that the child is lost forever and you will never get the answers you're looking for and if that's true destroying drawing to live three lives four lives. Does it make it better. It only makes it worse. It's a balance it's hard to find and it really requires you giving yourself permission in thinking through the fact that you're never going to forget and it. It's is not a betrayal to find joy in your life the shockwave of this or still felt by this family today. Disarray has never given pope. She is the child's mother she has in the past put blame unfairly on herself saying she should have been there air with him at the science fair instead of Terry if she had had custody of Chiron if she had been there but playing the what if game doesn't change reality what could have happened did and if anyone has the ability for see that kind of thing they would be king king of the world. It's narcissistic to think that you have the ability to foresee these things and be all things to all people. You simply can't do do that and you can't do that to yourself. It certainly is not does raise fault that just adds to the guilt and paralysis assist the family but desharnais is driven and during a recent interview. She brought up an interesting point. She claimed that despite law enforcement having probable probable cause they ultimately decided not to arrest Harry she referred to the infamous Casey Anthony case as a reason for what she believes is a delay interesting. Terry back in two thousand eleven prosecutors charged Casey Anthony before her daughter Kayleigh Anthony's body body had been found the evidence law enforcement had against Casey was overwhelming but she was ultimately acquitted and desharnais believes that the outcome of that trial set a new precedent for other missing children cases by the time the trial came around the jury felt they could not officially determined determine who actually killed a little girl and with that Casey Anthony the woman who at the time was known as the most hated woman in America walked free without a body and no physical evidence. There's not enough to hold Harry questionable life decisions in a mother's. Gut reaction are just not enough to indict say law enforcement is probably probably right going after a murder conviction without a body is possible but it's also very risky there are other famous cases in the media where body discovery spurred legal action Lacey Peterson's disappearance while her husband Scott Peterson's suspicious suspicious behavior and actions were causing mounting evidence. It was not until her corpse washed ashore aw that they apprehended and arrested Scott there are guvener other cases to count of missing children with cases that are near impossible to prove without the discovery of a body or a perpetrators confession take for example the famous case the ATM Patsy a six year old boy from New York City who was abducted on his way to a school bus in nineteen seventy. It became known as one of the most hosts mysterious unsolved missing child cases in the city's history. There were no clues like this case. The child appeared to have vanished into thin air for more than thirty years. E Tans parents never stopped trying to find out what happened to the side. Just like desert after decades aged tips and leads it went nobre. Their sons murder was only saw when his killer who at the time was a local corner store employee. Roy Confess to brutally strangling even with a confession investigators have still never been able to locate body of course there is still the possibility and hope that carbon could be alive while the odd seemed to decrease with every passing year desert race faith is kept alive when she hears other miracle stories of missing children that are alternately safely returned home his Kyran still out there. Where did he wander off it. Someone have there is on the shy good natured seven year old boy and one day they decided sided distraught. There are other theories besides tear. There are of course cases of children and adults alike go missing mm for years are held in dire circumstances against their will in a one day found. I interviewed Michelle Knight. One of the three young women held captive by Ariel Castro in a derelict house in Cleveland when the women finally escaped it was a story that shocked America. They were missing for almost eleven years and almost everyone I thought the girls were dead for the world and for the families of these girls to learn that they were not only alive but have been kept prisoners by a monster in the house of horrors for more than ten years reinforced the idea that when someone is missing you just can't know for sure what's happened while you ought to prepare the loved ones of those missing for the very worst it could possibly happen. There is always hope. Investigators do not comment publicly on his case vase because it is an active investigation. However desharnais says that the case has been very active in the past two years on Jud Fourth Twenty nineteen nine years after her seven-year-old son banished disarray held a press conference at local fire and rescue station in Portland Oregon right right near carbons elementary school she stood solemnly at the podium with her new husband Medford County Police Detective Tony Young at her side posters of smiling photos of current surrounded her during her statement and as she fielded questions from reporters desharnais wiped away tears with her emotions overcame her one of the most revealing pieces of information desharnais disclosed during her interview was that search area for Kyron has now been limited to one hundred acres does that mean police have some information that helped him narrow down the search area desert also revealed during the press conference that she would soon release a book that she co wrote with New York Times bestselling author Rebecca Morris titled Love. You forever the search for Kyron Horman title comes from the well-known saying disarray had with carbon based on their favorite favorite children's book love you forever like you for always as long as you're living my baby you'll be once published. Disarray says a proceeds from the book will go to Missing Children nonprofit organizations of her choice. She says the book will feature a new inside inside perspective about her unique experience with past nine years and what they have done to her and her family the book will contain excerpts of desert raised journal Entries Patrice from that time and since as well as the story of how in the process suffer pain she transformed from a mother to a missing child advocate she has spoken at events like National Missing Children's Day speaking about her son but also lending support to others in her position. DESHARNAIS will not let this case go cold without a fight during a press release. Desharnais also claim that she had tried every possible way communicate with Terry. She said she would even be open to receiving an anonymous letter from Terry that can't be traced if it would only help lead to the discovery of her son. This isn't about getting revenge on the woman. Disarray believes is culpable. Terry's alleged guilt takes a back seat and as arrays mind. She just wants to find her son. Terry now refuses to cooperate with law enforcement or anyone who is associated with trying to solve carbs disappearance desert race powerful emotional closing during the press conference his plea to keep her son's case and memory alive live wherever desharnais go she wears her circular pin with a photo of Kyran face when she finds herself striking up a conversation with a stranger she she says they often tell her how much they were affected by the story of the sweet little boy in glasses who went missing sometimes people ask who he is also because the story was now so long ago no matter where disarray is whenever she gets the chance. She tells him about her little boy that did he is still out. There any needs to be found at her home. In Medford Oregon disarray has kept chirons room a sacred place. The Room is painted a soothing. Pastel blue and the walls are covered with decor that say positive messages like love. The bed is perfectly made as though it's ready for Kyron to come home and sleep in it at any moment but the most prominent feature of the room all the photos of Kyran cover the walls also even hang like a banner above the bed photo show the brief seven years. That desert got to have with her son. She said to a reporter that she made this room because she quote wanted a place. I could smile again and not just have tiers. If Kyron is is alive today he seventeen years old. He supposed to be a senior in high school if he were here. Maybe he would be on a sports team. Maybe it'd be thinking thinking about prom where he might want to go to college about the promising future that lies ahead instead on race front lawn his carbons missing poster later on the left is a photo of his seven-year-old face grinning out at the world from the day of his disappearance. He's a child frozen in time without a care in the world completely unaware that in moments his life would be forever changed on the right is an age. It's progress photo that shows current at age fourteen. His family would do anything for that photo of what carbon might look like as a team to become a reality to once again be able to see him in person disarray says she will not ever remove this side and lesson until her son is found. It's a symbol of the only thing desharnais wants out of life the safe return of her little boy. The caption on the side could be Karen's words. The sign reads pleading Louis help. Bring me home. Thank you for listening. Dr Phil Beauty Sleep is real a learned all this from my wife Robin. She's the creator of Robin McGraw Revelation and some of Robin's most effective. The products are designed for night time use only. That's why you're going to love your beauty sleep. Even more with Robbins retinol night serum called welcome back youth retinol Latin all a form of vitamin A. Bush's fresh new skin cells up to the surface and vitamin C. In the night. Serum brightens you up for an even clear glow. Get your welcome back youth and everything else you need for your beautiful best at Robin McGraw Revelation Dot Com.

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1 - Beautiful Victim Or Killer Wife? Mystery And Murder: Analysis by Dr. Phil

Analysis of Murder by Dr. Phil

43:58 min | 1 year ago

1 - Beautiful Victim Or Killer Wife? Mystery And Murder: Analysis by Dr. Phil

"It was a tragedy that would shock everyone I in the city of Tulsa Oklahoma and ultimately nationwide anyone anyone would look at amber and Josh Hill Rolling and think these are two people that one life's lottery amber the five five petite golden girl from one of Tulsa Oklahoma's most affluent families her stepfather are a prominent and highly successful plastic surgeon her mother a beautiful and accomplished woman in her own right definitely provided her a privileged if not pampered life josh a handsome six-foot-four former football star was very well known in town where football is a second religion now having joined the Air Force. He cut a striking figure in his full dress military uniform. This couple was a head-turner anywhere they went. You just couldn't overlook the guys envied him. Girls envied her. They were glamorous popular in love. They had the world by the tail when Josh received orders to be stationed at Aisin Air Force Base in Alaska they were less esten thrilled. They weren't married yet and housing on this base was for married. Couples live in girlfriends. Just didn't work off base housing was not realistic giving location while neither the families thought a hurry married was is necessarily the best idea they weren't shocked when the couple held a quick courthouse civil ceremony so amber could make the move with Josh after all they were very much in love and would let nothing keep them apart so oh civil ceremony took place and move together. They did military life in Far Away isolated and unfamiliar Alaska with no family or friends support was not an easy time for the couple but surprisingly soon josh would be honorably discharged they would return to Tulsa but yet the strain of that time in Alaska was clearly showing on the couple and to complicate the relationship further beautiful nineteen eighteen year old five foot five inch amber was now well on her way into a pregnancy what happened within weeks of their return to their beloved hometown back into the cradle of family and friends I would start a chain of disastrous events that could not be undone and would change the lives of everyone involved. Are you just so done with your complicated skin care routine. Yes well my wife. Robin unjust created peace out. I'm done my sale multi complex cleansing toner to hydrate and balance your skin cleanse your face in spritz peace out. I'm done onto a cotton pad stroke the pad over your skin to whisk away every last trace of makeup and grime Um and don't rinse it off just ordered online today at Robin McGraw Revelation Dot Com. That's Robin McGraw REVELATION DOT COM looking for ad free episodes of my podcast. You can listen to every new episode ad had free only on stitcher premium for free month's trial stitcher premium go to stitcher premium dot com and use Promo code fill STITCHER PREMIUM DOT COM and use Promo Code P. The H._i.. L. It all began June seventh twenty eleven the temperature was in the mid nineties hardly a cloud in the sky a man taking a short break outside his workplace enjoying some fresh. I share would later report. He heard a noise a crack of some kind faint crash of glass. Maybe he couldn't be sure but the sound was enough to make him look in the direction of the sound and immediately see something caught his eye. Something was falling from a unique iconic structure in Tulsa called the University Club Tower at just over thirty floors. It's the tallest all residential location in the entire state of Oklahoma Oklahoma alone pillar overlooking the Arkansas River the place to call home for high rise living in Tulsa but what is it that caught his eye. It was not something blowing in the breeze. No this was bigger and it was was heavier because it was dropping like a rock the more he looks he realizes it's a human body and its flailing facing straight down seeming to be riding an invisible bicycle as fast as one could towards the ground Abbadi desperately trying to grab onto something anything but there's nothing to grab onto mid air then a scream rings out from above a scream from a broken window on the twenty fifth floor of the tower he can tell it's a female looking out as the body slams onto the roof of the eighth floor of an attached parking structure Seventeen nineteen floors below the window was the only wide open space on the entire side of the building because like all high rises the windows don't open the sound of the body hitting the landing on that rooftop was unforgettable unforgettable. He is hearing the sound of a human body impacting an immovable object at a speed of over seventy five miles an hour. The fall itself takes between three and four agonizing seconds but the death half is instantaneous as the brain and internal organs virtually split open and just implode that horrifying sight and sound is followed by more terrified screams from the female voice above why well because she is seeing and hearing the same thing but she is seeing it and hearing it from a whole lot closer it is soon learned the screams are coming from the beautiful pregnant newlywed Amber Ember Hill Berlin and the body it is that of her young handsome husband Josh Hillbilly. How do you even fall from a high-rise unless you're on the road? We've all been in them right. The windows do do not open and they are thick and strong for just this reason unbreakable or so we thought was this an accident suicide or something more sinister just how in the world did this happen and this is the case of the beautiful victim or killer wife mystery and murder analysis by Dr Phil. Let me give you a heads up before we start here before this story is fully unraveled. There will be yet another tragic death so shocking so unpredictable as to boggle the mind. You'll be left dumbfounded. I know I was and you and I may wind up contributing to the final chapter of this. This tragic mystery the nine one one call is played for all to hear the entire local media pants on the story with practically minute by minute updates as facts are released and rumors whispered about fatal fall from Tulsa High Rise apartment investigators say twenty three year old Joshua Hill burling fell from the twenty fifth floor of the University Tower on their window out of the probably Nike Four University Club Power Armand had broken down as to this death a neighbor of the hill buildings. Nathan McGowan was in his apartment right next door as the entire event took place he would later say he had heard a verbal fight shouting match going on between the couple that had only lived there for about two weeks and this argument would quickly lead to some other sounds he will not soon forget the gallon would say he heard running like he had never heard before in that building running coming from the left to the right towards the windows and then a crash following that annoys he will never forget the sound of a woman screaming wing no no no at the time. He said he thought maybe someone had pushed over a coffee table or a fish tank and then it got completely quiet eerily quiet but the screaming would start again. Oh my God oh my Oh my God oh my God over and over again amber leaves the window and is next seen rushing across the top level of the parking structure to Josh's body. She yells out for help right away to anyone who who will listen a picture of amber is taken as she approaches Josh from an apartment a few floors up the snapshot of Her Emotional State wearing a white tank top in sweatpants that later would become very important in this mystery free amber kneels down to Josh and rolls him over onto his bag. She picks up his torso while holding his head in her hands then kisses his forehead while hysterically pleading with Josh to wake up the immediate idiot area around Josh and amber as well as the streets close to the tower are in a state of pandemonium almost immediately sirens can be heard still approaching from a distance and arriving now from what seems like every direction on onlookers gather on the eighth floor of the parking garage both out of curiosity and to see if they can help the first policeman on the scene was officer Don Holloway of the Tulsa Police Department he had arrived just after the E._M._T.'s who were trying to attend Josh Amber Reluctantly Lay Josh's head gently down and backed away so the E._M._T.'s could do their work. That's when officer Holloway noticed the emotional woman was pregnant. He already knew the fate of Josh but now his concern seemed to be for amber and her unborn child remember. I said it was ninety. Degrees not a cloud in the sky. He gently pulled her away from the area. <music> Outta the hot sun and just inside the doors of the tower now officer Holloway would describe the immediate situation he said his first impression of what had taken place and also amber state while all alone inside with him away away from Josh was all very chaotic. There was medical personnel fire department personnel police personnel big crowd had gathered outside and he saw josh the victim on the ground Holloway's first thoughts were that he probably had a suicide here or maybe some kind of accidental fall murder he said was the furthest thing from his thoughts at that moment when he met with amber he described her as being very upset and she was crying pleading for Josh she was asking if they were working on him where they getting him back to life or not. He said she appeared very distraught. By this time. The scene was becoming out of control. People were everywhere and officer. Holloway wanted to get the nineteen year old seven month pregnant now widow damper away from there he would walk amber to his car and drive her down to the detectives division of the Department where she and in her grandmother Gloria who had joined amber could have some privacy he directed amber to a chair on one side of the table while her grandmother faced her on the other side as the officer pulled the door closed. He said he was really glad and she had a loved one in the room for support amber sibling had no idea what she had walked into and had no idea it would be a long time before she would ever leave. Her husband was Adele in her life. Her freedom was about to be on the line officer Holloway would later be asked why he put amber in an interrogation room. She wasn't under arrest. She wasn't about to be questioned for anything but he put her in an interrogation room. She was under the impression that he was taking her there to protect her to put her in there to place her away. From the chaos I mean after all she's just gone through a tragic event and she's seven months pregnant but something happened in this room that would turn this entire story into a totally different scenario as I said officer Holloway himself insisted that amber was nothing but a witness to this and when she went into that room he just put her there so he could have somebody with her to help console her to support her to calm home her why because she needed it and it was a convenient place for him to put her officer Holloway was in the adjoining room typing up his report and then all of a sudden he says amber ember started talking about what had happened. Talking to her grandmother. Gloria Holloway was pounding the keys on his laptop in the other room. When certain phrases caught his ear though statements from amber he heard would cause Holloway to start to record everything that was being said in the interrogation room now neither amber nor Gloria her grandmother were aware a camera was pointed directly at amber and that once turned on Sean would record every word gesture sound and emotion that would come from her Amer was distraught understandably very emotional and she was saying things now being recorded things that would later come back the harder? Did I wish I could just get it out of my hand. Every time I close my eyes. I'm GONNA see just want to know. What was going through his head? It'd be new GONNA die. I want you to be here as come back. Please please just going to turn into a nightmare <music> if I can read your mind here for a minute if you're a logical thinker. You're probably saying wait a minute. I've watched enough cop shows lawyer shows to I know you have to read somebody their rights before you can use what they say against them and if you don't then it's not admissible you can't use it against them. In a court of law well <music>. That's not entirely true. Let me preface all of what I'm about to say by saying I am not a lawyer but I have spent much of my professional career in the litigation arena functioning as a trial scientists so I venture to say I do have a fair understanding of the system if anything I may oversimplify here but basically know that there are exceptions to every rule including the rule of law and Miranda typically applies if you who are questioning a suspect but if someone just starts volunteering information if you just overhear someone talking then you're entitled to listen and you are entitled to use what you hear so you may also also think well what about hearsay. That's good thinking but again there are exceptions to the hearsay rule and one of those exceptions is what's called present sense impression statements these statements that are made immediately after a person referred to as a declare it describes what they saw. They see something or perceive something. That's an exception to hearsay. It's so valuable because of its proximity seventy two what happened so present sense impressions mean something somebody says immediately after what they have seen and in this case it was right after amber had been involved in the situation so that was a present sense impression because it was so fresh and this wasn't in response to questioning. She was volunteering this to her grandmother now. A second exception is what is called excited sided utterance where someone is very emotional and so they just blurt things out again not under questioning. They're just blurting things out. Those are exceptions to the hearsay rule and therefore might light be admissible. Now a big question is going to eventually arise as to whether or not amber had an expectation of privacy when she was in this room with the door closed talking to her grandmother. I say it will arise with the court because as you may be figuring out amber this five foot five inch seven month pregnant wife is going to soon be charged with her husband. Josh's Che's murder. The prosecutor is going to say she decided to murder him by pushing him out of their twenty fifth floor plate glass window and that she confessed his much to her grandmother at the police station and they have the right to use it because she had no right to assume that her conversation was private so just know that things are not always as simple as they seem prosecutors would argue amber was not under questioning so therefore had not been Miranda used was voluntarily of her own free will meeting she was not in any way coerced making excited utterances and present sense impression statements to her grandmother and mother and as it turns out the police regarded these as admissions against interest another exception which allows admissibility if you are saying things detrimental to your own case confessions of any any sort that are overheard they can be used against you later at the police station. The police are still observing and critiquing. Everything amber is telling her grandmother Gloria. Gloria is starting to worry about the things her granddaughter daughter was saying and how these things might be misinterpreted by police. He's in God. He's in God's hands. Mail title is not supposed to be but he's God. I'm horrible person who could do that. I wish you could just go back and know that if I pushed him if it's going to happen he quits pushing mouth the window. Did you intentionally no kate. That's what they're gonNA. Take it. Listen to fight for your safety. Go Tale. You just don't say nothing to your attorney gets here okay don't don't don't sleep any other way so they had turned on the cameras and she moved from the category the gory of witness to suspect and her grandmother saying you need to stop talking. You need to stop saying these things because they're going to think the wrong thing. Stop saying what you're saying or you're going to be misunderstood. Stop talking now. She was giving good advice. What she didn't know was that ship had already sailed? She was telling her when they come back in here when you talk to them. You don't want to be saying that kind of thing little. Did she know they were already looking. They were already listening. They were already recording as I said the judge will have a very important decision to make later as to admissibility but at the a time though statements convince the police that this absolutely was no suicide and that they may well be looking at a murderer in the room right next door ambers family would later. I suspect this was officer. Holloway's plan all along right now. I'm wondering what you think is. You're listening to this. Maybe maybe not but understand a police officer's whose job is to solve a crime and they are always on the lookout for something that will solve the puzzle they are always on the lookout for something they can base the`real and then pursue that theory to see if in fact. It's valid so is this just a brilliant officer doing his job. Is this standard procedure to try to get witnesses to a room so they can be recorded without their knowledge. Amber wasn't under arrest. She had no lawyer present. She wasn't being held for questioning. She could have gotten up and walked right out of there. She didn't have to get in the car to go down to the detective division with him. She didn't have to talk to him at all but she did voluntarily is this camera allowed to be switched on can her private statements be used against her. Is this even legal have her rights been violated courts going to have to determine all of this but for now amber was definitely moved from witness to a person of interest in the eyes of the police and her words would continue to dig herself a deeper and deeper hole. Okay listeners talking about Madison Reed here. 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Hello Bello goodbye bad stuff. Detective Jeff Felton was put on the case and immediately interviewed two witnesses to what had happened that day now both were outside bow saw the body dropping and he confirmed in their statements that they observed Josh falling face first from the apartment with things developing in the interrogation room. Detective Felton was informed that amber may have admitted to pushing Josh Gosh but he wanted to investigate the scene upstairs where the confrontation described by the neighbor took place so now we have one two three witnesses that are involved the neighbor next door and the two outside guide and you have to add to that the statements that amber is making to her grandmother which are now on camera detective Felton had heard some of the statements amber had made to her grandmother and been told about others but he still l. didn't really have all the pieces he didn't know the motive behind the push. If it had occurred at least not one hundred percent he didn't know yet if this was a domestic violence situation between them or there was some innocent explanation. Maybe they were just playing horsing around in. She pushed him he stumbled and fell proper procedure would begin with detective making sure the upstairs apartment was secure because it was now a crime scene a crime scene he wanted access to he could work the scene where the body had landed but to get inside that apartment he had to have a search more now. Once that was achieved and the first thing he saw was what was it the furniture was all in place other than the obvious broken window. There was absolutely nothing that would indicate that a struggle had taken place only the pieces of broken glass from the now wide the open window which lay on the carpet below the vertical blinds moving from the blowing wind seem really out of the ordinary because like I say these windows don't open the light fixtures close to the area the picture you're on the wall or anything else had not been moved during this event to detect Felton it was very important and he was beginning to draw his own conclusion as to what took place in that apartment on the twenty fifth floor combined with all of amber statements to Gloria her grandmother in the interrogation room was more than enough for the police they would place amber under arrest and charge her with first degree murder while the charges later switched switched to second degree murder nothing to change the fact that the only thing which had amber now sitting in a sale behind bars was everything said after officer Holloway hit that record detective Felton Elton had come to a conclusion on what he thought took place in the apartment but he didn't need to explain how a petite five foot five inch seven months pregnant girl could move a six foot four two hundred and twenty pound. UNMILITARY may even an inch let alone shove him out a window his answer she caught him by surprise he thinks she shoved him on purpose because there there's no other signs of violence but how could someone so small push this big man out a window. He says he thinks that Josh was messing with the television set and she caught him completely by surprise just ambushed him. He went on to explain his reasoning in more detail saying if you catch someone off guard a big body can actually work against them. I can only assume he means that if you catch a big body off guard and you get them following. That's a lot of mass moving in one direction that's why he leaned so heavily on the surprise attack. He admits if Josh didn't want to go out that window he would not go out that window investigators say the deadly plunge was the result of an argument between Heberling and his pregnant wife Amber police arrested ember he'll Berlin and book the nineteen year old on a first degree murder complaint a witness who says he saw the glass break that night says Josh came out facing forward. The state says that would mean he was pushed from behind improves hct lanes intent initially she would claim it was self defense a battered wife protecting herself and her unborn child will his family didn't believe that for a minute his family believed that behind that sweet innocent face of this nineteen year old mother to be was hiding a cold whole blooded murderer who purposely pushed the man she claimed love to his death. They believe this was a case of domestic violence but it was a case of her being violent against him not look the other way around there. Were many discussion in the media was narratives being pushed in opinions being made the witness claims that he saw the victim the grill come through the window as if he were standing up uh-huh face out there was a man Mr Ross Islas who was repairing a window very very close and he saw this young bride. He said that he had bundled up anger when he saw her shortly after the victim fell to his death during the hour that amber sat in the interrogation room with her grandmother she made yet a few more statements at the police will take note of amber realized. She wasn't the only person who had suffered a traumatic loss that day. I'm here. It didn't just lose my is bid. Jeanie and Badger Gloucester's sack lost his brother wonder if his parents it's now yet they were right. I'm saying if we stay together. I'm GONNA kill him. It's the call no parent ever wants to experience their absolute worst nightmare imaginable notable a call telling you that your child is gone on June seventh gene and Patrick Hilbert being received just that call their son Josh was dead. Josh's younger brother Airman First Class Zach Zac Gilbert Ling was serving a tour in Afghanistan and while he didn't receive a phone call he did get the news of his older brother falling to his death in a horrible way he learned after logging onto facebook. Josh was was Patrick's firstborn son and he was the world to him. He said Josh had a smile. You would never forget a smile that would just light up a room. His stepmother gene called him Josh she she was the only one he would let let get away with calling him Josh. Josh was always looking to help wherever he could even help her cook. She would always remember his tender side. Patrick would say that most others would also remember Josh for his football. He thought thought Josh was so special. On those exciting Friday Nights Zach said Josh was a phenomenal football player. That was his sport. That was his game. That was his first love. I tell you firsthand how big football is in the state of Oklahoma. They're played on Friday nights and Saturday afternoons from a psychological standpoint. We know that the number one stress in life is the violent sudden loss of a loved one is just not natural for parents to bury their children is supposed is to be the other way around as to the case detective FELTON would continue to dig continue to search for a motive why amber would do this he had decided she ambushed him but why and if there was any past behavior would have predicted this behavior for this he would have to go back to the beginning to examine the entire time from when they first met all the way right up to the very moment. Josh went through that window detective she felt would have to go back to two thousand eight when Josh met amber at Halloween Party. They didn't get together right away. As time went on they did however keep thinking of one another each wondering if the other felt the same energy that they felt the girl with cheerleader Prom Queen beauty and the boy the football hero with the all American Prom King looks and later when they started dating Josh Gosh well he swept her off her feet. He was very attentive and would do all the little things to show amber. She was special for example. She didn't know how to dance. It was a little embarrassed but always wanted to learn so one night Josh Josh drove her to the park he said look just put your feet on top of mine and follow me under the stars. Josh and amber would share their first dance. They were too young people in love and everything seemed right the type of young couple you would see a movie but after just a short time of dating Josh received his orders to report to Alson Air Force Base in Alaska and as I said earlier decision was about to be made by two young people just starting their adult lives it was the dilemma that snuck up on both of them but they were determined to stick together. They were in love. Nothing was going to keep them apart. So off to the courthouse. They went for a quick private. Wedding would later have a huge reception for all to a tin but the marriage itself was rushed so amber could follow Josh to Alaska but did this couple know what they were getting into. Maybe the best way to describe rabbit is that amber was she was used to a certain lifestyle her mother would later say that Amer had a routine of being pampered and groom and now you're putting her into a situation where she doesn't know a soul she's. Living in cold dark months of Alaska they're living on a different level of income and many of these moments are just sitting home alone waiting all day for Josh to come home but that wasn't all Amer Amer was pregnant in her mother would describe it as a tornado everything swirling around just too many things happening at once away from all their family and friends Josh and amber began to see they were not as much alike as they thought in fact a young couple could see they were quite different amber would describe Josh as the modest predictable type and herself as the wild hair truth of the matter is things were just going bad. The verbal fights were happening on a regular basis and they were getting worse soon. They would jump to the next level. Parents of both of the newlyweds were receiving emotional calls from their children desperate to get out out of the situation. They were in up north however it wasn't geography. It wasn't Alaska that was the issue it was amber and Josh together. Josh's father would describe how he originally felt about the marriage and all the helpless calls else he would receive from his son to Patrick. The marriage. Just didn't make any sense he felt Josh was making a big mistake. When Josh would call him his son would be in tears and not know what to do? One time she had pushed him down the stairs down into the basement. Patrick could hear her up at the top of the stairs screaming. Who are you talking to? Josh would say he was talking to his father. He had say dad. I don't know what to do Patrick. You tell me you just need to leave. Get Out of there so well before they came back to Tulsa the domestic violence with this couple had already begun in fact one of them filed a restraining order against the other and it wasn't little amber it was josh the order was filed on May nights two thousand eleven just one month before Josh would fall to his death. The document read she grabbed the floor Orlando pushed and through the lamp at me and busted me in the head then ran upstairs saying good. I hope it hurts Josh would receive ten staples and eleven stitches from the object slicing his head open. This was just one more piece helping detective Felton conclude as he did if ever was capable of violence just one month before why would she not be capable of pushing Josh towards glass window returning to Tulsa where they could have a fresh start in a chance to raise their son Levi. Yes they had named their son. They named him the minute. They learned they were having a little boy. Maybe this was all the uncouple needed back to the city. Do they know with their families and friends for support they moved into ambers parents house temporarily until they found a place of their own place where everything they hoped would be better in late. May chose a place as they had talked about before the University Club Tower and one look from the twenty fifth storey window out over the Arkansas River would let them know they were home. However in just a few weeks Josh Hilbert being would be dead in ambers name would be known across the entire country as the woman who killed her husband for amber? It seemed like nothing could stop what was coming. The rich girl pushes military hero <unk> out of the window of death. This narrative was in full throttle with practically every part of the media she was sitting alone in a cell seven months pregnant her husband and unborn sons Father Josh dead and the police is she had already confessed to the murder never did she think all the private words of emotion in the time of shock and immediate loss that she spoke to her grandmother would put her where she now sat words that the public think would soon here as well. Everyone's GonNa think of murder but should they are these in fact the words of a cold blooded killer or are they in fact the words words of a person who is exactly what she says she is. The words of an innocent person is the rich girl kills military hero just to jump to conclusions a one sided narrative being wrongfully pushed by the media. I always say no matter how flat you make a pancake. It has two sides it on the next episode. You're about to hear the other side of this pancake social media had exploded here and it was directed erected amber with facebook quotes. What if we said she should die facebook pages such as justice for Josh and put Amber Hill ruling away for life would quickly cash judgment against Sir one quote in particular would read you disgusting piece of trash after all the pain you've caused for your own selfishness you go against the word of a man? That can't say anything back. You were the aggressor not Josh you did this. I hope you burn in Hell. Amer is about to face a charge that if found guilty could keep her apart from Levi for a very long time but she's he's been offered a deal a deal five years will amber admit her guilt and take the plea does the next chapter in this saga halladay completely different version of what went on one of repeated domestic Jacob use of drug and alcohol issues and of a five foot five seven months pregnant woman doing anything she can to protect her unborn son and again. We'll amber take the deal what did she she decided to do. Plus we add one more witness to this case the last person to see Josh alive other than amber. What was Joshua's demeanor shortly before he died? What was ambers where where was this other witness located and what did he see and hear? You're GonNa find out the answer that question and a whole lot more. I've been talking about this from the police perspective. I've been talking about this from Joshua's his perspective as a victim but trust me there is a whole other point of view here. There's a whole other story to tell from amherst point of view on the next episode of beautiful victim or killer wife mystery three and murder analysis by Dr Phil and don't forget someone else in this story winds up dead who win. Why and how does it fit into?

Josh Amber Josh Josh Gloria Holloway officer Dr Phil Tulsa Josh Gosh Josh Hill Alaska Amber Ember Hill Berlin murder Josh Hillbilly Josh Hilbert Amer Amer University Club Tower Patrick Hilbert Oklahoma amber ember Arkansas River
2 - Beautiful Victim or Killer Wife? Mystery and Murder: Analysis by Dr. Phil

Analysis of Murder by Dr. Phil

53:22 min | 1 year ago

2 - Beautiful Victim or Killer Wife? Mystery and Murder: Analysis by Dr. Phil

"It was a day like any other uh when out of the clear sky handsome young veteran named Josh he'll bring plunged to his death from the twenty fifth story of his high end and high-rise Oklahoma condo building watching from above from behind the shattered window glass is Josh's body smashed into the roof rav of a parking structure seventeen storeys below was Joshua's seven months pregnant wife amber that moment that instant not only snuffed out a young man's life but also led to years of what became life or death accusations and mystery was Joshua's ashes fall an accident or did his beloved wife push him to his death and if she did did she do it on purpose. Well what police he's determined happened and what amber claimed happened in that. Condo were two different tales. It became a case of he said she said except the he said part art was coming from a man in grave. I always say your story goes a whole lot better. When you're the only one around tell it but even with Josh dead the story. Amber told wasn't enough for police to buy that she was innocent and she didn't only claim she was innocent. She claimed she was the real real victim. If you watch my show you've probably heard me say the most important person in an individual's life is their same sex parent and in the moment josh plummeted to his death half his unborn child who would be named. Levi lost that person in that moment Levi was sentenced to a life without a father he had never get Tausif football with his dad or go on a father son fishing trip he had never even meet or no his father he was robbed of that relationship and tragically what no no one knew back then as a police zeroed in on amber is a suspect is that blaming her for Joshua's death might ultimately cause Levi to spend his entire childhood without his mother or his looking for ad free episodes of my podcast. You can listen to every new episode. Ad Free only on stitcher premium for a free month trial stitcher premium go to stitcher premium dot com and use Promo code fill STITCHER PREMIUM DOT COM and use Promo Code P. H.. I l. are you just so done with your complicated skincare routine. Yes well my wife. Robin just created peace out. I'm done my sale multi complex cleansing Tony to hydrate hydrate and balanced your skin cleanse your face then spritz peace out. I'm done onto a cotton pad stroke the pad over your skin to whisk away every last trace of makeup and grime mm-hmm and don't rinse it off just order it online today at Robin McGraw Revelation Dot Com. That's Robin McGraw Revelation Dot. com amber was only nineteen years old. When Josh died. She was beautiful with a big white smile shiny brown hair and perfect skin the type of girl that was clearly a cheerleader popular and well-liked she'd been a beautiful bride wearing a Tiara and a princess dress on the outside her life with Josh looked. It's like a fairy tale and amber did not look like a killer but can looks be deceiving. Police said amber certainly played the part in the moments and hours after Joshua's death. She was the picture of a greeting wise. After Josh fell amber rushed to the elevator and immediately ran to her husband's body rolled him over cradled his head in her hands pleading for someone to get help by the time paramedics arrived amber it was hysterical and repeatedly begged them to quote fix him. A neighbor also reported. He heard amber screaming. No no no in the milliseconds seconds before he heard the crashing sound of shattering glands even though the couple had just celebrated their one year wedding anniversary and had a baby on on the way police quickly theorized that the honeymoon was over that this was no happy couple and from the very first time amber set foot in the station they began to suspect that she had shoved Josh out the window intentionally because they were a young and beautiful beautiful picture perfect couple. The story rapidly went from local news story to one that grabbed national headlines. Everyone loves a beautiful killer wife and that's what police were telling the media they had new stations showed a beautiful photo of the couple looking like it was torn from Bridal Magazine magazine but along with it where the headlines allegations of physical in drug abuse misery and murder out a window broken broken we fell down that fatal fall from Tulsa High Rise apartment police arrested and booked the nineteen year old on a first degree murder complaint. A witness says Josh came out facing forward toward the state says that would mean he was pushed from behind improves over lanes intent. She said she was only trying to get him off her when she pushed him and as soon as he fell through the window she ran to it. She says she went downstairs to where he was enrolled him onto his back and kissed him and was crying hysterical. The media ran with a killer wife story and so did police and prosecutors who <music> set out to prove it but when it comes right down to it they're only to people who really knew what happened inside that room high in the sky that day years after Joshua's fall questions remain about what really happened and why what led up to him going out that window and what possible motive could be involved if in fact he was pushed Joshua's family the police and the courts stand by the police's leases theory an angry hateful wife shoved her husband to his untimely death but amber claimed she was living a secret life of hell with Josh and it she was the real victim in all of this her family insists that is true to this day they claim amber was a battered wife and because has of her unborn child she was finally strong enough and brave enough to defend herself against her abusive husband. She wasn't just standing up for herself Alf. She now had another life to protect that if her child and her maternal instincts they say took over in this episode. We'll look at the story from ambers point of view. You'll have a chance to make up your own mind. You're listening to episode two of a beautiful victim or killer wife mystery and murder analysis by Dr Phil when investigators initially arrived on the scene they treated Amber Hilbert being as a witness to her husband's tragic death not as a suspect amber was so distraught that an officer gave her a ride into the Tulsa Police Department and put her in a room an interrogation room with someone he thought might comfort her her grandmother. He hoped the older woman could help call member down as amber cried to her grandmother. She had no idea that everything she was saying saying would eventually be. She claimed twisted and used against her. He's still alive way. Grow it. You could do the murder hearing amber. Say those words sounded to police a whole lot right like a confession. They were the first thing investigators used to start building a case proving ambers guilt but were the statements amber made in in that room proof of her guilt. I mean come on anyone who pushed their husband out a window to their death. Even if it was an accident would it naturally feel guilty right. I mean from a psychological standpoint if you are present and certainly if you are involved in an an accident isn't the first thing that people say I blame myself. Oh my gosh what have I done. How could I have let this this happened. People default to self recrimination. Is that abnormal that she blamed herself claiming. I killed him. She did kill L. Him. She never denied that she was an agent of change. She was an agent of action in the chain of events that resulted in him being on top of that parking garage. She never denied that a person who has nothing to hide hides. Nothing amber admitted admitted right then that she had pushed her young husband and that as a result of that push that he did impact the living room window Ndo that it did break and that he did fall out that window but was this an intentional act. Was this even a reckless act act. If someone is going to take someone's life is pushing them out a window behind drawn shades what what comes to mind as a method of ending someone's life. Is this an efficient way to murder someone. We've all been in high rise buildings. We've of all leaned up against windows. We've all tapped windows. We've all seen chairs bump into windows and we all have the sense that those windows those are pretty much unbreakable. We certainly don't walk around our high rise. Residences offices doctors offices dentist offices attorney's offices thinking if I bump into that window I'm going out. That's just not our mindset psychologically but police weren't just listening listening to what amber said in that interrogation room they were also listening to her grandmother's responses and her grandmother gave amber. What police interpreted as face serious warning. Did you could do that. They push him out the window when they come in and say. I don't want to stay in my target okay. Don't don't don't sleep any other way. Don't break. Don't slip up now any of you who has ever watched even one episode of Law and order knows that this is actually sound advice. You just don't speak to to police without an attorney present. We all know the Miranda rights or at least this part of them. You have the right to remain silent and everything you say okay can and will be used against you in a court of law. I spoke about this in episode. One ambers grandmother saying the words don't say anything don't slip don't break may have been just a loving grandma trying to help her granddaughter but hearing it what it could could have been interpreted as was. She was warning her granddaughter to shut up. Get Her story straight and don't slip up work work this out in your head before you speak think I talk later now as I said. The argument can be made if you have nothing to hide. Why do you need to censor your words. Why do you need to think about what you say before you say it. If you have nothing to hide that's what the police would say say but that's pretty naive because someone listening may have an agenda and their agenda may be. I need to solve this case. I need to close this case. I need to find someone to hold accountable for this and if you say something that is ambiguous something that is unclear something something that is open to interpretation and it is filtered by someone who is looking for a person to pin it on a person to hold accountable. They could clear that ambiguity up to your detriment. Maybe grandma was saying you're really beating yourself up right now. You need to get a grip on yourself before before you start talking about what has happened here and I'm not saying that the police or the detectives are evil here. They have a job remembered. Detectives objectives and law enforcement officers make their life's mission to solve crimes to bring justice to victims and because of that conversation they believe Josh was a victim and. Once they made up their mind they never wavered now. If that convinces you like it did the police that Amer was guilty. I'm asking asking you to step back from those preconceived notions and really listen to what amber and her family claims really happened with an open mind. Now that's easier easier said than done why only talk about the psychology behind that we tend to believe ourselves right. If you think the next step yep you take in the dark is going to be off of a steep ledge or cliff. You would fight viciously to keep from taking that step why because we tend to believe ourselves. We don't think that we will lie to ourselves if we say something to ourselves if we speak to ourselves we we tend to believe that we're going to tell ourselves the truth. That's why if you have a negative internal dialogue and say that you're second class you tend to live like a second second-class person in generate second-class results. That's why if you tell yourself. You're being victimized by somebody. You tend to feel like a victim victim. We believe what we tell ourselves. If you are telling yourself that this person in this case amber hilling is guilty. You're you're going to believe yourself and that's going to cause you to seek out information that validates confirms and fortifies your belief. You're not not going to look for evidence. That proves you wrong. Because you want to be right you believe yourself. It's called confirmation bias and we'll talk about that a a bit more later on but just be aware when I ask you to step back from that. You have to make a conscious decision to say okay. I may not know Oh everything about this. There could be some things that would change my mind if I keep an open mind and here's what I'm talking about amber insisted and her family still insists to this day that to truly understand why and how this tragedy happened you have to go all the way back and look at what had been building up to a boiling boiling point since the very beginning of amber and Josh's relationship while listening to this tragic tale and all that led up to the instant anthony. Josh fell to his untimely death. I'm asking you to listen with a mindset of what you would do if you had to decide vis nineteen year olds fate if you were sitting on a jury if you had to decide what the consequence should be for somebody that admits it's being involved but you had to decide their motive. They're intent why they did what they did when they did it. Do you think it doesn't matter or do you think does. Is there a difference between someone that swerves their car up on a sidewalk and runs over your foot. God clearly on purpose versus someone backs out of the driveway and accidentally runs over your foot and had no idea it was there. Is there a qualitative difference between those two things. Both of them ran over your foot. Is there a difference between the two ax and that's what Amber Ember Hilbert being is asking to be considered here. I'm sure some of you may already have zero doubt in your mind as to what happened inside that apartment. You may think nothing else is going to change your mind and that's what I call confirmation bias and as I said that's the tendency for people to search four interpret favor and recall information in a way that confirms pre existing beliefs and those beliefs get fixed. Here's what you don't know aw about confirmation bias because it's not as obvious further research has shown that even when individuals are presented with direct evidence that refutes the fixed belief they have this only strengthens the original opinion and does not change their mind even just a little. I think about what I just said you think a and someone brings you credible evidence of be and all it does does his cause you to believe a even more you would think no. I wouldn't do that. I wouldn't be that way well. Actually we are all that way why because because we want to be right and so when somebody brings us evidence to the contrary we kind of hunker down we kinda grab our beliefs even harder and say oh wait A. I WANNA DIG in here. You're not going to route me out of my position. I'm committed to it. I'm going to stay with it. I believe myself and so you hunker down in hold onto that even harder and you may think you're immune to that but I promise you that's human nature that is confirmation bias so when I asked you to go into this with an open mind as you listen to amber side of the story. You're going to have to make a conscious decision to say okay. I'M GONNA give myself permission. I'm going to kick the door open. I say that because amber painted a very different picture of Josh in their relationship now of course Josh is not here to tell his side of the story and we you would never wish to speak ill of someone who died in such awful circumstances but this is what Amer claimed was going on behind closed doors and and led up to Josh's tragic deaths. She told the story of a husband she was afraid of the husband with a huge temper the husband who would fly into rage at the drop of a hat a husband who sold and was addicted to drugs a husband who was six foot four and two hundred and twenty pounds a for boating physical presence husband who would go partying to bars and strip clubs with his friends and leave the pregnant woman home alone now was was this true or was angered dirtying her husband's name to justify the fact that he had lost his life amber claimed that while in the beginning her arguments with Josh were just yelling she alleges that soon they became physical she accused Josh rush of hitting and pushing her and even trying to pop her breast implant. Once she became pregnant amber claims she knew she had to not just protect herself off but she now had to protect an unborn child that could not self protect unborn child who didn't get a vote an unborn child who could not stand up for themselves and those motherly instincts came through very strong amber said Josh had been kicked out of the military Terry for using drugs. She said on the day Josh died he had broken a window in a fit of rage after he chose selling pills over attending adding Abbas father's wedding. She says the fight escalated and she pushed Josh in self-defense amber claims the fall was an accident. She never never intended for her husband. A man she described later as both a good man and charming as well as irritating and annoying to die why she says she was only protecting herself and her child. She had no idea he was. GonNa fall out that window. She said it never occurred to her that she could even do do that if she wanted to. As I said we don't think about high rise windows being breakable but then again he had broken a window window within the last twenty four hours but police believe the evidence told a very different story and they charged him. They hung their hat on that interrogation tape. When I say interrogation tape she was not being interrogated. You have to remember that. She was put into a room that the detective said was just a quiet place. It was handy. It just so happened to be an interrogation. She was not being interrogated and when she he was seated they said she was not seated as a suspect she was just seated as a witness and they were putting her somewhere comfortable somewhere comfortable with a camera microphone if that hadn't happened if she had not been seated in a room that was wired with cameras in a microphone would would amber story have a different ending had they not overheard her emotional self recrimination. 's her emotional emotional unloading onto her grandmother. Would this story have a different ending. If ambers grandmother glory arrived at the Condo I would amber have been brought to the police station in hysterics. would she have been brought to the police station at all or would they have set someone there to take her statement. Maybe if the first time she spoke to police amber was in a calmer state of mind and instead of fresh off the immediate shock of seeing her husband fall out of the twenty fifth floor window and drop rob seventeen floors at a speed of seventy five miles an hour and hit the concrete roof of an eight floor parking king garage would she may be not been in immediate shock and would things have been different. Maybe she would have shown up with a physician an attorney. A therapist her parents a support system would that have led her down a completely a different road than where she ended up now after amber claimed to her grandmother in a clearly hysterical emotional utterance that she killed Josh witnesses began to come forward amber and Joshua's next door neighbor Nathan McGowan said on the day Josh died. He heard a loud loud argument happening between the couple. He claimed he also heard a woman screaming. No no no then someone rushing across the room followed followed by a crash something that sounded like a broken coffee table then he said it got eerily quiet before he heard the woman screaming again. Oh my God Oh my God oh my God now police took Nathan statement as proof that amber wanted to push your husband at that window in a fit of rage and she took a running start. They said those were the footsteps that Mr McGowan heard was her taking a running start and surprising him I'm from behind thus. The foot stomps followed by the breaking of glass. They say it makes perfect sense. She runs up behind him. Pushes him from behind. He hits the window face. I which explains the fact that he falls out based forward but can this be looked at another way amber would give her version of what took place I exterior three out to grab the arm around my shoulder and I often balanced del backwards into the picture windows at ended up giving and he known AH assumes that you're standing next to the huge widow having a physical altercation and interpret the scene like I said that such that were visible window is not reality of the blind for close we were maybe three feet away and having this pushing the shopping bag and he had lost his balance entered backward yeah and I reached out and next thing I know I'm gaining a couple of feet away from Bergen though we were far away Ross. I wonder where I actually had to take a couple of quick steps. Choose a window and I grabbed the ED and Dover in the concrete. Amherst version is correct can Nathan McGowan statement also fit that version of the phone could acquit footsteps before the crash of glass described later as a running start to shove him actually be the sound of Joshua's feet losing his balance while stumbling towards the window and remember that the neighbor said after the crash of glass it got eerily quiet for a time and then he heard a woman screaming. Oh my God Oh my God oh my God does this not completely match ambers Burr's account of events he'd lost his balance stumbles towards the poll blinds and then out the picture when she was incomplete shock for a moment. Leaving the room eerily quiet and then took two steps to the broken glass screaming at what had just occurred doesn't ambers version matchup matchup equally as well if not better than some version of an enraged woman wanting to kill her husband and while we're on this subject let's address the size the difference between the two a five foot five seven month pregnant woman up against and trying to move a six foot four military retrained football stud across the room and out a window now. I'm about to size Josh and if someone amber cise and in pregnant that state was going to try to move me out that window I've got to tell you. That's going to be an all day job. Protecting Jeff Felton agreed. He said that if Josh Josh did not want to go out that window there is no way Amer would have gotten him through it. However there is the opinion that if you catch someone off guard if you you surprise someone and push a big body and they start to stumble that big body can actually work against you. It's simple math breath. You've got a big mass stumbling. You're tall your gangly. You're heavy it can take a while to regain your footing footing in your balance but couldn't you just as easily say that amber in protecting her unborn child push josh off of her and in an unexpected freak occurrence that big body did work against him tripping toward the window. Isn't that possible too L.. Let's address the broken glass. Ask to put it. Plainly the glass in the window may have been up to current city code but it did not belong in a high rise in fact calling it. A picture is your window is fitting because the glass was picture frame thin a window analysts prove that the apartment complex used non safety glass slice and the windows were generally not up to standard when Josh fell through the window amber said it was like the glass was not even there and it sounded like nothing more than a small glass bowl breaking a prominent window and glass expert would later say the glass in that tower was totally unsafe unsafe and should have been replaced years ago adding he would never use that type of glass on any of his projects because of its risk did amber number no the glass in the window behind the blinds was so dangerously fan and did she use that knowledge in a wild rage to try and kill Josh while the people charging her certainly thought so amber and Josh as I mentioned earlier previously had an argument in the bedroom where the glass windows inside side lead out to an open balcony during this disagreement someone through a laundry basket and broke the glass separating the bedroom from from the terrace the authorities believed amber may have used this knowledge of the easily breakable glass in her plan to get rid of her husband or at the very least he's believed amber should have calculated the imminent danger so close to Josh when pushing you ambers response would be how does someone you think of that when your first instinct is protect yourself and your unborn son photos of marks on amber shoulders and lower neck. Syria would be taken to help prove her side of the story amber claim Josh was facing her reaching out to grab her and shake her and she pushed him off south leading him to tripping backwards and stumbling through the window. It's Madison Reed. Take coloring your hair at home to the next level with Madison Reed. You deserve gorgeous. Professional hair-color delivered to your door for less than twenty five dollars. Now Women Love the results gorgeous shiny multidimensional healthy looking hair Madison Reed delivers gray covering game changing color. You can do at home and look if you just came from the Salon. This is crafted by master colorist who blend nuances of light dark cool warm to create create over forty five multi total shades. This is a really quality deal. It's convenient. It's affordable. It's cruelty free so there's no animal testing here. 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Robin says it puts a little Texas UHF wherever the skin needs to be lifted and tightened finish it off with the moisturizer hydrated skin equal youth because as we all know hydration his key these three products worked together to give your skin a fresh start every day you can get daytime lift at everything else you need for inspiring skin skin right at Robin McGraw Revelation Dot Com. That's Robin McGraw Revelation Dot Com but the Tulsa police don't buy amber story detectives had two eye-witnesses both of whom described Josh as falling out of that window face ace. I the detective said this proved amber surprised him from behind while he was quote. Messing close quotes what's with the television. A television located a few feet from the glass. Still that's hard to imagine amber could move two hundred and twenty pounds sounds that far and get him to fall that out of control. This was an athlete but for argument's sake. Let's say hey josh was right next to the window. In fact inches from it say was staring out at the beautiful Arkansas River in that amber took a running start to shove him through that might it'd be possible but what about her bruises to Josh. Let go an intern to admire the gorgeous day also remember. The neighbor heard lots of yelling yelling just before the incident was josh arguing with his back to his wife. Is there another explanation. Perhaps ambers version is the perfect explanation and could also align totally with both eyewitness accounts in the fall amber said. Josh lost his balance and fell backwards towards awards glass so if he did fall out in this manner how does that match with the eye witnesses while the two men outside saw Josh following from the window window it would be nearly impossible for them to see the entire thing. I mean a person would have to be staring directly at that window. Due at the precise time Josh came through in order for them to know for certain how he came out the threshold more than likely the witnesses heard the crash of the glass and saw Josh shortly after already in the air facing down toward the ground as I mentioned mentioned in episode one the fall would take between three and four seconds and the body would be traveling at a speed of approximately seventy five miles an hour our now why is this important because a simple pivot while exiting the window could explain his change of direction for a moment imagine josh falling out backwards going through the glass in an instant of panic. He reaches out for anything he can get his hands on and one hand for a split second grabs the side of the window he's in mid air this would cause his body to pivot to turn and now face forward while continuing to fall a person listen outside would have to be focused directly on this window before it broke in order to be able to see this because it would happen so quickly again. I'm just saying ambers. Version is plausible. The media would play an early role in this story for sure the quick arrest of this widow along with the source information from police investigators about the case and ambers guilt would lead to a one-sided Media Frenzy Investigators Agadir say twenty three year old Joshua jobling fell from the twenty fifth floor of the university tower investigators say the deadly plunge was the result of an argument between Heberling and his pregnant wife breath amber the confirmation bias we talked about earlier had built up and it was spreading it was zeitgeist and it would be hard to change whatever's. The average family declared was the quote rich bitch kills military hero narrative facebook pages started popping up in in particular the put amber shielding away for life page would gather great attention and be a place for everyone anti amber vinter content. That was any of this fared amber well. That really wasn't a concern for the police and prosecutor. They had a job to do. They had someone they believe was guilty and they were going to continue to build their case. The authorities knew about the history of domestic violence with amber towards Josh and that history did exist and the restraining order from their time in Alaska proved it but was that the whole story amber would say no and would describe nights on the base in Alaska where Josh would go from out of control to what she described as crazy names but I mean he was broke games breaking the neighbor would call the police security forces which and take pictures of whatever was broken whether it be my phone what happened most of the time there was the one incident that got progress it was when he tried to actually try breast and plan land and all the blood vessels and my cat and the ambulance showed up and examined Megyn. I reduce go the hawks bill and if they arrested him the three day the complaint amber filed was on January second of twenty seven in the report read quote he he stated the two of them were making dinner and got into an argument and we're yelling at each other. He then stated he picked ambers dinner plate up and threw it into the air and began to scream in her face in quote he also stated quote. He grabbed her by her right breast and push her against the wall. This caused her to flee to the neighbor's house. Medical stated she had some bruising and some broken blood vessels in her right breast from the incident amber stepfather. Brian would describe the regular emotional calls from Alaska and this night in particular she would call crying we'd here police were called because a plate was thrown. I wasn't happy with the dinner <hes> a slap on her leg. She had bruises on her breasts. New trying to break one of her implants. ambers mother believed from the beginning that the Tulsa police and media knew they had a high high-profile family in the city and decided right away. Amer was guilty. This would be great publicity and huge ratings. I believe that they. Set this up. They knew who you were in the community it had already been the news was already all over the seen it already decided who the parents were were who she realize the apartment complex iconic building we do commercials we go into restaurants. People know who we are. The B._U.. Would state that the day of the fall. Josh was packed in trying to leave amber. He was trying to get away from this abusive life. Josh's Dad Patrick said his son had called him shortly before he died and and told him he was planning to leave amber for good. He said his son was at the end of his rope because he couldn't stop amber from using drugs while she was pregnant with their son and he just couldn't watch her anymore. Josh's Dad said he planned to ask for a divorce as well as custody of their unborn baby. If Josh asking for a divorce was that the motive amber would agree that Josh's bags were packed but she insisted her husband wasn't leaving her in fact he was the one that would never let her leave never let her go. His bags. Were just packed because he planned to spend time with his friends because she was kicking him out. In fact the argument that day was about Josh not wanting to go to ambush father's wedding but instead go to to a concert with his buddies to further prove her point that Josh did not want to leave but actually was trying to get back in the good graces of amber was a number of text messages set just the day before amber rights. I don't believe anything you say anymore so please don't waste your time. Josh replies ten minutes is all I asked. Were I'll be home amber. This is not your home. You're just staying here. Josh replies. I want to have a home with you. I'm sorry I've been such an ASS. I'm done complaining and always trying to spend time with my friends when I should spend eh you. Amherst retort is don't text me that stuff. Josh replies why I WANNA be with you and only you. I love always when you're with me. I won't lose that amber suspicious she says are you drunk or something. Josh replies Nope Nope. That's how I feel. I have thought a lot of the way I've been in how you don't deserve that and I know I can be so much better of a man you amherst point was do these sound like the text messages of a man being abused by his wife and wanting to get out well. An abusive wife in a desire to leave is exactly what the prosecution was going to build its case on in addition to the important interrogation room tapes now. We've already talked about three witnesses in this case one being the next door neighbor and the other two being the eye witnesses outside seeing Josh fall face forward three to his death but there was another witness the person who would be the last to see Josh alive other than amber as you may recall earlier I said Josh and amber had an argument in the bedroom that had ended with a laundry basket being thrown in a window being broken and if you're wondering who it was that through that laundry basket and broke that window it was Josh apparently in anger shortly before four Joshua's fall amber had called the building manager to see of the window could be fixed. He actually happened to have to repairmen working in the building that day Armando Solace and his employees Antonio Depaz. We're fixing another window at the time he got the call is to resolve said they would head head up to twenty five o nine right away when they arrive. Josh would walk them back to the bedroom. Where amber was sitting on the bed quietly? He saw the broken window Ndo as well as a broken table and along with how they both seemed upset thought that the two were in the middle of an argument Mr IOS olice would send Mr Depaz back down to the truck together some materials to board up the window while in the parking lot Mr deposit would become come one of the two eye-witnesses to look up and see Josh falling face down to his death after his employees left after Mr Lewis learned that Josh had broken window Josh ask if he could fix it himself and after Mr Hollis said no plus that it would cost. I am at least one hundred and fifty dollars. Josh became upset in fact Mr Solace would make a written statement that day saying Josh was quote <music> very angry. Josh and amber both went out to the living room and Mr Hollis went outside on the balcony to begin cutting the the glass moments later he would hear a crash his first thought was that they must be arguing and someone threw a chair at the window he feared Josh might be beating amber up. He was going to have to go back in to confront this large man then he received a call from Mr Depaz who was down on into parking lot saying someone just fell from a window. Mr Hollis looked out over the edge to see Josh down below. Mr Resolves was outside. He didn't have the ability to hear as much as the neighbor. Nathan McGowan did inside the building leading up to the fall after you're seeing Josh on top of the parking structure his next thought was josh had beaten amber up and committed suicide while Mr Rose Solace reentered the building. It was very quiet. He thought amber might be knocked unconscious somewhere he entered the living room to see amber coming from the direction of the front door screaming. Mr Ozal would be the person to take amber down the elevator where she would eventually find her husband Josh from these moments forward everything amber said in her emotional state would later be described by witnesses all leading up to that interrogation room where police police interpreted and characterized her words as self-incriminating and would use those statements to justify her arrest. The prosecutors knew how vital the jury seeing amber statements to grandmother in that room would be if the judge did not allow that in what else would this case stand on. What evidence would it the only be everything? I just presented an alternate explanation for we need to take a moment here to recognize an acknowledge that in America America depriving someone of their freedom is a very high standard as well. It should be what I'm talking about is if you're going to enforce forsell law that empowers you to take someone off the street out of their home out of their life and locked them in a cage for one day one year or the rest of their life. The Standard of proof is very very high. You have to have the jury of your peers go into a room and agree beyond a reasonable doubt that you are guilty of a crime to which that penalty is attached that means they have to prove their case to the point that there is no other reasonable explanation. There's no other reasonable suspect. There's no other alternative explanation for what could have taken place. It is a very high standard. If there's an alternative theory if there's as an alternative possibility of there's an alternative suspect that could have explained or committed the crime you cannot and it should not be able to lock up the person that is charged. You have to prove it to a very high standard. The question here is was is that standard meant there were no witnesses to what took place there was no Miranda sized statements achievements interrogation her testimony here there are statements from people that heard things or saw things after the actions Russians took place but there are alternative explanations for what was reported Assistant District Attorney Michelle Kelly new just like any good attorney would that juries can change their minds you can put on the best case with all the evidence in the world and still lose. She knew there was a chance chance that twelve people might have a hard time seeing the young mother is a killer if a jury saw a lovely young lady who never had any previous convictions sitting sitting in that courtroom who knows what the outcome might be. She knew that you have a hard time predicting what a jury might do so. She offered Amera deal the deal offered by the prosecution. Was This admit your guilt and accept a five year prison sentence. Let's now that's a five year since doesn't necessarily mean she's GonNa spend five years in prison. It's five year sentence and as you know you can sometimes get credit for good time good behavior there sometimes mitigating circumstances where you don't have to serve three hundred sixty five days of each year but the most she would have spent five years in prison however amber was not interested in deeply and certainly not interested in spending five years away away from her son leaving amber stated she had not killed her husband and she was not going to admit to something she did not do so this case the case of the state of Oklahoma versus amber hurling was headed to trial the jury was going to decide what took place on the twenty fifth floor of the the university tower they were about to listen to the evidence and determine the fate of Lebai hillbillies mother in the death of his father Josh so but what evidence will this jury be allowed to hear what all of the statements amber made while being secretly recorded by the police with her grandmother even be allowed sowed into the court record. Just these recordings alone were enough for the police to feel like they could charge him without got it. What would be left? Will this trial be held locally either in or around Tulsa or might have change of venue take place so this was maybe the biggest news story to go national reported from this city since the Tulsa riots of nineteen twenty one. Could you really find twelve people in this town who had not heard or seen the mini breaking news reports about this case have not been indoctrinated in such a way that they had had gone way past being objective and if they denied having seen or learn anything about it. Could you actually believe that they had not it. Already formed some type of opinion or on the other hand might also be as good a place as any with this mega story all over the national news media media. Could someone just claim that all of America was already forming an opinion you might as well stay in Tulsa and with all the domestic violence that each of the young newlyweds bid accused of and understand its domestic violence two ways each against the other would that be allowed in front of the jury aw the decisions made by the judge in this case would prove to be very important and I think some of those decisions may shock and surprise you plus. What is Amor going to do will she take the stand and if so what will she say if forced to how how will she explain away all the things she said in an interrogation and then of course will this go to verdict and if so what will the the jury decide I promise you this case will have an outcome that hardly a soul song coming? One of the most anticipated stupid trials in the history of this midwest city was about to begin. We're going to talk about that trial. On the next episode of a beautiful beautiful victim or killer wife mystery and murder analysis by Dr Phil Oh not conic luxury items at unreal values with the real real the leading reseller of authenticated vindicated luxury from top designers at up to ninety percent off retail new customers receive an automatic twenty five dollars off at checkout shop in in store online or download the APP and get twenty percent off select items with the Promo code real

Josh Josh amber Joshua jobling Amber Ember Hilbert Dr Phil amber hilling Amer Tulsa murder Nathan McGowan attorney Josh rush Madison Reed Oklahoma amber cise Ndo Levi Robin Tony
5 - Beautiful Victim or Killer Wife? Mystery and Murder: Analysis by Dr. Phil

Analysis of Murder by Dr. Phil

41:17 min | 1 year ago

5 - Beautiful Victim or Killer Wife? Mystery and Murder: Analysis by Dr. Phil

"It it was a tragedy of epic proportions. Josh huber ling was a young veteran and soon to be a new father other with his whole life ahead of him when he died after plummeting out of the window of the twenty fifth floor condo he shared with his pregnant wife amber but this this wasn't just a tragic accident. The shocking twist was that these seemingly picture-perfect newlyweds had lots of dark secrets and even though the couple looked flawless on the outside they both had hidden demons and an incredibly tumultuous relationship that came to a head that fateful official day in two thousand thirteen after a heated argument it was josh's new bride amber who gave him that fatal push causing him tumble through their living room window to his untimely death amber insisted. She never meant to kill josh. She loved him. She said she shoved her husband in self defense but unfortunately for amber jury didn't agree an amber was sentenced to twenty five years in prison as the prison engage locked behind amber. It seemed to signify the end of this tragic tale ambers newborn son levi would now grow up with a dead father and a mother he could it only see behind bars but what no one knew in that moment was amber story was far from over as they visited their daughter in prison for a crime. I believe she did not commit never in their wildest nightmares did ambers family think things could actually get worse but worse they got act. Amber story was about to take one more terrifying and deadly term three and a half years after her high profile murder takes three and a half years that would have seen her home with her child. Had she taken a plea agreement amber who was just twenty five years old was found found dead in her prison cell. Another inmate discovered two beautiful brunette hanging from her bump in the court of a curling iron wrap tightly around her her name officials and medics desperately tried to save her but it was too late just fifteen minutes later amber was declared did get all your favorite music and all your favorite podcast now on the road with you from spotify your your daily drive is a brand new personalized play list of music a news to make your next commute better take spotify for a ride in your car. Today learn more at spotify dot com slash drive looking for ad free episodes of my podcast. You can listen to every new episode vote ad free only on stitcher premium for a free trial of stitcher premium go to stitcher premium dot com and use promo promo code fill stitcher premium dot com and use promo code p. h. I l. it was horrifyingly. The ironic amber was a young woman who had been known for her beauty and her long flowing light brown hair her family believed amber should have been free living normal normal life a life like any other twenty five year old woman amber should have been curling beautiful long hair to pose for a picture with her son on his first day of nursery school or were to go on a date with her handsome husband but instead according to prison officials she was using the beauty tool to take her own life as her husband lay in a grave and she sat rotting behind bars for a crime. She claimed she did not intend to commit. An autopsy. Report ruled ambush death. A suicide died and it was time for the second part of her parent's nightmare to begin a suicide ruling did make sense it was plausible. That amber never never got over the guilt she felt after unintentionally causing her husband's death as her twenty five year sentence loomed endlessly before for her but ambush family says they do not believe not for one second that this was a suicide they believe something much more sinister occurred occurred. They believe that wild josh's death was in fact an accident that this was a murder you're listening to beautiful victim or killer wife mystery and murder analysis by dr phil the day that changed ambush families. Lee's life forever started with a chilling phone. Call before amherst family took this call. They had hope they had fight. They had faith that one day their daughter amber would be set free and vindicated then in one moment along with amber. All hope was dead so it was a phone call that josh's parents knew all too well. The devastating phone call they themselves had received just a little over five years before it is a phone call. No parent ever wants to hear rhonda would be told on the foam simply bluntly code. She is dead but that was all they were told. Not one detail more before they say the prison hung up the phone and ended the call and the bizarre and suspicious way in which they were notified of amherst death immediately set off alarm bells amherst parents claimed they both had their cell phones listed <music> as emergency numbers for the department of corrections to call if anything happened but instead the prison called their work numbers and and simply left a message saying call back immediately rondo was confused and frankly frightened as she dialed prison back she had already been through the nightmare of guilty verdict a failed appeal and the adjustment to a day to day life with her daughter behind bars. She had a sick feeling this would be. The start of her next nightmare in the news was not delivered to her in a way that made any sense so i call and i get hung up on. They wouldn't talk to me. Why call asking over the operator was said that just got a phone call needed needed. We needed to call back and he said i have no idea who made that phone call. You're just going to have to wait till they call you back and then they would transfer us and then that line would go to voice line line and so i just kept trying and then finally someone answered the phone and i still don't know who wasn't editor three words. She is dead. Click ronda just dropped to the floor. She screamed at the top of her lungs. Amerson levi came over to his grandma and was terribly worried and confused. He didn't know what was wrong ron to send a text to her husband brian in his office amber is dead. Come home ambush mother thought this had to be a mistake or even a cruel rule joke. There was no way her daughter was dead and that's how the prison chose to inform her at this point. Rhonda was holding onto hope for dear life that there had been some bizarre mistake. Maybe amber was just hurt or in trouble as any mother would ron became desperate believing in her heart and soul that if she could just get to her child she could somehow save her. She had no idea that it was way too late. Amber was in fact did and it would would be an excruciating amount of time before she would ever get any answers for eight hours. Rhonda and brian tried everything thing to find out what was going on to get any details at all. They called every number. They could find but they got nowhere. They kept calling the prison but still no answers. Can you even imagine as a parent how excruciating this would be. You've been told that your child is dead and you can't get answers. No one picks up the phone. Nobody knows does anything. Rhonda was beside herself. They didn't tell us how she died. It was just she's dead. She is dead and so so i called until two o'clock that morning they still still wouldn't talk. I finally got through. I asked to speak to someone in medical and the only thing i got was because we're calling it a suicide. He wouldn't give how what happened any details whatsoever. I told me to watch the news and so run to took their the advice and turned on the news and what she learned horrified her in for her to hear it not from a prison official but from these reports like everyone no one else it was so impersonal it was so detached. It was heartbreaking breaking news. We have not confirmed patel's woman convicted of pushing pushing her husband out of that window has died while in custody. We have confirmed this morning that he'll berlin killed herself at the mabel bassett correctional facility in mcleod cloud on monday. A source inside mabel bassett tells us that she was found hanging in her cell at five thirty monday evening she had served around three three years of the twenty five year sentence and leaves behind a little boy reports about amrs apparent suicide continued to be splashed across the headlines and evening news news and that's how rhonda and bryan had to piece together what happened to their beloved daughter. The news of her death had people who had followed amherst high profile case case buzzing not only were rhonda and brian dealing with the incredible shock and loss but they were seeing horrible post on social media and in news article article comments celebrating celebrating ambush death one of the most hurtful a post that read and i quote ding dong the the witch is dead. She finally hunger sales twenty five years but she chose life. However there were people well who were surprisingly sympathetic and handle the situation with grace. Joshua's parents wrote quote. We heard that amber hill ruling hung herself imprisoning evening. We know how it feels to lose a child. I wouldn't wish that on anyone. It's something no parent should have to experience condolences ince's to those who loved her in quote in the midst of the storm amherst parents they were in complete shock but they were determined to protect levi and they were also determined to find out the truth. They could not wrap their heads around the fact that amer would do this this. They believed in their hearts. She would never leave her young saad and then things started happening that only fueled their suspicions even even further people from inside the walls of the prison where amber took her last breath were reaching out to them claiming to have secrets and information ambers parents started to wonder if there was a sinister areso the prison had delayed giving them information about ambers death. Were they trying to buy time to come up with a story to cover up what had really happened now. I want to be very clear here. There is no indication or proof proved that this prison or any of its employees did anything wrong or participated in any kind of cover up. There's no concrete evidence. The ambush death was anything other than suicide but what i'm telling you is what ambers family believes and they believe it very strongly oy they claim that inmates who knew amber as well as anonymous guards begin feeding them some seriously troubling information information that ronda and brian started to really have them questioning. If something dark had happened to their daughter behind those locked prison gates we got actual actual word from a guard that worked there that said that treatment that goes on in that place that we better investigate that was from an actual guard that quit because she couldn't she could not believe this as our our our system. I don't take the prisons worked for anything that they've ever done in five years hearing that from a former guard that something could be going on here fueled ambers parents even further. They were determined to discover the truth about what happened. They reached out for me to help all pistons questioned. If amber really committed suicide they knew i knew the case and that i knew amer and more importantly they knew i had observed amber state eight of mind in the time before her death and i do agree with them and their claim that they just didn't see amber as having a suicidal seidl mindset that she had hope for her future. I saw that hope firsthand but i needed to find out more about amber state of mind in the days as before her alleged suicide because certainly something could have changed in the time passed. I know that when working with grieving family sometimes it's just too difficult difficult to accept that a loved one took their own life. It can be easier to focus on taking on a fight for justice instead of accepting that someone unintentionally kill themselves with seemingly no warning signs. It's so difficult because it's a personal failure in the minds of the loved ones once they feel like what did i do. What did i fail to do. What did i fail to see if i'd been a better mother a better father a better brother better their sister a better husband a better wife than i could have inspired them to want to stay alive. I failed him. I let them down and that's so painful to admit it's so painful to even consider that they can't wrap their mind around it. Their perceptual defense is won't admit it into consciousness and and so it's so much easier to look for another explanation so they don't have to admit or take on the burden of feeling like they somehow have failed their loved one so it's not unusual for families to reject suicide as the first explanation and look for some other reason to explain the death. I didn't have the answer at this point but one thing i did know for sure was that ambush family deserved answers answers what ever they may be ambers. Parents believed that the story they were being told just didn't make sense they say at all didn't add up for several several reasons first of all the time of day when amber supposedly wrapped a cord around her neck and tied it to her bunk bed. Officiating eating herself was a time of day when she shouldn't have been alone. It was a social time a time when many people should have been around now life behind prison. Bars is nothing if not incredibly structured when you're dealing with inmates in criminals things need to run like clockwork quirk prison officials. Don't like things to go off the clock. They don't like things to get out of pattern so it should be very predictable where inmates are and what they're doing at a given time. You should be able to set your watch by it. Amber supposedly supposedly took her life at five thirty p._m. And this was a gathering time inmates and guards were moving about everywhere it would not have been a time amber would expect to go unseen in her sale. This was a time that would be high traffic high interaction. This would not be a time when you could hang yourself and go unnoticed secondly. There are cameras positioned everywhere throughout the prison where amherst embers death took place yet. This supposedly happened to be in one of the few areas not recorded even though she was in her cell sale where there would be no cameras. Surely there should be footage of the surrounding area that could show any type of potential suspicious behavior or comings comings and goings ambush family believes no one has studied that footage no one has looked to see was she alone own or did someone or some group in her cell at the time her life was ended. Maybe maybe that's available on tape. Maybe it's not they believe it has it been looked into and lastly and most importantly as i mentioned mentioned amber state of mind at the time of her death wasn't that long ago i was sitting right in front of her in that very facility and at the end of our conversation sation amber was not for lower amber was not defeated ever was not resigned to twenty five years in prison. She was excited lighted. She had hoped she had so much to live for and her dream of getting back to levi was still a possibility. She told me straight up. She had to live for her son. She recognized his father was gone that she was his anchor. She was his family. She was his parent taking her life mint. She had to make the conscious decision to abandon that boy a. and leave him without apparent. It's hard for me to imagine her coming to that. Conclusion rhonda would also talk to amber every day on the phone she would send aber a daily picture of levi brian so they would also bring levi to the prison over twenty times a year. Now think about that. That's almost twice a month. It would bring him for holidays and special visit days. She was not disconnected from this child rhonda and ryan and were currently raising levi but they weren't shielding him from amber in any way to levi prison was mommy's house and she was so pretty that she needed guards to protect her ambers family insist. She was not suicidal. So who is suicidal. What kind got a mindset to suicidal. People have well number one. They tend to believe that they are a burden. They tend to believe they are burden to those in in their family. Those loved ones friends. They believe they're a burden and that those people would just be better off if they weren't there. There are people that tend end to start taking high risk behaviors because they don't value themselves. They're people that are depressed and this old ladies that people that talk talk about suicide don't do it is a myth. That's not true people that talk about suicide often attempt suicide. There are people that don't have any forward would thinking you never hear them talk about tomorrow or next week or next month. They just don't have future thinking because they don't plan to be here here and none of these things were present in ambers persona. She was looking forward. She was hopeful about the future. She did have something to live for. She didn't make noises about being a burden and she wasn't giving a voice to taking her own life so to say this. This came out of the blue would be a pretty accurate description. Was she happy about being in prison of course not did she like the idea that she was facing facing a potential long stretch no of course not but she had a supportive family and a loving son and those are counterbalancing factors to being imprisoned. I knew amber was sad but amber was sad the entire time she was their shoe an innocent girl in prison and did not don't know how to play this game what she used to call. Play the game mom i. I don't know how to do this and so to say that she wasn't sad of course she said accused wrongly accused of murdering her husband. She's away from our child but she she wasn't suicidal. She had never ever talked about that and you know just recently the night before talking on the phone the whole conversation she was talking about things happening in the future and leave. I was going to be on halloween if he was going to be batman she was going to be robin and look forward to seeing the pictures shares so as you can see the night before amherst desk she was on the phone with levi and she was talking about the future same reports stated the d'ambra had had recently gotten into some trouble in prison and that her punishment was no visitation for ninety days which would include halloween thanksgiving christmas but would this bad news be enough for amber to kill herself over her family says no they do not believe amber would ever take her own life without saying saying some type of goodbye or riding levi a note telling him she loved him. Ambra was writing letters to her son saying things like i can. I promise you that your mama has enough love for you that you will never go without and when you miss your daddy one day and feel alone i will do all all i can to remind you that he is always with you. It makes mommy almost burst when you're so close to me and i can't touch you soon. Baby soon wound. We are almost they're god knows this is almost over and then we can be together again. These are not the statements of someone who is checking out or feeling like they are a burden on everyone. They love an amber also wrote another ladder that her parents belief further proof. She had no intention or thought of ending her live. It could be the most important letter amber ever wrote in her life and could go a long way in proving what her family believes that she did not take her own life. Just twenty four hours before she died amber wrote a letter to a local news station. She sent it and in an eerie twist. The letter arrived just one one day after ambush death. It would not be open for four more days. The letter was addressed to k. t. u. L. tells channel eight executive producer in the letter arrived at the station. No one could believe it when they saw ambush name and the date of october twenty third twenty sixteen. They all knew that was the day before amber died. The anticipation in the room was palpable. Whatever the case wealthy people can get away with anything. Did you or did you murder your wife. Whatever they conflict. I by the school went on lockdown. One show has as you covered. This was not of god. She was martyred dr phil. The only person you ever control is you off and all new season starts september nine. Check your local listings dude. It takes my wife. Robin says it's really okay to put yourself. First robert inspires women all over the world to care for themselves inside and out. That's why robin created her skin care line robin robin mcgraw revelation so that your skin always looks great now if you're planning a big girls night out or other special event and really need to look your best you'll love robin sculpted smooth duo kit. You'll get robbins instant face shaper o._m._g. 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Did this letter hold answers to what really really happened to amber annette jail sale opening. It was like receiving a letter from a ghost. It was truly a letter from beyond the grave what was written inside was simple but incredibly telling ambush note was a response to a request station had put in to interview her behind in bars. Amer replied that she was willing to do the interview. Despite some reservations her written words that were the most spine tingling amber wrote oh she would give another interview quote because i can't let go of the hope that using my own voice in conversations about my own life life will be the one and only chance i have to change the circumstances of my own reality so just one day ah before amber allegedly took her own life. She wrote a letter about her hope for the future. That clue meant more than anything else else to ambers devastated family. Let me talk about that again. She says i can't let go with the hope that using my own voice about my own life can change my own reality that self-determination it's forward thinking and it's hopeful thinking she's taking accountability. She saying i have to do this. It's my voice my reality my future she's not saying i'm sitting here waiting for my family to spend all of their money and all their time to get me out. She's not setting herself up as a burden she saying this is up to me. I've got to get me out of here my own voice. She's not seeing herself as a burden. She's putting this on herself but why all of this certainly cast. I doubt on the ruling that amber had taken her own life. There were also things that did indicate amber was a woman in distress a woman that was was well cracking under the pressure. A former tulsa county detention officer claims she was not surprised at all when she heard amber had hanged herself in prison. Regina stripling described how amber often made dark statements like. I have to live with that i killed my husband and statements agents like i'm going to have to tell my son someday that i killed his father. She also said ambra had some friends behind bars but she also had a lot of enemies. Uh she thought ambra had given up saying quote. Her appeal didn't go through and i think she gave up and i think she did exactly what she told me she would do. She said she would die. Try this story about amherst dark statements would be picked up and reported in the news again and again and it did push certain errative about amber the narrative that she was suicidal but ambers parents say this guard didn't even interact with amber after she was found guilty any talks they had add took place before she was sent to prison for twenty five years so it was definitely being taken out of context also painting a picture of a woman in distress distress were some things found in ambers autopsy according to the medical examiner ambra had scars on her arm and wrist which indicated she had been and self harming that she had been cutting behind bars. We're not talking about just one or two scratch. Marks amber had so many scars on her arms that that she needed long sleeves for her funeral self harm in the form of cutting is not necessarily a prelude to suicide often when when people feel numb often when people feel like they just don't have a connection to their life often when people are feeling a a dull relentless pain they will cut themselves to break the cycle to feel something different and oftentimes they report that it works in the short term that it breaks the cycle of depression that it breaks the anxiety in the moment. Obviously it isn't healthy and it doesn't work work because they keep having to go back and do it again and again and again but it's not necessarily a gateway to suicide amber was also taking drugs behind bars meth was found in your bloodstream at the time of her death but despite the cuts found in the autopsy ops and the drugs in her system her parents still didn't trust what they were being told and they had good reason remember brian was a doctor rhonda was a nurse i so they knew many people in the medical field and they wanted a medical examiner who they trusted to be present two vats that everything they were being told it was true. They asked for this person to be president. They wanted an independent physician in the room. During the autopsy. The request was denied. Uh we know a medical examiner and tulsa and he had talked to the medical examiner oklahoma city requesting from us that that he be present during the autopsy second opinion to be present at that first autopsy and they denied him even though he specifically said what the statute was and then he contacted the attorney the attorney general who according to the medical examiner also denied his access. They didn't give a reason and she said on the phone she said well. I wouldn't want someone watching me. Do my job official autopsy. Report stated probable cause of death was a fixture hanging in the manner of death suicide. According to the document deceit found partly suspended by the neck with electrical cord ligature person investigation circumstantial linear abrasion of the upper neck consistent with ligature mark amber sternum was also reported reported as fractured and it was said to have happened during resuscitation efforts plus defibrillator electrodes were still attached to her body when the autopsy began ambush neck was also badly damaged in that along with the methamphetamine in her blood in the scars on her wrist. The autopsy seem to paint a picture of suicide however the examiner did make note of scratch marks on the left side of obama's neck and abrasions on the right side as as well as a red purple bruise on her right jaw. Could those marks be the clue. Ambers parents were looking for where the scratch watch marks on her neck of her own doing while desperately trying to claw her fingers under a court being choked around her neck did amber receive seve that red purple bruce from the hands of another or hurting her while she fought for her life could her fracture sternum have come from a violent silence blow of some object to her chest as opposed to the result of failed c._p._r. Rhonda i saw her daughter's body five days after after amer was found dead she says amber didn't look a thing like herself. Rhonda would describe it as the most painful thing i've ever done done in my life. Not only did amber need these long sleeves for the scars but to severe damage around her throat would require a turtleneck as she later leader lay in her coffin. Rhonda has never stopped wondering where those bruises from the hands of amber or some other unknown person a huge question remained if amber had not killed herself as her family so vehemently believes then who did who wanted dan dead and what did she have enemies behind bars. Amherst parents say her celebrity status did cause friction with other inmates. She had just recently participated in a documentary and the constant media attention did not win her many friends among her fellow convicts she started at all this flack and they started making names for because they thought she was above the rules because she got special privileges and then channels channels you know she got road everyday. When news stations wanted interviews with our number also told people she was terrified by the horrifying nightmare she she was having imprisoned seeing josh's body crumpled and broken on the ground vision. No wife should ever have to see in amber was reliving living at in flashbacks. Lack of sleep and terrifying dreams were not helping amherst mental state rhonda believed ambra had an extreme case of p._t._s._d. A._s._t. and was not receiving treatment for it. Rhonda made a shocking claim that not only was amber not being treated for her p._t._s._d. In grief but some of the guards were actually making it worse by mentally torturing her about joshua's death ron declaimed guards would say hey don't get too close to the glass. Hill burling brian also claims an anonymous person also told them that they had witnessed amber wearing a dog muzzle in the prison yard hard what was going on in this prison was amber just another inmate struggling to get by and it all became too much. Her parents claim it was more than that. They believe there. Were people out to get her. Could the other inmates disdain for her have been motive but then why the coverup one could argue that no prison wants to be the one that allows a murder to be committed on their watch but no one was coming forward with any clues about someone one who hated amber so much they would kill her with everyone. Watching these questions remained in the haunted ambush parents for years ears and then finally there was movement a cryptic message was posted on a facebook page created to remember amber. The beginning beginning of the message said posted by friend. This friend claim to know what happened to amber and they made an extreme accusation. The fran and posted amber was murdered in cold blood by another inmate and there was an elaborate plan to cover it up and make it look like suicide. She even named the inmates name. We're just going to refer to this person his inmate as she is not a suspect and is not able to respond to these claims or defend herself. The chilling post read oklahoma department of corrections and mabel bassett. Correctional center are responsible for covering up the murder ah amber hill burling and making it look like a suicide amber was murdered by an inmate hours before amer was found hanging in her cell. The inmate who is doing a life sentence told amber to go kill herself. The inmate was housed in a separate block the number and was not allowed in her pod. However guards allowed it anyways. The inmate is in prison for strangling her girlfriend. Over twenty years ago. Amer was found hanging by the court of her hair straightening. Her body wasn't removed from herself for hours. She was left there so long that the prisons prisons internal affairs department could get to the murder scene before the medical examiner there were claw marks on ambush neck where she tried to fight off her attacker and remove the cord amer was working with dr phil and had interviews coming up with a local news station k. j. r. h. The prison did not want the world to know an inmate killed another inmate and they let it happen and did nothing about it. Since ambush case was so high profile oh file they had to cover up what they let happen the warden of the prison and several guards eight mcdonald's and laughed about her murder. All while amherst body was still hanging. It doesn't matter if you believe amber deserves to be imprisoned or not her seven year old son deserves to know his mommy didn't choose use to leave him. Her life was taken from her and i will spend my life trying to prove it in post before we say anything being more. It's very important to know that to this day. No one has brought any real evidence forward to show that anyone at the mabel bassett correctional facility acted in or later participated in a cover up. This is all just coming from an unverified facebook post. There could be absolutely no truth to it at all but it was certainly enough for ambers family to take and run with it in their minds prove their theory that their daughter was murdered it proved it in their minds back can twenty sixteen to communications director for the oklahoma department of corrections terri watkins address the allegations that the prison had acted inappropriately she adamantly adamantly denied that amber was abused by the staff at mabel bassett in mcleod oklahoma and said every individual in their custody is treated with respect and care she she also denied there was any cover-up in connection with ambush death again. This is only a facebook post in an accusation made without any evidence so for now it must be viewed as just that it could be fake or completely made up and until there is evidence ambush death remains ruled suicide amber now rest in calvary cemetery in tulsa into this day her mother rod the believes someone has i've gotten away with murder. We spoke to her just a few days ago and she said her focus is not just justice amber but for helping levi who is now how struggling as he is old enough to understand the tragic romeo and juliet story of his parents when we spoke to her about their frustration over the lack of answers ambers death breath ambers mothers chilling last words to us were and i quote the blood of amber is on many hands and we will never stop telling the world the true story. So what do you think i'm glad you've taken this journey with me and i very much want to hear from you and if you know oh something about this story we will certainly want to hear from you. Thank you for listening. I'm dr phil what more the dr phil show on the go. Oh download the watch own app. That's the oprah winfrey network app where you'll find some of my latest and greatest episodes now lots lots of other great shows to discover stream there to all you have to do is download authenticate and you're all set. It's that simple the watch own app get it now.

amber Amerson levi rhonda ambers levi brian amer amber hill amherst murder dr phil official Josh huber ling Ambra robin robin mabel bassett correctional fac amherst family spotify mabel bassett oklahoma
3 - Beautiful Victim or Killer Wife? Mystery and Murder: Analysis by Dr. Phil

Analysis of Murder by Dr. Phil

52:23 min | 1 year ago

3 - Beautiful Victim or Killer Wife? Mystery and Murder: Analysis by Dr. Phil

"<music> you're back with me dr phil. We've we've been talking about the case that captivated the nation. The beautiful young wife accused of shoving her handsome young husband through the glass of their glamorous chris high rise condo building. That's right right through the window causing him to plummet seventeen stories to his death. Josh huber ling's violent iranian at the hands of his wife amber caused a national uproar and reporters flocked to cover what would become known as the newlywed ed murder. It was a story in a trial that would captivate the nation exposing secrets. The picture perfect couple hid behind behind gleaming smiles in a perfect song what led to this lovely bride being the cause of her new husband's death. It was a marriage h. Marred by jealousy and rage that would lead to josh huellingsdorf. You're listening to episode three of beautiful victim killer wife mystery and murder analysis by dr phil. My wife robert inspires me to start each day with the a conscious choice to be positive and she's even created her own. Inspiring skin care line called robin mcgraw revelation so do inspire you to start every day on a positive robbin recommends the daytime lift kit and here's what's in it foaming joey cleanser the peptide gel serum o._m._g. Is this really me and the moisturizer hydrated skin equal youth. You can get daytime lift at robin rebel revelation dot com. That's robin mcgraw revelation dot com so looking for ad free episodes of my podcast. You can listen to every new episode ad free only on stitcher premium for for a free month's trial at stitcher premium go to stitcher premium dot com and use promo code fill stitcher premium dot com and use promo code p. h. L. despite ambers insistence that she only pushed her abusive husband in self defense and never meant for him to fall out of the window to his death. The state of oklahoma arrested amber and charge the pregnant nineteen-year-old eighteen year old with second degree murder. The prosecution claimed amber wasn't acting in self-defence when she shoved her twenty three year old husband josh through the glass last window of their condo. They believe she acted in a fit of rage. After he threatened to leave her and fight for custody of their unborn child evanger was convicted the soon to be mom could spend the rest of her life behind bars and her son well he would grow up without his mother and his father so the prosecution gave her what they considered more than a fair deal. They offered amber the option to plead guilty and serve just five years when i say they thought this was a good deal it really was one that seemed to be driven by compassion because if she went away for life again this young child would lose both of his parents throughout his young years she had also have credit for time served and there would be a good chance her sentence could be reduced even further for a young woman desperately fighting for her freedom. It really seemed likely only option. You have to understand when you make a plea deal. Sometimes they are listed as one thing five years but when you actually get to prison and you look at all of the concessions that are made read it can wind up being a lot shorter now. You never know what all the specifics are but sometimes it can actually be as much as two for one or even more in. Here's why you get credit for time served so that's already been done then. You get credit for good time. If if you are a model prisoner then they subtract time saying well this person's already conforming to society so we're going to give them credit for good the time so they'll reduce your sentence based on you seeming to already have modified your behavior so what could be. What does look like five five years if you take away time served. Maybe that's already eleven months so now you're down to four years in a month and then you get double time for time served so now now you're down to twenty four months and a couple of weeks. Okay so at that point you start making arrangements for maybe aby movement to a halfway house or work permits things that start to transition you back into society it could well have been that amber was looking at less than two years with this kind of a plea deal no guarantees but could well have been looking at a couple of years. That's easy for me to say but harder for you to do if you're the one having to serve the time so so they felt like it was a good offer and a no brainer for her to take a shocking twist in a move that would later come to haunt her amber refused. The deal amber insisted she was innocent that she had pushed josh because she feared for her life in that. She never meant for her husband. For the father of her child to die amber decided to take her chances and go to trial. She decided to let a jury decide aside and it was a choice. It would lead to a fate. No one and i mean no one not her not. Her parents not josh's family. No one could have predicted when asked pointblank why she refused to take the deal she replied quote because i believe if you are not not guilty of something and you truly believe in that with all your heart then you're gonna take whatever risk is necessary to prove that sounds good and sounds courageous but statistically it was a risky move. I say that because prosecutors tend not to take cases is to trial that they don't feel like they can win. They like to go forward with cases that they feel like they have the evidence down. They feel like they have a lock because a lot of prosecutors do not look at that as a career position they liked to work as prosecutors for for a few years maybe four maybe five and then jumped to the defense side of the docket and when they make that jump they wanna be able to say i never lost a case as a prosecutor so they cherry picked their cases and they move forward with those they think they can win so so to say it was a risky move. Especially considering oklahoma has a reputation for having an incredibly high incarceration rate. It has even been nicknamed nicknamed. The world's prison capital risky indeed when amber decided to face the jury. She took on what what she considered to be. The two biggest challenges hammer was a smart young woman and these are decisions that you sit with your family and discuss and they knew they had two major hills to climb one was where the trial was to be held and the second was what evidence it's an accusations would be admissible and if all the conversation that took place in that interrogation room between amber and her grandmother were admitted. How prejudicial would that be to amber. The first problem was the venue clearly. This story had taken over tulsa. This is a place where this kind of thing doesn't happen very much in this group of people to pretty affluent people and a dead man had everyone talking hell josh had plummeted to his death from my posh high rise in the middle of town and amber had been portrayed in the media as a beautiful husband killer. This was like central casting had put this together but despite this being covered wall to wall we'll newspaper radio television and the family's belief that there was no way amber could get a fair trial in front of a tulsa jury aw there was no change of in you and the fact is there is seldom a change of venue because it requires a judge to make an admission that he or she cannot control their courtroom. It requires a judge to say that he or she cannot qualify the jury cannot instruct them and that they cannot follow that judges instructions to set aside prejudice ahead of time it is is an admission on the part of the judge that they don't control their courtroom. They don't control the venue and it's very rare that a judge is going to say okay something like that and that's what happened here. The judge said nope. We're going to stay right here right here. In tulsa then of course there was a matter of what police considered ambers confession the videotape of amber inside the police station crying to her grandmother that she killed her husband but amber our new in her heart what she was talking about at the time. She knew she was venting. She knew she was just making a motion little conversation station with her grandmother. She knew she was not admitting to killing her husband on purpose because she believed in the core of her soul that she had not killed him on purpose so how could anything she said to her grandmother be construed as a confession. She knew in her heart that she she could not have confessed to something she didn't do and believed in the final analysis that would all come out understand. She was just nineteen years old old and she had just seen the love of her life plunged to his death. Obviously she was upset but i say she was nineteen years old for two reasons and it also meant she was a little bit naive here in believing that people would see things from her point of view now again. There's a consideration as to whether or not amber should have been cautioned by the police before. She was left alone in that room that she was being recorded. Should she have been given her miranda rights where she's informed at anything she says can and will be used against her in a court of law that she might want to seek the advice of a lawyer well. That's not as clear cut as you might think that's required before you question a suspect act but if someone who has not been declared a suspect just starts talking to someone not the police about their role in a crime crime. How can the police be expected to have miranda. Is that person will they can't because they didn't know they were a suspect at the time and they certainly can't predict dick that they're going to start making relevant comments about the case to some one else. Not the police common sense tells you they can't maranda is someone they don't know as a suspect and don't know is going to make relevant comments about the case you cannot hold them to the standard of miranda izing housing people they don't know are involved in the case certainly not as a suspect and you don't miranda's witnesses. The judge saw it exactly that way and the recording was not thrown out the judge ruled the jury would see and hear every word amber said head to her grandmother in that room. This was a major setback for amber. The judge ruled. You had no expectation of privacy in that room. When can you oriented police interrogation room. You do not have an expectation of privacy. You are in a public building. You're in a police station in a public building. Hello police are investigators. You have just been involved in the death of another human being you have relevant information and if you start offering up that relevant information inside a police station in sided interrogation room you do not have an expectation of privacy. Let me just take a minute here. I'm not trying to counsel anybody on how to get away with a crime but every situation is subject to interpretation reputation. Every situation is subject to being twisted or turned and you always hear people say you don't want to talk to the authorities until you have a lawyer present. You may not take that literally. You may think well. I can tell them a little bit. I can deny it. That's okay. I can tell them my name and where i was and what i saw it. It's okay to tell them. I didn't do it right. No that is not right. You don't say anything until you have a lawyer present. If they say okay bob. Tell me what happened. What you need to say is lawyer if they say that. You didn't do this on purpose. We know that at least tell us what happened lawyer. We don't regard you as a suspect. If you ask for a lawyer it's gonna make everybody look at you differently so what you have to say lawyer. Would you like a cup of coffee lawyer. Are you tired. Would you like to lay down lawyer. You don't say anything if you just. I make the decision that you don't say anything then. You don't have any decisions to make about. What's okay to say and again again. I'm not trying to tell you how to get away with crime. I'm trying to tell you how not to get caught up in things being twisted or turned look you don't have to be hostile just be consistent and when i say don't take a drink when you take a drink your depositing d._n._a. You're you're giving it to them. You're volunteering to them and they need a warrant to get that unless you volunteer it to them and you may say well. What do i care. I didn't do anything wrong well well. You just let them do their jobs. If you sneeze with kleenex put it in your pocket. You just don't do anything to help help them. Build a case against you and everybody knows. I am a huge fan proponent and supporter of law enforcement and first responders. I'm not saying that they have a corrupt or nefarious agenda but i'm saying they have an agenda and their agenda is to clear earlier crimes and once they decide. They have a suspect in their crosshairs. They're very good at building a case and we we know there have been dozens and dozens of people on death row that with the advent of d._n._a. Have been cleared so here we are are with police that i believe do a good job that are well intended that have taken people all the way to death row that have been proven to be innocent it and with the advent of d._n._a. So many men that have been convicted of rape that have had to be let go because now with d._n._a. They found out they weren't even even there so i'm just saying there are people who make their living dealing with the system and that ain't you so if you've wind up down there. You just need to cross your hands across your chest. You don't take an offer of drink you sneeze. Put it in your pocket doc. Id don't answer any questions and ask for a lawyer and if you say well i'll have a lawyer. That's great for you dr phil but i don't walk around with a team of lawyers following when me maybe you do. I don't all you have to ask for a lawyer. They'll get you a lawyer. That lawyer will get you through the night then you can hire a lawyer the next day but they will provide ride you a lawyer that night that day. You will get a lawyer. You don't have to have a defense team on standby. They will get you a lawyer. They're required to by law. Protect yourself south at all times now back to this story. Now drugs were also a huge point of contention ambers case both amber and josh had accused accused each other of taking drugs and pointed the finger at one another josh's family had accused amber of using drugs while she was pregnant and it wasn't a good look when amber tested positive for pot after joshua's death amber was out on bond when she tested positive and she was put right back in jail after she failed a drug test but amber also pointed the finger at josh claiming he was not only abusing but also dealing drugs which only made her more terrified of him and his violent outburst would these accusations be allowed to be brought tamers trial well eventually. They decided that this wasn't relevant to whether he was pushed out that window on purpose or not so it was not admissible at trial an interesting decision was made about the abuse allegations on both sides. The judge ruled that that neither side could bring up past abuse allegations unless amber brought it up first so she was in a difficult oh position in order to prove that she acted in self defense when she pushed josh to his death she would need to tell the jury about about all of her claims about josh violently abusing her in the past like the incident detailed in his u._s. Air force i file where he allegedly threw a plate at her and attempted to pop one of her breast implants but if she brought all that up then then the prosecution could bring up things amber allegedly did to like pushing a lamp into josh's head which required staples and stitches and that would not be good for him over the more the jury heard about amber abusing josh the easier it would be for them to see her as a violent woman who may have just shoved josh that day out of anger rather than self defense so those decisions were made and as the first stay at ambush trial approached ambush rate of face a jury tell her truth and put her future in their hands. Now there's a court of law and then there's the court of public opinion and to think that those are mutually exclusive is pretty naive. I spent a lot of my professional career working with juries in both civil and criminal matters and we always have the jury's instructed not to read anything or watch anything in the news or hear anything on the radio about the case but i think it's pretty naive to believe that that he is pure that none of the jurors listened to what goes on in the media about a case and here's the reason that's important something may not be admitted at trial but it will be discussed in the media so finds its way into the jury box and can influence the deliberations nations it can even be discussed in deliberations when it was never presented in court and in this case every day the media would be crowded both outside and in the hallways always the courthouse reporting on the wife accused of killing her military husband and i have to tell you the media just tore amber apart mainly because of how she looked in court reporters bloggers viewers took notice of ambers model like looks and and her wardrobe. They seem to hold out against her. They thought she looked like she was enjoying her. Semi celebrity status instead of coming to court court dressed as a grieving widow. They labelled her as dressing like a bombshell with a blown out blonde locks full face of makeup cup wearing form fitting suits and stiletto heels. Many of them labelled her as looking more like a model ready for her close up than an innocent bride in despair over accidentally causing the death of her husband. The prosecution presented their side. They said amber was furious. Because the very day she pushed josh huber linked to his death he had packed his bags and was leaving her for good he had had enough of being abused by his wife and he had made up his mind. He also warned her that he planned to try and get custody of the unborn baby. Josh tried to take taxi but couldn't find one then he called his dad to pick him them up but his dad was at work then called a number of friends one of which finally agreed to come as soon as he could as i told you previously when josh fell to his death he amber weren't the only two people in the condo. This was a couple that thought so frequently like cats and dogs that win. The repairman was sent up to the couple's condo the day of josh's death they were once again in the middle of argument and the repairman could hear hear them arguing from the condos balcony right before josh's body shattered the living room window and went hurtling through the air and landing with horrifying thud <hes> on the building's garage roof the repairman raced inside to see amber inner through the condo front door hysterically wailing and my husband fell out the window. I pushed him. He's probably dead. Let me say that again. This was a quote from the repairman that he attributed timbre. My husband fell out the window. I pushed him. He's probably did they was overheard. The chaos as well female. L. neighbor heard a male voice saying so what do you want me to do. She then heard a female voice. Say i want you to grow up. Another male neighbor heard thump thump. Thump did a crash of glass like a fifty gallon aquarium exploding. He went on his balcony and it. I saw nothing until he looked down and saw josh's mangled body as paramedics examined. Josh amber continues to make more statements. It's like i pushed him. The tulsa police are informed of this officer holloway approaches. The prosecutor finished her opening statement by telling telling the jury. How amber told her grandmother quote. They were right. They kept saying if we stay together. I i will kill him. When it was ambushed. Turn amber did not deny that she pushed josh and that she caused him to die. The question was was uae. Did she push him. What made her do it. Amber wanted things to be very clear. She never denied that she pushed josh and that it did not end up in him dying but the thing she wanted to focus on was the question of why she pushed him what made her do it it and from the very beginning she claimed that that push was pushing back after years of abuse at the hands of her husband aspen that she was standing up for herself protecting not only her but her unborn child her plan was to call witnesses witnesses who were on the scene who would describe her is inconsolable hysterical and screaming. Can you please fix my husband and another witness who would testify that. Josh josh was angry on the day he died because let's face it an angry two hundred and twenty pound man fighting with his five foot five hundred and forty pounds seven month pregnant excellent wife is an imbalance of power. You just don't get the picture in your mind of her being able to move him across a room and push him out a a window she intended to show photos of her injuries suffered throughout the years that she claimed were caused by josh so her story was she acted purely self defense that day to protect herself and her unborn child josh's father patrick would be the first witness called by the prosecution. Take the stand. He said his son was so scared of amber that he told him to go. Get an order of protection against her even though people looked at amber and saw petite pretty pregnant girl. Josh's father said he was afraid of what she would do to his son. When she was angry and he needed protection. He also insisted that josh was is going to ask amber for divorce. Ambers position was that josh was angry a lot. He was even angry that day about having to pay to fix the the window that she said he had broken when he threw a laundry basket and she wanted the window repair man to tell that story and he said that the first thing he heard with shattering glass made him think what's happened to that poor woman he assumed it was josh had harmed amber not the other way around so what did he witness that day about their interactions that would have made him think that or did he dish assume the petite and beautiful wife was the victim other witnesses testified about seeing the body fall then detective don holloway was called the most damaging part of his testimony was that he claims he heard amber at the scene say quote. Nobody is going to believe me. I'm going to jail you deserve gorgeous. Gorgeous professional hair-color delivered to your door for less than twenty five dollars mass and read delivers gray covering game changing color you can do at home and look as zipped just came from the salon. 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The quiz is really easy a lot of fun to figure out what i needed and my goal is to smooth things out energy wise for twenty five percent off for your first personalized care about him and go to take care of dot com and enter promo code analysis check it out today by going to take keira dot com and enter promo code analysis another revelation came from surprising character a bad to the bone convicted criminal with a rap sheet that could make a hardened criminal look like a pussycat. Her bond was revoked and she was put behind bars for smoking weed aid and messing with her ankle monitor a woman named bonnie fulton. She claimed that she became ambers. Prison buddy. She claimed amber made a sick confession to her when they were behind bars together. She claims amber admitted she knew josh was going to leave her so oh she caught him off guard and shoved him in according to body ambers words war quote. I killed bastard close quotes. You could guess what amber had to say about that. She said bonnie was a full on liar. She said she never spoke to a soul in jail and certainly didn't chit chat and share stories with a hardened criminal would ask if she ever said quote i killed the bastard amer replied bastard. What am i forty. I've i've never used that word in my life. That's an old person word okay. Let's talk about this jailhouse snitch here for a minute bonnie fulton until i don't know bonnie fulton. Don't know anything about bonnie fulton but i have to say it's awfully convenient in these cases win. Somebody pops up and says oh mr ms prosecutor. I have some really good information formation for you. They confess to me that they did it. Now i've been involved in numerous criminal cases and it just never fails that somehow or another somebody pops up and says they confessed the crime to me now. I've always said when you're assessing assessing whether someone is telling you the truth or not should you believe. Should you rely on them. The first question you need to ask is what do do. They have to gain by telling you what they're telling. You now this thing about it simply if somebody says this is a really good car. Would it matter to you if they're the one selling you the car or if you had gone in hired an independent mechanic to evaluate the car. Who would you believe the most folks we'll of course it would be the independent mechanic because person selling the car has something to gain by telling you that and here's this jailhouse snitch that has something nothing to gain. Obviously you short my sentence. You give me a better placement. I get extra privileges. All they have to do is say something and they gain something. You just have to take that with a grain of salt in. It's been my experience that jurors do not way this kind kind of thing very heavily and ask yourself. Would you way this very heavily. If someone said this woman is so dumb mm-hmm that she came to me in jail and said hey come here. I killed the bastard. Is that believable. I would put that at at the bottom of the list of credible information about this case. Ask yourself where you would put it soon. It was time to play the tape conversation intersection between amber and her grandmother for an hour. The courtroom was dark and silent. All eyes were on the video of this young woman in shock doc and disbelief how the jury felt about amber at this point would go a long way to how they felt about the things she was going to say. It was important to remember that up to this point. The public had only heard about certain quotes amber said in the room statements like josh is dead this. This is going to turn into a nightmare. I killed him. These had been reported in the news but the courtroom jury would get to watch the entire conversation conversation with her grandmother. Not just hear certain edited phrases coming from amber but all of it statements that might help her statements such such as the following. How and why did he have to fall. I want you to be here as come back. Please please love you. I love you so much. Just wanna know what was going through is if he knew he was is gonna die if he's said a prayer kirsch my name or if he just thought that he could catch himself to please catch yourself break to josh mini for amber sake now the jury would get to hear all of it and truly observed the grief trauma and self blameless nineteen-year-old was experiencing but did the jury hear these things were were. They disputing those catch phrases they had already. I heard about would they just focus on those things they recognized and say aha. This confirms that she did say are those things. Would they have such familiarity that they would block out everything else. This was a critical time in this trial trial how they interpret this video would go a long way towards their verdict. After the lights in court were flipped back on detective felton was called to the stand hand and he would remember that he was actually off duty when i getting the call and ask to report to the university tower where he immediately went up to the eighth floor parking taking deck after checking the scene out for a short time he went to the detectives division to conduct interviews i speaking to mr rose alice after after that he went to interview ms hilling while her grandmother gloria remained in the room i mentioned in the prior episode that detective felton obtained a search warrant for the condo so he could go in and inspect what he considered to be a crime scene what i didn't tell you where some important details about what he found when any went in i said he found it significant what he did not see which were the signs of struggle but he did find some interesting things when he started to inspect the area while inside he would discover an emergency order of protection of joshua joshua huber lean against amber he also noticed there was no male clothing around but saw two packed bags on the floor other than a broken window. There was nothing out of place in the living room. No side of any long struggle amber of course felt like there was evidence of a struggle arguing hill by neighbors. The observations of mr roselle lists that josh was angry and the photo of her bruising could all point to a struggle bill but the detective did not agree that those things actually proved a struggle it was now ambush turned put some witnesses on the stand and she had hired an an expert mark mecham he was an expert that had been testing and installing glass and buildings for over thirty years he would say the glass in the window. Hello was not safe. The building was completed in nineteen sixty six so it was forty six years old at the time the metal framing holding the glass yes in was the original then you add this unusually thin glass and you have an accident waiting to happen not to mention the glass and the accident may have for all we know been the original glass from nineteen sixty six. Mr mechelen would promise a picture thin glass like this would never be used in one of my buildings in addition to mr mecham amherst grandmother gloria also testified. She recalled answering the phone to hear amber hysterically screaming. Josh is dead glorious sun would drop her off at the tower and after a lengthy search she found amber in a state that she had never seen her before crying sobbing saying quote. Oh my god he's dead. What have i done his face his face she requested to join amber in the car with officer holloway and then went into the private room with her on the second floor. Gloria acknowledged that everyone was polite from the officer on to detect the felton and they were never told by anyone they would not be recorded in fact ambushed grandmother agreed with the prosecution's assumption that she was worried about her granddaughters rights and did not want her to say a word to anyone else in that room at least dot anything while in her current state income in just. I don't wanna say nothing until my attorney gets okay. Don't down and don't sleep any other way. Pushing out the window grandma ma would-be asked by the prosecution about the possibility she was suggesting to amber that the couple had been struggling in the room because ambers response is to glorious statement. You were struggling was what do you mean. Gory would be quick to point out that the entire beginning of the conversation nation in the room never got recorded. If you heard this exchange plus all the tape dialogue between the two in the correct order you would have a very very different opinion on this is glorious step down. She was emotional as she passed buyer granddaughter. The courtroom was quiet. There was the anticipation of who the last witness may be amber hilling was about to take the stand and be put under oath. She was beautiful and soft spoken but her eyes downcast. Her demeanor was that of a victim of tragedy. The court washed with rapt attention as she began her testimony within within the first minute on the stand amber admitted everyone that she pushed her husband josh but the very next question was why the jurors and members of the court were frozen with anticipation amber tearfully answered because he was grabbing me he was hurting. I just wanted him to stop. She shakily described the day of her husband's fall. An argument started in the morning. Ambra claimed she was the one one who told ya she wanted a divorce. As their argument continued. Josh became enraged while in the bedroom separating laundry another argument began in josh gosh through the basket breaking the window shortly after amber called down to have someone try to repair the glass while the repairman mr rose alice was in the bedroom. The argument moved out to the living room where they met by the t._v. Amber says she remembers josh grabbing her hard by the shoulders with his huge hands and she she said she felt scared. For levi their son who was named the moment they found out she was pregnant. She pushed josh off. They made eye contact the entire time as he was falling backwards amber remembered him going through the glass and then taking a moment to try and comprehend what what had just happened. She rushed to the window just in time to see him hit. The ground amer continued to explain to the jury her state of shock and confusion confusion that day leading her all the way to that interrogation amer would state that she really didn't recall much of what she had said to her grandmother her mind and was lost and she couldn't truly comprehend what had just taken place when the prosecution had the opportunity to examine amber the first thing she was ask was his she had ever joked around about killing her husband. They were attempting to confirm what the jailhouse snitch body had testified to earlier next they ask gabar to recreate the push the us detective felton who was about to same sizes her husband. He was role playing josh now. The detective had his arms on her shoulders miskelly. Ask amber to show the push belting would later describe ambers attempted recreation push in court as gentle gentle and not what she was truly capable of the prosecution would say you have to remember amber was seven months pregnant and that she probably had even less power her condition addition. Miss kelly suggested the difficulty of amber being able to move the detective into demonstration showed amber needed a running start to move josh out that window exactly the way their neighbor nate mcgowan testified a running a feet from left to right and then a crash of glass according to the prosecution it was all winding up amber of course refuted this. She said it proved that she couldn't have moved him that the only way he could have gone through. That window was by accident if he tripped miskelly next addressed assured amer was wearing at the time. Josh was going through that window. A picture of her white tank top would be shown to the courtroom. The prosecution would describe that woman's top as a quote spouse beater either that's right. They spouse beater even though the sometimes use slang for a white shirt of this type generally worn by males is a wife beater. The judge allowed it ambush final response to the question. Did you mean for josh shilling to fall through those blinds and that glass and out the window when you pushed him was no i did not the prosecution asked differently quote. Did you intend to push him. Yes or no to which she honestly had to reply. Yes after closing arguments summarize the evidence. The case was over and now now in the hands of a dozen jurors. The media was in a frenzy. The courtroom split completely down the middle. There was ambushed family friends and supporters that vehemently believed in her innocence while josh's family was convinced their son had been murdered by his been dictate bride after only three hours of deliberation. The jury came back. This is really significant because you have to understand that there's an awful lot of paperwork to do in in a case this complex i you retire to the deliberation room and you have to elect a four-person. This takes some time there may be two or three three people that volunteer for the job or whatever they might each have a few things to say kind of campaigning for the job and then once you you have that person then the bela will give instructions about what the logistics are of how to communicate with the court or with them where the bathrooms rooms are cetera et cetera. There is some housekeeping it takes place in this can take anywhere from fifteen minutes to a half an hour and then there are jury instructions and these have to be read carefully by everyone and this is before you get to any questions and this can be several pages single spaced based type written that can take anywhere from thirty minutes to forty five minutes to read and understand people read at different rates and everybody nobody has to comprehend and know what the procedure is to be before you ever get to the first question and then it doesn't just say do you find the defendant senate guilty or innocent. That's not the question what it will do. It will give you a definition of second degree murder and it might say do you you find the following elements were proven in this case and it might have five or six elements. It might be something like was there. Malice was their intention whatever it might be and so you now have to talk about each of these elements and if all of those elements are met then you check check yes and in this case if you don't find second degree murder then there was an option for manslaughter so you have to let people know you have one or two options here and what the definition of each is so what i'm saying is. There's an awful lot of minutia minutia to cover. There's an awful lot of paperwork and housekeeping to cover and they were only gone for three hours. I'm guessing that there was at least half of that that time spent in reading housekeeping filling out forms meaning that the deliberation here was probably sixty to ninety ninety minutes and that includes a sentencing recommendation so chances are this case was over when they went in in there they may have had their minds made up purdy early on because there doesn't seem to have been time for much heated debate either way day after just three hours the jury came back and they came back to jam packed courtroom and every person on the edge of their seats waiting to hear the fate of amber hill ruling the verdict guilty of murder in the second degree the jury's jury's recommendation for amber hilling sentence twenty five years behind bars amber appeared shocked and then wrote down in a flood of tears ambush family members were beside themselves ambers mother rhonda held ambers baby in her arms a short distance from amber now not only only had the baby lost his father before he was even born but now he had lost his mother to the lead prosecutor was satisfied with a twenty five year sentence saying that because josh had been pushed from the twenty fifth floor amber had gotten one year for every floor. Fail makes a nice story of course but he the only fell seventeen floors. Josh's mother gene told a news reporter that she knew this would be the outcome. The evidence was overwhelming quelling. The verdict is not bring our josh back to us however it we can prevent someone else another man from being abused or killed then joshua was not killed dindane make no mistake. This was a terrible loss for the hilbert family anytime apparent berries their child. It's the natural all saying in a terrible terrible loss. I can only imagine how difficult was for the hill ruling family and that this verdict probably brought brought them at least a small measure a small feeling of justice for ambush family. It was just the opposite it was like throwing assault in an open wound feeling. Their daughter was being victimized yet another time. When would this pain in. When would this runaway train ever stop. So where would destroy go from here. Are there possible grounds for appeal. Ambers parents really really wanted to speak with me. I agreed to meet with them and give them my opinion. After looking over the facts of this case and talking with rhonda and brian i offered offered to fly to oklahoma and speak with her daughter in prison. I was willing to do that for them. But more importantly i was willing to do it for amber and josh's son levi. There recorded an extremely candid interview with amber. You will hear amber in her own voice taking you through the nightmare of losing using josh and now losing her freedom the freedom that would allow her to be a mother and raise her young son levi i spoke to her from two different points of view one from the psychological point of view of where her head was now and what what she could say to herself about what life hell for her going forward but also from the standpoint of working as a trial scientist for or a lot of my professional career i wanted to examine her story her explanation to see if it held water and to see if it had in fact fact been distorted. I wanted to know myself whether or not i believe she belonged in prison or this was a miscarriage the justice to do that. I had asked him admittedly very hard. In penetrating questions you won't believe our exchange in the things that are said and there is one more twist to this story that no one saw coming certainly not me there are shocking revelations to come him on the next episode of beautiful victim or killer wife mystery and murder analysis by dr phil <music> own iconic luxury autumn's at unreal values with the real real the leading reseller authenticated luxury from top designers at up to ninety percent off retail new to customers receive an automatic twenty five dollars off at checkout shop in store online or download the app and get twenty percent off select items with the promo code real the real real dot com promo code real.

Josh amber Josh josh amber hilling prosecutor dr phil oklahoma josh huellingsdorf Josh huber ling amber hill joshua joshua huber josh shilling josh huber don holloway second degree murder murder josh mini levi i amer robert tulsa