20 Episode results for "Dr Jordan Peterson"

Dr. Jordan Peterson

The Charlie Kirk Show

00:00 sec | 1 year ago

Dr. Jordan Peterson

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And we're to help froze, get the job done with the products and brands you trust technology to keep your job on track job site, delivery, to save you time at both pricing on over four thousand items every day to save you money when you've got a job, we're on the job. The Home Depot. More saving. More doing. Hey, everybody. Welcome to this edition of the Charlie Kirk show. Got a huge treat for you. My exclusive interview with the great Dr Jordan Peterson. I sat down with him at a turning point USA event and had the opportunity to interview him in front of over nine hundred young conservative women, enjoy this amazing interview, and please. If you're enjoying this show, go press. Subscribe on apple podcast wherever platform. You're listening on go down leave us a question. Give us a rating. If you notice we are doing amazing on the ratings. It's because of you and it really does help every single day. Give us five stars helps keep the leftists away. All all kidding aside. Thank you for your support of the show. Thank you for the support of the sponsors police. Enjoy this amazing conversation with the great the one, the only doctor Jordan Peterson. Doctor, thank you so much for, for taking time to be here with this unbelievable audience crowd of angry young. White men is. Yeah. Exactly I was reading one of the articles on you earlier. I think it was from the New Yorker it said Dr Peterson's doctrine of masculinity. I kind of look around at a young women's leadership summit getting a standing ovation. It's a little bit different than the narrative. They've been trying to paint about you recently. Well, no, the, the more identity politics leaning media types that have been covering what I'm doing. Have very difficult time with it because they can only see the world through their ideological lens. The lens that they use, basically assumes that the world is populated by groups above all, and that every individual within that group is nothing but a mouthpiece for the group. And it's an it's let's say claims for power. I'm trying to help people put themselves together as individuals. But that isn't part of that narrative, because within that narrative framework, which are characterized and other people as well as sort of postmodern slash Neo Marxist. Even those, those two things don't fit together very, very logically. In that narrative of there, aren't any individuals. We're just groups and power. And so when they talk about me. They have to put me group oriented category of one form, another, and it's often radical, right? Or it's male or or it's whatever white racist, racial, that's the other one. But that's not what it's about, as far as I'm concerned, so. Right. And your your book, which is fantastic. By the way, thank you. Is it still? Number one. It was number one for we found. This up and down. It's been number one in about eight countries. Now I think something like that. And tastic it talks about the individual what eight individual can do to improve their life as an antidote to chaos and what I love about your teaching is that you're brutally honest. Life is suffering. Yeah. Well, no. It's a. So I've been, I've been on this tour of one form or another, since January, and we've gone to about forty cities, something like that. There's probably about another forty or so on the roster in the US and Canada and the UK and Europe and Australia and. You know, part of what I'm doing in the tour is laying out a conceptual landscape and part of it part of the basis of that is the blunt truth. I suppose that life has a tragic element because we're vulnerable all of us, and we know it, which is particularly human curse. Let's say we're aware of vulnerability and it's not just vulnerability in the tragic sense. It's also the human proclivity for evil that makes the tragedy of life even worse than it would otherwise have to be. And you could say that, that's a basic truth. You could even say that. That's a basic truth with regards to the meaning of life. You know, it's a pessimistic way of looking at it in some sense, but it leads to an optimistic conclusion, all of us have to face our limitations and, and, and, and malevolence in the world and the possibility that will be be be betrayed or betray other people and acting properly, and that's a heavy burden. But the truth of the matter is. As far as I'm concerned that each of us has enough potential character power of character. Let's say if it's properly manifested to contend with in a noble way and to rise above it, and to transcend deal with it in large part because we can make the world, a much better place than it is for each of us individually and for our families, and for our community, and we can constrain malevolence, at least in our own hearts, and, and perhaps have a positive effect on those around us as a consequence, and that actually does make things better and we actually can do that. And that's where the meaning in life is to be found, and that, meaning that goes along with the adoption of that kind of responsibility is actually the antidote to the suffering, you know, that perfectly well, because all of you need a reason to get out of bed in the morning, especially on a rough morning. You know, when things aren't going so well, in your life, and there will be plenty of times when things aren't going so well in your life. And you still need to reason. Get up and get moving and get out there. And if you have adopted the responsibility at an individual level, to make things better given how bad they are. If you've dotted the responsibility to make things better. Then you have a reason to get up. And so one of the things that I've been stressing to people is that there's very little difference between the meaning in life that gives you fulfillment, and that, engages you in existence and the willingness to shoulder as much individual responsibility, as you can possibly handle. Those are the same things, and that's a really useful thing to know. And you kind of know this. Right. Everybody knows this, because first of all, if you're not living up to your responsibilities, even to take care of yourself, the probability that you're going to be ashamed of that at some level is extraordinarily high, and so your own soul tells you that you're Inara, so to speak. But also, if you look at who you spontaneously admire, which is a good indication of where your value system really sits you'll see that the people. Admire are always people who take responsibility for themselves and responsibility for their family and responsibility for their community. You know, we were cynically, it's often considered that we admire. Let's say the rich and successful because of their status and their and their wealth and their power. But, but that's a very shallow and very trivial. And I also don't really believe that it's true. I think that the people we'd Mirer people who conduct themselves admirably in life, and, and you get a spontaneous admiration as a consequence of that, and that's a call from, from the deepest reaches of your being to, to imitate into follow in that pathway, and you can do that, so well, and so that's not a narrative that fits very well, with the whole identity politics. Collectivist notions of how humankind is constituted. So let's talk about that. And so for those in the room that are not totally familiar with this idea of Postmodernism and identity. Politics where did this come from? And what is your nalysts where it stands today? What is the true agenda? Those people that are pushing Postmodernism identity politics, so on and so forth. Well, I would say that the, the ground the intellectual groundwork for for Postmodernism was probably laid in, in France in the late sixties and early seventies. And it was mostly laid by people who were at one point Marxist, types, they were radical left to send. I mean that was very common, especially in France at that time, because there was an immense student Revolutionary Movement in France, probably bigger there than anywhere else in the world, except perhaps the United States. And the problem was is that the leftist narrative ran into some major problems in the late sixties and early. Seventies, the basic leftist narrative, is the radical leftist narrative, I shouldn't say, just, just as a point of clarity that there is utility for political belief across the spectrum from the left to the right, right. Because what the right tends to do is to make a case for the utility of hierarchies and what the left tends to do is say, well, look. One of the things you have to understand about. Hierarchies is they tend to dispossess people so that they stack up at the bottom, and so you need people to speak for the dispossessed, and you need people to speak on behalf of hierarchies. And so that's the political spectrum, and there should be a dialogue between those two groups constantly because you want to keep your hierarchies functional and intact and healthy. But you wanna make sure that they don't alienate people who aren't succeeding in the is because then they stack up at the bottom, and that's held for them, and it's not good for the stability of society in general. So you need the dialog, but clearly people can go too far on the right. And they can go too far on the left. They go too far on the right? I think when they start talking about ethnic and racial superiority. And we've kind of balk Stati, and we kind of know, when that's gone too far when they go too far on the left is a much more difficult thing to, to determine conceptually. I think the left wingers go too far when they start talking about, for example, equality of outcome, which isn't absolutely catastrophic doctrine. Anyways, what, what had happened at the end of the sixties was that the evidence that the extreme leftist experiments, had failed catastrophically became so overwhelming that even the radicals couldn't in all good conscience support an affiliation with those systems anymore. And I think the real death blow to the idea of communism as an acceptable moral solution came with the publication of Alexander Solzhenitsyn, Gulag Archipelago in the early seventies, I would highly recommend. I'm dead serious about this. I would highly recommend that you read that book. It's one of the seminal books of the twentieth century certainly, one of the most important attended books that were written in in twentieth century. And the reason that it's so important to read, it is not only because it documented the absolute catastrophe of the Soviet system and by implication, the Maoist system and the system that that obtained in Cambodia and in Venezuela. More recently in North Korea. He's catastrophically murderous systems. It documented their excesses. But that isn't the particular contribution of the book that particular contribution of the book is that it showed that the catastrophe of the system wasn't an aberration in relationship to radical leftist thought, but the logical conclusion of it, and there was an idea. It was pushed hard because people had been documenting what was happening horrifically, the Soviet Union really from the nineteen twenties onwards. And of course, the revolution only happened in one thousand nine hundred so the catastrophe starting to pile up right away, as soon as the revolution occurred people attempted to finesse that by saying that it was well, it was a cult of personality. The catastrophe could be laid at the feet of Stalin and that, that wasn't real communism. Despite the same thing that wasn't real come every time, it's yes. Well, that's the thing. And so, but, but by the nineteen seventies, the early nineteen seventies it was clear that, that narrative wasn't going to fly anymore because the evidence that it was an utter. Catastrophe of unparalleled proportions became so clear that even French intellectuals had to admit that something was was wrong and what, what a rose instead was this, this post modern view and, and it's complicated, the post modernists, basically stumbled onto a problem that's actually be devilled a lot of different disciplines. And the problem is, is that the world is unbelievably complex, and it's very difficult to perceive it. This is why it's been difficult to build artificial intelligence systems that can perceive the world because it turns out that just looking at the world is incalculable difficult, because there are so many ways of looking at the world. There are an immense number of ways that you can look at anything. So even even small sets of objects complicated ways you can't possibly imagine. And so the post modernists figured this out in, in literary theory, essentially, they thought, well, we have these books, we regard them as canonical. How is it that we should interpret them? And the answer was well, there's an indefinite. A number of interpretations, which there, which is actually true, there isn't like trying to interpret something like the corpus of books that make up the bible. For example, it's like there's no end to the number of interpretive frameworks that you can use, and so, so that was mystery number one. Mystery number two was well if there's an indefinite number of ways of interpreting something, how do you know which ways are to take precedence? Well, that was a big problem because if you're teaching for example, of course, in literary theory, you have an interpretation of book you wanna make the assumption that there's something particularly valuable about your interpretation or why bother teaching it. But if there's an indefinite number of interpretations, and you can't rank order them, then how can you justify your particular approach? No one knew well, in some sense. The jig was up. And that's what happened with postmodern theory. It was well, we can't figure out why what we're teaching is the proper thing to teach we can't justify intellectually, the consequence of that was a questioning of the idea of a canonical interpretation at all. And so there's a real ethical and moral relativism that comes in there, but that was the that was the underlying intellectual rationale for that. What happened? And this is where things get strange is that the problem with the appoint like that is that it doesn't leave you with any way to orient yourself in the world, right? Because if no interpretation is better than the other interpretation. Then why do anything? Why do one thing instead of another, which, of course, you have to make decisions to one thing instead of another, you'll never do anything and you have to do things. And so there's a real nihilistic element to Postmodernism that's built into it, and the way that that was resolved as far as I. Can tell was really blindly in some sense by an alliance between the Neo Marxist types that were still around in looking for a new doctrine. And the postmodern types is like even though the post modernists, criticized the idea of overarching narratives and Marxism is certainly an overarching narrative that didn't stop them from allying with this leftover Marxism and reconfiguring it in some sense. So instead of the old Marxist narrative about the Berge wa Z, upper class, the ownership class, say and the proletariat who were being oppressed by them. We go out identity politics out of it. And, and what we got is the same old victimize or victim. Narrative in new form and instead of being fundamentally economic, it became racial, or ethnic, or gender based or sex based, or you name it age based or attractiveness based, it didn't really matter. And so they could the Marxist types could keep on playing the same old game under under in new clothing. Let's say and, and that became. That movement became extraordinarily popular I at Yale. So it was actually Yale's fault, just so you'll know. And then across the universities in well over a proximate thirty year period. Now, I'll close with this. You see, I think the post modernists are seriously wrong, and I actually think we know why they're wrong because although there is a very large number of ways of looking at the world. Perhaps it near infinite number of ways of looking at the world. There isn't a near infinite number of ways of acting in the world in a manner that actually is successful. So, so there are constraints on how you can you can interact with the world in a successful manner. Let's assume that you don't want undue pain anxiety. We could just start with that. And I think that's a reasonable proposition. You can tolerate some pain in exile. If it's in the service of something, greater obviously, but I just mean pointless paintings -iety, we don't want any more of that than is necessary and that means that you have to take care of yourself to some degree. But the manner in which you take care of yourself is severely constrained. Ain't mrS partly what why you have to be intelligent careful and plot your way through life properly, you have to take care of yourself today, but you have to take care of yourself today in a way that doesn't interfere with you taking care of yourself tomorrow and next week next month and next year and five years from now in ten years from now. So you can't do just what you want to in the next hour. Because if it's impulsive pleasure seeking, let's say something like that excess alcohol use excess drug use or careless sexual behavior or betrayal of people to gain new some gain you something in the moment, you're gonna pay for that. You're gonna pay for it tomorrow. You're going to pay for it next week next month the next year so because you're going to exist in the future because you have to live with yourself. There's only a certain number of ways that you can act that are going to work, but it's more than that. It's not just that you're responsible to your future self or the set of all your future selves. You also have to act in a way that works for your family, because otherwise your family is going to disintegrate and breakdown in 'cause you and all sorts of misery and grief and, and not just your family now but also your family into the future, and then not just your family either, but also your community. And so you have to set your aspirations so that they serve you in the broadest sense, over a long period of time, and they also serve your family, and they also serve your community, and that's a very tight set of constraints. And I think that the best solution to that set of constraints from a philosophical perspective, or maybe even theological perspective is to view the world as a place note of groups, but of individuals of sovereign individuals who are responsible for their destinies responsible for their families, and for their communities. And that's essentially, the those of the of the modern west because the thing that's so remarkable about the west, I would say is that we did a remarkable. We did a wonderful job of articulating out the. Idea of individual sovereignty. And we made that the cornerstone of our political and economic systems, and the thing about that is it works and the evidence that it works as well. It's right here in this room. Everything in this room is working, right? And around the world, increasingly people are becoming economically better off at a rate. That's absolutely staggering and a huge portion of that is because we've articulated out the boss of the responsible sovereign individual. Now it's not the same as the individual with rights. It's like it's not like right to relevant. But rights are really there to, to facilitate your adoption of individual responsibility. One of the things I would like to say all of you, and it's one of the things I really wanted to talk about coming here today, and I was thinking about it is that you don't wanna play identity politics and that can happen because it can be played on the right and the left. Right. And that's a collectivist idea. You don't wanna do that. What you could bring to the table. It hasn't been brought to the table for years is an emphasis on individual responsibility. And the right way to do that, as far as I'm concerned, is to start with yourself develop vision for your life. He started thinking about if you could be who you could be, what would that look like that's the beginning of mature philosophy of being. If you could be the person that you would admire who would that person be, how would you configure yourself? How would you configure your career your education, your family, your, your use of time outside of work? If you wanted to be the noblest person that you could be adopting, the maximum amount of responsibility. How would that look then you need to strategy to put that into place? And that's the way you change things property, and also the way you do the least amount of harm while you're changing them. And so it should be an individual's an individual focused set of ideas. And that way, you can sidestep the identity politics traps, and that would be a very good thing. And I think modern conservatism. Really all that distinguishable from classical liberalism, as it turns out, is to put tremendous stress on the responsibility of the individual and one of the things that's wonderful about that. As far as I'm concerned, and I made reference to this, a few minutes ago is that you need a meaning to offset the tragedy of life. Otherwise you just suffer stupidly. And you tend to make people around you suffer the same way. It's not good the modern left does. Well, and the way that you find that meeting is by opting as much responsibility as you can. And what's also so fascinating about that, is, you know, you you're, you're characterized by an indefinite potential, and it isn't easy to understand exactly what that is that potential. But you know it's what people call you on. When they say, you know, you're not living up to your potential, whatever that is that potential will be called forth from you, as a consequence of adoption of responsibility. Because it won't manifest itself unless you take on a load, you're not going to. In all the ways you could develop unless you set yourself a serious challenge, because it takes the challenge to pull that out of you, and also to motivate, you to rid yourself, vol-, the weaknesses and, and personality flaws that you've accumulated across the years to let those disappear and burn off you. You need to load yourself up before before the demands of life will be such that you will discipline yourself property, and noble goal is a very good way of, of beginning that what do you think, is, this is a debate that you see a lot. What is the motivation than of the post modernists are, are some of the individuals, afraid or hesitant to take responsibility, their very own life, and they want they want to play the victim. They find admiration in that victimhood or they meaning in the victim. I think I think a lot of them. I think this is particularly true for a lot of the young people in universities is, you know, I think the universities are in some sense, especially the, the radical end of the humanities, and the social sciences. And so I really put my finger on disciplines like women's studies and ethnic studies. All the cultural studies programs. Anthropology sociology social work. Education is an absolute letty catastrophe law is probably the worst while there was an article in the chronicle of higher education, just three weeks ago. Saying exactly that, you know. Laws is degenerating at a very rapid rate. But these these radical disciplines see what I see them doing is the same thing that cults do. And what cults do is pray on people who are dispossessed in various ways. And I think that if you have had bad relationships, perhaps particularly with men in your life. You've never had a stable relationship with someone who is masculine, and you're confused about exactly how the world works in relationship to how men and women should behave that you're a great target for exploitation by radical professors. And so a lot of the people who are in that position are people who've been badly hurt in one way or another. And you know, when they're trying to contend with the fact of their hurt and they often doing that by identifying the perpetrators, you know, the problem is, is that they've often had something terrible, perpetrated upon them. But that doesn't mean the fact that you've suffered at the hands of man, let's say or woman for that matter. Doesn't mean that all manner somehow suspect as a consequence and that's or that the proper way of dealing without is to transform the sociological structure of the world. But many, many young people are taught exactly that by by the idiot professors, and so. So that's part of it. That's part of the motivation. Mean there's also there's also. There's this weird Imelda of compassion for the dispossessed and hatred for the successful as well. That's a constant characteristic of the left or welling. It's what George Orwell observed when he was a former socialist, he said, socialism is much has become much more about hating, the rich than helping the poor. Yeah. Well, the problem is, and this is something I just I actually I've been working on the preface to the fiftieth anniversary version of the Gulag, Archipelago, abridged version. And so that'll come out in about a year. And so that's been a great thing to work on. And I was trying to distill soldier knits observations about why. The Russian revolution went so catastrophically wrong because as I said, there's reasons to be concerned about the dispossessed, right? And that's the proper. That's the proper area of concern of the of the let's call them the moderate left. It's something perhaps, the Democratic Party has been reasonably good at over the decades is worse. We're. Serving as a political forum for for the working class, and they need, they need a political voice. Obviously, the problem is, and this started to happen very early on, after the Soviet revolution with its demands for equality vote come is that first of all, who's an oppressor, and who's oppressed is not a very easy thing to figure out and the problem really is, is that each of us is an amalgam of presser, no press because you think about it this way is all of you have I hate to use this terminology. But I'll use it for for the purposes of illustration. All of you have unearned privilege. What's the privilege, it's like? Well, you didn't build this infrastructure, you didn't build the highway system. It didn't build this amazing technological society that you live in that granted you. A certain unparalleled. Standard of living, you know, you're deserving, let's say beneficiaries of what your ancestors, bestowed upon you and so, and you could call that privilege. If you wanted to know the problem without is this that you can divide people up in a very large number of ways. And so what do you have for privilege? Well, maybe you have gender privilege and maybe you have a tract of this privilege and maybe have intelligence privilege. Maybe you have being born in the United States privilege, you have been. And so if you buy the idea that all that is being purchased at someone else's expense that makes, you know, presser, now this is what happened in the Soviet Union. It's really what happened is the initial doctrine was, let's raise up the dispossessed, but the problem is, is that you can categorize people, so many different ways, in groups that you can always find a reason why someone's not a victim why they're victimize her, and you just can't believe and this is why you need to read the Gulag Archipelago. You just cannot believe how many groups of people world Blida rated in the nature of in the, in the service of in the name of equality, the communist wiped out all the socialists. So that's very interesting. They wiped out all the religious believers. They wiped out all the students, they wiped out anybody who had a middle class background. And that didn't just mean middle class people at their families, including their children in their extended relatives. It's like if you were even peripherally associated with someone who could be regarded as privilege. By any measure whatsoever. Then the probability that you were going to get rounded up and killed, or imprisoned or brutalized in some manner was well it was almost one hundred percent. And so the problem is, is that it's not very easy to distinguish those who have compassion for the dispossessed from those who are using compassion for the dispossessed as an excuse to take revenge against anybody. They think has any more than them. And because unless you're a Saint, and you're probably not the proclivity for hatred can be a more powerful motivator than the proclivity for love given that you're not very developed, and it was the proclivity for hatred that seemed to rise to the top very rapidly in these revolutionary societies. And the consequence of that was absolutely to call it dreadful is barely scraped the surface, and so hypothetically, there's motivation with regards to compassion for the dispossessed but in, in real life, even if even if these movements are often. Started to to give the devil is do by people who are genuine, compassionate, that doesn't mean they won't be taken over by people who have hatred as their fundamental motivation. Very, very rapidly. And that certainly happened in, I can't think of a circumstance where there was a radical leftist revolution in the last hundred years where that didn't invariably happen. That's what happened. And so it's not good at that happens. We don't want that to happen. And the proper response to that, as far as I'm concerned, is to, to develop a view of the world, that's focused on the individual conceptually to think of the individuals, the fundamental category, and then to act out pragmatically, and what that essentially means is get your act together, you've got things to do in the world. The absence of your full being in the world leaves a hole that, that is filled by terrible things at minimum, so at minimum you have an ethical responsibility to ensure that the world doesn't devolve into something approximating hell and at maximum. You have the responsibility. Again. The end is a heavy ethical responsibility to do everything. That's in your power to make things as good as you can possibly make them in this sophisticated manner that takes you and your family and your community into account, and it's all on you. Right. And that's meaning you know, people say, well, I'd like to have a meaningful life. It's like, well fair enough. But the, the price that you pay for the meaning that transcends tragedy is the adoption of responsibility for the catastrophe of existence. But that in nobles you, right? It makes you into someone strong and someone competent, and someone who who's worthwhile, and who lives in the manner that justifies their own suffering. And that's what there's nothing better than you can possibly do that. And this is this is a movement that could. So. I guess, among the professors, you've dealt with. Would you say that they're coming from a position of virtue and goodness or from the triad of evil that you talk about, well, under destruction? I don't envy. I don't really think about it that way necessarily, you know, it's like I, I do think about it more in the manner that I just laid out. It's like I think that the collectivist viewpoint is very dangerous. And I just described why I don't I think you do not subsume the digital to the group, the other thing that should that is happening on the left that shouldn't happen. And it does happen on the right to by the way, is that individuals are accused of the crimes of their group, which is sort of the essence of bigotry, I would say, and, again, this is something that happened in these in these totalitarian radical left societies, where if you were the member of group and the group was accused of some sort of crime. Whatever the crime happened to be the fact that you were an a member of that group meant you were also guilty of that crime. I think that's an absolutely tear. Way of looking at things I would say it's better to stay disentangled from the collectivist narrative entirely. And just because one of the things that I've come to realize, here is that if you want things to work out properly, the best way to make them work out, is to tell a better story is not necessarily to fight against the people that you think, don't hold your viewpoint because the fighting actually produces negative consequences and I'm not saying you should be a pushover, because he bloody well shouldn't be pushed pushover. That's, that's pathetic. He should be able to stand up for yourself. But I mean, part of the reason that all of you were here is because you're looking for something, you know, and hopefully you're not looking for an enemy, although an enemy can make your life like it can give a facade of meaning to your life. Hopefully, the reason that you're here is because you've decided that you're going to take your proper place in the world and that you're going to move forward with with dignity, and with strength and with responsibility and all of that. And so that's a great motivation. And I would say you can in some sense, forget about the collectivist narrative, if that's what you're going to do, because the act of putting yourself together, we'll be so powerful both for you personally, and for the people around you but also by example, that you'll just blow the other narrative completely out of the water and it's, it's to tell the better the person who tells the best story wins to simplest that. And the idea of the transcended, individual that is the best story. There's nothing that can compare to that. And everyone wants that because you mean even if you're cynical and bitter and maybe and maybe embittered toward. The world. You know, there's still a part of you that would like things to work. Well, and you can call to that part and people say, look, you know, no matter how much your suffering no matter how bad things have been for you things can improve. And you can, and you can become the sort of person that you admire. And, and that's that's the best thing you can do in an everyone is desperate to hear that. And best of all, it's true. Well, I seen this happen firsthand on campus seen this, these ideas collide. So we were at UCLA and we had one of our many campus events. We did a speaking tour at UC Berkeley, Stanford and UCLA and live the tell about it, and we need, of course, armed guards at every campus and so canvas Owens, and I were at UCLA, and there was this black lives matter, protester that came up and started to try to shout down our speech and can't essentially said, I believe, in, you believe that you can be better today tomorrow than you were today. I believe in self empowerment zone and so forth. And the protesters screaming and said, stop. It. That's racist. That's bigoted, homophobic. And we both said, we believe in, you, we believe this and she was really upset. And we said fine. We don't believe in you. She said, they knew what it was, like, almost it's almost as if as soon as they, they're rejecting responsibility in some ways, they're going, everybody's got the reasons to reject responsibility off. Well, that's it. You know. I mean so it's not easy. If you're looking for host of reasons why people might view the world from collectivist perspective, and attributed blame. Elsewhere is because well that is a dispersal of responsibility. You know, and we should also point out quite clearly that the idea that even even the societies in the world that are thriving, and I would say, those are fundamentally western societies, although that's spreading very rapidly all around the world, right? Because things are getting better, on the economic front at a rate. That's absolutely beyond beyond comprehension. You know, I don't know if you know this or not. But this is worth knowing it's also worth it's also worth thinking about if you don't know what that's also. We're thinking about because it's so important that you should know it. And if you don't, there's a reason for it. You know that the rate of absolute poverty in the world fell by half from the year two thousand two the year two thousand and twelve. Right. So, so the rate of absolute poverty was defined as, as living on approximately something approximating, a dollar a day in today's money. Now the first thing you want to understand, is that, that was the situation for the average person in the western world in eighteen ninety five. Okay. So it's only being one hundred thirty years or so that we've seen this unbelievable acceleration living standards. And of course in the west. We got rich I and before everyone else but it's not being that long. It was wasn't even one hundred years ago that were chronic famines in places like Sweden, Italy, you think, well, how can that be? It's like, well, that's the way of the world. That's how it was. But, but, but the economic miracle has been spreading everywhere, right? There's no one starving in China. There's no-one starving in India and Southeast Asia's, increasingly rich, the fastest growing economies in the world, right now are in sub Saharan Africa. And child mortality rates are plummeting and people are getting. Access to fresh water in an unparalleled rate and we're spreading phones all around the world about three hundred thousand people a week are being hooked to the power grid. Like things are happening that are good so fast. You cannot believe it. And if you don't know that one of the things you should ask is, well, why don't you know that because that's the biggest news that the risks and I think there's this chronic pessimism, that's invaded our society. Maybe it's a consequence of fifty years of the Cold War, something like that. And we just can't believe that maybe we're not going to light everything on fire and die in an apocalypse. But, you know, we improve the conditions of living all around the world. So, well so, so the way that you do that is by okay. Sorry. Charlie? I lost my track there. You'd asked me a specific question responsibility as tough as we talked about. Yes. Yes. Well, I Gotcha. Okay. Oh, thank you. Thank you. Well, so. So all of these things are happening. Well, with the issue with regards to responsibility is that it is difficult and, and everyone has the same issue. We all have our reasons not to bear responsibility. And it's very useful and and, and easy to find other people to blame in the end, it's not your problem. You know, do you really want it to be your problem? You have take stock of all your weaknesses that way. And so you say, well, people on the left are unwilling to take responsibility. It's like no, no people are unwilling to take responsibility. And maybe you see exaggerations of that in pathalogical collective narrative. That's generated on the left. But again it's better to direct that towards yourself. It's like it's more you're likely to do less harm that way, you can sit down. And think about all the ways that you're unwilling to take responsibility. And why, why wouldn't you be well, it's hard. It's easier. Just it's easier to roll downhill than it is to walk uphill, obviously. And so it's hard. To take responsibility. And, and, you know, if you also if you've also had hurtful relationships with people in your life, you know, it's not necessarily that easy to distinguish competence, from power and tyranny. And one of the things that's also happening. And I would say this is very characteristic of the hurt radical left is that people who've been hurt our frayed of any display of competence, because they can't distinguish it from power and tyranny. And so they're also unwilling in some sense to manifest that individual competence in their life because they think of that, as a manifestation of the tyranny that they're accusing the entire system as being characterized by, you know, the idea that I hate this idea. It's terrible idea. The idea that the west is a patriarchal tyranny, which well, it's absurd. It's absolutely absurd. It's like well at tyranny company of your thought done schools, by the way, there's a patriarchy and it's all. Well, let's, let's, let's, let's look at this clearly I mean, every society tilts towards tyranny and corruption. Right. I mean because all hierarchies degenerate, and the way they degenerate is by having people by by becoming twisted, so that power becomes an appropriate way of climbing up the hierarchy it's like the definition of a tyranny and hierarchies tilt towards tyranny. But one of the things that you're responsible for as individuals to make sure that your hierarchies don't tilt towards tyranny. And so the leftist complaint that hierarchies tilt towards tyranny is actually accurate. But the leftist radical leftists claimed that are hierarchies are tyrannies and then all action that fosters those hierarchies is power and tyranny is just preposterous. It's part of the problem of undifferentiated thinking you can see this in discussions of the gender pay gap. For example. I mean women are paid slightly less than men on average but there's. Very many reasons for that. The biggest reason likely is that women take an economic hit when they become mothers. So it's actually not a gender pay gap. It's a mother pay gap. And that's a good way of starting to formalize the issue and make it more precise. But there's all sorts of other reasons as well. Then work longer hours, men are more likely to work outside men. Take more dangerous jobs. If you work fourteen percent, more hours. This is a good hint. By the way, if you actually want to make some money in your life. If you work fourteen percent longer hours, you make forty percent more money. It's non linear return and men are more likely to work longer hours than women. Now, the question is why, but well there's all sorts of reasons. Now, part of the reason that there's a gender pay gap, and perhaps part of the reason that there's a mother, pay gap is because of arbitrary prejudice because the system isn't perfect, but the question is what proportion of the pay gap is due to arbitrary prejudice and answer that is far smaller proportion, then the total pay gap? And then to attribute all of that to the tyranny and prejudice of the patriarchy is the sign of the fuzzy est possible thinking, and it's it's the thing about that sort of. The thing about that sort of thinking is that it's not even helpful to the people that you're hypothetically, trying to help because you don't solve a problem by conceptualizing it, stupidly. And so if you can't do it, if your diagnosis is correct, like it could easily be. And this is something for all of you to sort out because this is going to be a problem for all of you, is that it isn't it isn't obvious. What we should do about the fact that motherhood produces a vicious economic hit for women. You can say, well that's a problem. Now, maybe we don't know how to solve it. Maybe the only way to solve it is the way we have been solving, which is to make it a problem that's essentially sold by the family. Maybe that's the best solution there is. But that doesn't mean it isn't a problem, but we're certainly not going to solve it at all unless we specify the damn problem and to conflict, the problem of the economic hit that women take for becoming mothers with the gender. Pay gap is just going to get a snow. Where we're just get tangled up. Stupid arguments about the patriots. And I have to say. I was made aware of you probably eight or nine months ago. But where I really leaned in is when you just obliterated. Kathy new is under named Cathy Newman from the UK. Oh. What was so amazing about it is it seemed like you were being so kind and you're giving her as much opportunity as possible. And you said, essentially, what you said there is a multi varied analysis based on the gender wage pay gap. And she said that must make you anti women. It was astonishing that she couldn't reconcile, what you were saying that you're actually trying to find some commonality upon that this might be a problem, there might be some ways to potentially have a discussion around it. She was immediately trying to marginalize your viewpoint of there's no way that we could possibly have any sort of agreement. Why can't you admit this sewn and so forth? So I can. Well, she was skeptical of me as a person evident like this is a bad person with bad intentions, everything I possibly can to try to expose that. Yeah. Well, I would also say I wouldn't say that I played a rated her, I would say that she, no, no it's not true because see because obliteration requires. Force and what I well it does it does. Well, and I'm making a very, very careful point here, and it's wasn't you wanted to attend to very, very carefully because you're all interested in whatever you're interested in as a consequence of being here political political action to some degree. I would presume, but perhaps also psychological development is like what I did in that interview and what I'd be able to do a number of times with certain amount of success is applied. The doctrine of minimal necessary force, and I'll tell you this is a very important thing to master. It's very sophisticated. So there's a New Testament idea that you should turn the other cheek. That's very tough one to contend with, because it's not easy to separate out that from, from the appearance of weakness. Let's say because you want to be able to stand up and defend yourself. Obviously, there's no credibility unless you're capable of doing that. You have no credibility unless you're capable of doing that. In the in the in the interview. That you're referring to I attempted to use minimal necessary force, and all I was doing was deflecting accusations, that, as far as I was concerned had nothing to do with me, and the reason that, that was successful was was exactly because because there was no obliteration that was just stepping back. Well, that's not accurate the way that you're formulating that. And what happened was that she had show her hand, and it was, it was her showing her hand that produced the consequences that were associated with that video, which I think, is being viewed the video itself about eleven million times in the various clips and cuts is probably fifty million by now but she because I didn't use force or any more than was necessary, then she had to keep stepping forward with her accusations, and the all g and she just laid it out completely so that everyone could see it. And so that's another thing you really want to think about, like you don't wanna be thinking about this as polarized politic. Battle because you're, then you're in the damn polarized political battle, and it's actually the polarized political battle. That's the problem. Now. No, it's not like as I said already. It sounds like you wanna be pushover, but you step away from that. And you well, you work on yourself so that you're increasingly powerful person. But one of the one of the ways that you do that is that you learn to use minimum necessary force. It's like you don't defend yourself anymore than you have to like be careful. Don't push any harder than you need to. Because all you do is you generate a counterforce by by pushing harder than you need to, and then and then you're in conflict. And you think while I like a little conflict? It's like look fair enough. A little conflict, man. No problem. It keeps your life interesting, and maybe that's on the problem solving edge, but a little conflict and become a lot of conflict, very, very rapidly. And if you have any sense at all, that's not what you want, you know, especially if you have other things that are better to do, and you should have other things that are better to do. And so, you know to, to deal with these sorts of things even when you're provoked with a light hand there is no more effective strategy than that. And it's a real Mark of sophistication and your ability to keep your temper in check. It's really something to him it. And that's that's true. Even when you're dealing with yourself. You don't punish yourself any more than necessary. When you're negotiating with someone that you love the partner for example, a husband, or a wife, at least in principle, you defend yourself with minimum necessary force. And, and so it's not, you know, there's been a lot of videos that have been cut out of my talks Jordan. Peterson obliterates ex journalists are wide your and I'm not putting those clips up and they're click bait to large degree. But, but, but when I've been successful in responding to attacks, it's only because I've responded to the minimally. So, for example, there's been a number of times when I've gone to universities and had pretty nasty demonstration. So was wanted McMaster University that got quite out of hand and a worse, one at Queen's University, where people were pounding on the windows, while we were all. Sitting in the hole, but it was the same thing there is like control of temper detachment understanding that the full event has yet to play itself out the ability to step back and the requirement to use minimum necessary force. And when I've been able to manage that, then it's worked, and if I get if my temper gets riled up, and I have a temper, and if it gets riled up. And I start to lash out more than necessary. Then that, that goes badly right away, and I can see that in the comments and I can see that the means that are made of me turn a little bit more mean instead of funny. And so this is really an important thing to know it's like keep your temperature control. Don't burst out into self righteous anger, in particular against those that you might regard us your political enemies. It is not going to help you. It's not gonna help the cause it's not gonna help anything. And so, that's, that's terrific. See you can you can you can accomplish what you want to accomplish. If you're if you're being wise about it by being eminently reasonable. That's the thing is you can have reason on your side. And I mean reason in the best possible sense is like you don't have to be temperamental and impulsive in this sort of situation, you can try to put yourself together, which I would highly recommend. And then you can you can you can you can lay yourself open to the attacks now that means you shouldn't be able to defend yourself. You should have the articulated structures at hand. You should orient yourself properly politically, and philosophically, even physically, for that matter, so that you're forced to contend with. But once you have that down, then you play with the lightest possible hand, and now way, also you have the highest probability of, of, let's say of changing the minds of people who are possessed by an ideology so that they can rejoin the productive. Political dialogue, and that's what you want. You don't want to defeat them. First of all, good luck with that. It's like well you're gonna live with them. You can't feed people that you live with, because they're they are the next day, and, and if you defeat them. Well, then they're defeated. Maybe that's not for the best and second. It's not like they're happy about the fact that they're defeated. It's not like they're not going to be waiting around to find out when they can defeat you next. It's like if you're married to someone take well, I won that argument. It's like no, you didn't know you did because they're that person is waking up next to you the next day. And so if you won you know, and they've, they're defeated and humiliated, because of it, then the probability that they're going to react property. Do you, if they have any sense at all is very low? And so, so what you want is, you want, you want to negotiate your way to a sustainable peace, and that's what you wanna do in the political realm, too, because well in this country, you know, there's a certain amount of polarization. I don't think it's anywhere near as bad as the media's making it out to be as they go through their death spirals and generate click bait like mad, because, you know, in the US you guys have been voting. Fifty percent Republican and fifty percent democrat from what about twenty years right down the middle? It hasn't changed that much. But these people these people who are on the opposite side of the political spectrum from you. They're, they're the people who live across the street. They're the people who live down the street their family members for that matter. And you're going to have to live with them. It's like you don't want to defeat them. You want to bring them back into the reasonable political dialogue and you do that by having a certain amount, first of all by getting your act together so that you're a credible and admirable person. But then, by having some forbearance and and negotiating towards peace. It's think about what you want a victory. He wanted to victory that where you're surrounded by the corpses of your defeated enemies. Or do you want to victory that constitutes piece? Well, that's what you want. And in this country, I mean, you'd be able to maintain that for a very long period of time excluding the civil war. Let's say there's been other periods of polarization, like in the early nineteen seventies, you don't want this to be a victory, you want this, not, not in that sense you want to decrease the polarization to bring everyone back under the umbrella of intelligent conversation, and you want to also know that just as you perhaps, are temperamentally, predisposed being more conservative, to standing for patriotism, standing for, for, for the for the what would you say the well, let's say, patriotism, we'll leave it at that, and for the utility of hierarchies that there are people who need to speak for the dispossessed and you have to engage in a dialogue with them for your own good as well as theirs, because healthy hierarchies do take care of the people who are just possessed by the hierarchies. And that's one of the things that makes them stable, it's not an easy thing to figure out how to do. Right. I mean you don't do it self-evidently by things. Redistribution of income, but it's still a universal the problem of the dispossessed is a universal problem and it has to be addressed. And that's why you need the political dialogue. So no victory. Peace is the goal not victory. So it's great. It's twenty nine hundred and everyone needs a great pair of wireless ear buds. But before you go dropping hundreds of dollars on a pair who need to check out the wireless ear buds from Ray, these things are so easy to wear. I wear them to the airport. I wear them when I'm working out, they are terrific. You absolutely need to get them Rakhine earbud started about half the price of any other premium wireless ear buds on the market, and they just they sound just as amazing celebrities like snoop Dogg. Cardi B accord, Melissa Ethridge, brandy, JR Smith are already obsessed Ray Kanzi fifty wireless ear buds. Have totally changed the game for me. They're so comfortable. I'm telling you, they're so comfortable and they're easy to take anywhere. 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Feedbacks been great so far. There's another thing I wanted to say because this is particularly a meeting of women because I think this is one thing that you could all do one of the things I've noticed. And I think this is true, right from the beginning of let's say women became. Particularly emancipated as a consequence of the development of the birth control pill, which was much more technological revolution. Then the political revolution Kate because, now you have control if your reproductive function, least in, at least in, in large part, and so and there's other technological advances that have also made that possible say, so now the question is well with that additional freedom of choice. Let's say what is it that you want? And this is something that a women's movement like this could figure out because I don't think we really no, no. It's my observation like I've worked with women my whole life, partly because I've always worked in female dominated industries, so you know, I'm young enough. Let's say so that women were fully integrated into the workforce in every domain, I was in right from the time I started working. And so, I've watched women in academia, for example, but in all sorts of other professions as well negotiate their careers over their entire lifespan. And this is what I've observe. Served, and I'm not saying it's right. This is what I've observed is that it looks to me, like in our society, young women are taught to overvalue career and what I mean by that is that they're not taught when they're eighteen or nineteen or sixteen to twenty something like that, that, what's actually going to play a crucial role in their lives. And so we have this idea that, while you're going to have a meaningful career. It's like, well, first of all most people don't have careers. They have jobs, and that's not the same that isn't, I'm not saying that a job isn't necessary and useful. But it's not a career it's not necessarily intrinsically meaningful, right? It's something you do. Because it needs to be done and, and it's difficult, and that's why you get paid for doing it. And so that's a job not career. And even if you have a career. Careers are strange things because they're not as intrinsically meaningful as the purveyors of careers. Like to tell you like I worked with a lot of women in law, firms, for example, in these were like impressive. These were impressive people man, the ace their highschool. They nailed their university. They, they were, you know, top fifth percentile and there L sats they nailed law school. They went into article link they got their, their internship. That's not what it's called in law. But the word escapes me for Arctic ING, and then they became partners by the time they were thirty this. They were on this rocket, like trajectory almost all of them quit in they're in their thirties. It's a it's an happens in law school in law firms all the time. And you might say, well, that's a consequence of the oppressive patriarchy. It's like no, it's not that's not true. What it's a consequence of is the women hit their late twenties and early thirties, they make partner, which is sort of the pinnacle. They're hyper conscientious women. So they're aiming for the top, they hit it may think now I'm surrounded by all these people, many of the men all those guys do is work like eighty hours a week. They just work nonstop. They make a lot of money, but, you know, money loses its incremental utility after you have enough money really to keep the Bill collectors at bay, the psychological literature on quite clear. The women wake up when they're in their late twenties. And they think it isn't obvious to me. Why anyone would work eighty hours a week when they have other things to do like have a relationship like have a family, and let's be perfectly clear about this. Most men are like that, too. Right. Because people work on average about thirty five. Forty hours a week. They're concerned about having a family and having a relationship and having a life outside of work. If you're going to have a high end career that's your life, make no mistake about it. It's like you don't get to the top one percent of your occupation unless all you do is work. And I don't mean work a little bit. I mean work sixteen hours a day, flat out, like some of my clients got new microwaves, because it took a few seconds, shorter to heat their coffee in the morning. And so I'm dead serious about that, man. They were time to the second those people. And you think well, do you want to live like that? It's like, well, maybe the answer is, yes. But certainly, the answer could be no because. Well, why would you do that? What, what's the purpose of doing that, when you could also have an intimate relationship that you spent some time on family? And so one of the things that you people should figure out could figure out, well, if you can have what you wanted as emancipated women. No capable of taking whatever place you want in society. What do you want? And how do you find out? How do you find out what women want? I would say that you could consider partnering with some reasonable social scientists and start doing some surveys and survey women of all different ages from nineteen up to up to well, up to seventy and find out what women want, you know, I think you'd see radically shift from nineteen thirty five by the way, and I'd like to see that documented because my. Experiences being as women mature from nineteen to thirty the, the value that they lay on. Permanent relationships and family increases now and the value that they lay on career decreases now maybe that's wrong because it hasn't been documented particularly well, but I don't think it's wrong. It'd be worth finding out because then you could also find out if you didn't find out what women actually want, and I don't think we've done a good job of figuring that out at all. Then you could also figure out how to facilitate that and that would be a wonderful thing because we actually need to know that. And I think the to some degree, the academic disciplines in the universities are so corrupted by identity politics that they can't answer these ask or answer these questions without falling into an ideological trap. But it just be good to find out like, we know, for example, that men and women do differ temperamentally, and they do differ in their interests. You know, so women are more likely to be interested in people and men are more likely to be interested in things, broadly, speaking, and there's exceptions and that does modulate career choice. So we know, for example, as well that as societies become more. Egalitarian. This is an important point to, to know as societies, become more egalitarian, the proportion of women who choose stem disciplines science technology, engineering, mathematics, decreases doesn't increase decreases, now, I don't know what to make of that. And I don't know whether that's a bad thing or a good thing. But I do know that men and women do differ in their proclivities and their interests on average, and it would be interesting to see if we took that fully into account, which would seem to be something you do with a true. Feminism is like, well, we're going to deal with women as they are perhaps as they could be. But at least we could start with as they are. So what do they want? How can we facilitate their ability to acquire that? And how can we set up our society so that they benefit and everyone else benefits because of it, and I think I think there's a whole there that needs to be filled, and that would be nice to see a political organization that grounded itself carefully in. Actual gathering of data and you could do this what women want. How is that going to work properly for society? And is there any way that, that could be properly facilitated the a lovely thing for everyone to find out and for it to be de-politicized to the degree? That, that was possible. So one of the questions we're getting a lot of Twitter. It's interesting is this war on men and the idea of masculinity of all questions at a women's summit. So I'll read it on as conservative women. How can we help end society's negative stereotype of masculinity? I think you do that. I really think the fundamental way you do that is by constraining it in, in your own relationship. You know, now, one of the things you'll find now I'm going to tread on thin ice here. But that's okay. One of the things you'll find is that, that attitude towards let's say, toxic masculinity is likely to manifest itself in your own relationship. You know, in your distrust of your partner, say, and I'm not saying that you should naively trust your partner. I don't think you should naively trust anyone. Right. And sometimes people confuse naievety with trust say, well, when I was a kid, I trusted everyone. It's like well that wasn't wisdom. Right. You just didn't know any better because you were kid and you say, well, then I got hurt and now I don't trust anyone. It's like well you're wiser now that you've been hurt because, you know, that, that can happen, and, you know, that that's within the realm of, of human possibility say, well, yeah, but it's damaged. My ability to trust. It's like no, it hasn't. You never had any ability to try. Just you just had naive faith in other people, and that's not the same thing. Once you've been hurt trust becomes an active courage, note, inactive naive to you say, well, I know that like me. You're full of snakes and God only knows when one's gonna pop out in bite me and the same goes for you in relationship to me, it's like, well, why should I trust you? And the answer is because your courageous because if you put forward your hand and trust someone to do the right thing you radically increase the probability that they will. Now, you don't increase it to one hundred percent and you lay yourself open for betrayal. Right. But if you know that if you're awake to that, you say, look, I'm willing to take the risk to be hurt in order to extend my hand entrust. Well, that's how you combat toxic masculinity. Right, then and there you do it in your own heart, you know, and you will call forth, the best from the person that you're with by doing that, you know, and that's partly the willingness to be vulnerable, but and I don't mean naive. Easily. Right. Because you're, you're not you're not there's no courage invulnerability unless unless, you know, the price that you might pay. And so you have to trust and you have to be honest. That's the other thing you know been that's part of trusting, you need to let your partner know who you are. And what you want that also he's you have to let yourself. No. And that's not such an easy thing to you have to have a dialogue with yourself and figure out what you want, and you have to be willing to share that with your partner, I think the way that you glue the relationships between men and women back together is by doing that locally, first of all right. You deal with your your boyfriend you deal with your husband you deal with your brothers. You glue things back together with your father, if you can do that he was tablist, positive relationship with your son, and then having learned how to do that, while you're going to spread your influence out properly into the broader community, and I'm a very big Meyer of local action. It's like because. Local action isn't local spreads out so quickly. You can't believe it. And if you do things right in little domains that you have it right in front of you. First of all, that's not easy like it's hard to have a good relationship that maintains itself property across time that will take everything you've got and if you're capable of developing the character that will allow you to do that moving that out into the broader social world will be a simple thing in comparison. So, so you start by manifesting courageous faith in your, your partner and the men that are close to you in your life. And then you and you watch and you let them know when that when that trust is being violated, obviously because you're not a push over. You say what you have to say and that way you heal those relationships and that'll do the trick. That's all you need to do. All you need to do. It's like good luck with that. It's very, very hard. But, but, but you can do it and it won't cause any harm. That's also a very good thing. So. Universities have become so radical, when you say things such as men are better at some things than women and women are better at some things, and men, those are considered horribly radical statements because of some of the insanity that has infiltrated higher education on, I think some of this categorization upon your work, and your teaching is just rooted in how they've moved the goalposts slow, it's funny. It's comical thing is, you know. The data that I've put forward with regards to the differences between men and women isn't controversial. So, you know, you say well, so this is pseudoscience that's one accusation. Well here, let me tell you about it. Okay. So just so, you know, okay, so you got to try to figure out when when scientific data is credible. Okay, so here's one because you might say, well, it also gets contaminated with politics and that does happen. Now science has mechanisms to stop that from happening across time. But one thing you can be reasonably sure of is that if scientists publish data that violates their own political leanings. That's one bit of evidence that it might be reliable because they're not going to rush out and be thrilled about publishing something that shows that their fundamental political presuppositions are in air. Okay. So let's look at the personality literature, just because this is where you see the differences between men and women. Okay. So the first thing is, is that the best way, those have been measured is by using. Scale called the big five personality inventory. There's a variety of different variant summit. But they all measure five fundamental traits extroversion positive emotion. Dimension eroticism negative emotion. Dimension, agreeable nece, which is compassionate, and politeness, conscientiousness and openness, which is a creativity dimension. Okay. Now, the first question is, how did those dimensions come to be identified because he might say, well, is there political bias there? An answer seems to be. No. And here's why. So the way no one predicted these dimensions. They emerged as a consequence of brute force statistical analysis so magin that you ask a great number of people and immense number of questions. Okay. And every sort of question you can imagine. And I mean that because you get teams of people sitting down and writing down as many questions as they can think up. And so you give those questions to as many people as possible, and then use a process. Factor analysis, which is typical process that tells you how the questions clump so, for example questions like I'm in a good mood in the morning and I'm often happy people who answer seven on a scale of one to seven for the first question. Seven on a scale one to seven for the second question p that's going to happen. This statistics can pull out those patterns, there's and there's five patterns knows the traits so that doesn't seem to be politicized, and it was eight theoretical to the degree that that was possible. Okay. So now you have the traits, and they were started to be established in the nineteen sixties. We've got pretty good measuring them I would say by nineteen ninety that started to become a pretty stable model. Well, then the next question is are there differences between men and women? That's pretty easy. You just look and but they don't even believe in men and women, though, they think men and women are, it's a social construct. Yeah. Well, that's how we, we can, we can get we can get to that. And so, and so, and so the answer is yes. The biggest differences are women are higher in negative emotion. And they're hiring agreeable nece and the difference isn't massive at the average level. So here's the difference if you took a random woman and random, man, no to the population and you had to lay a bet on who was more agreeable. So that's more compassionate, and polite. And you bet on the woman, you'd be right sixty percent of the time. So it's not fifty fifty there's a tilt towards towards women be more agreeable and you see this manifested in, in the culture. So the best personality predictor of being incarcerated is low agreeable nece, and you have a ten to one incarceration rate men to women. That's in keeping with that. So, and then women are hiring negative emotion. That seems to kick it at puberty because you don't see that with boys and girls, you see it, you see that puberty. And that's also in keeping with the psychiatric literature that indicates that worldwide women have two to three times the rate of depression, and anxiety, which goes along with that. Okay. So, so there were there are differences, then you might ask well. L are those sociocultural now the proclivity of the social scientists would be to say, yes, because they're leftists. They're all the social scientists are on the left all of them. So, so, so they're going to be biased towards the social social sociocultural interpretation. So here's how you do it. You say okay, well, let's look across countries at differences between men and women. And so if the socio cultural explanation is correct, as societies, become more egalitarian in their social policies, the differences between men and women should disappear very straightforward prediction. And so those studies have been done, and it's not some obscure damn study that's collecting dust under some tree in the middle of the field. These are these are studies that have been cited thousands of times by scientific standards that's overwhelmingly successful, if your papers cited one hundred times it's a major deal, if it cited like. Three thousand times, you hit it out of the park like that happens to you once in your career or probably never, so these are major pieces of scientific inquiry and with tens of thousands of subjects, so in what they found was, so you stack up countries by the gala -tarian nature of their social policies, and then you look at differences between men and women. And what do you find? You find that the more egalitarian the society, the bigger the differences between men and women. Well, people published out this is why the paper cited like three thousand times, it's like whoa. We didn't expect that. And the reason is it seems to be is that magic that there are two reasons why men and women might differ. So she'll cultural and biological you remove the socio cultural influences the biological differences maximize now. It isn't what anyone expected, and it isn't what the researchers wanted to find. But that's the case. Okay. So what do we do about that? Well, you could say we increase the pressure on men and women to equalize them, regardless of the biological differences. But the problem with that is well, first of all, are you sure you want to do that? Like maybe you are maybe you're going to say, hey man equality of outcome. No matter what the cost. And so we'll socialize little girls more like little boys will. Allies, little boys, more like little girls, that's a possibility. But the problem with that is that the differences are large enough and pronounced enough. So you're going to have to produce a pretty tyrannical bureaucracy to impose that degree of equalization on outcome. And I would say you want to be very careful before you do social engineering on that scale alternatively, you could say, okay, well, look there are the differences. How were we to understand them? And what are we going to do about them, because one of the things that happens because of these differences, it appears is that men and women sort themselves out into different occupations, if you let them, and you see that most particularly again, in the Scandinavian countries where there's a massive preponderance of male engineers, and remember, being an engineer is very niche category. Right. Most people aren't of the engineering type most of them aren't. But the preponderance of those who are appears to be mailed. Okay. And we're not exactly sure why that is seems to have something to do with interest in things rather than people, and the preponderance of people who go into healthcare nursing in particular, are women is that, okay? Well, this is the sort of thing that your generation is going to have to figure out. We want to Mike my proclivity of this is a personal proclivity would be to let people sort themselves out as they see fit. It. That's kind of a free market solution. It seems to me that, that's a salable message to young women. It's like, well, you're not exactly the same as men. Now the parameters of different aren't aren't fully defined the causes for that aren't fully understood. But there seems to be a fair bit of ability. It's like manifest the variability in the free market seems to be to me. That's the least injurious solution. And I think that's a salable message to young women. It's make your choices based on your proclivity. Alright assuming that you're also taking care of yourself and your families, and your community. And I think that, that's a perfectly reasonable way of going about it. Because the alternative is to engage in really large scale and intense social engineering in tempt to radically the differences. And the other thing, too, is, we don't know how useful those differences are. So I've been this is my opinion just so you know what I've been trying to puzzle out why. Why women are more prone to negative emotion than men and why that kicks in puberty? So because it's not so fun to be more prone to negative emotion. Right. You pay a big price for that. It, it, it produces increased emotional pain in exile, eighty. So it's a big price. So why do I thought why in the world would women be characterized by levels of negative motion, given produces an excessive depression and anxiety and its associated with a fair bit of suffering. And I thought, well, here's a bunch of reasons you can tell me what you think about them. Okay. Women become sexually vulnerable at puberty and sexist more dangerous for women than it is for men for obvious reasons. Right. Because men don't get pregnant, right? So, so the cost of, of casual sexual encounter or forced sexual encounters very, very high for women. And so maybe there's, there's reason there to be more apprehensive in general women are smaller than men and they're not as strong in the upper body. So there's a physical issue here as well. So that's, that's. Reason number two, but I think reason number three might be paramount. Look, we don't know how susceptible you need to be to distress to be a good mother. Right. And it looks to me like you have to be quite susceptible to distress because what should happen when your infant is upset is that, that should make you upset. That's an empathy response. Right. And so it could easily be that you have to be more sensitive to threat then might be good for you, because the reason you, there's you and the infant, that's the canonical female configuration. Let's say from from an evolutionary perspective. And so you're not afraid for you. You're afraid for you in the infant, and that puts you at a certain disadvantage in dealing say with adult men in the general world, because you're a little bit more sensitive to negative emotion might be optimal. But that's the price that you pay for being, particularly sensitive to incredibly dependent offspring, which, of course, is. Characteristic of people. Now, I don't know that that's true. But, but those are hypotheses I have about why the negative emotion differences exists, and if they do exist, like maybe it is the case that your that your infant is has a slightly higher possibility of surviving. If you're a little more sensitive to threat, it stands to reason, obviously, that can get out of hand, but those are differences that we might not want to mess with either because we don't understand their utility. And so it isn't obvious that you want to be trained out of that, because maybe that would make you harsh. And maybe that would make you too harsh to be really good at taking care of really small infants. Now, I don't know. Right. Because we've only really sorted out the fact that there are temperamental differences between men and women that are reliable. We've only really figured that out. I would say in the last maximum thirty years, but really more like fifteen. It's like that's not much time to adapt to a piece of information like that. And we've only figured out that it's not fundamentally sociocultural in its causation. In. It's been less time than that. So. But what's, what's troubling is that from even your home country there? There's a movement where parents say, I'm going to let my kid decide if they're a boy or girl, there's, there's this third option on the birth certificate. Yeah. Yeah. Luck with that. But. I've got a funny story for you about that. So I had a family member who who adopted kids, and they were, they were kind of early adopters of the gender-neutral idea. But, but in low level way they were just not going to use stereotypical approaches to their children. And that the outcome of that was absolutely comical, as far as I was concerned their girl, she was like the most feminine girl, I've ever seen her bedroom was like pink, and it was full of flowers. And it was just was just everything you'd expect from stereo, typical feminine person, and their, their, their son liked to hunt and fish, even though his father did neither of those and grew up to work on the oil rigs was real rough guy. It's like didn't make any difference at all. I suspect that the, the intrinsic gender differences, the sex differences are robust enough so that some minor. League's social engineering, first of all is unlikely to change them but might even exaggerate them. Because you know if you try to suppress something. Doesn't make it go away. What ends to do is to make it angry and get bigger? And so I, I mean, I think I think that the I think the call for gender, fluidity and the idea that there's a gender spectrum is likely to be very confusing for children and adults since at times when at a time in their life where the last thing they need is extra confusion about who they are under the guise of choice. I think that it's, it's a foolish bit of social engineering. I think the underlying theory on which it's predicated which is now law in Canada polling enough. This social construction est version of gender. I think it's the reason it's being transformed into laws because the activists lost completely in the scientific domain. They had to circumvent the whole proof issue and just introduce by fee, it I think it's a sign of the degeneration of the education system in general. So I'm appalled by it. But I also think that getting rid of gender differences, so to speak is going to be a lot harder than any social engineers can possibly imagine that the probability that it will kick back hard is really high because I think that what most people will do is, is defensively revert to a more rigid identity as an attempt to defend themselves against the confusion. That's. Most likely outcome. I see. So we'll see. Right. And hopefully this most of this nonsense will disappear us people come back to their senses. Which I hope they are. I sure hope you're right. But in the humanities, I think you first exposes eighty percent of all papers are written without peer, reviewers sides. Oh, no. I didn't expose that, then that how you help show. Yeah. I was your platform. Oh, yes. Yes. I was an avid. Tweeter of that particular statistic. You know, when I should hedge my bets to some degree, like look the first thing you have to understand, is that most enterprises produce a tremendous amount of useless, noise. Right. Right. And whether that's academia, government or private enterprise, like I mean, the first thing you want to think about is this is that you take a typical corporation in. So maybe it runs on a five percent profit margin that means it spends ninety five percent of its effort just lumbering forward. And if you know anything about big corporations, you know, perfectly well that they're capable of well, they do way, more stupid things than they do. Intelligent things right in the bigger, the corporation, the more likely that is to be the case, which is why they tend to precipitously fail. I think the typical fortune five hundred company lasts thirty years. Right. Which is part, it's also partly why capital doesn't accumulate in the. Hands of a smaller and smaller number of the same people even though there is that one percent distribution that's characteristic of pretty much all economies. So almost all large scale, human enterprises produce a tremendous amount of stupidity, and that's also true that -demia. And so the fact that eighty percent of humanity's papers receive zero, citations is mostly a consequence of the fact that most papers are hardly ever cited. Right. So it's a photos of perito distribution. So what you basically do is you take the number of papers that are published and assume that the square root of the number receives half the citations. So if there's ten thousand papers published in a disciplined than one hundred of them will receive half the citations, and that's the same law that applies to the distribution of money. It's the same law that applies to number of basketball hoops, successfully completed by pro athletes or goal scored by hockey players or size of tree. As in the Amazon or, or size of cities or massive stars. Like it's a universal principle. It's prices law. Essentially, however, the fact that eighty percent of the papers receive zero citations is, is a metric for something approximating, catastrophic failure right now, one of the things that's happened in the universities. That's facilitating this, the reason I put that preamble in is because I don't want you to think that the universities are more spectacularly unsuccessful than most things because they're not. But that doesn't mean the lack of success isn't worth assessing. So one of the things that's happened is a lot of these systems for evaluation of being gerrymandered. So zero citations means really no one, not even your friends or yourself has cited your paper. So that's not so good. What happens with a lot of these journals? Is that a very small number of people publishing them? It's the same people. They. Request that the libraries, subscribe to them, and the libraries, pay radically inflated prices to subscribe to these journals, which is why the publishers published them and the price of the subscription is subsidized by tax, money or by insane tuition fees. Either way it's equally. Reprehensible, so there's a market for useless information. That's generated by the subsidize ation of publishing journals at inflated prices. And so you get this, this, what generation of excess material that's completely useless and expensive. And that's part of what's driving. This sort of thing. That's not good. I mean, it's one of about seven fatal errors that the universities are making because I think they're making approximately seven fatal errors, so too much administrative overhead like way too much administrative overhead that's been getting out of hand over the last few decades. When when, when the size of the faculty remained essentially constant, and the number of faculty that have full-time positions has been plummeting. That's number two. The faculty are being replaced with part timers who have no job security, who get paid nothing. And I really, I don't mean literally nothing but it's so close to nothing that it might as well be nothing and who have no. Have no power over the destiny of the university's whatsoever. So that's part time, adjunct staff that are up to forty percent of professors in many institutions now, and hiring some so ministry overhead the decimation of the professorial insane. Acceleration of tuition fees, far above the cost of inflation, right way, outstripping, the value of the degrees, gerrymandering the. What would you call it, the, the standards necessary to graduate, the proliferation of the activist, disciplines the, the use of these ethics committees that have that have that have taken taken scientific research, especially on human beings and animals down at the knees, they've made it so cumbersome and slow that anyone with any sense is appalled by it. The fact that in the United States if you take out student loans, which are easy to access that you can declare bankruptcy, which is just absolutely mind boggling, to me, because it's a form of indentured servitude. It's a way that the university administrators have figured out how to pick the pockets of the future earnings of their current students. So that's, I think that's seven there's more, but failure to teach people how to read failure to teach people, how to write failure to teach people how to speak failure to teach them the proper classics, especially in the humanities because they're actually we're learning. It's just a unbridled, bloody catastrophe and the universities are going to pay for it. Beyond that I had a campus lecture. Month ago where a student came up and they said, you know, in our literature class. We are no longer. This is Stanford. We don't we don't learn Shakespeare because he was a white male. And so, I'm, I'm going to push back with one thing you said, I don't know if it's going to get better anytime soon it has gotten. I think the universities are going to lose their purchase on higher education. I sure that's what's going to happen. Well, look, look at it this way, I mean, why read Shakespeare? Well, the answer is either there's intrinsic value in Shakespeare, there, isn't if there isn't any intrinsic value than it doesn't matter if there is intrinsic value. So let's say the intrinsic value of the liberal, what's the intrinsic value of the liberal arts? It's not an obvious the answer to that question is not obvious. But here's here's my answer to that. Okay. So the liberal arts present to you, the great works of literature and philosophy of the past case. Why is that useful, while the reason it's useful because it's useful is that these are examples coded in stories and often in explicit philosophy that tell you how to live properly with a minimum of excess suffering with a minimum of, of unnecessary damage to others. They contain wisdom and wisdom is valuable because wisdom is what you need in order to know how to live property, and it's valuable. Okay. And then the liberal arts also hypothetic. Taught you to speak clearly, to write intelligibly to think properly and to familiarize yourself with those great works. What's the utility in that will be blunt about it economically? Well, that's simple. If you can communicate in those means speaking writing, and if you can think you are so powerful that nothing can stop you, you think about it. Well, what do you mean? Well, I don't care who you are. I don't care if you're a plumber, or waitress, not that there's anything wrong with being a plumber, or waitress because there isn't it's like you're going to negotiate for a race, you can negotiate for promotion, you're going to negotiate how your customers treat you, you're going to negotiate how you how you advertise yourself, for example with regards to picking up customers. That's all articulated linguistic ability the ability to express yourself. If you're good at that you win period. And so. Right. There's a reason, like the children of rich people took liberal arts degrees. Why? Because the rich knew that that was the best possible training for leadership positions. And it wasn't because it was a romp through the park for four years. And then daddy's inheritance it was because if you learn how to communicate you were unstoppable. Now, if the university stopped teaching people valuable things they abandoned the classic literature, for example, and the abandoned, the, their sacred duty to teach people, how to communicate properly all that means is that they'll devalue their brand, and they'll disappear because that's their brand. And then if they leave all that valuable material just lying around, and you can be sure that someone else will come and pick it up and make something useful out of it. And so I think that'll happen way faster than people think it's already starting to happen online. I mean, the lectures that I put online their university, lectures, and they're. Voted to what I just described to helping people put their lives together and learning to communicate. I mean, there's millions of people have watched them. It's like and that technology is just sitting there, and so the probability that we can generate systems quite rapidly that will educate an credit thousands hundreds of thousands millions of people at very, very low cost you watched that's going to happen, so fast. It'll make your head spin and the universities collapse. I always say. You can learn much more from watching, Dr Jordan Peterson in Prager university for a month then going to spend four years, trying to pursue some liberal arts degree for two hundred thousand dollars in that. More wisdom, or more instruction for life. So in the short time, we have remaining, what advice do you have for this room, this particular audience? And what would you like to say that you haven't already had a chance to say to this historic gathering of young women? Don't underestimate yourselves. Don't, don't underestimate. Let me rephrase that let me rephrase that. Don't over-estimate yourself, but don't underestimate who you could be. That's a much better way of thinking about it. You know, psychologists of the of the careless sort, I would say have been pushing the idea of self esteem for a very long time. Probably since the early sixties in it's more careless forms. You should be content with us yourself the way you are. It's like no, you shouldn't you especially not how old are you people? You're like eighteen we can be content with yourself the way you are, what, what are you going to do with the next sixty years, then, you know, seriously like you're you're near what you could be you, not even. Right. And so that's a, that's a way more optimistic message. Like it's you ain't seen nothing yet. That's the right message. And so I would say, don't overestimate yourself now but don't underestimate your future self you know, you're so you have so much influence as an individual. If you get your act together that you can't believe there isn't anything that has more influence than that, you have all the power that there is right where you are to put things right around you. And if you start now you're also young. You start now you develop a noble vision. Right. Of who you could be start to put that into practice develop some discipline, familiarize yourself with the great works of the past. Learn to read learn to write learn to speak. Learn to think man, you'll be deadly. Dr Jordan Peterson everyone knows he took two flights to get here yet come here and he's going back to tonight. I think either to Kentucky Indianapolis, Indianapolis tonight, you're onto, or so the fact you made time for this means the world to all of us you, you are. In my opinion, you have been the most important thinker in my life and the creation and advancement of turning point USA in my world philosophy. And I believe you are the most instrumental thinker that will continue to allow us to help save western civilization. And you were my hero, and I want to thank you again for making the time. Thank you. Thank you. Everyone. That was just an amazing interview. Thank you so much for listening this week. Dr Jordan Peterson I think singlehandedly has changed the international conversation around things that should not be controversial pushing back against the culturally disruptive left. He believes in standards. He believes, tradition his book, twelve rules for life, and antidote to chaos is so important. Go buy a copy has changed my life. He is my hero. He's truly amazing. I hope you enjoyed that conversation. We have more exciting shows coming to this week, please, go press. Subscribe Gogi five stars. Don't just be an idol listener. Get engaged. Leave us that comet. It helps the show so much. We are surging on the charts each week. 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21 - Michelle Castro Part 2

When I'm High

27:20 min | 2 weeks ago

21 - Michelle Castro Part 2

"Hello everyone. Thank you for checking out this podcast. If, you are turning this on and you did not go listen to part one of Michelle's interview. You should turn this episode often go listen to that one first and then turn this one back on and I'll be here when you get back. So here we go with part two of Michelle Castro's interview. So moving on to music what what is music like when you're high? Okay. You know it's funny when I smoke. Up to work out in the mornings, I'll I'll typically get up the mornings I'll how by teacher see tincture Twenty one just as a nice little encapsulation for the cannabis I'm about to like smoke. And I get into working out and my work out after my meditation will typically be consistent a dance hall, which is deep Jamaican dirty ass like I'm WanNa Bang yet. But you. But on this bump and let's do it. That's that's where we go and my workouts because it feels good with Gannett's and then there's some Denver I'll be smoking in the afternoon and I. Just Want Chill put on some native American chants Ersan, Meditation Shit, Earl tune myself a deal on a tuning forks to so that takes on a whole different level to to just depend on the blend I choose to enjoy at that moment I was a yeah on a very general sense. What is your experience of the music like when you're high opposed to win? You're sober do you see or hear the music in a different way? I think feel it more more deeply. It resonates with me. There's been times when I've been really really. In tune with the plants and got myself to a place where my brain is just. My Body's like, yes, and they'll be does particular songs. It will literally bring me to tears because I feel. So tremendously grateful that the plants and my emotions and my body and my mind, and my everything's spirit is all in this beautiful encapsulated green bubble of union. I love it. I love. As I mentioned before I think I love doing these interviews. Maybe this was before we started recording because I love getting these completely different but similar answers from people that I interview because everybody's different everybody's got different personalities. You know in ways that you would never even imagine, and so I asked the same the same questions but I get often just vastly different answers which I which I really really like. and. So here's the next question. It's on similar level, but instead of music, what about movies and TV shows is your experience of those different at all when you're high. You know I'm not a big move, your TV person I. AM my husband's born to that stuff. I'm really kind of like a I'd rather listen to music or the down learns something but every. So often like, but I do enjoy a canvas I will like to watch documentaries or whatnot I. do feel like get a little more into it, but I don't want to say that it's because of that I just I don't you know I, I, love. I just like to be. I. Would like to be in the feeling of what it is to feel connected with the plant. And it's not always to be obliterate is just to be. Yeah Yeah are there certain types of documentaries, certain types of documentaries? Gosh. AM hugely into okay. I'm a I'm a Dork. When it comes to intellectual Shit I love Dr Jordan Peterson. He is probably one of my favorite people to listen to because he takes my ass down to these rabbit holes which I know cannabis can allow me to get there. In a more introspective way like I was saying earlier, sometimes they'll take into these meditative spots. In Dr Jordan Peterson is one of those people that I can listen to and having the background whether I'm watching him. We're just listened to and while I'm in the plant medicine, it will take me to these places where I can really reflect and absorb the Insight that he's offering to me, which is something I really like instead of coming out a mother numbing out with T kinda profoundly learn stuff that brings me depth. You know what I mean of who I am the fuck am I in this stuffing poker game of life you know I want to know what God damn cars showing up to the table with. I agree I I've been I, listened to a lot of podcast and recently, I've tried to focus my podcast more on this term on the side of news and science. So I can learn about the world more. I was always interested in science anyway But you know a lot of the ones that are more like mindless humor I still enjoy but I don't listen to them as often because I wanted just know more about this world and yeah, like you said like who I am. So. Another sort of similar question. To like music and movies and TV, you've already sort of touched on this a little bit. What's your experience of food like when you're high see now this is wonderful I'm a foodie and my sweetheart manny, he's a chef. So how fucking perfect over relationship is that? Okay. Hello. So yes, we always have amazing food in my fridge. I particularly gravitate towards. Anything Spicy. I Love Asian food particularly, Thai food that is probably one of my favorites and. They beauty canvas and food holy. Shit. Again, don't even get me on the adapter cord of the herbs too because that with the economic system let's just talk basil like Holy Basil and Thai food is very, very common as we know it's if you're familiar Thai Food and Holy Basil is beautiful for undergoing. It's a filled with amazing turbans. So the TERP beans also helped drive the canvas profile of the candidates experience for me. That's one of things that is beautiful about enjoying nature. When you're smoking out, you get to smell the Turpentine of plant and the Turpin are there's a one hundred and fifty m in the plant of cannabis but there's also the everywhere because turbines are the cow pound that make the essential oil of. Plants, it's what makes a cure it as medicinal property plant. So when you enjoy food when you're enjoying sense in nature while you're on the plant, you are raising your tone to while you're at it. So it's it's gorgeous to enjoy food wire fucking I, I love it. I. Love The Spicy I. Love the Basil's Gimme that the you know like the heavy Rosemary's and the things that have a lot of flavor garlic's. So food is one of those things that when you're high well I mean anytime. But especially when you're high, there's the physical enjoyment of it. There's the flavors that you were just talking about, and then there's the mental side of things you know there's there's obviously that head high that we get What is there? Do you have a different mental state about the food when you're hide you experience it in a different way what's going on in your brain? I've noticed I've recently gotten into this phase of really gravitating towards mangoes. Because, of just love mangoes the it's a Mexican thing. It's maybe it is but I love mangoes. Especially when I'm after up coming down off my mccandless experienced, you know getting back to. Planet Earth or whatnot but I love Mangos I. Love Dried. Mangos. Juicy. Delicious mangoes in that Mersing in there that sedated delicious deliciousness It's good for digestion. Fruits especially in the summertime I do gravitate towards a lot of fruits ravage when I smoke. Yeah. Nice and on sort of a similar. Similar tangent with with the physical and the mental. The next topic is sex know that's clearly one of those that's very physical but also very mental mental. Yes it is. It's delicious. I. Love, sex in cannabis. Absolutely delicious it does allow. A to me I feel more connected with myself. I'm already pretty. Pretty comfortable with my body at my age I figured women in their forties. We get certain out where we're just like fuck it. That's this what's going to happen and this is one of my ass foreign bed, and if you don't know how to do it, I'm going to show you or I'm going to coach you or please tell me what you want because I don't guessing games I want to get at this joy and really be present with you. So we like to be. My I think of mind I wanted to own it. I like to be assertive in La to be great, connected and bed and I can tend to. Get, you know give the power control allegation that but I do feel that canvas insects is a beautiful experience I do feel connected more especially my partner he's not a very, very much into canvas but he he does do some times and I do notice it when he's also in that space with me, we do have a little bit deeper connection. Than usual it's pretty cool. Yeah I think especially with that because it is so personal and. Connected that it's You know that's more so than like movies and TV and food that's more. So when you're going to get that personal connection, you can you can connect with somebody on a deeper level in that case. You had mentioned meditation before. What is, what is how is your meditation different when you're sober and high? When I'm sober, I noticed a tend to have a little bit more of an effort that I have to put into calming the Monkey Mind My Monk says the Monkey Mind I go to a Theravada Buddhist. Monk. Center over here close to where I live in my monk the Master Sean the says you have the monkey mind and he's wonderful it instructing us in. Samatha Yoga and digging into ourselves rain really getting into it but I do not want to have cannabis. I can sink into that space where I can drop in a little bit more quickly and a little bit more effectively, which is wonderful and I'm able to stave focused on whatever my mind is staying with instead of being distracted with the shiny balls shine. But sits with set noise blow up live and Yeah. I do love that about about a cannabis in that that I learned from is because of the Ananta might. It naturally boost. In your brain, we have the receptor, which is probably one of the most abundant receptors and our raining is the CBI. One receptor just even idea how important cannabis really is people that when you smoke it. Are. inanimate boost in our brain right so not only do you have floating in your system already but when you ingest cannabis or when you any, we do not to smoke I smoke. So I say smoke but whenever you ingest it, your naturally helping boost that lists molecule in your brain. That's why we feel fucking good. That's why my shoulders dropped in that kitchen after eleven years a recovery eleven years of of relying solely on like Medea Shan and trying to figure out I'm going to put this into whatever you know my recovery is saying my tools to be for that particular. INANDA. My just allows us to really step into that. With a little bit more. At, the Cassini and safely there's no toxicity to it's a it's good for us. You know what I mean. So yeah. Fuck. Yam At tation canvas it's a whole different level Ya and on a similar level what about when you work out or stretch? Yes. Okay. So this is something that blew me away as I was studying the courses to become certified in canvas coaching and. Advising, the studies it started coming out recently that Dr, sue lack talks about and he does his every month on a Webinar. It's free to everyone by the way if you just look up healer dot com and sign up, you can be part of his free webinars and he will go over all the studies that came out recently in canvas every month and the ones from last year and this year. But there was a study particularly that came out about the increase of endo canal annoyed receptors in the tissues. Where there is any kind of injury. Now, we know when we do exercise for doing micro lesions right to build the muscle, right we're stretching the muscles. So we're giving his tiny little these tiny little stretches in in our muscle. So your body's already amping up its receptors in that area. So when you bring in cannabis THC or teach the AV which is the the the Nandi non-indy-car box elated canvas into your body, you're anti inflammatory response to those receptors is incredibly increase. So you are effectively increasing your recovery time while you are working out. Having had cannabis in your system. How often does that shit? That is pretty amazing. I only heard of it. I do I have heard that there are people who do like to get high and workout which I think is weird. But from physiology standpoint, it actually makes a lot of sense. Does and study. Earning yet no, I'm starting to because of so excited about this last year, it was on Edibles magazine I. Think it was. They talked about briefly a snippet of a study that is being conducted with an a fighters and NFL players and. Dial. Just to give you an idea that this is becoming now more accepted in more known. So this is awesome brigadiers amazing stuff in the mainstream guys hold tight for now do definitely do your candidates. When you work out, you will see your recovery time gets increased. If you're doing hemp too by the way, it's a bronco dial. Later in a Vasko dilating constrictors who you're helping your blood vessels, get the blood and oxidant needs to go to those muscles. You're also allowing your lungs to expand to bring in the oxygen necessary while you're working out. Yeah I've been hearing a lot about I know professional sports they're debating discussing on whether or not they should allow their. The white. Knight nothing of the word that the sports people, the guys who play the women who play sports. The athletes if they should be allowed to to smoker use cannabis in some way. And I mean I think especially with the way that the country is changing that sounds like it's GonNa it's GonNa go that direction. You clearly are very, very, very knowledgeable about the science and everything that's going on inside the body. So my next question is usually are you a pot nerd or pot connoisseur? Obviously the answer is yes but I guess, can you maybe give us a little bit more information? Yeah I. Love. A connoisseur when it comes to the CHIRP. If it's because that's the truth that is the fucking. That's the that is a steering wheel of it. All is the TURPIN profile. Let's get real. The cannabis plant is so gifting to us in the canal annoyance at has, but the turbines are really what drives a medicine to where it needs to go. You know. So I do believe I'm more recant his connoisseur when it comes to the Turpin. Profile. On a cannabis nerd when it comes to learning how it helps my body thrived and how I can help people throw it. It's been one of my missions as I was in my twenties I studied psychology back at cal state northridge when I was in my twenties because I always wanted to help people and then when it got into my insanity of my addiction, I got clean I would study counseling I became a counselor 'cause I've always wanted to help people. So when I learned about cannabis in what it does for people you better fucking believe I nerd the fuck out especially I have my cousin was fighting cancer also for. Oxford two and a half years she was funding is really fucked up new coastal tumor cancer it was attacking her Sexual reproductive system and she had just gone in and out of hospitals and radiation and Chemo and she's a mom to my beautiful little niece who was very young and very scared of that's fine too and when my cousin finally When I started working in the candidates who was just time that she taking cannabis and he was not because of me, it was something that she started researching on her own and she started taking canaveral high doses. And she her I can't after her cancer a operations came back clear. She was like what the Fuck Whoa and she was afraid his anything to a doctor but. I started working. At least started learning from her how was helping her and I'm blurting at the same time how cannabis is helping people you know just by working in the space of learning about it I became a total cannabis nerd spencer total canvas ner because it's alright to be fucking healthy and it's our right to be able to grow our goddamn medicine in our backyard. And to not be exploited as there's no reason we should be put on twenty goddamn filled to find relief from one. Damn Symptom. You know what I mean. That's bullshit. Yeah I mean that's definitely a topic that could be talked about for a long long time. But in terms of being healthy, you have mentioned a couple of times that your Vegan as well. So Am I what? Is. That is your decision to be Vegan related to cannabis at all. No. My decision come Vegan was because I'm Buddhist of when I began to learn about him side and the precepts. Of Buddhism the precepts we live by as Buddhist as a layman are very simple shitload daily eighty something but for. US It's like you don't harm life yourself or others like they're just fucking make sense dude. You know what I mean who the hell really second precept is you don't take anything that is not yours that angle did not give his life for me that animal did not give its child for me to have its breast. have. It's fucking child away from it to have its breast milk to make cheese and dairy and shit from it. No. Nor did it lay its child for me to crack it on a fucking skillet in have that mother or those beautiful species of animals exploited for for being alive sentient beings for having a no, that's just didn't feel right. So a don't hurt animals or yourself. That's I precept be don't take anything to offer to you and see don't don't. Say things that create division harm or hatred you know don't have sexual misconduct and don't take intoxicants. My approach as Buddhist with the cannabis plant is to not taken as an intoxicant I, take it as medicine. So I was able to step into cannabis as Buddhist with that approach in that respect to the plant. So it's a very different experience as it was when I was younger as it is now when I approached it as Buddhist in as Vegan as the booth. Yes I one hundred percent agree about everything that you just said. Has Your view of the world or even of yourself changed since you started smoking cannabis. I do feel like I just got a little bit more connected a little bit more connected the more I lean into the plant medicine of it and the medicinal part of it and the more respect I have for the plants. Absolutely. Absolutely. I love it. I love it. I'm I'm looking at my some of my questions and a lot of them. You've essentially answered because you know just in in, you know how much is putting your life? Well, it's daily and it's your job. So I think that's a pretty clear answer Let's see what do what do you think your future with cannabis is going to be like You know I'm really really grateful having started in this space working as a as a canvas coaching advisor and helping clients no longer in the treatment setting like I used to that was so. You know now helping clients with canvas finding the relief that they need without having to deal with fucking side effects and toxicity. Bullshit. Pharma is. Amazing, a I see that being something of stepping into more and more Embracing it more and more lovingly, and it just seems like it's opening up for me like I've just to see the progress of my clients. As they're getting the effective coaching with bringing up their under cannabinoid tone, bringing up their nutritional needs, helping them with the plant medicine and functional mushrooms and helping them with like dialing in their their body consciousness in their mindfulness connection with their their health. I, see it being something that's going to be hopefully. Honestly, I would love for to be part of medicine really just in general and I'm hopeful it will be with with such pioneers that we Dr Either Rousseau and Dr Dustin Su- lack and Dr Raphael Meshulam I mean my God when I met them and I was fucking tears dude like God. Damn. Those men and there's this incredible. There's there's so much. Hope of whip cannabis is an offer us in the future. Yeah, we have a lot to learn, and so thankfully, there are people like that who are studying it So the entire human race can benefit from it. In some way, I do have one more question for you. But before I ask, do you have any sort of last words or anything that you know I didn't ask about that you would like to talk about it's GonNa take a long rap if you're cool with that the haven't had a bomb rippin in a minute. Is that cool please? Okay. So that was the one to one. That was a one to one of my favorite have flour. Yeah. Let's and blue dream. Because I like the Turkey and in that it's peppery early. Delicious. So area and see how there is no car. That's Because it's a bronco dial later boom. That's awesome. I think that might be a first for this project. So my last question is what would you like to say to cannabis another way to look at it is if it were going away for a while or going away for good, what would you want to know? Okay this question I love. The guests you've had of answering. This is adorable because everyone has their own way. Okay. What would I say the canvas if canvas was sitting in front of me in this beautiful entity of spiritual gorgeous green goddess that it is because to me, it's a goddess. I would tell her. Thank you. I would tell her. Thank you so much for the gift that she is. The gift that she's been to me as A. Confidence as a buffer to shit. As a sounding board to my thoughts. As a Big Beautiful Warm Green Hug. When I needed her. I would say, thank you to her for being the seductress to help unleash that tiger in me that sometimes look a little extra nudge. You know because she does that too for me. And I would tell her. Honestly. Beyond gratitude. Thank you for saving so many people. Saving, so many people especially the people I'm related to fucking liberal previewing that yes, it has saved a lot of people in obviously has the potential to save a lot more and so hopefully, it can do that and has the potential to do that I wanNA thank you for being a part of this interview this podcast, this project we definitely had some weird. Technical issues. There's like a good two to four second delay between us, and if we didn't have that this conversation would have been much more back and forth and would have gone on a lot longer There's obviously so so so much that we could talk about but I am very grateful for your time and the information that you gave me the. Science, the Maka, the flax Chia, the hemp seeds, the people that you talked about I, hope that everybody goes in looks more into all those things and so i WanNa thank you. Thank you the bottom of my heart. This was excellent. Thank you and if you want more Info, look me up on instagram all those amazing doctors earlier they're linked on there and I. Always looked at education on there I will put posts about different things you can put into your diet. The aren't cannabis related or there are Canada's related to. You can always find something of resources when I want to thank you for making this place in this space for us to a podcast to share our personal experiences with this beautiful plan. Thank you so much and. You're welcome. That was kind of the main reason or one of the main reasons why I did this was because I felt like it was this was not really something that people actually talked about You know people who get together and get high together and you know share a sheriff or a bowl or whatever. I didn't seem like this was something that they actually talked about. Well, what do you actually feel it was more like an unspoken thing and so I I hope that more more people can listen and I I'm actively trying to get more interviews and so with that, we're going to end this this episode, this podcast, this interview, and I will put all of Michelle's a social media links and any other links that she sends me. I. Will put those in the show notes So th Michelle thank you again. Thank you answer. That was so much fun.

cannabis Michelle Castro Turpin Gannett Dr Jordan Peterson Denver Mersing La Turpin instagram Earl NFL manny Edibles magazine mccandless Canada Medea Shan partner Turkey CBI
Episode# 5     What Is Your Aim? The Sermon On The Mount

From Silence Something To Say

11:32 min | 2 years ago

Episode# 5 What Is Your Aim? The Sermon On The Mount

"Hello. This is rob Lord. And you're listening to the from silence. Something to say podcast episode number five. If you've missed the first few episodes. Let me remind you that this is a podcast dedicated to finding wisdom to lead a more flourishing life. So I share the conviction that the sermon of the mount is Christianity's answer to the greatest metaphysical question that humanity has always faced. How can we experience true human flourishing servants a piece of wisdom, teaching from Jesus and invites people into this true human flourishing through wholeness that is centered on God and his present available and coming rain and realm in other words, his kingdom. So the sermon of the mount is really the epicenter of the entire bible in address is this question of flourishing, and I wanna spend a few episodes looking at some of the key ideas. Some of the core ideas of Jesus wisdom teaching on what it means to be a good person to live a good life to flourish in this world several years ago when I was studying with douse Willard. He raised the question when he said, what are you trying to do? What are you trying to do? What is the meaning of your life? And he said that it's the nature of human beings to drift away from the point. And we need course corrections. And we do that by referring to our aim to our end, it's hard to live to the point. And the rule not the exception is that we are constantly pulled in so many directions that we lose the point. Or remiss the aim is the sense in which when Jesus says seek first the kingdom of God. He's telling us this is the way that you seek. Meaning this is the way that you find flourishing it's in your name. So here's the central passage of the sermon on the mount it begins in chapter six verse twenty eight in ends with the key that unlocks the entire sermon. Listen again, and why are you anxious about clothing consider the lilies of the field how they grow. They neither toil nor spin yet. I tell you even solemn. Woman in all his glory with not a raid like one of these. But if God's so closed the grass of the field which today alive and tomorrow is thrown into the oven. Will he not much more clothes you have little faith? Therefore, do not be anxious saying what shall we eat? Or what shall we drink are what shall we wear the gentile seek after all these things, and you're heavily father knows that you need them all but seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness and his goodness. And all these things will be added to you. They will begin to come towards you. Recently, I've been reading a book by Dr Jordan Peterson Shirley, you know, who he is by now I mean, he is a clinical psychologist with over two decades of deep in the trenches experienced a tenured professor of psychology at the university of Toronto. He is truly brilliant remarkably. Well, learned precisely spoken and very deep character. I don't agree with everything that Peterson has riding by any stretch of the imagination. But he is speaking to the void that is within our culture in particular for people who are seeking for meaning trying to find the right aim in life. And listen to these words that he says about the question of your aim and the sermon of the mount what does this all mean, it means orient yourself, properly orient, and then and only then concentrate on the day. Set your sights at the good the beautiful and the true, and then focus pointedly carefully on the concerns of each moment. Aim aim continually heaven while you work diligently on earth. So Dr Peterson is interpreting this passage from the summer the mount seeking first the kingdom of God to arrive at this. He saying posit the highest good that you can conceive of and commit yourself to it. Then your day-to-day concerns and perceptions will be meaningfully aligned with the good. Dallas Willard he saying that what you aim at shapes. What you see it's like the world shifts it self around your aim, and that's because as human beings, we are aiming creatures you have to have a name in order to do something you look at a point and move towards it's built right into you. In other words, your aim sets up the world around you. So we need to aim up to place the alleviation of unnecessary. Suffering paying at the pinnacle of our hierarchy of values is to work to bring about the kingdom of God on earth. Now, I find that. Absolutely fascinating that a man who has absolutely no at least explicit Christian commitment is saying literally things that are informed by the wisdom of Jesus and what it means to flourish. So it's not this big job. Job or her big chore to seek the realm of God the kingdom of God. Because it literally is the greatest opportunity in human life. It is what brings meaning into your life. And if it sounds dreary, that's how badly we've missed the point. We've drifted because there is joy, true joy. And meaning and seeking the kingdom of God. Jesus encourages us to seek first the kingdom of God. He means to look for it everywhere. It's like when you lose your keys. You look everywhere for them. Same thing is true about aiming our site and our focus and our day. We look for God in action. That's what the kingdom means. It's got acting in our midst. It's God's actions of love and presence God being with us in the midst of all of our activities. So to look for the kingdom is to see where God his acting and join him in that effort to join him in what he's doing. So he aim at what we value and our highest value to live a life of flourishing says Jesus is to seek first above all outs everything else. But really matters is the rain realm and action of God. Let me give you an. Example. Couple of weekends ago. I was teaching during a day long workshop we were exploring the India Graham, as sacred tool of helping us to grow in our self awareness of ourselves to be more self observant of the ways in which we impact one another and to help us release some of the arthritic grip of our personalities, which sometimes can hinder us so deeply and profoundly from moving into our true selves and from flourishing life with others. And at the end of the day. There was a gentleman who came up to ask a couple of questions, and he expressed the fact that through this workshop through the stay that he spent with us that he began to have a deeper sense of serenity about the challenges of working with so many different types of people. He realized that in many ways, we are dependent upon each other's creation gifts we need one another to become fully human and fully alive. And I was so thrilled to recognize that God was acting in him in the ideas that he was expressing. It was evidenced to me of the rain and realm of God. On final idea that comes out of this unique passage in seeking first seeking above all else. The action of God, the rain and realm of is this I learned this as well from Dallas Willard in his idea that God wants us to receive his grace to enable and to empower us to do those things which we cannot do in our own but grace is not opposed to effort, it's opposed to earning. But notice that Jesus is calling us to action when he says, what is your aim seek first, that's our responsibility. It's taking up that responsibility every day, which is going to enable us to become people who are growing in virtue. That is in the ability to respond in ways that are truly transforming and helpful in the world because our flourishing is meant not just for ourselves is it's really met to contribute. To the world and to the flourishing of others. So what should you aim at then Aim High seek first the kingdom of God. If you orient yourself towards that good, which is the highest good than the present moment will start revealing ways in which your days could be positively transformed by your actions. So we have to pay attention. We can ask ourselves through prayer self reflection. What we could do today to improve the reality of our life in the life of others by actions of kindness and service and love and go ahead and engage in those aims in life. Let me close with a quote from the book the sermon on the mountain human flourishing by Jonathan Pennington. He says this the gospels, including the important part, we call the sermon on the mount understand that the Christian faith. Is a following after learning from and becoming like the master Jesus. Who's teaching the wisest truest way of being in the world. Thank you for listening to our podcast today. If you'd like to subscribe and receive them on a medically you can do that by signing up on one of the buttons on the webpage and also you could leave a comment or to encourage me. Let me know what you like what I can do improve podcast. That'd be great. Now in the name of the rest of father in the name of the calming son in the name of the peaceful spirit. They we in God be one.

Jesus Dallas Willard Dr Peterson Aim High rob Lord Dr Jordan Peterson Shirley Jonathan Pennington professor of psychology university of Toronto India Graham two decades
CROWDER'S COLOSSAL COMEBACK! | Matt Iseman and Jordan Peterson Guest | Louder With Crowder

Louder With Crowder

1:35:28 hr | 1 year ago

CROWDER'S COLOSSAL COMEBACK! | Matt Iseman and Jordan Peterson Guest | Louder With Crowder

"Hi, it's Jamie, progressive's employee of the month two months in a row. Leave a message at the. Hi, jamie. It's me, Jamie. I just had a new idea for our song about the name your price tool. So when it's like tell us what you want to pay. Hey trombone goes, blah, blah, blah. And you say we'll help you find Carbajal to fit your budget. Then we just all do finger snaps while a choir goes, savings coming at ya. Savings coming at ya. Yes. No. Maybe. Anyway, see you practice tonight. I got new lyrics for the rap break. Progressive casualty insurance company and affiliates. Price and coverage match limited by state law. Audio listener, you're listening to NPR could you imagine how annoying I don't know. How people listen to NPR whenever I accidentally tune into it on my radio. I veer off the road. This is of course, the audio version a lot of people are watching the videos more and more of their subscribing for the daily show Lada with dot com slash month club. If you have not it is what keeps these free shows coming these shows will cease to exist, unless more of you. Join at lot with gutter dot com slash Muslim ninety nine annually. That's sixty nine for students veterans or active military, just entering the word as a discount because now Google's been squeezing YouTube spin squeezing if you look at the apple store, they're not necessarily super super pro whatever your view is as long as it's not radically left. They're giving money the southern poverty Law Center. You heard me talk about them. We appreciate the support. And if you feel like you're missing out in some visual gags head on over to YouTube or Buckler members. Here are TV to watch the whole thing. And during the show louder with Crowder studios protected exclusively by Walter on hopper. New comeback. Everybody wants to club. Hopper 'cause ninety nine year. Six students in active military, KOMO quarterback. I don't need that. I can't let right now. So you haven't seen the puppy come on? No. I wish I was waiting to shoot. Again. I seen the kid kids a win. It got ahead. Just like you hop on. She is now. There is you grow puppy. Hopper. Can't believe it. She's really. Thank you come on. Now, you're doing all the work. I can't believe you've done this. But we did. Oh, no, she and got a name. We we call that. He's a great name. A pretty good name. Buddies, okay up. She's the best of seen. You really done. Good really done. Good. You look show tired. What don't you shaved outgrowth ting? No, no. I feel great. I feel great. And this always think if you don't want me mixing around YouTube, no more you don't want. No more than Muhammed cartoons. Tranny jokes was think maybe not going to show, you know, we can make some of the way does one thing. I want you to do. What is it? What does it come here? Bring the show back. Bring the show. What are we late retainer here? Joke. I'm very out of practice started out in Rum's, and then became rockets. I don't know what's. My headphones have intern from horizontal vertical. Everything's. Our own world says new I am so glad to be back. Of course, we have quarterback gear with this new rear engine of. Matty's because people were demanding eye candy. Unfortunately, Gerald edgy. What's the one of the one of the day is Robert fully clarinet? In college, but ended poorly now, you're engaged in third. Share? We have Matt iseman. What is your Twitter, by the way? I don't call it a comeback. Day. Comeback. Soldier boy reasoning. Yeah, it's a comeback. But comeback. Would you say that you were down out? No, no. I was always good. How's it comeback, man? He wanted. He wanted the catchphrase of it's a comeback. But he didn't wanna with mitt that he'd ever had. He didn't actually I did. I'm probably about sixty percent. I appreciate everyone who sent their what? Which is impressive Jordan Peterson approval today who by the way coming in super thrilled that he is Jordan. I oh now he won't be on. Just be mad is to let stick. That I. That's for later the two American into warrior is and what you're doing comedy in Arizona. Get your tickets. It's going to be February seventh through the tenth doing comedy shows stamp comedy comedian. I highly recommended by the way. Surprise. That was sick. And surpri, obviously, you're not blue. But I think you bring little bit more than people expect watching American into war. Smurfs to be funny. You're. Saying that wasn't an example of it. Hey, hold on before we get this. But continue hold that question of the day. We're still bringing that actually to what did you miss most? What we were gone. If anything if nothing why are you here? I'm sure you're in the comments section, of course, we've been seeing lot more and more kind of anti male rhetoric from journalists educators, we'll talk about Jordan, Pearson advertisers. What effect do you think? The next generation of boys who are being grouped into the terrible twos. When you're that. You're a terrible to your whole life. If you're in starts from to always it's from two to peanuts. And it never. But you penises who really gets to the later. Extra. Couples Aquinas scotch tape. But it will make some sense a little later on my new users to have a little bit more more fun. I know. Not going to lie for show back. I was little stressed. That's okay. We are. We are back and we can better than ever. The expectation agree with alcohol for this going really, not exactly I mean, we're here. We're back isn't that enough? And we'll talk about some of the rumors, obviously, what happens inside was on. Yeah. We found out when you found out about the Blair Gavin. Much. We'll talk I'm gonna talk about that in a close along with some some more personal issues. That's when we say that in the grad close, so obviously listen while we were gone. Big story was the government shutdown or is it a good time for pruning. But we thought that how how we everything that happened. What we were going just the first segment seemed really difficult insurmountable. And so honestly, we took the coward's way out. You're welcome. Eight patriot. Rubber pulling out of teenage. Shouting up. Racist speak. Go around the house. God. Move back. I'm sorry. I had to see that. The first time it's been done. That was amazing. But we had to do it all for you. Because we know that your Billy Joel fan. Also creed. News. Knowing would share joint with you didn't struck. With a route. Joel. Water during the table. That's written. I'm not supposed to say. No idea. What is happening reason, political news Alexandria? A look for kasha. I don't know. I don't care researching case yellow Cossio Cortes, Nina into Santa Maria Cortez. She said that she's going to quote run train on the progressive agenda comes from mediate. She used the phrase after mocking her critics telling them to quote, enjoy being awesome for the next two years. Of course, run train is you've forgiven grape. Yeah. Okay. That's fine. Scott step doing Ozzy Osbourne. The difference. The karaoke track. Excuses. Show. At the end of can says, yeah, didn't say. Retired. We're gonna say. I just thought interesting that she chose to that. Because I'll exander Qazi Cortez very favor of the government. And as we've learned with Andrew. Win win the government runs a train. It's late is overcrowded. And nobody joys the ride. So I guess it's better then it happening too early. So good for her. Happens to lots of guys, but we subsidize it isn't an odd choice of words because wasn't that just in the news with cavenaugh run train, drain? Drain the warriors. Remember that? Yeah. Maybe you to ruin a trail baseball. Fury's. Yeah. Like she just wanted to hear some train like drops of Jupiter. Nobody wants that LIZA Minelli. You're looking for any excuse to just pop into show tunes. Right. Exactly. Would you like to sing train yours? Jupiter later going through the same camera clan with the tree. With the Wells Fargo wagon. We'll be common. That's all Murray. Masculinity over here. Inte- pizzas. If you picked your kind of the progressive agenda as a maximum security prison and American tax payers, just drop the soap if you think. I will say there's about one hundred and ten thousand people that voted for an election that are collectively face palming right now because runner train doesn't mean what she think it means. They're not face poem. No, come on at some point. True. She got funk. Yeah. But do they turn go? What is run a train me? She said run train run, which is even more, right? Three because your move. Thanks to him said Alexander Calcio Cortes didn't run. But I can see. And then she became president. And we had to climb through miles of the most foul smell. Out on the other side clean. No. That's how it happens. All right. We'll come back to that. I don't know. West coast Silicon Valley landlord is now renting fifteen hundred dollar studio apartments out two cats specifically to gets west coast comes from. From the owner's father was unable to keep them. But pays for the studio. Also, the cats got a decent deal because an average studio apartment in San Jose, rents. Actually, no, no, the part is not about the thriftiness. It's catch renting out an apartment. That's the issue here really stories. This is news yahu. Huffington Post anymore. You won't believe what Jane Fonda said about erecting a wall. And I think she sits like we need to erect a wall between Donald Trump and the Mueller probe twist. This. Not necessarily thrilled about being back. I love you. We don't have. I think the landlord it was just like he was from New York in the seventies. I'm gonna read this place to to cool. San Francisco is more. Like I love win over the moon light. Actual cats. Can I sleep with the good news is we just we just go too far behind you. So they are fifteen hundred actually cats can't afford it as found work in Facebook community guidelines department, so they're doing well. Yeah. We don't feel bad don't cry for the cats to just angry kept become happy just by blocking you. I'm Ben Shapiro. Your monitors a little small in other news face because recently, also come under fire for discriminatory hiring practices. So that makes sense if you yeah. Yeah. To run training. A really good start. Trust me. We're going to get into the problems of the commercial that when it's going to be what your time. This this investment will the payoff. I assure you train. We don't want to be a part of that. Okay. Turning TIMMY now, I guess entertainment news mccully Kokin explained that his friendship with Michael Jackson said recent podcast Jackson, reach out in the early nineteen nineties because a singer could relate this is a direct quote. I mean at the end of the day, it's almost easy to try to say it was meaning weird. But it wasn't weird or whatever because it made sense. Of course, this has been met with controversy. Given the latest, sixty minutes expose. Comments stand in stark contrast what Michael Jackson wrote regarding Culkin in a recent on earth memoir claiming woke I had sex with him that. Almost almost seems seems to make it pretty cut and dry. Your doing their George went. I notice that was weird. Michael Jackson is amazing to me because he's the one pedophile on earth that people actually still love. I have. No how he gets a Pat McAuley coke is the one child he didn't have sex. When was it? Grows it, right. He's didn't sleep with me. Not to do too much about it network show. Movie was home alone. And the Michael Jackson wrote the song. You are not alone was him in the mirror and who Michael Jackson start with? I don't know if tracks. The original extra ability was not his love because she was not a boy, and she's older than six. No, I appreciate it. And you don't silence our cast. Yes. I get this example, where we talk about toxic masculine. And the reason we try to lump all men as toxic is because people need ministry can't make moral judgments with me, he had sex with little bullies. And he had a twinkie specialized pornographer at Neverland wrenches photographer. It's not like it's Tony in grade school with the Tony germs people want to be free law. I don't care. He was nice to me. No. This is a serial pedophile. Make a judgment. I don't wanna be just be judgmental. He has sex with kings. It's okay. The lump him over in a group by himself and say that's wrong. It's okay to do that. It was okay to make him walk the plank, and it's okay to drag his body and kill hall. It. Here's one of the things this questions. Can you separate the art from the artists you still enjoy his music and condemn him? Right. I mean, this Louis C K where and I thought I don't know if you saw Jim Norton talking to John and talking about look Louis as a human and what he needs to atone for one thing. Louis is an artist is a different thing. But comedians or people who are personalities TD are held to a different standard you. No, you're entertaining. Still you're trying to make points debatable. But I appreciate the sentiment. I think insurance because there's more easily because we've had to do that for years. Sean Penn's a great at one of the best. I think Alec Baldwin is arguably the best actor of are not of our generation, but you could lump them in there. If you watch the edge lawsuits. Huge huge Trump is awful better. But I do think that he's fantastic conservative editors for a long time because they're so far left you. Well, listen, Sean Penn Keesing ask. But he really plays a great retard. You know, that very funny Jim Carey's out of his mind. You know, you're not supposed to read, but I just did he met funded by a foreign caliphate. What are you gonna do? Take our mugs away. Do you think to separate that being Michael Jackson Kokin wasn't commenting on his music? He was comedy like oh wrench and that's to me. It's like this is an immoral first off let's say I said this about per capita. If heated everything everyone said where they were Etta party and he went up into bit, which we now know what wasn't true. But if he did that one up drunkenly tried to make tried to have sex when she kicked him off. And then he left that's not enough for me. That's not enough to constitute rape. If everything they've said about Michael Jackson in-court on investigation is true. It's enough. It's enough that he knew that he had a mole on his left, but Sheikh and he had a Mark on his scrotum. That's enough for me for me. It's enough to say, all right. I have to separate this horrible person, or at least horrible actions in his life from what thrillers pretty good. But I I would not condemn MacAulay Culkin here because this is the storm and a guy who who knows what what happened to him. And hopefully, nothing. But the fact of even if it did this is his story to tell and his way to deal with it. So he's justifying this is his defense by all means, I would never presume thinking sort of. Sort of being sent out as like he's like a homing pigeon for other kids for Michael Jackson to be more pedophile because he was going around great come on over the water's warm. Jesus. Disney's putting wine and the actor. We all know that Machala really stood the test of time. Google has great where he'd been created home alone. Revisit the one successive his career. And remember that he hasn't. But we're gonna jump in with I have to write this string. Okay. Find I was going to say it's easy for us. I get what he's saying. He's got to be able to be somewhat self aware and say, okay, that was very very weird at the time it served a purpose. I wasn't a part of apparently what was going on with Michael Jackson. But looking back as an adult. I can see that was freaking crazy for my parents. Let me be friends with this guy with what he was doing. Right. He's got to be able to say that he didn't say that. And that's why people like what people think it's weird and you fire again, we're applying hindsight to that's what I'm saying. He has having said that please go back to running train on the show. I don't want to be on this train. In continuing with the fem- that I know you'll have pita released an ad linking eating vegetables to better to better sexual realty. Here you watch. Not scientifically back at all. What's everybody? Gonna find studies on PubMed. It turns your balls into Kiwis. It doesn't really here's the other thing that I interesting with that ad because pita look if you're trying to appeal to a typical mediator guy look at those guys those guys need skyer to be the first guy looked like he was a method. Lance pita. I was on the fence, but the zucchini strapped on that that really shield, by the way, it was floppy. Let's see this thing exciting. It was the before. And the Seattle commercial that they can. Slogan to pita we don't eat meat. We take it. I saw this because a court he was talking about it. Right. So she wrote about it on the website. And I saw this show this video to my fiancee last night, and she took a good thirty seconds to come back to reality from what she was like. Shocked by this before we saw the commercial. I started writing a parody that was the commercial. Okay. This is if dammit so they said, you know, what throwing blood on women wearing mink coats, isn't working eggplant in the crotch really works for us. I just don't know who their PR firm portraying the of all these guys inevitable, not one black man because they didn't actually have an eggplant. They were trying. Black nothing. Nothing nothing, by the way. I'm not gonna you know what this shows to smutty right now. I don't like it. I came back, and you guys you need to train go to a men's group. I study so many to talk about the government shutdown, and we'd kind of devises, I guess. I guess now the term is dive, and that's trendy term. We've always called a meat segments. Where we really try to go in and explore the data and try to inform you on a separate government shutdown. There's very little to no, no one is really that affected outside of people who worked for the federal government and not necessarily them. They want you to. It's really a disconnect when I talk people what have you lady who cuts my issues following the government shutdown? I said sure. What you could put me in it to Laurean pre government shutdown today. And I could not discern the difference. There is nothing I think the flux capacitor works perfectly. Well, here's the thing. We talk about the government shut that. It's really many. There's a disconnect the media warrants think that it's this catastrophic event big reason that it's not Amazon still there, you're getting your packages. Imagine. This is people. Oh, you need you need the post office. And I ain't gonna believe me. It's not lost that Amazon uses the post office as well. They just don't use the post office exclusively. I actually forgot that. There was a government shutdown going on until there was a one day delay an Amazon prime mortar. What it said livery? Ordered that this morning, and I have to wait to tomorrow mid. From the GM v. Now, I post up the post office. We don't. We don't companies probably Amazon. We. What what is the DMZ to Amazon would say, well, you know, what you can take your picture at home. Oh, really? You mean, we all have cameras that are better than the DMV's two thousand four Logitech. Average federal worker. I don't have something like eight thousand dollars. Then if it's new cameras, thirty bucks. Even talking for K, not just seven twenty. How about? About. I try to go into set in Venice and create the worst lighting humanly possible on my iphone. I could spend hours try and make it look crappy. And I couldn't create that much of a quality Ferenci. It's that that wouldn't trolling for wars on my space team. Look at you license. We need them. Why why I don't understand? I've never understood it all is anybody even had a positive experience at the DMV. I mean, I think we were talking about this for the Chevy time, you go in your baffled that what happens inside there's plenty of people walking around. But nobody to help you with what you need. I know when I'm at FedEx, I say this wouldn't happen at the post office. It's interesting. I think as you talked about the meat segment, your real focus. There was at your point is Amazon spreads their packages around. While back. They're pretty. This is my my Jesus youth. What what we're seeing though is the efficiency of the free market, right? And that's what I am is on does well to outperform Amazon accounts for some absurd percentage of the US are actually funding them. That's the only reason they can continue Saturday deliveries is because of him is on. And so you see the effectiveness of free enterprise. Of course, there's roles for government. I think we're seeing let's introduce competition into this and improve efficiency. Yeah. Crazy. What do you think you could have companies? Did you think you have them doing roads? Why not? I think it's the pricing to most people. I think I was just like you. I was so focused on business and kind of wrapping up two thousand eighteen that I kind of forgot that there was a government shutdown. People government does not affect your life so much that you're gonna notice it on a day-to-day basis at some point you will notice right? I went to a public park and it said do not enter, but but I did it's closed. I mean, people could do with a lot less government shutdown this show you that. I think sometimes you get freaked out. Days in and you're like, oh, well, this is all right. For the government shouldn't. Yes. Your tax payer. Some of you have necessary job, of course, nationals. I get it. But not all of you what we couldn't possibly spare the lady the NBA hit to go back to she's paid any to tell me to go into another line. That necessarily Honey I've had. The government shutdown. Okay. So here's we're gonna be talking. If you haven't seen this was just trending everywhere yesterday and we'll have Jordan Peterson on Dr Jordan Peterson. I'll ask about the new guidelines for not only how you raise children, but actually for psychologist. I think it's this ties and really you'll let recently aired in ad in an attempt to teach men not to be toxic with let's roll this. Here's if you haven't seen it. Bullying the material against masculinity. Is this the best? What I actually think she's making the same old excuses. But something finally chain. Sexual harassment in the spirit of them. Even had as Venus Ed is just a woman. Here's the thing. Here's the thing. They were talking about toxic masculinity. I don't know if you noticed one some glaring absence. But there was there was before. This didn't make air is this the best. Leaking guests. It's been going on for a child. Can laugh making the same old excuses. We believe in the best in men. Come on to say the right thing. Already. And only. Boys. Watch today. To the point. That they bring boys will be boys will be boys will be rogatory way. Yes. Of course, boys will be voice. And here's just trying to lump everyone. It's not this idea of toxic masculinity. For example. We would all agree beating your wife would be an example of if you're going to use the nomenclature toxic mail. Yeah. Sure. That'd be drunkenly abusive towards your children or not being present not being supportive. Absolutely. But they show two boys wrestling, there's nothing wrong with little boys. Wrestling trying to vilify boys for being boys, and that's a positive thing. You know, what you know, why you allow boys to wrestle? So they don't hurt each other. If they do hurt each other, you separate them how much do you had a girl even playing around with or something? And she she slaps. You nearly oh God that was way too. Because learn how to control yourself. They haven't been rough housing their whole life. It's important for boys to do that. It's important for them to learn their strength and their limitations. So they can pull it back. And you don't have to do that with girls you typically don't find sexist alert girls wrestling with each other. That's not in their nature. They don't tend to get into physical conflict though. And if you've ever seen kind of funny videos, a lot of times girls can't fight because of that. If you have a sister, you know that she can punch right. And that's fine. But what I would like the boys were wrestling outside as well. Yes. Place for you to be if he's punching him in the face and submitting of not letting him go and breaking his arm next to the old land. Dan table shirt. Also notice too when they showed the guy man's planning with the woman that the woman instead of this positive image of a woman standing tower. Women for train them. Him signing, y'all. I think we should be assertive. I have no idea north the negative. We'll get it on the second. You don't have to intervene with girls wrestling typically. We're. To intervene with young girls often being I know we're not going to see caddy girls create cliques why because they're more verbal they're they're more intellectually communicative than young boys. Typically, speaking boys, running faster, girls, talk faster, so boys hitting each other. They start wrestling and girls start problem solving at an early age. They do they develop earlier. Remember, we're always told in junior, high crews are smarter than boys. That's not true. But in junior high. It's absolutely true. There's no doubt about it. So you do have to intervene in different ways. But what they're trying to tell us that we need to intervene to prevent boys from turning into young men. These are eight tendencies, and actually I strongly believe that it's an assessing for parents to shape them in the appropriate direction. Yeah. One of the things they attribute a minute. I think we're gonna talk about it is that we protect like you have to be able to sharpen your skills so to speak by wrestling with other boys and kind of a fun way. In learn learn with the lines at great for you to wrestle with somebody learn with the lines that get maybe popped in that summit or something like that and say, that's. That's too far then to do it later on in life and get your butts kicked right, but they also protect, but that's that's my problem. With term toxic masculinity is because it implies that there's this spectrum. And I think most guys who are masking would say part of being mask. It would be protecting those who are sure learning how to fight learning how to restrain that. And so it's not that this is the spectrum that's gone out of control. These are the people who are the outliers. I would say that most masking guys would say that's masculinity. That's just a bullied. That's the guy who's operating outside of it. I think that's a really good point. We talk about representation of everybody in media. Why is it that men particularly white men aren't allowed to represent themselves? We're talking about this topic masculinity. You just talking about wrestling guys at the Folsom street fair. I don't intervene and tell people what you do on your own time. I express why can't we say, hey, you don't speak for all of us here. I'll speak for revenue. We all hate rape. Yes. We all think that domestic abuse is terrible. We all think that sexual. Respite is awful. But for some reason you the ladies at Gillette in the advertising department speak for us. If you go grab any guy that you know, anyone who's not a convicted felon ask him how he feels about rape ask him how he feels about spousal abuse. What hiccup pick and but felon because they have to protect rapists from other violent felons. That's how much men hate rape and abuse on a train on. But apparently when the next move on. We believe in the best in men to hold other men accountable. So they cut from the Terry crews thing there to some guy filming girls in a bikini girls, gone Wild Thing. They completely omit. The fact that cruise with a salted by aggressively gay man should go right over that. According to see some of the highest rates of sexual assault or actually in the gay community. The only gay term for salt is flirting also lesbian list. There's higher domestic abuse in lesbian houseful. We've talked about this on the show. I don't know. Why that is there isn't there isn't high domestic abuse enga- households? Actually, there's there's low domestic abuse. Probably because there's some sort of accountability. You don't wanna hit a guy who stronger than you? That's true with there's a bit of a. There's a bit of a. It's inconsequential kids wrestling, the grass, but we gloss over that for the sake of I don't I don't we just want to lump all men into this under this aside from gay men and transgender, but also that includes male the females and females any under who says I don't want to be in that. Okay, you're exempt, by the way, hit the notification Bill if you haven't already because scriptures don't mean a whole lot on YouTube and join the mug club dollars annually, sixty nine for students veterans, active military. It's what keeps us going. And that's why we are not on patriots. We will talk with Jordan Peterson about this. We're not dependent on somebody else also subscribing tunes. For the audio stuff. Some anyway, let's go to the next clip. But you heard me, okay. Sweetie. To say the right thing to act the right way. Okay. I'm so sorry. But let's be we have to white guys accosting women and getting stuffed by the big relief. Only villains, by the way in this. What we call this commercial, white guys. Tips are using here. It just doesn't match the statistics. This is important because what it shows that we're trying to do is is socially engineer people. We're trying to tell you that boys shouldn't wrestle. We're trying to compare that right there to the cat calling video does the only reason the cat calling was because it wasn't Spanish Harlem through Spanish Harlem on his Harlem. And guess what? -fensive there. Lived in Jamaica, queens. I went to an all black church ventured, guess what? They talk during church, and they're very vocal with women. It's not considered offensive to a lot of them. I'm not speaking for the black community. But what I am saying is that is highly likely scenario, according to the bureau of Justice black Americans responsible for about five thousand rapes per year white responsible about ten thousand since they only make about twelve percent of the population means that black men commit rape at about three times the rate of Whiteman. Now, I'm not saying that you have to include rapist of all racism creates m saying is can you stop us here. We are not the likely rapists in this. That's a black. He's an likely, rapists. But if one of them were to say like, hey shot, he bring him on. Point. I like that. It's calling this person being accosted when a guy's looking at a girl and sees a pretty girl and starts how in the world. Are you supposed to get an estimate ad if you don't go and talk to them, right? Right. And if that's not a costing somebody now, maybe they're trying to portray in a different way. But can you imagine by the way, there's no context? So no. We assume he was going to rape. Of course has naturally. Can you imagine though, if if that had been flipped, and it was two black guys that were cat calling women who guys that were stopping them? There is no way. Consider. There's video would have made it onto the air. I am not saying people. I'm not saying that all black Americans or most. But I am saying that very small minority of black Americans commit rape or sexual and it's still by the way is significantly more than the guys who you portrays the serial, rapists, because if you go on both right now, just search white, rapists, you will find more and you can read in a lifetime. That's pointing considering the current state of Hollywood where people are angry about Bryan, Cranston. The upside he's playing catch even though he's disabled. He was acting. Yes. People mad now because trans people aren't being accurately represented actors. Let's go to faithfully represent their demographic. And only the demographic why are straight white males representatives while you, that's my point. They totally gloss over the unusually high rates of sexual violence among gay men, and among black American men to make a point to try to socially engineer. You overall the point that men as a group? Hey, rapists, get killed in prison. That's it. We can you want, rapists. Get killed in prison. They go in with violent people who cough banks, and they separate the, rapists. They're gonna run train on that. Ironic the radio because he's a rapist. But it's the principle. The matter just let's separate them and put them in solitary. All right next point. Here is. The tries to paint. Not only minutes all old not only all men, but masculinity itself as something that needs to be trained out masculinity. Like, everything has both positives and negatives we talked about this before he can go back to toxic debunked on YouTube. Researchers have actually recently discovered that destroyed we know this triggers aggressive competitive behaviour in the face of a threat, but in the absence of threat, it's actually associated with pro social traits like being protective being generous. That's prizes. A lot of people out of the way sources PubMed not salon just in case. Read salon one more time. Right. That sounds like something that should be encouraged. Yeah. Yeah. Somebody who's going to protect you when you need to be protected and somebody who's going to be able to turn that off. And then do what needs to be done in another situation. That sounds good. But we haven't Britain people that he's a Doug argentino. And so we're very careful in the sense that you don't want her to be nipping people. But we don't want to train out of her, for example, barking at the door. We runner to alert us if there's an intruder you don't want to breed that out of a dog dog ordinary. They were typically used to protect the farm and also to hunt cougar in out there in Argentina traditional hunting dog. So they're not fighting dogs. They're not people's people's. I don't get in the conversation right now 'cause they're gonna have angry. One side. And then Mike Vick. In that conversation. Well, you said something about dogs. I think is relevant to this as well. You said that when she was biting hopper gels. The trainer actually told you hopper. Snaps back. Don't stop him. They said let him don't let him. All right him nip rather like the mother at the Natalie and dogs, if they don't wanna bite you there's no there's no accidents lip right? If you wanna buy you can buy you're not getting out of the wet know exactly if you have a dog that nips that's trying to sing don't do that. Exactly. And they said don't let them get into a fight. But if she's climbing over hopper while he's sleeping, and he growls or he just gives her nip closer this actually how dogs correct each other exactly where it's like brothers. Do it too. You bet your brother. With the wrestling like in the ad. I thought that was one of the things I watch this Gillette at of course, we agree. The bullying part great. Nobody wants to we agree with what I thought they missed. It was when they started broadening this to the virtue, signaling of like, you said, I'll masculinity being talks. And the fact of particularly what I thought was interesting was making a generalization. But when you look at the ad, and you watch the most masculine guys the guys and the guys who were unshaved guys who were at the barbecue. They tend to be more the alpha males the guys who are intervening looked a little bit more schlumpy the guy who. Split screen from the P to add where you want to get going. This is really interesting here, again, it's what I think the pita missed why I think this Gillette admist Gillette for decades target demographic has been this aspirated macho trying to be a good guy. Necessarily toxic guy, and they went because shade club in Harry's. What do they do? They started going with the every day with ad campaign of these every New England guys who make. So now, they're going virtue sibling into me. This is just it's it's just blatantly pandering to an audience to try to say pay more for our raises. It's actually really it's a marketing gimmick, he kind of nyc and caper Nick, it's like new companies have come up, and they've sort of disrupted these giant corporations before it had a bit of a stranglehold Gillette. It was pretty much to let in BIC unless you're using I use derby. He's an old safety razor works. Really? Well, I've had no. But I think you're looking at Gillette dollar shave is really disrupted the market. Well, we're never going to have this kind of. I don't wanna use the word monopoly, but this market share like we used to have so to retain any market share. Let's make sure that we have some buying on a social issue because our razors really aren't any better. Right. I've talked about this sponsor, Walter listen. They're fantastic firearms out there, right Glock, great kind of basic bitch. But they're good firearms. People will choose the welter because you know, they have the balls to support this show, and they're willing to take a stand and support this show. So I have that you support them and go try it. I still the best greater didn't kill Hitler. Walter did. Hitler. If you look at if you'll follow the trend, I went to Argentina. Kennedy found on Discovery Channel geographic. I'm not sure I'm not. I only do. Next clip. There's another clip we have. Because the boys watching today. I hope so. And you know, what I would hope that instead of watching this Joe let commercial he's watching Monday night raw at W W W W anymore. Point. Sunny, hit me with a folding chair, then say father. I'm Gillette, man. Go to school, and they're fed this toxic masculinity ideology. All they watch the news. They see all the tragedies blamed on masculinity. And now raise that was kind of a rite of passage when you were a kid, right? You went from peach me, he's like, hey, I shave and then you realize we'll greet kids. Start shaving seventh grade. After that. Still five to some of the women need to shave. That's the Venus. Add a Greek training has they're trying to be very diverse. To me that razor ads net razor ads are pushing anti male rhetoric. What good will this do to young men? It's actually it's it's horrible for boys in the line that they use the boys of today will be the Minnesota Martineau. No. The boys of today if we don't raise them differently will be boys tomorrow as well. Never be men. Ask women right now that are in their mid twenties. Whatever looking for a man, it is few and far between they're having to date about ten years older five years older, in some cases to find people who are actually men, right? And here you pointing to. Single. That's right. One of the things that I hate about this ad is that one thing. Don't don't this. Don't cat call them. But so they don't mind figure. One of the problems with an Ed like this is. Every time. I try to. I'm rusty. You're five we talked about this men do need to police other men better we understand that. Right. And that's one of the points that was made in this Akram like that is a good point. But not about anything that the ad said the ad was was trying to say that everybody was bad. And I'm like guys you're losing. Now the ad Cise in associating someone's mistakes. Yes, their gender. Exactly everything. What types turvy world in here. I thought we weren't posted it, but you're absolutely right. Many police other men, but that means you need to let them wrestle. Yeah. He doesn't have some conflict. Oh, wait. Hold on second. Joey talked about wanting to Bank Tommy sister. Now, he has a snow job down. But did you get that? From colorado. Something you guys don't know when you're in the south snow, he frost, I really. Show. Jordan next. None of this is to point out the obvious. Okay. And that Gillette very much like the young Turks is funded by a foreign caliphate. And affords exceptions to Islam glaring exceptions that they don't want to. Peterson next. Choose. Do the twos. Raging for raging. It'll make your. Beef. It's what's been. Today. We're making my papa's famous DNA. I you take jars store cell say and one thousand twenty fourth tablespoon of cumin and your racist. Join me next time for my special beta burritos, make your taste buds literally run from the cops. Oh, there we go. How wouldn't even that music super loudly really loud, boom. Because our next guest many would him as high amplitude, not necessarily high energy, very articulate, but MCI him for the first time today via Skype in believed to be Henley t-shirt. Of course, you twelve rules for life. You can follow him at Jordan be Peterson self offering dot com there. I don't know if the Crowder discount entering from Crowder is still available, but he does have a new discount. It's NY twenty nineteen Dr Anderson. How are you, sir? I'm good Steven. How are you doing? I am doing. This is the first time I've seen not only outside of tweed. But without a collar that looks like you're doing the micro Henley. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I know. Well, I'm in Switzerland, taking care of some urgent business here. So. I didn't have time to. What adopted me sartorial splendor more. Now when you landed in Switzerland. They check your passport and you immediately grew beard or was this month of work. Well, it's out man. I've been working on this for a couple of months. My wife likes it. And I don't know good. That's good to look at. You're lucky I had one for a little bit. And my wife hated it. And she hated even more when we had to shave it into a mustache for a sketch. She actually told me that she refused to have intercourse with me until I shave the moustache. But that when I shave the moustache, I was guaranteed relations, which I think is incredibly unfair. Part of the whole oppression thing. Right. I'm so glad that you're here. I show back. I guess we wanted to have you on. Obviously a lot has happened since we've been gone, but really I think just two days ago. Correct. You officially completely deleted patriotic. Right. Was that when you kind of finalized it? Yep. That's right on the fifteenth. I shutdown my patriot account. I still had about forty three hundred active subscribers which was down from about ten thousand because people had been bailing out in in protest after they banned Sargon of account or Carl bench right now for wisdom. Yes. Exactly. For people who don't know. I know most people watching listening followed this kind of I guess sort of explain to them what led to the Sargon was banned. And then I know you in a few people said okay, ten knee as we say in French Canada enough. Yeah. Well, you know, rather people kicked off patriot before. And other platforms. It's happening quite often people get demonetized, and there's this increasing culture of censorship. That seems to be developing in the tech community. It's understandable to some degree. Like, it's not all this to me that a corporation can run something like YouTube or patriot or any of these really broad broadscale social networks for any length of time because of their free for all nature. It seems to clash with constraints that corporations are likely to develop we'll see all this technology. So new that no one really understands this. But patriot got really heavy handed with Carl Benjamin Sargon of cod who's a mainstream liberal by anybody's account, and they decided to cut him off. And it's just not acceptable. It's not acceptable. As far as I'm concerned. So Ruben Sam Harris dumped patriot pretty much right away. And Ruben, and I talked about it and David Rubin. And we decided that enough was enough. We'd been in discussion with Sam as well. And so. I've replaced it with a different system on my own website for people who are interested in still let's say participating or supporting my YouTube channel. I think are important there is under Sargon was not Dan for anything that he actually said, I think it was because he was on somebody else's program from what I understand. They didn't even really give him. He didn't. He didn't say anything on patriot. He was a different platform. Yeah. I mean, he he used some harsh light which and and maybe his language was ill advisable. I mean, what what the hell that's not the issue here. The issue is that increasingly corporations are taking it upon themselves to decide what constitutes acceptable political discourse. And I don't even think they can do that legally because you're not allowed to discriminate on the basis of creed. But we'll see anyways, I'm not happy about it. And. I just didn't think it was a good idea to continue because of that. So now, we're draw the line with with patriotic versus YouTube, obviously, we are still active or Twitter. What would you say is kind of is there kind of dividing line of principle? There's some that was a precipice here where you said, okay patriots. No. But I'm still going to work with YouTube and Twitter because I know that you haven't had an easy go there who who knows. I had an alternative to patriot in some sense. The YouTube channel I provide free. So I think it's a good public service. I suppose, right and. I don't know. It's like there's a famous supreme court Justice in the United States who said something about pornography. That's probably Germain. He said, I can't define it. But I know it when I see it. And these these calls are sort of like that. I mean, I had lots of discussions with my friends who basically brought up the same issue. It's like, well, where do you draw the line because there's there's crazy practices in every corporate structure. I don't know you draw the line when your conscience starts bothering you. I suppose, you know. I think I draw the line for me. This is just me speaking out loud, and you can tell me whether you agree or down. Very I think they can do whatever they want my issues when they are involved in dishonest business practice. So I have no issue. If you to patriots, listen, we don't tolerate this because we fancier selves arbiters of a social Justice movement or any type of movement, and this is not a point of view that we tolerate we won't allow conservatives we won't allow these kinds of words to use my issues when places like YouTube, say note, we're a platform for all we welcome. All opinions. We welcome all political affiliations and then dishonestly try to shadow Ben. I think that is dishonest business practice and different from censorship. And and that's what I've tried to focus on fortunately with patriot. Right. They have they can pinch valve financially on people. So it's different. Yeah. I also think that that's a preacher implicit contract. You know, when you set up a funding system like that you basically become a person's life. Lifeline in some sense. You know, right Carl's good example because he's devoted his career is career really the production of these YouTube videos for for for that just to be arbitrary arbitrarily dispensed with indicates to me the fundamentally fundamental unreliability of the platform you entered into an implicit contract with your creditors. Which is that you're not going to cut their feet out from underneath them when they're successful. Right. I think violated that. So I definitely violated that. And I remember speaking with Carl about this. I think you were even here quarterback. I said, listen patriotic can just be another YouTube. So the issue while I'm kind of hedging my bets from YouTube with patriots and Twitter with Instagram. And that's a big reason that we started we call mug club here. It's a membership because no one can cut us off from our. And we've said we're not going to have another Cup, especially when it's got patriots logo on it. We're not gonna rattle that cut because it could be taken away. And we're not gonna provide people with any other way to support the show outs. Of reasonably priced membership because unfortunately, people will often flock to patriot, you know, and maybe put in a dollar or two but often if those people they're getting enough value added they'll join up, unfortunately, patriots been so dishonest. I kinda saw the sky falling a little bit. And I it it pains me to see it happening now. But I wish I could say we're surprised. Yeah. Well, I think the subscription model the private subscription models, not a bad one. Because it does leave things under your control part of the way that. Part of the way that people like me and Rueben and some of the other people that are associated with this hypothetical. Intellectual dark web of survived to some degree by not having any. Any corporate masters, right? And preserving that, which is which makes the whole idea. Intellectual dark web kind of suspected in of itself because it it indicates grouping of sorts, but everybody has their own private fiefdom in some sense. And that does offer a certain amount of protection, I'm experimenting at the moment with the production of a system that would serve as an alternative to patriot. But it's well underway. I don't know when it will be launched because software developments a tricky business. But I would suspect in the next couple of months, and we're hoping that we might be able to figure out how to solve some of the problems that patriot ran into at least we're going to do our best not to throw people off arbitrarily. No. So I think it's so important you reach people. I want to see you out there on YouTube. And I know patriot isn't so much information delivery avenue, right like YouTube. It's more so way for you to collect revenue, but I desperately do. I don't wanna see you banned from YouTube or Twitter. I wanna see using your premium content, your pay Walser, you're talking about to get more free content. That's what we we. Have more free content than ever we said, we're not just going to put up on the pay wall. We're going to use the support to be thorn in YouTube side to thorn in side and hire lawyers. We have lawyers we have a lawyer on retainer half. Asian brilliant lawyer. We're in constant conversations. Because men I think what's happened is two years ago. There was no Jordan Peterson not to the level that you are. Now, you obviously existed. I'm not saying that you were metaphysical. Yes. Existed. But now, you search young Turks year there if you search Stephen Colbert, you this show is there and Ronnie footing. And so I think this is where the Burmese throat it could get dicey because you find yourself in the crosshairs and you saw with patriot. But I think more important on. I don't want to minimize it. Finances are super important to you. But more important from viewers perspectives. I wanna make sure your voice is still heard out there. So where's the best way for people to support that in viewership role to support you? Well if. Probably just go to Jordan Peterson dot com, and there's a site there that that I set up it's not a subscription site yet. Tell the we are investigating that. It's just a it's just an alternative for patrons support. And I hope to be offering people who do that some perks in the future. I don't know exactly what that'll be. I'm still trying to sort this out after rather precipitously deciding to leap out of the patron vote. It helps get enough tokens. You take off your shirt, I've heard that that. Especially with the beer. Got enough tokens. They could give me to put it back on. I doubt you've gone from professor sort of debonair swamp, professor now to like hatchet, man. You look like an act like the brawny man right now. So you pull them both off very, well, sir. Well, that's good. I'm glad to hear it here. I'm getting old. It's good to know that I can still manage that at least to some degree. Well. Book. Okay. Can you tell us what can tease at home? Well, it's going to be called either twelve it's going to be called beyond order or beyond mere order. I haven't decided which another twelve rules for life. Twelve more rules for life story, that's working title at the moment. And I've got it. I've thought the whole first draft laid out, and I'm it's I wasn't finished explaining everything that I wanted to explain or deal with in the first book. And so I'm hoping this will be better I'm doing everything possibly can to make it better. And I've got a brief California to or coming up four days in California. And then I'm off to Australia New Zealand for fifteen shows. And so that's pretty much due in February. Yeah, that's going to be a lot of work. So people can go see this at your website. I imagine Jordan Peterson dot com all the tour dates I've really enjoyed the lecture to or man it's been so positive. It's really I went to one hundred fifteen cities last year with my wife. So a lot of cities man, it's Google. Google tracks your movement, and they claimed the tabby my wife went around the world six times last year. So I think our average ground speed was about one hundred miles an hour. So, but how could she get to Austrailia via ground? My question. I do have this question because. Fairly. You mentioned your second book another twelve rules. Why not stop at ten or did you were you inspired by another specifically twelve rules because it seemed like a very very specific number that you've you've decided to to us here. Well. Twelve twelve good number because it's divisible by one two three four and six, and I mean, okay. But most of the reason was that book should be of a certain length, but not too long and all of chapter should work together. That's what I wanted to do to make it a coherent whole because each chapter stands alone. But I wanted it to be a coherent whole that seemed to happen around twelve and so. Apart from the handy -ness of the number in some sense. There was the fact that it just seemed to fit with. Fits nicely with the idea of dozen a unit doesn't. And it made a book of the right links, right coherence, and so and because it was. What would you say it seemed to fill a need people books sold three million copies. Now, believe worldwide. And so I guess humility doesn't appear on your personality chart. She's way to make us feel small, but I understand ten would've left me wanting. I wouldn't have wanted that. I wanted to make sure that you were satisfied why I had very satisfied, and I really the personality. Of course, I'm looking for if book Tunas number is booked to book to number two as good as number one. I think I think we're all in for a treat. Gosh. Substitute kindergarten teacher. I believe we're all in for a real treat. For what happened? Speaking of treats, you were just talking before we we came in from the break here about the new is the APA guidelines for raising. Yes. Okay. Engaging in therapy with them. But yes for raising the American psychological association guidelines for the treatment of men and boys, psychological treatment, minute, voice, reached like, bloody social Justice where your manifesto. Yeah. It really does the language is just unbelievable. So in the first few pages of the guidelines. So this is the professional body that governs psychologists, which makes it really pernicious guidelines because it opens up the specter that if you don't follow them that you could be gone after by your college for not adhering to proper standard of care, which I think is probably lurking in the background of these conniving. Ideologues. So mean, here's here's what they start with with definitions. For example, this is the first couple of pages. So of course, the first thing we need to define his gender. And then SIS gender is the next one then gender bias and then gender roles strain, then masculinity ideology. Right. So that's that's nice one gender role conflict and oppression and privilege. So and that that's the that's the introduction to the entire document. And so it's not a guideline for the treatment of men and boys. It's a it's a it's a postmodern manifesto guys in the language of of of pseudo guys. What would you say disguised in the language of psychological science? It's an absolutely appalling document. I'm embarrassed to be part of the same profession as the people who produced this and. This. This is my question to you. Because you know, you've talked about how this might have been going on in in the corporate side we're talking about patriot for a while. And now they've gotten worse or maybe we've just been able to shine a light on it recently. There's kind of a debate about that. How long has this been going on in the community of psychologist because you know, if you have the DSM four five it seems that I've read quite a bit between four and five were they've changed terminology. And my Saikal said that they're probably going to change the whole transgender transsexual definition that it's not necessarily determined by science. How long has this been going on look? Psychiatric diagnostic categories are weird hybrid between science and and let's call an engineering because medicine psychiatry being part of that. Let's say clinical psychology as well is more like engineering than it is like sites. Right. And it's it's a matter of doing something in the world, and there's many masters, you have to serve as a psychologist or psychiatrist there's the scientific mousters let's say based on research, but there's there's the interplay between the science and social norms and ideals that are partly social and partly biological psychiatry place. What what it's an intermediary rule between all of those loci of of influence and so diagnose two categories do shift around. But the terrifying thing is to see it come under the sway of what's what's clearly a very, very narrow minded ideology. And. And I think it's terribly disruptive for their for the profession. I mean, I'm sure that this document, although it's pleased number of people as has radically decrease the possibility that many so-called traditional men or men who have any shred of traditional values would rather suffer miserably than ever risk going to see a psychologist. Right. And that would certainly be my attitude after reading a document like this like, I wouldn't I wouldn't see you guys. I wouldn't go see when you guys if I was crawling half dead to the window. I was going to jump out of writing and the window that I think it's inexcusable what they've done. I think I think if you jumped out a window your beard would jump out about five seconds before you would with the thickness see the beard, and like there's a Peterson attached to that. But I. This one thing. It's also full of lies. So here's the biggest lie. All right. So the idea is that masculine aggression is a consequence of the normal socialization of young boys by men fundamentally. That's that's the core message, and that's complete nonsense for variety of reasons. The first reason is that the the evidence indicates overwhelmingly that boys from fatherless families are for more likely to be troubled antisocial criminal all of that characterized by psychiatric disorders alcoholism, drug abuse. You bet. So the absence of men actually is what's producing the violence that theoretically decry not the presence, man. So that's the other thing is the notion that aggression in manage socialized, also not accurate. So that data that I think is reliable indicates that at the at the age of two there's distribution of aggression now boys two year old boys are more aggressive than two year old girls. But there's a some set of boys who are really quite aggressive at two they're likely to kick hit steel and bite, that's definition of aggression. But almost all of those boys are socialized by the time their age four. So what happens actually that a lot of what's socialization does is make people less aggressive. And it's obviously the case that the firm hand of present father is one of the forces that reduces aggression. And so not only is the document. Ideologically ridden in a manner. That's absolutely reprehensible, but what it says, I believe to be scientifically. False. Right. Father and household decrease. Decreases, the likelihood of stripper daughter, but should Denzel Washington talked about this. He talked I think little yum, yum. And Emerson when asked about the black community said, they'll yum, yum. They talk about him. He he killed people at seven years old at that point. What society it was schooled. You think that's no there wasn't a dead in the home and the interviewer stopped. Didn't know what to say he was talking about this kid who was a murderer who didn't have a debt. And I think we talked about this in the previous segment with Gillette commercial. I think in irony. Well, it's one in the same problem. I think is important irony that you pointed out is they say, you know, the problem with toxic masculinity is then boys won't discuss their feelings. They won't cry. Here's the thing. Boys should be able to discuss their feelings. But it should be. Okay. If boys don't cry sometimes anger is there crying and tell you what someone who's gone through as a man who suffered from chronic pain that I had to get an order. I will tell you. It is something that often because of progressive leftist or because of people who throw these diagnoses to everyone it made me less likely to try and seek help because I'm gonna well, that's not a real thing. That's just something that people paint everyone in that category. This minute psychologists say positive steps, and they're gonna tell me to choose my. They're not going to come forward. That's an irony. That's. There's also no bloody evidence that discussing your feelings is effective, psychologically. Right. So so what what's -ffective psychologically, is seems to be a lot more coherently competent than that. So for example, there's a good body of research done by James penny. Baker at the university of Texas at Austin, and he actually tested to find out whether the expression of feelings had a curative consequence what he found wasn't that wasn't it at all. Like, if you face something in your past that really bothers, you let's say and you discuss it you get better. If you build a causal model of what happened that you can understand the forces that were at plate. So that you can eliminate the forces that weren't that play. So it's not as confusing, and so that you learn how to avoid that in the future. It's actually the development of cognitive understanding that's useful from clinical perspective and not the expression of feelings, right? So what I meant when I was talking about feelings, I met you men tend to this. We've taught men tend to suffer in silence, meaning the often won't reach out for help for a solution psychology. He's actually I guess they call like an executive psychologist, and I go in she goes, well, what are your stress levels. What are the major stressors? This is what you can do to eliminate those. How can you these are very tangible steps to take a lot of men won't do that. I don't mean just talk about how their father and hugged them enough. But a lot of men suffering. Silence. And it's because of some of these things you're talking about where it's also it's true. It's also the case that men are lower in negative emotion than women. And the Lord of genetic regardless of what the bloody social construction is say, and so it takes a higher level of distress to two. What would you say to motivate men too? To pay attention to what the stress is. And I'm saying this, look I'm saying this is someone threshold for negative emotion is pretty damn low. Right. Like, I'm pretty emotional guy. You know too much to my chagrin frequently oh, believe me. We did the personality test on this program for the whole world. We saw I think it was three percent polite. But ninety eight percent compassion, you try you try rectifying that. But yes, go, right. Right. Right. Right. So so part of the reason that men don't discuss their feelings because the threshold for distress higher in men, and that's not it's not obvious that all that's a function of socialization, it might be in part. But that's another thing because people who wrote this radical social construction, they believe everything is consequence of socialization, right? There are no genuine gender differences. Anyways. It's an appalling document. No, I said, I'm embarrassed to be a member of the same profession as the ideologues who. Crank that out in all of their what do you call it virtue, signaling? Self-righteousness? I go image feel on recover ably. I go with lary. But I think they're sitting them if you look it up Dr Jordan Peterson. So glad you're here for the first show back Jordan Peterson dot com. I want people to stay and please do actually reach out behind the scenes if you're talking about creating pay well content. We might be able to help you with that and self authoring dot com. The promo code of credit doesn't work. It's NY twenty nineteen correct. Yeah. That's for the future authoring program, which helps people plan their life. That's a New Year's special for everyone. It's fifty percent off. So if you're still looking to make some resolutions authoring is a really good planning program. Yes. I did think it was distasteful when it entered information in it fed back kill yourself. I thought well, this is this is somewhat bleak. It's almost like the watchmen. It's harsh. But it's actually yes, I understand. And then it said leave us, you're patriots. All right. That is Jordan Peterson at Jordan be Peterson. I think on the Twitter giving all the plugs. Joined thank you so much doctor. Appreciate it be well and enjoy Switzerland with your wonderful. Your mind. What? All right. Listen producer, Tim get out of here. And then mad is on his phone rang. And he didn't even realize a live newest sponsor proud to bring on because behold into patriotic or YouTube liberty healthshare. It's a health sharing company and health insurance. It's built based around liberties and freedoms as. Basically give you the freedom your own doctor. Choose your own hospital. They actually make healthcare Ford -able for a lot of people thought that it wouldn't be so plans actually start at one ninety nine for a single person three ninety nine for a couple. And I think how big the families five hundred twenty nine dollars a little bit more same liberty dot com different from health insurance. It's health sharing. So they're actually zapped from some of the regulations typical insurance companies. And so what that means they can exclude. So if you're if you're living in a diet of fried, Snickers Marlboros or or Chesterfield's film at Chesterfield probably not for you. But I do have liberty healthshare. I've had great results with my father had cancer. Guess what the realtor took care of him immediately. And you have to go to work. If you go back to the best cancer joke off distasteful short, but liberty was health. They were happy with the plug that save with liberty dot com. And we're so good to have them on board. The show get yourself some health sharing. This town ain't big enough for the two. I disagree. I think it can be community your hands you base if. The. Louder with Crowder studios protected exclusively by Walter. There are plenty of great firearm options out there, all we ask is that you try the Walter and let us know try it you'll buy it. See what did there? It's a good gun. We just had a quick call Arnold Schwarzenegger during the break which. Get it going going up here. What was Arnold movie met where he had like a commando? We was using the read jingle all the way. Breathing under. Marsh read you call it. No way you get enough here. Now. That's didn't love and the man was stood clear blast in predator. This is nothing. He can't. And then had a baby and then turned into any Glover. We realize recently what a truly awful film predator too was Arnold. We'll take he was smart. He knows which. Oh, gosh. Train when I was a kid. I thought it was cool because film that I shouldn't see right because more of a horror film in action film, really wash it. And I said this is this. This is really bad. What are you gonna have to go to the closing segment where you're going to be going to be at the house comedy in Arizona, February seventh through the tenth? You can always find me on Twitter Instagram Facebook at and that is I want to say congrats on the comeback, man. Take care of yourself. This is something I've learned the hard way. Your health comes first come back though because I was like. You know, it's very uncomfortable in the breakfast club realize midway through shoot that means that I was down. But I don't like no, it's not. I was always good. What's comeback? But I'm just like the best drink drink all flow. Yeah. Actually, did though. Because Drake is a butter soft bitch from Toronto and he's half Jewish. He played. He played the Jewish quadriplegic into grassy the one kid who couldn't outrun the school shooter now year last name, greatest first name, ever, whatever it is. I don't know the lyrics. I don't like him. I know the area he's from. It's a very nice area. Okay. Why appreciate you coming? So I'm a little upset that you lost weight over the holidays. He's the one he comes in. Hanner? I get I do have to say for those. If you're going to be in LA Arnold Schwarzenegger's, bringing the Arnold strongman classic for the first time ever doing it in Los Angeles. I'm going to be hosting it at the Santa Monica. Pier. The original home of muscle beach, which is why trying to work out because your buddy Brian Shaw. He's not competing. He's already qualified for the finals. Yeah. But he's going to be there. And that dude Brian show if you lift weights and very serious the opposite of calorie deficit for years, and you show up you'll pecan eat, you everything was that what Mark reputa- you need human stronger, you need to drink a gallon of milk a day. What about two gallons quite concerned difficult cheese? Thank you, Mark really scientifically. He can train anybody to get stronger. It's unbelievable Frangieh doesn't really need. That point. My point was it's a great message that we all learn the hard way, take thank you. I'm doing I'm doing, and I appreciate a lot of people out there sent a lot of well wishes. Some of you sent packages to places where I have never been found out beer came in for you. Well, that's nice. I've never I've never been to South Carolina. But I really appreciate it in full disclosure. Listen, I'm still coming back here. It's a long process. I was burning the candle for too long and didn't really take into consideration. What actually needed to couple? There's been a lot of rumors don't have aids don't have cancer. I said I don't have. Like, you said he has cancer. I swear I heard cancer. And okay, cure, some other things going since I've been gone. This whole kind of crtv is what it was now. There's a blaze with Glenn Beck. Things happened with Gavin. This is my club. We're funded by you, the viewer mugs. Let me tell you. I had no idea about a lot of this stuff going. Okay. I've never worked for the blaze. I don't work for the place. This is something that a separate where we actually allow you to get more value for your for your buck in agreement with crtv. I guess now the place where you get more content. I didn't know about the Gavin mcginnis situation until you did and let me really clear gap McGuinness has an open seat in invitation to work on a permanent basis here on the show if he wants to he knows also do own show. I doubt it because not only contractual issues, but he's in talks with other places as he should be by the way, he's a very valuable commodity likely doesn't wanna move. But I want to be really clear I love Gavin as far as I'm concerned, if he wants to work here, or with us all needs to do is say, yes and the same by the way, we just talk Peterson the same goes for the rest of you who've been bludgeoned censored band. We can now build an army. It's not just letter Crowder, the whole purpose to Monka was we can create more. You wanna work come work here? No, more ten cups. We're not rattling around Tim. We especially tin cups that are emblazoned with patriot. It's not even your Cup. We've talked about this for a long time. It's not to insult anyone who was on patriots. But effectively you are begging people for money on a platform that can be taken away at any second. We because of you don't have to do that anymore. We're incredibly fortunate in an industry like this just like any industry a lot of things can happen behind the scenes that some people can't know about. So for example, we've never used patriot. For reasons that are now apparent we've never done super chats on YouTube for reasons that will be apparent I've been warning against this for a long time when it's not your Cup. You wanna support this show joined clip, that's great Michael because nobody take it away from us. That's it ever. No, one can snatch you from our hands or us from yours. We know exactly what we're doing. Well, we know what we're doing. We know exactly who you are. We know exactly what the priorities, and that's what I do wanna talk about priorities. We don't know exactly where it will be a year from now maybe two years from now, but I can tell you. That will be there that this will be you can support us that we will be creating content for you. Because my club is ours. It's not patriots. It's not the blaze. I like going back friend of mine could guy I have no idea. What to go on don't directly involve our program as it stands right now, especially when affectively fighting for my life with health issues. It hasn't been at the top of my list. Let me there's some things you can companies your person of industry, probably someone unemployed people here. It was a cheap shot. But listen, you can better yourself. We've had some people in this company. Do some things that have affected the program, then I'll never talk about. Okay. I respect for them. Because some of them don't want us to the same thing happened everywhere I've ever worked, and that's happened everywhere you've ever worked. I can never promise you that. I'll always be happy with the changes that are outside of my control, for example, Gavin, right? I can't I said you'll be happy for that matter. What changes that are outside of our control? The only thing I can promise you now. Mighty. But everyone here the ladder Kreider team that we will always focus on creating content for you the fans viewer listener period. That's all I've ever done that had to do the art for me that never even occurred to me during this break what occurred in getting healthy. So that I could do this program properly for the people who deserve you deserve this program. I talk a lot about entitlement. I know that people shouldn't feel entitled to programming, but you've earned it because you've paid us to do the show for you. And we owe it to you to do it correctly. This has been going on when things happened behind the scenes at PJ TV where a lot of people aren't familiar with PJ TV. This is back when I had a blue bedsheet background, I focused on creating content as opposed to the drama behind the scenes behind the scenes, Fox News when I lived in New York drama going on like the world's biggest high school, I solely focused on you viewers fans at that point. I think it might have been fifty thousand subscribers on YouTube period. Whenever now getting into pissing contest on YouTube. You've heard about that. Why don't you? Why don't you? Sound off on this. Because it's not worth my time. It's not what you're getting into a Schwantz. And measuring contest this whole team here instead decided to focus on creating content for you to view our period when I worked for year and a half driving across the entire state, by the way to do a radio show that was syndicated. I had people payroll was never paid a dime. You can go back and listen to the show was syndicated across Michigan. Then eventually fifteen markets never made anybody we really close to curtains. We didn't talk about it on here. We focused on you at that point viewers just listener period, creating the show for the listener. When of the things have happened here behind the scenes, a lot of Crowder, some things you can never know. And something's tear me apart inside like a million. Hacksaw trying to rip out my gut. I'm just trying to focus on creating content for you. And when things happened the hind the scenes outside of your control. In my side of our control going forward. We're always going to be focusing on content. You know, what I want my own horn here. But the promise of making is backed up by a pretty long track record that encourage you to look up the same thing happened when I did stand up, you know, Matt Matt was here for the United States. I remember I did a show at Champlain college. I was starting stand up comedy. We're doing show for thanksgiving turkeys. And what happened was the show was on a Saturday. And there was an open house on the following Monday. The school kicked us out because people are the open house for the following Monday. Said we technically have it for the whole weekend. We will you need it for the week. And they said, no. But we think you might you might make dirty. What did I do? I actually hired a third party cleaning company, and prove that we would leave the place cleaner than we found it. They said no turns out they didn't want the show to happen. We got booted from that school. What did we do, Johnny? Boy, our producer can tell you. He was there. We actually kept the show because we had to spend eight hundred dollars a ton of money to rent a feeder across. The street from that school Champlain college the school cross the street was a you can either do your shade, don't fetch it me on that. I don't remember. It wasn't my school. They were really weird you two forms. I wasn't into it. We rent out that school. We had people with signs in front of the school that kicked us out directing them across the street because we couldn't not do a show for people at that point wouldn't only paid for but giving money to cherry, and it's a lesson that have always tried to apply to every aspect of life. And it's not just about the show. You came to. I learned that. Yes, you need to prepare. You need to organize you need to have continually plans. We've talked about that. But there will always be obstacles that will form against you things that don't go as you expect. Sometimes curb all's thrown at you. And they can be really really hard. I've had a few lately. But if you have a focus if you have a singular purpose, and you know, that you're rightfully living in your purpose. When you hit those walls, you can fight in scrape and claw your way over them. Because you have a vision of what is truly important, you usually can get it done. And sometimes by the way, you will have to accept that. You can't. And I had to do that recently. I'd say, you know, what I can't do this as well as I need to do it for the viewers because I'm not well, but guess what? Until you've done that you couldn't possibly know. What can't really is? Until you hit a wall that you thought was something that can overcome and you did. And then he hit the real wall. It's like twister a thriller movie. Right. It's twist. It's a curveball thrown at you. But you have to know how it ends. So you know, what a curve actually is you have to know what's insurmountable versus what you can actually control twenty eighteen was a really hard year. Let me tell you this. So this is just. Straightforward as possible. Can't give you all the details year of curveballs after curveball after curveball. Deep personal loss. There's some tragedies that can't necessarily talk personal it wouldn't be proper tug on the show, even some blinding physical pain that I was struggling with we talked about this a lot of times men suffering. Silence. I did that it was stupid. It was stupid of me to twenty team will probably go down as hardest years of my life of the lives of many people here, by the way, they're people who moved across the country to work here there people had no experience some of the job positions where they are. But just had an attitude in grit in had to push so hard that. Now, they're seeing at the end of the tunnel slide at the end of the tunnel. But you know, what else? Yeah. Was a hard year. It also go down as the year that this program grew exponentially that this program pulled passed late night shows on networks in viewership influence in scope was a fraction by the way of the budget of just the other hosts salaries it'll go down as the year twenty that changed my mind was invented. A lot of credit this show. You surpassed the young Turks without tens of millions of dollars from foreign caliphate. We did it by selling fricking mugs. Think about that for a second. And by reinvesting what you generated in the movement. What you've created every single one of you watching listening and supporting through mug club. We've been able to have these accomplishments even a really tough year. It'll go down as a year that people like you not only made your voices heard. But then all of you. Now, we talked about this being heard on the same plane as the voices that have dominated the entertainment industry media and big tech for decades, not for decades since its inception. There's never been a time in media or big tech. That was not dominated by far left us twenty team. Go down as the year that your voices that our voices were no longer marginalized. I want you to think about that for second a couple years ago on YouTube just to if you search for something anything that was going on news. You were bartered non stop. With only one voice that of the far left. Not only the far-left. But the voice of presuming by the way, all of you were searching, we're left to spy default. There wasn't even in alternative all of you. Okay. All of us. We just considered fringe. They try to fit all of us conservatives what you call. Libertarians constitutional federalists whatever it is red pillars. You name it racist, homophobic, sexist baguettes than all, right? Was a big one. They tried to do in in in twenty. But in two thousand eighteen for the twenty sixteen sorry election. Gosh, it's only two years away. I guess technically. It's going to be three. Can't think in twenty thousand for the first time, you see you search you see young Turks video where they're CNN pushes ally. We're all right. There is has a summit were there you to push the YouTube heroes censorship program were there. And guess what? That means if were there your there and for the first time, we're all they're every bit as loud as the voices of opposition personally. Twenty eight team will go down not as only a hard year, but a year breakthrough breakthroughs with my wife, my family breakthroughs with my health with this company. The point that I'm making here is pain the obstacles issues outside of your control that often hurt the most they go hand in hand with breakthroughs. They go hand in hand with eventual victory. And if you can keep sight of that if you can have a singular, focus, if you know, what it is that you were designed to do if you can have the faith to know that breakthrough around the corner, not only can withstand the pain, but you. Embrace it. You can count them all joy. That's why the blackboard here. Now, offering get a shot of this is is I guess permanent. We use permanent shock. I don't know. What that doesn't qualify? Etching with one of my favorite quotes from Andrew. Talks about he talked about being happy warrior. He was the first guy who ever ever posted a video of mind beyond me having you Jim. Find your purpose. What I'm getting it? Find your singular focus have faith in it and embrace the pain embrace the struggle. And it can all be joyous. I don't know what twenty nine hundred holes hell could be harder than twenty eighteen. I don't know where muklewicz gonna be exactly what channel will be. We might not be here on YouTube. I only know that we will be in some capacity period, and we will be focusing on creating content serving you because we hear you. I hear you. And I in the people here are never going to abandon. Might have been a patriot people should be. We're not going to abandon you can scrape together fight clock scream and bleed together and embrace the pain that comes with it. Because with that comes breakthrough with always does twenty nineteen year show up will be that's all I can promise will always be next. Big week.

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Ep 19: The Carnivore Diet - A Year In Review

The Super Human Life

43:22 min | 9 months ago

Ep 19: The Carnivore Diet - A Year In Review

"Dan Physical Transformation cited. All you Murray it out can focus on just thirty days. I lost twenty one pounds and roughly nine percent body fat without losing any muscle at all sneaking everything. I'm trying is not working will. Here's an option. Here's something that's proven to work. Welcome back clock on your host. Miss the only podcasts in the world dedicated to helping men break free from Nixon through the power of faith and fits. It is our goal and with every episode. Help you take back control and rebuild your body mind and spirit and we do so I bring real involved conversation. Could people just like infant. Find the place in this world while dealing with the everyday struggles in battles. Debbie all speaks. Notice that we're all greater. I Civic Marnie morning staff. Then take control of our mind and body fitness then we can ultimately create the always dreamed about superhuman. If you've been by how grateful and less inflammation here with me today. Let's get onto the today show. Uh what is going on guys. Welcome back to this super human life podcast odd cast so incredibly excited to be here with you today. once again I'm coming at you by myself have solo episode Episode Eighteen gene on writing a vision of future that you can create. He's got tremendous feedback. I'm so grateful On the responses that I got back I had a call to action at the end of that podcast and there were a handful of guys that reached out to me some excited to be starting a journey with some of you out there and if you had not yet listened to that episode mixture go back after you're done with this one and Listened episode eighteen because as where kicking off two thousand twenty. You know where a few weeks into this new year this new decade We WanNa make sure that we have our goals in line with what we WANNA accomplish. We WanNa make sure that we have a plan to fill our dreams fulfill our purpose. And that's what I really talk a lot about in that particular episode so now today like I said I'm back here by myself. According to the sole episode. I told you guys on that last episode that this was going to be a part of this year's plan bringing you more single base battle value content episodes. Were still going to be doing a lot of these Interview style episodes. And I got some incredible guests lined up here in the coming weeks so really excited about Bat But today what I'm GonNa do is I want to do a one year recapping review as the majority of you probably know I have been in on Carnival Diet For just over one year so I started in January of twenty eighteen. So in this particular episode I just want to Recap Ed Review. Talk about Why I got into the Diet? Talk about how I set it up. Talk talk about some of the early successes that I had on it and just really reflects On the last year of being on this diet you know these type of episodes they they do two things for me. Obviously they let me provide value. You got to you guys and share my experiences My results in my expertise in certain areas But same time it. It gives me the opportunity to work some some of these ideas out in real time. You know viewing it as a way to really think about in sort out some of the things that are constantly on my mind. I don't think that there's any better way To think about your ideas than than speaking them. So as I'm having this conversation with you guys that's what I'm trying to combat as I'm trying to learn more on things that are really on my mind the things that I'm constantly thinking about and for the last three hundred sixty five plus days The Carnivore Diet has been at the forefront forefront of my mind because it really was a transformative year So this episode is all about that. It's it's going to be a recap review like sat on in my experience with the practical tips. You know if you guys are thinking that maybe now is the time for you to get on a carnivore diet. Hopefully there's some some actionable steps within this show that'll help you get started I truly believe that There's power within this diet Everybody's GonNa have different reasons in in why they join in all explain mine on why I started in some of the people around me have started. But if you're looking for building muscle we had we had episode eight with the legend Danny data talking all about building on the Corner Diet in on episode ten can although wasn't specifically carnivore My friend Mike Mike. Gorny of goes Kito talks about his experiences. They're getting to more of meat-based I and I got some other episodes lined up with an upcoming guests that are going to be going deeper into some of the practical ways to implement this diet because it's not as easy. Well it could be as easy just eating main. I'll talk about that and and kind of my journey But I want to make sure I set you guys up for success. If it's something you're thinking thinking about getting going Now before we jump into the actual review and recaptured a carnivore diet. Just WanNa remind you guys at the mission of this. PODCAST is to help. Men Break Free from the shackles of addiction through the power of faith and fitness Do that throughout the conversations that I have with the amazing guests that we bring on but also the practical will real life tactics and tips and episodes like today so I appreciate you guys for two. I'm hoping that you find value in this for everybody. That has subscribed has left a review. Thank you so much where we're approaching sixty plus reviews and just a short six months or six plus months launched on on July In my goal is to get that number two hundred two thousand to ten thousand four hundred thousand new. I wanted to get this podcast in as many people's ears as as possible. So if you're out there listen to this for the first time. First of all thank you so much for tuning in Not sure how you found us but I'm so incredibly blessed to have you here with me today. Hey if you did find value in this episode you have not done so yet or any of the episodes. There's something tangible valuable in what you got out of it if you can do. It's true things obviously share it with somebody That's important especially within your life. You know a mission driven podcast is specifically that it's it's driven by emission. It's it's driven by mission to help the world to change the world to impact people's lives in the only way we can continue tim you to do that is by consistently sharing it with as many people as possible so if you know somebody in your life that can find value out of what we're talking about here just turns favors senator send him the link I tunes or whatever podcast platform you're listening to and the second thing As you guys know we live in this technology technology based world. You know Where we have these incredible platforms people around the globe but a lot of these tools and resources are based off of Artificial Intelligence Computer Intelligence Algorithms and one thing that these podcasts platforms look for as they're promoting shows is the feedback in response. You're getting from other people. So here's what I'm saying is yes did he. Seven fifty eight plus reviews that we have right now is amazing but imagine the reason that we have if we could get that number to five hundred order to five thousand so fun value in the episode to me one favor just take take a few minutes drop us. A drop is a five star rating and leave us a written review That's I'm GonNa let I tunes or any other podcast platform no That this podcast brings value. It brings change to people's lives And and those platforms will continue distribute will continue to put this podcast in front of more people so we can grow about your ways. We can grow up by you guys sharing it which I was asked you to do that. And we can grow it by having the platforms themselves. Sheriff which we need to tell them that it's something worth sharing. So that's my to ask of you guys is not This is not an advertising show. This is not. I'm not monetize in any particular way. I'm not bringing on commercials. You know this is this is this is a part of my mission. This year and moving forward is to spread the word to spread these conversations to as many people as possible so appreciate you guys for helping helping that out. So let's get into the episode for today. Eight like I said. It's the carnival diet one year. Recap in review. So I I WANNA start off with talking about why I started carnivore diet. Because you're probably thinking if you don't know about the Diet or don't know me personally slaney or you haven't been following my journey along the the last year. If you went to gram and Youtube I shared some some pieces. You're probably thinking like why would why. Why would this guy eat only meat so obviously you guys know? I have been in the fitness industry for over a decade ten fifteen plus years ten. Hang years really really deep in it as competitive bodybuilder. As a coach as a Finnish author producer programs Writing articles have been published on various multiple large Pu- You know feature outlets publication. So I have a background in health fitness and for really that last decade was purely focused on on high purchasing muscle growth bodybuilding. That was my passion in life. That was what I was doing with my business. Coaching guys to build more muscle about what I was doing with my own training now through that ten plus years no I dabble within experimented in had success with a lot of various types of diets no I was what most people would consider a larch human being six foot three two hundred and fifty pounds plus for a really a long time fairly fairly visible ads. September Santa around eight percent. You know and then when I got into shape would you know well below five percent into the super low single digits But at the end of two thousand and eighteen due to a couple circumstances in my life's Byron said I was in and just some habits that I was starting to get into and I talk a more in-depth on this in episode warns. I'm not going to go too deep but just say say that as returned from two thousand eighteen to two thousand and nineteen I was probably both physically mentally emotionally at probably one of my most unhealthy stays in my adult life I had really letting my my weight gates get out of Control My Body my body fat had had skyrocketed close to twenty percents I was mentally fatigued Days fogged you know everything depressed you know. There's there's there's reasons outside of my health for some of those states in circumstances Bolero say rolled into the new year last year. Here I knew I needed to make a change and I had been doing some research on the Carnivore Diet because my girlfriend Stephanie. Walker talked about on these podcasts before Her health had been declining so she Has dealt with and lived live with rheumatoid arthritis from from a very young age and had been a fighter her entire life. She did things that doctors had told her. She was not going going to be able to do competing in fitness show. Winning appro cards just even going to the gym Dr set holder from a young age. You shouldn't work out. It's not good for your joints after years. He's not good for your bones. So she she had so much strength you know. She was able to pursue many of these passions but and two thousand eighteen her health Once again due to some circumstances environ instant etc had really started taking this rapid decline in after visiting over dozen dozen doctors. It's like nobody had the answer. Nobody had the solution. It's like it just kept trying to feed her medicine in me. Kind of being you know The the nutrition. A Guy that I am you know. I knew that there was a way to treat or cure. What she was dealing with through nutrition So I stumbled across oss Dr Jordan Peterson and his daughter. Michaela talked about Jordan Peterson on the last episode But they were doing this carnivore. Diet Michaela had very very similar upbringing to Stephanie Bay. They were dealing with a lot of the same Health issues arthritis in in etc.. So They were the first year that I really read or heard anything about So when I first got introduced to the carnivore diets. It wasn't even for me. It was really Me Trying to find a solution To Turn Stephanie's health around But as I started to dive deeper into this diet I stumbled across. is is large Dr Sean Baker. Dr Paul Deneau. I've talked about him on a few other. Different podcast My Great Fan Danny Data and his wife Laura were just really starting to you talk about their experiences with a carnivore diets. So I was. I was saying both the health benefits for people that were suffering with some real chronic diseases but also seeing some high level performance guys that were using it to fuel your workouts and set world records in rowing and Just power views. Like wow like. I never thought that this was actually achievable to to have this type of performance Without the use of carbohydrates so as rolled into the beginning of twenty nineteen. I knew at least for me from a physical perspective I needed a radical change to my diet. What I was doing how I was living was not working? It was not serving me And I wanted to try something completely new so when I started on January seven two thousand nineteen I set a commitments myself to follow this corner. Were Diet a meat. Weekdays Diet for thirty days rapid transformation was my goal. I wanted to lose. Asmus rate is possible. I wanted to drop as body fat as possible but at the same time I I didn't want to lose any of the muscle spent ten plus years buildings so I kind of jumped out on a limb here not really sure what it was going to entail l. I started very very basic literally. I ate ground beef and drink water for thirty days. I stopped drinking coffee coffee I didn't have any condiments. I didn't eat anything else. Other than ground. Beef and certain portions. I did two to three hours. L. Today Kind of in a cyclical fashion Depending upon my workout load like training volume etcetera etcetera. I wanted to kind of have you know. cycling effect. So I'm sure you guys are familiar with cards. Have Higher Card days lower days. WADA's eating meal. May I could it cycle carbohydrates but I could. I could cycle Total calories and that was my thought process going into near like. Here's a way for me to you. manipulate my metabolism to adjust my calorie intake based upon the amount of output. That I have if I'm training hard and heavy intense day and then the next day taking taking taking the day off kind of adjusting my calorie based upon that attract everything for these thirty days. I wrote down every workout that I did I had some warning kind of movement based exercise out. Doing this is when I really got into the outside walking. You guys follow me on Instagram. you know that I'm a big fan of just walking walking outside getting some sun exposures by navy breathing instant. Fresh Air Just disconnecting with the world. Outside of US you know So so that's still a big part of it. I find it really started last last January so I started because I knew I needed to make a massive physical transformation and I was going to commit to doing just thirty days now if you go to my youtube actually hit a full one-month review or one month's review on this talk about All the benefits. But I just WANNA share with you guys real quickly kind of some. Some of the statistical changes that took place. So like I said I was. I was aiming aiming for a rapid physical transformation so I started at two hundred fifty pounds. I ended thirty days later at trend. Thirty four pounds. So that's twenty. One pounds lost lost over the course of just thirty days I started at over eighteen. Almost nineteen percent body fat I ended it at just just right at about ten Ten point nine six. I believe that the actual number So that's roughly an eight and a half percent Drop op embodied percentage huge. I mean almost fifty percent Drop and just a short month now. Here's the really incredible amazing park at least to me is my lean body. Mass started at two. Oh eight hundred and it stayed at two away. If you don't know what lean body mass sits So you have your your actual total weight. which for me was stupid for and then two or two thirty five to thirty four? My my lean massive amounts of muscle cheering on my body. My lean muscle mass. That number didn't change and actually took place is within the first few weeks. That number are went up So actually gained muscle in the first few weeks And then as I really got into the harder harder cut and increased some conditioning and cardio work I did lose just a tad bit but in the in the big picture sneak in a thirty day kind of process and did not lose any any muscle at all numbers eight exactly the same shrink now. That's just from the statistical kind of physical transformation side. I what I started to notice almost immediately and remember. I stopped drinking coffee for these thirty days so I was probably expecting expecting to go in like with a decrease in energy like I didn't have that extra boost in the morning within the first week men everything started open up just Dra- dramatically change in my life. I notice more mental clarity. I noticed a greater level of slow kissed yes. I noticed higher levels of energy over the course of months I really started to experience some even more amazing benefits benefits I was somebody that for pretty much my entire life have supper with and dealt with sleep apnea to the point that I'd had people I have to wake me up in the middle of night because they're afraid that like I was going to die. I was breeding which not reading like. I don't know if you've got some ever dealt with either known anybody that has severe sleep apnea and snoring. But that was me like I said I'm still to this day. Large human being but I was even larger for for a long period of time But now one of the one of the most amazing things is like that's all gone cheered my sleep apnea and what I'm experiencing is like. He's incredible like sleep cycles. Like I never was somebody that could sleep right our straight through the night. I would wake up multiple times. Have choose a restaurant. I'd always wake up foggy which I always needs to rely on the coffee now. I know you know when I put my head down on a pillow at night on the secret in minutes. I sleep in so many times a few minutes before the alarm clock goes off spring out of bed. Bright eyed ready to go to take on the day like we all should should be you. Were were sleeping to rest. Recover in set the tone for the next day. So you're relying on the crutch of copies kick start your morning You May WanNa look at what you're doing precisely but yet that's been a a benefit that I didn't expect was all this incredible Sleep benefits So yeah that was kind of you know the the reason why I got into it and then really my one months back so recap again from the physical transformation sided. That's all you're worried about in focused on in just thirty days I lost twenty one pounds And roughly nine percent body fat without losing any muscle at adult searches thinkin everything. I'm trying as not working will. Here's an option. Here's something that's proven to work. Now now I want to get into what happened next because you guys have listened to episode one or if you know the mission behind his podcast. It's you'll from my license. Bureau Newell's from me overcoming Two decades plus of addictions addictions to alcohol alcohol drugs sex pornography etcetera etcetera. Um In as shared on the initial podcast on February fourteenth and taste of last year was when I was able to really break free from life. Sign of Addiction. Now I know this podcast is about the corner Diet. But the're there is an important part on why talking about this right now Because what's so much of the latest research is coming out and showing is the connection between between your gut health microbiome and your brain so what we have to think about. A lot of people are are actually referring to the GUT microbiome Abiam as your body's second brain. It plays such a vital role and your health and your focus and your and your mental health. You know like if you if your your digestion in your your gut. Health is off point bikes. You're just not gonNA steal it inside your stomach and inside your gut but it's going to affect your grammatiko clarity is GonNa Affect your focus going to affect your thinking everything about your mind And when is happening is when you're falling a lot of these traditional final western diets heavy sugar-based or even heavy carbohydrate based when ends up happening is this really been starts to affect your gut health which which has a negative effect on your hormone levels were sent has a negative effect on your neurotransmitters. So you neuro. Transmitters are chemicals inside of your brain and they control things like Serotonin baritone in dopamine dopamine with something. I talked a lot about in episode eighteen addicts We all rely on opening opening his actress deal good sensation and when we don't get enough dopamine just a regular you know life experiences and we seek other substances or other avenues avenues. A pleasure so we talked about that and kind of why we wanted to plan our life out have little Adam achievement on a daily basis. Because you have these little spurts dopamine and well. If you're not in a healthy gut microbiome state is not in a healthy state. Gut House you're going to have negative effects on your neural transmitters and then as a result negatively impact your serotonin dopamine so I did really understand the connection between the Corner Corner Diet and ending addiction right away. It took me a few months but then when I had a conversation with Matthew crews Which I believe Lee was episode? Eleven or twelve And he shared his experience Overcome Alcohol and addiction through the Corner Diet. Things started to click quick for me. So part of a lot of groups out there On facebook World Carnivore tribe some other groups where people are constantly sharing their testimonies Assoumani stories. And it's truly incredible. You hear stories of people ending lifetime. Battles with depression with anxiety hangs Zaidi with fear Odyssey. Some of the other disease that we talked about Your autoimmune diseases rheumatoid arthritis psoriasis other you know Oh skin conditions that are a result of an unhealthy gut but the connection. Here I'm trying to make. Is there something within your life That is an external hole force. That is controlling you. That feels like it. Has You buy a strongholds. Call a porn addiction call. It's Social Media Addiction Call like Netflix addiction etc are realizing that you're seeking these things for a release of dopamine but if if you could get to the point where you got your gut in check you've got your health From a microbiome standpoint and check you rebalance your hormones you reset your neurotransmitters. So now. The act of getting dopamine started his and getting hits of Serotonin occur as as just regular acts of life. There apart of everything. You're currently doing So I'm not sure if what I'm saying is making sense. This is one of the ideas. I'm trying to work out but I do truly believe that there's connection between being able to have control of your nutrition and your Diet And if that needs you have to eliminate everything that gives you. You WanNa say pleasure from food because Trieste pleasurable to eat a steak refundable take some of these amazing needs you to eat But what I'm saying here is the ad one of these actual. You just can't feel like you have control over will look at something within your life that you can't take control over in start to get some wins it starts it gets up there So this is where I sneaked that navy a thirty thirty sixty ninety day Run through the carnival. Diet is going to help you get some clarity on other factors outside of your life that may possibly decontrolling. You kinda take you into the next thing I want to talk about is when I started to introduce prolonged fasting so this was probably around the time a mid to late April So when I first got into the carnival died. I was doing intermittent fasting. I was eating one or two meals a day sauce fasting for somewhere between in eighteen to twenty three hours every single day. It just makes this night is passing or intermittent fasting simple. You know when you when you're consuming these heavy stat stat diets Considering these heavy meat based diets you're so tidy levels are just incredible like you eat a meal and you feel not spoil that you feel satisfied for hours on end in. Its No because you're not getting any spikes insulin join. You're not getting any spikes in blood. Sugar Nakanishi Spikes in energy throughout the day. So when I first started out I was doing the intermittent fasting thing was. I'm sure a lot of you may be out there. Have I try this before. But around niche late April I started to implement an experiment with some prolonged fasting. Here talking you know forty hours up. uh-huh seventy seventy two hours with along fast That I got that I that I went through last year. This was when I began to really notice a lot of the spiritual benefits From being on his diet I talked about this on my podcast episode with Danny and more euboea a statue of Stanley. PODCAST More at asking questions because her and I had conversation offline about some spear spiritual benefits of Conover Diet and fasting but when I was able to withhold from consumption. Listen to the words I'm saying when I was able to withhold from consumption for a prolonged period of time that's when I really get connected spirits and you begin to feel connected To everything that was around me to who I was to who I was ultimately created to be so so much insight started to make its way into my life as if this is what on. I'm here for It was just some amazing experiences in I Like I said I've gone through forty hours. Forty eight hours seventy two hours With without food and many of Tian's it's like the the level of clarity from a mindset standpoint that I get you in those days Story remarkable The things that I've ever combat candidate three business seminar while on a seventy two hour fast people thought I was absolutely not. How are you GONNA be able to pay attention but the things I took away from that things that I set worth art in my life and the things that are moving forward because of being able to get clear on who? I was what I was created to do and into work that I'm doing now It all ties back to some this prolonged fasting so Once again I think it comes down to if you got something Sean. Holding you're like I guess something that is taking control you have to take back control of your consumption and I don't think that there's any better way for person to experience what that yields like Then by going through a prolonged fast out assuming we know we need Water Air and food to live and heat You know you can't go more than a few minutes without without air. You can't grow more than you know dare to water but you can go for a really a long time without food So if and especially if you are somebody that's like I can't do. This died because I can't bill without my starbucks starbucks coffee or I can't do this because I can't go without you know my cookies at night. I can't do this because I couldn't go without insert. Whatever food would you feel? You can't go without the fact of the matter is that's just the lead inside of your mind you can go without food And what you'll gain by actually pushing yourself through the process of these prolong staff will make you a stronger. More complete more whole person person on the other side. Because you you you may find out what you truly are. Metzler truly are created for what you truly are capable for. So it's kind of the next thing was that prolonged fasting. Now I talked about and month by month one redo recap that actually gains a little bit of muscle. I think I'd put you pounds. Two pounds of Mass on in the first few weeks. And then it Kinda stabilized night and I stayed consistent for the first thirty days But what do to some really big life. She has to do to actually suffering a pretty large injury in the month of February I don't WANNA decided to. I don't WanNa say it was forced to but I did end up taking roughly about five months off of training over the over this summer. Dumber talked about this on The episode Mitch Miller just the first time in pretty much my life that had gone that length of time without training any return maybe in the gym once or twice a week not even that I mean weeks even separate and Jim still doing a lot of my outdoor walking and other types of physical activity but from a weight training resisting perspective I went completely dry for for about five or so months now. In this case I did lose. Lose a significant amount of muscle actually got down to I believe true or nine was probably my lightest so from where I started in January to kind kind of that point which has some time in. May I believe I'd lost almost almost fifty pounds In in quite a bit of that was was muscle. When I'm completely okay with that because I did it need to be carrying amount of muscle that had because it's not serving me in my life at this point But not training eating once a day ending only meets. It didn't affect me somebody emotional standpoint. It didn't affect me like a lot of people were saying like. Here's this guy that was that was so driven by being lars being char- you know being huge being quote on Alpha Messianic Muscle like I you know like I I Created back in two thousand seventeen which is still my number one flagship program in if you're looking to build muscle make sure to check outs. But it didn't affect me from an emotional standpoint actually began to once again reconnect with who I was what I was created for So that was kind of just a little sidebar piece that I did take a lot of time off and training And then after I had the conversation with Danny Vega on episode. They building muscle on carnival diet and he shared some incredible knowledge in terms of how to train on a carnival diet how to utilize is maximum Maximum output how'd you structure workouts base upon the lack of Lijun in your muscles so how you should structure super sets. That's how to how to be really efficient in your training How to avoid burnout? You know don't have carbs and sugar fewer your training you need to take somewhat of a different approach but it's still as you know attainable to build muscle while on the corner over Diet so when I got back into the gym which was a round late September early October I went in using many of the principles that Danny Dan I discussed and it's been incredible. I'm I'm getting stronger every week. I'm getting bigger every week on putting more muscle on I. I'm not training As if I'm going to return to bodybuilding because that's not something that's on my mind right now But if I ever do decide I may look at actually using this carnivore diet from contest Pratt because the the energy the fat loss. The the fuel that I've seen just in this one year has me as a believer that this may be one of the best diets absolutely shred. It's I'd have to talk with Danny and probably are- actually hire him to help me. Coach her telcos need just to have that kind of outside perspective But guys like joining muscle in the corner over diet without carbs. One hundred percent is a achievable Thing I've done it a proven it danes proven it gains got programs out there. I've worked with some guys etcetera etcetera so that round kind of bat right now. I'm back in the gym training. Know four or five times. A week shrank base hypertrophy style workout so Linda squeezing contracting trying to stimulate the muscle in its most short position But also because I have some catch up work that I need to do from strength side of things. I'm incorporating some some more strength based components to my workout so I believe that this is probably the best approach for somebody that's honest diet strength based style approach But obviously obviously you can't neglect the principles. A muscle building I've talked a lot about this album. Dislike castings for today at least But understanding that execution is King King understanding how your body's functions understanding that exercise are not all created equal. Need to find the one that works civically for you. If you have questions about this how to play your trainy any just hit me up on instagram or send me an email frank. Rich fitness dot com frank. Rich Dot fitness said you know dot com We talk about putting a customized program together. So you Seth Rahmat in terms of training back focus on building muscle back okasan getting stronger Just building you know Cacique has better than what I have right. Now I'm not chasing A bodybuilding look anymore. I want a healthy injury. Free Molin hold. I'll movement which gives me in to kind of this last bit. I don't WanNa talk about is some endurance So I am training for a half marathon. I don't think I shared with you guys sipping on his podcast. I've had some conversations with people that I know are listening here today In the process of training for half marathon which is so outside side of anything that I've ever done in my life And what I'm noticing is like the training from the endurance standpoint on this diet is is amazing my recovery much better my ability to actually push myself and not get some. Ta Not yet muscle fatigue. You know an hour into a workout is incredible edible So if you're in your you know you're somebody that's kind of training for Endurance Sports. Let's make up and let's talk about no plying. Some of these these simple principles goes to your life to your diet So that's where I'm at right now. You know training a little bit to build muscle but really focused on Pushing pushing myself from an endurance standpoint running thirteen point one miles is probably collectively war. I ran my entire adult life and I'm trying to do it all all in one shot so I'll keep you posted on the training and let you know of of how the race goes in itself. It's coming up in late late February. So that's it guys. That's that's kind of my one year recap and review. Now who'd I think the Carnival Diet can't be beneficial for. Obviously we talked about the physical transformation. So if you're somebody out there and you're trying to lose fat but what you're doing is not working. Here's a diet. That is so simple bat. Nobody can mess it up. You don't you. You need to pay attention to calories and a little bit and make sure that you're hitting certain targets but you don't have to worry worry about like if I eat this cookie is gonNA is gonNA affect my macro. And how do I need to just say you're not living by a calculator or spreadsheet adjusting everything you have to worry about You know measuring your rice. Nick didn't go over or I can't combine protein or cards and fast miss meal. Because you know my trainer told me that it's GonNa it's is GonNa Affect the way that my body digested So if you're really looking for a simple process proven but it's not GonNa Change your body from the outside really wants benefits from a health term long term benefits mental clarity focus energy The ability to control things that are outside or feel like you're outside of control right now guys. This diet may be the best you Obviously you know we talked about the JATO immune and the health disease Being just if you want to hear more about this guy jumped launch facebook. Join that World Carnival tribe you're GonNa hear thousands of successful successful testimonies If you WANNA hear a real life story of my dad I went on Mike. Gordon's PODCAST The Fat Guy Forum where talked about my dad who's in his mid sixty s has been a smoker had. been a drinker has been unhappy for a really long time. Time was over three hundred pounds and February when we started and he's lost eighty pounds. He went from not being able to walk outside for ten minutes now riding his bike jogging for hours. On End Swimming I now got him lifting weights guy. That's that's that's as close to home as Vista possibly beat for me. That is my dad in the Corner Diet has given him his life back mean that the corner Diet has Given my dad his life bats. So that's from the health kind of changing everything in your life around perspective. You know we talked about the muscle-building approach If you've got questions about that hit me up we're talking about the endurance training approach And really guys if there's somebody bats crashes midway through the day you know you seem to when you sit down at work you get your day started at nine. Am Your ramped up. Because you're her no three cups of coffee and you're grinding away. But then by the time you're done with that afternoon lunch you know you either need another cup of coffee to restart your day or you just end up crashing and you feel like you can't get anything accomplished I was at playing at at during the summer where I was working. Fourteen sixteen eighteen hours hours a day for a very long time. Brilliant top rebel peak performance for the entire stress. And I don't recommend anybody works Those linked of ours I There was a lot going on. I was out a part of and I was a part of building in that came at an incredible blessing But I don't think I would have been able to you sustain that level of workload Had I not been on this truly truly believe that and I hope you guys Here that in my voice here today day So once again who I think I think there's a place in it for everybody. I think there's a place for this diet and in everybody's life and like I said being a podcast the reason why you come into it or the reason why you get started is going to be uniquely different for all of us because we are uniquely different different But I think that there if you really sat back and evaluated where you are and really thought about this based upon Hokey Oakley based upon the things that I talked about here today and sharing my life or sharing my one year review recap experiences with this that there may be something that you could find relatable bowl and connect you and say you know what frank really is smart He does make a lot of sense. Maybe see there is something that I can get out of this My goal is not to convert the entire world to eating only meats. My goal is to provide provides you with real life value real life tips tactics and strategies to make your life better so that you can live the life that you were created for and you can create your own super human life. Cer- guys that's my recap destler review. Your question about this. Make sure to hit me up on INSTAGRAM OR G. Like I said the beginning you have not done so yet. Make sure to subscribe to this podcast. And there's a five star rating and review but show credit grateful and blessed. All of you. That are out here. I'll talk to you guys next time.

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Dave Rubin on Thinking for Yourself in this Age of Unreason

Dose of Leadership

46:13 min | 2 months ago

Dave Rubin on Thinking for Yourself in this Age of Unreason

"Welcome to another episode of the dose of Leadership Podcast the show that brings you inspiring and educational interviews with today's most relevant and motivating leaders. Each episode is dedicated to highlight reel, life, leadership and influence experts who dedicate their lives to the pursuit of the Truth Common Sense and courageous leadership, and now here's your host Richard Ryerson. Hey welcome dose of leadership so happy you tuning in excited for today's episode Dave Rubin on the show so honored. He came on talk, show, host, comedian, TV personality author. He's the host of the Rubin report which I highly recommend. To talk show about big ideas and free speech, it's known for its politically incorrect, an open approach to discussing complex issues in current events. I think he's one of the best ones out there. That is ready, willing and able to tackle. Opposing ideas in you know. Bring people on. Don't agree with him. And just have this open honest discussion, and that's an and I dig that and it's something that I would. Certainly as you heard me talk about in a couple of episodes ago. Feel a drawn tour Philip opole towards. To do on this show as well. That show Ruben report has garnered a huge fan base from across the world and again it's about because of these honest conversations, about important topics in a thoughtful in candid manner, and has be honest. You just don't really see that much of anywhere. And hopefully we can pivot dose of leadership in that direction as well. His show is a top political youtube channel. Channel and leading political podcast on itunes in addition to that room import I said he was a stand up comedian. That's where he started, and he still performs around the country, highlighting kind of weirdness are new polarized political landscape in he recently company Dr Jordan Peterson, which I'm a huge fan of as well on an international speaking tour and he's got A. I read it in one sitting. I highly recommend this. Don't burn this book. It was released in April of this year. And it's a book that that redefines what a classical liberal is. I think a lot of times, and and he has. He considered the classical liberal, but you wouldn't know it. Talk the big takeaways from this just an honest open conversation about where we are in the state of this world. I think it's important to us as leaders to try to understand. How to deal effectively communicate effectively. With the challenges that we're facing in fact, one of the questions, a lot of this stems from the question that I received from a listener and I had honestly have trouble answering and I'm going to answer it in in upcoming Q. and A. Session, but the question was. that I really struggled with was The question is I quote. How can a leader who may or may not have experienced, or who may not have ever experienced discrimination against his or herself? Ensure that his or her own biases do not discriminate against subordinates. I get that touching when it's a tough one. We'll having conversations with guys like Dave Rubin. And addressing that here I'm committed to tackling that. Just take this conversation for what it is an open honest conversation about the state of the world where we're at. And how we as leaders can can navigate through it so I hope you enjoy it and I appreciate you tuning. Quick Plug for my stuff, you could subscribe right and beauty. Show Up. You're finding some value. Tell somebody about this show. That's your call to action. And leave a review on I tunes if you can or your favorite podcast application. It does so much for the word of mouth, and for the building, our them to keep the show front and center, and it continues to be in the top twenty of it business podcast under the management category, and I couldn't be there without your support, and the show will continue to grow in. It's because of you in for that appreciative, and if you need somebody, speak teaching coach about leadership or you looking for on leadership, course go to dose of Leadership Dot Com. And check out all the services there and reach out to me on the contact page or directly at Richard Dose of Leadership Dot Com all right again. Thank you so much for your support and let's get on with his great conversation with Dave Rubin. Host of the report here on the solution. They would've thrilled and honored to have you on the show. Welcome dose of leadership. It's good to be with you. Let's test my leaderships. I gotTa tell you I was telling a little bit in the prerecording that you know when I found you I found Peterson particularly, U2. I've been really frustrated over the last I. Don't know probably five years, but particularly this last year as if everything's gone upside down, I felt kind of And I even like politics much, but I felt politically loss i. feel like I didn't have a home, and so I wanted to thank you for some foremost for the work that you do and great job on your book. I finished it. In one night, so don't run. This book was awesome, so thank you for for the work that you do. Well? Thank you for the kind compliments. You're obviously buttering me up before we get into the the tough stuff, but you know it's. It's an odd thing for me because I don't consider myself. Particularly controversial I don't consider myself someone that courts. Anger or hostility or or even fame in a weird way. I'm just saying what I think. I talked to people that I think are interesting, and then, and then on that journey I've been honest about how I've changed certain beliefs, or how I have refined certain things or how I think differently, or how those all of all of that stuff, how that has just incorporated into my life, and now running several businesses and having employees, and all of those things, and you know through doing all that I think something. Something good has sort of magically appeared, and the fact that you know people say what you just said to me pretty often that you know. I help them maybe I introduce them to Jordan. And then, through Jordan, they were able to fix something in their life or not, even just about Jordan and self help, specifically, maybe their own political evolution, maybe something about belief or lack of belief or philosophy. If I've had anything to do with anyone's ability to. Pilfer a little more happiness or find a little more purpose in the world. That's that's pretty frequent spectacularly well I. think it's because it's rooted in a couple of things. It's rooted in authenticity which I think is lacking in so many. Bastions so many corners of our world, and so I think that's something I. Definitely learned from doing this show and I think any modicum of success. That I've had on this show in from the feedback that I've got from. Is and where I saw the turning point was. I just need to be authentic and transparent. I'm not trying to be an interviewer. I'm not trying to be something that I'm not and I. See that in you, even reading in your book and knowing what about your history and it wasn't that long ago to be quite honest and I love your story where you had the conversation with Larry Elder, and where you had the courage in the Tennessee to stay. You know what I kind of got. beat up here, let's. Play it as it is I. Think even your producer at the time. Whoever it was said Hey, we'll cut that out. Don't worry, and you said No. Let's just leave it in and. That was kind of a turning point for you, wasn't it wasn't that long ago? Which I know? Well I describe it as as my best and worst career moment at the exact same time you know it was my worst for obvious reasons. Right I came to a fight. In this case, it intellectual fight over systemic racism and I wasn't armed with facts so when I said sort of the default setting thing the Idaho will systemic racism exists meaning it's built into the system. There are laws about it about the racist laws in the system, the American system itself I just said it as if. By the fact that I'm saying it must inherently be true. Larry, then just as I say in the book he beat me senseless with facts fact, after fact after fact, and I guess the moment that for a lot of people with special, there is that you can sort of see me. Take the hit. I didn't I didn't attack him. Personally attack him I didn't end the interview any of that stuff I just kind of sat there with it. And then when the interview closed as you said, I went into the control room, and several producers were in there. At the time it was before we were completely independent, and everybody said Dave. Don't worry about it. We're going to cut that. And I really didn't have to think about it I was just like. Is You know what if I'm doing anything worthwhile? If this has any meaning whatsoever, we have to leave it and I. Know I'm not GonNa. Look Great, but we have to leave it and you know the next couple of days as the clips started going around and you know how. How youtubers larryelder destroys capital letters day. Ruben conservative crushes Lib, Taw, or the rest of that stuff well in the initial hit of that I was like Oh man. This stinks like nobody wants to be on the receiving end of that, but what I realized really after maybe three days was that the commentators were suddenly going holy cow Dave Dave sat thing. Excuse me. Dave sat there and took it, and then they started watching change over the next couple of months learning more about it having having those conversations going further with it, you know eventually getting to talk to people like Thomas Old. Who was a mentor of of Larry? Elder's and I think that sort of honest approach is very attractive to people I, it's not rocket science. It's just it's just being who you are being humble in the moment and seeing what happens, and I think realizing that we've lost the art of I think for me. Having the principles that were kind of ingrained in me from the beginning that we're a little more. Traditional I just kind of assumed that. Hey, you know I'll fight to the death to defend. Your beliefs, even though I disagree with them, I just kind of assumed that was still there now I have four daughters and two of them are. Twenty three one's twenty one and I said this couple of podcast ago. It's become really personal for me because I sense lost. In one sense, one of my daughter's almost a strange, essentially strange from us because of. This kind of woke culture. You know what I mean. And and I see. And and that to me was maybe the SPLAT moment I think prior to that I was kind of like. Oh well, it's just that you know that most people see things like I see and when I say saying things like I see I just kind of assume I can sit down and have a conversation with you and degree disagree, and then go have a beer with you later. That is. Very rare seems like these days well that that's what's so incredibly insidious and dangerous about the woke ideology that what you described there agree to disagree. Have a beer with a friend who argue with about some stuff I mean those my best friends to this day. It's funny. Actually. My my two best friends who I describe in the book John and Mary They, John I met when we were four years old I. Literally Remember Meeting Him the first day of kindergarten I, remember being introduced to him, and we've been best buddies forty years and moved to town when we were in third grade, and we are still super close, even though John Lives in Jersey I'm in l., A. Ares in in Dallas, but we don't agree on everything obviously, and for and for roughly forty years whether we were playing sports playing video games now doing it overtaxed. We're arguing about everything all the time all the time and that what a what a beautiful thing that. That is what. That's what being human actually is about because being human, the only way you can map your reality and really figure out what you believe is is to is to map it against somebody. Else's so you you feel and think, and no sir things. Someone else feels and thinks nocera things. Then you get to have that dance now. What happens, is you? Your ideas are so tenuous. That you can't map them against anybody else because they're gonNA. Blow up your world. It's actually on you your the one with the problem. So so when you describe that with your with your daughter I'm really sorry to hear it and I can't tell you how many of those stories I've heard him by the way you read the book I mean I've had plenty of. Of those people that were super, close me, invited to my wedding. Turn on me, Dave, you're racist. You're a big at all of these things and you know you ask them well. What did I say? That was racist and bigot and they bigoted, and they can't even figure it out, but it's just somehow say morpheus thing that they can apply to you and that's why. You know four or five years ago when I started saying you know guys, this culture thing is dangerous I. I was saying identity politics is the most dangerous force in America. That's what I was saying about four years ago and people said now it's just on college campuses. It's a bunch of privileged kids. Blah Blah Blah. They'll get to the real world in the real world. Suck them in, and and you know then they'll. They'll give up that stuff and I just didn't believe that. And now what we've seen is it has leaked into everything, and not only not only every system and every institution, but it is leaked into your home and and. And that you know we're, we're in the process of having kids, so I'm forty four a finally be having my first and one of the things that I. do worry about in the in the future, and I'll be an old timer at that point, but when when my son or daughter comes up to me in college, and says you know suddenly whatever the woke thing is of the day, and it's so counter to everything I've taught them and how how to deal with that so I have great empathy for what you're going through and just know there are era, probably millions of people in America, going through some version of what you just described. The more than I've. Self aware and attuned to it a lot of times. I I would even say it was funny that you mentioned that I was kind of revisiting some of your stuff. Last week I was listening to your one of your appearances on rogue. I think it was two thousand eighteen, and it's funny how it's only I. Think it was two years ago. This June I think it was two thousand eighteen junior on. And it's even funny listening to Rogan then just two years ago, and then Rogan now and how Rogan was Kinda, just saying the same thing that you just said about well. You know it's just you know it's a handful of folks. It's just the campuses and you were kind of saying no I. Think it's more insidious than that and he's Kinda. Come around even in two years. It's just it's amazing. How fast in two years changed course twenty twenty. Amplified everything so quickly you know I. Think it's brought to the surface, but my point is is that as I become more self aware in tune in the volumes? Men turned up on it. It is a little shocking. To see how how infectious or how widespread it is, you said in that interview in twenty eighteen that. Of course you're in the middle of your were Peterson at the time. You had this really optimistic tone about there was this awakening? Remember you saying that and you felt real? Of course being with around Peterson, I can imagine it's just gotTa be a tremendous, high and an intellectual. You Know Juggernaut of just your brain infused, so you felt really positive so I'm gonNA. Ask you that same question. Do you think they're still an awakening? I kind of feel like there is. What what you think about that? So so I being on tour with Jordan the the year that we did that, and it was about one hundred something shows, and we were in about twenty countries, and to see these thousands of people every night, who were getting their lives to mending relationships? You know getting better jobs getting off drugs, whatever the thing is I saw so much of it firsthand and shook so many of those people's hands and heard so many stories whether we were in the hotel or the airport or on the street like it was just this endless for a year. In a certain way, it feels like a dream to me like I. Think back on that year. Mike did that really happen. Happen because because he was so incredible, and my life changed so many ways I got the book deal while we were there. Obviously, my profile rose so all the things that I've been able to accomplish. We're so deeply linked to that, so the whole thing to me is like what what an spectacular experience I was able to. As for the awakening part. I do feel it I, really do and I and it, but it's harder to feel right now than it was that because because then I think you know this is before Kobe as he said, this is about two years ago. This is before all this crazy racial stuff. We're dealing with right now at that point. There was I could feel underbelly of the Internet thing and I think in that interview I also referenced right at the beginning bad I was on Rogan. I believe the second time was the day for the election the day before the election right so it was the day before the trump election and I was going. You know everybody's saying. Hillary is GonNa win and I'm like. Yeah, you know. I think it's fifty fifty. It's a coin toss, and the reason that I felt that was because I have been paying attention to what was going on online. If you only had paid attention to CNN. CNN if you would only read the New York Times or paid attention to mainstream. Well, of course, you're GONNA say Hillary is GonNa win in a landslide that's it, but instead of just mocking all of the trump people. What I did was I talked to Mike Serta, which I talked to Scott Adams a couple. Other people that were trump supporters Milo couple of other people that doesn't mean all those people are perfect. It doesn't mean they're almost. Clairvoyant, but I treated them with respect because I thought there's something going on here right so I think because I had had that feeling in two thousand. Sixteen of you know there's something going on beneath the surface in two thousand eighteen when I was saying. Oh, there is this awakening I think again. It was because I've been able to read the temperature of what's happening online rather than what's happening in mainstream and I think now in two thousand twenty, so we've had two, thousand, sixteen, Twenty, eighteen, twenty, twenty, three two. Two year breaks of these things I think what's happening now is online and the real world or online the mainstream they've. It's been online growing mainstream collapsing and I think in many ways. The trump election was of the the online world sort of overtaking the mainstream world, and now it's sort of there in this like dance of creation and destruction constantly, and you know it's like my show on any given night, or or certainly Rogan show on any given day gets way more of us than what's going on CNN. Creepy. Know this is a fact, so the the tables have turned in an odd way. And what I feel is happening right now is the media is telling us? We're all racist. The media's telling us. We sort of have to accept that that identity politics and big government and socialism and Marxism that and and and the the policies of black lives matter that these are all things that are inevitable and I. Don't think that's what the average person thinks I think the average person who is watching this stuff happen. The average American is going. You know this is a little crazy now. Maybe they were tolerating it. You know. Maybe they were kinda putting up with it or they weren't sure what it was. was but when you watch Portland Burn, which as we're talking right now? Portland is on fire when you watch them. PUT A semi-autonomous zone in Seattle when you watch New York. City have the highest murder rates in thirty years. CHICAGO NY nine people were shot in Chicago yesterday and every weekend. It's dozens of other people when you watch. This happened across every progressive city. If you're a person that's thinking well I. If you're going all right, that can't be the answer. Violence and mayhem can't be the answer, and if the progressives who run all of these cities, every single one of these cities, CHICAGO SEATTLE PORTLAND New York La. San Francisco if they won't fix their cities well, if the choices between anarchy and trump I think the average person is going to go listen, trump may be a bit of Pablo Hard I. Don't like what he does on twitter hairs nuts. He's orange, but I will choose that, and that's why what I firmly believe. And why I'm hopeful still is that the future of American politics and I think the future of the West is the center right future and there's evidence of that by the way you know in. In the UK elections just in the last, what eight months Jeremy Corbyn and the left? which is our equivalent of the socialist left? We have here. They got destroyed absolutely destroyed in the Australian election. They voted right in the Israeli election which they've had like ten elections in the last five years or something. Something crazy. They went were right so I think what's happening is most western. Countries are saying there's a really bad set of collectivist Marxist communist ideas, and the future is not is not are right xenophobia. Bigoted Evil Monster. It's a center right sort of populist libertarian view of the world that that's what I firmly believe. I hope I'm right, and you know I suppose we'll find out on November fourth. Yeah, I hope you're right to I guess. One thing I appreciate, appreciate about. You was kind of reeducating me again I. You mentioned a good friend. I got a friend that I've known born. The same day grew up three houses apart. And He's W- what I would call a classical liberal and I didn't. I didn't really understand that. Term until I started following you and you helped me. Re educate me what a classical and I would consider myself a classic Lib I think. On the surface, my kids would call me conservative. But I think that when I look at I'm more like you. I'm almost perfectly line with you and everything and all the topics that you mentioned. Don't burn this book. The Way I've gun control their way of abortion. The way of you systemic racism. All of that aligns perfectly with what you say and I would. You define yourself as a classical liberal I would say. That to now based on what it is, but someone who doesn't. Pay attention you hear the word liberal. Liberalism has been associated with leftism now so just for the sake of my audience for other guys like me. define classical liberalism to me. Yeah, so it's a great question and I've spent as I'm sure you know it's been a lot of my life over the last couple of years trying to clean this up because the word liberalism has been so butchered at this point that I don't know that I can actually save the word liberalism, and you know one of the things that I say often now. Is that defending? My liberal beliefs is becoming a conservative position so for people that are really that are not you know. polly Si- you know wants. A classical liberal, you basically believe in two things you believe in individual rights meaning that anyone that's illegal citizen of the country. In this case, the United States regardless of your sex. Your gender your your. Your national origin as long as you're a citizen, you have the exact same rights as everybody else equal rights under the law individual rights. That's what we have in the United States that's where the constitution setup now. We didn't always practice that properly. Of course because we had slavery, women couldn't vote. Gay People couldn't get married, but the arc of justice has always bent. Bent in the right direction, so you have to believe that, and then really it's about Lazy Fair Economics that you believe that the market and maximum freedom for competition is the best way for human flourishing, and then you know logic and reason and things like that sort of sit underneath all of that which are I don't mean to diminish them. They're important things. But individual rights and getting the government out of the way, but and this because a lot of people will say well, that sounds very. Really the only tangible difference is that it's hard to put what libertarianism is truly in a box because you know once you go down that road, which intellectually I love I love the idea of an cap people in the and the real far libertarians who want to disassemble the state altogether and really see what people could do individually, but I think. I would describe a classical liberal as a realistic libertarian, basically, and then to go one step further when when your friends say. You staus all these leaves. You're basically a conservative. I, don't mind at this point. If someone wants to call me what I would say is I'm a future conservative or or a modern conservative something like that because you know most of the things now the one if you're with me on abortion and I make begrudging pro choice argument in my book. Generally speaking the one that that sort of sets the dividing line between the classical liberals and the Conservatives is abortion. That abortion is like the third rail on for conservatives that being said you know I had. Rudy Giuliani Giuliani on my show a couple of weeks ago. Let's not forget that only what is it about ten years ago? He was the leading candidate at one point two Republican nominee for president and he's pro choice. Okay, this is a New Yorker pro-choice, so there is room on the on the conservative side for some level of debate I'm not trying to convince my conservative friends. To be pro-choice, and I even say that in the book, but I want them to carve out a little room in the conservative side of things, so that people like us are have have a home there and by the way I see them doing that. You know you can even look at the gay rights one. It's like the people that were were. The most vehemently anti-gay. Let's say ten years ago anti anti-gay marriage. Talk About Rick. Santorum Mike Huckabee things. Those are not voices that that really matter in the Republican Party and now I'm not saying those people should be banished or anything else, but what I'm saying is something happened on the right where people did evolve in an interesting open pluralistic way, we should embrace that, and at the same time we're watching the leftist purge people and that just it, and that's what drives me so crazy about the vehement left argument is. To your point, I think that. Whenever anybody makes an argument. Around individual rights it's hard to. To disagree with. And so my point is if you take the gay rights, example gay marriage example. It's hard to. be against somebody that comes. With the Avenue of vein of look I mean you have these rights. Why can't we have the same right when you're talking about whatever marriage in in respect, everything else, it's hard to you. Don't really have a leg to stand on because that goes towards because it's based in principles, right principles that have made the nation great and unique in and that's. That's what makes that's what's so powerful and unique about this country into your point. Mean that's what's so unique about what was lay down in the declaration. The constitution because yeah, we weren't perfect, but it's a nation when we come together and we talk and we're like. Yeah, it's the same thing with slavery right? Hey, you got a document here, that says. All men should be and I. Just want the same that you want, and it's hard to disagree with that. The problem is by the way by the way. It's an aspirational it's. They meaning the declaration of Independence, the Constitution, the these are aspirational documents, so all men are created equal. This is a beautiful. What a beautiful thing to say and founding documents, all men are created equal yet at the same time we have to acknowledge that the very people who wrote that own slaves. Now that is true, that is true. It's an important thing to acknowledge it. Does it mean that the totality? The totality of their work should be undermined. They created this incredible free country that by. By the way, even all of the people who relentlessly rail on how horrible America's and how much they wanNA, destroy it. It'll Hano Mario and the rest of them. They don't leave I. Mean if if America was any of the things that these people reported it sleep, they would leave. Trump's not keeping anybody here. You're welcome to leave. As a matter of fact, still more and more people wanna come, so so the proof is in the pudding actually, and it doesn't mean we're all perfect at all. But this constant quest to destroy the future. In the name of some utopia that you can never get to I, this is the fundamental issue here. I think more than anything else. Is that progressive? Somehow believe that they and they alone can create a perfect future if they and they alone only had the power to do it. That's a very flawed view of what humans can do can accomplish. I believe humans can do incredible mind blowing things, but we can't create a perfect system because we. We are not perfect, so the best I think humans can do is create a set of principles that will that will limit power enough so that you can live, however you wanna live, and that's exactly what we got with the Constitution and the Declaration of independence in the well. That's goes back to my original question about you know. If you think there's an awakening, there is I. Mean I guess I'm asking. How positive are you about it, I? I guess I'm positive in the sense because. If you don't have principals to stand on. It will eventually eat itself, and so a lot of the stuff that we see will eventually destroy itself, and if the principles are there I. Guess what I'm worried about is like how much pain how much can be lost? Unnecessarily in so what can we do as individuals leaders to to stand up to obviously standing by these principles not being afraid standing up a lot of talk about in your book, you know you know. You don't back down. Don't apologize for what you what you believe because it's rooted in principles right and I think that's the key and so I feel optimistic about that. However I'm not trump fan I haven't been. From a leadership perspective I just think he's a disaster. However, he is a stopgap against. Some of this. I mean he's he is what he is. He's the only stop gap that I have or it seems like to stop some of this lunar lunacy however. If he wins. Is What we're talking about here. This awakening that you feel like is still there. Is it easier if he wins or is it easier if Biden wins? Oh. It's ways. Your of trump wins. Way Way Way Way easier so i. let me say this that I. I understand your your feelings about trump I've I I didn't vote for trump I voted for gary, Johnson and I was here in California so I, had the luxury of voting third party without having too much meaning. I've come around trump in a lot of ways partly because of what you just said there look. Do we do personality wise, and all of the stuff that everyone has with trump. That is what it is, but I think you hit the nail on the head. He's the stopgap for this thing you know. I don't know the meaning of Life I. Don't know how everyone ends up in the position. They're in, and it does seem particularly odd that this you know hair plugged orange. Man seems to be seems to be the last. the last line before the barbarians takeover right there at the gate and trump is the guy right now? That is trying to stop them, and let's put it this way. Do you think John? McCain could have stood up to this? You think that Romney could have stood up to the. Great John Casick or any other Mitt Romney all them. None of them could have stood up to it, and and there is a weird. I don't know how it is. It's almost like a story book thing. It took this sort of deeply corrupt. New York City businessmen to fight the deeply corrupt Washington deep state. That sort of where I think we're at and I. Don't think trump is a racist. I don't think he's a homophobic. Doesn't mean I think he's perfect obviously, but what I think can happen, and this is a link to what you said a moment ago. About how much destruction does this all 'cause before? It Burns out because it will burn out what I. Think has to happen here the only way I can see us. Getting out of this is trump has to win re-election because if he doesn't win reelection, then then the left will be emboldened. They Will Destroy Biden Biden. Biden is too old and can. Be Eaten Alive by the movement and then congratulations. The Socialists will be here that I see that as the is quite so what you need to happen. If you love America, you want this experiment to continue at any level I. Think you need trump to win and then? Look first off. It will be violent because they look. They're being violent and then they will. They didn't accept the results of the election and they tried impeachment. They will pull out every awful thing. You can possibly imagine, but what I think will happen, is that the people who support trump and the silent majority who love America will start feeling emboldened, and they will start standing up against this nonsense in their own communities in their own families and everything else, and then, and then after a long for years, and it's going to be along for years. Years I think what happens is trump meaning the destroyer, the guy who had to in to break thing because we all knew something was wrong with the machinery, the guy who came and broke it he will then lead to a really rich diverse crop Republicans so they'll be a Dan crenshaw. Nikki Haley and maybe a canvas owens and Tim Scott and who knows else who else comes on the scene, but you will get a truly. I mean diversity of ideas and a diverse ethnicities and sexuality and skin colors, and all those things I think that. Probably if you're looking for the star in the distance, as would say, that's probably the star, but I think we're not there yet. We need trump to get us to ask and I. IT sounds a little fairytale tale I suppose but I the other way if if Biden wins. Man I. This experiment really could be up. Yeah! I. Hate to think of it that way because you get labeled a Kook, you know. Conspiracy theories these days you know. Well but I think from an individual level I. Mean I think to the more that I've. Even over the last four years more that I've seen that in again. The the kind of splat moment was kind of this estrangement from one of my daughters. Meaning I gotta pay attention this, and what can I do individually? Think individually I think surrounding myself more with people like you and Jordan in in doing that and and having difficult conversations with people that I. don't align with politically is very important to me now and and learning how to have difficult conversations. Without kind of getting exasperated and leap. Because it's, it's so hard. Because that whole. Identity politics. mindset, or at least the agenda is so clever and insidious. You know the circular arguments get almost dry. Drive you insane. You don't know how to combat it. Would Never GonNa end to me. It's so critically important that we learn how to have difficult conversations, if not I mean. It's a lost game and I just don't know how many. Of of us, there are I tend to think there's a lot more than not I don't know what are your thoughts? Yeah, that's why. Silent majority thing I think a lot of people have just checked out. They don't want to deal with the mob on social media. They don't want to share their political opinions at the office. Or you know we're all working by zoom now whatever it is and the question is, will they vote I I would say the other sort of silver lining if my prediction is right. If that's what we need to do to get, the the reset will think about it this way. Two Thousand Sixteen. You voted for trump. Is there some if you voted for trump in two thousand sixteen? Is there some way you're going to go? Okay can either vote for trump again or I'm so suddenly attracted to what the left is offering I i. Don't. Right. It's hard to imagine that someone voted for trump. You may not be thrilled with everything he did. You may have lost your job because a Kobe etc, but the idea that somehow what the left is offering is somehow better seems kinda crazy. Now do the reverse of that the reverse of it is. You didn't vote for trump last time you voted. For Hillary, but now you've seen what the left has become in these last three years. You see the new insurgency of the Socialists. I can see a lot of people saying you know what I have. Some version to trump I didn't vote for him. I didn't really like him, but he's trying to keep the wheels on the thing here. He likes America. He likes freedom and capitalism and all that I can see a lot of people break Maui. That's not gonNA. Show up in the polls That's not going to show up at your water cooler conversation, but I think it will show up probably at election day, though the one intangible to that of course. Is that the. As, it usually does. It'll come down to voter turnout, so if the trump people are just depressed and they they all came out. They were excited to vote for trump the first time, but now this time they're just like it's not as exciting well, then then there's a different issue. Well I guess I do see I. Don't know if I can take it to that. For that conclusion at a look at my friend, Mike, that alluded to earlier you know he's. He voted for Obama both times. He voted for Hillary in this last election. But. He's not excited about Biden you know I think he's kind of he and I are just going like. What in the hell are we GONNA do this? You know everybody seems Kinda Lost I. Don't know if. It take him for example. I don't know if he would take the logical conclusion. Invite vote for trump. He probably wouldn't vote vote for some. You know now kind of like you in Kansas Trump's GonNa wind and matter what what you what you vote, so it's kind of a boat on your principles at that point in it really. I think the important. Yeah, look, you should always vote on your principles as best you can. You know it's tough? Even even when we have a third party, it's still tough to vote on your principles. Because as I said I voted for Gary Johnson who is a libertarian candidate I, mean he. He was pretty terrible libertarian. At least as a presidential candidate, he was pretty good as governor of New Mexico. But. Look if you don't vote. The system may be screwy, but it's the best thing we got and the way it's going to be messed with. It's going to be messed with this year because they're trying to do more ballots. It's like in the midst of a pandemic and the race stuff in the riots and You also want to change how we vote. It's all pretty bananas right now yeah. What's next for you? What are you? What are you? What are you excited about? As you look at the rest of the year, look into twenty twenty. One. What what gets you excited? What I'm most excited about at the moment as of this taping is in about eight days I go off the grid derogatory. So this is something I've done. This'll be my fourth year of doing it so one full month. I've I've always done it in. August no phone, no news, no television, no electron. a couple times. If I hop in my car, you know there's GPS already, so that's the one screen that I do. See I've got a pretty terrible sense of direction so I can still get to the supermarket in years past we've taken some vacations done some each time, and that sort of thing just relative to what's going on in the world right now. We're just going to hunker down at. At home, and and have some family visit some friends and stuff like that but giving my brain a chance to get off the news I'm going to miss a major stuff this year. Because the the at the end of August is the Republican. National Convention that's where trump obviously will be nominated again and you know guide. God only knows what else will happen over the course of the month between cove. The riots and everything else. But what I found is when I've done this. It really gives my head a chance to just clear out. calmed down a little bit You know I'll try to exercise a little more I you know I try exercising now, but just exercise eat right reconnect with some friends and family as I said and and not be part of the machine all the time, because when you're not part of the machine all the time when you come back, I always find that I really do have a fresh perspective on things when I come back I, feel really energized and ready to roll in September. So, that's one thing and then we'll be making a pretty major announcement about the show on the day that I get back on September first so excited about that so I've had a bunch of business stuff going on probably. Will announce a new book. Come in pretty soon, we're. We're putting final touches on that and. You know and as far as the world you know. The you know the Chinese proverb. May You live in interesting times? People think of it as as a blessing like. May You live in interesting times? May Your Life be of? Some cool stuff is happening. It's actually a curse. May You live in interesting times? Because if you live in interesting times that means there's some stuff going down. And and you know we definitely live in interesting times. There's no doubt about it and I think for anyone. That's got their head on straight. You know you have a chance to help. Fix It. If you see something wrong in the world. You've got a chance to fix it and I say this all the time, but in every movie whatever movie whatever adventure Sci Fi Superhero movie you love will what is what is spider man do what is Luke Skywalker do? What is neo doing the Matrix? What is Frodo, do they don't they don't? Don't wait around for someone else to fix the problem. They fix the problem. That's why we love these stories, and every one of us has the power to fix something in their lives, and it doesn't mean you're perfect. Add it all the time. And I'm not saying I'm perfect at it all the time, and we all screw up. We all take two steps forward and three steps back and all of that stuff, but especially now in Jordan we talk about this on the tour. You know because of social media. You have no idea. What effect you could have on the world, you might have three followers on twitter and one day come up with a really insightful thought or a funny video or an interesting meme, and you have no idea by the end of the day three million people might know who you are right, and that goes for literally anyone listening to this, so we have a unique power now to to change the world, and if you just sit back and you don't get in the game because you think that's how you're going to be safe while you're the frog and the slowly boiling. Boiling Pot and it does not work out well for the frost. Well said and I can agree with you more. We talk about that a lot here on the show that we have way more influence than we give ourselves credit for and I think a part of the analogy to get that. Surround yourself with other people that challenge you you in in getting off the grid like you said being intentional about that. Some sort of set of personal habits that gets away from the traditional social media mainstream media TV. Things Challenge Yourself. Push yourself out of the comfort zone. You know that's the growth zone. They don't coincide comfort and growth. Don't sit in the same plane in in the more that you can do that. The better can be, and I agree with you hundred percent I think that. You may not. It's easy to look at it. The big picture you know it's kind of like the analogy I. Give a big history buff like that lieutenant. The Beach Normandy sit in the Higgins boat ready to storm the beach. His mind's thinking about his his wife and his kid that he's never seen. He's thinking about how he might die. He's thinking about this. War Isn't going to be over as Hitler's dying, and he's thinking all these things externals that boat. Meanwhile they're seventeen guys in the boat looking at him, and he can influence those seventeen guys at that moment if he chooses to do so despite all the other bullshit. That's going around him right. and. That's what I just heard. You say is that it may seem overwhelming but we can do something, and it starts at the individual level, right. Right and checking out for sixty thirty days. You know that's a that's a step that you were doing right and J.. J. P. said clean your room. Why did that phrase work? Well, the whole idea is you've got all these people that are writing and protesting all over the place. You know it's like I bet you if you go to their rooms. Their rooms are clean during disaster I mean it sounds silly. It's Friday turner though it sounds silly, but it's not trivial. It's not you know you go into my room right now I'm in my house where my garage maroons clean my rooms clean, because if you get up in the morning and you brush your teeth. And you make your bed and you make sure your clothes aren't all over the four. It adds a little order to your world, and these people are in a state of disorder constantly, and it's like man, even if you guys even if I'm wrong about a lot of this and you guys are right about something whatever it is that you're trying to be right about. Let's write about. Do, you think that destroying everything in the aim of your rightness is what's going to build a better future. Of course, it is an all you'RE GONNA! Do you're going to build kangaroo courts you're going to we're in. In the Batman trilogy what was the last one called the dark returns I mean we're in that phase. When Gotham was under lockdown, and what happened, the scarecrows started doing these courts and the people you know. There was mob justice, and they were executing people in the ice. I mean that's where they will lead us and we just have to. We don't have a lot of adults in the room. For all the of the Nice things that I said about why trump exists. He's not the adult in the room. That needs to bring us all together, but but we're not. We're almost not there yet. Yet, but I think for anyone listening to this if you can be a little more of the adult in your life, whatever that means whether it's with your family with your friends, or whatever, but be a little more becoming forced through the storm. Maybe some this will trickle to some other people well, said Now we're coming up on the on the time. You've got another engagement here. I WANNA. Give you the time to get ready for that, but tell people how they can get in touch with you. Learn more about you. Get your book all of that. How can people find more about you? I got a good brandon guy pretty much Ruben reporter anywhere you go, Ruben report DOT COM youtubecom Ruben Report Instagram Ruben report, and and you can get the book. Don't burn this book. Dot was a highly recommend i. read it in one night. Not that it's it's. It's that engaging in that powerful to read a debut one of the good ones. What an honor to have you come on the show? I'd love to have you come back and diving some more in hope we, we can stay in touch. Thanks for coming on the show. Absolutely my pleasure, thanks for reaching out good luck with everything and if I make the Kansas before the apocalypse. Appear to death for sure thanks. Hey thanks so much for tuning into the show I hope you got some value out of this episode. If you did. Please do me a huge favor. Tell somebody about this show. Tell your spouse until your kids. Still your coworkers let them know about. The value of those ship brings to your world. GO TO LEADERSHIP DOT COM. You can learn more about my services if you're looking for me to speak teacher coach about leadership on your Guy I'm known for my ability to transform individuals and organizations teaching the concept of creating cultural decentralization. I do think that is the secret sauce. The facing all the challenges that we face today. Thanks so much for tuning in to show I. Look to the next time we're together and into the meantime vacant agreeable.

Dr Jordan Peterson Trump America Biden Biden Ruben Dave Rubin Dave Dave Rogan Hillary Larry Elder twitter Kansas Richard Ryerson Mike Gary Johnson CNN John Richard Dose Philip opole
Conversations with John Anderson: 2 years old

John Anderson: Conversations

49:30 min | 5 months ago

Conversations with John Anderson: 2 years old

"It has often been remarked on in this series of conversations with John Anderson. Did we are living through a time of great change and tumult as the world faces up to what is likely to be the most devastating global crisis in a generation? That observation is more true than ever like with so much. We usually take for granted? Our broadcast schedule has had to adjust to account for the new conditions. Were living through. In the meantime we have put together. This highlight show summarizing the series. So far it is now over two years since the former deputy prime minister of Australia launched his video podcast series conversations with John Anderson in that time our videos have been viewed millions of times and we have gained consistently growing subscriber numbers via YouTube podcast and the John Anderson Dot net dot. Edu website if you haven't already please subscribe. It costs nothing. The conversations project is a response to the poor quality of public debate and the lack of viewpoint diversity and much of the mainstream media identity politics and political correctness of stifled debate. Many views are not given a fair hearing. Careful reason and consideration of evidence is lacking. This is not good enough. And so through. Facebook twitter his website and especially through this series of conversations on Youtube. John is seeking to engage with prominent thought leaders from Australia. And around the world even some who've been marginalized by the broader media for failing to toe the line for the launch of conversations in March two thousand eighteen. John was fortunate to sit down with international media phenomenon. An academic. Dr Jordan Peterson in Sydney. This first episode in the series is now being viewed well over one million times. They say I was in a very dark place. I was addicted. I was I was drinking too much I had fragmented relationship with my fiance and I wasn't getting married Things weren't going very well with my family. My relationship with my father was damaged. I didn't have any aim. I was wasting my time some variant of some combination of those and they said well. I've been watching your lectures. I've decided to establish a purpose. I'm trying to tell the truth and things are way better and I've and so. Let's say I've done maybe eight or nine. Large-scale public talks in the last two months. So That's probably twenty thousand people and about half of them third to half of the mistake afterwards to talk to me. So that's about seven thousand people who've said that to me and then people stopped me on the street all the time and tell me exactly that story which is just wonderful like you can't imagine how good it is to be able to go to places you've never been and have people start feeling the streets spontaneously and say look. My life is way better than it was. It's like it's so good and so and I've got like thirty five thousand letters from people's last August. It's more than that. I can't keep track of them and it's exactly the same thing like three quarter a quarter them say. Well you've given me the words to say what I already knew was true and thank you for that. I can see that in the audience. It's so interesting because I can lay out a story. People go like this and they're doing that all the time it's like the lights are going on and that's a really while there's almost nothing better than that to watch lights. Go on when you're talking to people it's like that's just absolutely fantastic but to get this response from people my father. I have my father's about eighty eighty eighty three. That's eighty one. He's eighty one and I put him in charge of going through my viewer email. Which is an overwhelming job. But no we've had discussions about this constantly. He's overwhelmed by the fact that so many people are writing and saying the same things like long. I have a purpose that my life actually matters. I finally realized that and I'm putting it into practice. I'm burying up under the heaviest load. I can imagine and it's really helping. It's like God and that's tens of thousands of responses. Now so it's it's you couldn't hope for anything better than that there's zero harmon it right. It's just people putting their lives together they're not mucking about with other people are trying to make broad scale social transformations about which they have no idea trying to make their immediate environment better and it's working great. Well right you say zero Hamad odd size. A former legislator there's an enormous amount of Gouden a country has some titles of the people that make it to the extent that they put together resilient. I've contribute to ask others to help them. The stronger the nation and rapidly. I I mean I think I was thinking the other day. Some journalists asked me why by people are responding so positively to what I'm saying the young men for example. I thought yeah. That's a good question says well. I'm actually on their side pretty happy that I'm really happy that they're not wasting their lives. I'm really sad to see that. People are disenchanted nihilistic and depressed and anxious and aimless and perverse in vengeful and all of those things. It's terrible to see people question whether that's necessary and then to start to rise out of that it's like it's so fun like last night. I was at after my talk so overwhelming usually think about these things but I was. I was after my talk last night. And so all these people line up you know they have their fifteen fifteen seconds. And they're kind tentative. They're excited inattentive women. Come up to talk me. And then they have fifteen seconds of time to tell me something. I'm really listening to them. And they're hesitant about whether or not to share the good news about their life you know and I think it's often because when people share good news of their life people don't necessarily respond positively. No they don't get encouragement and people need so little encouragement is just unbelievable and so they'll come something good on the carpet us so good you know somebody says. I'm getting along better with my father. I haven't seen him for ten years. Now we get along crate and then the power of that. You can't overstate the power of that for individuals to get their life together individuals unbelievably powerful force and every single person who gets their act together. A little bit has the capacity to spread that around. The it's it's a chain reaction and so it's a lovely thing to see John. Howard is Australia's second longest serving prime minister unarguably. Our greatest living statesman John served under him as deputy prime minister six years. Nhra special poll. Would you say you're a better leader for the fact that things went horribly wrong at times and you must have felt it was never going to be the opportunity again to serve at high level. I have no doubt that. All of the setbacks experienced Miami Quipped when on. Gothi now that is shit with all the benefit of Hans. Soy and in the knowledge that I finally did get there and stayed in the role for a long time. I've probably didn't feel S- out time. But there's no doubt that. Adversity hardens people. Is Niger out. That chip Bax test where the people have resilience. I look at the great figures of history. It'll I mean like Churchill. I often sigh of him because he's such an example of this the mind thing in public life he's to get the big things right political figures or indeed anybody in a position of authority who takes over a big role and says Oh. I'm never going to make a mistake is doing idea. We all make a lot of mistakes along the way the important thing is to get the big thing fraud. Churchill was an example of somebody who got the and did the big things that really mad at about along the way. Myeloma stikes citing Britain back onto the Gulf Standard. Lot of criticism of these roles. I we see go over to the strident in relation to the dodd. Nils criticism of you supported with the item. The application cross as he was allies opposed to India's independence. Things like that yet when you think of the crucial moments in the nodding thirty. We got something about the dictator's destroy us. And he was absolutely right on that and go see is been regarded by histories one of the towering figures of the twentieth century. Jonathan Height is one of the most important academics working today formerly engaged supporter of the Democratic Party. In the United States his work into the moral foundations of our political views and is concerned that the fracturing of political debate and especially the lack of balance in the university where progressive views and activism dominate has led to his work in developing tools to help us better understand and appreciate the political and religious opinions of people with whom we may disagree. What I discovered was the basic inside. John Stuart Mill. Which is that. You can't really know your own side of an argument until you know the other side and all of us are so incomplete. And so blinded by our team loyalties that we can't understand the truth unless we engage with people who challenge it and so by the end of the book. I didn't become a conservative but I basically stepped off the team. I just said you know. There's t t to understand what's going on it blinds you. If you're on a team there are good ideas all over. And so I became a sort of a non-partisan moderate Jon Stewart Mills. Quick to that effect is actually a very strong. Isn't it I or less says if you can't if you haven't understood the other perspective no matter how passionately hold your on. That's right. It's actually pretty use. He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that his reasons may be good and it would have been able to disprove them you're beginning to paraphrase But if he does not know what. The other side's reasons are Then he can have no confidence that he has gotten it right himself and even says it's not enough that those ideas should be brought to you by your teacher who does not believe them himself. You must hear them from people who honestly hold them who believe in those ideas and so this is one of the problems that were were having a has at least in America as all institutions purify and those universities are they lean left the regular reasons for that. That's always going to be the case. But as they've gone evermore left and there aren't really conservatives available to back. The teachers students are not able to get a full understanding politics and this damages our our civic life. It prepares the students poorly to go into government service. Eric Metaxas on the abolition of slavery. The earliest abolitionists in the United States of America were all Bible carrying Bible Thumping Evangelical. There's no question about it and so if you want to see where abolition started. It was always evangelical. It's absolutely undeniable. So when people say things like Oh you know. Christians approved of slavery. People may have been technically Christians in that. They weren't Muslims. They weren't atheists. They weren't Jewish so they say they're Christians. Well what Wilberforce and ilk illustrated is that. They're Christians and they're Christians there. Chris who live out their faith who see these things. These injustices and abolish them. Do what they can to abolish them in work against these injustices and then there are people who simply call themselves Christians and go to church that has never Been any different. I mean you can even say the same thing about the the ancient. Israelites are the people of God. And then there are the people of God and and just because you are technically Jewish Just because technically you're part of the The Nation of Israel doesn't make you Moses. You know there were people that bought into these ideas that had a relationship with God and then there were other people who are dragging their feet and even opposing things. So you have the Church of England And then you have. I would say you know establishment figures in the church in the United States who were strongly opposed to abolition but the Bible thumpers the serious Christians whom would call today evangelicals. They were the ones that pushed for. And then eventually it caught on with others. But let's not kid ourselves. That's the provenance of abolition period. End of sentence in this series John Seeks to engage with a wide range of different people with divergent views. He recognizes the importance of dialogue between people with different ideological outlooks. He sat down with his one time. Political adversary former leader of the Labour Party and current governor of Western Australia Kim Beazley and found both plenty of deep insight and much common ground for as Americans the leap Martinez Freedom here. Australians the League Motif is famous and freedom. In the United States have many different aspects to it in many ways they're more family oriented than we are. They more tuned tomorrow to bite than we are loud voice right than we have great religious participation all sorts of different to the Hollywood portraying very different the. Us is not Hollywood and not by any shei-pa full in any shei-pa full but having said that the supply of that with the concept of freedom which means that and because in this society The experience of the average American citizens to struggle with anonymity. There are a lot of it is very hard to get sort of ego-satisfying provinces United States. And and you don't get the about being shrinking violet. So are they've got all these counter elements to the if you like the Divisive character of of The sort of atomised narcissism. That you that you talk about They still is that struggle against anonymity which helps to drive that atomization narcissism here in Australia. We tend to value the collective much more we tend to sink. That the All of us have the right to be re as opposed to the right to rise fitness. More of saints. Hear that part of the job of governor is to sustain levels of equity in the community that have that concept in the United States nominal. Jonathan Oreo on religious freedom. Let me speak of religious stratum in the West. We're speaking about a particular rendering if the idea. It isn't the freedom to go about and wholesome for a Sharia court or someone elstein someone to diss. Because they're not respecting the particular rules of the doctrine. Talking about Western freighter religion. That has been heavily influenced by the Judeo Christian tradition in the second century. I Day Christians were accused of atheism because I wouldn't worship the gods of the stage and they wouldn't worship the gods of the stage impact because I had a scriptural justification for not doing so Christ said Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's and undergo the things that are God's Christianity provides the ultimate defense against totalitarianism. It has a screw defense of the limited stage. Moreover Christianity provides the scriptural basis. For what we now as liberal democratic stage based on the idea of universalism the inherent worse and Deacon shaves a person and the secular model of government that we've come to appreciate all of those based Christian scripture. It's lost on Meister society now because in a straighter as in many other parts of the waste way becoming less and less religious Christianity she Is losing its popular appeal impact because people are no longer reading the word of God out encourage papers rate at evenings? They're isis encourage Dorgan has said rate the King James Bible just for the beautiful language in appreciated as a cultural artifact. Even if you don't have that yes because of the supposed language because it provides a great listen in the English language and we're now getting to a point with such a cultural cringe about Christianity. The people can't even appreciated from an acidic perspective. They don't want to look at how the belief in the divine has inspired the greatest art and music and literature of Western civilization. So when we start to talk about doing away with Christianity and addressing the question of would we be better off without shirt because it's the basis for Liberal. Democracy is the basis of the secular state is the basis for universal morale. Shay that Gods Lord out political systems and it's the basis for that absolutely critical western conception of individual human worse. That is Imago Day. The British journalist Peter Hitchens is a friend of the channel and has been good enough to talk at length with John on three separate occasions. His understanding of history and how it relates to current events is unsurpassed and as such he brings a singular and searing perspective. People are very distrustful of the system politics the institutions of society the Church and a badly fractured as will the fragmenting into groups that very hostile to each other. Has it come to this to this? Because ultimately things have an effect loan after. They've happened when I was just move child. I lived near the Great Support Support Smith and Southampton and would go down to the beach and watched the great ocean liners which still then went back and forth as the Atlantic. And this game you could play. You could watch say the Queen Elizabeth Norris Ship Poss- by about two miles out. And you then waits for the by wave. Sometimes you wait so long. Forgotten was coming and then you turn your back on. Track you in the back. So how'd it would not over? There was a huge distance in time between the event and I think we see now the effect of the collapse of particularly of European unity which I think began Ian and then followed on from the first World War where the Checchi's made the great mistake of supporting war which turned out quite patently. Not to be a Christian actor to be Great Wolf Civilization that had been portrayed as being and so associated themselves with wickedness on such a scale that they could never really recover them or authority and it began to draw away from that point. But of course people continue to act. You don't send get an audible. Click people suddenly stop behaving in the Christian fashion because the churches collapsing the the Cultural Christie? Ask the general understanding of Christian rules. General Knowledge of the Scriptures descended on the mat persisted in the population. Still persists people have sutton age but has pretty much vanished. I was reading the other day that thanks various Films and children's fiction many English children. Now no the Greek myths of the near the Gospels. They should not taught. Gospels is not they don't know the parables which would be a huge influence for some new them. You can't expect this kind of cultural earthquake to happen for town affect the amazing thing is that it's taken so long but the wave has finally struck the beach and people seeing the two great consequences to to write material consequences of Christianity for the societies. In which is being a trust on which almost all Serious choose must be based on the rule of A. How can anyone accept that little should be more should be more authoritative than temporal Unless they believe that it has some sort of divine origin and once that goes it goes to these things a departing from us while we continue to live in highly advanced Physically technically advanced as well. Civilizations Weather's advances are also be based on trust the law in the end as they depart the society's we'll see to protest done. I think it is an electoral process. Which we're lucky to be seeing the beginning of Gabbing Ashington on the sexual revolution first week. Feminism bringing in the new as a vanguard as Utopian equality and it had some good effects and bad effects and then we have gay marriage and this is very recent. We're not quite sure we can judge the effects yet so people like me. You're saying actually guys this. Is this bill very thin? Ice and the outcomes. We are not looking promising and the rest of society says could. Let's let's let's give people some slack and see what happens and that. We're doing that. The next the next stage and cultural Marxism develops and transsexualism. So this is this fluid identities gender identity and this looks like freedom but actually gender dysphoric also looks like mental illness. Now how do we tell the difference between freedom and mental illness? William James was very good on this. He was a early professors of of both psychology and philosophy in America and he said just look to the outcomes. The outcomes will tell you whether Jesus said something similar. Stick William James William James said. Let's look to the outcomes now. The outcomes are that that the mental health of our children hasn't been very good in the last thirty or forty years quite serious problem. It's been quite a everywhere in the way absolutely whether it's it's kids smoking skunk which which which causes real problem with with with paranoia or whether it's it's the uncertainty of of sexual freedom and responsibility in the damage to go with it and the ghastly abortion rate seven million eight million in England sixty million in America Vic cost of our new libertarian. Experiments have not been good but suddenly with the rise of transsexualism. We've moved from one point. Zero seven percent of society experiencing discomfort between the biology of the body and the psycho gender geography of the brain to to to to an exponential increase. And actually the one thing you might give an adolescent to cling onto for some kind of mental stability is their gender when everything else is up in the air and now we've taken that that stability away from them and the the explosion of Gender Dis. Fauria is quite extraordinary if our kids didn't have enough mental confusion trouble. This new element in Cultural Marxism is causing dreadful pen. And then you get a number of wouldn't just just wouldn't it be those who would say well that was because it wasn't a lot to talk about it before we suppressed it we've now given people freedom to all the elements of truth in that? Of course there is the have always been a small tiny proportion of people who suffered some kind of aspirational either The biological tiny tiny proportion or mental. Yes WE WE'VE HUMAN BEINGS. We come in in the widest variations. But the more you bring into question. Our frailties our all businesses eccentricities particularly. If you're the the scale the greater uncertainty there is and people didn't manage very well with uncertainty but if you compare the two things I buy side as you quite rightly do than the number of people who who function perfectly adequately even if they were of that end of the spectrum compared to now is enormously different now people are given the freedom to explore. They give him the freedom to be told me about this and their functionality is really very badly flawed. Neil Ferguson another friend of the channel is arguably the world's foremost economic historian although his expertise ranges far wider than that before a live audience in Parliament House in Sydney he spoke with John on a host of different issues from the rise of China to trump's America economic regulation brexit and much more one assesses China's defense spending. Maybe defense is the real word. There's a very rapid growth. A China's offensive capability China is for example building up a missile capability that would pose a profound threat to US aircraft carrier groups in the event of a conflict euro familiar and I didn't need to repeat it with China's construction of military facilities in the South China Sea. But there's a whole bunch of less visible stuff. Going on as China invests in in effect is a new generation of military capability. The drones swarm is going to be an important part of any future conflict and China as a natural edge given its capacity for building drones. So number one. There's no question that China's spending a lot on its military and to call it. Defense is to stretch the meaning of that term. Secondly one characteristic feature of America I as a policy is the President. Trump has not exactly been reassuring to traditional. Us allies in the align system was a great source of concern for both general master his former national security adviser. General Mattis is former defense secretary. They've gone An I think one has to worry a little bit about how firm the resolve the United States would be towards any of its allies in the face of a conflict. So when you put those two things together. Australia can hardly be complacent about security. Look let's just do some basic history here history's mostly the history of 'em pause. Not Actually the history of nation states and it's most of the history of conflict not the history of peace. You get peaceful periods. No question we've been in a relatively peaceful time Since the end of the Cold War but to assume that this will continue indefinitely would be to ignore the lessons of history another obese lesson of history which is being true throughout the centuries. Is that if you want. Peace prepare for war and vice versa. If you want war act like it'll never come. Allow your defense capability to atrophy. For an enormous island that is thinly populated in relative terms compared with Asia that has a Voss store of natural resources for such an island to be ill defended seems like most spectacular historical fully in particular when it is in relative close proximity to a one party state with oviously imperial ambitions. It's quite a long way away from its principal ally. The China's imperial ambitions is obvious the more Chinese leaders in this speech beaches say China. Never does conquest the war. I'm like seriously you really GonNa make that argument. Chicken Pie was taking chunks in Russia just over a century ago. So let's get really a this is not a good situation. It was okay during the American era when the Chinese were like okay. It's no problem. We'll just sell you stuff cheaply and underpay all workers and lend you a cool. We'll buy trillion stuff not a problem market price. I much to want. That was all fine but anybody who thought that that was gonNA lost indefinitely was dreaming because the whole point of America was a temporary illusory relationship and that at some point China wouldn't need it anymore and the charges account of getting to the point where they don't need us anymore on the bets that we placed from the Clinton era that they would liberalize all the Internet would somehow turn them into democracy. All that's gone China's actually going in the opposite direction. Politically Xi Jinping has increased. The central control of the policy is reimposing trial. Orthodoxy is cutting out such free speech as it developed in China's Public Square. I mean how many more flashing red lights do you need. So I think this is kind of getting to the point of urgent. I'm what I see in Australian. Politics is a debate the if it was going on in a regional council in Scotland would seem parochial. Parochialism is stunning true. A considerable efforts being made by the intelligence and national security community in this country to wake people up to the potential threat. The Australia faces by is in any way prepared from a naval point of view for Chinese. Active aggression no way. So I think this is a moment of truth. Actually I said yesterday that we were entering a new Cold War we should stop pretending otherwise. That's right on this cold. War will be very different from the last cold. War will be fought in different ways. It will be an arms race for everything from artificial intelligence to put computing more than for nuclear or rockets to the moon. And the battlefields will be different. When you consider what China's belt and road initiative has become. It is nothing less than veld politics than a global policy. It's fall extended beyond the original concept that was essentially a central Asian Indian Ocean confidence become global and the search for commodities is not a trivial part of what is involved and pause some level acquiring commodities below-market prices. That's kind of an PAS or at least not trusting to the market to deliver you the commodity so it's better than in the mind control the supply chain and not be at the mercy of the market all the most of a Navy but China currently is the US Navy. We need to clearly understand the historical logic of China's expansion to have security China account will be dependent on imported commodities and market prices. When you think about what implies for Australia it's really quite scary because strode is prize. Australia's a hugely attractive place from Chinese vantage point and not just a vacation destination or replace to study in English and I'm stunned by the lack of awareness of the strategic vulnerability of Australia. When everything should be screaming to you prepare. Helen pluck rose came to prominence for her part in the so called. Grievance Studies affair where she into colleagues sought to expose corruption in the academic field dubbed Grievance Studies by submitting bogus papers to academic journals remarkably some of them were actually published one of your papers tattered insights and I'm quoting from the newspaper here into Mile Ripe Culture based on the inspection of ten thousand dog genitals. I mean really what was what did a claim to show. And who published it that was Gender Place and culture that say in a feminist geography journal. So we're not worried about geography. It's not one of the high up geography generals but when you get a kind of identity study attached to any other discipline like feminist geography feminists social work. Then that is when you see some real sort of madness appear so yet our DACA paper as we call it. It argued that by examined by looking dogs in a dog park and instance of unwanted humping among them and how humans reacted to that we confidently state that send both dog parks nightclubs where rape condoning spaces and that we should train men like dogs and we submitted a first draft of of this and it was received positively one of the review is suggested it could be benefitted by the addition of black feminist criminology. So we did that and it really is an absolutely absurd is also very dark element there because the reason it went down well was because we were claiming a kind of implicit bias. If you've seen the referenced implicit bias is we can't see Racism and sexism so easily anymore because it's been criminalized and it's also frowned upon. But it's still a believed to be there so a lot of scholarship looks into ways to dig it out and make it visible so by making these claims about how people responded to their dogs. We were feeding into that. And by making men the villains of the piece we were also flattering. The political bias. Is Melanie Phillips? On brexit over the brexit fight is a war to the death over these two views of the wool. One view of the world is as you suggest Half the population a little bit more than half who voted for Brexit. While they're voting for walls to have a a a situation in which they could democratically ruled themselves as a nation bound together by a common culture which found expression in laws. They pass to the national parliament. Which could not be overturned was would not be subject to any foreign interference. That's what a nation is independent sovereign and it comes to it all boils down to the fact that they appreciate love want to cherish wants to continue on protect and defend this idea of a shed national experience which is bound together. That doesn't mean you can't be different within that bought. It means that there is a common shared project coordination. That's what people wanted and that's is absolute anathema to the progressive ideals All of Universalism in which the very idea of a particular culture based on particular moral precepts is anathema. Because it is particular and therefore excludes according to this dogma. Everybody else so. You can't have a situation which not everybody in the world can immediately share it and consequently must destroy it. And as a result the nation is illegitimate and as a result. Anybody who voted for that. In brexit is themselves illegitimate. They themselves must be racist xenophobic. And so on. And so the new ways think that the people who voted for Brexit are basically troglodyte S- and therefore can be completely ignored. Their view counts for nothing. They say so because they are unheard of people Senate right so we should America. So they're writing. Off is the essence of democracy if the Toronto. That's rising off many of my fellow citizens. Views are so illegitimate by shouldn't my lad. Have they say but you can see from that point of view why they have to stop this because first of all they purported to stand for everything good in the world and that anybody who stood against that view of the world was just not really entitled Apart Society Tool they could be written off the door of the deplorable. But you can do that with a few people you can do with a few hundred people you can do with a few thousand people but fifty two percent of the population. What they're all racist. That old xenophobic. So this call. This company author journalist. Murray is tireless in his determination to expose the Apocrypha Anna rationality of so much of today's political debate. Especially when it comes to the dictates of political correctness and identity politics. Yeah this is this is. There's a pattern in all of this as I say that chapter you. Can you can see the intellectual underpinnings and they come from this idea that if it's a it's a Marxist idea but it's just transferred to the modern era where instead of talking about society in cost structures you talk about minority interest groups structures and you lump people like this. What what is what is the primary aim of his Among other things it is a different interpretation of society which is therefore intended to segregate and pull apart societies as you and I might understand them so that people primary affiliation is not that. I'm an Australian but I'm British but I'm a member of the lgbt community in the greatest Sydney area for instance You can predict with one hundred percent accuracy. The people who encouraged this the people who will grab the latest claim by an interest group and run with it and it is always people always people who in the past had another way of trying to attack US societies had a radical Marxist view of the world for instance. We know this with the green issue. Where and again like like rights issues. I write about in this book. They succeed because they're not onto nothing. You know him. The green movement is onto something with the environment and with our planet but it has this hideous red interior which keeps exposing itself as desiring not not a better relationship between ourselves and our environment but for instance the end of capitalism. And it's the same with this. I expose in each of the chapters that the people who make repeatedly and desperately plane that they believe for instance that being a woman is should be merely the first step in a wider mission to bring down capitalists now. I don't think most women were on board with that. Most we'll be rather surprised to be utilized in this fashion but that is very clearly and explicitly and I quote the the various scholars and writers who've been pushing US for years. This is explicitly the aim. And it's why as I say you can always predict exactly who is going to latch onto the latest claim when when for instance the big bearded man with male Genitalia. Wins the women's weightlifting competition. You can predict with one hundred percent accuracy. Who is going to say yeah? What's the problem with that? And the people who are going to say. I'm not short climb. The big weightlifter should be winning the women's category. You can predicted and the people who say. Why have you got a problem with that? Bigot always the same people who believed in the past that our society's needed to be pulled apart in another fashion and now they'd like to do it in this fashion Claire. Liman is the founding editor of Australia's groundbreaking magazine to quote their mission. Statement quote is a platform for free thought. We respect ideas even dangerous ones. We also believe that free expression and the free exchange of ideas help human societies flourish and Progress. Coletta aims to provide a platform for this exchange. I mean the the left right divide can be useful but it's often too simplistic for we're talking about today. And I often find that the access of authority versus liberty sometimes more useful in. I think what we're seeing today with the left is he thinking of I. I think about my parents and back. When they were young in the nineteen sixties and seventies there was a lot of focus on liberty. If among for the left you know liberty from social conservativism and so on and so forth and free speech was a huge pot of what it meant to be a leftist family values by the way yes family values. Feast defenders. Shaw Mom Dad and the kids. Yeah well the The that's part of defending the working workers is to defend working families. But I think the shift what we've seen is a shift towards more authoritarian leftism rather than Li liberal leftism. And sorry I find that Liberal left us a really easy to get along with and to talk to debate with and they're happy to have debates over went any of these topics or any topic at all but it's the Authoritarians who are not are open to debate and unfortunately the kind of progressive that we're seeing in younger people. Today in that is being taught within universities is awesome authoritarian strain and and that is Unearthing and one thing that concerns me is how it gets reinforced by social media and social meteors. This great engine for confirmation bias. So it's really easy to find people who agree with you. A hundred percent on every single issue So it's I think it's really easy for young people to get into these little echo chambers. Where they're reinforcing each other. And then once they come across someone who they disagree with in the real world not equipped to be able to handle that disagreement so they go straight for the AD hominem straight for the appeal to emotion and It's really not constructive situation. Thank you to our audience for your support. If you haven't already done. So pleased. Like comment share with others and subscribe doing so means we can reach more people with this vital content along with the rest of society. We are adapting to the lockdown situation. We find ourselves in under these conditions is able to meet with his guests face to face so we have launched a new series of interviews. John Anderson Direct so John can continue share in the views of important commentators. Even more important at a time like this. Please enjoy because I should stress you but I make no claims to expertise in what I have done. Is I've started from the basic principle Islamist old journalistic inquiry and indeed inquiry cloudy and milk in the modern world. Which is the great statement. Biotech Fund is not never leave. Anything until it's been officially denied stopped from a position that you don't know And the the authorities necessarily know either and ask questions. What I have found is that a number of prominent highly qualified people and I will name them in those cases here Have Serious doubts about what we're doing. The best of them is professor. John Your need. It's of Stanford University in California. Who believe that the supposed talented rights Nineteen which you've been suggested a completely awesome misunderstood by those in Ford and based on just is not what is well what and south. Secondly of this is by no means the only person that's very prominent and distinguished professor of microbiology. In the University of months when the main seats learning jeopardy professor at Bharati has made two major interventions in the politics of his country. Saying that shut down of the economy is is wrong and disastrous particularly. He argues this disastrous for the very large number of healthy old people in our society. See rely very much on on social contacts on an exercise to sustain that health. And who if this is prolonged will will be severely and permanently damaged and he sees a quite a large number of deaths resulting from this and so trying to put this as some people try to suggest accrued question of life versus money. It isn't the the loss of life from his policies potentially considerable and you see also in the experts from Sweden continuing to insist that they govern behaves like a normal go unto takes a moderate proportion of action run precipitous in extreme action they also dot very considerably extraordinary social economic and political experiment being engaged on by so many major Western countries.

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 Who Dares Say He Believes in God

The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast

1:49:02 hr | 1 year ago

Who Dares Say He Believes in God

"Welcome to season. Two episode fifteen of the Jordan be Peterson podcast. I'm Michaela Peterson Dr Peterson's daughter manager favorite child and heir to the Peterson. Empire believe me, it's an empire mostly filled with ideas. Crazy ideas, interesting, ideas, some that you'll even here in this episode, I'm kidding. I'm not as favorite child. Here's another one Willis trouble than I am. But also, not as cute. Anyway. Back to reality. Healing slow from my mom. We're still stressed beyond belief. I never knew that you could be stressed into feelings that are similar to actual depression. I didn't fly Matori depression, which is hell and I've completely managed with diet. Right. Didn't know that you could actually get stressed into something similar to that. Not as bad, but, like different. Well, I knew you could be stressed. What else PTSD right? But I didn't really know if you know what I mean. So that's a fun conclusion. I've come to recently, situational depression is very real, not as bad as what my food depression was, but. Pleasant unless fortunately working out seems to help a lot. So here's to taking a bad situation in finally growing Budi, right? This week's episode is the first of a series of two I said three last week, but we switched it to about dad's belief in God and belief in God in general, this week's episode is titled who dares say he believes in God is taken from one of dad's twelve rules for life tour talks, which was delivered in Sydney on February twenty six twenty nineteen at the international convention center. Hope you enjoy it when we return dad's lecture from Sydney titled who dare say he believes in God. I'm gonna tell you guys about Birch gold. It's an interesting company that allows you to buy into precious metals to help diversify your savings in two thousand eight the US national debt was ten trillion by the end of twenty eight teen. The debt was over twenty one trillion not ideal buying into precious metals is a great idea as doing the banks all go up in flames. Not that I think they will. But I definitely also don't think they won't is not directly tied to the stock market, and they'll send you a free information kit. If you text Jordan to three one three one three one is worthless looking into to see what it's about Birch. Gold group has thousands of satisfied customers countless five star reviews and a plus rating with BBB, contact Birch gold group and get a free information kit on physical precious metals. See if diversifying into golden silver makes sense for you. When I was in grade five I wanted to invest into gold and ask dad divine me some, we didn't have any money so he refused. Also, who's randomly going to buy grade. Five a bunch of gold makes more sense. Now that I think. About it. Now, if he had bought me, some though, it would have been so worth, it the price of gold, basically seems to rise, the information kit. They send you is a comprehensive sixteen page kit that reveals how golden silver can protect your savings, and how you can legally move your IRA or 4._0._1._K out of risky stocks and bonds, and into a precious metals IRA to get your no cost, no obligation kit, techs Jordan to three one three one three one again. Techs Jordan to three one three one three one. I'm going to talk about Harry's. They sell high quality shaving equipment. Did you know that the average guy will spend three thousand hours of his lifetime shaving? So three thousand hours of life is approximately four months. Not sure who came up with the three thousand hours of his lifetime shaving statistic. But there it is. Don't waste four months of your life overpaying for poor performing razors. Harry's has particularly sharp razors. This means less money spent getting those cheap wines, just means you need to purchase more, plus these kind of cool looking these ones ended up being about two dollars per blade. That's pretty low to keep prices low, Harry's cut out the middleman and bought a world class blade factory in Germany, that's been making some of the best razor blades in the world for ninety nine years, which is probably would give them they're pretty fancy. Look there's one hundred percent quality guarantees. So if you don't love your shave let them know in give you a full refund. God, I love America. Everything comes with a refund join the ten million who've tried Harry's. Claim your special offer by going to harrys dot com slash Jordan. Get a trial set that comes with everything you need for close, comfortable shave weighted, ergonomic handle, for easy grip, five blade razor with lubricating strip, enter trimmer. Blade for close shave rich, lathering shave gel, that will leave you smelling great and a travel blade cover to keep your razor, dry and easy on the go listeners of the Jordan. Be Peterson podcast can redeem their trial sat at harrys dot com slash Jordan. And if you prefer to shop in store, Harry's razors are also available at WalMart and target. Welcome. My father, Dr Jordan Peterson. Thank you very much. It's a great pleasure to be here in this massive hall. I can't believe that all of you decided that coming to talk about the topics, we're going to talk about tonight with the top priority in your life. But, but let's see if we can justify that, that might be a good head might be a good aim. See if we could make it worthwhile. So to make your decision correct? So you may know or not that I was on a television show last night. QNA. Currently, you know that several view anyways, I can't say, I enjoyed it really, really. It's funny. Like I think as, as I've got farther along in doing whatever it is that I happen to be doing. I find those events more and more stressful. I don't know exactly what it is. I think it's the proclivity of everything. Everything has to be mangled in some sense into precept format. You know, on the fundamental format really is that everything has to be political, and everything isn't political. So that's not helpful. When you're trying to discuss things that aren't political and I mean, I'm not complaining about it. Well, I suppose I am. It's just surprising to me how how. How much how much takes out of me say compared to doing an event like this, which I really enjoy doing, like I spent a lot of time preparing, and there's a lot of you and I really want it to go well, and all that. But this is this is much less. Dreadful. I guess that's right. And, you know, and then there's the strange. Constraints on formats, you know, people ask very complex questions. And, and then you have a minute to answer. And you know, there's something something downright sinful about answering a really complicated question in a minute, because it sort of suggests that complex questions have answers that take one minute and they don't they have answers. The take God. Sometimes they take decades. Sometimes they take thousands of years. Of course, I can't expect a television show to allow for thousands of years. But, but the format itself works against the kind of thought that's necessary to actually have discussions that are necessary. And so anyways, having said all that it went it Landau. It went all right? I would say there were no nasty surprises, and particularly, and it was a civil discussion, whether it was. A productive discussion or not is a different matter. But it wasn't an unproductive discussion. And so that's something but there was one question that came up, and I thought I would actually start talking about that question tonight, because I've never been happy being asked this question a lot, and I've never been happy with the answer that I've given to it, and I've never really been able to exactly get my. I've never been able to figure out exactly why I haven't been happy with the question. And so I'm going to try to answer it properly tonight. And then I'm going to talk more generally boat twelve rules about the book now. It's fine. This question is directly relevant to the book. And so it should make for a good lead in. But Lynn able to talk about something that I think is really very much worth talking about, and I hope I can formulate, the problem properly, and then formulate the proper answer, at least more coherently that I've managed it's I have this. I follow this rule for very long time, which I actually found was a Socratic rule. I didn't know this until really quite recently until I wrote twelve rules for life Sochi's said that he had a Damon by which he meant an internal voice and. He said that he always listen to it, and that was what made him different from other people that always listen to this voice, and the voice didn't tell them what to do it told them what not to do. And when the delphic oracle proclaimed that Socrates was the wisest man in Greece in Athens, and Greece. One of the reasons Socrates attributed her decision to deem him. The wisest man was because. Well, she said he knew he knew nothing but he knew in part that hit new nothing at least in part because he was always listening to the voice of his Damon, his internal conscience. And then I just found out the other day that democracy comes from the same root, which is really interesting, like I had no idea that that was the case because what it suggests. It's so fascinating looking at how words are related to one another historically because you find strange connections between ideas that you would never imagine it. Sometimes they're unbelievably profound. And so the basic what happened historically is that. Well, so there is a concept of this. Oh, crowded Damon. Now, it was the Damon, that Socrates listen to when he decided that he was not going to run when the thespians decided that they were going to put him to death. The Indian aristocrats because they thought that he was corrupting, the youth by talking to them and telling them the truth. And I suppose, that's certainly grounds for chasing someone out of your town anyways. They gave him plenty of notice because they didn't really want to kill them. They just want to get the old goat, the hell out to some other city where he could cause trouble there, and he his friends were making plans to, to scurry away from Athens anywhere out, consulted, his Damon and told him not to leave, and that was a big shock to Socrates, because, of course, he didn't wanna die. And but yet he had decided that he was always going to follow the dictates of the Damon. And he. So he did something that only philosopher would do was reversed his assumptions. He thought, oh well, I was afraid of dying and my Damon said, stick around and so I must be wrong. It must be worse to be to risk not following that internal voice than to risk this form of death. Question you have to really wrestle with and one is one is friends. Weren't very happy about, but in any case he didn't run. And we have two good court like documents, attesting to that one written by someone named Xenophon, and the other by Plato, they're very interesting documents. I would highly recommend reading they're very short. And the reason one of the reasons I would recommend reading them apart from the fact that they're fascinating and short is that you also get the sense from. From what Socrates wrote that because he had lived his life fully, you know, no-holds-barred in some sense that he could let it go when the time came, and that's an interesting thing, because, well, it's a question, I think we all wrestle with, we should is, like, well is the repurpose to our life, and that's a hard question. And then if there is a purpose. Well, how is it expressed? And then if there is a purpose in our lives are truncated, as they are, by death then how can that purpose have significance and those are hard questions, but Socrates experienced seemed to be that he had lived enough in his life so that when push came to shove, which it certainly did. He was able to gracefully let it go. And that's. And, you know, he attested to that with his death, and, and that's fairly convincing. That's a fairly convincing argument. And it's one that I find what's hard to tell if I find it exactly credible. But I don't find it incredible. I mean, certainly have noticed as I've got older and have done things various. What would you say? Accomplished, isn't exactly the right word, I participated in many things that I'm pleased to have participated in them, but wouldn't necessarily go back and participate in the McGinn, it sort of as if when you do something, and you finish it. It's as if it's done. You don't have to do it again. Maybe it's possible who knows that if you finish your life. Whatever that might mean if you exhaust your life, then then that's enough life, you know, that you've had enough and I mean, that doesn't mean that I try not to keep myself healthy, and that I wanna die tomorrow. It doesn't mean any of that. I'm trying to stick around long as I can. But but, but there's still that, that curiosity about the relationship between life and mortality, and, and the possibility that a life well lived exhausts itself in some. Fundamental sense, so that you can be satisfied. Let's say with, with what you with what you were, there is some psychological evidence that bears on this. If you ask people what they regret. Especially as they get older, what they generally port is things not done. So they don't regret so much mistakes. They've made of course. People obviously regret mistakes, they've made as well so they don't exactly regret. Sins of commission. Right. Errors that they've actively made they miss. They torment themselves for opportunities that had presented themselves that they did not, let's say exploited or engaging. And I think that's where thinking about too, because one thing that I have become convinced about with regards to human consciousness, which I think, is equivalent to the spark of divinity in some sense that are fundamental. Stories insist has been placed within us is that human consciousness is that faculty that can. Fronts potential itself. I think there's good neurological evidence for this, by the way, for those of you who are scientifically minded because. We build circuits within us for habitual action that we've practiced many times that seem to run in a very deterministic fashion. And we are strange combination of deterministic and non deterministic as far as I can tell what our consciousness seems to be four is to encounter those things that we have not yet encountered. And those is that we have not yet encountered seem to me to be those things that have not yet been brought into being. And so you could say what our consciousness is for is for the encounter with potential, you know that our consciousness is for the it's not for the past. It's not even for the present it's to transform the future into the present, and really that. That's what our consciousness, does when you wake up in the morning, you have a new day ahead of you and the day could take you in very, many directions and the weeks and the years, all of that can take you in very many direct. And you have some apprehension about what those directions might be you have some apprehension about what role your choices might make in transforming that potential into one form of actuality or another. You certainly know that there are dreadful mistakes that you might be very tempted to make that would produce all manner of hail around you and still be tempted to do it. It seems like it sitting there right in front of you as a possibility. You also know that you could haul yourself up out of bed in the ten to your duties and do the sorts of things that you're supposed to set a few things. Right. That day and that week. And that likely things would at least not be worse. And they would probably be better. And I believe that I do believe that I don't understand how this can be the case. I don't understand how it is that consciousness consciousness can function in that way. Because I think to understand that. We would have to understand what it means for the future to be only potential rather than actually, and who the hell understands that I mean, no one, and then we'd have to understand how it is that our conscious choices in our conscious ethical choices, transform that potentialities into actuality into reality into the present and the past, and we certainly we certainly act as if we believe that, that's what we do. We upgrade ourselves, for example, when we do a bad job of it. We're upset with our children. And those, we love if we don't believe that they're living up to their potential. We're guilty and ashamed, when we make choices that we feel are inappropriate. We understand to some degree that the manner in which time lays itself out has something to do with the ethics of our choice. And again, I would say, that's a very deep idea. I think it's I think it's I think it's the most. True idea. I know it's very emphasized that idea emphasized in ancient religious stories, such as those outlined in Genesis in Genesis with strange insistence that, you know, God, is that which brings order out of chaos formless potential generates the world out of formless potential, and that we're somehow made in that image, which, which seems to me to be the case, and that the proper way by the way to go about acting in that image is to act in relationship to the potential that confronts, you with truth, and with courage with careful articulation that's the logos. And that if you do that, then what you bring forth is, is good. So anyways, those are all background ideas that are associated with twelve rules for life. And they have a bearing on this question that I want to answer tonight. And so I'm gonna sit I have some notes, which I don't usually use about I'm going to use them tonight, because I haven't got everything about this particular notion memorized in some sense, yet because I'm still working it out. But that should work out. Okay. So we'll see. We'll see what happens. So. Yeah, well good. So windows worked. That's always good. See, I've seen it not work. Sometimes when Bill Gates demonstrates it. And that's that's got to be very, very embarrassing, although I would say all things considered he seems to have done quite well. All right. So here's. Here's the question that came up last night. And this is a strange question. For what is essentially a political show near the end gentleman on videotape came up and he discussed the topic of human dignity. Not it's not a topic you hear a lot about there's a lot of topics that are sort of related to human beings that you don't hear a lot about anymore. You don't hear a lot about nobility. You don't hear a lot about endurance. Let's say stalwart nece courage dignity. Those are values that we discuss much responsibility being another one, which is one, I'm quite thrilled about all things considered because I think it's the pathway demeaning itself, but so hit his was the topic of human dignity. And he asked us. Question, do you believe in God? And then he said as a Catholic, I don't see any other way that we can have a universe with dignity. And so I'm not so concerned about the second part of his commentary. Although I might get to that. But the first part, do you believe in? God is a question that's being leveled at me many times. And I'm going to risk mother people on the panel, and I'm going to just review what they said briefly, and then I'm going to talk about what I said, and then I'm going to fix what I said. I hope so that it's better. At least that's the plan. So Terry Butler who was. The labor is a labor frontbencher said, I'm agnostic people are inherently valuable because they are people and. No. That doesn't work out. It's, it's one of those one minute answers, except it's actually only ten seconds, because you can, you can make the opposite argument, and people do all the time, you know, like the club of Rome, for example. Which was an organization in Rome logically enough formed in the sixties. It was very much concerned about that terribly detrimental effect that human beings are having on the planet, and I believe it was one of the club of Rome members who coined the idea. And if it wasn't it was someone who was thinking exactly the same way so works out either way that human beings were something approximating, a cancer on the planet, you know, because of all the terrible things we were doing ecologically and so forth, that was back when people believed we were going to overpopulate, the planet to such a degree by the year two thousand that there would be widespread privation and starvation, which, by the way, if you haven't noticed there isn't. And, and you know, if you look at the terrible things that people do apart from the despoiling of the natural environment. Let's say there's all the malevolence this associated with human interactions, and also human social systems, and it isn't so obvious as a consequence of that, that you can make a straightforward case that human beings are inherently valuable merely because they're human beings, because you can eat me can equally logical case from first principles that they're inherently destructive or that they should be perhaps, limited in their ability to procreate, or that they are a catastrophe for the planet, as a whole or that our entire history is nothing but sequence of what would you call unrequited malevolence, and that people generally can't be trusted. So I don't find that answer. Particularly satisfying. I think it's a. It's. It's just self referential people are inherently valuable because are people it's like, well, you don't really get anywhere with an answer like that. So, so she's agnostic. And then, but then she has this idea, despite her agnostic that you can make the case Abe priority with nothing buttressing, it, that people are somehow inherently valuable and seems to me that, that requires a little more depth and a little more explanation for to actually be convincing. You know, it's like it's not obvious to me that people themselves think that their valuable all the time often they don't think that at all certainly don't think that often when they're depressed. They certainly don't think that when they're suicidal, they don't really think that when they're ashamed or guiltier frustrated disappointed or angry or waking up at three in the morning and tormenting themselves with their consciences. They don't necessarily think that when they're fighting with their family, or when they're upset at work, or you know, when things go wrong. In life. And so it's not so bloody obvious that people are inherently valuable and, and then you might also notice that it's kinda easy to think that some people are more valuable than others sort of like an animal farm, you know where animals were all equal, except that some animals were more equal than others. But it's very easy for human beings to think about other human beings because no matter where you look in human societies. There are rank orders value right in, in any hierarchy that we produce associated with some ability, we find that some people are so much better at whatever it is that they're doing that. It's an absolute miracle, and most people are absolutely dreadful out it. And so if you were thinking about inherent value, as something associated with, with an approximation of skill or competence, then it wouldn't be obvious from the structure of the world that people were inherently valuable in that manner, either, because there's such a rank order difference in our ability to do things. You know, when you might say, well, that kind of averages out across things, but I don't think that's a very strong argument either, so, so it's not it's bloody well, not RBIs. I'll tell you. It's not obvious where this idea that people are inherently valuable came from, that's tough one. One. And in, in Arras, too crowded states or, or too radical states. It's certainly not obvious at all that there's any acceptance of the notion that people are inherently valuable, it's like there's no necessary presumption of innocence, for example, and you don't have any sovereign right to your own destiny. Like you're not granted the rights, not granted because that's the wrong way of thinking about it. Your rights as a sovereign individual who has the responsibility. And the capability to determine the destiny of the state itself, don't exist, that doesn't exist is a concept. And so I don't see that there's anything there that speaks of inherent value, either. So it's by no means an obvious concept. In fact, I think it's one of the least obvious concepts that human beings have ever come up with that each of us in some strange manner, is, is is to be attributed. Fid some divine spark. Let's say that makes us equal in some fundamental way before God before the reality of the universe itself, even in relationship to our own laws. I mean, if you want a miracle for an idea, that's, that's I can't think of one that's, that's more unlikely than that. So I've been puzzling over that for a very long time because I cannot understand why in the world that idea ever came to be or how in the world we ever agreed to act as if it was true. It's really something we should let that go with. We let that idea go to our great peril. It's a fundamental remarkable fundamental idea. And what's so interesting about it too, is that once you have that idea weird as it is an improbable as it is. And you start to organize your social relationships in accordance with it. Well, then they work, you know. So my rule to is treat yourself if you're someone responsible for helping, and it sort of predicated on the idea that regardless of your inadequacies and your malevolence, which no, I'm. Sure, you have many inadequacies and no shortage of malevolence, just like everyone else, regardless of that, you have a moral obligations that would be a responsibility to assume that despite all evidence that there's actually something of intrinsic worth about you. And that as a consequence, you're duty bound to treat yourself like that is true. And then it turns out that if you do that. Well, then your life gets better and I don't mean happier. Exactly. I would say it gets happier. I mean it gets richer and more meaningful and deeper and, and more worthwhile. And you become more educated and you become wiser and, and, and you treat yourself with more respect in your better model for other people in your better father, or better sister, better, mother, whatever it happens to be. It's and you're less ridden by that guilt. That nausea? That you and shame. That's there otherwise, saying, you're not what you could be. You're not what you could be. That's a hell of a voice to get rid of, and it certainly not one that's easy to ignore. So that's a pretty good that, that idea that there's something divine. Let's say that resides within you of all time it worth. Even as philosophical statement or a psychological statement, rather than a metaphysical statement, it seems to be a precondition for establishing properly harmonious relationships with yourself. And that's, that's man that's worth thinking about a lot, you know that you have because you think you could think that in some sense you just own yourself, you know, because people do kind of make that claim especially when they're trying to justify for example, their right to suicide that your life. It's your body, your yours to do what you will with. And if that was true, then it would seem to me that life would be a lot more straightforward, because you would just tell yourself things that you would instantly obey and believe. So first of all, you tell yourself all the things that you were going to do, and then you just run off and do them, which you don't obviously because it's much more difficult at that. And then you'd also say, well enough of the guilt, and the shame and the negative emotion and the disillusionment and. Vengefulness and all those things that make life hard, the self recrimination. It's like what the hell do we need that for? And if we're are masters of our destiny and owners of our own fate. Then why can't we just command to ourselves that, that be dispensed with, and like that doesn't work? I've never seen anybody able to do that. So I mean you can fool yourself for very brief periods of time into thinking that, that might work, but. But it doesn't work and that's strange, and this is one of the reasons I love the psychoanalysts because they were reading the people apart from the religious types figured out that whatever you are. You're not a unitary spirit. That's under your own dominion, in your something like a loose unity of a multiplicity of spirits, many of which are doing their own thing, which you're striving to bring into some form of unity, but even that unity isn't something that's under your control in any real sense. It's, it's a unity that has its own nature that you have to exist in relationship to, and I would also say that, that's one of the things that keeps people people's feet firmly on the ground because otherwise, it's easy to become egotistical and narcissistic. Now, if you if you think that you're the center of your own being in some fundamental sense, then you're only what you're only behold to yourself. You're sort of a self created. Creature perhaps, you could think about it that way. But it doesn't work like that. It's like the ideal that constitutes the unity that you might become then sort of manifest itself as something that you could strive toward. But aren't and it also serves as a judge. It's the thing that keeps you up at night, saying, you know, there's some things you just not attending to, and you should get at it because life is short. And there's no shortage of trouble that you might end up in a wise person would attend to the dictates of his conscience, and, and lay out his actions in the world, according to what he knows to be true, and correct. And that is how people think, and it isn't obvious that we want, we think that way that this is part of the reason that it seems to me, so obvious that we have a religious instinct, because I can't think of what else you would poss-. Ably call that other than a religious instinct. You know, need it when he proclaimed the death of God, which, which, by the way was new triumphant prog mation because he also mentioned that we would never find enough water to wash away the blood, which was his, what would you call it prononce decay shin for the twentieth, century and very accurate one at that he believed that we would in some sense have to become as gods. In, in our selves, in order to replace what we had lost. He thought that, that the collapse of the Judeo Christian structure, would be absolutely catastrophic for the west, and I believe that he was correct. And if the way out of that would be that we'd have to create our own values we'd have to take the place of what was once let's say externalised and divine onto ourselves and, you know, it's a hell of a theory. And, and it's not an each is not an easy person to criticize because. You, you have to do a lot of reading before you find someone who's one tenth as smart as Nietzsche. He has this funny line about is books. It's really quite comical. He said. Takes most writers a whole book to write what I can write a sentence. Then he said, no, they can't even manage it in a book. And that's actually true. I mean, if you read in each Bjorn, good Nevil, for example, you see that. His his thought is so powerful that it's really it's really a kind of miracle what, what the cycle analysts realize, though, this was particularly Young's contribution. I would say Carl Young's contribution. He was a great student of Nietzsche, real admire of nature and really someone who is trying to solve the problem that needs she had put forward, which was well, our underlying metaphysics our religious structure had collapsed, and that was the story upon which our entire culture was based for better worse. It had collapsed, and we needed to do something about that. We were doing various things. We were turning to fascism. Let's say or we were turning to communism both. Ideological replacements. For more fundamental religious beliefs. But that Nietzsche's suggestion that we turn to ourselves to extract out our own values to create our own values. Let me let me be more accurate about that happened to be untrue, because we weren't the sort of creatures who are actually capable of doing that. And that's such. What's one of the reasons I love you and his biological take in some sense towards human beings. Because you firmly believed and I think all of the evidence supports him believe that human beings, actually had a nature, you know, that, that we that we weren't nearly social constructions, which we certainly aren't despite what the social construction insist upon. Forcing us to think increasingly through legislative means and that we had to wrestle with what it was that we were even though we're at world creatures in some sense. We also have to wrestle with our intrinsic nature. And we know about we know about the nature part of that more and more mean we know more about our neuro circuitry, for example, we know that there's a circuit for rage, and there's a circuit for fear, and there's a, there's a biological system for jealousy. And there's a system for altruism and as a circuit for play and there's another one for pleasure. There's a complex circuit for negative emotion pain, anxiety, and frustration disappointment. Guilt, and shame. And we know that human beings, share that motivational structure, not only with all other human beings. But with certainly with all mammals and almost all animals and so that biol- biological. Component of us is unbelievably deep fried, it's. It's mill tens of millions hundreds of millions and even. And even billions of years old. I read an interesting paper, just the other day, I tend to talk about lobsters more than the average person. And one of the points I made into of rules for life. Was that our neuro chemistry? At least some of it is so similar. It's been conserved so completely throughout the immense, duration of evolution hundreds of millions of years that lobsters like human beings appeared to become the lobster equivalent of depressed if they suffer a hierarchy defeat, and that if you give them chemicals that are roughly analogous to human antidepressants. It perks them right back up their posture improves, and they'll go off and fight. And when I first discovered that it just well, it just it just blew me away. I never recovered from it. I thought my God really the continent is three hundred and fifty million years of continuity, in, in the structure of those systems. You know, we know the serotonin system, which is the system. I'm talking about does. Govern your observation of where you sit in a social hierarchy like it does for many, many animal species. And as one consequence of that regulates your motion, so that if it sees that you're a relatively high status creature in your local environment than it tends to allow you to feel more positive emotion, and less negative emotion. And if it sees you as a low status, creature in your local comparative environment that it does the opposite overwhelms you with negative emotion, and suppresses positive emotion. And so, you know, and that's really bad. No one likes that it's, it's fundamentally, there's really nothing worse that can happen to you than that, to have those emotions re re. Adjusted in that manner, so that the incentive reward and the motivation and the positive emotion vanishes from your life. So there's nothing to be enthusiastic, or excited about and all of the negative, emotions pain disappointment, frustration grief, all of those terrible negative emotions are tremendously magnified. No one wants that. It's the it's the last thing you want, perhaps. It's the last thing you want. And that's partly why people are very, let's call it. What would you say? They're tightly. They're willing to fight for their position in their status hierarchy, and even the existence of the hierarchies themselves. So anyways, it is the case that human beings have nature and we have to contend with that nature. And so we can't just create our own values and what, what you, especially you Freud started. But especially believe that well, in some sense. What had happened was that we had lost the externalised religious narrative that had been projected buyer imagination out onto the world. You know. Think about the constellations and the names of the constellations, and the idea that the skies were populated by God's. That was an extra analyze ation of our imagination. Right. Projected out into the world. We were seeing the world through our imagination, and which is exactly how we do. See the world and as we proceed, we're better able to distinguish. Let's say what's imagination from what's objective world? But that doesn't mean the imagination disappears or that its without value because the imagination is part of what helps us, let's say confront the future, because we do that with our imagination and to compose things in, in possibility before we realize them in actuality. So for young the world of God's just collapsed within back into the imagination, and it was into the imagination that we had to go again, to discover what we had lost to discover these, these lost values. And that's a Ken in some sense, I suppose to rescuing your father from the. Belly of the whale, very brilliant? Brilliant tour of intellectual tour de force to, to manage that supposition especially back when back when he did it. And I think I see no evidence whatsoever that he was wrong, given as I said, are radical inability to command ourselves, as, if we are our own in some fundamental way. We seem subject to now we seem subject to intractable moral laws, and I'm not trying to make a case for the accuracy of those laws necessarily or further metaphysical origin. But I am trying to make a case for their psychological phenomena, logical reality, you definitely experienced them insofar as you suffer let's say the from from the from the pricks and arrows of your own conscience. And I doubt if there's a single person in this room who doesn't raid early suffer in that. Manner and some of you suffered like that virtually all the time, when you know, which can also be a problem in any case, it's, it's interesting to note that we're not exactly masters in our own houses. And that that's, that's such interesting thing to note because you think well if we're not masters in our own houses. What, what is it is it just is it just a chaotic internal structure is nearly the voice of nature and nature's various instinctual subsystems that doesn't seem to be correct, because we do integrate them into something approximating unity. There's more than just the basics of nature. We have language we have communication. We have culture we build up above nature, something that's more the nature, but we're still behold into it. The question is, well, what are we behold into what is this, that we're beholden to and socially, politically and individually that we cannot escape from well, so. So that's part of the question, do you believe in God, while this part of the answer, actually, and what's bleak answer? But the first thing I'm trying to say is. Try controlling yourself Triax as, if you're the fundamental source of your own values independent of any what would you call a transcendent ethical structure to see if you can do that with try it for a week? Try it for a month. I've never met anybody could do it. Not, not even for a moment. I don't know how many of you have read Dustiev skis crime and punishment. But I would highly recommend that, if you're interested in this sort of thing because it's the definitive study of this idea because in crime and punishment the protagonist commits the perfect murder, and he has his reasons for it and, and many reasons because Dostoevsky didn't mess around when he wanted to give someone reasons he gave them reasons. And restall Nicole of main character had reasons for murder and then he commences murder and he gets away with it. But things don't go well for Skolnikov because one of the things he finds out is that the restall niqab that you were before you committed the murder is not the same as the recording the call as you are after you've committed the murder, and there's a dividing line there that you don't it's like the red pill. I guess. Right. It's like that's the matrix. Correct. The red pill. And once this. Certain actions. Once you take them, there's no going back. And so that's what crime and punishment is about recording. The call of tortures himself to death, well, not literally but meta physically psychologically, because he cannot tolerate breaking the great moral code. And so it's a great book. It's truly a great book, and it's also extraordinarily like it's a it's a murder mystery thriller, as well as being a deep philosophical book. So if you're in the mood for a murder mystery thriller. That's also a deep philosophical book, then that's the one for you. So now, one of the other speakers on the panel, then bad ham who, who, who described was described, not by me, as a writer, activist and Twitter, Queen. Which is I think like being the red Queen in Ellison wonderland, something like that. I went on Twitter site today to find out how many followers she has. But apparently I'm not one of them because I'm blocked. And kind of. Surprises me. Because I didn't know that I'd ever tried to follow her, but anyways, she said, and this was interesting. She said, I'm a Christian and a Marxist. And I thought. No. You can only be a Christian and a Marxist if you. Well, there's a couple of ways one is one is that you just want to be all things that are good at once regardless of their internal contradictions, and so that would be one reason. And another reason would be that you don't know anything about Christianity, or Marxism, and, and, and then the next would be that you're just compartmentalized, you know, like there's this idea that people can't hold two contradictory thoughts in their mind at the same time. Well, that idea was formulated by someone who who's never met a human being because you can hold like fifty contradictory thoughts in your head at the same time, as you know, whenever you argue with someone that you love because you love them. And maybe you even like them, but you also hate them. And you wish that you could just crush them right there. And then, and so that's a lot of contradictory ideas. And that's probably. Only like half the contradictory ideas that are running through your mind at the moment. So man, you're so full of contradictions. It's just beyond belief and the only time I might not know this because I read undergraduate essays and what's what's interesting about undergraduate essays is, it's so interesting because the undergraduate will make a claim in paragraph one, and then in paragraph seven will make the opposite claim and they won't notice that they're intellectually incommensurate and you know that might happen thirty times in the essay and the reason that, that, that works is because they haven't been cold on the paradoxes, but also because they haven't had to live the paradoxes through because you really only straighten out your thought. When you have like impulse an impulse be and they conflict at the same time. Right. And you can either do one or the other, but not. But both, you know if it's aid today and tomorrow, well, then you can be you can hold those ideas similar Taneomi. But if it's a or b right now, then you have to decide is a more important or as be more important you have to put them in a hierarchy, and then you have to act them out and you have to see what happens. And so then you find out if your full of contradictions and part of the way that you iron out your contradictions which is very, very hard to do is that you go out and you do a whole bunch of things in the world. Like Socrates did you go? You have your adventure in the world and you put your ideas to the test, and those that work out in a paradoxical, or counter productive manner you dispense with or put lower on the priority list, or something like that. And that's how you discover that you can't hold incommensurate views symbol taniwha sleep Carl Jung said that. Something like paradoxical views that are not made conscious will be played out in the world as fate, and that's really worth thinking about too. So if you have your let's call it your typical negative experience with this thing that just keeps seems to just keep happening to you about luck. Let's call it. It's highly probable that there's a set of ideas that are occupying, you preoccupying you, possessing you that are driving you in this direction continually, and that you, you can't or won't work out the contradiction, and as a consequence, you know, maybe you think every woman is your mother and you have noticed that you think that, that, that ended is something that people think because women are mothers are women, and it's not a bad initial template. But you know you got to you. Gotta modify it to some degree. And, you know, if that's an unconscious idea that you have, and you continue to play it out. You may run into your continual habit. You'll negative experience with women and you wonder what the hell is wrong with women, but it isn't the women that has the problem. It's you. And and you know if you run into problems with women all the time. Then it's highly probable that the problem is you so not always, but generally, so let's go into this Marxist and Christian idea here, just for a minute. So we'll start with start with some of the ideas of Marx. Well, Marx believed that people were basically, socially constructed, so that we were blank slates, and that, whatever our nature was was given to us essentially by our surroundings, but even more importantly, by our social class, right? Because Marx was a theorist of social class and believed that the primary. Dispute. Let's say the primary motivator of human history. The primary driver of human history was something like the rich versus poor urge was versus the proletariat and not was it consequence of your social upbringing, and that your group identity was paramount. Okay. So there's nothing about that. It's vaguely Christian. That's not how the Christian worldview works know how the Judeo Christian worldview works because in that world, you're fundamentally, and individual, your nature is fundamentally attributable to you by God. You're fundamentally responsible to God and your and history. It self is something like the playing out of your relationship to the transcendent. So those things aren't even those aren't the same. They're not commensurate. You can't believe both of them at the same time. Marxism is a materialistic philosophy. It's predicated on the idea that essentially idea that criticized in great depth. Was that, if you just made people rich enough, let's say, if you deprive them of their privation, if you equalize their economic status. Let's say that the u topa would come to light upon earth, and, you know, I have a certain amount of sympathy for view point like that. Because you know who likes starvation and and misery. There's nothing positive to be said about that. But I think it was right to his criticism of Marxism, although he wasn't directly aiming this at Mark's in notes from underground where he noted that, you know, if you gave people what they wanted in terms of, let's say bread and circuses. They had as he said, nothing to do, but eat cakes and busy themselves with the continuation of the species, which is kind of a nice phrase. Is that the first thing they would do is take a hammer and smash things just so that something improbable in strange would happen, just so that we could have our way. And it's kind of a recapitulation of the idea of original sin endorsed ski subtle manner. Is that we're the sorts of creatures that? You know what he say? We're on grateful. That's the thing that primarily distinguishes us from animals is we're ungrateful, and that we can curse that was what he thought made us different than animals. And if even if we got what we wanted material that wouldn't satisfy us because we're not the sorts of creatures that can be satisfied with material possessions. Let's material comfort because it isn't even obvious that we're after comfort. I mean, what do you want, you want want to just lay in featherbed, and eat peeled, grapes, all day? I mean maybe for an hour or so that might not be a bad idea. But you know you're gonna get dull pretty quick. You're going to go out looking for trouble and it's certainly possible that the more material resources and the easier they were to get that you have at your disposal. The more creative ways, you're going to find to cause yourself trouble when you go out and look for trouble. And so, and that's a testament to the human spirit, Dostoevsky, new, this is like, well, whatever were here. For it isn't the you told of equal material distribution. That's not we're not we're not we're not looking to be fed end asleep. You know, I don't know what it is that we're looking for God only knows maybe what we're looking for is to continually. Keep looking something like that. I mean, that's the sorts of creatures that we are. But, but, but the materialist philosophy is that, well if you just provided for people economically problem over and no wrong. I mean, most of you are as given that you're going to be ill in one way or another, in that you're still subject to mortality, and all of the terrible natural limitations that human beings are characterized by your mode, as well off as you're gonna get, you know, the economic data already show that once you have enough money so that Bill, collectors aren't. Chasing you which basically puts, you say, at the kind of in the upper reaches of the working class, or maybe the lower end of the middle class, something like that, that additional money has absolutely no effect whatsoever on your self reported wellbeing, which is something like a combination of positive emotion and absence of negative emotion. So you might like to think that if you're rich your life would be better, and maybe it would be somewhat better. But wouldn't be as much better as you might hope, and that's because you'd still have most of the problems that people have, you know, you still maybe wouldn't get along with your sister, and you'd still get divorced. Maybe you'd even be more likely to there's still be onus. That would be set you be able to deal with them, perhaps with some degree of more urgency. But. And you still have the problem with what the hell your life is for and what you're doing on the planet and how to conduct yourself in the proper way. So, so we don't want to be too naive about materialism, even though we don't wanna be ungrateful for its advantages marks also believed, while I said this already that history was basically, characterized by the war of socio economic groups that's been transferred. More recently into the war of identity groups, which is the same damn thing. Let's the same old wolf in new sheep's, clothing, as far as I'm concerned that in the best way to conceptualize human beings is wide whatever your damn identity is. Maybe it's sex for you. It's ethnishity for you and it's gender for you. And God only knows what it is for you. And, you know, and that's who you identify with and all their is in the world. And this is the post modernist view is hierarchies of people in these identity groups struggling for dominion in. That's a quasi, Marxist view. Point. It's just a variant of the Berge was Iverson proletariate theory of history, which is a foolish theory, as far as I'm concerned, and certainly not one that we need to take forward into the twenty first century. Although we seem, you know. Destined to insist that we do. So he believed that the revolutionary overthrow of the oppressor class was necessary and morally demanded, and that turns out to be a little bloodier than I would say the typical Christian Judeo-Christian ethic might require because it doesn't require you to take up arms against your evil overlords, and well, put them in gulags and kill them by the millions, for example. And that to me seems to be an important difference. There's, there's no in the Judeo Christian tradition. There's no guilt. There's no group guilt. Right. You're guilty. You're guilty of different things presume and that's your problem. But maybe you're also innocent who knows. But whatever it's on you. It's not a consequence of your racial heritage of your ethnicity or your gender any of those things. It's, it's betw-. Clean you and God, let's say between you and the state even. But at least it's between you and the state or God. It's not like well, you know, your father was. Factory owner. Let's say your grandfather, and so it was perfectly reasonable during the Russian revolution. And the red terror to vacuum, you up, along with your whole family and do away with you, because you'd be irredeemably tainted by your Berge was passed. So that's another place where Marxism and Judeo Christianity are, then they're not just different like their opposite. You know it's not just very one in variant to these are, like, seriously different ideas. And so, here's another reason you can't be a Marxist in Christian. And then there's the idea that. Marx had that religion was the opiate of the masses, which doesn't exactly sound like I've always thought religion was the opiate of the masses. But communism Marxism was the. Methamphetamine of the of the masses. Let's say, yeah, the math of the masses we, we had no idea with regards to, so here's what Marx has to say about religion, the abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is the demand for their real happiness to call on them to give up their illusions about their condition is to call on them to give up a condition that requires illusions interesting to me, because it's not like the Judeo Christian story was really a happy one as far as I can tell. I mean, there was heaven. But chances you were going to get in man, that was low and, and, and mostly it was fair bit of original sin, and a fair bit of you wrestling with all of your inadequacies and your proclivity towards malevolence to pick up your cross to bear, your suffering to understand that there was a war in your. Between the forces of good and evil. It's like how that's an opiate is beyond me. I mean, if I was going to design an opiate that made people feel better. I'd certainly dispense with a fair bit of that. It's like whatever you do is okay. We could start with that. There's certainly no hell. That's something we're going to get rid of right away. Little less guilt, and shame would be like a hippie, the nineteen sixties with them more marijuana and some free sex, something, something like that. So I don't really understand the illusion idea there is marks criticism. I suppose of the belief of the great, the great father in the sky, who, who, who still doesn't seem to me to be that like. Be sort of still kind of a nightmarish creature all things considered since at least in principle is keeping track of everything you do even more than you are. And that's not such a good thing. But whatever. So it's foolish criticism as far as I can tell, but doesn't matter. He's still criticized it. The criticism of religion is therefore, an embryo, the criticism of that Vale of tears of which religion is the halo criticism. Meaning his has plucked the imaginary flowers on the chain, not an order that man shall continue to bear that chain without fantasy or consolation. But so that he shall throw off the chain and pluck the living flower. That's something that plenty of marxists. Did I can tell you the criticism of religion disillusions, man, so that he will think act and fashion, his reality like a man who is discarded his allusions and regained his senses, so that he will move around himself as old true son as u n? Yeah. Well, that's that's Merck's is in a nutshell. All right. I mean, that's, that's the fundamental definition of pathological narcissism so that he will move around himself as his own true, son. Right. Religion is only the losers son, which revolves around man as long as he does not revolve around himself. And, you know, generally, we don't use that as an insult. He only revolves around himself. Isn't that an insult and the reason for that don't we assume that there's something that you should be revolving around that isn't just yourself? It's could be many things. It could be well someone you love. That would be a start could be a child could be your, your partner in life could be could be your your family in extension. Could be your community. It could be some noble ideal that you're trying to serve to be something other than you as the primary center of the universe around, which, well, you and presumably everything else, revolves. So I don't really see that as particularly wise. What would you call it philosophy? And as it manifested itself in the world. You know, I would say, Stalin probably revolved around himself quite nicely since don't you think I mean, if you had to pick someone who was revolving around himself, it would be a pretty decent competition between Maui and Stalin. And, and, and that didn't seem to be that didn't seem to be for the best. So, so that's something to consider as well. The marxists believe that religion hindered human development and the Soviets in the Maoists instituted state, atheism apart from the worship of their leaders, of course, and then I'm going to read you a poem by Marx. This is a good one. I phoned this awhile back. God, it's a rough poem. And you wanna you wanna let your imagination sort of, I would say, let your imagination loose with this poem, which is what you should do with. And imagine the sort of state of mind that you have to be into right of home like this. And then also imagine as you should that poetry, like dreams are the birth birthplace of thought with my undergraduates often, especially ones that are really obsessed with ideas. They'll often put really bad poetry in their essays. And, and I'm not saying that in a cynical way because bad poetry can have good ideas in it hard to write good poetry. But the thing is often an idea. That's extraordinarily emotional in content will manifest itself as a poem before it is able to articulate itself out into fully expressed philosophy. And so I see this with my undergraduate still really be obsessed with something that's bothering them than the rights some poem often about a personal experience. And then as I help them shape, the essay, they kind of unfold the poll into an articulated statement, about the structure of reality, and so you could say, well, you know, we're all embedded in the dream, we know that you go to sleep every night and you dream, you're in bedded in your imagination, if if you're if you're forbidden to dream if you're deprived of your dreams you will lose your mind that's been experimentally demonstrated quite nicely on animals, but also on human beings. You have to dream, you have to enter that, that realm of incoherent, imagination, and possibility in order to maintain your sanity, which is extraordinarily. Interesting very strange, and I would say poetry eggs. Cysts on the border between the dream and the fully articulate wakefulness. It's, it's, it's the place where the image of the dream meets the meets the meets the meets the articulated speech of full consciousness. And so you can think about that with regards to this poem. Invocation of one in despair. So a God has snatched for me all my all in the curse in rack of destiny. All his worlds are going beyond recall nothing, but revenge is left to me. On myself revenge proudly reek. On that, being that enthroned Lord make my strength. Patchwork of what's week leave my better self without reward. I shall build my throne high overhead cold. Tremendous Shelat summit be for its bulwark. Superstitious dread for its Marshall. Blackest Agassi, who looks upon it with a healthy, I shall turn back struck deathly pale and dumb. Clutched by blind and chill. Mortality may his happiness prepared to. And the Oneida lightning shell rebound from that massive iron giant. If he brings my walls, and towers down eternity show, raise them up defiant. Well, I would say that's the sort of poem, that would be written by someone who revolved around himself as his own true son, and I would also say that given what we know about what happened as a consequence of the instead of Marxist doctrine that this is truly horrifying piece of literature to contemplate written, by the way, when marks was rather young. So then the question came to me, do I believe in God? And I don't like that question. And people have complained at me a lot. And I'm sure they have the reasons because they don't like my answers, I have two answers. They've kind of become stock, which is not a good thing. But, but they're the best approx. I can't figure out why don't like the question. Exactly. I've got three. I had three sort of burgeoning hypotheses one was it's none of your damn business. That's the first one. So it was like a privacy issue like it seemed to me to be question. That was to private to be answered properly, and so and, you know, you could consider that a cop out, maybe it is. And then another one was. Well, what do you mean by believe, like do mean the words, do you mean to say the words, I believe, in God, does that indicate that you believe in God, like, I don't know what you mean by believes exactly because that's got me in trouble, too, because, you know, people think that attempting to clarify the meaning of words, an attempt to escape from the question when it's actually an attempt to specify the question is what you believe what you say or what you act out now. Why would say to some degree? It's both. But if push comes to shove, as far as I'm concerned, what you believe is what you act out, not what you say. And if you're an integrated person than what you act out in what you say are the same thing, and then you're a person who's word can be trusted, right? Because what you say and what you do are Morphing. They're the same thing, but belief is instead, cheated and actions. So I have also suggested that I act. As if I believe, in God, or to the best of my ability, and people aren't very happy with that, either. But then the third is afraid that he might exist, which I think, is the most Carmichael of the three answers, and perhaps the most accurate one. But then, but then I was thinking about this today when I was thinking about what I might talk to you guys about it. I thought, well, let's go into this a little bit more. Let's say you say you do believe in God, I believe in God. It's like okay. Well, that's hypothetically, pretty impressive. I would say it's like you believe that there's a divine power that oversees everything that is fundamentally ethical. That's watching everything you do. And, and you believe that in so what effect does that have on your behavior? If you believe it, does that mean that you're. Well, are you are you all in on your beliefs? Are you sacrificing everything to this transcendent entity that you proclaim belief in? Have you cleansed yourself of all your sin? Let's say are you making all the sacrifices that you need to make like have you taken the mode of your, I know or are you in the same situation? Let's say that the Catholic church seems to be in right now just out of curiosity time to bring that up since the pope seems to be concerned with what's been happening with the Catholic church, given the endless pedophilia scandals. Let's save see rather serious in my estimation might have been something that was cleaned up, perhaps. One hundred thousand years ago, and it's being taken seriously perhaps now and perhaps not because it's not so easy to determine exactly what it would mean to take that seriously. And you might say, well, all the people who are committing these highness actions, and then covering them up if you ask them. Well, do you believe in God, what are they going to say? You'd think the answer would be. Yes, given that they're like. Priests and an yet. And yet, what's the evidence evidence isn't exactly clear that the mere statement. Let's say the MIR acting out of the ritual, let's say, and I'm not trying to denigrate the statement or the ritual. But I'm pointing out the that's no indication of your right to say that you believe because you got I think this is why it's bothered me. Answer this question. It's like what right, do I have to say that to make that claim I believe in God, what's the claim is that the claim that I'm a good person somehow because you'd think that if you believed in God, actually, like, seriously, the, you'd be a good person like right now because. For obvious reasons, I would think, and so if that hasn't happened in some sort of miraculous sense, so that you're the best person, you could possibly imagine being on an ongoing basis and terrified of, of deviating from that path in a serious manner. Then I don't see why you have the right to say that you believe in God, you know, one of the things Nietzsche said about Christianity was a great critic of Christianity. Also great friend in a very peculiar way in. Sometimes your best friend is the one who points out your weakest. Properties. Let's say he said, as far as he was concerned. There is only one Christian and he died on the cross. And that's that's you know, perhaps extreme statement but one worth giving some consideration to it's like, well then you look at what he what are you cold upon? Let's say if you're going to proclaim yourself as a believer, and I thought about this a lot as I've gone through the Old Testament, I did a bunch of lectures last year. So what do you call the pawn? Well, you're called upon initially too. Act out the spark of divinity within you by confronting potential with the logos that's within you which means to take the opportunities that are in front of you the potential future, and to transform it into the present in the best possible way using truth, and courage, and careful articulation as your as your as your as your as your guide. So that's the first thing you're called on to do that. That's a major deal there. That's a tough one. And then the second is to make the proper sacrifices. That's the Cain and Abel story is like you want something you genuinely wanted you want to set the world straight than you let go of what's necessary. And you pursue you let go of what isn't necessary. No matter what it is, no matter what it is. And then you pursue. What's necessary? And then maybe you sacrifice your children to God that, that was the story. That's one of the next stories that comes up, of course, and you think, well, that's pretty damn barbaric. And the way the stories laid out, of course, it is. But. That isn't exactly what it means. It means that what you try to do, when you raise children that you try to do everything you can to impress upon them by imitation and by instruction and by love and by encouragement that they are crucial beings in the world, whose ethical decisions play an important role in shaping the structure of reality itself, and that they have the moral responsibility to do that. And you get your arc in order. That's your family. Let's say so that when the storms come you can stay above water for the forty days of flooding, and you're capable of leading your people through the desert when the desert makes it self manifest. And you can escape from tyranny properly, because you're wise enough to see it and you take the full burden of being on yourself all the suffering. That's, that's part and parcel of that you accept that voluntarily, let's say, and you do everything you can to confront the malevolence, that's part of you. And that's part of the state, and it's part of the world and you, you, you make a garden around you. That's the paradise of walled garden. It's wall, well watered place, so the forces of nature and society exist together in harmony, and you place, your family in that so that they can live properly, and you treat your enemy, as if he's yourself and the same with your brother. And then you can say. Then maybe you can say maybe then you have the right to say that you believe in God. Otherwise, maybe you should think twice about it because. You know, there's a line in the New Testament, that Christ himself says to them, I should read them too, because there are very relevant to this. I guess I paraphrase paraphrase them. A rich man comes up to Christ and says, and, and says, good, good leader. Good Lord asthma question about how it is that he should be a good person. Christ says, don't call me good. There's no one. That's good. But God and. That's worth thinking about. The one person. That in principle in our ancient stories had the right to make some direct connection between himself and the divine was unwilling to do it when challenged. And so it might be reasonable to assume that each of us could be much more cautious about making that sort of statement. Bluntly when we're asked. And then the other line is. Not all those who say Lord Lord, will enter the kingdom of heaven got that about right. Which means something approximating, just because you make a claim. Two more virtue. Let's say your belief in God, which I can't see how you can make a higher claim to moral virtue than that. You know, I mean egg NAS tick atheistic, I don't really care, the purpose. The point is something like this. Imagine something of ultimate transcendent value. I don't care whether you believe in it or not. But imagine that something like that exists. And then you swear allegiance to it, which is to say I believe in this. I mean, there's a heavy moral burden that comes along with that just to allow yourself to other the words without feeling that you should be immediately struck down appropriately by lightening. And so. Well in. So I think that's why that question makes me uncomfortable. It's that I don't think I have. I don't think I have a right to make that proclamation. There's another thing too, that I learned when I was going through these biblical lectures. It was a fascinating thing to do. Was the story of Jacob who became Israel. Jacob was a real trickster. You know, he was a morally ambiguous figure to, to put it mildly. He tricked his older brother out of his birthright and he was full of tricks and the end. A lot of tricks played on him to maybe learned something a consequence anyways after running away from his brother who had murderous thoughts and for good reasons for about twenty years. Maybe it was only fourteen but doesn't matter. It was a long time. He decided that he would go back and try to make peace. And he came to this river. He sent his family across the river, along with his belongings, and partly as an offering to his brother a peace, offering, and he had a dream dream visionary, experience hallucination. God who knows what it was, and he dreamt that he wrestled with an angel all night. And that the angel was God and God, he won. Which is very strange because. Well, first of all, he was a trickster figure, you know, like. Wasn't your most upstanding moral creature? He wasn't. No, for example, and second was God. You know it's like if you're going to wrestle with someone and lose. There's an opponent, that's likely to take you out, and he did damages hip, so. It's not that impressive accomplishment on God's part in my estimation. But. But that is very interesting story because what it does indicate what's so cool about it. You see Jacob's name is changed at that point to Israel, and Israel means those who wrestle with God, and that's that blew me. That's one of the things I love about studying stories is now. And then you come across a piece of one and you and you see in into it, you know, you see down into the depths that characterizes, it's very difficult. But happens sometimes. And it just flattens, you to think that if Israel is that is the that if Israel is the chosen people of God, that's the hypothesis. And what Israel means is those who wrestle with God think that, that gives it seems to me to be such a hopeful idea because, well, everyone does that to some degree. I mean do that in your life because. Well, you don't know what's fundamental transcendent worth. You know who the hell are you? And what do you know you're, you're struggling all the time with well, I would say it with good and evil. When you're struggling with yourself you struggling with the world to, to portray that as wrestling with God, that's perfectly reasonable from a metaphor perspective. And the idea that that's what characterizes the true people of God is that willingness to wrestle, that's really something because it. Kinda indicates that you're here as a contender. You know, you're not here to be happy. You're not here to be complacent. You're not here to be materially satisfied. Not that, that would be possible anyways, but that you're here to contend with the structure of reality. Right. And that's what will satisfy you because there's something to you. You know, we can nothing there's something to you Sunday, something malevolent and terrible. I mean, you know that you look at how people behave you look at the blood and catastrophe of our history. You can certainly see though the absolute the absolute hellish depths of the human soul. But there's, there's something that takes root in that in grows up out of that, that's absolutely magnificent beyond belief, and that's looking for for to contend. I've often thought that I've been fortunate in my marriage because you think, well, you got you get married and you live happily ever after. It's like. That's not it. You don't want that put you on. We want your partner to just all. She's going to do is sprinkle rose pedals in front of you, right. Pat, you on the back of the head and tell you how wonderful you are constantly day after day man you'd be so sick of that after two well maybe take a month. But, but let's say two weeks it'd be you'd be because, you know, she should be more on the side of who you could be then on the side of who you are. And if she's diluted enough for terrified enough to worship you and your current form then, well, that doesn't say much for her, and it certainly isn't very helpful for you. You want someone that's going to get in the way now and then, you know, and, and to contend with, and I've been fortunate my marriage, because I have someone to contend with, you know, we, we have our discussions, and they're not easy, partly because we have hard problems to Saul. Because life is full of hard problems. I want someone who stand up, you know, and have her say, even if it's not what I would say, maybe I'm even willing at times because she's quite intuitive, and good dreamer, and I'm more facile verbally, and so we have to be careful in our relationship because if I'm in a particularly ornery mood, and she has something to say, I can usually slice up, her arguments verbally, you know, man, then, that's, that's fine as far as I'm concerned because I get to win, but it's stoop. Well, it's stupid. It's first of all, that doesn't mean I'm right. It just means I can formulate verbal arguments slightly faster than she can. But her intuitions her dreams are often extraordinarily accurate. And so we've learned to, to some degree to buttress each other's arguments just on off saw off chance that the person that you were foolish enough to marriage. Mary might know something you don't now and then about something important, you know. So what do you want you want someone to contend with then it's an adventure. You know, and then you have someone that you love and that you respect, and that's not a bad combination for longevity of relationship. And then maybe if you have someone that you love and respect, and that you can communicate within your children. Also, love and respect her or him. And then that's pretty good for them because they've got some parents that they could love and respect. That's good. Combination. No solidifies their life. And so you want to contend with them. You want job challenging, I would say that pushes you beyond what you already are and God. Only knows how much how hard you need to be pushed in order to go beyond where you are. But, you know, to some degree if you have a choice, you know, it's not that uncommon that what we'll do is choose to be pushed to the limit, especially. When we're at our best we think, well, where's the limit here? Maybe I can manage that. I'm going to push myself right to the damn limit. Then I'm going to push myself a little bit over just to see if it's possible. And if that happens, then, you know, you emerged with the sense of triumph. I'm now more than I was. Right. And maybe that's what you're here to be is to be more than you were trying to push those limits and to do that. You contend with the world you wrestled with God, you don't casually say, I believe, because who knows no-one no-one knows right? We're separated from the infinite by death. Ignorance we don't know. We contend we wrestle, and no one in that maybe we'd find our destiny least we find our purpose. Find something that's that that justifies us to some degree, you know, if I'm awake at night wondering and I thank God. You know, like I pushed myself as far as I could. In this effort. Whatever the effort that I'm considering happens to be pushed myself. I don't have a weight on my conscience, because I let something go or I failed to accomplish something. I mean, I do often have those sorts of weights. I'm talking about the rare times when I don't is like, well, there's something that, that that's where there's some atonement and some peace as far as I'm concerned, where that contending, and that wrestling has been successful. And I would say that insofar as you're deeply involved in out like completely involved in that thoroughly involved in out, then you have the right to say that you believe in God and since I'm not like that one hundred percent of the time or even approximating the percent of the time that I would like to be like that, you know, despite my best efforts, then when people ask me, I'm not going to say something virtuous like, I'm a believer because. There's plenty wrong with me that needs to be fixed before would dare utter words like that. Thank you. Well, so that's bad around ser- to that question. So thank you very much. We're walking through with me. Let's say now you have all nor all many of you have asked questions tonight using this nifty, little device called Slidell, which I really like. And so now what I'm going to do is spend twenty minutes or so looking through the questions that you asked, and seeing if I have anything that isn't completely incomprehensible and embarrassing to say about them. So let's try that. Well, this is a strange one. I don't know about you people from Sydney. So it's from Cathy Newman. Which strikes me as somewhat unlikely and it's got one hundred sixty four up votes. So which is quite a few votes. It hurt when you destroyed me on ABC. Now, I don't know if that's referring to last night, or so many months ago. But I have enrolled in university to get my facts, right? Yeah. Well, that probably will work. Thank you for enlightening my soul. The burns are still healing. Yeah. Well, that's not exactly a question. It's, it's four sentences that are quite the strange combination, I would say something about the burns are still healing. You know, I mean, Nietzsche said that you could tell much about a man's character by how much truth he could tolerate, which is very interesting. There's an idea in the great western tradition that the truth is the way in the path of life. And, and that no one comes to the father except through the truth. And, and I believe that to be the case because I don't think that you can manifest who are without the troops. And so, I think it's, it's, it's literally a metaphor cly true that the pathway to who you could be if you were completely who you were is through the truth, and I would say, and so the truth does set you free. But the. The problem is that it destroys everything that isn't worthy in you, as it sets you free. And that's that's a process of burning and, and, and it's, it's painful because you cling to what you shouldn't be party out of pride in party out of ignorance and partly out of laziness. And, and so then you encounter something true. And you all know this you all know this perfectly well, because. When was the last time that you learned something important that wasn't a, a blow of some sort, you know? It's often you look back at your life and you think oh, God. I really learned. Something there. I wouldn't wanna do that again. But it really changed my life. I mean, sometimes it can really destroy, you know, an encounter with the truth, and you never really recover. But now and then something comes along and straightens you out. And a lot of you has to go a lot has to burn away. And, and I suppose in some sense, the ideas that everything about you, that isn't worthy is to be put into the flames, and that's. That's another reason to be not so casual about claiming what you believe because it isn't something that you undertake with. Outdo caution. I learned when I was kid about twenty five or so little older than kid that almost everything that I said, was one form of lie or another. And I wasn't any worse, I would say that the people that I was associated with or any better. And, and the lies were manifold they were attempts to win arguments for the sake of winning the argument that might be one attempts to indicate my intellectual prowess, when there were competitions of that sort, maybe just the, the sheer pleasure of engaging in an intellectual argument and winning. My inability to distinguish between ideas that I had read and, and incorporated because I had read, but had realized that I had yet earned the right to use all of that. And you know I had this experience that lasted a long time. I would say it's really never gone away that and I think this was the awakening of my conscience, essentially. And I didn't realize this until much later when I was reading Socrates apology, this voice for lack of a better word made itself, manifest inside me. And it said, every time I said something that wasn't true. And that's usually what it said. That's true. You don't believe that. Or or there was a sensation that was associated with I don't think this is that uncommon. You know, I asked my psychology classes for many years in row, if they had an experience this experience that they had a voice in their head. Let's say it's a metaphor or a feeling that communicated to them win. They were about to do something wrong. And it was universally the case that people agreed with one of those statements, or another and the other thing I would ask is well, do you always listen to it? And of course, the answered that was. Definitely. No. But that's also very interesting. You know that you can have this faculty, this conscience seems to me to be very tightly associated with the idea of free will is that you can have this internal voice Damon the root word for democracy. Oh, yes. I didn't finish that story. So the yes. Well, it's important. Well, so soccer Damon told him it was his moral guide, and democracy appears to be predicated on the idea that the polity will function if people attend to their consciences. That's the that's the that's the overlap of those conceptualization 's. And that's that's well, first of all, I think that's the case. Makes model logical sense. I mean, if we assume that the political state is something like the emergent consequence of the decision of all its citizens. We would assume that the wiser the decisions of the citizens, the more upright and functional the state. I can't see how it could be any other way. And perhaps those who are the most upright listened to their conscious. Consciences more carefully even play a disproportionately powerful role. It's certainly possible. So anyways. Back to truth. Well, I learned that. So much of what I was doing was false. And I think I learned this, there was a reason that this came to me. So clearly I was trying to understand. Why people did terrible things and I was really concentrating on the terrible terrible things that people do. I was interested in. Our Schmitz, for example, and not in not as a political phenomenon, but as a as a psychological phenomenon I was curious about how you could be off guard, and I wasn't really curious about how you could be one because you could be, what course I was more curious about how I could be one being such a good person as I thought I was. And but I also knew that people many people did many terrible things during the twentieth, century. And the idea that I was somehow better than them or that I should assume a priority that I was better than them. And that I wouldn't have made the same choices or worse had I been in the same situation was very, very, very dangerous supposition. And in fact, sufficiently dangerous supposition to bring about the very danger that I assumed was worth voiding. I had this idea that what had happened, especially in Nazi Germany, but also in the. Soviet Union shouldn't happen again, that what we needed to do because of what happened in the twentieth century, especially because we also managed to create hydrogen bombs that it was an and that we have become so technologically, powerful that there wasn't time for that anymore that time for that was over and that we really needed to understand why it happened. And that perhaps, we could go deep enough in that understanding, which is, I think what happens when you go deep and understanding so that you could stop it. Because if you if you understand per maybe you can solve it. You know and, and. At least in part, I came to believe that the problem was as soldier and it's and said that the problem is that the line between good and evil runs down every human heart, and I'd read it was reading you at the same time, you know, and he believed that the human soul was a tree whose roots grew all the way to hell. And believed also that in the full investigation of the shadow, which was the dark side of the human psyche. Was it was bottomless essentially that it was like an experience of hell and that also struck me as true? And that the way to stop those sorts of things from happening was to stop yourself from being the sort of person who would do it, who would even start to do it because the other thing you learn when you learn about atrocities of that sort you could read ordinary men, by the way, which is an unbelievably great study of exactly this sort of nominates on my book. List on my website. It's about a group of German policemen who were turned into brutal murderers over a period of months when they went behind when they went into Poland after the Germans marched and they were just ordinary middle class men, and they weren't forced into this, by their leadership, by the way, either, which is one of the things that makes the book, so interesting. So. For me. It was a matter of understanding that if we want this sort of thing to not happen anymore, then we have to start to become the sort of people who wouldn't do it seems rather self evident all things considered unless you believe that we're the pawns of social forces, for example, like the marxists do. And I don't believe that because we're also the creator of social forces, and we're also capable of standing up to social forces, because I would say the individual is more powerful than the social force all things considered. Interestingly enough that the way to stop such things to from happening, the way to remember, properly is to understand that. That you could do it. That you could do those terrible things because the people who did them were like you. And the way out of that is to stop being like that. And the way you stop being like that is well, at least in part by stock by ceasing to tell yourself lies that you don't believe in, and that, you know, you shouldn't act out and that's made a huge difference in my life for better for worse. I mean it was very uncanny experience. I would say because it's very dis- -combobulate thing too. Experience yourself as. Fragmented enough. So that much of what you do in say is actually false. It's a lot of work to clean that up a lot. But the consequences are in principle. Worthwhile. And so that was part of. Understanding that was part of what drove me towards clinical psychology, say, in a way from political science and law from politics in general, because I started to believe that, and I think this is the great western idea. Which people were quite irritated about by the way on QNA last night, as well that the proper forward for the redemption of the individual and for mankind as a whole is, as a consequence of the redemption of each individual, and I truly believe that and I believe that that occurs as a consequence of. Adherence to the truth and courage in the face of being that's rule one, right? Stand up straight with your shoulders back is to take on the onslaught and to enter the contentious ring and to do your to do and to do more than your best because your best isn't enough because your best isn't as good as you could be have to push yourself past that. And that's as far as I can tell where you find what you need in life. You find the meaning that sustains you in life. And you find the patterns of action that redeem the world, both at the same time life is very difficult business. It's fatal and it's full of suffering. And it's and it's full of betrayal, and malevolence. There's nothing about it. That's trivial. It's all profound. And in order to find your way through all of that. That, that capacity for hellish experience. Let's say you need to develop a relationship with something that's profound, and you can have that capacity. And what could be more profound than the truth? And what would you rather have on your side, and you might say, well, that's obvious. And of course, everyone should do that. And then you need to know why you don't answer is well, sort of encapsulated in this first amusing question, don't. Thank you for in lightning, my soul. The burns are still healing. It's like, well Newell, there's no shortage of deadwood burn off and. And there's no shortage of pain when the dead wood burns off. And that's what makes people afraid of the truth. You know. Maybe that's why Moses encountered God in burning Bush, who the hell knows. But there's something about that idea that seems to me to be the case. And so. What's the decision that you make? No, you decide to believe, you know, it's a risk an existential risk to active faith. You believe that the truth can set you free. You believe that people have an intrinsic divinity about, those soul, you decide that you're going to live in that manner, and that you're going to let everything about yourself that isn't worthy of that goal die. And that might be almost everything that you are. And that's a terrible thing to contemplate. The only thing that's worse. I would say is the alternative because the alternative is. This sorts of hell's that we managed to produce around, and that we produced with particular expertise during the totalitarian regimes of the twentieth century. And it would be a good thing if we decided collectively and individually not go back there again. Thank you. If you found this conversation meaningful, you might think about baking dad's books maps of meaning the architecture, belief or is newer bestseller, while rules for life, an antidote to chaos. Both of these works del much deeper into the topics. Covered in the George V Peterson podcast. See Jordan Peterson dot com for audio book, and text links pick up the books at your favorite bookseller. I really hope you enjoyed this podcast if you did, please leave a rating at apple podcasts. Comment review share this episode with a friend. If you didn't don't leave any ratings next podcast is going to be a continuation of this commentary on dad's believe in God and discussion with Dennis Prager. You also on God hope you enjoy it hope you learned something hope you have a wonderful week. Follow me on my YouTube channel Jordan Peterson on Twitter at Jordan Peterson on Facebook at Dr Jordan Peterson and Instagram Jordan dog be Peterson details on this show access to my blog information about tour dates and other events. And my list of recommended books can be found on my website, Jordan Peterson dot com. My online writing programs designed to help people straighten out their pasts understand themselves in the present, and develop a sophisticated vision and strategy for the future can be found itself, offering dot com that self authoring dot com. Westwood One podcast network.

Socrates Dr Jordan Peterson Harry Damon murder Carl Young Peterson Sydney club of Rome US Dostoevsky Marx Jordan Germany Birch Nietzsche Willis Dr Peterson Landau
My Pen of Light - Part Two

The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast

55:46 min | 6 months ago

My Pen of Light - Part Two

"Welcome to episode fifty. One of the Jordan Peterson podcast. I'm Michaela Peterson Jordan's daughter. I hope you enjoy this episode. It's called my pen of light part two and was recorded in Christchurch New Zealand on February Twentieth Twenty Nineteen. How about some good news for you? Dad's recovering still and I actually think he'll be back round and online in the next month. That's a hopeful estimate. But it's been amazing to watch. I hope you're out there staying positive given what's going on. There's a lot of uncertainty right now but I have a positive outlook. Whatever that's worth. China and Korea look a lot better and I think that kind of shows us what's going to happen here. It looks like we're in for a rough time for the next FEW MONTHS. And then we'll bounce back stronger than ever my family. My Dad were self quarantined in Florida. We're lucky to be here. We haven't driven each other mad yet either or matter than we already are. That is so stay positive. Enjoy this podcast and if you missed the first part of this lecture check out. Last week's podcast sleep is one of the most important things we can do our health. I can't think very well if they don't get enough sleep neither. Can anyone really. Apparently a lack of sleep is equivalent in brain talk society to alcohol this New Year. I've made it a goal to increase my sleep quality and that starts with the mattress. This is why choose helixsleep. They're the number one rated mattress by G. Q. And wired and CNN called it the most comfortable mattress they've ever slept on. Just go to helixsleep dot com slash Jordan. Take their two minute sleep quiz. And they'll match you to customize mattress that will give you the best sleep of your life. Start Your New Year's off right by giving yourself the rest you deserve right now. Helix's offering up to two hundred dollars off all matches orders at helixsleep dot com slash Jordan. 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My Pen of light. Art to Jordan Peterson. Twelve rules for life lecture. I think I'll all tell you to more. There's quite a few of these. There's about thirty of them but I'm going to obviously not going to get through thirty. That's just not going to happen. So but that's okay. Let's do a couple more. Here's one that I like. What shall I do with a lying man? Let him speak so that he may reveal himself. Well that's a free speech issue as far as I'm concerned and I think it's the reason that free speech is so necessary. It's like while on the one hand part of the reason. That speech is free. Not that it's not without costs. That isn't what it means is that it's it's that you have the right to listen to someone else you know. And that's actually really useful because you're just not nearly as smart as you might be and someone that you don't even like might tell you something you really need to know and so the Americans have really done a good job of delineating this because they made compelled speech illegal in the United States in the nineteen forties and part of the reason for that and compelled speech was required by the government that you use certain forms of discourse which was something I was objecting to when that became law in Canada a couple of years ago and their argument was well. You know none of us are the smart as we could be. And and so if there's a fair bit of public discourse even among people who hold clashing views even among people who have a fair bit of enmity in their heart. There's always the possibility that one of us will pick up some sliver of information that TURNS OUT TO BE CRUCIAL. And there's no way that the state should deny us the possibility that that might happen. And so that's worth thinking about. It's related to rule nine in my book. Which is assumed the person you're listening to might know something that you don't you know which you don't have to do if you think you are. Renault everything but which you do need to. Do you think that there are some things that you need to learn? And then the other thing with regards to people who lie is that well. Maybe we could say well. There should be no fake news. There's no lies in the news. It's like forget that that's that's never ever going never happened. And it's never going to happen because well it's not that easy to separate the wheat from the chaff and it's hard to tell if someone's willfully blind your ignorant or biased or consciously lying or unconscious lying or or tired that day or or under pressure. God only knows. There's all sorts of reasons for communicating poorly. So you can't regulate all that but you could believe that the truth will out over time you know and that what is a lie. If it's allowed to manifest itself will become clear to people as a lie and then to become known as ally and then to be discarded and there's another section for Matthew didn't really expect to read all of these sections for Matthew today but guess that's how it goes wrong. What shall I do with allying man? Let him speak so that he may reveal himself. You shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns or figs of thistles even so every good tree bring forth good fruit but a corrupt trie brings forth evil fruit. Good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit and neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit every tree that bring us not forth. Good fruit is wound down and cast into the fire out to rough one man and yeah well you see this is true. It's so true it's like God you know another thing you learned from doing psychotherapy you know. People are having a miserable time of it for one reason or another and you know. Maybe they're not getting along with their family and and and I'm not talking about physiological illness and bad luck. Leave those aside and you start talking about it and you dig and you dig and you dig. And sometimes it's months and weeks weeks and months of digging or maybe even years and then you get to the bottom and find some ugly little secret. You know that's been part of the family. Maybe for a couple of generations or part of this person's memory structure for a couple of decades and they finally get to the horrible bottom of it you know and they find out that there's something deceptive and and wrong some decision. They made that put their life in a bad direction. And that's caused them grief and misery every sense and they made forgotten even that they made that decision. You know and the truth of the matter is that when you do act in deceitful manner you were the structure of the reality around you and within you how could it be otherwise. Because that's very definition of deceit. And then if you do enough of that it takes your life apart piece by piece. And that's what that phrase means that it'll be hewn down. Is that if you build your life on if you if you build your house on sand if you deceive yourself and other people then you will absolutely paid for that in every possible way and one of the things that I have learned as a clinical psychologist. That certainly terrified me and continues to terrify me. Is that you never get away with anything. I've never seen anyone in my clinical practice or in my life when I really look into things and I can look into things quite deeply if I choose to. I've never seen anyone ever get away with anything and it's not that surprising because like what do you expect? You're going to twist the fabric of reality to suit your current self interest and that's going to hold it's going to be you against the fabric of reality and you're gonNA come out as the victor. I mean that's that's well it's absurd. It's ridiculous it's arrogant itself serving. It's naive and besides that no one even believes it. So what shall I do with allying man? Let him speak so that he may reveal himself by their fruits. You shall know them yes well. That's a very good reason for for for free speech and then this is the last one I would say it will deal with today. How shall I deal with the enlightened? One replace him with the True Seeker of enlightenment. I really liked that one. It's kind of a Buddhist question. Answer there then you meet someone who claims perhaps to be enlightened and and and maybe eat now and then you even think you're that one and it's a mistake because you can't be that one because you don't know everything or or worse you hardly knew anything and and the more you learn the more you know you don't know anything and also the other thing you learn is that you can't do things only by yourself. You know so even if you were the enlightened one. Buddha even Buddha came back to help everyone else become enlightened because just being enlightened on his own. Didn't seem to be good enough even if you were the enlightened one which you aren't you need other people around and so and so but there is an idea of enlightenment knowing that it's something we should pursue and so. What's the idea that you encountered the enlightened one? This is a book called if you meet the Buddha on the road kill him which is sixty s book which is hardly surprising but it kind of it kind of reflects. The same idea said someone who's enlightened isn't enlightened because they know they're enlightened because they're seeking it's because they know they don't know that's the old socratic idea right is that so socrates was regarded as the whitest per person in in Greece. Because he knew that he didn't know anything and and the answer to that the reason that that's so useful is that instead of assuming that you know and that's good enough win. It isn't given that your life is a mess and the lives of people around. You are a mess and the world's in a mess which means that you don't know because it wouldn't be a mess if you knew enough then you could start looking at what you didn't know and you could start seeking out what you still needed to know and you could start to spend more attention paying. You could start to pay more attention onto what it was about you that was insufficient and lacking even by your own standards. And then you could start to learn and grow and then by participating in that process of letting go of what about. You isn't valid useful and letting that die letting that burn off and letting what's new about you emerge and transform continually which is something that human beings have the capability of doing then. You're on the pathway. To enlightenment you know and that in some sense is close to enlightenment as you get is that you're a seeker of knowledge and not the person that holds the knowledge which which is why at least in part. I'm not a fan of ideologues because they tend to know about five things and then assume that the entire world can be crammed into the space defined by those five things. And that's just not the case it's much better to to adopt a questioning attitude towards the world in to understand that because everything isn't the way that it should be your life and your family's lives in the lives of your community that that means that you are in some sense fundamentally insufficient ignorant and that as a consequence what you need to do is to admit to what's wrong and to change and to learn and that that's the proper pathway forward and I would hope that that's what we're doing when we have conversations like this and I'm also hoping that the reason that these conversations which I've had about one hundred and forty places as I said now with about three hundred thousand people are actually popular as as they are popular on Youtube because people are realizing noticing hoping that there are things they don't know and it's important that they don't know them and that there are things that they could know that are also important to know which implies that there are important things to know and important things to do and that all seems to me to be entirely correct so well and so that that's what I'm hoping that that people will do is they'll let's say they'll ask themselves the right questions. It's like my life isn't what should be my family's life isn't what it should be and my culture isn't what it should be. Why well maybe? That's on me your cornerstone of your community. That's why you vote. Our culture is decided that each of us has whatever it takes that spark of divinity that enables us to steer this ship of state properly that that that that capacity relies on our own intrinsic wisdom. And you know that you're responsible for yourself and for your family and that you could be responsible for your community. Think well it's not what it should be bothering me. Maybe it's bothering me so much that I can hardly stand being alive. That's despair you think. Well what's the way out of the despair? It's like well. Maybe I'm doing some wrong. First of all what's the probability of that it's like one hundred percent? You can be absolutely certain if you need certainty. There's one there's at least one thing that you're doing wrong is a lot bigger than that and of those things that you're doing wrong. There's probably a couple of things that you could stop doing wrong that you would stop doing wrong. You know and then maybe might ask yourself this rule six. Put Your House in perfect order before you criticize the world. It's like okay. Everything's not to my satisfaction. But I'm doing some things wrong. Maybe before I complain. I'll stop doing those things wrong and just see what happens. Maybe things will improve. I would say well. That's confession that's atonement. That's redemption. That's all of that. It's like God only knows what your life would be like if you stop doing the things that you need to be wrong. It's a really good start and it's also the case. You know that you stop doing the things that you know to be wrong. That's disciplinary practice. That's penitential chastisement. Then all of a sudden you can start to see the things that you should do that you should do. That are good and then God only knows what you can manage. You know. I mean one thing. I learned from the Twentieth Century From Reading Twentieth Century. History was that there is absolutely no limit to how much hail you can create around yourself. That's why hells a bottomless pit. I don't care how terrible it is where you are. There is a stupid thing that you could willfully do or blindly. Do that would make it worse. And so there's a hail underneath that hell and there's another one underneath there and there's no bottom and what I also learned. I think as a consequence of that was that the reverse was also the case that you know the world is structured in that sort of moral hierarchy. And then as you start to do things that are good and put your life together. Then the probability that you'll do something good again maybe better increases and then maybe something even better and then maybe something even better. It isn't obvious to me that just as there's no bottom to hell that there's any top to heaven and it seems to me that that's a good thing to know. It's a good thing to think about whether I don't have to think about it. I mean I don't know anybody really who I've ever had a serious conversation. Who would deny the fact that there isn't a situation they can be in that so bad that there isn't something stupid they can do. That would make it worse. I mean virtually. Everyone agrees with that. And if that's the truth and the opposite has to be the truth or if there's a down like that which there clearly is there has to be an up in the opposite direction. Whatever that opposite direct direction is and I think that's why we have to understand the world as a as a moral place as a place that is dependent for the manner in which it manifests on the quality of our moral decisions and ask ourselves well if the world isn't everything that it should be by our own standards that we're and unhappy and nihilistic and cruel resentful because of that then perhaps the appropriate place to start is with the kind of humility that allows you to ask the question properly which is well am I doing. Am I doing something wrong? And if so God grant me the four Tude to set it right before a judge and then to see. That's faith. Do you believe in truth. And do you believe in courage is like well? What happens if you manifest that in the world? Well at least it's going to be less like hell. That's something and God only knows where you could end up. Well so that's some of the things I learned when I was playing with my pin of light. Okay so now but not for very long. Because I talked longer than I was supposed to. I'm going to answer some questions so John. Will you set the timer again? I suppose I'm out of question time as well already. What have we got twenty? Excellent all right so you've submitted a number of questions and so I'm going to go through them and see what I can. I can come up and see if that's useful. Start a few here. This is a good one Muslims. Start with this are you okay. Yeah and it's all capped so so. This is anonymous and nine people up voted. This probably more since seven twenty three and I don't bloody well no I mean. Sometimes I guess and sometimes I think no I mean I think in some profound ways. No because there's plenty I have to learn and plenty. I have to do better if you mean by. And then it might be political. Are you okay? It's like not everybody thinks so? So you know and and I could be wrong although God. It's hard for me to believe that I'm as wrong as the people who think I'm wrong are and then I guess the other issue is are you okay. Well I have the odd health problem which I'm trying to keep under control but it seems to be working fairly well and I seemed to be okay enough so that I can continue doing whatever it is that I'm doing and what I'm doing as far as I'm concerned is that I am trying see. I believe that onto. I'll tell you this and then you can decide if I'm okay because you know God who knows. I believe that the way that we look at the world we look at the world through a story. We can't help it. That's the way our our psyches are structured. That's the way our cycle. That's that's the nature of our cycle physiological. Being there's no way out of the story which is why we love stories so much and why we tell them and and why we teach children with stories and why we watched them for entertainment and and and where we love them. Because we're in a story and if you're not an story then you're in trouble man. You're you're you're actually. You're just in a different kind of story. You're in his ear and a story about chaos and disarray and that's the story of the desert and sometimes it's the story of Hell and those aren't good stories and so I don't even think you have the option of being in a story or not. You have the option of being in a good story or a bad story and a bad story can be very bad. Indeed our cultures predicated on a story and it sort of sits between what we know in what we don't know you know scientifically advanced as we are technologically intelligent as we are. There's an infinite amount about the nature of being that we don't understand. I mean God it was. What's been ten years since we figured out that we don't know what ninety five percent of the universe is made of dark matter dark energy like that's actually that's actually a fair chunk of reality to just overlook and then not notice you know and so and we also know that our scientific theories as credible as they are tend to become radically revised less rapidly now saying domains like physics. But I suspect. There's still a shocker. To to be found there we're in so we have this technological knowledge but outside that we're ignorant about the fundamental nature of being in the fundamental nature of reality and consciousness and we need a buffer between what we know and what we don't know we need zone. That's sort of that. We sort of know in sort of the dream is the buffer by the way in your own daily life the dream is the buffer between what you know and what you don't know and every night to maintain your sanity you have to move from what you know the conscious world into the dream world and to reemerge from that and if that doesn't happen you lose your sanity so in some sense the sanity of your consciousness is dependent on the insanity of your dreams and the stories of our culture that great underlying stories and Judeo Christian tradition the biblical stories in particular. But not only the biblical stories are the dream in which our culture is embedded. And we've lost relationship with those stories and we can't because our sanity is predicated on their integrity and if we lose the stories then well then we'll end up will end up in a story that none of us want to inhabit. And so what I'm trying to do is to put the judeo-christian story back underneath this substructure of Western culture and so I don't know if that makes me okay or not probably not but but it it's worked for me and it seems to have worked for my family. It seems to be working for people around the world to degree. That's really quite incomprehensible. People write me all the time you know. I did a series on the on the Bible in Genesis Year and a half ago. I think the first lecture. It's got about three million views three hours on the first sentence in genesis it takes a long time to get through the Bible if you spend three hours on each cents but it's really been interesting. The consequence of that man. You wouldn't believe the letters I've got. I've got letters from like groups of Orthodox Jews in Germany and from from monks in like in the orkneys and from lots of Muslims who are watching the the the genesis stories and describing the effects on them and Orthodox Christians in particular seem to be happy with me which is quite a strange thing although I kind of liked their doctrine and Catholics think that I would be a good Catholic if I just smartened up a little bit and Protestants. They've pretty much completely decided. It wasn't necessary to believe in God. So they're ignoring me completely and that's fine but it's very interesting to see the consequences of telling these stories again and watching what happens and to try to bring the abstraction of this story down to Earth so to speak so that people can understand at least insofar as I understand or think I understand what the story is mean. All of that seems to be good. I mean it's it's creating an awful lot of havoc around me especially in the press. Although that's not all that worrisome in some sense especially because it's become dreadfully boring and repetitive after you've been called the full set of thirty names several dozen times in all possible orders the impact decreases substantially one of the funniest days so to speak. I had two days two years ago. It's kind of an indication of what my life was been like. My My son came home one day and I said God Julian. You won't believe what happened today. Said two hundred of my fellow faculty members at the University of Toronto signed a petition requesting that I be dismissed and my union delivered it to the administration without even notifying me and it was Mar Union. You'd think they would have just politely mentioned to me that this was being planned and Julian said. Don't worry about. It was only two hundred people so yeah well think about that. That was the situation at that point. It was like well. It was just two hundred colleagues. That's nothing compared to what sort of tax you've been subject to over the months before that that was funny and then not really and then and then another day. This is a good one. Two articles both came out in the UK press. The same day was written by a Jewish magazine. Which accused me of being Hitler. Essentially or at least put my picture right beside Hitler and talked about how it was kind of like Hitler in various ways. Not just because we were both featherless bipeds either and another all right site the same day detailed out in great detail why. I was a Jewish Schill and I figured well. That's it that's pretty much. We've we've pretty much covered covered the territory it's like it's like Nazi or Jewish Schill. Thought well you know the only possible worse. The only worst possibility would be that I was somehow both at the same time. And you know who knows what kind of goes back to this question about whether or not. I'm okay I guess so. Yeah so. That's that answer. I guess meaning is to be found at the intersection between the known and unknown. Do you think this relates to early attachment? Where a child's main purpose is to push the boundaries Nikita. Asked that and the answer to that is yes exactly. You got it exactly right there. Is this developmental psychologist named now? I can't remember his name. Of course he. He's a Russian. He came up with the concept of the zone of proximal development. Second greatest their Gorski. Yes yes exactly. And so when you hear that people are in the zone. It's a partly influenced by God. Ski and this zone of proximal development is is a place and it's a place that's very much worth knowing it's the place that the Taoists have studied forever and I would also say that it's the Kingdom of God on Earth. That CHRIST STATES. That is there that people don't see. I think these are the same ideas fundamentally zone of proximal so one of the things for God ski noticed. Was that or students of the Gods Ski. I can't remember precisely. Was that when adults talked to children. And they tended to speak to them at a level that slightly exceeded their current level of comprehension. Which is really a cool ability right. Because it's not like you write out a lexicon of your child's vocabulary and then think well here's fifteen extra words that junior should learn today. It's like you don't do. You don't know how you teach your child to talk you just do and but part of the way you do. Is that you you. You don't only say to them things they understand you say things to them that they kind of understand. Pull them forward into what they don't yet know that boundary between chaos and order or between known and unknown and it's the right place to be. It's the exciting place to be because you know then well first of all. That's not good because you don't know enough and something's going to shift around you and reveal your ignorance and then you know you're you're you're in trouble so the problem with tyrannies right. They regulate everything until it's just absolutely rigid and made out of stone and then the ground shifts and everything collapses. There's no flexibility that's not good and if you're out there just in chaos it's nihilistic and you have no direction there's no order well you. You can hardly tolerate that. It's so stressful and so- disorienting. That's no place to even though there's no shortage of what's new out there too much and so what you have to do is to find the boundary. And what's so cool about this and this is this is truly something. That's miracle of sorts. I would say this is from rule. Seven which is do what's meaningful and not. What is expedient. It's pretty damn clear. I would save from the mythological writing and the literary writing and the neuropsychologist neuropsychological investigations conducted by well-qualified human neuro psychologists and animal experimentalist. You have a deep instinct for meaning and for that boundary. So imagine that. It's good to be where you know what you're doing. And so that's a place that's known and the known that place it's like you're around the campfire with your friends. That's the known. It's not the forest outside. It's it's your tribe and and you know that you know where you are because you're joking and you're laughing and you're with people and when you're doing things and when you do them they work and so that's the known the known is the place where when you do things they work and that's kind of a funny place because we don't think of that sort of place as a place because we think sort of geometrically psychological place let's say and it's the place that's very comfortable to be and then there's the place you know you go to a party. It's out of your league in some manner. You don't know anyone there and you're you're under addressed or overdressed and your awkward as Hell and you make a couple of jokes and they fall flat and you just wish that you were not there or maybe even dad. And and that's the unknown. Now it's where what you're doing isn't producing what you want. And you don't want to be there especially you don't want to be there in any radical manner because if you're out where you don't know and you don't know enough then it's fatal and so too far out into the unknown you're done. And so the known has a certain mode of comfort in unknown has a certain amount of discomfort and they both have their disadvantages ones too rigid and the others too chaotic. And so then the question is what do you do that and the answer? Is You find that line right in the middle. That's straight narrow path right that you walk on. And there's chaos on one side and order on the other and you have one foot in order because then you're stable. You know you're secure. You're not you're not pushing yourself so far that you can't tolerate it. There was another question in there about well. How do you know if you're taking on too much responsibility too much? Chaos in your life too much burden. You can't handle it and so you go to pull back because you know you gotta be comforted to some degree you want to have been a routine in your life another thing that with my clinical clients. I always insist on. It's like look man. If you're anxious. Chaotic and nihilistic disorganized its lack put some damn order into your life. Here's some things you could try. How old getting up at the same time every day just as a disciplinary strategy. Pick get time. Maybe it's three in the afternoon like I wouldn't I wouldn't recommend that but it's better three in the afternoon is way better than eleven o'clock one morning and four o'clock the next day and the two o'clock the next day and just you can't live like that. Your Brain Candy. Even organize itself with regards to its fundamental circadian rhythms. If you don't get your sleep wake cycles right. And so like pick a time to get up. That's something that's also something you don't have to think about anymore. He think about every day what time I'm going to get up. It's like Jesus don't you better think about. It's just like bloody well get up. It's eight o'clock get up and go think about something else and then maybe you could think about going to bed at approximately the same time which isn't as important by the way. And then you might think. Well you could probably eat now. And then on something approximating a regular basis and maybe with some other people because we are social eaters and people don't eat well alone and so people kinda think have to eat three meals a day and well maybe three isn't right but zero is wrong and fifty is wrong so threes not bad and I would also recommend which is rule I haven't written about. Which is you should do what everyone else does. Unless you have a very good reason not to well seriously. It's like if you have a good reason. You're that guy man you got some new idea. It's revolutionary it's like. Hey break a rule go ahead. It'll be of benefit to everyone because it's time for that rule to go but if you're not that guy and you're just all over the place haphazardly. Because you have no discipline. It's like you're not a free spirit or free agent or some sort of rebel. You just have no discipline. And you're you're you're you stand in dangerous opposition to the stability of the state it's like so and even if you are going to have a great adventure and do some really different things you know like you're going to put yourself bloody well out there on the edge. I would also say I learned this from young. You should nail down some good habits and a lot of them routines because if you're going to push yourself really hard in one direction and risk exhausting yourself you better make sure that you have some comforting routines and rituals to return to so that you can reconstitute yourself when you've gone a little bit too far out into the unknown so anyways you don't want to be too much in the known because well you don't know everything you need to learn some new things and you don't want to be too far out unknown because it's too damn chaotic. And so you want to be in the middle and you can tell when you're in the middle because you're kind of secure in what you're doing. You're not overwhelmed with anxiety. That's that's a good sorry. You're not overwhelmed with anxiety or negative emotion. You might be a little apprehensive when I come on stage before I come out on stage. I'm a little apprehensive. And that's a good thing because if if I knew this if it become wrote it would've started to become dead. There'd be no animating spirit left in it and so a little anxiety that's okay it wakes up but not too much just just enough to sharpen. Yeah keep you on edge and then you want to be out there and known a fair bit in chaos because well that's exciting you know. We're adventurers US human beings right. We're we go boldly where no man has gone before. That's what we do. We go into known and we find the Dragon. The dreaded beast the terrible Predator that that contains the gold and we'd gather what we can from non known we bring it back and we distributed to the community. That's what we are and you can tell when you're doing that because you're in the right place on that line zone of proximal development where children are when they're pushing the boundaries because that's what they're trying to do well okay. Mom here's boundary. What if I break this rule just a bit one? How about this one just a bit? How about this one my son God he was God that kid he'd find a line and he would just worry that line to death for like two weeks. What can I do this? Can I do this? What about this so like pushing back pushing back pushing back keep them keep them solidified? My wife and I used to talk and say Look Damn Kid getting out of control again. Time to time to crack down on him because he's pushing boundaries too much like okay okay. What are we going to do about this? Don't let your kids do anything that makes you dislike them right. That was the rule. What are we going to do alright? For the next two weeks he was like to when we were doing this. Two and a half get away with anything zero. Every time he breaks a rule. It's like we we stop them so we did that. And it was so weird because he is a tough kid and he's still tough kid and every time. We tightened up the boundary on them. He liked US way better. It was so cool because he was testing for I guess for something he could also admire to some degree right and he's two and a half and like if you're a two and a half and you can push your father over. There's just not much admiration there right. He wants to come up against a wall. Thank oh look walls there okay. Well there's three thousand other directions I can go in. You know. I can't go there. That's not such a big limitation. You know how it is when kids are learning to walk you know they stand up underneath a table and bang. It's like an it's painful and you. What do you go by an adjustable table? You know you notice that they do that. Like twice and because the table doesn't negotiate. They don't do that anymore after twice. It's like the table is like a wall. Well so anyways yes. Children do find that place to push the limits and the thing is they wanna find the limits you know and the limit is partly encouragement of their continued growth but also the walls around them that need to be there so that they can feel secure enough to play. And you can tell. Actually if you've got the balance between chaos and order proper in your house then your children will play because play only emerges. It's a very fragile mile psycho physiological process very necessary one but it can be suppressed by virtually any other emotional or motivational state. And so if you've got your house set up properly and I do believe that this is a particularly important function of fathers. If you've got your house set up properly it's secure enough so that the children can risk playing inside the house and they really need to play. And when they're playing they are on the border between order and chaos and they need that and it's what it's what pushes their development forward and it's the same with us as adults we have this instinct for meaning save. What's meaningful well? Let's say well doing what you can do. That can be meaningful. But it's not enough because you wanNA stretch yourself you know if you're really good at your job but it's the same old thing every day. There's something about that that makes you feel like there's a lack you want. You want to be good at it but you WANNA be getting better at it. And that's that line and you have an instinct for meaning the instinct for meaning puts you there. It puts you where you're good at something or as good as you can be but now you're pushing yourself beyond what you're good at. At a rate that exhilarates you makes you anxious enough to be awake but keeps you intensely engaged and that's meaning you and that's an instinct it's the instinct of it's the instinct of transformation and it's not something arbitrary. You know you hear. Well what's the meaning of life? It's like well it's something invented it's like no it's not there's no evidence for that they evidences that it's something that's discovered and of the things. That's very interesting to do. If you're interested in meaning is to watch yourself for a couple of weeks and say well. You're kinda miserable. You're not having such a great time of it and maybe you should find out if you're sick because sometimes that can contribute to that. But let's say you're not it's like watch yourself you'll find that some period of time over the next two weeks you'll be engaged in something. You don't time you won't notice. The time is ticking by slowly you'll be engaged as if what you're doing is meaningful. And who knows what it'll be might be a conversation might be encountering someone that you love that. You didn't even know you loved. It might be reading. Something might be a video game. It might be a hobby got. It might be shopping for clothes. Who cleaning up your room messing up your room. I don't know whatever but you'll find that there will be periods of time when you're where you should be doing what you should be doing and that will be marked by that process of engagement. Then the trick is to notice and then to think okay. What the hell did I do to get here like? What were the preconditions? I'm in the right place all of a sudden I'm halfway between chaos and order and I'm not sure how I got here. I need to meditate on what I did that. Enabled me to be in this place and now. I have to figure out how to be here longer. Periods of time and then the trick is to practice so that you're there more and more and more and more and more and more and more of the time and then you're in the right place at the right time and then things justify themselves right because you have that ongoing sense of intrinsic meaning that is associated. Exactly with children's natural tendency to learn in progress and that has exactly the same function for you and your your nervous system is set up to reward you with psychological stability and with engagement in life when you positioned yourself personally and socially in a place where you're making the most of what you've got and you're getting better at it all the time and that way you serve yourself in the optimal way and you serve your family in the optimal way because we're social creatures and perhaps you serve your cultural in the optimal way all of those things stack up nicely together because we are social beings and then you're in a state of harmony with the structure of the world and it works. Psychologically because it's meaningful psychologically constrain suffering and and adds positive engagement and it also works collectively and so it's a hell of a thing to know especially when you know that it's an instinct and not merely something that's arbitrary or constructed something that you can discover if you're careful enough to attend and to notice not to think about it but attend you know there's a difference the Egyptians the worship the eye of horace and that was the I paid attention paid attention to to willful blindness into evil and it was. The redemptive is far as they were concerned. And the idea that the I is redemptive is a very old idea. And it's party there because you can learn to be where you should be by paying attention and it's not the same thing as thinking you pay attention first and then you think it's like Oh look what I'm doing is working. There are characteristics of this place. It's desirable place. There are characteristics of. There's ways I have to act in order to maintain this. What exactly are they well? That's a humble question too because it means that you don't know right you didn't know who you were. You didn't know that was the place you needed it to be. You're not sure how to be there. But you can learn. And you set things in order in kind of harmonious order and it's an order that well it's it's the the music of the spheres. It's the proper order the world. It's the music speaks of when it when it lays everything out in its ordered harmony and patterns. Why people like music? It speaks of that of being in that place. It's why we play music and churches and why there's something why there's something of religious deeply religious significance and meaning about music even for people that are secular it speaks of that possibility of order and so and so yes that's why children pushed the limits in. And why they need to find them as well and also to be encouraged to experiment with them right to dance on that edge. My son got really good at it with his pushiness. You know because he was one of those kids that tough kid. He'd worry that line worry the line worry the line they wanted to know exactly what? The damn rule was not vaguely precisely. What can I get away with you? Know and we'd push back against him and he got unbelievably socially facile. He's very very good with people because he can read. Subtle social cues charged with him. The rule was funnies good. But don't push it right and that's a nice line right to be witty and to be playful and to be able to tease but not to shift over into arrogance or cruelty or malicious teasing or any of that. You get your kid on that line. It's a really tight line. And then they're popular and people like them and their lives expand nicely and hopefully you can also stand to have them around which is also something that still characterizes my relationship with my son thank God so well guys. That's that's pretty much all ask sensor one more. Have you got advice for why young people should focus on having a family? My wife and I thirty three wish. We had a kid when we met seven years ago rather than trying. Now well thirty. Three's not too bad so you know. Good luck to you. That's the first thing I would say. I would also say that one couple in three over thirty have fertility problems defined as inability to conceive wind desiring to do so after one year. And that's something that no-one taught because our culture is blind in in remarkable ways. You should focus on having a family when you're young if you can. Because that's when you're the most fertile. So that's that's basically that and fertility rates tend to decline rather precipitously especially in women from the ages of thirty onward and the Downhill. Track from thirty to forty is pretty damn steep and you hear about assisted reproductive technologies. But that's a hell of a road to go down because embitterment about children during your twenties and you decided thirty that it's time to start a family and then you discover that you can't and you spend several hundred thousand dollars or at least tens of thousands of dollars wandering down the assisted fertilization root for like a decade and that doesn't work that's roughly equivalent. I would say misery to having a pretty damn serious disease or undergoing a very bad lawsuit. It's not something I would recommend and you know it is the case that life is short. That's for sure and that you have to get things together and get moving quickly and so I would say wins a good time to have a baby. Well never right well. Obviously I mean of all the stupid things you could possibly do is to saddle yourself with the three hundred fifty thousand dollar debt. That isn't going to leave for eighteen years right. This is going to occupy every second of your time. It's like an interfere with your ability to make a living as well. It's like wins a good time to do that. That well never but but on the opposite side is well. What do you do in your life? You know you have an intimate relationship. You have a family. You contribute to your community with your career your job and what you do outside of that and and that's life man that's your life though those three things like you know there's decorations on the side. There's adventure travel and that sort of thing but fundamentally that's that and I would say don't miss it especially with young children because young children you don't have them for very long. It's not a very long period of your life and it's a delightful period. And if you miss it you don't get it back and so if you're thirty three good luck you know not so old you you'll probably be okay if you're wondering whether or not you should have a child. The answer is as I said. Not If you have any sense but definitely you should because that's life and that's a good place to stop. Thank you very much. Everyone it was a pleasure to be here and your lovely little town. I hope you get the earthquake. Damage fixed up. It's terrible to see that. But maybe you'll be able to build something spectacular. On the runes. Good night if you found this conversation meaningful you might think about picking up. Dad's books maps of meaning the architecture of belief or is newer bestseller twelve rules for life in antidote to chaos. Both of these works stealth much deeper into the topics covered Jordan. V Peterson. Podcast see Jordan. Me Peterson Dot Com for audio book and text links or pick up the books at your favorite bookseller remember to check out Jordan. Be Peterson Dot com slash personality for information on his new course TAG Jordan Orion. Instagram share your results from discovering personality. Course and if you're curious why you're quarantine buddy is driving you crazy. Checkout UNDERSTAND MYSELF DOT COM to learn more about their personality. I really hope you enjoyed this. Podcast talking next week Balmy on my youtube channel Jordan Peterson on twitter. At Jordan Peterson on facebook at Dr Jordan Peterson and an instagram Jordan. Darby Dot Peterson details on this show access to my blog. Information about my tour dates other events and my list of recommended books can be found on my website. Jordan PETERSON DOT com. My online writing programs designed to help people straighten out their pasts understand themselves in the present and develop a sophisticated vision and strategy for the feature can be found itself offering dot com that self authoring dot com from the Westwood. One podcast network.

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From The Moore Theatre in Seattle, WA

The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast

1:59:38 hr | 1 year ago

From The Moore Theatre in Seattle, WA

"Welcome to the first episode of season. Two of the Jordan Peterson podcast. My name is Michaela Peterson. And I've been working with my dad for the last year. We've decided to do this podcast is a joint project because we thought it might be something fun and meaningful to do together. For this episode. We're presenting dad's twelve rules for life to our lecture at the Moore theatre in Seattle on June twenty-first twenty eighteen collector covers the evolution of religious thinking. True, human universal. Everyone has to deal with the problem value. Everyone has to determine what is of more or less importance. What's a priority, and what is not for the can't act or even perceive? So the problem value house to be solved or at least a dress by everyone. And that's what makes it a universal issue. Deep enough to play a biological as well as social role sell dad, what goes into the prep for lecture are usually. You sit backstage for about forty five minutes to an hour sometimes sleeping a little bit. Sometimes not I usually try to pick a problem of some significance that I've been working on that's related to my book. So the problem has to be stateable might be the problem of while, for example, one of the most recent lectures, I did was on why don't like to answer the question. Whether or not I believe in God. So that's a specific problem. Then I put together a story that's composed of seven or eight. Let's say episodes from the collection of stories that I have in mind and formulate a an argument that allows me to walk through addressing the problem. And then I go on stage. And I'm I try to address the problem. It's not like I know that answer to the problem to begin with because otherwise it's not a real problem. So part of what makes the lectures compelling. The fact that it's an actual problem that I'm working on that. I'm trying to do something new, and it's not obvious to me that I'm going to come up with a coherent. Answer. So that's the prep. You stock up on Perrier before you head out on stage, though. Yeah. My stalk on period before he had up states. That's the other thing. That's my that's my special treatment for being the the headliner of the show. I think I have less of request than any head lenders. They've ever had any of these stages because all I ask for his. Markley water. And then I usually have forty bottles of it on a forty two inch TV or seventy dollars. Just no water. Just some water any highlights from the stop and Seattle. Well, I was preparing for my conversation with Sam Harris on religion. And so it gave me an opportunity to start to continue to think through some of the things that I wanted to talk to him about. Mean one of the biggest differences, I have with Sam is the degree to which the world that we perceive is pre processed before you perceive it or the world that is pre processed before you perceive it for me, you have to run the world that you perceive through a network of value that basically has a religious structure, and that's part of the argument that I was laying out with with Sam and the Seattle lecture gave me an opportunity to clarify that a little bit more before. I went to meet him in Vancouver. When we return Dr Peterson's lecture from Seattle. Admit it. You think that cybercrime is something that happens to other people? You may think that no one wants your data or that. Hackers. Can't grab your passwords or credit card details, but you'd be wrong stealing data from unsuspecting people on public wifi is one of the simplest and cheapest ways for hackers to make money when you leave your internet connection unencrypted, you might as well be writing your passwords credit card numbers on a huge billboard for the rest of the world to see. That's why I decided to take action to protect myself from cybercriminals use express VPN express VPN secures an anonymous as your internet browsing by encrypting your data in hiding your public IP address express VPN has easy use apps that run seamlessly in the background of your computer phone tablet, turning on express VPN protection. Only takes one click using express VPN I can safely serve on public wifi without being snooped on or having my personal data stolen for less than seven dollars a month. You can get the same express VPN. Protection that I have expressed VPN is rated the number one VPN service by tech radar and comes with a thirty day money back guarantee. Protect your online activity today and find out how you can get three months free at express VPN dot com slash Jordan. That's E X P R E S S VPN dot com slash Jordan for three months free with a one year pocket. Visit express VPN dot less Jordan to learn more. What I mostly use express VPN for is getting American net flicks on my computer because the Canadian Netflix is kind of the worst so protect your IP safely surf the web and possibly find better net. Flex express VPN dot less Jordan to learn more. When it's time to make a higher for your small business naturally. You wanna find the best person for the job odds are that person is on Lincoln? I started working for my dad, January twenty eight teen technically I started working for him about six months before that doing part. Time work, but I started full-time January twenty eight teen when his schedule got insanely complicated. Mostly after the Cathy Newman interview, but also because his book started selling insanely, well, my job is become more and more complex, and I've had to hire a number of people finding people who can do what you want them to do is. Actually, extremely difficult. Interviews aren't always as useful as you Decem. They are Lincoln jobs makes it easy to get matched. With quality candidates who make the most sense for your role. It's much more useful than advertising different way. It matches U2. applicants based on skills and background but also on their interests activities in passions. It does a lot of the sorting for you. So you get a group of the most relevant and qualified candidates for the role sorting through applicants is extremely time consuming and linked in really helps you speed things up. I'm definitely going to be using it next time. I have to hire somebody and today we have a deal for your first job post post a job today at Lincoln dot com slash Jordan and get fifty dollars off your first job post. That's Lincoln dot com slash Jordan. Terms and conditions apply. Dad is going to be debating Slava, Jack April nineteenth at seven thirty pm. ESPN Toronto take sold out at Sony's enter incredibly fast. So were offering a livestream for the first time. Hopefully, it'll go, well, we figured people who aren't in Toronto would wanna chance to see the debate. Plus a lot of fans are European obviously the debates called happiness, Marxism versus capitalism and should be extremely interesting. Take will be sold at Jordan Peterson dot com starting April. First sign up on his blog for his mailing list at Jordan Peterson dot com and you'll be notified when tickets are available. Please welcome. My father Dr Jordan Peterson. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you very much. Now. There we go. Everyone can hear me. So that's good. Hopefully. So I always use these lectures has an opportunity to extend what I'm thinking and. I'm going to do that probably more tonight than I usually do. I think Dave mentioned that I'm going to see Sam Harris in Vancouver for two days. And so yeah. And so I've been I've been reading a lot partly what Sam wrote and also. Auxiliary material trying to figure out exactly what his claims are. And and so that I can outline the arguments. See where we agree. See where we disagree? See where we can have a productive conversation and. What I'm gonna do tonight, partly as a consequence of that. Because I'm always working on some problem while I'm doing this tour, but I would say more generally, it's part of intellectual life to have a problem that you're working on to try to make clear, and this is one of the problems that I was trying to work out at least in part when I was writing twelve rules for lights and also my earlier book maps of meaning which is now out in audio version, by the way was published in June twelfth. So about a week ago. And so if you like twelve rules for life. If you found it useful. I don't think light is rated the right term. I think if you found it useful. And if it was helpful to you, then you might wanna think about taking a listen to maps of meaning which is much harder. But but contains a lot more information. Yeah. That's the right way of thinking about it and see what I've been trying to figure out work on over the last thirty years or so is I think the right way of thinking about it. And this is partly what I'm going to discuss with Sam is the relationship between facts and values, and it's a very very tricky relationship. And it's it's very difficult to get right? So I'm gonna try walking through that tonight. I'm going to lecture about the evolution of religious thinking. I think is if you're thinking about the problem statement tonight. That's it has how did how did religious thinking develop. And I'm trying to take that seriously. Not a lot of what happens with a lot of evolutionary biologists types as they take complex human phenomena, like language or music or art or literature or religious thinking for that matter, and they tend to consider it like a secondary spin off of some more fundamental issue some more fundamental phenomenon let's say some more fundamental reality. Don't think that's fair. We know that religious thinking, for example is essentially a human universal. You can always you can find exceptions to everything. But I think the reason that it's a human universal is because we have to live in a world of value. And so and the question is is the world value real. And that's a big problem because it depends to some degree on what you mean by real. When you say that when you ask the question is a variant of be the answer almost always is. Well, it defends depends on how you define and be right. When you're trying to just lock terms together like that. And so it's easy to get slippery. When discussing those sorts of things is the world value real. Well, the ancient Greeks had I think it was Plato himself who said her Socrates who said you have to define your terms, and that's no easy matter. So I sent out a tweet the other day asking people what topics they wanted me to bring up with Sammer seminar to discuss and one of them was the definition of God. And. I have a definition that I've been working on and it has to do with this hierarchy value. It's. It's based on the idea that you have to you have to you have to make a statement of faith in order to start any discussion because you have to stop the questions. You could always ask the question. Why no matter what you're saying? You can ask why? And that's no good. Because at some point you have to stop asking why. And act, and what that means is you have to put a stake in the ground somewhere and say, this is what I live or die by something. Like that. And I think that what God is from a psychological perspective is the most fundamental place that you put your stake in the ground, and that sort of variant of Carl Jung's idea, many ideas about divinity and about the idea of God. But one of them was that. God for you, whatever the highest value in your value system. God was the highest value in your value system, and that could be something conscious or unconscious because you can have a conscious value system, which means you thought it out everyone has a partially conscious value system, but your value system can be unconscious as well. In large part. Because like what the hell do, you know about yourself? You're really really complicated. You can't even set the clock on your microwave, you know, and so and your super complicated, and so and you act out a value system. And that value system is a hierarchy in there. Something the top of the hierarchy, and you serve that whether you know it or not, and you might say, well, that's not equivalent to God. But it's not a bad, psychological equivalent, and it's a pretty damn good start. And so that's the sort of thing that I know that's kind of oblique, but that's the sort of domain that I want to investigate tonight. So see one of the things that. Okay. So let's start let's start with let's start with a set of propositions. So here's the proposition. As I've been working them out in this tour, something like, this is that you you're you're you're tasked to action in life. It's not awful. Well, it is you can just do nothing degenerate and die painfully. Right. But but but that's part of being tasked that's part of being tasked to action. And it's part of what I mean by that is that the consequences of not acting in the world properly. Let's say is that you suffer and die, and you can say, well, that's okay. I'll accept that. And I won't act and all suffering diets like fine. But that's the price you pay for not acting. Now, you might be willing to pay that price, and you might say, well, I'm not compelled to act because of that. But generally speaking, yes, you are because it's not pleasant to starve to death. And it's not pleasant to die of thirst. And it's not pleasant just to sit and do nothing. There's a strong impulse to move out into the world and to live, but not only to live but to thrive. And you could say well in some sense that's built into and so so the impetus to action is is there from the beginning. That's why I think in the biblical stories. For example, I did some biblical lectures last year about fifteen of them. And I spent quite a bit of time studying Abraham stories, and one of the constant narrative themes, Abraham stories is that there's a call to adventure on the part of the protagonist. It's God calls to Abraham in. The most classic case and says get away from your comfort get away from your family get away from your tribe. Get away from your country get out into the world and have an adventure. And it's not having easy life. It's not be happy. It's none of that. It's get out there and contend and Abraham case. It's extremely interesting because Abraham is quite old when the call comes. I think he's eighty course, the biblical patriarchs in principle lived far longer, whatever. But he's eighty he's still old. He's been hanging. Around the house for too long, and you know, he gets called into the world. And you know, it's God that calls them out whatever that means. And you'd think if God calling you out that you step out the door, and it'd be like pedals of roses would drop from the sky and everything would be wonderful. But that isn't what happens at all. I mean Abraham's initial adventures just catastrophic he first encounters a famine, and none of us have ever encountered a famine. I mean, maybe there's a person to in this room that has but most of you have never even been hungry once much less encountered a famine families of big deal. Right. And then and then he goes to Egypt and it's tyranny, and and people are conspiring to steal his wife, and it's like, it's just not good. And I'm sure he's thinking all the time. I should've just stayed at home. And my tent, you know, but, but, but it doesn't matter because the call to adventure as there, and I think that's really useful. I think it's useful. Because it's also a way of conceptualizing your life is like, well, what is your life? It's well, it's not easy. That's. For sure it's certainly not something that you're going to be destined to be happy with it certainly got. It's tragic elements. It's characterized by malevolence and betrayal and all sorts of terrible things apart from tragedy. But one thing you could say is it might be an adventure. And maybe and maybe maybe it's in the adventure that it's actually justified. And I think that's I think that's the underlying idea of those stories is to be cold out into the world is to find an adventure that justifies the catastrophe. It's something like that. And that doesn't mean it's going to be easy or positive even. But it might mean that it's it's a worthy battle it. Might mean something like that it's often thought that about marriage to like when you marry someone well, you should marry someone who want to contend with. There's another another narrative trope in the Old Testament to I think it's think it's is it if I remember correctly who is is AKU wrestles with the angel. Jacob. Thank you shakeup that that wrestles with the angel. Well, what does that mean? Well. You know? Reality is something that you wrestle with. Right. It's something that pushes you to your limit. And if you have a good relationship with someone there's that in it, you want a worthy contender, you know. And it's not all peace, and and and lightness not at all. And you'd be unhappy with that anyways. You look for trouble. If that was the case, you know, if everything was just too good. It's like, no I'm out of here. I need some trouble. It's like if you so so so, okay. So back to the back to the value idea. You have to go out in the after pursue something. You can't just sit there and deteriorate away you're compelled out into life. And so then what's the consequence of being compelled into life? Is you have to something worthwhile? What do you have to? It's like well, actually, yes. Yes. You have to it's inevitable. And here's the reason as far as I can tell there's a very large number of things that you could do right. You could say in some sense that there's innumerable things that you could do there's so many you can't count. Want them? And so then well, how do you choose between them? Well, part of the answer to that is things choose you, which is a complicated thing that I won't go into like, maybe you're interested in something. And so and you think well, I'm interested in. It's like not exactly know the interest is manifesting itself in you. You don't have much volunteer control over that. You know, what that's like if you're interested in something you can pursue it. You can study it you can read about it. You can remember it you can work on it. And you can really work on it without having to beat yourself up about it. It'll just rip you and pull you along. But it's really hard to make yourself interested in something. If you're not, you know, when you've had this experience, no doubt when you were studying or when you were doing a job you didn't want to do. It's like you have to do the job. It's necessary to do the job. You know, it's necessary to do the job. But that doesn't make you interested in it. And you might ask why not wouldn't it be just simpler, if you could just tell yourself. Well, this has to be done. And so I should be interested in it. Poof, you're interested in it. And then the way you went, but that doesn't work and that that's. A non trivial fact man, this is this is part of the secret of the psychoanalysts see the psychoanalyst Freud young in particular. They figured out that you are not master in your own house. There are things going on inside you that are Tournus they have their own way of manifesting themselves. And and they're not just simple. They're not just simple drives like hunger thirst or the desire for sexual gratification. They're way more complicated than that. I like to think about them as sub personalities, and they grip you in the grip you all the time. And the fact that you can be interested in something even despite yourself because sometimes you're interested in things, you know, you shouldn't be interested in right everyone laugh because of course, that's right. This happens all the time. Yeah. And then you can't control that either you say, jeez. I wish I wasn't interested in that. But assure him assure them, right? So well, that's all that's all an indication that there are things going on inside you that that while in some sense, aren't you? But but in, but in a less, what would you call it, a less dramatic sense? At least you don't control and they're not random random just makes you walk stupidly off the stage in die. They're not random. They're directed their directed, so okay. So anyways. So there's something that's impelling you out into the world. And then when you're out in the world, you have all these choices to make perhaps a near infinite number of choices. It's the case technically that you can take a small number of entities like books, and you can classify those entities and near infinite number of ways. So that's just an indication of how complex the world is. So how might you classify books? Well, how thick they are heavy. They are old. They are hold the paper. Is how thick the paper is how many ease. There are how many as there are in the first sentence. How many as there are in the first chapter, right? Number of three letter words, number four letter words number of ten letter words number of sentences number of clauses while you get the point. Right. It's like you think. Well, why would you classify books that way? It's like look fair enough. Now, I didn't say that. There would be any utility in classifying them that way. So you don't but you could. So then the question is, well, why do you classify books in the tiny limited number of ways that you actually classify them maybe by author or by topic and the answer to that is because there's utility in that classification, and the reason is utility is because it serves some value if you wanna find a book in the library it works out if you classify them by author that's one way of finding the more perhaps by topic. And so so so the manner in which the books manifest themselves in classification system is dependent to some degree on the purpose that you're going to put the books to now that's something we're thinking about because what that means what it seems to me is you're surrounded by an array of facts, like infinite number of facts, and you have to select from among those facts, which ones you're going to act on and the way that you select them by valuing certain things. And so what that means is far as I can tell that you see the world through structure of value. So I mean that I don't mean that metaphorically. Although I also mean it metaphorically, I mean, actually, you see the world through value system. It's the primary structure that determines what in the world manifest itself to you. And I would also say just so that there's no mistake about this. There's plenty of evidence for this. And I don't mind some of the evidence chapter ten which is be precise in your speech. I talk about this famous experiment that Dan Simon did the experiment about the invisible gorilla, and what Simon did essentially was show people to teams block team white team. Three people on each team passing a ball back and forth between their team members for a minute show. Three minutes showed this video to people. And in the middle of the video they're supposed to count the ball in the middle of the video guy came walking out in a gorilla suit. Like, a big guy and beat his chest for a few seconds, three or four seconds. And then walked off the screen as like fifty percent of the people who watch that video never saw the gorilla. And so then he rewind it and shows it to them, and they go, well, that's not the same video. It's like, yeah. It is. Busy, counting basketball's while the dancing gorilla made it superior. And so the reason that's relevant is because you're focused on the balls because that's what's valued in the context that's told to do. And that makes you blind and not just not just a little blind right to miss the damn dancing gorilla. You're pretty blind. And so and so it's a staggering demonstration. There's many demonstrations of that type it's not it's not a single, it's not a single instance. And so so does appear that the way that you select what to perceive and what to act upon from an infinite menu of choices is by laying value structure on top of the world. And then using it as a screen or or perhaps or perhaps it uses you as its mechanism of action. That's another way of thinking about it because you might think well, that's your value system when you created it, and then and then you're. Acting on it. But you know, the degree to which you create your value system is is questionable. You seem to participate in creating it. You know, you co create it maybe that's another way of thinking about it. But there's lots of things that you value will because you don't really have much choice like you value food, for example, that sort of a given value shelter value temperature regulation, you value, companionship, value, sexual gratification all of these things now the degree to which you value them. And and the and and the manner in which you hierarchically arranged them seems to have something to do with your choice, but they're still they're still what would you call it? There's like there's biological impetus behind the value structure and to a degree that we don't we can't quite fully grasp. So you co create it. Okay. So all right. So so now what I've tried to figure out to some degree. And this is where this gets really cool as far as I'm concerned. And this is actually the thing I really wanna talk to Harris about. If I can manage it, if we can get to this is that I think that the structure that you use to interpret the world value structure that you used to interpret the world, I think it's a story. I think it's a story. And so you see the world of facts through a story. Okay. Now, this is all tell you why think that in some detail, but this is a weird thing because. Well, the first the first weird thing about it is that if you see the world through a story, and you choose what to act on in the world as a consequence of that story. Then in some sense, the story is your life like not completely because there's the world of facts out there. But, but but the facts that have their effect on you are mediated by your story. And you see that seems to be the role that stories play. And then you think well, let's think about stories for minute. What do you think of stories and answer as you? Absolutely love them. Right. Think the think about this? I mean, I know you're here this lecture. I don't know what the hell you're doing. But here you are. But but most of the time when you gather together like this. It's it's for a story. Right. You go to play a musical concerts different thing. And we won't talk about that you go to a play or you go see a movie, and then you do the same thing you buy books you buy fiction books. Watch TV you read stories to your kids your kids love stories where they'll work for. Stories. They'll harass you to tell them stories, right? And you'll and we'll pay the most expensive some of the most expensive artifacts that our culture produces are stories right was spent four hundred million dollars on on a special effects movie. It's a lot of money. And you know, you watch the credits at the end of those things it's like eight thousand people in like forty countries worked on this thing. So you can go spend fifteen bucks and be what amused for ninety minutes. Well, maybe what you're doing. There isn't just amusement. You know? Maybe you wouldn't be locked onto that to such a great degree. If there wasn't a real reason for it. And I mean, a real reasons like, well, why why are people camping out to to be in the movie theater? The first day the Star Wars movie opens it's like what the hell is with those people. And you know, why was Harry Potter such an unbelievable cultural event, you know, what's her name rolling? God what? Untold hundreds of thousands of six to ten year olds reading six. Page books. She was doing readings in stadiums. It's like what's up with that? Well, it's it's entertaining. It's like, well, what do you mean? Exactly that that's not the that's not a good analysis. It's not it. It's entertaining is the beginning of announcer. Why is it entertaining is the real issue? It's like, well, it's a respect from real life. Something like that. It's a scape ISM. It's like, well, what about horror movies, and even if he wants Disney movies, for example, which I'm quite partial to at least some of them. So they're made for kids. It's not like, they're all sweetness and light terrible things happen in those movies. And so kids are still completely in transit transfixed by the movies. So so, okay. So so there's something about stories. That's very very interesting. And then here's another thing about stories, even about fiction fiction is the opposite of fact people think that I think well, wait a second. Wait a second. Wait a second. Fiction is the opposite. Of fact fact is true fiction is the opposite fact fiction is therefore not true. Well, you think? Yeah, that's true because something fictional never happened. So it's not factual. It's like, okay. Well, wait a second. Does that make it less? True. What depends on what you mean by true think. Well, true equals factual. It's like, no, no, no, no, no, no true is only meant factual for about three hundred years true meant all sorts of things before that it meant that your heart. Could be true meant that an arrow could fly true, it meant that a blade could be true at bent that contract. Could be true. Character could be true. You could be true to yourself. Right. All of those things that all is part of whatever truth is. So let's not make the mistake of presuming that whatever we've been calling truth for all these thousands of years is identical to the set of empirical fact, it's like, no, that's a subset. So so back to fiction it's like well. Okay fiction. Didn't happen. So it's not true. It's not true history. That's for sure, but we do at MIT to graduations of fiction. We say, well, that's trivial as just a trivial story. And then we say, well, there's great fiction is great literature. Right. There's deep profound great literature. And you know that there's difference in quality between movies. You know, when you go to movies, just light hearted ADC, and you're there because you've worked enough, and you need to take a break and and fair enough, you know, but that's different than contending with a real real soul piece of drama. You know that there's a hierarchy of quality in in stories, and that indicates, well, what does that indicate it means while some stories are better stories than other stories. Well, what do you mean by better? Exactly like, and I mean, exactly we admit that the distinctions in quality exist. But we're not exactly sure what they're based upon. Well, that's part of what I want to address tonight. It's like, okay. So here's what I thought of as the minimum necessary require. It's for a story. So so the first requirement is that you have to be somewhere. But you are. So that's a problem. It's like there, you are you're somewhere and wherever you go. This is an important thing. Wherever you go your somewhere, you're located in time and space at a particular point. That's you you're actually the localization at that point in time and space, and so you're somewhere and similar painlessly. You're going somewhere, and I do mean symbol Tena sleep. Because I don't think psychologists have speculated about this sort of thing for a very long period of time. But I don't think you're ever somewhere without going somewhere. And that's because that has to do with this impetus to action we already described like, even you think. Well, you're sitting in the and you're not going anywhere. It's like, yes. You are. You're going on the journey that this event, and I know you're sitting there, but you're an abstract creature. You can have a little adventure just sitting there. That's what you do. When you go. See a movie, it's what you do when you. Read a book. It's what you do when you think it's what you do when you have a conversation like we can go places without going places. That's that's thinking that's abstraction. And so we're going somewhere, and we're all hoping that where we're going right now is somewhere worthwhile. And you're all sitting there wondering are we going to be going somewhere worthwhile tonight? Well, then that's what you're hoping. Right. And you're hoping to if it's a lecture like this. You're hoping that it'll have a beginning middle and an end and the end will justify the investment of time, and that it will generalize in some sense. That quality of whatever happens will generalize beyond the event. That's what you're hoping, you know. And that's obviously what I'm hoping to and part of the well in part of the dramatic tension in the event is to determine whether or not that's going to happen. You know, and I would say I play with that to some degree because I don't scrip these lectures. I mean, I have a sense of what I'm going to talk about. But they're spontaneous. I'm trying to explore. And so I don't really know if we're going to go somewhere. Valuable to bloody. Well, hope so when I'm trying to, but, but the fact that the, but the fact that the outcome is in doubt heightens the adventure. Right. So does it does it. Absolutely. Heightened the adventure, man. So. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So so you're somewhere, and you're going somewhere, and we already said that where you're going is valuable or why would why would you go there? And it's also not everywhere at the same time. It's just like a map in some sense to map open. The first thing you want to know when you open them up is where are you? Because if you don't know where you are. Well, then you can't compute trajectory to where you're going. So you have to know where you are. And I would say that's also metaphysically true. If you don't know where you are. It's very hard for you to plot. Your course forward. So I have an exercise I wrote in this suite called the self authoring, suite that helps people write an autobiography to bring themselves up to date like where are you? Where are you located in space and time are you still locked back in junior high school you still locked in high school? You still have things that are plaguing you when you were in college from a previous relationship like are you spread all over your life or your pieces not integrated into? Whether or you right here. And now ready to make the next move. That's a big question, man. It's certainly something that you sort out in any decent course of psychotherapy because partly what you do in psychotherapy. Is you tell your story where did I come from? What did that shape me into? And where am I right now? And sometimes that's really don't full. Right. You think? Well, of course, you know, where you are. It's like, no, not, of course, lots of times, you don't know where you are at all if you're in a relationship, and the think catastrophically degenerates, you know, maybe you're betrayed maybe maybe your partner dies or something like that. It's like you can easily end up in a place that you don't understand at all. You don't aware you are. And you'll say that you'll tell people I don't know where I am. It's like, well, what do you mean? By that here. You are right there sitting right there. It's like, no. That's not what I mean. And it's true. You can be physically localized without being psychologically and spiritually localized. It's very difficult to be psychologically and spiritually localized anyway. So you have to be something. And it's better to know where you are. But it's not a foregone conclusion. That's for sure. And it's an estimate and a guests at best like it can be informed. But you're taking your best crack at it. And then life is complicated. And sometimes you think you're somewhere, and you're not there at all. And now that realization can be absolutely devastated. I thought I could rely on you. I thought you loved me. I thought I had a good job. I thought I was doing the right thing, you know, it cetera et cetera. That's the voice of regret. And that's the problem with not being you're not. That's a problem with not being where you thought you were too terrible realization that and soon you're somewhere, and hopefully you've got that set. And then you're going somewhere now to go somewhere. Same with a map is what you have to figure out where that is you have to specify a place because you can't go everywhere at once. Or if you do, well, then you're all over the place, and everyone knows that you don't wanna be all over the place. You want to be where you are going somewhere. And then you might think well going where an answer is while let's go somewhere worthwhile. So that's somewhere valued. And and then what is worthwhile? Meanwhile, it's at least worth the trouble because it's going to be some trouble. Right. It's going to take some resources. It's going to take some time. There has to be a payoff. That's commensurate with that or to degenerating game. You know, like if you spend more money than you earn that isn't going to work if you keep going places that don't justify the journey, then you're just going to wear yourself to nothing. You know, even if you don't degenerate physiologically, you'll degenerate, psychologically, because what will happen is the end destination isn't worth the trouble, and that will demoralize you. So it has to be a worthwhile place. So and so that's the situation you're in your goings, you're somewhere, and you're looking up, and you're climbing towards that place. And that's always the case no matter where you are. That's always happened because wherever you are good enough and. You're trying to get to somewhere that's the promised land. That's the that's the metaphysics of the idea of the promised land. It's it's it's also the archetype of the promised future. You know in the U Toby that might await for wait for us, or or or the better life that lays ahead if you if you if you play your cards carefully or your dreams and visions for relationship or your hope for your children all of that. It's like here. I am. Now, here's something better. That's what I'm pursuing. And without if that if that structure, so that's the structure that you're looking at the world through if that structure stabilizes, then all hell breaks loose on you. And I'll talk about that in a minute. But and that's that's a very literal way of thinking about it really and metaphorical at the same time. If that structure breaks down all hell breaks loose. And I think that that's that's exactly the right way of thinking about it. And so you don't want that you do not want all hell to break loose. That's for sure. And here's a hint about that. So are all ready made. He made this claim made that there's a lot of things that you could be doing the world's very complicated. There's lots of ways of looking at it. There's lots of pathways through it. There's way too many way too many for you to handle. You're absolutely overwhelmed by the choices. See a lot of what you're doing when you place value structure in the world is trying to delimit that insane complexity to a single valuable option because you have to have that before you out. It's like, well, I wanna walk across the stage while I could go this way, or this way this way or this way or this. You know, there's infinite number of gradations of pathways. I have two zero all those down to. Nope. I'm going that way. Right. And that collapses that entire. Multidimensional space of choice down to a single actuality. And that single actuality is that which you value most at that point in time. That's why the chicken crosses the road right is because the chicken thinks the other side of the road is better because otherwise it just stay on. That's us. That's the answer people being asked you that your whole life. It's like the chicken thinks the other side of the road is better. It's like, maybe it isn't. But you know, it's a road crossing chicken. So that's what it's going to think. And so. So okay. So fine now, so your point and you're going to point B, and that's how you see the world and that limits what? Now, here's how this works. This is so cool. So this is sort of back to the guerrilla example. So that actually structures you it structures the way here's how it structures the way the world manifest itself to you. First of all it gets rid of all the other choices when you make a decision. It's like, okay, I'm going there. And then I don't have to go these other treats, billions of places I could go. Thank God such a relief. I'm just going there. That's why it's so it's such a relief to finally make a decision right because that landscape of catastrophic choice collapses. And you think at least I made a decision. Well, why would you be so relieved it's like, well, how long do you want to think about something here? Here's an example, trivial. But it'll do you know, you think how many shampoos do you want to choose from anything? I want an infinite number of shampoos to choose from because I like consumer choice. You go to the drugstore and there's like five hundred shampoos right and some of them have protein and some of them have orange juice and some of them have like vitamins and some of them have gold or some with gold in it. Now in case, you need gold and not very much, and there's some that has no agreements whatsoever their peer and then right? And so there's right, right. And so there's just like shampoo shampoo city band is five hundred of them. And here's and you might think well that's way better than just having two shampoos to choose from. But actually, it's not because how much time do you wanna spend choosing shampoo? And if there's five hundred of them the probability that you chose the correct shampoo is like zero it's one in five hundred so right. So no matter what choice you made your stupid. Right. And so so, and this is actually what the consumer literature reveals people say, well, more choice or less more. It's like really think you go into a sandwich place, right? And it's lunchtime. And you're busy in your hungry. And there's like. Eighteen types of meat, and there's fifty types of topics and there's ten types of Brad. And it's like. It's like. That's common. To'real explosion. Right. That's that's a lot of different possible sandwiches. And the person says, well, how do you want your sandwich? And you think just make me a damn sandwich and give it to me because I don't want to do the complex cognitive computations necessary to design the ideal sandwich. That's actually why I want you to do it. I want you just maybe I want roast beef or ham or maybe there's a vegan option right something like that. And there's three cent, which is all have that one. And that that's the right amount of choice. And so people don't like unconstrained choice. They don't like no choice, but they don't like unconstrained choice because it's just not worth. It's not worth the complexity. That's the thing. And so when you make a decision the complexity collapses when you choose a partner. Why is it a good thing to choose a partner? Well, often it's not because you have to put up with partner. But of course, they have to put up with you. So that you probably go to better deal than they did. So. So, but but but but you probably both go to pretty bad deal. So, but what why do you do that? It's like, well, people say marriages, the death of hope it's like have you heard that? So so optimistic. It's like, yeah. But it's also the death of cognitive complexity and thank God for that. It's like they're probably is the perfect person for you is probably out there somewhere. And let's say if you spend one second evaluating the three point five billion options, you'd need three hundred sixty years. So good luck. You're going to sift through all those people men while you founder so good for you harangue. So so, but you're just not going to do it. And and you pick a partner, and you think well, I'm going to put up with this person. And it's a relief at these should be because it simplifies things to to a great degree like there's complexity in the person, but there's not the complexity of an infinite Ray of potential partners at every corner and for for for better for worse with regards to the infinite number of partners. So you're doing this a lot you're delimiting the complexity of your environment with your choices and a huge part of what your values structure does is do that. And it simplifies the world so that you can live in. Here's how it works. So once I decide where I'm going. My perceptions fall into line. And this is something that. I mentioned this to audience that I was talking to a couple of days ago. Almost nothing more important that you could possibly ever learn that that's the case. Once you decide what you value your perceptions fall into line. You think could that really be like, well, who cares? Why is that such a big deal? Think about it. What it means is the way the world manifests itself is dependent on what you value. God. Like, you could just think about that forever. Because what it means is what it implies is that if the world isn't manifesting itself to INA manner that you approve of. And I don't mean in shallow way. I mean because sometimes people are suicidal, right? It's like, they're suicidal. The world is not manifesting itself to them in a manner. That's commensurate with their continued survival. It can get really brutal. If the world isn't manifesting itself to you in a manner that you find desirable. There's some possibility that it's because you're value structure isn't oriented properly, and it isn't this, isn't trivial. It's actually the case. Now, look I understand having. Said that I don't mean that you can just wish yourself out of everything. And I also don't mean the terrible things might not happen to you that you can't control that happens. Right. No matter how he entered you are with regards to your values. You can get pancreatic cancer. And you're gone in three months. Like, I understand that. We're mortal in finite, limited and all those things and everything isn't within our purview or power. Right. But but within the framework of our mortality, let's say and our subjugation to the essential tragedy of life. It's still the case that the manor which the world manifest itself is dependent to some indeterminate degree on what you value. And then the question is then what should you value? And that is the question, man. That's the question. So okay. So here's how perception works at least in part. So let's say I'm deciding that I'm going to walk parallel to this stage border right off the right off the stage. Now what happens? Well, Susan, I specified that goal point my eyes at the goal something that you do point your is it goals. That's why our is having volved the way they have by the way, we have very acute vision. We have whites surrounding irises. And that's so that I can tell where you're pointing your eyes because all of our ancestors whose is word easily readable. We're either killed or didn't successfully reproduce. Because one of the things I want to know about you is where the hell are you're pointing your eyes. And the reason I wanna know is because I want to know what you've Aliou, and the reason I want to know that is because I want to know what you're up to because then I can understand you. So if I can tell where you're pointing your eyes, I know what you want, and then I can understand you. And then we don't have to fight, and maybe we can cooperate like it's a big deal. It's a major deal. So you point your is it what you want. And then that sets up your visual perception. And so when I'm looking straight ahead. There's an obstacle in my path. And that's that stool, it's not a stool at the moment. You say, well, of course, it's a stool. It's like, no, it's not. No, it's not it's an obstacle to my progress forward. And you think magin you're driving? You're in a hurry to get somewhere. And maybe you're a bit on the temperamental side. So you're late. Cheerful. But doesn't matter you're late. So. Outta crosswalk, and you're like raring to go and this old lady in a Walker is going. Across. The crosswalk, and it's like the little hand is there and it's time for her to be on the damn sidewalk. But she's not. She's just hobbling along and using God, damn, dammit. I wish she'd get across. It's like that a poor old woman in the stroller. Obstacle in your path. It's like well just think about how you're acting. Maybe you're a bit guilty about it. Because you also recognize that it's a poor old woman in the stroller. But there's part of your brain going obstacle. Obstacle. Obstacle. Obstacle obstacle. Right. And that's what makes you curse in mutter away under your breath in your car. No one can hear you. And you're in there alone. So you can say whatever you want. But, but the reason that I'm laying that out is because if something's in your way, it's an obstacle. And that is how you parse up the world as soon as you have a goal, then the world divides, it self into what your relevant things, and that's most things because everything that isn't directly related to that goal is now irrelevant and thank God for that. And then there's obstacles. That get in your way. And then there's facilitators or tools that get you on your way. And some of those can be quite simple. So let's say this is even associated with emotion. So if I'm looking at this pathway, I wanna get over there. Now, there's an obstacle in my way that actually produces a small amount of negative emotion because the pathway isn't clear, and so I'm actually less happy. If I wanna go over there. I'm less happy standing here. Then I am standing here because the the the phenomena that manifest themselves as a consequence of me laying out avail you structure, having emotional meaning it's built right into them. So you don't see neutral objects in the world, you see something like obstacles and tools. You don't see most things you're blind to almost everything. But what you do see your articles in tools, so and tools make you happy because they where you're going off tickles, they make you happy. That's actually what your emotional systems are for because you're trying to get somewhere. And so the positive emotion system gets you going towards your goal and the negative emotion system says watch it there's an obstacle watch it. There's an obstacle, and that's emotions, and so not only it's more complicated than that. But that's the basic foundations of your emotions are positive and negative moving forward positive stop moving away negative. That's the basic structure now those brand show because there's different kinds of positive emotions and there's different kinds of negative emotions, but that's the groundwork. And so not only does your goal determine your perception. Actually, the things you literally see in the world it also determines your emotional response. So that's pretty that's pretty wild. That's pretty wild. So so that that means that your value structure co-determined your reality. That's a good way of thinking about it. Okay. So now. Okay. So drag annoys, I guess. So. That's a simple story. So here's the simple story. I was at point a and I went to point B. And so that's the story that kindergarten kid might tell. It's just a fragment of a narrative. What did you do today? Well, mom, and I walked to school. Okay. That's that's an acceptable unit of communication, and you might you might dig a little bit. You might say. Well, did anything. Interesting happened along the way, right? Which is really? That's an interesting question is what do you mean? Interesting. Exactly, exactly. I mean, you're trying to get the kid to think that up on his own. But you have a theory in mind, something interesting, something what unexpected maybe who knows? And the kid says, well, you know, I was walking to school and I walked by this yard and a big dog jumped out at the fence in barked at me. And I was I was scared. And then you might say what happened in the kid says, well, I went to school anyways. And you give them a Pat and you say good work kid and right because that's what you'd say. You'd say well, you something scary happened. Remember this high and it's the dog like a German shepherd. That's like you being chased by eight foot German shepherd. It's a major deal that right? It's a major deal that this kid. That's how wolf right? It's a wolf. And so maybe it's not that hungry but still still bounces out scares the kid to half to death. But he perseveres, and he goes to school anyways, you might say. Well, how did you feel afterwards? Okay. Okay. I started to play in that forgot about it's like so you give the kid a little, you know, you're happy about that story. Why? Well, the kid laid out a pathway right specified, the objects just sidewalk to school. That's all. It's relevant known territory something he can easily master, and then something leaped out of the darkness and threatened that and the kid reacted. That's negative emotion. It's like the manifestation of something. Unexpected. That's a special category of negative that will get to in a moment. Then he recovered any went along the way. That's a better story. See that's a much better story. Fact when you go see a story. That's usually the story. The story is I thought it was appoint a, and I was going to point B on the way something really unexpected happened. And it knocked the whole damn story for a loop. And then I was somewhere I didn't expect to be at all. And then while perhaps I just died there. That's what happens in hamlet. For example. It's not just how everybody dies there, and that's a tragedy. Right. Because you're in your pathway, the world's all fixed and set and then something emerges and throws you for a loop. And that's it you're done. That's a tragedy and comedy is while the little kids stories of comedy. I mean, it's not funny comedies aren't technically. Funny like comedy is the encounter with. Something that's catastrophic and then the regrouping and the transcending of that catastrophe. And that's the story that everyone loves okay. And so what's the story? Well, here's a story. So I think the first thing I was at point eight going to point B, I think about that as a normal story. And then this next story, which is at point a was cruising alone unaware something knocked me off my feet. I ended up somewhere I didn't expect then I reconstituted myself. And I got my I got back together. I think that's a revolutionary story. That's the kind of story that people are really really interested in. And so that's the sort of story that you hear in psychotherapy. If therapy works out at the end, the story will be something like, you know. I was happily married. All right thought, I was trusted my partner, and we'd have a couple of kids. We had a pretty good marriage. Maybe a little rocky from time to time, but everything was pretty secure and relied on this person. I trusted them. And then I found out that they had had. To affairs in the last four years, and and maybe a history of them before that, and they never told me about that at all. And I found that out accidentally, and it just blew me into bits in case. So you'd think about think about what happens when something like something like that has happened. All of you might not be an an affair might not be a betrayal. But you've been pursuing some dream. You're in you're in the little space encapsulated by that dream, let's say and something comes along and blows it into pieces. Maybe you think you deserve a raise at work, and it goes to someone else or maybe your bosses embezzling, and you trusted him or maybe, you know, maybe you wanna be a physician, and you write the cat and you get like fifteen th percentile on this thing. And so that's the end of that or or or or maybe maybe you get sick. You know, you're doing quite well, and all of a sudden your physiology kicks out on you. And you know, you lose your job and garden who knows maybe lose your house, and maybe you can lose everything, you don't know. And like these things happen to. All the time. What's happening when something like that happens? Well, the betrayals that good example is like you're in this little in capsulated safe world, and you've got your perceptual object specified, and you got your emotional responses mapped out, but problem is is a lot of the world that you weren't taking into account. And that's the case because you can't you can't take the whole world into account, you ignore almost everything and sometimes that works out fine. You can get away with it for it's hard to understand how but you can get away with at least for short periods of time. And it's a good thing because you're just not cognitively complex enough to take on the whole world. So if you're simplifications didn't work, you'd be doomed doomed anyways. But you know, what I mean, it'd be doomed faster. But if you're if you're in a marriage, and partly what you're doing to the person with the person that you're married to his you're simplifying each other. You're saying, well, here's this men's range of behavioral potentials, which would include going out with other people. Say behind your back and with all the complexity that would entail, but I'm not going to do that. That's the promise. And so now, I'm half as complicated as I was. And you know, if you're my partner, then you agree to do the same thing it. So now, you're half as complicated as you were or maybe seventy percent, less complicated. Who knows and maybe that makes us simple enough. So I can live with you and vice versa. Right. So we've made we've made a decision to delimit the way that we're going to interact with the world. We've been made a decision to live out a certain kind of story and to bind it together. And that means that we can inhabit the same space with a certain amount of security and simplicity. But then you have an affair. It's like, okay. What happens? Well, that's not good question. The better question is, well, what doesn't happen because everything happens. It's like, well, I thought I understood my past. Clearly, I didn't that's a strange thing. Because you think the past is fixed course, you understand the past it already happened. It's like really really, well, you know, sometimes you go to a movie and something happens at the end, the changes the way you looked at the beginning completely. It's weird because you already watched the whole movie it's like you saw what happened that happened. It's like, no what you thought was happening wasn't what was happening. And it is the little twist at the end that's a twist ending, and it makes everything fall into a different configuration. And if a director pulls off properly, sometimes it's a real it's a real deception. And it's a trick. You know, you find out the person was dreaming or some idiot thing like that, you know. But sometimes someone really pulls it off. And there's something you didn't expect. And it just it just makes everything else makes sense. It's like so. Well, so my my my point is is that sometimes what happens now can affect the past. It's like, well, if if you have a partner, they betray you that affects the past you thought you. Knew where you were. You thought you knew where you were going. You didn't know where you were or where you were going, and you didn't know your partner. And that means you didn't know you because you saw that you were smart enough to figure out what was going on. But you weren't. And so if you were stupid enough to make that mistake, just how stupid are you? And you know, I'm not being mean about this. This is how people react when they're in a situation like this like if you're fundamentally betrayed in Dante's inferno, which is like a map of hell, the deepest part of hell was reserved for people who betray right because that's the thing that throws everyone for a loop the hardest. It's like if you're betrayed. It's like everything is up for grabs. All those things that your story protected you from all come rushing back, and that's your past your present. Well, it's gone. It's like your present. What it isn't what you thought. It was that's for sure. And and your future. Well, that was kind of. Specified to begin with. But now, it's completely in disarray. And so everything has come flooding back. Your story broke down everything has come flooding back. And then you have to re align yourself, so that might take a long time because you know, if you're if you're doing this with somebody therapeutically, you might say, well, where do you think where do you want to help the person figure out what happened? Not. So that they know what happened. But so that the probability that the same thing will happen again is decreased. That's actually, the whole utility of your memory your memory, isn't there? So that you remember what happened because who cares? What happened? That's not the point the point is to extract out from the terrible occurrences of the past. The information necessary to help you avoid the same terrible occurrences in the future. Right. So it's like, you're updating your map. It's like you might ask the person. Okay. Well, where do you think where do you think your marriage went wrong? You might even ask them. What would you think that is there some manner in which you contributed to this? It's kind of a rude question. But you want to know that because if you're gonna have another relationship maybe you don't want to bring the same damn mistakes forward. Right. Plus, you can control to some degree the mistakes, you made you can't really control the mistakes the other person made, but you want to map out what happened then you think. Okay. So you start you go back to the beginning. You think? Okay. Well, it's very rare that something like that happens and people don't think while there were. Warning signs that I Nord sometimes it comes out of the blue but often people. No, no, no, I could there was unhappiness here. Here's something we didn't deal with I saw this happening at cetera et cetera. You can line up the events, and then maybe have to go over them. And you think ok well when did it start? What did I avoid? What should've I attended to. How could have I set it? Right. How many times did that happen? And you you we've narrative, and so what you doing is you re exploring the complexity of the past that was hidden from you when it was happening, and as your re-explore that you're acquiring a pulp -able increase in wisdom and wisdom would be the restructuring of your value system. So that you can act more appropriately as you move forward into the world. And if you're lucky, and this is when the story is a comedy. What happens is you really figure it out? You really figured out. You think icy? Here's ten things that I did wrong three. Are deep and profound. Six of them are kind of trivial, and I can take care of them. But I really need to fix these three things up. I really need to fix them up. And so you practice and you get your act together. Again, you fix them up. And then maybe you start a new relationship if you're lucky, and maybe it's better if you're lucky and then five years later, that's the story. You can tell the story is well, I was kind of naive, and I had this relationship and it went catastrophically wrong. And then I was somewhere terrible for like a longtime and things fell apart. And I didn't know if life was worth living, and I didn't know about the past and didn't know about the president. I didn't know about the future, and I was hopeless depressed anxious and angry and bitter and unhappy and vengeful, and resentful and murderous because that happens, and it's a dark place man that you go when things fall apart, and it can be really dark if you let it become that dark, and then that's that's the tragic story. The real tragic stories you don't get out of that. And that happens to people all the time. Right. But the comedy is. But I learned my damn lesson. And I figured out what I did wrong, and I put myself back together. And now, I'm in a new place, and it's better. Here down up and the second is higher than the first one. And that's the real story that's death and rebirth by the way, and that's well worth knowing because there's an idea one of the ideas, that's at the basis of our culture is that. The redeemer is he who dies in his reborn. Right. And that's really worth knowing. I'm speaking about this, psychologically, obviously, I'm not speaking about this from a religious perspective. But I said that I would investigate the Genesis of the origin of religious ideas as far as I can tell that's the origin of that idea. Now, it's a deep deep idea. Okay. So let me see if I can flesh this out a little bit more. So. See because it isn't just that you have to get your story straight. You have to get your story straight. Why? Because the world reveals itself to you through your story. So you better get your story straight. But you can't. Why? Well, because you're ignorant, and limited and malevolent. Right. You have character flaws that you know, you have their things that you're doing wrong that you know, you're doing wrong that you haven't fixed. So that's that's the that's the worm at the core of the characterizes everyone. That's Alexander Solzhenitsyn wrote about that. When he said the line between good and evil passes down the heart passes through the heart of every individual. So you've got to put up you go to contend with your own unwillingness to stay on target, and that would be hatred malevolence and the desire for revenge, and all of that, you know, you know, how you go rolling when you go wrong and kinda wrong. I'm talking about is when you know that it's wrong, and you do it anyways that characterizes everyone. So you've got that to contend with. And then you've got just the fact of the catastrophe of life to contend with things are more complicated than you can actually handle you actually can't get your story straight. Okay. So while so that's kind of bloody hopeless. Isn't it? It's a Nile Listrik view the world is tragic and it's contaminated by malevolence. And there's nothing you can do about it because you're ignorant, and and and evil it's like and end of that discussion. But people think that they think that when they get really depressed, they think that when they get really Listrik. It's like, you think that when you get hopeless. It's like, it's so it's not like this whole idea set of ideas is foreign to people if things really fall apart around, you you might not only think that of you, you might think that have everything. So so it's a real thing. But that's when the other story comes in see because the question is what is it mean to get your story straight? And it doesn't mean that you're right because you can't be right. Because what the hell do, you know now statement at the beginning of the lecture? Right. You can't even set the clock on your microwave. So what hope you have? It's like, well, that's where the second story comes in. Because see one of the things let's see how can I can. I can I state this properly. Getting your story straight is a process, not a fixed state. Okay. So so imagine here here's one way of thinking about it. So so you're here. Going from point A point B, and then things fall apart catastrophically, and you're here. So you're in the upper world, and then you're in the underworld, maybe you're even inhale because that's a little section of the underworld, and then you bounce back up and you're here again. So you can think well, I'm who I was that would be one kind of identity. I'm the person I thought I was that blows apart. Then you're in this terrible place. And you think oh, I'm the sort of person who's in this terrible place. That's another form of identity, and then you can think no, no, I'm not the old person or the person who was in the catastrophe. I'm the new person. But the problem is is the new person can fall apart to. Okay. So, but then there's a third way of thinking this is a better way of thinking. I'm not this or this or this. I'm the process by which this. Oh kerr's. Right. It's like, I know something it's not quite right collapses. It causes trouble the collapse, but I regroup. I learn a regenerator put myself back together. And then it happens again, and it happens again. But each time it happens. Maybe you're a little wiser your little more put together. And you think well, I'm not any of these fixed states on the process by which the transformation occurs. That's the critical thing is that are you are you are you who you are. Are you the thing that falls apart or you the thing that moves between the states, and that's the thing to speak metaphorically, that's identification with the spirit that. Dizon is reborn right. And that's the key to redemption to let the old part of you die when it's necessary and to let the new part be reborn. So you identify without thing that can dive all terribly and be reborn. And that's the key to redemption. That's a matter. That's the getting your story straight. You see in the reason it's a process. Well, it's not only that that there's too much of the world for you to get. Right. And so you can't and it's not only that you're kind of warped and bent. So you can't it's also that things change around you very rapidly. So even if you're right now. Correct. I mean that doesn't mean that you're going to be correct in two years. If you stay the same, you know, like if you have a nine year old kid who's pretty mature and together, and they don't change it all and now they're fifteen they're going to be a pretty immature. Fifteen year old even though they were perfectly fine nine year olds. So your your task not only with contending with your own ignorance in your own malevolence? But you're also tasked with contending with the fact. That the world is transforming like mad while you're trying to adapt to it. And so you say well, you need to hit a target. He needs to specify a target. That's for sure. But the damn target moves. And not only does it move. It even moves in ways that you can't predict. And then you say, well, if the target keeps moving in ways that I can't predict then why should I bother hitting the target at all? But we've already gone through that you don't have an option. Well, you could just sit there and degenerate painfully die that's your option. So you have to you have to follow the target that moves unpredictably, even though you can't necessarily manage the tracking. And the way you do that is by paying attention and updating as you move forward. So if I'm this is a trivial example. But you know, I'm walking forward. Maybe I close my eyes have to trip over this rug. It's like, okay, I'm going to do that again. So this time I know where that is. I'm gonna step over it. Okay. Well, that's it's a tiny little improvement. It's a tiny transformation in my map of the world. But it it it smooths my pathway forward. Right. And I would say one of the ways to avoid. Hellish catastrophes is to make micro improvements constantly to see. And this is why you wanna see where you're wrong all the time. If you can because if you can see where you're wrong all the time and little ways, and you fix up those little ways that you're wrong. Then you don't have to collect all the ways that you're wrong and have one big catastrophe. And that's that's sort of the story of divorce as far as I can tell that, you know, people every relationship has friction because life is hard, and you two are different and you want different things and there's difficult decisions to make like it's hard. And so there's conflict it's necessary to work out the complexity, and you think well, I'm not going to engage in the conflict. I'm not going to rock the boat. That's fine. Except all it does accumulate. And at some point it'll accumulate you'll have fifty thousand fights that you haven't had. And then one day you'll have all fifty thousand of them. And then you're done you'll never recover from that. So and I've seen people fall into that pit because. That is a pit. And it's a deep pit. And there's a nasty monster at the bottom of it, which is made up of all the tiny little monsters that you could have taken on one by one fifty thousand times all male debated into one massive monster. And then you fall into the pit, and it eats you and you're done, then you're in divorce court for ten years fighting over your kids and spending a third of a million of third of a million dollars on lawyers because they're part of that monster that's out the bottom of the pit. So. Okay. So so here, let me let me tell you one more thing, you tell me what you think about this. So I'm going to go laterally for a minute because I was talking about the of religious ideas. So this is like a religious, obviously, there's a religious component to this idea of death and rebirth. I mean, clearly, so let me let me twist a little bit. And so let's go back to the example of the dog and the and the kid, okay? So kids walking along dog leaps out kid goes like this, right? Startles freezes. Why? Or maybe runs away. But not in this case, freezes what does the rabbit doing it? Sees a wolf freezes. Okay. What does that prey animal? Do when it sees a predator. Freezes? Okay. So here's a cool thing. You know of the Medusa the symbol of the Medusa. Head of snakes. What happens when you see them do? So he turned to stone. Right. Somebody you saw the second Harry Potter movie. Maybe read the second Harry Potter book. Remember? The magic castle that all the magic kids live in. And then I know UN watch this new thank you know, what you're doing. And underneath the castle. Well, what else giant snake lives in the sewer pipes, essentially, it's this giant ancient snake swallow that no problem because it's obvious the case that if there's a magic castle full magic kids that there's a snake under it. I mean, everyone knows that makes perfect sense. And so when this thing manifest itself, the kids turn to stone. Right now, Harry Potter fixes that. Right. And he fixes that by going down into the basement way down underneath everything where the snake is. That's where that monster is and then by dying and coming back to life. That's that's that story. It's a Phoenix. Remember, he has a fight with the snake? And then he gets poisoned by it. He rescues a virgin down there Virginia. Ginny. It's not her name Virginia. So what's her name Geneva? Yeah. It's the same name. It's just a variant of it. But but so it's the same name. It's just a variant of it. So it's the Saint George story, right? Saint George counters to dragon and overcomes it and frees the virgin slice. Exactly. The same story. That's the oldest story of mankind. By the way, that story is being around as the story for like a written story for like five thousand years. It is literally the oldest story, we know. And it's way older than its written form. Who knows how old it is? Like, I think in. It's physiological incarnation. It's probably as old as the relationship between snakes and human beings. And that sixty million years old because we co evolved with snakes and part of the reason that we can see so well is because our vision evolved to detect snakes. So that's something. That's something. Okay. So in the Harry Potter movie. Well when the snake comes up. You turn to stone. And then someone has to redeem you and so now the Phoenix what the hell's a Phoenix. It's like what's this bird that burst into flames turns back into a and is reborn. And it's the Phoenix tears that cure Potter. And so the idea there is the spirit that immolates it self and is reborn is the cure for the disease that the snake produces. That's the stories. Like, that's true. It's true in the fictional sense. It's true in the fictional sense. That's more true than truth. It's more than true. So I've been thinking about that. As meta true. It's truth extracted from sets of truth. Well, little kid. He goes to school. The dog comes rushing forward freezes. It's like the story could be looked out. I went back home and I hid under my bed, and I never came out again. And you think that's not a good story kid. That's not going to serve you. Well, well, you know. You know, like there's lots of ways of handling that. You know, let's say that you're walking along with your kid, and you're pretty nervous and the the will not dog comes bounding out. And when it does you just melt down, so not only is your kid frozen. But you melt down in your kids watching you. It's like well is that going to help her hurt? And what it's what it's going to do is magnify the trauma of the event immensely because what a child will do in a situation like that is freeze and then reference and what they reference is the expression on their parents face. And if it's abject terror that's not good because well because the kid is wired so that if something happens that exceeds his or her level of competence that they refer to the parent and see if it also exceeds their level of competence. And if answer is it does then that's not good because that means that whatever came bounding out is more powerful than mum or more powerful than dad, and you don't want things. Around that are more powerful than mom or dad. And so the right thing to do is to watch the kid and the kid gets all frayed. And you say, hey, look, man, you give them a little, Pat. You know, maybe give him hugging. You say look, I was scary. But you can handle it. Then you take their hand. And you walk them to school. Now, it's a little heroes story. It's like the great predator came bounding out of the unknown and fixed you with its eye, and you could prevail. You could continue in not just a prey animal. You're something that can prevail. And that's what you teach your kids. Is that there something that can prevail? Right. And the symbolism that we use to represent that which emerges to pull. You down is the symbol of the turtle predator. That's the narrative trope, essentially. So the idea that in the magic castle. There's terrible snake that lurks underneath it freezes. You is the same story. I told you about how your life falls apart when something unexpected. Acted happens. It's just it's the concretize ation of that idea in image. That's about all I can explain tonight. The the the only other thing that I could touch on briefly to maybe flesh this out somewhat is the idea of the snake itself because he think well, if the snake is the thing that he turned comes out of known to attack you both both practically and conceptually. Then what does the snake consist of well part of part of that is just the thing that devours that's the tragedy of life. Right. There's that. But in in the Judeo Christian tradition. We've also associated the snake with malevolence because there's this deep idea. This took me like thirty years to figure out literally as I was thinking about it all the time. You know, there's an idea that the snake in the garden of Eden is Satan. It's a very weird idea. Because it's not in the story. It's something that was who knows how old have story is. But it was built on top of the story much afterwards. And was the consequence of a lot of thinking. It's like well why what's the worst? Snake while you think well just snake that like actual snake is a bad thing. But you know, what good stick it? Chase away a snake? It's like what about the snakes and other people? Those are harder to chase away. What about the snake in you? That's really hard to chase away on the snake in other people. That's the thing that betrays you. Right. So the thing that really can knock you for a loop. Like, you might think of this in some senses the ultimate predator from the metaphysical perspective isn't just the tragedy of life. The fact that you're vulnerable. But the fact that it's something like the fact that other people in you too can maneuver things to make them far worse than they are. That's you say that that's the human capacity for evil. So the thing that lurks in the garden and makes things fall apart is not just the catastrophe of life. The tragedy of life say the fact that while that we're physiologically fragile mortal. But also the fact that the worst form of falling apart is at the hands of someone who's trying to take you apart on purpose. And that would also include you, and so that accounts for that association. So the snake which is the primordial predator, which is the thing that lurks underneath everything is not only the complexity of the world the tragedy. Of existence. But but also the malevolence of you and other people, and that's the best. I can do in seventy minutes about the. Evolution of religious ideas. So thank you. Jordan Peterson everybody. He's sort of ended that like far is go that's the best. I can do about that. Guy is truly unbelievable like every single show that we've done has been completely different cable. Gabe, going for Jordan, everybody. We're gonna. We're gonna give him just the second or two to stretch his legs. I'll take this. So you guys submitted. This might be the most we've ever got the most amount of questions. I mean, they were literally probably thousands of questions here. But I realized Jordan did that whole thing. No mention of enforcement. Gimme was there. Should we enforce little monogamy real quick here? How many people do we have? Kind of a depressed smattering right there. It's funny because these audience they skew a little bit mail, right? It's probably about sixty forty miles. So we may have to enforce little game Unagi is that cool. Alright one guy up there. Oh, all right. Bring him out Jordan Peterson everybody. You even shaved for these. Good people whatever the beard. It's a long complicated story. So I don't I don't think I'm going to tell it. It'll be back. They do grow. So all right. They like the scrub. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Now. It's one person in two thousand. All right. So we got a ton here. But I I actually want to ask you on first the big show tomorrow night with or two nights from now. Sam do you get nervous at all? Oh, yeah. I'm nervous about that. Because it's the problem with the sorts of things that I was talking about tonight is that it's not they're not easy to summarize. You know? You know? So I mean, it took seventy minutes like it's taken me thirty years to get that thing compressed down to something approximating, seventy minutes. And I don't know how successful that was or not. But I think okay. Okay. Good. Well. Glad to I'm glad it was comprehensible because like there's a lot. There's. There's a there's a lot in it. And a lot of weird leaps and trying to lay out the pathways to make those leaps comprehensible is very tricky. And so I'm going to talk to Sam about the value facts distinction. See I think where I think what he's missing I think what people who think the way that. He thinks are missing is appreciation for the reality of stories, one of the things I didn't tell you. I guess I can use this as a brief opportunity to do that. You see, here's where it gets even more complicated. So. There's the world of facts. So we call that material reality. And then there's the world of value that you overlay on top of that. And you think well, that's really real. It's just an overlay. It's like, well, it depends on what you mean by a real in. Here's here's the rub. So we've been overlaying a structure of value on top of the world of facts for. Who knows how low at least two hundred thousand years because human beings, roughly equivalent us have been around for that long. And you know, like, our obviously our our existence as living forms goes back three and a half billion years. So we can't exactly tell when this happened. But the structure value has been around for a long time, and it's not like animals don't inhabit a structure value because they do it's all implicit. They don't articulate it. They're not conscious of it. But that doesn't mean it's not there. It's there. So the structure of value is really really really really old. It's old enough. So that we've actually adapted to it as if it's part of reality. Then you think well, if you've adapted to something that sort of makes it reality because from Darwinian perspective reality is that to which you are adapted definitional. So so. This story is so real that it's woven into the fabric of reality itself. And we don't know exactly how they overlay exactly. And how they interplay. And and it's really a mystery. Let me give let me give you one more example, you can think about this. I've been thinking about this for a long time. So the classic biological trope is something like evolution is a random process. It's like, no, it's not. Variation is random. Okay. That's different. And so like here, the technical idea is you have it organism. Mated organism they produce offspring. The offspring varies. The offspring's vary and some of those variations are more suited to the present environment. They're more likely to survive in reps. And so that's how evolution walks forward. It's like, okay. You might say well variations are random that's part of the theory. You might say the selection is random too. It. Just depends on the random walk of the environment. But the environment does not walk randomly. Here's why give you a specific example. So and Darwin knew this, by the way, this is what Darwin talked about when he talked about sexual selection. Darwin knew there were two selection mechanisms natural, selection, and sexual selection, and he was very interested in sexual selection and biologist basically Nord that for one hundred years after Darwin was gone, even there was really no excuse for that. Okay. So here's one way of looking at it. So our closest biological relatives are chimpanzees or bonobos. Whatever it doesn't doesn't matter for this purpose of this this explanation female chimpanzees are not selective. Maters? Okay. So they go into heat, and they'll mate with any male. And so the high status males are more likely to have to successfully mate. But that's because they chase the low status males away. It's not because the females are selecting the high status males. Human females. It's not the same not at all their hyperbole. They select for status and the prevailing evolutionary theory. One of them is that the reason we diverged from chimpanzees. So rapidly was because of a female sexual selectivity females reject most males. So which is well, we won't get into that. But. While it's part of the ternal war between the sexist, but the consequence is an increase in the rate of of evolution. Let's say, but but that's not that's not the whole story. So then you think well that's actually choice on the part of the females female choices driving human evolution. Okay. It's not interesting. That's a cognitive act. That's a conscious out that means that the spirit so to speak is selecting the variations random, but the selection mechanism is not it's not random at all. Let's you think women sleep with men randomly, which they do not okay now, but it's more complicated than that. So that's the female contribution start easy for females to size men up and men are tricky. So you know, they can use false signals to fool females. That's what you do. If you learn to be a pickup artist. By the ways you use us learn to use false signal not on early. But maybe work on your confidence to the women are trying to figure out who the high status. In our? Or the high value men? It's another way of thinking about it. But the men help because here's what men do get together in groups hierarchies, and they vote on who the best men are that is what they do. So like, you know, perfectly. Well know, you think the patriarchy is no press of tyranny, it's like, no, it's not that's not how it works. Like if you're on a team with a bunch of other guys. Everybody knows who the good players are. And it's not the ones who pound you flat in the parking lot after the game. Right. That isn't how you get to be the best player and in any collective enterprise that men are engaged in hierarchical structure, and the men communicate among one another and the high value men in that domain rise to the top. And then the women peel off the top. And so here's another way of thinking about sexual selection is the men vote on which men should reproduce. And so then you think well, then there's a spirit of masculinity operating in the background for an untold amount of years. Tens of thousands of years, hundreds of thousands of years determining who's going to rise to the top and propagate and the women are participating the men vote the women peel from the top. So then you think will what's driving evolution. Well, how is that not choice? How is that? Not the action of consciousness across time. I think what we have this idea that you know, God is the creative force. That's an idea. It's like well, see that's a place where I think the metaphor and the and the reality start to touch because the masculine spirits selects for propagation and females participate in that as well. And so well, so that's a deeper. What would you call? It a deeper investigation into the evolution of religious ideas. That's an amazing thing. So you could say, well, here's a metaphorical way of thinking about it as God, the father Select's. It's like, well, we have no idea. How true that is had might be really true. Then you think well, what makes a good, man? Was it power? It's like, no, it's not that is doesn't even make a really good animal. If you look at sophisticated animals, and you look at their hierarchies, and you look at which animals kind of move up the hierarchy if it's a complex social hierarchy. It isn't the most it isn't the brutes dominate that's one pathway to domination. But it's not a it's not a stable one. It's not an optimal one, and certainly not optimal among human beings. So what's optimal? That's the question. What constitutes a good, man? What constitutes that? Aggregation of character character traits. That increases the probability of rising to the top of hierarchies. If there's a large set of hierarchies, so how would you have to conduct yourself, for example, if I put you down anywhere and you wanted to increase your probability of being successful. I would say one thing you'd have to do one thing that would work. Two things that would work very well one you would be able to engage in reciprocal interactions. So that I did something for you. You do something for me. And the second is I could trust you reciprocity and trust. There isn't any more powerful ways up functional hierarchies. And so I think we're selected for that that's part of the basis of our innate ethic, and that's coated in stories. It's like so. So there's all of that. Well, this turned into the segue of segue. How did you know you loved your wife? Well, first of all, I would say, I don't know because I don't think you do know, you know. Mean there's there's there's manifestations of it. But it's not like, you know. I mean, I told my father when I was in grade five that I was going to marry her. So like, I met her when she was eight, and I was I was seven I guess, she was eight some she's an older woman. Don't know. I don't know. I mean, it's. Who who can who can articulated track attractiveness? You know, I mean. I found her attractive from the time. We were little kids. I wanted to be around her. She was very TV and provocative something that hasn't changed. But I can't say more than that. It's it's one of these mysteries that I talked about earlier, you know, things grip you, and you don't know what they are. You know, a little bit about what they are. And hopefully, grip you for better rather than for worse. And that's part of the adventure of life. And so something gripped me, and but I knew very young. And I don't know why that is exactly. So. So they were a whole bunch with this team. But I thought this one was worded the best. How can we get Seattle to not be so fucked up? That's easy. Stop contributing to it. But that is what I think, you know. I mean, that's one of the major themes in twelve rules for life. And it's like. And it's it's it's the theme of this tour. I would say to the degree that there's a theme is that, you know. So funny because all of the journalists that have covered what I'm doing virtually all of them, especially the negative ones. But but not only they always they have their value template, and it's politicized. It's right. But this is a political thing. It's like, no, it's not it may be it's collectivist versus individualist it might be that. But I don't think that's political. I think that's metaphysical its way deeper than political. If you think that your community is not oriented property, then get your act together because there's more to you than you think, you know, when you think well, what does it mean to get your act together? And this is sort of part of this issue values structures. What should value structure be? Well, there's minimum preconditions. You should take care of yourself. Like, you're someone worth helping that's rule number two, by the way. But you should take care of yourself. Like, you're someone worth helping in a way that would benefit your family that adds an additional set of constraints. Right. It's it's also a set of interesting challenges to take care of yourself in a way that works for you. But also for your family, and then if you manage that can get that organized than you, do you do what you can for yourself and your family in a way that benefits the community. And if you don't like the direction that the community's going it's like that's your problem and seriously, but it's also your adventure. That's the other thing. And I would say that the way you fix that is far as I can tell because you also want to do as little harm as possible you could go out and try to muck around with the macro structures. But I think that's not good idea. Generally, speaking, less, you're a real domain expert, and even then tread lightly. I think you start by. Cleaning up your damn room. You know, get the pathways. Well, you get the pathways. Like, you think room is a complicated thing, it's a place that you inhabited to place that you sleep. It's a place that you wake up and prepare for the day. It's place where you get dressed. It's it's a place where much of life occurs. It's like. If you can get that organized. So that it helps you be the person you need to be when you're in the room, then you started to play with the fabric of reality in a manner that that could have benefit beneficial repercussions if expanded and if you can't see the opportunity in your own room, then you're blinded by your value structure, because there's way more there than you think first of all it's way harder to to get your room together. The new thing it's a variant of the idea that a house divided against itself will not stand. Well, maybe you can't fix the whole house because it's full of other people, but you might be able to fix your room. And then you're not a house divided against itself. That's a start. And then maybe if you're not a house divided against itself, you can help your family, and then they'll be solid and then maybe with their support and their careful watchful eye. You built attentively move beyond that and do some things for the community that are actually good rather than self aggrandizing. Or or corrupt or incompetent or grandiose or or vengeful or resentful or or hostile or damages? You get the point like, so so if you're not happy with the direction than you got to think, well, that's actually your fault or even if it's not your fault. It's your responsibility. That's a better way of thinking about it. It's probably also your fault. But it's definitely our responsibility. And then you think one of the things I didn't write about this rule. It's probably going to go in my next book. This is a good thing to know opportunity lurks where responsibility has been abdicated if yeah. You think well, why isn't someone doing something about that? It's like, well, if you think that well, then there you have a problem. Why are you thinking that there's a million things you could be thinking? But you happen to be thinking that maybe that's your problem in some small way or maybe a big way because it's selected you as something that you're attending to it's a concern. Now, maybe you're a warped and bent and you can't trust your own concerns. That's certainly possible. That's actually, why think it's so important not to lie to yourself because I think one of the things that happens if you lie to yourself as you pathogens the mechanism that generates the value structure through which you see the world, and you do not want to do that. Because if you pathogens that structure, you're done because you make it habitual that structure, and if it's full of deception and falsehood, then you can't trust yourself. And then what are you going to do? You know, you're in a leaky boat and the sales are tattered, and and the storms are coming. You're done. So, but if you if you're careful, and you try to encounter the world in a in a in a truthful manner, then I think you can rely on your value structure to guide you to your adventure something like that. And so. Fix it, man. If you don't like it, fix it. If you don't like it, fix it. That's what to do. If you could learn a new skill. What would it be? And why? Computer programming. Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. That's a place. It's a terrible place of ignorance for me. Because there's lots of things I could do if I could coat, but I can't. So it's slows me down. And and. So that's one thing. That was literally the shortest ads are. By ever. Have you felt any changes within yourself since becoming famous? Oh god. Of course. I'm not crazy. Yeah. Well, first of all like terrified out of my skull for two years. So there's that, you know. I mean, I've been in a situation where I'm still in this situation to some degree where if I made a mistake, you know, which is highly probable because everybody makes mistakes that that all of this would come crashing down very very rapidly. You know, my job was in danger and had it gone. My clinical practice would have gone soon afterwards. And so are just escaped from that by the skin of my teeth and had I had any well, even this like I'd put up about two hundred hours of my lectures. Of course, once I got infamous, let's say people were going over those lectures with a fine tooth comb. And if I would have said anything vaguely reprehensible, even out of context across those hundreds of hours that would have sunk me, and so and then I've been contending with the press for a substantial amount of time for the last while it's the same thing. It's a high stakes game. And so so I've been I've been careful with how I speak for a long time. But I've really become careful over the last two years, and that's probably good thing. But it's not without its attendant stresses, and then just having to adapt to whatever the hell is happening because I don't really understand it. So I'm still have adapted to it. Because how can you adapt to something? You don't understand? I don't know what what's happening. I mean, what I think is happening is that I'm a clinical psychologist and professor and I've been working on ways to scale out. Right. So the I learned a lot about clinical practice smile area of expertise that personality theory and the great clinicians of the twentieth century, some of whom were also fantastic scientists and philosophers learned all sorts of things that were useful in relationship to individual personal development. And I've been synthesizing those and teaching about them. I think that's what's happening. And it looks like there's a market for that. You know? Well, it looks like it, right? It's not that surprising because you'd expect that these people might have learned something in a hundred years of thinking if you took the greatest people who are really working hard on it. And so what I think is happening is that I'm teaching people profound clinical wisdom, that's abstract and metaphysical, but also applicable to their lives, and that many people are trying to implement that. And it's working. I think that's what's happening. But it's it's very strange thing to to adapt to especially given all the rapid technological change that's happening at the same time. Right. Because you know, like. I'm very curious person. I'm always poking at things. And so that's what I did. Don't you to buy thought? Well, what do you think will have if I put my lectures on YouTube? It's like it was a new technology. It was easy to upload them. Sees the tape them. I had done some programs for public television, Canada that seemed to work out quite well. So I knew there was for some reason there was a market for it audience, not a market audience. I thought well, that's pretty cool. I can put up these lectures, and the only people that will watch them are the people who want to learn from them. It's like that's a good deal. It's like how could you want something better? If you were at educator, you have an audience that is only watching what you're doing because they wanna learn it's like that's the university right there, man. That's where it is. And so and then that just exploded well and then companies and then the podcast market exploded. And there's all these technological transformations in communication, and I don't know what to make of it. But what I'm? Hoping is just what I said. I'm hoping that I've synthesized one hundred years worth of clinical wisdom as well as I could because I wanted to scale psychological, interventions that was the plan to bring that wisdom to as many people as possible. Well, too many people as possible. So maybe that's what's happening. I don't know what the consequence of that's going to be hopefully, it'll be good people. Come to these talks. I talked to about one hundred and fifty people afterwards. And most people have a really good story to tell me. And I don't mean that. I don't mean, it's interesting. Although it is I mean, they say here's a bunch of ways. My life wasn't going very, well, you know, there's variance on that. And then I've been trying to adopt more responsibility. And I've been trying to tell the truth and get my act together. And I'm feeling a lot more hopeful. And everything is better. It's like good good. Great. Great everywhere. I go people tell me that story. And so I think that's a great place to be if you're the place where everyone is telling you that story that seems like a good place to be. And so I'm using that to judge what's happening and as long as that's the story that keeps emerging then. Then this looks good. And so I'm hoping it's good. Is there really a moderation? When it comes to using drugs is the really at moderation. Yeah. Oh, well, obviously, I mean, first of all. What drugs are you talking about? Because it's like drugs is kind of a star with weed. It's. Yeah. Yeah. Well, look, I mean I've seen lots of people messed up by marijuana. You know, I had a friend. I think it probably it certainly contributed to is suicidal psychosis. I would say now it's not exactly clear because he might have been using it to self medicate. So I couldn't tell if it was, you know, a chicken or egg problem if it was the part driving, the the slowly developing psychosis or the reverse, but I don't think pot was good for him. And I've seen number of people like that. That doesn't mean that I think it should be illegal because it isn't obvious to me that the best thing to do with dangerous things is to make illegal doesn't seem to work. Very well. And it's not like alcohol isn't a bloody catastrophe. You know about five percent of people who take a single drink to start with a single drink become alcohol and alcohol there isn't a drug you can possibly use. That's worse than hell. Call and I know the drug literature. I'm not saying that lightly alcohol is the only drug we know that makes people aggressive almost violent crime huge proportion of violent crime is committed by people who are drunk often on people who are drunk, by the way, you fifty if you're murdered. There's a fifty percent trance chance you were drunk. And if you're the murderer there's about a fifty percent chance you were drunk to actually the best way to get murdered is to drink with family members. So. It's actually I know. It's funny new it's funny. But it's also true. It's also true. So that's the one thing that's going to be recorded from. So well, yes. So if you look into get murdered. That's how to do it. Try it out special occasion. That's the best time to really. Look, if you're if you're using a substance, you know, and it's interfering with your life. Then that's not good. Right. So that's how you judge it. But it's kind of it's the case. 'cause then you're starting to over value it because values have to be balanced. You know, it's like, well, if you want to smoke pot once a week, and you know, and and relax listen to music or whatever it's like, well, okay. Go ahead. If you want to have a couple of drinks at the party with your friends fair enough, but you wanna belt down forty ounces of vodka day for twenty years. That's probably not a very good idea. People do that. By the way, I studied L call him when I was a PHD student, and we studied people so these were men and to be in our study, you had to be known L call, but your father had to be alcoholic and Soted at least two other first or second degree male relatives, we had lots of people in our sample whose fathers would buy. One forty ounce bottle of vodka day and two on Saturdays because they needed one for Sunday. And they've been doing that for years. So that that's not a recipe for good life. You know? So if it gets out of hand. Well, first of all it might get out of hand because drugs tend to get out of hand. But if it does get out of hand, obviously, that's not good. It has to be balanced. You have to be in control of it rather than the other way around and like with the with the wicked drugs like cocaine or methamphetamine, it's like you think you're in control. It's like he he you do it fifty times and see who's in control. And what happens? Here's what happens. It's really awful. So when you take drugs like methamphetamine, it produces a dopamine kick, and that that's a neuro chemical and the neuro chemical makes you feel like you're doing something worthwhile. Because dopamine is the system that mediates goal directed action. And so it makes you feel like you're doing something worth while. So that's why people love to take those drugs. But the problem is that so magin that there's a chain of neural events that occurs. Just before you get the hit from the drug. And then imagine that what happens is that the dopamine makes those. Circuits grow in proportion to how close they are temporarily to the drug experience because that's what happens. And so basically what happens is magin. There's a set of habits that you engage in cognitive emotional behavioral that precede the drug use and that that constitutes like a little family of biological circuits little personality little drug seeking personality. Every time you hit it with the drug that grows and growth and growth, and as it grows it learns how to inhibit all the rest of you. And then what happens is that? If so let's say here's what happens to chronic drug users. So that's in you. It's not psychological you've built it. It's a biological circuit. And it's there, and it's a live and it wants to stay alive and it wants to dominate. Okay. So now, you're all screwed up on methamphetamine. So someone throws you in a rehab center, and you go through withdrawal. And you're no longer. Zeal automatically dependent on the drug, right? So you're not going through withdrawal anymore. Maybe that takes a week or two weeks or whatever not craving it here in the rehab center fine. Then you go home, and you see your methamphetamine friend. Poof that cues that biological circuit. That thing hasn't gone away. That's the monkey on your back. It's not on your back. It's in your brain. That thing comes flying back in full force and the probability that it's going to grip your behavior and take you down the same pathway is unbelievably hi, everybody relapses. So you put them in a rehab center. They're fine. You take them out. And you put them back with their half witted drug-abusing friends. They're back the dicta just like that. And so that bloody system won't go away until it. Till another system is built to inhibit. Right. And that's very very effortle. Like, it'll degenerate it'll decay across time, but it's like months or years, and you have to build other systems to inhibit. And then if you get stressed those newer systems, coops I and the old will pop backup. So be careful what you do bitch Alie, especially if you reinforce it with drugs because that increases the rate at which the habits sets in so. Beware in the most dangerous drugs alcohol for sure that's killer. They the real dopaminergic kicked drugs heroin cocaine methamphetamines, especially in injected for men. Those things are dangerous you play with them at your peril. So the hallucinogens they're not addictive. But. What did you say beware of unearned wisdom? Right. This is going to be the last one. I thought this would be a nice way to end it. All right. We'll stay on. They would stay all night. That's got to be a nice feeling. You know, it just means. They don't have a life. He gets real at the end. All right. What does a really great day off? Look like for you. Well, I don't. That's a hard question to answer. I wouldn't say see it's hard to answer. This question without without sounding like vaguely ridiculous. Well, maybe sound vaguely ridiculous. I'm actually better working that I am not working like I'm a person that needs to be like work and flout out pretty much all the time. I don't seem to have more than two speeds one-speed is full on. And the other one is off, and I don't like off very much so full on his better. I do do things that I enjoy doing. But most of that involves spending time with my family. I would say, that's that's my recreation. You know, I have two adult kids. My daughter has a child. Now, we have a granddaughter I like to spend time with my kids I like to partner. So thank God for that. I spent time with my wife, I have this car that I like to drive around in listen to loud music, but I don't do that very often. We have a cabin that we go to sometimes north. But we haven't been there. I've been there like one day in the last two years, I think so that doesn't count much but. But even under those conditions. I'm usually thinking about something, you know. But that's okay. Because. I don't know. Leisure for me. I would say leisure is overrated. I'm I'd rather be working on something. It keeps me occupied properly. And so, but when I do try to relax play ping pong with my son, we go to the driving range sometimes. We barbecue. They're just family things. It's almost all family things. So that's that's that's what looks like for me. So. This is a funny mini goodbye for me because I'm taking three days off now, and I just lay in the pool, basically. So that's why you've written more books than me. But I'm leaving. You know, it's so funny we've been doing this for a while now, and you're going to debate Sam SAM's been instrumental for me, and my success in my growth and all that. Now, I feel like I'm leaving you guys have my parents kick the shit out of. But that's what it's all about. That's what the battle of ideas is all about so on that note guys, I'm going to get out of the way and make some noise, Dr Jordan. Thank you very much. It was a pleasure to see all of you tonight. Thank you for coming to lecture. Consider picking up dad's latest book twelve rules for life and antidote to chaos or his first book maps of meaning the architecture of belief available in text e book and audiobook format wherever you buy books next week a crucial conversation with US general Stanley mcchrystal former commander of the US forces enough ghanistan, we have important and careful discussion. But what leadership might really mean both occurred leaders and to those who are hoping to cooperative Lee and competitively accomplish the goals, they truly value in the future. I found it special operation forces you had big experienced personalities, and I found it would be better to say we have this problem. How would you solve it? And if they were anywhere close to what I thought was a workable solution. I would accept their solution because it was theirs. They owned it. They would implement it with a completely different level than if I had told them. Here's exactly what I want you to do. This this this and the reality is often they had a much better sense of than follow me on my YouTube channel Jordan be Peterson on Twitter at Jordan be Peterson on Facebook at Dr Jordan Peterson and Instagram. Jordan, be dot Peterson details on this show access to my blog information about tour dates and other events, and my list of recommended books can be found on my website Jordan, be Peterson dot com. My online writing programs designed to help people street note, their pasts understand themselves in the present and develop a sophisticated vision and strategy for the future can be found itself. Authoring dot com that self authoring dot com. From the Westwood One podcast network.

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Ep. 592 - Kanye Rips the Mask off the Left

The Andrew Klavan Show

48:00 min | 2 years ago

Ep. 592 - Kanye Rips the Mask off the Left

"President, Kanye west visited, rapper, Donald Trump in the White House yesterday or possibly. It was the other way around, but who knows since reality is clearly cease to exist in his signature dragon, energy style, Connie took the microphone from the leader of the free world saying, I'm gonna let you finish your term Mr President. But I, I want to say that beyond say, had one of the greatest videos of all time Trump agreed and immediately redressed the injustice by appointing beyond, say, chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, then I woke up even in real life. The meeting of two of America's greatest something or others that are surreal, quality to it, Konya wore maga- hat and compared it to a superman Cape which made perfect sense or no sense at all since it's almost impossible. Now to tell the difference, Connie also defended the second amendment which made sense though it made no sense that he was making sense and the paradox toward gigantic wormhole in the space time continuum causing reality to be sucked into itself. Then I woke up regaining consciousness. I. Saw the left in the news media, but I repeat myself reacting to the Donald summit with his usual affable goodwill and principal integrity or violent hatred, racism in hysteria as we used to call it before we fell through the wormhole in my previous dream and language lost all meaning former DNC chairwoman Donna Brazile said quote, and this is a real quote, assuming there's still such a thing as a real quote. Konya west is set us back one hundred fifty five years unquote. Of course. She's right, and now it's just like it was back in slavery days. When billionaire black men used to hug their friend, the president who had just finished improving the lives of all African Americans by virtually eliminating unemployment. Why not? Nothing is real anymore anyway after Connie as Oval. Office appearance, black people throughout America suddenly realized that Trump was a great president. Then I woke up trigger warning. I'm Andrew klavan, and this is the Andrew klavan show. Also saint. Thompson zippy's, so wonderful. All right. It is Mel bag day and it is also another kingdom. Oh my, I don't know what that screaming for anymore. You're screaming for another kingdom now to noon today at two pm eastern eleven AM Pacific. That's two pm. Eastern eleven AM Pacific for a special live stream of another kingdom season two episodes one and two episode. One will be free in its entirety. Only the first fifteen minutes of the second episode will be available to watch on Facebook and YouTube, but to be able to watch all of episodes to in every other episode in the new season of another kingdom, you'll have to become a daily wire subscriber. Just click on the link in the description. You can listen to them now hover, right? You can now listen to another kingdom. One episode season two episode. One into you can listen to them for free. That's for everybody so that that's how it all works out very complex, but there it is and let us talk also about Boll and branch. If somebody asked me today, this is absolutely true. Somebody said, how. How do you live without any sleep? And I said, I take naps while other people are expressing their opinions, but you know, the thing is you don't need sleep if you've got Boll and branch sheets because they're so comfortable, you just lie on them and that's all the rest you need and you don't need to spend a fortune to get the rest. You get great. Sleep starts with great right sheets and they're more affordable than you think with bollandbranch the right sleep sheets can take your sleep or your wakefulness and to the next level with bollandbranch that upgrade has never been more affordable. You know when these things just look great, they feel great. You wash them. They feel even better than they did before. They're just terrific each one of them crafted from one hundred percent, organic cotton. And that means Boll and branch sheets not only feel incredible, but also look amazing. And since they sell exclusively online, you don't pay that expensive retail market half the price twice the quality could of Boll and branch dot com today and you'll get fifty bucks off your first set of sheets plus free shipping in the US when you use the promo code klavan that's fifty bucks off. Plus free shipping right now at bollandbranch dot com. Spelled b. o. l. l. andbranch dot com promo code klavan bollandbranch dot com. Promo code Cleveland. So when you lie awake at night and ask yourself the big questions, like how do you spell claiming? You'll know it's k. l. a. v. a. and you know a lot of times here I think it is true. We pick on the left. I pick on the left, but today I'm looking at the country and where we are and I want to say to the left today, I wanna address anybody who's out there is a leftist democrat, I want to say, keep doing what you're doing. Just keep it up. Keep attacking black people who have their own opinions. You know, just keep calling him, uncle TOMS and minstrels and dumb negroes. Keep right on with that Democrats. I like it because I want all Americans to thrive, and I know black people are going to wake up one day and realized that in order to have respect, they have to give up their intellectual freedom and personal independence should just keep keep the women to keep calling the women gender traitors when they have their own. Opinions. You just keep telling them that their sons and their husbands don't deserve due process. The presumption of innocence just stick with it. Stick with the Democrats. I love it. I love your style. I want everyone to live the life that they choose. And I know women are going to wake up and realize you're turning them into whining victims in order to gain control over their lives. So just don't forget the gay folks do not forget the gay people keep telling them to strip their fellow Americans of their religious rites. Keep telling to try and silence anyone who disapproves of them keep turning them into homo fascist and we in the right will just quietly collect the gay people who just want to be ordinary people, ordinary Americans and be left alone, like everybody else should just keep at it and don't forget the mobs. Don't forget the screaming. And the mobs do not stop because I cannot destroy the credibility of your insidious anti-american philosophy single-handed, but you're doing a great job on your own. And let's take a look at Konya what the cognac the Yay Donald summit. I have to talk about this. It is just amazing the Connie. Summit and the reaction are both amazing and listen, Connie is a kooky are disguised. I'm not used and you know who cares about celebrity endorsements and all this stuff, but he is a popular man, and he's also he's obviously very kooky and his music is not my music. I'm not gonna. Pretend it is, but I was listening to him yesterday because it was a surreal meeting. As thing he just went off on this kind of goes on these rants and you know, you hardly know what he's saying. But in the middle of these rants I started to hear what he was saying and it actually, it was kind of moving, you know, it was actually kind of moving. And so he's sitting in the Oval Office of Jim Brown, the great football player, Jim Brown, and he goes off and he starts talking won't just listen to what he says. He's been wearing the maga- hat and everybody's attacking him for the maga- hat. I, it's the rate that helps you gay call. You know, the scary to not read his hat mall, breads, but his hat. Gives me it gives me power away. You know, my dad and my mom separated, so I didn't have a lot of male energy in my home and also unmarried to vanity. No Jeep doing youthful though, but there's a time. You know something about, you know, I love. I love everyone, right? But the campaign I've heard just didn't make the guy that gave get to see my dad all the time, like a guy that played catch with his son. It was something about when I put his hat off and make you feel like superman, you made a superman favorite superhero, and you made a superman Cape for me also got made a superman Cape for me. So I felt like a man, please catch with his sons because I didn't have that male energy in my life. I mean, that's a Jimmy genuinely honest and transgressive thing to say. I mean, he is telling you that, you know if anybody has stripped the black man of his manhood is the left. I mean, nobody on the right wants anything for black people, but to have families to be fathers to be men in among men. That is what the right wants for the black man bit, because because our ideas get rid of the race thing. The race thing is over, we got it. We get it. You know, this country had a major major change of heart in the sixties, fifties, and sixties. It had a major change of heart. It looked at it Soon's. It felt shame, it repented. It is now a different place and we on the right say, yeah, let's let that's leave that behind everybody's firm. Self men be men. Women be women do it. That's great. Who is telling them to be that you are so helpless? You were dependent on our welfare who is telling him, you know, oh, you can't you, you white. Women don't need a man of the home. Women need a man like fishing. He's a bicycle who's telling them that stuff who is putting their children at risk so that he wind up in prison and are taken off the streets and can no longer be part of the community. It's all on the left teach into quail at like, you know, microaggressions, what kind of a man. I'm sorry, but what kind of a man Quayle's microaggressions. Oh, women get our frayed when I walk into an elevator. That's your problem. That's your problem. Microaggressions are when men's step on them. Men wipe off their shoe. Us as they're going to accomplish the thing they want to accomplish in their life. And that's what he was talking about. The Trump gave him that feeling Trump gave him the feeling being. Now let's listen to the reaction on MSNBC from this cut six. When they heard that they were just absolutely shocked. Wow, okay. I'm doing this for everybody who's watching us who turned their volume down. You can put it back up again that. Thoughtful play-by-play and political analysis. You're not because that was an assault on our White House. We're not. We're not where we can analyze some of that stuff that was said, as we warned you at the top, there was a little bit profanity we there was actually more than you heard. We were able to bleep some of it out, but there was some of it did make it in there. That was crazy. I mean, the things that that Connie said with my favorite, yeah. How he talked about. He had a lack of male role models in his life growing up a lot of male energy, and he was drawn to maga- was because of the male without put the cap on. He felt like a guy who could play catch with his is laughing at him. He'd like that male power and we don't want any male power here. We certainly don't wanna father figures in the home. We don't want any strongmen showing young men out be men. We don't want that because that, oh man, that ruins everything is all me too. We're all victims for victims. You know it is. It is amazing. This is what they're selling. Connie of all people has ripped the mask of them off them. You know, he's ripped the mashed his now bear how racist they are, how sexist they are there to talk about prison reform and in his wandering, you know, monologue kind of hit on prison reform a little bit. And this is a big deal prison reform because there's something that conservatives can get on board with because. Back in the seventies and eighties because of liberal legal transformations lip the liberal supreme court. Liberal policing this big cities were a crime, infested jungle, New York. I lived in New York. During that time, you could not go outside without worrying about getting shot. You couldn't let your girlfriend or wife go outside without worrying. She wasn't coming home. It was a miserable. It was miserable, and then Giuliani and other mayors brought in com stat and brought in a no tolerance zero tolerance policing that they called it, that it was really just making sure they weren't small crimes that lead to bigger crimes and the crime stopped. It was a crisis, and they ended the crisis accepting liberal cities like Chicago, the ended the crisis, but like everything it had price had a price put too many people in prison. It wasn't mass incarceration. It was in forcing the law and breaking the cycle that was leading our cities to become unlivable like San Francisco and Portland or becoming unlivable today. But now now that the crisis has passed, it is. Time to think about the cost. When you take a young man off the streets, you may be punishing a criminal, but you're also taking away a father, a brother, a son, you're taking him out of school, you're taking him away from work. So now, let's think is there something else we can do? Is there some way we can rehabilitate people's? There's some way we can start to negotiate with these people because a lot of these neighborhoods have been cleaned up in the crime is low. We can start to think about that. It's good. So anyway, kinda did hit on this at one point where he starts, starts talking about racism. So his number thirteen. But lacks and African Americans, we really get caught up in the idea of racism over the idea of industry. You say, people don't have land, they settled for brands. We want. Pose for November. Again, we to brand more than we want land because we know how feels to actually have our own land and have ownership of our own blocks. So we don't have ownership then it's all about how something looks is about fifteen patina data about throw out about four. We focus more on somebody wear something to someone just back inside out. I got shoot up or the idea of some of being racist. You know, we talk about police. Of murders, which we definitely have to discuss, and we have to bring nobility to the to the police officers and make the police officers are just like us, but this whole hate building. Right. And that's a major thing about racial tension. We also at nightly, we have to take responsibility for what we're doing once again, that was kind of, you know, when you don't have land, you need a brand. I mean, that was profound to that back to that in just a minute. I wanna talk about twenty three and me. This is one of those things. Those services where you spit in the test tube and they take a look at your DNA until you, you know what they can tell you about your traits and also you can find out people that you're related to. I just want to say this was I did it. It was incredibly fun. It is incredibly fun. I found out I was Swedish midget, but I know I just made that up, but no, it's easy to do you spin the tube, they send you this kit. Even I could do it, you spin the tube, and then you you mail your saliva sample back to them, and then they just send you an Email. It tells you certain traits that you're more likely to have. It tells you people that you might not know you were related to put this all of this. You can do it all. You can say, I don't want this information. I don't want that or I do want this. You know, you organize, it is made for you, but it could just tell you all these really cool things about yourself and it's, you know, it's not. It's not going to tell you everything, but it tells you stuff that is really fun and interesting to know you can order your twenty three and me health and ancestry service kit at twenty three and me dot com slash klavan. That's the number two, three and me dot com slash klavan and they'll send your report tells you the first thing it tells you how do you spell claiming? It's k. LA and twenty to me what he was saying. There was saying there was actually profound if you don't have land, you need a brand. So in other words, if they all they offer you is identity instead of instead of accomplishment, and being somebody doing something in the world, and that's what he's talking about. I think it makes perfect sense of now we have to listen. Then he hugged the. And that's another thing that drove everybody crazy play. That is very short clip that. But I don't wanna take. I don't wanna put you in that spot. Has five love this guy right here. Let me give this here. Here. I love this guy right here. Yeah. Yeah. That's really an. That's a hard I didn't wanna put in that position, but that's from the heart, special guy that's to a special. I love those Trump's netted more you in the near Shapiro's like that too. You know, there are plenty of famous people who wander in there. Shapiro says, keep your head down. You don't have to tell people you like me because it will cost you and that's what Trump was saying to him there. That was the moment. That's the thing that drove them not. So let's go over to CNN. We're Tweedle dum and Tweedle even stupider we're, we're talking about this. I gotta go gotta go to Chris Cuomo. I because that was maybe one of the win some kind of EMMY for one of the stupidest moments on television. Do we have that cuts. Mike curiosity wasn't about what came out of his mouth. My wonder went to what was going on in Trump's head. Let's take a look at him. Here's my educated guess. Okay. Other than a warm serotonin flush of happy hormone, imaginary headlines, blacks, loved Trump is blacker than Obama. I certainly agree. This is a cartoonish situation, but look at Trump here yet again. Yeah, superman, sure I am. I can do anything I can save people. I wonder if images of hurricane Michael came into his head, then the people that do need saving. And here he is then this Chris Cuomo reporting from inside the head of the president, ladies and gentlemen, yes, this is Chris Cuomo inside the head of the president, reading his mind. I've got. I've got some racist thoughts going on what the hell is he talking about, but if that's not stupid enough and he wants them hate, you gotta go to done. Lemon heads could check him out. What I saw was a minstrel show today him in front of all of these white people. Mostly white people. Embarrassing. Himself and embarrassing Americans, but mostly African Americans because EV, every one of them is sitting either at home or with their phones watching this cringing. I couldn't even watch it. I had to turn the television off because it was so hard to watch him sitting there being used by the president of the United States presidents exploiting him and exciting. I don't mean this in a disparaging way exploiting someone who needs help who needs to back away from the cameras who needs to get off stage who needs to deal with his issues, a racist piece of garbage. This guy is so really, really awful, you know, so thing. But you know, one of the reasons I hope that Trump brings more black people into the conservative fold is is because we do want to hear from them. We want to know what is going on. We, we're, I'm perfectly willing to accept. That in there are some ways in which of the life of a black guy in America's different than the life of a white guy really willing to accept that. And if their problems we weren't offer conservative solutions, but we don't want to do what we do not want to do is turn people into victims, make people dependent and make people lock them into a philosophy because of the color of their skin. That is incredibly racist. I have to play this thing. There's a guy I think is he pronounces the name army and air that runs on me Horowitz and he does a man on the street and he went to Berkeley where I was where I graduated the UC Berkeley, and he interviewed white liberals about why voter ID laws are racist young white liberals. You ask them why voter, ID laws, racist, and then halfway through this, he goes to Harlem and asks black people about it is amazing, revelatory video. Listen to this. You think that's harder for black people to go online? They don't have the knowledge of how like how it works. Well, people have smartphones data for most of the communities. They don't really know what is out there just because they're not aware or they're not important. I also think there's a repression of like block voting with how they how if you're a convicted felon, like you're not allowed to vote and everything, and when you look at swing states like Florida, that's a huge population of the of the African American. Now I'm here and he's Harlem to ask black people, their thoughts on what you just heard. Do you have ID normally your ideal fit? I d. Do you carry? I d. Do you know what anybody any black for she doesn't carry it, you know, and one that I know, well, what they think we don't have. I think. That's a lot. Say that do you have? I had my and my friends have. We know we need to carry around the everybody that I know have. I like that's one of the things you need to walk around with New York. It's what let me that. You know, this has been created. This didn't happen accidentally. This was created by the media. This was created by the democrat party. This is not an accidental thing. You know, they're telling they're telling people, you know, black people are dumb. There's poor their primitive. They can't handle anything. They don't know how to work the internet. It's like, you know, it's like never met anybody. It is like they never met anybody with a different color skin. That is where it comes from this condescension this, and you know it is. It is just it is all on one side. If if more black people came over and became conservatives, they would find free, you know, answers to problems that might be in their community that include their freedom, their independence, the right to free thought and respect and respect for them as individuals as individuals, not as black people because who cares if you're black or white is respect for you as an individual add to this, this mob thing I have to. We've been talking about this thing in Portland. And we've, I've just seen videos of it, but today an editor from Quillet, is that how you pronounce? I cannot pronounce. His name is Indy NGO. That is his name go, I guess, go. But he is an editor Quillet and he wrote a piece for the Wall Street Journal about the leftist mob in Portland where he lives and he says they, they invited people to attend to protest because the Twenty-seven-year-old year old black father of three was murdered by the racist Portland police. Okay. So people have turned up for this and they start. And by the way, the guy who was killed by the Portland police had already apparently killed. Allegedly killed two other people. So it was like a shootout. It was not like some kind of evil thing. There's out there, shouting, stop, racist police terror, throw all cops in the trash, and they make their their make the way to the courthouse. And they marched in the middle of the street, bringing traffic to a stop. They got a seventy four year old man. This is the video that keeps it's been playing a seventy four year old man. They tried to stop his car and he stepped out and was assaulted by the mob. They pushed him and smashes car with. Clubs after he managed to get back inside the vehicle. No police were incite. Even though the central precinct was blocks away Portland resistance, a local social Justice Group, put out a call on Twitter, asking for the public to identify this white man and the they published photos of him and his license plate with the message, make racist afraid. Again, this guy's not a racist. He was just trying to get through this mob. The guy says, I've lived here my whole life, but I don't wanna go downtown anymore. The mob later occupied, a busy intersection. And when a middle aged man driving a car with North Carolina plates stopped and confusion, the agitators descended on him. You little white effort, shouted, one, of course, white man. You are a little white supremacist go back to North Carolina where you came from, this is the mob they over Portland, Portland, Oregon, which used to be a lovely city. The crowd targeted other drivers, you're lucky you didn't hit me. I would have beat you up yield a demonstrator. Another driver. One person punch the back of a passing car. Now, a block away. Here's the thing block away. Police officers looked on. On they watch this. Why didn't they respond? He and Ian Ingo contacted the department and they told him in a statement, it feared intervention would change the demeanor of the crowd for the worst of the police wouldn't do anything. He says, such lawlessness is increasingly typical here, so keep it up left these. We love this on the right. We want people to see who you are. We want them to rip you know the RNC's a new ad about this cut number nine, where they just show you because it's not just the mob. It's not just the man on the street. It's the people at the top urging them on. Here's the rat. UCLA dotty. Station, you get. Do you. I just don't even know why there aren't uprisings all over the country. Maybe they were being. You cannot be civil with a political party that wants to destroy, which would stand for the paramount drip in please get up in the face of some congress people in this quote, unquote mob. You know, the thing is says the left unhinged mob. The thing is that's a fair ad and there's no moral equivalence. You know, our friends over campus reform. We love these guys. Cabot Phillips goes out and he does these campus, you know, man on the street interviews. He went out and offered one hundred bucks to anybody who could name a time when conservative had tried to stop, left us from speaking. Listen to this. I'll give you one hundred dollars. If you can give an example of conservative students on campus shutting down liberal speaker. Hundred dollars of the top of my head. Any campus. I'm not aware. Yeah, I I'm gonna lose one hundred dollars. Can't. No, I don't think I can. I wish I could, but no, that's that's a amazing. So keep it up left these look, I, I'm gonna little long, but I want to end with one more thing in the room with Kanye west was Jim Brown. One of the great freighters football players of all time, and he came out afterwards and they asked him about the whole football thing with kneeling for the flag. And I want you to listen to this man's answer because this is the answer. This is the answer to the left with their euro black manual, a woman. You're a man. You know, this identity politics built constructed to tear us apart to set aside each other so they can get power while we're fighting among ourselves. That's the whole point of identity politics. It is racism with a smiling face. That's all it is. It's racism with a smiling face meant to divide us like all racism is meant to divide people. So the powerful conceives power. That is what racism is for that is why people instigating people. That's why guys like Putin sell it against the Jews. That is why they sell it against white men on the. Left. That's all racism is. It is just a means of going into your mind, using your prejudices to turn you against your neighbor, so they can seize power. Listen to Jim Brown's response to whether people should be kneeling and disrespecting the flag. I can be blunt about taking a knee. I, I'm an American. That flag is my flag. Things that I've overcome in this country allows make me a better person. I don't think that we should take knees and protests instead of standing up flag. I think we should work out our problems as a family. And that's what I would advocate to my children. Totally young people that I deal with. I am an American that flag is my flag and I want to present it that way. You bet. It's your flag, Jim Brown. You Boetticher flag. I mean, everybody this country. I don't care what anybody says. This country was built by people of thousand different colors, and it's being built right now by people of even more colors then before we are meant to be, he's absolutely right. We are meant to be the American family and the left does nothing but turn us against each other because the price, their price of their identity politics is you lose your individuality. You lose your freedom, you lose what it means to be an American. So keep it up left these because Americans are smart. They will figure it out. We got the mailbag coming up. I got to say goodbye to Facebook and YouTube come on over to the daily wire dot com and subscribe. We got the live streaming of another kingdom season two episodes one and two. And now. Now it's it will be out there for everybody to listen to. So everybody should listen to it. Come on, come on pitch it. All right. Come on over for the male. All right. The mailbag. Every time I hear it. I think about that truck veering off the that's why we play it. We blatant kill drivers from Heidi. Read q- it's, I don't. You know, I recognize that name, Heidi req- records. I know her. She's, I know from Twitter, she is. She wrote a book called honeymoon in Baghdad as she served in the army in Iraq and met her husband in Iraq. And so they had a love affair in Iraq. And now she is raising a family and so yeah, that's that's really funny. I just recognized the name as I saw it. Hello supreme overlord, Clayton and see she knows my proper name. That's why we've heard the democratic politicians. This is about the mob, tell their voters to do whatever it takes an order to win. Many of them have called for violence, and we've seen it first hand with these angry mobs. If Republicans win and take over the house and Senate, do you think the left will become even more violent? And at what point to conservative, say enough is enough conservative, seem quite common mellow and provoked there has to be a point where we break. I understand we need to be civil where the party values and morals, but we also can't be a punching bag for these guys. If the left becomes more via. After the elections, how do you see this playing out for us? All right. Well, as a two part question, first of all, no, in in one sense, there will be a faction that becomes more violent. But if if they lose the midterms, the politicians are going to realize that by playing to their base, they have lost the country. And once they realized that the politicians, I think will start to move become a little bit more central and move back away from these people who are alienating the rest of the country. I mean, that is what happened when you know when Nixon in the sixties, there was all the same thing violence, the riots and all this Nixon. Just one like every every vote in America. They got rid of him by other means, but he won the electorate, the people who the Democrats who came after that guys like Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton were in fact more centrist and they represented because there were southerners they had more sense of tradition and all that stuff. So that's what I think will happen to the party. They will realize the resistance has failed. A small group, a small group. Continually dwindling will continue to be violent and possibly more violent and look as in terms of our reaction. We have the right to defense. You don't have the right to go out and then -ticipant that they're going to do something wrong and cause violence in return on principle. You do not have that right? And it would be just as destructive to our side as what they're doing is destructive to their side, but you always have the right to self defense. You do have the right if you're swarmed by this mob to fight back and you certainly have the right to insist that the police protect you. It has never worked for the police to stand by and do nothing that never works. That idea is always very suspect to me. So I think listen, I think a victory for the right in the midterms, a full on house and Senate victory would be a good thing because it would wake the resistance up to the fact that has an Coulter would say, resistance is futile from Samantha. Hi, Andrew. Are there any red flags you think women should look for when they first meet a man? What a great question. What look plenty of obvious ones. Right? You want him to have a job or if you're in college, want him to have very decided. Goals. You want him to be a driven person, ambition, ambition, ambitious person. You want them to show up for the date on time. You want him to be polite. You want to not to talk the whole time. You know there's a, I think I shouldn't have to say this stuff. I hope you already know this. You want him to try to take his time to get to know you before he tries to jump on your bones, right? You know, it's like that the other things, I mean, maybe more subtle things that people don't know. You should definitely watch to make sure how he treats people who he may be, you know, have more power then like waiters in restaurants, like the valet takes his car. If you're living in LA, we have valets you take your, you know, you wanna see how he treats those people because that's very, very important. You wanna make sure that he takes responsibility for things. If he's telling you a story about something that's gone wrong in his life, and it's all somebody else's fault, you know, and the win really strange one. And I hesitate to say this, you take with a grain of salt, but if the guy is just too perfect, you know, shows up with the flowers pulls. Out your seat, opens the door. Guy should do all those things in my opinion. But if the guy is absolutely perfect, you wanna watch that. He's not moving on to fast. He's not stalker because stalkers present that way. I know I don't wanna. I don't want to make you suspicious of every polite lovable guy who comes into your Ken, but just just watch out that it is a thing that happens that people that stalkers play you by just being absolutely perfect in every possible way. So that's just one thing to look out for. But you know the the more normal ones, the job, making sure he's nice to waiters and all that stuff. Those are the things that you can look for from Carlos supreme chancellor cliven. Jordan Peterson equals of the internet's dad. I thought I was the internet said Dr. Jordan Peterson made a controversial statement that I personally find to be fair. He said, cavenaugh should step down now that he earned his seat to prove humility, save his name and help heal the national divides around him. It seems very much in the brand of Christian self sacrifice for the greater good. I'm neither for nor against this idea, but I also think people are really treating Pearson unfairly for this one, your thoughts, people. Did jump on Jordan for this. I completely disagree with him about it. I completely think it's is. It is. What is it? The Milton said that strain is of a higher tune? I all I can't remember what it was too high aiming to. Hi there. This was a hard fought battle and important victory against mob rule, an important victory for the process. I think when you get those victories, you should take the tear, keep the territory that you talk. I do not think that gesture would have been received with anything, but viciousness from the left. I think the left has to learn that it's techniques or not going to work. However, there's nothing wrong with disagreeing with somebody. You don't have to jump on the guy because you disagree with. I did see some stuff that was harsh and mean, you know, it's like we love Jordan. He's doing great stuff, and he's interesting has interesting things to say, and we disagree with that. You know that it shouldn't be. It shouldn't be that hard. It shouldn't be hard. You don't have to. You. Don't need a baseball bat to disagree with someone. You just say, I disagree love you, but you know your respect you. But with respect, I disagree. Did disagree with them on from Dave all hail, Cleveland supreme leader of the multi verse. Thank you. I shouldn't have to say thank you because it's just owed, but in your work, both as an artist. And as a commentator, have you ever seriously struggled with overcoming self doubt since your work as a novelist requires you to expose your creative ideas to criticism and your work. As a political commentator also requires you to expose your intellectual ideas to criticism. How do you manage to tune out the internal voice that tells you your novel might not be good enough in your arguments, maybe flawed. This is something I regularly struggle with, and I would suspect that your diverse career may have given you unique vantage point on the subject. I am bizarrely equipped with a complete indifference to how people I disrespect regard me. Okay. That is not to say when my wife and I have a system. When I read a book, I give it to my wife. She tells me what's wrong with it, a yell at her. And then I do what she said. You know, that's that's something I have to get angry for very about. What do you what do you mean is perfect. It's perfect. And then I just figure she's a great editor so I make most of the changes she wants it. You know. But I do have a remarkable capacity to ignore the opinions of people. I disrespect, which is a lot of the people who disagree with me. I feel very, I don't disrespect everyone disagrees with me. I disrespect people who don't have the principles that I believe are in fact principles, right? If you're out there, mobbing people. If you're out there calling people names if you're out there, you know saying that a black person is a minstrel because he doesn't tow your party line. I do not have any respect for you. I don't care what you think of me. I really don't. I really have that feeling. However, However, I hate to make mistakes I hated. I've come on the air a couple of times and got something factually wrong, and I hate that. I hate it when I, you know, like everybody, I don't like to have to change my opinion, but I will do it and I don't consider it weakness and you know not every book I've written is as good as every other book I'm aware of that. You know, sometimes you know when you finish something that's as good as it's going to be, you know, these are the things you live with. I think I think the advance. Which I have. And the one thing that can be taught and can be learned is a not a perfectionist. I work like a perfectionist. I work over every sentence every word I write. I work over everything. I do. I come in here. I do so much prep just to come in and talk to you for a few minutes. You know, I do a lot of prep and work, but I understand there will be errors that will be slips that will be things that are in perfect and I live with that. So I, I don't know if that helps. I do have a weird personality about this. I do have a very, very thorny outer sphere that keeps me from being devastated by criticism from John. I have a classic question with a bit of a twist. I very good in-laws, but my father-in-law and I see very differently on politics and current events will debate. And as soon as actual facts data gets brought up, he closes off and says, I don't want to talk about this anymore. So he's a leftist. Fair enough. I'm used to that. My wife and mother-in-law have encouraged, no more debate, which is probably for the best. But when we visit, they put on left-wing news or late night comedians. And then my father-in-law vocally agrees with how Republicans. Are stupid or Trump is horrible. And the second I say anything, it's no, no, we aren't debating. We get along great outside of this, but I'm at the point where I don't want to visit them anymore, and I'll be tempted to just stay at a hotel with my wife, which makes her sad rightfully. So can you suggest anything that will help? I know I won't be able to change his mind, but this is getting tiresome it is tiresome and it's rude. And I think you have to sit down with him to have a civilized polite conversation. We don't discuss the issues you start out with, look, we disagree. I respect your opinions. I understand that you see things from a different point and it's I don't want to debate with you fine. No debates, but it also is painful and unfair. When you do this thing when you put on these comedians and say, Republicans are stupid, then when I respond, you say, we can't debate. So how about having a little bit of sensitivity toward me and I'll have a little bit of sensitivity toward you. You can have that discussion because I think you know a lot of times, especially on the left, they do not hear themselves. They do not know what they do in. So certain that they're right that they don't understand that they're actually making a political point. They think they're just speaking the truth. I think you should have that conversation with them because it'd be. Shame. If you know this tore up your family relations from Zachary, dear Lord, klavan I know your vices guaranteed to work. So I was hoping you could help me. I'm currently an engineering student at a large public university this semester. I'm six hours away doing a cooperative education program at a job in my field, but I thought would be a good educational opportunity has turned into a nightmare as my bosses unapproachable and is terrible mentor who treats me like I'm an inferior being the whole situation has left me constantly tired and depressed, have no motivation to do anything. Even getting out of bed is a nightmare mayor. For me, I have not felt happy in a while and as hard to find help as my friends are so far away, it sucks because I fought so hard to get out of that hole I was in and now I'm right back in it. How should I go about dealing with my work? The next few months. And do you have any tips on helping me find happiness and feeling like the person I was before, you know this, I'm a little bit. This is a little bit strange to me. I quit. I mean, if there's if you can quit the job, there's no reason for you to be tormented. If you can't quit the job, if you can't quit the job and you're going to have to regard it as a test of your valour, an inner strength, get out of bed, make sure you exercise don't drink too much. Make sure you get plenty of exercise and activity and steal your mind. I mean, make yourself realize that you are under attack by a bad boss. Still your mind is only a few more months and don't let depression take you or anything like that. I mean, if you can quit quit, there's no reason for you to be tortured if you can't quit, if they're good and certain reasons why you shouldn't quit then take it as a test, say, I have got to be the guy who walks through this thing with my shoulders back with my head held high and with dignity and I don't get depressed and I make it through. And that's what you have to take take it like that. The only thing that really stopped me in this mail man was where you said. It sucks because I fought so hard to get out of that hole I was in and now I'm right back in it. So it sounds like maybe you're prone to depression or you've suffered from depression before, and that's a whole other matter that is something you might wanna have looked at and you might want to get some counseling about that. If you're proven to depression, you might want to find out what the cause of that is because it may be go beyond what you're in right now. Let me take one more from McKay. I am a conservative woman, a wife, a stepmom and a nurse. One of the rain main reasons on the conservative is the emphasis on individual freedoms freedom, however, many conservatives lump women into the mother category. I love caring for my patients being the one who cooks meals cares for the home in my stepchildren. So clearly a nurturing person. But I've always known that I don't want children of my own, and I have been told condescendingly that I will change my mind or that I just don't get it. I've taken a lot of time to truly examine why don't want children, and I've always come to the same conclusion. I respect the sacrifice. Mimimum women make the mothers and honor that it's just not for me. So my question is, how can I reconcile being a conservative woman. Not wanting to be a mom too many conservatives that is just wrong. I would never become a liberal, but one thing liberals are saying they conservative or not. Is it a woman has value even if she is not a mother? I, you know, I don't know what conservatives are telling you. You don't have value if you're not a mother, it's garbage. I mean, that's ridiculous. That is not what conservatives believe. What conservatives believe is that you have? You should live your own life lives an individual. You know, when I when I attack them as one of the reasons I attacked them is that I think a majority of women want different things than men they want. They want are more focused on relationship. They're more focused on the home. They're more they want children and they wanna take care of those children the around for those children. I think a lot of women want that in their hearts but are being talked out of it by feminism. However, what does that say about you? Absolutely. Nothing. It says absolutely nothing about the gene or, you know, Debbie or rose. You know, it doesn't say anything about her. She has her own life and our own desires, and she may not fit into that category, which is absolutely fine. You may want to work a hundred. Hours a day, whatever you wanna do is absolutely fine. The only reason I attacked feminist as I feel that they limit your choices, not because I under the guise of giving you choices. I feel they're actually denigrating motherhood denigrating, homemaking denigrating being the wife, which I think a lot of women, joy and pleasure and should be, you know, one of the choices available to people, but nobody should tell you what you want personally, what you want personally is entirely up to you and you have value in and of yourself. You're obviously from Mendis-led valuable person taking care of stepchildren nursing, you know, you're obviously a hugely valuable person and no conservative who was thinking conservative would tell you that you need to have your own children. That's absolutely ridiculous. If it's your mom, then you may hear that. I mean, I can't. I can't help you with that because moms want grandchildren. But you know, in in terms of conservative philosophy, the only thing I want for you as conservative is for you to live your best life free and complete and vetting other people be free as well. All right. We gotta get. The stuff I like. All right. Listen, you uncivilized heathens you, you do you punks. I'm gonna take my stuff and I'm a Jim. It's so far stuff. You're going to have stuffing coming out stuff for days or weeks or months, and you're gonna like it. We're looking for themes on here. What what on earth. I think you guys have gotten gone crazy. It's time to pick a theme song. That was Chris Heinz. All right, I got this quickly. I saw a movie called three identical strangers. It is a documentary. It is now available. I got it on pay per view. It's spectrum you can. I'm sure you can get it on Amazon prime as well. Here's here's the trailer, which gives you an idea what it's about. I wouldn't leave the story of someone else retelling it, but it's true reworded. It started and I went to college. It was the first day of school. All these people coming up to seeing, how are you any? I'm like my knees Mahan. You. I don't know what you're talking about. Suicide guy turned around. I knew it was that he's double said, you're not gonna believe you have a twin brother. I'm god. That's not come into it opens and there I am. His is is Mazar his eyes, and it's true story went from being amazing to incredible who's an article, two twins, reunited. I think I might be the third. When people ask me, what is the most remarkable story you ever encounter? I tell them it's the story of the triplets. So now you think you know what the movie's about right here was my experience. I watch this with my wife and I'm sitting there at this point when you get to this point where these three guys who've been reunited, which happens like ten minutes into the film. I said, wow, that's an amazing story. Twenty minutes later I said, why? How? This is an amazing story, thirty minutes later on. Are you kidding me? This is the most amazing story I have ever heard. This is an incredibly amazing story. It is touching it is it's just really, really moving and it's it's kind of it's about nature versus nurture, but it's also about the way the powerful treat people the way the powerful treat people with less power. It is an amazing tale and just very human, very rich and very deep. And I really recommend there's only like an hour and forty minutes, our thirty minutes, something like that. And just really rich and deep story. The documentary filmmaker. It is named Tim Worrell and I think he did a great great job and Lawrence, right? The journalist is in it who is terrific journalist, and he plays a major role in the story. But I'm telling you what you just saw, which is unbelievable is just the beginning. It's just the first plot point, and then it just gets wilder and wilder. And it's all true again tune in today at two pm. Eastern eleven AM Pacific for a special live stream of another kingdom season two episodes one and two. And after that they'll all be free for you to listen to. You can go on and subscribe. I think on itunes as well. You can subscribe on itunes, but please subscribe and watch the whole thing you. So it's so beautiful to look at. You get to see Knowles what could be more beautiful than looking at Michael Knowles. But also it helps us if you if you subscribe and you're part of the team, helping us create not just commentary, but now culture as well, which we all need go see the GAAS, no movie this weekend. Pick up my great greatest Mr. best mystery stories of twenty eighteen. I'm in. There as well support your conservative culture because I am your conservative culture. I met I, I am conservative culture and we will see you again. No cliven this weekend because you're going to be listening to another kingdom and watching Gosnell and Brian that book I'm Andrew klavan. I'll see you. You're on Monday. This is the Andrew claybin show. The Andrew klavan show is produced by Robert Stirling executive producer, Jeremy, boring, senior producer, Jonathan, hey, our supervising producer is Mathis Glover technical producer, Austin Stevens edited by Alex zinn. Garowe audio is mixed by Mike Corinna hair and makeup is by Jesuit Olvera, and their animations are by Cynthia and Golo and Jacob. Jackson, the Andrew klavan show is a daily wire forward publishing production copyright forward publishing, twenty eighteen.

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Competence Hierarchies

The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast

1:45:35 hr | 11 months ago

Competence Hierarchies

"Hi I'm Michaela Peterson. Dad's daughter and collaborator. Today's episode is a twelve rules for life lecture recorded in Birmingham UK on November seventh. Twenty thirteen I've named it. Competence hierarchies you'll see why this is a good one dad. Talks about dominance hierarchies. Competence hierarchies in the Animal Kingdom. And how we've evolved in our part of these hierarchies whether we like it or not for not a fan of these hierarchies archies. I think it might be because we're at. The bottom is an interesting lecture weekly updates not much on the parent's side. Everything is still slowly progressing in the right direction. Here's Michaela Tab. Ah hopefully you've already figured this out yourself. Stop Sleeping with your phone in your bedroom and start exercising each morning. I just started a couple of weeks ago. I wake up at six about an alarm clock with the light eight. I don't need the alarm part. The light wakes up fine so I wake up at six exercise for forty five minutes. I don't think it will always be that long. What I'm doing now? Most people could you in their sleep. It's basically leave Rehab physio my multiple surgeries in pregnancy. Have made me a very weak individual. But I do that. For forty five minutes shower wig scarlet up and I don't look at my phone phone until eleven. That's new it's outside of my room to avoid the temptation. I got the inspiration from someone named Chris. will ex on social media found him on instagram. He has a podcast called modern wisdom. That I quite like and think you would too if you're interested in optimizing your life. He's fairly new. But I think the podcast will be quite big. It's difficult to find true intellectuals and I think he's one of them check it out if you enjoy this podcast. I think you'll enjoy that one to modern wisdom. These small changes have improved my mornings and entire day dramatically. You could start by sleeping with your phone outside your bedroom and just see how it goes. It's not good for your brain to check it first thing in the morning and get overwhelmed by list of tasks you need to do in that day. Anyway that's yes it from Kayla tips for now. Enjoy your day. I'm going to be hiring again. I'm not kidding someone to manage this podcast. Actually I'll need someone in Toronto area. I'll be looking in the new year for this person. I'm going to be using Lincoln jobs. Help Look Lenton. Jobs allows for very fast screening and seems to be. The most organized is way to look at candidates for the job. You're hiring for over. Six hundred million members visit linked end. And one of those people will be able to help me out. I'm sure Lincoln jobs helps you identified traits like collaboration creativity adaptability interesting ideas the drive to work and include information like CD's and skills that someone possesses. It's hard to find someone conscientious with the drive to really try hard. Most people you manage won't work unless you're on top of constantly though the people listening to this podcast or probably people who have more drive of unusual. Am I allowed to think or say that. Find the right person met for Your Business. You can pay what you want. And the first fifty dollars on them. Just visit. Lincoln DOT COM Slash Jordan again that's linked dot com slash Jordan to get fifty dollars off your first job. Post terms and conditions apply. Competence Hierarchies Jordan Me Peterson. Twelve rules for life lecture before we do anything else. We just got incredible news just five minutes before the show started the the Foreign Minister of Sweden. You know this lady Margot Wallstrom. She just said that Jordan Peterson should crawl all back under the rocky. Came from. So this is a very special show. Little Chino. He crawled out of a lobster. Shell but how ridiculous foreign ministers are scared of this guy and you guys all came here. That is pretty great so so make some noise for Dr Jordan Peterson. Everybody the I think. The Swedish foreign ministers comment actually had something to do with lobsters. So maybe it was okay. I I don't know. Maybe maybe that's a hallmark of success. As a consequence of visiting Sweden. I was to be to annoy the Swedish foreign minister at that might be a good thing. I had discussion when I was there. I don't remember. Actually it was in Denmark or it was in Copenhagen or whether it was in Stockholm boat. The conundrum that the Scandinavians are facing now. They've they've done more than any other nations in the world to produce a gender equal society and one of the consequences of that. Is that the differences between men and women have got much larger rather than much smaller and and the scientific evidence for that now is so overwhelming that even psychologists from Berkeley have admitted that it was true. You and so you know that. That's that's true is something can get when it when it defies radical left-wing logic so thoroughly indisputably that even people at Berkeley can't deny it. Then it must must be true so but it it it leaves the Scandinavians in somewhat of an awkward position. But it's it's the same position in that all of the countries in the West and then in the world are going to be in as we become richer and our societies become more egalitarian in their provision of equality of opportunity. which is that men and women will get more different because that seems to be what happens when you give people bowl freedom of choice and then that drives differences in occupational choice for example and so one of the things were really going to have to figure we grow over? The next twenty years is what to do now that it appears impossible to simaltaneously maximize semis all outcomes and all opportunities because for a while. I think people hope that that was a possibility right right if you made your culture flat in some sense and removed as many barriers as you possibly could to advancement and to choice that that would make people more of the same. That would make outcomes more of the same occupational choice. Perhaps salary distribution of income and all of that but it doesn't look that is what the data revealing what they're revealing is quite the contrary contrary so. It was interesting to go to the Scandinavian countries. And have a chance to talk about that. And it'll be interesting to see how that rules out. Politically part of what's happening at the moment is that there's quite a movement his Scandinavian no doubt. It's happening here. It's also also happening in Canada to develop gender neutral kindergartens for example or gender neutral parenting styles. And I think that that's it's quite appalling personally given that I don't actually think that there's anything wrong with the fact that there's males and females which is a good thing since is there actually are males and females but I'm also not that concerned about it in some sense because I knew this twenty five years ago. If you take a vow feminists for example who have become mothers and who have decided that. They're going to treat their children. Boys or girls alike and you compare how they interact with their children. If you compare them to people who don't have the same doctrine you find that there's very little difference in the actual interactions because well first of all a lot of the way that you interact with your children. Children is actually a consequence of your children rather than near ideology you know unless you're a hideous parent because well yeah. I mean that that technically I suppose because you know if you have a good relationship with someone you actually personalize it to them right. It does look like in families that are functioning well. The dynamics between the parents and the children are very personalized. So even the micro environment of each child all this quite substantially different. You can tell that if you look at studies they look at the similarity of personality between siblings. So you could. I'd say there's three reasons that siblings might be the same biological similarity shared environment. So that would be what they share in common in the family and then and then non shared environment. That would be what happens to them. That's individual that their brothers and sisters don't also experience. There's almost almost new effective shared environment. You think well. What does that mean? Does that mean. That parenting doesn't matter because shared environment doesn't have much of an effect and well. No doubt isn't what it means. It means that you don't treat all your children the same because they're not actually the same and that's actually a good thing so you know these things like so many things that we discover if we apply scientific methods if it's to the analysis of various phenomena it turns out that they're much more complex and tricky than we'd ever imagined they don't necessarily line up with Thera a priority empirical our primary ideological conclusions and so anyways that's that was some reflections on the visit to Scandinavia. It's kind of a nice introduction. I would say into what I want to talk about tonight. I'm GONNA talk about rule one since I've come to Europe and I've done a dozen lectures now. This is the twelfth one and the last one in the UK. I've been working through my book backwards. I've work through it. This is like the ninety second city. I think I've been to and so I've worked through it forward. And I've worked through it by grouping different rules together together. I've tried all sorts of various because I like to make the lecture each night unique and different and get somewhere new but I'm down to rule one and it. It's it's a strange rule in some sense because I talk about things that people we don't necessarily expect like the biochemical similarity between lobsters and human beings that strikes non. Biologists is rather strange. I mean it's actually the case that a fair bit of what we know about biology in about human biology actually comes from studying creatures that are even simpler than lobsters. Crustaceans they're not that simple. Actually lobsters I mean he tried to assemble one from. Scratch your basement and you'll find that out you know. They're very very complicated creatures. And they've been learned a long time and so and they're alive just like we are and and you know at some unbelievably distant point in the past we shared a common ancestor. Not looks like about three hundred and fifty million years ago which is a long time way before there were trees for example Apple. It's a long time but there are evolution like once once biology conjure something up that works tends to conservative and it tends to conserve it for very long periods of time and so you can find amazing similarities between green creatures that have divert diverged from one another ages eons Millennia millions and billions of years ago billions is pushing it hundreds of millions and biologists. No this quite well. They study things like learning. Winging flat worms for example and flat worms are pretty damn primitive. They studied fruit. Flies in all sorts of creatures that have a short station period. So that you could look at genetic effects over time. Nobody ever questions whether or not the findings that the biologists produce as a consequence of studying creatures other than human beings are applicable to human beings. They're not exactly perfectly applicable because obviously there's variation among animals as well as similarities. But you know. The general rule is continuity in life. And you can be accused of anthropomorphic with regards to animals which is the attribution of human traits animals but that criticism really died a somewhat painful death back around nineteen sixty when when people realize is that the criticism was actually reversed. You should assume that animals and humans are like unless you have have reason to assume otherwise. That's much more in keeping with the notion of biological continuity across the species so I've been accused of anthropomorphized causing lobsters for example and they are quite a bit unlike human beings but in some interesting regards they're quite similar and in in the first chapter. I was actually trying to make a point about that. Like a serious righty points but one really serious point and it has to do with hierarchies and so the first thing I want to do is talk to you. About hierarchies the most real things that you encounter aren't necessarily the things that you can easily see like numbers are a good example like mathematicians like to debate the reality of numbers and normal people are included in that discussion to some limited degree and make numbers are obviously a form with abstraction. But then there's something that's truly real about the I mean once you lay out numbers and you can start to manipulate the man they give you a grip on the world like nothing else and so the discovery or invention of numbers. What was it was a discovery or was it invention well? That's not so obvious but most mathematicians I would say would go with discovery and it's like it's not something that you see a number you can taste or feel or sense in any concrete in any concrete way the same way you would detect an object but number is real and and really truly real in that it gives you a grip on the world is one way of thinking about what constitutes real real is useful. That's not off the only way of thinking about what's real and so there are lots of things that in the world that are real that aren't evident to your senses and definitely one of of those things is hierarchy and chimpanzees for example and this is true for lots of primate groups. They really understand hierarchy hierarchy position and so for example there are aristocrats among most primates and their peasants. That's one way of thinking thinking about it. It's quite hereditary. And so if you happen to be a rather large juvenile peasant primate and. There's a rather small juvenile aristocrat primate. You'll tend not to pick on him and the reason for that. Is that your nervous system which has done a very good job of mapping the hierarchical relationships between everybody near true knows perfectly. Well that that little primate that you could take out in two seconds is connected to a bunch of other ones that will tear you apart if you make a mistake. And so Primate nervous systems are very not just primate nervous systems but complex mammalian nervous systems are wired to respond to the existence of hierarchies. He's with modulation of motivation emotion. So the perception isn't direct. It's not so much that you would see something but you would you. Would certainly Ali experienced it emotionally. You'd be afraid for example or maybe you'd have respect whatever whatever that might be whatever that might be among animals and you know one animal if you have two dogs you know one of them's dominant. So almost always the case and I don't know what a non dominant dog feels towards the dominant dog. But it's something like respect. It's something maybe there's a bit of fear there but it's still an an a perception that's embodied in emotional reaction so anyways you can perceive hierarchies even though you can't see them you do perceive them and it's unbelievable and deep deep parts of you perceive seve them and now I wanNA talk about for I for a minute about about. Why hierarchies in some sense are both prevalent and inevitable? So let's start with prevalent. See the problem with most animals is that they're competing for scarce resources. And so you see hierarchies form to allow for preferential access to scarce resources in the the at absence of continual combat and so chapter one. I've been criticized by people who haven't read the chapter for for only for comparing human beings to lobsters and for making a case that just because lobsters are hierarchical doesn't mean that all other creatures are first of all. I never said that all other creatures were I said that a very large preponderance of creatures across a variety of species are and that human beings are as well chickens are for example. So if you're a farmer and you feed your chickens. The chickens that get the the chicken feed I started the same chickens every morning and then so the aristocratic chickens get their food. First and then the second rate chickens get there the hangers on get their next. And then the sort of bedraggled low status chickens get there's last and you might douse well. Why did the low status chickens put up with the second rate feed announcer? That is that it's better to be a little hungry and have have substandard food than to be a little hungry and have sub-standard food and be pecked to death right. And so animals. Organize themselves into hierarchies around scarce resources. So they don't add continual combat to the problem of scarce first resources right. So it's better to know your place not that it's necessarily pleasant or good but it's better to know your place than to be continually continually fighting at risk to your very survival for that place and so it's also the case. Once hierarchies established that it tends to be pretty stable because the cost of disrupting his extremely high now competitive animals especially if they're interested in advancing their mating opportunities. These will sometimes take the risk to make a move up the hierarchy but they do that extreme peril and so they do it very carefully. So one of the reasons is that we produce hierarchies that hierarchies are spontaneously. Produced is to produce something approximating stable peace in the face of scarce resources resources. Now you get hierarchies that form even animals that aren't very social like songbirds used them. As an example in the first chapter Rennes little birds. I don't know if you have Rennes in the UK you have written in the UK little birds. They're very feisty he'll knock other rams off author purchase. They'll fill other birds houses with sticks. They're very territorial. And what the reason the birds care about territory is is because if you're a bird while territory matters and so what do you want if you're a bird while you want to put you somewhere and you want where it's not too windy and it's not too cold and it's not to Sonny and where the rain isn't going to rain on it too much. And that's far away from predators so those are high quality nesting and maybe close to food. You'd be a plus and so there are high quality nesting places and you can imagine instantly there's a hierarchy of high quality nesting places right because summer some are going to be better than others across all those parameters then there has to be some competition that determines who gets access to the high quality nesting areas. And that's exactly what happens. More feisty physically healthy dominant birds that have the most sort of threatening wing song because that's part of what song is it means here. I stand attack singer of my prowess at your peril herald right and so and then those birds attract mates that are of high quality because the mates are looking for a high quality nest best in a good place to have some eggs and then those chicks are more likely to survive and if avian virus comes sweeping pink through the population the birds die from the bottom of the hierarchy upwards and the reason for that is that the birds out the bottom or stressed. They they don't eat as well. They're more stressed by predation. They're not sheltered as well it cetera immune logically compromised and so if something then comes along that will affect birds that the birds at the bottom die and it's the same with human beings. There's an old saying when the aristocrats kratz catch cold to working class dies of pneumonia right. And that's that's actually that's technically true. Who is a great series of studies done in the UK called the Whitehall studies? They're very cool. So it was done on two sets of civil servants about seventy five years apart. Imagine there's a hierarchy civil servants and there's like high status civil servants and then there's low status civil servants that are barely clinging onto their job. And then you track them across time and you see WHO's most likely to die and the answer is the civil servants along the bottom. Okay so now that was the first Whitehall study and then the second Whitehall study was done seventy five years later and what was so cool about it. was that by the time. The second study was done which was actually rather modern times. The average living standard of the low status civil servants in the Second Study Ati was probably higher on average than the high status civil servants in the first study right because everybody had just got so much richer so the absolute level of wealth off had gone way up but the relative risk of death remained unchanged so one of the things that's really rather brutal about hierarchical. Organizations is Asians is that they are associated with mortality risk. And so that's part of the reason why we tend to regard them as real now all right so now. The next question might be well so you have animals and the reason they organize themselves into hierarchies because they compete for scarce the resources and they have to do that in a manner that stabilizes the competition without undue conflict so that makes reasonable sense and you might think he might think that the same thing would be true human beings so it's a matter of and you might think well the the animals do that by by by expressing power and that the same thing is true of human beings on the first thing is is that it's not exactly obvious that the more complex animals structure structure their hierarchies purely as a matter of power let's say physical prowess in the ability to physically dominate another animal. So here's a primatology. Matola gist who I admire. Greatly named Friends D wall. And he's studied. Chimpanzee hierarchies to try to they. They tend to have a more masculine structure. So the most dominant chimpanzees tend to be masculine although there is a female dominance hierarchy as well and some of the female champs are far more dominant imminent than some of the male chimps overlapping hierarchy say but at the very top ten to be males. And it is the case that if you're like AK- quite staggering physical specimen as a male chimpanzee that's a non trivial advantage in establishing. Let's call it dominance or or prowess or authority. Because you know we might want to use a plethora of words just to make sure we don't close off our interpretations too early. It is the case that that gives you a leg up in the striving for position and that in turn gives you a leg up with regards to access to food and also to preferential mating opportunities and so the more higher you are in the chimp hierarchy the more you are likely as a male to leave offspring. It's not because the chimp females are choosy. jozy about who they mate with by the way which is quite interesting because a chimpanzee females. It's ready to mate because they have mating cycles estra cycles they'll pretty much mate with any male but the dominant males chase away subordinate males and so they accrue the opportunities to themselves. It's it's one of the things that makes human beings quite unlike chimpanzees because human females are selective maters and that's a mead that's a that's a major perhaps even the major difference that's driven us apart over the evolutionary landscape over the last seven million years it may not be the only thing but it's a major driver driver anyway is one of the things wall showed quite clearly is that brutally tyrannical chimps tend to meet terrible end young. And why is that well. I don't care how strong you are as as a as a particularly Arnold Arnold Schwarzenegger chimpanzee but to subordinates. three-quarters your strength can easily take you out on on a bad day. And so that's exactly what happens in chimps are very very strong and they're hunters and they have very powerful teeth and they tear each other apart so when to subordinate chimps decide they'd had enough they've had enough and they go after top tyrant. It's it's not a good day for him and do all has documented that in some brutal detail in his multiple books on on the emergence of morality attention pansies actually very very good books very readable and and well worth attending to one of these. He's one of the scientists striving to produce something approximating a biology biological account of the emergence of morality. And there's lots of biologist working on that idea and with a fair bit of success. As far as I'm concerned what the wall found instead was that the chimpanzees males tend to engage in reciprocal interactions Shin's with other males so friendly reciprocal interactions. Which means they have friends from the chimpanzee perspective and chimps to hang around together the other and they have relationships that can last for multiple years and they groom each other and they do support each other in battles and all of that and so there is there resist arrest of prosperity at work? And so if you happen to be a male chimp and you're pretty good at reciprocity and you have like a bunch of allies. Then you're I know you're part of a nice chimp gang and that means that some big monster solitary psychopath chimp can't take take you out so easily. And that's that's a very very interesting thing to contemplate when you're making claims for example that human hierarchies are fundamentally based on power and that's a claim that's made all too often in the modern world with our insistence that our culture for example there's nothing but a patriarchal tyranny which implies that it's uni dimensional hierarchy and that the only thing that regulates position in that hierarchy is something arbitrary power to very very uh-huh pathological view of human society. I think it's motivated by very questionable. Motivations the vacations and it's certainly predicated on an anthropology. That's under informed to say the least. Now once you get to the human level things get even more complicated. Because a friend of mine had worked with for years I talked a lot. About dominance hierarchies in my lectures Jason in even in twelve rules for life I talked about dominance hierarchies and that was that was a mistake. My friend who's he has a just so you know. He has a master's degree in engineering from MIT in a PhD in psychology from Harvard. So He's a very bright guy. Aw he said you shouldn't use the term dominance hierarchy and I said why not. It's the standard terminology that's used in the biological sciences. And he said Yeah. But you know you you don't know how much Marxist thinking it infiltrated the biological thinking and affected the terminology because it's not obvious hierarchies are predicated. Hey Don dominance exactly hierarchies exists. But whether or not their dominance hierarchies. That's a whole different story. That's an assumption. And I thought God I I don't WanNa hear that I've been using the idea of dominance hurricane for like twenty years. I don't WanNa have to rethink that. So I was annoyed at him for like a month while I was rethinking this through and then I stumbled across the phrase competence hierarchy and I thought. Oh that's much better. That's much much much better. You know when you see US and other animals to this competence hierarchy. So there's these cool birds you could look them up. If you want to look up a cool bird. I don't know what you're doing later tonight. But these birds called Bauer birds and they're fascinating birds. And so they have hierarchies two the males range themselves into a hierarchy and then they display themselves for the females and the females come by and check them out but they don't use power so what about our bird does is it makes this really fancy nest that sort of hangs from a twig it's woven together and then it's lined with something soft often. It's really quite an architectural masterpiece given that a bird had to build it out of sticks with its beak. It's really something and then what they do is they. You make a front yard. They sweep it clean and then they decorate it with so. Maybe there'll be a quarterback that's covered with red pedals. Maybe they'll go find some green greenglass if the cabin and they make a little decoration out of green glass Ni artfully displace twigs over here. And and it's a fairly big like the bird is a decent size is and so the whole Bauer bird yard is about this big. And then a fair number of birds in the same vicinity and then the females come and visit each Bauer Bird Art Gallery and they stand there they look birds. Look out of what I know. They have one I for predators and when I for the things that they eat by the way which is quite interesting so if you ever see a bird with the wrong I and then your lunch are the bird is hoping would be but anyways that females come in is the display may fly off you know. Check out another one if the display attracts made than the Bauer Bird. The male bird is all thrilled but if like five or six females come and go then the Bauer Bird has a little bit and terraces. This is nasty part in races all artistic production and then he does it again and so. That's damn cool. And then there's this other creature called pufferfish. She don't pufferfish is it's like a fish you know. For God's sake it's a fish this is what the bloody pufferfish does. You just can't believe this is. There's a great video of this. Some of you may have seen this quite gone quite viral because no one can believe at this pufferfish. He goes to the bottom of the ocean the deep as he can go anyways. There's still light down there. And then he makes this amazing like sculpture in the sound. It's about each. He's this big. It's about eight feet across and it kind of looks like you know those rose stained glass windows. It's Kinda got it's not detailed like that doesn't have images of Christ I did it. You know. It's it's just made out of waves and eddies in the sand. But they're quite deep deep and they're very symmetrical and the damn things almost perfectly round and that fish he goes in there and he picks up like stray shells and stuff with his kind of like a beak and spits them out and he and he does all this by waving his fins. He's got fairly powerful front fans and he does all this digging by waving his fins in his tail and he looks at his creation Asian and swims up and he adjusts this part of it and that part of it that's also tracks mate and so the idea of it that it's it's it's that hierarchical position based on power is the only regulating factor for the construction of hierarchies that allow allow access to scarce resources. Turns out to be quite wrong now even animals and it's really wrong and people as far as I'm concerned because first of all all this is part of taking the idea of the patriarchal tyranny apart. I hate both parts of that phrase. I don't like the patriarch apart and I don't like the tyrannical part like the patriarchal part because it isn't obvious to me that human cultures solely the creation of men seems to me to be somewhat of a sexist presupposition to begin with. Because I don't think women were just sitting around doing nothing except being oppressed until nineteen sixty two. When Betty for Dan Dan wrote the feminist mystique and all of a sudden they emerged onto the world stage at doesn't strike me as a plausible description of the course of human history and The tyranny part is like well this is our culture the tyranny that's what we're describing it's tyranny compared to what exactly it's like it's not perfect. No Society is perfect. That's for sure. Every society tends towards blindness toward stultify towards a certain degree of corruption and a given hierarchy condemned be taken over by people who only use brute force and power but that's actually a sign of the degeneration integration of the hierarchy naught a signal of its appropriate effectiveness. What we do is human beings first of all? We don't exactly live in a world world where we're competing like animals for a finite set of scarce resources. Scarce resources can be a problem. There are some zero sum games games. But we're we're also pretty damn good at coming up with new games with new rewards a new rules and also producing a whole aura of goods that we didn't have before so it's not a zero sum game and what that means is we don't have one hierarchy. We have many diverse hierarchies and there's many ways that that you can climb to the top hope to climb to the top or at least move slightly upward in many different hierarchies and so I like to take take apart the idea of the tyrannical patriarchy by thinking about it in the more high resolution manner and I always think plumbers are are a good example. Because plumbers have a hierarchy they're successful plumbers and unsuccessful. Plumbers and so there's a hierarchy in terms of wealth. Let's say some plumbers have hold like sequences of plumbing shops right. They become like plumbing magnets. And why would that be. It's like well. Hypothetically they know how to fix pipes that might be like requirement number one but then obviously they know how to hire employees and they know how to keep them and reasonably happily. Because you don't hear very often of sweatshop plumbers being or plummer slavers flavors who have their plumber employees laboring away in the basement with someone cracking the whip at them. You know. It's it's usually fairly. What would you say free exchange among a plumber and his and his employees and then generally if you're going to be a plumber and you're going to survive for any length of time you also so have to treat your customers with a certain degree of decency and respect and honesty? You have to do the job you're hired to do for the money you were promised that you promised to charge and then it actually has to work because otherwise people write bad reviews on yelp and so forth and then soon you're not successful and so and then it's pretty obvious that if you hire a plumber you're not doing it to to participate in some sort of power game aim except perhaps in the most abstract possible way higher a plumber because well you don't want sewage in your house and that seems important right we could all more or less S. agree that that's an individual and collective good and so the plumber is servicing that particular need and then you might phone some some people that you know are some contractors you know or whatever and you say well do you know what good plumber you don't say. Do you know the most powerful plummer in the neighborhood you say. Do you know a good plummer. And then you get a recommendation and the good plumber gets even a little bit more business which puts them even little higher in the hierarchy of plumbers. And you don't in have roving bands of tyrannical plumbers linked arm arm in a patriarchal. What would you call golf links coming to your door insisting that you hire them or else and I would say as ridiculous as that? Ah Images our society is composed of. Many overlapping hierarchies of that type. Almost all of them based to some degree on competence and usually a competence that we can measure to some degree that we collectively agree upon is a form of competence. I mean sometimes it's arbitrary. You know there's a hierarchy of basketball players obviously some can do it professionally and very few tiny tiny percentage of basketball players can do it professionally and then if you take tiny percentage of basketball players who can do it professionally nationally. There's even a tinier percentage who happened to be superstars. Type that can manage a multimillion dollar career over over several ears vanishingly small proportion of people and it's pretty obvious that being able to bounce a basketball and put it through a hoop is a rather arbitrary Tori skill right. I mean it could have been different game in which case that particular athlete might not have been that good at it but even if we just generate some arbitrary the standard of value like basketball which isn't entirely accurate it has to do with this let prowess in the ability to to hit the target which is a very important thing in life but you get a hierarchy that's produced around something as arbitrary that instantaneously and no one ever questions that it's just it's it's built into the structure of the things that as soon as an and here's the reason for hierarchies this is what's built into the structure of things. You have a problem. Actually I have a whole set of right. You need to eat. You need to have fresh water. You need to have shelter. You need to have company you you want on some luxury you want some adventure there things that and some of these are like strictly necessary there things you want but a lot of them are necessary if you don't have the muren pain you're anxious you suffer so you want to address the suffering. That's a problem. In order to address the suffering. You need need a solution to the problem. What people are going to offer you and what you might offer other? People is the possibility of solving a problem individual problem and one that we identify collectively as soon as you admit. There's a problem and a solution needs to be put in place. And someone could offer writ you immediately. Produce a hierarchy of value because it becomes valuable to fulfil that requirement and as soon as you produce that hierarchy also so produce a hierarchy of talent because it turns out that no matter what pursuit you determined to pursue and then implement collectively you will inevitably produce an unequal distribution of talent instantaneously construct a higher. And of course. You're going to do that. How how else would you do it? If it's an important problem design computer chips for example sample. It's turns out to be a very difficult thing. And you get one hundred people together and you WANNA designed a computer chip. The first thing you should do is figure out which of those one hundred people actually knows how to design a computer chip. And then that's the person that you should put in the forefront of the hierarchy unless you don't want to design the computer chip and it's pretty obvious at that sort of level of technical prowess who's barely able to manage it whatsoever whatsoever and who is absolutely stellar in comparison and if your company or your project is operating in a let's call it it in a in a functional and honest manner and it's pursuing a valuable goal then it organizes itself so the people who are best pursuing that goal occupy the positions of not power but authority. And how else would you do it. The alternative is well. Everyone is the the same. Well that doesn't work because the talent is unequally distributed and it also doesn't work with regards to decision making it's like if you're in a company of new one hundred people and maybe you have to make decisions day more than one. That's for sure. Let's say fifty so you're going to get everybody together all all hundred people and they're all going to discuss fifty options. And then what are they gonNA do. They're going to vote or you're gonNA come to consensus. It's like well voting. Even then you you have a hierarchy. You have the people who won the vote against the people who lost. So what do you have to come to a universal consensus about every decision in the absence of a hierarchical structure. Uh well if you want to drive yourself absolutely stark raving mad then you set up an organization like that and the empirical literature actually suggests quite quite clearly that people are happier at work more satisfied in less anxious when they're in a functional hierarchy where the lines of authority are clearly delineated. Now that assumes assumes that people observed that there's some relationship between the hierarchical structure and competence right because that's what validates the hierarchy parakeet at least in principle competence. Okay so now having said that I would also say so we. We need higher than I would say. Well this can help us understand political idiot to some degree. There are differences between people who think in a conservative manner and who think in a liberal left manner. There are temperamental differences and some of them have to do with attitude towards hierarchies and some of them have to do with attitude towards boarders so the liberal left types are rather skeptical of borders. They're skeptical of conceptual borders around words or concepts because they they don't like things to it'd be locked into one place. They liked the dynamic interplay between ideas because they like new things to be generated. And there's real utility in that especially if you're locked in a problem that you cannot solve you need to disintegrate your categorical structures and restructure them so that you can get yourself out of being stuck and move forward so there's real utility in that breath whereas the more conservative people. They look we've got these things in their boxes in their nested boxes. Even things aren't working working too badly. So let's not muck about with the categorical structure any more than we have to. Let's keep the borders between things intact at at every level of conceptualization. Right up to the political itself because the conservative types tend to be more more supportive of the idea of solidity. Did the of borders. Let's say we're the liberal types. NO WE WANNA make the borders permeable because we want free flow of goods and ideas. And it's like who's right and the answer is just depends on the circumstance sometimes. The borders should be tighter. The Wall should be higher and sometimes the border should be looser and more ideas should move back and forth. It depends on where you are in your culture right. If things are getting too structured and rigid time to release the the borders time to make them more per meal. But if everything's falling apart and everyone's confused it's like well maybe you want to shore up the institutions to some degree and the question is how how the hell do you know what an answer is by arguing about it and I'm absolutely dead serious about this. This is why think fundamentally mentally why. That free speech is the canonical freedom and responsibility because if there are these two goods hierarchical Caracul structure or borders. Let I'm using borders. As an example at the border solidity versus border permeability each of which which is advantage advantageous at different stages in cultural development as years roll by then the only way to decide if your position position properly as a culture on that continuum between those two opposing views is to have it out. And that's what we do. That's exactly what we have elections the left-wingers they have what they say what they have to say it. So my God they also do the same with hierarchies so the right wing tends to and its associated with. Is this idea of maintaining categorical integrity. The system is working pretty damn well the way idiots and mostly it's based on competence so don't mock about with it and the leftwingers say yeah but it's tilting towards tyranny it's Kinda stoltifying blind and the people at the bottom. Don't have as much opportunity to rise to talk as might be good for everyone right and they also criticise even the idea of hierarchy itself because one of the consequences of producing a hierarchy. This is an inevitable valuable consequence. Is that the bulk of the two things. If you produce a higher. The bulk of the creative work is done by a small minority of people people. That's the first thing the square root of the number of people who are doing a job do half the work that's the rule that's the principal and so it's a really. It's a killer rule man. 'cause it means if you have ten employees three of them to have to work. Everyone understands that but if you have one hundred ten of them do have to work and if you have a thousand thirty of them do half after work and so and so. That's a killer principle. It also explains why large companies tend to collapse right because once you get up to one thousand nine hundred in seventy people who are only doing half the work and thirty that are doing the other half and then your company waivers a little bit. You know you have a bad quarter and the thirty that are doing half the work. Think thank Chow Man. We'll see you later. I've got opportunities elsewhere. And then you're left with the nine hundred seventy people who were only doing half the work right instant death spiral and that happens to companies way faster than you think. In any case you get this creativity distribution which I just described and that's rough but you also get get an income distribution problem. That's the same. And so that's why it's exactly the same principle so and it isn't necessarily that the creative hard workers are also the ones that get the most income and start like this one to one relationship between those things you want it to be close because otherwise you're hierarchy isn't functioning worth a damn but it's not going to be identical antica because no system works that way people gerrymander the system and sometimes people get paid more than they should and sometimes people get paid less because no system is perfect but in any case one of the consequences of producing hierarchical entities is that a disproportionate amount of the revenue the goods the wealth flow to a tiny minority of people. And so that's why you have the richest thirteen people have as much money as the bottom. I think it's two billion something like that. And you have the infamous one percent. You know that control the vast majority of wealth. You're all in that one percent by the way just just so you know because all you maybe not all of you pretty much all of you to be in the top one percent worldwide. You need an income of thirty two thousand dollars a year. So you know who's in the one percent depends very much on how large you make the population pool and a little bit disingenuous. I would say to say well. Let's reduce the geographical locale locale across which we're calculating comparative incomes until were poor despite the fact that we're actually not and so that there's a one percent that's way above us us and we can assume that they are rich. Some pathological manner. It's like if they're rich and some pathological manner. Then so were you there richer so so maybe they're better at it than you in their pathological boundary but historically speaking and even in terms of comparison across the world. It's definitely you so and I don't think that that's necessarily such a bad thing in some sense because some people have to be rich. I before everybody can be rich at all all and you might think. Well that's a hell of a thing to say but I don't really think it is because if you look at what happens to consumer prices for example. He want some gadget like a fifty five inch TV. It's like what you can get one of those things now for probably two hundred pounds. I mean they're. They're very inexpensive but when they first came out they you were like twenty thousand pounds or fifty thousand pounds right early on one hundred thousand pounds and so only the rich guy up the street had one. Well it's a good thing. There was some people around that had access pools of capital because they would have never bought things to begin with and driven the price down so that the rest of US could afford them. And so one of the things things that's useful about rich people as they could produce a market for really cool things that you get to have a little later and you don't get as much status for it but at least you you get the damn thing not something so okay so the right. Supports hierarchies and borders conceptual categories likes to keep them relatively intact and there's reasons for that and the left says wait a second. The categories are too rigid. We're don't let information flow. The hierarchies to corrupt. Plus there's all these people who are stacking up at the bottom. That's the other thing that happens. In higher cases that not only does is a disproportionate amount of the goods. Let's say flow to the top but the largest number of people stack up close to the bottom. And so then you have this eternal no problem of this inequality and that can get so that can get so steep that it actually threatens the stability of the the hierarchy itself is one of the things we know is that if inequality Stevens to much especially if there's no way of moving from the bottom to the top then. The young young men that are trapped at the bottom get violent and so even if you're a conservative type one of the things you might think is. We don't want to steepen the damn hierarchy too much. And we don't want to restrict access to mobility too much because then the people at the bottom. They have nothing to lose. And one IMP. If you have something. The only person that can beat you is the person who has nothing because they have nothing to lose and so you don't want to have too many people around that have nothing nothing if you have something. Because they don't have anything to lose and so even if you're just selfish capitalist you might think well you know. Let's keep the painful full inequality to to some moderate minimums so that the whole damn thing doesn't destabilized part of the reason. So so there's a bit of a validation for left wing and a bit of a validation for right wing and and even more validation for the idea that you need to communicate across those different political viewpoints and one of the things you might also be interested to know is that those political viewpoints are not entirely but in large part influenced by biological factors So this is a cool thing and it's only been figured out in about the last fifteen years so once we got a decent personality model the same models by the way that have been used to show that there are gender differences in personality and that they maximize as societies become more egalitarian. Same Line of research. We found that conservatives tend to be high in a trait called conscientiousness and conscientiousness is the second best predictor of socioeconomic. Success US after intelligence. What's important predictor and into predictor of marital stability and and life satisfaction like? It's good to be conscientious. Makes you a little will square. That's a good way of thinking about but as a long term strategy orderliness and industriousness and the Conservatives are particularly high orderliness and that seems to be that proclivity to keep things where they're supposed to be right and conservatives orderly orderly types. It isn't that they're afraid of disorder. Exactly that was a theory. That was very current among psychologists for a long period of time but it turned out that conservatives actually less neurotic liberals lower a negative emotion and so the whole fear thing didn't didn't pan out very well but what seems to maybe be the case. Is that conservative types. Who are orderly are sensitive to disgust and so that wind category boundaries are violated the emotion that they experience is discussed? I kind of a judgmental disgust and so I found that extremely interesting when I was reading biography of Hitler I read this book. Called Hitler's table talk breath. That's a very interesting book. It was a collection of his spontaneous speech just diatribes. Let's say at at mealtimes in the evening for from I think nine thousand nine hundred thirty nine one thousand nine hundred forty two and they were just they were just recorded by S- by Secretary so you just got a sense of what Hitler thought about everything and he was a very strange person because he was very high trait openness which actually is a liberal trait. He's very creative person surprisingly early enough but he was also extremely orderly and so a devotee of willpower. Right so he's very proud of his ability. For example stand in the back of a car going through hordes of people that we're worshiping and to stand like this for like eight hours at a time. He saw that as a signal application of will wheel and he was also obsessed with hygiene based four times a day for example and a lot of I learned this I took apart. What happened is Hitler? What would you say? Accelerated his purification strategies. So one of the things. The Germans did right off. The Bat was to institute public health programs and so they produce these vans that would go around and do TB screening so. They're trying to get rid of tuberculosis. Seems like a good thing. Pathogen concern driven by disgust. And then the next thing they did was decide well wasn't clean up the damn factories too many rats to many mice not enough flowers too much dirt and so they had the Germans fumigate the factories to get rid of the vermin. They used Zyklon Zyklon. Think eight there were two variants. One Zyklon was used in death camps and the other was used as a general Israel insecticide pesticide and so that's where that started and so they start to clean up. The factories seemed like an okay thing but then they decided they're also going to clean up the the mental institutions and that was starting to push the envelope. Let's say a little bit too far right and then that just went completely out of hand and if you read what Hitler said it's absolutely fascinating. Because He. He regarded the the Aryan race as a body that was his central actual metaphor body that was under assault by pathogens. And so that's why he was always talking about purity of blood and so his desire to eradicate wasn't listen driven by fear it was driven by disgust and it was a consequence of excess orderliness. So you can tell that to. I mean if you look at look at how they're not what's he arrayed themselves in their in their political displays at Nuremberg for example. which was this massive display area? Huge grounds owns where all the Nazis would gather in perfect squares. Right absolutely perfect thousands of people lined up in absolute precision and then when they go stepped in March it was everyone was exactly the same orderliness gone mad and orderliness is actually one of the sine line of a of an industrialized society. And that's one of the things that makes that so terrified because it also means that part of what drove the Germans to for for example to their high levels of engineering excellence for which they were absolutely renowned not only in World War Two but certainly even now was that orderliness that that unbelievable able orderliness and the thing is it can get seriously out of hand and so that's a fascinating thing to know. It was one of the most shocking things I ever stumbled across as a social scientist scientists and really. I really found it quite alarming because there's a reason to be orderly and discussed sensitive and the reason to be discussed sensitive is because you want to protect yourself from from from foreign pathogens. You have to because you'll die. It's certainly the case that many times in human history where cultures this came together that had been separated. The results were absolutely catastrophic. That happened to Europe with the bubonic plague. For example it happened to the North American Indians when the European Pinch showed up right rife with syphilis and all sorts of other diseases mumps and measles and smallpox right ninety. Five percent of the native Americans died lied so many of them died that by the time the pilgrims came to the east coast. The Indians were desperate to have new people. 'cause they couldn't even get their crops off. So Oh well so. That was all very frightening because it showed that what happened in the case of Germany was at least in part. The elaboration of an instinct that was designed in fact to protect people from from from actual pathogenic pathogenic exposure just gone too far and of course everything can go too far conservatives are higher in conscientiousness especially orderliness and their lower trait openness and openness the creativity dimension. And if you're an open person you tend to like aesthetics tend to like philosophy you tend to like movies you tend to like literature you tend to like art you have a sense of it you know and you also are are interested in ideas for their own sake and that also makes you someone who knew if someone throws you an idea. It'll six or seven. Ideals will make themselves manifest professed near imagination so the boundaries between ideas are more permeable for creative people until SORTA be conservative. You have to be relatively non creative and you you have to be orderly and to be liberal especially on the left as you move to worst laugh then orderliness goes down and openness goes up because all you see is the a utility of moving laterally across borders something like that. And what's so interesting about that. Is that both of those are or extremely useful sets of traits. Because sometimes you should just do the things exactly the same way that everyone has always done them for time immemorial to Hell L. of a fine strategy if it's already worked keep doing it. But sometimes that's fatal and so then you need a creative person who's willing to transgress against the boundaries and generate generate. Something new so that you can get out of your now counterproductive box. And so it's the same thing with regards to the political dialogue that by described earlier except now it's dialogue between biological types. Should we stay the same or should we change. We don't know so we better talk about it. And so and that's why again free speech is so absolutely necessary because that's the mechanism by which people who truly differ like truly differ can come to some reasonable consensus and keep the whole ship of state. Relatively on course now. The reason that I talked about lobsters in particular with regards to hierarchies because I was trying to make a criticism awesome. I was trying to put forward a criticism of Marxism. But it was a funny thing because this is in chapter one still. It was a criticism of Marxism Marxism. That I was actually trying to make from the leftist perspective. So let's say for a minute that you accept this proposition is going to be hierarchies. And their problem solving tech social technologies. Okay now but they have a problem. And the problem is that the problem of inequality and the problem dispossession of those at the bottom. It's a big problem. And Maybe WanNa do something about that. And maybe you should because because why not have some compassion for people who were dispossessed especially the case for children. Because it's not obvious maybe you're dispossessed because you've never done a lick of work in your life and you deserve served be barely clinging to the edge of reality because of that and I'm not saying that that's the primary reason that people become dispossessed petite is one of them there's many many reasons ill-health bad luck. God there's there's an endless array of reasons that that can throw you down to the bottom old age can do that. And so can extreme youth and you know it's not necessarily such a good thing that dispossessed children's stack up at the bottom because they don't what have the opportunities they might need even if you're just a greedy capitalist. Well that's foolish because maybe you want those kids to grow up invent something like new and luxurious that you can have the no one else can have right. So so it's it's a fool's game to keep people at the bottom. If you can allow them access through their competence and talents into something approximating the top and so what that means in part is we can agree that something should be done on behalf of the dispossessed and so we can say well. There's a valid reason for the existence of the left-wing as long as it doesn't go too far just like there's invalid reason for the existence of the right wing if it doesn't go too far and so if you're leftist and you're actually care about the dispossessed it then you need to understand how hierarchies work and you don't get to be all Marxist about it because the problem with Marxism as far as I can until the problem. There are many problems with Marxism but this is a big one. Is that it attempts to lay the blame for hierarchy Kabul hierarchical dispossession at the feet of the west and capitalism. And that's wrong. It's a way worse problems than that. It's far worse problem than that. So hierarchies are unbelievably ancient and the problem of dispossession therefore equally ancient and the idea that a radical restructuring of society among lines. That for example aren't capitalist. I is somehow going to magically rectify hierarchical inequality. That's a fool's errand we even. We know this. I would say eh answered logically as well for example. If you study Paleolithic gravesites and Paleolithic Times. Let's say that's it's ten to twenty five thousand years ago. Something like that you already see massive evidence for inequality. Some of the people in the grave sites are buried with a substantial amount of Paleolithic treasure. Often metal you know because you could imagine metal especially gold silver very hard to come by and a very very tiny proportion of Paleolithic corpses are buried with almost all the gold and silver. And you can't attribute that to the vagaries of of capitalism. It's a much much deeper problem. And then you put that in the context of the entire almost entire animal kingdom where you also see hierarchical structures and you see radical dispossession and radical inequality in the distribution of resources. You come to the understanding that this is a far deeper problem then can be rectified. Rectified by mere criticism of say the West or capitalism this iron law of unequal distribution Russians applies to all sorts of weird things. Say so it's not just it's not just animals and people man it's stranger than that. So a tiny proportion of all the stars in the galaxy have almost all the mass right. It's the same with planetary bodies even in the solar system a small number of planets have almost all the mass even. There's lots of planets to those who have more will be given even works on a cosmic scale same with plant size in the Amazon Amazon jungle. Same with the size of cities. A tiny proportion of the city's have almost all the people. So there's an iron law of distribution here that Preto this Paredo his name was economist. Originally mapped out and something that marks noted when he said that capital tended to accumulate in the hands of fewer and fewer people but he didn't really understand as we should understand it was it was a single example of a much much broader and more complex problem so I could take a second even just to outline the problem and how it works out here. Think think about this smashed. We did this match. We give everybody in this room ten ten dollars and then you had to play a game with each other and data. This is the game you and you played the game. And you're going to sell him. You're GonNa Exchange invisible bananas because you don't actually have a banana so you have to use invisible ones what you do. Is You flip a coin. And if if you win then you have to pay a dollar to you. Get the invisible banana when you get to know. You don't have a dollar and so we just have all of you. Play this game randomly and soon what we find is everybody starts out equal because everybody has ten dollars dollars but pretty soon like some people have eight dollars and some people have twelve dollars. And then you're in trouble if you have eight dollars you've only got eight good bits left but if you have twelve dollars twelve good bets left and then you play a little longer and well. Soon some people have eighteen dollars some people have to and then you play a little longer and some people hit zero. And there's a big problem with zero because suzy hit zero. You don't get to play. You're out of the game and then if you keep playing the game you you just run it right to the end then everybody stocks have zero and one person has all the money and you've all experienced that because you've played monopoly. Right that happens is in every monopoly game. Mostly it's a game of chance and you know that because the same person doesn't always win but doesn't matter that it's just a game of chance what happens as you get a very rapid development of a pro distribution everybody stacks up at zero and one person takes everything and it's not like our economy is as simple simple as monopoly game but it's not a bad low resolution analogy which is why we find it somewhat amusing as a game okay. So that's that's all about hierarchies and boundaries and political differences and the reason for free speech and all of that and I'll close with this. The purpose of chapter one was to make those points at least in part that was the purpose but it was also to set at this stage in some sense for the rest of the book because there's a claim in chapter one claim you should stand up straight with your shoulders back and the critics of my book. Aw who who usually criticize chapter one. Because I said before because they haven't read it but if they have read it that's all they read because there's certainly let me plenty to object to the rest of the book they seem to assume and maybe this was my own flaws. A writer that I'm trying to make a case that usually use power to be dominant. And that's not the case that making all the case that I'm making is that that's actually the very unstable way of achieving position in a hierarchy especially if it's a competence hierarchy because if it's a confidence hierarchy than the best way to to attain authority status is to be competent. Then the question is what does it mean to be competent. We already kind of talked about that with regards to being a plumber. It's like well first of all might not be such bad idea to have a skill that you could trade with other people that seems to be kind of pro social requires a little discipline on in your party makes useful to other. People doesn't seem to be anything particularly wrong with that. But that's not enough. You also have to be able to trade honestly in continual reciprocal trickle interactions right. So you have to be a fair player. Let's say and I think there's plenty of evidence that the most stable way of positioning yourself properly in the long term in a reasonable hierarchy is actually to be fair player. I think there's an echo of that when you tell your children. It doesn't matter whether you win or lose it matters how you play the game because what you're actually telling your children is don't sacrifice the opportunity to be a major player in a series of games for the opportunity to win a single game. It's very wise advice because really what you're telling your kids is. It doesn't matter if you win this game. It matters if people bloody well WANNA play with you right right now so now you know that when you tell your kid the next time. It doesn't matter whether whether you win or lose matters how you play the game and they look at you like they have no idea where you're talking about you can tell them you want to be invited to play as many games as you possibly can. And and the way you do that is that you play fair you play reciprocally. And so that's predicated also off a certain kind of ethic you know and that was the ethic that well I tried to outline that in twelve months for like generally but to at least provide the bare bones about in the beginning chapter. There's a certain amount of courage that that requires a certain certain amount of of the willingness to open yourself up to the possibility of the world to trust other people for example. which is something that you have to do if you're going to engage in reciprocal interactions with them? You have to extend your hand in trust even if you've been bitten a few times you know you don't stop petting dogs because a couple of dogs bit you just deprives drives you of the pleasure of having some some interactions with dogs and it's the same with human beings you've been bid a couple of times no doubt but you still extend your hand entrusted Austin. You hope you can start to establish a reciprocal relationship and if you have some skills and you're good at establishing a reciprocal relationship and you play fair and you have the courage. That's necessary take to do that. And to take on important problems and to solve them. which is part of I would say adopting proper stance in the world which I tried tried to portray metaphorically has standing up straight with your shoulders back? Then you have the opportunity to take your place properly in the hierarchy and and also to ensure that it functions optimally and maybe it's even the case that if you do that particularly well you'll generate enough wealth so that the people who were dispossessed at the bottom won't fall completely off the edge of the planet and that you can set up the situation so that you can provide the means by which people can move move up the hierarchy if they have the talent and ability and if they don't to provide them with other opportunities which is something that people are also quite good at. You can't play basketball. Maybe you can play chess. You know we've got many games. That people can participate it and so hopefully at least to some degree. Everyone has the the possibility of finding a place I know that. That's not entirely true. And that some people labor under so many sets of restrictions that they're pretty much impaired heard in relationship to any conceivable game and something has to be done to stop the suffering. That's associated with that. I mean we can agree on that but that doesn't mean that that doesn't mean that our culture is fundamentally a patriarchal tyranny and it doesn't mean that the fundamentally the the fundamental way that you can sort yourself for example if your mail is through power and it doesn't mean that the proper or even most common route to authority and position and in our highly. Functional hierarchies is. Toronto is the tyrannical expression of arbitrary. Domination I do by any of that. I don't think it's valid biologically dialogical sociologically. I don't think it's valid anthropologically. I think it's a very narrow and motivated viewpoint and I think it's very very hard on people and so I would say instead as I did in chapter one that better to adopt a stance on the world where you stand up straight with your shoulders back the open yourself up to the possibility of interacting with each other and acting appropriately in the world and take your proper position in a hierarchy of competence in that manner and keep everything moving forward in the proper way so thank you very much all right. Let's dive right into my friend. I love this first question. I don't know how we have not gotten it before. How strictly do you adhere to the twelve? Rules changes to go through them. Well you know when I wrote the original series of rules there were forty of them on night. Published them on a site called Kwara and they became very popular. And I wrote down things that I felt that were were true and also practical invalid. They were maxims. Let's say that I had attempted to abide abide by. Mostly I think because I decided that bringing excess misery on myself and my family was probably a rather counter-productive strategy and so I think I abide by them. As well as I am able to and hopefully as I practice I get slightly better moment by moment day by day at doing so and everyone makes mistakes. That's for for sure but by and large said I'm not interested in any more misery is read the necessary. I'm hoping so I try to live straight but not too narrow life the best some serious silence right. Do you believe that. Finding a romantic partner for life is a human necessity. Well it's obviously obviously not necessity because people swap romantic partners quite frequently. So you don't die when you do it. Although sometimes people wish they would sometimes they wished the person who departed. Die Too the but I do like humans are a pair bonding species. That's quite clear. There's some variation between individuals in that proclivity. You know I think both the biological reason for that is that there's a variety the but because our children are dependent for so long they're just too much for one person and so in order for us to survive men had to become quite domesticated and quite maternal. And that's made us all susceptible to extremely tight bonds. You know one of the things. That's quite interesting the circuit that Barnes you circuits and we don't have circuits but it's not a bad shorthand the circuit that born you to your partner. His the adult dolt remnant or the adult continuation of the same circuit that bonds mother to infant. And you can tell that by the language that people use when they when they talk fondly of the romantic partners you know they use baby deflore example and they use the same terms of endearment for their romantic partner that they might for a very young child. It's the same underlying circuitry. It's part of the care circuit. It was outlined very nicely by a neuroscientist named Yuck Pink Slip. If you're interested in that he wrote a great book called affect of neuroscience which is on my reading list which is on my website. And it's actually like it's a serious text but it's actually very readable. It's it's accessible bowl too. I would say it's accessible to committed. Lay people you know who don't have expertise in that area and to really wonderful wonder through the biology Laghi of love and pair bonding and so so. That's sort of on the biological end. We've got we've got the the nature for it But then on the spiritual end most societies have attempted to sake relies instinct and to to make it cultural and psychological as well as biological and so we do that with with marriage and we make the claim that perhaps it's better all the things considered to ally yourself with someone in some permanent sense it disciplines you it provides as you were someone to depend on in sickness and in health. This is a very useful thing and it can help you by a good marriage is sort of like endless wrestling match and you want someone to contend with. Right isn't isn't that people are looking necessarily for ease and comfort with their partners. They often wonder apart from one. Another if things get too easy and comfortable you want someone. You can wrestle with contend with and the reason for that in part is because there's development in that you know optimal challenge and hopefully what happens if you ally L. I.. Yourself with someone. Is You have someone that can continually challenge you to be better than you are so that you together can be better than you were. And then you have someone to like you know you have the story of your life and it can get kind of frayed but you want it to be continuous and you want it to be aiming at something you want it to have some some tensile strength and resilience and if you can wind that together with someone else's story then you have you have a you have a cable that the cable that makes up your life to stretch a metaphor I suppose is it can stand stanmore tension. It can stand more more trouble and so there are gives a depth to your life. You know this is why you know people think of marriages trap especially when they're young sometimes when they're older they think about it this old fashioned. They think about it as just a piece of paper which is unbelievably shallow. Way of looking at it. F- anyone ever says that to you should just slap them right then and there. That's nothing but a piece the papers and so so because it gives profundity tweet that yeah. I haven't been in trouble for ten minutes. So yeah so so it gives a profundity to your life you know to to share. You're with someone. Over a long period of time. It gives the gravity and gives it a reality that otherwise lacks the fragmented relationships are by necessity superficial. And it's not that you don't want your life to be superficial because it's aw superficialities no defense against pain. That's really that's really why and so and it's good for you to care for someone you know. It's like one of the things I realized a long time ago is that people don't grow up till they have children of course people don't have children hate to hear that you can in grow up if you don't have children but it's very difficult because in order to grow up someone has to care you have to care more about someone else than yourself. It's like the definition of it's it's not. It's a necessary but not sufficient precondition for metro station. And you tend not to care for someone more than yourself till you you have a child and then it really hits you. It's like no no no. It's like this person is more important than me but you can get some of that with someone that you're committed to you know. I think that attempt to pay attention to the other person tried to ensure that their life is anymore wretched and miserable than necessary is actually. It's good for your spiritual development and you know that's an old fashioned idea spiritual development but it's not much different than psychological development and to develop your spirit spirit is to become a more potent force for good in the world and there isn't anything better than that and you can definitely practice that with someone unto whom you've to whom you've committed yourself to sacrifice to it's like an sacrifices necessary it it it it marks things out is important and it's also something to have someone do that for you. It's like I've decided that you're so important that I'm not going to have a relationship of this depth with anyone else it's like. Oh well you know that's kind of kind of like a compliment that you know it is an affirmation of fundamental value and you can use an affirmation of fundamental value when you're surrounded by all the doubts that you accumulate about it yourself. You know it's interesting. My my wife and I had a conversation just a little while ago and I told her I couldn't believe how much trouble she's put up with in the last two years I thought because she's just been a complete bloody rock about it. You know and has been there really every step step of the way and and so and it was some of it was absolutely bloody brutal because it was a combination of extreme social pressure and extreme extreme instability future and really bad health like all at once and for a long time to and I said Jesus. I'm I'm really impressed that you managed to put up with this. I can't I can't believe you could do it. She said well I'm equally. Happy that now that you have all the opportunities that you have that you've chosen to stay with me and it was really. It was really good conversation because I was really grateful that she had stuck it out and she was really happy. Be that are bonded last in the other direction and so we kind of concluded the two sons of bitches like us. We're pretty damn lucky that we had each other. That's a good. That's a good thing to reflect on when you're when you start thinking about how alone and isolated you could be so tammy's here somewhere by the way. Give her a round of applause for sticking up with this guy. The are you managing any fun on the tour. No no not not much but but but I would say having said that I mean I'd like to put that in context. I mean first of ball when when Tammy and I decided to do this to her. Although we didn't realize it was going to be quite so extensive. We talked this through like this was not fun. That wasn't the point. We knew that it was going to be very very structured and strict because we're in a different city often every day a different country and and there's no messing about. There's no drinking. There's no there's no. There's no mistakes this because we can't afford mistakes like I have to be at the theater and time. I have to think about what I'm going to say. I have a moral obligation to my my audience. So it's an it's an amazing and remarkable privilege and opportunity to be able to do this and so so funding funding was not on the table. Now we also agreed that if we could take an hour to go for a walk and go see something cool and see a bit of the city and and take a break when the opportunity arose that we were definitely going to do that. And we have. And that's great and there's no complaints in this but we have. Aw There's time for fun. This isn't the time for fun but this is better than fun. So you know this is such a ridiculous unlikely remarkable opportunity that you have to be an absolute damn full to squander it in any possible way and so we both decided right at the beginning that we were like hundred percent closest one hundred percent is we could manage dedicated just to doing doing this right. And we've got a good crew Davis being unbelievably reliable and helpful and and I have a great stage manager. John who did the Voice of God and he's unflappable and when problems arise he saw rise he solves them with no. Resentment is very helpful person. And you know we've had people along on the crew from time to time who weren't right centered on what we were doing and we just pulled away from them right away because there's no time mm for mistakes and there's no time for casual fun but it's been unbelievably remarkable adventure and so that's That's worth the sacrifice of a lot of fun. So funny we have as I drag you on stage to a comedy club in Salt Lake City. That's true. Yeah yeah well no I meant it to this guy. Basically telling jokes it was that was good and and we get to play a little bit. You know you do a nice intro. That's kind of comical and we get to play a bit now and then with acuity as comical. Thanks dead all right. I'll take it what we write your next book about. Well I've already written about. I've actually ridden three quarters of about about three or four books. Now that are sitting sort of in their unfinished four and so I think I'm going to do a book of QNA's because I have collected a lot of them and a lot of the questions are really good and some of the answers are okay to and so I think people would be interested in that because when I do a Q.. And A. on Youtube that's the most those get the fastest views and often the most views of anything I do so so people really like that. Interestingly enough so I think I'll do book on Q.. Q. A book. I have a follow up book to maps of meaning. So that's a more serious scholarly work more difficult work. I recorded all of these lectures and gone far. Afield in many of them and I think there's probably had them transcribed. I think there's another book in that. And then the next book is likely it's tentative. Working title is beyond mere order. Twelve more rules for life and I said I had written forty two rules to begin with you know when each each of them seem to be worthy of further consideration so package twelve together. That made a coherent story for the I book. But I think that I'm going to do. I'm going to take the same tack for the next book. There's an established market. There's a clear demand I've got more to say about it and I would like to try again and see if I can do something similar but better you know because I don't want to just do a rehash obviously so I'm GonNa try to write another book twelve rules book that's a counterpart to this. That is well. Hopefully at least the same quality with any luck higher and that should slated to submit that next September but I have a years worth of grace around that. So that's the that's the long term term writing plan at the moment so and then not quite there's another one well did set of Biblical lectures last year. Fifteen of them and they turned out to be very popular and then in the fall next year. I'm going to do a sequence of lectures on exodus so that'll give me thirty twenty thousand word lectures on on the first two the first two sections of the biblical Corpus. That's about six hundred thousand words so that's about that's that's about four books and I could probably winnow that down to one really tight book and I think that might be also useful and challenging and all of that so those are role in the realm of future possibility so this is interesting relative to something that happened to you personally just in the last day or so how would you quantify and qualify by a good life and a good Dan good death well thought about a lot you know I think you wrote about a little bit in twelve rules about socrates in his choice to die in Athens you know. The Athenian elite didn't really like him much. Because he was a troublemaker. Someone I can identify with to some degree and the they brought up charges against him said he was corrupting the youth and the punishment for that. You're a religious element to the judge and some of that. Carry the death penalty. So they're going to kill him but they said we're GONNA take trial in six months so it really meant get Outta town because we're tired of you and everyone knew that including socrates. He decided he went meditated on that all his friends were preparing his escape route to a different city and they of course wanted him to live because they thought he was extremely valuable but he went and meditated in some sense he consulted this faculty he called his Damon. An and you might think about that as your conscience. The same thing in some sense and socrates said that the thing that made him difference different from other people was that he always listened to his Damon. Didn't tell them what to do. It told them what not to do. It would warn him if he was about to take a false step and you know that was something. I experienced very intently. When I was in my early twenties I started to learn that that faculty existed this was independent of knowing anything about socrates? I learned that I could pay attention and I had a faculty that would not I know when I was saying something false or when I was about to do something false and then if I paid attention and it was saying that I was doing that all the time which was very disconcerting. If I paid attention to to it that I could stop doing those things and socrates said that what made him different from other men was that he always listened to this Damon and and so he went out thought thought about getting out of Dodge city and he went to consult his Damon and said. Don't run away what do you mean. Don't run away. What could is stupid advice? Is that these people WanNa kill me they will. They're serious. This and I could just go away. Then I wouldn't be dead. That's a good outcome. But as I said he'd already decided that he wasn't going into violate this voice so they put him on trial and you can see why they killed them. It's really interesting to read this. It's the Appalachia of socrates. There's two versions one by play written by xenophon and they're both worth reading because there are a little different. They're like court transcripts will that is what they are in some sense and they're a little different so that's kind of cool because gives you that sense of really being their the first thing socrates does. He's decided to start afraid of death or if he is he's not afraid enough to run away just kind of like not being afraid. It's not so bad. He's just a rips. These people into shreds. It's just horrible. I mean instead of them being the judges and jury and him being being accused he flips the table and he tells each one of them because he knows them very. Well just exactly kick uses one of having this wastrel of a son who was definitely going to destroy Roy entire family enterprise because his father had mistreated him so badly because he was such a terrible human being and he just lays it out painful detail and you think God. It's no wonder they wanted to get rid of you and you could see what was happening and you'd say it but anyways socrates comes up with an explanation nation for why he. He decided that his Damon must be right because it was always right. How could it be right about me? Dying thought well you know. I've had a pretty good life. It's been full people have revered me and and and and I've had very many valuable relationships. They should ships and it's been a full life and soon I'm going to be old because he was getting old and maybe I'll lose my faculties and things will start to fall apart heart. What happens when you get really old? And maybe I've been offered a gift from the Gods that I could be wise enough to take I can buyout buyout faculties intact. I can put my house in order before I depart. I can say goodbye to all my friends. I can have my final words and I can depart art satisfaction of having lived a complete life. And so that's what he did and I thought about that a lot because I'm not that interested in getting old old. I'd rather maintain my youth and to some degree. I do what I can to ensure that and you know you can have now now especially people might imagine living for two hundred years or five hundred years maybe forever. Although I think is beyond anyone's any real possibility but can imagine extending your life a very long time then I wonder you know I had kids and I don't think I'd have them again. I don't mean that I didn't love them. I didn't enjoy it I really did. But it's like I did that you there's a bunch of things have already done and they were really worthwhile but isn't clear to me that I'd want to reestablish a whole new career no I have sub adventures that take me here and they're like this for example but I don't know if I'd go back to university and do another PhD. There's something about having done something that sort of finishes Che's it you know and I kinda wonder. Is it possible that if you live your life completely you could let it go. Aw and it seems to me that there's something to that. I think it might be. I think that might be the way that things are. Is that if you if you took the advantages that were offered to you if you exploited the opportunities that you have at hand if you made use of the potential that was in front of you you you would exhaust yourself in your life and then you'd be done and and that would be okay and the older I get the more. I think that might be true. So so that would be a good death. I suppose a good death would be. What would be attendant on a thoroughly lived life and I mean I can't? I can't tell that for sure I've watched people died now older people and you know they are often more often than so you might think of the opinion that they have their life. So maybe that's how it is if you're if you're careful so that would be a good death breath and I suppose a good life would be preparing for that right right well. I don't think there's any possible way we could top OP. That question so on that note. I'm going to scoot you out of the way and make some noise productive Jordan Peterson. Everybody thank you very much in Cleveland. Thank you very much. Everyone genuine pleasure to speak with all of you. The found this conversation meaningful. You Might Think about picking up dad's books maps of meaning the architecture believe or is newer bestseller twelve rules for life an antidote to chaos. Both of these works much deeper into the topics. Covered in the Jordan Peterson. Persson podcast. See Jordan be Peterson. Dot Com for audio e book and text links or pick up the books at your favorite bookseller. Really hope you enjoyed this podcast. If you did please leave a rating get apple podcasts. A comment or view or share this upset with a friend. Thanks for tuning in talk to you next week. Follow me on my youtube channel. Jordan Peterson on twitter. You're at Jordan. Be Peterson on facebook. At Dr Jordan Peterson and Instagram at Jordan. Darby Peterson details on this show full access to my blog information about tour dates and other events and my list of recommended books can be found on my website Jordan. Be Peterson DOT COM my online writing programs designed to help people straighten out their pasts understand themselves in the present and develop a sophisticated vision and strategy. The future can be found at self authoring dot com that self authoring dot com from the Westwood. One podcast network

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Is Government Doing Too Much or Too Little With Coronavirus?

Reason Podcast

57:55 min | 7 months ago

Is Government Doing Too Much or Too Little With Coronavirus?

"The nature of outbreaks. Aw that percolate a little bit along and then you reach exponential fate if you look at every curve it does this and then it goes way up well. We and Italy is an example of individual country that did not implement them massive type of containment and mitigation and it went way up. So they're here now. They're really struggling our goal right now. Is that if you do nothing? It's going to do this with them to get more cases no matter what but we need to do with. Containment and mitigation is the blunt that current that was Anthony Pouch the now famous director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases. On Sunday's meet the press. Hello everyone welcome to the roundtable. I am Matt. Welsh joined remote league Version two point zero of this podcast Tempt by Nicholas Peterson. And Catherine main. You Hi Guys Howdy. Hey Matt Happy Apocalypse we. We are going to resist the temptation to kick Peter suitor in the privates in a moment's and and also go straight to whether There are any the question of whether there any libertarians and a pandemic but before all of that these show it is going on. Freedom Fest at Twenty Twenty. The annual Summit for Liberty Movement is here to remind listeners that all systems are still go for their July thirteenth to sixteenth conference at the Paris resort in Las Vegas Nevada while Democrats in other statists gather in Milwaukee to flip their gums. The counter-conferences of freedom already to assemble keynote speaker. Dr Jordan Peterson for example. Says he's raring to go to give his talk on the new Cultural Revolution. Early bird rates are still available. They run out. March thirty first visit. Www dot freedom dot com for details all right CORONA virus. It's happening all around us. Usually at this moment I would update everybody on the news. It'll all be hopelessly out of date by the time. This thing is released in a few hours. The last thing that I saw that was kind of just personally. Poignant was the governor of the State. Were Nick in. I live Just said he expects the health system to be overwhelmed. We didn't flatten the curve in time. Good luck at least at least it's not like eight million of US sitting on top of each other so anyways the Dow Jones opened up two thousand points down the death toll is top eighteen hundred Italy. It's in every state in the United States except for West Virginia. Arnold Schwarzenegger is putting donkeys. Mike kids are really doing a good job of home schooling in the first two hours. There's been no blood. Shed so far. We'll be blood that there will be blood and bullying if you think. The bullying is bad at school. Matt Wind Tell US homes Catherine. Your kids are home schooling right next to you. Which I'm sure is going to be fun but now that you're home and have more secure Internet connection than the last time we talked there. Is this weird tendency that happens. And I've seen it with this time to add moments of high crisis to turn around and blame the Libertarians. Or at least just say that. Libertarianism has proven itself to be useful in this moment We see it now. We saw in the financial crisis of two thousand eight. We saw after nine eleven. What say you? Ah Priestess of libertarianism. Does this why this philosophy is wrong? Yeah I mean. Just as there are in fact atheists in foxholes there are libertarians. In pandemics. It is not to say that this is not a trying time for everyone political philosophy. I think we saw some of that on display last night in the De Debate which. I'm sure we'll get to soon. But yes so we have this a it's libertarians fault. Because we're so powerful as everyone who listen to this podcast knows. This is stuff like Oh. The office of pandemic management was destroyed. The CDC has been defended by and large those criticisms tend. I would say to be a little off base or flat out untrue but then there's the other piece of this which is the. Can you still be a libertarian independent? Make and I actually have been interested to see some folks who identifies Libertarians on twitter elsewhere. Saying you know I'm not an anarchist. I am A monarch kissed and this is a moment for intervention. I would like to make a distinction though between intervening to save lives verses intervening to do ask both Joe Biden and Bernie Sanders promise which was to make everyone affected by the virus whole and so that means huge bailouts at the corporate level bailouts at the personal level. That is where I think. There is still a good use for Libertarians. And a pandemic which is to keep calm and level on how much intervention we do in the economy. Peter There's a lot of interesting kind of comparisons being made you see this in the democratic debate You know this. This should cause us to think about Medicare for all and then Joe Biden says well. They basically had single payer in Italy. How how did that work out for you? There are questions of how much we spend per capita in the US on healthcare versus other countries. And does that make us more or less resilience in the face of this? We definitely have been having a shortage of testing which is affected things here. What has this crisis. So far caused you to reflect and of course the probably the biggest interesting kind of experiments is what's happening in in Britain National Health Service and And they're kind of a worse. Johnson's approach to this which is very different than everywhere else. What is this caused you to reflect about their health policy differences in this country compared to others I think the biggest obvious takeaway here is that national health systems of the kind that Bernie Sanders once but also even to some extent that Joe Biden wants. Don't prevent this sort of outbreak from happening necessarily and so you look at Italy You look at what is probably GonNa happen with the NHS. You look at a Spain which has also basically shut its borders. You Look at France which has closed down for business you know. All of the kind of draconian measures that New York is taking in terms of shutting down schools. Restaurants gyms bars that sort of thing Places of gathering Francis has done that nationwide and all those places have big government. Funded healthcare systems not always not necessarily a full on single payer but universal health coverage systems. And it's not stopping the outbreak there. And so you can say that. The United States isn't handling things. Well that there are that there are problems here that we have Gaps and cracks in our coverage system. But you look at other places and they have serious problems with this too and so trying to present Medicare for all or whatever your favorite government. Universal government system is as a solution to this particular. Problem is just not very convincing. Because countries many countries with those systems are having pretty serious problems with covered. Nineteen right now as well and in in general just kind of exposes I think some of the kind of the uselessness of our political debates about healthcare. Which is that no matter what happens. You can't imagine a circumstance in which Bernie Sanders doesn't say. Well the solution is let's have Medicare for all let's have the government nationalized the entire healthcare financing industry. And so when? That's the case when you when you kind of can't win. He's going to respond to every non crisis or every crisis or or whatever it is With the exact same response it is a little bit telling in terms of how he's thinking about it and in terms of whether it's actually a solution to the particular problem that we face right now nick there's been a few people to have noticed out there in moments of this acute impending crisis that. Oh look. There's this roadblock there's this delay there's this bureaucracy that's in between What we should be doing and what we are doing and so. Let's get rid of that talk a little bit about some of the at least. You know. Individual in Libertarian lessons that are being learned even if they're not being understood as such. Yeah if you look at At a piece of reason dot com. I've got up called You know tired there are no libertarians. And a pandemic wired there are only libertarians and a pandemic point two three recent shifts in policy the TSA is now allowing family size jugs of hand sanitizer on planes twelve ounces rather than three point four full handle rain the CD maintenance. The Fill Your Jack Daniels bottle when you're measuring sanitizer by handles like things ain't right you can and in fact you can just use you can use a handle of ever clear which is You know what one hundred ninety. Ab proof so like ninety five ABC or something. And if it's if it's sixty percent alcohol by volume it kills it is so the TSA is relaxing. Certain rules The CDC and FDA have given up the ghost on certain types of authorizations and kind of super fast tracking chores that we are testing processes that we know work The Governor of Massachusetts has blissfully allowed a medical professionals who are licensed to practice and other states to only today to do the paperwork to start working in Massachusetts. Thirty four states basically allow reciprocity of medical professionals particularly nurses to work across lines. Massachusetts has now joined has joined that at least temporarily what we're seeing here or people at the highest levels of power saying these rules and regulations which we swore up and down to you are in place because otherwise chaos ensues. It's like fuck it you know. It's it's an emergency so we're GONNA get rid of these petty anti things. I think that's a good sign in. It's a lesson worth remembering now kind of blowing out more like what are the other stupid rules that are getting in the way of the free flow of information goods and services but especially when this comes down we need to go back and say okay so what. We're all of those things that people said in in the moment weren't really that important because if they're not important during a crisis or certainly not working that not that important During everyday life when we have more ability to kind of pick and choose among things. So that's what I'm talking about in that piece. I think we need to go back. I think we have actually without minimizing the threat posed by corona virus to particular parts of the population and whatnot. We need to go back and say like why is Andrew Cuomo? Why is build a blase? The mayor of New York dictating what businesses can open and close without. You know real kind of more consideration of what's going on here. I think we've jumped the gun into a panic mode. That has now are not trickling down. But I mean it's cascading down from the highest levels of federal state and local authority so I actually want to challenge that a little bit because I think that another way to describe what's going on. Is that actually a lot of this trickled up like this? This is the thing that I've been thinking about. What the whole Libertarians. Pandemic question is. You know everybody you say like Oh you know. I'm an editor at a Libertarian magazine. People say like Herbal Libertarians. Duly rules. How do you guys do stuff right? And that's you know that's a pretty standard response so young. So what's what's it like? In this case. One thing that's happened is a great example of like when you say we need to something about this real problem and the we is by people naturally think of it as being government but in fact lots of private actors including individuals who chose to stay home including businesses including sports leagues they all acted with greater dispatch than the government and then the government filer but the city. And I think that that's offense saying use you support to you. Support the government or the New York City government or the government saying okay bars and restaurants your shutdown or or you'll have takeaway food for a little bit and then that'll close or should it be you know that the government. I think we were even talking about this last week. That the government can give all kinds of guidelines and information which it's been really bad at all levels we've gotten a lot of bad information from official sources but they should say you. Should you know here are the facts of things and then let individuals decide? I think businesses I think schools I think other organizations at this point should be allowed to make those decisions about whether they say open and under what circumstances. I think we've jumped into something approaching martial law without without really making the case for I. I would disagree with that. I would disagree with that portrait a little bit. I would say it is my preference for Elvis to be done via private action but I think as we discussed last week I would much rather see. It'd be private actors first. Localities next states next federal next. And I think to say we've jumped into. Marshall is not an accurate description of where we are right now. I said something like that. Where where does it end? I would also just note. There's one small thing that we needed or you'd notable thing that we need to consider here. Which is that for businesses shutting down of their own accord Often they can't collect insurance payments unless they are shut down by the government and so they're in a little bit of a pickle which is that they might want to shut down but but not be able to collect the insurance money that they would count John to keep open. What about the ones? I WANNA stay open. I mean I can we at least have some discussion of that. Because we're acting as if this is the plague and it is not so not the flu but it is not the plague and we have gone in a week's time to freaking out and shutting things down. Yeah no it's only going to be shut down more and more so I think it's worth actually considering what kind of threat this is and the way I'm looking at. This is that they are projections out of this centers for Disease Control and prevention out of the CDC that suggests that two hundred million Americans could end up infected and that as a result one point five to one point seven million Americans could die. And that's like the way I think about. This is like an asteroid heading for Dallas Texas. Which is a city of about one point. Four million people or adding more the pros and asteroid that we would. We would commandeer buses and every time we would get people out of expensive action And it would be unusual and we would and we would have to require a lot of people to do a lot of things that they might not normally do And so you know again. I'm not I WANNA say I'm not super comfortable with a massive shutdowns all over the country. I'm not it that are dictated by by state governors and by city officials. It's it makes me. It's not something that I sort of look and say. Hey that's great at the same time. This does seem to me to be. I think you can make in a case that it make a case that it is an extraordinary event and requires an extraordinary and unusual response. And what I worry about. This actually goes back to what you were talking about earlier. With the twelve ounce Things have hand sanitizer. You can now that you can take on an airplane as You provided that anybody's actually flying here think about that. Why did why did we have that rule in place to begin with it was a sort of leftover response from nine eleven? And to my real worry. Here is not so much what we're doing this week or next week or even next month. My real worry is that we're GONNA do dumb stuff that stays in place for years and for decades afterwards and that this will that the responses that we're undertaking right now end up not being temporary but ended up conferring huge new powers under the state that get used in non emergency times and that after this everything becomes an emergency. I think that there's like I said a real case that this this moment right now is an actual emergency that requires some suspension of of some normal rules And normal expectations on the other hand. The there is a there is also a real risk that we should be worried about warning warding off that this becomes that this becomes a sort of semi permanent state in which stuff is closed. All the time in which we're sort of in which we are we we never get out of this because you know because of for the same reason that it took until now to be allowed to bring twelve ounces of hand sanitizer on an airplane. If we weren't social distancing Peter you could see me in the booth doing a little like breach hand gesture right now. So we know from past experience that these these measures will not be fully temporary including the the massive bailouts that are coming from both Republicans and Democrats. The economy is going to be made. Whole businesses are going to be made whole medical laws. Bob Lied like we know. This is just kicking spending up into the stratosphere. I think we should fight a little bit more right now to question whether or not this is the moment where we say you know what. This is a real. This is a real emergency. Unlike nine eleven unlike You know h one n one. Unlike communism in the fifties I mean into the eighties or nineties California. Professors were still having to sign loyalty outs. If they taught at the University of California Cal State Seltzer. It's not going to be temporary. And I think we we are freaking out over something which we can disperse through less kind of top down. Coercive means somewhere doing right now. South Korea provides an alternative model which is an open society and is much more authoritarian than America where they do mass testing. And that's the that's the main way that they educate the population about what to do and also who's infected because this part of the thing is that were assuming all of the projections which are done with very little information are going to take place and suddenly were up to one point. Seven million people dying That seems highly. Let's look look what's happening in Italy right now and look at you know just on Saturday or Sunday. Italy had three hundred and sixty South Korean equivalence. About Twenty percent of few about twenty percent of the the mortality. They typically have across the country In a normal day to begin with so so this this So covert nineteen is causing. You know sort of a twenty percent increase at twenty twenty five percent increase in deaths in the country right now and it'll it's an old country with massive numbers of smokers etc. It is not an. It's also not evenly distributed Italy. It's in one particular region but they're banning every their corn tuning the entire country and things like this because viruses. Nick and that I mean it's going viral. Reason is because stuff spreads and shut down the vectors of spread. I'm sorry like it seems to me that if this is the bar for a shutdown of business as normal and a of rights as normal in America like we have we have established a very very low bar for what counts as as freedom. I don't think that we've reached that barrier and I think by skipping over that we are setting absolutely not only laws and policies. That will be in place for long after this but we are setting the bar for the next time a little bit lower in a little bit lower. Because this doesn't this doesn't tend to cause a reaction where we're like well. We're not doing that again. It's like now we're going to do it again and try. It's going to be triggered at a lower and lower level threshold of of significant. Let's help us through that nick. What is an example of an action that you see being taken or contemplated today which could represent something that stays in place The the quickness with which Localities are saying okay businesses. Your shutdown you cannot. You cannot operate under normal things. The theaters closed. The bars are closed. The restaurants are closed or or their constricted in significant. What how I say that how that's going to look like in three years from now. What what is what is the the every time. Every time there is some kind of a viral flu and it could be behavioral. It could be something else we're gonNA see calls to shut down things like the way that we did. You know so I also think that the government if you think that this is not going to change the way in which we talk about letting people into the country or out of the country seems to me that's going to be a major concern going forward in ways that will ultimately be applied not in the name of public health but into in the in the guise of keeping certain types of people in the country are out of the. That's already so. I think that there is again a really important distinction. Between saying there are some steps that could be taken right now Which could reduce the spread of the disease etc? We can talk about whether they are the correct steps. I think the South Korean example is interesting and instructive but to me the place where Libertarians and where I plan to kind of hold line and put my emphasis is on things that the do have those kind of long term effects right. I think there's a very different very different thing to say. Okay from now on. We're being extremely restriction EST in Immigration. From now on we are bailing out every small business that has to close. Its doors for any reason for more than a month. Whatever it is like. That's the place where we can have a productive conversation. I wish that we were in a scenario where we had a competent and also Deregulated You know partnership between governments and PRIVATE ENTITIES TO DO TESTING. We had the opposite of that and You know I think that that is one takeaway here as as I think. Someone mentioned earlier on the podcast like. Hey if the if there hadn't been an explicit prohibition place on some of the testing technologies development that we really really needed all. This could have spun up a lot sooner from the private sector. That is the kind of thing where I think we are. Also Bernie Sanders. We should be we should be. We should kind of cop to that like. We are also essentially just saying in this crisis. What we have learned is that Libertarians are right about x Y and Z things. But the place where I think we can actually reduce the chance of the thing you fear neck of the this becoming kind of the new baseline for response to a crisis is to is not to kind of do the do the kind of reactionary thing of being like screw you guys. I'm going to the bar and instead to do the thing of saying let's be thoughtful about bailouts. Financial Changes Changes Regulatory Changes Comfort going forward. Speak as good luck because next time we've already bailed out into I mean. Do you think we wouldn't you know? We bailed out the banks after the financial crisis. Do you think that that's not influencing the idea that okay there are whole industries? That should be held up because they're particularly affected by all of this. Well yeah in fact. That's that I think that's happening. The president trump who he thankfully haven't even out of the name of So far until I just broke the seal you know one of the things he was saying a week or so ago was that you know we. We need to help with our great cruise industries as if we have any hidden states we don't because of the Logan Act but also logan. What's the Jones Act? Sorry they're all bad tax But we should bailout so the the the airline industry may be in the hospital industry and he's already mentioned that and then certainly last night. The quote from Joe Biden was that we will need a major major major. Bailouts of major cubed bailout so exponential thinking is is with us on that topic specifically Peter and we about this in the version. One point zero of this podcast. Which got chunked is so. There's an idea. Let's let's do big bailouts or let's cut the the Federal Reserve rate by another fifty. We're down to between zero zero point two five percent on Fed rates and we've been spending money like nuts over the last ten ten years talk a little bit about how the behavior leading up to this point. The macroeconomic policies leading up to this point have perhaps limited what can be done on a macro level by the politicians who want to do a major major major bailout. It's much harder to respond to a crisis where you might say. Want to spend some money very quickly when you have already spent all of your money and then a lot more. Which is what the United States has done. We're running trillion dollar deficits Now we are set to run trillion dollar deficits for the next decade. That was assuming that things were going to go well or well enough with the economy. We have twenty-something something trillion dollars in debt and what the Congressional Budget Office in its regular reports on. This always says. Is You know in some sort of very calm. And kind of you know Low key bureaucratic language. That's a really bad idea when you get to an actual crisis because any crisis which you want to have is flexibility you want to have the the the ability to to make big bold decisions To enact unusual policies and so you know if let's say that let's just forget for a second that like let's or let's table for a second. Some of the libertarian objections to Big spending fiscal responses right now. And just say that like you thought. This was a huge emergency that did demand a really big response. It's going to be a lot harder because of the debt and deficit situation because our budget has been so host for so for so long. And so if you wanted to do that this will make it much more difficult. And if you if you kind of think of If you think of a big deficit Sort of a deficit expanding things as As policies that should only be enacted in genuine crises. Of What we've done is the opposite we have. We have run up the deficit in boom times when there isn't a crisis and now we're in I think What like like I said. I think this is an actual crisis. I think this is a a quite unusual situation and it is going to constrain our ability to respond in with Fiscal Policy. In particular And you know If you you might ask In the the original version of this podcast that we scrapped. Nick esque will how exactly does it constrain us and the answer is that it's just much harder to turn a ship When it is when it is weighed down It is we are already doing so much trying to add something else to what we do that trying to to spin up new program to try and Trying to do any sort of thing that is since that is different than than what we're already doing is just going to be a lot harder and I think that while we may end up passing some sort of a big bailout bill probably badly targeted. Probably Probably the kind of thing that won't up making a positive difference in a lot of ways like the two thousand nine stimulus that we passed under Obama like the stimulus that we passed under. Bush is the thing that people forget a lot. Is that up under president. Bush not tarp Before tarp actually happened we passed a hundred and fifty billion dollar stimulus program that wrote six hundred dollar checks to most Americans. Those stimulus plans didn't work very well and and I think that even if that were the even we get something where it's probably going to be along those lines and But it's going to be a lot harder to do anything that is. That is smart anything that is targeted. Anything that is big in anything that kind of response to an actual emergency. Now that we are in that situation I I agree with you. Peter that It won't have the effect that it's intended to. It won't stop people from it. I mean there is no upper bound on the amount of money that the government will print or create and pump into the economy at one. Have the effect. It's the last bit of insulin after huge binge or something like that. But that's what worries me both on the economic side but then also on the social and the public health and the larger kind of libertarian side. Of what what are the bounds? What are the constraints of government and with every iteration? Where we say okay. This time. It's different this time it's real. You know it's nine eleven and we have to lock down certain things that's the financial crisis and we have to a massive action. It's I would say we keep we keep coming back to this without giving even any time. I mean Catherine you know you're right that the the smart results Ron Bailey. At reason has written about this way. This pandemic is ultimately going to be contained is by individual actors acting smartly and wisely in a voluntary way. This is a massive country. Things are already loose on the landscape. What we need is better information and better direction for how people can act responsibly. That's not gonNA come from Your Bill de Blasio in New York. It's not gonNA come from Andrew Cuomo. Who is bitching and moaning about the you know the lack of resources. He didn't do anything to fight this. When you look at the way the governor of Washington contravene what people were finding in local Seattle hospitals nursing homes at the FDA and the CDC like. It's you know this is a it's a pandemic where it's up to individuals ultimately defined the way forward and I think the the more that we see to the government the worse. I also WanNa talk a little bit about epidemic and pandemic inflation. Because I think this is something that you know nick. You're right to fear that going forward. But it's also something that were already living with so y'all may remember a few months back when it seemed that the entire public health bureaucracy apparatus the the FDA CDC were all bent on the crucial task of fighting the epidemic of vaping of teen vaping that this that people explicitly used the word epidemic. That there were as you may recall a couple of deaths a few deaths and that we like absolutely went. You know full bore the hand. We should also recall. Were not from the thing. They were trying to ban the deaths. The end from the thing they banned and that you know before that we had the obesity epidemic which You know people were less effective at getting full scale. National Bands One. The number one problem facing America right and our defense apparatus after nine eleven. We were constantly told. We're good. This is something that reason has certainly written a lot about something that I feel strongly about. Which is that like we. We have abused and overused. Those words also have abused and overused the public health bureaucracy to the point where it's understandable that people you know looking for guidance about how to behave when the CDC says okay do X Y and Z and that same CDC or the FDA or other players in the space were issuing totally panicked notifications about something that turned out to be you know a few tainted vaping cartridges on the black market It's it's very very hard for for state actors to have credibility in that circumstance that goes back to the kind of the policy response thing that I was talking about. Which is that if you have already shot all of your bullets If you've already spent all of your money view have already used all of your credibility dials are already turned up to eleven on on the vaping crisis. A by you know trying to ban the thing that isn't killing people and will probably move vapors towards the thing that might be killing people Then it does. It makes it much harder for policymakers to respond. I Know Matt wants us to move on but I will say this is. There are some parallels there with The differing responses across different nations to chronic virus. I mean you know. The fact is like maybe closing schools is the equivalent of banning raspberry vape cartridges. We don't exactly know I don't think it is but it's it would be fair to raise that question. It is fair to raise that question and if it turns out that we've done a massive authoritarian intervention that didn't help that makes the next crisis even harder to deal with to So yes we are going to switch gears here and moved to the Democratic Response In a moment but first the stock market's crashing oil prices plummeting. Socialism state is rising as is panic over the corona virus. The world seems so chaotic. That freedom fast. Your Annual Summit for Liberty Movement is holding a special emergency meeting on Monday July Thirteenth. Right at the kick off of their annual convention at Paris. Las Vegas Freedom Fast. Says the organizers will go on no matter what and right now rates are the lowest. You'll see just three hundred nine dollars for four full days. Bring a friend or guest just to ninety nine registered. Www freedom fest dot com before these rates end on March thirty first and now is one hell of a time to get good terms on booking flights. What will you see once? They're Dave Smith a libertarian. Comedian and popular. Podcast was just confirmed. As this year's masters of ceremonies Jon stashower will be there as will at least two of the people on this podcast. I won't say which ones also Robbie Swab a corey. Deangelis and others will participate special reason day on July fourteenth go free to pest dot com for all relevant details okay There is a presidential debate. Last night's with social distancing and elbow bumps and to really really old dudes confusing the Current crisis to Ebola and SARS and n one h one and h one end one. It was very confusing. I don't know how many of you saw that too. I presume all of you. Because you're responsible adults and journalists working for the recent superstate I'll just throw it out. I To See among those of you who watched it to come back with anything that jumped out at unique you-go-first nothing jumped out at me Things slowly got out of their chair lift and came at me at an incredible pace. I've founded a I watched it faithfully but it was not a particularly elucidating conversation. I think you know Joe Biden. At this. Point has locked in the The Democratic nomination. We know what his policies are in. Peter's pointed this out that much is year Biden his campaigning and being taken seriously as a moderate as a centrist in this campaign when you compare them even just to what Hillary Clinton was proposing for years ago. This guy is a massive expansion of government. I think the most interesting thing in the two thousand twenty election at this point is what happens to the sanders people because they really don't have a home in the Democratic Party And I I look forward to A shift in the way that we talk about politics and political alliances because they are played out in the in the current parlance in the same way that Libertarians. Really have very little to You know if anything at home in the current Republican Party so I'm up for the The a four way split into something. That's a that's more compelling from a political and ideological of mix and match point of view. Peter What did you see in terms of a specific either corona virus response or the health policy aspect of the debate. That thing that jumped out to me was when the one line you're at least that that It remains lodged in what passes for my memory. These days was when Joe Biden. Said wow you know Italy As single payer healthcare and how they do What what was your assessment of the way that they approached their ideas about health policy in the context of colonel buyers. I'm just glad that either statler or Waldorf is going to be the Democratic nominee really. It's exciting either way. I think in terms of health policy. What struck me most was how little changed. In last night's debate relative to other debates. Now we didn't have you know sort of the giant field There to to complicate things to make it a little shout ear but Joe Biden and Bernie Sanders basically had nothing new to say except For you know. Let's make a testing free. And let's make people and in terms of but in terms of actual health policy. They didn't really have good answers on some of the big questions I don't think trump has a good answers either Which are how do you deal with surges in the need for capacity which is what we are looking at and what really the big problem is it looks like with with? Good Nineteen Matt. You mentioned at the very beginning of this taping. I think this version of the show. that The governor of New York has already suggested that We that down New York hospital systems may be overwhelmed. That's the real problem that people are worried about. That's what's going on an Italy Everywhere there has been really mass A huge huge issues with covered nineteen. It has been because the hospitals have been overwhelmed. Building new hospital capacity adding respirators. That sort of thing. That doesn't really seem to be on anyone's political agenda and that is a health policy question that no one is really trying to solve. That medicare for all at very best wouldn't do any good and might well actually make worse and so. This is the thing that we've talked about before. Is that Medicare for all under most assumptions. It's not technically in Bernie Sanders Bill. But most people who have looked at the plan. Say Well Look Medicare for all GonNa pay pretty close to Medicare rates across the board. What that means is that hospitals and other healthcare providers would take a huge pay cut since private insurers that exist today pay a lot more than Medicare and what happens when hospitals take a huge pay cut. They closed down. They stopped buying stuff. They stop investing in new facilities in new equipment in hospital beds. Respirators in people who know how to use that equipment in E. R. Facilities. And so you know if any Lego said if anything Bernie Sanders at very best Bernie Sanders will. Let's just do Medicare for all is totally non responsive to the problem at hand at worst it would substantially increase the risk of our hospital systems being overwhelmed and being unable to handle this sort of a pandemic like this in the future Catherine a bit of news. That would have been bigger if you know. The world wasn't a Zombie Apocalypse. was apparently Joe Biden. Said he's GonNa have into the lady question all right or do you think I did. You think I should have been ready I I could do it now. I'm ready so yeah. So Biden Biden. Promise Lady Veep and then sanders kind of said like it seems very likely that they'll be a lady veep which I thought was interesting. Look for the Progressive Lady. I'm open yeah. That was what he said. Two thousand good quote. Yeah so the. I thought it was a little bit weird like He. He really said it as like a subordinate clause in the middle of an answer and then the the moderator was like. I'm sorry did you just So that was a little bit peculiar But you know overall this raises my a deep deep sense of alarm that Comma Harris will rise to a position of great power on the flip side. The vice presidency is not worth a bucket of warm piss as we know. And so perhaps this is the safest place she could be in terms of not making. Americans lives worse. That's my silver lining of an eight hundred year old man during a pandemic. This is concerned but at least in the short run maybe better that than a gee I was. I was struck as I always am during these debates by how it's just there. Each debate is just a different kind of bad dinner party that I have been to and what it was like what it was like a million of them and they were all trying to get in and kind of show off. I was like yeah been at that. Dinner Party terrible. This was a different bad dinner party because it was like the two extremely confident relatively rhetorically adept old dudes who cannot for the life of them remember. Any of the specifics of their arguments. So there was so much of them saying like I'm pretty sure you're ranking with the the pro-life with you you voted for the. Maybe I was on that one bill. They could not recall the deeds. And you know what the details actually don't matter that that was not The main thing. That was the point of this debate. I think they do matter. They just typically have staff and reference materials right but also I mean when they need what they were selling was a world view and I do think there was a genuine contrast in there will do even though Joe Biden is not moderate by the standards of the last decade or so he absolutely is proposing something different than Bernie Sanders and Breezy Andrews really explicit. He was like no. The thing we need is a revolution Joe Biden was like no. The thing we need to do is to fix the thing. That's wrong right now and and I actually did appreciate that. They got to talk to each other at length about the differences in their in their world views. Still would have been a terrible dinner party. I think it's that jumped out to me from all of this was just a little bit. Like what Catherine was saying. Was that these guys have been Joe Biden in particular have has been in the Senate forever and their whole conversation was just kind of Senate beef between two guys who had who've had to work together for years and Joe Biden who just like thinks of every single thing in terms of the Senate club that he has been part of since you'd before I was born and it's it's really kind of interesting telling how defined by that experience and by the the weird sort of insulation that it causes in the kind of the way the the kind of thinking That it produces just spending your whole life as one of one hundred dudes who kinda get still. I tore the country making speeches and feeling really important and occasionally passing laws with the exception of gay marriage. I don't think Joe Biden has really bet on the right side of history and anything in his career and as Bernie. Sanders pointed out last night. Joe Biden enthusiastic voter for the defense of Marriage. Act BACK IN. Nineteen Ninety six or whenever that was Which was an odious piece of legislation? Go back and read. The reason archives contemporaneous -ly about how we approach that issue and compare and contrast to a lot of people who liked to congratulate themselves in two thousand twenty of how enlightened they are neck. I just want to say that Catherine talking about dinner. Parties and putting applying it into last night's debate is just a reminder that one of the worst movies ever made. Was My dinner with Andre here. It's like a stinking rotting fish on the plate in front of Matt. Oh my God I mean you. You can't stay awake to any movie as you know to That at all period but imagine trying to have to stay awake through that bad boy These days Thing that struck me. I wanted to mention before we Start to wind this thing down was there discussion of Fracking and oil drilling Joe Biden. Literally said he does every single A debate he says something. That's absolutely like crazy and sweeping like we're going to punish China that opens up another Co Factory. Like what how last night? He did say that he's instead said we're going to shut down all oil drilling in America and also no new fracking. Whatever that means but no no oil drilling on federal lands in America. Do you realize like what a difference that would make. Both of them are. Were Super Anti fracking. Of course a Bernie. Sanders wants to ban it immediately. It's as if people look around and see the around. Two million jobs that bracketing supports entire state economies. Have been buoyed by the stuff and in if that doesn't move you because after all men the military supports a lot of stuff to job STU is that as I believe Jake. Tapper pointed out the swapping out coal factories for natural gas. Hydraulic fracturing has been the single greatest contribute towards towards reducing greenhouse gases. Grazing a carbon And America's been a leader on that is just it. It's amazing to me That none of that seems to penetrator percolate into democratic your balls and and it's it happens in every debate and yet. I'm still surprised every time by looking at it all right. Let's let's the wind down since we can't spend all day with one another Remotely where are you? GonNa Hurt Matt. I'm going man. I'm going upstairs to see what the bloodshed is. Like with the homeschooling Here although again they've been doing a better than than I expected. But let's get to a set of our end of showed a cultural recommendations specifically with the idea of here is some contents to Right out the martial law that nickel espy is enforcing among all of us I am pro and Siam. Definitely the problem has libertarians. At Society Writ Large. We have too much influence. Were you inside my brain like reading the reading the script before we get to that final final advertisement here from freedom fest. Thirty seconds is not enough time to list all the Liberty Heroes. That will be at freedom fest this year. Dr Jordan Peterson. Sir Matt. Ridley Matt and Terry Kibi on what honorifics they need Steve Forbes Jennifer Grossman John Fund. Tom Woods Eliza all Carrie MacDonald Michael Medved Vernon Smith so many more check out the growing list and sign up for early bird rates at Freedom Fest Dot Com. This year's theme is catch the vision so catch that and more at the Paris Las Vegas July thirteenth to sixteenth. The fight for liberty must go on all right. Nick what are you a tiding over the play? Direct people to on online copies of Edgar Allan Poe's mask of the red death which is a great Tale of the one percent in a fictional medieval landscape that wall themselves in during the plague and You know it doesn't it doesn't end well for them. But more importantly I watched the Omega Man. The nineteen seventy-one Charlton Heston Apocalyptic movie Where which is set in Los Angeles after a chemical weapons bomb has turned most of the people on the planet. Earth in two mutant. Albino hippies who nonetheless are kind of Proxies for black people trying to break into Charlton Heston townhouse said in La Fantastic movie and I think people will take some comfort in how ridiculous the apocalypse there seems even at the time but especially years later. I think we'll take some comfort from From looking at that and recognizing this is not the end of the world and what will save the world here is not going to be Andrew. Cuomo does it's going to be what we do as individuals sort of watched outbreak the Nineteen Ninety Five Wolfgang Petersen film with Dustin Hoffman and Rene Russo and Morgan Freeman. It's on net flicks. It is A kind of nineties throwback thriller That you know that takes the scenario that we are in now and then gets virtually every bit of it wrong Because it what what it assumes is that there's this very deadly disease that kills. I mean it's it's it's it's a. It's a movie so you end up with. Oh it's it's one hundred percent mortality in like forty eight or seventy two hours and it breaks out in a small town in California in the here in the United States after being brought over from Africa And of course the whole place is quarantined. The military comes in and what it turns out is at the end spoilers. Twenty year old. Moving of we're all. We're all frontier Spoilers at the end what it turns out. Is that the military Ends up with a plan to To basically napalm the entire town because what they're trying to do is protect their bio weapon that they had developed smoke. Jill I dunno whoever it was. Yeah it's really it's all pretty silly. It's a great example of Of the kind of nineties thriller. That doesn't get made anymore. Michael CRICHTON wasn't involved in it. But it really feels very Michael Crichton raid in this sort of like science has gotten completely out of control. Type thing You know you've got all of these link. It's interesting to see Morgan Freeman back. When he was merely an old middle aged man rather than The Voice of God. It's a pretty well made movie and a lot of ways but it's also but it just like I said it it gets every little detail wrong in the from the deadliest from the deadliness of the disease Chew the reaction And this is I think the thing that may be stuck out most of me watching it was. The movie is about how people are about how both the military is overreact In some ways and then about how the people in the town where there's the outbreak are just like rioting and they're like crazy in there so angry and link and they're all they're all kind of going nuts and instead you go out on the streets today in in New York and DC and la. They're somewhat empty in fact they're quite empty. There's video of Dupont circle where reasons office is in. Which would normally be extremely crowded on a Monday morning and it's just completely empty and it's just right it's the opposite is like people are here are just sort of saying. Oh well this is probably not that big a deal. It will probably pass. We're not gonNA pay that much attention to it. We're not going to be all of that. All that worried And so it's sort of it. Misreads the way that That a panic like this or you know an emergency like this actually plays out in the real world a reasonably entertaining it's on net flicks Catherine. What What is your virus related to consumption? My recommendation is both about to end. Useful four Our current pandemic. It is the board game pandemic. I actually recommended this years ago on the podcast My close friends and family have been playing a version of the game. That's called the legacy edition. Many board games have this nowadays Strategy Games especially Which is as you play the game evolves so you open up little boxes or new cards or stickers to put on the board pandemic legacy is structured by months. So you are time is passing and you're trying to fight a series of epidemics it is a collaborative epidemiological game. And if ever there was a moment for such a thing now is it. If you'RE GONNA play this game stop listening for a second now because I do want to do a small spoiler. There are two seasons by the way. So it's like you can. Zoom epidemic sort of there are two seasons in the first season in pandemic legacy season. One you will start to play and you will think okay. I need to use a kind of martial law type response Then there will be a big reveal and you might regret that choice. I've been thinking a lot about how my Nice Group of well intentioned people that included like a nurse and a consultant and a person who helps teach children and me who you can describe probably less charitably. We were all trying to do our best. And we still imposed martial law all around the world and that was not the right call for reasons that would become apparent as you to play okay. Spoilers are over but honestly all I can think about is how that board game is going down and whether or not that's where we are in the real world. It's a great game you should play. It takes a long time. Good luck so. My recommendation is only tangentially related to the theme. I and even that if you stretch but so spending a lot of quality time with my family these days our latest family movie night at the request of the eleven year old was to watch the the greatest. Showman the bio-pic ish thing musical. Hugh Jackman about P. T. Barnum and it's actually not going to be my recommendation. Although did perfectly fine movie and basically I think Zendaya as the greatest and she's going to be a huge star but so there was some follow up questions by various family members about the details of PD Barnum's life and so micah just fire up the ELDA wikipedia here and look at an old. My God was there a really good movie that didn't get made about what a dude that guy was. This isn't the same theme by recommended a couple of weeks back to the the current war which is a Immediately vanished Pick from last year ISH About the fight between Thomas Edison and George Westinghouse really interesting so in the same kind of nineteenth century. You know. We're we're about ready to start doing industrial revolutions and just do all kinds of weird stuff. P.t Barnum is a little bit before that but like The movies is sort of just it puts him as a guy who wants to impress the swells Because he was treated like garbage as a as a kid and soda. That's the chip on the shoulder. And that plus you know he is mostly Nice to the cast-offs of society The kind of thing. And here's a bunch of great songs The Actual T. Barnum started a newspaper when he was young like nine hundred eighteen to twenty nine challenged the local clergy for being a bunch of sellouts. They went after him for liable. He spends two months in the pokey comes out. Even a bigger champion of liberalism is an early switcher from the Democratic Party to the Republican Party on the issue of slavery although his first Carney act. I think with some like five year old that he bought into slavery. It's all such a crazy. Massey founded more or less the city of Bridgeport Connecticut which he was the mayor of the legislator think as well. He opened the first aquarium. Because why not Amazing Life now all I wanna do is like read biographies of PT. Just suggests that People Google T. Barnum at reason. Dot Com John. Muller years ago wrote a An Essay about P. T. Barnum essentially created business ethics in America was a review of a new edition of his autobiography. That was release some years ago. I think by Southern Illinois state press but Barnum is widely seen as a scam artists. But he in fact in his autobiography talked about how you can either take people's money once by ripping them off or giving them what they actually want and then creating a win win situation and business but look P T barnum reason dot com. There's a great essay there That speaks to many of the the things that you're talking about. Matt I think just now when you said Google P.T. Barnum at that was a that had a little bit of a like go to the YouTube. Ask last night five though. Just want to be vigilant neck Yeah as as part of that he I think p.t. Barnum invented the word humbug. Which you might think is ironic. Consider strange considering that He's accused of that but he he saw these differentiations in a way that super interesting and has an influence on on marketing and and different types exist just like super interesting great recommended more. Okay I hope that seven days from now. We'll be happier. It's hard to imagine that given the trend lines of everything but at any rate we're going to keep cranking out content and this is the first time that we've had a four way four location. I believe Podcast here so bear with us as we deal with the technological challenges but otherwise we're pretty well set up and resilient to handle that and other things and we'll still be cranking out podcasts at dot com slash podcasts on the YouTube Including the Wednesday interview with Nicholas and such like So keep tuning in and we will do our level best to try to share information and analysis out there and we'll catch you back next Monday goodbye.

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A Conversation with Joe Rogan / Part Two

The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast

1:41:39 hr | 1 year ago

A Conversation with Joe Rogan / Part Two

"Welcome to season two episode twelve of the Jordan Peterson odd gassed, I'm Michaela Peterson. Dr Peterson's daughter, collaborator, and all meat diet conspiracy theorist today, we're presenting dad's conversation with Joe Rogan part to last week dad, Joe Rogan talked about Joe's Netflix specials, his parents divorce and his early life drug experimentation fame, and they ended up on the controversial subject of transgender children. This week's episode will delve into Joe's humble beginnings in Boston, how he discovered martial arts. How many times he's had his nose broken and how his martial arts career led him to becoming a stand up comedian. And now the world number one podcast, which is crazy. One of the things Joe and dad, discuss near the end of the episode is the platform thinks spot the data's backed it will be featuring many of today's leading thinkers, including data. Obviously, I've taken a peek at it, and it's actually pretty interesting. It has features I haven't seen on. Any other social media platform that allow you to share engage in debate in thoughtful, and intelligent manner, including annotation on video audio podcasts is opportunities to engage directly with contributors through comments QNA's, live streams in annotate. It's worth checking out. I think it might be big it focuses on actual intellectual discourse, without the restrictions put in place by other social media platforms. Go to think spot dot com to Preregister for access during the current beta phase, they're setting it up and making sure it runs smoothly with early users before ramping it up in August. I believe it should be pretty awesome, where in desperate need for platform that doesn't arbitrarily decide to throw people off because of random crowd mentality. We know crowds can be stupid. So check it out. Thank spot dot com to Preregister for access. When we come back part two of my dad's interview with Joe Rogan. So I'm picky about what I advertise in the realm of health. I'm not advertising cake companies or protein, shakes fifty. No. I only made because of my former health problems fixed, by only eating meat. You can check out Michaela Peterson dot com. If you're interested, or my Instagram, or you too, so I'm picky about health things. I'm about to tell you guys about him though. You can research their supplement yourself and decide whether or not you think it's a good idea. It's a legitimate research back supplement that increases AD. I was really interested in supplements, particularly new Trump Beck's in two thousand fourteen when I was trying to fix myself up before I limited all plant foods, become a superhuman. I'm just kidding. I'm not kidding. Actually, I do feel like a superhuman anyway. They are supplements that are probably worth looking into basis is one of them calorie restrictions, like fasting has been shown to increase NASD and show have products like basis lacy Mesa supplement called basis. It's actually been shown to increase eighty the company was founded by the director. Of the Glenn center for biology of aging research at Mitee basis works by raising levels of coenzyme called NASD and activating are ser- to. It's also known as our lung jeopardy jeans any levels decline in our bodies by as much as fifty percent by middle-age. Why care about that? You wanna stay healthy and functional for as long as possible, I've been nonfunctional. It's hell, we need any NASD for might Okondo function how we make energy for our DNA repair system for regulating, our sleep wake cycles, and activating tunes basis changes the way you age at the cellular level. This isn't just a guess. They've had a clinical trial that shows the two capsules every day increases NA D levels by average of forty percent. That's huge. The study was peer reviewed or is the only study to show increased in sustained levels of energy in humans. Their third party tested by labs, including NSF international basis customers report experiencing higher energy better sleep in more satisfying workouts. I'll be honest here. I don't supplement. Eat red meat. Insult. And that's it while bourbon, too, sometimes, but that's certainly not anti aging or healthy. I also fast if I worked on this extreme died. I'd be taking this supplement. Hell, I might be taking it if I weren't as sensitive as I am an extremely important. There's no question about that. You want levels to remain high in basis will do that for you? So what are you waiting for lobsters? Don't benefit from scientific breakthroughs in the field of aging, but you can finish cleaning room and get a subscription to basis this week listeners can get forty five dollars off six month or one year subscription to basis by visiting try basis dot com slash Jordan and using the promo code Jordan. That's try basis dot com slash Jordan and the promo code Jordan. That's a full month of free basis. And a great deal on a ground-breaking supplement. The Westwood One podcast network. Underwear? This is number where add, it is underwear that I wear that I enjoy wearing. So this comes straight up recommended by me, Tommy, John underwear started off, as a men's company branched into women's because there were so many women buying their husbands stuff asking for the same soft material. They used for themselves the feel like you're wearing nothing at all. Do people remember that episode of the Simpsons where Ned Flanders is skiing in a super sexy? Skintight ski outfit in Homer comments on how revealing it is. And Ned starts wiggling his bum and says something like it allows for maximum mobility. It feels like you're wearing nothing at all than Homer. Drifts down a ski slope and Ned pops into his head shaking his bums saying feels like you're wearing nothing at all. Nothing at all. Nothing at all. I think Homer ends it with stupid, sexy Flanders. Okay. That was random. I told you all I watched as child was Simpson's anyway. This Father's Day. Tommy John is reminding you that they're quick draw. Aw. Fly saves guys two hundred seventeen minutes of unnecessary fumbling per year. So instead of fly fishing in the bathroom. 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So you said that's really where things started for use you moved there where your team. Yeah. So what did you get involved in first of all, what kind of kid were you in school? Barely pay attention. I was I if ADD Israel certainly had it and I was very, very interested in what I was interested in. I was very uninterested in people telling me what to do, and I couldn't wait to get out of school, but I would sell at things that I had interest in and the initially was art was, I wanted to be a comic book, illustrator until a really got into martial arts and martial arts became the focus of my life. Around fourteen fifteen years old. That's when I really became massively obsessed. And that was really the first thing that I ever did where I really didn't feel like a loser. Like I really felt like oh I actually have some talent I actually can be exceptional. There's like something, you know, grew up constantly moving. Didn't really have a lot of friends. I would be new in this town. I'd get picked on wasn't a big kid. And there was a lot of a lot of issues with that, psychologically. And I didn't like being afraid of other kids. I didn't like not knowing what to do have Iran into kids. They were going to bully me and pick on me. So, I learned of the knowing thing not to what to do about. Yeah. Yeah. And you know, martial arts change that one hundred eighty degrees, and then it became someone, who I would be afraid of, you know, I became the opposite of what I was. So what I was with someone who's terrified of conflict didn't know what to do. And what I became was, you know, a Tondo champion became a martial arts champion, I knew how to fight. I done it so many times. So, like, what did you do just walk into a joint one day and decided that, that's what you were going to do like, how did it come about? It was very fortunate. I've done a little bit of martial arts training at a different place. And then one day I was in Boston for a Red Sox game at Fenway park. And as I was walking home to the train station with friend of mine. There was a lot of people that were leave in the baseball game. So the lines from the train for the t-, which in Boston public transportation was very long. So we decided to go check out the Jae-Hun Kim taekwondo. It's toot is right there. And I'd been really into martial arts because of what I said, you know, the aforementioned insecurities, and so I went up stairs. And as I was walking up the stairs. Just four two. To its -ly, a guy named John Lee was training, and John was a national taekwondo champion who was in preparation for the World Cup which was this huge event that he was taking the international event that he was about to travel to go to and he was in the peak of his training. And so I walked up to the top of the stairs, and I are heard this crazy sound of this, what it turned out to be this man, kicking this bag, and slamming, he'll into this bag and having the chain snapping and rattle and the thud of his he'll slamming into this leather bag, and I got up there in watch this guy workout, I couldn't believe a person could do that. I'd never seen. Anybody kick something so hard in real life. Anybody that had such incredible martial art skill like this guy did John Lee who became a mentor mine, and taught me quite a bit. But that changed every. I was there the next day, I talked to them to give me a brochure and a pamphlet, and I was there the next day, and I was probably there every day of my life, give or take a few days here there, if I was injured or something came up until I was twenty two years old. So how many hours sedate were you spending there all day? I had keys pretty quickly. They gave me Keyes of they wanted me will right away might structure recognized. That was pretty obsessed and I was physically pretty talented. So he had me teaching classes, instead of paying. He was like ligaments difficulty to pay like to have teach. And there was some wisdom's that too, because one of the best ways for somebody had good at martial arts, actually. Teach you actually refined technique. You think about it more. You're extremely to people that don't necessarily understand all the mechanics of it. So I started teaching I would teach private lessons. To beginners. I would teach classes in eventually went on to teach at Boston University. I taught at Boston University in when I was nineteen I was teaching a credited class. They're the actually count towards GPA. And so I did that, that was, I was already US open champion by then, and did it take. So you went in there when you were thirteen and your kid that was had moved around. Bunchin sports fifteen by the time I got to that school. And then I had my black belt by the time I was seventeen and I was competing in the adult division by them before I was ever eighteen competing as an adult. I mean he might have you put me in, when I was sixteen if I remember correctly. And then I won the state championship when I was eighteen and I wanted every year from then until it stopped. So yet. To run out of stare. How long did it take before? Like we're used we were you, still where you thin like you were you skinny kid when you started when did you start to bulk up and get big when it enough so that, you know, the problems with aggression stop, you know with other people's aggression stop being a bit of trouble for you. Well luckily with high school kids heard about it right away. You know, it was one of those things where, you know, you find out than the some one, one of the kids, he school with flying over the country kicking people in the head? Avoided me right. Became it wasn't like, you know, I, I mean, I certainly never sought out trouble. But people voted me would, you know, junior and senior year at become this weird kid that was obsessed with martial arts. You know, and I spent, you know, most of my life from the time of fifteen twenty one training and competing. I'd probably fought over a hundred times a traveled all over the country, fought, California fought. No high. Oh, but I thought all over the place and a lot of local tournaments in Connecticut, Massachusetts, and New Hampshire's, where one the US open, and I've, I've yeah. Just fought everywhere. And that was that was most of my life. Yeah. It was most of my life until I got into stand up comedy. Right. So that was a very singular life. Like that's you hundred percent. Angler Nikolay singular. But I have waited most of the pit balls of high school partying and all that stuff. I didn't do that because I was scared of getting hurt I was scared by showed up for training hung over that. I'll get beat up and that it would somehow I was scared of anything that would take even a tiny bit away from my performance as a fighter is obsessed with it. That scares scared of was that actually fear of, of being hurt because you made a mistake, or fear of losing the competition or fear of being hurt fear of losing the competition. Fear of her being hurt in training training alone was as scary as any competition. I just just complete completely by luck wandered into one of the best schools in the world for taekwondo that it hid. They had produced multiple national champions. And you know, real top of the food chain athletes in terms of taekwondo. It was just. Just dumb luck that I walked into that school. And, you know, I have walked into another school that was a few blocks away. That was terrible. I just got lucky. I got really really, really lucky. So how useful how useful are the technical martial arts like taekwondo in, like in actual streetfight. Not that useful. I mean more useful than knowing nothing, but not as useful, as Brazilian Jiu jitsu, or now, I lot of people now are just learning mixed martial arts. Right. Which is essentially what you see in the UFC where they're jack-of-all-trades master of none and the argument. There's two arguments. Like there's an argument that that is a good thing to learn in his other arguments that being a specialist. I is the best thing, and then learning the other things later in life is the best way to go about it like a specialist, particularly striker, or a grappler, like being an elite wrestler, or an elite jujitsu Artis. And then learning all the other stuff later in life because you have such a significant advantage. If you can bring the fight into your realm of expertise. So if you are a striker every fight start standing up, and if you're gonna lead striker, and you know, how to avoid take downs and you know, how to wrestle enough to keep a guy off, you you'll have such a significant advantage striking that you can dominate the competition, and we've seen that in the UFC we've seen that, with both grappling and with, with striking that it seems that if you become a specialist, in one particular area, and then learn those other things you'll be better off. But do you can't really just be specialists, whether it's in Moi tie or taekwondo, or did you get to, you really kind of have to understand if you're a grapple, you really have kind of understand striking? And if you're a striker, you really kind of have to understand grappling in order to at least it. So when so during this time to be new, you got to be pretty big guy. So when did that start having were you working out like mad will your training as well like I was much thinner was much thinner back didn't do much weight lifting those trying to compete in certain way classes. Like when I was seventeen was one, it was, I was cutting weight when I was seventeen and eighteen I was trying to make the hundred forty pound weight class, but it was really probably about ten pounds plus heavier than that. And I would dehydrate myself and it was really affecting my performance. And then when I was eighteen I moved up to the next week class, that was one fifty four, believe it was. And when I moved up to that way class, I got way better, that was a really excelled, that's when I became like a real national class athlete was when I moved up. And but I still wasn't lifting weights much. I was just doing Cuando training. It was just a lot of heavy bag work. Some cows. Connects, but mostly was martial arts work. Then when I started getting into jitsu long after stop competing. That's when I started really getting into weightlifting, because jujitsu involves grappling, and I think the advantage to being strong, and grappling is pretty significant. It's gigantic. And so that's when, you know, it was like twenty nine or so, like that, that's when I really started heavily weightlifting and getting a bit later. How long did your initial martial arts career last I thought from the time of fifteen and I have my last fight was either. I was twenty one or twenty two. I don't really remember those the last three fights kickboxing fights. And I had those while I was doing stand up comedy. So, I was I was spreading myself, too thin. I was working a bunch of different jobs. I was working delivering newspapers was working as a private investigators assistant. I did some construction. I did a bunch of different odd jobs to make a living and I had decided somewhere along. Newspaper reports construction agent jujitsu fighter stand up comedian. Nineteen year old situation. Yeah. Well jitsu came later, jujitsu, didn't come until I was, I think I was twenty eight or twenty nine when I first started trained jitsu those that was mostly just to tick, and really got into kickboxing and I was entered. I've I had three kickboxing fights entertaining. The idea of fighting professionally, but also starting to get really worried about brain damage. I started to see some signs kickboxing specifically. Yes, specifically because it was I was getting hit a lot more. The tick box sparring that I did. I did that over the course of about two years where really got heavily kickboxing. I did a lot of boxing sparring and a lot of what you call Jim wars. Where guys would just we would beat the shit out of each other, and you'll get hurt and he'd come home with headaches, and you're basically were fighting in the gym. I mean it's not a wise way to do it, though the smart gyms now and the best martial arts. They very rarely Spar hard. They most of the time they Spar technically. So they're, they're hitting each other, but they hit each other like this. They don't they don't blast each other full blast, they sort of touch each other that work not timing, and occasionally, you go hard just to make sure that you can survive with these techniques in a firefight that you know how to deal with it. Once you get hit, but we didn't Spar like that. We his Delos, the lower combat intensity. Still useful for training for the real thing. Yes. It's it's, but you have to have some high-intensity in some people that high intensity, they actually have drills that they use to sort of. To simulate actual exchanges that you would have there's a lot of science to it. Now that didn't exist back then the gyms that I came up in were real hard nose really tough gyms. And if you if you weren't top, you did not survive. And they weren't interested in anybody couldn't take shot or anybody that was willing to go to war. So you put on a mouthpiece, you put on a cop, you put your Hsien pads on and you'd beat the fuck out of each other. And that was a big part of learning how to fight. It was these sparring sessions were brutal there nerve wracking. It'd be scared. He'd be scared going into be, you know, be anxious the night before by new out of scar particular guy the next day because I knew was dangerous. You basically we're having fights all the time. So I'd have fights several days a week. You would fight. It was a really sparring you hit hit guys. They covering a lot to men all the time. From that, so. Okay. Speak hole in this story too. So like doing, great at taekwondo you go, your national level athlete and switch to kick Watson. You're worried about getting hurt in that seems reasonable has like how about not in brain, damaged by the time you're thirty but then, you know, kind of what I'm wondering like how many shots in the head did you have to take before you thought being a stand up comedian was good. Well, one of my dear friends to this day, a guy named Steve Graham. And Steve was when I met him, I was fifteen and he was probably thirty and he was going through his residency, as an ophthalmologist, and he had been a flight surgeon and the US air force, and just a he would have been on the US ski team, who's a national skiing champion, just a wild man. Just a guy who took chances and live life to the fullest, and was just one of the most working people ever met in my life. And. I would make him laugh and I would make some of the people laugh and training because we were always nervous everyone we go to tournaments. We were nervous because, you know, I'd seen many of my friends get knocked unconscious these terms, get kicked in the head taken to hospitals in, you know, I'd seen in the gym to a lot of guys getting beat up knocked out in the gym was constant in, you know, in, you know, it had happened to me a couple times I've been hurt. And so we had this gallows humor mover. We would go to these events. We traveled to these tournaments and everybody would be the ten should be so thick. Everybody would just dig take deep breaths and trying to relax just stay loose before you fight, and I would be the I would be the class clown in that environment. And also when you run high school or junior high like I didn't know that so but I did. Yes, I did have a sense of humor, but it would manifest itself in cartoons. I would draw. Cartoons of the teacher. You know, I would like draw cartoons of like certain kids that were kissed the teachers asked, I would draw them like kissing, the teachers ass and saying ridiculous things. And if the teacher was late to a class and, you know, and I knew I had enough time, I would put something on the chalkboard, and then pulled down the screen so that when they would go to use the chalkboard, chalkboard. They'll pull the screen back up and see this ridiculous cartoon that had drawn ho class with laugh, and then teach would ask who did this. And luckily, nobody ratted me out. But so I enjoyed making people laugh, but that was wasn't wasn't most mostly wasn't things I said, was mostly cartoons different. Yeah. Yeah. But with comedy with was with the, the fighting when we were getting ready to compete. I was just trying to add some levity, I was just trying to lighten up the mood because everybody was, and it was also it was a CIA. Charge environment. So anything that I said, that was actually funny would get a giant reaction, and that became addictive, and it was pretty good at doing impressions. So I do impressions of our friends do oppressions of our instructor all his in ridiculous situations, and my friend, Steve grim, and my the friend, Ed shorter. Another one encouraged me lost touch with. Unfortunately, he he said, you should be a Canadian. And my take on it was you think I'm funny, because you're my friend. But other people are gonna think I'm gonna asshole at the things that I think are funnier fucked up fucked up sense of humor. I mean here I am devoting most of my time trying to get really good at knocking people on conscious and that's what I was also trying to do. I was trying to separate people from their consciousness that was doing my best every day to get good at that. So mice, perverse, psychedelic drug gams the worst, but it was I was trying to hurt people. That's what I was trying to get good at trying to get good at hurting human bodies. And I just didn't think I thought that I was such a such a weirdo and such an outlier in terms of, like how society viewed combat physical hand to hand combat in interactions with each other that no one would think that the things that I was making fun of funding. And this guy convinced me to go to an open mic night. It's like you should. Oh might just go is a lot of comedy clubs in Boston going watch. And I went and watched and I realize, well, one of the things about going open mic night is most open mic. Medians are so terrible that encourages you to try it. Like, why can't be that bad? Like, I, I might have something that's better than some of these people. And then, you know, you'd see a real professional go up. It would be so discouraging because he'd say that got my got on. Never be that funny, guys impossibly funny. But I knew from martial arts that if I worked really hard at something to get good at it. And I had this thought that maybe I could do that with comedy because I didn't wanna fight anymore. I was already I was only on my way, kind of out the door really worried about the brain. I was on my way out the door. From the time I was like nineteen time I was nineteen start to worry about brain damage, and then you're like you're fifty three. Fifty one fifty one fifty one and so much. How much damage did you actually sustain, you know, like lots of I don't know. I don't know. How about physically muscular Lee in that sort of thing, all know buying I had surgeries. I've had my nose repaired. My nose was destroyed. I, I had no nose the inside of my nose was just didn't work until I was forty. And then I had a deviated septum operation, they cut out giant calcified, chunks of scar tissue. And also, I literally my nose was useless until I was forty years old. So that kind of a relief to have your news on my God, tell everybody, yet it done. If you have a deviated septum, he can't breathe at your nose, my God. This. I couldn't do that. So I was forty. Yeah. It was just all through. I broke my nose. Who knows how many times at least a dozen? And it would just was always bloody. I was always getting punched or kicks in the nose. Designed as a sense, organ to be at the in the middle of your face, where you get punched has this little tiny piece of cartilage, too. Hail from. Yeah. A way of the it also makes your eyes swell shut. It makes your eyes water mixed difficult to see when you get hit in the nose, the, the nose is really annoying. But other than that, I had both my knees reconstructed at ACL tears in both knees how to get them them reconstructed and, you know, a bunch of other stuff. Oh, yeah. So you took your much broken things. Good. The broken knuckles and broke off stuff. But everything works great. Now. I mean, after surgery and I mean for a person has been through what I do what I've done with my body, my body works remarkably. Well, that's me. Actually, you know that's a law think you'd be arthritic, at least in some of your joints and that sort of thing now I'm pretty good. I mean, I also very proactive, I do a lot of yoga. I've had a bunch of stem cell therapies to deal with some significant tears in injuries that have had. But all the, you know, knock on wood, everything works pretty good. But the brain damage thing is I don't know. I really don't know a really sit back thing about some of those wars that I was in 'em wars in particular, and some fights and my last fight. I got TKO I got stopped I got hit with a left hook and dropped. And my legs went out from under man that I got up and I get hit again fell down again. They stopped the fight. And that was what I decided, I'm going to stop. I was like I'm not giving this the same amount of dedication. I gave when I was at my best, I was reading myself way too thin with comedy. And I, I just didn't I didn't have this same hunger for it. But a high when I was young or younger, I was also very aware of the consequences at that point in my life. I was like this. I know it's going. I, I saw guys at the gym that were punched drop that we're slurring their words and they would forget things, and, and I've seen some people progress towards that. And it was very very disturbing to me. I'd be lying in bed at night after a hard sparring session my head would be pounding. Would think what am I doing my fucking brain? Like, what am I doing myself, and I got real lucky that I've found stand up comedy. I mean, if you see was around back, then I most certainly would have started fighting and you know, in to not be training intelligently. Because I wasn't training intelligently. I was trained like a meat head. And that was just all we knew about them. I probably would have sustained imprinted damage before ever even got into the octa. I probably would have already have massive brain damage before I ever had a fight. Right. Right. So you so what's good? So you you stepped out at intelligent time. And so then you started your comedy career, and you started at open mics and so, yeah, tell me about how that developed. Well, open mic nights. Very interesting. You sign up on a list, and you may or may not get on they pick people out of a hat. Like, say if there's fifty people sign up thirty people get on. And, you know, each do five minutes and, you know, the, the host is generally a professional comedian that brings people up. And, you know, you have this weird culture of people that are struggling to try to figure out how to make a living in sort of undefined art form. There's no classes you can take in at a really worth anything, there's no books that you could buy that are gonna teach you anything, it's something that you kind of have to the only thing that I like into is rap music because rap music seems to be very similar in the fact that you have to learn from other practitioners, he don't really learn from books you don't. There's no like maybe there is now I don't know of any like real legitimate university courses on stand up comedy. I don't think they could teach it to you anyway because everyone does it differently. But I think that's. The case with rap music as well. I think you kinda have to learn from the people that are already doing it and one good thing about Santa comedy, particularly today today, it's much more open and inviting and comedians have a lot more camaraderie than they did in the beginning because they're not fighting over scraps anymore. Now, there's so many venues, so many different places to work, and then there's YouTube, and the internet and comedians, there's much more of a supportive community of people trying to help people. And I try to really concentrate on that I spent a lot of time trying to help young comics. I put a lot of young comics on my shows have them host. You know, I've gotta show tonight in a young comics only been doing it for a few years. Her name's Allie Makovsky she's the host of she's really funny, and I try to encourage them. I try to help them trying to give them advice. Trying to give them pointers. I try to when they have great sets try to, you know, really thank them and say that was excellent. And you got this keep keep doing what you're doing. You can really make career doing this, because it's such a insecure business it just so it's such a weird undefined path. You have to take its and I love the art form. I love it as a consumer love it as a person who's audience member. I really still to this day enjoy watching stand up, but back, then it wasn't that supportive. There's, you know, we would just support each other. But the professionals were that supportive not like they are today. Few people, there's a guy named Lenny Clarke, that I'm still good friends with his day. And I, I opened up he was a Boston legend. And I was super fortunate to open up for him when I've been doing comedy for about a year, and he gave me some great advice, and that met the world, and he was actually, my podcast is last month. I love that guy. And, you know, he helped me out when I was really, really that was twenty one I was really, really young my coffee career. And so you started putting the same amount of dedication into that, that you had been putting into the martial arts. Exactly. Yeah. Came obsessed with it and just traveled all over the place doing doing open mic nights. I mean me and my good friend Greg Fitzsimmons. We started out together. We're good friends to this day. We started within a week of each other. And we, we used to travel all the way to Rhode Island would drive, you know, an hour plus drive to go down there just to do five minutes. And then we at open mic night for free, and it would drive all the way home and just dream about one day being shnell. That was the dream the dream was to pay your bills by doing comedy. Imagine if that, that you could do comedy for a living that was the dream would. I would never imagine that I'm doing what I'm doing now. I'm doing sold out. A read us doubt that wasn't even a hope not it wasn't even like, maybe if it goes, well, I could do this. Maybe I could do that was never on the menu. And you know it's gotten to this really crazy ass. Astronomical complaints now that it's very hard for me to even magin that, that came out of those strange days in Boston just traveling around all these different weird comedy clubs writing constantly, not knowing how to write not knowing how to formulate a joke, having mutton many more misses than hits in a lot of bombing. I bombed all the time. I deliver stage, you know, you gotta have that ability to bomb, come back from me because yeah, you're, you're gonna have a lot more misses than hits. That's for sure. That's a lot more early days. What do you think accounts for that obsessive nece that you describe that's negative way of putting it? I mean, obviously you said that, you know, when you in school if you were interested you weren't listening at all. But if you were interested in something you're like laser focused, everyday came up in the martial-arts, obviously, manifest. It self in the standup comedy, too. So what is it about you that enables, you what do you think it is about you? That enables you to zero in on something like that to the exclusion of everything else. I don't know. I mean, I think some of it has to be attributed to the unhappiness, my childhood that when I would find something that I did get some joy out of I would just concentrate, all in on that. I think some of it also was like I wasn't really raised with a lot of discipline, and I wasn't really raised with a Pat. My parents were both. I step dad. And my mom were both working all the time. So they didn't they weren't really around sort of tell me what to do or how to live, and they weren't really around to let me know that everything was going to be okay. They were always working, so they would come home from work like six o'clock or something like that. And, you know, I've been on my own all day me and my sister had been on her own. All day. You know, we'd come home. We had a key got into the house. And it was when I was a lot of real bad feelings, you know, like, and what I found something that made me feel good. I just did that exclusively. That's all I did. And I still have that problem to this day when I get obsessed with something if I find something that means something to me. I think of it all day long. Get obsessed with something it becomes it becomes like a mantra. That's in the back of my head. And I, I have to shut it off. Like I have to do my best to shut it off. Otherwise, I can't listen to people I don't like when people are talking to me. I don't wanna talk to them. I wanna go do that thing that I wanted to, you know, it becomes like a compulsion, and it could be socially negative. You know, could be detrimental to relationships and friendships. Yeah. That sort of thing is also absolutely necessary. If you're going to develop pilot skill at something difficult than unlikely because yeah, you're obsessive about practice like all the time. The people you're competing with. They're gonna they're gonna take you out. So funny thing would always be terrified that I would run into someone like me. Well. That was the feeder that I would run into someone who is a hundred percent all in, and then I was. And when I was fighting in what I lost my last kickboxing by I wasn't all in, and I knew I wasn't. And I knew I knew I wasn't the same person, I was what I was like eighteen nineteen I was a psychopath. I mean I was one hundred percent committed to doing nothing but that and then as I was examining my future prospects in my life, and I started to become more aware of the problems of what I was doing. I became less, and less, I, I had one fight, but I had in California at five in the US nationals in nineteen. Eighty must've been my. Seems like it had to been eighty six eighty six eighty seven somewhere around there seven somewhere on eighty seven I knock this guy out with a head kick in front of his parents. And it was it was everybody was people were crying, and he was unconscious for a long time. He was unconscious for solid half hour, who and they dragged him, they dragged him off of the, the Matt. They put him a stretcher. They took him to the hospital. A never saw regained consciousness. And I remember thinking that could've easily been me didn't have any allusions of me being some impervious in invulnerable person. And I was really thinking about how I hit him so hard by. He'll was hurting the next day I was walking with a limp from his head is I, we'll kicked him in the head. It's particularly brutal move. We spin and. Your, your whole leg comes around you're hitting someone in the head with your heel, and he fell like he'd gotten shot just fell face. First out cold snoring. It wasn't the first time that done that someone, but it was one of the most brutal because he kind of ran into it, too. He was trying to kick me as I was kicking him. So is the force of his body coming towards me, be hitting him. And I was thinking that guy's probably never gonna be the same again, like he's never going to get over it psychologically, or if he does, it's going to be very hard for him. But he might you might be damaged for the rest of his life. That's a real possibility. And then I started thinking, am I willing to have that happen to me at nineteen? I was nineteen years old. Like is this is this, which wanna do you wanna get hit in the head like that, and never be the same again at nineteen because it easily happen, you know? Yeah. We read sixty years to live like that. Yeah. We were at this was a national championship tournament. So he was a state championship. I think from Illinois and I was a state champion from Massachusetts. And it wasn't like he was a black belt, and it wasn't like he was unskilled God. So the fact that I was able to do that to him. And I was able to do that to bunch of other guys. I knew that someone out there could do that to me. I know that I knew that I wasn't the best in the world, and I knew that even though I was a top I was you know, I was a real national level competitor. I wasn't world class. I wasn't the best as. Especially at nineteen, and so that doubt that out stuck with me for the next couple of years. And it was it was probably the first seed of my new future was me hurting that guy and thinking about what that was going to be like, if that happened to me. Him. Well, that's a hell of a right, turn, you took there to go into comedy. So. Okay. So how now you became successful as a comedian. So you started playing in little clubs like stand up comedians dead. Yeah. How'd you get your brakes, your career develop how? How? It took a few years for me to get competent. You know, took like two or three years for me to get competent and then three years in. I got extremely fortunate again where I met my manager, my manager, who's my manager to this day. He basically pick me up when I was an open mic comedian minnows I was getting a few paid gigs here and there, but was really an amateur, and he found me. He was looking for new talent. He came up from New York. He is he was a like, you know, really well respected in well recognized manager. Still is, of course, his name's Jeff Sussman and we've been together for a shit. Now must be twenty eight years. Yeah, we've been together since really since I was an amateur, and he, that's a successful collaboration to, to spend that amount of time, not many changes. Yeah. We've been together forever. We've been together forever. We don't even have a contract anymore. We haven't had a contract that things like ten years. So doing all this time this is just like a bit of a side side question here, but you have any time at all to pursue relationships with women. Yeah. Well, you do comedy, you know you're in clubs at night. Yeah. You have most of your day to do whatever you want to just when I was just a stand up comedian, I had a lot of free time. I mean you're writing joke. Speaking, only do that. A couple of hours a day, you get bored, then it's not affected. And then he just kinda living your life in hanging out and sometimes the best way to develop your comedy to have good social interactions. It's actually kind of important when you're an aspiring comedian to be in a lot of social situations because you around people, you hear people say things, and then you think what they say, silly, or what they say, is, you know, you disagree, or you agree you, you see perspectives in points of view. And you kinda you develop you know, an understanding of how human beings behave kind of very important. So, yeah, I, I was around a lot of different girls. And a lot of guys. And just being out and, and you're always up comedy clubs nightclubs but I did I didn't go out other than that, you know, if I wasn't at a comedy club at night, I probably wasn't out. You know, it was always the same thing with, like my obsession with fighting and fighting came way easier for me than stand up did stand up was way, harder for me. It was way harder was way harder to. What was harder about what you said it took you two or three years to get competent? So that it was a lot of fallen flat on your face. I presume. Yeah. And even then even like three years in still could bomb at any moment. I mean, could have a bad set. I didn't know how to do it. Also, socially awkward. I think it took me a while to, to not be not be so socially awkward, you know that was that was an issue. And, you know, a lot of it was from my upbringing, but a lot of it was also a kind of, cultivate that was fighting. I didn't want people to like me. I didn't care. Like I didn't need them to like me all needed them to do. I mean, I kinda wanted them to be scared of, you know. So when I was fighting I wasn't trying to make France out there at all. I was I was just trying to fuck people up. When you were fighting when we're fighting, did you have any relationships with women? Or are you pretty good ones? Not. No. I didn't I wouldn't allow them to do. I wouldn't allow them to have much of my time. I didn't I didn't didn't I think, to have successful relationship, you have to spend a lot of time together, you have to communicate you have to use the personnel to almost be first place in your life. Yeah. That was never. That was never happening. And so that was that would come up very often. Like I was girl that I was dating in high school. And, you know, I used to teach at the school side, keys to the school. So one time I took her up there, 'cause I needed to get a workout in and she wanted to have sex at the gym, and I was like there's no way I wouldn't do it. I was like this place sacred like there's no chance, she's trying to full around and I was I was adamant. I was like this never happening. This is my might as well church to me, it's not happening. And, you know, so warning when I was seventeen or so. To me at seventeen or eighteen to say no to sex is crazy. Happening. I think we're gonna we're gonna clip that and put it in little clip. That says Joe Rogan tells the story that knows saying, man would believe. Well, you know, I was that was the first refuge that I had from my life of despair. So for me. I wasn't screw that up. Right. Right. I felt like disrespecting the the, the academy like that was like an adult not something. That's something when your teenager, taxi treated that way, it's a good thing not to mess with your fortunate enough to have I wouldn't even walk onto the training floor by myself with no one around without bowing. I mean there was no one there. But I would never leave the common area and step on the training floor without bowing. I never never never K. So when you're in comedy now, you said you were only in as a fighter youth figure you went only as a comedian to did you do that right from the beginning? Yeah, yeah. Pretty much. Yeah, right away, soon as I realized that I could actually do this, and I realized I decided, I mean, my first set that I ever did at a bunch of my friends down. Watchmen I wasn't good the first time ever gone on stage, but I got a couple of little chuckles in lapse, and then I realize this might be possible, I might be able to do this, and then I became obsessed with big around how to do it, because it was I, I saw it as a path, like okay. This is a thing like this is the thing you could do that. You actually love like I was a huge fan of the art form. I loved watching it ever since my. Took me to the movies when I was like fourteen or fifteen. We saw live on the sunset strip, who's a Richard Pryor movie in, in the theater, where he did stand up. And I never seen that war, and I remember thinking, how crazy is this guy can just talk and it's so funny. I was falling out of my chair laughing, and I was looking around I remember looking around while the movie was playing at all these people in their chairs is rocking back laughing so hard yesterday, something to saving so Bill closure when you're young teenager. Sixteen. I know you Bill Cosby, but I saw him live. And like I saw him live to when I was security guard him security guard at great woods kennison there when I was security guard Rodney Dangerfield there. Yeah. So quite a few people there. Yeah. What it was something to see him sit on his stool with his cigar and get the whole audience, like literally hysterical. Michigan front war rock and back and forth, so hard, he could hardly breathe. It's wife kept elbowing him. Get back into something vaguely resembling a human being. It was really amazing to see someone without much command the audience, and so consistently. Unbelievably funny, he is the most tragic story in all of show business to next to Michael Jackson. OJ Simpson minnows three most tragic stories in show business in my mind. Yeah. And and, you know, he's a monster and it's crazy. Really? To hell. You know, the thing that's so strange about Cosby think like was this really necessary like man, that guy was famous on fifteen different directions and really well respected. You wouldn't think he would have had to rape his women. You know it's just well, yeah. I mean he if he just he could have just had prostitutes. I mean if he really just needed sex. I don't think that's what it was. There was a sick perversion and I think he liked to do that to people he liked the trip. I mean, I'm just guessing right? Has to be something 'cause it's so it's so counterproductive in so psychotic. It's like I mean I don't understand it. You know, I've tried to tried to sort of imagine what it must have been liked to be around in the fifties, sixties. I think people did that to each other way, more often than we'd like to admit, and I think that it was more casual than we would think of today where people would slip someone a Mickey or even. Had a bit that he did back in way back today about giving someone Spanish fly that you give someone something that would make them Horning. I think he I think he was probably a guy that had an incredibly inflated opinion of himself didn't want anybody to ever reject him. Experienced a few time again. This is pure speculation and just decided he was better than people that he could just drug them. It's so same still because his comedy was facing than so, like generally family oriented, was yet Nonni put himself forward as a role model in. He was credible. He was credible as an actress role Marlin. He seemed credible as a spokespersons kinda kinda makes me think, you know, there's this idea that the psychoanalysts have is guiding Eric Norman, who is a student of Carl Jung's, one of the things that Norman said wrote a book called depth psychology in the new ethic right after World War Two in. It's a, it's a great book a little thin book, but it's a great book one. One of the things he says, in that book is don't be better than you are. And what he meant was he didn't meet don't improve like before he meant beware of adopting a persona. That makes you a far better person than you actually are. Because all of that part of you that you're not admitting to that's going to go off and have its own life. 'cause you're not integrating it, you know, you're suppressing it some way. And so it's a living thing you know that. What like the aggression you had when you were fighter. That's a big party. You know, you can't just push something like that. Assigning pretend it's not there and think that it's not going to go off and have some fun when you're not paying attention. Yes. Me like something like that was to Ghadames that he was he was split between this reading good guy that he was trying to be, which was like two good. And. And this, this, like, more monster side of his personality that he obviously, never integrated or perhaps, ever, even admitted to really a helmet story man, it's like an really isn't catastrophe. I think it was absolute bloody catastrophe for victim to ously. But just as a general cultural phenomenon is so awful. Yeah. I couldn't agree more. And you, you know, they say you should separate the man from the art, but in his case it's almost impossible to do because his art was his perception of life. So when you watching him, it's not like a painter, or even someone who makes a movie. It's like when you're watching him. You're watching him now in all you can think of as he's talking about these different things about a tall my children ways like doing this lovable dad. Yes, you can think of that guy rapes people. Yes. Rugs them and raped them. Yes. Can't enjoy it anymore. And he's unquestionably as far as skill. He was one of the greatest of all. Yeah. Yeah. All right. So you got you go to manager and got a good one. And what have you moved to New York? And then once I moved to New York, I started doing a ton of stand up comedy. I was traveling all over the place. I got better and better. And I kept working on it working on it, and just doing a lot of gigs and just going all over the place. And then two years later over you were. How old were you by the time you were like paying your bills stars your first marker for success? Probably twenty six twenty five twenty six was when it all started coming together not too bad. Yeah. I mean I wasn't Nike. There's a lot of money. I was making enough money to eat and pay my rent and then somewhere around, then I did a thing called the MTV half hour comedy hour. That was a it was a television. Show. They had on MTV and each comedian. I mean how how much time I did on the show. I think you do like seven the ten minutes or something like that wasn't a lot of time. And I had a set in a did on television, a went really well. And then next thing you know, I got all these offers to do television shows got developed deal offers and then. Before you know it, I'm living in California was like that. I mean, within a year, I was living in California, and I was on a sitcom, and, and then that sitcom got cancelled and I thought it was gonna move back to New York was called a hard ball it a baseball show on FOX sitcom about baseball team that show got cancelled and then I got a development deal with NBC. I was going to move back to New York, but I'd signed a lease for my apartment, I hated LA. I hated actors. I didn't like it. I was. So it was so disingenuous the world that I had come from where the worlds of standup comedy, which is about, as real, as you can get your funny or you're not and the world of fighting, which even more real than that. And then all of a sudden I was around all these people that were just fullish shit and weird. And it was they were put on these personas and they wanted the casting agents to like them. And the producers the light of and everything was fake, and everybody knew it was fake, but the all accepted it, and they talk steak and they and it was it was very, very strange. Very hard for me to deal with. I really didn't like actors I didn't like being and the only place that sought refuge. It's a funny thing there'd be an automatic assumption that because you were a good stand up comedian, that somehow you'd be an actor. Yeah. To be the same thing. Now they're not. But the thing is that a lot of comedians gone on to be super successful in the world of sitcoms Roseanne Barr. Jerry Seinfeld, Tim Allen, those type of people that these huge career Brett Butler, so because of that, all that was happening at the same time this is like a ninety four when I got on TV first time, and they that was what they're pushing and then agents and managers push that too, because obviously make tremendous amount of money. So that show got cancelled but I leased this apartment. So I was kind of stuck in LA. So all right. Let me just stay out here and see what happens for a year. That was my thought. And then I got a development deal with NBC. They wanted to do a sitcom with being that. I wound up on dishing for show that they had already had called NewsRadio now is with Dave Foley, and Phil Hartmann and more. Tierney and candy Alexander. Stephen root, Andy dick, and Vicki Lewis, and we did that show for five years. And then, you know by that time, I'd done a lot of stand up comedy store when that show was canceled fear factor came along. And I was touring a comedian. And no. That's whole switch there. So now. Yeah, you go from sitcoms to fear factor. So how often NBC came up to me with the idea, because I was on and B C previously. And they liked me. And then part of the thing was that I didn't wanna work with actress anymore. I was happy that fear factor was no actors. And I was like, oh, good. This is easier to do just me talking to people and since I had a background in coaching 'cause I had coached, a lot of people at tournaments in competition. I taught a lot at Boston University. I taught at my own school. I you know, taekwondo I was used to teach. People and I was used encouraging people and getting people motivated, and I knew how to I knew how to get fired up for competition. I understood you you're actually, one of the rare people in the world, who's actually trained to be the right host for fear factor. Yeah. A lot of ways luckily for two to sleep because I like I would want someone was nervous about do something I could grab them. And go look at it, you can do this. This is going to define you with if you back off right now and you get scared given your fears anxieties. This is gonna define you or if you just press Ford and realize you can do this and succeed. It will define you in a positive way and you'll build momentum in that direction, you can do this. And I would I was really good at giving people pep talks. I was really good at firing people up and it was part of the gig that it was. It was completely unexpected because I thought the gig was just going to be these people do these crazy things and you know. I make fun of it, which was part of my job. And I you know, we all cheer and, and it would all play itself out because it was a reality show. It was sort of a game show slash reality shows, like a hybrid. But somewhere along the line, especially when they became really nervous, if it was very intense. And it was moments where I really wanted these people to win. You know, one of these people to do their best, one of these people succeed, you know, and to be heard someone reading, man, you know, that's the basis of psychotherapy. So, you know, it's really something to get people to face their fears. I mean you're doing it in a very. Idiosyncratic way, very, very what unique way. But yeah, imagine it was psychologically, compelling, very often got any particular of any particular stories from that time got a good story from fear factor. Those one time where there was this couple not couple of family. It was a father and a son competing against the mother and the daughter and the fodder in some kind of jerks, which was part of the competition. It was a lot of trash talking, but they were really cocky, and they thought that they were going to win, you know, and it was, you know the. Apparent and child teams had gotten down to two and it was the man and his son versus the woman in her daughter. And everybody thought these jerks, we're going gonna win. We're kinda bummed out about it, but the, the women the woman and her child, you know, they just rose to the occasion, and I mean, I remember talking to them and firing them up, but I still I didn't know if they can do it. What, what was the challenge? It was. Some crazy thing that they had a climb and do this thing. And the, the I, I don't really remember all that together flags and all the time. But the sun the jerky son jerky dad, they kept screwing up, and they fucked up because, you know they, they kinda taken it for granted that they were gonna win. And when the pressure hit them at a news on the line, a lot of times jerks, or just insecure. And when they're under pressure when the really faced with real pressure, like this is the real moment, who are. Are you really fuck all that talk? Who are you really they fall apart and? The mother and the daughter one. And you're talking about a hardened crew of people that watch people eat animal Dick's and jump out of helicopters for season after season episode episode. You know, we did hundred something show the hundred. I don't remember how many shows. Probably one hundred forty episodes of that show. Everybody cried. Camera people don't cry now thinking about when the mother and the daughter was wasn't effective. We're so happy. There's a Justice to it right. Does it come up? It was a come up. It was an underdog. It was. Just seeing their spirit. No. When they were figuring out a way to win watching them win to this day. I'll tell you one of the things that's makes me really happy is inter so far, like I have a tendency to tear up in interviews, as you may have noticed. But this time it was used. So I'm quite pleased about that. Man, you do. Yeah, yeah. But particularly like that up. Sad things tear up for happy things. That's an interesting thing to think about too, because it's not exactly happy. Right. It's. You know, when these people come up to be they tell me their stories often makes me tear up because it's like it's like this of dead letty seriousness with a happy ending. You know comedy, it's a happy ending, but it's rough in effecting. It that makes me tear up, and I think my proclivity, I've always kind of had that ever since I was a kid, but seems to come back to you. Yeah. But it's always been happy things. There have been sad, things very hardy giving to cry, what sad things. Sorta. Yeah. Triumph success. People point through post fight interviews. When I worked for the u up, see what someone has a particularly incredible performance. I have the fight off tearing up. Feel so happy for them citizen. Susan strange that, it's that same response to Soro. It's the same response to Soro triumph. Tearing the hills up without, I don't. I don't understand that at all. I mean, also sign empathy. Yes, it is definitely signed at the but it's also is that would sad things I can I can. I can objectively analyze them and I could not get sad. I could understand that this just life in it is what it is. And I mean I won't feel good, but I won't start weeping. Don't weep for like sad things where we happy things, so you interesting. So, so in some sense, you've, you've trained yourself to detach yourself from not kinda Sorrell but not to detach yourself from triumph. I can rationalize in understand sorrow. I can internalize it. I get it. I know I know what it is in. You know, I just get so happy for people sometimes. When things go. Well, yeah, what am I guilty? Pleasures. I really like America's got talent and the baby. What the hell's the BBC quivalent isn't the x factor? Something like that. Yeah. Yeah. And it does the same thing to be. See somebody slug out there sub themselves out there on the stage. Looking pretty pretty damn dreadful in about four different dimensions, like knock it out of the park. Really? Yeah. It's, it's really something to Scott, some amazing. I think we as a human being realize how art it is to overcome competition is difficult moment. So these, these moments when you're tested and, you know, those fears insecurities, these people have to battle as well as the actual physical task in front of mish so much going on. And it is so much anticipation nerves and anxiety involved in that, that to see someone triumph. I mean, I am a student of human will. I love stories of discipline success. I don't like Batstone. I don't even like going to movies where they're sad. People told me about sad movies, stop. I'm not going that movie. I don't like it. I don't wanna see it. I'm not interested. I know what sadnesses. I've been sad. I get a managed in getting that in a form of entertainment. I like success. I like I like seeing people triumph. I like I like seeing the human spirit, manifest itself in spectacular ways for lectures. That's what's so fun to do them. You know, 'cause I'm out there trying to tell people that they have the opportunity to do that to point out to them to that, if they watch themselves, they noticed they love that, because, you know, things go to a basketball game or hawks game or something like that. Somebody makes spectacular play little celebration of the human spirit -bility, don't impossible in the moment. Everybody on their feet like one go, go. Yeah, that's. Yeah. That's that's more that the better is first concern. There's so much yet concentration on our on our destruction. Reek on the planet in our regional said in our weakness in, you know, the terrible things we do to each other. It's really nice to see situations where people are celebrating the triumph of individual in a group like that. And really says something wonderful about human beings steep in their core for all of our problems. It's really something to be part of that. Yeah. I couldn't agree more. And I think we concentrate way too often way too much on the negative aspects of people. It's almost like sports is about the only place that doesn't happen. You know, it's kinda strange because you do concentrate on the positive in sports. You celebrate the winners. You know, the cameraman don't go over interview the losers. You know, I mean and all that, but it's I don't why it is that in sports, it's okay to, to, to celebrate the triumphant victorious, but it is okay and no one questions it it's, it's a well that's not true because now they have known competitive games for kids. You know. That's hardly, correct curriculum. But most of the time, most sane, people will celebrate along with victorious athlete. Did not really something or Exo fear factor. How many years did that last six years with a good years is good financially? I made I made a ton of money and it alleviated financial pressure. But I enjoyed doing it some somewhat but it was not like the way I enjoy the other things, do it's not like I enjoyed stand up comedy. It's not like I enjoy working for the UFC. It's not like I enjoyed doing podcasts. All those things that I just talked about those things, those things are labors love. I their passions things that I'm really genuinely fascinated by an interested in this conversation. I would have this conversation with you. It was just you and me. And there was no cameras. I would love to conversation. I love having conversations with interesting people. I love San up comedy. I love all those things I didn't love being there for fear factor, but it was a great job. And I knew it was a great job. But I knew I was really lucky to have it. So it was great in that respect, but when it was over, I've kind of decided I was done with television when it was over, I was like, okay, I think I'm done with this. No more of this from, from here on out. I'm just gonna concentrate on my own stuff. And so from then on out, I just really focused on stand up comedy. And that's when my comedy career really took off was post fear factor, Mineta comedy career during fear factor. But it really took off post fear factor because I really gave it all of my attention. So what was what, what happened after fear factor boosted you on the comedy on the comedy circuit? Well did a special for comedy central and spike TV called talking monkeys in space in two thousand nine that was like probably my best work up until then, and then, you know, from then I've been on a pretty steady pace of doing specials every two years, or so ever since then. Right. Right. Enough seemed successful, non stop are getting better. It's yeah. I think I am. I think I'm getting better. I think it's one of those things as long as you keep concentrating on it, as long as you keep focusing on it. You're getting better. I think my our that I'm doing now is good anything I've ever done, and it's not even done yet. It's only six months into this hour, but I think some of my best work ever and really hard to see where it comes. Well, I mean, it's no rush. 'cause it's only six months, my last one, I probably will work on this run of the year before I even think about recording it Hoya. So if it's good by them. Yeah. It's a it's like a Sam. Soared, you're folding the medal and hammer and the blade full metal and Amer the blade. And you gotta know when it's ready I'll start to get a sense where it's ready in about a year in about one year, then I'll start going on. This seems pretty solid. Maybe it's time to rock roll, and then I'll contact net flicks. And I'll say, hey, would do it. You know, let's set it up and whatever, whatever city, I decide just a, pick a city, a picking just run over my head up pick an aim for it. You know, we'll maybe try to stay posted on what you doing. Come down and see it. That'd be fun. I make time you're here in Toronto. But I'd like to come and see one of your shows live. I think that'd be a blast. So, yeah. Oh, the Dicks was you see. Yeah. There was TV kind of you don't see happening while I was on NewsRadio actually well on NewsRadio start working for the way back in nineteen ninety seven. But it was the UFC was more of a sideshow back that it was banned from cable. You could only get it on satellite. TV. It was it was a freak show. People didn't know about it. I mean I love it. Because as a lifelong martial artist new, it's fascinating to watch all these different styles compete against each other. But it didn't pay much money and even though it was enjoyable for me. Got in the way of other aspects of my life. And so, I quit around nineteen ninety eight and then somewhere along the line in round two thousand one the he was purchased by this new company. And when they've perjured this might your phones, I have to take these off and on plug this here, can you hear me still good? Yeah. Okay. Once it started once the, the new company took over. They were trying to get people to to go to their events. And they asked me to go to the event, you know, when I was doing fear factor. And so I went and washed it live. And when I was watching it live I was talking to. Dana white who is the president of the US AM, just talk about sport in all these different things, I think about, and are you interested in this guy was asking various obscure fighters were competing Japan? Maybe he didn't know about trying to get east guys. And then somewhere along the line said, hey, you wanna do commentary? And I, I can't I was like I don't wanna work man. I'm just here. I just want to enjoy this. He and I became friends, he talked me into doing it, and I, I did it for free. I did like twelve events or so for free just for fun. Just get tickets for my friends, and I'll go and I'll do commentary for you. But I I didn't take it that seriously. I, I didn't everything was going to be, you know, a career. This. You know, well known commentator in mixed martial arts. I thought I was doing it as a favor for them and for fun for me. And you know loan behold, he we are eighteen years later, I'm still doing it. Presume they're paying you now. Oh, yeah. They pay me a lot. That's good. That's better bargaining position, I would say, yeah. Yeah. It's very generous, so that, that's kind of understandable transition, some sense because, you know, you are you got your social skills. Highly developed a new guard. Your ability to be witty on demand. Harley developed them to pay attention to audience, you had the martial arts background. So you have see commentator up that makes sense instead. All right. So now where does the podcast come in how the hell does that happen next? I guess it's next. Yeah. The podcast is two thousand nine I guess, when it first started in the podcast was basically it was just for fun. It was like something to do with my friends me, and my friend drying. We just decided to set up a laptop, and people would ask questions, and we would just start just talking about things, and then it became a weekly thing, and then we start uploading into I tunes, and then you know, I started getting guests. And as the, the I mean it took years before it was profitable. I mean I just it was just for fun forever. Like a lot of things that have done. It was originally just for fun. That's pretty podcast to the way, two thousand nine so very early Fard cast were, I mean for lots of people they're still not saying, although that's really changed in the last three or four years. I mean, you know, yeah, they're definitely a mainstream media. Phenomena now two thousand nine being that was that was fridge stuff fundamentally. Yes. Yeah, it was very fringe. Market at that point. I would've thought not much. What nice no, there was no ads. We didn't have ads for years, and then slowly add start trickling in the first ATP was the flesh light, which is masturbation device. It was so funny story about Sam Harris Sam Harris who was a guest really early on. When the flashlight was the only sponsor requested that we not have the flesh light as sponsor on the episode that he was on. And so, I was like, okay, so I took that week off just decided no no sponsor that week. Sandy on for very many reasons. It's funny that, that I well, you know, pornography leads the way right? Yeah. Well, the internet. Yeah. Yeah, it is kinda funny. Yeah. And, you know, even also funnier is that the guy who was I guess he was a CEO of the flashlight or marketing something another, plus he went on to form on it with me so on it, which is my fitness and supplement company. He and I are partners in this, and it came out of our the thing with the flashlight, our business agreement because it was really profitable for the flashlight and he realized early on. Like, wow. Like having a podcast Bonsor something being credibly lucrative. If the podcast is well, respected and well received like this is sort of an untapped advertising market. Hey, lit start a business. And just use the podcast as a method of launching this business. And let's see how goes. That's and that became very successful too, but the podcast sort of took on a life of its own. It went from being just me hanging out with comedians talking to me, interviewing people like you are having conversations I should say, more than interviewing people like you and, you know, scientists and archaeologists and doctors. And I mean everyone started talking. Oh, you started talking to everyone. Yeah. Everyone really. Everyone was. Most comedians to begin with. Yes, it was almost all comedians, the beginning, and the everyone part is interesting because that's something that people resist or resent more than anything now like the thing about this, that you see, now, you see this, this, this expression giving someone a platform. Why would you give some someone a platform with those ideas really comes down to this concept of silencing opinions that you don't agree with and my thought on it was has always been? I wanna talk to all kinds of different people. And even if I don't agree with them. I wanna find out why they think the way. Well, there's also element of useful disagreeable there. It's like I'm gonna talk to the hill. I want to. Yeah. I don't care what you think about it. I interviewed Marlow speaking of people that you're not supposed to be talking to recently. Yeah. Like a week ago. Yeah. So take a lot of heat from that hasn't been broadcast yet. I don't think. I don't think I'm going to take a lot of heat for, you know, because it was we didn't have a political discussion. We talk discussion. Well hundred interest was really curious about how he got taken down. You know, when he when Horgan about his, his, his sexual abuse when he was a kid and defend some sense. Like I. At that interview. And I knew he was in trouble as soon as he completed it. I figured nor your you said things that you're not allowed to say, and right. I think part of it was that see I'm splitting two parts watching it part because I was also watching it as clinician. I thought it was admirable of Milo to refuse to take the victim stance because he had been such anti victim. What would you call it agitator or advocate? And so he said while I was a full participant in this. But then the Clinton to be thought, no man, you haven't updated your memory since you were fourteen like you're still thinking of adult Milo, as fourteen year old Milo, and you're not thinking about fourteen year old Milo as a kit. And so that was bad for me to see that because often when people are traumatized in some sense around the area of trauma. They. They don't sure like it's like they get stuck. Well, look Agean that you're on a path. And you, you, you come towards obstacle impenetrable, but you really need to get through it to fully develop like it's part of what you need to grow up. You can't. So you walk around it, you know, but you leave the party yourself that could have matured behind there. And because it didn't deal with the challenge like this is sort of what you were experiencing. Maybe on fear factor. Maybe why you're such a what you're so mostly affected by triumphs. It's like you get defeated by something like that. You can't overcome it this party that gets stuck there sense and something Freud observe like a hundred Mme near must be a hundred twenty years ago, people would fixate at a certain age, because something had happened to them or at least part of the personality, would I could see that happening with Milo and I thought that he was in the reading tough spot because he'd been molested. He didn't wanna play the victim. He yet he actually was victim, which was the perversion, damn thing. And that, you know, the way he spoke about it could easily have been twisted misinterpreted party because of his own doing into a 'cause I justify -cation for pedophilia. And then he also said while, you know, this was relatively common practice in the gay community. I figured it'd be cut to ribbons for for, for bringing that up. But he's handing in the interview it was really weird. You know, he said that it wasn't the left wingers, took them out. It was the conservatives and it really had because he, he was slated to speak at CPAC, and then and the straight Republican types, knocked the Trump types, you know, but, but the more classically conservative Republicans think that Milo Yannopoulos was the right kind of guy to have speaking at CPAC, and so his senses that it was actually the mortar. Right. Wipe them out. And so that. Was why was interesting by didn't expect that and he we also talked to fair bid about, I can't tell you all of it, because nobody else to watch the damn podcast, but or listen to. But, you know, he's, he's also shifted, his viewpoint quite substantially on what happened to when he was fourteen the he describes the process. He went through to kind of rethink that northeast controversy caused so, you know, I think well that was our conversation. Lasted a couple hours. It was you know, I asked him how he was doing what he was planning on doing that. So that was kind of interesting to find out too, but we never got into anything that was remotely political. And so I was happy to have the conversation, you think about people like Milo is, I don't give a damn what you say about Jones is the same sort of person. I think the same thing about Tommy Robinson for that matter. It's like if people are interested. They're strange people, and they have they have an effect on the world. Like, what are you supposed to do? Are you supposed to what you've not supposed to be curious about that? It's like. It's like. Bilo. It's the deep latte forming thing like they did. They have this idea that you should not have a differing opinion. If you have a different opinion, it should never get a platform, and I think, well, it's also more perverse in that, even the idea that if you give someone like that, quote, a plots for, so, you know, you're willing to talk to them that you must agree with them merely begets conversing with them, and it's like, yes. And that's a that's a that's a well that guilt by association. Assumption is terrible. What does it mean only gonna talk to people holding Suckley the same ethical views that you hold on anything on? Every yeah nonsense. It's like that date into science thing that came out connecting everybody is all right? Gateways because they've talked to people that are on the right, you know, I, I tweeted that lady, when she wrote that I said that Barbara Walters interview Castro does that make her a communist and basically, how I my take on all this stuff is there's nothing wrong with talking to people, and I feel like Milo in well, my role, you know, almost been his own worst enemy, because he's such a provocateur and now they've turned a lot of that stuff that he was saying as provocateur and they've turned it against him. But I think that you and him have this one thing in common, and that you get categorized by lazy, people who are not good at nuance. And they put you in this box. That other people have created and this boxes. Oh, this is an all right. This, this is a conservative that this guy's a Nazi. This guy's a white supremacist this that, whatever it is. They put you in that box. And then socially, you have to in order to fit into the ideology in order to fit into this group. Think you have to sort of accept these definitions, that this person's bad. You know that, that person Gavin mcginnis Nazi Milo Yannopoulos, Nazi that these people this, these are the problem without any real understanding of who those people really are with any real on the cab. Right. Hey, where the way we're launching our alternative social media platform sued. We go on. Yeah. It's gonna be well, we, we tried out the first of the technology, just Dave debated slaver shisha on Friday last Friday. He was hypothetically, the world's foremost Marxist philosopher, although it turned out that he wasn't really a Marxist at all. He called himself a had alien which is actually way gift of being a Marxist in. So it wasn't really much debate. It was more me attacking the communist manifesto for half an hour, which rather rather straightforward thing to do. And then having a rather CUNY in productive discussions for about an hour and a half, but anyways, make spot tested their technology. So livestream technology. We've got some cool features that no other platform has. So it'd be a subscription service. And so that's partly what makes it a replacement for patriots to some degree, you know, because we want to be able to monetize creators, but we've got new different terms of service in so the. Essential issue with the terms of service will be that once you're on our platform. We will take you down unless we're ordered to by US court of law. That's mazing the idea. So we're trying to make an anti censorship platform, and then we've got other features to that are quite cool in unique. So, for example, it's d- might be interested in this with regards to your podcast. So if you listen to your podcast on our platform, people will be able to, like pick time in the podcast, like maybe a thirty second clip, just Mark it out bail to either make written comment about it or an auditory comment. And then send out to a friend or post it so that their own running continual running conversations in audio in written form on podcast, content constantly, we wanna do the same thing for you to video so that people can append their own video to any part of video. Oh, and then distribute that to their network, or also posted so that people can watch, you know, so we're hoping we could get a real dialogue. We can really add dialogue to the to the podcast, and, and you to world. We're also going to do the same thing with books. So if you buy an e book on the platform, you'll be able to annotate publicly, and so what that should mean is that every book, that's sold on our platform that many people purchase will become the center of multiple conversations, and we can do that with books that are in the public domain, so for them. One of the books, we're gonna post right away, the on good Nevil by Nietzsche. And I'm going to start annotating you know, in, so what, what that should mean you know, if you look at the Bible's, good example, people banana tasting it for like five thousand years, right every, I has God books written on it. So just this incredibly expanded document, it's pull. Thousands and thousands of people to this collective conversation. His platform should be able to allow people to do that with, with great works of art. Well with also with current current affairs events and such while YouTube videos podcasts, and so it's nice look to it. It's got a fairly professional feel we're hoping that we'll build a poll, people who are interested in intelligent, conversation, specifically into this platform. You know, maybe start pulling away from YouTube and some of the less specialized channels open. It's a that, that, plus you know, our anti censorship stance, be invitation, only to begin with, so that we can well, so that we can attest, make sure the damn thing works that were not fooling themselves about its appeal. So that's come a long ways. Hopefully, I think we've got four five six people who. Who are interested who are lined up. Ruben is gonna use it. I'm going to use James all tutor jock a willing. Michael shurmur. I think those are all end Carl Carl Benjamin are gonna the cat nobody. Our first beta testers fundamentally. We reached awesome. Yeah. I'm looking forward to it. Man. If, if the bloody thing works, I'd like to have a conversation with you about it at some point because I sure love to try, okay? Okay. Well all let, let the developer. No, but I think that I think the annotation feature could be really cool, and we're also setting it up so that if you do comment. You're all the comments will be up and down voted. And if you're ratio of down votes to up votes, foles below fifty fifty then your comments will be hidden people will still build a see them if they click, but you'll disappear from the mainstream we don't know fifty fifty is right. We're gonna have to play with that because we're also trying to control stupid, trolling. And I think we're gonna put a minimum length requirement on for written comments. So he can't just say four words like this guy's a fucking like no would I that so that, you know, minimum comment length is fifty words. You're going to have to put a little thought into even if you're being troll. Hopefully OB was I- witty troll. So. Anyways. Yeah. That's all to the battle. Right. Trying to combat the trolls and some sort of a way or mitigate their impacts. Ultimate godless is to do that without being censorious, right? Because. Yeah. People to express their opinion. But there's a difference between two subtle, but there's a difference between productive dialogue and and provocation without wit for the perp causing trouble. There's so many people out there that are just bored, and that's what they use the internet for their at work. They're in a cubicle day, and they get their jollies out of just fucking with people online in my producer, Jamie. He has a friend who does that mean this, this friend does he has a bunch of accounts, and he just trolls people, he tries to troll celebrities, and he tries to get them to respond to him. And he says mean things to them. And you know, that's how he that's how he entertains he's at work, Dirk side. That was manifest too much for greater degree in Bill caused. Yeah. You know, it's now right guy. Guys, also depressed. He's also. A depressed guy failure in life. And, you know, he's everything you would expect. Yeah, I want to use that kind of time for. So, you know the issue with him as he should take some about. So he would admit to himself his aggression seed, come to terms with it. He could take that damn aggression, and he could integrated into his personality and that be able to focus on his life, you know, like you said, when you know you start of your, your martial arts. That you are obsessed and you are also sick of being pushed around and all of that, and you were like willing to do something about it. But obviously, it's obvious just talking to you that the aggressive part of your character's, like deeply, integrated side view. It's not high note, some corner doing stupid things that, you know, you're not paying attention to it's right there at hand, and you get a guy like the one year talked about, he split into meek and depressed. And ineffectual on the one hand and cruel and resentful and bitter on other those two things would marry you know, he'd get half his personality back in maybe some of his dynamism a real waste of time. What Pete, a lot of people just feel just totally powerless. And they feel like this is the only way they can affect others is by reaching out. Trolling saying mean things, I think that many people take these terrible Pab and live. In their lives, which are not productive, and they don't they don't feel good about it. They don't they don't respond well to whatever they're doing with their life, and they have this constant state of anxiety. It's like throws quote. Most men, live lives of quiet desperation. Yes, except the trolls live life of noisy desperation. Yeah. That's what the internet has allowed. Yeah. We're not gonna wrap this up. I gotta get outta here. Unfortunately, this is a long wonderful conversation, though. Like we always have a really appreciate you. Hey, what we your? Do you go up? Thirty seconds. Yes. Yes. Sure. Okay. Well, let let's send it off. I wanna know what? Okay. What are you up to next man? Like what do you want to have happen? You've got this crazy reach you've got this crazy platform. What's what, what's, what's on your horizon, anything why you're doing? No, no. I just enjoy what I'm doing. I'd like to continue doing what I'm doing. I'm very happy that people enjoy the show. I'm very, very happy that it's affecting people in a positive way that they're getting inspiration out of it, and they're getting information and entertainment education, and it means the world to me. I love it. A love doing the podcast a love doing stand up. I love everything that I'm doing. I mean, I'm very, very happy with my McCreary and family life. I couldn't be happier. So I just like to keep doing what I'm doing. I don't have any crazy ass brations other than continuing to get better at everything that I try to work at. Yeah. Well, that's, that's a craziest ration- man because. You don't things going for you very, very unlikely, you know, and to and to hope I don't mean to hope that they'll get better. But to continue to work to get those better out. Seems like sufficient aspiration for my perspective. I think if you work at anything, if you work at anything you're trying to improve, and if you, there's, there's, you know, there's always room those room for improvement and everything in your personality, always work in everything. That's what I strive for strive for improvement. Yeah. Well that edge of improvements. Good place to be. Yeah. Look, I want to also thank you. My pleasure. Just just so you know, you know, you're, especially that first interview he did with me. My pleasure that was really helpful to me. And I mean, I've enjoyed all the talks that we've had, and they've been really productive, and they had a big impact on my life. But lots people of large them, and so they seem to be seems to be that we've had a pretty productive series of interactions. But I do. You'll do. Oh, yes. Thanks. Also. Thanks for coming on this podcast. Man. It was really good. And I will I will definitely talk to you about things spot. If once we get it going, and see that it works, because it's I didn't have any hope for its success when I was a little ugly baby thing because, you know, it's too possible but it's looking pretty damn good. And scott. Some cool features. So be nice to have a censorship, free platform. If we can figure out how to do that. That sounds very exciting. I'm very interested. I can't wait try. All right, man. Thank you, Jordan. Hey, thanks. My pleasure. And good luck with your improvement. And I'm looking for any special. Thank you, Joe. Thank you. My brother. Take care. Bye. Bye bye. If he found this conversation meaningful might think about picking up dad's books maps of meaning the architecture belief or as newer bestseller twelve rules for life in antidote to chaos. Both of these works delve much deeper into the topics. Jordan be Peterson podcast. See Jordan be Peterson dot com. For audio e book, and text links or pick up the books at your favorite bookseller. Next episode on the Jordan Peterson podcasts. We'll be one of dad's twelve rules for life lectures recorded at the center in the square in Kitchener Ontario on July twenty first twenty eight teen should be good. Listen, as usual enjoy your week, people, I'm stoked to be alive. Hope you are too. It's an amazing world out there. Talk to you next week. Follow me on my YouTube channel Jordan. Be Peterson on Twitter at Jordan. Be Peterson on Facebook, Dr Jordan Peterson and Instagram Jordan dog be dot Peterson. Details on this show access to my blog information about my tour dates and other events and my list of recommended books can be found on my website, Jordan Peterson com. My online writing programs designed to help people straighten out their pasts understand themselves. In the present, and develop a sophisticated vision and strategy for the future can be found itself. Authoring dot com that self authoring dot com. From the Westwood One podcast network.

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Territory, Hierarchy, Security, and Fear

The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast

1:51:54 hr | 1 year ago

Territory, Hierarchy, Security, and Fear

"Welcome season two episode twenty. One of the jordan beep petersen podcast cast. I'm michaela peterson. Dad's daughter collaborator mastermind behind the jordan be peterson broadcast and only purely carnivorous offspring offspring weekly update. Mom is still stable and you're still stressed still turns out. She didn't go home from the hospital instead. She's being transferred from canada to america where they are finally going to fix her so that's happening this week while next week actually hopefully i'll we'll be able to update you guys the week after next about how it goes. I honestly think things are going to be okay. Finally though it's been a hell of a long time nobody is atlanta's atlanta's my mom though let's see any other updates not really when we return dad's twelve rules for life lecture from july twenty seven twenty mm-hmm lincoln. One of my friends thought he didn't need a c._v. Because he had linked in profile he was wrong but i can see why he was confused. 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That's butcher box dot com for twenty dollars off your first box plus two pounds of ground beef anti packs of bacon which box dot com slash dave ep or promo code the j. b. p. at checkout. Please welcome my father dr jordan peterson. Tim burton's or a soft hearted bunch. Thank you think hutch appreciate. I see that six hundred activists didn't scare you off a shock by that. You know that was the that was the longest petition that anybody's managed to put together so far so impressive. It was good of the theater not to lose their spine. The need spine you know because you can't stand up straight without one okay so i've been working on some ideas ideas that i'm going to share with you tonight. I really some of you know. Perhaps that i spent four. I was at at four venues with sam harris to in vancouver and two one in dublin and one in london and there will be released relatively really soon as soon as we get the production straighten out in the audio cleaned up and all of that so and they were very helpful they helped. Let me think some things through. I figured out some things that i hadn't got clear about twenty five years of thinking and so it's useful to talk to somebody that you disagree with you know if you can have an actual conversation with them because especially if they're sharp because they push you to make things clearer than they were before and you might say well who cares if they're clearer but you know you act out your thoughts and so if your thoughts are clear then your actions aren't precise and and did you get into trouble miss kind of self evident right. That's why you think and so you should think sharply because you need to act carefully and so it's very useful talk to somebody who has thought things through doesn't think the same way you do like what the hell do. You know if you talked to somebody the disagrees. There's israel some real possibility. They'll tell you things. You don't know that's rule nine. Assume that the person that you're talking to know something you you don't because you need to know what you don't know unless everything's perfect for you. Out seems highly unlikely so well. That's the that's the mark of your ignorance. That's right if your life isn't everything that it should be then. You don't know enough to simple as that. If you talk to people who think exactly the same way you do then all they're going to do is tell you the things you already know and clearly if your life isn't everything it could be then what you know isn't enough so you should seek out some enemies and see if they can inform you because then and while there'll be a bit more to you and maybe we'll think of it more clearly and you want to have such a wretched miserable time of it so okay so off about thirty years ago when i started thinking about all the things that i wrote about in maps of meaning in my first book which is released by the way in audio form on june twelfth so if you're interested in if you thought the twelve rules for life was useful and you want to go into the ideas that are in more deeply then that's a good way of doing it. It's a very complicated book but it was out of that book that twelve rules for life arose and the reason that i wrote both a-this books fundamentally because well it started with with something i was obsessed about. I got obsessed about the fact of the cold war back in the late seventies and early eighties and i it was really well. It seemed like seemed surreal to me that the world had divided itself obviously not just to me but the world has divided itself into two armed camps each of which pledged allegiance. Let's say to a different system of beliefs leaves. That's not so unbelievable but what was unbelievable that was that those beliefs were so important to the east east and the west that we seemed willing to put the whole world to the torch at least to risk that to protect act those systems right. I mean at the height of the cold war each side the soviet side and western capitalist side. Let's say had tens of thousands of hydrogen bombs aimed at each other on hair-trigger and i don't know how much you know about about hydrogen bombs probably not a lot hopefully not a lot <hes> but you know that in hiroshima and nagasaki lucky the americans dropped atom bomb so no cities to devastating effect hydrogen bomb has an atom bomb for the trigger so so that's the difference between fission bomb fusion ball for a fusion bomb. The bomb is just what gets it started and we had tens tens of thousands of those things aimed at each other. There's still plenty of them around. It's not like we're out of the woods out of the weeds. I guess but it's better than it was and so i was really obsessed with trying to understand how could it be. How could it be that belief. Systems could be so important that they you their maintenance was worth sacrificing everything to not just our own lives say but the past and the future you're life itself. Maybe it struck me as a very interesting psychological issues like how how could it be that belief systems in some sense could be more important than everything everything it just didn't make sense to me and you know i had been studying political science and i kind of liked that first year or two. When i stood political science i liked that studied the great political thinkers political philosophers you know the classic political philosophers plato and aristotle and hobbes and russillo and john stuart mill john locke etc. I really liked that. I thought that was extremely helpful. But i wanna got up into the upper years. In my undergraduate degree agree i was taught essentially that people were motivated by economic concerns and that that was fundamentally what drove conflict and war. I thought no. It's not a very good explanation because it's missing something to say that people fight over what they value is to say almost nothing at all obviously obviously people fight over what they value so it's not helpful. The question is why do they value what they value. That's the fundamental question so i stopped studying having political science and i started studying psychology because it struck me that the fundamental problem wasn't political or economic or sociological it was psychological colossal and i believe that's the case which is why twelve rules for life and maps and meaning well concentrate so much on the individual because that's the psychological level of analysis and i think for this particular problem why our belief system so important. It's the psychological level of analysis. That's correct so i had this intuition that you need a belief system to structure your action in the world. You need a belief system to get along with other people and you need a belief system to protect you from meaninglessness. Let's say meaninglessness. That's nihilism and depression the whole end of what would you call it. The existential spectrum veteram that you can have it where you're essentially just flooded with negative emotion with emotional pain anxiety and that's unbearable and they're sort of the default condition of human beings. I would say it's probably the default condition of life itself very well. Widely distributed distributed religious idea that life is essentially suffering and and it stands to reason because people and other creatures are vulnerable trouble and mortal we can be hurt we killed and and things tend to go from bad to worse of their own accord and so the default condition of life isn't satisfaction or happiness or even neutral emotional being it suffering and you need something thing to set against that suffering partly because he actually have to do something about it right you have to act in the world you have to act productively in the world or you. Don't just feel terrible you actually degenerate and die so the suffering is reflective of your actual vulnerability so it's practical necessity to act in the world world and it's also a psychological necessity act in the world and you have to organize your actions toward some end and that should be a valuable end. It's your belief leave systems that organiz your actions towards some end and so they protect you your belief system protects you from being overwhelmed with negative emotion so the problem is one of the problems is this group of people might have belief system a and this group for people might have belief system be when you bring them into contact with each other. There's conflict and conflicts the way of the world. I mean when you have a relationship with someone. Individually you both have slightly different beliefs systems or maybe substantially different belief systems and you try to inhabit the same space within in the confines of an intimate relationship. There's going to be conflict and it's because you need your belief system and yet personnel and person b. Think about the world differently currently so conflict is inevitable. Well conflict between the individuals conflict between groups conflict between nations promises mrs that we're so technologically powerful now can't afford conflict between nations but people aren't going to give up their belief systems because because if you give up your belief systems then you don't have anywhere to go and you don't have anything to do and you fall into nihilistic suffering and that's no good because it's too painful well. It's counterproductive first of all plus. It's painful plus. It sayings already provoking but it's worse than that because and this is where things really go off the rails trails. You know if if you don't have a belief system that's working for you. Then not only are you in emotional pain not only are you not doing well l. and emotional pain and anxious but that isn't where the degeneration stops because if you take anyone including yourself and make them mm suffer stupidly pointlessly they don't stop with being in emotional pain and being anxious they moved from that to being king resentful and revengeful and cruel and murderous past that there's plenty of places past murderous genocidal. There's places past genocidal because it's one thing to want to white people out and it's a whole other thing to want them to be as miserable as you can possibly make them before you wipe rape them out and that's sort of where things and although i suspect explored nooks and crannies of hailed it even extend beyond that so yeah well if you're if you're familiar to some degree with human history or perhaps particularly the history of the twentieth century you know that people in states can go places that are so unimaginably unimaginably dark that you can barely tolerate reading about awesome right much less you know being in a situation where the thing you're reading about is actually happening so it is not a place that anyone wants to go. You ought to have your belief system but if you have your belief system then you're going to have conflict inflict with everyone that has a different belief system and we can't afford unlimited conflict anymore so that seemed to me that was a very shocking set of discoveries for me because i thought that at the time when i was thinking these things through i thought if you thought something through then the answer would appear merely as a consequence of having done the thinking properly but you wouldn't end up in a dead end where option was terrible and option. B. was terrible and that's all the options there were. That's not the only option that's not the only two options so you would think that it would be because the one option is you have beliefs another option. Is that you don't have. Them doesn't seem to be any other options but there are now i want to tell you that's a that's a kind of wave. Are you laying out the structure of the world on one end of reality. There's a state of nihilistic chaos and on the other end. There's a state of totalitarian uncertainty and both of those are unacceptable options okay so then what's the what what's what's the alternative to that so i'm going to tell you a little bit about the way the taoists look at the world to begin with because they've produced a conceptual sexual system that i think is unbelievably helpful. I think it's correct so it's hard to understand because it isn't like like the way it's a way of portraying reality. It isn't like the way that we portray reality us. Westerners materialists atheists essentially in in our in our oncology our theory of being now we may be religious or not we're mixture but fundamentally the west it is a materialist atheistic society and it's become extraordinarily technologically powerful as a consequence of that so you can't dispute the power. We're of that perspective as a set of tools. Materialism is unbelievably useful but it leaves us bereft of of meaning for example apple which is a big problem given where the lack of meaning takes people. The dallas thing that reality is best construed as combination of yin and yang utah with the dallas symbol. I presume it's circle with something that looks like a white paisley inscribed inside of it on opposite a black paisley now those aren't paisley's their serpents snakes so for the dallas the world is a white snake and black snake serpents inscribed inside a circle and then the serpent's head is a black circle small block circling the block serpent's head small white circle and the reason for that is because yin and yang can turn into one another at the drop of a hat now yin is often represented as feminine now. That's why for example twelve rules for like life. I mentioned that it's a common proclivity for human beings to represent chaos as feminine. I didn't invent that the taoists invented that and they didn't even they didn't even invent it. It's just i it's just one of the ways that that symbolic proclivity manifests itself can't be laid at my feet. I don't wanna take credit for it. It's just just how it is and there's reasons for it and the reasons are deep and they took me a long time to understand. There's many reasons why that relationship exists and we'll go through some of them. Yen is chaos. Feminine and yang is masculine order masculine. Now you know the idea that the west is a patriarchy which is a masculine construct. That's order order. That's a reflection of the same symbolic intuition now. I don't like the idea that the west is a patriarchy. Even though it's true in part it's always important to remember that many things are true in part not just true true true in part so they the unquestioned assumption on the part of the feminists types the radical leftist types same sort of people who've been criticizing me for example for noticing that order order is symbolically masculine are perfectly happy to proclaim that the west is patriarchy which is exactly the same claim came by the way but well and then you think think to the west is a patriarch disorder and it's pathological order and that's a patriarchy now. It's masculine then. There's something that isn't that that's feminine feminine in so far as there's something that's feminine and it isn't order because we already wrapped that up and the whole patriarchal order thing so it's got to be whatever that what isn't and the opposite of order is chaos now. You might think that chaos is a bad thing and too much of it is but so is too much order order so the fact that too much of something can be a bad thing doesn't mean that the thing itself is bad. You know people poison themselves selves quite often actually by drinking too much water but that doesn't mean water is bad. It just means that you can poison yourself if you drink in too much of it so don't do that by the way because you didn't know you could do that but you can all right so the dallas believe leave that reality is made out of chaos and order and so what's chaos. I'll tell you a bunch. I'll tell you a bunch of things that chaos and order are because that'll you can only get a sense of it by by seeing it from different angles. That's that's really the right way of conceptualizing so so chaos and order order are unexplored territory and explored territory. That's a good way of thinking about it to biological way of thinking about it so animals haven't explored territory and they're very protective of that. You know animals in zoos for example. Everybody thinks while the animal zoo for most animals if you open the door to the cage they stay in the cage. That's home and you know if you have a cat. Some of you have had cows and you've taken your cat to a new house. Cats don't like that the cats pretty pretty pappy and it's house because it's going around the house and it sniffed out every nook and cranny in that house and it knows that there isn't anything there that eats cats and so it's quite happy to be in that house then you take the cap to a new house and not count isn't happy if it's a neurotic candidate go under the couch and it'll yellow for a day or two before it comes out because it thinks there's probably things there are things that heath cats and there's probably some of them in this house because that's the right default assumption right. If you're a small all in the right the right the right default assumption is that wherever you go that's new something that eats you is there and so the cat's like explored territory and when you put them in unexplored territory then they get terrified and that's just exactly exactly what human beings are like two and so part of the reason that we don't go places that we don't understand physically often most of you. Don't attend br biker bars despite your reputation if you do like more power to you know the world needs bikers to most of you. Don't go there because that's unexplored territory. That's just a good place to get into trouble and so you just don't go there by the same token you tend not to go places that are outside of your sphere of conceptual familiarity for exactly the same reason you don't like to go places that are too strange specially accidentally on purpose and it's part of an exploratory endeavor than that can be an adventure but to be dropped their no. That's not good. That's a good one of the things that i've come to think about as a psychologist is the default human condition and this. Maybe you think you're sort of a calm person. You're not you're just. You're just mostly in very safe places okay. That's a very big difference so the default human being so imagine that you were woken up at three o'clock in the morning and you're stripped naked in your taken into helicopter and your jump dropped opt into the jungle at night naked okay. That's what you're actually like. That's life. That's life and the fact that you're not like that. All the time means that you're somewhere so safe that it's just absolutely beyond comprehension and that's our so like being in this whole being in this hall is a good example of that. It's so safe here. You know despite what the protesters were claiming. It's very safe here in this so there's like three thousand people hear about and something like that and none of you know each other know somebody you know each other a little bit but fundamentally it's a whole room full of strangers but we all believe the the same thing enough so that we can all sit here and do the same thing enough so that none of us have to be in that state that we would be in if we were stripped naked and dropped into the jungle and the reason that is the case is because we all share a belief system and we're all acting out at the same time notice. Everybody's facing the front front in this theater right and nobody nobody is acting erratically and if anyone was you'd it'd be very uncomfortable about it very uncomfortable about it so every single one of us in here is emanate imitating. Everyone else and the reason we're doing that is to keep the existential terror. Were at bay really really. I'll give you an example. I'll give you an example so so this is a way that psychologists made a mistake. They've made lots of mistakes but they've learned a lot but they've made lots of mistakes so the behavioral psychologists thought that that fear was learned okay so here's here's how they figured that out mostly studying animals and animals are quite like people or at least you think psychologist study rats and they're not much people. It's like a rat is more like a person than your idea of a person is like a person and so so rats make perfectly even though they're not perfect pick their rats rats complicated thing you try building one at your kitchen. It's very hard to build a rat. It's very complicated and so that's a pretty good model for a person you have a lab rat and he's in his cage which makes them kind of a strange thing to begin with because rats don't live solitary lives in cages. They live fully engaged. Social lives in rat hierarchies so elaborates kind of a weird thing. It's like it'd be like you would be if you were in solitary confinement and there's a person and in a box. It's like well. People don't live in boxes so you can't even be person in a box really so you could live. You could exist but you're not a person in a box. You're doc pretty peculiar thing be that as it may got your rat and he's in his cage and this is his home cage. He knows it so you watch that rat and think that's a normal rap and then you want to train the route to be afraid so what you do is the behavioral idea was that rats could feel pain pain and then that they could learn what signaled pain and what they would manifest to the signal of pain would be fear or anxiety so that's how it was learned so what you do scare rat too so you can scare if you need scare one if you go to box puts red and you can electrify the bottom of the cage a little bit give them a shark so not too bad a shock but and then you turn the light on just before the shock happens and then you do that like fifty times and then the light goes on those like this because the rap learns into the light signifies shock and then the route manifests anxiety or fear to the light so it's learned to be afraid and so that's theory got your com- rat you teach tomorrow to be afraid and the real rats comrade and you teach them how to be afraid but that's actually not the way rats work. It's backwards because because if you take her out by the tail and you move them to a new cage you don't have to electrify the floor for him to be afraid as soon as you put the rat in the cage that he hasn't been in this is the rap he's frozen. He's he doesn't move and that's because has rats. No that predators can see things that move especially horizontally wildcats eiser slipped by the way because it can detect her horizontal movement better because most of the things that cats eat like rats move horizontally so rats that don't die of being eaten by cats learn that if you don't know where the hell you are and you should just do this right frozen in terror okay so then the route. That's the rat man when he's when he doesn't know anything thing when iraq doesn't anything that's the real rat. The rat hasn't learned anything and he doesn't risk moving. That's life so you don't have to learn fear you learn the opposite of fear. You learn security. You don't learn fear and you learn security by incorporating belief system and that belief system is a belief system that you share with everyone else. If your society is working well and then you you have the belief system and so is everyone else and the belief system then matches what everyone else does and so you don't have to be terrified out of your skull and so that's why everybody acts the same roughly speaking so that we don't have and that's why you even act the same as you reacted yesterday or the day before. You actually don't wanna scare for yourself too badly. I'm dead serious about this man dead serious take a naive person. Give them a little military training. Put them out on the battlefield. Let them come in contact with some of the things that lurk inside of them they go out on the battlefield and they do you some things they didn't think they could do. They get post traumatic stress disorder right because they learned that they have no idea who they are and they have no idea what they can do and they learned that they were acting like they always acted partly so they didn't terrify themselves out of their skulls else and that's the human condition and so part of the reason that we're conventional and that we adopt routines and that we mirror those routines with everyone else's because not only do we not want other people to scare us too badly. We don't want ourselves to scare us too badly and it's it's a real issue. You know people develop post from soldiers in particular but people in general in general develop post traumatic stress disorder not because something terrible happened to them. That's not enough and you we know about because lots of terrible things are going to happen to all of you and most of you aren't going to develop post traumatic stress disorder from it so this is mere tragedy that they'll do it. Malevolence does it it and sometimes it's because you encountered someone malevolent and maybe you were a little naively unprepared for it and so that just blows you into bit or you encounter it within yourself so back to the rap so he's frozen rosen. He's frozen in apprehension of what might lurk beyond. That's the chaos right now. He's in chaos that route. It's got no order order whatsoever and as a consequence gripped and frozen in place and then what does he do. We can't move because if he moves then he might get eating. It's like a little kid. You know little kids little kids when they're six months old four months old. They don't have any fear. They don't develop until they can start to move. That's when the exit that's when the anxiety circuits kicking well. What good is it being afraid if you can't you can't move anyways. It's not helpful right so but once you can move do you cannot move and so you need you need the move not move circuit to be activated activated. I don't remember if you remember that. There's a famous far side cartoon monster snorkel. This little kid undercovers on his bed. It's like a turtle. He's completely underneath there and he's like a pipe going out so they can breathe. Of course there's more answers everywhere in the dark around monster snorkel. It's like yeah that's that's what's the world of childhood and that's because the child in his bed in the dark is the same creature as the rat in new cage and the child's imagination populates the dark with monsters and you might say to your child while there's no monsters in the dark stupid right. You all knew why trade 'cause no kidding. There's plenty of monsters in the dark. Now it might be the case that right then then in there because of the walls that you put up your notice. There's walls in your house right. They keep the roof on and they keep the monsters out. That's why you have walls and then of course there's there's walls around everything there's walls around the state. That's the army to keep the monsters out and so the child those perfect well that the dark just full of monsters and you know that none of them happened to be in his room at that moment but that's called comfort for the child because they're they're air ancestoral wisdom populates their imagination with the monsters of the dark so you don't actually tell your child that there are no monsters offers in the dark what you might do get them out of bed and have them look under the bed and have them look in the closet and look and explore around and to see for themselves that everything's okay but more importantly to see for themselves that they're the sort of creature who go out in the dark and see if the monsters are there and prevail because you cannot teach your a child that life is safe because it's not but you can teach them that they're brave enough to prevail which is an entirely different thing. Yes thorough thorough monsters in the dark but you can handle them. That's way different way different and if you're a psychotherapist with a shred of credibility you never doesn't work anyways you have people who come to you with agra phobia obsessive compulsive disorder or post traumatic stress disorder telling them that they're exasperating. The danger is of zero utility. It doesn't work a bit what you do is you help them learn to confront front the things they're afraid of voluntarily or disgusted by another variation of negative emotion more relevant obsessive compulsive disorder. You don't teach them world safe. You teach them that. There are a lot tougher than they think and that's a way better lesson because the world is not safe and you are way tougher than you think doc so. That's a very very good thing that's the optimism that sort of at the bottom of all this pessimism so the rat frozen who knows what the route is imagining. Rats are intrinsically afraid of cat odor. Even arash has never ever seen a cat or smelled one if you put a fan behind the cat and blow the cap order towards the route. It'll freeze doesn't matter if it's ever seen around. We're like that was snakes by the way we're actually. We're actually biologically wired to be afraid of of snakes so that's only being established tablets. I would say in the last ten or fifteen years so that's quite interesting so we have this capacity to populate the darkness with the monsters that have been our enemies for god only knows how long millions of years not what happens in child's immagination when he or she is afraid of the dark so the rat is he's standing there frozen and nothing happens. That's a form of exploration right because if you're frozen an and terror and nothing happens you're noticing and so what you're learning is that as long as i stand here frozen and tear nothing is eating me and so that's actually actually a form of safety right because you're not being eaten at that moment so evidently the place that you are now that you don't know anything about is this sort the place where if you stand frozen in terror nothing tears you to shreds and that's actually good news so you can start to relax a little bit but not much a little bit and so that starts to relax and the first thing he does sniff and rats used their their factory system far more than human beings do most animals. Almost brains are organized around smell. Ours are organized around vision but that's not the case for most animals so the rattle start to sniff then if he can't smell anything signifies danger then he'll sniff more new start to move his head and then he starts to sort of thought who make little movements and eventually start to explore his whole cage and then when he explores this whole cage and nothing eats him and nothing scares him then you'll calm down then a behavioral psychologists can come along and teach them how to be afraid doc right but the but the thing is it's really important that the psychologists got it backwards because safety safety calmness security is not the default condition. It's learned when you become afraid. What you do is unlearn. It and you can unlearn learn all of it. If you end up agra phobic or severe severe obsessive compulsive disorder or something like that you can unlearn all of it. Trauma will do that to you sometimes a physical. They will do that big enough shock will do that. There's lots of things that will do it so okay yeah so the rat is in chaos and he builds himself a little structure of order then he's calm. The chaos is still there because never goes away okay. Now i set already rats. Don't live in isolation. They livan even complex social groups. I made some reference to this in twelve rules for life in the first rule stand up straight with your shoulders back when i talking about hierarchies and i was talking about hierarchies for a reason it wasn't to justify first of all it wasn't wasn't to prove they were inevitable. Chapters been criticized a lot by the people who've gone after me in the press. Lets say peterson is justifying the patriarchy turkey or justifying higher number one noticing something exists is not the same as justifying okay so that's important now so i noticed that hierarchies exist now. You wouldn't think there'd be too much of a problem since it's also the proclivity city of the left wing radicals that have gone after be to also notice that hierarchies exist in fact. That's all they do. They spend all their time noticing that hierarchies hierarchies exist now. They have a problem okay so they have a problem. They think that hierarchies oppress and dispossess that's true. They do one of the reasons that i wrote. The first chapter was because let's say you are a compassionate person and you're also a good person. Those are not the same thing just because you feel sorry for someone does not mean gene. You're good good is way harder than just feeling. Sorry for someone so if you're running around patting yourself on the back because you feel sorry for people you're like one one percent of the way to be in a good person. That's it so it's partly because it's it's partly because feeling sorry for people can actually be really damaging to them like if you feel too sorry for people if you treat them like they're too fragile and overprotect them. You do them a terrible terrible disservice. That's especially true if they happen to be your children so not only. Are you not a good person if you're just because you're compassionate. You might be a bad person because you're compassionate. That happens a lot. I noticed in my clinical practice for example new client i ever had came and told me i need to see a psychologist because my parents made me to independent ended. That never happened right. It never happened but the reverse happened a lot. No i can't get away from now. The stifling milieu of my family right that happened a lot and it's crushing so all right so back to hierarchies radically than hierarchies. It's an important observation that rats than hierarchies because the radical leftists for example who are upset about the fact that hierarchies exist and dispossess people and that they produce unequal distribution of resources sources. They have point but they're not very serious about what they're doing. That's the thing that's what bothers me because it actually isn't big problem that hierarchies dispossessing no press people. It's a really big problem but it's but it's a way bigger problem than the people who we're using that argument to speak for the dispossessed are willing to admit you take karl marx for example please to use an old joke. He believed that the existence of hierarchies that dispossess no press at the feet of the west end capitalism okay you can't unquestionably that's the wrong and it's wrong in an extraordinarily dangerous way because even if you're concerned about the dispossessed because you're a compassionate and you're good if you think that hierarchical structures exist because of the west and capitalism you're not going to solve the problem that you set out to solve off because hierarchies are way worse problem than the mere west and capitalism otherwise animals wouldn't live in hierarchies chimps. Live and hierarchies walls live in hierarchies. Dogs live in hierarchies rats live in hierarchies. Birds live in higher. Lobsters live in higher right okay. So why did i pick lobsters now. They've haunted me. I'm going to be haunted ended by lobsters for the rest of my life. Why did i pick lobsters well. For a couple of reasons first of all we diverged from our common ancestor with with crustaceans nations three hundred and fifty million years ago so the fact that they live in higher keys like we do means that hierarchies have been around for three three hundred fifty million years. That's older than trees. It's older than flowers. It's all hierarchies are permanent structure structure of the reality that's order. That's the yang part of the and yang it's permanent and it's so permanent and this is another reason that i used lobsters that you're nervous. System is not only adapted to hierarchies. It's adapted to hierarchies as if there's hardly anything else that's more real so so here's here's an example so your emotional stability is dependent at least in part on the efficiency with which you're so the lower parts of your brain the ancient parts of your brain produce the neuro chemical serotonin and if you produce enough serotonin then you're negative eight of emotion stay pretty nicely under control so it's like it's like you're also not too impulsive on the positive emotion front but more importantly you're not in too much emotional pain and you're not too much disgusted and terrified out of your skull and so it's actually really important to you that your serta levels stay high. It's like more important than anything else and here's the rub breath so part of the way that your brain determines how much serotonin to produce is by looking at where you fit in the hierarchy and the higher you are up in the hierarchy the more serotonin you produce and the reason in for that is that your brain assumes that if you're high up in the hierarchy you have lots of friends and you have a pretty comfortable place to live and you have lots of opportunities in front of you and you have resources to draw on if things things go to hell and so it's okay that you're not terrified out of your skull but if you're at the bottom of the hierarchy and you don't have any skills and you don't have any employment and you don't have any friends and everything's things uncertain as hell than your serotonin levels plummet and you're overcome by anxiety and terror and you'd think well and it's worse than that because if you're overcome i'm by anxiety and terror and you don't get a lot of positive emotion out of that by the way if you're overcome by anxiety and terror you produce a tremendous amount of stress hormone cortisol and then you die hi faster because cortisol makes you age more quickly and the reason that does that essentially is like if you're in an emergency which you are if you're at the bottom of the hierarchy 'cause has your like one slip from disaster. When you live there all the time then your brain assumes that you better bloody will be prepared for whatever the hell is going to happen next next and so it cranks up the cortisol levels and that puts everything that you are on the edge for emergency action and that can be exhilarating in small doses. It's like that's why people are going to roller coaster but as a way of life <hes> it makes the old it literally. That's what it does. It's it's steals resources resources from your future and burns them up in the present and so high levels of cortisol increase your probability of cancer and heart disease and diabetes and alzheimer's and obesity and like you name it you just have to suppress your immune system because who cares if you die of the flu in two weeks if there's a tiger chasing around a tree right now right well that's exactly it so so not only hierarchies exist you can ah tribute to the vagaries of some socio economic structure like the west and capitalism and they're so old that your brain in is adapted to them like there are a fundamental element of reality and so the marxist critique the best way to critique the marxist critique isn't from the right wing. You just say yeah yeah you're right. Hierarchies will press in dispossess but you're wrong about the fact that they're a secondary consequence of capitalism totalism period you're wrong and if you want to solve the problem dispossession instead of just acting like you're one of the the people who want to solve the problems of dispossession which is an entirely different thing then you might want to get a hell of a lot more serious about the problem and that's part of the reason that i wrote the first i chapter was to make the claim. It's like no this is way worse problem than you think. Secondary claim which is also an anti marxist claim because because the identity politics marxist types also have this other idea which is well. There's a hierarchy and it's a consequence of the pathological structure picture of the west and it's basically a tyranny and the way you move up. It is by exercising power because all hierarchies are based on power. It's like no. They're not. That's also wrong. A corrupt hierarchy is based on power but a functional hierarchies based on competence and you know that take the hierarchy of plumbers for example so most of us presume that doc. It's useful to have plumbers. We don't think of roving bands of plumbers oppressing us with the necessity for plumbing and we don't think that the best disclaimer is the one who's the most other plumbers to death with a lead pipe right. We assume that the best plumber is someone who stopped sewage from leaking in your house at a low cost and it was pretty decent at managing his time or her time and business affairs right. That's how you hire a plumber. You don't have plumbers. I come to your door and threaten you with what will happen if you don't hire them well. It's it's funny but it's not funny because we have this this pervasive invasive propaganda in our culture that fundamentally what we've created something like a tyranny but if you break it down into its elements the absurdity of that just manifest itself right away the tyranny of emergency room nurses. There's another one or pelly eighty of people who work in palliative care or massage therapist. There's another terrible power. Hierarchy writer elementary school teachers right even lawyers you know even lawyers are fun serie. I knew some of you are lawyers and it isn't the most tyrannical lawyers that rise is to the top. It's actually the lawyers are best generating business for their law firm lawyers who are competent as lawyers but who can also work effectively as entrepreneurial agents and who bring being in business to their law firms and feed the lawyers in the law firms who are competent but can't generate business. Those are the people that rise to the top and if they're a bit psychopathic pathak if an organization because another alternative route to the top is to be a bit of a psychopath into us power very effective route you have to keep moving around because people don't people figuring out fairly suit and so you have to keep moving around and finding new suckers because if you stay in one place in your psychopath people figure out figured out pretty soon and they put a box walks around you and they just stay the hell away from you and so the idea aide that what we live in is a tyrannical patriarch is an absolute. It's it's it's. It's something that has the vegas ghosts of truth. That's being worshiped as an unalterable axiom the hierarchies we have contend towards corruption corruption right and corruption power. That's partly why we have elections. You know if someone's in power for like fifteen years i think the reason democracy works in part is to rotate tape between right and left but even more importantly is just to throw people out most seriously serious. I'm dead serious about this like it takes a while to get a hierarchy so entrenched entrenched that it can start to become corrupt. Maybe that takes four years maybe eight years because those are the terms. We allow people right for years eight years something like that in power. It's like okay. You had your eight years. Throw you out. Throw this pack of idiots out bring in a new pack of idiots no improvement new improvement but last entrenched corruption right so back to the higher. There's no getting away from hierarchies awesome. Okay so why well a bunch of reasons. I told you that i'd been talking to sam harris about this about belief systems systems so now i want to talk relationship between belief systems and hierarchies because i actually don't think they're any different. I think they're the same thing so will here's why this is also relevant to the chaos and order issue so there's a lot of there's a lot of the world out there. There's a lot of the world and there are a lot of facts about the world. There's more of the world than you can see and there's more of the world than you could even hypothetically see so and they're more facts about the world than you could ever possibly process so things are complex beyond imagining and everyone knows and that's chaos chaos now. It's useful because the fact that things are complex beyond imagining is also the same thing as saying there is potential beyond imagining right so the downside of the complexity is just too much upside is hey. There's more out there than you know about and you can mind that you can. You know and you know what you do you do that. When you develop skills you go develop your skills and get more educated or you set yourself a new challenge right. You're out there mining potential. You're out there in the complexity mining mining potential. That's why by the way that you find gold. If you go find the drag it exactly the same idea the dragons this complex symbol of complexity that lurks in the darkness the same thing that will devour the rat but there's possibility out there so if you go out there you get the possibility so that's that's the chaotic domain because there's so much out there and there's so many things to attend to. It's very hard to figure out what to do and that's actually actually we have to do as living creatures. We can't just see things. We have to do things about them. And here's the rub you can only do one thing at a time. This is one of the very very strange things about consciousness. You know if you try to write and watch a video at the same time. You're not doing that what you're doing is you're writing a bit and then you're watching it then. You're writing a bit then. You're watching it. You only have one motor output system so it's kinda strange. Actually that's the case. Your consciousness is unbelievably. Narrow channel people have estimated its bandwidth at four bit hits right which is like a really bad modem from nineteen fifty when there weren't even modems your the bandwidth of your consciousness unbelievably unbelievably narrow and the reason for that seems to be you have to take all of everything that there is and you have to turn it into the one thing that you're doing and you do that inaction because you can only do one thing at a time but you also do it in perception because you can actually look at one thing at a time or here one thing at a time. It's a little more complicated than that but not much compared to all the things you could be seeing and hearing your hardly seeing and hearing everything anything and there's lots of experiments that have shown shown this so for example change blindness experiments for example that show that you know the way. Are you kind of have a sense that you see abroad visual landscape but you don't you're you're laser beaming it constantly by moving your is around and then you build a picture out of these little laser beam points and your eyes are just moving around like mad partly voluntarily you can control that partly involuntarily so it's pinpoints of light make up the visual image and you can tell that to you can you can actually we see this if you pay attention to it so for example. If i look at you i can see your face and your eyes but the two ladies beside you. I can tell they're women. I think cure man and i think you're a woman and can't tell out here. I know you're people but you're basically just vague blurs. I know your people because already looked there but but otherwise fake blurts you people over there. You're just all mashed together and you're basically black and white even though i can't tell that so my my central vision is very very focused and detailed but the peripheral vision is hardly there at all and the way you overcome that by looking around all the time and so so here's the complex problem that you have to solve off that you're solving every second of your life. This is what use your belief systems for is. You're using your belief system to take everything that's in the world that chaos hey oss that chaotic potential and to turn it to one thing so you have to think about that so hard you have to filter out everything except one the thing here's something interesting you might be interested in. I spent a lot of time investigating neuro psychopharmacology the way the brain responds to chemicals essentially and one of very interested in drug and alcohol abuse. I did my p._h._d. Thesis alcoholism studied lord about the way that various drugs drugs of abuse work hallucinogens. One of the things hallucinogens do is stop you from reducing everything to one thing that's why people have this sense of being flooded by say infinite potential or sometimes hell but infinite potential what what what the chemical all the chemicals that make up hallucinogens the classical who's newton's interfere with serta energetic function. That's one of the things they do and they stopped this gating from occurring and so they open as huxley pointed out they opened the doors of perception and they let you see far more of what's there than you would normally perceive at quite a cost that cost potentially being overwhelmed and also the cost of not being able to act well that's happening and so that can be a wonderful mystical experience but you could be eaten up by a lion when you're not able to organize running away so it's actually very practically useful in order to reduce things to one thing so then the question is you've got all those things to reduce to one thing. How the hell do you do it because it's really really complicated because there's all that material to to to take care of and the answer to this. This is what i really wanted to concentrate on tonight because i'm just starting to get this right as you do it both collectively and neurologically at the same time so think of. I don't know how many of you have ever started business but if you start a business and you produce a new product one of the most difficult decisions that you have to make is how much to charge for your product now obviously after charge more than it costs to make it so that's that's is where you start but you can't tell after that. It's like well. Is it a premium product. Should you charge a hundred times what it cost to make it or maybe a thousand times because maybe people only want to buy it because it's a luxury item. Should you make cheapest possible so that many many people buy it you know but you don't have to cheat because if you make too cheap then people will think it's cheap and then they won't buy it and so it's really hard to make pricing decision because what's something what is something worst and the answer is the question really is. What's this thing worth. Compared dared to everything else. That's worth something and there's a lot of other things that are worth something. There's an almost infinite number of them. That's actually why the free free market works and why it's a necessity is because the only way you can decide what everything is worth is by letting everyone vote on it so you have all that brainpower that distributed brainpower externalize computation you say well. Let's just let everybody compete about what things are worth and we'll watch where it settles because otherwise we'll have have to compute that ourselves and we can't the central soviet in its heyday had to make ten thousand pricing decisions day so they couldn't even calculate what a nail nail is worth like. What's a nail worth well if you have to nail something together. It's worth quite a lot. You know what i mean. It's like a nail can be worth a lot. So what's a nail worth well. There's no answer to that because the question is isn't what a nail is worth. The question is what is the nail worth in comparison to everything else else. That's worth something. Well good. Luck computing that you can't. It's technically not possible. That's partly why we have a stock markets like what the stock worth well. It's it's what anybody will pay for it given that they could also by any other stock and how do we compute that we let tens of millions of people vote and and even that sometimes goes completely astray because sometimes the stock market you know it has a bubble and then it crashes and it's just an indication of how difficult it is to to price everything. Can you think well why is he rambling on about pricing. It's like it's a subset of the problem of valuing and to value things to put them in a hierarchy right to order order them in terms of their worth and you have to do that in order to be able to see because you can't see anything unless you focus on one thing and not on everything else so in order to see you have to value things and in order to value things you have to put them in a hierarchy in order to put them in a hierarchy. You have to let everyone participate because because otherwise you're not smart enough to put them in a hierarchy and so that's partly what we're doing in our culture is that we're engaged in this competitive and cooperative enterprise that helps us collectively determine what everything is comparatively worth and you think well. Why is that so useful well. It simplifies simplifies things. What should you pay attention to not everything. You knew that a day trying to pay attention to everything you just don't get anything done now. If you pay attention to everything you don't get anything done so what you have to do. Is you have to prioritize and by prioritizing reducing everything to zero except the one thing you're concentrating on and that's an insanely insanely complicated act. You wouldn't have to have brain if that wasn't so hard and you have a hell of a brain. It is the most complicated thing in the cosmos by orders of magnitude. It's massively complicated. It's so full of connections that it's it's. It's a number of patterns of connections in your brain far supersedes any cosmological number. You are super complicated and the reason for that is it's really hard to take everything there is and turn it into the one thing that you should do and then well take. The question is well. How do you answer that question. What should you do and the answer is well so you party. Wanna do what others you partly wanna. Do what other people think is worthwhile. You want to have something to trade if you're doing something that no one else thinks is worthwhile first of all. You're probably going to die because the probability that it's useful if no one else thinks it's useful like zero arro- will not completely zero sometimes you're a stellar genius but hardly ever most of the time you're just diluted so right now and then you're a stellar stellar genius so that's a problem but in any case you should pay attention to what everyone else values because if you pay attention to what everyone else and you master master it then you have something to trade with everyone else and they value you and so that's a good deal and so so this is how it works and we have a hierarchical organization in our society it consists of people cooperating and competing in the attempt to produce value and you need need to produce value because we need valuable things otherwise we die and we need to produce value because we need to specify what it is that we need to do and so we have hierarchies. Do the specification and you incorporate that hierarchy. That's perceptual structure that mediates between you in the world so because what you end up doing is paying attention to things that are of value and the the the question what is a value is something that's decided upon collectively and so your perceptual systems are dependent on the integrity of the hierarchy and and and then your psychological stability is dependent on the match between the hierarchy that you've internalized and the hierarchy exists outside so if you haven't internalized analyze set of values tyrannical structure and you're acting on that and it's the same structure that everyone else's acting on then the valuable things that you pursue will be valued by other people then you can live with other people and so part of the reason that we need to support our belief systems back to that original problem is because they they actually do protect us from chaos. Your belief system isn't just your belief system. Your belief system is the system that you use to simplify the world so that you can act in such a manner that it exists in correspondence with the way everyone else is doing that simultaneously at least within your cultural sphere so part of the reason you're also happy about supporting your own cultural value system is because you have a value system and so does your culture and they match and so if you're cultural values system it gets flipped upside down then your perceptual value system no longer works then you can't function then the chaos of the world comes in and overwhelms you then you're terrified. Aww your skull and you die and so it's not surprising that people value their belief systems so so that's that's all extraordinarily useful to know as far as i'm concerned and so an in the pro- the problem is there's a couple of problems here one problem. We're not going to be able to address to any great degree. Tonight is the fact that despite the fact that you have to have the hierarchy because you have to have the value system because it has to specify so that you can act and so that you can act with other people. There's no getting away from that. It's absolutely necessary. Hierarchies dispossess people because what happens i wrote about this and twelve rules for life to is that once you set up a hierarchy like the number of good plumbers is far outweighed by the number of terrible plumbers. The number of good lawyers is far outweighed by the number of terrible lawyers and it's true in every single domain and its viciously troop its governed by law prices law prices. Law is a terrible law but it looks like law governs. The size of cities governs the size of stars that governs the height of trees in the in the rainforest. It's another one of these laws that isn't specifically it isn't specific perfect human endeavor that which has gets more bigger stars secrete more mass because they have more gravitational poll so they just get bigger and bigger so and bigger cities are more attractive because they produce more opportunity so they get bigger and bigger and so tyler trees get more light so they get taller and taller doc skillful people get more and more opportunities to get more and more skillful. That's what happens rich people because because they have money have more and more opportunities to make more money so they make more money you know the one percent you hear about that all the time. You're all in the one percent by the way by world standards and you're in the one percent by historical standards. You're probably in the one thousand of one percent so that's a good thing to know. If you're feeling poor you're not you're not that poor man so so you know you hear a lot about the one percent but what you don't hear is that it's an iron law of hierarchy and it doesn't matter what the hierarchy is it produces exactly that distribution hardly anyone ends up with everything. Twelve richest people in the world have as much money as the bottom two and a half billion. Thank god that's terrible. It's terrible cataclysmic consequences of the capitalist system. It's no it's not and one of the things that's really interesting about. Capitalism in the asked is that every system produces unbelievable inequality and a lot of misery and grief and the west has figured out how to produce inequality and some wealth right so the inequality you. That's a