20 Episode results for "Dr Mitchell"
The Making of SMYL
"Hey man i am so excited. Welcome to the making of smile s. m. l. join dr mitchell mcteer's journey as we document his startup week by week in real time. Hey everybody my name. Is mitchell. Mcteer a number. Dennis here in houston texas and i am. Starting my very own. Dental practice has been a dream of mine. Ever since i got into dentistry. And i'm excited to share this journey with you. All the other stresses that go into as well as all of the joyful moments that you have along the way. I got into dentistry. Because i had an accident in high school where i fell wake boarding in knocked out my front teeth and chipped the bottom ones and i felt really bad about my smile and then i had make overdone and it kinda changed my outlook on life and so that is why i got industry and then from there. I've always wanted to start a business of wars from the start of practice of my own kind of have full autonomy treat patients exactly like i want to end mc side to share this story with you smile dentistry. Dance for smile more in your life. That is our vision and our goal with the practices. It's been a tough year with kobe. We just wanna bring joy back into. Dentistry enjoy beckons people's lives by helping them. And so that is the heartbeat of our practice. and that is our vision. What we want to create out of dentistry because dentistry has the ability to change so many lives. Mitchell is scheduled to open in about three months. Yeah i just want to be transparent with the process and kinda tell you from beginning to end. What's going on week by week and so hope it helps anyone out there. That is planning on doing their own. Start up or wants to create a business of their own and then one of my biggest joys in life so far to start this practice bas also been very stressful at times. And i love to bring you in on the journey and keep you updated so here. All the ins and outs and what it takes to make his practice. This is the making of smiles dentistry.
The Ethics of the COVID Vaccine
"We're the covid. Nineteen vaccines rush so quickly to market. That they can't be trusted. Were aborted fetal. Cells used in the manufacturing and research. How should christians think about one of the important questions of our day for the colson center. I'm john stonestreet. This is breakpoint recently. Wisconsin pharmacists was arrested for attempting to destroy hundreds of vials of the globe. nineteen vaccine. He feared that the vaccine could change the dna of anyone who received it or fears and rumors and worries about the safety and ethics of the various covid nineteen. Vaccines are certainly understandable. After all no vaccine has ever moved into distribution this quickly and much has been made about the new approach to vaccination taken by the moderna and vaccines and of course elected officials. Who are encouraging us to take. The vaccine aren't always trusted in our culture just before christmas. I asked my friend former teacher and a trusted bioethicist. Dr ben mitchell to walk through the ethics of the covid nineteen vaccines on the breakpoint. Podcast i've known dr mitchell for years. I've known him to be careful and measured while also theologically faithful. I know him to seek out the best sources for his information while also being very wary of what is the achilles heel of so much of modern medical technology unexpected consequences. Our conversation went for over an hour. But that's what. I was hoping for a strong slow. Careful measured informed and thorough. Look at all of the various ethical questions that have arisen because of the covid nineteen vaccines for example. The unprecedented speed at which these vaccines were developed reducing process that often takes years. Even decades to mere. Months is an extraordinary accomplishment. Still it's perfectly reasonable to wonder if ethical and safety corners were cut in order to bring the vaccine to market this fast. That's one of the things we talk about at the top of the list for most christians me included is whether or not cells from aborted fetuses were used in the development of the vaccines citing extensive research on that issue by the pro-life charlotte losure institute. Dr mitchell agrees that the vaccines produced by visor and moderna are ethically controversial which is also a position affirmed by the us catholic bishops in our interview. Dr mitchell not only walks through all of the dana but offers a mini course in how to unravel these sorts of ethical complexities. We also spend extended time discussing the new m our approach used by some of the vaccines until now vaccines have worked by introducing a weakened or inactivated version of the virus to trigger an immune response which then creates an immunity to the illness and our bodies these covert vaccines use. Messager are in a to teach ourselves how to make proteins that in turn trigger an immune response and subsequently create immunity. This approach while brand new vaccines used for years and other treatments including cancer treatment. The novelty of using this approach and vaccines has caused confusion and concern. And dr mitchell walks through this. In clear and understandable terms concerns also been raised about the possible effect of vaccines could have on pregnant women. According to the cdc only limited data are available on the safety of covid. Nineteen vaccines administered during pregnancy. According to dr mitchell this is also because of the unprecedented speed at which the vaccine was developed and approved not because of any known problems such as long term infertility and that is one of the outstanding questions about the covid nineteen vaccines whereas the safety protocols for short term results and midterm results are pretty clear. The long term result obviously cannot be because of the speed now final topic we discussed whether or not it covid vaccine would ever be mandated on citizens either directly by the state or indirectly by schools colleges. Inc's this introduces yet another ethical issue that surrounds the vaccine one made more acute by the medical communities overall embrace of vaccines as a preventative strategy. So in the end concerns over the kobe. Vaccines are understandable. even the most well-intentioned end cannot justify immoral or unethical. Means ethical consideration is necessary. In fact it's not only necessary. It has to be informed by truth. Rather than overtaken by fears or conspiracies. In the end you might not agree with dr mitchell's conclusion that christians unless a doctor indicates otherwise should get the vaccine especially out of concern love for their neighbor. Even so i think anyone who takes the time to listen to this. Podcast will find that all the ground that we covered is very helpful in understanding the issues. Please come to breakpoint dot org to hear my entire conversation with bioethicist. Dr ben mitchell for breakpoint on john stonestreet.
Are the Covid Vaccines Ethical? - Dr. C. Ben Mitchell on Breakpoint Podcast
"Welcome to the breakpoint podcast. I'm john stonestreet. Today on the podcast. We're going to have a conversation that a lot of us probably had around christmas dinner tables and holiday get togethers Even though they were limited this year Which is related to the topic and the topic has to do. With the the ethical considerations as christians about the co vaccine we have gotten so many questions ranging from the derivation of these vaccines that the administration to these vaccines and everything in between and just really privileged. Here to have my good friend. Dr ben mitchell Dr mitchell's no stranger to the breakpoint podcast into other break. Point training resources Ben i think the last time we had you on was talking about kind of theology of death and dying is part of our short course which was at the early days of the the the pandemic so i think that was the last time you've contributed to us but i i saw an article that you had published with andrew walker and i believe another co author on the ethical nature of vaccines. And we've gotten so many questions that i really wanted to to jump into them So great to have you back. I'll give. I'll give the formal introduction but just wanted to say welcome. I thank you. Thank you and just for everyone. Dr mitchell For years was the graves the graves professor of moral philosophy at union university. He also spent a lot of his career at trinity international university teaching on areas of theology and culture. was my professor and the advisor to my master's thesis at trinity so It's always a little bit intimidating One of my other than ever told you this. But i i i. I've preached at least divinity school and they're beautiful chapel there when graham cole who my visas and i was kind of really worried that you know when you preach in front of your that. If he doesn't like it he can pull it back. You know. I don't know if that's actually a big that can happen. Well actually actually. I just got off zoom. Call with graham cole. Who recalled that he was one of your ears and that really nice things to say about you and your work so well that makes me feel snow. Work and graham would say from australia no-worries-mate though or is may that's right. He's a remarkable guy. I'm so grateful for the influence of both of you have had but you in particular helped shape. My understanding of christian worldview around the question of what it means to be human. And i just can't tell you how often That question emerges i mean you know and contemporary culture. It's kind of the fundamental central worldview question of our culture and it has to do with so many issues concerning bioethics so as exactly right i mean years ago. Of course the big question was. Is there a god and as it doesn't matter You know those questions. And and and controversies go on. But but i think you're exactly right. The fundamental question of our day of our era is what does it mean to be human. And what difference does that make on issues from beginning of life to end of life and everything in between including Covert virus vaccines. That's right. I mean certainly goes to the issue of death and dying but the other place it goes is it gives us a place to start grounding archaeological ethics grounding personal ethics and i just gotta say one of the things that i thought he merged in twenty twenty was a new level of politicization. If you could you whatever that word is a new way of making everything political which for many even christian conservatives. The tendency is to start at what side of my on politically rather than these fundamental worldview questions and it's a concern of mine As we look at christians who want to do the right thing who feel beleaguered and kind of in a position of distrust in the larger culture that that's kind of the place we start instead of these theological worldview categories Where we should start inaccurate. Concern certainly been one of my concerns. There's there's it seems that it's been difficult to step back from the fray if you will And try to get a and try to get a a bigger picture of the landscape as you ended as you're suggesting Looking at the landscape through theological lenses rather than through either political lenses cultural lenses. Or or you know. The lenses are shaped by the social media that we all are now Swimming in So it's been extraordinary. It's made twenty twenty Eh for everyone. Not just with respect to go but of course but has made twenty twenty. A remarkable remarkable Year and one. That i hope we don't have to relive anytime soon. Well i yeah amen to that and and look at the same time i get the distrust of kind of our news sources and our media sources and. That's actually really were. I want to begin so as the vaccines have rolled out here at the end of two thousand twenty. I mean you know in many ways. The speed at which this went from a problem to a vaccine is unprecedented. As i understand it and human history i mean it really is. It should go down in history as one of the great achievements of the trump presidency working with pharmaceutical companies We don't get those sort of headlines Positive headlines about the trump presidency measure where we're going to see that But at the same time you know. I'm old enough to remember as are you. You know the fact checker saying there's no way we're going to get this vaccine until mid twenty twenty one or late twenty twenty one Fact checking both the president and vice president and and and yet here we are so put it in context for us. How historic is the development in this before we get into the ethical questions and there are a lot of them are going to get to them. Just help us put into context really the speed and of this process. How historic is it a great. It's a great place to start and it is. I mean there's there's there's good reason why it's called operation warp speed this on this vaccine because it's never been done the rapidly of and that that causes concern for some. We'll talk about. But but i think i think it is a remarkable achievement and we'll go down in history as as just that vaccines aren't new. We've had thaksin's for a long time A and a german measles and all kinds of a taipei flu and New monja vaccines we. We have a history of vaccines and and we've been very deliberate because of some mistakes along the way we've been very deliberate as as a culture as a nation as scientific community about How one develops an effective vaccine to to try to assess accurately as much as possible. It's safety on the one hand and its effectiveness. On the other sometimes calls safety and efficacy and the federal drug administration. The fda has been set up to help us ensure that we have done a due diligence in assessing safety and efficacy normally Vaccines are developed over. A period of of tens of years Not not tens of months but tens of years and the the the last phase that used three phase process. The last phase of the process usually involves about three thousand six thousand volunteers and runs or a number of years. So it takes takes a long time. Traditionally to develop a vaccine but under operation warp speed. Not only was. The vaccine developed more quickly because we had international partners because It was a all hands on deck. We had had multiple companies working on this university settings Commercial settings all working on this and sharing their data sharing their information but the phase three trial for instance of pfizer vaccine alone enlisted forty four thousand participants not three six thousand as in a normal face retrial but in order to ensure that that we had done that due diligence for safety and efficacy we ve vastly expand the number of people who would be included in the face. Three trial to be sure as much as possible. We knew this vaccine would be safe and it would do what we hope it would do. Now they're still questions. I mean for instance in a normal face retrial. That runs for a number of years. We would know better what the long term affective nece going to be. We would know. Is this vaccine or epa. Better idea this vaccine going to cover us for a year or two years or forever or is its effectiveness. Going to be short lived. We don't know the answer to that. Yeah what we do know. seems to be That's a vaccine has a very high effectiveness for shirt short-term of immunity and in moreover Even if one gets a covert after having the vaccine the symptoms are are vastly more minor than they they might if you had not had the vaccine similarly the second vaccine approved in the united states moderna vaccine had three Thirty thousand in its phase three trial. So we've we've run. We've we've run the dame at at Fast a speed. But we've also tried to include the player so to speak to include many many more to be sure that this vaccine isn't isn't going to kill anyone now today to has the vaccines not killed a single person This will air in the future and no no guarantees that we will have have deaths but it doesn't seem that this vaccine has a lethal of potential at this point and and the potential for Been seems to be very very high. Well dr mitchell. Let's let's talk With dr ben mitchell. Talk then how that compares in a couple of other ways. Because i think that's really really important. Obviously we've seen caused to develop vaccines for things like polio and things that have You know they used to just be devastating across the world and are not anymore And yet the assumptions medically Going into the covid era early on which you know basically led to the initiation of operation warp speed s at some level. They've changed. I mean we didn't know what the death rate would be. We didn't know about Which populations would be so severely affected in how lopsided really that would be in the issues of co morbidity and all that sort of stuff so and a lot of people have pointed to that you know basically saying this is like the flu. It's not even a bigger deal I certainly Have known people who have gotten it and have been you know it was funny you during the first wave. No one. I knew really knew people who got an almost everybody knows somebody who's got the virus at some level or another and it varies. Some have been symptom. Some have been You know had a rough couple of weeks. Our friend john ericsson. Todd came down with it with you. Talk about co morbidity and pre existing conditions and she seems again. We're recording and this is going to air in the future it. She seems to have been Be doing okay And others like a very dear friend you know he legitimately thought he was going to die and He was in much better health. Even you know certainly the may It this thing seems all over the place so talk a little bit. About how the call to develop a vaccine for cova compares to some of these other Conditions that you know. Obviously we're all happy that no one gets polio anymore. right help helpless compare that well. I think i think what what struck us early on was the How how How quickly people developed who were going to develop severe symptoms and die. How quickly it happened. And i think that that puts in mind the necessity of what what we call in ethics and medicine Triage we need to find out of. Who's who's gonna die what we can do. And we treat the the most serious cases i and and so so we started a kind of triage a mindset. that said. we've got to get at this. Find out what's going on. And one of the peculiarities of this virus is to be that it finds the weaknesses in your system and it attacks those and for people who have copd love There are lung complications and and We see people put on ventilators for help without heart conditions There are valve issues of developing. So this this virus seems to seek out the the the weaknesses in our in our physiology and attack weaknesses and so we have the phenomenon. Now people who are asymptomatic that is they have no symptoms but they're carriers of the virus. We have those who have mild symptoms. Who who are covid positive. And then we have a so-called long kkob. These are people who not only suffer from the symptoms if they don't suffer from the symptoms for a long time but then they continue after after the. Kobe has been After become immune to the covid they continue with with multiple health issues out after the copen and so It's not just that they're smell never comes back. They may never be able to resume normal life and this was this was i. think Frightening to the health community Whereas some of the other The other Illnesses that we have that we have vaccines for Had a very long Trajectory to a devastating consequences. Yes they were devastating. Could lead could be lethal but they had a very long trajectory this of torture. Jeffrey pandemic not Not just a not just a A chronic So i think that. I think that changed the aim For a senate became a wanted which we needed something like an operation warp speed to find out as much as we could as fast as we could about the nature of this virus and then on a therapy in the form of vaccine just as quickly as we possibly could and so it was it was all all like i said. All hands on deck all holes barred. Let's give this can't again. Which makes people nervous sure And and you know there are still lots and lots of questions that we have about both about the virus and about the vaccine But again because of the the The number of people working on it. The the ethical protocols are in place to require that safety and efficacy be tested They'll all those protocols are in place. We just did the more more quickly. And because we've expanded the the The human trials the phase. Three human trials clinical trials We have. I think good reason to be hopeful of that. This would actually is both in fact safe and effective historically when when a vaccine like this is developed. Is it common that people die from the vaccine. Well there's always. I mean if you think about belcourt were you have a certain number of people on one end certain number of people on the other and then you have the vast or in the middle. Every vaccine in fact every drug has the potential to be lethal for some people. You can have an allergic reaction to a tylenol acetaminophen affects some people very very differently than does the majority of the population of public health. medicine is about exploring both the margins and the vast majority of people and Every every drug a in in some cases as potential to be lethal and every drug has a digital not to be effective at all but for the vast majority of people. Tylenol is a good drug given the right conditions In the for the vast majority of people i think we'll find On retrospect i think we'll find the for the vast majority of people The copen vaccines are going to be safe and effective. There may be tragedies and we'll have to. We'll have to think about what that means and how we have we deal with that but it's true every nearly every medicine that we have. That's why when you get your flu vaccine. You gives us little sheet that ask you. Are you allergic to eggs. Have you ever had an allergic reaction to any vaccine We won't try to avoid the tragedies and we do what we can to Dr mitchell i want to go to the promises real quick. We have a lot of ethical questions to get to. And and this conversation you know we need. To take time. There's too many tweets and too many hot takes too many headlines. That aren't giving us the facts. And i appreciate you just kind of methodically walking us through what we need to know here What can we expect again before we get to the the ethical questions. What can we expect in terms of now that the vaccine is here. What does this look like. I mean we are. Many people are weary were weary of lockdowns where weary of you know. limitations weary of loneliness That's another thing you and i talked about tat back. I think at the last time you were with us. Is you know the loneliness factor around. And i know you know. Even we told the story of Our producer here are audio producer. Your a breakpoint. Steve writer whose wife died during cove it of not from not having covid but that he and his boys weren't able to see her for three weeks because of those protocols before she passed away. And that's a wound that's not going to heal for him That's horrible So here's the vaccine. Is this going to give us the margins in the space to to to dow back some of these restrictions and of course. We've we've seen some governors clearly reveal how non essential they think houses of worship are as compared to strip clubs and casinos. Right i mean will no one thousand during the pandemic. Let's put it that way. So what does the vaccine bring. what's the timetable. What will we see a in terms of getting on top of this. The daily rates going down the death rates all that sort of stuff. Yeah let me let me respond to that in a couple of different ways one just a reminder to Those who are that. I'm not a physician. And i don't want to pretend to be one. I'm an ethicist. I have had tried to be careful in my in my analysis of the sources that i'm getting my information from a but i want to be clear that i'm not a physician secondly I'm glad that i'm a christian. And i'm glad that Most of your viewers are christians. Twelve because christians live in a and we really fall in messy in Dark dark world fact if we if we had a friend of who i think pointed out to me one day very aptly that If we could if we could see all of the evil going on in the world at one time we probably all our brains out that is to say it's just it's just a messy messy frail fallen world yet as christians. We live in hope because we know we know the of god are we know. Those promises have been Underwritten by the resurrection. Of jesus christ from the dead so we live in hope so all of that is to say. I believe that a based on what we know now. I believe that we will begin to see some of those restrictions lifted but but quickly and maybe not even anytime soon. I think we're going to have to continue to live in hope. What the vaccines have done. I think is give us a glimmer of hope that we will time Find a place where we're we don't have to socially distance. We don't have to wear masks. We can assemble without fear of contracting a deadly virus or at least this deadly virus And so so we live. We live in hope. But i don't think we're gonna see that At the beginning of the year. I think. I think it's gonna take time both for the vaccine to do its work. That is for Sufficient number of people to to get the vaccine and and Begin to build a kind of herd immunity that everybody talks about. I think is going to take take some time. But i do think i do. Think the vaccines give us that glimmer of hope that will need to persevere under the kind of strictures that we've all felt bound by During during now. I i'm not prepared to address I don't have anyone who lives of all of the different decisions. All governors across the country have had make. I'll tell you this about our own jurisdiction in the city of jackson tennessee where i reside we have a tertiary. Care medical center that is overwhelmed. with corona And interestingly enough jackson madison county where we reside has a mandatory mask mandate but the surrounding counties do not and host of the covid cases in our hostile right now are from residents of the counties. That don't have mandatory mask mandates. So my point is just to say that I think. I think masks and Physical distancing. I hate term social distancing but distancing may may be part of our culture for a multiple months yet to come but I think i think we're going to be able to begin to relax. Some of those Some of those restrictions overtime without any of the first to echo that there are some language that we've there's some language that we've used that we should learn from this never to us again Social distancing as one of them and non essential worker is another But let's get into the ethical questions by far the number one question we hear from our audience is has to do with whether these vaccines were derived using fetal cells. And what that means and That's a really important question. Interestingly enough by the way. I just kind of an anecdote but just received a wonderful email encouraging email from one of our our our listeners. Who is a who works on. Vaccine. immunology does that sort of thing in As a pediatrician. That's kind of area. In fact he's been working. I believe if i remember correctly on hep c. Is his area focus and he talked about how in his area of study. He has to navigate these ethical challenges of fuel cell derived and what that means Our catholic brothers and sisters have come on different levels of this. I mean got The i think the us council of business that have come down and said okay. These are okay. There are still some voices in the catholic church saying no. These viruses were derived using fetal cells. It's unethical Help us think through that. Those are its regulations Everyone who cares about a pro-life issues has to begin. We want i is there a complicity with evil. Is there a cooperation with the evil of abortion So i let me point to a source of viewers will be very interested in this in the charlotte losure institute l. o. z. E are charlotte losure instant David prentice who's a scientist charlotte losure institute and his colleagues have put together a white paper on the ethical provenance or ethical genesis of the did the various vaccines that are being developed and they track they track or trace um the vaccines that have Cooperation with a fetal tissues derived from abortion In fact for instance these first two. Vaccines the pfizer vaccine. Modern a vaccine contained no fetal tissues. Were not developed or derived from fetal tissues. There is a test that is used on on the the vaccines as they're being developed That come from a set of cells That were retrieved and nine hundred seventy three in the netherlands from of abortion this test does not contribute to the vaccine Any any any tissues and cells any any Any of the biology of the vaccine and There's no one who is saying Aren't you glad well. I wouldn't have known i know is saying. Aren't you glad we did this. Abortion back in one thousand nine hundred seventy three So we'd we'd have the cells. And no one i know of Is saying and what we need are more boertien so get more cells so that we can Develop a test like this. There are other sources now that we have For for instance i mean. A miscarriage could provide kinds of tissues. That may be needed for these kinds of these kinds of tests as tragic as the miscarriage would be It it it might provide those kinds of tissues the charlotte luxury Traces the track set for us. And so it's very very helpful. I think most of us who who would worry That the vaccine pfizer madonna. Some others Would cooperate with evil. Have have Convinced that We are far enough removed from both the the lord took place historically but more importantly the motivation a of abortion that that We're far enough removed from that. That's not ethical problem especially especially since it's the test that has been used not and not the development of the vaccine itself. Not least let me. Let me add this caveat. What we what we want to from from from here on out what we want to encourage drug manufacturers and vaccine developers is start with a morally clean slave that that no one would dispute so that we don't have to worry about that We want we want to begin with with with a process and with Substances with with chemicals and and by biological materials that are not in any way ethically suspect if we if we could begin their We put all of our fears about that. At least to rest. And as you say. Some very very strong a pro-life advocates including the castle guest catholic bishops have have said that we We can deal with this in an ethical way again pointed. Charlotte losure ensued and To mother sources like catholic bishops Who are without question in their pro-life commitments to help us. Think through that formerly speaking. There's a there is a there is a a theology of complicity with evil That you could you could find a in a web search for instance And There are are protocols for thinking through a very systematic way. That's what catholic bishops. An and others of us tried to try to do it. It's a helpful exercise even to go through that study because things. I don't wanna say things aren't black and white but i think we often think about evil as if it's like a rock thrown into a glass of water and you can just pull that rock back out and therefore you're you know but evil in the world as a as a i think plans book does such a great job. The bravery of sin Not the way it's supposed to be much more like a drop of die in the water you're working through. This is is extremely difficult. But as always will link to some of these resources at breakpoint dot org including the charlotte lows your study. Which is really really important and really helpful Let let me go to another question and because it's also been You mentioned in terms of Pharmaceutical companies starting at an ethically problematic. Replace who which can't we only hope right That that would be the case going forward. There is some concerns about the fact that the modern and the pfizer vaccines were developed differently than conventional. Vaccines it's a new approach. And i mean i've looked at this every different way trying to really understand it and it's just you know above my pay grade. So could you walk us through the differences in the modern. The pfizer vaccines in particular. And that was one of the reasons that operation warp speed was able to work. I think is because of this different kind of approach and people. I think who understand parts of it are they have ethical concerns like but this is actually going to change. Dna is that what happens. no it doesn't so with conventional vaccines Well let me start start this way. over what we're trying to do is get the body in its immune system to reject the the virus That's what that's what our body does. Every day all the time is rejected different assaults. At if we have a strong immune system we are rejecting those assaults. All the time So to trigger in a conventional vaccinated trigger the immune system to respond and push away A virus what we've done is to inject a weakened or inactivated a germ into our bodies and that's why people worry. Sometimes about the thing about flu shot is just gonna give me the flu While it's an inactivated A virus so. It's not going to do that but what it does. Is it tells your body act as if you have this virus and your immune system. This is one of god's a marvellous miraculous. Bits of handiwork. You're in system kicks in then starts attacking This virus That that it thinks that you have and so you built up an immunity to The virus when it when it does come well in the case of these new vaccines. We're using technology that we with that has been developed and used and other ways though not in a vaccine yet Called messenger are in a technology. It's genetic technology but it doesn't alter our cells what it does is is is Teaches ourselves to make a protein to Trigger this immune response so this messenger are in a doesn't become part of our dna. It just tells our dna Develop this response. So it triggers that response in our bodies an immune response that later triggers. What we call. Antibodies is what protects us from getting infected if the real virus entered our bodies so Our dna is not being altered With we're not. We're not to and and believe me. And you know this as well as anybody i'm as Cautious about genetic manipulation as you'll find This is not manipulating our genetics. It is teaching our our genes or telling our jeans Do your work in creating a kind of immune response in. Its using a kind of a dna technology to to do that. one thing. I can simple as i can make it one thing. I can absolutely vouch for in your case is that you are very concerned about unintended. Consequences of the technologies used for healing will be used for enhancement. Were technologies used to preserve. Life will be used to extend life for you know unethically or to take life. Unethically is again. that's the darn thing about. Unintended consequences is intended in. Often unforeseen. are are there any unforeseen consequences here four this sort of new technology In other words that it could be used in chemical weapons or biological weaponry or anything like that well perhaps oh But the technologies over ten years old. Okay experience with with a r. for a long time. It's just that this is the first time it's been included vaccine development human vaccine development so Y- might there be more of side effects. That's possible but but the indication seems to be what we know so far is That that the vaccines have side effects are not long lasting in. They're not severe For most people the the side effects are relatively mild. You may have a little fever you may have. Little soreness in the spot of the jackson But but they don't seem to be you know we don't have long term data here right But they don't seem to be Right now kind of mid rank. Each side effects that that are are particularly worrisome. The one question of the question that we have received is some early Warnings that these vaccines and it may have just been. The fires are one. If i remember correctly in the source that i saw Potentially could render a woman in fertile and i think it had to do with the fact that the admission that these things had not been adequately tested on pregnant women Any any what's the update on that I don't know. Honestly a john de i don't wanna speak. I don't know the latest on that myself. I do know that They're discouraging Women Who are trying to get pregnant from taking the vaccine and So i think i think again this is the this is another example to mit in my mind. Another example where our protocols Are helping us to avoid unnecessarily harming people who might be harmed so though um we're telling were now telling people if you have a history of allergic reactions to vaccines or other thing you may not want to take this vaccine right now. We're telling women who are are Considering getting pregnant Not to take the vaccine right now. Those are those are good warning. They're not things it ought to make us. Fearful there things ought to say. Thank thank both god and Our long history of studying efficacy and safety that that we have these kind of protocols in place and they were able to make these kinds of of were able to inform patients about the potential side of it is is that is that warning more that there have been negative consequences for women trying to get pregnant or it hasn't been adequately tested so we don't know so don't tell ya i think it has been adequately tested we don't we don't know data yep speaking of which that's actually an ethical concern right. I mean back when just as we're recording this A group of african american pastors. Of course we know. The african american community has been Very much hit hard by the cobra. Virus ed stetzer. Our friend with the southern baptist convention and wheaton college has talked and reported on the devastation in many african american churches. And of course it has to do with all kinds of Things the But a group of african american pastors basically said we're not ready to recommend getting vaccinated and of course that has a lot to do with the history of how vaccinations and testings were used in a eugenic. Sort of way We can think about the syphilis testing and so on and You know which is a horrific chapters in american history but also there's that larger fear. That's just an example. The larger fear by many in the population is just look. It's called operation words warp speed. That's not the name you want for a vaccine. Because you don't want to do things that way Talk us through that not great. It's a great point. And i don't blame or or i would never gain say Minority individuals for their caution of about The ways in which majority culture has used Science in ways that were harmful to them. You mentioned the tuskegee. Syphilis experiments where we're thousands of patients African american patients were used in in syphilis experiments and never told that they had syphilis basically as guinea pigs. That never informed that they. They had syphilis that they went continued to carry. And then Pass pass along to other. So so these are. These are very very bleak chapter in the history of science. The question that i think is still on the table though is You mentioned you mentioned. Are fatigue are weariness with the restrictions. So if if we don't if we don't take the vaccine How how much longer do we have to live with these actions How much longer do we have to live with. The fear that we might contract covid And then and then the question are the are the risks of not taking the vaccine worse than the risks of taking the vaccine given though the lack of long term longitudinal data that we have and i think. That's that's a question everybody's going to have to answer. Upsells You know are are you so today this this day. Recording more than three thousand people will have died from covid nineteen Are the risks of taking the vaccine or lesser than that you know We're gonna have to assess that ourselves. And again i i can. Well imagine of the fear of an caution of a minority communities about eighteen. I can only hope that we'll see enough good results from from the development of this this vaccine That those fears will begin to abate. The other thing i would say is there are. There are significant numbers of of african americans and latinos. Who are part of the scientific community. I think we need to hear from them as well. They were the fda They worked for these companies. We need to hear from them as well. Are they worried about the safety of these vaccines I think they would be helpful. Guides in about. But there's a group you know. I think they have to do more with kind of the segments of the population that are rural conservative In many ways that just think that we're over vaccinating They have concerns. Some would be antibac- sers of course. That's the nickname. Some would be more like a lot of families i lab. We might even consider ourselves one of them. It's just like you know. I'm not sure we need to you. Know vaccinate everything and that seems to be the recommendation for doctors and protocol and so on and That that actually is a way of doing health maintenance that could undermine our immunity system in the long run. You know i mean give give us the stuff that will kill us but you know i. And this is a hard thing from a christian worldview. People think it's really clear the hard thing is is that god actually has called us to be co-creators. He's given humans and amazing ability to do things that are more like god than like animals and our ability to to see behind the surface to and also to to heal to to be healers These are good things and yet we're dealing with fallen brains and fallen minds and fallen motives all at the same time these so i actually sympathize pretty well with people who struggle and i struggle with that sir Because it's not a to me. It's not just while the scientific community says it And therefore it's you know we should. We should do it. I mean fair. Enough of the people need to do their homework. I you know one of the things we've seen in the last year and more is an enormous number of conspiracy theories. I hope you'll do a program. Podcast on we've we've got a couple of we get some great emails when we because i heard somebody say today. They were watching the video of algae and francis collins and Sector as are getting the vaccine and they said notice notice that s. The the needle goes goes toward their arm. The actually doesn't go in their arm They've they've made it appear to be that they're getting a vaccine but if not really getting the vaccine You know there are reasonable. There are there are Rational and reasonable concerns and then and then there are just things that i i don't know how to reconcile that in my mind Are we are. We're saying there's a vast conspiracy that includes people of the character of anthony fauci and francis collins and Sector as our who are willing to put millions of people around the world at risk of by by taking a fake vac vaccination. I mean that just seems so unreasonable to me that that doesn't make any sense and so. I just think we have to do our homework. And everybody's going to have to erase going to have to come to terms with their position on vaccine but but they're also going to have to. They're also going to have to realize when they do that. Whatever your perspective is When they when when you make a decision about that you may impact others because the protection is not primarily for you and hopefully some of these vaccines may promised to help you as much as they do others. But they're keeping you from being an acp thematic carrier who's going to affect other people who are more vulnerable perhaps Than you are. So let's talk a and that goes back right to where we began. Which is you know. So many of us are starting from these politically entrenched positions as opposed to starting with truth now i'm not saying that biblical true doesn't align more with one political perspective or one set of political perspectives and others. I think that's you know those of us that are pro life and pro marriage and pro religious liberty. some of that seems pretty obvious But i but i. But i do. Think cautious we. We have become as guilty as others. As as being what chuck colson would call ideological starting there And letting every leading that kind of become the theory of everything that explains All of life all right a couple more. You've been a trooper. Thank you dr bennett joe for walking through all these and this is the one thing i wanted to do was not do hot. Do a hot take and not. Do you know a slogan or a mean but slowly work through all of these The last two after do with the administration of this and ethical concerns one has to do with the rationing a of the vaccines. Now this in my mind spawns from a couple of different places. We saw what happened in italy. At the beginning of covid were literal. People literally people who were arrested. Were going to be high risk. They basically were sent home In many cases because the system was overwhelmed. At least that's the report we heard From a number of sources There were there was talk at the beginning of the vaccine including one very annoying Infamous article now that has made its rounds which suggested that we should not prior prioritize at risk populations because they tend to be older and white. We should prioritize minorities because of the systemic injustice and that that will and i'm using their words your balance the scales. Now that's not a You know i. I don't think that's a a common position that many would hold. But it did make it into a you know popular publication But there is that concern of rationing is that is that really kind of a short lived. Concern is that with with the size of the production and the the distribution. You know the the process being kind of smoothed out even between the time we record this and certainly by the time this conversation airs on our podcast. What are the concerns here about rationing. It's you know this is one of the first times i've heard it described as rationing because the area in which i work the area of bioethics. We've we've had these questions All the time they revolve around would call triage ethics. So think of the battlefield. You have limited resources you have you have Soldiers who are coming in from the battlefield. limited personnel to care for them. You have limited Medicines and and other other things to care for them who stare. I and in those cases triage ethics the people who get the care. I are the people who are who are most likely to die if they don't get the care a as quickly And who And then others who are less acute Get the the care necks. And so you have this queue this this lineup of people Who with the sickest verse of getting getting the treatment scientist group with our organ transplantation system. If you get on the transplant list As you're really sick and the sickest get the sickest meeting those who are most likely to die more quickly They get the organ. i This is this is triage ethics. That happens all the time in emergency rooms around the country but what we've said is I first of all we have to protect the care. Givers the the healthcare workers. And it's not gonna do anybody any good if we don't have healthcare workers to to care for them so we give them the vaccine first and then we look at those. Most vulnerable populations populations that are going to die of covid quicker and in more numbers than If we if we didn't vaccinate them and so you know you get People in nursing homes and the work in nursing homes You used lovely term That i i always find so so i just find it. Sort of british understatement. Biddies we give those who have the most co morbidity the next the next shot literally a co morbidity is meaning you have multiple serious health problems heart problems copd atrial fibrillation All kinds of all kinds of things so so we want to give you the so. This is triage ethics. it's not. It's not rationing in in the sense that we're going to determine that some people don't get it at all. It's a question of who gets it first and So a social proposed. Why heard on a national review podcast just recently. I thought about you because they were talking about this particular article. And i've read it already and they were talking about ethicists and they're you know you think about guys like Peter singer for example. And he's not really doing ethics. He's basically taking kind of a social agenda and doing it in the language of ethics. And i think that's the concern. I mean. there certainly is a huge difference between someone who writes an article and someone who's actually making the decisions that the challenges that francis schaeffer line of despair that these ideas that starting the academy eventually you creep their way down like with doctor assisted suicide and abortion and and you know elective abortions and then sex selective abortions and things like that and i think that's the concern In in the long run. Yeah yeah. I mean. I understand that. I think i think what what the triage ethic tries to do is is let not let skin color or A cultural bias sees the decision. But if you will lab values affect the decision what is what is this person's physiology quite apart from their from their social contribution quite apart from there Whether they got three kids and a house Quite apart from what their economic status is whether they they make a thousand dollars a year or million dollars a year It's it's too much as possible. Remove the status questions and just look at how sick and vulnerable people are. Of course we get the healthcare providers protected I mean it makes it makes some sense to me and it's it's it avoids the problem of of the eugenic problem that you identify of saying well. We're only gonna let the healthy get the the the vaccine and we're going to only let those who have a certain number of productive years left Get the vaccine who will contribute back to the economy. No we're gonna we're gonna we're gonna take care of our old people at we're gonna take care of people who are sick and vulnerable and we're gonna take care of the disabled and we're gonna take care of of People who have contributed You know to culture and society for years. We're gonna take care of them because they're sick and yet no fair enough. It is interesting that these conversations are these. Practical conversations are happening after year. Where a conversations about privilege about Identities cultural identities have been so prevalent. And it does complicate things quite quite a bit in the popular imagination So yeah all right last question. There certainly is a concern by many is having to do with whether vaccines should be or will be forced and i think some people have in mind. You know government enforcement You know we were thinking about things. like enrolled being able to enroll in schools or federal programs. Or anything like that but there's also You know the kind of the indirect or the passive requirements in other words to participate. Here you have to have been vaccinated and you could see that from you know in a year or two's time whether it's if you really want to travel to hawaii then you know you have to demonstrate that you've been vaccinated or if you want to enroll at the university of north carolina because it's a state school or you know something along those lines of either directly forced vaccinations or passively or indirectly forced Vaccinations walks to the ethics around that. Yeah i don't. I don't think we're going to see a kind of mandatory government a enforced vaccination program Now there may be there may be certain populations within that. Maybe maybe soldiers. I don't know military shirk up. See how that works out Have a nephew who's a lieutenant In in the army right now and you know they're having these discussions. What about those of us. Who don't yet seal. The vaccine is safe and effective. Will we have to take it. And they have had this. And i don't speak for the but but from his perspective they've not had any directives and down to them yet. might there be employers. Who say we want all of our our our staff to have a vaccination. I think that's possible I you ask about the ethics I think that that this is an area where there there is a legitimacy to questions about safety ineffectiveness. I think i think there are. There are still questions. None of us have the answers to and we have to put those in the category of You know other risks that we take when we don't have all the data Imaginable or possible. But i think that there are enough questions that i think there should be a place for people to object to the vaccination if they're not prepared to have them in the same way that we that we provide a people to object. Vaccinations other vaccinations. So so i think. I think we're going to have to have a place for a sort of conscientious objection. to the vaccine You raise a very interesting question about universities. Though i mean there are universities that have mandatory. The you've gotta show your shock card you got right shares asian record Will this be added to it. I think that's probably going to be a case by case basis or state by state Decision and People will have to make decisions about where they wanna go to college Their view of of vaccines. But that's already already cases in some of some jurisdictions where people say i. Don't you know my my child doesn't have the vaccine and They can't go to that school because they don't have that vaccine. We'll method will have to navigate that. I do think that this is a place where we need a big At a broad cultural conversation though and Not not a have. It handed down from You know some Government bureaucratic office that. This is what we're going to do. I don't think that'll happen That that that is gonna come down from from just a bureaucratic decision. But i do think That we we need to have a national conversation about maybe a global conversation about them there. Yeah i mean there's already obviously global implications of this. You can't get into some countries unless you some shots and some of them seem pretty shady to me and very uncomfortable so Yeah there's a lot of those questions well. Hey you've been trooper and we've walked through a whole lot of content and that's that was really my goal in this conversation. I don't expect that we'll hear from everyone who says thank you for enlightening may and i agree one hundred percent but i did know dr a been mitchell that with you we would get a clear headed Slow walk through the nuances of the conversation. And i do know as you know you well. Enough to know that your concerns first and foremost for the inherent dignity of every single person as made in the image and likeness of god Your vision of Our duty to love god and to love neighbor and Also you know a pretty You know i think clear-headed vision of the the scope and the scale of of government where it belongs and we're a dozen form the conversation and that we would be able to walk through and at least have this conversation with More information hopefully. This is created a lot more light than it has heat. Even if you come away listening and saying i disagree with him there. I think you guys miss it over here. I get that this is a hard conversation but what you got. Today was an awful lot of facts. Awful lot of data and clear-headed journey through the ethical questions. And and it's it's been a significant Dense and long conversation. So i'm grateful to you doctor ben mitchell for walking us through it all well thank you john and i appreciate your your good work and i you know i want i want. I don't know that. I am but i want to be worthy of your confidence and i think this is. This is the kind of thing we're going to have to do. We're just gonna have to talk it through a look at the data and make our own assessments about it. And i would love for us. On december twenty third twenty twenty one to come back and do a kind of retrospective not as a way of casting. Blame just say. Hey how did we do was was are thinking about. This clear was helpful If we face this again or when we face it again how do differently We need we need some Just as as we need clear pro. prospective vision. We need some clear retrospective visions. I i listen. You're on let's do it. That's the schedule that right. Now put it on the calendar. Because i you know we. We've already talked about the isolation issues alone. You know the loneliness issues. You started our whole journey through this pandemic back in. I guess early march just thinking through a theology of death and dying. And you know these are these these ideologies the way we look at disease the way we look at each other the way we look at our culture. These are pre existing conditions. Is that we're not. We're not doing these conversations or this journey. Neutrally were doing it. you know. Loaded with worldviews and worldview assumptions and And we we need to acknowledge that and the ability to look back and go man. We didn't data thousand Maybe we did we did. We did better than we think. We thought at the time. Maybe we did a lot worse. And we'll know a little bit more. We still may not know it. All but let's Let's plan to have that conversation. Let me just say we're recording. People were probably hearing this after christmas and the new year. But merry christmas to you and your family into you. I'm grateful for your influence in my life. And and your help with so many things here colson center. Thank you john. It's been a privilege and merry christmas to you. And i are twenty twenty. One is brighter than our buddy. Twenty has been may be so.
Episode 71: 1,112,975, with Dr. Mitchell Katz
"It one million one hundred twelve thousand nine hundred seventy five the number of unique patients served by New York City, health and hospitals in fiscal year. Twenty eighteen h and H was created to more efficiently management nipple, hospitals and health facilities and it plays a critical role in providing health insurance to the most vulnerable New Yorkers, namely those uninsured and those on Medicaid it also plays an outsized role as a provider of inpatient mental health services H and H has been under fiscal pressure for quite some time and cash losses are projected future years in this episode. You'll hear Dr Mitchell cats, the c o beach discuss this transformation plan for closing those gaps and improving the fiscal viability and services provided by h and h. Welcome to what's the data point from citizens budget commission and Gotham gazette. This is Ben maximum gotten because that. Thanks for much for joining us. We have special episode today. We've done a few of these before. But we have Dr Mitchell hats of health and hospitals who gave some remarks at a CBC breakfast and tune in for those are going to be right after are fairly brief QNA with Dr cats, which he sat down with us after giving his remarks at the breakfast. So it's a little bit out of order. But you get to hear are quick unit with him. And then his full remarks on this episode. So stay tuned for both those pieces and before we get to that. If you've missed any of our recent episodes, we just did a good one on the new state budget. Although there's a lot more to dissect there, we recently had former deputy mayor Alicia Glen, join us on her tenure we've had department of transportation Commissioner Polly trot Berg, Nicole, July from the Manhattan institute. A lot of great episodes to start this year that is quickly advancing. So find those if you've missed any of them and stay tuned right now for our conversation with. Dr Mitchell cats and then his remarks at the breakfast. So we're here with Dr Mitchell cats, thank you so much for taking a few minutes with us after your remarks of the CBC breakfast. We'll just ask a few few follow up questions and folks can tune in after this little chat for your for your full remarks, but go so talked with really centered about how the transformation plan will work, but our CBC audiences heavily invested in kind of the dollars and sense. Right. So you've got both the expense reducing initiatives and the revenue raisers in terms of the sums the money sums, which the sort of core initiatives that will help close the gaps that are projected at eighteen h sure so the the largest initiative closing the gap is to correctly Bill for insured patients. This is not one thing. It's a very long process that begins actually by getting fare rates from insurance plans and we've discussed. I heard that in some cases, the rates that we're paid are way below what other institutions are paid for the same patients. We have to be good at making sure that we collect insurance information that we call for prior authorization that we correctly coat bills that we send them to the correct place, and that we appeal in a timely fashion. If the insurance does not pay the amount and this discipline has not been part of health, and hospitals culture because health and hospitals always viewed itself as well. We take care of everybody regardless of insurance. Nobody was that focused on insurance. The other half of the churns initiative is making sure that those people who are eligible for insurance actually are on insurance whether that's Medicaid or the exchange. We know that the many of our patients. It's are eligible and again because of the generosity of health and hospitals throughout time. There was never any reason to apply for shirts because you got great care, and you pay ten dollars. So why would you go to the trouble of enrolling? So that's the second part of the revenue other initiatives that will bring in more revenue our single other largest is developing a retail pharmacy on at our hospitals. This is something helped hospitals use to and stop doing for not a good reason. Because public hospitals are able to purchase medications that lower costs than commercial pharmacies. We'd be able to prescribe and dispense medicines for our patients at our hospitals, and we would actually make a margin that we could then plow into improving care throughout half and hospitals. Return, you you laid out a little bit of a plan to address serious mental illness, something that's been the topic of a lot of conversation. Obviously in part related to added scrutiny of the first lady's thrive in y c initiative, but the principles that you laid out and connecting to the fact that helping hospitals provides the correctional care that you mentioned, can you can you tie those together and are the principles you laid out about new ways to dress serious, mental illness, and sort of bridging the gap in coverage as I think, you you more or less said is that an actual plan is that is that moving forward or is that just abroad outline at. I mean, it's it's moving forward in every system. I've worked what tends to happen is the disciplines rule instead of the patient's needs ruling. So, you know, people say, well, I'm. This. I'm that I do with this. I doubt, I'm impatient. Doctor. I'm outpatient doctor. I'm a social worker Macaire manager. I do mental health I do physical. But people they're fully integrated. Right. They often don't really know what their issue is. They may have severe mental illness, and it presents entirely as a physical problem. They many physical problem, and it's all reflective of mental health illness. And we, you know, as caretakers don't really take into account the complexity of people, and we don't take into account the importance of relationships people get better, mostly on the basis of relationships non on the basis of medications that you dispense the medications can be helpful. So, you know, my view is route health and hospitals. How do we make the system? More client, focus, more patient, focus than especially. In the area of mental health with how do we really think deeply about what are the needs of people with serious, mental illness, and and so are looking to implement that that program that you talked about that between toppled hospitalizations of just working with the state, and how does that relate to correctional health where so many people with gerbil with in the case of correctional health where we know in New York City is that there is a group of people with various severe mental health and addiction problems who rotate between the acute hospital the shelter on the sale. And what we need. If we want to interrupt that cycle is that at the time of hospitalization, if they're not the it's true. Then again, I think this is where that mistake comes in that at a certain point people don't need cute Lockton up services. Okay. That doesn't mean that the right next step for homeless severely, mentally ill person is case management appointment next week. So yes, they don't need to be locked up. But let's provide them a positive residential program that they wanna stay at because it's better than shelter. And it's better than the jail. I mean, we know that there are people who get arrested in order to be taken care of in jail. And what a sad statement that we as a society can't do. Better than that. And it doesn't save us any money right jail is the most expensive because you have all the costs of medical care you've zero reimbursement. Even if they have Medicaid because by federal law, if you're if you're in jail, there's no reimbursement. And then you have all the cost of security. So you know, the fact that we make it necessary for some people to commit shoplifting in order to be sure that they're in a safe place, get their meds. Get the food and our house when we could do that so much less expensively. Elsewhere is really condemnation on us and you're looking to add those right those. Yes. Bags those programs. So one thing he spoke about in. Your remarks was how you work with labor to move forward on the transformation plan. And you also spoke about the challenges of kind of tackling bureaucracy at H h talk about a little bit about how you approach that you pursue that. If you've instituted a kind of a process to help get at some of these things, and whether Labor's been productive, you know, a good partner in doing that, look and Liber is a semi works has been a great partner, and we share the same goals as concerned, which is providing quality care to our patients in growing, the public sector and having it be successful on terms of limiting bureaucracy. So we shouldn't be employment for so people do not have to fill out sixty pages. And nothing has to be notarized. I've flat in the organization so that I have many more directly ports, and I encourage others to do the same. Same. There should be as little as few layers between CEO and the nurse taking care of patients as possible, right? Because that's how you change culture. Right. If they're fourteen levels, right? I've some of the best ideas, we've had about fixing the program came because I told a medically that people could Email me ideas. Now that may seem like a really trivial thing. What what isn't trivial is that historically h h has been run more like a paramilitary organization in the sense that you can only talk to your supervisor felt that you're not you don't bring things to anyone else. And my my view is no we should talk to everybody, and we should admit how problems right? I think another thing. I've heard often is you shouldn't talk about the things that are not working at H and H because then someone will try to close you down. I, and of course, you know, you can't begin to make something better. If you can't talk openly about it straits and weaknesses. So we've had great ideas, come from line, staff physicians physician assistants, nurses, all along. Do you know if you've eliminated the number of layers between you and the well have just I eliminated a level. Actually, I've since coming limited to level tools. So yeah. But file pushing for me one more for me. We'll let you go. We've got your full remarks to generous with your time. So thank you. What are the two or three changes at the state or the federal level that would really be impactful for helping finances and services at eighteen h? Expanding Medicaid to include the undocumented, and that's not just about money because frankly, right now emergency Medicaid does cover, but it creates a separate process. And it also means that there be emergency, Medicaid will pay for hospitalization and emergency room all the expensive stuff, but what it won't pay for is insulin to keep somebody's diabetes controlled. So they don't need that. So it would be better for everybody. Just let's have one program for low income people on their here if the US wishes to pursue immigration policy changes than pursue immigration policy changes. But but while people are here, this is what other countries do as well. You know, the here they're working take care of them. We. Zorg the expense. Anyway. So, you know, I think that I think pushing through behavioral health, physical health integration stopped funding them as separate things. It's one thing there is there is despite you know, Freud being very smart there is no Seki right there. Right. Our brains or as much, you know, physiologically run as any other part of our body. It's all chemicals and neurons and that the Bateman of these separate systems of care with separate rules. Right. I mean, for example, the all mental health care is licensed by different group at the state than physical healthcare. Just as a. Everything follows from that. Right. And again, so that means that there is a set of rules about how you would take care of somebody's mental health that's different than physical health. Can you imagine? If we said that there was a different system authority for diseases of the heart versus diseases of the stomach. That's crazy. What why would you have an office of cardiology in an office of gastroenterology run by different people with different payment. They all everyone pays you differently. Everyone eligible is is differently. Right. No one would would accept that too. That that's crazy. But it's really the same thing that we instead of trying to treat people as whole people. We we separate them out. And just lastly the recent announcement with the mayor about the NYC care program. You're in your remarks. You mentioned, you know, trying to identify who's uninsured, and how many can be insured, and as you just indicate your answer to Maria, you know, making undocumented people eligible for Medicaid, it would be a fix you'd like to see. But in the interim, that's not the case. And you're trying for those who can't be insured. You're trying to link. Everybody up with a primary care doctor correctly. That's the cetera central goal of that. I might see correct pro career where does that stand? I mean what what's the sort of process there? They're getting that done. Well, so, you know, I think the mayor's been great about supporting and really leading this initiative goes live in the Bronx the summer, and as you say, the focus is on linking people to care. And I think it's interesting in the discussions about insurance often to get insurance. Not care insurance is a financial system often financial system with. Profit designed to pay for the care that you get right? It's designed to take money and send money it's not about care, and you can have an insurance card be rich or poor. And not be able to get the care you need. It's not just low income people in the US who are dissatisfied with the healthcare system gear. Right. The people at every income level who are dissatisfied with the care. And it's because so much is about the insurance and not enough the care. So I think the mayor's initiative is great. It's going to Lao us to add on all the customer service initiatives and expand access to primary care doctors throughout I forgive me. Because what you just said I have to ask. So are you and and we don't cover h h very closely so forgive me through sadness as well. But so based on what you just said, do you favor a single payer government? I do I personally favour single pay as a physician. It's can be so frustrating to me because instead of spending my time trying to care for people. I can spend my time trying to figure out what medicine is on their formularies or what what things their insurance allows. Okay, cable this one allows eight physical therapy visits this when the last six physical therapy visits. This medication be if it's given in this way will cost the person more. I just wanted to care people. And I'm going to take care of them in a cost effective way. I'm not in favor of like to spending more and more money. I just think what a waste of time. I think as in New York Times had a very good article. It's the how do we get there from here? It's a very hard road import because there's money to be made from insurance. And do you know, how do you know, how insurance companies make money? It's all about float you pay your premium. Right. Okay. So you pay and then at some point you might have an expects kit, but they've already had your money right from before you had the expense. Let's say you go to the doctor. They're not gonna pay your doctor that day. Right. So so maybe they've had your money. Then you go to the doctor, then the doctor has to do a bunch of stuff maybe in two months. The doctor sends the Bill to insurance may be in another month or two they send the money all of that is the float the whole insurance agent the whole insurance industry in the US is based on the power of the flow. That's what they make the money. We're going to have to have you back for a longer conversation a few months or so. Thank you for taking a few minutes. Thank you, Mark closer. So I I took a Red Eye specifically. So I could be here with all of you. And I was almost defeated by the Lincoln tunnel. As you might imagine. But I'm proud to talk about the transformation of health and hospitals, health, and hospitals is an organization with a huge art, but not necessarily the best business acumen when it comes to running things are at least that would be my assessment based on fourteen or fifteen months. The good thing is that it's a lot harder to find good doctors. Good, nurses in get good clinical care than it is to, you know, basically make assist the work. And I think we've discovered it even in the fourteen months that we've been there that this is an entirely doable project. We haven't a race the deficit, but we now have a plan that will race the deficit, and we are so far on that plan. So a big picture all county systems, including health and hospitals existed before low income. People had insurance. Right. So prior to Lyndon Johnson, no low income people had insurance. And so, of course, all care delivered couldn't be reimbursed. What happened is I through Johnson Medicaid Medicare than they've been a variety of Medicaid expansions, culminating with the ACA what public systems had to do. During those years is get better and better at billing and figuring out how to survive just as all other Medicaid providers. Do that was certainly something. I saw in San Francisco that was something that I saw in Los Angeles. And for whatever reason health and hospitals was a little bit slower to get there. But now we are there. We in terms of patient revenue, which is the real money not not money that comes from lobbying. We produce. One hundred fifty million dollars last year more patient revenue than the year before and this year on top of that hundred and fifty million we have another fifty million. So we're going to be two hundred million. And this is just the beginning of the efforts because a proper billing requires everything from whether or not the person who comes in asks for your insurance card prior authorization holds the record correctly sends the Bill to the right place. Appeals the Bill if it's not paid. It's a long process in there are lot of places with that can go wrong. If the system is not used to doing this, and certainly H and H the wonderful thing about it has a tremendous culture of we take care of everybody. Which I one hundred percent support in part of why I'm so passionate about billing insurance companies because I want enough money to take care of everybody. And I want to take care of them in a quality way to me there. There is a no valor in running a system of the ticks care of everybody. If it doesn't take good care of them. Right. The point is to provide quality care to low income people not to just be a place that you don't send bills from. So that's been a major part of the transformation. There is more work to be done. We've discovered that often the rates that private insurance is paying us off the curve in general. You're not supposed to know what anybody is getting paid except their consultants. Maybe some of you in the room who gets how you what everybody is getting paid. So. And it's it can actually even be more apparent than that. I get my health care at health and hospitals support my system, and I discovered from my own insurance Bill that this particular insurer. Would I have Cadillac city insurances employees is paying forty two dollars for a first visit with a primary care doctor now nobody could break even on forty two dollars. I visit for primary care doctor. Right. You not only have the expensive of the doctor, but you have the nurse soup, which you in the room the registration clerk coup who put check the schedule. And then all the people who have to send out the Bill to get that forty two dollars. And I can tell you from my experience with the same ensurer when I was in Los Angeles. I've been broken my leg and got my care at cedars Cedars-Sinai, cedar Sinai was. Very different rates from my same Cadillac insurance provider. Right because they had negotiated a different rate because insure wants Cedars-Sinai in network. And so the next part of our work is making sure that we're getting fare rates again why because the goal is to not use scare city subsidy to subsidize insurance plants the goal is to use the subsidy to provide quality care. So the other big lesson. I learned you know, what the you have to remember that I agreed to take this job after being told that there was a one point eight billion dollar deficit on a seven point five billion dollars days on and I still agreed to leave sunny, California, where it's always seventy five degrees in Los Angeles to come here. Harder. Part of why? We've fixed that is recognizing that we were that a lot of that whole wasn't the care of low income uninsured people. It was subsidizing Durance plant. So we are fixing that another lodge part which the mayor's initiative is going to help us to fix his. I also assume coming from California on that all of the people who we call uninsured were uninsurable. So health and hospital sucks about the six hundred thousand people it takes care of who are uninsured in New York that turns out half of those people can be insured. They're eligible either onto the exchange or under Medicaid. So those people should be in roll, it would be better for them and better for the system and ironically, health and hospitals was so. So would in terms of how it approached uninsured people that nobody saw reason to get insurance? Right. You can imagine. How this went right? We take care of everybody regardless of insurance. All you have to pay ten dollars while person we thinks well, I'd have to pay ten dollars. Anyway, as Kobe, even if I had insurance rights is no incentive. Nobody sees why. There would be a need for insurance. But insurance comes to the law subsidy. So the next part of our effort is making sure that everybody who is insured owes insurable actually gets insurance again, it's sort of interesting. The local dynamics the city in public health department did actually a very good job of getting people in the community in short people who because they were able to say, you know, you're not getting care if you get insurance you'll be able to get care for the people weren't health. Hospitals. They were getting care, and they were happy with the care. They were getting so nobody realized but we're losing out on on that insurance. So being able to ensure that group of people then I've done a number of initiatives that any of you is smart business. People would do I looked at how much space do we actually need? I was able to decrease our footprint by about twenty five percents. Our we're going to move to a new building. We will no longer need a van to shuttle people around for a savings of about fifty million dollars. We did a large number of administrative decreases is never a happy moment to after lay people off. But my feeling is the money has to go to patients has to provide quality care of his no point in being in this business. And so what I wanted that money for was nurses. And so we decrease our administrative staff, and we increase on the number of, nurses physicians that work in our system because to me what always matters what your permission. What are you getting up to do? I spend most of my time as an administrator, but I'll tell you if I had to have a health system, either that only had doctors, nurses, or only had administrators I go with the only doctors, nurses. Right. So given that it seems like what I need to do is to put our money into that. We found lots of examples where we had you look to contracts the same thing. I guess that's what makes them duplicative the and so once we recognize that we could go to a single contract yet. A better rate that's doing that now on pharmaceutical purchase. On device purchasing so that that will over time take care of our expenses. So we've been able in the fourteen months to push up the revenue in decrease the expenses. And I think overall is then enables us to really look at our service delivery system figure out what is the right model. I it's clearly needs to be more of a primary care model though. I've I've learned now that I'm back in my home that New York City is not a primary care place. You know, everybody has a doctor for the right nostril in docu-, the left nostril at seems to be a very New York thing. One of the one of the very first patients I saw in my own clinic here at gouverneur was a monolingual immigrants and when I asked. What it was the she needed. She said I need a referral to a thyroid specialists. I'm like people just here. No, somehow that a New York, we always go to the specialists, right? Nobody knows. So we're going to focus a lot on primary care because that's the one thing that consistently comes up in the studies providing higher level of care for less money. And then really think about what is the value of of public hospital system to me again, everything starts and ends with mission. The what is that we do that is different than what other hospitals do because in New York state where is emergency, Medicaid, and there's this proportionate share hospital dollars. All hospitals are getting paid for the uninsured. So it raises the question. So what is the value of a public system? One of the values that I see is we are much better at addressing people's social needs. And I don't mean like socializing cocktail, but socializing housing food transportation. Translation, child-care people who are in violent relationships people who've been traumatized that we have the cultural competency that allows us to take care of people in a very humane on meaningful way. And that that's not something that you can do everywhere every H and H hospital has a lawyer to help people with immigration issues, every health and hospitals site has somebody to enroll people into snap, which is the what people know as the food stamp that offense. I we just house fifty people through our health plan on metro. Plus, we're building at the back of kings county hospital supportive housing that will be four people who are stuck in the hospital simply because they're homeless that's a set of services that we can do better than anyone. And so the the health and hospitals that I imagine going forward, and I look forward to the help of this group, and all of you is a hospital system that provides quality care on that really focuses on the social determinants of health. That's fiscally solvent for the long haul. That's not that's not asking for every year different handout from the city, but is predictable. There are things that require city subsidy. There is no reimbursement for outpatient care for undocumented uninsured people that requires. Subsidy the mental health services health and hospital provide sixty percent of the behavioral health services of the entire city. Why is it that we do that? And the other hospitals keeps shrinking their mental health or folio. It's because you can't break even on mental health services. You can make margin on transplants. But you can't break even on mental health services. Doesn't matter. How efficient you run? It just not enough reimbursement from the state for those services. So we are the dominant provider, that's fine. From my point of view that's mission that fits well with addressing the social determinants of health, but that will require a predictable subsidies. That's what we should. We should be an organization with the city can say in a health and hospitals. We want you to take care of the people who are truly on insured who were not eligible those. Services for which there's no Medicaid, you want you to be the mental health provider because that's something you do. Well, and our city desperately needs. We recognize that requires a subsidy, though services of Matt we expect you Ron like other systems in generate your revenue expect you to be efficient with your resources and provide quality services to all. Ms planning high. Earlier you mentioned disproportionate share hospital payments. The government is planning to cut back on some of these payments. What do you think will be the negative impact? And how would you address it? Sure. So I already has been a cutback on disproportionate share hospital dollars. And that's part of what generated the deficit of health and hospitals because in the ACA the idea was instead of giving hospitals money the end of the year for the uninsured people. Let's give people insurance which is a concept. I believe in. I believe you should empower people, right? You shouldn't make the mask for charity care, and then reimburse the hospitals, give them insurance cards and let their money flow with them. So there was already a large cut now. Then there's a proposed one that's due. This fall. I believe it will not happen because it's such a large cliff and disproportionate share hospital. Is not just for hospitals like ours that are public hostile secretary of low income people a lot of other hospitals rely on it. And so hostile the hospital industry includes both sides of the aisle, a lot of hospital executives are going to be in a campaigning to congress to prevent it. This big cut has been pushed off twice. That's why it it's so big at this point lasting that is something we should watch is at the moment, if it were a dish cut all of the beginning of the cut would be health and hospitals, and that's because of how the New York state has distributed Stolice. So we need to continue to work with me. Ric state to be sure that I there's an equitable distribution of this or your hospital dollars the d the disproportionate. Proportionate supposed to mean, those hospitals that do a disproportionate share New York. Does it more like her Radha? So you know, you do this amount of a low income care. You get this amount of disproportionate share dollars. That's not really have the program is supposed to rot. It's supposed to be. If you do a small amount you cover that on your own because you have good payers. You do a large amount you get the dollar so many moving pieces. And you mention measures to raise revenues and to lower expenses. When all your plans are in place and taken them as far as you think who can then what is left in terms of an ongoing city subset. That's that's an excellent question. I many John to help me a little bit. The first was one point eight when I agreed to do the job when the disproportionate share hospital cut got pushed off it went to one point five. So then we've been working against one point five, and we have a five year plan that eliminates, but that doesn't answer the question John that at that point going forward approximately what is the size of the city subsidy. Thank you, Dr cats. Mike Copco Gosper health two questions, if you don't mind one discounts on this. We're seeing and reimbursement. Mix moved outpatient versus impatient of systems trying to generate revenues that way change pricing that way interested in what the cities of you on this payer mixes, or the extent it's just a management mix and then a separate question. But you mentioned a behavioral health mental health. If you kind of have some first principle design elements that you could imbued in our system. What would you do if you're looking ten twenty years out what kind of assist would you want to find? Sure. Well, let me start with the second one. Which is what kind of mental health system. Should we have the problem with the current mental health system from my point of view is that for people with serious mental illness, the people we most worry about the people we sometimes see on the subway or sitting on the bench that right now there is nothing in between acute hospitalization. Twenty four hour care. Locked up end an appointment with a case manager seven days later after the person leaves there's no sort of middle road. And I think for the people who have the most severe mental illness. What they need is a progression of levels of care. And that right now system drops off to precipitously because our system is all based on the either you UK. Be held against your will. Or you can't be held against your will can be held against your will in you're in the hospital. If you can't be held against your will, good luck to you. Here's your appointment with your case manager, and that's just not a workable model for very severe mental illness and the other thing I think we do wrong in the field. And that's only this is that this is a group of people for whom relationships are the central issues. Right. I mean, they're often have difficulty forming relationships don't have strong relationships with France and families. So what do we do? We see them intensely in the hospital, then we discharge them. They'll never see any of the people they saw in the hospital again. I mean, they might if they wind up back in the same hospital, and they happened to catch the same t. But right. Wouldn't you think that a mental health system for severely mentally ill? People would all be based on continuity that. You would have a single team that would follow you through all levels of their. So what I'd like to see? And we're we're working on on the basic parts of this is that we have levels of care that are more intense than a case manager, but not acute locked up, and that we're able to work with people toward recovery with single teams that follow them in other states have done this. So it's it's not it's not magical or even my idea of it. I think would make a difference. What I was thinking when you're talking about, you know, primary care and payment homework countries payments system in you, notice from dealing Oscar is so messed up there is so many perverse incentives since strange things like, for example, if you admit today a patient to a hospital and the insurance. Denies the hospitalization because the person doesn't need to be in the hospital. The hospital will still earn the G M E payments for that hospital and for some hospitals with large Medicare population that will still be a good rate. So, you know, he so here, you know, you have terrible outpatient reimbursement. And then you get paid even when the person does need to be at the hospital, even I should say in when everybody agrees the person doesn't need to spill. So my view on service delivery is that we while. I want a Bill affectively I don't want to build my system based on what's going to give me the greatest dollar. And it's it's not even so easy sometimes to figure out because for example, in general outpatient reimbursement is very low compared to hospital, but will increasingly our contracts risk-based. So if I did more outpatient visits and kept people out of the hospital. Allied, actually too. Well. But of course, they're not all risks. Right. Only some. So that's why I've decided you know, that we should do the right thing. An overall for our country more primary care less hospital is the right thing both of care point of view, and from financial point of view. So that's going to focus. I have a couple of district questions for you one is when the funds in you, what what is what is going to happen to the services that you have designed and developed around one city health, and Secondly, have you seen any impact either in the integration of behavioral and physical or workforce development out of the money from district. That's been spent in the system, you know, Stephen, I think district is still a little bit open in terms of the verdict on how well it's worked. I I think that's likely to be a two year, no cost extension. His all the money has not been spent. I think that the things that work are gonna get inst-. Tissue allies. So I think there's been some good work around Cam management been good work about getting patients, the appropriate referrals for housing or food of the other things that they need we've done one of our recent successes, which we did on disrupt money was to create a fast-track clinics in our emergency room because the recognition that well if people have gone to the emergency room for generations. And that's how they've seen their care. It's very unlikely that they're going to start going to primary care off. So give them a transitional object. So we create a clinic that is right next to the EJ to you arrive at the day and the triage nurse says we're happy to see you in the deep, but you know, by the way way times are much less. If you just go over there to express care, assuming the person has that kind of. In a problem that is so severe that requires the EJ. I'm what has happened is that we've been able to dramatically decrease way talks and people getting the appropriate services that they need and not not more extreme services that they really don't meet and with staffing, those express care with primary care doctors who are then want to pull them those patients and say, you know, you don't have to come here to see me, you could have a regular appointment that my clinic at mar Sania or at who near. So that was disrupt. You know, it's such a complicated program in it has like fifty different things. I think all we can hope is that the successes get institutionalized in the things that didn't work, and that's okay. Not everything works. You know goes by the wayside. Muzzy Rosenblatt B R C were housing and social services provider working with about ten thousand and fifteen thousand homeless individuals a year, I just came back from LA and San Francisco where you are legend. And I'm thrilled that you are here. And so we'll thank you, hopefully in so you talked a little bit about homelessness and behavioral health, and and I agree entirely with the with the principals, you espoused, you created something in California. And I'm what they call the flexible housing subsidy program, very innovative. We're not doing anything really like that here. And I was wondering whether you could comment on the opportunities and challenges of creating some sort of program like that for New York or so, I'm very, I'm very pleased. So basically, the idea the flexible housing subsidy was will do whatever is necessary to get somebody house the common subsidies. And it was you know, the the brainchild four that was that. People in LA had subsidies, and they couldn't get housing. Right. So they would because what some people need is. They just need a little hell, right? Some people need a lot of help. Some people have kids. Some people have a caretaker so they need a two bedroom apartment. Right. So we said, okay. Well, we're not gonna fix amount. We're just gonna do. What's necessary the big difference between lay in New York, which is the challenge in figuring out whether you can implement it here is the housing market. So in LA, we were able to get one bedroom apartments for eight hundred dollars a month. And so and again, the beauty of the subsidy the program, we created was we guaranteed the landlords the money landlords were happy to rent to us. So we had none of the issues that people have with section eight housing, right? We would guarantee your. We got a group that was really sophisticated dealing with private landlords ends. I think it might time. We has four thousand seven hundred people in did beyond five thousand here. Right. The vacancy rate is miniscule in New York. And the other challenge is that there are currently in many of, you know, this is certainly you do seventy thousand people living today in shelter. Probably twenty thousand who needs supportive housing. So right. We didn't have that in LA people ready in a place, but a place that's not permanent. And so I'm still trying to wrap my mind around. Exactly how we do it. How I can be part of it out with people like you in how foil one thing we can do is the laughed. That's the easy one. Right. So, you know, again in LA because there was a private market that wasn't an important strategy here because I see there, you know, this is not enough housing. I think giving H and H land over to people who can do it. The promise you knows is still takes years, even if you have site control in the land because of the the work in supportive housing. So I'm still sort of. Looking in thinking about how how we do this that? Do you wanna say can do you want to say a little bit more? Sure. So what we've started to do is look at how we can recapture a current city expenditures on shelter which currently go to pay rent to private developers private landlords that if nonprofits like us and many others in the city were the developers and can be the developers and do we can Bill both shelter and housing and recapture. The prophet piece of what we would pay rent to a private landlord and use that as a cross subsidy for housing, we can combine that cross-subsidy with an eight hundred dollar a month investment from say a fifteen year commitment because the other part is if you do it annual appropriation you can't get financing for that that eight hundred dollars, plus the cross subsidy would be sufficient to have both transitional housing with the medical behavioral health specialty, which is what we do and the housing that people can move into. So I think if you look at the dollars from a different perspective and figure out how to recapture them you can accomplish that it does take time. Time which is why we should get started. I'm in I'm in for the eight hundred. I mean, I have a large number of patients. I have a large number of patients who if if eight hundred dollars because of the other things could house them, it would not only be a great humanitarian act to them. But it would save us money because if stuck in the hospital. Anx? He we have divide number of public hospitals for today's healthcare environment. Oh, that's a great question. I in it if you were to say the obvious if you were yielding new, right? You wouldn't feel the same eleven hospitals in the same place. Theon are no quest. The more complicated issue is. So what do you do when you have them? Right hospitals. Have you know, mythic hacked Ristic to Jim Unity's, and that's just not public hospitals, all hospitals. I I have tried to to help people to understand that we should not use the language in a derogatory fashion of half empty hospital, and I'll say a little bit more. Why that is you take a hospital like met metropolitan that is taking care of about one hundred and sixty. People about half of whom have serious behavioral health issues. It wouldn't help me if you took the top floors off net. Right. If I mean may basically as long as we turn off the lights don't staff in empty ward. The cost is pretty certainly not not the crying is no huge savings. Rum doing that if in as long as you good about not staffing empty bets. Right. If you're staffing empty bed, you of the different prop. So I've tried not to focus so much on the physical structures themselves. But instead on what's the right services each of them. So weans had a half empty rehab elmhurst set a half empty rehab graded one rehab down hearse. And then we took the empty war created more medical surgical beds, which the emergency room was needed. Harlem lows it's earn unit because the census is way too low people were going to or now which is nearby. Higher volume and they're fixed costs associated with maintaining burn. We probably have too many Hedy actor woods or the volume that some of them have. So I'm doing it more service by service and trying to figure out you know, what what the right services are to any of the buildings. And then also what else might I use building. All of that. So that each all the space is used that. I think that's a more helpful conversation in getting into bruising battle about closing hospital per say nice to see you again. You've been clear and eloquent about the mission. They're all of the hospital system. We also have voluntary hospitals. Unlike California, it's all voluntary or properties. Axon? What do you see is the mission enroll voluntary sector, you happy with what they're doing like them to leave you of some of the responsibilities. You have people with problems or you wanna take away business from them. What's your vision for the why don't wanna take away business from anyone might view? I've always wanted to jobs. Nobody else wanted. I always want to take care of people who need that care. Right. If if somebody's getting care, and they're happy with it. Not too much like a bomber with insurance. You know, they should continue. Right. I'm not trying to take anybody any patients away. I think since we were talking about. Behavioral house. I think that that that's an area. We are the the nonprofit sector really should do it become what not to offload me. But because they're taking care of people except for part of the body and a an unknown illness. And I think that that's wrong. I mean, my career is about taking great care of low income people. I want everybody to get good care. Right. I'm so, you know, I'm happy for there to be a public system. I the hopefully proficient in the care people with social needs. I'm happy for there to be a a nonprofit sector taking care of other people. But I I do does bother me the idea will, but we don't do mental health because I've always felt that that these issues are not separable Digal health mental health out. Our brain is all chemicals and synapses dislike GI track. As you look at all your fixed assets in the eleven buildings are you considering? And I know I've read some about micro, hospitals and other things that you're looking at to spread out the ability to care of for your. Your patients of and customers. So that's one question. And also h and h it's been a bit of a in and out for for senior leadership over the last couple of decades. If you stay for awhile, how are you addressing the cultural issues well in terms of micro clinics? In heaven hospitals has seven the outpatient Zeitz seems like an awful lot for a city outside with a reasonable public transport system. So I mean, I again, I am interested in the question of what is each hospital view in each hospitals should not be doing the same things. And once we get to a model where each hospital is doing the right things. I think it's easier to talk about all those assets us that. I mean in terms of me, you know, I'm Brooklyn boy, I came back to take care of my elderly, parents, they they in I assuming I the hardest thing I've ever done in my career for those of you were dealing with these issues is trying to get my ninety six year old father ninety one year old mother out of the house in isolated Rockland county that they live in with. They have no help sue a apartments in Tribeca tower. Move date is next Tuesday. So wish me lock I'm gonna live three Floyd with Mike kids three floors away from them. So I I'm here for the long haul. And I end I think that the, you know to me, the get health and hospitals. What do we do? We take care of people. And I think. That doctors nurses, have appreciated the idea that, you know, I'm not a leader who sort of interested in the wonky stuff. I'm interested in patients. I'm interested in clinics and the flow and somebody answer the telephone call. And you know, there's somebody you can call if you can't get a prescription. I think that overall that over time focusing people on not 'Eurocracy, but the care delivery will change the culture of. Thank you. And you mentioned that a metropolitan over half million members, and that's hymns possibly to have a vast potential benefit for health and hospitals. You talk about more about it. And what your hope would be over the next three to five years for that program. Sure. So the those of you who are not in insurance industry. One of the reasons you you want if your health and hospitals to have it in insurance plan is to help get the members to your services. Unfortunately, health metre-plus has historically seventy percent of the dollars have not gone to health and hospitals. It gone to outside providers, which I think is a tremendous loss of opportunity in raises. The question of why have a health plan? Right. I mean, what's the pert? What's what's the purpose of the health plan the that just sends everybody outside? So we've been we've been working and they've been working hard at getting basically figuring out. It's not. Their fault. Either patients were going elsewhere because they would call health and hospitals, and nobody would answer the telephone. But it's what we're fault or we don't do that kind of thing. You don't we don't do those kinds of referrals. So what we're trying to do is get the alignment, right? We're we're able to take care of those patients. So always be in metro plus a need for an outside network. For example, we have no hospitals in Staten Island. And that's great. But what I don't want is that people are going outside metre-plus simply because we don't answer the telephone. Right. That's not a good, and that's a loss opportunity. So you're gonna ask me at least one of your heart questions. I'll come on into. This is this is. Relationship. I labor has been phenomenal. And they should phenomenal because labor and I have the same goal, which is to grow a successful public system. The worst thing ab- lick unions is people to feel that the cares and good for the of the system is shrinking because it doesn't have enough money. And I'm not talking about shrinking things I'm talking about. How do we provide rates? I haven't had a single argument. Working. Bye.
293: Dr. Mitchell Mactier | SMYL Dentistry
"Welcome to episode two hundred and ninety. Three of the dental market or podcast. I'm your host. Michael s and in this episode. We're talking with. Dr mitchell mcteer from houston texas my hometown. Actually i'm like rosenberg's sure glenn area but anyways houston nonetheless and this episode. We are discussing many many things. He's not open yet He's building his brand use practice. It's a startup and houston heights area. And he's gonna be open in about three months from now from when this episode goes live so we discussed mentor ship. Who was his mentor. Why mentor ship is so important and guys. I've been watching chefs table Quite a bit recently. And i realized that notice that each of these chefs kind of were being mentored by someone right that they wanted to be and once they got mentor they decided to go their own path and be creative and things like that so anyways. Point of that is Leading you know mentor. Ship is huge. It's important if you can have if you are lucky enough to have a mentor in your life. Definitely learn as much as you possibly can from them so we discussed that and we also talked about how he held off a lot on the least negotiations. Why did he do that. He lets us know he lets us know where he is with the startup. He talks about what terms was wells. Fargo trying to have that. He didn't like so there was some terms yet to change it up So what was that. Maybe that might have happened to you. What can you do. If you're trying to change some terms up and especially you're trying to go with fargo. definitely listened to that part and he's pretty popping on instagram so definitely check that out. his instagram handle is going to be in the show below. He has a personal one and has one for his practice but he talks to us about how to build an instagram. Before opening and people were excited. I mean he even hired some of his team members from reaching out to him on social media. People are excited for him to open. It's so important for you to kind of build this up already before you're open so we discussed at an also surprising news awesome news. Great news is dr mitchell. Mcteer is the person we are going to be documenting on our podcast the making a dental startup. Podcast where we documented. Actually hold as we documented. paula pukhov. We documented Cassandra joseph so guys are next. Documentation is dr mitchell mcteer. And if you want to hear the promo it's going to be at the very end of the episode so definitely stick around after the episode to hear the promo but more details on that At the end of that so without further delay. Here is dr mitchell. Mcteer as a man is good. How how're you doing. I'm doing pretty good man. thanks for asking. I truly appreciate you coming on the show. I know you're super busy. You're in the middle of making a startup. that's correct right in the middle of it then how. Let's let's remind a little bit. Tell us a little bit about your past your present. Why'd you decide to start doing this. Like right now. Yeah it's kinda crazy story. So i've been i graduated from houston dental school Twenty eighteen and from that. I majorly got into private practice. gotta kind of mentor. Ship going And then other than that for about six months and then After that he kind of sent me to another location he's he owns three and I was all by myself. A couple years Kinda only doctor there. And that's kind of where it started. in a nutshell the beginning's kind of learned that i can really run a practice by myself With no help from them and so that's a why so competent to start up so early And then when kobe hit was kind of a a month of we didn't work a lot of houston and so realize time the plan and scheme and kind of seeing really. Where do we want to build a practice colleagues. Wanted to In houston so like home and so we decided to go for it and Started the startup in march of this year so march literally when it weighed. What march early march late march. We live right in kobe. Like end of march right. Let's start when that happened. Any doubt in your mind. Were you thinking like maybe we should hold it off a little bit more or not. We hold also a lot on the Allows are probably took around three to four months to gerald signed. Because we're like. Is this something we want to do. And we want to get the best rates. 'cause i know a lot of people aren't trying to go lease new cursed space so that took Took a little while to get going Yeah i mean. The biggest doubts i had his dentistry going to survive and are people are gonna want to come see the dentist and i noticed that my private practice. I was currently at was patient for more than willing to come in And get teeth cleaned. We kinda took some precautions. Typically temperature at a questionnaire dagger appointment so they more safe but our patient flow and hygiene didn't really subsided very much throughout the entire year kind of encouraging on my mind that Starting to scratch practice where you don't have any patients coming in. Yeah definitely so. I wanna rewind a little bit. You were talking about your mentor ship. Right talk to me about that like it just so happened that you stumbled upon them or like how. How far are you from graduate or you graduated win twenty eight so you've been practicing for two years right now right right. Yeah to tune us have to do. That's awesome and then you like jumping not really jumping in. So let's talk about that. Let's talk about the mentor ship. Then how did you come across them. Like what were some of the things that you learned big big time that you're like i'm gonna take this system into my practice. Yeah the biggest thing. I've learned so the guy worked for is a very successful business owner started three He is very good system. So the minute you walk through the door customer service you're greeted you're immature and seven minutes and it's very efficient so that's kind of the biggest thing coming from dental school into a private practice. Learning customer service needed to be the top priority And so i was. Kind of the culture we facilitated his practices and then he kind of taught me procedures and plans listen teeth and all that other stuff. Dental wise but in terms of running a business was Culture of customer service and just creating an environment where people feel welcome to come to the dentist and that's a really fun place to be. Yeah what kind of like. I know right now. You said like you wanna create an environment. That's some place to be but like as far as team culture. What are you hoping to have in my practice I really want people to feel like the bought into the practice of creating something that people can be invested in. And so what is that. Look like practically it's having everyone have ideas input little stake in the practice in terms of. Let's create something together. And i wanna your ideas are just as good as mine. In terms of marketing in terms of how it should run practice in terms of what we should do so must've dig team culture and creates a big family within practice and then people are gonna work together and grow together and share and the success of the practice. And that's something. I'm really big on. Yeah this really really big so then. According to year build out and everything like that. When do you plan open. We're projected to open the first week of april. Okay so like in. How's it feeling mandy. You feel like you've everything ready. Everything's moving along smoothly or whereas the hiccups at Yeah everything's pretty smooth. We're halfway done with our build We started the first. We could december A little back story where we're in a really cool location in a commercial space in the in the high and so the outside was all done and then so we're just building out the inside releasing Man biggest hiccups is like. There's so much stuff out there. He wanted the dentist. But really what is gonna make sense for startup practice and what's going to sit in your budget and so That's kind of my biggest back and forth now like technology. Bbc all the fancy those whistles or what's going to get me through the first year and then i can add more Services and more technology. Yeah that's that's that's the tough part right now. If you don't mind is asking what so you went with. Who for your your loan. My loan story. That was probably my biggest Thing that had to deal with. So i wanted to go with wells. Fargo and A little bit hasley into it started kind of feeling kinda sketch covid They were kinda like me agree to some terms or like pretty hard to to match in to get the financing wanted and so i went with the local houston or texting thing called frost And they have been super helpful in the whole process I mean they make some great but working with a small banker that Knows me and his right down. The street has really a big company actor. In this whole kind of coded bank financing bank of america kinda went back and forth a little bit of offering financing. so she what. Terms was was wells. Fargo giving you that. You didn't like it was just a. I associate salary how much i make per day they had i had to prove a certain amount and as an associate now i get paid on production and so it varies months and so some months ago. Some aren't so i couldn't prove that. Then i couldn't be approved for that financing. And then with the whole kobe coming down shutting down or down reopening back and forth that has been Is this wasn't a very comforting to me. So that's why. I reached out to a texas bank to say hey can all be comparable to what wells fargo inning. And they were pretty pretty similar interest rates and their financing. What we're can can i ask like what were the interest rates looking like at that time. i'm right around Three eight two four and so pretty low. I could've got lower maybe but Pretty comfortable with that and this and said okay. So then in total in total. How much was your belt. I have my doubt is around. Three hundred and forty thousand okay. Is that including like supplies and everything or now. It's including my total loans around six hundred thousand and then budgeted around forty four to build and then two hundred for technology and supplies plus or minus two forty thousand whatever. So yeah. who'd you guys go with with you. Go with for equipment. I went with Patterson or We had a rep that went to my practice known. Pretty well So we just had a good ship going in. So i feel comfortable using them For chairs i won't eight and Yeah gotcha gotcha. And that's pretty good. Did you have any like delays in the construction of the build out so far even with kobe there was nothing really major Nothing so far They sing with permanent but actually went pretty quickly See i had no hiccups in the build out so far. Gosh how'd you find a location. It was a space heights. That was an old kinda office building. One story complex and they're turning it into a really tricky cool marketplace with all the local boutiques shops a lot of local business. You can collide with So it's been a really fun Spacey it's called the m. k. T. and i'm super excited about it. That's awesome man. That sounds exciting. Like the this space and how big is like from what i recall i believe like the heights is Pretty pop place. You know what. I mean like in houston like you problem. That's awesome so then okay. So you've got to build out done. You've gotten all this stuff. What are right now are you. What are you doing for marketing and advertising. Biggest things is social media Instagram facebook I found a lot of success doing that in even hiring people through social media A good job. You'll get to know you and then you can kinda share. Your practice are good to sit So instagram is probably my biggest push right now just kind of colliding with all the local businesses around getting to know them Investing in their businesses. And then go return the every back to you. Yeah so that's nice man. I know a lot of people a lot of practice owners. I mean you've probably seen right like there's a lot of practice owners who want to start doing instagram. But like where do you start. You know what i mean like. Oh hey we're open but actually so how do you how do you do it. That's a good question. So i think dr instagram page. And then i had my separate practice one in the process of building that one right now Man it's just consistency creating content people wanna see. I've seen a lot of success with videos like this quick. Ten to fifteen second videos Where the world of social media's headed with tiktok in instagram real and all that stuff this quick ten second mike whitening this worldwide boom boom boom. Throw it out there and create a personality behind your grand It's something that i would advise a lot. And then just like a picture of a toothbrush. This as their practice on it Which is great filler content but just more of the videos and interactive content and then on stories posting polls posting questions getting people engaged in your practice or they feel bob into it the Social media yeah. Because i feel like like okay. You have Doctors do you recommend So the the practice owners right now. Listening de recommend that they have like a doctor's page and then a practice page Yes and no mine. Kind of worked out that i didn't have a practice so i had to create a separate dr page. Because i knew eventually. I wanted to build a practice and i wanted to have something to give validity to my practice through But if i was just starting out. And i had my own practice. Our just do a practice page and put your personality into it Create your content on there so therefore you wants to do two separate accounting this to focus all on one. Gotcha okay because i know a lot of people. Sometimes they're like all that's a lot of work and then you know that's when they go and hire like agencies but this sometimes i see like what those agencies do and it's like you know to talk to. I don't know everybody's doing like kind of like the same stuff. Sometimes you know. And then some yeah. It's hard to like how man this is such a good topic because it's hard to sometimes always put your face in front and do videos and then you run out and you're like okay. I don't feel like doing so. So the crappy molar in though i don't wanna go make a video just like forget the day and then you consistency dies so like yeah i think what. What do you think we should do. In that scenario I mean the biggest thing is you never create enough content. And so i think one thing i would in the past. I would try to do like like. I had to create a video today for today. But if you can create like if you're in the zone and creating pictures and creating content created as much as possible at one time and save it all and just have it ready. Have a few months worth of content this in your bags if you need to throw the post or Descended together you have it ready Aside like us is called later dot com. You can schedule your posts so you don't have to think about during the week can say post monday. Nine a m This is my my caption and then it goes on like. Oh i posted but the postage for me Because it can be tedious can be time consuming But with everyone on their phones now on the social media world is i think it's a really good market Big into show personality and then show great doesn't stuff at the same time. Yeah do you see yourself doing this like after your one of opening your practice still like as much as you an hour or less or having somebody else doing probably more. I really enjoy it to be honest but some some people party in front of a camera or they don't wanna do it So there are good agents out there. i don't know a lot about facebook ads so that's where i'm hiring someone big. Hey teach me about this. And then going from there so knowing their weaknesses and knowing what to do I've been kind of fun for me to to learn about man. That's awesome so then you plan to on the day you open or the day before you plan to announce like on your social media haywar open and people come in a couple of days before you have like a weightless or something for this. Start up my plane is like to do a month out. Really start our grand opening date But before he opened for business house like a two week almost soft opening where. We're just kinda getting out the kinks they bring in. Trimdon family went through a day and their practice of role playing handoffs from june to gun desk front desk. The patient and presenting treatment plans and so kind of those first two weeks really gonna kinks out and getting the practice culture going and then i being that this is our grand opening day. Come by we'll a couple of chico's out there Just making stuff. That's really fun in the in the community and given out maybe co two precious or free Cussing winding trays for the first hundred. People that come to. That's kind of a few things. I've done for marketing. That i think really fun when we open and then they start booking patients But we're probably looking this month for april. And so that's kind of my booking booking gotcha gotcha okay. And then how saturated would you say dentistry right. Now is in your area your community. We're pretty saturated around that It's pretty it's pretty competitive What i've learned a lot of dentists in my area they've even like helped me out with my startup. So we're all in it together and we all kind of know that 'cause a few other ones kind of roughly my age. Okay and me. Help me like we're just working together in this covert era and like this kind of build. Our practices together. 'cause saturated market is saturated. Because there's so many patients there that that Availability is cute. Yeah yeah that's good man. That's this isn't good. Mindset that you have right now like continue you know what i mean like to continue to have like as far as like abundance like do this going to be enough. Not only god. Everybody's my competition. You know within the are but i i really tried to instill in our staff or anything like that. 'cause that's monday. My mentor told me as i came in i. I built this place in the most saturated market. I could because. I know clients here and i just gotta do a really good job and the patients will come. That went to come to my practice and they'll go down the street. I really wanna go there. And we're all going to share in success together and build really fun practices. Yeah so so then right now your team you have a full team already or no i have me and my desk and a assistant flash Front desk so we start out with me and to others to start gotcha and you found them or they found you through social media to or no i saw one of them through social media and then the other one Worked at a previous practice. I was at and she'll be coming on and that's so like he didn't even have to or did you put out something for indeed or no. I haven't done any of that man. That's good that means like your social media like you know what i mean like pretty cool like as far as people wanna follow it and and reach out. This is fun. Yeah they kind of know the practice personality so oh this looks like a fun place to work That's what i've really tried to create that authentic and genuine So yeah this come in and so right now. Throughout this whole process from the moment you decided right like let's do this startup Right now today What would you say has been one of your biggest struggles failure pitfalls Do they see I think the hardest thing to be honest is working at a practice while starting another practice. And so 'cause in a startup meetings you have to be at. You have samples. You have to see you need to go meet with your equipment reps and then at the same time you're trying to sell make a paycheck from your associated ship to pay for like rent and everything like that that's going on and then you have all these expenses coming in That you have to pay for for the new practice. So that's kinda dig the biggest challenge for me Being a full time practicing dentist five days a week at my practice and then in that starting a new one This is mentally exhausting I'm starting to transition out of that. As we get closer to opening the start up but That's pretty difficult to be honest and So yeah why. Why do you say it's been difficult like to leave. You're like you're still working for your mentor or no yes. I'm still working for his practice. But like when you start a new new one This is constant day in and day out stuff need to work on. So you're still seeing a full force of the patients all day during treatment. And then if you don't get the the startup done stuff during the day you do it at night after you're done so this is very very time consuming. I would say not like mentally difficult. But i just it just takes more time when you get home from work and you're tired from the day so yeah definitely you. Do you plan to opening day. Do you still plan to work a couple of days as an associate for your mentor or not Yeah so i'll work about. Maybe every two weeks just to get things going but i really want to jump in heavy with new practice is to be as available as possible for new patients to come in and 'cause we're kinda and when those areas that people are kind of driving by so we're open that means you're open to see patients. Yeah definitely okay. So then did you. How how far is your practice. You're working for now and your your practice for it is About thirty minutes okay. So there was no need to sign. Non compete or anything like that right now okay. That's cool man. That's pretty pretty close by so throughout this time. What's been some of the best companies you worked with. And some of the worst companies you've had to work with let's see some doing scheduling with a company called next health And they've been really great to work with. I signed up with them they do online scheduling kind of the whole package patient. Forms basic communication Not broadcasted too much on the facebook groups but Just the conversations. I had with them via the phone. There's innovative company. You really want to take care of the people and some of the practices that i really liked around the country. We're using them So i went with them for kind of my online scheduling package One thing i didn't want was too many systems too many You get more. Genteel you get mango. You get all these other ones and you get a pet and you're like i have so many systems and has just If is you don't know what's the best and size wanted something that was simple and in work to al 'cause another big challenge. I didn't talk about was taking systems in the madness of all these third party companies. That are out there saying fast you know. Yeah and they're all great and they all they all give a great service so that was like a month's worth like. Oh my gosh probably not gonna take. Yeah there's a ton of about there. I think we did an episode with a matisse and he on the episode he was deciding like what we should. We should pick it. It's hard man. It's hard because of the budget. It's hard because you wanna do. You don't want everything so you mainly went with next health because you were just you. You've been talking to them. Or i think i had a conference call with them kind of said. Let me see what you can do. 'cause i know i'm using open dental as my software I know they have flex and sykes book. And i don't think it has online scheduling affects book is online scheduling separate fee. And so it's like those gager adding up and then next health was pretty comparable and so as chose one. But i think they're both great. I have friends that are using Flex sex book And they had great things to say and so yeah definitely. If you don't mind me asking how much is xl I got i got in the very end of q. Three and i've seen guy paid three thousand for a year and serve. That's around two fifty a month But i think. I kind of got a good deal with that Things like almost half price of what usually is okay. Let's gonna know awesome. So then i don't know if allowed to share that though. Gotcha gotcha okay. So we'll put it out. We'll put it out there. But if i m pretty sure next. I think i've talked with here and there and they're pretty cool. I've never had any. You know what i mean. I any issues but last question mitchell last question. Because i know you're busy renou. You're picking up a painting. You said it right. Yeah we really like our and so we're gonna make the practice really fun style artworks from like local artists all around. That's gonna be awesome. I'm excited to see that. But before that. I wanted to ask you There was all of this affecting your personal life. Like i said it's a lot to do when you get home from work I'm married so my wife is and and the grind with me But to be honest. Like the very beginning when i was Starting the practice wondering should we even do this Is this even something that like. We should start in the middle of kobe when the world setting down The beginning was harder now. Once you've kind of starting to take leg newsy you build every day you see a practice at fight really inspiring encouraging For me man. This is going to be something that it's been my dream ever since i went to dental school So to be honest in my personal life have elevated it to like motivating me man. This is going to be something that is this gonna to really fun. We'll get to love the community very well to dentistry and Get to certain people and Just be out there and so now. I'm like really excited to get up and running and yeah as awesome. That's good that's a good. You've really puzzling. I think my wife is more my wife just more excited than i am sick. I can't wait for small to open. Let's go so because our our practice called smile. Smil sensor smile more new life and so we want. He was small walking through the doors. This finding joy again through. Kobe bid 'cause it's been a hard year for everybody like this. It's like find find a reason to smile today. And that's why we named it small. Yeah i think. I saw something somewhere where it says like be that smell in the world. Don't let this world breakdown your small or something. That s pretty cool man. Yeah go what you wanna do. How'd you come up with that really quick small small more in your life you just it came to your We're actually at a concert. And there's this artist named tim o. Sm yo anyway. That's a cool way to just for simple And so it's like kinda put some routes in like you could smell smile with a wide. Smil and then. I said it's my brother. And he was like the that interest. Smile on your life. And i was like. Oh you're so right team team and then we worked with the design companies kind of get older our logo get really clean and So yeah that was a fun part. That's who who is the design company you are with you went with My biggest advice would be. We want with ninety nine designs And they're pretty cheap compared to like big zion agencies and we probably got thousands of design concept from ours all over and we've got to change You get finalists and finalists. Goes down to a four different ones and you can send it to all your friends and they can take one and you find is on the logo. There wasn't they're expensive. I think it was like two ninety nine and when we got so many different. Redux like whoa. We're that one comes around. Oh we really like this one. let's Let's let's pursue this more. This artist kind of has their style. But that's really cool part so creating a logo because you seen so many variations and then you can kind of narrow down which really love and what. Sister practice style. Yeah that's awesome man mitchell man. I appreciate your time. Thank you so much for being with us. It was a pleasure but before we say goodbye. Can you tell our listeners where they can find you. Yeah i'm on instagram. At dr the are tiered and they see. Ti art and my practices s. m. y. l. underscore dentistry something guys. That's all going to be in the show notes below so definitely reach out to mitchell. Mitch thank you so much for being with us was a pleasure. We'll hear from you. Our brother thank you. Thank you guys so much for tuning into that episode and mitchell man. Thank you so much for being a part of this podcast and this episode truly appreciate it. I am super excited to dive in so much deeper into your life and your practice in the process of how your whole journeys coming along in the making of a dental startup. a podcast guys. Going to put a link to that in the show notes below and here is the promo for the making of smile. Hey man. I am so excited. Welcome to the making of smile s. m. y. l. Join dr mitchell mcteer's journey as we document his startup week by week in real time. Hey everybody my name. Is mitchell mcteer number. Dennis here in houston texas and i am starting. My very own. Dental practice has been a dream of mine. Ever since i got into dentistry. And i'm excited to share this journey with you. All the other stresses that go into as well as all of the joyful moments that you have along the way. I got into dentistry. Because i had a accident in high school where i fell wake boarding in a knocked out my front teeth and i chipped on the bottom ones and i felt really bad about my smile and then i had make overdone and it kind of my outlook on life and so that is why i got industry and then from there. I've always wanted to start a business voice from the start. A practice of my own can have full autonomy tree patients exactly like i. I want to end mc side to share this story with you smile dentistry. Dance for smile more in your life. That has vision and our goal with the practices. It's been a tough year with kobe. We wanna bring joy back into dentistry. Enjoy back into people's lives by helping them and so that is the heartbeat of our practice. And that is our vision. What we want to create out of dentistry because dentistry has the ability to change so many lives. Mitchell is scheduled to open in about three months. Yeah i want to be transparent with the process and kinda tell you from beginning to end. What's going on week by week. So i hope it helps anyone out there. That is planning on doing their own. Start up or wants to create a business of their own and It's been one of my biggest joys in life so far to start. This practice has also been very stressful at times. And i love to bring you in on the journey and keep you updated so here. All the ins and outs and what it takes to make his practice. This is the making of smiles dentistry. Awesome excited like i said guys going to show notes below Feel free to follow his journey. Check it out. Listen to the podcast. Listen to his journey week by week and engage with us. Interact on that. Set of the podcast. So thank you guys so much for tuning in and i will talk to you in the next episode a.
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"Advise merge so. So you'll viewed zeiss to scoot will still seen is as musical yoshiki the agenda two tujia pylova chevik represented kicking assad with the v very. I'm when you just sit up. Who's this marks was symptom cinergy that you'll volpe michio see. That was basha yard. Gender two digit thousand so civil lack who so-called that boy suite keep fag end may is adult loach symptoms signs going is also they will stocks give stock stockcar. Guate- who could you see. It said mice mosquito motive osama potential. Simple multi vodka multi-valve. What you bring you. Jia was at the pentagon what something thought was to take that plane their view. The views but outcomes. I'm whatever so much you you. While west accepted while while scissor specifically ilan luca sip body critic do solo some critic. David said a companion de matsushita's though. But i don't do more towards those philosophers stories. Do face did it with a view. Size allegorically toco hill. A poor third in total sync tubes. You bonk mark levin so-so this was in cup byers's represent thelma could each year prison. Who musae the procedure. But miller who muscle cell saintly gathered here fuzzy muckleshootcasino pickup each cappella. Each guy lavar. Zip no mundi hiccup last critic as komo's allows us some ways if it's universe charakata. The particle sharma buckle. He called seaview several sick savvier critics whose years coburn wing former salyers apathy. More samir's mma samir's move the yucky. We'll see feis upload the interest pretty because he's visit global bloomberg hick dog in creek chica coach in quantative sali's the we will this creature a pitch. Get you mastery. Hey dr mitchell. Assemble mob is also very little. Vague are similar but air. Something sound like a lot of independent became future girl. Who says episode helmet. Bob book on little sufficing lbj to sylvia lucas buffer. Dilma also thought you could go to the glass in tho- gone doggy. Colleague bob loopier sassou pinks samir's the incorporates. Both oklahoma vivian. Vassos this no this is over sabotage omani on. Kp ewbal no failures your thoughts ideas. I'll give the set you me as it so he did. Not the the santa. Keep facade. This year miso grungy study phillies jia novel.
The Three Jewels
"Jay Forest and you're listening to five minute Dharma. Five Minute. Dharma is a weekly podcast. Giving you practical Buddhist wisdom for everyday life episode to the three jewels but three jewels are the three treasures of Buddhism. They are the Buddha the Dharma and the saga. They're the most sacred things in Buddhism. What are the three jewels? And what does it mean to take refuge in them? The first jewel is the Buddha jewel and the Tara Vodka tradition. The Buddha refers both to the historical Buddha and to the idea of awakening itself the title Buddha literally means the awakened want so we aspire to be like the Buddha by becoming fully awakened? The Buddhist name was said Darth. Goethe he was a great teacher in India about one thousand five hundred years ago he is our ultimate teacher and spiritual example. The boot is example is a treasurer of how to be ethical loving wise and enlightened by following the example of the Buddha. We can act speak and think skillfully in any situation. We can ask ourselves. What would the Buddha do? His example can help guide US delivering more compassionately and wisely in the world. The second jewel is the Dr Mitchell. The Dharma or Dhamma in Pali refers to the Buddhist Teaching Dharma can refer to the teens in the physical form of the Canon or it can refer to the doctrinal content Buddhism for Terra. Cotta Buddhists the Pali Canon is the Dharma it is the oldest Buddhist scriptures and can be traced back to the historical Buddha. Himself is the Dharma that gives us the four noble truths the Eightfold Noble Path and the three marks of existence. These are the core teachings of Buddhism and are a light on our path through life giving us insight into the true nature of reality. The third jewel is the Sanga jewel originally the term saga referred only to Buddhist monks and nuns. But that has changed after. I did my going for refuge with. Bhikkhu some heater he welcomed me into the Songa so the saga refers to the whole Buddhist community. The Sangha is a jewel because it is composed of the most excellent of friends who are also on the path of awakening. Great respect is paid to monks and nuns who are living examples of the noble path. Many have great insights that can help lay people with their own journey. When I think of the Saga I think of the Great Meditation Masters who have been kind enough to teach and empower us lay men and women. In pursuing the eightfold path going for refuge taking the five precepts and going for refuge is how one becomes a Buddhist as the Dalai Lama explains all Buddhist traditions. Agree the taking refuge in the three jewels is the demarcation of becoming a Buddhist. But what does it mean to call the Buddha? The Dharma and the Sangha refuge refuge defined as a place where you were sheltered or protected from danger or distress the Buddha's example protects us from unskillful actions and speech the Dahmer Texas from wrong pounds and self deception and the saga can help us stay on track and encourage us in our daily practice. We need the three refuges talpet. Avoid the dangers and pitfalls on the spiritual path. We begin our journey with trust in the Buddha his teachings and the Buddhist community but as we walk the path. The teachings are confirmed by personal experience. Trust turns into knowledge and knowledge turns into wisdom if it is used rightly the way of truth turns into the way of inner knowledge in conclusion. The three most sacred things in Buddhism are the Buddha the Dharma and the Sangha they are safe haven in times of stress turmoil and confusion there refuge as we walked eightfold noble path to liberation from suffering. That concludes mytalk. Thank you for your attention. You've been listening to five minute. Dharma five minute Dharma a weekly podcast giving you practice Buddhist wisdom for Everyday Life. You can subscribe to the podcast at five minute. Dharma DOT COM till next. Time may the Buddha's wisdom guide you on the path of awakening?
I don't feel like it! I don't want to!
"Hello. It's Friday January, the eighth twenty sixteen. and. This is typical back with another I procrastinate podcast. I. Suppose. This will become a big surprise for many of you thought longtime listeners in particular because friends of mine been asking are you not doing your podcast anymore I haven't heard in new podcasts. In because one of my neighbors talked me about it I think it was with my neighbor I said, well, it's because I have nothing else to say. And it's the truth in some respects There's always more to be said I suppose but. You know I've done this podcast now for five or six years and I've said a lot and. I've covered a lot of ground in the interviews with other people and reviewing research. So there's really not a lot more new things to say and and that. So I've been really tentative about getting back on the air because podcast themselves can be just a huge time. Suck. You know just like any of the social media can be that They're great in the sense that they keep us connected with other people but then you can find yourself spending way too much time there and to be honest, I don't want to contribute to that I think that. One of the problems that the media's always had in general, and in this case, I'm not talking just about social media that you and I might use. But the professional media is that they're always filling time and so because of that. And, then there's so much time to fill and so much bandwidth and so many avenues. There's just a lot of stuff out there and we end up amusing ourselves to death. So a little bit of a rant I suppose or soapbox. To say that I haven't been around because I really haven't had much to say but I I do have something I want to talk about today that I think is rather important. It's not specifically based on one study, but it's based on reflections around the notion of motivation and procrastination, and that's why entitled this. Episode I don't feel like it. So I wanNA talk today about. What does it mean to say we don't feel like doing something and reflect on that and and motivation relationship procrastination and in doing that all talk a little bit about things like Desi and Ryan self determination theory and autonomous motivation. So certainly, some basic social science in there. But at the same time I'm going to speak more generally. About, the kind of internal struggles we feel around motivation. So that's where I'm going but I wanted to start with some feedback from listeners. I've had lots of emails much as had comments from friends and colleagues have said, have you stopped doing your podcast and? I wanted to share one of these today I'm going to share it anonymously. As I read it I'm going to comment on it because I think it's rich in terms of the. Comments that are shared and I wish I could just react all of them. The emails I received this way I replied many of them if not most. But, not all. Dear Dr Mitchell. After two years of meaning to write this email here I finally am how many times have you read that well, yet not surprising read at a fair bit but you know I'm not too sure we should beat ourselves up too much for something like that because that gets to this whole notion of whether we've made a firm intention do something or whether it's just. kind of a desire and something I think I might want to do so you you might think, oh, I'd really like to get in touch with DOC pitch. I'd a good idea but it doesn't mean that when you don't do it, you're procrastinating so I think it's really important distinction that all sorts of things you can think about in a day that I should. Do this should do that ought to do this and it'd be great if I did that and then if you don't do them, it doesn't mean you're a procrastinator It only becomes a procrastination issue when you have this very specific intention and you've set up a specific time because you have negative consequences if you don't and there's nothing standing in the way but. You still don't do it and so here with this writer I'd say, well, yeah, that lingered on the back on the back burner as an intention my goodness I wouldn't beat myself up for taking two years, but you'd be proud that you actually did it. That's that's the great thing. I really appreciate deeply hearing from listeners and I really like this email in particular. You have kept me sane for the past years of I've struggled with increasing procrastination problems including a bout of depression. While, that just rolled over me because many of us have dealt with belts have depression and that's tough and as you've heard me comment before if you're longtime listener that when we get into issues of depression and mental health again I, don't think we need to wear the hair shirt as the religious might say coming from nasty tradition of you know beating oneself up punishing oneself by then also saying I'm such a procrastinator in fact, both in the research that most in been talked about in the one of the most recent podcast, we put out last fall on types of delay and also the philosophy of Mueller Mealy at the Florida. State. University. Would argue that you know it's only the non-depressed agent to procrastinate. So when we get depressed, we're going to have a motivation which bumps into some of the topic today. And we're not going to do things. So yeah, I really want this person. If you're listening to understand that in this first paragraph, you said two really interesting things that reflect a really strong criticism self and you're not alone in that right? We we all do. We really have some very we can be on our own worst critic they're very strong negative opinions about self sometime. He might have been meaning to write the email for two years but. Unlike many other people who haven't you did so Gr- Bronco and I'm really pleased that anything that I've done with these podcasts has been important to you and yeah depression sucks. Am Glad that it was a bout of depression in that perhaps it doesn't continue now but if it does I'm with you in spirit and I hope you find a way through it. Back to the email. I was very happy to track down your website and especially your podcasts as a scientist I appreciate the depth of research that underlies all your podcasts instead of the unrealistic quote thirty days to perfect productivity and quote sites books that are out there. I. Also appreciate the truthful and very personable way that you remind us all that there are no quick fixes for solving procrastination problems but that it is possible. And that's the end of the second paragraph. Yeah. I'm glad that and this is one of the reasons I'm. Isn't that interesting. The Way we talk all incomplete sentences. I'm really glad that you identified yourself as a scientist, and this is one of the reasons that I wanted to read this email. Because I think it's very important to establish your knowledge claims on some something more than just one's opinion At some point, it always does become opinion because the only time you can prove something is in math because you really just have evidence for a perspective many of you will be firm familiar with the notion from the philosophy of Science, for a paradigm shift that you can think you've got the truth in your hand, and then you really have to just have some other data that completely shift your perception of the phenomenon and will you go that's not how it's working at all. So yeah, you you. It is opinion at some level because it's are the most likely story right now. But at least it is based on science and that's really important to me and I'm glad you commented on that because I do a lot of other things and I just shake my head around here people talking about stuff and I go. Where does that come from on what basis? Would you even hold that opinion and that's what knowledgeable thinking about So I appreciate that feedback it means a lot to me. It doesn't mean everything I say is truthful and I mean that in the profoundest sense that. I might not be unaware I could be unaware of where my. Thoughts fall short but in that sense, this is always we say science is a self corrective process and I read the literature do research and I would come back and admit to when. I really wasn't thinking as clearly as I might. And the second part of that paragraph is, yeah. There aren't any quick fixes. I've done a lot of writing in the fall over my. On my sabbatical and I've written a little short pieces for media where they've asked me how long does it take to change a habit? We've heard it takes thirty days and I just shake my head I. think it could take the rest of your life if if it's taken most of your life to establish a habit like that's what Robertson Davies, the Canadian author would say brandon the bone. It's really deep in your bones and you're going to have to lay on top of that some other habit what psychologists like to call pre potent responses that these are the things that you do without thinking before that other habit will not be the go-to response and honestly that can take a lifetime. But yeah, says, he end his paragraph it's possible and just because it might take a lifetime doesn't mean it's not worth it. What is what our lives if not? Becoming the person that we want to be that we strive to be. All. Right next paragraph only. Two more paragraphs, but the next one is the longest. Whenever I find myself struggling with procrastination. To the point where I'm really feeling very down. I. Turned to one of Your podcast to get me back on track yesterday and again, this morning I listened to your November tenth two, thousand, nine podcast because and picked. I picked it because of the title. What a fantastic summary of why we procrastinate and how to combat it. I'm now surrounded with thirteen sticky notes containing reminders, mantras of your top tips I have your audio book in many of the others you have recommended over the years, but the twenty minute section on this podcast covers all the main point so well, and has at least finally got me to write this email once more I have renewed focus on. How to move forward that's fantastic and that's one of the reasons I wanted to read this email as well that here listener identified something out of all of those podcasts that really seemed to be sustained and that was November tenth two, thousand and nine. So if you're a new listener, perhaps this is the first time listen to the podcast. You Might WanNa, just flip back through there's one hundred plus podcasts in there. And that's interesting too. Is. An aside but I listen to lots of other podcasts to and people. Almost have a celebration when they hit their hundredth episode or whatever, and you know that's never been my goal I I don't try to monetize this. My goal has been I guess because I'm an educator s to share the things I'm learning. When I was a boy, I was very fascinated with science might not surprise your was. Yeah, that's long. Story that maybe you don't want to hear but. I was fascinated with science ingred nine I read the whole text book the first week it was given to me and there wasn't a question I couldn't answer it seemed and yet it wasn't the socially acceptable thing to do. So I quickly moved away from that and stayed with sports and hanging with my buddies and really to the detriment intellectual development in some ways, but it's what I chose to do at that time. But when I was a young lad and learning all these things, I was just hooked on science and get excited until my dad. I learned this and say, well, it's great that you learn. Now, what can you do with it? The first time he said that tomorrow's quite annoyed I thought well, isn't that enough but no, you know you you anything you learn you want to. Should make a difference to you somehow and typically next difference in the way we see the world how we act in the world. Well, we're becoming. But also, for me I, guess it's been deepened my bones for a long time this notion of education. I. I trained to be a tennis teacher and that's where I realized that I really liked to teach and I got great joy of learning and teaching just the sharing of learning and I think that's something. So important that I watch teachers understand especially in the university environment. New Faculty moving from. It's not about me. It's about them and it's about the learning and that happened to me very early I can remember because I taught countless hours on tennis courts realizing that's us all about the student like it's not about what I know or how I can hit the ball. It's about how they spend the next half hour hour with me and what they can do. So that's what's driven me in this podcast was driven me to come back today even though I started by saying, I, didn't have much more to say of course you might laugh at this point so you could talk forever I could but it doesn't mean I have a lot more to say. And that's why I I want to highlight something from this paragraph, which is the number ten, th two, thousand nine. PODCAST that made a difference to a listener because it was concise. It captured some of the main mantras. Now, this writer wrote, I'm surrounded with thirteen sticky notes containing reminders in Mantras, and when I wrote back to this writer I said, I, have the same I. I keep stuff around the all the time to keep me on track because nothing's perfect. If you've been a longtime listener, you know that I've or read my book or The blog the blog is where I do. I've been keeping the blog up a bit more. Because I'm reading research and summarizing it they're in a different way. But if you have read my research or listen to the audio book or Read My book, You know that implementation intentions is a very powerful notion coming from Peter Goal what's work and I think it has a lot to offer us as we struggle with change but it's not perfect either and Peter acknowledged that in his own research commitment has to be there. and. So does prospective memory in other words you have to remember, for example, the other day. My Wife said to me you know Alex. Our son has a little bit of extra just at the corner of his nose. and. It would be important to get some cream on it, and because I'm Mr Mom at home all the time right now particularly because I'm on Sabbatical I said I'll do. And I thought I'll make an implementation intention when we finish reading the story at night or when I get the book out to read the story I will get the green and put it on his nose because a good time of day to put it on and he's GonNa Sleep with an on. Then I completely forgot about it like I got the book out and we just did our thing. Now that's not a great time of day for me how pretty tired by the end of the day and so I completely forgot about it and my wife almost mock me a little bit and said that she made an implementation attention as if that was supposed to be a magic. So. These mantras and physical things in our environment to help us remember what it is. We're trying to help our perspective memory and I'm big on that. Too. I. Stick to the Mantras like I wrote about them because they're just so basic we all have to have these goto things become back to that. Keep it simple because most things are really simple, it's doing them. That's hard. Okay. So the last paragraph here. So an enormous thank you Dr Mitchell you've been my counselor for the last eight years and I'm sure you have helped thousands of others at the same time to give so much of your time giving us hope through practical advice while sharing your stories family dogs escaping horses. Tough Times is an incredibly selfless thing to do. You're an inspiration to us all I wish you and your family, a wonderful twenty sixteen warmest regards. I just want to say thank you that last paragraph means a lot to me personally because I have had some very negative feedback about my stories and my rambling. Yeah, because not everybody likes that they just want the goods right tell me what you you know but knowing is personal and you can't separate it from being in the world and if you think you can. Well I challenged I'd love to sit down and talk to you about. How we come to know things and how we embody that knowledge and that sorta stuff. But I appreciate that you understand that this is done in the context of my whole life. Even. As a small example of that. I had written in my day timer that I would do this podcast this. and. I'm pretty big on sticking to my plans. You know if you've been listening to this. But then I looked at the weather forecast, and now if you've been listening if you're listening to this two years from now, it's not going to be in the same. So I'll give it some context. We got a late snow here in Ottawa. We finally have some decent cross country ski conditions and yet on the weekend here it's GonNa go up to plus five. Celsius and it's going to rain and it's going to ruin our trail. So I said to myself no. You have to act on this first. You'd better go skiing this morning, do the podcast in the afternoon. So this is an intention update the bat abandoned my intention, but I had to change my priorities an intention update purposeful delay, not procrastination. All these things are so important enough these are new to you than the podcast of this offer. But. If, you're listening, you know who wrote this thanks so much I appreciate your warmth and your generosity taking time to write to me, and I really appreciate the kind words. I can only hope the podcast of been is helpful to others as you think they might have been. All right. Well went speaking of Mantras my biggest, and if you're one of my kids, you know this for sure that it's not easy to be. The son or daughter of Dr, procrastination as we joke. Because oftentimes my kids will say what we all do, but kids see more. at least they say law more I don't feel like. I don't want to. And that's a fascinating thing that not feeling like you're not wanting to as as a reason. Now this is a profoundly important point philosophically in the sense that well, of course, not feel like it is recent like I'm not telling you to ignore your feelings. But there's a nuance here that. I'm not convinced that that's a good enough reason to abandon an important plan. Now I didn't say that very well, I hope to is a little bit better but when I say to my son, for example okay, it's time we split some would. because. He'd partly with would in the winter and it might be a good day for splitting wood. In other words it's not raining too windy not too cold So working side is good and so you pick the right context for the behavior and I say, let's go split. Would I don't want to I? Don't feel like it and also Alex I didn't ask you how you feel what you WanNa do it's this is the best time. Aside. So. Last fall in October. One of the things that kept me away from anything else was finishing the edited book. On procrastination health and wellbeing and they'll be published later this year with future sear Wa who's now moved to Sheffield University and longtime listeners will have heard Fuchsia on quite a few times in the podcast because she's brilliant researcher and I think just is leading the pack now in the world in terms of just excellent research on procrastination one of the chapters in that book is written by philosopher from. Bishop's University. In this chapter, he argues about the notion of time I won't give this away 'cause I. Hope You come back and perhaps interview him about this because when the book comes out. But what he argues basically as that. You know on the one hand, we have this. University billion notion of time where any one moment in time is exchangeable with another. So this next ten minute block is good is the the or a ten minute block tomorrow or a ten minute block later today, and certainly that really promotes procrastination in a sense. But there's a deeper existential perspective here. And it relates in motion of when we're going to split would or why I went skiing this morning and that is this is the best time. This is the time for me to be or do this. So the time is ripe for something, and so this is really important in terms of the way we deal with time and I'll come back to this perhaps with an interview but in my house saying I don't feel like I don't want to when everything points in the direction of that this is the time to act doesn't go very far. So I don't feel like I don't want to speak to this notion of motivation. And I don't know where we got this belief but we all seem to implicitly hold that have to be in the mood. I. Have to want to do things and I've been scratching on that for quite a while and fact even while I was skiing today was thinking about it and I think about a lot because it's something that we don't have very. Much research on although I'm enticing the student now to do a thesis next year around autonomous motivation procrastination and there is a little bit of new research on that and a paper I have on my desk right now just published last year talks about autonomous motivation self efficacy and procrastination. So it's not like there's no research on it but I think that it's Just the beginning of how we need to understand this. You know most things are too so nuanced that you could say that yes, the more autonomous my motivation that means that we're doing it because we really want to because we are intrinsically motivated that's more likely to get done and not procrastinated on. But it isn't really that simple and even desi and Ryan who developed self determination theory say there's a continuum from totally external motivation. You're doing it because you're being paid or you're avoiding punishment to the other end intrinsic because you're doing it because it's the deepest passion your life in between there's all sorts of other. Forms of this motivation so that it's internalized but not necessarily completely intrinsic, it's integrated. With your value system to some point. So there is a continuum there that we can talk about and we could look at in research. But I want to stay just with this notion of I don't feel like it. I don't want to. and. How that actually gets in the way for many of us, it's that internal resistance. And I know writers have written about this as well. Little irony air course but Rogers speak of it and I don't know any journalist doesn't talk about it. There's there's this this resistance, but if you poke at that or scratched that a little bit. He realized that it's quite nondescript like not many of us can actually put words to the resistance revealing whether it's just fustration or boredom or. Fear or an uncertainty, and those are all certainly emotions that are associated with Tasca versus procrastination. But at any given point in time when arguing that many of us and I would say perhaps most. Can't just nail it and say, yeah, I'm not doing this because of this emotion if we could, we might be able to then get past that emotion but that's the whole thing. I don't feel like it. I don't want to. And this notion of a right time. So it's the best time to go for a ski, which is the best time for me to take care of myself today, or it's the best time to split would because that's something that has to be done in terms of an obligation and responsibility. The is if we're going to get these things done, we can't wait 'til we're in the mood that and this is the I can see no. I'm silly dad right, I'm a dinosaur dad and I'm still watching because my kids are young I'm watching all those movies and I just love Kung Fu Panda two few years old now. But when we watched it, you know what's the secret? There is no secret and I think that in this very profound sense that. There is no secret here we're going to. We're going to feel we're not gonna feel like doing things. We're not GONNA want to but it isn't about feeling on wanting it's about the doing. So. What I really wanted to focus on today is how we get past that precipitous moment then and get past this belief that I have to be in the mood. If I had to be in the mood for most things, I wouldn't do anything I don't know about you and I don't think it's just. Specific to me as a person but on any given day and I've got a life that I've created for myself. I'm really happy with but I can say I don't know what I'm GonNa do I don't feel like it and I don't feel like doing anything. It's almost pathetic some way I look at scratch my head and say, what is it? You're thinking and feeling that you don't want to do anything. And so I don't I don't focus there in. This is the crucial thing. This would be one of those mantras in fact. The mantra that? That I, work with and this is one work with a great deal. Comes from Parker Palmer from his brilliant book the Courage to teach and he writes I paraphrase I might might not be exact here. I can have fear but I need not be my fear because I can work from some other place of my inner landscape and that inner landscape includes things like my curiosity, my passion, my desire there's all I have all this other stuff alive and well on me. But at the moment might be dominated by boredom or tiredness or fear failure or you name it just pick your favorite negative emotion we have many. And if I let that dominate and I can't even sense these other parts of my inner landscape. The key thing here, and this is where Parker Palmer and I, both lean to very existential perspective because he says, I can choose to be some other part of my inner landscape. And of course, that's the deeply profoundly existential stance of choice and responsibility. I may not have complete choice in my life because of all the facts about my life but I have a choice about my attitude, I have a choice about the the way I approach anything in this comes, of course, from the famous work of. Viktor Frankl as well and man's search for meaning among his many titles. This notion of this deep sense of choice for even when Franken was in a concentration camp, he recognized still had choice. His choice was how he can act towards other inmates in the concentration camp how the attitude he could take even towards life and death itself. So that's the profound sense of at all. I think most people get that. Then we boil it down to our everyday lives. We say come on I got we're talking about whether I'm wanting to do the dishes or I'm going to split Wood when I say I'M GONNA SPLIT WOULD I'm GonNa make the bed. Yeah it. It comes down to all the little things in our lives and so a couple of things come together, and this is the paradox of way I think great truth come about in the way we think in in life that on the one hand, I can take the David Allen approach and I do all the time an advocate all this all the time. What's the next action we don't do projects is David Allen says. Actions. So for me, that's one of my personal mantras, what's the next action and boil it down to something very concrete. On the other hand and if longtime listeners will no, I'm I'm going back to some basic ideas but that doesn't surprise me because I told you I don't have that much new to say but I think that I wanted to take this on the sense of I don't feel like it. And in this comes back to the Zen Buddhist story. In my early history I spent a lot of time doing spiritual searching. So when I wasn't teaching tennis rainy days I was reading spiritual philosophy and I spent time in the seminary and even a monastery and I read a lot Zen Buddhism and although I would not say, I'm a religious person at all. Now these inform greatly who I am and what I think and believe. In the story simply goes like this the young novices seeking enlightenment as we all seem to be. And he says to the master master what do I need to do and the Masters says have you finished your rice? And the novice says, yes, and he says in Washer. Bull. So, he put these two things together the mundane in some respects although it's not a fair way to characterize David Allen's insight but it is mundane in the sense of what's next action. Or this Zen Buddhist story of then Wash Your Bull, which of course, is the same thing. Then what's the next action? And that really sums it up so much that we can focus on the negative emotions is idol feel like I. Don't want to and act and behave much like a child does. And think that's an explanation or we can say, yes, I, have these feelings than me feelings come and go as the Buddhist would say we have monkey mind. And it's busy place in can be a negative place and even as I was reading that email I reflected on the fact that we're really hard on ourselves. We have such negative thoughts about self and we can just spiral with that in psychology call this rumination, and we know that rumination is very highly correlated with depression and other negative states and they feed on each other and so. The thing is we have to extract ourselves from that. So where does boil down to? Well, we have this resistance I don't feel like it I don't want. At that point in time that's a huge flagged for me, but it isn't about how I feel. Tim. Remember I said. I'm not always ignoring my Felix that I. think that would be I mean this is the problem with making anything a blanket statement I'm not advocating you always ignore your Felix because I'm a person with great passion. In fact, I went out skiing this morning because I knew I really needed a ski and I took the best time in the day to do that and I just built in the other things. Around. It and passions. Great important thing in life you have to do the things you're passionate about and feelings are desperately important but I think we use feelings differently in the statement I don't feel like I don't want to. So two things are coming together here in terms of this discussion one is philosophical and one is linguistic, and actually if I told you the literature of my academic development, I stood Certificate of teaching, this is the second language because I thought, I wanted to go travel the world and teach English as a second language but really what happened is that The greed nine student who loves science came alive and university on my second degree. This short certificate and then just continued on to graduate school. But linguistics screwed me up for the rest of my life. As George Carlin would say philosophy would do to you. We will screw up for the rest of your life linguistics. Did you know the way we use language isn't? Necessarily the same even though structurally syntactical, it looks the same. So when I say No I'm not advocating ignore your feelings in a sense I'm saying, I. Don't really think when I say I don't feel like I don't want to is really a true statement of my. I hope in this is making sense but you know whenever we people talk with each other and although this is one way discussion that's what we're doing. We only get out of it what we're ready to get out of it and what we share language and communications vary imprecise thing. So you're GonNa get from it what you're going to get from it and I'm doing my best explain my perspective here, and that's just the way it is so. I don't feel like I don't want to. I yet. Somehow I have this naive belief that I should be in the mood. I don't know where that comes from writers sometimes talk about their Muse but A. Good Writers and composers no, you can't do that good writers. Right every day and composer sit down every day and compose. And so when we face the mundane tasks whether that would be me this morning getting up well before light and making coffee and putting the way the dishes because we let them air dry and getting on with talking kids lunches. I could say I don't feel like I'm not sure what I'm saying when I say that is that a deeply existential dissatisfaction with my life? No not at I just love my children and these are the things that come with having children and I'm moving them towards making their own lunches of course as well. If that's what you're Thinkin, say make their lunches at all. As my wife, sometimes it advocate. But the the point is. That I have to move pass those laws that internal resistance and struggle and real just noise and say, what's the next action? And then truly that's when the magic happens. When we're doing, we experience you demonic satisfaction not had don. ACC- satisfaction not to hedonism but you demonic this is another part of our wellbeing it comes from being and doing the things that are. That matter to us. And that is the bottom line, and that's why ironically procrastination is such a thief because on the one hand, we procrastinate to respond to the needs I, don't feel like it. So we think we're gonNA feel good if we don't do it and so we ask we do we give into feel good and we get this immediate mood repair but then we don't satisfy our deep you demonic needs of doing the things that matter pursuing the goals that matter to us. As the LAUDI, there's my Canadian Canadian Ism, my tag question Universal Question A. But that was lot and it was rambling but I think that was the best way for me to express most of this it's not a study is not the result of one line of fought. It's the grappling with this notion of I don't feel like it idol want to and what does that mean in terms of huts the relationship between motivation and procrastination In an ideal world, we'd be wickedly autonomously motivated and everything we do would be intrinsically motivated but that just isn't true that at that ideal world is part of the problem that we think there is such a place. The truth the matter always seems to be that just a social psychologists have shown. US attitudes will follow behaviors. Are Motivation will fall our behaviors once I, get doing I see myself as a doer I get really pumped up on the Progress I'm making and it's as I said before in the my overused. Now I'm sure it's magical, but it is magical. There's no no greater feeling than getting the things done that you want to get done. Lay My colleague from York University, who I talked about recently in a podcast who's with them in a podcast. Argues is really clearly that this is where the real pain comes from a life with joy in life is is getting the things done. That are the things you intend to do the intended to them because they're who you want to be. Again this existential issue of this becoming in the world this being in the world that. We're always acting out our lives are defined by the projects that we Engaging. That's it. There's a podcast for your four January of two thousand sixteen. I'll tell you I feel very vulnerable putting this out there because I let myself to speak to an issue. As, you can clearly see it's not scripted. I'm not sitting in front of piece of paper saying these are the points I wanna make. But that I this is the topic on discussing the these are the key ideas at a wanted to get across. and. I hope as the writer of the email that I began with a wrote that this makes a difference to those of you like me and like others who struggle with getting on with things with doing the things that matter to us and we beat ourselves up saying, this is so important to me why won't I do it? We have to move past that internal debate and work from US part of our inner landscape. Not, engaging with the the the statements I don't want to I don't feel like fat exists there that I can work from some other place and I can simply do. What. Either David Allen Implores us to do what's the next action or I can go back to the deep wisdom of Zen tradition and say then go washable. If this is the first time you've been listening to I. Procrastinate podcasts you'll find more information at procrastination dot CA. You'd be glad to know that I've started revising that website. So I'm. I've started to design a new website. It's not ready to be posted, but actually got a going. Up. Thing making time for it, and that's one of the projects I have for my sabbatical. So. You'll soon see that change but the content I changed that much. It's just to be nicer looking it'll be more portable for I devices or. Of Portable, devices and also of streaming. Take things out if I if anything I'm going to get things out of their some of it's quite the stig, Joel and sense of it reflects the beginnings of our my work together with my students and not really where we're at now. But procrastination DOT CA is the mother ship. Invite you take a look and as always if you wanNA give me feedback. I listen a take it. seriously. I'm glad to hear from you too happy news. Thirty. Back All sweeten around. The day. Listen things away. Actually stay. So. Ahead. Episode. Out Scenes after. mean. Only. Wrath. Ahead. Win. Was the his. Out Back. Shannon. Talk. Way.
Defend the evil stupid CDC !!!!
"They. May. Give a day Celtic to the evil CDC and the evil the corona virus Lord Jesus come help can't come take Christian the way now. I. Don't think I can live anymore this year. Even are. Already Ted to move the. I don't think I live anymore this year. I'll be totally honest. I don't think. More this year. Let me read the. Off. One of my friends on facebook page. and. Every freaking time thumped is going on every time. The stupid grown virus stupid man don't out. Of the pride limit, People's draining and automated give per day parade. And the news. May Thanksgiving Day we'll. Be. Readily. Apparent down due to the UGLY STUPID SCAM CORONA virus. Their annual annual holiday event that kick all Christmas down Christmas shopping season will now will now feature smaller event preclu- precluded to New York. City. and. Trying to. Okay, the Mateen Thanksgiving Day parade a nearly century Old New York City and institution will be practically particularly apparent down from usual larger than life format due to the ongoing grown up out of this November. Nobel Dr. Mitchell. Said on Monday. Ms Talk. Damage tone announce the department store a now it had. Had to read the diner upcoming ninety four addition of the parade. Toward the end of November. November twenty. Go Wherever Twenty Six Oh. My God. Is it the info? His is literally Dan. The world is coming to the end I. Don't know what the day. I. Don't know what to say any more. I I I'm I'm I'm shocked. Whatever? The hell happened to the show must go on. Without the damn. Window. Anyway Hey said it would be stayed in a in a manner similar to his fourth of July fireworks show. Finally author theft both state and innovate and the Maybe, four to drive fireworks show it is our attention to similarly re renaming macy's Thanksgiving break death over the retail giant thet and a statement. The you we have to go to this another part of the year. We had to go through this. Again This year before the July. Issues made the fourth of July. Fireworks Show stayed recorded at devils ball display across the five boroughs and the day leading up to the Independence Day show odd EPI. Easter play lasted five minutes. To avoid. Crowds. In this year. And annually by Maith the at by MB parade events will be staged over two days. The overall number a participant will be reduced by partly sunny five ten and all participants will be. I'm not saying the word they got that were the enemy of the here. picky country. It's ruining everything I'm not saying the word I'm not saying the word. According to A. Statement everything is owned by NBC Universal, the Parent Company, NBC News. The digital two point five, Mile Parade route will not be a part of this year or the event on either stand high school and College Martin Ban across the country who were invited to perform this year, we'll have there appeared to. Derail until twenty twenty I don't WanNa. Be Anymore. I'm done I don't Wanna eat as you read it for yourself I'm get I'm getting I'm copying a thing you can read this way. South. I don't WanNa read it anymore. They're making this year unlivable unlivable. Totally. Unlivable. I mean going late into Dang on November for crying out loud late November I mean we can't have I can't even go home yet. Again. You Go. Home the real whole now my new palace. But my home on a cruise ship. Dave. Dave Fun they. Don't believe the really fun the theory. That would you don't need around here anymore you're. At the city, the one that really ruined in light around here if you really want to the fucked up you the. I'm going to add onto this. I. Didn't I didn't want it the daily, but I don't add onto this. I thought about faithful pay what into cat. I just had this question for this evil the-the-they what in the cat the the-the-they knows about toyoko wearing man trying to eat felton. What the hell the Tino about a two year old wearing a man anyway. Especially when they go to kindergarten or whatever when they don't WanNa keep on their man, you know they play around with it kicked off and all that. And then then then then the parents being topic two year olds two year olds. Nothing what kind of college? What kind of what kind of degree do they have to order two year old where man? What do they know what the Hell do? They know about Y'all wearing a ken stake in ugly. And Pied Away I told you. To go when a whole other math mandate started to sweep across the country. That it is not about health. I kinda new at of filling that these rules are going to go overboard. Cop. Happy. Trigger. Happy. Okay They're gonNa go going home about these ruled already taken off two year olds let invite it's already affecting my own favorite airline because some Tried attendant who probably just just started trying? Don't even know that we could eat. Without km mask. Take off. I will get on without birthright when I came back from. came. From a prototype. Landau. I without man they want then they would have kicked me off. I can't the my trip because of the. Because ad when I, read Dad. I can't my. Any any of my adult that even come down to. The airline that I could fly because it's low cost and they do that I'm not flying. I'm not flying them. Until this whole until they get their that cat out of their head and and figure out. 'cause I'm kind of lenient the towards the stupid rules. Afford like it's like it's like it's the back good cop backup thing. Therefore. A stupid thing. They're forcing a stupid thing. Kicking out two year olds that right pickup airline the now too small airline. Oh. My God. This really piss me off. It'd be really pissed me off. Then, I got gotta scramble finding another airline. Okay. Or? I gotta find a way to reschedule my trip because I like I said, I had certificate. And I know how I'm GonNa take that. Oral. That ticket and then get another one. You know pay for another one. I mean, this is. Shady say must be the funded. It looked be the funding. Now. Now. Don't know nothing about two year old. I don't care their parents that. They don't know how they're gonNa make ruled about these stupid man. and. Now he has that as I either week or every every month to here in ally kicking two year old as a as always two year old. Now my own.
Ending the Procrastination Habit
"Hello it's Friday November the third twenty seventeen and this is typical back with another. I procrastinate podcast. I'm going to begin today by reading some. Letters from listeners and then I'm gonNA move from there. The last letter will take me. They're going to move from there to an interview with a student from the US who contacted me recently to tell me about the changes that have gone on in his life how he moved as you'll hear in both the interview and in the letter from being an expert practitioner of procrastination to someone who in many respects you'd say it's just a different person and I've wanted to talk with him today and do this podcast in an interview with him to talk about how did you do that? What strategies did you use to get some insights because I know there are many students they're? Hoping for the same quantum change in personality. That I have been getting lots of email mainly because I'm not having been doing podcasts and blogging guests and people are wondering where I? Am I'm really busy with other things and as I've said to some listeners and readers is that Gino I feel like I've said everything and that's where I'm going to read this first letter and address that issue right off the bat. So Pro Dan writes. Hello Dr Mitchell I've been making my way through your podcast and I really love it I think that a lot more people are about to discover it as it's fair unique and practical and more and more people are coming to podcasts for the first time my comment there's first of all. Thank you for the compliment and glad you love the podcast. It is interesting to me to see just how podcasting has taken off. I started podcasting in two thousand and five and put up my first podcast in two thousand and six. So now it just seems like been there done that of t shirt and now podcasting is getting to be very high production values. Very. Artistic. Really nicely done I compliment so many podcasters on the artful way which they put things together. But from the very beginning especially as I stumbled with the technology was available to us then as compared to now. I really kept this a low production value issue because I'm focused on just sharing content from the things that I've learned my own research. In any case I agree many many people are coming into podcasting and that's where this listener goes with his email. He says. Having listened to over forty episodes. Now I think that there are some extremely valuable insights that aren't really discover easily discoverable by new listeners. The way that apple podcasts, the apple podcast APP works, which as you might know, is the way most podcast listen to off make a comment just here, and that is I've had other people ask me to put it on spotify. Google and I have done it with Google haven't gotten spotify yet. So there are other ways people are accessing podcast, but I agree to particularly at the beginning everyone was using apple and those of us who have been. Working with apple since the nineteen eighties like I have continue to do that. But the way the apple podcast APP works is that it shows only the. Latest episode and the description of that episode it's very unlikely that your new listeners will get some of your earlier insights since they'll never see them in their feed i. also heard you said you were more or less out of topics to discuss having covered most of your research. Well, that's true and it's not true. I've been thinking hard about that. I'm still doing research. I've got some very interesting projects going on right now with students and we just published a paper that will appear in a journal in two thousand eighteen but it's own already oftentimes do the podcast ahead of time and it was about active procrastination and you can. Find that podcast just by going back a little bit but the point that. I hope I'm saying that right and maybe Prodan is making here is that unless you have your feed opened up that you download many of them, not just the latest episode you're only going to think that there's an episode or two available, and in fact, there's one hundred plus episodes. Let me continue with email. I think there's a way to remedy both of those issues by making a few new podcast that are more or less an overview of your research and the episodes you produce so far. They can be essentially an index for new listeners. You can give a brief overview of a given topic say what the actionable insight from that topic is, and then let the listeners know which episodes of the podcast they can go to. For a more in depth analysis. You can also use that opportunity include new research and insights into some of the older episodes I. think that's a really good idea and as time opens up for me in the winter term I'm teaching right now in very busy in the winter term might be able to make a commitment to that notice I'm hedging I'm saying might. because you know that I haven't been coming back to these but it's not dead and I still getting well, it's well over two and a half million listeners now or or listens. So it's still actively listen to even though I'm not feeding it regularly, but I think is a really good idea. In fact, it would behoove me to reduce some of the earlier podcasts because technology does using was just so awful both. In terms of the audio quality and and just the way I put it all together. So I may do that. So thanks for that recommendation. the last paragraph of this. Email. Goes I. think that. Will be very valuable for both you as a way to have a few. Here is what I've learned over the years type episodes, and for you new listeners to get a sense of where to begin. As. You've covered before the paradox of choice can be a huge obstacle to having a few guiding episodes would definitely help that will probably be useful to your longtime listeners as well as it will serve as reminding for some of the stuff they've already heard implemented. That's true. We can hear things many times I often listen to the same book over and over again to really learn from it. and the the email closes with. Thank you and keep up the amazing work and thank you so much for taking time to write although I don't read everyone's e Mail on the podcast I really appreciate all of them and I'm very grateful to hear from listeners and from readers and I will. Take that strategy up. But until I do, I would encourage new listeners. If this is the first episode you're listening to, and it may be because it's going to be such an interesting one for young people. I say talk from with. Nelson in this. Interview that you're going to hear in just a few minutes. I'm three times over three times older than he is, and yet he's wise beyond his years. You just can't believe what a grasp he's got on goal setting and how to achieve goals. It's really excellent and so this is where you're starting at encouraged back and look through the episodes that are available they're all archived and you can if you go to procrastination dot CA. And Click on the podcast link right on the homepage it will take you to the interface that I'm using at A. Lipson, it's liberal liberated syndication I think is their full name. but it's not as Lipson, and that's where I've had my podcast right from the very beginning, and if you go there, you'll be able to scroll through by year topic and see which of the episodes you'd like and you can see them on I tunes as well as at least last time I looked at I tunes. I can go back through all of the episodes and a listener help me figure out how to do that too. So if you're really technically savvy and you WanNa help me stay up to date with podcasting you can always send me an email and coach Mia Okay. So once again, thanks to all the listeners that are sending the emails I really appreciate it. It is encouraging motivating me to get back to it. But I have to admit there is a part of me as I said, it's kind of like. Done that bought the t shirt and I think there's so many. Episodes there that would provide so much useful information that there's not a lot more that needs to be set. That's a there's there are things emerging that are of interest than there are new ways that I think about things and put things together in fact, in an upcoming episode, and I hope to be able to get permission from. someone wrote to me just yesterday along very interesting e mail and it don't just read you the first sentence when it comes to procrastination I've already hit rock bottom. And I'll tell you it's a very beautifully written piece. This is a thoughtful insightful person and I've asked for permission from him to share this and maybe just talk through the issues he's facing because he he really identify some things that have not dealt with well on the PODCASTS. Okay So just the end of October Nelson contacted me. And Nelson. had. A remarkable change in his life he Say thanks which I really appreciated in there. Oh, back to him and said, you know it's really nice that you took time to say thank you and then I said you know given that you've had this remarkable change in your life and that you're a student and so many students would really like to turn the corner procrastination. Do you think he'd take some time to do a podcast with me and I was also looking for way to bootstrap my podcast and thought what a perfect way to do that in an interaction with someone and he said, yes. And prior to US having the interview that you're going to hear in a moment, he wrote me an email I thought I might read you this email. Because it'll give you background to the things we talk about I think that most people when they just right. They have a chance to keep the coherence, and of course, when we're in a discussion especially with me, I bounced around a lot. So this might help you understand all of the aspects of Nelson's interview. I asked him to he said, he wanted to to me and give me some ideas of what he was going to say he got back to me and he said, sorry for the late response to just finished the last of my midterms this week and I, wanted to really get my thoughts out on the experience. I. Went off in a tangent but I wanted to point toward the things that have made a drastic difference in my day to day life not drastic differences why I'm so interested in talking to him and talked to him earlier this week. But then busy as I am I couldn't put the podcast up then. And in psychology, we can call these drastic differences. These really quick changes in personality relatively speaking quantum challenges. Leap. Turn a corner and I think many of us are hoping for this wishing for this in terms of our motivation and our procrastination. So Nelson continues a little bit about my story. I was an expert practitioner procrastination throughout my high school career. It was really bad because I found school to be easy I would do my work the night before getting a on the assignment this strategy crashed and burned once I started to take more intensive classes as you'll hear in the interview advanced placement classes, AP classes or what he took. So in high school he used his strategy but when he started doing college and university level courses while still in high school advanced placement courses, he realized his night before strategy didn't work he crashed and burned. I actually got into a self help reading binge and realize none of them had helped me in any meaningful way I stumbled upon your work and that's when I would agree that real change was unfolding. I was slowly getting a hold of my habits at the end of my senior year. But taking account of myself now in first. Semester. College I would say that my friends and. In High, school, with think, I was a different person and that was that notion of quantum change. I'm speaking of that. These are little things that have happened to him. You know for someone to write that people might seem as different. person has that notion of quantum change there's a small literature in psychology on that. I go for early morning runs eat healthy avoid distractions, and for the first time in my life, I'm completing assignments that day they're handed to us I would attribute my success to the following and this is what I think. You're interested in. You're going to hear it once in the letter. And then we unpack it together a bit further in the interview. The new environment, it was a breath of fresh air that I was in a new setting and I didn't have the same behavior triggers as I did in high school in a new senate I could start from square one. This is so powerfully true. You Know Habits are behaviors that we've learned in certain contexts. Contexts become a stimulus for action. There's really no thought process. It's a habitual response. It's a pre potent response. So changing settings is very powerful. This is true of people who deal with addictions if they go back. To the same situation than they have same resprayed, basically your brain has the same response the neurons that fire together wire together, and you've developed this habit, and if you can get out of that context, you're more likely to succeed, but it's it's not absolutely essential. If you go back to episodes on implementation intentions or blog writing, I did on psychology today on implementation intentions. The reason they're so powerful is that they help establish new habits by using the environment strategically. So take a look at implementation intentions if you haven't already. Next thing Nelson Rights is I had an order of operations and he talks about this in the interview as well. My activities fluctuate because of clubs, my fraternity and class tutoring but my time from one to three PM is exclusively for work and the hour that I don't have classes exclusively for things I want to do like read or watch a show I actually look forward to this time because I get to enjoy right after it and fulfill any obligations accordingly throughout the rest of the. This is really important. I think for those of you who think someone might turn a corner from you know being a procrastinator to being someone that others might describe as completely different person he think. Yeah. But then you become a nerd or somebody doesn't enjoy life and nothing could be further from the truth. In fact, as you'll hear in the interview, Nelson's a very well rounded individual he likes he's social he likes doing lots of different things but he's learned to make time for work and importantly. He continues. Reflecting on adulthood in the future. Your Twenty Sixteen podcast I don't feel like it. I don't want to one of my favorites thinking back to that I e mail that I read. There's a good cue for listeners. Here's a person WHO's made this big change in saying here's a podcast. You Might WanNa listen to twenty sixteen I don't feel like it. I don't want to one of my favorites too because I really just integrated a lot of information. Nelson rates, it had reflect that in many ways, the lines of adulthood are blurred and college. My procrastination was signaling immaturity and a lack of self respect. Somehow, it never quite clicked for me that I was hurting. Emphasis was there all capital letters hurting myself with my behavior? I get comments that it's morbid but I have a poster of a grid representing the amount of weeks in an average human lifespan. I feel in one of the squares, each Sunday I do get a bit of anxiety but I found that helps keep me honest I wanna make the best use of my time and have value-added every day I won't Laborat- More on that but I did speak to Nelson about it because I think this is fascinating for lots of reasons I think it's this is where he's showing wisdom beyond his years Because getting that sort of existential perspective is hugely important in developing a sense of agency and this is something that Nelson I didn't get into. So I should make a couple of comments about it that to be to have a sense of agency means that you have that sense of responsibility for yourself, and in fact, Nelson reflects his own agency here when he wreck realizes that it was a lack of self respect that his procrastination as reflecting Nettie was hurting himself. So he's realizing that as an agent, he was doing not to himself, and so this is really a great insight that drove a lot of his change. Here's last paragraph. Related to the second point and it's from your book quote my current Motivational State does not need to match my intention and to act and quote. This was the big one for me. I wrongly assumed that my peers in highschool were succeeding because they never struggled with the material and they were naturally drawn to doing work all the time. Now, I know they succeeded because they struggled successfully in spite of doubts and worries was huge weight lifted off my shoulders I thought my chronic procrastination made me a broken person i. now know enough to realize that I can do things in spite of my tendencies and then I can get to where I want to be while being who I am. When I finish Simon early, I know better than to assume that my desire to put things off as cured none of my emotions are new, but my responses are different. That is just so insightful. He just nails it I think that it's so important to recognize that. Your motivation doesn't need the match task at hand and. We we make so many assumptions about other people writers do this all the time people who are learning to write. Thank that writing comes easily for others in. That's why the good writers in fact, this is typically not the case good writers struggle and they revised and they edit and they revise and they struggle and they get to it, and even though they have these self doubts, they still make the effort and this is the bottom line insight that's built on that sense of agency and this last part that he said was so important. None of my emotions are new. Right, it's not like he's had this quantum change in his life externally. He said my teachers and others might think I'm a new person but inside he's still recognizes the same emotions I. think that's crucial because for many of you who try this, then go look I don't feel like a new person inside Nelson doesn't always feel like a new person. I, certainly don't, and we talk a little bit about how we get past that and how we keep putting one foot in front of the other even when we're filled with anxiety and self doubt. That's the email that he sent me as well as a short one just to say, thank you and really my thanks quote to him as I said to my only mouth just for taking time for writing and reflecting and for sharing his success. So I'll take you now to his interview and at the end of the interview, we go kind of abruptly. So it's going to end quickly and then it ends with the same procrastination song that if used for years wonderful song. Should check out the website of the composer musician. He's an on Canadian. He's from Ontario area called Waterloo and I met a friend of his at a conference who told she told me about his work and I contacted him and he's let me use a song and it's just so perfect. If you ever linger at the PODCAST, you can listen to the lyrics very powerful but he's a great musician and interesting guy, and you can listen to more music if you'd like. I hope I will come back and do more podcasts and I say that an attentive voice only because I'm a very busy with other things particularly my own family life and I feel like I've done a lot with the podcast already but I do have a commitment to do other things with this podcast and I'm hoping the next next podcast might focus around another. Listener who sent me that beautiful email I mentioned in passing about the fact that he's hit rock bottom because he also liked this interview with Nelson's very insightful about what's happening life. Other information and other issues we could. Address. All right. It's good to be back in lots of different ways, I. Hope you enjoy the interview and hope that you'll go back and look at other episodes if you're a new listener. Nelson. Array. Oh, I can hear you now. That's good. House audio quality, but not bad. You have their headset in. Yeah that's good. Did you find a quiet place on campus? In run the libraries room so Excellent. Well, thanks for working through all that. It's it's a funny technology at times and also thanks for making time today. It's great. Problem my pleasure. Soon where where are you exactly what university? I'm at the College of New Jersey here, ewing? College of New Jersey and urine what year now I'm a first year student? Student so you're into your midterms now. Yeah I just finished. Good good and how they go. I got also you my lowest grade so far. I'll tell you It's a ninety four. So I'm very pleased with the results. Well done and well, that's great because what we're GONNA talk about. How you got yourself there because. When you wrote me the email just to say, thanks for the book and the work you and then you follow up another email. You said that you were an expert practitioner of procrastination highschool you. Would do it at the last minute and pull off. Nay. But that all came to a crashing halt. With University with College University work, and now you've figured it out obviously because you're getting even better grades you're getting a plus greats. That's fantastic. Yeah it was definitely a struggle especially, when is are taking AP classes then I had to. You know I realized that what got me to that point in wasn't helped me from that point on. Classes are those I didn't get the acronym. So, those are advanced placement classes here in the US their college level courses that they provide in high school. Okay. That's when the light went on. That's because on. Your first or student I wondered. Okay. So how did you learn that so quickly but you had that transitional period where you were doing advanced placement courses and your strategies is a high school student didn't work. But then you turned a corner. So that's what we really wanted to talk to you about today because you wrote me some fascinating things about the we've done it but I don't want to jump tear your email. I'd rather have a conversation about this and so why don't we start from the beginning and save you took time to write to me an author who you know and so that matter to you that. You'd made a change in your life. So what what was going on and how did that change happen? Yeah. So there was a period during I'd say throughout my junior and senior year of high school that. The procrastination got so bad. It was like I liken it to a kind of desperation and I was Kinda. Just grasping at things of like. what am I not understanding here like where the flaws in my thinking and that kind of. Led Me to a lot of self help books, but none of them ever worked and I kind of got into the field that you were studying. So I started just looking at science and what researches had to say about it because there is empirical evidence behind it and it kinda expose me to these new ways of thinking and it Kinda. Helped me reach out to other people as well who had the same issues online and allow the strategies it helped a ton and. I realized that it wasn't really my abilities, but my lack of willingness to you know exert. Self Control on myself. WHAT'S INTERESTING Is that you talked about the fact that you learn strategies. So I'd like to hear what some of those strategies but one of the things that you said to me your email is that you know your emotions didn't change. You're still feeling the same way about your work particularly around motivation. It's not like all of a sudden you woke up and go. Gee I've always got the motivation to work, but that's your response is different. So how did you? Change that approach to your work that you kind of got past the myth of while other students must be just loving their work because they're getting it done and you've got to the point where you realize that I don't have to love my work. So how did you make? Definitely, that was a major for May. So I was always type of person to compare myself to others. So when people invisibly struggle when I was really having a tough time, I, falsely interpreted that the reason for their success was Oh it must be easy for them and it's always been easy. That's what I thought but when I was exposed the idea that. Through talking to other people to that know they struggled and wrestled with it successfully it's not that it came easy than eight Kinda had this revolutionary way of. Transferring my by approach to difficulty and that. That you know I, realize it. No one is free of this feeling. So it Kinda of had that communal benefit to it. You know you don't get to where you want to be easily. That's that's a truism we see posted everywhere but then you've made it real in your life the notion of realizing that and that's what I really WanNa Bang on a bit harder today because you just figured it out I mean your grades living proof of that from the advanced placement classes where you realize your strategy more working. Recognizing that you procrastination as you put, it was almost like a desperation. Near you covered the ground in terms of self help book, but those weren't helping but then going to the science around procrastination and other people you knowledge really made a difference and then as you just said, you know you can't get to your goals unless you put in the hard work but then it's for many people there still gap. But okay how do I get past these emotions have? So what do you do concretely? That has changed that makes your work possible. Slow for me. Right. Now, I used focus on I learned from your podcast. Also the phrasing of what's next I believe you got it from another author that you know people don't do projects, they perform actions and that's been so helpful for me because I still got a lot of anxiety and stress whatever beginning a new project or assignment of just looking at the loomis of it all but I find that distressing anxiety would performing little tasks is very manageable It's still always there to some degree but My intentions always place out. Take priority over my feelings. That's what I tell myself and it's been very helpful in helping me endure a lot of it and. After while it goes away too. So even if it's there a little bit like it's very manageable. So how old are you if I can ask? I am nineteen thirteen I'm over three times older than you because I'm sixty two now and I'll tell you that this morning I was facing some tasks. Quite, an experience professor and I was editing a student's ethics proposal for a study we're about to do. And like you I had all this stuff going on in my head about not wanting to do it and being anxious about it in its own way and I did exactly what you were talking. But as I said, okay, what's the next action and I did borrow that from David Allen, that kind of wording. Writing I wrote about it as just get started because that's what came out of early research with experience sampling but I really love this focus on action as you do too. And I started making the actions and Soon soon, enough I was done that review. Because it. In fact, I've done it a few times at the student reading he gets better and better. And then I felt really good about myself. Of course as you say, it starts to subside the anxiety starts to fade because now you're doing it's that inbetween so Why I'm commenting on that is that here you are. You know you're not even in your twenties and you've just got this really powerful tool, your disposal that's already made a difference and yet. I can't let go of that tool I. Suppose it's a tool that I just gotTa keep using and I think that's true. Most tools, right? That's why they're tools. Their. Yeah. A main message I agree that. What's the next action and it's embedded that notion just get started? I was fascinated when you told me that you. Your your peers and your teachers might even see you as a different person. Now, what does that mean? Eso. With people that you know you kind of have underlying sense of how reliable they are do like to their past history. So they see their past history of you and then they use it Kinda extrapolate what you're going to do next. Might Teachers. I would say in high school, they bury much not seem as a reliable person But I. if they were to see my performance in college hopefully, they believe me when I say that I've changed I now do assignments today they're assigned that was. Man and high school that. That response from me would have been more like I do this today there do. So that's what I meant by that like I don't think they would realize how much why behavior's changed. That's incredible I. Bet you listeners you're having a startled reaction to the same time. Many listeners say I wanna be that guy so we gotta keep talking together to help people understand how you made that transformation when I'm teaching right now teach personality and so in some ways I would say, yeah, that kind of usual pattern of behaviors, thoughts and feelings are what we consider personality. So people would make this a judgment about your personality and you put it. So clearly, you're not reliable the trait that that's related to conscientiousness and not surprisingly conscientiousness is very strong correlate, very strongly related to procrastination, but negatively a higher conscientiousness, the lower procrastination sort of very real sense your reliability their consciousness has gone way up and you did that strategically. You also said to me in the email and I said I wouldn't go back to it but I can't help because it was such a great piece of writing. Now. You say I'm a different person I go for early morning runs eat healthy avoid distractions, and as you just said, and for the first time in my life, I'm completing assignments today they're handed to us and I would attribute that success to the following. So we're going to go there but it's not just in your work was it seems to affected many parts of your life in terms is achieving your goals. Yeah very much so. Are there other goals you didn't mention there that you're eating more healthy you're working out What kind of effects did that have even on your studying the they worked together in a positive way or are they unrelated. Of very much so I'd say that there's With all those goals in working on them I've also developed a very. Strong sense of self respect for myself. So Just very good at south understanding, I'm not is hard on myself as I used to be because I, know the struggle it can create for myself I'm definitely you know I gained a lot of pride from it especially from comparing to where I am now to where I was I'd say that I'm very much more goal oriented because of it. Really like the balance you put there between self compassion and goal orientation. you develop a sense of what people who write about self compassion talk about common humanity. We're just human. We all make mistakes and you don't WanNa be too hard on yourself. As you say, because you know it's affects our. But that doesn't undermine your goal orientation, which is beautiful. I mean that's that's really where we all want to live in that zone between understanding that we picked and we're not expected to be. It doesn't mean that we don't do our goals. You you said to me that. One. Of the things that you do. That some people might think is kind of weird is that you have a poster can you describe that poster in your room? Yeah I get a lot of comments from it. Saying how morbidity is when people visit my dorm but So. I have a poster of how many weeks are in an average human life of eighty five years and I take a box off every Sunday to remind myself that time is limited and I should do the best to make use of it. I think that's beautiful. especially at your age again like you're wise beyond your years because I talked to my own students about this and this personality class particularly when we Talk. About a humanistic perspective for an existential perspective on life that our existence is limited temporarily time is the one thing that is truly non-renewable resource. You can't make more of it and you don't know how much you're going to get and I think that's why in every major world religion. There's this notion of a notion of sin in its broadest sense, and that's sloth is often one of those since that that we can't waste this precious gift of life and you found such an interesting way to quantify that. In this world with technology people entitled the quantified self that you wear a fitbit and you know how many steps you've taken and you count calories and quantify everything. But what's so powerful? What you've done is you use the simple calendar to quantify time and and that's had an effect on you I take it. Yeah definitely I've been told by many older people that their twenty s a really important. So I wanted to put my life into perspective and kind of imbue my daily activities with a meaning and a sense of purpose. So although it gives me a little bit of stress I find that it helps keep me honest with myself also. I think so too in our think you've really yourself up well for that success especially because you've already told me that you have this notion of self compassion because the will be periods in our lives where things don't go as well and we can some people use the expression fall off the wagon per se. We use that oftentimes with sorts of addictions like alcohol or drugs, but we can do that. Even in terms of our good habits, we can run into dark periods. In fact, just the other day I was asked by a blogger to fill out. A series of questions and they're asking people who had various kinds of success. You know, how do you deal with dark periods in your life and and their their periodic? I said, you know we it's like the the night and day cycle where you're going to have dark periods. You're GonNa have times when things aren't going your way, but you're setting yourself up with such powerful strategies that are age that I think lots of students would like to. That's an interesting thing you you're reflecting on the the time you have left in how you don't WanNa wasted. Affected your friends they tried to do what you're doing. I have. A good question. I suppose that I schedule a lot of study sessions with them but I'm not sure if it has affected them in any other way other than When I study I usually ask everyone to turn off their notifications and I tell them about my But I'm not sure if it's affecting them directly. Oh, you're modeling lot of powerful behaviors that it takes time for that recognition to sink him. But that's great that you're sharing it I'm the director of a program at my university where. Students who don't necessarily have the grades to get in our for whatever reason can be that they were underachievers. There's something happened in their home that they couldn't study as much. We give them a chance to earn that. It's like a placement courses in a sense, but it's actually at the university owned and we spend a lot of time doing exactly what you're doing informally we have. Peer. Near. Peer Mentors facilitators who run workshops that are study sessions really, and we demonstrate and model study skills and so really you've done that on your own and I find that quite remarkable and and really a great thing what a gift. So. You you struggle with procrastination and one of the techniques and strategies you go to is you know what's the next action other things that you've learned from your conversations with others online or through your reading of the science or listen to the podcast that you'd want to highlight for others? So. It's very I think. It's a really good idea to start off. So if you're trying to be procrastination, you could start scaffolding simple rules for yourself. This is where tremendously for me So I started off with kind of a morning routine Every time I wake up in the morning. I. Make my bed than I do a little bit of the reading. And you know I could be happy with that for the day and tomorrow I'll wake up to my bad do a little bit of reading and maybe you know planned the rest of the day. I. Think. We've really tend to emphasize huge changes from day to day. But if you make little changes every day you'd be really surprised how much of a difference that's mate that makes over a course of a month or a year kind of having an order of operations for yourself. I think. Is, huge? Yeah, I totally agree with you and that you've gotten to the point now where you've loved that framework scaffolding now have a period of time each day with that exclusive for work, and then after that though. What so from one to three, o'clock the you use that just for your schoolwork. Yeah. It's really important to have a dedicated time. Also it relieves a lot of stress remain. So once to three PM I do nothing but exclusively school related work and I give myself the space for the rest of the day to pursue other things and you know if I decide to do more work than that's even better but one to three PM always schoolwork. It's really important for listeners to know that. They might think while you're just completely driven consumed by school, but you're involved in other activities. Can you tell me a little bit of those things? Are Yes sure I'm in the Strana me club I do debate team Let's say what's taking up most of my time I am also trying to learn piano It's getting there. I could play chopsticks. What else I like to go for runs and? Generally. I like to socialize to. Surprise like you could do work at like people think that you know. It's schoolwork takes up a lot of time but if you really focus you can. Have the really live best college experience possible. I couldn't agree more. I have fairly young children's even though I told you sixty two. I started very late in life and I have a ten year old and a twelve year old and I spend a lot of time talking to them about building the kind of routine. You're talking about that. You don't have to spend your whole day during your schoolwork but once you get it done, it gives you a license then to really have fun because there's nothing like an anchor around your neck of having worked on done and realizing, Oh, I gotta do it. You can't really have fun because it's always nagging at the back of your head. Definitely. Once I get done with the work session I find that the underlying noise of. The rest of the world just dims down and you're really having that clarity to. Enjoy your time. In this going back to the notion you said earlier about how you saw your own procrastination lack of self respect. You know when you began to tell me about your grades and you start with your lowest grade, you could. There's a real sense of accomplishment and self respect doing that because you know you've earned that comes full circle to there's no better feeling than than than having accomplished your goals. Yeah and it's very much A. Thing with your personality, I would say that like you being able to see yourself as a person who is able to achieve you WANNA do That's huge. Now, let's just get to focus just a little bit more on that period from one to three because I know there'll be people that will say, I could do that. But then one o'clock will come and they might go to a quiet space like you have now in the library to talk to me or they go to the desk. But then they feel like I don't WanNa do this. I. Don't feel like it and their whole body is just itching to run away. What do you do to maintain that discipline before it becomes more of a habit? Oh Okay Yeah. I was actually thinking pretty deeply about this a week ago. Don't get me wrong like it's still very hard for me to do the work despite my success as we've mentioned before I, get tremendous bouts of anxiety if I if I start thinking too hard but what's helped me the most is when I feel like quitting. I I take a deep breath and I have all my technology turned off I usually put down my laptop, turn off my phone and then just. Kind of let things -iety film me for a little bit and then. Take a few deep breaths and then. Go back to work usually what I used to high school which. Now I know is a huge detriment was when I saw feeling like doing the work. I go to my phone. that's a huge mistake because once you go onto your phone or log onto like a distracting website, you'll just go down the rabbit hole. Now if I feel like it, the work is unbearable I turn off my technology, take a few deep breaths and really get back to work. I realized that when I'm taking those deep breaths, there's nothing you know dangerous about the situation near huge or catastrophic it's you know it's just my motivation waning and it will come back to me later just as long as I keep doing the work. Beautiful. Beautiful summary. You know that a practice of breathing to both relax and then to send to yourself is crucial and I think that a gift to all our listeners to have such a concrete practical strategy to two parts to that one was your shut things off and the other was then you focus on your breathing. To dwell a bit in the anxiety but also just to let go and and and realize that. Yeah. As you say, there's nothing that's GonNa threaten you hear. That so powerful and I really liked the way you said, if you go to the phone, which is could be a habitual response you're going down the rabbit hole there's really no escape from that once you there. So you've drawn a bright line as the philosophers would say, they'll have to shut this off because I know how distracting it is in that and that such a bad place for me to be. So you have a rule where you shut your technology off for those two hours while you're working on your stuff. Yeah if we requires me to use my laptop than I, keep working on the laptop if I feel like stopping or the urge to stop gets too strong than just off the laptop and start writing. On. My notebook then I'll just type it into laptop or whatever. Do, you use rewards in any way do do you reward yourself for staying on task scores? It really just the Schmitz. itself that rewards. I'm always get. Really excited thinking of when I'm done with my work. Then I'll usually watch a movie afterwards or watch TV show like right after the I don't reward myself during the work itself. No but then that is the reward that when you're done, you do other things joy like the show or socializing or getting back on technology. So again there you show that healthy balance of to adopt these habits to achieve your goal doesn't mean that you become some sort of strange nerd. Your cash very, very much committed to being a whole person. I have a couple of dogs that are excited for some reason I. Don't know if. My Lab. Thanks to tell everybody. There's someone in the driveway. So I'm sorry. Sorry if listeners can hear that as well. Nelson I can't thank you enough for reaching out to me as an author. It means a great deal because halftime wonder if time taken makes a difference in fact, I've been away from my podcast for a long time. And when. I received your email I thought yet I talk to you because it was obvious that made a difference too in the sense that you'd stop and reach out to someone you don't know just to say thank you and that's a very kind thing to do a lot of people think all you must hear this all the time. In fact, you know we don't It's like being teacher or anything that. You kind of taken for granted in that respect. So it put a bit of fuel. In my tank or use another metaphor a little bit of. Wind under my wings and so I really did want to chat and mostly I wanted to chat because I am three times older than you and. I think that many young people need to hear of the success that someone's like you had in terms of developing these new habits and. The really masters vocabulary around these things like scaffolding. and. We don't do projects do actions and using a mindfulness techniques like breathing both to relax and to. Live with your anxiety. Very powerful. Is. Is there anything else you'd like to add to that for listeners. I guess as a final statement, I would just like to say thank you so much to people like you and your fellow researchers, your work have been. Incredibly helpful for my life and the things you've been teaching will definitely take on for the years ahead and I'm so grateful for all the work you've done. Thank you. Welcome. It's my pleasure I appreciate those kind words and I'm sure my colleagues who listen to these podcasts full appreciate that as well can't thank you. So wish you continued success and when you get a chance me line and tell me how things you will. Thank you so much. Again Nelson Take Care. As good a be the day. Things away. With us. Lots. To. Win. The. Ads. How Teams after these. The. Win. A new venture. Cafe. Also. Back. Komo. News. Now Subject.
Cyrus Stearns: Translating for the Great Sakya Masters
"<music> this wisdom podcast the only ask yourself for so much but if you're the interpreter for someone than year there for most everything he teaches. That's that's it. You're around people who aren't tibetans from personal advice to you know all kinds of everything the whole range family problems all the way up through. How do you do this. She olga welcome the wisdom podcast. I'm daniel ache and for this episode. I traveled to we'd be island off the coast of washington state to speak with sarah stones independent independent scholar and translator in the tibetan buddhist tradition cyrus is the author of several books including taking the result is the path court teachings of the succulent andrey tradition cyrus has had the rare opportunity of working in an intimate context with some of the greatest masters in the soccer tradition in this rich conversation he says amazing stories about about his experiences working with both dish room ajay and chugging treat nba j in india and nepal he compares the individual teaching styles and explains how most of what he learned about his own practice took place simply observing their wisdom and compassion behind the scenes lastly cyrus reviews the basic structure of the laundry which which is a fundamental system of teaching and practicing the tradition and includes a touching story about how he received these teachings which have guided. He's career for decades. I hope you enjoy join the conversation so you mentioned before you had an interest in ancient asian civilizations and what particularly drew you to buddhism was living that it was a living tradition and <hes> and that sort of sparked a new a impetus to go and study this in at university level and so can you tell us a little bit about that the you know what what it was like to encounter this ancient ancient culture that was still alive and in america of all places yeah. That's very interesting. That's an interesting way to begin that <hes> my interests in ancient civilizations. Ah in particular was from very early. I think i was just struck by probably what everyone is early on with the architecture and the monuments and all the incredible aren't that kind of thing and then becoming aware that what really was behind that was beliefs of some kind of a spiritual virtual nature philosophy so forth and particularly getting interested in egypt and greece and <hes> and taking it from narrative asia over the years then i became aware that most of these traditions were not really thriving done alive the some of them were very few were and i didn't feel like what was present in american culture particularly was and so <hes> and after much reading many books in years going by pretty much it narrowed down to buddhism and then i was aware i became aware to reading reading books like <hes> those of karma c._c. Channels miller rapa songs and the life of miller pine ovens wins and later hunter's works on kagyu tradition and other traditions that it was alive because of the various <hes> tibetan lamas were mentioned in those folks that these people had translators and scholars had worked with was there was a buddhism in general like will you exploring zana's well or was it to ben buddhism in <hes> specifically from the beginning there for you know i read about everything i think probably i just i can't remember specifically but i'm sure i started with early buddhism in and then worked my way up but again it was sort of what really was alive and striking to me was when when i became in contact with the books about buddhism and those <hes> those made me think that that was that was what i would really like to focus on and then it became very clear that just wasn't enough and in particular if you didn't know the original languages you're relying on. You know you become very very quickly. You start to see how different different books are the translators in their takes on things. Special teams like evans wins his this herbert duntar so you have to learn the languages so i was when i first went to university. I studied chinese disclose the only act to study where i was which was the university of alabama and <hes> when i wanted to do graduate work then i wanted to find somewhere to study to baton and in sanskrit and <hes> i applied very different places and got turned on everywhere except the nearest who washington in seattle where some of the best people all were it was the right place and also i was aware that there were some tibetan lamas here and there weren't many in this country that religion was here talk you dr mitchell was here and there was a tibetan community here and so that was perfect and that's what that's what i started off to do in nineteen seventy-three. They was clear for you. Back then that language was necessary as a pathway to connect with living tradition exactly otherwise yes i mean had to be and then of course there's no internet. There's no you know gigantic amount of materials to learn these languages as there has now that wasn't there when i started to say about there was a dictionary and there was a threat chandra dawson's dictionary that was just a tiny little grammar moravian minister mich- missionary from the nineteenth century and all that or maybe it was that that was it pretty much and so the resources were limited. I mean there were some other things but those were the best. I wrote down so you're inspired by these books but day inspired you to go in search of something closer to the tradition tradition actually yes so when i got the university of washington than i was able to study classical tibetan with tara wiley in buddhist philosophy tweet with david c four drew egg and colloquial tibetan with gushing eleanor simultaneously and then a couple of months after i got here. I finally met madejski majority. We just ended up. He was living a few blocks from where i lived in an apartment and so i could actually walk to his house he was living there with his brother and sister and then everything changes so i do remember when the first meeting with potato very much so oh yeah i've never met any. I never met too many asian person. I don't take before even you. You know i mean i'd certainly seen seen people from all parts of the world. I never known anyone and his brother. Dr turns on answered the door that was the first tobacco nice spoke to and he was he was wonderful. He was hilarious guy who has an excellent doctor but he was a real character character and then you came in dejean registering their new living room and i didn't speak about that all and david jackson had arrange things and was there to to interpret and helped me as he did for many people he was the one who really knew to baton well enough talk point to <hes> to translate at all in in seattle and so it went from there yeah i i i could hardly look deja <unk> as i recall sitting on the floor. Maybe she just kinda overwhelmed. He'll bring welcomed. The presence was just so <hes> graceful and peaceful to memory. You asked him no doubt. I know that i quite quite quickly. I took refuge wells and buddies bowels from him. That's what happened very quickly and then they'll work. Mini's there was no dharma group there. There was nothing like that you would just you know just you could just go see him in his home ansett with him and talk to him and you know <hes> slowly there were a a few more people came together where there was half a dozen or so people and none remedy suggested that we start meeting regularly early and he suggested thursday evenings and he taught us how to talk to small group how to <hes> practice <hes> <hes> meditation he gave initiation to all of those first empowerment of <hes> <unk> agendas e in the tradition of tonton alpo <hes> and so that's how my interest in onto alpo began of course i'd never even heard of him before and then some thirty more than thirty years later i finally managed to publish a book translating his powder which was one of deja images favorite books into button that that biography i found it one of the most inspiring tax that he that he knew and then bit later more and more people started coming and i and expanded to sunday mornings also again meeting in his just we're just meeting is living room and they would sometimes be fifteen twenty people and then in that gradually evolved and started on sunday mornings than teaching <hes> another chimpanzee contextual meditation this time by the the great master of the psyche tradition of lower margin control andrew and also happens to be that that's the project come <hes> <hes> set of two books by that same author is what i'm working on right now and finishing on the lump dre his two major works on the laundry and so those interests that still are with me began in those very early days and that that ed socket fusion or a combination of mahamoud draw and <hes> attachment compassion and that was really <unk> his main gene emphasis was compassion and nature of mine kind of thing and so in those contexts the alpo being shumba kagyu and then the other being sock ya then he could also expand and bring in all traditions and all of us how each you know relating them to the same thing the same so so right from the beginning he was teaching you. What really was the center of his damage <unk> kissing in some way yes definitely i know he was he. There was always a mall in his hand. I mean never left when the translator slater israeli earth david with stop speaking you know remember j. smallest are gone and that was the way it always was and his life and i remember in fact seeing on the inside of his left. <hes> a huge callous lau from older was you just can't and it was monies and he just he had made a vow to his taste like burned <unk> to to do at least one hundred million in his lifetime which he did which finished at some point later and like burma his teacher was <hes> something quite fantastic of teaching himself right yes yes he was probably the greatest sockeye yogi and master too late <hes> well not not too late <hes> mid the mid twentieth century for sure and <hes> when dashing remember chan meant. He's teaching <unk> leper jan. Can you tell us about the retreat oh yeah well he was he was in a treat for fifteen years in a sealed up cave and didn't lie down for fifteen years did <hes> if if i recall dementia amounts of <unk> elliot's doings practice. I want to oust asia books to take. He said he didn't take books. He went to meditate. Wow i mean he had the basic lamda tax but he was admitted alumni and i spent thirteen months meditating only on permanence he did for point three million prostration forty-three boom full <unk> million prostration with breath a special prayer to occupant data acting number of time same similar huge numbers of thought fine mondelez million and one point eight million. I think yourself fun something similar for monday and so on. I think this is important for people to hear about these great masters because many people you know. I don't want to do the preliminary practices you know. I want to jump and you see these great masters low. No they would say that. The preliminaries are more profound than the main practice yeah because that's where the change of irritation perspective occurs wow. That's an important point. The change of orientation occurs in the preliminary when it comes out aww that comes out of though he won miss malaysia told many many stories of life premature probably spoke about him more than anyone me and one that i remember quite a few but once he was doing now he was making a lot of butter offering butter lamps may land parties play was doing these practices and he asked his sealed sealed in a cave but he had a there was a hole in the door to have food past actually and his mother would come up and see him. He was a young man and bring bring him supplies occasionally and he kept asking her for more and more butter and at some point. She said she couldn't see liam is in the dark and she said what are you doing. In there. You just getting fat. You're just stuffing yourself with butter what you're supposed to be in there meditating and and then he moved into the light and he was gone and completely wasted away almost because he had not touched any other buttery was burning it all offering labs ups and then she deepen and understood what was going on when he came out of the retreat was the first time deja imaging take not him and he said that it scared the hell out of him because like premature his hair was down to his waist and he's is a monk who was a very very straight mall. Her was down to his waist. His fingernails were cut his hair internals fifteen years and he was. I was at a blue tinge to his skin lab routine. I don't know probably know son. I don't know not wasn't explain but i i do know that. After after the retreat they took the board that he had been doing the frustrations on nailed it over the main shrine and the monastery and it was some the big plant you know is completely gouged out his hands have been a hands and knees body had been sliding the volume post <unk> yeah yeah now amazing and he was still doing a think rimma chase that he is still doing hundred prostration day when he was in his early seventies. I think he passed away. It's seventy two j two man. No no no yeah so desma jay. He's teaching parameter parameter. Taste teachers were of the highest order as well so well yeah i many but in particular jumping control and giant <unk> the the two greatest of the time probably and the out very very <hes> those those were the most important to him. I think for sure because they said that he lacrima jade dreamed about them. Every week. Told me i drink every week for the rest in his life and that i mean yeah he had studied what he had been with them. So of course that's what he acetate <unk> so much of that legacy which is the remain nonsectarian approach to things and in many stories even describing october. They look like yeah so that my giant cans awolowo was was quite large had white hair and something was tallin done with the white mustache and i made me think instantly colorado kenzi kind of match that in those lineages to interesting and they had had great like grandma gina the greatest devotion to one example is with control on the j. coming out of the door when he was waiting outside and a path just to see him at all and i came out and he cleared his throat and its bid on a older and permit iran over and locked the cted off the boulder that was still warm and the felt that he experienced <unk> mind for the next day. It's amazing the devotion devotion and revision devotion uh-huh and it's amazing that this lineage from jamaicans who won't pro jomon cultural <unk> remedied addition <unk> and then to america america. It's wonderful incredible. If it's about it is it's wonderful lineages. The whole thing yeah i mean for transmission has to be intact yeah yeah devotion in the lineage. It's powerful combination yeah essential and i think that <hes> you know and then this is the remai- remai- tradition coming through and with a strong slovakia thread but when you mentioned before dune buggies teaching tennessee which is <hes> <hes> not surprising for sake lama to be teaching. He was teaching <unk> shannon <unk> in combination. Well i mean talk to mahmoud draws. Just the term for you know nature of my issues y'all traditions. I mean i can the laundry. The no the bashi on part of the laundry entree teachings as a three continue the third of which is the resulting continuing up among will draw so i mean it's it's natural done term term issues and you mentioned before digital rimba. Jay was like like he was a genius he had oh yeah absolutely memorized so how many texts and from all different traditions can you tell us a little bit about from very early that that sort of capacity had well. I think think probably he was someone who had you know photographic memory yeah i don't i mean i'm sure he made great efforts to but i think he had that the natural facility i would guess but he could describe things in minute amazing detail from so many years before antibody and he would any new like you mentioned. He knew so many texts by memory. There was a time ms tarnished me to him. It wasn't strange at all many years later later in translating for him epo in west malaysia and he had some sort of had some spare time and he was founded only refounding is monitor the tall monster in nepal and he had come to malaysia to teach and raise funds for that and he during this this break time kind of he suggested suggested to me that he would like to have <hes> in his monastery certain mukalla ritual performed by everyone but the text has been lost in tibet so he wanted to dictate it to me and have me write it down and then <hes> he would proof read it and then they get you know made up in published for everybody to use so he did that and i wrote it down as best i could and then offered back to him to proofread it and he'd you know the whole thing was verse and he he did all the way through the coal phone in the entire memorize everything right now from st to mongol blah and that to me. I was like that too like oh wow but then of course if you think you actually from an early age the body salvatori avatar memorized a probably most of the millet gorbachev memorize that's what he learned to read using in retreat with his uncle from five to eight years old armacost memorize marked-out studied with him saw out on many many many things like that to our times. When he spoke about uh most things he had he had he wasn't looking at books to be able to talk about things. I think if he had looked at them he then had them in his mind so when he's when he's teaching he's not going to book in front of him. He's sort of like oh often he would but then you know he would go off into so many different digression would then come back around and hit the point. Wow you know in those that you would no telling what you would hear doc and this. This must be quite a contrast because for these few years you're going to university and then incoming to see room but jay wright the it was a great contrast so it was <hes>. There was no comparison because i mean very quickly. The only thing i was interested in was him because everything i needed to learn some sounds cr- dropped chinese early fast like i wish i hadn't now but you know i wanted to focus on tibetan. Santa didn't last that long either i maybe how she got a couple of years and then tibetan. I just want to focus on tibetan and then later i came back to university later to get a pitch the unknown i did talk to stay out ship for another five minutes or something but no the now there was no comparison enough to read with the professors was was they were the best around for what they for their subjects but done and you can ask anything. He knew he knew what it meant. There was no guessing. There's no need to think well. It might be those that wish issue canal those. What will you mentioned before you're studying <unk> dome right and then you know you're studying that at a university but then you're going and seeing has the whole thing memorized like that's that's a different little that was oh it's totally diplomats and cowering hollering encounter the living tradition you out. That's all you're always just ashes david jackson. I alone with doctor wyle professional <hes> in his office. I believe it was david who wanted to read suggests it in professional i accepted that and so we read the but right i mean professor while they did not get it and that's no fault. I mean you know it was not easy and <hes> but then we'd it goes to digital imaging he just tell us what men and it was no problem and he didn't need to look at the commentaries or anything you just do it a mini news commentaries all of them and then <hes> and also at that time there's very few tibetan books available published yup and <hes> then we'd go back and tell professor wiley and not go so well. We didn't think we didn't continue to tell him. We're just we were in class but we were really good hours. Chewed up eh well so then you were so you're in a in america hugh dozen room ajay for about this go on for five years before you swing your about five years now and i don't think i don't think he travelled much. During that time later he travelled a good bit. Deja imitate did in america and so there were times when he was gone for a year or two later but yeah he was here all that time in your learning tibetan and you're able to interact with this list quickly then within a few years i was able to to be with him and be absorbing a lot got more conversational two in a couple years well. No it didn't mean you know but i had enough and not being able to to <hes> get better because you know if you're trying to learn language there's kind of you have to get over and then then things can go from me because you've got enough to ask questions and then enough to ask whether that me the what did you say kind of snow and so <hes> <unk> was <unk> being translated to two guys was. Was there a translator for these teams. David jackson is in the early years. Definitely david was always the one that was translated. He was the only one who could hit been to india <hes> <hes> for a year or two before i came to seattle and had just come back thanking fire member and then within a few years he went i forget when he went off to either japan or back to india japan or germany for for further studies university pitched depend on grant so i can't remember if it was a fulbright or whatever and <hes> so then then you know kind of on around then you learn faster too when you're on your own and then digital mitchell went traveling later i guess that's after these years you mentioned but and then during that time the night translated for soccer dr j. for a year to learn a great deal then <hes> you know my tibet and got a lot better too and so and so they knew india as well so can you tell us about what prompted getting tapia actually down yeah my girlfriend at the time marotta kelman's later got married for about we were married for about ten years later we went to india <hes> in conjunction with sake dr mitchell going there and we didn't travel with him all over but we did meet up with him in different places and and <hes> but what initially happened was that what do they say trump to seattle so this is. We're talking seventy eight seventy nine now he had been seattle. I guess it was seventy. Six seventy seven something like that and <hes> he had been one of the teachers of magellan's about and now he was in the west or in america i think for the first time and he came at doctrine <unk> invitation to seattle on stated in the home and so then i was able to meet him for the first time and i had a special interest in tokyo and and so then he's he he did too and it was supposed to be was roy nation of the tens as our and <hes> so i had i had the time with him in particular doctrine which was exceptionally kind and requesting cancer imaging it to give the great initiation of entre tradition in his small shrine room in his home and so can dear mitch by gave out over a couple of days in a lot and then some transmissions of laundry and that sorta again that opens up a lot of permissions once you have that in the cycle tuition vision that particular in the she asian and told later to your question when i first went to india done <hes> deja immature coach we wanted to request the the circus special socket teachings of basra guinea narrow ketchum narc atari force. There's a seven-day hyundai teaching one of the most important practices in this hockey tradition and for that you need to receive great read initiation great empowerment particularly chocolate bar or or via maruta had not received out and asia would not give it because he didn't give such things he would give great initiations or oems because he said that he understood what it meant to do that and he wasn't going to do it because of the samaya and the seriousness of between students and master grew and he also because i mean he didn't also much of their materials. Perhaps weren't easily available to him. It could have if he had one yeah station which is shaking j._v. anything but they certainly could and when he had into bed before but in any case he said us to joke german-czech lumbini and so we went to <hes> <hes> we went to india and i was able to see kensington bettega done in india and then to the policy after and you're like this was like adama face 'cause <unk> say jay was giving the the <hes> mentioned territory. Yes i mentioned that to you before you yeah. He was well. Actually he was on his way to giving it and he was he. It was staying in jane smith house in new delhi. Industrial joe is staying there with him and <hes> as an aside not enough you want on the tape but you're connected with b._d._r. See right so. Did you see that photo that was sent out out some time back. Maybe a month ago on it was a photo of thing you prince jensen beach and gene smith and so forth and and and dr mitchell was standing there with him at the voter but jansen they didn't know who it was. They didn't say there was actually which are they miss. Whoever was saying tom tom llamas in kansas smith but it's like you off studying there holding his hand all so so when when <hes> so we came to jeans house and met him for the first time and spent some time there medal people everyone came to jason's house in connection with you know dependent studies and and because he is publishing books you know he's getting the bengals published for the library of congress and that way they were getting universities like the one in seattle and that was hugely important and so <hes> i asked him immature when when a minute again jane smith house. I asked him if he would. I knew that in the in that collection shen their engine territory there was a collection of taunton gal pos <hes> mind treasure teachings that has gone tear that are are actually gonna tear up giant kinsey wall so the idea is that it was planted in his memory in his mind stream long ago and arose again in bhutan gakuin and arose again a that point in the nineteenth century anyway. I asked for that <hes> i didn't ask for i said i'd really like to relate to come for that. Which is part of this giant collection and we didn't go for the whole question. It's five months long. I think it was but the first section is the alum lemme core which is a a section of the particular we could come for that or or most of that and that was about five weeks. I think that we were there but anyway. I asked if he would give that and i didn't know anything about the structure of the system <hes> and he said yes. I'll give it probably asked. Could i come and receive it and he said yes. You and i'll give it today. After you come i had asked them. We give it as you know. Given the day off to you comes not knowing anything. I just you know we wandered around for awhile hung out in new delhi i think jean smith got a an old original block print from rio che of doing altos biography interview which was not available anywhere i had these things had never been published and actually that one disappeared later and never get get it back but i copied donovan and then we eventually went up to clements where he was giving them instant and arrived very late one night and just sort of sleeping garage where we're actually it was one of those indian shop to the you know the metal doors that go down. We got there soleil. There's no hotels and come out a little place but there was some restaurant open and somebody thought shop and opened it up for us and we could. There's one indian rope bed in her. Having nothing else austin country for like a garage and then the next morning went into to try to find the monastery founded and then i saw a win win and i might what was going on and then came to realize that the entire structure of the of the territory was fixed and everything was given a certain order order daily that was not like you know there was just all fix way in advance <hes> he's just going by volume through it and they they would post every day what was going to be given and so there was a piece of paper posted on the side of the beside the door and <hes> so he went up we looked at it and there was the tunnel was being given that day day after you turnaround remember. James said that he we had no idea were coming. We had no idea we were coming and there was. I mean he didn't even if hewitt ask him what day that was in the i mean you know it wasn't it was just somewhere out there. Yeah i was going to happen but anyway amazing so what was was really amazing was for a while well. I mean it's just blown away. No he was so joel berry kind. He took he took an interest and my interest was wonderful and then when we laughed like five weeks later he <hes> you know we had to catch a train at a certain time of the day and there was no option and so he couldn't save the entire <hes> empowerment armor initiation that day which i recall was ronaldo's towards the poor guy and <hes> he would give the main insight or the preliminary section of initiations in the morning and then the main section of missions in the afternoon and he so we could stay for the morning we couldn't take for the main section had to catch the train and so we went up a break and said to him that you know unfortunately we had to leave now on. I said i would really like to receive the main section but i just i can't so he reached over and he picked up the ritual vase. That's used just for the poor little safran water in your hand and he dumped it on my head tops. You got it and also. I just realized that's that's what the all the ritual everything is just for that mhm. It's just for the for the blessing of someone like out of a grew really has all those qualities and that's it. I mean you no. It doesn't have to be all of that. You know it's it's just that i mean that's one of the best she's ever got on elaborated headed and i think that's like this rituals the support for the blessing so yeah exactly the support the ritual what a great lesson as well that was a blessing right <hes> pity fortunate <unk> jay my gosh yeah yeah there were there. Were things like that with <unk> later too numbers of them. They're odd things that would happen. That would not be really you know causally related to anything else you could spot. Tell us oh well. It's hopping with tell you something like we can we can get but i don't know i mean we basically went to me. Choke your shape of the first time in beanie and he was he was not expecting us and in austin and we had a letter from deja from david jackson had met him before and a bunch of money from you know offerings from seattle the <hes> he was he was like no one i'd ever ever encountered before almost impossible understanding that he serb this speech was so fast and strange but his energy was like was that to entity was fast and strange. It really was his. You've you've made jen's imaging now spend a lotta time with dish room so it's not as if they're all yeah like they're only farrell buddha's but that is not everyone is different. It's different. Everyone is different. People these fully rounded people you know with hysterical laughter going on irritations you know client and create compassionate thing the whole ranges display with him <hes> he was giving the mustang royal family was there and some other high lamas and a lot of most were there and they were receiving he was giving the the collection of hundred thought in the tub jots. That's <unk> that went on for some couple weeks. Still i think and we came with that request to if he would bestow the chocolate some borrow the great empowerment initiation of charleston bar and immediately greeted the hot and he said i'll do it when this finished and then that's and then he did and so we were there for a couple of weeks before i and i think it was and sort got to know people you know got to know the situation. There's nothing in the mini. There's there's the show the the pillar that a shoka built to erected to mark where the buddha was born in three hundred and something b._c. And show and <hes> and there's a time there was a tiny little temple. It's totally different now and then remember how to modest very had built a monastery there and there was a tie guesthouse and very little else a little little tiny village which was obliterated much much later to build more more stuff but it was a very special and highly replaced <hes> if i love to say that the mini was the most holy of the for grade pilgrimage sites because if he hadn't been born the rest wouldn't have happened he wanted to see built as much as monetary there and stayed there often and then you know after he gave the chocolate borrow which was so wonderful he <hes> really really amazing experience with with him then afterwards twice it someday i'd really like to request asthma the greyhound of empowerment for the initiation. They said oh yeah. I'll do that a few days later he gave up. It's just amazing plants today's of immense intense oh. I don't know what it's amazing because this is not a bossing for some long or something like this is asking him for a great impoundment chuck's about the the impoundment that deshaun remember j. wouldn't pass on because he realized the the import the relationship you'll creating with the student garage that he says to him you're mitchell and then he he really but then all imagine the other big tundra right like someday. I would love to see my love to come back and request from sunday because that's the main slack so they just did that right away. Incredible unclog yogi it wasn't crud elias and so then we julia trajan remember chafe at some time or we were there for about. I think it was about five weeks five weeks. So would you go back to the states. Then yeah we're about to states sure a couple of years and stayed in touch with <hes> with him by letter i could write clumsy letters and tibetan and many would reply or sometimes even he'd just right then send pictures and things like that but you would become his translator later yeah well deja jayme move to nepal in nineteen eighty one. I believe it was yes. I think it was and so aw followed him and went there also deja image as there and then also took premature is there and i think she was there as well l. He built a monastery there soon all in bodo and both not maybe wasn't there yet. I'm not i don't remember with those three teaches which is that you and i never had the time and with that i had with the other two you know i you received a lot of teachings and transmissions from him in great wonderful ways but it was deja majo- pyramid j. that i it was able to really have much more of a personal relationship and that was largely maybe because i was able to become their translators i for years at different times and y'all it was it was quite it was fantastic and the <hes> i guess it was late nineteen eighty-one than choke you decide to go to malaysian singapore got invited to go to malaysia singapore and through a series of coincidences kind of he asked me to go as his interpreter and of course you know i couldn't say no mhm but i also could hardly on i mean he's hard hard hard to understand for everybody even some even to batons head interpreters between them for him eh sometimes because of his rapid speech and kind of slurring maybe also had dentures that was off that was difficult would slip sometimes thing and and then also he was different than deja. Jay was extremely <hes> <hes> organized and very very eloquent and i was used to his dialect is from east about from com took him china's central tibet whilst developed and so that's very different also and in particular to mature would tend to hop around in his topping acting matter allowed and you had to really be able to be but droit on your toes you because he would even start something and then hop to the end because he figured you should should know in in what a waste time with it kind of that was impact feelings. I often had and he was doing a lot in that. He was transmitting a lot that was not verbal you very much through his mastery of gazes and and things like without but <hes> when we went to singapore it was you trump and his <hes> his assistant long-due wonderful man myself and this was the first time you've been out of the indian subcontinent i think i think he'd been to sri lanka lanka once for a world buddhist conference or something like that but this is the first time so we when he came to this singapore airport. This is the first time he'd seen such a place because that's like l. A. or you know or london. It's a modern completely. Everything is air conditioned and beautiful chiny clean clean clean it anyway so he was just blissed out. He loved him walking down through a niece look all around and just taking it all in and exclaiming claiming all the time and we're walking one of those long quarters that leads into the airport from the from the from the gates. It's and i spotted one of those. What is is that the conveyor belt moving things that you can stand on and not have to walk and i realized that they didn't they didn't have any idea what it was up ahead of us and so i leaned behind him and i said to undo that that thing up there at moves and you know if you know you to grab premature his arm an autograph is other arm and you know and so we did that and he looked both of a back and forth between is like we were not because what are we doing grabbing his arm tightly all of a sudden and then his feet hit the conveyor belt office fi fell backwards and we swung him back and forth between us like like a child like to regain his is footing <hes> he was blissed out. Wow i mean you in singapore. You don't have to walk. The ground move is it was just so happy. It was a wonderful to start. The whole trip was early great. They've like amazing. Intimate moments admits that you know this part of allama that you get to see being a translator. Actually you get this sort of behind the scene sort of and absolutely you don't have to be a special person to trans bit interpreter but you you get you get a lot of special social experiences from just being there. You learn a lot in china everything in most much much most of what i picked up up importance was because of that and i would say yes because then you can only ask yourself for so much if but if viewer interpreter for someone than year there for most everything he teaches that's it you're around people who aren't tibetans and so that's that's not say great. Wonderful privilege teachings actually requesting for you as well. It's very cool and imagine you get to see the skillful means of the lamour as well like i cannot believe the same question so many different answers from the lump from personal. Well it vice yeah all everything the whole range family problems all the way up through. How do you do this yoga kind of thing nor the nature of everything everything wow everything comes up and you see it in a different cultural context is very interesting with well translating for him and say malaysia or then later when he came to the east coast of the u._s. and the way that he would like in malaysia and singapore but digital image and looting kendra mitch milestone suggesting for him in those areas he they also said disliked about in the sense of the peoples belief in magic and sorcery. I agree on the spiritual they won't prediction landscape the spiritual topography of the land and all this predictions all so they immediately related to them very very easily yeah and had all to fall back on just regular techniques yeah and so forth and and also i imagine you get to see how much the the lamb actually a giving themselves tool yeah to. The students right trouble with with joe carretero was twenty four hours because he didn't sleep. Would you mean by that. He didn't actually actually didn't sleep and i mean you know i it later in his life. He did an hour to maybe a night but there were the large part of his life. He didn't asleep and i didn't. I heard that about him. The first time i mean i when we got to after he left singapore on that trip for instance and then we went to kuching in sarawak on an east malaysia which is on the on the north end of borneo and <hes> we stayed in joseph links home. He was the main one of the main sponsors bringing remedy there and we had a he was in the master master bedroom and there was sort of a walk in closet on the way into the dream and hit two attendance with him and our two systems too until almost and they <hes> they laid one single mattress in the closet and they would go in shifts rim. Jay was in the main bedroom than the one of the monks would sleep while the other one intended to remedy during the night and then they would shift they would switch back and forth you know during the night and so i realized that what i should to this was i could find out so every morning when i came in to see him to greet him in the morning then i would ask each of those monks say remigius league play with him and it's an area that may know and then i would ask the other mom so did he sleep when you're with. I mean no and so that's it yeah i mean somebody with him all the time and i did that every morning and that at some point i stopped because i was the way what maybe after a week or somehow. I stopped and i asked him several times over the years ears. I asked my how in the world can you do this in not sleep you know yeah and he said well. I trained myself from when i was really young. I got used to land that was that he's gonna use to know sleeping and it was also it affect later. I always have once. I could read tibetan well enough. I uh became really absorbed in the body. If he's in the autobiographies i just love to read those things i'd love stories and when you when you read them you read all kinds of strange strange things about these great masters to be the thirteenth century or fifteenth or whatever and when you're with someone like these mamas that i'm mentioning than you can feel that what's being described in those biographies surreal because you're in it yourself. You're witnessing the same kind of thing down so that for instance <hes> sake of data in the thirteenth century needs he's going to china to mongolia and a great cudgeon master drew picacho young mba who has one of his his disciples but he was one of his main three teachers three or four teachers came to meet him as he was traveling across and he asked him well once you're gone like who can we rely on. Who who can we turn to talk you stood up eddie pulled the curtain aside and his young nephew a future guilt papua sitting there with his eyes and wide open stare fast asleep now sleeping with his eyes wide and and saw penn said you know our families. This is our families like them. And then later i read other control show sure who's sixteenth century master of the sokaia joan kagyu traditions in particular but up everything great model for the remade tradition in fact contrel base much of his his collections cajole choke since firing works he had a he wrote boundaries of to his teachers or more than that but one of his teachers teachers <hes> choke trump who decided to at some point he thought sleep is the basis of ignorance as my won't sleep and then i think it says in the buyer was ten or eleven days he didn't sleep and then finally dozed off something like that you know and reading that then i have no problem. I know that that's real not seeing that you know whereas if you hadn't like oh well you know maybe could story yeah could store and there was another one with the teachers moga city of cajones teacher that one of his teachers saw him sleeping when he was a young boy and and he was also sitting there with his eyes wide open than a stair and his teacher thought okay. This one's gonna be special. What is that sleeping sleeping with the eyes wide open. I have to yeah yeah. I don't know pretty strict base incredible this. This is again meeting the living tradition y'all don't you. Are you know you are with the same type of master's that we read about in the numbers yanni's always yeah. That's that's what made it yeah. That's what made and julia trench joe you trajan which was particularly like seeing mystical way you go into trances and when they taught yeah i seem to amine could probably get y'all get to some of his major our teachings in a few minutes maybe like right then i just thought of something right then when he was still in that same place in a home of joseph thing in in <hes> in kuching in east malaysia one night mentioning that i mentioned that strange strange thing with kinsey remedy jay early on sort of nankai you know what happened there that <hes> in a very hot malaysia you know until there's air conditioners going windows all shut and one night. I was standing outside in the yard or yeah yeah. I think we are out in the yard and jayco perk also there jake goldberg was among that time both the same tibetan name and that he the <hes> an end to malaysians. Were there and we were talking about in our conversation. We were just talking about various. Sorry we talked also about episodes in ripples life the mosit- of reprints the source of alum dre teachings and we were talking about some of those i didn't parts. I think maybe we weren't clear about or some some of the people there were asking about it and <hes> and routier's upstairs in his room window shut air conditioner running two <unk> floors up and we're outside the are and so at some point that'd be finished a conversation i had been for some time for some months <hes> trying adding to get a certain texts from from and he had he himself wrote a very beautiful have ultra sodden the inverse inverse very special tests and and so i kept asking him to borrow his manuscript to you know make a copy offi on it to write it out or two while right out and he kept saying short short time went by and i thought okay here's sort of a break. I'll go try to try to ask about that again. So i walked upstairs went into his room and came into his room walking into that master bedroom he he was sitting there on on on his on the bed going through his giant one of his giant patriots that he always practice stuff in it and as i came up to him <hes> bowed came up to him and then he looked up the twinkly line reached up and handed me that he had written and then he proceeded proceeded to explain all of the points verapaz life that we have been uncertain about talking outside people in malaysia amazing and there's no way could have and again what is pretty strange coincidence amazing anyway a you know leaving. Those numbers are stories. These great wow so does have an effect on you <music> when you walk in you see walkout bedazzled moments of no thought you and then later on no well. I think it's important and nice people to hear those stories right because it's it's inspiring yeah. Oh yeah i mean again in that very there. Were quite a few. I have a lot of memories of that that particular trip. Maybe it's the first time that i was like what was the first i i traveled with him. I did quite a bit later but that was the first time and then it was intense because with all the time yeah that was going on for you know a month author so a month or more can't remember monte six weeks something like taught in singapore relation and like one time he gave a gave a lot of the experts <unk> specialties <unk> guinea seven-day teachings and blessings for for various others among some of the teachings out of thirteen golden <unk> particularly gun putty or are a <hes> so deacon ash in the non buddhist traditions has called putty or talk. That's one of them and the particularly for prosperity for destroying obstacles belsen also particularly for prosperity wealth <unk> also and <hes> he gave that which is very it's not so easy to receive to get and you know he gave that and then that blessing without initiation and then he went upstairs to his room and i came up there with <hes> and two of the main officials in the center <hes> came up also wanted to speak with him and i don't wanna say anybody's lady's name embarrass anyone for in the story but they came up in the house that they kneel down from when i sit on the floor on and chase settling in this is bad and they asked him and i translated if he would please just something for some for prosperity and he was like so i repeated he's looking at danny look at me completely bewildered look three or four times back and forth and finally he looked at them and he just paused and then he just exploded out of his mouth and just you know aw and his dentures came out of his mouth and hit one of the men right in the center was four hundred across there was a stunned stunned silence not exactly for maybe two or three seconds and then roommate fell over on his side howling with laughter and tears running and i also fell over my head highly laughter tears and the fellows were they scramble around his dentures offered offered them back to <hes> that that was you know he didn't say anything. More didn't reply looking me. A lot with some kind of penetrate looks like did you get the code of what it was. It was quite a quite a moment. Oh that's amazing. Who's virtual. You wouldn't forget that that little lab sounds good. I'm wondering if you get a sense of being so close you know being the interpreter would treat and remember change you get a sense of the yogis daily life was a there was a some sort of rhythm to it is with him him. He's meditating all night long yeah of course meditating lays <unk> because he's busy all day yeah but he's got. He had approximately eight hours today meditation practice to do so. He's probably know that game was eight hours. Yeah they do daily. He's commitment is that we will yeah yeah all commitments <unk> that's what he did in their necessarily commitments because he had to he had to maintain a lot of transmissions in order to be able to teach them. I mean i remember one time in singapore where he got very upset because he was being pressured to come out and and give a chocolate bar great empowerment this was later became later like now five years later. I went with him and he very upset because he was taking time. Everybody's waiting out you know out from hundreds of people were waiting but he wasn't coming out of his room when people are getting impatient and he got very upset because this and finally was like saying i have to do this now otherwise i won't what if i break something abraham we'll be able to offer his holiness. What what happens then aw i ain't got very upset but then finding oh he got left alone or any finish niki mountain gave the great empowerment for today's but though he had great <unk> remember later one time at some point. He told me that like when he was home in boda in in his room up at the top of the moisture right across from the stupa there was a balcony out from his room is that he would go out there every every night about three in the morning and do all of the tool core of the <hes> the yoga practices for the lung drain which are basically the same as for the six years of neuropathy shows the neekam wow so that's what you do at three a._m. Yeah he liked it out there in front of the stupa and his quiet nothing but that's what you mean <unk> also. He did his practice like hey washroom. So forth was like you said. I was about to two in the morning. I think you told me middle the night he said that's when the teens gather even later like when he talked <hes> another thing that was kind of strange was memory when he taught college chocolate later which maybe we'll have time to discuss say something about briefly. He taught at three times and he <hes> you know he gave it. The first time in and remember gave the first time in in boda and then later he in the paula and later gave it in cambridge in boston austin and then he gave it in kuching in malaysia and the second time he gave it in boston was incredible coincidence that he gave on my birthday. The first day of the great initiation was you know what my birthday and also also i don't. I don't know if he set the date himself or if he has just in the schedule. I don't know but anyway that was really not was very nice and then the next year when he gave it in kuching he gave on my birthday taylor which i have not told them i might have to tell him river jay. This is my certainly the second time. I can't remember if it was the first time but you know i don't. I can't imagine that he liked purposely. Did it somehow unlike like those other things strange things i mentioned. I don't know there's any deliberate thing being done there might be. I don't know but it was. It was very nice. The thing is what you learn is being around. These remember chains in high llamas as they operate in on the patents yeah very very much yes well. I mean the dri teachings in particular occupancy to said the really the main in strange ways. This is where the <unk> pod is presented in the most profound way anywhere in buddhism because the whole that's what it's based on has like you know outer inner secret real and ultimate translate them. There's like five levels of it and then you come to see the outer all the way down to how the you know the channels and wins and elements in the body and moving around all of that is linked. That's in the laundry and so if you're a masterplan andrei you can do a lot of strange things through stop the <music> stopping certain and the college teachers out of microcosm microcosm his thing is these as masters of masters of that actually yeah definitely definitely there was one there was another strange like a strange interesting thing with rimba chain and the same place still in kuching <hes> when it one day we went out somewhere. I remember where it was like some temple. I think somewhere yeah i was. I believe it will now remember was tupperware. He gave some empowerment initiation and then afterwards he went. I think he went back into a back room and people would come in to see him. You know for blessing traffic and <hes> one one family brought one man in to see him and this man was causing a lot of trouble he was acting really weird and and being drunk all the time and you know i don't know if he was beating his wife or what but he was damaging his family on on this and his life and they asked him ajay to do something to give him a blessing to do something to help to help the family and so he listened very translatable does any listen very carefully to it and took very seriously and he said okay you want you sure you want me to do something and they any ask them several times time over and over so you sure you want me to me i can do something you want me to just like us you know and so he reached under his robe and he pulled out of poor guy and he had a very special that he carried with him a cloth special container with cloth belt that he wore and this poor had actually belong to pumice imbaba too immature and one of the early it could masters of the sock your family. His name was couldn't luong or russia. He was one of the twenty five th grade disciples of uh-huh about he's one of the first seven men or ordained as monks in tibet along so this is like you know what eight eight nine th century st century so mealy thus a twelve hundred years ago or something and pumps about had given him that poor poor have been passed down in the subject coen family tom for twelve hundred years then when choke your machado offer to psyche chins in transmission of the entire uday kundu collection which is a compendium of about i think about one hundred volumes of all the traditional a major empowerment major initiation took two years to give it to him. He came paintings came twice to rush to and that was the offering that toyin instead made two or one of them one of them and i think i have off right that is the who is i'm pretty sure as i remember and so he took that out and he made sure again they want him to do something and and so then you begin to do a lot of prayers and a lot of mantras and then he leaned for aircraft the portland jerry so warn wasn't terribly long maybe six inches heavy metal and he suddenly leaned forward a whack on it's hard as he could not amount no demand ganges awhile and then he began to he gave a lot of advice the family on how to deal with him when he regained consciousness justice and drew him out it took him away and then later you know later i asked about him. Yes you know because i i can't remember specifically when i saw someone who knew they said yeah. The guy completely change yeah. He stopped drinking. He stopped stopped having the problems acting radic having none of that at all wow somehow had interrupted disrupted something other than different type of blessing. That's why he was asked you so over and over. I sure helpful yogi powerful subject and then i'm sure. Are you sure it's very strange later when he went to i went to <hes> came to america with thomas. His translator years later and it came to boston. When we came to heathrow airport in london they would not let the poor ball around his belt. I know but he's under is of course the metal detector yeah. That's what it was dagger. They wouldn't let him take it on the plane and so they they said well. You'll have to give it to us and we will carefully. You know. Keep it on the airplane. We'll give it back to you when you get to boston so you know i didn't like the idea didn't like the the idea but what to do and so he did that and then we came into boston completely forgot about i i completely got and <hes> because in you know getting they're going to customs first time in america and <hes>. We were very exhausted. We'd come from new delhi all the way to boston <music> without a layover and then we got the luggage and we were leaving the the luggage the baggage claim area and i just happened to turn around and look back and coming down the conveyor belt the baggage belt was dealt with that with that core band and i ran ran back and got it and kent ran ran caught rummaging before he got to the door and offered it to him and he was like you know and then you know took put put maybe you would found the self stories well in a way you boy so this this another aspect of this river chases that they have these tools these tools. I burkle twenty. I mean he didn't really react it was funny to he was sometimes <hes> sometimes get very very seemingly very very upset about tiny tiny little things and then big serious. Things happened no reaction at all. No reaction role nothing. I want to bake thing that e. I have not well something like that and he's trying to but you know i mean like you could easily have gotten really truly out of this object that was twelve hundred also kind of a big deal but other things i mean i think there was other another time or maybe some i can't remember specifically. There were other things that you had that happened definitely but if there's some little tiny thing was lost. Maybe you'd freak out but if then some big major thing happened. Maybe even somebody died. Many we go through the appearances of this slide. Fade appearances of the next one arrives insane someone they knew well he was praying and thinking of the middle out but it was big insight into williams perspective yeah so i want to hear about <hes> so he offered he was a teacher to he's holding down on miami. He's only treason sock attrition now. Yes yes so mostly to to psychiatry yeah but to his holiness the dalai lama he also oh offered a lot of teachings including the lump dray later okay. Maybe you can speak l. Audiences would be from all different traditions editions. Maybe can speak to the you know what the lump drake is because we've mentioned it a few times and <hes> just generally what what what's it teaching general very generally. It's the it's the fundamental system of theory and practice in the tradition and it's based on hey voucher tantrum and the other two explanatory tantrums as through tundra the putin the punter and it's but it's it's it's not <hes> those are the scriptures <hes> but then it's actually the laundry itself is a very tiny tech. I spy musset of the rupa that was never written down in indiana was passed down orally for many generations until the time of -secutive sorry of such ching-kuo ningbo. That was the first time i got written down when he wrote commentaries. Which is you know several hundred years it was totally oral but it is <hes> <hes> very complex and vast like i said that i that was the texas just out as the root taxed the basic tax based on those temperatures and visions and so forth <unk> was passed to veerappa by veteran nahra mia visit concert behavior and <hes> <hes> then it has expanded over the centuries <unk> allows years into a giant collection of some forty five five large volumes now explaining all the various practices and so forth related to it but basically when it's taught the there's basically two sections the first one is covers all the mayan subjects you know refuge and and but it all all the practices from the marie practices and and developing compassion shawmut other passionate calming the mind developing insight and so on all of these and <unk> call the three appearances that is for ordinary people for yoga and four buddhas and these <hes> then there is a break in the teachings when it's given on the teacher does the retreat on entre and then he gives a great empowerment initiation for asia and then the tantric sections are talk which is the second main part of the system and that's called three continual which are the ali our the causal continua of the mind and then the path which is the method continue the body leaving the method and the resultant continue of mama draw result and so this is that's the basics and then there's a lot comes comes out of that but it's the most important in the sock you trish once said to me you know if you do the <unk> daily or sock tipoff off you don't you're not just just as a basic sort of definition traditional one yeah i mean there's many many people now. I'm sure probably thus gaining. Maybe don't do that kind of thing but that was what he said and it's right that <hes> doesn't important. I'm keeping connection with the dom through daily practice spike yeah no. It's absolutely essential in it's not i don't know how much i should explain but it is very you cannot you should be doing at least twice a day actually and otherwise you'll you'll break some things that need to be explained. These masters you around with doing the four times a day. Four times i mean in very europe is is texas has four times a day but then that is if you want to become like him. This in this lifetime want to become totally enlightened. That's what's that's what they say and if but to not break it you have to you have to be very careful to do it within a twenty four hour period after the time of when you received the initiation and how wherever how long would be one session like the depends <unk> shortwave. There's a long ways. I mean the main <hes> i i mean it theories. They're like. I said they're short way but it's probably i don't know once you get used to the the basic practice us then. You know maybe half an hour. Maybe an hour depending on what what you're doing but then there are some very short ones also that at least we keep the basic basic i korea and so you you a present when secretary of education gave the lingerie teachings to his horn is stuck attraction right the present <unk>. Joke your invitation <unk>. Yes yeah no that was that was one of the more important events in my life yeah for sure no he <hes> after that malaysia trip that i was talking about actually than limitation went back to to nepal l. and <hes> i ended up going back to india or sorry excuse me to malaysia singapore <hes> <hes> translated for days you're losing jenner and then in that period heard that <hes> and actually my wife went with me dot time to and then became aware that <hes> somehow through the tibetan through the monte i learned that trump is going to give them entree look shay in the laundry tradition there to traditions <unk> in the loop shea luxury it literally means like the expectation advocation explanation for a group like more public and then the lope shades for students for disciples so it's the tarp and the other is doing or pa- although everybody gives both now and originally the show was given in very very small groups in by now it's given at margin firms to larger the group's any way learned that and really really is very difficult to get laundry back then. This is nineteen eighty one eighty two. It was like really really hard. Let's get much more much more frequently and is given in this part of the world. Also you know but back then that was very rare to be able to get and in particular from him and so i wrote him a letter from malaysia from kuching chink in my clumsy tha that letter in his of nepal address and asked to be permitted to receive <music> out if there was any way possible and didn't know nobody knew when it was really so by the time we went back to nepal app tradition. J. finished his travels or the time when i was translating for finished and he took number two left had gone to india and they he'd gone to give it to offer to his holiness. We didn't know if we could get there in time or not but we went and we got there in time and i asked him and he said yes she you may receive it but you should ask his holiness because because he's the one requesting and his holiness very graciously allowed us to to requested and took him she also pulled out my letter and they showed it to me and said that it helped i think he really liked begging to see and i remember years years later. In fact after i received alum dre from joking richon i came back to american and saw days cheney was so happy that i had received achieved. It was saying like you wish fulfilling jewel and i said you know it so it strikes me that it's so complex vast and difficult that i should really just focus only on lingerie and just that and he said no no no said you need to receive teachings and transmissions from <music> all great teachers in any tradition in all traditions and practices and learn those because then perspective that you develop in that way away when brought back to your practice and studying the laundry will enrich it in a way that it's not possible without doing that and so that's really been something i tried find to do you know follow from the non as much as i could and founded to be absolutely correct it come across things in reading texts of other traditions means that <hes> trigger something and you understand. That's what about alumni and then look at it again and you see it differently so i wanted to thank you for your generosity with your time and your stories and thank you for coming on the wisdom podcast. Thank you very much inviting me. I enjoyed it. I hope you enjoyed the conversation. Next on the wisdom podcast i had had the pleasure of speaking with venerable jon rahm celebrated author and teacher in the tera vata buddhist tradition by the time we are mindful of anything so it has been filtered and sometimes exaggerated to fit what we want to see. Oppa section is not law data is already been bent twisted even denied if it challenges us far too deeply by the way it's a now this will is to have such a mind which does not bend the choice. I was saying to someone earlier. There's two types absolutely not well one which badness attribute to fit their face the other benza faith to fit the truth and to be able to have that second one bedding to fit the truth is very difficult. You have to have very strong mind <hes> wage wait suspends know what you want to say well. You don't want to see basically whether side this is actually to suppress the. I five hindrances. We spend the trees to fit what you want to see. Filter out what you find difficult karachi except.
NPR News: 03-28-2020 9AM ET
"Live from NPR news in Washington on jail. Snyder President Trump says trade advisor. Peter Navarro will be the administration's point person for the use of the Defense Production Act in Beers Roscoe. Reports trump used his authority under the law to direct General Motors to comply with the government. Call for ventilators. President trump says the. Us will have hundred thousand additional ventilators and a few months. He did not explain how the US will meet this goal. Which he said is more than three times. What the US produces annually? The administration appears to be shifting. Its hands off approach somewhat. Peter Navarro says the government needs to be involved in the short term to meet the need for the equipment. Trump had resisted calls to invoke the defense production act but used his emergency powers under the law after he accused. Gm of wasting time during the negotiations in a statement. The automaker said its commitment to build. Ventilators has never wavered hospitals in New York City. Meanwhile say they only have enough protective equipment and ventilators to last through the end of this month in Peers Windsor? Johnston reports at the state has become the epicenter the krona virus outbreak in the US hospitals in New York City are nearly filled to capacity with corona virus patients and health officials. Say they're in dire need of more protective gear and medical equipment? Dr Mitchell cats the president and CEO of New York City Health and hospitals tells NPR that in order to keep going they'll need additional medical staff space and ventilators Rideau. That there still are ventilators that are being held as part of the cachet those ventilators as quickly as possible to move to New York City New York Governor Andrew Cuomo estimates. The state will reach the apex of its Corona Virus Hospitalization Curve in twenty one days. Windsor Johnston. Npr News. One thousand bed Navy hospital ship is being sent to New York City today to help relieve hospitals. They're president trump. Planning to be in Norfolk Virginia to see the ship off visit set sail. The navy's other hospital ship is in Los Angeles and is expected to begin taking patients today. Millions of Americans in the Midwest facing another kind of outbreak. Today a severe weather one appears. Amy held reports. Threats include strong wind large hail and tornadoes. Thunderstorms are expected through parts of the country throughout the day forecasters say strong winds spreading into the Mississippi Valley are combining with warm wet air conditions that can create volatile systems known as super cells. Here's Matt Mosier. With the storm. Prediction Center be super cells resulting a threat for severe hazards including tornadoes. Those at risk for tornadoes and large hail include residents of Illinois and Iowa including Chicago. A lesser threat extends as Far East as Pennsylvania and as far south as Louisiana. Amy held NPR news. You're listening to NPR news civil rights leader. The Reverend Joseph Lowry has died. He was ninety eight years old. The family says in a statement Larry died late last night and Atlanta of natural causes unrelated to the corona virus. Are we lead the southern Christian Leadership Conference for Twenty Years? He helped found the organisation alongside. Martin Luther King Junior Japan's Prime Minister Shinzo obeys promising intensive government efforts to prevent the spread of cove nineteen. Npr's Anthony Kuhn reports from Seoul. Japan currently has about twenty two hundred cases. Ave told a press conference that he's not declaring a national emergency just yet but that the country is on the brink Japan is not seen in explosive growth in cases yet but some experts warn. It's coming in that. Not Enough. People have been tested. Tokyo saw around sixty new cases Saturday. The biggest increase so far to counter the pandemics economic effects ave promised cash handouts to households and a stronger stimulus package than the one following the two thousand and eight global financial crisis. He warned citizens to avoid unnecessary travel and to prepare for a lengthy battle against the virus. Anthony Kuhn NPR news soul the Chinese city. Where the corona virus outbreak was first attacked. It began emerging from a two month locked down today. Authorities had stopped people from entering or leaving the city in central China families were combined to their homes and only essential services were allowed to operate but new infections have fallen sharply in recent weeks as reported cases and other countries rise. Us now has the most. I'm Joe Snyder NPR news.
BrainStuff Classics: Are Pop Rocks Dangerous?
"Today's episode is brought to you by homeadvisor. Finding the right pros for home. Projects can be tough and spark a lot of questions. Like how do I find a pro who can help. Will they do a good job job. Will I get a fair price. That's homeadvisor can help from. Leaky Faucets to major remodels homeadvisor connects you to the right pro for the job in seconds and even helped you get a fair price. Read reviews check project. Cost Guides and book appointments go to Homeadvisor DOT COM or download. The free homeadvisor APP. And Start Your next project at had. IBM problems inspire us to push the world forward. That's why so many people work with us on everything from city traffic to ocean. Plastic smart loves problems. IBM Em. Let's put smart to work visit. IBM DOT com slash. SMART to learn more. Come to brain stuff. Production of iheartradio. Hey rain stuff. Lord Volk Bob here with another classic episode from our erstwhile host Christian Sager. This concerns a classic candy question. What are pop hop rocks. And are they actually dangerous. I'm Christian Sager. And this is brain stuff. There's lots of urban legends about pop rocks candy like they supposedly explode if you eat them with soda and the Kid who played Mikey in those nineteen eighties. Eighty s life cereal commercials died from combining the two. You ever heard those. Neither of them are true. But here's one. That was actually reported in a nineteen in seventy nine issue of Newsweek. A shipment of pop rocks overheated delivery truck in blue. It's doors open. If that's true do how did it happen. And for that matter. How do pop rocks work anyway. We know they are a candy. That you put your mouth triggering carbonation. A tiny burst and a popping sound. They were invented in nineteen fifty. Six by William a Mitchell when he was trying to create instant soda crystals that melted and water. Dr Mitchell was working for general foods at the time but before that he worked in an agricultural experiment station in Lincoln Nebraska. Where get this he. He blew his lab up and it left him with Burns all over most of his body. Yeah it's true. Even after that Disaster Mitchell still formulated a candy with a potentially volatile properties. Here's his basic recipe as it was refined in nineteen eighty. All hard candies are made from a combination of sugar corn Corn Syrup Water and flavoring with pop rocks. You heat these ingredients to dissolve the sugars and additives. Then you boil the mixture evaporating most of the water her at atmospheric pressure. What's left is a pure sugar syrup. Here's where pop rocks. Unique recipe differs from other hard candies before before cooling. The sugary mixture is gasify and combined with carbon dioxide at six hundred pounds per square inch. This takes about two to six minutes. Informs Bubbles in the candy lower temperatures make larger bubbles and produce a better pop when the pressure is released in the candy. Cools it shatters into pieces full of these trapped bubbles of gas when you put a piece of candy in your mouth. It melts and the gas escapes causing short popping sensation. Those pops are the sound of six hundred PSI worth of carbon dioxide being released from each bubble. PSI is a unit of pressure where one pound per square inch of force is exerted before pop rocks. Leave the factory. There examined by testing panel trained to evaluate the popping sensation on a scale from zero to fourteen. Zero represents presents no popping in fourteen represents maximum popping anything lower than a seven is rejected as inadequate ratings between seven into nine generate a satisfactory pop while anything between ten to twelve is considered outstanding. Because they pop louder. But what about the delivery delivery truck in one thousand nine hundred ninety nine where the doors blew open well. pop-rock should be stored at over eighty five degrees Fahrenheit or they'll melt and pop in the package wreckage so the combined release of all that carbon dioxide is what opened the truck's doors all that stuff about soda explosions and Mikey. Dying is just a myth breath though but that didn't stop it from having a major effect on pop rocks reputation. General Foods actually had to arrange a telephone hotline at one in point for anxious parents they even sent Mitchell out on a tour. To debunk the rumors. There's all kinds of variations on the legend. Today's episode was written by Christian and produced by Tyler. Clang Greenstone is production. I heart radio works for more in this month of other popping open topics visit our home. Planet has folks Dot Com and for more podcasts. From iheartradio does the iheartradio APP apple podcasts. Or wherever you listen to your favorite shows at IBM problems. Inspire us to push the world forward. That's why so many people work with us on everything from city traffic to ocean. Plastic smart loves problems. Ibm Let's put smart to work visit. I._B._M. dot com slash smart to learn more.
Episode #1639: The New Phil Hendrie Show
"Phil emery here for the bar fight. Now I don't want to wear this out man but this is what is today. We're one week away from our next bar fight. And we are taking your suggestions at Arfan page which is facebook dot com slash Phil Hendrie Ph a and SS. What are a twitter show page? which is twitter dot com slash Phil Hendrie show? Who Do you want to see throwdown? Inbar fight to there for twenty twenty coming up probably tomorrow or Thursday. We're going to tell you the showdown itself and then you guys can vote and from all of those. His name's we will select a winner of groovy prizes. From armored store you have to have predicted the winner of the fight however okay now last week we had two people right now. We have pads to people calling Barbara and Mike Apples being mike apples. They also fairytale. You know it's like it's a made up name. Mike Apples you out there. Is that you really Mike Apples poop. You know. I don't know it sure. It is a real name. I don't know I think it sounds you know hi. I'm I'm Mike Apples. I've got a bag of apples. We forget it. Yeah so anyway. CHECK US out at those those places specifically for bar fight for next week our second bar fight for twenty twenty. Then we'll call kind of a little bit of a pause and in May and June we'll have our regular quarterfinal semifinal bouts and then our big Bar fight championship in June of coming up this summer. So it'll be a beautiful thing. Join US at Phil Emery. Show DOT com. You can get lots of information on what's happening on the on the show. Also check out emerge store. If you'd like to if you're not a winner you can at least go through our merchant. See what we got for you and of course at our fan page on facebook and twitter our show page. Give us an idea who you WANNA see in bar fight twenty twenty. It'll be happening one week from today. Am I right about that. Yeah on the eighteenth eighteenth February bar fight to for twenty twenty. I'm Margaret Gray. Jesus Christ just jumped. He's I'm General Sean. Now everybody thinks I've sound you. Sound like a chick. Yeah welcome guys to today's show on our show for today which is February the tenth. Scotty I the eleventh of Twenty Twenty you know this is this is exciting. Phil never gets the date right. He butchers up the date. And the name of the show. You have to. You have to pull it together sooner or later I got it together. Don't worry about it. Today is the eleventh of February twenty twenty. We go back a year for encore show from February the eleventh of two thousand nineteen and this one. This is a beautiful thing man. I remember when I thought of doing this show. Oh I immediately laugh at this is GonNa be killer show because we put her together with puppets. Now what could be better than the already dark nature of Herb Seul and little prancing puppets on strings in this one. Herb agrees he agrees to go into. What are you laughing at you work at it agrees to go public television? Puppet show the gets offended by the wise ass plummet. Why would he do that? I don't know I mean I can't wait to hear the show. He agrees to go into public television puppet show but gets offended by the wise as human-like puppets also on the show is going to be Roy. Bisky the former member of the Hershey squirts Ho. How about that all her? She's got frank never stopped talking about this joke. Frank was a big fan was a huge fan of. That's where he grew up. Frank was Komo Franken. You came from Pennsylvania. But you didn't meet 'til you came out to California yes and that's improper grammar. Franken you frank you should have said so you and Frank Okay Nick. So you and frank frank you you and frank all right so you would. Frank met with you to California but you both both native to Pennsylvania. Yes yes I was from Harrisburg and frank marshy teams earth you Hershey's work the Hershey squirts when you singular is it but people. I know where you're going and they know you're looking to jump and okeydoke me ain't GonNa Happen Okay. Great Ain't GonNa Happen Okay. Yeah all right. Everybody befriends friends now. Coming up here Roy. bisky former remember the Hershey squirts hockey team believes the movie. SLAPSHOT was lifted from his from his life. And also professor emory Clayton talks about. Willie Reed the great wheel re who played for the blades. When I was a kid used to watch really a replay and he plays blackhawks really considered by some to be the Jackie Robinson of hockey? So let's check it out. Kickback dig this thing. From one year ago that is February the eleventh of two thousand nineteen. It is our encore show here on the world famous filling ratio famous. Fill every show here on Monday. They'll Pacific seven California. I'm Robert Leonard Margaret Green but did general gail material. That was fast. Now we want the REPENTITI. Were very much into the REPENTITI discuss. Yeah well the repetitive. There we go so so we'll took us like no time at all of the shelves. It's about time to to welcome to the program here on Monday on the world famous fill in be show their livestream. We pulled the name of reg. Go ahead bud. Laugh said pulled we pulled the name of REG Petaluma and he. He is now currently up for the two passes for a senator. You know you know because this show is because we're not flying anybody to California where this kind of dangling these passes passes and we're pulling the names of BS piece of joins us on our chat and who have registered with US end of said. Yeah let me get my name on the map. At least well we have gotten an unnamed would like for instance Jeff County was in South Carolina. Do you have Kennedy's we had a guy. Lit lavar revival whatever ever. The gentleman was in Pennsylvania then we had a cat and in Hong Kong. That was Mike Welsh and now we have reg in Petaluma and this is northern California -fornia so they're just a few hundred miles away so all you have to register. You could hitchhike here. Yes you've been hitchhiking about eight hours. Maybe Philo drive up the freeway and pick you up okay. I'm saying is reg. If you've got the time we've got two passes for you to see to be a part of Ray. St Santa Anita March the thirtieth with a luxury box. We've got tickets for twenty five people all kinds of people there because we're going to be also playing are which is a private poker game and won't be open to the public or anything. This is the Paul all content memorial yet to on our late friend. Paul contents go have our poker game that we are day the racist. It should be a lot of fun to hopefully. We'll have some good weather this weather we've had here in California absolutely brutal is a matter of fact. This rain was coming down. So you know we live in Palos Verdes and there was a moment there when I thought what are we talking about about. Is the deputy ocean going to come in flooded. As a matter of fact I did you know what Pacific storms are like Dickman. You don't live anywhere near one. I live at all high. Yeah what about about it all right. Well nobody's doubting Pacific storms are bad but I didn't hear no. There was no word about Pacific storms overwhelming or subsuming. You know general. What are you looking at me like? I'm some sort of like something that walked out of the Elephant Margaret. Excuse me Margot on. What are you laughing at? Walked out of the acid elephant. I don't know what he's left. I don't even know what the Hell it is you're talking about. I'm saying the winter storms. We have here in California can subsume Ms Grey subsume eardrums again. I suggest you monkey start. Not Listening I'm listening as carefully can while I'm bleeding from the is these winter storms can wreak havoc along the coastal areas. And many of our homeowner's there air. Yes they are multi millionaires. Yes many of them are Hollywood stars Yes. Many of them can afford five six seven homes but still your heart goes out. Ja Ah excuse. Didn't you say you had a conversation with the great the late. Great Henry Gibson yes I did. And don't you start talking smack about Mr Gibson. I'm not you're the one that brought it up. I simply said I was enough. We did a king of the hill. One time when Henry Gibson remember Henry Gibson from laffin great actors in in Nashville. He was in Magnolia Right. Yes he was he was the guy at the bar that was hitting on the bartenders. Henry Gibson did a lot other things and he was on King of the hill with this end he was telling me that he and his wife bought a house in Malibu when he with his laughing money basically when he started laughing and that's where they were ever since then when I talked to him this was in the early two thousands. They'd been living there since the nineteen sixties and they had been through it all man. Well he'd had to sandbags house a couple of times right. I I think they they had to sandbag it. They got they got evacuate in a couple of times. It was but they hung in you know and Stayed there and that's where they were great talking with him in meeting him and he said something to me. I'll never forget. He said the greatest achievement of my life is that my four sons have dinner or lunch with each other once. It's a week that is that's tight family. Also the voice. All four of his sons have lunch with each other once a week. That's the greatest and I thought man that is that is that that is family theory and they had lunch. You said dinner. What's the difference Dickman? Well what is a little more formal. Who gives a shit okay? It's lunch dinner cab Gab. Dinner get dress up. So what if they get dressed up man. I'm usually love each other more one would think. Yeah okay that's all. I'm trying to say. Excuse me for breathing. Excuse me for asking but you know something right now. I don't know whether to kill you or to worship at your feet. You're brilliant and get you keys. Tie wait a minute wait a minute. It's lunch but okay and I'm sure they still love each other a great deal fine he. They're very concerned. Yeah we'll we'll be right back on the show. Today we have emery Clayton professor emory Clayton from Kenyon. College GonNa be with US talking to Roy Bisky. We haven't talked to Roy and so long. Now Roy bisky is one one of the only guys I know one of the few surviving members of the Hershey squirts. That's right we got in touch with writer. Frank did and Roy is in touch with Phil. It's going to be talking to fill about a book that he's written called slap happy. I think the book is called Slapshot. What might have been slapped heavy? What's it called badly slap? Happy slapshot options. I want to know which is it man. Is it slap happy or let me see that off. We're notes ray here. I'll do it the stick your finger in there. Yes you're right there. That's the I got it man slapshot and what might have been by her bisky Roy Bisky Serbs who is going to be onto yacht herbs. Herb Sewell is going to be on her school. Sorry but to do it right here. See I got it man. So Roy Bisky and the herbs I mean Roy. Don't bill percival do okay. Yes Roy Biscuit beyond with Emory Clayton talking about hockey now. What's what's Professor Cleveland? Talking about. Professor Glenn is going to be talking about me. Being inducted into the hall of fame he was the first black player. National Hockey League's. We broke the color line and herbs Herbs GonNa be with US but Emery emery is not gonNA appreciate you mixing it up with her. I did it so emory claims talking. About how William Murray played most of his time in the minors a bunch of stuff. Also we have herbs and Bill Percival and apparently bill percival who ahead a puppet act on public television. Wanted her to be a part of it too. Sort of kind of re- rehabilitate herbs image. A little bit. I don't know if that's a good idea. Well it didn't happen because percival's idea was this puppet act and he works with these puppets does a variety of TV shows. And the puppets are all very adult. They sit around a bar and talk. I mean seriously sleet and Herb Kathy. y'All don't so funny I'm telling you what's funny. Okay so herb sewell. Take it easy I'm herb and Bill Phil did not get together on this puppet show because herb represents talking to a puppet yeah as if it's his equal. Oh Christ I should learn not to be surprised. Anything coming out of that guys. Yeah all right. So that's coming up here on the world. Famous Fillon ratio will be right back. Larry so it's GonNa be right back just said miles turn again with with the weather tonight at Sixteen yes sixteen. That is the new time for miles. Turbine weather used to be on at five PM. Now he's on sixteen. What sixteen sixteen is a time zone in your mind? You can make sixteen anything you want it. You download the weather so you play it at sixteen. That's anytime you want. The weather for miles turn again just downloaded download. Listen to watch it however you consume whether mostly I stand outside at absorbent miles turn again with the weather at sixteen on Channel. Nineteen this is dawn. Bourbon join on our new weatherman miles toward again as understudies Goldie showers in the channel. Nineteen weather department golden showers channel nineteen weather leading the pack for for the last forty six years. Forty Forty eight years twenty twenty eight years. I'm sorry I'm going to kill this man right now. I didn't mean to. Your car deserves the best so why not marry it. I know you drive. I know you wash it. I know you keep it in perfect working order but why not just go ahead and marry it because the guys treat your cars you might as well hi. I'm Dr Mitchell Dr King and I treat all forms of psychosis and schisms associes. If you're seeing things hearing things go worry about it I can help. Who are you good question and welcome back? Everyone in the world famous Henry Show here from the Pacific in Southern California here. Now Phil Hendrick Margaret. Thank you very much. Everybody back to the show here. Row fantas Fillon ratio and filling ratio dot com. Now have Herb Sewell later on. We've got to get got a new William you'll reap emory Clayton emery Clayton and right Bisky and Roy Bisky. I contacted frank because I mentioned UCLA. Frank was a big fan of the Hershey Sports and Roy new this. They've been in touch before no they'd never. They never even spoken. Roy had heard the show and thought well. You know what this is a good time to make my move because this guy's a fan so I'll go ahead and threw him try to get on the Henry show such as it is. Yeah uh-huh I'm I'm sorry filling and talk about the new book that he has coming out. He's hoping the option for a film trying to make it into a movie. Try To have a studio pick it up button making a movie yeah. Let's say that because they don't say it that way but they say two different way. Okay so that's going to be coming up a little bit later right now. We have herb sewell tool on the phone. Here of the real famous Phil Emery show her is in Pasadena. California Herbs Joins US you folks know full disclosure. We cannot tell you where her works or where he lives because he is on parole spent a number of years at forensic hospital. I think people have got it by now philly. It has to legally disclaim all right. Let's find the gun barry. I believe what you're out driving right now. I'm driving it off. Drive it off. And who's interviewing me. Digman William all right. But I'm a little bit sad with percival coming to me and saying you WanNa do a puppet act first of ball as you know that would have to throw off so it after dill about that. This was an adult puppet. Show right. Yes this guy percival heard me on Phil show talk that I would make for a good foil in his puppet show and I was interested because I believe that From my frequent appearances on your program Then might be. This might be an avenue to explore You know the avenue of the entertainment. Well thank you so I did too. So this guy percival calls you up bill. Principal contacted me through an intermediary and he basically asked. So what do you think. Have you got anything against doing. The Puppet Act and of course my friends are you kidding and he said No. I'm a serious I feel about. You know you said plumbing. Toby's been uncovered caliban. Yes a number of puppet shows down to the US all right. What are you? Start one of the muppet people. I don't think so. No No. He's built crystallises own. Sort of puppeteer think he uses those ones that. They're not muppets they. It's the same type of wealth instead of. It's not Marion that no they're not. They're similar to the muppets in the way that they used by the by individuals with bill works alone right Bill Bill Clinton so So I said You know so tell me about well. I've got these puppets pits and I love you. Interact with them. It's fun it's funny and I said well funny. There's this great concept you know. Let me see what it's about and so forth so I just came from his place where he put on puppet on and put the puppet onto puts up play. These guys one hand puppet hand and the other one's manipulating the puppet in the head. If you bought it is kind of tough to say you know. It's tough to say only fourteen and your brain works like a fourteen year old boy fourteen and you are a boy would work that way. You know what I'm saying. All right fine Phil Eight. He had his hand jammed up. This thing's head the other one's working than the other ones the hand all right. We'll look at we. You don't have to define puppetry. I think we know when we're talking about so he's working the puppet as weighed about and He said well here it is. He showed me some video clips of it and then he said okay. Well I'll sit on set with you and then I'll bring my puppeteers in and they will work to find cell. He sat with me. We ran the camera Couple of puppeteers came in well. The format format for this is me human. and Bill is the bartender and the other patrons are puppets and we talk about the news of the day again. I was a little confused by the news. What does that mean? You'll see her. I all right I do. I educate the places in a way you do. You educate the puppets new and I said puts educational. He's also comedy the APP so I could do. Comedy Guy Goes You know my whole life is accommodate looking at tiny her all right bargains. You're right but the point the point I'm making you sat down with these policy. You're going to sit and talk the Yes. And so it commenced and as we went along as the cameras rolled these puppets. I see me questions about the North Korean nuclear nuclear deal and I gradually. I didn't mind subject matter. It was the familiarity of the pumps had paid her. Say Her you know you do they. And then suddenly. I realized that I was being asked to talk to equals saying field. They were they were playing parts of adult. These puppets were belts. Yes you could say they were adults puppets but that wasn't so much even if they were adults if they were idiots and I said I started bill I thought I was going to be talking to blithering idiots and he said well. They're puppets so that makes them dumb enough. All things is being equal in a perfect world. Yes but this is the world of bill percival and his puppets. And you've got puppets talking to me like I'm some like I'm just another guy around here that you were offended by that. I was decidedly offended by that. Let me ask you something. Her feel. Don't start telling me Jersey Mr Sue Kelly especially you dip and don't start telling me that I'm overreacting. Wait a minute just if you don't mind it's a puppet show so it's entertainment so whatever makes it funny and whatever makes it compelling and puppets talking like they're adults in the right context can be very very funny. I can be funny in the right. Yes in the right context. Thank you have a human whose video for instance you could get on. I don't know who but just bring on some actor or some hosted some comedian Who would play the part of an idiot and he could talk? But I'm herb sewell and I am a research assistant and you say what you will about my prison sentence so ah I gotta sit there and say yeah. What's up Charlie and well he heard you know I've been reading about and then they started to give me crap you know I've been reading about you and Your research assistant any good and I said cut. Yeah I had to cod. I guess I need to cut I said is is this thing GonNa be talking to me like that. They WANNA take human being operating. The I know it is they said well. Why are you looking at the? I said because I'm compelled to look at it and is this well. The cameras are rolling looking at the puppet cameras a ruling. Yes but this was when the cameras were off I was still looking at it and they said why. Don't you talk to the guy that's manipulated the puppet but I because I can't yet make the gets that that's the thing that's giving me a hard time. And that's the thing that frankly. I want to pick a screwdriver to. Oh My oh my God. You're pissed off. I was pissed off. Yes you know her. Those kind of take a screwdriver to its face. That's going to get you remanded back. You know you're GONNA violate back. Oh is that right. What we listened to Kojak over here? I've been violated back. What does that mean well? Listen I don't eat a lot of legal prison talk okay. I'm talking about being humiliated. Her being humiliated you're in the middle of an entertainment. Have you ever done any kind of entertainment before. Yeah yeah as a matter of fact I did. I did voices and I D- I I. I had a ten people on the Damn Room and the task at Darrow. All the all the people that had to be wheeled to the window and they don't put it in the safe. See that's a day Cases yes I was the guy that was designated a herb curb sewell at five PM. Today in the day room and they'd wheel in all the people deliver catatonic and it just sort of it would stare at the wall and I'd say it's her time now to do you know and I do impressions so I have you ever done anything professional on television radio other than being on with Phil Okay. So so what we're saying here is. Don't you believe in something that you should get a little bit more familiarity already with and don't be so offended that you're talking to a puppet that you're equal. What where do they get off? The puppet isn't doing it. It's the guy I know it's the guy it's been a puppet. I understand that but once the puppet begins. I'm looking at this thing. That's got a big nose and two bulging eyeballs sunglasses on glasses and it's wearing a pork pie hat. I don't know anybody in real life but okay let me talk to him and this thing is telling me what complete F- Abiam taking the rams in the super trouble all kinds of stuff you know. Hate her You know what do you do all day long. Besides sitting there paddling it in front of a telephone and at and that's what he's saying they thought saying that. Exactly so you're you're taking a lot of crap from a puppet yes. I'm taking crap from a puppet and and I'll go you one better. I don't like it. I don't think anybody necessarily feel good about sitting there and taking being having endless buckets of you know what dumped on you. I don't understand you taking so personally was a puppet you know dictating the Butts Baker. Good a comment all right. You're making a good comment. Dickman I dare you to sit there and have endless bucket. So you know what dumped on you By a puppet herb. I think you need to go back to a task a daryl and have more insulin shock. How dare you well? You're talking like an utter idiot right down. Do you know that Mike mytalk idiot. A puppet is not going to humiliate you. A pump is a little. It's a an article in entertainment device. I know what it is failed right. It's an entertainment device. You're supposed to play a role. And many times human beings are made the foil of puppets. It's many times human beings are laughed at by puppets. Part of the comedy of it as part of the console her suits there and has endless endless buckets of shit dumped on him by a puppet. If it you said it I didn't use it. I didn't okay. He said it if you don't mind general dance around it so you got endless buckets. What what being dumped on you buy a puppet? What do you say to the puppet now? There's a good question. What do I say back to the puppet? Yeah so how do you respond. Well I talked to bill. We kinda I ah this puppet. He said it's it's sally dressed. She's the one that's I said. Hi Sally I know what you're doing it but you can't help it take I'm taking it from a puppet and so I'm I'm doing during the break in the chain I asked the puppet. Why are you asking the puppet because that is how how my mind was working and I said when do I get to give you a load and the puppet says to me? Just kinda shrug his shoulders and then went limp. Because Sally went off to get had coffee and I realized that she's not manipulated. The thing just collapsed in front of me and I thought maybe now I got it you know but she wasn't. Wow okay feel yeah. I know I'm not I'm cuckoo. Do you need to be in that. Have you ever worked opportunity. Oh it's Hendry have you ever worked for puppets Henry. No Sir I have not okay. It has been an entertainment and has played different roles and understands what it is to play the carry on the character. That you're playing her is who I'm playing me. I'm playing herb sewell. How would I act if a puppet starts telling me how it is? Oh baby you're a little bit of a problem. Yes and I think anyone any normal man with normal reaction to any normal functioning man with a man's needs but man's impulses any normal man and as the normal appetites a man would be offended by a puppet dumping bucket so you know what what any demand was normal appetites. Okay so that's it so I wanNA grab it and hunch I didn't say that did I wasn't what are you talking. That way Margaret. I do not for that making fun of people's Voices. You're seeing you have tight. I've got the normal appetite. Forget that I said Okay what I'm trying to tell you is what did did you say personal. I said to him I said listen. We're GONNA have to even the playing field here. He's puppets gotTa sit here and dump buckets on me that I get the dump a bucket of you-know-what on then the crap no I didn't say that I would be they're dumping. Let's be honest all right. Let's see if he gives you people laugh. I would say to everyone listening. You know. Consider the source. You'll find Mr Henry and his cohorts here find men in distress. Funny Okay. That's the furthest thing for the the truth. Well we'll see because what happened to me is I'm sitting on set and I'm having puppet Dong Plug on me done. Yes that's right. What are you trying to say? The puppets are going into their own nights soil buckets. Whatever figuratively speaking puppets? Don't actually take a dump but figuratively the puppet is reaching into its own night soil and throwing it on me. I don't know how to explain it. This you got a vacation something. Yeah I've been on an extended vacation since I have a casket daryl. I do a little bit of work I get paid really well so you WanNa throw your own Dung on them. It would be only fair so if a puppet is gonNA rear back and Frog Sandy. Colfax Roger Clemens fastball of puppet dump and hit me square in the face thinking about that Phil so for just a moment to think about that. Think about sitting ban being her soul and looking at the puppet and say well. Aren't you a smart ass and the puppet goes back with that high one marriage. y'All kick comes over hand with a fastball and hit square in the face with puppet dump. I don't know you got a wild imagination imagining. I think what I'm hearing here. Herb is that you find yourself kind of subservient. Yes a subservient position in this sketch and you'd rather have a little bit more the league exactly. I don't need to sit there. There's one puppet they have it's called GRANDPA. GRANDPA puppets something like that. It's an old timer puppet and this one really you know. I thought I had a good relationship with human being working at I know that. But GRANDPA puppets. Hey here's some kind of a nut you know and and I said the bill. Now we're not going to get into my prison. He said No. But the GRANDPA puppet walks the walks right up to the the edge walks right up at the edge leans in so that his body isn't touching the so-called line but he leans in almost nose to nose with being. So you're the nut. This is a puppet. Does this. No remember the audio yes. A puppet does that really listening. Yes I am I so and I said well GRANDPA puppet. What's new today? He said well. I got a speed Bola GRANDPA puppet dump for you and he proceeds to ask me about the terms of my parole and I said I said cut I said how dare you really don't know he's going to say oh. I bet you mistaken with somebody. What else so we went back and he goes now? What are the terms of your role and so I am thinking someone else? They've got to the character was but it was someone in the news. I said thank you GRANDPA puppet otherwise. I was going to reach down in the Mike Pence and then they yelled cut. What I'm talking about something? That distresses happen then they. You'll cut then herb. I'd quit then if it's causing this much problem I'm going to I'm going to quit. I don't I'm not feel I'm not like you. I'm not some joker. I'm not some guy that does funny voices. I am an academician on this down and saying Dickman so help me got academician. I understand understand. Yes all right. This is what I've done my entire life. Bill Personal Nice Guy Heard me on your show thinks that I would be real. How funny talking into some puppet telling me it's going to rare back with US speed ball puppet dump man so I said to bill very nicely you know? I appreciate that he wants to talk to mom. God listens. Just tell him. It's not anything you WANNA do or you can say to him. I will come back and do this show but not at the the way that we're doing. I don't WANNA be taken. I don't I want to be on the receiving end of this setup that that's what I want to say but I'm very concerned herb. Oh you're very concerned what would you do you mind if I finish by Stephen go ahead. I'm very concerned herb. You are somehow anthropomorphic. Sizing these puppets ways. That interesting thing word I went to college. Thank you very much all right. Sorry and you're talking to these puppets as if they're the ones intending these words and you don't hold the humans accountable. I don't know how to say it. Just it really really irritates me to see something with a big giant nose and big shoes and these eyeballs. Go googling out there springs saying things like so I hear you were inside for eight years and I'm like you burity sticking. You didn't well. That's what I was thinking when I said was well. You know we all make mistakes. And then the puppet says let's bring in grand pop up it because he's got a speed ball he's got speed speed ball of GRANDPA dump didn't say that did they. As God as my witness. He goes. Pick this up all I want to know what the terms of your parole I said. How dare and then he that dog? I'm thinking of somebody else and he brought up. I don't know who was Merle Haggard. WHO's dead and Merle Haggard? Get brought up somebody that wouldn't be offended Brought up some of the would be in here if you were offended. That's exactly what I'm trying to say. Okay I would I would simply say build this thing man. You don't WanNa do it. Build a century. If he's I I fire him. No you'RE GONNA quit. Yeah Yeah Yeah. I think that it's interesting though that they thought that you would be good for this. I believe if they could work out a proper script for you. Wouldn't you would wouldn't mind doing. I think it'd be very good at it. I agree I think you would. Her decent sexy are yeah. Well I think you know that but you can't start want wanted to strangle no puppet. I don't WanNa strangling I and you can't start saying you're getting endless buckets. Puppet dump see part of that I think is your you. I know my mental illness. Is that where you're gonNA go with Phil. Yeah matter of fact. Yeah you'RE GONNA sit here talking about puppets a dump and puppet shit all over you. Yeah but I get them back by yes by dumping her Sushi all over them pockets of it. You understand. We got buckets. Yeah all right yeah. Okay so good luck with that. Herb herb I don't know what to say the other than yeah. You guys gave me the advice that I've been giving myself a walk in and I'm GonNa tell them some things got a chain around here that puppet right there I hope that that grandpa puppets their home man. A real guy. I know. But I'm if the grab I'll I understand as a human doing it. But if the GRANDPAP say I'm GonNa tell it one more line from you about speed ball and publish herb lay down or something. I'm GonNa make drink when we got you know what I got. I got some of that dirty Martini stuff. I'M GONNA. Isn't that the all of juice. Yeah you put the juice in what inbox. Oh that's it. Yeah that's a dirty Martini. All right I'm GonNa make a dirty Martini. Thank you very much just got home and I'm just one out I'm just beat the Hell I will take it easy man. Okay and we'll talk to you next time on the old show. Okay all right. Thank you very much everyone. This is herb sewell. Okay but I I think we dumped out of them too fast. We'll be right back. We have professor Emory Klay Clayton and Roy bisky on a new movie. That Roy Bisky is a new book he wrote called Slapshot. And what might have been you know this movie slapshot I Nepal Newman and Variety Martin as it was it's been on TV this afternoon in the NFL. Now we're very entertaining movie about Minor League hockey in the seventies and Paul Newman plays that sort of typical. You you know forty something defenseman. Who a lot of guys by amazing number guys play hockey into their forties very? Oh Yeah Yeah I guess. If YOU'RE IN SHAPE LA- Tom Brady man so why be surprised. But Paul Newman plays a guy like the aging veteran and all of the intrigue. They're well Roy. Bisky says that it is reflective of his life. You're talking about a lawsuit. I don't I don't think so but we'll see coming up next year. The world famous Phil Emery. Show the world famous Phil Hendrie show has backstage pass subscriptions for sale for a month or for a year and you can become a member of our backstage pass family a group of people that can enjoy thirty five thousand hours of archive material audio material video material on our website. We have old video cast archives as well we've got TV that we've made we have all of our TV and radio press and interviews and of course our archive and we also have the new podcast that we have been producing for the last six years. It's all of their world famous Phil Hendrie show website so you're getting a whole lot of content and the price is the right man for a month. Nine ninety five man can't beat it if you get a year subscription. It's about like what Margaret. It's around six dollars and sixty seven cents thereabouts. 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Welcome back here. world-famous filling be show filling reshow dot com coming up and not hurts. We just talked to him. So we have Roy Bisky and Professor Clayton to discuss with us. This new book book by Roy called. We should've had franken. You know I know in frank was very very busy but Roy and I spoke just ahead of the show. No and I think it'd be very interesting to talk with Roy about his experiences with her suspects and this new book that you have out. Roy How are you good at Breaking Cooper very much inviting me. I'm so very grateful to Henry. How are you Mr Henry crew? Here's Bud Dickman. I you know I've listened to you for many years. This is General Shaw. How are you general on? How many years did you play hockey? Lucky and how many of those years did you spend with her she sports. I played hockey for twenty one years. I started a perfect. You're talking about professional. Yes I've mentioned you were in the junior ranks. I was in junior hockey in Massachusetts But I played for twenty one years in the minor. Leagues never had any national hockey elite experience but For Twenty one years I I worked the boards and skated Nand eight until bucket. I heard your last guests talking about buckets of Deng I ate untold buckets of Deng. You know and I could probably get off that topic. You're right here and I'm not bitter about it I played. I played in the Eastern in Continental Shelf League and I played those twenty one years. I played fifteen Hershey squirts. Play fifteen years so one might any team the old days. We're talking about the nineteen seventies when you could Hang on with a team like that everything so scientific now And the scouting outing and and You know the the investments that the teams make they. They're not gonNA have that much patience and I was also a worked my way into an assistant coach position with the team team. Eventually I did coach the team for a couple of years. I went to the front office just before they moved to Massachusetts. So you were with them in Pennsylvania did move there. You were Boston Bruin affiliated with we were like a sea level just ahead of junior hockey affiliate of the Boston bruins talking gotta Roy Bisky and also clean is going to be joining us here from La Kenyon College in northern Los Angeles County but before we get Professor Clayton up on here Roy. Tell me about the book Slapshot what might have been the movie that was made and I believe it was based in many people believe it was based around the minor league experience on the East Coast back in the seventies and sixties. And that was my life and the thing to understand about Roy bisky is that I was originally My that's not my birthday. My Birth Name was Warren. Happy Ward. Happy as your last name. That was my last name. My father's name was Oleo. Happy Clown the old central circus and he had his name legally changed a happy and that became the family name and I grew up has ward happy. That's really interesting. So now we get to the book slapshot and what might have been in this book. Your name is slap happy. Well that was. That was my nickname as I was growing slap. Happy Okay and when I started playing minor league hockey and and my name is ward happy. I decided to change by name before changed by name but by say come slap happy right and then the movie slapshot gets produced. And I'm thinking the name slap-happy is actually something that has some some market value. Could've made a movie called slap. Happy I I think that they could have made the movie slap happy. Because I worked the movie slap happy slapshot and I went to a guy at the local the paper Hershey and he he knew some people in Hollywood. I said I got up. I just wrote a a movie called slap happy and he goes. Okay you know movies slapshots lap shots already out. I said but I was very frustrated. I said but my name slap happy and and he says that's fine but so he went ahead any and they showed it around town and nothing come. Well I mean yeah you know. It's they probably had made the one hockey movie then. How many hockey movies do they make? I was the thing I I but I felt when I brought the book. I sat down to write the book of how I feel that I got you know treated very unfairly because my name was slapped was weren't happy and they called me slap happy and I got so angry about that. I had my name legally changed Roy Bisky and the movie comes out and I just felt like I was treated that I I was stupid. Okay all right. Well I don't WanNa see I don't agree with you but you're starting to go down. I think the right road here. All right let's say I was stupid but they took advantage of how dumb I is by making the movie slapshot Linnea wait a minute. Wait a minute my name was slap happy. I was dumb enough to change my name to Roy. Bisky made a movie Louis about this key. Yeah Oh sure that's going to happen. Who Cares what I'm saying is nobody's GonNa make a movie called Roy Bisky? What's what's not slapped? What is the movie had been made? I would gladly be slap happy but I'm not. There's no movie what what Roy is saying. Is that you feel dumb. But they took advantage of that. Is that it. Yes I feel that. They made the movie slapshot. Knowing that there was a guy in the eastern continental legally nicknamed name slap happy which was me and meanwhile I wanna hit and had my name legally changed not knowing they were GonNa make a movie out of me. Oh you think they made the movie about how you I think elements of my life. Yeah well who are you in that film in. What film film I think? There's Paul Newman is a little bit like may Eh. Those twins are a little a little bit. Like may Straw there Martin's a little bit like that very specific alleging some kind of plagiarizing. Well no but I mean now that you mentioned I you know I could. It's I look at it again. And maybe are you sure you're not just trying to concoct some story. No also I'm not you're not trying to concoct some starting to get some money because it sounds like you're changing your story changing my story. Not at all. I'm saying well first first of all you originally you said you had your name legally changed before you started playing hockey. I don't believe I did if I did. I misspoke all right. Well then you had your name legally changed after you start playing hockey. Yes who wants to be called slap happy and the reason why they called me that is I took a few. I took a few off the face. And the what pucks. Yeah what did you think all right. I'm just what what else are you gonNa take off the failed. There's there's things you can take off the face. There's no question question about it. I wasn't one of those guys great. So you had that hit me. Hit A lot with pucks. Yes that's right and Did you play goaltender. Yeah just saying you know I was not a goalie I was forward. You're a forward so you're a guy that was you were attacking on the ice and you're getting pucks soft fate or what's so funny about that. Though it seems to me who's skill position guys. Were passing the puck but it was never escaped. They always pass the puck to me and it hit me in the head. Did you score a lot of goals all right so we're got to do what I'm what I'm trying to say to Mr. If you don't mind pulled on I just. We're talking here with Roy. Bisky of former player with the Hershey squirts a minor league team who was known for part of his career slap happy. He changed his name to Roy Bisky so he wouldn't be known as slap happy. Meanwhile movie slapshot came out which you feel is in some ways lifting your autobiography elementary story. Yeah that lifted. Lift me okay. So that's a legal case. Tell me about your life as slap happy and any interest you had and writing reading a book or a movie before Slapshot came out people before slapshot came up. Yes because I just want to trace how all of this got started in your the mind. Well before the movie came out my name was slap happy and then I had killed before the movie came out. My name was already Roy Bisky right biscuit number. Twelve the Hershey squirts quirks Your your slant happy before that I was slap happy and I went to my coach. A wonderful man. By the name of Ted Linear and the owner of our team of the Hershey squirts the Roscoe pullman and he was the man who eventually sold the team to the Elliott twins and they were the ones that took the team to. We're we're stir mass and and Changed the name from the Hershey squirts to to the to the worst or riverside on the what they call it. It had to do with liquid. I know that and and so I said I. I don't want to be known as everybody calls me slap happy because I'm getting a because I'm taking pucks off the face every night and I remember Ted said to me. Don't you WANNA learn how to not take puck off to face and I said Mr Lanier. Of course I do but let's let's first things first and first things first so you the first thing you want to do is change your name. I thought that was more important than having you know. I'm a hockey player or professional hockey keyplayer. So obviously I know how to you. Know not take a puck off the face. Well when did you let me ask you something man. How long have you taken pucks off the face all twenty one years so you never did learn how to avoid taking the puck off the fees? No and you were not proficient. Goal score prolific goalscorer. Were you I average probably about eleven twelve goals a season so that's not really what we call buffo production. No it was. It's not you know but that was my position and I did the best I could with what I got well anyway. Long Story Short. I changed my name Roy Biscuit along now comes the movie slapshot with all these looney toon. Looney you know these guys are all just GonNa looney tunes you understand what I'm saying. Yes we yeah and so I go. Wow data looks like my life. Only my name isn't funny. I used to be funny. He's down the name slap happy and a couple of guys are still on the team and they're yeah remember when you were slap happy go. Yeah it looks like that's my life and they go. Yeah and I called the local guy from the Hershey Holler which was the name of our paper and I said I got a story. He said I know who you are. Roy How you dwarf slap and he goes I guess what I made a big mistake slapshots about me and he goes. He gave me the brush. She hung up on me. I call him back about six times and finally got through and finally to the coast. Next week I'll take your script. You wrote a script yes I did. How long does it take you to write that? It took me the better part of a night one night to write a script about a movie about you. Listen you know. Writing scripts is not that hard. If you know what you're trying to say this was about you slap happy and then and then nobody wanted to see it. 'CAUSE slapshot was already out. Slapshot was a pretty big hit and as I say they still show it on cable. TV It's funny movie. It's it's an endearing movie. It's it's one of the few hockey movies that I can think of is being I don't know compelling. How many hockey movies do you remember? I can't think of one that miracle on ice going back about America. What about it man? I mean feels point is is well taken. Hockey films are not that. I don't know I'd have to think but slapshot was funny. Well you guys are sitting there now. I'm your guest. I'm I'm sorry. Yeah we're we're we're remembering slapshot and slap happy. I'm in the breeze. I'm like You know to go back to your your previous guest herb sewell. If a puppet topic cut one what the puppet cut okay listen. We're sorry let's get emory Clayton in here right now and this gentleman is GonNa be on with me yeah. Emory doctor McLean is a doctor. A professor professor Emory Clayton is joining us from La. Kenyon College to talk about the hockey. And he's got his own take on it and Professor Clayton good to have you with us Mr Bisky biscuit that right Roy Biscay. How're you professor? Good so Emory you heard was we were talking to Roy about. Do you have any ceilings on that he wanted to talk about Hillary right. I do WanNa talk about what he'll re Roy and listening to a story and the story goes as I understand handed that you had the name slap happy nickname. My name is ward. Happy write your name is ward happy and they called you slap well. They called me. spank originally originally and That's another reason but it changed. The original name was spank happy. Yes Sir and and and forgive me. It's crude all right But the IT changed a slap when I started taking pucks off the face okay and And then the cut the movie slapshot comes out. You'll be slapshot. Came out and I I thought well you know it looks like it's about me. You maintain that all about you. Yes Sir I do and so but no one cared and no moyer would take the case so your name by this point was rolling Bisky Roy Biscuit Yelp I see and originally your name was spank happy. Yes and that had to do do with a nervous habit that I had i. I don't think we have to buy masturbation. What did he just here in? Wait a minute wait a minute talk about I was GONNA say. I think we had that one up. Phil I WanNa talk about William Murray and I do WanNa talk here a little bit with good friend. Mr Bisky but Willie was inducted into the National Hug. The national hug the National Hug. I was going to see National Hog Cholera or league. But that's it's the hockey league right. Yeah all right I understand okay but I'm a little confused here by by your name's Spanky is that it okay. I know when people are making fun of me I swear to God. I'm not making fun of your your name. I'm fine I can now Mr Henry we wait wait. Wait a minute was spanked. Alright spank I thought you said Spanky spayed happy was the name I e I don't know you never played with him. Did you know Mr was about a decade ahead of me in the nineteen sixties. I Would Hillary broke into the national hockey with the Boston Bruins and then played most of his career in the minor leagues while a great great courageous player. Any black man who is skating or walking or crawling into an arena traditionally occupied by Whites or a different race. I think any black man should be accorded our highest level of gratitude and respect. Because that's not an easy thing to do And Willie Reed at the difference between Willie Ori- Jackie Robinson is quite simply. This was not the greatest hockey player. But as you have said Phil and attested to William William replayed In the minors in Los Angeles and I was fortunate to see we'll replay for the blades. And then he went and he played for San Diego. The played for the San Diego goes. Yeah so Willie Reed has a A reputation and a legacy among the minor league hockey fans of the west coast in the nineteen sixties but. I don't want anyone to think that that you know Willie Reed did this with his proficiency on ice whether we did this with his courage with his manhood with his intelligence with his love of the game and ultimately with humidity So that's why I really are- now Roy story is slightly different. Roy was at one time. A man named spank happy. We I'm I'm right about that. Yeah yes you are but you know you don't the name that I went that was known by was slap. So you're not spank happy. I yes I was spanked happy. I wasn't spank happy. That was the name I we understand. And then they started calling me slap happy because the PUCK started carrying off my face and started about my third year. Okay and then I said well I've had enough of this being called spank happy and then slap happy so then I I changed my name to Roy Bisky right you got that from bisquick boxes at it. No that's not right sir. You alluded to that. You're you're right I did but that was just one of a few areas of influence and then what I did was then comes. The movie. SLAP SLAM A ham. Shot not not damn shot slapshot slapshot. Yeah and I said Wow that looks like my story. What part of that film look like your story? I I mean just everything in it was how stupid the guy was kept getting hit in the head. That was me. I bet it and getting stitches in the roof of your mouth and everything you know. Now that doesn't sound just like a typical that doesn't sound like a typical hockey players life. We'll know I mean it could have been but I went ahead ahead. I wrote the script called SPANK SPANK I call it. Slap happy happy you know it was called slap happy taking it off taste and these guys slap happy taking off to face. Yes yes. What was the feedback you got in that script? That was going to be my question. Question the feedback I got on the script was first of all There's a movie called slapshot right now. I said I know that. But this is a true story and they said and when you say taken take it off the face what are you talking about. And they said that I said Oh my God you don't know that I'm a puck and they okay that clears that up you know. And what does that mean. They didn't know what you meant by that. I bought the thought the audio well what they thought you were taking something. I've been who else off the face. That was my understanding and I said what I want. No part of it at all. GimMe a break. Will you tell me I swear to God that was I said the name of swept swipe and they said right so take it off the face and they go what off the face should pucks and they go thank God and they're like wiping fake sweat from their head there Yanking your crank Jack. Oh I didn't get that sense at all when I I don't think we need to Belabor the point the fact is they did not buy your script and for the rest of your life US sort of in the shadow slapshot feeling like you said what might have been exactly so what might have been had roy biscuit risky been allowed to tell his story. You know but your name. was that really bisky. Your name was spank happy then slap happy it was slap happy. That's the name hockey fans really new. SPEC happy is what my teammates called me. By the time I become slap happy everyone in the arena at Hershey Arena and around the eastern Continental League new. I was the guy that took it off the took him off. Took it off the Chin or off the face that's the thing a You're taking it off a face. They let me let me explain something. You're right I don't like the inference that let me explain something. You are on a show with a bunch of jokers that every time somebody says something having to do with something coming off the face they immediately go to the filthy you understand. Oh I see okay now. That's not fair. That's very fair so what's happening here. Roy is every time you say I took it off the face. All these all these jokers that you're talking and to have turned on Mike Switches off and they're in they're going believe me. I've seen it happen there on video right now. So they can't lie about it. All the show is on. I heard it was. We're not laughing. Well not sale but not not filled but the other guys right. I'm afraid I guess I have to tell them. Okay and sorry we need to see. That's just it. I spent years in hockey as as slap happy taking it off the Chin and you guys are and that they think it's some sort of money shot. Ah Jesus H hang up Roy I apologize. I apologize and I'll do anything that I can to help you. Get Komo your book along. Okay well unless you know some heavy hitters in a studio Mr Henry. Well I don't but I okay. Well thanks thanks for nothing. Yeah you know what I tell you. What really caught me? I'm GONNA give you a number two I'm GONNA Give My. I'll give you a number to me. I give you my number yes right. I'll take your number and I'll call you but I want you to have my number. How do I do that? You can just give it to me. I stay on the line after the show bill. Give me his number so I can call him and get his number idea right all right. Thanks guys thanks a lot Mr any of that Roy. Bisky what boy you are something else you know that. Oh It's my fall Zenit Field I mean give me his number so I can call him and get his number. I didn't do anything other than listen to the guy and I said Yeah I will. We have to go now. Folks thank you thanks a lot. Thank you Phil Hendrie for mocking talking and making fun of a poor man. A poor former squirt named spank happy again. Maybe the things you laugh at Phil Others Neil and look to the heavens and weep over. I'm Margaret Gray S. Beautiful Ms Grey. Yes sure world-famous Phil Hendrie show has been executive produced by Phil Hendrie for reincorporated. All rights reserved on podcast one. Yeah join us again. Join US again someday to join us again tomorrow and reg in Petaluma Reggie Petaluma Luma Man. We're waiting for your email. We're waiting for your call son. We are waiting for your contact because we take you to the races. Yeah in many thanks to herb. Sewell Roy bisky professor Emory Clayton. And the hell else bill percival. Although he wasn't on the air with Yeah Bill First of all thanks bill you and your puppets Enqvist girl enough speed ball up dump ceases Mrs Yeah.
Pique your interest in the past
"You're listening to the black belt voices podcast propagating the richness of black southern culture by sharing stories from and about black folks down south. I'm Kierra Wilkins and I'm Edina White. On our last episode. We talked about the one hundred year anniversary of the Elaine massacre with Dr Brian Mitchell. A history professor at the University of Arkansas at Little Rock on this episode. We'll learn more about Dr Mitchell background. How he became interested in history and why we should be interested to also. We'll revisit another one hundred year commemoration. Dr Mitchell has been into history. Since he was a child he grew up poor in a single parent household but his mother made sure that he was cultured. But my mother always dreamt big in. Toma students set to said you know. Sometimes our kids Not knowing what's out there in the world we have to dream for them. We have to tell them and show them things that they wouldn't otherwise see. My mother would take me to museums and take me to plays and at the time we're living in Chicago. I'm originally from New Orleans. We're living in Chicago and we go to the Museum of Science and Industry. We'll go to the field museum. We'd go to the art institute and I did this. Every day is a little kid and I just assumed every other little kid in America did the same thing every day But but mom would come home from college. Take me to different places and I grew to love history. A- grew to love the past young. Brian and his mom moved back to New Orleans. After his mom's brother had been killed anti wanted to be active. In that court case it was billed as the very last lynching in America. And you have to remember. This is the nineteen seventies just after the civil rights movement. He had been a attending southern university and he was at a fundraiser for An African American man who was arrested and sent to prison out. He was trying to get him. Released from prison. Is Scary. Tyler and my uncle's name was Richard Dunn and Richard was taking a bus home with a group of his friends aback to His mother's house. He was a guest list. Sophomore in college at the time and a group of men white men were passing car and shot him at the bus. Stop Killing Him. And My mother wanted to go home to be a part of that case since demand justice for her brother her youngest brother there wasn't justice in that case as soon as the first one away. The perpetrator was given twenty years. Governor ultimately pardoned him in he was released from prison so now. Dr Mitchell is in New Orleans and he gets to spend a lot of time with his great grandmother and this fed into his love for history as well and every day after school. I would stop at her house into my mother or my aunts got off. They pick me up from her house but what I did. She didn't have a television in. Her house is very old too if she were alive today she'd be one hundred twenty hundred thirty years ago the set and tell me stories and show me pictures and tell me about my family and this also peaked my interest in the past. And it's from that that. I think I embraced began to embrace. History documentary. Didn't think much about history as a career until he got to call it. He was fortunate to have two black professors who were historians. And that is a big deal. That is a rarity right. Yeah and it does make a difference. Who's teaching you your history right? So you're hearing something from the perspective of someone who looks like you and has had that lived experience. It helps influence the next generation of historians. And so that's what really led him to be able to teach is because he was able to see himself in history today. Dr Mitchell teaches from the perspective of marginalized people. We've all grown up hearing the narrative that America wants to teach that America was founded by great white men and everybody else urges supporting characters in this narrative. But that's not the truth so I try to offer my students something different and most of them once given a choice realize that the story makes sense when all of the characters are putting their proper places. It don't make sense why America's successful it makes sense why we do the things we do. It makes sense why we live where we live. It makes sense when you tell them. The story of urban renewal why poverties so endemic to black communities so I feel blessed that I have that job. A feel blessed that I can do every day and I feel blessed for the students said I get and there's nothing more I always tell people when they ask about Teaching I said My grandmother you say you. You know a tree by the fruit at bears and you know so. Hopefully that's my little way of changing America's by changing the minds of the people that come in contact with every day and being an important influence in their lives because Dr Mitchell is a historian we talked to him about the history of black belt and how it got his name. We've after that name for this podcast but Dr Mitchell talked about two things. He feels will make a difference for many black people in the south exposure in education. Many black belt towns or exactly like Elaine and the suffering that we're talking about even though I think the prospect put a number on Elaine saying that they were the fifteenth poorest. I bet if we looked at the the one through fourteen vail those would all be largely African American or a Hispanic Agrarian Communities So this idea of people who were Us By society and used by the leads to do their bitty and then when they were no longer of use to them they were discarded at. I think this is a common narrative that very few people talk about but when we drive across the landscape at quite often drive back home and I don't take the fifty five all the time. Sometimes I'd take the old highway down passing through cross it pine bluff in Douma said and all these communities that pass through are largely by very poor and are controlled by why he lied that it's probably control at community as long as that communities existed and the only hope that many of the people who are living in the black belt has is education. That y what's going on today in Little Rock so important. You know their picket lines in standing strong because the thing that made the biggest difference in my own life And I was talking about this in class today to some students Were two things are too overwhelming differences in my life that could have may be active turned out any other kind of way you could imagine My mother caring enough to try to have a better life for me. Expose me the things. I wouldn't have seen any other way in education teachers caring about me in going to good schools that provide me with a an excellent education and opportunities devoid of those two things. If any one of those two things were not presume my life I would be an entirely different person As we do on most of our episodes on the black belt voices podcasts. We ended our conversation with Dr Mitchell with our call and response segment. I one is. What's your favorite soul food from New Orleans? So it would be fish of some sort. I liked moisture's which people up here don't eat but in their very hard to get here. Good Oysters probably say Fried Oyster poboy or something like that whether you wish people knew understood about the south a wish people understood where they were in relation to other people The South is divided in many ways like Johnson said America is two different places you know. divided in unequal. And I think one of the things that made this possible suburbanization than people are able to work in the city and drive back to Bryant or been. They begin to talk about people in the city as those people in those neighborhoods and in a way dehumanized. The people are air without taking into consideration. How those people got there. They were placed there that they live in food deserts. They see themselves through this lens of superiority. And this this distance Makes them feel that their immune to any relationships with them. They don't see themselves as symbiotic as you know. The city is being a large community and they don't feel connected to one another so I think that's one of the things that distance did and white flight did to America. This notion of of we don't like people or people the wrong kind of people move next door. We can just move away. We can't continue doing that. It finally was something awesome. That's happening in your life recently. Also in the happen in my life recently as she. I have new things that happen all the time. I have a son and daughter fourteen year old and a brand new meant it this month. Eleven year old. They are full of adventure. There's always excellent stuff going on with them. They make crowd T- I I just got back from the Southern Historical Association's Conference in Louisville and I did a panel there on the Elaine massacre and that panel was broadcast on C. Span. So be on the lookout cool. Be Able to hear a panel with leading scholars on the Elaine race massacre discuss the Elaine Mason race massacre and I'll and that in that C-span broadcasts also go into more detail about the projects that I do with the students and Some of the new discoveries that we've been able to make as a group we're going to take a short break and when we come back we'll revisit another hundred year. Commemoration WITH DANA WHITE IN KATRINA. Do a okay. We're back in what I'm talking about. Something exciting to happen in our family. If you didn't know our producer Katrina deepens and I- Dina White our sisters yes. The cat is out of the bag. Sisters and So anyway our grandma just turned one hundred in her name is classy with an eye on the and we're not making it up L. A. Ssi classy classy. So yeah it was a great time. Yup We recently celebrated one hundred years with her. There were so many people there. She had eleven. Children has eleven children every single wound him. Still here all of them. They are celebrating one hundred years. It was so beautiful because who the crowd I mean you can imagine how many grandchildren she has with eleven kids now. It was a big celebration and it was just so beautiful to see so many people come together without there being a gasket somewhere right it was wonderful and we ate real good too so Mitchell. We'd been talking about him. These past couple of episodes nineteen nineteen the same years Elaine massacre. That was win. Grandma was born and so think about all the things that she has seen. Woodrow Wilson was president. Civil Rights movement was starting a civil rights movement start with Rosa Parks but actually is attributed red summer of Nineteen nineteen. Think also just going back to what you said thinking about everything that she's seen she's literally seeing you know the introduction of cars and how that progressed. She seemed Radio Television to social media. I mean there's just so much that from one thousand nine hundred ninety nine to two thousand. Nineteen in the way that this world has evolved five becquerels. Grandma has some really cool stories. She does have some closed stories but what she likes to do most is ask you about what poems you know until you about the poems that she knows beautiful one beautiful want you you and you re the one win and believable you you go with you weep off and do the You own very small out of you. A with me linked to say they're doing you you live and and how often do we as black people get to see? Someone lives such a fool life and be able to celebrate them and give them their flowers while they're here and again also just vim being of someone. Cognizant mind and body to understand what's going on And be like an integral part of the celebration so for your grandma to even be able to recite those poems and remember those things. I think it I was moved. I was very touched as an outsider. I was like on what is for my family. My Grandma's eighty six so she has a moment. But I hope that we do the same thing. And what this also sparked me to do you guys your family did. I'm going to record my grandmother. I've decided off of that that I'm just GonNa go and I don't have any set script. I don't have anything that like particular. I want her to say but I just WANNA start capturing bites of her talking in her talking about her life and things and I think our family will value that in the long run you know what. She's not here to tell us those stories to David The second day was a church service. Were GRANDMA'S ERA poems We say the Nice Gospel Music but the night before we turned up and of course the electric slab was played. It's not A. It's not a black gathering until late. It was it was a lot of fun. One of my favorite moments from that wholesaler. Abrasion was when my uncle played natalie. Cole's our love the whole ground was singing along with it and it was just so rate it was so wonderful and it sounded wonderful in. Is this the moment? I guess everyone was thinking along and then just thinking about why we were there in our parents they do kind of consider that there are some But that night was everyone song. I wasn't booth up because my husband to go home and put the baby to bed. He's a little over a year so I got to film it but it was very sweet. Just two zero really just joy just pure joy and that's always good to queens. He forgot and a broad to talk about. Start a new decade. I'm curious what it big things you are. Have to reflect upon Over these last ten years. And what are you most looking forward to as we head into twenty twenty. I'm looking forward to having a new president possibly twenty twenty Personally when I look back on the last decade I think growth is probably big thing with mine. Of course you know. I have a child. Now that happened at the end of the decade. He's as I mentioned earlier. He's a little over one euro but for other ways I've grown just like an understanding of race in America. Better is is more than just someone being mean to someone else. Like white person being mean to burst person. Is there systemic issues still embedded in our society learning more about that? That's been a big interest years and that led to this podcast and hopefully lead to more things in the future so I think growing as a person in that regard has really been transformational for me. Yeah and I agree with you in terms of kind of really leaning into and learning more about yourself as a black person in this country and you know I'm thirty six and I think back again over the decade of of how I have grown into really leaning into being a black woman and leading with that and all the good and the bad that comes with it and being unapologetic about it at this point you know ten years ago I would tiptoe around Basically my blackness thing and kind of you know be at work in sort of shrink myself and now as I'm older and we go into twenty twenty and You Know Camera Harris had to drop out of the presidential race and and some of that was literally because you know as a black woman stepping into wanting to be in the highest position in the land. There was a lot of scrutiny. That was put on her. Probably weren't put on some of the other candidates so it's just a reminder like we have to keep pressing we have to keep being advocates for ourselves as black women we have to keep supporting each other and we have to keep empowering each other and so I applaud you for starting this podcast. You've been talking about it for so long. This this is one of those ways that we have get out our message and use our voice so thank you for allowing me to ride with. Young TRAINA are silent partner. You know I just want to add to what you guys were saying about growth in the last decade. I think back to two thousand ten when I just finally got tired of relax my hair and chopped it off on a whim when afternoon and said a Brennan's editor thing and then he cleaned it up for me. I mean just debt step to me meant so much freedom and growth as a black person. Because I grew up many of us grew up thinking. Your hair is not good every literally. There's good hair then. There's our hair and does learning to love yourself in that way and an intern that changing into all kinds of ways and now I know it sounds like it's just about hair but it's about being proud of being who you are and I look forward to in the future not feeling like I have so much to prove and just being the best that I am and that being good enough. That sounds like a segue into a possible future podcasts. Little Teaser for you all. Thank you all for listening to Black. Graboy says this year twenty nineteen and we look forward to bringing you new episodes in twenty twenty. We'll see you next time. Thank you for listening. Be Sure to subscribe in. Leave us a five star rating on Apple podcasts. So other finders you can also listen to the black belt voice podcast platforms spotify in Google play. This episode was produced and edited by Katrina dukedoms with theme music composed by printers. Junior be sure to follow blackbelt voices on facebook twitter and Instagram blackbelt voices and visit blackbelt voices dot COM
Full Episode: Tuesday, September 1, 2020
"Tonight the medical mystery. Paralyzing hundreds of children. Leaving them defenseless but not defeated families clinging to hope it's hard to see my kid not be able to. Like she was before that's. Now the brace to unravel the mystery and the innovative surgery that may change one child fly. Head give all their families. We'll take. A. Special edition of Nightline, fighting to survive starts right now. Good, evening. Thanks for joining US tonight. Imagine watching a bizarre illness attack your child. It's a rare polio like mystery that doctors are desperately trying to solve for nearly two years. We followed three families as they grapple with this horrifying reality. Here's ABC's chief medical correspondent Dr Jen Ashton. This is the hill families last. One for their eight year old son Quinn. Getting ready for potentially life changing surgery. After a mysterious illness challenged his life forever and left him partially paralyzed overnight. He was unable to move his neck. It's arm or he had a really hard time walking. That's pretty scary. This. Moment may not just define Clinton's future. But the future of children like how across the country. Looking for answers here we. Go Buddy. And Medical mysteries. The scariest part of this is how. We know about as the country struggles to contain the COVID nineteen pandemic medical experts are sounding the alarm that another outbreak is hiding in shadows. Common cold then leads to paralysis twenty twenty is expected to be another picquier for disease known as acute flaccid myositis were am FM a devastating illness that attacks a child's nervous system akin to polio. There is no reason for me not to expect an outbreak in twenty twani tonight, we take you inside this medical mystery the race to find a cure I was probably one of the very first taste of it. We go inside the hospitals innovating healing therapies. To go with Iran. And we're with the families of children already stricken as they fight for their future as is WANNA helping. You wouldn't. Always feel like something's going. Here in town. A. Catholic shot takes. Thank you built that. How long did this take you about two weeks when you first meet eight-year-old Quinton Hill It's hard to miss his playfulness and good nature. Ever. Since he was little, you can put them in a corner with anything and help play with it like he'll entertain himself. You guys must just think like this is so easy. Where's the best parents I'M NOT GONNA lie once twice I remember thinking to myself Gosh I you know friends and family that are going through hard times I'm like God life too easy. But in September of two, thousand, eighteen life got a lot more complicated. Church and he's complaining that just had a little sore throat at the beginning signs cold. Went from a cold to flu symptoms to all of a sudden my dad I can't move my arm. I want to get off the couch. He would spend two grueling weeks in the hospital undergoing dozens of tests. It was that second week that you heard. The term? AF? FM. Yeah it was all unknowns right? No known cure no treatment. Don't know how it spreads. What neither the hills nor the doctors knew was that Quinton was part of the two thousand, eighteen outbreak of acute flaccid myositis or A. FM. At least two, hundred, thirty, eight children in forty two states acute flaccid. My light is the word acute refers to how quickly the symptoms come on and we have seen children go from normal to paralyze in a matter of hours. A neurologist at the University of Texas southwestern. Dr Greenberg has researched this rare illness for nearly a decade and while the CDC has only been tracking cases since two thousand fourteen, he knows it has been here longer. A life changing event for the entire family. This turns world's upside. down. Still. Buddy changed. Now. Can't run up man miss the most. Wow that is so cool. Buddy. We first met Camden car and his family in October two, thousand eighteen. FM would devastate the three-year-old small body leaving him severely paralyzed. Unable to afford a home nursing aid, the brunt of camden care has fallen on his parents, Chris and Brittany. Guys Medication List here, and basically how you got this every two hours we had switches bad out from a normal toddler bed. I know this is hard Chris but how has a FM changed your son? Report shape or form you can imagine. Can't use the bathroom ozone can't scratch his nose arm. Of, Donald Certified Caregiver some the only person that can do anything emerged situation for him. Promise. Mom passes away. Shoulders. No one else's. For. Children like Camden. The damage FM does is permanent presenting a lifetime of challenges, but they are not impossible to overcome. As one of the earliest am FM patients Sarah Todd Hammer has been through it all over ten years ago I was eight years old and I couldn't move even a single toe and now. Here, I am it teen years old and heading off to college. Is Extraordinary honestly at the time of her diagnosis in two thousand, ten doctors knew even less about a FM and diagnosed her with different disease. It's really difficult having something that doctors don't seem to have the answers for. No one really knew how to treat me and so I decided to go visit. Dr. Greenberg in. Texas and HE RE DIAGNOSED WITH FM the study of early cases like Saratov have allowed doctors to pinpoint the cause of am the likely culprit is a virus called enter a virus, de? Sixty. Virginia knowledge on why is this virus causing paralysis? In this way, we know part of it is the viruses mutated over time. Health officials have noticed a pattern US cases of am FM Spike every other year during the fall months there have been outbreaks in two, thousand, fourteen, two, thousand, sixteen, and two, thousand, eighteen. This year will be no different and while there's no cure doctors hope public awareness will help minimize the spread of Am FM. And Sarah Todd is her part. Hi Guys in Syria Todd and welcome back twenty two channel. Do use his her experience to raise awareness and help younger patients and their. Navigate. The challenges of the illness. You can have a great life no matter what and I don't think having a disability can. Stop you from achieving what you want to achieve. It's that spirit of perseverance that has helped Sarah despite the difficulties she's learned how to drive. Sarah Todd's journey. Perhaps a glimmer of hope for Young Am FM patients. After Quinn's diagnosis he was sent home and begin exercising to strengthen his right side. It's hard as a parent to see all the atrophy and when he has assured off in the one side of his body is super super bony in skeletal on the other side you he's showing off how strong is right? Arm is show me your muscle on your right side. How strong they're getting? show me your curl on your website. But, Rehab alone might not be enough. FM's difficult to treat. It turns off the nerves in the spinal cord. So medically speaking right now, we don't have a good way to just flip back on that circuit breaker switch and SPA accord surgery takes me about two hours transfer Dr. Mitchell. Syria. Is a neurosurgeon with hospital. Los Angeles. He and his team have pioneered an innovative nerve transplant surgery to reconnect paralyzed limbs to the spine staunton for families because medically it's not as if we can just take a pill orne injection. And it turns back on. So. Then you get to nerve treatment in in many cases, children have regained some mobility to their arms and legs. Now, he's planning to try that surgery on Quinton, but success isn't guaranteed. When we? COME BACK Surgery that could change Quinton for life. Rings isn't. Quin hill has undergone months of intensive physical therapy. Because left arm was paralyzed by acute flaccid myositis or FM a mysterious virus that strikes and paralyzes children every other year. Next thanks for Clinton's parents and James. The past year has been a heartbreaking. Endless storm to navigate. But they've come across an innovative nerve transplant surgery that has given them. Hope. It could restore movement in Quinn's elbow and shoulder. Dr Mitchell Saraya and his team. At Children's Hospital Los Angeles have successfully operated on at least forty. AM FM patience. But the surgery take ten hours. In Am FM you can't just cut a segment of nerve out splice it in the virus turns off the nerves in the spinal cord. It's like turning the power in the House with the circuit breaker needed to divert power from somewhere else in tap into that to that supply it's basically like electrical engineering for the human. I think the hardest part for me is the unknown I just I want him to be as functional as possible right and just the day that he can raise both arms and give me a two armed. Hug that'll be a happy day. It's Clinton's surgery day. Curry feeling you. Do this. Somewhat Quinton the reality is setting in we'll take care in. The Gulf today is about stealing nerves from other areas however up his shoulder to get him the overhead reached that he needs. So get a mark out on shoulder I in terms of our shoulders decision the leading to the path. I'll make a marketing decision here. The last area consider is the ribs. Don't want to for surgery Dr Surreal, preps a few different areas marking where he will look for strong nerves. So it's quite an ordeal. Basically get started. During the operation, Dr, Sarah determines the strongest donor nerves are in Clinton's chest. He then takes those functioning nerves and connects them to Clinton's paralyze nerves. So they re connect to the spinal cord once connected signals from the spinal cord to the muscles are reestablished. Or another. Probably the longest day ever like long hardest stays. Challenging, he tells the family the surgery did not go as well as he would've liked and while he was able to transplant and connect nerves in Clinton's elbow, there were not enough sprung nerves to support his shoulder. Quinn will have to have a second surgery I'm disappointed in fact that I could do more friend unfortunately found out the the weakness that was caused by FM had had been a little more widespread than we had initially thought wanted to bounce back strong for Q. and just remember that. You know everything happens for a reason right and that Whatever we can get back we will as fall approaches. The Centers for Disease Prevention and control have already confirmed sixteen cases this year, and for the first time since keeping data, the centers have recognized two deaths related to the disease and this year there's the increased concern of the covid nineteen pandemic. What things are you specifically concerned about this season with respect to a FM This is going to be unlike any other because of what we're seeing with the COVID. One of our concerns is as Kiddos come to urgency rooms with respiratory symptoms. Everybody is testing appropriately, for Rona, virus, but we have to test for other viruses as well. So, in this case, we are reminding our colleagues to not just has grown a virus but to look for inner viruses and. Restaurant for infections that could be related to event. So what's your advice though to parents about signs and symptoms that they should be on the lookout for first and foremost? The thing to remember with a FM is often there is a repeating respiratory illness common cold but ninety, nine, point nine, nine, nine, nine, nine, keep going percent of colds will never result in AF APP it's afterwards if you ever have a child who either shows symptoms of weakness complains of weakness or you notice. They aren't using an arm or a leg in the same way that they normally do. That should definitely prompt you to seek medical attention to get an evaluation. Four year old Camden car and his family have been dealing with the effects of FM for nearly two years while cabins condition has improved it is clear. His young life and body had been forever changed to take care of someone who needs round the clock medical and nursing care is expensive. What kind of toll has it taken on new financially? Build them out. For Guard down check box I'll come back with Bill Maher Fram. So financially I've lost everything. What's on your mind when you think of Camden. Future. I would like to see. Ambience cool. Have a normal activities. More therapies physical therapy during the day Forward. Again. Until there's a cure experimental treatments and physical therapy are the only options and while there's always a risk Clinton's parents say it was one worth taking. After his second surgery and of therapy finally. Progress in the form of normalcy playing catch with Dad. Today is he's continues to get stronger and. He'll brag to you that he can lift a pound or a couple of pounds against gravity an actual weight. So it's it's been fun to see that. But even with the recovery of some of the small things, Quinton still faces a mountain one he will need to continue climbing every single day is an example of resiliency example of perseverance and just works hard every day at it and really doesn't complain. Proud, of, him. As, far as he's Combo, it's not going to continue to slow him down in his future. We WanNa, thank Dr Jen Ashton and her team for that incredible story that's not live for tonight. You can watch our full episodes on Hulu. We'll see right back here tomorrow at the same time. Thanks for staying up with us. Tonight, American. With so much at stake so much online more Americans turn here than any place else ABC News, world, news tonight with David. Muir. We have made it through another week together. America's most wanted program across all television.
Mon. 02/08 - A Live Animated Stage Production... Wait, what?
"Welcome to the county ride home for monday. February eighth twenty twenty one. I'm jackson bird. How the royal. Shakespeare company is using live motion capture to animate a virtual show in real time case. Study of california town who has this hole. Pandemic response thing down three d. printed house has hit the market in long island. And there's actually still more to say about four seasons total landscaping plus some related recommendations. Here are some of the cool things from the news today. One thing. I feel like i haven't spent enough time. Thinking about is how the pandemic will change arts not just what kind of pandemic themed stories will see and have already begun to see but literally how it will change the medium for some things. It's something that a lot of other people have been thinking about. However and some technologies that were previously relegated to low budget. College tinkering are starting to get their moment in the spotlight and the funding to boots. Here's one example. The royal shakespeare company in england is putting on a virtual production using real time animation created by actors in a motion capture space who will interact live with virtual audiences basically they have actors in motion capture suits and facial regained with corresponding avatars of their characters. The audience will be able to see both the actors and their characters as they move around and perform inside a virtual forest scene and as they go about the story. The actors and audience will be able to interact. What exactly that will look like in real time. I don't have a clear sense of. But on their website the royal shakespeare company says quotes audience plus to get holders take on the role of firefly's helping to light the forest and interacting with their mouths track pad or touch screen the actors respond to audience interaction and direction making each performance. Unique and quotes won't many different groups around the world have been working on similar technology. The royal shakespeare company claims to have been the first to pioneer this technology for a live theater performance. Back in two thousand sixteen with their production of the tempest in that performance. The actor who played the spirit ariel was kitted out with sensors that were translated into live animation on stage enhancing the magical sense of the character for audiences as our a artistic director. Gregory doran said at the time the way the technology was being used means quote. The actor becomes the marionettes and the puppeteer at the same time and quotes old now. Almost five years later. Technology has advanced even more allowing them in partnership again with epic games's unreal engine to make more sophisticated of multiple actors plop them into a virtual setting and allow an audience to interact in real time. The show itself is not a complete play like the tempest was but rather a fifty minute experience. Based on the world of shakespeare's a midsummer night's dream led by puck you as the audience will explore the forest and meet other sprites and ferries from the play working to prevent an oncoming threats of destruction. If you want to experience what they're calling simply dream you can get tickets at the lincoln the show notes if you just want to watch. Tickets are free. You don't even need to reserve them in advance but if you want to be a part of audience plus get to interact with the performers. It's ten pounds. And i think you may need to actually be based in the uk to participate in that. Their site checks the compatibility of your device before allowing you to purchase audience plus tickets and no matter which browser device were vpn. Trying to use. I couldn't get mine to be marked as compatible so you can try it yourself but definitely you can tune in for free if you are not in. The united kingdom shows are march twelfth through the twentieth at various times through the afternoons and evenings. So even if you're watching from another time zone you may find one that works for you but getting back to the technology of dream another cool thing that they're doing that as you're on that journey with the fairies if you interact or the actors change things up based on audience response the musical score will change accordingly quoting again from. Sec dream features a symphonic score based on recordings by the philharmonia orchestra conducted by principal conductor and artistic adviser sullivan. The recordings are expanded by music. Created in real time by the movements of the performers this living dynamic soundtrack adapts and interacts with the narrative and the prerecorded orchestral tracks and quotes. I'm super fascinated by this technology. In terms of its impact on both live in virtual theatre in general but also as an interpretation of shakespeare and other older plays you know so often performances of shakespeare set in his time with stuffy elizabethan costumes and settings feeling so intensely old and uninteresting to many people but shakespeare and his contemporaries were cutting edge. They were innovators. They pushed the limits and once he got over the paranoia of this being the devil's work. I think shakespeare would have been really into this giant leap forward in live. Theatrical portrayals are a or director. Dora thinks similarly telling the observer quote this is a twenty first century reimagining of shakespeare's play which is giving us a completely different vocabulary of imagery. That's extraordinary when we did the tempest in two thousand sixteen explored the opportunities that the digital world could give to us. I really did think then quoting the play. This is a brave new world. There's so much opportunity out there. It says if technology is now providing us with this amazing paintbox. We've a lot of very exciting talent that can find uses for those new tools and quotes. He and his team also point out how they hope this will get younger. Generations interested in shakespeare. Thanks to the video game like experience and the fact that it's not the whole play but rather just immersive taste of the world and maybe some kids will be inspired to go read or watch the whole play afterwards. The technology might be a bridge between generations as much as it is between isolated audiences and actors actor and director brennan. Bailey thinks it can go even further. He's been pushing for more institutions to focus on this kind of technology for the past five years and of the applications. He's most passionate about a play performed. Virtually not just for the audience before the actors with multiple actors performing independently from multiple points around the world but they're animated avatars or even holograms of themselves being rendered together in a virtual space with the pandemic pushing funding towards this kind of technology in a more serious way who knows what advances we may see in the near future. The world truly is our sister with how much of the pandemic response has been less than satisfactory. It's nice to hear about places doing it. Rights and think about what we can learn from them and apply to other situations in communities in the spotlight. Today is the university of california. Davis who's response has been so effective. They haven't just protected their campus community but much of the surrounding city is well. Here's what they've done calling. New york times made free corona virus tests twice weekly with overnight results available to all sixty nine thousand five hundred people in the city of davis and hundreds of nonresidents who just work there. It is also trained dozens of graduate students to help with contact tracing recruit hotel and apartment owners to provide free a solution and quarantine housing to anyone in town exposed to the virus and hired some two hundred seventy five undergraduate ambassadors to combat health. Disinformation and hand out free masks. The university has also recently expanded campus. Wastewater testing into davis and in coming weeks plans to administer vaccinations at its current by rescreen centers and bring screening to some public school sites and quotes. They've caught more than eight hundred. Fifty potential outbreaks since the program began in the fall and despite davis being home to a third of yolo county's population it's accounted for only fifteen percents of the counties covid cases and while some universities tried to create their own bubbles and attempted various services like testing but restricted them only to the campus community davis has been unique in expanding to the whole town and this is in part because many of their students are learning remotely so they have less people than usual on campus but also because they recognize that the sooner they can get the whole town back open the sooner they can revive the town's economy and the university budget both of which have taken a huge hit during the pandemic. Uc davis also benefited from starting the fall semester. A bit late and watching the ways other campuses stumbled additionally. They had some pretty forward thinking faculty quoting again. Richard mitchell more a plant geneticist who directs. The uc davis genome center urged the university to let him try to create an inhouse center for corona virus testing by repurposing. A four hundred thousand dollar machine normally used to identify plant dna for agricultural breeding within weeks. Dr mitchell moore's lab was able to screen thousands of samples per day accurately at low cost and with overnight results thence at the stage for frequent wide-scale screen asymptomatic students and inspired health experts to propose a joint public health project with the city and quotes and while not everyone in town is taking advantage of the testing. The ones who are have started treating it almost like an errand twice-weekly they go get tested just to be safe or to enable them to spend time with others who were getting tested regularly. Hundreds of as him dramatic cases have been caught and a few cases were caught before symptoms showed up in the patient's enabling the contagious individuals to be able to isolate more quickly and contact tracers to do their job more easily. According to the new york times epidemiologists. Say davis has the right idea if we truly want to reopen schools and businesses safely and soon this is the playbook masks distance hygiene and cheap rapid tests to detect cases quickly of course by in from officials on all sides and access to university level. Facilities certainly helps. We're right at that time of year. When some people start falling off their fitness goals. I know i tend to struggle to stay motivated with a new routine wants. The shine has worn off trying to stick to my goal of running a couple of times. A week is arduous. When the winter weather seems unending but no matter how tough your goals may seem fit. 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York does stand out for a few reasons as gizmodo explains quotes unlike many smaller. Three d. printed abodes. The riverhead home was built on site rather than constructed in a warehouse and then later transported to the plots designed by h to him and built by squad inc. The riverhead home was also constructed using autonomous robotic construction systems or arcs which is a type of three d. Printing tech created to help decrease build times while also increasing safety due to the need for less human workers the relatively large for three d. printed house. Fourteen hundred square foot abode features three bedrooms and two bathrooms a detached two car garage and a quarter acre lot with the listed price of three hundred thousand dollars. Which is actually reasonably affordable and well priced compared to similar homes in the area squad claims concrete produced by its arc's tech which is used in the homes foundation. Footings and walls is twice as strong as standard industry requirements which means the home should be quite durable to and quotes unlike some of the more modern tiny home style. Three d printing houses. This one looks like a completely typical ranch house albeit a new build with a slightly brutal a-list field thanks to the concrete walls and that concrete exterior isn't the nicest looking in my opinion although they do their best to make it. Look nice and when you look at it closely you can see the layers of horizontal lines that give away. It's three d. printed origins. Kirk anderson the director of operations at squatting. This is the future. Their arcs technology them to make cheap durable houses fast. According cnn three d. printed houses could also ended up having a radical effect on the wallets of potential buyers in america. The cost of construction is fifty percent cheaper than the cost of comparable newly constructed homes in riverhead new york. And ten times. Faster said stephen. King the zillow premier agent who has the three d. house listing and quotes and yes the agent's name is stephen king. Don't think too hard about it. We don't need to manifest a kings ian horror plot around three d. printed homes. What if you wanna learn more about this particular house or the landscape of three d. printed houses in general gizmodo recommends. Youtube creator. jarrett grosses videos. He keeps a finger on the pulse of all the companies working on three printed houses and other automated construction projects so the super bowl commercials yesterday. Were you know not great. But not horrible. The commercial that stephen colbert and his team produced for his late night show might actually have been my favorite. Even though it didn't actually air during the super bowl you can watch the whole thing at the lincoln. The show notes but basically the late show got. Sam elliott to narrate an epic turned hilarious commercial for eight very real bookstore in boone north carolina. Foggy pine books is one of thousands of independent bookstores around the nation. That's been struggling. During the pandemic. so to emphasize the plate of small businesses colbert produced this commercial complete with a testimonial from tom hanks to give foggy pine books a bit of a boost in their online sales but as far as actually during the super bowl commercials go one of the ones that had me actually exclaiming tv. Whoa they went. There was the ad for freelancer marketplace fiver harkening back approximately three hundred and fifty years ago to the twenty twenty presidential election fiber brought four seasons total landscaping to life again. Showing all the different services freelancers could provide if you were not so humble. Landscaping store was suddenly asked to host a conference in watching the extended cut of the commercial online. I noticed an extra gag that honestly turns it from hey decent concept to actually funny for me. Essentially just the discovery of a mysterious fifth season. Who anyways. I bring all this up. Because fibers commercial is not the last we will be hearing from four seasons total landscaping. No there is set. Be a documentary about the small business and confusing debacle entitled four seasons. Total documentary made by emmy nominated director. Christopher stout and producers glen zipper and sean stewart the documentary is still looking for a distributor but is due to complete production this month. Quoting av club. According to its press release the doc will give a firsthand account of the roller coaster journey that one well meaning small business in philadelphia went through when they agreed to host a political press conference in the midst of the most hard fought american election in recent history. Here's what stout had to say about why he decided to make the film. It's an honor and privilege to be able to tell a story that the world has been waiting months to hear after such a hard year. Everyone needed a moment to laugh. Little did we know would come from a press conference that took place across the street from a crematorium down the road from sex shop. This film is a chance to wipe the slate clean not just for four seasons landscaping but for the entire country and quotes. So guess. Keep your eyes peeled for more on that one but if you want another documentary that you can watch right now. Jason recommended this in his most recent media diet update on conti dot org. It's called the painter and the thief. It's a norwegian documentary with gorgeous cinematography about a check painter. Who befriends the man who stole two of her paintings folded glazier. I haven't watched it yet. But jason gave it an a plus and said it's the best movie that he's seen in months and holy heck watching. The trailer was a wild ride. I cannot wait to watch it. Linked to jason's media diet post with the trailer as well as a bunch of other great recommendations. Is you guessed it in the show notes. That is it for today. As always this show was produced by ride home media and khadki dot org i jets and buried. I hope you had event tastic weekend. We'll talk to you again tomorrow.
Gov. Ricketts Explains New Health Directives
"Shop Woodhouse Mazda I today inexperienced woodhouse difference. Find your next Mazda Edward How's Place Mazda Dot com today or you can visit our community location at one, hundred, forty, four and giles shop showroom and take a test drive making your car buying experience easier. This is what House Mazda morning. Gary. Seattle mayor. KABC's morning news. Roseanne Lucy usual suspects greatly have you with us. We're joined a few minutes here this morning. By Nebraska Governor Pete Ricketts after as announcement the other day about. some stricter. Guidelines in in in the face of increasing. Case numbers in Kobe world here in Nebraska Governor Good morning the deb yacht. Wayne thanks for having me on today. How much extra testing are we doing and doesn't that account for the increased numbers? Well. We are certainly doing a lot more testing. If you look back you know just over the last several weeks, we've been testing in the number seven thousand or so we've even had days where we've tested nearly twenty thousand people, and if you go back, you know six weeks ago we were testing more like on a regular basis maybe three thousand people. So we are doing a lot worse ousting and are positively rates at least the way to stay calculate it is below ten percent. It was above ten percent again, if go back to August but the thing I focus on Gary is actually hospitalizations because that's what we talk we. Talked about since the very beginning because at the end of the day the virus, you cannot stop it. You can only slow it down to make sure your preserve your hospital capacity and we are seeing increasing hospitalizations as well. So if you go back and look at the third week of September, we had about two hundred people to hospital As of last night, we had about three hundred and forty three people. So that's why we took steps on Friday. To you know require hospitals to have the capacity to handle people. We also announced our package of forty billion dollars to assist hospitals with staffing, and then for some of the things like. If, you're in a bar, you can you have to have a seat restaurants can have one hundred percent capacity. But again, we want people to have seats there. indoor venues will be fifty percent capacity where they were in phase three eight people at a table at a wedding reception or or you know. You're having funeral receptions or something like that. So some of the things that we had from phase three, we went back to just to again put the focus on trying to slow down this virus and preserve our hostile capacity. The the one that I think may affect businesses most governors the the end or gatherings limited to fifty percent of rated capacity and we're in a place. Of course, we're bars and restaurants were struggling anyway. How long do you anticipate this to remain in effect? Well, the fifty percent capacity indoor venues is not impact bars or restaurants. Those are those can still be how does not does not. indoor venues referred to a place like gymnasiums or our like the health center and so. If you think about the capacity. Health Center and then we talked to the Restaurant Association and how many people were actually going out. We think this actually will. Not Be too onerous, and again, that's one of the things we try to do. It really pains me to restrict personal liberty and have the government tell businesses what to do. So we're trying to have a lighter has possible or putting these restrictions I do I for one I appreciate that light touch as you put it, Friday let me ask you how much. I know there's disagreement how much friction is there between you and some leaders in the medical community both in the state and here locally in Nebraska you see. I don't know there's friction I mean we don't always agree on things and that's a good thing. Right? You don't want group. Thank where everybody's always thinking the same thing You know we know what the overall the goal that we all have observer hospital capacity and take care of people that hasn't changed at all we do have sometimes disagreements about how to get there and Frankly you know again if you're talking to an epidemiologist, they're looking at the spread the disease they're not looking at the bigger picture of things like well, we say cancer screenings down and. Down and being worried about things like increased child abuse, domestic violence, drug, overdose, All the things mental health and go along with in fact, you know six weeks ago or so the CDC put out a report that said that. Dr Mitchell themselves said that you know high school suicide rates were above crow virus deaths. So these are all things we have to take in consideration. As we're thinking about these restrictions we put in place because there are other healthcare costs besides just grow virus who consider. Exactly Let me ask you about the testing again, the test Nebraska. has had at I have. The person I know very well who had to be tested and basically missed a week a work waiting for the results. And I understand that's improving a little bit. But what is the big issue there? We definitely you know just like any company that's growing We have growing pains and we've points had struggled with staffing and You know upgrading our equipment and that sort of thing it's probably GonNa be another week or so before we really. get to a place where we wanted to be but this past week we saw a big improvement We were you know, for example, by Tuesday, we had eighty four percent of our. Our Test Process, and back to people in forty eight hours. So and that's really you know we were. Those back as quickly as possible because we don't want people having to sit out a week like you just described we we know that it takes four days that is too long. So we're working to make changes on the staffing look at other improvements we can make be able to make sure we can turn those around as quickly as possible, and then frankly also you know have these Abbott next now. Cards, which are the antigen tests that are coming from the federal government back and We were analyzing to look to see how it would be able to use those and be able to pull this together in an overall testing strategy winter they coming because we've been hearing about this for a while now that this would be a game changer, you can get results in fifteen minutes. What's what's the timeline on that? Yeah. The well, we we ever Seagram Al fact a lot of long term care facilities have have have had them for the last couple of weeks. I think the important thing to remember about the by. Cars is their emergency authorization. US is only for people who are symptomatic within seth last seven days. So it's not. The way like the our PR. Could detect it if you are not of addict and then get those people make sure they're not affecting other people because you can spread the virus even if you're not symptomatic Abbott by next now, cards only work if you're really symptomatic so different us but still something that we can use to be able to make sure we're so part of the virus. Okay. And again just before we run GOB how long do you anticipate the these restrictions to remain in place that does it all depend on hospitalization rates. Yeah we're going to focus on hospitalizations and we're looking at The one we just put in place we'll run through the member, and again, the only thing we did is we really want people to remember that this is the virus spreads from I. One person so more that you avoid crowded places, close contact and confined spaces that's GonNa slow the spread of the virus. Again, if you'RE GONNA be inside closer than six feet to people that with a poor ventilation, you know that kind of thing. That's the time you should wear a mask because that's when the virus is really going to spread less risk. If you're outside the farther, you are away from people the less chance the virus has spread, and so that's the kind of things we WANNA continue buying people's those three CS. Confined spaces, close contact, and crowded places. Very good. Thanks for the time. Appreciate you coming on. Thanks very much for having. Governor Peter Records.
Prostate-Specific Antigen (PSA) Testing: A Urologist's Perspective
"This is male clinic. Talk say curated weekly podcast for physicians and healthcare providers. I'm your host Daryl Cheka, a general internist. At mayo clinic in Rochester, Minnesota. Prostate cancer is a very common malignancy in men second only skin cancer, despite the fact that it's one of our more treatable malignancies. It remains the second leading cause of cancer deaths in men when diagnosed early it has an excellent prognosis the five year survival rate approaches one hundred percent in those with local regional disease, although screening for prostate cancer is available. The use of these screening tests has been somewhat controversial and recommendations regarding its use confusing to help us sort out prostate cancer screening, we have as our guest today. Dr Mitchell Humphries chair of the department of urology at mayo clinic Arizona and dean of the male clinic school of continuous professional development. Thanks for joining us today. Mitch thanks so much for having me. It's my pleasure. Well, let's start out by talking about PSA that's been on. Everybody's radar screen. Because it's still difficult to know how we're supposed to use that test. What is PSA? And where does it come from? So it's a great question. So PSA is essentially Therion protease of Calkins family. It's produced by both normal in neoplastic prostate epithelial cell, but it's also founded minimum amounts and other organs such as the liver pancreas salary grants and the breast even female the whole purpose of PS day is the cleave portions of the semen to liquefy, which is important in fertilization or reproduction. We think about PSA the half life is anywhere from two point two to three and a half days. And it does not bury during the day cover when we talk about PS day. It is Andhra Anderson dependent the confusing part about PS day is that it's not just one in Zaire when we talk about prostate specific antigen. It includes a whole family of it. So to really understand. It. It's really produced as a pro enzyme called pro PSA by the secretary cells of the prostate where then put into the Lumine of prostate where peptide is subsequently removed to create what we consider active PSA, and that's the functional PSA this ins, I'm undergoes pretty allies this, and it generates an inactive form of PSA which can enter the bloodstream and circulate in unbound state, which is typically referred to as three PSA alternatively active. PSA can also enter the circulation where tend to be bound by protein such as awful one anti KEMA trips in which is the most common one. But it can also be complex alpha to micro gobbling. And I go down this pathway, not to confuse the issue. But to explain a little bit more about PSA and its biggest ice forms and how they could be. So what? Mean is when we think of prostate cancer? What happens is because that sell your proliferation. The prostate those prostate gland tend to lose their basil cells with disruption of basement membrane. So what happened is more pro PSA and truncated forms have direct access to the circulation and more PSA has leaked into the blood. This kind of principle behind the free to total bound PSA ratios that we can talk talk about a little bit later, but essentially the higher the free PSA ratio. Remember when I say free, that's kind of the inactive form of PS day. Then that's the more mature deactivation. It's more reflective of normal BPH and prostate tissue versus a low free PSA. So you're getting more of the active the pro the truncated forms of PSA, which is more reflective of cancer overproduction of PSA. So that's one of the. Tests that you can use to provide clarity to PS day getting a PSA free PSA ratio that ratio is low higher risk that elevated PSA due to cancer that ratio is high the chance that that PSA is elevated due to benign caused. Women's when was the PSA introduced as a screening test for prostate cancer. And then what happened as a result of its introduction. In terms of how many prostate cancers we found? Piece actually has quite an interesting history. Social, I it was first discovered in cement in nineteen sixty six and it actually started life as they forensic tests by law enforcement in the cases of suspected sexual assault. It was first discovered in the blood and approximately nineteen seventy nine, and it was I used a screen for prostate cancer, not until nineteen eighty seven and since then FDA approved it as a screening tool in nineteen ninety four it's been used as a screening tool what we've seen is detecting prostate cancer, an earlier stage cancer detected by PSA or more likely to be organ confined and treatable in PSA detects prostate cancer, an average of six to thirteen years before otherwise be clinically apparent. So from what you're saying. It sounds like PSA's a pretty effective screening test. Well, it is but. There's a complex answer to that. And it depends on how you use it. Are you looking at it from an individual standpoint or you looking at it from a healthcare back economic standpoint. And I think any time we talk about a screen test. We really have to talk about what is our goal, and that's to detect disease before it becomes clinically relevant evident that we have the ability to intervene before can have an impact on somebody like in to meet the demand of screening test that has to have high sensitivity or a high chance of detecting disease, while missing very few cases, it needs to have high specificity or not falsely diagnosing these when it's not present. It has to be reproducible, reliable safe can bean inexpensive. And it must lead to a treatment that improves the patient's quality of life or extend their life. So we think about PSA it is very convenient and expensive generally relies on just a blood sample. And Jen there's. The general belief that if you find cancer early you can treat it early. And so there is advantage where the controversy really this is around sensitively specificity, and what happened PSA not detect cancer. But it basically stratifies and tells us which patient the biopsy biopsies are not as benign as detecting blood test that requires by seeing the prostate or even imaging there's idea socio with that there's complications associated with that. And so that's where a lot of the controversy. And I think when we talk about PSA screening, we have to really look and see what the government has done in regard. You know, there's an organization United States, preventive services task force US P SPF, and they tell us what we should do all screening calling screening breast cancer screening prostate cancer screening and a couple years ago, they came out with a recommendation that you should not do PSA screening. And the reason they came up with this is because there's been two randomized trial regarding PSA screening, the first of which was a US trial called the PL CO trial the prostate lung, colorectal ovarian cancer screening trial, this US trial. There was a property. Seventy six thousand men aged fifty five seventy five and they were randomized either routine screening PSA once a year, or what's called usual care. So patients could have BSA screening if they wanted it in what they showed is that in. Screened group and that group a only approximately eighty five percent of them underwent screening. And unfortunately, fifty two percent of the usual care group had PSA screening. And at the end of their study period. What they showed that the PSA screening group had twenty two percent more cases of prostate cancer detected. But this did not reach statistical significance. Really if you think about this study it compared a screened population mostly to an opportunistic screened population. So it didn't really answer that question. And the fact that the study group was contaminated because forty four percent of men had their PSA test of prior to even entering the study shows that there was a methodological problems with that particular study. But that is what the United Services or the United States, preventive services task force base. The recommendations on when they gave it a great deal. Recommendation. There's been other studies actually larger study there was the ER SDP study, which was the European randomize study for screening of prostate cancer. It was one hundred eighty thousand men, and what they did is they routinely screened patients with PSA every four years versus no PSA screening all and in their nine year data they found a reduced risk of death from prostate cancer by twenty percent that's significant and their recent publication where they just released their thirteen year data. They increase the cancer death rate reduction twenty seven percent. So in other words, seven hundred eighty win men had to be screened to prevent one death and twenty seven men had to be diagnosed with prostate cancer to prevent one those are pretty profound numbers where really shows the value of screening and the impact of the there's been other studies such as Goldenberg trial, which screen. And for PS day and they reduce prostate cancer death by forty percent. And there's several other trials that should be maturing in the next couple years, that's the pivot trial. There's also a protect trial coming out of Britain. And a Japanese prostate cancer screening trial that should add further light to the conversation. But when you look at all this data together, there was a prostate cancer world, congress consensus in two thousand thirteen just that for men aged fifty sixty nine level one evidence demonstrating PSA testing reduces prostate cancer specific mortality, and the instance of metastatic disease, and if anybody has ever treated somebody with metastatic prostate cancer, if not a not a nice way to go. And if anybody remembers any patients prior to the PSA era when we had asked that foster taste and we've found late days. The we've completely changed the disease course, I do. Call those patients, and they were not a pretty sight. They they had a great deal of bone pain, spinal stenosis, all kinds of problems. Attend. The mayo clinic health care leader intensive offered. Three times in two thousand nineteen March June and November gain insights into the operations of an integrated healthcare practice. Learn leadership and administrative skills that can be used at your organization and discover the best practices that have established male clinic as a trusted healthcare provider registration is open for more details. Visit C E dot mayo dot EDU. Join us here weekly at mayo clinic docs, we discuss best practices and burning questions. Subscribe today, using itunes or your favorite podcasting app. Let's talk a little bit about the problems with the PSA specificity. I had a patient last summer who's who had had several PSA's done in the past usually been around one point zero in this year's came back over twenty and I suspected there was something unusual nut specifically prostate cancer. But on further questioning turns on just went on a five day bike trip, and when we checked him after voiding his bicycle it went right back down to normal. What are some other reasons? PSA can go up unrelated prostate cancer. You're exactly right PS day does have its limitations. Then there's other reasons that the PSA can be elevated one thing BPH can cause Novick PSA bigger prostates produce more PSA, inflammation infections such as prostitites it and causing increased PSA urinate tract infection can cause increased PSA prostate biopsies or any prostate surgery. Or if the urinary tract has been instrumented either with a fully catheter anything else will cause an increase in PSA, generally as we age PSA increases as well and not to get too far into the weeds. But there's certain imaging they can cause both elevations the PSA such as with the process and Gan other thing, and you can see temporary small rises the PSA with recent Jackie Latian rigorous digital rectal exam by clean hepatitis. And 'cause increase in PSA, and there's also factors that can. Reduce PSA artificially e- crease value which should be considered such as by Alfred duct tape hitter medications that can do the PSA by fifty percent energy. Deprivation therapy can reduce the PS day. Various assets can vary. The PSA by twenty five percent depending on win. Their PSA was drawn. How often equipment normalized how old the agents are in? You can also the small decreases in PSA with debt drug use in the OB city, and even dial hemodialysis peritoneal, dialysis don't alter total PSA, but hemodialysis can't alter free PSA. So you have to think about that in contact for hemodialysis patients. It seems like ten them has swung a little bit more towards the middle. Now in terms of when we should be using PSA from we should not be using it to using it under certain circumstances. How should we be using this screening test in I think the most important part of PSA? And I think what it done it a highlight of the problem of over treatment and over diagnosed, but I think with any test. The most important part is really have that conversation with your patient the risk benefit limitation of PSA. And from my opinion. I believe the most important PSA person can get in their forty because there's been some great long-term natural history. Studies that show the medium PSA and your forty should be zero point zero point. And if you're higher than that, your lifetime risk of developing prostate cancer is very high and if it's lower than that your lifetime risk is very low. So I think the ques-. That we struggle with today. How often should we get you should be once a year every five years, and I think using some of the natural history. Data can help us stratified that the other thing is when do we stop checking? If that patient has so many Comber bidders that their lifespan is less than ten years because of the late nature in the slow growing nature of most prostate cancers the benefit of PSA probably fades away, and those men are seventy five and have a PSA of less than three their lifetime risk of dying from prostate cancer. So love it screening, probably isn't appropriate. So we have all kinds of things to help us with PSA the old age corrected norms. I think have kind of gone out of style. I think the most important thing is really to start thinking about Connecticut, how we use PS day in some of those different things for doing terp. Let's spend just a couple minutes talking about the other screening tests for prostate cancer, the digital rectal exam. Is this affective is should be continued doing it. So there's controversy with this as well. But from my opinion from urology standpoint, I think there's no substitute for good physical. Bam, and there's been data that has been shown that combining PSA with digital record them more effective than either PSA alone or a digital rectal damn alone. I think can real reveal a lot of things about the prostate, including integration d'alerte as well as any potential boss round, the ph. And if you just look at digital damn prostate cancer detecting approximately thirty percent of individuals admirable digital, but just because they have a digital abnormally direct with them doesn't mean they have prostate. I think part of the controversy with direct them this because there's no large university agreement about what constitutes an abnormal digital rectal. A lot of people say, I know what normal is until I don't. Feel it. And so you can think the same thing when it comes to the different. Finally, what about prostate cancer prevention? I've gotten some patients who come in saying, you know, my dad prostate cancer, his father had prostate cancer is anything I can do to prevent me from developing prostate cancer. Yeah, if the rape, and there's been double recent studies, the literature data about prostate cancer prevention, probably the most publicized one is the prostate cancer prevention trial, where they treated eighteen thousand bent over fifty five who had a normal digital rectal exam and a PS three and they were randomized either to benefit five milligrams a day or placebo in their five years because remember what we know about prostate cancer is that with energy deprivation therapy. Prostate cancer will shrink die and go way going revision, but it won't be a total cure. So potentially the thought behind this trial was if you manipulate that hormonal act of locally on the prostate with minimal. Defect. Can you prevent prostate? And what they showed in that first trials they were able to decrease the risk of prostate cancer by twenty five percent. Some of the initial reports came back those thing. Well, you're decreasing prostate cancer by twenty five percent, but you're increasing bad prostate cancer high-grade prostate cancer to another degree. So you're selecting out a worse malignancy, and maybe preventing lower grade malignancy that don't really need treatment. Anyway. However further analysis showed this really not to be true, the absurd affect they noted in that follow paper was really due to a detection bias, but the USA finished drive for the provincial prostate cancer still controversial there was another study called the reduced trial, which is which was the truce ride and prostate cancer events trial, which was only eight thousand men, but what they found there. They've found less Gleason thick prostate cancer by. Twenty seven percent in didn't change the risk of developing high-grade prostate cancer, however with both of these trials they commented that the use of by Alfred hitter for prostate cancer prevention did increase the risk of erected, erectile dysfunction and decreased libido those Ben. So it should be considered. There's been some other trials in this base. The trial looked at St. versus might be Linea or both of these. There's been the hope trial that looked at some of these other medications was vision health study into when you look at these alternative medications like bite him the Baleno them bite Amin's. The there's been no affect or influence on the detection or prevention of prostate cancer with those other trial. So at the end of the day. There's something to this prostate cancer prevention theory, but at this current time, there's still a lot of controversy that goes. Around the issue. So I wouldn't say that it is really recommended at the current day with our correct data that exact pathways has been defined. We've been talking about prostate cancer screening with Dr Mitchell Humphries chair of the department of urology at mayo clinic, Arizona, Mitch thank you so much for your time. Great discussion. If you've enjoyed mayo clinic trucks podcasts, please subscribe, stay healthy and CNN last week.
Rebecca Hardcastle - Founder of the Institute for Exoconsciousness
"Zach at that caffeine. I here we go hatred told Captain Ron here for Tony Sweet and we are at the twenty nine thousand nine. UFO Congress and Rebecca hardcastle rights. been kind enough to sit down and talk with me for a minute. She among many many many many many other things. She's a leading expert in consciousness an extraterrestrial contact. She's the founder and Director of the Nonprofit Institute for EXO consciousness. That word which was given to you. Let's start right there. Isn't that means that we all I have the ability to have contact with. Et's that's exactly what it means interviews over. I've got this one now. We we at the institute believe that humans and have an innate ability it's part of our consciousness with an innate ability to connect communicate and Co create my support with extraterrestrials and multinationals. That's all of the members of your group and yourself are all contacts. Yes we are all what we term arm exa conscious humans so conscious humans. Okay so what that means is that we are experiencers it could be a multidimensional mentioned nature like an angelic being or could be an extraterrestrial type beam but that we have engaged and been contacted acted in communicated with these beans long enough that we are now able to consciously have contact. You mean it's initiated from you as opposed to being initiated elsewhere all that's Incredib- two ways but we can initiate contact and we expect a to have a response and I have not heard much about That I've heard these guys that can summon that you have ots but I have not heard about the actual contact. That's incredible and just to be and it takes time. It's not something that happens overnight because a lot of times contact happens and it just goes gets dumped in our unconscious. We don't remember or have like little maps or you know maybe unsettled feeling in our stomach. But what we as extra conscious humans have been able to do is take that experience and literally integrated into who we are. As humans. So the human is the keyword not extraterrestrials or multidimensional. The Keyword is human. So who are we now As an extra conscious self. How has that ability with? Ns to be conscious and manifest that. How has that changed who we think we are? And and how we operate in the world. Yeah Yeah it's amazing. I love this idea of you guys making technology and creating art it creating things with extraterrestrials. We are co creators. And that's the whole whole mission of the institute is is to invest in and support extra conscious humans that are co creating peer to peer so on an equal level peer to peer with extraterrestrial terrestrial are multidimensional so. We're not doing it by ourselves as humans but we're doing it in a collaborative way of you in consciousness where we go out in the conscious universe we make contact we connect we get information and we bring it down to our three D. body to our human body the end we do something with our contact. We don't just keep looking at our marker you know reliving our our contact but we actually go out and we we write music we make our and we make brand new technologies. We do we we. We make new science great idea this whole idea that a lot of the world doesn't accept this obviously as we don't but the idea is that well you know what we're GonNa work with the keys and do something now you you think that would be able to work with you. Create some technology that would sort of show the rest of the world. Look what we're doing. I think that's happening. And the and the two who I was. I guess the Word Seated S. E. E. D. D. so I was seated. I believe in this work with two major people in my life. One was Dr Ruth over. who was here in Arizona and she ran one of the longest running Et experts recruits in the nation. And I was with her. Probably eight or ten years passed away and she was my mentor. My coach she had a library three books deep. I mean I just so many things I learned from her but the key ingredient then learn from her. was that when I left the group to go to work with Dr Dr Mitchell. When I left the group I realized here's a group of twenty people? POPs point people all. Et experiences and out of that group. In in Mitchell's group is in no end. Dr Ruth over in Dr Ruth over group. You know multiple books. I don't know fifteen. Twenty books are written people bring forth All kinds of of medical technologies. And I'm thinking twenty people how to twenty people don't do that. You can get twenty people in a room and gather them maybe once a month month and you know they're not going to have that many books that many inventions is just not gonNA statistically it's not gonNa happen then I went through that and then I went went on from Ruth and moved to Washington. DC Walk with work with Dr Mitchell worked in contract so contract was is zero Point Energy Organization nation. We were studying zero point energy. This is brilliant zero point energy consciousness an extraterrestrial presence and he. We knew that you need it all three ingredients in order to have this move out into culture so I'm working with him. I'm working with these scientists from all around the world and guess what. Et experiencers start showing up with these amazing inventions. They live out in some hinterland of Idaho and did they say that. That's where the really. Yeah I see blank when somebody seems to me. This could be definitive proof. What's totally definitive proof? But whatever you never heard come on you never hear like Oh guess what I invented this a lot of experiencers. That's why we formed the institute because a a lot of experiences are very frustrated. Because you know can you get a pattern. Can you get investors. Can you move this forward. That's the whole purpose of the institute due to is to invest in support. These people know so that we do we call it literally building an exa conscious civilization and you WanNa talk about stillness oldest stigma and nonsense that goes along and that's how they keep things from moving forward and they keep and there's kind of this push poll and you so you know there's there's a healthy aspect to push pull because You know secret. Societies for example held a lot of technology that they didn't bring forth because because they said you know during the time that you know well human consciousness isn't ready for it you know they're not ready so some of the push. Poll I think is is okay but we just really feel as an institute you know if we can if we can help help you make a living and bring forth in your invention. People have had a hard time with this so I think it's really great to help them and if they could yet do something good out of it. It's probably therapeutic. The purpose of the institute is that we help each other. So I wrote this little network among each other just you the of this group of people like minded people copy till that's wonderful and you worked on the free thing the survey I did. That is an incredible survey. We touched on. This is a long time coming. We know they did years. No I mean I mean after years finally needed someone to do this and then free did it. I thought finally finally yeah and the qualitative quantitative aspects of it five years over a time of five years forty forty two hundred a survey people from one hundred countries. I mean it's fantastic so ray Ray Hernandez who heads free restored to me and said you know he he rebecca. I always say yes. I don't know this is my thing I say yes. He Goes Rebecca chapter for me on the extra conscious analysis of the free survey. And I'm like yeah sure ray so raise since it to me and here's all of this dump of information I'm like what am I. What am I gonNA Literally Ron? I literally I literally just sat with that information probably for three days. I just kept reading it. Because I'm like I'm not gonNa just kind of rubber stamp this I I just I need to find. I need to listen to the experience. I'm a therapist. So it's like okay. I need to listen among other things. You have your resumes seventeen pages. I skip that I think I need to listen to what they have to say and it was really. It was just a remarkable time because after I listened to them for about three days all what a sudden everything was kind of like a a gestalt whole a sec. All of a sudden. I'm like I get it. I get it and that Ah from that survey gave me so much Weight and authenticity around exa conscious. One of the things I came up with as a result of that survey was immediately. I saw that we humans are CD. Six was so allan. Hi Nick Info invented the first three Close encounters that. Did you see the crafted you communicate with the graft and and then shock fillet came out with e four so for Jock fillet. It was How how did you reality change? I can. He was comparing this whole continuum new of consciousness. How did your reality? And then Stephen Greer c-5. So what's what's this craft am I kinda craft and my having this mutual absolutely. Yeah so am I having. I'm having this mutual wall communication with this craft and all of a sudden I after reading the free survey. I'm like what's really happening. Today is X. accomplishments and they are see six and that means that at their self has as a human theirself has actually become conscious of this phenomenon and they are actually doing something. Something interesting interesting do you think You say that this is that we all have the civility uh-huh. Have you worked with people that want to contact. At and help them to do. I have done that some but not not a lot. I've been more of a sounding board and listener for people that have had contact but I I do. Sometimes it makes me I like people will come to me. And it's like it'd be one man came to me. And he said I mean he was like in the sixties or something like I've been sitting in my backyard for fifteen years. Wait for for them to show up and I just Kinda you just want to say comfortable come where yeah. Maybe they're not gonNA come to your backyard. You know. Maybe you need to go into your psychic intelligence. Maybe you need to learn about who about your intuition and maybe you need to open yourself with other forms of of enlightenment instead of sending in your backyard waiting for something to happen. You need to go out and become proactive. Do you feel the conscious happens in our brain or do you feel that our brain is like a receiver that taps into collective consciousness. Like Kokoschka record. I think As did Edgar Mitchell I think consciousness beyond brain. Yeah well one of the because he wrote the whole ooh quantum hologram that the the quantum field is bringing us information. And that's you know we're processing it but I believe that we not only receive seve information in our brain. I think that we also transmit it and beyond that I think that we actually co created so we actually go in and change it with our consciousness assists while what do you think the experience is. Do you think that it's physical beings from another star system coming here or do you think this is the dimensional. I think it's both I think he's always been both. And I think just maturing as a species and there's a culture one of the things that I don't know much about star language. Okay we'll start language for example so It's spoken but it's also written so one of our projects at the institute is called the Rosetta Stone. So it's talking about how we move. Star language made stream. The the Rosetta Stone moved so some start languages written in hieroglyphic. So when when you work with symbolically as symbolic gee language system like hieroglyphic you. You have to use your consciousness where you can hold that symbol and that symbol can have levels dimensions of meeting. And they're all true and they're all true so that's why we talk a lot. About extra conscious Schumer's we have multidimensional consciousness. So we can actually when we go out into the field we can. We can pull information and assimilate it and bring it down into our three D. human body and it's going to a beach true they're out in the field but it's also going to be true here some of these people want to contact bt people that aren't experiencers won T. Sometimes I feel like there's still careful what you wish for because maybe you're not ready for it or it's got to be hard and I also think that it's sometimes you may not emotionally be ready for contact but you haven't in your blueprint like you. That's one of the things that came out of Edgar Mitchell survey was the real strength of CO creation. That's so many people in that survey were co creators. They they initiated the contact. They knew that they had co-creator agreement to work with these beings. And it's it's our human responsibility to grow up and to emotionally able to deal with it and not shut down and not going right. You're talking about working with so in general or is there an overall message that are giving us I see a theme and overall yeah part of that's part of the evolving humanity volving human consciousness. Because it's not some people draw this picture of I call it a hierarchical structure of Et's where various these brilliant e. t.'s. And they just know everything and then and the next layer is down below. Ironically refer stupid human. Sorry stupid humans. And I'm like no we are peer-to-peer CO CO creative beads. That are working together. And if if we as an earth species who are genetically connected to them. If we're not progressing I mean they're not progressing. It's like it's like in a family if you have one person in your family then. And they're not progressing that is is that is affecting you as a family and that's no different. There's an entanglement they're talking this morning that this is a natural thing a normal normal thing and it's just part of our evolution to work with them and interact with them. It's like a normal thing isn't some they're way ahead of us. These are coexisting beings which is sorta interesting. It makes a very different point of entry for people I mean if you have a hierarchical I'm stupid. They're smart point of entry. That's not going to shut down the entry because why bottle. I think people do that in in in in the real world if we think of them as physical beings from another star system they have the technology to get here therefore they're smarter than us because they would have to Be But if you think of the other way with the consciousness and stuff that it's a little bit that's true and I think a lot of and it really when you think about consciousness just in science and I've I've been a conscious science for I don't know probably ten or fifteen years for pre fifteen years not very long but consciousness science as a science. The answer is probably only about fifty years old only about fifty years old so we can think of a mechanical universe. I where Things were kind of like clockwork like mechanics or we can think of the universe and cosmology as organic and alive and conscious chartered. And that's only really been happening scientifically assure it's been happening with you know Indigenous people and thinkers and that sort of thing religious people for much longer than that but for science. This is really a new. It's a new field and and we don't really have all the tools to deal with it. That's why I feel extra conscious. Humans are so important because we are kind of the Van Guard. That's trying to put ourselves out there and say okay cozma logically I we have a conception that this universe and the field of my mind is organic and pontious is real goal for this group opposites. Try to spread this word or is it was the overall goal. It's interesting because I was in Brazil Two years ago I go to Brazil to work. Everything everything you do is insane. It's like every time you just. Oh I was. I taught a course you follow G. O.. As in Brazil I examined this science thing. It's so I remember Zil and I'm giving a talk of course be translated so I say five words this back and forth. It's dragging they love. They love Alexa consciousness. And so A young man who lived at the headwaters of the Amazon just a wonderful young man gets up after I got got done speaking and said how do you know you're going to be successful course me I could talk so I just kind of like rattled off an answer but truth was this. That bothered me for probably months afterwards. I'm like law hour. We're GONNA know were successful and I just I'm really I was grinding on that question. Really just cut me up short and so what happened was I had a been for the past probably five years. I've been studying trans humanism current so I started digging through all also a brief pause to hug right now so is the hugs on. We'll get back to the interview here. It's all part of the conference folks that you get that live feel old different. I think it's great and so I I. I saw that this That people were writing about what. What a success how they would know if trench humanism was successful but what the world would look like translate minutes and was successful and I started reading their documents and it it it truly deeply inspired me to thank to start thinking that way like what our culture look like? If if x subconscious Schuman's and extra conscious civilization was successful. Yeah and so. I'm writing a book about that right now. So that's an and really contrasting. The two insane you know this is what a transhumance civilizations going to look like. We're all moving into it right now. We're all some are more aware than others but it's happening the rollouts going on but like what if this rollout went on. And what if this. What if they're really not that different? And what do we have to you offer to. Maybe for example I just wrote a book. Recently how extra conscious Schuman's guide our speech fearing future inner spirit time and what that book was about. was that how much the space sector needs. EXA conscious humans. I mean if you're going to go into space would you like somebody with you head missing time sure. Would you like somebody with you. That was telepathic. And can talk of the computers. Went Down would would you want somebody that knew how to dissolve their body and re embody it. Of course nobody would ever think of this. But that's brilliant. Of course you so I kind kind of go through in the book just kind of moved through all these briefly but then what I do is I can. Textual is the institute into space sector sector and talk about three primary ways that that we could influenced space sector and why they need us. The stuff that you think about is so so amazing. Who would it's incredible that you think of these things? I really appreciate that you think about those things. I appreciate your inbox about spreading the word and thanks for coming in on truth be told and sharing that with us. I appreciate this. This is Catherine for Tony. Sweet truth be told here at the twenty nine thousand nine. UFO Congress sealer awesome awesome Zack.